Re: DT16 Timeline Thread - John finished recording guitar parts

[Mosh]

I am very much expecting the album to sound like View part two. I felt that of all the Mangini albums, it felt the most like "classic DT" since ADTOE.I think they go in that direction a little more, a couple heavy 8 string songs, a big proggy epic, songs like The Alien that mix big riffs with instrumental noodling (instrumentally I thought The Alien was vaguely reminiscent of LTE).

View part two would be Distance Over Time part three. They already did two albums in a row packed with heavy songs, most of them relatively short for their standards, and the only exception to being all heavy were a ballad, a 20 minute epic, and a couple of Rush inspired song. Whatever they'll do, I hope in the Dramatic approach, anything goes: short songs, long songs, piano ballad, acoustic ballad.... View had only 7 songs - one epic, one lighthearted, and five heavy songs. I'm not saying all the songs sound the same, far from it, but there's not enough variety, especially coming from another album full of shorter heavy songs (at least that one had a ballad).

I guess I don't hear the DoT comparisons as much as everyone else. I mean, I agree that there is a straight line from DoT to View, definitely the most cohesive pair of albums during the Mangini era, but I thought View did a lot to regain the band's proggy edge when DoT leaned a little too hard into the Metal side on songs like Paralyzed and Room 137. Songs like Transcending Time, A View From the Top of the World, and The Alien felt like Dream Theater's most proggy expeditions since ADTOE. I could easily hear similar material being written with Portnoy. Since the core of the writing is JP and JR, I don't think the drummer matters quite as much, but Portnoy will push for a particular direction more than Mangini ever did or was able to, and I think it's logical that he is going to be more interested in the prog side and making a "classic" DT album.

[PMSummer]

I am very much expecting the album to sound like View part two. I felt that of all the Mangini albums, it felt the most like "classic DT" since ADTOE.I think they go in that direction a little more, a couple heavy 8 string songs, a big proggy epic, songs like The Alien that mix big riffs with instrumental noodling (instrumentally I thought The Alien was vaguely reminiscent of LTE).

it most likely won't sound like View 2 for two reasons: One is that they never make the same album twice (and to me that's a good thing and nor would I want DT to do that) and the other is that MM is gone and so much of why View was as great as it is (it's one of my personal eternal three) was due to him. (his approach to music, technique, precision, all that)

Oh, I'm definitely curious about your "eternal three" after reading your posts here! What are the other two albums that complete your personal trifecta alongside View?

[Max Kuehnau]

View, DT12 and Dramatic Turn. Peak level DT in any aspect. (possibly barring some of James' vocal parts during the course of View, not as technical as those on DT12 and Dramatic Turn (and The Astonishing for that matter), but that doesn't bother me too much in that case.)

[pg1067]

I am very much expecting the album to sound like View part two. I felt that of all the Mangini albums, it felt the most like "classic DT" since ADTOE.I think they go in that direction a little more, a couple heavy 8 string songs, a big proggy epic, songs like The Alien that mix big riffs with instrumental noodling (instrumentally I thought The Alien was vaguely reminiscent of LTE).

it most likely won't sound like View 2 for two reasons: One is that they never make the same album twice (and to me that's a good thing and nor would I want DT to do that) and the other is that MM is gone and so much of why View was as great as it is (it's one of my personal eternal three) was due to him. (his approach to music, technique, precision, all that)

I guess it depends on what of it you see it as great.  For instance, he contributed no song structure, arrangement, chord progressions, lyrics, etc.

Agree.  I also thought View was pretty much "the same album" as DOT.

from a drumming perspective it very much was not in many ways, I can tell you that, because I've analysed it and it was fun to do. (examples being polyrhythms with three and four factors, very difficult blasts, some over said polys and an insanely difficult retardation that ends View, also over polys. Their hardest album to play.)  Also some melodic devices weren't used on D/T. (Like the secondary dominant bit during the chorus of Sleeping Giant that gets reprised in its parallel minor when it repeats, brilliant. That wasn't on D/T, yes I have half a degree in music, I can discern some stuff, even if I'm not a pianist) But they were both very good albums, one was fairly safe (D/T) and the other was the very antithesis of that

That's a pretty extreme level of fine-tooth comb work to explain that two albums aren't "the same."  Of course there will be different elements to any two albums, and obviously, others may see them as not similar, but "the same album" is pretty a pretty broad-brush characterization.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i agree with Max Kahuna when he said that View is one of the better DT albums. Disagree about the other two, and I also don't think MM is polyamorous, nor what it has to do with the music ::

[Max Kuehnau]

No mate , a *polyrhythm* has nothing to do with how many men or women people invite into their beds (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyrhythm) This isn't Home we're talking about here (and it doesn't feature any of them btw, none of MP era pieces do)

[hefdaddy42]

i agree with Max Kahuna when he said that View is one of the better DT albums. Disagree about the other two, and I also don't think MM is polyamorous, nor what it has to do with the music ::

Polyrhythmic, not polyamorous

But whatever

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

oooh ok i just saw poly and assumed you meant polyamorous since that is how people usually use that word LOL. i don't know what a polyrhythm is but i guess i can go look it up

[Max Kuehnau]

oooh ok i just saw poly and assumed you meant polyamorous since that is how people usually use that word LOL. i don't know what a polyrhythm is but i guess i can go look it up

yeah it's just that many musicians (myself included) use polys to abbreviate the term, so
Nice template you gave me for a bit of fun though, thanks very much.

[hefdaddy42]

oooh ok i just saw poly and assumed you meant polyamorous since that is how people usually use that word LOL. i don't know what a polyrhythm is but i guess i can go look it up

That is not how MOST people usually use that word because most people don't use it AS a word unless the correct context has been established.  Poly means "many" so just saying "poly" doesn't mean anything unless the audience knows "many what?"

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

what's wrong with MP's polys?

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

oooh ok i just saw poly and assumed you meant polyamorous since that is how people usually use that word LOL. i don't know what a polyrhythm is but i guess i can go look it up

That is not how MOST people usually use that word because most people don't use it AS a word unless the correct context has been established.  Poly means "many" so just saying "poly" doesn't mean anything unless the audience knows "many what?"

totally. i didn't know why many what which is why i got confused

[hefdaddy42]

Nothing's wrong when he does them.  He just doesn't use them as a main part of his drum part compositions like Mangini does, or to the extent that Mangini does.

[Max Kuehnau]

Nothing's wrong when he does them.  He just doesn't use them as a main part of his drum part compositions like Mangini does, or to the extent that Mangini does.

yeah I didn't mean to suggest otherwise (or say it's a bad thing), sorry

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i myself prefer MP's drummer to MM's (though i am not a drum man) so if MP is less poly than MM maybe that's why i prefer him

[Max Kuehnau]

Yeah I can see that because polyrhythms can be quite difficult to grasp (especially the more advanced they become), and again, I don't mean to say that's a bad thing. I love what MM brought to DT in that respect and it worked (and because I use them quite a bit for various reasons, enjoy playing them too)

[pg1067]

i agree with Max Kahuna when he said that View is one of the better DT albums. Disagree about the other two, and I also don't think MM is polyamorous, nor what it has to do with the music ::

Polyrhythmic, not polyamorous

But whatever

LOL!

The one that threw me was "an insanely difficult retardation that ends View."  I assume the intended word was ritardando.  A retardation is something quite different.

[Max Kuehnau]

Oh yes of course. Ritardando. And yes it's involved.

[nobloodyname]

Hmm. I think HoJo was having a sneaky laugh and a couple of people bit

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

if i make people happy then my job is done

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

…and I also don't think MM is polyamorous, nor what it has to do with the music ::

Polyrhythmic, not polyamorous

But whatever

This is honestly one of the greatest online exchanges I’ve ever read. Thank you both for this brilliant moment. I’ll never forget it.

[HOF]

On FB, Mike just posted a weird video of the band members faces morphing from one to another all Michael Jackson “Black or White” style, with the caption:

“Hard to believe that in just a few days, these 5 gentlemen will reunite to begin work on our first album together in almost 15 years!”

https://www.facebook.com/100044540401846/posts/935087047985967/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

[DTwwbwMP]

Pretty cool^

Looking forward to the new album, but I REALLY HOPE we get a summer reunion tour first!

[Wim Kruithof]

I love it. So freakin' hard to wait for so many months till I can spin the vinyl. Can't remember longing for anything harder in life, in many years... than this next album.

[emtee]

Spun ACoS last night. This song contains everything I love about DT. It's full of emotion. The playing is high level without having to showcase musical gymnastics. Melody abounds. If there is going to be any inspiration corner for the new album, I hope this song is part of it.

[MirrorMask]

I wonder if MP wrote about "five guys" just to underline the unity of the band and to not exclude James, 'cause in these circumstances you just don't write "four guys while James waits in Canada for the vocal lines", or if this actually means that James will be there with them in the studio as well.

[Zydar]

Spun ACoS last night. This song contains everything I love about DT. It's full of emotion. The playing is high level without having to showcase musical gymnastics. Melody abounds. If there is going to be any inspiration corner for the new album, I hope this song is part of it.

Absolutely, phenomenal song.

And if there's going to be an inspiration corner, just let it be DT itself and not any outside influences/inspirations. Just pure DT, whatever that entails.

[Max Kuehnau]

If I'm not mistaken, they've done away with the inspiration corner (where there were certain albums being picked to influence the DT album in the making) after either the 6D sessions or the TOT sessions. Of course, Scotty probably will correct me and I'll gladly take it. If that's still true, it would be unlikely for them to use that approach for DT16, but what would I know.

[DTA]

I wonder if MP wrote about "five guys" just to underline the unity of the band and to not exclude James, 'cause in these circumstances you just don't write "four guys while James waits in Canada for the vocal lines", or if this actually means that James will be there with them in the studio as well.

Hasn’t James been regularly in the studio with the guys for at least some period of time for the last few albums? I hope he’s present once they have some music written, but hanging around while the instrumentalists jam for weeks and figure out notes/rhythms and get comfortable with each other again would probably be a very tedious few weeks with little to do.

[Progmaniac1988]

Man I am damn excited! I do hope that the “5 of us” comment includes James. Just as excited I am for Portnoy to be back, I’m also hoping this all sparks some inspiration into James. DT really needs an album with a stand out vocal performance abt now. I have all the faith that James can still bring it (regardless of his troubles on the latest couple tours) and I’m so excited for the magic of this line up.

[nobloodyname]

I'd be amazed if James isn't at least there for the start of sessions.

Great sign MP is posting stuff like that. I reckon it'll translate into some nice updates once more.

[Wim Kruithof]

DT really needs an album with a stand out vocal performance abt now.

On all 15 previous studioalbums (one might doubt the debute) the vocalist delivered a brilliant performance.

[Setlist Scotty]

If I'm not mistaken, they've done away with the inspiration corner (where there were certain albums being picked to influence the DT album in the making) after either the 6D sessions or the TOT sessions. Of course, Scotty probably will correct me and I'll gladly take it. If that's still true, it would be unlikely for them to use that approach for DT16, but what would I know.

The first album without inspiration corner was BCaSL. I don't know if they had one during the sessions for the MM-era albums, but I tend to believe they did not. So I would expect that album #16 will also be done without an inspiration corner.
 
 

I wonder if MP wrote about "five guys" just to underline the unity of the band and to not exclude James, 'cause in these circumstances you just don't write "four guys while James waits in Canada for the vocal lines", or if this actually means that James will be there with them in the studio as well.

Hasn’t James been regularly in the studio with the guys for at least some period of time for the last few albums? I hope he’s present once they have some music written, but hanging around while the instrumentalists jam for weeks and figure out notes/rhythms and get comfortable with each other again would probably be a very tedious few weeks with little to do.

I believe he has - at least for the last two albums.

Given that it's the first album since MP's return, I'd imagine he'll also be there from the beginning for this one. Biggest question is whether he'll do it in person or if he might prefer to do it via Zoom as he did for AVFtTotW since it seemed to work out so well for him. I can see it going either way.

[gzarruk]

If I'm not mistaken, they've done away with the inspiration corner (where there were certain albums being picked to influence the DT album in the making) after either the 6D sessions or the TOT sessions. Of course, Scotty probably will correct me and I'll gladly take it. If that's still true, it would be unlikely for them to use that approach for DT16, but what would I know.

The first album without inspiration corner was BCaSL. I don't know if they had one during the sessions for the MM-era albums, but I tend to believe they did not. So I would expect that album #16 will also be done without an inspiration corner.

For ADTOE they had IAW

[MirrorMask]

That was a joke waiting to happen and I was this close to write it myself