Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - S2 Finale Out Now! Spoilers Within!

[The Letter M]

We didn't learn much more about Sylvie this season.

Well considering her arc was mostly completed in season one, there wasn't much more TO learn. We knew she just wanted to retire to a branch timeline and experience life in a way that she couldn't when she was on the run from apocalypse to apocalypse nearly all of her life, and given how long Asgardians live, that could've been centuries. She just wanted to enjoy life and its simple pleasures, from fast food to vinyl, and her purpose this season was to get Loki to realize what it was that he really wanted.

We didn't learn anything about B-52 or whatever.

Hunter B-15 was a doctor, presumably for children, with a lot of empathy and compassion, which probably influenced her judge of character and conviction to save the branch timelines from being wiped out once they learned they didn't need to prune them all. Learning who she was on the sacred timeline really put a good spin on how she's been viewed since Season 1 and rewatching that with this knowledge could spotlight some of her character moments.

We didn't learn much about Renslayer that wasn't heavily implied last season.

I'll agree, her arc this season felt a bit underbaked, though the revelations of her involvement with He Who Remains put her in a peculiar spot, and considering we didn't see Alioth consume her, it's safe to say she's still alive and probably has plans in the future, either to get revenge against Sylvie, the TVA, or HWR. She was really just a pawn for HWR and Miss Minutes this season, though the revelation of her story with Mobius really explains a lot about her ruthlessness, especially concerning Sylvie.

We learned nothing about Victor Timely.

We learned he was a no-name candlestick maker in the late 1800s, who might have influenced OB to write the TVA handbook. He was a brilliant con artist, which isn't too dissimilar from how Kang might operate, but he definitely shows that Kang Variants have a lot more variety than just being a green-and-purple-clad villain. I guess if folks found him annoying, they weren't going to glean anything from his character, but for those of us who enjoyed him, there was a bit to learn.

We learned little about Mobius other than what his prime timeline guy was like.

I feel like Sylvie, Mobius' arc was mostly complete in s1, but seeing his friendship grow with Loki was a key aspect of this season. There's a reason he's with Sylvie when they see Loki approach the gangway. Those are his closest friends and they motivated Loki to make his final decisions at the end of the season. The repetition of the "For you. For all of us" line from the end of the first Thor film, but this time to Mobius and Sylvie, really hits differently now, and was a brilliant inclusion in those final moments, along with Mobius' line of "Most purpose is more 'burden' than 'glory'.", which is just so beautiful, and a great twist on Loki's typical "I am burdened with glorious purpose." line he's said many times.

We also learned nothing about OB.

He was a failing sci-fi author and physics professor, which explains his aloofness and genius intellect, and seeing how his lab on the sacred timeline clearly inspired his TVA lab, it feels like when he joined the TVA, they either didn't erase his memories or his memories remained in a hazy way that kept them from being completely erased. Beyond that, I don't think we needed to learn much about him, as his presence was to create tension in the plot ("We're all gonna die!"), provide some curious puzzle pieces (learning Timely inspired him to write the handbook, which inspired Timely, etc), and ultimately help guide Loki through his time-slipping journey. Like the others, he survived and so there's a chance we may see him again, but honestly, I don't see a reason to need to learn MORE about him - just let him be a quirky tinkerer. Not every character needs a super in-depth backstory full of intrigue and drama.

I loved all of the actors, Ke Huy Quan was fantastic but ultimately just a means of exposition. Loki's arc from Thor 1 to this (not counting his other arc) is great, but this season just felt like stuff happening and I really didn't connect with it. I didn't hate it, I just kind of felt nothing. Glad others enjoyed it though.

Looking at Loki's arc from 2011's Thor up to now, it's amazing seeing what he became, both on the sacred timeline ("You wlll never be a god"), and at the TVA ("I know what kind of god I need to be."). I'd say his story is probably one of my favorites in all of the MCU now, next to Stark and Rogers, who, of course, have had definitive endings in their own right. If we never see Hiddleston's Loki ever again, I'd be satisfied, but I wouldn't turn down another glorious chance to see him on screen as long as his purpose for being there wasn't a burden.

-Marc.

[gmillerdrake]

Valiant effort Marc to defend the season and the writing and the way they chose to tell the story,  but it’s just not there. The end result….being the sacrifice and where Loki ended up was beautiful. Just wish they had accompanied that with a season of concise direction and sensible writing. They didn’t.

[Orbert]

I think Marc's point -- which I agree with -- is that there was character development, backstory, and motivation for all of these characters.  All of that, along with everything else this season, went by so quickly that maybe it didn't seem important and wasn't really emphasized, but it was there.  There was a lot of stuff crammed into every episode and the basic strategy seemed to be to keep things moving so fast that the average viewer doesn't have time to think about it.  But it's actually there if you want to look for it.

I also agree with the basic stance that a lot of "big moments" didn't feel well-earned, mostly because of the breakneck pace with which things were presented.  Not a lot of time was given to absorb everything, and the result for me was that a lot of stuff seemed to happen but I couldn't tell you what half of it was, or why.  But I'm not gonna bag on the folks who liked it and/or found it to be just fine.  I was still pretty entertained throughout the whole series.

[HOF]

I think Marc's point -- which I agree with -- is that there was character development, backstory, and motivation for all of these characters.  All of that, along with everything else this season, went by so quickly that maybe it didn't seem important and wasn't really emphasized, but it was there.  There was a lot of stuff crammed into every episode and the basic strategy seemed to be to keep things moving so fast that the average viewer doesn't have time to think about it.  But it's actually there if you want to look for it.

I also agree with the basic stance that a lot of "big moments" didn't feel well-earned, mostly because of the breakneck pace with which things were presented.  Not a lot of time was given to absorb everything, and the result for me was that a lot of stuff seemed to happen but I couldn't tell you what half of it was, or why.  But I'm not gonna bag on the folks who liked it and/or found it to be just fine.  I was still pretty entertained throughout the whole series.

Yeah, I agree with this pretty much. I enjoyed the show, though I agree with a lot of the criticisms. I was entertained at least.

[gmillerdrake]

I think Marc's point -- which I agree with -- is that there was character development, backstory, and motivation for all of these characters. 

I'm going small font because I'm glad some of you guys enjoyed it....but...I just can't get on board with this season being a success.....outside of the final sequence with Loki taking his spot on that throne.

I think that there was a rudimentary attempt at that for these characters....but when you really look at what those characters did/said etc etc this season....there wasn't ANY significant development in any of these characters. In fact, the characters of Sylvie and Mobius were damaged more than developed in this season as far as what we'd grown to like of them in S1. They were shells of the interesting characters from S1 and were used as props more than parts of the story. And that's my 'complaint' about the season. It was a disjointed mess with no real compelling substance for 99% of the characters involved.

Loki was the only one that made strides and ultimately ended up in a really cool closing sequence that again....was pretty beautiful. But even his arc this season was disjointed and slogged on.

Renslayer could have not made an appearance at all this season and it wouldn't have affected the outcome one bit. Zero. Seriously, why even have shown her at all this season? She did nothing but eat some screen time in an episode.

We've discussed Victor Timely.....I couldn't take that character serious at all given how poorly it was acted. There was potential there for something cool but it was a huge swing and miss.

[bosk1]

I'll give you that the plot was at times disjointed, and that for you, it didn't work.

But the character stuff, that's a HARD disagree.  The stuff you were saying isn't present absolutely was.  Marc nailed it.  Not everything you want was needed to tell this story.  You may have subjectively wanted things to turn out differently, but that isn't the point.  I'll use the first Avengers film as a good analogy.  By that time in the MCU, Tony and Cap had been pretty developed.  To a lesser degree, so was Thor.  And to a lesser degree than that, so was Hulk.  Despite making appearances in several movies, Natasha and Clint were really underdeveloped as fully fleshed out characters.  Hence a LOT of people saying that by the time of Age of Ultron, despite it's flaws, Natasha and Clint got a lot more focus and fleshing out (and Natasha had gotten a lot in Winter Soldier prior to that also, which helped).  But they weren't developed well by the end of Avengers.  And here's where I'm going--they didn't need to be.  Even though they were not fully fleshed out by then, they were as fleshed out as they needed to be.  Same with some other key non-Avengers characters (Fury, Coulson, Hill, for example).  Their development to that point served the story to that point.  Same with all the characters you mention, Gary.  As Marc pointed out, there was FAR from "zero" development this season for any of the ones you mention.  What they did well was give enough for those of us that were open to emotionally invest in those characters and care about what happened to them (something lacking in a lot of recent MCU content).  You may not have invested and cared.  But a lot of us did.  And there was more than enough meat on the bone for us to do so.  Could there have been more?  Sure.  But you can say that about just about any project.  We got what we got, and it worked, and worked well for a lot of us.  To say there is "zero" is just inaccurate and just smacks of biased viewing.  And that's also fine.  If you don't like it because it didn't meet your subjective criteria, that's cool too.  I'm that way with a lot of things that plenty of other people love, so I get it.

[gmillerdrake]

I'll give you that the plot was at times disjointed, and that for you, it didn't work.

But the character stuff, that's a HARD disagree.  The stuff you were saying isn't present absolutely was.  Marc nailed it.  Not everything you want was needed to tell this story.  You may have subjectively wanted things to turn out differently, but that isn't the point.  I'll use the first Avengers film as a good analogy.  By that time in the MCU, Tony and Cap had been pretty developed.  To a lesser degree, so was Thor.  And to a lesser degree than that, so was Hulk.  Despite making appearances in several movies, Natasha and Clint were really underdeveloped as fully fleshed out characters.  Hence a LOT of people saying that by the time of Age of Ultron, despite it's flaws, Natasha and Clint got a lot more focus and fleshing out (and Natasha had gotten a lot in Winter Soldier prior to that also, which helped).  But they weren't developed well by the end of Avengers.  And here's where I'm going--they didn't need to be.  Even though they were not fully fleshed out by then, they were as fleshed out as they needed to be.  Same with some other key non-Avengers characters (Fury, Coulson, Hill, for example).  Their development to that point served the story to that point.  Same with all the characters you mention, Gary.  As Marc pointed out, there was FAR from "zero" development this season for any of the ones you mention.  What they did well was give enough for those of us that were open to emotionally invest in those characters and care about what happened to them (something lacking in a lot of recent MCU content).  You may not have invested and cared.  But a lot of us did.  And there was more than enough meat on the bone for us to do so.  Could there have been more?  Sure.  But you can say that about just about any project.  We got what we got, and it worked, and worked well for a lot of us.  To say there is "zero" is just inaccurate and just smacks of biased viewing.  And that's also fine.  If you don't like it because it didn't meet your subjective criteria, that's cool too.  I'm that way with a lot of things that plenty of other people love, so I get it.

And I hope that the bolded and the point you made is clear to folks like you and Marc and others who liked it.......this is just how 'I' feel. I'm certainly FAR from a Marvel aficionado, and have admitted I'm an average fan at best. I got into it because my kids loved the movies so I just kind of found my way into the mix of the whole First Phase stuff. So, a lot of what I'm saying is really from the perspective of a casual fan who is just detailing how they've 'lost' me in the follow up phases. I felt invested in the stories/movies of that whole series of Avengers movies but haven't felt as connected to these subsequent stories/characters as I did with the original batch.

I don't think the writing is as good, the overall arch of the story they're trying to tell is more bland and not as compelling.....the actors are hit and miss as far as performances.....it's simply just not as good in my eyes. I loved the final scene of Loki because I do think that was a beautiful way to 'end' his arc.....but I've expressed how I felt about how they got there. Just didn't do it for me.
....
I want to like all of these efforts and the continuing story......and my criticisms of this show and other shows may just be a microcosm of my overall growing cynicism for EVERYTHING these days....not just entertainment but the world in general....and as a side note on that point it's something I'm trying to improve and address in my character because it's affecting more than TV show reviews at this point.

[hefdaddy42]

FINALLY got to watch the final 3 episodes.

Wow, what an ending.  I thought that was a really interesting final arc for Loki himself.  I can also see how it still leads into a Kang War (however that develops), but could also see how they could go an entirely different route if they want.  I liked it a lot.

I will definitely come down on the side of those who enjoyed it.  Good stuff.

[Adami]

A well written but too long post to quote without making thread hard to read.

I think I didn't express myself properly. Because based on what I wrote, you're mostly right.

However, when I said we didn't learn much about the characters (other than Loki) I didn't mean factual things, I meant personality, motivation, wants/needs/drives, etc. Also the facts we learned were mostly about the prime timeline version of these people, who are, to me, different characters. It's like asking me to describe Robert Pattinson's Batman and me giving you a ton of info about Adam West. The people we learned a little about looked the same and were played by the same actors, but they're different people. So I don't know much new about B-15 from season 2, even if I learned that a variant of hers was a doctor. So on and so on.

So again, I don't really value learning facts about someone like their job or occupation, and on top of that, that was about other characters.

And to what Bosk said, yes it's all subjective. This show meets your subjective criteria and didn't meet mine. It's all good. A lot of Marvel hasn't met my subjective criteria for some time now because I care deeply, and most importantly, about character more than plot. I just am finding harder and harder to connect with "We gotta get the thing to stop the thing from happening but the bad guy also wants the thing for evil reasons." And it playing in to later things also doesn't matter much to me. All subjective. For sure.

[ProfessorPeart]

The Making of episode has dropped on Disney+. Another near tear-inducing moment from Ke on how he got the role and what it meant to him. I just love that guy.

[lonestar]

The Making of episode has dropped on Disney+. Another near tear-inducing moment from Ke on how he got the role and what it meant to him. I just love that guy.

Hands down the most humble and gracious human on Earth. 

[Lonk]

Need to watch that.

Also, if the stuff that came out of the first week of Jonathan Majors trial is true, he might be done.

[lonestar]

You talking about the text messages?

[Lonk]

That and the supposed video of him shoving his ex into the taxi.

Of course we have to hear his testimony now, but it's not looking very good.

[MinistroRaven]

Also, if the stuff that came out of the first week of Jonathan Majors trial is true, he might be done.

He Who Remains... behind bars

[MinistroRaven]

Watch this video FIRST:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv7q5C9HGd8

Then watch this one:

https://x.com/LonoBristol/status/1735040889674662369?s=20

 

[hefdaddy42]

lol

[jammindude]

Ummmmm….this really really changes things.  I think this opens up the conversation that men can be victims too. And I can tell you from experience…when you try to tell people that you were defending yourself against someone who was behaving like a wild animal…no one believes you.

I believe Christopher Titus has a skit about this. He was the one that went to jail, but the cops wouldn’t let him stay there just because he was afraid of his 5’2” 100lb girlfriend.

This video makes it look like Jonathan is the one being attacked and trying to get away.  I mean, if she caught him cheating like it says then ya she had a right to be angry. But if she started freaking out in the car and he had to slap her just to get away, that changes things.

[MinistroRaven]

Ummmmm….this really really changes things.  I think this opens up the conversation that men can be victims too. And I can tell you from experience…when you try to tell people that you were defending yourself against someone who was behaving like a wild animal…no one believes you.

I believe Christopher Titus has a skit about this. He was the one that went to jail, but the cops wouldn’t let him stay there just because he was afraid of his 5’2” 100lb girlfriend.

This video makes it look like Jonathan is the one being attacked and trying to get away.  I mean, if she caught him cheating like it says then ya she had a right to be angry. But if she started freaking out in the car and he had to slap her just to get away, that changes things.

That's the testimony of the driver, that she was freaking out and Majors was just trying to put her away

[Lonk]

Ummmmm….this really really changes things.  I think this opens up the conversation that men can be victims too. And I can tell you from experience…when you try to tell people that you were defending yourself against someone who was behaving like a wild animal…no one believes you.

I believe Christopher Titus has a skit about this. He was the one that went to jail, but the cops wouldn’t let him stay there just because he was afraid of his 5’2” 100lb girlfriend.

This video makes it look like Jonathan is the one being attacked and trying to get away.  I mean, if she caught him cheating like it says then ya she had a right to be angry. But if she started freaking out in the car and he had to slap her just to get away, that changes things.

Honestly, I found the defense to be weak. Majors didn't even get on the stand. Parker and her attorneys had multiple witness, text messages and pictures. Though, I will admit that the little bit of evidence the Major's attorney had was pretty damn good, I'm not sure it will be enough to clear him of everything.

I think the verdict will be today. So we will see.

[Lonk]

And Majors was found guilty.

Now we wait and see what Marvel will do. My guess is they drop Majors and the Kang story (given the ending of Loki makes it easy to move away from Kang), but I would prefer they recast the character.

[jingle.boy]

And Majors was found guilty.

Now we wait and see what Marvel will do. My guess is they drop Majors and the Kang story (given the ending of Loki makes it easy to move away from Kang), but I would prefer they recast the character.

Dayum... from bad to worse for Disney!

[jammindude]

I have to be missing something. Because this really sounds like he got shafted.  I figured he had more going in his favor than Johnny Depp, and he walked away smelling like a rose.

So what am I missing?

[MinistroRaven]

His punishment should be doing DCU movies

[hefdaddy42]

His punishment should be doing DCU movies

Oof

[Lonk]

I have to be missing something. Because this really sounds like he got shafted.  I figured he had more going in his favor than Johnny Depp, and he walked away smelling like a rose.

So what am I missing?

I don't know all the evidence the jury got, but I think the fact that the video shows him picking up his ex and trying to force her back in the car is counting as assault/harassment. Off the 4 charges, he was only found guilty of 2 though

[bosk1]

Now we wait and see what Marvel will do. My guess is they drop Majors and the Kang story (given the ending of Loki makes it easy to move away from Kang), but I would prefer they recast the character.

Yeah, they will probably drop Majors.  But I don't know why you think they would drop the Kang story.  That wouldn't make any sense after they have invested so much time into it.  I haven't seen anything from Marvel indicating that they have any intention of doing so.

[jammindude]

I still put even odds on them just pretending it never happened. Scrub the press…no comment…lather, rinse, repeat until the next Hollywood scandal comes along and the ADD public forgets it ever happened.

[The Letter M]

https://deadline.com/2023/12/jonathan-majors-marvel-fired-guilty-verdict-1235671790/amp/

Whelp...

-Marc.

[The Letter M]

Now we wait and see what Marvel will do. My guess is they drop Majors and the Kang story (given the ending of Loki makes it easy to move away from Kang), but I would prefer they recast the character.

Yeah, they will probably drop Majors.  But I don't know why you think they would drop the Kang story.  That wouldn't make any sense after they have invested so much time into it.  I haven't seen anything from Marvel indicating that they have any intention of doing so.

My only concerns that they might pivot from Kang for Avengers 5 is the change in both writer and director for the film. Granted, that might not mean anything with regards to Kang, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did change things up to pivot away from focusing on Kang.

-Marc.

[faizoff]

Ummmmm….this really really changes things.  I think this opens up the conversation that men can be victims too. And I can tell you from experience…when you try to tell people that you were defending yourself against someone who was behaving like a wild animal…no one believes you.

I believe Christopher Titus has a skit about this. He was the one that went to jail, but the cops wouldn’t let him stay there just because he was afraid of his 5’2” 100lb girlfriend.

This video makes it look like Jonathan is the one being attacked and trying to get away.  I mean, if she caught him cheating like it says then ya she had a right to be angry. But if she started freaking out in the car and he had to slap her just to get away, that changes things.

Honestly, I found the defense to be weak. Majors didn't even get on the stand. Parker and her attorneys had multiple witness, text messages and pictures. Though, I will admit that the little bit of evidence the Major's attorney had was pretty damn good, I'm not sure it will be enough to clear him of everything.

I think the verdict will be today. So we will see.

Isn't that like the usual case? like don't most defendants not take the stand during their trial? I think I read that it's not a big deal to not take the stand.

[jammindude]

https://deadline.com/2023/12/jonathan-majors-marvel-fired-guilty-verdict-1235671790/amp/

Whelp...

-Marc.

Shows how much I know.

This is why guys don’t come forward when they are being abused. They will always believe the woman.

[Lonk]

Now we wait and see what Marvel will do. My guess is they drop Majors and the Kang story (given the ending of Loki makes it easy to move away from Kang), but I would prefer they recast the character.

Yeah, they will probably drop Majors.  But I don't know why you think they would drop the Kang story.  That wouldn't make any sense after they have invested so much time into it.  I haven't seen anything from Marvel indicating that they have any intention of doing so.

Just me making assumptions based on stuff I read and heard. I hope I'm wrong, since I want to see the full Kang story played out.

And yeah, the marvel news was expected

[gmillerdrake]

Majors didn't even get on the stand.

His defense lawyers have probably seen his work and realize how horrible he'd come across.....because he'd undoubtedly try to portray some sort of emotion or convey something and it'd seem disingenuous.

[soupytwist]

Just move away from Kang completely.  He's not been a compelling villain and getting punched out by Ant-Man hardly screams end level boss threat.
Also they've not as of yet really done much showing any attempt to rebuilt a new avengers team, which they probably need to start focusing on.