Author Topic: Marillion  (Read 180443 times)

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Offline nick_z

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1785 on: April 26, 2023, 03:18:56 PM »
I'm really late to the Marillion party...  It wasn't until last year that I listened to "Misplaced Childhood" and wondered where it has been my whole life.  From there naturally I also got into "Clutching at Straws". 

Finally today randomly put on a post-Fish album, "Seasons End".  Holy crap.  Amazing album.  I'm pretty sure "King of Sunset Town" is my current temporary favorite song lol.  Looking forward to diving into more of the catalog.  Maybe I just needed to find an album I like to get into the singer (like it's an acquired taste or something).  Can't believe how many albums they have haha.

Brave next. In a dark room with headphones on. Trust me.

I concur. Another fantastic album, along the ones youíve already hit.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1786 on: April 26, 2023, 03:26:02 PM »
I'm really late to the Marillion party...  It wasn't until last year that I listened to "Misplaced Childhood" and wondered where it has been my whole life.  From there naturally I also got into "Clutching at Straws". 

Finally today randomly put on a post-Fish album, "Seasons End".  Holy crap.  Amazing album.  I'm pretty sure "King of Sunset Town" is my current temporary favorite song lol.  Looking forward to diving into more of the catalog.  Maybe I just needed to find an album I like to get into the singer (like it's an acquired taste or something).  Can't believe how many albums they have haha.

Brave next. In a dark room with headphones on. Trust me.


So... when artists write in their own liner notes "Play it loud!" or "Play it with headphones!" I always cringe, but if memory serves, it says exactly what Lonestar advised in the liner notes to the original album Brave, and sonofabitch if they weren't right. Listen to Lonestar and trust him. 

Offline lonestar

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1787 on: April 26, 2023, 03:35:37 PM »
I'm really late to the Marillion party...  It wasn't until last year that I listened to "Misplaced Childhood" and wondered where it has been my whole life.  From there naturally I also got into "Clutching at Straws". 

Finally today randomly put on a post-Fish album, "Seasons End".  Holy crap.  Amazing album.  I'm pretty sure "King of Sunset Town" is my current temporary favorite song lol.  Looking forward to diving into more of the catalog.  Maybe I just needed to find an album I like to get into the singer (like it's an acquired taste or something).  Can't believe how many albums they have haha.

Brave next. In a dark room with headphones on. Trust me.


So... when artists write in their own liner notes "Play it loud!" or "Play it with headphones!" I always cringe, but if memory serves, it says exactly what Lonestar advised in the liner notes to the original album Brave, and sonofabitch if they weren't right. Listen to Lonestar and trust him.


Yeah...there's so much layered into the album that really make it come alive. From the opening spot and the water lapping up on the shore, with the foghorn in the distance, to the whispered dialogue throughout, they paid so much attention to every detail of this album, and it shows.


Listen to Lonestar and trust him.

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1788 on: April 26, 2023, 03:37:07 PM »
Yeah, I think it would be good to go to Brave and then Afraid of Sunlight next, but eventually circle back to Holidays in Eden because I think it's still a really strong album if a bit of a pop detour (not a bad thing in my book). But Brave and Afraid of Sunlight are their masterpieces, IMO.

Lots of people struggle with the catalog between Afraid of Sunlight and their next masterpiece, Marbles, but there's something on each album that I love.

Offline Mladen

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1789 on: April 26, 2023, 03:37:54 PM »
I like Brave, but I don't love it. Maybe I should try lonestar's approach.

Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1790 on: April 26, 2023, 03:57:39 PM »
I would go to Sunlight and Marbles after Seasons End.

Brave is 1 I think can be appreciated most not expecting albums like Misplaced Childhood or Seasons End as it is so much about the concept and story, even though the tunes are still there, but there's more to it, to just expect a bunch of bangers right away might be unfair to it.

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1791 on: April 26, 2023, 05:47:29 PM »
I would go to Sunlight and Marbles after Seasons End.

Brave is 1 I think can be appreciated most not expecting albums like Misplaced Childhood or Seasons End as it is so much about the concept and story, even though the tunes are still there, but there's more to it, to just expect a bunch of bangers right away might be unfair to it.

Iíd say just be aware going into Brave that itís a somewhat less immediate album, but the payoff is huge if you give it the time and attention.

Offline ronnibran

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1792 on: April 26, 2023, 06:54:14 PM »
Sounds like thereís a lot to check out. Thanks for the suggestions!

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1793 on: April 27, 2023, 12:01:56 AM »
I like Brave, but I don't love it. Maybe I should try lonestar's approach.
This approach to albums like Brave is the only way to immerse yourself into the music properly in my opinion. Especially listening for the first time.

I would go to Sunlight and Marbles after Seasons End.

Brave is 1 I think can be appreciated most not expecting albums like Misplaced Childhood or Seasons End as it is so much about the concept and story, even though the tunes are still there, but there's more to it, to just expect a bunch of bangers right away might be unfair to it.
This is actually the way I'd go as well. And then Brave after Marbles. Then go back and catch all the other ones in chronological order. There are gems on all their albums.

Marbles is my favorite album of all time, so I'm a little biased here.....full disclosure and all...
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Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1794 on: April 27, 2023, 03:41:55 AM »
I really love Sounds That Can't be Made, I think that's a stormer. It's a little alienating putting the long song, Gaza, up front, but it somehow works. And The Sky Above the Rain is just beautiful. I do wish they'd find a better mixing engineer, though. Dave Meegan knew how to make albums sound beautiful, Mike Hunter is a cloth eared clod when it comes to mixing (he mixes the live stuff OK, though).
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1795 on: April 27, 2023, 07:06:24 AM »
I really love Sounds That Can't be Made, I think that's a stormer. It's a little alienating putting the long song, Gaza, up front, but it somehow works. And The Sky Above the Rain is just beautiful. I do wish they'd find a better mixing engineer, though. Dave Meegan knew how to make albums sound beautiful, Mike Hunter is a cloth eared clod when it comes to mixing (he mixes the live stuff OK, though).

I know there was some... stress with Meegan's approach (he would catalogue EVERYTHING and pull shit out of his ear late in the process, and was sort of... not demanding, but insistent on putting pieces in that maybe the band wasn't 100% keen on) but in the H era, the Meegan albums are superior, IMO. 

I also know that I checked out of Marillion with This Strange Engine, and only came back with Marbles, a fantastic album.  They're starting to lose me again, though, I must say (I only just bought the latest, and honestly haven't listened to it yet).

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1796 on: April 27, 2023, 07:32:23 AM »
I really love Sounds That Can't be Made, I think that's a stormer. It's a little alienating putting the long song, Gaza, up front, but it somehow works. And The Sky Above the Rain is just beautiful. I do wish they'd find a better mixing engineer, though. Dave Meegan knew how to make albums sound beautiful, Mike Hunter is a cloth eared clod when it comes to mixing (he mixes the live stuff OK, though).

I really like Gaza for what it is, but it kind of sucks all the oxygen out of the room and doesnít play so well on Sounds That Canít Be Made. I almost always skip it when listening to the album and tend to only listen to Gaza as a stand alone. It just doesnít seem to fit with the rest of that album (which I think is very good overall).

I also know that I checked out of Marillion with This Strange Engine, and only came back with Marbles, a fantastic album.  They're starting to lose me again, though, I must say (I only just bought the latest, and honestly haven't listened to it yet).

Iím still really loving An Hour Before Itís Dark and think it is potentially up there with the best of Marillion. It also suffers from having a difficult opening track though. I donít get much out of Be Hard On Yourself musically and it goes on way too long for what it is. But everything after that is great, and the second half of the album (The Crow and The Nightingale, Sierra Leone, and Care) is up there with any other stretch of music the band have put to tape. Iíd almost recommend just starting with those three before tackling the first half of the album.

Also, I have no issues with Hunterís mixing. Itís a bit up front but the albums still sound good to me.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1797 on: April 27, 2023, 07:53:34 AM »
One other point AND THIS IS NOT POLITICAL (I really don't give a rat's ass about political lyrics):  it used to be fun to buy a Marillion album and read through the lyrics.  There was always something to grasp onto and/or dig into. An interesting take; an alternate point of view.   The last couple records are just... boring from that standpoint.  I read through the lyrics on An Hour Before It's Dark a couple nights ago, and was wildly under-impressed.  I know "Clutching At Straws" about as well as I know ANY album in my collection; I've heard it literally 100's of times.   When the deluxe remix came out a couple years ago, I knew within the first song that it was a new REMIX... and yet, perusing the lyrics I was STILL finding neat little puns and inferences and hidden meanings.  Granted, that might be my number one album EVER in terms of lyrical content, but there are other H albums in the catalogue like that - Season's End, Marbles, Brave.  But not the last couple.   

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1798 on: April 27, 2023, 08:37:23 AM »
One other point AND THIS IS NOT POLITICAL (I really don't give a rat's ass about political lyrics):  it used to be fun to buy a Marillion album and read through the lyrics.  There was always something to grasp onto and/or dig into. An interesting take; an alternate point of view.   The last couple records are just... boring from that standpoint.  I read through the lyrics on An Hour Before It's Dark a couple nights ago, and was wildly under-impressed.  I know "Clutching At Straws" about as well as I know ANY album in my collection; I've heard it literally 100's of times.   When the deluxe remix came out a couple years ago, I knew within the first song that it was a new REMIX... and yet, perusing the lyrics I was STILL finding neat little puns and inferences and hidden meanings.  Granted, that might be my number one album EVER in terms of lyrical content, but there are other H albums in the catalogue like that - Season's End, Marbles, Brave.  But not the last couple.   

Stadler, Iím serious about those last three tracks on AHBID. Those are real gems, and I think H really outdid himself lyrically there. The imagery on The Crow and The Nightingale is spectacular. Itís a essentially a tribute to Leonard Cohen, who I also couldnít give a rats booty about, but it doesnít matter. Just some really cool allusions and metaphors in that one. I think it really might be Hís best lyric.

Some very cool things in Sierra Leone and Care lyrically as well. I donít know how obvious they might be without hearing Hís commentary on it (if you got the deluxe version with the DVD, check out the making of documentary on them).

Offline Stadler

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1799 on: April 27, 2023, 08:56:37 AM »
Well, I will dig in to the docs; I usually do with them and the explanations often give illumination (remember, Fish used to speak extensively about his words).   

Offline UndercoverMyung

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1800 on: April 30, 2023, 10:32:25 PM »
Giving FEAR a beginning to end listen for maybe the first time even though I know the songs on their own.
Anyways, I love this album. Just so good. Still so many Marillion albums I've never heard though. Brave next I think. Tonight. Dark room with headphones. Sounds cool.

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1801 on: June 06, 2023, 02:03:34 PM »
So I ripped the DVD content to hard drive in order to watch the doc and what not, and I found that there's an INSTRUMENTAL version of the record.  WHOA!!   Totally different feel, of course, but I put it on and before I realized it I was 3/4 of the way through the record.  What a neat experience!!!

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1802 on: June 06, 2023, 02:18:10 PM »
So I ripped the DVD content to hard drive in order to watch the doc and what not, and I found that there's an INSTRUMENTAL version of the record.  WHOA!!   Totally different feel, of course, but I put it on and before I realized it I was 3/4 of the way through the record.  What a neat experience!!!

Oh yeah, the instrumental mix is quite interesting. There really is a lot of cool stuff going on that gets a little bit lost with the vocals in the mix.

Offline nick_z

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1803 on: June 06, 2023, 06:31:48 PM »
Anyone got the Seasons End Deluxe boxset? Is it worthy of purchase?

(I absolutely love the album...just wondering about the extras and/or the remix...)

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1804 on: June 06, 2023, 06:44:32 PM »
Anyone got the Seasons End Deluxe boxset? Is it worthy of purchase?

(I absolutely love the album...just wondering about the extras and/or the remix...)
Are you talking about the one with the new remix, plus the Live in Leicester show? If so, I actually just got that today. I'll post my thoughts once I give it all a spin.
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Offline nick_z

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1805 on: June 06, 2023, 07:12:08 PM »
Anyone got the Seasons End Deluxe boxset? Is it worthy of purchase?

(I absolutely love the album...just wondering about the extras and/or the remix...)
Are you talking about the one with the new remix, plus the Live in Leicester show? If so, I actually just got that today. I'll post my thoughts once I give it all a spin.

Yes, that one...I believe it came out recently (couple months ago)? I'm reading it also has a Blu Ray with other goodies (not sure why the demo versions and other tracks are on the BR, instead of a CD...?)

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1806 on: June 06, 2023, 09:19:43 PM »
I have it, forgot to post about it. I was a little disappointed on my first listen to the new mix. Itís a dryer mix maybe? Just doesnít have the same shine and vibrance of the original. Lot of bass, had to turn down my EQ. Need to give it another listen though.

The documentary is good. Havenít watched the live shows or listened to the concert discs yet. The most interesting thing were the new demos on the DVD. Some interesting stuff there that they dug out.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1807 on: June 07, 2023, 06:28:13 AM »
So on the Seasons End Deluxe Version...  it's Leicester 2022, not the Leicester show from 1990 that was on the "Stoke Row to Ipanema" set.   That too is on there, I think, on the BluRay, but unlike all the previous deluxe sets there's not a new show from the era.  They claim that there's not any good material from that time; I'm sorta calling bullshit on that, since they could put some of the material from the 'Front Row' club on there that is now out of print, but that's me.   Generally speaking, the Deluxe sets have been very good, not great.  I'm not always a fan of the new mixes (I've written about the Clutching one in the past; I know that album SO WELL that any changes are sort of jarring) but the sets generally are well done, and there always seems to be something new and intriguing in all of them.

Oh, anyone have an extra Brave Deluxe they want to move to a good home? HAHA (It's the only one I don't have).

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1808 on: June 07, 2023, 11:23:16 PM »
I have it, forgot to post about it. I was a little disappointed on my first listen to the new mix. Itís a dryer mix maybe? Just doesnít have the same shine and vibrance of the original. Lot of bass, had to turn down my EQ. Need to give it another listen though.

The documentary is good. Havenít watched the live shows or listened to the concert discs yet. The most interesting thing were the new demos on the DVD. Some interesting stuff there that they dug out.

On another listen tonight, and I'm enjoying it more than before. Dryer drum sound requires an adjustment (much like with Clutching at Straws), and the bass is a bit more prominent. But I'm also hearing some little details here and there, like some additional or more prominent clean guitar on the intro to Berlin.

Offline ytserush

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1809 on: June 18, 2023, 06:54:08 PM »
I think they will given how they have periodically over the last 25 years. They just need to find ways to do it without losing money.

I suspect they aren't coming back unless they announce their farewell tour.  Way too many obstacles to coming to the US these days.

Offline ytserush

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1810 on: June 18, 2023, 06:58:01 PM »
I'm really late to the Marillion party...  It wasn't until last year that I listened to "Misplaced Childhood" and wondered where it has been my whole life.  From there naturally I also got into "Clutching at Straws". 

Finally today randomly put on a post-Fish album, "Seasons End".  Holy crap.  Amazing album.  I'm pretty sure "King of Sunset Town" is my current temporary favorite song lol.  Looking forward to diving into more of the catalog.  Maybe I just needed to find an album I like to get into the singer (like it's an acquired taste or something).  Can't believe how many albums they have haha.

Brave next. In a dark room with headphones on. Trust me.

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Offline ytserush

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1811 on: June 18, 2023, 07:04:20 PM »
Yeah, I think it would be good to go to Brave and then Afraid of Sunlight next, but eventually circle back to Holidays in Eden because I think it's still a really strong album if a bit of a pop detour (not a bad thing in my book). But Brave and Afraid of Sunlight are their masterpieces, IMO.

Lots of people struggle with the catalog between Afraid of Sunlight and their next masterpiece, Marbles, but there's something on each album that I love.

Took me about 15 years to get into Afraid of Sunlight and even then it's only about half. The Deluxe version kind of solidified it for me with they live show they included. Even Cannibal Surf Babe live was decent on that.

Offline nick_z

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1812 on: June 18, 2023, 07:10:26 PM »
Got my Seasons Ends' Deluxe Edition for Father's Day  :) I'll try to dig into that tomorrow...

Offline ytserush

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1813 on: June 18, 2023, 07:18:42 PM »
Anyone got the Seasons End Deluxe boxset? Is it worthy of purchase?

(I absolutely love the album...just wondering about the extras and/or the remix...)

It was worth it for me. Have them all except Brave. Didn't really like them messing with artwork and the Marillion Weekend performance of those songs, but I really like the mix. It was similar to Holidays In Eden which are two of the best mixes of the series.

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1814 on: June 18, 2023, 09:43:58 PM »
You might have to be a member of this group to see this post, but Lucy Jordache recently posted a breakdown of expenses for a US tour against a recent promoterís offer as an example of why they arenít able to come back to the US.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/651267041594228/permalink/6346148968772645/?m_entstream_source=contextual_profile_feed&anchor_composer=false&paipv=0&eav=AfZw6vUZfZa797owHFkhkMWHBw8kX8evsCjrsqwb9_z8Ic1I-X0ip88sfzM1WKCae9k

Offline lonestar

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1815 on: June 18, 2023, 10:23:49 PM »
You might have to be a member of this group to see this post, but Lucy Jordache recently posted a breakdown of expenses for a US tour against a recent promoterís offer as an example of why they arenít able to come back to the US.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/651267041594228/permalink/6346148968772645/?m_entstream_source=contextual_profile_feed&anchor_composer=false&paipv=0&eav=AfZw6vUZfZa797owHFkhkMWHBw8kX8evsCjrsqwb9_z8Ic1I-X0ip88sfzM1WKCae9k

Yeah, you have to be a member. Can you copy/paste so I don't have to wait till they approve my membership.

Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1816 on: June 18, 2023, 10:42:35 PM »
Quote
I keep seeing questions about a US tour so thought I would lay it all on the line.
Here is an example of a tour I was trying to work out recently - only 6 dates in the US.  We were offered $250,000.00. Sounds good right?
Now lets take away the costs...
$37,500.00 - 15% witholding tax
$25,000.00 - 10% payment to our agent
$25,000.00 - hotels - we take a lot of crew and we don't expect them to share rooms.  And we don't stay in Motel 8s
$30,000.00 - Tour bus
$10,000.00 - truck
$4,000.00 - PDS for band and crew
$37,200.00 - crew wages (it costs us $3,100.00 per day and crew get paid on days off)
$10,000.00 - Visas - and that's if the price doesn't increase as they are threatening to do)
$10,000.00 - Tax accountants - even to get the tax reduced to 15% down from 30% costs us a fortune to do
$20,000.00 - Flights the band travel business class and the crew in economy
$10,000.00 - there is ALWAYS things that are unaccounted for
$15,000.00 - Extra PA and Lights - the venues don't always have what the band want to put on the show you are used to
$20,000.00 - Shipping of Equipment - the band always want to use their own instruments.
Total Expenditure (and many of these are estimates and might be even higher) $252,700.00
So this six date tour would make us LOSE $2700.00
Yes we can sell merchandise but all the venues also want 30% commission on merch sales.
None of these calculations take into consideration my time spent organising everything and taking me away from doing other jobs (for example I remember organising the 45 dates of the Marbles tour in the UK and EU took me half as long in my time as to work out as the 10 date US tour.)
'But how can Hackett, Riverside etc etc tour the US' - Well my answer is I don't know because I am not them.  Maybe they rely on their merch sales, maybe they have record company help.  Maybe they stay in cheap hotels and fly economy and used hired gear.  Maybe they get higher offers to start with.  I am only answering what our position is.  We would LOVE to come back to the US, but the way things are at the moment I can't see this changing.  It doesn't mean forever, but it does mean for now.  If only the boys had cracked America in the 80s we might have stood a chance!
Thanks for taking the time to read this.  x

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1817 on: June 18, 2023, 10:49:42 PM »
There you go!

I know in times past the band have done things like rent equipment, but they always seem to have a horror story to accompany it. I think they could probably find some ways to scale back to make some money or at least break even, but at their age I can see why that just isnít worth it to them anymore.

Offline lonestar

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1818 on: June 18, 2023, 10:53:57 PM »

I know in times past the band have done things like rent equipment, but they always seem to have a horror story to accompany it. I think they could probably find some ways to scale back to make some money or at least break even, but at their age I can see why that just isnít worth it to them anymore.

I mean, I don't blame em, no sense in not making money. And fans who have the means can just go to the Montreal weekend, it's just those of us without the means who are out of luck. Thankfully I have four Marillion shows under my belt already.

I wonder how the cost breakdown of doing a single weekend in the US would be?

Offline Stadler

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Re: Marillion
« Reply #1819 on: June 19, 2023, 06:04:46 AM »
I don't know.  As she writes, "I'm not them".    But six shows, in 2,500 seat theaters, at $75 per ticket is $1,125,000 gross. I know there are fees.  I know you have to pay for the venues.  I get it. But Marillion have always made me shake my head a bit at the business side of things. I know they are pioneers on the crowd-funding, blah, blah, blah.

But how does Neal Morse do it?   The only things that are different from that list and Neal are the Visas, and some percentage of the flights (they don't all have to fly from the UK to the US, but they DO have to fly from wherever they are to the starting point). 

And why not package with someone?  NOT FISH - they both have said that's not going to happen, so let's not even moot that - but why not have a double-headlining tour like so many American bands do? 

I feel like "if there's a will there's a way", and there isn't the will, frankly.