Stadler's Roulette, 2.0: Singles A's and B's: We have a Champeen!

[TAC]

Jesus, I'm very likely gonna have mine up before you two do 

Got my first batch up 

Yeah, and you did a great job with it too!!

[Lowdz]

Take your time Stadler. I still got nothin’ for the next round 😀

[Stadler]

I'm trying guys; I intended to have them today, but work sucked the last two days.  Still trying for today, Monday the LATEST.  There will be a little surprise with them as well (for some of you). 

Start planning for your next round.

[TAC]

Start planning for your next round.

I already sent! 

How about the next round?

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I'm trying guys; I intended to have them today, but work sucked the last two days.  Still trying for today, Monday the LATEST.  There will be a little surprise with them as well (for some of you). 

Start planning for your next round.

Is the surprise, getting cut?

[Lowdz]

I'm trying guys; I intended to have them today, but work sucked the last two days.  Still trying for today, Monday the LATEST.  There will be a little surprise with them as well (for some of you). 

Start planning for your next round.

What do you do for a job Stadler? Clearing up after Trump? 😀😀😀😀

[Stadler]

I'm trying guys; I intended to have them today, but work sucked the last two days.  Still trying for today, Monday the LATEST.  There will be a little surprise with them as well (for some of you). 

Start planning for your next round.

What do you do for a job Stadler? Clearing up after Trump?

Might as well be; I'm counsel for a company that sells trains and train control equipment (when you're standing on the platform, and it says "Your Train" is coming in five minutes, all the technology that delivers that info is from my company).    As you can imagine, we have software/hardware that is considered "safety vital" and we had an incident in the Midwest right before Christmas, so things are busier than they should be at this time of year.   

We're close, I promise.

No one is getting cut this round.   Next round is the last before the "Championship Rounds".   

Oh, and those that didn't send their preferences to Lethean, last chance.   Take advantage of the delays! 

[jingle.boy]

Take advantage of the delays! 

Just like the trains your software manages! 

[Nekov]

[Stadler]

Take advantage of the delays! 

Just like the trains your software manages! 

Oh snap!!! 

[Stadler]

So… controversy, I think.  I had in mind something very singular, and while it was very specific, I thought SOMEONE would get it, and that having someone step up would create some separation going into the final open field race.   DLR vs. Sammy.  I was sort of thinking Airheads (“Okay, lemme ask you a question: who's side did you take in the big David Lee Roth-Van Halen split?  Who's side did you take: Halen or Roth?” Other guy: “Van Halen”   Group: “HE'S A COP!”)  There’s not a song I can name with Dave or Sam actually singing that I could accept, so I thought I’d try to determine who YOU’D pick by your submittals of other songs/artists.  None of you alluded to that, or made it easy, or even said your preference!    SO, and here’s the controversy, I’m going to basically give all of you “2” on the meeting the theme – all sort of variations on the two singers, same band idea – and, with I think three exceptions that were just way outside the box (and I want to continue to reward that even if it’s not exactly on point) the “creativity” point is going to be zero, and there will be bonus points awarded:  you all were given the chance to send Lethean your choice of Sam or Dave; if I guess it right, you get the bonus point.  If you didn’t, or didn’t reply, nope. 

Generally some really good songs here; most of you sent either the same band or same singer for both songs, so just by human nature there's a lot of 6/5, 6/4, etc. because it's logical to compare the two.  I didn't shy away from that at all.   

For the record, Stadler says “Diamond Dave”, and Stadler says “Diamond Dave”.

[Stadler]

NEKOV – 16.0
   Von Hertzen Brothers – Somewhere In The Middle      6   2   0.5   8.5
   Von Hertzen Brothers – Always Been Right         5   2   0.5   7.5

Stadler said “I have no idea, but I’ll guess Dave” and Nekov said ”Sammy”.

Yeah, I do appreciate your lateral thinking.  I liked that.  I also LOVED the first song.  That’s a really good tune and I found myself going back to it a lot.  The second wasn’t as strong, though as much as I try to “keep it about the music”, I have to say, you got “bleed through” because the video was so funny!.  Of all the submissions, yours is the one where the “Sammy/Dave” guess is most purely that, since there are almost zero elements of either in the music.  I went back and forth between “the song” (Sammy) and the pure comedy of the video (Dave) and while I was at “Sammy” for most of the review, I switched to Dave at the last minute, incorrectly as it turned out.         

INDISCIPLINE – 17.0
   Andrew Strong – Hard To Handle            5   2   0.5 (+1)   8.5
   Dave Meniketti – It’s Over            5   2   0.5 (+1)   8.5

Stadler said “Sammy”, Indiscipline said “Sammy”.

I feel bad again.  This is why I’m not cut out for roulettes.  You were probably the most creative of all the submissions, by far, but… I’m not the hugest fan of the blue eyed soul singer, and plus the song was ruined for me by the Black Crowes.   It got higher than it probably should have simply because I respect a good performance and of course, everything David Gilmour touches is gold.    I’m a moderate fan of Y&T, and I know Dave Meniketti is the guy; I liked this but again, the sort of metal guy who’s a closet blues freak is sort of lost on me. I know I’m not being fair, here, but I call it the “Joe Perry Syndrome”; he’s gold in Aerosmith, and has written some of the greatest riffs in rock history.  But while he’s great and certainly owes no one anything, he’s clearly better with Steven singing his hyper-sexual gobbly-gook over the riffs.  When Joe steps out for his “blues workouts” (they used to play “Red House” live as his solo spot) you can’t really get more cliché than that. I know this isn’t about Joe Fuckin’ Perry, but it’s the same idea and so I see it through the same lenses.  Unfortunately. 

KINGSHMEGLAND  - 15.5
   I Mother Earth – Like A Girl            5   2   0   7
   I Mother Earth – Hell & Malfunction         6.5   2   0   8.5

Stadler says “Sammy”, King said…

I’ve heard Edwin before, with Alex and to be honest there wasn’t a lot to encourage me to dig in further.   I didn’t dislike the album, but there’s a quality about his voice that doesn’t move me.   It’s the same hurdle I had to get over with Devin Townsend, in a way.  But this song is pretty good.   I like it, not love it.  But then… the rule has been so far that the second singer is either a let down or a jarring change of pace. This was the opposite.  I LOVED that second song.   The song was good, to start, and the performance just delivered.  Everything about it was just in synch.  That was really good, and I might even add that to the list of “Go investigate!”  Nice job!

JINGLE.BOY – 18.0
   Sieges Even – Sequence VIII                6   2   0.5 (+1)   9.5
   Subsignal – Feeding Utopia               5   2   0.5 (+1)   8.5

Stadler said “Sammy”; Jingle said “Sammy”. 

So I essentially got four songs from the same act, more or less.  Two Sieges Even songs from Puppies and two – one Sieges Even one Subsignal - from you.   It took me a lot to reconcile  but once I figured out who was singing on what, it became pretty clear, and to your advantage.  I like Arno, and while I didn’t get a vibe of “different singer” there seemed to me to be a difference of approach from the two, which is very Van Halen-esque.   The Subsignal seemed to be “Rainbow” to Seiges Even’s “Deep Purple”; that is to say, a little glossier.  I liked the music a lot and the Subsignal really grew on me over a couple listens.   I think I’m going to dig in a little on the Arno material.  I like his voice, and it complements the music very well.   These are SONGS.

[Stadler]

TAC – 18.0   
Waysted – Heaven Tonight         6.5   2   1   9.5
   Waysted – Heroes Die Young         5.5   2   1   8.5

Stadler said “Diamond Dave”, TAC said ”Diamond Dave”.

I have a theory; it’s all about the song.    I think James LaBrie is the voice of DT, and DT wouldn’t be what they are without him, but his solo albums don’t really stand up for me, because he doesn’t have Petrucci or Rudess composing for him.  Jeff Beck isn’t the name that Jim Page is (even though they are almost identical in terms of talent and origins) because Beck doesn’t have the compositional capabilities that Page does.  I could go on.  I’m fairly new to UFO, and except for the Michael Schenker stuff, I have almost zero exposure to any of the solo stuff by the members.  So what a pleasant surprise to hear Heaven Tonight; the singer even has a Phil Mogg quality to his voice, and with Paul Chapman, well, the circle is complete. I loved that song.   The second was was pretty good (I’m familiar with Danny Vaughn’s story if not his music), and was a good tune, but it didn’t have the magic that the first one did.  This is almost as good an example of the “style/emotion vs. technical ability” debate as Dave and Sam.   

FIREWINGS/KATTLEOX – 15.0
Angra – Silent Call               5.5   2   0   7.5
   Angra – Always More               5.5   2   0   7.5

Stadler said “Sammy”, Kattelox said “Diamond Dave”.

Good tunes.   Solid.   I can’t say “song of the round”, or that I’m going to run out and buy the catalogue, but it was good and solid.  I got a real Floyd vibe from the second song, and done right (usually it’s not) that’s a win.   I don’t really have much to say here, and that’s not a knock, just a reflection of the straightforwardness of the music and the performances.  Good solid music, and so not much more to say.  As for the guess, another last minute switcheroo; I take you for a Dave fan, but the songwriting and performance here suggests Sammy more so that’s where I went, again, incorrectly.   

V-CHLORTHO – 17.5   
Iced Earth – Dracula               6   2   1   9
   Iced Earth – High Water Mark            5.5   2   1   8.5

Stadler said “Diamond Dave”, v_Clorto said “Diamond Dave”.

I suppose as a Yes or Deep Purple fan I can’t complain about members coming and going, but in my defense, I got into both bands with their second, most iconic lineups, and had some scruples with when and with who I stuck around (not a fan of the post-Squire and Bolin years, respectively.   But it seems to me that Iced Earth is one of those bands that’s hard to follow, lineup wise, and other than Richard Christy, I’m not that interested in that kind of music to really invest.  So I’m grateful for submissions like this.   Both songs slayed.  I loved Dracula, and the idea of the album is clever (reminds me of I think it was Star One a little bit).  Matt Barlow has a sort of Paul Stanley vibe going on (back when he could sing) and so that song really resonated with me.   At first I listened to High Water Mark, and thought it had a real Priest vibe… well it should!  It’s Ripper!   I’m not the hugest fan of Owens; I mean, he can sing, but why not listen to the real Rob Halford?    But here, he sings in enough different voices that it’s really interesting and good, and really the only “Priest!” moment is well into the song, and has as much to do with the twin guitars as any of the vocals.  I liked this and I’m glad you sent it in.

ROMDRUMS – 15.0   
Skyharbor - Evolution            5.5   2   0   7.5
   Skyharbor – Ugly Heart            5.5   2   0   7.5

Stadler said “Sammy”, Romdrums said “Diamond Dave”

I feel like you might not be happy with the score here, but it’s not that any of this was bad.  In fact, it really grew on me, and while at first I was like “maybe he should have stuck with the first choice…” , I think ultimately you made the right call.   It really grew on me through repeated listens.   I liked how I heard something new each time and that it was something I REALLY like:  music that is probably ten times more complex than it actually sounds.   I think it’s a skill of a true musician – Portnoy, Morse (Steve), Collins – to take something exceedingly challenging and make it sound like it could be done around a campfire with a guitar missing two strings.  A little extreme, maybe, but that’s of what this reminded me.   It helps that I loved both singers. I think they were discernable but they both played well with others. 

[Stadler]

PUPPIES ON ACID – 14.5   
Sieges Even - Reporter               6   2   0   8
   Sieges Even – Where Our Shadows Sleep         4.5   2   0   6.5

Stadler said “Diamond Dave”, Puppies said “Sammy”.

Puppies, in hindsight, you got screwed coming and going here.  Sort of.   The first song – one of the first I heard of the round, which, it seems, sometimes matters – was the song of the round for much of my listening time.   Really good, and with the help of Jingle – who sent two songs with the same singer, so I know it’s not a fluke or an anomaly – it just got better.   But then I heard the I Mother Earth song and it sort of stole that “song of the round” spot.  Then, you had another song by the same band and it just didn’t stand up.  That second singer is just too much… System Of A Down quirky for me and it really suffered for the comparison with Arno.  I can certainly see if the fanbase was divided by this.  Finally, I took a stab with “Diamond Dave” and, well, that didn’t work out well for you.

EVERMIND – 17.0   
Kamelot – Abandoned            6   2   1   9
   Kamelot – Song For Jolee            5   2   1   8

Stadler said “Sammy”, Evermind said “Sammy”.

Kamelot is another band I’ve heard a lot about and yet know very little.  I really liked that first song.   I don’t know that it was all the singer, but that was a really emotive song, and that chorus is one that sticks with you (I think we’ve all been there at one time or another, if not literally then at least emotionally).   The second song suffered for being not quite as good, and with a singer that wasn’t quite as emotive…  that doesn’t mean it’s bad – it’s not at all – but it pales in comparison to the first one which was really strong.  I’d like to hear more, if only to see if all the music is as “melancholy” (your word, which I agree with) as this.

WOLFKING – 14.5
Danger Danger – Still Kickin’ (Poley)            5.5   2   0   7.5
   Danger Danger – Still Kickin’ (Laine)            5   2   0   7

Stadler said “Diamond Dave”, Wolfking said nothing.

Odd submission in the sense that being from the North East, I’ve heard Danger Danger, I’ve heard of Ted Poley (he’s kind of quasi-legendary, in a way), but haven’t really heard much of their music beyond the one hit (“Bang Bang”).   I liked the idea of being able to compare two vocalists on one song, studio, and make a comparison.   Unfortunately, this isn’t a great tune.   It’s also odd, because I like Poley better than Laine; Poley has character, whereas Laine sounds like he’s trying to be any of 10 nameless faceless metal singers making the rounds of once-classic bands looking to get on a national tour.  But I like the Laine version of the song better. I gave a half a point to Poley for being the original, but that easily could have been the same score for both.   

SCORPION – 0.0
DNF                        0   0   0   0
   DNF                        0   0   0   0

Stadler said “Gary Cherone”, Scorpion said “Patty Smythe” or “Daryl Hall”.

I wish it wasn’t so, but zeros across the board.  I tried to find something metaphysical to give at least creativity points, but couldn’t even do that. 

[TAC]

  This is almost as good an example of the “style/emotion vs. technical ability” debate as Dave and Sam.   

Yeah, that was exactly what I was going for. I'm glad you caught that. FYI, on the Vaughan Waysted album, they also do a version of Heaven Tonight, but it is so completely neutered.

[Stadler]

SACUL – 13.0
The Stooges – Down On The Street            5.5   1   0   6.5
   The Stooges – Loose               5.5   1   0   6.5

Stadler said “Diamond Dave”, Sacul said… nothing. 

Haha, again, confused.    The Stooges; this is the version with one brother on drums, and one brother on guitar, but it’s the same singer (same album!).   So I gave a point for the theme on this one.   The songs are unassailable; The Stooges have taken on a life well beyond their actual contribution, but that’s not to say that music isn’t strong.  It’s good, honest, hard-nosed rock and roll.  Not punk, not metal, not alternative, just “rock and roll”.  I love it.   So the music gets high marks, but I just can’t really see fit to go much beyond that.

HOME – 13.5
OWEL – All I’ll Ever Know               5.5   1   0   6.5
   OWEL - Float                  6   1   0   7

Stadler said “Sammy”, Home said… nothing.

As a joke, I almost gave 7 + 2+ 1 + bonus point just because of the vaguely erotic, and not a little disturbingly suggestive, video for “All I’ll Ever Know”, but then I realized I owed more to this than to treat it like a joke.  These were really good songs.  I loved the buildup/payoff of the first song; it was swirling in a good way, and really made it worth sticking around.   The start of Float was kind of jarring in that context, but patience paid off.  After the slow start (and I don’t mean that in musical terms, I mean as in “slight”) the song escalated, and the start actually worked in your favor.   Add to that the almost orchestral ending and I’m sure I liked Float better.   I’m not sure I buy into the connection to the theme, and you didn’t apply for the bonus points, so it is what it is, but like the last two submissions, your take is creative and I liked the thought you put into it, and for that, I thank you. 

ELITE – 15.0
Pain Of Salvation - ! (Forward)               5   2   0.5   7.5
   Pain Of Salvation – Meaningless               5   2   0.5   7.5

Stadler said “Sammy”, Elite said… nothing.

Hmmm. Good creativity with the band change, but given that you stuck with the same singer, I’ve kind of got to focus on that, and I have to say, Gildenlow doesn’t really work for me.   I get the sort of idea of “acting” with your vocals, but there didn’t seem to be a theme or reason for the changing; sometimes it was a clean tenor, sometimes a growl (which are lost on me except in the most specific of cases, like the Star One song from earlier in the roulette) and it didn’t connect.   The second song was much more interesting and engaging, and I liked the double-tracked vocals in the chorus (that melody reminds me of a Kiss song, go figure…).  I felt like the vocals served the song a lot better, but even then, it seems like it’s more gymnastics than not. I gave you a half-point for flipping the change into a the band change. 

LOWDZ – 17.5
Savatage – Gutter Ballet               5.5   2   1   8.5
   Savatage – Edge of Thorns            6   2   1   9

Stadler said “Diamond Dave”, Lowdz said “Diamond Dave”.

I’ve heard of the “Gutter Ballet” and I was prepared to say “I’ve heard this before”, but honestly I can’t recall it, so I let it stand.  Each section seems vaguely evocative of other things; there’s some “Eye Of The Tiger” in there, there’s even a little “Time Warp” from Rocky Horror.   Certainly you can hear what later we all embraced as “The Transiberian Orchestra”, and that’s what most impresses; this is cinematic.  I can’t say I love the screechy, vibrato-laden vocals on the chorus, but the song makes up for it.  But as much as I liked the more well-known Gutter Baller, the revelation was “Edge Of Thorns”.  Still cinematic, still evocative, but the singer (Zachary Stevens) elevated this.  I love the Dio-esque, “… the edge of thorns… but I don’t think about you anymore”; it’s straight out of “The Sign Of The Southern Cross” (which is as good as it gets for Dio-era Sabbath).    I also loved how the solo was more a part than just wankery.  This was good. 

[Stadler]

I'll update the OP and the standings later tonight or first thing in the morning. 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Ouch

[v_clortho]

I almost sent Savage as well. Nice choice. I probably would have picked different songs, but there are so many to choose from that it's hard to go wrong.

For the theme I thought you were either looking for bands with different singers, it we're going for a party vibe vs a more serious vibe.

[The Walrus]

I just straight up don't understand the themes or how they factor into the scoring tbh. I can't stand Van Hagar. Oh well, very excited to send you two songs for the next round.

[jingle.boy]

Now to figure out what songs have to do with me.   

[Lowdz]

I’m happy with that. I felt some responsibility representing such a great band. I felt the same as you regarding the vocals - they always put me off a bit with Jon Oliva and stopped me loving the band.

So many great songs I could have chosen.

I also considered Danger Danger, Kamelot and Iced Earth

[TAC]

[The Walrus]

Nobody will be surprised by my two submissions 

[Nekov]

I'll take that. I think I know what to send next but I want to take a look at my library to make sure

[Evermind]

Hell yes, my trusted d20 didn't let me down with Sammy Hagar.

[jingle.boy]

Hell yes, my trusted d20 didn't let me down with Sammy Hagar.

Wrong roulette, nerd.

[Nekov]

 

Sent

[jingle.boy]

Sentski.

Results in February?

[Nekov]

I think you're being a little bit of an optimist there

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I'll send something tonight.

[Elite]

Stadler said “Sammy”, Elite said… nothing.

And here I thought I was being clever by not replying. I seriously wouldn't recognise one from the other, nor do I know anything about Van Halen, apart from Eddie being the guitarist and a couple of their hit songs.

[Stadler]

I just straight up don't understand the themes or how they factor into the scoring tbh. I can't stand Van Hagar. Oh well, very excited to send you two songs for the next round.

Well, there's a theme.  And there's the "obvious" and the "not so obvious".   I've already quoted him, but TAC had it nailed (I quoted him before the... third round results, I think it was).  I'm trying really hard to reward creativity even if I don't get it or it wasn't what I was thinking.  This isn't "Mind Reading 101".

The Sammy/Dave thing was a way of keeping it interesting.  I'm sorry if anyone is upset about that. 

[Stadler]

TAC              16   17   15   18   66
Nekov      16.5   16   16.5   16   65
Jingle      15   16.5   15.5   18   65
King              14.5   16.5   18.5   15.5   65
Indiscipline   17   15.5   14.5   17   64
Evermind      15.5   14.5   17   17   64
Romdrums   16   15.5   17   15   63.5
v-Chlortho   15.5   14.5   16   17.5   63.5
Lowdz      16   15   14.5   17.5   63
Home      16   16   14   13.5   59.5
Puppies      14   16   15   14.5   59.5
Wolfking      15   15.5   13.5   14.5   58.5
Firewings      15   15   13.5   15   58.5
Elite      12.5   15.5   14.5   15   57.5
Sacul      15   14   14   13   56
Scorpion      17   0   0   0   17

[Lethean]

I just straight up don't understand the themes or how they factor into the scoring tbh. I can't stand Van Hagar. Oh well, very excited to send you two songs for the next round.

Well, there's a theme.  And there's the "obvious" and the "not so obvious".   I've already quoted him, but TAC had it nailed (I quoted him before the... third round results, I think it was).  I'm trying really hard to reward creativity even if I don't get it or it wasn't what I was thinking.  This isn't "Mind Reading 101".

But instead of making us try to find that quote, could you explain it? . I helped with the data collection but I don't really understand what you meant by the theme.  I just assumed you meant a band with two different singers. You mentioned emotion vs technical ability in your write up for TAC - is that it?  I'm not a VH fan, but I personally would say that Hagar has more of both (imo of course), so I would never have seen that as a choice between the two.  I'm just curious how you saw the whole thing.