Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[bosk1]

So your counterpoint is to suggest a reunion tour is in the works?

No, not at all.  I'm just saying that Chris selling his publishing rights does not necessarily add up to "no reunion."  I'm just presenting alternate conclusions one could draw, that's all.

[Stadler]

My point in mentioning any sort of reunion was to point out that if Chris had intended to reunite with QR, it would have, IMO, been better to wait to sell off the publishing to the songs from Empire and Mindcrime, because a reunion would give those songs a larger boost, and thereby give him a bit more leverage in whatever negotiations he held with Sony when coming to a financial figure for the sale (potentially, Chris could have gotten more than whatever he received). But it is a moot point now, because the sale is done, which, at least to me, could possibly be an indication that he's moved on from any sort of reunion possibility.

I don't completely disagree, and I obviously am also speculating, but here's a counter-point to consider:  Maybe CDG was looking to get out from under those falling publishing numbers anyway, but Sony couldn't or wouldn't offer him enough to make it worthwhile.  But if Chris were to promise a reunion tour, that would provide a potential bump in income from those publishing rights, and perhaps would have given Sony incentive to offer just a bit more that would have put the offer into the "sweet spot" you mentioned to where it is worth it for both parties to do the deal.

Obviously everyone has their circumstances, but for the life of me I can't image selling my publishing.  Taking the lump sum is sort of penny-wise and pound foolish absent some other determining factors.   It's an annuity.   All you have to have is one song hit it on a soundtrack or something, and bammo, the numbers are radically different. 

[Stadler]

I saw them open for Kiss; it was Kiss's Animalize tour, and QR's The Warning tour.   I remember having heard the EP at that point (they played the entire EP plus about half or a little more of The Warning) but I was there for Kiss.   I can remember thinking "wow that guy can SING!" but having only heard the EP at that point much of the music was lost in the echo-ing cavern that was the old New Haven Coliseum.  I can't really remember much about the rest; I do know that QR didn't really connect with me until Operation: Mindcrime.  I played the SHIT out of that record when it came out (and Empire, but as much as I like Empire, O:M is where it's at for me).  For whatever reason I didn't get to see the O:M tour or the Empire tour, and I can't see myself seeing either entity at this point. I have the first post-Tater QR record and it's good, but I'm not really on the bandwagon anymore.

[Samsara]

So your counterpoint is to suggest a reunion tour is in the works?

No, not at all.  I'm just saying that Chris selling his publishing rights does not necessarily add up to "no reunion."  I'm just presenting alternate conclusions one could draw, that's all.

Unless I wrote it wrong, I wasn't saying that no reunion would happen. I just think the sale makes it less likely.

[bosk1]

I know.  I'm just offering up a different possible perspective.  What's the issue?

[Samsara]

I know.  I'm just offering up a different possible perspective.  What's the issue?

No issue bosk. Just didn't quite understand what you were saying.

[Samsara]

I hate to say I told you so, but:

http://bravewords.com/news/geoff-tate-says-queensryche-have-been-approached-for-reunion-tour-its-been-offered-and-it-hasnt-happened

Promoters see value in reunions and landmark albums. 2020 could have been a really cool one for fans of Queensryche's original lineup. Bummer. On a more serious note, sucks about Scott. And even worse if they are having legal issues (which I knew was going to happen).

[TAC]

I just read that. Pretty telling.

[ReaperKK]

Sad situation all around, would've been great if they gave it one last go as a group.

[bosk1]

I hate to say I told you so, but:

http://bravewords.com/news/geoff-tate-says-queensryche-have-been-approached-for-reunion-tour-its-been-offered-and-it-hasnt-happened

Promoters see value in reunions and landmark albums. 2020 could have been a really cool one for fans of Queensryche's original lineup. Bummer. On a more serious note, sucks about Scott. And even worse if they are having legal issues (which I knew was going to happen).

OK, but wait just a minute.  Even aside from the fact that I don't believe a word Tate says (which he has earned), the lack of detail in that Q&A is stunning.  The only thing he says is:

Greg: If the right promoter came around with the right offer, could you ever see all five for a summer?

Tate: “Well, that has happened already. It’s been offered, and it hasn’t happened.”

Greg: Did the phone ring, and was it actually discussed and knocked around at least?

Tate: “It was on my end, yeah.” 

Who called?  Who discussed it?  Was the "call" also made to the band?  Was it a legitimate and worthwhile offer?  Why hasn't it happened?  Did Geoff reject it?  Did anyone else?  Did Geoff impose impossible terms that the others couldn't live with?  There are FAR too many blanks that aren't filled in. 

I'm not defending the band and saying they didn't drop the ball.  But there is not nearly enough in that Q&A to go off of in terms of pointing fingers at anyone.

[KevShmev]

I agree with your take, bosk1.   Tate sure seems to know a lot about a guy who he himself said won't talk to him, so basically, he is basically spreading gossip about a former bandmate with whom he had a bad falling-out. Typical of what an asshole Tate is. No one should believe a word he says about anything.

[TAC]

I bet the "promoter" was Susan Tate.

[Samsara]

I bet the "promoter" was Susan Tate.

 

Yeah, I hear ya regarding what Tate says. But I believe him on this one. Why? Because $$$$$.

He wants cash, and he knows he could/would make more next year using the name. So he is putting a little public pressure out there to see if anyone in the qr camp takes the bait and discusses the offer(s) on the table.

There is always, always more value in a famous band reuniting and touring a legacy record. Always.

[bosk1]

There is always, always more value in a famous band reuniting and touring a legacy record. Always.

Absolutely.  But we don't know if there actually ARE any offers on the table.  All we have is his vague implication that there might be something that may somewhat resemble an offer that was allegedly made by some unidentified person to some other unidentified person(s) at some unidentified time with some unidentified terms. 

[Setlist Scotty]

All we have is his vague implication that there might be something that may somewhat resemble an offer that was allegedly made by some unidentified person to some other unidentified person(s) at some unidentified time with some unidentified terms.

Sounds pretty specific to me!   

[Grappler]

There is always, always more value in a famous band reuniting and touring a legacy record. Always.

Absolutely.  But we don't know if there actually ARE any offers on the table.  All we have is his vague implication that there might be something that may somewhat resemble an offer that was allegedly made by some unidentified person to some other unidentified person(s) at some unidentified time with some unidentified terms.

But do we ever really know what offers are made to bands until tours or shows are announced?  Not all the time.  I believe that a promoter did float the idea to Geoff and probably the band as well.  Geoff is obviously interested, the band likely shot it down.  The next step is to drop a tidbit to the public and see if it generates some interest.  Promoters may come back with better and bigger offers, especially knowing that Tate's doing his Empire thing and if they're seeing that fans want to see Geoff return.

Conception was completely defunct, Roy Khan was singing in Kamelot....and then in 2005, they played a few festival gigs, including Progpower.  Dangle a big enough carrot and musicians might have a hard time saying no.  Anthrax reunited with Joey that same year.  Dokken did a few gigs for a giant payday, despite those guys pretty much hating each other.  It's not unheard of.

[ProfessorPeart]

A reunion seems even more implausible based on what he said. Scott won't talk to Tater and now Scott also seems to be completely estranged from the band. Throw in the fact that DeGarmo will probably never come back.

Never gonna happen.

[Cruithne]

It's sad that Tate's muck raking about Scott, a man who he says isn't even talking to him, and I'm sure it's intentional that he's non-specific about the law suits to leave the implication out there that it's between Scott and QR when it could just as well be concerning other business interests and/or his (2nd) ex-wife.

Still, at least this puts to bed the rumours of Scott hooking up with Tate to play some shows.

[Setzer]

Still, at least this puts to bed the rumours of Scott hooking up with Tate to play some shows.

But that was totally going to happen!

[Samsara]

Still, at least this puts to bed the rumours of Scott hooking up with Tate to play some shows.

But that was totally going to happen!

No need to vaguely hurl insults. I was wrong. Not the first time, certainly not the last. For the record, I was told that AT THE TIME, they were speaking and looking to work together. I firmly believe that. I posted my opinion based on that, and as always, my writing style is straightforward and confident. Some people get all fired up and get their panties in a bind because of that. Too bad.  My guess is, whatever path Scott has allegedly and unfortunately gone down, happened AFTER that timeframe. But I don't know.

There is always, always more value in a famous band reuniting and touring a legacy record. Always.

Absolutely.  But we don't know if there actually ARE any offers on the table.  All we have is his vague implication that there might be something that may somewhat resemble an offer that was allegedly made by some unidentified person to some other unidentified person(s) at some unidentified time with some unidentified terms.

But do we ever really know what offers are made to bands until tours or shows are announced?  Not all the time.  I believe that a promoter did float the idea to Geoff and probably the band as well.  Geoff is obviously interested, the band likely shot it down.  The next step is to drop a tidbit to the public and see if it generates some interest.  Promoters may come back with better and bigger offers, especially knowing that Tate's doing his Empire thing and if they're seeing that fans want to see Geoff return.

Thank you, Grappler. Exactly my point. People are so anti-Tate, that very common and obvious things are denied and are thought of as implausible. Promoters approach artists ALL. THE. TIME. with offers of various things. Any promoter in hard rock/metal would be stupid not to send feelers out there seeing if there's an interest in a QR reunion featuring Empire. It makes TOTAL sense. You get a sense of the market, and you see if there is anything out there.

You better believe Dream Theater was approached by promoters to get the band who recorded Images and Words together to celebrate it. It was likely turned down, but we generally never know of those things unless the musicians themselves say something. In this case, Tate (and I assume, the band) was approached (according to Tate), and he chose to reveal that. As Grappler said, if it gains traction and a bigger offer pops up, then perhaps that pressure moves the needle. Perhaps not.

But to deny common music business practice because "oh, its Tate, he can't be trusted," is foolhardy. LOL.

Offers like this, to tons of legacy bands with landmark records happen ALL the time.

[TAC]

Offers like this, to tons of legacy bands with landmark records happen ALL the time.

Which is evident as how many bands are playing old albums whole.

[bosk1]

But to deny common music business practice because "oh, its Tate, he can't be trusted," is foolhardy.

I generally am anti-Tate.  And, no, I do not trust him.  Sorry, but his track record has not earned him any trust, and part of that is his (very limited) track record with me. 

But your above statement is not accurate at all, either.  I am not denying common practice.  You posted a link and pretty much said that that confirms your suspicion that the band was approached.  It doesn't.  He never says anything of the kind.  So my point, again, is that you are wrong that Tate confirmed what you had earlier speculated about.  And I will also say again that I would not be surprised if your speculation turned out to be right and the band had in fact been approached and dropped the ball.  That is very much in the realm of possible.  But as of right now, there is no actual evidence of that.

[Lethean]

I find it interesting that we're even talking about the band dropping the ball here though.  Maybe the band just doesn't want to have anything to do with him.  Maybe they didn't like being spit on.  And even though some fans might want to see a reunion, I don't think them refusing is them dropping the ball.  Especially given the things he's been saying in interviews - maybe it's seemed to some that he's totally changed but perhaps now his true colors are surfacing again?  Personally, I'll have more respect for them if they don't work with him again.  If the money is just too good to pass up, so be it, I get it.

[Grappler]

But to deny common music business practice because "oh, its Tate, he can't be trusted," is foolhardy.

I generally am anti-Tate.  And, no, I do not trust him.  Sorry, but his track record has not earned him any trust, and part of that is his (very limited) track record with me. 

But your above statement is not accurate at all, either.  I am not denying common practice.  You posted a link and pretty much said that that confirms your suspicion that the band was approached.  It doesn't.  He never says anything of the kind.  So my point, again, is that you are wrong that Tate confirmed what you had earlier speculated about.  And I will also say again that I would not be surprised if your speculation turned out to be right and the band had in fact been approached and dropped the ball.  That is very much in the realm of possible.  But as of right now, there is no actual evidence of that.

I don't think you need evidence.  There's Queensryche.  And there's Geoff Tate.  Two parties to this equation.  Doesn't it make sense that if a promoter contacted Geoff, he also likely contacted the band?  You can't have a reunion if you only contact one party.   Of course, the band's not going to share that info because they're fully behind Todd .  So you're not going to see any "evidence," but it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together. 

[bosk1]

You need 2 and 2 to put them together, and you don't have that.  Again, it's pure speculation.

[Grappler]

You need 2 and 2 to put them together, and you don't have that.  Again, it's pure speculation.

Speculating is someone one does on a message board, right?  I don't see how you can say that if there was a legitimate offer from a promoter, that they would ONLY call Geoff.  They'd have to contact the band as well and there is reason to believe that they did and the band said No.  End of story.  Geoff can't reunite with Queensryche if they don't call the band and say "would you reunite for X amount of money?"  It's wheeling and dealing.

There's a great story from Glenn at Progpower about how he put together the PPIII lineup - the US debuts of Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray and Edguy.  He lied his ass off to all of the bands.  He had offers out to all three, with no response.  He told one band that he had Blind Guardian (or Gamma Ray) even though they weren't booked.  They said "holy shit, you booked them?" and they then felt like it was a legit festival, despite being in its third year.  All of the bands fell in line and accepted the gig, simply because he was wheeling and dealing with their agents.  What did he have to lose?  After that year, the festival's reputation started growing. 

Any promoter could do the same with QR.  Call the band and say "Hey, Geoff's in.  Are you?"  All it takes is getting them to the table to hammer something out, and money and fan interest can do it.  Hell, Iced Earth fired Ripper Owens in part due to the fans saying "we want Matt Barlow back," combined with some other elements.  If the fans want it and promoters can sense it, there's traction there to make a buck.

Even if Geoff is full of shit in this instance, and no legitimate offer was made, he's getting the idea out there.  As we all saw with Dokken, once a promoter puts enough zeroes behind a number, it becomes very hard to resist.  Those guys did their gigs, took the money and Don went back to his prior band lineup for future Dokken shows.

QR could do the same.  Then it's up to Todd to take one on the chin and let the band have their fun and then rejoin them after the reunion, or pull a John Bush and walk away because the band didn't stand behind him.

[pg1067]

My point in mentioning any sort of reunion was to point out that if Chris had intended to reunite with QR, it would have, IMO, been better to wait to sell off the publishing to the songs from Empire and Mindcrime, because a reunion would give those songs a larger boost, and thereby give him a bit more leverage in whatever negotiations he held with Sony when coming to a financial figure for the sale (potentially, Chris could have gotten more than whatever he received). But it is a moot point now, because the sale is done, which, at least to me, could possibly be an indication that he's moved on from any sort of reunion possibility.

I don't completely disagree, and I obviously am also speculating, but here's a counter-point to consider:  Maybe CDG was looking to get out from under those falling publishing numbers anyway, but Sony couldn't or wouldn't offer him enough to make it worthwhile.  But if Chris were to promise a reunion tour, that would provide a potential bump in income from those publishing rights, and perhaps would have given Sony incentive to offer just a bit more that would have put the offer into the "sweet spot" you mentioned to where it is worth it for both parties to do the deal.

Obviously everyone has their circumstances, but for the life of me I can't image selling my publishing.  Taking the lump sum is sort of penny-wise and pound foolish absent some other determining factors.   It's an annuity.   All you have to have is one song hit it on a soundtrack or something, and bammo, the numbers are radically different.

Eh...  You can't really paint with a broad brush here.

I once represented an artist who had a couple monster hits and multi-platinum albums in the latter half of the 90s.  About 10 years later, the principle songwriter sold publishing rights (similar to what Downing and DeGarmo) did.  The songs were still generating royalties, but the substantial lump-sum received made far more sense for the writer.  I'm sure DeGarmo's deal was for a lower sum, but it may very well have made sense for him.  It's sort of like winning the lottery:  do you want the lump sum or the payout over time?

[bosk1]

You need 2 and 2 to put them together, and you don't have that.  Again, it's pure speculation.

Speculating is someone one does on a message board, right?  I don't see how you can say that if there was a legitimate offer from a promoter, that they would ONLY call Geoff. 

Good, because I did NOT say that.  You are completely missing the point.  Yes, speculation is fine.  And as I've said, I think speculating that this might have occurred seems more likely than not.  But that has nothing to do with this conversation.  This conversation was about Geoff's comment and whether it proved (not speculation--proof) that the band was approached.  It doesn't.  End of story.  You can speculate all you want.  That's fine.  But what you cannot do is perpetuate rumors that there is no supporting evidence for.  This is a discussion forum, not a gossip rag.  "Happened" and "might have happened" are not the same thing.

[Kwyjibo]

I find it interesting that we're even talking about the band dropping the ball here though.  Maybe the band just doesn't want to have anything to do with him.  Maybe they didn't like being spit on.  And even though some fans might want to see a reunion, I don't think them refusing is them dropping the ball.  Especially given the things he's been saying in interviews - maybe it's seemed to some that he's totally changed but perhaps now his true colors are surfacing again?  Personally, I'll have more respect for them if they don't work with him again.  If the money is just too good to pass up, so be it, I get it.

Bolded part is how I feel.

Tate is behaving like shit and the band (maybe) refusing to do something with him is not dropping the ball but normal human behaviour.

[Grappler]

I find it interesting that we're even talking about the band dropping the ball here though.  Maybe the band just doesn't want to have anything to do with him.  Maybe they didn't like being spit on.  And even though some fans might want to see a reunion, I don't think them refusing is them dropping the ball.  Especially given the things he's been saying in interviews - maybe it's seemed to some that he's totally changed but perhaps now his true colors are surfacing again?  Personally, I'll have more respect for them if they don't work with him again.  If the money is just too good to pass up, so be it, I get it.

Bolded part is how I feel.

Tate is behaving like shit and the band (maybe) refusing to do something with him is not dropping the ball but normal human behaviour.

Nobody's excusing Tate's behavior.  Money makes people do things that they might not ordinarily do.  Look at all of the bands throughout history - the acrimony in Fleetwood Mac - people are in and out of that band all the time.  People break up, make up, continue artistic partnerships and so on because they're being paid well to do it.  By the time Motley Crue ended, some of those guys didn't get along on a personal level, but they put their shit aside for 2 hours a night so they could play shows. 

That's what we're saying.  Tate and the band don't have to be best friends to work together again, especially if it's just a tour.  In this instance, I believe that the band probably turned down an offer to reunite with Geoff.  But if there is public interest and the offers get better and better, maybe they won't be so quick to dismiss the idea. 

Personally, I think the band dropped the ball a long time ago when they decided to primarily play these stupid fly-in gigs and not reinvent themselves as a progressive/metal band again.  They went all-in on nostalgia and it took them 7 years to decide to play a set featuring mostly new material with Todd.  It's not what I wanted from them...I figured the nostalgia factor was fueled by Tate's wife managing them, but it continued on after they were gone.

[Kwyjibo]

In an ideal world I want my favorite artists to do their music because they feel that that is their calling and their passion. And in that ideal world a band turns down an offer to reunite just for the sake of making money with a member who's been shit-talking and shit-doing for a long time.

And we're not in an ideal world and people do almost everything for money, I know that. But I still applaud them if they want nothing to do with Tate as long as it's only about reuniting for financial purposes. And I'm aware that they may still cave in if the price is right. But one can dream of that ideal world. 

[Cruithne]

That's what we're saying.  Tate and the band don't have to be best friends to work together again, especially if it's just a tour.  In this instance, I believe that the band probably turned down an offer to reunite with Geoff.  But if there is public interest and the offers get better and better, maybe they won't be so quick to dismiss the idea.

But QR are an ongoing concern with TLT and Parker Lundgren. If they reunite they're almost certainly calling time on at least TLT's tenure and possibly Parker's too. After any tour reuniting them the career of QR will likely be stranded unless it's anything involving the reunited lineup and I can't imagine them coming out of such a tour on any better terms with Tate than they were previously.

If it's not the original 5 guys, and DeGarmo hasn't shown any interest whatsoever in playing music for a living in a very long time, then I don't see the money on offer being eye watering so why throw away an ongoing career, however limited compared to its prior glories, for a short lived decent payday to tour with a certifiable cunt?

The whole reuniting thing doesn't make any sense from where I'm sitting. Certainly not whilst they're not close to retiring QR for good.

[EPICVIEW]

I love drama!!!
But lets face it QR is GARBAGE without Tate and truly nobody cares about this very bad Tribute band called QR.
Tate may not be an angel but he carried them and from what I read he and his family were "attacked and fired" in a terribly unprofessional way. I dont sense any dignity in the other guys Tate had to work with as they appeared to be lazy and always just in it for a paycheck.  Tate to me is a human who reacted and to me he was the only face of the band and without him there is zero draw or interest period.  I laugh at how others paint it so one sided as in any band of 30 years nobody is an angel or innocent.  I tried to listen to the new QR CD and HATE IT, I personally dont like it and do NOT like the new singer at all and find their new shows horrible and nowhere near the quality of when Tate was in the band and of course Chris De Garmo.
This band to me is only a odd story but offer nothing musically of interest without Tates quirky and great stage show and I do like Tates voice a lot period and at his age he sounds amazing . its like JP without Rob or Maiden without Bruce   VH without DLR, etc etc... Wilton is not very good either and the other fill in is totally forgettable, now with Scott the drummer gone with his terrible divorce taking its mental toll on him its all very bad,  to me Tate should never go back and to me Tates shows scratch the true QR itch enough at this point in time and I dont want them to get back as the whole show was always Tate period once Chris left and took his amazing leads and solos with him and Chris was the higher register many times Tate would harmonize with ... I think its time to change the QR name or retire the name  and enjoy their past glory like many bands.

[NoseofNicko]

Sounds to me like someone is extremely biased...

[EPICVIEW]

me?  I just simply dont find anything interesting in the QR Tribute band  .. I dont ever feel its QR.
it was to me like when DLR left VH.. the solo DLR for some reason felt more VH than the Sammy stuff.
Im not a huge fan of them anyway but love the drama