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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: AndyDT on April 29, 2009, 02:02:19 PM
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I was thinking a couple of weeks ago about what happened to QR. The first album I bought was Live Evolution and the first CD was amazing with epic, atmospheric, emotional songs. Then I started buying the studio albums and noticed that the later ones past Mindcrime just lost this feel apart from the occasional song.
It's almost like they lost the will to impress and have been denying this for all this time. I'm no big fan of him but it made me think they need someone doing like Gordon Ramsay does on Kitchen Nightmares where he forces them to face up to the situation and get over their pride. Just the kick in the backside approach basically.
Maybe that's unfair but sometimes it's like the band and the music takes a back seat to the songs message which isn't what appeals personally. Sign of the Times for example I thought was very disappointing. Some of the operatic vocal melodies on Live Evolution for me even set the album up for the second CD of slower less epic songs. At the time I didn't realise they were all the later songs. if I wanted something with minimal music there's always pop.
EDIT by bosk1: Thread title edited to reflect the big announcement about Geoff Tate being replaced, as reported by Billboard 6/20/12
EDIT2 by bosk1: Official post regarding the outcome of the lawsuit and status of the band moving forward: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=263.msg1803595#msg1803595
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I was thinking a couple of weeks ago about what happened to QR.
Haven't we all!
Most QR fans consider Promised Land as the last decent thing they did. Me, I think it was Empire. They really fell off the face of the earth, musically. You can pick a few songs off of each album since, and there are some good ones, but overall, it's pretty bad. American Soldier isn't bad, in fact, it's much better than anything they've released in a very long time. Still, it's a far cry to what made them really good.
We just have to face it. Queensryche is gone and they're never coming back!
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bosk1 asked me to repost my review (which is on Amazon.com as the lead review, if any of you would be kind enough again to vote for it as helpful!).
Here it is:
Queensr˙che
American Soldier
Rhino/Atco (2009)
Queensr˙che has had quite a roller coaster ride over the past decade. From 1999-2009, the band featured three different sets of songwriters before settling in with producer/songwriter Jason Slater in 2006 for Operation: Mindcrime II. With Slater back for round two with lead singer Geoff Tate and company, Queensr˙che has clearly found its creative legs on American Soldier, a concept record detailing the experiences of United States servicemen and women.
Starting with the “on your feet!” call of a boot camp drill instructor in “Sliver,” American Soldier takes the listener on a unique journey of hard rock bombardment. Featuring a plethora of heavy riffing throughout the album, particularly on the rockers “Man Down!” and “Unafraid,” American Soldier embraces Queensr˙che’s heavier roots, without forgetting the epic side of the band.
”At 30,000 Ft.,” a track written from the point of view of a bomber pilot will remind fans of the grand “Anybody Listening?” off of 1990’s Empire, whereas the moody “A Dead Man’s Words” is reminiscent of the song “Promised Land.” In fact, in a nutshell, American Soldier feels like a hybrid between the darkness of 1994’s Promised Land with a good injection of modern musical angst.
American Soldier was written primarily by producer Slater (with Tate responsible for lyrics), although former Queensr˙che axeman and producer Kelly Gray (Q2k, Live Evolution) contributed some tracks (“Hundred Mile Stare” and the aforementioned “Man Down!”). Additionally, Gray’s other band, Slave to the System, which features Queensr˙che drummer Scott Rockenfield and Brother Cane frontman/guitarist Damon Johnson, also contributed two songs – the battle haze-influenced “Middle of Hell” (featuring Tate on saxophone dueling with Wilton on guitar) and the touching father-daughter ballad (sung by Tate and his daughter, Emily), “Home Again.”
Tate (saxophone), Wilton (guitars), Rockenfield (drums) and bassist Eddie Jackson deliver dynamic musical performances, arguably their strongest in 15 years. From Rockenfield’s military cadence beat behind Wilton’s solo in the emotionally-charged “The Killer,” to Jackson’s thundering groove throughout American Soldier, the band play more cohesively than they have in years, distinctively Queensr˙che, yet modern and relevant despite being around for 28 years.
Most fans of Queensr˙che would probably agree Tate is at his best when he is inspired and writes to a theme, and that holds true with American Soldier. Crafted from the stories of soldiers (including Tate’s own father), the best of Geoff Tate is on display, telling emotional stories from a number of different perspectives and delivering them with conviction.
The unique factor, however, is that Tate takes care not to inject much of his own opinion, giving the listener true first-hand feel of the emotions soldiers experience in conflict. Throw in various interview clips from soldiers Tate spoke with entwining with the songs, and the emotional impact of American Soldier is undeniable.
So what’s the downside? While the record features great instrumentation, including classic guitar solos by Wilton, the trademark vocals of Tate are always the first thing that people notice. Tate’s delivery on American Soldier is up and down. At times, Tate sounds thin and straining (sections of “Sliver,” “Hundred Mile Stare,” and very noticeably on the lead single, “If I Were King”). Then on other songs, Tate sounds strong and melodic like most fans remember, particularly on the chorus of “Unafraid,” and again on “At 30,000 Ft.” and “A Dead Man’s Words.”
Further, while the soldier interview clips spliced through the record provide a necessary realism they also have a tendency to derail things. For example, “Unafraid” features interview clips serving as the actual verses to the song. Yes, you read that right. Tate wrote no lyrics, except for the chorus. It works artistically in the concept, but from a standalone song perspective, the chorus of the song screams “anthem” and “radio hit,” but the eclectic decision to not have lyrics in the verses likely stifles that chance of taking the song to another level.
Additionally, American Soldier tends to lose some steam the last three tracks, with three acoustically-tinged ballads in a row. The closer, “The Voice” reminds one of Led Zeppelin’s “Kashmir” at points, and is a step up from the previous two cuts (“Remember Me” and “Home Again”). But the darker, intense, vibe of the album is lifted for a more serene stroll to the finish line, which disrupts the flow.
Despite those minor criticisms, the writers and performers of Queensr˙che’s American Soldier should take a bow. For those that abandoned the band after guitarist and songwriter Chris DeGarmo split in the late 1990s, the classic vibe of Queensr˙che is back, particularly for those fans that enjoyed the band’s moodier material.
The members of Queensr˙che may be on record as not liking the term “thinking man’s metal,” when describing their music, but the complimentary term fits American Soldier perfectly. The record provides an authentic musical backdrop to the lives of soldiers in the United States and around the world, yet firmly maintains the band’s place as a force to be reckoned with in the hierarchy of hard rock bands today.
Key tracks:
“At 30,000 Ft.”
“A Dead Man’s Words”
“Man Down!”
“The Killer”
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Sam, I knew it wouldn't take you long to find this thread! :D
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Sam, I knew it wouldn't take you long to find this thread! :D
Actually, bosk1 e-mailed me. LOL
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Yes, but I meant responding in this thread and posting the review to be two separate things. The review should go in the reviews section. (not that it can't be posted here as well)
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Yes, but I meant responding in this thread and posting the review to be two separate things. The review should go in the reviews section. (not that it can't be posted here as well)
You didn't specify!!!! Will do.
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I assume you were so dazzled by my spiffy theme that you just weren't thinking straight. ;)
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You know, it is kinda annoying when I phase out for a moment, return, and then not remember whether I'm at DTF or The Breakdown Room. :lol
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I agree that Q2K and Tribe were pretty worthless, and that American Soldier leaves much to be desired. But I don't want to hear one bad thing about Operation Mindcrime II--that's one of the best things Queensryche has ever done.
I saw Queensryche live in Portland a couple weeks ago. It was incredible to finally hear "I Dream in Infrared," "I Will Remember," and "Hand on Heart" live, but I was heartbroken and annoyed that they didn't play "Della Brown" or "London" like they have for most of the shows this tour.
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But I don't want to hear one bad thing about Operation Mindcrime II--that's one of the best things Queensryche has ever done.
Wow, that's a...um...pretty "unconventional" opinion you have there.
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I'll jump in on the bandwagon of QR fans and say that they should've quit after PL. They had a few good songs after it but they were mostly confused songs as if they didn't know quite what to do with their time - try to be hip, try to appeal to the fans etc. For me the only album worth listening from start to finish is Tribe. It has a few songs on par with PL and some that are quite decent as well.
I don't know how popular Tate's solo album is among QR fans but I think it's amazing. Don't know why they don't go more in that kind of direction - great songs, great lyrics, beautiful and atmospheric vocal melodies.
That said, no matter how bad they get post-PL, nothing will change the legacy they've left before that. Especially if you look at the albums for what they were and how they sounded at the time of their release - way ahead of their time. It's easy now to say that they were something like an Iron Maiden with a twist (seen a lot of those opinions).
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But I don't want to hear one bad thing about Operation Mindcrime II--that's one of the best things Queensryche has ever done.
Wow, that's a...um...pretty "unconventional" opinion you have there.
Maybe he's only ever heard the first half of the album :lol
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But I don't want to hear one bad thing about Operation Mindcrime II--that's one of the best things Queensryche has ever done.
Wow, that's a...um...pretty "unconventional" opinion you have there.
Maybe he's only ever heard the first half of the album :lol
If I only heard the first 2/3rds, my opinion of the album would be much better. Although a very different album the quality of Mindcrime II is about par with American Soldier or Tribe up until that point, but the last third nose-dives it into mediocrity. Not to mention the guitar tones on Tribe and American Soldier are a billion times better.
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I think part of it is Jason Slater. The writing has been much more frenetic since he became the man and I don't think that's a good fit. Queensryche is better when they're melodic, I think. Wilton and Jackson don't write much any more and I think that's a problem. They have a better grasp than Slater.
As for MC2, the same rule applies. The melodic songs are pretty good. The hyperactive ones don't do much for me. I'll also point out that when I saw them in Cali, All the Promises might have been the highlight of a seriously kick ass show.
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But I don't want to hear one bad thing about Operation Mindcrime II--that's one of the best things Queensryche has ever done.
Wow, that's a...um...pretty "unconventional" opinion you have there.
:lol
Seriously!
That said, no matter how bad they get post-PL Empire, nothing will change the legacy they've left before that. Especially if you look at the albums for what they were and how they sounded at the time of their release - way ahead of their time. It's easy now to say that they were something like an Iron Maiden with a twist (seen a lot of those opinions).
Ab, very well put.
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QR should have quit after PL. I think Tribe had them going in the right direction. Had DeGarmo stayed through the process, finished Justified and added it to the record, and had Hostage been done and on the record as intended, you have a pretty strong release (and adding those songs, they would have eliminated "Losing Myshit" off the record, since Stone would not have been involved).
You add to that the solos that would have been added as well, and you have a much, MUCH better record.
To me, it is undeniable that you have two different eras in Ryche history. With DeGarmo, and without DeGarmo. The latter has some fine moments, but since the core music writer is different, it is understandably not the same.
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I don't disagree, in general. But I am glad they didn't go so far as to call it quits. There has still been some very good musical output without Chris. But sad that the really strong songs were fewer and farther in between. Up through HITNF, you had albums that were strong from start to finish with maybe a weak track or two. Now, for the most part, I feel that the albums have about 1/3 strong tracks, 1/3 mediocre tracks, and 1/3 weak tracks. AS is probably the exception to that pattern where, to me, there aren't many really super-standout, shining star tracks, but the album is consistently "very good" from start to finish.
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I feel that the albums have about 1/3 strong tracks, 1/3 mediocre tracks, and 1/3 weak tracks.
Pretty much describes EVERY (not just QR) album out there!
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It certainly describes a lot. But what I really liked about CGD-era Queensryche is that you could pretty much bank on getting albums that well exceeded the norm. And I have to say that the bands I like and listen to the most nowadays similarly tend to fall into that same category of consistently putting out albums that are consistently good from start to finish with the good material far outweighing combined mediocre and weak (e.g. Dream Theater, Neal Morse, Within Temptation).
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It certainly describes a lot. But what I really liked about CGD-era Queensryche is that you could pretty much bank on getting albums that well exceeded the norm. And I have to say that the bands I like and listen to the most nowadays similarly tend to fall into that same category of consistently putting out albums that are consistently good from start to finish with the good material far outweighing combined mediocre and weak (e.g. Dream Theater, Neal Morse, Within Temptation).
Chris GeDarmo? :P
I feel that the albums have about 1/3 strong tracks, 1/3 mediocre tracks, and 1/3 weak tracks.
Pretty much describes EVERY (not just QR) album out there!
I have to disagree here as it applies to QR's albums from their EP - PL. Almost everything on these albums were at least strong to awesome. I can pick out very few weaknesses during this era.
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I feel that the albums have about 1/3 strong tracks, 1/3 mediocre tracks, and 1/3 weak tracks.
Pretty much describes EVERY (not just QR) album out there!
No really, plenty that go way above that description and plenty that fall far below.
And yeah, the DeGarmo years, Hear in the Now excluded, is pure excellence, a run of albums that will be nearly impossible for any band to match.
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I was thinking a couple of weeks ago about what happened to QR.
Haven't we all!
Most QR fans consider Promised Land as the last decent thing they did. Me, I think it was Empire. They really fell off the face of the earth, musically. You can pick a few songs off of each album since, and there are some good ones, but overall, it's pretty bad. American Soldier isn't bad, in fact, it's much better than anything they've released in a very long time. Still, it's a far cry to what made them really good.
We just have to face it. Queensryche is gone and they're never coming back!
^agreed^
since Tate took over all creativity the band has sucked.
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I was just making a general observation that most albums have they typical 3 great songs, 3 OK ones and 3 sucky ones. I wasn't talking specifically to Queensryche. It is a generalization, not a fact for all.
There are surely classics that do not fall into this, but there is truth in the "Bell Curve".
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I like the song with his daughter on it and a couple more but don't think the "vibe" is back at all. QR to me were best with that atmospheric, epic sound e.g. walk in the shadows, dream in infrared, take hold, eyes of a stranger. I'll keep listening to the latest album to see if my mind changes though.
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I was just making a general observation that most albums have they typical 3 great songs, 3 OK ones and 3 sucky ones. I wasn't talking specifically to Queensryche. It is a generalization, not a fact for all.
There are surely classics that do not fall into this, but there is truth in the "Bell Curve".
:lol Sorry, didn't mean to misconstrue your words. I just saw a good opportunity to point out the fact that I detect no "sucky" songs on albums like The Warning and Rage For Order (let alone any "mediocre" ones).
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I love this band. My favorite album by them is, by far, Promised Land (also one of my favorite albums of all time). So dark and abstract and proggy and rocking.
Obviously can't go wrong with Mindcrime or Rage For Order either ;)
I need to check out American Soldier - I refuse to check out their other post-Promised Land stuff though, especially since I once had an encounter with Mindcrime II and it nearly killed me (though "The Chase" is pretty cool)
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But I don't want to hear one bad thing about Operation Mindcrime II--that's one of the best things Queensryche has ever done.
Wow, that's a...um...pretty "unconventional" opinion you have there.
No kidding. I think I once referred to MCII as a 'bastard child'. It pains me to listen to (most of) it. Right up there with Bat out of Hell III as a pathetic attempt to recreate the magic of it's predecessor (referring to Bat out of Hell, not the second one).
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QR should have quit after PL. I think Tribe had them going in the right direction. Had DeGarmo stayed through the process, finished Justified and added it to the record, and had Hostage been done and on the record as intended, you have a pretty strong release (and adding those songs, they would have eliminated "Losing Myshit" off the record, since Stone would not have been involved).
You add to that the solos that would have been added as well, and you have a much, MUCH better record.
To me, it is undeniable that you have two different eras in Ryche history. With DeGarmo, and without DeGarmo. The latter has some fine moments, but since the core music writer is different, it is understandably not the same.
Wow, I had no idea you felt the same way as me. The two eras are definitely not the same and I liked the DeGarmo era much better.
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I have to say, I always find it strange when people talk about post-Mindcrime Queensryche. I mean, ok the style changed slightly, but I think they got even better for a couple of albums as they were trying something a bit different and interesting but still really high quality. Promised Land followed by Empire are my favourite QR albums.
However, I agree that after that, things started going downhill. I really like Tribe a lot and I think American Soldier is also a really really good album, but the rest I'm not all that interested in, except a few songs here and there.
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Most people (myself included) will agree that Empire and Promised land are also of very high quality. It's just the albums after PL where the band went WAYYY downhill.
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Am I the only one here that does not "get" Promised Land??
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Am I the only one here that does not "get" Promised Land??
:lol Time to get with the program!
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I feel that the albums have about 1/3 strong tracks, 1/3 mediocre tracks, and 1/3 weak tracks.
Pretty much describes EVERY (not just QR) album out there!
No really, plenty that go way above that description and plenty that fall far below.
And yeah, the DeGarmo years, Hear in the Now excluded, is pure excellence, a run of albums that will be nearly impossible for any band to match.
I don't know Nick. Mabye I'm one of the few who love Hear in the Now Frontier. Degarmo made this band Great. Melodic and had GREAT harmonies.
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No, you're not the only one. HITNF is a spectacularly good album. But, yeah, otherwise, Nick's statement is valid.
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Why do you say that? Do you prefer it to the original QR style?
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It's just a very well-written and well-executed album that is consistently good from start to finish. And to me, Queensryche has always had an interesting character as a band in that they clearly blazed their own trails and had their own sound on one hand. But on the other, they also always seemed to simultaneously reflect and be influenced by whatever was relevant in the music world at the time of any given album without copying it. Given where music was going at the time, I think HITNF was the next logical step in the progression of their sound. It reflected a simpler, more stripped-down sound for Queensryche, but still retained a certain level of layering, depth, and complexity that imparted the long-standing Queensryche signature.
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I could never get over how many aeons it seems away from something like RageforOrder.
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Maybe I need to give HITNF some more spins. It's been forever and I was always of the opinion that it was the beginning of the end for QR, at least for me as a fan. PL was the last QR album I really liked. :-\
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It's just a very well-written and well-executed album that is consistently good from start to finish. And to me, Queensryche has always had an interesting character as a band in that they clearly blazed their own trails and had their own sound on one hand. But on the other, they also always seemed to simultaneously reflect and be influenced by whatever was relevant in the music world at the time of any given album without copying it. Given where music was going at the time, I think HITNF was the next logical step in the progression of their sound. It reflected a simpler, more stripped-down sound for Queensryche, but still retained a certain level of layering, depth, and complexity that imparted the long-standing Queensryche signature.
Bosk1 you couldn't have said it better.
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HITNF certainly has its good moments, and I certainly have no issues with it stylistically because that never really bothers me and I love when bands try something different. But I dunno, I just don't find it overall a very interesting listen. Different strokes I guess.
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HITNF certainly has its good moments, and I certainly have no issues with it stylistically because that never really bothers me and I love when bands try something different. But I dunno, I just don't find it overall a very interesting listen. Different strokes I guess.
I agree. I can certainly appreciate what they were trying to do. But the total lack of quality songs just really drags it down.
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I could never get over how many aeons it seems away from something like RageforOrder.
Although their was always this distinctivly Ryche flavor to it, I can't express enough the progression from the EP to Rage for Order, from Rage to Mindcrime, from Mindcrime to Empire, and from Empire to Promised Land. All of those albums (including the Warning which is a transition from EP to Rage for me) sound very much like Queensryche and maintain a level of excellence, in my opinion even with Chris DeGarmo Hear in the Now lost that Queensryche spark, and much more important is lost the excellence. It would be the first of several albums that lost their identity as Ryche albums and were really best held together by the unmistakable voice of Geoff Tate.
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Mindcrime always seems to stand out a mile with its guitar work (harmonies, solo, interesting riffs etc).
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I could never get over how many aeons it seems away from something like RageforOrder.
Although their was always this distinctivly Ryche flavor to it, I can't express enough the progression from the EP to Rage for Order, from Rage to Mindcrime, from Mindcrime to Empire, and from Empire to Promised Land. All of those albums (including the Warning which is a transition from EP to Rage for me) sound very much like Queensryche and maintain a level of excellence, in my opinion even with Chris DeGarmo Hear in the Now lost that Queensryche spark, and much more important is lost the excellence. It would be the first of several albums that lost their identity as Ryche albums and were really best held together by the unmistakable voice of Geoff Tate.
Excellent point. From the EP to PL, Queensryche progressed beautifully within the framework of their own sound.
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I just listened to Chasing Blue Sky. I had forgotten how goddamn amazing this song is. All I Want too. Good times.
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I just listened to Chasing Blue Sky. I had forgotten how goddamn amazing this song is. All I Want too. Good times.
:omg: Finally, someone else who likes that song! :metal
I need to have my own QR shirt made:
(https://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/bosk1/Queensryche/SttS.jpg)
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Who is singing on it, though? That's not Tate.
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It's DeGarmo. I kinda like it. It is a quirky song, but cool nonetheless, and I think his voice fits it.
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HITNF has a few good songs, but is generally inconsistent, and it sounds terrible. My goodness, I can never get over how flat the overall sounds is, especially the drums. Listen to a mix of QR songs on shuffle and you will really be able to tell how much worse songs from that record sound that everything else before it, even the 80s material, which has that, well, 80s sound to it. "The Voice Inside" and "Hero" are the two clear-cut standouts on that record. Songs like "Get a Life," "You" and "Saved" are just embarrassing.
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To my mind, they haven't done a metal album since 1988 with the possible exception of Mindcrime 2 and bits of Tribe.
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HITNF has a few good songs, but is generally inconsistent, and it sounds terrible. My goodness, I can never get over how flat the overall sounds is, especially the drums. Listen to a mix of QR songs on shuffle and you will really be able to tell how much worse songs from that record sound that everything else before it, even the 80s material, which has that, well, 80s sound to it. "The Voice Inside" and "Hero" are the two clear-cut standouts on that record. Songs like "Get a Life," "You" and "Saved" are just embarrassing.
KevShmev I like this album, Yes it was influenced by the "Dry Sound" erea but I like that they we're streching themselves. It's much better than Q2K and OM2.
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HITNF
KevShmev I like this album, Yes it was influenced by the "Dry Sound" erea but I like that they we're streching themselves. It's much better than Q2K and OM2.
Well, sure, but that is like saying that getting kicked in the shins is better than being kicked in the balls. Neither is a very appealing option. :lol
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(https://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/15/l_84c1081f7a454d36bc9eaf68829e163c.jpg)
What the fudge? :huh:
https://www.queensryche.com/2009/10/11/queensryche-cabaret/
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lol
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Wow?
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Some related comments over yonder on the MP forum.
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2426666.aspx
This has Susan written all over it. QR and Cabaret? Really?
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If you really want discussion on that ridiculous event, go to the biggest forum of QR fans (that don't kiss the band's ass) online:
https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=1603.0
The Breakdown Room (AnybodyListening.net's forum).
bosk1 is a mod. Be afraid. Very afraid.
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bosk1 is a mod. Be afraid. Very afraid.
Who?
In any case the Nick person posting in the thread over at your site is a total tool.
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bosk1 is a mod. Be afraid. Very afraid.
Who?
In any case the Nick person posting in the thread over at your site is a total tool.
He seems to have a thing for popes. Creepy.
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Direct from their website:
A fun-filled evening like no other full of freaks and shrieks.
Audience members will have an opportunity to participate… but prior written consent will be required as it won’t be for the faint of heart.
This is only a few miles from me (albeit not my favorite casino in the area). Tempted... so tempted...
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Direct from their website:
A fun-filled evening like no other full of freaks and shrieks.
Audience members will have an opportunity to participate… but prior written consent will be required as it won’t be for the faint of heart.
This is only a few miles from me (albeit not my favorite casino in the area). Tempted... so tempted...
Chris, you could go as the Official DTF reporter.
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Sorry if this is blasphemy, but really the ONLY QR album that truly stands out for me is obviously Operation Mindcrime
( Its one of the best prog-metal albums ever made though but thats not the point lol:P)
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Just when you thought the worst was over.... At this point, just bring on Zombie Queensryche.
"Ladies and gentleman and 'kids' of only adult ages, welcome to what promises to be the spectacle of all spectacles better known as the Queensr˙che Cabaret.
The Queensr˙che Cabaret — heralded as 'the first adults only rock show' (21 and over) — will be Teatro ZinZanni meets Cirque du Soleil with the band performing their hits and never-heard-before selections accompanied by go-go dancers, burlesque dancers, drag queens, a juggler, ballet dancer, trapeze artist, a contortionist and others. Definitely a fun-filled evening like no other full of freaks and shrieks!
"What good is sitting alone in your room? Come hear the music play!
"Those who attend the Queensr˙che Cabaret will have the option of just sitting back and enjoying the music and theatrics or actually being a part of the elaborate stage show! Prior written consent will be required as it won't be for the faint of heart... It'll be sights and sounds coming at you from all angles like never before!
"See some evil, hear some evil, speak some evil and have some fun.
"Life is a Queensr˙che Cabaret, old chum, come to the Cabaret!
"Request passes now! We're offering three types: Meet-and-Greets, Victim and 'On Stage'."
The dates are as follows:
Apr. 27 - Milwaukee, WI - Potawatomi Casino
Apr. 28 - Milwaukee, WI - Potawatomi Casino
May 20 - Phoenix, AZ - Sage Amphitheater
May 21 - San Diego, CA - 4th and B
May 22 - Palm Springs, CA - Agua Caliente
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:facepalm:
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Goddamnit, Geoff... really? REALLY?
They need to throw in the towel at this point... this is just so embarrassing.
As a side note, I'm listening to The Warning right now and wondering what Warning-era QR would have to say about this monstrosity.
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"Life is a Queensr˙che Cabaret, old chum!" :lol Really?
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I remember there was a thread about this not so long ago. I really like American Soldier (contrary to lots of reviews I've seen), but this is just a fucking disgrace.
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Fans should be allowed to pay extra for lap dances on stage while the band plays next to them.
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This is just such a contrast to the band's '80s image, when they had sort of a proletariat/revolutionary attitude in their lyrics. This sort of embarrassingly garish nonsense is just about the polar opposite.
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Excuse the language, but...
What. The. Fuck?
So done with this fake version of Queensryche.
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I'd go just for the "train wreck" aspect of it.
Notice how the Comments section is closed, I guess they were getting too many negative complaints about it.
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This is the look Devin Townsend gave when somebody had just explained the Queensryche cabaret tour to him (that comment is courtesy of a friend in an email earlier today):
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v394/kevshmev/Devin.jpg)
:lol :lol :lol :lol
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I thought they had finished all the cabaret nonsense...guess I was wrong.
:lol @ that pic.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92dyaxVaNo
Cool song. Shame about the train wreck.
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LOL @ Geoff's "ringmaster" costume in that vid.
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The sad thing is, the set list they played for that show was actually pretty cool. Had some Promised Land stuff on there, including the title track, and they played "Art of Life" from Tribe for the first time, which is a traditional, epic sort of tune.
But this damn cabaret thing is just incredibly pitiful.
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Just saw two interesting comments on the YouTube comments:
1) Would you believe if I told you in 1990 that Queensryche would do a cabaret in 20 years?
2) When inspiration ends...tits and ass begin.
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(Opinion parenthesis: RaO was very good, O:M was a masterpiece, Empire was very good, PL was very good, haven't heard HINTF, Q2K was VERY MEH, Tribe was good, OM2 was meh, don't care about TC and American Soldier was bad)
I just read here about the Queensr˙che Cabaret stuff. What the Fuck. WHAT THE FUCK!!!??? How can a cabaret be related to American Soldier tour? Why dancers and drag queens? Why Geoff is now bald? This is just ridiculous.
PD. My avatar was my actual expression when I saw this nonsense.
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The only Queensryche albums I had until last week were
Operation Mindcrime: Great
Empire: Good
Mindcrime II: Absolutely Terrible
I found Promised Land in a bargain bin over the weekend and decided to get it, but I was really disappointed. I thought I'd like it since Sam, Bosk, Nick, and some others here seem to think it's good. But I really can't get into how different it is.
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The only Queensryche albums I had until last week were
Operation Mindcrime: Great
Empire: Good
Mindcrime II: Absolutely Terrible
I found Promised Land in a bargain bin over the weekend and decided to get it, but I was really disappointed. I thought I'd like it since Sam, Bosk, Nick, and some others here seem to think it's good. But I really can't get into how different it is.
Along with O:M and Empire, I'd say Promised Land is one of their best albums.
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Yeah, Promised Land is probably my second favorite after O:M.
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Hm. I can't stand I Am I, but the album does seem to pick up later. Maybe I just need to give it more time.
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Promised Land is my favorite QR album. Definitely give it a few more chances.
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I stand firm in my opinion that Promised Land is QR's best album by a wide distance. In fact, it is probably one of my all-time favorite records; it would probably make my top 25 or 30. It did take some work, though, when I first got it. It was a bit odd the first few listenings, but then the light bulb went on, and it was like, holy crap, this is awesome.
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I stand firm in my opinion that Promised Land is QR's best album by a wide distance. In fact, it is probably one of my all-time favorite records; it would probably make my top 25 or 30. It did take some work, though, when I first got it. It was a bit odd the first few listenings, but then the light bulb went on, and it was like, holy crap, this is awesome.
Agreed. I know for me part of the reason is because, in my opinion, OM and Empire both sound too 80's (even though the latter was 1990) to be labeled as 'favorite.' They're both great records, don't get me wrong, but it's just personal preference about the sounds of different eras (Signals-era Rush is the same for me: great albums, but they'll never be my favorite ones). Promised Land sounded more modern and more fresh, yet somehow also darker and delightfully twisted. It also seems to be a more personal and emotionally moving album, at least to me.
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Promised Land is the only Queensryche album I still give time to (not saying their other older albums are bad, though). I love it dearly.
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Promised Land is the only Queensryche album I still give time too (not saying their other older albums are bad, though). I love it dearly.
And so it was that the Promised Land club began with its initial three members.....
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Promised Land is my favorite album of all-time. I have a framed full-length poster of the album cover right above the staircase in my apartment. The artwork is one of Hugh Syme's best in my opinion and is really brilliant. But I'll admit I don't listen to it all the time. It takes a certain mood. The lyrics are truly breathtaking and the sound has a dark beauty to it. It's like a whole album consisting of the dark vibe of DT's "Voices" and "Space-Dye Vest." Incidentally, Awake is my second favorite of all-time.
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I think that all bands havve that one album that, doesn't jump out at you but over time seems to be the one album you spin over and over. Promised Land is that album for Queensryche.
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I'm sorry, but I've tried. Promised Land was pretty much the end of the road for me with Queensryche. I will say that I did see that tour and it was one of the best concerts that I've ever been too, but the album still stinks to me. I like Damaged, Someone Else, and the title track isn't bad. And Out Of Mind was great live, but very lackuster in the studio version. But Bridge, Lady Jane, Disconnected....what is this crap?
I don't get it at all....and I WAS a huge Queensryche fan back in the day.
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Good to see others are on the Promised Land bandwagon. :)
I know many would argue that Operation: Mindcrime is far superior, as well as being their best record, but, while that is a damn fine record, too, PL is far more diverse, has better songwriting, tells a better story (I will take a introspective, personal story over a fairy tale about nuns, priests, and politics any day of the week), and flat-out sounds much better (O:M sounds very dated, while PL still sounds fresh). Don't get me wrong, O:M is a well-done concept album, but the themes told in PL are simply more appealing to this fan.
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Promised Land isn't that bad after all. If I could get over "I Am I," I'd like it a lot better.
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Promised Land isn't that bad after all. If I could get over "I Am I," I'd like it a lot better.
What don't you like about it? I don't have any issues with it.
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Promised Land isn't that bad after all. If I could get over "I Am I," I'd like it a lot better.
What don't you like about it?
It's a garbled mess.
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That, and I can't stand Tate.
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I think PL is a great album, but I'd still probably rate MC, RFO, and Warning above it.
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Unrelated, but I was listening to "Empire", and one thing that really bugs me about it is the awful math in the voice-overs.
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PC - I rank PL right behind Mindcrime. Look at things this way:
I tend to view Queensryche as the natural "middle ground" between Iron Maiden and Pink Floyd. If Mindcrime was Queensryche embracing its inner metal and Maiden-sound, then Promised Land is them giving Pink Floyd a bear hug.
The record had a much more atmospheric sound to it. The polar opposite of what Mindcrime was in sound. In fact, while the record is my second favorite Queensryche album, it took me awhile before I "got it." I was expecting another Mindcrime or Empire, and when I got hit with PL, other than "Damaged," I really didn't get it.
Then one day, I just said I'm going to relax, read the lyrics and listen to the album from end to end...and it hit me. The magnitude of what they were doing. It's almost autobiographical and in parts, it absolutely is, if you ask Tate. And the music just perfectly suits the emotion of what was going on in Tate's life (and some of the others) back then.
The song "Promised Land" is just a masterpiece, and is the crux of the theme. It starts with life and self-awakening, hits the middle age with the title track, and then at the end, one looks back over life not even believing that was him. Incredible record.
It gets better with time. But once it hits you, you'll sing its praises.
Some of the older metalheads (notice I said SOME) don't get it, and I can understand to a degree. Until that point, the lightest thing QR had done was Empire (the album). They were all metal, all the time until that record. So Promised Land ramps DOWN the aggressiveness (except on a few tracks) completely, so it can throw a fan who likes the aggressive QR material for a loop.
In the words of Geoff Tate (when he was still cool and not a parody of himself):
"My friends, the road to the promised land is a long one. Shall we...continue?"
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For some reason, I equate Promised Land with Rage For Order. I find that both are very similar in spirit... quite proggy and adventurous, with a great deal of variety. It's as if Queensryche hit some kind of crossroads with each of these 2 albums. RFO came right after the straight-forward heavy metal of The Warning, while PL came right after the radio-friendly metal of Empire.
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Promised Land is them giving Pink Floyd a bear hug.
Especially 'Out Of Mind.'
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For some reason, I equate Paradise Lost with Rage For Order.
lol
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Promised Land is them giving Pink Floyd a bear hug.
Especially 'Out Of Mind.'
yep, in particular, DeGarmo's guitar solo. The influence Gilmour had on him is on full display during that solo. One of Chris' best, IMO.
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For some reason, I equate Paradise Lost with Rage For Order.
lol
And I really enjoy that poem by John Milton -- Promised Land. That song where Satan talks about having a bad relationship with his dad is very moving.
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For some reason, I equate Paradise Lost with Rage For Order.
lol
Fixed :facepalm: lol-worthy
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Promised Land is an album that finds you. You need to be in the right frame of mind to fully absorb it's brilliance. Just hang on to it,
and when the time is right, you'll know, and it will open up a lot of doors in your mind.
Along with Rage For Order (my favorite album of all time...period) and Mindcrime, this is their best.
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I've only listened to Operation: Mindcrime (awesome album) and I'm judging from the last few posts I should go for Promised Land next?
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I've only listened to Operation: Mindcrime (awesome album) and I'm judging from the last few posts I should go for Promised Land next?
Empire is more similar to O:M but Promised Land is very good too.
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I've only listened to Operation: Mindcrime (awesome album) and I'm judging from the last few posts I should go for Promised Land next?
I would go for Empire next. Empire is full of hits and is so catchy. Promised Land is more of an acquired taste and takes some time.
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Yeah, a new fan should go with Empire and then either Warning or Rage for Order prior to Promised Land.
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Ok, I'll give Empire a listen and report back :D
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Ok, I'll give Empire a listen and report back :D
here would be the recommended listening after Mindcrime. I also put in some descriptive terms to help:
Empire (mainstream hard rock)
Rage for Order (prog metal beginnings)
Promised Land (think a heavier Pink Floyd)
The Warning (Iron Maiden with some more progressive leanings)
EP (Maiden/Priest)
Tribe (2000s-ish heavy riffing, some Tool influences as well, some acoustic-type strolls, modern hard rock/metal mixed with a more mid-tempo pace. Just skip over "Losing Myself" however, because that isn't a song written or recorded by the original lineup and doesn't fit the flow of the rest of the record.)
Hear in the Now Frontier - stripped down record. production and sound is very dry. Great guitar work, however. Just not metal at all. More hard rock than anything, but with a grunge-influenced sort of vibe.
Those are all the records from the original Queensryche lineup.
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Just whatever you do don't listen to Operation: Mindcrime II. :lol
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Just whatever you do don't listen to Operation: Mindcrime II. :lol
agreed. lol.
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No, go right ahead and listen to it. Just shut it off after Murderer and pretend it ends there.
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Yeah, that does make it a billion times better. Still not as good as anything Promised Land or prior, but it makes it somewhat respectable.
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No, go right ahead and listen to it. Just shut it off after Murderer and pretend it ends there.
No, it's much easier to pretend that "Fear City Slide" on repeat 14 times is actually the whole album.
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No, go right ahead and listen to it. Just shut it off after Murderer and pretend it ends there.
Yeah, it's really not bad aside from that last stretch of songs.
What's the consensus on American Soldier? I've yet to hear it.
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Let me make this easier:
ORIGINAL LINEUP ALBUMS (the lineup that actually wrote and recorded its own music)
EP
The Warning
Live in Tokyo (found on the remastered version of the EP)
Rage for Order
Operation: Mindcrime
Empire
Building Empires - DVD of live footage/videos, history of the band, good stuff.
Operation: LIVEcrime - historic live DVD/CD set.
Promised Land
Promised Land CD-Rom - old school CD-Rom video game released in 1996
Hear in the Now Frontier
Greatest Hits (various singles and a couple of b-sides from 1983-1997)
Tribe (minus the song "Losing Myself" which was a last-minute addition once DeGarmo left the band again)
Kelly Gray Era (DeGarmo's replacement, both as guitarist and major songwriter)
Q2k
Live Evolution - nice 1 DVD and 2 CD set...Kelly Gray is a bit tough, given his different way of playing CHris DeGarmo's parts, but still a quality DVD and live release overall.
Tateryche (Queensryche spearheaded by Geoff Tate, who uses producers/outside writers to write the music and then has the band record it)
Art of Live - horrible live album. Don't buy it, ever.
Operation: Mindcrime II
Mindcrime at the Moore - double DVD/CD set of both Mindcrime albums performed live, more in a Broadway style production
Take Cover - covers album...horrible vocals
American Soldier
As bosk1 has stated, if you pick up Mindcrime II, just from a musical standpoint, it's decent through "Murderer." No sense in listening after that. Complete trainwreck. "Fear City Slide" is pretty good as well, probably the only track worth a damn from the second half of that record.
American Soldier is pretty decent, but like Mindcrime II, it falls apart. In this case, it falls apart after the song "Man Down."
The thing you have to remember about Queensryche is, anything that is not the original lineup, tends to sound very different. The songwriting style found in QR's original lineup records really follows a path of musical evolution. The non-original lineup stuff sticks out a bit like a sore thumb, since a different person is writing the music...
Not because it is all BAD, but because the primary songwriter is different. In the original lineup, it was Chris DeGarmo and Michael Wilton writing most of the music, with Tate and DeGarmo doing lyrics and melodies.
In the non-original lineup stuff, Tate does ALL the lyrics and melodies, and the music is written by whatever writer is working with Tate. So it doesn't sound like a natural progression at all. Not always terrible, some stuff is very good, but it doesn't really sound like the same band, musically, for the most part.
After the original lineup, I'd recommend these SONGS:
Q2k
Howl
Liquid Sky
Right Side of My Mind
When the Rain Comes...
Breakdown
Sacred Ground
Operation: Mindcrime II
I'm American
The Hands
Hostage (this track actually was supposed to be for Tribe, and is the only song on Mindcrime II that does not have Jason Slater co-writing it -- the difference between the Tribe demo and this finished product is that court room drama sound effects were added, and Michael Wilton's original, fast-paced, ripping solo was replaced by this harmonized mid-tempo one, recorded by Mike Stone, which isn't nearly as good).
Murderer
Fear City Slide
One Foot in Hell
American Soldier
At 30,000 Ft.
A Dead Man's Words
The Killer
Man Down!
>>>>>>>>But my overall Queensryche recommendation is to buy all the original lineup stuff first, and if you want to continue, sample the other stuff and buy accordingly. Like I said, there is some good music on the non-original lineup Queensryche records...but it IS different, since the songwriter is completely different.
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I really like it, a step up from even the better parts of Mindcrime II.
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What's the consensus on American Soldier? I've yet to hear it.
I like it a lot. Strong album. Ironically, the only real problem I have with it is that Geoff's vocals on a couple of songs are subpar. Otherwise, to me, all the songs would rate up there with the strong and mid-quality songs from Tribe, and without any real clunkers whatsoever. Best complete album they've put out since Chris left the band, and that includes Tribe. Samsara has considerably soured on the album since it came out, so pay no mind to his slagging it off. ;)
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In fact, when it comes to Queensryche, if there was one person to disregard, it would probably be Samsara. :neverusethis:
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In fact, when it comes to Queensryche, if there was one person to disregard, it would probably be Samsara. :neverusethis:
Hopefully the person knows you're kidding. :)
My write-up above is pretty good to give anyone a good idea.
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Samsara has considerably soured on the album since it came out, so pay no mind to his slagging it off. ;)
Not true at all. I don't like it after Man Down! I stand by my opinion that it's a good album, up through Man Down! It doesn't sound like QUeensryche all the time, but just as a piece of music, it's good up until that point.
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Don't worry, anyone with over 100 posts on here knows what the tard emoticon means. :D
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Don't worry, anyone with over 100 posts on here knows what the tard emoticon means. :D
Oh, that's right, this emoticon, right?
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_113.jpg)
:rollin :P
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I actually was fine with American Soldier when I heard it the first time. The second and third times were complete crap. I will agree that the old QR stuff is incredible, though I've yet to pick up Promised Land, which seems to be one of everyone's favorites.
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Wow thanks for the detailed write up, that's really useful! :D
I've done some digging and turns out my brother has a lot of the albums from the original lineup so I'll be checking those out soon.
I listened to Empire earlier today and it sounds promising but it didn't grab me like Operation Mindcrime did. I'll have to give it another go though; I was busy trying to wrap my head round some chemistry so I wasn't paying much attention to the music. :P
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Wow thanks for the detailed write up, that's really useful! :D
I've done some digging and turns out my brother has a lot of the albums from the original lineup so I'll be checking those out soon.
I listened to Empire earlier today and it sounds promising but it didn't grab me like Operation Mindcrime did. I'll have to give it another go though; I was busy trying to wrap my head round some chemistry so I wasn't paying much attention to the music. :P
You're welcome. Enjoy discovering the original lineup. All those records have a lot to offer.
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I would say, unless you go bonkers over most of the material from the EP till PL, I wouldn't bother wasting your time with anything post-1994. And even then, I wouldn't waste your time.
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I know a lot of metalheads don't like HITNF, but I liked that they went for a stylistic change. Ithe album has good hooks.
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I know a lot of metalheads don't like HITNF, but I liked that they went for a stylistic change. Ithe album has good hooks.
It does, and it has a lot of really good guitar work. The album is not a favorite by any stretch, but it has some really good elements to it. It's just not a metal album. It's more hard rock with a stripped down/grungish flair...something most bands in 1995-1997 were doing. QR was a little late on that train, and frankly, should have never went THAT far. They stripped away what made them distinct.
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I know a lot of metalheads don't like HITNF, but I liked that they went for a stylistic change. Ithe album has good hooks.
It does, and it has a lot of really good guitar work. The album is not a favorite by any stretch, but it has some really good elements to it. It's just not a metal album. It's more hard rock with a stripped down/grungish flair...something most bands in 1995-1997 were doing. QR was a little late on that train, and frankly, should have never went THAT far. They stripped away what made them distinct.
Bands with longevity that aspire to stretch their limits do albums like HITNF, like DT or Rush. Let's be honest all bands are influenced by the times and most fans want a certain era of a band. For me, it's ok to swing and miss once in a while.
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I know a lot of metalheads don't like HITNF, but I liked that they went for a stylistic change. Ithe album has good hooks.
It does, and it has a lot of really good guitar work. The album is not a favorite by any stretch, but it has some really good elements to it. It's just not a metal album. It's more hard rock with a stripped down/grungish flair...something most bands in 1995-1997 were doing. QR was a little late on that train, and frankly, should have never went THAT far. They stripped away what made them distinct.
Bands with longevity that aspire to stretch their limits do albums like HITNF, like DT or Rush. Let's be honest all bands are influenced by the times and most fans want a certain era of a band. For me, it's ok to swing and miss once in a while.
Agreed. Unfortunately, other than Tribe (which was only really 3/4 of the way finished, since it was missing Hostage and Justified, and they slapped that dumb ass Losing Mycrap song on there by Stone), HITNF was one miss that snowballed into the band never being the same again.
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Well personally think that the snowball started when Chris DeGarmo left. He was the engine for the band. i remember seeing them for the first time opening for Kiss on the Animalize tour in 1984 and was BLOWN away and had to go out and by The Warning right away. Nobody sounded like them at the time.
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Well personally think that the snowball started when Chris DeGarmo left. He was the engine for the band. i remember seeing them for the first time opening for Kiss on the Animalize tour in 1984 and was BLOWN away and had to go out and by The Warning right away. Nobody sounded like them at the time.
Again, agreed. Chris leaving meant the band's sound left, as he was the one who did 90 percent of their song arrangements, at least half the riffs, and most of the harmonies. Not to mention, he wrote probably half the lyrics and did half the vocal melodies. He was as integral to Queensryche as John Petrucci is to Dream Theater. Without JP, DT wouldn't sound like DT.
But Chris was there for HITNF, and he was there for 2/3 of the Tribe sessions before things imploded.
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Hm. I think there's a tendency to overestimate what Queensryche would have put out had CD stayed. In my limited experience with the band, I pretty much consider O:M the peak with Empire-HITNF representing a slow but noticeable ongoing decline in quality. After CD leaves, the quality pretty much nose dives, and QR turns into a generic hard rock band with some metal/prog tendencies.
I think DeGarmo might have helped QR continue forging ahead, but judging by half of PL and most of HITNF, I'm not sure if the direction CD could have taken them would have been something I'd want to listen to. Though I can see how it'd definitely be better than what QR are putting out now... Now that outside studio musicians/songwriters write the band's music, I really doubt QR will put out anything that's not annoyingly generic again.
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PC, I see your point, but I have to disagree a bit.
As I said about HITNF earlier in the thread:
It's just a very well-written and well-executed album that is consistently good from start to finish. And to me, Queensryche has always had an interesting character as a band in that they clearly blazed their own trails and had their own sound on one hand. But on the other, they also always seemed to simultaneously reflect and be influenced by whatever was relevant in the music world at the time of any given album without copying it. Given where music was going at the time, I think HITNF was the next logical step in the progression of their sound. It reflected a simpler, more stripped-down sound for Queensryche, but still retained a certain level of layering, depth, and complexity that imparted the long-standing Queensryche signature.
There really is a lot more going on in that album than you pick up on at first glance, but a lot of it is subtle, understated, and vyer cleverly done. There is actually quite a bit of complexity to that album, but again, it's a very subtle and different kind of complexity compared to what the band had become known for doing.
In any case, regardless of what anyone happens to think of HITNF, I have two points:
1. The writing Chris did on Tribe, to me, showed that he still had quite a bit to offer in the writing department. There is a lot about that album that feels unfinished, and I think that can be attributed to the fact that (1) it was the first time they had written with Chris for a very long time, and (2) he left before it actually was finished, so a lot of ideas and the songs themselves did not actually have the opportunity to be fully-formed. Despite that, there are a lot of good things going on there.
2. Aside from just being a good writer, CDG brought something even more valuable to the table in QR that is missing: he had a knack for understanding others' ideas, even when they weren't fully fleshed out, and being able to synthesize them and help the band create something from lots of different ideas. Nobody else in the band has been able to do this, and it really shows. That is why they have had to have outside writers do a lot of their material and that is why, to me, they sound more like a band that is trying to mimic the QR formula instead of being the QR formula. After HITNF, they still had some shining moments, but they haven't really sounded like QR through and through, save for some moments on Tribe and maybe some parts of AS where Slater I think really has become better at pulling the real QR sound out of the band.
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I liked the idea behind HITNF and was happy to accept a stripped down album from such a grandiose sounding band. My problem is, that other than a few OK songs, it's just really not that good.
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I liked the idea behind HITNF and was happy to accept a stripped down album from such a grandiose sounding band. My problem is, that other than a few OK songs, it's just really not that good.
Agreed. It has a few songs I still enjoy from time to time, but the bulk of it is simply not very good. And I hate the sound of it; the drums sound so flat and lifeless.
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I'm listening to the song "Anybody Listening?" on YouTube right now. Wow, I forgot how good that song is. That song "is" Queensryche. That's a band clicking on all cylinders - lyrically, musically, style, everything.
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I liked the idea behind HITNF and was happy to accept a stripped down album from such a grandiose sounding band. My problem is, that other than a few OK songs, it's just really not that good.
I agree with this as well. bosk brings up a good point about HITNF as well, that things are there, but done in an understated way, very much by design.
But overall, while it does have some tunes I really enjoy a lot - spOOL, Hit the Black, The Voice Inside, Hero - there are more tunes on there that have PARTS I enjoy, but as a whole, the full song falls flat (Sign of the Times, Reach, You, Saved, etc.)
I would disagree with PC that Queensryche's peak was Mindcrime. I think the album is their best, yes. But from a creative standpoint, they had a "peak cycle" of Mindcrime-Empire-PL that is almost unmatched in succession, by most bands. Those three albums represent what Queensryche is as a band...a band that incorporates metal, mainstream had rock, and more atmospheric/progressive rock, all into one sound...and does it VERY well.
I think if you gave someone Mindcrime and said "this is Queensryche," it would be a serious mistake. You really would need to give them all three of those records I mentioned, because they sum up the entirety of what IS Queensryche, to the fullest extent.
Mindcrime is one peak, but Queensryche had three peaks...each touching upon the different facets of their sound.
Anyway, interesting conversation. :)
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I'm listening to the song "Anybody Listening?" on YouTube right now. Wow, I forgot how good that song is. That song "is" Queensryche. That's a band clicking on all cylinders - lyrically, musically, style, everything.
Agreed.
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I think if you gave someone Mindcrime and said "this is Queensryche," it would be a serious mistake. You really would need to give them all three of those records I mentioned, because they sum up the entirety of what IS Queensryche, to the fullest extent.
Mindcrime was my first album, and pretty much the only think I knew about QR for years. So that's probably why I've had so much trouble digesting everything else.
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I think if you gave someone Mindcrime and said "this is Queensryche," it would be a serious mistake. You really would need to give them all three of those records I mentioned, because they sum up the entirety of what IS Queensryche, to the fullest extent.
Mindcrime was my first album, and pretty much the only think I knew about QR for years. So that's probably why I've had so much trouble digesting everything else.
Interesting. See, with me, I was there with Rage, and sorta ebbed and flowed with them as their sound changed with each record. It's one of the things I find really cool about the original lineup of the band. None of the records sound remotely like the other. Sure, the underpinings of what they are as a band, the essential elements and style of each member, are there. But the style/direction of each record changed significantly with each release. Not many bands do that, IMO.
But I could absolutely see if someone like you had Mindcrime, and fixated on that, with the expectation of the same sort of band doing similar albums later, why Empire and PL would throw you. Absolutely they would. Hell, PL threw me when I got it, at least at first. lol. Part of the fun of being a fan of the original band, however, was digesting the records over time and getting what they were trying to accomplish...and why.
:)
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I'm listening to the song "Anybody Listening?" on YouTube right now. Wow, I forgot how good that song is. That song "is" Queensryche. That's a band clicking on all cylinders - lyrically, musically, style, everything.
It is awesome. In fact, I think it might be the best song they've ever done.
bosk brings up a good point about HITNF as well, that things are there, but done in an understated way, very much by design.
But overall, while it does have some tunes I really enjoy a lot - spOOL, Hit the Black, The Voice Inside, Hero - there are more tunes on there that have PARTS I enjoy, but as a whole, the full song falls flat (Sign of the Times, Reach, You, Saved, etc.)
I would disagree with PC that Queensryche's peak was Mindcrime. I think the album is their best, yes. But from a creative standpoint, they had a "peak cycle" of Mindcrime-Empire-PL that is almost unmatched in succession, by most bands. Those three albums represent what Queensryche is as a band...a band that incorporates metal, mainstream had rock, and more atmospheric/progressive rock, all into one sound...and does it VERY well.
I think if you gave someone Mindcrime and said "this is Queensryche," it would be a serious mistake. You really would need to give them all three of those records I mentioned, because they sum up the entirety of what IS Queensryche, to the fullest extent.
Mindcrime is one peak, but Queensryche had three peaks...each touching upon the different facets of their sound.
Anyway, interesting conversation. :)
Agreed about those three albums, and the songs you listed as liking a lot from HITNF are the same ones I like the most. Nice!
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I'm listening to the song "Anybody Listening?" on YouTube right now. Wow, I forgot how good that song is. That song "is" Queensryche. That's a band clicking on all cylinders - lyrically, musically, style, everything.
Agreed.
My favorite QR song as well.
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Ya know, this reminds me, does QR have a consensus small group of songs that the fan base generally considers their best? It always seems like fans are all over the place with favorite songs.
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I'd say Take Hold of the Flame and Walk in the Shadows would generally be the top 2.
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My Top 10 would be:
Roads To Madness
Deliverance
NM 156
Speak
Anybody Listening?
Queen Of The Ryche
Screaming In Digital
Eyes Of A Stranger
No Sanctuary
The Mission
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You guys got me checking out The Warning and Rage for Order song on YouTube today at work. I typically do not listen often to those albums all that much because they do have a bit of a dated 1980s production sound in my opinion, similar to DT's WDADU. But I do give them an occasional spin. Man, those songs kick-ass. There is a sonic sound to the music and vocals and the band sounds so hungry and aggressive. I also personally think Geoff is one of the best and most consistent lyricists around. Looking back on these songs makes me cringe even more at the whole cabaret thing. Ugh.
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To me, Warning IS Queensryche. I know I'm in the minority. But it was just such a different kind of album at the time.
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To me, Warning IS Queensryche. I know I'm in the minority. But it was just such a different kind of album at the time.
TAC, did you see them open up for Kiss in 1984?
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No I did not. That was in the time that Kiss was not allowed to play in Providence. That tour was in Worcester and it was too far for my parents to let me go. I distictly remember listening to WAAF's Concert Recreation that night, being very pissed off! If that tour came to Providence I might have had a chance if it was not on a school night.
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No I did not. That was in the time that Kiss was not allowed to play in Providence. That tour was in Worcester and it was too far for my parents to let me go. I distictly remember listening to WAAF's Concert Recreation that night, being very pissed off! If that tour came to Providence I might have had a chance if it was not on a school night.
That show made me go out and buy The Warning. Top 20 show for me. It's great when the opening band kicks ass and keep the momentum going for the headliner.
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I had the Warning as soon as it came out. I was already a huge fan from having the EP.
You have to check out Samsara's site. He has a lot of the old clippings, posters, and newsletters posted from that time period.
I had the Hot Metal poster from Capitol Records featuring Iron Maiden, Queensryche and Helix hanging in my bedroom.
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I had the Warning as soon as it came out. I was already a huge fan from having the EP.
Ditto for me. I was all over The Warning when it was 1st released. One of the defining metal albums of the 80s.
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I had the Warning as soon as it came out. I was already a huge fan from having the EP.
Ditto for me. I was all over The Warning when it was 1st released. One of the defining metal albums of the 80s.
But Queensryche proved very early on just how elusive they would be. When Rage For Order came out, I was like..WTF is this??
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re: top songs - not really. Most fans are all over the map. I think standbys like Roads to Madness, Take Hold, Walk in the Shadows are all in most peoples' "favorites" roster, along with The Mission and some of the Mindcrime material. After that, it's really a mixed bag.
Even for me, it's hard to do a "top-10" list. In no particular order, here are some of my all-time favs:
NM 156
Take Hold of the Flame
Roads to Madness
Walk in the Shadows
Screaming in Digital
Eyes of a Stranger (w/Anarchy-X reprise)
Empire
Anybody Listening?
Damaged
Promised Land
spOOL
Desert Dance
Art of Life
Those are all original lineup songs. I could probably narrow that to 10, which would be a first, but there are a ton of cuts I left off.
I have some favs from the non-original lineup works as well:
Howl
Liquid Sky
When the Rain Comes
Murderer
Hostage (although I prefer the original lineup demo better, with Wilton's guitar solo and no Mike Stone on the track)
At 30,000 Ft.
A Dead Man's Words
Agreed on The Warning. It took what Maiden was doing at the time, and injected Tate's progressive music flair into it. If the EP was treading on Maiden/Priest ground (which it did), then The Warning took QR to a whole new level. Particularly NM 156.
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I had the Warning as soon as it came out. I was already a huge fan from having the EP.
Ditto for me. I was all over The Warning when it was 1st released. One of the defining metal albums of the 80s.
But Queensryche proved very early on just how elusive they would be. When Rage For Order came out, I was like..WTF is this??
But that's part of the beauty of Queensryche. I had the same basic reaction to Rage For Order that you did. And it's taken me years to come back to RFO and finally appreciate it for the great album that it is.
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You guys got me checking out The Warning and Rage for Order song on YouTube today at work. I typically do not listen often to those albums all that much because they do have a bit of a dated 1980s production sound in my opinion, similar to DT's WDADU. But I do give them an occasional spin. Man, those songs kick-ass. There is a sonic sound to the music and vocals and the band sounds so hungry and aggressive. I also personally think Geoff is one of the best and most consistent lyricists around. Looking back on these songs makes me cringe even more at the whole cabaret thing. Ugh.
A little factoid most fans don't know...The Warning was meant to be heard entirely differently.
When the band approved everything, the original mix and track order were:
1. NM 156
2. En Force
3. Deliverance
4. No Sanctuary
5. Take Hold of the Flame
6. Before the Storm
7. Child of Fire
8. Warning
9. Roads to Madness
The mix was very guitar-heavy, with vocals lower in the mix.
BUT, once the band approved it and was on tour, EMI took the record, had it remixed by Val Garay, who buried the guitars and raised the vocals, and re-ordered the track sequence so that "Warning" (the first single) was the first track on the record.
Simply put - that was a BAD move, and the band was PISSED. So those of you with MP3 players...resequence The Warning to the track order above, and you get the order the BAND wanted you to hear...maybe not the mix, but at least you get the track order.
And frankly, that is one of the absolute best opening salvos to any album, of all-time, in my opinion. They lose me after Take Hold, mostly because I don't find Before the Storm, Child of FIre and Warning to be as strong as the first five songs...but then the capper of Roads to Madness, as we all know, is EPIC.
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I've been meaning to listen to it in that sequence for a while, but have never gotten around to it. I agree that it's pretty cool. But, honestly, for most "metal fans" at the time, if you were hearing the band for the first time and the first song you heard was NM156, your reaction very well might be, "er...uh...what is this?" Which might very well likely be followed by you tossing the cassette into the waste basket, which would be a real shame. I just don't think a lot of people would "get it" and wouldn't take the time to "get it." Not back then anyway.
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I've been meaning to listen to it in that sequence for a while, but have never gotten around to it. I agree that it's pretty cool. But, honestly, for most "metal fans" at the time, if you were hearing the band for the first time and the first song you heard was NM156, your reaction very well might be, "er...uh...what is this?" Which might very well likely be followed by you tossing the cassette into the waste basket, which would be a real shame. I just don't think a lot of people would "get it" and wouldn't take the time to "get it." Not back then anyway.
I disagree. It sounds creepy and cool as a beginning, even back in the early 1980s, and when the guitars kick in, it kicks all sorts of a**. Plus, The Warning is a themeatic album, which was lost because of the re-sequence...one of the reasons the band was so pissed.
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Well Bosk..I'm not sure. Maybe..
But NM 156 was the standout track from Day 1. Roads To Madness has, for me, eclipsed it, but I took to NM 156 right away.
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And it bears noticing that both of you are (1) long-time QR fans and (2) are fans of bands that do nontraditional things like Dream Theater, Floyd, etc. I think the casual '80s metal fan would have been freaked out hearing such a nontraditional track lead off the album, even though I agree that it is a standout track. It is probably in my top 10, but most definitely was not the first time I heard The Warning. Mindcrime was two albums later, and it still threw tons of people for a loop and was initially met with a lot of criticism by people who didn't get it. The Warning was, for all intents and purposes, their first album since a lot of people hadn't heard the EP. For a song like that to come at your average music consumer back then with no background whatsoever on what the band was about...I dunno. You guys might be right, but I imagine it very well might have had the effect of unfairly turning a lot of people off before they had a chance to give the band a fair shake.
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Of course I am right. Look at my signature for goodness sakes. You said it yourself. :facepalm:
:lol
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I only said that to make you feel good about yourself because I recognized that you needed help. :)
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Bosk I hear what you are saying. I don't disagree with that. I actually think Warning, while I don't think is a great track was fairly representative of what they were doing and if you wanted to make an initial statement of what they were, Warning is reasonable. For that matter, Take Hold would've made a great track 2. But to me the meat and potatoes is the run of Deliverance/No Sanctuary/NM 156.
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But to me the meat and potatoes is the run of Deliverance/No Sanctuary/NM 156.
What, no love for "En Force?" That track is :metal
"Slicing and tearing our way to the gate
A towering fortress of blackened steel
Desolate plains holding dying remains
Heed the call of the master we'll soar to
The edges of tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime!!!!!!!"
*killer guitar solo*
:metal :metal :metal
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But to me the meat and potatoes is the run of En Force/ Deliverance/No Sanctuary/NM 156.
Fixed! :)
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I only said that to make you feel good about yourself because I recognized that you needed help. :)
Bosk I hear what you are saying. I don't disagree with that.
:lol :tup
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That's unfair quoting. lol.
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np: Queensryche - THE WARNING (in original track order, which sounds AMAZING). Get with the program, bosk1
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Bosk, to your point about how NM 156 may not have given the correct first impression of what Queensryche was, or what the rest of Warning was.. They pulled a similar trick by starting Rage For Order off with Walk In The Shadows...which at first felt like Rage would be a continuation of Warning, but then of course, I Dream In Infrared starts, and you just knew this was gonna be different.
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I was unaware of the different track order. I'll check that out. I'm forced to agree with Bosk, though. NM has eventually grown into a song I don't hate, but I've never been real keen on it. As a young, dumb headbanger, I though Warning was a great way to open the album. I also didn't care for Rage at all when it came out (though it's easily my favorite now), and NM sounds a great deal like what Rage was going for. It might very well have turned me off of them in a big way.
Edit: and yeah, Walk was the song I really dug off of Rage, so I'm definitely an example of the point.
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np: Queensryche - THE WARNING (in original track order, which sounds AMAZING). Get with the program, bosk1
Yeah, I need to bring it to work and load it into my iTunes here so I can do that. But I'm now listening to Snowfall on Judgment Day, so you can't really fault me too much.
Bosk, to your point about how NM 156 may not have given the correct first impression of what Queensryche was, or what the rest of Warning was.. They pulled a similar trick by starting Rage For Order off with Walk In The Shadows...which at first felt like Rage would be a continuation of Warning, but then of course, I Dream In Infrared starts, and you just knew this was gonna be different.
Yeah, good point. And I'm not arguing that the band's intended sequencing isn't better. I really think that could have been really cool. I'm just saying a lot of people (myself likely included, at that point in time) might not have gotten it.
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Interesting perspective. Weird for me. I wasn't on the QR train until Rage. When I went back and got The Warning, the song "Warning" started it off on a bland foot for me, and while obviously I grew to enjoy and love many of the songs, the first track just started it all wrong.
But I think you (El Barto) and TAC are also six or seven years older than I am. So when I first heard QR in 1987, I was 11. I heard "Warning" for the first time in 1990, since I only had Rage and Mindcrime until Empire, and then bought the rest of the catalog. In 1990, I was already exposed to Mindcrime, Empire and Rage, and I guess my brain couldn't wrap itself around QR sounding like the song "Warning" by then. Just an odd way for listening, I suppose.
It was weird, I was a hardcore QR fan, but only had Rage and Mindcrime (and then Empire). As a kid, it didn't even occur to me to go back and get The Warning and the EP until 1990, even though I was a fan since 1987.
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Sam, one of the things I love about this forum..or any other I guess.. is hearing the different perspectives of fans, especially as it relates to how or when they became fans of a certain band. Especially the phenomenon of the "my favorite album is the one I got into them with" which I think has complete credibility.
The experience of watching a band evolve is quite different than the dynamic of "going back" through a band's discography, and I love the contrast that this presents.
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Absolutely. I mean, I "progressed" with them, starting from Rage, but eventually had to backtrack a bit to Warning and the EP. But it does change your perspective as a fan. It's like how I guess I can understand where PC was coming from better thinking of QR in this context. The only difference is, while my first album from QR was Rage, I really didn't expect to hear Rage on Mindcrime, nor did I expect to hear Mindcrime on Empire. The only time I sorta expected a similar sound was on Promised Land (thinking we'd get another Empire-ish record), and that record took me a little bit to "get." But once I did, I was back on track with the evolution (although HITNF was most certainly another huge curve ball).
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Unless your AC/DC and have only 2 distinct styles(Bluesy rock and stadium rock), most bandst hat have longevity have multiple styles over the years and are influenced by the times they are in.
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Sam, how exactly did you get turned on to Queensryche?
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Sam, how exactly did you get turned on to Queensryche?
1987. Had first discovered Fifth Angel through my friends Wayne & Jeff's older brother. He had the tape, and man, that band just hit me hard. Well, a couple of weeks later, the same older brother attended the February 13, 14, 1987 Queensryche headline shows at L'Amour in NYC. He bought Rage for Order, brought it home, and we all dubbed copies of it.
So I started listening to that (along with that Fifth Angel tape) religiously, particularly the summer of 1987. Started touting QR that Fall in school, no one had heard of them. It was all the hair metal stuff at that point. bon jovi, cinderella, poison, etc., that people were into.
Fast forward to 1988. Kept pushing QR on friends and schoolmates. Got made fun of by many, saying Def Leppard owned and was better than them. LOL. Then Operation: Mindcrime came out. Up to that point, I still liked Fifth Angel more, but Mindcrime blew me away. Then the video on MTV for Eyes of a Stranger in 1989...I remember a buddy opening his door, yelling at me down the block it was coming on MTV, and me running up to his house to go check it out. So Mindcrime and then finally the video for Eyes cemented the original Queensryche as my all time fav. Been a hard core ever since. And those same people came back to me and told me how right I was, how awesome Queensryche was. Heh. Vindication.
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Cool. Thanks.
Mindcrime was an amazing release for sure. They really blew me away, considering how not into Rage that I was.
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Interesting. I got into Queensryche thinking they were Savatage. A friend had misplaced his tapes and gave them both to me to check out. For a few days I thought Streets was actually Mindcrime and the other way around.
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Funny story...
I believe in late 1987, one of my friends told me Queensryche had released its new album, and began playing this guitar-heavy record. The singer came on, and he sounded ALMOST just like Geoff Tate. I was diggin' it, but didn't quite buy that it was Queensryche.
They had me going for a song or two, and then I said "no, no way, it's close, but that's not Queensryche." Turns out it was another TAC favorite - Helloween...specifically, Keeper of the Seven Keys, Pt. 1. Another good album.
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They had me going for a song or two, and then I said "no, no way, it's close, but that's not Queensryche." Turns out it was another TAC favorite - Helloween...specifically, Keeper of the Seven Keys, Pt. 1. Another good album.
Damn right!!!! One of the 10 most influential albums of my musical life.
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I remember how awesome the mix-mash of "Screaming in Digital" and "NM-156" was on the PL tour. Those are probably my two favorite songs from those two records, although I dig "I Dream in Infrared," "The Whisper" and "The Killing Words" all a lot, as well.
I never saw "Walk in the Shadows" as one of their top songs, so I am surprised that many would put it that high. Good song for sure, but it has never struck me as a top tier QR tune.
"Roads to Madness" has still never quite hit me in that sweet spot; I might need to give that one a few more shots.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3EtzEA7C0s
Still nothing? Weird. RtM has been among my favourite QR songs ever since I first heard it. I'd probably kill if it would make Tate sing like that and QR to compose songs like that again.
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I remember how awesome the mix-mash of "Screaming in Digital" and "NM-156" was on the PL tour. Those are probably my two favorite songs from those two records, although I dig "I Dream in Infrared," "The Whisper" and "The Killing Words" all a lot, as well.
I never saw "Walk in the Shadows" as one of their top songs, so I am surprised that many would put it that high. Good song for sure, but it has never struck me as a top tier QR tune.
"Roads to Madness" has still never quite hit me in that sweet spot; I might need to give that one a few more shots.
I loved that live mash-up of the tunes as well, but the only drawback for me was...they stopped both songs before the solos. LOL. Would have preferred they played them entirely. Since one is a psuedo-sequel to another. NM 156 is my absolute fav from Warning and SiD is my top from RFO as well. Weird on Walk in the Shadows. I love that tune. Probably #2 on RFO.
Roads as well? Wow. That tune is probably #3 for me on The Warning, after NM 156 and Take Hold.
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Been listening to some QR recently, so I will give "Roads to Madness" a few more tries. I think the problem with it before was that I was never that wild about the two songs after "Take Hold...," so by the time I got to RtM, I had lost interest, and was already thinking about what I was gonna listen to next. I'll give it more attention this time around.
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In a bit of a melancholy mood, so I've been listening to Promised Land (the album) today. Man, the title track and Damaged are just overwhelmingly powerful and emotional. Pure, classic Queensryche.
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"Promised Land" might very well be my favorite QR song (although "Anybody Listening?" and "Suite Sister Mary" are right there with it), and "Damaged" still holds the title of the first song I ever got a speeding ticket to. :lol
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"Promised Land" might very well be my favorite QR song, and "Damaged" still holds the title of the first song I ever got a speeding ticket to. :lol
:metal
Two of my all-time QR favorites, and clearly tops on that record in particular. In mixes I've done over the years, I usually start them off:
NM 156 > Screaming in Digital > Damaged
Damaged flows incredibly well after SiD...and if you think about it, that three-song suite is a mini-concept. NUGGETZZZZ! :lol
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PL is my favorite track on that album. I like Damaged a lot, but to me, I Am I barely edges it out for second place on that album. Not as heavy as Damaged, but still heavy enough and the frantic atmosphere is amazing. I just wish Geoff wouldn't lipsync the end of it live. Dude, we all knew 16 years ago that you weren't really singing it. Why do you think we'd be fooled into thinking you are after all this time? Just find a new way to end it when you play it live! :rant:
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I probably prefer "Lady Jane" (always a favorite of mine) and "Out of Mind" as my 2nd and 3rd favorites, but it goes without saying that "I Am I" and "Damaged" are awesome, as well. :tup :tup
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PL is my favorite track on that album. I like Damaged a lot, but to me, I Am I barely edges it out for second place on that album. Not as heavy as Damaged, but still heavy enough and the frantic atmosphere is amazing. I just wish Geoff wouldn't lipsync the end of it live. Dude, we all knew 16 years ago that you weren't really singing it. Why do you think we'd be fooled into thinking you are after all this time? Just find a new way to end it when you play it live! :rant:
I always found the illusion that Eddie Jackson sings live quite annoying. According to what you hear from the audience, that guys a better singer than Tate.
Listening to PL (the song) now. Pretty much forgotten that it existed.
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Eddie actually is a good singer and I believe he actually does sing live whenever it looks like he is singing. It just may sound a bit fake because they are also piping in harmonies.
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I suspect he sings kind of like Roger Waters sings in concert. About 8% him and 92% prerecorded. I've spent a lot of time at several concerts trying to discern the various background vocals, and I've never been able to hear him sing.
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Eddie Jackson is a GREAT singer. I saw him soundcheck, and he sang lead vocals. Huge range. Huge. The reason why he doesn't sing more is, he has pitch problems. And he does sing background vox on almost all songs. He's just lower in the mix. But make no mistake, he can sing well. That soundcheck was really cool. I forget what song it was (it wasn't QR material), but he rocked it. It was during the QR/DT/FW in 2003 when I saw him do it. Concord, CA show, as a matter of fact.
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I never assumed he couldn't sing, and I'm glad to hear that he's actually quite good. I wish they'd let him. I will always prefer less than perfect vocals to canned, and it sounds to me like he'd do pretty well.
I'd love to have seen that sound check. I've seen a few, and often times that's better than the real show later that night. There's a fun, looseness that often gets left behind when there's a real audience.
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Listening to PL (album) now and remembered that several years ago when I applied to seminary the title of my entrance essay was I Am I: Portrait of the Seminary Student as a Young Man, a subtle nod to Queensryche that was appreciated by no one except for me. A literary allusion present there as well, but I guess I'll pop on over to the James Joyce forum to discuss that.
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Eddie Jackson is a GREAT singer. I saw him soundcheck, and he sang lead vocals. Huge range. Huge. The reason why he doesn't sing more is, he has pitch problems. And he does sing background vox on almost all songs. He's just lower in the mix. But make no mistake, he can sing well.
I don't think anyone would pick up on any pitch problems during a live (hard) rock concert. I'd much rather have a back up singing bass player slightly off key than perfect piped in backing vocals.
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Listening to PL (album) now and remembered that several years ago when I applied to seminary the title of my entrance essay was I Am I: Portrait of the Seminary Student as a Young Man, a subtle nod to Queensryche that was appreciated by no one except for me. A literary allusion present there as well, but I guess I'll pop on over to the James Joyce forum to discuss that.
There's got to be room in the internetz for some Joyce/QR memes.
You're in the seminary?
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Listening to PL (album) now and remembered that several years ago when I applied to seminary the title of my entrance essay was I Am I: Portrait of the Seminary Student as a Young Man, a subtle nod to Queensryche that was appreciated by no one except for me. A literary allusion present there as well, but I guess I'll pop on over to the James Joyce forum to discuss that.
There's got to be room in the internetz for some Joyce/QR memes.
You're in the seminary?
I used to be. I did about 2 years in seminary, but for a variety of reasons never finished. So I'm in grad school now to get a teaching certificate and teach high school English.
Searched for QR/Joyce memes but to no avail. I guess I'll have to come up with one myself. I'm thinking I'll use DeGarmo's Wake as a title to whatever I design. It's gonna be a massive viral hit :metal
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I never assumed he couldn't sing, and I'm glad to hear that he's actually quite good. I wish they'd let him. I will always prefer less than perfect vocals to canned, and it sounds to me like he'd do pretty well.
I'd love to have seen that sound check. I've seen a few, and often times that's better than the real show later that night. There's a fun, looseness that often gets left behind when there's a real audience.
Agreed on soundcheck. Back in 2003, playing the Westbury Music Fair on Long Island, they pulled out Anybody Listening and a bunch of other songs they weren't playing that night, and you could tell they were just having fun.
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I never assumed he couldn't sing, and I'm glad to hear that he's actually quite good. I wish they'd let him. I will always prefer less than perfect vocals to canned, and it sounds to me like he'd do pretty well.
I'd love to have seen that sound check. I've seen a few, and often times that's better than the real show later that night. There's a fun, looseness that often gets left behind when there's a real audience.
Agreed on soundcheck. Back in 2003, playing the Westbury Music Fair on Long Island, they pulled out Anybody Listening and a bunch of other songs they weren't playing that night, and you could tell they were just having fun.
I got to hear Yngwie soundcheck one day. It was 15 minutes of the self-indulgent wankery you'd naturally expect, but since the guy really can play, and the band was jamming along with him, it was a real treat.
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I'd say Take Hold of the Flame and Walk in the Shadows would generally be the top 2.
One vote of disagreement here with regards to Walk in the Shadows - I find it a fairly bland song (for QR, which makes it #1 for any other band). :) My top 10 is (currently):
Screaming in Digital
Damaged
Anybody Listening?
The Needle Lies
The Thin Line
Take Hold of the Flame
sp00L
Breaking the Silence
Dead Man's Words
Disconnected
EDIT: Suite Sister Mary (whoops)
Changes a lot though.
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It would be hard for me to make a top 10, as I would be so inclined to put mostly PL songs and then "Anybody Listening?," "Suite Sister Mary" and maybe one or two others, so I will take this opportunity to point out how great and underrated "Della Brown" is. Empire is loaded with songs that were popular hits, but for my money, "Della Brown" is a top 3 song on that record.
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I never got why QR fans didn't like Della Brown that much. I think it's an amazing song, one of their best too. Lady Jane as well. Fuck, this band was so amazing up until PL, I have hard time not choosing any of their songs for a top 10 list.
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My personal top 2 are Chemical Youth and Prophecy.
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I never got why QR fans didn't like Della Brown that much. I think it's an amazing song, one of their best too. Lady Jane as well. Fuck, this band was so amazing up until PL, I have hard time not choosing any of their songs for a top 10 list.
Probably just because it is a bit on the longish side and is both mellow and repetitive. But, yes, as you have Kev said, fantastic song. I wouldn't put it in my top 3, but it is still an excellent tune.
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It's a good song, but definitely one of the lower songs on the album.
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I never got why QR fans didn't like Della Brown that much. I think it's an amazing song, one of their best too. Lady Jane as well. Fuck, this band was so amazing up until PL, I have hard time not choosing any of their songs for a top 10 list.
Probably just because it is a bit on the longish side and is both mellow and repetitive. But, yes, as you have Kev said, fantastic song. I wouldn't put it in my top 3, but it is still an excellent tune.
Della Brown rocks. Up until that song, QR never did anything even remotely bluesy like that. The guitar work is amazing, as is all the soul in the track. One of my favorites and truly an underrated gem. But nothing else in the QR catalog sounds like that tune. Just a really great take on the blues by Queensryche. Love it.
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I think it's so interesting because it's not even straight blues--it's kinda blues on steroids. It has a similar quality to when Floyd really goes back to their blues roots in that while it is definitely blues done well, it's blues with layer upon layer upon layer of atmosphere, which takes takes the song to another level.
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I think it's so interesting because it's not even straight blues--it's kinda blues on steroids. It has a similar quality to when Floyd really goes back to their blues roots in that while it is definitely blues done well, it's blues with layer upon layer upon layer of atmosphere, which takes takes the song to another level.
Well, I would expect QR to do that "blues on steroids." They were a metal-guitar-driven band, so it makes sense that was the take they did on it. :)
Great tune. Just sang that live over the weekend. :metal
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Breaking the top 3 on Empire is tough, but I think it does it (although 3-5 on my list are all pretty close in my book):
1. "Anybody Listening?"
2. "Silent Lucidity" (overplayed or not, this is a fantastic song)
3. "Della Brown"
4. "Empire"
5. "The Thin Line"
6. "Best I Can"
I was never overly wild about either "Jet City Woman" or "Another Rainy Night," but I enjoy both of them for the most part.
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Agreed, Kev. It IS tough.
I'd probably go with:
Empire
Anybody Listening?
Jet City Woman
But cuts like Best I Can and Della Brown are up there as well.
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Anybody Listening?
Hand on Heart
Resistance
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I was just listening to Empire and I got a really strong Pink Floyd vibe (The Wall in particular) from some of the songs, especially Silent Lucidity. Anyone else get this or is it just me?
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I was just listening to Empire and I got a really strong Pink Floyd vibe (The Wall in particular) from some of the songs, especially Silent Lucidity. Anyone else get this or is it just me?
Yeah, Silent Lucidity in particular. Chris DeGarmo is extremely influenced by David Gilmour. It's the way Chris writes, particularly his guitar solos.
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Except for the strings at the beginning of "Eyes of a Stranger" sounding eerily similar to Floyd's "Empty Spaces," I have never gotten a Floyd vibe from QR's music, but many others seem to, so I guess I am just missing it. ;) :lol
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I remember a few hardcore QR fans not liking the new sound on Empire but they were few and far between. I thought that is was a natural progression for QR. There were more people up in arms over Metallica's sound on the Black album then QR's Empire.
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the strings at the beginning of "Eyes of a Stranger" sounding eerily similar to Floyd's "Empty Spaces,"
WHOA. I never noticed that before.
And now it seems so obvious. :lol
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Yeah, I've always noticed a Floyd influence, especially the song and section previously mentioned.
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Except for the strings at the beginning of "Eyes of a Stranger" sounding eerily similar to Floyd's "Empty Spaces,"
"Eyes of a Stranger" was the first QR song I heard, and the "Empty Spaces" vibe was the first thing I noticed.
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the strings at the beginning of "Eyes of a Stranger" sounding eerily similar to Floyd's "Empty Spaces,"
WHOA. I never noticed that before.
And now it seems so obvious. :lol
I didn't notice that either :lol
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I remember a few hardcore QR fans not liking the new sound on Empire but they were few and far between. I thought that is was a natural progression for QR. There were more people up in arms over Metallica's sound on the Black album then QR's Empire.
Well that's because there were more people paying attention to Metallica than Queensryche. I was one of those QR fans . You had to lift an eyebrow when Empire was released. This was a movement into way more mainstream and accessable music. I liked Empire when it came out. It sounded great (which has really helped it age well), but I was very cautious of Queensryche and where they were going. Haha, and I had good reason to worry, apparently, as they followed it up with Promised Land, a direction that I was not happy with. But you're right King, you could see the progression.
But a few bands put out albums that were more accessable during this time (The Black Album, Countdown To Extinction, F&J's Cuatro). I thought all of these bands went soft for the new decade. Remarkably though, ALL of these albums have aged very well.
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And to be fair, Empire was a natural progression for the band. They could have done what most expected and followed up Mindcrime with another truly metal album with another concept. But they hit the brakes and embraced a warmer, bigger sound, and some of their other influences outside of metal.
I think what I respected about Queensryche during that period was that it was apparent that while a turn toward mainstream was partially generated because of the time period (pretty much all heavy bands put out that more mainstream record from 1990-1993), there was also that whiff of integrity about them that they weren't JUST doing it because of that. You could believe them (unlike Metallica and some other bands) when they said it was just a natural progression.
I think the continued evolution of Promised Land proved that. Every single Queensryche record from the original lineup sounded different than one another. You can't say that of bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Def Leppard (keep adding bands). Queensryche consciously never did any retreads.
With Promised Land, Queensryche could have easily made Empire 2 and continued to go mainstream. But they didn't. They did the complete opposite of what was expected of them, doing a dark, introspective, more Floydian sounding record, when the lure of doing a mainstream or grunge record was there.
QR bucked the trend, and frankly, I respect the hell out of the original lineup for doing that at that particular time, given their mainstream success with Empire.
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I know this probably isn't right, but I almost felt at the time back in 1990 that they intentionally wrote a more commercially successful album with the mindset of, "We're talented enough to whatever the heck we want to do. If we want to, we can write a smash hit, commercially successful album that puts our name front and center and makes people notice us, while still maintaining our artistic integrity. And maybe we should do that and get out on a huge tour so we can get the backing to present Mindcrime in all its glory." I mean, it almost felt like a calculated move to get label backing to be able to do the Mindcrime production that they did on the Building Empires tour. (and I'm not saying it is a bad thing at all; on the contrary, I think it would have been a brilliant move on their part if it was actually planned) Now, looking back, that doesn't seem to ring true anymore. But I still can't help but wonder if there was at least some of that kind of thinking floating around when they wrote Empire.
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I know this probably isn't right, but I almost felt at the time back in 1990 that they intentionally wrote a more commercially successful album with the mindset of, "We're talented enough to whatever the heck we want to do. If we want to, we can write a smash hit, commercially successful album that puts our name front and center and makes people notice us, while still maintaining our artistic integrity. And maybe we should do that and get out on a huge tour so we can get the backing to present Mindcrime in all its glory." I mean, it almost felt like a calculated move to get label backing to be able to do the Mindcrime production that they did on the Building Empires tour. (and I'm not saying it is a bad thing at all; on the contrary, I think it would have been a brilliant move on their part if it was actually planned) Now, looking back, that doesn't seem to ring true anymore. But I still can't help but wonder if there was at least some of that kind of thinking floating around when they wrote Empire.
Sure, the time period and going more mainstream was probably something that was discussed at the label and with the band, but the band was also ripe for moving on to a new direction, and the melody in their tunes made it a natural progression.
They've said that the goal with Empire was to write an album of individual songs, not linked by anything (aka writing singles). So they've come out and said that. So yeah, it was partially planned, but also a very natural turn for them. I think doing Promised Land right after Empire shows a bit that it was more about evolution as a band then money...at least during those times. But I hear ya, an argument can me made either way.
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I know I may have made it sound like money was the motivating factor, but that's actually not what I meant. What I was trying to say is that Mindcrime still very much had its integrity to it and was something that, despite that concept albums had been by others before, was startlingly different. They were rightly very proud of it. What I think may have been a motivating factor was that they wanted to find a way to present their vision of OM, their "pet project" so to speak, to the masses, and a more commercial album would provide a vehicle for them to do that. So I've just always wondered whether they had that much vision to have planned it that way, or whether it that was just the way it ended up playing out.
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Bosk & Sam, I agree with both of you. Empire DID sound more commercial. I mean it was obvious on the first listen, but I also felt this was very much a Queensryche album. I never questioned the integrity of the band back then. I wasn't concerned about Empire itself, I was concerned about where they would be going next.
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You know Bosk1, TAC and Samsara, when we were younger, any band that had any hint of a more comercial sound were frowned apon but, now that I'm older I realize that some bands want to strech themselves muiscally like QR, Rush, Yes and other bands like Ratt, Poison ect... didn't mess with their sound or didn't have those aspirations. I'm ok with both. QR to me seemed to be a band that I personally wanted to chalenge themselves.
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Bosk & Sam, I agree with both of you. Empire DID sound more commercial. I mean it was obvious on the first listen, but I also felt this was very much a Queensryche album. I never questioned the integrity of the band back then. I wasn't concerned about Empire itself, I was concerned about where they would be going next.
No, I get that, TAC. I just find your take different then what I thought the conversation was. You were worried with Empire being "lighter" than Mindcrime, that they'd continue that. So in a nutshell, you were right, to an extent, because it was more cerebral and acoustic-based in comparison to Empire. Some heavy moments to be sure, but not an album of mainstream songs, more of a progressive rock, thicker sounding Pink Floyd record.
I think what bosk1 and I are saying is that the natural evolution of the band took them there, and we respect them for allowing themselves to stretch out, instead of repeating themselves. PL was another natural progression, but was what was least expected from people (most general fans figured we'd get another Empire-sounding record, which we did not at all get).
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No, I'm good Sam. I was just sticking my 2 cents in. :)
I also didin't have a problem with PL in a sense that it was also very much a QR record. I didn't quite "get" it, but...
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Ya know, as crappy as Q2K is overall, I still kind of like "Sacred Ground," "One Life" and "Right Side of My Mind."
*ducks*
:p
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Queensryche is one of my favorite bands, and I realized I've never posted in this thread. I'd like to remedy that.
(https://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n388/Hatchetbull/Photoon2010-11-12at2324.jpg?t=1289625983)
Ignore the blurry douchebag.
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Right Side is the best track off Q2K (original release. The expanded version features Howl), so it's hardly anything to need to duck over...
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New album samples are up on Amazon.com. I can't recommend them I'm afraid.
i've got some wood and a box of nails. I'll get on with the coffin...
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Lowdz. They.......sound..........horrible!! Holy shit were they bad.
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Please split up...
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Did you hear the new song, Get Started or something? Worst QR tune I've heard so far (and I think their last two albums are complete and utter shit from start to finish).
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Did you hear the new song, Get Started or something? Worst QR tune I've heard so far (and I think their last two albums are complete and utter shit from start to finish).
It wasn't good, but I think it was easily better than much of QR have done lately. If I were a longtime fan who'd bought everything, I'd buy this, but since I just own their important albums I don't feel that I'll likely need to spend anything on this.
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I just took a listen.
That was BEYOND HORRIBLE. they need to break up and just go away!
Tate sounds so bad, and the band does also.
Why does Tate only use that one whiney tone over and over and over..??
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Wait, can someone link to this? I dont' know if I'm listening to the right thing.
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Just listened to the samples. You know, it's not good. But it's catchy at least. Last couple albums weren't good or catchy!
"Got it Bad" sounds like a reall winner. And by "winner" I mean worst QR song ever!
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Just listened to the samples. You know, it's not good. But it's catchy at least. Last couple albums weren't good or catchy!
"Got it Bad" sounds like a reall winner. And by "winner" I mean worst QR song ever!
I think they meant to name that for those who waste money on buying it so once they get it they can say
Q: anyone buy the Queensryche CD, how is it?
A: Yes I did , "I got it...bad"
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Please split up...
:lol
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My brother said to me the other day, "Did you know that Queensryche is coming to town this summer?" He knows I am a big fan of their early stuff and figured I'd go see them. He figured wrong. :biggrin:
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I would do the same if I were you. I'm a huge fan of the old stuff but there's no way in hell they can put a decent performance and do them justice now so why even bother.
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I've been a huge fan ever since 1990, and it looks like this new album will be the first one I don't purchase. I was absolutely horrified with the clips I saw of their Caberet tour, and a huge majority of the album samples were just godawful. Got It Bad, Get Started, and Wot We Do were probably the worst offenders. I liked Operation Mindcrime II a lot and I thought American Soldier had a few really strong songs, but it looks like Dedicated to Chaos will be the last straw for the remaining fans. I can't see them recovering after this debacle unless Tate takes a couple years off and regains his vocal abilities AND Chris Degarmo returns full-time.
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Just listened to the clips. Not good! Not good at all!
I had high hopes for this record since the last two studio albums seemed to have them returning to form. Oh well. DT11 September.
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Is there a metal band that has consistently let down the fans and released more shit albums in a row than Queensryche? Besides Metallica? I literally can't think of a band that has gone "down the tubes" quite like Queensryche has. Oh well, we always have the first 5 albums...
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Is there a metal band that has consistently let down the fans and released more shit albums in a row than Queensryche? Besides Metallica? I literally can't think of a band that has gone "down the tubes" quite like Queensryche has. Oh well, we always have the first 5 7 albums...
Fixed. And I agree.
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Is there a metal band that has consistently let down the fans and released more shit albums in a row than Queensryche? Besides Metallica? I literally can't think of a band that has gone "down the tubes" quite like Queensryche has. Oh well, we always have the first 5 7 6 albums...
Fixed. And I agree.
Fixed yet again.
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I really like HIYNF so I'll say 7. I do like Tribe. I think Jeff was the cog that really made this band.
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I don't like it, and I don't really like Promised Land much either. I haven't heard Tribe, actually.
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After listening to half the samples, I must say, this seems very disappointing, and I'm a optimistic Queensryche fan. A big step down from American Soldier by the sounds of it, which I actually quite enjoyed.
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After listening to half the samples, I must say, this seems very disappointing, and I'm a optimistic Queensryche fan. A big step down from American Soldier by the sounds of it, which I actually quite enjoyed.
My thoughts exactly.
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After listening to half the samples, I must say, this seems very disappointing, and I'm a optimistic Queensryche fan. A big step down from American Soldier by the sounds of it, which I actually quite enjoyed.
My thoughts exactly.
:tup
It's disappointing, because American Soldier was a really good record IMO. Some great songs and a good concept, and as you said a step in the right direction.
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For anyone who is interested, Slater is answering questions about his work on the new album and his involvement with Queensryche in general.
https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=2141.0
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Speaking of QR, what happened to Samsara? Reading through this thread, it occurred to me that I haven't seen him post in a while, and sure enough, when I looked at his profile, his last post was in early March.
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He's at a new job, and is just being cautious for now about not being online as much.
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For anyone who is interested, Slater is answering questions about his work on the new album and his involvement with Queensryche in general.
https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=2141.0
I feel bad for Slater having got sucked into the quagmire that is Queensryche.
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He's at a new job, and is just being cautious for now about not being online as much.
Ah. Gotcha. :coolio
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Speaking of QR, what happened to Samsara? Reading through this thread, it occurred to me that I haven't seen him post in a while, and sure enough, when I looked at his profile, his last post was in early March.
I miss him too. His replies often make me: :corn
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I bought and listened to AS, my first and so far only QR I have bought. It seems it was a good decision now, if they were going in the "right direction". After what I've read about the new album and the Cabaretcrap (havent listened to the samples yet) I'm not going to buy that album. Should I support their old albums and buy them? and hope they realise that those sells better then their new stuff, or just dont buy any album of them at all, to show that I dont like their current situation?
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I bought and listened to AS, my first and so far only QR I have bought. It seems it was a good decision now, if they were going in the "right direction". After what I've read about the new album and the Cabaretcrap (havent listened to the samples yet) I'm not going to buy that album. Should I support their old albums and buy them? and hope they realise that those sells better then their new stuff, or just dont buy any album of them at all, to show that I dont like their current situation?
Rage For Order, Operation:Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land are essential purchases.
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I second that. Rage For Order, Operation Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land are 4 of the greatest albums of all time. Absolutely brilliant stuff. You will not be disappointed!
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I second that. Rage For Order, Operation Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land are 4 of the greatest albums of all time. Absolutely brilliant stuff. You will not be disappointed!
Add the Warning to that list as well.
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I know! I have listened to them lol! :P The question I asked is if I should support them or not now, in their current situation, or wait to see if things get better?
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Listened to some of the samples;
They sound like they're doing a bad job of trying to emulate early 2000s alt-rock.
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I am sick of the boring mid tempo stuff and the clips all sound like more of the same. HitNF/Q2K sounding all over again. I can hear some Empire elements, but ultimately, nothing to get me excited about.
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Well, after listening to the clips about 10 times, I've changed my view entirely. First of all, these are only 20 second clips, so I'll save the ultimate judgement for the album. Secondly, after about the 5th listen I started to really dig this sound. I hear elements of various song styles they've done in the past, the obvious being Empire. And I remember when Empire came out, after O:M, upon first listen I hated it. But it grew on me with every listen until I loved it. Just these small clips have already had the same effect. Fascinating. I can already tell I'm going to like it much better than Hear In the Now, Q2K and Tribe. It's not the heavier, darker sound of O:M ll or AS which I love, but I'm now looking forward to this one.
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Interesting views. I hope I can say the same once I hear the album. I will still buy it and give it a good go. Reading your paragraph gives me some hope.
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Geoff's voice just doesn't have that appealing tone it used to. Now I find it rather annoying and one-dimensional. And so is the material so not a good combo.
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Interesting views. I hope I can say the same once I hear the album. I will still buy it and give it a good go. Reading your paragraph gives me some hope.
Thanks. The thing is...Queensryche are constantly reinventing their sound. That's one of the things i like about them. It's nothing new for them. O:M -Rage for Order - Empire was the same. So I for one am really hopeful of this album. It's not AS, but Empire wasn't O"M or Rage For Order either. They've been doing this their whole career if we look back on it.
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Totally, I also like them for that aspect, not one album sounds the same. That's why I will still definitely buy this record and give it a good go.
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Interesting views. I hope I can say the same once I hear the album. I will still buy it and give it a good go. Reading your paragraph gives me some hope.
Thanks. The thing is...Queensryche are constantly reinventing their sound. That's one of the things i like about them. It's nothing new for them. O:M -Rage for Order - Empire was the same. So I for one am really hopeful of this album. It's not AS, but Empire wasn't O"M or Rage For Order either. They've been doing this their whole career if we look back on it.
I never had a problem with QR reinventing their sound until their re-invention became mediocre songs not even written in most part by the band.
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Interesting views. I hope I can say the same once I hear the album. I will still buy it and give it a good go. Reading your paragraph gives me some hope.
Thanks. The thing is...Queensryche are constantly reinventing their sound. That's one of the things i like about them. It's nothing new for them. O:M -Rage for Order - Empire was the same. So I for one am really hopeful of this album. It's not AS, but Empire wasn't O"M or Rage For Order either. They've been doing this their whole career if we look back on it.
I never had a problem with QR reinventing their sound until their re-invention became mediocre songs not even written in most part by the band.
Then don't listen to them then. :corn
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Interesting views. I hope I can say the same once I hear the album. I will still buy it and give it a good go. Reading your paragraph gives me some hope.
Thanks. The thing is...Queensryche are constantly reinventing their sound. That's one of the things i like about them. It's nothing new for them. O:M -Rage for Order - Empire was the same. So I for one am really hopeful of this album. It's not AS, but Empire wasn't O"M or Rage For Order either. They've been doing this their whole career if we look back on it.
I never had a problem with QR reinventing their sound until their re-invention became mediocre songs not even written in most part by the band.
Then don't listen to them then. :corn
Sounds like a good idea. Why didn't I think of that? Pretty sure GT won't give a toss either way.
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:lol
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Thought this was funny:
https://www.queensryche.com/2011/05/20/the-band-explains-indianola/
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Well, I think this is a great single, perfect for some rock radio play and sounds like it could belong on Empire...but not quite. This is going to be a solid album I'm sure of it now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc3GkxqCPks&feature=related
It says it was recorded in mono so not to expect HQ sound and also:
"Adding comments has been removed due to the immaturity of commenters."
P.S. I read Slater's Q&A. It's just one side of the story so should be taken with a grain of salt imo. I'm sure Kelly would have a different view, Geoff would have a different view, etc. Anyway, it's the music that counts, and so far it sound good to me. Looking forward to the release.
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That actually wasn't a bad song. Pretty safe and radio friendly, but groovy and has some nice smooth melodies. Reminds me of something Pearl Jam would do. Looking forward to the album.
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That actually wasn't a bad song. Pretty safe and radio friendly, but groovy and has some nice smooth melodies. Reminds me of something Pearl Jam would do. Looking forward to the album.
:biggrin:
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That actually wasn't a bad song. Pretty safe and radio friendly, but groovy and has some nice smooth melodies. Reminds me of something Pearl Jam would do. Looking forward to the album.
I liked that track and was hopeful for the album until I heard the samples. I know it's hard to judge an album by samples but it sounds awful.
I used to look forward to QR albums but not for a long time. And I loved them from Queen of the Reich up to Promised Land. DTC will definately be a "try-before-I-buy".
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The new track is horrible. It's not Queensryche to me :'(
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Yep, this is the song I was referencing few posts ago. Worst thing they've ever done, imo. Tate's voice sounds like he's been eating sand for the last decade, dry and worn out. Just like the music accompanying it.
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Listened for about a minute and a half and couldn't listen any more. Partly because of how boring the song was, and partly because of the horrible audio quality.
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Queensryche have a put a free track to put up for download. That is also crap. :sad: I won't be buying this album. Real shame, they used to be such an incredible band :sadpanda:
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Listened for about a minute and a half and couldn't listen any more. Partly because of how boring the song was, and partly because of the horrible audio quality.
The person who put it up on youtube said not to expect hq audio because it was recorded in mono.
Anyway, I hated Empire when I first heard it. I also hated RFO. Those two albums took some time to grow. And I'm glad I gave them a chance and quit thinking about how they didn't sound like O:M. Seriously, wouldn't it be more fair to listen to the whole album a few times before judging it?
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Listened for about a minute and a half and couldn't listen any more. Partly because of how boring the song was, and partly because of the horrible audio quality.
The person who put it up on youtube said not to expect hq audio because it was recorded in mono.
Anyway, I hated Empire when I first heard it. I also hated RFO. Those two albums took some time to grow. And I'm glad I gave them a chance and quit thinking about how they didn't sound like O:M. Seriously, wouldn't it be more fair to listen to the whole album a few times before judging it?
I loved the change in Empire. It showed their growth but from the samples I've heard it seem they've regressed. I seems that Chris DeGarmo is the key to their writing and that's been apparent on any album without him.
I'm not saying that bands cant survive or write good music if a player leaves but in the case of Queensryche, it makes a world of difference.
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Listened for about a minute and a half and couldn't listen any more. Partly because of how boring the song was, and partly because of the horrible audio quality.
The person who put it up on youtube said not to expect hq audio because it was recorded in mono.
Anyway, I hated Empire when I first heard it. I also hated RFO. Those two albums took some time to grow. And I'm glad I gave them a chance and quit thinking about how they didn't sound like O:M. Seriously, wouldn't it be more fair to listen to the whole album a few times before judging it?
I loved the change in Empire. It showed their growth but from the samples I've heard it seem they've regressed. I seems that Chris DeGarmo is the key to their writing and that's been apparent on any album without him.
I'm not saying that bands cant survive or write good music if a player leaves but in the case of Queensryche, it makes a world of difference.
Well, I for one wasn't too impressed with Chris DeGarmo's writing on Tribe. Subsequent albums O:M ll and AS were much better imo.
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I tend to think your in the minority on that. I wished he stayed with the band myself.
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I personally really liked Tribe and think it's definitely better than O:MII, and probably better than American Soldier as well.
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From HITNF all the way through to American Solider, Tribe is by far the best album of that bunch.
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Well, there we have it. I tried to like Tribe, but could never really get into it, it just didn't happen for me. Therefore, I will probably like DTC and you people who likes Tribe won't. In this case I'd rather be in the minority, because that means the new album will be to my liking and not yours....did that make any sense? :lol
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Well, there we have it. I tried to like Tribe, but could never really get into it, it just didn't happen for me. Therefore, I will probably like DTC and you people who likes Tribe won't. In this case I'd rather be in the minority, because that means the new album will be to my liking and not yours....did that make any sense? :lol
No. But from what you are trying to say, just because I like Tribe doesn't mean I won't like DTC.
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Well, there we have it. I tried to like Tribe, but could never really get into it, it just didn't happen for me. Therefore, I will probably like DTC and you people who likes Tribe won't. In this case I'd rather be in the minority, because that means the new album will be to my liking and not yours....did that make any sense? :lol
No. But from what you are trying to say, just because I like Tribe doesn't mean I won't like DTC.
It was a simple formula I came up with on the spot. Just joking around man. :metal
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Well, I for one wasn't too impressed with Chris DeGarmo's writing on Tribe. Subsequent albums O:M ll and AS were much better imo.
Maybe it makes a difference and maybe it doesn't, but keep in mind that Chris left before the album was finished, so some of what is on there really did not end up being a complete effort by him.
Anyhow, after hearing some of the tracks off of DTC, I am even more firmly resolved to not buy this album until I find a copy in the used bin. I don't want the band to see a dime of my money.
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Chris DeGarmo was the primary song writer on Hear In the Now Frontier and I don't know anyone who liked that album when it came out or even now. I could never get into that one either. I know Chris wrote some great stuff way back in the day, but he left long ago and he probably won't be returning (I could be wrong.)
I like what I hear so far on DTC, not so much Got It Bad though. Anyway, just because somebody doesn't like it doesn't mean it's not quality music. It just means it's not what somebody wants them to put out. Music is subjective. I'll save my ultimate judgement for the full album release though.
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I did but a lot of QR fans didn't. I found a lot of fans never like a band that slightly changes styles but any band with longevity change over time. Some good, some.......
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DTC was unfairly judged by so many people before even a clip came out that it doesn't have a chance. :facepalm:
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DTC was unfairly judged by so many people before even a clip came out that it doesn't have a chance. :facepalm:
I think there past albums have sunk them. Sub par albums tend to lose their fan base. I've bought every studio album so far and with Q2K, Mindcrime II, and Take Cover, it's been bad. American Solder was decent but when your on a bad streak people bale.
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Didn't care much for Q2K or Tribe, absolutely loved OM:ll, don't generally care for cover tunes so stayed away from Take Cover, really liked AS. So it's been up and down for me, but every album is so different that I mostly blame it on my personal taste in each individual album. What's amazing is how many people don't like anything they've done since Promised Land, great album as it was.
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I think they just had such a strong early career, no matter what they do, people are never going to accept new material. I understand where those people are coming from. I mean, it's sad to hear an album like Q2K when you know what the band were once capable of, but as you said, bands change and music is subjective. I've always been open minded to what the band are doing. I've purchased every one of their albums, I love Tribe, and American Soldier was really good, but the rest are hit or miss. I don't slag the band for it, it was what they were doing at the time and you have to appriciate that, I just didn't care for them. Also, I will say that Take Cover was just horrible.
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I haven't even heard Take Cover so I'll take your word for that one. ;)
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I haven't even heard Take Cover so I'll take your word for that one. ;)
Trust me, don't even bother.
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TBH, I would prefer if they just stayed with the same formula as their classics. I mean look at both Metallica and Ryche. And look at Maiden, all their albums sound very similiar (compared to these two bands at least), sure they have become more progressive over the years, but look where they are now.
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Chris DeGarmo was the primary song writer on Hear In the Now Frontier and I don't know anyone who liked that album when it came out or even now.
Then get out more. :biggrin: I love it, and it's easily in my top 4 (along with Promised Land, Empire, and depending on my mood on any particular day, either Rage or Mindcrime).
As far as the post-CDG stuff, it's been a steady decline as far as I'm concerned.
Q2K was different, but had some moments. I actually consider it kind of a shame that Kelly didn't work out because I would like to have heard what he could have done if he had stayed in the band with an album and tour under his belt. At least they were writing as a band with him onboard. It was still a band effort.
Tribe had some really high peaks, but some abysmally low valleys. I love 3-4 songs on the album, would put another 1-2 in the "passable" category, and don't like the rest at all.
OMII: This began their slide into having the musical direction dictated almost solely by Tate, written almost entirely by outside writers, and the band just playing what they are told to play. This is, to me, where Chris was most conspicuously missed. Him serving as a guiding force in the shaping of the music and an album's sound and direction could have made this a respectable record. The seeds were definitely there, but the execution just feel short.
Take Cover: Arrangements entirely by Jason Slater. Vocals sound abysmal, like they are done in one take with no warmup by baritone lounge singer trying to impersonate Geoff Tate. But it's a covers album, so I'm willing to cut them some slack.
American Solider: Again, we have an album dictated by Tate and written almost entirely by Slater. But he has really hit his stride in tapping the Queensryche vibe, and perhaps equally important, Geoff is inspired. Yeah, there are a few weak moments, but overall the album works. The one and only area where it unequivocally fails is Geoff's singing. The vocals aren't quite as bad as on Take Cover, but close. A number of songs suffer because the singing is strained and whiny, and sounds like it is all sung from the neck up. How a singer as talented as Geoff Tate could be so casual about his voice and how he is recorded is just beyond me. This album could have perhaps rivaled some of the original lineup material if the vocals did not ruin it.
DTC: I have only heard a handful of complete songs and some clips. But again, we have outside writers, we have an album where Wilton's guitar tone and style seem to be completely MIA, we have badly written pop instead of hard rock/metal, and we again have horrible vocals. This will be the first QR album I will definitely NOT be buying on release day and likely will not buy new at all. Unless I hear the whole thing and am unexpectedly blown away by tracks I haven't heard yet, I plan on picking this up when I find it in the used bin because I would rather speak with my wallet and let the band know that their approach to their music and their fans have gone somewhere this fan is no longer interested in supporting.
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I am one of those fans who grew up with QR and loved the band from the moment I heard Queen Of The Reich, and I'm one of those fans that hasn't liked much since Promised Land; a few tracks here and there have been ok.
The band are no longer QR and haven't been for many years. The magic they had is long gone.
The songs are not QR songs, they are written by people outside the band.
I don't like them. That is not my problem, I just don't buy the albums anymore. I mourn what this once great band became. If I blame anyone it would be Wilton, Rockenfield and Jackson for going with the flow and not standing up for their band.
This isn't Rush who change their style as they go. This is a band who's creative heart and soul left and was replaced by outside writers.
If you like their modern stuff I'm happy for you but I reserve my right to not like their current output.
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I must say going back to what bosk said, I really still have no idea why they would feel the need to bring in an outside songwriter, I never understood that.
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I think it's because if you go through the four remaining members of the band, person by person, for each one of them, they either (1) don't want to write, or (2) can't write a complete song.
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I agree it's a shame about the outside writers. I too wish they would write as a band, or at least a partial band. But I still really like OM:ll and AS regardless. The new album is reserved for the release, but so far I like 2 out of the 3 songs I've heard. It's just a different vibe, which was expected.
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I think it's because if you go through the four remaining members of the band, person by person, for each one of them, they either (1) don't want to write, or (2) can't write a complete song.
Fair enough, but the complete ommission of Wilton's contribution to the songwriting makes me sad. He wrote so many great songs back in the day and him and Tate, were a great songwriting team.
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With OM and Empire alot of Wilton's songs are my favourites. Where did it all go? Maybe CDG was gluing Wilton's ideas together into song form?
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New song - Around the World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1JWWOL-opI
This has been put up by the band as a free download.
Hmm....not digging this shit at all. Get Started was a fun track but this just doesn't cut it IMO.
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With OM and Empire alot of Wilton's songs are my favourites. Where did it all go? Maybe CDG was gluing Wilton's ideas together into song form?
That is my understanding--that Wilton can write some good riffs and melodies, but can't arrange and can't write complete songs. He is an idea guy, but Chris was the one who was able to take those ideas and put them together into a complete song. If all he did was the arranging, he didn't take credit. If he contributed to more than that, he did take some of the writing credit. At least, that's how I understand it.
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New song - Around the World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1JWWOL-opI
This has been put up by the band as a free download.
Hmm....not digging this shit at all. Get Started was a fun track but this just doesn't cut it IMO.
It's just ok. I am not wowed by it.
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New song - Around the World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1JWWOL-opI
This has been put up by the band as a free download.
Hmm....not digging this shit at all. Get Started was a fun track but this just doesn't cut it IMO.
This has been on youtube for awhile. I really like the melodies. It grew on me with each listen. I'm pretty sure this will be their second single though not positive. At any rate, they definitely went way more radio friendly with it, that's for sure.
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I really liked the first 30 seconds.
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As soon as the U2 riff kicked in it went downhill. Not an awful song just not a QR song.
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As soon as the U2 riff kicked in it went downhill. Not an awful song just not a QR song.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Good U2 song. Still like it, just a little too radio.
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Wot We Do - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akTwO-HB398
Heed my warning: some things cannot be unseen or unheard.
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Wot We Do - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akTwO-HB398
Heed my warning: some things cannot be unseen or unheard.
Wow, is that the typical sound of post-1997-Queensryche? :rollin
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That video makes me wanna cry. Seriously, that's so depressing.
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Wot We Do - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akTwO-HB398
Heed my warning: some things cannot be unseen or unheard.
Wow, is that the typical sound of post-1997-Queensryche? :rollin
No, not really. It's something new really, and 1000x worse than ANY Queensryche.
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Wot We Do - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akTwO-HB398
Heed my warning: some things cannot be unseen or unheard.
Wow, is that the typical sound of post-1997-Queensryche? :rollin
No, not really. It's something new really, and 1000x worse than ANY Queensryche.
Quite the shame. Who is behind this BS?
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....Geoff Tate and his wife.
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Get Me Started gave me some hope, but this song and video is just horrid. What the hell are you doing Tate? I've been loyal to Queensryche through their rough patch over the last 12-15 years, but I think this is just too much for me.
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Oh god...
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LOL, like most I enjoyed all the albums through PL. I just watched the last 3 vids posted here Get Started, Around the World, and Wot We Do... I know everyone is freaking over the Wot We Do vid but at least it has some kind of edge and they even put some chicks (and more?) on stage.. Get Started and Around the World put me to sleep :sad:
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What does his wife have to do with this anyway? I know I've heard that all around, but I've never been clear on the connectoin.
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Doesn't his wife tell him what to write or something like that
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What does his wife have to do with this anyway? I know I've heard that all around, but I've never been clear on the connectoin.
It seems to be an Ozzy/Sharon type deal where the wife has become an overbearing and parasitic manager. It seems she became manager around Q2K, and that was the beginning of Queensryhe being rather weak, IMO. And I guess she's been finding more and more ways to turn QS into whatever that thing in the new video is.
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In an official sense Susan Tate is the band's manager.
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What does his wife have to do with this anyway? I know I've heard that all around, but I've never been clear on the connectoin.
It seems to be an Ozzy/Sharon type deal where the wife has become an overbearing and parasitic manager. It seems she became manager around Q2K, and that was the beginning of Queensryhe being rather weak, IMO. And I guess she's been finding more and more ways to turn QS into whatever that thing in the new video is.
Tate's wife has a lot to do with touring decisions, such as Lita Ford joining them on part of the last tour and opening for Chickenfoot, but she doesn't write the music. Geoff and his hired hands write the music and Scott Rockenfield has a fair amount of decision making as well as him and Geoff and their families are good friends. Geoff and Scott have been putting together the latest tour staging together as well.
Funny thing I remember about the last tour. When Whip was asked about opening for Chickenfoot in an interview, he said, "Yeah, that's kinda weird." lol Please don't ask for the link. I have no idea where it is, but I clearly remember it.
Anyway, I've been extremely busy so haven't yet seen the vids. I have never cared about music videos. I'll get the album used at some point and take the music on it's own merits, with no visuals to influence it.
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What does his wife have to do with this anyway? I know I've heard that all around, but I've never been clear on the connectoin.
It seems to be an Ozzy/Sharon type deal where the wife has become an overbearing and parasitic manager.
This. And she, her daughter, and Misty Rockenfield (Scott's wife) are three of the strippers/dancers in the video (and on the Cabaret tour).
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Wot We Do - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akTwO-HB398
Heed my warning: some things cannot be unseen or unheard.
I love the dislike bar on that video :metal What a shit song. Really sad to see how these have turned out. Will not be watching these at High Voltage :/
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What does his wife have to do with this anyway? I know I've heard that all around, but I've never been clear on the connectoin.
It seems to be an Ozzy/Sharon type deal where the wife has become an overbearing and parasitic manager.
This. And she, her daughter, and Misty Rockenfield (Scott's wife) are three of the strippers/dancers in the video (and on the Cabaret tour).
Uh...and they don't see anything odd about that?
Jesus, just watched the "Wot We Do" video and everything about it was terrible.
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Against my better judgment, I checked out both of those links.
I chose...poorly.
Just awful.
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What does his wife have to do with this anyway? I know I've heard that all around, but I've never been clear on the connectoin.
It seems to be an Ozzy/Sharon type deal where the wife has become an overbearing and parasitic manager.
This. And she, her daughter, and Misty Rockenfield (Scott's wife) are three of the strippers/dancers in the video (and on the Cabaret tour).
Uh...and they don't see anything odd about that?
Exactly. Apparently, they don't. Honestly, I thought Parker Lundgren's "I am nailing Geoff Tate's daughter" guitar picks were funny as long as Geoff, Susan, and Miranda were okay with it (Parker and Miranda were engaged at the time). But everything else...ugh.
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Against my better judgment, I checked out both of those links.
I chose...poorly.
Just awful.
Morbid curiosity - it's a bitch.
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Well, that was a pretty shit song.
I love the dislike bar on that video :metal
:lol
They disabled ratings on the video now.
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Not only that but
Comment Pending Approval! Cancel or
I bet there's an ironic lyrics line in Mindcrime or PL or a number of their albums about censoring shit someone doesn't want to see :Dd
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Not only that but Comment Pending Approval! Cancel or
I bet there's an ironic lyrics line in Mindcrime or PL or a number of their albums about censoring shit someone doesn't want to see :Dd
Definitely! This immortal verse from "Anybody Listening?" (off Empire) comes to mind:
Read between the lines,
Criticize the lies they're selling,
Think for yourself and feel the walls
become sand beneath your feet...
I guess that's one song we won't be hearing them perform on this tour - unless Tate lacks all sense of irony. This is just sad, and the rest of the record (or, at least, what I've heard of it) isn't much better.
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Last I saw it was 21 likes to 149 dislikes.
Some comments have now been approved. :lol
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What does his wife have to do with this anyway? I know I've heard that all around, but I've never been clear on the connectoin.
It seems to be an Ozzy/Sharon type deal where the wife has become an overbearing and parasitic manager.
This. And she, her daughter, and Misty Rockenfield (Scott's wife) are three of the strippers/dancers in the video (and on the Cabaret tour).
The Aristocrats!
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Last I saw it was 21 likes to 149 dislikes.
Some comments have now been approved. :lol
One comment in particular caught my attention:
"Very different sound but not bad. The girls are hot. If you were to tell someone this song was by Queensryche they'd look at you like you had two heads. You've obliterated that pesky "genre" thing. Nice work guys."
I have a feeling that's supposed to be a subtle insult.
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New song - Around the World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1JWWOL-opI
This has been put up by the band as a free download.
Hmm....not digging this shit at all. Get Started was a fun track but this just doesn't cut it IMO.
I don't think I've ever seen a more split like/dislike bar on youtube.
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Thanks for all the warnings. Will not be doing anything to further degrade my opinion of this once great band. Q2k and Mindcrime 2 did enough to taint me.
I'll just consider them (career) dead to me around 1997. They are the Fredo of music to me.
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God damn it...they've have removed the like/dislike bar on Wot We Do :( Yerp as they would say "let's only approve the comments that are good about us to make us feel better for playing this God awful shit"
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Really, when you have your wife and daughter doing burlesque dancing at your shows, I think the point of actually listening to constructive criticism is pretty distant in the rearview mirror.
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I used to think GT had more class than most rock singers/musicians due the nice suits, wine, yaught and all, but now I know otherwise. But still, only the music matters to me. If I judged all the musicians I listen to by their morals, I probably wouldn't have much of a music collection. I don't agree with all the hard drug abuse in the business either, even in the jazz scene, but I'm not going to stop listening to their music because of it.
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Listened to The Warning today. Fuck they did some amazing stuff back in the day. Makes me even more depressed for the new album.
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The Warning is their second best IMO
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Yeah, I've always liked it too. Not one weak track to be found, and when you add Prophecy in on the mix, it's just perfect. Geoff vocals are godly on this album. Roads to Madness, Take Hold of the Flame, Deliverance, En Force, Warning, NM 156, Before the Storm, just amazing tracks.
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They played Take Hold of the Flame on the AS tour and Geoff nailed it. He hit all the high notes with no probelm at all. Of course it was the 3rd show of the tour so his voice was fresh. But man he sounded great that night. Great show all around. Then I saw them at the end of the long tour and they just weren't as into it, but still gave it 80%. Their tours are too long and too packed. But I met Geoff, Scott, Parker and their families at an Italian restaurant before the show and they were very friendly and in a good mood. I just think the long tour took some toll on them. But man that Portland gig was amazing. Good memories.
Anyway, back on topic. The songs so far are basically singles, which are usually the worst songs on any albums. Man Down and If I Were King were the singles on AS and they are my least favorite songs of the cd, so I'm still hopeful that the rest of the album will be head and heals above the released songs.
This just in: I hated Rage for Order when it came out as well as Empire. Of course I grew to love them both.
Maybe DTC will be good, maybe not, but to judge it on a couple of singles/videos can't do the album justice as a whole.
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Yeah, but a trend is a trend. They've haven't done anything good since Promised Land (IMO). I'm tired of giving them chances, or the benefit of the doubt. I doubt this album will be any less unimpressive than the last few.
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This just in: I hated Rage for Order when it came out as well as Empire. Of course I grew to love them both.
Maybe DTC will be good, maybe not, but to judge it on a couple of singles/videos can't do the album justice as a whole.
RFO took me a bit to get used to but Empire won me over right away. I didn't mind the change in sound and style for QR on Empire.
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Maybe DTC will be good, maybe not, but to judge it on a couple of singles/videos can't do the album justice as a whole.
No, it's completely awful as a whole. Here's a taste of what you're in for:
Excerpts from "Hot Spot Junkie"
The wi-fi way
I'm addicted to the wi-fi way
Indispensible satellite tool
I abuse, I abuse
The World Wide Web
And all the pictures on YouTube, YouTube
There's no escaping it
It's crawling under my skin
Can't look away from the screen
Might miss what's happening
I'm busy surfing
For some other kind of fantasy
My mind's a river flowing
Don't know which way to run
Upon the tide (?)
I'm like a hotspot junkie
With a loaded gun
...
This wi-fi frenzy world
Revolutionary cyberworld
Ready get some airtime (?)
airway time (?)
You got it under your skin
You got it under your skin
The World Wide Web
Has all the local news on YouTube, YouTube
The connectivity is crossing the threshhold
Crossing the threshhold
...
That's more or less accurate. It's just painful to listen to, and is indicative of the lack of quality on the album as a whole. Geoff's voice is a mess, his vocal phrasing is awkward and distracting, Michael Wilton is just absent, hardly any guitar-driven songs, cheesy lyrics, etc. etc.
But give it a listen, you never know - maybe it will "click" for you.
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They played Take Hold of the Flame on the AS tour and Geoff nailed it. He hit all the high notes with no probelm at all. Of course it was the 3rd show of the tour so his voice was fresh. But man he sounded great that night. Great show all around.
I don't believe this at all. Are you sure there weren't any backing vocals being pumped in? Tate does not take care of his voice, doesn't believe in warming up before shows and is known for using backing tracks quite a bit during live shows these days.
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Yeah, but a trend is a trend. They've haven't done anything good since Promised Land (IMO). I'm tired of giving them chances, or the benefit of the doubt. I doubt this album will be any less unimpressive than the last few.
This is where we disagree. OM:ll and AS were excellent albums imo and Tribe wasn't bad. I am doubtful that DTC will click with me though because it's not the guitar driven Queensryche I love, and the lyrics so far do seem very simple and strange for them. But I don't only listen to guitar driven music so I'm open to a change. So I'll buy it used and still give it a shot. One thing is for sure, unlike DT, you really never know what your going to get with QR.
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They played Take Hold of the Flame on the AS tour and Geoff nailed it. He hit all the high notes with no probelm at all. Of course it was the 3rd show of the tour so his voice was fresh. But man he sounded great that night. Great show all around.
I don't believe this at all. Are you sure there weren't any backing vocals being pumped in? Tate does not take care of his voice, doesn't believe in warming up before shows and is known for using backing tracks quite a bit during live shows these days.
I'm positive man. I was in front right in front of him. Another time he sounded great was at the Pain in the Grass festival in Seattle when they played with the orchestra, this after several days off from the tour. His voice needs rest. That's the situation. Problem is, it doesn't get any rest when they play almost every single night at every country fair and casino a long the way. But when he's fresh he can still sound very good.
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I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. 1. His voice sounds awful on the last 3 studio releases. He simply can't hit and hold those notes anymore. 2. More importantly, bootlegs don't lie. You may simply have been caught up in the moment. Or you maybe don't realize that all he is doing is briefly walking up to a high note and holding it for a brief moment, while the song is downtuned so that he is actually hitting a note lower than the original, and being propped up by a backing track. Honestly, I don't know. But I do know for a fact that Goeff Tate has destroyed his voice and is simply incapable of singing anything close to how he used to be able to.
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Maybe DTC will be good, maybe not, but to judge it on a couple of singles/videos can't do the album justice as a whole.
No, it's completely awful as a whole. Here's a taste of what you're in for:
Excerpts from "Hot Spot Junkie"
The wi-fi way
I'm addicted to the wi-fi way
Indispensible satellite tool
I abuse, I abuse
The World Wide Web
And all the pictures on YouTube, YouTube
There's no escaping it
It's crawling under my skin
Can't look away from the screen
Might miss what's happening
I'm busy surfing
For some other kind of fantasy
My mind's a river flowing
Don't know which way to run
Upon the tide (?)
I'm like a hotspot junkie
With a loaded gun
...
This wi-fi frenzy world
Revolutionary cyberworld
Ready get some airtime (?)
airway time (?)
You got it under your skin
You got it under your skin
The World Wide Web
Has all the local news on YouTube, YouTube
The connectivity is crossing the threshhold
Crossing the threshhold
...
That's more or less accurate. It's just painful to listen to, and is indicative of the lack of quality on the album as a whole. Geoff's voice is a mess, his vocal phrasing is awkward and distracting, Michael Wilton is just absent, hardly any guitar-driven songs, cheesy lyrics, etc. etc.
But give it a listen, you never know - maybe it will "click" for you.
Dear God.
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Maybe DTC will be good, maybe not, but to judge it on a couple of singles/videos can't do the album justice as a whole.
No, it's completely awful as a whole. Here's a taste of what you're in for:
Excerpts from "Hot Spot Junkie"
The wi-fi way
I'm addicted to the wi-fi way
Indispensible satellite tool
I abuse, I abuse
The World Wide Web
And all the pictures on YouTube, YouTube
There's no escaping it
It's crawling under my skin
Can't look away from the screen
Might miss what's happening
I'm busy surfing
For some other kind of fantasy
My mind's a river flowing
Don't know which way to run
Upon the tide (?)
I'm like a hotspot junkie
With a loaded gun
...
This wi-fi frenzy world
Revolutionary cyberworld
Ready get some airtime (?)
airway time (?)
You got it under your skin
You got it under your skin
The World Wide Web
Has all the local news on YouTube, YouTube
The connectivity is crossing the threshhold
Crossing the threshhold
...
That's more or less accurate. It's just painful to listen to, and is indicative of the lack of quality on the album as a whole. Geoff's voice is a mess, his vocal phrasing is awkward and distracting, Michael Wilton is just absent, hardly any guitar-driven songs, cheesy lyrics, etc. etc.
But give it a listen, you never know - maybe it will "click" for you.
Please leave the killer computer lyrics to Symphony X kthxbi
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Wow, those lyrics are beyond embarrassingly bad.
At least when Rush wrote Virtuality, they had the excuse of it being 1996.
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I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. 1. His voice sounds awful on the last 3 studio releases. He simply can't hit and hold those notes anymore. 2. More importantly, bootlegs don't lie. You may simply have been caught up in the moment. Or you maybe don't realize that all he is doing is briefly walking up to a high note and holding it for a brief moment, while the song is downtuned so that he is actually hitting a note lower than the original, and being propped up by a backing track. Honestly, I don't know. But I do know for a fact that Goeff Tate has destroyed his voice and is simply incapable of singing anything close to how he used to be able to.
LOL How insulting. I don't care if you don't believe me. I have a good ear and know what I hear. Anyway, I didn't say he sounds that good every night, did I? At the end of the tour when I saw them in Eugene he sounded pretty bad and struggled throughout. So please, a little respect.
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Calm down guys, leave the arguments for DTC. :tup
I must, I saw them in 2006 on the Mindcrime 2 tour. Geoff was very good, but he wasn't 1984 quality of course. He did well to hit the notes but when he did, it was quite thin, not full like he was back in the day, but nevertheless, his performance was very enjoyable, I would go and see them again.
I do think at concerts you do get lost in the moment and performances come across better in the flesh. The atmosphere, excitement and volume level sometimes make you think the band are performing better than they are. That's why find it amusing when people say "they didn't sound that bad when I saw them." When in actual fact, they probably did.
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I do think at concerts you do get lost in the moment and performances come across better in the flesh. The atmosphere, excitement and volume level sometimes make you think the band are performing better than they are. That's why find it amusing when people say "they didn't sound that bad when I saw them." When in actual fact, they probably did.
Exactly. Nowadays, it's pretty easy to dig up a copy of a show and see whether or not it is "that good." In this case, it wasn't.
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I do think at concerts you do get lost in the moment and performances come across better in the flesh. The atmosphere, excitement and volume level sometimes make you think the band are performing better than they are. That's why find it amusing when people say "they didn't sound that bad when I saw them." When in actual fact, they probably did.
Exactly. Nowadays, it's pretty easy to dig up a copy of a show and see whether or not it is "that good." In this case, it wasn't.
Really, I'd go as far as saying that most cases it's not as good. I've watched bands live on youtube or tv literally a day after me attending the show and being shocked at the performance. I'd say to my self "They weren't this bad last night." Well, most probably, they were. :lol
It's something about seeing one of your favourite bands live in the flesh that make you think they are performing perfectly right in front of you. Acoustics, atmosphere, digital effects do wonderful things.
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Well, after 200+ concerts in my lifetime, I know a good one from a bad one. And I don't agree with judging a show by a youtube clip due to the unbelievably horrendous sound quality recorded with people's phones. That is precisely why Steven Wilson prohibits filming any of his shows, whether it be PT or Blackfield. He has said that he doesn't want people judging their music by very low quality youtube clips. Even though people don't care and do it anyway. :angry:
I've seen Queensryche 5 times live and rate them as follows:
Portland 1991 Empire tour - Off the charts good. On a scale of 1-10 I'd give it a 1000.
Vancouver, WA 2007 Hits and Rarities tour - Ok show, not very into it. Geoff sounded just ok, didn't take any chances other than a couple high notes just show he can.
Portland 2009 AS tour - Very, very good show. They were on fire that night and Geoff sounded very good, not Empire tour good. That would be impossible. But he pulled it off on THOTF during the encore, again not 80s quality, but he hit the notes and they were in key. A very good night at the start of the tour.
Eugene, OR 2009 AS tour - Just an ok show, not very into it, last stop on the tour, they were clearly done with it. Geoff's voice was thrashed by that time and he struggled to get through it. Pretty weak and not worth the road trip, other than we got to meet them at an Italian restaurant before the show, which was a surprise.
Seattle 2009 Empire Orchestra - After several days off from the end of the tour, Very good show. Geoff sounded good, but not as good as the Portland show. But he sang his ass off and it was a million times better than the Eugene show just a couple weeks before.
So as you guys can see, I'm not an idiot. I know what I hear and I know Geoff isn't consistent. But I've also noticed that he does better when he's not trying to sing those ridiculous vocal ranges every single night. His voice needs rest to sound up to par, but it's not ruined...yet. I think his age should be taken into consideration as well. I mean, it's not like Bruce Dickinson or Rob Halford are singing like they did at their peak either.
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Actually, Bruce Dickinson's voice is still amazing. Halford not so much.
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dongringo, nobody is calling you an idiot at all, just giving our point of views.
And IMO, Bruce has sung better in the 2000's than he did in the 1980's. Halford has gone downhill so much it's embarrasing.
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dongringo, nobody is calling you an idiot at all, just giving our point of views.
And IMO, Bruce has sung better in the 2000's than he did in the 1980's. Halford has gone downhill so much it's embarrasing.
Not really embarassing considering his age.
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You gotta cut Halford some slack. Yeah, he and Bruce are up there among the top metal vocalists. But, they're quite different. Bruce definitely does more singing compared to Halford's more than occasional shrieking. Halford's style has gotta take more of a toll on the vocal chords. Both still awesome, though.
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Halford's style has gotta take more of a toll on the vocal chords.
I've always felt this way about Geoff's vocal style. How could he possibly continue that style forever? Personally, I think he's intentionally changed his style. This has been evident since his solo album. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It just sounds different than before. He's still one of the best vocalists out there, despite not being near as good as the good old days.
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dongringo, nobody is calling you an idiot at all, just giving our point of views.
Yes, but when you basically call me a liar then you might as well be calling me an idiot who doesn't know what I'm talking about. That's why I went on the defensive and broke down the shows I've seen, just to show that I realize that Geoff isn't consistent, sometimes not good at all, but he still has his good nights. He only does it when he feels he can do it though. Sometimes he'll sing passages in a lower key because that's all he feels he can do that night. Bruce Dickensen does that as well. Another comparison between Geoff and Bruce...Iron Maiden's tours aren't nearly as grueling. They take way more days off than Queensryche, which is the point I was making about Geoff's voice not having enough rest during a tour. Of course Maiden plays to much larger crowds so I guess they can do that. Anyway, Bruce isn't always perfect. He drinks too much on tour sometimes and goes on stage with a hangover occasionally. There have been rumors about Geoff smoking, although I haven't seen any proof of that. Not saying it's not true, just not convinced. At any rate, if he was smoking, I believe he has quit because they are auctioning off a tour package for a couple to travel with them on the Priest tour, stay on their bus, eat with them, etc. and one of the rules is absolutely no smoking backstage. So if he wasn't taking care of his voice in that way, it seems he's back on track. I just wish they would take more days off, because his voice needs it. I do hope he doesn't kill his voice for good and that they come out with just one more really good QR album before their demise. But I'm not holding my breath. Unlike DT, Geoff...I mean Queensrych lol...do what they want without much regard to the fans. But they don't owe us anything. It's their music after all.
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dongringo, nobody is calling you an idiot at all, just giving our point of views.
Yes, but when you basically call me a liar then you might as well be calling me an idiot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
I don't mean to offend you. I'm just saying that what I have objectively seen and heard from the band doesn't allow me to believe that Geoff is currently capable of singing the way he should. Can he have good night? Sure. Did he have some good nights during the AS tour? From what I've heard, yes. But did he have great nights? Nothing personal against you or anyone else who might make such a claim, but I have a hard time believing that. I appreciate what Geoff does. I really do. I've sung his material before, and I know how hard it is. Revolution Calling, for example, is one of the most impossibly difficult songs to sing properly for even the best singers who have a natural high tenor range. And yet, Geoff did it pretty well back on the Empire tour. Even when his voice is off, he has been able through the years to somehow get up onstage and fight his way through an entire set of really tough material, which takes a lot of effort and a lot of good technique and knowhow that most singers simply don't possess. HOWEVER, Geoff hasn't consistently used good technique in a few years, and it even shows up on the studio albums. You may call what he did on Take Cover, AS, and the new album singing "differently." And that's fine. But from a technical perspective, he isn't singing properly, and it shows in the sound. And, yes, I've seen them live since then and heard a lot of recordings. So, going back to my initial point, I don't mean to disrespect you, but I've heard and seen so much that is technically wrong with his singing nowadays that I simply can't believe he had a great show during that timeframe.
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But they don't owe us anything. It's their music after all.
That doesn't mean we can't criticize it. When you put something out there for the public, you have to be prepared to deal with how they react to it. Queensryche have put out some great music in the past, but from what we've heard so far, the new album is shaping up to be quite a turd.
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Halford's style has gotta take more of a toll on the vocal chords.
I've always felt this way about Geoff's vocal style. How could he possibly continue that style forever? Personally, I think he's intentionally changed his style. This has been evident since his solo album. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It just sounds different than before. He's still one of the best vocalists out there, despite not being near as good as the good old days.
Tater has not intentionally changed his style. His years of bad habits forced adjustments for the worse. He has admitted in interviews that he does not work with a vocal coach and does no other vocal training to keep his voice in shape. On the AS tour, he was spotted as smoking again. I am sure all the Insania and other wine he drinks doesn't help. Bottom line is that Tater did not treat is vocals like a precious instrument. Add on top of that the brutal touring schedule and you have a singer who is a shell of his former self and not someone I would think of including in the top vocalists currently offering their talents to the public.
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dongringo, nobody is calling you an idiot at all, just giving our point of views.
And IMO, Bruce has sung better in the 2000's than he did in the 1980's. Halford has gone downhill so much it's embarrasing.
This is probably the first time I've disagreed with you Wolfie. BD is a poor imitation of his 80s goods these days. He was terrible on TFF, and that was in the studio. He sounded in pain. He sounded better on the more laid back stuff though.
Back to QR, they may have the odd decent song these days but they were soo awesome back in the 80s/early 90s, the odd good song isn't going to cut it. No-one could touch them. They appear to be finished as a recording act judging by this.
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dongringo, nobody is calling you an idiot at all, just giving our point of views.
Yes, but when you basically call me a liar then you might as well be calling me an idiot who doesn't know what I'm talking about. That's why I went on the defensive and broke down the shows I've seen, just to show that I realize that Geoff isn't consistent, sometimes not good at all, but he still has his good nights. He only does it when he feels he can do it though. Sometimes he'll sing passages in a lower key because that's all he feels he can do that night. Bruce Dickensen does that as well. Another comparison between Geoff and Bruce...Iron Maiden's tours aren't nearly as grueling. They take way more days off than Queensryche, which is the point I was making about Geoff's voice not having enough rest during a tour. Of course Maiden plays to much larger crowds so I guess they can do that. Anyway, Bruce isn't always perfect. He drinks too much on tour sometimes and goes on stage with a hangover occasionally. There have been rumors about Geoff smoking, although I haven't seen any proof of that. Not saying it's not true, just not convinced. At any rate, if he was smoking, I believe he has quit because they are auctioning off a tour package for a couple to travel with them on the Priest tour, stay on their bus, eat with them, etc. and one of the rules is absolutely no smoking backstage. So if he wasn't taking care of his voice in that way, it seems he's back on track. I just wish they would take more days off, because his voice needs it. I do hope he doesn't kill his voice for good and that they come out with just one more really good QR album before their demise. But I'm not holding my breath. Unlike DT, Geoff...I mean Queensrych lol...do what they want without much regard to the fans. But they don't owe us anything. It's their music after all.
Man, I really didn't mean to offend you also. I have only seen the band once in my life, so I think I have spoken enough on the matter. The inital point bosk and I were saying was that the live concert experience enhances the bands performances, which I still believe. Of course Geoff is inconsistent and has good nights and bad nights, every singer does, he is an amazing singer that has been doing it for a long time. His voice isn't going to stay the same after almost 30 years in the business. Again, man, wasn't having a go at you personally.
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dongringo, nobody is calling you an idiot at all, just giving our point of views.
And IMO, Bruce has sung better in the 2000's than he did in the 1980's. Halford has gone downhill so much it's embarrasing.
This is probably the first time I've disagreed with you Wolfie. BD is a poor imitation of his 80s goods these days. He was terrible on TFF, and that was in the studio. He sounded in pain. He sounded better on the more laid back stuff though.
Back to QR, they may have the odd decent song these days but they were soo awesome back in the 80s/early 90s, the odd good song isn't going to cut it. No-one could touch them. They appear to be finished as a recording act judging by this.
I agree that he sounded ordinary on the final frontier. I was only talking strictly live. Studio albums there is no contest that he was better in the 80's, but now I find him more consistent live then he was back in the day. The band simply toured too much though back in the day in his defense. And you listen to Bruce on LAD and Maiden England which were well into the tour, he just sounds wrecked.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fod9kQpRQA&feature=feedu
Some of the snippets sound pretty okay.
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That was a good interview, part 1 and 2.
Thank you bosk1 and wolfking for clarifying your thoughts. Now I don't feel like I'm being ganged up on. :tup
For the record, I haven't seen a great GT performance since the Empire tour. Only one very good performance, one good, one ok, and one bad. ;)
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Man, the footage from that tour is beyond embarrassing. Queensryche have become a parody of themselves.
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Wilton Responds to Recent Interviews:
https://www.queensryche.com/2011/06/22/wilton-responds-to-recent-interviews/
I haven't read or heard any recent interviews with him. Anyone got any links?
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Man, the footage from that tour is beyond embarrassing. Queensryche have become a parody of themselves.
I agree, I just can't believe they were the same band that wrote O:M and The Warning :(
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Wilton Responds to Recent Interviews:
https://www.queensryche.com/2011/06/22/wilton-responds-to-recent-interviews/
I haven't read or heard any recent interviews with him. Anyone got any links?
here is the one I'm familiar with...
https://guitarinternational.com/2011/06/15/michael-wilton-interview-dedicated-to-chaos/
a complete 180 from what was posted at QR.com
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Wilton Responds to Recent Interviews:
https://www.queensryche.com/2011/06/22/wilton-responds-to-recent-interviews/
I haven't read or heard any recent interviews with him. Anyone got any links?
Yeah. Basically, he said that the band got together and came up with some cool ideas for the new album, and Tate basically shot them down and just did what he wanted to do (which is why you'd be hard pressed to find a Wilton riff or solo on the new album). The a few days later, he recanted what he said (no doubt because he was told to, "or else").
Original: https://www.guitarworld.com/interview-michael-wilton-queensr-che#slide-0
What was the writing process like for this record? Did you come to the band with ideas or demos that you'd been working on, or did you work on them together in the studio?
It’s kind of through the mail.
When you began the album, did you have a concept in mind or certain ideas you wanted to accomplish, or do the ideas that come out when you write dictate the direction of the album?
We had a couple of different ideas, and then the lead singer kind of changed the direction.
Retraction: https://www.queensryche.com/2011/06/22/wilton-responds-to-recent-interviews/
Wilton Responds to Recent Interviews
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From Whip's Facebook page and linked to www.queensryche.com
Got this from Whips Facebook page and link to www.queensryche.com
In reading the responses to my recent interviews I feel I would like to clear up what I believe to be a misunderstanding of a few statements I have made.
Queensryche has been a band for 30 years and we all have a great working relationship. I wouldn’t have it any other way. If I have my way, we will be making records and touring for years to come.
Dedicated to Chaos is the next chapter in the Queensryche world and I stand behind our effort 100%. There were no other songs that were scrapped or other directions turned down. We all got together and made music and Dedicated to Chaos was the result. It’s a hard rock collection that I believe really shows the bands diversity while still sticking to our Rock roots.
Thanks for all your support over the years for Queensryche and I hope to see everyone out on
the road this summer.
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Thanks for the links guys. Pretty much what I thought. I mean, everyone know GT is the MP of Queensryche. Sometimes I wonder how these dynamics end up taking root in bands. It's almost as if the biggest ego wins and the rest turn into followers with little to no influence, varying degrees depending on the band member. I'm glad Whip said what he originally said. But he should have manned up and stuck to his guns...imo. But of course that could have caused more of a rift, something I'm sure he doesn't want to deal with starting another major tour. Oh well, whatever. I guess, like he says about the Cabaret, "It is what it is."
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This is beyond disappointing. Speaking as a fan, seeing all this unfold is actually heartbreaking. I feel so bad for Wilton...
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This is beyond disappointing. Speaking as a fan, seeing all this unfold is actually heartbreaking. I feel so bad for Wilton...
I felt the same about Myung. Glad that's all over with.
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Wut.
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Wilton and Queensryche =/= Myung and Dream Theater
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In a dramatic turn of events an acquaintance of mine won this.... https://www.queensryche.com/2011/05/30/all-access-with-queensryche/
I didn't even know he was a fan of the band till he told us about it. Cool enough for him I suppose. Sounds like a very interesting trip regardless of the bands/music current state.
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That is pretty cool :tup
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Wow, Tate is really running this band into the ground. He must have flipped when he saw that interview. :lol
You know, if Wilton and the Ryche parted ways sometime in the near future, I wouldn't at all be surpised. He obviously isn't very happy and Tate and his management just give him the whip. At this stage, I'd rather hear some Wilton side project over Queensryche, espeically the way they are heading. This is coming from someone who has supported them over the last ten years of their career.
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In a dramatic turn of events an acquaintance of mine won this.... https://www.queensryche.com/2011/05/30/all-access-with-queensryche/
I didn't even know he was a fan of the band till he told us about it. Cool enough for him I suppose. Sounds like a very interesting trip regardless of the bands/music current state.
Wow, that is indeed very cool that he will be traveling with the band. What's even better is that he may pass info on to you, in which you can pass on info about the dynamics within the band to us. ;) :lol
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Wow, Tate is really running this band into the ground. He must have flipped when he saw that interview. :lol
You know, if Wilton and the Ryche parted ways sometime in the near future, I wouldn't at all be surpised. He obviously isn't very happy and Tate and his management just give him the whip. At this stage, I'd rather hear some Wilton side project over Queensryche, espeically the way they are heading. This is coming from someone who has supported them over the last ten years of their career.
As you know, I've supported the band over the last 10 years as well, and this also puts a bad taste in my mouth. But I wonder...if this album doesn't catch on, especially with their diehard fanbase, and it probably won't, that may spark a turn back in time so to speak. Either that or it will break them. Depends on Geoff's ego I suppose.
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Tate and his management just give him the whip
I see what you did there. :lol
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Wow, Tate is really running this band into the ground. He must have flipped when he saw that interview. :lol
You know, if Wilton and the Ryche parted ways sometime in the near future, I wouldn't at all be surpised. He obviously isn't very happy and Tate and his management just give him the whip. At this stage, I'd rather hear some Wilton side project over Queensryche, espeically the way they are heading. This is coming from someone who has supported them over the last ten years of their career.
As you know, I've supported the band over the last 10 years as well, and this also puts a bad taste in my mouth. But I wonder...if this album doesn't catch on, especially with their diehard fanbase, and it probably won't, that may spark a turn back in time so to speak. Either that or it will break them. Depends on Geoff's ego I suppose.
Call me a cynic, but I'd imagine them breaking up before making another album on the same level as the first five. They're so far down the road now that there's really no turning back.
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I know I'm gonna be in the minority here, but I don't think Tate has ever really had a great voice. Even in his glory days, he always sounded a bit phoney to me.
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He's never been one of my favorite singers. To be honest, I don't think he's ever been "spectacular" as a vocalist. His voice just fits the band well.
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This is beyond disappointing. Speaking as a fan, seeing all this unfold is actually heartbreaking. I feel so bad for Wilton...
I have to say I don't feel sorry for him at all. He and Edbass should man up and either put their point of view across or leave. They seem the two who are unhappy about things judging by Ed's previous apology for the album. I guess they are just employees these days, working for the man but hating their job.
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I know I'm gonna be in the minority here, but I don't think Tate has ever really had a great voice. Even in his glory days, he always sounded a bit phoney to me.
What do you mean by "phoney?"
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Maybe Eddie and Michael should join back up with Chris and find a new lead singer. :metal Unless the falling out with Chris involved them too, but I always thought it was butting heads with Geoff that Chris left. If I'm wrong I apologize!
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Wow, Tate is really running this band into the ground. He must have flipped when he saw that interview. :lol
You know, if Wilton and the Ryche parted ways sometime in the near future, I wouldn't at all be surpised. He obviously isn't very happy and Tate and his management just give him the whip. At this stage, I'd rather hear some Wilton side project over Queensryche, espeically the way they are heading. This is coming from someone who has supported them over the last ten years of their career.
As you know, I've supported the band over the last 10 years as well, and this also puts a bad taste in my mouth. But I wonder...if this album doesn't catch on, especially with their diehard fanbase, and it probably won't, that may spark a turn back in time so to speak. Either that or it will break them. Depends on Geoff's ego I suppose.
Call me a cynic, but I'd imagine them breaking up before making another album on the same level as the first five. They're so far down the road now that there's really no turning back.
I agree. I don't see them going back to metal of any form.
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But the last two studio albums were metal. Why wouldn't they make another one? Unless Geoff is done with metal that is, but I doubt that's the case as they will still be playing their metal stuff on tour.
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I have to say I don't feel sorry for him at all. He and Edbass should man up and either put their point of view across or leave. They seem the two who are unhappy about things judging by Ed's previous apology for the album. I guess they are just employees these days, working for the man but hating their job.
This is the way I see it as well. What kind of contract did they sign that took away their input? Or is Geoff so OCD controlling that they just gave in?
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Go easy on Tate. After all, he's a hotspot junkie with a loaded gun. He's livin' on the EDGE man. EXTREME surfing to the wicked awesome max. Look out, he'll p0wn you with his mega ultra laptop, man.
Nope. No matter how cheesy I make this post, I simply don't have the adjectives to compete with the utter shit masquerading as Queensryche lyrics these days. These guys died after Promised Land. I don't even know who they are anymore.
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I agree they died with Promised Land, but were resurrected with OM2 and AS with outside help. I really don't mind a band changing directions musically, challenging themselves, or just doing something different because they want to. But when a band doesn't write their own music, or one or two members take control of everything, it will take its toll. Still curious to hear the whole album though. I'm sure it will have it's moments. Not expecting a lot of distortion though. :lol
As far as Hot Spot Junkie, Journey wrote a song about the exact same thing on their new album with similar cheesy lyrics (Human Feel) and nobody is saying anything about it. But I guess it's because it's Journey, who aren't known for writing anything too deep. Just an observation. ;)
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Journey are an AOR band. With melodic/AOR bands, lyrical content is always pretty simplistic and often cheesy, it just comes with the music. Plus Journey were a band writing a lot of songs about love, positive spirit, doing your best, and all that comes with it. Journey were never really known for their thought provoking lyrics, it's their sound, melodies, Perry's voice and sometimes, the occasional positive lyric.
Queensryche did stuff like RFO, Empire and Operation Mindcrime where they wrote some amazing, deep lyrics and addressed some heavy political issues. Those lyrics to the new song is just embarrasing, and looking at those lyrics compared to the Journey ones, Journey's are excellent in comparison.
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I wonder who actually wrote the lyrics to Hot Spot Junkie. When Geoff says it was written for headphones on the go he wasn't joking. Nothing thought provoking about those lyrics at all. When I first read that it was a headphone album, I was thinking about my expensive headphone setup at home where I have listening sessions and really enjoy hearing everything in the music. Unfortunately, that's not what he was referring to. He was referring to walking around with a cheapo ipod and cheapo ibuds. Well, that just sucks.
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But that's exactly indicative of what's been wrong with Queensryche for so long. It seems that they (especially GT) keeps trying to figure out what's "now." Like, "Hey, people listen to music on the subway to work - let's make an album that will fit THAT!" As if trying to create a mood to fit the populations listening environment is going to land them a hit. Bringing in writers to "capture" the Queensryche sound. They ARE Queensryche - they don't know or can't capture how THEY THEMSELVES sound???!!!!
The way they keep overcalculating and scheming, trying to figure out how to make and market a hit album not only smacks of desperation and commercialism (the latter not necessarily an evil) makes me so sad for them. They are completely on the outside looking in at this point - looking in on the music business, their fanbase, and apparently even themselves. They have no artistic vision beyond making an album that will appeal to someone. Who should it appeal to? Not their old fanbase - we're exasperated with them. Not a new fanbase - no one outside of the Empire era fans even knows or remembers who they are. Not the radio - despite their best efforts, they can't land a hit because most of what they do is forced and artificial. It would seem to me that the obvious solution is to simply make an album for themselves - one that represents who they truly are, reflects their own musical taste, and is an honest artistic expression of a band that at this point should be mature and confident enough in themselves to just do what comes naturally and not worry about the rest. Instead, for the last 10 years they've come off like a balding middle-aged guy in a convertible listening to Lady Gaga and cruising college frat houses for chicks. It's hard to watch. I think they've so completely lost track of who they are and what made them great, that they don't even know how to get back there.
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That's why I don't get the "they change their sound" argument. It's not them changing the sound, it's whoever is writing their music. If they got together and jammed out an album together it might sound like QR, you never know. Not gonna happen I know, as they don't seem to get on. Michael Wilton can write great riffs, at least once upon a time- I don't get it. Unless Tate wants the publishing for himself and pays the outside writers less than MW would get.
Maybe MP thought he was in QR.
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It would seem to me that the obvious solution is to simply make an album for themselves - one that represents who they truly are, reflects their own musical taste, and is an honest artistic expression of a band that at this point should be mature and confident enough in themselves to just do what comes naturally and not worry about the rest.
Emphasis on "obvious." ;)
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Man, the footage from that tour is beyond embarrassing. Queensryche have become a parody of themselves.
They have indeed.
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Man, the footage from that tour is beyond embarrassing. Queensryche have become a parody of themselves.
I agree, I just can't believe they were the same band that wrote O:M and The Warning :(
They aren't. Wilton and Degarmo didn't write anything for Dedicated to Chaos. And musically, those were the two who wrote all the music to those two records (aside from a brief segue section).
That's what the casual fan of QR doesn't understand. Queensryche hasn't been a band since 2003. When Degarmo left them again, it became Geoff's band. He's written with outside writers since then, and while Mindcrime II (Hostage is band-written, but it was originally meant for Tribe), American Soldier and Dedicated 2 Chaos are under the "Queensryche" name, they are essentially solo albums, featuring PERFORMANCES from members of Queensryche.
The main music songwriters of Queensryche from 1981-1997 and 2003's Tribe were Degarmo and Wilton. neither of the two have written a note for Queensryche in two albums.
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At least if they were like Tate's solo album, I would still be happier because it had some great songs. Who wrote the songs for that one and is GT still working with them? Doesn't sound like it to me.
(oh, just saw I'm not DT/net/dtf.org alumni vet etc, sadface)
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It would seem to me that the obvious solution is to simply make an album for themselves - one that represents who they truly are, reflects their own musical taste, and is an honest artistic expression of a band that at this point should be mature and confident enough in themselves to just do what comes naturally and not worry about the rest.
Emphasis on "obvious." ;)
They tried that. it was Tribe, and they nearly imploded before Chris came in and helped them salvage the ideas. at that point, Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield had written songs for the album together...Geoff didn't like it. Then they re-wrote it, Geoff still didn't like it, and tried to get outside writers in. At that point, Chris heard what they were doing, was intrigued by the theme (a total guess on my part, but QR was recording with Adam Kasper, who is a friend of Chris', so he probably told Chris about it), and Chris extended the olive branch to get with them again.
For various reasons, it didn't work out, but Chris' involvement made that album actually HAPPEN, albeit in an incomplete form.
Tate just doesn't connect with Wilton at all, musically it seems any longer. And Tate calls the shots. So if he wants to go to outside writers, that's what he'll do. They come cheaper.
It's pathetic.
Thank God the original lineup of QR was as good as they were. That material sits on a level all its own.
Abydos -- if Tate would have called MC II, American Soldier, and D2C solo records, I would have a lot more respect for him, and have supported the efforts more. One of the guys on his actual solo record, Jeff Carrel (sp), wrote one of the tunes on D2C. I forget which one. One of the riffier ones if I recall.
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I remember Jason Slater mentioning that Geoff is the one who has to sing and sell the stuff on stage every night so he has to like it. I suppose there is the possibility that that Wilton / Jackson just can't or don't write anything that Geoff likes anymore. Too bad we can't hear what their ideas were.
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To be honest i have been listening to this cd for a few days now (pre order came 2 days ago) and i must say, this us the first album since Empire that i actually really like.
Got the special edition which i recommend and apart from GT obvious struggle with his voice aging, he does a great job and the music is actually quite good (apart from some sub-par songs and corny vocals).
Listen to it really loud or through good headphones (preferably with the special edition bonus songs) and apart from some really corny bits and a few dodgy songs, there are some real gems on here.
Highlights: Hot spot junkie, At the edge, Broken, Get started (reminds me of old school QR).
Its still sinking in but its not the disaster everyone is making it out to be, give it a chance its not bad at all and quite fun!!
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Good news LTE. I am still really eager to get it and give it a good spin. I'm gonna give it a really good chance. And Get Started is an excellent track.
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I've listened to the new album a couple of times and it saddens me that there isn't ONE song that I can honestly say I like. Some songs get stuck in your head, but not in a good way. I don't really hear anything associated with what made Queensryche the success they were. A gigantic failed experiment for sure.
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Ok, I've listened to it once through with an open mind and here's my opinion:
DTC pretty much sucks. First of all, this truly is a GT solo record in every sense of the word, but it's not even a good GT solo record. This album is boring! It's so unbelievably boring it's unbelievable. A huge disappointment. I'll give it another spin, but I seriously doubt it will change my view.
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I actually like at least half of the album and I don't think it's their worst (that would be Tribe). I'm especially impressed with Drive, At the Edge, Hard Times, The Lie, Big Noize, and Broken; they are all interesting, fresh, and catchy in my opinion. However, like the rest of you, I really wish this could have just been Geoff Tate's 2nd solo album. Queensryche's audience has been deserting them for obvious reasons and they continue to ignore all the valid advice, so it's hard to sympathize with them if this is actually the final nail in the coffin. I really wish Michael and Eddie could have done something. I felt so embarrassed for them to be a part of the Cabaret and that unforgiving Wot We Do video. I am really interested to see how this tour goes and what the attendance is like.
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I have to say I don't feel sorry for him at all. He and Edbass should man up and either put their point of view across or leave. They seem the two who are unhappy about things judging by Ed's previous apology for the album. I guess they are just employees these days, working for the man but hating their job.
This is the way I see it as well. What kind of contract did they sign that took away their input? Or is Geoff so OCD controlling that they just gave in?
To add to what Samsara said above: I doubt there is anything contractual that actually took away their input. But here's the reality of how Queensryche is structured as a corporate entity: The best-case scenario is that Tate and Rockenfield together own 50%, with Ed and Whip owning the other 50%. When it comes to band decisions, Scott will almost always side with Tate because he knows where his bread is buttered and because his wife and Susan are VERY tight. So in this situation, 50% of the band (Geoff and Scott) feel strongly that they want to go a certain direction. The other 50% (Whip and Ed) don't, but if they don't go along, the band is deadlocked, which means nothing gets done and they don't have a much-needed paycheck rolling in. They don't have the outside projects and income streams that Geoff and Scott have built up over the years, so they would suffer if they didn't just go along for the ride. So when you have a couple of guys that are already somewhat passive in their personalities, it is much easier to be nonconfrontational than to try to go against the grain.
But let's imagine a different scenario, and we have to go back over a decade to Chris' departure here, so let's fire up the wayback machine. With Chris in the band, the band is actually owned equally by 5 individuals. Let's assume just so we're dealing with easy numbers, that you have 100 shares divided equally (20 per person). When Chris leaves, what do they do with his shares? In the previous paragraph, the "best case" scenario for the others is that the shares were either retired, or were bought equally by the remaining 4 members. But what if Geoff bought them all? He now has a 40% interest (and 40% of the vote). Coupled with Scott, it's a 60% majority. Now who is in control? Or maybe Geoff doesn't buy them all, but they decide to take Chris' shares and divide them 5 ways. Why 5? Because Susan Tate is taking such a HUGE role in managing the band that she deserves to have a tiny ownership slice, so why not give her 4%? Now you have an ownership structure like this:
-Geoff Tate: 24%
-Scott Rockenfield: 24%
-Michael Wilton: 24%
-Eddie Jackson: 24%
-Susan Tate: 4%
Guess what? The Tate/Rockenfield voting block is now a majority of 52% to Ed/Whip's 48%. This is how corporations are taken over very subtly, and I'm guessing something similar could have happened here.
So why are the band making the decisions they are making? Because while the band's legacy is firmly rooted in metal, Geoff isn't a metalhead to the core and is more interested in making what he considers "art," whether it be the music itself or the presentation. He is pursuing what he wants to pursue, and he knows a certain number of people will support the band regardless of what they do. Besides, the more "casual" fans out there don't really care about any new QR material. They want to come to a show and hear the hits. So if QR can put out an album for the purpose of getting out on tour, and they know the vast majority of the set will be the hits and classics, that's all that matters. No matter how the new album sounds, they have a reason to get out on the road and make money.
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Nicely said, bosk1. Nail on the head.
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So why are the band making the decisions they are making? Because while the band's legacy is firmly rooted in metal, Geoff isn't a metalhead to the core and is more interested in making what he considers "art," whether it be the music itself or the presentation. He is pursuing what he wants to pursue, and he knows a certain number of people will support the band regardless of what they do. Besides, the more "casual" fans out there don't really care about any new QR material. They want to come to a show and hear the hits. So if QR can put out an album for the purpose of getting out on tour, and they know the vast majority of the set will be the hits and classics, that's all that matters. No matter how the new album sounds, they have a reason to get out on the road and make money.
Makes perfect sense.
Someone just posted this to RR on DT's youtube channel in the OTBOA comment section:
"please drop Queensryche after the steaming pile that is dedicated to choas"
:rollin
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new album would be amazing if not for those silly tech no bits...
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Here's an Amazon.com review for the new album:
I remember now, I remember how it started, I can't remember yesterday, I just remember liking what they told me
Made me chuckle.
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....Good lord
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=160122
QUEENSRźCHE: See Band's New Video, But Only If You Can Prove You Purchased New Album - June 30, 2011
"Get Started", the new video from Seattle progressive rockers QUEENSRźCHE, can be seen using the widget below. However, in order to see the clip, you have to first "validate" your purchase of the band's new album, "Dedicated To Chaos".
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I think RR are deliberately running QR into the ground so they can relieve them of their contracts before they expire. This is just outright hilarious.
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Either that, or the band knows that everyone hates the new album and they just want to fuck with us.
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Although I can understand why QR fans might get a bit pissy, I wish this is something more bands would do. If they make a video with no attempt at actually getting it mass play I'd rather it go to the fans who are actually supporting the band than everyone who wants to see it. The problem in this case is QR is hardly worth anyone's support anymore.
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This was too good not to repost here:
Dear Queensryche management:
Yesterday Dream Theater premiered a new song from their new album FOR FREE, received over 290,000 views in about 24 hrs, with a 96% positive review.
You on the other hand expect people to pay to see a video from an album that is being harshly criticized by not only your fans but the music public in general. :doh:
Enjoy your early retirement.
Sincerely,
A Fan No Longer.
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This was too good not to repost here:
Dear Queensryche management:
Yesterday Dream Theater premiered a new song from their new album FOR FREE, received over 290,000 views in about 24 hrs, with a 96% positive review.
You on the other hand expect people to pay to see a video from an album that is being harshly criticized by not only your fans but the music public in general. :doh:
Enjoy your early retirement.
Sincerely,
A Fan No Longer.
Your welcome. ;)
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This was too good not to repost here:
Dear Queensryche management:
Yesterday Dream Theater premiered a new song from their new album FOR FREE, received over 290,000 views in about 24 hrs, with a 96% positive review.
You on the other hand expect people to pay to see a video from an album that is being harshly criticized by not only your fans but the music public in general. :doh:
Enjoy your early retirement.
Sincerely,
A Fan No Longer.
Your welcome. ;)
:lol Ouch.
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Way to overreact ::) there businessmen what should they do?? they already have plenty of fans and it discourages children from downloading ilegally.
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....Good lord
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=160122
QUEENSRźCHE: See Band's New Video, But Only If You Can Prove You Purchased New Album - June 30, 2011
"Get Started", the new video from Seattle progressive rockers QUEENSRźCHE, can be seen using the widget below. However, in order to see the clip, you have to first "validate" your purchase of the band's new album, "Dedicated To Chaos".
Yeah that's it, i'm done with this band. >:(
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This was too good not to repost here:
Dear Queensryche management:
Yesterday Dream Theater premiered a new song from their new album FOR FREE, received over 290,000 views in about 24 hrs, with a 96% positive review.
You on the other hand expect people to pay to see a video from an album that is being harshly criticized by not only your fans but the music public in general. :doh:
Enjoy your early retirement.
Sincerely,
A Fan No Longer.
Your welcome. ;)
Next time, save the good stuff for the good forum. ;)
Hey, at least I credited you and didn't try to claim it as my own.
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:lol Ouch.
??? Ouch what? I credited him in the quote.
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:lol Ouch.
??? Ouch what? I credited him in the quote.
No, I mean, ouch on the content of the letter towards Queensryche. I fully support it, reading that you have to validate a purchase to see a video is bullshit.
I probably should have just quoted you bosk, apologies.
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Way to overreact ::) there businessmen what should they do?? they already have plenty of fans and it discourages children from downloading ilegally.
it's horrible PR thats why. They should be using the internet to help them, not hurt them.
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they dont need any help
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they dont need any help
Yeah, they really do. Their ticket sales and album sales numbers have been declining with each successive album. They desperately need all the positive promotion they can get. Videos have always been used to generate interest and promote an album. If I were on the fence about buying the album, I surely wouldn't be saying to myself right now, "Oh, well I guess I better go buy this now so I can see this here video the band has locked away." As has become typical in the QR camp, their management has it completely backwards.
@Whichever of Susan's minions reads this (yes, I know you are here): Please pass this post on to her in its entirety. Tell her it's courtesy of the guy she hooked up in Portland who WAS (past tense) her biggest fan.
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:rollin
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Way to overreact ::) there businessmen what should they do?? they already have plenty of fans and it discourages children from downloading ilegally.
But that is not the point of doing a music video. A music video is kind of like a trailer for the album. You get to hear a song from the album, and you get a sense of the band, their style and what they are all about. Back in the 80's and early 90's, one of the main ways you discovered new bands (for better or worse) was by watching MTV. You didn't have to pay to see a particular band's new vid, you just tuned in and checked it out. Making you buy the album to watch the video is like making you buy a movie to watch the trailer; it's an ass-backwards way of doing business and making money. And frankly, I don't see how making the video bonus content for loyal customers will impact piracy in any serious way: in an age when you can download entire movies via torrent, I doubt there is much hassle in downloading a Queensryche music video either.
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A music video is a piece of promotional material, nobody should have to pay to see one, that's absurd.
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So get this. I wasted my hard earned cash on their ****** album via Amazon mp3 download, something I rarely do as 256 kbps variable bit rate is ****** quality. Never the less, I just wanted to see if I could watch their ****** video since I paid for their ****** album and guess what? I can't because their ****** system only confirms itunes mp3 or cd purchases. So I bought their ****** album and I can't watch ****....not that I wanted to anyway.
Sorry for all the ************. I thought it'd be overkill if I actually typed the words.
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So get this. I wasted my hard earned cash on their ****** album via Amazon mp3 download, something I rarely do as 256 kbps variable bit rate is ****** quality. Never the less, I just wanted to see if I could watch their ****** video since I paid for their ****** album and guess what? I can't because their ****** system only confirms itunes mp3 or cd purchases. So I bought their ****** album and I can't watch ****....not that I wanted to anyway.
Sorry for all the ************. I thought it'd be overkill if I actually typed the words.
U mad bro?
Give it time and it will be on youtube anyway. You know, even after all this I will still buy this piece of crap once it hits the stores here, I'm eager to listen to it.
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https://www.queensryche.com/2011/06/30/get-started-music-video/
I love how it says validate to unlock exclusive content. Since when is a promotional video exclusive content? :lol
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its obviously not PROMOTIONAL if there doing it this way. Just because others videos are doesnt mean this one is
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You know, even after all this I will store buy this piece of crap once it hits the stores here, I'm eager to listen to it.
This is the very first time ever I will not buy one of their albums. I refuse to put another dime in their pockets.
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its obviously not PROMOTIONAL if there doing it this way. Just because others videos are doesnt mean this one is
Dude, so every other music video on the planet is free promotional material besides Queensryche's new video, give me a break. I know you are obviously defending them, and that's great, but I've seen this band through all the hard times over the last 12 years and supported them fully, but enough is enough. Geoff and his wife need to get their heads out of their own asses and realise they need to work hard at promoting their band, because really, as bosk said, they are just going down further and further. As I said though, I will pay full price for the album, I'll give them some money and really give it a chance, but all our opinions on here about the poor management of the band at the moment, are completely valid.
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You know, even after all this I will store buy this piece of crap once it hits the stores here, I'm eager to listen to it.
:lol You're funny man.
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You know, even after all this I will still buy this piece of crap once it hits the stores here, I'm eager to listen to it.
This is the very first time ever I will not buy one of their albums. I refuse to put another dime in their pockets.
I commend that bosk, I really do. I'm just a weak sucker. :( I will offer a full review once I have it though, positive or negative.
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You know, even after all this I will still buy this piece of crap once it hits the stores here, I'm eager to listen to it.
:lol You're funny man.
:lol Cheers. I still want to give it a shot. Has anyone else on here got it yet, or am I gonna be the only sucker who will be $20 down? :lol
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Ok, I gave it another couple spins and here's my review:
1. Get Started - decent enough song and single, like the bass lines, fun but not QR
2. Hot Spot Junkie - like this EJ song musically somewhat, very cheesy lyrics...can't get past them
3. Got It Bad - is what the title says it is
4. Around the World - catchy vocal melodies, musically appalling, lyrics will never change the world
5. Higher - sucks big time, who's Randy Gane anyway?
6. Retail Therapy - like the bass lines once again, cheesy lyrics, gets old fast
7. At the Edge - now this one sounds more like QR than most of the album, I quite like this GT song actually, a grower
8. Broken - one of only two songs that I actually like on the album and it's a Randy Gane song....bonus song at that, very melancholic, doesn't fit anywhere on the album though
9. Hard Times - so boring it almost put me to sleep, easy listening at best
10. Drive - catchy rhythmic beat, can't get past the cheesy lyrics once again
11. I Believe - uninspiring in every way, why would anyone want someone else's songs on their (his) album when they suck so bad?
12. Luvin U - see 11 above
13. Wot We Do - see 11 above
14. I Take You - see 11 above
15. The Lie - if this and HSJ are the best EJ had for the album there's a reason for the lack of influence within the band, really boring song in every way, shape and form
16. Big Noize - sounds like a b-side from GT's solo album, has potential as a song but ultimately ends up as boring and unmemorable as the rest of the album....and no....it won't change the world
GT - huge step down in vocal delivery, sounds depressed, social commentary makes him sound like an old man with nothing to do
SR - uninspired drumming, expected much more from him, guess he did what he could with what he was given though
EJ - did what he could with what he was given, problem is that his two contributions weren't worthy of a QR album either
MW - practically non-existent, didn't write any guitar parts or anything else
PL - don't know, a good employee I guess
Album as a whole. Mostly an uninspired mess of songs that don't fit together regardless of the album concept. A couple of decent songs/moments, but that's it. This is the best they could come up with? Why even bother. See title of song 9 above.
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You know, even after all this I will store buy this piece of crap once it hits the stores here, I'm eager to listen to it.
This is the very first time ever I will not buy one of their albums. I refuse to put another dime in their pockets.
This ... Three albums ago. Despite a couple of dim (I can't even call them "bright") spots in Mindcrime II, that was the nail in the coffin for me. Haven't even touched AS or TC.
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Ok, I gave it another couple spins and here's my review:
1. Get Started - decent enough song and single, like the bass lines, fun but not QR
2. Hot Spot Junkie - like this EJ song musically somewhat, very cheesy lyrics...can't get past them
3. Got It Bad - is what the title says it is
4. Around the World - catchy vocal melodies, musically appalling, lyrics will never change the world
5. Higher - sucks big time, who's Randy Gane anyway?
6. Retail Therapy - like the bass lines once again, cheesy lyrics, gets old fast
7. At the Edge - now this one sounds more like QR than most of the album, I quite like this GT song actually, a grower
8. Broken - one of only two songs that I actually like on the album and it's a Randy Gane song....bonus song at that, very melancholic, doesn't fit anywhere on the album though
9. Hard Times - so boring it almost put me to sleep, easy listening at best
10. Drive - catchy rhythmic beat, can't get past the cheesy lyrics once again
11. I Believe - uninspiring in every way, why would anyone want someone else's songs on their (his) album when they suck so bad?
12. Luvin U - see 11 above
13. Wot We Do - see 11 above
14. I Take You - see 11 above
15. The Lie - if this and HSJ are the best EJ had for the album there's a reason for the lack of influence within the band, really boring song in every way, shape and form
16. Big Noize - sounds like a b-side from GT's solo album, has potential as a song but ultimately ends up as boring and unmemorable as the rest of the album....and no....it won't change the world
GT - huge step down in vocal delivery, sounds depressed, social commentary makes him sound like an old man with nothing to do
SR - uninspired drumming, expected much more from him, guess he did what he could with what he was given though
EJ - did what he could with what he was given, problem is that his two contributions weren't worthy of a QR album either
MW - practically non-existent, didn't write any guitar parts or anything else
PL - don't know, a good employee I guess
Album as a whole. Mostly an uninspired mess of songs that don't fit together regardless of the album concept. A couple of decent songs/moments, but that's it. This is the best they could come up with? Why even bother. See title of song 9 above.
Wow, this must be bad, coming from you dude. Can't wait to feast my ears! :lol
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You know, even after all this I will store buy this piece of crap once it hits the stores here, I'm eager to listen to it.
This is the very first time ever I will not buy one of their albums. I refuse to put another dime in their pockets.
This ... Three albums ago. Despite a couple of dim (I can't even call them "bright") spots in Mindcrime II, that was the nail in the coffin for me. Haven't even touched AS or TC.
AS was pretty damn good, definitely a step in the right direction. If DTC is as bad as people are saying it is, it's a HUGE step down.
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You know, even after all this I will still buy this piece of crap once it hits the stores here, I'm eager to listen to it.
This is the very first time ever I will not buy one of their albums. I refuse to put another dime in their pockets.
I commend that bosk, I really do. I'm just a weak sucker. :( I will offer a full review once I have it though, positive or negative.
I don't blame you one bit for buying it if that's what you want to do. I've just gotten to a point where enough is enough and I feel like the band has long gone past the point of doing anything I am interested in supporting.
AS was pretty damn good, definitely a step in the right direction. If DTC is as bad as people are saying it is, it's a HUGE step down.
I actually liked AS a lot, with one exception: Geoff's vocal delivery was horrible. If he refuses to take care of his voice AND refuses to take direction during the recording of an album, then he has squandered his very precious talent. If you are a professional who takes pride in your work, there is no way you can release some of the vocal performances that are on Take Cover and American Soldier with a straight face. Geoff knows how to sing properly, and there is no reason he can't do so in studio where you can take your time to make sure you are doing things right. And Geoff also has the ability to redo lines as many times as necessary so that he doesn't sound like he rolled out of bed and delivered some songs in one take without a warmup. But other than that, VERY good album. There are a couple of artistic decisions I disagree with, but the band are entitled to do things fans may not agree with, so it's fine.
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Imagine all bands having done this back in the day on MTV:
"Up next: the new Tears for Fears video. To view this video, please enter the sales receipt number of your purchase on your special MTV remote to view this video. If you don't, enjoy special footage of Boy George putting on his makeup."
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Imagine all bands having done this back in the day on MTV:
"Up next: the new Tears for Fears video. To view this video, please enter the sales receipt number of your purchase on your special MTV remote to view this video. If you don't, enjoy special footage of Boy George putting on his makeup."
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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Imagine all bands having done this back in the day on MTV:
"Up next: the new Tears for Fears video. To view this video, please enter the sales receipt number of your purchase on your special MTV remote to view this video. If you don't, enjoy special footage of Boy George putting on his makeup."
:lol
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You know, even after all this I will still buy this piece of crap once it hits the stores here, I'm eager to listen to it.
This is the very first time ever I will not buy one of their albums. I refuse to put another dime in their pockets.
I commend that bosk, I really do. I'm just a weak sucker. :( I will offer a full review once I have it though, positive or negative.
I don't blame you one bit for buying it if that's what you want to do. I've just gotten to a point where enough is enough and I feel like the band has long gone past the point of doing anything I am interested in supporting.
AS was pretty damn good, definitely a step in the right direction. If DTC is as bad as people are saying it is, it's a HUGE step down.
I actually liked AS a lot, with one exception: Geoff's vocal delivery was horrible. If he refuses to take care of his voice AND refuses to take direction during the recording of an album, then he has squandered his very precious talent. If you are a professional who takes pride in your work, there is no way you can release some of the vocal performances that are on Take Cover and American Soldier with a straight face. Geoff knows how to sing properly, and there is no reason he can't do so in studio where you can take your time to make sure you are doing things right. And Geoff also has the ability to redo lines as many times as necessary so that he doesn't sound like he rolled out of bed and delivered some songs in one take without a warmup. But other than that, VERY good album. There are a couple of artistic decisions I disagree with, but the band are entitled to do things fans may not agree with, so it's fine.
I agree with all of this. Geoff did sound very weak, and could have done a lot better. Take Cover he just sounded awful. One great thing about AS was Wilton really getting in some amazing guitar solos, obviously that will be missed on DTC.
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Imagine all bands having done this back in the day on MTV:
"Up next: the new Tears for Fears video. To view this video, please enter the sales receipt number of your purchase on your special MTV remote to view this video. If you don't, enjoy special footage of Boy George putting on his makeup."
:lol Tears for Fears FTW, amazing band.
But really, you prove the point of the whole argument, well done.
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[In Roland Orzabal and Curt Smith singing voice] Sue and Misty want to rule the world...
(https://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/bosk1/Queensryche/SttS.jpg)
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:lol
I didn't really dig Slave to the System. A gave their album a go, but it just didn't do it for me.
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Imagine all bands having done this back in the day on MTV:
"Up next: the new Tears for Fears video. To view this video, please enter the sales receipt number of your purchase on your special MTV remote to view this video. If you don't, enjoy special footage of Boy George putting on his makeup."
Funny, but hardly a fair comparison and you know it. :p
Once again, I don't see what's wrong with releasing bonus content for people who have bought an album. Remember Dream Theater did it back with Train of Thought and the videos associated with that album.
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Remember Dream Theater did it back with Train of Thought and the videos associated with that album.
Not with a music video.
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Remember Dream Theater did it back with Train of Thought and the videos associated with that album.
Not with a music video.
So?
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Queensryche - music video promo
Reminds me of an apple.
Train of Thought
Oh, look! An orange! These two things are not very similar.
:D
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Remember Dream Theater did it back with Train of Thought and the videos associated with that album.
Not with a music video.
So?
It just seems like 2 very different things: one of your music videos vs. some behind-the-scenes "making of" footage. Making the latter only available with purchase makes sense to me; making your song video so just seems lame. Not that I really care one way or another.
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Imagine all bands having done this back in the day on MTV:
"Up next: the new Tears for Fears video. To view this video, please enter the sales receipt number of your purchase on your special MTV remote to view this video. If you don't, enjoy special footage of Boy George putting on his makeup."
:rollin :rollin
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Damn, didn't find DTC in store this weekend. :( Will try again next weeked.
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Damn, didn't find DTC in store this weekend. :( Will try again next weeked.
Take it as fate and spend it on the new Night Ranger instead. A perfect example of a classic band giving their fans what they want and doing it with love.
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They either
1. Sold all the copies in stock
or
2. Didn't stock any because they knew no one would buy them
#2 seems more probable
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Seriously Wolf, buy a few 24 packs of water instead. At least you know you wont be wasting your money, and it's healthy!
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Damn, didn't find DTC in store this weekend. :( Will try again next weeked.
Spend them on the Steam summer sale, much better way to lose your money!
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Thanks for all the positive persuasions guys. :heart :lol
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I broke down and ordered this... we shall see next week if it's as bad as it seems it could be.
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I broke down and ordered this... we shall see next week if it's as bad as it seems it could be.
:tup Look forward to your thoughts Nick.
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My brother WAS more of a Ryche fan than me. Well, he hasn't been able to listen to DTC due to recovering after recently getting out of the hospital. Today, wearing his QR shirt, he finally had a chance to listen to it. He's in the living room listening to it now on $1000 Audeze LCD-2 headphones and Meier headphone amp. I went in to see how it was going. He had 2 songs left and said, "What a disaster. I don't know if I can listen to the last two songs."
Enough said. :rollin
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I broke down and ordered this... we shall see next week if it's as bad as it seems it could be.
Way to wimp-out. At least give it a shit review on your site, then. Ki needs to stop being your lowest review anyway :biggrin:
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It might be bad, but I doubt it's Ki bad. :p
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I actually bought the special edition a few days back. Haven't listened to it yet. After looking around on various forums, now I'm kind of dreading listening to it. But so be it.
I like the album cover. So there's one positive at least. :lol
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Saw this review on Amazon:
"Another name for feces"
:rollin I think that sums it up.
Btw, I asked my brother if he liked any of the songs on DTC and he simply said, "Not one."
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Very frustrating to see this happen to QR. This is a band that made amazing music that made them stand out from the rest of the pack; they were also seemingly well respected by musicians from all genres. The decline has been obvious and pointed out to by fans since HITNF. The fanbase is dwindling to shockingly low numbers; this same fanbase would have remained if QR put out full solid discs-instead of inconsistency. Reading the horrific reviews should be a wake up call for the band.
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As a fan of Queensrcyche, I have to say, I'm actually insulted by this release. To think I actually stood up for them while they put together this heap. I know I was the one who was saying, "They don't owe us anything." But this is just insulting to their fans. It really is. Yes, I gave it one more shot. And it's a 0 out of 10.
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And it's a 0 out of 10.
:omg:
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It causes me great pain that a band I worshipped has sunk so far. I would rate it a t 3/10, just because the first song is ok and the U2 song is fairly catchy. :sad: The rest is plain awful. I'm going to have to play Mindcrime now to get rid of the memory.
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Congratulations to Samsara for getting one of the most helpful reviews on Amazon!
Of course...it's an unfortunate honor, but still, good going. Nice review.
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The lyrics. I seriously cannot get over those lyrics. Most of them sound like a bunch of old, grumpy men shaking their fist angrily at some kids and puncturing their football out of spite.
And they are horribly written too. Seriously, that second song alone actually made me dumber.
"The world wide web has the local news on joe-hoeeeetjoeeeeeeeb"
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that second song alone actually made me dumber.
And that's an Eddie Jackson song. Shocking isn't it?
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The album has two stars on amazon...
I've never seen anything like it in my life...
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Listened to this thing a couple of times now. "Retail Therapy" and "At the Edge" are great songs. The rest is pure garbage. One of my favorite bands, but yeah, the 1 and 2 star ratings are correct.
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The album has two stars on amazon...
I've never seen anything like it in my life...
AllMusic gave it a three star review...
https://www.allmusic.com/album/dedicated-to-chaos-r2197774/review
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Allmusic also called "Test for Echo" one of Rush's best albums :P
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Congratulations to Samsara for getting one of the most helpful reviews on Amazon!
Of course...it's an unfortunate honor, but still, good going. Nice review.
Thanks. I thought the review was pretty fair.
For all those that want to read my thoughts on this album:
https://www.amazon.com/review/R28T2I0L3M5251/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B004Z188BI&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=
Please click "yes" if you found it helpful. If not, the other option exists. :)
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Done. :tup
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I will say this. There is an extremely highly probable chance that I will never listen to the physical copy of DTC ever again in my life. I actually hate this "thing". I will listen to "Retail Therapy" and "At the Edge" on a semi regular basis on my ipod; both are very good songs and the only two that stood out to me on the disc. The disc itself will become a dust collector from this point forward. Who is this crapola supposed to cater too? Seriously. It alienated 99% of their fanbase. It possibly, and this estimate is being very generous, will garner them maybe one dozen new fans throughout the world.
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I will say this. There is an extremely highly probable chance that I will never listen to the physical copy of DTC ever again in my life. I actually hate this "thing". The disc itself will become a dust collector from this point forward. Who is this crapola supposed to cater too? Seriously. It alienated 99% of their fanbase. It possibly, and this estimate is being very generous, will garner them maybe one dozen new fans throughout the world.
:rollin
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It alienated 99% of their fanbase.
Got that right. I too will never listen to this piece of crap again. I might single out At the Edge. But that's it. I feel like they took my money and gave me nothing in return.
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The album has two stars on amazon...
I've never seen anything like it in my life...
AllMusic gave it a three star review...
https://www.allmusic.com/album/dedicated-to-chaos-r2197774/review
AllMusic gave Rage for Order only 2 stars and gave Take Cover 3.5 stars, so I wouldn't exactly call their reviews definitive.
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Manager Susan Tate, who's married to singer Geoff Tate and has been handling QUEENSRźCHE for about 10 years, says, "QUEENSRźCHE doesn't want to put their name on as many things as they can. There's a quality to them, and they really care about their music. It's not about, 'How can we sell out as quick as possible and make the most money that we can?'"
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=160318
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:rollin ^ That's really funny.
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Well, i'm sure they're convinced Dedicated to Chaos is of high artistic quality.
Wait, that makes it even funnier.
Joeehoeeeeeee-tjoeeeeeeb!
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QUEENSRźCHE: 'Dedicated To Chaos' First-Week Sales Revealed - July 6, 2011
"Dedicated To Chaos", the new album from Seattle progressive rockers QUEENSRźCHE, sold 8,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to land at position No. 70 on The Billboard 200 chart.
source: Blabbermouth
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A lousy 8,000 copies sold in the US compared with 21,000 for American Soldier.
A total bomb.
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Ouch. Time to learn a lesson, I guess.
Wow. I am one of only 8000 people who bought this turdburger. That's an insane thought.
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(https://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n617/bss4life5/fucking-pathetic.jpg)
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Poor suckers :( Dedicated to Disappointment. I wonder how many of those 8k will try to return the cd or sell it to some other misguided person on ebay :biggrin:
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(https://gallery.techarena.in/data/500/thumbs/borat_nice.jpg)
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I'm sure they'll blame piracy.
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8k is actually more than I thought it would sell. Am I the only one surprised it's that high?
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8,000 suckers. :lol :biggrin:
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8k is actually more than I thought it would sell. Am I the only one surprised it's that high?
I'm surprised it charted, honestly. As far as 80s metal bands go, Queensryche was never the most popular, and you'd think more fans would be hesitant to buy new QR now...
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It's amazing to watch the decline. When DT and QR toured together their popularity was crossing (DT up and QR down) and now it looks like Symphony X is doing the same. They charted at 76 with Iconoclast and will be more popular than Queensryche on the live circuit very soon.
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Ahh, but it's the old fans' fault for wanting the same old thing! The band isn't allowed to grow and change. My point of view is they are allowed, they just can't complain if they don't take the fans with them.
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I think fans will accept change..........compare the QR debut to Promised Land; completely different, yet are well liked and respected by fans. While they are different, the music itself is excellent. The music on DTC is helacious. QR isn't listening to their fans and this is the end result. Based on QR's loyal fanbase, they should be selling 20,000 minimum opening week. The fans have spoken and hopefully somebody in the band, anybody, is listening (kind of a pun)
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I don’t like DREAM THEATER, for example. I don’t get that band at all and I’ve listened to a lot of their stuff. It’s just not something that connects with me at all musically, but I appreciate the fact that they’re really into it and there are a lot of people that like what they do and that’s cool. I don’t down them for anything. In fact, any band that can make a living writing music and creating art… there’s some talent there. One comment I can’t abide by is that one associate of yours that was listening to our record the first time and said ‘this sucks’. No album, to me, sucks. There is no ‘good’ music or ‘bad’ music. There’s just music and it’s up to the individual whether they can accept it or relate to it or not. It’s a purely personal journey. There’s no way you can say an album by Queensr˙che sucks. There’s no way. It doesn’t even make sense to make that statement. Queensr˙che, like you said, is an incredibly successful band. We’ve been together and making music for thirty years. There’s nothing that we write that sucks. It’s that you (the particular listener) don’t relate to that song or album.”
https://www.bravewords.com/news/165041
So...QR don't write anything that sucks. If you don't like it, it's just because you can't relate to it. Music in general doesn't suck. Well, except for Dream Theater, but good for them and their fans that they are artistic. But, otherwise, yeah. Music doesn't suck. Especially Queensryche music. :biggrin:
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Holy shit.
They're trolling. They have to be.
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I'm not generally into stupid band vs. band drama, but I have to say, I'm looking forward to seeing DT's first week numbers FAR outstripping Queensryche's meager 8,000.
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Didn't Queensryche and DT do a headlining tour together in 2003? I mean, I know it's all business, but did Geoff not like them then either? Must have been awkward.
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Geoff is either trolling, delusional, or both.
Didn't Queensryche and DT do a headlining tour together in 2003? I mean, I know it's all business, but did Geoff not like them then either? Must have been awkward.
Yeah, I was thinking about that the whole time I was reading that article excerpt.
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Didn't Queensryche and DT do a headlining tour together in 2003? I mean, I know it's all business, but did Geoff not like them then either? Must have been awkward.
I think a lot of tension between some members of the two bands developed during that tour, yes.
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8k is actually more than I thought it would sell. Am I the only one surprised it's that high?
No. I first thing I saw in that sentence was the number 70 and thought it must have only sold 70 copies, and then I read the whole thing. :lol Very surprised it sold that much.
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@ GT
(https://d44ytnim3cfy5.cloudfront.net/assets/2495145/lightbox/Boxxy_Trollin.jpg?1289655011)
In all seriousness, Geoff Tate has an opinion. Good for him. I actually agree with him that the quality of music is completely relative, but the point he is missing here is that any piece of music released is going to be judged on two distinct levels: who wrote it, and what it sounds like. Comparing DTC to other Queensryche albums, especially their legendary releases from the 80's/early 90's casts it in a very unappealing light because it just goes to show how this band (who used to be a dominant trend-setter) has become such a trend-follower over the past 15 years. Comparing it to other bands that sound similar makes it seem even worse because it just goes to show how they were attempting to copy the work of others and failed to reach that level of quality (to me, DTC sounds like an attempt to combine U2 with ambient pop/rock a la Curve; a very uninspired, half-assed attempt. I would take any U2 or Curve album over DTC, I promise you that). On both levels, the album fails to stand up to the standard set by the works that proceeded it. And don't even get me started on the lyrics. Maybe the quality of the music is subjective, but it is pretty easy to distinguish between good writing and bad writing where lyrics are concerned, and DTC is clearly in the latter category.
Oh, and the poorly veiled jab at Dream Theater was totally uncalled for, unprofessional and in extremely poor taste. We all know the history between Queensryche and Dream Theater, and it's no secret that GT is butt hurt over the fact that a band that takes QR as one of their biggest influences has over the past decade surpassed them in popularity and, more recently, mainstream exposure. Perhaps if Tate wasn't so blinded by jealousy and the dollar signs in his eyes, he would see that DT are successful because they have always made music that is both true to themselves and appealing to the majority of their fans; rather then constantly trying to play catch-up with whatever is hip or cool at the moment, then calling it "artistic license" when it fails. I don't blame Queensryche for all the things that have gone poorly for them in the past decade and a half, but I do blame them for not being able to deal with it in a manner that is both faithful to themselves and their fans. Making music on your own terms is a noble thing, but making music that is at odds with who you are, just because it fancies you at the moment, is a career killing mistake.
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Just a funny comparison, Limp Bizkit's new album sold 27k in the first week:
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=160353
lol
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I don’t like DREAM THEATER, for example. I don’t get that band at all and I’ve listened to a lot of their stuff. It’s just not something that connects with me at all musically, but I appreciate the fact that they’re really into it and there are a lot of people that like what they do and that’s cool. I don’t down them for anything. In fact, any band that can make a living writing music and creating art… there’s some talent there. One comment I can’t abide by is that one associate of yours that was listening to our record the first time and said ‘this sucks’. No album, to me, sucks. There is no ‘good’ music or ‘bad’ music. There’s just music and it’s up to the individual whether they can accept it or relate to it or not. It’s a purely personal journey. There’s no way you can say an album by Queensr˙che sucks. There’s no way. It doesn’t even make sense to make that statement. Queensr˙che, like you said, is an incredibly successful band. We’ve been together and making music for thirty years. There’s nothing that we write that sucks. It’s that you (the particular listener) don’t relate to that song or album.”
https://www.bravewords.com/news/165041
So...QR don't write anything that sucks. If you don't like it, it's just because you can't relate to it. Music in general doesn't suck. Well, except for Dream Theater, but good for them and their fans that they are artistic. But, otherwise, yeah. Music doesn't suck. Especially Queensryche music. :biggrin:
WTF? Geoff needs to get his head out of his ass. His band and DT shared the stage so many times. He seemed to performed well and enjoyed his duets with James and the band on Art of Live and other youtube vids I've seen.
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Just a funny comparison, Limp Bizkit's new album sold 27k in the first week:
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=160353
lol
I haven't heard either album, but there is a very good chance that Gold Cobra could be a much better album.
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I've heard both albums.
It is better.
But then again, I like Limp Bizkit, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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I've heard both albums.
It is better.
But then again, I like Limp Bizkit, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
How is it compared to their old stuff? Are they doing anything new?
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Not really. I wouldn't say it's as good as Chocolate Starfish or Significant Other, but it's better than Results May Vary.
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...but there is a very good chance that Gold Cobra could be a much better album.
I don't even like LB at all, but I suspect I would think their album is better.
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The jab at DT was a bit random and stupid, but am I the only one who agrees with the rest of that? :lol
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Yes, Rich. You're the only one. Leave the hall.
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Not really. I wouldn't say it's as good as Chocolate Starfish or Significant Other, but it's better than Results May Vary.
I might give it a listen.
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The jab at DT was a bit random and stupid, but am I the only one who agrees with the rest of that? :lol
As I said, I actually agree a lot with what he said about music be subjective, but that argument doesn't work with DTC because the album itself just doesn't work. It doesn't sound like it was made by a band that is known for making that sort of music well, nor does it sound like it meshes with other works of that genre. It is a wolf in sheep's clothing, something trying to pretend it is something else and failing miserably at the ruse. Queensryche should not be trying to be U2, or Curve, or the Beatles, or any other the other bands that were blatantly ripped off and imitated in DTC. Queensryche should be Queensryche and no one else. That doesn't mean they need to remake Operation Mindcrime ad nauseam, nor does it mean they need to be strictly metal, but it does mean they should be writing music that is consistent with who they are, and I really do not understand why Tate and Co. find this principle so damn hard to comprehend. You don't have to make something that is musically completely left of field for you to be considered "progressive" and "unique". I consider each and every Dream Theater album to be a world unto itself, and yet, DT's popularity (since Falling Into Infinity) has gone nowhere but up. Why? Because no matter what musical territory Dream Theater explores on each album, it is always consistent with who they are. Take Train of Thought: on the one hand, DT had never made a metal album before, but they had always had metal songs. So while the idea of the album was something new, the precedent for the style of the album had been established in DT's back catalog. Now a lot of DT fans didn't really like this metal DT, but many liked it enough that it held the interest of the majority of their established fanbase, while simultaneously gaining the band a renewed interest from the metal crowd and a lot of new fans to young to remember Pull Me Under. This is what Queensryhe should be doing, not pulling a 180 every 2 or 3 albums and musically starting from scratch again. The fact that DTC is receiving such a backlash is proof of this, yet sadly the band is too blind to perceive it. I have a very hard time believing that QR can recover from this debacle. The fact that he talks about another solo album in that article (when his last sold all of maybe 2 copies) implies that stock in the QR name is falling at such an alarming rate that it may be time to bail.
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None of that matters. I don't believe that bands or artists have to do a certain thing or play in a certain style. American Soldier was not like QR at all, but it was one of their best albums in years.
It sounds like I won't like the album at all, but that doesn't mean it sucks, that just means it's not for me.
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This is sad. Queensryche was my first favorite band. It was probably 1991 while Empire was fresh when I started listening to them. (I discovered Images and Words about a year later.) Q2K was the last album I bought though. I was checking out their website store and found this.
https://shop.queensryche.com/products-page/clothing/womens-eat-cock-not-cake-black/
(https://shop.queensryche.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/tshirt_eat-cock-black.jpg)
"Eat cock not cake". I can't believe they sunk to selling this sleeze.
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That girl is cute though.
:eyebrows:
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None of that matters. I don't believe that bands or artists have to do a certain thing or play in a certain style.
That's true up to a point, but that line is crossed where what the band is putting out sounds like they are just giving the fans the finger, and every action and public statement by the band confirms that they understand what the fans who have given them their past success want, and simply don't care. And the line is crossed when it is apparent there is no quality control whatsoever and the band is just releasing inferior product.
American Soldier was not like QR at all
??? What?
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Ariich, I guess we have to agree to disagree, because while I felt AS wasn't exactly classic QR, it was closer to that band then anything they had put out in a while. At the very least, it sounded like a logical late-2000's metal extrapolation of Queensryche. Ultimately, though, I liked American Soldier because I like the majority of the tracks on the album (about 7 of the 12 tracks I felt were pretty good, and most of the others at least had promise, even if the execution was flawed). On this new album there is maybe ONE track (At the Edge), that I genuinely like, and another (Hot Spot Junkie) that I enjoyed enough to not want to skip it. Out of SIXTEEN SONGS! The rest was forgettable filler at best, and pure tripe at the worst. And even the songs I did like were not all that memorable, simply more enjoyable and less difficult to listen to then the rest of the album. And the lyrics are an abomination. That is not a subjective opinion, I assure you, it is a fact literacy and writing skills.
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That girl is cute though.
:eyebrows:
I wouldn't mind if that was her own personal motto :hat
but that's not about the music I used to love
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That girl is cute though.
:eyebrows:
I wouldn't mind if that was her own personal motto :hat
but that's not about the music I used to love
Her motto should be "eat cock and bake me a cake"
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"There’s no way you can say an album by Queensr˙che sucks. There’s no way. It doesn’t even make sense to make that statement. Queensr˙che, like you said, is an incredibly successful band. We’ve been together and making music for thirty years. There’s nothing that we write that sucks.”
This makes sense actually. DTC wasn't written by Queensryche and therefore isn't a Queensryche album. So I agree with Geoff. ;)
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:rollin
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LOL at the interview.
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I've not heard a note of the new album yet.
But based on that interview, Tate doesn't sound like a man who is teetering on the tightrope on insanity.
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Didn't Queensryche and DT do a headlining tour together in 2003? I mean, I know it's all business, but did Geoff not like them then either? Must have been awkward.
Yeah, and their former guitarist Mike Stone was giving John tips on playing guitars, thus we have the inspiration for As I Am. I believe that's how the lyrics came about
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Didn't Queensryche and DT do a headlining tour together in 2003? I mean, I know it's all business, but did Geoff not like them then either? Must have been awkward.
Yeah, and their former guitarist Mike Stone was giving John tips on playing guitars, thus we have the inspiration for As I Am. I believe that's how the lyrics came about
Mike giving John tips? wut? :lol
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Didn't Queensryche and DT do a headlining tour together in 2003? I mean, I know it's all business, but did Geoff not like them then either? Must have been awkward.
Yeah, and their former guitarist Mike Stone was giving John tips on playing guitars, thus we have the inspiration for As I Am. I believe that's how the lyrics came about
Mike giving John tips? wut? :lol
For the record it inspired one stanza of As I Am, not the entire song.
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I really hope Geoff Tate's incredibly wacky way of singing "On YouuuTUBE On YouuuTUBE" doesn't stay stuck in my head.
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I really hope Geoff Tate's incredibly wacky way of singing "On YouuuTUBE On YouuuTUBE" doesn't stay stuck in my head.
You're doomed man, doooooooooomed. I'm currently considering lobotomy.
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Didn't Queensryche and DT do a headlining tour together in 2003? I mean, I know it's all business, but did Geoff not like them then either? Must have been awkward.
Yeah, and their former guitarist Mike Stone was giving John tips on playing guitars, thus we have the inspiration for As I Am. I believe that's how the lyrics came about
Close, but not exactly. The way I have heard it told, Stone was basically telling John, "You don't know how to bend notes properly; this is how you do it." From everything I've heard about Stone, he was likely just clowning around, but it wasn't received well--especially since JP had to reteach Whip how a couple of QR tunes went before the tour started because Whip couldn't remember them. And Stone isn't even in the same class of guitar players as Whip, let alone JP.
And as Nick said, it didn't inspire the song--it was the inspiration for probably about two lines of the lyrics of the song.
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How did Michael Wilton get that nickname?
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:eyebrows:
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(https://images.buddytv.com/articles/who-wants-to-be-a-superhero/images/whip-snap.jpg)
That was before he pulled a Michael Jackson on us.
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... So I got my first Queensr˙che album the other day. It's "Empire". So far, I like what I hear, nice, solid hard rock with some progressive metal elements in there.
Any other albums I should get, aside from the mandatory Operation: Mindcrime?
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Any other albums I should get, aside from the mandatory Operation: Mindcrime?
Not before you get O:M.
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Any other albums I should get, aside from the mandatory Operation: Mindcrime?
Rage For Order and Promised Land.
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I would get The Warning also after you get the ones that were previously mentioned. Take Hold of the Flame is probably one of their top 5 songs. NM156 is pretty awesome too. The rest of the album isn't bad either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUrnCLWqmzA
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Rage For Order and The Warning. Promised Land is where it started to go downhill for me. Some great songs but I still haven't forgiven them for Disconnected.
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I LOVE Disconnected. :(
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Promised Land is an amazing disc.......the title track is pure epic
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... So I got my first Queensr˙che album the other day. It's "Empire". So far, I like what I hear, nice, solid hard rock with some progressive metal elements in there.
Any other albums I should get, aside from the mandatory Operation: Mindcrime?
Everything from the '83 EP up to and including Promised Land is all rock solid and definitely worth owning (although Promised Land itself has a rather odd and unique sound that may take some getting used to, definitely the biggest "grower" in the QR discography). After that it starts to get a little patchy, as the albums from '97's Hear in the Now Frontier all the way up to 09's American Soldier all have fantastic tracks on them, but also have ample amounts of filler and inconsistent attempts at experimentation. As for the new album, Dedicated to Chaos, do yourself a favour: just download "At the Edge" from I-tunes or wherever you do your online music shopping, and pretend that the rest of the album doesn't exist. :P
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As for the new album, Dedicated to Chaos, do yourself a favour: just download "At the Edge" from I-tunes or wherever you do your online music shopping, and pretend that the rest of the album doesn't exist. :P
:lol ^ This
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Promised Land always sounded like a very short album to me. Maybe because I skipped some of it- I Am I, PL (I love it now but didn't for a long time), Disconnected. DTC sounds like they listened back to Disconnected and decided to make an album like that song. But worse.
-
I'VE
GOTTA DO SOMETHING
ABOUT THIS
LOATHSOME
STATE
I'M IN
DISCONNECTED
Great song! :hat :hat :hat
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I gotta say that One More Time is one of my absolute favourites from QR. I loved it at first listen.
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Promised Land always sounded like a very short album to me. Maybe because I skipped some of it- I Am I, PL (I love it now but didn't for a long time), Disconnected. DTC sounds like they listened back to Disconnected and decided to make an album like that song. But worse.
More like, it sounds like they forgot everything that made Disconnected (or any song of PL) good and attempted to somehow approximate it. Horrendously.
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It sounds like Geoff Tate and some other people wrote it.
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I gotta say that One More Time is one of my absolute favourites from QR. I loved it at first listen.
I agree. A great song. I love Damaged, Out Of Mind, Bridge, title track, Somewhere Else, most of it really.
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It sounds like Geoff Tate wrote it.
Fixed.
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It sounds like Geoff Tate and some other people wrote it.
Fixed.
Fixed.
Read the song credits. ;)
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I gotta say that One More Time is one of my absolute favourites from QR. I loved it at first listen.
Agree Zydar, one of my all time fav Queensryche songs and the best song on PL IMO.
Finally, I just picked up the special edition of DTC yesterday!!! I haven't listened to it, but I'm keen and will do a bit of a review here. :metal
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Wolfking, make sure you have a barfbag nearby when you are listening to DTC, lol. But joking aside, I would be interested reading a review from you
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:rollin
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Wolfking, make sure you have a barfbag nearby when you are listening to DTC, lol. But joking aside, I would be interested reading a review from you
:lol Can't wait to lsten. I will listen for the first time tonight. I'm gonna go in with no expectations and hopefully not comparing it to their older material too much.
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Almost 24 hours and no response. I'm guessing he got as far as track #3 and just keeled over and died.
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Almost 24 hours and no response. I'm guessing he got as far as track #3 and just keeled over and died.
:rollin
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I've been a QR fan since Empire, which is 20 years now. I even have a poster of the Promised Land cover above the staircase in my apartment, just to show you how much I loved this band. And I've been backstage to meet them twice. I listened to DTC special edition once and that's it. I went back and listened to "At the Edge" a few times after that and "Big Noize" maybe a dozen times or so. The CD is now on my shelf and will probably never be touched again. To me, the lyrics are far and away the worst part of the album. I personally don't need heaviness in my music. I can take lightness, as long as it has some mood to it. I mean, Promised Land isn't all that heavy aside from a track or two. But DTC just had nothing there that grabbed me aside from "Big Noize." Very disappointing.
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Wasn't something to be released on the 28th of June? Chaos somethingorother?
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Some facts about first week album sales to compare D2C's meager 8,000 units and chart position of 70:
Seems like there is a lot of discussion about how much better other bands have done than QR with DTC, but without specific numbers. Here are some facts about recent releases, I've included a variety of bands in the prog metal/metal/rock world for comparison:
Iron Maiden "The Final Frontier" (2010): 63,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 4.
Dream Theater "Black Clouds & Silver Linings" (2009): 40,285 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 6.
Symphony X "Iconoclast" (2011): 7300 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 76.
Motley Crue "Saints of Los Angeles" (2008): 99,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 4.
Ratt "Infestation" (2010): 14,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 30.
Def Leppard "Songs from the Sparkle Lounge" (2008): 55,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 5.
Megadeth "Endgame" (2010): 45,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 9.
Opeth "Watershed" 2008: no sales numbers, charted at # 23
I could go...but the bottom line is this shows how far Queensryche have sunk. They outsold a few of the bands on this list in 1990 - 1994. To only move 8K copies, 1/2 of what Ratt did last year is truly pathetic.
But as Scott said, they only put out new records to promote the tour. How's that going? Not too well, many of these bands are still in the arena's or large theaters while Queensryche plays hole in the wall venues these days.
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Overall that is really not that surprising, though, considering the current state of Queensryche. A lot of 80's metal bands like Def Leppard, Iron Maiden, Megadeth and Ratt have all benefited from a strong resurgence in classic metal that occurred over the past decade (a resurgence QR could have turned to their advantage if they were smart), and Motley Crue had a hugely successful reunion back around '04. I think we all know why Dream Theater is doing better then Queensryche these days. Opeth got #23 on the charts, while according to Wikipedia "(Dedicated to Chaos) debuted at #70 on the Billboard 200, the lowest charting full-length album for the band in its history. The band's last album, American Soldier, peaked at #25 on the Billboard 200", so Opeth clearly outsold them as well. The only part of this that is really shocking is that they sold less than 1000 more then Symphony X, a very underground and still relatively unknown metal band. When a band like Queensryche is selling records in those numbers, that is not a good sign.....
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Heheh, I found this while searching for DTC chart position and sales numbers and found it amusing:
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=159083 (https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=159083)
So after Geoff Tate made all that noise about Queensryche not really being a metal band, bla, bla, bla; Scott Rock is now trying to convince us that DTC is a metal record! :facepalm: Seriously, the severity to which these guys are increasingly detached from reality is starting to border on the psychotic.
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I just noticed they added a new date for a show in my home town. Turns out they are playing the same small club they played for The Warning tour.
Looks like they've come full circle. Very sad.
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I just noticed they added a new date for a show in my home town. Turns out they are playing the same small club they played for The Warning tour.
Looks like they've come full circle. Very sad.
That tends to happen when you shit in the hand that feeds you.
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They are playing here next month at the Pageant, which I think holds 2-3K, but I suspect the promoter is overestimating them as a draw. For shits and giggles, I just checked on tickets and balcony seats in the center section, which usually go fast for shows at that venue, are still available. And tickets went on sale months ago. :lol :lol
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Aren't they already writing material for a follow-up album? I wonder how that's going for them. Do you think it's possible they realized how poorly-received this album would be, so they want to get another new one out within a year to save themselves?
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Heheh, I found this while searching for DTC chart position and sales numbers and found it amusing:
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=159083 (https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=159083)
So after Geoff Tate made all that noise about Queensryche not really being a metal band, bla, bla, bla; Scott Rock is now trying to convince us that DTC is a metal record! :facepalm: Seriously, the severity to which these guys are increasingly detached from reality is starting to border on the psychotic.
I would rather listen to Lady GaGa than DTC. I gave it another go tonight and it's still crap, bar one or two songs that are ok. Just ok. And Katy Perry is more metal than this album.
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Katy Perry is more metal than this album.
:lol
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Almost 24 hours and no response. I'm guessing he got as far as track #3 and just keeled over and died.
:lol Been held up at work, listening today.
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Aren't they already writing material for a follow-up album? I wonder how that's going for them. Do you think it's possible they realized how poorly-received this album would be, so they want to get another new one out within a year to save themselves?
They've been doing this "We have tons of other songs that didn't make the record" thing for a while. I remember reading that when Q2K was released. I think it was close to 20 other songs. And at the time I remember thinking "You guys made 20 other songs that were WORSE than what ended up on the record?" But I really think since this has been come up several times with a few new releases that it is just BS. And I honestly don't know what they think they are gaining by saying it. You really should be talking about how great your new album is and promote that. Not that you'll have another new album out soon.
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I know there is a lot of dislike for HITNF but I really like the disk. I remember people complaining it was too stripped down and not heavy enough but I'd bet all QR fans would kill for them to at least go back to that.
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I've always really liked it as well.
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I remember getting HITNF and Tonic - Lemon Parade and playing them daily for months on end. I've never got the hate. I guess it was the Metal community that was the driving force behind the hate.
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I know there is a lot of dislike for HITNF but I really like the disk. I remember people complaining it was too stripped down and not heavy enough but I'd bet all QR fans would kill for them to at least go back to that.
I don't hate it, but I never really got into HITNF either. That being said, I'd take another HITNF over DTC any day.
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Heheh, I found this while searching for DTC chart position and sales numbers and found it amusing:
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=159083 (https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=159083)
So after Geoff Tate made all that noise about Queensryche not really being a metal band, bla, bla, bla; Scott Rock is now trying to convince us that DTC is a metal record! :facepalm: Seriously, the severity to which these guys are increasingly detached from reality is starting to border on the psychotic.
I would rather listen to Lady GaGa than DTC. I gave it another go tonight and it's still crap, bar one or two songs that are ok. Just ok. And Katy Perry is more metal than this album.
He also said that DTC is dark and heavy. I don't know what he's smoking, but I want some.
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Some facts about first week album sales to compare D2C's meager 8,000 units and chart position of 70:
Seems like there is a lot of discussion about how much better other bands have done than QR with DTC, but without specific numbers. Here are some facts about recent releases, I've included a variety of bands in the prog metal/metal/rock world for comparison:
Iron Maiden "The Final Frontier" (2010): 63,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 4.
Dream Theater "Black Clouds & Silver Linings" (2009): 40,285 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 6.
Symphony X "Iconoclast" (2011): 7300 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 76.
Motley Crue "Saints of Los Angeles" (2008): 99,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 4.
Ratt "Infestation" (2010): 14,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 30.
Def Leppard "Songs from the Sparkle Lounge" (2008): 55,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 5.
Megadeth "Endgame" (2010): 45,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 9.
Opeth "Watershed" 2008: no sales numbers, charted at # 23
I could go...but the bottom line is this shows how far Queensryche have sunk. They outsold a few of the bands on this list in 1990 - 1994. To only move 8K copies, 1/2 of what Ratt did last year is truly pathetic.
But as Scott said, they only put out new records to promote the tour. How's that going? Not too well, many of these bands are still in the arena's or large theaters while Queensryche plays hole in the wall venues these days.
Good thing that Geoff doesn't care about album sales. ;)
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Some facts about first week album sales to compare D2C's meager 8,000 units and chart position of 70:
Seems like there is a lot of discussion about how much better other bands have done than QR with DTC, but without specific numbers. Here are some facts about recent releases, I've included a variety of bands in the prog metal/metal/rock world for comparison:
Iron Maiden "The Final Frontier" (2010): 63,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 4.
Dream Theater "Black Clouds & Silver Linings" (2009): 40,285 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 6.
Symphony X "Iconoclast" (2011): 7300 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 76.
Motley Crue "Saints of Los Angeles" (2008): 99,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 4.
Ratt "Infestation" (2010): 14,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 30.
Def Leppard "Songs from the Sparkle Lounge" (2008): 55,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 5.
Megadeth "Endgame" (2010): 45,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to enter The Billboard 200 chart at position No. 9.
Opeth "Watershed" 2008: no sales numbers, charted at # 23
I could go...but the bottom line is this shows how far Queensryche have sunk. They outsold a few of the bands on this list in 1990 - 1994. To only move 8K copies, 1/2 of what Ratt did last year is truly pathetic.
But as Scott said, they only put out new records to promote the tour. How's that going? Not too well, many of these bands are still in the arena's or large theaters while Queensryche plays hole in the wall venues these days.
Good thing that Geoff doesn't care about album sales. ;)
I bet he's gonna reaaaaally go all-out on the next album.
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I remember getting HITNF and Tonic - Lemon Parade and playing them daily for months on end. I've never got the hate. I guess it was the Metal community that was the driving force behind the hate.
2 amazing albums right there. Lemon Parade was killer.
I've listened to DTC once. :| I am resersving my judgement for another 2 listens and then will review.....Hmmm.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HcG4oY3jf4
Seriously, this is what the band wanted to keep secret from public to ensure only people who have purchased the album can view it? Pffft!
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So wolf, did you get your $20 worth? :lol
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Yeah, how was that big noize? Hotspot junkies across the world want you to get started with your opinions, regarding DTC.
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I remember getting HITNF and Tonic - Lemon Parade and playing them daily for months on end. I've never got the hate. I guess it was the Metal community that was the driving force behind the hate.
2 amazing albums right there. Lemon Parade was killer.
Lemon Parade is still such a strong album to this day.
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Oh Geoff Tate. What will you (or your wife) think of next?
(https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/soulflypremiere/tateinsaniamarcus.jpg)
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Nick probably already bought his ticket.
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Oh Geoff Tate. What will you (or your wife) think of next?
(https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/soulflypremiere/tateinsaniamarcus.jpg)
I love how he bills it as "Geoff Tate and members of Queensryche"
Roger Waters much?
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Nick probably already bought his ticket.
Knock it off, PC. For someone who says he wants to stay on this forum, you sure seem to go out of your way to stay on my radar.
I love how he bills it as "Geoff Tate and members of Queensryche"
Roger Waters much?
I'm not defending Tate for any of his poor decisionmaking or display of ego, but what you posted really isn't a valid criticism. Given that it's his wine, of course his name will be front and center. And given that it is some members of Queensryche and not the whole band, how else exactly should they be listed in your mind?
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Nick probably already bought his ticket.
:lol
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Hmm... you kind of nailed me on that.
If it is only logical in the context of the ad to highlight Geoff, maybe, uh, Queensryche, featuring Geoff Tate.
I'll admit that my statements regarding Geoff have gotten rather unreasonable at times.
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Nick probably already bought his ticket.
Knock it off, PC. For someone who says he wants to stay on this forum, you sure seem to go out of your way to stay on my radar.
It's a joke. And Nick will understand that, because we joke about things on and off the forum regularly, and have been joking about this particular issue for awhile. Just like you and I once did, before you started assuming the worst in me for some reason :sadpanda:
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Hmm... you kind of nailed me on that.
If it is only logical in the context of the ad to highlight Geoff, maybe, uh, Queensryche, featuring Geoff Tate.
I'll admit that my statements regarding Geoff have gotten rather unreasonable at times.
Well, in fairness, he makes himself an easy target. I dunno. If everything else were right in the QR universe, I would have no problem with the QR name on the bill. I mean, if John Petrucci were suddenly a wine enthusiast, and he was putting on a promotion at a local winery and some of the DT guys decided to join in, I wouldn't have a problem mentioning that fact. It's like, "Oh, some of JP's buddies from the band are coming out to support him, and throwing the DT name out there will boost the exposure a bit, so its a win all the way around." It just seems more offensive for QR to do it because they have gone so far in whoring out the name and bastardizing the Queensryche "brand."
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I love how joking about someone supporting Queensryche has become a bannable offense. :rollin
And yeah Bosk, I know that's not what you meant by it, but it was funny.
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I love how joking about someone supporting Queensryche has become a bannable offense. :rollin
:lol
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:ironic:
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After listening to this record a couple of times, I have very mixed feelings. I do have some good things to say about it, but also, a lot of negative. I feel I actually have a lot to say in general regarding this album. I am gonna write a full review probably on Thursday or Friday when I get a full free hour.
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The new album has 138 reviews and an average of 2 stars on Amazon.
Can't say I'm too surprised.
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The new album has 138 reviews and an average of 2 stars on Amazon.
Can't say I'm too surprised.
Yeah, there's also a group of people going around trolling some of the negative reviews. Tis funny :lol
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I honestly think that 2 stars is being very generous.
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As of right now, it's the second-lowest rated QR on Progarchives, with a 2.37.
The lowest rated by them on the site is Q2K, with a 2.04.
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Wow... Walla Walla? Lots of nice wineries out there, but damn if that couldn't be farther away from any major metropolitan area.
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These wine tasting events are nothing new for GT. He's been doing this a lot for the past couple years. I wanted to drive up there to one of these at one time, but wouldn't do it now.
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It didn't make me wanna run out and buy the album or anything, but Get Started wasn't was a lot better than I was expecting based on the comments here. Jackson/Rockenfield sounded pretty strong. An actual guitar solo might have been nice, and Tate's vocal melodies were pretty unexciting, but it actually had a better feel than the last few albums.
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It didn't make me wanna run out and buy the album or anything,
;)
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It didn't make me wanna run out and buy the album or anything,
;)
I bet if you had Geoff's wine, you'd be paying double price just to get your hands on the album. ;)
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I wouldn't mind trying some of that wine. Wonder who wrote the recipe? :lol
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As of right now, it's the second-lowest rated QR on Progarchives, with a 2.37.
The lowest rated by them on the site is Q2K, with a 2.04.
Unbelievably, both still beat the 1.85 rating the new dredg record has over there.
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As of right now, it's the second-lowest rated QR on Progarchives, with a 2.37.
The lowest rated by them on the site is Q2K, with a 2.04.
Unbelievably, both still beat the 1.85 rating the new dredg record has over there.
I'm not familiar with Dredg. Did they make some sort of concept album about Youtube or stripping, to somehow under-exceed QR's post 1997 repertoire?
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As of right now, it's the second-lowest rated QR on Progarchives, with a 2.37.
The lowest rated by them on the site is Q2K, with a 2.04.
Unbelievably, both still beat the 1.85 rating the new dredg record has over there.
I can see why the negativity has been stronger toward dredg. Because an average album release on the back of a fantastic one just doesn't draw them same reaction as a terrible album released on the back of a bad one. I think of it kinda like this: dredg fans' expectation levels for the band were dropped overnight from like a perfect 10 to a 5. QR fans just went from 2 to 1. The farther fall hurts more, just like the first fight with a significant other is way worse than the 100th.
For reference, remember how Falling into Infinity or Train of Thought were originally received?
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As of right now, it's the second-lowest rated QR on Progarchives, with a 2.37.
The lowest rated by them on the site is Q2K, with a 2.04.
Unbelievably, both still beat the 1.85 rating the new dredg record has over there.
I can see why the negativity has been stronger toward dredg. Because an average album release on the back of a fantastic one just doesn't draw them same reaction as a terrible album released on the back of a bad one. I think of it kinda like this: dredg fans' expectation levels for the band were dropped overnight from like a perfect 10 to a 5. QR fans just went from 2 to 1. The farther fall hurts more, just like the first fight with a significant other is way worse than the 100th.
For reference, remember how Falling into Infinity or Train of Thought were originally received?
If QR made an album of the quality of FII or TOT in 2013, that would be more than a viable comeback.
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For reference, remember how Falling into Infinity or Train of Thought were originally received?
FII and ToT are not even close to DTC in terms of a fall from grace. Despite the relatively high expectations leading off of Awake and I&W, the response to FII at the time was no where near as venomous as the response to DTC. I actually started getting into Dream Theater in the FII period, and a lot of DT fans who helped get me into the band said that it was still a great album, even if it was not on the quality of it's predecessors. Despite a few weak tracks, the album had more then enough stand out songs for it to please the majority of Dream Theater fans at the time. I really think much of FII's negative reputation was built up years later by members of the band talking about how the album, despite it's strong points, was originally intended to be so much more. After that, people began to see it as a maimed remnant of what should have been a great album, rather then judging it on it's own merits.
As for Train of Thought, I wouldn't say the album was universally hated when it came out, but it was a very divisive record. The fans who had bitched about parts of 6DOIT being too heavy despised the album, but the more metal of Dream Theater's fans (myself included, as well as many other DT fans I knew at the time) loved the shit out of it because we had always wanted at least one DT record like that. Furthermore, the sound of ToT helped the band to break even farther back into the public eye, thus building on the success of the albums that came before it. I know a lot of younger metalheads who discovered DT during the ToT period. That record gained a whole new legion of fans for DT, which more then made up for some disgruntled, old-school prog snobs.
DTC received a very negative, hateful response from the majority of Queensryche fans since the beginning, unlike the relatively subdued response FII received. Furthermore, DTC isn't gaining QR any new, younger fans, unlike what ToT did for Dream Theater. I really do not see how DTC can be compared to those to albums in any way.
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Honestly, I'd say that even DT's weakest albums are waaaay stronger than any of Q's output after PL. And it's not like I exactly worship TOT and its followups, either.
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I find it funny that "The Most Helpful Favorable Review" on Amazon has 1 out of 4 people who found it "helpful".
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Has QR been disbanded yet? This coming from the guy who hosts the QR equivalent of DTF....
Such a damn waste. Here is a post I put up on The Breakdown Room yesterday. Pretty much sums up the whole D2C impact:
In light of what would I would call the abomination that is Dedicated to Chaos, I quote a guitar player and band leader respected throughout metal, rock and progressive circles regarding writing new music:
Quote
"I try to stay pure to the initial conception of our band; we're a progressive band and we're a metal band, mixed.
"We always try to push some sort of boundary and do something that's a little bit different, some sort of element we haven't done before. You'll hear that for sure. You don't want to repeat yourself, but at the same time it's important to stay focused on what makes up the sound of the band."
That quote comes from John Petrucci of Dream Theater, talking about the band's new album, A Dramatic Turn of Events and how John approaches writing a new record.
Source: https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=160660
I was a HUGE fan of DT from when I first heard them in 1995 through about 1999. I loved everything from When Dream and Day Unite through Falling into Infinity.
And while since then, I have liked their work less and less, it still SOUNDED LIKE DREAM THEATER. I remained a fan, still went to shows and supported them, even though I was very vocal about my personal dislike in the directions they were taking. I still respected them.
Why?
JP says it all -- the band's songwriters KNOW what fans want. Yet they are also artists and need room to experiment a little. As a fan, while I might not enjoy a particular direction, as long as the band that I am a fan of still sounds like the same band, and most importantly, has a keen sense of WHAT THEY ARE AS A BAND, and stays true to that, I'll support them.
That's where "Tateryche" missed the boat heavily here with Defecation to Chaos.
QUEENSRYCHE, at its core, is a guitar-driven hard rock/metal band, with progressive influences and dramatic vocal melodies. The band also had a nice grasp of current sounds and styles it incorporated into its records.
Every single QR record, including Q2k and everything post-Degarmo, still, at its core, was a guitar driven hard rock record. Sure, some songs missed the boat, some performances weren't great, but they still sounded like they belonged under the name "Queensryche," despite who wrote them.
Dedicated to Chaos ignores that factor entirely. And that's not novel and forward-thinking. That is, frankly, in my opinion, stupidity.
Petrucci, and various other musicians, get the absolute need for that BALANCE of artistic expansion and expectation. They accept and embrace that and make sure they have the finger on the pulse of what the fans think, and instead of shrugging it off, strive to always be conscious of what their band IS, as a sound, as a piece of musical art.
Wake-up call, Geoff Tate. If you love pop music driven by drums and keyboards, that's great my man. Music is beautiful. But Queensryche isn't that. The more you rattle off how you make music for yourself and brush aside and ignore any fan expectation, the less successful the band will be.
Queensryche is a guitar-driven hard rock band. Accept that. Relish it. Be thankful for it. And the next album you attempt to create, embrace that and find that balance between art and expectation. Otherwise, the band Chris, Michael, Eddie, Scott and yourself worked so hard to build up since 1981 will be stripped of any of its relevance and most importantly, any of its credibility going forward.
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Very well said.
Also, LOL at "Defecation to Chaos."
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Very well said indeed!
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If the band were writing great music then I don't think nearly as many fans would be giving them shit. Queensryche's sound had some pretty significant changes with Empire, and again with Promised Land, and especially with the latter fans rejoiced in the change. So many bands are applauded for being innovative and for changing their sound and not becoming stale, and the reason Queensryche gets so much shit for their changes I feel have very little to do with the change in sound itself.
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If the band were writing great music then I don't think nearly as many fans would be giving them shit. Queensryche's sound had some pretty significant changes with Empire, and again with Promised Land, and especially with the latter fans rejoiced in the change. So many bands are applauded for being innovative and for changing their sound and not becoming stale, and the reason Queensryche gets so much shit for their changes I feel have very little to do with the change in sound itself.
Well Nick like Rush, QR did change but kept the essence of who they were. The writing like you said is very sub par but this is a real radical change to a fanbase all ready waning.
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What if DT came out with something DTC in sound, written in large part by outside writers who didn't write the songs originally for the Queensryche sound, then said that album sales don't matter to them? It would be a slap in the face to their fans. Even FII sounded like DT. DTC doesn't sound anything like Queensryche apart from one song. They've tried to snow their fans by saying that it sounds like Empire or a current Rage For Order. Apart from Michael Wilton, who apparently is just along for the ride, they have lost touch with reality. They apparently think their fans are stupid. If they don't get it together and become what they are again, and fast, they will be playing nothing but casinos and county fairs for the rest of their careers.
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What if DT came out with something DTC in sound, written in large part by outside writers who didn't write the songs originally for the Queensryche sound, then said that album sales don't matter to them? It would be a slap in the face to their fans. Even FII sounded like DT, and is far above being compared to anything QR's done without DeGarmo. DTC doesn't sound anything like Queensryche apart from one song. They've tried to snow their fans by saying that it sounds like Empire or a current Rage For Order. Apart from Michael Wilton, who apparently is just along for the ride, they have lost touch with reality. They think their fans are stupid. If they don't get it together and become what they are again, and fast, (And they probably won't) they will be playing nothing but wine chateaus and strip clubs for the rest of their careers or until Geoff ditches QR and attempts to do a MJ-type solo thing, playing up his Peter-Pan-complex..
This, adjusted a bit to be more accurate to my opinion. I do agree with essentially everything you said, though.
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^ :rollin
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Queensryche - Dedicated to Chaos.
I have been a fan of Queensryche for about 13 years now. I discovered Mindcrime and Empire and was in love ever since. Now, it’s no news that the band has had a rough time over the last 15 years but I for one, have supported them my whole 13 years and supported all of their later albums. It’s 2011 and things are pretty shaky in the Ryche camp. Late last month they released their eleventh studio album Dedicated to Chaos. Tate seems pretty egotistical lately and it seems he is very happy with this output and it seems he doesn’t care who disagrees. This is solely a Tate record with help from his outside songwriters. We see, (from my point of view) the other three members been brought down to session musicians just doing what they are told for their pay check, with little or no input into the songwriting of this album. We see declining sales which we all hope might knock some sense into Tate. We also see the band wanting you to prove your purchase of the new album just to see a promotional clip. It’s difficult to see where this band is heading.
With all this, I was still eager to purchase my copy and see what I tought for myself. I am reviewing the special edition here which includes 16 tracks. Regarding all the negative press and reviews from you guys on here and all over the web, I decided to dive into Dedicated to Chaos with no expectations, and simply taking the album for what it is. With a band like Queensryche, I think I owe it to them to give this a good go.
Now, is DTC as bad as everyone says it is.......well......unfortunately.......well...almost. What we have here is a random collection of 16 tracks each with no rhyme or reason with a lack of hooks or memorable melodies. Tate says himself it is suppose to be just a collection of songs, and it shows as the regular edition has a different track listing, which I still don’t understand the reasons behind. This album is nothing that the band has done before. I remember I think bosk said that Scott said in an interview that this is a metal record. Calling this a metal record is a laughable as calling Symphony X’s Iconoclast perfect dinner party music. This is the softest, tamest album Queensryche have come up with. I give the band credit though for doing something different, I actually always like when bands evolve and do different styles. Saying that, there’s a difference between evolved styles and just mediocre songs.
The Music/Performances;
Now, Tate says this album is more focused on rhythm with the guitars being more of a sprinkled delicacy, instead as acting as a rhythm instrument. From that description, that’s actually what we get here. The combo of Scott and Eddie is really, really great. With the limited music they have to work with, they have provided a solid, great rhythm section to this record, which does make parts of it quite enjoyable. Michael also does a wonderful job. Michael’s choices in tones, notes and just his choice of where to put different guitar lines is really excellent. It’s a different side of his guitar playing we rarely see and with the simplicity of what’s on offer here, he sounds fantastic. The two or three guitar solos he does get, you can hear some classic Ryche styles trying to get through, although he’s cut short but Tate.
It’s funny how Tate driven this record is and he in fact is the weakest link. The band performs these songs really well, but Tate just doesn’t seal the deal. He sounds old, tired, run down, and he just doesn’t put anything into his vocals at all, it just sounds like he doesn’t give a shit. He also goes for some highs which almost verge on his voice cracking and straining. A disappointing performance from him which brings the record down. Also, I don’t know what Parker’s role is. I’d be very surprised if he even played a single note on this record. Also, it’s amusing how he is in the band photos but not even listed as a permanent band member. His name gets listed under Randy who played keyboards as ‘additional guitar’. Christ, poor bastard.
Music and Performances: 6/10. (The 6 is for the other three not Tate.)
Production;
The overall sound of the disc I think is very good. Considering Kelly is back at the helm I was worried, but sonically, the record sounds great. The atmospheres that the songs are trying to deliver really shine through the production, mostly in the music though. Again, Tate’s vocals are ordinary and I feel they are also not produced and mixed that well in the record. It just seems at times that his vocals are popped on top of the music, not meshing with the music at all. Also, there’s a lot of vocals here that should have been re done, it brings it down. I can get past that though and mostly the audio quality of the album is good.
Production: 3/5
Lyrics;
Oh Christ, I feel I’ve addressed the good things of the record, and yes I do feel this record has some good. Now we get down to the songs and lyrics. The lyrics here are just atrocious. Coming from a guy that wrote the Mindcrime story, it’s just too hard to forgive some of these lyrics, they are just fucking embarrassing. The song titles themselves are a joke. Wot We Do, LUVNU, WTF, come on, give us Queensryche fans some fucking credit Geoff. Even some songs which have some decent ideas, are just executed poorly and just amateurish. I will save some of the topics for my reviews on the songs.
Lyrics: 0/5
Songs;
Get Stated: Okay, I thought Pearl Jam released a new cd and it was put in the DTC cover by mistake when I first put this song on, because that’s what it sounds like the band is going for on this song. I love Pearl Jam though so overall this really is one of the better songs. It’s got a good grove, and I like the middle section. This is decent radio rock, nothing more. 3/5
Hot Spot Junkie: One of only two songs that Eddie contributes to. This musically is also not too bad. I didn’t mind this when it got going, but Tate, WTF Tate. Wifi frenzy world?! The way Tate sings Youtube makes me want to strangle some fucking cats, and I love cats. Seriously, these lyrics, and Tate’s delivery is just awful. With better lyrics and a more solid performance, this would have been okay. Saying that, overall I don’t mind it and it’s one of the only songs that hints at the older Ryche sound. 2.5/5
Got It Bad: At this stage of the record I was thinking, “Hey, this isn’t as bad as everyone is making it out to be.” Then this song came on. Seriously, WTF is this? This song seems to be about Geoff having a sunglasses fetish, which, I can’t really relate to. The chorus is just awful. Eddie and Scott try and save it and really after multiple listens, surprisingly, I’m actually singing along to the chorus. LOL. It is a little catchy but it doesn’t mean it not bad. Also, ‘Bad dog, don’t make me beg,’ *slaps forehead* 1.5/5
Around the World: I thought the opening credits of ER was on my TV when this started, sounds exactly like it. Not really digging this song, ‘all we need is love’.......hmm....I’m a sucker for a decent love song but this is just crap really. It has some really nice melodies, and a decent atmosphere and I really like Michael’s guitar, but really it doesn’t cut it. 2/5
Higher: I guess the cabaret thing they were doing really rubbed off here. A more big band, jazzy type which really isn’t too bad. Again, the rhythm section is great and I like Michaels solo. The sax is a nice touch too. It gets old really quick, and one problem I have with the record is Geoff and his melodies just all sound the same through most of the songs. There’s variety in the songs, which is a good thing, but no variety with Geoff’s vocals. I hate the ending too, it ruins the mood of the song. 2.5/5
Retail Therapy: Here’s a good one, despite some rubbish lyrics again. This one reminds me a bit of Hit the Black. One of the more rockier songs on the record, and one of the highlights for me. A really good chorus. The lyrics do let it down. 3.5/5
At the Edge: Probably the highlight along with RT, and the only song that reminds me of Queensryche. A darker tone and atmosphere. It’s not as accessible and needs some listens but the second half of the song is good with some great prog elements. The band really work together well on this one. 4/5
Broken: Something very different here. It needs to be a little shorter, but for what it is, it’s okay. This is where the album starts to get dragged down but songs which just don’t click and are less memorable. I don’t know what Tate was going for here, it’s different, but doesn’t deserve repeated listens. If Tate put in more of a performance it would have been better. 2.5/5
Hard Times: Just boring. Goes for like five minutes and goes nowhere. Again, the three musicians deliver what they have to work with, but it’s nowhere near enough to save it. Poorly placed after Broken. 1/5
Drive: Bit more of a groove here. Nice darker riffs, but again, the lyrics are ordinary. I like the chorus, this also reminds me a little of older Queensryche. 3/5
I Believe: WTF is this? This sucks, just fucking shut up Geoff!! 0.5/5
LUVNU: Crap, childish title, but reminds me a little of HITNF, but not as good. Simple music, average lyrics, but it’s listenable. Doesn’t go anywhere though. 2/5
Wot We Do: This is by far the worst song Queensryche has ever done. Absolute shit lyrics, shit music, shit performance. No, just no. 0/5
I Take You: Hmm...there’s nothing memorable here, but I’ll listen to it, it’s actually good compared to the shit song before. 2/5
The Lie: The second Eddie song, but I don’t like it. I don’t mind the chunky guitars here but the tempo again is lacking and by this stage of the album, I’ve had enough. Don’t mind Michaels parts though, you get again a glimpse of older Ryche. 2/5
Big Noize: They can’t even fucking spell properly. This could have had some potential. I wish they grew on the ideas and evolved the songs instead of keeping it the same. A slow end to a very slow second half of the album. 1.5/5
Songs: 33.5/80
As you can see, it’s the songs that really let this album down. Some okay listens towards the start but by track 8 it just gets slower and slower and is just tiring. I feel I have been as fair as possible. I really have given the album a good go and in some parts, I enjoyed it. I haven’t compared too much to old Ryche and I feel I have taken the songs for what they are. It interested me with the band doing something so different, but since the songs just don’t cut it, I’m pretty over it. I will chuck it on once in a while, because it is something different, but I don’t like where the bands is headed. After American Solider, I was very happy, that was a return to good music and there was hope for Queensryche. It would be interesting to see where they go from here. I was going to say that this is the second worst Ryche record after Q2K, but then I remembered that that album has Right Side of My Mind, so therefore, Dedicated to Chaos is Queensryche’s worst record.
Score: 42.5/100
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^Great review.
The big question for me, as a big fan since the first EP ( is that whistling I hear...yep) is what now? Executives at a label
have budgets and therefore minimal expectations of sales performance. Will the exec's give QR a pass on this and allow
them 100% creative direction or will they put pressure on QR to change direction? Who knows. I really envision increasing
tension between members of the band in the coming months, and that will increase tenfold if the label is breathing
down Tate's back. Time will tell.
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I'm actually pretty astounding that there are even fans like you, wolf, who are still even interested to see what they do after this.
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Nice review wolf! :)
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Interesting comparison note: At the upcoming High Voltage festival, Queensryce are buried at the #4 spot on the first day whereas DT are headlining day 2.
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good review........i agree that the only two good tracks are RT and At the Edge..........the rest is pure garbage. I said it before, I will never play the hard copy of DTC ever again.
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Interesting comparison note: At the upcoming High Voltage festival, Queensryce are buried at the #4 spot on the first day whereas DT are headlining day 2.
Interesting comparison indeed! :rollin
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Bought 4 tickets today for $72. I remember when I couldn't get 2 tickets for that kind of money.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HcG4oY3jf4
Seriously, this is what the band wanted to keep secret from public to ensure only people who have purchased the album can view it? Pffft!
I just watched it for the first time today. 634 views. So much for "exclusive content" being a strong incentive to actually buy the album. Hell, even assuming all 634 views were from people who actually bought the album (and I'm sure more then a few of them were not), that's only 1 in every 16 people who purchased it in the first week.
BTW Wolf, great review. Pretty close to how I felt about the album, too. :tup
EDIT: I just noticed the video in Wolf's link, while being the official video, is not on QR's official youtube account, so I'm guessing some fan uploaded it themselves. Intriguingly, this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRWcdSTVCUc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRWcdSTVCUc) does seem to be hosted by the band, is open to public viewing, and I have noticed the view counter has shot up like 100 views in the past minute, (although it still has less then 300). Curiouser and curiouser...........
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Thanks guys. :metal
Dark Master, yeah, I just searched youtube and it came up. it's definitely just from a fan. Interesting that the band themselves have hosted it.
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Nice review wolf, but imo some of your scores are too high. It really doesn't deserve a 42.5/100. I mean, it only has one decent Queensryche sounding song on it. The rest are Geoff Tate and Friends and in most cases aren't even mediocre songs. Just my opinion. ;)
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Nice review wolf, but imo some of your scores are too high. It really doesn't deserve a 42.5/100. I mean, it only has one decent Queensryche sounding song on it. The rest are Geoff Tate and Friends and in most cases aren't even mediocre songs. Just my opinion. ;)
Yeah, I felt I may have been very generous, perhaps too much. Nevertheless, as I said there were elements I did enjoy.
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Nice review wolf, but imo some of your scores are too high. It really doesn't deserve a 42.5/100. I mean, it only has one decent Queensryche sounding song on it. The rest are Geoff Tate and Friends and in most cases aren't even mediocre songs. Just my opinion. ;)
Yeah, I felt I may have been very generous, perhaps too much. Nevertheless, as I said there were elements I did enjoy.
That's cool. Glad you enjoyed some of it.
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Don't know if this has been brought up before, but on the Queensryche Youtube channel, the video for 'Wot We Do', has has the ratings disabled and they're controlling the comments that get let through.
I saw it last month and there was probably only one positive comment in a sea of negativity. Guessing that they couldn't handle the criticism.
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Don't know if this has been brought up before, but on the Queensryche Youtube channel, the video for 'Wot We Do', has has the ratings disabled and they're controlling the comments that get let through.
I saw it last month and there was probably only one positive comment in a sea of negativity. Guessing that they couldn't handle the criticism.
This is Geoff Tate we' re talking about, here. He has kind of become the MJ of metal/prog/what-ever-post-1997-QR-is-sposed-to-be.
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This is Geoff Tate we' re talking about, here. He has kind of become the MJ of metal/prog/what-ever-post-1997-QR-is-sposed-to-be.
I'm not going to strain my brain thinking about it. I miss old Queensryche, I loved Silent Lucidity <3
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I'm not going to strain my brain thinking about it. I miss old Queensryche, I loved Silent Lucidity <3
My god, do I love Empire!
I'd rank it up there as one of the best albums of the last 30 years or so, and there's quite a good deal of great post-1980 music.
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Growing up and following QR during that time, I remember the outcry when Empire was released to the hardcore QR fans. I personally loved the album. It was in the same vein as the Black album for Metallica as a stylistic change. Bigger and bolder in sound.
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Growing up and following QR during that time, I remember the outcry when Empire was released to the hardcore QR fans. I personally loved the album. It was in the same vein as the Black album for Metallica as a stylistic change. Bigger and bolder in sound.
I guess it's one of those cases like Metallica's fanbase regarding the Black one vs. the first 4. Though I know some probably more easily identify Q with The Warning or Eyes of a Stranger, when I think Queensryche, I think Best I Can, or Silent Lucidity, or Another Rainy Night.
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I don't really like Empire...
Best I can, The Thin Line, One and only, Hand on heart and title track are OK. As for the rest... I listened to it a whole bunch of time, gave it a couple of months, and still nothing. :(
Mindcrime and Rage for order are the real deal for me. :metal
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I agree with Mladen. I like Empire but its not on the level of the first three for me.
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I loved Empire, even having been a fan for several years prior to it. Nowhere near a WTF moment as when I first played Promised Land. Before you start shouting I love it now.
Is There Anybody Listening? is still a great song. Della Brown, Hand On heart and One And Only are the only less than awesome songs on Empire for me. Each one of them is infinitly better than anything on DTC.
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I loved Empire, even having been a fan for several years prior to it.
Is There Anybody Listening? is still a great song. Della Brown, Hand On heart and One And Only are the only less than awesome songs on Empire for me. Each one of them is infinitly better than anything on DTC.
Everything you just said about Empire, I agree with completely. :biggrin:
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Empire was a chance for QR to have mainstream success; they took the chance and were very successful. A lot of the songs on Empire have crossover appeal. Not as good as the albums before it, but still a great disc.
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Don't know if this has been brought up before, but on the Queensryche Youtube channel, the video for 'Wot We Do', has has the ratings disabled and they're controlling the comments that get let through.
I saw it last month and there was probably only one positive comment in a sea of negativity. Guessing that they couldn't handle the criticism.
I think they are trying to limit their losses, but it's too late. Funny, given that Geoff believes that album sales aren't important.
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Geoff believes that album sales aren't important.
Of course he doesn't care about sales. Hence why DTC was true-blue QR and not totally commercial, or anything.
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Empire is as good as their earlier albums. Hand on Heart is one of their most underrated songs.
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Empire is better than their pre-Mindcrime albums.
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I much prefer Warning, RFO and O:M to Empire, but they are all good.
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I loved OM but when I heard Empire I was blown away. So many great songs with radio potential without being radio friendly if that's possible. What I mean is they released a video and got a ton airplay and that was Anybody Listening?. A 7:41 song of that style and the video had MTV airplay as well as radio airplay?!?! Unreal.
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Those were the days... :corn
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So, according to Tate, rock is dead, a lot of what comprises rock is "boneheaded," and heavy chord progressions are only what you play when you are first learning how to play guitar.
QUEENSRźCHE Singer: 'Rock Is Pretty Much Dead' - July 18, 2011
QUEENSRźCHE singer Geoff Tate was interviewed for the summer 2011 issue of U.K.'s Classic Rock magazine. A couple of excerpts from the chat follow below.
Classic Rock: You've called ["Dedicated To Chaos"] a "headphones record."
Geoff: That's the way people listen to music now. People today are plugged in switching between their iPod and phone, back and forth, listening to music all day long. No, I don't miss the days of guys siting around listening to vinyl. I don't miss the past much. I love the age we live in. Every day there's something new to wrap your head around. I want to keep embracing new ideas, technology, work of art, literature, films. If you stop doing that, your brain gets lazy.
Classic Rock: Songs like "Wot We Do" sound like hip-hop. Can rock fans handle that?
Geoff: Well, I think they should. Rock is pretty much dead. If you look at the numbers, it's definitely not the music of the times anymore. If it's gonna keep moving, bands need to embrace new ideas. There's a lot of elements to rock that, mentally speaking, are kinda boneheaded. Like the whole "chunk-chunk-chunk" guitar progression — the stuff you play when you're learning the damn thing. You would hope bands would get beyond that.
Classic Rock: Wikipedia describes QUEENSRźCHE as "progressive metal." So you agree?
Geoff: Absolutely not. I never want to be in anybody's genre. I don't want anybody to ever tell me what I belong to, where I should go, what I'm part of. That's not anybody's business but my own. Brackets are so over. Honestly, these days, with record companies pretty much gone, all the rules are changing. There's not gonna be any need for genres or categorization, it's all gonna be alphabetical order. The beauty of the Internet is that we can all invent ourselves any way we wish.
"Get Started", the new video from QUEENSRźCHE, can now be seen below.
"Get Started" comes off QUEENSRźCHE's new album, "Dedicated To Chaos", which sold 8,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to land at position No. 70 on The Billboard 200 chart. The band's previous CD, the epic concept album "American Soldier", opened with 21,000 units back in April 2009 to enter the chart at No. 25. This was roughly half the first-week tally registered by QUEENSRźCHE's "Operation: Mindcrime II" album, which shifted 44,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release back in April 2006 to debut at No. 14 on The Billboard 200 chart.
QUEENSRźCHE's 2003 effort, "Tribe", sold 20,000 copies in the first week while 1999's "Q2K", opened with sales of 28,000.
QUEENSRźCHE's top-selling album by far is 1990's "Empire", which was certified triple-platinum in October 1994 for sales in excess of three million copies in the United States. The original "Operation: Mindcrime" release (1988) attained platinum status in August 1991, while 1994's "Promised Land" reached the same plateau in December 1994.
"Dedicated To Chaos" was released on June 28 in North America via Loud & Proud Records, a Roadrunner Records imprint focusing on established artists. The band is currently touring in support of the new opus, which was recorded in the group's hometown and produced by Kelly Gray.
Source: https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=160793
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This blows my mind. It's like Tate lost a bet with the devil and is being forced to destroy QR. This makes no sense
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Well, to be fair, a lot of modern rock on the radio isn't that exciting and could be called "boneheaded," I suppose. In the well-put words of Muse's Matt Bellamy: "Rock is one of the most conservative genres of music when it really shouldn't be." So Geoff is kinda right in that bands should try and push rock in a bit of a different direction or just improve in general. Too bad Queensryche isn't doing either of those things anymore and Geoff's ego is getting in the way of seeing what a joke Queensryche's become.
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Wow...just wow... :facepalm:
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Well, to be fair, a lot of modern rock on the radio isn't that exciting and could be called "boneheaded," I suppose.
The thing is, you can make that argument about any genre of music, really. Every genre has it's leaders and it's followers and it is merely human nature that there would be more followers then leaders. 90% of the bands that make up any sub-genre of metal, for example, don't really think too far outside the box because all they want to do is play the same kind of music their idols did. This is how many genre and sub-genres end up stagnating: when the leading bands stop making music and no one steps up to the plate to continue to develop the style. That issue really is not unique to metal or rock, though.
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Oh, and Geoff Tate, please, just shut up already. Do yourself a favour, and shut up. Don't open your mouth again. Ever. I was going to say that perhaps you should at least still be allowed to sing, but given your lackluster performance on DTC, as well as the two albums that preceded it, I don't think the modern music consumer will really miss out on much in that regard, either. But really, anything that has come out of your mouth for the past decade and a half has only served to damage your already fragile reputation. Just retire from the music world, and stick to your wine. At least that is something you can do on your own without help from Chris DeGarmo.
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Deleted for asshattery on my part.
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I first heard Queensryche on the radio in the early 90s. Empire and O:M's singles were getting heavy play, but being a wee lad, it was just another band on the radio to me, but I never forgot those songs. It wasn't until 2004 that I was fully introduced to them. My step-dad took MY BRUTHA and I to see them when they were playing O:M in full. So in preparation, I bought O:M a day before the show (I know, some preparation right?) and we only made it to The Needle Lies, I think it was, before we got to Ruth Eckerd Hall. After that show, I was a Queensryche freak for awhile. I never liked the direction they went after Empire though.
Can someone clarify if The Lady Wore Black was ever a single, because I could swear I heard it on the radio when I was younger.
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Can someone clarify if The Lady Wore Black was ever a single, because I could swear I heard it on the radio when I was younger.
Yes, actually both TLWB and Queen of the Reich were released as singles to promote the 83 EP.
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The beauty of the Internet is that we can all invent ourselves any way we wish.
Yes, Geoff Tate, you can. And you have apparently reinvented your band into being a complete piece of crap. Congratulations. :lol :lol :lol
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This...this isn't even fun anymore.
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Deleted for asshattery on my part.
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It's funny how Tate is saying that we should accept songs like Wot We Do. He just doesn't get it. :facepalm:
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So...
1. Geoff sounds confused about pretty much everything he is asked about.
2. I guess I better change my musical preferences in order to keep up with the times because Geoff says so.
3. Geoff has completely lost his mind.
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So...
1. Geoff is confused about pretty much everything he is asked about.
2. I guess I better change my musical preferences in order to keep up with the times because Geoff's the clear embodiment of taste and the cutting edge of new, innovative music. Because he says so.
3. Geoff has completely lost his mind, and will pull any sort of BS out of his ass in a weak attempt to make it look like he hasn't.
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:rollin
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What can you say, he's like a musical Charlie Sheen. Except bald. And possibly drug free. (I don't know anything about whether or not he does drugs)
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Hard to say what's in that wine. Must be something.
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Must have something to do with that wi-fi wave he picked up on the You Tube.
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Who knows whats really going on with Tate. I like the Charlie Sheen analogy; he just seems clueless with what QR is about and what the fans want.
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I'm pretty sure he said he didn't care what the fans want, and that he's making the music for himself first and foremost.
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I think Tate is an enigma at this point in his career.
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Or really desperate to live his fantasy life of a male pop-star.
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If he doesn't care about the fans, then the band and himself deserve this mega fallout and the financial drop that comes along with it. I will always consider myself a fan; but I would be very embarrased to play DTC for somebody and say that I am a fan of the band. "Wot We Do" makes me sick.
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I just pretend they split up after Empire, just like I pretend Jason died for good at the end of Friday The 13th Part VII.
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I just pretend they split up after Empire, just like I pretend Jason died for good at the end of Friday The 13th Part VII.
I generally agree with you on the first point. However, I ask you what the hell seventh Friday The 13th are you rambling about? There were only 4 movies in that series. :lol
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I just pretend they split up after Empire, just like I pretend Jason died for good at the end of Friday The 13th Part VII.
I generally agree with you on the first point. However, I ask you what the hell seventh Friday The 13th are you rambling about? There were only 4 movies in that series. :lol
I hope that's just you taking it further by saying he died at the end of The Final Chapter by the hands of Tommy Jarvis. Please let that be the case.
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I just pretend they split up after Empire, just like I pretend Jason died for good at the end of Friday The 13th Part VII.
I generally agree with you on the first point. However, I ask you what the hell seventh Friday The 13th are you rambling about? There were only 4 movies in that series. :lol
Nope, there were 5 more sequels after The Final Chapter, a remake, and Freddy VS. Jason.
Jason Takes Manhattan was a disaster. Jason Lives is the best of the series.
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I just pretend they split up after Empire, just like I pretend Jason died for good at the end of Friday The 13th Part VII.
I generally agree with you on the first point. However, I ask you what the hell seventh Friday The 13th are you rambling about? There were only 4 movies in that series. :lol
I hope that's just you taking it further by saying he died at the end of The Final Chapter by the hands of Tommy Jarvis. Please let that be the case.
Um, yeah. I find the rest of the series after it to be far weaker.
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I just pretend they split up after Empire, just like I pretend Jason died for good at the end of Friday The 13th Part VII.
I generally agree with you on the first point. However, I ask you what the hell seventh Friday The 13th are you rambling about? There were only 4 movies in that series. :lol
I hope that's just you taking it further by saying he died at the end of The Final Chapter by the hands of Tommy Jarvis. Please let that be the case.
Um, yeah. I find the rest of the series after it to be far weaker.
Very True, but Part 6 and 7 were both very enjoyable if not just for Jason.
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2, 4, and 6 are the best of the series. The rest are abortions.
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2, 4, and 6 are the best of the series. The rest are abortions.
But 7 had Jason's most badass look ever. Zombie Jason is fucking brutal. So brutal in fact that they had to seriously edit the movie down enough to make it an R rating.
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2, 4, and 6 are the best of the series. The rest are abortions.
But 7 had Jason's most badass look ever. Zombie Jason is fucking brutal. So brutal in fact that they had to seriously edit the movie down enough to make it an R rating.
Zombie Jason himself was cool. The overall movie was horrible.
Oh well, at least you're not praising Jason Takes Manhattan.
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2, 4, and 6 are the best of the series. The rest are abortions.
But 7 had Jason's most badass look ever. Zombie Jason is fucking brutal. So brutal in fact that they had to seriously edit the movie down enough to make it an R rating.
Zombie Jason himself was cool. The overall movie was horrible.
Oh well, at least you're not praising Jason Takes Manhattan.
That one part where he punches the black guy's head off is gold. The rest is some other thing that is unpleasant.
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2, 4, and 6 are the best of the series. The rest are abortions.
But 7 had Jason's most badass look ever. Zombie Jason is fucking brutal. So brutal in fact that they had to seriously edit the movie down enough to make it an R rating.
Zombie Jason himself was cool. The overall movie was horrible.
Oh well, at least you're not praising Jason Takes Manhattan.
Fuck that movie and fuck every movie after that and fuck New Line Cinema with a hot poker and Sean S. Cunningham too.
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Zook, I think this is the first time you and I have found common ground on something.
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2, 4, and 6 are the best of the series. The rest are abortions.
But 7 had Jason's most badass look ever. Zombie Jason is fucking brutal. So brutal in fact that they had to seriously edit the movie down enough to make it an R rating.
Zombie Jason himself was cool. The overall movie was horrible.
Oh well, at least you're not praising Jason Takes Manhattan.
Fuck that movie and fuck every movie after that and fuck New Line Cinema with a hot poker and Sean S. Cunningham too.
What would you say is worse, the sucky 13ths or the sucky Freddie movies?
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As a big Nightmare on Elm Street fan, I'm more inclined to say that the NOES series has less suckage, though Freddy's Dead is downright embarrassing.
I could never hate any part of the series, though. I grew up on it, so I'm biased.
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I see, I'd agree that it has less sucky films than Jason.
I do find Freddy's Dead to be a non-sucky one, though, due to its hilarity.
Can't say the same for Teh Dream Child, though its Freddie moments are hilarious as usual.
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2, 4, and 6 are the best of the series. The rest are abortions.
But 7 had Jason's most badass look ever. Zombie Jason is fucking brutal. So brutal in fact that they had to seriously edit the movie down enough to make it an R rating.
Zombie Jason himself was cool. The overall movie was horrible.
Oh well, at least you're not praising Jason Takes Manhattan.
Fuck that movie and fuck every movie after that and fuck New Line Cinema with a hot poker and Sean S. Cunningham too.
What would you say is worse, the sucky 13ths or the sucky Freddie movies?
Well let's see:
Good Nightmares - 1, 3, 4, 6, 7. Yes 4 is actually decent and 6 is hilarious.
Good Fridays - 2, 3, 4, 6, 7. Last time I watched part 1 I was bored out of my mind.
Bad Nightmares - 2, 5, FvJ
Bad Fridays - 1, 5, 8, JGTH, JX, FvJ
Sorry Jason... :zook3:
Oh and fuck Platinum Dunes too!
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Cool we see eye-to-eye on Elm Street. Except for 2. It might be my favorite, actually.
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Nightmare 4 is severely underrated. I've never understood the hate for it.
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Is anyone here familiar with Humongous?
I've heard it's horrendous and one of the most depressing and pointless horror films ever.
I'd like to know if it's worth watching for the badness.
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I like how the Queensryche thread has suddenly become 100% more enjoyable now that it's the 'horror movie thread.'
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I'm actually seeing Queensryche next weekend :D
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Hope it's a good show and that they play old stuff.
Just one thing, man, you're on the wrong thread.
So, um, it'd probably be best to go over to the, um, Queensryche thread.
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Except for 2. It might be my favorite, actually.
Is you serious?!
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Except for 2. It might be my favorite, actually.
Is you serious?!
It's almost as funny as 6, IMO.
If it wasn't so funny, I'd agree with you about its sucking.
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Why would you ever hate Nightmare 2? Because it sucks and makes Freddy look ridiculous with slime and knives just protruding from his fingers?
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*long tortured route back to "on-topic"*
2, 4, and 6 are the best of the series. The rest are abortions.
But 7 had Jason's most badass look ever. Zombie Jason is fucking brutal. So brutal in fact that they had to seriously edit the movie down enough to make it an R rating.
Zombie Jason himself was cool. The overall movie was horrible.
Oh well, at least you're not praising Jason Takes Manhattan.
Fuck that movie and fuck every movie after that and fuck New Line Cinema with a hot poker and Sean S. Cunningham too.
What would you say is worse, the sucky 13ths or the sucky Freddie movies?
Well let's see:
Good Nightmares - 1, 3, 4, 6, 7. Yes 4 is actually decent and 6 is hilarious.
Good Fridays - 2, 3, 4, 6, 7. Last time I watched part 1 I was bored out of my mind.
Bad Nightmares - 2, 5, FvJ
Bad Fridays - 1, 5, 8, JGTH, JX, FvJ
Sorry Jason... :zook3:
Oh and fuck Platinum Dunes too!
Yes, and III had Dokken when they were sorta metal. Back during that timeframe, other than a festival show, I don't really see Dokken and Queensryche sharing a bill. But fast forward to 2007...
Just prior to the Take Cover tour, Geoff sees Don Dokken's solo act at a casino, and thinks to himself, "Hey, Don's a cool guy, and this kinda accountic lounge-singing thing with a bit of comedy thrown in is kinda cool." So he takes Don out on the road as the opener. It was quite obvious seeing that show that Don's voice was wrecked. But here's the thing: Don knew it. That's why he changed up his act and made it something he could actually pull off. He never presented it as, "I'm doing this because it's what I find cool, and the fans who get it will come along for the ride and screw anyone who doesn't get my 'art.'" It was obvious his mindset was, "Hey, I'm doing the best I can with what I've got, and thankfully I still have something left to give the fans, even if it isn't ideal." In other words, I don't think Don Dokken is delusional. Or at least he wasn't back in 2007. Rather than try to rewrite history and dictate his fans' tastes for them, he's just playing the hand that he's been dealt. See the difference?
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Why would you ever hate Nightmare 2? Because it sucks and makes Freddy look ridiculous with slime and knives just protruding from his fingers?
The only cool thing about 2 is the pool scene. Everything else is awful and not funny in the slightest. At least You can call Freddy's Dead a Comedy Horror.
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Why would you ever hate Nightmare 2? Because it sucks and makes Freddy look ridiculous with slime and knives just protruding from his fingers?
The only cool thing about 2 is the pool scene. Everything else is awful and not funny in the slightest. At least You can call Freddy's Dead a Comedy Horror.
Nah, I agree. I was mostly being facetious.
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Ok, so guitarists need to move on from the chunk chunk chunk style of play...
(Aren't they on tour with Judas Priest?)
Rock is dead...
(Wasn't Geoff on That Metal Show about a year ago? And do they not play rock on tour? And aren't they on tour with Judas Priest?)
Oh, and look, here in Portland on Aug 28 they are booked on the PDX ROCK Fest.
https://www.pdxrockfest.com/home/
Twat
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Are you kidding me? I missed the Nightmare/Friday discussion?! Can we please take this to a new thread? :lol
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6p3iiUZcwI&feature=feedu
Why fucking post this? :lol
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6p3iiUZcwI&feature=feedu
Why fucking post this? :lol
:rollin :rollin :rollin
:lolpalm:
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:lol The part where he checked "Black/African American" on the check-in form and then winked at the camera made me laugh. And then I was like, "okaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy...why exactly is Fozzy on camera now?" The whole thing was...interesting.
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I'm glad I didn't waste my time with either of those shows; going to or performing at.
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I decided to try Dedicated to Chaos... well... some songs are really, really interesting (Broken and Big Noize for me), some are good, some are passable, and some are bad or even awful (the first four songs on the album should be nuked immediately). Well it certainly is... chaotic. Extremely inconsistent album.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6p3iiUZcwI&feature=feedu
Why fucking post this? :lol
Holy lol, even their vlogs are boring and stupid.
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I can't wait for the vlog that shows step-by-step how Geoff eats his cereal.
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I can't wait for the vlog that shows step-by-step how Geoff eats his cereal.
It will be the riveting sequel to the one where he goes to the store to buy the cereal.
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I can't wait for the vlog that shows step-by-step how Geoff eats his cereal.
It will be the riveting sequel to the one where he goes to the store to buy the cereal.
Stay tuned to see if Geoff reads the back of the cereal box.
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I'd personally enjoy that more than Dedicated to Chaos
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I'd personally enjoy that more than Dedicated to Chaos
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I'd personally enjoy that more than Dedicated to Chaos
I'd also say that it's easily the best thing they've done post-97.
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I'd personally enjoy that more than Dedicated to Chaos
I'd also say that it's easily the best thing they've done post-97.
I'd say it's easily the worst thing they've ever done.
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I'd personally enjoy that more than Dedicated to Chaos
I'd also say that it's easily the best thing they've done post-97.
I'd say it's easily the worst thing they've ever done.
I think you may have misunderstood me. I also feel Dedicated to Chaos is the worst thing they've ever done. But I feel the hospital video is their best work since HITNF.
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I'd personally enjoy that more than Dedicated to Chaos
I'd also say that it's easily the best thing they've done post-97.
I'd say it's easily the worst thing they've ever done.
I think you may have misunderstood me. I also feel Dedicated to Chaos is the worst thing they've ever done. But I feel the hospital video is their best work since HITNF.
Yes, a simple misunderstanding. ;)
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But I feel the hospital video is their best work since HITNF.
??? But why would you even compare something lame with something amazing in the first place?
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Please elaborate?
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On one hand, you have HITNF. On the other, you have the hospital video. That's like making a comparison of bacon cooked by the very hand of God in his own kitchen on one hand vs. a bowl of dead rats that has been putrifying in the sun for two months on the other hand. I don't get the comparison.
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Perhaps I used "best since" improperly; I was trying to say that of their stuff after HITNF (which I agree is a good album), the hospital video is probably the best. I find it entertaining.
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I always forget that Bosk loves what was until recently Queensryche's worst album.
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I can't wait for the vlog that shows step-by-step how Geoff eats his cereal.
:lol :rollin
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I can't wait for the vlog that shows step-by-step how Geoff eats his cereal.
:lol :rollin
Will the next album have a track called Geoff's Fabulous Breakfast?
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Honey Nut Junky
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Sigged. :tup
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Honey Nut Junky
:rollin
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Despite what one may think of HITNF and the handful of cuts Degarmo was on from Tribe, I am so glad he jumped ship when he did. I don't think I could stomach him being a part of this whole bullshit of tate's nowadays.
At least with him gone, and him being the main songwriter, you can separate the degarmo years from everything else, and see the separation.
Like Floyd without Roger, or Kansas without Livgren, etc. While the bands carried on, the split was distinct.
Queensryche is playing literally a stone's throw from my wife's office, and I'm not going. I WILL NOT support this shit.
I'll just continue AnybodyListening.net, be a Defecation of Chaos HATER, and revel in the real band -- Tate, Degarmo, Wilton, Jackson, Rockenfield. WITHOUT SUSAN FUCKING TATE.
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I agree with you wholeheartedly. Except for your comparison of post-Chris QR to post-Water Pink Floyd. That stuff's boss.
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I agree with you wholeheartedly. Except for your comparison of post-Chris QR to post-Water Pink Floyd. That stuff's boss.
Don't take me the wrong way, I like post-Waters Floyd. I was saying that the band really is a different band without Waters, and his lyrical and musical contributions. Still good, but different. I like post-Degarmo QR too (except Defecation of Chaos), but it really isn't the same (for me) band, given the totally different approach in songwriting.
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(https://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h414/BanksD102196/Reaction%20Images/geoff-tate-of-queensryche.jpg)
some how my friends and i have turned this image into an inside joke
somehow i laugh every time i see it
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I gave a listen to Hot spot junkie.
Should I feel guilty for enjoying the groove and the main riff? That was quite rockin'. :metal
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That is actually one of the best songs on the record.
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The music of that song is good. It's the lyrics that are really stupid. The actual intent of what he is getting at (the subject matter) is cool social commentary. But the lyrics are stupid and ridiculous. Same as Retail Therapy. Music is ok, nothing bad, nothing hugely good, but the lyrics are trash. Subject wise, it could be interesting, but the lyrics are just horrendous.
Defecation of Chaos is the ultimate example of what happens when you don't have someone tell the lead singer "no, we're not doing that," and throw quality control out the window. You get a middle-aged windbag who comes across as out of touch, smug and totally missing the point.
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Yeah, well said.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u6kpXCjOI8
This is really really bad. (imo)
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That has to be one of the most godawful covers I've ever heard...
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Oh no. That was NOT enjoyable.
Angela shouldn't growl Geoff Tate's classic lines ever.
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Oh no. That was NOT enjoyable.
Angela shouldn't growl ever.
Fixed
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That has to be one of the most amazing covers I've ever heard...
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Did you seriously think that was good?
I'm not just knocking the vocals, it was a pretty horrid cover all the way around.
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I'm with you Nick.
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Did you seriously think that was good?
I'm not just knocking the vocals, it was a pretty horrid cover all the way around.
For a death metal version of Queensryche, it's pretty good. The thing is, though, death metal is so far away stylistically from QR that the radically different aural aesthetic of the cover, juxtaposed to the original, is very, very jarring (and unlike, say, when Children of Bodem covered Brittany Spears, this isn't intended to be a parody.) For what it is, I think the cover is pretty bad ass, but what it is precisely is an entirely different animal from the original.
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I don't like Arch Enemy or Angela Gossow, so it's no surprise to me that I thought the cover was godawful.
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I don't like Arch Enemy or Angela Gossow, so it's no surprise to me that I thought the cover was godawful.
Exactly my thoughts
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I like growls.
I like DeGarmo-era Queensryche.
But you don't need to be a genius to realize these things just sound awful when mixed together. Also, never really been a fan of Arch Enemy.
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That was worse than I could have imagined.
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Check this out:
https://www.theonion.com/articles/what-was-your-first-concert-ours-was-queensryche-i,21231/
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Was listening to the Boneyard on Sirius tonight. They played what I suspect was one of their new songs (it was awful!). The DJ said it as a song they've been opening with. Funny part was, intentional or not, he introduced them as Queens-wreck.
How appropriate.
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Get Started is like, one of the two songs from the new album I actually like.
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I found it to be the definition of everything that's wrong with the album. The only songs I found REALLY good were At The Edge and Broken which actually sounded quite emotional and Big Noize which is very interesting. But all the happy rock songs on the album bring it down so hard that even inverting gravity would be unlikely to help.
Also, the thing which really bugs me already on American Soldier is their apparent obsession with harmony vocals. They're EVERYWHERE without a reason.
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I still think DTC is the shits and still haven't ,and still won't, ever listen to the physical copy of the disc ever again. Unless I'm paid a minumum of $5000; then I will think about it. However, with that being said, I still believe "At the Edge" is amazing and one of the best post Degarmo tracks they've ever done. Listen to it constantly on my ipod. Hearing that song, it shows that some potential is still there. But surrounding "At the Edge" with 15 helacious/terrible/horrific tracks obviously brings down the quality of the disc.
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What about the other two I mentioned? Agreed the rest ranges from "meh" to "MY EEEEEARS", but I just really like these three.
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At the Edge and Broken are the only two songs I like on the album. Sad.
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At the Edge, Drive, Hard Times, Big Noize, and Broken are my 5 favorite tracks from DTC. And I'm still shocked every time I hear Wot We Do or Got it Bad--seriously, who thought these songs even had a slight chance of working? I wonder what Wilton's initial reactions were when he listened to them. Would you all agree that these are the two worst songs in QR's history?
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Get Started is like, one of the two songs from the new album I actually like.
Damn! Hard to imagine how bad this disc must be if that's one that you like.
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Defecation of Chaos sucks. Even the songs that are remotely listenable are still average, at the very best.
The critics and the fans have spoken. This is a complete bomb and will likely sink the band's career (even further).
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At the Edge, Drive, Hard Times, Big Noize, and Broken are my 5 favorite tracks from DTC. And I'm still shocked every time I hear Wot We Do or Got it Bad--seriously, who thought these songs even had a slight chance of working? I wonder what Wilton's initial reactions were when he listened to them. Would you all agree that these are the two worst songs in QR's history?
Wot We Do is quite possibly the worst song they've ever done.
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Wot We Do is quite possibly the worst songs ever
fixd
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Damn, 23 pages in and I am just getting around to posting in this thread. I used to be a huge QR fan. In high school, just after Empire was released, Chris Degarmo moved into my neighborhood 1 block from my house. He only lived there about 1 year, but I got to meet him a couple times. Really a friendly soft-spoken guy. Anyway, I saw them live 2X on the Empire tour, once on the Q2K tour and last on the QR/DT tour.
Of course I love all their early stuff right up through Empire. I thought PL was also an amazing album (I tend to like dark moody albums) but was really let down with HITNF though after all these years I have come to like it a lot more and appreciate it for it's more stripped down, simplistic sound. I thought Q2K was just OK and I really was not able to get into Tribe. After Tribe I lost interest in them altogether as the songwriting just became boring to me. I just listened to their latest release and it downright blows. They are a shell of the band they once were.
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At the Edge, Drive, Hard Times, Big Noize, and Broken are my 5 favorite tracks from DTC. And I'm still shocked every time I hear Wot We Do or Got it Bad--seriously, who thought these songs even had a slight chance of working? I wonder what Wilton's initial reactions were when he listened to them. Would you all agree that these are the two worst songs in QR's history?
Wot We Do is quite possibly the worst song they've ever done.
IMO, Wot We Do is by far the worst song they have ever done.
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I just put OM in my listening rotation for the first time in a couple years since I got introduced to the band. Damn good album!
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I miss the real Queensryche.
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The other day I was on Samsara's excellent QR site reading the interviews with Neil Kernon re RFO and it really inspired an evening of QR, well the first 5 anyway. It's hard to describe the awesomeness they once had and it just isn't there anymore. Where the hell did Wilton go?
Also read the discussion about RFO having a running story of vampires and I certainly never picked up on that before. The reference in London to "blood red streaks on velvet throats at night" I did think of the vampire clubs, but I didn't see it in the other songs. Interesting idea but was there ever any confirmation of this from the band?
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Regarding RFO, there are three themes that run in sections on the album:
Personal (vampire-esqe stuff), political and technological.
They run in order like that.
This was an epic discussion back in the day about it:
Pt. 1 - https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=4.0
Pt. 2 - https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=5.0
Thanks for the compliment on the site.
As for Wilton, he's there. Wilton is a riff/solo guy. He comes up with riffs, but he's not the total writing package. He writes these riffs, which are heavy and cool, but ask any singer, and if they are handed a riff as a song idea, they need more than that to write over. That is Wilton's issue. He's not a guy that can take a few riffs, put them together and present a complete song.
Degarmo's strength was that not only was he a completely songwriter, he could take Wilton's ideas, and work with him to arrange an entire song around it that was cool. Without Chris, Wilton's impact is somewhat nullified, because his song ideas aren't songs, just parts.
That's not taking anything away from Whip. His riffs and solos are awesome. I think Tate is an enormous douchebag these days, but how the hell can a writer write over a chug chug chug chugchugchug chug chug riff that just repeats?
remember the song "Murderer" from the awful Tate solo album called MIndcrime II? That song is awesome. But that main riff was what Michael had. That was it. Slater wrote the rest of the song around it, thus Slater's writing credit. He filled Chris' role. Same thing with "The Hands" from that record too. The main riff is Wilton. The rest was Slater.
That's where Wilton's strength lies. But Tate controls QR now. And if he can get Kelly Gray and Randy Gane to hand him songs, instead of having to have someone else work with Michael's riff ideas, that's what he's going to do.
I feel bad for Wilton. Yeah, he should have become more vested in becoming a total songwriter. But on the other hand, his ideas get ignored, and he's a vital element of what made QR cool.
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Awful isn't a word I'd use to describe Mindcrime ll. Even if it's mostly Tate and Slater, at least it sounds like QR, unlike DTC which sounds nothing like QR apart from one song and can be truly classified as awful.
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Regarding RFO, there are three themes that run in sections on the album:
Personal (vampire-esqe stuff), political and technological.
They run in order like that.
This was an epic discussion back in the day about it:
Pt. 1 - https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=4.0
Pt. 2 - https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=5.0
Thanks for the compliment on the site.
As for Wilton, he's there. Wilton is a riff/solo guy. He comes up with riffs, but he's not the total writing package. He writes these riffs, which are heavy and cool, but ask any singer, and if they are handed a riff as a song idea, they need more than that to write over. That is Wilton's issue. He's not a guy that can take a few riffs, put them together and present a complete song.
Degarmo's strength was that not only was he a completely songwriter, he could take Wilton's ideas, and work with him to arrange an entire song around it that was cool. Without Chris, Wilton's impact is somewhat nullified, because his song ideas aren't songs, just parts.
That's not taking anything away from Whip. His riffs and solos are awesome. I think Tate is an enormous douchebag these days, but how the hell can a writer write over a chug chug chug chugchugchug chug chug riff that just repeats?
remember the song "Murderer" from the awful Tate solo album called MIndcrime II? That song is awesome. But that main riff was what Michael had. That was it. Slater wrote the rest of the song around it, thus Slater's writing credit. He filled Chris' role. Same thing with "The Hands" from that record too. The main riff is Wilton. The rest was Slater.
That's where Wilton's strength lies. But Tate controls QR now. And if he can get Kelly Gray and Randy Gane to hand him songs, instead of having to have someone else work with Michael's riff ideas, that's what he's going to do.
I feel bad for Wilton. Yeah, he should have become more vested in becoming a total songwriter. But on the other hand, his ideas get ignored, and he's a vital element of what made QR cool.
Yeah, that was the discussion I was reading. Entertaining stuff.
The Gray/Gane approach isn't working so I'd take a Wilton/Slater attempt every time. MCII is the only post DeGarmo album I ever listen to. And I worshipped this band from hearing THOTF on Tommy Vance's Friday Rock Show on Radio 1 in the UK.
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I just read through my lyrics booklet to "The Warning". They used to write amazing lyrics :(
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Personally I really like the lyrics to American Soldier. I bought the album because it was pretty cheap, and I read the lyrics before listening, which is why I was REALLY surprised.
However, Dedicated to Chaos... ugh... well, it's _even worse_ than what I would expect from an album with song titles "Wot We Do" and "Luvnu"...
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"Wot We Do" is not only the worst QR song ever, without question, it's one of the worst songs I've ever heard- period. I now just pretend that that song and DTC never existed.
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Awful isn't a word I'd use to describe Mindcrime ll. Even if it's mostly Tate and Slater, at least it sounds like QR, unlike DTC which sounds nothing like QR apart from one song and can be truly classified as awful.
Yeah, I pretty much agree. It has some definite problems and missed opportunities, and has a few "awful" moments. In terms of just being "an album of songs," it isn't "awful" at all because there are definitely some very good songs. The problem is, it is a concept album, and those awful moments drag down the entire story, which taints the album as a whole.
Personally, I feel the album is very strong up through Re-Arrange You. Is it Mindcrime awsome? Perhaps not, but it is still plenty solid. But things start to go downhill with The Chase, unfortunately. The song itself is a good idea that suffers because of (1) poor execution (mainly because it just becomes so melodramatic that it begins to alienate a lot of listeners) and (2) carries the stigma of the unfortunately stupid production during the tour that simply cannot be erased from the memory banks once it is seen (which, I suppose, goes back to the melodrama thing). Murderer? picks things back up again and gives the listener some hope. But by this point, an album that was pretty solid up to this point just starts to go all over the place in terms of quality, and a lot of the problem is the shift in focus to the love story and the issue of Mary as Nikki's conscience. To me and many other fans, this idea just doesn't work. Could it have? I suppose. But, again, melodrama and poor execution ruin it. I mean, it's kinda cool that we don't really know how much of the Mary/Nikki interaction at this point is real, imaginary, or something in between. But it just goes over the top and doesn't culminate in anything satisfying, as far as I'm concerned.
There are lots of things I would want to fix if, hypothetically, I were in charge and could take this back into the studio to rework before releasing it. But pretty much anything I would "fix" would have the consequence of taking the story in a different direction. Which, as a tangent, forces me to at least give Geoff/Slater a slight nod for creating a story where all the pieces, regardless of whether they were executed well or poorly, actually do move the story along and contribute something to the story. Listeners can debate all they want about whether any particular piece is a worthwhile contribution, but that's a separate issue.
Anyhow, back on track, I guess the simplest solution for me is just to eliminate the last track. Get rid of All The Promises, and you have the story ending with Fear City Slide, and not really knowing how Nikki died and what it all meant, which is a good thing. I remember the speculation when the album was new about whether Nikki simply OD'd, whether the explosion sound toward the end of FSS meant he blew up XCorp (or some bigger target), or something else. And that was pretty cool. The ambiguity felt nicely in sync with the themes and intentional ambiguities in the original Mindcrime. But then you have All The Promises, which kinda just makes you throw up your hands and say, "who cares?" Eliminate that song and just put in some sort of outro that maybe musically links the album back to Anarchy X or the end of Mindcrime, and call it a day. Maybe something like this: the original ends with Nikki in the hospital. You have that ominous symphonic fade in that cuts off when Nikki repeats the "I remember now." Maybe the same or similar fade-in, and you hear faint beeps from an EKG machine, and then a flatline tone as the symphonic chord either fades back out or cuts off. Nice, simple, chilling, vague ending that ties up the album nicely without monkeying with it too much. Something like this one simple change would easily bump the album up a notch or two. Problem is, Geoff had his vision, and that was that, even if it ended up dragging the album down. Someone needed to step up and tell him it wasn't a good idea. Problem was, the only people with him for most of the writing, Slater and Stone, weren't in a position to do that. And the result is an album that could have been pretty good, but ultimately fails because a few dumb ideas resulted in poor execution that dragged the album as a whole down with it. That's my take.
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Wow. Good ideas, bosk. I enjoyed reading that. I would have liked to see that ending to OM2.
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SNIP
I see your point about the ending of MCII, but at the same time, All the Promises was actually one of the better musical bits from the album. The Andrew Lloyd Webber style vocals were ultra-cheesy, but the two guitar parts sounded great together. Live, which is the only way that the silly thing is even bearable, it was easily the highlight of the second set.
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SNIP
I see your point about the ending of MCII, but at the same time, All the Promises was actually one of the better musical bits from the album. The Andrew Lloyd Webber style vocals were ultra-cheesy, but the two guitar parts sounded great together. Live, which is the only way that the silly thing is even bearable, it was easily the highlight of the second set.
Yeah, I always thought ATP was a decent enough song, and never really had any problems with it, but it definitely was not strong enough to close out the album. If it had lead into big finale, similar to Eyes of a Stranger, then it could have worked, but the song on it's own just ends weak and it leaves you with this feeling that there should have been more.
For the record, I actually think MCII, taken as a stand alone album, rather then a sequel, was a pretty decent album. Despite the fact that the actual band wrote very little of it, and the whole idea of a Mindcrime II being a blatant money-grab, it actually seemed to be a genuine effort to return to something that vaguely resembled that classic Queensryche sound, not just musically, but thematically as well. It is actually my favourite of the post-DeGarmo albums (which isn't really saying much, but bear with me here). Sadly, the album was brought down by the fact that it was a literal sequel to OM rather then simply a thematic one, a musically inconsistent second half, and a lackluster ending.
Taken for what it is, I feel it is the closest thing to a solid album Queensryche has made since Promised Land, but unfortunately, it is damaged by some pretty severe structural flaws as well as the fact that it is a shameless attempt at trying to relive the past. Because of all that, it ultimately reinforces the belief that Queensryche really is beyond recovering their legacy and reputations and a world class act, rather then dispelling it, which is clearly what they were trying to do by making a sequel to their magnum opus. The album failed at it's primary reason for existing, and the end result is just another chapter in the long, painful decline of this once magnificent band.
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Guys, don't let an actual great Queensryche album lose in this poll.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=27367.0
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Just noticed that they're playing down here tonight. In a 1,625 seat venue, they're currently offering 4-packs for $27 (individuals are $35). It would appear that they're really trying to put bodies into the place. Wouldn't surprise me if one could show up and get in for free.
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Promoters are often known to give out free tickets just to put bodies in there. Tour is not selling well. A couple of the usual places were filled, but hell, they couldn't even sell out Irving Plaza in New York. I mean come on.
And they've hugely downgraded in San Francisco, playing the Regency Ballroom (the first time they played here, it was the Cabaret debacle, and was only half full, if I recall correctly. It was just a few years ago they were at the Warfield Theater.
Apparently Geoff is singing "better," but he still cuts all the notes and can't sing high consistently. And he looks like a melodramatic fool on stage.
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If I knew I'd be able to get in uber-cheap (meaning free, in this case), I'd pop down for the second half of their set. The setlist is actually pretty good. That, and of course a strong sense of morbid curiosity.
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Don't go for the second half. That's pretty much the lame half. The first half, except for the ridiculous opener of "Get Suckin'" (Started) is pretty bad ass. Nothing eye-popping, but goo heavy and dramatic opening run of tunes except for the first one.
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Aside from Damaged and IDBiL, there's nothing there that interests me. On the other hand, NM156, Screaming, Lady Wore Black, Walk/Shadows and Right Side is a very nice 5 song stretch. To each their own, I suppose.
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I thought the opening run of the set had all those songs, plus A Dead Man's Words and At 30,000 Ft. from American Soldier?
The second half of the set had stuff like Lucidity, Around the World (blech), and to be honest, other than the standard three-song encore of Empire, JCW and Eyes, I don't remember the rest.
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So out of the blue today, I listened to Operation Mindcrime. It had been quite a while, but man I forgot how incredible it was. It got me so pumped up, I was having a blast. I had really forgotten how much I love this band.
and I really wish that they would do more Rage for Order shows.
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I'd be glad not to hear Geoff Tate butcher the vocals.
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We shall enjoy their past greatness. We shall mourn our loss of that greatness too.
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Awful isn't a word I'd use to describe Mindcrime ll. Even if it's mostly Tate and Slater, at least it sounds like QR, unlike DTC which sounds nothing like QR apart from one song and can be truly classified as awful.
Yeah, I pretty much agree. It has some definite problems and missed opportunities, and has a few "awful" moments. In terms of just being "an album of songs," it isn't "awful" at all because there are definitely some very good songs. The problem is, it is a concept album, and those awful moments drag down the entire story, which taints the album as a whole.
Personally, I feel the album is very strong up through Re-Arrange You. Is it Mindcrime awsome? Perhaps not, but it is still plenty solid. But things start to go downhill with The Chase, unfortunately. The song itself is a good idea that suffers because of (1) poor execution (mainly because it just becomes so melodramatic that it begins to alienate a lot of listeners) and (2) carries the stigma of the unfortunately stupid production during the tour that simply cannot be erased from the memory banks once it is seen (which, I suppose, goes back to the melodrama thing). Murderer? picks things back up again and gives the listener some hope. But by this point, an album that was pretty solid up to this point just starts to go all over the place in terms of quality, and a lot of the problem is the shift in focus to the love story and the issue of Mary as Nikki's conscience. To me and many other fans, this idea just doesn't work. Could it have? I suppose. But, again, melodrama and poor execution ruin it. I mean, it's kinda cool that we don't really know how much of the Mary/Nikki interaction at this point is real, imaginary, or something in between. But it just goes over the top and doesn't culminate in anything satisfying, as far as I'm concerned.
There are lots of things I would want to fix if, hypothetically, I were in charge and could take this back into the studio to rework before releasing it. But pretty much anything I would "fix" would have the consequence of taking the story in a different direction. Which, as a tangent, forces me to at least give Geoff/Slater a slight nod for creating a story where all the pieces, regardless of whether they were executed well or poorly, actually do move the story along and contribute something to the story. Listeners can debate all they want about whether any particular piece is a worthwhile contribution, but that's a separate issue.
Anyhow, back on track, I guess the simplest solution for me is just to eliminate the last track. Get rid of All The Promises, and you have the story ending with Fear City Slide, and not really knowing how Nikki died and what it all meant, which is a good thing. I remember the speculation when the album was new about whether Nikki simply OD'd, whether the explosion sound toward the end of FSS meant he blew up XCorp (or some bigger target), or something else. And that was pretty cool. The ambiguity felt nicely in sync with the themes and intentional ambiguities in the original Mindcrime. But then you have All The Promises, which kinda just makes you throw up your hands and say, "who cares?" Eliminate that song and just put in some sort of outro that maybe musically links the album back to Anarchy X or the end of Mindcrime, and call it a day. Maybe something like this: the original ends with Nikki in the hospital. You have that ominous symphonic fade in that cuts off when Nikki repeats the "I remember now." Maybe the same or similar fade-in, and you hear faint beeps from an EKG machine, and then a flatline tone as the symphonic chord either fades back out or cuts off. Nice, simple, chilling, vague ending that ties up the album nicely without monkeying with it too much. Something like this one simple change would easily bump the album up a notch or two. Problem is, Geoff had his vision, and that was that, even if it ended up dragging the album down. Someone needed to step up and tell him it wasn't a good idea. Problem was, the only people with him for most of the writing, Slater and Stone, weren't in a position to do that. And the result is an album that could have been pretty good, but ultimately fails because a few dumb ideas resulted in poor execution that dragged the album as a whole down with it. That's my take.
Wow, just now noticed this. Thought this thread had stopped dead in it's tracks. Anyway, I like your ideas, especially cutting out All the Promises and replacing it with an outro of some sort. That one song alone does indeed bring the whole thing down. It just doesn't work at all.
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So I just ordered Hear in the Now Frontier.
Its the only album with Degarmo that I never bought and I'm curious. I'm gonna go into this open minded.
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You need to be very open minded for that one. Good record though.
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So I just ordered Hear in the Now Frontier.
Its the only album with Degarmo that I never bought and I'm curious. I'm gonna go into this open minded.
I don't mind it too much. It reminds me of Ty Tabor A LOT.
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HITNF is a really good album. It's no Promised Land, but still a good album. DeGarmo's track on there where he sings lead vocals, "All I Want," is especially special IMO. That particular song, now that it's been mentioned, actually
reminds me of Ty Tabor A LOT.
Never noticed that until right now. Good call WS :tup
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HINF is a good album; however, it's the first QR with a noticable drop in quality IMO. There are filler songs- this being a first for a QR disc. I listen to EP-PL all the time. All the others, including HINF, I listen to once in a blue moon.
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Been playing MC this week and man, what an awesome piece of music and drama Suite Sister Mary is. Could be my favourite piece of music ever.
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HINF I actually threw in the bin disgusted after about onen and a half lissten. What a piece of dreck, I thought it had only one 'listenable' song on it. I might be able to change my opionin if I'd listen to it all those years later, but I doubt it.
O: MC I blew my mind when it came out. I've been only recently watching some video's fromt the Livecrime video on Youtube. Man, what a great show that was.
O: MC II isn't as bad as I expected, there actually are a slew of pretty good, rocking songs on it. It's just that the name Mindcrime makes you expect so much more.
And I agree on the last song, totally misplaced. Goddamned, this band used to be so AWESOME! :facepalm:
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https://www.groupon.com/deals/gl-queensryche-ponte-verde
:rollin
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Yeah, IMO HITNF is worse than even recent Queensryche. The difference? The newer stuff is bad, but it's still fairly standard underwhelming rock. HITNF is bad, and it's out there too. I just can't get a grip on the record at all, and nor do I want to because I do not enjoy it.
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Yeah, IMO HITNF is worse than even recent Queensryche. The difference? The newer stuff is bad, but it's still fairly standard underwhelming rock. HITNF is bad, and it's out there too. I just can't get a grip on the record at all, and nor do I want to because I do not enjoy it.
I'm with you. Never liked it.
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https://www.groupon.com/deals/gl-queensryche-ponte-verde
:rollin
Wow.
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Yeah, IMO HITNF is worse than even recent Queensryche.
This post is a perfect example of why drugs are bad for you.
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Um.... I don't use drugs, but I'm pretty sure someone was on them when they were recording that album :P
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I hope you're just talking about DTC but too high to remember the title right.
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Yes, I'd enjoy listen to it more than HITNF. I don't like either at all, but at least DTC almost falls into the "so bad it's good" category. It'll, at least, bring the lols.
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I haven't subjected myself to the misery that DTC supposedly is, but perhaps HITNF feels so bad because it was such a HUGE drop in quality from PL. IMO, they peaked with O:M. Empire is fantastic, but just a titch below O:M. PL is pretty damned good, but not as good as Empire. HITNF is pretty close to a steaming pile of doo (relatively speaking). Perhaps we've just come to accept this mediocrity (and from what I understand, that's a very complimentary way of describing DTC) from QR at this point.
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...but I'm pretty sure someone was on them when they were recording that album :P
Well, yes, but that's beside the point.
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I haven't subjected myself to the misery that DTC supposedly is, but perhaps HITNF feels so bad because it was such a HUGE drop in quality from PL. IMO, they peaked with O:M. Empire is fantastic, but just a titch below O:M. PL is pretty damned good, but not as good as Empire. HITNF is pretty close to a steaming pile of doo (relatively speaking). Perhaps we've just come to accept this mediocrity (and from what I understand, that's a very complimentary way of describing DTC) from QR at this point.
Actually, I agree with this now that I think about it. I used a similar argument when dredg's latest album came out.
Dropping from the top of a 100 story building (here, PL) onto the roof of a 30 story one (HITNF) hurts alot and is definitely fatal. Falling off the roof of a one-story house (American Soldier) onto the ground (DTC) doesn't hurt nearly as bad by comparison.
So, maybe HITNF is better, but damn does having that album from the original line-up hurt more.
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What does spOOL mean? It's one of their best songs, but I have no idea, what the title or lyrics are telling.
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Yeah, IMO HITNF is worse than even recent Queensryche. The difference? The newer stuff is bad, but it's still fairly standard underwhelming rock. HITNF is bad, and it's out there too. I just can't get a grip on the record at all, and nor do I want to because I do not enjoy it.
No.....just no.
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We shall enjoy their past greatness. We shall mourn our loss of that greatness too.
Amen.
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I never got the hate for HITNF. I like the album.
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HITNF is not a great ALBUM. It has some real good songs, IMO. From Rage through PL, QR made great albums, and then sorta lost the plot.
On one hand, I commend Chris for steering the band more back toward a mainstream sound with HITNF, but by doing so, he was a couple years too late, and stripped the band of the depth that made them interesting to listen to. Some songs, like spOOL, maintain it, but for the most part, the stripped down approach doesn't work for a band like Queensryche...at least not an album's worth of material.
That said, one of the most underappreciated aspects of HITNF is the guitar playing. Chris and Michael are doing some really cool stuff that is for the most part, understated to highlight the groove of each of the songs. The solo in "You" is incredible, so is the one in "Hero."
Overall, Hear sits at the bottom in terms of original lineup work (which I consider to be EP-HITNF and then the half of Tribe that the entire band recorded...Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine, Art of Life, Justified -- meant for Tribe, but finished afterward). But it does have some good tunes on it.
The filler really drags it down, however.
The current "Queensryche" is really Tateryche, and as such, it's just a wholly different animal with really not much writing being used from the original members. Q2k, Mindcrime II, American Soldier and Dedicated to Chaos have some moments (very, VERY few on the latter), but they really just don't sound like "Queensryche" because of the different writers that are composing the songs. Some are good, but not the same organic vibe because of the different majority writers.
Edit -- for those that don't know, Q2k was credited as "the band," but the majority songwriter was Kelly Gray. Scott, Michael and Ed had some music writing moments on it, but for the most part, it was Gray being Degarmo. The entire band recorded the record.
Mindcrime II was mostly Tate/Slater. Stone was given credit by Slater (part of Slater's publishing) because Slater felt since Stone was in the room with him day in and day out working on it, he deserved it. Wilton's credits (three) are for the basic riff in the song (Hands, Murderer) and for some of the arrangement (Hostage, which Eddie wrote the riff).
As for performance, anyone with an ear can tell that Stone did a lot of the guitars on the record. Michael is on Hostage, he's on I'm American, and he's on Murderer and The Hands, but even in some of the trade-off solos, you can tell it's Stone doing both parts. I am not saying I know that for 100 percent, but if you listen, you can hear it. Scott's drums also sound very weird, like they were worked on in the studio later. He plays different parts on Mindcrime at the Moore (the live release) so one has to wonder if he is on a lot of the record. As for bass, Slater is a bass player, and while I hear Eddie in there, I know for sure I hear Slater playing bass in a few songs.
On American Soldier, it was Slater/Gray/Tate on the entire thing, writing-wise (or Slater/Tate or Gray/Tate), except for a couple songs that were leftover tracks from Slave to the System, Rockenfield's other band with Gray and Brother Cane frontman Damon Johnson.
While the band recorded all of American Soldier, and Wilton wrote the solos, the songs themselves were not composed by Queensryche. From what we know, the songs were all PERFORMED by Wilton/Rockenfield/Jackson, with some bits by Gray and others.
On Dedicated to Chaos, Wilton was not involved in any writing (at least he got no credit), and not much of the playing it sounds like to these ears. Eddie and Scott were more involved in the writing, but the majority of the songs were written by Jason Slater, Kelly Gray, and Randy Gane (keyboardist of MYTH, Tate's band before QR who played off stage on the Rage tour for the band). Tate wrote the lyrics.
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Thanks, that explains a lot. I think. ;D
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I love HiTNF, but then I didn't think much of Promised Land when it was first released so HiTNF was a step up for me. These days I'd rate those two albums about the same though.
However, the writing is much more restrained and less dramatic (for want of a better word) than earlier material and only Sp00l really sounds like typical QR material up to that point - I do wonder how well received HiTNF would have been had it been a DeGarmo solo record, which it practically was anyway. I don't think it'd engender quite the same hyperbole from the detractors at least.
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I never got the hate for HITNF. I like the album.
Me too. It would be 8,5/10, if they've dropped All I Want, Anytime/Anywhere and Miles Away.
But on the other side of the coin there are spOOL, Reach, Some People Fly, Sign of the Times, Saved and Cuckoo's Nest.
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I agree with the earlier sentiment that HITNF seems like genius now that it can be compared with the rest of the post PL catalog. But coming on the heels of one of their finest CD's just left a bitter taste at first.
I really like Some People Fly, sp00l, Cuckoo's Nest, and You. Then there's some meh songs and some crap songs. I guess I hated the fact that it felt like a grunge album to me (Chris DeGarmo started spending alot of time with Jerry Cantrell about this time, and even did a grunge project with him immediately after leaving QR). And there's nothing wrong with grunge per se....but I'm against trend setting bands throwing in the towel on cutting their own path in order to start following someone else's....and about 6 years too late.
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I would put "All I Want" neck and neck with "Wot We Do" as my most disliked QR song ever. I know some people enjoy All I Want, and thats great, but I hate it.
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All I Want is one of the better tracks for me, but it was the beginning of the end of my affair with QR. It sounded like QR, but it was lifeless and lacklustre.
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I would put "All I Want" neck and neck with "Wot We Do" as my most disliked QR song ever. I know some people enjoy All I Want, and thats great, but I hate it.
Never really cared for All I Want, but it's definitely better than Wot We Do. That is by far the worst song in Ryche's discography.
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I love Anytime/Anywhere and Hit The Black.
I liked what they tries to do with HITNF, but the songs just weren't good enough. I loved the band pic on the sleeve.
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HINF was the first QR disc to have filler songs IMO, not sure what caused the change from this band making discs that were great/perfect from beginning to end, to this. There wasn't a change in personal at this point in time, so you can't blame that. I still think HINF is a good rock disc; always thought that if it was condensed down to maybe 10 songs, I would appreiciate it/like it more. They were probably trying to fit in with the musical landscape at the time; which is a shame because this took away almost the mystique of what QR was all about. Thank goodness that they didn't make HINF the followup to Empire because we would have missed out on the epic amaizng PL.
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To the point that HITNF was essentially a Degarmo solo record -- I fully disagree. He set the basic direction, but he did so on Empire too, and Empire wouldn't be considered a Degarmo solo record. PL was entirely set to the vibe of what Geoff Tate was going through at the time, but we wouldn't call that a Tate solo record... etc., etc.
What HITNF was, was Chris trying to recapture the mainstream appeal the band had with Empire, seven years later. And had EMI not closed its doors, it might have very well worked. Sign of the Times and You received heavy airplay and as soon as EMI went belly-up, the promotion stopped the band dead in its tracks. The next two planned singles after that were The Voice Inside and spOOL. Based on those four songs, that record had the potential for some great success.
And Tate was very much on-board. He wrote lyrics, melodies, etc. Like always, the band trusted Chris with his vision of what HITNF should be. A record where they stopped worrying about every little detail, and just put songs together in their basic arrangement, be a little more raw, and get it out there.
It backfired, IMO, because it stripped the band of one of its most distinct qualities (production and depth of soundscape), and because the record company flopped.
To be honest, those four singles are high points on the record for me. Combined with Hit the Black and Hero, probably my top songs on the record. So I thought the record had strength and some legs. But the money dried up because of the label going under and that was that. The promotion stopped.
As a complete ALBUM, I don't think HITNF works. But I think the record is probably seven or eight songs deep of quality tracks. It just has WAY too much filler.
And if you listen to the songs for Tribe that Degarmo played on...Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, Art of Life, Doin' Fine and Justified, you can see that production value had returned, as did some heavier riffing. It's a natural progression up from HITNF, but containing some stylistic similarities, because that's where Chris was at the time, as a songwriter.
I get angry every time I think about what has happened since Chris left. Such a rich catalog of original lineup material, and since then, it just doesn't sound like the same band, because, well, it isn't, the main guy is gone, and so is his artistic evolution, which always incorporated the changing tastes and styles of the other guys.
Now we have pompus, melodramatic crap pop or records made by other guys to sound like Queensryche's past. Such a bummer.
But the original lineup material has withstood the test of time. Great, great music. Stuff like PL, HITNF and the original lineup Tribe tracks may not be to everyone's liking, but it was a natural evolution for where the band and Chris as the major music writer, was going. It was quite a cool ride.
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I get angry every time I think about what has happened since Chris left. Such a rich catalog of original lineup material, and since then, it just doesn't sound like the same band, because, well, it isn't, the main guy is gone, and so is his artistic evolution, which always incorporated the changing tastes and styles of the other guys.
Now we have pompus, melodramatic crap pop or records made by other guys to sound like Queensryche's past. Such a bummer.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I was thinking exactly this over the past week.
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Nope, still sucks to me. :tdwn
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It's funny, I got into Queensryche because I opened a cabinet in our house one day and Promised Land literally fell out and hit me in the head. I listened to it out of curiousity and loved it.
I asked my parents which one of them bought it, and neither remembered even liking the band. (Turned out later that my mom had bought it back in the 90s thinking Silent Lucidity was on it, as she loves that song, but put it away when she found out it was the wrong album.)
Only great album I've ever gotten for free. Fun times.
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It is still unbelievable, QR's descent into the musical abyss. I can't think of any other band that was that good that became so bad, seemingly overnight.
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Since we're on a bit of a nostalgia trip, I was watching this the other day and I literally felt pain in my heart that this is lost forever. The music, the performance, the atmosphere... what happened to these guys and how is beyond me.
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Yeah, it's really depressing. As we all know, certain music resonates with people and they are more vested in it than others. I am sure Queensryche was like that for a lot of people, me included. Hell, had it not been for their music, I would have never met my wife or some of my closest friends from the last 20 years.
So when this happens, it just. plain. sucks.
But the way I've kinda gone about it is, I sorta tune out everything that isn't the original lineup. I mean, I pay attention, but I sorta sequester it away as "Tateryche" since nobody in th eband reall ywrites anything and Tate calls the shots now, and I can still enjoy the original lineup material like I used to.
It's not easy though, watching the band name now be laughed at all the time.
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Yeah, it's really depressing. As we all know, certain music resonates with people and they are more vested in it than others. I am sure Queensryche was like that for a lot of people, me included. Hell, had it not been for their music, I would have never met my wife or some of my closest friends from the last 20 years.
So when this happens, it just. plain. sucks.
But the way I've kinda gone about it is, I sorta tune out everything that isn't the original lineup. I mean, I pay attention, but I sorta sequester it away as "Tateryche" since nobody in th eband reall ywrites anything and Tate calls the shots now, and I can still enjoy the original lineup material like I used to.
It's not easy though, watching the band name now be laughed at all the time.
Same for me. I used to feel the same way about QR as I do about DT now (man did they come along at the right time!). There isn't another band I've loved that have fallen so far. Rush are close- haven't remotely liked anything since Counterparts- but I don't feel the same bitterness for some reason.
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I listen to the EP to Promised Land on a regular basis and hold those discs as the true QR. The other discs I will just pick and chose what songs to listen to because listening to the entire disc is somewhat of a chore.
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It's weird with QR and a lot of bands (like DT) that I am a huge fan of. I know the catalog so well and played it so much, I don't necessarily listen to it all the time any more. The original lineup material is in regular rotation, but I don't listen to those albums once a week (or a day) like I used to. :)
Usually what will spur me to put it on, is when I hear something on XM Radio or something, or come across a cool QR vid on YouTube. Then I'll load up an album to listen to. Typically, it'll be the original lineup tracks from Tribe (I have it separated on my iPod), Mindcrime, Empire, PL, or the combined Building Empires live material that came on the re-released versions of Empire and Mindcrime (I have it segued as an entire live show).
I still listen to the EP, The Warning (in the right track order), Rage and HITNF too, but not AS regularly.
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The albums that I listen to most ofter are:
1. Warning
2. Rage For Order
3. Promised Land
As far as Mindcrime One is concerned, its kind of like a real fine wine, which I only take out on special occasions, but I feel like its more satisfying that way. The other 3 albums I can just put on anytime and really enjoy them.
I definitely need to break out Empire though. Its been like a year since my last listen.
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Chris DeGarmo just chatted with fans on ESPN.com. Mostly about music and flying. Gives some good answers. Politically correct, but insightful. Particularly about QR's current happenings and whether he'd return to the band:
https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=2517.msg41424#msg41424
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Found an apparent first pressing vinyl of Queensryche's EP used for $8. Any idea how much it's worth? It was in great condition too.
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Probably not a whole heck of a lot. I would check Ebay for similar items.
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Tate is hard at work to devalue any Ryche items, i guess if you can make 2$ off of it it's still a bargain! xD
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Found an apparent first pressing vinyl of Queensryche's EP used for $8. Any idea how much it's worth? It was in great condition too.
Depends.
Is it the reissue on EMI or is it from the independent label (206 Records?)
The first pressing is worth a lot more. Not sure how much more.
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I could be completely mistaken, but wasn't the 206 release cassette only?
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I could be completely mistaken, but wasn't the 206 release cassette only?
No. I've seen the vinyl version...but not in years. I kinda thought it might be worth quite a bit of money *IF* it was in pristine condition, but maybe I'm just deluding myself.
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Okay. I have only ever seen it referred to as a "tape," but that could just be a generic reference to the fact that that was the most common format, or that that was the format in which it was recorded, so I will defer to you if you know you've seen it in vinyl as well.
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I called back the place and the guy said all he could find relating to the label was the "all songs copyright EMI publishing" or whatever.
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I just found this on Ebay.
If nothing else, I thought it would give you an idea of a typical asking price on Ebay...(don't know if he's actually getting what he's asking...but..)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Queensryche-First-EP-12-Inch-206-Records-Ex-Vg-R-101-LP-/260926700239?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item3cc0717acf#ht_3077wt_1163
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American Solider (sans the first track) gets a LOT of listening time from me. I love that album and am surprised to hear that it wasn't primarily composed by the band. I wonder who composed it? It's the most solid album they have done since Promised Land and it's had a while to sink in. It's aged well. In a lot of ways it diminished OMII for me.
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Jason Slater largely composed it with input from Geoff. If not for the subpar vocals, it would be a VERY strong album. Other than the vocals, there are a few things I think should have been done differently, but those are fairly minor. For instance, I think the album tapers off toward the end because you have back to back ballads, and The Voice isn't quite as big and bombastic as it should have been. As it is, I also give it a fair amount of listening time.
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The duet with his daughter brought a tear to my eye when I first heard it- in a good way, not a Dedicated To chaos way! I really felt it, got the message it was meant to portray, and that's not something that happens to me often. The only other piece of music that did this to me was Satch's live version of Crying on the Extremist tour.
Not struck on it as a QR album though.
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The duet with his daughter brought a tear to my eye when I first heard it- in a good way, not a Dedicated To chaos way! I really felt it, got the message it was meant to portray, and that's not something that happens to me often.
I agree. However, although I understand what they were going for, they could have and should have gotten a better child vocalist. After the initial novelty wore off, rather than having the powerful emotional impact the song should have, I am simply distracted by how bad Emily's (and Geoff's, for that matter) vocals are.
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The duet with his daughter brought a tear to my eye when I first heard it- in a good way, not a Dedicated To chaos way! I really felt it, got the message it was meant to portray, and that's not something that happens to me often.
I agree. However, although I understand what they were going for, they could have and should have gotten a better child vocalist. After the initial novelty wore off, rather than having the powerful emotional impact the song should have, I am simply distracted by how bad Emily's (and Geoff's, for that matter) vocals are.
i've not listened to it enough for that to happen I guess, and I found the fact that Emily's voice wasn't "professional" made the impact more real. And Geoff has screwed his voice, and for that I lost alot of respect for him.
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Eh, that song with his daughter was horrible. It was completely contrived. It wasn't believable at all to me. Particularly seeing them do it live.
i also think a child singer (who is a real singer) should have sang the part. Honestly, the contrived part of that tune was that tate was trying to get Silent Lucidity pt. 2 to my ears.
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Since we're on a bit of a nostalgia trip, I was watching this the other day and I literally felt pain in my heart that this is lost forever. The music, the performance, the atmosphere... what happened to these guys and how is beyond me.
Please do not post song links from illegitimate sources.
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I don't even remember what was posted.
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I don't even remember what was posted.
That's alright, it was originally missed but recently reported, just know in the future to link from official band and labels.
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np. Promised Land.
Awesome! Great!
How come album containing this great song (and a few others) have sold over million copies? And this is prog rock. Differs so much of what's popular these days.
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np. Promised Land.
Awesome! Great!
How come album containing this great song (and a few others) have sold over million copies? And this is prog rock. Differs so much of what's popular these days.
??? ???
If you are asking how an album like this sold over a million copies (your wording is rather confusing), I think it probably did well sales-wise because of Empire, which was hugely popular and had a handful of very successful mainstream rock hits. Promised Land is all kinds of awesome, but while loved by the hardcore fanbase, it didn't connect with the casual fan nearly as well as the two previous albums. I probably put myself in the middle of those two categories; I was never a major hardcore fan, but I was way more than a casual fan.
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Yes, Empire was popular, but it is much easier album. But the sales of Promised Land (and DT charting #1 twice in Finland) keeps me having some trust for good music occasionally hitting the mainstream.
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Rising West discussion has been moved to this thread: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=32528.0
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I used the band index thread to find the QR thread, and this is the one that came up. Seems old, but I couldn't find the newer thread using the search function for some reason. Anyway, Ray Alder from Fates Warning recently commented on QR's Brazil Incident:
Link: https://www.bravewords.com/news/211107
BraveWords: Before, you mentioned the tour Fates Warning did with Queensr˙che and Dream Theater. Could you see trouble brewing between Geoff Tate and the other members of Queensr˙che?
Ray Alder: "I didn't really see it coming; we played with them in Sao Paulo, when the whole thing went down. It was crazy, it was really insane. I mean, literally, there was security on stage and the promoters were freaking out. And everything went on that night and then the band left. I was hanging out with Geoff later, and we went to a bar. It was just the funniest thing - Geoff and I sat there…and talked about scotch. We didn't talk about what the hell just happened! It was the weirdest thing, I don't know why it came up. But no, I did not see that coming. But I think Queensr˙che is Queensr˙che - it's not Geoff Tate. Unfortunately, it just didn't work out, and they went their own ways. I like the new Queensr˙che album."
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFYD3JmKk6M&feature=player_embedded
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFYD3JmKk6M&feature=player_embedded
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
lol, what in the world am I watching happen>
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It's an absolute fucking disgrace. :facepalm:
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:trainwreck:
There's 3 minutes of my life I won't get back.
Was that Billy Gibbons on rhythm guitar?
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:facepalm:
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:trainwreck:
There's 3 minutes of my life I won't get back.
Was that Billy Gibbons on rhythm guitar?
Please, that's an insult to Billy Gibbons! :lol
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFYD3JmKk6M&feature=player_embedded
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
This is so hilariously bad. :lol Geoff Tate's titanic is sinking fast!
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:|
So, uh... court case concludes next month, eh? From what I recall?
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Court case got pushed back to January. This performance is just tripe.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFYD3JmKk6M&feature=player_embedded
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Wow. It is still unbelievable what an awful singer Tate has allowed himself to become. And he is clearly totally clueless about that fact.
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:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
That performance is horrendous.
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Court case got pushed back to January. This performance is just tripe.
Nooooooooo! D:
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I still think myself, Jammindude, LaichDT, and any other Seattle members should have a meetup at the courthouse when this case finally happens.
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It's time like these that I'm grateful James is very mindful of his voice, takes care of it, and practices/exercises regularly.
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It's time like these that I'm grateful James is very mindful of his voice, takes care of it, and practices/exercises regularly.
I couldn't agree more! :tup
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I seriously can't get over the backing vocals. Check I Don't Believe in Love if you haven't already.
Also, Glen Drover is still a smart man. But if he were in teh band, he would have made this band somewhat listenable, and would have at least played the songs correctly.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFYD3JmKk6M&feature=player_embedded
Oh good grief. You'd think the Queensryche Cabaret was the lowest moment in their career, but seeing this amateur hour lot masquerading as Queensryche is possibly worse.
Tate sounds in pain any time he goes past middle-C and has forgotten how to sing softly without producing the sound entirely from his nasal cavaty. The keyboard player is just cheerleading (that intro to Best I Can - just lol), the second guitarist actually conspires to make Kelly Gray's hamfisted guitar playing not seem all that bad, Rudy Sarzo seems to be trapped in 1985 and manages to make a mess of the intro to Jet City Woman, the backing vocals downright hurt (and what's with the inability to pronounce "I" in the chorus of Lucidity???!?) and there's so many fuck-ups you'd have to assume they've never played together before.
Abysmal.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFYD3JmKk6M&feature=player_embedded
Oh good grief. You'd think the Queensryche Cabaret was the lowest moment in their career, but seeing this amateur hour lot masquerading as Queensryche is possibly worse.
Tate sounds in pain any time he goes past middle-C and has forgotten how to sing softly without producing the sound entirely from his nasal cavaty. The keyboard player is just cheerleading (that intro to Best I Can - just lol), the second guitarist actually conspires to make Kelly Gray's hamfisted guitar playing not seem all that bad, Rudy Sarzo seems to be trapped in 1985 and manages to make a mess of the intro to Jet City Woman, the backing vocals downright hurt (and what's with the inability to pronounce "I" in the chorus of Lucidity???!?) and there's so many fuck-ups you'd have to assume they've never played together before.
Abysmal.
The most shocking part of everything you mention is that it reveals you watched/listened to more than 3 minutes of this.
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I still think myself, Jammindude, LaichDT, and any other Seattle members should have a meetup at the courthouse when this case finally happens.
It might be interesting. I'm sure it would be packed to the gills. Depending on the day and how early I could get there....
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Aren't these guys fairly reputable musicians? If I was asked to be in a band that is ripping off another bands name I would say no. It's not like Tate was wronged in anyway, he was no longer meeting the rest of the bands standards and was let go. Now he's intentionally trying to cause shit by using the same name. Also I think keeping the name Queensryche is the only way he can cling to any sort of fame.
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Aren't these guys fairly reputable musicians? If I was asked to be in a band that is ripping off another bands name I would say no. It's not like Tate was wronged in anyway, he was no longer meeting the rest of the bands standards and was let go. Now he's intentionally trying to cause shit by using the same name. Also I think keeping the name Queensryche is the only way he can cling to any sort of fame.
Exactly.
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I seriously can't get over the backing vocals. Check I Don't Believe in Love if you haven't already.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
That seriously might be the worst thing I've ever heard.
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I seriously can't get over the backing vocals. Check I Don't Believe in Love if you haven't already.
Time stamp please. I'm not going to subject myself to listening this. I'll do it for the lol's though.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bFYD3JmKk6M#t=1886
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Man, the Geoff Tate band sounds like a high school band with one of the member's mid-life crises dad on vocals.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bFYD3JmKk6M#t=1886
Oh gawd. More like they don't believe in talent/practicing. They'd be better off having The Hands of Praise Deaf Choir doing background vocals.
"My only hope is one day I'll forget".
I feel the same.
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The most shocking part of everything you mention is that it reveals you watched/listened to more than 3 minutes of this.
One part rubbernecking, one part Schadenfreude...
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For those who subjected themselves to that and need to cleanse your pallet, here are some clips of the real Queensryche in Europe over the last couple of weeks:
Queen Of The Reich (Ichendorf/Bergheim - Burghaus Quadrath - Oct. 26th 2013): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM170tBZ1BM
Roads To Madness (Ichendorf/Bergheim - Burghaus Quadrath - Oct. 26th 2013): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aRc4umHH-o
The Warning (Oct. 27, 2013 - Ludwigsburg, Germany): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edrwqx9lAjo
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Bosk, as I understand you have been a fan from very early on. Has Geoff's voice change been much of a "painful" sticking point for you? Or has the transition over the years made it bearable?
Myself for example, I love the early stuff. More specifically The Warning album. However, I was made aware of QR maybe less than 10 years ago, and first heard the newer stuff shortly after the old stuff. So the contrast all at once was more noticeable.
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Bosk, as I understand you have been a fan from very early on. Has Geoff's voice change been much of a "painful" sticking point for you? Or has the transition over the years made it bearable?
I came onboard during the Mindcrime cycle, which felt a little late at the time, but, yeah, I guess it does feel "very early on" in hindsight. :lol For me, it's a bit of both. His voice actually started to deteriorate as early as Promised Land. But during the period from Promised Land through probably Tribe, it was more gradual and less noticeable--at least on the studio albums. Personally, I think Geoff was fine in the studio. And I didn't see the band live much during that period. He was still pretty good when I saw them on the Promised Land tour, decent but a bit hit-and-miss here and there at the Live Evolution shows, and acceptable for the material they played on the Queensryche/DT tour (Tribe). So his decline didn't bother me at first.
After Tribe, his studio vocals really started sounding bad, and the live shows were even more spotty. That's when it did bother me. He sounded OK on most of Mindcrime II, and despite some strong tracks, that album had enough other problems that overshadowed Geoff's singing issues. But the covers album was just embarassing. And American Soldier was very disappointing to me. The music and concept were terrific, but Geoff is by far the weakest link and ruins an otherwise stellar album. That, to me, was the major turning point. I had notice the problems beforehand, but with those two releases, I twice found myself saying things like, "What is wrong with the world when Geoff Tate's singing is the weakest link on an album?"
So, yeah, it eventually did become a major sticking point for me. That, combined with his awful personality, combined with bad, BAD management and creative decisions, combined with the rest of the band disconnecting had me completely turned off for a good 5 years or so before they fired him and brought Todd onboard. From 1990 to 1999, they were my favorite band. For a little stretch of time fairly recently, I wouldn't even buy their albums (the completist in me had to get Dedicated To Chaos, but I refused to buy it new and give any money to the Tates, so I waited over a year until I found a used copy). Now, they're back among my favorites. I don't see them ever retaking the top spot (or even the top 3), but they're back in the upper echelon as far as I'm concerned.
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For those who subjected themselves to that and need to cleanse your pallet, here are some clips of the real Queensryche in Europe over the last couple of weeks:
Queen Of The Reich (Ichendorf/Bergheim - Burghaus Quadrath - Oct. 26th 2013): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM170tBZ1BM
Roads To Madness (Ichendorf/Bergheim - Burghaus Quadrath - Oct. 26th 2013): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aRc4umHH-o
The Warning (Oct. 27, 2013 - Ludwigsburg, Germany): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edrwqx9lAjo
It's like night and day. Todd has saved my once-favourite band. Tate is now beyond embarrassing.
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(that intro to Best I Can - just lol)
I'm actually revelling in the irony that the intro to a song called Best I Can sounds so utterly terrible. :rollin
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The thought process sparked by El Jonno's question to me inspired me to do a quick ranking:
1. Empire: For the longest time, Promised Land occupied my top spot. It is very close between those two albums. And some days, I would say PL is tops. But Empire is just so good and has so many great songs that stand the test of time. It gets the #1 spot for now.
2. Promised Land: Great album. Virtually flawless.
3. Mindcrime: I feel like I kind of outgrew this story quite some time ago. But I still respect this album's legacy, and there are some top-notch songs on here.
4. Queensryche (self titled): Maybe after the newness wears off some more, I'll drop this one below Rage. But it's a great return to form and, in many ways, is superior to a lot of their earlier work. It's major flaw is song-lengths and resulting album length. A few songs needed to be longer and more developed, and the album as a whole needed another couple of songs.
5. Hear In The Now Frontier: I love this album. There, I said it. Shut up.
6. Rage For Order: I love the experimentation. They really stretched out into some new directions for a metal band, and it paid off.
7. Warning: Bit of a drop-off here from the ones above it, but still a solid effort.
8. American Soldier: This would be close to cracking my top 3 if the vocals were even halfway decent.
9. Tribe: Some VERY solid songs; some clunkers. Perhaps their most inconistent album overall.
10. Mindcrime II: Without opening up the debate about whether it was a good idea to even do a sequel to Mindcrime, this was a missed opportunity. There was some terrific material to work with. But the last 1/3 of the album is a HUGE disappointment, both in terms of song quality AND concept/story.
11. Q2K: A couple of good tunes, and a lot of completely unmemorable ones. And unlike a lot of people, I don't think Howl would have redeemed the album even a little bit had it been included.
12. Take Cover: Normally, I wouldn't even list a covers album. But some of the song choices were excellent, and musically, they did some pretty cool things. But the vocals are SO bad. Just embarassing.
13. Dedicated To Chaos: I gave this a fair listen. That is all it deserved. A used copy sits in my CD collection only because I am a completist and had to have it simply by virtue of the name on the sleeve. Terrible album. There is not a single song that I ever want to hear again.
EP not ranked because it's a 4 song EP.
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I *have* been around from the beginning. :angel: ;) (I actually remember when they played "Queen of the Reich" on KZOK...I believe I owned the EP on the original 502 label on cassette...but that's long since been stolen...I bought The Warning the day it was released)
Here's my ranking...
1. Rage For Order - As much as I loved the EP, The Warning was just ok for me at first....so I wasn't chomping at the bit to get Rage. But then a friend let me borrow it on cassette. Didn't like like Walk in the Shadows AT ALL, and I thought the rest was weird. But...just like all my other favorite albums...after about 10 spins I was absolutely HOOKED. This is still one of the most amazing and important albums in the history of progressive rock. Neue Regal is my 2nd favorite all time QR track.
2. Promised Land - I pretty much consider this "Rage for Order with a budget"...the only way I can excuse Empire (which was way too commercial for me) is to tell myself that they did it to finance the album they *really* wanted to make. But given the reports I've heard of the state of the band at the time...it's becoming harder to convince myself of that. I Am I, Dis Con Ec Ted, the title track and Damaged are all absolutely amazing.
3. Operation: Mindcrime - Tracks 1-9 maybe just about the greatest run of music in their career. I never cared for Breaking the Silence, and kinda always thought Eyes of a Stranger was over-rated. I like the chorus, but the verses are too "sappy". Suite Sister Mary is the greatest QR song ever. Honorable mentions to Speak and The Mission.
4. Queensryche (The EP) - This is where it started. It may only be four tracks...but it's perfection. I'm a bit burnt out on Lady...but QotR is still amazing, and Blinded is a lost classic.
5. The Warning - I still hate the production...and Geoff's phrasings and melody choices (IMO) are really jarring and not fluent, and just overall not that great. But the songs did grow on me over time. Sick of Take Hold of the Flame, but I can see its charm. Roads to Madness and No Sanctuary are my favs...but Before the Storm/Child of the Fire have become all time classics as well. And then of course, there is the always amazing NM 156.
6. Queensryche (The Album) - This is really still climbing. Not sure it will ever be up with the classics...but at least it feels like classic QR. I'm very pleased with it, and it can flip-flop with The Warning at any given moment. I can't see anything touching the top 4 ever.
7. Empire - It's grown on me a bit over time. I really hated it when it first came out (except for the title track). But most of the songs won me over...and I reluctantly have to admit that this is a pretty good album. I still CANNOT STAND Jet City Woman and Another Rainy Night....terrible songs. But love Silent Lucidity, Della Brown, Best I Can and Anybody Listening?
8. Tribe - It's been so long since I've listened to anything past Empire on this list...so from here on out, I'm going from distant memory...and referring back to an "album discussion" series I did back at MP.com several years ago. I seem to remember that there was some pretty decent stuff on here....about half of it seemed to harken back to former glory. Other ideas didn't do so well.
9. Operation: Mindcrime II - There are some good tracks here...but as a sequel to OMC, it is an abysmal failure. Worst ending of any QR record EVER. I still really like Hands. Dio's guest voice was pretty cool.
10. Hear in the Now Frontier - HEY! QR did a grunge album!.....6 years after grunge peaked....how original. :\
11. Q2Krap - As bad as this album is...the final track (The Right Side of My Mind) may be in the all time top 5 QR songs. I consider that song to be the last dying gasp of the classic QR. How that song, which is very near perfection, could be on such a stinkburger of an album is beyond me.
I have never heard American Soldier or Dedicated to Chaos. In the case of the latter...it sounds like I'm not missing much. I may have to check out the former at some point, as I've heard a great many luke warm reviews about it.
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I have never heard American Soldier or Dedicated to Chaos. In the case of the latter...it sounds like I'm not missing much. I may have to check out the former at some point, as I've heard a great many luke warm reviews about it.
Keep it that way, man. For your sanity. The only thing I could even remotely recommend from DTC is At The Edge. And that's for the music itself, if you can get past Tate shitting all over it with his warblegarble.
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I noticed a decline in Geoffs vocals starting with Q2K and Live Evolution. I just figured it was with age; however it seemed that he was making modifications with his vocals and I still thought he sounded very good. He still sounded good to me on tribe and om2. However, the first time I heard Take Cover I did a double take. How on earth is the low point of a QR release Tate's vocals. Tough to accept for fans. Wasn't impressed with AS and DTC is my all time most hated album. For me, the Tate era ended at om2 and I ended up tossing out TC, AS and DTC. I just pretend they don't exist.
1) Operation Mindcrime- my favorite disc of all time
2) Promised Land- awesome atmospheric classic
3) EP
4) Warning
5) Rage for Order
6) S/T- could be switched with any of the three above
7) Empire- pretty commercial, but still fantastic
8) HINF
9) OM2
10) Tribe
11) Q2K
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I don't know if it's been mentioned anywhere in this thread already, but Geoff was a long time smoker, which may have very well taken its toll on him vocally at some point.
He may even still smoke today, I'm not certain.
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I don't know if it's been mentioned anywhere in this thread already, but Geoff was a long time smoker, which may have very well taken its toll on him vocally at some point.
He may even still smoke today, I'm not certain.
Oh it's been mentioned alright! :biggrin:
Career suicide for a singer. Like a guitarist playing 5 finger fillet evry hour of the day. Blindfolded. After being spun round a few times.
It's just plain silly and shows he just doesn't care.
I would be too embarrasssed to get up there in fron t of thousands (hundreds?) of people to sing that badly. Not even for the money.
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Another thing I find amusing is that Geoff seems to find this backing band totally acceptable. He is on stage having a great time and even miming the horrid backing vocals with the crowd. What is he seriously thinking. He had 3-4 of the best musicians working with him for decades, he knows what a band should sound like. Which is why it's so bizarre that this trainwreck seems perfectly valid.
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I don't know if it's been mentioned anywhere in this thread already, but Geoff was a long time smoker, which may have very well taken its toll on him vocally at some point.
He may even still smoke today, I'm not certain.
Oh it's been mentioned alright! :biggrin:
Career suicide for a singer. Like a guitarist playing 5 finger fillet evry hour of the day. Blindfolded. After being spun round a few times.
It's just plain silly and shows he just doesn't care.
I would be too embarrasssed to get up there in fron t of thousands (hundreds?) of people to sing that badly. Not even for the money.
There have been singers who have smoked without any adverse affects to their vocals, but I would venture to say they are the minority. It's just not a good idea
as a singer to take the risk. It can not only dry out the vocal cords, but diminish lung capacity necessary for quality support.
As for Tate himself, being a long time Queensryche fan, I defended the guy for so damn long, but I eventually reached my breaking point. What's happened with him has been nothing but sad and disappointing.
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Another thing I find amusing is that Geoff seems to find this backing band totally acceptable. He is on stage having a great time and even miming the horrid backing vocals with the crowd. What is he seriously thinking. He had 3-4 of the best musicians working with him for decades, he knows what a band should sound like. Which is why it's so bizarre that this trainwreck seems perfectly valid.
According to Ross Halfin Metallica gave them the name Krellryche back in the day. The way Tate behaves you have to wonder if not everyone in the band stopped the habit...
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Hey, you guys all forgot to include Frequency Unknown in your album rankings!
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Another thing I find amusing is that Geoff seems to find this backing band totally acceptable. He is on stage having a great time and even miming the horrid backing vocals with the crowd. What is he seriously thinking. He had 3-4 of the best musicians working with him for decades, he knows what a band should sound like. Which is why it's so bizarre that this trainwreck seems perfectly valid.
It's like that old saying about how if you drink enough beers, even the most unappealing chick in the world might look like the hottest babe in the world. Only here it's the music.
Hey, you guys all forgot to include Frequency Unknown in your album rankings!
That's because it's not a Queensryche album.
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Hey, you guys all forgot to include Frequency Unknown in your album rankings!
That's because it's not a Queensryche album.
Green is the color of sarcasm on DTF :angel:
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Smoking does destroy the voice. Singers who still sound good and who smoke are generally NOT cases where smoking didn't damage their voices, but more are cases where they were lucky in that it didn't damage the sound of their voice too much and they learned to compensate for it and still sound decent.
But in Tate's case, it isn't just the smoking that is the issue. He is a long-time smoker, long-time drinker, and long-time...participant in other things that damage the vocal cords. He also has refused to do the basis things that keep the voice in shape, such as (1) rehearse, and (2) do proper warmups. And he admits as much. But where he gets into truly bilzarro land is that he is competely unrepentant about it and thinks he doesn't need to and just can't be bothered, and he thinks he sounds just fine. His attitude is (paraphrase): "I don't need to do anything different. I've been doing this for a long time and know what I'm doing, and no other singer, vocal coach, etc. can tell me how to sing or take care of my voice. If you don't like the way I sound, that's not my problem. You just don't understand the kind of art I am making. I'm not going to try to sing the way I used to because I don't want to be stuck in the past, and I'm completely over that style." And, yes, that is a paraphrase, but it is NOT an exaggeration. He has said words to the effect of everything I just said on several occasions.
Contrast that with Ray Alder. Ray also smoked, drank, and did other things that had an effect on his voice. He also has lost a lot of his range. But even though he abused his voice, he also did some of the things a singer needs to do to take care of it. So while his range is gone and he at times struggles with pitch in a live setting, he at least still has a voice that can sound good in its limited range. He has something he can work with. And he also has a much different attitude. He admits he probably partied too much, and that that had an effect. And he admits he can't sing the way he used to. And my understanding is that he still wants to have fun out on the road and be who he is (which may include doing some things that aren't the best things for a singer to be doing), he has toned it down and tried to take a little bit better care of himself. I have a lot more respect for someone like him than I do for Tate.
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long-time...participant in other things that damage the vocal cords.
Smoking sausage?
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Bosk is 100% correct. Smoking is a range killer, it swells the vocal folds. In order for a higher pitch to be produced the vocal folds need to come together and thin out; opposite for a lower pitch. However, smoking causes the vocal folds to swell and fluid builds within them. This swell prevents them from thinning out and coming together. Too much swelling and it's permanent, and requires surgery to correct.
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long-time...participant in other things that damage the vocal cords.
Smoking sausage?
This is close to the Serbian slang expression for "sucking d***", so :lol
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That's just strange. Are dice made out of candy in Serbia? We don't generally suck dice in the rest of the civilized world as far as I'm aware. Although, to be honest, some of the crystal D&D dice in different colors did look kinda yummy when I was a kid.
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(https://pixiemoir.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/dandd.jpg?w=610)
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The thought process sparked by El Jonno's question to me inspired me to do a quick ranking:
1. Empire: For the longest time, Promised Land occupied my top spot. It is very close between those two albums. And some days, I would say PL is tops. But Empire is just so good and has so many great songs that stand the test of time. It gets the #1 spot for now.
2. Promised Land: Great album. Virtually flawless.
3. Mindcrime: I feel like I kind of outgrew this story quite some time ago. But I still respect this album's legacy, and there are some top-notch songs on here.
4. Queensryche (self titled): Maybe after the newness wears off some more, I'll drop this one below Rage. But it's a great return to form and, in many ways, is superior to a lot of their earlier work. It's major flaw is song-lengths and resulting album length. A few songs needed to be longer and more developed, and the album as a whole needed another couple of songs.
5. Hear In The Now Frontier: I love this album. There, I said it. Shut up.
6. Rage For Order: I love the experimentation. They really stretched out into some new directions for a metal band, and it paid off.
7. Warning: Bit of a drop-off here from the ones above it, but still a solid effort.
8. American Soldier: This would be close to cracking my top 3 if the vocals were even halfway decent.
9. Tribe: Some VERY solid songs; some clunkers. Perhaps their most inconistent album overall.
10. Mindcrime II: Without opening up the debate about whether it was a good idea to even do a sequel to Mindcrime, this was a missed opportunity. There was some terrific material to work with. But the last 1/3 of the album is a HUGE disappointment, both in terms of song quality AND concept/story.
11. Q2K: A couple of good tunes, and a lot of completely unmemorable ones. And unlike a lot of people, I don't think Howl would have redeemed the album even a little bit had it been included.
12. Take Cover: Normally, I wouldn't even list a covers album. But some of the song choices were excellent, and musically, they did some pretty cool things. But the vocals are SO bad. Just embarassing.
13. Dedicated To Chaos: I gave this a fair listen. That is all it deserved. A used copy sits in my CD collection only because I am a completist and had to have it simply by virtue of the name on the sleeve. Terrible album. There is not a single song that I ever want to hear again.
EP not ranked because it's a 4 song EP.
But bosk, you left out Frequency Unknown! :neverusethis:
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(I actually remember when they played "Queen of the Reich" on KZOK...
:metal
I actually did an hour show on KZOK a long time ago. Met Steve Slaton a couple times.
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5. Hear In The Now Frontier: I love this album. There, I said it. Shut up.
:tup
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I only like 2 QR albums: Mindcrime and Empire
There are assorted tracks from the other albums that are pretty cool, but I own most of them and rarely listen to them. I have a "best of" disc I picked up somewhere that has most of their best songs on it and I toss that in every once in a while. Didn't really connect with the s/t album with the new vocalist, but I think they laid a decent foundation upon which to build themselves back up and regain some credibility.
I'm trying to think of another artist who has crashed -in public- this hard? I think Geoff Tate wins that category hands down.
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If you can't even sound decent in the studio these days, with all the help available, it's the end. tate got there some time ago. But as Bosk paraphrased, it's his art, man :millahhhh :hat
and btw Bosk1, always wanted to ask, does your handle come from the John Norman novels? Tarl Cabot's slave name?
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That's just strange. Are dice made out of candy in Serbia? We don't generally suck dice in the rest of the civilized world as far as I'm aware. Although, to be honest, some of the crystal D&D dice in different colors did look kinda yummy when I was a kid.
:lol
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and btw Bosk1, always wanted to ask, does your handle come from the John Norman novels? Tarl Cabot's slave name?
No, it doesn't. A long time ago, I posted about where it came from. I'll try to remember to try to find the post later. Cozmo seems to be able to find and link to it at will.
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In a dramatic turn of events, I actually have a screenshot of the post in question.
(https://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag94/ShadowNinja38/Boskusername_zps9435b05c.png)
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Um...why?
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Just a reminder that nothing is truly gone from the internet. lol
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Um...why?
:ontome:
Seriously though, I have no idea.
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In a dramatic turn of events, I actually have a screenshot of the post in question.
(https://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag94/ShadowNinja38/Boskusername_zps9435b05c.png)
Huh. I always thought it was a Star Wars reference. (Although, now I find out that that character's name is actually spelled "Bossk".)
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In a dramatic turn of events, I actually have a screenshot of the post in question.
(https://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag94/ShadowNinja38/Boskusername_zps9435b05c.png)
Huh. I always thought it was a Star Wars reference. (Although, now I find out that that character's name is actually spelled "Bossk".)
So glad I asked now. Didn't understand a word (or number of it except for the bit about having nothing better to do :biggrin:)
Yeah and I knew Bosk1 would know that SW's bossk was spelled that way.
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Okay, check this out. VERY good quality of Queensryche playing NM156 last night. One thing that makes this performance extra special is that this is the first time in YEARS (I don't recall the exact date, but I believe it goes back to the early '90s) that they have played the song in its entirety without chopping off the ending and/or the last half of the guitar solo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70Yq909-kBs
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Sounded pretty good, but jeez, the band looked bored out of their minds. Not saying they have to run all over the stage, but there was a severe lack of energy on stage. Maybe I am just remembering how great it was on the Promised Land tour when Tate's performance of it was phenomenal (back when he still had a voice and a good stage presence).
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Okay, check this out. VERY good quality of Queensryche playing NM156 last night. One thing that makes this performance extra special is that this is the first time in YEARS (I don't recall the exact date, but I believe it goes back to the early '90s) that they have played the song in its entirety without chopping off the ending and/or the last half of the guitar solo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70Yq909-kBs
Let's see Tate and his employees try that. On second thoughts, I'd rather not.
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I was just shopping for tickets for Tommy Emmanuel and saw that QR is performing a month earlier, I had to stop for a second and think about which one it was, it's tateryche.
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I have to jump into this thread to put in my two cents. My apologies if I'm way off topic: I really really like the new QR album. Todd is an incredible talent, and the music finally sounds like Queensryche again in my opinion. The album is quite a bit on the short side, but I appreciate quality over quantity; I'd rather they put out 38 minutes of consistently solid music (which they did) than 75 minutes of filler just to use up the whole CD.
Without having to look through the whole thread, has anyone heard Tateryche's album? I haven't even bothered with it because I find Tate's behavior over the past year or so to be so childish. I heard part of the song "Cold" and it wasn't that bad, but it just didn't sound like Queensryche at all.
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Without having to look through the whole thread, has anyone heard Tateryche's album? I haven't even bothered with it because I find Tate's behavior over the past year or so to be so childish. I heard part of the song "Cold" and it wasn't that bad, but it just didn't sound like Queensryche at all.
Yeah. In all honesty, I actually like two of the songs on it, but the rest is really bland and poor. I do think Dedicated To Chaos is worse than Frequency Unknown though.
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I heard part of the song "Cold" and it wasn't that bad, but it just didn't sound like Queensryche at all.
That is by far the best song on the album. The rest is absolute crap, one of the worst albums I've ever bought, if not the worst.
I was just shopping for tickets for Tommy Emmanuel and saw that QR is performing a month earlier, I had to stop for a second and think about which one it was, it's tateryche.
Fuck, would have been awesome if it was the realy Queensryche. Tommy Emmanuel is amazing, one of the best guitarists in the world, so underrated.
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Sounded pretty good, but jeez, the band looked bored out of their minds. Not saying they have to run all over the stage, but there was a severe lack of energy on stage. Maybe I am just remembering how great it was on the Promised Land tour when Tate's performance of it was phenomenal (back when he still had a voice and a good stage presence).
Wilton and jackson have always been trees on stage when I've seen them - DeGarmo and Tate had all the stage presence and now they have neither. I do like Todd though ............new album was decent (best in ages) and looking forward to see if they can take it to the next level. Not too many bands have put 3 albums back to back of the quality of RFO through Empire.
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When I saw them live back in July, Wilton and Jackson were pretty inanimate and while Parker was better, he wasn't much better. Out of all of them, Todd and Scott looked like they were having the most fun.
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If my memory serves me right, the band has had an issue or two behind-the-scenes with their touring management lately, so that's probably it. And of course, who knows if they've been dealing with even more behind-the-scenes problems with Tate lately either. They'll probably liven up next year, once the trial is behind them.
The whole band was really passionate and lively when I saw them back in March, and I was right at the front of the stage when I saw them.
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Queensryche - Ad Lucem (mini movie)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_34YZaER70
While at first I thought of Law and Order, it did suck me in on the second and third listens and I think it phenomenal, especially given that the entire shoot was done in one day. At any rate, I've never seen anything like it done by any other band as far as a mini movie/music video. I have to applaud all involved in this, the producers, actors, band, etc. Very well done and very progressive which is what QR really is.
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The video is well done and the music flows nicely throughout
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Todd shows off his drum chops at a sound check. A little sumpin' sumpin' for the DT folks at the 2:20 mark....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCY2DFzS7og
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I knew it was gonna be that drum part. ;D
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haha... sweet!!
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So yesterday they posted a video for Don't Look Back on their Facebook page, but mentioned this interesting tidbit in the post:
"The first tune Michael and Todd wrote together....lot's more in the works, tracking vocals today for some new material as well!!"
So they're working on new stuff already? Awesome!
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I wouldnt be surprised if something is released this year. And hopefully that court case is done in the next couple of weeks and they can just focus on the music.
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Yeah, I think 12 months after the first record is more than capable for them to release a new album.
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Just master the thing competently this time please.
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Just master the thing competently this time please.
+1 . I haven't even listened to the new disc due to all the folks saying the master is shite.
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Just master the thing competently this time please.
+1 . I haven't even listened to the new disc due to all the folks saying the master is shite.
Its a great album. The only 2 issues are the length and the mastering.
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I really couldn't call the album great. We're our expectations so low that this constitutes as great?
My expectations were very low, because as far as I'm concerned, this band still put out shitty music for years, Tate or no Tate. I'm generally OK with the album, but it feels like a quick EP and the real album is to come. Their next album, IMO, needs to be a LOT better than what they released last year. A LOT.
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I really couldn't call the album great. We're our expectations so low that this constitutes as great?
My expectations were very low, because as far as I'm concerned, this band still put out shitty music for years, Tate or no Tate. I'm generally OK with the album, but it feels like a quick EP and the real album is to come. Their next album, IMO, needs to be a LOT better than what they released last year. A LOT.
I played it tonight and yes, its a great QR album to me. I'm more likely to reach for this than Promised Land. And certainly anything since then. Yes we have been starved of anything resembling QR for a long time but this set of songs is enjoyable even without all the drama attached. IMO.
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I really couldn't call the album great. We're our expectations so low that this constitutes as great?
My expectations were very low, because as far as I'm concerned, this band still put out shitty music for years, Tate or no Tate. I'm generally OK with the album, but it feels like a quick EP and the real album is to come. Their next album, IMO, needs to be a LOT better than what they released last year. A LOT.
I played it tonight and yes, its a great QR album to me.
Agreed 100%. I get that in terms of quantity, it feels like a quick EP. There just isn't enough there. They needed to make the songs a bit longer, and they needed maybe another couple of songs. But in terms of the quality of what is there, yes, this was an excellent album.
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Things that amuse me as I grow older:
Hemispheres would be considered an EP now. :lol
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The new QR was very very good. But I think it was a pretty safe release for the band. With that being said, I've played this thing many times throughout the year and find it quite addicting; similar to the new DT. But I expect the next QR release (hopefully this year) to be a step up. The band should know Todd better and I expect some experimentation with sounds and lengths. Plus I would like some heavier material to come out of it too.
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I really couldn't call the album great. We're our expectations so low that this constitutes as great?
My expectations were very low, because as far as I'm concerned, this band still put out shitty music for years, Tate or no Tate. I'm generally OK with the album, but it feels like a quick EP and the real album is to come. Their next album, IMO, needs to be a LOT better than what they released last year. A LOT.
I'd agree with that - a mid range effort and I feel expectations did play a part in the fawning reception it received. I'm as excited as anyone about QR getting back to something resembling their best , but I also want to see improvement on this effort. They've admitted themselves that it was rushed out and , for me , I'm not sure there's too many songs on it that I like from start to finish. There's usually something in the songs that doesn't sit right with me - eg Repentance...............love the chorus , don't like the pre-chorus.
I do think they have the right man fronting now , so the potential is surely there. Just a matter of whether Wilton and Co. have the songs.
Like Lowdz I would probably be more likely to play this than Promised Land - but then other than One More Time I don't play much off that anyway :)
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I agree with TAC. I like the album a lot. I use the word great with albums for the true gems.
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I do think they have the right man fronting now , so the potential is surely there. Just a matter of whether Wilton and Co. have the songs.
That's a big "if". I still need convincing on that one.
Like Lowdz I would probably be more likely to play this than Promised Land - but then other than One More Time I don't play much off that anyway :)
They lost me on Promised Land. Thought the tour was a great show..
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Just master the thing competently this time please.
+1 . I haven't even listened to the new disc due to all the folks saying the master is shite.
Its a great album. The only 2 issues are the length and the mastering.
Agree. "Great" may be a little strong. Very, VERY good is where I'd put it.
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Lowering the volume and then applying a bass boost equalizer actually makes the album a little easier on the ears, but then, we shouldn't have to do that...
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I think the album is amazing, and the production is way too loud, but for some reason it doesn't bother me all that much.
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Excited about a return to form after so much turbulence over the years. It's a quite good release IMO with only issues a little short and the mastering which has been noted.
What I love about the band is their balance between rock, metal, prog over their career and many of us enjoy the band for different reasons (like some peoples issues with Promised Land for whatever reason - AMAZING album).
The latest release is a little straight forward for my tastes. I hope they still have some minor prog elements as in the past and like jjrock mentioned experimenting with sounds and song lengths (maybe at least a couple longer songs?).
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That's one of the things that always interests me about the Queensryche debates, that they need to do longer songs.
Were they really known for that, though? They operated in the 4-6 minute range far more than they did the 8-10 minute range, and most of their best songs were relatively shorter. The QR I loved wasn't one that was throwing out constant 10 minute tracks. While I wouldn't mind seeing them write good material at any length, a lot of people seem to be associating QR with long songs, and that really wasn't their thing.
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That's one of the things that always interests me about the Queensryche debates, that they need to do longer songs.
Were they really known for that, though? They operated in the 4-6 minute range far more than they did the 8-10 minute range, and most of their best songs were relatively shorter. The QR I loved wasn't one that was throwing out constant 10 minute tracks. While I wouldn't mind seeing them write good material at any length, a lot of people seem to be associating QR with long songs, and that really wasn't their thing.
Yes and no. I'm not saying they need to do epics all the time. They DO have a few that range in the 7-10 minute range, and I can't think of a single of on those that are not awesome. But even if they rarely or never do anything that long again, that's not really the issue.
In their earlier years, MOST of their songs were in the 4-5 minute range. On the latest album, the average run time is a lot lower. Not counting the two "transition"/intro pieces, 5 of the 9 songs don't even crack the 3:30 mark. Each of those could do with another 20-30 seconds, at least. And while that doesn't seem like much, it's all that is needed to help those songs breathe and build a bit more. Sometimes, there's something to be said for the quick, to-the-point song. That's all fine, and you can point to some songs where that works. But others need just a bit more. IMO, In This Light is a perfect example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LGaEOP86Kc Very good song. And I kind of like that it starts suddenly. But the vocals coming in at only about 10 seconds in is too fast, it could use a bit more space between the first chorus and second verse, the transition into the solo is a bit too short, and while the outro solo is VERY nice, it also ends just a bit prematurely. The second two issues probably aren't necessary, but fix the first two and you've got an outstanding song vs. one right now that feels structurally incomplete despite lots of outstanding moments.
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That's one of the things that always interests me about the Queensryche debates, that they need to do longer songs.
Were they really known for that, though? They operated in the 4-6 minute range far more than they did the 8-10 minute range, and most of their best songs were relatively shorter. The QR I loved wasn't one that was throwing out constant 10 minute tracks. While I wouldn't mind seeing them write good material at any length, a lot of people seem to be associating QR with long songs, and that really wasn't their thing.
Yes and no. I'm not saying they need to do epics all the time. They DO have a few that range in the 7-10 minute range, and I can't think of a single of on those that are not awesome. But even if they rarely or never do anything that long again, that's not really the issue.
In their earlier years, MOST of their songs were in the 4-5 minute range. On the latest album, the average run time is a lot lower. Not counting the two "transition"/intro pieces, 5 of the 9 songs don't even crack the 3:30 mark. Each of those could do with another 20-30 seconds, at least. And while that doesn't seem like much, it's all that is needed to help those songs breathe and build a bit more. Sometimes, there's something to be said for the quick, to-the-point song. That's all fine, and you can point to some songs where that works. But others need just a bit more. IMO, In This Light is a perfect example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LGaEOP86Kc Very good song. And I kind of like that it starts suddenly. But the vocals coming in at only about 10 seconds in is too fast, it could use a bit more space between the first chorus and second verse, the transition into the solo is a bit too short, and while the outro solo is VERY nice, it also ends just a bit prematurely. The second two issues probably aren't necessary, but fix the first two and you've got an outstanding song vs. one right now that feels structurally incomplete despite lots of outstanding moments.
A great example and absolutely on the money. The album is full of moments where they could and should have stretched things out a little.
Open Road feels a bit of a missed opportunity. Great song. I love it, it just feels like it should build up a notch at the end.
I'm now off to listen to Roads To Madness, No Sanctuary and Suite Sister Mary.
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3 great tunes there, Lowdz.
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I wonder if some of the people that are bothered about the length of the songs versus the length of the songs in the classic period are being tricked a little bit by the way that the classic era albums flowed. What I mean by this is that often times on the classic albums many of the songs would flow into one another without a break between the songs. Of course, much of mindcrime is like that because it's a concept album and are constructed that way to tie the story together and there are examples of this on all of the other albums from that era. Maybe that makes some of the songs seem to be longer ect. ect...?
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I wonder if some of the people that are bothered about the length of the songs versus the length of the songs in the classic period are being tricked a little bit by the way that the classic era albums flowed. What I mean by this is that often times on the classic albums many of the songs would flow into one another without a break between the songs. Of course, much of mindcrime is like that because it's a concept album and are constructed that way to tie the story together and there are examples of this on all of the other albums from that era. Maybe that makes some of the songs seem to be longer ect. ect...?
Possibly, I certainly see what you mean. QR generally didn't write long songs. I think its more about how the songs on the ST seem like they should be longer and that they seem to be in a rush to get to the end. They didn't let the songs breathe. Quick intro- straight into the verse- straight into the chorus sort of thing. Even the odd extended outro solo would have helped.
Oh and less distorted vocals next time. Let's hear the guy sing.
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I'm only going to disagree to the extent that when they DID write an epic, it was usually some of their best material.
It's true that their best album (RFO) had no long songs. But in my mind, Suite Sister Mary is the single greatest piece of music they ever produced...and it's not even close. Roads to Madness is easily a top 10 all time QR song as well. (just wish the production on the original was a bit better) The other (semi) epic that hasn't been done live with the new lineup is the title track from Promised Land...which has a big following as well.
They have done epics, and when they have done epics they have generally been revered as some of their best material. I think that's what gets fans curious about what a newer epic may sound like.
That being said, I don't think you should "force" an epic. If it comes, it should come naturally.
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It's always nice to watch a video from a band having fun, jamming, especially to a song as excellent as Redemption. This whole album is just stellar and it just a breath of fresh air to see the band look as happy as they are now. You can genuinely see that in this video. :tup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Eer13yWrU
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But... This video is very old.
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Um...this came out in October and is already in the Queensryche thread.
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It's always nice to watch a video from a band having fun, jamming, especially to a song as excellent as Redemption. This whole album is just stellar and it just a breath of fresh air to see the band look as happy as they are now. You can genuinely see that in this video. :tup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Eer13yWrU
You're a little late bro.
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Oh... oh well. :facepalm:
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Still a great tune and a kickass album though.
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I hadn't heard anything about the court case in a while, but then I saw this:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/geoff_tate_looking_forward_to_settling_queensryche_case.html (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/geoff_tate_looking_forward_to_settling_queensryche_case.html)
"Everything's kind of been on hold while we finish up our court case and everything, which we hope we'll finish up at the end of January. We're just in the final stages of trying to work out settlements now. For me at least, the last year and a half has been quite a difficult time. I'm looking forward to it being settled and moving on."
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It's true that their best album (RFO) had no long songs.
It's always interesting how music tastes can very. There are only 4 songs on that album I like, the rest I find to unlistenable.
The 4 are "Walk in the Shadows", "The Whisper", "Surgical Strike", "Neue Regel".
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Indeed. I find it hard to imagine someone filing I Dream In Infrared, The Killing Words, London, I will Remember and Screaming in Digital as "unlistenable".
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I might give them all a listen again, I haven't listened to any of them in years. i fisrt heard them during my :metal days now that I've :chill I might find them :hat. You get me?! :lol
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I might give them all a listen again, I haven't listened to any of them in years. i fisrt heard them during my :metal days now that I've :chill I might find them :hat. You get me?! :lol
Even if that isn't the case, I feel that RfO (along with Promised Land) is really one of those "grower" albums. It's very layered and complex with all of the synths and guitar-work. Not to mention that Neil Kernon's production style adds a bit of an atmosphere to the music, so you might have to adjust to that too.
That said, if you keep with it and give it time, RfO will generally give you plenty of rewards.
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RFO grew on me - Promised Land did not (I always liked One More Time but that's about it)
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I didn't see a Geoff Tate thread...and I don't think he's worth making one. But I thought this was good for a laugh.
https://www.king5.com/video?id=248383061&sec=619972
Geoff...with his band...doing The Kinks "Lola"....badly....with a freakin wig.
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Mother of god
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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Looks like he borrowed James Christian's hair :D
He's just getting more and more pathetic and I'm surprised he can still pull a TV gig like that - although I have no idea of the status of that program.
On the positive side
- he did sound more in tune there than I've heard in a while
- it's an improvement on this
(https://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/88957265/Geoff+Tates+Queensrche+Cabaret.jpg)
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WTF did I just watch?! :lol
And WTF with that picture?! :lol
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I didn't see a Geoff Tate thread...and I don't think he's worth making one. But I thought this was good for a laugh.
https://www.king5.com/video?id=248383061&sec=619972
Geoff...with his band...doing The Kinks "Lola"....badly....with a freakin wig.
It wasn't even his "band." Just him and Jason Ames, with Miranda and some other unidentified...girls, gyrating in the background. :facepalm:
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Who is the fat chick in that pic?
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Back up singer sounds better lol
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- it's an improvement on this
(https://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/88957265/Geoff+Tates+Queensrche+Cabaret.jpg)
I have no idea what this is from, but it has to be one of the worst costume ideas in the history of rock and metal performance. :rollin
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Looks like he borrowed James Christian's hair :D
He's just getting more and more pathetic and I'm surprised he can still pull a TV gig like that - although I have no idea of the status of that program.
On the positive side
- he did sound more in tune there than I've heard in a while
- it's an improvement on this
(https://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/88957265/Geoff+Tates+Queensrche+Cabaret.jpg)
I'd finally erased this image from my mind and would like to thank you for re-burning the image into my retinas.
The Cabaret tour is one of many reasons I was ecstatic when I found out he was fired from the band.
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My pleasure ozzy ;D
Here's a close up - not sure what he's up to there
(https://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/queens.jpeg)
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I think he's doing whatever he does in the bathroom in the morning.
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I thought that was a fun video. Had I not known about Geoff Tate and all the stuff that went down over the years, I would have thought he's quite a character.
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I thought that was a fun video. Had I not known about Geoff Tate and all the stuff that went down over the years, I would have thought he's quite a character.
Well, he is definitely quite a character, that's for sure.
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Who is the fat chick in that pic?
Geoff Tate.
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If QR didn't give this nutball the boot, this could've officially been a QR performance.
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We need to have a survivor of Tate's most cringe-worthy moments over the past few years -- the EPK, the brazil incident, the cell-phone incident, the cabaret, this wig, etc. The list goes on and on.
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No thanks. If we do that, news media all over the world will have to report on a few cases of spontaneous self-implosion and they will never know what caused it. Cringe in such cosmic proportions is a very dangerous thing.
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We need to have a survivor of Tate's most cringe-worthy moments over the past few years -- the EPK, the brazil incident, the cell-phone incident, the cabaret, this wig, etc. The list goes on and on.
The winner will always be "Wot We Do."
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Just checked the Triple Door's website for these shows in May, looks like about 80% of the seats are still available by my rough estimation. And this is not a huge theater.
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Has anyone heard any news or rumors about the legal stuff between the band and Tate, lately? I've tried to search around a little, but I'm not finding anything new.
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We need to have a survivor of Tate's most cringe-worthy moments over the past few years -- the EPK, the brazil incident, the cell-phone incident, the cabaret, this wig, etc. The list goes on and on.
The winner will always be "Wot We Do."
I dunno.... I remember when he was doing promos for Kings & Thieves and he said he was part black, especially below the waist.....
https://www.classicrockmagazine.com/music_and_videos/geoff-tate-kings-and-thieves-track-by-track/ (https://www.classicrockmagazine.com/music_and_videos/geoff-tate-kings-and-thieves-track-by-track/)
Kinky sex? Well, yeah, of course I’m into it! It depends what your definition of “kinky” is. We all have our lines in the sand. But at my age, I don’t know what it is, I’m more interested in sex now than I was in my 20s. In my 20s and 30s I was more interested in pushing my career, more concentrated on accomplishment. Now, all I wanna do is fuck! Luckily my wife is up for it – she’s at a wonderful age too. We’re having a great time now the kids are grown. I have African-American heritage and I joke to her: “I’m African-American from the waist down!”
Not sure it gets anymore cringe-worthy then that.
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Has anyone heard any news or rumors about the legal stuff between the band and Tate, lately? I've tried to search around a little, but I'm not finding anything new.
It's still getting sorted.
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Has anyone heard any news or rumors about the legal stuff between the band and Tate, lately? I've tried to search around a little, but I'm not finding anything new.
It's still getting sorted.
^That. There have been trial continuances while the parties discuss settlement. Since settlement is typically a private, confidential process, there is no news. Can't remember what the current trial date is. If the case settles (which it probably will), there probably will not be any news other than the case being dismissed.
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Has anyone heard any news or rumors about the legal stuff between the band and Tate, lately? I've tried to search around a little, but I'm not finding anything new.
It's still getting sorted.
^That. There have been trial continuances while the parties discuss settlement. Since settlement is typically a private, confidential process, there is no news. Can't remember what the current trial date is. If the case settles (which it probably will), there probably will not be any news other than the case being dismissed.
I wouldn't be surprised if it worked out like the Saxon split, where the band continued to use the name, and there was also Oliver/Dawson Saxon.
Something like the band keeping the name and Geoff Tate being able to go with Geoff Tate's Queensryche.
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I know many of you visit The Breakdown Room. Just got the e-mail about its closing. Sad day, but that forum sure accomplished a lot.
Link: https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=5366.msg124993#new
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I know many of you visit The Breakdown Room. Just got the e-mail about its closing. Sad day, but that forum sure accomplished a lot.
Link: https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=5366.msg124993#new
This is nothing but pure speculation on my part, but I can't help but wonder: Was this perhaps part of the settlement? The owner of the Brakedown Room was not a party to the lawsuit, so of course, he would not have to agree to anything. But I could perhaps envision a scenario along the lines of the Tates asking the the band request that Samsara shut the site down as part of the settlement, and if both the band and Samsara ultimately thought that that was in the band's best interest...who knows? Certainly within the realm of possibility. But, again, I am only speculating.
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the latest setlist from queensryche w/ todd la torre
Nightrider
Breaking the Silence
Walk in the Shadows
The Whisper
En Force
Warning
I Will Remember
Vindication
Midnight Lullaby
A World Without
Guitar Solo
(Michael Wilton and Parker Lundgren)
The Needle Lies
NM 156
The Lady Wore Black
My Empty Room
Eyes of a Stranger
Empire
Encore:
Queen of the Reich
Jet City Woman
Take Hold of the Flame
I hope they play near me soon, I would love to see nightrider live.
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I know many of you visit The Breakdown Room. Just got the e-mail about its closing. Sad day, but that forum sure accomplished a lot.
Link: https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=5366.msg124993#new
This is nothing but pure speculation on my part, but I can't help but wonder: Was this perhaps part of the settlement? The owner of the Brakedown Room was not a party to the lawsuit, so of course, he would not have to agree to anything. But I could perhaps envision a scenario along the lines of the Tates asking the the band request that Samsara shut the site down as part of the settlement, and if both the band and Samsara ultimately thought that that was in the band's best interest...who knows? Certainly within the realm of possibility. But, again, I am only speculating.
Given how you make your living, bosk1, I would have thought you'd be a bit more responsible than throwing out ridiculous speculation, particularly when you have the ability to straight-up ask me what the deal was. But since you didn't bother to do that, I'll go ahead and put it out there for you:
Emphatically -- NO, closing The Breakdown Room was never a part of a settlement. First, I'm not a party to the lawsuit. Second, had that been something requested by the Tates, and the band (Michael, Eddie and Scott) asked me to do it, I would NOT have agreed to it. I would never concede anything to Geoff Tate. Ever. Had that request even been made of me, I would have posted it publicly for everyone to see. The Breakdown Room is a symbol of integrity, and I wouldn't break that for anyone.
The reasons for me shutting down The Breakdown Room are as I stated before -- https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=5366.msg124961#msg124961
And there's also this -- https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=5372.0
That really sums it up entirely. A personal decision after 10 years beating the drum...and winning. I accomplished what I set out to do with the forum. It goes out at the top of its game. Just the way I wanted it, on my own terms. For those of you that are football fans, think Jim Brown or Barry Sanders.
There is so much more great music to enjoy and frankly, I'm glad to be moving on from leading a forum. I can be just a fan again and so some other things I have wanted to do.
So to reiterate, your speculation is completely off the mark and inaccurate and could have been avoided had you simply just asked.
B
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Okay, good to know.
Just to clarify one thing, nothing in my post is meant to imply conceding anything to the Tates. My speculation was about whether the decision was somehow arrived at as something that was perhaps seen as "for the greater good" for reasons that we in the general public may not be aware of. As such, I did not think it was appropriate to ask you, which is why I did not.
Not the first time a bit of speculation proved to be wrong, and I'm sure it won't be the last. :dunno: :lol
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Interesting insight regarding The Breakdown Room's role in QR's upheaval: https://www.vindication156.net/index.php?topic=136.msg2152#msg2152
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Interesting read.
So what is the settlement? It says he didn't want to post until a settlement was reached.
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They all agreed that Geoff Tate gets slapped every day for the rest of his life. He's probably into that anyway.
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I see a couple things on the net saying an amicable settlement was reached and there will be a press release soon.
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Presented by Mike Portnoy?
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interesting read
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Thanks fort the link Samsara, an interesting read. I don't know enough about the personalities involved. QR is just one of those bands where I listen to the music but have no conenction or knowledge with the band otherwise.
an amicable settlement
Pretty sure whenever it says that, it just means both parties are glad they can stop writing checks to their lawyers.
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Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/going-forward-geoff-tate-will-be-known-as-the-voice-of-queensryche/
GEOFF TATE Is 'The Voice Of QUEENSRźCHE'
In what appears to be a preview of the upcoming settlement announcement over the rights to the QUEENSRźCHE name, singer Geoff Tate's QUEENSRźCHE webpage has changed. It no longer says "QUEENSRźCHE" at the top and now features a banner with the words "Geoff Tate: The Voice Of QUEENSRźCHE." In addition, there is a link to "QUEENSRźCHE Without Geoff Tate" which points to QueensrycheOfficial.com, the official webpage of the Todd La Torre-fronted version of the band.
QUEENSRźCHE guitarist Michael Wilton recently confirmed that Tate — who was fired from the Seattle progressive rock band in 2012 after fronting it for three decades — and his former bandmates have reached a settlement in their legal battle over the rights to the group's name.
Speaking to the Allentown Music Examiner, Wilton was asked when fans can expect a resolution of the legal case involving the two versions of QUEENSRźCHE. "That's coming up," Wilton said. "What I can say is that both sides have reached an amicable settlement and it's now just a matter of time. There will be an official press release, but for now, you'll have to wait."
Wilton also revealed that the Todd La Torre-fronted version of QUEENSRźCHE is continuing work on material for the follow-up to last year's self-titled effort. "We've already begun the process for the next album," he said. "We have probably six songs demoed so far. We're taking it in a direction suited to what we do as QUEENSRźCHE but maybe a little more progressive and heavier. The thing is, you never know what you really have until it's complete. It's like carving a piece of clay and seeing how it turns out. You peel off the layers until you get to something really cool."
Tate and his wife, Susan, QUEENSRźCHE's former manager, filed a lawsuit in June 2012 asking the judge to award them the rights to the band's name in exchange for Tate paying Eddie Jackson (bass), Michael Wilton (guitar) and Scott Rockenfield (drums) the fair market value for their interests in the QUEENSRźCHE companies. Wilton, Rockenfield and Jackson filed a countersuit against the Tates in which they accused Geoff of creative obstruction and violent behavior, and Susan Tate of questionable business practices.
While ruling against Tate, the presiding judge determined that there was no legal hurdle in Tate also using the name with an all-new lineup of musicians. "I don't see any reason that Mr. Tate can't have the benefit, if he gets other members, of whatever name he uses of using the brand," Superior Court Judge Carol A. Schapira said during the July 13, 2012 court hearing. "I think [doing that would be] inherently confusing, although I'm sure the market can get these things sorted out," she added.
Wilton, Rockenfield and Jackson last year accused Geoff Tate of "continu[ing] to harm the QUEENSRźCHE brand" since the Tates' original lawsuit was filed in June 2012. In a court document, they wrote: "The newest self-titled QUEENSRźCHE CD release by the [Todd La Torre-fronted version of the band] entered the U.S. charts at #23 and continues to get 9-out-of-10-star reviews and is still selling very well on a weekly basis around the globe. In comparison, Geoff Tate released his own QUEENSRźCHE CD in April of [2013] titled 'Frequency Unknown' and depicted as F.U. on the cover, which entered the charts at #82, received very bad reviews around the world, and has slowed to almost no more weekly sales. [The Todd La Torre-fronted version of QUEENSRźCHE's] new CD even outperformed the last two CDs of them with Geoff Tate, selling more in a month than the 'Dedicated to Chaos' CD has since its release in 2010, and charting much better than both that album and the previous one, 'American Soldier'. Thus, the return to the classic sound [Tate's former] bandmates have made with the new CD and live shows has been met with overwhelming success."
They added: "Geoff Tate also chose very poorly in hiring live musicians that have shown that they are not capable of representing the correct performances of the QUEENSRźCHE music legacy, and he was constantly replacing them. He has been offering his low-quality version of QUEENSRźCHE to the promoters at a much reduced rate, as low as $10,000 per night, when, in fact, [his former] bandmates have done their best to keep the authorized QUEENSRźCHE at an average of well over $20,000 per show this entire year. However, this becomes harder and harder with Geoff Tate's sub-par band and cut-rate pricing that continues to be damaging to the QUEENSRźCHE brand and legacy no matter who ultimately wins control after trial."
In an interview with The Oakland Press, Rockenfield said said that "negotiations are ongoing between Tate and the singer's former bandmates and "there's still time for anything to happen between now and [the start of the trial]."
"I think our confidence is pretty high," Scott said. "There's a lot of legal stuff you have to deal with, but we just feel good and look at it as a light at the end of the tunnel and keep playing shows and making music. I think when you do that, the right decision will be made in time."
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/going-forward-geoff-tate-will-be-known-as-the-voice-of-queensryche/#rQhIAuHvokwWqS3u.99
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I'll wait for the official press release(s) but I was really hoping Tate would not be able to reference the QR name in any way.
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I really find it hard to believe they settled with him and it would allow him to call himself "the voice of Queensryche." That's just a few words away from saying he IS Queensryche.
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Is it possible GT also is getting to keep the QR.com site?
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Man, they shoulda stuck with Rising West.
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Wow, more fail on Blabbermouth's part. That is not news.
Man, they shoulda stuck with Rising West.
???
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I really find it hard to believe they settled with him and it would allow him to call himself "the voice of Queensryche." That's just a few words away from saying he IS Queensryche.
If that concession made the negotiations work out better for the band I really don't care. All I really care about is that there is one "Queensryche" going forward and that Queensryche is the actual Queensryche.
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Man, they shoulda stuck with Rising West.
Pitch this idea to the band: Hey guys, I know you've always been Queensryche, your early years or constant touring and struggle are behind you, and you now have families to support, but why don't you just change your name for a quick out of this situation and forego all the financial benefits and opportunities associated with the name Queensryche?
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It's very confusing if Geoff's website is any indication - the touring info refers to his band as Queensryche and he uses the old Mindcrime era logos etc....
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Wow, more fail on Blabbermouth's part. That is not news.
Man, they shoulda stuck with Rising West.
???
It's what they initially named the Todd version of Queensryche, which started as a side project while the other guys were still in Queensryche.
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Wow, more fail on Blabbermouth's part. That is not news.
Man, they shoulda stuck with Rising West.
???
It's what they initially named the Todd version of Queensryche, which started as a side project while the other guys were still in Queensryche.
Bosk knows this, he's wondering why Queensryche would want to call themselves anything other than Queensryche.
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Exactly. ZKX-2099's comment is so out of left field that I do not understand what he possibly could have meant by it.
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Sorry boss, of course you know who Rising West were, I didn't even pay attention who posted the comment. I should take more care. :facepalm:
Yeah, you and Nick are right though, after both parties disbanded and Tate was out, it would be career suicide to stick with the new name.
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Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.
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Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.
Yeah, starting fresh has a nice ring to it, but do you enjoy burning barrels of cash and future cash in your backyard? I'm guessing not, and I guess they don't either.
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Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.
I doubt it. Sure, most online fans who are aware of the circumstances would, but there'd be plenty of fans who would have no idea.
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Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.
I doubt it. Sure, most online fans who are aware of the circumstances would, but there'd be plenty of fans who would have no idea.
Yeah, my initial opinion was for them to start fresh as Rising West, back when people were wondering if they were going to oust Tate from Queensryche or not.
But I soon realized that a lot of people had no idea what was going on with the band and I've heard plenty of reports from others that ran into folks at recent QR concerts that were shocked to hear that Tate had been fired from Queensryche. So yeah, they really do need the band name.
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Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.
I doubt it. Sure, most online fans who are aware of the circumstances would, but there'd be plenty of fans who would have no idea.
Absolutely. Still I hear plenty of stories of clueless fans going to see one incarnation or another and being surprised that Geoff Tate or the band isn't there. And the Queensryche name carries a tremendous amount of equity with it. I'm sure getting to reference it in some way was a BIG sticking point for Geoff Tate in the settlement.
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A groups of friends ended up talking to a guy about music in a bar about two years ago, and when Dream Theater came up, he was like, "Oh yeah, I love them!" But when I said, "What do you think of the new drummer?", he was like, "Wait, they have a new drummer? What happened to Mike Portnoy?" And this was more than a year after he had left, and after ADTOE was already out, so yeah, people who aren't internet dorks like us :lol don't always know the inside and outs of their favorite bands.
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And there are probably plenty of folks who might go see a "Queensryche" show, based only on knowing their hits from the 90s, but would pay no attention to a "Rising West" show.
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Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.
Yeah, starting fresh has a nice ring to it, but do you enjoy burning barrels of cash and future cash in your backyard? I'm guessing not, and I guess they don't either.
I think the damage to the QR name was done by the time Dedicated To Chaos came out. Any decrease in revenue would have to be at least a lateral move.
Also.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensr%C3%BFche_%28album%29#Chart_performance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_Unknown#Chart_performance
People know what's up.
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Start fresh. Most of the fans would know who they are and a name change would be the best way to distance themselves from the taint of Tate.
Yeah, starting fresh has a nice ring to it, but do you enjoy burning barrels of cash and future cash in your backyard? I'm guessing not, and I guess they don't either.
I think the damage to the QR name was done by the time Dedicated To Chaos came out. Any decrease in revenue would have to be at least a lateral move.
Also.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensr%C3%BFche_%28album%29#Chart_performance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_Unknown#Chart_performance
People know what's up.
I know the S/T album did better, and fans in the know did well to come out and support the band. That said the band is clearly better off, especially in touring, with their name as opposed to a new name.
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Apparently they've reached a settlement according to Blabbermouth. I'd link it but I'm on my phone and too lazy to go five feet to my computer.
The original 3 members got the sole rights to the name, but Tate can still perform Mindcrime I & II in their entirety.
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. . . but Tate can still perform Mindcrime I & II in their entirety.
Well, maybe he's allowed to, but I have my doubts as to whether he can. ;)
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Are there any laws preventing a band from playing someone else's album in it's entirety? Do cover bands get away with playing another bands material because it's a variety of songs from different albums?
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OK here it is (Queensryche shared the link, so it's legit):
https://blogs.seattletimes.com/soundposts/2014/04/28/its-official-the-battle-over-the-future-of-queensryche-is-settled/
The contentious, long-running legal battle that resulted in two rival versions of Northwest rock band Queensryche has finally been settled.
“We wanted to let Queensryche fans around the world know that an amicable settlement has been reached between Eddie Jackson, Scott Rockenfield, Michael Wilton and Geoff Tate with regard to the future of the Queensryche name,” the two bands said in a joint statement released Sunday night.
The agreement stipulates that original Queensryche members Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield, as well as newer members Todd LaTorre and Parker Lundgren, will now be the sole band recording and touring as Queensryche, performing songs from a musical catalog that spans more than 30 years.
Original Queensryche lead singer Geoff Tate (who had formed a second version of the band) will perform, record and pursue “other creative endeavors,” but as part of the agreement will have the exclusive right to perform the concept albums “Operation: Mindcrime” and “Operation: Mindcrime II” in unique performances.
Tate will do a brief Queensryche “farewell” tour this summer before launching a new chapter his career.
The Grammy-nominated, progressive heavy-metal band — which has sold more than 30 million albums worldwide since the early 1980s — split into two separate, acrimonious camps nearly two years ago. A lawsuit resulted in a King County Superior Court ruling that each side could use the same name until the case went to trial or was settled.
According to Wilton, the agreement calls for Queensryche corporate assets to be evenly divided among himself, Jackson, Rockenfield and Tate.
Both sides say they are relieved to settle the dispute and look forward to moving on.
“It’s the rebirth of Queensryche and the way it used to be,” Wilton said by phone last night. “We’re rebuilding the Queensryche name.”
Wilton said the group felt re-energized during a set Saturday night at the M3 Rock Festival in Baltimore, performing along with Tesla, Night Ranger and other bands.
“There was probably a little more adrenalin on stage,” he said. “I think the fans were expecting a mediocre show and when they heard (singer Todd LaTorre), after three or four songs, they completely accepted him and just went ballistic.”
Geoff Tate (photo by Ron Dukeshire)
Geoff Tate (photo by Ron Dukeshire)
Tate is especially pleased that the case was settled outside of a courtroom.
“One thing that’s really important for people to understand is that this never went to court,” he said by phone after returning from a show in Louisiana.
“They (Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield) bought the name from me. But I retain ‘Operation Mindcrime.’ It’s sort of similar to the Pink Floyd situation where Roger Waters retained ‘The Wall.’ ‘Mindcrime’ was my thing and my story, so it’s appropriate that I keep that. So they will continue on as Queensryche, and I will continue on as me.”
With the lawsuit resolved, Tate is now free to reinvent himself.
The singer has created a new, Seattle-only show, dubbed “Rock and Vaudeville,” that reinterprets the history of rock ‘n’ roll since the ‘50s, featuring songs by Elvis Presley, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Queen, AC/DC and other artists. A series of five shows are scheduled May 1-3 at the Triple Door.
“It started out as a project to take my mind away from the court case, because there was so much negativity,” Tate said. “I’m a very creative person, and I like to live in that world of making things up and creating musical pieces and stories. That’s where I operate the best. It’s something I’ve wanted to do for a long time.”
Meanwhile, Wilton and his Queensryche band mates are working on songs for a follow-up to last year’s successful album, “Queensryche,” released by Century Media Records. But the group isn’t planning to do a local show until possibly the fall.
“We’ll definitely do a big re-launch of the band in Seattle,” Wilton said.
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Happy for them. Glad to finally get this thing out of the way.
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nice to see this thing finally done
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Original Queensryche lead singer Geoff Tate (who had formed a second version of the band) will perform, record and pursue “other creative endeavors,”
I love how 'other creative endeavors' is in quotes, as if to say "other such bullshit that has nothing to do with quality music."
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My favorite bit from Tate is this:
“They (Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield) bought the name from me. But I retain ‘Operation Mindcrime.’ It’s sort of similar to the Pink Floyd situation where Roger Waters retained ‘The Wall.’ ‘Mindcrime’ was my thing and my story, so it’s appropriate that I keep that. So they will continue on as Queensryche, and I will continue on as me.”
Implication is that he had the rights to the name and out of the kindness of his heart sold it to the other guys since he wanted to just pursue his artistic vision. What a load of bull.
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Are there any laws preventing a band from playing someone else's album in it's entirety? Do cover bands get away with playing another bands material because it's a variety of songs from different albums?
Hmmmm, I don't think there is any laws preventing a band from playing someone's album in its entirety. It is another story if that band wants to do a pro-shot (DVDs, TVs, etc). I heard somewhere that people in the GNR camp kinda blocked Slash's Live DVD in Stoke in the US back around 2011 due to Axl owning the name and rights to the GNR songs that was shown in that DVD.
I'm not too sure how it works. I like to know how these things work as well.
So, I guess if LaTorre-fronted Queensryche wants to do a live dvd and they play songs from Operation Mindcrime on it, they have to pay a certain amount of money to Geoff Tate to get that right to release it, or is it the other way around?
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Good to know that the thing is finally settled. :tup
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LaTorre-fronted Queensryche
Not that is wasn't the case before, but now officially, it's simply Queensryche.
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Ok, fair enough, but I'm still asking the question. So if Queensryche wanted to do a live DVD and play songs from Operation Mindcrime, can they release it without Geoff Tate meddling?
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The way I read the release is that Tate can perform the whole album in full and promote as such. I would think the rest of the band can probably perform a set number of songs per show and be fine.
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Yeah, I'm sure the band can play songs throughout their set, but I think Tate would have something to say if they wanted to do a full album production live.
Glad this thing is settled and settled in the right way.
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Bottom line on questions like that is: Whatever the law generally allows may not be relevant here. Whatever the parties agreed to in their settlement is what will control, and we will likely never know a lot of the specifics of that.
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Keep seeing "Glad this is settled, over, the end" etc.... does anyone really think this is over, over? :corn
Seriously I get what everyone is meaning, but we all can expect (especially with Tate) that there will be some shots back and forth and comments from Tate down the road still.
Glad that the name issue is settled for sure. Hoping for more good stuff coming from the band in the not so distant future!
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So does that mean that Queensryche can't perform anything from Mindcrime or what? Since Tate reserves the "exclusive" right to perform them in their entirety. Maybe it is just that - can't play the whole album?
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So does that mean that Queensryche can't perform anything from Mindcrime or what? Since Tate reserves the "exclusive" right to perform them in their entirety. Maybe it is just that - can't play the whole album?
The consensus I've read nearly universally across the board is that Queensryche CAN play songs from OMC...but not "full performances". (and they probably have to kick GT a couple of bucks for every song they play. As someone mentioned, this is pretty much exactly like the Pink Floyd/Roger Waters situation with The Wall)
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How much music did Tate write on O:M? If not that much, why are lyrics the deciding factor on who owns what?
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How much music did Tate write on O:M? If not that much, why are lyrics the deciding factor on who owns what?
Tate wrote the lyrics, but 0 of the music. As Bosk eluded to, they can settle however they wish, but it would be a lot more appropriate if Tate could only go to poetry readings and read off his contribution, because really he is only a part of that album.
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How much music did Tate write on O:M? If not that much, why are lyrics the deciding factor on who owns what?
Because singers believe that people think that lyrics are the draw of the song and means more than the instrumental part of the song? But yeah, I agree with your question. Who in the world declared that the lyrics are above instrumentals? One could argue that the lyrics are nothing without the instrumental part of the music.
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I have no idea how broadly this is applied but I heard an interesting interview recently with producer Max Norman who was discussing Ozzy's input into the early solo album songs and his share of publishing and it was basically 50% because apparently by far the most heavy weighting in publishing goes to who came up with the lyrics (Daisley etc... with small contribution from Ozzy) and vocal melody lines (almost all Ozzy). The musicians didn't get much of a look in unless they had input into those areas.
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Well......
To play devil's advocate for a moment, it's different in the case of a concept or story album like OMC or by extension The Wall. Because *A BIG* part of the draw is the concept. Revolution Calling (and other portions of the story) struck a chord in the minds of youth at the time. OMC would not have had *even half* the impact that it did without its concepts. It captured a mood that a lot of kids were feeling. Not that it caused a revolution...but people lived vicariously through the idea of revolution. And the more broken the political system becomes, the more the message will *continue* to resonate with people, and youth in particular.
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Lyrics aren't AS much of a draw when it's something like You Shook Me All Night Long...but there are instances where lyrics *are* a primary draw...
OMC's lyrics and more importantly it's story and concepts are *A HUGE* draw to that album by the majority of people who have heard it and love it.
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Lyrics aren't AS much of a draw when it's something like You Shook Me All Night Long...but there are instances where lyrics *are* a primary draw...
OMC's lyrics and more importantly it's story and concepts are *A HUGE* draw to that album by the majority of people who have heard it and love it.
All right, that's a good point. I hadn't heard of Operation Mindcrime or was aware that it is a concept album. With these info in mind, I guess it makes sense that Tate got what he wants in the process.
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Lyrics aren't AS much of a draw when it's something like You Shook Me All Night Long...but there are instances where lyrics *are* a primary draw...
OMC's lyrics and more importantly it's story and concepts are *A HUGE* draw to that album by the majority of people who have heard it and love it.
All right, that's a good point. I hadn't heard of Operation Mindcrime or was aware that it is a concept album. With these info in mind, I guess it makes sense that Tate got what he wants in the process.
???
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I agree that lyrics and concepts can be important, but put O:M's lyrics on Dedicated to Chaos and you'd still have an album no one would listen to.
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I agree that lyrics and concepts can be important, but put O:M's lyrics on Dedicated to Chaos and you'd still have an album no one would listen to.
I never said they were *bigger* than the music. But some concepts deserve the 50/50 argument more than others.
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Really glad this is finally over. Congrats to Todd and the guys!
About the whole Mindcrime thing, I have a few thoughts about what exactly that may entail.
Original Queensryche lead singer Geoff Tate (who had formed a second version of the band) will perform, record and pursue “other creative endeavors,” but as part of the agreement will have the exclusive right to perform the concept albums “Operation: Mindcrime” and “Operation: Mindcrime II” in unique performances.
"Unique performances" is a very vague and elastic phrase. It could mean only Tate can perform the entire album as a "set", where as the rest of the band can perform anything from the album, just not as a full "set", but depending on how the exact settlement is worded, it's also possible that the band can perform the full album "raw", i.e. play all the songs in sequential order without the theatrics, like costume changes, story related video, etc. If that's the case, then the settlement may also mean that the band can perform the album in it's entirety, but they simply cannot advertise their intent to do so, unlike Tate, who can pimp his "Mindcrime" shows from now 'till Ragnarok.
Regardless, I don't think Tate is really going to get as much out of this stipulation as he thinks. Mindcrime has been done to death, and he has proven over the past couple years that he cannot even perform it properly anymore. If I really want to hear Geoff singing O:M in it's entirety, I have Operation: LIVEcrime for that, I don't need to waste money seeing it in concert, especially today. And even if Todd and the guys cannot perform it in full as a set, I'm sure over the years they will perform every song off the album eventually, and I will most likely be there to hear them all.
Besides, this is the age of Youtube. When the band has performed all those songs live, someone will do a video of all of them with Todd in sequential order, and that will be good enough for me. ;)
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In Tate's delusional mind, he got to save a little face by being allowed to call himself "The voice of Queensryche" and getting theatrical Mindcrime, and the real band get to wash their hands clean of Tate without losing anything of real value. Tate will be happy for a little bit until he realizes he got the short end and will find some way to weasel some headlines again.
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And just so he can squeeze a bit more money out of the name while he can: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-announces-queensryche-starring-geoff-tate-the-farewell-tour/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-announces-queensryche-starring-geoff-tate-the-farewell-tour/)
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And just so he can squeeze a bit more money out of the name while he can: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-announces-queensryche-starring-geoff-tate-the-farewell-tour/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-announces-queensryche-starring-geoff-tate-the-farewell-tour/)
For the past several months, Geoff and his version of QUEENSRźCHE (comprised of bassist Rudy Sarzo, guitarist Robert Sarzo, guitarist Kelly Gray, drummer Simon Wright and keyboardist Randy Gane) have been performing the fan favorite on their 25th-Anniversary Mindcrime Tour (with special guest Sass Jordan as "Sister Mary") in front of sold-out audiences everywhere.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Everything else I've been reading is saying that he's been playing to half-empty venues, and even the occasional "boo-fest". I did hear at least one insider say that Geoff himself bought out the unsold tickets of one show just so he could advertise that it was "sold out"....
This man very well could be the biggest douche in rock history. Although I know Yngwie Malmsteen makes a good case as well.
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And just so he can squeeze a bit more money out of the name while he can: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-announces-queensryche-starring-geoff-tate-the-farewell-tour/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-announces-queensryche-starring-geoff-tate-the-farewell-tour/)
Arghhhh. What a mouthful of a title. This commenter stretched it to make it even more hilarious.
How bout "Queensr˙che The Farewell Tour-Starring Geoff Tate. The Voice Of Queensr˙che. The visionary who brought you Operation: Mindcrime and Operation: Mindcrime II. The look, sound, taste and smell of Queensr˙che. The absolute dead last time Queensr˙che starring Geoff Tate "The voice of Queensr˙che" will ever perform on this the final farewell tour."
.
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(https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/jammindude/taternuts_zps78ec5d25.jpg)
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And just so he can squeeze a bit more money out of the name while he can: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-announces-queensryche-starring-geoff-tate-the-farewell-tour/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-announces-queensryche-starring-geoff-tate-the-farewell-tour/)
This would be all fine if he was actually pissing off from the music industry for good. Bullshit attempt at money making.
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One thing that's really important for fans to know is that this never went to court
And why would that be, Geoff? :-\
Also, if the settlement agreement allows for him to use this kind of poster...
(https://assets.blabbermouth.net.s3.amazonaws.com/media/geofftatefarewelltour.jpg)
...then they've fucked up. It's clearly intended to make it seem like Queensryche are splitting up (oh, and they happen to star Geoff Tate in case you'd forgotten).
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One thing that's really important for fans to know is that this never went to court
And why would that be, Geoff? :-\
Also, if the settlement agreement allows for him to use this kind of poster...
(https://assets.blabbermouth.net.s3.amazonaws.com/media/geofftatefarewelltour.jpg)
...then they've fucked up. It's clearly intended to make it seem like Queensryche are splitting up (oh, and they happen to star Geoff Tate in case you'd forgotten).
I'm sure they approved the retirement tour of his lineup, Not entirely sure about the poster.
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It clearly states that Geoff can do a last tour of his version of Queensryche. I'm sad we always get his shows but not the official Queensryche.
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I hope we can finally get our long awaited Portnoy/Tate side project, "Rejected: A marriage gone wrong" with special guest Dave Mustaine.
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I hope we can finally get our long awaited Portnoy/Tate side project, "Rejected: A marriage gone wrong" with special guest Dave Mustaine.
::)
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This man very well could be the biggest douche in rock history. Although I know Yngwie Malmsteen makes a good case as well.
Those two can fight it out for 2nd place, since I still say Axl Rose has number 1 locked down.
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This man very well could be the biggest douche in rock history. Although I know Yngwie Malmsteen makes a good case as well.
Those two can fight it out for 2nd place, since I still say Axl Rose has number 1 locked down.
Steve Perry as well. LOL
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This man very well could be the biggest douche in rock history. Although I know Yngwie Malmsteen makes a good case as well.
Those two can fight it out for 2nd place, since I still say Axl Rose has number 1 locked down.
Steve Perry as well. LOL
Steve is either 3rd or 4th, in my book. I'd rank Axl just slightly under Tate though.
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Steve is either 3rd or 4th, in my book. I'd rank Axl just slightly under Tate though.
Tate might like Axl being under him.
:corn
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Damn, I was only familiar with old Queenschryche studio and live stuff. I had no idea Tate was such a douche and that his modern performances totally suck ass :-[ (just watched a bit of the Brasil 2013 performance :lol). I read that story of that forum, damn :o I will check out Tate-less and real Queensryche soon.
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ErHaO, check these out:
Queen of the Reiche (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqlOqdK938w)
Take Hold (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTYgprxgRxk)
A World Without (new song with Pamela Moore guest vocals) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PCWgI1MkMk#)
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Broke out the new album tonight.
In this light :tup
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(https://assets.blabbermouth.net.s3.amazonaws.com/media/geofftatefarewelltour.jpg)
You know, ignoring the whole Tate thing, if you took away the context and got a better artist to make this image (i.e. get rid of the horrible photoshop of the glass breaking), that would make a pretty cool album cover on its own.
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A lawsuit resulted in a King County Superior Court ruling that each side could use the same name until the case went to trial or was settled.
“One thing that’s really important for people to understand is that this never went to court,” he said by phone after returning from a show in Louisiana.
Yeah, minus that time it went to court from opening to closing arguments with a ruling. :lol
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I hope we can finally get our long awaited Portnoy/Tate side project, "Rejected: A marriage gone wrong" with special guest Dave Mustaine.
I'm going to hell for laughing so hard at this. :lol
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Press release regarding the settlement and the state of the band moving forward (from the Queensryche Face Book page):
FULL PRESS RELEASE: A Reinvigorated Queensr˙che Starts the Writing Process for Their New Album, Tentatively Due Early Summer 2015 via Century Media Records:
With the Queensr˙che canvas wiped completely clean and the band’s easel the strongest and most stable it’s been in years, Eddie Jackson, Todd LaTorre, Parker Lundgren, Scott Rockenfield and Michael Wilton forge ahead to create yet another QR masterpiece. The band has already begun writing new material for the follow up to their critically acclaimed self-titled 2013 Century Media Records release, Queensr˙che. The new album is tentatively scheduled for release in early summer 2015.
"The Queensr˙che internal dynamic has certainly changed in terms of musicianship. It’s more of a cohesive team and the chemistry we have now is making what we can do creatively limitless. For Queensr˙che, it was always about being able to write together as a band. We didn’t have that for a long time but now that it’s back, we feel extremely liberated,” states founding guitarist Michael Wilton. "We’ve already begun the writing process for the next album and have a few songs demoed that we feel really good about. We’re taking the songs in the classic Queensr˙che direction but maybe a little more progressive and heavier at times. The thing is, you never know what you really have until it’s complete. We can’t wait for the final outcome. Writing with such a dynamic group of individuals has been nothing short of amazing."
Queensr˙che recently reached a settlement in their dispute over the ownership of the Queensr˙che name and brand. Century Media is pleased to announce that Eddie Jackson, Scott Rockenfield and Michael Wilton have successfully agreed to purchase Geoff Tate’s portion of the Queensr˙che name. The band will buy out their former lead singer’s share of the Queensr˙che corporation while allowing him the ability to be the only one to perform Operation: Mindcrime and Operation: Mindcrime II in their entirety. He will no longer have use of the TriRyche logo or any other album images aside from the Mindcrime releases. He can only refer to himself as the “Original Lead Singer of Queensr˙che or “Formerly of Queensr˙che" for a period of two years and that text must be at least 50% smaller than his name in all materials. After this two year period passes, he can only refer to himself as Geoff Tate with no mention of Queensr˙che at all. Geoff Tate will be able to finish any confirmed dates billed for his Queensr˙che lineup scheduled to terminate on August 31st, 2014. As of September 1st, there will be only one Queensr˙che entity and that will consist of Eddie Jackson, Todd LaTorre, Parker Lundgren, Scott Rockenfield and Michael Wilton. This lineup will continue to perform selections from their entire musical catalog including songs from Operation: Mindcrime. The band will be able to use all TriRyche logos and previous album artwork for any purposes as needed by the corporation.
Queensr˙che is:
Todd La Torre - Vocals
Michael Wilton - Guitars
Parker Lundgren - Guitars
Eddie Jackson - Bass
Scott Rockenfield - Drums
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"[Tate] can only refer to himself as the “Original Lead Singer of Queensr˙che or “Formerly of Queensr˙che" for a period of two years and that text must be at least 50% smaller than his name in all materials."
(https://assets.blabbermouth.net.s3.amazonaws.com/media/geofftatefarewelltour.jpg)
Well.
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That sounds about 81% fair.
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"[Tate] can only refer to himself as the “Original Lead Singer of Queensr˙che or “Formerly of Queensr˙che" for a period of two years and that text must be at least 50% smaller than his name in all materials."
Well.
It may be referring to how he was advertising before. Which was indicating that he was part of queensryche still and it was the original band. Anyone can do a fair well tour and star in it.
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In Tate's delusional mind, he got to save a little face by being allowed to call himself "The voice of Queensryche" and getting theatrical Mindcrime, and the real band get to wash their hands clean of Tate without losing anything of real value. Tate will be happy for a little bit until he realizes he got the short end and will find some way to weasel some headlines again.
This was my thought. Queensryche essentially gave up nothing. They're never going to play ANYTHING from OM2, and I don't know why they'd ever want to do OM in it's entirety. Why take up over 50% of a show with one album? Let Tate have that. The only thing I wish they hadn't conceded was allowing him to use Queensryche at all. If anything, it should've been the 'Original' voice of Queensryche (or 'Founding' or something like that). He's not the voice of Queensryche.
I agree that lyrics and concepts can be important, but put O:M's lyrics on Dedicated to Chaos and you'd still have an album no one would listen to.
Well said.
Excited to hear a new album. I spun QR last night, and damn it's good.
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I wish we had some definitive statement like that regarding DT & MP.
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I wish we had some definitive statement like that regarding DT & MP.
Even though the DT/MP split was not on the friendliest of scales, it probably paled in comparison to the acrimony that exists between Queensryche and Tate, so there was no need for a statement from DT. Had Portnoy gone through with the lawsuit he briefly considered, it likely would have gotten ugly and more public, and a statement probably would have eventually come out about a settlement, but since they settled it (relatively) amicably and privately, there was no need.
In Tate's delusional mind, he got to save a little face by being allowed to call himself "The voice of Queensryche" and getting theatrical Mindcrime, and the real band get to wash their hands clean of Tate without losing anything of real value. Tate will be happy for a little bit until he realizes he got the short end and will find some way to weasel some headlines again.
This was my thought. Queensryche essentially gave up nothing. They're never going to play ANYTHING from OM2, and I don't know why they'd ever want to do OM in it's entirety. Why take up over 50% of a show with one album? Let Tate have that. The only thing I wish they hadn't conceded was allowing him to use Queensryche at all. If anything, it should've been the 'Original' voice of Queensryche (or 'Founding' or something like that). He's not the voice of Queensryche.
That was a concession they probably had to make. You can't get everything you want in a split like this, and the band still won this in a big way.
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I wish we had some definitive statement like that regarding DT & MP.
Even though the DT/MP split was not on the friendliest of scales, it probably paled in comparison to the acrimony that exists between Queensryche and Tate, so there was no need for a statement from DT. Had Portnoy gone through with the lawsuit he briefly considered, it likely would have gotten ugly and more public, and a statement probably would have eventually come out about a settlement, but since they settled it (relatively) amicably and privately, there was no need.
Well that is all accurate, but more importantly, Mike Portnoy did not go out and form a band claiming to be Dream Theater. Whatever people may not have liked about the split, this was NOT a case where Mike had tarnished the band's legacy and was actively trying to create confusion about which of two bands is the real Dream Theater. It has been crystal clear from day 1 that Dream Theater is continuing as a viable entity and that Mike is pursuing various other interests that are NOT Dream Theater. There really is no comparison between Queensryche's situation and Dream Theater's.
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Imagine if MP did try to form a DT knockoff band! lol
They would have to play all of the easy stuff because I doubt any good musician would step into that pile.
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I wish we had some definitive statement like that regarding DT & MP.
Even though the DT/MP split was not on the friendliest of scales, it probably paled in comparison to the acrimony that exists between Queensryche and Tate, so there was no need for a statement from DT. Had Portnoy gone through with the lawsuit he briefly considered, it likely would have gotten ugly and more public, and a statement probably would have eventually come out about a settlement, but since they settled it (relatively) amicably and privately, there was no need.
Well that is all accurate, but more importantly, Mike Portnoy did not go out and form a band claiming to be Dream Theater. Whatever people may not have liked about the split, this was NOT a case where Mike had tarnished the band's legacy and was actively trying to create confusion about which of two bands is the real Dream Theater. It has been crystal clear from day 1 that Dream Theater is continuing as a viable entity and that Mike is pursuing various other interests that are NOT Dream Theater. There really is no comparison between Queensryche's situation and Dream Theater's.
Very true.
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I wish we had some definitive statement like that regarding DT & MP.
Even though the DT/MP split was not on the friendliest of scales, it probably paled in comparison to the acrimony that exists between Queensryche and Tate, so there was no need for a statement from DT. Had Portnoy gone through with the lawsuit he briefly considered, it likely would have gotten ugly and more public, and a statement probably would have eventually come out about a settlement, but since they settled it (relatively) amicably and privately, there was no need.
Well that is all accurate, but more importantly, Mike Portnoy did not go out and form a band claiming to be Dream Theater. Whatever people may not have liked about the split, this was NOT a case where Mike had tarnished the band's legacy and was actively trying to create confusion about which of two bands is the real Dream Theater. It has been crystal clear from day 1 that Dream Theater is continuing as a viable entity and that Mike is pursuing various other interests that are NOT Dream Theater. There really is no comparison between Queensryche's situation and Dream Theater's.
Obviously. It's just me being nosey.
Queensryche's purpose for the statement was all about drawing a distinction on the name of the band.
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I'm pretty sure all the DT Clone Prog Metal bands out there can play DT's stuff. In fact, they should all just be tribute bands cause most of the ones I've heard can't write for shit, but they can play like no one else.
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Way to go QR! Would love to hear OM I with LaTorre on vox....Anyways, this is a great day for QR fans. The S/T release was one of my favorites last year and I keep coming back to it every month or so. Has aged very well for me.
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To be frank, my biggest problem with the real Queensryche going forward is to see if they can now finally produce on promises.
The last album was good, but it was short, sounded like shit, and certainly not up to par with the classic albums. They've all been talking about how excited they are about NEW material and moving FORWARD. If that's the case I want to see more new material in the live sets and a better next album. Otherwise they are, frankly, a band that has battled hard to become a nostalgia act. A very very good one, but one nonetheless.
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Very true, Nick. They talked about having all of this pent-up creativity that was stifled for years, so let's hear it.
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I agree Nick, and I've been saying that for a while now. Tate or not, THEY have made some shitty albums in the last 10-15 years, and really, the last one with LaTorre is just OK. Yeah, it's better than what they've done in a long time (though I thought American Soldier was ok), but I find most QR fans waaaayyy overrating the thing.
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The last album was good, but it was short, sounded like shit, and certainly not up to par with the classic albums
Totally agree. I consider myself a pretty big QR fan, and I listened to the album twice and put it on the shelf. The mastering ruined any enjoyment for me. They need to get everything right this time and give some length to their songs.
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"[Tate] can only refer to himself as the “Original Lead Singer of Queensr˙che or “Formerly of Queensr˙che" for a period of two years and that text must be at least 50% smaller than his name in all materials."
Well.
That's from 1st September.
"Geoff Tate will be able to finish any confirmed dates billed for his Queensr˙che lineup scheduled to terminate on August 31st, 2014. As of September 1st, there will be only one Queensr˙che entity and that will consist of Eddie Jackson, Todd LaTorre, Parker Lundgren, Scott Rockenfield and Michael Wilton. "
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Great results from the court case! Looking forward to what the band does from this point on
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"[Tate] can only refer to himself as the “Original Lead Singer of Queensr˙che or “Formerly of Queensr˙che" for a period of two years and that text must be at least 50% smaller than his name in all materials."
Well.
That's from 1st September.
"Geoff Tate will be able to finish any confirmed dates billed for his Queensr˙che lineup scheduled to terminate on August 31st, 2014. As of September 1st, there will be only one Queensr˙che entity and that will consist of Eddie Jackson, Todd LaTorre, Parker Lundgren, Scott Rockenfield and Michael Wilton. "
That's a nice loophole right there from Mr. Tate to expose. One big last "score", it seems, obviously.
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I'm really surprised at the 'nostalgia act' sentiment. Maybe I'm wrong, but my opinion was that they took it on the chin when DeGarmo left, and then got dragged to the mat during the '00s by the Tates' (Geoffy and Susie) antics. I account their horrible output to that - not the fact that they were 'done', or their best days were behind them (ala true nostalgia acts the likes Motley Crue, Van Halen, or Kiss). Sure, DeGarmo is still out of the picture, but I think they've got something to prove, and all the capabilities to do it now.
I don't fault them at all for touring from this album just on the first four albums. I felt it more of a case for them to play their best material, reconnect with and reinvigorate the fan base - not so much a matter of them relying on that material. I don't recall people accusing Maiden of being a Nostalgia act for the Somewhere Back in Time tour?
Sure, I'll reserve my final judgment until the next album is out, but I've got every reason to be optimistic about the future of the band ... something I haven't felt since Promised Land - cuz I still think HITNF is a stinker.
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I'm with Chad on this one. Listen to Tribe when Chris recorded with them. That's a good album. It was the BS from Tate that changed their career path.
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I'm really surprised at the 'nostalgia act' sentiment. Maybe I'm wrong, but my opinion was that they took it on the chin when DeGarmo left, and then got dragged to the mat during the '00s by the Tates' (Geoffy and Susie) antics. I account their horrible output to that - not the fact that they were 'done', or their best days were behind them (ala true nostalgia acts the likes Motley Crue, Van Halen, or Kiss). Sure, DeGarmo is still out of the picture, but I think they've got something to prove, and all the capabilities to do it now.
I don't fault them at all for touring from this album just on the first four albums. I felt it more of a case for them to play their best material, reconnect with and reinvigorate the fan base - not so much a matter of them relying on that material. I don't recall people accusing Maiden of being a Nostalgia act for the Somewhere Back in Time tour?
Sure, I'll reserve my final judgment until the next album is out, but I've got every reason to be optimistic about the future of the band ... something I haven't felt since Promised Land - cuz I still think HITNF is a stinker.
I understand your point, and there is a reason I said they need to start playing more new music and the next album better impress. It's all them now, time to show they deserve what they've won.
As for Maiden, I'm surprised you would even go there. Sure, that one tour was a nostalgia tour, but they have a recent history of consistent, good, fresh sounding new albums that they go out and play the hell out of, especially in the case of A Matter of Life and Death.
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As for Maiden, I'm surprised you would even go there. Sure, that one tour was a nostalgia tour, but they have a recent history of consistent, good, fresh sounding new albums that they go out and play the hell out of, especially in the case of A Matter of Life and Death.
Fair enough... perhaps 'twas not the best of comparisons.
If they do put out a stinker this next album, then I will concede that they'll likely be relegated to nostalgia act. I just ain't putting them there yet.
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As for Maiden, I'm surprised you would even go there. Sure, that one tour was a nostalgia tour, but they have a recent history of consistent, good, fresh sounding new albums that they go out and play the hell out of, especially in the case of A Matter of Life and Death.
Fair enough... perhaps 'twas not the best of comparisons.
If they do put out a stinker this next album, then I will concede that they'll likely be relegated to nostalgia act. I just ain't putting them there yet.
And neither am I, with the court case looming over their head I've said previously that they almost have to play things conservative and safe. Now though they have free reign, they gotta come out swinging and show that Queensryche is truly alive again, and not just a corpse that's wiggling after the paddles have hit them.
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If they let Todd write fully as a member I think they will have something worthy of the legacy of the good Ryche albums. The song he wrote for Crimson Glory sounded awesome and that was in demo version too, sadly it was never polished.
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He did on the last album. I see no reason to believe that will not continue.
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Did Tate copyright his Mindcrime story? If not, wouldn't it be property of the label like the songs?
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Did Tate copyright his Mindcrime story? If not, wouldn't it be property of the label like the songs?
Huh. That's a very interesting question that deserves an answer. What did the record labels think about all of this "drama" and lawsuit anyway and which side did they favor?
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Did Tate copyright his Mindcrime story? If not, wouldn't it be property of the label like the songs?
The label owns the recording only. Songwriters sign contracts with publishers for the rights to the written form of the music (lyrics, sheet music, tabs, etc).
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I remember Todd saying he wants to do a epic roads to madness type of song. Hopefully that idea (along with better production) makes it over to their next album.
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Best news I've read in a while
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-plans-to-disappear-for-awhile-after-his-version-of-queensryche-completes-farewell-tour/
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As much as I think he is a douche. I think it would be awesome if he disappeared for like 2-3 years, quit smoking and just started hammering the vocal exercises. Then came back and just blow everyone's minds; that won't happen though. If anything he'll come back worse.
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As much as I think he is a douche. I think it would be awesome if he disappeared for like 2-3 years, quit smoking and just started hammering the vocal exercises. Then came back and just blow everyone's minds; that won't happen though. If anything he'll come back worse.
There are a few people I would suggest do the same thing. *cough**cough*Dokken*cough**cough*
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Despite his public posturing about playing to sold out arenas, which we all know is a lie, it's likely that Tate knows he is not much of a draw without the Queensryche name, and him taking a few years off is basically him not wanting to tour when he knows he will lose money.
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Best news I've read in a while
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-plans-to-disappear-for-awhile-after-his-version-of-queensryche-completes-farewell-tour/
I have my doubts about how long he will be out of sight. Remember, he can only use the "formerly of Queensryche" subtitle for 2 years. After that, it's gone and out of his reach forever, so if anything, I would expect him to try to milk his version of "Queensryche" as much as he can before his 2 years are up.
Also, I was browsing the comments on that Blabbermouth article and this one legitimately made me laugh out loud :rollin :
Postpartum depression. Good luck sweet bald comedic prince. We'll miss your pedantic rants about how you created music and stuff.
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A video of Geoff Tate's vaudeville show.
Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-queensryche-singer-geoff-tates-rock-and-vaudeville-performance-captured-on-video/
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(https://stuffasiseeit.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/patrick-stewart-double-facepalm.png)
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(https://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/nicolas-cage-laughing.gif)
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(https://gunshyassassin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/geoff.jpg)
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(https://24.media.tumblr.com/1a96717e5d2efbfea8e5914f6765d2c2/tumblr_mt9qx4yxX51qiepego1_500.gif)
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Wow..just Wow!
An eye patch? Really? I needed two!
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A video of Geoff Tate's vaudeville show.
Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-queensryche-singer-geoff-tates-rock-and-vaudeville-performance-captured-on-video/
What the actual fuck?
God, what the fuck...
I think I now have cancer, from watching that video. Dude just does not have a clue.
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You know, when the EP came out, I thought it was the freshest metal going. When Warning came out, I thought it was one of the the greatest fuc#ing metal album I've heard. I cannot believe that is the same guy that sang on those albums. That is a classic voice from my youth. I mean what a fucking joke.
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Wow..just Wow!
An eye patch? Really? I needed two!
I needed 2 ear patches too...
That was fucking awful.
I used to love this guy. Admittedly that was a long time ago before he destroyed my favourite band. Now he's just a tool.
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The eye patch didn't bother me but the doo rag under the fedora makes me want to call Milan Lucic and ask him to nut shot Geoff.
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What's even sader and probably the ultimate disgrace, is that at one point in my life I actually considered him one of my favorite singers.
I'm so ashamed...
(https://www.software.ac.uk/sites/default/files/images/content/Ashamed.jpg)
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I think we all did but his action are what is driving us all away.
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I think we all did but his action are what is driving us all away.
Yup. To think that When I thought of Geoff Tate, I would conjure up words like awesome, unbelievable, incredible and supremely talented.
I think that's what is most frustrating. I know I was very invested in Queensryche and it meant a lot to me. I feel like Tate has made it all seem like such a farce.
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Dead on Tim. That's why I'm so glad they moved on. I felt the same about Steve Perry and Dennis DeYoung. you can hijack a band only so long.
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That was terrible
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There was a period where I couldn't believe how each album I listen to is better than the previous one which I thought was impossible. I didn't listen to anything else for months, especially Mindcrime-Empire-Promised Land. I was determined to get a tattoo of the band's logo. In a rare moment of responsible thinking back then I said to myself that I shouldwait 5 years and if I still want it - i'll do it. I've never had the desire to get a tat of any sort since.
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That video was simply unbelievable, in a very bad way. Man, his voice is shot.
7:33 ROFLMFAO!!!!!!
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Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-queensryche-singer-geoff-tate-metal-as-a-genre-is-incredibly-limiting/
Former QUEENSRźCHE Singer GEOFF TATE: 'Metal, As A Genre, Is Incredibly Limiting'
In a brand new interview with The Rock River Times, former QUEENSRźCHE singer Geoff Tate spoke about the songwriting process during the band's earlier years while original guitarist Chris DeGarmo was still a member of the group.
"When you have a band, that group of people comes together for a number of different reasons," Geoff said. "In our case, it was musically. Chris and I had a very strong, clear vision of what we wanted to do musically, and that vision was really about not having boundaries as to what we created. We wanted to write and present music that we imagined, rather than what other people expected or thought we should do. That gave us a real positive jumping-off point for the band and everything we did that followed.
"We never really wrote records to conform to what other people or other bands did; we wrote records that we loved and felt strongly about. That was always Chris' and my vision, and being the kind of personalities that we are, Chris and I, we just did that, and the other guys in the band fell in line with that. They were comfortable with that setup, and that's how we operated for many, many years. It wasn't like we were dictators or land barons keeping the serfs out of the fields or anything like that. [laughs] It was not like that. It was more that it worked well, we enjoyed what we did, I'm speaking of Chris and I, and it worked, so the other guys in the band were fine with that for a long, long period of time."
He continued: "It was never a democracy on the creative end of things… It was always a matter of, 'OK, who has the idea that everybody thinks is the strongest?' If you didn't have an opinion on it, well, then, you didn't have an opinion on it. And most of the time, that was the case. There just wasn't a strong opposition to anything, and, to be honest, that's still the way it was all the way up to, oh, 2012 with the split. It was always, 'Oh, OK, great idea. Let's run with that. Do you have anything to add? No? OK, well, let's go with that, then. [laughs]"
Asked if he thinks some of the fans misinterpreted his comments about not being a "metal guy," Tate replied: "Oh, yeah, I'm sure. People read whatever meaning they wanna read into whatever statements are made.
"The way I feel about 'metal' is I just don't like genres in the first place. I think genres are limiting and are kind of like wearing handcuffs for a person who's a writer or who is creative, because that means there is this box that you have to conform to.
"Like I said earlier, Chris and I were never interested in being confined by other people's vision. Our vision was the one we wanted to explore in, and I think that's a very healthy place to be.
"Metal, as a genre, is incredibly limiting — it explores a very few emotions, angst and violence being predominant. Once you've written from that point of view, there's only so many other ways that you can fashion and write music in order to express yourself. That's what I've always been interested in, is exploring all those different facets and all those different emotions of humanity through music. We just didn't feel it was necessary to only spend time creatively exploring anger and violence. [laughs]"
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He clearly has no idea what he's talking about.
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Danny, only angst and violence. I've been listening to metal all wrong for the last 15 year.
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As much as I think he is a douche. I think it would be awesome if he disappeared for like 2-3 years, quit smoking and just started hammering the vocal exercises. Then came back and just blow everyone's minds; that won't happen though. If anything he'll come back worse.
There are a few people I would suggest do the same thing. *cough**cough*Dokken*cough**cough*
I don't think the two situations are comparable, actually. I could be wrong, but I think Tate could sing well again if he got some coaching and changed a lot of bad habits. Don, on the other hand, is a different story. I think he has probably permanently damaged his voice beyond repair. And with the type of singing he does, I don't think he could fake it to even remotely turn in a passable performance.
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We just didn't feel it was necessary to only spend time creatively exploring anger and violence
lol, says the guy that spits and pulls weapons on people.
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Can't you see, he was trying to protect the other guys from himself!
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I think we all did but his action are what is driving us all away.
Yup. To think that When I thought of Geoff Tate, I would conjure up words like awesome, unbelievable, incredible and supremely talented.
I think that's what is most frustrating. I know I was very invested in Queensryche and it meant a lot to me. I feel like Tate has made it all seem like such a farce.
well GT seems to be inVESTed in whatever the fuck he's doing, so
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As much as I think he is a douche. I think it would be awesome if he disappeared for like 2-3 years, quit smoking and just started hammering the vocal exercises. Then came back and just blow everyone's minds; that won't happen though. If anything he'll come back worse.
There are a few people I would suggest do the same thing. *cough**cough*Dokken*cough**cough*
I don't think the two situations are comparable, actually. I could be wrong, but I think Tate could sing well again if he got some coaching and changed a lot of bad habits. Don, on the other hand, is a different story. I think he has probably permanently damaged his voice beyond repair. And with the type of singing he does, I don't think he could fake it to even remotely turn in a passable performance.
Am I missing something? I've never listened to them before but I just listened to Lightnin' Strikes Again and Broken Bones, and he sounded great. Broken Bones wasn't sung as high but didn't sound bad. Is he just not singing high anymore? And what is wrong with his singing that would damage his voice?
Again only basing these questions off of two songs.
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lol Geoff Tate
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"Chris and I... Chris and I... Chris and I..."
Does Tate sing Empire thinking "this is a great song Chris and I wrote"? Douche.
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As much as I think he is a douche. I think it would be awesome if he disappeared for like 2-3 years, quit smoking and just started hammering the vocal exercises. Then came back and just blow everyone's minds; that won't happen though. If anything he'll come back worse.
There are a few people I would suggest do the same thing. *cough**cough*Dokken*cough**cough*
I don't think the two situations are comparable, actually. I could be wrong, but I think Tate could sing well again if he got some coaching and changed a lot of bad habits. Don, on the other hand, is a different story. I think he has probably permanently damaged his voice beyond repair. And with the type of singing he does, I don't think he could fake it to even remotely turn in a passable performance.
Am I missing something? I've never listened to them before but I just listened to Lightnin' Strikes Again and Broken Bones, and he sounded great. Broken Bones wasn't sung as high but didn't sound bad. Is he just not singing high anymore? And what is wrong with his singing that would damage his voice?
Again only basing these questions off of two songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDveKxl7Ohs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFDDjXfAD5Q
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Contrast that first link with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2inY0zT33Q
I haven't followed closely, so I don't know specifics, but I remember seeing Don about 5 years or so ago doing an accoustic slot opening for another band, and his voice sounded shot. Don even commented on stage during some in-between-song banter that the years of drinking, smoking, and partying had caught up with him. Maybe he was overstating it as part of his onstage schtick, but I took it at face value. If that is all true, it just seems like even with some rehab and coaching, while he could get some of it back, he has lost quite a bit that is gone for good. I am sure that with multiple takes, punching in, and other studio magic, he can sound a lot better in studio. But I think he has lost much of his gift.
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As much as I think he is a douche. I think it would be awesome if he disappeared for like 2-3 years, quit smoking and just started hammering the vocal exercises. Then came back and just blow everyone's minds; that won't happen though. If anything he'll come back worse.
There are a few people I would suggest do the same thing. *cough**cough*Dokken*cough**cough*
I don't think the two situations are comparable, actually. I could be wrong, but I think Tate could sing well again if he got some coaching and changed a lot of bad habits. Don, on the other hand, is a different story. I think he has probably permanently damaged his voice beyond repair. And with the type of singing he does, I don't think he could fake it to even remotely turn in a passable performance.
Am I missing something? I've never listened to them before but I just listened to Lightnin' Strikes Again and Broken Bones, and he sounded great. Broken Bones wasn't sung as high but didn't sound bad. Is he just not singing high anymore? And what is wrong with his singing that would damage his voice?
Again only basing these questions off of two songs.
He's not singing with any power or passion now. There's no range. A bit like Rob Halford on those new tracks.
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As much as I think he is a douche. I think it would be awesome if he disappeared for like 2-3 years, quit smoking and just started hammering the vocal exercises. Then came back and just blow everyone's minds; that won't happen though. If anything he'll come back worse.
There are a few people I would suggest do the same thing. *cough**cough*Dokken*cough**cough*
I don't think the two situations are comparable, actually. I could be wrong, but I think Tate could sing well again if he got some coaching and changed a lot of bad habits. Don, on the other hand, is a different story. I think he has probably permanently damaged his voice beyond repair. And with the type of singing he does, I don't think he could fake it to even remotely turn in a passable performance.
I think Tate is in a similar position. As far as I know he's been smoking and drinking since the early 90s, if not before that. And you can hear it in the live performances but he still put on a good show because he was still young. Now? I'm not so sure, he should just stick to singing things like his solo album, at least his lows are still OK. But I'm not a voice expert, just my two cents.
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The pathetic thing with Don, is that one the last album, the backup harmonies were too high so he got Mark Boals to do all of them. So, the album is almost feels like a Allen/Lande thing.
Contrast that first link with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2inY0zT33Q
Wow, just wow.
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Former QUEENSRŸCHE Singer GEOFF TATE: 'Metal, As A Genre, Is Incredibly Limiting'
...says the man who limits himself to wearing the same vest all the time :P
BTW, after 2 years of following the media circus I'm finally becoming a QR fan :D I'm about to buy some of their stuff soon.
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Make sure you buy merchandise from the right one. ;)
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I hope someone writes a book about the Queensryche lawsuit. One of the most fascinating things ever.
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They could call it Queens and Thieves! :yarr
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Former QUEENSRźCHE Singer GEOFF TATE: 'Metal, As A Genre, Is Incredibly Limiting'
...says the man who limits himself to wearing the same vest all the time :P
BTW, after 2 years of following the media circus I'm finally becoming a QR fan :D I'm about to buy some of their stuff soon.
Well Geof, I was told "only boring people get bored". The criticism hasn't been about the lyrical content (though there have been some horrors), its the crap songs and the lack of a QR vibe.
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Both he and the other guys disappeared for me a long time ago.
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So, I just got told by Todd LaTorre, haha: https://www.facebook.com/QueensrycheOfficial/posts/475705112562646?comment_id=475708699228954&offset=0&total_comments=11
Serves me right for misreading the headline. But man, what a cool dude to just reply to fans like that. I never had anything against him, but he just earned major bonus points in my book! :tup
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I scrolled past that and thought MAN CAN THAT GUY EVEN READ, I didn't know it was you :lol
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I must have been deleted, I don't see it.
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I think it's pretty cool that he wants to do the songs in their original tuning, but I wouldn't be bothered if they did decide to down tune in the future. The most important thing to me as a fan is that the melody lines are maintained and that the songs are performed well. I've always thought that it's natural for singers to lose some of their range with age. Even though Todd is relatively new to the scene he's not a kid in his early/mid 20's.
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Agreed. But at the same time, I think it is important for them to make a statement in every way possible that they are just fine without Tate, and this is a very strong way of doing so.
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I just hope Todd doesn't fuck up his voice from straining too much, he hasn't sung in such amounts and suddenly since QR he's touring and screaming his ass off. Wouldn't mind toning it down just a bit, but I guess he knows what he's doing.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I scrolled past that and thought MAN CAN THAT GUY EVEN READ, I didn't know it was you :lol
Shut up! :'(
I was sleep deprived! I don't finish reading sentences when I'm in such a state!
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I scrolled past that and thought MAN CAN THAT GUY EVEN READ, I didn't know it was you :lol
Shut up! :'(
I was sleep deprived! I don't finish reading sentences when I'm in such a state!
Didn't know (or forgot) you were in this neck of the woods. You should've seen them at the Phoenix last year... it was like show 3 of the LaTorre era, and fuckin unbelievable.
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Didn't know (or forgot) you were in this neck of the woods. You should've seen them at the Phoenix last year... it was like show 3 of the LaTorre era, and fuckin unbelievable.
Yup! Unfortunately, I've been a bit out of touch with Ryche. Actually, I was never a hardcore fan, or anything, so I haven't been keeping a close eye on their touring and whatnot, and only kind of caught up with their whole situation at the latter half of last year. But I would love to go out and see one of their shows.
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This was just posted on YouTube a few days ago. QR on MTV's "Headbanger's Ball" in 1994: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO6tg2_pbRo
EDIT: Geoff smoking on camera at the 13-minute mark! :-\
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Cool video.........it cuts out before we find out how many R's Ricki gives Promised Land. Geoff comes across as being too cool for the entire segment.
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Riki Rachtman is worse than I remember.
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Nobody in that entire segment, including Rachtman, really looks like they want to be there.
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Nobody in that entire segment, including Rachtman, really looks like they want to be there.
Maybe Geoff spit on him right before filming.
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Chris talking about the speakers :lol
Its like "yeah, Geoff sucks", "I'll probably quit the band soon"
And its amazing that as disinterested as they all seem, the just got done making my favorite QR record.
And I don't know if anyone else saw it, but around 11 minutes there's a super quick clip of Lie.
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When Rachtman said that "Disconnected" would fit in well with Operation Mindcrime, you could tell Geoff wasn't impressed with that analogy.
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When Rachtman said that "Disconnected" would fit in well with Operation Mindcrime, you could tell Geoff wasn't impressed with that analogy.
Or he was just being an aloof jerk. I would say that is just as likely.
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Riki Rachtman is worse than I remember.
Yeah, being Australian I've never really seen Headbangers Ball at all, but that guy is fucking terrible. The whole video was really awkward though. And the dude is making fun out of coffee and has no idea what the fuck a Americano or Macchiatto is lol.
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I just stumbled across the Unplugged in New York version of Silent Lucidity.
Holy mother of God :omg:
Its been a while since I heard something so beautiful. I've always loved SL, but that version is incredible and I didn't even know they had done an Unplugged in New york.
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I always hoped that unplugged show got an official release. Great show!
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Yeah me too.
After seeing the video, I immediately went on Amazon to buy it, but sadly it just wasn't released. :'(
But I did just watch the whole thing and it makes perfect sense why it wasn't released. They had to stop like for 10 minutes in between every song for dumb stuff, like makeup or messing with the instruments. They don't just play consistently through from beginning to end like some of the other unplugged shows, so I can understand why it wasn't released. The whole show is a mess.
But what a shame, because holy shit, this show is amazing. Despite the delays inbetween songs.
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Yeah me too.
After seeing the video, I immediately went on Amazon to buy it, but sadly it just wasn't released. :'(
But I did just watch the whole thing and it makes perfect sense why it wasn't released. They had to stop like for 10 minutes in between every song for dumb stuff, like makeup or messing with the instruments. They don't just play consistently through from beginning to end like some of the other unplugged shows, so I can understand why it wasn't released. The whole show is a mess.
But what a shame, because holy shit, this show is amazing. Despite the delays inbetween songs.
I'm sure they could have hired an editing crew.
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Yeah me too.
After seeing the video, I immediately went on Amazon to buy it, but sadly it just wasn't released. :'(
But I did just watch the whole thing and it makes perfect sense why it wasn't released. They had to stop like for 10 minutes in between every song for dumb stuff, like makeup or messing with the instruments. They don't just play consistently through from beginning to end like some of the other unplugged shows, so I can understand why it wasn't released. The whole show is a mess.
But what a shame, because holy shit, this show is amazing. Despite the delays inbetween songs.
I'm sure they could have hired an editing crew.
I thought the same thing, but watch it some time. It is one hot mess.
At some points they are even stopping mid song. :-[
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Riki Rachtman is worse than I remember.
He was a lot better than his predecessor, Adam Curry.
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Cool video.........it cuts out before we find out how many R's Ricki gives Promised Land. Geoff comes across as being too cool for the entire segment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQBxBwgG7c
He never gives it to them even when you see the whole thing...
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Tate's new merch for Whole History Of Rock Extravaganza - clever and classy, isn't it? ::)
https://tinmanmerchandising.com/product_info.php?cPath=402_403&products_id=2326#.U6bkdLHm7D8
https://tinmanmerchandising.com/product_info.php?cPath=402_437&products_id=2323#.U6bkdbHm7D8
BTW, Rage for Order is a great album :metal
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F.U. Geoff ..............redefining the word "douche" seems to be his full time job these days.
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Disgusting
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Tate's new merch for Whole History Of Rock Extravaganza - clever and classy, isn't it? ::)
https://tinmanmerchandising.com/product_info.php?cPath=402_403&products_id=2326#.U6bkdLHm7D8
https://tinmanmerchandising.com/product_info.php?cPath=402_437&products_id=2323#.U6bkdbHm7D8
BTW, Rage for Order is a great album :metal
Just when you think he couldn't get any more loopy, he tops himself.
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Tate's new merch for Whole History Of Rock Extravaganza - clever and classy, isn't it? ::)
https://tinmanmerchandising.com/product_info.php?cPath=402_403&products_id=2326#.U6bkdLHm7D8
https://tinmanmerchandising.com/product_info.php?cPath=402_437&products_id=2323#.U6bkdbHm7D8
BTW, Rage for Order is a great album :metal
Just when you think he couldn't get any more loopy, he tops himself.
At this point he probably should.
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That offends each and every one of my sensibilities.
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Honestly, I can't think of anyone in the rock/metal world who has been a greater disappointment to me than Geoff Tate. Not only as a performer/vocalist, but as a human being.
He was here back in January with his version of Queensryche, and for the first time since the "Rage For Order" tour, I refused to attend a show he was involved with. Many of my friends went to the show, and claimed he sounded better than ever, which I and anyone with fully functional ears knows is a crock of shit. The Geoff Tate from the Empire tour and the Geoff Tate today are two completely different singers in every aspect.
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Let's just take a brief moment to remember what once was....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OH772pFl2s
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Let's just take a brief moment to remember what once was....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OH772pFl2s
Its a shame...........what an amazing voice..........that's a great concert!
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I like the Tokyo performance better, if not only for the cheesy mic swinging.
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Basically any live performance you can find on YouTube of Queensryche between 1985 and 1992 brings a tear of lament to they eye. They were just immense in that period of their career.
They were still excellent on the Promised Land tour but no-one should ever be subjected to Geoff Tate clad in naught but hot pants and a head mic.
After that their live performances started going stale, in general, and the slow, interminable slide into mediocrity of Tate's voice became too readily apparent. He managed to just about hold it together through the 2000s but his voice has just gone to shit in the last two or three years.
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Let's just take a brief moment to remember what once was....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OH772pFl2s
Its a shame...........what an amazing voice..........that's a great concert!
They were so fuc#ing good.
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Let's stop lamenting over the past and look towards the future, with the next QR album coming out next year! I'm digging the comments the band have said about it so far!
You have already been demoing the new stuff for the next album and some vocals have already been done. So, at this stage would you describe to us the material compared to the previous one?
La Torre : Obviously the material does change, sometimes quite significantly from the demo to what you hear on the album. So, it might be a little premature for us to tell you what it sounds like. I can tell you that a couple of the songs that we’ve worked have progressive elements, almost OPERATION MINDCRIME era or a little later. But they don’t sound dated and melody. The most important thing that we focus on first is melody. I mean for Michael too, but for all of us melody is the most important aspect, and there are a lot of bands that are great instrumentalists but not great songwriters. And to me personally, a great song has you singing that melody. No matter if it’s heavy or light, a good melody always wins. So, that’s our main focus especially when Michael writes something, “Hey, this is great.” It can have a heaviness to it, by the time I get it I’ll say, “Hey! Check this melody out.” It might soften it up a bit. So, how can I make it a little more aggressive? How do I sing it? How do I phrase it? What are the lyrics that are being told? So, it’s a marriage between the two.
Wilton : But I think there is a balance, true we write for the song but it’s also bringing back the element of musicianship. Making the songs interesting to listen to, for people, for musicians as well. Not in the sense like Dream Theater I think, but it’s more… The old albums that we used to do, Chris and I used to intertwine guitar parts that almost were songs in themselves. And trying to bring that back, make the parts, everything interesting. That when you go back and you listen to it, you hear something different every time you hear it. I think that’s kind of where a lot of the fans want us to go on a lot… It’s like we always strive for that. It’s like, you don’t want to write something and listen to it once and then put it aside, just work on the next one. Hopefully you want to listen to it a few times and pick out everything in it.
https://www.metal-rules.com/metalnews/2014/06/20/queensryche-todd-la-torre-michael-wilton/
There's other stuff in there that I'm digging too; the band seems to be planning to have a much bigger tour next year with their next album. I'm hoping that this will also mean that they'll mix it up a bit more with their setlist next year too and incorporate more songs from the s/t album and the new one! :metal
While Mindcrime isn't my favorite QR album as a whole, I do think it's the best 'sound' that the band ever had. Hopefully Todd will put more of his own stamp vocally on the material with the new stuff! :metal
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Their intentions sound absolutely spot on for my taste - just a matter of execution now. fingers crossed.
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Their intentions sound absolutely spot on for my taste - just a matter of execution now. fingers crossed.
I also hear that they're considering other producers besides Jimbo this time around. They might still work with him, but who knows? I'd kill to hear a QR album with production done by Jens Bogren, Fredrik Nordstrom or David Bottrill. :hefdaddy
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Their intentions sound absolutely spot on for my taste - just a matter of execution now. fingers crossed.
absolutely!
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The next album and tour will show us if the band has anything left in the tank, or if they are just content to be another Styx, playing mostly really old songs with a singer who sounds just like the one from their heyday. The next album needs to be good and it needs to be good enough to have much of it played live on the tour, not just throwing a token song or two from it into the set list. I am pessimistic, yet hopeful.
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The next album and tour will show us if the band has anything left in the tank, or if they are just content to be another Styx, playing mostly really old songs with a singer who sounds just like the one from their heyday. The next album needs to be good and it needs to be good enough to have much of it played live on the tour, not just throwing a token song or two from it into the set list. I am pessimistic, yet hopeful.
My problem with the band lately is that the s/t album is actually very good and I wish they'd play more of it live (Don't Look Back, Open Road). But apparently they're still doing that "Return to History" Tour they started two years ago.
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That might be a reason I thought their previous album was decent - they worked hard on the melodies. I hope the new one will be even better.
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The next album and tour will show us if the band has anything left in the tank, or if they are just content to be another Styx, playing mostly really old songs with a singer who sounds just like the one from their heyday. The next album needs to be good and it needs to be good enough to have much of it played live on the tour, not just throwing a token song or two from it into the set list. I am pessimistic, yet hopeful.
This is how I feel. While everyone was going gaga over their last album, it was still quite mediocre. Just because it didn't suck does not make it a great album.
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The next album and tour will show us if the band has anything left in the tank, or if they are just content to be another Styx, playing mostly really old songs with a singer who sounds just like the one from their heyday. The next album needs to be good and it needs to be good enough to have much of it played live on the tour, not just throwing a token song or two from it into the set list. I am pessimistic, yet hopeful.
This is how I feel. While everyone was going gaga over their last album, it was still quite mediocre. Just because it didn't suck does not make it a great album.
It wasn't the greatest album the band ever did, but I do rank it over Empire easily.
I do think this next album will be an improvement over the s/t album though. I kept getting the feeling that the s/t album was really the band learning how to be Queensryche again; Whip, Ed and Scott had to get back into the groove, while Todd and Parker needed more experience on their belts.
It sounds like they want to be a bit more daring on this next album, so we'll see how that goes. They might end up pulling an Iron Maiden and not really 'knock it out of the park' until their third album together (ala A Matter of Life and Death).
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The next album and tour will show us if the band has anything left in the tank, or if they are just content to be another Styx, playing mostly really old songs with a singer who sounds just like the one from their heyday. The next album needs to be good and it needs to be good enough to have much of it played live on the tour, not just throwing a token song or two from it into the set list. I am pessimistic, yet hopeful.
This is how I feel. While everyone was going gaga over their last album, it was still quite mediocre. Just because it didn't suck does not make it a great album.
It wasn't the greatest album the band ever did, but I do rank it over Empire easily.
I do think this next album will be an improvement over the s/t album though. I kept getting the feeling that the s/t album was really the band learning how to be Queensryche again; Whip, Ed and Scott had to get back into the groove, while Todd and Parker needed more experience on their belts.
It sounds like they want to be a bit more daring on this next album, so we'll see how that goes. They might end up pulling an Iron Maiden and not really 'knock it out of the park' until their third album together (ala A Matter of Life and Death).
Lots of interesting points in this post Mr. G.
To which I would say:
1. While my eyebrows were definitely raised along with my suspicions about their direction when Empire came out, I do think it's still pretty solid and their last album isn't really in its league. But that's a matter of opinion, I guess.
2. Learning to be Queensryche again? I'm not willing to give the band a mulligan on this. Yeah, the vocals were terrible in Queensryche for the last decade or so, but you know what? The music sucked too! I find it inexcusable that these apparently accomplished musicians cannot write and play some decent music.
3. Love your hopes of an AMOLAD moment for these guys, and I would love for you to be right, but I just don't think they have it in them. Their first album with Todd is nowhere near the level that Maiden put out with Brave New World.
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Lots of interesting points in this post Mr. G.
Thanks! :tup
To which I would say:
1. While my eyebrows were definitely raised along with my suspicions about their direction when Empire came out, I do think it's still pretty solid and their last album isn't really in its league. But that's a matter of opinion, I guess.
Yeah, I guess that comes to personal taste. Empire has its moments, but I find it to be rather inconsistent. I guess that's probably why I'm also not a big fan of Fates Warning's Parallels album. :lol
2. Learning to be Queensryche again? I'm not willing to give the band a mulligan on this. Yeah, the vocals were terrible in Queensryche for the last decade or so, but you know what? The music sucked too! I find it inexcusable that these apparently accomplished musicians cannot write and play some decent music.
Fair enough, but the impression I've gotten from the band's reports were that Tate increasingly rejected input from the rest of the band and turned more to outside songwriters, which makes me think that what songs the band members did get to write in that time were the result of them having to conform to Tate's demands.
Listening to the s/t album, to me, proved that the guys are more than capable of writing decent music.
3. Love your hopes of an AMOLAD moment for these guys, and I would love for you to be right, but I just don't think they have it in them. Their first album with Todd is nowhere near the level that Maiden put out with Brave New World.
See, that's the thing: I think Brave New World is overrated. It's not bad, by any means, but I think a lot of the love for that album comes from the circumstances surrounding that album. The return of Bruce and Adrian into the band, its status as being one of, if not the first old school metal albums to be a success since the early 90's. There's an emotional attachment that surrounds the album.
While I think BNW is a more consistent album than Dance of Death, the latter has several really terrific knock-out songs that I feel surpass anything on BNW. The band then took that to the next step with AMOLAD by making an album that was not only consistent, but contains a lot of terrific songs.
While the s/t album isn't the strongest Queensryche album ever, I do think that it has several great songs (one of which has gone on to become my personal favorite by the band; Open Road) and it's also pretty consistent in quality. The issue is that the band ultimately played it too safe with the album and the production was botched up by the mastering.
Granted, even if the band does put out a knock-out release with this lineup, I don't think they'll ever have as successful a rebound as Iron Maiden has had.
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I'm in agreement with you guys in regards to the band being too "nostalgic" at this point. I know fans want to hear Todd singing all the classics in their proper key etc, but with the S/T running time being what it is, they can easily fit 4-5 songs in each night with no problem.
To not have played "In This Light" (a GREAT track), "Open Road", or "Don't Look Back" after a year is a little disheartening.
I'm very excited to hear about the new album though. They've mentioned quite a few times needing to let the songs "breathe more" and Whip has said he and Todd are working on a 8-9 minute epic as well. :metal
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I'm in agreement with you guys in regards to the band being too "nostalgic" at this point. I know fans want to hear Todd singing all the classics in their proper key etc, but with the S/T running time being what it is, they can easily fit 4-5 songs in each night with no problem.
To not have played "In This Light" (a GREAT track), "Open Road", or "Don't Look Back" after a year is a little disheartening.
I'm very excited to hear about the new album though. They've mentioned quite a few times needing to let the songs "breathe more" and Whip has said he and Todd are working on a 8-9 minute epic as well. :metal
Exactly. Another problem I have with the band focusing so heavily on the classics over the s/t songs is that it really does paint Todd more as a 'Tate clone,' which he really isn't. He's influenced by Tate, certainly, but the guy has an incredible set of pipes that are all his own and I think letting Todd sing more of the material that he actually sang on would help make a distinction between him and Tate.
Hell, I'd also like to see them let Todd do more of his own thing on the new album too. I don't know if he always does this, but I've seen at least one live video on YouTube of the band playing Where Dreams Go To Die and Todd added in this really killer black metal scream early in the song that reminded me of Bruce Dickinson's scream in "Infinite Dreams." It was the perfect touch to the song and I wish it had been on the album.
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Yeah, I guess that comes to personal taste. Empire has its moments, but I find it to be rather inconsistent. I guess that's probably why I'm also not a big fan of Fates Warning's Parallels album. :lol
Empire is inconsistent. Like I said, I was suspicious of their direction on the first listen. But Parallels is easily FW's most consistent and focused album. :biggrin:
Fair enough, but the impression I've gotten from the band's reports were that Tate increasingly rejected input from the rest of the band and turned more to outside songwriters, which makes me think that what songs the band members did get to write in that time were the result of them having to conform to Tate's demands.
Yeah, I understand this and also believe it to be true. Makes me even have less respect for them actually. By doing so, they actually helped to tarnish their OWN legacy. I realize that being in Queensryche was their meal ticket, so I'm not going to hold it against them on a personal level. It's not my place. But theoretically, they only have themselves to blame for their plight.
The return of Bruce and Adrian into the band, its status as being one of, if not the first old school metal albums to be a success since the early 90's.
This is a great point. It's like they led the way AGAIN for all of these 80's bands to enjoy a 2000's renaissance.
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Empire is inconsistent. Like I said, I was suspicious of their direction on the first listen. But Parallels is easily FW's most consistent and focused album. :biggrin:
We'll just agree to disagree there. :biggrin:
Yeah, I understand this and also believe it to be true. Makes me even have less respect for them actually. By doing so, they actually helped to tarnish their OWN legacy. I realize that being in Queensryche was their meal ticket, so I'm not going to hold it against them on a personal level. It's not my place. But theoretically, they only have themselves to blame for their plight.
Oh believe me, I completely agree with you. In all honesty, they should have kicked Tate out years ago and part of why they will never be able to rebound as well as Iron Maiden did was because they let the band go to hell for so long.
My only point there is that I think we've yet to really see if the veteran band members are unable to really bring it with their songwriting capabilities anymore. It could easily be that they just need to get used to the swing of things again, while Todd and Parker are both gaining experience over time themselves.
This is a great point. It's like they led the way AGAIN for all of these 80's bands to enjoy a 2000's renaissance.
Very true! :tup That said, I still regret that Bruce had to give up his solo band for the reunion. It would have been interesting to see where he would have gone with that lineup after The Chemical Wedding. :biggrin:
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I agree on the Bruce point. His solo career is incredible, and to me, it was all gravy because I did NOT expect any of that when he left Maiden. But on the first listen to Balls To Picasso, I knew we were in store for something special. It sounded so fresh and inspired.
And as far as Queensryche goes, I was a huge fan when the only thing they had out was the EP. But after Empire, they are a band that has consistently let me down, and I'm always waiting for their next album thinking, "maybe this is going to be the one", but invariably, it's another let down.
I would've rather had them pick the 4 or 5 best songs from the s/t and simply made an EP. Because in album form, I just didn't feel it was a strong enough statement. But again, maybe their NEXT album is going to be "the one". See.. It's like being trapped in a Rycheavarium. ;D
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I agree on the Bruce point. His solo career is incredible, and to me, it was all gravy because I did NOT expect any of that when he left Maiden. But on the first listen to Balls To Picasso, I knew we were in store for something special. It sounded so fresh and inspired.
And as far as Queensryche goes, I was a huge fan when the only thing they had out was the EP. But after Empire, they are a band that has consistently let me down, and I'm always waiting for their next album thinking, "maybe this is going to be the one", but invariably, it's another let down.
I would've rather had them pick the 4 or 5 best songs from the s/t and simply made an EP. Because in album form, I just didn't feel it was a strong enough statement. But again, maybe their NEXT album is going to be "the one". See.. It's like being trapped in a Rycheavarium. ;D
Your last point is interesting, because Michael said they considered doing 5 or 6 songs for an EP, and Century Media told them to go ahead and make a full album. That, and they were in the middle of a tour when that all happened. :lol
I think (and hope) you'll enjoy their next album. If they can carry the momentum they have from the S/T + their live show, with some better production, they can make a very good album.
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Been on board the QR train since the release of the EP and I think Empire is stunning. Sonic perfection, compositions that get
inside your head for days and most importantly it has stood the test of time very well for me.
Add to that when my daughter was tiny I would hold her and listen to Silent Lucidity to put her to sleep.
Empire is a 10/10 album for me.
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Empire is pretty great, so I don't know what some of you are talking about. There are only one or two songs I don't really care for; everything else is at least good, and the majority of songs are fantastic:
Anybody Listening?
The Thin Line
Della Brown
Silent Lucidity
Best I Can
Empire
All of those songs are dynamite.
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Oh, and hell yeah to emtee's comment about its sound; Empire sounds awesome.
And to make a direct comparison, listen to anything from Empire and then go listen to anything from Hear in the Now Frontier: the difference is massive. Empire sounds alive and crisp, while HTNF sounds dull and lifeless, sonically.
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Promised Land sounds great too - shame about the songs. The only song I come back to , and one of my all time faves from them , is One More Time.
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Well, Promised Land is not only their best record ever, IMO, but one of the best records ever by anybody. It's a perfect record, on all levels. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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;D
Promised Land is an amazingly divisive record amongst some pretty diehard fans - for many it's their last great album and for just as many (me included) it's the start of the rot. Either way it gave no idea of how rotten the rot would be ;D
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Promised Land sounds great too - shame about the songs. The only song I come back to , and one of my all time faves from them , is One More Time.
Interesting. Have you listened to the album straight through? It's really, just damn powerful.
It's a damn shame that they didn't continue on that path... HITNF was just, bleh. Then once Chris left everything spiraled out of control, as we all saw.
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Interesting. Have you listened to the album straight through? It's really, just damn powerful.
Umm...yeah ;) They were close enough to my favourite band back then and I rushed out and bought it on release day and played it repeatedly trying to like it , but it just never did much at all for me. Great production on it though and , like I said , One More Time is a ripper.
I wouldn't have listened to it for over a decade - I'll give it another spin soonish but don't think my taste has changed all that much tbh.
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The band that made Promised Land simply could not be the same band I fell in live with a dozen years earlier.
Listened to Empire on the way to work today. Yes, it sounds amazing! Nice album.
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The band that made Promised Land simply could not be the same band I fell in live with a dozen years earlier.
Listened to Empire on the way to work today. Yes, it sounds amazing! Nice album.
What do you mean? They were certainly a different band for sure... but with all of the internal drama and issues going on at the time, I don't think they could have made any other album.
I've read a lot of places people wanted them to make "Empire II", but the band probably would have imploded if that happened.
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Oh, and hell yeah to emtee's comment about its sound; Empire sounds awesome.
And to make a direct comparison, listen to anything from Empire and then go listen to anything from Hear in the Now Frontier: the difference is massive. Empire sounds alive and crisp, while HTNF sounds dull and lifeless, sonically.
The songs weren't there on HITNF either, but yeah, it sounded as you describe. It was Chris' album too by all accounts.
Empire is one of the best produced albums I've heard along with the similar sounding Saraya album, When The Blackbird Sings, both produced by Peter Collins and would have made my top 50 but I had a 2 album per band rule and OM and RFO took the spots.
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The production on Empire is amazing. But put me in the group that finds the album inconsistent, but decent. Promised Land is far superior to my ears. I've always called it "Rage for Order with a budget."
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I enjoy Promised Land more than Empire too. I dont think many will argue about the downward spiral that starts with HITNF.
I also expect the next release to far exceed the S/T. I'm hoping for more progressive/heavy elements to be put in, and I'm pretty sure that will be the case.
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As much as I like Promised Land it will never surpass Empire. That album was a tour de force.
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The production on Empire is amazing. But put me in the group that finds the album inconsistent, but decent. Promised Land is far superior to my ears. I've always called it "Rage for Order with a budget."
God yes. :hefdaddy Promised Land is like the highest quality porn out there, as far as album productions go. It all sounds so huge, without actually sounding all that loud. Plus all the soundscapes that are in there. It's just absolutely incredible.
I enjoy Promised Land more than Empire too. I dont think many will argue about the downward spiral that starts with HITNF.
I also expect the next release to far exceed the S/T. I'm hoping for more progressive/heavy elements to be put in, and I'm pretty sure that will be the case.
I tend to prefer Promised Land over Operation: Mindcrime too, for that matter. Though lately, I've started to finally appreciate that album again for the first time since the whole mess with Tate went down. It's definitely a classic release and for very good reason.
I'm really interested in seeing where they go with that. I'd love to see the band do more stuff like Spore, Don't Look Back or A World Without. Darker, heavier and more proggy. Generic request from a fan, I guess, but those three songs were the highlights of the album for me (aside from Open Road, which is just one of those magical songs that speaks to me personally).
Basically, I'd like to see the band look less to Empire for inspiration and more towards the other classic albums like the riffs of The Warning, the complexity of Rage for Order, the heaviness and intensity of Operation: Mindcrime and the atmosphere of Promised Land. :lol
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Their intentions sound absolutely spot on for my taste - just a matter of execution now. fingers crossed.
Agree wholeheartedly
The next album and tour will show us if the band has anything left in the tank, or if they are just content to be another Styx, playing mostly really old songs with a singer who sounds just like the one from their heyday. The next album needs to be good and it needs to be good enough to have much of it played live on the tour, not just throwing a token song or two from it into the set list. I am pessimistic, yet hopeful.
I prefer to hope and believe they are/will be more like Journey, not Styx.
I dont think many will argue about the downward spiral that starts with HITNF.
Word.
I rank Empire above PL, but it's close. After that, nothing they've done comes close. You couldn't even take the best 10 songs from the albums in HITNF to DTC and make a good album.
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I'm one of the rare few who like HITNF. Tribe is also a good album.
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Hear looks like pure genius compared to what came after.
However, I have to give props to one track. Right Side of My Mind is STILL the greatest post-PL track they've ever recorded. No matter how bad the rest of Q2Krap is, they will always be able to hang their hat on that one. I actually hope they bring they bring that one back.
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Ugh... "Promised Land"... what a stinker.
I remember the first time I heard Promised Land, I realized just how much Tate was a fraud of a singer. Musically, Promised Land is really interesting and conceptually too, but Tate's awful singing ruins it. Over metal Tate was OK, but over prog rock he sounded horrible, his singing a cross between LaBrie on a bad day, the guy from Creed, and the odor of spoiled milk spilled onto a carpet. In retrospect I wish Tate would have gotten the boot back then instead of dragging the band through the mud for the next 15 years.
I would LOVE to hear that album with someone else on vocals. But I can't listen to it because even thinking of Tate scream I AM I makes my blood run cold.
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I'm one of the rare few who like HITNF. Tribe is also a good album.
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Tribe is the best album they have done post Promise Land.
Edit: Except for possibly the new album.
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Tribe is the best album they have done post Promise Land.
That may be the case, but it still sounds like 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag.
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Actually, Tribe is pretty underrated. DeGarmo's presence is felt, and it does make a difference. It's definitely the last time they attempted actual collaboration...the results are mixed, but several tracks are much better than they get credit for.
I think that more history will reveal Tribe to be a sortof "lost classic" album.
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I agree that Right Side of My Mind is good (sounds like classic 'Ryche), and HINTF does have a few songs I still enjoy to some extent, but those were the exceptions on those two albums. The vast majority of songs on both of those records were extremely forgettable.
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Agreed on both points. Which made it all the more amazing that fully half of Tribe was good.
....and yet it remains even more fascinating that they couldn't even manage that for the next three albums.
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I agree that RSOMM is the best post PL song with Tate involved. Would love to see that one brought back, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Tribe is a very good release. A couple of mediocre/sub par songs on it, but some solid material overall. Maybe not 10 pounds like Chad said, but rather 5 or 6
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I love HITNF, but I don't think it's a good Queensryche album. So much of it was written by DeGarmo I've often wondered if it'd have been better served by finding other collaborators and doing it as a side project/solo album. I think Tribe sounds more like a Queensryche album than HITNF did.
Promised Land was the start of the "I'm not going to work with the nasty man's metal riffs no more" strops from Tate that meant Wilton's contributions were severely reduced, which is a large part of why Queensryche's work started going downhill as far as I'm concerned (Promised Land was a massive let down, at the time, for me).
On Q2k, his significant contributions to the material aren't particularly metal, either... and yet are still the best songs on an otherwise fairly awful album. I very nearly binned that album not long after I first got it and it was at least a year before I managed to find something to like about it.
The S/T was a big step back in the right direction but it did sound slightly underdeveloped. There must have been some trepidation that, whilst he could do a reasonable impersonation of 80s Tate, LaTorre's writing might not work out.
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Just listened to Promised Land.
No.
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:tup
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I'm one of the rare few who like HITNF. Tribe is also a good album.
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YOU TAKE THAT LOOK BACK YOU FLOPPY CANADIAN HEAD!!
Well, I really do like it. Like I said, I know I'm in the minority and by that on this forum, the only one. :lol
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Promised Land is my fav album ever, just a hair above DT's Awake. Tate basically bled onto the page in his PL's lyrics, and you gotta admire that. So much emotion. Wish I had gotten to see that tour.
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I gave the self-titled album a full-spin on my way to work this morning (LOL), and I have to say I'm pretty pumped about QR-2015.
Now I don't know how this new album will stack up to the original lineup (EP-PL), but I think they're going to crank out a very good album. And it seems like the band is very aware of the issues that plagued the self-titled debut (Running time, song length, and production).
Everything that Whip and Todd have been saying lately just seems like they're dialed in and going to put out something really good. Hopefully a big world tour and playing the full album will give them some good exposure.
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I did the same with the s/t the other day.
I agree, there is hope.
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I'm one of the rare few who like HITNF. Tribe is also a good album.
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YOU TAKE THAT LOOK BACK YOU FLOPPY CANADIAN HEAD!!
Well, I really do like it. Like I said, I know I'm in the minority and by that on this forum, the only one. :lol
Not the only one. It is a top 5 Queensryche album for me.
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Promised Land is so good and unique that I wouldn't have minded if every album after it had the same overall style and sound. Music, production, performance, lyrics - no weak spot on that one.
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When Promised Land came out it was a huge disapointment for me. Over the years I came to like it but it never will be top material for me. Too many songs that I don't really care about.
Been listening through my QR discography lately and must say that HITNF isn't as bad as I remember but still not good. I really like Q2K (probably the only one) and Tribe for me is the absolute low point (though I haven't listened to DTC). This album is so boring and uninspired even Mindcrime 2 and American Soldier have some better moments, although one could argue if the latter two are QR albums or Tater/Slater solo stuff under the QR name.
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I'm right with you on every point...except I would switch the descriptions of Q2K and Tribe. I think Q2K was the low point. There are 2 or 3 songs that I find to be OK...and of course The Right Side of My Mind is an anomaly...a single mind blowing track in a sea of meh and garbage. I really like Tribe...well....I really like about half of it. I haven't spun it in awhile, so I should do that again. I remember when I did my album discussion series over at MP.com, I actually had to go out and buy Tribe to do the review because I didn't own it yet. I remember that I was pleasantly surprised. To me it was an improvement over Q2K, and even a bit better than HITNF....but obviously not classic material. I seem to remember that Art of Life in particular was really quite good. But I'd have to hear it again.
I haven't listened to anything QR since the self titled first came out. I've just been off in completely new directions lately. Tom Waits, Frank Zappa, some classical and opera. When I do listen to prog it's usually Haken (cannot get enough of The Mountain) or old Marillion. But Tribe is one that deserves to have the dust blown off of it once in awhile.
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I really liked Q2K from the beginning, it's nowhere near the classics but I thought it was decent. I thought it would be a good starting point to build up reputation again, little did I know.
I was actually a little surprised when I re-listened to Tribe. I had better memories of it but as of now I really find nothing to like about it. Maybe my taste has changed or time had clouded my memory. Maybe I had fond memories because I had in mind that Tribe was the album where Chris De Garmo sort of came back. But it was the Chris de Garmo of HITNF and not the Chris de Garmo of the earlier albums.
I listened to the album a couple times but I have a hard time remembering individual songs, it all just plods along. The one thing that stands out is that there are (almost) no guitar solos. Why?
Anyway, I'm really liking the new self-titled and spin it more or less regularly. So hoping they continue to get better.
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I really liked Q2K from the beginning, it's nowhere near the classics but I thought it was decent. I thought it would be a good starting point to build up reputation again, little did I know.
I was actually a little surprised when I re-listened to Tribe. I had better memories of it but as of now I really find nothing to like about it. Maybe my taste has changed or time had clouded my memory. Maybe I had fond memories because I had in mind that Tribe was the album where Chris De Garmo sort of came back. But it was the Chris de Garmo of HITNF and not the Chris de Garmo of the earlier albums.
I listened to the album a couple times but I have a hard time remembering individual songs, it all just plods along. The one thing that stands out is that there are (almost) no guitar solos. Why?
Anyway, I'm really liking the new self-titled and spin it more or less regularly. So hoping they continue to get better.
It was the era of no guitar solos and it sucked.
Inever liked Tribe - just don't get the love for it. I'd take Q2K over it, but its Hobson's choice.
I never subscribed to the bring back Chris calls because as far as I could see he had moved away from the metal as much as Tate had.
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Yeah I know and you're right, it sucked. But to this day I can't understand why QR felt the need to follow this trend. They once were trendsetters not followers.
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Yeah I know and you're right, it sucked. But to this day I can't understand why QR felt the need to follow this trend. They once were trendsetters not followers.
That was my argument at the time too. They left behind all that Queensryche was . That was what was killing them.
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Probably something to do with them going broke, the label going under and having to attract new fans to please whoever they signed up with? Or they just felt like they had something to say in that genre.
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Geoff Tate's band is going to go under the name Operation Mindcrime after his current tour.
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Geoff Tate's band is going to go under the name Operation Mindcrime after his current tour.
And will be releasing a trilogy of albums...
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tates-queensryche-to-forge-ahead-as-operation-mindcrime/
Just when you think he couldn't possibly get more pathetic. :facepalm:
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(https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/jammindude/jumptoconclusions_zpsff0069f6.jpg)
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Geoff Tate's band is going to go under the name Operation Mindcrime after his current tour.
And will be releasing a trilogy of albums...
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tates-queensryche-to-forge-ahead-as-operation-mindcrime/
Just when you think he couldn't possibly get more pathetic. :facepalm:
Actually, it kinda makes sense. I mean, I'm definitely no fan of Geoff Tate, so please do not take this as support, but that said, calling his band "Operation Mindcrime" is actually, from a business standpoint, a good move. He cannot use the Queensryche name after this tour. No one cares about him as a solo artist. But calling his band "Operation Mindcrime" is guaranteed to spark interest that he otherwise would not possibly be able to generate.
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The number of passive-aggressive quips and claims to genius in this article is unbearable. Can't this man just tune into the Universe and feel the tides of everyone's collective embarrassment wash over him?
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I feel so bad for Simon Wright and Rudy Sarzo. Such illustrious careers and THIS is where they're at?
Actually, it kinda makes sense. I mean, I'm definitely no fan of Geoff Tate, so please do not take this as support, but that said, calling his band "Operation Mindcrime" is actually, from a business standpoint, a good move. He cannot use the Queensryche name after this tour. No one cares about him as a solo artist. But calling his band "Operation Mindcrime" is guaranteed to spark interest that he otherwise would not possibly be able to generate.
I actually like the name.
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I think Rudy licked one too many coats of varnish off his bass guitar neck.
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Tate just won't go away will he?
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Tate just won't go away will he?
He just graduated from the MP school of advertising - any publicity is good publicity. i'm still loving that clip from the morning show in the US with him doing the retro thing - fucking hilarious.
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Tate just won't go away will he?
He just graduated from the MP school of advertising - any publicity is good publicity. i'm still loving that clip from the morning show in the US with him doing the retro thing - fucking hilarious.
Do you mean that history of rock concert he did, that was indeed hilarious.
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This clip and interview
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-dons-wig-for-new-day-northwest-performance-interview-video/
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This clip and interview
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-dons-wig-for-new-day-northwest-performance-interview-video/
Oh wow, I haven't seen this one. I'll have to check it out later, can't see it at work, looks like a hoot though.
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This clip and interview
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-dons-wig-for-new-day-northwest-performance-interview-video/
Oh wow, I haven't seen this one. I'll have to check it out later, can't see it at work, looks like a hoot though.
I remember the day that happened, and it was circulating around somewhere. I'm really happy you reposted it... It deserves to be re-watched. Kinda in the same way that Birdemic and The Room deserve to be rewatched.
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I figured he would go with that name; best name overall for his band. But overall, I couldnt care less.
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best name overall for his band.
yeah - describes where he's at perfectly ;D
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I will be referring to it as Tatecrime. Not calling his fucking band the same name as an awesome album, sorry. :lol
(Especially after all that "I need to get away from the Queensryche name." shit.)
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So, he's naming the band after a concept album that had a failed sequel almost 20 years after the original. And now he has this brilliant idea of a new story spanning 3 new albums. If this new story even hints at having anything to do with Mind Crime........
That's one dead fuckin' horse.
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And this news comes a day after this interview had been posted: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-is-not-interested-in-or-comfortable-with-what-the-queensryche-name-means-now/
So you're not comfortable with the Queensryche name, but giving your band a name that will always be associated with QR is ok? :lolpalm:
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And this news comes a day after this interview had been posted: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-is-not-interested-in-or-comfortable-with-what-the-queensryche-name-means-now/
So you're not comfortable with the Queensryche name, but giving your band a name that will always be associated with QR is ok? :lolpalm:
I'm not sure what to say after reading that. I simply have a very hard time believing that a human being can be literally that full of shit. I apologize to the mods if I'm stepping over a line by saying this, but I seriously wonder if he's suffering from some sort of mental disorder. I used to hold this man in such high regard, as I'm sure that many others did as well. It's baffling to see what he's become.
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And this news comes a day after this interview had been posted: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-is-not-interested-in-or-comfortable-with-what-the-queensryche-name-means-now/
So you're not comfortable with the Queensryche name, but giving your band a name that will always be associated with QR is ok? :lolpalm:
I'm not sure what to say after reading that. I simply have a very hard time believing that a human being can be literally that full of shit. I apologize to the mods if I'm stepping over a line by saying this, but I seriously wonder if he's suffering from some sort of mental disorder. I used to hold this man in such high regard, as I'm sure that many others did as well. It's baffling to see what he's become.
This. He's become deluded. And I used to love the guy. Thinking man's metal - that was him (and CDG). Now he's doing his thinking with his dick. What thinking he's even doing.
And MC? Sounds like any QR tribute band doing the rounds. And that's what he's become. Only he can't sing the songs.
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This. He's become deluded. And I used to love the guy. Thinking man's metal - that was him (and CDG). Now he's doing his thinking with his dick asshole. What thinking he's even doing.
And MC? Sounds like any QR tribute band doing the rounds. And that's what he's become. Only he can't sing the songs.
Fix'd, and then I agree.
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Why is it the delusional never get the real pulse of the fans? He's lost so much with his antics over this decade.
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This clip and interview
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-dons-wig-for-new-day-northwest-performance-interview-video/
Fucking terrible. It's like he's completely tone deaf now, he has no sense of tone or melody anymore whatsoever.
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I thought that was the best he's held a tune in ages ;D
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Oh, I can't wait to see the advertisements for this "band":
"Tonight, at your local dive bar, it's OPERATION: MINDCRIME! Featuring ex-Queensryche singer and creator of the original epic concept album 1988's OPERATION: MINDCRIME and it's 2006 sequel OPERATION MINDCRIME II, Geoff Tate, performing OPERATION MINDCRIME and OPERATION: MINDCRIME II in their entirety!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M)
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Oh, I can't wait to see the advertisements for this "band":
"Tonight, at your local dive bar, it's OPERATION: MINDCRIME! Featuring ex-Queensryche singer and creator of the original epic concept album 1988's OPERATION: MINDCRIME and it's 2006 sequel OPERATION MINDCRIME II, Geoff Tate, performing OPERATION MINDCRIME and OPERATION: MINDCRIME II in their entirety!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M)
That is just as good as that comment I saw on Blabbermouth when Tate went with his "Queensr˙che Starring Geoff Tate - The Farewell Tour" phase.
How bout "Queensr˙che The Farewell Tour-Starring Geoff Tate. The Voice Of Queensr˙che. The visionary who brought you Operation: Mindcrime and Operation: Mindcrime II. The look, sound, taste and smell of Queensr˙che. The absolute dead last time Queensr˙che starring Geoff Tate "The voice of Queensr˙che" will ever perform on this the final farewell tour."
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-announces-queensryche-starring-geoff-tate-the-farewell-tour/
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I thought that was the best he's held a tune in ages ;D
He couldn't carry a tune in a bucket these days. Its like he's forgotten how to sing. That nasally thing he does in Silent Lucidity is awful.
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I'm just not even wasting my time to check these things out. I've had my share of lolz watching/listening to GT the past couple of years, not sure watching this would do anything other than make me rage that I spent ANY time dedicated to him.
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I'm with Chad, I'm done too
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Is anyone else amused by the "performed in over 46 countries" bit? :lol
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I'm just not even wasting my time to check these things out. I've had my share of lolz watching/listening to GT the past couple of years, not sure watching this would do anything other than make me rage for order that I spent ANY time dedicated to him.
Fixed! :lol
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Is anyone else amused by the "performed in over 46 countries" bit? :lol
47 countries.
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So yeah, apparently Todd and Glen Drover teamed up recently to do a song together! They've posted a teaser on YouTube and say it'll be available for downloading on Friday. From the sound of the preview, I'm hoping they eventually do a whole album together, because this sounds terrific! :metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vych2eK_7Ag&feature=youtu.be
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This sounded good, reminded me of what Sanctuary could sound now.
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Nice! I will have to keep my eyes peeled for that. Sounds really good.
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This sounds excellent
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So yeah, apparently Todd and Glen Drover teamed up recently to do a song together! They've posted a teaser on YouTube and say it'll be available for downloading on Friday. From the sound of the preview, I'm hoping they eventually do a whole album together, because this sounds terrific! :metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vych2eK_7Ag&feature=youtu.be
Fuck yeah, this just sounds like Eidolon with Todd. Full album please!
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Is anyone else amused by the "performed in over 46 countries" bit? :lol
47 countries.
At least he didn't claim it was 81% of all the countries. ;D
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So yeah, apparently Todd and Glen Drover teamed up recently to do a song together! They've posted a teaser on YouTube and say it'll be available for downloading on Friday. From the sound of the preview, I'm hoping they eventually do a whole album together, because this sounds terrific! :metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vych2eK_7Ag&feature=youtu.be
Fuck yeah, this just sounds like Eidolon with Todd. Full album please!
It's straight up my alley. Also reminds me a lot of Nevermore and Fates Warning too! :metal
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So yeah, apparently Todd and Glen Drover teamed up recently to do a song together! They've posted a teaser on YouTube and say it'll be available for downloading on Friday. From the sound of the preview, I'm hoping they eventually do a whole album together, because this sounds terrific! :metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vych2eK_7Ag&feature=youtu.be
Fuck yeah, this just sounds like Eidolon with Todd. Full album please!
It's straight up my alley. Also reminds me a lot of Nevermore and Fates Warning too! :metal
You should check out some Eidolon, pretty damn good. The last album they did had Nils K Rue on vox.
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You should check out some Eidolon, pretty damn good. The last album they did had Nils K Rue on vox.
Oh, fuck me!! :evilmonkey:
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The song "Discordia" is available for digital download on iTunes and Amazon now! Here's my little review for the song:
"Discordia" shows off several other sides to Todd's vocals that we didn't really get to hear on the recent Queensryche album and really shows off Glen's incredible chops. It all comes across as a wicked blend of "No Exit"-era Fates Warning, King Diamond and Nevermore. In other words, this song is almost five minutes worth of quality prog metal! I'd love to see these two do a full album together at some point in the future.
Also, this is almost definitely Todd's best vocal performance to date.
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Just heard this. WOW!
It all comes across as a wicked blend of "No Exit"-era Fates Warning, King Diamond and Nevermore. In other words, this song is almost five minutes worth of quality prog metal!
That's a great description.
Do you think the guys in Queensryche can pull off something like this?? I'll believe it when I hear it..
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Just heard this. WOW!
It all comes across as a wicked blend of "No Exit"-era Fates Warning, King Diamond and Nevermore. In other words, this song is almost five minutes worth of quality prog metal!
That's a great description.
Thanks man! I posted that review on my Facebook page and both Glen and Todd liked it (Glen even responded with a thanks and Todd liked a few of the responses too). Felt pretty happy about that. :biggrin:
Do you think the guys in Queensryche can pull off something like this?? I'll believe it when I hear it..
No, of course not. But that's partially because this is something very different from Queensryche. While Todd is the perfect guy for Queensryche, I think he's at his absolute best and really defines his own personal voice when he sings heavier material. He really loves to get gritty and throw in all sorts of stuff into the mix when he can, while it seems he has to generally sing clean all the time in Queensryche.
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It's a shame that with all the time that passed we never got a Crimson Glory album with Todd on it either :-\
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It's a shame that with all the time that passed we never got a Crimson Glory album with Todd on it either :-\
Having spoken with Todd myself a couple of times before, I can say that he'd be the first person to agree with you. He really regretted how things turned out with CG and contrary to popular belief, I'm rather confident he would've left CG even he hadn't joined Queensryche. The only reason we even got to hear the demo for Garden of Shadows was because Todd cared about actually putting material out there.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b8Dw8q8HIRo
Queensryche playing The Whisper a few nights ago - a few dud notes from Todd but overall ........well , so much better than The Vest could do. Hopefully playing all this stuff with Todd gets them back into the groove for the new album. I listened to the s/t a few days back and to be honest I downgraded my rating on it quite a bit - I think I was so happy to hear QR sounding like QR when it came out that I had rose tinted glasses.
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Discordia in full :
https://splashurl.com/lq37okl (https://splashurl.com/lq37okl)
Wow!
B.Lee
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Discordia in full :
https://splashurl.com/lq37okl (https://splashurl.com/lq37okl)
Wow!
B.Lee
This is awesome.
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That is awesome!! Those lyrics are very cool
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It's pretty much Eidolon with Todd on the mic.
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Luckily for Tate he's still the favorite singer of at least one person. That guy happens to be... Geoff Tate: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tates-favorite-singer-is-still-geoff-tate/
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Luckily for Tate he's still the favorite singer of at least one person. That guy happens to be... Geoff Tate: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tates-favorite-singer-is-still-geoff-tate/
Christ, this guy's ego knows no bounds.
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That part might have been just the joke, but the rest of the interview was just what I expected from Geoff.
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Apparently, media outlets are picking up the story of Todd's father taking his life. Prayers go out to Todd in this difficult time.
Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/father-of-queensryche-singer-todd-la-torre-found-dead/ (News video included)
Father Of QUEENSRźCHE Singer TODD LA TORRE Found Dead
**UPDATE**: Todd La Torre has released the following statement via his Facebook page:
"As many of you have become aware, my father is no longer with us. I haven't disclosed anything to the press, as to preserve some privacy during this time. It has since been made aware to the public by the media, reaching outlets well outside of my local Tampa Bay area.
"Although this is a very difficult time, this post is only to confirm that we will not be cancelling any shows. I have responsibilities to uphold, and will do whatever I can to perform to the best of my abilities considering the circumstances.
"Thank you for your support. Sincerely, Todd."
The original article follows below.
According to a number of media outlets — including Tampa Bay Times, WFLA.com and ABC Action News — William LaTorre, a prominent St. Petersburg, Florida doctor and father of QUEENSRźCHE/ex-CRIMSON GLORY singer Todd La Torre (pictured), was found dead in his office Thursday morning. Detectives have officially ruled his death as a suicide. A gun was found nearby. He was 73.
The shooting reportedly took place around 7 a.m. at St. Petersburg's LaTorre Wellness Center, which William LaTorre owned. He did not leave a note, according to officers.
"We have people with his family at this time and family and friends have gathered to deal with this news," Yolanda Fernandez of the St. Petersburg Police Department told ABC Action News. "It is very difficult for everyone and of course he has been here in the Bay area for a long time, so he has a lot of people that knew him."
William LaTorre's daughter and Todd's sister, Kristina Latorre Young, paid tribute to her dad earlier today by posting a photo of the two siblings and their father on her Facebook page (see below).
William LaTorre was the chiropractor who made headlines in 1989 when he became involved in a Memorial Day boat collision that claimed the lives of four teenagers. Todd, then 16, two of Todd's friends, and William LaTorre's wife were on the boat with him that day. William LaTorre was later acquitted in court.
Barry Cohen, who represented William LaTorre in that case, told ABC Action News he saw LaTorre three weeks ago at Trader Joe's in Tampa. Cohen said there was no indication LaTorre was in distress.
"You never know what goes on inside somebody's mind," said Cohen. "He obviously had a lot going on. A lot of demons eating at him."
William LaTorre had plans today to celebrate his 38th wedding anniversary with his wife.
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/father-of-queensryche-singer-todd-la-torre-found-dead/#G8pg43GoBlgsgkob.99
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Yeah, I heard about that last night before I went to bed. I feel awful for Todd. :(
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Horrible news. RIP
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Wow. That's too bad.
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terrible news
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Terrible news indeed. My prayers go to Todd and his family.
B.Lee
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Horrible news. RIP
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That's awful news.
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Teaser video for "Building the Empire" campaign.
Are you ready???
https://youtu.be/zITXKmKZ4PM
Looks like crowdfunding starts on Monday.
My guess is they're gonna get a shit load of sponsorship. I'll likely be there.
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The preorders are already up: https://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/queensryche
Hopefully we'll hear some new music soon!
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The preorders are already up: https://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/queensryche
Hopefully we'll hear some new music soon!
I put my $25 in.
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Interesting... I might pledge too!
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Man,i need 60 bucks RIGHT NOW.
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Man,i need 60 bucks RIGHT NOW.
So you want the vinyl? I've got my eyes on the hoodie, although it's rather pricey (makes sense considering that there are only 200 of those). It also comes with the CD (a signed one!), unlike the T-shirt.
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The preorders are already up: https://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/queensryche
Hopefully we'll hear some new music soon!
I put my $25 in.
Got mine in, as well. :metal
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As cool as this is, I wonder why they are going on PM. Not enough faith in them from the label?
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Could just be that they want full creative control, and just go through a label for promotion and distribution.
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Wow....for $35K, up to 3 people can have QR play their private event. :rollin
I laugh because I just can't imagine. But that would be totally cool. If I was putting up "new car money" for QR to play a show for me, I would also want control of the setlist. :xbones
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Wow....for $35K, up to 3 people can have QR play their private event. :rollin
I laugh because I just can't imagine. But that would be totally cool. If I was putting up "new car money" for QR to play a show for me, I would also want control of the setlist. :xbones
And Pamela Moore to felate the three of us. :lol
$35k for an appearance fee. Seems like a great deal for those with that kind of dough.
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Even if I had 35K to blow, I don't think I would do it. I would think about buying Michael's guitar though, but that's still pricey.
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Remember that it is a private function.... What if you found 34 buddies to put up $1K each?
(it wasn't limited to 3 people....they are selling 3 of the $35K packages)
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OK, so I clicked the Pledgemusic link with extreme sketicism. But I'll say this. If you are a huge fan of the band, they have made some really cool stuff available.
But I'll just wait till the CD comes out, thankyouverymuch.
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I think the offerings are pretty great, especially for the big fans. Pricing seems fair too (it only makes sense that the exclusive stuff is expensive, and you help them to fund their disc with full creative control).
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Having your name in the liner notes would be pretty cool
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Seeing as how I'm a college student with a low spending budget, I'll probably go for the $25 Signed CD + AccessPass deal. I'm very interested in seeing how this album turns out.
I wonder who they'll get to produce the album?
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I wonder who they'll get to produce the album?
You mean that's not up for auction?
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I wonder who they'll get to produce the album?
You mean that's not up for auction?
:lol Nope, though one of the options is to be there in the studio for two days, I believe.
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Kind of surprised that the phone call option was the first to sell out. Would have expected the vinyl or the lyric sheets to go before that one.
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Yeah, I wouldn't pay for a phone call. I actually thought that that was the dumbest one on there.
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Yeah, I wouldn't pay for a phone call. I actually thought that that was the dumbest one on there.
*ring ring*
"Hello"
"hey this is Queensryche"
"oh hey.. uh, hi"
"hey man, what's goin on?"
"Uh uh uh, nothing much... You?"
"we're in the studio working on the new album"
"that's cool... I'm making a sandwich"
"So....."
"....."
"....."
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Yeah, I wouldn't pay for a phone call. I actually thought that that was the dumbest one on there.
*ring ring*
"Hello"
"hey this is Queensryche"
"oh hey.. uh, hi"
"hey man, what's goin on?"
"Uh uh uh, nothing much... You?"
"we're in the studio working on the new album"
"that's cool... I'm making a sandwich"
"So....."
"....."
"....."
I was expecting......
*ring ring*
"Hello"
"(whispered) Mindcrime, Mindcrime"..........
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Yeah, I wouldn't pay for a phone call. I actually thought that that was the dumbest one on there.
*ring ring*
"Hello"
"hey this is Queensryche"
"oh hey.. uh, hi"
"hey man, what's goin on?"
"Uh uh uh, nothing much... You?"
"we're in the studio working on the new album"
"that's cool... I'm making a sandwich"
"So....."
"....."
"....."
I was expecting......
*ring ring*
"Hello"
"(whispered) Mindcrime, Mindcrime"..........
Yeah but then Geoff Tate would call Queensryche threatening to sue.
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Yeah, I wouldn't pay for a phone call. I actually thought that that was the dumbest one on there.
*ring ring*
"Hello"
"hey this is Queensryche"
"oh hey.. uh, hi"
"hey man, what's goin on?"
"Uh uh uh, nothing much... You?"
"we're in the studio working on the new album"
"that's cool... I'm making a sandwich"
"So....."
"....."
"....."
I was expecting......
*ring ring*
"Hello"
"(whispered) Mindcrime, Mindcrime"..........
Then they'd hang up, only to immediately call you again and play the song over the phone.
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That would be cool because that's how the song Operation: Mindcrime starts.
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That would be cool because that's how the song Operation: Mindcrime starts.
That's the joke. :)
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I know. I was being Ben Rothleisberger.
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Ever since I first heard OM, I started noticing the hospital samples in every movie, tv-show or ad. And I guess they weren't new back when they were used on the album. Almost 20 years and no one has bothered to make a new background sample for a hospital xD
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The deluxe edition no one asked for! :lol I was giggling when I saw this thing at the store. Why not just sell the new mix by itself? The regular edition was still being sold here.
(https://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/NelStoneXI/Photo517_zpsae35e8ef.jpg)
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The deluxe edition no one asked for! :lol I was giggling when I saw this thing at the store. Why not just sell the new mix by itself? The regular edition was still being sold here.
I don't really get the hate for this album. I think it's pretty awesome. Sure, it's not classic Queensryche, and Jeoff Tate is a bit of a dick, but good music is good music, and I enjoy it quite a bit. Although I'm just fine with the original mix. Who's Billy Sherwood and what makes his mix so much better?
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I like The Weight Of The World and In The Hands Of God, I just find this release unnecessary. Why are both versions in it? The remix isn't being sold by itself at all, the original album still had plenty of copies in that same cd rack... it just baffles me. There aren't even any bonus tracks besides the ones that were already there. It's just more money for two discs of the same music, just one has an improved mix. Not that I ever had a problem with the original mix.
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Who's Billy Sherwood and what makes his mix so much better?
He was the guitarist in Yes for awhile if I remember right.
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.........and a turd polisher of some repute.
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The deluxe edition no one asked for! :lol I was giggling when I saw this thing at the store. Why not just sell the new mix by itself? The regular edition was still being sold here.
I don't really get the hate for this album. I think it's pretty awesome. Sure, it's not classic Queensryche, and Jeoff Tate is a bit of a dick, but good music is good music, and I enjoy it quite a bit. Although I'm just fine with the original mix. Who's Billy Sherwood and what makes his mix so much better?
Cold was a decent little tune but the rest is just rubbish.
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Cold was a decent little tune but the rest is just rubbish.
Pretty much this. I'm not sure I'd use quite as strong a word as rubbish, I'd just stick with mediocre - entirely in keeping with what I'd expect from another bunch of Jason Slater tunes.
The only lasting entertainment FU provided was the rubbernecking joy of listening to the train wreck re-recordings of the classic QR hits and marvelling at the chutzpah of them blatantly re-using vocals from the original JCW recording.
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I like The Weight Of The World and In The Hands Of God, I just find this release unnecessary. Why are both versions in it? The remix isn't being sold by itself at all, the original album still had plenty of copies in that same cd rack... it just baffles me. There aren't even any bonus tracks besides the ones that were already there. It's just more money for two discs of the same music, just one has an improved mix. Not that I ever had a problem with the original mix.
Because if there are 2 CDs in the package, then every sale it makes will count as "2 albums". Which I always thought was kind of a stupid rule when it came to CD sales, but hey, if it's there, why not exploit it?
Anyway, I like the album just fine. It's not at the top of my rotation, but when I feel like listening to something heavy but not aggressive, it satisfies every time. And I found the old school re-recordings enjoyable too. Always good to hear a different interpretation of beloved classics.
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I don't really get the hate for this album.
Well, I think it has to do with:
good music is good music
You are right. But the problem is that there is none on this album. Zero. It's just bad in every way. Yeah, some people will hate on it simply because it is Geoff Tate trying to make a buck off the Queensryche name by passing off Jason Slater's songs and his hired guns as "Queensryche." But the bigger issue is that it is just a lousy album full of bland, uninspired tripe.
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As much as I wanted to completely hate FU I thought it was ok. It may be his best solo album (although that isn't saying much.) I find it funny that this special edition comes out a few weeks after said that he closed the door on that chapter of his life. I guess not until he squeezes the last few dollars out of it.
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You are right. But the problem is that there is none on this album. Zero. It's just bad in every way. Yeah, some people will hate on it simply because it is Geoff Tate trying to make a buck off the Queensryche name by passing off Jason Slater's songs and his hired guns as "Queensryche." But the bigger issue is that it is just a lousy album full of bland, uninspired tripe.
What can I say? I disagree.
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You are right. But the problem is that there is none on this album. Zero. It's just bad in every way. Yeah, some people will hate on it simply because it is Geoff Tate trying to make a buck off the Queensryche name by passing off Jason Slater's songs and his hired guns as "Queensryche." But the bigger issue is that it is just a lousy album full of bland, uninspired tripe.
What can I say? I disagree.
Couldn't be Geoff....must be Slater. :angel:
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You are right. But the problem is that there is none on this album. Zero. It's just bad in every way. Yeah, some people will hate on it simply because it is Geoff Tate trying to make a buck off the Queensryche name by passing off Jason Slater's songs and his hired guns as "Queensryche." But the bigger issue is that it is just a lousy album full of bland, uninspired tripe.
What can I say? I disagree.
Couldn't be Geoff....must be Slater. :angel:
You got me!
Although had you posted earlier, maybe I would've seen our avatar and said, "Well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
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:lol
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I like The Weight Of The World and In The Hands Of God, I just find this release unnecessary. Why are both versions in it? The remix isn't being sold by itself at all, the original album still had plenty of copies in that same cd rack... it just baffles me. There aren't even any bonus tracks besides the ones that were already there. It's just more money for two discs of the same music, just one has an improved mix. Not that I ever had a problem with the original mix.
Because if there are 2 CDs in the package, then every sale it makes will count as "2 albums". Which I always thought was kind of a stupid rule when it came to CD sales, but hey, if it's there, why not exploit it?
Anyway, I like the album just fine. It's not at the top of my rotation, but when I feel like listening to something heavy but not aggressive, it satisfies every time. And I found the old school re-recordings enjoyable too. Always good to hear a different interpretation of beloved classics.
Really? IMO, they are jjust too painful to listen to.
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Really? IMO, they are jjust too painful to listen to.
They're on key, and not played sloppily. That's all I need. Again, not definitively, but I sure as heck don't skip them when I listen to the album.
Although I do think it was unnecessary, and a very cheap way to try and sell the album with "new versions" of beloved classics.
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Really? IMO, they are jjust too painful to listen to.
They're on key, and not played sloppily. That's all I need. Again, not definitively, but I sure as heck don't skip them when I listen to the album.
Although I do think it was unnecessary, and a very cheap way to try and sell the album with "new versions" of beloved classics.
But, see, that is my main issue with everything I have heard from the album. Unlike a lot of people on this forum, when someone says they like something I do not like or vice versa, I am normally content to just let it lie because tastes and opinions differ, and there is no right or wrong in that regard. But this album is actually objectively bad because it is NOT on key and it IS played sloppily. (It also contains what I consider to be bad songwriting/lyric writing, but those are subjective judgments, so I will leave that alone) Add to that vocal delivery that is just improper singing technique, and I just cannot fathom why anyone could call this a good album. Mind you, I have no problem with someone saying something like, "this is heavily flawed, but I can look past that and enjoy it anyway." Hey, if you dig it, warts and all, cool. But saying it doesn't have those flaws is baffling to me.
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I'm afraid I have to side with Siskel on this one. Thumbs WAY down...
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I'm afraid I have to side with Siskel on this one. Thumbs WAY down...
Just stop that right now! Let's talk about football or religion instead so we can get back to disagreeing.
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:lol
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The deluxe edition no one asked for! :lol I was giggling when I saw this thing at the store. Why not just sell the new mix by itself? The regular edition was still being sold here.
I don't really get the hate for this album. I think it's pretty awesome. Sure, it's not classic Queensryche, and Jeoff Tate is a bit of a dick, but good music is good music, and I enjoy it quite a bit. Although I'm just fine with the original mix. Who's Billy Sherwood and what makes his mix so much better?
Cold was a decent little tune but the rest is just rubbish.
You're review of it when it came out was I think the single greatest post I've ever read.
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But, see, that is my main issue with everything I have heard from the album. Unlike a lot of people on this forum, when someone says they like something I do not like or vice versa, I am normally content to just let it lie because tastes and opinions differ, and there is no right or wrong in that regard. But this album is actually objectively bad because it is NOT on key and it IS played sloppily. (It also contains what I consider to be bad songwriting/lyric writing, but those are subjective judgments, so I will leave that alone) Add to that vocal delivery that is just improper singing technique, and I just cannot fathom why anyone could call this a good album. Mind you, I have no problem with someone saying something like, "this is heavily flawed, but I can look past that and enjoy it anyway." Hey, if you dig it, warts and all, cool. But saying it doesn't have those flaws is baffling to me.
Well, I don't hear it. It's no masterpiece, but it just sounds like an average album to me.
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Cold was a decent little tune but the rest is just rubbish.
You're review of it when it came out was I think the single greatest post I've ever read.
Just for shits and giggles, I went and found it - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36090.msg1565339#msg1565339
Man that was a great read.
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Ha that is a great review! Pure anger.
I never bought FU but it can't be worse then Dedicated to Chaos. That is the biggest piece of shit I've ever heard bar none. I took my copy of DTC and launched it like a frisbee into a large garbage bin. Big smile too; I'm sure I would have done the same with fu
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Yeah, I don't recall anything on FU ever reaching the absurd stupidity of "That's how they do it on yooOOOUUtube, on yooOOOUUtube!" (I'm not ever letting that one get lived down. I remember just somehow being both angry and laughing my head off when I first heard that.). FU's just bland for the most part. DtC is almost painful to sit through.
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My sister bought me Dedicated To Cabaret for Christmas that year and it was hard to be honest when she asked me what I thought of it - but I had to ;D She's a QR fan too and would've asked me to play it for her if I said it was good. I couldn't do that to myself.
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Cold was a decent little tune but the rest is just rubbish.
You're review of it when it came out was I think the single greatest post I've ever read.
Just for shits and giggles, I went and found it - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36090.msg1565339#msg1565339
Man that was a great read.
That IS a great read. :lol
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Yeah, I don't recall anything on FU ever reaching the absurd stupidity of "That's how they do it on yooOOOUUtube, on yooOOOUUtube!" (I'm not ever letting that one get lived down. I remember just somehow being both angry and laughing my head off when I first heard that.). FU's just bland for the most part. DtC is almost painful to sit through.
I'm still suffering post-traumatic episodes caused by the Wot We Do video. I can't hear the word "delicious" without reflexively gagging.
The sad thing about DtC is that there's potentially quite a few decent tracks on it, but Tate destroyed them with the most tragic set of mid-life crisis lyrics he could possibly have written.
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Cold was a decent little tune but the rest is just rubbish.
You're review of it when it came out was I think the single greatest post I've ever read.
Just for shits and giggles, I went and found it - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36090.msg1565339#msg1565339
Man that was a great read.
lol, I forgot about that, but thanks for the compliment Chad. Reading it back again I can really tell how angry I was by some spelling mistakes and other errors haha, especially in that first paragraph. I don't think I've listened to it again since that review, and I don't intend too.
I am quite impressed with that review reading back haha.
Speaking of DTC, I didn't mind that album. I never listen to it, but for what it was, it was okay. FU is just on another level in terms of mediocrity.
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A number of items have dropped in price.
The guitars were $7K I think, now $4K. Drum kit is $10K vs original $15K.
I think the hand written lyric sheet was more than $75 to start and your name in the liner notes was more than $150 too, but I'm not 100% sure.
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If the guitars dropped to 2K, I'd seriously consider it.
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Metal All Stars with Geoff Tate - Jet City Woman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvcXvAZ2Nbk
That first verse... :|
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Well that's one way to make Geoff look good ;D
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Do you think the whole band just agreed to pawn the fuck out of him with that verse? :lol
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Do you think the whole band just agreed to pawn the fuck out of him with that verse? :lol
Do what?
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Do you think the whole band just agreed to pawn the fuck out of him with that verse? :lol
Do what?
I got the term wrong didn't I? 'pwn' is that it. I mean 'own' him, fuck him over.
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So they did that on purpose and it wasn't a huge cluster fuck all around?
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So they did that on purpose and it wasn't a huge cluster fuck all around?
I don't think so, I was just joking. But it does seem like they all fucked at the same when Geoff is suppose to start singing.
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I hope James LaBrie is doing better.
Also, was Jet City Woman written by Tate, or is that just the only song he's able to sort of sing properly anymore?
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Also, was Jet City Woman written by Tate, or is that just the only song he's able to sort of sing properly anymore?
No, he did not write it. And, no, he cannot sing it properly, unless you count croaking out half the lyrics to something that vaguely sounds like the original vocal melody with the song tuned down a full step. But he knows it is one of the songs people recognize, so he does it.
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Also, was Jet City Woman written by Tate, or is that just the only song he's able to sort of sing properly anymore?
No, he did not write it. And, no, he cannot sing it properly, unless you count croaking out half the lyrics to something that vaguely sounds like the original vocal melody with the song tuned down a full step. But he knows it is one of the songs people recognize, so he does it.
That's why I said sort of. Like bad karaoke.
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I hope James LaBrie is doing better.
James is doing fine, but if you're familiar with Impermanent Resonance, you'll know that this is not how I Got You is supposed to sound. Hell, even if this is your first time with the song, you'll see how awful the backing band on it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15zTFKBS_0w :biggrin:
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I hope James LaBrie is doing better.
James is doing fine, but if you're familiar with Impermanent Resonance, you'll know that this is not how I Got You is supposed to sound. Hell, even if this is your first time with the song, you'll see how awful the backing band on it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15zTFKBS_0w :biggrin:
Yeah, that's a pretty big screw up. :neverusethis:
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Also, was Jet City Woman written by Tate, or is that just the only song he's able to sort of sing properly anymore?
No, he did not write it. And, no, he cannot sing it properly, unless you count croaking out half the lyrics to something that vaguely sounds like the original vocal melody with the song tuned down a full step. But he knows it is one of the songs people recognize, so he does it.
Well, he did write it. At least the lyrics. Which are generally believed to be 50 percent of a song's creative worth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_City_Woman#cite_note-1
https://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=22460
Just reading the last page of this thread, I have a concern to raise. If users are expected to be respectful to all members of Dream Theater, does this also extend to members of other bands? Because whatever Geoff Tate may be guilty of, does it not lower the standards of the entire DTF board when we rip personally on Geoff in this thread? (I would say the same point is beginning to apply to the Mike Portnoy thread). This thread is edging close to the comments you might find on Blabbermouth. Something to be avoided me-thinks :)
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Well, he did write it. At least the lyrics. Which are generally believed to be 50 percent of a song's creative worth.
Writing some of the lyrics is not the same thing as writing the song. So, no, Geoff Tate did not write Jet City Woman. And I have no idea why you say lyrics "are generally believed to be 50 percent of a song's creative worth." That is not generally considered true in the music industry, and I do not believe I have ever heard anyone say they believe that (well, except maybe Geoff Tate, who apparently believes that writing lyrics is all that matters).
Just reading the last page of this thread, I have a concern to raise. If users are expected to be respectful to all members of Dream Theater, does this also extend to members of other bands?
No. This is a Dream Theater discussion forum, not a Dream Theater and other bands discussion forum. The purpose of this forum is not to promote other bands. People are free to discuss things other than Dream Theater (and are encouraged to do so, if they like), but that is not the purpose of this forum. People are free to be critical, provided they do not bait or attack others in doing so.
And I am not sure what comments about Tate you are referring to, but the vast majority of what is in this thread about him is either factual or is opinion about his performances, so I'm not sure what in particular you are taking issue with.
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Geoff Tate is a raging douche nozzle, and deserves any negativity towards him... except physical violence.... But I hold out hope that James LaBrie kicks him in the nuts on the all stars tour.
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Okay, well maybe some posts in this thread have crossed the "bad taste" line just a bit...
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Just reading the last page of this thread, I have a concern to raise. If users are expected to be respectful to all members of Dream Theater, does this also extend to members of other bands? Because whatever Geoff Tate may be guilty of, does it not lower the standards of the entire DTF board when we rip personally on Geoff in this thread? (I would say the same point is beginning to apply to the Mike Portnoy thread). This thread is edging close to the comments you might find on Blabbermouth. Something to be avoided me-thinks :)
Sorry mate, since you're talking about Geoff Tate, your arguments are invalid. This board has always shown respect and I have never wanted to discuss music with such fine, mature people.
Most of us here that talk shit about Geoff have been long time fans of the band and are just giving Geoff back the lack of respect he gives his fans.
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Most of us here that talk shit about Geoff have been long time fans of the band and are just giving Geoff back the lack of respect he gives his fans.
... That's what I meant.
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I don't think so, I was just joking. But it does seem like they all fucked at the same when Geoff is suppose to start singing.
The self preservation instinct can be a powerful thing....
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That Jet City Woman clip was hard to watch.
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That Jet City Woman clip was hard to watch.
Which is why I didn't watch it.
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James, on the other hand, sounds great. Much better band too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GWc0UXzqb0
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James, on the other hand, sounds great. Much better band too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GWc0UXzqb0
Except on I Got You.
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I'll admit that I did make a post a few pages back that was "borderline" nasty and abusive about GT. However, I think that WK's comment about that subject just about covers my feelings about it as well. I'd be ecstatic if he redeemed himself and proved every negative feeling that many of us have about him wrong. GT has a very long way to go to ever get to that point, though.
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That Jet City Woman clip was hard to watch.
Which is why I didn't watch it.
I watched about 45 seconds, then I said what the hell am I doing and turned it off.
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I hope James LaBrie is doing better.
James is doing fine, but if you're familiar with Impermanent Resonance, you'll know that this is not how I Got You is supposed to sound. Hell, even if this is your first time with the song, you'll see how awful the backing band on it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15zTFKBS_0w :biggrin:
Yeah, that's a pretty big screw up. :neverusethis:
aaaaaaaaaaah shit I was sending this to someone else :lol :lol :lol
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Anyway, speaking of Queensryche. Honestly, I'm not too impressed by the incentives for the fundraising campaign. Some of the higher ones in the $100s are pretty amazing, and really well priced for die hard Queensryche fans, but nothing in the double digits makes me want to pay for this album ahead of time.
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Queensryche announced last night that they will be opening for The Scorpions during their fall North American tour! Some great exposure for the guys with a new album out!
Dates so far:
Sep. 10 - Blue Hills Bank Pavilion - Boston, MA
Sep. 12 - Barclays Center - Brooklyn, NY
Sep. 13 - Meadowbrook - Gilford, NH
Sep. 18 - Molson Canadian Amphitheatre - Toronto, ON
Sep. 19 - Bell Centre - Montreal, QC
Sep. 22 - LC Pavilion - Columbus, OH
Sep. 23 - Jacobs Pavilion at Nautica - Cleveland, OH
Sep. 25 - Caesar’s Windsor - Windsor, ON
Sep. 26 - Allstate Arena - Chicago, IL
Oct. 01 - SAP Center - San Jose, CA
Oct. 03 - The Forum - Los Angeles, CA
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Hopefully more dates are added
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That is great news. They are never going to rise back out of obscurity if they do not do more of this sort of promotion. Not sure what is holding them back.
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For fun, I just went to queensryche.com, and I realized that it forwards to Tate's new OperationMindcrime band (operationmindcrime.com). I'm surprised the queensryche.com domain didn't go to the real QR guys.
:huh:
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For fun, I just went to queensryche.com, and I realized that it forwards to Tate's new OperationMindcrime band (operationmindcrime.com). I'm surprised the queensryche.com domain didn't go to the real QR guys.
:huh:
https://queensrycheofficial.com/
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For fun, I just went to queensryche.com, and I realized that it forwards to Tate's new OperationMindcrime band (operationmindcrime.com). I'm surprised the queensryche.com domain didn't go to the real QR guys.
:huh:
Tate's people had control of the website, facebook, and other such sites before the split. So before any legal issues got settled the guys had to create all new pages for everything. While that was clearly bullshit, at the time there was no other choice. Having then built up their new site and social media pages it likely wasn't worth the hassle of trying to completely shut down the old stuff. Easier to just let Geoff have it and be done. Considering the only following he is going to have going forward is clingers on from his time in Queensryche, you can bet he would have drawn things out even more had they made a serious attempt to take that.
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The fact that this thread has languished for so long and was bumped only, basically, because of a mistake is a good indication of this band's trajectory. Sad to say that any bump in goodwill and popularity the band saw when they released their last album is a faded memory that has been squandered by them sitting on their hands and doing pretty much nothing. As much as I hate to say it, it looks like Geoff was right about the band's lack of motivation and business savvy.
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You could argue that they haven't done enough publicity but IMO they haven't been inactive at all. They're gigging all through April (incl.MOR Cruise) and have been providing at least weekly studio updates/outtakes on the new album to their Pledgers. Two Facebook updates in the last 24 hrs. There's a lot worse out there.
Tate has had one Facebook update in 2 months and no news on his website since 2014. No real gigs either of late aside from those laughable tribute shows
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0HkqSayPtQz4Y1RWWepZC4xIb92LCmL9fuf5X6xBjJtyVqqgd) :lol
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You could argue that they haven't done enough publicity but IMO they haven't been inactive at all. They're gigging all through April (incl.MOR Cruise) and have been providing at least weekly studio updates/outtakes on the new album to their Pledgers. Two Facebook updates in the last 24 hrs. There's a lot worse out there.
Okay, fair enough. But publicity is a HUGE part of the equation. If enough people don't know what a band is doing, it doesn't really matter what the band is doing. And notwithstanding the gigs in April and the MOR cruises (they did last year as well), there really hasn't been the type of constant, sustained touring that they need to get the word out that they are a viable entity. And that's not even mentioning that, after Tateryche's Dedicated Chaos in 2011, the existing band has put out the sum total of half an album's worth of material since that time.
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I'm prepared to cut them a bit more slack ..........given all the legal wranglings and the stress involved in all that - to have done the 2011 album , the Dedicated To Cabaret tour/joke , break up in 2012 ,get out their admittedly short and rushed album in 2013 and be on track for what they must view as their most important album in ages in 2015 ......to me that's not too bad an effort. I think they'll take a bit more time with this one to try and make sure it's what the fans expect.
I don't have a feel for the publicity side of things as we certainly don't get any in Australia but being a long time fan (and I don't see them getting too many new ones) I just check their Facebook page where they are quite active. Any extra publicity outside of touring and social media may not deliver great bang for buck I'd have thought.
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I hear you, and you are right to an extent. But I was cutting them a lot of slack for a long time, and I guess I have just moved on to "show me!" mode. I just feel like too much time has gone by for me to just assume they will get back on track without actually seeing anything.
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I hear you, and you are right to an extent. But I was cutting them a lot of slack for a long time, and I guess I have just moved on to "show me!" mode. I just feel like too much time has gone by for me to just assume they will get back on track without actually seeing anything.
I've always felt that the "band" has a lot to prove. I hold them equally responsible for their decline as I do Tate. The first album with Todd was OK, but it was short, rushed, and while in the right direction, it was no means the masterpiece that a lot of people were making it out to be. I basically liken it to a long EP introducing their new singer.
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So you fixed the word "hold" so I could not razz you eh Tim?! :lol
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So you fixed the word "hold" so I could not razz you eh Tim?! :lol
:rollin
I posted that from home, and while I was waiting for my son at school I re-read it and noticed the mistake. I literally thought I better fix that before King sees it! :lol
Here's the vision that I had!
I old
You sure are! :lol
:lol
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For fun, I just went to queensryche.com, and I realized that it forwards to Tate's new OperationMindcrime band (operationmindcrime.com). I'm surprised the queensryche.com domain didn't go to the real QR guys.
:huh:
https://queensrycheofficial.com/
Sorry I never followed up on my comment. I did realize they have queensrycheofficial.com, but I'm shocked that the court settlement did not include something as simple as forwarding the queensryche.com domain to queensrycheofficial.com. To me, that would've been one of the more obvious and prominent things I would've wanted out of the settlement if I were the QR guys. It was the first time I typed in queensryche.com in a while and it just took me by surprise. That's a nice win for the Tate camp, in my opinion. He also got to keep Facebook page that has much more likes and just changed it to "Operation Mindcrime," I see.
Listening to the self-titled release for the first time in a while. The lackluster production quality prevented me from listening to it much in the past. It's solid, but like TAC said it feels more like an long EP introducing TLT. I hope they really knock it out of the park on their upcoming album.
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So you fixed the word "hold" so I could not razz you eh Tim?! :lol
:rollin
I posted that from home, and while I was waiting for my son at school I re-read it and noticed the mistake. I literally thought I better fix that before King sees it! :lol
Here's the vision that I had!
I old
You sure are! :lol
:lol
I was at work. Closing up and thought, "Should I mock him? Nah, I'll wait." Then you fixed it! :lol
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I'm prepared to cut them a bit more slack ..........given all the legal wranglings and the stress involved in all that - to have done the 2011 album , the Dedicated To Cabaret tour/joke , break up in 2012 ,get out their admittedly short and rushed album in 2013 and be on track for what they must view as their most important album in ages in 2015 ......to me that's not too bad an effort. I think they'll take a bit more time with this one to try and make sure it's what the fans expect.
I don't have a feel for the publicity side of things as we certainly don't get any in Australia but being a long time fan (and I don't see them getting too many new ones) I just check their Facebook page where they are quite active. Any extra publicity outside of touring and social media may not deliver great bang for buck I'd have thought.
What the fans expect? If they are worried about making sure that would they do lines up with the fans expect, then it has failure written all over it.
I just remember hearing how much Tate had stifled their creativity for years, and here we are, several years later, still wondering where it is?
Granted, I am not defending Tate, who is a Grade A A-Hole who had to go, but if the existing members really had so much bottled up inside them, where is it??
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I'm cutting the band major slack with everything. After DTC and the cabaret debacle, I lost major interest in the band and couldn't have cared less if they never released anything again. So at this point, anything they release with Todd, that rocks hard, is pure bonus for me and icing on the cake
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The fact that this thread has languished for so long and was bumped only, basically, because of a mistake is a good indication of this band's trajectory. Sad to say that any bump in goodwill and popularity the band saw when they released their last album is a faded memory that has been squandered by them sitting on their hands and doing pretty much nothing. As much as I hate to say it, it looks like Geoff was right about the band's lack of motivation and business savvy.
For the most part I agree. And as I have said over and over, I really had hoped they wouldn't have become a nostalgia act, but at this point it seems to be the inevitable. They had all that pent up creativity, and they managed a short album that frankly wasn't even in the same discussion as the classic material. Good? Sure. Better than Dedicated to Earrape? Absolutely. But the quality (in both songwriting and engineering) was not there, and so the album served as nothing more than a stylistic change, with no indication that change would ultimately be worth something. I would have cut them some slack, if they could have followed that up with live performances that included more than what, two(?) songs from the album, or another new album that improved upon it... but neither has come. And now they really have squandered a good bit of time.
Edit: All that said, as I've said before, they still are fantastic live, and if they just continually tour cycling material from the first 5 albums I will continue to go see them. I was hoping they might resurrect as a creative force, but that definitely does not seem to be the case.
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I'm cutting the band major slack with everything. After DTC and the cabaret debacle, I lost major interest in the band and couldn't have cared less if they never released anything again. So at this point, anything they release with Todd, that rocks hard, is pure bonus for me and icing on the cake
I can relate to that although I'm hoping for a lot more
What the fans expect? If they are worried about making sure that would they do lines up with the fans expect, then it has failure written all over it.
Right on they should try and please what's left of their old fan base and "meet expectations". And by expectations I mean very generally something that has the same strengths as albums like Rage For Order . Concise yet progressive , melodic yet heavy and plenty of boundary pushing.
Queensryche are in a far weaker position than DT were when Portnoy left as they alienated their old fanbase and produced nothing to attract new ones. DT disappointed some old fans - me included - but did a much better job of retaining a fair share and adding a younger fanbase , as is evident on DTF.
So to me Queensryche MUST produce something that meets the expectations of the diehards that remain before they can attract a decent number of new ones by word of mouth etc....... I'm not talking about the housewives who bought Empire to hear Silent Lucidity - they're long gone. I am talking in general terms and - perhaps I'm giving them too much credit - but I think the band have a fair idea of what's expected and I can see a plan there.
If I was in their shoes I may have done the same. Rush out a new album that's written and recorded quickly , but is decent enough to let fans know that the band are back in terms of rocking . If they hadn't done that then I probably would've lost interest by now. Then work through their best ideas and try to come up with something special to follow . I'll be the first to say the next album is shit if that's the case but I can see why they might be doing what they're doing , so we'll see. Hopefully I'm right.
And I can see a few similarities in the way DT went about things after MP left - although clearly ADTOE is a far better effort than Queensryche S/t.
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For the people that bought the latest QR album with Todd on vocals...how is this holding up for you guys? Are you still spinning it?
I decided not to buy it because the whole thing seemed like a rush job to get something out there. I heard lots of complaints about
the sonic quality but most people liked the songs. I guess I'm asking if you are glad you bought it or not?
I'm on the fence. Patiently waiting on the new one which I will buy for sure as long as the production is good.
Thanks.
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Rarely do I have an issue with the production, but this album is certainly an example of bad sound making me not want to play an album. Even though some songs on it (Redemption, Where dreams go to die, In this light) are pretty great.
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For the people that bought the latest QR album with Todd on vocals...how is this holding up for you guys? Are you still spinning it?
I decided not to buy it because the whole thing seemed like a rush job to get something out there. I heard lots of complaints about
the sonic quality but most people liked the songs. I guess I'm asking if you are glad you bought it or not?
I'm on the fence. Patiently waiting on the new one which I will buy for sure as long as the production is good.
Thanks.
I think the production will be much better on this one. They brought on Chris "Zeuss" Harris to produce and engineer the album. He did the Sanctuary record last year, which sounded fantastic.
Plus, the guys had a really short timeline to record the last one and it showed. This time they're releasing it at their leisure.
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For the people that bought the latest QR album with Todd on vocals...how is this holding up for you guys? Are you still spinning it?
I decided not to buy it because the whole thing seemed like a rush job to get something out there. I heard lots of complaints about
the sonic quality but most people liked the songs. I guess I'm asking if you are glad you bought it or not?
I'm on the fence. Patiently waiting on the new one which I will buy for sure as long as the production is good.
Thanks.
I still like it A LOT. I pretty much feel the way I did when it came out: Overall, good effort. But some of the songs are just too short, and so is the album length overall, due to short songs and not enough songs. Only 9 full songs, and the track lengths are mostly about 3:30 minutes, with one coming in at 2:46. But that is the only criticism I have. Really solid effort overall.
As far as the production, yeah, it is brickwalled. If that is a deal breaker for you, you will hate this album. If you can look past that and deal with it, there is a lot to like about this album. I am definitely glad I bought it.
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Some great songs, bad production. It makes my ears hurt after a few songs in.
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Thanks for the replies. I think I'll wait and hope that it might get remastered some day.
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I really like it and listen to it often. I have both the regular and deluxe edition. The mastering doesn't bother me at all actually. Recommended!!
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I think it sounds fine. Yes, it's mastered a little loud, but I have no issue with it at all.
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it's mastered a little loud
In the same way an air raid siren is a little loud.
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For the people that bought the latest QR album with Todd on vocals...how is this holding up for you guys? Are you still spinning it?
I decided not to buy it because the whole thing seemed like a rush job to get something out there. I heard lots of complaints about
the sonic quality but most people liked the songs. I guess I'm asking if you are glad you bought it or not?
I'm on the fence. Patiently waiting on the new one which I will buy for sure as long as the production is good.
Thanks.
I have the iTunes download version with the 2 bonus tracks, En Force and Queen of the Reich Live. They are my favorite tracks, but the album is pretty good as rock albums go, but relatively short. The new Queensryche will never match the original line up, but I'm cool with it. Great things never last and must end sometime. I have all the old classic stuff and that's good enough for me. Listened to Promised Land earlier today. What a treat that was. Love it. :)
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I have the iTunes download version with the 2 bonus tracks, En Force and Queen of the Reich Live.
There were three, actually. You don't have The Prophecy?
The new Queensryche will never match the original line up...
True, but IMO this album comes REALLY close.
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I'd take it over Promised Land, that's for sure.
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I'd take it over Promised Land, that's for sure.
I probably would too - although Promised LAnd has a gem on it that's one of my all time faves and ranks higher for me than anything on QR s/t (One More Time) . Other than that I rate Promised Land lower than most.
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I'd take it over Promised Land, that's for sure.
I probably would too - although Promised LAnd has a gem on it that's one of my all time faves and ranks higher for me than anything on QR s/t (One More Time) . Other than that I rate Promised Land lower than most.
I think you and I are the only two here that think this. Personally I love Damaged, but that album is pretty terrible IMO.
I will say though, that the songs were all much better live as that tour was freaking incredible.
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I love Promised Land and I think that the title track is one of the greatest songs that the band has ever released.
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Same here.
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bosk knows his QR!
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I have the iTunes download version with the 2 bonus tracks, En Force and Queen of the Reich Live.
There were three, actually. You don't have The Prophecy?
Unfortunately I don't. Maybe a later version of the download had it? Not sure. I have the original bonus track on CD though. :biggrin:
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bosk knows his QR!
Yeah, Quiet Riot maybe.. ;D
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:lol
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SLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK CADILLAC! :metal
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I don't see where the iTunes version of the self-titled album includes The Prophecy as a bonus track. You must've been talking about another album Bosk.
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Not sure about iTunes. I have a hard copy (CD) that includes all three. That sucks that it is apparently only available if you buy a hard copy of the album.
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Oh ok, that explains it. I thought you had a downloaded version of the release with the bonus track. I've seen that before with other band's releases of bonus material. It's unfortunate. Oh well... :-\
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Sounds good to me............
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-new-material-is-sounding-really-great/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blabbermouth+%28Blabbermouth.net%27s+Daily+Headlines%29
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I'm liking the sounds of that too!
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I can't help but to have really high expectations for this, but I'm pretty sure they will deliver.
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Same here.
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I can't help but to have really high expectations for this, but I'm pretty sure they will deliver.
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I was pretty nervous when Queensryche released their first album with Todd, but with this new one, I am 100% confident. The self-titled album contained what is easily their strongest material in many, many years (especially Where Dreams go to Die, A World Without, Open Road, In This Light, and Spore), and the only complaints I had were the godawful production and disappointing running time. I am sure the new album will be a huge improvement in both production and length.
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Today is a very special day. After much time, hard work, and dedication, the recording is complete! Today we give a full listen to the new Queensr˙che album from front to back with our producer Zeuss before final mixing/mastering takes place. Feeling very elated
FLICK YA
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Nice!
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Bring it on.
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Let's hope they don't destroy it in the mastering stage.
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Great news!!!
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Let's hope they don't destroy it in the mastering stage.
Several people in the FB comments brought that up. Todd responded to one of them saying something to the effect that they had it under control.
I took that to mean that they are aware of the issues with the last album and are keeping their eye out to make sure it doesn't happen again.
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Let's hope they don't destroy it in the mastering stage.
Several people in the FB comments brought that up. Todd responded to one of them saying something to the effect that they had it under control.
I took that to mean that they are aware of the issues with the last album and are keeping their eye out to make sure it doesn't happen again.
It's amazing how much more transparent the band is with the public with Todd compared to the Geoff days.
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So when is the album supposed to be released (roughly)? On a whim I decided to do the pledge music thing (I didn't even buy their last album, I'll have to check it out again now to get me pumped for the new one). The only thing I saw was in the overview summary on the pledge site saying that the album will be out "next year" but I don't know if that was posted late last year or early this year. Everything I've read so far in interviews and such has sounded pretty promising (yes, I know, that's the point of interviews, so you have to take it with a grain of salt).
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So when is the album supposed to be released (roughly)? On a whim I decided to do the pledge music thing (I didn't even buy their last album, I'll have to check it out again now to get me pumped for the new one). The only thing I saw was in the overview summary on the pledge site saying that the album will be out "next year" but I don't know if that was posted late last year or early this year. Everything I've read so far in interviews and such has sounded pretty promising (yes, I know, that's the point of interviews, so you have to take it with a grain of salt).
Going from memory, I read something (an interview with either Eddy, or Mike) that they were looking at September or October of this year. It's been a few weeks since I've read the interview, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'm fairly positive that it's supposed to be out in the fall.
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So when is the album supposed to be released (roughly)? On a whim I decided to do the pledge music thing (I didn't even buy their last album, I'll have to check it out again now to get me pumped for the new one). The only thing I saw was in the overview summary on the pledge site saying that the album will be out "next year" but I don't know if that was posted late last year or early this year. Everything I've read so far in interviews and such has sounded pretty promising (yes, I know, that's the point of interviews, so you have to take it with a grain of salt).
I don't remember the date of when the pledge was started and there's nothing posted on the site about when it began. But it does look like it started sometime towards the end of last year, judging by comments in this thread as well as the oldest video clips that you can watch on the pledge music site. In addition to that didn't Todd just post something recently that they completed the recording of the album and will be moving on to mixing/mastering? If so, that would give them plenty of time to release the album before the end of this year. So theoretically, I'd guess that it will be released between September and December of this year.
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Excellent, thanks for the updates! I haven't been following it very closely, so any info I've likely missed.
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Whip has said a few times in recent interviews it will be late September / early October, to coincide with their supporting slot with the Scorps. :metal
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last fall the released date was spring. at the new year it was late spring/early summer. now its looking like September.
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Whip has said a few times in recent interviews it will be late September / early October, to coincide with their supporting slot with the Scorps. :metal
I just hope that this means the band will actually play most/all of their new songs live while touring with the Scorps, rather than just playing a couple and having a setlist of largely the same-old's they've been playing for three years now.
It's high-time that the band mixes up the setlist a bit more.
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Hopefully one of two tunes from Promised Land get played
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I wouldn't hold my breath waiting to hear something new played live as they hardly ever play anything from the 2013 release.
The band is in full nostalgia mode and seem to have determined they are best suited to play with other nostalgia-type acts, which unfortunately means a lot of 80's hair metal bands. I think they've missed their window to completely re-establish themselves as the "thinking mans metal band", but its their band and if they are happy so be it.
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I find it ironic that the band complained about being restricted to playing certain songs in the last few years with Tate, yet they've restricted themselves to playing pretty much the same set with the new line-up for 2 years now. :P I've never seen them live, but it just seems weird to me.
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I find it ironic that the band complained about being restricted to playing certain songs in the last few years with Tate, yet they've restricted themselves to playing pretty much the same set with the new line-up for 2 years now. :P I've never seen them live, but it just seems weird to me.
Not really the same thing. What they were complaining about was that Tate wanted the set lists to revolve around: (1) "hits" from Mindcrime and Empire; (2) new material that the band and fans didn't like; and (3) whatever else was in his diminished range. And that that excluded a lot of the classic, harder material that the band and fans wanted to be played. Now, they are playing what they (and most of the fans) want.
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Interview with Todd - the interviewer is an interesting "dude" too :lol
https://youtu.be/vN76YWvHntk
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Looking forward to seeing Todd live for the first tI'm in September.
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I just found out today that they are playing here in St. Louis at a venue I didn't know existed :lol, which is less than 10 minutes from where I live. And tickets are cheap. What the hell, I might go.
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I just found out today that they are playing here in St. Louis at a venue I didn't know existed :lol, which is less than 10 minutes from where I live. And tickets are cheap. What the hell, I might go.
Is this place a hole in the wall?
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I think it's a tiny hole in a hole. :lol :lol
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I think it's a tiny hole in a hole. :lol :lol
Are you sure it's not Tate's band? ;D
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https://queensrycheofficial.com/tour
You tell me. :P
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I think it's a tiny hole in a hole. :lol :lol
Are you sure it's not Tate's band? ;D
If that were true it would be at a dinner theater Tim. :lol
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https://queensrycheofficial.com/tour (https://queensrycheofficial.com/tour)
You tell me. :P
It's interesting to see some of those posters with Dream Theater getting top billing over Queensryche. The band with one gold record is now the bigger draw than the band with multi-platinum mega-hits.
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https://queensrycheofficial.com/tour (https://queensrycheofficial.com/tour)
You tell me. :P
It's interesting to see some of those posters with Dream Theater getting top billing over Queensryche. The band with one gold record is now the bigger draw than the band with multi-platinum mega-hits.
I remember during the QR/DT/FW tour in 2003 that QR and DT split the role as headliner -- QR headlined the westcoast and DT headline the eastcoast, I believe. Their popularity was pretty even at that point.
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I hope they can re-establish a bit of a relationship on those couple of dates, and maybe strike a rapport that leads to another tour together.
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Listening to QR's Promised Land today at work. I have this album ranked as my all-time favorite album (DT's Awake is #2; Fates Warning's APSOG is #3), but it's been a while since I've listened to it start to finish. Damn, this album is so well-crafted. I love everything about it. What an absolute gem.
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https://queensrycheofficial.com/tour (https://queensrycheofficial.com/tour)
You tell me. :P
It's interesting to see some of those posters with Dream Theater getting top billing over Queensryche. The band with one gold record is now the bigger draw than the band with multi-platinum mega-hits.
Yeah, and aside from last year QR hasn't been as consistent touring Europe as DT has.
That and you add how one band was well-maintained for years while the other was nearly ruined due to over-touring says a lot. Oh well, it will be cool to see them both together!
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Listening to QR's Promised Land today at work. I have this album ranked as my all-time favorite album (DT's Awake is #2; Fates Warning's APSOG is #3), but it's been a while since I've listened to it start to finish. Damn, this album is so well-crafted. I love everything about it. What an absolute gem.
It took a while to click but it's one of my favorites too.
The title track is one of the coolest songs the band has ever done
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Listening to QR's Promised Land today at work. I have this album ranked as my all-time favorite album (DT's Awake is #2; Fates Warning's APSOG is #3), but it's been a while since I've listened to it start to finish. Damn, this album is so well-crafted. I love everything about it. What an absolute gem.
I have the same top 3 ;)
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Listening to QR's Promised Land today at work. I have this album ranked as my all-time favorite album (DT's Awake is #2; Fates Warning's APSOG is #3), but it's been a while since I've listened to it start to finish. Damn, this album is so well-crafted. I love everything about it. What an absolute gem.
It took a while to click but it's one of my favorites too.
The title track is one of the coolest songs the band has ever done
Agreed. I was kinda disappointed in the album when it first came out, but it really clicked for me when I saw them live on that tour.
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Listening to QR's Promised Land today at work. I have this album ranked as my all-time favorite album (DT's Awake is #2; Fates Warning's APSOG is #3), but it's been a while since I've listened to it start to finish. Damn, this album is so well-crafted. I love everything about it. What an absolute gem.
I have the same top 3 ;)
For reals?? That's so funny and cool. Dare I ask what your #4 is? Mine is Redemption's Snowfall on Judgment Day.
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Listening to QR's Promised Land today at work. I have this album ranked as my all-time favorite album (DT's Awake is #2; Fates Warning's APSOG is #3), but it's been a while since I've listened to it start to finish. Damn, this album is so well-crafted. I love everything about it. What an absolute gem.
It took a while to click but it's one of my favorites too.
The title track is one of the coolest songs the band has ever done
Agreed. I was kinda disappointed in the album when it first came out, but it really clicked for me when I saw them live on that tour.
The tour was great, and the songs translated much better live, but I still cannot get into the album. I still think it's terrible.
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We know. You have said it many times. Saying it again does not make it any less egregiously wrong.
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We know. You have said it many times. Saying it again does not make it any less egregiously wrong.
No seriously, the tour was awesome! ;D
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We know. You have said it many times. Saying it again does not make it any less egregiously wrong.
No seriously, the tour was awesome! ;D
I know you don't like Promised Land, but I'm still more dumbfounded that you don't like Savatage. That band should be Tim 101.
The clips I've seen from the Promised Land tour are great
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I know you don't like Promised Land, but I'm still more dumbfounded that you don't like Savatage. That band should be Tim 101.
I'm strongly considering a Savatage Round when my Roulette gets underway.
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Listening to QR's Promised Land today at work. I have this album ranked as my all-time favorite album (DT's Awake is #2; Fates Warning's APSOG is #3), but it's been a while since I've listened to it start to finish. Damn, this album is so well-crafted. I love everything about it. What an absolute gem.
It took a while to click but it's one of my favorites too.
The title track is one of the coolest songs the band has ever done
Agreed. I was kinda disappointed in the album when it first came out, but it really clicked for me when I saw them live on that tour.
The tour was great, and the songs translated much better live, but I still cannot get into the album. I still think it's terrible.
*Backhands*
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Listening to QR's Promised Land today at work. I have this album ranked as my all-time favorite album (DT's Awake is #2; Fates Warning's APSOG is #3), but it's been a while since I've listened to it start to finish. Damn, this album is so well-crafted. I love everything about it. What an absolute gem.
I have the same top 3 ;)
For reals?? That's so funny and cool. Dare I ask what your #4 is? Mine is Redemption's Snowfall on Judgment Day.
Yes sir ;)
My #4 is Porcupine Tree - In Absentia
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To be honest, it took me a while to "get" Promised Land. When I first got into Queensryche (which was around the Q2K era), I was told by most of the QR fan establishment at the time that the band's good albums ended with Empire, so I did not immediately seek out the post-Empire albums for a while. When I first heard PL, I certainly didn't think it was bad (unlike Hear in the Now Frontier and Q2K, both of which I still hate, although they have a few select tracks I like), but I did not like it anywhere near as much as the band's 1981-1991 works. Technically, I suppose that is still true, as when it comes to rock music, I am first and foremost a progressive and melodic metal fan, and I would take any of those 81-91 albums over PL. That being said, the record has grown on me considerably over the years, and some of the tracks on there have a special place in my heart, particularly Damaged, Bridge, Promised Land, My Global Mind and Someone Else. It's the textbook definition of a "grower" album in my book.
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I like Promised Land, but I can fully understand people not really warming to it. It is hard to get into.
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I agree with Dark M that it is the definition of a grower album.
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I listened again to Promised Land last night, this time start to finish with no distractions at all in the quiet of my home. Wow. I'd say the only tracks that I don't head-over-heels love are "Lady Jane" and "My Global Mind," which I give an 8/10. The other songs get an 11 on a scale of 1-10.
Tate's singing on the title track is just sick. What emotion! He is pouring it all out, man. Unbelievable performance all around.
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PL is definitely one of those albums that really captures the vibe of a band in it's present state. The band is coming off the massive success of Empire, and now they're all fairly rich and wealthy. At the same time they seem to be struggling with success and all that it brought. I thought it was brilliantly made, and you definitely can feel the emotion pouring out of a lot of the songs.
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Looks like I have to give Promised Land a spin.
Thanks assholes! ;D
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Please don't. I don't particularly want to share it with you.
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Looks like I have to give Promised Land a spin.
Thanks assholes! ;D
Lol
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I don't want to share it with TAC either ,but for his own good :lol I must admit that on a recent listen I upgraded my thoughts on it a bit (and have always loved One More Time) but it's still right at the bottom of my rankings for anything pre-HINTF and I hit Skip halfway through the title track......
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Yeah, I'm going to give it a spin over the weekend. I will say that it's been a few years since I've heard it.
From what I Remember Now ;D
I Am I is an absolute mess.
Damaged is freaking AWESOME!
Bridge blows..Lucidity II?
I totally respect the title track. I actually think it's pretty cool.
Out Of Mind is useless as a studio track, but was BRILLIANT live.
When I hear Someone Else, I am thinking of someone else..Kiske!!
One More Time. Not a bad tune. Still would be considered weak if it were on Empire.
Disconnected..junk!
My Global Mind..useless.
Lady Jane..Blows.
But I'll go through it just to be sure.
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One More Time is my favourite track on PL.
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One More Time is my favourite track on PL.
First time someone has agreed with me on that - I think I will apply to be your apprentice ;D
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Accepted :zydar:
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Man I love Bridge.
Tim, you hurt me. :lol
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One More Time is my favourite track on PL.
No issue there. It's a good tune amongst some junk.
Man I love Bridge.
Lyrically, I think it's impressive. But Bridge was the first tune I heard from the album and it was an instant turn off.
One of my issues with Empire was that although it is a great album, I felt like they were moving in another direction that I was fearful of. And when I heard Bridge, I was horrified. Like What happened to Queensryche horrified! I think before the show, the only other track I had heard was I Am I, which as I said is a total mess.
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After Chris left was when I was worried.
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After Chris left was when I was worried.
Apparently he left right after the Empire tour!
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I Am I is an absolute mess.
I...just don't even understand this.
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I Am I is an absolute mess.
I...just don't even understand this.
I agree. Every time I hear it, I never understand it either.
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To each his own. I dug it.
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I Am I is an absolute mess.
I...just don't even understand this.
I agree. Every time I hear it, I never understand it either.
I don't think it's a mess, but it was one of the worst possible choices they would have made for a lead off single. The vocal melodies are far too awkward and odd for a single. Singles are supposed to have big, easily memorable sing-a-along vocal melodies. I Am I, while a fine song, has none of that.
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I agree that it wasn't a great choice for a single, but it's still a killer tune. :metal
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I just went for a short ride with PL in the van. Got through I Am I and Damaged, and my opinions are the same.
Damaged is great!
I had always hoped I Am I would be a late bloomer for me, but it never happened. I didn't "get" RFO when it came out, but man, as time has gone by, that album is genius. I was picturing IAI falling into the same trend. I can't stand the vocals on it, and I don't feel it takes me anywhere.
Not ragging here, just discussing. :)
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Damaged is the first song I ever got a speeding ticket to. :lol :lol
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Damaged is the first song I ever got a speeding ticket to. :lol :lol
I can see that!
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I Am I is an absolute mess.
I...just don't even understand this.
I agree. Every time I hear it, I never understand it either.
I don't think it's a mess, but it was one of the worst possible choices they would have made for a lead off single. The vocal melodies are far too awkward and odd for a single. Singles are supposed to have big, easily memorable sing-a-along vocal melodies. I Am I, while a fine song, has none of that.
For me, it was the single I always wanted from QR. I have never cared for their "singles". Walk in the Shadows is certainly one of the lesser tracks from RFO, I would say the same of THotF and Warning. Never cared for Eyes of a Stranger as much as everyone else does, and Another Rainy Night and Jet City Woman are among some of the worst songs they ever recorded. I would put all of Q2K above those two.
But I Am I was actually the song that won me back to QR. I had been so completely disappointed by Empire, and I pretty much figured that QR had become a hit machine and were never going to be the "thinking man's metal band" ever again. When I heard I Am I as a lead off single, I was completely blown away. Promised Land remains my second favorite QR album, and I've nicknamed it "Rage for Order...with a budget" :lol
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J-Dude, I think you are doing Queensryche backwards! :lol
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Just wondering, have they done any PL songs with Todd live?
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Just wondering, have they done any PL songs with Todd live?
Not yet. But I've seen hints that they have heard the fanbase continually requesting it. I don't remember the exact wording, but it seemed to me that it wasn't out of the question.
I wouldn't even mind if they dusted off The Right Side of My Mind. STILL the best post-PL track I've heard from them.
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J-Dude, I think you are doing Queensryche backwards! :lol
Jammindude....doing Queensryche backwards since 1984! :tup
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J-Dude, I think you are doing Queensryche backwards! :lol
Jammindude....doing Queensryche backwards since 1984! :tup
Right there with you bro. Had the EP long before Warning came out. Such an exciting band at that time. Never really heard anything like them.
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I like your take on "I Am I ," jammindude!
I also wanted to point out that a big part of what makes PL extra special for me are the lyrics. I'm also discussing PL on fcebook with a friend and he said: "The humanity, presence, angst, reality, dispair and hope in this album. Christ almighty." That says it all for me. Tate held nothing back lyrically.
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Damaged is the first song I ever got a speeding ticket to. :lol :lol
Damaged pretty much saved the album for me initially. It took a while to appreciate the rest. I still can't stand Disconnected. Still,Damaged, Bridge, OutOfMind, PL, My Global Mind, One More Time, Someone Else all hit the spot eventually.
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Promised Land was my first Queesryche album, and Damaged was what hooked me in.
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I like your take on "I Am I ," jammindude!
:tup
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I also wanted to point out that a big part of what makes PL extra special for me are the lyrics. I'm also discussing PL on fcebook with a friend and he said: "The humanity, presence, angst, reality, dispair and hope in this album. Christ almighty." That says it all for me. Tate held nothing back lyrically.
I'll give you that, M.
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Just wondering, have they done any PL songs with Todd live?
Todd has said that they plan to. I think Scott may have said that as well.
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OK, well I took a run through Promised Land..twice.
My thoughts..
I Am I- I don't get it. I don't care for it at all. I feel it's messy, and it's just not pleasurable to my ears.
Damaged- Still an awesome tune. Easily the best on the album.
Out Of Mind-I have always raved about the live version, and have always thought the studio version was weak. That said, I thoroughly enjoyed my listens to this song. This one definitely gets raised in my eyes. I do have two issues with it though. Firstly, the placement on the album. Perhaps lyrically it belongs there, but after Damaged, it just sucks all of the momentum out of the beginning of the album.
Also, the guitar solo is INCREDIBLE, but it's way too short. At the end of the solo, the tempo picks up and the chorus returns. I wish they had continued the solo over the increased tempo. It truly would've turned a good song into a great one.
Bridge- Lyrically I'm sure it is quite impactful, and I would never hold that against anyone for liking it, but musically, it just brings nothing. I mean this i the mighty Queensryche we're talking about. They are so much better than this.
Promised Land- While I can certainly respect the effort on this song, and again, lyrically, I can see how they could be appreciated, I will say that this song has actually lost some of its shine. It's long, slow, bloated, and really goes nowhere. I need something more than this for 8:25.
Disconnected/Lady Jane Queensryche, by this point, had put out so much great music. These two songs are so far below what this band is capable of.
My Global Mind-It's OK. Don't love it, don't hate it. But very mediocre QR.
One More Time-Not a bad tune, but I feel like there's an untapped great tune here. It's missing something, but I just can't put my finger on it. Maybe if it had Empire's production, it would sound a bit fuller.
Someone Else- I love this song. Musically and lyrically. Seriously. The problem..the vocals. I admire the effort. I really do, but I feel like this is the first clue that Tate started to lose it. In fact:*
* The recording of the vocals is a major roadblock for me on this album. They vocals just sound weird to me, like they were being sung through some sort of machine. They feel like they are loaded with effects and do not sound very pure at all.
I know it's the old "TAC hates Promised Land", but in the end, I'm just discussing what I think after giving it a couple of fresh listens. My intent is NOT to rag on it.
I freaking LOVED Queensryche, literally from the release of the EP up through Empire. Because of the great Promised Land tour, I gave Hear In The Now Frontier a chance. QR essentially fell off the map for me after that. Which is too bad, and honestly, it was frustrating because as a teenager, Queensryche were a staple for me.
Promised Land certainly has a more laid back style and shows the Floydian influence, but as a hard rock fan following this hard rock band, I was caught completely off guard by this Floydian approach. never saw it coming, and I have never adjusted to it. They were probably the most thoughtful metal band of the 80's. Seriously, that's how strongly I feel about them. Queen Of The Ryche was game changing.
I guess bands change and evolve. And that's cool. I respect that. Look at Rush and Metallica. It's just that as the tracks wind, sometimes you get thrown off the train, which is what happened to me.
Pre Empire Queensryche, Pre Signals Rush, and Pre Black Album Metallica are all easily Top 10 bands for me, but in their totality, all three don't crack the Top 10. I hate that!
Anyway, thanks for reading. :)
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I get where you are coming from. I completely disagree with it and think you are nuts. But I get it. :)
I'll play too:
I Am I- What a different and amazingly bombastic way to start off an album. This song caught me off guard at first listen, but I warmed up to it VERY quickly. Spectacular. It really grabs you and sets up the journey ahead.
Damaged- VERY good song. In many ways, very straightforward. But enough interesting little twists on the "norm" to keep things interesting.
Out Of Mind- The live version really made me appreciate this song. I liked it before. But seeing it live made it have a much bigger impact on me.
Bridge- Good song, and very accessible. Very logical choice for a single. Nothing wrong with it. But it is not a favorite either.
Promised Land- Terrific effort. This song, I Am I, and Disconnected really show the band experimenting, and it worked. The lyrics, the vocals, and the music all blend seamlessly to create a very emotional, impactful epic.
Disconnected - I really love the trippy vibe of this song.
Lady Jane - Nothing wrong with this one, but it never grabbed me. The solo is pretty cool, but the rest of it just doesn't do it for me most of the time.
My Global Mind- Very good song. I wish it could have somehow been heavier. The lyrics are cool, and actually did a GOOD job of expounding the subject matter, which Geoff would do a horrendous job with on subsequent efforts about similar subject matter. Here, Queensryche was still in a mode where they could write thought-provoking lyrics that actually...provoked thought on the subject matter. Their lyrics often misfired on later efforts in either of 2 respects: (1) Rather than getting you to think, they told you what to think; and/or (2) they sounded so out of date and out of touch that you really don't want to think about what otherwise might be an interesting topic.
One More Time- I overlooked this song at first, but it was a grower and is one of my favorites. As with most of the rest of the album, great lyrics.
Someone Else- Good song. But not my favorite version. I like a good, stripped down piano ballad every now and then. And closing the album out on a soft note is brilliant. But this one...I've never really pinpointed why it doesn't work quite as well for me as I think it should, but I think you actually hit it, TAC. The full band version is good, but a bit too bombastic to end this particular album. I'm glad they decided at the last minute to scale it back for the album version. But I think maybe they scaled it too far, and I think the reason is Geoff. I won't say his vocals were bad. He could still sing. But I think his voice is just not suited to going from soft to soaring over soft music--at least by this point in time. My favorite version of this song is the live version from the tour. It struck a great compromise and added just enough instrumentation back in that Geoff's vocals seemed to fit better. But still, good song.
All in all, this is really a quality album. Over time, it has lost a bit of its luster. There are songs like Out of Mind that, although I can still appreciate them for being great pieces of music, I just don't feel drawn to listen to anymore. For that reason, I don't often find myself reaching for this album when I want a Queensryche fix. More often than not, I reach for Empire. So while I still feel that this is probably the better album, Promised Land usually sits at #2 in the rankings for me.
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I get where you are coming from. I completely disagree with it and think you are nuts. But I get it. :)
:)
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I think every song on Promised Land is f'ing great. Take that. :hat
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I know Bosk1 will be the only one to agree but I like HITNF more than Promise Land.
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As much as I love HITNF, that is just crazy talk.
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Well there you have it. I seem to gravitate to it more than PL. Maybe I'll play both tomorrow at work.
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I know Bosk1 will be the only one to agree but I like HITNF more than Promise Land.
I'm with ya, Bro!
And speaking of HITNF, I really liked what they set out to do with this. Strip it back kind of thing. I just think there's way too many iffy tracks. But I do love a bunch of them.
Other than Damaged, I like Anytime/Anywhere, Hit The Black, Sign Of The Times, Miles Away, and sp00L, over anything else on PL.
Also, HITNF has my favorite album sleeve band photo.
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I agree with kingshmegland: Some opinions are just wrong. :P
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Aside from the very uneven, and often mediocre, songwriting, one major problem with HITNF is its sound. The drums sound like total shit (too loud, yet no punch, and just very dry and flat).
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Yeah, but I think they were going for that, no? That said, everything about it showed a band in turmoil. I think the fact that a few of the tunes are at least catchy is completely by accident.
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HITNF is similar to Rush's Test for Echo for me in that I listened to both a ton (around the same time, ironically), in large part because at the time, I didn't listen to a lot of bands. I usually tend to go through long phases with bands who are still releasing new music (meaning, bands not releasing new music tend to fall into the retired category for me, in the sense that I might go through a few days of listening to them non-stop, but they will never dominate my stereo for months), and that has been true for most of my life, and in 1997, my favorite bands were Rush, Floyd, Yes, DT and 'Ryche, and one of my favorite bands back then could release crap and I would have listened to it non-stop. :lol But, back to HITNF and TFE, neither album is one I have high regard for anymore, and I rarely listen to anything from either now.
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I agree with kingshmegland: Some opinions are just wrong. :P
Hey, It's probably a better album. Can't argue that. How do you like them apples. :biggrin:
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I just had a quick run through HITNF. God, it sucks!
I am now starting to wonder if the writing style on PL and HITNF was due to Tate's already diminishing range and strength.
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It's because it's no QR sound for you Tim. you don't like change you old cahoot! :lol
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It's because it's no QR sound for you Tim. you don't like change you old cahoot! :lol
Only when change goes from great to sucks!
Back in my...oh wait! :lol
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AH HA! :lol
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I just had a quick run through HITNF. God, it sucks!
I am now starting to wonder if the writing style on PL and HITNF was due to Tate's already diminishing range and strength.
It definitely was, but the band was also going for a more stripped-down approach to the music. Especially the melodies.
Combine that with Tate's diminished range and then EMI going bankrupt, then Chris leaving, and it was a rough time for the band in general.
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Wasn't Chris the main driving force behind HITNF. He wrote like 80% of the album didn't he?
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Wasn't Chris the main driving force behind HITNF. He wrote like 80% of the album didn't he?
I really can't stomach that song that Chris sings, All I Want
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I've never really loved Promised land. Damaged is a fantastic track, and there's something cool about Disconnected and Lady Jane, but most of the songs sound kind of bland to me. And having had trouble with getting into Empire (I still think it's too cheesy melodically for the most part), I've never bothered with pretty much any post-PL album.
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Wasn't Chris the main driving force behind HITNF. He wrote like 80% of the album didn't he?
I really can't stomach that song that Chris sings, All I Want
Yeah, that could be the weakest track IMO too. It's not a bad album, there's some decent stuff going on there.
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Wasn't Chris the main driving force behind HITNF. He wrote like 80% of the album didn't he?
Absolutely. Chris was always a big part of the band's sound, but Michael was also a key component as well. They worked really damn well together.
This is how the band's writing credits were split on HITNF.
1. "Sign of the Times" Chris DeGarmo 3:33
2. "Cuckoo's Nest" DeGarmo 3:59
3. "Get a Life" DeGarmo, Geoff Tate 3:39
4. "The Voice Inside" DeGarmo 3:48
5. "Some People Fly" DeGarmo, Tate 5:17
6. "Saved" DeGarmo, Tate 4:09
7. "You" DeGarmo, Tate 3:54
8. "Hero" DeGarmo 5:25
9. "Miles Away" DeGarmo 4:32
10. "Reach" Tate, Michael Wilton 3:30
11. "All I Want" DeGarmo 4:06
12. "Hit the Black" DeGarmo, Eddie Jackson 3:36
13. "Anytime / Anywhere" DeGarmo, Jackson, Tate 2:54
14. "sp00L" DeGarmo, Tate
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I quite like the song You. It's one of the better ones on that album, along with Sign Of The Times.
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Yeah I know Chris was always a main driving force behind the band's sound with Michael, but I thought I remember reading something about Chris really taking control of the direction and sound more than the others on this album. I could be wrong, but the credits seem to back that up.
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I quite like the song You. It's one of the better ones on that album, along with Sign Of The Times.
You would easily be a top 3 song, great tune.
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There was one positive to Dedicated to Chaos. For all the shit many of the Tate era albums got, Here in the Now would always remain the worst album they'd ever done. That was until, in his final parting effort, Tate squeaked out the shit-fest that was Dedicated to Chaos.
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Yeah I know Chris was always a main driving force behind the band's sound with Michael, but I thought I remember reading something about Chris really taking control of the direction and sound more than the others on this album. I could be wrong, but the credits seem to back that up.
No, you are correct.
But All I Want is brilliant.
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Bosk, between this thread and the DT12 thread, you are about to lose your Music Listening License.
I'm going to have to write you a citation.
:police:
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Hear in the New Frontier would have been clever. Here in the Now Frontier would have been clever. Changing both words just makes it nonsensical and stupid. :lol
As for the album itself... it has "sp00l". And it has... it has... "sp00l". Hmm. I might need to revisit HITNF. I don't remember jack squat about that one.
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I quite like the song You. It's one of the better ones on that album, along with Sign Of The Times.
"You" would be my top song from the album
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I'd have to go with "Hero." That song was just terrific, in my opinion.
Also, the talk of "Here" vs. "Hear" reminds me that in the court documents from a few years back Wilton actually referred to the album as "Here in the Now Frontier." I was really surprised that a band member wouldn't know the album's proper title.
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Not with this band it doesn't.
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I think "You" is a steaming pile of horse shit. To each their own.
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there are some good ideas for songs on HITNF, unfortunately most of them don't come to fruition.
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HITNF was Queensryche trying something different and that in itself is not a problem, they did that with every record up until then. For me the main problem are the songs, a whole lot of them just aren't fun to listen too. I can overlook the sound and Tate's clearly decline in singing but I don't want to listen to these mediocre songs. For me only Sign Of The Times and spOOl are good.
And Promised Land is not bad but mostly overrated.
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I've always enjoyed HITNF. I do wonder if I was helped out by lowered expectations after the dreadful disappointment of Promised Land (I've long since gotten over it, but I still don't include Promised Land in the classic era of QR as many do). sp00L is the stand out track, but I enjoy all of the album.
I don't think the dryness of the sound on HITNF suited QR though. There's a video of them playing Jet City Woman on MTV floating around with the guitar sound from HITNF and it sounds terrible.
I am now starting to wonder if the writing style on PL and HITNF was due to Tate's already diminishing range and strength.
I think it was a combination of the direction DeGarmo was going in naturally and Wilton's contributions being marginalised because Tate started putting limitations on the kind of material he'd sing over.
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I'd have to go with "Hero." That song was just terrific, in my opinion.
Also, the talk of "Here" vs. "Hear" reminds me that in the court documents from a few years back Wilton actually referred to the album as "Here in the Now Frontier." I was really surprised that a band member wouldn't know the album's proper title.
Maybe that shows how much they care about that album? :neverusethis:
Seriously though, I've listened to a few of the songs from Frontier (Sign of the Times, Hit the Black, The Voice Inside, You) and they were alright, but not on the same level as the earlier albums. The production also sounds really crappy compared to Empire and Promised Land, although that kind of "raw" sound was what they were looking for at the time to stay relevant, according to Whip's declaration.
PL, on the other hand, is one of my top 3 QR albums along with Rage and Mindcrime. Empire is pretty good too, but a few of the songs are a little too close to hair metal for my taste, and The Warning is alright, but I'm not that much into traditional heavy metal, which the album is heavily influenced by.
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For me only Sign Of The Times and spOOl are good.
While I get that most will not share my love of most of the other songs on the album, I really think The Voice Inside and Reach are overlooked gems that MOST fans of Queensryche (or hard rock in general) should like if given the chance. I would wholeheartedly recommend going back and trying to listen to those two tracks with an open mind.
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I've listened to this album so many times when it came out, because it was the mighty Queensryche and they could do nothing wrong, could they? So I listened and listened and listened, trying to find something I was missing before. Then one day I gave up and came to the conclusion that this album just wasn't up to par with the previous ones.
There are some other songs that are not that bad, and I sometimes even spin the whole album when I'm on a QR trip, but the above mentioned songs are the only ones I really like.
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I really think The Voice Inside and Reach are overlooked gems that MOST fans of Queensryche (or hard rock in general) should like if given the chance.
The Voice Inside is one of the few songs from this record I liked from the start and still like. The sound of the album kind of stifles it, but it is still a nice song. I am not that fond of Reach, although it's not awful. Hero, The Voice Inside and the last three songs are the only ones I go for anymore, and even that is rare.
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It's still a pretty lame QR album, but I apparently like more of it than most people do. Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone mention Some People Fly yet...that would be my personal favorite of the entire album. Brilliant song, and usually the one from this album that I'm most likely to throw on a compilation.
I also like Cuckoo's Nest, You, and Reach. The rest is fairly unmemorable.
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Some People Fly had potential, with that soaring chorus, but even that just somehow misses the mark thanks to some awkward transitions. And listening to again now on YT, I am stunned at how bland the verses are. They aren't bad; they are just there. And that bridge is just ugly. I hadn't heard this song in probably over 10 years, and it will probably be another 10 before I give it another try. :lol
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If we're going to talk about post-PL albums, I seriously want to give a shout out to one that I feel is the most under-rated of the bunch...
Several years ago, I did a QR album discussion series on MP.com. At that time, OMC2 was the newest album, and the only album I didn't own was Tribe, so I went out and bought it just for the purpose of including it. I had only heard Open Desert Dance, so my expectations were sufficiently lowered, but the album as a whole was actually not too bad. I was actually surprised that the first two DeGarmo tracks offered would be among the worst of the album (thus proving once again that his departure was not the reason QR went down the tubes). But Art of Life was one in particular that hit me pretty hard. LOVE that track. Tribe is just a weird little album, and maybe that's why I have a soft spot for it. It's not classic, but it was certainly better than HITNF and Q2Krap.
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If we're going to talk about post-PL albums, I seriously want to give a shout out to one that I feel is the most under-rated of the bunch...
Several years ago, I did a QR album discussion series on MP.com. At that time, OMC2 was the newest album, and the only album I didn't own was Tribe, so I went out and bought it just for the purpose of including it. I had only heard Open Desert Dance, so my expectations were sufficiently lowered, but the album as a whole was actually not too bad. I was actually surprised that the first two DeGarmo tracks offered would be among the worst of the album (thus proving once again that his departure was not the reason QR went down the tubes). But Art of Life was one in particular that hit me pretty hard. LOVE that track. Tribe is just a weird little album, and maybe that's why I have a soft spot for it. It's not classic, but it was certainly better than HITNF and Q2Krap.
I like Tribe a good bit more than most too but I think DeGarmo was very helpful in what he contributed to it before jumping off the sinking ship as it was...
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I really like Tribe. "Art of Life" is a great tune and QR should have been making similar songs with Tate
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As I have said before (probably multiple times) I find Tribe to be the worst they've done, apart from DtC which I still haven't listened to. I think part of the reason why I strongly dislike Tribe is that they had the chance to do something right for once and they blew it completely. Q2K on the other hand isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It's one of the best in the post CdG era, at least imo.
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As I have said before (probably multiple times) I find Tribe to be the worst they've done, apart from DtC which I still haven't listened to. I think part of the reason why I strongly dislike Tribe is that they had the chance to do something right for once and they blew it completely. Q2K on the other hand isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It's one of the best in the post CdG era, at least imo.
The Right Side of My Mind is the only thing that saves that album....but it's a biggie. By far the best individual song ever released by them post PL....maybe even post OMC. It's almost awkward that the rest of the album is anywhere from forgettable to bad, and then they suddenly end on one of the best things they've ever done.
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I really like Tribe. "Art of Life" is a great tune and QR should have been making similar songs with Tate
It's a top 5 Ryche album for me, I love it.
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Listened to HITNF on the drive in to work today after not having spun it for a LONG time. My love for this album is reaffirmed. Just a spectacularly good album.
Tribe had potential. Open, Desert Dance, and The Art of Life are fantastic. Tribe is good and could have been better with better lyrics, and The Great Divide is not bad as well. The rest of the album is some of the worst they have ever done (again, not counting D2C). But you could take the good from Tribe, a few scraps from Q2K, and add Howl, Justified, and the early version of Hostage from the Tribe era and have a solid album.
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I really like Tribe. "Art of Life" is a great tune and QR should have been making similar songs with Tate
It's a top 5 Ryche album for me, I love it.
I just don't hear what you guys hear. I bought the signed version but just couldn't get through the album. It's just not what I want to hear from QR, or anyone tbh.
And some of HITNF wasn't great but compared to what came later it was a masterpiece. Q2K wasn't a total write off but I gave up on the band at that point. It just wasn't QR anymore, at least not the QR that appealed to me.
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Thanks to the chatter this week, I have found myself listening to Rage for Order and The Warning a lot the last few days. :metal
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Out of all the post-PL albums the band did with Geoff, I thought Tribe was easily the best, which isn't saying much. I really only like about half of that album, but for a while there it seemed like they just might be coming close to recapturing the classic Queensryche sound again. After Tribe, I actually had decently high hopes for the Mindcrime sequel that followed (which of course ended up being a huge disappointment.)
As far as I'm concerned, Queensryche as a band pretty much ended with Tribe. Even with Chris technically no longer in the band, he still contributed heavily to that album. And Q2K, while being very not good and having the awfulness that is Kelly Grey, still at least saw the band functioning as a band. After Tribe, though, it just became full on Tateryche until they finally fired his lunatic ass after jumping one too many sharks.
Thanks to the chatter this week, I have found myself listening to Rage for Order and The Warning a lot the last few days. :metal
Now those are great albums. RFO was, after the original EP, my first full QR album. Even though Mindcrime grew on me to the point where it surpased RFO as my favourite QR record, my heart still has a special place for RFO. Walk In The Shadows is still the first song that comes to my mind whenever I hear the name Queensryche, and will always be the definitive QR track for me! :metal :metal :metal
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I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I still wonder how existing fans at the time reacted when Empire came out. I suspect the reaction was similar to how pre-existing Metallica fans reacted to The Black Album. Fans had to hear their band that before was full of such raw energy on record now sounding so streamlined and produced for the masses, and we know how some fans react when "their" band suddenly has widespread appeal.
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I remember it quite well. The hardcore fans said Queensryche was now Pink Floyd, and that Metallica sold out.
But personally, I realized that one of the things I liked about both bands was the complexity, and fresh directions the bands previously took. I found that their music required a more involved approach when listening, and usually took several listens to reveal itself. The music was complex and took time to grow. I gave the albums a chance, and while very different from the predecessors, I found them to be very good and are still favorites. But in retrospect, those are both the albums that marked the end of my love affair with the bands. Subsequent releases never found their way into my heart. My deep love for both bands went downhill after the Black Album and Empire.
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My deep love for both bands went downhill after the Black Album and Empire.
This .........although ( MoP aside) I'm not sure "deep love" would describe my feelings for Metallica. Queensryche did break my heart though :-[ .
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I remember being quite disappointed with TBA and Empire. But they have both aged extremely well.
Listened to Warning last night. I can honestly say that there are only a handful of albums that I like better.
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My love for both bands went downhill WITH TBA and Empire.
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I just found out today that they are playing here in St. Louis at a venue I didn't know existed :lol, which is less than 10 minutes from where I live. And tickets are cheap. What the hell, I might go.
So yeah, I ended up not going. I spent a good part of the day at a winery with some friends, and then the two friends I mentioned the concert to could not go, so I chucked the idea. Oh well.
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New music from DeGarmo and his daughter: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-queensryche-guitarist-chris-degarmo-teams-up-with-daughter-rylie-on-debut-the-rue-ep/
DeGarmo's playing is unmistakeable. His playing in this song reminds me of "Hero" from HITNF.
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She's cute. The song is OK too.
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New song up for pledgers.
Sounds amazing!
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I'll guess I'll have to use my imagination
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The new song is up on century media's soundcloud page!
"Arrow of Time" (https://m.soundcloud.com/centurymedia/queensryche-arrow-of-time/s-3aMP6)
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The new song is up on century media's soundcloud page!
"Arrow of Time" (https://m.soundcloud.com/centurymedia/queensryche-arrow-of-time/s-3aMP6)
Oh yes. I'd say that's a good start.
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Me likey. Sounds like much better production than the s/t. Really clean and crisp.
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Sounds solid. I dig it.
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I'm not in love with it, but I think it will grow on me. Definitely looking forward to hearing the rest of the album, and the production sounded much better as well.
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The new song is up on century media's soundcloud page!
"Arrow of Time" (https://m.soundcloud.com/centurymedia/queensryche-arrow-of-time/s-3aMP6)
Oh yes. I'd say that's a good start.
Yup! I can live with that!!
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Wow! I definitely enjoyed my first listen. Sounds like QR!
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like the sounds of this
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Sounds solid.
I would agree - solid but not particularly memorable. I like what it says about the album (the general style and guitar sound) but I can't say that I am rushing to play that song again.
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It's an okay song.
A bit power metal-esque and some of it sounds dated, especially the chanting near the end. I really like the middle section, though it doesn't seem to flow with the rest of the song. Rockenfield is animal on it.
My main issue with the song is, if you told me this was a different band, I don't think I would say, "you know, this sounds like QR."
So basically I'm not sure this sounds like a QR-type song.
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Just think positive. It could have been "the key" junk
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Pretty much "color by numbers" power metal. It's still a big improvement over anything they've done in decades.
I think that overall, it's a positive message. Their singles (with the exception of I Am I and Empire) have always been among their weakest tracks anyway. If this is the worst song on the album (probable) then that bodes very well for the album as a whole.
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We've got an album title and release date!
Press Release:
Against the formidable obstacles of an ever-changing cultural landscape, the rise and fall of various musical trends, and the near collapse of the record industry itself, QUEENSRźCHE secured a triumphant legacy as one of hard rock’s most respected and celebrated acts, selling 30 million albums around the world across a 30-plus-year career.
The much-anticipated new offering, Condition Hüman, sees vocalist Todd LaTorre deliver the performance of a lifetime on what is now his sophomore recording effort with the band. Produced by Zeuss (Rob Zombie, Hatebreed, Sanctuary) in the band’s native Washington, Condition Hüman is a new mountain towering over many of the peaks and valleys of the hard rock landscape. Look for the album via Century Media Records on Oct 2nd.
I'm excited!
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:metal
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I'm actually looking forward to this!
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I'm actually looking forward to this!
Likewise! My thoughts on how the band's been handling their setlist and touring plans aside, the s/t album was pretty great. Considering how the past album was largely written on a very short schedule, I think this new one will be far better since they've spent more time treating this album carefully. If Arrow of Time is anything to go by, this one's going to be great.
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I'm actually looking forward to this!
What's the 'actually' crap? I'm ABSOLUTELY looking forward to this!
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I'm actually looking forward to this!
What's the 'actually' crap? I'm ABSOLUTELY looking forward to this!
Well,
1. I hold the band accountable for their last 15 years. It's not all on Tate.
2. The s/t is NOT the masterpiece that most people around here make it. It's a decent extended EP at best.
3. I'm still skeptical, and trust me, I AM rooting for them. After hearing the new track, I am definitely encouraged.
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I think it's natural to be skeptical that the magic can be revived without Degarmo and Tate - the s/t was decent but no cigar and so I'm on the fence. Tate is well and truly past it , so no loss there but it's still a lot riding on Wilton's shoulders. His input to classic QR is under rated by some and I get the impression that Todd is a good writer and really tuned in to the whole process , so I am cautiously optimistic.
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I have full confidence that this album will kick ass
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I just want to say... Scott Rock's drumming on that new song is great. Dude is playing like he's 25 again. Bring on the new album!
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I think it's natural to be skeptical that the magic can be revived without Degarmo and Tate - the s/t was decent but no cigar and so I'm on the fence. Tate is well and truly past it , so no loss there but it's still a lot riding on Wilton's shoulders. His input to classic QR is under rated by some and I get the impression that Todd is a good writer and really tuned in to the whole process , so I am cautiously optimistic.
Would love to see DeGarmo back with QR. It's almost impossible at this stage, but I wouldn't mind a 6 piece QR outfit. Parker has done a pretty good job so far.
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Very impressed with this new song. This album won't disappoint.
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Hmm... Not quite sure what to think. It didn't grab me right away, but that's not to say I won't like it after giving it more time.
Pretty much "color by numbers" power metal.
??? I don't hear anything in that song that reminds me of power metal.
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I'm actually looking forward to this!
What's the 'actually' crap? I'm ABSOLUTELY looking forward to this!
Well,
1. I hold the band accountable for their last 15 years. It's not all on Tate.
2. The s/t is NOT the masterpiece that most people around here make it. It's a decent extended EP at best.
3. I'm still skeptical, and trust me, I AM rooting for them. After hearing the new track, I am definitely encouraged.
All fair comments. On the first point, you're right... Mrs. Tate is owed much of the blame. My wish is that they fired his ass in the mid 00s, and we had then what we have now. On point 2, I believe the s/t was written and performed well, just mastered horribly... seeing them live proves they still have 'it'.
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Tate pulled a DeYoung, a power move. They felt trapped. Then one show, enough is enough.
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Hmm... Not quite sure what to think. It didn't grab me right away, but that's not to say I won't like it after giving it more time.
Pretty much "color by numbers" power metal.
??? I don't hear anything in that song that reminds me of power metal.
I know I'm not alone on this. The big chanting background vocals, the slightly cheesy anthemic quality, the straight forward power chords.... the ingredients are all there. Still, it's not bad for a single.
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Whether you are alone or not, I don't hear anything that sounds like power metal. The things you describe are not defining features of power metal. They are fairly common to most forms of metal.
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OK, I'm excited too, looking forward to it, not absolutely but actually.
But that press release? Seriously? Is this meant to be satirical? Or funny?
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I know I'm not alone on this. The big chanting background vocals, the slightly cheesy anthemic quality, the straight forward power chords.... the ingredients are all there. Still, it's not bad for a single.
If I'd never heard La Torre before and you didn't tell me who it was my first guess would be that it was Helloween.
First impressions are that it's alright. It might grow on me though.
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I said I didn't feel like listening to this track again ,but now I am going to have to in order to see if I can hear Helloween style power metal :lol
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Interesting, I think that Queensr˙che now sounds like a crossover of EP, The Warning and Fates Warning - Perfect Simmetry and to me it's not a bad thing. I don't know, but most of the time I hear more Ray Alder influence in La Torre's voice than Geoff Tate.
The single is good, but as a first single, to me Redemption was a better song. And yes, the production of the new album seems to be a great improvement from last one.
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I'm actually looking forward to this!
What's the 'actually' crap? I'm ABSOLUTELY looking forward to this!
Well,
1. I hold the band accountable for their last 15 years. It's not all on Tate.
2. The s/t is NOT the masterpiece that most people around here make it. It's a decent extended EP at best.
3. I'm still skeptical, and trust me, I AM rooting for them. After hearing the new track, I am definitely encouraged.
All fair comments. On the first point, you're right... Mrs. Tate is owed much of the blame. My wish is that they fired his ass in the mid 00s, and we had then what we have now. On point 2, I believe the s/t was written and performed well, just mastered horribly... seeing them live proves they still have 'it'.
My only 2 criticisms of the S/t are the length and the mix. WHat's there is fine, there's just not enough of it and some songs sound like they want to be longer but time and money ran out so they rushed to finish.
And yes, the band allowed the last 15-20 years to happen. They allowed Mr and Mrs Tate to take over.
I don't hear power metal in this song but it's straight forward metal without the proggy overtones that their earlier work had. But then there's a decent QR style solo which made me :biggrin:.
But its just one song and as I said, a great start. And far better than the Tate samples.
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Interesting, I think that Queensr˙che now sounds like a crossover of EP, The Warning and Fates Warning - Perfect Simmetry and to me it's not a bad thing. I don't know, but most of the time I hear more Ray Alder influence in La Torre's voice than Geoff Tate.
The single is good, but as a first single, to me Redemption was a better song. And yes, the production of the new album seems to be a great improvement from last one.
I definitely agree about the Fates Warning influence, and seeing as how they're my favorite prog metal band, that's not a bad sound for Queensryche to aim for. :tup:
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After second listen, I can say I like it. It doesn't smack me between the eyes like stuff from their last album did, but it's not bad. Can't wait to hear more. The riffing from the Kataklysm song that comes up on that link immediately after this song is pretty cool though. :metal
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After second listen, I can say I like it. It doesn't smack me between the eyes like stuff from their last album did, but it's not bad. Can't wait to hear more. The riffing from the Kataklysm song that comes up on that link immediately after this song is pretty cool though. :metal
Yeah, Arrow of Time is definitely a grower. I'm really curious to see where the band takes the rest of the album. :metal
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I don't hear power metal in this song but it's straight forward metal without the proggy overtones that their earlier work had.
This is probably where I'm simply talking past everyone. Anything with the bolded description just sounds like most modern bands that classify themselves as "power metal". Blind Guardian-ish maybe???
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I don't hear power metal in this song but it's straight forward metal without the proggy overtones that their earlier work had.
This is probably where I'm simply talking past everyone. Anything with the bolded description just sounds like most modern bands that classify themselves as "power metal". Blind Guardian-ish maybe???
When I think power metal I hear repetitive fast bass drumming, happy riffs and choruses like you'd hear in church 200 years ago. And dragons. Lots of dragons.
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When I think power metal I hear repetitive fast bass drumming, happy riffs and choruses like you'd hear in church 200 years ago. And dragons. Lots of dragons.
Being ridden by Vikings. :leaveseyes:
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When I think power metal I hear repetitive fast bass drumming, happy riffs and choruses like you'd hear in church 200 years ago. And dragons. Lots of dragons.
Being ridden by Vikings. :leaveseyes:
Literally!
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The singers sound like they're being ridden by Vikings...
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That new song sounded pretty good. It's still hilarious how much this new guy sounds like a young Geoff Tate.
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That new song sounded pretty good. It's still hilarious how much this new guy sounds like a young Geoff Tate.
And that's a very good thing!!
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When I think power metal I hear repetitive fast bass drumming, happy riffs and choruses like you'd hear in church 200 years ago. And dragons. Lots of dragons.
Our bass player used to talk about "sword-wielder hymns with double bass" when refering to power metal, and I think he wasn't too far off ;D But I don't hear this in the new QR song.
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That song sounds very early prime era Queensryche. That Speak or The Needle Lies feel. The problem is that those were some of my less favorite QR songs of that great era. Worse, I'd take Speak or Needle over the new Arrow of Time. They all have that driving beat. Arrow even has a nice bridge. But I think the melodies and overall arrangement was better on the older songs.
They seem to be firing at 85% of prime (which is still better than 5% at the end of the Tate era). Except Rockenfield. He seems to be right there playing at prime level on this.
And as much respect that I've lost for Tate, La Torre is doing well with some aspect of the Tate prime era, but it is missing a couple of dimensions.
Taken piece by piece, the song has quite a bit of the QR magic. Even close to par with the old stuff. But as a whole, it doesn't really have that trademark part that makes the song an instant classic. When Speak goes into the chorus, it is a total change up, but it feels so right. It feels like a classic chorus.
It is closest to The Needle Lies, which might be my least favorite song on Mindcrime. A very good song, but a notch below the rest of the magic moments on that classic CD.
Quite frankly, I think I like their grand re-opening better so far.
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And as much respect that I've lost for Tate, La Torre is doing well with some aspect of the Tate prime era, but it is missing a couple of dimensions.
Interesting. perhaps he doesn't have the depth that Tate once had.
I love Speak! And The Needle Lies.
If Arrow Of Time is my favorite song on the album, I'll be disappointed. But I'm pretty sure it won't be.
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If Arrow Of Time is my favorite song on the album, I'll be disappointed. But I'm pretty sure it won't be.
Yeah, that's kind of how I feel as well.
Here's my somewhat controversial take and description on the new song. To me, it kinda reminds me of the better parts of Q2K. Overall, I don't like Q2K very much. Other than D2C, it is my least favorite QR album. But the thing is, the seeds were there for some good stuff. And they were writing with Kelly (and without Chris) for the first time ever, so where the writing on that album fell flat, I can somewhat overlook it. The instrumentation to me sounds a lot like where I would have expected them to be by the next album after Q2K had Kelly stayed in the band and gelled with the rest of the band. Just as the last album to me sounded like something that could have grown out of the best parts of Tribe and been a logical follow up to that album, this one feels that way with Q2K (with perhaps a bit of the Mindcrime songs that Calvin mentioned sprinkled in). Maybe after a few more listens, I will end up retracting this description and wondering what I was ever thinking. But that is where my mind went after the first few listens.
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the new song isn't much different then the S/T stuff, kind of a safe sounding, paint by numbers type of song.
I really hope they are able to show some growth with Todd in the band, but I don't get this from this particular song.
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QUEENSRźCHE will release its new album, "Condition Hüman", on October 2 via Century Media. The CD was recorded in part at at Uberbeatz Studio in Washington with producer Chris "Zeuss" Harris, who has previously worked with ROB ZOMBIE, HATEBREED, SOULFLY and SHADOWS FALL. Pre-Orders are available now at PledgeMusic.com.
"Condition Hüman" track listing:
01. Arrow Of Time
02. Guardian
03. Hellfire
04. Toxic Remedy
05. Selfish Lives
06. Eye9
07. Bulletproof
08. Hourglass
09. Just Us
10. All There Was
11. The Aftermath
12. Condition Hüman
(https://assets.blabbermouth.net.s3.amazonaws.com/media/queensrycheconditioncd.jpg)
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I like the cover. Looks like whoever designed it is definitely a fan of Awake. :lol
Night sky? Check.
City scape? Check.
Mirror? Check.
Mirror reflecting something different that what is actually in the room? Check.
Spider? Check.
Spider web? Check.
Band logo inserted in a clever way? Check. (well, okay, this is kind of a given, but still)
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very cool cover!
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I like the cover. Looks like whoever designed it is definitely a fan of Awake. :lol
Night sky? Check.
City scape? Check.
Mirror? Check.
Mirror reflecting something different that what is actually in the room? Check.
Spider? Check.
Spider web? Check.
Band logo inserted in a clever way? Check. (well, okay, this is kind of a given, but still)
I feel like this was definitely intentional on both the band and the artist's part. Their best bet at regaining any sort of success these days is to win back the fans of the prog metal scene. Looking at bands like Dream Theater and Fates Warning for some amount of influence in developing the new band's look and sound is a good way to do that.
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I love the cover too! It's very prog -- specifically I&W and Awake. This could possibly be my favorite artwork of any QR album, aside from Promised Land. I saw some people rip it on Blabbermouth though, saying it's cheesy and looks like there's an extra space between the words "Condition" and "Human."
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I feel like this was definitely intentional on both the band and the artist's part. Their best bet at regaining any sort of success these days is to win back the fans of the prog metal scene. Looking at bands like Dream Theater and Fates Warning for some amount of influence in developing the new band's look and sound is a good way to do that.
You know what? That's a great point.
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So I'll hear some of the new songs before they are released in September. Cool.
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Agreed that the cover reminds me of some prog album covers. Very nice. I am so ready! :D
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Mirror reflecting something different that what is actually in the room? Check.
Mirror reflecting something that is outside the frame of the "photo". Check.
In fact you can see the chair on the bottom left in the mirror. The mirror isn't just exposing something that's different like the DT cover.
I don't see the TriRyche logo though. (nevermind, it's just damn hard to see without jacking my brightness up)
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Mirror reflecting something that is outside the frame of the "photo". Check.
In fact you can see the chair on the bottom left in the mirror. The mirror isn't just exposing something that's different like the DT cover.
You could be right, but I don't think so. I think the fact that the little girl in the mirror has dark hair, whereas the little girl near the window has light hair is supposed to indicate that the dark-haired girl in the mirror is not there. But, of course, I am somewhat just guessing.
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I'm so excited for this album, and the Awake influences are indeed more than obvious. :metal
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Yeah, this cover is great! The only thing I don't like about it is the text, which is way too large. I wish the "Condition Human" could have just been written on a piece of paper on the floor, reflected in the mirror, or carved into the dresser. I would have also gotten rid of that silly extra umlaut. But I still love the cover and am intrigued by the song titles.
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I would have also gotten rid of that silly extra umlaut.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU??
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What's an umlaut?
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What's an umlaut?
Hint----- BOC
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(https://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/diaeresis-323.jpg)
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Mirror reflecting something that is outside the frame of the "photo". Check.
In fact you can see the chair on the bottom left in the mirror. The mirror isn't just exposing something that's different like the DT cover.
You could be right, but I don't think so. I think the fact that the little girl in the mirror has dark hair, whereas the little girl near the window has light hair is supposed to indicate that the dark-haired girl in the mirror is not there. But, of course, I am somewhat just guessing.
Most girls who are blonde in their youth, go darker when they get older. What I personally see in the mirror is the same girl.....in the future. If you notice, the girl in the mirror appears to be older.
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It's interesting to compare some of the bands' Facebook page likes........nothing like what I expected in some cases.
Queensryche: 276k
Stratovarius: 1.1 mill
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I would have also gotten rid of that silly extra umlaut.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOÜ??
FTFź ;D
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I like the concept of the cover, but the execution seems amateurish. And for some reason, it doesn't "fit" as a Queensryche cover.
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I like the concept of the cover, but the execution seems amateurish. And for some reason, it doesn't "fit" as a Queensryche cover.
That was my initial impression -nice enough cover concept but it doesn't have the Queensryche feel to me. Maybe it's like that on purpose.....a clear move away from the Tate era.
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I would have also gotten rid of that silly extra umlaut
So would I. It reminds me too much of this: https://theinfosphere.org/Hugh_Man
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It's interesting to compare some of the bands' Facebook page likes........nothing like what I expected in some cases.
Queensryche: 276k
Stratovarius: 1.1 mill
You have to remember that Geoff Tate actually has the old Queensryche page. The guys had to make a new page when they kicked him out. So they lost hundreds of thousands of likes... while Stratovarius has always had the same page. ;)
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I like the concept of the cover, but the execution seems amateurish. And for some reason, it doesn't "fit" as a Queensryche cover.
That was my initial impression -nice enough cover concept but it doesn't have the Queensryche feel to me. Maybe it's like that on purpose.....a clear move away from the Tate era.
I agree. I like the concept and it would have looked so much better if it was staged and photographed. Looks a bit cheap and tacky as a result.
Logo and title overpowers things.
It does scream prog metal though.
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That is one prog ass cover. I like it though
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Cöver is nöt bäd büt this Ümlaut thing is stüpid. As a german this leads me to always pronounce it wrong (at least in my mind).
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As a european citizen, who has had German taught in school, I always wondered what that umlaut added to the pronounciation of the bandname. I mean, how else are we supposed to pronounce it? Queensroiche? Queensrayg? Queensröche?
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The "ź" is not a german letter, I'm not sure if it is a letter at all in any language. It sure adds nothing to pronunciation. We only have Ä, Ö and Ü. Turkish language has the Ö and Ü also, and finnish has at least the Ä.
Condition Humän would at least come close to how a german would write if he was going only by the pronunciation.
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Should I be excited, or disappointed, at seeing QR at the local fair in a couple weeks? This isn't even the biggest fair in Western WA.
https://queensrycheofficial.com/event/1333194/178021084/evergreen-state-fair
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Should I be excited, or disappointed, at seeing QR at the local fair in a couple weeks? This isn't even the biggest fair in Western WA.
https://queensrycheofficial.com/event/1333194/178021084/evergreen-state-fair
Casino's and fair's (IMO) aren't really the cut rate venues they used to be. They are just conveniently mid-sized. I saw Styx at the Evergreen State Fair once, and I've seen bigger names than that play there.
EDIT - I should add... In spite of the Puyallup Fair being the bigger fair, IMO their concert lineups SUCK. I've always seen the Evergreen State Fair get better shows for some reason. Not sure why that is. Maybe because the Puyallup tends to focus more on country acts and Evergreen is a bit more open.
EDIT Part 2 - However I hope they have changed the way the venue is set up. When I went to see Styx, the concert was where the race track was. The stage was built on top of the straightaway on one side of the track, and the front row seats were behind the protective fence and about 30 feet away from the stage. That part kinda sucked.
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I go to both fairs every year, and I guess I always think of them as, well... fairs. Pony rides, deep-fried oreos, barnyard smells. Not a place I want to see a rock band play. Maybe it is just my mindset.
Yes, Puyallup Fair (or is in the WA State Fair now?) has more country acts. And I have seen a show at neither. Unless you count Gallagher.
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If they play a bowling alley, then you can break out that last nail.
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If they play a bowling alley, then you can break out that last nail.
I would hate to see that happen
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Weren't they playing behind Walmarts when Tate was still fronting them? I remembering seeing footage during the cabaret debacle, and it looked like they were in a back alley.
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Weren't they playing behind Walmarts when Tate was still fronting them? I remembering seeing footage during the cabaret debacle, and it looked like they were in a back alley.
I don't remember it being that small. But I remember that show coming to a local casino.
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Weren't they playing behind Walmarts when Tate was still fronting them? I remembering seeing footage during the cabaret debacle, and it looked like they were in a back alley.
Yes I remember that. That cabaret tour was a low point.
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Awesome They're coming here at a casino venue. Gonna be great.
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The Needle Lies from Wacken TV
https://youtu.be/hBZcyeunuv0
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I really liked their Wacken performance
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The setlist appears to be getting a bit stale though. They seem to be sticking with the same songs for the last couple of years now (though I've not checked it - just how it appears from memory).
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Itunes incorrectly made the album available for a short time yesterday and now Amazon has the album available for purchase. Both had the released date listed as Sept. 2 instead of Oct. 2. Oops.
edit: it is in the process of being removed from Amazon. don't know if the samples will remain or not.
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New video up on billboard.com. Can't link to it from the iPad because it was a Facebook link. Decent song. Clipping at the fade out is far worse than the last album :lol
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New video up on billboard.com. Can't link to it from the iPad because it was a Facebook link. Decent song. Clipping at the fade out is far worse than the last album :lol
https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/6685856/queensryche-guardian-video-condition-human-premiere
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Thanks for that :tup
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Here's a youtube link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra1TSmmUY90&feature=youtu.be
Yeah baby!
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Thanks for that :tup
:tup
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The song is pretty good. Definitely better than Arrow of Time.
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Thought I heard some Pamela Moore in there.
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It's alright. I honestly don't know what's going to make me happy with the new QR album. I feel like the fact that it doesn't suck may not be good enough.
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I like it.
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great tune
100X better then "The Stranger"
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HOLY CRAP!!! What a day! Just heard the new Iron Maiden :hefdaddy after giving a spin to the new Riverside :hefdaddy
....but this is the biggest shock of the day! I liked the first single, but I thought it was a bit "safe"....this OTOH, is just incredible!!!! Doors officially blown off.
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
With the exception of The Right Side of My Mind (which was obviously a fluke masterpiece at this point) this is the greatest song QR has released in 20 years!! I have to pick my jaw up off the floor now!
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QR is doing some very interesting stuff these days. I liked the song, and things are going in such a better direction than the tater madness
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Not a bad song. But not too good either.
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Not a bad song. But not too good either.
QFT
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I like it , but like many of the songs on the last one (where there always seemed to be one part of the songs I didn't like) I am not sure the chorus lives up to the rest of the song. Wilton's solo was a bit anticlimactic too.
Promising though..........and to be honest it had me more involved than most of the new Maiden album did on first listen. I do think it may be a grower and I hear more classic Queensryche in this song than almost anything since Empire.
Hopes are still high for a few tracks on the new one that really click and blow the doors off. This is close but not sure if there's a cigar in there after some more listens. Could be - and I will at least take the time to return to it and see.
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Neither of these songs have hit me like Where Dreams Go To Die did from the last one but they have both been very acceptable. I didn't rate the solo either Brent, that gap between Parker and whip's solos was a bit jarring.
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If this wasn't QR I wouldn't be interested in this song. Not really my style.
But since it is, I'm listening. There are snippets of what I love/loved about QR in the music, but I haven't been sold on Todd as a vocalist to this point.
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I'm just shocked at how blown away I am by this song. What I love about it, is that it goes back to that thinking man's metal that they used to have back in the days of rage for order. They didn't just go for a hit single like jet city woman part two or something. This really captures that Pink Floyd goes heavy-metal kind of style that brought me to Queensryche in the first place!
I honestly didn't think they had it in them any more....I was so SO wrong. They've managed to capture the original spirit behind QR and yet sound totally modern and fresh!
Just a freakin amazing song!
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I do like the 'revolution calling' reprise in the chorus. Nice way to link the similar topic.
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I was one of the lucky ones who was online during that small window of time when Amazon mistakenly offered the entire Condition Human album on MP3 for $7.99--I think I actually jumped for joy when I realized I'd get to hear it a month early. Unlike the last album, which I loved immediately, this one took much longer to grow on me. The first listen was a crushing disappointment (because my expectations were unfairly high), but after five more, I'm officially hooked!
-The production and atmosphere are a HUGE improvement over the self-titled, and you'll notice a lot of interesting things in the background by wearing headphones.
-Todd's vocals are incredible! I really hope he takes good care of his voice during the upcoming tours because this album proved what an amazing gift he has.
-While there are plenty of inspired moments in "Selfish Lives," "Toxic Remedy," and "All There Was," their choruses are depressingly, shockingly bland, and really made me crave an infectious, singalong chorus like the ones on Empire.
-"Arrow of Time" and "Guardian" are probably the heaviest Queensryche songs in decades and so they were excellent choices for singles. To showcase their versatility, I hope the next single will be "Just Us," a slow and mostly acoustic song that probably would have fit in nicely on the Promised Land album; it's a pleasant and warm track on what is mostly a challenging progressive metal album. And if I didn't know any better, I would have thought that was Chris Degarmo providing the background vocals! Another good choice for the next single would be "Bulletproof," which will soothe the souls of those with a soft spot for the power ballads of the 80's.
-Even the most critical listeners will be grinning like fools when they hear the epic title track, which should remind everyone of "Suite Sister Mary" at times. I'll be shocked if it's not the most revered Queensryche song in decades. Its prelude, "The Aftermath," is creepy as hell and packs a powerful punch for a song that's only 55 seconds.
-I am so thankful that Queensryche are a thinking man's heavy metal band again!
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I do like the 'revolution calling' reprise in the chorus. Nice way to link the similar topic.
That's part of what turned me off about the song. I really want to see this band moving forward, and that felt like a thinly veiled attempt to use something from their history to grab the listener's attention. In fact, I found the entire chorus very off-putting, poorly written and poorly executed.
This might be a poor analogy, but it's like when you see a reboot of a classic movie/tv series and the writers try to fit lines of dialogue from the original/classic into the reboot. (See Star Trek: Into Darkness for a perfect example of the failure of doing this). This band was always at it's best when they carried us forward (i.e. being progressive), and they're much too talented to be using this tactic, in my opinion.
I do appreciate the fact that they're being aggressive in the other aspects of the music with these first two songs, but now is the time for them to re-establish themselves as something more than a nostalgia act that's going to rely on past successes.
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I think the chorus is super catchy.
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I think the chorus is super catchy.
I'll admit that I might be reacting too quickly. My expectations for this album have been very high, and I might not be giving the song the chance to grow on me. My initial reaction is negative, however. If my opinion changes over time it wouldn't be the first time that I've done a complete 180 on a piece of music.
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My expectations for this album have been very high
And mine are relatively low, simply because of the easy "what about DeGarmo" angle. It's not fair because he left them, not vice versa, but it is reality nevertheless.
So the low expectations had me appreciating the new video. It has exceeded my expectations. Even if I feel the song represents more of the QR in the first phase of their prime as opposed to the prime of their prime. If they weren't QR, I'd probably enjoy it more, unburdened with the what-ifs.
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I listened to Guardian and The Stranger back to back - you can probably guess which song is a million times better to my ears! :lol I like Arrow of Time more, but the chorus is catchy and there's some cool riffing going on.
I do like the 'revolution calling' reprise in the chorus. Nice way to link the similar topic.
Todd responded to a comment on his FB page and said it's "evolution calling".
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I listened to Guardian and The Stranger back to back - you can probably guess which song is a million times better to my ears! :lol I like Arrow of Time more, but the chorus is catchy and there's some cool riffing going on.
I do like the 'revolution calling' reprise in the chorus. Nice way to link the similar topic.
Todd responded to a comment on his FB page and said it's "evolution calling".
Oh, ok. The subject matter seemed on point for the original so I assumed it was intentional, and maybe it still is as a play on words. Very prog :biggrin:
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I listened to Guardian and The Stranger back to back - you can probably guess which song is a million times better to my ears! :lol I like Arrow of Time more, but the chorus is catchy and there's some cool riffing going on.
I do like the 'revolution calling' reprise in the chorus. Nice way to link the similar topic.
Todd responded to a comment on his FB page and said it's "evolution calling".
When I first heard it, I thought he said "revolution" and I wasn't sure how I felt about it. Now that I know it's "evolution", that's actually pretty bad-ass. Instead of trying to just repeat a phrase to cash in on an idea, you've updated it to signify your own "evolution" to a new era....while at the same time, possiby taking an underhanded jab at the Tater? The more the possibilities, the cooler the idea seems. I really dig it.
Arrow of Time is still a bit too radio friendly for my tastes...but I suppose you've got to have an attempt at a single somewhere. Guardian is the first QR song I've been excited about since I first heard I Am I.
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I liked the closing of the song quite a bit. A good way of mixing clearer and more muffled sounds.
The most detracting thing for the revamped QR are the vocals. I prefer the OM/Empire vocal style of Tate over the pre-OM style (the higher singing) and LaTorre is mimicking the pre-OM style Tate more. Not that I don't like that style, I just like the other style more.
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New review
https://www.metalwani.com/2015/09/review-queensryche-condition-human.html
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sounds solid
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The QR EP came up in my car today and .... so far I definitely like the QR EP more.
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The QR EP came up in my car today and .... so far I definitely like the QR EP more.
There is no contest there, imo.
And how depressing is it that the QR put out 30 years ago (and was a debut) is more pleasing to listen to, sonically, than the one released so recently.
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On second spin I'm loving it even more. Guardian just SLAYS!!!! :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
If the rest of the album is half as good, it may make my album of the year. Certainly the comeback of the decade at the very least. I was just not at all expecting this. I had high hopes for the new IM and they were met. I had underwhelming expectations for Riverside, and they were exceeded. But I had so-so hopes for this, and nothing could have prepared me for how good this new single is.
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Gotta say I'm having very mixed feelings about all this. Reading that review and having heard some snippets of the new songs and the new stuff Tate is putting out, I have a feeling that Tate might come out on top in this round.
I'm also having some doubts as to what I enjoy more, listening to a Tate sound-alike, or, douchebag or not, having lost a lot of his vocal prowess or not, the original article.
I really wish Queensryche would have gone for a new, different direction with a vocalist that doesn't try to be a better Tate than Tate was. That I would've embraced with all my heart. It would also have put to rest this never ending battle between the fans.
This, I don't know. I'll listen to it when it comes out, but I likely will listen to the new Tateryche as well.
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The first Tate track was pretty good, the second two were dire so I have no doubts this will be better based on the two tracks from the QR that I've heard.
I know what you're saying re the soundalike vocals and I'd agree to some degree, but I'd take Todd over the frogvoiced Tate now.
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To be fair, Todd wasn't originally supposed to replace Tate in QR. He was hired as the singer for what would have been a spinoff project, Rising West. Then Tate had his meltdown and tried to shut down promotion for Rising West's debut shows, which led those concerts to basically being the band testing to see how well Todd would go over with the fans and decided from there to have him replace Tate in the band proper.
It would have been interesting to see the band go in a different direction with a singer that didn't bare as much resemblance to Tate as Todd does, but even then, Todd doesn't sound that much like Tate. His voice isn't as "rich" sounding, particularly in his mid-range. Todd takes more inspiration from Bruce Dickinson than anyone else, I think.
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Yeah, but I don't think the band ever thought creating Rising West would ever be a vaiable thing. It was so shallow to see what was going on.
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I think Todd doesn't sound that much like Tate because of his voice. Sure there are similarities but there are also big differences. But when it comes to phrasing, articulation, pronounciation etc. I think Todd is not only close, he sometimes sounds more like Tate than Tate himself, right down to the few spoken words on the last disc. And that he does clearly on purpose.
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I think Todd is an absolute perfect fit for the band
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To be fair, Todd wasn't originally supposed to replace Tate in QR. He was hired as the singer for what would have been a spinoff project, Rising West. Then Tate had his meltdown and tried to shut down promotion for Rising West's debut shows, which led those concerts to basically being the band testing to see how well Todd would go over with the fans and decided from there to have him replace Tate in the band proper.
It would have been interesting to see the band go in a different direction with a singer that didn't bare as much resemblance to Tate as Todd does, but even then, Todd doesn't sound that much like Tate. His voice isn't as "rich" sounding, particularly in his mid-range. Todd takes more inspiration from Bruce Dickinson than anyone else, I think.
Tate had his meltdown *before* the RW shows. In fact, it's just the opposite of what you said. RW started as a result of the Tate meltdown. The test shows as RW were to check out how Todd would do...but also because they were unsure of their legal standing with the QR name at that moment in time.
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To be fair, Todd wasn't originally supposed to replace Tate in QR. He was hired as the singer for what would have been a spinoff project, Rising West. Then Tate had his meltdown and tried to shut down promotion for Rising West's debut shows, which led those concerts to basically being the band testing to see how well Todd would go over with the fans and decided from there to have him replace Tate in the band proper.
It would have been interesting to see the band go in a different direction with a singer that didn't bare as much resemblance to Tate as Todd does, but even then, Todd doesn't sound that much like Tate. His voice isn't as "rich" sounding, particularly in his mid-range. Todd takes more inspiration from Bruce Dickinson than anyone else, I think.
Tate had his meltdown *before* the RW shows. In fact, it's just the opposite of what you said. RW started as a result of the Tate meltdown. The test shows as RW were to check out how Todd would do...but also because they were unsure of their legal standing with the QR name at that moment in time.
I'm pretty sure I'd heard that Rising West was already a work-in-progress between Todd and Whip before Tate's meltdown. But eh, I could be wrong.
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New song Hellfire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=5&v=am_dLpoZdo8)
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This sounds good. Man, I'm hoping they play something from the new album tonight. Haven't watched the setlist, so if you're gonna spoil it, do it in small font please.
Been listening to them all morning - starting at the beginning. Is it weird that I now picture Todd singing when I listen to EP, Warning, and Rage For Order? Not sure I'd be able to do it with Mindcrime, for all the times that I've watched Livecrime.
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Now that intro is Queensryche!
Great QR tune. Can't wait to hear this cranked.
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New song Hellfire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=5&v=am_dLpoZdo8)
This is absolutely the direction that the band needed to go in for this new lineup. Play to their strengths and fine-tune that sound.
I love this interesting blending of No Exit-era Fates Warning vocals with Alice in Chains vocal harmonies with an epic guitar solo from Parker that sounds like something off of Death's The Sound of Perseverance.
BRILLIANT.
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Nice..........it has its own personality but some Rage For Order touches that I like and Todd (esp up high) does NOT sound like he is just trying to be Tate. I like this better than anything on the last one.
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My favourite track so far! Can't wait for the album to come.
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The new album just continues to impress so far.
If the rest of the album is this good, it would be the greatest comeback in history.
-
awesome song
-
Listening to it on headphones makes it even better.
It's still only 3 songs, but the last two have blown everything from the last album completely out of the water.
I'd have to hear the whole album to be sure, but I'm ready to say QUEENSRYCHE IS BACK!!!! :panicattack:
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As much as I didn't like, or didn't feel much excitement about the last two songs, I think that this one is really impressive. This is the kind of direction that I had hoped that they might be taking. This song definitely stands out.
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They kicked ass tonight. Short set unfortunately (on 45 minutes), and they did Arrow of Time, just like on the Wacken set. Man they were tight. Nothing from the s/t, which is kinda disappointing, because I really like all of those tracks, just the production is so shyte. Everything is pre Promised Land. I hope they pull some of the (few) gems from post-Empire out for shows in the future. I also really hope they can headline after the release of Condition Human.
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I still like Guardian the most.
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I still like Guardian the most.
That's my favorite of the three singles so far. But all are awesome
Queensryche really is back
-
New song Hellfire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=5&v=am_dLpoZdo8)
epic guitar solo from Parker that sounds like something off of Death's The Sound of Perseverance.
BRILLIANT.
Shiiiiiiiiiit, I totally hear it, sick solo definitely.
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Now that you mention it, I can totally hear it. Just add that sinister guitar sound from that album and it would be a perfect fit!
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My favourite track so far! Can't wait for the album to come.
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This new material kicks WAAAYYY too much ass to be languishing underneath the Geoff Tate thread....but then again, sometimes garbage generates more discussion than stuff that everyone seems to agree is amazing.
:metal :metal :metal :metal
As far as I'm concerned, every track released has been better than the one before it. And that gives me high hopes for the title track, which TLT has said is an "epic" that is comparable to Roads to Madness. :panicattack:
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They kicked ass tonight. Short set unfortunately (on 45 minutes), and they did Arrow of Time, just like on the Wacken set. Man they were tight. Nothing from the s/t, which is kinda disappointing, because I really like all of those tracks, just the production is so shyte. Everything is pre Promised Land. I hope they pull some of the (few) gems from post-Empire out for shows in the future. I also really hope they can headline after the release of Condition Human.
I saw them on the boston show. They were awesome and Todd nailed every song. We however did not get Arrow of Time but we did get Nightrider so Im ok with that.
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New song Hellfire (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=5&v=am_dLpoZdo8)
epic guitar solo from Parker that sounds like something off of Death's The Sound of Perseverance.
BRILLIANT.
Shiiiiiiiiiit, I totally hear it, sick solo definitely.
Fuck yeah, I can totally hear that too now it's been mentioned. Parker surely needs to solo more if this is what he can do.
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https://bravewords.com/features/queensryche-r-evolution-calling
...and John Petrucci wants us to do some shows together in the States next year.
:metal
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https://bravewords.com/features/queensryche-r-evolution-calling
...and John Petrucci wants us to do some shows together in the States next year.
:metal
Yeah, baby! Get Fates Warning on that bill too!
-
Fates, OSI, QR, DT concert ... I would actually have to rethink the retiring from concerts thing.
-
https://bravewords.com/features/queensryche-r-evolution-calling
...and John Petrucci wants us to do some shows together in the States next year.
:metal
:caffeine:
:panicattack:
:headasplode:
(https://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/264/200/acb.jpg)
-
New track by track video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=347&v=Lqjrg20azz8
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New track by track video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=347&v=Lqjrg20azz8
I've met Whip personally on a couple of occasions, and he is honestly one of the nicest guys you could ever meet. But this video really shows how shy the guy is IRL. He's really not comfortable doing stuff like this.
-
The new music sounds great.
-
10 more days baby!
-
10 more days baby!
Are you doing George's "baby" now?
-
10 more days baby!
Are you doing George's "baby" now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lbqAcdooVs
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:lol
-
10 more days baby!
Are you doing George's "baby" now?
(https://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/BigBergerMan/austin-powers-mike-myers-yeah-baby-Favimcom-151109.jpg)
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New review
https://www.nationalrockreview.com/album-reviews/queensryche-condition-human
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10 more days baby!
Are you doing George's "baby" now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lbqAcdooVs
:rollin
-
A kid interviews Wilton and Rockenfield: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-featured-on-kids-interview-bands/
P.S. - The guys can't name all the Spice Girls.
-
A kid interviews Wilton and Rockenfield: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-featured-on-kids-interview-bands/
P.S. - The guys can't name all the Spice Girls.
I like the even more now!
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A kid interviews Wilton and Rockenfield: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-featured-on-kids-interview-bands/
P.S. - The guys can't name all the Spice Girls.
thank goodness
-
It's always amazing the amount of bands that can name them all. Although, it doesn't really shock me at the same time
-
OK Spice
Cute Spice
Hot Spice 1
Hot Spice 2
Hotter Spice
How hard can it be?
-
Scary Spice
Baby Spice
Posh Spice
Plain Spice
Boob Spice
-
New reviews
https://www.metaltalk.net/columns2015/201523306.php
https://progreport.com/queensryche-condition-human-review/
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It's always amazing the amount of bands that can name them all. Although, it doesn't really shock me at the same time
:rollin
I came up short, so I googled. Ginger Spice ;D When did that South Park episode come out?
-
Scary Spice
Baby Spice
Posh Spice
Plain Spice
Boob Spice
You forgot about Old Spice...
-
Scary Spice
Baby Spice
Posh Spice
Plain Spice
Boob Spice
You forgot about Old Spice...
Cilantro
-
New reviews
https://www.metaltalk.net/columns2015/201523306.php
https://progreport.com/queensryche-condition-human-review/
Everything about this album seems positive. I haven't read anything negative or even average about this disc yet.
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One more week, BABY!!!
-
(https://www.amorequietplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Dirty-dancing-ben-and-jerrys-openair-cinema-brisbane-shorts-550x416.jpg)
-
You forgot about Old Spice...
(https://cdn.themetapicture.com/media/funny-Old-Spice-guy-girls.jpg)
-
You forgot about Old Spice...
(https://cdn.themetapicture.com/media/funny-Old-Spice-guy-girls.jpg)
Yes, I know that it was lame, but I couldn't resist.
-
One more week, BABY!!!
Shit, it is too. Man, time is flying by. Still thought it was a couple of weeks haha.
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One more week, BABY!!!
Shit, it is too. Man, time is flying by. Still thought it was a couple of weeks haha.
If it's one week for us, then it's only 6 and a half days for you. Less than a week!!
-
I wonder if they will release a deluxe edition at some point.
-
One more week, BABY!!!
Shit, it is too. Man, time is flying by. Still thought it was a couple of weeks haha.
If it's one week for us, then it's only 6 and a half days for you. Less than a week!!
(https://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/jim-carrey-yes-gif.gif)
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I hope QR sends the download a couple of days earlier for those of who did the campaign thing.
-
I hope QR sends the download a couple of days earlier for those of who did the campaign thing.
They did say that the album would ship for pledgers before street release date. Here's to hoping the download will be the same!
-
I hope QR sends the download a couple of days earlier for those of who did the campaign thing.
They did say that the album would ship for pledgers before street release date. Here's to hoping the download will be the same!
Just got my shipping confirmation.
And fuck me sideways...the shipping address is an incorrect one. I paid via Paypal and that address, I had deleted it a couple of years ago. Damn it! I don't know what I'm going to do. I bought a signed cd.
-
New reviews :
https://deadrhetoric.com/reviews/queensryche-condition-human-century-media/
https://powerofmetal.dk/2015/09/queensryche-condition-human/
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I hope QR sends the download a couple of days earlier for those of who did the campaign thing.
They did say that the album would ship for pledgers before street release date. Here's to hoping the download will be the same!
Just got my shipping confirmation.
And fuck me sideways...the shipping address is an incorrect one. I paid via Paypal and that address, I had deleted it a couple of years ago. Damn it! I don't know what I'm going to do. I bought a signed cd.
Is that an error by Paypal?
-
Not sure. I went to my account and that address is not there. I went to the USPS website and did the change of address thing. I hope that helps.
-
This album is awesome. It absolutely blows the S/T out of the water... QR's best work since Promised Land. I know that's not saying a ton but still... :metal :metal
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This album is awesome. It absolutely blows the S/T out of the water... QR's best work since Promised Land.
X2
-
The first 3 songs and last 2 (esp the title track) are killer but the mid section has a few lows IMHO. But still.....my favourite since Empire I think.
-
The CD is out?
-
It's out on Oct 2nd.
BTW are you the same Calvin6s from the old ytsejam mailing list and IRC channel?
-
BTW are you the same Calvin6s from the old ytsejam mailing list and IRC channel?
Hey Gaz. Yup. I knew I would eventually meet somebody here from way back then. I remember I could always get Chalkface riled up by pretending that New Zealand and Australia were one in the same.
I don't recall exactly when I stopped coming to #ytsejam IRC, but probably around late 1999, early 2000 when my life started getting more complicated. I remember talking up the Derek Sherinian - Planet X CD and you replying with something like "I like the Planet X CD, but the way Calvin was having puppies about it ....." :lol
How have you been? I'm trying to put it all back together, but you were a big Gamma Ray fan right?
Let's see:
rockercat
yoondog
lisa
mark bredius
Bernd (of Superior)
MattG(uillory)
Coldfire
Gaz
Chalkface
Spine
Setlist Scotty (I remember him more from NAMM 1999 and the late Denny's run than ytsejam)
Dr.Mosh
Madsman
Mads
Eckie
Skadz
Trevor
Bert Baldwin
Mike K (forgot his irc name)
Damon
And for every name I remember, I'm going to forget those that I should absolutely remember. Many that I even met in real life. I felt so young back then.
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Yeah was a big GR back then not so much now, but still love the power metal stuff.
Chalkface actually moved to Australia, lived with me for a year.
I still see him once or twice a year, usually at a gig.
Yeah 15 years seems to have gone in the blink of an eye.
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It's out on Oct 2nd.
Also I think People who Preordered it got it early.
-
A question for the pledgers who have received their copies: did you get the standard edition or the digipak?
-
Album sounds pretty good. Not as progressive and more straight modern rock sounding than I would like at times. Will have to listen much more to let it sink in of course. Some really good stuff on first glance as well.
-
New reviews
https://mwiemetalblog.over-blog.com/2015/10/cd-review-queensryche-condition-human.html
https://www.themidlandsrocks.com/queensryche-condition-human/
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I enjoyed what I heard, but it's not something I think I'd listen to again. The band sounded great though.
-
A question for the pledgers who have received their copies: did you get the standard edition or the digipak?
And is there any difference? Bonus tracks?
-
I have the standard edition Kade but if you look at the Wiki you'll see the bonus track situation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condition_H%C3%BCman
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Was planning on just buying the Amazon download, but the CD was listed at only $9.99, and with free shipping, it looks like I'll have an actual hard copy. :metal
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Anyone got those bonus track? Are they worth it? I didn't realise there was a deluxe edition and just went for the regular. HAd a listen last night and nothing really jumped out at me beyond the songs I'd already heard. Brent's report of a dip in the middle felt pretty accurate and I thought it lacked diversity, which the last album had even in its short length. I missed the mixture of clean and high gain guitars that say QR to me as it all seemed heavy guitars, but it was only one quick listen. The vocal melodies mostly felt similar too but I hope repeated listens will bring out the differences.
Sounded excellent though.
I also played the new Trivium and that sounded like a belter :metal
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I have the standard edition Kade but if you look at the Wiki you'll see the bonus track situation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condition_H%C3%BCman
I'll get the deluxe, next week though. Silly JB, pushed back a week. :'(
I also played the new Trivium and that sounded like a belter :metal
Should have no problem getting this one tomorrow.
-
New reviews
https://rockposer.wordpress.com/2015/10/02/review-queensryche-condition-human/
https://www.lordsofmetal.nl/en/reviews/view/id/30644
https://www.eastvalleytribune.com/get_out/music/article_28f86aca-6891-11e5-b1e6-3bccb6ee29a7.html?mode=jqm
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Just a thought, but it would've been cool if QR had properly remastered the self-titled disc from 2013 and included that as bonus CD for those who bought a deluxe version of Condition Human.
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Okay, I'm almost through my first listen, and I'm going to save my overall judgement for later, but two things stood out immediately.
1. It sounds a lot better than the last album.
2. I swear, through either technique of studio magic there are times they are trying to make Todd sound as much like GT as possible.
In any case, a VERY promising first listen overall.
-
Track by track part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=21&v=DK2MJU2LGik
-
I have the standard edition Kade but if you look at the Wiki you'll see the bonus track situation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condition_H%C3%BCman
Aw, this is going to suck. I don't have a vinyl player :-[
By the way...I think I like the self titled release more than Condition Human at least from these two times that I have listened to CH. Not taking into account the mastering issues on the self titled, the self titled sounds a bit more dynamic as far as the music goes. CH sounds the same on most of the songs. I need a few more spins before passing final judgement.
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Fantastic album. Great artwork.
This is exactly what I want from modern day Queensryche. Sounds old school with a modern touch. Awesome!
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Wow, this is really good.
This is what I wanted the last album to be, but they were still finding their footing so its all good. This album on the other hand in really pretty damn good.
-
Has anybody picked up the jewel case version? I went to Best Buy and was going to buy a copy but when I grabbed, something sounded loose. I checked all of the remaining copies, and every single one had the same sound. Do you guys know if there's anything inside the cd like a flyer or something? It definitely sounded like a lose cd but, for all of the copies to have that same sound, was a bit odd.
-
Has anybody picked up the jewel case version? I went to Best Buy and was going to buy a copy but when I grabbed, something sounded loose. I checked all of the remaining copies, and every single one had the same sound. Do you guys know if there's anything inside the cd like a flyer or something? It definitely sounded like a lose cd but, for all of the copies to have that same sound, was a bit odd.
I got the jewel case and the disc fell out as soon as I opened it. Nothing was broken, it just appears to be a poorly designed case.
-
Has anybody picked up the jewel case version? I went to Best Buy and was going to buy a copy but when I grabbed, something sounded loose. I checked all of the remaining copies, and every single one had the same sound. Do you guys know if there's anything inside the cd like a flyer or something? It definitely sounded like a lose cd but, for all of the copies to have that same sound, was a bit odd.
I find a lot of the time that this is the actually booklet which just isn't a perfect fit to the case and slightly moves up and down giving off the sound something is broken. You should be able to see if this is the problem.
-
2. I swear, through either technique of studio magic there are times they are trying to make Todd sound as much like GT as possible.
That was my exact thought when first hearing Arrow of Time. Holy shit. It sounded more like Geoff than Todd. :lol
-
The title track is one of the best songs I've ever heard from QR. Awesome song.
On a side note, I really don't remember the last new release that I bought that had the old school black cd holder.
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This album's great. Bulletproof, Eye9 and the title track are all particularly fantastic!
-
Yeah, I like this album a lot, especially Just Us, Condition Human, Bulletproof, Guardian, Eye 9, and Hellfire. Hopefully many of these new songs will be included in the upcoming shows--it's ridiculous how their setlists have been practically identical for over 2 years.
-
2. I swear, through either technique of studio magic there are times they are trying to make Todd sound as much like GT as possible.
That was my exact thought when first hearing Arrow of Time. Holy shit. It sounded more like Geoff than Todd. :lol
Well, considering that's how Todd sounds live, I'm not thinking there's any studio shenanigans. It is uncanny though, and given how much of a dick Tater has turned into, when I hear early QR, I picture Todd now. :lol
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There are very few albums I enjoy front to back these days, and this is one of them. Even after the final track finishes I'm not fatigued from listening to it.
That, and the production and guitar work just has me so happy. Congrats to the guys on a great album.
-
After one listen i wasn't too impressed... But this album has quickly grown on me and i think it is great. So many great songs. If anyone is on the fence about getting this album i suggest going for it
-
After one listen i wasn't too impressed... But this album has quickly grown on me and i think it is great. So many great songs. If anyone is on the fence about getting this album i suggest going for it
Reading the various reviews, I might.
B.Lee
-
Finally gave it a proper listen all the way through. I love it. I freaking love it. This is what I wanted. The self-titled was good, but Condition Human is the comeback. Bulletproof is my favorite here. Just Us is a really good light song. All There Was is a great rocker. Pretty much every track is worth a listen. We have our long song at the end, we have a longer album length, the production doesn't irritate my ears as much. Combine this with that Dream Theater-esque album art, and yeah, I do believe we have a winner. This will probably be in my top ten of 2015 for sure.
Not sure there's anything on this I'd rank a masterpiece, but I'd easily rank this among the classics. I certainly enjoyed it the same way I enjoy the early stuff. And I can happily say "they're back".
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^ Yeah... it's superior to the s/t release in every way mentioned. I really like the s/t, but it was marred by the horrible production, and brevity.
-
After plenty of listens I'm putting this in the "good" category.
I don't think any one song really shines more than others, but my faves are Toxic Remedy, Bulletproof, Eye9, and Condition Human.
I'm just not sold on Todd's vocals and I don't think that'll change, and some of the songs don't have a lot of variation and seem to follow the same formula.
Its still miles above the last few Tate led efforts and that is a big positive.
-
Got my copy and having my first listen and up to All There Was.
Sounds good. Not quite feeling it, but seems like a grower.
I know what you mean regards to the solos Brent. Michael sounds a bit weird here, Just Us was particullary awkward sounding. And yeah man, the digi version I got has Espiritu Muerto as the bonus track.
Nothing yet is matching the beauty of In This Light or A World Without.
-
Hmmm....I don't know what to make of this album. Found it difficult to listen to on the first listen.
-
I think Guardian, Toxic Remedy, Bullet Proof and the title track are my favourites
-
Hmmm....I don't know what to make of this album. Found it difficult to listen to on the first listen.
It grew on me 3rd and 4th time around - aside from the solos :lol
-
I´m gonna say something controversal here. I like the Tate album better. It´s musically way more diverse, risky and, it just sounds better. Flamesuit on.
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I´m gonna say something controversal here. I like the Tate album better. It´s musically way more diverse, risky and, it just sounds better. Flamesuit on.
:omg:
:justjen
Nah, doesn't compute.
-
I'm going to record a review for this tonight. This album is just getting better and better with every listen.
Right now, I'd say my favorites are Hellfire, Eye9 and the title track. But honestly, there's only about 1 minutes worth of music on this album I don't like, and that would be the intro and outro for Just Us...which is really REALLY bad. As in...dreck. It is so unlike the rest of the song too, so it's surprising to me that it's even there. I'm planning on making a mix of that song which cuts off the first 34 seconds so the song will just begin with the main acoustic strumming riff. But then that dreadful crap ends the song too, so maybe I can fade it out early. The rest of the song is actually really good.
-
I´m gonna say something controversal here. I like the Tate album better. It´s musically way more diverse, risky and, it just sounds better. Flamesuit on.
:omg:
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Hey folks, my review for your reading (or, at bottom of page, listening) pleasure.
https://wpapu.com/review-queensryche-condition-human/
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Great write-up Nick! I'm right with you on most points.
I just filmed my new review and I'm waiting for it to upload...
-
Great review!
-
New theme song for the show, and a new review of Condition Human!
Welcome to Jammin Dude's Neighborhood!!!
https://youtu.be/vVvfPVhEeXw
-
Hmmm....I don't know what to make of this album. Found it difficult to listen to on the first listen.
It grew on me 3rd and 4th time around - aside from the solos :lol
I hope so. Not really digging it so far.
-
Hmmm....I don't know what to make of this album. Found it difficult to listen to on the first listen.
It grew on me 3rd and 4th time around - aside from the solos :lol
I hope so. Not really digging it so far.
It does get better with repeated plays. I was a little unsure to start with - I enjoyed it ok, but it didn't sound very Queensryche to me. It's getting regular plays now.
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Hmmm....I don't know what to make of this album. Found it difficult to listen to on the first listen.
It grew on me 3rd and 4th time around - aside from the solos :lol
I hope so. Not really digging it so far.
It does get better with repeated plays. I was a little unsure to start with - I enjoyed it ok, but it didn't sound very Queensryche to me. It's getting regular plays now.
It reminds me a lot of later Fates Warning, especially the last album. Better on the second listen, but will keep spinning it.
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It does get better with repeated plays.
Never understood this. It works when you love something, then get more into and figure out the details of why you love it. But going from not digging it to "Wait. This is awesome." Sounds more like brainwashing yourself.
I have to admit, I haven't even listened to it uninterrupted or even complete as background music. As far as new stuff, I've been liking Bring Me the Horizon's That's the Spirit, so I usually listen to that which leaves me with less of an urge to turn Queensryche on in the car.
-
As I said in my post, I liked it on first listen. It's got better as I heard it more. Nothing strange in that. I do instant - hell I am a hair metal fan :biggrin:
I've hated enough QR albums to know the difference.
-
It does get better with repeated plays.
Never understood this. It works when you love something, then get more into and figure out the details of why you love it. But going from not digging it to "Wait. This is awesome." Sounds more like brainwashing yourself.
Nothing you've ever seen, listened to or done in your life has clicked after a couple views/listens/uses?
-
It does get better with repeated plays.
Never understood this. It works when you love something, then get more into and figure out the details of why you love it. But going from not digging it to "Wait. This is awesome." Sounds more like brainwashing yourself.
Nothing you've ever seen, listened to or done in your life has clicked after a couple views/listens/uses?
We are talking solely about music here. Music is pretty straightforward. The only thing that affects that is bias (when I was younger and could occasionally cave into the "that's not a cool band" from my musician peers) and the passage of time. But that usually means years, not hours or days.
When I truly love something in music, it is basically immediate and makes me stop everything to give it my undivided attention (assuming I'm not driving or something similar).
And when I branch out into other styles, it is usually because I've over-saturated the past and current styles and have a drug like craving for something very different.
But have I ever listened to something, not dug it, then forced myself to listen to it 2 to 10 more times until I do? Never. If I didn't form an opinion, it is probably because I was too pre-occupied with life's events to actually listen. Pressing pause 8 times in a song because the phone is ringing off the hook. Turning it down to talk to somebody, so I may have not really listened to that track ... literally.
Right now, this is the case with the QR for me. I have it, but I only listened to about 10 seconds from each track except the 3 singles they released. I immediately loved Guardian, so I expect to like at least some of the new album once I actually listen to it.
-
Some albums are instant clicks for me, and others take a few listens. It was certainly that way with Dream Theater's albums. I couldn't make it through Octavarium it was so boring, but over time it clicked. I wouldn't call it brainwashing. Some music just takes time, especially if there is a lot of stuff going on.
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We are talking solely about music here. Music is pretty straightforward. The only thing that affects that is bias (when I was younger and could occasionally cave into the "that's not a cool band" from my musician peers) and the passage of time. But that usually means years, not hours or days.
I dunno, there have been a number of albums that just didn't work for me and I revisited them months or years later and was blown away. Sometimes it just takes the right emotion or time in your life for something to click. Sometimes they just never do.
I don't "force" myself to like something. I revisit an album I haven't listened to after a while to see if anything's changed with the way I feel about it. Sometimes it happens.
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So after listening to Condition Human about 6-8 times, I have to say that I am very happy with this. I loved Queensryche back in the day. But lost interest with Promised Land.
Condition Human is the follow up to Empire that I've been waiting for. Finally!!
I liked the s/t well enough. It didn't blow me away, as it felt like a band kind of feeling their way. CH shows a band with much more confidence and purpose. It has a real Empire era feel with many classic QR moments. Holy hell does Todd sound like Geoff. But he's amazing in his own right.
Wilton, Jackson, and Rockenfield are 3 lucky bastards for finding Todd. After hearing CH, I have way more confidence in them going forward. The title track is amazing. It stands up with their best songs I feel. Also love Guardian, Hellfire, Hourglass, All There Was.
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I dunno, there have been a number of albums that just didn't work for me and I revisited them months or years later and was blown away.
I addressed exactly that. Years later, not multiple listens in the span of a few days. That's because something changed in you, not because it just took another listen as if you are studying for a test.
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I dunno, there have been a number of albums that just didn't work for me and I revisited them months or years later and was blown away.
I addressed exactly that. Years later, not multiple listens in the span of a few days. That's because something changed in you, not because it just took another listen as if you are studying for a test.
Couldn't disagree more. Yes somethings take a change in something over a significant time (often, personal tastes and/or preferences), but first impressions change more immediately - sometimes for the better; sometimes for the worse. Sometimes we're swayed by some level of expectation; sometimes it's more about cleansing one's listening palette. Just like a fine wine or scotch, the first taste just gets your palette ready for the real taste. Maybe it's the same with music sometimes.
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For me, I'm pretty sure it took a few listens for even Images & Words to click when I first heard it. I have to listen a few times just to take in all the music. I find it helps reading the lyrics as I play the album.
As far as CH goes, I really think Toxic Remedy and especially Bulletproof could be big hits if marketed correctly. I love them!
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As far as CH goes, I really think Toxic Remedy and especially Bulletproof could be big hits if marketed correctly. I love them!
I can't remember if it was the songs you highlighted but I do recall thinking at one point "This could do alright as a single if it got the promotion". But then what would i know about popular music these days? :lol
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Toxic Remedy is the most Mindrime/Empire sounding of all the songs on the album.
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After a week of spins, I really really like this album.
Bulletproof, and Eye9 are excellent
Hellfire is kickass
Just us is beautiful
The title track is very cool as well.
This is one solid ass album
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I've always said that Promised Land was "Rage For Order with a budget"... Well, this is "The Warning with a budget". The only difference is that I like RFO more than PL, but I like this more than The Warning.
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For me, I'm pretty sure it took a few listens for even Images & Words to click when I first heard it.
I can definitively say I knew I had found my new favorite band before track 1 even made it to the verse after the 1st chorus. I even took a picture of myself at that exact point in time.
(https://www.neostuff.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/jennifer-lawrence-reaction-celebgate.jpg)
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3rd listen in and it's starting to open up.
I´m gonna say something controversal here. I like the Tate album better. It´s musically way more diverse, risky and, it just sounds better. Flamesuit on.
Tate, is that you?
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No it isn't. And I really mean it. There's something in the mix or sound of this album that annoys the hell out of me. As great as some of the tracks are.
People that are calling 'The Key' a piece of shit are just lazy listeners to me. But the lines seem to be drawn in the sand, so I respect everyone's opinion.
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No it isn't. And I really mean it. There's something in the mix or sound of this album that annoys the hell out of me. As great as some of the tracks are.
People that are calling 'The Key' a piece of shit are just lazy listeners to me. But the lines seem to be drawn in the sand, so I respect everyone's opinion.
Two decent songs and more of the same shit Tate has been peddling for over a decade. He talks through the album, there's no singing other than the song the guest vocalist sings. That's not lazy listening. The sound of the album is fine but there's no riffs to speak of, just down tuned blandness. They've put time and effort in, well the band has. I just don't like most of the songs.
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Lowdz when you mention two decent songs, please tell me you aren't including " The Stranger"
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I only counted one decent song. And yes, I actually listened to the whole album.
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I'll give you that the OMC material I've heard does have some interesting ideas...but Taint voice is just completely destroyed. The guys almost croaks more than he sings. Everytime I hear an OMC single, I start by thinking "hey! This isn't half bad!" But then Tate starts singing and it never ceases to amaze me just how far the guy has fallen. I'd be hard pressed to think of a person who has lost that much of their voice who is still active. Gordon Lightfoot maybe?
Condition Human OTOH is shockingly good. Arrow of Time had me skeptical, but the rest of the album won me over. Now there are several ear worms I can't get out of my head. Guardian and Eye9 in particular.
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We are talking solely about music here. Music is pretty straightforward.
uhm, no.
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Lowdz when you mention two decent songs, please tell me you aren't including " The Stranger"
Yeah, it's ok. Not enough to drag me back.
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here is one the bonus tracks Espiritu Muerto (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=h1xDHb-U198)
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here is one the bonus tracks Espiritu Muerto (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=h1xDHb-U198)
Great tune
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New review : https://www.995themountain.com/Queensryche-Condition-Human-CD-Review-/20070470?pid=506122
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https://bravewords.com/news/queensryche-announce-north-american-headline-tour
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I can't express how much I hate the Paladium.
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I can't express how much I hate the Paladium.
It'd be fine if it wasn't in Worcester.
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A headlining tour where they don't even play their own hometown? :facepalm:
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I can't express how much I hate the Paladium.
It'd be fine if it wasn't in Worcester.
That building in ANY city would still be a dump. Its also a dump that would take an hours drive for me to get to. :censored :censored
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I can't express how much I hate the Paladium.
It'd be fine if it wasn't in Worcester.
That building in ANY city would still be a dump. Its also a dump that would take an hours drive for me to get to. :censored :censored
Are you local to Mass?
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Listened to this album again yesterday and it's growing big time, great album.
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A headlining tour where they don't even play their own hometown? :facepalm:
:D
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Listened to this album again yesterday and it's growing big time, great album.
:tup
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Glad to see they'll be playing a headlining show in Denver. They opened for the Scorpions last month but I didn't want to make the drive to see them do an opening set. But I'll definitely go up for this one.
Also I'm really loving the new album. It took a few listens for it to grow on me but it is really good. I'm so glad it isn't brickwalled like the last one.
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Listened to this album again yesterday and it's growing big time, great album.
:tup
Damn straight it is.
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Finally got the chance to listen to this a couple of times. Hasn't completely sunk in yet but sounds great so far. Not sure if it surpasses the self-titled and can reach up to the great ones but still a very fun listen. If they keep it up they will be able to redeem some of their more questionable career moves.
And Todd LaTorre at times sounds more like Tate than Tate himself, it's fitting but kinda creepy.
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GEOFF TATE: 'I Generally Have A Difficult Time Marrying The Two Concepts Of Art And Commerce'
" I can't find a priest willing to do it " :neverusethis:
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I still cannot get over how good this album is. It definitely does seem to drop off a bit after the first few tracks, but is still incredibly strong overall. The run of the first four tracks alone is worth the price.
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RIP British actor Anthony Valentine, Dr X.
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RIP British actor Anthony Valentine, Dr X.
Damn that sucks. Didn't know anything about him but he seemed like a boss.
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He was pretty well known here in the uk in the 70s/early 80s. Starred in Colditz and as a posh thief in Raffles. Well before you're time mate :biggrin:
I love his performance as Dr X. Calmly malevolent.
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Yeah beastly Dr X.
And yeah, just slightly before my time haha.
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For me, I'm pretty sure it took a few listens for even Images & Words to click when I first heard it.
I can definitively say I knew I had found my new favorite band before track 1 even made it to the verse after the 1st chorus. I even took a picture of myself at that exact point in time.
(https://www.neostuff.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/jennifer-lawrence-reaction-celebgate.jpg)
Thank you for sharing...!...
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Just bought the new album last week after having written this band off many years ago.
I am blown away by how good "Condition Human" is.
This is the album Queensryche should have made after "Empire" Instead we got some pretty mediocre albums followed by some horrible albums followed by a whole lot of drama culminating with the washed up lead vocalist finally leaving the band and allowing them to go back to actually making good music again.
I predict a solid comeback similar to Iron Maiden's reunion and eventual return to form.
Todd La Torre is godlike on this thing. :eek
And this may be the best lineup QR have ever had.
Parker Lundgren's guitar solos are pretty fucking sweet too. :metal
I have to give this one 4.5 of 5 stars. A few minor gripes with the production values prevent me from giving it a 5.0 but in terms of performances it's definitely a 5.0
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This is the album Queensryche should have made after "Empire"
Exactly how I feel.
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Parker Lundgren's guitar solos are pretty fucking sweet too. :metal
He doesn't solo anywhere near as much as he should.
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Its definitely the album I would want to hear from QR. Awesome stuff.
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It was a massive grower for me, but I think it's fantastic.
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I still think for the band not to release Bulletproof and Toxic Remedy is a shame. Those can be big cross over hits.
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Bulletproof is incredible. It's the In This Light of the new album.
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Just saw there is another bonus track called Mercury Rising. Anyone heard that one?
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Just saw there is another bonus track called Mercury Rising. Anyone heard that one?
just okay - as i mentioned somewhere I thought the track I selected for the podcast was clearly better. I wouldn't bother with it myself.
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Bulletproof is incredible. It's the In This Light of the new album.
In This Light not being released from the s/t was a major head scratcher.
Who makes decisions to officially release songs? Radio play will help a band like QR big time.
And they are sitting on some gold mines; bulletproof is one of the best ballads Ive heard in recent memory.
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Just saw there is another bonus track called Mercury Rising. Anyone heard that one?
just okay - as i mentioned somewhere I thought the track I selected for the podcast was clearly better. I wouldn't bother with it myself.
All I need to hear mate.
Bulletproof is incredible. It's the In This Light of the new album.
Who makes decisions to officially release songs? Radio play will help a band like QR big time.
And they are sitting on some gold mines; bulletproof is one of the best ballads Ive heard in recent memory.
It is strange, but with most hard rock, melodic rock and some metal, this could be said. So many songs that are hit material or definitely would have been back in the day.
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Just saw there is another bonus track called Mercury Rising. Anyone heard that one?
just okay - as i mentioned somewhere I thought the track I selected for the podcast was clearly better. I wouldn't bother with it myself.
All I need to hear mate.
Bulletproof is incredible. It's the In This Light of the new album.
Who makes decisions to officially release songs? Radio play will help a band like QR big time.
And they are sitting on some gold mines; bulletproof is one of the best ballads Ive heard in recent memory.
It is strange, but with most hard rock, melodic rock and some metal, this could be said. So many songs that are hit material or definitely would have been back in the day.
It's the record label's fault, primarily. Here in the states they don't seem to push the right songs to radio (if at all). I know it's expensive to get those songs to active radio but they are awesome tracks, a real shame they're not getting better exposure.
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Just saw there is another bonus track called Mercury Rising. Anyone heard that one?
just okay - as i mentioned somewhere I thought the track I selected for the podcast was clearly better. I wouldn't bother with it myself.
I disagree, I think Mercury Rising is really good and better than half of the songs of CH.
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It's the record label's fault, primarily. Here in the states they don't seem to push the right songs to radio (if at all). I know it's expensive to get those songs to active radio but they are awesome tracks, a real shame they're not getting better exposure.
I don't see radio stations playing Queensryche in 2015 regardless of how much the label tried to push. Programming directors see "Queensryche" on the label, and it's going in the trash.
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What about 46 North? That's supposedly the other bonus track in the 7'' vinyls. Has anyone heard this one?
I hate this bonus track exclusively for vinyls.
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It's the record label's fault, primarily. Here in the states they don't seem to push the right songs to radio (if at all). I know it's expensive to get those songs to active radio but they are awesome tracks, a real shame they're not getting better exposure.
I don't see radio stations playing Queensryche in 2015 regardless of how much the label tried to push. Programming directors see "Queensryche" on the label, and it's going in the trash.
This unfortunately.
Just saw there is another bonus track called Mercury Rising. Anyone heard that one?
just okay - as i mentioned somewhere I thought the track I selected for the podcast was clearly better. I wouldn't bother with it myself.
I disagree, I think Mercury Rising is really good and better than half of the songs of CH.
No shit hey? Might have to look for it.
What about 46 North? That's supposedly the other bonus track in the 7'' vinyls. Has anyone heard this one?
I hate this bonus track exclusively for vinyls.
Brent featured that on his podcast, and I thought it was pretty damn good actually.
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Missed that podcast. Man, I hope they release those two (or three if you count, Espiritu Muerto) in some sort of digital way, CD would be better....
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You know, I'd definitely buy this album again if they did like a tour edition with all three bonus tracks and a full live show or something. Even a DVD, that would be wonderful.
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I did write off Mercury Rising a bit quick Kade..........I liked it a lot better on second listen. ;D It sounds like a leftover from around the Empire/Promised Land era to me and something that they could write in their sleep (which is why I was a bit "Meh" at first and favoured the other track) , but certainly worth a listen.
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You know, I'd definitely buy this album again if they did like a tour edition with all three bonus tracks and a full live show or something. Even a DVD, that would be wonderful.
It would get my money in a second as well.
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I did write off Mercury Rising a bit quick Kade..........I liked it a lot better on second listen. ;D It sounds like a leftover from around the Empire/Promised Land era to me and something that they could write in their sleep (which is why I was a bit "Meh" at first and favoured the other track) , but certainly worth a listen.
Yeah, T-Ski sent me a youtube link and I quite liked it a lot. Definitely a PL era type of song. All three could be included on the album IMO.
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I don't think I ever gave the self-titled release a fair chance. Condition Human took a good 4 or 5 listens to start sinking in, but I am positive that I didn't listen to the s/t more than twice.
Another grower like Condition Human? Maybe I should give it another shot
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Give it a shot Kirk. I never got as gaga over it as most people. It feels like they rushed it out and it also feels like an extended EP. Where Dreams Go To Die is fantastic though. I still felt they had something to prove as it really is not a convincer.
Condition Human is obviously much better.
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Another grower like Condition Human? Maybe I should give it another shot
Yes, but not anywhere near as much of a grower as CH IMO.
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Both clicked for me right off the bat. But in my case it may be that I'm just happy that Queensryche rocks again
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Both clicked for me right off the bat. But in my case it may be that I'm just happy that Queensryche rocks again
Ditto.... production issues aside from the s/t, I really enjoyed the writing and delivery.
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Both clicked for me right off the bat. But in my case it may be that I'm just happy that Queensryche rocks again
I hear you. For me, I'm just happy that jjrocks.
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Yeah, spun it again for the first time many months this morning at the gym. I Remember Now...why I didn't like it so much. It's brickwalled all to hell. Totally mashed the entire soundstage up against the ceiling. It even clipps in a few places. Lots of good songs and some great ideas, but I also agree with the "rushed" criticism as well. It sounds like a release that was hastily recorded, mixed, mastered and printed just to get it out there. It's too bad because I think there are a ton of good ideas that could have evolved into a much better album had they taken more time with it, but given the circumstances in 2013 with all of the legal crap with taint...I can see why they wanted to release something without him. They wanted to demonstrate that they were moving on. And they certainly succeeded there. Even though "Queensryche" is brickwalled, it's still better than the utter garbage they released with their last few albums with the taint.
I haven't dug much into the recording/production/mastering process of either album, but I'm sure glad someone turned the volume down. The s/t reminds me of Death Magnetic in that both albums have a collection of strong songs but the mastering so ridiculously hot it clips on everything, pretty much constantly. :facepalm:
Ugh, OK, someone talk me off the ledge ;) :lol
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I don't disagree with any of that. But I do still find the album VERY worthwhile to listen to.
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I don't disagree with any of that. But I do still find the album VERY worthwhile to listen to.
Ditto... it's good enough (albeit short) for me to listen past the fact it's brick'd. I hope they remaster it one day (ala Vapour Trails)
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I don't disagree with any of that. But I do still find the album VERY worthwhile to listen to.
Ditto... it's good enough (albeit short) for me to listen past the fact it's brick'd. I hope they remaster it one day (ala Vapour Trails)
I still really like it but yes, it could have been awesome. Open Road should really have developed into an epic, where now it's just a nice ballad.
I really love WDGtD. A true QR song.
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I'll have to give CH more listens still, but I actually prefer the music on the ST to CH... yeah the production (mix/mastering/whatever) was bad but CH feels a little bland in comparison to me for some reason (not bad but not a lot stood out initially). I've meant to try to give more time to CH and will have to soon.
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Even if the self titled has some produciton issues, it actually never was a problem for me at all.
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CH feels a bit samey to me. Quality samey, but it lacks some variety.
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CH feels a bit samey to me. Quality samey, but it lacks some variety.
I would totally disagree with that. I actually think there's a lot of variety compared to the last one.
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CH feels a bit samey to me. Quality samey, but it lacks some variety.
I would totally disagree with that. I actually think there's a lot of variety compared to the last one.
On this topic, I'm with the king of wolves.
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Yeah, he's not wolfking around.
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He marches to his own Kadence.
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You guys are all boss! :) :metal
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I agree with the wolfster, alot more variety on CH. Was just cranking it today, this thing gets better with every listen.
I've mentioned that Bullet Proof is one of the best ballads Ive heard in a long time, but also Toxic Remedy is one of the best hard rock songs Ive heard in recent memory. Love that tune
And the title track is pure epic.
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Come to think of it, I think there is loads of variety on this, perhaps one of Ryche's most varied albums. Dunno how you come up with that personally Paul.
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CH feels a bit samey to me. Quality samey, but it lacks some variety.
I would totally disagree with that. I actually think there's a lot of variety compared to the last one.
Yeah, same here. I find that to be an odd critique. I thought it had quite a few interesting and unexpected twists and turns.
Anyway, listened to the S/T in the car and it's much better that way. And yeah, overall a good album and a return to form after many years of sub-par and downright strange offerings. These last two albums speak to a very bright future for these guys.
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These last two albums speak to a very bright future for these guys.
...provided that they break past precedent and actually SUPPORT the new material by playing a significant amount of it on tour rather than going the pure nostalgia route.
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These last two albums speak to a very bright future for these guys.
...provided that they break past precedent and actually SUPPORT the new material by playing a significant amount of it on tour rather than going the pure nostalgia route.
Totally agree!
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Come to think of it, I think there is loads of variety on this, perhaps one of Ryche's most varied albums. Dunno how you come up with that personally Paul.
Seems like I'm in a minority. I've not played it that much due to the number of albums that came out around the same time, and only really played it in the car. I must be missing something - I'll have another listen.
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Took me a few listens Paul. I first I wasn't impressed by it at all and found it hard to get my head around the tracks, but I fucking love it now.
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I was pretty "meh" on the S/T but I've listened to it a couple of times now over the last few days and it's much better than I gave it credit for. I think it just dropped at a time when there were other things taking my attention.
CH impressed me immediately because the production values are so much better than they were on the S/T. In fact, I'd say that in terms production CH is very similar to "Empire" and "Promised Land." Crisp and clear highs -you can pick up the high-hats, ride cymbals, nuances and inflections in the vocals, you know all those little details that tend to disappear behind a wall of noise on albums like, say, "Death Magnetic" by Metallica or "The Herion Diaries" by Nicky Sixx. On CH that signature sound that identifies Queensryche almost immediately upon hearing a minute or so of one of their songs is back. The interesting and unexpected chord phrasings, the melodies, the orchestrated instrumentation, everything their most recent and frankly awful output lacked.
I haven't looked much into who produced or where it was recorded. But this is a well-produced album.
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Took me a few listens Paul. I first I wasn't impressed by it at all and found it hard to get my head around the tracks, but I fucking love it now.
Oh I enjoyed it well enough.
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I was pretty "meh" on the S/T but I've listened to it a couple of times now over the last few days and it's much better than I gave it credit for. I think it just dropped at a time when there were other things taking my attention.
CH impressed me immediately because the production values are so much better than they were on the S/T. In fact, I'd say that in terms production CH is very similar to "Empire" and "Promised Land." Crisp and clear highs -you can pick up the high-hats, ride cymbals, nuances and inflections in the vocals, you know all those little details that tend to disappear behind a wall of noise on albums like, say, "Death Magnetic" by Metallica or "The Herion Diaries" by Nicky Sixx. On CH that signature sound that identifies Queensryche almost immediately upon hearing a minute or so of one of their songs is back. The interesting and unexpected chord phrasings, the melodies, the orchestrated instrumentation, everything their most recent and frankly awful output lacked.
I haven't looked much into who produced or where it was recorded. But this is a well-produced album.
It was actually produced by Chris "Zeuss" Harris, which surprised a lot of people I think. He does a lot of work with more heavier metal bands, and his recent production work includes Rob Zombie, Sanctuary, Visions of Disorder, Revocation & Demon Hunter among others.
He was a big QR fan growing up though, and did a fantastic job on this album IMO.
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Wow, that's very interesting! :corn
I would never have heard of Chris "Zeuss" Harris because I don't listen to that kind of music at all.
I have to say, I'm pretty impressed. :hat
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Having a quality listen now. Guardian and Hellfire could be the reason I felt it lacks variety - the vocal melodies seem very similar to me and coming at tracks 2 and 3 probably hasn't helped.
I'll say it again though, I do love this album. QR are back, baby.
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Todd La Torre is going to join Sir Russell Allen at the top of my favorite vocalists list.
Dude has amazing pipes :hefdaddy
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I'm loving Todd too.
Having a quality listen now. Guardian and Hellfire could be the reason I felt it lacks variety - the vocal melodies seem very similar to me and coming at tracks 2 and 3 probably hasn't helped.
I can see what you are saying with those two tracks, but that's about it.
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I also don't mind two tracks sounding similar when those two tracks are THAT good. Honestly, if this album sucked out loud from track 5 onward, tracks 1-4 alone would STILL make this the best Queensryche album in ages.
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The s/t has grown on me big time this week. Glad I went back to it. :metal
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I also don't mind two tracks sounding similar when those two tracks are THAT good. Honestly, if this album sucked out loud from track 5 onward, tracks 1-4 alone would STILL make this the best Queensryche album in ages.
It wouldn't have been as noticeable if they had been separated, but to follow one another like that certainly made a bit of a negative impression. The only track I don't love is the one that sounds like a track Tateryche would do (selfish lives).
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I also don't mind two tracks sounding similar when those two tracks are THAT good. Honestly, if this album sucked out loud from track 5 onward, tracks 1-4 alone would STILL make this the best Queensryche album in ages.
It wouldn't have been as noticeable if they had been separated, but to follow one another like that certainly made a bit of a negative impression. The only track I don't love is the one that sounds like a track Tateryche would do (selfish lives).
I wasn't crazy about that one at first either. But in the flow of the album, it works, and I like it a lot now.
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Selfish Lives is great IMO. The only song I think is average is Just Us. It's still decent, but the rest are at a much higher tier.
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Selfish Lives is great IMO. The only song I think is average is Just Us. It's still decent, but the rest are at a much higher tier.
Selfish Lives and Just Us were the two songs that I felt were slightly average when I first listened to the album. I've since grown to enjoy them both a lot. Not a weak track on this album.
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Just Us may have the worst intro of any QR song in history (not counting the stuff I haven't heard. i.e...most of Dedicated to Chaos and FU). But it totally redeems itself. It's like if you tacked a Loverboy intro onto a halfway decent Dream Theater ballad.
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Just Us may have the worst intro of any QR song in history (not counting the stuff I haven't heard. i.e...most of Dedicated to Chaos and FU). But it totally redeems itself. It's like if you tacked a Loverboy intro onto a halfway decent Dream Theater ballad.
I like the Loverboy/Dream Theater analogy!!
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Yeah, the whole first minute or so just sticks out and not in a good way.
Was pumping this album again in the car this weekend and I'm bloody loving it!
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I play it so often in my car that I'm positive that everyone I chauffeur around hates me AND Queensr˙che.
It's not even a year after and I'm already looking forward to a follow-up. Maybe they'll hit us with a dank political concept album reminiscent of Operation: Mindcrime (because Tater ain't getting the job done with his new band).
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Just Us may have the worst intro of any QR song in history (not counting the stuff I haven't heard. i.e...most of Dedicated to Chaos and FU). But it totally redeems itself. It's like if you tacked a Loverboy intro onto a halfway decent Dream Theater ballad.
Totally this. I've come to really like the song but that intro still sucks big time.
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When that song started the very first time I listened to the album, I actually said out loud, "what the fuck is this?" :lol
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When that song started the very first time I listened to the album, I actually said out loud, "what the fuck is this?" :lol
I'm pretty sure I said the same thing when I heard "The Stranger"
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Add me to that list too :lol
Love the album, though. It's at least a 4, maybe a 4.5 :hat
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yeah I keep gravitating to CH; haven't even remotely tired of it yet.
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When that song started the very first time I listened to the album, I actually said out loud, "what the fuck is this?" :lol
I'm pretty sure I said the same thing when I heard "The Stranger"
:lol
yeah I keep gravitating to CH; haven't even remotely tired of it yet.
Yeah, it has the appeal to make you want to keep coming back to it.
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I don't know if anyone will be catching them on tour, but this was the setlist from their opening show last night. They did start late due to some technical issues though:
Guardian
Operation Mindcrime
Best I can
Damaged
The killing words
The Mission
In this light
Empire.
Anybody listening
Bulletproof
Queen of the Reich
jet city woman
Take hold of the flame
---encore---
Screaming in Digital
Eyes of a Stranger
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Cool that they're starting to acknowledge PL now!
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Anybody Listening? Excellent, one of their best songs. That's a great setlist. The old one was very stale.
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Not bad at all, but like the last tour more nostalgia than new songs.
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Not bad at all, but like the last tour more nostalgia than new songs.
Exactly! They've been touring for 3+ years with the same era for their material, and a lot of the same exact songs - Empire, Jet City Woman, Eyes of A Stranger, Queen of the Reich, Take Hold of the Flame, . Time to shit or get off the pot - do more stuff from the current albums.
This is a better setlist, but only a minor step in the right direction.
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That's a really good setlist but only 3 Todd songs. Should be at least 6, come one guys, the new stuff is the bomb, be proud and play it.
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Still a cool setlist. Almost tempted to take the wife to see them.
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This is the tour where they are opening for Scorpions, correct? If so, while I sympathize with the argument that they should be playing more of the new album, I get why they aren't. #1, it isn't their crowd; it is the headliner's crowd. That means the majority of people there aren't hardcore Queensryche fans. Even if new material is excellent (which it is), a lot of them are likely to get bored hearing a bunch of songs they don't know. I hate to say it, but better to play the nostalgia card and play what people want to hear, with a few new tunes sprinkled in. #2, it is a shorter set, so harder to fit a lot of new songs in. 3 out of 15 is 1/5 of the set. As an opener, that is actually probably about right. I would expect 5-6 in a headlining set, but 3-4 sounds about right as an opener.
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No bosk1. I saw them backing up the Scorps. Now they are headlining.
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Okay, cancel my last then. Yeah, they should be playing more. (and more songs in general--15 songs is too short)
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That's a really good setlist but only 3 Todd songs. Should be at least 6, come one guys, the new stuff is the bomb, be proud and play it.
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Not too bad, I'd watch this set.
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Okay, cancel my last then. Yeah, they should be playing more. (and more songs in general--15 songs is too short)
When they opened for Scrops, I think they only had 7 or 8 songs, and only did Guardian from the new album. Everything else was Empire and earlier - so you're bang on with the other post.
Like I said, they've been touring for almost 3 years now (Todd joined at the end of Feb/12, iirc). I'd think that they've restored the name enough now that they can move on from playing the 80s era stuff primarily. At least 1/2 and 1/2 now that they've got 2 solid albums, and 20 songs to pull from. Yeah... 15 songs only? Was it only a 90 minute set?
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So, anyway, I just came back here to say that I had a change of heart about the self titled release and have really been enjoying it quite a bit over the last few weeks.
I'm not entirely sure why it never got my attention before, but I'm glad I finally clicked with it.
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I'm not entirely sure why it never got my attention before, but I'm glad I finally clicked with it.
It happens. Happened with Endgame for me not long ago.
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new video for "Eye9"....
https://youtu.be/Wiqf6V5iFpY
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Okay, cancel my last then. Yeah, they should be playing more. (and more songs in general--15 songs is too short)
I want to begin by saying that I think Queensryche is going through a major transition, and that, to me, their current sound is something of a hybrid of the original band that is maybe becoming something else, but not entirely a new or different band. I thought that the last few QR albums with or WITHOUT Tate were somewhat mediocre, but every one of them had at least five songs that I liked. I think Condition Human is a fine "sophomore" effort by a band that, like I said seems to be on it's way to BECOMING something else, but not entirely different from the "original" queensryche sound. I thought this one was a BIG improvement over the 2013 album, so who knows? Maybe the next one will REALLY be something special!
Anyway, Bosk, you said you wanted a longer show with more songs, so I put together a two-hour show (is that long enough for you?) that has all of the songs that I like from the last two albums, seven from CH (8 if you count The Aftermath) and five from the 2013 album, along with a mix of "classics" and songs that haven't been heard for a long time, or have maybe NEVER been played live. I'm not really all that picky about the ORDER that the songs would go in, but I do like my choices for first two and last three songs.
1) Guardian
2) Vindication (I think this one would kick ass live!)
3) Surgical Strike (from RfO)
4) Eye9
5) Nightrider (from the '83 EP. I don't think they've EVER played this song live-or at least not since 1984-85)
6) Where Dreams Go to Die
7) Disconnected (One of my favorite Promised Land tracks)
8) Selfish Lives
9) Another Rainy Night (Without You)
10) Don't Look Back
11) Deliverance (from The Warning)
12) The Right Side of My Mind (just to throw in something different)
13) I Will Remember ( something a little more "ballady" from RfO)
14) Toxic Remedy
15) The Needle Lies (for the most part I would stay away from MindCrime because of Tate's band, etc., but I think this one is a good exception to that rule...)
17) Signs Say Go/
18) Re-Arrange You (from MindCrime 2)
19) Hellfire
20) The Aftermath
21) Spool (One of my favorites from HitNF)
22) Spore
23) Arrow of Time
24) Burning Man (my favorite from Q2K)
25) Redemption (my favorite 2013 track)
26) Condition Human
Encore:
1) Take Hold of the Flame
2) Walk in the Shadows
3) Empire
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new video for "Eye9"....
https://youtu.be/Wiqf6V5iFpY
cool video!
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I don't know if that setlist is just a dream set, but there is not way they would play a set anywhere close to that.
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If I'm wishlisting a QR set...
1. 9:28 AM - I Am I
2. Speak
3. The Whisper
4. Spore
5. Hellfire
6. Neue Regel
7. Damaged
8. Revolution Calling
9. Operation Mindcrime
10. The Mission
11. Suite Sister Mary
12. A World Without
13. Guardian
14. Eye 9
15. NM 156
16. Screaming in Digital
17. The Right Side of My Mind
18. The Aftermath/Condition Human
Encore
Queen of the Reich
Empire
Take Hold of the Flame
EDIT: I suppose in some ways, this is still a bit "safe"...there's only 6 new songs. But it seems both somewhat realistic and still awesome.
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Wish sets IMO should still be somewhat realistic.
jammindude, that's a fucking cool set.
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Wish sets IMO should still be somewhat realistic.
jammindude, that's a fucking cool set.
Thank you. I kindof made it on the fly, but after I was done, I said..."DAMN! That's actually a REALLY COOL SET!!" I wanna send it to the band now.
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I don't know if that setlist is just a dream set, but there is not way they would play a set anywhere close to that.
Why NOT???
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If I'm wishlisting a QR set...
1. 9:28 AM - I Am I
2. Speak
3. The Whisper
4. Spore
5. Hellfire
6. Neue Regel
7. Damaged
8. Revolution Calling
9. Operation Mindcrime
10. The Mission
11. Suite Sister Mary
12. A World Without
13. Guardian
14. Eye 9
15. NM 156
16. Screaming in Digital
17. The Right Side of My Mind
18. The Aftermath/Condition Human
Encore
Queen of the Reich
Empire
Take Hold of the Flame
EDIT: I suppose in some ways, this is still a bit "safe"...there's only 6 new songs. But it seems both somewhat realistic and still awesome.
How LONG would this show be?
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@chaossystem: Not a bad set list. I don't think it is realistic either because it has WAY too much new material (not too much for the fans, but too much in terms of being way out of proportion to what they have been playing). But I like it. If they played that, I would be pretty happy. I especially like the inclusion of The Right Side of My Mind and the Mindcrime II songs. Nightrider is an interesting addition. I could be mistaken, but I think they have done that one with Todd.
As far as the last few Tate albums, my opinion differs slightly from yours. I found NOTHING on D2C that I could even listen to a second time after my first listen to that disk. I couldn't find 5 songs I like if I tried. The ones before that are a different story. Every other album (minus the covers album and Q2K) had a lot of good music that was only ruined by Tate's "singing," and a handful of duds. Heck, if Tate had done a halfway decent job with the vocals on American Soldier, I would easily hold that one up there with the classics even in spite of the band being shut out of the writing. Overall, Slater actually did a good job with the music on Mindcrime II and American Soldier. It's a shame Tate leaned too heavily on him and shut the rest of the band out.
@jammindude: I'd take that in a heartbeat. That's a good set right there. And pretty realistic.
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Does anyone actually think that the band will ever play any material from Hear in the Now Frontier- OM2? American Soldier and DTC will never be played by the band again, that's a pretty safe bet. But maybe something from those other four albums might make the set at some point. Right Side would be very cool to hear.
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If I'm wishlisting a QR set...
1. 9:28 AM - I Am I
2. Speak
3. The Whisper
4. Spore
5. Hellfire
6. Neue Regel
7. Damaged
8. Revolution Calling
9. Operation Mindcrime
10. The Mission
11. Suite Sister Mary
12. A World Without
13. Guardian
14. Eye 9
15. NM 156
16. Screaming in Digital
17. The Right Side of My Mind
18. The Aftermath/Condition Human
Encore
Queen of the Reich
Empire
Take Hold of the Flame
EDIT: I suppose in some ways, this is still a bit "safe"...there's only 6 new songs. But it seems both somewhat realistic and still awesome.
How LONG would this show be?
Not as long as most Dream Theater sets, but certainly a bit longer than most QR sets. Maybe 2hrs?
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Does anyone actually think that the band will ever play any material from Hear in the Now Frontier- OM2? American Soldier and DTC will never be played by the band again, that's a pretty safe bet. But maybe something from those other four albums might make the set at some point. Right Side would be very cool to hear.
Why are you making a distinction between Mindcrime II and American Soldier? What is different in your mind that makes you think they mind consider one and not the other? Just curious.
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@chaossystem: Not a bad set list. I don't think it is realistic either because it has WAY too much new material (not too much for the fans, but too much in terms of being way out of proportion to what they have been playing). But I like it. If they played that, I would be pretty happy. I especially like the inclusion of The Right Side of My Mind and the Mindcrime II songs. Nightrider is an interesting addition. I could be mistaken, but I think they have done that one with Todd.
As far as the last few Tate albums, my opinion differs slightly from yours. I found NOTHING on D2C that I could even listen to a second time after my first listen to that disk. I couldn't find 5 songs I like if I tried. The ones before that are a different story. Every other album (minus the covers album and Q2K) had a lot of good music that was only ruined by Tate's "singing," and a handful of duds. Heck, if Tate had done a halfway decent job with the vocals on American Soldier, I would easily hold that one up there with the classics even in spite of the band being shut out of the writing. Overall, Slater actually did a good job with the music on Mindcrime II and American Soldier. It's a shame Tate leaned too heavily on him and shut the rest of the band out.
@jammindude: I'd take that in a heartbeat. That's a good set right there. And pretty realistic.
I actually like SIX of the songs from DtC, including Hot Spot Junkie, Retail Therapy, and At the Edge.
Maybe your right about almost half of (my idea for) the show being from the last two albums, but bands do that sometimes when they have major personnel changes. It's good to see that guitarist Parker Lundgren has remained so far. Maybe they've finally settled on a stable line-up.
I like maybe FOUR of the Take Cover songs: The Pink Floyd, Police, Peter Gabriel and Black Sabbath. The U2 song COULD have been great, but Tate ruined the end part of it.
I think American Soldier is pretty good overall, and I especially like Sliver and the Killer. I think either of those songs would probably sound pretty good if played by the current version of QR, but AS and DtC were pretty much Tate-driven projects, so that's why I didn't include any of those songs in my idea.
Q2K will always have a special place in my heart because that tour was the only time I was able to go see QR live. They played at least four or five of those songs, and I thought they sounded fine. The version of Bullet the blue Sky that they played at that show was MUCH better than one that's on the Take Cover album.
A lot of people seem to HATE Kelly Gray, but I don't recall hearing anything at that show that sounded like he "ruined" any of the songs.
I thought most of the songs on MindCrime 2 were pretty good, and Tribe was okay, but while I didn't see (or would that be "HEAR?") any major problems with Geoff Tate's voice, musically it was a little bland and watered-down.
Speaking of voices, before I forget, I want to say that the one major complaint that I have about Todd Latorre is that he doesn't seem to be able to sing in the "lower registers" like GT can or could; such as the line "tear it all down / build it up again-another empire!"
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The Q2K songs were definitely better live than in studio. There are a few that I thought were decent on that album, but other than maybe the one you mentioned (Right Side), I wouldn't really care to see any of them live again.
Tribe was the opposite. Tate sounded fine on the album, but was HORRIBLE on that tour, even on the songs that are relatively easy to sing. That was a hit/miss album. A handful of really great songs, and a bunch of dreck. If you could take the four good songs from that album, the good songs from Q2K, and add in Justified and the original version of Hostage, you would actually have a pretty good album. Or better yet, just tack those 4 good songs and justified onto the end of the S/T album (even though that is completely anachronistic). :)
As far as Todd's voice, yeah, he doesn't have the range Tate once had. But then again, who does? He still does a great job and works with the skills he has, which are still considerable.
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I preferred Q2k to Tribe, although that's not saying much. Thought Tribe was Tripe.
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Does anyone actually think that the band will ever play any material from Hear in the Now Frontier- OM2? American Soldier and DTC will never be played by the band again, that's a pretty safe bet. But maybe something from those other four albums might make the set at some point. Right Side would be very cool to hear.
Why are you making a distinction between Mindcrime II and American Soldier? What is different in your mind that makes you think they mind consider one and not the other? Just curious.
Maybe I could have extended it to American Soldier, but no way would they play anything from DTC again (I really hope not). I just stopped at AS because its during that time when I started to really hear there were problems and tensions within the band. I figured there may just be a bad taste with the three remaining members starting at that point. But who knows when things started really getting bad within the band. Regardless, QR has released some great tunes from 1997-2009 that shouldn't be completely forgotten about. Maybe the band can take a survey or something about which obscure songs to play in the future.
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I preferred Q2k to Tribe, although that's not saying much. Thought Tribe was Tripe.
I really like Tribe.
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I don't think they will ever play anything from HITNF to DTC, they aren't exactly fan favorites and the later ones are Tate solo efforts under the QR name. Why would they play something from OM2 when they weren't really involved in the writing and allegedly even in the recording?
Looking at the set lists they seem to think that the fans want to hear mostly the old/classic tunes with a good singer again, and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing it smells of nostalgia act and I don't know if a (former leading) progressive metal act should be content with that. They are able to write good songs again so they should go out there and show the world that Queensryche matters again and that the later Tate years where just a big misunderstanding.
PS: Q2K isn't that bad but Tribe is shit
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I dropped one of my favourite bands very quickly after HITNF (and less so , Promised Land) . The only Tate fronted album I bought from there was OM 2 (wanting it to be good). My sister bought me Dedicated To Cabaret for Christmas..........gee thanks, I needed a new beer coaster. ::)
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DTC isn't even coaster worthy!
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I just pretend that DTC doesn't exist and so far I'm succesful ;D
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You can really see how DTC finally caused the rest of the band to finally crack. Boiling point was reached with that one for sure.
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I dropped one of my favourite bands very quickly after HITNF (and less so , Promised Land) . The only Tate fronted album I bought from there was OM 2 (wanting it to be good). My sister bought me Dedicated To Cabaret for Christmas..........gee thanks, I needed a new beer coaster. ::)
Exactly this.
Except, I don't have a sister.
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I just pretend that DTC doesn't exist and so far I'm succesful ;D
What about the nightmares? lol
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Sweet dreams, you bastard. ;D
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They should do Rhythm of Hope live. Maybe Open, but don't know if Todd can sing that low.
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They should do Rhythm of Hope live.
??? Why?
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You were right about Nightrider. They DID play it on the 2013 tour.
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I believe they started their Wacken show off with Nightrider; which is a very cool opener
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I couldn't remember for sure, but I thought so. It is, by far, my least favorite from the EP, and isn't really even a song I can say I care for. But I wouldn't mind seeing it live once. I bet it would be amazing. I initially never really cared for Blinded much either, until I heard a live version of it from the Warning tour, and that completely changed my opinion of the song.
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I love Nightrider. Blinded would probably be my least fav from the EP.
Prophecy is one of my all time fav Ryche songs too. Not sure if that was suppose to be on the EP or the Warning. Mine's on The Warning.
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From what I understand, it was recorded during the Warning sessions, but they decided to include it on the CD version of the ep. I have older copies of both cds, and the ep has those five songs, and The Warning has the other nine. I don't know how they originally did it on the vinyl versions, but I would guess that The Prophecy wasn't originally included on either one.
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Right, Prophecy wasn't on any of the original releases.
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I was looking for something having to do with Rage for Order on Wikipedia, and according to THEM, it was recorded during the sessions for THAT album.
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I believe that is true, yes.
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FYI, tonight on my radio show (and later available via podcast), I'll be featuring Queensryche, and talking about their impact and career throughout the night.
Starts in 10 minutes, and the link to tune in and chat is: www.wpapu.com for anyone interested.
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I was looking for something having to do with Rage for Order on Wikipedia, and according to THEM, it was recorded during the sessions for THAT album.
it's correct. But, if I' m not mistaken, prophecy was composed in the warning period. Prophecy appears in live in Tokyo home video, recorded at the warning tour.
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If I'm wishlisting a QR set...
1. 9:28 AM - I Am I
2. Speak
3. The Whisper
4. Spore
5. Hellfire
6. Neue Regel
7. Damaged
8. Revolution Calling
9. Operation Mindcrime
10. The Mission
11. Suite Sister Mary
12. A World Without
13. Guardian
14. Eye 9
15. NM 156
16. Screaming in Digital
17. The Right Side of My Mind
18. The Aftermath/Condition Human
Encore
Queen of the Reich
Empire
Take Hold of the Flame
EDIT: I suppose in some ways, this is still a bit "safe"...there's only 6 new songs. But it seems both somewhat realistic and still awesome.
How LONG would this show be?
Not as long as most Dream Theater sets, but certainly a bit longer than most QR sets. Maybe 2hrs?
This may be the longest message I've ever posted, but interest in this thread seems to be waning somewhat, so why no go out BIG?
Jammindude, I asked you how long your concert idea, because I purposely made mine to be about two hours, which MIGHT be a little longer than any show Queensryche has ever played. Also, I wanted to ASK you: WHO is your "new" avatar? It KIND of looks like the old one, but the picture is too small to tell exactly who that is.
Anyway, you said your show isn't as long as a DT concert, and I wasn't trying to do that either. However, even though I know that this would NEVER actually happen, you inspired me to come up with what I know is a completely INSANE FANTASY idea: What if they DID play a "DT-length" show, about 160 minutes, counting the encore, but not counting the intermission?
The first idea includes some unpopular songs from some unpopular albums. In fact I think the only album that got COMPLETELY left out was Frequency Unknown. Otherwise, it's just an expanded version of my original idea:
Set One:
1) Guardian
2) Vindication
3) The Needle Lies
4) At the Edge
5) Deliverance
6) Desert Dance
7) Selfish Lives
8) Nightrider
9) Disconnected
10) The Right Side of My Mind
11) I Will Remember
12) Eye9
13) Hundred Mile Stare
14) Another Rainy Night (Without You)
15) Where Dreams Go to Die
16) Arrow of Time
17) Eyes of a Stranger
~~~~Intermission~~~~
Set Two:
1) Burning Man
2) Don't Look Back
3) Rhythm of Hope
4) The Killer
5) The Hands
6) Hellfire
7) Surgical Strike
8) Spore
9) Spool
10) Warning
11) Toxic Remedy
12) Signs Say Go/
13) Re-Arrange You
14) I Am I
15) Redemption
16) The Aftermath/
17) Condition Human
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Encore:
1) Take Hold of the Flame
2) Walk in the Shadows
3) Empire
Now....the LAST idea is closer to a "best-of," leaving out some of the unpopular songs and replacing them with some that should be more familiar...
Set One:
1) Guardian
2) Vindication
3) Disconnected
4) Revolution Calling
5) Selfish Lives
6) Deliverance
7) Another Rainy Night (Without You)
8) Breaking the Silence
9) Eye9
10) Where Dreams Go to Die
11) Sign of the Times
12) I Will Remember
13) The Right Side of My Mind
14) Spore
15) Arrow of Time
16) Eyes of a Stranger
17) Queen of the Reich
~~~~Intermission~~~~
Set Two:
1) Burning Man
2) Toxic Remedy
3) Don't Look Back
4) The Hands
5) Nightrider
6) Warning
7) Surgical Strike
8) I Am I
9) Spool
10) Silent Lucidity
11) Hellfire
12) Signs Say Go/
13) Re-Arrange You
14) Redemption
15) The Aftermath/
16) Condition Human
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Encore:
1) Take Hold of the Flame
2) Walk in the Shadows
3) Empire
Like I said: This is all just a FANTASY. Hope you enjoyed it.
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For the most part, either of those would be pretty cool. There are a couple of :dunno: moments on each of those, but not many. Mostly pretty solid.
And, for the record, you should leave out Frequency Unknown, as well as the other Geoff Tate solo albums, because it is not a Queensryche album.
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Jammindude, I asked you how long your concert idea, because I purposely made mine to be about two hours, which MIGHT be a little longer than any show Queensryche has ever played.
The tour for Empire was a pretty long set if I remember right. I can't remember everything that they played, but they played several songs to open the show, played the entire OMC album then played some more songs to finish off the set. One of the songs that they played early in the set was Roads to Madness which isn't a very short song by any standards. I'd assume that it easily approached two hours in length.
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Maybe hearing Todd sing some later day Tate lead QR songs might give them a new perspective and make them more enjoyable. Maybe lol.
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Maybe, but I don't think they can be improved that much. For me it's not only Tate's deteriorating voice but the lackluster songs/songwriting that makes the later Queensryche so bad.
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Maybe hearing Todd sing some later day Tate lead QR songs might give them a new perspective and make them more enjoyable. Maybe lol.
Add in some later day stage gear for Todd and I will be there for comedy value :metal otherwise........no. :)
(https://www.rockshowmagazine.com/v2i2/reviews/queens/queens.jpg)
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Aaaghh!!
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Aaaghh!!
:thegoggles:
:theydonothing:
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Yeah, for most of the shows, they played Walk In The Shadows, Roads To Madness, all of Mindcrime, and a good chunk of Empire (Best I Can, The Thin Line, Jet City Woman, Empire, Resistance, Silent Lucidity).
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Maybe hearing Todd sing some later day Tate lead QR songs might give them a new perspective and make them more enjoyable. Maybe lol.
Add in some later day stage gear for Todd and I will be there for comedy value :metal otherwise........no. :)
(https://www.rockshowmagazine.com/v2i2/reviews/queens/queens.jpg)
Everytime I convince myself that this never happend someone posts a damn picture.
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Maybe hearing Todd sing some later day Tate lead QR songs might give them a new perspective and make them more enjoyable. Maybe lol.
Add in some later day stage gear for Todd and I will be there for comedy value :metal otherwise........no. :)
(https://www.rockshowmagazine.com/v2i2/reviews/queens/queens.jpg)
Everytime I convince myself that this never happend someone posts a damn picture.
Didn't Jim Morrison get AREESTED for doing something like THIS???
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Maybe hearing Todd sing some later day Tate lead QR songs might give them a new perspective and make them more enjoyable. Maybe lol.
Add in some later day stage gear for Todd and I will be there for comedy value :metal otherwise........no. :)
(https://www.rockshowmagazine.com/v2i2/reviews/queens/queens.jpg)
Everytime I convince myself that this never happend someone posts a damn picture.
"Everytime I try to leave it behind me, I see something that reminds me..."
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This past Friday, I got my first chance to see QR with Todd singing. What a show! I know the Mindcrime/Empire days are long gone. But, these guys kicked major @ss! Todd was spot on as was the rest of the band. "Queen of the Reich" sounded absolutely amazing. And, no "Silent Lucidity"! :tup
As a side note, the FIFTH and final opening band, Metyl, covered "Pull Me Under" and actually did a pretty cool job. After seeing 3 of the first 4 bands (who were not good), and with their name being Metyl, I wasn't really holding out much hope. Then this 5-piece comes out with a female drummer and bassist and they were very enjoyable. That being said, there should never be 5 opening bands at a club show. It should've been that final opener with a little longer of a set and QR with an additional 30-40 minutes.
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FWIW, Queensryche have two opening bands, the rest were local add ons. Gotta bitch to your local promoter about those.
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FWIW, Queensryche have two opening bands, the rest were local add ons. Gotta bitch to your local promoter about those.
Yeah, I know. I'm used to that by now. But, 5 bands before the headliner is ridiculous. The difference between those 2 openers and the other 3 bands was night and day. Just the way that they carried themselves made that obvious. But, even for DT's club days when I'd see them at the Birch Hill, there weren't that many bands.
QR went on at 10:40PM. By the time they were done and people were leaving, the snowfall had already made the roads pretty sh*tty. At least QR put on a great show. Managed to walk away with a Michael Wilton guitar pick and shredded Scott Rockenfield drumstick, too. :biggrin:
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Yeah, for most of the shows, they played Walk In The Shadows, Roads To Madness, all of Mindcrime, and a good chunk of Empire (Best I Can, The Thin Line, Jet City Woman, Empire, Resistance, Silent Lucidity).
That's almost the exact set they played when I saw them touring with Dream Theater and Fates Warning. It was the year that Nick D'Virgilio was filling in on drums for Fates Warning while they were out on tour. It was also pretty close to the end for Tate with Queensryche and his performance was abysmal that night. The audience were friendly at first, but after a couple of tracks where he sang practically nothing they started to turn on him. The only thing he did well on that particular night -as far as I could see- was he avoided delivering any notes that weren't on pitch. He just basically didn't sing about 90% of the notes in the contralto and up vocal ranges. He'd move the microphone away from his mouth for those notes and you'd hear nothing or maybe some kind of grunt where the word should have been. I guess that's better than coming up blatantly flat on all of them, which is clearly why he chose not to sing them. Mrs. NoseHair was with me that night and she hates this kind of music. She was just there being the good wife because Mr. NoseHair goes to her fucking Jimmy Buffet concerts every year. :facepalm: :rollin
Anyway, about 1/3 of the way through the set she leans in and says (i'm paraphrasing here, it was a few years ago): He's awful cocky for a guy who can't sing any of the high notes in his own songs!
This was from a person who probably couldn't name a single Queensryche song if her life depended on it. The only reason she even knew that he was avoiding high notes was because I told her. She said a couple of the songs sounded "vaguely familiar" to her, but she wasn't familiar with QR and knew nothing of the Geoff Tate...situation, yet within about 20 minutes of performing she knew Tate was a tool. [size=78%] [/size]
[/size]
The two new albums with the new vocalist are the best albums they've released since Empire. So many wasted years. So much wasted potential. I would not be one bit surprised to see this band find their way back to the top of the rock radio charts. If they continue along the trajectory they're on now I think they'll release the Todd La Torre version of "Empire" (under a different title, of course) either with their next album or the one after that.
They should call it "Fallen Empire"
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The two new albums with the new vocalist are the best albums they've released since Empire. So many wasted years. So much wasted potential.
So much this. Makes you wonder what could have been.
And I hope you're right with your predictions.
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Yeah, for most of the shows, they played Walk In The Shadows, Roads To Madness, all of Mindcrime, and a good chunk of Empire (Best I Can, The Thin Line, Jet City Woman, Empire, Resistance, Silent Lucidity).
That's almost the exact set they played when I saw them touring with Dream Theater and Fates Warning. It was the year that Nick D'Virgilio was filling in on drums for Fates Warning while they were out on tour. It was also pretty close to the end for Tate with Queensryche and his performance was abysmal that night. The audience were friendly at first, but after a couple of tracks where he sang practically nothing they started to turn on him. The only thing he did well on that particular night -as far as I could see- was he avoided delivering any notes that weren't on pitch. He just basically didn't sing about 90% of the notes in the contralto and up vocal ranges. He'd move the microphone away from his mouth for those notes and you'd hear nothing or maybe some kind of grunt where the word should have been. I guess that's better than coming up blatantly flat on all of them, which is clearly why he chose not to sing them. Mrs. NoseHair was with me that night and she hates this kind of music. She was just there being the good wife because Mr. NoseHair goes to her fucking Jimmy Buffet concerts every year. :facepalm: :rollin
Anyway, about 1/3 of the way through the set she leans in and says (i'm paraphrasing here, it was a few years ago): He's awful cocky for a guy who can't sing any of the high notes in his own songs!
This was from a person who probably couldn't name a single Queensryche song if her life depended on it. The only reason she even knew that he was avoiding high notes was because I told her. She said a couple of the songs sounded "vaguely familiar" to her, but she wasn't familiar with QR and knew nothing of the Geoff Tate...situation, yet within about 20 minutes of performing she knew Tate was a tool. [size=78%] [/size]
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The two new albums with the new vocalist are the best albums they've released since Empire. So many wasted years. So much wasted potential. I would not be one bit surprised to see this band find their way back to the top of the rock radio charts. If they continue along the trajectory they're on now I think they'll release the Todd La Torre version of "Empire" (under a different title, of course) either with their next album or the one after that.
They should call it "Fallen Empire"
Aw, c'mon! Jimmy buffet isn't THAT bad! He has at least a FEW good songs, and I get the feeling that those "parrot-heads" really know how to have a good TIME!
Were you talking about the Tribe tour? One or two other people (Bosk, at least) have mentioned how bad Tate's sound was on that tour. But judging form The Art of Live, I would have to say that a lot of the problems stem form a crappy sound-system, and some spots where Eddie Jackson and Mike Stone(?) should have also been singing, but they just kind of leave Geoff hanging, so the vocals sound kind of dry, for lack of a better way of saying it.
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Not just "dry," but off key as well. There were some shows where he sounded decent. But there were a lot of shows where he sounded just terrible. Very hit and miss. He was much better on the Take Cover tour. But very inconsistent on the full Tribe tour and the co-headlining tour with DT.
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I really still enjoy the Live Evolution show. Great DVD and Tate sounds decent.
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I agree about Live Evolution. When I first heard it, I noticed a drop in vocals but his vocals were still very solid overall
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Tate doesn't have the range on a lot of the songs, but he still has a lot of passion in his voice and it shows on a lot of the songs.
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I noticed the drop in range as well, and he didn't even bother with any kind of scream at the start of QOTR
Great live album overall!
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I agree that LE is much better-sounding than TAoL, but it seems that a lot of the blame should go to an inferior recording, and like I've already said, an inferior sound system.
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Yes, but as someone who was at the Live Evolution shows and saw them several times on the Tribe tours (and that time was also heavily bootlegged), the issue with Tate's singing is not the equipment. The issue is Tate's singing.
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And I saw QR in the fall of 2005 just before OM2 and Tate sounded great. They we're opening for Priest quite a bit during that time and playing heavier obscure material. The clips of Tate all sounded great too. It's seems after that he went downhill vocally and never turned it around
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I saw them on the Mindcrime 2 tour also and it was a good show. Tate sounded fine, but it's always different live.
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I saw them on the Mindcrime 2 tour also and it was a good show. Tate sounded fine, but it's always different live.
Ditto - don't have any memories of poor vocals from that time. That was the tour where they played 1+ 2 pretty much in their entirety and a little encore of a few classics if I remember right. I went and had a few drinks during the "2" section.
The only other memory I have is how Jackson/Wilton were basically onstage trees .........zero stage presence , but to be fair they were probably forcing themselves to get on stage with Tate at that point.
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I saw them on the Mindcrime 2 tour also and it was a good show. Tate sounded fine, but it's always different live.
Ditto - don't have any memories of poor vocals from that time. That was the tour where they played 1+ 2 pretty much in their entirety and a little encore of a few classics if I remember right. I went and had a few drinks during the "2" section.
The only other memory I have is how Jackson/Wilton were basically onstage trees .........zero stage presence , but to be fair they were probably forcing themselves to get on stage with Tate at that point.
That't the tour. The quality certainly dropped during the Mincrime 2 stuff and a lot of the crowd did the same thing Brent. Then everyone came back for the excellent encores. Jackson and Wilton were pretty much the same. It was the Tate show basically from what I remember. It was still a decent show though.
Mike Stone was trying to be the lead show guy too, but his playing was shit that night and he kept having audio problems with his guitar. Whip just standing back owning his leads though.
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Well, they were probably less into it because nothing they wrote actually ended up on the album, and most of what was recorded wasn't them either. So I can understand them being less than enthusiastic during the live presentation of it.
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Well, yeah.
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I wonder what made MindCrime at the Moore as good as it is. Someone must have put some pressure on them to "be on their best behavior because the cameras will be ROLLING-or ELSE!"
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I thought Mindcrime at the Moore was sub par
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I wouldn't call it sub-par. But while the arrangements on some of the songs do leave something to be desired, you've got to admit that sound-wise it s several cuts above The Art of Live.
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You DO know it was heavily overdubbed, right? Especially the vocals. Tate was very sick and could barely sing, unfortunately. From what I heard, he was decent most of that tour, but got really sick just before.
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The Art Of Live suffers not only from bad sound but from off-key singing. As a bootleg this would be okay but as an official live release? No!
Mindcrime at the Moore is not really completely live, apart from the vocals I read somewhere that Slater overdubbed a lot of the bass playing, but don't know if it's true.
Live Evolution is a great concert, does anyone know if it's tampered with in the studio?
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Live Evolution is a great concert, does anyone know if it's tampered with in the studio?
The DVD looks quite on point.
Live Evolution >>> The Art of Live >>> Mindcrime at the Moore.
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Live Evolution is a great concert, does anyone know if it's tampered with in the studio?
I do remember hearing that there were some fixes, but that they were relatively minor. I mean, ALL live releases have some post-production fixes. I don't recall anything glaring on Live Evolution. In fact, I remember when I bought it, really anticipating hearing London to see how they fixed Geoff's major vocal crack...and being shocked that they left it alone.
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There's a few moments on Live Evolution if I remember where Tate could have done overdubs but were left it, so I don't think there's too much in that one at all.
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What I remember of Live Revolution is that the songs from the early period were very well performed, while the later work left me with 'meh'.
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Yeah they did do a great job with the early songs
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They really do. Roads to Madness was always a fav on that, even though it's only the first half.
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Yeah, even the dialed-back versions of QOTR and The Lady Wore Black were really good. Overall, despite the weird vibe, those shows came off well, for the most part. Even the Q2K songs came off well, IMO. The only ones that I felt were lacking were:
-The Mindcrime songs: They were played well. But they seemed to lack the energy that those songs command, and I was honestly bored. Plus, they had been played to death, even back then.
-London: Even though a small part of the song, Geoff going for and completely cracking and missing the vocal part after the solo destroyed that song. Yeah, it is only one section. But it is the climax of the song, and me missed it SO badly. It's a shame, because it could have been really powerful.
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I liked that version of London for some reason.
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Someone should have stole Kelly Grays wah pedal before the show, but ya, Live Evolution is pretty good.
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Actually, that was what was overdubbed quite a bit, Kelly's shit solos. Watch Jet City Woman for instance.
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Actually, that was what was overdubbed quite a bit, Kelly's shit solos. Watch Jet City Woman for instance.
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/you-know-youre-45a4w8.jpg)
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Wow, that's perfect. :lol
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Has anybody had a chance to listen to the bonus track on the Condition Human limited esition 7" vinyl?
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They are pretty good.
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Still haven't heard them. I'm still thinking they might release a deluxe edition of CH down the road
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Maybe a tour edition with all bonus tracks and full live cd and full live dvd of the same show. Now that's something. :metal
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Maybe a tour edition with all bonus tracks and full live cd and full live dvd of the same show. Now that's something. :metal
That would get my money
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Maybe a tour edition with all bonus tracks and full live cd and full live dvd of the same show. Now that's something. :metal
That would get my money
I hope they release something like this.
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:metal
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Kelly gray was certainly shit. The auto way is the last refuge of the shit guitarist. If you're going to use it at least play the thing, don't just leave it on.
CDG to Kelly gray was one serious downtrade.
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So currently watching Tate... He says they're gonna play a few songs off a new album. (Waits for cheers that don't come) it's part of a trilogy (still no cheers). I said, it's part of a TRILOGY! (3 people cheer) ??? :facepalm:
Edit: if there is a better thread for this, please move. I searched for Tate and this was the best thread I could find lol
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try this one . At least a trilogy of people cheered the trilogy. :lol
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36090.700
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Lol!! Thanks for the thread help.
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New album is still incredible. Ryche that is, not Tate.
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New album is still incredible. Ryche that is, not Tate.
It's fantastic!
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If not for Symphony X, it would easily be my 2015 album of the year. I hate to say it, but if The Astonishing had come out in 2015, I might rank it as #3 behind Symphony X and Queensryche.
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I'm still amazed that they were able to come back to form like that. I had very serious doubts. Now I'm hoping that they will keep it up for a few more years and records.
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I thought both of the post-Tate albums were excellent. So clearly, they can write really good songs with this lineup. It's just a shame the band and/or management either do not seem to have a clue about gaining serious momentum with the fan base, or simply do not care about it. But, hey, if they are happy with how things are going and can continue to put out music of this quality, I can't complain too loudly.
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Listening to the album this morning, the one minor annoyance I have with this era of the band is repeated call-backs to other song lyrics. I mean, the "a revolution calls" lyric in Where Dreams Go To Die was not only appropriate, but pretty brilliant, IMO. And I don't overly mind the "revolution calling" lyric in Guardian. But there are 2-3 other Queensryche lyrical callbacks, and the lyrical variants on "moonlit skies," "blood red skies," etc. on Condition Human that mimics Jon Arch's phrasing on Stained Glass Skies from the most recent Arch/Matheos album. I dunno...since I don't mind similar callbacks from Dream Theater, maybe I am being a bit hypocritical. But Dream Theater has always done that, so it is an established hallmark of their style. With Queensryche, having so many callbacks on only two albums' worth of material just feels...like maybe they are using it as a crutch instead of being able to creatively forge their own path. Does that make any sense, or am I being overly critical?
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If not for Symphony X, it would easily be my 2015 album of the year. I hate to say it, but if The Astonishing had come out in 2015, I might rank it as #3 behind Symphony X and Queensryche.
Same. Symphony X and Queensryche were 1a and 1b for me; QR just a hair behind. To me, Underworld is a perfect metal album. Still playing both constantly.
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But it's "Evolution calling" in Guardian, so there's a big difference. :biggrin:
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But it's "Evolution calling" in Guardian, so there's a big difference. :biggrin:
It is? huh.
But there are 2-3 other Queensryche lyrical callbacks, and the lyrical variants on "moonlit skies," "blood red skies," etc. on Condition Human that mimics Jon Arch's phrasing on Stained Glass Skies from the most recent Arch/Matheos album.
Interesting indeed. I would never have picked it but can totally hear what you're saying.
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I could be completely reaching on that last one. But given the other blatant callbacks, it just stands out as yet another example.
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I think it's a good album and quite a bit better than the previous self titled. Queensryche has been through the mill and they've come out of it quite nicely. The material is exactly what I expect from a Queensryche album and that's what bands should do, give the fans what they expect.
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I think it's a good album and quite a bit better than the previous self titled. Queensryche has been through the mill and they've come out of it quite nicely. The material is exactly what I expect from a Queensryche album and that's what bands should do, give the fans what they expect.
I disagree with the last statement. I don't think bands exist purely for their fans. Bands should make the music they want to. Whether what they make is what the fans want or not doesn't matter. (It may matter in terms of $$$, but not necessarily in terms of being a band)
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If not for Symphony X, it would easily be my 2015 album of the year. I hate to say it, but if The Astonishing had come out in 2015, I might rank it as #3 behind Symphony X and Queensryche.
I find it comforting that all three bands are still great.
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I think it's a good album and quite a bit better than the previous self titled. Queensryche has been through the mill and they've come out of it quite nicely. The material is exactly what I expect from a Queensryche album and that's what bands should do, give the fans what they expect.
I disagree with the last statement. I don't think bands exist purely for their fans. Bands should make the music they want to. Whether what they make is what the fans want or not doesn't matter. (It may matter in terms of $$$, but not necessarily in terms of being a band)
I didn't say "existing purely for fans". I said bands should give the fans what they expect. The same way they construct certain setlists based on feedback they get from the fans. After all, we are paying for the albums and the tickets. Sure, bands are free to do whatever they want. But, if they venture too far from what the fans want (especially long time fans), then it will hurt them and the fans as well. Queensryche is definitely thinking about their fans and not just about themselves. It's very evident in the style of music on this latest release. It sounds like Queensryche.
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I think it's a good album and quite a bit better than the previous self titled. Queensryche has been through the mill and they've come out of it quite nicely. The material is exactly what I expect from a Queensryche album and that's what bands should do, give the fans what they expect.
I disagree with the last statement. I don't think bands exist purely for their fans. Bands should make the music they want to. Whether what they make is what the fans want or not doesn't matter. (It may matter in terms of $$$, but not necessarily in terms of being a band)
I didn't say "existing purely for fans". I said bands should give the fans what they expect. The same way they construct certain setlists based on feedback they get from the fans. After all, we are paying for the albums and the tickets. Sure, bands are free to do whatever they want. But, if they venture too far from what the fans want (especially long time fans), then it will hurt them and the fans as well. Queensryche is definitely thinking about their fans and not just about themselves. It's very evident in the style of music on this latest release. It sounds like Queensryche.
Isn't giving fans what they expect the same thing?
I don't mind newer Queensryche, it's just not what I'm into right now though. I wish Todd had a lower register like Geoff.
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I wish Todd had a lower register like Geoff.
That would be nice (especially since I prefer it to the *high notes*)
New Queensryche is more that they are much better now than they were 5 years ago, but not better than they were 20 years ago. In the end it boils down to I'm happy they have songs I can enjoy again.
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but not better than they were 20 years ago.
IMO yes they are. I also prefer TLT's voice to Tate in his prime.
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Saw them this past Wednesday opening for The Scorpions. They put on a good show. Todd's voice was awesome in the high parts but struggled as it was outdoors and it's pretty dry, windy, even he said so himself as he chugged water before playing QotR.
I wish they played Empire in full though.
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I think it's a good album and quite a bit better than the previous self titled. Queensryche has been through the mill and they've come out of it quite nicely. The material is exactly what I expect from a Queensryche album and that's what bands should do, give the fans what they expect.
I disagree with the last statement. I don't think bands exist purely for their fans. Bands should make the music they want to. Whether what they make is what the fans want or not doesn't matter. (It may matter in terms of $$$, but not necessarily in terms of being a band)
I didn't say "existing purely for fans". I said bands should give the fans what they expect. The same way they construct certain setlists based on feedback they get from the fans. After all, we are paying for the albums and the tickets. Sure, bands are free to do whatever they want. But, if they venture too far from what the fans want (especially long time fans), then it will hurt them and the fans as well. Queensryche is definitely thinking about their fans and not just about themselves. It's very evident in the style of music on this latest release. It sounds like Queensryche.
Isn't giving fans what they expect the same thing?
I don't mind newer Queensryche, it's just not what I'm into right now though. I wish Todd had a lower register like Geoff.
I agree. I've always said bands can do whatever they like but if they radically change their sound and I don't like it, that's their problem, not mine.
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. I've always said bands can do whatever they like but if they radically change their sound and I don't like it, that's their problem, not mine.
Actually, that really is your problem, not theirs. :P
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After now having plenty of time to digest this album and put it into context, I would say that this is easily the 4th strongest the band has ever done, and I would put it behind only Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land (and some days, it might beat some of those). REALLY solid album.
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. I've always said bands can do whatever they like but if they radically change their sound and I don't like it, that's their problem, not mine.
Actually, that really is your problem, not theirs. :P
They don't get my money. I don't lose anything.
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After now having plenty of time to digest this album and put it into context, I would say that this is easily the 4th strongest the band has ever done, and I would put it behind only Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land (and some days, it might beat some of those). REALLY solid album.
Due to Music Listening Time Constraints ;D I really haven't listened to it as much as I should have. But really, the competition to be a Top 5 QR album isn't that tough. Obviously there's Mindcrime. Then any combination of Warning (my fave), Rage, Empire, and PL (which I don't care for), but really what else does Condition Human really have to battle with to gain a #4 or #5 spot? I'm not saying it's not deserved. It's a solid album rooted in "Classic" era QR.
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Well, they definitely have more than 5 incredibly strong albums that are better than the vast majority of what is out on the music market. EP, Warning, Rage, Mindcrime, Empire, Promised Land, Hear in the Now Frontier, and American Soldier (minus points for the vocals) are incredible. Add the self-titled (first Todd era) album into the mix, and that's 9 incredibly strong albums. So, yeah, cracking the top 4 is quite a feat, IMO.
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Ok Fanboy. Time to towel off! Hear In The Now Frontier incredible? American Soldier (which I think is quite focused and solid) incredible? The s/t incredible? None of these albums should ever be confused with being incredible.
Condition Human is light years ahead of the s/t and HITNF, and while AS is actually pretty good, it's not in the same league as CH. But I still maintain that it's not because of the strength of CH, but rather the weakness of the rest of the discog. After PL, or for me Empire, there's not much to hang your hat on.
I'm not ragging on CH, mind you. I just don't think it takes all that much to get to #5 on a QR Top album list.
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The EP is too short (that's because it's an EP) and sounds too dated to be incredible. HITNF has two great songs and a lot of mediocre ones, American Soldier isn't that bad but has that terrible song with Geoff's child singing. So I have to agree with TAC, CH is a top record, but in the QR discography are too many clunkers so that it isn't that hard to achieve.
Queensryche is a band that when they're inspired they cut out top material but sadly that wasn't the case for many years/records.
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Hey, I love the EP. But I don't really count that. And honestly, I have no idea how they pulled American Soldier out of their ass. They actually sound like a band interested in making an album.
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Calling HITNF incredible is like saying Amy Schumer is drop dead gorgeous. :P
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Hear In The Now Frontier incredible? American Soldier (which I think is quite focused and solid) incredible? The s/t incredible?
To each of those: Yes. With the exception of American Soldier, each of those is easily album of the year in the year they were released. Easily. If just about any other band of their era put out an album as strong as any of those, it would probably be in their top 3 all time.
American Soldier ... TheyJasonSlater actually sounds like a band man interested in making an album.
Fixed.
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I'm in the minority but I love HITNF. The new album is very good. Not as high as bosk1 but somewhere in the middle.
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Hear In The Now Frontier incredible? American Soldier (which I think is quite focused and solid) incredible? The s/t incredible?
To each of those: Yes. With the exception of American Soldier, each of those is easily album of the year in the year they were released. Easily. If just about any other band of their era put out an album as strong as any of those, it would probably be in their top 3 all time.
WHAT?? People on internet music forums say the silliest of things! ;D
Anyway, Bosk, I'm glad you posted your original point, as I have been thinking about CH over the last couple of weeks. I've been meaning to play it, but I just haven't had the time. I just cut my front lawn to it, and yes, it's an excellent album deserves to be rated at #5.
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As far as AOTY status, while 1997 was a slow year, I'm taking Bruce Dickinson's Accident Of Birth and even Fates Warning's APSOG over HITNF and I thing APSOG is way overrated. I'd take Divine Wings over it too.
Just looking over your DTF AOTY thread for 2013 (I can't believe I didn't post in it), there were a number of albums I'd put above the s/t, namely Avantasia's TMOT, DT12, and Saxon's Sacrifice (Which actually might be a TOP 3 Saxon album!!).
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As far as AOTY status, while 1997 was a slow year, I'm taking Bruce Dickinson's Accident Of Birth and even Fates Warning's APSOG over HITNF and I thing APSOG is way overrated. I'd take Divine Wings over it too.
Let's not forget:
Radiohead - OK Computer
Flower Kings - Stardust We Are
Devin Townsend - Ocean Machine
DT - Falling into Infinity
Foo Fighters - The Colour and the Shape
All five of those albums obliterate Hear in the Now Frontier to smithereens.
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Well, I'm probably taking HITNF over 4 of those albums ;D...but I get your point.
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I'll say this. One thing I've always loved was the band pic. It totally fit with what they tried to do on that album.
(https://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~bigoleg/queensryche/pictures/hear_in_the_now_frontier_band.jpg)
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It is a great picture.
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HITNF is a good rock album, but I can't give it more praise than that. Just too much filler, but still some great songs on it. I would never consider it to be an album of the year though.
The s/t was awesome but CH took it to the next level for the band. I haven't even remotely gotten tired of it. I would say CH is incredible
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HITNF is good if you can go into it with an open mind.
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HITNF is good if you can go into it with an open mind.
Yeah it can throw you for a loop
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HITNF is good if you can go into it with an open mind.
I went in with the most possible open mind, since my QR fandom was at its all-time high at the time, coming off Promised Land, one of my favorite albums ever, and I did listen to HITNF a lot, almost like I was trying to make myself love it, but aside from a few songs which have stuck with me, I eventually just accepted that it was pretty mediocre overall.
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HITNF is good if you can go into it with an open mind.
I went in with the most possible open mind, since my QR fandom was at its all-time high at the time, coming off Promised Land, one of my favorite albums ever, and I did listen to HITNF a lot, almost like I was trying to make myself love it, but aside from a few songs which have stuck with me, I eventually just accepted that it was pretty mediocre overall.
That's pretty much me too , except I had the same experience with Promised Land :)
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I think it's one of those albums that yeah would have been difficult to take when it was released but something you can come back to now and discover some cool things about it.
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HITNF is good if you can go into it with an open mind.
I went in with the most possible open mind, since my QR fandom was at its all-time high at the time, coming off Promised Land, one of my favorite albums ever, and I did listen to HITNF a lot, almost like I was trying to make myself love it, but aside from a few songs which have stuck with me, I eventually just accepted that it was pretty mediocre overall.
That's pretty much me too , except I had the same experience with Promised Land :)
Same here.
I've always said, I can totally appreciate what they were trying to do with HITNF. I can. I just don't think it's very good. I do like a number of tracks on it though. Listening back on it, you can already hear Tate's voice slipping.
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When HITNF came out I really tried to like it, after all it was a new disc by one of my favorite bands. I gave it all the chances I could, I returned to it for years trying to get it, trying to find something that I missed. But one day I came to realize that it's just a mediocre record, not as bad as others but not really good. Two standout tracks for me, couple of good ones and a lot of meh ones.
And yes, Tate's voice is already deteriorating, but I thought you could hear hints of it as early as Promised Land.
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Whilst I've always loved HITNF I'd still say incredible is a strong word for it :)
I still wonder if CDG had taken himself off to do a solo/side project album with the material he wrote for that album (assuming that Tate's contributions to his songs were purely lyrical and DeGarmo already had melodies worked out for the vocals*) if fans of the band would be more positive about it - HITNF is a good album, it's just maybe not a good Queensryche album.
American Soldier though. I'm amazed anyone can feel anything other than apathy for that album. About the most positive comment I can remember about that album when it was released was "they're going in the right direction" which really is damning it with faint praise.
(As a side note, it took me ages to figure out where I'd heard it before, but the main riff at the start of Man Down is very reminiscent of the main riff to The Almighty's The Unreal Thing).
* I wish we knew exactly what Tate's contributions were on the early QR albums. I always thought the "Tate didn't write any music, only lyrics" part of the court declarations when they were wrangling over the QR name was a bit suspect - if he was just fitting lyrics to existing melodies it's one thing, but if he was given a blank slate in the form of a backing track and he had to work out the melodies himself then he did write music.
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HITNF is a decent album, but I find the production too dry, and some of the songs are probably the worst ever recorded by the original line-up (Cuckoo's Nest, Get a Life, All I Want, Anytime/Anywhere). If those four had been dropped or replaced with Chasing Blue Sky and the sound was more along the lines of Promised Land, I think I'd love the record. However, this is the perspective of someone who's listened to QR for only 2 years - if I'd been a fan in the 90s, I'd imagine the album would've been a massive disappointment coming off the heels of PL, or at least a big shocker.
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Nah, Cuckoo's Nest is awesome, Get A Life is fine, and All I Want has some really cool, albeit subtle, things going on that are easy to miss. I will agree with you that Anytime/Anywhere isn't so great. But given that it and Hit the Black are the only real clunkers on the album, it's still a really solid effort from start to finish.
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Bosk, while the list of decent songs on it is short, Hit The Black and Anytime/Anywhere definitely make it. I like those tunes.
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Yes, but you have incredibly questionable taste, so that doesn't count.
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I will agree with you that Anytime/Anywhere isn't so great. But given that it and Hit the Black are the only real clunkers on the album, it's still a really solid effort from start to finish.
I'm actually a big fan of "Hit the Black." I consider it one of the stronger songs on the album, and I've always enjoyed hearing that one live. Now I'm in the mood to go listen to it!
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I completely wrote it off until I saw them perform it at the Live Evolution show, and that helped me appreciate it a bit more.
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I'm actually a big fan of "Hit the Black." I consider it one of the stronger songs on the album,
Thank you...
Yes, but you have incredibly questionable taste, so that doesn't count.
...and no thank you. ;D
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A funny thing happened last night.
So last night we were driving to my son's basketball game. We came to a red light and I rolled down my window.
Then my wife says "what did you say?"
I said "nothing"
"You said something"
"I don't think so"
"Did you say 'kill her'"?
"You heard that?"
"What's the matter with you?"
:facepalm:
Then I explained that there's a passage on a classic album where an exchange takes place between characters that begins with a window put down.
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OMG....YOU DO THAT TOO?????
I swear I can't listen to a power window without that line popping into my head.
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I recite the entire passage in my head every time! :lol
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I can't listen to anyone saying "sweet dreams" without adding (mostly in my mind) "you bastard".
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I can't listen to anyone saying "sweet dreams" without adding (mostly in my mind) "you bastard".
haha...........that's the one that gets me too :rollin
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Yeah, I have several of those too. :lol To this day, when I get home from work and don't see/hear anyone in the house, my wife doesn't get why I say, "Anybody home? ...Mary?"
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I can't listen to anyone saying "sweet dreams" without adding (mostly in my mind) "you bastard".
lol
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'Kill Mary?' 'and get the Priest as well!'
dudes that's exactly what I hear in my head as well.
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“Fuck her, that’s all you have to do.”
“Fuck Mary?”
“She’s a bitch..........and get the priest as well.”
:neverusethis:
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Todd shared this on FB, now I want that cover album out lol
https://www.facebook.com/labelguyjoe/posts/10206919991255634
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Listening to OM again today for the first time in a long time and as usual, I'm floored at what an amazing piece of work it is. As a whole AND as individual parts. I remember when I first heard it, and for a while, I didn't care for Suite Sister Mary. Now, I dig it a whole lot more. So much emotion in his vocals in that song alone. Wow.
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Listening to OM again today for the first time in a long time and as usual, I'm floored at what an amazing piece of work it is. As a whole AND as individual parts. I remember when I first heard it, and for a while, I didn't care for Suite Sister Mary. Now, I dig it a whole lot more. So much emotion in his vocals in that song alone. Wow.
Yes. YES. YES.
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Suite Sister Mary is awesome!
O:M is in my all time Top 3 Vocal performances. Tate is perfect.
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The best album ever IMO!!
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I tend to end up listening to Mindcrime prior to every Presidential election.
Revolution calls.
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Suite Sister Mary is awesome!
O:M is in my all time Top 3 Vocal performances. Tate is perfect.
All the above is true.
Suite Sister Mary is a masterpiece. I'd love to know what the choir sings, I can't make the words out.
And Tate was god in those days
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While I don't know exactly what the choir is singing, I do know that it is all in Latin.
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While I don't know exactly what the choir is singing, I do know that it is all in Latin.
I thought it would be, but there's a section I always thought was saying "don't give in "
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I too think that they are mostly latin phrases from some church liturgy, but then I think I hear the choir singing "virgin mary".
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Apparently, it would be taken from Verdi's Requiem, the Dies Irae :
https://www.apollowebworks.com/russell/mindcrimefaq.html (https://www.apollowebworks.com/russell/mindcrimefaq.html)
Here are the lyrics to it, taken from the site above https://www.apollowebworks.com/russell/mindcrime.html (https://www.apollowebworks.com/russell/mindcrime.html) , the lyrics can also be found on the Requiem as well of course :
Dies irae, dies illa,
Solvet saeclum in favilla,
Teste David cum Sibylla.
Quantus tremor est futurus,
Quando judex est venturus,
Cuncta stricte discussurus!
B.Lee
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Teste David cum Sibylla.
Ooh, that sounds dirty!
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Teste David cum Sibylla.
Ooh, that sounds dirty!
:biggrin:
Here is the English translation :
Day of wrath and doom impending,
David's word with Sibyl's blending!
Heaven and earth in ashes ending!
Oh, what fear man's bosom rendeth,
When from heaven the Judge descendeth,
On whose sentence all dependeth!
See, not so dirty, ain't it? :rollin :rollin
B.Lee
PS : Yeepee!!! My Renaissance post!
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Review from last night's show below. For those who don't know, they just kicked off a tour with Armored Saint and Midnight Eternal opening. Last night was the second show (first was in Seattle the night before).
The set:
Guardian
Operation: Mindcrime
Best I Can
Damaged
The Killing Words
The Mission
Silent Lucidity
Empire
Eye 9
Queen of the Reich
Jet City Woman
Take Hold of the Flame
Encore:
Screaming in Digital
Hellfire
Eyes of a Stranger
3 songs from the new record out of 15. But still, not too bad. The issue was, they were delayed getting to the venue (I heard that Saint's bus had broken down), so that led to a late start. Both opening bands cut about 10 minutes and QR left Arrow of Time out of the set.
I was on the fence about whether to go because I knew we would miss most of the openers due to some other commitments. I was hoping we would catch a couple of songs from Saint at the end of their set, but we ended up walking in right after they had just finished.
We had a good spot for QR. Again, the set was the same as Seattle except for cutting Arrow. I thought they were solid and sounded good overall. This was my first time seeing them with Todd, and I was not disappointed. A few minor hiccups, which I will comment on below. But overall, pretty solid. Some notes:
-The set: Overall, no major complaints. I would like the new material represented a bit more. And they should have featured more from Rage and made more out of the fact that that album is 30 years old. They even had 30th anniversary shirts at the merch booth, but I think most fans had no idea. If they commented on it, I would guess they would have sold a lot more shirts. But anyhow, I know it is difficult to figure out what to play when your catalog is that big. Todd even commented on it at one point. But still, that is a problem a lot of older bands have to deal with, and it really isn't that hard to figure out. Related to that...
-Condition Human songs: Notwithstanding what I just said, I do sympathize somewhat with the difficulty of adding a lot of new stuff to the set. You can look at the Seattle set list to see how they mixed them in throughout the show, which I think was smart. Guardian got a decent reaction, but hard to say if that was because of the song or because it was the beginning of the set. When they introduced Eye9, it got decent applause. But the crowd reaction during the song was lukewarm. Honestly, I didn't think it translated that well live and sounded like a bit of a mess. Hellfire, despite being a beast, also seemed to get only lukewarm reaction. Overall, it seemed like maybe half the crowd knew the new stuff. And that's fine. But it is tricky to include much more with that kind of crowd reaction and not have it suck the life out of the show. I hate to say it, but I think 4 songs would have been about the most they could have done without it taking away from the show for many people. And that's sad, because they should be playing 5-6 new songs.
-Minor hiccup on The Killing Words: This was just one of those things. Scott came in late on the second chorus, and it threw everybody off. Half the band was following him, and the other half of the band was on time. They keep on chugging and got back together by the end of the chorus. Rock and roll!
-Parker: Two things here. First off, at least on our side of the house, he was WAY too low in the mix. We could rarely hear him, even on his solos. Second, speaking of solos, he gave a lot more of them back to Mike. Not sure why. But there were songs I was expecting him to solo on that Mike took, and I was wanting Parker to do them. Oh well. He still played well from what I could hear, and really has a nice stage presence. Looked like he was having fun up there.
-Todd: Overall, sounded great. He backed off of a few parts, which is to be expected on such a challenging set. But he tackled some really difficult passages with enthusiasm and pretty much nailed it all. There was a girl dancing and singing next to me for about the first half of the show, and at one point in between songs, she was going on about how good Todd sounded. I turned to her and said, "yeah, he is killing it up there," and she said, "Oh my gosh, YES, he is TOTALLY killing it. This makes me not miss Geoff Tate at all!" I also think he is turning into a pretty good front man in general. Todd did interact a lot with the crowd, but it was mostly during the songs. He kept the talk in between to a minimum. But he said at one point that they were doing that on purpose because there was a strict curfew, and they wanted to play as much music as they could (and the problem had been exacerbated by the late arrival), so I understand.
Again, good show overall. My nitpicks about what they SHOULD be doing still stand. But I still came away a happy customer.
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great review!
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Queensryche should be up there with Priest and Maiden. They used to be
Hopefully they can get back there. I want to see them playing massive stadiums.
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Bumping up a thread, since it looks like the last conversations were about the original lineup of Queensryche (my favorite band, the other eras...not so much).
HITNF was bad timing. There is a lot of filler, but the good songs on it were lined up for a long record campaign, and I think it would have succeeded at radio (remember, the first single was released in February 1997). Sign of the Times, You, The Voice Inside, and spOOL were the four singles, the latter two never getting officially released to radio, because the label went belly-up.
Had EMI not folded, I think things may have gone a lot differently with Queensryche. "Sign of the Times" was a hit on major rock radio, at least on Long Island, where I'm from. "You" followed up and was big out of the gate, and then was washed off the radio as soon as EMI took a dump. The band toured anyway, self-financing the tour, which was a big gamble in those days, and it didn't pan out. DeGarmo played a couple of shows he was contractually supposed to do with the band in Dec. 1997, but in a nutshell, after the U.S. tour ended in Aug. 1997, he was gone.
HITNF had promise. The four singles were strong -- Sign of the Times, You, The Voice Inside, spOOL. You has some silly lyrics, but musically, solid tune. Others on that record were really good too -- personal highlights of the rest for me are (in no particular order)Hero, Reach, and Hit the Black. Some people really like the ballad "Some People Fly." I think it's more of a filler track, but better than some of the others on the record for sure.
What HITNF suffered from was lack of label support, and too much filler. At best, the 14-track record is seven or eight decent tracks deep. The rest (with apologies to bosk1, who loves the DeGarmo-sung "All I Want") are really filler. And while that was sorta the point of the record (the idea was to just jam on demos, not be so structured and polished) -- to put out the tunes they worked on, but didn't over-work on, in retrospect, not a really good mix for Queensryche. Queensryche has always been a really polished band. Just not an approach that works for them.
But I don't believe anyone should dismiss HITNF outright. There are some really good tunes on the record. But it's the sound of a band morphing its sound a bit too far. Tribe, which united the original band for a handful of songs (Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine, The Art of Life, and the post-release released cut Justified) showed a band getting back to its more layered sound, and some better riffs. But that's a story for another day...
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Yeah, timing was not right. Reach was actually the first song I heard. It got played on local radio, despite not being designated as a "single." I think it could have gotten the album a bit more traction if released as a single. But as far as both the state of music and the label going under, it was just not a good time for them.
But that isn't really the "end of the story" either. A lot of bands have put out an album or a string of albums that went nowhere, only to come back strong. Sometimes, it is only a one-album hiccup. Other times, it takes the band a lot longer to find their way back. If Tribe had been a stronger return to form (and it almost was, as the DeGarmo songs you pointed out show), or even if Mindcrime II had been what it should have been (overlooking for a moment the fact that, really, doing a sequel was probably ill advised anyway), they could very well have had a resurgence.
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The loss of DeGarmo was a huge loss for them as well.
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Agreed, bosk1. They have had opportunities. Then certain decisions derailed them.
I look at it this way:
The big break between Empire and PL was ill-advised, even if needed by the band.
PL was not the follow up to Empire that would have put them back on the map, even if the majority (not all, obviously) think of it as a quintessential QR record.
HITNF was a couple of years too late.
Once DeGarmo left, they picked the wrong guitarist and songwriter to replace him, and did a record that didn't have the dynamics QR was known for.
Tribe had a ton of potential ruined by the singer's ego, and DeGarmo not wanting to deal with that again after trying it (as the above songs mentioned showed the promise).
Tate taking over and doing Mindcrime II got them back in the spotlight, but then they didn't successfully capitalize on that. Doing American Soldier was a great idea, poorly executed, and alienated the band, who didn't write anything on it. And then it snowballed.
Even now, with La Torre replacing Tate, they failed to capitalize on momentum, preferring to play the old hits instead of the self-titled debut with La Torre, and now, only at the end of the record cycle, truly supporting Condition Human (which has its moments, but is lacking in other areas).
It's like ever since they got huge in 1990-1992, they've continually shot themselves in the foot. I just don't get it. The original lineup was an amazing creative unit, and still is. That chemistry is still there. But Tate's ego, and the band's nonchalance really, IMO, alienated DeGarmo.
As for the current band, all I can say is, I'm of the opinion DeGarmo just doesn't see enough in the current band to really want to collaborate with them. Tate isn't the singer he once was, but he is a big idea guy, even now. That, combined with Wilton's heavier riffs, DeGarmo's melodies, chord progressions, and attention to detail, really gave them something special.
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I think I enjoy Tribe the most out of the post HITNF Tate albums.
When OM:2 came out, I was really digging it, but then it fell off my radar for the most part. There are a handful of very strong songs, but they are brought down by major filler. Murderer, Hostage, Re Arrange You are excellent songs.
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I think I enjoy Tribe the most out of the post HITNF Tate albums.
When OM:2 came out, I was really digging it, but then it fell off my radar for the most part. There are a handful of very strong songs, but they are brought down by major filler. Murderer, Hostage, Re Arrange You are excellent songs.
They are. I prefer the demo version of Hostage meant for Tribe, because of the Wilton solo and angrier vibe shown by Tate. But agree that Murderer and Re-Arrange You are two of the highlights (my personal favs) on Mindcrime II. Killer Wilton riff in Murderer that Slater arranged.
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I thought after hearing OM:2 that things were going to be turning around for the band. I liked the direction, especially hearing actual guitar solos again. I had seen them live in October of 2005 and the show was fantastic, Tate sounded great and I thought the band was listening to what the fans wanted.
American Soldier, while an ok record, definitely didn't wow me at all. Tate sounded rough and the slow ending, I think three ballads to close the disc, really brought down the album. Dead Man Words and 30,000 feet are the standouts and thats the sound that AS should have had throughout.
DTC- I'll pass on saying anything about that one lol
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Yep, agreed on American Soldier. I really still enjoy A Dead Man's Words, At 30,000 Ft., The Killer, and Man Down! Those four tracks are pretty damn good.
I have this post-DeGarmo playlist I run often (in no particular order):
When the Rain Comes...
Howl
Liquid Sky
Breakdown
Murderer
Re-Arrange You
The Killer
Man Down!
A Dead Man's Words
At 30,000 Ft.
D2C has a couple of tunes I dig...mostly just one, At the Edge. Big Noise is OK too, but that's about it for me.
The new Queensryche with La Torre has some good new songs, but they don't play a lot of them live, and they lack something to my ear as well. Favs from the new QR lineup include Redemption, Don't Look Back, Fallout, Hellfire, Eye9. The songs from the new lineup pay homage to a bit of classic QR, but have a different vibe.
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I agree with At the Edge, I guess thats the only song that I can say I didn't mind on DTC. But not enough for me to revisit the album ever again.
New QR is solid, I like CH more that the first with Todd. I would say the title track, bulletproof and toxic remedy are my favorites.
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The first half of that record was pretty solid. Actually, other than a miss or two, the first 2/3 was really solid. The back 1/3 or so was a bit iffy, but it wasn't something that jumped out as being huge before I had a chance to really digest the album. The overall pretty solid quality of the first 2/3 distracted me, and I was in the camp that were saying that Queensryche was "back again!" But as I digested the album, including the story itself, it became apparent after not too long that the latter 1/3 wasn't just weak, but it was pretty bad, to the point of tarnishing the "Mindcrime legacy." Then of course, we also eventually learned that the band wasn't involved in any of the writing, etc. It's really a shame. That album did show some promise.
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If I recall correctly, the original writing was:
Murderer - Wilton had the repeating riff
The Hands - Riff is Wilton's
Hostage (which is a Tribe song changed into the version on MC II) is Wilton/Jackson/Rockenfield musically, but the MC II version features courtroom drama to connect it to the story, and a harmonized solo by Mike Stone instead of the initial, more aggressive one by Wilton
And that's it. The rest is Slater/Stone musically, and Tate lyrically.
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Gotta love Blabbermouth's click-bait title for this article. In this case, I think it's safe to say "never".
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-doesnt-rule-out-return-to-queensryche-never-say-never/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-doesnt-rule-out-return-to-queensryche-never-say-never/)
I don't know why they'd ever want to work with this guy again.
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Meanwhile, they've released a music video for 'Bulletproof'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2AfrMsdB7I
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I genuinely can't listen to anything after HITNF, and that's not a very good album.
I did actually like O:M2, in a it's not as awful as I expected sort of way. I really didn't want them to do it because there was no way it was ever going to stand up to the legacy. Nothing Tateryche did stands up to the legacy.
I can listen to some of O:M2, so that's an improvement.
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The Right Side of My Mind is still my favorite post DeGarmo song....even though it's from the worst album.
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The Right Side of My Mind is still my favorite post DeGarmo song....even though it's from the worst album.
I'm just going to assume that the memory of D2C was so painful that you forgot it existed. :lol
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The Right Side of My Mind is still my favorite post DeGarmo song....even though it's from the worst album.
I'm just going to assume that the memory of D2C was so painful that you forgot it existed. :lol
I've never heard a note from D2C. I was mildly curious at the time that it came out, but the comments in here scared me away. You guys saved me a little bit of money that I would have wasted on that one. If it's worse than Q2K, then it must be an absolute pile of shit.
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I refused to buy it new, both because I didn't want to waste money on something that was by all accounts bad, and because I refused to put a dime into Geoff's and Susan's pockets by that time. I waited until I found a copy in the used bin, and only bought it then out of being a completist for my once-favorite band. I only listened to it once, and have no desire to revisit it.
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I ended up chucking DTC in the garbage bin after two listens.
As far as Tate rejoining QR, I really can't see that ever happening unless it involved Degarmo rejoining. And I can't see that ever happening either.
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Just got back on the bandwagon. If Geoff Tate were to ever rejoin, I would be completely done with Queensryche forever.
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Just got back on the bandwagon. If Geoff Tate were to ever rejoin, I would be completely done with Queensryche forever.
Have you seen them live with Todd?
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Yes. Twice now. INCREDIBLE shows. Far better than the last Tate show I saw. And a million times better than the many clips I've seen of Tate's solo shows. (shudder)
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Yes. Twice now. INCREDIBLE shows. Far better than the last Tate show I saw. And a million times better than the many clips I've seen of Tate's solo shows. (shudder)
THIS!!! I've only seen them once with Todd. But, I'll take him over current-day Tater any day.
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I know a couple of things about Queensryche. I'll say this -- Todd is a good singer. His voice is very suited to sing the old stuff -- EP-Rage for Order. After that though, particularly as you get to Empire, you can start to see where he's not as strong. His voice isn't as rich and powerful as Tate's on the "warmer" Queensryche material. One listen to jet city, lucidity,another rainy night, or even damaged (which is a personal fav), you can tell. But for what Queensryche is doing now, Todd is solid.
He has really improved on the last couple of tours. He's learned to become a professional singer, as opposed to a guy who goes out and wails, and if the voice isn't there, he's in trouble. Now, he doesn't go for all the notes -- he picks specific ones -- and he cuts notes off a little to save his voice.
As for Tate -- the guy has lost his mind, and is realizing now he's pretty much done without Queensryche. But you can't deny the man was one of the three principal architects of Queensryche's sound (along with DeGarmo and Wilton). The man had a legendary voice from 1981-2005 (anyone who heard him on the summer 2005 tour with Judas Priest can't deny how good he sounded, even if they had to drop things a half step). Tate's operatic voice, progressive rock leanings, and dramatic delivery meshed with DeGarmo's keen sense of melody, chord progressions, and harmonies, along with Wilton's push for heavy riffs, defined Queensryche through the band's original tenure, and the brief handful of songs on Tribe. Queensryche would not be Queensryche without those three (and honestly, all five, the rhythm section of Jackson and Rockenfield is underrated). And trying to minimize Tate's impact on their sound (which admittedly, I did a bit during the lawsuit of 2012) is foolhardy.
If Tate ever did rejoin (and I never say never, but I don't think it would be until 2018-2020, honestly) he'd have to be publicly apologetic to his bandmates for attacking them and trying to steal money from underneath them. And Tate, while he laments not being able to "work things out" with QR, has not yet even acknowledged his wrongdoing. So there's a long way to go. But without DeGarmo being a part of it (and I think it is very telling he's stayed far away from La Torre-fronted QR -- I'm pretty sure he knows TLT isn't the same kind of talent Tate was and is keeping his distance until all options for full reunion are extinguished), I'm not really interested in Tate returning.
For those that love the TLT-fronted version of QR, it's a good time. They have two pretty good albums, and hopefully, this next one will be great. But for me personally, I have some legit hangups (both musically and personal) that have me not as impressed with them as I originally was. The original Queensryche was something special. This lineup (like the DeGarmo-less, Tate-fronted lineups from 1999-2001 and 2003-2012) is just a different animal, and not as good.
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When you have a six album run of the EP- Promised Land, it is nearly impossible to ever top that. That's just a magical run of amazing music.
I'm interested to hear what the third album brings as I found CH was a big improvement over the self titled. I'll be honest though, as much as I like the two TLT albums, I am still hoping for something a bit better. I'd like to see them let lose a bit more and get out of the mid tempo sound for the most part. Also would like to see more of the progressive side that they showed on the Condition Human title track.
As far as Geoff goes, I think I can speak for a lot of people on this forum that we are checked out in regards to anything he has been releasing the last few years.
I'll never say that I'm completely done with him because people deserve a chance to change. But it's going to take some work on his end. I think he needs to disappear for awhile. He needs to honestly realize his mistakes, make a sincere apology to QR and the fans. Plus take some better care of his vocals and maybe change up his look a bit. If he did all that, I think a lot of people would be open to giving him another shot and maybe some kind of reunion would be possible.
But if not, his vocals on those first six albums are and always will be legendary
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I love how quickly Tate changed his mind about a QR reunion :lol He must be running out of cash:
April 25, 2016 - Geoff Tate Rules Out Return To Queensryche (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-rules-out-return-to-queensryche/)
December 18, 2016 - Geoff Tate Doesn't Rule Out Return To Queensryche: 'Never Say Never' (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-doesnt-rule-out-return-to-queensryche-never-say-never/)
Seriously though, in the live videos I've seen from this year he sounds a little better than he did during his Fakeryche tours and it feels as though he gives a damn again, though his voice is still a shadow of its former self.
I'm interested to hear what the third album brings as I found CH was a big improvement over the self titled. I'll be honest though, as much as I like the two TLT albums, I am still hoping for something a bit better. I'd like to see them let lose a bit more and get out of the mid tempo sound for the most part. Also would like to see more of the progressive side that they showed on the Condition Human title track.
As far as Geoff goes, I think I can speak for a lot of people on this forum that we are checked out in regards to anything he has been releasing the last few years.
I'll never say that I'm completely done with him because people deserve a chance to change. But it's going to take some work on his end. I think he needs to disappear for awhile. He needs to honestly realize his mistakes, make a sincere apology to QR and the fans. Plus take some better care of his vocals and maybe change up his look a bit. If he did all that, I think a lot of people would be open to giving him another shot and maybe some kind of reunion would be possible.
But if not, his vocals on those first six albums are and always will be legendary
Agreed 100%.
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Re: Condition human (the song)
When i first heard it, I loved it. However, if you listen, it is pretty much, no, it IS the most derivative song the new lineup has ever done. It directly lifts stuff from Suite Sister Mary and Roads to Madness. It's not a bad tune, but it could have, and should have been so much more. Michael worked on that song since 2012...and that is what it ended up? A shorter "epic" that borrows heavily from two classics? Bah...
I like it, but seriously, after I realized that, my appreciation for the song dropped like a two ton heavy thing.
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Re: Condition human (the song)
When i first heard it, I loved it. However, if you listen, it is pretty much, no, it IS the most derivative song the new lineup has ever done. It directly lifts stuff from Suite Sister Mary and Roads to Madness. It's not a bad tune, but it could have, and should have been so much more. Michael worked on that song since 2012...and that is what it ended up? A shorter "epic" that borrows heavily from two classics? Bah...
I like it, but seriously, after I realized that, my appreciation for the song dropped like a two ton heavy thing.
It has always reminded me a bit of Promised Land (the song). I don't get a Roads To Madness feel, but the Suite Sister Mary influence is clear. I agree that for its length it gets a bit lost.
Still, I'd like to see them continue to write along some of those lines.
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Yes. Fully agree that Promised Land, the song is also present a bit in it. I really dont know what direction I want them to go in. Id like them to find their own voice, as opposed to "writing like Queensryche." Theyve painted themselves into a corner. On one hand, they are cognizant now of being more like their classic sound. On the other hand, only Wilton remains from the songwriting trio of that classic periods, and arguably, he was the lesser of those three. So shouldnt this "new" lineup, which features the writing of Eddie Jackson and Todd LaTorre, branch out and be themselves? I think so. And they have to a degree. But its like they are trapped inside their own past expectations.
Eddie is a sappy power ballad loving dude. Todd loves them too. But Todd also loves extreme metal. But hes said continually that some aspects of what they love as musicians wont be a part of QR's sound because its "not right" for Queensryche. While i respect that, i also think it handcuffs them, and at this stage of their careers, i just dont think they will ever risk try to truly write to all of their potential, because they are too concerned with trying to sound like what wilton, degarmo and tate had them sounding like in the band's prime.
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I really dont know what direction I want them to go in. Id like them to find their own voice, as opposed to "writing like Queensryche." Theyve painted themselves into a corner.
I agree. They need to forget that they are called Queensryche and go out and write what comes naturally to them.
I have always considered the s/t a glorified "welcome back" EP, and I do think CH built positively upon it. Hopefully they have a vision for the next album that looks forward instead of backwards.
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As far a the writing is concerned, I am really happy with how Condition Human turned out. For me, it is a great mix of "classic sound" and newer, more "modern" sound. And, yeah, there are some things that don't work for one reason or another. But really, to me, I feel I can easily say that there is 1/3 or more of the album that is stellar, 1/3 or more that is good, and 1/3 or less that doesn't work as well. And if I turned my mental clock back to the era when this band originated, albums from '80s bands often had about that mix (if not 1/4 great, 1/4 good, and 1/2 "filler"). Really, it is only a small handful of bands that can more often than not write an album that is stellar from start to finish (or that has only 1 or 2 duds total out of an entire album). If the next album turned out to be, in essence, "Condition Human II," I would be happy with it.
Now in terms of the band marketing, promoting, and supporting the new material, and giving concert-going fans value for their ticket money, that's a different story and an area where I continue to feel the band is inexcusably falling far short of their potential.
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Overall, I was happy with CH. To me, it validated and built upon the s/t. To me, they checked a box for me. I was skeptical, so that was good. But I think there is still another level to go.
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Yeah, I liked the S/T a lot, but just felt like even the best songs felt a bit underdeveloped. Overall, the album left me feeling like they put together a great effort, but needed time to gel together as a songwriting unit. That all happened with CH, as far as I'm concerned. Now don't get me wrong--I'm not saying that should rest on their Laurels and that there isn't room to take things up a notch or two. They can and should continue to grow. Just expressing that, when it comes to CH, I am a happy customer.
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I still think that with good promoting, the songs "bulletproof" and "toxic remedy" had potential for some mainstream success.
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I think Condition Human is a good album. I think the point I'm making is more that the band is sort of in this difficult place of trying to copy a sound written mostly by people no longer in the band (Wilton obviously is, and you can hear his distinct riffs and solo style), and also trying to move forward.
I thought it was telling when TLT and Parker talked about how certain things they like stylistically aren't "right" for Queensryche (paraphrasing from memory here). Specifically, I remember asking Todd why he doesn't sing for Queensryche like he sings the song "Discordia" that he wrote with one of the Drover brothers as a side project. And he said it was too heavy for Queensryche. Really? And you have Ed Jackson, who was never a major song contributor before, now taking over as a major one. The band has done a good balancing act with Condition Human, but it's just a weird thing.
Agreed with bosk1 about the record being 1/3 really good, 1/3 good, and 1/3 Ok. That's a pretty good record overall. I just think the situation Queensryche has put itself in is a strange one, given that 2/3 of the guys who created that sonic template (and arguably the most important 2) are gone, and yet they are still trying to emulate that. I have to think that stifles growth in some manner (as with my example of Discordia above).
I may not be as high on this lineup as I once was, but there's no denying Condition Human was a good record.
I still think that with good promoting, the songs "bulletproof" and "toxic remedy" had potential for some mainstream success.
I gotta admit, I really don't like the power ballad Bulletproof. I know it has a lot of fans, and Todd La Torre loves him some power ballad, but I wasn't as high. Toxic Remedy is a good tune. But I much prefer Hellfire and Eye9. To me, those are the best on the record easily.
I think I said this when the album came out, but it still stands. Condition Human to me is where Queensryche would have gone after Operation: Mindcrime had they wanted a bit more mainstream appeal, but still wanted to focus on metal, as opposed to hard rock. CH has more of a early Alder-era FW vibe to me injected into it.
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And from the S/T, "In This Light" also had some potential for mainstream radio. Actually the song comes across as the band going out of their way to write a song for radio. It reminded me of Another Rainy Night. It just stood out to me for that reason. Good song though
And I like the FW Alder comparison Brian
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I think Condition Human is a good album. I think the point I'm making is more that the band is sort of in this difficult place of trying to copy a sound written mostly by people no longer in the band (Wilton obviously is, and you can hear his distinct riffs and solo style), and also trying to move forward.
This may sound odd, but taking that difficult position into accounts actually enhances my enjoyment of CH. I think, it large part, it is just because balancing the perceived need to maintain some vestiges of a band's "classic sound" and also sound current is a VERY difficult thing to do for bands that have been around for so long, even those that still somehow manage to have preserved their classic-era songwriting core. Take Tesla for example. Notwithstanding losing Tommy, their songwriting core has managed to stay intact. And at the time it was released, Into The Now knocked it out of the park in terms of hitting that balance. And yet, everything they have released since then has, IMO, fallen short. We could cite many other examples of bands that have tried and failed to hit that balance. And we could debate the reasons for that. But my point is simply that, for my tastes, Queensryche hit that balance incredibly well on CH, and the fact that they did is a plus as far as I'm concerned. I don't really mind that they may somewhat be "constrained" by not wanting to include too much that is "outside the box" for the "classic Queensryche sound." We all have our own thoughts as to how much is too much. But I like the balance they have found.
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I would like to imagine Geoff Tate from 1984 singing all the songs from the S/T and CH and the amazing sounds that would ensue.
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I hear ya bosk. And I can appreciate it. But as you know, I am coming from it from a slightly more...engaged perspective. I just listened to the record from front to back for the first time in probably eight months. It hasn't aged well for me at all. I actually prefer the vocals on the self-titled, and the drums.
For me, most of my Queensryche enjoyment will unfortunately be living in the past, with a mix of songs from after the original lineup being peppered in here and there. They just aren't the same sounding band, and that connection is a bit lacking because of it and various factors. But really glad folks like you and JJ are diggin' it all.
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For me, most of my Queensryche enjoyment will unfortunately be living in the past,
I think that speaks for everyone.
I'm not sure what influence Wilton had on the writing, but is he really strong enough to carry a band? Jackson and Rockenfield really seem like bystanders, and always have.
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My heart will always belong to the old material, but that being said the material they are making now is head and shoulders above stuff like Dedicated to chaos, so even though its might not be as mind blowing as those original albums, I still am enjoying what we have.
And on top of that, being able to see them live with renewed passion and enthusiasm means a lot to me, since I was too young to see them back in the hey day.
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I hear ya bosk. And I can appreciate it. But as you know, I am coming from it from a slightly more...engaged perspective.
Yeah, I know. I'm kind of glad I'm not that...engaged. As of now, it hasn't really impacted my enjoyment of the music. That could easily change at some point down the road. But for now, I'm detached enough to where it hasn't put me off to the level that it has impacted you.
I'm not sure what influence Wilton had on the writing, but is he really strong enough to carry a band? Jackson and Rockenfield really seem like bystanders, and always have.
I disagree. They may not offer a lot in terms of main writing of a song from its inception, other than the odd song here or there. But neither of them plays primarily on a compositional instrument either, so that is to be expected. I believe they more or less contribute to the writing to the same extent any rhythm section in a rock band does. But I think that, being one of the more talented rhythm sections in classic rock, they have more tools in their arsenal than most, which makes their contributions more pronounced, to me. Take a song like Della Brown, for example. The rhythm section makes that song. And yet, Eddie doesn't have "writing" credit on it at all. But Scott does. And while not nearly as prominent, I would maintain that the rhythm parts in Empire make that song as well, and neither of them have writing credit. I think the two of them have always brought a lot to the table in the writing department, even though most of their "writing" may just be writing the rhythm parts of songs and not writing main melodies or riffs.
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Yes, they are great on Della Brown, and Yes, Rockenfield has always been awesome. But I am thinking that post Promised Land, they seem to be along for the ride. Especially after DeGarmo left. I know Tate gets a lot of blame for the direction of the band in the post DeGarmo era, but to me, the rest of the band looked spineless and ultimately let it happen. Now kudos for them to eventually pushing Tate out, and they deserve credit for that.
But really how is TLT era Queensryche any different from Bobby Blotzer's Ratt? >:(
I'm gonna give myself a timeout. :lol
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Okay, but you are blurring a lot of things together. If we are just talking about writing, I would agree that in the post-PL era while Tate was still in the band, their contributions declined. And once we got to Mindcrime II, we saw a 3-album run where they were basically shut out of the writing process. We can argue about how much to blame them or Tate, but that isn't really the point. I'll just give you that, for whatever reason, their contributions declined. But your earlier point was different. You had said that you believed they had pretty much always just been along for the ride. And that clearly wasn't the case up through PL and in the LaTorre era.
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Did I say always? I might have. I remember watching Eddie Jackson from the 3rd row during the Mindcrime tour. He was so unimpressive. But I've always loved Rockenfield.
I suppose I get as frustrated as the next guy post Empire (or for others post PL), but to me, in the post Degarmo Era, the band (Rock/Jackson/Wilton) are as much to blame as Tate. And I DO hold that against them.
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Regarding Wilton, Jackson, and Rockenfield as songwriters:
Michael Wilton is a complete songwriter. He was from the EP-Empire. He composes the riffs, puts together arrangements, and at times, writes lyrics (Deliverance, One and Only, there are others -- he came up with the chorus for Speak). He and Chris were pretty much equals in QR through Mindcrime. DeGarmo took a bigger role following Empire, but in general, Michael has always been a good songwriter.
Wilton's strength is in his riffs, however. DeGarmo was always a better chord progression writer, melody writer, came up with cool harmonies, and of course, a better lyric writer. And while Michael arranges songs, Chris was a master arranger. The duo complimented each other very, very well. So on songs MIchael wrote, you may notice the arrangements are a bit simpler (Resistance) in comparison to Chris. Arrow of Time is another one that clearly stands out as a Michael arrangement to my ear.
In the past, Eddie contributed a song or two. The issue with Eddie, however, was that he was never needed to be a songwriter. In fact, and this is coming from various people in the QR camp over the years, Eddie writes a lot of power ballad type things, or, at times, punkish-type tunes. The latter never really fits with QR, and the former, well, take a listen to In This Light and Bulletproof. Eye9 is also a ballad, albeit a moody one, which appeals to me.
But in general, during 1981-2009, Eddie never really contributed more than a song an album, if that.
Scott is a songwriter, and has been working at it steadily since the 1980s. But like Eddie, he never really contributed during the original lineup run, except for a couple of instrumental things, until Promised Land and HITNF. He took a bigger role after that, and had a big role in the self-titled record. I believe he wrote the lyrics to Vindication, but I may be mistaken.
But no, he was never one of Queensryche's main songwriters.
Eddie and Scott mostly just laid down the rhythm section, and that was that, for the original band. Their roles expanded over time, and now, obviously with only them and Michael remaining from the original band, they have stepped up their songwriting contributions.
The Queensryche of NOW is very much a more equal songwriting unit, with all five guys contributing. But Ed has really stepped up the most to compliment Wilton and La Torre.
In regard to the Tateryche guest writers years of Mindcrime II, American Solider and Dedicated to Chaos, that's not quite true in regard to them being shut out. All had credits on Mindcrime II (albeit it limited), and Ed and Scott had a lot of credits on D2C. But the majority of those records were composed by outside guys, yes.
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Did I say always? I might have. I remember watching Eddie Jackson from the 3rd row during the Mindcrime tour. He was so unimpressive. But I've always loved Rockenfield.
Eddie as a player and a singer, to me, has always been severely underrated. Same with Scott Rockenfield. But they played the role as the rhythm section in the original band, with the "glory" going to the guitarists and singer. Just the way the ball bounced for them. Eddie has a GREAT voice, and frankly, if it weren't for some pitch problems every now and then, he's the best singer in current Queensryche. Seriously. I heard him at soundcheck once in 2003 singing lead, and it blew me away how powerful he was.
I suppose I get as frustrated as the next guy post Empire (or for others post PL), but to me, in the post Degarmo Era, the band (Rock/Jackson/Wilton) are as much to blame as Tate. And I DO hold that against them.
Yes they were. I tended to look over that over the past several years, but always admitted it when someone brought it up. The fact of the matter was, Ed, Scott, and Mike didn't know the extent of the corruption. They were happy they were getting paid. Michael was more upset because his songs weren't used by Tate. But they were all getting paid, so they went along with it. It was only when Tate was caught redhanded by Rockenfield for trying to sell the rights to Mindcrime out from under the nose of the band, and when someone friendly with Wilton revealed to him what he had heard Tate's plan was following the 25th anniversary of Mindcrime, that the band took action.
So yes, they went along with it, and are, along with Tate, very much party to the destruction of the old band. But the worst perpetrator is clearly Tate. But they all had fault for sure. Rock, Jax and Whip didn';t grow a set and do something about it until they HAD to.
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In regard to the Tateryche guest writers years of Mindcrime II, American Solider and Dedicated to Chaos, that's not quite true in regard to them being shut out. All had credits on Mindcrime II (albeit it limited), and Ed and Scott had a lot of credits on D2C. But the majority of those records were composed by outside guys, yes.
Yeah, I don't think we are saying different things; just different wording, I guess. And I know basically what you know (except that you know more), so...
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I think overall I am content with the S/T and CH more so because I just wanted Queensryche to rock again. I just couldn't wrap my head around that the band name Queensryche that released Operation Mindcrime also released Dedicated to Chaos.
I know personalities had changed within the band and years had passed between releases, but it just didn't seem right that this was the music the band was putting out.
So I guess I can say I am just content with settling with the TLT material because it definitely rocks and is much better then the alternative; which would have been something along of "The Key" and "Resurrection".
But the TLT material is definitely in the rear view mirror when comparing to 80's/early 90's QR
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Without a doubt, the "Tateryche" years of 2006-2012 were WRONG. All wrong. The outside writer thing is unreal to me. I remember my wife and I going down to Jason Slater's studio in the Bay Area in early 2006 and listening to Mindcrime II on the console where it was recorded and mixed. I think it had been done and sent to the label the week before. Slater left the room for the hour, and we had our own private listening party. I was jazzed that some of it really rocked, but wasn't sure about it.
Then Slater proceeded to tell us how he and Stone wrote 90 percent of it, and they only used "Hostage" and a couple of Wilton riffs in The Hands and Murderer to "placate" the band. And how he (Slater) re-did Scott's drums. It was...shocking. Seriously, I remember the sick feeling I had and didn't know what to say. The record wasn't bad, but it wasn't great, and it just jarred me to the core that Queensryche just got hijacked by the singer and the producer.
Fast-forward five, six years, and things were just horrendous. It was a terrible time to be a fan. Terrible.
So yes, I too take legitimate band-written material like this current post-Tate era over "Tateryche" any day of the week. I just don't connect with any of it like I connected with the original band. There's a continuity and feeling that isn't the same, because of the changes in writers.
Even though "Justified" (the last song the original band did together, which was meant for Tribe but came out a few years later on a greatest hits package) isn't a classic, that vibe and feeling is very much present in the song, and just distinctly sounds like Queensryche to me.
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I think you summarized things when you had 2 terrible's and 1 horrendous in the same paragraph.
Justified was a very cool tune
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Brian, are you saying that Scott does NOT play on OM:II?? It's been ages since I heard it so I don't remember the drumming.
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Brian, are you saying that Scott does NOT play on OM:II?? It's been ages since I heard it so I don't remember the drumming.
What I was told by Slater (so take a big lump of salt), was that Scott did originally, and then Slater replaced his tracks afterward. I forget exactly how he phrased it. Something like literally taking every hit Scott had, and then programming those hits one by one? I have no way of knowing, as I'm not a musician and don't know what to listen to. What I do know is, the drums don't sound like Scott, and if you compare Scott's drumming on Mindcrime at the Moore (the live record documenting the MC II tour), with the studio record, they are very different.
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WOW..WTF??
Why do that?
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Yeah, that is basically what I was referring to. That, and the revelation by the session guy Tate brought in to record guitars (was it on Mindcrime II and American Soldier? I forget the specifics.) that, basically, session guys recorded almost everything.
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Parker Lundgrens name is absent from the current discussion.
He seems like a decent kid with some talent, but I never felt he was a good fit with the rest of the guys. I think it again shows the lackadaisical attitudes of Wilton/SRock/EdBass that they didn't try very hard to get a better fit for a 2nd guitarist for the band.
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Well, he was brought in during the time Tate controlled the band (which I know you know). So if you want to blame them for him initially coming into the band as part of the Tate Family Circus, I can see that. But the thing with Parker is, he really worked hard to develop his chops, really make a concerted effort to learn to play DeGarmo's parts pretty faithfully, and bonded with the rest of the band. By the time Tate was kicked out and the rest of the guys took control back, Parker had more than proven himself and was really part of the band. I don't think it made sense to dump him at that point.
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but does Parker add anything to the band?
its great he can play the classics the right way, but other than youth and exuberance, is he really bringing anything else to the table? he has a few credits to his name on the last two albums, but I don't see him as anything more than the "other guitarist" in the band.
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re: Parker
Parker has grown up a lot. Yeah, the nepotism was high in 2009 when Tate brought him in. We were all pissed that Tate hired his then son-in-law. But he worked his ass off and continues to, and so I give him a lot of respect for that as a guitar player. He's a better fit than Gray or Stone, and has really been able to mesh with Wilton a lot better. Although Wilton has now taken over all of Chris' signature solo guitar solos, so Parker only does Chris' trade-off pieces.
But the thing is, Parker knows it all -- cold. In spring 2013, I was fortunate enough to be backstage pre-show, and was sitting with him. I walked in the room, sat down, and he had his headphones on, and was playing, I asked him what he was doing, and it was his routine -- he plays the entire set before the show to warm up. And he does that every day, regardless of whether they are playing or not.
So he adds dedication and commitment to playing.
As for creativity, he does write, but not really in the style that Queensryche is. He loved punk music, and grew up playing that. He's also into that rockabilly thing as well. I've heard some stuff, he can write for sure. And he writes some kick ass solos too. For example, most people assume that the song "Don't Look Back" from the self-titled 2013 LP was Michael's, because Michael wrote the music for that song. Nope. Parker wrote that entire harmonized solo. Same thing in Hellfire -- Whip's song, and he does that first smaller solo. But the main solo in the song was written by Parker. Chris sometimes did the same thing for Michael. Damaged was written by Chris, but Michael wrote and plays the solo.
So Parker has a lot of talent. But he's not really ever going to be more than "the other guy' like T-ski said, because he doesn't get a chance to shine in Queensryche. I asked Parker in 2013 twice if Michael was going to hand over some solos, and you could tell it was a bone of contention to a degree. Parker wants to play some of those Chris solos, but Michael wasn't giving them up. And you know what, after all those years of giving them up to Kelly Gray and Mike Stone, I don't blame Wilton one bit. I did ask Wilton about it, and he basically said those were his and Chris' signature spots, and he wants to make sure it is done by him. Again, I respect that completely. But it doesn't do Parker any favors.
Parker wasn't in the original plans for Rising W.E.S.T. WEST originally stood for Whip Eddie Scott Todd. They had Parker on as a guest. But when it went over so well, I remember Ed saying if Parker is in the band, what do they call it, and then I mentioned the whole Before the Storm lyric "rising from the west," and Ed goes, "yeah, there you go, that's it." That was before they moved on from Tate as Queensryche. But when they moved on, and took over the Queensryche name, they felt good about Parker, and he stayed on.
He did, prior to all that, somewhere in the 2011 timeframe, have an opportunity to try out for In This Moment, Maria Brinks' band, which I think would have been a better fit for him. This is, again, coming from Jason Slater, so take it with the usual grain of salt caveat. According to Slater, ITM required the guitar player to show original material -- they wanted someone who could write. So Parker, according to Slater, asked Slater if he could use some of the songs they had worked on (together, I am assuming). I'm not sure whether Parker pursued it fully or not, and never really thought to ask while I had access to him (and it would have had to be in private, of course). But to be honest, if he got the gig and turned it down to stay with QR, that was a bad career move for him. But again, no idea what came of it. maybe he didn't get it.
So no, I don't believe, as currently constructed, Parker has any chance of making a name for himself with Queensryche. But it's a gig, and heavy touring gigs that provide a steady paycheck (so he doesn't have to go back to working at Guitar Center), so I can't really blame him for sticking around. But no, image wise, and everything else, he's not really a "fit,' in my opinion. But he's earned his stripes for sure.
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That's great insight, Brian. Thanks for posting.
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A lot of this I did know and some things I didn't know, but it's always interesting to hear from someone who has some kind of inside information.
Regarding the TLT fronted QR: I really like those two records, the self-titled could have been a little bit better if the songs were more fleshed out imo, but with CH they really delivered.
Are they as good as the classics? No, but they are records I like and like to spin regularly when thinking about Queensryche. Can't say that for the Tate-ryche stuff. And it's good that they don't end the QR-career with D2C.
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On a somewhat-tangential note, it's good to see some renewed interest and discussion about this band. :tup
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On a somewhat-tangential note, it's good to see some renewed interest and discussion about this band. :tup
Well, some of us do need a home. :biggrin:
The more I learn about some of the behind the scenes stuff, the less I find myself listening to the band. I'll go on a binge and listen to them for a week straight, and then shelve them for another year or two.
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Yeah, I hear you on the behind the scenes stuff. It can be hard to take.
It must be strange coming from a forum dedicated to Queensryche discussion, and coming here where there is only one thread (well, two if you count the Geoff Tate thread), and not a very active one at that.
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Yeah, I hear you on the behind the scenes stuff. It can be hard to take.
It must be strange coming from a forum dedicated to Queensryche discussion, and coming here where there is only one thread (well, two if you count the Geoff Tate thread), and not a very active one at that.
It's refreshing, to be honest. And a lot wider perspective from people not continually fixated on Queensryche.
p.s. watch out for that Grappler guy. I hear he's trouble. :rollin
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For some reason, I tend to listen to active bands, or bands with current music I actually like, more that bands who are not releasing new material anymore or new stuff I don't care about or like. For example, a new great album by a favorite will always get me to revisit their old great material. And in the case of 'Ryche, I really only love the stuff from 1984-1994, so they simply do not get into my rotation very much, although I often get that "I don't know why I don't listen to this stuff more often" feeling when I do listen.
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The Right Side of My Mind is still my favorite post DeGarmo song....even though it's from the worst album.
I'm just going to assume that the memory of D2C was so painful that you forgot it existed. :lol
If Queensryche were Star Wars, Q2K would be the prequels........but D2C is more like the Holiday Special.
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Count me in as one of those that tuned out and turned off from the band amidst all the nasty turmoil, to the point where I didn't even give the TLT albums a chance until very recently. When I finally did, I was surprised to find that I really enjoy these last 2 albums. Very solid indeed, especially CH.
While TLT isn't quite as good as Tate, overall they successfully captured some of the feel and flavor of early Queensryche, which is a good thing IMO. Looking forward to see what's in store for the next album. Not that I'm expecting a Warning -> Rage For Order type of breakthrough, but if they can make a similar leap in quality/progression that they made between Q13 and CH, I'll be more than happy.
ps. To AnybodyListening (Samsara), it's good to see you back on DTF!
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Re Parker - I wasn't impressed at the time with the nepotism aspect but he's proved himself. He wrote Where Dreams Go To Die, which is as Queensryche as anything the band has done since PL.
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ps. To AnybodyListening (Samsara), it's good to see you back on DTF!
Thanks. Good to see you too. :)
Re Parker - I wasn't impressed at the time with the nepotism aspect but he's proved himself. He wrote Where Dreams Go To Die, which is as Queensryche as anything the band has done since PL.
He did, but according to Parker, Wilton and La Torre, what Parker wrote, and what the song became are totally different. They didn't explain how, but the song was put through the paces to become a "Queensryche" song. I think Wilton altered the arrangement and Todd changed some lyrics, but don't quote me on that. But the song was modified extensively from demo to final product. I'm assuming it's sort of how the Mindcrime II song, "One Foot in Hell" was modified from this bluesy tune, to a more hard rock/metal song. That tune was written by Stone, and modified heavily by Slater.
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He did, but according to Parker, Wilton and La Torre, what Parker wrote, and what the song became are totally different. They didn't explain how, but the song was put through the paces to become a "Queensryche" song. I think Wilton altered the arrangement and Todd changed some lyrics, but don't quote me on that. But the song was modified extensively from demo to final product. I'm assuming it's sort of how the Mindcrime II song, "One Foot in Hell" was modified from this bluesy tune, to a more hard rock/metal song. That tune was written by Stone, and modified heavily by Slater.
Remember the s/t demos that were released on youtube? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNP_jR0McuU
That first snippet that kicks in at 0:17 (I'll take you there, where castles built will fall) is the original demo of Where Dreams Go to Die, which was more of a speed/power metal song with higher vocals. Compared to the album version, it's night and day.
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He did, but according to Parker, Wilton and La Torre, what Parker wrote, and what the song became are totally different. They didn't explain how, but the song was put through the paces to become a "Queensryche" song. I think Wilton altered the arrangement and Todd changed some lyrics, but don't quote me on that. But the song was modified extensively from demo to final product. I'm assuming it's sort of how the Mindcrime II song, "One Foot in Hell" was modified from this bluesy tune, to a more hard rock/metal song. That tune was written by Stone, and modified heavily by Slater.
Remember the s/t demos that were released on youtube? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNP_jR0McuU
That first snippet that kicks in at 0:17 (I'll take you there, where castles built will fall) is the original demo of Where Dreams Go to Die, which was more of a speed/power metal song with higher vocals. Compared to the album version, it's night and day.
I think that those demos might have had better production value than the album itself. That's been my only real issue with that album. Performance wise, it's great!
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So, one of the presents Santa brought me was a copy of Storming Detroit. Even though I was hoping for a bit better quality, once my ears got used to it, it is excellent. What an awesome era for Queensryche. It will forever be my favorite.
Just got me thinking...I first heard Queen Of The Reich when I was 13 or 14. At that age and time, I had pretty much established my "musical base" and Queensryche would be one of the first "new" bands that I would discover. I had the EP even before Warning was released. I thought their take on Metal was so fresh and original. It had a grandiosity about it that was so interesting. It was metal, but it was more than that.
Warning (and the EP) is one of those handful of albums that really transports me back in time.
And is there a better album for air drumming than Warning? Scott Rockenfield was awesome. I loved his style.
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I've been tempted to buy that Storming Detroit cd for awhile, but I knew it wasn't an official band release and figured it would just be bootleg quality. The setlist is outstanding though.
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So, one of the presents Santa brought me was a copy of Storming Detroit. Even though I was hoping for a bit better quality, once my ears got used to it, it is excellent.
I've never heard of this. I looked it up to get a general idea of what you were talking about. Is it a bootleg? The setlist (from memory) looks a lot like the Tokyo show that was released with the remaster of the EP. Is the Detroit show a better performance?
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I've been tempted to buy that Storming Detroit cd for awhile, but I knew it wasn't an official band release and figured it would just be bootleg quality. The setlist is outstanding though.
JJ I think it's a must buy. I had honestly never even heard of it until Brian posted it in the Album thread a few weeks ago. I think I had it on boot years ago, but it is pretty well cleaned up.
Yes, the setlist is awesome. I'm loving it.
I also got Rainbow's Boston 1981 and the quality on that is spectacular.
I've never heard of this. I looked it up to get a general idea of what you were talking about. Is it a bootleg? The setlist (from memory) looks a lot like the Tokyo show that was released with the remaster of the EP. Is the Detroit show a better performance?
I'm not sure, I don't have that EP Remaster. I'll have to look that up for myself. Amazon lists Storming Detroit.
Is it a bootleg, no. It sounds like a pre FM recording. Not nearly as good as the Rainbow, but definitely worth the purchase.
Looking at the EP Remaster, Storming Detroit has NM 156 and Roads To Madness. Not sure if the EP Remaster is a complete show. I probably wouldn't get it if it wasn't.
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I've been tempted to buy that Storming Detroit cd for awhile, but I knew it wasn't an official band release and figured it would just be bootleg quality. The setlist is outstanding though.
JJ I think it's a must buy. I had honestly never even heard of it until Brian posted it in the Album thread a few weeks ago. I think I had it on boot years ago, but it is pretty well cleaned up.
Yes, the setlist is awesome. I'm loving it.
I also got Rainbow's Boston 1981 and the quality on that is spectacular.
I've never heard of this. I looked it up to get a general idea of what you were talking about. Is it a bootleg? The setlist (from memory) looks a lot like the Tokyo show that was released with the remaster of the EP. Is the Detroit show a better performance?
I'm not sure, I don't have that EP Remaster. I'll have to look that up for myself. Amazon lists Storming Detroit.
Is it a bootleg, no. It sounds like a pre FM recording. Not nearly as good as the Rainbow, but definitely worth the purchase.
Looking at the EP Remaster, Storming Detroit has NM 156 and Roads To Madness. Not sure if the EP Remaster is a complete show. I probably wouldn't get it if it wasn't.
I'm pretty sure that it's a complete show. If you remember the video for Take Hold of the Flame, I'm pretty sure that the footage was taken from that Tokyo show. It was released on video at the time ect. ect...
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Tim.............you must go to amazon and get that EP remaster. The live songs on that remaster are awesome!
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I see that except it's missing my two favorite tunes from Warning. If it can be confirmed the show is complete, I'll order it today!
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Don't worry about it, just order it.
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Has that concert ever been released on DVD?
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I looked it up, it looks like it was only released on VHS.
Too bad, thats a fantastic show.
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According to this YouTube page this is the correct running order:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0dahY_WvwW-dgGhf7dbm9Zs
Time to send out the call for Brian!
(https://i.imgur.com/AaAmB.png)
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I wonder why its different on the EP cd remaster.
Oh well, it still rocks.
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Geoff fucking Tate!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3EtzEA7C0s
:metal :hefdaddy
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Never seen this before either!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPJW9O0_w3E
Singing the anthem at a Seahawks game.
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Storming Detroit is a radio broadcast of a complete show. It was cleaned up a bit more than the bootleg that has been circulating for the last 20 years. Personally, I love the show. Great setlist and energy. :tup
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Yes, it is awesome.
Brian, can you confirm if the EP Remaster containing the Tokyo 84 show is complete? Any info on the track order?
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Ep remaster has the entirety of the audio from Live in Tokyo. But Live in Tokyo was not a complete show itself, anyway. They cut a few songs when they produced the video to begin with.
Live in Tokyo was made from a combination of the band's headline shows on Aug. 4, and Aug. 5 in Tokyo. The full setlist from the 4th is here (I don't have a fully confirmed setlist from the 5th, but it is likely identical, since they used both shows to make Live in Tokyo):
https://anybodylistening.net/8-4-84.html
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OK, thank you. That answers my question. I'm not sure about getting it. Amazon sells the mp3 album for only $5.99. Might be worth it.
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Geoff fucking Tate!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3EtzEA7C0s
:metal :hefdaddy
:metal
For some reason people seem to get his name backwards these days and call him Fucking Geoff Tate :lol
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OK, thank you. That answers my question. I'm not sure about getting it. Amazon sells the mp3 album for only $5.99. Might be worth it.
I modified my post above with the link to the full setlist. But again, Live in Tokyo was never a full show anyway. It was tracks taken from the two shows I mentioned in my previous post. :) For 5.99, it is worth it, if you don't have those tracks. Although to be honest, I still prefer Storming Detroit, as it is a whole show, and is fully live, flubs and all.
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Thanks Brian!
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Has that concert ever been released on DVD?
I used to love that video. Unfortunately an angry ex girlfriend cut the tape along with a few others after we split up...
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Has that concert ever been released on DVD?
I used to love that video. Unfortunately an angry ex girlfriend cut the tape along with a few others after we split up...
Women!
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I've been tempted to buy that Storming Detroit cd for awhile, but I knew it wasn't an official band release and figured it would just be bootleg quality. The setlist is outstanding though.
JJ I think it's a must buy. I had honestly never even heard of it until Brian posted it in the Album thread a few weeks ago. I think I had it on boot years ago, but it is pretty well cleaned up.
Yes, the setlist is awesome. I'm loving it.
I also got Rainbow's Boston 1981 and the quality on that is spectacular.
...
Amazon lists Storming Detroit.
Is it a bootleg, no. It sounds like a pre FM recording. Not nearly as good as the Rainbow, but definitely worth the purchase.
Looking at the EP Remaster, Storming Detroit has NM 156 and Roads To Madness. Not sure if the EP Remaster is a complete show. I probably wouldn't get it if it wasn't.
Storming Detroit has been available for years as a free FM recording. I would advise against buying it just because someone decided to press it on CD again and sell it under a shady label.
As for the bonus tracks on the EP, they are the same tracks as the old VHS / Betamax / LaserDisc release; not the full concert.
I'm pretty sure that it's a complete show. If you remember the video for Take Hold of the Flame, I'm pretty sure that the footage was taken from that Tokyo show. It was released on video at the time ect. ect...
As stated above. The show is not complete :)
According to this YouTube page this is the correct running order:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0dahY_WvwW-dgGhf7dbm9Zs
Time to send out the call for Brian!
Correct. The two Tokyo '84 shows featured this setlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0cRGbtVrpoF7aySY_T1oS4Q
Live in Tokyo was never a full show anyway. It was tracks taken from the two shows I mentioned in my previous post. :)
Are you sure? There's never been any mention of any cameras being present at the 1st Tokyo '84 show. Only at the 2nd one (it even says so on the VHS casing).
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I still have great memories of them blowing me away opening for Kiss.
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I still have great memories of them blowing me away opening for Kiss.
If that tour came to Providence, I might have been able to see it. But my parents wouldn't let me go out to Worcester at the time.
When Ozzy rescheduled the April '86 Providence show (that originally had Metallica opening >:() QR opened, but I sold my ticket, as I was really going to see Metallica, and wasn't into Ultimate Sin Ozzy or RFO Ryche.
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Crap. A year later (?) I got to saw Metallica with Ozzy.
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Crap. A year later (?) I got to saw Metallica with Ozzy.
Kiss/QR was Dec '84. Ozzy/Metallica was April '86.
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God I'm old. :lol
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(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder286/62688286.jpg)
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Anyone who saw Ryche in the mid 80s is old. :rollin
Are you sure? There's never been any mention of any cameras being present at the 1st Tokyo '84 show. Only at the 2nd one (it even says so on the VHS casing).
There were cameras rolling the first night. They may or may not have been used, but some footage was recorded (perhaps it was a trial run of a few songs). One of the crew on the band's tour back then told me that, when I asked about Live in Tokyo, and The Warning tracks some years ago. So cameras were present at both gigs, but perhaps they only used footage from the second night, as indicated on the packaging.
Storming Detroit has been available for years as a free FM recording. I would advise against buying it just because someone decided to press it on CD again and sell it under a shady label.
Yes, it has been under various names for years being traded by people. The new version cleans up the hiss a bit more, however, and is made available to everyone for purchase on legitimate sites. It's likely (although admittedly, I'm not certain), the radio show was purchased (that happens), and then put out by the label as "Storming Detroit." It's certainly not up-to-par for QR -- it has an image of the Rage era band in it, for example -- it's also a way for people not huge in the bootleg scene to get good quality FM recordings.
So I say -- buy away! It's a great show.
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Yeah it's a great show, but the problem with buying the copies is that you're supporting a decade-old, shady practice, of selling unofficial material.
If the exact same thing has been floating around on the internet for years, why would you suddenly buy it, well knowing that you're putting money into the pockets of shady people?
What if I pressed some copies too? Should people suddenly be buying it from me instead?
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Yeah it's a great show, but the problem with buying the copies is that you're supporting a decade-old, shady practice, of selling unofficial material.
If the exact same thing has been floating around on the internet for years, why would you suddenly buy it, well knowing that you're putting money into the pockets of shady people?
What if I pressed some copies too? Should people suddenly be buying it from me instead?
Dude, it's available for sale on Amazon.com. Queensryche's people for sure know about it (their attorney is pretty damn good and on top of things). If they wanted to stop it, they would. So if fans who aren't in the bootleg circuit want to pick up a copy of a great show, and it is legally available for sale on a reputable retailer's website (one of hundreds), why shouldn't they? :lol
For all we know, the band might get royalties from it, which is the reason it is still up there for worldwide sale on CD, digital, and vinyl.
Stop taking things so personal. You may be a big collector of bootlegs, Setzer, but you aren't the first person to be a big collector of live Queensryche gigs. Hundreds of us were collecting their shows for decades before you. :lol I admire your passion, but again I say, if the band wanted it stopped, their reps would have done so. Or, they might just see it as further promotion and don't really care.
p.s. getting technical, just remember, all of us who traded bootlegs of theirs over the years committed an illegal act, including yourself, and your current uploading of all those shows to YouTube. So instead of getting uptight about it, I'd recommend just letting people check out what they like, and leave the legalities to QR's reps.
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Yeah it's a great show, but the problem with buying the copies is that you're supporting a decade-old, shady practice, of selling unofficial material.
If the exact same thing has been floating around on the internet for years, why would you suddenly buy it, well knowing that you're putting money into the pockets of shady people?
What if I pressed some copies too? Should people suddenly be buying it from me instead?
Dude, it's available for sale on Amazon.com. Queensryche's people for sure know about it (their attorney is pretty damn good and on top of things). If they wanted to stop it, they would. So if fans who aren't in the bootleg circuit want to pick up a copy of a great show, and it is legally available for sale on a reputable retailer's website (one of hundreds), why shouldn't they? :lol
For all we know, the band might get royalties from it, which is the reason it is still up there for worldwide sale on CD, digital, and vinyl.
Stop taking things so personal. You may be a big collector of bootlegs, Setzer, but you aren't the first person to be a big collector of live Queensryche gigs. Hundreds of us were collecting their shows for decades before you. :lol I admire your passion, but again I say, if the band wanted it stopped, their reps would have done so. Or, they might just see it as further promotion and don't really care.
p.s. getting technical, just remember, all of us who traded bootlegs of theirs over the years committed an illegal act, including yourself, and your current uploading of all those shows to YouTube. So instead of getting uptight about it, I'd recommend just letting people check out what they like, and leave the legalities to QR's reps.
It's for sale in a lot of places. Hell, I even found 2 copies in a store in Copenhagen last year. So they must have a good network.
And of course you've been collecting for decades before me. Some of you started collecting their shows before I was even born! :D
Me uploading the recordings to YouTube isn't illegal though? Most of it is stuff that people recorded (granted, at venues that didn't allow it). However, the only people making any money whatsoever on it, is the band/label. And that's only if they decide to monetize a specific song (which they regularly do).
Sorry if I came off as self-righteous. I was simply wondering why people would buy a CD that has been freely available for many years. After all, it's not like it's a brand new, unheard recording. Then I could understand it.
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It's for sale in a lot of places. Hell, I even found 2 copies in a store in Copenhagen last year. So they must have a good network.
And of course you've been collecting for decades before me. Some of you started collecting their shows before I was even born! :D
Storming Detroit got a worldwide release. I know there is a copyright law discrepancy between the EU and the USA, which is why many of these radio broadcasts are being released. That's why for a while, a few years, back, you could find some of these only on amazon.co.uk, and amazon.de, etc., but not on amazon.com. But recently (last year or so), Amazon.com seems to have caved, and has been offering them for sale, which is why so many of them are turning up (I picked up gigs by Alice in Chains, Guns N Roses, Queensryche, and a few others). It's something that doesn't have an easy legal answer. But I have to believe the bands all know this, as do their attorneys, and if they really had an issue with it, they could do something to make that known and potentially block it.
Me uploading the recordings to YouTube isn't illegal though? Most of it is stuff that people recorded (granted, at venues that didn't allow it). However, the only people making any money whatsoever on it, is the band/label. And that's only if they decide to monetize a specific song (which they regularly do).
Technically, yes. Any of us who acquired a live audience recording have technically violated U.S. Copyright Law. And when you disseminate that recording (trading it, hosting it, and yes, putting it on services such as YouTube), that is, if I recall correctly, illegal. I mean, most bands don't come after fans for that sort of thing, but if they wanted to, they certainly COULD. But that creates a shitstorm of bad press, not to mention the enforcement issues. That's why YouTube likely ignores it, but from time to time, they remove videos and songs that were official releases (likely because the labels told them to).
Sorry if I came off as self-righteous. I was simply wondering why people would buy a CD that has been freely available for many years. After all, it's not like it's a brand new, unheard recording. Then I could understand it.
You have done the QR community a great service by starting your bootleg channel. Tons of great shows up there for people to enjoy. But in regard to the Storming Detroit show, while you are right, it has been out there for years, you have to remember, 98 percent of fans don't want to go through the hassle of finding the show (bootleg sites) and downloading it. If they can buy it retail, that's the easier way to do it. Which is why all of these companies releasing these radio broadcasts are doing it -- they know a lot of people will buy them, because most people aren't bootleg traders and don't want the hassle of looking into how to do (hey, doing DIME is a pain in the ass for a newbie, ya know).
But seriously, Setzer, you've done all QR fans a solid by posting up these audio shows at www.youtube.com/queensrychebootlegs
Fans should check it out and get their fill of live Ryche n Roll.
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Over the last few days, my wife and I were talking about the possibility of Queensryche reuniting with Geoff Tate and Chris DeGarmo. Now, before everyone says "it'll never happen," let me say I think it is extremely unlikely. But I thought I'd throw the speculation out there a little bit for discussion.
Tate is booking tiny places, saying things in the media that the differences in Queensryche can be "worked out," etc. He also interestingly posted (or someone posted for him) a message on FB that he's making some "changes" in his life recently. All this is sorta expected, at least by me. His "Operation: Mindcrime" project is not taking off, he didn't tour to support his second record under that name, and I think it's debatable if he'll tour on the third, if it ever gets released. In a nutshell, he's touring around doing acoustic Queensryche songs in bars, and seeing (I think) the writing on the wall -- he's just not in demand outside of Queensryche.
Queensryche isn't nearly in the same position, but they are also getting smaller bookings and playing smaller places. QR's records with La Torre have been well received by fans, but I don't see any uptick in where they are playing, which is an indicator that their status level with booking agents really hasn't gone up at all. And that affects the bottom line, given how many bands are out their touring these days -- they likely have to accept less money to play.
Age-wise, and interest wise, there are just two years that make any sense for a full-fledged reunion of Queensryche's original lineup: 2018 and 2020.
2018 is the 30th Anniversary of Operation: Mindcrime. In the lawsuit settlement between Tate and Queensryche, Tate received the rights to PERFORM Operation: Mindcrime in its entirety. Queensryche cannot do so. They can play songs from it, but they can't play more than a few songs in a row.
Then consider this: Tate is going to be 59 in 2018, and the rest of the band are all in their late 50s as well. The end is very much in-sight, if you think about it.
2020 is the 30th Anniversary of Empire -- the band's best-selling record. If there are two records QR is known for, and that attract people, it is Mindcrime and Empire. And time is running out to capitalize on either (it could have already, depending on the promoters).
Now the reality -- Tate can say anything he wants. if the guys currently in Queensryche are happy, and there is no indication that they aren't, then yeah, why bother? But money DOES talk, and time help heal wounds. We've seen it in a ton of bands. If there was a deal on the table that was too big to resist, it could spark this:
A temporary reunion of the original lineup to celebrate the 30th Anniversary of Operation: Mindcrime. The wildcard is DeGarmo. But if this was a TEMPORARY reunion, for North American and European tour legs, and the money was right, it could be do-able. DeGarmo tried getting together with QR twice in the last 15 years -- Tribe (where he wrote songs with them), and then according to Jason Slater (who produced QR for a number of years) after Mindcrime II, when the bigger management teams started sniffing around (note: this was when he completed the song "Justified," which was meant for Tribe but unfinished, and finally released in 2007 -- a year after MC II). DeGarmo has never closed the door. But he has kept a distance over the years (smartly). Some sort of 2018-2020 timeframe would be the last (most likely) plausible time for him to connect with his former bandmates in any sort of reunion.
The key thing is exposure and money. If promoters feel a temporary-reunited original lineup Queensryche playing Operation: Mindcrime and Empire tunes (think Building Empires tour) in celebration of the 30th anniversary of both albums is something that would be a big draw, it could open doors. The whole "temporary" thing is not unheard of -- Fates Warning has done it to celebrate Awaken the Guardian and Parallels in recent years. This idea would be Queensryche doing it on a bigger scale.
Here are the positives of this temporary reunion and anniversary idea:
- Fans get to see the original lineup of the band do its most popular records live (whether it is just Mindcrime and the hits, or both albums together, whatever).
- Queensryche maintains its current lineup (if they are concerned with that).
- Tate would increase his stature, improve his legacy, and set himself up a little better going into his 60s.
- DeGarmo gets to play live again with all the guys he had huge success with, giving a proper cap-off to his musical career with Queensryche.
- Everyone makes more money and plays on bigger stages.
- If recorded and released, the show could be a financial help in the future with sales.
I think the perspective of folks here, who aren't necessarily hardcores, but still fans, is key -- is an idea like this for a temporary reunion something you'd be into? Why or why not? Would you make a show like this a priority in a summer amphitheater tour, particularly if another well respected band was opening?
Again, I think given the history of Queensryche, this is highly unlikely. However, it IS possible, and feasible. And as I said, temporary reunions are not unheard of, and give the original members flexibility to move forward with current lineups in the future.
For me, obviously, this would be a great highlight. Tate would have to work really hard to get his voice into shape, and I wouldn't expect Tate from 1988-1992. But I think with work, he'd be able to get his voice into good enough shape for Queensryche to put on a high quality show. But then again, I'm a hardcore fan of the original band's lineup and music. The key is most of you all -- the fans of the band that aren't diehards. Would this idea be something you'd be into if it happened?
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Mixed feelings. On one hand, I think it could be good for the fans and the band for the reasons you mention. On the other hand, part of me doesn't ever want to see Tate within a country mile of this band again because of all he did to almost ruin them. But on a temporary basis, if this were to happen, I think the positives outweigh the negatives. It is something I know I would make an effort to see.
One additional indirect hurdle to something like this being successful is that Tate oversaturated Mindcrime. I don't know if the timeline to the anniversaries is enough to dilute that. But then again, fans can sometimes have short memories when it comes to stuff like that, so... :dunno:
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So I know what I'm about to say, may spur the comeback, "What about Iron Maiden?" BUT Maiden is a current working band, together. Still making and touring new music. Their Old Stuff tours (for lack of a better term) are at least advertised as such.
OK, on to Queensryche.
Count me as not the least bit interested. I cannot support a bunch of old timers reuniting for a cash grab, which is all this would be. They'd be playing old songs from 30 years ago. Die hards who may not have lived through those years I can see some benefit from, but the whole entire thing would lack integrity.
Could the shows be good? Sure. But it'd be a total sham.
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I cannot support a bunch of old timers reuniting for a cash grab, which is all this would be. They'd be playing old songs from 30 years ago. Die hards who may not have lived through those years I can see some benefit from, but the whole entire thing would lack integrity.
Could the shows be good? Sure. But it'd be a total sham.
Yes, but...so what? Serious question. That happens all the time. if the show actually is good, why is the fact that it's a cash grab a problem?
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TAC,
Yeah, it would be a cash grab sure. But as bosk1 has said, it happens all the times with a ton of bands. Take Guns N Roses. While it wasn't a reunion of the entire original lineup, it did reunite Slash, Axl, and Duff. I saw the tour in Seattle, after saying the same thing as you (it was a gift from a friend). I had a GREAT time, and the show was pretty amazing. It was so good that I'd go back in a heartbeat on my own dime.
I completely get what you're saying, and you're not wrong. But in this day and age, aren't money-based reunions, that have a closure element and nostalgia pull for the fans a normal thing? I think so.
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Chris would be the deciding factor for me. I'm like Bosk in that I don't want to see Tate anywhere near this band again. Maybe if he was forced to sign some kind of contract that defines limitation on his behaviour. Even after that, I would probably be more interested in seeing them reunite with Chris and retain Todd as the singer. My reasons for feeling this way go beyond the current abilities of either singer. I simply feel that Todd is a much more likable human being. Once you piece that together with the rest of the factors...
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I cannot support a bunch of old timers reuniting for a cash grab, which is all this would be. They'd be playing old songs from 30 years ago. Die hards who may not have lived through those years I can see some benefit from, but the whole entire thing would lack integrity.
Could the shows be good? Sure. But it'd be a total sham.
Yes, but...so what? Serious question. That happens all the time. if the show actually is good, why is the fact that it's a cash grab a problem?
Sure. So the whole thing would be diminished in my eyes. But I'm just one fan, and it's only my viewpoint. I don't know. I just wouldn't have any interest in it.
Nobody loved Queensryche in the 80's more than I did. Both Warning and O:M made the TAC Top 50, and both were in the first 25 than the last 25.
It could be a great thing for die hards, and a younger generation that never had an opportunity to see them. I experienced that when I saw Deep Purple in 1984.
I completely get what you're saying, and you're not wrong. But in this day and age, aren't money-based reunions, that have a closure element and nostalgia pull for the fans a normal thing? I think so.
Oh, absolutely. But I'm just not obliged to care for it, and a Queensryche reunion is one that I simply wouldn't have any interest.
I'm sure GnR was a great show. They always were a great live band. But I didn't have any interest in that either.
And I totally accept that I may miss out on something that may actually be good.
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But I'm just not obliged to care for it
Fair enough.
TAC,
Yeah, it would be a cash grab sure. But as bosk1 has said, it happens all the times with a ton of bands. Take Guns N Roses. While it wasn't a reunion of the entire original lineup, it did reunite Slash, Axl, and Duff. I saw the tour in Seattle, after saying the same thing as you (it was a gift from a friend). I had a GREAT time, and the show was pretty amazing. It was so good that I'd go back in a heartbeat on my own dime.
I completely get what you're saying, and you're not wrong. But in this day and age, aren't money-based reunions, that have a closure element and nostalgia pull for the fans a normal thing? I think so.
Wait, so I just realized something. So now you are actually arguing in favor of a nostalgia tour?? I FEEL LIKE I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU!
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Chris would be the deciding factor for me. I'm like Bosk in that I don't want to see Tate anywhere near this band again. Maybe if he was forced to sign some kind of contract that defines limitation on his behaviour. Even after that, I would probably be more interested in seeing them reunite with Chris and retain Todd as the singer. My reasons for feeling this way go beyond the current abilities of either singer. I simply feel that Todd is a much more likable human being. Once you piece that together with the rest of the factors...
From a performance standpoint, Todd would be a better choice at the moment. But like it or not, Tate's presence with DeGarmo is a part of the tour's draw, at least in my opinion. Queensryche isn't big enough anymore to do a big tour, in a big venue, without the original band. I think the last few years proved that. DeGarmo wouldn't make a huge difference to promoters with the current lineup, in my opinion, given how long he's been out of the band. But the entirety of the original lineup -- I do know Livenation was interested in making that happen back in 2010 before the blowup. That was mentioned to me by a band member. So there may be some interest in it again, a few more years down the line, with the album anniversary angle included. Again, all just speculation.
I agree with you about the behavior clause for Tate, however. That, and something in regard to vocal coaching and preparation would be something I would want in the contract to ensure it was as good as it was going to get. Axl Rose did a ton of vocal training before the Not in This Lifetime tour. Tate would need to as well to pull off the kind of set we're talking about here anyway.
Wait, so I just realized something. So now you are actually arguing in favor of a nostalgia tour?? I FEEL LIKE I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU!
Ha ha ha ha. Well, personally, I'd PREFER that the original lineup reunite and do a full on new album, and a headline tour centered on the performance of Mindcrime in 2018 that featured a first set of that new album and the hits. But I think that's even more unlikely than this whole album anniversary reunion tour. :lol
So I went with the next least likely, but still feasible option. :rollin
Honestly, while I am not overly thrilled with the current lineup of Queensryche, most fans are, and they've put out two good records. And at least publicly, they seem to all be united and happy. So if that's the case, then it'd be dumb for Eddie, Scott and Mike to ditch that happiness on any sort of permanent level. But a temporary reunion, to celebrate their past, and put a cap on some things, may be more tolerable, and give them more options moving forward. And, as TAC put, it is a feasible (potentially) cash grab, which Michael, Scott and Eddie probably could use, to help set up retirement, which is looming, I'm sure.
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So thinking about this further, if there was a reunion and they recorded a new album, I would of course be curious and give it a listen. And if a tour commenced after that, well, maybe...
But if they announce dates next summer for a 30th Anniversary of O:M and that's all it was and all it would ever be, then no, not sure I can get behind that. I think if I were a single guy with nothing else going on, sure, I might "catch it", but I really wouldn't have the time, money, and effort for it now.
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I would like to see DeGarmo back in the CURRENT lineup.
Also, the OM saga has been milked many times so I wouldn't be interested in it. And also, the full OM story was already documented in Mindcrime at the Moore.
I would however, be interested in seeing Empire played completely with the current lineup (DeGarmo would be a plus if the current lineup pulls it off).
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At this point at least I think Wilton and the crew have a similar philosophy to the guys in Skid Row (who could've made a packet supporting GnR given Bach's connection with Axl)..........they value their happiness/self respect/reputation more than the money.
At the very least Tate would need to humbly ask for forgiveness and get some vocal/ear coaching pronto. At this point he isn't capable of performing the songs to a level that the band would be okay with IMO.
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Interesting scenario. It's amazing that it's been about five years since the Tate/QR conflicts first surfaced. To me, it still feels like yesterday. I really don't feel like enough time has elapsed for me as a fan to welcome back Tate, even for just a handful of OM anniversary shows. He still makes my skin crawl. Maybe that will fade with the passage of a few more years though, who knows. However, I'd be lying if I'd said I wouldn't check out a local show just to see how it would go, etc.
DeGarmo, though, is another story. I think all QR fans would love to see him back in QR world in any capacity he is comfortable with -- a few lives shows, a guest appearance on an upcoming album, a full-fledged album and tour. Whatever the man is up for, I'm down for it.
I guess my answer then is DeGarmo without Tate, although I know that wasn't the question. But see how that goes first. DeGarmo already vanished after the Tribe sessions, so I'd rather him get involved without the possibility of Tate drama.
Then maybe, MAYBE, I could be open to a Tate appearance of some kind after another five years pass.
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If they got the original lineup together for an anniversary tour, it might make sense to reprise the Building Empires tour. They played Mindcrime in full, a bunch of Empire songs, and Roads To Madness, Walk In the Shadows, and Take Hold. The Empire songs they played were Best I Can, Thin Line, JWC, Empire, Resistance, and Silent Lucidity. I think they may have also played Another Rainy Night, but can't remember for sure.
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If they got the original lineup together for an anniversary tour, it might make sense to reprise the Building Empires tour. They played Mindcrime in full, a bunch of Empire songs, and Roads To Madness, Walk In the Shadows, and Take Hold. The Empire songs they played were Best I Can, Thin Line, JWC, Empire, Resistance, and Silent Lucidity. I think they may have also played Another Rainy Night, but can't remember for sure.
I remember suggesting that for the 25th of Empire this year in 2015 (with the current lineup), and got ridiculed by the QR fanbase for it. :lol
The setlist for the Building EMpires tour from 1990-1992 changed a little bit. ARN was played, but some songs were swapped (Hand on Heart was only played early on, Roads to Madness disappeared for Last Time in Paris a little, etc.).
So far, I see people here wanting the CURRENT lineup of the band to go out and do something like this with DeGarmo. i get it, but I also think that if DeGarmo was interested in performing with the current band, he likely would have by now. He's remained silent. DeGarmo has always struck me as a guy with high integrity. I don't think he'd play with current Queensryche, just like he didn't play with Tate. If DeGarmo is going to play, he's likely (in my opinion) going to do it with the original QR, intact, or not at all.
Good responses so far though. Early on, it looks as if most wouldn't be into it, because of Tate. Interesting.
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I wouldn't be against it, but Geoff would have to prove that he is a changed man with a public apology and statement for some of his behavior in the past. It would have to include Chris and it would have to be a joint agreement that its the final stage of the band and a farewell tour of some kind. Because to have the band continue in some capacity after this reunion would kind of lose its point.
But I agree with Brent and see it similar to Skid Row. The guys in the band just don't feel its worth the hassle.
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If they got the original lineup together for an anniversary tour, it might make sense to reprise the Building Empires tour. They played Mindcrime in full, a bunch of Empire songs, and Roads To Madness, Walk In the Shadows, and Take Hold. The Empire songs they played were Best I Can, Thin Line, JWC, Empire, Resistance, and Silent Lucidity. I think they may have also played Another Rainy Night, but can't remember for sure.
I remember suggesting that for the 25th of Empire this year (with the current lineup), and got ridiculed by the QR fanbase for it. :lol
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I know to me, it just feels "too soon." In a few years, I think that is a logical set if a reunion tour hypothetically happened. I think the problem with "the QR fanbase" weighing in on that is that "the QR fanbase" has seen all of that done to death through the years. We are naturally burned out on Mindcrime and Empire, and that is hard to overcome. But the more numerous casual fans that would likely turn out for a reunion show in large numbers haven't necessarily tuned in to every gig and might not feel nearly as burned out on that material.
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That's a great point Bosk. Haven't they milked the Mindcrime thing to death already?
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I wouldn't be against it, but Geoff would have to prove that he is a changed man with a public apology and statement for some of his behavior in the past. It would have to include Chris and it would have to be a joint agreement that its the final stage of the band and a farewell tour of some kind. Because to have the band continue in some capacity after this reunion would kind of lose its point.
I agree that that is what I would want. And I think that is what the vast majority of folks out there would want. But I also tend to think that in reality, even if no apology was forthcoming, and it was not clear that it was a "farewell tour," most of us would probably forgive both of those facts once concert dates started to draw near, and we would end up going and still enjoying it. :lol
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Yeah thats just an ideal scenario. I would be interested regardless of an apology or not.
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But I agree with Brent and see it similar to Skid Row. The guys in the band just don't feel its worth the hassle.
Brent did bring up a good analogy. And if Wilton, jackson and rockenfield do feel that way, I can't blame them one iota. I mean let's face it, Tate's assault on them, both physically and verbally, was a toll I'm not sure anyone would want to forgive, even five or six years down the line.
In regard to bosk's comments about burnout, good point, but yes and no. Empire, to-date, still hasn't been performed in its entirety. And while the singles have been played to death, deep cuts such as Resistance, One and Only, and Hand on Heart have not been. The latter two made sporadic appearances in 2008/2009, but Resistance hasn't been played since 1992.
Resistance was only played sporadically in 2009, and never again.
As for Mindcrime, you are, of course, right. However, Queensryche hasn't played the record in its entirety now for what...10 years? And while Tate's band of merry men butchered it in 2013 trying to celebrate the 25th of it, it hasn't been trotted out by him again in its entirety (if memory serves) since then (I could be wrong on that). So yeah, burnout, buuuuuttt...if factor in that Queensryche hasn't played it in a decade, and they haven't played it in-full with Chris since 1992, I think people will be interested.
The hardcores may be burned out for sure. But I still think the allure to the common fan of seeing the original band do it, or do some semblance of the Building Empires tour to note both records' anniversaries would be a draw for most.
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I would love to see Resistance and Hand On Heart (although I'm not sure Tate can sing Resistance anymore). If they played One and Only, I would hope that they would save it for the end of the show, because it would make me stab my eardrums repeatedly, which would then ruin the rest of the show for me.
But are you sure they didn't play Resistance ever after 1992? I may be misremembering, but I thought they played it in the latter years. I seem to even remember discussion about the "Cries the man on the Right" line. I could have sworn it was in the set I saw in Portland on the Take Cover tour, but according to setlistfm, it wasn't.
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But are you sure they didn't play Resistance ever after 1992? I may be misremembering, but I thought they played it in the latter years. I seem to even remember discussion about the "Cries the man on the Right" line. I could have sworn it was in the set I saw in Portland on the Take Cover tour, but according to setlistfm, it wasn't.
Actually, you got me on that one. They played it on the American Soldier tour, rotating it in a few times in the Empire suite. I should know -- I saw it and filmed it. :lol You didn't want to go to the show with me, if memory serves. It was a weeknight, or a Sunday night, if I believe, and up in a college town. My recording of it is up on youtube somewhere. Tate was horribly off key to start, and then got it together somewhat more after the solo.
But they only played it a few times (I believe) on that tour, in 2009.
Quote from my review:
Crowd favorites such as "Best I Can," "Jet City Woman" and "Another Rainy Night (Without You)" received thunderous ovations, while long-time fans were also treated to a surprising rendition of "Resistance," which is being played for the first time since appearing as the opening number during Queensr˙che's "Building Empires" tour from 1990-1992.
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Ah, okay, so I wasn't imagining it after all. Good to know my mind isn't completely shot (even if I did have the wrong tour). :lol
I don't remember why that show didn't work out. Probably the scheduling. I do know I wanted to see them on that tour if it had worked out (Mrs. Bosk and I were both VERY disappointed when we discovered after the fact that they had played the same night we landed in New Orleans at the HOB 2 blocks from our hotel).
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I think it would show real weakness from Whip, Scott and Eddie if they ever reunited with Tate after everything that has come out. Just my opinion, I'd keep Tate away.
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I think it would show real weakness from Whip, Scott and Eddie if they ever reunited with Tate after everything that has come out. Just my opinion, I'd keep Tate away.
Thank you. But I wouldn't put it last them. Look how long they stuck with him. Pretty weak right there,
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I think it would show real weakness from Whip, Scott and Eddie if they ever reunited with Tate after everything that has come out. Just my opinion, I'd keep Tate away.
Thank you. But I wouldn't put it last them. Look how long they stuck with him. Pretty weak right there,
I always thought that right from the start all the details came to head. 3 vs 1 and they put up with it for 20 years, pfft!
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Wolf and TAC -- you're not wrong at all.
My gut tells me that none of this will ever happen. Tate is desperate at this point, which is why I think it is more feasible. I mean, he's literally playing a converted hamburger shack in my town next month with this acoustic show. It's capacity is 200, at MOST. I ate there 10 years ago, it was bought, and converted into a bar, where they added a stage and now host a bunch of real small national acts coming around in the rock/metal/country genres.
But nothing from Queensryche indicates to me that they are unhappy. So unless an offer comes through that is so large they have to consider it (and I am sure they would), I don't see it happening either. But I felt the "temporary" angle to support the album anniversaries was a nice bailout way of keeping some continuity while recognizing some landmarks.
I guess we'll see in the next couple of years...
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I think there is one other very important thing to factor in that history has shown us about this band: If there is an opportunity to be had that could be great for the band, could boost their image among the fanbase, and could provide handsome revenue, they will find a way to let apathy cause it to slip through their fingers. Or to put it another way: The more it makes sense, the higher the likelihood they will find a way to blow it.
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Maybe the delusion has finally washed off from Tate and he has no choice but to come to terms that he isn't what he was, especially without the band, and never will be.
As you say, time will tell.
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I think there is one other very important thing to factor in that history has shown us about this band: If there is an opportunity to be had that could be great for the band, could boost their image among the fanbase, and could provide handsome revenue, they will find a way to let apathy cause it to slip through their fingers. Or to put it another way: The more it makes sense, the higher the likelihood they will find a way to blow it.
Been pretty much par for the course after Empire, hasn't it? :lol
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I think there is one other very important thing to factor in that history has shown us about this band: If there is an opportunity to be had that could be great for the band, could boost their image among the fanbase, and could provide handsome revenue, they will find a way to let apathy cause it to slip through their fingers. Or to put it another way: The more it makes sense, the higher the likelihood they will find a way to blow it.
To me, boosting their image to their fan base is to stay on the current track and make quality music, no? Does making a cash grab to play a 30 year old Empire boost their image?? I think it cheapens it and washes all of the goodwill and dignity that they have fought so hard to get back over the last couple of years.
But hey, money talks I guess and bulshit...well, that'll be exactly what it is. Bullshit.
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I think there is one other very important thing to factor in that history has shown us about this band: If there is an opportunity to be had that could be great for the band, could boost their image among the fanbase, and could provide handsome revenue, they will find a way to let apathy cause it to slip through their fingers. Or to put it another way: The more it makes sense, the higher the likelihood they will find a way to blow it.
To me, boosting their image to their fan base is to stay on the current track and make quality music, no? Does making a cash grab to play a 30 year old Empire boost their image?? I think it cheapens it and washes all of the goodwill and dignity that they have fought so hard to get back over the last couple of years.
But hey, money talks I guess and bulshit...well, that'll be exactly what it is. Bullshit.
Tim's on point here.
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I think there is one other very important thing to factor in that history has shown us about this band: If there is an opportunity to be had that could be great for the band, could boost their image among the fanbase, and could provide handsome revenue, they will find a way to let apathy cause it to slip through their fingers. Or to put it another way: The more it makes sense, the higher the likelihood they will find a way to blow it.
To me, boosting their image to their fan base is to stay on the current track and make quality music, no? Does making a cash grab to play a 30 year old Empire boost their image?? I think it cheapens it and washes all of the goodwill and dignity that they have fought so hard to get back over the last couple of years.
But hey, money talks I guess and bulshit...well, that'll be exactly what it is. Bullshit.
Tim's on point here.
Kade's on point there. :D
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Shut up, both of you. El Dorado rules.
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It's more the Chris aspect that makes it interesting.
It would be interesting to see how that would play out, but from an artistic standpoint and for their own state of mind, they are best staying their current course
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It's more the Chris aspect that makes it interesting.
It would be interesting to see how that would play out, but from an artistic standpoint and for their own state of mind, they are best staying their current course
That's the thing. I really don't see Chris ever uniting with current Queensryche to do anything. I could be way off base with that, and it's just me speculating, but I think he'll only do something with the original five guys, or not at all. That's why I tossed the idea out there.
Although behind the scenes, current QR can't be happy with some of the bookings they are getting, publicly, they all seem united. But at the end of the day, I think 2018-2020 is the last feasible time period the original Queensryche could ever truly get together and put on a tour worthwhile of their legacy.
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Shut up, both of you. El Dorado rules.
(https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/imported_assets/2290874/ShakeHarderBoy.gif)
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:lol
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From what I've seen, the venues that Queensryche have been playing have been pretty small. I'm sure that must frustrating. It looks like a lot of the crowds are in the couple hundreds.
They should be getting on bigger tours as one or two opening bands, that's the only way at this stage of their career that they will make advancements. But I know there are politics in how that plays out.
And going back to Chris, I'm sure he still itching in some capacity to play one more time.
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What are other bands from the 80's playing? Pretty small places across the board, no? Unless they get on a tour with 3 or 4 bands on the bill. Not sure what else they would expect? The Glory Days are behind all of these bands. Which is unfortunate because many of these bands are making some of their best music ever.
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Yeah, would a full blown Queensryche reunion send them back playing large arenas again? I wouldn't think so, but could be wrong.
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Probably not arenas. But medium-large theaters would be a step up.
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Probably not arenas. But medium-large theaters would be a step up.
Definitely not arenas. Not in the US anyway. And for a theater tour, they would still need STRONG support.
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With the original lineup, they could likely coheadline small amphitheaters in the summer, and play theaters such as the Warfield in SF (2800 cap) as a headliner with strong support.
Right now, qr is playing 500-1000 cap clubs, with support like armored saint. But thats deceiving, because a bunch of those tickets were groupon deals. Whether a promoter factors that in or not, i dont know...
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Yeah, would a full blown Queensryche reunion send them back playing large arenas again? I wouldn't think so, but could be wrong.
I don't think you are.
We saw the band on the Promised Land tour. which immediately followed Empire, and there was literally no more than 3,000 people there, in an arena where they could have filled up 4x that many seats. I remember looking around and being shocked at how small the crowd was; tours following an album that successful usually do well just on the strength alone of that smash hit. And that was 22 years ago. A few weeks ago, Silent Lucidity came on Pandora at work, and I was literally the only person who knew the song. Queensryche just doesn't have name recognition.
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Who?
;D
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Yeah, would a full blown Queensryche reunion send them back playing large arenas again? I wouldn't think so, but could be wrong.
I don't think you are.
We saw the band on the Promised Land tour. which immediately followed Empire, and there was literally no more than 3,000 people there, in an arena where they could have filled up 4x that many seats. I remember looking around and being shocked at how small the crowd was; tours following an album that successful usually do well just on the strength alone of that smash hit. And that was 22 years ago. A few weeks ago, Silent Lucidity came on Pandora at work, and I was literally the only person who knew the song. Queensryche just doesn't have name recognition.
That's what I was thinking. They simply aren't that top tier classic metal band with the followings, like Priest, Maiden etc.
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What are other bands from the 80's playing? Pretty small places across the board, no? Unless they get on a tour with 3 or 4 bands on the bill. Not sure what else they would expect? The Glory Days are behind all of these bands. Which is unfortunate because many of these bands are making some of their best music ever.
Casinos.
And QR is doing that now.
I think they are doing just fine. Bringing Geoff back would maybe put *a few* more butts in the seats....but the show quality would PLUMMET, and the few butts would not be enough revue to justify the pain in the ass it would be.
I would be all for Chris coming back. I don't expect him to fully come back. But I'm a bit surprised he hasn't joined them for an encore at some point.
For the love of God.....PLEASE don't bring back Geoff. His voice is shot, and he's a waste of skin and oxygen.
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What are other bands from the 80's playing? Pretty small places across the board, no? Unless they get on a tour with 3 or 4 bands on the bill. Not sure what else they would expect? The Glory Days are behind all of these bands. Which is unfortunate because many of these bands are making some of their best music ever.
Casinos.
And QR is doing that now.
I think they are doing just fine. Bringing Geoff back would maybe put *a few* more butts in the seats....but the show quality would PLUMMET, and the few butts would not be enough revue to justify the pain in the ass it would be.
I would be all for Chris coming back. I don't expect him to fully come back. But I'm a bit surprised he hasn't joined them for an encore at some point.
For the love of God.....PLEASE don't bring back Geoff. His voice is shot, and he's a waste of skin and oxygen.
QFT , although not enough revue was never a problem :neverusethis:
(https://allaccessmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Queensryche-01.jpg)
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Would be funny if Chris joined the current lienup with Todd, but that's just me talking shit.
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Over the last few days, my wife and I were talking about the possibility of Queensryche reuniting with Geoff Tate and Chris DeGarmo. Now, before everyone says "it'll never happen," let me say I think it is extremely unlikely. But I thought I'd throw the speculation out there a little bit for discussion.
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in Geoff's return. Ever. His vocals have been ragged for a long time, his stage presence has been lazy post-Promised Land and the guy is a two-faced bell-end who had a damn good go at running the band into the ground through a series of egotistical missteps that would've all been avoided if he'd just been true to his word and buggered off after the Promised Land tour.
Aside from the very early QR songs, where I genuinely think Todd sings them better, Todd isn't, and never will be, as good as Geoff was in the late-80s/early-90s in any way (Geoff's lyrics, stage presence and vocal prowess were all better than Todd now... though one can never be sure how much Geoff's lyrics were helped by having DeGarmo around to massage them into shape), but Todd is a big upgrade on Tate now, he's a good guy who gets on with the rest of the band, he actually likes metal, and he's probably about as good a fit they could've managed to find at this stage of their career without ending up with a revolving door of singers.
I'd love to see DeGarmo do a guest slot (either on an album or at a live show), but I'm not sure he ever will. From the online interview with him conducted circa 2011 he implied he was still on good terms with Geoff and, whilst I'm almost certain he's privately on Whip/QR's side of the post-split fence, I'm not sure he'll ever make a public statement/endorsement that's an indication he's chosen a side and thus compromise any good will that's left between him and Geoff. Besides which, DeGarmo seems quite happy to be out of the industry. Sure, he's doing a bit of pottering about with his daughter, but were that to take off I seriously doubt he'd be packing in the day job and going out on tour with her.
And anyway, DeGarmo's twice left the band in part because of Geoff, so why on earth would he subject himself to it all a third time? I don't get the impression he's pissed away a big chunk of his QR money either, so I can't imagine he's got an eye on one last big pay day.
Regardless, I don't think the current and historical standing of QR means there'd be enough public appetite for a full reunion for it to be worth their while and as such I see nothing good coming out of it for the band as exists in 2017.
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Yeah, would a full blown Queensryche reunion send them back playing large arenas again? I wouldn't think so, but could be wrong.
I don't think you are.
We saw the band on the Promised Land tour. which immediately followed Empire, and there was literally no more than 3,000 people there, in an arena where they could have filled up 4x that many seats. I remember looking around and being shocked at how small the crowd was; tours following an album that successful usually do well just on the strength alone of that smash hit. And that was 22 years ago. A few weeks ago, Silent Lucidity came on Pandora at work, and I was literally the only person who knew the song. Queensryche just doesn't have name recognition.
Kev -- totally spot-on, unfortunately. Queensryche was an arena band for one tour cycle really, that's it.
Would be funny if Chris joined the current lienup with Todd, but that's just me talking shit.
Why would it be funny? I really don't think it'd happen -- it would have already if Chris wanted it to. He has an open invitation from Wilton to do so, and never has. So while it could happen, I think at this point, in my opinion, Chris pretty much isn't doing anything with them unless it is the original band. Which sorta sucks for some people, but I get it to a degree.
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in Geoff's return. Ever. His vocals have been ragged for a long time, his stage presence has been lazy post-Promised Land and the guy is a two-faced bell-end who had a damn good go at running the band into the ground through a series of egotistical missteps that would've all been avoided if he'd just been true to his word and buggered off after the Promised Land tour.
Cruithne -- great post overall. I hear ya regarding Tate. I decided to go see him soon, just because he sings better over an acoustic backdrop these days, and he's doing a few songs I'd like to hear that I highly doubt Queensryche will ever play live again/at all: Some People Fly, Chasing Blue Sky, Out of Mind.
But I agree, his vocals haven't been right since that 2005 summer tour with Priest, although some would still give him through 2006. But to me, he really sounded great in summer of 2005, and after that, a decline and nose dive.
Aside from the very early QR songs, where I genuinely think Todd sings them better, Todd isn't, and never will be, as good as Geoff was in the late-80s/early-90s in any way (Geoff's lyrics, stage presence and vocal prowess were all better than Todd now... though one can never be sure how much Geoff's lyrics were helped by having DeGarmo around to massage them into shape), but Todd is a big upgrade on Tate now, he's a good guy who gets on with the rest of the band, he actually likes metal, and he's probably about as good a fit they could've managed to find at this stage of their career without ending up with a revolving door of singers.
That's a completely fair statement. I don't agree Todd sings the old songs better than when Tate did them in his prime, but I do think Todd brings a metal edge to them that really takes them to a different level. I was lucky enough to see the Rising West debut of Todd, and a bunch of shows with him...the early stuff really is in his wheelhouse.
As for Tate and his lyrics/vocal melodies, it's pretty common knowledge at this point that Chris helped him with the vocal melodies. Wilton told me that, as did Ed, and even if they hadn't, you can hear it in the quality of the vocal melodies post-Chris -- they are much weaker.
In regard to Todd being an upgrade over Tate, yeah, for sure. I mean, it's really no contest at this point. I think Todd doesn't sing the post-Rage stuff as well as he does the early material. In particular, I'm not fond of his rendition of the Empire and Promised Land tunes. But that's mostly because his voice is thinner than Tate's. Those tunes were written for a much fuller and warmer vocal delivery.
I'd love to see DeGarmo do a guest slot (either on an album or at a live show), but I'm not sure he ever will. From the online interview with him conducted circa 2011 he implied he was still on good terms with Geoff and, whilst I'm almost certain he's privately on Whip/QR's side of the post-split fence, I'm not sure he'll ever make a public statement/endorsement that's an indication he's chosen a side and thus compromise any good will that's left between him and Geoff. Besides which, DeGarmo seems quite happy to be out of the industry. Sure, he's doing a bit of pottering about with his daughter, but were that to take off I seriously doubt he'd be packing in the day job and going out on tour with her.
I think you're spot-on. I know for a fact DeGarmo is kept up to speed by Wilton on everything, and has heard all the music. But as I said previously, DeGarmo has been very cautious about anything, and I think that's probably wise. Had he really wanted to play, he has an open invitation to do so. But he never has, and I don't think he will unless it is the original group.
As for his day job -- yeah, he's doing just fine. And the father-daughter thing is just that...a music hobby and something they've bonded over. His daughter has a professional job during the day.
And anyway, DeGarmo's twice left the band in part because of Geoff, so why on earth would he subject himself to it all a third time? I don't get the impression he's pissed away a big chunk of his QR money either, so I can't imagine he's got an eye on one last big pay day.
Really good point. But as I mentioned in my original post on the subject, Tate said something along the lines recently of making a big change in his life. Depending on what that is, and where Tate is mentally, if he ever does come out and talk with his bandmates again, and admit some of the wrongs, perhaps it would make them come full circle, even if on a temporary basis. Is it likely? Absolutely not. But time does have a way of healing.
In regard to the money, DeGarmo does just fine. ;)
Regardless, I don't think the current and historical standing of QR means there'd be enough public appetite for a full reunion for it to be worth their while and as such I see nothing good coming out of it for the band as exists in 2017.
Fair enough. :)
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Does anybody have a physical copy of The Rue's EP that originally came out last year or the year before? I would be interested in buying it if anybody has an interest in parting with it.
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I didn't know that about Whip giving Chris an open invitation, interesting. And I meant funny in regards to the Tate side of things. Would just be a funny slap in the face to him.
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I would wager that Chris would prefer not to take up Wilton's invitation just to avoid getting stuck in the middle. I'm sure Geoff would be cheesed if he joined Queensryche for something without Geoff there. I'm sure he would rather play happy medium to both sides. But, who knows.
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I would wager that Chris would prefer not to take up Wilton's invitation just to avoid getting stuck in the middle. I'm sure Geoff would be cheesed if he joined Queensryche for something without Geoff there. I'm sure he would rather play happy medium to both sides. But, who knows.
Chris joining the current Ryche would fuel reunion talk to the max too. People just wouldn't let it go and let it be. Both bands wouldn't be able to do their own thing as pressure off a reunion would be forefront.
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I feel like DeGarmos music headspace isn't on par with what the current Ryche is putting out.
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I feel like DeGarmos music headspace isn't on par with what the current Ryche is putting out.
probably not.
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Tate returning? Please god no :omg:
Aside form him being a big douche and I don't believe he is capable of recognizing that and making amends, I just think his voice is just shot. And I don't think any kind of vocal training could bring it back. Maybe get a little bit better than now but to be able to do the Mindcrime and Empire songs justice? No way!
The current QR lineup makes good quality music again, like they try to make amends for the Tateryche atrocities, and you can again admit that you are a fan without getting pitiful looks.
They are not as big as they were but they never will be again, thoses times are just over. And I think they were really big only for a short time. For most of their career they were a niche band. Therefore I don't think a reunion with Tate and DeGarmo would really draw that much of a crowd and add to that Tate's vocal problems and that Mindcrime is played to death imo, I can't imagine this being the great financial success. More like killing your career completely.
And DeGarmo? Has he done anything of musical "worth" since leaving QR? Is there any indication that he has some motivation to enter the rock circus again? I think he's pretty much done with music aside from playing guitar as a hobby.
TL,DR: not interested and not believing this is going to happen
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To clarify - Chris has an open invitation to join the current band for a guest performance whenever he wants -- say if he wanted to jump on stage and play a tune or two. That was as of a few years ago. I wasn't saying it was to rejoin permanently. That'd be kind of insulting to Parker Lundgren.
On a different note, anybody on here a fan of American Soldier from the Tateryche years? Out of that entire time period and the studio records during then (MC II, American Soldier, Dedicated to Chaos), I like American Soldier the most. It has the most Ryche-like feel to me. I really enjoy At 30,000 Ft., A Dead Man's Words, The Killer, and Man Down! Those tunes are highlights for me.
I didn't like how the record doesn't really represent the entirety of how a soldier feels, it's more negative overall, and missing some of the pride elements of serving. And the record sort of nose dives for me personally after Man Down!, but overall, it still stands out as my favorite from the time period. I was just listening to it yesterday...
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I can't listen to anything after Promised Land. There are some good tracks scattered about but with so much great music in the world there really is no justification for playing those albums.
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I thought AS was decent with 30000 ft and DMW being the clear standouts
By ending the album with three ballads really brought the album to a snails finish. I didn't enjoy Home Again at all
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To clarify - Chris has an open invitation to join the current band for a guest performance whenever he wants -- say if he wanted to jump on stage and play a tune or two. That was as of a few years ago. I wasn't saying it was to rejoin permanently. That'd be kind of insulting to Parker Lundgren.
Eh, not really. They could just tell him, "Look, Parker, don't take this personally, but we need you to legally change your name to Jannick..."
On a different note, anybody on here a fan of American Soldier from the Tateryche years? Out of that entire time period and the studio records during then (MC II, American Soldier, Dedicated to Chaos), I like American Soldier the most. It has the most Ryche-like feel to me. I really enjoy At 30,000 Ft., A Dead Man's Words, The Killer, and Man Down! Those tunes are highlights for me.
I didn't like how the record doesn't really represent the entirety of how a soldier feels, it's more negative overall, and missing some of the pride elements of serving. And the record sort of nose dives for me personally after Man Down!, but overall, it still stands out as my favorite from the time period. I was just listening to it yesterday...
I have two problems with American Soldier: (1) As you mention, there is a definite anti-military undercurrent. I think it is subtle, and it didn't even leap out at me at first until I really dug deeply into the album, but it is there. And it doesn't necessarily bother me that Geoff has a point of view that is different than mine. It is more the fact that, first off, he portrayed the album as being pro-military and it clearly wasn't, and second, putting together things we subsequently learned about the writing of the album and my own conversation with him when I met him on the previous tour that he was woefully out of touch with the other side of the coin and flat out didn't care. (2) Geoff's vocals are really subpar and detract from the album quite a bit.
That said, I still like the album quite a bit. I am just disappointed that the above 2 issues exist, because it would otherwise be a top QR album for me. There are some creative choices that I feel detracted a bit as well, such as removing the vocal verse from Unafraid and the track order making it ballad heavy toward the end, which kills the momentum (I differ from you in that I REALLY like The Voice and feel it is a great closer; but it isn't strong enough or epic enough to pick up the momentum after the ballads, unfortunately). But those are fairly mild nitpicks.
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American Soldier was a little bit better than other Tateryche records but that isn't saying much.
I thought the whole concept was a bad idea and I'm not sure what Tate wanted to show with it.
There are some decent songs but Tate's singing was very mediocre and then there's Home Again. I can understand a father wanting his child to sing on one of his songs but only the father (and probably the mother) can think this is cute. The rest of the listeners find these things cheesy, creepy or worse.
So, no, I didn't really enjoy AS.
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Eh, not really. They could just tell him, "Look, Parker, don't take this personally, but we need you to legally change your name to Jannick..."
:lol
On a different note, anybody on here a fan of American Soldier from the Tateryche years?
I liked it a lot when it came out. Felt way more focused and consistent. But didn't you or Bosk tell me that it's not even QR playing on it. With that being true, I likely will not listen to it again. It's not that good.
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Tim,
QR plays on the entirety of the record. They played it all, but didnt write anything. It was Mindcrime 2 that only has sporadic playing by Wilton, and Rockenfield. But a few things for that record were written by the band, however (Hostage, and then a few riffs).
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I can't listen to anything after Promised Land. There are some good tracks scattered about but with so much great music in the world there really is no justification for playing those albums.
That's where I'm am, too. A few songs from HITNF and Right Side of My Mind from Q2K are good, but if I am going to listen to QR, I am going to the 1984-1994 material. No need for me to waste my time with anything else.
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Nothing from Tribe?
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Never heard a single song from it...and have zero interest. I have read enough about those years that it's not worth my time to check them out, of the off chance that I find a few songs I like. Too much good music out there already to waste my time on the wasteland era of a band that isn't one of my favorites. The five albums from '84-'94 are all awesome. That's good enough for me. :coolio
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For the most part I stick with the 83-94 material as that's clearly the best.
But taking select songs from the subpar albums, you can make a pretty good single album. I know that's not saying much for a band over a 15 year period, but I'll still acknowledge some good songs.
For me, say an album with You, Spool, Liquid Sky, Breakdown, Right Side of My Mind, Great Divide, Art of Life, Hostage, Murderer, ReArrange You, 30,000ft and DMW would get a very regular spin from me
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I am a big HITNF guy.
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Nothing from Tribe?
I got a signed copy but it's awful, even the DeGarmo tracks. I'd rather listen to Q2k. If I really had to listen to substandard stuff from a once great band.
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I am a big HITNF guy.
I like it to a certain extent. It's not a terrible rock album, but it isn't a good QR album if ya know what I mean.
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HITNF is a prime example of an album that become immediately better when you condense it and bring it down to say 10 songs. Would still remain average or slightly above, but it would benefit
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I've always been drawn to bands that expand their music and sonic horizons. Doesn't Ean they can't go back to their strengths but I admire that.
After Chris left they lost everything.
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For the most part I stick with the 83-94 material as that's clearly the best.
But taking select songs from the subpar albums, you can make a pretty good single album. I know that's not saying much for a band over a 15 year period, but I'll still acknowledge some good songs.
For me, say an album with You, Spool, Liquid Sky, Breakdown, Right Side of My Mind, Great Divide, Art of Life, Hostage, Murderer, ReArrange You, 30,000ft and DMW would get a very regular spin from me
Agreed on 83-94. I also tried the compilation-type of record for some of the records. I basically start with Q2k, include the non-CDG era tracks of Tribe, and then MC 2, Take Cover, American Soldier and D2C. In no order, the compilation consists of:
Howl, When the Rain Comes, Right Side of My Mind, Liquid Sky, Breakdown, Sacred Ground, Falling Down, Tribe, Rhythm of Hope, The Great Divide, Re-Arrange You, Murderer, One Foot in Hell, Hostage (I much prefer the non-MC II Tribe era demo), At 30k Ft., DMW, The Killer, Man Down, and At the Edge. That's pretty much what I pull from those eras that isn't the full original band. Good songs. But clearly, not the same.
HITNF is a prime example of an album that become immediately better when you condense it and bring it down to say 10 songs. Would still remain average or slightly above, but it would benefit
Again, totally with you. HITNF was undercooked. And while by design, it's a design I think just didn't work for QR. For me personally, I always thought this would make a much better HITNF:
Sign of the Times
You
The Voice Inside
Some People Fly
Reach
Saved
Hero
Hit the Black
Chasing Blue Sky
spOOL
>>>>Admittedly, I'm not as high on Some People Fly, Saved, and Chasing Blue Sky as some others, but think they'd really provide some depth to the record if it was only 10 tracks are presented above.
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I love Hit The Black. Anytime Anywhere too.
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I like the version of Hit the Black on Live Evolution.
That's a great live album btw. I think Geoff's vocals work well on that one.
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I like the version of Hit the Black on Live Evolution.
That's a great live album btw. I think Geoff's vocals work well on that one.
It is pretty good. In retrospect, I think Kelly's guitar playing on the older stuff sticks out like a sore thumb. But quality-wise, the DVD is pretty amazing. And as a double disc goes, that's a pretty well rounded set from the band's catalog up to that point for sure.
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I think it also gave the Q2K songs a bit of a kick in the ass too.
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I actually had no major issues with Kelly's playing on that, although I know I am in the minority.
One of the standout songs on that set was the downtuned The Lady Wore Black. I love the original arrangement of that song, but I feel like the changes make it even more dark and brooding, which fits that song well.
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I like the version of Hit the Black on Live Evolution.
That's a great live album btw. I think Geoff's vocals work well on that one.
I've never heard that album.
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I like the version of Hit the Black on Live Evolution.
That's a great live album btw. I think Geoff's vocals work well on that one.
I've never heard that album.
wow, surprising
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Live Evolution was a very good release, I quite like it and I don't mind Kelly's playing. But I'm the one, the only one that thinks Q2K is a really strong record.
They did a good job of presenting their whole career on Live Evolution and Geoff sounds surprisingly good, I always wonder if there was much tempering in the studio afterwards.
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It was an excellent set list for sure
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I like the version of Hit the Black on Live Evolution.
That's a great live album btw. I think Geoff's vocals work well on that one.
I've never heard that album.
wow, surprising
I really washed my hands of QR after HITNF. I did buy O:M 2 though. Years later a friend sent me copies of Tribe and Q2K, both of which I was mildly surprised as each had some good tunes.
But it's all still half rate of the classic QR.
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Yeah nothing wrong with just sticking with classic QR. You aren't missing much by doing so
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I like the version of Hit the Black on Live Evolution.
That's a great live album btw. I think Geoff's vocals work well on that one.
I've never heard that album.
wow, surprising
I really washed my hands of QR after HITNF. I did buy O:M 2 though. Years later a friend sent me copies of Tribe and Q2K, both of which I was mildly surprised as each had some good tunes.
But it's all still half rate of the classic QR.
Yup, I agree.
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They did a good job of presenting their whole career on Live Evolution and Geoff sounds surprisingly good, I always wonder if there was much tempering in the studio afterwards.
Well, he did sound decent back then. I was at the second night of taping, and can say pretty confidently that there was fairly minimal touching up of the vocals in post-production, if any. I mean, listen to London if you doubt me. If ever there was a spot that desperately NEEDED touching up, it's the part in London right after the solo. I literally cringed at the show when he sang that and thought to myself, "I know they're going to re-do that in the studio before they release this show on disk." I was very surprised when they didn't. But what is deceptive about the vocals during that show is that they had piped in a ton of backup vocals to prop Geoff up. So although he is sing decently, it isn't all him. And that isn't post-production studio work. That is just what they piped in. I remember a few times at that show where, similar to watching the DVD afterward, Geoff did not have the mic up to his mouth, but you could hear "Geoff" singing.
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I think it also gave the Q2K songs a bit of a kick in the ass too.
Live Evolution absolutely did do that. I really liked the Q2k material live. I saw something like 11 shows on that tour, and the songs were much better live. A bigger energy. I was at the Seattle 1999 fan club show which marked Kelly's debut. The tunes were actually a LOT more energetic then. If you can track em down, the demos the guys debuted on the radio the day before that show (Breakdown Room, Sacred Ground, and Liquid Sky) are all much more energetic than the finished, polished versions. It was a bit of a bummer, honestly.
I actually had no major issues with Kelly's playing on that, although I know I am in the minority.
One of the standout songs on that set was the downtuned The Lady Wore Black. I love the original arrangement of that song, but I feel like the changes make it even more dark and brooding, which fits that song well.
His use of the wah really bothered me on Live Evolution. I could be mistaken, but his usage of it increased as the Q2k tour got longer.
I fully agree with you on TLWB. If memory serves, there are a few different versions of that song -- the one on the EP, the one they played live on the Empire tour, the unplugged version, the Q2k-Live Evolution version, and then it was changed again I think for Cabaret tour (? maybe, I didn't pay much attention to that).
Out of all of them, the Q2k/Live Evolution era one is probably my favorite.
I like the version of Hit the Black on Live Evolution.
That's a great live album btw. I think Geoff's vocals work well on that one.
I've never heard that album.
Tim -- you should pick it up. Or at least YouTube it. You'll cringe a bit at the wah pedal use by Kelly, but it is really a good DVD. The picture quality (for 2001) alone is worth the money.
Live Evolution was a very good release, I quite like it and I don't mind Kelly's playing. But I'm the one, the only one that thinks Q2K is a really strong record.
They did a good job of presenting their whole career on Live Evolution and Geoff sounds surprisingly good, I always wonder if there was much tempering in the studio afterwards.
I like Q2k. I think it was moving in the right direction after Hear in the Now Frontier. I've always said I would have liked to have heard what the band would have done with a second record with that lineup. People bag on Kelly (and IMO, rightfully so) for his wah pedal usage in Queensryche, but the guy is a good songwriter. I've always loved his work with Slave to the System, and to a minor extent, Brother Cane (Wishpool record). He just was a curious fit for Queensryche that didn't really sound "right."
But Q2k...got a bad rap. Before Dedicated to Crap..err...Chaos, Q2k was pretty much universally accepted by fans as the "worst" QR record. And I guess I would agree? But there are a lot of songs on it (and some that came later, such as HOWL, which is awesome) that I really loved. And I'm not ashamed to say I really enjoyed that whole era of the band. It didn't sound like classic Ryche, but I enjoyed it immensely.
Favs on Q2k (in order) - Howl (on the re-release), When the Rain Comes (such a great solo by Whip), Right Side of My Mind, Liquid Sky.
They did a good job of presenting their whole career on Live Evolution and Geoff sounds surprisingly good, I always wonder if there was much tempering in the studio afterwards.
Well, he did sound decent back then. I was at the second night of taping, and can say pretty confidently that there was fairly minimal touching up of the vocals in post-production, if any. I mean, listen to London if you doubt me. If ever there was a spot that desperately NEEDED touching up, it's the part in London right after the solo. I literally cringed at the show when he sang that and thought to myself, "I know they're going to re-do that in the studio before they release this show on disk." I was very surprised when they didn't. But what is deceptive about the vocals during that show is that they had piped in a ton of backup vocals to prop Geoff up. So although he is sing decently, it isn't all him. And that isn't post-production studio work. That is just what they piped in. I remember a few times at that show where, similar to watching the DVD afterward, Geoff did not have the mic up to his mouth, but you could hear "Geoff" singing.
I wasn't there, but I had another friend agree with you, bosk1, who was there for both shows. Very minimal vocal overdubs if any. There were background vocals being piped in, but they had been doing that the entire tour. You can clearly hear his live singing over it, it was just to beef up the overall sound. Chris' vocals were very engaged by the time HITNF rolled around, and Kelly and Ed really couldn't replicate that. So I guess they just took the backing vocal tracks and synced them up to make the vocals more powerful.
But yeah, the lead vocals were live. Geoff had some snafus for sure (London -- whoah), but overall, I thought he sounded very good.
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I'll check it out, perhaps at some point today. Working my way through Brent's podcast today.
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I too was disgusted when I bought HITN. I threw it away after one and a half listens. But I really liked Q2K. Thought there were some really good songs on that one.
Live Evolution really surprised me in a pleasant way. I especially thought the EP/Warning material sounded great on there. But it was pretty much good overall. I even liked about half of American Soldier, but it took a nosedive after that. OM:2 started off pretty good, then that went down a very steep hill as well.
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I actually had no major issues with Kelly's playing on that, although I know I am in the minority.
His rhythm playing is fine, he does have a good level of facility on the instrument and he can shred it up pretty well playing his own leads, but the problem is that he was always an awkward fit for QR. DeGarmo/Whip were a very precise, play exactly what's on the record, team, as are Jackson/Rockenfield, whereas Kelly's a looser, improvisational kinda player... which leads us to the awful Jet City Woman solo on Live Evolution that takes such a beautifully crafted solo, spoils it with mindless noodling then ends with blatant overdubbing that still manages to sound rotten. There's making a solo your own (Whip doesn't play the JCW solo exactly either) and there's missing the point of the solo altogether.
Kelly was always just at odds with the tight musicianship of the rest of the band.
Plus, I just don't like the guitar tones Gray seems to err towards. When left to his own devices Whip chooses lovely guitar tones (I assume DeGarmo was the one behind the uber-dryness of the HiTNF tone) and it's been great to hear them back in the latest two records.
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I was very surprised when they didn't. But what is deceptive about the vocals during that show is that they had piped in a ton of backup vocals to prop Geoff up. So although he is sing decently, it isn't all him. And that isn't post-production studio work. That is just what they piped in. I remember a few times at that show where, similar to watching the DVD afterward, Geoff did not have the mic up to his mouth, but you could hear "Geoff" singing.
Gotta love Geoff miming the G5s in Damaged. Yeah sure Geoff, sure that's live ::)
I do think there's some slight autotune work done at the end of My Empty Room - Geoff's voice has a really weird artificial tone to it https://youtu.be/drxkr5bZanY?t=1m6s
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I actually had no major issues with Kelly's playing on that, although I know I am in the minority.
His rhythm playing is fine, he does have a good level of facility on the instrument and he can shred it up pretty well playing his own leads, but the problem is that he was always an awkward fit for QR. DeGarmo/Whip were a very precise, play exactly what's on the record, team, as are Jackson/Rockenfield, whereas Kelly's a looser, improvisational kinda player... which leads us to the awful Jet City Woman solo on Live Evolution that takes such a beautifully crafted solo, spoils it with mindless noodling then ends with blatant overdubbing that still manages to sound rotten. There's making a solo your own (Whip doesn't play the JCW solo exactly either) and there's missing the point of the solo altogether.
Kelly was always just at odds with the tight musicianship of the rest of the band.
I agree with your general take on Kelly. But him doing his own take on the solos on Live Evolution didn't really bother me. Maybe it was just because I went in not expecting him to try to pull them off like Chris did. And funny that you mention the JCW solo and Michael. Even though Kelly really deviated in some parts, given that he couldn't pull off the cleanness and emotion that Chris put into that solo, I didn't mind his take at all. Whip, on the other hand, tries to stay fairly true to the original. But the problem for me is, he is just slightly too aggressive, slightly less precise, and slightly less emotive in the way that Chris was, to where it just sounds off to me when he plays it and I don't enjoy it. Not that he isn't a great player. He is. And not that I don't like most of his solos. I do. But that one and the Silent Lucidity solo don't really work for me. Again, I am probably in the minority on that, but for the current lineup of the band, I would much rather hear Parker give those two solos a shot than have Whip do them.
I was very surprised when they didn't. But what is deceptive about the vocals during that show is that they had piped in a ton of backup vocals to prop Geoff up. So although he is sing decently, it isn't all him. And that isn't post-production studio work. That is just what they piped in. I remember a few times at that show where, similar to watching the DVD afterward, Geoff did not have the mic up to his mouth, but you could hear "Geoff" singing.
Gotta love Geoff miming the G5s in Damaged. Yeah sure Geoff, sure that's live ::)
I do think there's some slight autotune work done at the end of My Empty Room - Geoff's voice has a really weird artificial tone to it https://youtu.be/drxkr5bZanY?t=1m6s
Honestly, I have almost no recollection of the Mindcrime material from Live Evolution. On the second night, which is when I was there, they didn't play the Mindcrime suite. And as far as listening on the disk itself, I generally either tuned out or skipped the Mindcrime songs, partly because I thought they were just "okay" and partly because I consider Livecrime to be the definitive live presentation of ANY of those songs, so any other live rendition just kinda feels second rate.
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re: JCW solo and Kelly's performance of CDG solos in general
It's funny...at the Seattle 99 gig, which was Kelly's debut (Jan. 1999), Kelly played Chris' parts very closely. I still have the gig page online from that event, even though it is not the original lineup -- https://anybodylistening.net/1-16-99.html
But looking at that set now, I see why Kelly sounded fine...because every main solo on the CDG stuff in that set is Michael, except for the trade-off one in Breaking the Silence. And after 17 years, to be honest, I can't recall just how well Kelly played Chris' part in that.
In general, Kelly just doesn't have the feel, nor the speed, to replicate Chris' style. So much so, that I don't think he even bothered to try. And at the time, if memory serves, the band said publicly that they didn't really care, as it was Kelly's gig, and he could interpret as he saw fit. Remember, Wilton didn't do then what he does now. Back then, Whip just continued to do his thing. Nowadays, he plays ALL the classic solos that are Chris' (except for the tradeoffs, obviously).
That's on purpose. I asked Wilton himself a few years back, and he was adamant that if someone is going to do them, he is. And I respect that. Even though I think Parker Lundgren is capable of doing Chris' solos just fine, and much better than Kelly Gray and Mike Stone did them, I get why Wilton has usurped control of that, and don't blame him.
But as was already stated -- Michael's style is a bit different, so the renditions, while close, are not perfect. Chris also has long fingers, whereas Michael has shorter fingers. According to guitarist friends, that makes a big difference in a lot of Chris' solos. There's just spots Chris can reach, that Michael has a harder time with, so he tweaks things slightly to compensate -- and all of us hardcores can hear it.
It's not that it's bad AT ALL. it's not. It's just very small deviations that people like us can pick up on.
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I'm not a guitar specialist, but it always came across to me that Kelly seemed to be a better fit than Stone. I saw Stone live and he was good, but maybe not the right fit for Queensryche.
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I liked Stone a lot when I saw them touring for Tribe on the DT/QR/FW tour. He brought a dark mood/vibe that I thought fit the atmosphere of the Tribe songs pretty well. But going forward, I didn't really like what he brought to the table. And that isn't a knock on his actual playing. It was more his guitar tone and, as you said, his overall "fit" with the band.
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Stone's tone was SO shrill. It was like nails on a chalkboard at the beginning. Toward the end of his run, it got better.
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Watching that Vid made me realize...There is no way JLB can be replaced, because Geoff is the voice of Queensrcyhe and Todd can't hit those low warm notes. He can do the high notes but it's more than that. Especially with Empire, that song really disappointed me live with Todd, plus they skipped the awesome middle part.
I hate to say it , but Queensryche isn't the same anymore. And the past release proves it.
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Queensryche isn't the same anymore. And the past release proves it.
I agree. In contrast to the past decade or more, they now sound AWESOME! And their singer doesn't sound like he is strangling a cat. :tup
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Watching that Vid made me realize...There is no way JLB can be replaced, because Geoff is the voice of Queensrcyhe and Todd can't hit those low warm notes. He can do the high notes but it's more than that. Especially with Empire, that song really disappointed me live with Todd, plus they skipped the awesome middle part.
I hate to say it , but Queensryche isn't the same anymore. And the past release proves it.
Geoff can't hit any of the notes. His lows are nasally and his highs are a distant memory.
Shame, he was awesome. Now he isn't.
Todd's lows aren't the best but he's excellent for the rest. And a decent bloke too it seems.
Geoff killed QR years ago.
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Watching that Vid made me realize...There is no way JLB can be replaced, because Geoff is the voice of Queensrcyhe and Todd can't hit those low warm notes. He can do the high notes but it's more than that. Especially with Empire, that song really disappointed me live with Todd, plus they skipped the awesome middle part.
I hate to say it , but Queensryche isn't the same anymore. And the past release proves it.
Queensryche is certainly DIFFERENT without Geoff, both in a good and a bad way for sure. Agreed however, that QR is much more than just hitting high notes. Todd can handle low stuff, but his voice is much thinner than Tate's, and you can hear it on anything from Mindcrime-PL (they haven't played anything other than Damaged off PL, I believe). That's not Todd's fault, it's just his voice. It is naturally thinner than Tate's, and the Mindcrime-PL music was written to that warmer tone that Geoff has (particularly Empire and PL). Todd has sounded much better over the last say nine months overall (although the Empire-PL stuff still sounds off to me). He used to try and hit all the high notes and his performances would be up and down, as he'd run out of gas. But he's seemed to find his legs and middle ground these days, and delivers a really professional performance. He hits some stuff, but keeps himself reigned in, vocally, so it can be well balanced. So he deserves credit for that. He really seems to have put some work in, or at the very least, learned how to pace himself to maintain that steady level of performance.
As for Condition Human, just like every record without Chris, things are missing from the classic sound. Even moreso now without Geoff AND Chris. But it is what Queensryche is now. I thought Condition Human sort of...to my ears it's sorta where I think Queensryche could have gone after Mindcrime, if they decided not to get as commercial as they did. It reminds me sort of like Fates Warning's Perfect Symmetry, just not as complex, musically.
But today's Queensryche, and classic, original lineup Queensryche are two very different animals, creatively. And that's going to always be the case when 2/3 of the original songwriting team is no longer in the band. Condition Human is a good record for sure. But I have a hard time comparing it to classic QR. Just not the same beast, and to me, it's unfair to compare to the original band (although the comparisons are unavoidable). Just like it's unfair to compare the "Tateryche" QR albums to classic QR or even today's QR. The different eras really have a totally different sound to them.
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I was just listening to the MTV Unplugged show from the early 90's. The band sounds excellent here, especially Geoff. It somewhat comes across as the band distancing themselves from their earlier works, as Geoff alludes to the band playing some old/obscure songs from Rage for Order (even though it was released only 6 years earlier). He asks the audience if they knew the song The Killing Words. Or it could also be that they knew their audience was Empire heavy and wouldn't know much of the older material.
Regardless, its a great show and it's a shame it was never officially released.
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Funny you mention the unplugged show. I was just watching it a few days ago.
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I remember watching the original airing. Yes, it was excellent.
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Or it could also be that they knew their audience was Empire heavy and wouldn't know much of the older material.
At the time, they could have probably advertised it on MTV as "Queensryche performs Silent Lucidity and various other songs". The band were probably very aware of the fact that most of the people in that audience were completely oblivious to anything prior to Mindcrime.
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I just noticed that Tate's Operation Mindcrime page has a link in the navigation bar to the official QR website. That surprised me: https://operationmindcrime.com/wordpress/tour/
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Hmmmm that is strange
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I could be wrong (I don't spend much time at Tater's site :lol ) but I have a feeling that's always been there and may well have been a condition of the settlement.
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I could be wrong (I don't spend much time at Tater's site :lol ) but I have a feeling that's always been there and may well have been a condition of the settlement.
Right. Pretty sure this has been pointed out before.
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Hmmm
https://youtu.be/85m-WKdRelA
Not how I remember it :lol One thing I did notice in that vid though is that , although the range isn't there , he seems to have recovered his "ear" and singing relatively in tune.
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I remember watching the original airing. Yes, it was excellent.
Think I've only heard the songs on Building Empires video. Did they do more songs than that?
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Pretty sure the original airing was like 4 songs. Not sure what Building Empires has.
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The Building Empires VHS/DVD has 2 songs from the MTV Unplugged session.
2 different versions exists though, outside the official releases:
5 song MTV Europe broadcast (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0ev2zf_GHPrYGxsPgKL2AS7) - really great copy, with stereo sound.
12 song uncut (broadcast?) (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0cmWPOejgRgv0zymRg4lU4E) - this one is a couple of generations away from the master tape, and is in mono as well. A certain collector supposedly has a 1st gen. tape with stereo sound, but refuses to share it.
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Back in the days before Dime and such (i.e., the '90s), I bought a silver disk of the entire show. It is quite good. Couldn't tell you the source, and I don't think the "liner notes" say, but I can check when I get home later.
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I was just listening to the MTV Unplugged show from the early 90's. The band sounds excellent here, especially Geoff. It somewhat comes across as the band distancing themselves from their earlier works, as Geoff alludes to the band playing some old/obscure songs from Rage for Order (even though it was released only 6 years earlier). He asks the audience if they knew the song The Killing Words. Or it could also be that they knew their audience was Empire heavy and wouldn't know much of the older material.
Regardless, its a great show and it's a shame it was never officially released.
In 1992, with the band really at an all-time high in its popularity based off of Empire, a lot of people really DIDN'T know the RFO stuff. To them, QR was Mindcrime and Empire, and "hey, what were those other songs they played on the tour?" And it was an MTV event. So yeah, you're probably right, JJ -- an Empire-heavy crowd.
Yep, it was a great show. Particularly the stuff that didn't officially air. I loved how they goofed on "Anybody Listening?" and had to re-do it, and Chris trying to get them to play Suite Sister Mary and Geoff faking bolting from the stage. :rollin Chris got his "revenge" at the end of Rockin' in the Free World, when he played a bit of SSM, and said "I like that shit a little better, honestly..." or something to that effect. ha ha ha.
Just a great performance by a band dialed in. Funny story some here might not have heard from me. Back in the...it had to have been around 2000, I remember -- it was about a year before Building Empires was released on DVD for the first time. So maybe 2001, i had someone from EMI/Atlantic/Capitol (whatever it was at the time) email me and ask me about the Building Empires footage. At the time, they had lost the master audio, so they were looking to fill in some gaps and wanted the highest grade audio they could find from bootleg collectors that had the whole show. I sent the guy the tracks he wanted. A few months down the road, he told me they ended up finding the masters in some warehouse in Canada that they owned. :lol
So I'm not surprised the full unplugged gig was never officially released on its own. It seems they likely had problems even just getting the footage and audio for the tracks on Building Empires. Great show though.
In regard to the bootleg sources, they vary. Setzer is close with his list, if not spot-on. Mine was sourced from the first gen video recording from whatever the "master" version of the bootleg of the full show was. The sound is quite good, but I do think it is mono (can't recall). I believe my audio of the full show is pulled from that, and then "stereoized" so it comes out of both speakers. These days, I don't really care as much for the lineage of a recording. If it sounds good, it sounds good. This does.
However, the collector in question did a lot for the Rychean community over the years and shared plenty of shows with hundreds of people. If it is who I think you are referring to, she shared it with me, and by accident recorded it in mono, and did that for a few people without realizing what she had done. It was only after a bunch of zealous nutjobs hounded her that she clammed up and refused to trade any further. And this was in the early 2000s as well, I believe. Maybe 1999. And to be frank, I don't blame her one bit for that. Too many people "demand" from collectors who spent years (decades in some cases) building a collection. I have a ton of stories to tell about that, let me tell ya. It's why I don't trade any longer either.
Without going too far down the rabbit hole, the one version of the audio that was highly circulated was emptyV Unplugged, which was a pull from a guy named John (not sure of the generation). He was a collector and seller of live shows in the late 1990s from around the prog circuit (QR, DT, Rush, etc.). My memory isn't as clear about that whole deal, but simply put, he got out of the "business" in a few years after selling a bunch of live QR shows. He then bought GeoffTate.com and made it into a site that slammed QR for a couple of years before Tate's attorney nailed him with a cease and desist, and John eventually gave the site over to Tate. I don't remember the details, just going from memory. But John managed to sell a bunch of those EmptyV Unplugged CDR recordings over the span of a few years, along with some other shows (Irvine 97 comes to mind, a few gigs on the Q2k tour, etc.)
As a collector, at the time, purchasing bootlegs was all the rage. There were shops all over Long Island that had silver bootlegs for sale that I picked up. I remember picking up a few from John too, including the unplugged. Obviously, as tech advanced, that whole bootleg scene died off, as the Internet made getting recordings pretty easy.
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Pretty sure the original airing was like 4 songs. Not sure what Building Empires has.
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Yeah, think I've seen four songs so have seen more than on building empires. Not watched it in years and thought there were 4 tracks on it..
Thanks for the links Setzer, will watch tonight.
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Pretty sure there were 5 tracks for the official MTV broadcast - 2 from Empire, 2 from RFO and The Lady Wore Black.
However, the collector in question did a lot for the Rychean community over the years and shared plenty of shows with hundreds of people. If it is who I think you are referring to, she shared it with me, and by accident recorded it in mono, and did that for a few people without realizing what she had done. It was only after a bunch of zealous nutjobs hounded her that she clammed up and refused to trade any further. And this was in the early 2000s as well, I believe. Maybe 1999. And to be frank, I don't blame her one bit for that. Too many people "demand" from collectors who spent years (decades in some cases) building a collection. I have a ton of stories to tell about that, let me tell ya. It's why I don't trade any longer either.
I don't know the specifics of the fan you speak of or the problems she dealt with from others "demanding" stuff from her, but the one thing I think is uncool of some bootleg collectors is to include stuff on your list that you absolutely will not trade out to anyone. If someone wants to keep a specific recording to themselves, I don't have a problem with that. But to include it on the list you post/share/whatever publicly that in reality is a forbidden fruit being dangled in front of others is not cool. Again, I don't know the specifics of what happened with this fan - it doesn't sound like that was what she did, since you say she traded it out - but if she did, then I can't completely blame the demanding fans either, altho there certainly are some fans out there that have an incredible sense of entitlement.
Without going too far down the rabbit hole, the one version of the audio that was highly circulated was emptyV Unplugged, which was a pull from a guy named John (not sure of the generation). He was a collector and seller of live shows in the late 1990s from around the prog circuit (QR, DT, Rush, etc.). My memory isn't as clear about that whole deal, but simply put, he got out of the "business" in a few years after selling a bunch of live QR shows. He then bought GeoffTate.com and made it into a site that slammed QR for a couple of years before Tate's attorney nailed him with a cease and desist, and John eventually gave the site over to Tate. I don't remember the details, just going from memory. But John managed to sell a bunch of those EmptyV Unplugged CDR recordings over the span of a few years, along with some other shows (Irvine 97 comes to mind, a few gigs on the Q2k tour, etc.)
You're speaking of one John DiBella. I bought a few releases from him to - the complete Unplugged performance and one or two others. Forgot that he pulled that stunt buying up the GeoffTate.com domain! Funny thing is he just appeared on dimeadozen recently to torrent a few DT releases.
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Pretty sure there were 5 tracks for the official MTV broadcast - 2 from Empire, 2 from RFO and The Lady Wore Black.
Correct. Silent Lucidity, Della Brown, The Killing Words, I Will Remember, The Lady Wore Black.
I don't know the specifics of the fan you speak of or the problems she dealt with from others "demanding" stuff from her, but the one thing I think is uncool of some bootleg collectors is to include stuff on your list that you absolutely will not trade out to anyone. If someone wants to keep a specific recording to themselves, I don't have a problem with that. But to include it on the list you post/share/whatever publicly that in reality is a forbidden fruit being dangled in front of others is not cool. Again, I don't know the specifics of what happened with this fan - it doesn't sound like that was what she did, since you say she traded it out - but if she did, then I can't completely blame the demanding fans either, altho there certainly are some fans out there that have an incredible sense of entitlement.
I agree. That's why by the time I stopped trading in 2008, I had two lists just for that purpose -- one I sent out of what was available for trade, and one that I kept to just keep track of everything. Although as I am sure you can attest to, Scotty, I always used to receive the "I know you have more, stop holding out on me,"emails. That sense of entitlement you speak of is huge. Queensryche really isn't a band in high demand any longer, but when they were, it was crazy.
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Just watched the whole Unplugged set and enjoyed it but now I'm on a downer because I just realised how much I miss CDG in my life.
Seems a genuine nice guy. I'd sit and have quiet beer with him.
And it's always good to get a reminder that Tate wasn't always a cock.
Now replaying loads of CdG songs.
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Holy cow. Geoff Tate performed an acoustic show two nights in Patchogue, NY, (just five minutes from me) and I had no idea. That's so close to me, I probably would've checked it out. I'm curious what kind of crowds he's bringing in for these shows, especially considering the various "QR reunion" comments he's been making in recent interviews.
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Mike,
A couple hundred people, according to a friend that went to his DC-area stop. I know a few of the venues he's playing at. All are about the same. 200 people. Bars and nightclubs. To give you an idea -- when Tate played here where I live with Operation: Mindcrime on its last tour (in support of The Key) they played the same venue Queensryche just played with Armored Saint and Midnight Eternal in November. That place has a capacity of 850.
Where Tate is playing under his own name, acoustically, is a converted hamburger restaurant, which is now billed as a "country bar." I was there when it was a hamburger joint (good stuff). The way it is partitioned, you walk in, and straight ahead is the stage, with a bar on the right wall, and tables and chairs in the middle. But if you make a sharp right when you walk in the door, it leads to a bigger dining area. That area is actually cut off from the performer, so Tate will be playing to half the place. His booking agent probably doesn't realize that. So my guess is, he'll probably have an audience of 100-150.
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So my guess is, he'll probably have an audience of 100-150.
You're assuming 100-150 people want to see an acoustic Geoff Tate show.
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Has there been any talk about QR going back to the studio for a new album?
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Has there been any talk about QR going back to the studio for a new album?
Yes :)
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So my guess is, he'll probably have an audience of 100-150.
You're assuming 100-150 people want to see an acoustic Geoff Tate show.
He still draws up to a couple hundred by himself at these bars, if the pictures are any indication. To be honest, I think Operation: Mindcrime (the band) and Queensryche both draw similarly (to each other) -- about 500-1000, depending on the venue and market. They both played the same place here on their respective last tour legs. Both were heavily Grouponed (meaning both had a lot of people attending through Groupon deals), and the turnout (from me being at the QR one, and seeing pics of the OPM one) looked the same. Queensryche also had Armored Saint in tow, which helped them, because Saint had a good 100 or so people in the crowd primarily to see them (myself included).
It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out when each band releases their next records. I have a feeling Queensryche will maintain the same sort of billings (no growth, but maintain), while I feel OPM will likely slide a little further, if that third record from OPM gets released at all (I have my doubts on that -- Frontiers puts out a lot of stuff, but the last one did not move the needle at all).
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I never heard what the latest O:M album sold; I'm going to guess it was quite low. I would wager that the third one will still get released in some capacity just to complete the trilogy.
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I never heard what the latest O:M album sold; I'm going to guess it was quite low. I would wager that the third one will still get released in some capacity just to complete the trilogy.
I didn't either. I think I remember first week unit numbers being released, but don't recall what they were, and it was dead silent after that. You're probably right on the third record being released at some point. I just wonder what Tate's deal with Frontiers was. I don't imagine he would have signed it if Frontiers has the option of not releasing the third record.
I'm curious to see where he goes now with his career after this. He's playing bars under his own name, and I expect under his "band" name, he'll be playing tinier clubs on the next tour. These tours can't be profitable. There's no way. And if the tours aren't making money, and his records are not selling, no wonder Tate has been focusing on answering those Queensryche reunion questions.
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I think the Queensryche reunion articles are the only items that generate any interest from Tate right now. As mentioned before, it would be ideal for Tate at this point to disappear for awhile and revamp himself. But he just doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would go away from the spotlight at all.
I can't see the Operation Mindcrime band lasting. I would say in the long run, he would have more chance of success just going out as a solo artist.
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I can't see the Operation Mindcrime band lasting. I would say in the long run, he would have more chance of success just going out as a solo artist.
I don't either. I think the problem he encountered in 2002, and again now, 15 years later, is that his name, by itself, doesn't hold a lot of water for promoters and the industry as that solo artist. His 2002 solo album was completely in another direction, which was, I believe, what he truly wanted to do, music-wise. But instead of slugging it out then, and leaving QR to pursue that, there was the carrot of the QR reunion with DeGarmo. And when that fizzled out after a handful of songs, Tate usurped control of Queensryche until his ouster in 2012.
If we rewind to 2002-2003, things could have been different for Tate. This is where I think he erred. When Queensryche canceled the shows in Japan they had booked in fall 2001 (due to 9-11), if my memory serves (and not sure, but could be in court docs from the lawsuit), they got sued or owed money to Japanese promoters. That comes into play later, if I remember right. They did Tribe, and it fizzled because DeGarmo didn't join back up. So they had a flop of a record, but owed these promoters from Japan, which again, if I remember right, was also a factor in deciding to do MC II, because of the monetary advance for that record. I'm assuming that was used partially to pay off that canceled Japanese tour dates from 2001.
But had Tate, after Tribe fizzled, elected to leave right there, and go do another solo record, and just slug it out in the clubs for a while, I think he would have at least established himself as a solo artist, using QR songs, and songs from his first solo record (and the non-existent second one in this fake scenario). Over time, as hard rock got big again in the mid-to-late 2000s, he might have found more solid footing performing Queensryche songs, assuming that Queensryche would have made the choice then (saying in 2003) to fold (remember, the side projects Slave to the System and Soulbender were also on the agenda for other members then).
Instead, things played out as they did. I mean, financially, I guess Tate made the right call at the time, as the money from touring Queensryche, even after paying off that Japanese thing, was really good. He made Queensryche (as we discussed for years) essentially his touring band, as some of us called it, Tateryche. Then we know what happened after that went too far.
But had Tate gone the other way, and simply left on his own accord after Tribe, and QR folded, I think his career as a solo artist would have been a lot more established and profitable in the long run, particularly now. I remember his band's renditions of QR songs being pretty entertaining (spOOL, Della Brown, Thin Line, etc.).
Now, however, I'm not sure he has much of a future unless a reunion happens. And I just don't see that likely unless it is the FULL Queensryche, and the money is there for that sort of reunion. And as some have pointed out, while I know it was there in the early 2000s, and again after Mindcrime II, it likely isn't there now (from promoters for a full reunited Queensryche) given all that went down.
So where Tate goes in the next couple of years, I don't know. I can't see him still touring with this acoustic ensemble. It can't be profitable. Maybe he starts offering himself up for more voice over work and guest spots for cash on other albums?
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Even if he had gone full solo back then, I'm not sure if it would have worked out for him. His solo stuff was very different from what QR fans (and maybe general progressive rock/metal fans) expected and I think nobody outside of that kind of people knew who Geoff Tate was and had any kind of interest in him.
Maybe if QR had disbanded and Tate's solo band would have been the only one to perform QR songs live he could have drawn a decent crowd, but probably not with his own songs. And you have to wonder if he would have taken better care of his voice so that he could do those songs justice, I highly doubt that.
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I've never listened to his first solo album in its entirety, but I've heard samples. It was definitely not my thing, but I'm sure if he would have continued with that sound, he could have built a good fan base.
It was a complete departure from metal and rock, but from what I remember it was kind of a jazzy pop rock sound. There is definitely a market for that, but Geoff would have had to decide to go all in with that sound and build a following. But to just make one album of that music, there is no way you'll be successful. I wasn't following any reviews at the time but I can only assume it turned off the QR and metal fans and he wasn't dedicated enough to make further albums with that sound to get new fans.
But I'm sure there are lots of people who enjoy that solo album. I just know it wouldn't be my cup of tea
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Even if he had gone full solo back then, I'm not sure if it would have worked out for him. His solo stuff was very different from what QR fans (and maybe general progressive rock/metal fans) expected and I think nobody outside of that kind of people knew who Geoff Tate was and had any kind of interest in him.
Maybe if QR had disbanded and Tate's solo band would have been the only one to perform QR songs live he could have drawn a decent crowd, but probably not with his own songs. And you have to wonder if he would have taken better care of his voice so that he could do those songs justice, I highly doubt that.
Kwyjibo -- that's a really good point. It WAS eclectic. There were a handful of cuts at the end of the record that sounded QR-ish, such as Off the TV and Over Me. But you're spot-on.
In regard to your hypothetical, nah, Tate wouldn't have been the only one. Slave to the System (Scott Rock) played a QR track on their tour (can't recall which one at the moment) and I believe Soulbender (Wilton) played a couple as well in the limited shows they did. I was at the debut Tate show in 2001 at the Catwalk in Seattle, and then went to his first solo show on the album tour in 2002 (that had Soulbender opening the first gig) at the EMP in Seattle. But I think in the scenario you describe, Tate would have had the bigger chance at success, particularly (if your hypothetical played out) if he had geared a second solo record to follow his first that was more in the QR vein at the time.
I've never listened to his first solo album in its entirety, but I've heard samples. It was definitely not my thing, but I'm sure if he would have continued with that sound, he could have built a good fan base.
It had its moments. The songs that stuck with me the most over the years was a tune called Helpless, the single Off the TV (which was QR ish), Over Me, and then a song called "A Passenger." "Flood," which I think was the lead track, was also pretty good. But it was certainly a departure.
It was a complete departure from metal and rock, but from what I remember it was kind of a jazzy pop rock sound. There is definitely a market for that, but Geoff would have had to decide to go all in with that sound and build a following. But to just make one album of that music, there is no way you'll be successful. I wasn't following any reviews at the time but I can only assume it turned off the QR and metal fans and he wasn't dedicated enough to make further albums with that sound to get new fans.
But I'm sure there are lots of people who enjoy that solo album. I just know it wouldn't be my cup of tea
You're right on the album description. I listened to it for the first time in years about a month ago. As mentioned above, I was at Tate's first two solo shows. And while the material was different, and the majority of the fans there were hardcores, it was received well. If memory serves, that summer tour was pretty well attended too. Tate did a good job (and his band) of mixing in those solo tracks with QR material that was off the beaten path a bit, and it worked.
I don't remember the reviews of the record itself, but the major point I DO remember was that people thought it was decent, but a bit TOO different. I wasn't the biggest fan at the time. Like now, I thought it was OK, and had some good moments. But there were some head scratching moments as well. As a metal fan, I much preferred Soulbender, honestly.
It's funny, on Tate's current solo tour, which is being billed as the "Whole Ryche Story," acoustic (although he is playing a limited amount of non Ryche stuff), I figured he'd pull out a song or two from that first solo record. He hasn't. The only non-QR songs are The Fight (from his Operation: Mindcrime band), and a cover tune. But I guess doing a 95 percent QR set acoustic is the lure for the tour, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
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I never cared for the first solo album. Not that there was anything "wrong" with it. It just didn't jibe with my interests. I was actually hoping to hear his voice paired with something MORE metal than Queensryche. I mean, that wasn't realistic, but I didn't really know it at the time. I can't remember whether back then he had already gone on record as saying he didn't love metal all that much. But I remember that when he first said it, whenever that was, I kinda blew it off. For me, Tate's influences and tastes in music didn't really start to become obvious to me until the covers album and what followed (Cabaret, D2C...). But anyhow, my point is simply that I didn't care for the first solo album. I still have it, but haven't listened in years and don't really have any desire to. And that's fine.
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I went to see Geoff Tate’s acoustic tour the other night. He was playing mostly old Queensryche songs that were re-arranged a bit, with a violinist instead of a bassist, two acoustic guitars, and a percussionist. Knowing the setlist ahead of time, I knew there were a handful of songs Queensryche would likely never play again, so I wanted to check it out.
I’m very glad I did. The gig was fun, Tate sounded good, and the re-arrangements were interesting to listen to and performed well. Of note for me personally were the performances of songs from Promised Land (“Out of Mind,” “Bridge”), Hear in the Now Frontier (“Some People Fly,” “Chasing Blue Sky”), and Tribe (“Blood”). Tate also did something from every record Queensryche released from 1983-2011, a song from his Operation: Mindcrime project, and a Dropkick Murphys cover.
Song-wise, my personal highlight surprised the hell out of me -- “Blood.” The violinist added an aggressive solo bit to the end of the song that ratcheted up the energy and quite honestly brought the house down. The song went over well and the band received a nice ovation. But it was the narrative change about the tune’s lyrics that enabled me to enjoy it so much.
This was a bit of storyteller show, so Tate introduced “Blood” by saying “I’m not a political man” (which made me laugh a little) and described his recent travels to a foreign country where he saw how oppressed a group of refugees was, including a child being too afraid to take the coat Tate was offering him. He said that examples of incidents like that helped inspire the song. When “Blood” was released in 2003, however, Tate used the tune to finger-point at President George W. Bush regarding 9-11. So, the pivot Tate made on the tune’s meaning to him now, 14 years later, helped me get into it, despite its origins.
Another highlight was Tate’s cover of “The Fight” from Operation: Mindcrime’s last record, Resurrection. While I didn't really care for the record, I did like this particular song. The acoustic backdrop made the already big chorus resonate even further for me. I recorded videos of the songs I mentioned above, but I regret not capturing “The Fight,” because it was that good.
The show wasn’t all about obscure material, however. Tate made sure to do the fan favorites, performing renditions of Queensryche’s “Walk in the Shadows,” (which opened the show) “Another Rainy Night,” “Silent Lucidity,” “I Don’t Believe in Love,” “Eyes of a Stranger,” "The Lady Wore Black," and “Take Hold of the Flame.” They sounded different, of course, but the songs were performed well.
Tate sounds much better over acoustic instrumentation these days. His voice was powerful and has retained a richness to its tone that still makes it captivating, despite losing a lot of his higher range. And that’s not to say he didn’t display some range – he most certainly did, and picked a few spots to show he can still get higher if he needed to.
I don't want to focus on negatives moving forward, but a comparison is called for when talking about Queensryche-Tate stuff. La Torre has done a fine job with Queensryche, and on the Condition Human tour, really put on what I'd call "professional performances," meaning, he has learned the limitations of his voice and delivers a much more consistent performances each night. He has higher range than Tate these days, and La Torre now picks his spots better. So if you want to see the wails, La Torre makes sure to do them. And he should get a lot of credit for whatever work he's done to be as consistent as he has been over the last year. :tup Tate, on the other hand, has a much warmer tone, and a fullness to his voice that is just unmistakable. After seeing him now for the first time in eight years, it was very, very clear to my ears how distinct he was with Queensryche, even in the latter years. There's a reason why Tate was so lauded over his career, and it's not just for the high notes. So if you're a Queensryche fan, and aren't stuck in the "no Tate, no QR," or "QR is superior to Tate" mentality, I think both will provide you with some good ear candy, depending on what is being played, and what your expectations are. Go and enjoy.
Getting back to the Tate gig, what stood out to me was how comfortable Tate looked on stage, in comparison to the final few years with Queensryche. He poked fun at the 1980s, at himself, smiled a lot and just seemed to enjoy himself. He even said how much he’s had fun on the current tour. At one point, he sped his voice up so much cracking jokes in-between songs, I could have sworn he was on speed. Ha ha ha. But it was all in good fun. The stories he told about many of the songs were obviously scripted, but there was a looseness to his vibe that was nice to see. All of it contributed to a good performance.
One of those stories stood out, and I’ll be adding it to AnybodyListening.net at some point. He recalled how as a child, his mom (who was a single mother at the time), took Tate to work all the time at a mental facility. While that sort of practice likely wouldn’t be permitted today (for obvious reasons), it provided a good basis for writing “Out of Mind.” He recalled that during the Promised Land sessions, he told Chris DeGarmo about it, and DeGarmo came back the next day with a song fully written, music and lyrics, based on Tate’s observations in that mental facility. He also told a very interesting tale about how the insertion of a harmonica solo in “Chasing Blue Sky” came about, which had the crowd laughing.
Overall, I had a good time. The crowd was very small (the venue is a converted hamburger restaurant), numbering about 70ish at its peak during “Silent Lucidity,” but mostly hovering in the 40s. Capacity for the stage-area portion of the place is probably 200. So, Tate didn’t draw very well at all. But to their credit, Tate and his band didn’t play like it was a tiny audience. It was an energetic performance, and if you’ve been on the fence about seeing Tate again, I’d encourage going, particularly if you like the setlist he's doing. The tour runs through April 15, in Toronto, before picking up again in late August according to his Facebook page.
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The songs I listened to weren't bad. And I agree with your comments about his voice.
About the vignettes and background about songs...a lot of that sounds really cool. The problem I have is that the man has proven to be so unabashedly dishonest about so many things over so long a period of time that for any given story, I find myself thinking, "That's pretty cool...IF it happened. And I don't have a high degree of confidence that it did, at least in the manner he is describing." I question even the stories about the child in another country or the backstory that supposedly inspired Out of Mind. Those are great stories. But did they really happen? And if they did, did things really unfold the way he is telling them now? I have no idea. I mean, there are plenty of stories through the years about Tate doing some REALLY cool, unselfish things for people that are corroborated by others. And there are plenty of cool stories about him having some cool, unique experiences that are corroborated. But I can't help but doubt anything that comes out of his mouth, and that's a shame because it distracts me from being able to enjoy what he is doing.
What you said about Blood is really interesting as well. I'll give it a listen. I really hated that song though. Excluding songs from D2C, which I have no specific recollection of because I listened to the album a grand total of once just so I could say I did, Blood is easily my personal "worst" song Queensyrche has ever done. Part of it is the lyrical content. But part of it is that I just don't like the song anyway. But as far as the topic, it's funny how music is. Sometimes, we can overlook things that bother us. Sometimes we can't. And it's so subjective sometimes. I know you and I have discussed a certain modern Queensryche song that is a huge turnoff for you because of the content. But while that bothers me, I easily look past it and still love the song. Similar with, say, I'm American. I know what Tate was doing there. But it's still kind of a cool tune, and I ignore the baggage and enjoy it. With Blood, you are able to ignore the baggage and get into it, while it bothers me to the point that my initial reaction to even checking out this alternative version is one of reluctance. But I will give it a shot.
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I never cared for the first solo album. Not that there was anything "wrong" with it. It just didn't jibe with my interests. I was actually hoping to hear his voice paired with something MORE metal than Queensryche. I mean, that wasn't realistic, but I didn't really know it at the time. I can't remember whether back then he had already gone on record as saying he didn't love metal all that much. But I remember that when he first said it, whenever that was, I kinda blew it off. For me, Tate's influences and tastes in music didn't really start to become obvious to me until the covers album and what followed (Cabaret, D2C...). But anyhow, my point is simply that I didn't care for the first solo album. I still have it, but haven't listened in years and don't really have any desire to. And that's fine.
I was excited when it came out but a couple of songs in it dawned on me that it was shit. Think I've only listened to it twice. I wasn't expecting a metal album but was expecting some interesting songs paired with that once great voice. They weren't there for me.
I wouldn't mi d seeing this acoustic show - sounds interesting,especially if his voice is ok. I have a hard time associating the intelligent guy from earlier in his career to the arse he became in the new millennium.
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I saw the show as well, very glad I went. I think the only album he skipped was OM2. Great selection and he sounded very good. I think he really does seemed to be a changed man, he mentioned in an interview on Youtube about that a bad place he was in during and right after the break up. I of course don't have the link. :)
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Good to hear that it is an enjoyable show. And good to hear about his voice. The complete range is probably gone forever, and it is what it is, but what I didn't understand was that nasally whiny singing he did for some time, that annoyed the hell outta me. If he quit that I'm sure he sounds good.
And the acoustic setting probably helps, but 40 people? That's a shame, every bad amateur band draws that and more. Must be really a humbling experience for him.
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I think he is trying to make up for the small gigs by charging $50 for the meet and greet. I like what Living Colour does, because it is a small venue they go out and meet the fans and take pictures and sign cd's and other things. I think that helps build a fan base because it builds loyalty.
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Good to hear that it is an enjoyable show. And good to hear about his voice. The complete range is probably gone forever, and it is what it is, but what I didn't understand was that nasally whiny singing he did for some time, that annoyed the hell outta me. If he quit that I'm sure he sounds good.
And the acoustic setting probably helps, but 40 people? That's a shame, every bad amateur band draws that and more. Must be really a humbling experience for him.
I was watching one of the shows on YouTube last night. Tate sounded good, certainly better than the last few years in QR. That nasally whine was awful. The rerecord on his FU album were laughable.
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I think he did a show real recently here in the Austin TX area. Tickets were, if I recall absurdly expensive given who it was. ($36 dollars at the door)
I didn't go.
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AnybodyListening.net, I really enjoyed reading some of the court hearing PDF's on your site. I mainly just read Geoff's and Scott's so far, but interesting.
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AnybodyListening.net, I really enjoyed reading some of the court hearing PDF's on your site. I mainly just read Geoff's and Scott's so far, but interesting.
Call him Anybody for short. :D
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I think he did a show real recently here in the Austin TX area. Tickets were, if I recall absurdly expensive given who it was. ($36 dollars at the door)
I didn't go.
Tix here were 26 and change after processing fees.
AnybodyListening.net, I really enjoyed reading some of the court hearing PDF's on your site. I mainly just read Geoff's and Scott's so far, but interesting.
Hey Bill. Thanks for checking the site out. :) Just call me Brian.
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Sounds good Brian. Just call me 1971. :)
The show near me ticket price was $25 plus fees. However since the venue was close, they said if I paid for the tickets in cash they would waive the fees. I was not up for paying $50 for the meet and greet though.
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Tix here were 26 and change after processing fees.
I wonder why they were more here.
https://www.ticketfly.com/event/1397581-geoff-tate-whole-story-austin/
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Tix here were 26 and change after processing fees.
I wonder why they were more here.
https://www.ticketfly.com/event/1397581-geoff-tate-whole-story-austin/
The venue is a very relatively new venue in a very popular area in Austin (right below the ACL/Moody Theater) where the ACL shows are taped for broadcast. I'm assuming the venue rental fee is a bit higher than others.
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Here's a YouTube playlist with some of the Tate show I went to:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJI-MjWF9aD8n1lM7oTqQe-tzQw3ixTaX
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Whether its just the acoustic setting or not, Tate is sounding better then he has recently. That's a cool set list.
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I gotta say it's a shame you're all missing out on the Irish boys he travelled with through Europe. Those boys had a hell of an energy!
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I have to say that CH is aging very well for me. Great album and the call backs are actually really cool. Don't mind them at all. It's a true to form Queensryche album. Never get tired of these songs.
:tup
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Scott's wife just had their baby boy Rockson. Rockson Rockenfield?
So Cassy Grillo (KAMELOT) is subbing in for him so he can have some baby duty.
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Rockson Rockenfield? WTF?
Is Eddie Jackson's kid named Jackfield?
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And Wilson Wilton?
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Tater Tate.
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Tater Tate.
:mehlin
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Poor kid. That name is...unfortunate...
Interesting news about Casey Grillo. He'll do a good job. I'm not a Kamelot fan, but he's a good drummer, and he's also done the drums for the new Pamela Moore record coming out later this year. I wonder if Casey stepping in for Rockenfield will ultimately be a more permanent thing in the future, however. Not really sure of Scott's situation, but Queensryche is only playing eight (8) shows in April and May. All just fly-in gigs, mostly at casinos. Those of us who have kids know it is nice to spend time at home with them, but eight gigs isn't that much in two months, and Queensryche usually plays a pretty static setlist for stuff like this. Not much rehearsal either.
It's sort of strange Scott would want "paternity" leave for a bit, when Queensryche isn't very active (they ramp up in June for festivals). Although then again, maybe that's the perfect time to do it. So who knows. And there's no note of when he might return, either. I remember in the past, Scott seemed to be looking to get away from Queensryche (they had to pull him off the road with Slave to the System back in 2006 for Mindcrime II), he was always not looking forward to long stretches on the road, and he seemed to really be pushing forward on his soundtrack/movie/TV/video game scoring career before the 2012 blowup. I guess time will tell if there's more to it other than a temporary break.
Anyway, just like it was strange not seeing Chris, and not seeing Geoff, it'll be equally as weird seeing someone else behind the kit. Scott has a very distinct feel in his playing, which I think most musicians would agree. No one Tate has playing drums could really replicate it well. Most people at casino gigs probably won't notice the subtle differences, but it'll certainly have an impact on the band's sound.
Good luck to them. Should be cool for Casey to play with a band he's like for so many years. :tup
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Good luck to them. Should be cool for Casey to play with a band he's like for so many years. :tup
Casey's a super cool dude. He'll fit in well and do a fine job. :)
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Shifting gears a bit, here's a bit I wrote up the last few days on the Q2k era. Been finding some renewed appreciation for that short-lived period lately. I know the below is long, but if you get through it, what are your recollections of Q2k, and feelings toward it now?
The Love/Hate Relationship with Queensryche’s Q2k Era
Back in 1998, Queensryche fans found out Chris DeGarmo had left the band and was being replaced with Kelly Gray, Geoff Tate’s former bandmate in MYTH. There were a lot of rumors about Kelly back then, dominated mostly by the rumor that back in the day he was a big Richie Blackmore clone (he wasn’t with Queensryche), and he had worked with Candlebox and Dokken as a producer.
At the time, I was pretty naďve to just how significant a role DeGarmo had in shaping Queensryche’s sound. All I knew was it was a big hit to the band, and I wanted to see them continue. So I supported the change whole heartedly. Queensryche announced a “fan club members only” show for Jan. 16, 1999 at NAF Studios in Seattle. When I got there, it was clearly just a big rehearsal space, but decorated with the “crowd” artwork found on the Operation: Mindcrime artwork, and the “show area was surrounded by chain link fence, if memory serves. The backdrop behind Scott Rockenfield’s kit was a large Empire-era tri-ryche. Anyway, suffice it to say, it was a pretty cool setting for an “intimate” gig, introducing Kelly Gray.
I got up close to the stage, and was front row between Geoff, Ed, and Michael (Whip hadn’t switched over yet to stage left, he was still stage right). Kelly had stage left to himself. This was the closest I had ever been seeing the band (my seats for the Promised Land and Hear in the Now Frontier tours were about 10 rows back, and the venues were amphitheaters, so there was a pretty big gap), so naturally, I was pretty excited as they started with two of my all-time favorites, “Empire,” and “Breaking the Silence.” I remember paying close attention to Kelly during “BTS,” to see how he played Chris’ part in the solo, and he seemed to pull it off without a problem to me. He seemed to fit right in.
Next they played “Breakdown Room,” which was later shortened to “Breakdown.” My first reaction to it was “wow, that was really heavy,” and I really liked the raw aggression. Queensryche then played another all-time favorite, “Damaged,” so as a fan, I was pretty pleased that I took the chance of flying 3,000 miles in a horrendous snowstorm (my flight was the last one out of NYC the day I had left) to see the show. After that, the band spliced in a bunch of new tunes (“One,” later called “One Life;” “Right Side,” later called “Right Side of My Mind;” “Sacred Ground;” and “Burning Man”) with “Spreading the Disease,” “Speak,” and “The Needle Lies.” The aforementioned “Burning Man” closed out the hour-long set.
I walked away thinking Queensryche was in great hands. The new songs seemed modern, but still Queensryche, and heavier, which appealed to me. The record, which would be called Q2k, wouldn’t come out for another eight months, but with KISW having played three demos from it (“Breakdown Room,” “Liquid Sky,” and I think “Sacred Ground”) that my buddies and I had on a cassette tape, our appetites were whet, and we were content until the release.
Once Sept. 14, 1999 rolled around, like many, I was ecstatic for the new Queensryche record. I liked it and remember liking it much more on first listen than Hear in the Now Frontier (which I’ve since grown to appreciate much more). Friends and I booked a bunch of trips over the span of the next two years to see Queensryche live. I saw the band 10 times from 1999-2001, spanning seven states. It was a great time and I have a ton of wonderful memories from it.
But as those two years wound down, I found myself really starting to sour on Q2k. The songs (on the record) didn’t quite have the same energy, and weren’t as intricate as the rest of the catalog. I’m sure the oversaturation of seeing Queensryche live didn’t help, but a lot of it was me starting to understand just how integral DeGarmo was to Queensryche’s sound. Yes, every record advanced, but all of them had this common stylistic thread, which Q2k abandoned, as Gray became the pseudo-DeGarmo. It wasn’t “bad” at all, but it certainly (thinking back to what I felt near the end of 2001) wasn’t really the Queensryche I remembered, either.
I still had favorites from the album, particularly “Liquid Sky” and the ballad “When the Rain Comes…” which features a really soulful guitar solo by Wilton. I even did an interview with Gray in June 2001 where he talked about other songs the band had written in various stages, including “I Howl” (later released as “Howl”), “Discipline,” and “Monologue,” and was looking forward to at some point hearing them (he indicated some might be resurrected). But after all the drama of Gray’s escapades on the road, and the toll it took on the band (read the liner notes to the 2006 expanded edition of Q2k), I was pretty much done with the record and Kelly Gray era.
Fast-forward to 2006, and past the failed reunion with DeGarmo (which in my opinion, gave us six pretty cool Tribe-era tunes that DeGarmo and the band worked on that linked the band back to the HITNF era but progressed forward), and that expanded edition of Q2k dropped into my hands. It had what would become my favorite tune of the Kelly Gray era, “Howl,” which had some nice Tate vocals, and a real aggressive, driving feel to it.
For years, I’ve always said I would have liked to have heard what a second Queensryche record with Gray would have sounded like. We didn’t get that chance, but I’ve sort of made peace with Q2k over the years and appreciate it as an album. I’ve pretty much settled in the “it’s a good record that got a bad rap because it’s not a good Queensryche album” category.
For me, and my listening habits, I really enjoy the album format, and listening to bands evolve from record to record. When I finally understood in the early 2000s just how the songwriting process worked with Queensryche, I came to appreciate DeGarmo much, much more. I always did, but until about 2000, I didn’t have enough exposure with bands and songwriting to understand just how key he was in shaping Queensryche’s sound.
In reality, at least for me now in retrospect, Q2k was the start of a new band. Yeah, it had four of the same guys, but since DeGarmo really was the “songwriter” of the band (with Wilton as well, but Wilton was more of a writer and co-writer on material pre-Promised Land) who came up with the cool chord progressions, phrasings, harmonies, and worked with Tate on vocal melodies, the essence of what made Queensryche be “Queensryche,” was gone. Queensryche, as I have always believed, was very much a sum of its collective parts. Without one of them, it really affects the overall sound. Like I said, I just didn't comprehend that until later.
And the new band, “Queensryche 2k” just didn’t go in similar directions, sonically, in Queensryche's evolution. It didn't follow a natural path to my ears. It was a stop and restart in a different direction. In fact, it was really void of much in common with the QR back catalog. There was no common thread musically linking Q2k to the rest of the catalog (unlike the EP-HITNF) except for four guys playing on it.
Nowadays, I really find myself appreciating the Q2k album, and the Live Evolution double CD show that caps off that era. Appreciating music for music, I really like Q2k for what it is – moody hard rock with a bit of attitude to it. There’s nothing else like it in my music collection, honestly. Nothing Queensryche did before or since sounds like it to my ears, really except for a little bit of American Soldier, which is to be expected, since Kelly wrote some of that. Even Tate’s version of “Queensryche” (that was a debacle) and the F.U. record really didn’t have anywhere close to that Q2k sound.
So here’s to the misunderstood and dare I say under-appreciated Q2k. Does anyone else find some enjoyment of this one? My favorites from this era (let me go top-5 of the 13 total songs from record’s two releases) are:
1. Howl
2. When the Rain Comes…
3. Liquid Sky
4. Right Side of My Mind
5. Falling Down
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I dropped Queensryche like a hot potato after HITNF and have barely listened to a full album from there up until Todd. I did listen to OM II (not impressed) but only in preparation for the tour where they played 1 & 2 back to back. It was good preparation as I had an extended McDonalds break and came back for the encore :lol Interesting read though - might give Q2K a listen today and see what's what.
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It's been several years since I've tried to listen to Q2K. Every time that I've tried to listen to it, it turned me off so much that I struggle to finish out the album. In fact, I only have vague memories of any of the songs. To the point that I couldn't tell you anything specifically about any of them now.
I seen the band headline on this tour at The Newport in Columbus, Ohio. My biggest memories of the show are being hugely disappointed in KG, and some skinheads that must have wondered in off the street and started a fight with this hispanic kid that was just trying to enjoy the show and mind his own business. We did wait out in the alley after the show, and got to meet Eddie and Michael.
I don't know any of the history that you hinted at of KG having issues on the road. Can you point me in the direction of anything online that I could read about this?
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ive never been a big fan of QR but I was listening to dredg today and I remember seeing them live and Gavin the lead singer was talking about a few songs Chris DeGarmo helped write on their album. The few QR songs I really like Chris seemed to have his hands on.
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PoweSlave - Tate wrote about it briefly in the Q2k reissue liner notes. I quoted it here: https://www.anybodylistening.net/epilogue.html
As for Q2k, give the favorites i listened a try. Also, Burning Man is popular, albeit a bit simplistic lyrically.
Reaper, yes, Chris co wrote a couple tunes on dredg's Catch Without Arms album, if I remember right.
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Just started on Q2K - struggling with the first couple of tracks already but will persist :angel: It did bring memories flooding back of the first time I played HITNF -not only the songs but the different delivery/tone from Geoff. Not diabolical but where is the band I loved? :'(
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So I was listening to the 2006 Remaster with all 13 tracks .
From the first 6 tracks I thought When The Rain Comes and Beside You had some redeeming qualities but still - nothing I really want to hear again in those six.
Liquid Sky had a cool dark vibe and was one of the more catchy tunes - probably as good or better anything on HITNF. Not great but would be happy enough to have it in a mix.
Breakdown, Burning Man . Until There Was You and Wot Kinda Man ........meh. Wot Kinda Man has a decent groove I suppose.
Right Side Of My Mind harks back to the Promised Land era - not an album I love either (aside from One More Time) but I like it a damn side more than what followed. Nice song - probably the only one from the album I recall playing/hearing before.
I didn't really get into Howl - I liked the instrumental midsection but the rest didn't really grab me. Better than most of the album though.
End result - a rating of 65 % (about the same as HITNF) and 2 or 3 songs I wouldn't mind hearing again.
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I've never heard Howl. Whoever holds the copyright to it is dedicated to keeping it off YouTube and there's no way in hell I'm buying Q2k twice - it was a waste of money the first time round.
There's two songs on it I like, When The Rain Comes and The Right Side Of My Mind, and I like the intro to Burning Man, after which it meanders into the same mediocrity that infects the rest of the album. Everything else on Q2k is worthless as far as I'm concerned.
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I found personally Q2K has three very good songs and one excellent song. "Falling Down", "Liquid Sky" and "Breakdown" are the very good ones, and "Right Side of My Mind" is the excellent one.
All the other songs are pretty much filler that range from meh-decent, but nothing that I really have much interest in hearing.
But I mentioned a few pages back that Live Evolution gives the Q2K songs a big kick in the ass. So maybe with a better production or a harder edge, I would like Q2K better. It's still light years better than DTC.
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It's still light years better than DTC.
............as is everything
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It's still light years better than DTC.
............as is everything
I would rather listen to mosquito's buzz in my ear for an hour then listen to DTC.
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Q2K has always just been a generic rock album for me. It isn't a bad album but there is very little on it that makes me want to spin it.
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So I was listening to the 2006 Remaster with all 13 tracks .
From the first 6 tracks I thought When The Rain Comes and Beside You had some redeeming qualities but still - nothing I really want to hear again in those six.
Liquid Sky had a cool dark vibe and was one of the more catchy tunes - probably as good or better anything on HITNF. Not great but would be happy enough to have it in a mix.
Breakdown, Burning Man . Until There Was You and Wot Kinda Man ........meh. Wot Kinda Man has a decent groove I suppose.
Right Side Of My Mind harks back to the Promised Land era - not an album I love either (aside from One More Time) but I like it a damn side more than what followed. Nice song - probably the only one from the album I recall playing/hearing before.
I didn't really get into Howl - I liked the instrumental midsection but the rest didn't really grab me. Better than most of the album though.
End result - a rating of 65 % (about the same as HITNF) and 2 or 3 songs I wouldn't mind hearing again.
Fair enough. I rate HITNF slightly higher because there are more songs I enjoy from it (spOOL, Hit the Black, The Voice Inside, Sign of the Times, Reach, and Hero; as opposed to Howl, Liquid Sky, When the Rain Comes..., Right Side, Falling Down), and the quality of the HITNF songs I like is higher than those on Q2k. Using percentages, with Mindcrime being 100%, ranking Q2k as a Queensryche record, I'd probably give it a 60% grade. Whereas HITNF would be about 70%.
I found personally Q2K has three very good songs and one excellent song. "Falling Down", "Liquid Sky" and "Breakdown" are the very good ones, and "Right Side of My Mind" is the excellent one.
All the other songs are pretty much filler that range from meh-decent, but nothing that I really have much interest in hearing.
But I mentioned a few pages back that Live Evolution gives the Q2K songs a big kick in the ass. So maybe with a better production or a harder edge, I would like Q2K better. It's still light years better than DTC.
JJ -- I hear ya. The production is too muddy. I also like Breakdown, but I felt it suffers a bit on the record. I also like the demo a bit more. Geoff was raging a bit more on the demo, which gave it an edge. Agreed on Live Evolution.
I've never heard Howl. Whoever holds the copyright to it is dedicated to keeping it off YouTube and there's no way in hell I'm buying Q2k twice - it was a waste of money the first time round.
There's two songs on it I like, When The Rain Comes and The Right Side Of My Mind, and I like the intro to Burning Man, after which it meanders into the same mediocrity that infects the rest of the album. Everything else on Q2k is worthless as far as I'm concerned.
I love the tune, so I am biased, but it is worth checking out. Can you buy just that song alone? I mean, I assume it's $1.29 on Amazon, but haven't checked. And if you hate it, at least it is only $1.29. :lol I had no idea it wasn't on YouTube. The weird thing about "Howl" is that it doesn't exist on BMI, where Tate's publishing is handled (as well as Kelly Gray and the rest of the Q2k era of Queensryche). It's like from a publishing standpoint, the song doesn't exist, which is baffling to me.
I don't know who wrote it, but it is most likely Kelly and Geoff, and there's just no record of the song's publishing. I've always wondered what was up with that. But it was obviously released. I'm not sure why it isn't listed as being published by Queensryche.
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Queensryche "Howl"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0VIETJxbS8
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"This video is not available".
-----------------------------
Sorry about that.
:-\
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"This video is not available".
-----------------------------
Sorry about that.
:-\
I'm assuming you're not in the U.S. then. Not sure why it isn't available.
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Just gave Q2K a spin after I don't know how many years. Not too much stands out on that album for me. Liquid Sky isn't too bad. I would have to go back and spin it a few more times to even remember the few memorable moments it has. Not sure if I want to do that. Feel the same way about HITNF. I think I'll just check out PL. Much more rewarding experience and less work. :lol
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Most of the album is just too mid tempo and mostly on the slower end of the mid tempo scale. This was around the time I got into QR and the first album I bought was that Greatest Hits cd, I believe that was released in 2000. I was only previously familiar with Silent Lucidity but had heard good things about the band. But I had also read that the band was declining in quality.
I was blown alway by the first 3/4 of the Greatest Hits but remember thinking that Sign of the Times and Chasing Blue Sky was noticeably weaker than the rest of the tracks. I was interested in hearing where they went from the songs on GH and Q2K was the only album that wasn't represented so I went out and got it along with all of the other albums. I read very bad reviews about Q2K but at this point I was so impressed with their earlier works, that I very hopeful to find positives about Q2K. It was clearly a major downgrade and when you start to go out of your way to find positives about an album, that's not a good thing. I just found it pretty boring and generic.
From that point on I was hopeful that QR would return to their metal roots but that during the time when Tate was really anti metal and we all know how that story ended.
I'll also mention that even though I wasn't initially impressed with Chasing Blue Sky, I like it now. It has a cool vibe to it and fits in well with the HITNF remaster.
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PoweSlave - Tate wrote about it briefly in the Q2k reissue liner notes. I quoted it here: https://www.anybodylistening.net/epilogue.html
Thanks for the link. I learned some things that I wasn't aware of by reading that page. I wonder if there's any footage available from halftime reunion that is shown in the pictures. I'll probably search for some later this evening.
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PoweSlave - Tate wrote about it briefly in the Q2k reissue liner notes. I quoted it here: https://www.anybodylistening.net/epilogue.html
Thanks for the link. I learned some things that I wasn't aware of by reading that page. I wonder if there's any footage available from halftime reunion that is shown in the pictures. I'll probably search for some later this evening.
Yes, it is on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/kevYdcB-9Ks?list=PLKFTteRpIzi1hhDIGBh3l8npMXf9IVYkw
Hard to hear though.
edit -- this audio is better -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZekgDjdcAA8&list=PLKFTteRpIzi1hhDIGBh3l8npMXf9IVYkw&index=43
To this day, seeing that still makes me smile. As does Chris' choice of guitar...like many, I think it was a nice little nod to all the QR fans. I don't believe he has played that particular guitar live since '97. I don't remember him using it on the Cantrell tour, or the Spys4Darwin gig he did. And he did not play it with Alice in Chains at the Tsunami Benefit in 2005.
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Cool review of HITNF 20 years later: https://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
The guy who wrote it is kind of a hack, but it's a good read. :P But seriously, that album has a lot more going for it than most people give it credit for. I wish it had come out under different circumstances and maybe could have gotten a bit more love at the time.
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I wish it had come out under different circumstances
Yeah, different songs, stronger performances, etc...
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Cool review of HITNF 20 years later: https://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
The guy who wrote it is kind of a hack, but it's a good read. :P But seriously, that album has a lot more going for it than most people give it credit for. I wish it had come out under different circumstances and maybe could have gotten a bit more love at the time.
Dude is a total hack. Damn good looking though. :lol
Thanks for checking it out.
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Damn good looking though.
I've heard that. Can't verify myself though.
Great writeup. My love for that album is no secret. Despite its flaws, it has a lot of good going for it. And I think you hit on the good, while acknowledging why the album wasn't well received.
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Count me in for loving that album right away.
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I wish it had come out under different circumstances
Yeah, different songs, stronger performances, etc...
:lol
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I always enjoyed that album quite a bit.
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www.bravewords.com/news/queensryche-to-hit-the-studio-in-september-singer-todd-la-torre-discuesses-solo-album-streams-rough-demo-snippet-video
Good news and interesting the commentary about the next album to have a more faster paced songs. I think that was (a minor) flaw of Condition Human. Let's see... anyway, I love the 2 albums with La Torre.
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Hmm...not sure how I feel about this. I mean, Condition Human was excellent. But then the band got on the road and did almost nothing to promote or support it. It's hard to get behind the new material when the band doesn't.
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I was hoping for a live album from the CH tour, but it sounds like a live album isn't in the works for awhile.
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Unfortunately, it doesn’t surprise me that they didn’t do one. For one thing, they just lack motivation. But even beyond that, I believe they are just joining the ever-growing camp of bands that understand that the economics of doing live albums just don’t make sense in the YouTube age. They don’t sell well enough to justify the time and expense of doing them, except as an occasional P/R move to keep the fans happy. I only see this trend growing. Remember—DT didn’t do one this tour cycle either, and that is unusual for them.
Queensryche is in a weird spot right now, honestly. Scott's taking parental leave for months now seems a bit odd under the circumstances (unless there are things we don’t know). Casey Grillo seems to be doing a good job, but the feel is not the same (not his fault, he isn't a clone). They were supposed to begin recording this spring, and that didn't happen.
Then I read the link above (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-hopes-to-begin-recording-new-album-in-september-todd-la-torre-solo-debut-to-arrive-next-year/), and what popped out to me was the "100 dates" thing. I mean, that's like an average of 8 and change gigs per month in a calendar year. They properly headline toured for probably four months, say six in 2016, if you include festivals and European swings. Those six months were the bulk of those dates, with fly-ins for a couple of weeks for a few months to get to 100. So you're saying the (lets say 9-month) work load is too much to write songs and no one wants to go into the studio after that? ??? I get it to a degree -- most of those dudes are older, and real life takes precedence. So there's that. But songwriting can happen anywhere, and there's a lot of down time on tour.
I can’t help but wonder if Queensryche is starting to slowly close things down. I could be reading too much into things, but signs are there. I mean, touring is the band's bread and butter. But their bookings are smaller and there is less demand. They need a bunch of bands in support (except for casino dates or festivals) to book a proper headline tour. It's like that for many bands these days, so Queensryche isn't alone. But, again, they are older, and given their motivation level, I’m just not sure they are into making a living from being hardcore road dogs. Maybe Parker might. And perhaps Todd, to a degree. But the real decision makers in the band don't seem that motivated.
If they do put out a third record with La Torre (and I am sure they will, for 2018), I can’t help but wonder if it will be their last studio album with this lineup. And regardless of how good it may end up being, it won't really make an impact, sales-wise--especially with the lack of promotion that has become the norm with them. Condition Human didn't, and I think the music on that one is outstanding. And the other problem they have is that we all know Tate is going to go out with his band and do Mindcrime again next year (30th anniversary) to milk that cow to its last drop. So both bands will be out there again at the same time, each cutting into the other's ability to get better paying bookings.
Mabye the economic pressures of all of that make the first domino fall to create the perfect storm of a reunion of the original lineup for a 2018 anniversary tour of Mindcrime. Seems unlikely, but stranger things have happened.
I dunno. That’s a lot of musings for a Tuesday morning. And I could be completely off base for a lot of it. I just don’t know where this band is going. And, unfortunately, I don’t see them going much farther. I just don't see anything that indicates to me that they WANT to.
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Unless something drastically changes with the music business, I, too, could see the next QR album be the last one. Rockenfield, Wilton and Jackson are currently 53, 55 and 56 years old, respectively. If they put an album out in 2018 and tour properly, you figure they'd be another 2-3 years older before they'd start writing another album. Is an almost 60 year old EJ gonna want to be recording an album that (maybe) 15,000 people are gonna buy and then go out and tour mid-sized clubs for another year?
And, to the point of them not really playing anything off the last album live, if it reaches that point where you're not playing the new material, unless you really have something to say, why bother making new music at all?!? There are plenty of bands that just tour and tour without putting out new music.
It's sad to say. But, I think more and more bands a lot of us listen to are coming closer to that crossroads.
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Do we think a Tate reunion is only a matter of time? Could be.
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Do we think a Tate reunion is only a matter of time? Could be.
The right things would have to happen for it to occur, IMO. I think it is possible, and I can see a few possible scenarios where it could play out. For instance (and this is HIGHLY simplified and full of speculation, obviously):
1. Tate and Rockenfield make up. Not much of a stretch. Yeah, he spat on Scott. But, really, it didn't go beyond that. And Scott will go where there is money. If enticed by, say, one last big Mindcrime anniversary, I could see them burying the hatchet, at least temporarily.
2. Well, if Scott's in, Eddie may not be too far behind.
3. They reach out to CDG and say, "Hey, I know you've moved on, but promoters are really eager to book us on a farewell Mindcrime anniversary tour, provided it is all original members. Can you take a sabbatical and go out on one last hurrah?" Chris sucks it up...
4. ...and then reaches out to Whip, who is in if Chris is in.
Boom. Original lineup.
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That's looks good, but first Tate needs to take responsibility for his actions and get his head out of the clouds. It's all well and good to apologize and such, but he really does need to wake up and take a good hard look at himself. And the others need to wake up to themselves that they let one guy control 3 others for such a long time and get on a different level with Tate, and that Tate accepts it.
They are all men, not female backstabbing teenagers. Grow the fuck up and it might work.
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Yeah, you know, that all makes sense when it comes to us the fans on the outside. But as far as the band getting together, if it happened in that order, it might only take a halfhearted apology to get Scott back in. And then same with Eddie. He doesn't really have to apologize to Chris, as far as I know. And if he has those three and promoters beating down the door, Geoff probably wouldn't even have to talk to Whip at all for Whip to be pressured back in for a tour. And if it was the original lineup, how big a percentage of the fanbase would REALLY stand on principle and not come out and see them one last time? Not very, I would guess.
I agree that that is how it SHOULD happen, and how it NEEDS to happen for there to be any sort of real closure and moving on. But if they got together for a swan song and the paycheck that comes with it, the band might not care about principle or closure and might just do it. Just saying.
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Yeah I agree with all of that. I'm sure 99% of fans would be out to see it. Really, if the band would somehow find a way to get together on stage again, who are we to argue. You're right, it's really different from our point of view to them.
Money talks, no doubt about it. Maybe what looks like halfheartedness from the band at the moment is the realisation that standing up for their rights and doing what they have done, in principle is right, but obviously is sacrificing income. Catch 22 situation and perhaps the band might be seeing that as time goes on.
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If I had to guess, I would say there will be a reunion of the original line up when the band decides to shut things down. The current line up has helped to redeem the band and bring back some lost credibility, but the original band is what will be remembered legacy wise.
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Could be right but my feeling is that they'll stand their ground like the Skid Row guys have with Bach - and they could've raked it in supporting GnR on the recent tour. It was on offer and they wouldn't do it.
These days I would rather see Toddryche - maybe it's just me (or just out here) but I can't see Tate's name adding hugely to crowd numbers. DeGarmo would be far more appealing to me.
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These days I would rather see Toddryche - maybe it's just me (or just out here) but I can't see Tate's name adding hugely to crowd numbers. DeGarmo would be far more appealing to me.
Same here. And when I saw them a few months ago, they put on a pretty solid show. But just not sure what they have left.
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3. They reach out to CDG and say, "Hey, I know you've moved on, but promoters are really eager to book us on a farewell Mindcrime anniversary tour, provided it is all original members. Can you take a sabbatical and go out on one last hurrah?"
Honestly, I can't think of anything more pathetic.
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Do we think a Tate reunion is only a matter of time? Could be.
Please God NO.
Not only is Tate a moron and a dickweed, but he can't sing either.
This would be the one instance where I would rather see a hologram than the real thing....and I would still rather see Todd (or for that matter, anyone) than Tate.
Half the people at the local karaoke bar sing better than that guy the way he his now.
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This would be the one instance where I would rather see a hologram than the real thing..
:rollin :rollin
Nice! :lol
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Do we think a Tate reunion is only a matter of time? Could be.
Please God NO.
Not only is Tate a moron and a dickweed, but he can't sing either.
This would be the one instance where I would rather see a hologram than the real thing....and I would still rather see Todd (or for that matter, anyone) than Tate.
Half the people at the local karaoke bar sing better than that guy the way he his now.
I don't disagree with anything you said about Tate. Not one bit. But if, hypothetically, this were to happen (this being an all original lineup farewell tour), I would go just to see CDG onstage with the band. Just curious--would you?
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To make Tate's comeback even more special his retro band (Rock and Vaudeville) could reform too and be support
(https://s4.postimg.org/7tr0mryil/tate.jpg)
:metal :metal
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In only a casual fan of QR and have been lurking his thread but it's always sad to me seeing a band (what appears to me) coming to an end. I do think an original lineup tour (despite Tate not being great) would be a great way to end things.
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Do we think a Tate reunion is only a matter of time? Could be.
Please God NO.
Not only is Tate a moron and a dickweed, but he can't sing either.
This would be the one instance where I would rather see a hologram than the real thing....and I would still rather see Todd (or for that matter, anyone) than Tate.
Half the people at the local karaoke bar sing better than that guy the way he his now.
I don't disagree with anything you said about Tate. Not one bit. But if, hypothetically, this were to happen (this being an all original lineup farewell tour), I would go just to see CDG onstage with the band. Just curious--would you?
If I had never seen them with Chris.....I would probably go. But I saw them headline the Mindcrime tour, in their home town, for a New Years Eve show. It was pretty spectacular. I'd rather remember that night.
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Fair enough. I can't argue with that.
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Is there really that much of a crowd who would hypothetically see a reunited QR doing a Mindcrime farewell tour? Is there still a large enough fanbase so that promoters really were interested in this thing?
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Not a huge amount, but probably a bit more than the current line up would bring in.
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Okay, and what then? Do they earn enough money with a reunion tour that they can retire?
Because, unless they are extremely lucky, everything else they do after hypothetically ending QR with the hypothetically reunion tour will generate far less income than the Todd fronted QR does now. So I don't know where the motivation to reunite with Tate would be coming from.
The only one who would profit from a reunion is Tate imo.
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I post this with no disrespect to anyone that it is important to them to see Degarmo, maybe they missed them back in the day, too young, etc....
But for me, Degarmo coming back to do a one off Mindcrime Reunion tour really would mean nothing. It'd be a cash grab, and well, I think we had this line of conversation at another time regarding GnR, but I just can't get behind it. Besides, the vocals are still going to suck, no?
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DeGarmo was a big part of QR back then but I don't relly care if he joined them on a hypothetical reunion. As you said the vocals would still suck.
The only thing that would get me mildly excited was, if CDG would join the current QR for a new record. But then I don't know if he really still has it in him. The last QR with his input I enjoyed was Promised Land and that is now 23 years ago.
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There is no perfect scenario for a couple of reasons.
Current lineup doesn't have the draw that they would like, but they obviously have the chemistry and compatibility to continue together.
If you add in Chris DeGarmo you obviously excite a lot of people, myself included, HOWEVER I can't support that move if it means Parker gets the boot. That guy has been friendly, dedicated to the job, and a great fit. I understand business wise DeGarmo for Parker is a no brainer, but for Parker's sake I don't want to see it happen.
With Tate you're getting back someone who can't sing as well anymore and who may very well suck all the fun and chemistry out of the band at this point.
So basically I just want to see the current band continue and do as well as they can.
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So basically I just want to see the current band continue and do as well as they can.
Amen to that. I'd be totally fine with another couple of records of equal quality like the last two.
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If you add in Chris DeGarmo you obviously excite a lot of people, myself included, HOWEVER I can't support that move if it means Parker gets the boot. That guy has been friendly, dedicated to the job, and a great fit. I understand business wise DeGarmo for Parker is a no brainer, but for Parker's sake I don't want to see it happen.
I have an idea!
(https://www.premierguitar.com/ext/resources/images/content/2015-10/FEAT/Iron-Maiden/concorde4130_PhotoByJohnMcMurtrie_FEATURED.jpg?1444667255)
So basically I just want to see the current band continue and do as well as they can.
Amen to that. I'd be totally fine with another couple of records of equal quality like the last two.
Amen to the Amen!
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If you add in Chris DeGarmo you obviously excite a lot of people, myself included, HOWEVER I can't support that move if it means Parker gets the boot. That guy has been friendly, dedicated to the job, and a great fit. I understand business wise DeGarmo for Parker is a no brainer, but for Parker's sake I don't want to see it happen.
I have an idea!
(https://www.premierguitar.com/ext/resources/images/content/2015-10/FEAT/Iron-Maiden/concorde4130_PhotoByJohnMcMurtrie_FEATURED.jpg?1444667255)
So basically I just want to see the current band continue and do as well as they can.
Amen to that. I'd be totally fine with another couple of records of equal quality like the last two.
Amen to the Amen!
Yeah, I thought of the Maiden thing as well, and while I'd be completely fine with that, three guitars can be a bit much at times.
I think from a practical sense my PERFECT scenario is that Chris, not wanting to be part of the limelight and drama goes into the studio and writes with the band, maybe records as well, and then leaves the guys to go out and tour. The problem with that route is they would be paying him and getting the least out of it from a business sense. I think they may make a great album, but sadly those don't make money anymore. Only having him out on the road will benefit them financially.
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Just wondering, when was the last time Chris has spoken publicly about Queensryche? Has he said anything interesting about QR in the last few years?
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Just wondering, when was the last time Chris has spoken publicly about Queensryche? Has he said anything interesting about QR in the last few years?
Probably not since he assisted the band in writing Justified, on the last greatest hits collection that came out about 8-10 years ago.
I think it's safe to say that Chris doesn't feel the need to come back to the band. He has had his own career for 20 years now. The only way I could see him coming back is if the band did one final show in Seattle before hanging it up for good. He may not want to tour, but I think he might show up at a career-ending concert close to home.
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Okay, and what then? Do they earn enough money with a reunion tour that they can retire?
Because, unless they are extremely lucky, everything else they do after hypothetically ending QR with the hypothetically reunion tour will generate far less income than the Todd fronted QR does now. So I don't know where the motivation to reunite with Tate would be coming from.
The only one who would profit from a reunion is Tate imo.
Yeah, I think a reunion would definitely draw significantly more than what each of the separate entities draws now, especially if it is billed as a farewell tour. As far as "what then?," I don't think it's that hard to figure out what they would do, at least in general terms. What have other bands done? They would milk the farewell/Mindcrime thing for everything it is worth, touring every possible place they can tour. Then even if Chris has to cut it short and go back to the day job, they feed on that momentum and still tour it out without him to wring every last drop out of it, and then they go their separate ways. Todd and Parker have made enough of a reputation for themselves in terms of their public personas that they will surely have opportunities. Tate will continue doing his solo thing, which will probably have gotten a boost and won back some fans by "burying the hatchet" with his old bandmates. Ed, Scott, and Whip will continue doing other projects and music-related things to make ends meet. ...and then they will inevitably "come out of retirement because YOU wouldn't let us leave!" when the bank accounts need a bit of a shot in the arm. That's the pattern.
So basically I just want to see the current band continue and do as well as they can.
Agreed. I'm not saying I want them to do a reunion tour and then pack it up. I'm just saying, I am seeing things that could indicate the end isn't far off.
I have an idea!
(https://www.premierguitar.com/ext/resources/images/content/2015-10/FEAT/Iron-Maiden/concorde4130_PhotoByJohnMcMurtrie_FEATURED.jpg?1444667255)
Yeah, I thought of that as well. But I quickly dismissed the idea simply for budgetary reasons. Even with original lineup doing a Mindcrime anniversary tour (hypothetically), they aren't playing anywhere near the size venue or getting anywhere near the size guarantees that Maiden does. So adding a 6th band member to the payroll is pretty significant.
Look, I'm not advocating for them to do this and boot Parker. I'm just saying, it is a plausible scenario.
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My .02 - I think the writing is on the wall for current Queensryche. It is HARD out there to survive as a touring headliner that plays clubs. I know some guys in bands of QR's caliber, and when I asked about touring, they basically said it is getting more difficult each year to do it, financially. What I think will happen for Queensryche is that these casino/hairband pairings will continue to increase, minimizing the amount of shows, but maximizing profit (most of those fly-ins pay well, and accommodations come with it).
I'm not saying fly-ins are the only shows they will do, in the next few years, but I think you'll see Queensryche co-headlining clubs now, and continuing the 80-85-minute sets and more six-to-eight week runs, as opposed to a full on tour. And the "tours" will get shorter, in favor of those fly-ins. One more record, and in my opinion, that will probably be the end of Queensryche in terms of new music. They'll probably then embrace more of a "retirement" plan, and then start limiting shows to those fly-ins. Probably over the next four years.
I think Todd's comments on certain heavier elements and styles not being right for Queensryche speaks volumes about where the band is. They probably wouldn't come out and say it, but in my opinion, they've likely made a decision to play things safe from here on out with their records. I wouldn't expect any left-hand turns or "growth" from them in new directions. And to be honest, for a certain segment of the fan base, that is probably really appealing.
Regarding any reunion with Tate and/or DeGarmo: The only way I can see it happening is if there is a HUGE offer on the table, ala Dokken in Japan, that is run by the best in the business, management-wise. Some limited run, with the original band, and once done, everyone goes back to what they are doing. But I still find that to be unlikely, because to be honest, DeGarmo doesn't strike me as that kind of guy. He doesn't need more money. Has plenty. He enjoys life, he loves music, and does it with his daughter and writes for himself. But Chris cares about his professionalism and image as it relates to Queensryche.
Here's a very small example. An old acquaintance of mine is friends with Chris. They play golf at the same club and were having lunch post-golf. This was post-settlement, probably fall 2014. Folks recognized Chris, and came back with a QR CD, and asked him to sign. Not only did Chris take the time to talk to the person, keep eye contact, and make them feel welcome (what Chris always does), he signed the CD liner insert, and then blew on the marker to make sure that autograph wouldn't smear because he knew how important it was to that particular fan.
That may seem like a small detail to a lot of people, but honestly, it's not common. Most guys sign and move on. But Chris cares about the details. In short -- Chris' reputation as a member of Queensryche and that legacy is very important to him, and in my opinion, he's not going to get together with them just to make a buck. The other guys may not care about that "legacy" thing, but Chris' actions (and inaction regarding things) show me that he most certainly does.
That's why I don't think he'd involve himself with the current band, or with Geoff's side project. It would look like he was favoring one over the other, and he's always tried to avoid that. Perhaps, if a farewell tour was arranged, and the money was there for everyone else, and QR was playing amphitheater sized stages again like they did on HITNF and PL, he'd consider it, if it was something that could be done to the standards they had when he was in the band. Or a final record, done properly, with the original band and a farewell tour. But outside of something with finality, connected with the original band, I think DeGarmo will contently stay out of all of it. He's wisely kept himself wisely above all of it for a long time. He's met Todd. If he wanted to work with him, and get involved with current Queensryche, he would have.
And do I think any of that original lineup reunion stuff will actually happen? Not really. Probably 30 percent yes, 70 percent no. And those odds likely will significantly decrease further over the next few years.
Now, in regard to Tate: IMO, Tate is probably angling to trot out Mindcrime (as bosk said) in 2018 for the 30th. I just don't see him and his Mindcrime band getting big offers to do it. He saturated people with it over and over again. But that's probably his angle. He might garner SOME interest if he was able to lure someone from current Queensryche over, but the only one I think would be likely would be Scott. And I still think it is a long shot, given how Scott is currently taking time off the road (he wasn't and isn't a big fan of long tours). So it really doesn't look feasible for Tate to pull anyone out of QR to make it more attractive. So Mindcrime 30 may happen for Tate, but not at the level it probably deserves, that's for sure.
As for Tate and his voice, I saw him on the acoustic tour this spring. And I have to say, it was very enjoyable. He was in his element, honestly. His vocals sounded good, and he sang well against the acoustic backdrop. Not sure why he sounds different over electric instrumentation, but his power, tone and control were very good. Yes, his range is significantly lower. But range isn't everything. I went in expecting nothing. And he surprised me with how much fun he had, and how relaxed and good he sounded. Say what you want about Tate's actions. They are what they are. I certainly had a problem with it. But he's moved on, and they've moved on, and at the end of the day, as a fan, I just want to enjoy the music.
But I personally don't expect Queensryche to reunite with Tate without DeGarmo being a part of it. And I don't think DeGarmo would return unless it was the entire original band. And the likelihood of all that happening decreases with each passing year.
I wish them all the best, although personally I think that Todd and Parker are doing the right thing by starting to branch out and do stuff like solo albums and connecting with other bands. Makes good sense, given the direction QR seems to be turning.
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Great post.
@Samsara
Do you know if the QR made more money by doing the campaign for their newest disc?
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That's why I don't think he'd involve himself with the current band, or with Geoff's side project. It would look like he was favoring one over the other, and he's always tried to avoid that. Perhaps, if a farewell tour was arranged, and the money was there for everyone else, and QR was playing amphitheater sized stages again like they did on HITNF and PL, he'd consider it, if it was something that could be done to the standards they had when he was in the band. Or a final record, done properly, with the original band and a farewell tour. But outside of something with finality, connected with the original band, I think DeGarmo will contently stay out of all of it. He's wisely kept himself wisely above all of it for a long time. He's met Todd. If he wanted to work with him, and get involved with current Queensryche, he would have.
First off, great post. Second, I agree wholeheartedly with the quoted part above, and something along those lines is what I was suggesting might be an unlikely possibility. Yeah, it's an outside chance. But as time has passed, I now think it is possible, whereas if you asked me two years ago, I would have just laughed at the prospect.
And do I think any of that original lineup reunion stuff will actually happen? Not really. Probably 30 percent yes, 70 percent no. And those odds likely will significantly decrease further over the next few years.
Hmm, interesting. I agree with the odds (and maybe might call it even longer than 30%). But I'm not so sure about the odds decreasing as time goes by. I think the odds might actually increase, for a couple of reason: (1) As time passes, I think it gets easier and easier for time to heal the wounds/blur the memories/blunt the emotions of what happened prior to the split. (2) As time passes, financial pressure likely increases as interest in Queensryche and Tate continue to decline, and that can create a level of desperation that could drive them together.
Not saying I am definitely right. And I'm not even really disagreeing so much as just offering a possible different take. But I think there are factors that could likely come into play that make the odds better farther down the road, even if they lose the "anniversary" opportunity. If they hypothetically billed a reunion/retirement tour as a reboot of the Building Empires tour, I think promoters would be all over the possibility of shows featuring all of Mindcrime and a good chunk of Empire with the original lineup. And a bunch of the lost bandwagon fans would be back in seats. That's a factor that shouldn't be overlooked.
As for Tate and his voice, I saw him on the acoustic tour this spring. And I have to say, it was very enjoyable. He was in his element, honestly. His vocals sounded good, and he sang well against the acoustic backdrop. Not sure why he sounds different over electric instrumentation, but his power, tone and control were very good.
I will hazard a guess that a great deal of it is attributable, at least in part, to these factors:
1. Accoustically, he doesn't have to belt everything. The songs are more comfortable for him, so he doesn't have to push.
2. Shorter, less demanding sets mean he doesn't have to engage in bad habits (singing from the neck up) to preserve his voice for as long, so he can sing relatively "properly" without having to worry as much about tiring out before the end of the show.
3. Maybe, just maybe, he made a bit of effort to take a bit better care of his voice knowing that, over soft acoustic music, flaws would look/sound more glaring.
I think 1 and 2 are likely to have come into play to some degree at least.
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great post Brian
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Regarding Tate's voice, you said before that he sounded good on that acoustic set and part of it may be the things bosk mentioned. And if he has taken care of his voice and dropped that nasally whining that he's done for some time I believe he can deliver powerful and emotional vocals but, and this is a big but, he can't get back the range and those Mindcrime songs are all about that range. I can't imagine Tate doing them justice and I don't think those songs work when down tuned.
I could imagine some Empire and Promised Land songs sounding good again if he puts in the effort, but as others have mentioned he will probably squeeze every last bit out of Mindcrime.
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Goo, bosk, jj -- thanks.
Do you know if the QR made more money by doing the campaign for their newest disc?
No, I don't. I'm not involved with them at all.
First off, great post. Second, I agree wholeheartedly with the quoted part above, and something along those lines is what I was suggesting might be an unlikely possibility. Yeah, it's an outside chance. But as time has passed, I now think it is possible, whereas if you asked me two years ago, I would have just laughed at the prospect.
I feel pretty strongly that DeGarmo won't work with either "side." It hasn't been his MO to get involved with a splintered off sect of the band, and I don't think that's changing.
For the other scenarios, as shitty as it is to say, money talks. In my opinion, if for some strange reason, someone came calling with a bus full of cash, I think the other four original members would line up to take it in this order of priority -- Rockenfield, Tate, Jackson, Wilton. You can always apologize and say the right things publicly to make something believable. And as we saw over the years, once "Tateryche" firmly took hold in the mid-2000s, that's what it all pretty much came to be about -- money. Who's getting it, how much are they getting, and how can they make more.
I think Tate is likely stretching the truth a little bit when he says (paraphrasing here) they were never friends, but business associates. Sure, they might not all have been TIGHT, but they were friends in the past. They simply grew apart without Chris, and as the money and power shifted around. That happens. And it takes a lot of work to reconnect on any sort of personal level, which ultimately drives the artistic level, and it's harder when you're older, and more set in your ways. It's not a unique situation at all. But there is some "connection" or "bond" they all have. And DeGarmo has stated it in the past (again paraphrasing) - the musical chemistry between the five of them is there. It's proven. It produces great things. But all the other factors (money, control, egos, etc.) got in the way. I think that chemistry is less solid between Tate-Rock-Jackson-Wilton when DeGarmo is not involved. He's always been the glue.
But if someone offered up big-time cash, and it wasn't predicated on Chris being with them, I think they'd find a way to make it happen. But again, all just my personal gut feeling on it, based on what has happened over the last five years.
Hmm, interesting. I agree with the odds (and maybe might call it even longer than 30%). But I'm not so sure about the odds decreasing as time goes by. I think the odds might actually increase, for a couple of reason: (1) As time passes, I think it gets easier and easier for time to heal the wounds/blur the memories/blunt the emotions of what happened prior to the split. (2) As time passes, financial pressure likely increases as interest in Queensryche and Tate continue to decline, and that can create a level of desperation that could drive them together.
Not saying I am definitely right. And I'm not even really disagreeing so much as just offering a possible different take. But I think there are factors that could likely come into play that make the odds better farther down the road, even if they lose the "anniversary" opportunity. If they hypothetically billed a reunion/retirement tour as a reboot of the Building Empires tour, I think promoters would be all over the possibility of shows featuring all of Mindcrime and a good chunk of Empire with the original lineup. And a bunch of the lost bandwagon fans would be back in seats. That's a factor that shouldn't be overlooked.
Perhaps. You're not wrong at all. But the one factor you're not listing there is relevancy. As time goes on, Queensryche becomes less and less relevant, given their current trajectory (as discussed), and Tate's declining appeal. So while I grant you those two reasons you listed could very well be right, the wildcard is the fact that promoters will likely care less and less as time goes on. It would have been huge after Mindcrime II. Now, after the split, and after each side released some records, and both are starting to not be as successful on the road? Not so much, from a relevancy standpoint.
As a completely selfish fan, I would love to see the original lineup of Queensryche put out a modern hard rock/metal progressive album worthy of the band's legacy, and a final tour that celebrates that last record, and the band's history, and calls it a day. For me, and I am sure thousands of others, that would be the ultimate closure, and everyone can ride off into the sunset satisfied.
But as a realist, I just don't see it happening unless SO MANY of the factors we've discussed above fall into place. And that's really tough. If everyone is happy separately, and can survive and retire, then why do it, ya know? Tate seemed genuinely comfortable and happy with what he's doing. Queensryche is satisfied with what they are doing. And DeGarmo is living what appears to be a successful and comfortable life.
Anyway, from a positive point of view, as I said, everyone seems pretty happy and content now. And that's a very good thing. While people like myself and others who wish the original lineup would get back together sort of "lose," in the end, we've got seven or eight great studio releases, and that's a lot more than most bands get. :)
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Perhaps. You're not wrong at all. But the one factor you're not listing there is relevancy. As time goes on, Queensryche becomes less and less relevant, given their current trajectory (as discussed), and Tate's declining appeal. So while I grant you those two reasons you listed could very well be right, the wildcard is the fact that promoters will likely care less and less as time goes on.
Very true. But to keep the speculation train rumbling down the tracks (because why not?), imagine this: 2017 bosk and Samsara travel back in time to the mid-'90s and say, "Hey, you know what, mid-'90s bosk and Samsara? In 2017, there will be these festivals called M3, the Monsters of Rock Cruise, and a bunch of others, where all the '80s bands come and play, including Queensryche, Stryper, Y&T, Great White, Ratt, Dokken, Faster Pussycat, Lita Ford, Kix, Loverboy, Cinderella, and a bunch of others." I'm gonna guess mid-'90s bosk and Samsara say something like, "Yeah, right. Those bands are barely relevant anymore. And time will only make them less so." Just sayin'... ;)
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I love a lot of those bands, but you're not wrong at all. There's no way in 1995, I would have put Queensryche and those bands together in terms of relevancy. And at the time, QR was head and shoulders above them. Now, not so much. Same general pot, relevancy-wise. I guess time will tell!
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In the mean time, since we're time traveling and all, we should go back even farther, abduct a bunch of excellent historic dudes, and then bring them back here for a book report or something. We could even take them to a mall and possibly a water slide park while we're at it.
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I love a lot of those bands, but you're not wrong at all. There's no way in 1995, I would have put Queensryche and those bands together in terms of relevancy. And at the time, QR was head and shoulders above them. Now, not so much. Same general pot, relevancy-wise. I guess time will tell!
Always gotta sneak a Fifth Angel reference in there, don'tcha?
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:lol
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In the mean time, since we're time traveling and all, we should go back even farther, abduct a bunch of excellent historic dudes, and then bring them back here for a book report or something. We could even take them to a mall and possibly a water slide park while we're at it.
Excellent dude!
:lol
Always gotta sneak a Fifth Angel reference in there, don'tcha?
There's no getting past you, is there Tim? :rollin
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Always gotta sneak a Fifth Angel reference in there, don'tcha?
There's no getting past you, is there Tim? :rollin
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/35/e5/f1/35e5f1b58466d12123c98b03da75a6c5.jpg)
:hat
~
In all seriousness though, I'm really not sure what to think of the whole Queensryche matter anymore. I enjoyed Condition Human, but the very limited amount of representing that new material live really cuts my enthusiasm for the music. I bet the next QR album will probably be solid, but I just don't know if I'm going to end up caring much about it.
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In the mean time, since we're time traveling and all, we should go back even farther, abduct a bunch of excellent historic dudes, and then bring them back here for a book report or something. We could even take them to a mall and possibly a water slide park while we're at it.
Best movie ever!!!!
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Just wondering, when was the last time Chris has spoken publicly about Queensryche? Has he said anything interesting about QR in the last few years?
Last time was the ESPN interview in 2011(?), I believe - https://www.espn.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/41500/rocker-chris-degarmo
Well, I'll never say never. I don't know how likely it is though. I'm still on good terms with anyone. I didn't leave on any bad terms. We're still connected and communicating. I don't know. If we could figure it out together how to create a really great album, maybe. I wouldn't do it just to be doing it. We've gotten together a few times so I know we have the chemistry. That's not an issue. We all know we work well togethter.
That was before the split with Tate and I can't imagine he's at all interested in trying to foster a writing relationship with Todd (or Parker).
All I can imagine DeGarmo doing now is a farewell performance, or two, if it came to it.
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LOL...but he said:
Ex-QUEENSRźCHE Singer GEOFF TATE Is 'Not Really Motivated' To Work Out Differences With His Former Bandmates
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ex-queensryche-singer-geoff-tate-is-not-really-motivated-to-work-out-differences-with-his-former-bandmates/#ppz1ROP6CDuSmexe.99
"The money would be the big driving force that would get everybody together, and I don't need the money, so I'm not really motivated to sit in a room and listen to what I've had to listen to [laughs] with everybody. But, you know, again, never say never."
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Always the "never say never" response lol
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Really interesting read: https://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
Since Samsara isn't here to post it, I will. The crux of the blog is how single choices, not the era in which it was released, contributed to the album’s decline in sales and mainstream bailing on them.
It is interesting to discuss. Ultimately, we'll never know for sure. But I buy into that idea quite a bit. The choice of singles was really odd, other than Bridge. My two cents on what they SHOULD have done: I agree with not releasing I Am I, Disconnected, and Someone Else? as singles. Those were just not good choices. They are great songs. But they are not great singles. Bridge definitely was a good choice. It is radio/mainstream-friendly, and isn't a bad song by any means. Honestly, I think they could have led with that one. For the marketing cycle of Empire, releasing the title song first was fine. Queensryche had started really building a following with Mindcrime, but there were still a LOT of people in the more mainstream music market that had no idea who they were prior to Empire. The title song would have appealed to the existing fanbase and drawn them in. Then, the more radio-friendly tracks drew in the masses. Their entire marketing strategy during the Mindcrime and Empire phase of their careers was actually quite brilliant, IMO. But by PL, the fan base was already established. So I think offering the heavier Damaged as a lead single rather than the friendlier Bridge would have been a misstep (although not nearly as big a misstep as I Am I). Bridge would have drawn the fans back, especially those who may have felt like the somewhat-progressive and unconventional The Real World was a cool song, but a little weird. I think Damaged could have been the ideal third single, bookended by One More Time and My Global Mind. One More Time would be great for keeping the momentum going and bringing back the rockers who may not have bought into Bridge. And it is catchy enough that it wouldn't have put off the non-hardcore Lucidity/NutherRainyNight fans. Then Damaged, lest those still holding out not forget that QR still knew how to drop the heavy. Then My Global Mind to, as 4th singles often do, simply remind people that the band is still out there, and that they should really pick up the album and a concert ticket if they haven't already.
Interesting thought on Dirty L'il Secret as a single. For what it's worth, I'm going to disagree on that one, and here's why: Timing. I think timing was definitely a factor in why the album didn't do well, but, as the blog points out, not the factor. I think DLS would have hurt them because of the timing. It's a good, fun little song that reminds me a lot of Last Time In Paris in a good way. But unlike a lot of PL, which is dark, and moody, and deep, and somewhat-progressive, DLS sounds too much like the music of the late '80s and early '90s that the mainstream was moving away from. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would have done well.
So, that's kind of my take on it. Not sure what others think. Again, cool blog entry.
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I don't think releasing any different songs would have made a huge difference. It was a different time for music and while all of the songs on Promised Land are very good, none of them scream radio single to me.
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while all of the songs on Promised Land are very good, none of them scream radio single to me.
This is my knee-jerk reaction as well. But still, the singles they released were objectively the wrong ones. I think they could have done better. You are right that it was a different time for music. But there was still some demand for this album. It wouldn't have been a smash hit for sure. But proper promotion could have helped it do better than it did, and singles were still a BIG part of proper album promotion at that time.
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I agree re One More Time. Much more accessible than most of the album , never seems to get a mention and actually my fave song on the album.
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I can make a guess that alot of the Queensryche fans at the time only became QR fans in 1990 when Empire was released and the band was firing out radio hit after radio hit. Once this casual fan listened to a track or two (or the whole thing) of PL once or twice, they passed on the album and never came back to the band. It clearly wasn't Empire 2 and these fans moved onto another band. This album is a major grower and you have to put in some time, and most people wouldn't bother.
I really like the one-two punch of Global Mind and One More Time. I guess I could see One More Time getting a bit more radio play, but I also see it being a song that fades out of the radio spotlight fast. I wasn't listening to the band at the time so I can only speculate.
Still my favorite track on the album is the title track. Such a cool tune, but no chance that is getting played on the radio.
I think there was a similar situation when Skid Row released Slave. People probably expected a self title re hash but instead they got a pure full on metal release. Not going to be everyone's cup of tea.
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I'll be honest. Hearing Bridge first was an immediate turn off. After Silent Lucidity, it screamed sell out and copycat. Because of that I was extremely suspicious of Promised Land. Turns out I had good reason to be.
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I agree re One More Time. Much more accessible than most of the album , never seems to get a mention and actually my fave song on the album.
Mine too.
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Thanks for posting about it, bosk. And thanks to anyone who read it. I wish I had a blog functionality on the site to enable comments, but I don't.
PL is such an oddity to me. If you look at it as a snapshot, it was exactly opposite of what Empire was. But when you look at it a little closer, it actually is a natural evolution musically for the band. Lyrically, PL was absolutely brilliant (despite being written in such a difficult point for the band members other than Chris, personally), and such a raw introspective look at things the band was going through (or at least Tate).
The funny thing for me personally is that like I am sure many, I didn't get it at first and was disappointed with it. I was in college, and living at home. I remember not knowing the release date, but stopping by the local music shop on my way home from class, and seeing it was out that particular day. I didn't get paid until Friday, so my mother loaned me $20 to go get the CD. I got it home, put it on, and was crushed. LOL. I tried again a day or two later, at night, with headphones, and it clicked, and I never looked back. The older I get, the more I appreciate it, which was exactly what Tate said over the years.
Bands get lucky to have a "timeless" record. Records that are so good, that they really don't become "dated" due to production, lyrics, and style. Queensryche has not one, but TWO of those. Mindcrime and Promised Land. Pretty incredible if you think about it. I totally get why some people may not like it. But it's a hell of an emotional ride for 48 minutes.
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I agree re One More Time. Much more accessible than most of the album , never seems to get a mention and actually my fave song on the album.
This and Damaged saved the album from being an Awake style right off to begin with. Love both albums now, but man it took a long time.
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I was just thinking the other day that I would like to hear opinions on this forum of Todd. Even though there isn't a ton of QR discussion on this forum, we aren't as likely to get unfair bias for or against. And now that Todd has two albums and tours under his belt, I think he can be fairly evaluated. My two cents:
When I heard the initial covers on YouTube and then saw clips from the Rising West shows, I was ecstatic that the guys were out playing with someone who could do the classic material justice for the first time in a long time. Time has passed, and we've been able to hear him on two albums, hear some live tracks that have been polished up, and hear lots of unpolished live performances.
The live shows have been a bit hit and miss, for a few reasons. Health is definitely one of them. I did not closely follow a lot of shows like some people did who can better describe how he did from gig to gig. But I think the time he was sick, he struggled the most and turned in the worst performances. But he was really a trooper and forged through it. It even taught him some better technique, as it forced him to learn to sing properly just to get through shows when his throat was not up to par.
Overall, I REALLY like Todd's live singing. When it comes to singing the classic material, it's easy to like him simply by comparison because Tate has not been able to do those songs justice for YEARS. But Todd is a great singer in his own right. His voice may not naturally be as full as Tate's, but I think he sounds really good on the old material. I appreciate that he keeps it MOSTLY true to the originals, while injecting just enough of his own style that he doesn't come across as a hired gun in a cover band. His voice is powerful, emotive, and has a grittiness that adds a heaviness the band didn't really have before. I also like the occasional screams and growls he does. Too much would be a turnoff for this kind of music, but I think he has a good feel for when to throw in something occasionally to give a little added flavor and heaviness. And it is rarely in the forefront, so it isn't distracting. When he first came out with the band, despite his age, he came out guns blazing. That was great for the power, energy, and emotion of it all. But like a younger singer without much experience, he soon learned that wasn't sustainable. He has matured and dialed it back a bit, which enables him to be more consistent, and that is a good thing.
Speaking of the live performances, he is a pretty good front man in general. He has a commanding stage presence, he has enough energy to energizer the crowd, and he just does the things one would expect a metal front man to do.
In studio, I think Todd has been pretty strong since the beginning--at least in terms of singing. In terms of writing, I do not think he made good vocal choices early on. Redemption is a standout example. Cool song. But the vocal lines were written in a way that does not show good understanding of what it would take to duplicate that performance live, especially in context of having to sing an entire set of music. It is just immature songwriting. The melodies on the second album show a lot of growth. And Todd also toned down the vocal effects, which is a plus.
Overall, in terms of Todd as a vocalist, I think he is a good fit for the band. He handles the old material well, and brings a lot to the table that sounds modern and fresh on their new material. I don't like giving a "grade" or "score," but I would probably give him fairly high marks if I were inclined to rate him that way. Not perfect, but pretty high.
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I was just thinking the other day that I would like to hear opinions on this forum of Todd. Even though there isn't a ton of QR discussion on this forum, we aren't as likely to get unfair bias for or against. And now that Todd has two albums and tours under his belt, I think he can be fairly evaluated.
Every point that you made seems to be spot on for me. The only addition that I would make is that his attitude when dealing with the fans and carrying himself publicly has been second to none. Even when dealing with questions in interviews about GT he's handled it all with class.
Condition Human didn't really connect with me on a level that I was hoping that it would, but I do recognize the vast improvement that the band as a whole has made. I attribute much of that improvement on TL's presence. I would also grade him very highly for that alone.
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Live:
I was at those two Rising West shows. Todd La Torre blew me away. Jaw-dropping. Honestly, from a classic Queensryche fan perspective, it was euphoria. No other way to describe the vibe in the room, particularly the first night. There was so much connection because he was a fan who lived and breathed those songs like all of us in the audience, and he delivered them with such conviction that was just so engaging. I'll never forget it. YouTube doesn't do it justice.
He had some ups and downs performing live since then until the Condition Human tour. The first few years were his first as a touring singer, learning how different climates and situations impact his voice. Add to that his chronic sinus issues, and a lack of vocal training, and he was at times having difficulty being thrown into the fire like that. But I have to say, in 2015 and 2016, and into this year, I think Todd has finally gotten comfortable with his voice, and how to sing the Queensryche songs to best maximize his ability. And he morphed from being at times spotty, to delivering a very consistent live performance night after night, regardless of health. In my book, he gets a lot of credit for that. As a person who appreciates good singing, I've really appreciated that.
As a live singer, I think he knows his limitations even if he doesn't want to focus on them (which from a confidence perspective is wise). For me personally, there was only one Geoff Tate in his prime, and it was pretty unfair on my part, or anyone else's to expect Todd to replicate that. As five years have past now, it's pretty clear his voice is different. He has similar tonal qualities in the upper range, but generally, Todd's voice is thinner and grittier. Because of that, there are certain portions of the QR back catalog that sound amazing when Todd is on, and some songs from the catalog that don't quite sound right, just because the timbre and depth of Todd's voice is simply different. But he has his own voice, and there are some things he can do that Geoff never could, and vice versa.
I have been fortunate enough to have seen Tate live probably 25 times over the years. Todd I've seen 12 or 13. In retrospect, both are more different than people thought they were, and Queensryche is a different animal with each of them at the helm, vocally, and stage presence-wise (Tate is much more dramatic, whereas Todd focuses on crowd interaction). It has changed the band in a live setting drastically. Both good, but different.
Studio:
I'll put it out there -- I think Todd is being vastly underutilized by Queensryche. His vocal style is different than Tate, but because Queensryche fans are so used to Tate, I think the band played it way too safe vocally on both records. And I get that, given realistically how much longer Queensryche likely is going to be around, and the way the fanbase has changed over the years. Condition Human branches out a bit vocally, but it is still very melodic. And Todd is capable of much more. He's basically said that in interviews. This is one area (the studio) I think Todd has yet to blossom in. He's much more of a grittier metal vocalist than an operatic singer. He prefers to add grit, but in Queensryche, he focuses on singing as clean as he can. And that is evident on both records.
For me personally, it's really hard to evaluate Todd as a studio singer in Queensryche, because I honestly don't think he's really shown on a Queensryche album what he's capable of. He's more Phil Anselmo meets Bruce Dickinson than Geoff Tate. And the fact he CAN emulate the 80s era Tate pretty faithfully speaks volumes. But that's not his sweet spot. And if he gets around to releasing a solo record, he'll be in his vocal element and have the chance to show people what he can do.
Lyrically, it seems like Todd and Eddie are the primary lyricists now. It's really a personal thing, ya know? Everyone interprets lyrics in their own way. So I can't really judge, except to say that I really preferred the lyrical combination of Tate and DeGarmo much more. And that's in no way negative toward Queensryche now. I just prefer the classic lyric duo (over Tate doing it all as well, like he did from 1999-2011).
In a nutshell, I think Todd has had very sharp peaks and valleys singing for Queensryche over the past almost five years. But he's now settled into a spot where I think he knows his voice, and knows what he needs to do to be consistent night after night. And that's really a positive for those that are still passionate about the current lineup of the band.
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If I went into a coma in 1995, and woke up after Todd Joined the band, listening wise, I would've never known it was a different guy.
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I don't really listen to the Todd-ryche anymore. I was excited when Todd was announced as the singer, especially after hearing some of his original stuff on his website, but that isn't the case anymore.
its great he can sing the old stuff, for the most part, the way Tate did, but it seems he has an easier time with the old stuff then with the new songs he's written with the band. most of the live clips I've seen of him singing the new material is hard to listen to.
I also think QR is a better band when they aren't "metal", and I think Todd is more "metal" than the rest of the guys. I like the more emotional feel the band had during the Mindcrime-PL albums. Of course DeGarmo was a main reason for a lot of that, so it is what it is.
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On the whole I think Todd's great. He put on a great performance out here last year - saved himself a bit for some of the key high notes and nailed them.
I agree that he does sound constrained with the new material compared to how he opens up live on the old stuff. Often a guy like him who has to pace himself live will really go for it on the studio album but I find Todd more impressive in a live environment. It seems they just don't write songs to fully utilise what he can do.
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Live:
I was at those two Rising West shows. Todd La Torre blew me away. Jaw-dropping. Honestly, from a classic Queensryche fan perspective, it was euphoria. No other way to describe the vibe in the room, particularly the first night. There was so much connection because he was a fan who lived and breathed those songs like all of us in the audience, and he delivered them with such conviction that was just so engaging.
I was at the second one. As a minor QR fan, I thought it was awesome, and yes the vibe in the room was killer.
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Live:
I was at those two Rising West shows. Todd La Torre blew me away. Jaw-dropping. Honestly, from a classic Queensryche fan perspective, it was euphoria. No other way to describe the vibe in the room, particularly the first night. There was so much connection because he was a fan who lived and breathed those songs like all of us in the audience, and he delivered them with such conviction that was just so engaging. I'll never forget it. YouTube doesn't do it justice.
I have audio bootlegs of both shows. As my first introduction to Todd, I was really impressed with him and hoped he'd be joining QR permanently.
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All the talk about Promised Land had me revisiting the album this week. Damn, it's so good. There are so many layers to it. However, I was curious if someone can share their thoughts on the meaning of the song "Lady Jane"?
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All the talk about Promised Land had me revisiting the album this week. Damn, it's so good. There are so many layers to it. However, I was curious if someone can share their thoughts on the meaning of the song "Lady Jane"?
I just re-read my own analysis of the record, song-by-song, and that was the one song that confused the shit out of me. I went everywhere from thinking it was about a newborn, to an imprisoned young woman, to wondering if it was related to Lady Jane Grey of England, to finally deciding that DeGarmo was high as a fucking kite and all those words tumbled out. :lol
So there you go. :rollin
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That works for me. :lol
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All the talk about Promised Land had me revisiting the album this week. Damn, it's so good. There are so many layers to it. However, I was curious if someone can share their thoughts on the meaning of the song "Lady Jane"?
I just re-read my own analysis of the record, song-by-song, and that was the one song that confused the shit out of me. I went everywhere from thinking it was about a newborn, to an imprisoned young woman, to wondering if it was related to Lady Jane Grey of England, to finally deciding that DeGarmo was high as a fucking kite and all those words tumbled out. :lol
So there you go. :rollin
Because he's a pilot, right? ;)
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All the talk about Promised Land had me revisiting the album this week. Damn, it's so good. There are so many layers to it. However, I was curious if someone can share their thoughts on the meaning of the song "Lady Jane"?
I just re-read my own analysis of the record, song-by-song, and that was the one song that confused the shit out of me. I went everywhere from thinking it was about a newborn, to an imprisoned young woman, to wondering if it was related to Lady Jane Grey of England, to finally deciding that DeGarmo was high as a fucking kite and all those words tumbled out. :lol
So there you go. :rollin
Because he's a pilot, right? ;)
Well, I mean, SOME people fly. And some of us worry.
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I just re-read my own analysis of the record, song-by-song, and that was the one song that confused the shit out of me. I went everywhere from thinking it was about a newborn, to an imprisoned young woman, to wondering if it was related to Lady Jane Grey of England, to finally deciding that DeGarmo was high as a fucking kite and all those words tumbled out. :lol
So there you go. :rollin
Oh, right! Your "high as a kite" remark reminded me that someone once suggested to me it was about weed, hence the title "Lady JANE." Personally, I remember getting the impression back in the day that the song was about a sexually abused child. You know, the eerie playground sounds in the beginning, the "close voice" of Tate, and the lyrics "we're playing a new game," "feeling rather warm inside" and "are you smiling or afraid?" I just get a creepy predatory vibe, but the girl is too young to realize what was really happening. I mean, a lot of the songs on the album are about emotional struggles and damaged psyches -- from the mental health theme of "Out of Mind" to the pills and surgery of "Disconnected" to the family issues in "Bridge." A song about abuse would fit into that concept, I think. But who knows. I could be way off.
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I just re-read my own analysis of the record, song-by-song, and that was the one song that confused the shit out of me. I went everywhere from thinking it was about a newborn, to an imprisoned young woman, to wondering if it was related to Lady Jane Grey of England, to finally deciding that DeGarmo was high as a fucking kite and all those words tumbled out. :lol
So there you go. :rollin
Oh, right! Your "high as a kite" remark reminded me that someone once suggested to me it was about weed, hence the title "Lady JANE." Personally, I remember getting the impression back in the day that the song was about a sexually abused child. You know, the eerie playground sounds in the beginning, the "close voice" of Tate, and the lyrics "we're playing a new game," "feeling rather warm inside" and "are you smiling or afraid?" I just get a creepy predatory vibe, but the girl is too young to realize what was really happening. I mean, a lot of the songs on the album are about emotional struggles and damaged psyches -- from the mental health theme of "Out of Mind" to the pills and surgery of "Disconnected" to the family issues in "Bridge." A song about abuse would fit into that concept, I think. But who knows. I could be way off.
It would for sure. Sort of creepy to think about, but yeah. although the end of the song always said something else to me:
"Yesterday seemed very dark, but now it's bright,
your clouds have gone away.
Sensory perception peaking at this time,
electric waves of sound are filling Janie's mind today
calling out to Janie as you drift away, "Don't be afraid,
they're only your illusion anyway."
Lady Jane your eyes are wide today.
and we're sure you won't forget the things
you've seen today!
>>>>Sensory perception peaks as a baby. Again, the whole tune, lyrically is weird. Musically, I always thought it had a cool RFO vibe to it, to a degree.
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Thanks for posting about it, bosk. And thanks to anyone who read it. I wish I had a blog functionality on the site to enable comments, but I don't.
PL is such an oddity to me. If you look at it as a snapshot, it was exactly opposite of what Empire was. But when you look at it a little closer, it actually is a natural evolution musically for the band. Lyrically, PL was absolutely brilliant (despite being written in such a difficult point for the band members other than Chris, personally), and such a raw introspective look at things the band was going through (or at least Tate).
The funny thing for me personally is that like I am sure many, I didn't get it at first and was disappointed with it. I was in college, and living at home. I remember not knowing the release date, but stopping by the local music shop on my way home from class, and seeing it was out that particular day. I didn't get paid until Friday, so my mother loaned me $20 to go get the CD. I got it home, put it on, and was crushed. LOL. I tried again a day or two later, at night, with headphones, and it clicked, and I never looked back. The older I get, the more I appreciate it, which was exactly what Tate said over the years.
Bands get lucky to have a "timeless" record. Records that are so good, that they really don't become "dated" due to production, lyrics, and style. Queensryche has not one, but TWO of those. Mindcrime and Promised Land. Pretty incredible if you think about it. I totally get why some people may not like it. But it's a hell of an emotional ride for 48 minutes.
I pretty much agree with this (I'd choose Livecrime over Mindcrime though) Promised Land is probably my favorite Queensryche studio album of all-time. The reason that I didn't give it much time at first was that Awake came out around the same time and I never gave Promised Land the time it needed to click with me for a while. So it was the textbook definition of a slow burner. I loved that tour. I'd seen the previous two tours and for me this one blew those tours away. Would have loved a live album/ video from it.
As far as the singles go. I agree there were mistakes made, but I'm not sure it would have mattered much given how the radio landscape was changing and becoming more fragmented in those four years.
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I loved that tour. I'd seen the previous two tours and for me this one blew those tours away. Would have loved a live album/ video from it.
Totally agree. As much as I don't care for the album, the show was amazing. Out Of Mind is kind of lame on the album, but live, outdoors on a hot July night, it was perfect.
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So a show from last week in Paris just went up on Dime. Here is the setlist:
01 - Intro
02 - Guardian
03 - Operation: Mindcrime
04 - Best I Can
05 - Damaged
06 - The Killing Words
07 - The Mission
08 - Silent Lucidity
09 - I Don't Believe in Love
10 - Empire
11 - Queen of the Reich
12 - Jet City Woman
13 - Take Hold of the Flame
14 - Screaming in Digital
15 - Eyes of a Stranger
So, not that every song isn't great, but this "let's get one new song out of the way first" thing is lame. It's a great collection of songs, but what are we doing here?
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So a show from last week in Paris just went up on Dime. Here is the setlist:
01 - Intro
02 - Guardian
03 - Operation: Mindcrime
04 - Best I Can
05 - Damaged
06 - The Killing Words
07 - The Mission
08 - Silent Lucidity
09 - I Don't Believe in Love
10 - Empire
11 - Queen of the Reich
12 - Jet City Woman
13 - Take Hold of the Flame
14 - Screaming in Digital
15 - Eyes of a Stranger
So, not that every song isn't great, but this "let's get one new song out of the way first" thing is lame. It's a great collection of songs, but what are we doing here?
If they don't believe in the new songs they can't expect their fanbase to believe in them, either.
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While I agree with that sentiment, PowerSlave, playing a new song first is probably not a wise move (just like playing a new song last wouldn't be either).
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One token new song. It's like Setlist Affirmative Action.
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While I agree with that sentiment, PowerSlave, playing a new song first is probably not a wise move (just like playing a new song last wouldn't be either).
I'm not really concerned about where they place the new song(but I do agree with you that it probably shouldn't be first). I'm with TAC on the fact that they are only playing one new song. I've never really bothered to get into the new album, but if they were playing more of it live, and I was going to see them I would probably familiarize myself better with the material. I'm sure that other people would do the same. That's not to say that everyone would. The casual fans that only want to hear the hits wouldn't give a shit, but I don't think that the band can maintain themselves on those casual fans, anyways.
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What is too bad is that the last album is actually pretty good.
If they don't believe in the new songs they can't expect their fanbase to believe in them, either.
I could not agree more.
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What is too bad is that the last album is actually pretty good.
I disagree....
(https://media.tenor.com/images/521bb0273fc4907c22d940de9702cba2/tenor.gif)
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While I agree with that sentiment, PowerSlave, playing a new song first is probably not a wise move (just like playing a new song last wouldn't be either).
I'm not really concerned about where they place the new song(but I do agree with you that it probably shouldn't be first). I'm with TAC on the fact that they are only playing one new song. I've never really bothered to get into the new album, but if they were playing more of it live, and I was going to see them I would probably familiarize myself better with the material. I'm sure that other people would do the same. That's not to say that everyone would. The casual fans that only want to hear the hits wouldn't give a shit, but I don't think that the band can maintain themselves on those casual fans, anyways.
Seems to have worked pretty well for the last ~5 years ;D
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While I agree with that sentiment, PowerSlave, playing a new song first is probably not a wise move (just like playing a new song last wouldn't be either).
I'm not really concerned about where they place the new song(but I do agree with you that it probably shouldn't be first). I'm with TAC on the fact that they are only playing one new song. I've never really bothered to get into the new album, but if they were playing more of it live, and I was going to see them I would probably familiarize myself better with the material. I'm sure that other people would do the same. That's not to say that everyone would. The casual fans that only want to hear the hits wouldn't give a shit, but I don't think that the band can maintain themselves on those casual fans, anyways.
Seems to have worked pretty well for the last ~5 years ;D
Yes and no. Yes, in that they've managed to still tour and make their livings from it. But that's just outside looking in. If you take careful note of what's going on, you'll see that they are unfortunately needing to tour with other acts now to make ends meet. The people at the local show last November that were around me (say the 10 in front and the 10 in back), it sounded like they all had Groupons, and groupons were being talked about by security -- so many people having discounted tickets at the show. Groupons and discounted tickets have become commonplace, but this was the first I had heard of it for this version of Queensryche.
Add to that personal knowledge that their guarantees were headed south three years ago (and assuming, based on the above, they still are), it stands to reason that it isn't working as well as they probably hoped.
I'm not trying to be negative, but what I'm saying is, we don't have the complete picture to really tell one way or another how "well" it is working. My guess is, like a lot of bands QR's size, they are struggling to a degree from the glut of bands out on the road and smaller guarantees. Queensryche isn't the only one, either. This is probably why, as much as I hate seeing them play casino gigs, why they do it. Because those come with a lot of cash, which tides them over from the lower guarantees they get when they actually tour for themselves.
In my opinion, the band is damned if they do (play more new material) and damned if they don't. If they do, sure, hardcores will get into it. If they don't, casual fans get to relive their glory years, and the hardcores see "Empire" for the millionth time. However, all that said, I don't think Queensryche really gave the self-titled (2013) record or Condition Human their proper exposure. I just don't think the records were marketed and promoted well. The setlists have something to do with it, but it's more than that.
When they dropped QR 2013, instead of focusing on that and pushing it, they continued with the whole "Return to History" thing. While that was cool for some who hadn't seen it, it also, after having done it for over a year at that point, had them trekking down the path of nostalgia again. And I think they got lost in it. They did the same thing on Condition Human to a degree, although I think by the end, they were playing four songs in a 15 song set, so that's at least decent representation as a headliner.
But because they are playing as a co-headliner (with Saint) those set times are really short for QR, and as a result, newer songs get cut. So it's all circular. In addition, I really didn't see the label really market Queensryche's new material that well. And when Queensryche itself doesn't really market it well, then you slip backward to a degree. And that's what has happened to them in my opinion.
It's a bummer, honestly. The material on QR 2013 and Condition Human is pretty good, and miles better than Dedicated to Chaos, and I think it deserved more exposure and success. But from the outside looking in, it seems as though they feel in order to make ends meet, they need to straddle that line between forcing their newer material out there, and catering to those that only want to hear the hits. I'd argue they made the wrong choice in that regard, but there's too many unknown variables to really say that with any sort of conviction.
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I loved that tour. I'd seen the previous two tours and for me this one blew those tours away. Would have loved a live album/ video from it.
Totally agree. As much as I don't care for the album, the show was amazing. Out Of Mind is kind of lame on the album, but live, outdoors on a hot July night, it was perfect.
I think I'm going to go look for a prime cut Promised Land gig on you tube (After this Kings X gig I'm watching is over). That tour was so good I broke my rule for only buying Rush,Dream Theater and Fish/Marillion videos.
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Just want to let You Guys know, that the Queensryche Survivor 2017 is coming big steps into us :metal Check Polls/Survivors for details very soon!! Cheers :tup
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Sounds great!!
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Cool news indeed.
B.Lee
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I think I'm going to go look for a prime cut Promised Land gig on you tube (After this Kings X gig I'm watching is over). That tour was so good I broke my rule for only buying Rush,Dream Theater and Fish/Marillion videos.
I watched the San Antonio show the other night. Awesome. What they did for Promised Land was awesome. What a great show.
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I think I'm going to go look for a prime cut Promised Land gig on you tube (After this Kings X gig I'm watching is over). That tour was so good I broke my rule for only buying Rush,Dream Theater and Fish/Marillion videos.
I watched the San Antonio show the other night. Awesome. What they did for Promised Land was awesome. What a great show.
And what a great album. :hat
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I seriously don't know how anyone that was a fan of Queensryche already could think that. It's actually mind boggling to me.
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I am sure we will touch on this more in the discography thread, but Promised Land was a WTF at first for me. It was not what I was expecting, but something about it kept drawing me back, and then it was like one day the light bulb went on and the whole thing just sounded amazing.
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Promised land was also super jarring for me at first and it was like "what the hell is this", but after a few listens and some time with it, I was like "wow, this is really something special".
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Considering the direction of the previous two efforts, I'd say that Promised Land was their most progressive album since RFO, and it was probably their last truly progressive album over all. I know that the word progressive has different meanings to different people, but I'm guessing that most of the core fan-base would agree with that. It's hard to say, though.
Something else that gives the album merit, in my opinion, is that they very easily could have hit the studio and tried to make Empire part two. Instead, they chose to have more integrity than to sticking with what would have been a safe move.
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What Brian says about the two divorces makes sense. It just seems like there was a lack of effort on it.
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What Brian says about the two divorces makes sense. It just seems like there was a lack of effort on it.
The divorces make sense considering how dark the themes of the album are. But lack of effort? I'd say that it took more effort to do something that was so very different than what they'd done before. I can see how some people wouldn't have welcomed the album. They were a very different band than what they were just a few years prior as far as writing ect...
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Well, this band fell off a cliff for me and the following album didn't help either.
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Have you tried to revisit the album? I know that has worked for me in the past. A good example for me is A Matter of Life and Death from maiden. I could care less about it for a long time, then someone was discussing it on this forum a few years ago, so I gave it another listen. Now it's one of my favorite records.
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Have you tried to revisit the album?
For 20 years, man. I'll listen to it next week for the discog thread. Have already listened to the tracks I like already.
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Have you tried to revisit the album?
For 20 years, man. I'll listen to it next week for the discog thread. Have already listened to the tracks I like already.
It's nowhere near a go to album and there's too many songs that are just boring, and their first ever shit song (Disconnected, I'm looking at you , you pile of shite). There is good stuff there too though. It just took a long time to find it.
And I even hated the shitty folded over so it won't fit back in the slots of the jewel case booklet 😡
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I actually dig Disconnected and find that it always gets stuck in my head, but I can definitely see why its not liked.
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I am sure we will touch on this more in the discography thread, but Promised Land was a WTF at first for me. It was not what I was expecting, but something about it kept drawing me back, and then it was like one day the light bulb went on and the whole thing just sounded amazing.
Yeah, we'll get to it soon. Next week. for the record, I totally get why some people don't like Promised Land. I didn't at first either...and then one night it hit me, and I never looked back.
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Looks like Tate and QR said hello and had a little hug...
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-says-he-had-a-nice-little-reunion-with-queensryche-in-spain-calls-todd-la-torre-a-fantastic-singer/
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/geoff_tate_reacts_to_first_time_seeing_queensryche_perform_without_him.html
Nice to see him being supportive and complimentary of La Torre.
Let the "reunion" rumors commence. :lol
Personally, I think the only way Tate and Queensryche reunite is if DeGarmo is on board and it is a final album and full tour together -- putting a bow on the whole thing, and bowing out on a positive note, with all five together. The earliest it would probably happen, in my opinion, is next year. But I think it's more likely for 2020, being Empire's 30th anniversary.
PURELY all guess work and speculation. But following the almighty dollar...
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Nice to see them finally at a place where they can at least speak civilly and professionally about one another.
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Nice to see them finally at a place where they can at least speak civilly and professionally about one another.
Agreed. Really was cool that Tate was so complimentary about La Torre. He should be. It wasn't La Torre's fault what happened with Queensryche. And TLT has done an admirable job.
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Nice to see Tate can be an adult about this now.
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Nice to see them finally at a place where they can at least speak civilly and professionally about one another.
Agreed. Really was cool that Tate was so complimentary about La Torre. He should be. It wasn't La Torre's fault what happened with Queensryche. And TLT has done an admirable job.
Yes. But there were still some snarky lyrics on the s/t album that could potentially have been taken as La Torre throwing down the gauntlet.
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Nice to see them finally at a place where they can at least speak civilly and professionally about one another.
Agreed. Really was cool that Tate was so complimentary about La Torre. He should be. It wasn't La Torre's fault what happened with Queensryche. And TLT has done an admirable job.
Yes. But there were still some snarky lyrics on the s/t album that could potentially have been taken as La Torre throwing down the gauntlet.
Well, sure. But lyrics can be interpreted a number of different ways, as you well know. Don't get me started, I'm being positive, remember? :lol
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No, I know. I'm just saying, it could have caused bad blood.
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Nice to see them finally at a place where they can at least speak civilly and professionally about one another.
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I am sure we will touch on this more in the discography thread, but Promised Land was a WTF at first for me. It was not what I was expecting, but something about it kept drawing me back, and then it was like one day the light bulb went on and the whole thing just sounded amazing.
Yeah, we'll get to it soon. Next week. for the record, I totally get why some people don't like Promised Land. I didn't at first either...and then one night it hit me, and I never looked back.
PL was definitely different and it took a while to grow on me. It's a great album. HITNF was more a "WTF" for me and pretty much still is. It was all downhill from there.
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Promised Land registered with me from first listen and I loved and still love the album and would rank it top three of the original lineup output. HITNF I kind of forced myself , I think to subconsciously love it when it came out, but it's luster wore off and aside from three or four songs it rarely gets played these days. The tour for HITNF was great though. Nowhere near as good as the Promised Land tour though.
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Nice to see them finally at a place where they can at least speak civilly and professionally about one another.
This.
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No, I know. I'm just saying, it could have caused bad blood.
Worse than Tate's FU album title?
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No, I know. I'm just saying, it could have caused bad blood.
Worse than Tate's FU album title?
What's wrong with entitling an album "Foamy Unicorns"? ??? :biggrin:
B.Lee
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Whip needs some cash - selling an amp used on the Promised Land recording. Maybe it's time to make a payment to Tate. :)
https://reverb.com/item/3759380-michael-wilton-of-queensryche-fender-twin-reverb-1963-black?utm_campaign=FBshare&utm_medium=FB&utm_source=FBshare
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No, I know. I'm just saying, it could have caused bad blood.
Worse than Tate's FU album title?
What's wrong with entitling an album "Foamy Unicorns"? ??? :biggrin:
B.Lee
:rollin
Whip needs some cash - selling an amp used on the Promised Land recording. Maybe it's time to make a payment to Tate. :)
https://reverb.com/item/3759380-michael-wilton-of-queensryche-fender-twin-reverb-1963-black?utm_campaign=FBshare&utm_medium=FB&utm_source=FBshare
I saw that. In all seriousness, earlier this summer he and his wife sold their long-time home they bought in 1992.. Both of their kids have gotten married and moved out, so they were downsizing. Whip is a gear hoarder (he'd be the first to tell you that - lol), so he probably just doesn't have space to keep all this stuff. Wilton literally kept every piece of gear he ever used. His guitar collection is ridiculous. :lol
No, I know. I'm just saying, it could have caused bad blood.
Worse than Tate's FU album title?
That WAS pretty bad.
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Whip needs some cash - selling an amp used on the Promised Land recording. Maybe it's time to make a payment to Tate. :)
https://reverb.com/item/3759380-michael-wilton-of-queensryche-fender-twin-reverb-1963-black?utm_campaign=FBshare&utm_medium=FB&utm_source=FBshare
I saw that. In all seriousness, earlier this summer he and his wife sold their long-time home they bought in 1992.. Both of their kids have gotten married and moved out, so they were downsizing. Whip is a gear hoarder (he'd be the first to tell you that - lol), so he probably just doesn't have space to keep all this stuff. Wilton literally kept every piece of gear he ever used. His guitar collection is ridiculous. :lol
That's what I truly figured - it seems that more musicians are starting to sell off some unused equipment (like Jon Schaffer ditching a bunch of guitars to finance the Iced Earth HQ building) that they no longer need. I get not having the space, since my CD collection is now boxed up in my basement after running out of room in my house.
Hopefully some fan with some cash can enjoy owning something that was used to record Promised Land.
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As the thread title suggests.... and applies now, VERY stoked for the upcoming new album that is in progress. Queensryche 2013 and Condition Human were both outstanding albums and IMO better from a "complete album" standpoint than anything since Promised Land. Can't wait to hear what is next on the third chapter of this lineup. Todd seems to be getting better and better and it is also evidenced in the live shows.
Also very interested in hearing Todd's solo album which hopefully will be out next year. The wait sucks, hoping for an early 2018 release date for the new Queensryche album :metal
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Whip needs some cash - selling an amp used on the Promised Land recording. Maybe it's time to make a payment to Tate. :)
https://reverb.com/item/3759380-michael-wilton-of-queensryche-fender-twin-reverb-1963-black?utm_campaign=FBshare&utm_medium=FB&utm_source=FBshare
I saw that. In all seriousness, earlier this summer he and his wife sold their long-time home they bought in 1992.. Both of their kids have gotten married and moved out, so they were downsizing. Whip is a gear hoarder (he'd be the first to tell you that - lol), so he probably just doesn't have space to keep all this stuff. Wilton literally kept every piece of gear he ever used. His guitar collection is ridiculous. :lol
That's what I truly figured - it seems that more musicians are starting to sell off some unused equipment (like Jon Schaffer ditching a bunch of guitars to finance the Iced Earth HQ building) that they no longer need. I get not having the space, since my CD collection is now boxed up in my basement after running out of room in my house.
Hopefully some fan with some cash can enjoy owning something that was used to record Promised Land.
Yup, that's all it likely is. Pretty smart on Wilton's part. Rockenfield has sold drum kits for years for tidy sums. What I thought was really cool (not being a musician) is some of the artwork he had packed away from The Warning. Did you see the cover art ideas the people that run their FB posted? If not, check it out, it's also on AnybodyListening.net:
https://anybodylistening.net/thewarning.html (scroll down)
Some really weird art. To be honest, I don't like any of it, including the final album cover. It all looks a bit cheesy to me. I think out of all if it, I prefer the one with the grim reaper guy against the mountains with the nighttime sky/stars, and the final album cover the best.
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If I went into a coma in 1995, and woke up after Todd Joined the band, listening wise, I would've never known it was a different guy.
More like 2007 for me :rollin but I did continue to go the live shows. But record wise absolutely, not much to get excited about following Tribe until Todd joined. OM II was a letdown of grand proportions.
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I love that Scott auctioned off the Rising West kit. If I had that kind of discretionary cash, that is something I would have pounced on.
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Same here. Would have looked good in my rec room :sad:
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I love that Scott auctioned off the Rising West kit. If I had that kind of discretionary cash, that is something I would have pounced on.
He's auctioned off a bunch of stuff. His kit from Live in Tokyo, the RW kit, a few others too. I do believe he auctioned off Building Empires (with the chains) as well. Not entirely sure, but I think so.
I think I remember hearing from Jason Slater that doing so hurt Scott with the drum companies a bit -- them getting a bit peeved that the stuff they gave him is being sold off. I'm not sure in music, but I do know in regard to a couple of different sports, if you're endorsed by a company, they usually make you agree not to sell off what they give you -- you can donate it, give it as a gift, but not sell. It may be different in music.
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Of everything he has had over the years, the only ones I would be interested in would be the RW kit and the Empire kit (if he did auction that one). But realistically, there's nowhere I could put the Empire kit because of its size, so...
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...or the Warning kit. That and Empire would look great in my basement.
I'm actually not familiar with the Rising West kit.
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I'm actually not familiar with the Rising West kit.
https://assets.blabbermouth.net/media/risingwestkit.jpg
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Cool, thank you.
I love looking at drumsets.
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I love that Scott auctioned off the Rising West kit. If I had that kind of discretionary cash, that is something I would have pounced on.
Bosk, as a consolation, these are available!
https://bravewords.com/news/sebastian-bach-selling-stage-worn-boots
:lol
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:lol Yeah, I'll pass. I like Bas well enough, but I don't have a need for someone else's worn out boots.
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As Nicko says, "Fuck my old boots." :lol
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He just may have. They look like they've been around the block more than once.
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He did say something about holes in the soles.
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Looks like the band has added a couple of oldies into the set:
Anarchy-X/Revolution Calling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVWgjGr5Wbc)
Surgical Strike (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkvHWVjwYOM)
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Awesome, can't wait till Friday.
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Looks like the band has added a couple of oldies into the set:
Anarchy-X/Revolution Calling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVWgjGr5Wbc)
Surgical Strike (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkvHWVjwYOM)
Nice additions, hopefully they stay in the set list for a while, be seeing them soon :metal
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Looks like the band has added a couple of oldies into the set:
Anarchy-X/Revolution Calling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVWgjGr5Wbc)
Surgical Strike (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkvHWVjwYOM)
Very cool. Two of my all-time favorites (top-20 for sure, with Rev being top-10).
Casey Grillo has done a real good job on drums. He doesn't have the same feel as Rockenfield, and it's different, but I watched a few performances pretty intently, and it's obvious he's really worked hard to get it right (comparing his first gig to the last couple). Miss Scott Rock, but I think Casey has upped his profile a bit. Rock's parts aren't run of the mill, and while neither are Kamelot's, I think QR's are a bit more challenging. I'm wondering when Scott will return, however. It's been what, four or five months now?
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So here's Todd's explanation of how meeting Geoff went. It's nice to know that everyone can be civil now that time has passed. And for something you don't see everyday, and honestly have never seen before, the videos show Tate standing stage left, watching QR perform...without him.
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-recounts-face-to-face-encounter-with-geoff-tate-he-told-me-i-was-amazing/
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That was a nice read and an interesting thing to see. :tup
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Geoff has seemed quite chilled recently in the interviews I've seen. Maybe he's enjoying life. His voice seems better than it's been too.
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Yeah, good read. I thought Todd was spot on in his compliments as well, both recognizing Geoff's current limitations and the reality of that, while also recognizing his legacy and what he achieved, and how Todd's vocals are also different. As similar as Todd can sound to Geoff, he is distinctly different in some of the stuff he does, both in terms of what he can bring to the table and where he is limited. I know for me, for where the band is now, I prefer Todd's style, even to what Tate could do in his prime if we could somehow bring that version of Geoff Tate back into the band. I mean, back then, Geoff was untouchable. But the more aggressive tone better suits them now, even if some of the smoothness is sacrificed.
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So here's Todd's explanation of how meeting Geoff went. It's nice to know that everyone can be civil now that time has passed. And for something you don't see everyday, and honestly have never seen before, the videos show Tate standing stage left, watching QR perform...without him.
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-recounts-face-to-face-encounter-with-geoff-tate-he-told-me-i-was-amazing/
What was nice to see was the healing process has started. Nothing may come of it except some smiles and good feelings. Or, it could be the start of a reunion. Time will tell. At this point, it really doesn't matter, ya know?
As for comparing both, look, five years in to the TLT-era of Queensryche, it's pretty easy to spot the differences between the two. Todd said it himself in that interview when he admitted he has trouble with the Empire material. There's an element of depth, power, and control to Geoff's voice that Todd simply doesn't have. And Todd, obviously, has better range (now) than Tate, and can sing the EP-RFO material pretty "easily." But starting with bits of Mindcrime, and most certainly with Empire, that's where TLT's vocals start to get exposed. But he does the best he can, and does a decent job on that stuff. It isn't easy, despite not being AS rangy. It's built for Tate's voice, not his.
Anyway, it's good that they all reconnected. They should. Whether it leads to anything in the future, who knows. As a fan, it won't matter to me unless it's a reunion of the original five guys. I don't see a point in reuniting with Tate unless you reunite with DeGarmo too. It's not gonna bring in more money with just Tate, so there's no business reason to do it, and obviously, there's likely still a disconnect musically...so IMO they are better apart from a creative standpoint for now (they obviously like what La Torre does as a songwriter). But at least the healing process between Tate and the band has started. And Tate deserves at least some credit for initiating it.
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You know, for all the talk about the patching up and moving on, I was just reminded of something that ticks me off as a I unintentionally revisited it this morning. And that is the fact that Tate released Frequency Unknown as a "Queensryche" album to deliberately create confusion. I mean, the stuff between him and the band, such as spitting on Scott and knocking over his drums, physically assaulting Whip, etc. is inexcusable. But ultimately, that's between him and those guys. But the deliberate band name confusion still continues to this day, as I was reminded when I visited the Queensryche discography page and saw F.U. listed, which it unequivocally should not be. Really pisses me off.
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You know, for all the talk about the patching up and moving on, I was just reminded of something that ticks me off as a I unintentionally revisited it this morning. And that is the fact that Tate released Frequency Unknown as a "Queensryche" album to deliberately create confusion. I mean, the stuff between him and the band, such as spitting on Scott and knocking over his drums, physically assaulting Whip, etc. is inexcusable. But ultimately, that's between him and those guys. But the deliberate band name confusion still continues to this day, as I was reminded when I visited the Queensryche discography page and saw F.U. listed, which it unequivocally should not be. Really pisses me off.
I always thought of it as him trying to lay claim to the band name, but I can definitely see your point.
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You know, for all the talk about the patching up and moving on, I was just reminded of something that ticks me off as a I unintentionally revisited it this morning. And that is the fact that Tate released Frequency Unknown as a "Queensryche" album to deliberately create confusion. I mean, the stuff between him and the band, such as spitting on Scott and knocking over his drums, physically assaulting Whip, etc. is inexcusable. But ultimately, that's between him and those guys. But the deliberate band name confusion still continues to this day, as I was reminded when I visited the Queensryche discography page and saw F.U. listed, which it unequivocally should not be. Really pisses me off.
I always thought of it as him trying to lay claim to the band name, but I can definitely see your point.
Well, yeah, exactly. And he had no right to try to lay claim to the band name whatsoever. And he knew that.
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Isn't F.U. released as a QR album old news? I think most everyone is past that now.
I'm looking forward to the next installment. Hopefully they don't decided to do a musical. :lol
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I was a casual Queensryche follower more than I was a fan back when the entire thing with two incarnations of Queensryche took place. I was on team Michael/Scott/Eddie and thought it was truly terrible of Geoff to force out an album under the Queensryche name with musicians he gathered from all over the place, even though I never listened to it.
These days, however, I see it as an interesting point in Queensryche history. The period actually lasted for only a year and it's unusual but intriguing to revisit an era when there were two Queensryches.
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Queensryche kicked ass. Too bad they only played 1:30:00 though.
Skid Row wasn't bad either. ZP Theart was awesome and the energy was there from the start.
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Isn't F.U. released as a QR album old news? I think most everyone is past that now.
I'm looking forward to the next installment. Hopefully they don't decided to do a musical. :lol
There was no confusion if you heard the two albums.
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So, as posted by others, bumping this thread with a hell of a performance by Tate last week:
https://youtu.be/ZdUlJHvET1I
If he continues to sound like this, and if they continue to speak and be on good terms, I wonder if the reunion will actually happen. As I posted in the Tate thread, he hasn't sounded this good in over a decade. Very impressed.
I wonder if professional pride had a lot to do with this. After watching Queensryche perform, and seeing Todd sing all the songs Tate helped write and perform, I have to think it might have had an impact on him. Because damn this is the Tate I think of, vocally.
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It'd be cool, although I wonder if Tate is the type who's capable of relinquishing creative control, as would probably be necessary if he was to reunite with them.
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You have to remember, there's be nothing creative about it. It'd be rehashing old stuff live.
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Personally, I think theyve probably got offers for mindcrime 30th from promoters. And possibly will get together to tour (no chris). Just a feeling. Then pick back up with la torre later.
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Without Chris, what is the point?
I think if I was younger, I might feel different, but I don't know. Queensryche lost their integrity a long time ago.
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I was actually thinking about Chris when reading the Tribe writeup. It probably would've happened by now, but is there any chance that Chris would be interested in a Queensryche without Geoff or is he pretty much done with music at this point?
Anyway I feel the same way as you TAC. I was interested in what they were doing when Geoff left, but the self titled album really killed my interest in them. That was like the final nail in the coffin for me. I will say that the Queensryche discog has resparked my interest a ton, so we'll see what happens.
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I like the Todd stuff, though I felt the s/t was a little safe. I just wished the band liked the new stuff as much as I did.
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Condition Human was freakin awesome.
Not quite classic material. But absolutely worthy of being an official follow-up to Promised Land.
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I was actually thinking about Chris when reading the Tribe writeup. It probably would've happened by now, but is there any chance that Chris would be interested in a Queensryche without Geoff or is he pretty much done with music at this point?
He released that EP with his daughter a couple of years ago. There was a Billboard article on it, I think. I don't know if they've done anything together since then, though.
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Cool, I'll have to look into that.
I didn't bother with Condition Human, but I'm now looking forward to it in the discography thread.
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Mosh, Condition Human is excellent. I still thought they had something to prove after the s/t/ I wasn't totally convinced. But CH is a huge step up. I think they still have much more to give though.
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https://youtu.be/ZdUlJHvET1I
I couldn't make out the vocals properly in that clip, but I found this individual video of EOAS where he actually goes for the "mirror never lies" note in the last chorus (4:12): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rE5msUnJRM That caught me off guard and I wonder when was the last time he managed to do it.
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So, as posted by others, bumping this thread with a hell of a performance by Tate last week:
https://youtu.be/ZdUlJHvET1I
If he continues to sound like this, and if they continue to speak and be on good terms, I wonder if the reunion will actually happen. As I posted in the Tate thread, he hasn't sounded this good in over a decade. Very impressed.
I wonder if professional pride had a lot to do with this. After watching Queensryche perform, and seeing Todd sing all the songs Tate helped write and perform, I have to think it might have had an impact on him. Because damn this is the Tate I think of, vocally.
WOW I thought Geoff couldn't have a performance like that anymore. Indeed, VERY impressive!
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He sounds better, yeah. but he is in a position now with the last few records tanking and putting himself in a position where it is going to be difficult to secure a record deal going forward once this third chapter of the Trilogy no doubt follows suit and does nothing sales wise. It is apparent that when it comes to anything resembling metal, there is no inspiration or creativity left. His best option seems to be at this point to put some work into his vocals and attempt to gain a few more asses back in the seats of his live shows by putting on better performances so he can make it financially doable to continue performing and touring. He no doubt must have a Mindcrime 30th Anniversary tour on his radar, so it would be wise to work on improving it's quality live.
As for that 30th anniversary tour being with Queesryche, No Thanks. Hopefully this upcoming new Queensryche album with Todd will cement that in stone and bury that idea. I don't want him anywhere near Queensryche again, as I could see that ultimately being the end of the band and that would be very unfortunate as they finally have found their way again releasing quality material and putting on energetic and heavy shows once more and ENJOYING IT, not just going through the motions like they had with Geoff for those last several years.
Operation Mindcrime has been done to death, I for one really don't even feel the necessity of having it done in it's entirety yet again to begin with. It's not like it hasn't been done in several years, at this point it is no longer a special occasion, it has been milked to death five times over. If Geoff and his band want to do it, that's great. let him do it by himself. I would go see it. I don't need to see him back with Queensryche for so much as a short special tour at this point. A definitive NO THANKS! :biggrin:
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Without Chris, what is the point?
I think if I was younger, I might feel different, but I don't know. Queensryche lost their integrity a long time ago.
I agree Tim. At this point, there really is no point. Oh wait... :lol
Mosh, Condition Human is excellent. I still thought they had something to prove after the s/t/ I wasn't totally convinced. But CH is a huge step up. I think they still have much more to give though.
This too.
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Personally, I have no interest in any sort of reunion of Queensryche and Geoff Tate unless it was with DeGarmo. If it is just Geoff, that doesn't really excite me as a fan. Been there, done that more times than I can count.
While I am not AS high on Queensryche with La Torre as some are, the fact of the matter is, I think most fans are pleased with the new music (those that aren't on the "no Tate, no QR" bandwagon). The self-titled album and Condition Human are much better than D2C, and much better than anything Tate has made outside of Queensryche.
That said, however, I don't personally feel any of that matters to Queensryche. What matters is the almighty dollar, in my opinion. And if promoters come calling, offering decent money for performing Operation: MIndcrime in 2018 with Tate reunited with Queensryche, and the amount is sizeable enough, I think it'll happen.
But again, the amount has to be big enough. What always seems to be clear with Queensryche in the post-CDG years is -- if the money is there, they will do it. When they tapped La Torre to replace Tate, it was amid declining revenue, and watching their bottom line get smaller and smaller because of the payroll and other factors. So, they wiped that clean, got La Torre, and tried to get everything as maxed out as they could on profit.
My gut feeling is that they are coming to another fork in the road. The guarantees are likely getting smaller (they are for many bands, not just Queensryche), and it is getting tougher and tough to book a profitable tour (which is why they do all these fly-in casino gigs and such -- they pay well, and don't cost much to get there and back).
So, again I say, IF the offers and guarantees from the promoters are there, I would bet Tate and QR would reunite for it, to make that money. Will it happen? I have no idea. I think it depends on the following factors:
1. The right amount of guaranteed money and shows from promoters
2. The right agreement between Tate and the band principals (Jackson, Wilton, Rockenfield)
3. How it would impact the relationship between La Torre and the band (assuming this would be a temporary thing if indeed the possibility came up).
As I said earlier, I'm not personally interested in it, if it indeed came up. But if the offers come in, I'd bet they'd jump on it in a heartbeat.
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I have no desire to see Tate in Queensryche AND I have no desire to see Mindcrime again. And let's face it, I can give that Tate sounded decent on those clips that were just shown. But that was downtuned, and he did NOT sound "great" on anything I heard. How would he sound doing all of Mindcrime as part of a larger set of QR material? No thanks. But as much as Mindcrime has been done to death over the years, and as much as I don't care to see a reunion, even if it is for a tour, I would go see something like this if it were realistic (but I do not see that it could be): A small string of dates where the current lineup of Queensryche plays a full set, and then the entire original lineup (Tate and DeGarmo) play Mindcrime, and then maybe the combined lineup for an encore.
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I have no desire to see Tate in Queensryche AND I have no desire to see Mindcrime again. And let's face it, I can give that Tate sounded decent on those clips that were just shown. But that was downtuned, and he did NOT sound "great" on anything I heard. How would he sound doing all of Mindcrime as part of a larger set of QR material? No thanks. But as much as Mindcrime has been done to death over the years, and as much as I don't care to see a reunion, even if it is for a tour, I would go see something like this if it were realistic (but I do not see that it could be): A small string of dates where the current lineup of Queensryche plays a full set, and then the entire original lineup (Tate and DeGarmo) play Mindcrime, and then maybe the combined lineup for an encore.
We disagree on the quality of what was in those clips. You might not have the ability to listen to the entire thing with the volume up, but you should. Yes, it is downtuned, but it has been since 1999. The quality of Tate's voice is up, and he really did well here. Your reaction was mine at first...until I cranked it up and listened closely.
As for your tour idea -- to be honest, bosk1, I think there would be too many egos involved for something like that. But hey, stranger things have happened. :lol
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Yeah, as I said, I don't believe it is realistic. Just throwing out there what it would probably take to get me to a show.
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Very good point Bosk, How can anyone think now that the band is used to playing everything back at pretty much full speed again for the last five years that it could possibly workout with Tate being able to handle that over multiple shows and a full show of Mindcrime plus the rest of a full show.
Then you factor in that the general perception is, that quite a lot, if not most CURRENT fans are happy with the current lineup as is, and the fact that Mindcrime has already been milked so many times and he (Tate) even continues to milk and play a good portion of the album, and Queensryche currently plays some of those songs. Is there any chance that at this stage of the game, given all of those factors, that there could possibly even be a demand for such a thing? would there really be any significant upgrade of a payday for this at this stage? I personally don't see it. As you mentioned bosk, the factor of, could Tate hold up doing it night after night in a long set??? ...... Lets turn our attention now to Chris DeGarmo.
Chris DeGarmo obviously has no desire to be back out on the road and back in the band or that would have happened years ago, when it had the opportunity to happen (Tribe) or it would have happened after the band split and Tate was gone, or maybe it would have happened after he waited to see if the band could even survive with Todd and see how that situation panned out. It didn't happen. That tells me that it never will happen. Now lets just suppose he's got a little itch.. Hey "One More Time Around" a nice short tour of the original lineup doing Mindcrime and some hits and that closes my book on Queensryche. Well this guy hasn't played live in how long? this guy has been out of action for how many years other than goofing off a little bit with his daughter's project, I highly doubt he prances around the house in his pajamas and night cap, guitar in hand playing Queensryche songs all night before going to work in the morning to fly his planes. What makes anybody think that he can just jump right back on stage and play those songs at this point any better than Parker, who has studied them immensely and worked with Michael on them full time now for what's it been eight years or so now?
So the only justification to the fact would be for nostalgia, because there really is no other quality factor or anything new that such a situation would bring to the table. I thought some people were already complaining about things turning into a nostalgia situation, which in my opinion it isn't because regardless of how many new songs are in their set list they still are at least recording quality new music. If the argument that people don't want them being more of a nostalgia act, if that holds water than it would be the stupidest thing for the band to do is go off track and do a reunion that would be lackluster, awkward, uncomfortable and not in the least enjoyable for the members. Sometimes that extra couple dollars isn't worth it, ask Skid Row. In the case of Skid Row, there might be a significant better pay day for them to suck it up with Bach and do a reunion. Queensryche with Geoff and even DeGarmo, considering all the aforementioned I don't think the payday upgrade would be a very significant one.
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Yeah, as I said, I don't believe it is realistic. Just throwing out there what it would probably take to get me to a show.
Yeah, I hear ya. I'm curious to see what happens next year with all them. Apparently QR has plans to record a new record. I wonder if Scott will actually lay down the tracks, or if Casey Grillo of Kamelot will. And if Scott really will return, like they've said he will. Then, of course, you have the Tate "reunion" with the QR guys in Europe, Tate's improved singing, the 30th Anniversary of Operation: Mindcrime, the third part of Tate's supposed trilogy being released, and then TLT's solo record. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out and where we are at this time next year.
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I am so over Tate it's not even worth discussing. It's been discussed to death. It's over. However, if DeGarmo ever came back (as unlikely as that may be), that would be quite interesting. Although, the band is firing all cylinders right now. Should probably leave well enough alone.
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Count me in as having ZERO interest on getting back with Tate. In fact, my renewed interest in the band would fall off the table.
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As for that 30th anniversary tour being with Queesryche, No Thanks. Hopefully this upcoming new Queensryche album with Todd will cement that in stone and bury that idea. I don't want him anywhere near Queensryche again, as I could see that ultimately being the end of the band and that would be very unfortunate as they finally have found their way again releasing quality material and putting on energetic and heavy shows once more and ENJOYING IT, not just going through the motions like they had with Geoff for those last several years.
Operation Mindcrime has been done to death, I for one really don't even feel the necessity of having it done in it's entirety yet again to begin with. It's not like it hasn't been done in several years, at this point it is no longer a special occasion, it has been milked to death five times over. If Geoff and his band want to do it, that's great. let him do it by himself. I would go see it. I don't need to see him back with Queensryche for so much as a short special tour at this point. A definitive NO THANKS! :biggrin:
Couldn't have said it better, please no Tate back in QR, just keep releasing good music with Todd. And I wouldn't even consider watching Tate's band perform Operation Mindcrime.
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Just saw QR last night in Walla Walla Washington at the County Fair. 90 minute show at a pretty small stage with a standing crowd, no seats. It allowed me to easily work my way up quite close to the front.
They sounded quite good, and I liked the song selection. Played off the EP (Queen of the Reich), a couple (I think) off of the Warning, a couple off of Rage, 5 off of Mindcrime(!), 2 off of Empire and Damaged off of Promised land. Opened with a song off of Condition Human (I got there at the tail end of the song and forget which song).
Instruments all sounded good, Casey Grillo filled in for Scott on drums who is on paternity leave, he did a pretty good job, but I really missed Scott. Eddy sounded really good last night, and Todd did a great job with the vocals and fronting the band. Kept thanking us for being there and was quite engaging. Michael sounded great all night. Parker did a good job and sounded good.
Really glad I went, had a great time.
Thanks guys for coming to Walla Walla!!
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Well, if they choose to play only one song from Promised land, Damaged is the way to go. My favorite Queensryche tune, the riff underneath the verses is one of the best riffs I've ever heard.
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the band is currently in the studio putting together a new album.
However.........not sure if Scott is going to be a part of the album or not. Any questions brought up on QR's Facebook are going ignored. If Scott isn't coming back then what is the point?
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I did some googling and found this from December 14: https://www.facebook.com/requiemrock/photos/a.159818904055118.28727.133780499992292/1535471093156552/?type=3&theater
REQUIEM WORKING WITH FIVE-TIME GRAMMY NOMINATED PRODUCER SCOTT ROCKENFIELD OF QUEENSRYCHE ON SECOND FULL-LENGTH ALBUM.
It doesn't mention how far they're into the making of that album though, so maybe Scott had finished his drum tracks for the new QR (assuming he does play on it) by the time he started working on this.
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the band is currently in the studio putting together a new album.
Hurray! Another future missed opportunity in the making!
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(https://image.ibb.co/dGda46/Untitled.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
There's the answer I guess...No Scott :(
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Now I'm officially a bit worried about if Scott is really still in the band. To miss some shows, even a tour, it's one thing, but not recording a new album maybe it's a bit too much... Hoping for the best. Anyway, I'm already missing him in this album. He seemed so recharged with Todd in the band! The last 2 records has some of the best and energetic drumming in the entire Queensryche discography IMO and Scott has such a recognizable style!
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Now I'm officially a bit worried about if Scott is really still in the band. To miss some shows, even a tour, it's one thing, but not recording a new album maybe it's a bit too much... Hoping for the best. Anyway, I'm already missing him in this album. He seemed so recharged with Todd in the band! The last 2 records has some of the best and energetic drumming in the entire Queensryche discography IMO and Scott has such a recognizable style!
Yeah, not having your permanent drummer play on your own album is a really weird arrangement (unless it's health-related like in Nightwish's case), especially when Scott has been working on another band's record as a producer lately. Did the guys not want to wait for him or has he stopped caring about QR? It's a pity if he leaves, because while Casey Grillo sounds alright on the YT videos I've checked out, he leaves out some of Scott's signature fills completely.
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This is kinda strange. I would imagine that recording drums in the studio could be arranged timewise, even if you are on paternal leave.
Maybe MP could offer his services :biggrin:
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You’re right to make that green...but only because I think they would never ask. If the offer were extended (and if he had a window in his schedule), I’d bet MP would love to do it.
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I believe Scott has his own studio so he could still record his drum tracks or had previously recorded them.
Another scenario would be that he wrote and composed most of the songs and wanted to take a step back a bit (which wouldn't make sense).
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I'd likely not even check out the next Queensryche album if Scott is not on it.
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I know most people think Tate is a tool but have they done anything good other than find a good copycat singer since the split? I haven't been following closely enough or really been interested from what I heard. I actually like tribe and thought they were finally starting to evolve...
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I know most people think Tate is a tool but have they done anything good other than find a good copycat singer since the split? I haven't been following closely enough or really been interested from what I heard. I actually like tribe and thought they were finally starting to evolve...
Not sure about the copycat singer. But I do know they hired Todd, who is a fantastic singer. And they have put out two spectacularly good albums. What they have NOT done is seriously promote their new material or take any kind of initiative to capitalize on their situation and reinvigorate the fan base.
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Agreed Bosk (except for those last four words, which I'll elaborate on in a minute), I don't know how anybody who was a fan of this band and stuck around, even a little bit, after Promised Land and up through the years until the split with Tate cannot listen to the last two records and see a miraculous improvement over everything from HITNF forward. That is mind boggling to me. Maybe it only appeals to some of us, I don't know. I can't explain it.
I get it, some people just won't accept a new singer and change. But the songs on the last two records are so much stronger, vocally and musically than anything this band has done in years, YEARS!.
I understand the promotion wasn't what it could have been with these last two records and I guess I kind of agree with that. Initiative and capitalization are questionable. They did jump on the Scorpions tour leg, They went out with Armored Saint, They've done M3, they've done cruises. You can't say they haven't tried in some ways.
That brings me to my point, regarding your last four words (Reinvigorate the fan base) I think they have. I think they have totally reinvigorated the fan base.......What fan base is left. Which is a whole other topic. Those who want Geoff back need to realize that he was a major reason the fan base went away during those lean years with his ideals and directions of the last several albums and his outside writers and not wanting to play metal and play more contemporary stuff and exclude certain band members in the creative process and have his family run the show all the while his vocals declining. Something to be said of that.
In addition, fan base? this band never really had all that big of fan base, except for a few years on the back end of Mindcrime (after the fact, post release) and Empire. Then the long hiatus and change in the music tastes at the time (grunge) halved that swollen fan base for Promised Land. After that with DeGarmo's mostly DUD of an album HITNF only the die hard fans were left again, the fan base pre Mindcrime, I guess you would say...hanging on hoping for a return to form and that hanging on hoping in my opinion, except for a few great moments here and there over the years with each album release, pretty much lasted all the way up until the Self Titled album was released.
Most people that I know, except music/metal heads, have never even heard of this band. So yeah, I would argue that have certainly reinvigorated the fan base that still pays attention.
I would love them to play more new stuff live like most people, but if they're only going to play fifteen songs and seventy minute sets, I guess I can understand wanting to play it safe and only play three or four new songs. It sucks, but I guess I understand.
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You make some very good points. But what I mean is this: While you are right that they certainly have done some good things, they have also dropped quite a few balls too. They have had some opportunities they have just let fall by the wayside. And in terms of actual promotion of the new material and marketing the band, other than being on the road, they really haven't done what they could have. They missed key landmark album anniversaries. They have shied away from playing much new material or doing anything else to actively promote the new material. Hey, I won't begrudge them one bit for resigning themselves to being mostly a nostalgia act nowadays. If they want to emphasize the older material because that puts butts in seats, I get it and don't begrudge that. From a business standpoint, I think that is the right move. Same thing when it comes to reliving the '80s "glory days" by touring with "hair metal" bands if that gets ticket sales and gets them back on people's minds. But they can't just keep playing the same sets over and over and over, tour after tour, hide from their new material, and expect people to keep coming out to see them. I think they are nearing the end of any fan goodwill when it comes to concert attendance because both the casual fan as well as those who actively follow them have no reason to believe there will be anything new to see that hasn't been done. They have basically been doing the same "return to history" show since Rising West. And while it was cool as an initial tour, they also need to let people know they still have something to say musically. The casual fan might mostly want to hear the classics. And that's fine. That is MOST of the people who will come see a show. But those same people won't come see the same show 2, 3, or 4 consecutive tour legs. Change things up a bit and sprinkle in more new material so that the casual fans at least know the band is actively doing something, and they get more tickets and albums sold.
Agreed Bosk (except for those last four words, which I'll elaborate on in a minute), I don't know how anybody who was a fan of this band and stuck around, even a little bit, after Promised Land and up through the years until the split with Tate cannot listen to the last two records and see a miraculous improvement over everything from HITNF forward. That is mind boggling to me.
I will double down on this and say that the new material, especially the last album, stands right up there with the classic material. Personally, I put Condition Human in my top 4 with Mindcrime, Empire, and PL.
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I'd likely not even check out the next Queensryche album if Scott is not on it.
I wouldn't even bother if Mike (Portnoy) played on it, but I've been indifferent for almost 15 years now.
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As for that 30th anniversary tour being with Queesryche, No Thanks. Hopefully this upcoming new Queensryche album with Todd will cement that in stone and bury that idea. I don't want him anywhere near Queensryche again, as I could see that ultimately being the end of the band and that would be very unfortunate as they finally have found their way again releasing quality material and putting on energetic and heavy shows once more and ENJOYING IT, not just going through the motions like they had with Geoff for those last several years.
Operation Mindcrime has been done to death, I for one really don't even feel the necessity of having it done in it's entirety yet again to begin with. It's not like it hasn't been done in several years, at this point it is no longer a special occasion, it has been milked to death five times over. If Geoff and his band want to do it, that's great. let him do it by himself. I would go see it. I don't need to see him back with Queensryche for so much as a short special tour at this point. A definitive NO THANKS! :biggrin:
Couldn't have said it better, please no Tate back in QR, just keep releasing good music with Todd. And I wouldn't even consider watching Tate's band perform Operation Mindcrime.
I agree, no Tate back in QR. I am enjoying Tate's shows without them and other are enjoying QR without Tate so it is right now a win win. I have nothing at all against Todd but have zero interest in seeing or hearing him singing Geoff's parts.
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As for that 30th anniversary tour being with Queesryche, No Thanks. Hopefully this upcoming new Queensryche album with Todd will cement that in stone and bury that idea. I don't want him anywhere near Queensryche again, as I could see that ultimately being the end of the band and that would be very unfortunate as they finally have found their way again releasing quality material and putting on energetic and heavy shows once more and ENJOYING IT, not just going through the motions like they had with Geoff for those last several years.
Operation Mindcrime has been done to death, I for one really don't even feel the necessity of having it done in it's entirety yet again to begin with. It's not like it hasn't been done in several years, at this point it is no longer a special occasion, it has been milked to death five times over. If Geoff and his band want to do it, that's great. let him do it by himself. I would go see it. I don't need to see him back with Queensryche for so much as a short special tour at this point. A definitive NO THANKS! :biggrin:
Couldn't have said it better, please no Tate back in QR, just keep releasing good music with Todd. And I wouldn't even consider watching Tate's band perform Operation Mindcrime.
I agree, no Tate back in QR. I am enjoying Tate's shows without them and other are enjoying QR without Tate so it is right now a win win. I have nothing at all against Todd but have zero interest in seeing or hearing him singing Geoff's parts.
The one thing I want to hear is Empire live in ta entirety.
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Hey, slight bump but I've recently gone through the Queensryche discography & I decided to look through this thread to see some discussion about the material I've heard. It's interesting to see, but the one thing that's puzzling me is where the idea that "Queensryche sucked after Promised Land" comes from (mostly at the beginning of the thread). I personally enjoyed Q2K & Tribe & I absolutely adore OM2. I get that they've released a lot of bad albums (DTC especially is the worst thing ever :facepalm:), I don't see why this idea that they were consistently terrible until the 2012 split comes from. What issues do you guys have with Q2K/Tribe/OM2 that makes you put them on the same level as HITNF/AS/DTC?
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I'm one of the few that have no problem with Q2K, I really think it's a good record with some very strong songs and some more average ones. I would have wished for them to continue in that direction.
On the other hand Tribe is such a boooooooooooooooooring record, but that's just me.
OM2 suffers from mediocrity, apart from a few good songs, and is too long so that it drags in the end. And I think the story is shit and doesn't do the first one justice.
And apart from the quality of the songs you really can tell that Tate doesn't give a shit about his vocals anymore, in the end he doesn't even try to put in a decent performance.
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I keep trying to pull myself through any of the Post-Promised Land Tate era Queensryche albums and I never manage to pull through. I just can't get into any of them, not even Hear in the Now Frontier.
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Hey, slight bump but I've recently gone through the Queensryche discography & I decided to look through this thread to see some discussion about the material I've heard. It's interesting to see, but the one thing that's puzzling me is where the idea that "Queensryche sucked after Promised Land" comes from (mostly at the beginning of the thread). I personally enjoyed Q2K & Tribe & I absolutely adore OM2. I get that they've released a lot of bad albums (DTC especially is the worst thing ever :facepalm:), I don't see why this idea that they were consistently terrible until the 2012 split comes from. What issues do you guys have with Q2K/Tribe/OM2 that makes you put them on the same level as HITNF/AS/DTC?
We talked about this A LOT in the Queensryche discography thread, so you might want to check that out. A lot of good discussion of each album there. As far as the albums you mentioned, here's my short take:
First off, HITNF is a great album, and I'll fight anybody who says otherwise. :biggrin:
It has some moments. Liquid Sky is a good song. Falling Down isn't bad. Same with Breakdown. And Burning Man, despite being "different" is kind of infectious too. But I struggle to find much more that is truly "interesting" about the album. And that is a problem for a band that had been known up to that point for standing out and being deep, interesting, and thought-provoking. The album is "just kind of there." If this was some band other than Queensryche, I doubt I would have even bought the album. I don't hate it. But I don't find much of anything that makes me want to listen to it either. That said, I agree with the general point about wanting to maybe hear more in that vein from them. This was their first time writing without their primary guy, CDG, and it showed that something was missing. Having done an album and two tours with Kelly, I think they could have definitely written something more inspired that sounded more like a true band effort if he had been able to stay on.
Tribe: Very good HALF of an album. Open, Desert Dance, and Art of Life are very solid. If the entire album was that good, this would be a pretty special album. But it isn't. It does have a cohesive dark vibe, which is a good thing. But despite a couple of other pretty good supporting songs in Tribe and Doing Fine, the rest of the album is pretty unmemorable and sounds like it could have just be slapped together from leftovers from outside writers who hadn't been able to sell them to anybody else. It's not a "bad" album. But the quality is very inconsistent to me between the awesome trilogy of songs, a couple of good ones, and the unforgettable rest (well, I wish Blood was "unforgettable"--but it's so bad I can't forget it no matter how hard I try).
Mindcrime2: This sums it up pretty well for me:
OM2 suffers from mediocrity, apart from a few good songs, and is too long so that it drags in the end. And I think the story is shit and doesn't do the first one justice.
And apart from the quality of the songs you really can tell that Tate doesn't give a shit about his vocals anymore, in the end he doesn't even try to put in a decent performance.
It has some great moments. The first half of the album is mostly really good. But it takes a nosedive. Dio's potential is wasted on a really dumb song and overly campy performance. And the cracks in Tate's vocal delivery are REALLY starting to show.
By American Soldier, Slater had mostly really figured out the Queensryche sound and how to coax that out of the players. But between Tate's lackluster vocals and the growing fissures in the band, what could have been a great album is just a very good but flawed album. And, of course, they were completely off the rails after that. I wouldn't say that they are a band that "completely sucked after Promised Land." But they are a band that lost their primary songwriter, lost their cohesiveness, and, consequently, lost their way. And I think you can hear that in the music. Listening to the albums tells a story. Some of what they did along that journey worked. A lot did not. Either way, that's okay. Other than DTC, there really isn't an album where they haven't given me something to like, so I won't complain--much.
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Thanks for the responses. Really glad to see at least some love for these albums, even if most would agree they aren't their best. I'll check out the discography thread later, maybe they can give me some more perspective.
I'm listening to Q2K again & I kind of agree with what bosk said about it. As much as I love certain songs (especially When The Rain Comes, which is one of the best later-QR songs imo), it just has that "meh" feeling that wasn't there on the first 5 albums. I think at the time I was just relieved that it wasn't another HITNF, which I full-on hated when I first heard it & it hasn't gotten much better since (fite me bosk).
As for Tribe, I kind of have the opposite opinion to bosk. I really like the 2nd half, but I think the album has a bit of a rocky start (Desert Dance is my least favourite track). That said, I still think the track flow from Tribe/Blood/Art Of Life is phenomenal & really sets the album above a lot of QR's weaker material.
Also, one thing I've been considering doing is an "every QR song ranked" thread from worst to best. I think that could be pretty interesting seeing how inconsistent their discography is. I'd still have to actually construct the list (that's the hard part), but I think it'd be pretty fun. What do you guys think?
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By the way, does anyone know where I can find the Condition Human bonus tracks? None of the streaming sites or digital stores I use seem to have them.
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By the way, does anyone know where I can find the Condition Human bonus tracks? None of the streaming sites or digital stores I use seem to have them.
Same here, would like to find them somewhere.
Btw, since Casey is leaving Kamelot, how long until QR announces Scott's departure?
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By the way, does anyone know where I can find the Condition Human bonus tracks? None of the streaming sites or digital stores I use seem to have them.
Same here, would like to find them somewhere.
Btw, since Casey is leaving Kamelot, how long until QR announces Scott's departure?
Seriously? Crap, seems inevitable, doesn't it. Scott must have decided he's done.
I was not impressed with Casey when I saw QR last year. Just seemed wrong without Scott back there.
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So, BOTH of the primary writers are gone. The backbone of the rhythm section is gone. There really just isn't much left of "Queensryche" in Queensryche now. :(
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So, BOTH of the primary writers are gone. The backbone of the rhythm section is gone. There really just isn't much left of "Queensryche" in Queensryche now. :(
Now??
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Look, it's entirely possible Scott Rock is done, but let's be clear in that nothing has been announced to that effect as of yet.
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Look, it's entirely possible Scott Rock is done, but let's be clear in that nothing has been announced to that effect as of yet.
I mean, no, it's not officially announced yet but Scott apparently isn't playing drums on the new Queensryche album and the guy who is playing drums on said-album just left the band he was a part of in order to "pursue other musical interests."
It's not official, but I'd say the writing is probably on the wall at this point.
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They should change their name to "Ship Of Theseus" :justjen
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They should change their name to "Ship Of Theseus" :justjen
:tup
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I'm a little behind... ROCKSON?! Poor kid.
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I finally started getting into this band. I started with the self-titled on Spotify but it was a mess (not the original - expanded and remastered, which had a bunch of live tracks, not what I needed) so I went to The Warning. That was okay, but Rage For Order is fantastic. Today I picked up that one, Operation:Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land at the record store. Exploring this band just like Fates Warning and Rush, and I'm loving RFO so I can't wait to hear these next three.
If I love them enough I'm probably going to end up buying the later, terrible albums, just out of principle of buying complete discographies of bands who I really enjoy, and filling the shelves. I'm very interested in hearing just how far they drop off up to the split, and what the Todd era stuff is like.
This band is very... interesting.
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The run from Warning to Promised Land is one of the greatest album runs ever. Each album is very different from each other, but there are elements that run through each record, and for the most part, I think the progression from one record to the next is actually somewhat organic. DeGarmo and Wilton are a fantastic guitar duo, and they way they work together is pretty unique compared against some of the other famous guitar duos of that time. I always thought their artistic vision set them apart, and when they lost that, they lost everything.
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I came to the QR party late myself, only being familiar with them at the time because of Silent Lucidity's massive airplay. I can't imagine the awesomeness of being a fan of the band during that stretch of albums in real time.
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I finally started getting into this band. I started with the self-titled on Spotify but it was a mess (not the original - expanded and remastered, which had a bunch of live tracks, not what I needed) so I went to The Warning. That was okay, but Rage For Order is fantastic. Today I picked up that one, Operation:Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land at the record store. Exploring this band just like Fates Warning and Rush, and I'm loving RFO so I can't wait to hear these next three.
If I love them enough I'm probably going to end up buying the later, terrible albums, just out of principle of buying complete discographies of bands who I really enjoy, and filling the shelves. I'm very interested in hearing just how far they drop off up to the split, and what the Todd era stuff is like.
This band is very... interesting.
I get being a completist, but seriously, just get everything from the start to Promised Land and then just stop there. You will save yourself a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted listening to a lot of crap.
These ratings below do a good job of showing how quickly they fell off the clip after Promised Land:
https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/queensryche
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You can skip the garbled mess that is Promised Land.
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You can skip the messes that are TAC's posts. :biggrin:
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:lol
Can't argue with that! :lol
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(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2015-07/28/15/enhanced/webdr01/enhanced-17850-1438111899-9.png?downsize=715:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)
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I'm torn. Lol
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Actual picture from a typical Promised Land listening party.
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I get being a completist, but seriously, just get everything from the start to Promised Land and then just stop there. You will save yourself a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted listening to a lot of crap.
These ratings below do a good job of showing how quickly they fell off the clip after Promised Land:
https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/queensryche
Wow. That's pretty... depressing.
If I like the CDs I just picked up enough - and it seems like I will, because I heard Mindcrime for the first time today and good lord is it a good record, they're batting 1000 so far to my ears - I'll at least give them a listen on Spotify. I think I can say I 'like' Queensryche, with some potential major caveats later on (in all likelihood) - but we'll see. I really dislike having empty spots in an artist's collection on my shelves even if they're bad albums, if I enjoy that band's good albums enough. Hard to describe... and since there are 4 or 5 more sitting in that store, yeah, I may just drop $20 and grab them :)
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Tribe has good songs on it. I consider that the last great Queensryche album.
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The run from Warning to Promised Land is one of the greatest album runs ever. Each album is very different from each other, but there are elements that run through each record, and for the most part, I think the progression from one record to the next is actually somewhat organic. DeGarmo and Wilton are a fantastic guitar duo, and they way they work together is pretty unique compared against some of the other famous guitar duos of that time. I always thought their artistic vision set them apart, and when they lost that, they lost everything.
Agreed on Rage to Promised Land. Each very unique.
Rage...metal, somewhat prog
Mindcrime...concept album
Empire...almost radio friendly straight forward rock
Promised Land...dark and heavy
I love some songs on each album. I personally thing Warning is overrated except for Roads to Madness, Take Hold and NM...I forger the numbers. :)
Personally I prefer Tribe over Warning. Open is a classic, so is Tribe, Blood and Desert Dance.
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OM2 is great, don't listen to these nerds :hat
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You can skip the garbled mess that is Promised Land.
See, TAC, I see that you're saying Promised Land here, but I know you have to be referring to Hear in the Now Frontier. :lol
Tribe has good songs on it. I consider that the last great Queensryche album.
Clearly not, as both of the La Torre albums trounce Tribe.
For the new Ryche fan here, my advice is this: Skip every album after Promised Land until you get to the band's self-titled album from 2013. Get that and get Condition Human. Trust me, the quality from start to finish will be much stronger and be far less heartbreaking to bear through if you stick with this plan. :metal
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I finally started getting into this band. I started with the self-titled on Spotify but it was a mess (not the original - expanded and remastered, which had a bunch of live tracks, not what I needed) so I went to The Warning. That was okay, but Rage For Order is fantastic. Today I picked up that one, Operation:Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land at the record store. Exploring this band just like Fates Warning and Rush, and I'm loving RFO so I can't wait to hear these next three.
If I love them enough I'm probably going to end up buying the later, terrible albums, just out of principle of buying complete discographies of bands who I really enjoy, and filling the shelves. I'm very interested in hearing just how far they drop off up to the split, and what the Todd era stuff is like.
This band is very... interesting.
Even if you're a completist, I'd recommend avoiding at least the last 3 records with Tate (not counting Take Cover, which is a collection of covers), because they're essentially his solo albums, featuring outside writers and even uncredited ghost players instead of the actual band members on some of the material. At least Hear in the Now Frontier, Q2K and Tribe were still band efforts and include some great tunes.
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I finally started getting into this band. I started with the self-titled on Spotify but it was a mess (not the original - expanded and remastered, which had a bunch of live tracks, not what I needed) so I went to The Warning. That was okay, but Rage For Order is fantastic. Today I picked up that one, Operation:Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land at the record store. Exploring this band just like Fates Warning and Rush, and I'm loving RFO so I can't wait to hear these next three.
If I love them enough I'm probably going to end up buying the later, terrible albums, just out of principle of buying complete discographies of bands who I really enjoy, and filling the shelves. I'm very interested in hearing just how far they drop off up to the split, and what the Todd era stuff is like.
This band is very... interesting.
Even if you're a completist, I'd recommend avoiding at least the last 3 records with Tate
Is that including Frequency Unknown? :lol
In all seriousness though, I think DTC might be starting to grow on me a little. I still hate it musically, but I kind of enjoy it in a "so bad it's good" way. :biggrin:
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I finally started getting into this band. I started with the self-titled on Spotify but it was a mess (not the original - expanded and remastered, which had a bunch of live tracks, not what I needed) so I went to The Warning. That was okay, but Rage For Order is fantastic. Today I picked up that one, Operation:Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land at the record store. Exploring this band just like Fates Warning and Rush, and I'm loving RFO so I can't wait to hear these next three.
If I love them enough I'm probably going to end up buying the later, terrible albums, just out of principle of buying complete discographies of bands who I really enjoy, and filling the shelves. I'm very interested in hearing just how far they drop off up to the split, and what the Todd era stuff is like.
This band is very... interesting.
Even if you're a completist, I'd recommend avoiding at least the last 3 records with Tate
Is that including Frequency Unknown? :lol
Forgot about its existence for a second (lucky me), but yeah :lol
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The only thing you need to know about Frequency Unknown is wolfking's review in the Tater thread.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36090.msg1565339#msg1565339
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The only thing you need to know about Frequency Unknown is wolfking's review in the Tater thread.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36090.msg1565339#msg1565339
That review is the stuff of legends. I still remember my first time reading it back in the day! :lol
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The only thing you need to know about Frequency Unknown is wolfking's review in the Tater thread.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36090.msg1565339#msg1565339
That review is the stuff of legends. I still remember my first time reading it back in the day! :lol
Just like a George Costanza voice-mail message :lol. At least once a year I go back to it for the giggles. I've said it before, I'll say it again, my favorite DTF post .... ever.
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In all honesty, if I enjoy Empire and Promised Land enough, I'm probably just going to try to listen to all the albums in chronological order like I had planned. I don't want to jump around from album to album; I want to experience the roller coaster of seeing how each album changes the band, I guess, for lack of a better term (or is it the band changing the albums... whoa, man) Of course if they're that bad I won't even finish them, but it won't put me off checking out the Todd LaTorre-fronted 'ryche at the end of the day :biggrin: I'll make sure to read that FU review.
Mindcrime is phenomenal... wow. I already knew 3 songs on it (the title track, Eyes of a Stranger, and I'm pretty sure I Don't Believe In Love). But jeeze. I thought I had checked this out some years ago but can't really remember; if I did, I don't know why I apparently didn't like it...
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To me, Mindcrime is NOT an easy album to digest on an initial listen. I can see it taking awhile and perhaps not clicking the first time you listened, if that is actually the case.
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To me, Mindcrime is NOT an easy album to digest on an initial listen. I can see it taking awhile and perhaps not clicking the first time you listened, if that is actually the case.
Could be. But man, I only played it one time last night and might as well have had my hair blown back the whole time. Incredible stuff! Revolution Calling, Spreading the Disease (especially this one, the singing is great), The Needle Lies, just so many great first impressions. Suite Sister Mary is definitely going to take several spins more though.
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In all honesty, if I enjoy Empire and Promised Land enough, I'm probably just going to try to listen to all the albums in chronological order like I had planned. I don't want to jump around from album to album; I want to experience the roller coaster of seeing how each album changes the band, I guess, for lack of a better term (or is it the band changing the albums... whoa, man) Of course if they're that bad I won't even finish them, but it won't put me off checking out the Todd LaTorre-fronted 'ryche at the end of the day :biggrin: I'll make sure to read that FU review.
Mindcrime is phenomenal... wow. I already knew 3 songs on it (the title track, Eyes of a Stranger, and I'm pretty sure I Don't Believe In Love). But jeeze. I thought I had checked this out some years ago but can't really remember; if I did, I don't know why I apparently didn't like it...
I agree with all those saying that Promised Land was the last good album until Todd LaTorre joined the band. There are good songs here and there in between, but overall it's pretty bad. If you want to listen to those albums, do, but don't waste your money on them. Save it for when they tour and buy a shirt or something instead. :)
Glad you're enjoying the good stuff. :)
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For me with Mindcrime it was love at first listening. Maybe I didn't get all the nuances but I immediately understood why the album was so praised.
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In all honesty, if I enjoy Empire and Promised Land enough, I'm probably just going to try to listen to all the albums in chronological order like I had planned. I don't want to jump around from album to album; I want to experience the roller coaster of seeing how each album changes the band, I guess, for lack of a better term (or is it the band changing the albums... whoa, man) Of course if they're that bad I won't even finish them, but it won't put me off checking out the Todd LaTorre-fronted 'ryche at the end of the day :biggrin: I'll make sure to read that FU review.
Mindcrime is phenomenal... wow. I already knew 3 songs on it (the title track, Eyes of a Stranger, and I'm pretty sure I Don't Believe In Love). But jeeze. I thought I had checked this out some years ago but can't really remember; if I did, I don't know why I apparently didn't like it...
I agree with all those saying that Promised Land was the last good album until Todd LaTorre joined the band. There are good songs here and there in between, but overall it's pretty bad. If you want to listen to those albums, do, but don't waste your money on them. Save it for when they tour and buy a shirt or something instead. :)
Glad you're enjoying the good stuff. :)
I disagree. Yeah, they were very hit and miss during that long stretch. But there is plenty to like. And for someone like Kattoelox who enjoys the full album experience and likes to be a completest even in light of having some low points, even if some points in the discog might not be great, there's plenty to enjoy.
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I would just get them all and make your own opinion on each album. Go into each album with an open mind because every QR album has fans that love it. The band just set such a high standard with EP-Promised Land that it was hard to match. There was clearly other issues within the band that caused the downgrade of each album, but there are positives on each album. And as a newer fan, these positives may out weigh the negatives and you just may love the albums you were supposed to dislike. Get them all, especially if you found them at a second hand store for a decent price.
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I suppose if they're used the $ from the sale won't be going to Mr. I like to spit on my band mates, so yeah, if you have to buy them, do it that way. :) But I still say at least wait and listen to them first. There's nothing to lose - you've gone this many years without them, what's a little more time?
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In all honesty, if I enjoy Empire and Promised Land enough, I'm probably just going to try to listen to all the albums in chronological order like I had planned. I don't want to jump around from album to album; I want to experience the roller coaster of seeing how each album changes the band, I guess, for lack of a better term (or is it the band changing the albums... whoa, man) Of course if they're that bad I won't even finish them, but it won't put me off checking out the Todd LaTorre-fronted 'ryche at the end of the day :biggrin: I'll make sure to read that FU review.
Mindcrime is phenomenal... wow. I already knew 3 songs on it (the title track, Eyes of a Stranger, and I'm pretty sure I Don't Believe In Love). But jeeze. I thought I had checked this out some years ago but can't really remember; if I did, I don't know why I apparently didn't like it...
I think this is right. Try to experience it the way we had to. Fits and starts, ups and downs... selfishly, it's also more interesting for us (me).
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Lethean's right, I've gone my whole life without listening to the 'ryche, so I have no problem at all taking my time in 2018. Plus, I have made a point not to give any money at all directly to Geoff Tate, so it's all good. I don't care so much if the later albums suck, but if I call myself a fan of a band, I do still enjoy seeing the complete lineup of studio albums on my shelves. Queensryche is the only Q artist I have so the more the merrier :lol (no, I don't own Queen CDs, I am a young millennial baby :lol)
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I'm also one of those guys that likes to get to know the entire discography, even if a large section of it is dismissed by fans. That being said, it took me seven years to gain courage and check out the albums that came out after Promised land. :lol
To be honest, there are some fantastic songs in the later half of their career, almost every album has several tracks that are worth returning to. Some of the albums would have been great had they been done differently - for example, had Hear in the now frontier been trimmed down a bit and produced better, it would have been pretty amazing. But still, I think the difference in quality is fairly apparent.
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The only thing you need to know about Frequency Unknown is wolfking's review in the Tater thread.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36090.msg1565339#msg1565339
That review is the stuff of legends. I still remember my first time reading it back in the day! :lol
Just like a George Costanza voice-mail message :lol. At least once a year I go back to it for the giggles. I've said it before, I'll say it again, my favorite DTF post .... ever.
I love the rapid descent into pure, unbridled hatred happening in real time and it all ending with "I think I might go throw this CD at a clown tomorrow for laughs" :rollin
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This always made me laugh.
Also, the lyrics aren't in the booklet, which pisses me off a bit. I never read them, but I think at least the booklet should have relevent info and lyrics.
:lol
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Rite?!? Like he's looking for any reason to be pissed at the album by that point. :lol
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I Don't Believe In Love: Who the hell is this Martin guy that did the music on these, he should be shot. Wait, I just heard Tate first couple of lines, is this for real?
THIS SHITS FOR REAL
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I'm loving this band so far but I've never really gotten used to Geoff Tate's appearance. I'm sorry but with the head and facial hair the guy's head looks like it was made in Skyrim's character creator :lol
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I think that review is probably the best thing about FU. :)
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I'm loving this band so far but I've never really gotten used to Geoff Tate's appearance. I'm sorry but with the head and facial hair the guy's head looks like it was made in Skyrim's character creator :lol
It's better than Cabaret-Geoff.
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Oh my goodness, yes!
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That review is amazing!
I really miss prime QR. Everything past Promised Land isn't worth the bother, imo. Their descent into irrelevance has/had to be the biggest disappointment in metal.
Good luck to them with Todd. It's mediocre to me but not horrible.
You know, i think it's just that great creative fertility is just really fragile. QR are just another band that were once magical. *shrug* There are VERY few bands like Maiden that out really GOOD albums at the later part of their career.
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Samsara has given me the full monty introduction into Queensryche, links and all. Good person, Samsara. :biggrin:
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Samsara has given me the full monty introduction into Queensryche, links and all. Good person, Samsara. :biggrin:
Amen, brother.
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I'm also one of those guys that likes to get to know the entire discography, even if a large section of it is dismissed by fans. That being said, it took me seven years to gain courage and check out the albums that came out after Promised land. :lol
To be honest, there are some fantastic songs in the later half of their career, almost every album has several tracks that are worth returning to. Some of the albums would have been great had they been done differently - for example, had Hear in the now frontier been trimmed down a bit and produced better, it would have been pretty amazing. But still, I think the difference in quality is fairly apparent.
I agree about Hear. DeGarmo was hugely important but this album illustrates that DeGarmo does not equal gold.
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What's the consensus on Suite Sister Mary? It's the one song I'm not in love with on Mindcrime. It's really good, just not as solid as the other shorter songs on the album. From start to finish Mindcrime is fan-freaking-tastic. I love it. Not a single below average song on here. Well, maybe The Mission is my pick for weak link, but it's not even bad, I just don't think it's as strong as Speak or Revolution Calling, for example...
Batting 1000 so far... let's see if Empire holds up.
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I don't know about the consensus, but for me the song is fan-freaking-tastic as the rest of the album. It's the centerpiece and a well worthy epic.
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What's the consensus on Suite Sister Mary? It's the one song I'm not in love with on Mindcrime. It's really good, just not as solid as the other shorter songs on the album. From start to finish Mindcrime is fan-freaking-tastic. I love it. Not a single below average song on here. Well, maybe The Mission is my pick for weak link, but it's not even bad, I just don't think it's as strong as Speak or Revolution Calling, for example...
Batting 1000 so far... let's see if Empire holds up.
I have had a weird relationship with that song over the past decade. When I first heard it, I loved it for the most part. The cinematic quality of that first half of the song is divine. And then for years, I thought Suite Sister Mary was too same-y for too long, namely in the second half. Nowadays I'm a bigger fan of it. It's not my favorite from Queensryche- that'd be Anybody Listening? off of Empire (though the rest of that album isn't as good imo), but SSM is a top tier song from the band.
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What's the consensus on Suite Sister Mary? It's the one song I'm not in love with on Mindcrime. It's really good, just not as solid as the other shorter songs on the album. From start to finish Mindcrime is fan-freaking-tastic. I love it. Not a single below average song on here. Well, maybe The Mission is my pick for weak link, but it's not even bad, I just don't think it's as strong as Speak or Revolution Calling, for example...
Batting 1000 so far... let's see if Empire holds up.
Regarding SSM, it can be a bit much. It was the first Queensryche song I had ever heard, and I frankly found it offputting. I Don't Believe In Love was the first song that really got its hooks in me and got me to open up to the rest of the album. Once I did, I began to appreciate SSM. But, like you, even though I came to like and appreciate it, I didn't put it up near the top of the album. It still isn't. But what I can say is that seeing it live with the entirety of Mindcrime being played on the Building Empires tour, the song took on a new life in my eyes. Such atmosphere. Before Empire, you might want to take a detour and watch (don't just listen) to Livecrime. Take the time to watch it on a decent screen with decent sound, and not just a tiny Youtube window and your laptop speakers. Seriously. Despite it definitely being a product of its time, I think you will thank me.
Empire...most people have two reactions to it. Either they are a bit surprised by the more polished and commercial, yet still layered and complex, nature of it, but immediately love and embrace it, or they are initially offput by the more polished and commercial, yet still layered and complex, nature of it, but gradually come to love and embrace it. It's a fantastic album. For me, Empire and Anybody Listening? are the highlights. But there are amazing moments throughout, and even the sappy "ballads" have a lot to offer. Della Brown is a surprise sleeper. I hope you like the album.
It's not my favorite from Queensryche- that'd be Anybody Listening? off of Empire
Marry me? Please?
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Well, maybe The Mission is my pick for weak link, but it's not even bad, I just don't think it's as strong as Speak or Revolution Calling, for example...
The Mission is amazing. I love the lyrics - "I look around, my room is filled with candles...each one's a story, but they end the same." Such an amazing vocal performance from Geoff too.
SSM is over-hyped. Yes, it's their big, epic track. I loved seeing them play it a handful of times on the Mindcrime 2005/2006 tours, but the Geoff over-acting took over. Over the last handful of years, I just can't get into it, but still completely lose myself in The Mission.
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It's not my favorite from Queensryche- that'd be Anybody Listening? off of Empire
Marry me? Please?
B-bosk!!! :omg: I'll... I'll need time to think it over. :biggrin: :rollin
But yeah, getting back to being serious here for Kattoelox, Anybody Listening? is the band's high water mark as far as individual songs go. My favorite song from the 2013 self-titled album (Open Road) is very similar to AL too musically, even if it is admittedly too short for its good. They both have this magnificent "wind in your hair" vibe about them.
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All kidding aside, that is just a total spot-on description of both Anybody Listening? and Open Road. Couldn't have said it better myself.
To this day, it still makes me ANGRY that when I met Geoff for the first time and tried to tell him what that song meant to me, especially on those dark, lonely nights listening to it on my Walkman in the Saudi/Kuwaiti deserts during the Persian Gulf war, and he was so stuck in his agenda that he just could not get what I was saying and was basically congratulating me for what he mistakenly saw as using that song as an anthem to bash the military and everything about the Bush administration.
That aside, this will likely ALWAYS be my favorite Queensryche songs, and one of my top songs from ANY band ever. And at the end of the day, a band that could write that song, and write such amazing albums as Empire, Promised Land, and Mindcrime just HAS TO be considered one of my favorite bands of all time, no matter how many missteps they have made since, or how big those missteps have been. Despite having seriously lost their way, their legacy is amazing, and I always consider Anybody Listening? to be its centerpiece.
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Glad you're enjoying the trip, Kattoelox!
Regarding SSM, put me in the camp that loves it from start to finish. To me, Operation: Mindcrime's weakest full song is ironically the title track. But "weakest" is not really the right descriptor, because I still very much like it. That whole record is pure musical perfection to me.
"Anybody Listening?" is my favorite song from Queensr˙che. It encapsulates everything great about the band in a six-minute or so (not counting the outro, which is cool in its own right) tune. It's like they took the mid-tempo dramatic vibe from "The Mission," let it breathe a bit more, and Geoff wrote lyrics that could connect with pretty much anyone, even if it was written from his perspective as a performer. The whole song is incredible, and really, at least for me, the pinnacle of the band's songwriting abilities.
"Open Road" from the TLT-era self-titled album goes for that vibe and captures it a bit. But like most, I think the song is under cooked. Wish they would have had more time to flesh it out a bit more.
The description bosk1 gave of "Empire" is spot-on, in my opinion. I loved it from the start. I remember seeing that video and hearing the song for the first time. I loved it immediately. It didn't even dawn on me back then that they had gone more "commercial" or "polished." It was still the dark Queensryche, and them doing a song about the drug wars and conflict. All the heady stuff I expected from them.
I didn't hear any other tunes from the Empire album until I got the CD at Christmas that year. Once I did, I did notice it wasn't as "metal" as the back catalog, and more hard rock, but I never really gave it much thought because it was so damn good. Plus, most bands were doing the same thing in the early 1990s, so it just seemed (and still does) a natural progression for Queensryche.
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That's right, I had forgotten that Empire was the lead single. It actually makes a lot of sense for the reasons you posted. It probably is the single track from that album that best fits with their back catalog at that point. Really, Empire was marketed brilliantly. They really had the right music at the right time, and it ended up being marketed just right by the label and MTV. And the tour really felt a statement that, true or not, was along the lines of, "You all weren't ready to see Mindcrime in all its glory a few years ago, but now we're ready to bring it to the masses, so we decided to put out an album so successful that the label had no choice but to fund a tour that would allow us to show it to you the way it is meant to be shown." In retrospect, that's probably B.S. They were just lucky in terms of the timing. But it sure felt that way at the time. And they capitalized on the opportunity.
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Glad you're enjoying the trip, Kattoelox!
Regarding SSM, put me in the camp that loves it from start to finish. To me, Operation: Mindcrime's weakest full song is ironically the title track. But "weakest" is not really the right descriptor, because I still very much like it. That whole record is pure musical perfection to me.
"Anybody Listening?" is my favorite song from Queensr˙che. It encapsulates everything great about the band in a six-minute or so (not counting the outro, which is cool in its own right) tune. It's like they took the mid-tempo dramatic vibe from "The Mission," let it breathe a bit more, and Geoff wrote lyrics that could connect with pretty much anyone, even if it was written from his perspective as a performer. The whole song is incredible, and really, at least for me, the pinnacle of the band's songwriting abilities.
"Open Road" from the TLT-era self-titled album goes for that vibe and captures it a bit. But like most, I think the song is under cooked. Wish they would have had more time to flesh it out a bit more.
The description bosk1 gave of "Empire" is spot-on, in my opinion. I loved it from the start. I remember seeing that video and hearing the song for the first time. I loved it immediately. It didn't even dawn on me back then that they had gone more "commercial" or "polished." It was still the dark Queensryche, and them doing a song about the drug wars and conflict. All the heady stuff I expected from them.
I didn't hear any other tunes from the Empire album until I got the CD at Christmas that year. Once I did, I did notice it wasn't as "metal" as the back catalog, and more hard rock, but I never really gave it much thought because it was so damn good. Plus, most bands were doing the same thing in the early 1990s, so it just seemed (and still does) a natural progression for Queensryche.
Agree with all of this.
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For me, Suite Sister Mary is really good but far from the best out of Mindcrime. And it is a song that works so much better in the flow of the album than as a stand-alone song.
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For me, Suite Sister Mary is really good but far from the best out of Mindcrime. And it is a song that works so much better in the flow of the album than as a stand-alone song.
I feel that this could be said about every song from the album.
That said, I do think that it is the perfect climax for Act 1 of the album. This was the song that I was most drawn to on first listen, and I'd still rate it as (at least one of) my favorite from the album.
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Finally got around to listening to Empire today... closing in on the end right now, and I'm floored. Incredible. What else can I say? First impressions are crazy good. First time listening to Silent Lucidity off the radio and it's wonderful hearing how well it's produced (as well as the rest of the record). I will say I kind of don't like the processing of Tate's vocals on the title track but that's a very minor nitpick, maybe I need to clean my ears or tweak my EQ but nothing else bothers me about this one.
Bass work is great, especially on Della Brown, killer tune. This is the Queensryche I expected to hear before I listened to The Warning, and I love it... just a great rock album. :hefdaddy
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Finally got around to listening to Empire today... closing in on the end right now, and I'm floored. Incredible. What else can I say? First impressions are crazy good. First time listening to Silent Lucidity off the radio and it's wonderful hearing how well it's produced (as well as the rest of the record). I will say I kind of don't like the processing of Tate's vocals on the title track but that's a very minor nitpick, maybe I need to clean my ears or tweak my EQ but nothing else bothers me about this one.
Bass work is great, especially on Della Brown, killer tune. This is the Queensryche I expected to hear before I listened to The Warning, and I love it... just a great rock album. :hefdaddy
I've heard from a lot of people that Empire was one of those albums that engineers and producers all used to "test" how a room sounds before recording in it. Not surprised. It is so well done by Jimbo and Peter.
As it was described by the band, Empire is certainly a much "warmer" sound in comparison to the previous albums. Queensryche certainly went for, and got, that crossover appeal. But it was, at least to my ears, a very natural songwriting progression for Chris and the other guys. That's the thing about the original band. Whether someone likes the stuff post-Empire from the original band or not, it followed a very natural evolution in my opinion, at least from the writing perspective.
My favorites from that record will always be Anybody Listening and the title cut, but honestly, there's no real bad tune on there. I mean, Hand on Heart and One and Only were clearly meant as album filler, but if you listen closely, they are musically deeper. Which I think is a hallmark of classic Queensryche anyway. Empire was the perfect record at the perfect time.
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I'm odd in that Empire is probably in my bottom half of tracks from Empire, but I love Anybody Listening as you do.
Happy that they are playing a favorite venue of mine (Penn's Peak) on May 6th. Haven't seen them in forever (last show I was supposed to see got snow delayed and eventually cancelled), and so it's time again. I accept it'll be a bit of a downer not to have Scott, but this is by far the longest I've gone without seeing them since I first saw them.
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I'm odd in that Empire is probably in my bottom half of tracks from Empire, but I love Anybody Listening as you do.
Happy that they are playing a favorite venue of mine (Penn's Peak) on May 6th. Haven't seen them in forever (last show I was supposed to see got snow delayed and eventually cancelled), and so it's time again. I accept it'll be a bit of a downer not to have Scott, but this is by far the longest I've gone without seeing them since I first saw them.
Nick, was the last time the one we saw together with ShadowWalker? Same venue?
I liked that place. Had an old time country vibe of sorts, but still a cool place to see a show.
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In the never ending saga of "who is playing drums on Queensryche's new record," looks like La Torre has confirmed that it is NOT Casey Grillo.
On his latest facebook post, La Torre confirms Scott is on paternity leave still, including no touring. He also says Casey is just touring with them. So, that leaves three options -- Scott came in to do the drums (if on paternity leave still, then I find this doubtful), they got a studio drummer to do it, or La Torre himself did drums.
And of course, La Torre couldn't help but wink at the poster who asked if La Torre did the drums. (Not that a wink emoji means a damn thing).
Todd La Torre Kevin Delery, it's beyond frustrating and makes me want to quit social media all together sometimes.
Richard Dean Wilson, Casey did not play on the record, he is touring with us since Scott informed us he would not be touring.
And thx to you all for the support ;)
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Richard Dean Wilson
Richard Dean Wilson Todd - hmmmm. Did a certain singing drummer we all know play on it? 🤔 You’re just having fun with us now!
You’re welcome bud. See you in Jim Thorpe PA in May!
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Todd La Torre
Todd La Torre Richard Dean Wilson, lol
See ya soon then ;)
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As the tri-ryche turns. ::)
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if Scott is indeed doing the drums on the new album its not hard to come out and say, "Scott is playing drums on the new album."
Hence, he is not.
And it sucks.
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if Scott is indeed doing the drums on the new album its not hard to come out and say, "Scott is playing drums on the new album."
Hence, he is not.
And it sucks.
Yesterday, some guy was asking Todd on his FB wall about the drummer situation, and why QR hasn't come out and said anything about who it is. The guy was respectful, but said without Scott, he wouldn't consider it Queensryche. I mean, a lot of fans said that after Chris left, and again when Geoff was canned, so it is a common reaction.
Todd replied calling out the fan, and asking them about whether he considers mindcrime 2, American soldier, and dedicated to chaos queensryche records. The guy said he didn't. Todd then smugly replied that it was "good to know, cuz yeah, Scott didn't play on OMC2, and those songs had outside players and writers." Todd went on to reiterate, rudely, saying "For the 100th time, Scott has not "quit" the band, he told us he's taking time off and we have no time frame of when he will return. Can't get more honest than that, but that does't seem to be good enough for some people when they don't listen to our answer. We thought he would take a few months off, obviously he doesn't want to tour right now so what...we are supposed to call the band something else now? That would be ridiculous."
So I replied, and said this:
"Todd La Torre, so you have said Casey is not on the new record, and Scott is still on paternity leave. That's fine. And good for Scott. Happy for him. So answer the question: who is playing drums on Queensryche's new album? Not hard to give an answer. Just be straight up with people. If there behind the scenes reasons why you're being coy, then say that. People who buy your records will respect that. So either give them the answer, or say why you can't. Pretty simple."
>>>>>>>>>>>That post was deleted by Todd La Torre, and I was banned from posting or liking his Facebook page. :lol
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Well, I see nothing wrong with how Todd responded. I see nothing wrong with him not wanting to say. He's likely annoyed by all the posts/comments asking that very same question, when he said all he could or all he wants to say. The way I can tell is him starting with "for the 100th time." Yet fans still ask about the drummer situation and wheter Scotts out.
They have no obligation to tell us at all. They could release the album with no credits, then no one will know.
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Well, I see nothing wrong with how Todd responded. I see nothing wrong with him not wanting to say. He's likely annoyed by all the posts/comments asking that very same question, when he said all he could or all he wants to say. The way I can tell is him starting with "for the 100th time." Yet fans still ask about the drummer situation and wheter Scotts out.
They have no obligation to tell us at all. They could release the album with no credits, then no one will know.
You are 100 percent correct. They have absolutely no obligation whatsoever. And I don't blame Todd for getting annoyed. I think my point is, the annoyance could be avoided, and fans could be placated, if he stopped sidestepping the question. He dances around it.
If he just said "so and so is playing on the record," or "hey, yeah, I know you guys are really concerned about who is drumming, but for various behind the scenes reasons, we can't say anything yet," it would help to an extent. But they continue to try and avoid it, instead of just answering the question.
Honestly, I don't think anyone would care TOO much, if he said:
"Hey, yeah, I know you all are frustrated with the whole drumming question. We just can't say anything yet about it. I know that sucks, but our hands are tied at the moment. Please be patient with us, and as soon as we can say what is up, we will."
>>>At least then they are tackling it head-on, instead of just avoiding it.
Edit - my guess, based on it all, and Todd saying it wasn't Casey on the album, is that Todd tracked the drums, and they want to avoid anyone knowing that until the album drops, to avoid any potential hit to the record's first week sales. Hate to break it to him, but that never works. :lol
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Well, I see nothing wrong with how Todd responded. I see nothing wrong with him not wanting to say. He's likely annoyed by all the posts/comments asking that very same question, when he said all he could or all he wants to say. The way I can tell is him starting with "for the 100th time." Yet fans still ask about the drummer situation and wheter Scotts out.
They have no obligation to tell us at all. They could release the album with no credits, then no one will know.
You are 100 percent correct. They have absolutely no obligation whatsoever. And I don't blame Todd for getting annoyed. I think my point is, the annoyance could be avoided, and fans could be placated, if he stopped sidestepping the question. He dances around it.
If he just said "so and so is playing on the record," or "hey, yeah, I know you guys are really concerned about who is drumming, but for various behind the scenes reasons, we can't say anything yet," it would help to an extent. But they continue to try and avoid it, instead of just answering the question.
Honestly, I don't think anyone would care TOO much, if he said:
"Hey, yeah, I know you all are frustrated with the whole drumming question. We just can't say anything yet about it. I know that sucks, but our hands are tied at the moment. Please be patient with us, and as soon as we can say what is up, we will."
>>>At least then they are tackling it head-on, instead of just avoiding it.
Edit - my guess, based on it all, and Todd saying it wasn't Casey on the album, is that Todd tracked the drums, and they want to avoid anyone knowing that until the album drops, to avoid any potential hit to the record's first week sales. Hate to break it to him, but that never works. :lol
Of course not, but people could just take what they say for now and leave it at that.
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That's not at all realistic, and you know it. Particularly when people are asking direct questions.
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Yeah, in the age of social media, people feel they are entitled to answers. And they feel they are entitled to them immediately. Whether that is right or wrong doesn't really matter. The point is, that is the expectation.
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The "issue" with their answers so far, is that they leave more questions to be asked.
I'm guessing they're laying down their own stuff, and are simply waiting for Scott to return and lay down some mean drums. But again, if that is the case, why not just say it outright :corn
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The "issue" with their answers so far, is that they leave more questions to be asked.
I'm guessing they're laying down their own stuff, and are simply waiting for Scott to return and lay down some mean drums. But again, if that is the case, why not just say it outright :corn
The band has confirmed on their Facebook page that the only tracking left is vocals and guitar solos. Drums are already done. The fans get that he doesn't want to tour - I hate being away from my kids too (though a professional musician with only weekend fly-in gigs or the occasional 5-7 day cruise can certainly manage being a dad and working). But it's not hard to be up front and say "hey, we're in the studio, here's the situation." So many bands have lineup or recording lineup changes and address them before the album is released. Yeah it sucks, but fans appreciate honesty more than having the wool pulled over their eyes by their favorite band. Which Queensryche has done many times before in hiding songwriting credits and session musicians. Tate's been gone six years, and they go back to this behavior? :facepalm:
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Yeah, in the age of social media, people feel they are entitled to answers. And they feel they are entitled to them immediately. Whether that is right or wrong doesn't really matter. The point is, that is the expectation.
Can you please explain further?
You have 5 minutes or I will complain about you on another forum.
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Yeah, in the age of social media, people feel they are entitled to answers. And they feel they are entitled to them immediately. Whether that is right or wrong doesn't really matter. The point is, that is the expectation.
Can you please explain further?
You have 5 minutes or I will complain about you on another forum.
:lol
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Yeah, in the age of social media, people feel they are entitled to answers. And they feel they are entitled to them immediately. Whether that is right or wrong doesn't really matter. The point is, that is the expectation.
Can you please explain further?
You have 5 minutes or I will complain about you on another forum.
:lol I'll meet you in your kitchen. (I will be opening for Sons of Apollo)
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Yeah, in the age of social media, people feel they are entitled to answers. And they feel they are entitled to them immediately. Whether that is right or wrong doesn't really matter. The point is, that is the expectation.
Can you please explain further?
You have 5 minutes or I will complain about you on another forum.
:lol I'll meet you in your kitchen. (I will be opening for Sons of Apollo)
Awesome, I will be there!!
After the show.
:)
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Sorry, I don't see your name on the guest list for the after show party.
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It seems that something is up with Scott. Maybe it's something to do with a life change such as having a child. Maybe he can't decide if he wants to keep doing the music thing anymore. He's 54 with a newborn. That's later in life to have a kid. Maybe he's looking at life through a bigger lens since he has a son. You can miss a lot in the first 2 years of a child's life and if you're not there because of work, you may live with a lot of regrets.
I wouldn't think that there are problems with Scott and the rest of the QR camp.
This is a lot of speculation on my part.
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I don't like the whole secrecy thing, it's not good. Its a bad move and one that is not Todd's fault but the fallout and annoyance of this all has to be a royal pain in the fucking ass at this point for management and the other band members.
Scott needs to address this publicly and shit or get of the pot pretty much to save the rest of the band from all this horseshit, that is my assessment.
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Wow. You'd think after all the crap with Tate they'd be a pretty chill band, but they can't even announce the status of their drummer. :lol
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Well, if they can't, they can't. We don't know why. But, again, all they have to do is say, "We can't say what is going on right now. Just please be patient, and we'll let me know when we can." That would go a long way in placating folks.
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Well, if they can't, they can't. We don't know why. But, again, all they have to do is say, "We can't say what is going on right now. Just please be patient, and we'll let me know when we can." That would go a long way in placating folks.
Exactly. That's all any band really needs to do in a situation like this. Most people will understand, especially if that follow that up with updates when they can, or even just to repeat the same thing if they have to while they're getting it all sorted out.
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If he just said "so and so is playing on the record," or "hey, yeah, I know you guys are really concerned about who is drumming, but for various behind the scenes reasons, we can't say anything yet," it would help to an extent. But they continue to try and avoid it, instead of just answering the question.
Honestly, I don't think anyone would care TOO much, if he said:
"Hey, yeah, I know you all are frustrated with the whole drumming question. We just can't say anything yet about it. I know that sucks, but our hands are tied at the moment. Please be patient with us, and as soon as we can say what is up, we will."
THIS!
It's nothing but reasonable. This band should feel lucky it actually still has people interested in them.
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Update on Scott
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-drummer-scott-rockenfield-has-not-quit-the-band/
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that article is just a condensed version of Todd's facebook comments :lol
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if Scott is indeed doing the drums on the new album its not hard to come out and say, "Scott is playing drums on the new album."
Hence, he is not.
And it sucks.
Yesterday, some guy was asking Todd on his FB wall about the drummer situation, and why QR hasn't come out and said anything about who it is. The guy was respectful, but said without Scott, he wouldn't consider it Queensryche. I mean, a lot of fans said that after Chris left, and again when Geoff was canned, so it is a common reaction.
Todd replied calling out the fan, and asking them about whether he considers mindcrime 2, American soldier, and dedicated to chaos queensryche records. The guy said he didn't. Todd then smugly replied that it was "good to know, cuz yeah, Scott didn't play on OMC2, and those songs had outside players and writers."
Yeah, that last part annoyed me too. Mainly because it's a total non-sequitur to what the guy asked. My guess is that if he said "yes", then Todd would've responded something like "so why is it QR when he doesn't play on those albums but not when doesn't play on the new one", but he didn't, so that reply ended up making absolutely no sense.
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I'm trying to get into Promised Land but I'm not feeling it. It's.. dare I say, boring. I got up through the title track and just stopped, it lacks all the energy and memorability that I loved about RFO and O:M. Empire at least had some interesting musical stuff going on and some energy, Promised Land feels like a hazy comedown from a night of partying, complete with the lack of energy and plodding, overly lengthy tracks. Those are my initial impressions, and I'll keep giving it a shot until hopefully it clicks, but I'm disappointed so far.
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if Scott is indeed doing the drums on the new album its not hard to come out and say, "Scott is playing drums on the new album."
Hence, he is not.
And it sucks.
Yesterday, some guy was asking Todd on his FB wall about the drummer situation, and why QR hasn't come out and said anything about who it is. The guy was respectful, but said without Scott, he wouldn't consider it Queensryche. I mean, a lot of fans said that after Chris left, and again when Geoff was canned, so it is a common reaction.
Todd replied calling out the fan, and asking them about whether he considers mindcrime 2, American soldier, and dedicated to chaos queensryche records. The guy said he didn't. Todd then smugly replied that it was "good to know, cuz yeah, Scott didn't play on OMC2, and those songs had outside players and writers."
Yeah, that last part annoyed me too. Mainly because it's a total non-sequitur to what the guy asked. My guess is that if he said "yes", then Todd would've responded something like "so why is it QR when he doesn't play on those albums but not when doesn't play on the new one", but he didn't, so that reply ended up making absolutely no sense.
Actually, if I could add on to this point, bringing up AS & DTC makes even less sense because Scott DID play on those albums. There's no other session drummer credited. The only album Scott didn't play on was OM2.
In fact, Scott has more writing credits on DTC than on the first four albums combined, so how is this argument even supposed to work? :facepalm:
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I'm trying to get into Promised Land but I'm not feeling it. It's.. dare I say, boring. I got up through the title track and just stopped, it lacks all the energy and memorability that I loved about RFO and O:M. Empire at least had some interesting musical stuff going on and some energy, Promised Land feels like a hazy comedown from a night of partying, complete with the lack of energy and plodding, overly lengthy tracks. Those are my initial impressions, and I'll keep giving it a shot until hopefully it clicks, but I'm disappointed so far.
Don't worry. It took me seven years to really love it. :lol
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Promised Land feels like a hazy comedown from a night of partying, complete with the lack of energy and plodding, overly lengthy tracks.
This is the most apt description of Promised Land I have ever read. I applaud your brevity, sir.
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I'm trying to get into Promised Land but I'm not feeling it. It's.. dare I say, boring. I got up through the title track and just stopped, it lacks all the energy and memorability that I loved about RFO and O:M. Empire at least had some interesting musical stuff going on and some energy, Promised Land feels like a hazy comedown from a night of partying, complete with the lack of energy and plodding, overly lengthy tracks. Those are my initial impressions, and I'll keep giving it a shot until hopefully it clicks, but I'm disappointed so far.
When I first heard the album, when I was 18, I hated it. I shelved it for weeks. Then one night, just hanging by myself, I put on the headphones and laid back with it, and it clicked for me. It's a record about the dark side of success, and what happens after reaching your goals. If it helps, the context of the record at the time is -- Tate got divorced right after Empire, during those years, rumor has it DeGarmo helped keep a roof over his head. The lyrics depict his self-reflection. Chris' lyrics play into that as well, talking about how his father (who abandoned his family when Chris was young) tried to reconnect with Chris after he was successful, and some other stuff.
The title track really is the song that puts it all together. Just like how Suite Sister Mary was the climax of Mindcrime, the song Promised Land serves the same purpose. PL isn't a concept album, but it plays out like one to a degree.
Some folks have said you need to have some years behind you until you fully appreciate the album. I don't necessarily agree with that, but you certainly need to listen to it with the proper context. Next time you give it a try, make sure it is with headphones, read the lyrics, and just avoid distraction. And as you read and listen, remember what I said above about what was going on at the time (band member divorces, failed investments, questioning of what was sacrificed to succeed, etc.).
After a while, it'll obviously click with you, or it won't. But give it some time.
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Promised Land remains perhaps the shining example of my persistence as a music listener paying off in spades.
The first time I heard it, I was like, "What in the hell is this?" All I knew by them at that point was Empire and Mindcrime, and this was totally different from both the mainstream hard rock of Empire and the conceptual metal of Mindcrime. It was...weird.
But I kept at it, and every listen brought forth a few more things I liked. A riff here, a melody line there. Those little things were catching my ears enough to keep bringing me back, in search of new things that might grab me the next time.
And then is was like one day, the light bulb went on, and the album went from this weird thing with things I like dotted randomly all over the place to "holy crap, this really is incredible." It was like going from 0 to 90 MPH in the blink of an eye.
To this day, it remains one of my 20-25 favorite albums ever. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Still don’t get the hate for PL.
But then again, I always resented Empire. When OMC hit the big time, I thought “FINALLY!! A band that is complex and cerebral is going to bring a new level of musical appreciation to the masses!!” Then I heard Jet City Woman and just facepalmed. Still hate that song and Another Rainy Night. Empire would have been so much better without them because I really did grow to appreciate most of the rest of the album.
So when I Am I first hit, I was STUNNED. I instantly loved it. I had never heard something so freaked out and “anti pop” being played all over MTV. I thought sure the underground prog fans would rise to support it, and I was baffled by everyone else being baffled about it.
Ive said it before, and I’ll say it again. Promised Land was “Rage for Order with a budget”... To me it came across as “We got paid for Empire, so we could have the freedom to record a REAL Queensryche record!” Still love that album.
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Thank you, Cintus Supremus :lol
Interesting to read everyone's thoughts on Promised Land. Seems like one of those albums that simply needs to 'click' and requires the right mood, environment, and focus. For what it's worth I had it on while I was doing dishes and some other household chores so I guess that didn't help. Lately my ritual is sitting in my 'music room' and turning up my new speakers loudly so I'll try that with Promised Land later today, after I get through all the records I bought yesterday.
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I love Promised Land, but do understand why some might not. It has a completely different feel from the albums that came before it. I liked most of it right away, with some tracks having to grow on me, but it was the first QR album I heard, so that may have helped.
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It's totally okay to consider PL just as a solid QR record with a few clunkers on it, because that's what it is for me. And believe me I have tried to get into it, it just isn't for me.
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Then I heard Jet City Woman and just facepalmed. Still hate that song...
So being from Seattle like me I am sure you heard that song on KISW like a billion times.
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1 billion sounds about right. Now I would kill to have KISW play it.
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Ive said it before, and I’ll say it again. Promised Land was “Rage for Order with a budget”... To me it came across as “We got paid for Empire, so we could have the freedom to record a REAL Queensryche record!” Still love that album.
WUT??
Rage was visionary and experimental. PL was anything but. Sam talks about the band strife, and so that surely explains why the album is so disjointed and lacking of any passion, save for a moment here and there.
PL is a band that has lost the plot.
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I love PL, but it didn't really click with me until I saw the live show for that tour. Now it's tied with O:M as my favorite QR album.
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I saw the tour and it was awesome. Out Of Mind, and the title track were much better live than the album.
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PL is a band that has lost the plot.
We get it. You don't like the album. But if that is what you think about it, you clearly don't get it either.
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PL is a band that has lost the plot.
I disagree, I quite enjoy Paradise Lost :loser:
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PL is a band that has lost the plot.
We get it. You don't like the album. But if that is what you think about it, you clearly don't get it either.
Not to stir the pot, but this attitude towards negative opinions has always annoyed the heck out of me, that attitude of people assuming someone doesn't 'get' an album because they dislike it. I 'get' The Wall, but I think it's a bloated, boring mess. I 'get' Black Sabbath but I don't enjoy their albums. And so on, and so forth... frankly, Promised Land is really disappointing me, yeah, the background info is nice to have, but that doesn't really mean much if the music isn't interesting. For my two cents, Empire is way better. Maybe PL will be a grower, but it's not looking likely. PL is the first Queensryche album that has had me frequently checking the track lengths and trying to figure out how long until the song/album ends. I don't like this vibe. It's a hazy, foggy cloud that permeates the whole album and nothing is fun or interesting about the music.
But then again, I love songs like Surgical Strike and Jet City Woman, and nothing like those are on PL...
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K-lox, Bosk is just busting my chops. It wasn’t a serious post.
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PL clicked with me immediately, but then again I love gloomy and mellow music :lol
Btw, I did some stalking detective work and noticed that Scott is not friends with Todd on FB, whereas both are friends with Whip and Parker. Maybe there's nothing more to this, but it strikes me as weird, especially knowing the current situation. :dunno:
(I respect the band members' privacy, but I posted this because Scott's friend list is public, so anyone could've looked up his profile and noticed the same thing.)
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PL is a band that has lost the plot.
We get it. You don't like the album. But if that is what you think about it, you clearly don't get it either.
Not to stir the pot, but this attitude towards negative opinions has always annoyed the heck out of me, that attitude of people assuming someone doesn't 'get' an album because they dislike it. I 'get' The Wall, but I think it's a bloated, boring mess. I 'get' Black Sabbath but I don't enjoy their albums. And so on, and so forth... frankly, Promised Land is really disappointing me, yeah, the background info is nice to have, but that doesn't really mean much if the music isn't interesting. For my two cents, Empire is way better. Maybe PL will be a grower, but it's not looking likely. PL is the first Queensryche album that has had me frequently checking the track lengths and trying to figure out how long until the song/album ends. I don't like this vibe. It's a hazy, foggy cloud that permeates the whole album and nothing is fun or interesting about the music.
Agreed. In general, that attitude annoys me as well. But in this case, it is NOT just an assumption that because he doesn't like it, he must not get it. This is an album where there is a LOT more to it than just the notes played in the songs. TAC has been posting about it for a long time, so I know his opinion in as much detail as can reasonably expected. And from that, it is clear that he doesn't "get" the album, and that goes beyond merely disliking it. But that comment was directed to him, and not necessarily to anyone else who doesn't like it (including you).
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Interesting. Carry on, gents
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Musically, PL to me continues Chris' natural progression as a songwriter. He became more interested in acoustic work, particularly after the popularity of Silent Lucidity and the band's MTV Unplugged session. There's a quote somewhere (it might be the Empire DVD-A interview, which was done in 2002), where Chris said that with Empire, the band focused on writing songs with a vocal and simple instrumentation, and if it doesn't work in that context, then they needed to stop and take another look at it, instead of just layering it and trying to push through (total paraphrase here).
I think that really is the approach PL takes, albeit a darker one, given what went on with the band. PL is driven by emotional strife, and the music captures that perfectly. Completely respect those that aren't into it. (TAC and I have gone around on this at least a dozen times, lol.) But for me, PL captures a band at a crossroads, and it is a fascinating look inside what was going on with them at the time.
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This is an album where there is a LOT more to it than just the notes played in the songs.
So? As a consumer, all I am interested in when I listen to music is the notes played in the songs. I don't care if the writer is expressing issues he has with his father, or if the band is experiencing emotional strife. I don't want a "look inside what was going on with them." If I did, I'd buy a biography.
I know it's not totally analogous, but it reminds me of the The Best of Times issue that revolved around Mike saying (paraphrasing) "How do you criticize this song, I wrote it for my father!" Not to sound crass, and I apologize to Mike for picking on him in this example, but I bought your album to listen to music.
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This is an album where there is a LOT more to it than just the notes played in the songs.
So? As a consumer, all I am interested in when I listen to music is the notes played in the songs. I don't care if the writer is expressing issues he has with his father, or if the band is experiencing emotional strife. I don't want a "look inside what was going on with them." If I did, I'd buy a biography.
I know it's not totally analogous, but it reminds me of the The Best of Times issue that revolved around Mike saying (paraphrasing) "How do you criticize this song, I wrote it for my father!" Not to sound crass, and I apologize to Mike for picking on him in this example, but I bought your album to listen to music.
That's all fine. Again, my comment wasn't aimed at you. If you don't like it, you don't like it. And if you don't connect with it, you don't connect with it. And if you don't care why, it doesn't matter why. That's all well and good. In a sense, the TBOT analogy is a good one. Your paraphrase is close enough to make the point--Mike is off base for not understanding that people may not like the song, and may not ultimately care to go beyond the fact that they just don't like the music. The fact behind why he wrote it isn't really relevant to someone's taste. But, to use that example, assume someone were to post about the song something along the lines of, "What a stupid song full of emotionless drivel. Mike has clearly lost the plot." I think that would be off base and clearly not understanding the song. Criticize away, on just about any basis that you like. But when the criticism attacks the motivation behind the music, and the critic's understanding of the motivation behind the music is off base, then the criticism itself becomes off base.
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Thank you for the reply, I understand your point more clearly now.
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(TAC and I have gone around on this at least a dozen times, lol.)
You mean at least a dozen YEARS, my friend. :lol
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Yeah, guys, I think I have to chalk up Promised Land as a solid miss for my taste. I'm not keen on listening to it over and over again trying to get it to grow on me so that's sadly a clunker and the only one I'm disappointed with (The Warning is interesting, not something I'd go back to often if ever but not disappointing). I'm going to pick up Hear In The Now Frontier and Condition Human from the record store this weekend. HITNF to give the band another listen and see what I think of this, but I'm ready to accept it might be the last Queensryche album pre-Todd that I pay for. I'll get Condition Human because I hear the Todd era is awesome (they don't have the self-titled there, just Q2K). Hope they're better than PL.
I know, I know, PL is a grower, etc. - just not into it, not looking for albums that I have to put in effort to appreciate.
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I don't see much value in trying to listen to something over and over if you already don't like it. If it doesn't suit your tastes, it doesn't suit your tastes. You don't have to go on a quest to the highest mountain to try to find something to latch onto. But that said, if you haven't given it one full listen with headphones or a good sound system where you can just listen and focus, I think you really should at least do that before giving up on it. As has already been said, it's more that kind of album than the kind that will just smack you upside the head even upon a casual listen. But if you've done that and it didn't click, yup, just chalk it up as a miss and move on.
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I have. It's just not doing it for me. I want that Rage For Order, Mindcrime vibe. Empire is good but not what made me really love the group, so it's just a couple steps below those two for my taste. Hoping Condition Human taps more into that vibe, even a little bit.
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I actually think that turning a CD on in the background is a good way to get into if people are telling me it is great and it is not grabbing me a few listens. Turn it on when you're doing housework, browsing the net, etc. That method worked for me a few times, as little things jumped out at me in those cases.
But I get not wanting to persist, since there is way too much good music in the word to spend too much trying to like something.
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Sometimes an album will take me years to get into. I'll listen to it a few times when it comes out, and get nothing out of it. Then I'll listen to it again many years later, and the lightbulb will come on and I'll love it from that point forward. A Matter of Life and Death from Iron Maiden was like that for me, and getting into Porcupine Tree was as well. I'd say not to force it, but if you get the inclination to put it in at a later time then go for it.
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I have. It's just not doing it for me. I want that Rage For Order, Mindcrime vibe. Empire is good but not what made me really love the group, so it's just a couple steps below those two for my taste. Hoping Condition Human taps more into that vibe, even a little bit.
Yeah, that's cool then. You've given it a shot. Not everybody connects with everything the same way.
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I have. It's just not doing it for me. I want that Rage For Order, Mindcrime vibe. Empire is good but not what made me really love the group, so it's just a couple steps below those two for my taste. Hoping Condition Human taps more into that vibe, even a little bit.
You know, I get that regarding PL. And your taste is your taste. I do think you should revisit it after a while, however. The most Rage-like moment on PL is the solo in Lady Jane. Very reminiscent of the Rage years. Had that vibe.
If what you're looking for is the RFO-Mindcrime vibe, then Condition Human should click with you. It's not as good as those, obviously, because it is a different band writing it with Todd and Eddie joining Wilton in the majority of the writing. But it is good, and I sorta view Condition Human as the record QR could have made after Mindcrime, had they not wanted to go with a warmer tone and go more polished. Condition Human reminds me a bit of No Exit Fates Warning, combined with Mindcrime, Rage, and a bit of Empire.
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I have. It's just not doing it for me. I want that Rage For Order, Mindcrime vibe. Empire is good but not what made me really love the group, so it's just a couple steps below those two for my taste. Hoping Condition Human taps more into that vibe, even a little bit.
You know, I get that regarding PL. And your taste is your taste. I do think you should revisit it after a while, however. The most Rage-like moment on PL is the solo in Lady Jane. Very reminiscent of the Rage years. Had that vibe.
If what you're looking for is the RFO-Mindcrime vibe, then Condition Human should click with you. It's not as good as those, obviously, because it is a different band writing it with Todd and Eddie joining Wilton in the majority of the writing. But it is good, and I sorta view Condition Human as the record QR could have made after Mindcrime, had they not wanted to go with a warmer tone and go more polished. Condition Human reminds me a bit of No Exit Fates Warning, combined with Mindcrime, Rage, and a bit of Empire.
Now THAT'S what I call a hype description. That's what I want to hear. :metal
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Oh yeah. I mean, the self-titled TLT era record was made to resemble Empire/Mindcrime a bit. But with Condition Human, more of Todd's preferences (IMO) crept into the vocals. I am positive you will dig Condition Human big time.
I haven''t listened to it in ages, as I no longer really care for modern QR, but I recall Eye9 and Hellfire being my clear favorites. The title track is a bit of a...I'd say it is very derivative of Roads to Madness meets Suite Sister Mary. And I don't care at all for the sappy 80s ballad Bulletproof (although a lot of people like that tune). But the rest is pretty damn good.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZChdS1pPXk&feature=share
Trunk on Rockenfield being MIA.
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It seems that he knows about it less than all of us! :D
Seriously apparently Eddie doesn’t even know that Queensryche is recording a new album without Scott.
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I just got the scoop on an interesting bit of information. This obviously shouldn't be taken as gospel, because I can't say who told me, but according to someone I know with ties to the band, Scott Rockenfield is back working with Geoff Tate. I doubt even the guys in Queensryche even know it yet. :lol
Since I can't reveal where the info came from, I realize most will take it as pure speculation, as you absolutely should. But I firmly believe it, and I figured that was what was going to happen after Scott's extended "parental leave" went well beyond what most do. Combine that with Scott likely not (I think Todd has said enough that we know Scott didn't) doing drums on Queensryche's album, this would set up a really interesting turn of events. The below is all speculative....
Tate is out there doing Mindcrime 30. Scott joins him. At least for now, Scott is still a principal member of Queensryche's corporation. So not only would Scott get his cut of the Queensryche profits, he'd no doubt get some sort of money for being back with Tate, if he is going to do shows. Double-dipping, anyone? :lol I can't imagine, if that is indeed what happens, that Wilton and Jackson would stand for it. They'd probably vote him out. Problem is -- they still would have to pay Scott his share of the band's value to cash him out, and I guarantee that they can't afford to do that. So, what I am getting at is, theoretically, what if Scott, as a member of Queensryche's corporation, gave Tate permission to use the name, and Tate/Rockenfield start booking as Queensryche - and neither Wilton or Jackson could do anything about it?
If that happens, it is only a matter of time before Eddie and Michael will be confronted about what to do. Tate is out there touring. Touring bars, sure, but touring. Queensryche is doing fly-ins. Would Eddie leave and join Tate/Rockenfield...particularly if they (Wilton/Jackson) couldn't pay Rockenfield AND Tate in regard to what they owe them (Tate in the settlement, and Rockenfield if he wants to cash out and leave the new QR corporation)? Eddie would follow the money. If that happens, then (keep following me), then Ed and Scott, along with Tate would have not only the ability to call themselves Queensryche, but also have the majority of the members. So who would look better to a promoter to book for a show? Wilton, Lundgren, La Torre, Grillo and a bass player? Or Queensryche's original lead singer, bassist and drummer? I know who most would book. Michael would have no choice to follow suit.
That sets up some crazy drama that is just about par for the course with this band. The person who told me about Rockenfield working with Tate is someone I've known for years and trust. I realize that most of you all will, and should, take the news about Rockenfield as pure rumor and speculation. But I am really anxious to see what goes down in the coming months and what the fallout will be if this Rockenfield reunion with Tate turns out to be true.
Sorry I didn't name names on this. I was asked not to use the person's name, and I need to honor that. And like I said, while I believe it is true, I'd encourage everyone to take it as pure speculation until it comes out, and if it doesn't, oh well.
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...what if Scott, as a member of Queensryche's corporation, gave Tate permission to use the name..
Without getting too much in to the legal aspects of QR's current business structure, can one member of QR do this? I can't imagine one member having the power to do that.
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Wow. I don't know you Samsara but it's more than evident that you know about Queensryche as much as John Petrucci knows about guitars, so I believe you. Having said that, I wonder what possessed Scott to do this. They enter in a personal and artistic downward spiral for years, they reach the breaking point, they split, they rebuild a fanbase and then he just goes back to the original singer that spat on him? that's like James LaBrie quitting DT to front Sons of Apollo. Or Jordan in place of Derek if you will.
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If this is true Scott would be an even greater douchebag than Tate has ever been. And it would be the end of anything with the name Queensryche on it, because who would take them seriously?
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If Scott is working again with Geoff, no question this is stage one of a reunion. How it plays out exactly, well it sounds like you will need a spreadsheet to figure that out lol.
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If they want to reunite, sit down and talk about it with all who are involved.
Talking about parental leave and then working with Geoff and (presumably) not informing the others is just shit and shouldn't lead to a reunion. In this case they should just lay the name Queensryche to rest and call it a day.
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Interesting - I saw them (and met them) on the Condition Human tour and had a feeling Scott in particular didn't want to be there.
Given the way Tate treated him it's hard to imagine a reason why other than $$.
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https://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/queensryche2
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If it is indeed true that Michael and Eddie can't afford to buy Scott out, I assume they don't have much choice, other than let him do whatever the hell he wants to and finally let Tate back in - given that they already met at the Spanish festival last year and (seemingly) made peace with each other, it's not impossible.
The most likely scenario in my head is that QR will put out the new album and play shows in support of it for a year or so (with Grillo on drums), while Geoff and Scott go out and tour with the Mindcrime theme for the umpteenth time. Once QR is done promoting the album, there'll be an inevitable reunion.
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I really hope this reunion doesn't happen...
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Scott goes back working with a piece of shit that spits on him in front of an audience? No wonder you guys took 20 years to get rid of this guy, weak as piss.
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Really weird thing to happen. But maybe that happened because of families friendship? Scott and Geoff ‘s wives were/are close friends, right?
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This is as ridiculous as the whole mess that Yes went through last year. :lol
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There's also a rumor in some groups that the guys all have day jobs and that the band is on the verge of folding up. Who knows if that is true or not, but they apparently are down to just one road-crew member and some of the band members themselves are now setting up their own gear at shows, likely to cut costs for these fly-in gigs.
If you're not going to slog it out on the road (5 shows in a row, day off, etc.) for a month or two at a time, touring income is eventually going to dry up, and you'll start booking gigs at theme and water parks, like the band is doing now.
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All of this is just sad. I really hoped kicking out Tater and the new energy with La Torre would kick-start them back in to some kind of limelight. Sadly, not the case... which is too bad, because QR and Condition Human are two really good albums.
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Man, if Scott would end up touring with Geoff... what a shit show. I thought this saga couldn't get any weirder or worse, but I might officially wash my hands of all things Queensryche and Geoff Tate depending on how that would shake out.
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Wow. Just when you think it can't get wilder...
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more evidence Chris was the smart one.
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more evidence Chris was the smart one.
Right? I'd rather fly planes and hang out with my family as well, if my other option was to continue working with the personalities in this band.
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Sounds like a big bag of baloney if you ask me.
April 1st is early this year :lol
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Sounds like a big bag of baloney if you ask me.
April 1st is early this year :lol
:lol
It isn't, but I totally see why some such as yourself may think so. But I will say this, if there is one constant in Queensryche's history, particularly over the last 20 years, it is that they follow the money. Particularly Scott. So I believe it.
What a shit show. :rollin
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There's also a rumor in some groups that the guys all have day jobs and that the band is on the verge of folding up. Who knows if that is true or not, but they apparently are down to just one road-crew member and some of the band members themselves are now setting up their own gear at shows, likely to cut costs for these fly-in gigs.
If you're not going to slog it out on the road (5 shows in a row, day off, etc.) for a month or two at a time, touring income is eventually going to dry up, and you'll start booking gigs at theme and water parks, like the band is doing now.
Wouldn't doubt it. I heard they shit-canned their long time crew member (whose last position was tour manager) in December. literally told him before Christmas "see you in January," and then called him up a week later and fired him. After like 13 or 14 years of working for them.
It's all crumbling around them, which is, ironically, what certain people have said would happen all along if they made certain decisions. :lol :facepalm:
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Which decisions?
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I still find it hard to believe that a Tateryche with Scott would make more money, especially for Scott, than a Queensryche with TLT and a new record followed by a new tour.
Not that the TLT fronted QR will make huge amounts of cash, those days are gone forever.
And I'm also not sure that a reunited QR will make tons of cash and even less so if they are forced to reunite because of Scott's actions and not because of a mutual agreement.
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I still find it hard to believe that a Tateryche with Scott would make more money, especially for Scott, than a Queensryche with TLT and a new record followed by a new tour.
Remember, current Queensryche cannot perform Operation: Mindcrime in its entirety. Geoff can. If you reunite Geoff and Scott, and bill it as Queensryche, and go out and perform Mindcrime (again, ugh), promoters will pay them more than current QR who as Grappler said, are playing theme parks. And the more original members, the more those guarantees will go up.
And I'm also not sure that a reunited QR will make tons of cash and even less so if they are forced to reunite because of Scott's actions and not because of a mutual agreement.
TONS of cash? No, those days are gone. But decent cash, for sure. I mean, I am not personally interested unless it was the full original five, but I guarantee you a lineup of Tate/Wilton/Jackson/Rockenfield...and say Mike Stone or Kelly Gray (yes, seriously) and a new album and tour celebrating Mindcrime will make a lot more than the current Queensryche.
Which decisions?
:lol
How much time you got? Seriously though, decisions regarding how the current Queensryche handled its business. They made a grave mistake in choosing to do fly-in dates and wrapping their arms around hair metal and casino gigs. I remember back in summer 2012, they had a choice. They could go slug it out on the road, in a bus, like the old days of being a metal band, or they could do the casino/fly-in route. The former would pay less at first, but establish them better, the latter would pay more, but they'd pigeon hole themselves.
Well...
And then there was that whole mistake of never playing enough new material, and playing the same setlist over and over (ironically, the board of trolls that stalks me around the Internet now complain about the same thing they used to rag on me about doing, bunch of jackasses, ha ha ha ha), has firmly thrown them in the nostalgia circuit. Dumb. Had they done as was suggested by more than a few people, and played 90-minute sets, with 18 songs, and devoted at least a third of every set to material from the TLT era and spotlighted it, they could have really made their new music a presence, instead of an afterthought, like it has now become.
I could go on, but why? :lol
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Not sure I want to believe the Scott and Tate rumors of working together again. The pledge campaign still has Scott on the main picture.
Scott has worked in movie and TV scores. That's where I believe there might be some truth in that he doesn't want to tour anymore as well as being present with his newborn son. He could have just tracked the drums in the studio and Casey would handle the live playing. Hopefully some light is shed to this QR drama.
I do agree with Samsara's business opinion on how they (imo) erred and decided to stick to the casino touring cycle. They should have built the QR brand up again from scratch with TLT.
I guess we will find out during the next few months on QR's future.
Anyways, has anyone pre-ordered the album?
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There's also a rumor in some groups that the guys all have day jobs and that the band is on the verge of folding up. Who knows if that is true or not, but they apparently are down to just one road-crew member and some of the band members themselves are now setting up their own gear at shows, likely to cut costs for these fly-in gigs.
If you're not going to slog it out on the road (5 shows in a row, day off, etc.) for a month or two at a time, touring income is eventually going to dry up, and you'll start booking gigs at theme and water parks, like the band is doing now.
Wouldn't doubt it. I heard they shit-canned their long time crew member (whose last position was tour manager) in December. literally told him before Christmas "see you in January," and then called him up a week later and fired him. After like 13 or 14 years of working for them.
It's all crumbling around them, which is, ironically, what certain people have said would happen all along if they made certain decisions. :lol :facepalm:
Was that Bender by chance? Got to hang out with him after a show in Allentown on the DtC tour, really nice guy.
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All of this is just sad. I really hoped kicking out Tater and the new energy with La Torre would kick-start them back in to some kind of limelight. Sadly, not the case... which is too bad, because QR and Condition Human are two really good albums.
Sadly, I think it might've been too little too late, regardless of how they chose to do business after binning the Tates and hiring TLT.
I rather suspect the Tates had already driven the QR bus off the cliff and it was likely only ever going to be a case of how slowly they could manage to float their way down to retirement. Speculation as to which thermals they might've ridden along the way is only that.
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Was that Bender by chance? Got to hang out with him after a show in Allentown on the DtC tour, really nice guy.
Not sure if Bender still works for them (and yes, he is a dynamite guy). But no, that wasn't who I was referring to.
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All of this is just sad. I really hoped kicking out Tater and the new energy with La Torre would kick-start them back in to some kind of limelight. Sadly, not the case... which is too bad, because QR and Condition Human are two really good albums.
Sadly, I think it might've been too little too late, regardless of how they chose to do business after binning the Tates and hiring TLT.
I rather suspect the Tates had already driven the QR bus off the cliff and it was likely only ever going to be a case of how slowly they could manage to float their way down to retirement. Speculation as to which thermals they might've ridden along the way is only that.
It wasn't too late, but it would have required a complete commitment to busting their ass and working hard. Anthrax was riding high after WCFYA came out. Then came the Dan Nelson era, and Jon Bush saying no to returning. They just got a lineup together with Joey and started touring. They opened for so many bands, whether it was the Big 4 or a Testament/Slayer/Megadeth club or theater tour. It took years, but they're finally headlining their own tours again, after their last two releases.
Iced Earth has done the same. Barlow quits, Stu Block enters, and the band became road dogs. They wore themselves out on the road over a period of 3 years, but it seems to be paying off. Stu has played more shows with the band than all of the band's prior 4 singers combined.
Sabaton has opened for bands like Iced Earth, Nightwish, Amon Amarth, and Accept in the US - all very different types of metal, with varied fanbases. They are now headlining their own tour with a full production and stage show after 5 or so years of being an opening act.
QR could have done the same - try to get on as many tours as possible, open for lots of different types of bands. Show a commitment to the fact that they are firmly a metal band again. They signed to Century Media, home of Iced Earth, Lacuna Coil, and Arch Enemy. Get in front of some power metal fans, get in front of some death metal fans, or some thrash fans. Co-headline with Symphony X and Fates Warning, take out Tesseract, do a special show for ProgPower USA - show some commitment to the prog metal genre, of which they do belong to. Show the world that you are METAL again.
For all of Wilton's talk of "rebuilding the brand," all they did was get in front of their own hair-metal fans, since casinos and state fairs would pay their full guarantee, rather than taking a reduced fee and making up for it with a longer tour. They chose money over time. Sure, they played to bigger crowds and got some exposure with Todd, but those fans only want to hear Empire and Jet City Woman, and are satisfied with hearing the same songs over and over again. Maybe they made some money at first, but it truly hurt their image. They had a chance to really change how they looked to the general public (a one-hit, hair-band wonder), but didn't.
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Anyways, has anyone pre-ordered the album?
I pre-ordered Condition Human on the PledgeMusic, I think like one year before the album was released and, as a "cool bonus to the faithfull fan", my CD didn’t have the regular european bonus track, much less the another 2 others tracks released on vinyl. I paid more, ahead of time and received less...I’ll pass this time.
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And just to clarify, since it has gone on a couple of pages now. The only thing I was told was that Rockenfield has joined forces with Tate. Whether you believe that or not is obviously up to you (I happen to). But any of the fallout from that we've been discussing is entirely speculative.
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And just to clarify, since it has gone on a couple of pages now. The only thing I was told was that Rockenfield has joined forces with Tate. Whether you believe that or not is obviously up to you (I happen to). But any of the fallout from that we've been discussing is entirely speculative.
As someone who's currently digging through the rest of the hilariously bizarre history of this band, shhhh. There's not enough :corn :corn :corn for this!
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And just to clarify, since it has gone on a couple of pages now. The only thing I was told was that Rockenfield has joined forces with Tate. Whether you believe that or not is obviously up to you (I happen to). But any of the fallout from that we've been discussing is entirely speculative.
As someone who's currently digging through the rest of the hilariously bizarre history of this band, shhhh. There's not enough :corn :corn :corn for this!
As a friend of mine just texted me "at least this shit is better than daytime TV." :rollin
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How much time you got? Seriously though, decisions regarding how the current Queensryche handled its business. They made a grave mistake in choosing to do fly-in dates and wrapping their arms around hair metal and casino gigs. I remember back in summer 2012, they had a choice. They could go slug it out on the road, in a bus, like the old days of being a metal band, or they could do the casino/fly-in route. The former would pay less at first, but establish them better, the latter would pay more, but they'd pigeon hole themselves.
Well...
And then there was that whole mistake of never playing enough new material, and playing the same setlist over and over (ironically, the board of trolls that stalks me around the Internet now complain about the same thing they used to rag on me about doing, bunch of jackasses, ha ha ha ha), has firmly thrown them in the nostalgia circuit. Dumb. Had they done as was suggested by more than a few people, and played 90-minute sets, with 18 songs, and devoted at least a third of every set to material from the TLT era and spotlighted it, they could have really made their new music a presence, instead of an afterthought, like it has now become.
I was trying to figure out what exactly went wrong with the new incarnation of Queensryche, because it seemed like the sun was shining bright about three or four years ago. But this might be the background I was wondering about. It's such a shame they couldn't or didn't want to capitalize on their new-found reputation by touring more frequently, puting a spotlight on their new songs when performing live and shaking things up with the set list regarding older material. I'm only not sure if they tried to do it but it didn't work out or they didn't even go for it. Either way, I find the development very sad.
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So to humor this situation, from my point of view on this speculation of Scott Rockenfield rejoining up with Geoff Tate, and even Kelly Gray in a supposed second version of Queensryche. Which by the way, I'll believe when I see it. I'm going to re-post here a few posts that I put up on my site under a thread I titled,
A Two Queensryche Scenario.
So, given the rumor that our feathered friend (blackbird, aka samsara) has put forth in conjunction with the facebook caption from Kelly Gray that Bgs1972 posted, lets humor this situation just for shits and giggles, shall we. As to what that might look like and how that might play out. Because I kind of already know the answer, if by some miraculous twist of insanity Scott completely lost his marbles and did such a thing.
So, lets say that some way and some how. Scott decided to join forces with Geoff Tate and Kelly Gray was going to be in the fold along with Scott Mouton as the guitar tandem. and we'll throw the current dude that is playing bass on the European tour ( I don't know his name off the top of my head) in the mix for the sake of completing the lineup. Now, in addition to that, we need some sort of legal scenario to unfold to somehow give them the rights to also call themselves Queensryche. So lets assume that that somehow happened. So now we have our lineup, we have them going out as Queensryche #2.
Now, we have to really get into some kind of further impossibility in order for this to take place and happen as soon as later this year to capitalize on this whole 30th Anniversary of Mindcrime thing, since that is Geoff's bread and butter and would probably be the reason for this crazy scenario to even unfold. Can the legalities involved in getting court approval to use the name be sorted out that fast, I highly doubt it, but again lets pretend it did. So they are going to go out and play the North American tour for the Operation Mindcrime 30th Anniversary. We'll say in the fall.
Here are some facts real quick. I don't care what he calls the band, and I don't think it would matter much of a hill of beans that Scott were playing the drums. Because the fact of the matter is he is playing an album that has been done to death, so much so that most of the biggest fans of that record residing on the earth no longer bother to go see it live. Especially with that guitar tandem (which has been done pretty much, and whoever on bass). Scott would be an improvement on the drums. The rest of the production would be the same.
The same one that is lucky to draw two hundred/ two hundred fifty people to a bar. Which is what I witnessed when I went to see him do it five years ago on the 25th anniversary (when he was also permitted to use the Queensryche name mind you) at a little side bar in the now closed Revel Casino in Atlantic City, which there may have been two hundred and fifty people at (and that is a conservative high side number).
Now it's five years later, I think there is less of a draw for it now, with all the bad publicity it gets every time the you tube vids go up, read the comments. This would be a small to mid size bar/club tour with empty seats/or plenty of elbow room to spare. Scott is not going to do that kind of tour itinerary that Geoff has been doing with a slew of dates strung together in succession the last couple years (hence I'm sure he is one of the major factors for the fly in shows, I doubt it's Todd or Parker), especially for the peanuts that that tour would pull in cash wise after just having his kid that he wants to stay home with (another dilemma, unless that was all a farce, but I kinda doubt that is how it started if this were true).
Geoff Tate's credibility in the public eye has been in the toilet for some years now, with little improvement on that front that I have witnessed reading comments around the net. Kelly Gray's playing has been absolutely crucified from the bdr to blabbermouth and all points in between by the fan base since he first stepped foot in the band on Q2K, to the Oven Mitts nickname, to the Operation Mindcrime trilogy. This reputation by my observation has not improved any in recent times. There are also a lot of people who do not like Scott Mouton due to his past legal indiscretions. There will also be people who, believe it or not, will not go because Scott sold himself to the devil in joining back up with Tate, that may have otherwise went because they have adapted to enjoying the two entities as separate animals. There are also purists who won't go to either because it is not the original, or enough of the original lineup in either band. So what kind of cash exactly is this tour going to bring in to be able to rub two nickels together having to pay Scott his fair share?
That's the tour...
Now lets really get a laugh here and lets say they record a new album, the lineup stated above with the ability to call themselves Queensryche. We've been here before. Frequency Unknown was one of the most lambasted records in heavy metal history by my observation, so much so that it led to a " why I hate Frequency Unknown" campaign and the ridiculous rant contest or whatever that horseshit was. and I actually liked the record. It also didn't sell worth a shit.
Since then Geoff has released three more albums in his trilogy set over the last three years, each of which hasn't been represented live, have been all but disregarded by most at best , crucified by many at worst, and haven't sold worth a shit either. And again, there's no animosity here, I actually liked the fuckin records.
So you tell me how the simple addition of being able to have the name Queensryche on it (for the second time) and having Scott Rockenfield in the band on drums (who arguably isn't even a primary songwriter) is going to make some miraculous difference? Geoff will still write the same kinda stuff as he has been with the help of Kelly Gray and outside writers with some assistance from Scott, and they will release a subpar shitty album along the lines of the four aforementioned that barely anybody bought and nobody besides me and a few hundred other people evidently even liked with a heaping sprinkling of yes...wait for it, Dedicated To Chaos sprinkled in for good measure ;D Man that will sell like hot cakes, people will be lined up out the door at the shows too.... at Franks Pub.
What are your thoughts???
Now, lets discuss the fallout and ramifications of what would be left of the real Queensryche lineup if this were to occur.
The Lineup would still contain two original members, much as the other one. Featuring Michael Wilton and Eddie Jackson, they would have the bonus of still enjoying Parker Lundgren in the band for their guitar tandem completion (he who has been with the band now for ten years and has played on three studio albums, four if you count the upcoming release, which is two more than Kelly Gray did without counting the upcoming release). Todd LaTorre remaining on vocals having two (three if you count the upcoming release) albums under his belt. For drums since he would be the likely candidate at present, we will go with Casey Grillo (who the fans seem to be warm to and like as the temporary fill in and seems to be doing quite a competent and professional job at the task at hand).
This lineup is about to release a new record later in the year, which by all estimations should, at a minimum be pretty fucking good by most peoples expectations, given the performance and reviews of the last two. Not to mention if the speculation holds true Scott's playing will not even be on the damn thing, so ya won't even be able to say he had anything to do with what comes out of your speakers. All props or detractions will go to whoever the hell played the drums on it, and there will be some, I'm sure. But if the songs are good and kick ass, well then the songs are good and kick ass. I for one suspect that they will, with or without Scott's drums.
This lineups live show, and I've looked and done the research is still getting rave live reviews with Casey on the skins. So that would continue to be the case. Todd, well what can ya say the dude can flat out belt it, and he will do the same thing he has been doing for the last, about six years now bringing it live, bringing a resurgent energy, and belting it out. Blowing away by leaps and bounds Tate's current vocal state and anybody that argues to that contrary is fucking deaf. I recommend you go see a show, go see them both (I have) then come talk to me.
So by my estimation the real Queensryche would be the more established live entity, would still draw more people, would outsell the other lineup's record (no, neither will set the world on fire with sales, but would out sell theirs none the less). This Queensryche lineup would by far be the better and more energetic live band. This band would blow that band off the stage with technical playing skills, albeit a nod to Scott on the drums for the other lineup (but he can't fix the vocals or the guitar work) and this lineup's album would smoke the other Queensryche's record in an embarrassing manner, mark my words.
* I thought this applied in this rumor mill speculation and would offer a view point on if this were to happen by some crazy circumstance :corn
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The great thing about speculation is just that. It is speculation, for fun. Some turns out, some doesnt.
If scott is working with tate again (and i believe he is), what happens from there will be interesting to say the least. After all, isnt that what message boards are for? Unless, of course, folks use mbs for trolling. Thats just pathetic. :lol
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I'm not following any of this Scott stuff, but after all that went down, why would Scott get back with Geoff? It really doesn't make any sense. Was it everyone but him who wanted to start Rising West? I hardly visit this thread, and just randomly clicked, but the resident Queensryche nut thinks Scott is working with Geoff again, so he must have a good reason.
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In retrospect, it sounds Queensryche made a bad deal by giving up the rights to play Mindcrime as a whole to Tate. Given how playing classic albums on an anniversary has been the live rave for aging artists for quite a few years now, that was probably the one card they still had to play as far as attracting decent size crowds over the span of a whole tour, and they handed that card to Tate. This band is a disaster, and let's face it, pretty much has been for over 20 years now.
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The great thing about speculation is just that. It is speculation, for fun. Some turns out, some doesnt.
If scott is working with tate again (and i believe he is), what happens from there will be interesting to say the least. After all, isnt that what message boards are for? Unless, of course, folks use mbs for trolling. Thats just pathetic. :lol
But you're not really just speculating though. You waltz in here claiming to have inside-knowledge, claiming that this is definitely happening.
Speculation would have been looking at Kelly Gray's picture on Facebook, and guessing that Scott was back to working with Geoff again.
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The great thing about speculation is just that. It is speculation, for fun. Some turns out, some doesnt.
If scott is working with tate again (and i believe he is), what happens from there will be interesting to say the least. After all, isnt that what message boards are for? Unless, of course, folks use mbs for trolling. Thats just pathetic. :lol
But you're not really just speculating though. You waltz in here claiming to have inside-knowledge, claiming that this is definitely happening.
Speculation would have been looking at Kelly Gray's picture on Facebook, and guessing that Scott was back to working with Geoff again.
Actually, you're incorrect. I didn't waltz in here. I've been a member for I don't know, a decade? Maybe more? :lol
Second, I came in with knowledge saying that I was told by someone I trust, who has connections with the band, that Rockenfield is working with Tate. That's all I said.
After that, I speculated what may end up happening. You know, an opinion on a potential outcome based on what I was told. So no, I didn't claim anything was happening, except for the fact that I was told Scott is working with Geoff.
Please get things straight before you start accusing people of things. Thanks. ;)
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I'm not following any of this Scott stuff, but after all that went down, why would Scott get back with Geoff? It really doesn't make any sense. Was it everyone but him who wanted to start Rising West? I hardly visit this thread, and just randomly clicked, but the resident Queensryche nut thinks Scott is working with Geoff again, so he must have a good reason.
Resident Queensryche nut? :rollin
From what I heard, Tate spoke up for Rockenfield during Rockenfield's recent divorce proceedings, which could have been something that got them talking again. As for why he would do it, if you go back to my speculative post on potential outcomes, I explain that money could be a defining reasons.
In retrospect, it sounds Queensryche made a bad deal by giving up the rights to play Mindcrime as a whole to Tate. Given how playing classic albums on an anniversary has been the live rave for aging artists for quite a few years now, that was probably the one card they still had to play as far as attracting decent size crowds over the span of a whole tour, and they handed that card to Tate. This band is a disaster, and let's face it, pretty much has been for over 20 years now.
They did. Although at the time, they felt the name was worth it, and I can't say I blame them. But yeah, the band is a disaster, unfortunately. But I will give TLT-era QR this. Their first two records were good. They just for whatever reason didn't really spotlight them in all the shows they did.
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Setzer and njfirefighter, you both need to tone it down. Just because you may disagree with or dislike somebody else's opinion doesn't give you the right go start attacking. Your "attacks" were fairly mild, so this is more of an informal warning. But I will say this before it escalates: keep it respectful.
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I didn't attack anyone :facepalm:
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As I think I mentioned in the discography thread, the new material isn't bad (especially Condition Human) but the band has essentially become a nostalgia act. It's hard to get excited about their new music when the band itself doesn't seem to care enough about it to play more of it live. Seeing them follow the gigging patterns and festivals of hair metal bands seems wrong. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with those bands, but I feel like Queensryche's audience should be similar to a band like Fates Warning at this point.
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I feel like Queensryche's audience should be similar to a band like Fates Warning at this point.
This exactly. I had never really thought about it in those terms, but after seeing you mention it, it makes perfect sense. In fact, each of those bands would benefit greatly by doing a co-headline tour together at some point.
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I bought The Warning today so I now have all five of their first albums. And I also got Condition Human since I'm not eager to hear HITNF after Promised Land disappointed me. :metal
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I bought The Warning today so I now have all five of their first albums. And I also got Condition Human since I'm not eager to hear HITNF after Promised Land disappointed me. :metal
I'm fairly sure the "Ear" album is easier to get into than Promised Land. It certainly has quite a good selection of tracks in my opinion :)
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I bought The Warning today so I now have all five of their first albums. And I also got Condition Human since I'm not eager to hear HITNF after Promised Land disappointed me. :metal
Kattoelox,
You'll love Condition Human. And The Warning's mix is horrendous. I am sure you read all about it on the discography thread. But that record really slays, despite the mix and other stuff. Hear in the Now Frontier is more accessible than PL, but it really does take a turn a bit toward's Queensryche's version of alternative hard rock. Not entirely, that would be an error to think QR is playing alternative. But the production and style really have a whiff of it for sure. I really enjoy it. A lot more than I used to. I have a much bigger appreciation for what DeGarmo was trying to do with it. Still a bunch of filler, but some other damn good songs.
Enjoy the trip!
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Man I can't get enough of this QR drama. To a casual observer it seems the largest failing of QR ever maintaining success was their own personalities/ego.
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It'll be nice to listen to the actual Warning proper, since the copy I picked up is the true blue original from 1984. The copy on Spotify was the expanded and remastered version with live tracks peppered between the studio ones so it was frustrating to listen to as a newbie. And Samsara, that's great to hear about Condition Human. I caught a moment of the music as I was ripping the CD but will get around to it next week sometime if I don't hear it tomorrow, but it sounded awesome, much more what I wanted from the band instead of Promised Land. Rock on :metal
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I bought The Warning today so I now have all five of their first albums. And I also got Condition Human since I'm not eager to hear HITNF after Promised Land disappointed me. :metal
The only songs from HITNF that you should check out are Sign of the Times, You, Reach, Hit the Black, and Spool. Reach and Hit the Black are two of the more heavier sounding songs, and Spool continues their tradition of having awesome, epic album-closing tracks.
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I bought The Warning today so I now have all five of their first albums. And I also got Condition Human since I'm not eager to hear HITNF after Promised Land disappointed me. :metal
The only songs from HITNF that you should check out are Sign of the Times, You, Reach, Hit the Black, and Spool. Reach and Hit the Black are two of the more heavier sounding songs, and Spool continues their tradition of having awesome, epic album-closing tracks.
:tdwn
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Man I can't get enough of this QR drama.
The funniest/sadest thing about all this drama is that this is for a band whose last big hit album was 27 years ago! (23 if you count PL)
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I probably posted this several pages ago, but I for one thought Queensryche did a fine job with their interpretation of the alternative/grunge sound on Hear in the now frontier. It's not a great album by any means, but the style itself is not the problem. Had they cut out three tracks (I nominate Save me, All I want and Some people fly) and handed off the album to someone that could have done a better production, it would have been a fun album to listen to once in a while.
Sometimes I wish the band ended with Promised land, but even had the HITNF been the last one, it would have still been interesting. Even Q2K, as mediocre as it is, had some integrity and the band at least tried to deliver, so it wouldn't have been a shame if that was the last album. The whole next decade is a HUGE mess.
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(I nominate Save me, All I want and Some people fly)
2 of those are my favourites on the album, so needless to say I disagree.
Mine would be Hit The Black & Anytime/Anywhere (so go right from All I Want to Spool). While there are other tracks I find worse than these two, these are the two tracks that I think serve the least purpose in the overall album. As much as I hate Saved, it'd be a lot less heavy of an album had it not been included. Anytime/Anywhere on the other hand, I don't think there's anyone who'd actively say it's their favourite. & HTB the worst QR song ever imo, so yeah I'd kick that out too.
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In retrospect, it sounds Queensryche made a bad deal by giving up the rights to play Mindcrime as a whole to Tate. Given how playing classic albums on an anniversary has been the live rave for aging artists for quite a few years now, that was probably the one card they still had to play as far as attracting decent size crowds over the span of a whole tour, and they handed that card to Tate. This band is a disaster, and let's face it, pretty much has been for over 20 years now.
I think they did the right move. They kept the name, got rid of Geoff, and the price to pay was to not play anymore in full an album that
- Has been played in full many times
- Has been played in lenghty suites dedicated to it many times
That was a small sacrifice to make, considering that nothing forbids them to play 2/3 of the album in a row during the shows.
They should have honored other classic albums however like Rage for Order and Empire and play those in full.
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(I nominate Save me, All I want and Some people fly)
2 of those are my favourites on the album, so needless to say I disagree.
Mine would be Hit The Black & Anytime/Anywhere (so go right from All I Want to Spool). While there are other tracks I find worse than these two, these are the two tracks that I think serve the least purpose in the overall album. As much as I hate Saved, it'd be a lot less heavy of an album had it not been included. Anytime/Anywhere on the other hand, I don't think there's anyone who'd actively say it's their favourite. & HTB the worst QR song ever imo, so yeah I'd kick that out too.
If Hear in the Now Frontier was just these:
Sign of the Times
You
The Voice Inside
Some People Fly
Chasing Blue Sky (should have been an album track instead of a b-side)
Reach
Hero
Hit the Black
spOOL
>>>>>>>>>>then I'd absolutely love the record. I'm not sure of the running time for nine songs, but that would have worked for me. The lyrics to all of those are great except for You, and I really dig all those songs big time. The problem for me is the six other songs just sound like filler. Get a Life has terrible lyrics, Cuckoo's Nest has good lyrics, bad music, Miles Away goes nowhere, Saved is heavy to be heavy that sounds like a demo, All I Want is too Beatle-ly, and is more like a demo, and Anytime/Anywhere is interesting musically, but trash lyrically.
I've never actually put that together as a playlist, but I should. I still listen to HITNF in rotation, but I mostly just let the album run (although I do skip Miles Away, All I Want, and Anytime/anywhere).
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That is one of the main hang ups for me for HITNF. Just so much mediocre filler.
The less is more mentality is so true in alot of things and a condensed version of this album would make it so much better. Still a downgrade I think for the music that Queensryche had been putting out, but much more playable and enjoyable with only 9 or 10 songs on it.
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Just so much mediocre filler.
Is there any other kind of filler? :neverusethis:
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Just so much mediocre filler.
Is there any other kind of filler? :neverusethis:
Yeah, the smashing hit fillers. Paranoid and You've Got Another Thing Coming are both fillers in the actual sense of the word: songs written to fill up an otherwise too much short album.
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Just so much mediocre filler.
Is there any other kind of filler? :neverusethis:
The "this really blows" filler.
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(I nominate Save me, All I want and Some people fly)
2 of those are my favourites on the album, so needless to say I disagree.
Mine would be Hit The Black & Anytime/Anywhere (so go right from All I Want to Spool). While there are other tracks I find worse than these two, these are the two tracks that I think serve the least purpose in the overall album. As much as I hate Saved, it'd be a lot less heavy of an album had it not been included. Anytime/Anywhere on the other hand, I don't think there's anyone who'd actively say it's their favourite. & HTB the worst QR song ever imo, so yeah I'd kick that out too.
If Hear in the Now Frontier was just these:
Sign of the Times
You
The Voice Inside
Some People Fly
Chasing Blue Sky (should have been an album track instead of a b-side)
Reach
Hero
Hit the Black
spOOL
>>>>>>>>>>then I'd absolutely love the record. I'm not sure of the running time for nine songs, but that would have worked for me.
That'd be 37:37 - longer than the self-titled :biggrin:
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(I nominate Save me, All I want and Some people fly) and handed off the album to someone that could have done a better production, it would have been a fun album to listen to once in a while.
All three of those are songs I really like. Mind you, there's very little of HiTNF that I don't like and I'm in the minority that love that album... If I were going to drop any song it would be Hero and even that song I quite like!
I do think it was a mistake to go all in on the dry, stark production style, though.
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I can see that Cuckoo's nest and Get a life are usually thought of as weaker songs on the album, but I love both of those. Had they been released by other band, they would have been hits. Also, Hit the black is quite heavy as well, the opening riff gets me going. :metal
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I do think it was a mistake to go all in on the dry, stark production style, though.
As do I. I've always wondered what HITNF would sound like remixed and with a less dated production value. Doubt it'll ever happen, but it would probably be pretty cool.
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HITNF is a good example that DeGarmo is not the savior everyone thinks he is. This album shows that he was going downhill, well at least for that one. I love his tracks on Tribe but I also love many of the non-Degarmo tracks on Tribe as well.
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HITNF is a good example that DeGarmo is not the savior everyone thinks he is. This album shows that he was going downhill, well at least for that one. I love his tracks on Tribe but I also love many of the non-Degarmo tracks on Tribe as well.
I think it is evidence that he and the band pushed the boundary of what Queensryche can do musically too far. You can have open-minded fans, but at the end of the day, when you strip away what made the band interesting and popular to people in the first place, you're setting yourself up for career suicide.
I think DeGarmo's writing followed a natural progression, but HITNF lacked the production and careful working over the songs to really make them work. If I remember right, that was basically how the record was explained in the press. They didn't do a ton of demos. They came up with a song, ran through it, recorded it. There wasn't a lot of time given to sit on the songs, and work them over. I think that approach was a big mistake.
The DeGarmo tracks in the Tribe sessions (Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, Art of Life, Doin' Fine, and Justified) sort of address that to a degree. The production is better, and those songs were worked over a bit, at least musically, before being recorded (Scott has mentioned multiple times that Desert Dance went through many iterations before they finished it). The result is, those tracks sound like a natural continuation of where they went on HITNF, but with more care and work.
I really do appreciate HITNF much more now. Lyrically, I find it to be one of the band's most diverse. A few clunkers, but some really good social commentary and the intelligent bent we came to know from them (again, with some of the songs being clunkers in that department).
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Anyways, has anyone pre-ordered the album?
I pre-ordered Condition Human on the PledgeMusic, I think like one year before the album was released and, as a "cool bonus to the faithfull fan", my CD didn’t have the regular european bonus track, much less the another 2 others tracks released on vinyl. I paid more, ahead of time and received less...I’ll pass this time.
I asked about it on Facebook and the response was that:
It will be the same as last year. The label has separate agreements to release bonus tracks to other distributors to help get our album released world-wide. It's like that for most artists, sorry!
Well, so it’s a label thing and not band’s fault... anyway, it was cool the band to clarify that!
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Friend of mine is sending me the Promised Land CD-ROM game. I look forward to its early 90s crappiness :lol
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My personal tracklist for HITNF would be something like this (46:40 in total, not too far from Rage's length):
1. The Voice Inside
2. You
3. Sign of the Times
4. Hit the Black
5. Hero
6. Miles Away
7. Reach
8. Chasing Blue Sky
9. Saved
10. Some People Fly
11. spOOL
To me that would be a pretty solid record, with the awful clunkers (Anytime/Anywhere, Get a Life) and otherwise unfitting (All I Want) or meh (Cuckoo's Nest) songs removed. Not as great as the preceding 4 albums obviously, but I might actually prefer it to The Warning.
Anyways, has anyone pre-ordered the album?
I pre-ordered Condition Human on the PledgeMusic, I think like one year before the album was released and, as a "cool bonus to the faithfull fan", my CD didn’t have the regular european bonus track, much less the another 2 others tracks released on vinyl. I paid more, ahead of time and received less...I’ll pass this time.
I asked about it on Facebook and the response was that:
It will be the same as last year. The label has separate agreements to release bonus tracks to other distributors to help get our album released world-wide. It's like that for most artists, sorry!
Well, so it’s a label thing and not band’s fault... anyway, it was cool the band clarify that!
Ehh, looks like I'll order it from a regular record store instead then. I hated not getting any bonus tracks with the pledge CD last time.
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Setzer and njfirefighter, you both need to tone it down. Just because you may disagree with or dislike somebody else's opinion doesn't give you the right go start attacking. Your "attacks" were fairly mild, so this is more of an informal warning. But I will say this before it escalates: keep it respectful.
I certainly did not "attack" anyone. I wasn't even talking to anyone in particular, I merely posted my thoughts on that band scenario and situation as a repost to give my perspective on what a two Queensryche situation would look like and how it would fare. I'm only posting this on here because I was publicly called out on it. I'll PM you Bosk to discuss it further in private. I have posted in many other threads on here, I think that was an over-reaction. If you look through all my posts on this forum, I have steered clear of confrontation without incident.
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Friend of mine is sending me the Promised Land CD-ROM game. I look forward to its early 90s crappiness :lol
The game itself is pretty dated. But the Big Log area and all the snippets are cool. And if you havent seen the videos shot for PL, they are on there.
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This discussion prompted to me to give HitNF a listen, which I haven't done in years. I recalled not ever enjoying this album in the slightest, and man, did that opinion not change at all. I don't have a ton of physical CDs, probably much less than most everyone here, and this is easily the worst one in my collection.
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This discussion prompted to me to give HitNF a listen, which I haven't done in years. I recalled not ever enjoying this album in the slightest, and man, did that opinion not change at all. I don't have a ton of physical CDs, probably much less than most everyone here, and this is easily the worst one in my collection.
....and it was almost all DeGarmo's doing too. Ya, I actually got to the point where I genuinely enjoyed about 5 tunes...but that's 5 out of 14. That album is mostly crap. I honestly don't any of the albums after this are any better (except maybe Tribe) and I don't think they are any worse either (except for that Dedicated to Chaos abomination). Everything from HitNF forward is just kindof....there. A few enjoyable tracks, a handful of forgettable tracks, and some pieces of pure dreck.
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My tracklist for HITNF:
Sign Of The Times
Spool
Sadly, too short for a regular album. :biggrin:
My issue with that record isn't the production (which isn't that great in itself) or the change of direction, it's just that most of the songs just plod along and they become boring very fast. I can't really say that they are bad, but so very very mediocre.
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I rank HITNF as the 2nd worst QR album, so needless to say I'm not a fan.
Here's my ranking if anyone's curious
#1. Promised Land
#2. Operation: Mindcrime
#3. Operation: Mindcrime II (fite me)
#4. Empire
#5. Rage For Order
#6. Condition Human
#7. Tribe
#8. S/T 2013
#9. The Warning (fite me)
10. American Soldier
11. Q2K
12. Hear In The Now Frontier
12.5. Frequency Unknown (if it counts, which it doesn't)
13. Dedicated To Chaos
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I rank HITNF as the 2nd worst QR album, so needless to say I'm not a fan.
Here's my ranking if anyone's curious
#1. Promised Land
#2. Operation: Mindcrime
#3. Operation: Mindcrime II (fite me)
#4. Empire
#5. Rage For Order
#6. Condition Human
#7. Tribe
#8. S/T 2013
#9. The Warning (fite me)
10. American Soldier
11. Q2K
12. Hear In The Now Frontier
12.5. Frequency Unknown (if it counts, which it doesn't)
13. Dedicated To Chaos
I'm gonna fight you for having OM : 2 so high and The Warning so low. :angry: :biggrin:, but apart from that, no fighting needed. Would have put OM and Empire before PL though, but that's just me.
B.Lee
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I rank HITNF as the 2nd worst QR album, so needless to say I'm not a fan.
Here's my ranking if anyone's curious
#1. Promised Land
#2. Operation: Mindcrime
#3. Operation: Mindcrime II (fite me)
#4. Empire
#5. Rage For Order
#6. Condition Human
#7. Tribe
#8. S/T 2013
#9. The Warning (fite me)
10. American Soldier
11. Q2K
12. Hear In The Now Frontier
12.5. Frequency Unknown (if it counts, which it doesn't)
13. Dedicated To Chaos
I'm gonna fight you for having OM : 2 so high and The Warning so low. :angry: :biggrin:, but apart from that, no fighting needed. Would have put OM and Empire before PL though, but that's just me.
B.Lee
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT1N44dWsAEhwIS.jpg)
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Haven't done the ranking thing in a while:
Original Lineup:
Operation: Mindcrime
The Warning
Rage for Order
Empire
Promised Land
Tribe EP (rating just the tracks the original lineup did)
EP (only this low because it is an EP)
HITNF
Whole Band all-time:
Operation: Mindcrime
The Warning
Rage for Order
Empire
Promised Land
Queensryche (2013)
American Soldier
Condition Human
Operation: Mindcrime II
EP
Tribe (looking at it as a full album)
HITNF
Q2k
***********
*************
**************
Dedicated to Chaos
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Surprised with PL's placement this time around. Guess I'm in a more metal mood lately.
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Hmm...
Empire
Promised Land
Condition Human
Mindcrime
Queensryche (2013)
HITNF
Rage for Order
American Soldier
Warning
Mindcrime II
EP
Tribe
Q2K
Dedicated To Chaos
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I will never understand how you can have Condition Human above Mindcrime. I know, taste and all that. But dude, c'mon. Condition Human is a really good record, but seriously? And I won't even bother with you putting HITNF over Rage. I know where that debate goes. :lol
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If that bothers you, you're really gonna hate me after I listen to all the albums and probably put Promised Land under a lot of them. :lol
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1. Mindcrime
=2. Empire
=2. Rage For Order
=4. The Warning
=4. Promised Land
=4. Hear In The Now Frontier
=4. Tribe
8. Self Titled
9. Condition Human
10. Mindcrime II
11. Q2k
I don't own American Soldier (heard it via Spotify... boring as all hell) nor Dedicated To Chaos (heard it via, ahem, other means and it's utterly laughable) so I'm not ranking them. I don't regard Frequency Unknown as a QR album.
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If that bothers you, you're really gonna hate me after I listen to all the albums and probably put Promised Land under a lot of them. :lol
:lol
No, see, I can understand that with PL. But MINDCRIME?! Freaking Mindcrime? C'mon now. Any Ryche fan worth his or her salt should have that puppy at least in the top 3. :lol
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It has some good songs. But to me, it is an overall immature concept that I feel I have grown out of. So if I go strictly by how many songs I REALLY like, and how much I really like them, that is what my ranking reflects.
But my top 6 are VERY close, and there isn't really a dropoff until after that. And that is a fairly small dropoff. The next major dropoff is after #8.
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Top Tier Perfect albums
Mindcrime
Empire
Rage For Order
Promised Land
Very Solid but some weak moments
Tribe
The Warning
Hear In The Now Frontier
Q2k
A few very good tracks but overall not great
Mindcrime II
Frequency Unknown
American Soldier
Dedicated to Choas
Don't consider it QR
Self Titled
Condition Human
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Top Tier Perfect albums
Mindcrime
Empire
Rage For Order
Promised Land
Very Solid but some weak moments
Tribe
The Warning
Hear In The Now Frontier
Q2k
A few very good tracks but overall not great
Mindcrime II
Frequency Unknown
American Soldier
Dedicated to Choas
Don't consider it QR
Self Titled
Condition Human
I want to add
I think I am defiantly biased. I should have said I don't care to listen to them because they are not Geoff, but to be fair about it either all 3 of those albums should count or none of them should.
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What albums are you talking about?
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I want to add
I think I am defiantly biased. I should have said I don't care to listen to them because they are not Geoff, but to be fair about it either all 3 of those albums should count or none of them should.
Wilton/Jackson/Rockenfeld obtained the Queensryche name in the settlement of the lawsuit. So it's fair to say that the two albums they released with Todd ARE considered Queensryche albums, and Frequency Unknown (of which none of those three members performed on) is not.
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^Pretty much that. Except that they didn't "obtain" it. The lawsuit clarified that they had owned it. They never "lost" and then had to "obtain" it. It was just a question of whether Tate also had a right to use it.
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I personally do not consider Frequency Unknown to be a QR album, but if you're going to talk legal...at the time of release, both QR self-titled and Frequency Unknown were released by parties that were allowed legally to perform and work as Queensryche. So technically, all of it is Queensryche.
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Yes. Strictly speaking, from a purely legal point of view, that is correct. But I think it is fair to make the argument that Tate had unjustly usurped the name, and the court merely allowed the status quo until it could be sorted out, so it really isn't "Queensryche" from an equitable point of view. Or, to put it another way, Geoff Tate never really was Queensryche, and didn't have control of the Queensryche entity. But he had the right to use the name for a limited period of time. I view it kind of like this: If I worked at McDonald's, but then I quit and opened up a restaurant serving low-quality meatloaf sandwiches, and I used the official McDonald's name and logo on my place, it wouldn't really be McDonald's, and everyone would know that. Let's say McDonald's then sues me and says I have no right to use the name. But trial isn't until March of 2019, and a court says, "This won't ultimately be decided until it goes to trial next year. In the mean time, while we get it sorted out, Bosk can use the McDonald's name." I would be allowed to represent myself as McDonald's. But I'm really not. And, again, everybody knows that. People could just say, "well, there are two McDonald's right now." And, legally, they would be correct. But it's still not really the same thing.
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Yes. Strictly speaking, from a purely legal point of view, that is correct. But I think it is fair to make the argument that Tate had unjustly usurped the name, and the court merely allowed the status quo until it could be sorted out, so it really isn't "Queensryche" from an equitable point of view. Or, to put it another way, Geoff Tate never really was Queensryche, and didn't have control of the Queensryche entity. But he had the right to use the name for a limited period of time. I view it kind of like this: If I worked at McDonald's, but then I quit and opened up a restaurant serving low-quality some very very tasty meatloaf sandwiches and some that are really terrible, and I used the official McDonald's name and logo on my place, it wouldn't really be McDonald's, and everyone would know that. Let's say McDonald's then sues me and says I have no right to use the name. But trial isn't until March of 2019, and a court says, "This won't ultimately be decided until it goes to trial next year. In the mean time, while we get it sorted out, Bosk can use the McDonald's name." I would be allowed to represent myself as McDonald's. But I'm really not. And, again, everybody knows that. People could just say, "well, there are two McDonald's right now." And, legally, they would be correct. But it's still not really the same thing.
Slight correction needed to be made. :)
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Love the ryche. My rankings.
1. O:M
2. The Warning
3. Rage
4. EP
5.empire
6.PL
7. Q2k
8. Tribe
9. condition human
10. Queensryche
11. HITNF
12. O:M II
13. AS
14 DTC
Love 80s QR. Honestly the remastered EP and Warning (love the version of The Lady Wore Black) albums get the most plays for me. The LiveCrime movie was what really got me into QR though . The livecrime cd sounds horrible and is kinda worthless imo. Being from Madison Wi i always thought it was cool Livecrime was made here. Wonder why QR chose WI to make a LiveCrime instead of Seattle of a larger market?
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Being from Madison Wi i always thought it was cool Livecrime was made here. Wonder why QR chose WI to make a LiveCrime instead of Seattle of a larger market?
I am not sure if I have ever seen them comment on it, but I always assumed it was done in Wisconsin because of timing. They had been on tour, so they were well rehearsed, perhaps the company they used to record it was based in Chicago or up in Wisconsin, so logistical reasons overall. But all that is just me thinking out loud. But that's always what I believed.
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1. Promised Land
2. Rage for Order
3. Operation: Mindcrime
4. Empire
5. The Warning
6. EP
I only ranked the albums worth ranking.
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Every time I do this its a bit different, but...
1. Rage For Order
2. Operation Mindcrime
3. Promised Land
4. EP
5. Condition Human
6. The Warning
7. Empire
8. Queensryche
9. Tribe
10. Q2K/American Soldier/Hear in the Now Frontier
11. Dedicated to Chaos.
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Every time I do this its a bit different, but...
1. Rage For Order
2. Operation Mindcrime
3. Promised Land
4. EP
5. Condition Human
6. The Warning
7. Empire
8. Queensryche
9. Tribe
10. Q2K/American Soldier/Hear in the Now Frontier
11. Dedicated to Chaos.
Where's Mindcrime 2?
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Every time I do this its a bit different, but...
1. Rage For Order
2. Operation Mindcrime
3. Promised Land
4. EP
5. Condition Human
6. The Warning
7. Empire
8. Queensryche
9. Tribe
10. Q2K/American Soldier/Hear in the Now Frontier/OMC2
11. Dedicated to Chaos.
Where's Mindcrime 2?
FIX'd
EDIT - That group of albums is so overwhelmingly meh and overall bland, I sometimes can't tell them apart or remember which is which.
EDIT 2 - But to be fair, I could take the best of all those albums and probably make 1 pretty cool album. Heck, "Right Side Of My Mind" probably should elevate Q2K above the others on the merit of that one amazing track alone. Hard to believe a top 10 all time QR track came from such a boring album.
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I remember downright hating CH when I first heard it (I believe I had it 10th originally) because I thought it was generic radio-rock with no soul or identity. But honestly, the more I listen to it, the higher it seems to climb in my ranking. I think it might even be better than Empire right now, maybe even Mindcrime! :omg: :hefdaddy
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I remember downright hating CH when I first heard it (I believe I had it 10th originally) because I thought it was generic radio-rock with no soul or identity. But honestly, the more I listen to it, the higher it seems to climb in my ranking. I think it might even be better than Empire right now, maybe even Mindcrime! :omg: :hefdaddy
Now don't get silly. ;D
But yes, Condition Human is a very good record imo, not surpassing the classics but getting close. All the more shame on them that they don't feature it heaviliy in their live set.
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Rankings eh..
1. Promised Land
2. Empire
3. Mindcrime
4. Rage for Order
5. First album, whatever it was called..
-La Torre albums are solid, but quite forgettable. Rest are not worth mentioning.
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I remember downright hating CH when I first heard it (I believe I had it 10th originally) because I thought it was generic radio-rock with no soul or identity. But honestly, the more I listen to it, the higher it seems to climb in my ranking. I think it might even be better than Empire right now, maybe even Mindcrime! :omg: :hefdaddy
Now don't get silly. ;D
But yes, Condition Human is a very good record imo, not surpassing the classics but getting close. All the more shame on them that they don't feature it heaviliy in their live set.
Yeah, maybe more than Mindcrime is a bit ridiculous, but I'd probably rank it 4th at the moment (below Mindcrime 2 but above Empire). Honestly I'm surprised that they could make something so great so late in their careers, & it makes me even more excited for QR14 :woot:
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Rankings?
O:M
Promised Land
Empire
Rage for Order
Condition Human
The Warning
S/T 2013
S/T
HITNF
Haven’t heard the rest and have no interest in doing so. Those first four are extremely solid, though, and will always be there, possibly in different orders as time goes on.
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Heck, "Right Side Of My Mind" probably should elevate Q2K above the others on the merit of that one amazing track alone. Hard to believe a top 10 all time QR track came from such a boring album.
First song written for Q2k, came out of the initial jam session between Wilton and Gray.
Personally, I think the mix and some of the choices to tame down the vocals really hurt Q2k. I enjoyed the demos of Liquid Sky, Sacred Ground, and Breakdown Room (its initial title) a lot more. And when the debuted the latter two and One Life at the Seattle '99 fan club event, they had a lot more energy.
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I just have to say that, while I can still enjoy some of the music, my general response to Queensryche nowadays is mostly indifference. And the band really needs to recognize that that is the reaction of a significant portion of the fan base, and that that is precisely the reaction they have earned.
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I just have to say that, while I can still enjoy some of the music, my general response to Queensryche nowadays is mostly indifference. And the band really needs to recognize that that is the reaction of a significant portion of the fan base, and that that is precisely the reaction they have earned.
Sometimes this is me as well - especially between Tribe and when Geoff was kicked out. I followed the saga when he did get kicked out, and my interest was sparked for a while (though not renewed to what it once was). I enjoyed the two Todd albums and generally feel like I want them to do well. If they come to town and it works for me, I'll see them live. I just think they could have, and should, do things differently.
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I'm listening to Condition Human now, getting near the end. I've never heard anybody who sounds like Geoff Tate (except for Tate, obviously) and suddenly I hear Todd replicating him almost perfectly. Very bizarre, but cool. This is what should have come out instead of Promised Land. This is good. This is fun.
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It's what should have come out instead of Hear in the Now Frontier.
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I'm listening to Condition Human now, getting near the end. I've never heard anybody who sounds like Geoff Tate (except for Tate, obviously) and suddenly I hear Todd replicating him almost perfectly. Very bizarre, but cool. This is what should have come out instead of Promised Land. This is good. This is fun.
Speaking of Todd, I would have liked to hear a new Crimson Glory album with him as the singer. Too bad it didn't happen as Garden of Shadows was excellent.
B.Lee
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I'm listening to Condition Human now, getting near the end. I've never heard anybody who sounds like Geoff Tate (except for Tate, obviously) and suddenly I hear Todd replicating him almost perfectly.
Honestly, if I awoke from a coma that started in 1995, and had not known of the drama/changes, I would not have known it wasn't Tate singing.
Actually, I think my Rychecoma DID start in 1995. ;D
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It's what should have come out instead of Hear in the Now Frontier.
Or Promised Land. :rollin
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It's what should have come out instead of Hear in the Now Frontier.
Or Promised Land. :rollin
No. You may not care for it, but a lot of the fan base does. Whereas a much higher percentage did like HITNF.
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It's what should have come out instead of Hear in the Now Frontier.
Or Promised Land. :rollin
No. You may not care for it, but a lot of the fan base does. Whereas a much higher percentage did like HITNF.
I recognize that too :lol
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It's what should have come out instead of Hear in the Now Frontier.
Or Promised Land. :rollin
No. You may not care for it, but a lot of the fan base does. Whereas a much higher percentage did like HITNF.
Are you seriously claiming that more QR fans like HITNF than Promised Land? That's COMPLETE BS. Promised Land may have been a tad controversial to many of the bandwagon fans....but to A LOT of people, Promised Land is a top 3 QR album. NO ONE puts HITNF in the top 3......NO ONE.
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It's what should have come out instead of Hear in the Now Frontier.
Or Promised Land. :rollin
No. You may not care for it, but a lot of the fan base does. Whereas a much higher percentage did like HITNF.
Are you seriously claiming that more QR fans like HITNF than Promised Land? That's COMPLETE BS. Promised Land may have been a tad controversial to many of the bandwagon fans....but to A LOT of people, Promised Land is a top 3 QR album. NO ONE puts HITNF in the top 3......NO ONE.
I think they meant to say "didn't" :lol
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Well....that *would* make more sense...
:D
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It's what should have come out instead of Hear in the Now Frontier.
Or Promised Land. :rollin
No. You may not care for it, but a lot of the fan base does. Whereas a much higher percentage did like HITNF.
Are you seriously claiming that more QR fans like HITNF than Promised Land? That's COMPLETE BS. Promised Land may have been a tad controversial to many of the bandwagon fans....but to A LOT of people, Promised Land is a top 3 QR album. NO ONE puts HITNF in the top 3......NO ONE.
I think they meant to say "didn't" :lol
Yeah, sorry about that! It should have said didn't, but at least my typo led to more evidence from jammindude that Condition Human should indeed not have been released instead of PL. :)
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Fake news
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Operation Mindcrime II > Operation Mindcrime
discuss
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Operation Mindcrime II > Operation Mindcrime
discuss
Obvious troll is obvious.
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Operation Mindcrime II > Operation Mindcrime
discuss
no way
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Operation Mindcrime II > Operation Mindcrime
discuss
You're obviously wrong, end of discussion ;D
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Wrong subforum, the humor thread is in general discussion.
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Operation Mindcrime II > Operation Mindcrime
discuss
What are we discussing - how much booze you had last night that would have caused you to think something like that, much less post it?
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Operation Mindcrime II > Operation Mindcrime
discuss
Obvious troll is obvious.
Jason Slater, is that you? ;D
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Slater would never say something like that.
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Saw a Facebook post the other day from Parker saying he has started work at a local Harley Davidson dealership, "in-between tours." Perfect gig for him, given his Guitar Center sales/mgmt experience and love of riding. Rumor has it the other guys are doing similar things as well. The market is tough out there. For all the reasons we discussed already, Queensryche likely just is not getting the guarantees it used to.
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Wow. On a list of "things that don't bode well for the future of your band," I would think that "your guitarist taking a day job at a motorcycle dealership" ranks pretty high up there, somewhere along with "your drummer doing a tour with A7X."
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To be fair, a lot of guys, particularly those who are employees for hire, rather than owners of the band, do similar things these days. It's just a sign of the times (no pun intended) we live in, regarding the music industry. Parker probably expected Queensryche to do a lot better, and hitched his wagon to them. But at least now he's covering himself in case anything goes further south...
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Operation Mindcrime II > Operation Mindcrime
discuss
That’s probably the biggest load of bollocks I’ve heard on the internet, not just his site.
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I feel like I shouldn't jump immediately to thinking, "That's pretty sad" especially if he likes to do it as a job, but... that is kinda sad.
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Wow. On a list of "things that don't bode well for the future of your band," I would think that "your guitarist taking a day job at a motorcycle dealership" ranks pretty high up there, somewhere along with "your drummer doing a tour with A7X."
Too soon!
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it's pretty normal for musicians nowadays to have plenty of sidegigs. I know so many big names that also teach, fill in for sick people here and there, and have a few other bands on the side.
I don't get al these complaints about this activity being a failure somehow..
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I don't see any complaints.
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2 years ago I was talking to the guys in Haken and they all told me that they all had jobs on the side that they were hoping that they could get bigger to make music their full-time job and they toured exclusively the last year working on that goal.
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2 years ago I was talking to the guys in Haken
they were hoping that they could get bigger
:lol
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Um, Tim, they have. You remember the days of seeing DT at a Amusement Park to a 2000 seat venue. They are trending that way.
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Haken is trending up to an amusement park? That makes sense, it's clown music after all. :P
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Tim, you old, bitter man. Read up. They are to dude. You may not like them but you are a foooooooolllll! :P :P :P :-* :-* :-*
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it's pretty normal for musicians nowadays to have plenty of sidegigs. I know so many big names that also teach, fill in for sick people here and there, and have a few other bands on the side.
I don't get al these complaints about this activity being a failure somehow..
What complaints? It's completely normal in this day and age. I think I said that in my follow up...
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Tim, you old, bitter man. Read up. They are to dude. You may not like them but you are a foooooooolllll! :P :P :P :-* :-* :-*
(https://i.imgflip.com/2777hl.jpg)
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:rollin
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Queensryche isn't what they used to be and so it's really no surprise. When you don't draw a crowd big enough you have to look where the money comes in. And Parker may be more than a hired tour musician at this point, but I don't think he gets the same share as the founding members.
And I believe it's not only in this day and age, it has always been like that. A lot of musicians had to do side jobs or play in a couple of bands or teach or whatever to make a living.
But still I think QR would be better of if they had toured and toured and toured AND promoted the new material on the tour and not just play as a nostalgia act.
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Random thought of the day. If you don't count Frequency Unknown as a Queensryche album
because it doesn't exist, would that mean that both Queensryche & DT released their 12th studio album in 2013, both of which were self-titled, both of which had 9 songs, both of which were considerably shorter than the band's standard album length? :eek
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Queensryche isn't what they used to be and so it's really no surprise. When you don't draw a crowd big enough you have to look where the money comes in. And Parker may be more than a hired tour musician at this point, but I don't think he gets the same share as the founding members.
And I believe it's not only in this day and age, it has always been like that. A lot of musicians had to do side jobs or play in a couple of bands or teach or whatever to make a living.
But still I think QR would be better of if they had toured and toured and toured AND promoted the new material on the tour and not just play as a nostalgia act.
That is the true krux of the issue - they chose playing casinos and small festivals/state fairs over touring relentlessly. Other bands have taken numerous opening slots (Sabaton), sometimes within the same year, to slowly grow the fanbase over the course of several years and are now headlining in their own right. Queensryche could have done the same, but elected not to.
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And I believe it's not only in this day and age, it has always been like that. A lot of musicians had to do side jobs or play in a couple of bands or teach or whatever to make a living.
Yes, it has always been like that to one extent or another.
Record companies would (presumably still do...) stump up advances and help finance tours to get a band out there promoting themselves in the early part of their career, all of which was put on a running tab the artist would be expected to pay back in the event of success, but unless you did what Rush did and went from album-to-tour-to-album with nary a fortnight off band members would usually end up doing other work.
For example, Def Leppard's Joe Elliot ended up working on a building site between On Through The Night and High 'n' Dry (https://www.deflepparduk.com/2017newsnov96.html).
I vaguely remember the Dragonforce guys talking about being able to quit their day jobs with the associated success that came with their Guitar Hero exposure.
Anyway, I'd always assumed Parker would have a day job the entire time he's been in Queensryche. I wouldn't have thought this is a new thing...
Parker probably expected Queensryche to do a lot better, and hitched his wagon to them
Sorry, but that statement along with bringing this up in the first place makes it seem like you're having a not that surreptitious dig at them. Let's not try and gloss over Tate's behaviour at the time and pretend Parker's decision was only about the $.
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Tim, you old, bitter man. Read up. They are to dude. You may not like them but you are a foooooooolllll! :P :P :P :-* :-* :-*
(https://i.imgflip.com/2777hl.jpg)
:lol :lol
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:lol
I misspell and it becomes gold Jerry, gold!
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Parker probably expected Queensryche to do a lot better, and hitched his wagon to them
Sorry, but that statement along with bringing this up in the first place makes it seem like you're having a not that surreptitious dig at them. Let's not try and gloss over Tate's behaviour at the time and pretend Parker's decision was only about the $.
Who was glossing over anything? I think what Tate's behavior was, has been well stated and documented, has it not? How is me bringing up the fact Parker posted on Facebook he has a gig selling motorcycles, and me saying Parker probably expected QR to do better, a dig at Queensryche?
It is my OPINION that Parker "probably" (as quoted above) thought QR would do better than it has. Well, duh? Isn't that obvious? Every one of the band members probably feels that way.
Parker's decision? What, to continue with QR in 2012? Dude can't stand Tate, so he didn't want to go there (which I think everyone knows Tate is his ex-Father-in-law, and Parker doesn't want to be around him). But he did audition for In This Moment, and he either didn't get, or turned down the gig. So he hitched his wagon to Queensryche once Tate went off the deep end. Totally a smart move, as the financial prospects (back then) were brighter.
I think people such as yourself need to take things posted by someone at face value, instead of assuming (quite wrongly) that there is something underlying about what is being said. If I want to criticize Queensryche, I've never been shy of doing so.
Speaking of which:
Queensryche isn't what they used to be and so it's really no surprise. When you don't draw a crowd big enough you have to look where the money comes in. And Parker may be more than a hired tour musician at this point, but I don't think he gets the same share as the founding members.
And I believe it's not only in this day and age, it has always been like that. A lot of musicians had to do side jobs or play in a couple of bands or teach or whatever to make a living.
But still I think QR would be better of if they had toured and toured and toured AND promoted the new material on the tour and not just play as a nostalgia act.
That is the true krux of the issue - they chose playing casinos and small festivals/state fairs over touring relentlessly. Other bands have taken numerous opening slots (Sabaton), sometimes within the same year, to slowly grow the fanbase over the course of several years and are now headlining in their own right. Queensryche could have done the same, but elected not to.
Exactly. For the millionth time, Queensryche fucked things up so badly once they dropped the self-titled record in 2013. There was so much positive buzz, a great chart debut, and what did they do? Catered to the hair metal contingent, doing fly-ins instead of putting in the hard work and rebuilding by getting on a bus and playing 130 dates. That was what they needed to do, and they could have done it.
They had a choice -- they could do the fly-in route for most of their shows, pocketing cash, with less strain on them, traveling-wise, or the booking agent could get them on a bus and they could headline clubs. They took the former, because it was more money and less work. And it was mentioned to them, more than once (and not just by me), that while it would work in the short term, it was an error in terms of rebuilding their brand long term. They did it anyway.
Now, five years after that conversation, it is pretty obvious what went down.
Add to that the fact they play 80-minute headline shows consisting of barely any of their material with Todd, they firmly embraced being a nostalgia band. Again, great for casino gigs. Not good for re-establishing yourself in front of a metal audience (which was originally what they said they wanted to do). It is not hard to play a 90-minute gig, featuring 30-40 minutes of new material.
I've heard all the arguments from La Torre about how "hard" it is to pick songs, and the makeup of crowds, etc....whatever. That's a fucking lame excuse, and everyone knows it. If you're a relevant band, you go out and play your new material. THEY chose to play to casino crowds, playing up the hair band portion of their fan base. THEY chose to play shorter sets (bare minimum). THEY chose to not play their current songs.
If bands such as Fates Warning and Iced Earth can go out there and support their new material, so could have Queensryche. It was a decision not to, based on whatever ridiculous notions they had in their heads. All they did was screw themselves. Both by not getting in a bus and doing the grassroots touring that was needed, and by their choice of what to play. It really is a shame, because they bet on the nostalgia aspect revitalizing the band, and they were wrong.
In late 2013/all of 2014, they could have: Played five songs from the self-titled, then 10 or 11 back catalog hits in a 90-minute set.
In 2016, they could have: Played five songs from Condition Human, three songs from self-titled, and eight songs from the back catalog hits in a 90-minute set.
That's really not hard. AT ALL.
So hey, Cruithne, you want a dig, there's the dig. The fucked themselves by becoming a nostalgia act playing casinos and trying to cash in on hits, instead of actually putting in the touring work and embracing their new material. No "surreptitious digs" whatsoever on my end. Just a direct, full-on criticism of the asinine moves they've made since 2013.
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by becoming a nostalgia act playing casinos and trying to cash in on hits, instead of actually putting in the touring work and embracing their new material.
Aside from his Operation Mindcrime album, Tate does at least mix up the set lists quite a bit tour to tour. His acoustic tour literally covered every era.
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I saw Toto in a casino when they toured through here once :hat
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But in addition to that Toto is on tour every year it seems. And they mix up their setlist with new tunes and old classics and the odd song not played for a long time.
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True. But I'm not sure that is done out of any actual self-awareness or fan awareness as much as it is simply him scraping through the discography for songs he can somewhat sing.
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I think Tate partially realized that playing stuff from the Tateryche era is not going to feed him in the long run, especially given the initial ecstatic reaction by many fans when Rising Wesr and Todd fronted QR went back to play the metal of the earlier records.
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I think Tate partially realized that playing stuff from the Tateryche era is not going to feed him in the long run, especially given the initial ecstatic reaction by many fans when Rising Wesr and Todd fronted QR went back to play the metal of the earlier records.
The setlist for the acoustic tour was really interesting. He played stuff not often (or never) played by Queensryche, including Chasing Blue Sky, Blood, Out of Mind, etc. He played the hits (re-arranged), but then mixed in a lot of stuff that hardcore old school QR fans would find cool to listen to. It was a nice balance. Honestly, I personally had a good time, and his vocals were pretty good that night overall. I am glad I went.
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I think Tate partially realized that playing stuff from the Tateryche era is not going to feed him in the long run, especially given the initial ecstatic reaction by many fans when Rising Wesr and Todd fronted QR went back to play the metal of the earlier records.
The setlist for the acoustic tour was really interesting. He played stuff not often (or never) played by Queensryche, including Chasing Blue Sky, Blood, Out of Mind, etc. He played the hits (re-arranged), but then mixed in a lot of stuff that hardcore old school QR fans would find cool to listen to. It was a nice balance. Honestly, I personally had a good time, and his vocals were pretty good that night overall. I am glad I went.
I second this. If he had been doing the Mindcrime bore when he came around here, I wouldn't have bothered to go. But Tate offered something different and unique.
Granted, although I did not buy a bottle of wine just to get a meet & greet, I still enjoyed it as well :corn
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https://eddietrunk.com/geoff-tate-announces-operation-mindcrime-30th-anniversary-u-s-tour-dates/
I think we better catch this while we can. He hasn't played this in it's entirely since the 25th anniversary, and while I wouldn't rule out a 31st anniversary run next year, the 35th anniversary is five long, excruciating years from now. See it now or risk missing out!
:)
Seriously, though, what happened to his band? He had some pretty big name players with him and now it's a group of lesser known players. I know he said that "Operation:Mindcrime" the band was purposefully for the trilogy of albums only, but still. This is being billed as "Operation:Mindcrime".
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https://eddietrunk.com/geoff-tate-announces-operation-mindcrime-30th-anniversary-u-s-tour-dates/
I think we better catch this while we can. He hasn't played this in it's entirely since the 25th anniversary, and while I wouldn't rule out a 31st anniversary run next year,
:lol
No doubt!
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In all seriousness, I hear he has been really working on his vocal chops to get in shape for this, and only has to have the band tune down 7 1/2 steps this time.
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He should just take a stab at it.
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In all seriousness, I hear he has been really working on his vocal chops to get in shape for this, and only has to have the band tune down 7 1/2 steps this time.
:rollin
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Some of those venues are TINY. Looking at a few of the California ones...250 capacity in some. Really a shame that the 30th anniversary of such a great album (personally, my favorite of all-time) is being performed like this.
The Tate solo acoustic show I saw a year ago...the day before the show, they were giving away tickets. Only about 25-30 people in attendance. It ramped up a bit when he sang Lucidity, probably swelled to about 65...and then as soon as he stopped that song, it went back down. By the end, there were maybe 15-20 people left in the concert area (the place I saw him was a country bar, that had previously been a hamburger joint -- Tate played in what was once the dining area of the restaurant -- the bar and concert area are separated by a wall).
Again, just a bummer. And Queensryche, while they are playing slightly bigger places, are now relegated to opening for bands that will have them, and then doing casino gigs. Just...sad. All the way around. For everyone involved.
Remember when they were one of the biggest hard rock acts on the planet? 25 years ago, they were headlining arenas at the end of the Empire tour, noted for their class, heady music and lyrics, and thoughtful approach to metal.
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Yeah, this is really sad, but then again, they have nobody but themselves to blame. And while Tate was a big part of both the success and the downfall, the rest of the band has made countless serious mistakes also.
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So in one month or so we'll finally know if Scott Rockenfield shows up with Tate? (I don't think we're gonna know what's the deal with him from Queensryche anytime soon anyway)
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Yeah, this is really sad, but then again, they have nobody but themselves to blame. And while Tate was a big part of both the success and the downfall, the rest of the band has made countless serious mistakes also.
Yeah, they did for sure. They should have put a stop to Tateryche earlier. And while a lot of people blame Chris for pushing toward the alternative with Hear in the Now Frontier, I think folks quickly forget that EMI going belly up is what sank that record, not the direction (despite it being bloated somewhat). There are some songs that really hold up on that record today. Chris isn't blameless, of course, but I think HITNF was the Empire for 1997, and may of well could have been very successful had EMI not folded in spring 1997. The singles were in heavy radio rotation and doing well.
But after that...
So in one month or so we'll finally know if Scott Rockenfield shows up with Tate? (I don't think we're gonna know what's the deal with him from Queensryche anytime soon anyway)
They already announced the drummer, I believe. I forget his name, but hadn't heard of him before. So it isn't Scott. Strange. My guess is, while his absence surely isn't about parental leave, perhaps his divorce necessitates him staying off the road. And surely, with the places Tate is playing, Scott knows he's not going to make any money touring with Tate. It still doesn't explain why Todd did the drums for the next QR record instead of Scott (which La Torre all but admitted in his last interview without saying it). So something funky is going on for sure.
I still believe Scott will work with Geoff. If not on the road, perhaps on Geoff's next album...whether that's a solo album or them reuniting with Jackson and Wilton. It's inevitable, in my opinion. They can make more money together than they can apart. They know it. And money drives them. It won't be much, but would be more than they are all making now.
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Honestly, if they re-united with Tate, I doubt I would go see them.
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I'd guess they'd lose the respect of a lot of people if they went back to Tate.
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For sure they would. But they would also gain some fans back, at least in the short term. I wouldn't be surprised if all parties concerned decided that any loss of respect would still be "worth it."
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I'd guess they'd lose the respect of a lot of people if they went back to Tate.
People still respect Queensryche?
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Seriously, though, what happened to his band? He had some pretty big name players with him and now it's a group of lesser known players. I know he said that "Operation:Mindcrime" the band was purposefully for the trilogy of albums only, but still. This is being billed as "Operation:Mindcrime".
I was wondering the same thing. He made a big deal about his band at first, and now it's just a bunch of random people from around the world?
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Well, he tried playing up the band. But I wouldn't say that any of them actually were "big name players." I mean, I guess I'll give him Rudy Sarzo. But aside from Rudy, none of those guys is what I would consider a "big name." I think they were just the best he could get.
He definitely did have some big name players contribute on the first album, but those were only session players who provided guest guitar solos and such. His touring band were never big name guys.
I am assuming that the reason they jumped ship is that they couldn't afford to tour around and not make any money.
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Scott doesn't even want to tour with the real band for whatever reasons, will use the recent addition to his family as the going reason (though I'm sure the divorce legalities, and who knows what else may have some consequence as well). He sure as hell isn't going to tour with Geoff playing with the kids from his daughter's band and whoever else is in the lineup this month playing garages and small bars with anywhere from a hundred to a few hundred people making less than he does touring with Queensryche, which coincidentally isn't mere peanuts, cause a lot of those fly in casino dates pay pretty good guaranteed cash.
To me, the guys getting back with Tate would be a stupid ridiculous thing to do and would not command much more in the way of cash, however the potential down side of reemerging conflicts and personality issues would be immense and almost guaranteed in due time, especially over musical direction and management issues etc. The only time it would make sense for all parties involved to even think about doing that would be for an eventual farewell tour. That might, MIGHT, bring a decent payday, and they wouldn't have to work together in the studio for a new album.
Beyond that, they are better off staying the course. If the next album is even in the ballpark, quality wise, as the first two albums with Todd. Why mess with a good thing. Every review I've seen of the bands live shows have been extremely positive for damn near the last five years running. Tate's shows, not so much. Why go there?
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Scott doesn't even want to tour with the real band for whatever reasons, will use the recent addition to his family as the going reason (though I'm sure the divorce legalities, and who knows what else may have some consequence as well). He sure as hell isn't going to tour with Geoff playing with the kids from his daughter's band and whoever else is in the lineup this month playing garages and small bars with anywhere from a hundred to a few hundred people making less than he does touring with Queensryche, which coincidentally isn't mere peanuts, cause a lot of those fly in casino dates pay pretty good guaranteed cash.
To me, the guys getting back with Tate would be a stupid ridiculous thing to do and would not command much more in the way of cash, however the potential down side of reemerging conflicts and personality issues would be immense and almost guaranteed in due time, especially over musical direction and management issues etc. The only time it would make sense for all parties involved to even think about doing that would be for an eventual farewell tour. That might, MIGHT, bring a decent payday, and they wouldn't have to work together in the studio for a new album.
Beyond that, they are better off staying the course. If the next album is even in the ballpark, quality wise, as the first two albums with Todd. Why mess with a good thing. Every review I've seen of the bands live shows have been extremely positive for damn near the last five years running. Tate's shows, not so much. Why go there?
NAILED IT
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The one thing being ignored is the motivation of the band members. They are very driven by money. Neither side is making much of it, as was said earlier. Their billings are getting smaller and more pathetic with each passing month. Tate is playing 250 seat bars, QR can't even do a proper headline tour, because they know they'd be in that 250-750 capacity range, and that will likely not even break even. (Remember, their last headline stint was a co-headline with Armored Saint, and a ton of the shows were on Groupon the last month because of low sales -- so promoters aren't interested.)
Would Tate plus the rest of old Queensryche (minus DeGarmo) do better? They absolutely would, at least, as was said, in the short term. The "reunion" story, even if just four of the guys, would land a decent pay day. But IMO, not enough to really give QR any staying power outside of a couple of years. But, money is money. Those four guys are driven by it, particularly Scott and Geoff (history shows that for sure). That's why I think it will happen eventually - they want as big a pay day as they can get, and that isn't going to happen for either side the way things are currently structured.
I think any rationale fan observing objectively would agree that the music itself is far superior from TLT-fronted Queensryche, and the live performance, in comparison to Tate. And I fully expect whatever new album QR releases to be much better than anything Tate has released in the last couple of years. But them (Tate and QR) getting back together isn't about art -- it'd be about making enough cash. Plain and simple.
It isn't about "losing face," or any of that. They don't care (Wilton might a little, but he'd cave if everyone else does). It's about cash, plain and simple. And when things get desperate enough, and the time is coming, that reunion of Tate-Rockenfield-Jackson-Wilton will most assuredly happen. And my guess is, it will happen at some point between now and 2020. Even if its to just play Empire in its entirety (because honestly, playing that and Mindcrime are the only possible interest point promoters would have).
But the whole "don't mess up a good thing" viewpoint, while I fully agree with that in a vacuum, ignores the reality of the situation and the people involved. It's about making the most money possible. Sad, but true.
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Would Tate plus the rest of old Queensryche (minus DeGarmo) do better? They absolutely would, at least, as was said, in the short term. The "reunion" story, even if just four of the guys, would land a decent pay day.
Especially if they would do something special and out of the ordinary, like playing in its entirety Operation:Mindcr...... uh well, nevermind.
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Would Tate plus the rest of old Queensryche (minus DeGarmo) do better? They absolutely would, at least, as was said, in the short term. The "reunion" story, even if just four of the guys, would land a decent pay day.
Especially if they would do something special and out of the ordinary, like playing in its entirety Operation:Mindcr...... uh well, nevermind.
:lol
Yeah, I think that has sailed...mostly. If they reunited (the four of them) and re-did a version of the Building Empires tour, perhaps rotating playing Mindcrime and Empire in-full, I think promoters would be into it. They aren't going to be into some new studio album from Tate alone, or even a new studio album from current QR. It just doesn't provide enough interest. Again, the last "tour" from QR showed that. And hell, Tate couldn't even tour on his last Operation: Mindcrime record. No promoter was interested in it. It's only now that he's playing the album that he was able to get a tour booked...playing tiny theaters, bars, etc. And Tate's current tour that is about to start will probably just break even...even with nobodies playing all the instruments.
Honestly, it's all very sad.
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Seems like you're right and it's all about the money and probably was for a long time. But it's all about the money without putting much effort in it, imo.
As I said before (probably a million times), the "new" QR should have accepted that they don't have the name and draw they used to have. But they have the music and the singer to rekindle the flames, so tour and tour and tour and tour and put out a quality album once in a while. Sure they will never reach the succes of the Mindcrime/Empire times again. But with a dedicated following they could probably make a decent living. But that would mean hard work and starting from scratch.
Reunite with Tate and play Mindcrime to death is definitely less effort, but will not work in the long run. And I'm not sure if they don't overestimate the attraction of a reunion, especially if CdG isn't on board.
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The one thing being ignored is the motivation of the band members. They are very driven by money. Neither side is making much of it, as was said earlier.
...
But the whole "don't mess up a good thing" viewpoint, while I fully agree with that in a vacuum, ignores the reality of the situation and the people involved. It's about making the most money possible. Sad, but true.
Yeah, this is a really good point. NJFF makes some excellent points as well. But while all of that is true from the fan perspective, I think history has in fact shown us that the band will most likely take the easiest path to short-term financial gains. I obviously don't have a window inside the band to know what they are thinking, so I'm not going to take a hard position and say what they WILL or WILL NOT do. But based on what we actually KNOW from the past and present, while I hate the idea of a reunion, I too think it is more likely than not.
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Seems like you're right and it's all about the money and probably was for a long time. But it's all about the money without putting much effort in it, imo.
As I said before (probably a million times), the "new" QR should have accepted that they don't have the name and draw they used to have. But they have the music and the singer to rekindle the flames, so tour and tour and tour and tour and put out a quality album once in a while. Sure they will never reach the succes of the Mindcrime/Empire times again. But with a dedicated following they could probably make a decent living. But that would mean hard work and starting from scratch.
Reunite with Tate and play Mindcrime to death is definitely less effort, but will not work in the long run. And I'm not sure if they don't overestimate the attraction of a reunion, especially if CdG isn't on board.
Right. But IMO, the band isn't thinking about, nor are they interested in the "long run." Maybe Parker was, and Todd, but the rest of them -- not a chance. I said this before, but they had a choice when they fired Tate and brought on Todd. They could try and move forward old school, relying on new music, getting on a bus, and slugging it out on the road, or they could do fly-in dates for bigger pay days, and squeeze in some headline runs as they could. To a man, they opted for the easier travel and bigger paydays...even when they knew it was the short-term approach. All they have to blame is themselves. And then they hurt themselves some more by not really playing their TLT-era material -- they still don't. They play a greatest hits setlist, throwing in one TLT-era song. Fly in, fly out, no rehearsal, no nothing. Least effort as possible for a casino pay day and free overnight stay.
So while you are 100 percent correct reuniting with Tate won't work in the long run, I don't think they care, as long as they can bump up their income for a short while. Let's face it, they are quickly approaching retirement age.
As for CDG -- I am sure all sides have contacted him. Whether he'd be a part of it, IMO it will wholly depend on the level of professionalism, motivation, and finality. He's not going to jump in again and get burned like he did on Tribe.
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How did he get burned with Tribe? I wasn't impressed with that album and didn't pay a lot of attention to what might have been going on behind the scenes. I do remember people thinking they were going to see him on the tour with DT, even though I never had that impression myself.
Add me to the list of those who don't want a reunion. If Queensryche can get 250-750 people on a full headline tour, they can do more than just break even. Not saying they're going to be rolling in dough, but there are bands where 250 is the highest attendance they get, and they come from overseas in some cases, and they break even. QR would/could get a buy on from an opening band, are based in the US, and would have bigger crowds than a lot of bands can hope for.
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How did he get burned with Tribe? I wasn't impressed with that album and didn't pay a lot of attention to what might have been going on behind the scenes. I do remember people thinking they were going to see him on the tour with DT, even though I never had that impression myself.
Very long story short -- Chris rejoined the band to finish writing and recording Tribe in fall 2002. They booked a date in Anchorage, Alaska for New Year's Eve that was supposed to be a bit of a "soft launch" of the reunion. During the recording sessions, allegedly, like on past albums, Chris was beginning to work with Tate on vocals, experimenting with different approaches to find the best delivery for the songs. Tate, however, had called the shots on his own vocals since Chris had left in 1997, and Susan Tate fanned the flames a bit, allegedly pushing Geoff to strong arm DeGarmo into letting Tate do what he wanted, and tell him that Queensr˙che now operated differently.
That attitude supposedly soured Chris, who packed up his gear and left the studio, and Queensr˙che once again. Mike stone, who Tate had been working with a bit that year prior to DeGarmo, came on to play the gig. They smoothed things out with Chris in early 2003 again, and delayed the album the first time, and it was announced DeGarmo would tour that summer in support of the record. But things flared up again, as allegedly it became a power struggle, and DeGarmo simply up and left. They delayed the release of Tribe twice more, as they attempted to finish it without Chris, and get his permission to use his songs and performances. Stone then came on to help finish it, and tour with the band, and stayed with them through 2008.
Simply put, the Tates wanted to proceed the way they wanted to, and DeGarmo had notions of a more long term approach (again, don't take as gospel, this stuff is pieced together from info learned over the years). The rest of the band did what they always did and buried their heads in the sand, and Chris walked away from it all.
He tried again in late 2006/early 2007, when they finally completed "Justified," a song meant for Tribe, but not finished before Chris left, but similar issues arose again, particularly after QR was successful with Mindcrime II. So Chris walked away again.
Add me to the list of those who don't want a reunion. If Queensryche can get 250-750 people on a full headline tour, they can do more than just break even. Not saying they're going to be rolling in dough, but there are bands where 250 is the highest attendance they get, and they come from overseas in some cases, and they break even. QR would/could get a buy on from an opening band, are based in the US, and would have bigger crowds than a lot of bands can hope for.
I am not in the music industry, but I have quite a few friends who are. You're mistaken. The guarantees per show promoters are offering are lower than ever -- even for bands more respected than QR. Trust me on that. That's why you're seeing a lot more co-headline tours that are shorter. Or solo headline runs of a month. The money just isn't there. Because so many acts or touring, promoters lowball the guarantees, because they know they can get another act to fill a night. No, Queensryche cannot do more than break even on their own headline trek of clubs. That's why they aren't doing it. That's why they have elected to do all these casino fly-ins and festivals.
It isn't about building their brand or any of that nonsense. It is about making the most money they can, as quickly as they can. It sucks, but that's honestly what it is all about.
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I will modify the above slightly and just say that, based on my understanding of the numbers on similar tours (and I do NOT know the specifics of Queensryche, so I am just going off my broader understanding) is that they likely WOULD do better than simply breaking even and would make a profit. It's just that the profit would be so small that it doesn't make a huge difference, and it is easy to say "not worth it." I mean, if they come out in the black, but the profit is about half or 3/4 what they would make working a day job, why go on the road in the first place?
Personally, I think what they SHOULD HAVE done is a combo: Slug it out on tour, doing clubs and small theaters. AND mix that in with the more profitable fly-in gigs. AND promote the new material ALONG WITH the classic nostalgia stuff. Yes, that would take effort and work, and would mean they would be away from home for long stretches. But it would generate at least a bit more demand that would keep them relevant long-term.
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Well, he tried playing up the band. But I wouldn't say that any of them actually were "big name players." I mean, I guess I'll give him Rudy Sarzo. But aside from Rudy, none of those guys is what I would consider a "big name." I think they were just the best he could get.
He definitely did have some big name players contribute on the first album, but those were only session players who provided guest guitar solos and such. His touring band were never big name guys.
I am assuming that the reason they jumped ship is that they couldn't afford to tour around and not make any money.
Is the demand for Randy "Random Damage" Gane so great that he had better options (though to be fair, I understand he's had some health issues)?
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I will modify the above slightly and just say that, based on my understanding of the numbers on similar tours (and I do NOT know the specifics of Queensryche, so I am just going off my broader understanding) is that they likely WOULD do better than simply breaking even and would make a profit. It's just that the profit would be so small that it doesn't make a huge difference, and it is easy to say "not worth it." I mean, if they come out in the black, but the profit is about half or 3/4 what they would make working a day job, why go on the road in the first place?
The one thing you are forgetting in that example is that they still are paying Tate money. Not sure how widely known that is, but yeah, they aren't done paying him. So, no, QR would not be doing better than breaking even. Again, it is all financially driven. headline tours of clubs by them, given how much they make, do not make ends meet. The fly-ins, casino dates, and shorter runs are more effective financially for them.
Personally, I think what they SHOULD HAVE done is a combo: Slug it out on tour, doing clubs and small theaters. AND mix that in with the more profitable fly-in gigs. AND promote the new material ALONG WITH the classic nostalgia stuff. Yes, that would take effort and work, and would mean they would be away from home for long stretches. But it would generate at least a bit more demand that would keep them relevant long-term.
Agreed fully. But the other side of the coin is, that would entail them being on the road most of every year. And not everyone in Queensryche (particularly their MIA drummer) was enamored with that. They are 50s going on 60. Not 20. So, I sorta get that. But generally, it's all on them. They made some choices, and those choices, at least IMO, weren't necessarily the wisest ones.
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I will modify the above slightly and just say that, based on my understanding of the numbers on similar tours (and I do NOT know the specifics of Queensryche, so I am just going off my broader understanding) is that they likely WOULD do better than simply breaking even and would make a profit. It's just that the profit would be so small that it doesn't make a huge difference, and it is easy to say "not worth it." I mean, if they come out in the black, but the profit is about half or 3/4 what they would make working a day job, why go on the road in the first place?
The one thing you are forgetting in that example is that they still are paying Tate money. Not sure how widely known that is, but yeah, they aren't done paying him. So, no, QR would not be doing better than breaking even. Again, it is all financially driven. headline tours of clubs by them, given how much they make, do not make ends meet. The fly-ins, casino dates, and shorter runs are more effective financially for them.
Well, okay, I'll give you that. But we are sort of talking about two different things now. I have no idea what their overall expenses are, and whether their collective expenses make ANYTHING profitable in terms of their overall financial ledger at this point. I'm just talking about whether a tour, in and of itself, when taking into account tour-related expenses, is profitable. Whether it is profitable enough to make ends meet is a different issue. I'm just saying that I would be surprised if the tour was merely breaking even. I think it is making money. Just not enough to make ends meet.
Personally, I think what they SHOULD HAVE done is a combo: Slug it out on tour, doing clubs and small theaters. AND mix that in with the more profitable fly-in gigs. AND promote the new material ALONG WITH the classic nostalgia stuff. Yes, that would take effort and work, and would mean they would be away from home for long stretches. But it would generate at least a bit more demand that would keep them relevant long-term.
Agreed fully. But the other side of the coin is, that would entail them being on the road most of every year. And not everyone in Queensryche (particularly their MIA drummer) was enamored with that. They are 50s going on 60. Not 20. So, I sorta get that. But generally, it's all on them. They made some choices, and those choices, at least IMO, weren't necessarily the wisest ones.
Yeah. I don't think we disagree.
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Man, what a mess!
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Man, what a mess!
Yeah, I'll second that.
So this 2017 divorce, is scott's new child from that marriage or someone new? And wow, I would find in tough to have brand new baby in my 50's
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I've been reading this thread for a long time as well as the great discography thread by Samsara and it seems to me that QR just made notoriously bad choices throughout their career, that was their biggest weakness.
It also comes off that they seemed pretty indifferent when success was at their door. I'm probably 100% wrong but this is just how it seemed to me.
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Add me to the list of those who don't want a reunion. If Queensryche can get 250-750 people on a full headline tour, they can do more than just break even. Not saying they're going to be rolling in dough, but there are bands where 250 is the highest attendance they get, and they come from overseas in some cases, and they break even. QR would/could get a buy on from an opening band, are based in the US, and would have bigger crowds than a lot of bands can hope for.
I am not in the music industry, but I have quite a few friends who are. You're mistaken. The guarantees per show promoters are offering are lower than ever -- even for bands more respected than QR. Trust me on that.
Your explanation about them still having to pay Tate helps to clear this up. I know a couple guys in smaller bands who have said they make money from touring, so it didn't make sense that QR couldn't with larger audiences. But it makes sense that there are other issues at play.
Thanks for the info about Chris and Tribe. I never realized that he had intended to rejoin the band - I always thought he was just involved in writing a few songs and that was going to be it. And that probably is how they eventually tried to spin it.
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This thread was started in 2009 by AndyDT.
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Man, what a mess!
Yeah, I'll second that.
So this 2017 divorce, is scott's new child from that marriage or someone new? And wow, I would find in tough to have brand new baby in my 50's
I believe it's with someone other than his ex wife. I can completely understand wanting time off to be with your baby. I'm sure Scott missed out on time with his older kids and has no desire to be away for too long now. But it really pisses me off to hear this parental leave crap thrown around for over a year. There are so many dads, including myself, that are up all night with our babies and then drag ourselves to work on a few hours sleep each night. He could easily manage being away for 24-48 hours when the band only plays a few shows here and there. At most, they play 3 days in a row, but it's usually one or two shows per week, or even one or two shows PER MONTH. I find it to be a total insult to working dads when the band just says "oh he's taking parental leave." I got 2 weeks of vacation time when my son was born and then I was back at work.
I really think Samsara is right on the money in that he's trying to keep his income minimal for divorce proceedings/alimony purposes. He can't come out and say it, so it's just "parental leave." But that then becomes insulting to dads who bust their ass 24 hours a day between family and work, and this guy can't be bothered to show up for his fans on the weekends.
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I find it to be a total insult to working dads when the band just says "oh he's taking parental leave." I got 2 weeks of vacation time when my son was born and then I was back at work.
How so? The length of your paid leave is no fault of Scott's...
It's interesting if Todd did indeed record the drums himself. Or if possible, Scott recorded them from his home studio (if he has one)?
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Man, what a mess!
Yeah, I'll second that.
So this 2017 divorce, is scott's new child from that marriage or someone new? And wow, I would find in tough to have brand new baby in my 50's
I believe it's with someone other than his ex wife. I can completely understand wanting time off to be with your baby. I'm sure Scott missed out on time with his older kids and has no desire to be away for too long now. But it really pisses me off to hear this parental leave crap thrown around for over a year. There are so many dads, including myself, that are up all night with our babies and then drag ourselves to work on a few hours sleep each night. He could easily manage being away for 24-48 hours when the band only plays a few shows here and there. At most, they play 3 days in a row, but it's usually one or two shows per week, or even one or two shows PER MONTH. I find it to be a total insult to working dads when the band just says "oh he's taking parental leave." I got 2 weeks of vacation time when my son was born and then I was back at work.
I really think Samsara is right on the money in that he's trying to keep his income minimal for divorce proceedings/alimony purposes. He can't come out and say it, so it's just "parental leave." But that then becomes insulting to dads who bust their ass 24 hours a day between family and work, and this guy can't be bothered to show up for his fans on the weekends.
You got two weeks off? ;). :)
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I find it to be a total insult to working dads when the band just says "oh he's taking parental leave." I got 2 weeks of vacation time when my son was born and then I was back at work.
How so? The length of your paid leave is no fault of Scott's...
It's interesting if Todd did indeed record the drums himself. Or if possible, Scott recorded them from his home studio (if he has one)?
It's great that he has a career that allows him to do that. I just find it insulting, knowing what I do for my kids and my job, putting in hours upon hours of extra work on top of sleepless nights to juggle both, while this guy can't even show up two nights a month to work.
If I were in his shoes, I'd find it easy to make things work, which is why I don't buy the parental leave excuse anymore.
And to clarify, I used two weeks vacation time.
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To be fair....you do not know his entire situation. Seriously. They guy could have a lot of irons in the fire, and if he feels like he can't do everything....along with being a father....on top of being the drummer of QR full time, then that's his business. Unless any of us know him personally, or are following around with a camera 24/7, then we don't know what his 24 hour day is like.
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That is a fair assessment, but I have always doubted the paternity leave thing, just based on how I feel. If he wanted to, he could make things work. I certainly do in my life. To me, he obviously doesnt want to make things work. Samsara has stated that he has long wanted to be off od the road. This makes for a nice excuse to get off the road. Just stop jerking the fans around.
While he has been on leave, the band has been recording a record. He has been rumored to be producing another band, possibly out of town. Things just don't add up for me. I know what I sacrifice to balance my career and family, and he certainly has sacrificed a lot with his older kids. So I get wanting to be home now. But come out and say it, rather than hiding behind paternity leave. "I'm done touring, but I will remain in the band and will handle such and such."
It has worked out well for Nightwish by being honest and up front about Jukka. He still works for the band internally. Scott could do the same. Instead he hides behind his kid.
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There may well be something else going on here that we don't know about. I can easily see that. But what if it is that simple? He doesn't want to tour or record now because he wants to be with his kid. But maybe he does want to tour in the future. Or maybe he isn't sure yet. If that's true, I don't see it as an insult to people who have to make more sacrifices. He's just lucky to be in a better position as far as that goes.
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Now, for a change... something that came back to me after many years.
I'll be the first one to preface that I know this might be as well a lot of speculative nonsense, since I am not-young enough to have lived in the pre-internet era when you heard music through second-hand cassette tapes and the news were travelling also second or third-fourth hand, so it might be as well something someone entirely made up or greatly misunderstood or whatever.
Having said that... I was told that the mystery about Sister Mary was explored more or less secretly during the albums following Operation Mindcrime, and that the band was leaving clues in the albums. "Mother Mary in control" from Damaged comes to mind as a reference to the character. Was there any true to this, or it's simply someone made up and whoever started this rumour had no clue what he was talking about?
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Now, for a change... something that came back to me after many years.
I'll be the first one to preface that I know this might be as well a lot of speculative nonsense, since I am not-young enough to have lived in the pre-internet era when you heard music through second-hand cassette tapes and the news were travelling also second or third-fourth hand, so it might be as well something someone entirely made up or greatly misunderstood or whatever.
Having said that... I was told that the mystery about Sister Mary was explored more or less secretly during the albums following Operation Mindcrime, and that the band was leaving clues in the albums. "Mother Mary in control" from Damaged comes to mind as a reference to the character. Was there any true to this, or it's simply someone made up and whoever started this rumour had no clue what he was talking about?
I heard there's some references in If I Could Change It All :neverusethis:
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Having said that... I was told that the mystery about Sister Mary was explored more or less secretly during the albums following Operation Mindcrime, and that the band was leaving clues in the albums. "Mother Mary in control" from Damaged comes to mind as a reference to the character. Was there any true to this, or it's simply someone made up and whoever started this rumour had no clue what he was talking about?
The bolded part. People began speculating that the long wait after Empire was because they explored doing a sequel to Mindcrime. That is incorrect. The reference to "Mother Mary" in "Damaged" was, according to the guys, when someone asked them who was next to me in 1997, just a biblical reference as some color to the whole "theme" in Promised Land of growing up and figuring out who you are.
But people have always thought PL was some sort of sequel to Mindcrime. It's all BS. They never did plan a sequel (all that garbage Tate spouted in 2005/2006 about a sequel always being planned was a complete marketing ploy). If you read back articles from 1988-2005, every one of them said that they never considered, nor would they, do a sequel. Mindcrime II was created because they needed money to cover a lawsuit they faced from Japanese promoters who sued them after the band ditched playing a Japanese tour in fall 2001 after the 9/11 attacks. Nothing less. Nothing more. In fact, I forget if I ever mentioned this, but Slater told me that Tate ran out of lyrical ideas, and it was Susan Tate that wrote the lyrics to that God awful "All the Promises." :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
If that's true, my Lord. :lol
Going back to Promised Land, has anyone ever deciphered what Tate is saying near the end of the song "Promised Land?" A friend speculated that Tate was saying "green is my favorite color," and I sorta hear that, but I wasn't sure...and not sure other than money, what Tate would referring to.
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Sequels are pretty much never better than the originals.
Promised Land is better than Mindcrime.
Therefore, Promised Land cannot be a sequel. :biggrin:
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Ok, I figured there might not be that much sustance to the "Sister Mary clues" thing after all, thanks :D
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Going back to Promised Land, has anyone ever deciphered what Tate is saying near the end of the song "Promised Land?" A friend speculated that Tate was saying "green is my favorite color," and I sorta hear that, but I wasn't sure...and not sure other than money, what Tate would referring to.
At which point towards the end? I think I know the part you're talking about. I can't make out part of it but it's something like "Everybody's [??] at each other" then he repeats "...at each other" a couple times. That part I clearly hear.
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Now, for a change... something that came back to me after many years.
I'll be the first one to preface that I know this might be as well a lot of speculative nonsense, since I am not-young enough to have lived in the pre-internet era when you heard music through second-hand cassette tapes and the news were travelling also second or third-fourth hand, so it might be as well something someone entirely made up or greatly misunderstood or whatever.
Having said that... I was told that the mystery about Sister Mary was explored more or less secretly during the albums following Operation Mindcrime, and that the band was leaving clues in the albums. "Mother Mary in control" from Damaged comes to mind as a reference to the character. Was there any true to this, or it's simply someone made up and whoever started this rumour had no clue what he was talking about?
There's a mystery about Sister Mary?
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Turn me on deadman.
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Well, for years the mystery was "Who killed Sister Mary"....
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Well, for years the mystery was "Who killed Sister Mary"....
I think that they revealed that it was a suicide on the video monitors during building empires.
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Going back to Promised Land, has anyone ever deciphered what Tate is saying near the end of the song "Promised Land?" A friend speculated that Tate was saying "green is my favorite color," and I sorta hear that, but I wasn't sure...and not sure other than money, what Tate would referring to.
At which point towards the end? I think I know the part you're talking about. I can't make out part of it but it's something like "Everybody's [??] at each other" then he repeats "...at each other" a couple times. That part I clearly hear.
I hear some stuff going something along the lines of: "Scream at night in cover!". And then the wonderful: "Drinks for all my friends" :hat
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Going back to Promised Land, has anyone ever deciphered what Tate is saying near the end of the song "Promised Land?" A friend speculated that Tate was saying "green is my favorite color," and I sorta hear that, but I wasn't sure...and not sure other than money, what Tate would referring to.
At which point towards the end? I think I know the part you're talking about. I can't make out part of it but it's something like "Everybody's [??] at each other" then he repeats "...at each other" a couple times. That part I clearly hear.
I hear some stuff going something along the lines of: "Scream at night in cover!". And then the wonderful: "Drinks for all my friends" :hat
Yeah, that's the part I am talking about. I can hear the line just as you both hear it as well. Classic Queensryche. Stuff too low to really make it audible. Just like they did throughout their discography.
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I shelved the QR albums for a while over the last year, but the Mindcrime anniversary had me breaking out Mindcrime, RFO and Warning over the last few days and I found myself loving those discs like I did when I first got into the band. I even listened to the self titled record with Todd the other night and sat there wondering why they never played more of that album live. I haven't really listened to that one in a much longer time than the classics since the production truly hurts my ears, but the songs are definitely there.
Nightwish fired Tarja, wrote a song about it (Bye Bye Beautiful) and then used it as the opening song for their next tour before retiring the song permanently. :lol QR should have done the same with Vindication.
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Focus on Metal podcast - www.focusonmetal.net - will be publishing part 1 of a two-part podcast interview with Jason Slater later today (approx. 4 p.m. Pacific). In it, he'll discuss his various projects with Queensryche from 2005-2012, and opens up on what went down in the recording of Operation: Mindcrime II.
If you're a fan of the band, the podcasts will be worth listening to.
Oh, and if you like predictions (I know the troll audience I have loves it), my guess is, the reunion with Tate and Rockenfield will be still be happening, along with Mike Stone, and Eddie, and finally Michael. And instead of trotting out Mindcrime (which Tate is doing this year), they'll trot out a two-year 30th Anniversary of Empire tour, where they'll play the record from front to back, in sequence. They've never done that before, and it's probably the only thing that would stir interest in promoters. That reunion of the Mindcrime II-era of the band will be a blip, but doing Empire in its entirety could lead to them playing 850-1,000 seat places again. At least for a couple years.
Edit - and before the "they won't reunite because none of the guys will do it after Tate spit on them" reasons, and all the self-respect bullshit, and how fans will lose respect...forget it. If anyone has been following, the whole band (post-DeGarmo) is all about cash. Cold, hard cash. Nothing less, nothing more. And now that both sides have seen it isn't working financially without the other, if there is a reunion possibility out there that will give them more cash, they will take it. Period. :lol
Anyway, be on the lookout for that podcast interview later today. Folks not familiar with the whole Tateryche era of the band (2003-2012), may learn some things.
p.s. if a reunited Wilton-Jackson-Tate-Rockenfield-Stone did indeed trot out Empire and play it in its entirety on a tour, would you be interested? I admit, at first I was like "absolutely not." But now I find myself reconsidering, since while I have seen all those songs except for one (Hand on Heart is the only one I haven't seen live), I sorta think it would be cool to hear Empire front-to-back. And Stone, by the end, got his shrill tone under control.
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After all that legal mess that went into the breakup of Tate from the rest of the band, I can't see a reunion working. It could happen, but it won't work. Not for 2 years. The personalities will clash something fierce if they haven't personally worked things out.
Think of the headache and money it would take to establish legal stuff and everybody be in agreement in order for this to happen.
Also, why would Rockenfield want to play with Tate again, especially after being spit on by Tate during a concert? I am a big proponent of forgiveness and reconciliation. But if that hasn't happened, then it's all about the money. I wouldn't want to see a show knowing they're still mad as fire ants at each other but they're playing one of their classic albums anyway.
Sure, there are many bands that put their differences aside and play music. But it can seem very pretentious. I don't think too many people are interested in that. The nostalgia thing is cool, but the drama isn't.
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I explained it in an edit above. You may have been posting after I edited.
Suffice it to say, money is the only thing that drives them. All that legal shit, and the disrespect toward one another -- it means nothing if the pay check is there. The only guy in that band that doesn't need cash hasn't played with them live since Dec. 1997. And every time he tried to come back, he couldn't convince them to invest money to grow the band, so he didn't bother.
It's all about the money, man. If the Tates have reached out to promoters about what to expect from a reunion tour between Tate-Wilton-Jackson-Rockenfield-Stone, and playing Empire in-full, and the numbers are right, they'll do it in a heartbeat. Timing is of course, everything. But I feel like it is pretty likely at this point.
Sure, there are many bands that put their differences aside and play music. But it can seem very pretentious. I don't think too many people are interested in that. The nostalgia thing is cool, but the drama isn't.
I think you'll be surprised. At the end of the day, people want to just go rock out. They aren't going to care what happened six years ago. They want a reason to go see music. And playing Empire in its entirety, with the four guys that were in the band the longest and Stone, will give that to them.
I'm not saying it is "right." I'm just saying I think it will happen.
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This thread was started in 2009 by AndyDT.
why did this make me laugh? :lol
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p.s. if a reunited Wilton-Jackson-Tate-Rockenfield-Stone did indeed trot out Empire and play it in its entirety on a tour, would you be interested? I admit, at first I was like "absolutely not." But now I find myself reconsidering, since while I have seen all those songs except for one (Hand on Heart is the only one I haven't seen live), I sorta think it would be cool to hear Empire front-to-back. And Stone, by the end, got his shrill tone under control.
I'm a QR fan from the beginning. I wore out at least 3 copies of the EP cassette and have seen them live every change I had. I think the only one I skipped was the stupid burlesque run of shows. I've probably seen them live more than any other band, with both Tate and TLT.
Under normal "band drama breakup" situations, I would probably jump all over an Empire reunion tour. But with the way this breakup came down, I have a 0.0% chance of being interested in seeing it.
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I’m with Chris on every line.
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I'm a QR fan from the beginning. I wore out at least 3 copies of the EP cassette and have seen them live every change I had. I think the only one I skipped was the stupid burlesque run of shows. I've probably seen them live more than any other band, with both Tate and TLT.
Under normal "band drama breakup" situations, I would probably jump all over an Empire reunion tour. But with the way this breakup came down, I have a 0.0% chance of being interested in seeing it.
I’m with Chris on every line.
I hear you both, and I respect that completely. I will say, however, that if my guess comes to pass, I think it'll be best to re-evaluate then. Because for me personally, I felt the same as you both. But after seeing Tate acoustic last year, and a couple of other things, I got some closure. And it has changed my outlook on whether I'd see Tate live again (now instead of an all-out NO, I have seen him, and my view now is, it will depend on the setlist and how he is singing).
So, if the reunion of the four longest-standing original members and Stone does happen, and they do trot out Empire, I'm much more open to it than I was a couple years ago. I have no interest in seeing Mindcrime, nor am I interested in a Greatest Hits set. But if its Empire in-full, and if Tate sounds pretty good, I may do it.
But again, all it is, is speculation on my part. What really will happen is anyone's guess. :lol
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Suffice it to say, money is the only thing that drives them.
I know artists are supposed to be all about their art, but as a working schlub myself trying to support my 2 young daughters, I can't fault a musician for doing something solely "for the money."
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You're forgetting about Parker and Todd. You assume they'd just get the boot as soon as the Tates called up the guys in QR?
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You're forgetting about Parker and Todd. You assume they'd just get the boot as soon as the Tates called up the guys in QR?
And you are assuming they wouldn't? You obviously don't know the power of money over the rest of the band. I think it's foolish to assume they wouldn't act in their own best interests over those of Todd and/or Parker. That's incredibly naďve.
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You're forgetting about Parker and Todd. You assume they'd just get the boot as soon as the Tates called up the guys in QR?
In 2005, Anthrax got big offers to reunite with Joey, a few years after putting out a killer record with John Bush and experiencing a big resurgence. What did they Do?
Reunited with Joey and Dan Spitz for the money, losing Bush in the process.
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As someone who hasn’t followed QR too closely, mostly due to my age (23), could someone please explain me why and when things started to go south for the band? Everybody seems to love the early albums and hate the 2000s albums untill the change to TLT.
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As someone who hasn’t followed QR too closely, mostly due to my age (23), could someone please explain me why and when things started to go south for the band? Everybody seems to love the early albums and hate the 2000s albums untill the change to TLT.
Generally, the point where things went south for Queensryche is considered to be somewhere in the 90's, but exactly where is somewhat subjective. For a lot of the metal and prog purists, the more commercial direction of Empire in 1990 was the moment where QR started to loose it; for those who liked the big grandiose rock anthems of their earlier work, it was the more subdued and esoteric Promised Land record in 1994; for those who like the rich multi-layered production of early Ryche, it was the stripped down Hear in the Now Frontier from 1997; and for those whose favourite aspect of QR's music was DeGarmo's songwriting, it was 1999's Q2K. A lot of it depends upon your personal taste in music and whatever it is that attracts you most to the band, but generally speaking, I think most would agree that it was around the time they were making Promised Land that the band began to experience difficulties in the interpersonal relationships of the band members themselves, strife which would manifest in their music soon thereafter.
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Part 1 of the podcast with Jason Slater is up:
https://www.extremepair.net/focusonmetal/podcasts/2018/focus-on-metal-375.mp3
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You're forgetting about Parker and Todd. You assume they'd just get the boot as soon as the Tates called up the guys in QR?
And you are assuming they wouldn't? You obviously don't know the power of money over the rest of the band. I think it's foolish to assume they wouldn't act in their own best interests over those of Todd and/or Parker. That's incredibly naďve.
Exactly. Parker is working a full time job at a Harley dealership (smart), and from what I heard, Todd is back to doing insurance adjusting (again, smart). Those two would land on their feet, although I think Parker is more likely to last long term in music at some point.
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As someone who hasn’t followed QR too closely, mostly due to my age (23), could someone please explain me why and when things started to go south for the band? Everybody seems to love the early albums and hate the 2000s albums untill the change to TLT.
Generally, the point where things went south for Queensryche is considered to be somewhere in the 90's, but exactly where is somewhat subjective. For a lot of the metal and prog purists, the more commercial direction of Empire in 1990 was the moment where QR started to loose it; for those who liked the big grandiose rock anthems of their earlier work, it was the more subdued and esoteric Promised Land record in 1994; for those who like the rich multi-layered production of early Ryche, it was the stripped down Hear in the Now Frontier from 1997; and for those whose favourite aspect of QR's music was DeGarmo's songwriting, it was 1999's Q2K. A lot of it depends upon your personal taste in music and whatever it is that attracts you most to the band, but generally speaking, I think most would agree that it was around the time they were making Promised Land that the band began to experience difficulties in the interpersonal relationships of the band members themselves, strife which would manifest in their music soon thereafter.
And I assume that, after DeGarmo left, Tate took control of their creative direction?
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100 percent correct, with a caveat. Q2k was a band effort all the way, with Kelly Gray literally stepping directly into Chris' shoes. And Tribe was unfinished because DeGarmo came back, and then left again. So it has a theme, but creatively, its not fully realized. It was really 2006 and Mindcrime 2 where Geoff took full creative control, and had it through 2012 and Dedicated to Chaos before being fired.
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You're forgetting about Parker and Todd. You assume they'd just get the boot as soon as the Tates called up the guys in QR?
And you are assuming they wouldn't? You obviously don't know the power of money over the rest of the band. I think it's foolish to assume they wouldn't act in their own best interests over those of Todd and/or Parker. That's incredibly naďve.
Considering how long it took Eddie, Scott, and Michael to kick Geoff out... Yeah. I can't quite imagine the scenario you're depicting.
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I don't think there's any point, aside from a bit of fun in imaging the possible scenarios, in speculating now on a possible Empire reunion 30th anniversary tour for 2020. QR are about to release a new album sometime soon, let's see how it goes... say that it tanks horribly and the band actually folds, or that it's their best album in 25-30 years and they work around their schedules to go on a short but "perfect" package tour that revamps them and gives them even more expsosure or whatever... the possibilites, both good and bad, are many at this point.
And hey, if at all, since they've done suites already in the past, they could revamp the "Building Empires" tour... playing maybe not an entire album, but a load of songs from both Mindcrime and Empire. Empire is a good album but personally I wouldn't bother that much to see it all from a reunited Queensryche and a de-tuned Tate.
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You're forgetting about Parker and Todd. You assume they'd just get the boot as soon as the Tates called up the guys in QR?
And you are assuming they wouldn't? You obviously don't know the power of money over the rest of the band. I think it's foolish to assume they wouldn't act in their own best interests over those of Todd and/or Parker. That's incredibly naďve.
Considering how long it took Eddie, Scott, and Michael to kick Geoff out... Yeah. I can't quite imagine the scenario you're depicting.
I'm not "depicting" any scenario. I am agreeing with the fact that those three guys are driven by money, and that is something that is, by all accounts, in short supply right now. They took so long to kick Geoff out for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is: the Tates were their cash cow and were findings ways to bring in money. Not the best ways. But still. The money was still flowing in. They only got rid of him when things became intolerable, the money was drying up, and it became clear that he was trying to screw them out of even more money. Accepting an invite to get back together because the money is drying up again is completely consistent with their character, should the opportunity present itself. You really don't think things through before posting, do you?
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I'm not "depicting" any scenario. I am agreeing with the fact that those three guys are driven by money, and that is something that is, by all accounts, in short supply right now. They took so long to kick Geoff out for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is: the Tates were their cash cow and were findings ways to bring in money. Not the best ways. But still. The money was still flowing in. They only got rid of him when things became intolerable, the money was drying up, and it became clear that he was trying to screw them out of even more money. Accepting an invite to get back together because the money is drying up again is completely consistent with their character, should the opportunity present itself.
Every word of the quoted above. Bingo.
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For those that listened to part 1 of the podcast with Jason Slater, what did you think?
Link: https://www.extremepair.net/focusonmetal/podcasts/2018/focus-on-metal-375.mp3
None of this is news to me, since Slater and I are close friends. But for people who don't, or didn't follow a lot of the history behind the band from 2006-2012, what are your thoughts, if any? Part 2 next week is going to be pretty revealing as well, including some stuff that really never got talked about.
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That was fascinating. I always liked his input on the forum regarding those records. One quote was extremely telling to me, given the current lineup's ambivalence to updating their setlist:
Regarding American Soldier (37:56): "There was a lot of disillusionment with being in the band, and if someone else was going to pick up the slack and get the work done, I think they were ok with that. Geoff was 1000% into it....but there wasn't a cohesive unit as a band that was excited about making the record."
So the band members weren't terribly interested in writing that record, and it fell to Geoff and Slater to pick up the slack and get the job done. I think that can be extrapolated to the current lineup. They played the same songs from 2012-2015. After the release of Condition Human, they updated the set a bit, but have kept the same base setlist with minor changes for the past 3 years now.
It seems that the band really needs someone that is more creative, or open to changing things to push them to do certain things at times, and without that person, they just plod along as they have been, without putting much effort into it.
Also, when Matt Barlow was with Iced Earth, the band rarely rehearsed due to his day job. So for 3 years, they kept a pretty standard setlist too. With Queensryche having two members in Florida (Todd & Casey), they may not want to spend the money to get together as a band and rehearse new songs more often. So that likely factors into it as well.
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As someone who hasn’t followed QR too closely, mostly due to my age (23), could someone please explain me why and when things started to go south for the band?
The end of the Empire tour... that was the point where the band were able to stop focusing on the climb up the mountain and take a look at the view around them from the summit... at which point Tate's pause for reflection led him to the realisation he was on the wrong one!
Promised Land, regardless of how well received and how loved by many it is, is where we get the immediate impact of this as Wilton's contributions fell off a cliff, which we now know isn't because of any lack of ideas, it was because Tate started picking and choosing what he would or wouldn't work on and that pretty much meant Wilton's core songwriting approach was marginalised significantly.
Then once DeGarmo left Tate started to take over entirely and that allowed him to direct the band in ways he saw fit, giving us the wonder of Kelly Gray, Randy Gane (there's a reason why Myth never got signed back in the day) and Jason Slater (big meh) as songwriters. And it became clear that without DeGarmo around there was no-one to massage Tate's ideas for vocals and lyrics into shape, leaving everything sounding that bit more generic.
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I listened to the podcast and while I knew about a lot of that stuff from when the lawsuit went down... It's interesting to hear someone speaking about it. What a sad sad state of affairs. It's almost a wonder that the rest of the band found it within themselves to finally kick Geoff out. It seems that they all felt like making OM2 was a bad idea - too bad they didn't stick to their guns on that one.
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Listened to that podcast. It's interesting to hear Slater's take on things. I think he exposes just how much dysfunction was going on within that band. I can understand more and more why DeGarmo left in 1997. You can only fight that kind of stuff for so long. Sad.
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Listened to that podcast. It's interesting to hear Slater's take on things. I think he exposes just how much dysfunction was going on within that band. I can understand more and more why DeGarmo left in 1997. You can only fight that kind of stuff for so long. Sad.
But something's not quite right about that, assuming Slater is right. He said essentially that Tate couldn't really relate to what Michael Wilton wrote and couldn't create melodies for it. When Chris was in the band, he was kind of a filter and added some melodies to Michael's stuff which Geoff could take from there. Without that, Tate thought Wilton's stuff was too heavy and Slater said he was kind of sneaky about keeping him uninvolved. At one point Wilton showed up to what he thought was a writing session only to find he was supposed to be recording stuff that was already written.
Presumably, Tate wouldn't have been pulling all of those shenanigans if Chris was in the band because he would have been working with Wilton. So I have to think that that level of disfunction started after Chris left, rather than it being a reason for him to leave.
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Presumably, Tate wouldn't have been pulling all of those shenanigans if Chris was in the band because he would have been working with Wilton. So I have to think that that level of disfunction started after Chris left, rather than it being a reason for him to leave.
Maybe. Maybe not. As Cruithne mentioned, Wilton's songwriting input dropped WAY off after Empire, and DeGarmo was still a part of the next 2 albums. Why was that? I think there was at least some measure of dysfunction growing even while DeGarmo was still in the band. And Susan Tate was probably a big part of it, since IIRC, it's pretty much been established that she was part of the reason why he left (besides the label crumbling). Was it just because of the business end of it? Probably not. I'm sure a good part of it was also on the creative front too. So while the dysfunction may not have been blatant like it was by the time O:M II happened, I wouldn't be surprised if it started a decade earlier.
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Presumably, Tate wouldn't have been pulling all of those shenanigans if Chris was in the band because he would have been working with Wilton. So I have to think that that level of disfunction started after Chris left, rather than it being a reason for him to leave.
Maybe. Maybe not. As Cruithne mentioned, Wilton's songwriting input dropped WAY off after Empire, and DeGarmo was still a part of the next 2 albums. Why was that? I think there was at least some measure of dysfunction growing even while DeGarmo was still in the band. And Susan Tate was probably a big part of it, since IIRC, it's pretty much been established that she was part of the reason why he left (besides the label crumbling). Was it just because of the business end of it? Probably not. I'm sure a good part of it was also on the creative front too. So while the dysfunction may not have been blatant like it was by the time O:M II happened, I wouldn't be surprised if it started a decade earlier.
You're likely right about all that. I didn't mean that there wasn't any strife that caused Chris to leave; just that I wouldn't have thought that the mess that Slater describes (about Tate trying to prevent people from getting involved, etc) was going on way back then. I didn't know a lot about QR when all that was going on so I only heard bits and pieces about why he left, after the fact.
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I don't know because I'm not close to the band, and those details haven't been disclosed, but generally speaking, those types of issues don't crop up overnight. It may not have been anything back then like what it ultimately became. But it wouldn't surprise me if it was going on in its early stages where Geoff was doing little things to try to push Michael to the background.
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The whole dynamic between Wilton and Tate is strange to me.
First, addressing Wilton's drop-off in the writing. Note that it began with Promised Land. I'm not sure if anyone but hardcores remember Wilton's other nickname (other than Whip)? It was Spike. Spike was essentially (at least how I remember it) what Wilton referred to as his "alter ego" after having too many beverages. On the PL tour, I believe Wilton was using guitar picks that said "Spike is Dead." I don't know this for certain, and never asked, but I always assumed it was because Wilton got some help during the time off from Empire-PL. That could be totally off base, but it's always what I assumed. And if that's true, it would explain a little why Wilton's writing dropped off significantly with PL...because he was busy with life stuff. Again, all speculation on my part.
On HITNF, he contributed even less, with just one song - Reach (a good one, with a nice riff and cool solo). So that trend continued. Q2k, everyone wrote everything together according to the credits, and that's true, they did work together, but it was mostly Kelly. Working from memory, the credits should be (according to an interview I did with Kelly 17 years ago):
(alphabetical)
Falling Down - Gray/Tate/Wilton (Wiliton's riff, Kelly's arrangement, both worked on solo)
Sacred Ground - Gray/Rockenfield/Tate
One Life - Gray/Tate
When the Rain Comes... - Tate/Wilton
How Could I? - Gray/Tate
Beside You - Gray/Tate
Liquid Sky - Gray/Rockenfield/Tate
Breakdown - Gray/Jackson/Rockenfield/Tate
Burning Man - Gray/Rockenfield/Tate/Wilton
Wot Kinda Man - Gray/Tate
Right Side of My Mind - Gray/Tate/Wilton
>>>>>So clearly, there was a unity on Q2k. A sense of "hey, we can do this without Chris." But come the time of Tribe, it really appears Wilton and Tate just butted heads completely. I remember my interview with Wilton where he blasted Tate for the direction early on (before Chris got involved), and the whole spat the summer of 2002 with Geoff calling the guys all "dysfunctional" on radio. But once the album finally got released, Geoff was complimentary of Wilton, saying that he had a big hand in the writing of them (which he did). So I'm guessing at that point they reconciled a bit. But once that tour cycle ended, it was obvious from that point forward that Tate was not interested in what Wilton was doing (as evident from the Mindcrime II - Dedicated to Chaos era).
Just a very strange dynamic. Slater's commentary in the podcast about the guys, at least from my two years or so of being much more involved with them was pretty spot-on. They all seem cool when you're talking to them, and when they need something from you, they'll be your best friend. But the moment they don't - its like you don't exist, and they become completely different. I can tell you from experiencing that from them first-hand, Slater is absolutely right about that.
They are just a really strange band, and without DeGarmo to bring the best out in all of them, and bridge together their divergent creative paths, they just miss the plot most of the time.
Even with the current era of QR with Todd and Parker in the band. I remember in spring 2013, backstage, they were talking about having to go back and remember the credits of who wrote what for the record. One thing that stood out was Todd saying at some point (I forget which song) that people wanted credit for things they didn't do. For example, Eddie is credited for doing background vocals on the self-titled. Eddie didn't sing a note. Todd did them all. But Eddie wanted credit. Todd didn't think it was a problem, because Eddie was going to be singing background on those songs anyway, so Eddie got a "background vocals" credit on the record.
But from a writing perspective -- Wilton is credited on Where Dreams Go to Die. But Wilton only slightly tweaked something on that song. On Open Road, Wilton didn't write the tune - Todd did. But Wilton wrote a solo and took Todd's solo, and slapped it on the end (so he slightly arranged the last bit of the song). And so Wilton took a credit on that tune.
However, I'm not slighting Wilton. I'm saying all that to support Slater's description of Michael, and why, perhaps, Tate didn't connect with him. Look at songs such as Redemption, Vindication, and Don't Look Back. Those songs are crafted around Wilton's major riffs. I'd bet my last dollar that Rockenfield and La Torre had a heavy hand arranging the songs around those riffs.
Michael is a killer player, and one of my favorite guitarists, and he writes great metal riffs. But if you look at his style of songwriting, you'll see most of the songs that are listed as Tate/Wilton are mostly metal riff heavy, with a more simple arrangement. So I can totally see what Slater was saying in the podcast, how Tate likely struggled at times to write over what Wilton was doing. Because a great riff (like the one in Murderer), by itself, doesn't lend itself to write lyrics on. The song needs to be fleshed out. And that's where I think at times, the disconnect between those two creatively was. QR always needed another guy to flesh out what Wilton and the other guys were trying to do, and make it inspiring to Tate to write over and gravitate to.
And perhaps, at the start of the Tateryche/Slateryche era, Tate simply didn't want to do that any longer because it was a big headache. I'm not saying it was right (I happen to think Tate had a responsibility to work on the music composed by the band, not other people), but I am saying that how Slater categorized everything is probably pretty spot-on, based on observation of the catalog of music, and the limited information on the creative side of the band that I know of and partially witnessed.
On Condition Human, Michael had a lot of credits. The writing chemistry between Wilton and La Torre is really good, because Wilton had some great riffs, and La Torre, being a musician, probably was able to take those riffs (in a DeGarmo/Gray/Slater mold) and expand on whatever initial demo arrangement Wilton put together. Tate was never able to really do that with Michael alone, because Tate isn't a music writer -- La Torre is. And La Torre is also into very heavy music like Michael. So there is a connection there, that didn't exist with Tate.
That said, like Slater said, keep in mind that Geoff is the one that championed MIchael's riff in Murderer -- Geoff likes heavy guitar riffs. But he's not able to pick up the guitar and take some great riffs and link them into a melodic song. He's not music writer in that sense. That's why Chris was vital, because he bridged that gap. La Torre now, along with Jackson (and Rockenfield, but now probably no longer) are able to fill that role, and that's why you see Michael being more prolific -- because the singer in the band is able to help craft (musically) the melodic passages needed.
Creatively, that's where Wilton and Tate had difficulty getting on the same page, and why Chris was so vital in that chemistry.
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And it's a shame that the band, as a whole, are so apathetic because, with LaTorre and, perhaps to a lesser degree, Parker as writers, they REALLY have some good writing chemistry and are able to craft some REALLY great tunes. And with Parker on guitar, they have the guitar chops to replicate at least a credible version of that complex, melodic signature QR sound. Unfortunately, that just isn't a priority for them. They could be great. But they have squandered so many opportunities and so much fan goodwill.
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Presumably, Tate wouldn't have been pulling all of those shenanigans if Chris was in the band because he would have been working with Wilton. So I have to think that that level of disfunction started after Chris left, rather than it being a reason for him to leave.
The level of dysfunction, where you get the sense that Tate was playing Wilton in the hope that he'd just leave the band, probably did only kick in after DeGarmo was no longer around to be Tate's handler and glue everything together, but I understand the rot had already taken hold long before DeGarmo left. I wonder if you've seen the following interview before?
https://www.loudersound.com/features/queensryche-the-dark-empire
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They took so long to kick Geoff out for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is: the Tates were their cash cow and were findings ways to bring in money.
I should've thought it's quite challenging to boot a shareholder from a corporation unless you've got an incredibly good reason to :-\ Tate trying to cut the rest of the corporation out of the proceeds of selling the Mindcrime movie rights and assaulting the other members of the band would do it. The QR cabaret tour, not so much :angel:
I'm not sure I'd describe the Tates as their cash cow either, I'd long since assumed it was more like QR were the Tates' cash cow, after all Tate never went through with his plan to leave the band after the Promised Land tour for some mysterious reason (not), and they engineered it such that Tate's wife ended up managing the band allowing Tate to manipulate situations such that he could cut the other three out of certain processes where the competing visions of how the band should be could create an impasse, holding up their ability to generate income.
Rockenfield's wife, at the time, being good friends with Tate's wife presumably contributed significantly to Tate engineering the situation where she was managing them. EdBass strikes me as pretty easy going, and was never a significant contributor to the writing anyway, so I imagine he was quite easy to talk into such a move.
On the other hand the impression I've had since the early 2000s is that Wilton hasn't happy with QR's direction for a very long time but he was stuck between wanting to continue making a living out of the band, wanting to not let Tate get full control of the band he founded and hoping that eventually things would turn around... which they did, just not after the band had become a bit of a laughing stock, unfortunately. Wilton's frog got out of the pot looking pretty damned boiled.
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If you like metal, and like or liked Queensryche, listen to part 2 of this Focus on Metal podcast. Jason Slater describes his later years of working with the band, and the cluster F everything was...including the business side. Some will certainly surprise you. Tune in.
Direct link: https://www.extremepair.net/focusonmetal/podcasts/2018/focus-on-metal-376.mp3
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Presumably, Tate wouldn't have been pulling all of those shenanigans if Chris was in the band because he would have been working with Wilton. So I have to think that that level of disfunction started after Chris left, rather than it being a reason for him to leave.
The level of dysfunction, where you get the sense that Tate was playing Wilton in the hope that he'd just leave the band, probably did only kick in after DeGarmo was no longer around to be Tate's handler and glue everything together, but I understand the rot had already taken hold long before DeGarmo left. I wonder if you've seen the following interview before?
https://www.loudersound.com/features/queensryche-the-dark-empire
Whoa
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It is easy to say now, but the legacy and reputation of this band would be so much better now had they called it quits after DeGarmo left the band. Even the crappy Hear in the Now Frontier being part of that legacy wouldn't have mattered since everything else would have been great (to varying degrees based on your tastes).
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It is easy to say now, but the legacy and reputation of this band would be so much better now had they called it quits after DeGarmo left the band. Even the crappy Hear in the Now Frontier being part of that legacy wouldn't have mattered since everything else would have been great (to varying degrees based on your tastes).
Well, as I've said many a time I love HiTNF :'(... personally I think the legacy and reputation of the band would be so much better if Tate had just quit after doing Promised Land. Even had DeGarmo left anyway, a QR driven by Wilton with a LaTorre style singer who was actually a fan of the band's music would at least have their reputation in tact even if their popularity was no different to today.
It's fascinating to read Michael Wilton's court declaration again as I'd forgotten how much information he dropped that wasn't public knowledge:
https://www.metalinsider.net/legal-woes/the-battle-for-queensryche-gets-uglier-band-responds-to-geoff-tates-lawsuit
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Geez just at the beginning.
Geoff Tate’s ongoing assault and anger issues have become a serious detriment to the brand of QUEENSRYCHE. In 2000, we had a band meeting regarding our next CD and at that meeting, he did not like some topics of discussion and stormed out of the meeting after throwing a chair across the room. In 2007, Geoff Tate was angered by something and approached me in the band’s dressing room and proceeded to smash my laptop on the table and then hit me in the face while spitting on me and pushing me around the room for approximately 15 minutes. In mid-2011, the band held a meeting in the dressing room to discuss playing some of our older material such as ‘Queen Of The Reich’. Geoff Tate got very upset and eventually screamed, ‘I am NOT ever going to play those stupid songs!’ He then stormed out of the room. We have not been allowed to perform those songs since. In late 2011, the band held another meeting in regards to performing Operation: Mindcrime in its entirety for ShipRocked, a rock and roll-themed cruise scheduled for November 2011. The band was asking simple questions as to why we were being offered this and that. We wanted some more information about the offer. Geoff Tate got very upset and screamed at us, something to the effect of ‘what’s the problem and why can’t you just do this?’ and then stormed out of the dressing room.
I know that it's easy to say it just like it's easy to say to a beaten wife "if your husband is violent, leave him", but every single one of those occasions could have been enough to prompt them to fire Geoff there and then.
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Here are the lawsuit docs again for anyone who wants them. Here are ALL of them, in order (mostly):
www.anybodylistening.net/lawsuit.html
Regarding pt. 2 of Slater's Focus on Metal interview, I think one of the most revealing thing on there is not just that Slater wrote the songs, but that he gave up a piece of his publishing to the band that had nothing to do with the record (talking MC 2 specifically). I mean, Scott didn't even play on Mindcrime II, but he gets a piece of the publishing from the record, because Slater gave it to him. Say what you want about the quality of that record, but I don't know too many people that would do that, and have the integrity to think of the band before himself.
That's gone on to bite Slater in the ass, of course, because as he alluded to in the podcast, he hasn't been seeing any of the financial statements from Queensryche in quite a while, and is pretty confident (as he said in the podcast) that he is owed money by the Tates and QR. I believe him. I saw the last one. Suffice it to say, only DeGarmo (still) could make a living off his publishing (not a rock star life, but enough per month to live on). Everyone else literally needs every dime of it to make ends meet.
So the fact that not only has Slater NOT seen the financials in recent times, but he allegedly is owed money, and he gave up some of his publishing to further the band, really makes it that much worse. Particularly since according to Slater, he hasn't spoken to the Tates in years, and they only call him when they need something.
I also thought the apology to Ty Tabor was a good one. It wasn't Slater's fault, as he said, Tabor contributed a solo to Frequency Unknown thinking it was for Tate's solo record. But the Tates apparently never told Tabor it was for that fake QR album. What a cluster. And for you Ty/King's X fans out there, Slater got an email back from Tabor already about it, and Ty appreciated the public apology. :)
But man, just wow, on every level. I'm glad Slater put his story out there. He left out some bits that aren't necessary, and he was...very even-keeled when he didn't need to be, which shows a lot. Suffice it to say, as many of you have said, Queensryche should have ended after HITNF, or had Geoff left after PL, which he was contemplating.
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p.s. re: Hear in the Now Frontier
I have to admit, 21 years later, the record has really grown on me. Maybe its nostalgia for a simpler time, but I really feel like the following tracks (in no order) really are pretty good:
Sign of the Times
The Voice Inside
Some People Fly
Hero
Reach
You
Hit the Black
spOOL
Chasing Blue Sky
>>>>I mean, that's nine tracks (eight that were on the actual record), and frankly, that's pretty good. The problem is, of course, the filler. 14 total tracks, and six of them (at least to my ear) are just way undercooked and just not good (Saved could probably be resurrected with a different vocal take).
But I for one am very grateful they made HITNF, and looking back on it two decades later, the stronger songs on there (for me) still resonate, or resonate even more now.
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Great interview. Could have been half as long if he'd just stop saying "you know".
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Regarding pt. 2 of Slater's Focus on Metal interview, I think one of the most revealing thing on there is not just that Slater wrote the songs, but that he gave up a piece of his publishing to the band that had nothing to do with the record (talking MC 2 specifically). I mean, Scott didn't even play on Mindcrime II, but he gets a piece of the publishing from the record, because Slater gave it to him. Say what you want about the quality of that record, but I don't know too many people that would do that, and have the integrity to think of the band before himself.
That's gone on to bite Slater in the ass, of course, because as he alluded to in the podcast, he hasn't been seeing any of the financial statements from Queensryche in quite a while, and is pretty confident (as he said in the podcast) that he is owed money by the Tates and QR. I believe him. I saw the last one. Suffice it to say, only DeGarmo (still) could make a living off his publishing (not a rock star life, but enough per month to live on). Everyone else literally needs every dime of it to make ends meet.
So the fact that not only has Slater NOT seen the financials in recent times, but he allegedly is owed money, and he gave up some of his publishing to further the band, really makes it that much worse. Particularly since according to Slater, he hasn't spoken to the Tates in years, and they only call him when they need something.
I also thought the apology to Ty Tabor was a good one. It wasn't Slater's fault, as he said, Tabor contributed a solo to Frequency Unknown thinking it was for Tate's solo record. But the Tates apparently never told Tabor it was for that fake QR album. What a cluster. And for you Ty/King's X fans out there, Slater got an email back from Tabor already about it, and Ty appreciated the public apology. :)
But man, just wow, on every level. I'm glad Slater put his story out there. He left out some bits that aren't necessary, and he was...very even-keeled when he didn't need to be, which shows a lot. Suffice it to say, as many of you have said, Queensryche should have ended after HITNF, or had Geoff left after PL, which he was contemplating.
The publishing thing is crazy. The band is getting paid for work that they didn't even do - not sure if that was a demand from the band at the time, or something that Slater was truly willing to do, but it's a very generous notion. Based on the secrecy of writing and recording the record without contributions from the band members, I'm not surprised that he did give them some publishing. My attitude would have been "if you want to get paid for publishing, you need to write the damn songs." But since the band wasn't given that opportunity, he did throw them a nice bone since they were generally excluded from the process.
I also thought the other telling thing is that the band members live rather extravagant lifestyles, despite the changing financial times and economy. That can help to explain why they play certain types of concerts, rather than slug it out on a bus for a month.
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Since it seems that HitHF have almost no love, I must say that I truly like the album. The only song on it that I don’t like is Hero (also Chasing the blue sky). Sure it isn’t at the same level of the EP to Promised Land run, but I’ll put just a bit below. Still very worth the Queensryche name IMO,which I think it’s not the case for Tribe (and it’s the case for the Todd’s albums). I guess the bare bones production is really the biggest barrier to appreciate the album.
Get a life, the voice inside, saved, you, miles away, reach, hit the black and spool to me are really very very good songs!
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Since it seems that HitHF have almost no love, I must say that I truly like the album. The only song on it that I don’t like is Hero (also Chasing the blue sky). Sure it isn’t at the same level of the EP to Promised Land run, but I’ll put just a bit below. Still very worth the Queensryche name IMO,which I think it’s not the case for Tribe (and it’s the case for the Todd’s albums). I guess the bare bones production is really the biggest barrier to appreciate the album.
Get a life, the voice inside, saved, you, miles away, reach, hit the black and spool to me are really very very good songs!
You're not alone in your appreciation of Hear. I don't love the album, but I do enjoy giving it a listen on occasion. I disagree with you about Tribe, though. I think that it has some very good moments.
The album that I can't stand to listen to is Q2K. I've tried a few times over the years, but I can't find anything redeeming about that record.
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Since it seems that HitHF have almost no love, I must say that I truly like the album. The only song on it that I don’t like is Hero (also Chasing the blue sky). Sure it isn’t at the same level of the EP to Promised Land run, but I’ll put just a bit below. Still very worth the Queensryche name IMO,which I think it’s not the case for Tribe (and it’s the case for the Todd’s albums). I guess the bare bones production is really the biggest barrier to appreciate the album.
Get a life, the voice inside, saved, you, miles away, reach, hit the black and spool to me are really very very good songs!
You're not alone in your appreciation of Hear. I don't love the album, but I do enjoy giving it a listen on occasion. I disagree with you about Tribe, though. I think that it has some very good moments.
The album that I can't stand to listen to is Q2K. I've tried a few times over the years, but I can't find anything redeeming about that record.
WTRC & TRSOMM are amazing songs, but otherwise I agree. Q2K is very not-good.
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I always thought the guitar work in HITNF, while different, was amazing. The solo in Hero, The Voice Inside, You, and then the lead playing in most songs really have this killer touch to it. There's a lot of nuance still to the guitar work that I think because of the production, really went understated. The dry production didn't do the guitars any favors.
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Echoing the sentiment on Q2Krap...
That was supposed to be the return to form album. Biggest disappointment (in relation to expectations) in their entire catalog. It’s amazing that they managed to write one of their most amazing songs (Right Side) among a sea of overwhelming MEH.
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I'd take Q2K over HITNF any time. Partially due to the nostalgia of when I got into the band and Q2K being the next new album that they released and seeing them three times on that tour and partially because I think those songs are just better.
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Not saying it's a great album or anything, but Q2K >>>> HitNF.
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Echoing the sentiment on Q2Krap...
That was supposed to be the return to form album. Biggest disappointment (in relation to expectations) in their entire catalog. It’s amazing that they managed to write one of their most amazing songs (Right Side) among a sea of overwhelming MEH.
I think Right Side is vastly OVERRATED. It's good, but I don't think its nearly as good as the praise it gets. Q2k is summed up for me by Kelly Gray himself in an interview he gave me at S2k1 in June 2001:
Q2k has a healing element on it. Being a little looser on the song writing helped the guys bridge the gap and move forward. It’s not the greatest record, but it’s a good, solid record. It gave the band some confidence that we were able to do it, as I am sure there is a bit of security lost in the ordeal of losing Chris. It was a good kick in the pants. When I signed on, I was full of energy and ready to go. Having me in the band, there was immediate gratification because we were able to record and produce it with no waiting. On Q2k, a lot of those tracks are directly from that spontaneous writing element. They were written and recorded at the same time. “Breakdown” was actually a one-take from a rehearsal. The main portion of it is live.
Looking back now over almost 20 years, I think HITNF is the superior record. The best songs on HITNF are better (for me) than the best songs on Q2k. But there's certainly more filler on HITNF than there is on Q2k. As Kelly said, Q2k is a good record, but not the greatest thing. I've always said that a second record with Kelly likely would have gotten much tighter and better. But who knows.
But HITNF has a complexity (as I mentioned above regarding the guitars) to the songs that Q2k does not have at all. It is an understated complexity, but it is there, and distinctly Queensryche. Whereas Q2k literally puts Kelly Gray in the exact same role Chris had with the band, and if you know Kelly's writing, he's not a technical guitarist who is concerned with nuance. His big thing is chords and groove.
Anyway, the HITNF sessions produced 15 songs (including Chasing Blue Sky). Of those 15, I personally very much like 9 of them. The Q2k sessions produced 13 songs (including Til There Was You, and Howl). Of those 13, I really like 8 of them. Percentage-wise, that would put Q2k ahead of HITNF for me. But I simply like those nine songs on HITNF BETTER than the songs on Q2k.
Both records, IMO, are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. But both were very different directions for the band. I think the HITNF direction would have ultimately been much more successful had EMI not folded, and the band been given an opportunity to tour Europe and really continue the promotion of the record like EMI had started to (SotT and You did very well at radio). HITNF had that "musical evolution" thread with the QR nuances in it, whereas Q2k sounded like a different band to a degree (the drums had the right sound, but Gray's guitar was dominant and very different than Chris) with Geoff . And Atlantic promoted the hell out of it, and it went nowhere.
Interesting few years in the band's history for sure. Produced some really great songs, and some bad ones, but ultimately, I think HITNF was the better album.
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It really bums me out that the conversation around QR gets a bit cyclical. It's generally "well it went to pot at PL (or HITNF)"...
I wish they hadn't squandered the last 20+ years of their career with mediocre releases and half ass (or zero) touring. I'm sure looking back they might regret some of it too but won't adjust for their future, seemingly.
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It really bums me out that the conversation around QR gets a bit cyclical. It's generally "well it went to pot at PL (or HITNF)"...
I wish they hadn't squandered the last 20+ years of their career with mediocre releases and half ass (or zero) touring. I'm sure looking back they might regret some of it too but won't adjust for their future, seemingly.
Agreed. But they had their chances. They picked the wrong guy to replace Chris (and we know why know -- Kelly was Geoff's guy), and the never could manage to make the right decisions. Even with the current lineup -- I think most agree the type of songs they are writing are exactly what the band needs. But they don't play them live, and have embraced being a casino/nostalgia hair metal act. SMH.
It's just like after EMI folded, and Chris left, Queensryche just couldn't get out of its own way, despite being given numerous opportunities to do so. I really thought that once they fired Tate, and did that first record with Todd, they'd re-embrace metal and make some strides in returning to the metal scene and being more prominent. Instead, they ultimately fell back into the hair metal/nostalgia route, and don't play their new tunes. Final (?) nail in the coffin, I think.
But hey, we'll always have the music. And the new music they come up with is clearly more popular with most fans than the stuff post-PL.
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I'm with Kelly Gray, Q2K is a good record, while HITNF is barely mediocre, and I said it before, I would have liked for them to continue in the Q2K direction and see where it went.
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Reading these last couple pages prompted me to go back and listen to O:M and Empire. God dang Geoff had a voice on him. It's a shame he didn't take care of it and keep level headed.
>:(
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I tend to think and analyze to myself where Queensryche would have ended up if after Promised Land they decided to completely go back to their original roots and become a full on metal band again. This is obviously rock n roll fantasy as it would require Geoff Tate to be much more interested in heavy metal.
But I always wonder if after the PL tour and subsequent break were done, and the band regrouped and decided that the mainstream attempt was done (empire) and their experimentation phase (PL) is complete. And as a band, they wanted to go full on hard rock/metal, but with a modern progressive touch. I tend to think of a combination of Nevermore, Dream Theater and Symphony X.
What would the legacy of the band have been? I think their popularity would have been on par with Dream Theater for sure; which is something I think is deserving for Queensryche.
But when the die hard fans (people in this thread) are tending to grasp at straws trying to find reasons to like all the post PL albums, that clearly doesn't bode well for much success beyond the hardcores. I'm just as guilty of that too lol.....I think if I made a single album from the albums HITNF until OM2, it would be a pretty kick ass album. But thats 20 years of albums, so that's not a great sign.
But like I mentioned, I do wonder "what if" sometimes if the band made a different musical direction choice after PL to go full hard rock/metal what that would have lead to. And obviously if the band continued to get along and nobody left.
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I think that was the longest JJ post I've ever read. :lol
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every time I see this thread bumped I think there is an update on the new album.
but there isn't.
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Listening to PL this morning. "Someone Else?" is really something.
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Listening to PL this morning. "Someone Else?" is really something.
I was going to post something here a few weeks ago about how Someone Else (both versions) basically brought me to tears, but I thought it'd be too randomly emotional, considering what we were discussing in the thread at the time.
But yeah... they did... :'(
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I tend to think and analyze to myself where Queensryche would have ended up if after Promised Land they decided to completely go back to their original roots and become a full on metal band again. This is obviously rock n roll fantasy as it would require Geoff Tate to be much more interested in heavy metal.
But I always wonder if after the PL tour and subsequent break were done, and the band regrouped and decided that the mainstream attempt was done (empire) and their experimentation phase (PL) is complete. And as a band, they wanted to go full on hard rock/metal, but with a modern progressive touch. I tend to think of a combination of Nevermore, Dream Theater and Symphony X.
What would the legacy of the band have been? I think their popularity would have been on par with Dream Theater for sure; which is something I think is deserving for Queensryche.
But when the die hard fans (people in this thread) are tending to grasp at straws trying to find reasons to like all the post PL albums, that clearly doesn't bode well for much success beyond the hardcores. I'm just as guilty of that too lol.....I think if I made a single album from the albums HITNF until OM2, it would be a pretty kick ass album. But thats 20 years of albums, so that's not a great sign.
But like I mentioned, I do wonder "what if" sometimes if the band made a different musical direction choice after PL to go full hard rock/metal what that would have lead to. And obviously if the band continued to get along and nobody left.
To be honest with you, I don't think a "return to metal" after PL would have been possible. DeGarmo's interests changed as well. He was into really great guitar work (as I think PL and HITNF showed), but I think the days of "Queen of the Reich," and "En Force" were never going to happen again. The riffs would have been there, as his contributions to Tribe showed (Art of Life, Justified), but the style was more mid-tempo.
I remember Michael saying to me that the band (I think this was pre-Chris returning for Tribe) sat down with Tate and said that they'd welcome a shift to something more mid-tempo, but it'd have to be heavy like TOOL, and they could write those kinds of songs. But Geoff (at the time), according to Michael, wasn't into it, so he went and got outside writers (Mike Stone, his solo band - again, think 2002, prior to Chris coming back). That sorta drove a wedge between them. With Tribe, you'll notice some of the songs have that vibe in the riffs. And then there are other tunes that are more acoustic based.
So, if QR was able to "return to metal," it wouldn't be the metal of EP-Rage. It'd be probably be something in the vein of songs such as Desert Dance, Tribe, Damaged, Art of Life, Justified...but I think more of an emphasis on mid-tempo heaviness, as opposed to scorchers. But you never know, I mean look at how Tate sang Re-Arrange You on Mindcrime II. Imagine that song was driven by guitar instead of orchestration...that would have been a return to old school...
Listening to PL this morning. "Someone Else?" is really something.
Love that song. My favorite version is the live one though, where Michael comes in on guitar after the first verse, and then Eddie and Scott...wonderful tune.
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This is just getting silly. They've played brat fests in Wisconsin, water parks and theme parks. And now, Queensryche is headling the Feast of the Blessed Sacrament!
Also headlining on other nights...an oldies cover band and a touring Queen tribute act.
Yes, it's a legitimate Portuguese festival in Massachusetts, but it's just heartbreaking to see my once favorite band reduced to playing festivals like this for money. The association of playing such fests and sharing headliner status with cover bands and tribute bands drives me crazy.
https://feastoftheblessedsacrament.com/
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Wow, that's veering near spinal tap territory
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Can't wait for them to play Suite Sister Mary there
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I also thought the apology to Ty Tabor was a good one. It wasn't Slater's fault, as he said, Tabor contributed a solo to Frequency Unknown thinking it was for Tate's solo record. But the Tates apparently never told Tabor it was for that fake QR album. What a cluster. And for you Ty/King's X fans out there, Slater got an email back from Tabor already about it, and Ty appreciated the public apology. :)
That's interesting. I don't know if you remember, but Meniketti was in a somewhat similar situation. When I asked him publicly why he would contribute to Geoff's album under the circumstances, and laid out what was going on, Dave basically said he was blindsided and didn't know any of that. As far as he was concerned, he was just contributing a guitar solo on a friend's solo album because that is what he was asked to do. I don't think he felt duped the way it sounds like Ty did. But he obviously didn't have the full picture either.
I remember Michael saying to me that the band (I think this was pre-Chris returning for Tribe) sat down with Tate and said that they'd welcome a shift to something more mid-tempo, but it'd have to be heavy like TOOL, and they could write those kinds of songs. But Geoff (at the time), according to Michael, wasn't into it, so he went and got outside writers (Mike Stone, his solo band - again, think 2002, prior to Chris coming back). That sorta drove a wedge between them. With Tribe, you'll notice some of the songs have that vibe in the riffs. And then there are other tunes that are more acoustic based.
I have always thought that. I think you can even hear a strong mid-tempo Tool vibe in The Great Divide as well, despite that being a softer tune. I remember talking with a guy about the album on the drive to Concord for the DT/QR/FW show in 2003, and he was saying that to me. I hadn't picked up on the Tool vibe in that song before he mentioned it, and I immediately tried to shoot him down and was saying how I definitely could hear that influence on songs like Open and The Art of Life, but definitely NOT on TGD. But then I listened to the song with that in mind, and it was SO obvious that I now can't NOT hear Tool when I listen to that song.
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This is just getting silly. They've played brat fests in Wisconsin, water parks and theme parks. And now, Queensryche is headling the Feast of the Blessed Sacrament!
Also headlining on other nights...an oldies cover band and a touring Queen tribute act.
Yes, it's a legitimate Portuguese festival in Massachusetts, but it's just heartbreaking to see my once favorite band reduced to playing festivals like this for money. The association of playing such fests and sharing headliner status with cover bands and tribute bands drives me crazy.
https://feastoftheblessedsacrament.com/
I mean if that's where they want to play that's where they play. I'm curious how much they get paid for a gig like that.
I remember going to RibFest in Florida once where the headliner was a very, very drunk David Lee Roth
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I went to a weekend community food/music festival in the city I grew up in last summer, and Loverboy was headlining. I was told they their rates were $40k-$50k for that 90 minutes. LOVERBOY!
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I went to a weekend community food/music festival in the city I grew up in last summer, and Loverboy was headlining. I was told they their rates were $40k-$50k for that 90 minutes. LOVERBOY!
Everybody's workin' for the weekend.
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I went to a weekend community food/music festival in the city I grew up in last summer, and Loverboy was headlining. I was told they their rates were $40k-$50k for that 90 minutes. LOVERBOY!
Everybody's workin' for the weekend.
No kidding. :lol
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I went to a weekend community food/music festival in the city I grew up in last summer, and Loverboy was headlining. I was told they their rates were $40k-$50k for that 90 minutes. LOVERBOY!
Yeah, but because they had hit singles that crossed over into pop, I would bet their guarantees are higher than Queensryche's. And that really isn't all that much money. Let's be very modest and assume their overhead (travel costs, crew, rigging, etc.) is $10,000. That brings them down to $30k-$40k. Divided by 5 members (do they have 5?), that's $6k-$8k per person. And that's BEFORE tax. I mean, yeah, it's not bad money for playing a gig. But it's not going to make you rich either, unless you are a road dog and have a bunch of gigs.
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I went to a weekend community food/music festival in the city I grew up in last summer, and Loverboy was headlining. I was told they their rates were $40k-$50k for that 90 minutes. LOVERBOY!
Yeah, but because they had hit singles that crossed over into pop, I would bet their guarantees are higher than Queensryche's. And that really isn't all that much money. Let's be very modest and assume their overhead (travel costs, crew, rigging, etc.) is $10,000. That brings them down to $30k-$40k. Divided by 5 members (do they have 5?), that's $6k-$8k per person. And that's BEFORE tax. I mean, yeah, it's not bad money for playing a gig. But it's not going to make you rich either, unless you are a road dog and have a bunch of gigs.
Yep. It's all about the guaranteed money. I have a Fates Warning contract from their Inside Out days I believe (or might have been No Exit, can't quite remember), and their guarantee fee was $500. Not sure how much $500 was back in the day though.
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Still nothing on the new album?
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Yep. It's all about the guaranteed money. I have a Fates Warning contract from their Inside Out days I believe (or might have been No Exit, can't quite remember), and their guarantee fee was $500. Not sure how much $500 was back in the day though.
Pretty sure it was $500.
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I have a Fates Warning contract from their Inside Out days I believe (or might have been No Exit, can't quite remember), and their guarantee fee was $500. Not sure how much $500 was back in the day though.
Just looked at an inflation calculator online. If it was for Inside Out (1994), then that would be worth about $845 in today's money. If it was for No Exit (1988), then that would be worth about $1068 today.
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Some dudes react to Eyes of a Stranger - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCypSykI2tk
Pretty cool.
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Interesting blog post: https://www.anybodylistening.net/top10underrated.html
This is Queensryche's top 10 most underrated songs. My list would look very different. But cool topic.
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I can stand behind some of those choices very confidently, especially One more time. My number one pick would probably be Lady Jane, though.
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My list would also look very different with Lady Jane very high, and of the top of my head probably Sign Of The Times, One And Only and Gonna Get Close To You would be there also.
But is Della Brown really underrated? I had the impression that a lot of people like it.
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I scanned the list only because it's Brian.
No Sanctuary is easily a TAC Top 10 QR song. Love it. I don't underrate it.
I actually also think that One More Time is a pretty decent tune.
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One More Time is easily my favourite song on PL, that guitar solo alone is just epic. Not sure about some of the other choices but is Della Brown not considered a classic, that’s an amazing song.
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One More Time is easily my favourite song on PL
Ditto - the only song off PL that I really love and have played regularly. Good to see it getting a mention in that list. Most of the rest of those songs I struggle to even remember , which is no surprise given the albums in question.
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Interesting list for sure, and there are some choices I agree with, but less than half.
For starters, Neue Regel is my favorite QR song of all time and spOOL is my favorite off HitNF, but judging by comments other fans have made about both songs, I wouldn't say that either are underrated - certainly not by the fanbase - which is what I'm assuming we're gauging this by. In both cases, I think the songs are both thought well of, if not as the best moments on their respective albums.
On the other end of the spectrum, I know not much is thought of Dirty 'Lil Secret, and quite frankly, I think it's justified (no pun intended). To these ears, it's nowhere near the quality of the rest of QR's output from that time period.
In short, here's what I'd say my list would be, considering just the albums from the original lineup in no particular order:
One and Only
Anytime/Anywhere (barring the juvenile lyrics)
Chasing Blue Sky
Out of Mind
Disconnected (do not get all the hate for this track)
Lady Jane
One Last Time
The Whisper
The Art of Life
Warning (great song always overshadowed by THotF, NM156 and RtM)
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My underrated tracks, in no particular order:
One and Only
Hand on Heart
Out of Mind
I Will Remember
Before the Storm
Lady Jane
Hero
Tribe
All I Want
One More Time
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It makes me very happy that many of you also singled out Lady Jane. I've always felt like that song never gets the love it deserves.
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I don't dislike it. But it has always been one of my least favorite tracks on the album.
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Thanks for posting, bosk1.
Let me explain my rationale to some choices, such as "Neue Regel."
First and foremost, I made sure none of the tunes were ever singles. But then I tried to look at it from a casual fan perspective. More fans that know the stuff from Mindcrime, the hits from Empire, and maybe some of the more metal tracks from the earlier 1980s. It was really difficult to pick a list, and obviously, it is completely subjective.
But let me address a few:
Neue Regel -- Personally, this song is in my top-10 all time for the original QR. But most fans (again, taken from a casual perspective, IMO) are not as familiar with that song, as they are stuff such as Walk in the Shadows, The Killing Words, I Will Remember, and Screaming in Digital. So yes, if you are a hardcore, you know Neue Regel (I would hope so). But if you were just a casual fan of the band, that track likely may have gone unnoticed over the years.
No Sanctuary -- Absolutely underrated, although again, personally, one of my favs. I believe that when most casual fans think of The Warning by QR, they think of Take Hold of the Flame, the title track, Roads to Madness, NM 156. No Sanctuary got very little play over the years, and while it is an amazing song, it has flown under the radar.
Della Brown -- it has never been a single, nor has it ever been played extensively on a tour. Just sporadically here and there over the years (for example, they only played it a couple times on the Empire tour, never played it on PL, and then only played it at a handful of gigs on the HITNF tour when Tate was sick. It was played more after that, by the post-DeGarmo lineups of the band, but it was never really a featured song. And in remembering conversations over the decade or so on my old forum, it was a pretty polarizing track. I happen to think it should get a lot more love than a lot of hardcores gave it, and again, mainstream folks never really got exposed to it a lot, other than it being performed at QR's MTV Unplugged session.
In addition, a few of you pointed out songs that I absolutely would include if I expanded the list to say 15. Lady Jane, Out of Mind, Justified, London, One and Only, immediately come to mind. But having to squash it to top-10 cut out a few. Also, to whoever selected the song "Tribe," that was not written by the original lineup with DeGarmo. That was written without him, and he does not appear on that track at all. So at least for my criteria in establishing this list, that's not even a consideration.
Had I done a fully comprehensive list of the entirety of the catalog under the QR name, it would look entirely different than this. :)
Overall, its just a blog, and despite it obviously being opinion, I usually write in a very definitive way. But I thought my choices were pretty fair. It was fun to sit down and put that all together.
Thanks again for posting it, bosk, and thanks to those who checked it out.
p.s.
It makes me very happy that many of you also singled out Lady Jane. I've always felt like that song never gets the love it deserves.
AMEN. The guitar solo in that song is classic Rage-era to my ears, and I completely agree it should have gotten more love. It would have probably been 11 or 12 on my list had I gone that far.
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I don't dislike it. But it has always been one of my least favorite tracks on the album.
Yeah, but being one of the least best/favorite songs on Promised Land is like being the least hot supermodel.
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I don't dislike it. But it has always been one of my least favorite tracks on the album.
Yeah, but being one of the least best/favorite songs on Promised Land is like being the least hot supermodel.
Yeah, I totally get that line of thinking. And I guess I don't really disagree. But for me, the unfortunate consequence is that it is like being the supermodel that, after looking at all of the other hotter supermodels, by the time I get to that one, I'm like, "eh, skip." She may be hot, but she really suffers by comparison just due to who she hangs out with.
...and this analogy sort of makes me uncomfortable. :lol
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I don't dislike it. But it has always been one of my least favorite tracks on the album.
Yeah, but being one of the least best/favorite songs on Promised Land is like being the least hot supermodel.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2e0vmg.jpg)
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:lol
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TAC, you shouldn't post the "after" picture of what the doctors told you would look like after a sex change operation.
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TAC, you shouldn't post the "after" picture of what the doctors told you would look like after a sex change operation.
Well, I told him I wanted the KevShmev look and he...
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/946/735/a0a.jpg)
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Friday Music is releasing a new double-LP vinyl remaster of Empire on August 24.
https://fridaymusic.com/collections/pre-order/products/queensryche-empire-180-gram-audiophile-vinyl-limited-anniversary-edition-gatefold-cover
Not sure how many of you are that much into the original band to buy this, but mine is pre-ordered through Amazon (you can get it a couple bucks cheaper that way). Planning to do a bit of a review of it on my blog at www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html, and see how the remaster sounds. The QR catalog was previously remastered in 2003, but many fans complained at how hot they were mastered, and that the catalog was a victim of the Loudness War that was/is going on. I'm one of them. Those 2003 editions pop at higher volumes, and the dynamics are washed out.
I am hoping this first foray into Queensryche by Friday Music (who has a decent reputation at projects like this, from cursory research on them) results in something that sounds amazing. Fingers crossed.
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I saw over the weekend that former Queensryche guitarist Mike Stone filled in for Parker Lundgren, and will be doing so through September. Parker apparently has "family issues" that need addressing this month. No idea what that means, but hope they get resolved. Interesting. Stone's a real good guy and I'm glad to see him out there again.
Then again, Queensryche has been saying for over a year and a half that Scott Rockenfield is on "parental leave." Uh huh. :rollin
I happen to believe Parker will be back. It's now his only source of income. I took note of the fact he left his "day job" in motorcycle sales, and unless he picked up another gig somewhere, I have to imagine dude has bills to pay like the rest of us. But who knows...he could get "Wally Pipped" if he isn't careful.
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Nothing against Stone individually, but I do NOT want to ever heard him in Queensryche.
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When did this become a thing where band members are interchangeable? No problem with someone wanting a break if they’ve just had a kid but when did it become fine for the band to just carry on playing shows with a replacement? When I was growing up every member of the band was important and if I went to see Bon Jovi I expected to see the proper band. If people were having kids or whatever I assume they arranged the touring accordingly.
This isn’t just Queensr˙che by any means but I still find it strange that you can say to your fans that founding member Scott Rockenfield needs to take some paternity leave but don’t worry, we’ll just get a stand in drummer for a few shows like it’s a normal job where you get holidays and paternity leave and the company keeps running.
I totally get why bands do it as they basically make their money from touring now and it’s their livelihood but when did it become ok and fans wouldn’t really care? Can you imagine Dream Theater touring and telling fans (often long after they’ve bought tickets) “oh by the way John Myung won’t be playing the first few dates because his wife just gave birth so we’ve got some no name session guy in to fill in?
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I feel like most people would say, 'yeah, that makes sense that he'd want to be with his family. Hope the fill-in guy is good.'
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When did this become a thing where band members are interchangeable? No problem with someone wanting a break if they’ve just had a kid but when did it become fine for the band to just carry on playing shows with a replacement? When I was growing up every member of the band was important and if I went to see Bon Jovi I expected to see the proper band. If people were having kids or whatever I assume they arranged the touring accordingly.
If you saw Bon Jovi with all original members, in those days, as bands were coming up, I don't think they had the option to schedule touring accordingly.
My guess is that Scott is taking this time, because (and I'm guessing), he likely neglected something similar in the past.
This isn’t just Queensr˙che by any means but I still find it strange that you can say to your fans that founding member Scott Rockenfield needs to take some paternity leave but don’t worry, we’ll just get a stand in drummer for a few shows like it’s a normal job where you get holidays and paternity leave and the company keeps running.
At this point, Queensryche is a small step above Great White, Ratt, and Quiet Riot. Plus, they just landed the Scorpions gig. Pretty sure the brand cannot turn that down.
Can you imagine Dream Theater touring and telling fans (often long after they’ve bought tickets) “oh by the way John Myung won’t be playing the first few dates because his wife just gave birth so we’ve got some no name session guy in to fill in?
Well, in 2010, when Iron Maiden called, especially after DT had basically wrapped up their tour cycle, in MP's words, they couldn't turn it down. If JM had a real issue, I'm pretty sure we would've seen Dave Larue on stage with DT.
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Maybe it’s just me then but I’d be like “why didn’t they just delay the tour for X number of weeks” Maybe I’m just an entitled prick but I like to see the whole band that I paid to see. It’s maybe different if it’s a last minute unforeseen thing but, even then, what if it was JLB or Petrucci? Would you still be ok with that?
In relation to Queensr˙che, would they get a stand in for Michael Wilton or Todd? I feel like they would not do the show if either of those were missing so why go ahead without Scott and, to a lesser extent, Parker?
Just something I’ve noticed more in recent years when I never used to notice bands touring with stand in members
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Not sure this is a terribly new thing. Metallica had a a roadie fill in twice on rhythm guitar when James Hetfield was injured. I don't recall exactly how long it lasted either time, but I assume the first incident was at least a couple months since Hetfield had broken his wrist while skateboarding. I know there have been other similar situations, but I can't recall any specifically at this point.
That said, I think it depends on the band and the member who is being replaced. For most bands, having a replacement singer wouldn't fly. For me personally, I'd be pissed if DT substituted some no-name for John Myung (unless I knew about it before buying tickets).
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I can only speak for myself, but I was pretty pissed when Scott dropped out of the tour. This was after I dropped nearly $100 for a ticket. I got to see Ed and Michael stand like statues and I just kept thinking that Casey was not Scott. Todd saved the show for me.
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Maybe it’s just me then but I’d be like “why didn’t they just delay the tour for X number of weeks” Maybe I’m just an entitled prick but I like to see the whole band that I paid to see. It’s maybe different if it’s a last minute unforeseen thing but, even then, what if it was JLB or Petrucci? Would you still be ok with that?
Never said I'd be OK with it.
In relation to Queensr˙che, would they get a stand in for Michael Wilton or Todd? I feel like they would not do the show if either of those were missing so why go ahead without Scott and, to a lesser extent, Parker?
The Queensryche brand would get a stand in for anyone they needed to. Sorry. That's how I feel.
Oh, and Peter, I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest. I hope I'm not giving you that impression. Just discussing. :)
Not sure this is a terribly new thing. Metallica had a a roadie fill in twice on rhythm guitar when James Hetfield was injured. I don't recall exactly how long it lasted either time, but I assume the first incident was at least a couple months since Hetfield had broken his wrist while skateboarding. I know there have been other similar situations, but I can't recall any specifically at this point.
It was John Marshall, which was cool because I was a big Metal Church fan. Saw Marshall play with them in '92 on the GnR tour.
That said, I think it depends on the band and the member who is being replaced. For most bands, having a replacement singer wouldn't fly. For me personally, I'd be pissed if DT substituted some no-name for John Myung (unless I knew about it before buying tickets).
I picked Larue because he had already played with JP and MP. I think if it came to that, fans would be forgiving.
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The first time in my life I watched DT live I expected Kevin Moore and got Derek Sherinian. I really didn't know what had happened.
It was weird, but I still had a blast.
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Not sure this is a terribly new thing. Metallica had a a roadie fill in twice on rhythm guitar when James Hetfield was injured. I don't recall exactly how long it lasted either time, but I assume the first incident was at least a couple months since Hetfield had broken his wrist while skateboarding. I know there have been other similar situations, but I can't recall any specifically at this point.
It was John Marshall, which was cool because I was a big Metal Church fan. Saw Marshall play with them in '92 on the GnR tour.
After writing several landmark Supreme Court opinions, Marshall filled in for Hetfield in July and August 1986, after Hetfield broke his wrist while skateboarding. At that time, he wasn't yet with Metal Church. I was never a MC fan, but I suspect the fill-in gig with Metallica helped him land that job. I believe his time with the band in '92 was shorter because of the nature of Hetfield's injury.
That said, I think it depends on the band and the member who is being replaced. For most bands, having a replacement singer wouldn't fly. For me personally, I'd be pissed if DT substituted some no-name for John Myung (unless I knew about it before buying tickets).
I picked Larue because he had already played with JP and MP. I think if it came to that, fans would be forgiving.
I wasn't specifically commenting on Dave Larue (although I've never heard of him). Unless it was Geddy Lee or Steve Harris filling in, not having JM playing with DT would seriously piss me off. I'd rather have the concert postponed.
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I just wished the new QR album would come earlier than 2019. Is there an exact date for the release of the album?
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This conversation needs its own thread because I think the discussion has merit. I am too lazy to start one though.
And I had never heard of this Larue guy until Flying Colors.
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This conversation needs its own thread because I think the discussion has merit. I am too lazy to start one though.
And I had never heard of this Larue guy until Flying Colors.
I don't remember which tour but I think it was the 2nd leg of the Scenes tour, The Dixie Dregs opened for DT and Dave was on bass. So, if you happened to catch DT during that time you might have seen Dave.
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This conversation needs its own thread because I think the discussion has merit. I am too lazy to start one though.
And I had never heard of this Larue guy until Flying Colors.
I don't remember which tour but I think it was the 2nd leg of the Scenes tour, The Dixie Dregs opened for DT and Dave was on bass. So, if you happened to catch DT during that time you might have seen Dave.
Right, and he was in JP's G3 band with MP.
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After writing several landmark Supreme Court opinions, Marshall filled in for Hetfield in July and August 1986, after Hetfield broke his wrist while skateboarding. At that time, he wasn't yet with Metal Church. I was never a MC fan, but I suspect the fill-in gig with Metallica helped him land that job. I believe his time with the band in '92 was shorter because of the nature of Hetfield's injury.
:lol
Right. He was a roadie who then went onto play with Metal Church.
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I keep opening this thread hoping for new album info :emo:
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This conversation needs its own thread because I think the discussion has merit. I am too lazy to start one though.
And I had never heard of this Larue guy until Flying Colors.
I don't remember which tour but I think it was the 2nd leg of the Scenes tour, The Dixie Dregs opened for DT and Dave was on bass. So, if you happened to catch DT during that time you might have seen Dave.
Right, and he was in JP's G3 band with MP.
He is STILL in JP's G3 band. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XB7McL08YI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-r4bN85eYE
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Regarding Queensryche playing without key members (for whatever reason) that started recently (in the last six or seven years). The first time I noticed it was when Ed missed an entire gig or two, so they literally played without him, without a bass player. People said he was sick. They didn't want to cancel the gigs, so they just went on with the show (I believe it was festival dates in Europe).
As for members departing, to me, it has become standard practice. Very few bands refuse to perform when there's money to be made. They just move on. I don't like it personally, but I understand it. THese days, touring is where the money is. Not album sales. Back in the 80s and early 90s, it was flip-flopped. You made more on the records. So keeping touring commitments and using fill-in members is something to be expected.
The whole Rockenfield thing is a complete joke. The guy is not on parental leave. He may have been the first few months, but anyone believing that horseshit now, hit me up via PM. I have a couple of business deals for you. :lol Quite simply, Scott is gone, did not record drums on the new record (Todd did), and QR is just not saying it, because they know it'd damage their "brand" further if Scott was gone. And the whole thing is likely (not positive, but most likely) tied up in legalities (which is another reason they aren't saying anything).
So is it really Queensryche with only Michael and Eddie left? Yes...and no. It just depends on what you're comfortable with. For me, what I considered "Queensryche" changed as time went on. When Chris first left, I was totally gung-ho on Kelly Gray. When the Live Evolution tour ended, and the reunion with Chris faltered a couple years later, I still considered the band to be the band. It wasn't until MC II, when I found out that none of the remaining original lineup musicians contributed much of anything to Mindcrime II that I started calling it Tateryche. When Todd joined, for a while I felt like "QUEENSRYCHE" or at least the ideals of the band were back - honesty, integrity, the dreaded "thinking man's metal" tag, etc. Then that was shattered by the realities of who people are. SImply put, I fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. :lol
Nowadays, to me, what tours as Queensryche is in no way, shape, or form, the band I became a fan of. And truth be told, that band died when Chris left. He and Geoff, and in the metal years, Michael, were the heart, soul, and balls of the band. And while Ed Jackson is a capable songwriter (really dig his stuff), and Michael has stepped up once again, it's not Queensryche without the guys that made the band distinct. And now, particularly without Rockenfield, who brought his own distinct flair that was influenced highly by Peart, the groove and feel of the band is off as well.
But that's all personal taste, ya know? If people feel like it says Queensryche, and it is Queensryche, who am I to tell them it isn't. For them it is.
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I'm not sure what I think about whether the band with some other drummer is "Queensryche." No, it's not the same band. Not remotely. But the thing for me is, there was a process that was undergone in the last decade or so that, to me, made the last iteration of the band at least feel genuine. Oddly enough, it started with Slater helming Mindcrime II and American Soldier, and him sort of finding the formula to unlocking what it was that made Queensryche's sound. Obviously, they still went way, WAY off the rails from there and were anything but the heart of Queensryche. But I think there were seeds there that helped shape the next stage of the band after replacing Tate. Say what you will about Parker and Todd, but both are really solid musicians, both have the chops to bring a semblance of the classical Queensryche vibe, and both were fans of the original band. The Return to History tour and the commitment to really try to BE Queensryche really made them into something authentic to me. No, it wasn't the original band. But the guys were committed to sounding like what fans liked about the original lineup, and bringing a new creative flair to it. That sold me just fine. I was happy to hear it.
But there is only so far you can go without losing that authenticity. Ed and Scott are the backbone of the band. Chris and Geoff were the creativity. But without that groove and backbone brought by that specific rhythm section, I just don't know. Time will tell, but I am not optimistic about how I will feel about them moving forward. It just feels like one too many missing pieces.
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Sorry if this has been discussed before, but have they confirmed Todd recorded drums for the album? I assumed Casey would do it, since he’s been with them for a while now.
About Mike Stone “temporarily” replacing Parker, we know it’s just for a few shows, but, considering this band’s history of continually changing members, do you guys think he’ll come back as a full time member in the not so distant future?
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Sorry if this has been discussed before, but have they confirmed Todd recorded drums for the album? I assumed Casey would do it, since he’s been with them for a while now.
About Mike Stone “temporarily” replacing Parker, we know it’s just for a few shows, but, considering this band’s history of continually changing members, do you guys think he’ll come back as a full time member in the not so distant future?
Not officially, but he slipped on FB awhile back, and before he deleted it, people figured it out. He basically said that it wasn't Casey, and it wasn't a session guy. Which leaves Scott, or himself. And Scott hasn't done anything with them. So, no, not officially stated, but they wouldn't do that anyway, in fear people would bail on them.
As for Stone, I think if the band reunites with Tate, Stone will. If they don't, then Parker will stay.
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Sorry if this has been discussed before, but have they confirmed Todd recorded drums for the album? I assumed Casey would do it, since he’s been with them for a while now.
About Mike Stone “temporarily” replacing Parker, we know it’s just for a few shows, but, considering this band’s history of continually changing members, do you guys think he’ll come back as a full time member in the not so distant future?
Not officially, but he slipped on FB awhile back, and before he deleted it, people figured it out. He basically said that it wasn't Casey, and it wasn't a session guy. Which leaves Scott, or himself. And Scott hasn't done anything with them. So, no, not officially stated, but they wouldn't do that anyway, in fear people would bail on them.
As for Stone, I think if the band reunites with Tate, Stone will. If they don't, then Parker will stay.
Don't know how I feel about Todd being the singer and studio drummer of QR. The way I see it, Scott is out and they got a killer new drummer (Casey). Even though he's "just" a touring member, he could track for the album and do a much better job than Todd, imo. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
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Sorry if this has been discussed before, but have they confirmed Todd recorded drums for the album? I assumed Casey would do it, since he’s been with them for a while now.
No, it's just been inferred. The whole Rockenfield situation seems very peculiar so who knows what's going on... the least worst scenario with Todd doing the drums, personally speaking, is if he consulted with Rockenfield over the arrangements but just performed them himself.
It could be worse. They could have the comedy midi drums of Mindcrime II back!
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Don't know how I feel about Todd being the singer and studio drummer of QR. The way I see it, Scott is out and they got a killer new drummer (Casey). Even though he's "just" a touring member, he could track for the album and do a much better job than Todd, imo. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Not that I agree with Todd doing the drums (Scott should), but how do you know Casey would do a better job than Todd? After all, Todd was a drummer first and foremost, and becoming a lead vocalist happened later for him. Had being a full-time vocalist not been so taxing, I could easily imagine Todd just taking over the drum throne for Scott. Of course, I'm not familiar with Todd or Casey's drumming skills, but I wouldn't automatically dismiss Todd's abilities just because he happens to be the vocalist (and not the drummer) in the band.
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if Todd wants to drum, let him drum. I'd rather they find a new singer anyway.
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It's not about Todd drumming - if he wants to play drums on the albums and utilize a touring drummer, that's cool. It's about the band attempting to pull the wool over the fans' eyes. They haven't really been honest about Scott from the get-go, and they're being really coy about who played on the album. They know the fans won't be happy if they admit that Scott isn't in the band and didn't play on the album. The longer this goes on, the more the fans figure out that they're being fleeced, which makes the band look bad.
If Scott's parental leave expanded into something further, he and the band should have put out a statement confirming it and then moving on. Let the chips fall where they may with the fans. Some will walk away, some will respect the band's honesty. Instead of being honest with the fans, they've chosen to hide whatever is going on.
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Todd is drumming a bit here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCY2DFzS7og. Something DT related in the end ;)
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Don't know how I feel about Todd being the singer and studio drummer of QR. The way I see it, Scott is out and they got a killer new drummer (Casey). Even though he's "just" a touring member, he could track for the album and do a much better job than Todd, imo. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Not that I agree with Todd doing the drums (Scott should), but how do you know Casey would do a better job than Todd? After all, Todd was a drummer first and foremost, and becoming a lead vocalist happened later for him. Had being a full-time vocalist not been so taxing, I could easily imagine Todd just taking over the drum throne for Scott. Of course, I'm not familiar with Todd or Casey's drumming skills, but I wouldn't automatically dismiss Todd's abilities just because he happens to be the vocalist (and not the drummer) in the band.
But was Todd known for being a drummer way before he started singing for QR or Crimson Glory? It’s not like he’s Nick D’Virgilio, who had a fantastic drumming career before Neal left SB and he had to take on vocal duties. And I’m not trying to say he isn’t a good drummer or anything like that, I’m just saying why not let your touring drummer, a guy who has a professional drumming career and someone who played, recorded and toured with Kamelot for 20+ years, do the drumming? He certainly has waaay more experience and know how than Todd, and that doesn’t take anything away from him, imo. He’s been hired as the singer of QR (and he’s fantastic at it), nobody expects him to take on drumming duties as well.
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Why pay a session musician when you have someone able to play drums in your band? :lol
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Don't know how I feel about Todd being the singer and studio drummer of QR. The way I see it, Scott is out and they got a killer new drummer (Casey). Even though he's "just" a touring member, he could track for the album and do a much better job than Todd, imo. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Not that I agree with Todd doing the drums (Scott should), but how do you know Casey would do a better job than Todd? After all, Todd was a drummer first and foremost, and becoming a lead vocalist happened later for him. Had being a full-time vocalist not been so taxing, I could easily imagine Todd just taking over the drum throne for Scott. Of course, I'm not familiar with Todd or Casey's drumming skills, but I wouldn't automatically dismiss Todd's abilities just because he happens to be the vocalist (and not the drummer) in the band.
But was Todd known for being a drummer way before he started singing for QR or Crimson Glory? It’s not like he’s Nick D’Virgilio, who had a fantastic drumming career before Neal left SB and he had to take on vocal duties. And I’m not trying to say he isn’t a good drummer or anything like that, I’m just saying why not let your touring drummer, a guy who has a professional drumming career and someone who played, recorded and toured with Kamelot for 20+ years, do the drumming? He certainly has waaay more experience and know how than Todd, and that doesn’t take anything away from him, imo. He’s been hired as the singer of QR (and he’s fantastic at it), nobody expects him to take on drumming duties as well.
They'd have to pay Casey for the session work. Todd did it for free. MirrorMask has it completely right.
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That's a valid point :laugh: :lol
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A buddy sent me the video preview clip from the new record. It's very short, just for pledge members.
Honestly, it sounds really cool, from the limited bit that's on there. Pretty heavy. But it honestly doesn't sound like Queensryche (again, it was pretty short, so don't read much into that). The one thing I'll say though, is that if you are familiar with Rockenfield's style, and are a hardcore, you can tell he is not drumming.
But for those who are a fan of QR in its current form, at first listen, its a natural extension of Condition Human into heavier territory. (Again, it was just a short clip, but sounded promising.)
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...its a natural extension of Condition Human into heavier territory.
It kinda makes me mad to have to say this, but that description alone really appeals to me.
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It was like a 20 second sample, bosk. LOL. But it was really good, I'll give it that. And you know my feelings about current QR. But as far as 20 second samples go, it was cool, and fans of Condition Human would be pleased with the sample.
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A furthering of Condition Human sounds great, but..........
I'm growing tired of the smoke and mirrors. For years, Tate and his wife were apparently doing things that members of the band had no idea of. Finances, non-QR people playing on the records, etc. That interview where Parker mentions an album surprised him because he never heard a bunch of the music on it comes to mind.
Now it sort of feels like QR is Tate and the fans are QR. I know I am being very general here but hopefully you get where I am coming from. Unless there is some legal thing going on that we don't know about. You guys aren't Tool, and it's not even cute with Tool.
I don't know. Just be open and honest with the fans.
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I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, believe me. It is part of the reason I no longer support current QR by not going to their shows or buying records. (Among other reasons.)
Everything we complained about from say 2003-2012 is back again, except the new music is more along the lines of what was expected from Queensryche. But the same bad decisions, same smoke and mirrors, etc., are still there. And in some ways, the smoke and mirrors are worse when it comes to various things about the band. :lol
My advice - just enjoy the tunes, and ignore the rest. Trust me. In some ways, I am thankful and fortunate for the access I had for a few years. Made some cool memories, and got to experience some things. But truth be told, I wish I never had gotten involved, nor met some of the people in their camp. So go enjoy the tunes, and let the rest go. All the rest is BS you don't need. :)
I hang in these days more out of morbid curiosity because I know how it all works behind the scenes and the personalities involved. But outside of the original lineup, which to me IS Queensryche, and still my favorite band and I enjoy listening to that catalog as much as I ever did (and still enjoy documenting their history), I simply just enjoy the music from the post-Chris years where I can, and mostly ignore anything from 2011-present.
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QR is the perfect example why I try not to get too interested and invested in the musicians in a band I like.
Of course I'm curious and read interviews and such but I try, as good as I can, to separate the personalities from the music they are making. For a long time, when I was still young and naive, I just assumed, that if you write and play music that moves me, you had to be a good person. Then I realized that some of my "idols" are simply assholes and that was a big letdown and has seriously tainted my enjoyment of some of the music I liked.
Once I came to accept that musicians are just normal people with all their egos and problems and what not, I could separate their behaviour from their music and could enjoy it once more. But when you get reminded time and time again that all's not right, it gets harder.
In the end the music matters and if QR put out a killer record, I will enjoy it regardless of who played what. But I'm inclined to be less forgiving if the music is subpar than with a band that isn't surrounded with all that drama.
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A furthering of Condition Human sounds great, but..........
I'm growing tired of the smoke and mirrors.
I wouldn't call it smoke and mirrors, it's just being evasive. As to why it's happening I have no clue. I'd prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt that it's some weird legal issue they're trying to work around. I mean, if they're trying to mollify the fanbase that all is well behind the scenes then they've managed to get it hopelessly wrong so I've got to assume it's more complicated than "yes, he's left the band but we want to pretend he hasn't lest people think we're not really QR anymore".
It wouldn't be the first QR record where Rockenfield's drumming wasn't present. Mindrime II definitely wasn't, albeit a few of the tracks may have been programmed based on his arrangements, and I'm not convinced about American Soldier (though I find that such a chore to listen to that's only a half formed opinion that may be a result of the mix rather than the arrangements).
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I wouldn't call it smoke and mirrors, it's just being evasive. As to why it's happening I have no clue. I'd prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt that it's some weird legal issue they're trying to work around. I mean, if they're trying to mollify the fanbase that all is well behind the scenes then they've managed to get it hopelessly wrong so I've got to assume it's more complicated than "yes, he's left the band but we want to pretend he hasn't lest people think we're not really QR anymore".
It wouldn't be the first QR record where Rockenfield's drumming wasn't present. Mindrime II definitely wasn't, albeit a few of the tracks may have been programmed based on his arrangements, and I'm not convinced about American Soldier (though I find that such a chore to listen to that's only a half formed opinion that may be a result of the mix rather than the arrangements).
Yeah, I guess "evasive" is a better description for the current stuff with Rockenfield. But regardless, they aren't being forthcoming because they are worried about Rockenfield not being on the album, and what that will do to fan reception on the new record.
You're right, Mindcrime II didn't have Scott drumming. It WAS his arrangements (for the most part). Here's how that went down, according to Jason Slater - Scott recorded drums in his (Rockenfield's) home studio, and when Jason got the tracks, they were basically unusable. So Jason, bit by bit, reconstructed Scott's parts on midi, and then called in a drummer friend of his (I forget his name) to play some stuff he couldn't program. That's how MC II went down. But NO ONE knew that until way after the fact, and at that time, Tate was still in the band.
Now we're looking at a Tate-less band, and now the prospect of not having Scott on the record at all, leaving two original members, and yeah, the band is likely worried about how that will impact fan reception and the first week chart numbers of the record. Rightly so, they should be concerned, because that first week is always huge, and a poor week might mean they get dropped.
Re: American Soldier -- that was Scott, completely. No midi or fill-in drummers. I've asked both Jason and Scott, multiple times myself. That's all Scott.
Going back to the Rockenfield discussion of what is going on now, what I heard, and I've said this before, is that he took a hiatus for his son for a few months, and then reconnected with Tate when Tate wrote something in support of Scott while Scott was going through a divorce last year. That led to Scott doing behind the scenes stuff with Tate (what, I'm not sure), and Rockenfield kept staying away from QR (he did this in the past, staying away from the band, for a long period in late 2013, if I remember right). Whether all this will result in Scott gigging with Tate, I don't know. I don't think Tate can afford to bring Rockenfield out on the road, which is why it didn't happen. What I do know is, is that Rockenfield got very pissed when he found out QR recorded a record without him, and rumor had it he was going out of his way to prevent it from coming out (which I assume is why the record's release date was pushed from this fall, to early next year, despite what the band has said publicly). There's some other stuff that went on too that's not necessary to add, but you get the point -- shit has gone down.
But, QR has just released that minute sample of the new record to its pledge people, and so new music IS on its way from the La Torre-fronted QR. But they are still being "evasive" when it comes to the drummer, most likely because the above situation has not been resolved, and there likely are some legalities associated with that.
My complete guess is, the band and Scott are at odds regarding him leaving, money owed, and trying to restructure in such a way that they can continue on and not lose face, and avoid paying Scott a huge settlement (because they still owe Tate too, which I know for a fact). And that could ultimately end up that to make it so everyone gets paid, QR with Tate, Rockenfield, Eddie, and Michael reunited, so that all this "settlement payout" is done with, and "Queensryche" with the four remaining original members can maximize the little time they have left to make decent cash before calling it a day. Again, that is all speculation.
But that's what I think. Take from it what you want, believe it or not. But that's what I know, and what I believe based on what I know, and the personalities involved.
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Sam, that is amazing insight and I appreciate your posts on this.
I just want to say that this is so ugly. You'd think this band sold their soul for their early days because I'm not aware of any other band that has gone this nuclear.
I'm good through Empire, and while many include PL, but this band's first handful of albums are so incredible, that they have retained as many fans as they have through the clusterfuck of a second half of a career. It's sad, actually.
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I really don’t think them re-uniting with Tate would give them any kind of bump. The records put out with Tate, post Promised Land (and that itself was a step down from what came before imo) ranged from nothing special to downright awful. It was inferred that this was largely due to Tate not wanting to go back to their trademark sound and not even wanting to play the classic stuff live (which he can no longer sing). Because I loved the band so much, I stuck with them through all those bad albums. I nearly gave up a couple of times but then they put up a review saying MC2 was the best album since MC1 and I gave it a chance, it wasn’t! Similar thing with American Soldier, I was once again led to believe it was a return to form so I bought it and it wasn’t. At that point, the whole fool me once thing kicked in and I said never again. I did see Queensr˙che live by chance after that as they opened for Judas Priest and were terrible.
Fast forward to Todd joining and a promise that this would be a return to the more classic Queensr˙che sound. I bought the first record and it was easily their best since PL, I enjoyed it a lot, despite the awful mix which means I struggle to listen on headphones as it gives me a headache. Condition Human had a much better mix (no headaches) but the songs, whilst still decent, weren’t quite as good as the s/t. Still enjoyed it though. I also got to see them live with Todd and it was night and day compared to later Tate tours, Todd sounded incredible singing the classic material and there was much more energy on stage (not Iron Maiden levels obviously but more than had been there previously)
I had been looking forward to the new album but some of the comments on here are dampening my enthusiasm a little as is the Rockenfield situation. I’m not a drummer or even a huge drumming fan but Rockenfield is one of those rare drummers who does have a distinctive style and this, in turn, is part of what gives Queensr˙che their distinctive sound. He will be missed if he’s not on the record but it makes things worse that we’re being misled it seems about him still being in the band.
Still, even though my enthusiasm is suitably dampened a little, if it were announced that Tate was back in the band and they were moving forward on a new album and tour with him, I would instantly bail on the band. It would not excite me even in the slightest to see him back even as someone who loved his work with the band during their classic era. Todd has breathed some new life into a band that was dead to me, to kick him out and go back to Tate would be an absolute disaster, I think they’d actually sell less tickets for that “reunion” than just carrying on as they are. If DeGarmo was in tow and it was the full original lineup then maybe you’d see a bump but Tate alone would not do this, I think it would have the opposite effect.
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I really don’t think them re-uniting with Tate would give them any kind of bump.
A full performance of Operation Mindcrime could, but ironically they've done that so many times that everyone interested has seen it and it's something, by now, that can be easily overlooked.
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I wish the capitalized on their new found integrity several years ago when they brought in Todd. The people were excited about the band again and the last two albums were their best received releases since Promised land. However, it feels like the ship has sailed. They fought so hard to build the band from scratch and then completely gave up after Condition: Human. They might as well call it quits all together at this point.
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So Rockenfield took a time-out and now he's pissed that they recorded without him? I can't hardly believe that they didn't at least ask him and if he turned it down he got no reason to complain. Or did they just assume he wouldn't want to be back and never told him they were entering the studio? As I said, I find that hard to believe.
And if Tate can't afford to bring Rockenfield on the road, surely leaving current QR generates even less income.
But I really shouldn't care anymore.
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Well said.
;D
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Well said.
;D
Yeah, I screwed that one up :lol
I was trying to quote the part of his post that said "But I really shouldn't care anymore."
Apparently, I put as much effort into the quote as this band has put into restoring their legacy...
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I wish the capitalized on their new found integrity several years ago when they brought in Todd. The people were excited about the band again and the last two albums were their best received releases since Promised land. However, it feels like the ship has sailed. They fought so hard to build the band from scratch and then completely gave up after Condition: Human. They might as well call it quits all together at this point.
Well, I'm not sure I would personally call it "integrity." But they did have momentum, which they let die by continuing the "Return to History" stuff once their debut record was released. As they were told by more than a few people, they should have hit the road HARD, and brought a set that featured all, or most of that record, night after night. Instead, they played a lot of the classics, and did fly-in casino dates. They tried to balance the nice pay day with the fly-in hair metal fests with metal credibility. And while I get what they were trying to do, it wasn't the right move. They needed long term credibility with the metal people. And instead, they just let their new music be an afterthought.
And sadly, that's what they've become now for many, an afterthought.
I really don’t think them re-uniting with Tate would give them any kind of bump.
Again, promoters are more interested in the original voice and band reunited, than the quality of performance. A mostly reunited QR with four original guys will sell more tickets (and generate a higher guarantee from promoters) than a band with two original guys with a replacement singer. It just will. I'm not arguing which singer is better with this. It's purely money and business driven. And this is all about cashing in.
I totally appreciate where you're coming from, but unfortunately, this is less about what may be best artistically, and more about what makes the most sense financially.
Again, mostly just my own speculation based on some facts I know, and knowing the personalities involved. What actually happens remains to be seen.
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And **IF** the guys had taken the "grassroots" route and built themselves on being an actual band again, I would say that the long term cash in would be in maintaining your integrity and doubling down on Todd.
But in the post-CH era, they have yet to show that they are willing to do that.
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And **IF** the guys had taken the "grassroots" route and built themselves on being an actual band again, I would say that the long term cash in would be in maintaining your integrity and doubling down on Todd.
But in the post-CH era, they have yet to show that they are willing to do that.
To play devil's advocate though, I see why they haven't. Yes, that was suggested to them (I did, and a bunch of smarter and more influential people than me all told them that). But the issue they had was...money. They had to pay Tate (who they still owe probably a third of what the settlement number is), which required bigger pay days. But as soon as they started gigging, it got even more competitive out on the road, and they saw their guarantees going down from promoters. So not only could they barely afford to sustain themselves, they also had to pay Tate. So I get why they do the casino gigs and the festivals, and the fly-ins. They are usually decent pay days. As opposed to slugging it out on a bus, on the road, for 150 gigs. That doesn't pay, and thats why their headline (now co-headline) dates are very restricted.
So I get it. I honestly do. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Trust me, I completely understand the fan opinion of "NO WAY THEY CAN REUNITE WITH TATE." I get it, honestly. And truth be told, (and this is just my own opinion) I don't think they want to. But they aren't stupid. Contrary to some opinion, yes, promoters WOULD pay more with a reunited four original members than they would for the current QR. Maybe not long term, but for touring on a record (Empire) on a milestone (30th anniversary), that is sure to draw more fans than usual? Absolutely promoters would pay more. And that's why I think it is going to happen (aside from the rest of the things I've said earlier).
And if that reunion of the remaining original four DOES NOT happen, both entities (Tate's band and current QR) will tour on Empire, creating competition again in the marketplace. Why? Because promoters are more interested in nostalgia stuff that they feel will bring in more people. So, for QR, it's a complete no-brainer that you bring back Tate and smooth it all over with Rockenfield. If you do that, QR doesn't need to pay Tate the settlement money he is owed, and they'll make more as a band, together, than they would apart. Throw the integrity and "right thing" out the window, and think only about money. That's what they'll follow. Just my .02.
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The last couple of days I've listened to the S/T and Condition Human. Some great songs there.
Kind of sucks about the whole Rockenfeld situation whether he leaves or not, whether its due to the divorce (with his wife) settlement, or other issues. I hope he can play again with the current QR lineup.
Sucks that we have to wait until 2019 for the new material to come out.
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Well, I've lost almost all respect for them. Again. But at the very least, we got two really great albums from a band that was, for all intents and purposes, dead. So there is always that. If we get more, that's great. If not, at least we have what we have.
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Well, I've lost almost all respect for them. Again. But at the very least, we got two really great albums from a band that was, for all intents and purposes, dead. So there is always that. If we get more, that's great. If not, at least we have what we have.
Amen to that.
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They should have just ditched the Queensryche name and sell it to tate while building their brand as Rising West.
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They should have just ditched the Queensryche name and sell it to tate while building their brand as Rising West.
Back in 2012, after the Brazil incident, but before they fired Tate, they considered just gigging with La Torre as Rising West. But promoters wouldn't pony up enough cash to make it work, as the name had no brand value. Queensryche did, and the promoters wanted that, which is why they fought to keep it (among other reasons, obviously).
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There is no way on god's clean earth this band (or Tate's) will ever do anything remotely worthy of their glory-days-given fame ever again. Flush and forget.
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And **IF** the guys had taken the "grassroots" route and built themselves on being an actual band again, I would say that the long term cash in would be in maintaining your integrity and doubling down on Todd.
But in the post-CH era, they have yet to show that they are willing to do that.
To play devil's advocate though, I see why they haven't. Yes, that was suggested to them (I did, and a bunch of smarter and more influential people than me all told them that). But the issue they had was...money. They had to pay Tate (who they still owe probably a third of what the settlement number is), which required bigger pay days. But as soon as they started gigging, it got even more competitive out on the road, and they saw their guarantees going down from promoters. So not only could they barely afford to sustain themselves, they also had to pay Tate. So I get why they do the casino gigs and the festivals, and the fly-ins. They are usually decent pay days. As opposed to slugging it out on a bus, on the road, for 150 gigs. That doesn't pay, and thats why their headline (now co-headline) dates are very restricted.
So I get it. I honestly do. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Trust me, I completely understand the fan opinion of "NO WAY THEY CAN REUNITE WITH TATE." I get it, honestly. And truth be told, (and this is just my own opinion) I don't think they want to. But they aren't stupid. Contrary to some opinion, yes, promoters WOULD pay more with a reunited four original members than they would for the current QR. Maybe not long term, but for touring on a record (Empire) on a milestone (30th anniversary), that is sure to draw more fans than usual? Absolutely promoters would pay more. And that's why I think it is going to happen (aside from the rest of the things I've said earlier).
And if that reunion of the remaining original four DOES NOT happen, both entities (Tate's band and current QR) will tour on Empire, creating competition again in the marketplace. Why? Because promoters are more interested in nostalgia stuff that they feel will bring in more people. So, for QR, it's a complete no-brainer that you bring back Tate and smooth it all over with Rockenfield. If you do that, QR doesn't need to pay Tate the settlement money he is owed, and they'll make more as a band, together, than they would apart. Throw the integrity and "right thing" out the window, and think only about money. That's what they'll follow. Just my .02.
If promoters were falling over themselves to book Queensr˙che when Tate was there and he was such a cash cow, why did they get rid of him in the first place? I’d be very surprised if many ticket buying fans are clamouring for Tate’s return. I have no inside information to back that up obviously, just a feeling based on what I see online. Don’t get the impression he is missed at all.
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If promoters were falling over themselves to book Queensr˙che when Tate was there and he was such a cash cow, why did they get rid of him in the first place? I’d be very surprised if many ticket buying fans are clamouring for Tate’s return.
And nothing in the post you quoted even remotely said that, so there is no need to set up a straw man for you to knock down.
Whether the band ever does reunite with Tate or not, as Samsara said, there would likely be a MUCH higher demand for a Mindcrime and/or Empire-based reunion tour with Tate than there is now with the current iteration of the band having squandered the enthusiasm and goodwill they had built up.
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Yes, I exaggerated a little for effect, but the thrust of the quoted post was that promoters would be more interested in booking QR with Tate involved as it’s closer to the original line-up. All I was saying was, if that is the case, why go to all the trouble (and we all saw how much trouble!) of getting shut of him in the first place?
Like I said, whilst it is normally the case with bands that people would rather see original members, I don’t see a clamour amongst fans for a Tate return so I don’t think this is as much of a sure thing as the poster but he seems to have some inside knowledge so he may be right. I’d personally much rather see them stick with the singer they have and do the classic albums with a guy who can sing them. I would never buy a ticket to watch them do classic albums with Tate after seeing the horrible Mindcrime 1 & 2 shows.
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Yes, I exaggerated a little for effect, but the thrust of the quoted post was that promoters would be more interested in booking QR with Tate involved as it’s closer to the original line-up. All I was saying was, if that is the case, why go to all the trouble (and we all saw how much trouble!) of getting shut of him in the first place?
Like I said, whilst it is normally the case with bands that people would rather see original members, I don’t see a clamour amongst fans for a Tate return so I don’t think this is as much of a sure thing as the poster but he seems to have some inside knowledge so he may be right. I’d personally much rather see them stick with the singer they have and do the classic albums with a guy who can sing them. I would never buy a ticket to watch them do classic albums with Tate after seeing the horrible Mindcrime 1 & 2 shows.
In 2012, Tate was taking over the band and had a plan in place to leave them high and dry (he attempted to sell the rights to Operation Mindcrime out from under the band and pocket the money for himself). His family had taken over the band's operations (wife was managing, daughter(s) involved in the fan club, etc.). He assaults the band in Brazil and is a general ass for the next two contractually obligated gigs. After so many years of dealing with him, they just said enough is enough.
But they never really capitalized on the momentum that they gained with hiring Todd - they barely played any new material from the albums with him, refused to tour heavily to promote those newer albums, didn't tour with bands that are their peers in the progressive/metal genres, and just played festival gigs with the likes of Jack Russell's Great White or Sebastian Bach, further digging themselves into nostalgia-land. So six years later, they're reduced to booking shows at theme parks, water parks, state fairs, and suburban neighborhood summer festivals and casinos.
The band has their die-hard fans that have embraced Todd and they also have a ton of casual fans that six years later, still don't really understand that Tate is out (or those that chose Tate's side in the split). Tate can bank heavily on his past and provide an average to good performance that general fans or his fans will cream themselves over simply because he is Geoff Tate. Look at Motley Crue - they reformed with Vince and went back to playing arenas and amphitheaters in the late 90's and 2000's now that they had their original lineup back, despite Vince being one of the worst live singers ever. Same goes for QR - if they can strike a deal with Tate, promoters will offer more money if they go out on tour compared to what they currently earn. Throw in a gimmick for playing Empire and the "QUEENSRYCHE REUNION!" and promoters might even throw in some extra cash.
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^What Grapp said. But to put it another way...
All I was saying was, if that is the case, why go to all the trouble (and we all saw how much trouble!) of getting shut of him in the first place?
Because at that time, it was the right move. Tate was stealing from them. He was running the band into the ground. And he had become abusive. Queensryche with Tate was a bust on every level for the rest of the guys. And the timing with Todd was perfect because there was a genuine buzz about what these guys could do with Todd.
I don’t see a clamour amongst fans for a Tate return so I don’t think this is as much of a sure thing as the poster...
There isn't a "clamour." That isn't the point. The point is, times have changed. As Grap said, they have squandered the momentum and painted themselves into a corner. Because of that, they are in a very poor position now when it comes to booking. With Tate, there isn't a ton of buzz either. But with him, there is more of a buzz among promoters and the "casual" fans who want to hear Mindcrime or the songs from Empire with the original singer. It is long-term suicide. But the short-term gains are better than what they have now. So while a reunion is far less than ideal, it may be the best opportunity for the guys in the band to make decent money at the moment.
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But you got to give Tate some credit. He kept touring (still does). He didn't let the buzz die even after sub-par (to say the least) studio album. He is still capitalizing on his name and the "ex-QR singer" tag. And Tate probably knows he needs to keep touring and grinding to earn some money.
To be honest, I initially thought this would have been the other way around, with Tate disappearing into oblivion and Queensryche doing to the heavy grinding.
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bosk1 and Grappler explained it all. Personally, I don't care what they do. I only follow what goes on because, like I said, I know the personalities in that whole mess, as I was tangentially involved with it all for awhile. I sit back and read the tea leaves, and post my opinion and predictions based on that. But bosk1 and Grappler explained it all perfectly (as I have myself many times over in the past), so I am not sure where the confusion is.
I hope that fans of this current iteration of QR enjoy what they are getting. I'm no longer a fan of the QR that exists today, but there's no denying that at least musically, they are in much better shape than they were since DeGarmo left in 1997. But as a fly on the wall, it says something when a band just caters to the casino circuit, playing all old songs, when you have essentially a new band with two full albums of new songs. They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. But the point is, on the TLT material, they didn't even really try. And that was disappointing to say the least.
There is a way to balance the need to cater to a nostalgia audience and still remain relevant with new material. QR just never did seem comfortable finding that balance playing live. It is a shame, because as someone here has said (I forget who it was), they really have some good songs on the last two records.
On a personal note (and bosk, I hope this OK to say), I know there's a certain sect of the posters here (and other places) that don't like the fact that I still opine on this board about what goes on with Queensryche. In fact, some obsess over the fact that I do, clipping what I say, and blatantly libel me on forums and social platforms which is, frankly, laughable, pathetic, and disturbing. But such is the Internet. All I can say is , as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I keep tabs on what QR does because unlike most people, I know the personalities involved and some of the tendencies. I am extremely glad I am no longer connected with them on the same level that I was, but I'm still intrigued about what they do, and always will be. And if that bothers anyone (and it really shouldn't, it's just my opinion based on some knowledge of who the people are), then that's your problem (not you directly PeterMc, just saying in general).
*edited because apparently I can't type this morning. :lol
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But you got to give Tate some credit. He kept touring (still does). He didn't let the buzz die even after sub-par (to say the least) studio album. He is still capitalizing on his name and the "ex-QR singer" tag. And Tate probably knows he needs to keep touring and grinding to earn some money.
Yeah, I know what you mean. He can't possibly be making very much. But he is apparently making enough to squeak by. And, more importantly, he is keeping his name out there and alive. And by grinding it out for such a long time and keeping his name out there for all this time, the mere passage of time has caused memories of past transgressions to fade. And while I think there were even a lot of people in the music biz that started to distance themselves from him, I think him staying out there and doing things like Avantasia, and having his solo band play at festivals where he could mingle with other bands, have caused that to subside as well. I have no idea whether Geoff is still the same Geoff that was robbing his bandmates blind and was physically and mentally abusive toward them. But he is savvy enough to have seen and done what he needed to do to survive as a musician.
But as a fly on the wall, it says something when a band just caters to the casino circuit, playing all old songs, when you have essentially a new band with two full albums of new songs. They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. But the point is, on the TLT material, they didn't even really try. And that was disappointing to say the least.
There is a way to balance the need to cater to a nostalgia audience and still remain relevant with new material. QR just never did seem comfortable finding that balance playing live. It is a shame, because as someone here has said (I forget who it was), they really have some good songs on the last two records.
Agreed. And even if they didn't want to go full-on and grind it out in the clubs and small theaters plugging the new material, there were still plenty of ways they could have found a happy medium. They could have done the fly-in festivals and casino shows. But in addition to that, simply get on a tour as an opener for a bigger metal act that will get you in front of who should be your fan base, like Maiden, Priest, or somebody. Or a package tour with another band or two of approximately equal stature where QR is a co-headliner or the final opener. And with those type of options, BUMP UP THE NUMBER OF TODD-ERA SONGS IN THE SET AND HYPE THEM UP. The band had solid material that translated well to a live setting and SHOULD go over fairly well with a metal audience. I mean, you can't help it if some people are only there to hear Mindcrime, Jet City Woman, and Silent Lucidity, and head for the bar or bathroom when something new is played. That is going to happen no matter what. But they could have picked up a following by doing this. And it wouldn't have taken grinding it out night-in and night-out on exhaustice club circuit tours. A solid package tour or opening slot tour once a year or every other year could have put them MILES ahead of where they are now, and it wouldn't have taken THAT MUCH out of them. They chose the lives of musicians. That comes with a toll. Either pay the price and do what you need to do, or bow out and get day jobs. But they chose the lazy way out, and I get why they did, but it cost them.
On a personal note (and bosk, I hope this OK to say), I know there's a certain sect of the posters here (and other places) that don't like the fact that I still opine on this board about what goes on with Queensryche. In fact, some obsess over the fact that I do, clipping what I say, and blatantly libel me on forums and social platforms which is, frankly, laughable, pathetic, and disturbing. But such is the Internet. All I can say is , as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I keep tabs on what QR does because unlike most people, I know the personalities involved and some of the tendencies. I am extremely glad I am no longer connected with them on the same level that I was, but I'm still intrigued about what they do, and always will be. And if that bothers anyone (and it really shouldn't, it's just my opinion based on some knowledge of who the people are), then that's your problem (not you directly PeterMc, just saying in general).
Yeah, it's fine. And without going too far off topic, I will just support that and say that I'll never understand what a pathetic place someone has to be in their life when they arrive at a place where they can justify in their own mind the type of behavior you describe. Stalking someone on the Internet, or in real life, slandering them, harassing them--you name it--is just pathetic. But, unfortunately, it has become the norm in this day and age. I know it has happened to you, it has happened to me, and it has happened to others we both know, simply because people out there aren't mature enough to respect a different point of view and think that an Internet disagreement is somehow tantamount to a capitol crime.
That said, my apologies to PeterMc, simply because this discussion arose out of your posts. As Samsara said, this isn't aimed at you.
Anyhow, rant over.
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Yeah, just to be clear, and I appreciate you saying nothing is aimed at me, I certainly have no problem with anything anyone has posted. Just looking to discuss the merits (or not) of bringing back Tate as not sure what’s changed since they kicked him out. I assume all the problems they had back then still apply if they take him back. We can agree to disagree but it’s fun to discuss first right?
Anyway, it’s really interesting to hear some of the inner workings of the band, as unsavoury as they may be, so don’t stop posting.
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Yeah, and I'm not sure he really has changed. But he is smart enough to know that he stands to make more money with them, and so it might be in his best interests to play it straight for at least a tour or two to put some money in everybody's pockets. And I think they also realize that they stand to make more money with him than without, and could put up with him for a tour or two. As a fan, I would hate it. But part of me expects that they will do it.
I guess I could stomach something like that if it is "done right," if there is such a thing. In other words, they could do their "deal with the devil" if they really feel they must. But have it spelled out in the legal documents that the agreement is only for a specified tour cycle, and that Tate is not back as a member of the band. Promote it as something like "Queensryche, with original vocalist, Geoff Tate, presents: An Evening of Operation: Mindcrime and Empire," or something like that. Then when it is over, get back to the business of making good music with Todd again. But I don't see that happening, honestly. If Tate were indeed to reunite with the band, hypothetically, I think he would try to leverage them to give him back enough control that he would basically be a full member again, either at the outset, or at the end of the tour after he played nice and showed them they could get along. But time will tell.
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This has me thinking (not because I give a crap about the band, but) I know being an artist is some percentage money and some percentage love of the art. I don't know anything about these guys so don't know where they individually fall on that spectrum. But I believe they are all mid/late 50s, which is let's say 10 years from a reasonable retirement age.
Why would guys approaching 60 keep their fledgling band alive? Is it for the love of the art? If so, I would think their output (albums/live shows) would be higher. If it is for the money, are they really pulling down enough income to make it all worthwhile? If your financial circumstances make it so you need to work for another 5-10 years before actually retiring, I would think keeping a band with a small following together by the skin of their teeth (especially with all the drama they are enduring) would not be a very optimal way to do it. Be a greeter at Wal-Mart, or like that guy from the Cosby Show and work at Trader Joe's. No traveling, being away from your family, putting up with promoters, agents, tour buses. Get home at 5p every night, kick your feet up with your wife, and watch NCIS
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Does anyone know what the situation is with the existing version of Queensr˙che and Mindcrime. I know it was in the exit agreement that they weren’t allowed to play the album in it’s entirety but how close are they allowed to go? Could they just leave out one track and play the rest or is there some actual guideline on what they can and can’t do?
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Hard to know without having seen the agreement. I do not believe anything more specific was ever said about that. We do know that they have played some individual songs from it without any problem. I would think they could play most of it, or even the whole thing out of sequence or something. But it wouldn't surprise me if they couldn't advertise a tour as being in support of it as an anniversary or something like that.
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Does anyone know what the situation is with the existing version of Queensr˙che and Mindcrime. I know it was in the exit agreement that they weren’t allowed to play the album in it’s entirety but how close are they allowed to go? Could they just leave out one track and play the rest or is there some actual guideline on what they can and can’t do?
Michael and Todd were asked about it in an interview with Prog Magazine and I think they said 6 is the maximum number of Mindcrime tracks that they're allowed to play in one show.
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Does anyone know what the situation is with the existing version of Queensr˙che and Mindcrime. I know it was in the exit agreement that they weren’t allowed to play the album in it’s entirety but how close are they allowed to go? Could they just leave out one track and play the rest or is there some actual guideline on what they can and can’t do?
Michael and Todd were asked about it in an interview with Prog Magazine and I think they said 6 is the maximum number of Mindcrime tracks that they're allowed to play in one show.
Seems reasonable. Wouldn't it be funny if all Tate required was "no complete Mindcrime performances" without going into details, and the band would play the whole thing skipping Waiting for 22? :lol
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That’s what everyone was saying at the time, could they just leave out one of the interludes and then they weren’t playing the whole album. Always thought there must be more of a strict restriction.
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They could easily do a 6-song run in the set of the below and a lot of fans would be happy:
Anarchy X
Revolution Calling
Operation: Mindcrime
Spreading the Disease
The Mission
Eyes of a Stranger
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Why would guys approaching 60 keep their fledgling band alive? Is it for the love of the art? If so, I would think their output (albums/live shows) would be higher. If it is for the money, are they really pulling down enough income to make it all worthwhile? If your financial circumstances make it so you need to work for another 5-10 years before actually retiring, I would think keeping a band with a small following together by the skin of their teeth (especially with all the drama they are enduring) would not be a very optimal way to do it. Be a greeter at Wal-Mart, or like that guy from the Cosby Show and work at Trader Joe's. No traveling, being away from your family, putting up with promoters, agents, tour buses. Get home at 5p every night, kick your feet up with your wife, and watch NCIS
This was told to me by friends of theirs they've all known (the original guys) since high school -- it is all they know. Honestly. They've been doing this since they were 17. And they were big stars in their mid-to-late 20s. I think some of the guys enjoy the "art" of making music, but others just consider it a necessity in order to tour (and frankly, it really isn't needed now, since they just play the nostalgia circuit). And yes, they are all distinctly aware of their age and the desire to retire in the next decade or so, but truth be told, not all of them handled their money right. Your examples of being a Wal-Mart greeter or working a regular job...egos come into play. A few of them have/had regular jobs recently. Todd is back to insurance adjusting a bit and doing odd jobs when not playing shows last I heard (mutual friend), Parker worked in motorcycle sales until just recently, and Michael had a gig in an industry as well (not sure about Ed).
But there is an element of pride and of ego that I doubt (totally opinion here) Michael, Ed and Scott want to let go of. They were legitimate rock stars for years, and got a taste of it again when MC II was financially successful 12 years ago. All those guys had lived lifestyles way above what they probably should have. Michael sold his big house once the kids left and downsized (smartly). But Ed and Scott -- probably not in the best shape in that regard. Tate, well, I won't even try to guess where he is at. Chris has done very well, and was the only one to be very smart with his money. Plus, Chris has the luxury of pulling in a nice "regular guy" pay day from his royalties. He's the only one in the band that makes a decent chunk each year on royalties (albeit with the industry the way it is, that is sure to decline). So that helps.
It'll be interesting to see where they go the next several years. Again, being in Queensryche, and more specifically, playing music, is all they've known their entire lives. And while some of them are more capable of others in terms of taking "real" jobs, I'd imagine that's not something any of them want to do if they can avoid it.
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Does anyone know what the situation is with the existing version of Queensr˙che and Mindcrime. I know it was in the exit agreement that they weren’t allowed to play the album in it’s entirety but how close are they allowed to go? Could they just leave out one track and play the rest or is there some actual guideline on what they can and can’t do?
Michael and Todd were asked about it in an interview with Prog Magazine and I think they said 6 is the maximum number of Mindcrime tracks that they're allowed to play in one show.
Seems reasonable. Wouldn't it be funny if all Tate required was "no complete Mindcrime performances" without going into details, and the band would play the whole thing skipping Waiting for 22? :lol
I think the most important factor for Tate is that he can use the Mindcrime gimmick in promotion and to pull people into his shows, though of course if QR started playing the whole album minus 1 or 2 interludes, word would get around pretty quickly in this era of social media and setlist.fm.
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What they should really do is just play the album with only the interludes :justjen
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Does anyone know what the situation is with the existing version of Queensr˙che and Mindcrime. I know it was in the exit agreement that they weren’t allowed to play the album in it’s entirety but how close are they allowed to go? Could they just leave out one track and play the rest or is there some actual guideline on what they can and can’t do?
Michael and Todd were asked about it in an interview with Prog Magazine and I think they said 6 is the maximum number of Mindcrime tracks that they're allowed to play in one show.
Seems reasonable. Wouldn't it be funny if all Tate required was "no complete Mindcrime performances" without going into details, and the band would play the whole thing skipping Waiting for 22? :lol
I think the most important factor for Tate is that he can use the Mindcrime gimmick in promotion and to pull people into his shows, though of course if QR started playing the whole album minus 1 or 2 interludes, word would get around pretty quickly in this era of social media and setlist.fm.
If I recall correctly they can only play a maximum number of songs from the album in any given show.
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I was listening to Empire this morning, One and Only in particular, and I was wondering wrote the lyrics for that song. I had always assumed that DeGarmo was the only one besides Tate who wrote lyrics aside from Wilton handling all of Deliverance from The Warning. Did Wilton have a hand in writing any other lyrics on the DeGarmo/Wilton songs, like Surgical Strike or One and Only?
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I was listening to Empire this morning, One and Only in particular, and I was wondering wrote the lyrics for that song. I had always assumed that DeGarmo was the only one besides Tate who wrote lyrics aside from Wilton handling all of Deliverance from The Warning. Did Wilton have a hand in writing any other lyrics on the DeGarmo/Wilton songs, like Surgical Strike or One and Only?
He did! He actually wrote the chorus for "Speak," and obviously that led to the song title. You mentioned Deliverance, and that was one where he did it all. He also wrote those lyrics to One and Only. Not sure if Chris assisted (he probably did a bit) with that, but Wilton wrote the lyrics. Not sure who was the lyricist on Surgical Strike though. My guess has always been that since DeGarmo and Wilton wrote it together, they probably both contributed lyrically.
As for post-DeGarmo stuff, I honestly don't know about Wilton's lyrical contributions at all. My guess is not much.
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I was listening to Empire this morning, One and Only in particular, and I was wondering wrote the lyrics for that song.
From https://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~bigoleg/queensryche/empire/features/k293.html
Chris admits another track, 'The One And Only', was written with a certain Kimberly DeGarmo in mind. "I wrote it not long after we got married last year, so yeah, I guess you could say that one was for her. I certainly didn't write it for anybody else," he giggles.
There's a bit more about the writing here too (quite an interesting link all round):
https://rateyourmusic.com/list/heldercardoso/queensryche_in_their_own_words/
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I was listening to Empire this morning, One and Only in particular, and I was wondering wrote the lyrics for that song.
From https://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~bigoleg/queensryche/empire/features/k293.html
Chris admits another track, 'The One And Only', was written with a certain Kimberly DeGarmo in mind. "I wrote it not long after we got married last year, so yeah, I guess you could say that one was for her. I certainly didn't write it for anybody else," he giggles.
There's a bit more about the writing here too (quite an interesting link all round):
https://rateyourmusic.com/list/heldercardoso/queensryche_in_their_own_words/
Thanks on that. Appreciate the correction. I knew the song was either about Kerry Lynn (Michael's wife) or Kimberly. I always assumed it was Michael, because of the year "back in 86..."
p.s. Helder put together a great page there with all the lyrical mentions. Nice find.
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I just made the pledgemusic for the new album, US$ 10 for the download. I did this much more to suport the band, because I know that probably the CD album version on sale on amazon etc (that I'll buy again) will have some aditional bonus tracks, like the last one... :facepalm:
Anyway, I've heard the 1:30 teaser from the new album and it sounds very in the style of Condition Human - which form me it's something excellent! Also, although it's a short clip and I know that it's not Scott playing, whoever recorded the drums sounds totally like him IMO :tup
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I just made the pledgemusic for the new album, US$ 10 for the download. I did this much more to suport the band, because I know that probably the CD album version on sale on amazon etc (that I'll buy again) will have some aditional bonus tracks, like the last one... :facepalm:
Anyway, I've heard the 1:30 teaser from the new album and it sounds very in the style of Condition Human - which form me it's something excellent! Also, although it's a short clip and I know that it's not Scott playing, whoever recorded the drums sounds totally like him IMO :tup
There's a teaser? :omg: :metal
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Yes! Only 1:30, but it is very good! By the way, from Facebook, the mixing is already done.
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Where is the teaser available? Link?
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I think the teaser is only available to people who have pledged money for the new album.
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Ah, okay.
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I think the teaser is only available to people who have pledged money for the new album.
Correct :tup
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By the way, from Facebook, the mixing is already done.
So... do you think we could expect it January? That'd be pretty awesome.
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I don't know, the band didn't commented on that on Face. This could be the case, if there wasn't this Scott situation that we really don't know if it will delay the release or not.
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the album is mastered according to TLT
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Where is the teaser available? Link?
I sent it to you already, remember?
The teaser is good. I mean, it sounds like a natural progression from Condition Human. Less like old school QR, more like you would expect a band with La Torre making his imprint on it. Remember, other than Wilton, none of the original songwriting core remains, so its going to be different as their new chemistry and sound develops Again, its only a minute sample, so there's not much to really evaluate at this point. But that's what it sounded like. The drums don't sound like Rockenfield (because they aren't), which takes a bit of the old school QR feel away even further. But I am sure if you're just evaluating it as a progressive-leaning hard rock/metal album, it'll deliver.
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I didn't take any screen shots of this as proof, but I saw on the band's official facebook page this morning that a person commented on a picture asking the usual "Where's Scott?" question. Another fan responded that "he left the band to join Geoff Tate."
The page deleted that response not long after. Whether it's true or not, I don't blame that page from scrubbing talk about Scott leaving to join Geoff, since they're very much still asserting that he's in the band. But it's interesting to see that people outside of this forum are talking about it now. If it is true, word is making it's way around...not just about him leaving, but that he specifically left to play with Geoff again.
Also, Todd's been active commenting on the band's page, batting fans that complain about Scott's absence. He recently compared the drumming on the album to pizzas. "Do you care which chef made your pizza, if the recipe is the same?" :lol I think the guy spinning pizzas at Dominos might make a different pizza than the guy at a higher-end, wood-fired pizza place. The same goes for musicians - it's all drumming, but one drummer vs. another can certainly change things. Look at when Lars was absent from some Metallica shows a while ago and they had Dave Lombardo and Joey Jordison substituting. Those songs sound a lot more powerful and the drumming certainly is faster with those guys behind the kit. And I love Lars and will defend him to the death, but there's no denying that Joey crushes him here.
Joey Jordison / Creeping Death drum cam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YTdmZaJrPY
I don't know if the band can get any more pathetic than this. The band really just needs to make an announcement - drop the press release and confirm the drummer situation and move on.
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:lol
Such a cluster fuck.
Said it before, will say it again -- unless Casey re-cut them (unlikely), Todd all but flat-out admitted he did the drums for the record on FB, but then he deleted the posts. (Something along the lines of him saying Casey didn't do them, and Scott didn't do them, and then winking when someone said that Todd did them, if I remember right.) So yeah, he's going to be sensitive about the drums because he's the one who did them. And if you listen to the pledge sample, you can tell its not Scott. The drumming sounds fine, and the album sounds promising in that 1:30 teaser, but you can tell the drums aren't Scott. And they are delaying that as long as possible to avoid any backlash in people ordering the record. Newsflash -- have those guys not learned ANYTHING about just coming clean at the outset? I think after the whole Tateryche era, they would have learned, particularly as people made it VERY clear to them what a mistake it was to try and fool fans. ::)
The sad thing is, the record may not sound like QR, but it likely will be good, given the songwriting chemistry between Ed, Todd, and Michael that has developed. But because they tried to play everything so close to the Vest about the drums, people are going to be turned off, and it will bite them in the ass.
In this fan's opinion, a band now with only two original members left, and only one that was an original writer (and not the majority writer after Mindcrime), is not really going to be that band, except in name. Particularly since the groove Scott has is (as anyone objectively listening to Casey drum, who is an OUTSTANDING drummer, can tell) very distinct and adds a sound to QR that is irreplaceable. QR with Casey is not the same feel as QR with Scott. Not Casey's fault, and he's done a great job, but its just not the same.
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Yup, yup and yup.
I have a feeling that I will really enjoy this album but, good god, they are doing everything they can to turn me off and make me lose interest. How can they be this careless about how they are handling this? Are they that blind to how the fans are seeing this?
Whatever, I will buy the album but I doubt I will bother paying big money to see them live anymore. Just didn't feel right last time.
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Yup, yup and yup.
I have a feeling that I will really enjoy this album but, good god, they are doing everything they can to turn me off and make me lose interest. How can they be this careless about how they are handling this? Are they that blind to how the fans are seeing this?
Whatever, I will buy the album but I doubt I will bother paying big money to see them live anymore. Just didn't feel right last time.
You captured my thought pretty accurately.
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How can they be this careless about how they are handling this?
I would guess there's one of two answers:
1) He's left but there's some legal complication related to that thing they did a few years back allowing people to buy shares(?) in the band, or some other legal complication involving the Queensryche "company".
2) He hasn't left but there's some legal complication involving Scott's personal life that means he can't be seen to be involved in the band.
It might be "we don't want to say" more than "we can't say". Maybe they think it's keeping interest in the band ticking over in a "no publicity is bad publicity" way but in general it does come across as weird.
I still prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt, for the time being, that they have a good reason.
At this point the mild excitement of them throwing off the shackles of Mythryche and replacing the rundown Tate with an enthusiastic rough diamond has completely faded. I'm alright with just getting a good album out of them every few years but I can understand why people feel they could/should do more.
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I'm pretty sure most people would know something's different if George Kollias joined Porcupine Tree. I'm surprised to hear that Todd has made such a silly comparison.
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1) He's left but there's some legal complication related to that thing they did a few years back allowing people to buy shares(?) in the band, or some other legal complication involving the Queensryche "company".
I have a feeling that this is the most accurate assessment. I think Samsara has pointed out the band's financial issues a few pages back, but in reality - they are still paying Tate off of the top for his settlement. Their guarantees have dropped. So the band is in a financial conundrum. How do they pay Tate and then buy Scott out when they have very little money available? Band members have downsized their private lifestyles, some were or are working day jobs, they can only afford to pay a sound guy and dropped their tour manager and other roadies or crew. From what I understand, it's not a pretty situation.
I'm pretty sure most people would know something's different if George Kollias joined Porcupine Tree. I'm surprised to hear that Todd has made such a silly comparison.
I've been told that despite his public persona of being a really cool, casual and fan-friendly guy, in reality, he is pretty sensitive to criticism. Assuming that he played drums on the album, having fans continually question who is on the record could be grating on him, knowing that he laid down the drums and will eventually have fans riding him because he's not Scott. As to the pizza comparison, yes it's very silly. It's not about the chef (i.e. Queensryche is Queensryche regardless of who is in the band). It's about replacing or substituting individual members (ingredients). Would the pizza still taste the same if you replaced the tomato sauce with Heinz ketchup?
I'm surprised to see him so active in battling some fans. A few have deserved his direct responses due to being typical social media jerks, but it's weird to see someone who constantly took the high road during the split with Geoff now entering the fray and directly responding to fans when they question where Scott is and if he played on the album.
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If Scott had posted "hey guys, due to my new family and other personal circumstances I have to take the next year or so off. I don't know when exactly I'll be back, please be patient. Please give a warm welcome to Casey on the live circuit, and the studio drums will be handled by no other than Mr. TLT himself, according what I had mapped out for the album before life got too busy! I'm stoked to hear the end result and stoked to see him make a return to drumming", they wouldn't have been scrutinized from the beginning. Ville can testify (:P) I paid notice to the situation as soon as I heard the words "parental leave", because fathers are so rarely on parental leave in metal, and I thought that was really sweet. When time passed by with no further update, and when QR posted the briefest "he's still on parental leave" comment to the 150th fan question asking about Scott, while at the same time I'd seen a band announcing he would produce their new album, I realized he was hiding behind a very lovely excuse. And that's just me, I don't even know the guys or have any connections to them whatsoever. Also, as soon as Casey announced he was leaving Kamelot, they had to realize this would invite further scrutiny and questions. Instead they hid their heads in the sand.
It's very seductive to think that in this day and age any band performing strongly regarded nostalgia material well will be viable and make enough money even if it pisses off their core fanbase. The case of QR proves that's not true. Yes, the more casual fans, if they even know about the situation, won't care about the Facebook comments and for them Scott is still on parental leave from tour and they have a cool new drummer playing live. But they won't prioritize coming out to see the band tour without a hyped album in the first place. Who's the one doing all the hyping? Who spread the word about how cool Todd was and how stoked they were for the new Queensryche and allowed them to come out of GT's shadow in the first place? The exact folks they're not being honest to right now, and the exact folks whose wishes they previously disregarded when they didn't go out to tour the new QR stuff.
Always look at your peers. The reason why Fates Warning, for example, is a viable band and made a comeback is because they paid attention to their core fanbase in Europe and invested in a few headline tours around loads of places they haven't toured in years or at all, and the roaringly positive response replenished them and inspired them to create a fantastic album, which got an even better response. Roy Khan was a real moneymaker for Kamelot, but they had the balls to say he will be replaced for the entirety of the tour for an album that wasn't critically acclaimed at all before the tickets went on sale, as soon as he told them he was leaving. When he released his statement about leaving, they kept on communicating with the fans. When they got a new singer, they started marketing their new stuff so aggressively, and constructing all of their live shows around it that it kinda had the opposite effect - now they have so many new fans that haven't heard the old songs on old tours, they can only play a few of pre-Ghost opera tunes at a time. QR could have been on that wave as well. They left it.
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It's very seductive to think that in this day and age any band performing strongly regarded nostalgia material well will be viable and make enough money even if it pisses off their core fanbase. The case of QR proves that's not true. Yes, the more casual fans, if they even know about the situation, won't care about the Facebook comments and for them Scott is still on parental leave from tour and they have a cool new drummer playing live. But they won't prioritize coming out to see the band tour without a hyped album in the first place. Who's the one doing all the hyping? Who spread the word about how cool Todd was and how stoked they were for the new Queensryche and allowed them to come out of GT's shadow in the first place? The exact folks they're not being honest to right now, and the exact folks whose wishes they previously disregarded when they didn't go out to tour the new QR stuff.
THIS.
:tup
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Yeah, that's a great post.
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Who's the one doing all the hyping? Who spread the word about how cool Todd was and how stoked they were for the new Queensryche and allowed them to come out of GT's shadow in the first place?
I feel like the hype started on June 08, 2012 - I was there, I saw it. I also believe it ended on June 09, 2012.
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If there really is a legal reason related to the share sale, then they really ought to play it a little tighter to the vest. The deciding factor isn't going to be what they "say" it's going to be what actually happened, and if it's a case of diminishing share value because it's not Scott, then Todd's "winking" isn't going to save them.
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If there really is a legal reason related to the share sale, then they really ought to play it a little tighter to the vest. The deciding factor isn't going to be what they "say" it's going to be what actually happened, and if it's a case of diminishing share value because it's not Scott, then Todd's "winking" isn't going to save them.
(https://www.darkside.ru/band/12848/n58942.jpg)
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
Classic!
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:lol :lol
For the current band's fans, I really hope their new record is good, and they actively support it. It should be, if the samples are any indication. As for supporting it live, I am sure in their 16-song sets these days, a couple of songs will appear, but I don't think the band will deviate from what they do now. Mostly just hits, with maybe a rarity or two, and everything will be from EP-Empire, other than the two new songs. They'll probably ignore PL, and ignore their last two records.
If I was constructing their set for the 2019-2020 cycle, under the ridiculous constraints of 16 songs (which is what they do nowadays, 85-90-minutes, tops) and ignoring PL (unfortunately), it'd have three new songs from the upcoming record, one song from each of Condition Human and Self-Titled (so a total of five songs from TLT era). Then given Empire's 30th, they would rotate five empire songs in the set, playing everything from it, but rotating what each night), and then two songs from Mindcrime, two from Rage, one from Warning, and one from the EP.
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So, a new video update was posted in the Pledgemusic page. It shows footage of Todd drumming in the studio. Pictures of all the band members (including Parker) were shown except for Scott's.
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Ville can testify (:P)
Yup :P (Great post btw)
I know this has been said numerous times in this thread before but man, I've never seen a band kill so much of its own momentum and miss so many opportunities. Besides the often mentioned lack of new material in the sets, I thought the pledge campaign for CH was pretty underwhelming to be honest: there were not that many exclusive updates or videos (and some of them were more like "hello from the road" and not even related to the actual recording process), and the signed CD I got was a standard edition - seriously? At least give the pledgers a digipak, dammit!
I was still ready and willing to cut them some slack, because the resulting record was a lot better than the rushed S/T, but all this lack of clarity regarding Scott and the general "meh, let's make some easy retirement money with the least required effort" attitude coming off from the (founding members of the) band has left a pretty sour taste in my mouth, and honestly I'm not even that psyched for the next album. It's sad to see a band with a great legacy that - for a moment - seemed to have got its shit back together resorting to lazy solutions and poor communication with its fans.
On top of all that, the more I listen to the Todd-era stuff, the more I find myself missing DeGarmo, and even Tate to an extent. The new material is well written and played semi-proggy metal, but for the most part it lacks the musical and lyrical depth of the RFO-PL era, and the fact that the band doesn't even bother to play a lot of it live makes it even harder to gain much of an emotional attachment to it. While Tate's work lately ranges from average to awful, at least the trilogy was an ambitious overtaking, and he's done lots of different types of tours in the past few years: the obligatory Mindcrime shows, the acoustic gigs, the tour with Blaze and Ripper, as well as some standard gigs with a mixed setlist (https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/operation-mindcrime/2016/the-canyon-club-agoura-hills-ca-33f33c25.html). He seems to put in some actual effort and enjoy what he's doing, even if the crowds are small, and he has a vision, which is what QR is lacking.
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Count in for Tate having entered Avantasia's family. Sure, Tobi must have searched for him because of his past glories, but still he got along enough with him to actually be part of the album, he went on tour with them and he will do so again, playing before crowds he will never reach by himself. That's a lot of exposure, and for someone who isn't interested or doesn't even know all the drama of the split (which happened 6 years ago btw, in internet times that's a lot of time, people don't overthink over these things), it could well be an exposure to him.
And hey, nobody who doesn't know him personally can know for sure what's going on with him, but for all we know, he might have actually learnt something from the split. He's six years older and supposedly wiser, he had to face reality and humility playing small crowds, maybe he really thought something like "Ok... I might have done something not so perfect... I should not blow my further chances", and commited more seriously to what he's doing. I've seen clips from his acoustic shows and he really seemed into it, he gave the vibe of being a frontman with consumate experience at easy with what he was doing and happy to perform.
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On top of all that, the more I listen to the Todd-era stuff, the more I find myself missing DeGarmo, and even Tate to an extent. The new material is well written and played semi-proggy metal, but for the most part it lacks the musical and lyrical depth of the RFO-PL era, and the fact that the band doesn't even bother to play a lot of it live makes it even harder to gain much of an emotional attachment to it. While Tate's work lately ranges from average to awful, at least the trilogy was an ambitious overtaking, and he's done lots of different types of tours in the past few years: the obligatory Mindcrime shows, the acoustic gigs, the tour with Blaze and Ripper, as well as some standard gigs with a mixed setlist (https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/operation-mindcrime/2016/the-canyon-club-agoura-hills-ca-33f33c25.html). He seems to put in some actual effort and enjoy what he's doing, even if the crowds are small, and he has a vision, which is what QR is lacking.
Agreed completely. To be fair, I think there is some great potential in what they've been doing the last two albums, but it certainly is not the same level QR reached in its prime. There's no way it could be. All the major writers, aside from Wilton, are gone. And now, the drummer who gave the tunes such a unique groove, that had hints of Rush in it, is gone too.
That setlist you linked to was really cool, and was on Tate's band's first tour though with the very first trilogy record. Tate wasn't performing well, and his band was nowhere near as competent at that point. But the setlist was outstanding, and I always regretted not seeing it.
Count in for Tate having entered Avantasia's family. Sure, Tobi must have searched for him because of his past glories, but still he got along enough with him to actually be part of the album, he went on tour with them and he will do so again, playing before crowds he will never reach by himself. That's a lot of exposure, and for someone who isn't interested or doesn't even know all the drama of the split (which happened 6 years ago btw, in internet times that's a lot of time, people don't overthink over these things), it could well be an exposure to him.
And hey, nobody who doesn't know him personally can know for sure what's going on with him, but for all we know, he might have actually learnt something from the split. He's six years older and supposedly wiser, he had to face reality and humility playing small crowds, maybe he really thought something like "Ok... I might have done something not so perfect... I should not blow my further chances", and commited more seriously to what he's doing. I've seen clips from his acoustic shows and he really seemed into it, he gave the vibe of being a frontman with consumate experience at easy with what he was doing and happy to perform.
I don't know Tate personally. But he has looked very much at ease with what he is doing. I last saw Tate with QR back in 2009. I didn't see him personally perform again until 2017, and he was so much more relaxed at that acoustic show. I saw him again this year, and it was more of the same (didn't sing quite as well, but he had a couple moments for sure). I think Tate's involvement with Avantasia is a great thing. IMO, Tate needs someone to get the best out of him vocally, and always has. Tobi did that on Seduction of Decay, and I have no doubt he will have done that on the three songs Tate has done this time.
At the end of the day, people need to be happy. And I'm glad both Tate and the QR guys seem to be. But I don't think QR will go on with La Torre after this record. I think inevitably, Tate reunites with Wilton, Jackson, and Rockenfield. Because simply put, they can make more money together than apart. And at some point, they need to retire. I can't see them being able to do that without some sort of cash flow. Hopefully, given the years apart, Tate making an effort to go say hello and watch QR's set a couple years ago, and Tate getting his voice in better shape, perhaps they'll be able to sit down a little wiser, and a little more tolerant, and put it together again. I don't think DeGarmo will be involved, but I'm still betting that a reunion of 4/5 of QR happens in 2020. But we'll see.
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I had a bit of a random playlist in my car yesterday (not specifically Ryche) but Roads to Madness came on and I forgot how fucking epic and amazing that song is. The guitar tones on the whole album are just epic. Such nice crunch in the guitars.
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I had a bit of a random playlist in my car yesterday (not specifically Ryche) but Roads to Madness came on and I forgot how fucking epic and amazing that song is. The guitar tones on the whole album are just epic. Such nice crunch in the guitars.
Top-five for me from them. I have to admit though, I really like the way they did it live on the Empire, with the build up to the held "maaaaaaadnes" on the chorus. I mean, it was done to preserve Tate's voice, but it just got really dramatic when he finally does it. Cool moment. But the studio version is killer. I still wonder how it would sound had the record not been remixed, and the guitars were up more the way they intended. Wish we had the ability to manipulate that ourselves.
I wasn't a fan of the abridged version they did for Live Evolution, or the acoustic version from 2003. That song needs its end part. Maybe not technically, but it makes it so much more epic.
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I had a bit of a random playlist in my car yesterday (not specifically Ryche) but Roads to Madness came on and I forgot how fucking epic and amazing that song is. The guitar tones on the whole album are just epic. Such nice crunch in the guitars.
My favorite QR song. My favorite QR album, along with O:M.
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It's difficult for me to choose a favorite album from the EP all the way through PL. What an incredible run that was. :hefdaddy
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I had a bit of a random playlist in my car yesterday (not specifically Ryche) but Roads to Madness came on and I forgot how fucking epic and amazing that song is. The guitar tones on the whole album are just epic. Such nice crunch in the guitars.
Top-five for me from them. I have to admit though, I really like the way they did it live on the Empire, with the build up to the held "maaaaaaadnes" on the chorus. I mean, it was done to preserve Tate's voice, but it just got really dramatic when he finally does it. Cool moment. But the studio version is killer. I still wonder how it would sound had the record not been remixed, and the guitars were up more the way they intended. Wish we had the ability to manipulate that ourselves.
I wasn't a fan of the abridged version they did for Live Evolution, or the acoustic version from 2003. That song needs its end part. Maybe not technically, but it makes it so much more epic.
I actually quite liked the Live Evolution version. I actually liked how Tate sang the chorus. Mind you I haven't listened to it for a while.
I had a bit of a random playlist in my car yesterday (not specifically Ryche) but Roads to Madness came on and I forgot how fucking epic and amazing that song is. The guitar tones on the whole album are just epic. Such nice crunch in the guitars.
My favorite QR song. My favorite QR album, along with O:M.
Yeah, as the years go on, I appreciate The Warning more and more.
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I have literally never heard Live Evolution. Or LIVEcrime, for that matter.
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I have literally never heard Live Evolution. Or LIVEcrime, for that matter.
Livecrime never was on regular rotation. It's just a well represented live version, you can imagine what it would sound like. Live Evolution was one of my first introductions to Ryche so maybe I'm biased. I really enjoy it, except for Kelly Gray.
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I definitely remember when LIVEcrime came out. I think if it was a full show live album, I definitely would've bought it. Simply a live version of Mindcrime, I felt it was incomplete as a show, and frankly that's how I like my live albums. I had it in my hands a number of times, but I just couldn't pull the trigger. I started getting into bootlegs around that time, and I always felt that I would be shortchanged by that release.
I was long checked out of QR by the time Live Evolution came out.
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Clearly the stuff with Todd is not on a par with QR in their prime which I would say just about includes PL, that’s some of the greatest metal ever released. I will argue with anyone however who says that it’s not miles better than anything they’ve released since, including HITNF with Tate and DeGarmo and the album DeGarmo came back to contribute on, was that called Tribe?
The Toddryche stuff at least sounds like classic QR. The songs aren’t quite up to that level for the most part (there are a few though that wouldn’t sound out of place on those albums) but it is recognisably QR unlike the awful stuff they put out before Tate got the boot. It’s not like it was one or two bad albums either, they had years upon years to turn things around under Tate’s leadership and just went from bad to worse, year after year, album after album. If you think you miss Tate, go and have a listen to Mindcrime 2 or American Soldier or whatever his last album with them was and then listen to the S/T or Condition Human. There’s literally no comparison.
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Every time this thread gets bumped up I expect an update on the new album.
Every time it isn't.
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Every time this thread gets bumped up I expect an update on the new album.
Every time it isn't.
same :(
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Take it as a reminder of the second half of Tate's tenure with the band.
Every time they released a new album you expected it to be good.
Every time it wasn't.
;D
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Clearly the stuff with Todd is not on a par with QR in their prime which I would say just about includes PL, that’s some of the greatest metal ever released. I will argue with anyone however who says that it’s not miles better than anything they’ve released since, including HITNF with Tate and DeGarmo and the album DeGarmo came back to contribute on, was that called Tribe?
The Toddryche stuff at least sounds like classic QR. The songs aren’t quite up to that level for the most part (there are a few though that wouldn’t sound out of place on those albums) but it is recognisably QR unlike the awful stuff they put out before Tate got the boot. It’s not like it was one or two bad albums either, they had years upon years to turn things around under Tate’s leadership and just went from bad to worse, year after year, album after album. If you think you miss Tate, go and have a listen to Mindcrime 2 or American Soldier or whatever his last album with them was and then listen to the S/T or Condition Human. There’s literally no comparison.
"miles bettter" of course is subjective.
I think I'd say the material on the two TLT QR albums is better than most of the stuff post-Chris, for sure. But again, everything is so subjective. The way I look at it, Queensryche's music followed a very distinct evolutionary course. As the guys got older, better players, more experienced songwriters, they experimented and pushed around, and what came out of it was a catalog of very different sounding records that all had this recognizable thread in them. Speaking for me, that thread is what catches my ear.
When Chris left after HITNF (which is flawed, but I've come to really appreciate that record over 20 years), that thread stopped. Q2k, at least I think, is a good album, but sounds nothing like QR before it. And that's not because of QR's trend of releasing albums that differ from each other. It's because that songwriting evolution, that thread, had ceased, and a new one began.
When Chris came back for what amounts to half of the Tribe album, you can hear that thread/sonic evolution again. It's present. Those songs he wrote/co-wrote/recorded sound like a natural extension of HITNF, into something new. But Tribe is such an anomaly. It's like a Frankenstein Queensryche record. You hear the original band again, but then you hear how incomplete it is, like it was stitched together to get it out there. And it was -- DeGarmo left the process well before it was done. But again, that thread, that sonic evolution, in the songs Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, Art of Life, Doin' Fine, and Justified (written and partially recorded during Tribe) are all a natural connection/extension from HITNF -- the thread was extended.
After Tribe, that thread is gone. Mindcrime II was Slater/Stone doing the music. American Soldier was Slater/Gray. D2C was Slater/Gane/Gray/Rockenfield/Jackson (again, talking music, the lyrics are obviously by Tate). More like splotches than threads, because no threads were given time to actually develop.
Then you have self-titled, Condition Human, and the new record. There is for sure a new thread, and you can easily hear it from the first to second record, and I guarantee you'll hear it on the upcoming record.
But while the music of these two (soon to be three) albums is arguably, subjectively, "better" than what came after PL, it doesn't, trying to be as objective as possible, sound like that original thread. It has hints of it in the riffs, some of Wilton's solos, and some of the vocal phrasing. It sounds like, potentially, a band picking up after Empire and sticking with that Empire/Mindcrime sound might have done, if they hadn't made the choice they did.
To me, however, that evolutionary move from Empire to PL is distinctly QR, and absolutely, if you follow the track of their writing, what was the natural next step, without repeating themselves. And that thread, and the elements of it that made up Queensryche, is what I've grown over the years to really love and enjoy. It's a familiarity -- different songs, different vibes, but distinctly QR.
Toddryche, as you called it, has great songs, and in some ways, the albums are more in-line, style-wise, with what I generally listen to, as opposed to HITNF, or Tribe, etc. But while I would concede that, I would also say its almost a completely new band, which started with the template of the old one, and stitched its own unique thread, which for me, isn't quite as good as the original thread.
I hope that makes sense. I am not belittling your point at all, just trying to explain how I view it all, and why.
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HITNF (which is flawed, but I've come to really appreciate that record over 20 years)
You're welcome.
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HITNF (which is flawed, but I've come to really appreciate that record over 20 years)
You're welcome.
You mystify, with the things that you say. ;)
Nah, I still think the clunkers are clunkers, and it has way too much filler. But I've come to really appreciate I think where Chris and Geoff, and the band as a whole were at, at that point in life. Songs like Some People Fly, which I thought was a bit cheesy, resonate more now, and my favorites are still strong favorites to this day. I think that record is 7 tunes strong: Sign of the Times, The Voice Inside, Some People Fly, Reach, You, Hero, Hit the Black, spOOL. Saved, Cuckoos Nest, and CHasing Blue Sky (b-side) are undercooked, and could have been better. And four, at least to my ears, shouldn't be on the album at all. Although obviously preference is subjective.
But over the years, I appreciate what Chris was trying to achieve with HITNF musically. He wanted to incorporate a more modern sound, but at the same time keep the complexity without it seeming like it was complex. I think HITNF achieves that. The guitar playing is massively underrated...its just not complex in the way QR was complex previously. I think Tate's less inspired vocals were very much on purpose, to sort of gel him with the times to a degree. HITNF was supposed to be Empire again, but Empire for the late 1990s. It didn't quite do that. But I still maintain to this day, if EMI didn't fold, it would have been really successful at the time. Sign of the Times and You were on massive rotation in New York (Long Island) at the time, and I've heard that it was the same throughout the U.S. Then when EMI went belly-up, there went the promotional push, and there went the tour (they had planned to do a European tour, and couldn't since they were forced to self-finance the U.S. tour, and then ultimately, Chris decided to leave).
But HITNF, looking back...for its time it had a lot of potential. But while the stars aligned in 1990 for QR, they didn't in 1997.
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@Samsara I don’t disagree with some of that. The Toddryche albums are not really an evolution of the band in the way they did in the classic years. It’s more of a rehash of their classic sound with some modern influences. I would never argue these new albums are on the same level as a Rage, Mindcrime, Empire or Promised Land. They are not. There are a few songs sprinkled across both releases that wouldn’t stick out horribly on those early records but they are not consistently at that level and not really breaking new ground, just trying to recapture the glory days.
HITNF has it’s moments but is not a good album imo, same for Q2K, I’m a big fan of Right Side Of My Mind though. They just began to sound like a run of the mill band to me by Q2K, not the unique special band I loved. What followed was largely terrible, seem to remember liking a bit of Tribe but not the DeGarmo penned tunes strangely as I was super excited when he came back. Can’t find any redeeming features on the others. The last two albums were a momentous shift in quality for me and I really enjoy them for what they are. Not classic by any means but still some new QR that I can enjoy listening to with a sound that harks back to the classic era.
The thought of going back to Tate and those later albums would not fill me with optimism. A full reunion with all 5 members might get me a little excited but not going back to what they were before Todd.
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Sign of the Times got decent play over here as well, and You was pretty big. I also remember hearing Reach on radio, but only once or twice. But yeah...what could have been.
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The thought of going back to Tate and those later albums would not fill me with optimism. A full reunion with all 5 members might get me a little excited but not going back to what they were before Todd.
I completely understand this line of thought. Trust me, if I was a big fan of modern QR still, I'd feel the exact same way as you. I get it. I think the reason why I have been saying a lot that QR would reunite the way they were before Todd is not because I think it is what the fans want. I don't think that at all. I think for the most part, fans dig what Todd has brought to the band. I think a reunion with Tate would be strictly business if that's what THE PROMOTERS want. If there is one thing I have noticed post-Chris, is that the band does what the band does for one reason, and one reason only - most money, for least work. Period. And I get that, from a business standpoint.
However, if you accept that as how it works, then the writing is on the wall for Toddryche. IF (and I am not friends with a promoter who works with them, so I can't confirm) promoters are willing to give them a decent pay day to reunite with Tate (without Chris) and do some nostalgia thing for Empire, which would then result in Tate, Rockenfield, Wilton, and Jackson making more money than what they do now, they WILL do it if the money is there and significantly more than they make now in guarantees. In a heartbeat. Every decision they ever made was generally based on this post-Chris. It's just how they do things.
But I think the point has been made, that they could have had their cake and eaten too had they put in more work early on in this rebirth in terms of not catering to the hairband pay days with fly-in gigs backing Vince Neil and Great White, and instead took the harder road of going out and slugging it out as metal headliners in clubs on the strength of their new material. Had they done that, they might be in a better position to decide what to do, even if it meant taking less money to do what want to do, as opposed to caving and doing what they think they have to do. Because they took the easier road in 2012-2014, and Scott is no longer in the band (which I think, while not confirmed, is pretty obvious), they are sorta stuck and have to do what they have to do to make ends meet.
Short-sighted thinking. Rinse-repeat. :-[
Sign of the Times got decent play over here as well, and You was pretty big. I also remember hearing Reach on radio, but only once or twice. But yeah...what could have been.
That's cool about Reach. I never heard that one. Just Sign of the Times and You. The Voice Inside and spOOL were also on deck as promotional singles. I think Reach would have been a great single as well.
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From a ticket selling standpoint I get the argument that promoters may be willing to take more of a chance on them with Tate, at least in the short term. Would not be optimistic about any new music they would come out with though.
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From a ticket selling standpoint I get the argument that promoters may be willing to take more of a chance on them with Tate, at least in the short term. Would not be optimistic about any new music they would come out with though.
Well, they'd be sacrificing long term longevity for short-term monetary gain. Which is completely in line with the band's attitude over the last handful of years.
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Maybe the next album title will be: "It may be dumb, but it keeps the lights on."
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Maybe the next casino tour with Great White will be: "It may be dumb, but it keeps the lights on."
Fixed it for you.
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Danged auto-correct. :rant:
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Heard there may be a passive comment early next week that will clarify who makes up Queensryche these days.
:corn
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Friend of mine just got an email from a venue saying Queensryche and Fates Warning are touring (the particular date was in March). Assuming the announcement I mentioned Friday is the press release announcing a tour. If so -- COOL. I'll be skipping QR, but FATES! :metal :metal :metal
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Wow! I hope it's a tour and not just a date or three.
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Wow! I hope it's a tour and not just a date or three.
A handful wouldn't make sense. QR will have its new album out, and I doubt Fates would do a couple of one-off dates as a support act in a club or a casino (I don't think Fates has ever played a casino). My guess is, QR headline tour of a month or two. Fingers crossed there is a date by us.
Edit -- looks like QR's new album is named THE VERDICT.
Tour dates are popping up - https://www.queensrycheofficial.com/tour-dates/
(https://photos.bandsintown.com/thumb/8893890.jpeg)
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Their official forum posted a press release. I'll give them some credit for going out and touring with a contemporary band, though Fates is a little predictable, though they haven't toured together for 15 years.
QUEENSRźCHE ANNOUNCE NEW ALBUM THE VERDICT - BAND ANNOUNCES SPRING HEADLINE U.S. TOUR
*Bellevue, Washington – October 29, 2018 – Rock icons Queensr˙che have just announced their newest album The Verdict out March 1st via Century Media Records. The band’s forthcoming release was produced, mixed, and mastered by Zeuss (Rob Zombie, Iced Earth, Hatebreed) at Uberbeatz in Lynwood, WA, Planet-Z in Wilbraham, MA and Watershed Studio in Seattle, WA. Pre-orders and formats will be announced soon. In the meantime, the band has a Pledge pre-order campaign currently running HERE.
"I'm extremely proud of what we were able to accomplish on this record,” states Queensr˙che vocalist Todd La Torre about The Verdict. “The relentless dedication and hard work of everyone involved has been very rewarding. I am excited and looking forward to it no longer just belonging to us, but belonging to the world. We hope you all enjoy listening to it as much as we enjoyed making it!"
Michael “Whip” Wilton (guitar) adds, “The Verdict is the most metal and the most progressive record we have made in a long time. I couldn't possibly be more excited for everyone to hear this."
To support The Verdict, Queensr˙che have also announced their spring U.S. headline tour today with special guests Fates Warning. The Cringe will be joining both bands on select dates. The tour will kick off on March 2nd in Orlando, making stops in major markets such as New York, Atlanta, Chicago, and Los Angeles, and will wrap on April 3rd in Seattle. The band recently finished a run supporting SCORPIONS this past September. For more information on upcoming tour dates and to purchase tickets, visit the
band’s website HERE.
The Verdict follows the bands most recent release, Condition Hüman, received rave reviews from outlets such as Loudwire, KNAC, About.com, and more. The 2014 release debuted on Billboard’s Top Rock Albums chart at #5 with over 14,000 units sold first week and 100,000 albums sold globally to date.
Queensr˙che have secured a triumphant legacy as one of hard rock’s most respected and celebrated acts in the industry, selling over 30 million albums around the world across in the span of their 30-plus year career. Queensr˙che’s stone cold classic debut full-length, The Warning, and the badass monster sophomore release, Rage for Order, reignited the flames of heavy, progressive, melodic hard rock and metal. With the release of the band’s third album, Operation: Mindcrime, catapulted the band into mainstream success, single-handedly redefining the concept album and charged into the Top 40. A precision collection of near-perfect songs pushed landmark masterpiece Empire to triple platinum.
“Silent Lucidity”, off of the fourth LP, earned the band their second and third Grammy nominations, plus five nominations at the MTV Video Music Awards, where Queensr˙che picked up the Viewer’s Choice Award. Following the massive success of Empire, the band released, Promised Land, which entered the charts at #3 and became another platinum selling record. Adding to their successes, Queensryche have dominated Rock Radio with hits like “Jet City Woman”, “Another Rainy Night (Without You)”, “Real World”, “I AM I”, “Bridge”, and “Sign of the Times”.
Now, with the band’s 16th full-length album on the way, Queensr˙che is looking to continue to dominate the heavy metal scene.
QUEENSRźCHE HEADLINE TOUR DATES :
March 2 - Orlando, FL - The Plaza Live
March 3 - Ft. Lauderdale, FL - Culture Room
March 5 - Atlanta, GA - Masquerade
March 7 - Baltimore - Sound Stage*
March 8 - Uncasville, CT - Mohegan Sun^
March 9 - New York, NY - Irving Plaza*
March 10 - Worcester, MA – Palladium*
March 12 - Cincinnati, OH - Bogarts
March 13 - Detroit, MI - Diesel
March 14 - Chicago, IL - Concord
March 15 - Milwaukee, WI - The Rave
March 16 - Medina, MN - Medina Entertainment Center
March 17 - Davenport, IA - Rhythm City Casino Resort^
March 20 - Dallas, TX - House of Blues
March 21 - Houston, TX - House of Blues
March 22 - San Antonio, TX - Aztec
March 23 - Albuquerque, NM - El Rey
March 26 - Tempe, AZ - The Marquee
March 27 - San Diego - Observatory
March 28 - Los Angeles, CA- Fonda
March 29 - San Francisco, CA - Slim's
March 30 - Sacramento, CA - Ace of Spades
April 2 - Portland, OR - Crystal Ballroom
April 3 - Seattle, WA – Neptune
*w/ support from The Cringe
^Queensr˙che only
Read more: https://queensrycheofficialforum.com/thread/1945/queensr-che-announce-album-verdict#ixzz5VKskoyWp
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I see a date that could work.
EDIT: I see a better date! :D
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I see a date that could work.
EDIT: I see a better date! :D
I see two.
p.s. looks like who Queensryche is, was left off the final release. ;)
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Yes, I noticed that as well.
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Wasn't Condition Human released in 2016? Release says 2014. They really need to proofread. :lol
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Oh yea! I'll be at the San Antonio show.
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Holy fuck yes El Rey. Not gonna miss seeing Fates Warning at all.
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I'll give them some credit for going out and touring with a contemporary band...
Fates Warning is contemporary? I never would have guessed.
I am not even sure I know where the Neptune is. If pressed I would have said it is a local movie theater.... reseaching... huh, it was a movie theater just as I was thinking, but now it is a live venue.
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Michael “Whip” Wilton (guitar) adds, “The Verdict is the most metal and the most progressive record we have made in a long time. I couldn't possibly be more excited for everyone to hear this."
I know it is just the hype machine at work, but that sounds cool, regardless. :lol
And if the image I posted earlier is close to the cover art, it reminds me of a Testament cover a bit...
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Michael “Whip” Wilton (guitar) adds, “The Verdict is the most metal and the most progressive record we have made in a long time. I couldn't possibly be more excited for everyone to hear this."
I know it is just the hype machine at work, but that sounds cool, regardless. :lol
And if the image I posted earlier is close to the cover art, it reminds me of a Testament cover a bit...
It is the cover art. Looks so much better than the Condition Human cover, which was very amateurish (and I know Todd was throwing his friend a bone with that cover, but the end product was not good). I like how the tri-ryche was adapted into a scale here, with the top a little off balance. Can't go wrong with anything that looks like this. I haven't heard the samples, but I like the cover and Wilton's comment, even if it's standard album-promo hype.
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Oh man do those tour dates look crammed :omg:
Awaiting European dates :corn
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Oh man do those tour dates look crammed :omg:
Awaiting European dates :corn
About normal, honestly. Plus, to make ends meet on a U.S. tour, they are sorta forced to. I may not be a big supporter of this lineup of QR, but gotta admit, the album cover and the tour look great. Fates Warning has become my favorite (along with Alter Bridge) these days, so I will be at at least two of these shows.
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Sucks that we have to wait even longer for the album to drop...I was thinking January but March?
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Wow. Yeah, I just noticed that. That's going to be hard on both singers. I get having to be as efficient as possible, but man! Starting on the third date, there is a 4-in-a-row, 1 day break from MA to OH to start a 6-in-a-row. A couple of days off, and then a 4-in-a-row, 2 day break, and 5-in-a-row.
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Wow. Yeah, I just noticed that. That's going to be hard on both singers. I get having to be as efficient as possible, but man! Starting on the third date, there is a 4-in-a-row, 1 day break from MA to OH to start a 6-in-a-row. A couple of days off, and then a 4-in-a-row, 2 day break, and 5-in-a-row.
Yeah, not looking promising for vocals from either artist. That's rough.
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Wow. Yeah, I just noticed that. That's going to be hard on both singers. I get having to be as efficient as possible, but man! Starting on the third date, there is a 4-in-a-row, 1 day break from MA to OH to start a 6-in-a-row. A couple of days off, and then a 4-in-a-row, 2 day break, and 5-in-a-row.
Damn we got the end of a 4-day, I hope both singers don't sound bad. I'm sure they won't.
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Days off on tour equal losing money. Expenses (transportation, fuel, food, hotels) and no income from playing a show or selling merch.
I'm hoping the band proves me wrong - I've been very critical of them since Condition Human came out and they failed to support the album well. I doubt they're going to string together any tours, but at least they're going out with a band in their genre and hopefully they play a good portion of the new album, plus a few songs from the last two records as well. The CH headlining tours featured 3-4 songs from Todd's two albums. No reason to not play at least 7 of his era's songs.
Sadly, my concert-going hiatus (i.e. two young kids') will keep me from attending this tour, but it's good to see them ramping up the promotion for the new album.
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Mostly for FW: I may have to jump on a plane for this (SFO, SMF or ABQ). Beats trying to drag my ass up to Hollywood on a Thursday night.
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Mostly for FW: I may have to jump on a plane for this (SFO, SMF or ABQ). Beats trying to drag my ass up to Hollywood on a Thursday night.
P -- come up for San Fran. We'll hang. I'll even stay for QR (wasn't planning to) if you do and take in the set with ya. PM me if you decide to.
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Damn... nothing anywhere close to where I'll be living come March. That is a crazy schedule though = 24 dates in 32 days!!!!
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Mostly for FW: I may have to jump on a plane for this (SFO, SMF or ABQ). Beats trying to drag my ass up to Hollywood on a Thursday night.
P -- come up for San Fran. We'll hang. I'll even stay for QR (wasn't planning to) if you do and take in the set with ya. PM me if you decide to.
Oh, but you won't stay for QR if *I* decide to go? I see how it is.
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Mostly for FW: I may have to jump on a plane for this (SFO, SMF or ABQ). Beats trying to drag my ass up to Hollywood on a Thursday night.
P -- come up for San Fran. We'll hang. I'll even stay for QR (wasn't planning to) if you do and take in the set with ya. PM me if you decide to.
I'll definitely let you NoCal folks know if I decide to come up there. That'd be a blast!
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Mostly for FW: I may have to jump on a plane for this (SFO, SMF or ABQ). Beats trying to drag my ass up to Hollywood on a Thursday night.
Same here. I'm mostly in for Fates Warning. They probably are my favorite band displacing DT a few years ago. :metal
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Mostly for FW: I may have to jump on a plane for this (SFO, SMF or ABQ). Beats trying to drag my ass up to Hollywood on a Thursday night.
P -- come up for San Fran. We'll hang. I'll even stay for QR (wasn't planning to) if you do and take in the set with ya. PM me if you decide to.
Oh, but you won't stay for QR if *I* decide to go? I see how it is.
Hahahha. Check your email as to THAT reason for THAT particular show. You know, the one I sent you initially saying who was going.
P -- cool.
Same here. I'm mostly in for Fates Warning. They probably are my favorite band displacing DT a few years ago. :metal
:metal
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;)
If our entourage grows much bigger, we are DEFINITELY going to have to get in line early to stake out enough space in that one spot in the venue.
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;)
If our entourage grows much bigger, we are DEFINITELY going to have to get in line early to stake out enough space in that one spot in the venue.
Best spot in the house! We'll make it happen. I'll corner that one metal dude that is always there and make him reserve the whole row. Dude owes me for watching his spot 5x the last time we were there. :lol
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I think it was more than that, so I'd get him to throw in some nacho fries too.
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that artwork has 80's cheese schlock written all over it.
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I'll give them some credit for going out and touring with a contemporary band...
Fates Warning is contemporary? I never would have guessed.
I am not even sure I know where the Neptune is. If pressed I would have said it is a local movie theater.... reseaching... huh, it was a movie theater just as I was thinking, but now it is a live venue.
The Neptune is an awesome old theater. Saw some good movies there when I was at the U, but I haven't seen a live show there. That'll be interesting.
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Will be interesting how they follow up Condition Human. Still a very long way away though.
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Wasn't Condition Human released in 2016? Release says 2014. They really need to proofread. :lol
"With the release of the band’s third album, Operation: Mindcrime, catapulted " - they should worry less about being badass and more about making sense ;D
Michael “Whip” Wilton (guitar) adds, “The Verdict is the most metal and the most progressive record we have made in a long time. I couldn't possibly be more excited for everyone to hear this."
I know it is just the hype machine at work, but that sounds cool, regardless. :lol
And if the image I posted earlier is close to the cover art, it reminds me of a Testament cover a bit...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4f/SoulsofBlack.jpg/220px-SoulsofBlack.jpg)(https://photos.bandsintown.com/thumb/8893890.jpeg)
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Cool looking album cover! :metal
Sounds promising that this album will be more metal and progressive. I liked the first two Todd albums but they just seemed to have too much of a mid tempo vibe and wasn’t getting out of second gear that often.
Hopefully they let loose a bit more on this one. Sure sounds like it
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Michael “Whip” Wilton (guitar) adds, “The Verdict is the most metal and the most progressive record we have made in a long time. I couldn't possibly be more excited for everyone to hear this."
I know it is just the hype machine at work, but that sounds cool, regardless. :lol
And if the image I posted earlier is close to the cover art, it reminds me of a Testament cover a bit...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4f/SoulsofBlack.jpg/220px-SoulsofBlack.jpg)(https://photos.bandsintown.com/thumb/8893890.jpeg)
Nah. Looks more like Jelly Jam's album cover for Profit.
https://www.amazon.com/Jelly-Jam-Profit/dp/B01D0RKAKY
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I find the album cover kind of icky, but still, I'll be checking out the album.
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Wasn't Condition Human released in 2016? Release says 2014. They really need to proofread. :lol
October 2015 ;D
Anyway, I'm hyped. The cover looks really bad but I'm excited for the album regardless. :metal:
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Album cover is pretty cheesy but it’s 10 times better than the awful Condition Human one. By the way, did that sell 100,000 copies? Not really up on the levels of album sales these days but that still seems respectable? Nowhere near their glory days obviously but not too bad considering how far they fell from those days. Or am I way off and that’s a pitiful amount?
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steven wilson's To The Bone sold about 250.000, so it's not too bad i think? He's a lot bigger than Queensryche these days.
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I'll give them some credit for going out and touring with a contemporary band...
Fates Warning is contemporary? I never would have guessed.
I am not even sure I know where the Neptune is. If pressed I would have said it is a local movie theater.... reseaching... huh, it was a movie theater just as I was thinking, but now it is a live venue.
The Neptune is an awesome old theater. Saw some good movies there when I was at the U, but I haven't seen a live show there. That'll be interesting.
I saw Rocky Horror in that theater back in the day. It's in the U-District. This is going to be a fantastic show.
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A couple of song clips now on their official YouTube included in a promo video for the album and tour. Hard to tell completely but sounds promising to me.
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The sample clips sounded pretty decent
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Yeah, clips sound good :tup
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Yeah, clips sound good :tup
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sounds good to me too
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So I'm going to the Ryche/Fates tour in Worcester, Ma. :metal
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I'll be at a couple shows. Not sure if I am staying for QR yet. Will depend on the setlist.
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Not sold on the album cover (looks like generic metal artwork), but the last clip in the video sounds promising.
Clearly the stuff with Todd is not on a par with QR in their prime which I would say just about includes PL, that’s some of the greatest metal ever released. I will argue with anyone however who says that it’s not miles better than anything they’ve released since, including HITNF with Tate and DeGarmo and the album DeGarmo came back to contribute on, was that called Tribe?
Honestly, if HITNF had better production and the crappiest few songs like Get a Life and Anytime/Anywhere were thrown out, the resulting album would be easily better than CH IMO.
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Not listened to it in a loooooong time but I listened to it a lot when it came out, desperately trying to convince myself it was good as they were probably my favourite band in the world at that point having bought PL and then worked my way back. It's not a terrible album by most band's standards but, compared to what came before, it's like they fell off a cliff in terms of quality imo. Seem to remember Spool was quite a decent song but not much else. I think Condition Human has a few duds also but has Arrow Of Time, Guardian, Hellfire, Eye9 and Bullet Proof at least which are better than anything on HITNF imo. I think I even preferred Q2K to HITNF but it's so long since I listened to either of them that I wouldn't want to totally stand behind that opinion!
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Honestly, if HITNF had better production and the crappiest few songs like Get a Life and Anytime/Anywhere were thrown out, the resulting album would be easily better than CH IMO.
I absolutely agree. Those are the two main problems with HITNF -- too much filler, and flat, lifeless production. People love to label stuff, and saying that HITNF was QR doing the grunge or alternative thing may not be wrong. But the direction wasn't what the problem was with the album. HITNF had a lot of good songs. It just got bloated with too many throwaways and a misstep in dialing back the production.
Frankly, there is a ton of ear candy on there for guitarists.
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I look at it completely opposite. I liked their approach and what they were trying to do. I just think there's a ton of junk on it.
Oh, and I LOVE Anytime/Anywhere!
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Well, sure. But it is well documented that your opinions on music are generally rubbish.
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(https://sayingimages.com/wp-content/uploads/ouch-thats-a-lot-of-burn-meme.png)
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Just took a look at the Irving Plaza show. I wonder what the difference is between the $29.50 GA and $35.00 GA tix. It'd be nice if they made that distinction on the Live Nation web page.
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Fates Warning is contemporary? I never would have guessed.
You need to listen to their latest album.
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track listing per QR Facebook page...
1. Blood of the Levant
2. Man the Machine
3. Light-years
4. Inside Out
5. Propaganda Fashion
6. Dark Reverie
7. Bent
8. Inner Unrest
9. Launder the Conscience
10. Portrait
teased a major announcement tomorrow as well.
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teased a major announcement tomorrow as well.
Are they FINALLY going to tell people that Todd played drums? Or perhaps that Ed Bass is going on parental leave this year? :lol (kidding)
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teased a major announcement tomorrow as well.
Are they FINALLY going to tell people that Todd played drums? Or perhaps that Ed Bass is going on parental leave this year? :lol (kidding)
Todd will take over drums, and Geoff the vocals. Or maybe the other way around :biggrin:
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teased a major announcement tomorrow as well.
Are they FINALLY going to tell people that Todd played drums? Or perhaps that Ed Bass is going on parental leave this year? :lol (kidding)
Todd will take over drums, and Geoff the vocals. Or maybe the other way around :biggrin:
We laugh, but now a couple years down the line, I can see a scenario where Geoff returns, and both he and Todd sing, with Todd on drums. I don't think it'd ever happen, but given everything else that happens with this band, you can't rule it out. :rollin
Song titles are cool. Hopefully the record is good.
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Wow. This long a wait. For 10 songs.
Eh, I don't know why I even bother being annoyed, honestly. I just need to resign myself to the fact that QR is perhaps the most underachieving band in history, given their potential, and they live to give the least possible effort in anything they do.
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Wow. This long a wait. For 10 songs.
To be fair, the album still could be 50+ minutes, which is usually what they do. My guess is they have a couple of longer tracks on there. (Long for them.)
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Yeah, that's too short. This isn't 1980.
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Seems to me like the more common trend these days is one hour or less. DT is a bit of an exception to the rule these days.
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What is wrong with the album having 10 songs? Most metal albums with more than 10 songs usually have a couple fillers. 10 songs is pretty much the standard for metal albums.
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I don't think albums over an hour have ever been the "trend" in music. Prog is one of the few genres that do.
& I really don't understand the disappointment over 10 songs. All things considered, that's pretty average. QR only have 4 albums with 12+ songs (not counting interludes), 3 of which are considered the dark age of their discography & other one is HITNF. :lol
I mean, if it's as short as QR12 or Tribe I'd be disappointed, but I don't a reason to assume it will be (at least not yet).
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Yeah, that's too short. This isn't 1980.
Also, what? Since when is 50+ minutes too short?
Another statistic: the only QR albums over an hour are Empire and American Soldier.
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I don't think albums over an hour have ever been the "trend" in music. Prog is one of the few genres that do.
& I really don't understand the disappointment over 10 songs. All things considered, that's pretty average. QR only have 4 albums with 12+ songs (not counting interludes), 3 of which are considered the dark age of their discography & other one is HITNF. :lol
I mean, if it's as short as QR12 or Tribe I'd be disappointed, but I don't a reason to assume it will be (at least not yet).
When CD's first got to be the #1 way music was listened to, there were A LOT of 70 min albums. A lot of bands felt the need to fill the space that a CD allowed. But it soon became evident that if you were a blues based hair metal band, your sound became "fatigued" after a certain point. Then bands started backing off to the 50-60 minute mark. That seemed to be the happy medium.
But more recently, albums have gotten even shorter. I remember when Riverside first released ADHD, they said there was an intentional thought of keeping it to the length of a classic album that might fit on a record (40-50 min) and I've seen many bands follow suit.
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I think it's always better to have quality over quantity on an album, but a 40 min "full lenght album" just feels lazy.
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Btw the new single is on Spotify ;)
https://open.spotify.com/album/52395IUFQXHluX4mvqg7Yb?si=P7ielGgVTBiq1GQ-zsgTrg
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Btw the new single is on Spotify ;)
https://open.spotify.com/album/52395IUFQXHluX4mvqg7Yb?si=P7ielGgVTBiq1GQ-zsgTrg
Nice - that's about the closest they've got to classic QR with TLT in the band I reckon. Like many post DeGarmo era songs I seem to have a moment here and there where I think Whip has not quite got it right with how certain notes/rhythms resolve (hard to explain but it's just something NQR for me in a number of Wilton's songs - just a few seconds here and there).
The drums do sound a bit vanilla for Queensryche which is no surprise but overall I like what that song might say about the direction they've taken.
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Yeah, I'm not really feeling this one :\
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Here it is:
Man the Machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ky7t8DV1xI
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What is wrong with the album having 10 songs?
If the band fills the space with longer songs, that's fine. I'm good with DT12 only having 9 songs because they give you so much music that it is worthwhile. For a band that can't figure out how to write a song past 4 minutes, a 10-song album isn't worth the money. As it stands now, if I don't hear something that really impresses me, I'm done with this band's underachieving. They can keep putting out 40 minute albums and touring with Poison, or whatever they want. But I'm not paying them for it.
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Impressions after first listen:
The guitars sound like Queensryche. Specifically, they sound like Michael. The third rhythm part (the clean strum) underneath the beginning harkens back to the Mindcrime album. And the guitars sound good. But that's the only thing that makes the song remotely sound like Queensryche.
That's OK though, because to be honest, three albums in, this IS a different band. They are Queensryche in name, and for some people, that's all that matters. I think the song is decent, and I am sure people will love it. But that thread tying it back to classic original lineup Queensryche is getting thinner and thinner these days. If Wilton's distinct guitar wasn't there, it would sound like any other generic metal band. That's not a shot at them, just an observation that they've just created their own vibe.
Fans of this era of Queensryche should be ecstatic.
One question though, that "Broken, Broken" part is the chorus, right? Do they even say the song title anywhere in the song?
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A buddy of mine said that QR also just announced no Scott Rockenfield on the first leg of the tour. I haven't bothered to verify, but I am assuming it was posted on social media or something.
They keep putting it off, and putting it off, and putting it off.
The drums sound nothing like how Scott would play. It's obvious its not him. They are just concerned if they actually tell fans the truth, it'll impact the album's chart debut and initial sales. :lol
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2cd edition, tracklist and song lenghts:
https://www.emp.de/p/the-verdict/392723.html#q=Queensryche&srule=release-date&sz=60&start=1
Blood of the Levant (3:27)
Man The Machine (3:50)
Light-years (4:09)
Inside Out (4:31)
Propaganda Fashion (3:36)
Dark Reverie (4:23)
Bent (5:59)
Inner Unrest (3:50)
Launder the Conscience (5:15)
Portrait (5:16)
Tracklist der Bonus-CD:
I Dream in Infrared (Acoustic) (3:59) - exclusive studio track recorded in 2018
Open Road (Acoustic) (3:39) - exclusive studio track recorded in 2018
46° North (3:33) - never released on CD, studio track recorded during "Condition Hüman" sessions
Mercury Rising (3:55) - never released on CD, studio track recorded during "Condition Hüman" sessions
Espiritu Muerto (3:40) - studio track recorded during "Condition Hüman" sessions
Queen of the Reich (Live 2012) (4:34)
En Force (Live 2012) (4:21)
Prophecy (Live 2012) (4:09)
Eyes Of A Stranger (Live 2012) (6:55) - previously only released in Japan
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In case you're wondering, 44 minutes of new music. Yes, I would like more music from them, but it is what it is. The bonus CD is cool :tup
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Hmm. Depends on how much it will cost. If it is not much more than a regular CD, the additional tracks are a nice addition that partly makes up for the short running time. But three of them were released on the s/t (the 2012 live tracks), to it is really only 3 new tracks, 2 acoustic, and 1 live. Most, if not all of that, could have been put on a single disc and released as a standard edition for the same cost. I'll pay 15 or 16 bucks, but any more than that, and as I said above, I'll feel like the band is ripping off the fans. Full price for 45 minutes of new music on the standard edition is unacceptable for a band 3 albums into this lineup. If they can't come up with more than that, they don't deserve my money.
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That's still better than 35 minutes of the self titled album.
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Yeah, but that shouldn't be the standard. It was a b.s. move then, but a lot of people (myself included) gave them a pass on such a short album because over everything that was going on, and this being their first without Geoff (or writers hired by him) doing the lion's share of the writing. Condition Human wasn't really all that long either, but I'm not going to complain about 12 songs (or 11 with an interlude, if you want to count it that way), especially when the writing quality was there. I'm just running out of patience with them. It's one bit of laziness and shortsightedness after the other. It has become par for the course.
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I have no problem with a short album as long as it's pretty spectacular. I'd rather have a rock solid short album than a so-so longer album.
What bothered me specifically with the Queensryche self-titled (2nd time, I will die on my hill of how stupid this was), was that they came away from the legal issues talking about how they had been ignored, how they were brimming with ideas, and yet the triumphant return after all that talk was... 35 minutes? Like... the fuck?
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They were racing to put a product out to compete with Geoff's QR's Frequency Unknown album. It was dumb, but from a consumer's viewpoint, they needed something out for sale since Geoff had his own version of a QR album out. It was all about posturing from both bands, who were each trying to represent themselves as Queensryche to the fans and to the industry.
The best thing they could have done then is let Geoff's disc fall flat (as it did) and take their time to come out with all guns blazing and a ripping metal album, rather than rushing something out. Typical short-sightedness of the band.
As for the new song, had this come out in 2012, I would have loved it. But now, with all of the competition from so many great bands releasing albums, it just seems very pedestrian and "traditional metal-by-the-numbers". It's like their nostalgia driven focus of the last 6 years is starting to dry up, so now they're finally going to try some full-on metal and a big headline tour. It could also be indicative of Scott not being around, which gives Todd more creative input and allowing him to push his style of music into the band, rather than something more classic QR sounding. Too little, to late for me though.
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I have no problem with a short album as long as it's pretty spectacular. I'd rather have a rock solid short album than a so-so longer album.
And I'm sorry to call you out, Nick. But I'll say what I say every time this argument comes up: It is just a stupid, stupid argument. Long and good are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to get "so-so" at the expense of length. Give us 3-4 more songs to make the purchase worthwhile, even if those songs are B songs rather than A+ songs. Or take the time to add a bit of dimension to the songs to stretch them out and make them more interesting than verse/chorus/verse/chorus/solo/chorus. Sure the "godfathers of prog metal" (who are honestly no more prog than Warrant) could do that. But, no, 35 or 45 minutes of music, even if most of it is pretty good, just doesn't cut it unless you are selling the album as an EP and it is priced as such.
Anyway, that's enough from me on that. As for the new song, after one listen, I can say that I like it. It doesn't wow me. But then again, neither did Redemption or Arrow of Time at first. And Arrow of Time ended up being part of one of the band's strongest 4-song run in their discography. So my verdict thus far is: undecided, and fine with that.
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The new single "Man The Machine" is :metal :metal :metal
https://bravewords.com/news/queensryche-premiers-lyric-video-for-new-song-man-the-machine
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcDYVKfjg7Q
Official Lyric Video. All I have to say is "hail to deathmocracy?" :lol
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I have no problem with a short album as long as it's pretty spectacular. I'd rather have a rock solid short album than a so-so longer album.
And I'm sorry to call you out, Nick. But I'll say what I say every time this argument comes up: It is just a stupid, stupid argument. Long and good are not mutually exclusive. You don't have to get "so-so" at the expense of length. Give us 3-4 more songs to make the purchase worthwhile, even if those songs are B songs rather than A+ songs. Or take the time to add a bit of dimension to the songs to stretch them out and make them more interesting than verse/chorus/verse/chorus/solo/chorus. Sure the "godfathers of prog metal" (who are honestly no more prog than Warrant) could do that. But, no, 35 or 45 minutes of music, even if most of it is pretty good, just doesn't cut it unless you are selling the album as an EP and it is priced as such.
I mean, obviously I'd prefer 70 minutes of amazing music to 35 minutes of amazing music, but that's not always the choice. If a band only puts out a 35 minute album then I'd like to believe it's because they fully developed all the ideas they've had in a satisfying manner and don't feel they have anything strong to push beyond that. If that's the case then I'd rather they stop there than develop or add material that they knowingly don't think is as good as what they already have.
If your preference is to knowingly have B material (which itself may be generous on many longer albums) as well as A+ material to get an album longer that's fine, but it's not mine. I'd rather have something shorter where the overall album is stellar. Again, if you can do a fuller album or double album and still be stellar, fantastic, but not every person or band has that in them.
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Well said, Nick. :tup :tup
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It’s only YouTube so will wait but sounds very muddy to me. Sounds like an unused demo outtake from Operation Mindcrime. Fairly uninspired and one of Todd’s weakest vocals in my opinion. Don’t usually say this about drummers either but Rockenfield’s drumming style is sadly missed here, sounds like zero thought went into the drum parts.
Will need to hear more than this before shelling out for the album and I’m someone who likes the first two Toddryche albums quite a bit.
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If a band only puts out a 35 minute album then I'd like to believe it's because they fully developed all the ideas they've had in a satisfying manner and don't feel they have anything strong to push beyond that.
...or it means the band was lazy and didn't put in the effort. Or that they "don't feel they have anything strong to push beyond that" because they didn't put in the effort to do more. Given the track record from these guys, I'm not giving them a pass. They don't get the benefit of the doubt that they worked as hard as they could, and that the 45 minutes they came up with was fully satisfying and complete, and felt like the only material that was good enough for release. If 45 minutes worth is all they could come up with, they just aren't trying hard enough.
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In theory, I don't have a problem with a band making a 45 min CD.
BUT, this band is clearly doing the minimum.
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In theory, I don't have a problem with a band making a 45 min CD.
BUT, this band is clearly doing the minimum.
Same, in SOME circumstances. As I said, I gave them a pass for an even shorter album on the first one. The circumstances made it understandable. And they made an effort to include some bonus live tracks to make it more palatable. This time? My patience has run out.
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My patience ran out in 1997. :lol
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Is there anyone else who isn't a big fan of Todd's voice? I tried listening to Condition Human the other day and I just couldn't make it through the entire record. I'm not sure whether it is the delivery or what, but there is just something about it that I don't like. An example would be the word "crucified" at 0:43 of the new song. It's not crisp and clear, and just sounds overdone.
I also notice that when I am in the mood for some QR, I never even consider the new releases. The material just doesn't grab me and stick with me. I think a part of it is the generic nature of the material, as others have commented on. I don't find the songs as dynamic or as intriguing, and that's what separated early QR from the rest in my opinion. If you're writing an album filled with mostly ~4:00 metal songs these days, there has to be something there that makes those songs stand out, whether it be crafting the instruments into a melodic shape that supports the vocal melody, a chorus that grabs the listener, or a song structure that takes you on a different path. I guess the issue is that early QR set the bar so darn high in my eyes. How can they live up to that now? They found themselves in a position after the Geoff debacle of having to "go back to the roots" to reassure the fanbase that the wuss-rock was out and there was an edge to their sound again, but also modernize their sound, and in my opinion, in trying to do both they didn't do either one completely well. And then they go out and tour so very little of the new material - so why even bother trying to be more modern?
What summarizes modern QR for me? Confusion and lack of direction. They could prove me totally wrong with this next album. In fact, I hope they do because it means we would be listening to a stellar album. I'll give it a listen, but my expectations are low.
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um, ya....
just change the name already. there is nothing Queensryche about this.
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To me it is unmistakably Queensr˙che, it’s just not very good. Sounds like a band trying to recapture old glories but not quite having the inspiration to reach those heights. Hopefully there is better material to come.
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Is there anyone else who isn't a big fan of Todd's voice? I tried listening to Condition Human the other day and I just couldn't make it through the entire record. I'm not sure whether it is the delivery or what, but there is just something about it that I don't like. An example would be the word "crucified" at 0:43 of the new song. It's not crisp and clear, and just sounds overdone.
Not with Todd, but it definitely happens to me when I listen to anything by John Arch. Thank God for Ray Alder :lol
To me, the issue with Todd's voice, at least on the recordings, is that he sounds so proccesed and "digital". Some people complain about James LaBrie's voice being too processed for the studio albums, but I don't hear it too much vs Todd, who sounds VERY processed. Also, I think sometimes he tries too much to sound like old school Tate, and it doesn't always work.
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Todd's voice is thin, which to my ears, causes it to sound, for a lack of a suitable word, "sterile," on the studio recordings. There's not a lot of character in it. It is also why, to me, his voice isnt pleasing on half the Mindcrime stuff, and the Empire and PL material. It just doesnt suit his voice.
As for the new track, well, its one song, on YouTube. We'll see. My initial impression still stands after listening a couple more times.
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The new song starts out good enough, but that chorus is so weak :-\
I've started favoring shorter albums lately so 44 mins of music is totally fine with me, esp. when the bonus CD has so many tracks. Is it safe to assume Infrared and Open Road will be played on next year's tour?
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I've listened to the new tune a couple of times now and I'm digging it. I wanted them to go in a heavier direction from the first two TLT albums, and this is a little heavier for sure. Solid tune, no real complaints.
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Meh. After one listen, there's nothing really I can say I liked about that song to be honest. Just doesn't really sound anything like them. Quite bland, boring and generic, but it's one song, I'm still keen for the album.
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OK, song not interesting at all. Pass.
B.Lee
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The new song starts out good enough, but that chorus is so weak :-\
I've started favoring shorter albums lately so 44 mins of music is totally fine with me,
Signed. There's very few 70+ min albums I love without wanting to cut anything from them and I wish more prog bands would embrace shorter album lengths.
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Ok song is a better chorus away from being a really good song.
My sense is they put the harmony vocals way too high in the mix for the chorus and it ends up being the predominant vocal you hear instead of the main melody and the result is a bit wishy-washy.
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There's a lot that can be criticized about old and new Queensryche. The album length for me is not one of those points. 40-50 minute albums are just fine imo.
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It kind of depends on which kind of a band drops an album of such length. I would be puzzled by a 40-minute-long Dream Theater album as much as I would be puzzled by a 75-minute-long Weezer album.
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I would be puzzled that anyone would buy a Weezer album.
:backupslowly:
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His voice sounds very processed, I don't like that. But it wasn't a bad song, just nothing too memorable about it.
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I would be puzzled that anyone would buy a Weezer album.
:backupslowly:
:lol
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I would be puzzled that anyone would buy a Weezer album.
:backupslowly:
Would you be shocked to know I own every Weezer album then?
Cool tune. Defiantly moving towards an older sound with this.
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(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjrapwP9V0JTcQXs-TJ72xO8oUI-SDGhOBfPTHHqY0mXTk-R_C)
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(https://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/4/42/110Weezing.png/250px-110Weezing.png)
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GEOFF TATE Is Working On 'Phenomenal' QUEENSRźCHE 'Empire' 30th-Anniversary Box Set
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-is-working-on-phenomenal-queensryche-empire-30th-anniversary-box-set/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-is-working-on-phenomenal-queensryche-empire-30th-anniversary-box-set/)
My question is... I thought Geoff was only permitted to perform Mindcrime in its entirety. He's allowed to perform Empire in its entirety too?
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GEOFF TATE Is Working On 'Phenomenal' QUEENSRźCHE 'Empire' 30th-Anniversary Box Set
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-is-working-on-phenomenal-queensryche-empire-30th-anniversary-box-set/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-is-working-on-phenomenal-queensryche-empire-30th-anniversary-box-set/)
My question is... I thought Geoff was only permitted to perform Mindcrime in its entirety. He's allowed to perform Empire in its entirety too?
Others know better than I, but I believe the deal was that Geoff has the exclusive right to perform Mindcrime in its entirety. QR can still perform songs from the album but can't play the whole thing. I'm not aware of any other restrictions on either side.
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Kinda misleading article title there. I mean, it is technically accurate. But from the body of the article, Queensryche is putting out the release, and Tate is working with them and contributing. So the focus on him in the headline is, again, a bit misleading.
As far as him performing it, two things:
1. I noticed that he doesn't say that he will, but that he would "like to."
2. I am not sure the settlement said he could not[/i[] perform any other album in its entirety, but only that he had the exclusive rights to perform Mindcrime in its entirety. I don't know that the band maintained exclusive rights to other entire album performances. Maybe they did and that information either wasn't released or I am just forgetting. But it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't addressed.
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Original interview is here:
https://www.eonmusic.co.uk/geoff-tate-eonmusic-interview-november-2018.html
This is great news. Glad they are doing a box set. Empire deserves it.
Tate absolutely CAN play any tune from, and all of Empire, in sequence, if he wished to. The only thing stipulated was Mindcrime and Mindcrime II. That was what Tate requested. Empire in sequence and performance rights to that are open. I mean, I saw Tate play four songs from it earlier this year, and QR plays whatever they want from it now.
But Tate's comment is interesting for sure. Does he mean with his solo band, or does he mean with the band?
Either way, I don't care. I am just glad a 30th anniversary box for Empire is being done, and that Tate is contributing. I hope DeGarmo is contributing too. I'm sure he is. Wouldn't make a lot of sense if he didn't. Hopefully the box set meets lofty expectations. I can't wait to check it out.
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I have mixed feelings. Despite my recent frustrations with the band, I will gladly pay for a box set of one of my favorite albums of all time IF it is worth it. If it is overpriced, or if there aren't a sufficient amount of exclusives to make it worthwhile, I won't get it. My days of being a QR completist are long since gone. And while I hate to be a pessimist, they have a history of doing things in a half-baked way rather that putting in the minimal effort it would take to put out something truly special. So I am in "wait and see" mode.
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re: Anybody Listening?
The original Queensryche performed it very little. They did play it live four or five times on January 3, 1992 in Spokane, Washington, in order to get the live footage for the music video for the song. https://anybodylistening.net/1-3-92.html
In addition, they played it acoustically on April 27, 1992, at the MTV Unplugged session - https://anybodylistening.net/4-27-92.html
FInally, they also played it in-full at the June 6, 1992 Rock the Environment benefit show - https://anybodylistening.net/6-6-92.html
To my knowledge, that was the last time the ORIGINAL lineup of Queensryche played the song live. So, three apperances (albeit the first time it was a number of times).
Post-original lineup, Queensryche played it in 2003 on the Tribe headline tour, maybe once or twice. I saw it myself in October 2003, at the Westbury Music Fair, on Long Island. But it wasn't technically in-concert. They did it in-full at soundcheck, but didn't play it during the show.
Then it fell off the map again until 2008. They played it at the Pain in the Grass Festival outside of Seattle, that summer (August, I believe).
After that, I'm honestly not sure. Probably just a couple of times. I remember Michael once saying that since the song is a tad longer, it generally takes up two song slots in the setlist, so they don't do it much.
I'm not sure if the band post-Tate has ever done it live. I saw the TLT-fronted band...man, I don't know, eight or nine times, and they didn't do it then. I know they've done it in rehearsal, though. Parker mentioned that he thought TLT nailed it and it sounded good.
I have mixed feelings. Despite my recent frustrations with the band, I will gladly pay for a box set of one of my favorite albums of all time IF it is worth it. If it is overpriced, or if there aren't a sufficient amount of exclusives to make it worthwhile, I won't get it. My days of being a QR completist are long since gone. And while I hate to be a pessimist, they have a history of doing things in a half-baked way rather that putting in the minimal effort it would take to put out something truly special. So I am in "wait and see" mode.
I completely understand. I am not a completist any longer of the band in-total, but I am with the original lineup. This is an automatic buy for me.
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I just hope it (the box set) has something worthwhile that was previously unreleased. A few odd live tracks and a track or two from the Unplugged show probably won't cut it for me. I mean, I guess for a "box set," there will probably be enough extras in total to please everybody, which will include some stuff that was previously released, some extra live stuff to pad it, and some new stuff. I'm not expecting 30-60 minutes of brand new exclusive material. But at least a couple of new things would be nice. They actually did a pretty good job with the deluxe edition of Sign of the Times, a few years back. Between giving a pretty complete set of their bonus songs/B-sides, some of the Myth demos, and a few other rarities, it was a great compilation. I know there was something else that a few "in-the-know" fans were upset wasn't included, but I forget what that was now. I'm not sure what else exists that is truly unreleased would make sense on this release, but I'm hopeful there is something to sink our teeth into.
Regarding Anybody Listening?, I seem to have a vague recollection of it being in rotation on a tour in the '00s (maybe a leg of the Take Cover tour?), but I could be misremembering. I will defer to Samsara on that.
EDIT: Oh, and revisiting the track list on Sign of the Times has also made me remember that I was ever so slightly miffed at the band for putting out an official release that included Last Time in Paris. After spending hours of my time in the '90s scouring various bins at used CD stores to finally find a copy of the Ford Fairlane soundtrack, I was selfishly a bit annoyed that anybody and everybody could now have that track. :lol
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Here is what I'd like to see from an Empire 30th box set:
1. The CD, with a non-redlined remaster (needs to be done)
2. Empire on 2 LP of the new remaster version mentioned above. (May be redundant given the pressing earlier this year.)
3. The Empire demos and alternate versions on CD (all of us bootleg collectors have this stuff, but I know the masters of it all exist and they all have copies).
4. A complete 2 DVD or 1 Blu-ray (if shot in high enough quality) live show from the tour that isn't LIVEcrime, along with a companion 2 CD set of the same show.
5. MTV Unplugged, complete (CD and DVD) - it exists, so fingers crossed.
6. Building Empires on Blu-ray (if shot in high enough quality to re-render)
7. Re-release of Empire as a 5.1 remix (exists on the now out-of-print Empire DVD-A).
8. Huge hardcover book with all the live photos of the band and candids from the tour, along with the stage setups, and commentary from the band
9. Band image lithos of the imagery from the liner notes of the original LP
10. Extra DVD with a new, hour-long documentary/interview with all five original members together, discussing the making of Empire, the songs, the tour, and the band during this time period.
For me, that's the wish list. Personally, I'd pay $250 for that. Metallica's for And Justice for All was on Amazon for 189.99, plus tax, so it was 200 (I paid 236 with tax and shipping from Metallica directly). So I'd be fine with spending that and a little more on this, just because of my fandom of the original lineup of Queensryche. But it would need to include the above stuff. If they cheap out, and just re-cycle previously released stuff, I am not sure I could justify it.
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I'd be happy with 1, 3, 4, and 5. 10 would be incredible, but I would be shocked if that materialized.
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Would love to have an audio cd of the MTV unplugged show.
Would definitely try to get this box set if anything close to Samsara's list is released.
Was the 2010 release remastered?
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Was the 2010 release remastered?
No. The 25th anniversary edition re-packaged the 2003 remaster with the bonus live stuff. So if you have the 2003 version, you have the 2010 version, sonically.
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That MTV Unplugged show needs an official release no question!
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Dear Santa,
Here is what I'd like:
1. The CD, with a non-redlined remaster (needs to be done)
2. Empire on 2 LP of the new remaster version mentioned above. (May be redundant given the pressing earlier this year.)
3. The Empire demos and alternate versions on CD (all of us bootleg collectors have this stuff, but I know the masters of it all exist and they all have copies).
4. A complete 2 DVD or 1 Blu-ray (if shot in high enough quality) live show from the tour that isn't LIVEcrime, along with a companion 2 CD set of the same show.
5. MTV Unplugged, complete (CD and DVD) - it exists, so fingers crossed.
6. Building Empires on Blu-ray (if shot in high enough quality to re-render)
7. Re-release of Empire as a 5.1 remix (exists on the now out-of-print Empire DVD-A).
8. Huge hardcover book with all the live photos of the band and candids from the tour, along with the stage setups, and commentary from the band
9. Band image lithos of the imagery from the liner notes of the original LP
10. Extra DVD with a new, hour-long documentary/interview with all five original members together, discussing the making of Empire, the songs, the tour, and the band during this time period.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2nhr1v.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/2nhr1v) (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator[/url)
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Seriously, TAC, half of that probably won't happen. My guess is:
Empire re-mastered again
Repackaging of whole show released on 25th anniversary releases of Mindcrime and Empire
Disc of b-sides (repackaged) that include Last Time in Paris (which was in those sessions) and some demos.
Probably a 4 CD set with a small book, featuring some new liner notes by Tate and DeGarmo.
That's probably more like reality. Which is a bit of a bummer. But we'll wait and see.
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Probably Scarborough Fair as well, since that was a B-side for one of the singles from that era if I remember correctly.
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I was happy to get Last Time In Paris. That was what sold me.
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I was happy to get Last Time In Paris. That was what sold me.
??? What are you talking about? It isn't out yet.
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The original remaster that Sam was talking about.
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The original remaster that Sam was talking about.
Yep, 2003 edition, bosk.
The problem I had with that (aside from the poor remastering job), was a historical inaccuracy. They lumped Dirty Lil Secret onto it. That track is actually a Promised Land b-side. As far as I can tell, it came on one of the singles from that album (I think it was Bridge). I love that tune. A quirky one, just like Last Time in Paris.
Dirty Lil Secret is one of the tunes I can't find any official information on. Wiki lists DeGarmo, Tate as the writers, and Northfield as the engineer, which would indicate Empire. But I think that listing is inaccurate and a stopgap. Looking at BMI, where the catalog is listed for DeGarmo and Tate, the song isn't even on there. But unless it was written specifically written for Empire, but released during PL, that's the only way it would belong on Empire. But I remember people asking about that song, and the band saying it was written around the same time as Real World, which was post-Empire. I wish it could be clarified.
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Yeah, it was a B-side for Bridge. I don't know anything beyond that, but I do have a physical copy of that single, so I can look and see if there is anything printed in the booklet when I get home. There typically isn't much for tracks like that, but you never know.
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I'll take a look as well. It has been 15 years since I even touched that CD single. Like you said, the liner may have some more detail.
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The box set would have to be pretty special for me to spend money on it. I think the Unplugged MTV show on DVD and CD might do the trick though.
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Regarding Anybody Listening?, I seem to have a vague recollection of it being in rotation on a tour in the '00s (maybe a leg of the Take Cover tour?), but I could be misremembering. I will defer to Samsara on that.
I'm pretty sure it was the American Soldier tour, which was the last time I saw them live. On that tour, they did 3 album "suites" of songs, starting with a bunch from RFO, then AS and finally Empire. And I believe that Anybody Listening made a number of appearances on that tour.
Actually, I just checked setlist.fm and it's supposedly been played 156 times now - plenty in 2008, 2009 and 2016, besides a handful of times in 1992, 2003 and 2004.
I'd be happy with 1, 3, 4, and 5. 10 would be incredible, but I would be shocked if that materialized.
Ditto for me. A book would be cool, but I have no need for vinyl or for a 5.1 version of the album, and would prefer not to have to pay extra for that stuff just to get something I would value.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/2nhr1v.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/2nhr1v)
(https://imgflip.com/memegenerator[/url)
Haha no kidding! I can't imagine liking any album enough to warrant wanting hardly anything on that list. But Samsara does like himself some QR!
Incidentally, this inspired me to listen to Empire again. It has been ages. Half way through now, forgot how great it is.
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I usually don't bother with remasters/box-sets, but my one hope is that they ditch the stupid 15-second silences at the end of the album that were on the other remasters.
Also cutting out the end of Anybody Listening would be nice, but I don't really mind.
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And to think that every CDr I have burned has a fifteen second track of silence added at the end.....
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I usually don't bother with remasters/box-sets, but my one hope is that they ditch the stupid 15-second silences at the end of the album that were on the other remasters.
Didn't know this. But never really paid any attention either though.
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And to think that every CDr I have burned has a fifteen second track of silence added at the end.....
They're there on spotify too. That's the only reason I noticed.
(https://i.imgur.com/dK43yUo.png)
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Anybody else bummed that a 30th-anniversary box set won't be out until some time in 2020? :corn
Here is what I'd like to see from an Empire 30th box set:
1. The CD, with a non-redlined remaster (needs to be done)
2. Empire on 2 LP of the new remaster version mentioned above. (May be redundant given the pressing earlier this year.)
3. The Empire demos and alternate versions on CD (all of us bootleg collectors have this stuff, but I know the masters of it all exist and they all have copies).
4. A complete 2 DVD or 1 Blu-ray (if shot in high enough quality) live show from the tour that isn't LIVEcrime, along with a companion 2 CD set of the same show.
5. MTV Unplugged, complete (CD and DVD) - it exists, so fingers crossed.
6. Building Empires on Blu-ray (if shot in high enough quality to re-render)
7. Re-release of Empire as a 5.1 remix (exists on the now out-of-print Empire DVD-A).
8. Huge hardcover book with all the live photos of the band and candids from the tour, along with the stage setups, and commentary from the band
9. Band image lithos of the imagery from the liner notes of the original LP
10. Extra DVD with a new, hour-long documentary/interview with all five original members together, discussing the making of Empire, the songs, the tour, and the band during this time period.
For me, that's the wish list. Personally, I'd pay $250 for that. Metallica's for And Justice for All was on Amazon for 189.99, plus tax, so it was 200 (I paid 236 with tax and shipping from Metallica directly). So I'd be fine with spending that and a little more on this, just because of my fandom of the original lineup of Queensryche. But it would need to include the above stuff. If they cheap out, and just re-cycle previously released stuff, I am not sure I could justify it.
^This!
Metallica's recent box sets should be the minimum standard, to which other bands look for guidance.
DVD's would be adequate, but considering how much of their stuff was shot on film (music videos, concerts (LIVEcrime), Building Empires etc.), a Blu-ray would be preferrable. Even stuff shot on video tape back in the day, can look quite nice if it's allowed to breathe on a Blu-ray, compared to an old DVD compression.
All things considered, it's nice to see that they're all able to work together in some form :tup
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re: Anybody Listening on the American Soldier tour.
Setlist.fm is often wrong, however, Scotty is right. It was played a handful of times. I don't think it was 156 times total like setlist.fm says, but it was played.
I saw the American Soldier tour, and I had to leave early (I had a meeting at 8 a.m. the next day, and the show was almost two hours from where I lived). I discovered later that they played Anybody Listening that night, which really bummed me out.
But I wouldn't trust setlist.fm for accuracy. Anybody Listening was played in 1992 as I mentioned, a handful of times, and then sporadically in 2003, 2004, and again in 2008-2009. But not equaling 156. There's no way. And as for the current lineup and a 2016 performance, I wouldn't know. So perhaps that's right.
Metallica's recent box sets should be the minimum standard, to which other bands look for guidance.
DVD's would be adequate, but considering how much of their stuff was shot on film (music videos, concerts (LIVEcrime), Building Empires etc.), a Blu-ray would be preferrable. Even stuff shot on video tape back in the day, can look quite nice if it's allowed to breathe on a Blu-ray, compared to an old DVD compression.
All things considered, it's nice to see that they're all able to work together in some form :tup
Unfortunately, while I agree Metallica's sets should be the minimum standard, most bands don't have the budget to do what they are doing. The hugely successful ones do, but Queensryche, not so much. If I understand the technology correctly, there's quite a bit of work transferring film and making it into Blu-ray. You might know better than me, since you do all the video upgrading, but something about how if it was shot in 4:3, it can be resequenced to widescreen, but you lose some stuff if you do. So it'd be a straight conversion to 4:3, which some people dislike given newer standards. I'm thinking back to X-Files, where it was discussed they had some issues with that.
Agreed though - I'd love to have it all on Blu-ray at a minimum, but I am just not sure the budget will be there.
And yes, it is nice that they are working together on the project. :)
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Regarding Anybody Listening?, I seem to have a vague recollection of it being in rotation on a tour in the '00s (maybe a leg of the Take Cover tour?), but I could be misremembering. I will defer to Samsara on that.
I'm pretty sure it was the American Soldier tour, which was the last time I saw them live. On that tour, they did 3 album "suites" of songs, starting with a bunch from RFO, then AS and finally Empire. And I believe that Anybody Listening made a number of appearances on that tour.
Yes, that sounds right now that you mention it. I thought I remembered that it was in rotation during that general timeframe.
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I see that Queensryche have confirmed on twitter in response to Eddie Trunk that Todd played drums on the new album. Something like they're still waiting for Scot to make a statement on his future and they preferred to keep the drumming in house rather than use an outside drummer.
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I see that Queensryche have confirmed on twitter in response to Eddie Trunk that Todd played drums on the new album. Something like they're still waiting for Scot to make a statement on his future and they preferred to keep the drumming in house rather than use an outside drummer.
...and they couldn't have said that a year ago? :lol
I mean, that framing and message is fine, and would have been fine a long time before now. Best of luck to them on the record. Still personally on the fence whether I am staying for QR's portion of the set the two nights I am seeing the tour. It depends if PG gets his butt up north. If that happens, I'll watch QR live for the first time in five years. :lol
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I have to give the regulars in this thread mad props. I don't think we can find another band that has been crap for such a long stretch (literally decades!), yet have their main thread stay active and on page 1 like this one does. Well done. :tup :tup
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So not even the band knows if Scott is in the band. This is a weird and unexpected development.
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So not even the band knows if Scott is in the band. This is a weird and unexpected development.
I don't buy that at all. They likely know everything about what's going on with him, but don't want to, or aren't allowed to reveal it to the public yet. So why not put the onus on him, since he's been silent for two years?
If everything were still good and Scott were still just just taking time off from touring, they'd say so. The fact that the party line went from "he's on paternity leave" to "he's still on leave" to "he hasn't told us jack shit lately" says to me that they're not on speaking terms with him anymore.
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I have to give the regulars in this thread mad props. I don't think we can find another band that has been crap for such a long stretch (literally decades!), yet have their main thread stay active and on page 1 like this one does. Well done. :tup :tup
To be fair, since 2011-ish, the ratio of comments related to band drama compared to new music is probably 50:1.
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I love Empire but this will need something pretty special to make me fork out for it again. I have the original vinyl, cd and cassette, the DVD Audio, a promo version with 3d tri ryche, the remaster with bonus tracks. I’m not sure what’s left to include. An unreleased live show perhaps. Blu Ray with a decent interview and videos?
Marillion’s recent rereleases of Misplaced Childhood And Clutching At Straws has set the bar so it needs to impress.
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Marillion’s recent rereleases of Misplaced Childhood And Clutching At Straws has set the bar so it needs to impress.
Did they do one for Script?
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Marillion’s recent rereleases of Misplaced Childhood And Clutching At Straws has set the bar so it needs to impress.
I have the Misplaced Childhood one. Good price point for what you get. But this Empire one being a box set, I think the bar is really along the lines of Soundgarden's one for Badmotorfinger. That was an incredible box.
p.s. if anyone's interested (crickets, I hear crickets), I wrote up a blog that discusses some of the "wish list" items discussed above for the Empire box set -- https://anybodylistening.net/empire-30thanniversary.html
Blog series at www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
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This cricket found it interesting....but, you aren't asking for a lot, are you? ;)
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This cricket found it interesting....but, you aren't asking for a lot, are you? ;)
It was a top-5 wish list. ;)
But here's the thing, that's not a big ask. Or it shouldn't be. Maybe at this point, #2, the sit down conversation, may be asking a lot, given the situation, but not really. With a landmark album like this, it should be done right. And the one thing I think is a positive, is that it is 2018, and this will likely be released summer 2020, and they are already at work at it. So hopefully, it is done correctly, with the right amount of attention paid to the details.
Thanks for reading!
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A+ blog. Would read again.
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This cricket found it interesting....but, you aren't asking for a lot, are you? ;)
It was a top-5 wish list. ;)
But here's the thing, that's not a big ask. Or it shouldn't be. Maybe at this point, #2, the sit down conversation, may be asking a lot, given the situation, but not really. With a landmark album like this, it should be done right. And the one thing I think is a positive, is that it is 2018, and this will likely be released summer 2020, and they are already at work at it. So hopefully, it is done correctly, with the right amount of attention paid to the details.
Thanks for reading!
Fish and Marillion managed it for those deluxe editions I mentioned. You could see i5 was a bit of a strain on the Clutching video as that album was very difficult and lead to the break up.
It would certainly be interesting to see Geoff back in the same room, and CDG. Won’t hold my breath.
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A+ blog.
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A+ blog.
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The Queensryche Official forum Admin confirmed that the band themselves will not be involved in this project (big surprise there.... ::)) and that a label, presumably EMI, reached out to Tate for the project. Since it is a prior Queensryche release (and likely including only older recordings and nothing newly recorded), Tate is allowed to assemble a box set under the Queensryche name.
This band is so incredibly good at stumbling over their own feet. Fans are eating up these packages and re-releases from other bands, but they have no interest in doing anything.
Here's to hoping Todd is right based on a facebook response and they'll at least include more new songs in their setlists.
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The Queensryche Official forum Admin confirmed that the band themselves will not be involved in this project (big surprise there.... ::)) and that a label, presumably EMI, reached out to Tate for the project. Since it is a prior Queensryche release (and likely including only older recordings and nothing newly recorded), Tate is allowed to assemble a box set under the Queensryche name.
This band is so incredibly good at stumbling over their own feet. Fans are eating up these packages and re-releases from other bands, but they have no interest in doing anything. ::)
Unbelievable. How in the hell are Wilton and Jackson (who are the only ones left in the band, IMO) OK with this? It's like they don't care, and that's just a smack in the face (yet another) to the fan base.
Here's hoping Tate asks Rockenfield and most importantly, DeGarmo, to be involved with it all.
Shit like this is why I just don't give a fuck about current Queensryche any more (among other reasons) other than watching the train wreck. I still think Capitol (who I assume own the rights to the catalog) will do a good job. They did a good job on the Sign of the Times package, so given the financial success of Empire, I'm guessing there will be a decent budget for this. And if Tate is contributing liner notes and other stuff, it should be fine. But fingers crossed for some involvement by DeGarmo. I think it's really necessary, especially given that Wilton and Jackson aren't involved. Unreal.
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These are the two direct quotes from the Admin, who claimed that it was just Tate spouting off, and then was corrected by the band or their reps:
Just to be clear, this is Tate spewing his mouth once again, without knowledge or the right to do so. From what I understand, the band are not involved and if they are, Tate certainly isn't and won't be.
They bought him out, remember?
Read more: https://queensrycheofficialforum.com/thread/1951/empire-30th-anniversary#ixzz5YdMWxNA6
I stand to be corrected. It "seems" that a label did reach out to Tate to do 'whatever' with the Empire album, I don't know which label, but have to think it could be EMI (USA) or a subsidiary of them. However, the band will not be involved from my understanding. I was under the impression that Tate was not allowed to record anything under the Queensryche moniker, but because this is an older release, it seems he can (although that still doesn't sound right to me). Who knew? Well apparently we all do now ;)
If I find out more, then I will share if I can...just wanted to be sure I wasn't misleading anyone with my original comment. Sorry, carry on....
Read more: https://queensrycheofficialforum.com/thread/1951/empire-30th-anniversary#ixzz5YdMb1zEd
It's really sad when the ex-singer has more interest in certain releases than the band themselves. Hopefully the re-release comes to fruition - I'd love to see some cool Empire-era stuff come out of the vaults.
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Where is all this re-record talk coming from? I mean, I want nothing to do with Tate now doing new recordings for Empire, or any of that.
I mean, if he simply shepherds the project, providing liner notes and stuff from the archive, that's fine. But it better not be his current band or Kelly Gray, or anyone else doing anything. It should only be the stuff from the actual Empire sessions with Tate, DeGarmo, Wilton, Jackson, Rockenfield.
The band should be ashamed of themselves for not caring enough to get involved.
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Maybe the band is looking into the legal aspect/options of this situation before commenting on the Empire re-release.
If there's one area where QR are experts, it's on the legal side :rollin
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Here's the thing, this isn't unlike anything else the label has done over the years.
Empire DVD-A -- label reached out to Tate and to DeGarmo for the interview and whatnot
Sign of the Times Best Of Compilation - label reached out to Tate and to DeGarmo for content and interviews.
This is the same thing. The only differences are that Tate is not in the band any longer, and people are hyper-sensitive to his involvement. When at the end of the day, it likely isn't a big deal. And my guess is, the label probably has asked Chris again to contribute, and given his track record of saying yes previously, I don't see any reason he wouldn't this time. All of these projects are label-driven, so there's no reason to suspect anything will be "bad" just because current Queensryche (which only features Eddie and Michael from the original band anyway) has had a representative say they aren't participating.
Frankly, QR and QR's current mgmt (whoever that is these days, since they've switched a ton of times) looks dumb for not reaching out to the label and asking to be involved. I am sure Michael and Eddie have stuff to contribute. By not doing so, the only ones who look bad in this situation are QR -- not Tate or the label. It just looks like Eddie and MIchael don't care, which is not what they want.
But their social media person came off as arrogant and snotty, which is no surprise to me, but it just made QR look bad. Again.
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Frankly, QR and QR's current mgmt (whoever that is these days, since they've switched a ton of times) looks dumb for not reaching out to the label and asking to be involved.
Can't really fault them if they really did just find out about this, the same way/time as the rest of us.
You also mentioned the label reached out to Geoff... Which label is this? Did all of the old catalogue stuff transfer to Century Media, with which the band is currently signed. Or is there another label keeping taps on the old stuff? :yeahright
I hope Geoff (and whoever is involved) pulls out something nice from the archives. I recall 1 or 2 years ago, Geoff mentioned somewhere that he had been looking through old footage from the Promised Land tour... Here's hoping :corn
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Can't really fault them if they really did just find out about this, the same way/time as the rest of us.
You also mentioned the label reached out to Geoff... Which label is this? Did all of the old catalogue stuff transfer to Century Media, with which the band is currently signed. Or is there another label keeping taps on the old stuff? :yeahright
I don't fault the band for not knowing. But there are better ways for a representative a band to react. That admin came off poorly, particularly the first response, and cast the band in a bad light with her posts overall. All she had to do was react with "we're looking into it. Sounds like the label contacted Geoff directly," and left it at that. Instead, she had to insult the guy, starting with "Just to be clear, this is Tate spewing his mouth once again..." And that reflects poorly on the band to have someone representing them, and saying that.
That whole "Geoff is the enemy" mantra is old. I'm not saying they should be forced to reunite with the guy. All I am saying is, there should be a public image of positivity and unity coming from those who speak for the band, instead of the vitriol. It's called class, and that tone used by the admin had none of it.
I hope Geoff (and whoever is involved) pulls out something nice from the archives. I recall 1 or 2 years ago, Geoff mentioned somewhere that he had been looking through old footage from the Promised Land tour... Here's hoping :corn
I remember that too. They all have stuff, so with some luck, maybe we'll get some good audio and video treats from back in the day.
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I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got.
BUT. I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved. ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out". I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.
I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.
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Yeah, but.... there was that interview with Jason Slater where he said that Michael Wilton at least was writing a lot of stuff and he basically was locked out. I'm sure a little apathy on their part contributed to the situation they found themselves in, but that's probably just one piece of it.
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Yeah, but.... there was that interview with Jason Slater where he said that Michael Wilton at least was writing a lot of stuff and he basically was locked out. I'm sure a little apathy on their part contributed to the situation they found themselves in, but that's probably just one piece of it.
It's not mutually exclusive - maybe Wilton wrote great songs but didn't care about the setlists, or coming up with new things to keep the fans interested, or the business side of things... there's plenty of bands that work like that, with one person doing the heavy lifting and at the same time trying to incorporate everyone's ideas into something cohesive. It's just that in their case, that person was also uniquely greedy, uninterested in the genre their fans were interested in, and wasn't trying to incorporate anyone's ideas.
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I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got.
BUT. I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved. ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out". I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.
I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.
Aside from the immature, petty namecalling, I agree with every word of this.
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I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got.
BUT. I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved. ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out". I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.
I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.
Aside from the immature, petty namecalling, I agree with every word of this.
They should have called it a day after DeGarmo left.
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I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got.
BUT. I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved. ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out". I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.
I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.
Tate wasn't lying when he said he was the one who wanted to work. Michael wrote all the time, and had a ton of riffs. Slater wasn't lying about that either. But Michael's writing style isn't quite like say a guy such as DeGarmo, or even Slater. Those guys came in with complete songs. Michael came in with riffs and sections (most of the time) that were pieced together (from what I'm told). That frustrated Tate, who couldn't really write over a piece of a song. He needed a full song that he felt moved by. Michael's writing is more collaborative. Thus the problem between him and Tate, artistically.
Yeah, but.... there was that interview with Jason Slater where he said that Michael Wilton at least was writing a lot of stuff and he basically was locked out. I'm sure a little apathy on their part contributed to the situation they found themselves in, but that's probably just one piece of it.
It's not mutually exclusive - maybe Wilton wrote great songs but didn't care about the setlists, or coming up with new things to keep the fans interested, or the business side of things... there's plenty of bands that work like that, with one person doing the heavy lifting and at the same time trying to incorporate everyone's ideas into something cohesive. It's just that in their case, that person was also uniquely greedy, uninterested in the genre their fans were interested in, and wasn't trying to incorporate anyone's ideas.
Mora hit the nail on the head with the bolded part of what she said. Tate is not, and has never been a guy that likes pure metal. Wilton is. That's why the combination of DeGarmo-Tate-Wilton worked so well together. Wilton could come up with a riff, then Chris would add to it and construct the song in a way that would appeal to Tate, who would then write the lyrics and work with DeGarmo on getting the right melody. It was a perfect writing trio for what Queensryche was -- a rock band with both metal and progressive/moody elements.
When the Kelly Gray era failed, and the reunion with DeGarmo crashed and burned (from what was said, that was largely Tate pushing back against him, but who knows what the truth is), Tate just took control, and that led to...working with Slater and other writers to get music created. Was it the "RIGHT" way to proceed? Not to me, not by a long shot. But that was what Tate chose. And predictably, because Tate was not really a metal guy, Slater encountered the same issues Wilton did, but in a less stonewalled way because Slater wrote and arranged full songs on his own -- Slater would come up with something heavy, and it morphed into something a little less heavy. Or, Tate picked songs from Slater's drives of demos he'd made, and they'd be softer stuff. Tate can't help that -- he likes what he likes. But what I think Tate didn't quite understand was that you can't take over a band and drive it in the way you'd drive a solo record...particularly a band like Queensryche. You HAVE to compromise and work with what you have, otherwise that's not a band.
I think Tate gets that now, and why he refers to Operation: Mindcrime as not a band, but a project. Its essentially his solo project, not a static band with established writers.
But back to jammindude's point, I'm not sure if the situation is the same now. They write collaboratively, so its not about the music creation. I think the financial landscape of their situation has changed dramatically, which makes real life an issue. You have to remember, Wilton and Jackson have known nothing but Queensryche, and earning a living from Queensryche, since they were 18, 19 years old. They know nothing else. So, if life has made it so that they've had to make changes in how they live, work, etc., that could impact not only when and how they write/record music, but also in how they support it.
I think most people know I'm not fond of La Torre's singing these days, but I will give him this -- he worked for years as an every day guy just like us, so I find it really doubtful that he'd be impatient with the guys, if indeed real life has impacted how they had to do things. Him of all people in that band would get it.
But I think Queensryche is in for a surprise, and not in a good way, with The Verdict. With Scott not a part of it, that takes away another feel element of the band, and I think after the predictable hard core fans buying the album and the pre-sales in the first week or two, the album will crash. Not because it won't be good (It'll probably be very good), but because it'll probably sound less like old QR, and interest is waning in the band overall, particularly since it now only has two original members.
I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got.
BUT. I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved. ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out". I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.
I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.
Aside from the immature, petty namecalling, I agree with every word of this.
They should have called it a day after DeGarmo left.
In retrospect, amen, romdrums. Although on a personal note, my life would have been very different (likely wouldn't have met my wife) had that happened. So I am happy they continued.
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I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got.
BUT. I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved. ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out". I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.
I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.
Aside from the immature, petty namecalling, I agree with every word of this.
I'm a pretty easy going guy. I cannot think of anyone at all on this planet that I've personally met that I would say was a truly terrible human being.....except Geoff Tate. Yes, I have met him. I've also met several local and national personalities who have met him. The only people I've ever met who said he was nice were people who met him in a line at a meet and greet. Anyone...everyone actually...who has ever actually met the man gives the same stories. Geoff Tate is a legitimately terrible human being.
Name calling is not my goto default position. He's just the only person I've personally met who is completely unworthy of any respect. And even though he is that terrible, I will still give him credit for trying to do the best he could with the dysfunctional band that he was trying to lead.
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I understand. But I still disagree with stooping to that level, even if you or I might feel it is deserved.
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I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got.
BUT. I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved. ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out". I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.
I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.
From the casual observer it seems like QR just can't be bothered to write music or do anything really.
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Man the Machine... the title instantly brought NM156 to my mind. Afterwards I realized that "man" might also be a verb. Oh well.
Anyway, it's a solid rocking tune. Not an instant classic, but a good song overall.
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re: Dirty Lil' Secret
Yeah, it was a B-side for Bridge. I don't know anything beyond that, but I do have a physical copy of that single, so I can look and see if there is anything printed in the booklet when I get home. There typically isn't much for tracks like that, but you never know.
I finally got around to checking this weekend. It was a b-side for "I Am I," specifically, the little cardboard sleeve version with a bunch of swag in it. Either way, credits list it as DeGarmo/Tate.
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Interesting. I could have sworn it was for Bridge because I remember buying the single, which I normally don't do, specifically for that song, and I have no recollection of buying I Am I. I'll have to check when I get home now.
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Interesting. I could have sworn it was for Bridge because I remember buying the single, which I normally don't do, specifically for that song, and I have no recollection of buying I Am I. I'll have to check when I get home now.
I pulled out the standard Bridge single (there were a few) and it wasn't on there, and I Am I was next to it, and I pulled that one and it is on there. It very well could be on one of the other versions of the Bridge single. I didn't look once I found the track and writing credits.
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I'm not doubting you. But my memory is obviously playing tricks on me. Well, it was a long time ago, so... I guess that makes sense. I remember the Bridge single because it was such an obvious "single" choice. I have less recollection of the I Am I single, probably just because it never really got any traction as a single. But I was never a completist when it came to buying things that gave me only songs that I already had, so I wouldn't have bought either simply for the single. So I must have bought the I Am I single then, and just remembered the more prominent Bridge single.
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Dark Reverie has been released on Spotify! (https://open.spotify.com/track/66zvcxvU1giCMxqPyg60u7?si=jktUJW7pR4iGO139HlXxSw)
It's quite poppy & the mix is kinda eh, but it's a decent track nonetheless.
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Yeah, just heard that. I like it but first impressions were that it sounded rushed, like they wanted to get through the track as quick as possible. I could certainly hear this being done at a slower tempo, like Open Road.
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I think both Man The Machine and Dark Reverie both have the issue of having an underwhelming first chorus. MTM just skips it entirely & DR only has half of it (which is only about 10 seconds). If I end up buying this album, I'm probably going to edit it so all the songs have the proper chorus after the first verse. It'd be the only time I've edited an album to make it longer. :lol
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Much prefer Dark Reverie to the first single, enjoyable song and decent melody, nothing mind blowing but still a nice song.
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Yeah, just heard that. I like it but first impressions were that it sounded rushed, like they wanted to get through the track as quick as possible. I could certainly hear this being done at a slower tempo, like Open Road.
I agree. this song was better than the first track released, still doesn't sound like the QR I grew up with though.
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Hmm.
It's OK. I think as a band, they've shown growth over the last couple of records, but I am not sure I like the direction. Both of these songs have bland choruses, and honestly, both have very little in common with classic Queensryche to my ears. That's not a bad thing, I mean lets face it, the songwriting thread of classic Queensryche was DeGarmo-Tate-Wilton, and now it is La Torre-Jackson-Lundgren-Wilton, so it is bound to be very different. That sort of sonic evolutionary path that they revived with the self-titled has been shed a bit, and they've moved in a different direction from that point.
I'm just not sure I like what they are doing. I have my biases for sure, but I really am cognizant of it and I am trying to listen without those. I just don't feel like this song goes anywhere. It was on and over. Washed in keyboards, and a little bit of La Torre's penchant for 80s ballad stuff. (Just like that song from Condition Human that people loved that I thought was an 80s power ballad). Again, its not a bad tune, just not my thing, and certainly not very memorable, at least for me.
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DR is super-meh for me. TLT is now the MVP in the band, and he's basically (an admittedly excellent) Tate impersonator without the magic something. The songs need to be better than this. I mean, what is the point of this song? That's an accusation you can point at most bands but meh.
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Having heard La Torre now for seven years, I really think that the "Tate-clone" description of La Torre is off-base. I hear it in some of La Torre's phrasing, for sure. But I also hear Dickinson at times too. Plus, La Torre's voice is a lot thinner and less powerful than Tate's. Even now. Sure, La Torre can hit notes in the higher registers that Tate would struggle with these days. There's no doubt about that. And what Todd can't hit, he screams over (notice most of the time now, he doesn't hit the Queen of the Reich stuff, he screams it instead of sings it). Tate isn't a screamer.
But the thing Tate has over La Torre, even now, is this more commanding, deeper, powerful tone and resonance that really is illustrated on some of the Mindcrime stuff, and the Empire and PL stuff for sure. The songs just sound fuller with Tate singing them, because they were written for a richer voice. Todd does them well, and its not a criticism of him at all. He sings them just fine, and his natural voice comes through. But that voice isn't as rich as Tate's, and so that sort of exposes things a bit.
The fact of the matter is, both singers are very distinct from one another. La Torre was just influenced by Tate so much (particularly from The Warning era) that some of that phrasing is close, which draws the "clone" talk out. When in reality, they are both have very different voices.
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I agree. I like Todd's singing, but you are absolutely right about the distinction between his and Tate's singing.
I think Todd tried a lot harder on the s/t to imitate Tate's phrasing, which was appropriate at that time. While he still does it somewhat, I think the fact that he has gotten away from it and done his own thing on the last two (including this release) is also appropriate.
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I respect the analysis, and agree they are different, (they aren't clones or identical twins, after all) but there's only one singer that comes to mind when i hear TLT, and it isn't TLT.
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I respect the analysis, and agree they are different, (they aren't clones or identical twins, after all) but there's only one singer that comes to mind when i hear TLT, and it isn't TLT.
John Arch? :justjen
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Good song, but I'm a bit less optimistic about this album than the previous two. The 2 songs released so far are good, but not so good if compared the ones that were released in antecipation to S/T and CH, which I thought were really good albums. Anyway, out of curiosity, this song seems to be written by Parker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3dcf1EekiE
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After three listens, I officially love the hell out of this new single. It’s moody and intense but also lots of fun. Hopefully there will be some more keyboard sections on the album.
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I think the new song is ok but neither of the first two releases from this album stand out that much as anything special. It's still light years better than Dedicated to Chaos so you can't complain too much :lol
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I haven't heard the new one, but I'm enjoying Man The Machine more and more each time I hear it. The chorus, the outro harmonies, the vocals, it truly packs a punch and is a lot of fun. I'm surprised by how good it is, honestly.
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2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
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2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
Earlier today I read an old article, claiming the band weren't happy with the initial mix, and wanted it re-mixed.
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2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
Earlier today I read an old article, claiming the band weren't happy with the initial mix, and wanted it re-mixed.
Care to share it? I will modify the blog and the site's chapter on the record to state what the band may have said if you have a link to it.
Also, even if that's what they claim in an article, remember, it was 1984, their first record, and probably told not to rock the boat. What I was told, that they were crushed about it, came from a crew member, who was there with them when they got the news. But honestly, who the hell knows whats actually true at this point? The crew member was dead on about the track list being rearranged, so it stands to reason he was right about the mix too.
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Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class, and I was literally reading the review to Warning when my teacher busted me. :lol
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Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class, and I was literally reading the review to Warning when my teacher busted me. :lol
At your advanced age, I am surprised you remember so clearly, TAC. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
"In addition, depending on the budget and availability of the video masters (the rumor is the master has been lost, unfortunately), Capitol Records could also consider packaging Live in Tokyo show with The Warning, as a bonus DVD. Live in Tokyo was shot at the very beginning of The Warning tour and put out on VHS in 1985."
I'd buy that! If I'm not mistaken, I bought The Warning and then bought Live in Tokyo not long after. (probably followed by the EP, but it's also possible that I got the EP first) I still have and still love that VHS and was thrilled when they re-released the EP with a studio version of "Prophecy." I'm not sure I'd buy a remix of The Warning otherwise unless I became convinced that the remix was a significant improvement on the original.
"The bottom line is, I have to believe, particularly given that so many other bands with a lower profile than Queensryche who do these sorts of things, a venture like this is doable and profitable."
The anniversary editions of Fates Warning's pre-APSOG Alder era albums being Exhibit 1 (although I don't know with any certainty that they were profitable, the fact that they did them for four consecutive albums suggest they were).
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Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class, and I was literally reading the review to Warning when my teacher busted me. :lol
Nice.
I didn't know about Kerrang until probably a year later. If I had, I'm sure I'd have gotten into Marillion earlier than I did.
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2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html (http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html)
Earlier today I read an old article, claiming the band weren't happy with the initial mix, and wanted it re-mixed.
Care to share it? I will modify the blog and the site's chapter on the record to state what the band may have said if you have a link to it.
3rd and 2nd to last paragraph mentions it.
Direct link here: https://facebook.com/rycheitems/photos/a.192348560952847/993400614180967/?type=3&permPage=1 (https://facebook.com/rycheitems/photos/a.192348560952847/993400614180967/?type=3&permPage=1)
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50261743_993400620847633_5404537720003362816_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=3f20d60cc3e7608f415bd2d7d07cfbcc&oe=5CB82164)
There is still the possibility of EMI taking control of the thing, after the band had finished it again.
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Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class, and I was literally reading the review to Warning when my teacher busted me. :lol
At your advanced age, I am surprised you remember so clearly, TAC. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hah!
Yup, so old I remember when Queensryche was good! :lol
I also vividly remember the first time I heard Queen Of The Reich. So amazing!
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2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html (http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html)
Earlier today I read an old article, claiming the band weren't happy with the initial mix, and wanted it re-mixed.
Care to share it? I will modify the blog and the site's chapter on the record to state what the band may have said if you have a link to it.
3rd and 2nd to last paragraph mentions it.
Direct link here: https://facebook.com/rycheitems/photos/a.192348560952847/993400614180967/?type=3&permPage=1 (https://facebook.com/rycheitems/photos/a.192348560952847/993400614180967/?type=3&permPage=1)
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50261743_993400620847633_5404537720003362816_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=3f20d60cc3e7608f415bd2d7d07cfbcc&oe=5CB82164)
There is still the possibility of EMI taking control of the thing, after the band had finished it again.
Setzer, thanks! i'll modify stuff tomorrow. Appreciate it.
Edit - added the following to the blog and the chapter on The Warning on the site (it also links to the article):
Editor's Note: An old article from The Warning time period suggests that it was the band, not the label, who made the decision to have the album remixed before it was released. I find that to be unlikely, despite Tate's commentary acknowledging the matter in the article. Consider that The Warning was the band's first album with EMI, they were over budget on the project, and they worked with a legendary producer in Guthrie. In addition, the article never mentions the revised track order of the album, which was, allegedly, done by the label. So, while the band certainly could have requested the remix themselves, I think its more likely that it was label-driven, and Queensryche were told by EMI not to "rock the boat" in the press if asked about the issue.
I think that's a fair assessment of the issue, and illustrates what I personally think is more likely and why. But who knows what the truth is, all these years later. We all know the revisionist history that spewed forth concerning Mindcrime and how "a sequel was always planned." (Which was debunked to be completely false, and a narrative started to promote Mindcrime II.) I highly doubt we'll ever really know the truth regarding The Warning and its mix.
Thanks again for pointing out the article Setzer. Glad to see something about it out there.
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Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class...
Who was your teacher, John the Baptist?
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LaTorre played drums on the new album: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-confirms-singer-todd-la-torre-played-drums-on-new-album-the-verdict/
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Still not confirmed by the band though. BM is relying on the same information we have had forever.
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Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class, and I was literally reading the review to Warning when my teacher busted me. :lol
At your advanced age, I am surprised you remember so clearly, TAC. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hah!
Yup, so old I remember when Queensryche was good! :lol
I also vividly remember the first time I heard Queen Of The Reich. So amazing!
Seeing them open for Kiss on the Animalize tour sold me on them. I bought The Warning the next day on album and cassette.
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Still not confirmed by the band though. BM is relying on the same information we have had forever.
QR's Facebook page posted the link, so I guess in a way they have confirmed it.
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Be interesting to see where QR goes from here. It is clear that Rockenfield is not with them any longer. But my guess is, either they are in the midst of the legal wranglings to separate them and Scott, OR, they simply don't want to go through that, and are trying to just let it be what it is and avoid any further drama. Besides, they'd have to pay him his ownership share, which, if even if less significant than Tate, is still likely quite a big sum for a band QR's size these days. The band has said (I think La Torre) a few times publicly that it was La Torre on drums, but have not been definitive about Scott's status in the band. I'm not privy to their ownership structure these days, other than that after the split it was Scott-Ed-Whip, but my guess is, they'll just let it be what it is, paying Scott whatever the principals are entitled to after expenses.
Seems to me, with many bands now, BRAND trumps "band" every time, so I see them carrying on as "Queensryche," despite now only sporting two original members (only one of whom was a significant contributor to songwriting over the years). But without Chris, Geoff, and now Scott, its watered down quite a bit. But then again, other bands have done it well, so maybe this version of Queensryche will too.
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LaTorre played drums on the new album: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-confirms-singer-todd-la-torre-played-drums-on-new-album-the-verdict/
Still not confirmed by the band though. BM is relying on the same information we have had forever.
It was confirmed by the band ~2 months ago: https://twitter.com/queensryche/status/1067649883044114432
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Be interesting to see where QR goes from here. It is clear that Rockenfield is not with them any longer. But my guess is, either they are in the midst of the legal wranglings to separate them and Scott, OR, they simply don't want to go through that, and are trying to just let it be what it is and avoid any further drama. Besides, they'd have to pay him his ownership share, which, if even if less significant than Tate, is still likely quite a big sum for a band QR's size these days. The band has said (I think La Torre) a few times publicly that it was La Torre on drums, but have not been definitive about Scott's status in the band. I'm not privy to their ownership structure these days, other than that after the split it was Scott-Ed-Whip, but my guess is, they'll just let it be what it is, paying Scott whatever the principals are entitled to after expenses.
Seems to me, with many bands now, BRAND trumps "band" every time, so I see them carrying on as "Queensryche," despite now only sporting two original members (only one of whom was a significant contributor to songwriting over the years). But without Chris, Geoff, and now Scott, its watered down quite a bit. But then again, other bands have done it well, so maybe this version of Queensryche will too.
You are technically correct about the songwriting core.....but it’s worth mentioning that EJ was the primary writer for one of the best (and most QR sounding) tracks from CH.
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I must say that when I heard QR released a second new song, I struggled with finding enough energy to even sample it.
Well, this morning I finally got around to checking out Dark Reverie, and I must say, I was pleasantly surprised.
The track is quite solid. As is TLT's drumming.
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Despite everything that's going on I'm actually excited and eagerly awaiting the new record. The last two were really good (imo) and if they continue in that vein I'm happy.
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From the QR page in the comments of their repost of the Blabbermouth post (lol this is a mouthful): "We can’t say anything further until Scott gives us a statement, it’s in his court not ours. He's been radio silent and won’t give us a statement, so there is nothing further we can say or tell anyone."
Sorry to resurrect marriage analogies on this forum, but if my boyfriend says he needs a break and then doesn't respond to my messages for two months, I wouldn't say "yeah I'm not sure what's going on with my boyfriend and won't be until he returns my calls", I would say "yeah that bastard dumped me" :lol
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Be interesting to see where QR goes from here. It is clear that Rockenfield is not with them any longer. But my guess is, either they are in the midst of the legal wranglings to separate them and Scott, OR, they simply don't want to go through that, and are trying to just let it be what it is and avoid any further drama. Besides, they'd have to pay him his ownership share, which, if even if less significant than Tate, is still likely quite a big sum for a band QR's size these days. The band has said (I think La Torre) a few times publicly that it was La Torre on drums, but have not been definitive about Scott's status in the band. I'm not privy to their ownership structure these days, other than that after the split it was Scott-Ed-Whip, but my guess is, they'll just let it be what it is, paying Scott whatever the principals are entitled to after expenses.
Seems to me, with many bands now, BRAND trumps "band" every time, so I see them carrying on as "Queensryche," despite now only sporting two original members (only one of whom was a significant contributor to songwriting over the years). But without Chris, Geoff, and now Scott, its watered down quite a bit. But then again, other bands have done it well, so maybe this version of Queensryche will too.
You are technically correct about the songwriting core.....but it’s worth mentioning that EJ was the primary writer for one of the best (and most QR sounding) tracks from CH.
I love Ed, I think pretty highly of his songwriting and his playing. He's also probably the nicest dude in that band. Not probably, he IS. But while I agree with your comment, it really has nothing to do with the comparison I was making. Eddie was never a big part of the songwriting of the original/classic lineup of Queensryche. Those songs came basically from three guys, which established what Queensryche was all about.
From the QR page in the comments of their repost of the Blabbermouth post (lol this is a mouthful): "We can’t say anything further until Scott gives us a statement, it’s in his court not ours. He's been radio silent and won’t give us a statement, so there is nothing further we can say or tell anyone."
Sorry to resurrect marriage analogies on this forum, but if my boyfriend says he needs a break and then doesn't respond to my messages for two months, I wouldn't say "yeah I'm not sure what's going on with my boyfriend and won't be until he returns my calls", I would say "yeah that bastard dumped me" :lol
:rollin
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Yeah, at this point I have pretty much checked out. The two new songs didn't knock my socks off and with scott pretty much gone, I just don't care too much anymore.
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Just read on QR's facebook that "Dark Reverie" was written both musically and lyrically by Parker Lundgren. Regardless of our opinions on the song itself, it's pretty cool that they have continually been giving him more and more opportunity to write. Hopefully he can eventually parlay that into a bigger opportunity with another band down the road when his stint with Queensryche is over, or when the band comes to an end.
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Just read on QR's facebook that "Dark Reverie" was written both musically and lyrically by Parker Lundgren. Regardless of our opinions on the song itself, it's pretty cool that they have continually been giving him more and more opportunity to write. Hopefully he can eventually parlay that into a bigger opportunity with another band down the road when his stint with Queensryche is over, or when the band comes to an end.
What I like about it is just let them become their own band and forge their own identity. Probably too late for that, but at least it's something that I can respect.
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@Samsara
I wasn't trying to counter your point as much as I was trying to offer something hopeful. That there is an original member in QR that still knows how to write something that sounds like QR. (Not even sure Wilton is capable of that anymore. He seems more intent on making QR a straight up power metal band without any of the weirdness and "off kilter" mood that made QR special. Jackson seems to have at least captured that spirit for one song.)
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@Samsara
I wasn't trying to counter your point as much as I was trying to offer something hopeful. That there is an original member in QR that still knows how to write something that sounds like QR. (Not even sure Wilton is capable of that anymore. He seems more intent on making QR a straight up power metal band without any of the weirdness and "off kilter" mood that made QR special. Jackson seems to have at least captured that spirit for one song.)
:tup
You're referring to "Eye9," right? I agree. That song really had a cool vibe to it. The funny thing about Ed is that there were two guys that offered a comment about Ed''s writing to me in the past. Kelly Gray and Jason Slater.
Kelly said a lot of stuff that Ed submitted 20 years ago had more of a "punk" vibe to it and was unused. He was referring to "Monologue," a tune Ed wrote in the Q2k sessions that only exists as a demo and as far as I know, has never leaked. I tended to believe him at the time (this was 2001 when I spoke to Kelly about it), because I sorta got that vibe from "Anytime/Anywhere" on HITNF, which Eddie wrote the music to.
Jason Slater told me in the mid-2000s that a few of Ed's demos all sorta had this "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" vibe to them, and didn't feel very "Queensryche." He let me listen to one of them, and yeah, it totally did. I don't remember the name of the demo, but it was Ed singing (who had a really good singing voice, just some pitch issues once in awhile), and yeah, it totally reminded me of Brett Michaels crooning Every Rose. LOL.
Since then, however, on D2C, and the two TLT-era QR recordings, I think Ed's writing has evolved quite a bit and I enjoy it. Lyrics aside, I really like the music to "Hot Spot Junkie" which I believe is an Ed tune. A little different, but cool. And his stuff of the TLT-era stuff has been great. I believe he wrote Spore, and of course Eye9, and had his hand in a lot of the tunes that I dig from those two records.
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I don't how much of these songs are actually written by Ed, but his name is in the credits as a co-writer and they are all very good IMO: another rainy night (empire), promised land, rythm of hope (tribe), hit the black/anytime_anywhere (hear in the now frontier), spore/in this light (S/T) and arrow of time/bulletproof (condition human).
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I don't how much of these songs are actually written by Ed, but his name is in the credits as a co-writer and they are all very good IMO: another rainy night (empire), promised land, rythm of hope (tribe), hit the black/anytime_anywhere (hear in the now frontier), spore/in this light (S/T) and arrow of time/bulletproof (condition human).
Another Rainy Night was Ed's riff, Chris' arrangement, Tate's lyrics.
Promised Land was a band effort. Not really sure what his contributions to it were.
Rhythm of Hope was mostly Rockenfield, but I am sure Ed probably was involved with an arrangement or added something guitar-wise that helped drive it.
Hit the Black - I forget this one, but I'm thinking it was similar to Another Rainy Night - Ed's main riff, Chris' arrangement.
Anytime/Anywhere - I mentioned above. His song, musically.
As for the La Torre-era stuff, I'm not sure on the COndition Human stuff. But as far as the self-titled, In This Light was Ed's song. Most of that is him, if I remember right. And Spore...I am pretty sure that was mostly an Ed/La Torre thing. I don't remember exactly who else contributed.
I was lucky enough to hear Spore before lyrics/vocals were added in early 2014. It was pretty bad ass, and I remember asking who wrote it, and Todd pointed to Ed. Who did his usual joke and laughed.
Ed's a talented dude. He's also done some writing outside of Queensryche. If you look up his name on bmi (I forget if it is bmi or ascap), he has a host of songs with other artists. He just doesn't promote himself the way a lot of people do.
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Really cool to know all of that, thanks!
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For the record...I was specifically thinking of Eye9. That song in particular impressed me because it was the only song from the TLT era to capture the "feel" of QR and not just the sounds. I could honestly picture the classic lineup doing that song.
I'm really hoping the new album captures more of that feel with the deeper cuts. Because nothing I've heard so far has done it. The songs are good, but nothing has "wowed" me yet.
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Ed's a talented dude. He's also done some writing outside of Queensryche. If you look up his name on bmi (I forget if it is bmi or ascap), he has a host of songs with other artists. He just doesn't promote himself the way a lot of people do.
I did this, and besides all the stuff he's co-written for others, I actually managed to find the credits to all the songs on The Verdict, except for Blood of the Levant and Man the Machine. However, Blood of the Levant is in the ASCAP database, and while Man the Machine couldn't be found in either of them, there's a song titled Broken credited to Jackson, La Torre and Wilton, so I presume that was the working title, given that the word is repeated in the lyrics of that song. Maybe they'd forgotten there already was a Broken on D2C, but I can't blame them :lol
Anyway, assuming Broken is Man the Machine, these are the credits:
Blood of the Levant (Jackson/La Torre/Wilton)
Man the Machine (Jackson/La Torre/Wilton)
Light Years (Jackson)
Inside Out (La Torre/Wilton)
Propaganda Fashion (Jackson)
Dark Reverie (Lundgren)
Bent (Jackson/La Torre/Lundgren)
Inner Unrest (La Torre/Wilton)
Launder the Conscience (La Torre/Lundgren/Wilton)
Portrait (Jackson/La Torre)
In essence, this album seems to be less heavy on Wilton's stuff, while Jackson has stepped up a bit.
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Cool deal, thanks for doing that.
Yup, it looks like generally what I expected. The Wilton credits for the first two songs and Launder the Conscience are likely minor arrangement changes. If memory serves, I remember asking what Michael's input to Open Road and Where Dreams Go to Die was on the self-titled (back when it came out), and was told that Michael made some minor arrangement tweaks, and took a writing credit because of it. I assume that was likely the same for Blood of the Levant and Man the Machine and Launder.
On Open Road, Wilton did something like add a solo section, and take the La Torre solo he wrote and expanded it and put it on the end, or something to that effect. And on Where Dreams Go to Die, it was more of that same kind of cut, paste, expand of a section or two. A bit fuzzy on it, but it was something in that ballpark.
My guess is, based on those credits, Inside Out and Inner Unrest are probably fast songs, like Don't Look Back, The Needle LIes, etc., more up-tempo metal. Just seems to be what Michael does and does well.
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However, Blood of the Levant is in the ASCAP database, and while Man the Machine couldn't be found in either of them, there's a song titled Broken credited to Jackson, La Torre and Wilton, so I presume that was the working title, given that the word is repeated in the lyrics of that song. Maybe they'd forgotten there already was a Broken on D2C, but I can't blame them :lol
If that's the case, it's hilarious :rollin
*guys jam song*
*guys write song*
Lyricist: "Ok guys, here are the lyrics, I'll call the song Broken"
The other ones: "Ok, cool"
(Some time later....)
Someone at the label: "Hey guys, I'm not trying to tell you how to write your albums, but... wasn't there already a song called Broken on Dedicated to Chaos?"
QR, checking it online: "..........oh sssssshit :facepalm: "
:rollin
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I'm not sure why that would be "hilarious." I would imagine that similar things actually happen pretty frequently. And song titles change for LOTS of different reasons throughout the writing process. Remember "The Shaman's Trance" being changed to "Bridges in the Sky" at almost-literally the 11th hour?
But going back to the posts prior to that, that's some really good information and detective work on the writing credits. :tup But as Samsara kind of eluded to, unless you really have in-depth insider knowledge, it's still hard to interpret that and know what "writing" really means for any given song. Was a guy the primary writer who either brought the main riffs and chord progressions to the table, or was the major driving force for arranging the song? Or did he merely rearrange a thing here or there, or come up with a small section? I love those little nitty-gritty details. But for most songs, we just don't know.
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Random thought: What if the current members re-wrote some of the songs on DTC to be actually good? :justjen
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:lmao:
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QR has been under my radar for a very long time now, but I actually like Dark Reverie a lot.
B.Lee
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I haven't checked out the second song released from the new album yet and really, am in no rush to. That's a shame.
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I haven't checked out the second song released from the new album yet and really, am in no rush to. That's a shame.
Kade, this was me.
I must say that when I heard QR released a second new song, I struggled with finding enough energy to even sample it.
Well, this morning I finally got around to checking out Dark Reverie, and I must say, I was pleasantly surprised.
The track is quite solid. As is TLT's drumming.
Go for it.
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Alright, I'll do it.
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Just listened to it, yeah, not bad, probably better than the first song. Nice dark tones to it, didn't blow me away however.
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:tup
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https://www.rockpages.gr/en/interviews/item/9747-geoff-tate?fbclid=IwAR1QxMLa2rJ6q78BLM_Wk0DuXM-r39IrSCG-419MuRkulFHHrpGaWHyYGFA
New interview with Geoff Tate. One comment of note - he alludes to legal problems between Scott Rockenfeld and the band. We all know that Scott didn't play on the album, but so far, this is the first and only public comment from anyone remotely associated with Queensryche that mentions legal problems.
Rockpages.gr: Do you follow Queensr˙che now?
Geoff Tate: No, I haven’t followed them since I left the band really. I know Scott Rockenfield is no longer playing with them and there is some sort of legal problem with him now. But, that’s pretty much all I know.
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My guess is...his prolonged absence from the band is far from "parental" or "personal" leave. He's gone. And because he's gone, and he was/is a member of Queensryche's ownership (Ed, Mike, Scott), there are a lot of legal entanglements to get through. Obviously, the band doesn't want press about another founding member of the band leaving, as it continues to rip away at their "brand." In addition, if Scott leaves, and wants to cash out, then they need to pay him what he's owed as a principal to make that happen. My guess is, they can't afford to do that, and also finish up paying Tate. Thus, "legal problem."
Further speculation - Wouldn't it be interesting if Scott didn't give up his legal standing with the band? I mean, with Tate saying in that interview that he's touring on Empire for 2020 and all. I imagine if Geoff got Scott to play with him in 2020 on a tour supporting Empire, and the guarantee numbers from promoters for "Queensryche" with Geoff Tate as singer doing that tour are significantly higher than either "Geoff Tate," "Operation: Mindcrime," or current "Queensryche," doing it, that if Scott convinced Ed to do the tour too (which means then you have two-thirds of the majority of the current Queensryche ownership), they could they then play that tour as QUEENSRYCHE, with Geoff as the singer, Scott the drummer, Eddie the bassist, and two guitar players (whoever that may be). They could do that, although if Wilton sat out, he likely would still get a share of the profits due to his standing as an owner. The losers in that scenario would unfortunately be Parker and Todd, who wouldn't get a thing most likely.
Tate has already confirmed he's going out doing Empire in 2020. What remains to be seen is, how many, if any, current or former members of Queensryche will he have in tow, and of those, can he get two principals from the existing Queensryche to do it with him, and call it a reunited (without Chris, obviously) Queensryche, and bring in a high enough guarantee from promoters to make it doable and practical for all involved.
As others here have said in the past, not sure the increase from promoters in that scenario would be worth the marketplace confusion again. But other bands have successfully gone out with an older lineup and then returned to the current lineup to support big records (Fates Warning has done it a couple times). So I wouldn't discount the possibility of that happening if the money is right.
On a better and more positive note - I saw Tate confirm EMI is doing the box set for Empire. That's good. They'll do a good job. if its up to the level of the Sign of the Times deluxe edition with all that great artwork and other stuff, it'll be worth it.
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Further speculation - Wouldn't it be interesting if Scott didn't give up his legal standing with the band? I mean, with Tate saying in that interview that he's touring on Empire for 2020 and all. I imagine if Geoff got Scott to play with him in 2020 on a tour supporting Empire, and the guarantee numbers from promoters for "Queensryche" with Geoff Tate as singer doing that tour are significantly higher than either "Geoff Tate," "Operation: Mindcrime," or current "Queensryche," doing it, that if Scott convinced Ed to do the tour too (which means then you have two-thirds of the majority of the current Queensryche ownership), they could they then play that tour as QUEENSRYCHE, with Geoff as the singer, Scott the drummer, Eddie the bassist, and two guitar players (whoever that may be). They could do that, although if Wilton sat out, he likely would still get a share of the profits due to his standing as an owner. The losers in that scenario would unfortunately be Parker and Todd, who wouldn't get a thing most likely.
Boy, you never quit, do you? :lol
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It would be nice if Scott could actually give a statement of some kind about the band situation. I would imagine he isn’t because of whatever legal situation is going on but I’d like to hear his side.
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It would be nice if Scott could actually give a statement of some kind about the band situation. I would imagine he isn’t because of whatever legal situation is going on but I’d like to hear his side.
He's too busy at this point breast feeding and being on parental leave :corn :justjen
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Further speculation - Wouldn't it be interesting if Scott didn't give up his legal standing with the band? I mean, with Tate saying in that interview that he's touring on Empire for 2020 and all. I imagine if Geoff got Scott to play with him in 2020 on a tour supporting Empire, and the guarantee numbers from promoters for "Queensryche" with Geoff Tate as singer doing that tour are significantly higher than either "Geoff Tate," "Operation: Mindcrime," or current "Queensryche," doing it, that if Scott convinced Ed to do the tour too (which means then you have two-thirds of the majority of the current Queensryche ownership), they could they then play that tour as QUEENSRYCHE, with Geoff as the singer, Scott the drummer, Eddie the bassist, and two guitar players (whoever that may be). They could do that, although if Wilton sat out, he likely would still get a share of the profits due to his standing as an owner. The losers in that scenario would unfortunately be Parker and Todd, who wouldn't get a thing most likely.
Boy, you never quit, do you? :lol
Hahahahaha. Just watching the train wreck, taking odds on the possibilities. :lol
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Could it also be that their record deal with Century Media includes some kind of clause regarding the scenario where one founding member leaves and how it affects their advances etc, or that their deal is now completed after 3 albums and losing Scott would weaken their position in the negotiations for a new one (either with CM or some other label)? I know Pink Floyd kept their split with Richard Wright in the 80s under the wraps for the latter reason.
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If Scott is out there's probably a shitload of legal things to discuss, not least of all who is allowed to call his band Queensryche in the future.
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If Scott is out there's probably a shitload of legal things to discuss, not least of all who is allowed to call his band Queensryche in the future.
Geoff sold that right, and the band won/bought it. I don't see how Scott leaving would change that.
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Did Geoff sell it, or has the judge decided that the name belongs to Wilton, Jackson, Rockenfield? I don't recall the details.
If Rockenfield has a share in the QR business operation, he has a share in the band name. And if he leaves and decides to join Geoff (speculating here) then there are two parties with two members each who would like to call themselves Queensryche. I'm pretty sure that Tood and Parker are more like (long term) hired guns, with no legal claims.
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Geoff does not have the legal rights to the Queensryche name. He did not "sell" it, however. Simply put, the settlement required the band to pay Geoff an agreed upon amount that represented his ownership stake in the band, based on the valuation of the name (however they did that) at the point of the split. That sum is undisclosed, but I heard it was something in the range of $670,000-$750,000. As of early last year, the band (again, from what I heard) had still not fully paid Geoff what he was owed. They are, essentially, making payments (as of early 2018).
Once Geoff was gone, the band re-did their band agreement, with three principals - Wilton, Jackson, Rockenfield. (La Torre and Lundgren would then be considered "employees.") I don't know the details of that agreement. However, I would assume that if one of those principal members leave, a similar scenario would unfold, where the remaining two would have to give the departing principal a sum based on the value of the band/brand at that point in time (or, it could be a stipulated amount in the band agreement - again, it all depends on what is in that agreement). I don't have those details, so I have no concrete way of explaining it.
However, for purely speculation purposes, as I explained earlier, if Scott is gone, but hasn't yet been taken off the band agreement (or the issue of his ownership stake is in legal question), if he joined Geoff, no, they couldn't technically call it Queensryche. HOWEVER, if the same facts are true, and Scott is still technically a legal principal of Queensryche (which I assume he still is, given the "legal issue" Tate referenced), if Scott connected with Geoff, and then convinced Michael OR Eddie to join them, then they have two out of three principals of Queensryche, and COULD POSSIBLY (again, I don't know the details of the band agreement and what it allows/doesn't allow) tour as "Queensryche." TOTALLY speculation. At the end of the day, the band agreement that they drew up once the split was finalized would dictate what the could and couldn't do.
It's probably more complicated than that though. But when it gets complicated, just follow the money. Who has control of Queensryche's accounts? Who stands to make more/lose more in all the possible scenarios? Answer those, you know what goes on with Queensryche post-1997.
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However, for purely speculation purposes, as I explained earlier, if Scott is gone, but hasn't yet been taken off the band agreement (or the issue of his ownership stake is in legal question), if he joined Geoff, no, they couldn't technically call it Queensryche. HOWEVER, if the same facts are true, and Scott is still technically a legal principal of Queensryche (which I assume he still is, given the "legal issue" Tate referenced), if Scott connected with Geoff, and then convinced Michael OR Eddie to join them, then they have two out of three principals of Queensryche, and COULD POSSIBLY (again, I don't know the details of the band agreement and what it allows/doesn't allow) tour as "Queensryche."
You're doing it again! :lol
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However, for purely speculation purposes, as I explained earlier, if Scott is gone, but hasn't yet been taken off the band agreement (or the issue of his ownership stake is in legal question), if he joined Geoff, no, they couldn't technically call it Queensryche. HOWEVER, if the same facts are true, and Scott is still technically a legal principal of Queensryche (which I assume he still is, given the "legal issue" Tate referenced), if Scott connected with Geoff, and then convinced Michael OR Eddie to join them, then they have two out of three principals of Queensryche, and COULD POSSIBLY (again, I don't know the details of the band agreement and what it allows/doesn't allow) tour as "Queensryche."
You're doing it again! :lol
That one was for you!
bosk, we need a "beating a dead horse" emoticon. Get on that man. :lol :lol
On the flip side though, if things stay status quo, and QR remains as is, and Tate does the Empire 30th tour he's talking about (hopefully with Scott in tow), that might work out pretty well for anyone who is still a fan.
See, there you go, TAC. Some positivity. :yarr
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(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi375.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo194%2FTheCuteWoofer%2FSmilies%2FWeird%2Fbeatdeadhorse.gif&hash=36bb07426a4580a1171739fe3219d691)
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So, Michael is now saying that Todd has been writing most of the drum parts all along and Scott has just been laying them down.
http://bravewords.com/news/queensryche-guitarist-michael-wilton-todd-la-torre-wrote-most-of-the-drum-parts-for-the-last-two-albums
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http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-i-havent-talked-to-scott-rockenfield-in-over-a-year-and-a-half/
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Well, at least you can say that this is all on Scott. Wanting paternity leave is totally cool, but then just "ghosting" the band? Very NOT cool.
What a train wreck this is.
Based on the strength of Condition Human, I'm willing to at least give it a try, though.
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As weird and wacky as it is.... I believe Todd. So he was really on paternity leave, and then for just whatever reason he enjoyed continuing to stay away from the band and.... that was basically it.
It's like if you have the luxury to take a sabbatical from work, you plan to stay away for six months and then you just don't return without giving an explanation. D'uh.
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Work cancelled today because of snow. So I'm spending the time in my ongoing project of ripping my vast CD library to my computer.
I decided to use my new library program to rearrange the tracks from The Warning into their originally intended order. This is the first time I can remember hearing it this way, and I like it quite a bit better. It's obvious that the song flow was intended for this order.
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http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-i-havent-talked-to-scott-rockenfield-in-over-a-year-and-a-half/
If you haven't even talked to your coworker for 1.5 years, is he still part of the company?
It's weird. Either he's not allowed to talk to them by some legal factor or they aren't allowed to say they are in communication with him, also by some legal factor. Because not talking to your band member but still considering them a part of the band is whack.
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Right. They communicate through the manager? I mean, they're in a band together. They can't even text?
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http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-i-havent-talked-to-scott-rockenfield-in-over-a-year-and-a-half/
If you haven't even talked to your coworker for 1.5 years, is he still part of the company?
Well, sort of. But the "coworker" thing is a much different dynamic where you are talking about owners of a small company. If you haven't talked to your co-owner for 1.5 years, is he still a co-owner of the company? Yes. Absolutely. BUT the other owners and probably grumbling about it A LOT and thinking up ways to force him to either get more hands-on or get out.
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Work cancelled today because of snow. So I'm spending the time in my ongoing project of ripping my vast CD library to my computer.
I decided to use my new library program to rearrange the tracks from The Warning into their originally intended order. This is the first time I can remember hearing it this way, and I like it quite a bit better. It's obvious that the song flow was intended for this order.
You guys are getting a ton of it up there. Been getting a ton of pics from family and friends.
Yeah, The Warning in that originally intended order is the way to go. I got into QR at the end of the Rage cycle (1987), and so my first experience was listening to Rage, and then Mindcrime. After that, I got Live in Tokyo, and it wasn't until 1990 that I went back and got the Warning. And it never really clicked for me. I mean, I liked my favorites well enough (NM 156, Roads to Madness, Take Hold), but it wasn't until I learned of the real track order that I fell in love with the ALBUM. They really put a good amount of thought into that running order, and it is a shame the label changed it to lead with the title track because it was the first single.
re: Rockenfield - remember, there are three sides to every story. Scott is staying silent, which is smart, because he knows he won't win a public war of words with the band. I don't think I know the ENTIRE story, but the details that I know that ARE NOT public have me (even though I am not really a fan of the current band) on the band's side. But again, as with every case, there are legalities involved. They have a band agreement where Wilton-Jackson-Rockenfield own the corporation. What's in that agreement is what rules the day, GENERALLY.
But as with everything, each situation is unique. I will say this. My gut feeling is that this is ALL about money, even if everyone flatly denies it. It always is. For example, lets say Scott went on parental leave, notified the band. They agree, and Casey comes on to do a few months worth of dates. Well, as a majority shareholder, Rockenfield is still entitled (again, depending on what the band agreement says, which I have not seen) to his share of the band's profits, after expenses, even if he isn't playing. He's an owner. Say the band didn't pay him (again, this is ALL hypothetical), because they paid Casey, and didn't think it was right that Scott sat out and wanted his cut, so they didn't give him the right amount of money. If you were Scott, wouldn't you be pissed?
If that was you, what would you do? I don't know what Scott did or didn't do, but as an owner, and with power to make fiscal decisions for the band, you have to wonder if all this is about a monetary disagreement or acts associated with that (payment or non-payment). In my experience, shit like this ALWAYS comes down to money. And as Queensryche has success in the public war of words with Tate, they are now getting out in front of this publicly again, with Scott staying silent.
No one knows exactly what went on, but if you believe it ISN'T about cash, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you...
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First review of the new album:
https://www.therockpit.net/2019/album-review-queensryche-the-verdict/
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First review of the new album:
https://www.therockpit.net/2019/album-review-queensryche-the-verdict/
Cool. Reviewer really doesn't do much except quote band members and give a tiny description of a handful of songs (which could be derived from 30 second samples if those are up somewhere). Hopefully future "reviews" give more a more in-depth description of the actual songs.
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http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-i-havent-talked-to-scott-rockenfield-in-over-a-year-and-a-half/
If you haven't even talked to your coworker for 1.5 years, is he still part of the company?
Scott's still a major shareholder in the company but he's on gardening leave and presumably refusing to quit because he likes getting that yearly profit dividend whilst sitting on his arse doing nothing...
...once bands hit a certain level of success they tend to get turned into a corporation where the members of the band become equal shareholders in that corporation. Going by UK tax laws (iirc, it's been a while since I had to worry about it myself), share dividends come under capital gains and get taxed much less than if that money had been rolled into a monthly income. If you're paying yourself Ł100k a year to cover bills and getting a yearly dividend windfall of Ł500k it can be a substantial difference in tax than just paying yourself Ł600k year.
This is all lovely whilst that band is making hay and the lineup is stable. It tends to cause problems when the band's popularity dives, people leave/get booted out and their shares distributed among the remaining shareholders whilst new members only get paid a salary, and if someone declines to contribute but still keeps drawing down their yearly dividend... it could get ugly.
I would bet on QR's management somewhat cooking the books so Rockenfield ended up receiving less than he perhaps feels entitled to... e.g. because they had to pay Casey to tour the profits are inevitably reduced, but with Scott not contributing perhaps they decided to pay touring members a higher salary than usual, further cutting into the corporation's profits and impacting Scott's yearly dividend.
Obviously I'm massively speculating. I haven't a clue what's going on ;D
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On a more positive note, I've noticed an upward trend on current Queensryche's ticket sales, at least in my city.
The last time they played here, the show was far from sold out (this was the tour with Armored Saint and Midnight Eternal). It was packed, but nowhere near sold out. While in line to get in, almost EVERYONE (except me, since I bought a ticket early) had bought tickets on that 2 for 1 deal on Groupon. I was astounded. I mean, Queensryche was trending downward, but going full-on Groupon?! I didn't stay for Queensryche, I left after Midnight Eternal and Armored Saint, the latter of which is why I went in the first place.
Fast-forward three years later, and Queensryche now has Fates Warning in tow. I get a notification this morning (I had bought a ticket, and I'm going to see Fates Warning) that there are "less than 50 tickets" left for the show (which is in late March). Now, Fates Warning hasn't played this city since 2003, so a 16-year gap, and the fact they are in the same basic genre as Queensryche could have something to do with it. The pairing is obviously a lot more popular. So, whoever put the tour package together did a smart thing, at least in this region.
I'd imagine the pairing of Queensryche and Firewind (for Europe, although I'd love to see Firewind here again) will do much the same in Europe. So from a touring perspective, at least in one market (admittedly, a small sample size), the upcoming tour is performing much better than 2016.
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Did they announce the European dates? The combo with Fates Warning would be pretty cool for Europe as well. :tup
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Did they announce the European dates? The combo with Fates Warning would be pretty cool for Europe as well. :tup
Yep, they are doing a round with Firewind as lead support.
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-announces-summer-2019-european-tour/
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Whoa, I didn't catch that! The Fezen festival in Hungary seems like a tremendous opportunity for progressive metal fans, given that Dream Theater is performing only two days before Queensryche.
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Anyone that used Pledgemusic for ordering the album just got screwed. I ordered a signed copy. Message from QR through PledgeMusic
Dear Pledgers,
It is with collective heavy hearts that we are writing to inform you
that we have all been bamboozled by the people at Pledge Music. The
platform informed some people that they were having money troubles but
we have now also been informed that they do NOT have the monies that
were pledged to Queensryche. This means that manufacturing nor shipments can be fulfilled.
We have been lied to for months and months by
various people at Pledge and have now turned this entire mess over to
our attorneys. As a pledger, please get to your credit card company NOW
and DEMAND a refund.
We are not alone in this matter, as it has been publicly made aware that many other artists have been affected as well.
We are truly sorry for this and any inconvenience this causes but please do
understand this is all out of our control and as we said before, the
Pledge folks lied and lied while they mismanaged the monies of the
company.
Forever Screaming in Digital,
Queensryche
PS, if you pledged for liner notes, your name is included.
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"Forever Screaming in Digital?"
"Collective heavy hearts"
"we have all been bamboozled?"
:rollin
Who writes this shit, a third grader?
Seriously though, sucks for all you who pledged. That whole situation is terrible.
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What pisses me off is that it took them close to a month to issue an update on this. The PledgeMusic fiasco has been in the news for quite a bit.
Some of the artists affected are footing the bill, but Queensryche is not.
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IIRC, they told people initially that they were fine and it wasn't going to be an issue. I could be wrong, but that's what I remember.
Sorry if you (and others) lost money. Such a shame. QR should absolutely be honoring things. If that's what other bands are doing, they need to take the hit as well, and just fulfill what they promised. It may put them in a bit of a financial hole, but that's the right thing to do.
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Had no idea Pledge Music was having trouble. I love the platform and have supported and gotten many albums from it. I just got Paul Gilbert's latest album through them not that long ago.
The guys in QR really can't catch a break it seems.
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Another QR update:
There seems to be some confusion about our post this morning regarding Pledge Music. Nothing that was ordered will be fulfilled. Pledge does not have the money that was pledged to them, thus there is no money for manufacturing costs and we are out $70,000.00. Pledge is no longer taking any campaign pledges for any band whatsoever and they are not responding to us. Apparently they have money problems. PLEASE REQUEST A REFUND FROM YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY. If you are having problems with your credit card company you can contact Pledge Music lawyer Bob Lapowsky at Stevens & Lee. His email is rl@steveslee.com and his phone is 215-751-2866.
*PLEASE NOTE* THE VERDICT WILL STILL BE RELEASED ON MARCH 1ST VIA ALL OTHER OUTLETS, INCLUDING OUR LABEL CENTURY MEDIA, AMAZON, FYE, ITUNES, YOUR LOCAL RECORD SHOPS, ETC. ONLY PRE-ORDERS THROUGH PLEDGE WILL BE AFFECTED!
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If the band can't reimburse everyone that got screwed, they should at least try and make it up to these people somehow. They should be sending out something that's exclusive to the pledgers. Unfortunate for the band too.
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Dang I had no idea there was so much drama going on still with Queensryche post Geoff Tate. I remember listening to the first Todd La Torre QR album but didn't dwell on it much, didn't get to hear Condition Human.
And now a new album is about to drop, with more drama associated with it. These guys cant catch a break.
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One more new song, Blood of the Levant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKqakLXgIKI
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Strangely, I've received an e-mail from Pledgemusic to download this song. I thought everything was shut down by now.
Listening to this song now... very good first impression!
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bosk, we need a "beating a dead horse" emoticon. Get on that man. :lol :lol
You mean this one?
:deadhorse:
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they should at the very least send out FLAC copies to all pledgers. that does not cost them anything extra
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Rant time.
Here's the thing. Ok, so Queensryche is out a lot of money. That sucks. It honestly does. But why tell fans that. The FANS are out a lot of money as well. What about the fan who spent a couple hundred bucks, and thats all their entertainment money for a couple of months, and now its gone? Because those fans are out there, and they are left with nothing.
And instead of trying to do something to make up for it, Queensryche just punts and says "go call your credit card company." Well, ok, duh. That's pretty much a no-brainer. But that'll be met with mixed results based on that CC company.
In addition to that, why hasn't Queensryche done SOMETHING to make it up to fans. How about things like "hey, I know this doesn't fully make up for it, but all of you pledgers, provide us with a copy of your receipt, and email this person, and we're going to set up a 10-minute phone call with all of us on a conference call and you can ask us anything you'd like. In addition, we're going to comp each pledger a free VIP meet and greet, so you can come hang with us and get the royal treatment as a courtesy for supporting us, and getting screwed over by Pledge."
What about doing something like that?
Queensryche dropping the ball since 1998...
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The band mentioned the financial loss so fans wouldn't feel bad about losing their $40 pledge. One fan in a FB group actually said that - "well my $40 is nothing compared to what the band lost." But there are others that pledged hundreds and even thousands of dollars (a known QR collector).
To think that the band has basically said "sucks to be you guys, but look at how much we lost" is so backwards.
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So we're upset at QR because Pledge failed? (Legit question, not sarcastic)
What is the "intended" order of The Warning?
Finally, it might be helpful in terms of the "speculation" to remember that "Scott the owner" (likewise "Geoff the owner") is not the same thing as "Scott the player" (or "Geoff the player"). Brad Carlson ("Bun E. Carlos") is still a one-fourth owner of "Cheap Trick Enterprises" (I think that's what it's called) even though he does not regularly perform with the band either on tour or in the studio, and doesn't, by all accounts, talk to anyone in the band (least not Robin, who he most often refers to as "the singer"). Some operating agreements (a generic name for the agreement that controls the organization) call for automatic (in terms of process) removal if there is a removal from the band, but that's not necessarily a requirement.
I'm not sure why it's surprising to some that the business side is so complicated; Jon Bon Jovi regularly refers to his band as a "company" and himself as "CEO", and as distasteful as that is to some, it's absolutely, 100% accurate.
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So we're upset at QR because Pledge failed? (Legit question, not sarcastic)
What is the "intended" order of The Warning?
1. NM 156
2. En Force
3. No Sanctuary
4. Deliverance
5. Take Hold of the Flame
6. Before the Storm
7. Child of Fire
8. Warning
9. Roads to Madness
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Stads,
What JD said. Also, read this: http://anybodylistening.net/thewarning.html
Skip down to "Notes" and see the image of the net final mix of The Warning (one of the cassettes that had it).
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So, this morning I went through the TLT catalog, including the three new songs from The Verdict. It is an interesting trip. I haven't listened to the self-titled or Condition Human in years.
The evolution of the "new" Queensryche after Tate and DeGarmo (and now Rockenfield) clearly has positioned them as a band of their own, as opposed to an extension of the original lineup. That's only natural, considering that aside from Wilton, all the songwriters of this band now are new, and not connected to the classic era in the band much (Jackson and Rockenfield did not write much at all from the EP through Empire, and only slighly increased on PL and HITNF).
On the self-titled, I think it is pretty obvious the band reset the template, using Mindcrime/Empire as a launching point for their sonic direction. As a result, a lot of the elements are familiar as "Queensryche," and La Torre does his best to stay within that Tate mold, albeit with a little more layering to his voice (his voice is thinner than Tates, so it needed a bit more in terms of layering, which is only natural.
To be really honest, I think this record, as short as it is, is really the most memorable. I think the choruses are more melodic and memorable, and while the mastering is terrible, the mix is good. It's hard to listen to because of the mastering, but I love the balance of everything in the mix.
My favorite songs haven't changed much. Fallout, Don't Look Back, and Open Road. Fallout is sorta how I envisioned a modern Queensryche to sound (although it could have used a bridge), Don't Look Back harkened back to The Needle Lies/Speak/Resistance, and is a classic Wilton track, with some great high vocals. Open Road (although too short), has that mood good Queensryche closers have, and I dig it more than A World Without. It just sounds more believable.
Solid overall record. A bunch of warts, probably due to being rushed, but given the circumstances, I really think its a solid album.
Condition Human, to me, is the "real" debut of this version of Queensryche. It gave TLT the opportunity to be more like himself, and I think the band felt free to just "play." Its darker, a little more modern in spurts, and more technical. It takes on what I call a more "No Exit" Fates Warning era approach, and sorta sparks me thinking this is what QUeensryche may have sounded like if they decided after Mindcrime to not embrace a warmer, more hard rock sound, and just went on an extension of metal.
Todd sounds more like that era's Ray Alder to me in spurts, and the music is a little less melodic on some tracks. Unlike many, I'm not really fan of the ballads. They seem like 80s hair stuff. Bulletproof and Just Us could have been released in 1989. They aren't bad songs, just not really what I was looking for.
I do, however, really dig Eye9. That song is more where I expect QR to be in terms of "ballads." Its just more moody and a better representation of what I like personally.
But the less emphasis on good melodies, and frankly, good hooks (having a hard time hearing them in this record) really drags it down for me.
To put it frankly, Condition Human (the record) sounds less like classic Queensryche than Queensryche (2013), and more like a band that is finding its legs. And that's not a bad thing. There are some definite high points. Eye9 is fantastic (love the groove), and while I'm no fan of the lyrics in Guardian, I love the song musically. Hellfire is great too.
Condition Human (the song) is a bit of a retread of other long QR songs. I think, honestly, they should have left that song off. Or didn't work so hard to make it long. The whole bridge part sounds like they are doing Suite Sister Mary again. Its sorta ridiculous. Had they cut the bridge, and just gone into a solo and then the outro, I think it would have been more unique. But the bridge really makes it sound like a retread.
Listening to the three tracks released so far from The Verdict, I hear more progression into becoming their own band, as opposed to following in "Queensryche's" footsteps. I don't hear a lot of the classic QR melody in these. And I guess that's smart, because those melodies were DeGarmo and Tate, and this isn't their band any longer.
But I'm also not hearing the hooks and at least to my ear, while I absolutely can see why people will enjoy these songs, they don't necessarily have what I personally have enjoyed from QR over the years. And again, that's totally fine, and completely natural, because it IS a different band. And based on these three songs, I am going to guess that this will be the epitome of this era of Queensryche. You'll hear a band fully in the hands, creatively, of La Torre-Jackson-Wilton as the primary writers and arrangers. With Lundgren stepping up even more too, from what I can tell from the credits.
Queensryche in name, but at least to my ears, a very different sounding era, leaving a lot of the classic QR elements behind and venturing forward. Probably what they should do. But will probably leave a lot of folks behind as well that had been holding on.
Will be cool to hear the entirety of The Verdict and see if the sonic evolutionary thread from Condition Human is indeed progressing. So far, it sounds like it is. Not necessarily for me, because I'm not really enjoying it. But for the band, its probably exactly what they need and following their muse without the spectre of Tate/DeGarmo over them.
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I generally agree with all of that, except that I consider Condition Human to be the best so far.
The S/T was great. As you said, it is obvious that they wanted to stay within a certain classic Queensryche mold. Or, maybe more accurately, at least use that mold as their basic template. It sounds modern. But it sounds like what a band intent on celebrating the HISTORY of what made QR great would be expected to sound like. The one shortcoming is that this version of the band had not yet gelled as a songwriting team, and the remaining original members were being tasked for perhaps the first time with REALLY stepping up and stretching as lead songwriters for an entire album. So the songs felt a bit unfinished or underdeveloped in places, at least to me.
Condition Human remedied the above, in my opinion. There are truly some terrific songs on that album. The one exception is, as you mentioned, the title track, which does nothing for me. All There Was is a weaker track as well. So combined with the closer and the fact that The Aftermath is basically an interlude, the album really ends on a whimper for me. As a result, I tend to tune out and sometimes even just shut it off after Hourglass or Just Us. But the first 8 tracks more than make up for it. I was honestly VERY happy with that album. (lyrical issues and behind-the-scenes stuff aside)
This new one...maybe I just need to pay closer attention, but the songs have made me feel exactly nothing. I'm not sure if that is a commentary on the songs themselves or if I'm just tired of everything about the way this band have handled themselves for too many years now, to the point where it has soured me on the new stuff. I'll probably buy the album anyway. And if I like it, great. Maybe I just need to hear these songs at proper volume on a decent system and take my time to hear the whole album. Or maybe I'm just done with this band. That would be sad if the latter is the case. But we'll see.
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I kinda like "Dark Reverie", the others...not so much. Seems all La Torre wants to do is wail, scream and growl, he has zero nuance to his singing.
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New review
https://metalwani.com/2019/02/review-queensryche-the-verdict.html
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Just heard the new (third) song. I like it.
I'm getting this album.
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Just heard the new (third) song. I like it.
I'm getting this album.
I'm seeing them in March.
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A Sunday night in Worcester ain't going to work.
My wife is worked up enough that I bought DT tix on a school/work night!
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New review
https://metalwani.com/2019/02/review-queensryche-the-verdict.html
From that review, sounds like the majority of the record is pretty ballad and ballad-ish.
A few of the lines in the review summed up my thoughts on the first three songs we've heard (although these lines from the reviewer are for different songs):
"It doesn’t feature any sort of climax or catchy passages."
"Starts strong but loses steam in the bridge and chorus."
"The overall package is just not strong enough here."
>>>>That sums it up for me, at least in regard to Man the Machine, Blood of the Levant and Dark Reverie. And interestingly, the reviewer wasn't talking about THOSE songs when he said those lines. He was talking about three OTHER tunes on the album. So that is a bit eye-opening and leads into my thinking about the record as a whole:
For me personally, they've moved a direction that just doesn't do it for me. It's not as memorable, less hooky, and just not as GOOD as classic QR. It seems like every reviewer, for every album post-Promised Land, has said "this is the best album since Promised Land." :lol
So basically, what we have is a band that has never been able to get near its output from a quarter-century ago.
I really think Queensryche should be divided into a four separate eras:
Mark I - EP-HITNF + Tribe (even though only half the record is the original lineup)
Mark II - Q2k/Live Evolution
Mark III - Mindcrime II - D2C (Tateryche)
Mark IV - QR 2013-The Verdict
I know it won't happen, as no one cares about QR enough to really push for that kind of Deep Purple-like separation. But in all honesty, it would be a LOT more fair to the current (Mark IV above) era of the band to just compare it to itself, as opposed to comparing it to other eras of the band (namely the original lineup).
This LaTorre-fronted era is really its own beast, making its own music. And other than some Wilton riffs and solos, it sounds nothing like the original band. It just has that whiff of it because of Wilton's style. I really think the LaTorre era of the band needs to be judged based against its own output, instead of against the original lineup. That's too high a watermark, and the band has completely different writers and a significantly changed artistic vibe now to compare it.
Just let the current era BE the current era, and judge it against itself.
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A Sunday night in Worcester ain't going to work.
My wife is worked up enough that I bought DT tix on a school/work night!
Yeah, I'm taking the next day off.
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I just did an album ranking thing in the DoT thread for Dream Theater. It occurred to me that I haven't done that for QR in probably a decade. So I figured I'd share it here if anyone wants to play along:
EP - 8
The Warning - 9
RFO - 9
OPM - 10
Empire - 9
Promised Land - 9
HITNF - 7.75 (just way too much filler).
Q2k - 7.5
Tribe - 7.75 (really hard to grade this, since it is like two separate EPs -- full original band (those songs I'd give an 8 to), and then non-DeGarmo (those songs I'd give a 7.5 to))
OPM2 - 7.5
American Soldier - 7.75
D2C - 5 (a couple bright spots, the rest is just not good).
QR 2013 - 8
Condition Human - 8
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I just did an album ranking thing in the DoT thread for Dream Theater. It occurred to me that I haven't done that for QR in probably a decade. So I figured I'd share it here if anyone wants to play along:
EP - 8
The Warning - 9
RFO - 9
OPM - 10
Empire - 9
Promised Land - 9
HITNF - 7.75 (just way too much filler).
Q2k - 7.5
Tribe - 7.75 (really hard to grade this, since it is like two separate EPs -- full original band (those songs I'd give an 8 to), and then non-DeGarmo (those songs I'd give a 7.5 to))
OPM2 - 7.5
American Soldier - 7.75
D2C - 5 (a couple bright spots, the rest is just not good).
QR 2013 - 8
Condition Human - 8
Your numbers are more generous than mine, and more so than I thought they'd be in general.
EP - 8
Warning - 10
RF - 9 (The only thing that drags it down is that horrendous cover song)
OM- 9
Empire - 8 (A couple of the songs on "side 2" just aren't up to par with the rest of the album)
PL - 8
Hear - 6 (There's some really good songs, and some crap)
Q2K - 3 (And that 3 is being incredibly generous on my behalf. In fact, I'd say that this album is one of the biggest disappointments for me as a fan)
Tribe - 7
OM2 - 4 (There's a few good moments early on in the album, then it takes a hard nose-dive)
AS - 4 (I appreciate what GT was trying to do with the theme of the album, but the musical delivery is poor at best)
D2C - I can't really grade this album, because I've literally never heard a single second of it. The reviews in this forum scared me away from it.
QR 2013 - 6 (If the production and the rushed quality of everything weren't present then it might have ranked higher for me.)
CH - 5 (I find it very boring, and difficult to listen to.)
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I tried to be fairly positive overall. I mean, a 5 is pretty much "this is absolute dog shit." And a 7.5 is basically a "C."
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EP- 7
The Warning- 8
Rage for Order- 9.5
Operation: Mindcrime- 10
Empire- 10
Promised Land- 10
Hear in the Now Frontier- 8
Q2K- 7
Tribe- 5
American Soldier- 6
Operation: Mindcrime II- 7.5
Dedicated to Chaos- 4.5
QR 2013- 7
Condition Human- 7.5
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Just heard the new (third) song. I like it.
I'm getting this album.
I'm seeing them in March.
Enjoy your dinner in front of them. :P
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:lol
No dinner there. I'm more worried about lead poisoning from the walls there.
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Yeah, there's NO food there.
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Got my first listen in tonight, and frankly my ears are much more open going forward. The band has a lot of strikes against them right now, but that said there was definite improvement from the ST to CH, and looks like there could be again here. I'm actually truly excited to listen more, which is more than I expected.
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That's great to know Nick!!
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Just preordered the CD on Amazon.
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EP- 8
The Warning- 7
(Slight backward step from the EP in subtle ways as Tate's theatricality started to exert itself in the vocals when the band hadn't yet adjusted their writing to suit).
Rage for Order- 9
Operation: Mindcrime - 10
Empire - 10
(All three of these are just ace. R4O is just a tiny notch down in quality from the other two but very, very close)
Promised Land - 7
Hear In The Now Frontier - 7
Tribe - 7
(All three of these are solid QR records but all missing the songwriting balance of Wilton's third leg... I know he contributed to several songs on Tribe but in a lobotomised way).
Q2k - 3.
(At least has two songs on it that've stood the test of time. The rest... bleh. Kelly Grey being allowed to choose the guitar tone(s) was not good).
Operation: Mindcrime II - 5.
(Hostage's pretty good, which is perhaps not surprising that it's one of the few genuine QR songs on there, and there are a few other pretty good songs but the story is rubbish and even though the middle trio of songs is pretty rocking the lyrics are "Jeffrey's first high school play" level. Bad production).
American Soldier - 1.
(Flat production, boring songs. Gun metal grey throughout).
Dedicated To Chaos - 0.
(It's just appallingly bad. The one half decent song on there has a line in the middle of it I just can't work out the angle on so I won't listen to it anyway and thus the album simply has no value).
Queensryche - 8.
Condition Human - 7.
(S/T is too short but when it's good it's really good, Condition Human is more consistent but a bit bloated... it's a shame LaTorre doesn't have DeGarmo/Tate's ability for phonetically friendly lyrics as it leads to some pretty clumsy sounding stuff, but overall the albums are solid).
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EP - 5 (I only really like the first track :/)
The Warning - 6
Rage For Order - 8
Operation Mindcrime - 9
Empire - 9
Promised Land - 10
Hear In The Now Frontier - 4
Q2K - 5 (a few amazing tracks keeps it from being lower)
Tribe - 6
Operation Mindcrime II - 10
American Soldier - 7
Dedicated To Chaos - 1
QR12 - 7
Condition Human - 8
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EP - 5
The Warning - 8
Rage For Order - 9
Operation Mindcrime - 10
Empire - 10
Promised Land - 7
Hear In The Now Frontier - 4
Q2K - 7
Tribe - 1
Operation Mindcrime II - 2
American Soldier - 3
Dedicated To Chaos - never heard that one
QR12 - 7
Condition Human - 8
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EP - 7
The Warning - 8
Rage For Order - 9
Operation Mindcrime - 10
Empire - 10
Promised Land - 8
Hear In The Now Frontier - 7
Q2K - 5
Tribe - 6
Operation Mindcrime II - 4
American Soldier - 5
Dedicated To Chaos - My ears will never hear this
QR12 - 7
Condition Human - 8
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So I will say off the bat that QR basically has the best opening run of albums of any band I can think of:
EP - 9
Warning - 9.5
RFO - 9.75
O:M - 10
Empire - 9
Promised Land - 9.75
HitNF - 5
Q2K - 6
Tribe - 7.5
O:MII - 7
American Soldier - 7.5
D2C - 1
ST - 7.5
CH - 8.5
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OK, I'll play...
EP...9
Warning..10
RFO..8.8
O:M...10
Empire..8.5
…
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DifficultAgonizingDragonfly-small.gif)
…
Promised Land...6.1
HITNF...6
Q2K...6
Tribe...6
O:MII...5.9
American Soldier...7
D2C...never heard it
s/t...7.5
CH...7.9
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Operation: Mindcrime - 9.5
Promised Land - 9
Rage For Order - 8.5
The Warning - 8.5
Empire - 8
Hear In The Now Frontier - 7.5
Condition: human - 7.5
Tribe - 7.5
Queensryche - 7.5
American soldier - 7
Q2K - 6.5
Operation: Mindcrime II - 6
Dedicated To Chaos - 5
Frequency unknown - 5
The ones that I graded 7.5 switch around every now and then, though.
-
EP - 6.5
Warning - 7
Rage - 9
Mindcrime - 9
Empire - 8.5
Promised Land - 10
HITNF - 5
Q2K - 4
Everything since - 1 or 2
-
EP-6.5
Warning-7.5
Rage-9.5
Mindcrime-9.5
Empire-9.5
Promised Land-9.5
HITNF-5.5
Q2K-5
Tribe-5.5
OMCII-2
AS-n/a
DTC-n/a
s/t 2013-7.5
CH-7
-
EP...9
Warning..10
RFO..8.8
O:M...10
Empire..8.5
…
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DifficultAgonizingDragonfly-small.gif)
…
Promised Land...6.1
HITNF...6
...
:rollin :rollin :rollin
A very positive review by RodrigoAltaf:
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/album-reviews/queensryche-the-verdict/
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EP - 5 (I only really like the first track :/)
The Warning - 6
Rage For Order - 8
Operation Mindcrime - 9
Empire - 9
Promised Land - 10
Hear In The Now Frontier - 4
Q2K - 5 (a few amazing tracks keeps it from being lower)
Tribe - 6
Operation Mindcrime II - 10
American Soldier - 7
Dedicated To Chaos - 1
QR12 - 7
Condition Human - 8
This has me ............ intrigued.
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EP - 5 (I only really like the first track :/)
The Warning - 6
Rage For Order - 8
Operation Mindcrime - 9
Empire - 9
Promised Land - 10
Hear In The Now Frontier - 4
Q2K - 5 (a few amazing tracks keeps it from being lower)
Tribe - 6
Operation Mindcrime II - 10
American Soldier - 7
Dedicated To Chaos - 1
QR12 - 7
Condition Human - 8
This has me ............ intrigued.
I'm not saying that it's that bad, but the only way this can be looked at as anything other than an intentional joke is if he accidentally typed the extra 1 or 0 in there.
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So I will say off the bat that QR basically has the best opening run of albums of any band I can think of:
EP - 9
Warning - 9.5
RFO - 9.75
O:M - 10
Empire - 9
Promised Land - 9.75
HitNF - 5
Q2K - 6
Tribe - 7.5
O:MII - 7
American Soldier - 7.5
D2C - 1
ST - 7.5
CH - 8.5
This is how I'd rate them (except I haven't actually listed to anything between Q2K and the s/t).
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Oh, what the heck.
EP - n/r - I find it too hard to rate an EP. Two of the songs are top notch. One is good. One is bad. But there are only 4. How can this possibly compare to a full album?
The Warning - 6.5 - Not bad. But they hadn't quite gotten to the point where what they do coincides with my musical tastes.
Rage For Order - 7.5 - Now this is more like it. A few things that don't work, but this was a really solid, really creative piece of work.
Operation Mindcrime - 8.5 - Trite at times, and goes few places it probably shouldn't. But what a landmark concept album.
Empire - 10 - I could not ask for a better album.
Promised Land - 9.5 - The only knock on this album is that I think it meanders just a bit from the heavy side for just a bit too long. But, man, what a grand creative statement this album was. On any given day, it could be my favorite over Empire.
Hear In The Now Frontier - 8.5 - I subjectively like this album more than Mindcrime. But I cannot rank it higher because Mindcrime just had such a profound influence on my musical tastes and direction as a fan, and I know I am not the only one.
Q2K - 5 - A couple of "hits"; But mostly "misses."
Tribe - 6.5 - A few more "hits"; a few less "misses." But the ones that hit are really good.
Operation Mindcrime II - 7 - Man, really hard to rank. Up until Dio makes an appearance, it is actually a pretty solid album. And there are some cool moments after that as well. But the last quarter or so really takes a nosedive. "7" is probably a bit generous, but there are some things I really like.
American Soldier - 7/7.5 - The word that best sums up this album for me is "almost." Tate had some great ideas. Musically, it mostly executes very well. But there are a few misses here and there (album sequencing being a big one). And Geoff's vocal performance is an absolute mess. This would have been an 8.5 or maybe 9 otherwise.
Dedicated To Chaos - 0 - Granted I only listened once. But there was NOTHING I wanted to listen to again. Nothing.
QR12 - 8 - I liked this a lot. It sounded like where the band could logically have gone after PL or maybe Tribe. The songs just sounded a bit incomplete in places.
Condition Human - 8.5 - Perhaps the most solid album from start to finish other than Empire. A few missteps here and there, but I just cannot find much to criticize.
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A very positive review by RodrigoAltaf:
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/album-reviews/queensryche-the-verdict/
Where is the balance? It's a review, and I know all of those are subjective. But the old reporter in me can't help but notice that nothing in that review whatsoever has anything even remotely critical to say of the album. That's not a knock on Rodrigo AT ALL. Clearly, he was passionate about what he heard, and he's relaying his feelings. But when a review leaves out any critical commentary, it always leaves me with a feeling that I can't trust the review.
That said, the record's songs were described well, and thumbs up to Rodrigo for really illustrating that. One correction I'd like to point out though. It has to do with this statement:
Caught in a lifelong identity crisis, the band’s sound seemed to be pushed and pulled in all directions: main-man Geoff Tate seemingly wanted a more accessible approach, whereas the other members wanted to stick to their roots.
That's not at all accurate. Queensryche was never in any sort of "identity crisis." Their sound morphed, very much on purpose, from record to record, up through Tribe, and particularly through the tenure of the original lineup (EP-HITNF). That was very much a tenet of the band's creative identity - they prided themselves on that sonic evolution from record to record, and yet still maintaining a distinct sound that pulled it together as "Queensryche."
That sort of ended in 2006, when Tate went outside the band to write and record Mindcrime II and the records that followed. But to categorize Queensryche as being in a "lifelong identity crisis," is absolutely untrue.
In addition, regarding the comment about Tate, while I obviously don't speak for him, the statement regarding him wanting "a more accessible approach" is also untrue. The tension between the band and Tate had nothing to do with Tate wanting the music to be accessible. From a creative standpoint, it was more about control, rather than the actual music. For example, one of the most metal and heaviest riffs that made it on a Queensryche record was the one in Murderer. That riff was Michael Wilton's, and Tate loved the riff. But that's all WIlton had -- the riff. And not being a music writer, Tate really had nothing but that riff to go on. It took a third party (in this instance, Jason Slater) taking that riff, and turning it into a song, which Tate then could put lyrics and a melody to.
Without going too off topic, that's sort of why DeGarmo was absolutely so vital to the band. He'd take a lot of those Wilton riffs, and put it into something that really connected to Tate. That's why the three of them were so good together. Nowadays, with La Torre being a musician himself, and capable of playing guitar, he can take a Wilton riff, and add to it, change it, etc. So in that regard, it is easier now for Wilton (without DeGarmo) to really get creative, because he has a singer that can also write music and take his ideas different directions musically.
So, getting back to the statement, the tension wasn't about wanting more accessible music. It was about control, power, and money. That doesn't really flow well in a review, but that's really what it boiled down to.
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Another review
https://amnplify.com.au/portfolio-items/queensryche-the-verdict-album-review-19-02-19/
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EP - 8
The Warning - 7
Rage For Order - 10
Operation: Mindcrime - 10
Empire - 7
Promised Land - 9
Hear in the Now Frontier - 6
Q2Krap - 4 (but Right Side of My Mind is a 10)
Tribe - 7
Operation: Mindcrime II - 5
I have not heard American Soldier or Dedicated to Chaos, so I can't rank them. But I've been wanting to at least listen to AS based on some of the reviews.
Queesnsryche - 6.5 (the songs are much better, but it's too short and the horrible mastering drag it down)
Condition Human - 7.5
The TLT era may be its own thing, but there are moments. I still say that Eye9 would have been right at home on any classic original lineup album.
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I heard Whip on the Classic Metal Show. He was definitely upset with Pledge music. Danny Vaughn and Donnie Vie also got screwed by Pledge Music.
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I can now say I think this album will be the best since Promised Land. More importantly it sounds like a band comfortable with themselves. Nothing seems forced or intentionally pushing in any direction. Just a collection of good to great songs and Todd did a great job filling in for Scott. Much like with Condition Human, had the band simply pushed out of the gate with this, and rode it hard, we'd be talking about a band truly risen up from the ashes as opposed to a band fighting off (and losing IMO) a nostalgia act moniker.
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Condition Human already was the best since Promised Land. Are you saying this one is better?
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Condition Human already was the best since Promised Land.
Agreed.
Are you saying this one is better?
I'm only 4-5 listens in, but I can say that at this point I enjoy the feel of the album more for sure, and overall I'm confident at worst it'll settle as being as good as Condition Human, but likely better.
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Another very good review
http://www.metal-temple.com/site/catalogues/entry/reviews/cd_3/q_2/queensryche-the.htm
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Apparently every new Queensryche album is the best one since Promised Land, if each album's marketing press is to be believed. :lol
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Apparently every new Queensryche album is the best one since Promised Land, if each album's marketing press is to be believed. :lol
I remember that was said about Mindcrime II, American Soldier, QR 2013, and Condition Human too. :rollin
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Apparently every new Queensryche album is the best one since Promised Land, if each album's marketing press is to be believed. :lol
I remember that was said about Mindcrime II, American Soldier, QR 2013, and Condition Human too. :rollin
To be absolutely fair....in most people's minds, each one of those albums WAS better than the one that preceded it. (OK...maybe not with OMII, but all the rest) Which would make the statement technically correct.
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*Setlist spoilers below*
Looks like Todd wasn't kidding when he said they'd play more material from the newer records this time around: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/2019/turning-stone-resort-casino-verona-ny-7392b29d.html 13 songs (not counting the intro) seems a bit short, but they're playing 3 songs from The Verdict, 2 from CH and 1 from S/T. I bet they'll add in at least Dark Reverie and I Dream in Infrared once the actual tour gets started.
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Controversial opinion: Hear In The Now Frontier was the best Queensryche album since Promised Land :hat
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EP- 9.5
Warning- 9.5
RFO- 9.5
OM- 10
Empire- 9
Promised Land- 9
HINF- 7
Q2K- 6.5
Tribe- 7
OM2- 7.5
AS- 6.5
DTC- 1 (maybe too generous)
QR- 8
CH- 8
I’m confident the new one will get an 8 or 8.5 from what I’ve heard
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*Setlist spoilers below*
Looks like Todd wasn't kidding when he said they'd play more material from the newer records this time around: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/2019/turning-stone-resort-casino-verona-ny-7392b29d.html 13 songs (not counting the intro) seems a bit short, but they're playing 3 songs from The Verdict, 2 from CH and 1 from S/T. I bet they'll add in at least Dark Reverie and I Dream in Infrared once the actual tour gets started.
It's great they are doing that. But I agree -- 13 songs...WTF? I'll give em a pass for that show, because casino gigs are usually contracted for a specific time limit. But its nice to see them finally supporting the TLT era material. A couple albums too late, but at least they are doing it.
Controversial opinion: Hear In The Now Frontier was the best Queensryche album since Promised Land :hat
I've come to appreciate what Chris was doing with HITNF a LOT more over 22 years. I always liked my favorites from that record. But even tunes I was lukewarm on (Some People Fly, for instance), I've really embraced in recent years. There's too much filler on HITNF for sure. But there is a lot of guitar candy on the record -- just not in the traditional metal sense. And with a couple of exceptions, the lyrics are great too. HITNF is still the lowest ranked for me in the original QR discography, but I still believe that record, if a few songs shorter, and had EMI not folded and QPrime didn't bail on QR -- that record would have been really big for them.
Sign of the Times and You got a ton of airplay, and then all the marketing and radio push was stopped in its tracks. And back then, you needed all of that. They had The Voice Inside and spOOL lined up as singes, and frankly, I think they could have gone deeper, even going with Reach as a fifth if necessary. But when your label goes belly-up, and they stop haranguing the radio stations to play the singles, the record is going to crash and burn (at least in the mid-late-90s). And that's what happened. But there was a ton of potential there.
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*Setlist spoilers below*
Looks like Todd wasn't kidding when he said they'd play more material from the newer records this time around: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/2019/turning-stone-resort-casino-verona-ny-7392b29d.html 13 songs (not counting the intro) seems a bit short, but they're playing 3 songs from The Verdict, 2 from CH and 1 from S/T. I bet they'll add in at least Dark Reverie and I Dream in Infrared once the actual tour gets started.
It's great they are doing that. But I agree -- 13 songs...WTF? I'll give em a pass for that show, because casino gigs are usually contracted for a specific time limit. But its nice to see them finally supporting the TLT era material. A couple albums too late, but at least they are doing it.
Controversial opinion: Hear In The Now Frontier was the best Queensryche album since Promised Land :hat
I've come to appreciate what Chris was doing with HITNF a LOT more over 22 years. I always liked my favorites from that record. But even tunes I was lukewarm on (Some People Fly, for instance), I've really embraced in recent years. There's too much filler on HITNF for sure. But there is a lot of guitar candy on the record -- just not in the traditional metal sense. And with a couple of exceptions, the lyrics are great too. HITNF is still the lowest ranked for me in the original QR discography, but I still believe that record, if a few songs shorter, and had EMI not folded and QPrime didn't bail on QR -- that record would have been really big for them.
Sign of the Times and You got a ton of airplay, and then all the marketing and radio push was stopped in its tracks. And back then, you needed all of that. They had The Voice Inside and spOOL lined up as singes, and frankly, I think they could have gone deeper, even going with Reach as a fifth if necessary. But when your label goes belly-up, and they stop haranguing the radio stations to play the singles, the record is going to crash and burn (at least in the mid-late-90s). And that's what happened. But there was a ton of potential there.
I too hope the set gets longer, but I've got renewed interest to go to NYC to see those Todd songs I haven't had a chance to yet.
As for HitNF, yes, it could have been more successful, but that would not have made it any better. It's simply mediocre compared to everything that came before it, and frankly, to most of what came after it.
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New video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZNa1BONdu4
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According to a fan's report, they asked the band about the setlist and they plan to add another 5-ish songs to the set (on par with their standard 18-song set length over the last few years). They also claim that they will be rotating the setlists....not sure if that means they will have two different sets for headlining shows, or if they will have a set for headlining shows and a set for festivals, where they would feel more inclined to play the usual hits.
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I too hope the set gets longer, but I've got renewed interest to go to NYC to see those Todd songs I haven't had a chance to yet.
If I still had any interest in modern QR, I would be too. Great for fans of the current era for sure!
On that note - new video for Blood of the Levant - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZNa1BONdu4
As for HitNF, yes, it could have been more successful, but that would not have made it any better. It's simply mediocre compared to everything that came before it, and frankly, to most of what came after it.
Totally subjective. I disagree. I think the highlights on HITNF are light years better than most of what came after it. spOOL is still a top tune, and I rank Hit the Black and The Voice Inside pretty highly as well. Again, its all subjective. For the time period, and again, the success they were having with Sign of the Times (which was much more accepted in the mainstream in comparison to the singles for Promised Land), there was a great chance HITNF would have been much more successful (which you state, of course). I actually feel HITNF had the potential to eclipse PL in sales had the support been behind it. And while sales is not indicative of quality of course, there's more than enough on HITNF to support a successful cycle, had it had the chance for it. We'll never know, but HITNF certainly had a lot more to give.
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...I think they could have gone deeper, even going with Reach as a fifth if necessary.
I was in my last year of school at Berkeley when the album dropped, and there was a Bay Area radio station that was playing Reach. I always liked that song a lot. But it was one that I wish they had fleshed out a bit more. Wilton's solo was cool, but felt like a little interlude solo that should go between verses. If they had moved it there and done a longer, more complex bridge and solo section, that song could have been fantastic.
According to a fan's report, they asked the band about the setlist and they plan to add another 5-ish songs to the set (on par with their standard 18-song set length over the last few years). They also claim that they will be rotating the setlists....not sure if that means they will have two different sets for headlining shows, or if they will have a set for headlining shows and a set for festivals, where they would feel more inclined to play the usual hits.
That's cool. I like what they are apparently doing, based on that set list and the plan to add more songs. Condition Human, the song, is my least favorite song on that album and the only one I really feel like skipping. So it's inclusion evokes two different reactions from me: On one hand, I think it is REALLY cool that they are finally showing a commitment to the new material by pulling out deep tracks like this. But on the other hand, if them pulling out the worst track from their last two albums combined is the best compliment I can give them, then they really are falling flat on their faces in terms of knowing what fans want.
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I was in my last year of school at Berkeley when the album dropped, and there was a Bay Area radio station that was playing Reach. I always liked that song a lot. But it was one that I wish they had fleshed out a bit more. Wilton's solo was cool, but felt like a little interlude solo that should go between verses. If they had moved it there and done a longer, more complex bridge and solo section, that song could have been fantastic.
If it was 1990 instead of 1997, I think they might have done that. But remember the timeframe, and remember what they were trying to accomplish with HITNF. Less was more back then. It was an experiment in stripping things away. I felt Reach's solo fit that, and was one of the better examples of how to do it right. It repeats the same riffing two or three times, and then goes up a short run down the fretboard. I think Reach's solo though really was all that tune called for, which was the point at the time -- it was just a sign of the times.
One of the things I love about the song is the clean guitar in the verses that just strummed gave it some atmosphere before kicking in right before the chorus with the other guitar. I also think the little solo during the last chorus before the outro was a nice touch as well. Love the song as-is from the get-go.
That said, I wouldn't mind if the band tinkered with that one live, and did as you suggest. Why the hell not, ya know? Times are different, re-work it for the live show, see what happens.
I remember on the Tribe tour (the headline one in fall 2003), Wilton did something similar and came up with a small guitar lead for "The Great Divide" because people were clamoring to add a solo. https://youtu.be/BSg04855L1E?t=104
It was cool, and added a little bit to the mood of the tune.
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While we're on the subject of HITNF, the guitar solos on the record are a total highlight. DeGarmo's are absolutely inspired by Alice in Chains, but being a fan, I dig that. As I mentioned up above, I think there's a lot of ear candy, guitar-wise on the record. It's just very different than what people expected after stuff like the EP, Mindcrime, and Empire. But there is a ton of good stuff in there.
A song like Cuckoo's Nest, while not a great song overall to me, has a great solo by DeGarmo that absolutely tries to channel what Jerry Cantrell does (which should not be surprising, considering that DeGarmo and Cantrell are close friends). The guitars overall are extremely nuanced, just not in a classic metal/hard rock sense. That's one of the things I have really grown to appreciate from that record over the years, and has me still coming back to it 22 years later.
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I was in my last year of school at Berkeley when the album dropped, and there was a Bay Area radio station that was playing Reach. I always liked that song a lot. But it was one that I wish they had fleshed out a bit more. Wilton's solo was cool, but felt like a little interlude solo that should go between verses. If they had moved it there and done a longer, more complex bridge and solo section, that song could have been fantastic.
If it was 1990 instead of 1997, I think they might have done that. But remember the timeframe, and remember what they were trying to accomplish with HITNF. Less was more back then.
Oh, sure. I totally get it. And I actually like most of what they did on that album, even if it wasn't "typical" Queensryche. I actually feel like they were successful in what they were trying to accomplish. But that is one song that I just subjectively feel could have been the one bone they could have thrown to the old school fans who weren't onboard with what they were doing on that album. It was already one of the more straightforward, Queensryche sounding rockers on the album.
But it is what it is. Still a very good song either way.
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re: HITNF guitar leads. One of the things I really appreciate now, much more than 22 years ago, was the experimentation with typical placement of leads. There is guitar soloing ALL OVER "spOOL," and instead of it being where it traditionally would be, listen behind the choruses. There are guitar leads being played each time, and each time, they are different. All aggressive, experimenting with some wah, but also some clean stuff, and then they just forego the traditional solo, and do this moody bridge leading into another background lead line into the chorus (which again has a different lead, its in the same wheelhouse, but slightly different than the other two times, and at times gets a bit shreddy). And then the harmony effect leading to the end of the tune.
Again, so much guitar ear candy in there. Its just understated. I'm not saying HITNF is a great album. Clearly, it has its warts and issues. But it seriously has improved with the passage of time, and there's so many levels to it that is so inspiring, even two decades later. It's really a shame what went down way back then.
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I always looked at that album as a band sonically trying something different. I really liked it.
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That's cool. I like what they are apparently doing, based on that set list and the plan to add more songs. Condition Human, the song, is my least favorite song on that album and the only one I really feel like skipping. So it's inclusion evokes two different reactions from me: On one hand, I think it is REALLY cool that they are finally showing a commitment to the new material by pulling out deep tracks like this. But on the other hand, if them pulling out the worst track from their last two albums combined is the best compliment I can give them, then they really are falling flat on their faces in terms of knowing what fans want.
Well, I as a fan think that Condition Human is a great song, so I don't see them falling flat on their faces by including it, and they seem to know what at leats one fan wants. ;)
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re: Condition Human (the song)
I dig the moodiness of if, but it gets to that point where it becomes a rehash of Suite Sister Mary. Very derivative. I may have said this earlier in the thread, but if they just removed that whole gothic middle part, I think the song would have been better.
re: HITNF
I always looked at that album as a band sonically trying something different. I really liked it.
I remember when it came out, I was shocked at first, and it took a bit to get into it. Eventually I did. But while I had been a fan since 1987, I wasn't really educated in music, and what goes into writing, and the little details. Nowadays, going back to a lot of old record, with a lot of years and music listening and education under my belt, I can pick out stuff I just glossed over before, and really finding some gold. There was so much more to it under the surface.
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Another very good review
http://www.metalinjection.net/reviews/queensryche-the-verdict
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Video for Blood of the Levant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZNa1BONdu4
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I was in my last year of school at Berkeley when the album dropped, and there was a Bay Area radio station that was playing Reach. I always liked that song a lot. But it was one that I wish they had fleshed out a bit more. Wilton's solo was cool, but felt like a little interlude solo that should go between verses. If they had moved it there and done a longer, more complex bridge and solo section, that song could have been fantastic.
If it was 1990 instead of 1997, I think they might have done that. But remember the timeframe, and remember what they were trying to accomplish with HITNF. Less was more back then. It was an experiment in stripping things away. I felt Reach's solo fit that, and was one of the better examples of how to do it right. It repeats the same riffing two or three times, and then goes up a short run down the fretboard. I think Reach's solo though really was all that tune called for, which was the point at the time -- it was just a sign of the times.
One of the things I love about the song is the clean guitar in the verses that just strummed gave it some atmosphere before kicking in right before the chorus with the other guitar. I also think the little solo during the last chorus before the outro was a nice touch as well. Love the song as-is from the get-go.
That said, I wouldn't mind if the band tinkered with that one live, and did as you suggest. Why the hell not, ya know? Times are different, re-work it for the live show, see what happens.
I remember on the Tribe tour (the headline one in fall 2003), Wilton did something similar and came up with a small guitar lead for "The Great Divide" because people were clamoring to add a solo. https://youtu.be/BSg04855L1E?t=104
It was cool, and added a little bit to the mood of the tune.
Thats a great video. I feel Tribe is really under appreciated. Its has great songs...Open, Rhythm of Hope, The Great Divide, Desert Dance. I enjoy the tribal feel it has.
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The only songs I'm not really a fan of are Losing Myself (which was written by Mike Stone), and Doin' Fine (which sounds fine musically, but I really dislike the lyrics and vocal melody Tate used). I'm not huge on Blood either, because the song is incomplete, and the implications Tate is making with the song (I preferred when QR encouraged us to think, rather than tell us what to think, or who they blame, etc.)
Tribe is a such a let down. There was a lot of promise there. Most of those songs weren't really done. Blood wasn't finished, a guitar solo wasn't added to The Great Divide (they were going to, ran out of time), and some stuff was sort of half-baked.
The DeGarmo-involved stuff, to me, is superior:
Open
Desert Dance
Falling Behind
The Art of Life
Doin' Fine
Justified (meant for Tribe, found on Sign of the Times: The Best of QR)
But the remainder isn't bad at all, just needed a bit more work:
The Great Divide
Tribe
Rhythm of Hope
Losing Myself
Blood
Hostage (the song was finished after Tribe was submitted, and it was re-cut to add the courtroom stuff, and a harmonized solo instead of Wilton's little shred solo on Mindcrime II)
Had the original band stayed together, and none of the drama happened, we probably would have gotten a great record from top to bottom (Losing Myself probably would never have even surfaced, and Blood may never have been done either), with some real emotional bent to it. Tate was inspired for sure, and it is a shame the record never really got done the way I think they were all intending it to. I really enjoyed that little solo Wilton wrote for The Great Divide. And yes, the tribal feel worked for me too.
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I'm probably one of the few that enjoys Tribe a lot. One of things that I like is the vocal melodies on this one. Most of the tunes are catchy. It feels that all of the instruments support Tate's voice and melodies.
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I like Tribe a lot and also prefer the DeGarmo material of the album.
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I’ve just never got the love for Tribe. Nothing on there that interested me at all, even with the return of CDG. I’d take Q2K over it.
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I still wish the band would perform Open Live.
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That has to be my favorute Queensryche song.
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I’ve just never got the love for Tribe. Nothing on there that interested me at all, even with the return of CDG. I’d take Q2K over it.
Thank you! I've been of that same opinion for a long time. I like a handful of songs on Tribe, but that's all. Q2K is a better record to me. :metal
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For me, if you listen to the DeGarmo-involved tracks, you see a natural progression of them from HITNF. It was like that sonic evolutionary thread picked up, and you saw something with some more straight ahead riffs, some more mood, and a slightly better mix. It was a continuation of where they were in a slightly new direction. I really dug what those DeGarmo-involved Tribe tracks were doing.
The other tracks, as unfinished as they were to a degree (and to be fair, Open was also unfinished, it was missing a solo, something Wilton sort of put in during the live set a little), also had a new vibe. Moody, darker, harkening back to PL with the mood, but with a modern hard rock flair.
Generally these days I just listen to the DeGarmo tracks. I like hearing the band's evolutionary path as songwriters continued. But it will always disappoint me that the reunion was ruined by power and greed.
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is it just me or does this section of "Dark Reverie" sound like Savatage's "Gutter Ballet"?
https://youtu.be/t3dcf1EekiE?t=193
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New video review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAWgQ9u4bQg
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A bit late on the album ranking here, but anyway... in preference order. Queensryche was my favorite band before I've heard DT/I&W in 1993. Still, as you will see, I kind of never gave up from the band, even in its "darkest" moments. In 1 to 10 scale:
O:M and Empire: 10
RFO: 9,5
Warning, EP and PL: 9
HITNF: 8,5 (I guess I like this album much more than the majority here)
Queensryche and CH: 8,5 (by the way, CH is the best song off the latter IMO)
O:M2: 8,0
AS and FU: 7,5 (Call me crazy about FU)
Q2K: 7,00
Tribe: 6,00 (Even in the CDG tracks, the band really doesn't sound unified)
DTC: 5,0 (it's not so bad to my ears, really)
So... like the reviews say, the best albums since PL? HITNF and the ones with TLT, no doubt!
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I’ve just never got the love for Tribe. Nothing on there that interested me at all, even with the return of CDG. I’d take Q2K over it.
Yeah, same here. Worst QR record imo (maybe that would be D2C, but I haven't heard it in full). Tribe is just boring from start to finish, CDG adds nothing interesting.
But then I'm one of those that really enjoy Q2K. ;)
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Q2k has had some staying power for me. I've said this for years, but I thought as a debut record with a new main songwriter, it was pretty good, and had me wanting to see where they went with album 2, and it never happened. It really did sound like a different band (for the most part). I remember when I was in law school at the time, I had it on in my living room, and my roommate listened, and he said "THAT'S QUEENSRYCHE?" Not in a bad way, it was just so different for him (the last he has heard was Empire).
He thought it was modern and good, and that was coming from a guy who really wasn't a music junkie or big fan. He just loved hard rock in general.
I thought that was an interesting take, and a couple of others said the same. Q2k, released with a different band's name, with a lot of backing, probably would have generated interest. But it came with the Queensryche name tag, expectations, etc. Is it a great record? Of course not. It's OK. It had some promising stuff, and some duds. But the chemistry after the initial tour was obviously not right, given what happened with them all. It was probably better left in the past.
But I still really dig Howl (bonus track), When the Rain Comes, Liquid Sky, Falling Down, Right Side, and Sacred Ground (musically. the lyrics were awful. No more odes to the nether regions of wives please - lol). Burning Man had promise, musically, but they never really fleshed it out like I hoped they would. That intro is cool.
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Sacred Ground (musically. the lyrics were awful. No more odes to the nether regions of wives please - lol).
This! I only just got into this album the other day, and that is the song that has been stuck in my head the most.
You change a single word from "inside", to "beside", and the song becomes much more tolerable :rollin
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(Edit: ignore this, it was probably a bad idea :facepalm:)
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Sacred Ground (musically. the lyrics were awful. No more odes to the nether regions of wives please - lol).
This! I only just got into this album the other day, and that is the song that has been stuck in my head the most.
You change a single word from "inside", to "beside", and the song becomes much more tolerable :rollin
It actually makes an enormous difference. :lol
I spent the last several days revisiting Condition human. I know it is a popular thing to say, but that one truly was the best Queensryche album since Promised land. It's so consistent, well-rounded, sonically flawless and catchy. It feels like a real band effort with all five guys being involved. The artwork is also very good.
It's gonna be hard for The Verdict to top it, really.
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Sacred Ground (musically. the lyrics were awful. No more odes to the nether regions of wives please - lol).
This! I only just got into this album the other day, and that is the song that has been stuck in my head the most.
You change a single word from "inside", to "beside", and the song becomes much more tolerable :rollin
It actually makes an enormous difference. :lol
I spent the last several days revisiting Condition human. I know it is a popular thing to say, but that one truly was the best Queensryche album since Promised land. It's so consistent, well-rounded, sonically flawless and catchy. It feels like a real band effort with all five guys being involved. The artwork is also very good.
It's gonna be hard for The Verdict to top it, really.
I actually really like a lot of The Verdict. Condition Human had too many mid-tempo or slow songs/ballads. The Verdict is full of faster and heavier songs - I've only given it one quick listen, but the album sounds really good too.
The Condition Human artwork sucks. It's blocky and looks incredibly amateur...which it actually is. Todd's friend is an artist and was struggling with some hard times, so he threw the guy a bone and let him do the album artwork. It was so dark that when it was printed, you couldn't even see the details or read the song titles clearly.
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Apparently there's a 2CD edition of The Verdict and has the bonus tracks from Condition Human
Disc 1
01. Blood of the Levant (03:27)
02. Man The Machine (03:50)
03. Light-years (04:09)
04. Inside Out (04:31)
05. Propaganda Fashion (03:36)
06. Dark Reverie (04:23)
07. Bent (05:59)
08. Inner Unrest (03:50)
09. Launder the Conscience (05:15)
10. Portrait (05:16)
Disc 2
01. I Dream in Infrared (Acoustic) (03:59)
02. Open Road (Acoustic) (03:39)
03. 46° North (03:33)
04. Mercury Rising (03:55)
05. Espiritu Muerto (03:40)
06. Queen of the Reich (live) (Live 2012) (04:34)
07. En Force (live) (Live 2012) (04:21)
08. Prophecy (live) (Live 2012) (04:09)
09. Eyes Of A Stranger (Live 2012) (06:55)
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And the bonus tracks from the self-titled (the live stuff). My guess is, this is the last record on QR's deal with Century Media. So they are getting it all out there.
Listening to The Verdict now...
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And the bonus tracks from the self-titled (the live stuff). My guess is, this is the last record on QR's deal with Century Media. So they are getting it all out there.
Listening to The Verdict now...
Give us your opinion when you have finished listening. What I've heard kinda appeals to me.
B.Lee
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I was just doing that. Here's an off-the-cuff report, written as I was listening:
Blood of the Levant – Good drama at the beginning, holding those notes. Rhythms under the verses are simplistic, really highlight La Torre’s voice. Mix seems to feature him a bit more than I remember Condition Human doing. Bridge to the song is classic QR leading into that solo…err…wait, that was the solo? Ok, so they do two bridges, and then a harmonized guitar solo part before kicking back in again. Kinda cool, but neither really goes anywhere. Not a bad lead track, but not really Queensryche-ish.
Man the Machine – this sounds like the guitar overtones of Operation: Mindcrime in the beginning, along with Wilton’s classic Rychean shread style. I like the little lead break after the first verse. Again, classic QR sounding guitar lead by Wilton. The chorus is better than I remember it being the first time I heard it. Not hugely melodic, but that “broken, broken” part has nice drama to it. Not sure who is doing the solo, it sounds like Wilton a little, but could be Parker. La Torre sounds pretty loose too, much more setting his own tone and imprint. That time change at the end, nice little nod to the proggy side of the band. I don’t really like the section, but the shift was cool to close.
Light Years – dramatic intro ala Promised Land, and a great heavy, yet melodic intro. Not a classic QR sounding intro, but once the guitars cut down, I love Ed’s bass. More mid-tempo here. La Torre singing a little deeper here, trying to use his chest voice a bit more. Without remembering the credits, this sounds like a song Ed wrote, particularly in the chorus. I love the moody guitar after the chorus mixed with the bass line. Really cool. Then the solo. Harmonized, but different for QR. Sounds like Parker wrote this one and is doubled by Wilton. Could be wrong, but doesn’t seem like Wilton’s style. Unlike the first two, this one sounds less influenced by classic QR, and more their own thing in a post-Tate and post-DeGarmo world.
Inside Out – What the hell is that intro. Very, very different for the band. I think this is the one some people compared to Hear in the Now Frontier. I don’t hear that, but it does have a more stripped down, slower pace to it to start, and some funky rhythm. The chorus is a little more traditional and ramps up the intensity a bit. Another mid-tempo cut, and the most unique so far. Song never really goes anywhere to me though. The time changes are cool. I dig the bridge, very clean guitars, just serene picking with a slight middle eastern flavor until the solo, which sounds like Wilton to me, ala Another Rainy Night to a degree. Then the song changes again, with some orchestration before kicking back into a mid-tempo but heavier section, then aggressive before just fading out over the last 20 second. Man, this song is different for them. Not sure I like it. Needs more time, but it was cool to hear something different.
Propaganda Fashion – Kicks right off in an aggressive manner. Did La Torre just say “mother fuckers” in a Queensryche song? Wow. This song is all over the place. It is jumpy. The chorus sounds like something Tate did on Dedicated to Chaos, at least tonally. The solo is basically forgettable, and then more ranting in the verses. I really don’t like this one. It has some cool guitar harmonics, but sounds like a cross between Condition Human/Dedicated to Chaos/Hear in the Now Frontier. Weird.
Dark Reverie – I love the intro musically. But this whole power ballad thing is not my thing any longer. I know most people have heard this, and I listened when it came out. But the only spot I really like is about the 1:20 mark with the cool guitar lick that goes over everything that is a bit buzzing. That’s a nice effect. The chorus does nothing for me. The keyboards just stand out as unnecessary. I don’t feel like the song goes anywhere. Sorta the same reaction to the last two songs. Even the bridge/solo section just kind exists, it doesn’t heighten the song for me. Not very impressed. The intro and outro clean guitar is the best part of the tune.
Bent – I love the darker riffing to start this tune. Great lead in the intro too. Different, choppy, love La Torre getting angry. The vocal effects are nice too. A little overdone, but then it kicks into a Vindication-like vibe and nice guitar parts. Killer angry note with some edge by La Torre around the 1 minute mark or so. The verses are choppy, not very melodic, and there’s a lot of vocal effects. I’m a bigger fan of the chorus section at the 2 minute mark, much more melodic. Another time change for the bridge. References to “sacred grounds,” almost spit out my coffee. Thank God its not about a woman’s nether regions again. Solo is a harmonized, slower, melodic one. Then it sounds like Parker does a single solo after the harmonized part. Love the end of it, not so much the beginning. They hook up and harmonize at the end. Nice touch. Coming out of the solo, it just sort of meanders. Man, I get being proggy, but stuff never really goes anywhere. Let me guess, aggressive coming up? Nope…As we all fall down again lyric line. I’m just not finding a lot of good melodies on this album up to this part. Ending of the song is dramatic. Dig the ending. Again, another one where the intro and ending sound best to me.
Inner Unrest – Catchy guitar riffs to start, mid-tempo, nice lead line, by Wilton to really get things started into La Torre. Another mid-tempo song. Drums sound flat here. Love Wilton’s lead work on this song. Typical Michael, nothing really innovative, but you know him when you hear him. The chorus really just doesn’t hook me. That seems to be a recurring observation. Nice moody bridge. Reminds me of an Iced Earth bridge the way the harmonics are. Solo shifts tempo, really moody, some harmonized parts. Yeah, now its getting heavy. Ok, I really like the solo. Then La Torre trying to channel the old style Tate spoken words that are lower in volume so you have to figure it out. Then back to the chorus. Eh. Love the guitars on this one though.
Launder the Conscience – mid-tempo again to start, then more aggressive in the verses. I like the verses quite a bit here. More effects on La Torre’s vocals. Lead guitar add some great drama. That’s also a recurring theme. The lead guitars really giving the songs some extra drama. Not really a fan of the chorus on this one (“find a solution” is sung weird) until the actual title of the song. La Torre delivers that nicely. Solo is harmonized, mid-tempo, usual stuff, but then picks up in intensity, which I dig, without losing the mood. Shred fest on the fretboard leads out to a moody section that has some recorded television or radio report, which is a nice touch, and then a short bridge to the chorus again. Then another bridge with some…PIANO? WTF? Then an evil sounding full band kicks in that sounds nothing like the first part of the tune, and then piano again. Is this Dream Theater? Gets melodic over the last minute. Majestic, even. Pace kicks back up. Damn it, this whole closing section after the second bridge is the coolest thing so far from them on this record, and the song just ends. WTF! Take that somewhere. THAT should have been the seed of the song. Man.
Portrait – Mid-tempo bass line and drums open, with some light guitar work, and then bass and drums drive the first verse with La Torre vocal, with the guitar piping in slightly for some harmonic drama. Not really a fan of this verse, but the chorus is nice, which starts around 1:02. That kind of sounds like Alice in Chains to my ear, but its clean, and harmonized vocals. This song is another VERY different tune. Doesn’t really sound like classic Queensryche at all. Wait, yes it does. I can’t place it, but the verses, musically, and how the guitars play off the vocal, there’s something there. I just can’t remember what old school QR tune. I like it around the 2:20 mark, again, there’s that chorus part again. That’s a killer section. “When you’re lost and lonely and you’re reaching for it…the sky lost in gray” – something like that. That’s really cool. It kind of reminds me of “Chasing Blue Sky.” Then the solo has this Rush vibe. Not sure if it is Wilton or Lundgren, but whoever it is channels Alex Lifeson a little. REALLY dig that chorus. Totally a Chasing Blue Sky vibe. Second solo comes in, again, REALLY cool. La Torre floats over it “when your lost and lonely” “and you’re reaching for me.” Really nicely done. Kind of like Open Road off the self-titled. The outro plays off that, and tries to add the majesty of an “Anybody Listening.” Doesn’t really reach that high point, but that was what they were going for.
Overall, wow, I’m not sure what I think. This was my first listen, from top to bottom. There are some standout moments for sure. They went proggy with some time and tempo changes, and also tried to spread their wings and really depart (I think) from the classic QR sound – as they should. I applaud them for that. I’m just not sure as a whole, the record will have staying power. Maybe it will. There's a lot of interesting stuff going on. But I'm not sure all the cool parts play together nicely.
Let’s get the obvious out of the way – I think while the record has melodic moments all over it, it doesn’t have a lot of MEMORABLE melodic moments, as in big choruses. The choruses aren’t those anthemic ones like you heard on the self-titled. Or the statement like choruses we remember from classic Queensryche. Musically, its really a mixed bag. Generally, I’d say other than the first two songs, they went mostly mid-tempo on this one, and tried to bring a bit of that moodier feel to the band. It works in some parts (as I said, I REALLY love the chorus musically in Portrait, and the closing section in Launder the Conscience. Man, those are good).
Guitar-wise, again, there are moments. One thing that I’ll bring to the table is, Wilton, as much as I love Mike’s solos, they tend to sound the same a bit, particularly the fast ones. He has his signature way of doing solos, and those really are prominent here and he plays them well. But I like his more moody stuff a bit more. And I think he has some good moments here too, but when it goes moody, I tend to wonder who it is, is it Whip, or is it Parker? It’d be nice to know. But the guitars were good on the record.
Bass – Ed is Ed. One of the best in the game, and severely underrated. I’m not sure I like how his bass is mixed though. I felt he was more prominent, thumpier, on other records. And I love me some Ed Bass bass. His performance is good, but I found myself really having to work hard to hear it with everything else going on. I loved his work on Light Years. Really dug it. But that’s the most memorable bass work on the record that I can remember after one listen.
Ok, so the drums. Well, I don’t care what any of the early reviewers (who are cherry-picked by the band) say, you absolutely can tell its not Rockenfield. La Torre does an admirable job, but he’s no Scott Rockenfield, and the drums are very understated in the mix. You can tell parts he tries to emulate Scott, and borrows some fills, but he has a much different groove. Honestly, I think without Scott, they should have just let Casey do the drums. If you're going to go different, just go different. La Torre served the song, but you can tell there is something different. And I’ll get back to that in a moment.
Vocally, the record is fine. I think La Torre is expanding a bit, trying new ways to deliver. He hits a few high notes, but for the most part, he’s trying different things, not as high, more eclectic ways of presenting himself, using vocal effects (like Tate did here and there). I think he sounds more like himself on this record for sure. His imprint is all over it, including the direction they took.
Ok, so that direction. Let’s just say it, other than Wilton’s guitars, the threads connecting this to classic Queensryche are getting thinner and thinner. That’s obvious, given the lineup changes. And with Scott Rockenfield gone, the whole rhythm style of the band is different. It just is, no matter how hard La Torre worked to channel Scott at times. That can be positive or negative. I think of it as a positive for those of the opinion this is a different band anyway. They are becoming La Torre’s band. His touch, both with the vocals and now drums, have really steered Queensryche into a direction very much away from what we all remember. There are moments for sure, like Man the Machine, that call back, but for the most part, the band is forging its identity, and they should be proud of that.
But if you’re evaluating them and saying “Queensryche needs to be in the same styles we heard from 1983-1990), you’re going to be disappointed. That isn’t them any longer, at least not on The Verdict, with some exceptions. The DeGarmo vibe, which I consider to be the big choruses, melodic touch, and majestic playing are really gone. And the feel Rockenfield had. That Rush-inspired groove…very much gone. And while La Torre has some Tate-like moments, they are less and less. So if you’re evaluating this in comparison to Queensryche’s prime, you’re going to be in for a disappointment. However, if you liked the direction they took on Condition Human, say a mix of Eye 9, Hellfire, Just Us, and Guardian, and want them to continue that and go different places from there, you’ll like it quite a bit.
Overall, I think The Verdict is very choppy. They have a lot going on, with a lot of tempo and time changes, and while that is cool, its kind of jarring, at least on first listen. But because there is so much going on, it will require multiple listens. But I can’t shake the feeling that some songs had some great ideas embedded in them that would have been cooler had they been lifted and worked on as their own tunes, instead of trying to slap cool parts together to make a “proggy” album. That's subjective, and obviously based on personal taste, of course.
Anyway, there you have it. Some off-the-cuff reactions to my first listen to the record.
My top tracks, just on one listen: Light Years, Man the Machine. Those two, and Portrait stood out.
p.s. for those that care about this, the album is shorter. 10 songs, 45 minutes. Doesn't bother me, but I know some people have issue with that. I think it is fine.
I will say, on second listen, the album is coming together for me more. I like it better. Again, so much going on (for Queensryche) it takes a bit. I'm digging some songs more than I did. Inner Unrest, Launder the Conscience.
Update - OK, so through listen #3. Yeah, it is growing on me for sure. There are still some strange moments, but I am liking things better on subsequent listens. I think my main gripe for this record is going to be that the shifts in tempo and time signatures don't always feel smooth. Like they were forced. Sometimes its just abrupt. That, and I just don't get that bigger chorus vibe. But I can see what a lot of it would appeal to progressive metal fans. They made it a point to go that route.
I'm not really a fan of the current Queensryche these days, but you have to applaud them by trying something different. Whether it works for you is obviously personal. It works in spurts for me. Congrats to them, and here's hoping people dig it.
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Thanks for the detailed review Brian! I was hoping the new album would shift away from the more mid tempo sound and into a more heavier direction. Sounds like it has it’s heavier moments but stays in the mid tempo mode for the majority. Interested in hearing it tommorow
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Thanks for the detailed review Brian! I was hoping the new album would shift away from the more mid tempo sound and into a more heavier direction. Sounds like it has it’s heavier moments but stays in the mid tempo mode for the majority. Interested in hearing it tommorow
It has those aggressive moments, but not for full songs. Just passages. Its heavy without a doubt, its just not always aggressive, if that makes sense. A lot of the songs switch tempos throughout.
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Mine arrives tomorrow.
Is there any of the "weirdness" factor? Seems like EJ tried to capture a bit of that on Eye9 (one of my main reasons for loving it so much). I always had an affinity for their "I think I might be going mad" side. I guess "eerie" might be another way of putting it?
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I still have a few songs to go on my first listen, but man oh man, this album rocks! I was very impressed with QR '13 and Condition Human, but The Verdict is on a whole different level. Fans of Promised Land are going to find a lot of material to enjoy. And I haven't even heard Portrait yet, which seems to be an early fan favorite.
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Mine arrives tomorrow.
Is there any of the "weirdness" factor? Seems like EJ tried to capture a bit of that on Eye9 (one of my main reasons for loving it so much). I always had an affinity for their "I think I might be going mad" side. I guess "eerie" might be another way of putting it?
Yes, there is most definitely a weird and eerie vibe to this album! :hat
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The Verdict: very good impression on first/second listen! Like Samsara wrote, it struck me that the striking choruses are practically nonexistent, however, there's several very good instrumental passages and good melodies in all the songs. The songs are short, but with a lot of variation. Excellent guitar work in all the songs. Good drumming on the album, similar to what Scott would do, but it's noticeable the difference, since Scott's drumming has a lot of personality and quality.
It does stray a bit more from the original QR sound, but still with a lot of influences, but with a more prog metal twist. Todd continues to remind me a lot more of Ray Alder between Perfect Simmetry/Parallels than Geoff Tate. Great performances in all the album.
Early favorites: Blood of the Levant, Light-Years (guitar riff from the intro reminds me DT-Home. Very cool bass lines in the middle of the song), Bent, Lauder the Consicience (what a beautiful orchestration in the end!) and Portrait (This one has that somewhat strange atmosphere, very much in the style of a great QR album closer).
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Thanks for the review, Samsara.
B.Lee
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Thanks for the review, Samsara.
B.Lee
Welcome!
Mine arrives tomorrow.
Is there any of the "weirdness" factor? Seems like EJ tried to capture a bit of that on Eye9 (one of my main reasons for loving it so much). I always had an affinity for their "I think I might be going mad" side. I guess "eerie" might be another way of putting it?
Morning. Yep, as a couple of people responded, it does. There are a couple of weird parts for sure. The album is good. And the comment about PL by Dittomist, not really sure I agree. I mean, it is in the sense there is some atmosphere in songs. But that whole vibe of PL, that desperation-like feeling that it had, no, The Verdict doesn't match that IMO.
But the band should be proud of themselves. They really departed from the classic QR sound except for Wilton's lead style, and a couple of tunes. And those that were waiting for them to be more proggy, well this is it. They've made "Queensryche" come out from the shadow of DeGarmo. It's not my personal cup of tea, because what made QR distinct and memorable to me is really gone (except for Wilton's tone and style). But for others that wanted a proggy metal band that has its own unique sound, well, this is it.
And whoever said that La Torre sounds more like No Exit/Perfect Symmetry era Ray Alder hit the nail on the head. I felt that with Condition Human, and for sure this time.
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Anyone know whether the deluxe is available now in the U.S.? I see it on Amazon as an import with a 3/8 release date.
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I am pretty hesitant to check this out, because of how awful the band has been for the last 20 years, but how is the sound of the album? I remember the first with the new singer being really talked up, and then I heard it and wanted to retch because of how terrible the sound was (like listening to an old transistor radio). If the new one is anything like that, I won't even bother.
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Anyone know whether the deluxe is available now in the U.S.? I see it on Amazon as an import with a 3/8 release date.
I don't think so. Century Media's U.S. website didn't even sell it. I ordered mine from CMDistro's worldwide site, but had I ordered it from Amazon.co.uk, I would have saved about $7. The Amazon UK site was still cheaper than buying it as an import from the Amazon U.S. site...
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I am pretty hesitant to check this out, because of how awful the band has been for the last 20 years, but how is the sound of the album? I remember the first with the new singer being really talked up, and then I heard it and wanted to retch because of how terrible the sound was (like listening to an old transistor radio). If the new one is anything like that, I won't even bother.
The production on the last two records is awesome and has been handled by Zeuss (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeuss) - he's done the most recent releases from Iced Earth and Sanctuary, among others.
They sound nothing like the 2013 self titled record, which is the only album in my collection of over 1,000 albums that actually hurts my ears to listen to.
I'm actually really enjoying The Verdict. I've been rather tired of this lineup of the band for a number of reasons and this is a really nice, refreshing album.
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I'm actually really enjoying The Verdict. I've been rather tired of this lineup of the band for a number of reasons and this is a really nice, refreshing album.
They did a really nice job. It's a good album. I'm not a fan of the drum sound on it (in no way being critical of the playing itself, other than to say it is noticeably different than Scott), but aside from that, I think it sounds really good.
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I'm not fun
#truth
:rollin
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I'm not fun
#truth
:rollin
Totally. :lol
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The production on the last two records is awesome and has been handled by Zeuss (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeuss) - he's done the most recent releases from Iced Earth and Sanctuary, among others.
They sound nothing like the 2013 self titled record, which is the only album in my collection of over 1,000 albums that actually hurts my ears to listen to.
Okay. Maybe I will give the single a whirl on YT later and see if it catches my ear at all.
Looks like the dynamic range is poor (see link below), so I can't say I am optimistic, although there are a lot of albums which score poorly on the DR scale that I like the sound of, so you just never know.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159599
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So after reading this thread, I am now listening to this on Spotify. I was taken aback with the start because the opening song of the album did not have an introduction and just went full speed into the main riff. :lol
Liking it so far.
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Second half is definitely better than the first to me. Based on the first half it was a 7, thanks to the second it’s an 8 and it could go up to a 9.
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Good album. But there's not many memorable moments in the album in my opinion. Strong songs but nothing out of the ball park.
Even though Fates is the opener, I think FW might pull off a better show than QR in this run they are doing together.
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Even though Fates is the opener, I think FW might pull off a better show than QR in this run they are doing together.
I don't know how big QR is doing its production, since they are playing clubs. Probably a couple of screens. My guess its Fates will just have a banner. But after seeing Fates four (about to be seven) times the last six years, they are extremely energetic and tight. When they played a couple songs from No Exit in LA and San Diego last year, the crowd lost it. Ray may not hit high notes, but that band knows how rock. It'll be interesting to see if they upstage QR.
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Good album. But there's not many memorable moments in the album in my opinion. Strong songs but nothing out of the ball park.
Even though Fates is the opener, I think FW might pull off a better show than QR in this run they are doing together.
I'm excited to be seeing QR again, my first time with the new lineup since new material has been out, excited about the new album and all that.
That said, Fates Warning is still touring behind a legitimate album of the year. Theories of Flight is not "good for current Fates" or "good for an old band", it's flat out amazing by any calculation. And they've now been firing on all cylinders live for years. I would be disappointed in Fates Warning if they DIDN'T upstage Queensryche.
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A buddy of mine noticed something. He says listen to the 1:40 mark in Dream Theater's "Home," and then listen to the intro of "Light Years" by Frankenryche. Notice something?
:rollin
That's pretty similar. Eerily similar.
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A buddy of mine noticed something. He says listen to the 1:40 mark in Dream Theater's "Home," and then listen to the intro of "Light Years" by Frankenryche. Notice something?
:rollin
That's pretty similar. Eerily similar.
Yeah I noticed that.
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Anyone know whether the deluxe is available now in the U.S.? I see it on Amazon as an import with a 3/8 release date.
I don't think so. Century Media's U.S. website didn't even sell it. I ordered mine from CMDistro's worldwide site, but had I ordered it from Amazon.co.uk, I would have saved about $7. The Amazon UK site was still cheaper than buying it as an import from the Amazon U.S. site...
The deluxe version is on Amazon.ca (Canada) for $28Cdn and is in stock. Strange that the US Amazon site doesn’t have it in stock until next week.
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there are moments when this album is really good and others where it just doesn't do much.
highlights for me are Dark Reverie, Bent, the ending of Launder the Conscience, and Portrait.
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In an interview last week, Michael Wilton stated they were making another music video, but I can't recall for what song. Does anyone remember? Personally, I think that Light Years would be the best choice for a single.
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The tour starts here tonight in Orlando. I'll be catching the show, and I hope Latorre is good live.
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Got this in the mail last night, and just heard it for the first time today.
I went in completely blank. (I think I may have heard one of the singles when they first came out, but I had no memory of it)
I have to say that I'm REALLY impressed. I don't see how anyone can dispute that, at the very least, they are improving with every release. As people have pointed out, this isn't really the "Queensryche" we know. It's a different animal. But if were another band, people would say "they are trying too hard to sound like Queensryche".
As much as I really liked the music on the self titled, and then really enjoyed Condition Human even more, both of those albums had some obvious filler tracks, and their attempt at a love song fell flat. But as I spun this album twice today, I couldn't find a single song in all 10 tracks that I wasn't enjoying. Bent is my early favorite.
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In an interview last week, Michael Wilton stated they were making another music video, but I can't recall for what song. Does anyone remember? Personally, I think that Light Years would be the best choice for a single.
They already played Light Years live, which makes it a likely candidate, but I say this without having heard the album yet.
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I managed to find the 2cd limited box set thingy in store on the weekend. Picked it up, haven't listened to it yet.
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This is my review of the new album:
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/album-reviews/queensryche-the-verdict/
They actually quoted my review in an ad for The Verdict - check out the 20 second mark here: https://youtu.be/-iySe1HWkz4
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So here's my meandering rambling for the day:
note: SPOILERS BELOW
Opening night of tour - Queensryche plays 13 songs...
Blood of the Levant
I Am I
NM 156
Man the Machine
Condition Human
Queen of the Reich
Selfish Lives
Open Road
Light Years
--
Eyes of a Stranger
Silent Lucidity
Jet City Woman
Empire
On an up note (HERE IS SOME POSITIVE COMMENTARY), 6 of the 13 are from the La Torre era. That's the way it should have been even on the last tour, so that's good. Always smart supporting a new record. Nice to see Open Road in there
But, (yup, here it comes) - a headliner playing 70 minutes is absolutely ridiculous. Is this what we've come to? This is even less than the last tour. :lol Way to go, Frankenryche. Way to do things half-assed. Give the fans a little of what they want, then shortchange them with how long you actually play.
For those sticking around for Queensryche on this tour (thank God I'll be long gone by the time they hit the stage), here's hoping the set gets longer. Because that is pathetic.
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One thing I have noticed since LaTorre took over seven years ago is how short the sets became. Aside from his official debut, which was I think a two-hour show (that he ran out of steam on), the band has consistently been around 85 minutes or less. On Condition Human, they trended around 14-15 songs (maybe 80 minutes, sometimes 75), and now...13 songs, with one, Condition Human, being the size of two.
I wonder what the reason is. 🤔
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Style of singing, age. It's a smart move to preserve is voice.
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It reminds me of Spock's Beard shortening their set down to 90 minutes last two times I saw it. That's just way too short for me, but hopefully the ticket price justifies the length of the set.
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I’m disappointed with the length of that set. But I absolutely love the actual set list!!!
EDIT - if they only just added Bent, it would stretch the set an extra 6 minutes, and inject one of the best new songs into the set.
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I really like Light years
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I was at the Orlando show also and was shocked when they walked off the stage 55 minutes after taking it. Even though I liked them playing the newer era songs they didnt choose songs that kept the crowd into it. during Condition Human I saw alot of people checking out their phone. I did enjoy their lighting, etc though. pretty cool setup
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I really like Light years
Probably my favourite track so far.
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I'm trying to avoid spoilers, so I scrolled past that setlist post. But do I have it right that they're only playing 55 minutes? That seems absurd. And, without any song spoilers, how long does Fates Warning play? Is the show even two hours between the two bands? I guess it can't be.
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I'm trying to avoid spoilers, so I scrolled past that setlist post. But do I have it right that they're only playing 55 minutes? That seems absurd. And, without any song spoilers, how long does Fates Warning play? Is the show even two hours between the two bands? I guess it can't be.
There has been some talk in a facebook group about the fact that casinos specifically book the band for an exact set length of 70 minutes and no more. A lot of defensive posturing from fans that are salivating over the newer songs being in the set, but mainly oblivious to the fact that they're paying $40-$50 per ticket and being shortchanged by the band.
I'm waiting to see what they do with the set length once they hit regular clubs. I expect it to bounce up to 15 songs, which was their average for the last few years. Even then, that's a very minimal amount of songs.
One fan pretty much summed it up as "They have 30 years of music, and this is all that they're going to play?"
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I'm trying to avoid spoilers, so I scrolled past that setlist post. But do I have it right that they're only playing 55 minutes? That seems absurd. And, without any song spoilers, how long does Fates Warning play? Is the show even two hours between the two bands? I guess it can't be.
I made a playlist on my iPod featuring both Fates and Ryche's setlist from the opening night. Based on mostly the original studio versions (I used a few live versions in the QR side of the playlist), the answer is NO (though when you account for things like some stage banter, any downtime between songs, and the encore break, both bands will probably account for a little over two hours on stage.
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I'm trying to avoid spoilers, so I scrolled past that setlist post. But do I have it right that they're only playing 55 minutes? That seems absurd. And, without any song spoilers, how long does Fates Warning play? Is the show even two hours between the two bands? I guess it can't be.
There has been some talk in a facebook group about the fact that casinos specifically book the band for an exact set length of 70 minutes and no more. A lot of defensive posturing from fans that are salivating over the newer songs being in the set, but mainly oblivious to the fact that they're paying $40-$50 per ticket and being shortchanged by the band.
I'm waiting to see what they do with the set length once they hit regular clubs. I expect it to bounce up to 15 songs, which was their average for the last few years. Even then, that's a very minimal amount of songs.
One fan pretty much summed it up as "They have 30 years of music, and this is all that they're going to play?"
The first two nights of the tour proper started this weekend. Neither were casino gigs. The second show at 12 songs was shorter than the first at 13. So They have started to hit the clubs and aren't expanding the set length at all. I have the misfortune of seeing two of the three shows with a third band on the bill, so I am under no expectation that they will play longer and who knows, they could play an even shorter set at this point. Not happy. AT ALL. Especially since I actually like the new album. The only saving grace this week is I get one of the Fates Warning one-off headlining shows with one of my favorite local bands playing support.
CORRECTION - Looks like someone corrected night two of the setlist. Nothing changed from night one. So it looks like 13 is the magic number.
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Wow, that's pretty sad. I think someone needs to shake them. I mean really - they played about 90 minutes when they co-headlined with Dream Theater. Now they're the actual headliner, so ought to play at least 91. :P
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Wow, that's pretty sad. I think someone needs to shake them. I mean really - they played about 90 minutes when they co-headlined with Dream Theater. Now they're the actual headliner, so ought to play at least 91. :P
I have seen the band with TLT headline in a non-festival capacity at least six times, maybe seven, and maybe once did they breach the 90-minute mark. Most of the time it hovered around 80-85 minutes (and that includes an encore break). They used to be an automatic purchase. Nowadays, it depends on who is opening. With Fates Warning on this bill, I gave in and picked up tix to two shows. Hindsight being 20/20, I probably would have passed on one of them, especially since I get a FW headlining show in between the two Ryche shows I am attending.
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Not paying them for such a short set. Sorry. And, as Grapp said, you can't blame it on the casinos because the shows so far were not casino shows (and besides, I have seen casino shows recently that were much longer, including DT on The Astonishing tour where they played close to 3 hours).
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I am. Seeing them this upcoming Sunday.
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Not paying them for such a short set. Sorry. And, as Grapp said, you can't blame it on the casinos because the shows so far were not casino shows (and besides, I have seen casino shows recently that were much longer, including DT on The Astonishing tour where they played close to 3 hours).
To be fair, casinos do restrict stage time. My guess is that Dream Theater negotiated that specifically because of the nature of the show, and they really aren't a casino act.
But Frankenryche should be ashamed of itself. There is absolutely no reason the band should be under 90 minutes, at a minimum, outside of casino gigs. Oh wait, is that "negative rhetoric" again. I'm sorry if the truth hurts. Deal with it. Put your big boy pants on. (Not addressing you, bosk.) :lol
I just don't know why people continue to support this ridiculousness. Sure, the album is good. But is it really Queensryche without three of five original members, and the two primary original songwriters? You've lost the heart, soul, and backbone of the band. All that remains are the balls (Wilton), and blood (Ed). I get that bands change, and you gotta do what you gotta do. But for every good thing this band does (for example, the new album), they do two bad things (unforgivable short setlist, telling people who got screwed over by Pledge to take it up with their credit card companies). They just continually shoot themselves in the foot at every turn. And then expect people to be happy with it. And some fans just lap it up.
Frankenryche needs a mascot now. A big Frankenstein covered in try-ryche tattoos. Have it stand 10 feet tall, and walk around the stage falling down continually. At the end of their 70 minutes on stage, they can just sever its head, ala Alice Cooper. :lol
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It should also be noted that Dream Theater played alone on the Astonishing tour while Queensryche has two acts along for this run.
Astonishing tour featured 2 hours and 10 minutes of music. Queensryche tour features about 2 hours and 35 minutes of music. Sure, that's not all Queensrche, but given they have two turnovers in addition to that they are still utilizing venues for a much longer period of time than Dream Theater did. And unfortunately Queensryche just isn't in a financial position to do headlining tours anymore. In an ideal world the opener (I can't honestly remember to care who it is) wouldn't be there, saving 30 minutes of play time to give to Queensryche, and a setup meaning 15 minutes to give to Fates Warning. That said they're probably shelling out about $500 a show to open, and that's money Queensryche needs to make the tour doable.
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Yeah, but... I have no problem with them having an opening act. They could still play for 20-30 more minutes
Some tours have 3 touring opening bands. If the venues (non casino venues) are truly preventing them from playing longer so be it, but I certainly have my doubts about that.
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It should also be noted that Dream Theater played alone on the Astonishing tour while Queensryche has two acts along for this run.
Astonishing tour featured 2 hours and 10 minutes of music. Queensryche tour features about 2 hours and 35 minutes of music. Sure, that's not all Queensrche, but given they have two turnovers in addition to that they are still utilizing venues for a much longer period of time than Dream Theater did. And unfortunately Queensryche just isn't in a financial position to do headlining tours anymore. In an ideal world the opener (I can't honestly remember to care who it is) wouldn't be there, saving 30 minutes of play time to give to Queensryche, and a setup meaning 15 minutes to give to Fates Warning. That said they're probably shelling out about $500 a show to open, and that's money Queensryche needs to make the tour doable.
Only three shows have two support acts, Nick (Baltimore, NYC, and one in Mass, I believe, have The Cringe in addition to Fates) unless the venues are adding their own local support to the national tour of QR and FW.
I made a playlist on my iPod using the setlists as posted on setlist.fm on the opening night. Fates (combining Falling and Falling Further) came in a 48min. Queensryche, using a live version of Eyes (from the Silent Lucidity CD single which has Anarchy-Xtra attached to it) and the live version of QotR from the first TLT-fronted release, clocked in at just under 65 minutes. Two bands playing LESS THAN 2 HOURS of music.
And the number of opening acts is irrelevant if the headliner wants it to be. I have seen The Cure three times. All three times with an opening act. The shortest headlining set I have seen that band play is 2:40. I am going to see Y&T tonight. One opener. They usually play a 2 hour main set (around 20 songs) and then an encore. Opening night of this tour featured a 20-song set and a 2-song encore.
Simply put, Queensryche is doing the bare minimum and the hardcore fans, instead of being pissed at being short-changed, are eating it up because the band is finally supporting new material and has made some changes to the older tracks. They are making excuses...
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Oh, I thought the opener was for the entire tour. In that case my bad, and screw that short ass set. :lol
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Sometimes, for low-selling shows, the venue adds an act. That doesn't take away from the time QR can play. Generally, unless there is a curfew, a headliner can play for MUCH longer than QR's current 70 minutes.
Simply put, Queensryche is doing the bare minimum and the hardcore fans, instead of being pissed at being short-changed, are eating it up because the band is finally supporting new material and has made some changes to the older tracks. They are making excuses...
Bingo.
Oh, I thought the opener was for the entire tour. In that case my bad, and screw that short ass set. :lol
:rollin
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Queensryche just posted a photograph from a recent show on their Facebook. Maybe if enough of us comment on the ridiculously short set, a couple songs will be added. That's probably wishful thinking though.
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Sometimes, for low-selling shows, the venue adds an act. That doesn't take away from the time QR can play. Generally, unless there is a curfew, a headliner can play for MUCH longer than QR's current 70 minutes.
Simply put, Queensryche is doing the bare minimum and the hardcore fans, instead of being pissed at being short-changed, are eating it up because the band is finally supporting new material and has made some changes to the older tracks. They are making excuses...
Bingo.
Well, I suppose the hardcore fans have to choose their battles. :P There are bands I'd go see, short set or not. I'm going because of Fates Warning, and 45 minutes seems like an average set length for opening bands so I can't complain. If I was a diehard QR fan who'd been clamoring for certain songs and then they played the songs, I'd be irritated by the short set, but happy to see the songs I wanted to see.
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Not paying them for such a short set. Sorry. And, as Grapp said, you can't blame it on the casinos because the shows so far were not casino shows (and besides, I have seen casino shows recently that were much longer, including DT on The Astonishing tour where they played close to 3 hours).
To be fair, casinos do restrict stage time. My guess is that Dream Theater negotiated that specifically because of the nature of the show, and they really aren't a casino act.
Oh, sure. I'm not saying they don't restrict at all. But a casino is not going to restrict a headliner to under 70 minutes, as someone suggested farther up. That was my only point. You can't blame a casino for QR only playing 13 songs any way you slice it. That is entirely on the band.
I am going to see Y&T tonight. One opener.
Please report back. :caffeine:
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Well, I suppose the hardcore fans have to choose their battles. :P There are bands I'd go see, short set or not. I'm going because of Fates Warning, and 45 minutes seems like an average set length for opening bands so I can't complain. If I was a diehard QR fan who'd been clamoring for certain songs and then they played the songs, I'd be irritated by the short set, but happy to see the songs I wanted to see.
Thank God I am not a fan of Frankenryche any longer. I just observe for the entertainment :corn
I'm going strictly to see Fates Warning, and will be bolting immediately after they are done.
But a casino is not going to restrict a headliner to under 70 minutes, as someone suggested farther up. That was my only point. You can't blame a casino for QR only playing 13 songs any way you slice it. That is entirely on the band.
Don't be so sure. I remember being in Vegas on October 29 and October 30, 1999 for the second and third shows of the Q2k tour. On the first night, it was a short set (18 songs -- imagine that, 20 years ago, that was considered ridiculously short). There was almost a riot (no joke) because tickets were 75 bucks to the show (which at the time was expensive), and people were IRATE that the band played for less than 90 minutes. The next night, they played 24 songs and a full two hours, thankfully. But the buzz around the venue that night was that the Hard Rock put a hard limit on how long the band performed the first night, and after getting the reaction that they saw, lifted the cap the second night, and QR played everything it had rehearsed to "make up" for the shortened first night.
Security told us all that it was the venue that restricted the time the band was on stage the first night. So, casinos can and will restrict how long a band plays. At least according to casino security 20 years ago. Damn I'm getting old.
But 12 or 13 songs and 70 minutes, in a club, as a headliner, for a band that has been around for 38 years - shameful. No other way to describe it.
p.s. Oh wait, that's "negative rhetoric" again from this "fella." Funny how truth that isn't convenient for someone is labeled "negative," but when it works in that same person's favor, then they are all for honesty. ::) :lol
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I remember seeing Sonata Arctica for the first time in 2010, and they only played an 80-minute (I think) set with 12 songs, but at least they had guitar and keyboard solo spots and a We Will Rock You sing-along as an extra. I was only 15 back then and hadn't been to more than a handful of gigs yet, but even then I thought it was a bit short, so don't even get me started on 70 minutes :lol
*show spoilers ahead*
Oh well, at least Todd is playing some extra drums on I Am I, which is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNmq61cblU&t=3m11s
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Damn...only 70 min. How cheap. At least 90 min. Would be alright. But they're basically playing an opening set as a headlining set. Which is odd.
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I'm still digesting the album, but the shorter tracks like Inner unrest and Light years are really fun to rock out to. Those are some catchy choruses. I also think Bent and Launder the conscience had very strong outros. There were plenty of neat guitar harmonies throughout the album as well. It would be great if the album grew on me even more.
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Oh well, at least Todd is playing some extra drums on I Am I, which is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNmq61cblU&t=3m11s
Um, that's not Todd on drums.
But, yeah, nice little modifications with the drum intro and little extension before the solo. It does concern me somewhat that Todd is really struggling on what is a relatively easy song (for QR). But at least he doesn't lip sync the end like Tate used to.
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Oh well, at least Todd is playing some extra drums on I Am I, which is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNmq61cblU&t=3m11s
Um, that's not Todd on drums.
But, yeah, nice little modifications with the drum intro and little extension before the solo. It does concern me somewhat that Todd is really struggling on what is a relatively easy song (for QR). But at least he doesn't lip sync the end like Tate used to.
It wasn't written for La Torre's voice. He's having to sing lower, which generally shouldn't be a big deal, but because his voice is thinner, it doesn't really fill it out. Not his fault at all. Just how the song is. That's why, to my ear, he always sounds "off" on the stuff from Empire-PL. His voice doesn't have that richness Tate's does. He does not sound bad at all, and I don't hear him struggling, except a little bit on the chorus. But that's where that richness comes in.
And I thought the complain you had with Tate was on "Damaged," that note going into the solo that he always lipsynched live?
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Oh well, at least Todd is playing some extra drums on I Am I, which is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNmq61cblU&t=3m11s
Um, that's not Todd on drums.
The angle of the video sucks, but around 5:50 you can see him playing what looks like either a small kit or a bunch of toms.
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And I thought the complain you had with Tate was on "Damaged," that note going into the solo that he always lipsynched live?
No, the end of I Am I where the song has the sampling at the end with the "machine gun" effect, and Tate would always lip sync that and act like he was singing it.
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And I thought the complain you had with Tate was on "Damaged," that note going into the solo that he always lipsynched live?
No, the end of I Am I where the song has the sampling at the end with the "machine gun" effect, and Tate would always lip sync that and act like he was singing it.
:tup
Senior moment. LOL.
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Oh well, at least Todd is playing some extra drums on I Am I, which is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNmq61cblU&t=3m11s
I watched some more of this vid and "Man the Machine" didn't sound very crisp, and once again Todd struggles to sing the new songs live.
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Not paying them for such a short set. Sorry. And, as Grapp said, you can't blame it on the casinos because the shows so far were not casino shows (and besides, I have seen casino shows recently that were much longer, including DT on The Astonishing tour where they played close to 3 hours).
70 minute set, QR just doesn't care anymore, it seems like that they haven't cared about being a band since the early 90's.
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But, yeah, nice little modifications with the drum intro and little extension before the solo. It does concern me somewhat that Todd is really struggling on what is a relatively easy song (for QR). But at least he doesn't lip sync the end like Tate used to.
Todd continues to struggle on his version of what an old chorus leader called the "dangerous Ds" regarding sopranos and QR's material doesn't let the vocalist skip out the notes that're in that technically uncomfortable area.
Tate was an exceptional singing talent. Todd's a bit of a stunt vocalist.
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I am a completely casual QR fan (not very familiarized with their discography except OM and Empire), but i like the new album. Solid effort.
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Tate was an exceptional singing talent.
Absolutely. As much disdain as I have for the things he has done, I cannot even articulate how much respect I have for his singing talent and ability to go out and deliver on some of the most difficult material imaginable night in and night out on tours.
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I think, one reason I cant really get into the new Queensryche, is due to Todd not having that nice soft, warm, low voice Geoff had. It's why I love Geoffs vocals. You notice it in Empire and at times Silent Lucidity.
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I think, one reason I cant really get into the new Queensryche, is due to Todd not having that nice soft, warm, low voice Geoff had. It's why I love Geoffs vocals. You notice it in Empire and at times Silent Lucidity.
Yep. That's what I've been saying. And its not Todd's fault, its just not the way his voice is. He's fine on the EP-Rage, but starting with the Mindcrime stuff, and certainly with Empire and PL, his voice just doesn't have that depth and richness that Tate's has. That's not a knock at all on Todd, its just his voice.
Queensryche was very much a sum of its parts. Chris has a great knack for killer melodies (both for vocals and the way he constructed guitar solos), chord progressions, and arrangement. Geoff had such an incredible voice that has power, depth, range (at one time), and just this commanding presence. Scott had this undeniable Rush-inspired groove and a sound all his own. MIchael has an extremely distinct style of the way he writes solos and riffs, and Ed has a bass sound that really compliments it all that is severely underrated, plus great backing vocals to that meshed with DeGarmo and Tate.
You take away a bunch of those pieces, and its just. not. the. same. And that's OK, but that's not for me. People may take offense when I call it "Frankenryche." But that's the honest truth. What was Queensryche from 1981-1997 has slowly been bastardized and killed. And they zap it each year to come alive, take some new directions, and make money off of it. And I get it -- people need to make a living and survive. I totally get it. But at some point when does the band become a different band, except in name?
Retrospectively, they really did become a different band when Chris left. He was too integral to everything that they did creatively. But they soldiered on, and after a brief stint with Kelly, the reunion just didn't pan out. So they went with Tateryche after that, allowing Tate to steer the direction and involve outside writers. Then once they punted Tate, the music got better, and now predictably, the music is still really good, but without Scott, its just totally a different vibe. Its Queensryche in name, and its a solid band with solid new music. But its not Queensryche in soul. And they all know it. But they have no recourse but to carry on.
I don't blame them for that. But man, it really sounds nothing like what made them distinct in the first place. The Verdict is a really good album. But it has very little in common with classic Queensryche, other than Wilton's signature solo style, and a few melodic flourishes here and there. Otherwise, its just a prog metal band stretching its new creativity.
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I'm listening to The Verdict now, and so far it's not bad. Not at all the old style everyone wants, but still good for what they are now. I'm sure i'll still enjoy the show. Even more so now based on the set. Because It's what they are now.
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I'm a huge fan of the Todd era of Queensryche. Before Todd, I was just a very very casual listener. But since Todd, the band is just different, and for me, in a great way.
The new album is good, but as of right now, after 5 listens, it's my least fav of the Todd albums, which is funny because everyone seems to think it's the best. I tend to think that's what most people do anyways after a huge lineup change. People finally get into the new lineup after 3-4 albums and say that's their new favourite (This is happening like crazy with Dream Theater and DOT).
Condition Human was perfect, a perfect album. The Verdict is very good. And the drumming is fantastic, but I'm no drummer, so I'll leave the comparisons to others, but it works for me. Tons of fills and power, just great drumming. I just wish that Wilton progressed a bit more with his solos.
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... I don't blame them for that. But man, it really sounds nothing like what made them distinct in the first place. The Verdict is a really good album. But it has very little in common with classic Queensryche, other than Wilton's signature solo style, and a few melodic flourishes here and there. Otherwise, its just a prog metal band stretching its new creativity.
This is the "problem" with them having the Queensr˙che name. They're damned if they just play all the old songs, and make albums that sound like the old stuff; and they're damned if they don't - losing some of the older stuff, and making records that have their own style and sound.
It must be tough constantly having to cater to 1 of 2 (or 3) groups of people, who all want you to do separate things.
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Finally listened to the album on Spotify, and I have to say Light Years, Inside Out and Portrait sound really good, especially the latter, which has a bit of a Promised Land vibe :tup On the other hand, Propaganda Fashion is a bit annoying.
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On the other hand, Propaganda Fashion is a bit annoying.
Yeah that’s the only song on the album I don’t like.
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Propoganda Fashion, and the start of Inner Unrest, are good examples of the kind of clumsy lyrics I've complained about LaTorre writing in the past.
Well, more fool me then. Now I've got the CD through it turns out Propoganda Fashion is entirely an Edbass song :o
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I'll never not miss DeGarmo's contribution to the overall end product of a QR album but I continue to be happy to get QR with Wilton's contribution back to where it should be.
This. As much as I've drifted away from what the current band is doing now, its nice to see Wilton's imprint again for sure. But I think this point has some merit:
I just wish that Wilton progressed a bit more with his solos.
That really nailed it. Michael has a very distinct solo style that hasn't really evolved too much over the years. They are great, and you know Whip when you hear him. And its always good to hear Whip rip one off. But I found myself more preferring the slower kind of moodier solo like he added to "The Great Divide" when they played that live. Because it was a little different from what he usually does (although that was 16 years ago). Wilton's solos are always killer, they just don't really deviate much from what he usually does. At least not to my ear.
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Looks like their last show consisted of 15 songs and so we're heading in the right direction :)
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I'm on my third spin now. I keep getting more impressed by this album.
Surprised to see the hate for Propaganda Fashion. That chorus is one of the catchiest of the TLT era.
"Tonight your freedom DIIIIIIEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS"
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Propaganda Fashion didn't do much for me on the first couple of spins but now I can't get enough of it :metal There were a few songs on Condition Human that I never cared for--Selfish Lives, Liquid Remedy, All There Was--but I can honestly say that I enjoy every second of The Verdict.
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So I have heard The Verdict a few times in my car. That means I don't know any of the names, and pretty much only know them by number.
So far, my Top 3 are #'s 1,7&9.
So:
Blood Of The Levent
Bent
Launder The Conscience
I must say that Todd's drumming is :metal :metal :metal
And holy shit, does he sound like Geoff Tate on this.
Stylewise, to me, it sits between Mindcrime and Empire.
I think this album is excellent.
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Todd was great last night. Nice set too. I like the visuals they had for the stage.
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... I don't blame them for that. But man, it really sounds nothing like what made them distinct in the first place. The Verdict is a really good album. But it has very little in common with classic Queensryche, other than Wilton's signature solo style, and a few melodic flourishes here and there. Otherwise, its just a prog metal band stretching its new creativity.
This is the "problem" with them having the Queensr˙che name. They're damned if they just play all the old songs, and make albums that sound like the old stuff; and they're damned if they don't - losing some of the older stuff, and making records that have their own style and sound.
It must be tough constantly having to cater to 1 of 2 (or 3) groups of people, who all want you to do separate things.
It really depends on the creative direction of the band as major members change. I like to use Helloween as an example. One of the things that always stands out is how well the Kiske era and the Deris era compliment each other. I have had playlists that feature both eras and it is not a blunt contrast. Seeing the Pumpkins United tour solidified my opinion that the two eras really do fit seamlessly. But even listening to Deris era live albums, he does justice to the Kiske era. Deris has his own style and the current version of Helloween has its own voice, but it, to me anyway, is still Helloween.
I don't think I ever felt that way about Queensryche under TLT. Yes, one of his shows on the Return to History tour is in my top 5 all-time Queensryche shows. But I really don't think his voice is really suited for much of the back catalog post Warning with few exceptions (I really thought I Am I worked well with his vocals). Having just saw the band twice last week (Baltimore and NYC), I found myself enjoying a lot more the music from the TLT-fronted albums, and I would not mind at all if they were playing 75% of their set from his time in the band. With The Verdict, they really found their own voice as a band and it is not classic Queensryche the way Helloween continues to hold a connection to in my opinion. The more I listen to The Verdict, which I do believe is a solid album, the more I am of the opinion that they should have let the Queensryche name retire. Hold on to it from a legal perspective so Tate can't use it, but at the same time don't use either. I think you make a good point, Setzer, that by using that name, it carries certain expectations and when you try to be all things to everyone, you usually end up failing on all fronts. Kudos for them really not trying to be classic Queensryche on this album (a net positive I think comes in part from the lack of SRock providing any input at all). I realize it is much too late to rebrand the musical collective, but they should have stuck with Rising West or come up with some other name because much of that old stuff TLT simply can't do enough justice to and a name change would have changed the expectations.
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Looks like their last show consisted of 15 songs and so we're heading in the right direction :)
Starting with Baltimore, they bumped up to 15 songs. Based on the commentary on the official FB page that "the band" is posting, it is only an 80-90 minute show, and the short show is being blamed on venues and curfew, which is total BS. If Queensryche wanted to be on stage for two hours, the tour would be structured as such. They simply are looking for the bare minimum to keep fans from complaining, as song #14 (SiD) and #15 (Take Hold) started appearing as many were reacting loudly to the short 13-song set that opened the tour for the first two nights (three if you count the casino show before the Monsters of Rock cruise that they were a part of).
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Here's the thing. To piggyback on what SW and Setzer are saying, Queensryche has become a much different band in comparison to the expectation that the name carries. And it should, as 3/5 of the original group, including 2/3 of the songwriting team, is different. And only the minor third of that original songwriting team remains. It IS different, and it SHOULD be. I think The Verdict is a really good album, and the best one with Todd La Torre. Other than Wilton's signature solo style, and some fills La Torre borrowed from Scott on drums, it sounds very little like Queensryche's past, and they've really gone their own direction. And as a former fan of theirs, I applaud them for it. They SHOULD be proud of what they accomplished.
The problem, however, is that they absolutely NEED the name, and NEED to play the classic QR material in order to make ends meet. They know it, promoters know it, fans know it. They would have left the Queensryche name alone in 2012 had promoters wanted them as Rising West, or under another name. They didn't, and that made them push to take the Queensryche name, which they ultimately did. That's fact.
From a stamina perspective, while I personally (and most of us in general) can't obviously sing the way La Torre does, he clearly doesn't have the stamina to give people a show that many expected from the Queensryche name -- a big headline set. The fans will kiss ass and defend him, and defend the band. Whatever. The band knows, and TLT knows he can't deliver a 110-120 minute set consistently. And while I am sure there are some business reasons to the 85-90 minute (and sometimes shorter) headline set, there has only been ONE time in the TLT era that they've played for two hours. And that was the very first "official" QR gig with TLT as vocalist. And he ran out of steam and faltered by the end. They've never even gotten close to 2 hours ever again again. The facts don't lie. And my guess is, Queensryche never will deliver two hours on a regular basis ever again -- not with La Torre. I'll gladly eat my words if he proves me wrong and apologize if he does a whole tour with two-hour sets. But I'd bet a lot of cash on it that they won't. Because La Torre can't.
And as I said way too many times in the past, he does NOT sound good (to my ears) on anything starting with Mindcrime (some of it he sounds good, other parts not so much), but especially the Empire and PL material. And that material, particularly Mindcrime and Empire, is what people have come to see. Particularly casino gigs. And that's not a knock on TLT's voice. Its just naturally thinner than Tate's, and those songs were written for a deeper, more commanding voice. He tries, he pushes his larynx down to make things sound deeper (which is not quite what you want to do), but that's just not his voice. He does the best job he can do with material not written for him.
And they try to straddle the line with the fan base they are catering to. They try to please everyone by going out there and doing a balance of headline tours, casino gigs and other greatest hits gigs as openers, and then a metal festival here and there. Then a hair metal combination once in awhile. They are trying to touch all the bases. I get it. I get the business reasons why. I get them trying to also satisfy everyone. The more satisfied your customer base is, even if they aren't fully satisfied, the more likely it is they will still come to a show and buy some merch. But the bottom line is, they trot themselves out there as "Queensryche" because they own the name, and technically, and legally, they ARE Queensryche. But there comes a point where you take away so many of the parts that made the band distinct in the first place, and it becomes simply a shell of what it once was. The term "Frankenryche" offends some. Too bad. It fits.
So, when it comes to evaluating this band on its own merits, I think they are a solid band, with some solid material (2013 self-titled, Condition Human, The Verdict) that they should be proud of and emphasize playing that material. But if you hold this band, as currently constituted, and compare it with what it was with the original lineup of Queensryche...there's really no comparison. Two different bands entirely.
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The term "Frankenryche" offends some. Too bad. It fits.
This is silly, even if you have a vendetta with the band / La Torre.
By this logic, the moment Chris left in 1998, the band became Frankenryche.
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All I know is that if I went into a coma in 1992 and woke up on The Verdict’s release day, I wouldn’t even know it wasn’t Tate.
Sure the vocals lack the depth of Tate and the guitars lack the grace of Degarmo.
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The term "Frankenryche" offends some. Too bad. It fits.
This is silly, even if you have a vendetta with the band / La Torre.
By this logic, the moment Chris left in 1998, the band became Frankenryche.
I don't have a vendetta with the band or La Torre. Don't assume stuff and insinuate something because of what you read from trolls and other BS. I don't like La Torre, and yes, we have history, sure (and not the history the troll board you frequent talks about and follows me around the Internet about - I closed BdR TWO YEARS AGO, but still get followed around by trolls - its laughable, and they are psychotic). But I can be objective, and I am. And anyone who knows me, knows I am. I say it how I see it, my own personal issues aside. And this is how I see it.
As for "Frankenryche" applying when Chris left in 1997, maybe. You can make that argument for sure, given his importance to the band's sound. But that was one part. Now the band is down THREE parts. And that makes a major difference. For example, its like losing a limb. You lose your left arm, and have a prosthetic, that's one thing. But Queensryche has lost its head, its torso, and its arms. You're telling me calling it "Frankenryche" is inaccurate? ::)
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All I know is that if I went into a coma in 1992 and woke up on The Verdict’s release day, I wouldn’t even know it wasn’t Tate.
Sure the vocals lack the depth of Tate and the guitars lack the grace of Degarmo.
You admit the latter, but then still say the former? ???
Opinions, and all that, but those two sentences seem to contradict one another, T.
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I’m taking into account the depreciation of the voice.
In other words, using my 27 year coma scenario, if you told me it was Tate, I’d believe you.
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I’m taking into account the depreciation of the voice.
In other words, using my 27 year coma scenario, if you told me it was Tate, I’d believe you.
Got ya. I disagree. Particularly on The Verdict. I think he sounds more like himself on this one. The self-titled, sure, that sounds very much like Tate. But I thought La Torre really imprinted himself well, vocally, on The Verdict. That was one of the high points for me -- I didn't get the feeling like he was trying to capture Tate. He was just being him. And that's why I liked it a lot.
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Samsara, you can probably confirm this or not. I suck at using the bilboard charts site.
Wikipedia is saying that The Verdict debuted at 110 on the US Bilboard top 200 vs. number 27 which was where Condition Unknown debuted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensr%C3%BFche_discography
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Samsara, you can probably confirm this or not. I suck at using the bilboard charts site.
Wikipedia is saying that The Verdict debuted at 110 on the US Bilboard top 200 vs. number 27 which was where Condition Unknown debuted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensr%C3%BFche_discography
I have no access to that kind of data. I don't remember where Condition Human debuted, but 27 seems about right. I remember it was a big drop off from the self-titled, which was...I think it was 14? I'd be pretty shocked if QR dropped from 27 to 110, however. If that's truly the case, that's a shame. Anyway, no, no idea on the chart debut. Sorry!
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2013 self-titled topped at 23, selling 13,659 copies in its first week of release in the United States.
CH followed at 27, selling 14,000 copies in its first week of release in the United States.
The Verdict is indeed listed at 110: https://billboard.com/charts/billboard-200 - sales haven't been published yet AFAIK.
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Apparently that means it charted lower than both Dedicated To Chaos and Frequency Unknown :|
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Didn't the PledgeMusic purchases count as US sales for Condition Human? Since the campaign failed due to PM going to shit this time around, they didn't have that advantage.
EDIT: #16 in the album sales chart: https://www.billboard.com/music/queensryche/chart-history/top-album-sales
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The term "Frankenryche" offends some. Too bad. It fits.
This is silly, even if you have a vendetta with the band / La Torre.
By this logic, the moment Chris left in 1998, the band became Frankenryche.
I'm on board with calling the albums that were virtually Tate solo albums Tateryche (I tend to include Q2k with that even though it was technically a band effort) where the rest of the band were maginalised in terms of songwriting, arrangements and overall sound of the albums.
Toddryche works for me for the most recent incarnation. Frankenryche just seems pejorative for a band back in form that sounds way more like classic QR on record than they had for years before they ditched Tate.
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Vocal Coach Reacts to Take Hold of the Flame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIHHrqzXAfs&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR17UuTEqPKCTjKvHHV3VWaXPCdIsNi2GzukIIYJddGbkeuVuVOY3bGmLdA
Pretty cool to hear a vocal coach break down classic Geoff Tate. and her reaction to Geoff's big high note on "children of the light" is awesome.
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Yeah, RVA is pretty entertaining to watch. I subscribe to her channel. I'll definitely check that out later.
Her reactions to Ghost Love Score and Pisces are pretty entertaining. If you want to watch some other ones that give good insight into vocal technique and translating what you are seeing/hearing some of your favorite vocalists doing, I would also recommend Beth Roars and VoiceHacks (Mary Z). Those are great channels as well.
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Propaganda Fashion – Did La Torre just say “mother fuckers” in a Queensryche song? Wow.
That was probably the least powerful utterance of that word I've ever heard. :lol
The Verdict is a really solid album. There was a couple of tracks I'm not too keen on at least yet, but nothing I'd actively dislike. Think I liked it more than Distance Over Time. I've grown quite fond of Man the Machine.
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those vids are good, but can often be way too praising.
I think my fav (cause it was just so honest) was this female vocal coach reviewing Queen at Live Aid and said she had to close her eyes because watching Freddie made him seem like he was preforming better (vocally) than he was. She was right. Dude was not sounding amazing, but his charisma just over shadowed it.
But yea, those can be really fun. Wish they got more critical. I can't take you seriously if you're critiquing a live Evanescence video and only giving it compliments.
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Unfortunately, The Verdict didn't really grow on me. I still think Man the machine was a brilliant single and truly a cool rocker, but none of the other songs is as great. There are good choruses, riffs and solos throughout, but not enough songs that stand out in their entirety. Even the album as a whole sounds like a bonus disc for Condition human with songs that weren't good enough for the album.
It's not a bad album, but it's average.
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Just saw QR in Baltimore and it was a really good show. I was pleasantly surprised by Fates. I never really liked their stuff but I enjoyed their set.
QR was excellent. The played 15 songs, which is pretty standard with other bands Ive seen, and had a nice mix of old and new stuff. Condition human was excellent and my favorite of the night. I've seen QR with Todd 3 times and this was his best performance I've seen. I also really enjoyed the light show and the multimedia screens.
I must say, I'm really enjoying this incarnation of QR. The Verdict has grown on me and is my favorite of the last 3 albums. I'm thankful the band is still around and it putting out music I still enjoy. I don't understand the negative nannies who call QR Frankenryche or complain about set list times. The length was pretty standard and there are many bands out there who only have 1 or 2 original members. Heck, there are some that have no original members. Doesn't DT also only have 2 original members?
Be thankful and enjoy.
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Even though I didn't love the album, I don't mind the line up changes. Bands change members and styles but keep their names all the time, it's nothing new.
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Just saw QR in Baltimore and it was a really good show. I was pleasantly surprised by Fates. I never really liked their stuff but I enjoyed their set.
QR was excellent. The played 15 songs, which is pretty standard with other bands Ive seen, and had a nice mix of old and new stuff. Condition human was excellent and my favorite of the night. I've seen QR with Todd 3 times and this was his best performance I've seen. I also really enjoyed the light show and the multimedia screens.
I must say, I'm really enjoying this incarnation of QR. The Verdict has grown on me and is my favorite of the last 3 albums. I'm thankful the band is still around and it putting out music I still enjoy. I don't understand the negative nannies who call QR Frankenryche or complain about set list times. The length was pretty standard and there are many bands out there who only have 1 or 2 original members. Heck, there are some that have no original members. Doesn't DT also only have 2 original members?
Be thankful and enjoy.
When Y&T two nights prior to Queensryche played the same Baltimore soundstage and offered up a 23-song, near 2.5 hour set which is typical of the four shows I have seen at that venue over the last five years, Queensryche's headlining set time becomes a major disappointment. The Neal Morse Band, same venue, with some stage production value, delivered a 2+hour set. Queensryche has no excuse not to, unless Todd simply does not have the stamina to pull it off.
As for the show itself, I was at the Baltimore show and it never felt like it gathered any momentum. It just kinda plodded along. I think part of it was the terrible sound mix that night. Fast forward to NYC two nights later, the show and the band felt more "on" and put on in my opinion a much stronger performance. It felt like it had more energy and it definitely sounded better. (Though I still think Fates ruled the night both times). I thought the material from The Verdict translated well live and I was left wanting more, especially after the NYC show. 85 minutes is not enough to do this catalog justice.
If Queensryche were charging $20 per ticket, I'd be more inclined to forgive a short set time. But when I paid an average of $43 a ticket between NYC and Baltimore, I am expecting a longer show. I am not just satisfied with them playing. And yes, I have the same complaint about Fates' headlining set on Friday, which clocked in at 90 minutes with a 16-song set. I would have been super excited if Queensryche used the Promised Land tour as a template with a longer than 2-hour set and playing across it the entire Verdict album. That would have been a killer show. But when they can't even play for 90 minutes considering the legacy and the size of the back catalog, it's an insult to their fans. The only way it will change is if people bitch (and if you follow the backlash on facebook, songs started getting added when people voiced their displeasure at the two opening nights' 75 minute sets). We as paying fans shouldn't be justifying them shortchanging us by simply being happy because they are playing, especially when their contemporaries in the prog world generally grace the stage for 2+ hours. I am pretty sure Dream Theater would get run out of town if they started playing 85 minutes sets when they are headlining their own tour. I don't understand why Queensryche fans are ok with being shortchanged.
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Tickets were not expensive, I'm old, I wanted to get home before 3 am. :lol
I'm ok with a 15 song setlist.
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Tickets were not expensive, I'm old, I wanted to get home before 3 am. :lol
:rollin
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I've seen a lot of bands that didn't play longer than 90 minutes, and heard of others that played even less. As long as the price for that isn't too high, I've normally got no problem with it.
But QR has played longer sets in the past and we're all spoiled by DT's and other prog acts longer sets, so we're disappointed by the length.
That said I would probably still go if they play somewhere near me and the price is reasonable.
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If you take the 16 unique songs they played across two sets during the Monsters of Rock cruise (assuming the setlists on setlist.fm are correct), which adds Guardian and Walk in the Shadows and keeps both Selfish Lives and Toxic Remedy in the set instead of swapping one out for the other, keep in NM 156 and SiD in the set, which were not played on the MoR cruise but are a part of the tour, that is 18 songs. Add two more from The Verdict (or one from that and one classic not played yet by this line-up, like Deliverance) and you have a rock-solid 20-song set. The only change I would make in this scenario is drop Guardian since it got aired during the last tour and pick a song from any of the three TLT albums that has not been played live. And if you swap Guardian with another Verdict song and fill slots 19 and 20 with one Verdict and one classic, you have 5 tracks from the new album, four from the first two TLT albums and 11 classics. Hard to complain about a set like that.
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I've seen a lot of bands that didn't play longer than 90 minutes, and heard of others that played even less. As long as the price for that isn't too high, I've normally got no problem with it.
But QR has played longer sets in the past and we're all spoiled by DT's and other prog acts longer sets, so we're disappointed by the length.
That said I would probably still go if they play somewhere near me and the price is reasonable.
It's all about the past for me. Prior to Todd joining the band, a two-hour, 20-ish song set was normal for the band. They always played a good chunk of new songs, plus a mix of older ones. After Todd joined, that immediately changed. It's easy to figure out the variable in that equation. It's sad to see people defending the band over this set, simply because they finally added new songs, or bumped it up from 13 to 15, as if that makes any difference. If my favorite band walked off stage after 70 minutes during a headlining set and I paid $40, I'd be so disappointed.
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I don't think I've ever been to a show that had a headline set that lasted two hours? Maybe Iron Maiden? Nowadays tour packages give a little more space to the opener, or there are several openers. 13 songs is obviously too short, but 15 is already much better and a step in the right direction imo. If Todd knows he isn't one of the 10% of frontmen who can deliver two hour shows consistently, that's not a knock on him - his voice will be judged very harshly as it is. As he gets a few more years as a touring vocalist (he started after 40, right?) under his belt, he might dare to lengthen the set once he knows what he's comfortable with, or he might not, as he's getting older along with the rest of the guys. If this is truly on him and not on the guys wanting to shake things up.
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I am pretty sure it is mostly on him that they are doing the shorter sets. They did much longer ones when they started with Todd, and as Samsara said, he was VERY inconsistent and struggled quite a bit.
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I am pretty sure it is mostly on him that they are doing the shorter sets. They did much longer ones when they started with Todd, and as Samsara said, he was VERY inconsistent and struggled quite a bit.
Good luck to anyone complaining. You can all go out and sing like Todd does and see if your voice holds up. No way in hell any of us could.
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I am pretty sure it is mostly on him that they are doing the shorter sets. They did much longer ones when they started with Todd, and as Samsara said, he was VERY inconsistent and struggled quite a bit.
Good luck to anyone complaining. You can all go out and sing like Todd does and see if your voice holds up. No way in hell any of us could.
I absolutely cannot stand this type of response. Yes, not all of us are singers and can do what Todd does. Massive respect to him for having that voice. I certainly couldn't do it, and hearing him sing those old songs in 2013 was completely awesome. But I'm not being paid to do it every night, am I? Continuing Education is a part of many professional careers, and I'm required by law to keep my licenses up to date by educating myself every year. I don't see why a singer shouldn't continually work to develop their voice, despite being successful already. You can only get better, right?
Todd is paid to be the singer in Queensryche. He's loved by fans for singing those songs, and based on the last few years, fans want to hear MORE songs every night. The band could easily satisfy fans by playing longer shows, making room for more older and newer songs. And now they're stuck with this set length - it is glaringly obvious that the sets started getting smaller AFTER Todd joined.
Todd himself claimed in an interview that he met with a vocal coach and the coach told him "hey, I have no advice for you, if your technique works for you, keep doing it." So I doubt Todd even thinks about working on his stamina, he believes he's just fine, and was "instructed" by someone that he was fine. After having been through a very contentious split with Geoff, the band probably doesn't want to rock the boat with Todd either by asking more of him each night.
It really says something when popular vocalists with more extreme vocal styles still work with vocal coaches to continually stay in shape and modify their technique to ensure that they can still deliver what is required of them. But for Todd to rest on his laurels and say "oh, a coach told me I don't need to do anything" and be the primary reason for holding his band back from playing longer shows? That's total lead-singer ego bullshit to me, and the losers in that situation are the fans that pay for a great show and only get 70-90 minutes from a headlining band.
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Also, if we go down the "You can't do it" route, everyone who never directed a movie shouldn't complain about movies.
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I hate your response and here's why. Look at any singer who gets up in age. Even the great Paul Stanley cannot hit the notes he used to. Rush added more instrumentals and detuned to help Geddy. This is a fact of life. Your vocal chords cannot do what you did in your youth. Add the fact that Geoff's style of singing and what Todd is continuing does massage damage to vocal chords.
Change your expectations. It's on you. The older singers get, the more they have to baby their vocal chords.
Also, if we go down the "You can't do it" route, everyone who never directed a movie shouldn't complain about movies.
You think you would be able to run like you did in your 20's in your 50's? Not even close. Even the great marathon runners know that. Why do music fans not understand this? It's not the art, it's the physicality.
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I hate your response and here's why. Look at any singer who gets up in age. Even the great Paul Stanley cannot hit the notes he used to. Rush added more instrumentals and detuned to help Geddy. This is a fact of life. Your vocal chords cannot do what you did in your youth. Add the fact that Geoff's style of singing and what Todd is continuing does massage damage to vocal chords.
Change your expectations. It's on you. The older singers get, the more they have to baby their vocal chords.
It's not on the fans. It's on the band to help Todd. When Todd joined, it was constant bragging from both him and the band about his vocal abilities and that they didn't have to tune down like they did with Geoff. That's what they've done since, and their sets keep getting shorter. This year is the shortest by far (the Condition Human tour averaged 15-18 songs). Last night, Fates Warning got more time, but QR still played the same 15 songs.
So rather than the band adjusting their music to help Todd (like you are demonstrating that Rush did, which allowed them to continue to play 2-3 hour shows for their fans), they're cutting short the show and shortchanging fans.
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I think this is a no-win situation for QR. If they play longer shows, Todd's voice will probably give out -> fans complain. If they play shorter sets -> fans complain. If they downtune -> fans complain that it doesn't sound like the originial. So what are they gonna do?
And just because a vocal teacher told Tood that he can't help him doesn't mean that he's not working on his stamina. I obviously don't knowif he does, but I think he would if he could. But then he's not the youngest anymore and I don't know if he can easily make his voice last two hours or more.
Todd is paid to be the singer in Queensryche.
So was Tate and the last years in QR he was terrible live and lazy in the studio. And even if he recently improved like some said, he can't bring what he was able to some 25 years ago.
I'm not saying that playing 80-90 minutes is cool, but I think there's a (imo) valid reason why they are doing it and therefore can live with it. If it was just out of lazyness on the other hand that would be a real shame.
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I am pretty sure it is mostly on him that they are doing the shorter sets. They did much longer ones when they started with Todd, and as Samsara said, he was VERY inconsistent and struggled quite a bit.
Good luck to anyone complaining. You can all go out and sing like Todd does and see if your voice holds up. No way in hell any of us could.
I absolutely cannot stand this type of response. Yes, not all of us are singers and can do what Todd does. Massive respect to him for having that voice. I certainly couldn't do it, and hearing him sing those old songs in 2013 was completely awesome. But I'm not being paid to do it every night, am I? Continuing Education is a part of many professional careers, and I'm required by law to keep my licenses up to date by educating myself every year. I don't see why a singer shouldn't continually work to develop their voice, despite being successful already. You can only get better, right?
Todd is paid to be the singer in Queensryche. He's loved by fans for singing those songs, and based on the last few years, fans want to hear MORE songs every night. The band could easily satisfy fans by playing longer shows, making room for more older and newer songs. And now they're stuck with this set length - it is glaringly obvious that the sets started getting smaller AFTER Todd joined.
This is exactly, 100% spot-on. The band is putting out a product. If that product is sub-par when compared to what similar bands are doing, the band has no one to blame but themselves if they do not work HARD to find a way to bring their product up to standards, and that is true of each and every member of the band.
Yes, people have individual limitations. When Rick Allen lost an arm, that severely limited him as a drummer, and by extension, limited Def Leppard as a band. He worked his butt off for years to find a work-around. He is still limited, and everybody knows it. But he got to a point where he could to a reasonable job, and the band could continue performing at a quality level with him, and a lot of the fans embraced it. Why? Because Rick and the band put in the work to still deliver a quality product, even if the new limitations may have caused the product to now be somewhat different.
If Todd's vocal limitations are causing the band to deliver sub-standard set time for the money being charged, that is 100% on Todd and the band to fix. If they choose not to, that's fine. But they have no one to blame if their ticket sales drop and they get criticized by their fans and lose fans as a result.
Todd himself claimed in an interview that he met with a vocal coach and the coach told him "hey, I have no advice for you, if your technique works for you, keep doing it." So I doubt Todd even thinks about working on his stamina, he believes he's just fine, and was "instructed" by someone that he was fine.
Wow. That is so irresponsible for a coach to say. I mean, it's one thing for a coach to say that that particular coach may not have anything more to offer a particular singer. It's another thing entirely to suggest that nothing more can be offered whatsoever to improve or at least maintain. (which assumes that Todd's version is accurate and not a misunderstanding of the coach maybe saying the latter and not the former) And it is even more irresponsible of Todd to take that at face value and not have the drive and self-motivation to seek a second, third, fourth, etc. opinion until he finds someone who can help him improve/maintain.
I hate your response and here's why. Look at any singer who gets up in age. Even the great Paul Stanley cannot hit the notes he used to. Rush added more instrumentals and detuned to help Geddy. This is a fact of life. Your vocal chords cannot do what you did in your youth. Add the fact that Geoff's style of singing and what Todd is continuing does massage damage to vocal chords.
Change your expectations. It's on you. The older singers get, the more they have to baby their vocal chords.
Joe, you know I have complete respect for you, so please don't take this personally when I say this and am this blunt: That position is complete garbage. This isn't about Todd just being older. Bruce Dickinson has a couple of decades on LaTorre, and look at the mammoth set times Maiden consistently offers their fans. It isn't about babying one's voice. Yes, a singer needs to take care of his/her instrument. That's one of my HUGE peeves with Geoff Tate. The man had phenomenal talent, and I will praise him all day long for not only his range and power, but also his ability to go out night after night, whether sick or healthy, whether motivated or not, and deliver night after night. But his abuse of his voice and his neglect and failure to take care of it are inexcusable. For different reasons, I have the same criticism of LaTorre. He and the band are selling a product. And the length of their sets on tour because of his inability to sing a standard length set makes it an inferior product. And there are LOTS of singers his age or much older who do not find it necessary to so severely cut their set length down and have taken great lengths to find ways to extend the set and deliver for the fans while taking care of their voices. The things you mention are no excuse whatsoever for Todd and Queensryche to not find ways to do the same. None whatsoever. And for that reason, I am completely unapologetic in continuing to insist that, as long as they choose to take that route, I refuse to give them any of my money for it.
It's not on the fans. It's on the band to help Todd. When Todd joined, it was constant bragging from both him and the band about his vocal abilities and that they didn't have to tune down like they did with Geoff. That's what they've done since, and their sets keep getting shorter. This year is the shortest by far (the Condition Human tour averaged 15-18 songs). Last night, Fates Warning got more time, but QR still played the same 15 songs.
So rather than the band adjusting their music to help Todd (like you are demonstrating that Rush did, which allowed them to continue to play 2-3 hour shows for their fans), they're cutting short the show and shortchanging fans.
Bingo. Grappler nails it again. If they need to tune some of the harder songs down, that's fine. If they need to "pad" the set a bit with some less challenging songs to give Todd a break, that's fine. If they need to take some other liberties to give him a break during the set, that's fine. Heck, sneak in a couple of covers or "alternate versions" of songs with Eddie or Parker singing, if that's what it takes. There are tons of options. Fans understand that. Fans don't feel ripped off when bands do that. When a band simply cuts the set down to a length far below what their peers are able to consistently find ways to deliver, a lot of fans do feel cheated and push back on that, and rightly so.
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I don't think I've ever been to a show that had a headline set that lasted two hours? Maybe Iron Maiden? Nowadays tour packages give a little more space to the opener, or there are several openers. 13 songs is obviously too short, but 15 is already much better and a step in the right direction imo. If Todd knows he isn't one of the 10% of frontmen who can deliver two hour shows consistently, that's not a knock on him - his voice will be judged very harshly as it is. As he gets a few more years as a touring vocalist (he started after 40, right?) under his belt, he might dare to lengthen the set once he knows what he's comfortable with, or he might not, as he's getting older along with the rest of the guys. If this is truly on him and not on the guys wanting to shake things up.
That's where setlist creativity comes into play. Do a mini acoustic set mid show (like the Tribe tour) to give the vocals a rest. A few extended instrumental sections (as opposed to straight solos). There are subtle ways to keep TLT's vocals preserved while at the same time still delivering a 2-hour set.
You must not go to a lot of shows if you are not seeing two hour-plus headlining sets. The last three concerts I saw prior to Queensryche on this tour - Steven Wilson (Dec 18), The Neal Morse Band (Feb 19), and Y&T (two days before I saw Ryche) ALL were on stage for more than 2 hours. It comes down to a desire to give the fans that kind of a performance. I really don't think Queensryche has it in them.
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I don't think I've ever been to a show that had a headline set that lasted two hours? Maybe Iron Maiden? Nowadays tour packages give a little more space to the opener, or there are several openers. 13 songs is obviously too short, but 15 is already much better and a step in the right direction imo. If Todd knows he isn't one of the 10% of frontmen who can deliver two hour shows consistently, that's not a knock on him - his voice will be judged very harshly as it is. As he gets a few more years as a touring vocalist (he started after 40, right?) under his belt, he might dare to lengthen the set once he knows what he's comfortable with, or he might not, as he's getting older along with the rest of the guys. If this is truly on him and not on the guys wanting to shake things up.
That's where setlist creativity comes into play. Do a mini acoustic set mid show (like the Tribe tour) to give the vocals a rest. A few extended instrumental sections (as opposed to straight solos). There are subtle ways to keep TLT's vocals preserved while at the same time still delivering a 2-hour set.
This would've been a cool idea, esp. now with there being 2 acoustic bonus tracks on the limited edition. The acoustic set could also have included the obligatory Silent Lucidity to freshen it up a bit for the diehards who are tired of it.
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...Bruce Dickinson has a couple of decades on LaTorre, and look at the mammoth set times Maiden consistently offers their fans. It isn't about babying one's voice. Yes, a singer needs to take care of his/her instrument....
Just to clarify something here so everyone is on the same page: Bruce Dickinson had serious vocal problems in the 80s and 90s, and he sought out help from a vocal teacher. He dramatically improved his live technique and thus, his performances.
Axl Rose got in touch with his vocal coach before doing the AC/DC stint, and that definitely helped him out.
Glenn Hughes is probably the golden standard of fanatically taking care of one's own voice; that guy is wailing and singing with the range and stamina of a 20-year old.
As great as Tate was, even he sought out a vocal coach back in '83 before Queensr˙che went on tour (he never finished all the sessions though).
Even if someone has a natural singing talent, there is always room for improvement. I'll bet you that you can find a high-profile pro singer, who has never had coach training, who has still learned a trick or two from talking to other singers in the game.
I do find it a bit odd that a vocal coach would tell Todd there was nothing they could do for him, at all. There's always something.
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...Bruce Dickinson has a couple of decades on LaTorre, and look at the mammoth set times Maiden consistently offers their fans. It isn't about babying one's voice. Yes, a singer needs to take care of his/her instrument....
Just to clarify something here so everyone is on the same page: Bruce Dickinson had serious vocal problems in the 80s and 90s, and he sought out help from a vocal teacher. He dramatically improved his live technique and thus, his performances.
Axl Rose got in touch with his vocal coach before doing the AC/DC stint, and that definitely helped him out.
Glenn Hughes is probably the golden standard of fanatically taking care of one's own voice; that guy is wailing and singing with the range and stamina of a 20-year old.
Exactly. Those guys did what it took to figure out how to deliver. And while I personally think there are a lot of reasons I wouldn't go see Axl Rose "sing," one criticism I CANNOT make is the guy failing to at least deliver a long enough set with enough songs to keep fans happy. Joe mentioned Paul Stanley struggling nowadays. Again, that isn't the issue. KISS do not go out and call it a night after a sub-60 minute set either. Their shows are long, and fans go away happy. Todd/Queensryche have not put in the work to do the same. It's that simple.
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Hey bosk1, it's all about the conversation. I love talking music. I don't want people to think I'm mad at all. I think someone like Bruce who's in a better financial state can afford a vocal couch. I saw Maiden last year in from of 18,000 people. I just saw Queensryche in front of maybe a 1,000 people. Money is the root of all. Some band have to survive by playing out and i think the guys in Ryche aren't made of money.
I just lower my expectations knowing that bands not in their prime will do things like this. I get the dollar side of a fan but in all honesty, I really enjoyed the show and didn't feel cheated by Queensryche, I did feel cheated that Fates Warning had only a 45 minute set and the opening band took time away from them. From what I understand, they paid to play and again, that goes to a band that can't afford things like a vocal coach like a Bruce can.
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Joe mentioned Paul Stanley struggling nowadays. Again, that isn't the issue. KISS do not go out and call it a night after a sub-60 minute set either. Their shows are long, and fans go away happy. Todd/Queensryche have not put in the work to do the same. It's that simple.
KISS recently started off their tour with Paul lip-syncing his vocals. 2 hour set or not, that's worse than anything Queensr˙che has ever been accused of. :corn
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Joe mentioned Paul Stanley struggling nowadays. Again, that isn't the issue. KISS do not go out and call it a night after a sub-60 minute set either. Their shows are long, and fans go away happy. Todd/Queensryche have not put in the work to do the same. It's that simple.
KISS recently started off their tour with Paul lip-syncing his vocals. 2 hour set or not, that's worse than anything Queensr˙che has ever been accused of. :corn
Yup. Paul has been doing that.
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Hey bosk1, it's all about the conversation. I love talking music. I don't want people to think I'm mad at all.
Same. :tup
I think someone like Bruce who's in a better financial state can afford a vocal couch. I saw Maiden last year in from of 18,000 people. I just saw Queensryche in front of maybe a 1,000 people. Money is the root of all. Some band have to survive by playing out and i think the guys in Ryche aren't made of money.
I just lower my expectations knowing that bands not in their prime will do things like this. I get the dollar side of a fan but in all honesty, I really enjoyed the show and didn't feel cheated by Queensryche, I did feel cheated that Fates Warning had only a 45 minute set and the opening band took time away from them. From what I understand, they paid to play and again, that goes to a band that can't afford things like a vocal coach like a Bruce can.
I get what you're saying. And on the surface, it makes sense. But here's where I'm going to push back a bit on that: Yeah, you have to financially cut corners wherever you can if you make your living in music and aren't one of the Metallicas or Iron Maidens of the world. I get that. But (1) when it comes to making necessary improvements to your craft that you NEED to maintain an acceptable level of quality, it is foolish and shortsighted to not spend the money. And (2) although working with a vocal coach can be very expensive, it can also be fairly inexpensive. You don't have to go with the "Cadillac plan" to see results. You can go with a "Chevy plan" and still get where you need to go. In this day and age, there are TONS of talented, knowledgeable people out there, and with the Internet, they aren't hard to find. And they also aren't hard to meet with since you can now do lessons, consultations, etc. over the Internet with a webcam instead of meeting face to face. It can be easy AND affordable. To me, that removes the excuse.
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Oh I agree but what do people do that are financial tight? They cost cut on things they shouldn't. It's human nature.
I'll pay that bill next month.
I'll cut the setlist down to save my voice.
If I remember correctly, Journey had everyone sing a song live to help Augerri (sp?) In the end they had to go to another singer. We'll see about Todd.
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A lot of singers struggle to bring it every night, vocal coach or not. Bruce Dickinson is the odd one out there.
Maybe Todd could improve with a vocal coach, maybe he had one and he got better but not good enough for two hours every night?
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Maybe it's time for them to down-tune? They did it with GT, and I don't think that there's any shame in dropping a half step. Most listeners won't know the difference in a live setting, anyways. Of course, there will be the musicians in the audience that will, but I'd hope that most of them would understand the circumstances.
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Maybe it's time for them to down-tune? They did it with GT, and I don't think that there's any shame in dropping a half step. Most listeners won't know the difference in a live setting, anyways. Of course, there will be the musicians in the audience that will, but I'd hope that most of them would understand the circumstances.
I know some have complained about that, but I never took issue with bands needing to that in a live setting (Rush being the obvious example). Voices change. Age takes it toll. So stuff like down-tuning to me is an acceptable compromise, especially if a band really wants to give fans the most bang for their buck (like Rush always did). The desire to put on that kind of a show has to be there and thus far it just doesn't feel like the desire is there by the band since TLT took over. They seem to want to do the barest minimum and that is a real shame, especially with such a strong album that is getting a lot of good press and reception from fans (hell, it's reignited my interest in the band).
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Yeah, on a case by case basis, it can be fine. Most of the time, it isn't that noticeable. And when it is, most of the time, it doesn't negatively impact the song too much. But there are definitely exceptions. I remember when I saw Tesla some years ago, and they downtuned a few songs, it was really noticeable. And one a few songs, such as Edison's Medicine, it made the song overly muddy and sucked the life out of it to the point of making it pointless to even play it. But, yeah, a lot of the time, it's just fine. I know that Y&T downtunes a LOT of their stuff nowadays, even though Dave Meniketti was initially pretty resistant to doing it, and it really works for them.
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You must not go to a lot of shows if you are not seeing two hour-plus headlining sets. The last three concerts I saw prior to Queensryche on this tour - Steven Wilson (Dec 18), The Neal Morse Band (Feb 19), and Y&T (two days before I saw Ryche) ALL were on stage for more than 2 hours. It comes down to a desire to give the fans that kind of a performance. I really don't think Queensryche has it in them.
You're right, I don't, I moved from one asshole of Europe to another (tours wise) and I mostly see metal bands whose material is notoriously difficult to perform or lesser known bands who put together multi-band tour packages to be able to go out on tour at all. Some people mention that under two hours is substandard, maybe it's substandard for some of you guys. For me, under 90 minutes is substandard. If most of their audience agrees that under two hours is substandard, even though it's more difficult for Todd to perform these songs than for Steven Wilson to perform his songs as a vocalist, then they have some tough choices and setlist restructuring or even downtuning to do.
But if that's true, it's not a vocal limitation, it's just not being vocally exceptional. Vocal coaching is a bit like astrology with fancy jargon in this regard, the only thing that can improve your singing stamina in particular is improving your core strength and doing loads of cardio. A few of my favorite metal singers started doing that about 6-7 years ago and started reaping the benefits just recently, it can be done. But those guys are in their thirties and at the end of the day the voice is a fickle instrument that we don't understand as well as we'd like to think.
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For me, under 90 minutes is substandard.
I think that if they were playing 90 minutes, you wouldn't hear much complaining. But what they are offering is so far short of even that.
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It'd be easier to accept if they were playing 75 minutes and Fates was also playing 75 minutes, as a sort of co-headliner.
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It'd be easier to accept if they were playing 75 minutes and Fates was also playing 75 minutes, as a sort of co-headliner.
That opening band didn't need to be there. Music didn't even fit. Money talks when you pay to play.
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For me, under 90 minutes is substandard.
I think that if they were playing 90 minutes, you wouldn't hear much complaining. But what they are offering is so far short of even that.
Yeah, I always criticize bands when they do that. In the past few years it's mostly been casinos and fly-ins for them and now there's this strange (not unnatural, but they have to have some balance in status and I think QR is doing it by having a shorter set, and then there's that other band) tour with FW. If they have a regular bus tour with one local opener and a new label hopeful and still have those 70 minute sets, I'll definitely wonder what the heck is up with that. I'm just reacting to this whole two hour standard. If Dream Theater jumps off a bridge, should all other bands jump off a bridge? :lol
I kid obviously. But it's very easy to extend a set by 15 minutes even if you don't add songs and if they don't do that I will side eye them a lot. Extended solo spots, banter, hi our new fabulous tour drummer Casey Grillo will play you a two minute solo, some banter, a fun cover song where they all share vocals, acoustic ballad. Hell, Todd can have a drum duel with Casey. Other than that, he can quit smoking, invest in his fitness and see where it takes him, take a risk by lenghtening a set and have some off nights like every other singer, or even just get more inspired. To compare him with Ray Alder since they're tourmates now, people have been knocking on Alder for years in a way that they'll never knock on Todd, the man has lost like half his range and it's always a risk he'll have an off night vocally when you're seeing him, for a variety of factors. But he gives it his all emotionally and on FW's most recent album he connected to the material so much and came up with such good vocal melodies that it knocked ten years off his voice easily.
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Maybe it's time for them to down-tune? They did it with GT, and I don't think that there's any shame in dropping a half step. Most listeners won't know the difference in a live setting, anyways.
I didn't notice DT downtuning the Images and Words songs and I know them inside out. My buddy that was with me and is a musician (bass player) immediately recognized it however. And also, I've heard James more or less nailing the songs, so give me a downtuned awesome rendition of Another Day over an original rendition of the song with James struggling immensely any time.
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Maybe it's time for them to down-tune? They did it with GT, and I don't think that there's any shame in dropping a half step. Most listeners won't know the difference in a live setting, anyways.
I didn't notice DT downtuning the Images and Words songs and I know them inside out. My buddy that was with me and is a musician (bass player) immediately recognized it however. And also, I've heard James more or less nailing the songs, so give me a downtuned awesome rendition of Another Day over an original rendition of the song with James struggling immensely any time.
This.
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Fan filmed video of "Eyes Of A Stranger" at the Worcester Palladium in MA this week, watch to see the surprise at the end.
https://youtu.be/JTfPw9aCMPU
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Fan filmed video of "Eyes Of A Stranger" at the Worcester Palladium in MA this week, watch to surprise at the end.
https://youtu.be/JTfPw9aCMPU
I know. I was there!
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Fan filmed video of "Eyes Of A Stranger" at the Worcester Palladium in MA this week, watch to see the surprise at the end.
https://youtu.be/JTfPw9aCMPU
What'd I miss? I watched the last couple minutes of the video and didn't see anything exceptionally different other than TLT on a small drum kit next to Casey's. Is that it?
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I say they play the middle of Empire that will add in a couple more minutes.
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Fan filmed video of "Eyes Of A Stranger" at the Worcester Palladium in MA this week, watch to see the surprise at the end.
https://youtu.be/JTfPw9aCMPU
I don't get it.
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Fan filmed video of "Eyes Of A Stranger" at the Worcester Palladium in MA this week, watch to see the surprise at the end.
https://youtu.be/JTfPw9aCMPU
What'd I miss? I watched the last couple minutes of the video and didn't see anything exceptionally different other than TLT on a small drum kit next to Casey's. Is that it?
Of course is that it. The lead singer doing a drum duet is definitively it. What else could it be? :D
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It was cool seeing Todd play some percussion durring a few tunes.
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The Verdict sold 8,100 copies (https://www.metalinsider.net/columns/metal-by-numbers/metal-by-numbers-3-13-demon-hunter-have-a-double-debut) in its first week - approximately 100 less than Dedicated to Chaos (https://www.metalinsider.net/columns/metal-by-numbers/metal-by-numbers-76-sales-aren%E2%80%99t-as-limp-as-we-expected). 😬
Fan filmed video of "Eyes Of A Stranger" at the Worcester Palladium in MA this week, watch to see the surprise at the end.
https://youtu.be/JTfPw9aCMPU
What'd I miss? I watched the last couple minutes of the video and didn't see anything exceptionally different other than TLT on a small drum kit next to Casey's. Is that it?
Of course is that it. The lead singer doing a drum duet is definitively it. What else could it be? :D
It seems they moved the drum duet from I Am I there, because I watched a recent clip of IAI and Todd no longer played during the new drum break in the middle.
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No he did that as well. Jammed with them on a few songs over the set.
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No he did that as well. Jammed with them on a few songs over the set.
Oh cool, maybe I just happened to see the one video where he didn't do it :lol
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The Verdict sold 8,100 copies (https://www.metalinsider.net/columns/metal-by-numbers/metal-by-numbers-3-13-demon-hunter-have-a-double-debut) in its first week - approximately 100 less than Dedicated to Chaos (https://www.metalinsider.net/columns/metal-by-numbers/metal-by-numbers-76-sales-aren%E2%80%99t-as-limp-as-we-expected). 😬
No doubt Pledge Music screwing over everyone played a part in those low sales.
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At what time does QR hit the stage? Trying to decide if I should stay overnight or not. Doors open at 7pm and show starts at 8pm (Fates Warning - 45 min). I'm pressuming QR starts at 915-930pm and plays for 70 mins (LOL)?
I'm mainly there for Fates but I've never seen the Todd fronted QR.
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No he did that as well. Jammed with them on a few songs over the set.
Oh cool, maybe I just happened to see the one video where he didn't do it :lol
Swiss band Gotthard used to do this, singer vs drummer.
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Saw them last night in San Antonio. I think QR is stuck in a very tough situation. What I noticed was that people love the old songs. The new songs felt like a buzzkill for the crowd, including me. I like the Todd era but the songs live don’t really translate well. They don’t seem to be energetic or anthemic like some of older songs. And the band feeds off this energy when playing. Parker and Ed seemed to be going with the flow with the new songs but wilth the older ones, their demeanor changed and were happy and interacting with the crowd. Light Years was even better live and probably it was the only song where I did hear the crowd getting into it.
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This will be my 3rd time seeing the LaTorre era. This time though at least they're not playing in a casino.
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Saw them last night in San Antonio. I think QR is stuck in a very tough situation. What I noticed was that people love the old songs. The new songs felt like a buzzkill for the crowd, including me. I like the Todd era but the songs live don’t really translate well. They don’t seem to be energetic or anthemic like some of older songs. And the band feeds off this energy when playing. Parker and Ed seemed to be going with the flow with the new songs but wilth the older ones, their demeanor changed and were happy and interacting with the crowd. Light Years was even better live and probably it was the only song where I did hear the crowd getting into it.
This happens all the time to classic bands.
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I actually thought the new songs came off well when I saw them. I do think however, that it would be better for them not to play so many of them in a row. That would help keep the energy up I think.
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Oh, and of course - if they played a little bit longer, they could add another old song or two and another new one, mix it up, and everyone would be happy.
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Light-years (OFFICIAL VIDEO)
https://youtu.be/qqI4OfolPuo
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Earlier today I got an e-mail saying they're coming to Copenhagen in November.
Guess I'll finally catch them then :millahhhh
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They're coming to Oslo with Firewind, another great choice. I'm glad they're surrounding themselves with excellence and bands that have published great albums in the past 2-3 years. Firewind was spotty for a bit and had a few clunkers, but their latest album is excellent and the balance of heaviness and melody in their music is right where Queensryche is aiming as well. Gonna be a great show.
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After giving The Verdict more spins I think it's good, but Condition Human was stronger IMO. Light Years is one of QR's best songs from any era, Portrait reminds me of Spool and The Right Side of My Mind in a good way, and I also really like Inside Out, Bent and Dark Reverie (apart from the Casio orchestrations), as well as the proggier overall vibe. However, Inner Unrest is meh, Launder the Conscience feels like 2 songs glued together and Propaganda Fashion is the worst TLT-era song yet. Wilton talked about having only 2 or 3 complete songs when they started pre-production as opposed to CH, for which 95% of the songs were ready by that point, and while I wouldn't call The Verdict rushed like the s/t, I can hear the difference, because CH sounds more well-thought-out to me. To be fair though, the uncertain drummer situation didn't exactly help them, but they managed to put together a pretty good album nevertheless.
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Okay, so...I heard a bunch of songs from the new album, since they would often come up in various online playlists. I liked what I heard, although I didn't listen very deeply. Given all the bonus content on the "import" version, I was going to hold off on buying the new one until I could find a reasonably-priced version of that. But I eventually gave up. I'm sure I'll find it eventually, but I swear, Amazon and the like make it so difficult and convoluted trying to figure out what version of an album you are looking at and what the actual track listing is. (see my thread on the topic) So I finally figured that I should just get the standard edition for now until I can eventually get that figured out. So I picked it up over the weekend.
I haven't had time to fully digest it at this point, obviously. But my initial verdict on The Verdict is that it's a pretty solid effort. All the developments in the band in recent years, from the band's stated mission of trying to mold their sound into simply a modernized, heavier version of their classic-era sound, Todd stepping up to be a primary writer along with Wilton and Jackson, Scott departing, and Parker kind of disconnecting from the band and music just a little bit, the overall sound of this album is a VERY logical progression from the previous two. They continue to be on "thin ice" with me in terms of my fandom, for various reasons. But the bottom line is, I like the music, so if they continue to put out music that I enjoy, I will continue to buy it. This album is enjoyable. As I familiarize myself more with the songs, maybe I can post more details about what I like and don't like. But one thing that stood out to me that I'll mention now is that, as I was scanning the liner notes, I noticed more writing credits for Eddie and Parker than I would have expected, and I like that fact.
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Happy 33rd Birthday to Rage for Order! :metal
I wrote a blog on the record's three-tiered lyrical theme earlier this month. Check out it at: http://anybodylistening.net/ragefororder-threetiers.html.
If you care to subject yourself to more of my ramblings, the main blog page table of contents is here: http://anybodylistening.net/scream.html. In addition to RFO, recent additions include a review of Tate's Sweet Oblivion record, an examination of the song "Della Brown," and a look back at DeGarmo's short-lived Spys4Darwin "supergroup" and their sole EP.
Anyway, regarding RFO, it is such a great record. The songs are really incredible. I'm not quite a fan of the mix. But it could just be the era. Always hoped someone would do a 5.1 remix of the record, but it has never happened. I remember asking Neil Kernon once about it in 2006, and he said he'd love to do it if the opportunity ever came up. Wish that would have come to fruition. Rage would be jaw-dropping with a proper 5.1 (or whatever high fidelity number we're up to these days) mix.
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Happy 33rd Birthday to Rage for Order! :metal
I wrote a blog on the record's three-tiered lyrical theme earlier this month. Check out it at: http://anybodylistening.net/ragefororder-threetiers.html.
If you care to subject yourself to more of my ramblings, the main blog page table of contents is here: http://anybodylistening.net/scream.html. In addition to RFO, recent additions include a review of Tate's Sweet Oblivion record, an examination of the song "Della Brown," and a look back at DeGarmo's short-lived Spys4Darwin "supergroup" and their sole EP.
Anyway, regarding RFO, it is such a great record. The songs are really incredible. I'm not quite a fan of the mix. But it could just be the era. Always hoped someone would do a 5.1 remix of the record, but it has never happened. I remember asking Neil Kernon once about it in 2006, and he said he'd love to do it if the opportunity ever came up. Wish that would have come to fruition. Rage would be jaw-dropping with a proper 5.1 (or whatever high fidelity number we're up to these days) mix.
Great write up :tup
The Whisper is such a cool tune :metal
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Well THIS is interesting...Chris DeGarmo apparently sold off the publishing rights to all of his songs from Mindcrime and Empire, plus the soundtrack songs Last Time in Paris and Real World. It happened last year.
I reported on it here - http://anybodylistening.net/degarmo-publishing.html
Great write up :tup
The Whisper is such a cool tune :metal
Thanks man! A credit to all the fellow old school fans who sat down and deciphered that record over the last 30 years. Some deep thinking. Good shit!
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So I know very little about the music industry but wouldn't it be worth holding on to those? Wouldn't he be getting a royalty check from the sales of those albums?
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So I know very little about the music industry but wouldn't it be worth holding on to those? Wouldn't he be getting a royalty check from the sales of those albums?
I am in the midst of writing up a blog talking about that, and adding in some business stuff and speculation that may have gone into his decision. I don't have access to Chris, so only he and his advisors know why he did it, but in a nutshell, he has been drawing royalties from it all. But you get to a point where you see the value not increasing, and if you are offered a sizeable amount to part with the rights, it can be a very good business move.
As I said in the news report, KK Downing's reasons were different, but he sold off his in Priest for a big sum. Downing no longer receives quarterly royalties from the sale of those 136 songs. But he was paid a big sum to part with those rights. This is essentially that, on what I imagine is a smaller sale. I'll post something more in detail on it tomorrow. Speculative, as always, but based on business stuff.
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Oh cool, makes sense if that's the case. I'll be interested in reading the blog post
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I wrote up a blog this morning that speculates on why Chris sold off those publishing rights, and what, if anything, it may mean for Queensryche and/or his involvement with them moving forward. Check it out here:
www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html (main blog site -- has all blogs listed)
www.anybodylistening.net/degarmo-publishingsale.html (direct link to blog)
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Happy 33rd Birthday to Rage for Order! :metal
I wrote a blog on the record's three-tiered lyrical theme earlier this month. Check out it at: http://anybodylistening.net/ragefororder-threetiers.html.
If you care to subject yourself to more of my ramblings, the main blog page table of contents is here: http://anybodylistening.net/scream.html. In addition to RFO, recent additions include a review of Tate's Sweet Oblivion record, an examination of the song "Della Brown," and a look back at DeGarmo's short-lived Spys4Darwin "supergroup" and their sole EP.
Anyway, regarding RFO, it is such a great record. The songs are really incredible. I'm not quite a fan of the mix. But it could just be the era. Always hoped someone would do a 5.1 remix of the record, but it has never happened. I remember asking Neil Kernon once about it in 2006, and he said he'd love to do it if the opportunity ever came up. Wish that would have come to fruition. Rage would be jaw-dropping with a proper 5.1 (or whatever high fidelity number we're up to these days) mix.
Speaking of RFO - when are one of the parties going to do a tour for *that* album? I don't care if it's an anniversary or not; I'd love to see it. Yes Empire will be more popular blah blah blah, and next year is indeed the anniversary, so fine. But I would love for someone to do RFO (and I'd prefer it to be QR). It's a short enough album that they'll still have plenty of time for Empire, Silent Lucidity, and Jet City Woman.
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I wrote up a blog this morning that speculates on why Chris sold off those publishing rights, and what, if anything, it may mean for Queensryche and/or his involvement with them moving forward. Check it out here:
www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html (main blog site -- has all blogs listed)
www.anybodylistening.net/degarmo-publishingsale.html (direct link to blog)
Would it be possible that Chris could be "reuniting" with QR as a hired gun for a 30th Anniversary show for Empire? Hired gun would mean a steadier and fixed paycheck compared to just being compensated from publishing. Still think a reunion is a long shot as you mentioned in your other article about the window they have/had. Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing.
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Man... I'd love for my first QR show to be one focusing on RFO. That is my favorite album of theirs since getting into them. It's weird and memorable.
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The more songs they play from Rage for Order, the better.
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Speaking of RFO - when are one of the parties going to do a tour for *that* album? I don't care if it's an anniversary or not; I'd love to see it. Yes Empire will be more popular blah blah blah, and next year is indeed the anniversary, so fine. But I would love for someone to do RFO (and I'd prefer it to be QR). It's a short enough album that they'll still have plenty of time for Empire, Silent Lucidity, and Jet City Woman.
Back in 2016, I shook my head at how stupid it was that QR didn't take advantage of the Rage anniversary and do a show based on that record and at the time, their "new one" (Condition Human) that was a year old. I know QR (with Tate) played a Halloween show back in 2011 or 2010 at Irving Plaza in NYC that was Rage in its entirety. I didn't follow that era of the band closely, but if memory serves, fans were pissed because while they played the album, they did it out of sequence.
Overall, I don't think promoters will generally pay for a tour based solely around an anniversary of Rage for Order. It wasn't popular enough. Mindcrime and Empire are different. Those were/are the band's highest selling albums.
Would it be possible that Chris could be "reuniting" with QR as a hired gun for a 30th Anniversary show for Empire? Hired gun would mean a steadier and fixed paycheck compared to just being compensated from publishing. Still think a reunion is a long shot as you mentioned in your other article about the window they have/had. Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks. Anything is possible of course. But he's shown no interest so far in doing that, and to be frank, while I don't know the guy, I think its telling that he's never performed with current Queensryche or Tate. Very smart move on his part.
I mean, if the original lineup were made a big offer to reunite, of course he'd probably consider it. But the publishing stuff doesn't really have anything to do with that. My point in mentioning any sort of reunion was to point out that if Chris had intended to reunite with QR, it would have, IMO, been better to wait to sell off the publishing to the songs from Empire and Mindcrime, because a reunion would give those songs a larger boost, and thereby give him a bit more leverage in whatever negotiations he held with Sony when coming to a financial figure for the sale (potentially, Chris could have gotten more than whatever he received). But it is a moot point now, because the sale is done, which, at least to me, could possibly be an indication that he's moved on from any sort of reunion possibility. But again, total speculation on my part. That was a mouthful. :lol Let me know if it didn't make sense. :lol
The more songs they play from Rage for Order, the better.
Man... I'd love for my first QR show to be one focusing on RFO. That is my favorite album of theirs since getting into them. It's weird and memorable.
I got into QR with Rage and Mindcrime. i am pretty sure it was early 1988 when I got into them. It could have been summer 1987, but I don't remember. All I know is, the first time I heard Walk in the Shadows on my Walkman (kattelox, let me know if you don't know what that is, youngin - LOLOLOL. Joking), it was one of those jaw-drop moments. WHAT YOU SAY?!?!?! :metal
The rest, for me, is history. Been my favorite band ever since (the original lineup). What a ride. My favorites from Rage to this day are Screaming in Digital, Neue Regel, and Walk in the Shadows. I love all of them. My least favorite is Gonna Get Close to You. But it comes off really cool live. I remember at Tate's first solo show, at The Catwalk in Seattle (not sure that place still exists), he played it, and had a pair of fangs in his mouth as he sang it. It was really cool.
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I think Walk In The Shadows was the song that got me hooked too Brian - same sort of timeline :metal
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I think Walk In The Shadows was the songs that got me hooked too Brian - same sort of timeline :metal
:metal
Great minds...
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I remember when Queen of the Reich first got played on local rock station KZOK. Totally blew my mind. I loved the EP straight away (the timing was perfect, as they were coming out along side Judas Priest and Iron Maiden, and everyone was hailing them as the "next big thing") but like so many others, I was underwhelmed by The Warning. It was pretty good, and had a few really great songs, but it wasn't the huge kick in the face we were all expecting after the EP. Then I lost track for awhile, and got deep into thrash and "the big 4".
But I remember hanging out at my cousin's house and we were lamenting the synths in the new Iron Maiden album we had just bought (Somewhere in Time) when I noticed that he had bought Rage for Order on cassette. He mentioned that he thought it was OK and said I could borrow it. I was luke warm on WitS at first because I hated anything that sounded remotely like a bid for radio airplay, so I was fairly dismissive of it (I love it now, but still consider it to be among the weaker tracks from the album). But I Dream in Infrared tapped into the part of me that loved Pink Floyd and Rush and I started to become more interested. By the time The Whisper came on, I knew that I was listening to something VERY special. I got my own copy and wore it out.
My ranking:
1. Neue Regal
2. Screaming in Digital
3. The Whisper
4. London
5. I Dream in Infrared
6. I Will Remember
7. Surgical Strike
8. The Killing Words
9. Gonna Get Close to You
10. Walk in the Shadows
11. Chemical Youth (We Are Rebellion)
But there are no bad songs here.
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he played it, and had a pair of fangs in his mouth as he sang it. It was really cool.
That sounds anything but cool. :lol
Sam, interesting read, as always. Didn't realize there were so many vampire connections. I feel like that almost undermines some of the other themes you mention.
Regarding QR, Like J-dude, I first heard the EP. The radio station in Providence had a DJ, Doug Fry, who started a Metal Hour at midnight on Saturday nights. I used to record all of the shows. This was the fall of 82/spring of 83. It was my freshman year of HS. It was here where I first heard QR, Metallica, Slayer. It may have been the single most influential things in my musical life.
I was full on QR when Warning came out. I loved Warning. Still do, and still consider it my favorite QR album. But when RFO came out. I didn't get it. Where's the metal?? WTF is with these outfits? :lol
I think I liked Walk In The Shadows and Surgical Strike and that was pretty much it.
I had a ticket to see Ozzy/Metallica in April of '86. The show was cancelled and rescheduled for the following September. But with QR as the opening band. I had just started college, and since I didn't like The Ultimate Sin, OR RFO, I sold my ticket. I do regret that now.
BTW, Doug Fry was replaced on WHJY with Dr. Metal. Dr. Metal is actually thanked in the liner notes of WDADU, but was tragically killed in The Station fire in 2003.
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he played it, and had a pair of fangs in his mouth as he sang it. It was really cool.
That sounds anything but cool. :lol
Sam, interesting read, as always. Didn't realize there were so many vampire connections. I feel like that almost undermines some of the other themes you mention.
Thanks. yeah, sounds weird, but it worked. I don't think the vampire references took away from Rage at all. Remember the popularity of that stuff at the time (and continuing to this day). Sure, less serious than the other topics, but it blended in with the darker vibe on the record.
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My point in mentioning any sort of reunion was to point out that if Chris had intended to reunite with QR, it would have, IMO, been better to wait to sell off the publishing to the songs from Empire and Mindcrime, because a reunion would give those songs a larger boost, and thereby give him a bit more leverage in whatever negotiations he held with Sony when coming to a financial figure for the sale (potentially, Chris could have gotten more than whatever he received). But it is a moot point now, because the sale is done, which, at least to me, could possibly be an indication that he's moved on from any sort of reunion possibility.
I don't completely disagree, and I obviously am also speculating, but here's a counter-point to consider: Maybe CDG was looking to get out from under those falling publishing numbers anyway, but Sony couldn't or wouldn't offer him enough to make it worthwhile. But if Chris were to promise a reunion tour, that would provide a potential bump in income from those publishing rights, and perhaps would have given Sony incentive to offer just a bit more that would have put the offer into the "sweet spot" you mentioned to where it is worth it for both parties to do the deal.
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So your counterpoint is to suggest a reunion tour is in the works?
I find that highly unlikely, but you never know.
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So your counterpoint is to suggest a reunion tour is in the works?
No, not at all. I'm just saying that Chris selling his publishing rights does not necessarily add up to "no reunion." I'm just presenting alternate conclusions one could draw, that's all.
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My point in mentioning any sort of reunion was to point out that if Chris had intended to reunite with QR, it would have, IMO, been better to wait to sell off the publishing to the songs from Empire and Mindcrime, because a reunion would give those songs a larger boost, and thereby give him a bit more leverage in whatever negotiations he held with Sony when coming to a financial figure for the sale (potentially, Chris could have gotten more than whatever he received). But it is a moot point now, because the sale is done, which, at least to me, could possibly be an indication that he's moved on from any sort of reunion possibility.
I don't completely disagree, and I obviously am also speculating, but here's a counter-point to consider: Maybe CDG was looking to get out from under those falling publishing numbers anyway, but Sony couldn't or wouldn't offer him enough to make it worthwhile. But if Chris were to promise a reunion tour, that would provide a potential bump in income from those publishing rights, and perhaps would have given Sony incentive to offer just a bit more that would have put the offer into the "sweet spot" you mentioned to where it is worth it for both parties to do the deal.
Obviously everyone has their circumstances, but for the life of me I can't image selling my publishing. Taking the lump sum is sort of penny-wise and pound foolish absent some other determining factors. It's an annuity. All you have to have is one song hit it on a soundtrack or something, and bammo, the numbers are radically different.
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I saw them open for Kiss; it was Kiss's Animalize tour, and QR's The Warning tour. I remember having heard the EP at that point (they played the entire EP plus about half or a little more of The Warning) but I was there for Kiss. I can remember thinking "wow that guy can SING!" but having only heard the EP at that point much of the music was lost in the echo-ing cavern that was the old New Haven Coliseum. I can't really remember much about the rest; I do know that QR didn't really connect with me until Operation: Mindcrime. I played the SHIT out of that record when it came out (and Empire, but as much as I like Empire, O:M is where it's at for me). For whatever reason I didn't get to see the O:M tour or the Empire tour, and I can't see myself seeing either entity at this point. I have the first post-Tater QR record and it's good, but I'm not really on the bandwagon anymore.
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So your counterpoint is to suggest a reunion tour is in the works?
No, not at all. I'm just saying that Chris selling his publishing rights does not necessarily add up to "no reunion." I'm just presenting alternate conclusions one could draw, that's all.
Unless I wrote it wrong, I wasn't saying that no reunion would happen. I just think the sale makes it less likely.
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I know. I'm just offering up a different possible perspective. What's the issue?
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I know. I'm just offering up a different possible perspective. What's the issue?
No issue bosk. Just didn't quite understand what you were saying.
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I hate to say I told you so, but:
http://bravewords.com/news/geoff-tate-says-queensryche-have-been-approached-for-reunion-tour-its-been-offered-and-it-hasnt-happened
Promoters see value in reunions and landmark albums. 2020 could have been a really cool one for fans of Queensryche's original lineup. Bummer. On a more serious note, sucks about Scott. And even worse if they are having legal issues (which I knew was going to happen).
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I just read that. Pretty telling.
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Sad situation all around, would've been great if they gave it one last go as a group.
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I hate to say I told you so, but:
http://bravewords.com/news/geoff-tate-says-queensryche-have-been-approached-for-reunion-tour-its-been-offered-and-it-hasnt-happened
Promoters see value in reunions and landmark albums. 2020 could have been a really cool one for fans of Queensryche's original lineup. Bummer. On a more serious note, sucks about Scott. And even worse if they are having legal issues (which I knew was going to happen).
OK, but wait just a minute. Even aside from the fact that I don't believe a word Tate says (which he has earned), the lack of detail in that Q&A is stunning. The only thing he says is:
Greg: If the right promoter came around with the right offer, could you ever see all five for a summer?
Tate: “Well, that has happened already. It’s been offered, and it hasn’t happened.”
Greg: Did the phone ring, and was it actually discussed and knocked around at least?
Tate: “It was on my end, yeah.”
Who called? Who discussed it? Was the "call" also made to the band? Was it a legitimate and worthwhile offer? Why hasn't it happened? Did Geoff reject it? Did anyone else? Did Geoff impose impossible terms that the others couldn't live with? There are FAR too many blanks that aren't filled in.
I'm not defending the band and saying they didn't drop the ball. But there is not nearly enough in that Q&A to go off of in terms of pointing fingers at anyone.
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I agree with your take, bosk1. Tate sure seems to know a lot about a guy who he himself said won't talk to him, so basically, he is basically spreading gossip about a former bandmate with whom he had a bad falling-out. Typical of what an asshole Tate is. No one should believe a word he says about anything.
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I bet the "promoter" was Susan Tate. :lol
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I bet the "promoter" was Susan Tate. :lol
:lol
Yeah, I hear ya regarding what Tate says. But I believe him on this one. Why? Because $$$$$.
He wants cash, and he knows he could/would make more next year using the name. So he is putting a little public pressure out there to see if anyone in the qr camp takes the bait and discusses the offer(s) on the table.
There is always, always more value in a famous band reuniting and touring a legacy record. Always.
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There is always, always more value in a famous band reuniting and touring a legacy record. Always.
Absolutely. But we don't know if there actually ARE any offers on the table. All we have is his vague implication that there might be something that may somewhat resemble an offer that was allegedly made by some unidentified person to some other unidentified person(s) at some unidentified time with some unidentified terms.
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All we have is his vague implication that there might be something that may somewhat resemble an offer that was allegedly made by some unidentified person to some other unidentified person(s) at some unidentified time with some unidentified terms.
Sounds pretty specific to me! :rollin
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There is always, always more value in a famous band reuniting and touring a legacy record. Always.
Absolutely. But we don't know if there actually ARE any offers on the table. All we have is his vague implication that there might be something that may somewhat resemble an offer that was allegedly made by some unidentified person to some other unidentified person(s) at some unidentified time with some unidentified terms.
But do we ever really know what offers are made to bands until tours or shows are announced? Not all the time. I believe that a promoter did float the idea to Geoff and probably the band as well. Geoff is obviously interested, the band likely shot it down. The next step is to drop a tidbit to the public and see if it generates some interest. Promoters may come back with better and bigger offers, especially knowing that Tate's doing his Empire thing and if they're seeing that fans want to see Geoff return.
Conception was completely defunct, Roy Khan was singing in Kamelot....and then in 2005, they played a few festival gigs, including Progpower. Dangle a big enough carrot and musicians might have a hard time saying no. Anthrax reunited with Joey that same year. Dokken did a few gigs for a giant payday, despite those guys pretty much hating each other. It's not unheard of.
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A reunion seems even more implausible based on what he said. Scott won't talk to Tater and now Scott also seems to be completely estranged from the band. Throw in the fact that DeGarmo will probably never come back.
Never gonna happen.
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It's sad that Tate's muck raking about Scott, a man who he says isn't even talking to him, and I'm sure it's intentional that he's non-specific about the law suits to leave the implication out there that it's between Scott and QR when it could just as well be concerning other business interests and/or his (2nd) ex-wife.
Still, at least this puts to bed the rumours of Scott hooking up with Tate to play some shows.
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Still, at least this puts to bed the rumours of Scott hooking up with Tate to play some shows.
But that was totally going to happen!
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Still, at least this puts to bed the rumours of Scott hooking up with Tate to play some shows.
But that was totally going to happen!
No need to vaguely hurl insults. I was wrong. Not the first time, certainly not the last. For the record, I was told that AT THE TIME, they were speaking and looking to work together. I firmly believe that. I posted my opinion based on that, and as always, my writing style is straightforward and confident. Some people get all fired up and get their panties in a bind because of that. Too bad. My guess is, whatever path Scott has allegedly and unfortunately gone down, happened AFTER that timeframe. But I don't know.
There is always, always more value in a famous band reuniting and touring a legacy record. Always.
Absolutely. But we don't know if there actually ARE any offers on the table. All we have is his vague implication that there might be something that may somewhat resemble an offer that was allegedly made by some unidentified person to some other unidentified person(s) at some unidentified time with some unidentified terms.
But do we ever really know what offers are made to bands until tours or shows are announced? Not all the time. I believe that a promoter did float the idea to Geoff and probably the band as well. Geoff is obviously interested, the band likely shot it down. The next step is to drop a tidbit to the public and see if it generates some interest. Promoters may come back with better and bigger offers, especially knowing that Tate's doing his Empire thing and if they're seeing that fans want to see Geoff return.
Thank you, Grappler. Exactly my point. People are so anti-Tate, that very common and obvious things are denied and are thought of as implausible. Promoters approach artists ALL. THE. TIME. with offers of various things. Any promoter in hard rock/metal would be stupid not to send feelers out there seeing if there's an interest in a QR reunion featuring Empire. It makes TOTAL sense. You get a sense of the market, and you see if there is anything out there.
You better believe Dream Theater was approached by promoters to get the band who recorded Images and Words together to celebrate it. It was likely turned down, but we generally never know of those things unless the musicians themselves say something. In this case, Tate (and I assume, the band) was approached (according to Tate), and he chose to reveal that. As Grappler said, if it gains traction and a bigger offer pops up, then perhaps that pressure moves the needle. Perhaps not.
But to deny common music business practice because "oh, its Tate, he can't be trusted," is foolhardy. LOL.
Offers like this, to tons of legacy bands with landmark records happen ALL the time.
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Offers like this, to tons of legacy bands with landmark records happen ALL the time.
Which is evident as how many bands are playing old albums whole.
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But to deny common music business practice because "oh, its Tate, he can't be trusted," is foolhardy.
I generally am anti-Tate. And, no, I do not trust him. Sorry, but his track record has not earned him any trust, and part of that is his (very limited) track record with me.
But your above statement is not accurate at all, either. I am not denying common practice. You posted a link and pretty much said that that confirms your suspicion that the band was approached. It doesn't. He never says anything of the kind. So my point, again, is that you are wrong that Tate confirmed what you had earlier speculated about. And I will also say again that I would not be surprised if your speculation turned out to be right and the band had in fact been approached and dropped the ball. That is very much in the realm of possible. But as of right now, there is no actual evidence of that.
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I find it interesting that we're even talking about the band dropping the ball here though. Maybe the band just doesn't want to have anything to do with him. Maybe they didn't like being spit on. And even though some fans might want to see a reunion, I don't think them refusing is them dropping the ball. Especially given the things he's been saying in interviews - maybe it's seemed to some that he's totally changed but perhaps now his true colors are surfacing again? Personally, I'll have more respect for them if they don't work with him again. If the money is just too good to pass up, so be it, I get it.
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But to deny common music business practice because "oh, its Tate, he can't be trusted," is foolhardy.
I generally am anti-Tate. And, no, I do not trust him. Sorry, but his track record has not earned him any trust, and part of that is his (very limited) track record with me.
But your above statement is not accurate at all, either. I am not denying common practice. You posted a link and pretty much said that that confirms your suspicion that the band was approached. It doesn't. He never says anything of the kind. So my point, again, is that you are wrong that Tate confirmed what you had earlier speculated about. And I will also say again that I would not be surprised if your speculation turned out to be right and the band had in fact been approached and dropped the ball. That is very much in the realm of possible. But as of right now, there is no actual evidence of that.
I don't think you need evidence. There's Queensryche. And there's Geoff Tate. Two parties to this equation. Doesn't it make sense that if a promoter contacted Geoff, he also likely contacted the band? You can't have a reunion if you only contact one party. Of course, the band's not going to share that info because they're fully behind Todd . So you're not going to see any "evidence," but it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together.
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You need 2 and 2 to put them together, and you don't have that. Again, it's pure speculation.
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You need 2 and 2 to put them together, and you don't have that. Again, it's pure speculation.
Speculating is someone one does on a message board, right? I don't see how you can say that if there was a legitimate offer from a promoter, that they would ONLY call Geoff. They'd have to contact the band as well and there is reason to believe that they did and the band said No. End of story. Geoff can't reunite with Queensryche if they don't call the band and say "would you reunite for X amount of money?" It's wheeling and dealing.
There's a great story from Glenn at Progpower about how he put together the PPIII lineup - the US debuts of Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray and Edguy. He lied his ass off to all of the bands. He had offers out to all three, with no response. He told one band that he had Blind Guardian (or Gamma Ray) even though they weren't booked. They said "holy shit, you booked them?" and they then felt like it was a legit festival, despite being in its third year. All of the bands fell in line and accepted the gig, simply because he was wheeling and dealing with their agents. What did he have to lose? After that year, the festival's reputation started growing.
Any promoter could do the same with QR. Call the band and say "Hey, Geoff's in. Are you?" All it takes is getting them to the table to hammer something out, and money and fan interest can do it. Hell, Iced Earth fired Ripper Owens in part due to the fans saying "we want Matt Barlow back," combined with some other elements. If the fans want it and promoters can sense it, there's traction there to make a buck.
Even if Geoff is full of shit in this instance, and no legitimate offer was made, he's getting the idea out there. As we all saw with Dokken, once a promoter puts enough zeroes behind a number, it becomes very hard to resist. Those guys did their gigs, took the money and Don went back to his prior band lineup for future Dokken shows.
QR could do the same. Then it's up to Todd to take one on the chin and let the band have their fun and then rejoin them after the reunion, or pull a John Bush and walk away because the band didn't stand behind him.
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My point in mentioning any sort of reunion was to point out that if Chris had intended to reunite with QR, it would have, IMO, been better to wait to sell off the publishing to the songs from Empire and Mindcrime, because a reunion would give those songs a larger boost, and thereby give him a bit more leverage in whatever negotiations he held with Sony when coming to a financial figure for the sale (potentially, Chris could have gotten more than whatever he received). But it is a moot point now, because the sale is done, which, at least to me, could possibly be an indication that he's moved on from any sort of reunion possibility.
I don't completely disagree, and I obviously am also speculating, but here's a counter-point to consider: Maybe CDG was looking to get out from under those falling publishing numbers anyway, but Sony couldn't or wouldn't offer him enough to make it worthwhile. But if Chris were to promise a reunion tour, that would provide a potential bump in income from those publishing rights, and perhaps would have given Sony incentive to offer just a bit more that would have put the offer into the "sweet spot" you mentioned to where it is worth it for both parties to do the deal.
Obviously everyone has their circumstances, but for the life of me I can't image selling my publishing. Taking the lump sum is sort of penny-wise and pound foolish absent some other determining factors. It's an annuity. All you have to have is one song hit it on a soundtrack or something, and bammo, the numbers are radically different.
Eh... You can't really paint with a broad brush here.
I once represented an artist who had a couple monster hits and multi-platinum albums in the latter half of the 90s. About 10 years later, the principle songwriter sold publishing rights (similar to what Downing and DeGarmo) did. The songs were still generating royalties, but the substantial lump-sum received made far more sense for the writer. I'm sure DeGarmo's deal was for a lower sum, but it may very well have made sense for him. It's sort of like winning the lottery: do you want the lump sum or the payout over time?
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You need 2 and 2 to put them together, and you don't have that. Again, it's pure speculation.
Speculating is someone one does on a message board, right? I don't see how you can say that if there was a legitimate offer from a promoter, that they would ONLY call Geoff.
Good, because I did NOT say that. You are completely missing the point. Yes, speculation is fine. And as I've said, I think speculating that this might have occurred seems more likely than not. But that has nothing to do with this conversation. This conversation was about Geoff's comment and whether it proved (not speculation--proof) that the band was approached. It doesn't. End of story. You can speculate all you want. That's fine. But what you cannot do is perpetuate rumors that there is no supporting evidence for. This is a discussion forum, not a gossip rag. "Happened" and "might have happened" are not the same thing.
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I find it interesting that we're even talking about the band dropping the ball here though. Maybe the band just doesn't want to have anything to do with him. Maybe they didn't like being spit on. And even though some fans might want to see a reunion, I don't think them refusing is them dropping the ball. Especially given the things he's been saying in interviews - maybe it's seemed to some that he's totally changed but perhaps now his true colors are surfacing again? Personally, I'll have more respect for them if they don't work with him again. If the money is just too good to pass up, so be it, I get it.
Bolded part is how I feel.
Tate is behaving like shit and the band (maybe) refusing to do something with him is not dropping the ball but normal human behaviour.
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I find it interesting that we're even talking about the band dropping the ball here though. Maybe the band just doesn't want to have anything to do with him. Maybe they didn't like being spit on. And even though some fans might want to see a reunion, I don't think them refusing is them dropping the ball. Especially given the things he's been saying in interviews - maybe it's seemed to some that he's totally changed but perhaps now his true colors are surfacing again? Personally, I'll have more respect for them if they don't work with him again. If the money is just too good to pass up, so be it, I get it.
Bolded part is how I feel.
Tate is behaving like shit and the band (maybe) refusing to do something with him is not dropping the ball but normal human behaviour.
Nobody's excusing Tate's behavior. Money makes people do things that they might not ordinarily do. Look at all of the bands throughout history - the acrimony in Fleetwood Mac - people are in and out of that band all the time. People break up, make up, continue artistic partnerships and so on because they're being paid well to do it. By the time Motley Crue ended, some of those guys didn't get along on a personal level, but they put their shit aside for 2 hours a night so they could play shows.
That's what we're saying. Tate and the band don't have to be best friends to work together again, especially if it's just a tour. In this instance, I believe that the band probably turned down an offer to reunite with Geoff. But if there is public interest and the offers get better and better, maybe they won't be so quick to dismiss the idea.
Personally, I think the band dropped the ball a long time ago when they decided to primarily play these stupid fly-in gigs and not reinvent themselves as a progressive/metal band again. They went all-in on nostalgia and it took them 7 years to decide to play a set featuring mostly new material with Todd. It's not what I wanted from them...I figured the nostalgia factor was fueled by Tate's wife managing them, but it continued on after they were gone.
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In an ideal world I want my favorite artists to do their music because they feel that that is their calling and their passion. And in that ideal world a band turns down an offer to reunite just for the sake of making money with a member who's been shit-talking and shit-doing for a long time.
And we're not in an ideal world and people do almost everything for money, I know that. But I still applaud them if they want nothing to do with Tate as long as it's only about reuniting for financial purposes. And I'm aware that they may still cave in if the price is right. But one can dream of that ideal world. ;)
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That's what we're saying. Tate and the band don't have to be best friends to work together again, especially if it's just a tour. In this instance, I believe that the band probably turned down an offer to reunite with Geoff. But if there is public interest and the offers get better and better, maybe they won't be so quick to dismiss the idea.
But QR are an ongoing concern with TLT and Parker Lundgren. If they reunite they're almost certainly calling time on at least TLT's tenure and possibly Parker's too. After any tour reuniting them the career of QR will likely be stranded unless it's anything involving the reunited lineup and I can't imagine them coming out of such a tour on any better terms with Tate than they were previously.
If it's not the original 5 guys, and DeGarmo hasn't shown any interest whatsoever in playing music for a living in a very long time, then I don't see the money on offer being eye watering so why throw away an ongoing career, however limited compared to its prior glories, for a short lived decent payday to tour with a certifiable cunt?
The whole reuniting thing doesn't make any sense from where I'm sitting. Certainly not whilst they're not close to retiring QR for good.
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I love drama!!!
But lets face it QR is GARBAGE without Tate and truly nobody cares about this very bad Tribute band called QR.
Tate may not be an angel but he carried them and from what I read he and his family were "attacked and fired" in a terribly unprofessional way. I dont sense any dignity in the other guys Tate had to work with as they appeared to be lazy and always just in it for a paycheck. Tate to me is a human who reacted and to me he was the only face of the band and without him there is zero draw or interest period. I laugh at how others paint it so one sided as in any band of 30 years nobody is an angel or innocent. I tried to listen to the new QR CD and HATE IT, I personally dont like it and do NOT like the new singer at all and find their new shows horrible and nowhere near the quality of when Tate was in the band and of course Chris De Garmo.
This band to me is only a odd story but offer nothing musically of interest without Tates quirky and great stage show and I do like Tates voice a lot period and at his age he sounds amazing . its like JP without Rob or Maiden without Bruce VH without DLR, etc etc... Wilton is not very good either and the other fill in is totally forgettable, now with Scott the drummer gone with his terrible divorce taking its mental toll on him its all very bad, to me Tate should never go back and to me Tates shows scratch the true QR itch enough at this point in time and I dont want them to get back as the whole show was always Tate period once Chris left and took his amazing leads and solos with him and Chris was the higher register many times Tate would harmonize with ... I think its time to change the QR name or retire the name and enjoy their past glory like many bands.
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Sounds to me like someone is extremely biased...
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me? I just simply dont find anything interesting in the QR Tribute band .. I dont ever feel its QR.
it was to me like when DLR left VH.. the solo DLR for some reason felt more VH than the Sammy stuff.
Im not a huge fan of them anyway but love the drama
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Sounds to me like someone is extremely biased...
Biased AND ignoring facts. :lol
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I love drama!!!
But lets face it QR is GARBAGE without Tate
And they were garbage WITH Tate for well over a decade before kicking ass to the curb.
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I love drama!!!
But lets face it QR is GARBAGE without Tate
And they were garbage WITH Tate for well over a decade before kicking ass to the curb.
Not sure how anyone can call The Verdict "garbage". I rather like it. I can understand the criticism that it fails to capture former glories, and for that reason might not meet many people's expectations. But the album itself is rather good....and EASILY the best thing they've done since PL.
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me? I just simply dont find anything interesting in the QR Tribute band .. I dont ever feel its QR.
I hear ya, man.
BUT..
I actually like the three Todd Era albums. I know it's not QR. But what was QR anyway? They started out legendary, and self imploded in both personnel, quality, anything identifiable to the 80's. To me, they were done after Empire. Many others choose Promised Land as the last decent thing they did.
I'd easily take the 3 Todd Era albums over the 6-8 albums that came before them.
EPICVIEW, I think you're old enough to remember the Tony Martin Era of Black Sabbath. I remember being fucking insulted as a fan that they were calling this Black Sabbath. Do they think I am that fucking stupid? So you know what I did? I ignored them completely. They played in Boston a number of times, and I skipped every show. Fuck them. Except come to find out, there was a ton of great tunes on those albums, plus Cozy Powell.
If you have truly listened to the Todd Era albums with an open mind and you don't like them, great. But I wouldn't hold the name on the album against the music.
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You know what REALLY wasn't QR? Dedicated to Chaos....
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I find it interesting that we're even talking about the band dropping the ball here though. Maybe the band just doesn't want to have anything to do with him. Maybe they didn't like being spit on. And even though some fans might want to see a reunion, I don't think them refusing is them dropping the ball. Especially given the things he's been saying in interviews - maybe it's seemed to some that he's totally changed but perhaps now his true colors are surfacing again? Personally, I'll have more respect for them if they don't work with him again. If the money is just too good to pass up, so be it, I get it.
Bolded part is how I feel.
Tate is behaving like shit and the band (maybe) refusing to do something with him is not dropping the ball but normal human behaviour.
Nobody's excusing Tate's behavior. Money makes people do things that they might not ordinarily do. Look at all of the bands throughout history - the acrimony in Fleetwood Mac - people are in and out of that band all the time. People break up, make up, continue artistic partnerships and so on because they're being paid well to do it. By the time Motley Crue ended, some of those guys didn't get along on a personal level, but they put their shit aside for 2 hours a night so they could play shows.
That's what we're saying. Tate and the band don't have to be best friends to work together again, especially if it's just a tour. In this instance, I believe that the band probably turned down an offer to reunite with Geoff. But if there is public interest and the offers get better and better, maybe they won't be so quick to dismiss the idea.
You could well be right about them considering better offers. However - and I don't think you or anyone else (besides fanboy) is excusing his behavior - I still just don't find the band to be lacking in any way if they choose not to do this. Sure, they could "put their shit aside." But if they don't... instead of somehow suggesting that they've dropped the ball, or perhaps are being petty by letting personal issues ruin this great reunion opportunity, I'll still have more respect for them if they walk away, stand behind Todd, etc. And I don't mean to suggest that everyone in QR has behaved like an angel the whole time - I have no idea what went on behind the scenes. But I do know what Tate's chosen to say in interviews, I've seen that video from Brazil, and I certainly don't blame them for not wanting to deal with him.
Personally, I think the band dropped the ball a long time ago when they decided to primarily play these stupid fly-in gigs and not reinvent themselves as a progressive/metal band again. They went all-in on nostalgia and it took them 7 years to decide to play a set featuring mostly new material with Todd. It's not what I wanted from them...I figured the nostalgia factor was fueled by Tate's wife managing them, but it continued on after they were gone.
No argument there.
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I love drama!!!
But lets face it QR is GARBAGE without Tate
And they were garbage WITH Tate for well over a decade before kicking ass to the curb.
Not sure how anyone can call The Verdict "garbage". I rather like it. I can understand the criticism that it fails to capture former glories, and for that reason might not meet many people's expectations. But the album itself is rather good....and EASILY the best thing they've done since PL.
The Verdict has grown on me over time and I like most of it, but still not as good as Condition Human. Definitely not garbage. TL has an awesome voice and I don't consider them a tribute band either.
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You could well be right about them considering better offers. However - and I don't think you or anyone else (besides fanboy) is excusing his behavior - I still just don't find the band to be lacking in any way if they choose not to do this. Sure, they could "put their shit aside." But if they don't... instead of somehow suggesting that they've dropped the ball, or perhaps are being petty by letting personal issues ruin this great reunion opportunity, I'll still have more respect for them if they walk away, stand behind Todd, etc. And I don't mean to suggest that everyone in QR has behaved like an angel the whole time - I have no idea what went on behind the scenes. But I do know what Tate's chosen to say in interviews, I've seen that video from Brazil, and I certainly don't blame them for not wanting to deal with him.
I agree. I respect them for finally standing behind Todd and his albums - playing a set full of those songs that he wrote. So I have no problem with them likely turning down an offer to reunite, even live.
Personally, though, I'd like to see them reunite with Geoff, simply because I've let all of that drama go. It's really sad to see fans continually rehash the same old, tired drama, time and time again, taking things to the Matt. Sessions like these just don't serve any purpose several years down the road and it's just time to move on.
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Sounds to me like someone is extremely biased...
Biased AND ignoring facts. :lol
Its Rock and Roll, There are no real facts. LOL to me the only fact is it became dysfunctional, The music is all subjective... compared to DT to me QR is not about musicianship and I have no interest in the poor playing of Wilton and who ever. The only member was Tate after Chris. QR had artistry and that was all Tate. The NU QR is just cut and paste stuff and simply has nothing in common with to me any QR w Tate stuff. I enjoyed all their CDs . I also to stay on topic have no interest in a reunion and hope Tate doesnt do it. have a nice nite
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You know what REALLY wasn't QR? Dedicated to Chaos....
of course I remember brother. and I agree with your post, !!
As far as NU QR , I dont like it all and it has the weird forced contrived feel and the songs are clunkers and dont resonate at all with me , I get nothing from it and the shows are god awful now,
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You know what REALLY wasn't QR? Dedicated to Chaos....
actually That CD has the most band input in many ways and I enjoyed the CD, Im old enough to remember many QR albums like Promised land get no love till many years later after that amazing show. The CD were to be concept for the tour be themed on as they "evolved" its a shame I think they should have retired but they all needed the money for various reasons
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Promised Land the show :tup
Promised Land the album :tdwn
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I love drama!!!
But lets face it QR is GARBAGE without Tate
And they were garbage WITH Tate for well over a decade before kicking ass to the curb.
Not sure how anyone can call The Verdict "garbage". I rather like it. I can understand the criticism that it fails to capture former glories, and for that reason might not meet many people's expectations. But the album itself is rather good....and EASILY the best thing they've done since PL.
The Verdict has grown on me over time and I like most of it, but still not as good as Condition Human. Definitely not garbage. TL has an awesome voice and I don't consider them a tribute band either.
I personally do NOT like his voice at all but thats subjective and I find his stage show horrid and pure amateur they all stink on stage now.
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Promised Land the show :tup
Promised Land the album :tdwn
Yea ,,, it was a benchmark tour. Tate owned the planet and Chris top form
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Out here, the show was outdoors on a hot July night. It was amazing. I consider Promised Land a really weak album, but the songs really came alive on stage. Especially Out Of Mind.
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Out here, the show was outdoors on a hot July night. It was amazing. I consider Promised Land a really weak album, but the songs really came alive on stage. Especially Out Of Mind.
I saw 3 shows on that tour... out of mind was spine tingling good
you nailed it bro ,,old QR on any tour was MAGIC,, you knew magic was gonna happen and thats gone without Tate
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You could well be right about them considering better offers. However - and I don't think you or anyone else (besides fanboy) is excusing his behavior - I still just don't find the band to be lacking in any way if they choose not to do this. Sure, they could "put their shit aside." But if they don't... instead of somehow suggesting that they've dropped the ball, or perhaps are being petty by letting personal issues ruin this great reunion opportunity, I'll still have more respect for them if they walk away, stand behind Todd, etc. And I don't mean to suggest that everyone in QR has behaved like an angel the whole time - I have no idea what went on behind the scenes. But I do know what Tate's chosen to say in interviews, I've seen that video from Brazil, and I certainly don't blame them for not wanting to deal with him.
I agree. I respect them for finally standing behind Todd and his albums - playing a set full of those songs that he wrote. So I have no problem with them likely turning down an offer to reunite, even live.
Personally, though, I'd like to see them reunite with Geoff, simply because I've let all of that drama go. It's really sad to see fans continually rehash the same old, tired drama, time and time again, taking things to the Matt. Sessions like these just don't serve any purpose several years down the road and it's just time to move on.
I believe there is zero chance of a reunion. Tate does not need Jackson or Wilton, and Chris has no interest and Scott is far from ready to tour . Tate is articulate and knows its fun subject to banter as he readies for his Empire tour, and to me Tates band captures the feel good enough live to satisfy
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Sounds to me like someone is extremely biased...
Biased AND ignoring facts. :lol
Its Rock and Roll, There are no real facts.
Right...because when the facts don't line up with your narrative, it's a lot easier to ignore them and pretend there aren't any facts? I gotcha. ;)
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Sounds to me like someone is extremely biased...
Biased AND ignoring facts. :lol
Its Rock and Roll, There are no real facts.
Right...because when the facts don't line up with your narrative, it's a lot easier to ignore them and pretend there aren't any facts? I gotcha. ;)
LOL the facts are not known.. many of us have no idea what truly happened and the run up to the split.
what facts am I missing? I have a feeling I will know of much greater "unknown" facts . but I do chuckle when the "band" is thrown flowers as "innocent" as Tate is painted as " a dictator" or worse.
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LOL the facts are not known..
Yes, many of them are. Do some reading and critical thinking.
but I do chuckle when the "band" is thrown flowers as "innocent" as Tate is painted as " a dictator" or worse.
Yeah, I would too. Thankfully, that doesn't really happen much here on this site.
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Tate is partly responsible for painting him like a villain.
His recent stab at Rockenfield, while also admitting that they haven't communicated in years??? Yes, very classy and innocent stuff.
And the story about the process behind the Sweet Oblivion project? Very classy as well.
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LOL the facts are not known..
Yes, many of them are. Do some reading and critical thinking.
but I do chuckle when the "band" is thrown flowers as "innocent" as Tate is painted as " a dictator" or worse.
Yeah, I would too. Thankfully, that doesn't really happen much here on this site.
what facts are you debating ? we all have read whats been out there in the fanzines etc. but thats only what each side wanted to have be out there.
Im tired of the "spitting " canard and how its all "big bad Geoffs" fault , like he just woke up one day and decided to "attack' his old bandmates and even if he did so what, most bands have heated horrible fights and nobody hears of it.
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Paging Samsara. Samsara to the front please. There is a customer who needs your assistance. Thank you.
:biggrin:
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Geoff? Is that you?
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Geoff? Is that you?
LOL : )
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Tate is partly responsible for painting him like a villain.
His recent stab at Rockenfield, while also admitting that they haven't communicated in years??? Yes, very classy and innocent stuff.
And the story about the process behind the Sweet Oblivion project? Very classy as well.
oh the horror LOL a "major rockstar" with an attitude ??? how can it be?
the band has major major major blood on their hands for how they treated Geoff after Wilton"found" Latorre.
Its rock and roll "..classy is not something that concerns me,,, and in reality many of us know Geoff is a very good person and ive only witnessed him being nice .. my eyes dont lie. I cant say that about 2 of the guys in the band that really gave nothing to the fans .
I also dont think any casual fan went to see "the bass player" LOL
Geoff is also responsible for covering for many of deficiencies and and horrible laziness and selfishness of some of his bandmates and Geoff allowed them "time off" to save their marriages, have kids, raise the kids etc to only be backstabbed , Geoff did most of the work in the band and many years allowed hsi bandmates to take time off as he worked . lets face it none of them are "writers" post Chris and Geoffs voice was the only element the record co wanted to sell, and the record was only a vehicle since Tribe to base a tour on, the record was never going to make them money. Latorre is now doing most of the work, I know that makes Geoff chuckle. and yes Geoffs wife and for that matter Scotts ex wife are too involved in the underpinning of the issues,
what gets me is how many bands are awful to their fans, the guys are scumbags are worse and nobody knows a thing or cares but for some reason Geoff gets a very raw deal and he gave up so much to carry them after Chris left to only be backstabbed, many dont like that truth .
( your avatar of Axl is kind a funny in regards to a guy much like Tate as hes a nice guy but very hated also)
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Now I'm curious what you're doing in the Queensr˙che thread, since you're not a Queensr˙che fan, but rather a Geoff Tate fan.
You're just looking to stir up shit? :corn
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Now I'm curious what you're doing in the Queensr˙che thread, since you're not a Queensr˙che fan, but rather a Geoff Tate fan.
You're just looking to stir up shit? :corn
I apologize, no not trying to stir up anything, if Im in the wrong thread I apologize and it can be move by the mod etc. to me its one big subject. I tend to ramble
yes today Id only see Geoff as without his voice the songs to me dont resonate at all and at his age like any aging rocker Im fine with his vocals
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Trust me....Geoff is honestly one of those truly rare grade A dickweeds. I’ve met him in person when he didn’t have his game face on, and he was the most classless dirtbag you could imagine. And all I did was just ask “Are you Geoff Tate?” Michael had to step in to save the day (he was awesome) but you could tell they had a routine that kept him away from fans.
As a kid, I loved calling in and talking to local (Seattle) radio personalities in their down time. I asked a few of them who the nicest and nastiest musicians they had ever met. Nicest varied a lot...but Geoff being a dick was very common theme. One DJ even made a point of saying he met them when the EP broke locally and said “most of the guys are really nice, but that lead singer had to be the biggest asshole I’ve ever met in my life.”
This guy is a bit more than just your average, run of the mill, egotistical rock star. He’s another level of jerk. Not to mention his shameful public behavior on stage. Insulting audiences, spitting on Scott the whole show.
Don’t get me wrong, from 82-92ish, the guy was the single greatest vocalist in the history of rock/metal. He was untouchable. Not even Halford or Dickinson came close IMO. But he failed to take care of his instrument, and now I consider him to be as poor as Fish in his modern performances. I would be more forgiving of this gross drop in quality if he were even a halfway decent human being...but he’s getting exactly what he deserves.
Dutchess by Genesis comes to mind. “And then there was the time that [he] performed/ When nobody called for more/ And soon every time [he] stepped into the light/ they really let [him] know the score.”
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You had me until Genesis. :lol
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Trust me....Geoff is honestly one of those truly rare grade A dickweeds. I’ve met him in person when he didn’t have his game face on, and he was the most classless dirtbag you could imagine. And all I did was just ask “Are you Geoff Tate?” Michael had to step in to save the day (he was awesome) but you could tell they had a routine that kept him away from fans.
As a kid, I loved calling in and talking to local (Seattle) radio personalities in their down time. I asked a few of them who the nicest and nastiest musicians they had ever met. Nicest varied a lot...but Geoff being a dick was very common theme. One DJ even made a point of saying he met them when the EP broke locally and said “most of the guys are really nice, but that lead singer had to be the biggest asshole I’ve ever met in my life.”
This guy is a bit more than just your average, run of the mill, egotistical rock star. He’s another level of jerk. Not to mention his shameful public behavior on stage. Insulting audiences, spitting on Scott the whole show.
Don’t get me wrong, from 82-92ish, the guy was the single greatest vocalist in the history of rock/metal. He was untouchable. Not even Halford or Dickinson came close IMO. But he failed to take care of his instrument, and now I consider him to be as poor as Fish in his modern performances. I would be more forgiving of this gross drop in quality if he were even a halfway decent human being...but he’s getting exactly what he deserves.
Dutchess by Genesis comes to mind. “And then there was the time that [he] performed/ When nobody called for more/ And soon every time [he] stepped into the light/ they really let [him] know the score.”
I gotta say Ive never seen that one time ...
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As a kid, I loved calling in and talking to local (Seattle) radio personalities in their down time.
If you don't mind me asking, who did you talk to? I met Steve Slaton a couple times. Even won a contest and did an hour guest spot on 102.5 once.
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As a kid, I loved calling in and talking to local (Seattle) radio personalities in their down time.
If you don't mind me asking, who did you talk to? I met Steve Slaton a couple times. Even won a contest and did an hour guest spot on 102.5 once.
Steve Slaton was definitely one of them. In fact, I remember it was SS who gave me an advance copy of Grace Under Pressure before it came out.
But I confess that after 30+ years, I do not remember the exact person who gave me the quote I mentioned. I only remember that it was someone who worked at KZOK when they first played QotR and it got so much feedback that they invited the band to the studio.
....so Geoff was a scumbag before he even found fame.
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Trust me....Geoff is honestly one of those truly rare grade A dickweeds. I’ve met him in person when he didn’t have his game face on, and he was the most classless dirtbag you could imagine. And all I did was just ask “Are you Geoff Tate?” Michael had to step in to save the day (he was awesome) but you could tell they had a routine that kept him away from fans.
As a kid, I loved calling in and talking to local (Seattle) radio personalities in their down time. I asked a few of them who the nicest and nastiest musicians they had ever met. Nicest varied a lot...but Geoff being a dick was very common theme. One DJ even made a point of saying he met them when the EP broke locally and said “most of the guys are really nice, but that lead singer had to be the biggest asshole I’ve ever met in my life.”
This guy is a bit more than just your average, run of the mill, egotistical rock star. He’s another level of jerk. Not to mention his shameful public behavior on stage. Insulting audiences, spitting on Scott the whole show.
Don’t get me wrong, from 82-92ish, the guy was the single greatest vocalist in the history of rock/metal. He was untouchable. Not even Halford or Dickinson came close IMO. But he failed to take care of his instrument, and now I consider him to be as poor as Fish in his modern performances. I would be more forgiving of this gross drop in quality if he were even a halfway decent human being...but he’s getting exactly what he deserves.
Dutchess by Genesis comes to mind. “And then there was the time that [he] performed/ When nobody called for more/ And soon every time [he] stepped into the light/ they really let [him] know the score.”
I ootta say Ive never seen that one time ...
Well....you obviously haven't been paying too close attention. The insulting of audiences during one of their later shows with Geoff was all over the Internet when it happened, and the spitting on Scott for an entire show after they were in an altercation backstage was also all over YouTube (and publicly released court documents that were linked to various music forums) around the time of the breakup.
His above average level of egotistical crap is well documented.
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Just to add to that, I was at Radio City Music Hall on April 1st 2006 at the concert that was filmed for the score DVD. I had passes to the after-show party and was hanging out in the crowd around Mike Portnoy when he admitted to everybody there that Geoff Tate was one of the biggest jerks he had ever met in his entire life. (I'm paraphrasing, but anyone who was there would back me up) The thing was, I was the only one there who was not in the least bit shocked. I am from Seattle, I had talked to several local personalities, and I had met Geoff personally. To me, Mike was only confirming what I had already known for years.
EDIT - in reading that back, that came across a little cockier than I wanted it to. It’s just that you came in here and irritated me with your know it all attitude. I lashed out and in retrospect I feel kind of bad about it. But I do have some experience with this man and it’s not without basis.
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A lot people who have experience with him, myhself included, have come away with a similar take. But as I've said before, none of that even matters as far as this discussion. What Geoff himself has publicly admitted, coupled with what is out there to be observed in the public domain, is more than enough to make the point.
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Paging Samsara. Samsara to the front please. There is a customer who needs your assistance. Thank you.
:biggrin:
:lol
Not sure what I can add to the discussion. At the end of the day, both sides in the Queensryche debacle are at fault, almost on an equal level for the band's fracture.
On one hand, when Chris left (and he looks smarter and smarter for doing that with each passing year), Tate and his wife ultimately assumed the business and creative roles Chris vacated, at least in terms of direction and leadership. That's commendable, and expected. Over the years, the Tates did some...questionable and in some cases vile things, and in some cases, obviously took advantage of their power and influence within the band to steer things to their advantage (all the nepotism, etc.). And as everyone knows, that all came to a head, particularly after Tate tried to sell the rights to Mindcrime out from under the rest of the group, and the direction(s) Tate was interested in weren't something the rest of the band was behind, nor was the majority of the fan base.
On the other hand, the rest of the band (Wilton, Jackson, Rockenfield), let it all happen. They were content with their wallets getting bigger through increased touring opportunities, and didn't want to rock the boat until the band's reputation had fiinallly crashed and burned, and they ultimately learned about the attempted Mindcrime rights sale. That was the key event that pushed them to make the moves they did, in my opinion. It came down to...money. On top of that, they got progressively complacent after Empire's success. They let Chris drive the ship, which makes sense given the success, but they tended to leave everything for him to handle at that point (at least from everything I've ever heard/read). That and other tensions really got to Chris and Chris left. I blogged about this last year and did my best to cover the Chris departure(s) from a speculative point of view -- http://anybodylistening.net/whychrisdegarmoleft.html. That may give some of you that aren't really familiar with the history some insight to what may have happened. Then once Q2k flopped (which was a band effort steered by Tate and Kelly Gray) and Tribe fizzled because the Chris reunion didn't work (allegedly because the Tates' power play angered Chris and he left), the band got complacent again, leaving everything to Tate to do (see the pattern?). You can argue Tate shut them out during the Mindcrime II-Dedicated to Chaos years, but you can also argue he felt he needed to just push forward, because that the band wasn't interested in working creatively with him. Both are probably true to a degree. There's equal fault all over the place.
I don't condone any of Tate's actions (the physical altercations, the spitting, the taking advantage of things, etc.). All of that is disturbing and wrong. But I can, retrospectively, having some personal experience with Wilton, Jackson, and Rockenfield, see why Tate was so frustrated with those guys. And conversely, I also see their frustration with him. Tate's right about one thing though. He said in a recent article that the main problem since 2011, when the fracture really started to widen, and then the split ultimately in 2012, is that none of them will just sit down and talk together and start the healing process. And I get it, I get why. But at the end of the day, you had a relationship for 30+ years, with some enormous highs and low-lows. It may not have been a great one, but given the opportunity, even if the endgame isn't reuniting, but just forgiveness and healing, isn't that worth taking the olive branch?
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On the other hand, the rest of the band (Wilton, Jackson, Rockenfield), let it all happen. They were content with their wallets getting bigger through increased touring opportunities, and didn't want to rock the boat until the band's reputation had fiinallly crashed and burned, and they ultimately learned about the attempted Mindcrime rights sale. That was the key event that pushed them to make the moves they did, in my opinion. It came down to...money. On top of that, they got progressively complacent after Empire's success. They let Chris drive the ship, which makes sense given the success, but they tended to leave everything for him to handle at that point (at least from everything I've ever heard/read). That and other tensions really got to Chris and Chris left. I blogged about this last year and did my best to cover the Chris departure(s) from a speculative point of view -- http://anybodylistening.net/whychrisdegarmoleft.html. That may give some of you that aren't really familiar with the history some insight to what may have happened. Then once Q2k flopped (which was a band effort steered by Tate and Kelly Gray) and Tribe fizzled because the Chris reunion didn't work (allegedly because the Tates' power play angered Chris and he left), the band got complacent again, leaving everything to Tate to do (see the pattern?). You can argue Tate shut them out during the Mindcrime II-Dedicated to Chaos years, but you can also argue he felt he needed to just push forward, because that the band wasn't interested in working creatively with him. Both are probably true to a degree. There's equal fault all over the place.
Brian, I have always held "the band" as equal participants in QR's ultimate crash. Very interesting to read this paragraph. I agree.
But at the end of the day, you had a relationship for 30+ years, with some enormous highs and low-lows. It may not have been a great one, but given the opportunity, even if the endgame isn't reuniting, but just forgiveness and healing, isn't that worth taking the olive branch?
Amen, Brother. Amen.
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http://anybodylistening.net/whychrisdegarmoleft.html
Outstanding read. It's funny because even though all of that was behind the scenes, being a close follower of Queensryche during that time, you could easily see this playing out in the open.
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...But at the end of the day, you had a relationship for 30+ years, with some enormous highs and low-lows. It may not have been a great one, but given the opportunity, even if the endgame isn't reuniting, but just forgiveness and healing, isn't that worth taking the olive branch?
This. It was so cool to see that they met at the festival in Barcelona 2 years ago, and had nothing bad to say about each other.
It really seemed like everyone had moved on and let things be in the past. But now it seems like it's back to badmouthing former colleagues/bandmates, despite not having had any contact since the split :facepalm:
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Trust me....Geoff is honestly one of those truly rare grade A dickweeds. I’ve met him in person when he didn’t have his game face on, and he was the most classless dirtbag you could imagine. And all I did was just ask “Are you Geoff Tate?” Michael had to step in to save the day (he was awesome) but you could tell they had a routine that kept him away from fans.
As a kid, I loved calling in and talking to local (Seattle) radio personalities in their down time. I asked a few of them who the nicest and nastiest musicians they had ever met. Nicest varied a lot...but Geoff being a dick was very common theme. One DJ even made a point of saying he met them when the EP broke locally and said “most of the guys are really nice, but that lead singer had to be the biggest asshole I’ve ever met in my life.”
This guy is a bit more than just your average, run of the mill, egotistical rock star. He’s another level of jerk. Not to mention his shameful public behavior on stage. Insulting audiences, spitting on Scott the whole show.
Don’t get me wrong, from 82-92ish, the guy was the single greatest vocalist in the history of rock/metal. He was untouchable. Not even Halford or Dickinson came close IMO. But he failed to take care of his instrument, and now I consider him to be as poor as Fish in his modern performances. I would be more forgiving of this gross drop in quality if he were even a halfway decent human being...but he’s getting exactly what he deserves.
Dutchess by Genesis comes to mind. “And then there was the time that [he] performed/ When nobody called for more/ And soon every time [he] stepped into the light/ they really let [him] know the score.”
I ootta say Ive never seen that one time ...
Well....you obviously haven't been paying too close attention. The insulting of audiences during one of their later shows with Geoff was all over the Internet when it happened, and the spitting on Scott for an entire show after they were in an altercation backstage was also all over YouTube (and publicly released court documents that were linked to various music forums) around the time of the breakup.
His above average level of egotistical crap is well documented.
LOL .. again none of it is really anything . Ive seen him be amazingly nice over and over , over the years. much nicer than many many rockstars. and by far the nicest guy in the band and the one everyone wanted time with. The fans all know this, sorry your experience didnt go well
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LOL .. again none of it is really anything . Ive seen him be amazingly nice over and over , over the years. much nicer than many many rockstars. and by far the nicest guy in the band and the one everyone wanted time with. The fans all know this, sorry your experience didnt go well
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mvcommunitycovenant.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F2%2F1%2F3%2F12132870%2Fpublished%2Flalala.png%3F1493328802&hash=80c3c4f164bf8b478b17ddfdd770c906e6a6b06d)
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LOL .. again none of it is really anything . Ive seen him be amazingly nice over and over , over the years. much nicer than many many rockstars. and by far the nicest guy in the band and the one everyone wanted time with. The fans all know this, sorry your experience didnt go well
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mvcommunitycovenant.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F2%2F1%2F3%2F12132870%2Fpublished%2Flalala.png%3F1493328802&hash=80c3c4f164bf8b478b17ddfdd770c906e6a6b06d)
LOL
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LOL .. again none of it is really anything . Ive seen him be amazingly nice over and over , over the years. much nicer than many many rockstars. and by far the nicest guy in the band and the one everyone wanted time with. The fans all know this, sorry your experience didnt go well
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mvcommunitycovenant.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F2%2F1%2F3%2F12132870%2Fpublished%2Flalala.png%3F1493328802&hash=80c3c4f164bf8b478b17ddfdd770c906e6a6b06d)
LOL
Actually it's LAL ;D
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LOL .. again none of it is really anything . Ive seen him be amazingly nice over and over , over the years. much nicer than many many rockstars. and by far the nicest guy in the band and the one everyone wanted time with. The fans all know this, sorry your experience didnt go well
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mvcommunitycovenant.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F2%2F1%2F3%2F12132870%2Fpublished%2Flalala.png%3F1493328802&hash=80c3c4f164bf8b478b17ddfdd770c906e6a6b06d)
Brilliant!
At this point, obvious troll is obvious.
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Not really want to defend Tate, but if I remember correctly his "insulting" the audience was basically doing small talk before a song and saying, in a calm and joking manner, "you guys suck". Sure, it's not the best thing that a frontman could do, and it wasn't funny, but if I read that someone insults the audience I expect an angry rant, not a dude calmly saying with a smile "you guys suck". Again, not funny, and I believe all the reports of the last posts about his douchiness, but on the long list of his big offences, I don't think that this specific episode qualifies as such.
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On the other hand, the rest of the band (Wilton, Jackson, Rockenfield), let it all happen. They were content with their wallets getting bigger through increased touring opportunities, and didn't want to rock the boat until the band's reputation had fiinallly crashed and burned, and they ultimately learned about the attempted Mindcrime rights sale. That was the key event that pushed them to make the moves they did, in my opinion. It came down to...money. On top of that, they got progressively complacent after Empire's success. They let Chris drive the ship, which makes sense given the success, but they tended to leave everything for him to handle at that point (at least from everything I've ever heard/read). That and other tensions really got to Chris and Chris left. I blogged about this last year and did my best to cover the Chris departure(s) from a speculative point of view -- http://anybodylistening.net/whychrisdegarmoleft.html. That may give some of you that aren't really familiar with the history some insight to what may have happened. Then once Q2k flopped (which was a band effort steered by Tate and Kelly Gray) and Tribe fizzled because the Chris reunion didn't work (allegedly because the Tates' power play angered Chris and he left), the band got complacent again, leaving everything to Tate to do (see the pattern?). You can argue Tate shut them out during the Mindcrime II-Dedicated to Chaos years, but you can also argue he felt he needed to just push forward, because that the band wasn't interested in working creatively with him. Both are probably true to a degree. There's equal fault all over the place.
Brian, I have always held "the band" as equal participants in QR's ultimate crash. Very interesting to read this paragraph. I agree.
I can't say I do.
The Mindcrime rights sale involved Tate trying to get all the money for it because in his mind the Mindcrime story was his (I rather feel he's diminished DeGarmo's role in how the story was shaped). The reality is the band, as a legal entity, owned the story because without the band's creative involvement the Mindcrime story would have no value.
So yeah, the band being pissed off that Tate was trying to divert all the money from the sale to himself was about money but it was largely about Tate being a thieving arsehole.
Beyond that we get what looks like a boiling frog situation that starts with Promised Land, when Tate said he would give them an album and a tour then he'd quit and started refusing to work with Wilton's ideas; goes through Tate not quitting because he got divorced, remarried and presumably then couldn't afford to quit (particularly not when the solo album bombed and he failed to get the Journey gig); goes through Tate convincing them to let his 2nd wife manage the band and ends up all looking like a big "my way or the highway" situation where if they wanted to earn a living then they had to put up with Tate's shit. Since divorces and other indulgences seem to have done for the Empire windfall of one or two of them then they presumably were somewhat reliant on QR to earn a living.
It's made more complicated by Scott Rockenfield's 2nd(?) wife being best friends with Tate's 2nd wife and it seems that led to a situation where there wasn't going to be a unified front from the three of them when dealing with Tate... right up until their wives falling out over some business issues (as Rockenfield's wife was by this time involved in the band's affairs too) around the time of the Mindcrime movie deal happening.
It seems that over the years Wilton was really the only one trying to push back against Tate's nonsense and in the end Wilton was ready to quit around the time everything fell apart.
Of course money plays its part (if only life could be free of the need to earn money) but "it came down to money" strikes me as rather simplistic. They were shackled to Tate and clearly something significant needed to happen for that situation to change.
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LOL .. again none of it is really anything . Ive seen him be amazingly nice over and over , over the years. much nicer than many many rockstars. and by far the nicest guy in the band and the one everyone wanted time with. The fans all know this, sorry your experience didnt go well
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mvcommunitycovenant.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F2%2F1%2F3%2F12132870%2Fpublished%2Flalala.png%3F1493328802&hash=80c3c4f164bf8b478b17ddfdd770c906e6a6b06d)
Brilliant!
At this point, obvious troll is obvious.
actually ... no. why is discussing this band a "troll"?
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(if only life could be free of the need to earn money)
Why would that be good? We're still humans, we are still subject to human nature... There are countless bands that haven't fought over money, and there are countless bands that fight like dogs and it has nothing to do with money. Here, that's just what triggered it, but if you're asking me, there would have been a fight one way or another.
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(if only life could be free of the need to earn money)
Why would that be good? We're still humans, we are still subject to human nature... There are countless bands that haven't fought over money, and there are countless bands that fight like dogs and it has nothing to do with money. Here, that's just what triggered it, but if you're asking me, there would have been a fight one way or another.
I agree ....look at Kiss, they have had many falling outs with Ace and Peter etc. my fascination is with how Tate was treated after giving his life to QR and really being the hardest worker who had to do every interview and all PR work, to be "fired'? I think Scott regrets how it went down in hindsight and it led to his own personal turmoil now, and Im sure Geoff knows a lot on whats really going on from his wife being so close with Scotts now ex wife, to me thats the fun story now as the music to me is just blah and nothing of real interest or continuing to evolve . to me thats the only subject with this band. I like some of Geoffs stuff but so far hes not hit the bulls eye either, but has about 8 to 10 songs post QR i like a lot
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I have always held "the band" as equal participants in QR's ultimate crash. Very interesting to read this paragraph. I agree.
I can't say I do.
Well, let me highlight a couple of things you said that kind of make my point...
...Tate convincing them to let his 2nd wife manage the band and ends up all looking like a big "my way or the highway" situation where if they wanted to earn a living then they had to put up with Tate's shit. Since divorces and other indulgences seem to have done for the Empire windfall of one or two of them then they presumably were somewhat reliant on QR to earn a living.
..and....
Of course money plays its part (if only life could be free of the need to earn money) but "it came down to money" strikes me as rather simplistic. They were shackled to Tate and clearly something significant needed to happen for that situation to change.
It did come down to money. And I don't blame them. I am not going to tell them how to make a living.
BUT...
They were enablers for Tate, because THEY DECIDED to hitch their wagon to him. They're the ones who gave up their stake of dignity, and they are just as responsible for the embarrassment of what this band turned into. They chased the dollar.
Again, I don't blame them. But let's not act like they weren't complicit or were innocent bystanders.
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It did come down to money. And I don't blame them. I am not going to tell them how to make a living.
BUT...
They were enablers for Tate, because THEY DECIDED to hitch their wagon to him. They're the ones who gave up their stake of dignity, and they are just as responsible for the embarrassment of what this band turned into. They chased the dollar.
Again, I don't blame them. But let's not act like they weren't complicit or were innocent bystanders.
While I completely agree with the bolded part, I don't think that puts them on equal footing with Tate. At this point, there are a lot of things that I assume are true, but can't know for a fact. I assume you and other are right and the band did become complacent. I assume Michael Wilton actually wanted to contribute but for some reason, Tate didn't like or didn't want his input. But I don't think it's right (from what we know) to lay blame equally. After all, if he was upset with their "laziness" he probably could have asked for them to step up, at which point Wilton probably would have said he'd love to and brought out all his ideas that Tate would've then rejected and then he would've gone back to being less involved.... I imagine that scenario probably happened. So if anything, the band should have put their foot down sooner. None of it excuses Tate for trying to sell Mindcrime out from under them, or spitting throughout the whole show, etc.
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But the Rights sales was long after their downward spiral had begun.
I'm not saying Tate is not a dick, but THE BAND DECIDED to be Tate's backup band for the paycheck.
Therefore, they were complicit and whatever happened to Queensryche's reputation is as much on them as it is on Tate.
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TAC, what you are saying is factually correct. But Lethean is saying that the two things are not equivalent and that Tate's conduct is worse (which I tend to agree with).
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Tate could very well be the supreme king of dicks.
But what if Queensryche hung it up in 1998? How would they be looked at? A band that decided to hang it up or a band hanging around for every last dollar no matter what effect their actions or inactions have on the reputation of the Queensryche name.
I mean even if I give you Promised Land, you have 10 great years followed by 18 horrific career diluting years. I'm sorry. There's no way that I cannot hold the rest of the band responsible for their own plight.
I don't have a dog in the Queensryche fight. I lost complete interest in them after HITNF. I don't care who's right or wrong. I'm not in anyone's camp.
Again, I don't blame them for making a living. But if we're being honest, they sold out their dignity and hitched themselves to Tate because they for some reason couldn't come up with anything better.
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There's no way that I cannot hold the rest of the band responsible for their own plight.
Again, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. But that isn't Lethean's point.
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I think Lethean's point was that Tate and the Band are not equal in the great Queensryche fade.
I disagree with that.
He also said the band should've put their foot down sooner. I do agree with that.
But I'm really just spouting off my opinion. I'm not really speaking directly to Lethean per se.
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I think the more important point is that Promised Land is f'ing awesome. Actually, it's more of an indisputable fact than a point. :biggrin: :metal
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Oh, it's disputable..
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Oh, it's disputable..
(https://chainedyetfree.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/simon_says.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQswBUFowivEfAag8Z_egMI-aeSW3U1dz7mnyAOvyGEce7v6pTC)
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While I completely agree with the bolded part, I don't think that puts them on equal footing with Tate. At this point, there are a lot of things that I assume are true, but can't know for a fact. I assume you and other are right and the band did become complacent. I assume Michael Wilton actually wanted to contribute but for some reason, Tate didn't like or didn't want his input. But I don't think it's right (from what we know) to lay blame equally. After all, if he was upset with their "laziness" he probably could have asked for them to step up, at which point Wilton probably would have said he'd love to and brought out all his ideas that Tate would've then rejected and then he would've gone back to being less involved.... I imagine that scenario probably happened.
Precisely.
If Tate refuses to use your work and you don't want to accept Tate bringing in the kind of writers that delivered his poor quality solo album then you're at an impasse.
They got around it with Tribe because they managed to get DeGarmo back and Wilton/Rockenfield/Jackson got together enough ideas Tate would work on (how much convincing DeGarmo had to do I'm not sure we know) to get an album together.
It's after that that point that Tate's wife was installed as sole manager and Wilton was almost completely sidelined and the impasse was resolved by Tate pretty much going ahead and doing what he bloody well felt like and the rest of them were left floundering and just went with it or they compromised their ability to make a living from QR. I'm absolutely certain at this stage Tate would've happily seen the rest of them quit and let him use the QR name for his solo career.
So if anything, the band should have put their foot down sooner.
Yes, they should. But "the band" were not a singular/gestalt entity of Jackson/Rockenfield/Wilton who were all pulling in the same direction whilst this was all going on.
I lay a reasonable degree of blame for that period of their careers at Rockenfield's feet as it was the connection between his wife and Tate's that seems to have led to Wilton consistently getting outvoted on everything in QR land, and all information since the split with Tate has indicated that Wilton wanted/tried to push back on most of Tate's ideas for the band.
I guess I mostly object to reducing a clearly pretty messy situation for a number of years to "it's all about money"
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I guess I mostly object to reducing a clearly pretty messy situation for a number of years to "it's all about money"
You can object all you want. It's an opinion. Just like my thought that "it's all about money" is. I could draw all the connections for you, but it's clearly a waste of time, so I won't bother. Clearly, you would object.
TAC, what you are saying is factually correct. But Lethean is saying that the two things are not equivalent and that Tate's conduct is worse (which I tend to agree with).
For the record, I said "ALMOST EQUAL" in my initial post about the matter. I never said they are equivalent. And I do agree that Tate's conduct was worse. I was simply saying that Tate and his wife are not SOLELY to blame for the fracture. All of them are, and the band does hold a significant part of the blame. Their actions are more understated. But they are certainly there, and in my opinion, add up to a lot more of the blame than they are given publicly.
Again, the sad part of the whole thing is what I said above:
Tate's right about one thing though. He said in a recent article that the main problem since 2011, when the fracture really started to widen, and then the split ultimately in 2012, is that none of them will just sit down and talk together and start the healing process. And I get it, I get why. But at the end of the day, you had a relationship for 30+ years, with some enormous highs and low-lows. It may not have been a great one, but given the opportunity, even if the endgame isn't reuniting, but just forgiveness and healing, isn't that worth taking the olive branch?
There is plenty of fault to go around. But it's a damn shame the four of them can't get in a room and just own up to one another as Tate suggests. Not for any reason other than being able to walk away without the blanket of bitterness that is cast over everything they accomplished together.
Could Tate be lying? Of course he could. I'm not naive. But I tend to believe him on that one.
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TAC, what you are saying is factually correct. But Lethean is saying that the two things are not equivalent and that Tate's conduct is worse (which I tend to agree with).
For the record, I said "ALMOST EQUAL" in my initial post about the matter. I never said they are equivalent. And I do agree that Tate's conduct was worse. I was simply saying that Tate and his wife are not SOLELY to blame for the fracture. All of them are, and the band does hold a significant part of the blame. Their actions are more understated. But they are certainly there, and in my opinion, add up to a lot more of the blame than they are given publicly.
No, I understand what you are saying. All I was pointing out in my post is that TAC and Lethean are really arguing two different things, and TAC didn't see that.
TAC, what you are saying is factually correct. But Lethean is saying that the two things are not equivalent and that Tate's conduct is worse (which I tend to agree with).
For the record, I said "ALMOST EQUAL" in my initial post about the matter. I never said they are equivalent. And I do agree that Tate's conduct was worse. I was simply saying that Tate and his wife are not SOLELY to blame for the fracture. All of them are, and the band does hold a significant part of the blame. Their actions are more understated. But they are certainly there, and in my opinion, add up to a lot more of the blame than they are given publicly.
But it's a damn shame the four of them can't get in a room and just own up to one another as Tate suggests. Not for any reason other than being able to walk away without the blanket of bitterness that is cast over everything they accomplished together.
Could Tate be lying? Of course he could. I'm not naive. But I tend to believe him on that one.
I tend to also. But--and this is complete speculation on my part (but given Tate's history, my speculation is consistent with things he has said and done)--I temper that with a degree of skepticism because I strongly suspect that, although he has held out an olive branch to try and do exactly what he said, it may very well have been on terms or in such a way that was unfair and offputting to the band. And as I'm typing this, I realize that I'm not articulating what I am thinking, but it's kind of hard to put into words. But I'm sure most of us have been in a situation where we were either part of or witnessed a particularly ugly fall-out with a friend, family member, or significant other who is very manipulative. And sometimes, that manipulative person may try to set up a reconciliation to mend fences, but then the one who was wronged realizes that although it may appear on its face to be a reconciliation, it is really the manipulator setting up a situation that is in actuality completely one-sided and isn't really a reconciliation at all. It's just the manipulator further manipulating to get his/her own closure at the expense of the other person/people. Does that make sense? And what I'm saying is that it would not surprise me if Geoff's calls to just get together and hash it out smelled a lot to the rest of the band as that type of situation, causing them to reject it for that very reason. I could be very well off base here, but that type of scenario seems likely given the players and their history.
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bosk,
Reading your last paragraph, I get it, and I share the skepticism to a degree. But I just believe him this time. Just a feeling.
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*cues up More Than a Feeling*
:biggrin:
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No one is blameless in the whole QR debacle. It's a team effort and all are responsible. Tate was just one of the major catalysts of the downward spiral.
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The moral of the story is: Never, ever, let family members influence your band.
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I'm not sure morale had anything to do with it.
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The moral of the story is: Never, ever, let family members influence your band.
That happens in every band to some extent. and Scott's wife was just as involved in some ways, and the other guys wives influenced how much time they would give to the studio and for that matter Chris left the band period due to his wife and family.
the moral in this band is " its good to have 2 good song writers not one who left in 97 and a great singer who is left with too much responsibility during a crisis" and during a changing rock climate as hair bands were no longer cool as grunge was coming in.
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No one is blameless in the whole QR debacle. It's a team effort and all are responsible. Tate was just one of the major catalysts of the downward spiral.
so true and again nobody has the facts but the members, nobody knows ,,all we saw was the explosion of anger and the aftermath and spin. even the depos are not true facts as they are only what each wanted to say and use as their position by coached lawyers.
lets face it this band is fully destroyed and the name QR is just a ghost, the reality is Tate brings the most QR "feel and experience" to the stage for those who want to have that feel again, NU QR is some sort of "attempted throw back " but to me is nothing like QR as its so rushed and shrill and Latorre does not even capture the artistry and the rest of the band to me brings no real stardom to behold. I wish they hung it up about 10 years ago on a good note
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I wish they hung it up about 23 years ago on a good note
Fixed the date for ya.
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I wish they hung it up about 23 years ago on a good note
Fixed the date for ya.
LOL
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Looking at where they are at right now, it's very easy to see what went wrong between them.
To put it politely, Geoff is not a very pleasant person. If he were a singer/songwriter, just him and his guitar, that would be alright, but in order to source new material to tour on, he has to work with other people. He got one taste of acclaim and power in the recent year or two - people judging his projects less harshly, praising his voice in Avantasia, Frontiers set him up with a songwriter for a project that is right in his wheelhouse, and what does he do? Immediately starts lashing out, taking shots and burning bridges. I don't know who will be willing to work with him after this - any label larger than Frontiers certainly isn't gonna give him project proposals, they were the last ones.
On the other hand, Wilton and Rockenfield are just so incredibly passive. Scott's situation, and the band's financial situation, is certainly complicated enough for this problem with Scott to arise. But the path they're taking towards solving that problem is literally the most passive one they can take. They won't even log into their Facebook to type out a statement that mitigates the damage from Todd unintentionally yet constantly revealing bits of information he probably shouldn't be revealing, let alone take steps towards figuring out how he can be 100% in the band or 100% out. They should be de facto leaders, principle music writers and spokespeople of the band, but they are not. If Todd leaves, they are toast. Forget complaining about how the music isn't 100% Queensryche; there might not be any music at all very soon. And that's a shame.
It is tricky to assign blame when a situation literally devolves into abuse, both verbal and physical, like it did with Geoff. No way the victims are to blame for being abused. And bravo for them pulling out of it as well as they did. But codependency, that was in place way before the abuse, is a two-way street.
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Looking at where they are at right now, it's very easy to see what went wrong between them.
To put it politely, Geoff is not a very pleasant person. If he were a singer/songwriter, just him and his guitar, that would be alright, but in order to source new material to tour on, he has to work with other people. He got one taste of acclaim and power in the recent year or two - people judging his projects less harshly, praising his voice in Avantasia, Frontiers set him up with a songwriter for a project that is right in his wheelhouse, and what does he do? Immediately starts lashing out, taking shots and burning bridges. I don't know who will be willing to work with him after this - any label larger than Frontiers certainly isn't gonna give him project proposals, they were the last ones.
On the other hand, Wilton and Rockenfield are just so incredibly passive. Scott's situation, and the band's financial situation, is certainly complicated enough for this problem with Scott to arise. But the path they're taking towards solving that problem is literally the most passive one they can take. They won't even log into their Facebook to type out a statement that mitigates the damage from Todd unintentionally yet constantly revealing bits of information he probably shouldn't be revealing, let alone take steps towards figuring out how he can be 100% in the band or 100% out. They should be de facto leaders, principle music writers and spokespeople of the band, but they are not. If Todd leaves, they are toast. Forget complaining about how the music isn't 100% Queensryche; there might not be any music at all very soon. And that's a shame.
It is tricky to assign blame when a situation literally devolves into abuse, both verbal and physical, like it did with Geoff. No way the victims are to blame for being abused. And bravo for them pulling out of it as well as they did. But codependency, that was in place way before the abuse, is a two-way street.
Great post but there are "no victims " and the band is just as guilty as Geoff and maybe even more so ,Geoff is just the most wild and articulate at the same time, and Geoff is a great guy in reality as most of the true fans know...
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Geoff is a great guy in reality as most of the true fans know...
It's easy to be nice to a fan (and even then, he hasn't always succeeded in that). The real test of greatness is how decent you can be to someone who isn't in the same space as you to kiss your ass, but to get something done.
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I wish they hung it up about 23 years ago on a good note
Fixed the date for ya.
Just before the release of HITNF. Sounds about right.
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Geoff is a great guy in reality as most of the true fans know...
Doesn't matter how many times you make this claim, most fans know that this is the furthest thing from the truth as has already been refuted multiple times in this thread. So do everyone a favor and stop acting like this:
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mvcommunitycovenant.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F2%2F1%2F3%2F12132870%2Fpublished%2Flalala.png%3F1493328802&hash=80c3c4f164bf8b478b17ddfdd770c906e6a6b06d)
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Geoff is a great guy in reality as most of the true fans know...
It's easy to be nice to a fan (and even then, he hasn't always succeeded in that). The real test of greatness is how decent you can be to someone who isn't in the same space as you to kiss your ass, but to get something done.
I wont get into detaisl but the reailty is Geoff is one of the nicer rockstars and Ive witnessed him be very kind, over and over. its a shame so many spread nonsense and hate on him
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Geoff is a great guy in reality as most of the true fans know...
Doesn't matter how many times you make this claim, most fans know that this is the furthest thing from the truth as has already been refuted multiple times in this thread. So do everyone a favor and stop acting like this:
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mvcommunitycovenant.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F2%2F1%2F3%2F12132870%2Fpublished%2Flalala.png%3F1493328802&hash=80c3c4f164bf8b478b17ddfdd770c906e6a6b06d)
sorry ... its you who is actually wrong on this and I KNOW the long times fans all know Geoff is a great guy. a small group that have had issues is far from the majority. this "thread" proves nothing ,
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Geoff is a great guy in reality as most of the true fans know...
Doesn't matter how many times you make this claim, most fans know that this is the furthest thing from the truth as has already been refuted multiple times in this thread. So do everyone a favor and stop acting like this:
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mvcommunitycovenant.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F2%2F1%2F3%2F12132870%2Fpublished%2Flalala.png%3F1493328802&hash=80c3c4f164bf8b478b17ddfdd770c906e6a6b06d)
Exactly this. EPICVIEW, you have stated your opinion. And you have done so repeatedly now, without adding anything new. Your ignoring of facts and repeating the same thing over and over again is simply trolling at this point, which you have been warned about in the past. Knock it off.
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So aside from all the drama from the previous 100 or more posts, lol! :lol
I just bought tickets to see Queensryche Sept 7. Has anybody seen them on this tour or planning to catch a show. I really like their new album and I'm willing to give them a chance live. Tickets were only $30.00 each so I'm sure it will be worth it.
I know, no Geoff or Scott but I'm ok with that and I like Wilton.
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They're also playing a set with a lot of Todd Era songs. Finally.
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They're also playing a set with a lot of Todd Era songs. Finally.
Nice, that's what I was hoping for. :tup
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huh.
posted on August 21st....
Eddie Trunk
@EddieTrunk
Just had a long phone chat w/ @queensryche
drummer & old friend Scott Rockenfield. He’s indeed alive & well & it was great catching up. As soon as he’s ready he will be coming on #TrunkNation to check in & say what he’s up to. Maybe next month. More soon!
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posted on August 21st....
Just had a long phone chat w/ @queensryche drummer & old friend Scott Rockenfield. He’s indeed alive & well & it was great catching up. As soon as he’s ready he will be coming on #TrunkNation to check in & say what he’s up to. Maybe next month. More soon!
Still not holding my breath.
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huh.
posted on August 21st....
Eddie Trunk
@EddieTrunk
Just had a long phone chat w/ @queensryche
drummer & old friend Scott Rockenfield. He’s indeed alive & well & it was great catching up. As soon as he’s ready he will be coming on #TrunkNation to check in & say what he’s up to. Maybe next month. More soon!
Eddie Trunk is a name dropping douchebag.
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"and old friend". Dio's been passed now for nine years, and we're STILL hearing how he was "close friends" with Dio. You know, for someone who is an "old friend" to so many rock stars, he gets shit information. I don't believe that he's sitting on all this info, either.
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I dont know what it is about Eddie trunk but he has always seems like a dude who is desperate to gain as much spotlight from his celebrity friends as possible.
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I dont know what it is about Eddie trunk but he has always seems like a dude who is desperate to gain as much spotlight from his celebrity friends as possible.
Because he has no merit on his own? :P
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I dont know what it is about Eddie trunk but he has always seems like a dude who is desperate to gain as much spotlight from his celebrity friends as possible.
A podcast I listen to (The Classic Metal Show), usually has a segment on, or at the very least a mention of, Eddie Trunk every few weeks. They have a bumper where they play "I, Me, Mine" from The Beatles with drops of Eddie saying "I", "me" and "my" to the song. Hilarious! I listen to ET. As a North Jersey kid born and bred, I've been listening to him for over 30 years. Hell, I occasionally see him in the supermarket before Sunday Giants kick-off. But, I have to admit that I'm definitely less tolerant of his name dropping since TCMS brought it to the forefront. How many times do we need to hear about him being responsible for the reunion of Twisted Sister or his part in the creation of The Winery Dogs. And, his constant b*tching about people playing to tracks. Enough already!
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His Ace/Peter sycophancy is just as big a problem, IMO.
(And don't forget! He signed Ace Frehley to Megaforce Records! What an eye for talent!)
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Eddie Trunk is a great guy in reality as most of the true fans know...
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He's not a bad interviewer, though. ;)
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Could this stuff about Eddie Trunk be more relevant?
(https://i.imgur.com/qUCidW6.png)
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Could this stuff about Eddie Trunk be more relevant?
(https://i.imgur.com/qUCidW6.png)
I assume this is who he is talking about..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/neal-casal-guitarist-who-worked-with-willie-nelson-shooter-jennings-dead-at-50/ar-AAGoXtf?li=BBnbfcL
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He's not a bad interviewer, though. ;)
Agreed.
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He's not a bad interviewer, though. ;)
Agreed.
The annoying thing about Trunk is he doesn’t stop talking about himself in the interviews. Doesn’t let the interview flow naturally and its very disruptive. Sometime its borderline disrespectful.
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He's not a bad interviewer, though. ;)
Agreed.
The annoying thing about Trunk is he doesn’t stop talking about himself in the interviews. Doesn’t let the interview flow naturally and its very disruptive. Sometime its borderline disrespectful.
Absolutely. He cuts off guests/callers quite frequently. There have been plenty of times where guests start talking about something and he cuts them off if they're not discussing his specific talking point, no matter how interesting their subject might be.
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Saw Queensryche last night at Clearwater casino near Seattle. This was an easy one for me since I didn't have to catch a ferry boat to Seattle.
They put on an amazing show, with great sound and good lighting/screen graphics. I was really impressed with Todd's vocals, he was killing it the whole night! Wilton was in top form on guitar and all the back-up vocal harmonies were spot on.
It was a really fun/ laid back show with a positive vibe yet high energy at the same time. They also played a lot of songs off of their new album that translated really well. They also pulled some gems out such as Take Hold of the Flame, and Queen of the Ryche, and a couple songs from Operation Mindcrime and Empire.
I would highly recommend seeing them if they come to your area. Queensryche is alive and well even though they are playing smaller venues. :tup :tup
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Agreed! I saw them back in March and was really impressed. I've seen Queensryche so many times, but this one stood out because they wisely incorporated more recent material into the set. And I know it's only September, but to me The Verdict is the best album of the year so far
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He's not a bad interviewer, though. ;)
Agreed.
Sorry to derail again, but Trunk is not bad, but he's not really good either. For all he spouts about "honesty" and how "honest" he is, and the way he keeps it "honest", his "honest" is just "his opinion", which almost never really contradicts who he's talking with. There's nothing "honest" about it. So when he goes into interviews, sure, with some of his buddies he'll ask the tough(er) question, but if it's not... he's kissing ass just like everyone else. I'm not sure he coaxed anything revelatory out of Axl, and he can't get interviews someone at his (alleged) level should be able to (Ozzy, Kiss, Van Halen).
Why I talked about the "honest", is because HE'LL tell you he can't get Ozzy, Kiss, and EVH because he's "friends" with Dio, Ace/Peter and Sammy and that he's just been too "honest" about those relationships. "Honest" has been pimping Dio since he died, hanging out and listening to Ace and Peter's whining about "replacements" and karoake and not being cut into the pie, and giving a platform for Sammy to claim "I'd do a reunion if Ed and Alex wanted to, but I called them for their birthday and they never called back!" while he goes on to trash Al and Ed.
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That and other tensions really got to Chris and Chris left. I blogged about this last year and did my best to cover the Chris departure(s) from a speculative point of view -- http://anybodylistening.net/whychrisdegarmoleft.html. That may give some of you that aren't really familiar with the history some insight to what may have happened.
Hey Samsara - I arrived at this party a bit late, and tried today to check out your blog post about DeGarmo, but I'm getting a 404 error. Has the Anybodylistening site been put out to pasture, or is something temporarily wrong?
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Samsara also did an amazing Queensryche discography thread two years ago and described the situation very well here:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=50337.msg2341674#msg2341674
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QR Touring News for 2020
January 17 - Ft Lauderdale, FL - Culture Room
January 18 - St Petersburg, FL - Jannus Live
January 19 - Jacksonville, FL - Florida Theatre
January 23 - Houston, TX – House of Blues
January 24 - San Antonio, TX – Aztec Theater
January 25 - Dallas, TX - House of Blues
January 28 - Phoenix, AZ - Marquee
January 29 - San Diego, CA - Music Box
January 30 - Anaheim, CA - House of Blues
January 31 - San Francisco, CA - Slims
February 4 - Portland, OR - Crystal Ballroom
February 5 - Seattle, WA - Neptune
February 7 - Denver, CO - Ogden
February 8 - Kansas City, MO - Knuckleheads*
February 9 - St Louis, MO - Delmar*
February 12 - Grand Rapids, MI - 20 Monroe
February 13 - Detroit, MI - St Andrew's Hall*
February 14 - Pittsburgh, PA - Roxian Theatre
February 15 - Sayerville, NJ - Starland Ballroom
February 16 - Boston, MA - Big Night
February 19 - Glensdale, PA Keswick Theatre
February 20 - Baltimore, MD Baltimore Sound Stage*
February 21 - North Myrtle Beach, SC - House of Blues
February 22 - Charlotte, NC - The Underground*
February 26 - Atlanta, GA - Buckhead Theater*
February 27 - Orlando. FL - Plaza Live
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What is the * for?
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What is the * for?
John 5 is touring with them. * means John 5 won't be playing.
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Once again, no Canadian dates, and nothing near Western NY. :-\
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How far are you from Rochester (say, Rochester Airport)?
Also, for the Boston-area folk, what's "Big Night"?
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Never heard of it.
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How far are you from Rochester (say, Rochester Airport)?
Also, for the Boston-area folk, what's "Big Night"?
I guess it's a new venue run by Don Law.
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What is the * for?
John 5 is touring with them. * means John 5 won't be playing.
What? I'd go just for John 5.
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They are playing the Neptune in their hometown of Seattle? What's the capacity there, something like half of The Moore? Is that comparable to where they usually play here? It isn't a casino at least.
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They are playing the Neptune in their hometown of Seattle? What's the capacity there, something like half of The Moore? Is that comparable to where they usually play here? It isn't a casino at least.
I get the knee-jerk distaste for casinos. I really do. But honestly, when it comes to concert venues, they can be pretty good. There is a local one that has a few billboards around this area that regularly gets some pretty top-shelf acts to come play there. And the one in Reno where DT is playing is a FANTASTIC concert venue (although Jordan hates it).
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How far are you from Rochester (say, Rochester Airport)?
According to Google Maps, I'm 80 miles / 90 minutes from Rochester airport.
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The casino venue (Club Regent, Winnipeg) that I’ve seen a number of concerts has been a great experience. Every seat is a great view, great venue, respectful crowds, easy access for drinks etc.
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Once again, no Canadian dates, and nothing near Western NY. :-\
There is a May 1 date at Turning Stone Casino in Verona NY
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This will be the first time since my first time seeing Queensryche open for Def Leppard in 1988 that I am taking a hard pass on seeing them (I didn't even skip the cabaret debacle). The only thing that will change my mind is the inclusion of one or both songs from The Warning that remain on my "songs never heard live that I want to see performed" list - Deliverance and No Sanctuary. They got me through the door the last three times because of solid opening acts (once with Armored Saint and twice earlier this year with Fates Warning), but with no opener that I am interested in, money will be saved when the band comes through Baltimore in February...
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Sorry for the slight detour - but Samsara, thanks for your PM regarding my questions about anybodylistening.net. I tried to respond to you but it looks like you've got PM's blocked - so here's an abridged version just in case you happen to see it here...
I've been a Queensryche fan since the late 80's, and I fondly remember the Screaming In Digital Usenet days, and how that evolved into message boards / websites as the years went on. So I've poked around your site many times over the years, and I was excited to see that some of it was still available - thanks for all of the work you've done there (and continue to do).
And the whole "Discography" QR thread was a *great* read - really took me back once I got to the points (Mindcrime and beyond) where I had become a fan, and reading your insights about what was happening "behind the scenes" was full of great info. It re-stoked my love for the original line-up, and I've probably listened to more 'Ryche in the last month than the last 10 years as a result.
Thanks again!
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Hey. You're welcome. And as you know, I fixed my PM settings. Glad you enjoyed the discography thread and the website. That thread was built off the website's history/discography section for the original lineup. Glad everything got you pumped about Queensryche's original lineup again. By far and away, my favorite musical entity of all time. That catalog of music never gets old to listen to.
You and I became fans roughly at the same time (I was 87-88, right before MC, I believe, or it could have just been released, I forget - I know RFO was what I heard first). Screaming in Digital was incredible for the time. Dan Birchall was great. AnybodyListening.net's current form is somewhat patterned after it, just expanded a little. Have a great weekend.
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Been on a Promised Land binge lately. Hard to believe the record was 25 years old in October. I had some thoughts about the album this week, and wrote about it. If interested, check it out here -
http://anybodylistening.net/promisedland-25.html
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Been on a Promised Land binge lately. Hard to believe the record was 25 years old in October. I had some thoughts about the album this week, and wrote about it. If interested, check it out here -
http://anybodylistening.net/promisedland-25.html
Interesting. I liked this passage:
"Having reached the pinnacle of commercial success with 1990’s Empire, Tate and DeGarmo exorcise the personal demons accumulated through Queensryche’s decade-plus rise to stardom. It’s a surprisingly brutal and honest account from a band once regarded as deeply secretive. …..But it’s clear the road to Queensryche’s success was littered with difficult choices, and a tinge of regret."
Sam, I have a question, and I'm not sure if you know the answer or not.
Are you familiar at all with the recording schedule? In other words, is none of it rushed? Is some of it rushed? Was it recorded on or before schedule?
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Been on a Promised Land binge lately. Hard to believe the record was 25 years old in October. I had some thoughts about the album this week, and wrote about it. If interested, check it out here -
http://anybodylistening.net/promisedland-25.html
Interesting. I liked this passage:
"Having reached the pinnacle of commercial success with 1990’s Empire, Tate and DeGarmo exorcise the personal demons accumulated through Queensryche’s decade-plus rise to stardom. It’s a surprisingly brutal and honest account from a band once regarded as deeply secretive. …..But it’s clear the road to Queensryche’s success was littered with difficult choices, and a tinge of regret."
Sam, I have a question, and I'm not sure if you know the answer or not.
Are you familiar at all with the recording schedule? In other words, is none of it rushed? Is some of it rushed? Was it recorded on or before schedule?
Not specifically. Just what's generally known. They took the rest of 1992 off after the April 1992 MTV Unplugged and June 1992 Rock the Environment benefit. They reconvened in 1993, which is when (if I am remembering right) Real World was recorded. But my guess is, a lot of their personal stuff went on in 1993, and they ended up at Big Log in spring 1994. Again, all a guess, given the release date of PL.
I can check the liner notes to see if there is anything more definitive when I get home, but that's really all I know.
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I seem to vaguely recall something along the lines of Jimbo having to really push them to get it all done under the deadline, and that there was a lot of stop/start as members came and went. I got the impression that there was a lot of creativity going on, and lots of work getting done, but that it went down to the wire. I think that came from the Big Log documentary. But it has been a LONG time, so I may very well be misremembering.
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The first time I heard Promised Land, I got it from library and instantly loved it. I also really liked the CD booklet, with the big Trir˙che totem pole poster. After I bought the remastered album, I was bummed that it was not part of the package anymore. But last summer I ended up visiting a second hand record store and lo and behold, they had a copy of the original CD. Sold! :metal
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I seem to vaguely recall something along the lines of Jimbo having to really push them to get it all done under the deadline, and that there was a lot of stop/start as members came and went. I got the impression that there was a lot of creativity going on, and lots of work getting done, but that it went down to the wire. I think that came from the Big Log documentary. But it has been a LONG time, so I may very well be misremembering.
That's what I remember as well. If you remember, the footage shot of the band at Big Log was in the summer. So if that was Summer 1994 (and I think it was), that's cutting it close with an October 18, 1994 release date. Back then, the records HAD to be in like what, three months or more before release? Three months puts them at July 1994. So I am figuring they got it completed about then.
The other thing was "Someone Else?" That song was originally completed as the full band version, and then at the last minute at the end, they made the decision to record it just with piano and a vocal. My guess is, as we talked about for years on the old forum, was that tight timeline was why Tate didn't re-cut the vocals, and Jimbo simply cut up and put Tate's initial vocal from the electric version onto the piano version. But that's all that is -- a guess.
The first time I heard Promised Land, I got it from library and instantly loved it. I also really liked the CD booklet, with the big Trir˙che totem pole poster. After I bought the remastered album, I was bummed that it was not part of the package anymore. But last summer I ended up visiting a second hand record store and lo and behold, they had a copy of the original CD. Sold! :metal
I love the original insert too. :)
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ack then, the records HAD to be in like what, three months or more before release?
Yeah, I've heard it referred to as a "10-week cycle" from being in the can to getting it pressed, marketed, and distributed. No idea whether that is literal or just a general rule of thumb.
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Been on a Promised Land binge lately. Hard to believe the record was 25 years old in October. I had some thoughts about the album this week, and wrote about it. If interested, check it out here -
http://anybodylistening.net/promisedland-25.html
Nice write-up. :tup :tup
Queensryche might be the only band that is not in my top 20 bands/artists that has an album in my all-time top 20, and that album is Promised Land. A masterpiece in every way imaginable. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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The first time I heard Promised Land, I got it from library and instantly loved it. I also really liked the CD booklet, with the big Trir˙che totem pole poster. After I bought the remastered album, I was bummed that it was not part of the package anymore. But last summer I ended up visiting a second hand record store and lo and behold, they had a copy of the original CD. Sold! :metal
I have that Promised Land Totem Promotional poster hanging up in the basement. It's the only Queensryche poster worthy of being displayed. Also have The Hear In The Now Frontier Promo flats, but they sit on a shelf in the closet.
I don't think I ever finished that blasted game either. I was only ever able to find 4 totems. That is/was a really cool game.
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Promised Land was actually my first Queensryche album. Had literally never heard a single song by them and just bought it off a review and weirdly off someone in Dream Theater (who I’d also never heard of at that time) saying it was incredible. I thought it was patchy (still do) but loved some of the songs. I then went gradually backwards and it was Empire that made me fall in love with them before Mindcrime became my favourite album of all time. Shortly after I decided to give this Dream Theater band a listen and bought Images & Words which would go on to become my other favourite album of all time!
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I really love Promised Land
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Interview with Michael Wilton
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MtZhPFMPjtU&feature=youtu.be
Interesting tidbits about the future of Queensryche
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Plans for a new album sometime in 2021, cool!
It’s a bit weird that it seems that Scott’s situation is still undefined.
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I am fortunate to be a featured guest on Focus on Metal this week. The topic for Episode 445 was initially going to be Queensryche's Q2k. But after getting our "how did we become fans" discussion out of the way, we prefaced the Q2k talk by what led up to it. Namely talking about Hear in the Now Frontier and Chris DeGarmo's departure. It was a fun chat with Richie. He and Scott do a phenomenal job on these weekly podcasts.
Here's the link if you care to listen: http://focusonmetal.net/episodes (episode 445)
If you like what you hear, please consider subscribing to their podcasts. Some really good stuff on there.
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Listening now while I eat my lunch. Great job, Brian. It's a very fun listen. :)
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Listening now while I eat my lunch. Great job, Brian. It's a very fun listen. :)
Thanks Mike! It was a lot of fun. Hope to do some non-Queensryche stuff with them (and maybe some QR, we'll see) in the future. Good guys.
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Plans for a new album sometime in 2021, cool!
It’s a bit weird that it seems that Scott’s situation is still undefined.
Yeah, Wilton mentions he hopes they will line up the time with Zeuss (which is understandable, they like how his records sound) and doesn't mention Scott at all. That's dumb.
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Great podcast. Really enjoyed listening to that. It's kinda fun when you know one of the guys you are listening to. :biggrin:
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Great podcast. Really enjoyed listening to that. It's kinda fun when you know one of the guys you are listening to. :biggrin:
Thanks bosk!
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This isn’t strictly Queensr˙che but can’t see any mention of the last Avantasia album here which I recently was bought for Christmas. Geoff Tate gets bashed a lot (by me also) here, probably more for his actions than his talent but I have to admit he sounds great on this record, way better than I was expecting him to.
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??? Um...check the Avantasia thread. There was plenty of discussion.
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I did put Avantasia into the search and nothing much came up but found that thread now, thanks. Just thought it might have spilled over into the Queensr˙che thread as well given Tate’s involvement. Anyway it’s a decent album and, like I said, very impressed with Tate’s performance. Based on this alone, I would happily listen to another QR album with him singing, if the songs were any good of course!
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This isn’t strictly Queensr˙che but can’t see any mention of the last Avantasia album here which I recently was bought for Christmas. Geoff Tate gets bashed a lot (by me also) here, probably more for his actions than his talent but I have to admit he sounds great on this record, way better than I was expecting him to.
Agree. Seen him live twice in the last couple of years in a pub locally and his voice was in good shape. He didn’t seem to be too much of an arse either.
The question about a new QR album and Tate would have to be who writes it. The last few Tate QR albums were written by him and his mates, not QR. And the Mindcrime albums he’s done continue with that and they are shit. It would have to have the full participation of QR in the writing for me to even bother listening.
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This isn’t strictly Queensr˙che but can’t see any mention of the last Avantasia album here which I recently was bought for Christmas. Geoff Tate gets bashed a lot (by me also) here, probably more for his actions than his talent but I have to admit he sounds great on this record, way better than I was expecting him to.
Agree. Seen him live twice in the last couple of years in a pub locally and his voice was in good shape. He didn’t seem to be too much of an arse either.
The question about a new QR album and Tate would have to be who writes it. The last few Tate QR albums were written by him and his mates, not QR. And the Mindcrime albums he’s done continue with that and they are shit. It would have to have the full participation of QR in the writing for me to even bother listening.
But,,,, the "members" of what is called QR is only Wilton and Jackson and they are both very weak writers and they gave Latorre ful control on the writing, so I dont see how this could really work? nor would a CD of "whole band writing" is always an illusion w QR, back in the golden era it was really mostly Chris writing with Geoff , around Geoffs gift of a voice.
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Oh yeah, I’m not offering up any solutions here. Just saying that, if he could sing at that level for a whole album, I’d be ok with his vocals on a QR album. How they’d get over their differences, who could be relied upon to write some decent songs etc. is a completely different question to which I have no answer. I just kind of thought he was past it as a vocalist on this type of material and have been surprised to hear that, at least on record, he isn’t.
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They could keep Todd as drummer and back up for those notes Tate Cant reach but I don’t see it happening and don’t really want it to happen either. I’m happy with QR as they are today. A little variety in the writing wouldn’t go amiss, and an epic would be a plus.
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Neither band is putting out anything very good lately. But Queensryche's output overall since the split has been miles above anything with Tate's name on it since at least Q2K.
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Neither band is putting out anything very good lately. But Queensryche's output overall since the split has been miles above anything with Tate's name on it since at least Q2K.
How or why do think could this happen? (for context, I don't consider myself to be a massive QR fan, but I enjoyed everything up until say Promised Land. (and parts of OM2)
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I believe both Tate and whats called QR are "done" Tate Im glad is out having fun and singing, but both camps are done and just paying the bills,,,The DRAMA is better than the music !!!
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I enjoyed Condition Human and The Verdict... not mindblowing records but not bad. Just good Queensryche reminiscent of their glory days
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I enjoyed Condition Human and The Verdict... not mindblowing records but not bad. Just good Queensryche reminiscent of their glory days
I like both of them. I'll tell you that if I went into a coma in 1995, I would've never known there was any singer change.
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Hmm...I didn't really care for Verdict. I'll have to revisit it.
The DRAMA is better than the music !!!
There hasn't been drama in years.
Just for fun, my Queensryche top 10:
1. Empire
2. Promised Land
3. Mindcrime
4. Condition Human
5. Queensryche (2013)
6. Hear in the Now Frontier
7. Rage for Order
8. American Soldier
9. Warning
10. Mindcrime II
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I enjoyed Condition Human and The Verdict... not mindblowing records but not bad. Just good Queensryche reminiscent of their glory days
I like both of them. I'll tell you that if I went into a coma in 1995, I would've never known there was any singer change.
Same. There are a lot of moments on both of those (I haven't heard the self-titled yet somehow) that made me go "wow, that's SPOT ON Tate" - not easy to do.
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Hmm...I didn't really care for Verdict. I'll have to revisit it.
The DRAMA is better than the music !!!
There hasn't been drama in years.
Just for fun, my Queensryche top 10:
1. Empire
2. Promised Land
3. Mindcrime
4. Condition Human
5. Queensryche (2013)
6. Hear in the Now Frontier
7. Rage for Order
8. American Soldier
9. Warning
10. Mindcrime II
I disagree the band has still not announced that SRock is long gone and not coming back ( hes not ) and I smell more drama coming and after that drama ( when it happens) the music will still be luke warm forgettable stuff that will loosly sound like old QR ( because the fans seem to want samey stuff from them tho Tate and Chris hated to do the same stuff) and to me the NU QR is awful and meaningless and Tate tho talented and driven to me and I know this will not go voer well has not made a catchy good song since FU,,,,I liked FU, I liked the anger and the emotion on it and it had some great songs and to me will go down as the Final QR CD for better or worse, Latorre is so bad to me ears, I hate everything he touches and live QR is vapid and juvenile BS now, Id go see Tate just because hes a legend
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I don't get it... Todd sounds very similar to Tate on the new stuff. I don't get how someone could so strongly dislike him but enjoy Tate, but hey, different strokes.
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Oh look it’s that Geoff Tate fanboy who’s completely biased against new Queensryche.
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Hmm...I didn't really care for Verdict. I'll have to revisit it.
The DRAMA is better than the music !!!
There hasn't been drama in years.
Just for fun, my Queensryche top 10:
1. Empire
2. Promised Land
3. Mindcrime
4. Condition Human
5. Queensryche (2013)
6. Hear in the Now Frontier
7. Rage for Order
8. American Soldier
9. Warning
10. Mindcrime II
I disagree the band has still not announced that SRock is long gone and not coming back ( hes not ) and I smell more drama coming and after that drama ( when it happens) the music will still be luke warm forgettable stuff that will loosly sound like old QR ( because the fans seem to want samey stuff from them tho Tate and Chris hated to do the same stuff) and to me the NU QR is awful and meaningless and Tate tho talented and driven to me and I know this will not go voer well has not made a catchy good song since FU,,,,I liked FU, I liked the anger and the emotion on it and it had some great songs and to me will go down as the Final QR CD for better or worse, Latorre is so bad to me ears, I hate everything he touches and live QR is vapid and juvenile BS now, Id go see Tate just because hes a legend
It's nice to have you post on this forum with us Geoff.
-
Give our love to Susan.
:susantate:
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My top 10 (if I can get up to 10, we’ll see) is as follows:
Operation:Mindcrime
Empire
Rage For Order
The Warning
Promised Land
Self Titled (the album not the EP)
Condition Human
The Verdict
Q2K
Hear In The Now Frontier
-
Sure why not
#1. Promised Land
#2. Operation Mindcrime II
#3. Operation Mindcrime
#4. Empire
#5. Condition Human
#6. Rage For Order
#7. Q2K
#8. Tribe
#9. American Soldier
10. Queensryche 2013
11. The Warning / Queensryche 1983
12. The Verdict
13. Hear In The Now Frontier
14. the other one that doesn't exist
-
1. Promised land
2. Mindcrime I
3. Warning
4. Rage for order
5. Debut Self titled
6. Empire
7. Tribe
8. Mindcrime II
9. Condition Human
I rest I have heard in passing but haven't listened to them enough to rank
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1. Warning
2. Operation Mindcrime
3. EP
4. Rage For Order
5. Empire
6. The Verdict
7. Condition Human
8. S/T
9. Hear In The Now Frontier
….everything else...
-
1. Mindcrime
2. Warning
3. Empire
4. EP
5. Rage For Order
6. Promised Land
7. Tribe
8. Self titled
9. Hear in the Now Frontier
10. Condition Human
11. American Soldier
12. Mindcrime 2
13. The Verdict
14. Q2K
15. Dedicated to Chaos
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Is it possible (in this dimension of reality) to actually think that FU is a better record than any of the 3 records with LaTorre? Isn't that like anti-matter? Just goes to show, different strokes and all...I guess some people just like different things. :rollin
-
Give our love to Susan.
:susantate:
:lol
-
Is it possible (in this dimension of reality) to actually think that FU is a better record than any of the 3 records with LaTorre? Isn't that like anti-matter? Just goes to show, different strokes and all...I guess some people just like different things. :rollin
Yeah, I guess each to their own, but I gave FU a really good go and tried went in with an open mind. It's a horrible record. I don't mind the opening track at all, but the rest is just woeful.
-
Is it possible (in this dimension of reality) to actually think that FU is a better record than any of the 3 records with LaTorre? Isn't that like anti-matter? Just goes to show, different strokes and all...I guess some people just like different things. :rollin
Yeah, I guess each to their own, but I gave FU a really good go and tried went in with an open mind. It's a horrible record. I don't mind the opening track at all, but the rest is just woeful.
Yep, same opinion here.
-
Ranking all the ones I know:
1a. Operation Mindcrime
1b. Empire
1c. Rage For Order
2. The Verdict
3. Condition Human
4. Promised Land
5. Q2K
6. The Warning
7. Queensryche 2013
8. Hear In The Now Frontier
9. EP
10. American Soldier
11. Abomination Mindcrime II
12. Tribe
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The easy part:
1. Operation: mindcrime
2. Promised land
3. Rage for order
4. The Warning
5. Empire
The albums that are good, I guess:
6. Condition human
7. Hear in the now frontier
And then the rest gets difficult. The remaining two LaTorre albums are certainly not bad. There are some fine songs on Tribe and Q2K. American soldier is not to be completely thrown away. Dedicated to chaos, Mindcrime 2 and Frequency unknown might as well not exist.
-
1.Operation: Mindcrime
2.Rage For Order
3.Promised Land
4.Empire
5.Condition Human
6.Operation: Mindcrime II
7.Tribe
8.Selftitled
9.The Verdict
10.Hear In The Now Frontier
11.Warning
12.American Soldier
13.Ep
14.Q2K
15.Dedicated To Chaos
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1. Operation: Mindcrime
2. The Warning
3. Promised Land
4. Rage for Order
5. Empire
6. Tribe (original lineup tracks only) - Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, Art of Life, Doin Fine, Justified
7. EP
8. Hear in the Now Frontier
The rest:
1. American Soldier
2. Queensryche 2013
3. Q2k
4. Condition Human
The below, to me, just have echoes of the Queensryche sound:
5. The Verdict (not a bad record at all, just in the annals of Queensryche, it doesn't sound a lot like them)
6. Operation: Mindcrime II
7. Dedicated to Chaos
>>>>I don't consider F.U. to be a Queensryche record, despite what it is labeled as. Some promising tunes on it though.
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Oh look it’s that Geoff Tate fanboy who’s completely biased against new Queensryche.
Or just an objective real fan of the band since 1982 , whart did I say that was wrong or overly Tate loving, and yea I think most people only know Tate as QR and QR as w Tate, like Bruce w Maiden or Judas w Rob
-
Hmm...I didn't really care for Verdict. I'll have to revisit it.
The DRAMA is better than the music !!!
There hasn't been drama in years.
Just for fun, my Queensryche top 10:
1. Empire
2. Promised Land
3. Mindcrime
4. Condition Human
5. Queensryche (2013)
6. Hear in the Now Frontier
7. Rage for Order
8. American Soldier
9. Warning
10. Mindcrime II
I disagree the band has still not announced that SRock is long gone and not coming back ( hes not ) and I smell more drama coming and after that drama ( when it happens) the music will still be luke warm forgettable stuff that will loosly sound like old QR ( because the fans seem to want samey stuff from them tho Tate and Chris hated to do the same stuff) and to me the NU QR is awful and meaningless and Tate tho talented and driven to me and I know this will not go voer well has not made a catchy good song since FU,,,,I liked FU, I liked the anger and the emotion on it and it had some great songs and to me will go down as the Final QR CD for better or worse, Latorre is so bad to me ears, I hate everything he touches and live QR is vapid and juvenile BS now, Id go see Tate just because hes a legend
It's nice to have you post on this forum with us Geoff.
My pleasure shall we continue?
-
Is it possible (in this dimension of reality) to actually think that FU is a better record than any of the 3 records with LaTorre? Isn't that like anti-matter? Just goes to show, different strokes and all...I guess some people just like different things. :rollin
To me its not even close FU has real emotion and feel,,I actually love 5 song on it,,, I was impressed in many ways,, why would I like a solo Latorre CD under the QR moniker? none of his songs move me at all, they sound like bad Stryper for kids and the band is so limited in talent. I dont get why anyone would like NU QR, its total tripe
-
Oh look it’s that Geoff Tate fanboy who’s completely biased against new Queensryche.
Or just an objective real fan of the band since 1982
Nothing about your posts demonstrates any objectivity whatsoever. I don't think you understand what that words means.
-
Oh look it’s that Geoff Tate fanboy who’s completely biased against new Queensryche.
Or just an objective real fan of the band since 1982
Nothing about your posts demonstrates any objectivity whatsoever. I don't think you understand what that words means.
why because I think Latorre sucks? has a rancid BS voice? and Tate is QR? watching Nu QR live is so bad they should not have the QR name ,,, growls and blood, water drinking,,,shrieking off key and head bangin is not QR and Scotts not even on the last NU QR album and the drums are not up to par, if Tate had the QR name it would be lights out for Wilton and Jackson as nobody has ever gone to show to see those two, and nobody knew of Latorre until he was 40 years old and replacing Tate, its not like they got a great singer to replace Tate, 3/5 of the band is gone . Tate alone to me is HALF of QR solo ( Chris being the other half ) and after that Scott is the most missed and his skill was part of the what made QRs sound unique , Wilton has no style nor Jackson, those 2 objectively would be the easiest to replace as we see Tate do with ease . Chris and Tate are QR period ( especially with Scott gone ) IMO
-
1) RFO
2) EP
3) OMC
4) Warning
5) HITNF
6) Tribe
7) FU
8) Empire
9) Promised Land ( but this was the best tour)
10) Q2K
11) DTC
12) AS
-
Is it possible (in this dimension of reality) to actually think that FU is a better record than any of the 3 records with LaTorre? Isn't that like anti-matter? Just goes to show, different strokes and all...I guess some people just like different things. :rollin
To me its not even close FU has real emotion and feel,,I actually love 5 song on it,,, I was impressed in many ways,, why would I like a solo Latorre CD under the QR moniker? none of his songs move me at all, they sound like bad Stryper for kids and the band is so limited in talent. I dont get why anyone would like NU QR, its total tripe
I could understand not liking it QR with LaTorre. I can understand not liking LaTorre's voice as well. Valid subjective opinions. Where you completely lose all credibility is when claim things like "shrieking off key". From the YouTube videos I've seen with LaTorre he does a solid professional job rendering the vocals. I doubt that he's perfect 100% of the time, but the lion's share of the vocal performances I witnessed he has good pitch and doesn't sound off key.
[edit: To try not to sound like an asshole]
-
Oh look it’s that Geoff Tate fanboy who’s completely biased against new Queensryche.
Or just an objective real fan of the band since 1982
Nothing about your posts demonstrates any objectivity whatsoever. I don't think you understand what that words means.
why because I think Latorre sucks? has a rancid BS voice? and Tate is QR? watching Nu QR live is so bad they should not have the QR name ,,, growls and blood, water drinking,,,shrieking off key and head bangin is not QR and Scotts not even on the last NU QR album and the drums are not up to par, if Tate had the QR name it would be lights out for Wilton and Jackson as nobody has ever gone to show to see those two, and nobody knew of Latorre until he was 40 years old and replacing Tate, its not like they got a great singer to replace Tate, 3/5 of the band is gone . Tate alone to me is HALF of QR solo ( Chris being the other half ) and after that Scott is the most missed and his skill was part of the what made QRs sound unique , Wilton has no style nor Jackson, those 2 objectively would be the easiest to replace as we see Tate do with ease . Chris and Tate are QR period ( especially with Scott gone ) IMO
I want to throw this in there - while I do agree the posting of EPICVIEW is very...aggressive, I think it's understandable when another poster calls him "Geoff Tate fanboy." That isn't needed, and that poster was a bit out of line. EPICVIEW is sharing his opinion, even if it is very strong. Again, bosk, you or the mods may have addressed that privately, but I wanted to point that out.
In addressing the topic being discussed, I have a bit of a unique point of view. At first I thought La Torre's voice was perfect for the band, and I very publicly championed him. But his voice degraded quickly, either naturally, or by choice in terms of how he wanted to sing the songs, and I really don't enjoy listening to Todd sing much of the Tate material. There is this lack of depth and strength in Todd's voice that doesn't work for me, because that depth is really needed to sing some of that material, especially the stuff from Empire and Promised Land. But even older stuff like The Whisper and Queen of the Reich -- Todd screams notes now, instead of what he did earlier by hitting stuff cleanly and holding it. It may be more "him," but I think it destroys some of the vocal nuance of the tunes - they were special because of nuances like what Tate did. (Not to mention DeGarmo -- I miss the vocal harmonies.) And that is gone.
And tonally, I have always preferred the richness of Tate's voice to Todd's. Todd just naturally has a thinner voice. I'm not going to be as aggressive as EPICVIEW about Todd. I don't enjoy listening to La Torre on the material before his time with the band (for the most part, there are some that he does an amazing job on). But I think the original material La Torre has done with the band, which fits his voice, is very good both on record, and from what I can tell on YouTube, live (I saw the TLT-fronted QR probably seven times, but haven't seen them since Dec. 2013).
Like EPICVIEW, I think Queensryche was very much defined by the collaboration and style choices of DeGarmo and Tate. Rockenfield's drumming and Wilton's heavier riffs were also very key to the sound, and Ed Bass is distinct as well. "Queensryche," was very much the sum of its parts, and more like that than most bands. But when it comes down to it, without DeGarmo and Tate, you don't have the heart and soul of the band and its creative distinction. And while post-DeGarmo QR records have their moments (as well as post-Tate records), it is, at least to my ears, a very different band. And not one I'm as big on.
From a live perspective, Casey does an outstanding job on the drums, but his style is very different from Scott, and it HAS taken away from the classic QR sound even more live. That said, I think Casey, Parker, and La Torre all deserve credit for doing an admirable job. It's just not for me. It's not the same band, both in how they sound, and creatively. And it really hasn't been since Chris left, if we're being fully honest.
-
I want to throw this in there - while I do agree the posting of EPICVIEW is very...aggressive, I think it's understandable when another poster calls him "Geoff Tate fanboy." That isn't needed, and that poster was a bit out of line. EPICVIEW is sharing his opinion, even if it is very strong. Again, bosk, you or the mods may have addressed that privately, but I wanted to point that out.
In addressing the topic being discussed, I have a bit of a unique point of view. At first I thought La Torre's voice was perfect for the band, and I very publicly championed him. But his voice degraded quickly, either naturally, or by choice in terms of how he wanted to sing the songs, and I really don't enjoy listening to Todd sing much of the Tate material. There is this lack of depth and strength in Todd's voice that doesn't work for me, because that depth is really needed to sing some of that material, especially the stuff from Empire and Promised Land. But even older stuff like The Whisper and Queen of the Reich -- Todd screams notes now, instead of what he did earlier by hitting stuff cleanly and holding it. It may be more "him," but I think it destroys some of the vocal nuance of the tunes - they were special because of nuances like what Tate did. (Not to mention DeGarmo -- I miss the vocal harmonies.) And that is gone.
And tonally, I have always preferred the richness of Tate's voice to Todd's. Todd just naturally has a thinner voice. I'm not going to be as aggressive as EPICVIEW about Todd. I don't enjoy listening to La Torre on the material before his time with the band (for the most part, there are some that he does an amazing job on). But I think the original material La Torre has done with the band, which fits his voice, is very good both on record, and from what I can tell on YouTube, live (I saw the TLT-fronted QR probably seven times, but haven't seen them since Dec. 2013).
Like EPICVIEW, I think Queensryche was very much defined by the collaboration and style choices of DeGarmo and Tate. Rockenfield's drumming and Wilton's heavier riffs were also very key to the sound, and Ed Bass is distinct as well. "Queensryche," was very much the sum of its parts, and more like that than most bands. But when it comes down to it, without DeGarmo and Tate, you don't have the heart and soul of the band and its creative distinction. And while post-DeGarmo QR records have their moments (as well as post-Tate records), it is, at least to my ears, a very different band. And not one I'm as big on.
From a live perspective, Casey does an outstanding job on the drums, but his style is very different from Scott, and it HAS taken away from the classic QR sound even more live. That said, I think Casey, Parker, and La Torre all deserve credit for doing an admirable job. It's just not for me. It's not the same band, both in how they sound, and creatively. And it really hasn't been since Chris left, if we're being fully honest.
:tup This post OTOH sounds totally fair and reasonable.
-
Is it possible (in this dimension of reality) to actually think that FU is a better record than any of the 3 records with LaTorre? Isn't that like anti-matter? Just goes to show, different strokes and all...I guess some people just like different things. :rollin
To me its not even close FU has real emotion and feel,,I actually love 5 song on it,,, I was impressed in many ways,, why would I like a solo Latorre CD under the QR moniker? none of his songs move me at all, they sound like bad Stryper for kids and the band is so limited in talent. I dont get why anyone would like NU QR, its total tripe
I could understand not liking it QR with LaTorre. I can understand not liking LaTorre's voice as well. Valid subjective opinions. Where you completely lose all credibility is when claim things like "shrieking off key". From the YouTube videos I've seen with LaTorre he does a solid professional job rendering the vocals. I doubt that he's perfect 100% of the time, but the lion's share of the vocal performances I witnessed he has good pitch and doesn't sound off key.
[edit: To try not to sound like an asshole]
LOL go watch any NU QR live video then give me a jingle....
-
At first I thought La Torre's voice was perfect for the band, and I very publicly championed him. But his voice degraded quickly, either naturally, or by choice in terms of how he wanted to sing the songs, and I really don't enjoy listening to Todd sing much of the Tate material. There is this lack of depth and strength in Todd's voice that doesn't work for me, because that depth is really needed to sing some of that material, especially the stuff from Empire and Promised Land. But even older stuff like The Whisper and Queen of the Reich -- Todd screams notes now, instead of what he did earlier by hitting stuff cleanly and holding it. It may be more "him," but I think it destroys some of the vocal nuance of the tunes - they were special because of nuances like what Tate did. (Not to mention DeGarmo -- I miss the vocal harmonies.) And that is gone.
And tonally, I have always preferred the richness of Tate's voice to Todd's. Todd just naturally has a thinner voice. I'm not going to be as aggressive as EPICVIEW about Todd. I don't enjoy listening to La Torre on the material before his time with the band (for the most part, there are some that he does an amazing job on). But I think the original material La Torre has done with the band, which fits his voice, is very good both on record, and from what I can tell on YouTube, live (I saw the TLT-fronted QR probably seven times, but haven't seen them since Dec. 2013).
For the record, I still like LaTorre's voice. But I agree with you on the difference between the two, and just wanted to chime in with perhaps a different way of describing it. To go off on a bit of a tangent for a second: When Stone joined the band on guitar, the main critique that eventually surfaced and gained traction with a lot of fans was his shrill guitar tone. There was just something about the combination of his guitar tone itself through the guitars and gear, and the way he played those notes, that even when his note choices on the classic material were "correct" in terms of copying the original material, some fans (myself included) found his sound to be grating and not quite right. I think that with Todd, in some ways, it's a similar kind of thing. It think it was a lot easier to overlook when he first joined the band because (1) his range and power were such a stark contrast with recent history and Tate having lost his range and power long before, so it was a welcome change and considered by many to be a welcome "return to form" for the band from a vocal perspective, (2) fans of the old-school material were just so awe-struck by the fact that the band were actually playing those old songs again, and that the singer could do them justice, and (3) as Samsara pointed out, Todd's vocals had not yet degraded to where they are now, and he was singing them differently than he does now. That has all changed a bit, and I think that the changes and the wearing off of the novelty factor have made the differences between Todd's and Tate's voices more pronounced to a lot of fans, much how, despite Stone being so welcomed after Kelly's departure, the longer he was in the band, the less the fanbase liked his sound and what he brought to the table.
Hopefully, that makes nearly as much sense written down as it did in my head. :lol
-
Oh look it’s that Geoff Tate fanboy who’s completely biased against new Queensryche.
Or just an objective real fan of the band since 1982
Nothing about your posts demonstrates any objectivity whatsoever. I don't think you understand what that words means.
why because I think Latorre sucks? has a rancid BS voice? and Tate is QR? watching Nu QR live is so bad they should not have the QR name ,,, growls and blood, water drinking,,,shrieking off key and head bangin is not QR and Scotts not even on the last NU QR album and the drums are not up to par, if Tate had the QR name it would be lights out for Wilton and Jackson as nobody has ever gone to show to see those two, and nobody knew of Latorre until he was 40 years old and replacing Tate, its not like they got a great singer to replace Tate, 3/5 of the band is gone . Tate alone to me is HALF of QR solo ( Chris being the other half ) and after that Scott is the most missed and his skill was part of the what made QRs sound unique , Wilton has no style nor Jackson, those 2 objectively would be the easiest to replace as we see Tate do with ease . Chris and Tate are QR period ( especially with Scott gone ) IMO
I want to throw this in there - while I do agree the posting of EPICVIEW is very...aggressive, I think it's understandable when another poster calls him "Geoff Tate fanboy." That isn't needed, and that poster was a bit out of line. EPICVIEW is sharing his opinion, even if it is very strong. Again, bosk, you or the mods may have addressed that privately, but I wanted to point that out.
In addressing the topic being discussed, I have a bit of a unique point of view. At first I thought La Torre's voice was perfect for the band, and I very publicly championed him. But his voice degraded quickly, either naturally, or by choice in terms of how he wanted to sing the songs, and I really don't enjoy listening to Todd sing much of the Tate material. There is this lack of depth and strength in Todd's voice that doesn't work for me, because that depth is really needed to sing some of that material, especially the stuff from Empire and Promised Land. But even older stuff like The Whisper and Queen of the Reich -- Todd screams notes now, instead of what he did earlier by hitting stuff cleanly and holding it. It may be more "him," but I think it destroys some of the vocal nuance of the tunes - they were special because of nuances like what Tate did. (Not to mention DeGarmo -- I miss the vocal harmonies.) And that is gone.
And tonally, I have always preferred the richness of Tate's voice to Todd's. Todd just naturally has a thinner voice. I'm not going to be as aggressive as EPICVIEW about Todd. I don't enjoy listening to La Torre on the material before his time with the band (for the most part, there are some that he does an amazing job on). But I think the original material La Torre has done with the band, which fits his voice, is very good both on record, and from what I can tell on YouTube, live (I saw the TLT-fronted QR probably seven times, but haven't seen them since Dec. 2013).
Like EPICVIEW, I think Queensryche was very much defined by the collaboration and style choices of DeGarmo and Tate. Rockenfield's drumming and Wilton's heavier riffs were also very key to the sound, and Ed Bass is distinct as well. "Queensryche," was very much the sum of its parts, and more like that than most bands. But when it comes down to it, without DeGarmo and Tate, you don't have the heart and soul of the band and its creative distinction. And while post-DeGarmo QR records have their moments (as well as post-Tate records), it is, at least to my ears, a very different band. And not one I'm as big on.
From a live perspective, Casey does an outstanding job on the drums, but his style is very different from Scott, and it HAS taken away from the classic QR sound even more live. That said, I think Casey, Parker, and La Torre all deserve credit for doing an admirable job. It's just not for me. It's not the same band, both in how they sound, and creatively. And it really hasn't been since Chris left, if we're being fully honest.
Thank You Samsara,,,, I agree with your post ,
I dont think Im "aggressive " in my posts LOL I just state how I feel ,MY OPINION, and thank you recognizing that, it seem to be if one does not like Latorre or think its real QR that its "fanboyism of Tate" and its not, QR is TATE, CHRIS, and then SCOTT to all the old time fans ,,, and no "cool light show with the lyrics" will change that
-
For the record, I still like LaTorre's voice. But I agree with you on the difference between the two, and just wanted to chime in with perhaps a different way of describing it. To go off on a bit of a tangent for a second: When Stone joined the band on guitar, the main critique that eventually surfaced and gained traction with a lot of fans was his shrill guitar tone. There was just something about the combination of his guitar tone itself through the guitars and gear, and the way he played those notes, that even when his note choices on the classic material were "correct" in terms of copying the original material, some fans (myself included) found his sound to be grating and not quite right. I think that with Todd, in some ways, it's a similar kind of thing. It think it was a lot easier to overlook when he first joined the band because (1) his range and power were such a stark contrast with recent history and Tate having lost his range and power long before, so it was a welcome change and considered by many to be a welcome "return to form" for the band from a vocal perspective, (2) fans of the old-school material were just so awe-struck by the fact that the band were actually playing those old songs again, and that the singer could do them justice, and (3) as Samsara pointed out, Todd's vocals had not yet degraded to where they are now, and he was singing them differently than he does now. That has all changed a bit, and I think that the changes and the wearing off of the novelty factor have made the differences between Todd's and Tate's voices more pronounced to a lot of fans, much how, despite Stone being so welcomed after Kelly's departure, the longer he was in the band, the less the fanbase liked his sound and what he brought to the table.
Hopefully, that makes nearly as much sense written down as it did in my head. :lol
On Stone, to his credit, after a couple of tour cycles, he changed his tone a bit and wasn't nearly as shrill. I wasn't a big fan of Stone's playing and tone either at first. But once he changed it a bit, I really enjoyed his playing. I think it was that Judas Priest/QR tour in 2005, when QR did the old school metal set, where I really found an appreciation for Stone and became a fan of his. But those first few years, that tone was like nails on a chalkboard. :lol
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LOL go watch any NU QR live video then give me a jingle....
But that's the thing...I did and he sounds like a very competent singer, in key and in pitch -- at least the ones I saw. Did he get bad more recently? (as Samsara suggests) or do you always think he sang poorly?
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As far as key and pitch, he has almost always been on point (barring shows where he is sick). His tone and timbre are a different matter. But some people can't seem to get past their own biases to see that. (and I'm NOT talking about Samsara)
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I have a hot take.
Todd LaTorre is a singer.
-
At first I thought La Torre's voice was perfect for the band, and I very publicly championed him. But his voice degraded quickly, either naturally, or by choice in terms of how he wanted to sing the songs, and I really don't enjoy listening to Todd sing much of the Tate material. There is this lack of depth and strength in Todd's voice that doesn't work for me, because that depth is really needed to sing some of that material, especially the stuff from Empire and Promised Land. But even older stuff like The Whisper and Queen of the Reich -- Todd screams notes now, instead of what he did earlier by hitting stuff cleanly and holding it. It may be more "him," but I think it destroys some of the vocal nuance of the tunes - they were special because of nuances like what Tate did. (Not to mention DeGarmo -- I miss the vocal harmonies.) And that is gone.
And tonally, I have always preferred the richness of Tate's voice to Todd's. Todd just naturally has a thinner voice. I'm not going to be as aggressive as EPICVIEW about Todd. I don't enjoy listening to La Torre on the material before his time with the band (for the most part, there are some that he does an amazing job on). But I think the original material La Torre has done with the band, which fits his voice, is very good both on record, and from what I can tell on YouTube, live (I saw the TLT-fronted QR probably seven times, but haven't seen them since Dec. 2013).
For the record, I still like LaTorre's voice. But I agree with you on the difference between the two, and just wanted to chime in with perhaps a different way of describing it. To go off on a bit of a tangent for a second: When Stone joined the band on guitar, the main critique that eventually surfaced and gained traction with a lot of fans was his shrill guitar tone. There was just something about the combination of his guitar tone itself through the guitars and gear, and the way he played those notes, that even when his note choices on the classic material were "correct" in terms of copying the original material, some fans (myself included) found his sound to be grating and not quite right. I think that with Todd, in some ways, it's a similar kind of thing. It think it was a lot easier to overlook when he first joined the band because (1) his range and power were such a stark contrast with recent history and Tate having lost his range and power long before, so it was a welcome change and considered by many to be a welcome "return to form" for the band from a vocal perspective, (2) fans of the old-school material were just so awe-struck by the fact that the band were actually playing those old songs again, and that the singer could do them justice, and (3) as Samsara pointed out, Todd's vocals had not yet degraded to where they are now, and he was singing them differently than he does now. That has all changed a bit, and I think that the changes and the wearing off of the novelty factor have made the differences between Todd's and Tate's voices more pronounced to a lot of fans, much how, despite Stone being so welcomed after Kelly's departure, the longer he was in the band, the less the fanbase liked his sound and what he brought to the table.
Hopefully, that makes nearly as much sense written down as it did in my head. :lol
Your post makes total sense, many of the fans are real sticklers for "note for note" and both Kelly and Stone got hammered many times for "not getting it right" I was OK with them live for the most part, as the band was always into change etc and Tate and chris both love stripped down folk and grunge and to me anything post Chris was a gift and I was excited for Q2k and enjoyed the tour with Maiden and Halford etc, TODAY its become too watered down to swill and even trying to redo the old stuff perfect doesnt move me anymore, its all stale. IMO. Im not even sure what I want from Tate anymore, hes really given me so much to be proud of and to be a fan of he owes me nothing. I dont even want Chris to come back nor do I want Tate to return to the shambles of QR, Id be very happy if they all called it quits to be honest, but Latorre is awful and we see after 4 years his voice is crud and hes a complete butcher live and the whole band is awful to watch live ...I guess if i was 18 and never saw them and went Im not sure what Id think of the show but its not what QR was about at all, I find them juvenile and barely pro level today, again the DRAMA is better than the music IMO
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As far as key and pitch, he has almost always been on point (barring shows where he is sick). His tone and timbre are a different matter. But some people can't seem to get past their own biases to see that. (and I'm NOT talking about Samsara)
I dont agree at all latorre is barely ever spot on and has to find the note and his singing technique has a lot to improve upon and hes not going in the right direction, Tate today is better still IMO ( No bias here just my ears ) to me I dont get anyone saying "he sounds like Tate" he does not and if he was the original singer of the band the band would not have made it , Tate is also a far far far better frontman and showman and has stage presence most do not, Tates a legend period, nobody else besides Scott is recognized for their musical abilities ( chris of course but hes been gone for over 23 years yikes)
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As far as key and pitch, he has almost always been on point (barring shows where he is sick). His tone and timbre are a different matter. But some people can't seem to get past their own biases to see that. (and I'm NOT talking about Samsara)
I dont agree at all latorre is barely ever spot on and has to find the note and his singing technique has a lot to improve upon and hes not going in the right direction, Tate today is better still IMO ( No bias here just my ears ) to me I dont get anyoen saying "he sounds like Tate" he does not and if her was the original singer of the band the band would not have made it , Tate is also a far far far better frontman and showman and has stage presence most do not, Tates a legend period
Checked this recent 2019 video out and he sounds pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMRSyYdRse0
Not perfect. Some of the high notes are a little flat (that's pitch, not key. Two different things) but use of vibrato masks a lot of imprecisions. I could understand not liking (or even hating) something, but you'd have to have shit for ears not to be able to recognize that LaTorre is singing in key.
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As far as key and pitch, he has almost always been on point (barring shows where he is sick). His tone and timbre are a different matter. But some people can't seem to get past their own biases to see that. (and I'm NOT talking about Samsara)
I dont agree at all latorre is barely ever spot on and has to find the note and his singing technique has a lot to improve upon and hes not going in the right direction, Tate today is better still IMO ( No bias here just my ears ) to me I dont get anyoen saying "he sounds like Tate" he does not and if her was the original singer of the band the band would not have made it , Tate is also a far far far better frontman and showman and has stage presence most do not, Tates a legend period
Checked this recent 2019 video out and he sounds pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMRSyYdRse0
Not perfect. Some of the high notes are a little flat (that's pitch, not key. Two different things) but use of vibrato masks a lot of imprecisions. I could understand not liking (or even hating) something, but you'd have to have shit for ears not to be able to recognize that LaTorre is singing in key.
sorry to me thats awful and if this is best he can do hes BAD sounds terrible actually, he will do his yodel breathing and then ramp up to the note he may hit it or not or may go past it , Ill take Tate all day any day
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As far as key and pitch, he has almost always been on point (barring shows where he is sick). His tone and timbre are a different matter. But some people can't seem to get past their own biases to see that. (and I'm NOT talking about Samsara)
I dont agree at all latorre is barely ever spot on and has to find the note and his singing technique has a lot to improve upon and hes not going in the right direction, Tate today is better still IMO ( No bias here just my ears ) to me I dont get anyoen saying "he sounds like Tate" he does not and if her was the original singer of the band the band would not have made it , Tate is also a far far far better frontman and showman and has stage presence most do not, Tates a legend period
Checked this recent 2019 video out and he sounds pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMRSyYdRse0
Not perfect. Some of the high notes are a little flat (that's pitch, not key. Two different things) but use of vibrato masks a lot of imprecisions. I could understand not liking (or even hating) something, but you'd have to have shit for ears not to be able to recognize that LaTorre is singing in key.
sorry to me thats awful and if this is best he can do hes BAD sounds terrible actually, he will do his yodel breathing and then ramp up to the note he may hit it or not or may go past it , Ill take Tate all day any day
That tells me all I need to know about your ears. Thanks for helping me distinguish that you have no musical credibility.
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Just my 2 cents, but this appears to be how the conversation is going:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NVuL7mLqT6g/hqdefault.jpg)
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As far as key and pitch, he has almost always been on point (barring shows where he is sick). His tone and timbre are a different matter. But some people can't seem to get past their own biases to see that. (and I'm NOT talking about Samsara)
I dont agree at all latorre is barely ever spot on and has to find the note and his singing technique has a lot to improve upon and hes not going in the right direction, Tate today is better still IMO ( No bias here just my ears ) to me I dont get anyoen saying "he sounds like Tate" he does not and if her was the original singer of the band the band would not have made it , Tate is also a far far far better frontman and showman and has stage presence most do not, Tates a legend period
Checked this recent 2019 video out and he sounds pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMRSyYdRse0
Not perfect. Some of the high notes are a little flat (that's pitch, not key. Two different things) but use of vibrato masks a lot of imprecisions. I could understand not liking (or even hating) something, but you'd have to have shit for ears not to be able to recognize that LaTorre is singing in key.
sorry to me thats awful and if this is best he can do hes BAD sounds terrible actually, he will do his yodel breathing and then ramp up to the note he may hit it or not or may go past it , Ill take Tate all day any day
That tells me all I need to know about your ears. Thanks for helping me distinguish that you have no musical credibility.
LOL if you say so ...LOL
May I ask how many QR shows you have been to since 1982?
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Just my 2 cents, but this appears to be how the conversation is going:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NVuL7mLqT6g/hqdefault.jpg)
Their production is brickwalled?
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Just my 2 cents, but this appears to be how the conversation is going:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NVuL7mLqT6g/hqdefault.jpg)
I agree Ive been quite objective and have been to about 30 shows of QR since 1982/83 Im pretty sure NU QR will not be doing the Promised Land live show anytime soon : )
To even try to compare NU QR to old QR is silly there is nothing in common live etc.
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Methinks someone does not know the meaning of the words 'objective' or 'subjective' and is getting all discombobulated
As if the number of shows you've been to has ANY meaning when discussing this. Gimme a break with that elitist crap. We get it man... you don't like new 'ryche.
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Just my 2 cents, but this appears to be how the conversation is going:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NVuL7mLqT6g/hqdefault.jpg)
Their production is brickwalled?
its actually part of the OMCII tour stage props : ) I cleaned off the graffiti
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But that's the thing...I did and he sounds like a very competent singer, in key and in pitch -- at least the ones I saw. Did he get bad more recently? (as Samsara suggests) or do you always think he sang poorly?
I'm not suggesting anything. His range has declined (from what I can tell) noticeably, and he's either opted to scream notes, or just can't hit them. Again, the last time I personally saw him perform was Dec. 2013. The rest of my viewing (which I do every couple of months or so, randomly, to see how the band is sounding) is from YouTube. I'm not suggesting recently. I'm saying my observation from 2012-2020 is that his range has suffered and he isn't singing some of the older songs in the way he did previously (whether because of style choices or inability - I don't know which).
Regarding key and pitch, Todd is hit and miss. He's not as consistent as Tate on those. Then again, Tate sings in a lower key these days.
Checked this recent 2019 video out and he sounds pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMRSyYdRse0
Not perfect. Some of the high notes are a little flat (that's pitch, not key. Two different things) but use of vibrato masks a lot of imprecisions. I could understand not liking (or even hating) something, but you'd have to have shit for ears not to be able to recognize that LaTorre is singing in key.
I skimmed through it, catching bits of Queen of the Reich, Eyes of a Stranger, Jet City, Take Hold, and a couple new ones. Credit where credit is due, Todd sounds like he's having a good show here. Yep, he's a little flat at times, which happens. But he is absolutely in key.
Only from a range perspective, sample Queen of the Reich's opening note, and the ending of the song from Rising West 2012, and then this one. You'll see the differences. He's straining now, most always, to do it, and screams most of it, instead of hitting a note. And the ending of the song in the current one linked here is not good at all. Again, this is just about range. He's struggling to get those notes, so he's screaming to cover it. I'm not saying it is a bad performance - it's not. But it's not as good as he used to do. Why that is, we can speculate. I'm pretty confident it is not by choice. But to say Todd isn't singing in key, and isn't giving a professional performance is flat out wrong. He is singing well. His voice just doesn't work for me any longer. For reasons I stated above, regarding tone and richness.
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Methinks someone does not know the meaning of the words 'objective' or 'subjective' and is getting all discombobulated
As if the number of shows you've been to has ANY meaning when discussing this. Gimme a break with that elitist crap. We get it man... you don't like new 'ryche.
Im simply talking about the subject,,, seems other are quite "ruffled" LOL
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But that's the thing...I did and he sounds like a very competent singer, in key and in pitch -- at least the ones I saw. Did he get bad more recently? (as Samsara suggests) or do you always think he sang poorly?
I'm not suggesting anything. His range has declined (from what I can tell) noticeably, and he's either opted to scream notes, or just can't hit them. Again, the last time I personally saw him perform was Dec. 2013. The rest of my viewing (which I do every couple of months or so, randomly, to see how the band is sounding) is from YouTube. I'm not suggesting recently. I'm saying my observation from 2012-2020 is that his range has suffered and he isn't singing some of the older songs in the way he did previously (whether because of style choices or inability - I don't know which).
Regarding key and pitch, Todd is hit and miss. He's not as consistent as Tate on those. Then again, Tate sings in a lower key these days.
Checked this recent 2019 video out and he sounds pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMRSyYdRse0
Not perfect. Some of the high notes are a little flat (that's pitch, not key. Two different things) but use of vibrato masks a lot of imprecisions. I could understand not liking (or even hating) something, but you'd have to have shit for ears not to be able to recognize that LaTorre is singing in key.
I skimmed through it, catching bits of Queen of the Reich, Eyes of a Stranger, Jet City, Take Hold, and a couple new ones. Credit where credit is due, Todd sounds like he's having a good show here. Yep, he's a little flat at times, which happens. But he is absolutely in key.
Only from a range perspective, sample Queen of the Reich's opening note, and the ending of the song from Rising West 2012, and then this one. You'll see the differences. He's straining now, most always, to do it, and screams most of it, instead of hitting a note. And the ending of the song in the current one linked here is not good at all. Again, this is just about range. He's struggling to get those notes, so he's screaming to cover it. I'm not saying it is a bad performance - it's not. But it's not as good as he used to do. Why that is, we can speculate. I'm pretty confident it is not by choice. But to say Todd isn't singing in key, and isn't giving a professional performance is flat out wrong. He is singing well. His voice just doesn't work for me any longer. For reasons I stated above, regarding tone and richness.
again I agree w Samsara
I never saw Tate ever struggle period, have bad show, or blame "being sick" before everyone goes beserk Im aware that the band did 1/4 step some of the old songs but to me it made no difference in enjoyment live and after 30 years Tates voice was still far superior to 90% of his peers of the same age and genre. I even see Wiltons playing going down and nobody slags him, because nobody thinks hes that good anyway so hes never cut on
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LOL if you say so ...LOL
May I ask how many QR shows you have been to since 1982?
Only saw them once on the Promised Land tour and it was very special. For some perspective, I don't have as much invested in this band as some of you guys. I do like them, but they've never been "top tier" for me. I've got everything from the EP to Promised Land (and think it's all uniquely great!). I bought Q2K for 1$ (don't even think its worth that much) and copied American Soldier from the library (waste of a blank CD).
As far as Youtube live performance vocal evaluation goes, I'm simply listening to the vocals as objectively as possible, listening for the correct notes and pitch control. No emotional investment needed, it's not rocket science. If I had to say something negative about LaTorre I'd say that his natural projection sounds "strained" (for lack of a better word) and I can see how this would be irksome, but it is a far cry from being flat out awful.
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here is objective as of TODAY
Todd not as good as Tate and has no star power
Wilton not as good as Chris ( Wilton still cant do what Chris did)
Casey not as good as Scott
Parker as good as Wilton
Jackson ( whatever )
Its all downgrade today but Parker is as good as Wilton in Wilton's old role
is that even debatable?
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None of that is objective. It's opinion. And as such, it's valid. But "objective" doesn't even enter into the discussion.
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again I agree w Samsara
I never saw Tate ever struggle period, have bad show, or blame "being sick" before everyone goes beserk Im aware that the band did 1/4 step some of the old songs but to me it made no difference in enjoyment live and after 30 years Tates voice was still far superior to 90% of his peers of the same age and genre. I even see Wiltons playing going down and nobody slags him, because nobody thinks hes that good anyway so hes never cut on
OTOH I've seen plenty of Tate performances on YouTube where "awful" is the precise word I'd use to describe it. Can't hit any of the notes, and doesn't even try for some of the higher ones. In some spots what he's doing can't even be described as "singing". However, I saw something recently which sounded much better (can't remember what it was) that impressed me a bit, because he didn't completely suck. So maybe there's hope for him.
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LOL if you say so ...LOL
May I ask how many QR shows you have been to since 1982?
Only saw them once on the Promised Land tour and it was very special. For some perspective, I don't have as much invested in this band as some of you guys. I do like them, but they've never been "top tier" for me. I've got everything from the EP to Promised Land (and think it's all uniquely great!). I bought Q2K for 1$ (don't even think its worth that much) and copied American Soldier from the library (waste of a blank CD).
As far as Youtube live performance vocal evaluation goes, I'm simply listening to the vocals as objectively as possible, listening for the correct notes and pitch control. No emotional investment needed, it's not rocket science. If I had to say something negative about LaTorre I'd say that his natural projection sounds "strained" (for lack of a better word) and I can see how this would be irksome, but it is a far cry from being flat out awful.
its all good bro
This is what QR fans do LOL The fans ran off both Kelly and Stone for being "butchers"!!! the same scrutiny should be given to Latorre ,,,,its sadly true in many ways all thats left is to "argue and debate" as the music is just " meh"
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None of that is objective. It's opinion. And as such, it's valid. But "objective" doesn't even enter into the discussion.
again my opinion is OBJECTIVE if Todd sounded great Id say so he does not OBJECTIVELY only subjectively could one say he does : )
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again I agree w Samsara
I never saw Tate ever struggle period, have bad show, or blame "being sick" before everyone goes beserk Im aware that the band did 1/4 step some of the old songs but to me it made no difference in enjoyment live and after 30 years Tates voice was still far superior to 90% of his peers of the same age and genre. I even see Wiltons playing going down and nobody slags him, because nobody thinks hes that good anyway so hes never cut on
OTOH I've seen plenty of Tate performances on YouTube where "awful" is the precise word I'd use to describe it. Can't hit any of the notes, and doesn't even try for some of the higher ones. In some spots what he's doing can't even be described as "singing". However, I saw something recently which sounded much better (can't remember what it was) that impressed me a bit, because he didn't completely suck. So maybe there's hope for him.
find me one and post it and lets discuss if we can here ( not sure its the right place to do it )
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None of that is objective. It's opinion. And as such, it's valid. But "objective" doesn't even enter into the discussion.
It also creates (in this case an even wider) credibility gap when someone tries to pass their opinion off as objective truth
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This is what QR fans do LOL The fans ran off both Kelly and Stone for being "butchers"!!! the same scrutiny should be given to Latorre
Not here, they don't. It's called trolling, and this is not the place for it.
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again I agree w Samsara
I never saw Tate ever struggle period, have bad show, or blame "being sick" before everyone goes beserk Im aware that the band did 1/4 step some of the old songs but to me it made no difference in enjoyment live and after 30 years Tates voice was still far superior to 90% of his peers of the same age and genre. I even see Wiltons playing going down and nobody slags him, because nobody thinks hes that good anyway so hes never cut on
OTOH I've seen plenty of Tate performances on YouTube where "awful" is the precise word I'd use to describe it. Can't hit any of the notes, and doesn't even try for some of the higher ones. In some spots what he's doing can't even be described as "singing". However, I saw something recently which sounded much better (can't remember what it was) that impressed me a bit, because he didn't completely suck. So maybe there's hope for him.
find me one and post it and lets discuss if we can here ( not sure its the right place to do it )
Sorry man, I'm done with you. You're not worth the waste of time. You have no objective ability to judge vocal performances and I can't take anything you post seriously.
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To even try to compare NU QR to old QR is silly there is nothing in common live etc.
I wouldn't call it silly. They still have a majority songwriter from their metal years (Wilton), and their bass player who has grown into a really good songwriter (Jackson). So there is plenty in common, which is why people like myself and others still keep tabs on them, even if we're not fans of the current version of Queensryche.
I do get (I think) what you're trying to say...
Tate will ALWAYS been seen and thought of as Queensryche's singer -- as he should be. The original band will always be seen as Queensryche, because those five dudes invented the band's sound and had a lot of success. Their career followed a songwriting arc few bands these days have the luxury to follow. They were able to grow, expand, and evolve. And when Chris left, they tried continuing that, but it didn't quite work, and they've never really had a creative arc like that again (outside writers, then Tate leaving, Scott leaving, etc.).
So the different eras are really not the same, and the current Queensryche is far from the original lineup's vibe and template. But the comparisons aren't silly. They are natural. I happen to think they are very different bands (the current compared to the original) and not at all alike. But for casual fans (which make up many here at DTF) the difference isn't as noticeable.
I never saw Tate ever struggle period, have bad show, or blame "being sick" before everyone goes beserk Im aware that the band did 1/4 step some of the old songs but to me it made no difference in enjoyment live and after 30 years Tates voice was still far superior to 90% of his peers of the same age and genre. I even see Wiltons playing going down and nobody slags him, because nobody thinks hes that good anyway so hes never cut on
Well, I have seen Tate struggle. It just wasn't often. So if you didn't, then you're lucky. But Tate is by far more consistent, and always has been. Out of the 35 times or so I've seen Tate (either with QR or solo), I can count on one hand how many times he struggled. If you're a singer, you know -- shit happens. A frog in the throat, a cold that you have to sing around, touring life is a bitch. lol. As for slagging others, the singer is always front and center, so it is natural to narrow in on the singer. But I think anyone watching the band knows they aren't anywhere as tight live as they used to be.
p.s. shit, so many replies. I can't keep up! LOL
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To even try to compare NU QR to old QR is silly there is nothing in common live etc.
I wouldn't call it silly. They still have a majority songwriter from their metal years (Wilton), and their bass player who has grown into a really good songwriter (Jackson). So there is plenty in common, which is why people like myself and others still keep tabs on them, even if we're not fans of the current version of Queensryche.
I do get (I think) what you're trying to say...
Tate will ALWAYS been seen and thought of as Queensryche's singer -- as he should be. The original band will always be seen as Queensryche, because those five dudes invented the band's sound and had a lot of success. Their career followed a songwriting arc few bands these days have the luxury to follow. They were able to grow, expand, and evolve. And when Chris left, they tried continuing that, but it didn't quite work, and they've never really had a creative arc like that again (outside writers, then Tate leaving, Scott leaving, etc.).
So the different eras are really not the same, and the current Queensryche is far from the original lineup's vibe and template. But the comparisons aren't silly. They are natural. I happen to think they are very different bands (the current compared to the original) and not at all alike. But for casual fans (which make up many here at DTF) the difference isn't as noticeable.
I never saw Tate ever struggle period, have bad show, or blame "being sick" before everyone goes beserk Im aware that the band did 1/4 step some of the old songs but to me it made no difference in enjoyment live and after 30 years Tates voice was still far superior to 90% of his peers of the same age and genre. I even see Wiltons playing going down and nobody slags him, because nobody thinks hes that good anyway so hes never cut on
Well, I have seen Tate struggle. It just wasn't often. So if you didn't, then you're lucky. But Tate is by far more consistent, and always has been. Out of the 35 times or so I've seen Tate (either with QR or solo), I can count on one hand how many times he struggled. If you're a singer, you know -- shit happens. A frog in the throat, a cold that you have to sing around, touring life is a bitch. lol. As for slagging others, the singer is always front and center, so it is natural to narrow in on the singer. But I think anyone watching the band knows they aren't anywhere as tight live as they used to be.
p.s. shit, so many replies. I can't keep up! LOL
again we agree,,, : ) you must be a "Tate Fan boy!!" I JEST!!!
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again we agree,,, : ) you must be a "Tate Fan boy!!" I JEST!!!
No, he is someone who takes the time to articulate his thoughts, uses the proper meaning of words, and isn't a troll.
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again we agree,,, : ) you must be a "Tate Fan boy!!" I JEST!!!
I'm as far from a Tate fan boy as you can be. I just prefer the tonal quality of his voice to La Torre's. That's all there really is to it. I find Tate to be a better overall singer. La Torre just has more range. Neither one of them is perfect these days.
No, he is someone who takes the time to articulate his thoughts, uses the proper meaning of words, and isn't a troll.
Thanks bosk. :)
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I would say this about the two eras of the band.
One of my biggest musical regrets is not accepting the version of Black Sabbath of the late 80's/early 90's. I was appalled that they would even call it Black Sabbath. I turned my back on it. Which is too bad, because that band toured a lot, had really good albums, and had some interesting members.
With the TLT Era QR, it's obviously NOT Queensryche, with all due respect to Wilton. That's like Mark Kendall's Great White, or Oliver-Dawson Saxon.
BUT, the TLT output has been pretty decent IMO. So I am going to just enjoy the albums for what they are. I'm not going to fret over the name of the band or try and figure out where and how they fit in the big QR scheme of things.
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again I agree w Samsara
I never saw Tate ever struggle period, have bad show, or blame "being sick" before everyone goes beserk Im aware that the band did 1/4 step some of the old songs but to me it made no difference in enjoyment live and after 30 years Tates voice was still far superior to 90% of his peers of the same age and genre. I even see Wiltons playing going down and nobody slags him, because nobody thinks hes that good anyway so hes never cut on
OTOH I've seen plenty of Tate performances on YouTube where "awful" is the precise word I'd use to describe it. Can't hit any of the notes, and doesn't even try for some of the higher ones. In some spots what he's doing can't even be described as "singing". However, I saw something recently which sounded much better (can't remember what it was) that impressed me a bit, because he didn't completely suck. So maybe there's hope for him.
find me one and post it and lets discuss if we can here ( not sure its the right place to do it )
Sorry man, I'm done with you. You're not worth the waste of time. You have no objective ability to judge vocal performances and I can't take anything you post seriously.
LOL OK ,,, peace to you
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again we agree,,, : ) you must be a "Tate Fan boy!!" I JEST!!!
I'm as far from a Tate fan boy as you can be. I just prefer the tonal quality of his voice to La Torre's. That's all there really is to it. I find Tate to be a better overall singer. La Torre just has more range. Neither one of them is perfect these days.
No, he is someone who takes the time to articulate his thoughts, uses the proper meaning of words, and isn't a troll.
Thanks bosk. :)
I agree and I hope Tate never goes back to QR good talk today
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again we agree,,, : ) you must be a "Tate Fan boy!!" I JEST!!!
No, he is someone who takes the time to articulate his thoughts, uses the proper meaning of words, and isn't a troll.
I agree I like Samsaras posts, today we agreed often which was cool, but if we disagree thats cool too
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None of that is objective. It's opinion. And as such, it's valid. But "objective" doesn't even enter into the discussion.
again my opinion is OBJECTIVE if Todd sounded great Id say so he does not OBJECTIVELY only subjectively could one say he does : )
folks please don't sleep on this gem
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again we agree,,, : ) you must be a "Tate Fan boy!!" I JEST!!!
I'm as far from a Tate fan boy as you can be. I just prefer the tonal quality of his voice to La Torre's. That's all there really is to it. I find Tate to be a better overall singer. La Torre just has more range. Neither one of them is perfect these days.
No, he is someone who takes the time to articulate his thoughts, uses the proper meaning of words, and isn't a troll.
Thanks bosk. :)
For my money, your posts on this band are the best. Your discography was a great read. I actually come to the QR threads just to see what you have to say. I've come to consider you the "official unofficial" authority on this band.
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LOL OK ,,, peace to you
Thanks. No hard feelings and best wishes to you sir.
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LOL OK ,,, peace to you
Thanks. No hard feelings and best wishes to you sir.
its all good peace to you
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For my money, your posts on this band are the best. Your discography was a great read. I actually come to the QR threads just to see what you have to say. I've come to consider you the "official unofficial" authority on this band.
Thanks. That's nice of you to say. I'm far from an authority on the current version of the band. But I do like to consider myself a bit of historian on the original group. I run a website (see signature below) that documents the history of the original Queensryche. Will always be my favorite band (that era). They really had something special together.
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Interesting thought I just had on reaction to the replacement members of QR over the years:
Kelly Gray: In general, not liked by the fan base. One could argue that it is because he was the first "new" member since the classic era of the band, so it was really jarring. Or that it was because he was replacing Chris DeGarmo, who was so iconic. But I think it was his playing and style. By and large, I think the fans initially gave him a fair shot, even many that may not have liked what they heard from Q2K. But as we heard more and more from his live playing, a LOT of fans seemed to bristle at the liberties he took with Chris's solos, and with his over use of wah, among other things. By the time Live Evolution dropped, a lot of fans were calling for him to leave.
-My verdict: :tdwn He just wasn't the right fit.
Mike Stone: Fan reactions seemed initially mixed. A lot of people didn't know what to think of this new look or the song he contributed to Tribe. But even a lot of those who initially accepted him became put off over time, either because of his shrill guitar tone or the fact that they didn't like the new material and partly blamed Stone.
-My verdict: I initially liked him. But, ultimately, he wasn't the right fit and I didn't care for his playing later on. :tdwn
Parker Lundgren: I think almost everybody panned him in the beginning, simply because his hiring smacked of nepotism, and because he was a complete unknown and perceived as "too young." To his credit, Parker worked HARD to learn not only the right notes to play, but how to play them with the right feel and tone so that whatever he was playing sounded faithful to QR's sound. I think he eventually won over most of the naysayers.
-My verdict: I was initially VERY put off by his hiring, but he completely won me over (as far as his playing and writing, other than lyrics). :tup
Todd LaTorre: Mixed reviews. Most of the fans seemed to accept him right off the bat because of his chops and/or because of the frustration with what Tate had done to the band and his declining abilities and declining desire to care. Some rejected Todd simply because "nobody could ever replace Tate! EVER!" And I complete get that, even if I may not agree. Others may have rejected him for other reasons, such as simply not liking his stage presence, his timbre, or what have you. I get the general sense that more accepted him than not, but either way, I think "mixed" best sums up the response. And I don't think many have jumped ship one way or the other over time. I think "mixed" is still where the verdict sits on Todd.
-My verdict: :tup :tup :tup He has had his issues. But at least as far as stage performance and writing (other than lyrics), he was a great addition.
Casey: As far as I know, there hasn't been any backlash. I don't think ANYBODY is happy about not having Scott on the kit. But Casey is capable. And much like Parker, he seems to have done a good job of doing his best to capture the right feel and mood to suit the songs. I think he's generally accepted.
-My verdict: Eh...I don't care. If they had to replace Scott, he's fine. :tup
Anyone else care to chime in with their opinions?
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For my money, your posts on this band are the best. Your discography was a great read. I actually come to the QR threads just to see what you have to say. I've come to consider you the "official unofficial" authority on this band.
Thanks. That's nice of you to say. I'm far from an authority on the current version of the band. But I do like to consider myself a bit of historian on the original group. I run a website (see signature below) that documents the history of the original Queensryche. Will always be my favorite band (that era). They really had something special together.
Indeed. They were an uniquely awesome band. But nothing lasts forever. All things considered, they had an amazing run up to Chris' departure. I do, however, think your opinion on the current incarnation carries much authority, and I find myself agreeing with many of the points you make regarding QR with LaTorre. So I'm always interested in hearing your take on any recent developments. Cheers and thanks for posting all your thoughts here for us to read! (I used to mainly lurk and read).
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I would say this about the two eras of the band.
One of my biggest musical regrets is not accepting the version of Black Sabbath of the late 80's/early 90's. I was appalled that they would even call it Black Sabbath. I turned my back on it. Which is too bad, because that band toured a lot, had really good albums, and had some interesting members.
That's a great point right there. I did the same thing with Anthrax. I was a huge Joey fan and had no interest in seeing John sing Joey's stuff so I refused to see them live. Then they were going to do the tour with both guys and I bought tix immediately. Then Joey dropped out. The whole show was just John and he blew me away. I saw them every time they came around after that.
As for QR, I have no issues with Todd. I think he sounds great and has really settled into his own on the studio material. I saw them live once and my chief complaints were that Casey was not Scott and that Michael and Ed stood there like statues and barely moved a muscle. If it wasn't for Parker and Todd it would have been like watching mannequins perform. Otherwise, they sounded great to me.
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Joining the QR thread. I've never been a huge fan, I really like OM, but I tried out Empire after and really wasn't into it way back when I first started listening to them 10+ years ago. I also bought the Operation Livecrime DVD and thought the OM2 was cheesy and the whole performance was a bit odd. (I watched once and never went back to it).
My local venue had a buy one get one free sale on black friday so figured what the hell, bought two tickets to see QR with John 5 in February (my other ticket is for sale on stubhub, so I'll likely have paid around $10-15 total for the show). Figured that's worth it and it's been awhile since I tried, so now is better than ever to give another shot.
So what should I check out? I'm guessing the latest album? Is that what they are likely to be performing songs from or are they mostly doing the older stuff?
Casey: As far as I know, there hasn't been any backlash. I don't think ANYBODY is happy about not having Scott on the kit. But Casey is capable. And much like Parker, he seems to have done a good job of doing his best to capture the right feel and mood to suit the songs. I think he's generally accepted.
-My verdict: Eh...I don't care. If they had to replace Scott, he's fine. :tup
Anyone else care to chime in with their opinions?
Can't speak of anyone else, but Casey was the drummer of Kamelot and left them to do this (I think amongst other personal things). He's a solid drummer and capable. He was never one that really stood out to me, but he's a professional and likely a good replacement. I'm hoping to meet him at the show because of how that venue is set up, I often have gotten handshakes or met/chatted with the musicians either right before or after the hit the stage (including a Geoff Tate fist bump last year during his OM show). I met current Warrant singer Robert Mason last year as well while wearing a Kamelot shirt and he immediately brought up Casey so I kind of feel I should go full circle and wear the same shirt and tell Casey, Robert Mason was fond of you last year :yarr
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My local venue had a buy one get one free sale on black friday so figured what the hell, bought two tickets to see QR with John 5 in February (my other ticket is for sale on stubhub, so I'll likely have paid around $10-15 total for the show). Figured that's worth it and it's been awhile since I tried, so now is better than ever to give another shot.
So what should I check out? I'm guessing the latest album? Is that what they are likely to be performing songs from or are they mostly doing the older stuff?
Looks like their current set is roughly (it varies slightly)
-2-3 songs from the new one.
-2-3 songs from the other Todd-era albums (self titled and Condition Human)
-The rest spread out over the EP-Promised Land Tate era (EP, Warning, Rage, Mindcrime, Empire, Promised Land), with each of those albums getting 1-3 songs.
That makes it really hard to suggest a particular album. Sorry.
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Yeah I think they started to more to have more TLT Era stuff in the set last year.
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Ah yea, doesn't make it the easiest, but if they have a typical set list (I should have checked first) then I can just check out the songs they are playing individually on youtube or make myself a playlist there instead of getting an album.
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Well, that was a lot to catch up on. The way I look at it, everyone will have different opinions. As Tim mentioned with Sabbath, turning your back on a lineup due to original members not being their is your loss. We can't control what's happening with Queensryche one bit, but we can choose to enjoy what they are doing regardless. If one thinks it's not Queensryche and the current members aren't up to scratch, that's subjective and you miss out, and if the band are happy doing what they are doing, good for them and we can enjoy it or simply wish them well and not bother.
I see no issue that we can't enjoy this new incarnation of Queensryche along with what Tate might be doing also. I don't think anyone would prefer to see Eddie and Whip simply vanish out of sight just because the band has split up like it has. Why should they stop playing and if they want to carry on with the Ryche name like they are, I'm all for it.
It reminds me of when Bruce left Maiden and Steve was at a very low point and was going to end the band. I think it was Dave and Nicko that were out drinking and said to each other, 'fuck him, why should we stop just cause he wants to.' Luckily Steve adopted this approach but it's the same thing with Eddie and Michael. Should they have formed a different band name or something, who's to say, but good on them all for carrying on the Ryche name and doing a damn good job.
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Totally agree wolf, I absolutely HATE when I see on social media "no (former band member name), no (band name)" in this case "no Geoff, no Ryche". Why can't people just let them move on? You don't need to follow if you don't want to anymore. No Jani No Warrant, man that shit is why I wanted to meet Robert Mason, guy was so happy that someone didn't shit on him for once. I feel bad for the replacement members most times.
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Well, that was a lot to catch up on. The way I look at it, everyone will have different opinions. As Tim mentioned with Sabbath, turning your back on a lineup due to original members not being their is your loss. We can't control what's happening with Queensryche one bit, but we can choose to enjoy what they are doing regardless. If one thinks it's not Queensryche and the current members aren't up to scratch, that's subjective and you miss out, and if the band are happy doing what they are doing, good for them and we can enjoy it or simply wish them well and not bother.
I see no issue that we can't enjoy this new incarnation of Queensryche along with what Tate might be doing also. I don't think anyone would prefer to see Eddie and Whip simply vanish out of sight just because the band has split up like it has. Why should they stop playing and if they want to carry on with the Ryche name like they are, I'm all for it.
It reminds me of when Bruce left Maiden and Steve was at a very low point and was going to end the band. I think it was Dave and Nicko that were out drinking and said to each other, 'fuck him, why should we stop just cause he wants to.' Luckily Steve adopted this approach but it's the same thing with Eddie and Michael. Should they have formed a different band name or something, who's to say, but good on them all for carrying on the Ryche name and doing a damn good job.
Totally agree wolf, I absolutely HATE when I see on social media "no (former band member name), no (band name)" in this case "no Geoff, no Ryche". Why can't people just let them move on? You don't need to follow if you don't want to anymore. No Jani No Warrant, man that shit is why I wanted to meet Robert Mason, guy was so happy that someone didn't shit on him for once. I feel bad for the replacement members most times.
And all that is really it, isn't it? The jumping off point for people will always vary, as will the time it takes to get to that point.
It took me a very long time to just accept QR for what it is now. It's not my thing, and I'm OK with that - I just focus on the era I love, and the music I like. But there was a lot of thinking about how to express that in threads like this, and getting to the point where I didn't overly criticize without also giving appropriate praise as well. It's a balancing act. I mean, I think people should be free to express their opinion -- Lord knows I did for years on The Breakdown Room before I closed it. But all those guys in Queensryche...I may not agree with what they're doing or necessarily like it. But they are out there trying to make a living, and things as simple as posts on a message board can have dramatic impact when seen by enough people. Trust me, I know. :lol
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Can’t really comment on whether TLT’s voice has declined as I’ve not seen them live for years, it seems to be the general opinion so I will go with that. What I will say is that, when I saw him with QR during the tour for the self titled album, he was incredible, jaw dropping in fact. It remains possibly the greatest vocal performance I have seen live. I had seen QR with Tate on the recent Mindcrime 1&2 tour and then opening for Judas Priest and they were atrocious, painful to watch. This show with TLT was a huge improvement on that but TLT aside, they weren’t exactly electric to watch and Parker is no DeGarmo unfortunately.
I’d probably still see them if they were playing locally and have no problem with the remaining members making a living but you can’t really replace peak Tate or DeGarmo either as a single guitar player or the chemistry he and Wilton had as a guitar duo. I would also say you miss them as songwriters but Tate hasn’t written a decent song for a long time and neither has DeGarmo. I know DeGarmo hasn’t written much at all but he did come back for Tribe and that’s no better than most of the other post Promised Land records.
I have enjoyed the TLT albums to varying degrees and consider them to be better than anything the band have done since Promised Land but they are not classics to me and don’t come close to the golden era of the band.
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Going to see them next Friday. Saw them several times with Tate since OM. Looking forward to seeing them in a small club.
I will give my objective opinion on the performance after the show.
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I would say this about the two eras of the band.
One of my biggest musical regrets is not accepting the version of Black Sabbath of the late 80's/early 90's. I was appalled that they would even call it Black Sabbath. I turned my back on it. Which is too bad, because that band toured a lot, had really good albums, and had some interesting members.
With the TLT Era QR, it's obviously NOT Queensryche, with all due respect to Wilton. That's like Mark Kendall's Great White, or Oliver-Dawson Saxon.
BUT, the TLT output has been pretty decent IMO. So I am going to just enjoy the albums for what they are. I'm not going to fret over the name of the band or try and figure out where and how they fit in the big QR scheme of things.
This is such a good post. One can argue if the new QR is QR or something else, but at the end of the day it's the music that should count, you like it or you don't like it, the name of the band shouldn't be important.
I happen to quite like the TLT output a lot and I see a steady growth in quality from the self-titled to The Verdict. And I hope they keep going on and release another record sometime. And at this point I really don't care if Scott returns or not.
And regarding Tate and his latest performances, it seems he's a little bit better than he was some years ago, but he's never going to sound like the old days again. And his performance with Avantasia is solid imo, but nothing more. He has ditched that nasal thing he did for some time and he hits some high notes, but (again strictly imo) his voice and phrasing has taken on an annoying undertone. I will always say that he was one of the best metal singers and listen to the old QR records and enjoy them, but there is nothing about his singing and his solo work today that appeals to me.
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I had seen QR with Tate on the recent Mindcrime 1&2 tour and then opening for Judas Priest and they were atrocious, painful to watch.
That QR tour with Priest was a year before that MC 1 and 2 tour -- summer 2005. And I am not sure which show you were at, but I saw it multiple times, and Tate and the band were on fire. One of the best tours they did. Tate reached back to hit some notes, and really brought his A game since they were touring with Rob Halford, IMO. I have most of the bootlegs from that tour, and from what I remember, Tate was never really off on any of them.
have no problem with the remaining members making a living but you can’t really replace peak Tate or DeGarmo either as a single guitar player or the chemistry he and Wilton had as a guitar duo.
Absolutely agree.
I would also say you miss them as songwriters but Tate hasn’t written a decent song for a long time and neither has DeGarmo. I know DeGarmo hasn’t written much at all but he did come back for Tribe and that’s no better than most of the other post Promised Land records.
Well, that's personal preference. I think "Art of Life" is one of the best songs post-Promised Land that the band has its name on. And it was written by DeGarmo/Tate. And I quite enjoy "Falling Behind" and think it is severely underrated by people. Classic Queensryche. The subtle build, the social commentary, etc. But that's a subject for another day. Again, personal preference plays a role in saying whether something is better or worse than something. ;)
I have enjoyed the TLT albums to varying degrees and consider them to be better than anything the band have done since Promised Land but they are not classics to me and don’t come close to the golden era of the band.
And that's fair for sure. And I agree that some of the TLT material is much better than most of the post-DeGarmo stuff. I'd argue, however, that the stuff on HITNF and the stuff on Tribe that DeGarmo was involved in has the classic QR traits to it (due to just the band's songwriting evolution with the original five) that make it very distinct, and very good.
A word on La Torre and good shows with him. I've seen Queensryche close to 40 times since 1995. Eight of those shows have been with TLT fronting the band, with the last one being Reno, Nev., in December 2013. Only once did I walk away (New Jersey, spring 2013) thinking it was a bad performance. And two nights later, Queensryche played my hometown for the first time ever, and TLT had one of the best shows I've ever heard. He learned how to power through a cold and I was really inspired about how he performed. It was jaw-dropping. (Of course a few nights later he sounded terrible at a show in the South, but that's besides the point - lol.)
The bottom line for me is this, and take it for what it's worth:
At the outset, the band seemed to very much parade the fact that TLT sounded like Tate, and TLT took pains to emphasize his similarities with Tate, but threw in that he was just him for the sake of appearing humble to people. He had a lot of range, tried to sing clean, and did his thing. But as time has gone on, it is quite apparent to anyone familiar with singing, that while TLT is very influenced by Tate and has adopted some of the phrasing Tate used, they are actually very different singers. I'd argue that TLT is naturally more like a cross between Dickinson and Anselmo. But TLT was talented enough to highlight as much of Tate as he could in his voice early on. Nowadays, it appears TLT has very much just reverted to fully being himself, in as much as the Tate-era QR material allows him to be. And that's OK, honestly, that's what he SHOULD do. He's the frontman of the band, he needs to make the songs his own.
But where Tate has lost some range, he still has a lot of stamina and a tone and richness to his voice that frankly, TLT just naturally doesn't have. It's no one's fault really -- I mean, you could argue that smoking took Tate's range away, just as it likely is the reason TLT can't his the real high notes cleanly any longer and has to scream them. But they just are different singers. There is a subtlety to the classic QR material that the current version of Queensryche just doesn't have. And that's not a knock -- it's just that the bands are DIFFERENT. And again, that's OK. Queensryche is more of a metal band now, with a singer who has a grittier tone. Some don't notice those differences, but I happen to, and I know I'm not the only one. They simply are different singers, and the band is completely different.
To rail on TLT mercilessly is just plain stupid. If you like what he does - great. If you're like me, and you appreciate the talent but don't really like how it translates to Queensryche, that's fine too. But to shit on TLT is wrong (not saying you Peter, I'm talking in generalities). The guy is a talented singer and does a good job on stage night after night. He has different strengths and weakness in comparison with Tate which have become more glaring as time has gone on. But as much as he is no longer my cup of tea, I think it's really shortsighted for anyone to slam him without any context. His voice seems to have lost range, and it hasn't gotten stronger. That's not a slam, that's an observation. But he's out there every night delivering the songs, better than most could, and I think that gets forgotten in the large scheme of things.
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I largely agree with most if not all of that.
I really like this paragraph below. For the sake of discussion, I will slightly push back on the bolded:At the outset, the band seemed to very much parade the fact that TLT sounded like Tate, and TLT took pains to emphasize his similarities with Tate, but threw in that he was just him for the sake of appearing humble to people. He had a lot of range, tried to sing clean, and did his thing. But as time has gone on, it is quite apparent to anyone familiar with singing, that while TLT is very influenced by Tate and has adopted some of the phrasing Tate used, they are actually very different singers. I'd argue that TLT is naturally more like a cross between Dickinson and Anselmo. But TLT was talented enough to highlight as much of Tate as he could in his voice early on. Nowadays, it appears TLT has very much just reverted to fully being himself, in as much as the Tate-era QR material allows him to be. And that's OK, honestly, that's what he SHOULD do. He's the frontman of the band, he needs to make the songs his own.
I will say: yes and no. Just yesterday, a 2019 show came up in my playlist, and I had it on in the background while working. I think the context of how I was listening was important, because I wasn't solely focused on concentrating on the performance. There were times when I caught myself thinking I was listening to Tate--several times throughout the show. Of course, there were plenty of other times when I clearly knew I was listening to LaTorre. But, again, plenty of songs or moments in songs where it sounded like it easily could have been Tate. My point is that I don't think LaTorre has completely "reverted to fully being himself." I think there's a balance there. And, as you pointed out, as the new frontman of the band, he should be putting his own stamp on things. I think he is, overally, doing a pretty good job of trying to balance how much to try to sound like the originals in order to pay proper deference and respect to the legacy of those songs, putting his own stamp and personality on them so as to not merely come across as a hired gun, and making his own stylistic choices because of his own vocal abilities, whether some of those decisions are because of his personal limitations and vocal instrument, merely stylistic, or something else.
Anyhow, again, not really disagreeing, but just merely putting my own spin on my observations. It reminds me a lot of when I saw Augeri fronting Journey in 2001 (or maybe it was early 2002?). They were playing an arena, and I was actually in a luxury box at the back of the venue, so my attention was divided between the show and socializing with some friends and others who were there. It was the first time I had heard Journey without Perry at all. I felt like Augeri really did the songs justice. At times, he was just being himself. At others, I had to stop and just listen in stunned silence because I was struck by how much he had made an effort to capture Perry's timbre, phrasing, and overall style to the point where, especially in a live setting, you almost wouldn't know it wasn't Perry up there. Again, I thought he did a good job with his choices in paying homage and staying true to the originals, while also making them his own when appropriate. I think he sided with adding less of his own style than LaTorre does now with QR. But it was still a balance that felt right. When I saw them again in Marysville on that tour supporting Generations where they did a full set of mostly pre-Perry rarities, and then a separate more typical hits/new material set, I felt the same. You could see/hear a bit of his own style shining through to make the songs his own. But he also tried very hard to be faithful to the originals. And, for me, that balance worked.
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bosk,
But I think that's it -- we're talking about THE WAY you're listening. Yes, if you have it on in the background, and are just doing your thing, TLT singing classic QR material will sort of remind you of Tate. Those are Tate and DeGarmo's melodies he's singing, and he phrases like Tate. Absolutely. Random listening like that for sure. What I was specifically talking about is if you honed in on and critically compared the two. And if you listen like that, it becomes easier to pick out how different they are in their approaches. :)
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Yeah, I don't disagree with that.
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Well, that was a lot to catch up on. The way I look at it, everyone will have different opinions. As Tim mentioned with Sabbath, turning your back on a lineup due to original members not being their is your loss. We can't control what's happening with Queensryche one bit, but we can choose to enjoy what they are doing regardless. If one thinks it's not Queensryche and the current members aren't up to scratch, that's subjective and you miss out, and if the band are happy doing what they are doing, good for them and we can enjoy it or simply wish them well and not bother.
Totally agree wolf, I absolutely HATE when I see on social media "no (former band member name), no (band name)" in this case "no Geoff, no Ryche". Why can't people just let them move on? You don't need to follow if you don't want to anymore. No Jani No Warrant, man that shit is why I wanted to meet Robert Mason, guy was so happy that someone didn't shit on him for once. I feel bad for the replacement members most times.
This. Both of you were spot on here. It reminds me of all the "Portnoy was the soul of DT" comments. Bands change, members leave, are fired, pass away (sadly) or whatever. We can't do anything about it. We could complain all that we want on social media, but that's not gonna change things a bit.
When the MP-DT split happened, Mike P was my favorite drummer ever and I was really sad to see him leave, but guess what? The band moved on and I fully embraced Mangini as the new drummer, because it still was and is my favorite band, one member leaving doesn't change that (I now prefer MM to MP in both playing and personality, but that's just my personal preference). In other cases, if a member I really like leaves or isn't present on previous albums, I might lose interest, but I don't have to spread negativity about that. There's just SO MANY bands/albums/songs out there to focus my time and attention on some of them that I don't like too much.
To bring it back to QR, Geoff was let go for very specific reasons that have been well documented and I'm sure it those things didn't happen the way they did, nobody else in the band would've wanted him out. But guess what? Things went that way and they have another frontman now who, apart from a few online shenanigans, he's been giving it his 100% and is doing his best to keep the boat floating. Yes, he's no Tate in his golden years, but who is? TLT is as close as it gets and imo there isn't a better replacement out there for Tate unless they develop human cloning. If you don't like the current band, just move on and focus on the other bands you enjoy out there. Just my two cents.
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If you don't like the current band, just move on and focus on the other bands you enjoy out there. Just my two cents.
G, so you're saying if you don't like the current band, people shouldn't pay attention to them any longer? Even if, like me, they loved the original era? I don't think that's specifically what you're saying, but that's how it comes across. And that's sorta impossible you know? You enjoy a band's output for a long stretch of time, then you don't (due to whatever), but you're supposed to not care what they do any longer and just move on? Not really possible for most.
I mean, if that were true, I wouldn't have been a Dream Theater fan from 2003 until Distance Over Time. I didn't like what DT was doing post-Train of Thought really, but I hung in there, kept tabs on the band, listened to what they were doing, and eventually, they reeled me in again with something that connected.
Again, I don't think you meant what you said literally, but if you did, I think that's not really possible, nor a good idea. You move on, but you always keep tabs, because you never know what will connect with you.
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I don't think that's what he saying at all. If you read his entire post, he's basically saying not to go online and trash the band. You respectfully discuss the band and why you don't care for them now, and it's fine. Name-calling or trolling is another matter altogether.
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I don't think that's what he saying at all. If you read his entire post, he's basically saying not to go online and trash the band. You respectfully discuss the band and why you don't care for them now, and it's fine. Name-calling or trolling is another matter altogether.
I did read his entire post. As I have yours. And I agree with all of that.
But when G used that example of MP leaving DT, he liked what the band did and embraced Mangini because it was still his favorite band.
What I'm saying is that people can choose to do the opposite and still be vested (Tate pun intended) in what they are doing. :) What constitutes "spreading negativity" is very subjective. But I agree, there's no need for trolling or name-calling.
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I don't think that's what he saying at all. If you read his entire post, he's basically saying not to go online and trash the band. You respectfully discuss the band and why you don't care for them now, and it's fine. Name-calling or trolling is another matter altogether.
I did read his entire post. As I have yours. And I agree with all of that.
But when G used that example of MP leaving DT, he liked what the band did and embraced Mangini because it was still his favorite band.
What I'm saying is that people can choose to do the opposite and still be vested (Tate pun intended) in what they are doing. :) What constitutes "spreading negativity" is very subjective. But I agree, there's no need for trolling or name-calling.
I think the "just move on" was directed at the constant negativity. It's totally fine for you not to like anything from FII on but still follow the band and check out what they're up to. I did the same with Queensryche actually. I kind of convinced myself to like HITNF and Q2K for a while, but realized I wasn't very interested in playing them much. With each subsequent album, I just wasn't Into it. It probably took me awhile to even listen to dedicated to chaos, but I did eventually listen to it, "just in case." And I still didn't like it, but I guess QR is a band I'll always follow at least a little bit. But despite what I considered disappointment after disappointment, that doesn't mean that it would have been cool for me to go online and just bash them. Rationally discuss what I don't like? Sure, that's fair. But there's a way to do it without the vitriol. Which you seem to be well aware of, because your posts are pretty fair, and you don't insult those who do happen to like the stuff that you don't.
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I dont want anymore Tate or QR CDs, I truly think they are both finished, these are bands that have stayed too long and it diluting the memory of the band I think Chris was smart and Chris was the brain and talent and even he knew it was time to exit ( 23 years ago!!!! ). Both camps are strictly trying to pay bill and thats not conducive to making good quality music that is artistic or memorable. I think all parties involved would be embraced more ( maybe?) by not using the QR name . Tate doesnt need the name and should do his solo thing and the rest of them should start new and do this "yuck metal" thing free of a QR caparison . Let QR Be
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If you don't want anymore from them, then don't buy them and don't acknowledge them... but if they want to go on, let QR be, indeed.
There are some bands that were my musical bread and butter when I was younger, and nowadays are doing things that just leave me cold and sometimes even upset at how far they've fallen from where they used to be - Dragonforce, Sonata Arctica, some others come to mind - and I even share the opinion that, in some cases, I wish they'd just hang it up and stop. But there's a reason I'm simply just a fan who likes to share his opinions with others. I recognize that's all it is in the end, just another opinion. I may not buy their physical records anymore but they're still going strong and kudos to 'em.
And to the extent that's relevant to Queensryche... I dig the new sound and applaud them for sounding like they still have a fire under their ass.
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I dont want anymore Tate or QR CDs
For my own personal collection, I don't want any more Tate CDs. But that said, I hope he keeps doing what he is doing, because there is clearly a sizeable fan base that appreciates what he is putting out. For me, I just won't bother listening to it. But it's cool that he is still out there for those that do care.
For Queensryche, I hope they still keep putting out music as well. The first two Todd albums had elements that were a bit disappointing, but were albums I greatly enjoyed overall. The Verdict was pretty disappointing and not something I find myself listening to. But they've proven that they can write music I am interested in, so I will still follow, confident that I can likely find at least a few songs per album that I will like.
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If you don't want anymore from them, then don't buy them and don't acknowledge them... but if they want to go on, let QR be, indeed.
There are some bands that were my musical bread and butter when I was younger, and nowadays are doing things that just leave me cold and sometimes even upset at how far they've fallen from where they used to be - Dragonforce, Sonata Arctica, some others come to mind - and I even share the opinion that, in some cases, I wish they'd just hang it up and stop. But there's a reason I'm simply just a fan who likes to share his opinions with others. I recognize that's all it is in the end, just another opinion. I may not buy their physical records anymore but they're still going strong and kudos to 'em.
And to the extent that's relevant to Queensryche... I dig the new sound and applaud them for sounding like they still have a fire under their ass.
again may I ask how old you are? they are coming up on 40 years ,,, thats insane. and at some point a new album just is a reason to tour but with this band the fans seem to only want the first 5 albums so why bother? they dont make money on album sales and they are not a mega band like Maiden ,Judas, VH, Black Sab etc I dont even think those bands fans care for a new CD , granted I thought JPs Firepower was amazing but they dont need the money and somehow still make great music, at this point we all know QR is Latorre SOLO and Tate is Tate SOLO with other writers so why bother?
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If you don't want anymore from them, then don't buy them and don't acknowledge them... but if they want to go on, let QR be, indeed.
There are some bands that were my musical bread and butter when I was younger, and nowadays are doing things that just leave me cold and sometimes even upset at how far they've fallen from where they used to be - Dragonforce, Sonata Arctica, some others come to mind - and I even share the opinion that, in some cases, I wish they'd just hang it up and stop. But there's a reason I'm simply just a fan who likes to share his opinions with others. I recognize that's all it is in the end, just another opinion. I may not buy their physical records anymore but they're still going strong and kudos to 'em.
And to the extent that's relevant to Queensryche... I dig the new sound and applaud them for sounding like they still have a fire under their ass.
again may I ask how old you are? they are coming up on 40 years ,,, thats insane. and at some point a new album just is a reason to tour but with this band the fans seem to only want the first 5 albums so why bother? they dont make money on album sales and they are not a mega band like Maiden ,Judas, VH, Black Sab etc I dont even think those bands fans care for a new CD , granted I thought JPs Firepower was amazing but they dont need the money and somehow still make great music, at this point we all know QR is Latorre SOLO and Tate is Tate SOLO with other writers so why bother?
What does my age have to do with anything?
I'm just saying this: you don't have to buy or acknowledge the new stuff, that's your call and that's fine, but you don't have to act like everyone needs to agree with you. I like new QR and I thought Geoff Tate was great when I saw him sing with Avantasia last year. I don't have nearly as much emotional investment in the group as you do, but my take on the matter is just as valid as yours.
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I dont want anymore Tate or QR CDs
For my own personal collection, I don't want any more Tate CDs. But that said, I hope he keeps doing what he is doing, because there is clearly a sizeable fan base that appreciates what he is putting out. For me, I just won't bother listening to it. But it's cool that he is still out there for those that do care.
For Queensryche, I hope they still keep putting out music as well. The first two Todd albums had elements that were a bit disappointing, but were albums I greatly enjoyed overall. The Verdict was pretty disappointing and not something I find myself listening to. But they've proven that they can write music I am interested in, so I will still follow, confident that I can likely find at least a few songs per album that I will like.
I tend to agree Im sure there a few "nuggets" for each rabid fan on each camps releases , but to me its still not needed ,even Chris was getting hammered at the end for HITNF and "going soft" but that was what he was feeling and into artistically at the time and even today and the fans didnt allow him that freedom which to me was terrible, that to me was REAL QR Today QR is just crud metal and not very good at crud metal and it leaves me cold
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again may I ask how old you are? they are coming up on 40 years ,,, thats insane. and at some point a new album just is a reason to tour but with this band the fans seem to only want the first 5 albums so why bother? they dont make money on album sales and they are not a mega band like Maiden ,Judas, VH, Black Sab etc I dont even think those bands fans care for a new CD , granted I thought JPs Firepower was amazing but they dont need the money and somehow still make great music, at this point we all know QR is Latorre SOLO and Tate is Tate SOLO with other writers so why bother?
Actually, I believe this to be incorrect. The fans have been asking the band to play more of the recent material from the three albums with Todd. In 2019, the band made a big deal about the fact that they'd change the setlist to accommodate the new album. They played four songs from the The Verdict, and one each from Condition Human and the S/T (six total newer songs - the most they've ever put into a set from Todd's era).
Throughout 2019, the band dropped two of those newer songs and replaced them with songs from Mindcrime. Sometimes they only feature 3 songs from Todd's era instead of 4.
If I were Parker and Todd, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to have more of the newer songs included from the albums that they played on and wrote. I think Wilton (he seemed to be the one driving the desire for the original 2012 History setlist) is the one pushing the classic material to be the focus of the setlist. Not the fans. Though when all the band does is play shows with Vince Neil, Sebastian Bach, and some version of Great White, I can see why they're focusing on the nostalgia-laden set.
This has been my primary obstacle in enjoying the band's recent work. Yeah, they're great songs, but why even bother putting them out if you're not going to play them? I've seen them 10 times...I don't need to see certain songs played live yet again. I'd prefer to spend my money seeing a band that's going to give me something different, instead of the same show year after year.
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again may I ask how old you are? they are coming up on 40 years ,,, thats insane. and at some point a new album just is a reason to tour but with this band the fans seem to only want the first 5 albums so why bother? they dont make money on album sales and they are not a mega band like Maiden ,Judas, VH, Black Sab etc I dont even think those bands fans care for a new CD , granted I thought JPs Firepower was amazing but they dont need the money and somehow still make great music, at this point we all know QR is Latorre SOLO and Tate is Tate SOLO with other writers so why bother?
Actually, I believe this to be incorrect. The fans have been asking the band to play more of the recent material from the three albums with Todd. In 2019, the band made a big deal about the fact that they'd change the setlist to accommodate the new album. They played four songs from the The Verdict, and one each from Condition Human and the S/T (six total newer songs - the most they've ever put into a set from Todd's era).
Throughout 2019, the band dropped two of those newer songs and replaced them with songs from Mindcrime. Sometimes they only feature 3 songs from Todd's era instead of 4.
If I were Parker and Todd, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to have more of the newer songs included from the albums that they played on and wrote. I think Wilton (he seemed to be the one driving the desire for the original 2012 History setlist) is the one pushing the classic material to be the focus of the setlist. Not the fans. Though when all the band does is play shows with Vince Neil, Sebastian Bach, and some version of Great White, I can see why they're focusing on the nostalgia-laden set.
This has been my primary obstacle in enjoying the band's recent work. Yeah, they're great songs, but why even bother putting them out if you're not going to play them? I've seen them 10 times...I don't need to see certain songs played live yet again. I'd prefer to spend my money seeing a band that's going to give me something different, instead of the same show year after year.
I dint know this band even had "fans" LOL he old fan base has eroded and nobody I know even cares anymore. Im a big music guy so I dabble in caring but nobody I know would want to see them nor even know they have a new CD or even that they exist anymore sadly. like I said I like the "drama" LOL the music is secondary LOL
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If I were Parker and Todd, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to have more of the newer songs included from the albums that they played on and wrote. I think Wilton (he seemed to be the one driving the desire for the original 2012 History setlist) is the one pushing the classic material to be the focus of the setlist. Not the fans. Though when all the band does is play shows with Vince Neil, Sebastian Bach, and some version of Great White, I can see why they're focusing on the nostalgia-laden set.
This has been my primary obstacle in enjoying the band's recent work. Yeah, they're great songs, but why even bother putting them out if you're not going to play them? I've seen them 10 times...I don't need to see certain songs played live yet again. I'd prefer to spend my money seeing a band that's going to give me something different, instead of the same show year after year.
I always thought that, if they're gonna play the nostalgia set, they should at least switch up the eras/songs on their headlining tours. Playing a greatest hits set is fine if you're playing an 80's festival. For the rest, why not hype up a setlist full of RFO, Warning, etc stuff and play that for one run, then switch up for another... ?
I dint know this band even had "fans" LOL he old fan base has eroded and nobody I know even cares anymore. Im a big music guy so I dabble in caring but nobody I know would want to see them nor even know they have a new CD or even that they exist anymore sadly. like I said I like the "drama" LOL the music is secondary LOL
You're reading a thread full of "fans", I hope that should suspend your disbelief.
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If I may add -- the band has been pleaded with since 2013 to play more of the TLT era material. The problem is, its not the fans online who talk about them that make up the majority of the audience. The majority of their audience wants old material. It's just how it is.
I remember conversations about this early on. They are immensely proud of their new material. But whenever they play it, the energy isn't there from the crowd like it is for Queen of the Reich, Empire, etc. It's the makeup of the audience and what they seem to want to hear that makes doing a setlist really tough.
When they dropped the self-titled 2013 album, I recall pleading with them to just go out and ram the new material down peoples' throats. That record is like 39 minutes. Play that, and another 45 minutes of old classic stuff. Just make people want it. They never did that. I still think that was a mistake. If they just toured relentlessly, on a bus, in the clubs, and just kept hammering, it would have worked. But they aren't 20. They are 50+. So I get it. So the audiences they play to (fly in dates to casinos, short headline tours, and festivals) just aren't there to see the new stuff. They want the classics. So they do the old stuff.
To current QR's credit, they were trying to play more new stuff at the beginning of their headline runs. But if you look at their setlist on setlist.fm from Dec. 15, 2019 (a local Washington State casino gig), it tells the story: 17 songs. Only three from The Verdict, one from Condition Human, and ZERO from self-titled. The other 13 tunes are from EP-PL.
So as I said, I GET IT. They are trying to keep the energy up and still get the new tunes in. But the majority of the audiences they play for aren't hardcores. They are fans who just want the classics done. So QR tries to give them what they want, and keep themselves happy with a bit of the modern stuff. For me personally though, even though as "Queensryche" the current band isn't my thing, I'd love to see them do a 17 song set where 10 of the songs are from their modern TLT-era material, and they kept the nostalgia to the seven classics they know they have to play. The new material is good. It needs to be supported. But they are in a tough spot having to go on stage night after night, and watching people take piss breaks the moment they play something new. It has to be frustrating.
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If I were Parker and Todd, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to have more of the newer songs included from the albums that they played on and wrote. I think Wilton (he seemed to be the one driving the desire for the original 2012 History setlist) is the one pushing the classic material to be the focus of the setlist. Not the fans. Though when all the band does is play shows with Vince Neil, Sebastian Bach, and some version of Great White, I can see why they're focusing on the nostalgia-laden set.
This has been my primary obstacle in enjoying the band's recent work. Yeah, they're great songs, but why even bother putting them out if you're not going to play them? I've seen them 10 times...I don't need to see certain songs played live yet again. I'd prefer to spend my money seeing a band that's going to give me something different, instead of the same show year after year.
I always thought that, if they're gonna play the nostalgia set, they should at least switch up the eras/songs on their headlining tours. Playing a greatest hits set is fine if you're playing an 80's festival. For the rest, why not hype up a setlist full of RFO, Warning, etc stuff and play that for one run, then switch up for another... ?
I dint know this band even had "fans" LOL he old fan base has eroded and nobody I know even cares anymore. Im a big music guy so I dabble in caring but nobody I know would want to see them nor even know they have a new CD or even that they exist anymore sadly. like I said I like the "drama" LOL the music is secondary LOL
You're reading a thread full of "fans", I hope that should suspend your disbelief.
casual fans ,... I dont count everybody commenting as a hardcore "Ill go stand and see them and pay for tickets" type. I gotta say I wont do that for many bands anymore I just dont have the time or "fan " in me
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When I joined the thread yesterday, asking what about the set, I was kind of surprised they are only playing 3 new songs. It seemed from reading here that the new album was well received. For someone like me, wouldn't they want people to be introduced to the new songs?
For an example, Whitesnake had a new album and played 5 of the new songs for their headline set I saw last year. Most people didn't even review those songs very positively compared to what I've read about The Verdict. Yet, I feel like, that's what you should do. Play your newest stuff on tour supporting it. I've got to imagine someone hears those tunes and goes and buys the album after.
I get playing the hits too, there's plenty of set time to play hits or even rotate them.
I love how Iron Maiden has been rotating the second level hit songs and making room for 5 new songs on each album tour but they have their staples as well.
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If I may add -- the band has been pleaded with since 2013 to play more of the TLT era material. The problem is, its not the fans online who talk about them that make up the majority of the audience. The majority of their audience wants old material. It's just how it is.
I remember conversations about this early on. They are immensely proud of their new material. But whenever they play it, the energy isn't there from the crowd like it is for Queen of the Reich, Empire, etc. It's the makeup of the audience and what they seem to want to hear that makes doing a setlist really tough.
When they dropped the self-titled 2013 album, I recall pleading with them to just go out and ram the new material down peoples' throats. That record is like 39 minutes. Play that, and another 45 minutes of old classic stuff. Just make people want it. They never did that. I still think that was a mistake. If they just toured relentlessly, on a bus, in the clubs, and just kept hammering, it would have worked. But they aren't 20. They are 50+. So I get it. So the audiences they play to (fly in dates to casinos, short headline tours, and festivals) just aren't there to see the new stuff. They want the classics. So they do the old stuff.
To current QR's credit, they were trying to play more new stuff at the beginning of their headline runs. But if you look at their setlist on setlist.fm from Dec. 15, 2019 (a local Washington State casino gig), it tells the story: 17 songs. Only three from The Verdict, one from Condition Human, and ZERO from self-titled. The other 13 tunes are from EP-PL.
So as I said, I GET IT. They are trying to keep the energy up and still get the new tunes in. But the majority of the audiences they play for aren't hardcores. They are fans who just want the classics done. So QR tries to give them what they want, and keep themselves happy with a bit of the modern stuff. For me personally though, even though as "Queensryche" the current band isn't my thing, I'd love to see them do a 17 song set where 10 of the songs are from their modern TLT-era material, and they kept the nostalgia to the seven classics they know they have to play. The new material is good. It needs to be supported. But they are in a tough spot having to go on stage night after night, and watching people take piss breaks the moment they play something new. It has to be frustrating.
I agree ,,, its a dead end, the only pay day would be a 2 year run with Tate and Scott and end it, for me I dont even care if they did Id probably not go as Ill keep my memories intact
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When I joined the thread yesterday, asking what about the set, I was kind of surprised they are only playing 3 new songs. It seemed from reading here that the new album was well received. For someone like me, wouldn't they want people to be introduced to the new songs?
For an example, Whitesnake had a new album and played 5 of the new songs for their headline set I saw last year. Most people didn't even review those songs very positively compared to what I've read about The Verdict. Yet, I feel like, that's what you should do. Play your newest stuff on tour supporting it. I've got to imagine someone hears those tunes and goes and buys the album after.
I get playing the hits too, there's plenty of set time to play hits or even rotate them.
I love how Iron Maiden has been rotating the second level hit songs and making room for 5 new songs on each album tour but they have their staples as well.
Cram, I hear ya. You're like me -- if I was seeing them, I'd want to hear their latest stuff. The only way to get new fans is to go out and play that music and slug it out.
But that's not what they do, and what I said above was trying to illustrate why I think they don't. Trust me, for their music's sake, I wish they would just play their new material and rotate some hits. But proof is in the setlists. They just don't really rotate anything, and they just focus on what they know how to play easily.
Call that whatever description you want, but that's them, sadly, right now. I get it to a degree (as stated above), but if I were still a dedicated fan of this lineup of the band, I'd be pissed.
p.s. Cram -- they are starting a new headline tour, so if that is what you are attending (with John5 opening), I did read on social media that they are changing the setlist up, and getting more new stuff in. So hopefully they have done that, so you get more!
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like I said I like the "drama" LOL the music is secondary LOL
The only drama right now is the one you keep making in this thread :millahhhh
You're reading a thread full of "fans", I hope that should suspend your disbelief.
casual fans ,... I dont count everybody commenting as a hardcore "Ill go stand and see them and pay for tickets" type. I gotta say I wont do that for many bands anymore I just dont have the time or "fan " in me
Sorry we can't all be cool kids that have known the band since 1982 like you :police:
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When I joined the thread yesterday, asking what about the set, I was kind of surprised they are only playing 3 new songs. It seemed from reading here that the new album was well received. For someone like me, wouldn't they want people to be introduced to the new songs?
For an example, Whitesnake had a new album and played 5 of the new songs for their headline set I saw last year. Most people didn't even review those songs very positively compared to what I've read about The Verdict. Yet, I feel like, that's what you should do. Play your newest stuff on tour supporting it. I've got to imagine someone hears those tunes and goes and buys the album after.
I get playing the hits too, there's plenty of set time to play hits or even rotate them.
I love how Iron Maiden has been rotating the second level hit songs and making room for 5 new songs on each album tour but they have their staples as well.
Cram, I hear ya. You're like me -- if I was seeing them, I'd want to hear their latest stuff. The only way to get new fans is to go out and play that music and slug it out.
But that's not what they do, and what I said above was trying to illustrate why I think they don't. Trust me, for their music's sake, I wish they would just play their new material and rotate some hits. But proof is in the setlists. They just don't really rotate anything, and they just focus on what they know how to play easily.
Call that whatever description you want, but that's them, sadly, right now. I get it to a degree (as stated above), but if I were still a dedicated fan of this lineup of the band, I'd be pissed.
p.s. Cram -- they are starting a new headline tour, so if that is what you are attending (with John5 opening), I did read on social media that they are changing the setlist up, and getting more new stuff in. So hopefully they have done that, so you get more!
It's a dilemma for sure. If they don't play more new stuff, they lose some of the hardcores that still actively follow and like the new stuff. But if they don't play more of the classics, they lose the casual fans that mostly or only know the old stuff. And there are far more of the latter than the former, so that's the direction they go with. I tend to think there IS a sweet spot in the middle where they keep the lion's share of both. But it takes a lot more touring and effort than they are willing to put in at their ages, which you alluded to, and I get why they don't do it even though it is probably in their best interest to do that.
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Cram,
THey just released a lyric video for "Inner Unrest," one of the better ones from The Verdict.
https://youtu.be/tSnXabEh7Xg
So it's a sure bet they will probably play that one. If I were you, I'd pick up The Verdict for sure. I mean, even if they just do four songs, that's still 25 percent of the set.
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Yea, I actually meant to share that which I saw. Some of the new stuff I listened to earlier today was solid. And yes, I'm going to the new tour with John 5 (another reason why i scooped up the ticket) so I'll have to see
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I really loved the self titled and CH but The Verdict left me cold. I may have to revisit it. Might listen to all 3 albums actually. :metal
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The Verdict is a lot nicer than I remembered when it came out. Bent is a wonderful song.
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The Verdict is excellent.
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Just a quick message for Samsara and Queensr˙che playing with Judas Priest. I think we’re talking about 2 different tours. Priest did a headline tour in the UK in 2011 with Queensr˙che and Rival Sons as the two support acts. That’s the show I’m referring to and I think it was in support of the DTC album. They were just awful, not just Tate, the whole show was bad and I swore then that I was done with them. It’s also when I decided not to see Priest anymore too as they were also not the same without the chemistry of the KK Downing/Tipton guitar duo. Much better than QR obviously but Tipton and Downing were such an awesome partnership and it didn’t sound anywhere near as good without them. I do really like their last album though!
TLT coming in and a return to the classic material got me out to see QR again and it was much better but, despite the amazing vocal performance the band still lacked a bit of spark for me, it was all a bit lowkey.
Like I said I would probably see them again if they were playing locally but wouldn’t shell out serious money unless you were getting to see the original lineup playing the classic material. Sad to say as I’m not generally a nostalgia act guy but I never got to see them in that lineup as I got into the band after PL and was so disheartened by HITNF that I didn’t go to see them. My first show was the Q2K tour which was ok but nothing incredible, Kelly was not a good fit on stage.
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The Verdict is excellent.
Much better than I remembered.
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Just a quick message for Samsara and Queensr˙che playing with Judas Priest. I think we’re talking about 2 different tours. Priest did a headline tour in the UK in 2011 with Queensr˙che and Rival Sons as the two support acts. That’s the show I’m referring to and I think it was in support of the DTC album. They were just awful, not just Tate, the whole show was bad and I swore then that I was done with them. It’s also when I decided not to see Priest anymore too as they were also not the same without the chemistry of the KK Downing/Tipton guitar duo. Much better than QR obviously but Tipton and Downing were such an awesome partnership and it didn’t sound anywhere near as good without them. I do really like their last album though!
We are! Yep, I was thinking about six years prior to that. Sorry for the confusion. I forgot they toured with Priest after that killer 2005 tour. :)
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The Verdict is excellent.
Indeed it is.
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I wasn't too crazy about The Verdict, it seemed average in comparison to Condition Human. Maybe I should give it another listen.
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I instantly liked Condition Human, and I still like it, but don't find it as good as when I first heard it. The Verdict is the other way round, I was lukewarm when I first heard it but it got better with every listen, this record was a mighty grower. Easily my favorite out of the three TLT QR records.
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When I joined the thread yesterday, asking what about the set, I was kind of surprised they are only playing 3 new songs. It seemed from reading here that the new album was well received. For someone like me, wouldn't they want people to be introduced to the new songs?
For an example, Whitesnake had a new album and played 5 of the new songs for their headline set I saw last year. Most people didn't even review those songs very positively compared to what I've read about The Verdict. Yet, I feel like, that's what you should do. Play your newest stuff on tour supporting it. I've got to imagine someone hears those tunes and goes and buys the album after.
I get playing the hits too, there's plenty of set time to play hits or even rotate them.
I love how Iron Maiden has been rotating the second level hit songs and making room for 5 new songs on each album tour but they have their staples as well.
Cram, I hear ya. You're like me -- if I was seeing them, I'd want to hear their latest stuff. The only way to get new fans is to go out and play that music and slug it out.
But that's not what they do, and what I said above was trying to illustrate why I think they don't. Trust me, for their music's sake, I wish they would just play their new material and rotate some hits. But proof is in the setlists. They just don't really rotate anything, and they just focus on what they know how to play easily.
Call that whatever description you want, but that's them, sadly, right now. I get it to a degree (as stated above), but if I were still a dedicated fan of this lineup of the band, I'd be pissed.
p.s. Cram -- they are starting a new headline tour, so if that is what you are attending (with John5 opening), I did read on social media that they are changing the setlist up, and getting more new stuff in. So hopefully they have done that, so you get more!
John 5 is a BEAST. Hes gonna blow them off the stage, how is he an "opener"? Hes got mega mega talent..
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John 5 is a BEAST. Hes gonna blow them off the stage
Have to agree with this sentiment. I have been to a John 5 headline show. It is something to behold. His playing is otherworldly. I have all of his solo albums and his ability is just crazy.
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John 5 is a BEAST. Hes gonna blow them off the stage
Have to agree with this sentiment. I have been to a John 5 headline show. It is something to behold. His playing is otherworldly. I have all of his solo albums and his ability is just crazy.
agreed , to me IMO this was a real mistake of a pairing, as Wilton is so limited, Parker is better than Wilton and neither are real respected musicians like John 5 is , John 5 is a savant
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Yeah, definitely a bad pairing. John 5 is amazing. Nothing against Queensryche.
This may be out of left field here, I have always wondered why Casey Grillo decided to leave Kamelot, thought it was to get away from touring and to focus on his business. But, then he goes ahead and tours with Queensryche. The drumming with Queensryche is less taxing on his body then Kamelot, but still odd.
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Yeah, definitely a bad pairing. John 5 is amazing. Nothing against Queensryche.
This may be out of left field here, I have always wondered why Casey Grillo decided to leave Kamelot, thought it was to get away from touring and to focus on his business. But, then he goes ahead and tours with Queensryche. The drumming with Queensryche is less taxing on his body then Kamelot, but still odd.
Kamelot tours in a more traditional manner, spending a TON of time on the road overall. QR may do a 30 day run in a bus twice a year (when headlining, and maybe a European run or a month of festivals every few years), but then they just fly in and out of festival or casino shows 2-3 days a week for the rest of the time.
At the time he joined QR, they were pretty much doing only fly-in gigs and hadn't yet recorded or released the Verdict, so the touring was pretty scaled back.
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Yeah, definitely a bad pairing. John 5 is amazing. Nothing against Queensryche.
This may be out of left field here, I have always wondered why Casey Grillo decided to leave Kamelot, thought it was to get away from touring and to focus on his business. But, then he goes ahead and tours with Queensryche. The drumming with Queensryche is less taxing on his body then Kamelot, but still odd.
Kamelot tours in a more traditional manner, spending a TON of time on the road overall. QR may do a 30 day run in a bus twice a year (when headlining, and maybe a European run or a month of festivals every few years), but then they just fly in and out of festival or casino shows 2-3 days a week for the rest of the time.
At the time he joined QR, they were pretty much doing only fly-in gigs and hadn't yet recorded or released the Verdict, so the touring was pretty scaled back.
Makes sense. Nice Gig overall for him, make some money and play mostly classic Queensryche tunes. I'm pretty sure most of the guys in Kamelot were fans and heavily influenced by Queensryche back in the day.
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John 5 is a BEAST. Hes gonna blow them off the stage
Have to agree with this sentiment. I have been to a John 5 headline show. It is something to behold. His playing is otherworldly. I have all of his solo albums and his ability is just crazy.
agreed , to me IMO this was a real mistake of a pairing, as Wilton is so limited, Parker is better than Wilton and neither are real respected musicians like John 5 is , John 5 is a savant
I know none of his solo music, but I know he is a respected guitarist and I've seen him perform a few times with Rob Zombie. Him opening was a big reason why (plus a cheap cost) I am going to the QR show. I get to see two bands I probably wouldn't see on their own but together for a cheap price. I'm excited to see his set and happy to read that others here really like him.
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John 5 is a BEAST. Hes gonna blow them off the stage
Have to agree with this sentiment. I have been to a John 5 headline show. It is something to behold. His playing is otherworldly. I have all of his solo albums and his ability is just crazy.
agreed , to me IMO this was a real mistake of a pairing, as Wilton is so limited, Parker is better than Wilton and neither are real respected musicians like John 5 is , John 5 is a savant
I know none of his solo music, but I know he is a respected guitarist and I've seen him perform a few times with Rob Zombie. Him opening was a big reason why (plus a cheap cost) I am going to the QR show. I get to see two bands I probably wouldn't see on their own but together for a cheap price. I'm excited to see his set and happy to read that others here really like him.
I loved John 5s work with Rob Halford also , hes got a real ear for melody also
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Saw Queensryche Friday in a small club.
I thought they put on a really good show. Todd really puts in the effort. The rest of the band seemed really subdued.
I thought they sounded pretty damn good. Wilton seemed to have totally forgotten half the solo in Resistance I think.
John 5 was a fucking BEAST. So was his band. Fucking amazing show. Last song he kicks in to Limelight, then Freewill, and we are going crazy. Then it morphs into Spoonman, then some Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, and Pantera -Walk. Wow what an ending.
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John 5 was a fucking BEAST. So was his band. Fucking amazing show. Last song he kicks in to Limelight, then Freewill, and we are going crazy. Then it morphs into Spoonman, then some Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie, and Pantera -Walk. Wow what an ending.
Yep, the Creatures get it done too. John always tends to throw an epic instrumental medley in there towards the end of his shows. As much as I like QR, John and the Creatures will wipe the floor with them.
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Gotta admit, pretty good rendition of "No Sanctuary" by the current Queensryche. They (this lineup) had never played it live.
TLT sang it well here:
https://youtu.be/Syh0NaIi7TY
I saw it in 2001 at the Seattle fan club show and it was incredible.
As for the "revamped" setlist, I see Bent is added to the setlist, No Sanctuary, Prophecy, and Resistance too. I thought they previously played Dark Reverie, so I didn't count that one.
But then we have "Resistance"
https://youtu.be/C5THQMe7Uts
Musically it is fine. Wilton plays the solo fine (not sure what the complaint was about, sounds fine to me), and the drums are good. The vocals though - TLT is having difficulty on this one. Any singer knows this song is tough to sing. It's in the higher part of your register the entire time, where you breathe is key, and honestly, it is just a bitch to do. So big credit to TLT for trying it, but not sure this song is going to remain. You can tell he runs out of air, and is flat a bunch. Honest to goodness, its just a pain in the ass to sing. Tate had trouble with the first half of the song (he was off key) on the American Soldier tour, and it was dropped a half step. He was able to sing the second half on key though (back in 2009). So TLT struggling with it in the original tuning is not surprising. Just amazing how Tate sang it as the lead tune every night from 1990-1992. Really shows what kind of a singer he once was.
So a great credit to TLT for giving "Resistance" a run, but that song is a big pain in the ass, particularly if your lung capacity isn't pristine. I've heard a bunch of singers try it, and where you breathe is always a challenge. TLT is no exception (and I am terrified of how low Tate is going to have to drop it - not sure he can do it any longer either). I'm not a fan of TLT's vocals on the Empire songs, but if they want to play an Empire song, I'd say drop Resistance and go for something that gives him time to breathe. Anybody Listening? perhaps?
Regarding the setlist, four different songs added. The other 13 are recycled from the last several years. Looks like a fun night for those going.
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Wrong Show. I saw them the night before in Culture Room In Ft Lauderdale....and he did mess up pretty bad in a few spots on that solo. I guess he practiced it for the next day lol.
https://youtu.be/uy5WWlmCRBI?t=4946 (https://youtu.be/uy5WWlmCRBI?t=4946)
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Wow, them doing Resistance is unexpected and cool! But Samsara is dead-on about how difficult that song is from a vocal perspective. Yes, Tate struggled with it on the AS tour. But I would even say he struggled with it back on the Building Empires tour (although to a lesser degree). I think a singer trying to pull that off needs to intentionally change up the vocal melody/note choices in some spots in order to (1) stay in key, and (2) save vocal power for some pre-chosen "money notes" here and there.
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First listen of The Verdict today... actually pretty solid. I think the first time I really listened to Todd sing... and he reminds me of Geoff.
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I totally get what people say about Tate and Todd.. there is a difference. It seemed(in his prime) Tate just had a depth to his voice that Todd just simply doesn’t possess. But man did Todd pit on a great show. He really gave it his all and sounded great
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I totally get what people say about Tate and Todd.. there is a difference. It seemed(in his prime) Tate just had a depth to his voice that Todd just simply doesn’t possess. But man did Todd pit on a great show. He really gave it his all and sounded great
Glad you hear it too. And yes, Todd is a metal guy, and gets into it like he's one of the crowd, which makes sense, considering he basically was eight or nine years ago. Tate, at least up prior to MC II being released had this just bigger than life aura, where his presence and voice just hit you like a tidal wave. Both very cool stage presences, but totally different vibes.
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Tate had no problem giving me a fist bump last year, that's pretty metal for a guy coming off stage. Unlike Steven Wilson who was the only one in his band to not give me a fist bump. One thing I love about the venue I'm seeeing QR at, there's a side stage spot to chill if you want to meet the band right before/after the go on stage.
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Saw Queensryche over the weekend. Overall, a nice performance. I felt the band was the strongest on its new material. Some of the old stuff sounded pretty good, others not as much. But I had a good time. I'm glad I went. I hadn't seen them since Dec. 2013, so a bit over six years. It felt like Queensryche had become their own band, finally. I think that was due to the amount of new material being in the set. It felt like a true "album support" tour. I did a review here:
http://anybodylistening.net/theverdicttour-2020.html
The review includes three videos shot from distance with limited zoom (Resistance, No Sanctuary, Bent).
I've gotten to the point where for me personally, there's very much space in the musical world for Tate and Queensryche to co-exist. Tate does nostalgia runs. I'm very much looking forward to the Empire/RFO tour when he announces west coast dates for later this year. And if Queensryche continues to work in TLT era material, with the obvious hits in there, I think Queensryche fans get the best of both worlds.
The show this weekend reaffirmed what I had been feeling.
Anyway, if you dig The Verdict, make sure to go see Queensryche this time out. I really felt those four songs in the set were the highlight of the show, although as my review says, Screaming in Digital and Queen of the Reich both sounded really good. :)
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Hi Sam,
Ill be happy when both camps call it quits, its amazing to me they are still viable period, I hope Tate has fun singing as he was the true talent of the band, his voice was the hallmark. The old songs have been beaten into the ground, I do find it more interesting Tate is playing the whole CDs and that gives us rarity performances, but even that to me is not enough. Now with saying that I really have no idea what I want Tate to do , I guess more music like Sweet Oblivion. as for Latorres Band ( no need to even all it QR) I have zero interest and find them a terrible watch live. I chuckle when I hear people say they like his "growling " LOL ,,, IMO thats so far from what old Ryche was about, they were the opposite of that as to me they had a kind of elegance.
did you enjoy John 5? hes amazing and a great live act
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And if Queensryche continues to work in TLT era material, with the obvious hits in there, I think Queensryche fans get the best of both worlds.
The show this weekend reaffirmed what I had been feeling.
Anyway, if you dig The Verdict, make sure to go see Queensryche this time out. I really felt those four songs in the set were the highlight of the show, although as my review says, Screaming in Digital and Queen of the Reich both sounded really good. :)
Sam, that's good to hear. To me, Queensryche is useless unless they are carving a new road. Tate too, for that matter.
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Great review! :tup
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I saw them in early September and they were great. Their new songs from The Verdict were the highlight of the show! :tup
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Hi Sam,
Ill be happy when both camps call it quits, its amazing to me they are still viable period, I hope Tate has fun singing as he was the true talent of the band, his voice was the hallmark. The old songs have been beaten into the ground, I do find it more interesting Tate is playing the whole CDs and that gives us rarity performances, but even that to me is not enough. Now with saying that I really have no idea what I want Tate to do , I guess more music like Sweet Oblivion. as for Latorres Band ( no need to even all it QR) I have zero interest and find them a terrible watch live. I chuckle when I hear people say they like his "growling " LOL ,,, IMO thats so far from what old Ryche was about, they were the opposite of that as to me they had a kind of elegance.
did you enjoy John 5? hes amazing and a great live act
John 5 is an incredible guitarist. His act with the masks, makeup, and all instrumental stuff isn't my thing. But I very much appreciate his talent.
Regarding the rest of your point, perhaps you didn't read my review. I think the grit and growls have helped distinguish Queensryche's current era from what the original lineup was about. So yes, I agree, the original band was never about growls and grit. Those vocals were clean and operatic. That's not what this era of QR is about. They are two different beasts, particularly with Grillo on drums, who as I noted in the review, is much more a metal drummer. And while I will always have the original lineup on the pedestal as my favorite band, I do enjoy the original music from the TLT era of the band. Sure, I'm not as fond of some of the differences on the classic material, but I'm not going to see current Queensryche for the old songs. I went to see the new songs, which I like. If I want to hear the old songs, I'll go see Tate, and deal with not as good musicianship.
Sam, that's good to hear. To me, Queensryche is useless unless they are carving a new road. Tate too, for that matter.
It'll be interesting to see what they do next. TLT said during the show they have a hard time with the setlist, and weren't sure about playing four new songs. But they were received well at my show, so I am hoping they expand the TLT era material in the future. IMO, if you're going to play say 18 songs (one more than they currently do), six of them (one-third of the set) should be devoted to material from The Verdict, Condition Human, and QR 2013. I don't think that's a stretch, doing say 4-1-1 or 3-2-1, or 2-2-2, etc. But again, that's just me. I'm only there to see that stuff, and the rarities pulled out from the legacy catalog (this time being No Sanctuary and Resistance). If I had my way, current Queensryche wouldn't play any original lineup material except for three or four songs. I'd much prefer to hear 75 percent of the set be from the last three albums. But I don't represent the majority of their audience.
I will say though, that the crowd was very much engaged and into them the whole time. And while not sold out, the venue was pretty full. I think capacity is 900ish, and if I had to guess, I'd say it was about 800. There was enough room to stand without being squished, but the main GA area was full, as were the reserved areas. People seemed generally really happy with the performance. :)
Great review! :tup
Thanks bud. Appreciate you reading it.
Their new songs from The Verdict were the highlight of the show! :tup
:tup
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Nice review Samsara, looking forward to the show in a couple weeks. Really enjoying The Verdict as I've listened quite a bit now. I think those songs are definitely more what I want to see than the classics.
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I'll be seeing them next weekend in Myrtle Beach. Been listening to The Verdict in preparation for it. Didn't really grab me when it first came out (and no Scott Rockenfield didn't help) but I've warmed up to quite a bit of it. Not as good as Condition Human but still pretty good. Looking forward to it.
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Show is tonight for me :metal been loving the Verdict so looking forward to those tracks the most. Hoping I can be in my spot to get first bumps from the band
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(https://scontent.fphl2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/86327089_10121580572751104_825901874350653440_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=9nzG9c68wXQAX_t27Ma&_nc_ht=scontent.fphl2-2.fna&oh=f4cd1366652962d505fdda342cd7f55f&oe=5EB6E710)
Awesome show, full review later but for now... a pic with Casey and some songs...
Queensryche - Man the Machine LIVE @ Starland Ballroom NJ 2020 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv4s0694oIk)
Queensryche - Light Years LIVE @ Starland Ballroom NJ 2020 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlkxHYavgFA)
John 5 - Cover Medley with Peter Criss in the House LIVE @ Starland Ballroom NJ 2020 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRFgfc506gE)
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Just realized QR is playing with John 5 this saturday but sadly I'm going to be in Boston. I would've loved to see John 5 live and I'm curious how QR is live.
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Philly show isn't tell Wednesday, and although I knew I was going I had not yet gotten tickets. Couple of days ago I looked to secure them, and must have gotten there right as a new batch was released, pulled very first row.
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Woke up early and finished my full video...
Queensryche and John 5 Live @ Starland Ballroom NJ 2020 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B86vF7v02Lk)
Really fun night. Might have been one of the loudest shows though. My ears were ringing afterwards which is the first time I can recall in a long time and many concerts where that happened. Anyway, I got there in time for all of Eve to Adam's set. They were pretty decent, the singer reminded me of M Shadows from Avenged Sevenfold. Heavier than QR, with a really good guitarist. Definitely a solid opener (there were two other bands who I missed, but I'm guessing they were local). John 5 had quite the stage set up. Pretty cool to see the support act going all out like that on the small stage (QR stuff was behind his stuff). All instrumental music as expected, but damn if you are not mesmerized watching him play... I don't know what to tell you. VERY entertaining set. Cool lighting, cool stage, interesting attire, non stop shredding. He ended with a cover medley that was probably the most fun of the night with Peter Criss of Kiss in the venue who John 5 spoke about. Also, the bassist was really good too.
QR was next, they didn't come out the same way most bands do (used the other side) so I missed getting fist bumps or really getting to see them come on, other than the guitarist chugging a beer behind the stage :metal They sounded great IMO, Todd sang just fine. Didn't see or hear any negativity towards this version of the band from anyone in the building. Pretty good turn out. THey did have the one bar curtained off, but it otherwise felt pretty packed. At least 1k there IMO, maybe more and Todd kept mentioning that he was a bit shocked and excited for the big NJ turn out for them. I think it helped having John 5 as the opener, a few people I talked to were there just for him.
I really wish QR did more Verdict songs. I know that's just me and a newer fan so I'm not exactly what the majority of the crowd were looking for, but Light Years was probably my favorite of the set besides the OM songs, which came off really well. To compare to GT's version last year... I think QR were better at it. Sounded tighter and Todd seemed to do those songs justice. I'm sure everyone would love to see GT with the band, but since we aren't getting that, Todd seemed like a good replacement.
After the set, Casey came around and I was able to snap that pic with him. Wearing my Kamelot shirt he immediately noticed me. On my way out, I was looking at the merch and noticed they were selling John 5 signed masks... for only 30 bucks. I thought that was way more unique than a tshirt for about the same price so I snagged one. I think it's awesome and one of the coolest concert merch purchases ever. (and of course I am wearing it at the end of my video :yarr )
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQ4Ev72XYAAyzqW?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
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Glad you had a good time, Cram! I enjoyed QR's performance, but I am in agreement that more newer songs would have been preferable. But again, their audience is decidedly mixed between people who just want to see the old stuff, and people who really just want them to focus on the post-Tate lineup of the band.
To be honest, if they could just expand the set by three songs and 15 minutes, I don't see why they couldn't do one more song from The Verdict, one from Condition Human, one from the self-titled and mix them in the set, without introducing them. That way the post-Tate era releases are fully covered, with 7 songs, making up...almost one-third of the set list. But again, they feel they have to walk a very thin line.
The length of the show is confusing to me, I don't see why they need to keep themselves at 80-85 minutes. I don't think it's a stretch to go to 95, honestly. But I'm not in the band, so who knows.
Either way, glad you dug it. I had a good time as well.
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I'm guessing a 5 band show is why they aren't playing more than 90 minutes.
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I'm guessing a 5 band show is why they aren't playing more than 90 minutes.
The national tour is three bands. The venue probably added the other two as local support. As for the Ryche playing only 90 minutes, I am going to say that it is their choice. The three shows I have seen before I will catch Queensryche on Thursday all eclipsed (or will eclipse in the case of Y&T tonight, the other two being Crack The Sky and Machine Head) the two hour mark (MH going for almost three). If the band WANTS to play a longer set, they will. If they would rather load up the tour with openers and co-headliners and limit the time on stage, they can choose to do that. Having seen the TLT-version 12 times (with 13 and 14 coming up this year), I think it is a question of vocal stamina. Having seen the degradation in his vocal performance, I really don't think TLT can handle a set much longer than 90 minutes. That seems to be his sweet spot. Of the 12 times I have seen him front the band, 7 have been headlining and I don't think any one has ever eclipsed 90 minutes. Most come in around 80-85. And that is a shame given the wealth of material they have. This band should not be bringing out any opening act, let alone two as most of their headlining tours have had. I think they still have enough to cache to play "An Evening With..." and really give the fans who have stuck with them the kind of show they deserve.
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They could do a couple of soft acoustic versions and add a guitar solo or an instrumental piece at the end to let Todd have a breather....
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They could do a couple of soft acoustic versions and add a guitar solo or an instrumental piece at the end to let Todd have a breather....
A couple of acoustic tracks would be very welcome. I like the version of "Open Road" that appears on the The Verdict deluxe edition. Maybe add in an acoustic version of the closing track to The Verdict and something classic and now you have a really well-rounded set. Not that big a fan of guitar and drum solos. Mostly just noise that 99% of the time I don't find engaging. A full on instrumental jam would be pretty interesting and that I would be in favor of. A song like Della Brown could lend itself to that kind of an extended instrumental passage.
There are ways to be subtle about extending the show. This band is just way too comfortable at 85 minutes to really push it.
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what I saw recently of Latorre QR was IMO NOT GOOD. and it appears that John 5 wiped them out as far as the crowds enjoyment . The new songs are not crowd pleasers and the crowd seemed to not be into their set at all compared to the fun and enjoyment they had during the joy filled John 5 set of crowd pleasing riffs and visuals. I truly think the band should lose the QR moniker and be "lynch Mob" to Don Dokkens 'Dokken solo". to me the wind up for 'screaming of high notes" is not QR and IMO again its just not the QR experience and I dont care if its "QR part II" its simply not QR. especially with only Wilton and Jackson, who were far from the backbone of what I will refer to as the real QR. This Latorre Wilton band needs to just be a NEW band and carve their metal path IMO. what I saw was honestly sad and bad IMO.
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I saw QR recently and thought their set was more than 90 minutes. Maybe not by much, but I thought their set with Fates Warning was short so I noticed the time when the lights went down to when they were taking bows. I know some of that time is stage banter, etc, but the tour with FW had that too.
Just looked them up, and this tour has three more songs than that tour. And that's about what people were asking for last time, so they did deliver. Plus, they added some rarities this time around. I think they're making an effort. I would of course love to have a 2 hour show, but QR is now at least in line with a lot of other headlining bands.
In from the show I saw, Todd sounded great, and the crowd was most definitely into it.
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John 5 brings a different crowd and has an energetic performance. It's no doubt that the crowd is a bit more into it for him than an older mid paced prog metal band. Having said that, Todd sounded just fine at my show last weekend. Can't really say anything bad about his performance other than he's no comedian (He said so himself when there was a technical difficulty) :lol I do think the crowd was less into the Verdict songs than the others, but that's a given for almost any band performing new material.
If I had to choose, I do think I personally enjoyed John 5 more than QR, but that's not to the detriment of QR just that I thought John 5 was really fun. I've also stated here many times that I've never really been a big QR fan so I don't think it's surprising for me to have enjoyed John 5 more.
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John 5 brings a different crowd and has an energetic performance. It's no doubt that the crowd is a bit more into it for him than an older mid paced prog metal band. Having said that, Todd sounded just fine at my show last weekend. Can't really say anything bad about his performance other than he's no comedian (He said so himself when there was a technical difficulty) :lol I do think the crowd was less into the Verdict songs than the others, but that's a given for almost any band performing new material.
I don't know. I have been seeing Queensryche regularly since 1988. The one thing I always appreciated about the band was how much new material they always had in their set. 5-7 songs at least from whatever new album they were promoting (twice full albums got aired - Promised Land and O:MII). I think the only tour this didn't happen for was Dedicated to Chaos, and given the turmoil in the band and how poorly received that album truly was, that made sense. But all the TLT albums have been given their props, yet it feels like the band has completely lost confidence in its newer material. The 2013 S/T was short enough that on that tour the whole album could have, and in all reality should have, been played to make a real statement that the band is all about who they are now and not some nostalgia act. The shows should have a lot more emphasis on TLT-era material and much of it is quality enough and the history the band has I think gives them the room to play 5-7 new songs in addition to a set of classics. I do appreciate that the first leg of the Verdict tour had a good selection of newer material and am disappointed that this leg has reduced that number. If you extend the show, you can easily make a third to a half of it consisting of newer material and the rest some standards and then a few deep cuts to keep the show fresh. They have a great catalog and the new material stands up well. It is a shame they don't have the kind of confidence in their new material the way the band consistently had in the past.
Or maybe Queensryche should start doing something like what Iron Maiden or Coheed and Cambria have been doing: Album > tour for that album with an emphasis on new and recent material > throwback tour > rinse and repeat. I would be a lot more interested in a Queensryche show dominated by TLT-era material than another set of retreads (though I do give them some props for dusting off No Sanctuary and Resistance this time around as well, the former being the only reason I bought at ticket to Thursday's show to check it off the list, especially since it could be left out when they play M3 later this year).
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what I saw recently of Latorre QR was IMO NOT GOOD. and it appears that John 5 wiped them out as far as the crowds enjoyment . The new songs are not crowd pleasers and the crowd seemed to not be into their set at all compared to the fun and enjoyment they had during the joy filled John 5 set of crowd pleasing riffs and visuals. I truly think the band should lose the QR moniker and be "lynch Mob" to Don Dokkens 'Dokken solo". to me the wind up for 'screaming of high notes" is not QR and IMO again its just not the QR experience and I dont care if its "QR part II" its simply not QR. especially with only Wilton and Jackson, who were far from the backbone of what I will refer to as the real QR. This Latorre Wilton band needs to just be a NEW band and carve their metal path IMO. what I saw was honestly sad and bad IMO.
The two shows I have already seen on The Verdict tour cycle (last year in Baltimore and NYC), the TLT-era material was very well received. What shows were you at where they weren't?. And the few songs they have been playing over the years have been well-received when they get played (i have seen this line-up 12 times going back to the Return To History tour). The problem is they are not playing enough new material and when you set the expectation of being a nostalgia act, you are not encouraging your audience to buy and get to know the new material. That is one of the biggest blunders this version of the band has made - getting away from the tradition of playing at least five to seven songs from the new album the band was touring in support of. I think now it will be harder to reverse that because until the first leg of The Verdict tour, they relied too much on nostalgia in favor of playing new material and making a statement of who they are now. Not sure if they can get out from that hole, especially considering how they regressed on new/recent material for the second leg of The Verdict tour. Why get to know new material if the band isn't gonna play it?
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John 5 brings a different crowd and has an energetic performance. It's no doubt that the crowd is a bit more into it for him than an older mid paced prog metal band. Having said that, Todd sounded just fine at my show last weekend. Can't really say anything bad about his performance other than he's no comedian (He said so himself when there was a technical difficulty) :lol I do think the crowd was less into the Verdict songs than the others, but that's a given for almost any band performing new material.
I don't know. I have been seeing Queensryche regularly since 1988. The one thing I always appreciated about the band was how much new material they always had in their set. 5-7 songs at least from whatever new album they were promoting (twice full albums got aired - Promised Land and O:MII). I think the only tour this didn't happen for was Dedicated to Chaos, and given the turmoil in the band and how poorly received that album truly was, that made sense. But all the TLT albums have been given their props, yet it feels like the band has completely lost confidence in its newer material. The 2013 S/T was short enough that on that tour the whole album could have, and in all reality should have, been played to make a real statement that the band is all about who they are now and not some nostalgia act. The shows should have a lot more emphasis on TLT-era material and much of it is quality enough and the history the band has I think gives them the room to play 5-7 new songs in addition to a set of classics. I do appreciate that the first leg of the Verdict tour had a good selection of newer material and am disappointed that this leg has reduced that number. If you extend the show, you can easily make a third to a half of it consisting of newer material and the rest some standards and then a few deep cuts to keep the show fresh. They have a great catalog and the new material stands up well. It is a shame they don't have the kind of confidence in their new material the way the band consistently had in the past.
Or maybe Queensryche should start doing something like what Iron Maiden or Coheed and Cambria have been doing: Album > tour for that album with an emphasis on new and recent material > throwback tour > rinse and repeat. I would be a lot more interested in a Queensryche show dominated by TLT-era material than another set of retreads (though I do give them some props for dusting off No Sanctuary and Resistance this time around as well, the former being the only reason I bought at ticket to Thursday's show to check it off the list, especially since it could be left out when they play M3 later this year).
They could cure that by announcing that they"will be playing their Latorre releases in full, the last 2 albums, with an encore of the old hits". I think many go to the Latorre QR not even knowing there has been such change in direction, Id even say 20% still think Tates in the band when they go to the show. its not like this band is "known" anymore or any of their new material is played on the radio, etc. that way one can find out who really is supporting this latorre band. Tate is touring under Geoff Tate so the crowds he gets are his , he doesnt even get the pull of the QR name.
John 5's music I dont think many knew but his music just transcends and is so good you embrace it like many bands live .Ive seen so many bands and didnt know their new stuff or new from old songs but they still got me going, Im NOT seeing that all with the Latorre QR, plus IMO QR with Latorre is a not a very entertaining show, no matter how many screens they have, Tate knows how to entertain and the band has lost that element, and now with no SRock its mighty thin of stellar talent IMO. tio me a LIVE show is about seeing STARS and being entertained and not about "note for note"and thats where Latorre QR fails IMO, there is nothing I need to see with them and like I always say the "debate" is better than the music for both Tate and Latorre QR, but recent Tate is much better and it appears Geoff is on the upswing and bringing IMO a much more QR experience ( whatever that means LOL )
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John 5 brings a different crowd and has an energetic performance. It's no doubt that the crowd is a bit more into it for him than an older mid paced prog metal band. Having said that, Todd sounded just fine at my show last weekend. Can't really say anything bad about his performance other than he's no comedian (He said so himself when there was a technical difficulty) :lol I do think the crowd was less into the Verdict songs than the others, but that's a given for almost any band performing new material.
I don't know. I have been seeing Queensryche regularly since 1988. The one thing I always appreciated about the band was how much new material they always had in their set. 5-7 songs at least from whatever new album they were promoting (twice full albums got aired - Promised Land and O:MII). I think the only tour this didn't happen for was Dedicated to Chaos, and given the turmoil in the band and how poorly received that album truly was, that made sense. But all the TLT albums have been given their props, yet it feels like the band has completely lost confidence in its newer material. The 2013 S/T was short enough that on that tour the whole album could have, and in all reality should have, been played to make a real statement that the band is all about who they are now and not some nostalgia act. The shows should have a lot more emphasis on TLT-era material and much of it is quality enough and the history the band has I think gives them the room to play 5-7 new songs in addition to a set of classics. I do appreciate that the first leg of the Verdict tour had a good selection of newer material and am disappointed that this leg has reduced that number. If you extend the show, you can easily make a third to a half of it consisting of newer material and the rest some standards and then a few deep cuts to keep the show fresh. They have a great catalog and the new material stands up well. It is a shame they don't have the kind of confidence in their new material the way the band consistently had in the past.
Or maybe Queensryche should start doing something like what Iron Maiden or Coheed and Cambria have been doing: Album > tour for that album with an emphasis on new and recent material > throwback tour > rinse and repeat. I would be a lot more interested in a Queensryche show dominated by TLT-era material than another set of retreads (though I do give them some props for dusting off No Sanctuary and Resistance this time around as well, the former being the only reason I bought at ticket to Thursday's show to check it off the list, especially since it could be left out when they play M3 later this year).
They could cure that by announcing that they"will be playing their Latorre releases in full, the last 2 albums, with an encore of the old hits". I think many go to the Latorre QR not even knowing there has been such change in direction, Id even say 20% still think Tates in the band when they go to the show. its not like this band is "known" anymore or any of their new material is played on the radio, etc. that way one can find out who really is supporting this latorre band. Tate is touring under the Geoff Tate so the crowds he gets are his , he doesnt even get the pull of the QR name.
John 5's music I dont think many knew but his music just transcends and is so good you embrace it like many bands live .Ive seen so many bands and didnt know their new stuff or new from old songs but they still got me going, Im NOT seeing that all with the Latorre QR, plus IMO QR with Latorre is a not a very entertaining show, no matter how many screens they have, Tate knows how to entertain and the band has lost that element, and now with no SRock its mighty thin of stellar talent IMO
What TLT-era shows have you actually been to?
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John 5 brings a different crowd and has an energetic performance. It's no doubt that the crowd is a bit more into it for him than an older mid paced prog metal band. Having said that, Todd sounded just fine at my show last weekend. Can't really say anything bad about his performance other than he's no comedian (He said so himself when there was a technical difficulty) :lol I do think the crowd was less into the Verdict songs than the others, but that's a given for almost any band performing new material.
I don't know. I have been seeing Queensryche regularly since 1988. The one thing I always appreciated about the band was how much new material they always had in their set. 5-7 songs at least from whatever new album they were promoting (twice full albums got aired - Promised Land and O:MII). I think the only tour this didn't happen for was Dedicated to Chaos, and given the turmoil in the band and how poorly received that album truly was, that made sense. But all the TLT albums have been given their props, yet it feels like the band has completely lost confidence in its newer material. The 2013 S/T was short enough that on that tour the whole album could have, and in all reality should have, been played to make a real statement that the band is all about who they are now and not some nostalgia act. The shows should have a lot more emphasis on TLT-era material and much of it is quality enough and the history the band has I think gives them the room to play 5-7 new songs in addition to a set of classics. I do appreciate that the first leg of the Verdict tour had a good selection of newer material and am disappointed that this leg has reduced that number. If you extend the show, you can easily make a third to a half of it consisting of newer material and the rest some standards and then a few deep cuts to keep the show fresh. They have a great catalog and the new material stands up well. It is a shame they don't have the kind of confidence in their new material the way the band consistently had in the past.
Or maybe Queensryche should start doing something like what Iron Maiden or Coheed and Cambria have been doing: Album > tour for that album with an emphasis on new and recent material > throwback tour > rinse and repeat. I would be a lot more interested in a Queensryche show dominated by TLT-era material than another set of retreads (though I do give them some props for dusting off No Sanctuary and Resistance this time around as well, the former being the only reason I bought at ticket to Thursday's show to check it off the list, especially since it could be left out when they play M3 later this year).
They could cure that by announcing that they"will be playing their Latorre releases in full, the last 2 albums, with an encore of the old hits". I think many go to the Latorre QR not even knowing there has been such change in direction, Id even say 20% still think Tates in the band when they go to the show. its not like this band is "known" anymore or any of their new material is played on the radio, etc. that way one can find out who really is supporting this latorre band. Tate is touring under the Geoff Tate so the crowds he gets are his , he doesnt even get the pull of the QR name.
John 5's music I dont think many knew but his music just transcends and is so good you embrace it like many bands live .Ive seen so many bands and didnt know their new stuff or new from old songs but they still got me going, Im NOT seeing that all with the Latorre QR, plus IMO QR with Latorre is a not a very entertaining show, no matter how many screens they have, Tate knows how to entertain and the band has lost that element, and now with no SRock its mighty thin of stellar talent IMO
What TLT-era shows have you actually been to?
None ,.. I see zero reason to go , I did see QR in 1982 and many many many many times... the last QR show I saw was AS tour
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I'm going to see Geoff tomorrow night, if the fates agree (I'm traveling in the morning). It's a small place, and I'm going in full skeptical mode, as I did when I saw Last In Line in a bar with 100 other people.
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John 5 brings a different crowd and has an energetic performance. It's no doubt that the crowd is a bit more into it for him than an older mid paced prog metal band. Having said that, Todd sounded just fine at my show last weekend. Can't really say anything bad about his performance other than he's no comedian (He said so himself when there was a technical difficulty) :lol I do think the crowd was less into the Verdict songs than the others, but that's a given for almost any band performing new material.
I don't know. I have been seeing Queensryche regularly since 1988. The one thing I always appreciated about the band was how much new material they always had in their set. 5-7 songs at least from whatever new album they were promoting (twice full albums got aired - Promised Land and O:MII). I think the only tour this didn't happen for was Dedicated to Chaos, and given the turmoil in the band and how poorly received that album truly was, that made sense. But all the TLT albums have been given their props, yet it feels like the band has completely lost confidence in its newer material. The 2013 S/T was short enough that on that tour the whole album could have, and in all reality should have, been played to make a real statement that the band is all about who they are now and not some nostalgia act. The shows should have a lot more emphasis on TLT-era material and much of it is quality enough and the history the band has I think gives them the room to play 5-7 new songs in addition to a set of classics. I do appreciate that the first leg of the Verdict tour had a good selection of newer material and am disappointed that this leg has reduced that number. If you extend the show, you can easily make a third to a half of it consisting of newer material and the rest some standards and then a few deep cuts to keep the show fresh. They have a great catalog and the new material stands up well. It is a shame they don't have the kind of confidence in their new material the way the band consistently had in the past.
Or maybe Queensryche should start doing something like what Iron Maiden or Coheed and Cambria have been doing: Album > tour for that album with an emphasis on new and recent material > throwback tour > rinse and repeat. I would be a lot more interested in a Queensryche show dominated by TLT-era material than another set of retreads (though I do give them some props for dusting off No Sanctuary and Resistance this time around as well, the former being the only reason I bought at ticket to Thursday's show to check it off the list, especially since it could be left out when they play M3 later this year).
They could cure that by announcing that they"will be playing their Latorre releases in full, the last 2 albums, with an encore of the old hits". I think many go to the Latorre QR not even knowing there has been such change in direction, Id even say 20% still think Tates in the band when they go to the show. its not like this band is "known" anymore or any of their new material is played on the radio, etc. that way one can find out who really is supporting this latorre band. Tate is touring under the Geoff Tate so the crowds he gets are his , he doesnt even get the pull of the QR name.
John 5's music I dont think many knew but his music just transcends and is so good you embrace it like many bands live .Ive seen so many bands and didnt know their new stuff or new from old songs but they still got me going, Im NOT seeing that all with the Latorre QR, plus IMO QR with Latorre is a not a very entertaining show, no matter how many screens they have, Tate knows how to entertain and the band has lost that element, and now with no SRock its mighty thin of stellar talent IMO
What TLT-era shows have you actually been to?
None ,.. I see zero reason to go , I did see QR in 1982 and many many many many times... the last QR show I saw was AS tour
So how can you comment on how well the new material is being received live if you haven't been to a show where new material has been played to gauge the audience reaction to it? That is something being in the moment at the show gives you knowledge that a YouTube video cannot really capture. Just curious what exactly you are basing your opinion on.
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I'm going to see Geoff tomorrow night, if the fates agree (I'm traveling in the morning). It's a small place, and I'm going in full skeptical mode, as I did when I saw Last In Line in a bar with 100 other people.
I'll be seeing Geoff next Friday...
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what I saw recently of Latorre QR was IMO NOT GOOD. and it appears that John 5 wiped them out as far as the crowds enjoyment .
What TLT-era shows have you actually been to?
None ,.. I see zero reason to go , I did see QR in 1982 and many many many many times... the last QR show I saw was AS tour
:facepalm:
Not going to lie Epic, you come off as a hater. Go to a show and see for yourself if you are going to act like you have any idea what they are like live or to read the room.
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what I saw recently of Latorre QR was IMO NOT GOOD. and it appears that John 5 wiped them out as far as the crowds enjoyment .
What TLT-era shows have you actually been to?
None ,.. I see zero reason to go , I did see QR in 1982 and many many many many times... the last QR show I saw was AS tour
:facepalm:
Not going to lie Epic, you come off as a hater. Go to a show and see for yourself if you are going to act like you have any idea what they are like live or to read the room.
again the show is so bland IMO and there is NO STAR i want to see in the QR of today. No Tate, No Chris, No SRock, Not even Mike Stone who was kind unique, even Kelly had more QR pedigree ( Myth etc)current Latorre QR (who was no star) their music does not move me or give the emotional chill of classic QR and the shows are not the rock operas that Tate gave , Tate is and was a performer with one the greatest voices in Rock, whats left today ( Jackson and Wilton) are of no interest to see to me. I go to shows today to see Stars period, if not Ill just listen to the music. Thats MY OPINION AND VIEW ONLY. Im glad you enjoyed it !!! different strokes for different folks, Id always rather see the original singer or band even if they cant do it like they used to, then to see "replacements do it note for note" again just my opinion. I enjoyed the elegance of Tate and the softer songs even live , Latorre singing Tate leaves me flat, IMO the whole band is dull watch, The John 5 pairing really illustrated that IMO, I apologize if you perceive that as "hate" to me its just a fun discussion and this band tends to have a lot of "discussion and opinions" LOL
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You can have your reasons to not want to go, that's fine. But just don't act like you've been there and experienced it yourself.
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You can have your reasons to not want to go, that's fine. But just don't act like you've been there and experienced it yourself.
again I see no "experience" other than blaring multi media screens, I dont find any of them that good actually if were are being honest, John 5 Id see as he is crazy talented , a true star who has worked with so many great rockers and his show is loose and great. I was blessed enough to have seen the real QR on many epic tours .
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What TLT-era shows have you actually been to?
None ,.. I see zero reason to go , I did see QR in 1982 and many many many many times... the last QR show I saw was AS tour
In other words, you have no idea what you are even talking about when you say things like:
what I saw recently of Latorre QR was IMO NOT GOOD. and it appears that John 5 wiped them out as far as the crowds enjoyment . The new songs are not crowd pleasers and the crowd seemed to not be into their set at all compared to the fun and enjoyment they had during the joy filled John 5 set of crowd pleasing riffs and visuals.
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John 5 brings a different crowd and has an energetic performance. It's no doubt that the crowd is a bit more into it for him than an older mid paced prog metal band. Having said that, Todd sounded just fine at my show last weekend. Can't really say anything bad about his performance other than he's no comedian (He said so himself when there was a technical difficulty) :lol I do think the crowd was less into the Verdict songs than the others, but that's a given for almost any band performing new material.
I don't know. I have been seeing Queensryche regularly since 1988. The one thing I always appreciated about the band was how much new material they always had in their set. 5-7 songs at least from whatever new album they were promoting (twice full albums got aired - Promised Land and O:MII). I think the only tour this didn't happen for was Dedicated to Chaos, and given the turmoil in the band and how poorly received that album truly was, that made sense. But all the TLT albums have been given their props, yet it feels like the band has completely lost confidence in its newer material. The 2013 S/T was short enough that on that tour the whole album could have, and in all reality should have, been played to make a real statement that the band is all about who they are now and not some nostalgia act. The shows should have a lot more emphasis on TLT-era material and much of it is quality enough and the history the band has I think gives them the room to play 5-7 new songs in addition to a set of classics. I do appreciate that the first leg of the Verdict tour had a good selection of newer material and am disappointed that this leg has reduced that number. If you extend the show, you can easily make a third to a half of it consisting of newer material and the rest some standards and then a few deep cuts to keep the show fresh. They have a great catalog and the new material stands up well. It is a shame they don't have the kind of confidence in their new material the way the band consistently had in the past.
Or maybe Queensryche should start doing something like what Iron Maiden or Coheed and Cambria have been doing: Album > tour for that album with an emphasis on new and recent material > throwback tour > rinse and repeat. I would be a lot more interested in a Queensryche show dominated by TLT-era material than another set of retreads (though I do give them some props for dusting off No Sanctuary and Resistance this time around as well, the former being the only reason I bought at ticket to Thursday's show to check it off the list, especially since it could be left out when they play M3 later this year).
They could cure that by announcing that they"will be playing their Latorre releases in full, the last 2 albums, with an encore of the old hits". I think many go to the Latorre QR not even knowing there has been such change in direction, Id even say 20% still think Tates in the band when they go to the show. its not like this band is "known" anymore or any of their new material is played on the radio, etc. that way one can find out who really is supporting this latorre band. Tate is touring under the Geoff Tate so the crowds he gets are his , he doesnt even get the pull of the QR name.
John 5's music I dont think many knew but his music just transcends and is so good you embrace it like many bands live .Ive seen so many bands and didnt know their new stuff or new from old songs but they still got me going, Im NOT seeing that all with the Latorre QR, plus IMO QR with Latorre is a not a very entertaining show, no matter how many screens they have, Tate knows how to entertain and the band has lost that element, and now with no SRock its mighty thin of stellar talent IMO
What TLT-era shows have you actually been to?
None ,.. I see zero reason to go , I did see QR in 1982 and many many many many times... the last QR show I saw was AS tour
So how can you comment on how well the new material is being received live if you haven't been to a show where new material has been played to gauge the audience reaction to it? That is something being in the moment at the show gives you knowledge that a YouTube video cannot really capture. Just curious what exactly you are basing your opinion on.
You want me to really tell you? because they are not very good, and a horrible live show IMO, LOL, their new songs are meaningless to me, and they ere a "cover band" to some extent. again MY OPINION, but you asked LOL, I care less if Latorre hits some "note" and thats what so many seem to be stuck on, Im older now and it takes a lot to get me to go to a show and like I said QR has no star power, without the QR name I dont think they could draw what Tate draws period, but again MY OPINION and I love the debate and discussion
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What TLT-era shows have you actually been to?
None ,.. I see zero reason to go , I did see QR in 1982 and many many many many times... the last QR show I saw was AS tour
In other words, you have no idea what you are even talking about when you say things like:
what I saw recently of Latorre QR was IMO NOT GOOD. and it appears that John 5 wiped them out as far as the crowds enjoyment . The new songs are not crowd pleasers and the crowd seemed to not be into their set at all compared to the fun and enjoyment they had during the joy filled John 5 set of crowd pleasing riffs and visuals.
I have to go to the show to form an opinion? I can see the show is quite dull, I see the fans not really caring , I also saw the John 5 show was not dull and he sounded amazing. again long time fan since 1982. Ive watched many TLT QR shows and to me they are getting worse IMO, the original excitement has long faded it appears and the new songs are not embraced it appears
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@EPICVIEW....Tate's band is more of a cover band, don't you think? What new material is he playing?
Obviously current QR isn't really QR at all, but brother....let it go, man. Let the people who are enjoying them..enjoy them. Nobody is being fooled here. It is what it is.
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You can have your reasons to not want to go, that's fine. But just don't act like you've been there and experienced it yourself.
again I see no "experience" other than blaring multi media screens, I dont find any of them that good actually if were are being honest, John 5 Id see as he is crazy talented , a true star who has worked with so many great rockers and his show is loose and great. I was blessed enough to have seen the real QR on many epic tours .
Sometimes the music IS the experience. I recall the Return To Forever IV concert I went to. Four (sometimes five, depending on the song) guys on stage, no one really moving from their spots, all instrumental, nothing special in terms of the overall production of the concert, and it is hands down one of the best shows I have seen because the music is the experience. I fully appreciate you not wanting to go because the TLT-era of the band does not connect with you and for other reasons you state, but when you make statements like "the show is so bland" without actually having seen it, even once, your opinion really carries no weight in a conversation about how good or bad the show is on its own merits or in comparison to other Ryche performances. You really can't make a comparison from watching a YouTube (YouTube) video. That is not an experience. I can watch Queen at Live Aid and see a crowd hanging on Freddie's every movement and every note, captivated like no other has ever held an audience in the palm of their hand, but I really can't speak authoritatively about the "experience" because I was not in Wembley that day. Watching it on TV or DVD doesn't give me any basis of comparison because it is a completely different experience watching a video versus being there in the moment. TV has captured it and there is a lot to be said for that, but can I really speak about the experience by not being there? Not really.
Why you don't want to go, I get. You criticizing something you have never experienced for yourself, therefor having zero context for an opinion you are trying to express about the experience is pure conjecture on your part. You think the show will be bland, so you argue that it is, even though for many, the show is far from that because they are actually there to judge it for themselves, not simply project an extension of why they don't like the current state of the band and simply assume for themselves the show is bland.
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@EPICVIEW....Tate's band is more of a cover band, don't you think? What new material is he playing?
Obviously current QR isn't really QR at all, but brother....let it go, man. Let the people who are enjoying them..enjoy them. Nobody is being fooled here. It is what it is.
I hear you bro , You can make that argument but Tates like Coverdale he is QR like Coverdale is WS,
I like the discussion actually as its fun subject and everyone can have an opinion. to be honest I dont even want the to reunite anymore. TBH this band should have retired 15 year ago IMO as they are ruining the legacy
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I can see the show is quite dull, I see the fans not really caring
Yeah, you're right--we shouldn't let ourselves be fooled by all that cheering, headbanging, and the positive reviews from fans who were actually there. :lol The guy who has never seen a show clearly knows better.
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You can have your reasons to not want to go, that's fine. But just don't act like you've been there and experienced it yourself.
again I see no "experience" other than blaring multi media screens, I dont find any of them that good actually if were are being honest, John 5 Id see as he is crazy talented , a true star who has worked with so many great rockers and his show is loose and great. I was blessed enough to have seen the real QR on many epic tours .
Sometimes the music IS the experience. I recall the Return To Forever IV concert I went to. Four (sometimes five, depending on the song) guys on stage, no one really moving from their spots, all instrumental, nothing special in terms of the overall production of the concert, and it is hands down one of the best shows I have seen because the music is the experience. I fully appreciate you not wanting to go because the TLT-era of the band does not connect with you and for other reasons you state, but when you make statements like "the show is so bland" without actually having seen it, even once, your opinion really carries no weight in a conversation about how good or bad the show is on its own merits or in comparison to other Ryche performances. You really can't make a comparison from watching a YouTube (YouTube) video. That is not an experience. I can watch Queen at Live Aid and see a crowd hanging on Freddie's every movement and every note, captivated like no other has ever held an audience in the palm of their hand, but I really can't speak authoritatively about the "experience" because I was not in Wembley that day. Watching it on TV or DVD doesn't give me any basis of comparison because it is a completely different experience watching a video versus being there in the moment. TV has captured it and there is a lot to be said for that, but can I really speak about the experience by not being there? Not really.
Why you don't want to go, I get. You criticizing something you have never experienced for yourself, therefor having zero context for an opinion you are trying to express about the experience is pure conjecture on your part. You think the show will be bland, so you argue that it is, even though for many, the show is far from that because they are actually there to judge it for themselves, not simply project an extension of why they don't like the current state of the band and simply assume for themselves the show is bland.
Thats cool bro and I get your point, ive seen so many bands your right many just stand there and do their thing. I get it I do and you are as correct as I am. Im older and dont have the time and again Id go see Ozzy try to sing and Im wanting to see Judas again as they are ICONS and Rob is the metal God and I pray for Glenn but QR just has no draw at all to me, its a shame I really have tried but but the Verdict ( I own it) is meh and the show is not for me.
Thank you for the fun talk and Im glad you enjoy it
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I can see the show is quite dull, I see the fans not really caring
Yeah, you're right--we shouldn't let ourselves be fooled by all that cheering, headbanging, and the positive reviews from fans who were actually there. :lol The guy who has never seen a show clearly knows better.
again just my opinion Boss. reviews of shows I dont even read TBH. ive probably been to 80 - 100 metal shows , who knows actually.
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I saw Geoff Tate's Operation Mindcrime last June at the same venue I just saw QR. I'm actually watching my video of it to refresh my memory.
The entire side curatin was down for GT's show, only partially down to block one of the two side bars for QR. I definitely think this was helped by having a support act like John 5 to bring in more people. So not totally fair to compare QR to GT but at the same time, QR was pretty packed and was noted a couple times by Todd.
Geoff is a better entertainer than Todd. Geoff is much more animated and active in his performance. I think Todd however sounds better, not by enough to say I'd rather him in the band over the original singer though. But Todd sounds good and the music they are making with him is solid. It's not a cover band if they are writing and performing original music. It's also not the original QR. However, if Geoff and QR are not able to make it work together, having them both do their own thing is probably the best of both worlds. The QR band sounded much better than GT's band as a whole as well.
Also the comparison of John 5 to QR is a bit unfair. Not really similar music. QR is not bringing an active crowd. The GT show wasn't anymore active. The John 5 crowd wasn't terribly active either until he did the cover medley which brought out familiar riffs (and John 5 himself was animated, calling everyone MoFos :lol). There was a not a lot of overlap between fan bases either. If people aren't really engaging during the QR set, it's probably because they don't know the songs. I honestly was in this catagory for all of John 5 and about 5 or so QR songs.
Also, you can't see it... but GT did walk by and give me a fist bump coming off stage https://youtu.be/uSUuazGpcWg?t=1920 (https://youtu.be/uSUuazGpcWg?t=1920) other than Casey, none of the QR guys interacted with people after the show that I saw (I could have missed it). Defintiely adds to my opinion that GT is a better entertainer, his shows much more emotion.
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I saw Geoff Tate's Operation Mindcrime last June at the same venue I just saw QR. I'm actually watching my video of it to refresh my memory.
The entire side curatin was down for GT's show, only partially down to block one of the two side bars for QR. I definitely think this was helped by having a support act like John 5 to bring in more people. So not totally fair to compare QR to GT but at the same time, QR was pretty packed and was noted a couple times by Todd.
Geoff is a better entertainer than Todd. Geoff is much more animated and active in his performance. I think Todd however sounds better, not by enough to say I'd rather him in the band over the original singer though. But Todd sounds good and the music they are making with him is solid. It's not a cover band if they are writing and performing original music. It's also not the original QR. However, if Geoff and QR are not able to make it work together, having them both do their own thing is probably the best of both worlds. The QR band sounded much better than GT's band as a whole as well.
Also the comparison of John 5 to QR is a bit unfair. Not really similar music. QR is not bringing an active crowd. The GT show wasn't anymore active. The John 5 crowd wasn't terribly active either until he did the cover medley which brought out familiar riffs (and John 5 himself was animated, calling everyone MoFos :lol). There was a not a lot of overlap between fan bases either. If people aren't really engaging during the QR set, it's probably because they don't know the songs. I honestly was in this catagory for all of John 5 and about 5 or so QR songs.
Also, you can't see it... but GT did walk by and give me a fist bump coming off stage https://youtu.be/uSUuazGpcWg?t=1920 (https://youtu.be/uSUuazGpcWg?t=1920) other than Casey, none of the QR guys interacted with people after the show that I saw (I could have missed it). Defintiely adds to my opinion that GT is a better entertainer, his shows much more emotion.
Thats cool bro , Im glad you enjoyed all of them!!! thats nice GT gave ya a fist bump!!!
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I also thought Geoff was pretty good with Avantasia. I definitely enjoyed the QR show overall more (but I think John 5 was the difference, if you put him before GT, I'd probably follow because a good opener adds a lot to a show), but they both offer something and you don't need to like both or either.
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This both/either/neither thing brings to mind a blog I recently wrote on that very topic:
Bring Up the Lights: The Need for Unity and a Queensryche Fan's Confession - http://anybodylistening.net/bringupthelights.html
It's a little personal, but I think given some of the back and forth here, folks might get something out of it.
B
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That kind of approach is a breath of fresh air, and I wish there was more of it
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praise on that last paragraph
and it's not limited to QR. The whole metal community is like this for way too many bands and it definitely hurts the genre as a whole. QR is one of many examples.
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This both/either/neither thing brings to mind a blog I recently wrote on that very topic:
Bring Up the Lights: The Need for Unity and a Queensryche Fan's Confession - http://anybodylistening.net/bringupthelights.html
It's a little personal, but I think given some of the back and forth here, folks might get something out of it.
B
:tup :tup :tup
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I also thought Geoff was pretty good with Avantasia. I definitely enjoyed the QR show overall more (but I think John 5 was the difference, if you put him before GT, I'd probably follow because a good opener adds a lot to a show), but they both offer something and you don't need to like both or either.
I agree. Its great that you saw and enjoyed them all. ... you rock!
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I'm going to see Geoff tomorrow night, if the fates agree (I'm traveling in the morning). It's a small place, and I'm going in full skeptical mode, as I did when I saw Last In Line in a bar with 100 other people.
Very interested in your thoughts, review.
enjoy!
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Unfortunately bailed at the last minute; I was flying in from Atlanta, and my friend had a client dinner that he had to attend. We were going to meet up after and go to the show. Alas, schedules and fate were not in our favor. The flight was late, the dinner was late, and at about 9:00 or so we pulled the plug. I'm bummed, but I'm not. I was looking forward to it, though if I'm being honest, I was looking forward to it in a skeptical way. That's probably not a good way to go into a show.
Anyway, I have front row to Squeeze tomorrow night, so there's that to look forward to.
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You have to squeeze into the front row??
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You have to squeeze into the front row??
You know it; I never did lose that holiday weight. :)
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You have to squeeze into the front row??
You know it; I never did lose that holiday weight. :)
Looking back from pictures when I first saw Queensryche to now, I'd say each year, we never lose that holiday weight my friend. :lol
Bummer you didn't get to see the show. But they tour so much, if you ever feel like going, it probably won't be a big deal to get a ticket to something eventually.
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Anyway, I have front row to Squeeze tomorrow night, so there's that to look forward to.
My older brother would be very envious right now; he is a big Squeeze fan (I am a lukewarm fan).
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Good show last night. Had a great time. Enjoyed Eve To Adam. John 5 wasn't really my thing, but for what he does, it was alright. Loved Queensryche. First time getting to see them with Todd (as well as Parker and, of course Casey). Being a musician and a lifelong Queensryche fan, I was definitely paying attention. Not that I was expecting note-for-note. Just hoping for something close/as good. I wasn't disappointed. Parker nailed one of my favorite DeGarmo solos (second solo in "Mindcrime"). Todd did really well. He did struggle a little bit but, overall, really good performance.
Took a few not so great pics and some sorta decent video. Mostly solo sections (being a guitar player) and "Light Years", my favorite from the new record. :metal
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but QR just has no draw at all to me
We know. You don't have to keep sharing your opinion every time there's a bit of activity on this thread to get that point across :yeahright
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but QR just has no draw at all to me
We know. You don't have to keep sharing your opinion every time there's a bit of activity on this thread to get that point across :yeahright
Its what we do we share our opinions.. The Philly show looked like a complete disaster,
what is your opinion? I was fan of this band since 1982 when I saw them for the first time
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Good show last night. Had a great time. Enjoyed Eve To Adam. John 5 wasn't really my thing, but for what he does, it was alright. Loved Queensryche. First time getting to see them with Todd (as well as Parker and, of course Casey). Being a musician and a lifelong Queensryche fan, I was definitely paying attention. Not that I was expecting note-for-note. Just hoping for something close/as good. I wasn't disappointed. Parker nailed one of my favorite DeGarmo solos (second solo in "Mindcrime"). Todd did really well. He did struggle a little bit but, overall, really good performance.
Took a few not so great pics and some sorta decent video. Mostly solo sections (being a guitar player) and "Light Years", my favorite from the new record. :metal
To Parker's credit, out of the three people who have taken on DeGarmo's position in the band, he's the one that I feel has most respected it. I mean, Kelly Gray and Mike Stone may have been told to make it their own, and they did that. But Parker went out of his way to really learn all of Chris' stuff, and do it all justice, with a bit of his own personality and style injected into it. I noticed that back in 2009 on the American Soldier tour. Wilton did most of Chris's single solos (and still does), but when they did a trade off one, you could tell that Parker did his homework and tried to be as faithful as he could without seeming like a clone. And I've always really respected that.
Glad you had a good time at the gig. Light Years is a great tune. The whole Verdict record is a solid slab of proggy metal.
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The Philly show looked like a complete disaster
And judging by last week's discussion, you likely weren't there and are basing this on your own preconceived notions that these shows aren't going over well. Can you expand on why last week's Philly show was a complete disaster?
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but QR just has no draw at all to me
We know. You don't have to keep sharing your opinion every time there's a bit of activity on this thread to get that point across :yeahright
Its what we do
No, it really isn't. And you've been warned already, many times, so this is the last one. Just repeating the same opinion over and over again is simply trolling, not discussion. There is a difference between the two, and it is a fairly significant one.
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I saw Geoff Tate a few nights ago at a great little venue called The Warehouse in CT. It was a blast. His voice sounded a little thin at times, but he went for most of the high notes and seemed to be having a great time. The place was packed too, and the crowd was very into it.
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Tate didn't hold back on what he thinks the prospects of DeGarmo and Rockenfield returning are.
I wrote up a blog on the QR-specific news and added some additional info and insight. Check it out here - http://anybodylistening.net/tateondegarmo-2020.html
Original Q&A here - https://www.metal-rules.com/2020/02/25/geoff-tate-discusses-the-empire-30th-anniversary-tour-operation-mindcrime-avantasia-trinity-and-much-more/
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That was a good interview.
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That was a good interview.
Agreed. They covered a ton of ground. The only thing I wished they asked was WHAT IS IN the Empire box set. Tate probably can't say anything yet, but doesn't hurt to ask anyway.
I know it was mostly joking on Tate's part, but I hope he does seriously think about doing a Promised Land/American Soldier tour. I'm not sure such a tour would sell, however. They aren't exactly popular records. But PL is one of the tops in QR's catalog for me, and I dig American Soldier, its missing perspective aside. I'd be all over that if he did it.
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The hardcores love Promised Land, but I'm not sure how many of the casual fans even know it, so I don't think PL/AS would be a draw, unfortunately. I think he'd be smart to pair it with maybe "selections" from a couple of the more popular classic albums. But I dunno. The problem with these nostalgia tours is that you saturate the market with the most popular albums, and then aren't left with anything to draw from that people haven't seen recently. He just did Mindcrime, and is now doing Empire and Rage. He could still pull from those albums, but can't rely too heavily on them again so soon.
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That was a good interview.
Agreed. They covered a ton of ground. The only thing I wished they asked was WHAT IS IN the Empire box set. Tate probably can't say anything yet, but doesn't hurt to ask anyway.
I know it was mostly joking on Tate's part, but I hope he does seriously think about doing a Promised Land/American Soldier tour. I'm not sure such a tour would sell, however. They aren't exactly popular records. But PL is one of the tops in QR's catalog for me, and I dig American Soldier, its missing perspective aside. I'd be all over that if he did it.
Pick your album as the anchor (He has a long way to go to beat Empire to death as he has O:M) and swap in PL for Rage. Or just do a set 50-minute set of post Empire stuff. There are a lot of songs from the back end of the catalog that still deserve some exposure.
But in all reality, given how well he is singing these days, he can really structure a tour that doesn't need an album as an anchor. The show right now is 24 songs. I think he could come up with something similar in scope and depth to the acoustic tour.
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Published a comparison review of the Queensryche and Geoff Tate tours this morning on AnybodyListening.net. Get the tale of the tape between these two acts here:
http://anybodylistening.net/taleofthetape-2020.html
Great balance by the writer. Cool take on how to do the review, given he was seeing both acts in a span of just over a week.
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I don't know man... As far as I know Scott has kept a complete radio silence since he went on hiatus from the band. Sure it seems like that he's having hard times in his personal life, but if he's not willing to talk about it, leave him be. Geoff talking like that makes him seem even a bigger jerkass he already is to me.
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I don't know man... As far as I know Scott has kept a complete radio silence since he went on hiatus from the band. Sure it seems like that he's having hard times in his personal life, but if he's not willing to talk about it, leave him be. Geoff talking like that makes him seem even a bigger jerkass he already is to me.
Agreed. I did question that too. Tate could have just said that he "doesn't know" and added that "you'd have to contact Scott directly." Not sure why he needed to share that medical info, and previously, when he said Scott was in a "dark place." I'm no fan of Queensryche saying Scott is on "parental leave," because that's obviously not really the case any longer either. But at least they aren't putting out negative info on the man. Here's hoping Tate fixes his answers moving forward.
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[I'm no fan of Queensryche saying Scott is on "parental leave," because that's obviously not really the case any longer either. But at least they aren't putting out negative info on the man.
TI don't think they've used the "parental leave" angle for a while. The last radio interview I heard with Todd (either on The Classic Metal Show podcast or Eddie Trunk's Volume show, I can't remember which it was), he basically said, they don't know what the deal is because he hasn't communicated with anyone in the band for a while. Truly bizarre. I wish he would simply speak with someone to put out there why he's no longer in the band. Hopefully, what Tate has said is not the case and he's doing okay.
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The hardcores love Promised Land, but I'm not sure how many of the casual fans even know it,
I'm hardcore, and I've never heard of it.
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Well the state won't allow big events, so our local Blarney Bash was cancelled. Queensryche was playing along with Vixen. They announced it in the afternoon, the band was there at the casino, my uncle who works there said 2 of them went to eat.
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I don't think they've used the "parental leave" angle for a while. The last radio interview I heard with Todd (either on The Classic Metal Show podcast or Eddie Trunk's Volume show, I can't remember which it was), he basically said, they don't know what the deal is because he hasn't communicated with anyone in the band for a while. Truly bizarre. I wish he would simply speak with someone to put out there why he's no longer in the band. Hopefully, what Tate has said is not the case and he's doing okay.
You're right. They've said "personal" leave for the last year, I think. My mistake. Which is...the perfect term for it when any sort of answer (which I firmly believe they know EXACTLY what's going on with Rockenfield) would create more questions.
The hardcores love Promised Land, but I'm not sure how many of the casual fans even know it,
I'm hardcore, and I've never heard of it.
Dick. :lol
Promised Land is an AMAZING album. You're just too :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal to appreciate it. Or is that just plain OLD? :P :rollin
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It's not that he's too :metal He's just myopic when it comes to musical tastes.
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The hardcores love Promised Land, but I'm not sure how many of the casual fans even know it,
I'm hardcore, and I've never heard of it.
Dick. :lol
Promised Land is an AMAZING album. You're just too :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal to appreciate it. Or is that just plain OLD? :P :rollin
Promised Land was the album that killed my QR fandom. There's only two songs I have any interest in listening to (I Am I and Damaged).
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Our Constitution absolutely protects the right to hold objectively bad opinions about music, P.G. We don't hold it against you.
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Our Constitution absolutely protects the right to hold objectively bad opinions about music, P.G. We don't hold it against you.
Exactly. Although we can say PG and TAC both have incredibly shitty taste. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:yarr
;)
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That's okay. More Promised Land for me that I don't have to share.
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Our Constitution absolutely protects the right to hold objectively bad opinions about music, P.G. We don't hold it against you.
Exactly. Although we can say PG and TAC both have incredibly shitty taste. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:yarr
;)
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3og0IvN0sGImbQgqIg/giphy.gif)
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Promised Land is amazing. It has the dark experimental vibe of RFO.
It’s like Rage, but with a better budget.
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Promised Land is amazing. It has the dark experimental vibe of RFO.
It’s like Rage, but with a better budget.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/8uw7IdKfHDVPG/giphy.gif)
The hardcores love Promised Land, but I'm not sure how many of the casual fans even know it,
I'm hardcore, and I've never heard of it.
Dick. :lol
:rollin :rollin
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aCVucwk1fk2KYUg/giphy.gif)
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Promised Land is amazing. It has the dark experimental vibe of RFO.
It’s like Rage, but with a better budget.
Yep, it has that vibe for sure. It's less technical and more moody, but has those RFO echoes for sure. And it's distinctly Queensryche at the end of their peak.
TAC - that Brady gif is a low blow my man. LOW. :lol
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Promised Land is amazing. It has the dark experimental vibe of RFO.
It’s like Rage, but with a better budget.
Great description.
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TAC - that Brady gif is a low blow my man. LOW. :lol
:lol
I was looking for a gif to respond with, and as soon as I saw that..Bam! That's the one! :lol
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Promised Land is amazing. It has the dark experimental vibe of RFO.
It’s like Rage, but with a better budget.
Great description.
PL is a very good album. The only thing letting it down is Dis.con.nec.ted. Hated it then, hate it now.
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Oh man I ***LOVE*** Dis. Con. Nec. Ted.!! In fact that was the song that made me appreciate the album as a whole. Because up until that song, I hadn’t heard anything “creepy and weird” yet, and I was going to be really Dis. A. Poin. Ted. if I didn’t get it.
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I've always found Disconnected to be "average" as a standalone song (which is why I always questioned why it was a promotional single). But I totally dig in the context of the record. It fits the vibe completely.
I only had two wishes for Promised Land -- that "Real World" was included on it (it would fit, and was written in 1993, so its in the same timeframe), and that the record had another banger on it like Damaged. Outside of that, just an amazing record. I have the 24x36 poster of the record framed and displayed at my office. Everyone thinks the artwork is amazing, and those who dig hard rock have always said the album was good, just "kinda depressing." :lol
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I love the art and I could say I think it's "good" - I enjoy a number of tracks - but for me it was a big disappointment after the legendary run of albums leading in. Real World would improve my rating and One More Time is a Top 20 QR song for me but Promised Land was the first time in my life I used a thing called the Skip button on a Queensryche album and it just got more and more work from there ;D
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I love the art and I could say I think it's "good" - I enjoy a number of tracks - but for me it was a big disappointment after the legendary run of albums leading in. Real World would improve my rating and One More Time is a Top 20 QR song for me but Promised Land was the first time in my life I used a thing called the Skip button on a Queensryche album and it just got more and more work from there ;D
One More Time is definitely one of my fav Ryche songs too.
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Damaged is a kick ass tune and Real World is awesome. I was glad to see when it was included on those rereleases in 2003. That along with a live version of Damaged made it a must buy and an improvement over the original.
The title track for Promised Land is one of my personal favorites; awesome atmosphere on that one and I think it could have been a bit longer, make it even more epic!
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I always thought Real Word was an extension of the Empire sound, rather than a lead-in to the Promised Land sound, but that could be my experience talking since I was largely unfamiliar with their 80's material until right around when Promised Land was released.
As for the song Promised Land, that is my favorite QR song by a pretty wide distance now. It's a perfect song.
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I always thought Real Word was an extension of the Empire sound, rather than a lead-in to the Promised Land sound
This. Empire's producer Peter Collins produced Real World too, so I always lumped the song in with the Empire album as well. Even though Real World was recorded during the Promised Land sessions, it always felt strange to include it on the Promised Land CD.
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I always thought Real Word was an extension of the Empire sound, rather than a lead-in to the Promised Land sound, but that could be my experience talking since I was largely unfamiliar with their 80's material until right around when Promised Land was released.
This. Empire's producer Peter Collins produced Real World too, so I always lumped the song in with the Empire album as well. Even though Real World was recorded during the Promised Land sessions, it always felt strange to include it on the Promised Land CD.
If memory serves, it was written and recorded in early 1993, with Michael Kamen. Collins was QR's producer from 1988-1997 (Mindcrime through HITNF), so anything they were involved in, he produced at the time. And unlike a lot of producers nowadays, Peter was a more hands-off guy. It was about scheduling, making sure the band had what it needed, and 40,000 ft. level stuff. He didn't work with them on their sound. That was, generally speaking, Jimbo Barton on the dials.
I've always taken it that Real World was the start of the Promised Land era, with a song written specifically for the Last Action Hero soundtrack, and not specifically PL. But it was certainly post-Empire, and not surprisingly, a similar vibe to a degree, because it wasn't written and recorded at Big Log. For me, the lyrical content of Real World seems like a nice bridge in what goes on in PL. I always thought it was a great choice to include on the PL tour, because it fit so well...
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Hmmm, I don't recall Real World being played at our show on the PL tour. Setlist.fm shows that it was, but that set list is wrong. For one, I know that Out of Mind was played early in the show. Two, I know that NM 156 was played as a combo with Screaming in Digital. And three, Neue Regal was played (I would bet my life savings on it). Lastly, I don't think that much of Mindcrime was played.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/1995/kiel-center-st-louis-mo-73d122d1.html
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Hmmm, I don't recall Real World being played at our show on the PL tour. Setlist.fm shows that it was, but that set list is wrong. For one, I know that Out of Mind was played early in the show. Two, I know that NM 156 was played as a combo with Screaming in Digital. And three, Neue Regal was played (I would bet my life savings on it). Lastly, I don't think that much of Mindcrime was played.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/1995/kiel-center-st-louis-mo-73d122d1.html
I seen shows for that tour twice, and I remember them playing it. I couldn't tell you where it was in the set, though. Did the band change setlists throughout the tour, possibly?
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Very possible. I am not saying they didn't play Real World when I saw them, just that I don't remember it, and that the set list in that link I posted is inaccurate in numerous spots.
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Here's the setlist which I'm almost 100% positive was played throughout the entire PL tour, aside from the pair of shows they did in 1994 (which I don't believe were part of the proper tour anyway):
9:28 A.M. (intro tape)
I Am I
Damaged
Bridge
Screaming in Digital (excerpt) →
NM 156 (excerpt)
My Global Mind
Neue Regel (excerpt)
I Remember Now
Anarchy-X
Revolution Calling
Operation: Mindcrime
Spreading the Disease
The Mission
I Don't Believe in Love
Waiting for 22
My Empty Room
Real World
Eyes of a Stranger
Empire
Jet City Woman
Promised Land
Disconnected
Lady Jane
Out of Mind
One More Time
~~~encore~~~
Silent Lucidity
Take Hold of the Flame
Someone Else? (album version with guitar)
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IIRC, Silent Lucidity was the last song of the regular set, not part of the encore.
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IIRC, Silent Lucidity was the last song of the regular set, not part of the encore.
You're probably right. Makes more sense to break it up that way. Am listening to the San Jose radio broadcast right now, and it sounds like someone cross-faded between SL and THotF so that the opening notes of the latter are fading in (and this is true for 2 separate boots of the same show), so it's probably as you say.
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Hmmm, I don't recall Real World being played at our show on the PL tour. Setlist.fm shows that it was, but that set list is wrong. For one, I know that Out of Mind was played early in the show. Two, I know that NM 156 was played as a combo with Screaming in Digital. And three, Neue Regal was played (I would bet my life savings on it). Lastly, I don't think that much of Mindcrime was played.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/1995/kiel-center-st-louis-mo-73d122d1.html
They most certainly played it. At every full headlining show.
http://anybodylistening.net/tourarchive.html
Scroll down to the PL dates and click through. I've kept all of that information as up-to-date as possible since the late-1990s. Setlist.fm is a great resource, but I found it to be very inaccurate on old tour dates.
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IIRC, Silent Lucidity was the last song of the regular set, not part of the encore.
Correct. Another reason to trust the sites that are long-standing and serious about archiving band histories. We generally have the most accurate info. For example, Deep Purple, Floyd, Zeppelin, there are a bunch of sites similar to AnybodyListening.net out there for those respective bands. Official sites are often not as detailed. :(
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IIRC, Silent Lucidity was the last song of the regular set, not part of the encore.
You're probably right. Makes more sense to break it up that way. Am listening to the San Jose radio broadcast right now, and it sounds like someone cross-faded between SL and THotF so that the opening notes of the latter are fading in (and this is true for 2 separate boots of the same show), so it's probably as you say.
That is my recollection for where it was broken up as well. I was at that San Jose show. For the longest time, that was my "best concert ever." So epic.
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Hmmm, I don't recall Real World being played at our show on the PL tour. Setlist.fm shows that it was, but that set list is wrong. For one, I know that Out of Mind was played early in the show. Two, I know that NM 156 was played as a combo with Screaming in Digital. And three, Neue Regal was played (I would bet my life savings on it). Lastly, I don't think that much of Mindcrime was played.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/1995/kiel-center-st-louis-mo-73d122d1.html
It was paired with the rearranged My Empty Room and there is an official release of the combo on one of the CD singles from the Promised Land era (I want to say the I Am I single). It fit perfectly in the O:M portion of the show and it kinda made me wonder if the song was kicking around from the O:M days as an unfinished idea when they were working on that album...
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The PL tour chatter prompted me to find and listen to a show from that tour. Then this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKYgyqGCXwg) came up next in my playlist. :eek :metal Man, this is such a great reminder of not only how fantastic Tate was at his peak, but how great the band as a whole were.
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The PL tour chatter prompted me to find and listen to a show from that tour. Then this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKYgyqGCXwg) came up next in my playlist. :eek :metal Man, this is such a great reminder of not only how fantastic Tate was at his peak, but how great the band as a whole were.
I saw that show in mid-December 1991. I was geeked that they opened with Resistance (one of my favorites on Empire). Roads to Madness was an unexpected highlight. I was particularly impressed by DeGarmo's BG vox. Gotta confess I don't remember the treadmill! Also, Tate was off when he said the tour began one year ago to the day.
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Yeah, I saw that tour in '91 as well. It was a great time to see them. Suicidal was opening on the leg I saw.
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I remember going to the Brendan Byrne show for Building Empires. My friend I went with wasn't too thrilled about the Mindcrime portion of the show, having never heard it. But, I was thrilled beyond belief. The only rare song we got at that show was Last Time In Paris. Awesome show. That was my first time seeing them. I was supposed to see them open for Def Leppard on the Hysteria tour. But, we got there late because my buddy's soccer game went long. I was not happy.
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Yeah, I saw that tour in '91 as well. It was a great time to see them. Suicidal was opening on the leg I saw.
Same here. Suicidal was nuts.
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Hmmm, I don't recall Real World being played at our show on the PL tour. Setlist.fm shows that it was, but that set list is wrong. For one, I know that Out of Mind was played early in the show. Two, I know that NM 156 was played as a combo with Screaming in Digital. And three, Neue Regal was played (I would bet my life savings on it). Lastly, I don't think that much of Mindcrime was played.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/1995/kiel-center-st-louis-mo-73d122d1.html
They most certainly played it. At every full headlining show.
http://anybodylistening.net/tourarchive.html
Scroll down to the PL dates and click through. I've kept all of that information as up-to-date as possible since the late-1990s. Setlist.fm is a great resource, but I found it to be very inaccurate on old tour dates.
Noted. :tup :tup
IIRC, Silent Lucidity was the last song of the regular set, not part of the encore.
You're probably right. Makes more sense to break it up that way. Am listening to the San Jose radio broadcast right now, and it sounds like someone cross-faded between SL and THotF so that the opening notes of the latter are fading in (and this is true for 2 separate boots of the same show), so it's probably as you say.
That is my recollection for where it was broken up as well. I was at that San Jose show. For the longest time, that was my "best concert ever." So epic.
I don't think seeing them on the PL tour is top 5 for me anymore, but it's still pretty darn close. It might be 6th actually behind Rush in 2002, Radiohead in 2008, Pink Floyd in 1994, night 1 of Morsefest in 2017 and Dream Theater in 2000 (the M:2000 show at the House of Blues in Orlando). This is of course limiting it to one per band, otherwise Rush would dominate. :lol :lol
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I seen suicidal with them on Building Empires at the show in Columbus, Ohio. Suicidal was the first band that I ever walked out on in the middle of their set to go take a piss break. They're just not my thing, and I always thought that they were an odd pairing with QR.
Type O Negative was the opener both times I seen the PL tour. They were another odd pairing in my opinion, but maybe not quite as far off as Suicidal.
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Yeah, I saw that tour in '91 as well. It was a great time to see them. Suicidal was opening on the leg I saw.
Hmmm...I do not recall an opening act. They played four nights at Long Beach Arena (Dec. 12-15, 1991). I went to the show on Saturday the 14th. According to setlist.fm, someone called Warrior Soul opened on the 13th and 15th. No opener is listed on the 12th or 14th, but I have to assume it was the same, so I'm guessing my friends and I blew off the opener (and I can't recall ever having heard of Warrior Soul).
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Lynch Mob, Warrior Soul and Suicidal Tendencies were the three main opening acts on the Building Empires tour.
As they hit the Northwest, right after Christmas 1991, local Seattle act Sweet Sister Sam opened, which featured Randy "Random Damage" Gane on keyboards (a buddy of Tate, who was on the "Empire" answering machine, and also was a touring keyboardist for the band on the Rage tour, behind the curtain), and Kendall Bechtel of Fifth Angel.
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Yeah, I saw that tour in '91 as well. It was a great time to see them. Suicidal was opening on the leg I saw.
Hmmm...I do not recall an opening act. They played four nights at Long Beach Arena (Dec. 12-15, 1991). I went to the show on Saturday the 14th. According to setlist.fm, someone called Warrior Soul opened on the 13th and 15th. No opener is listed on the 12th or 14th, but I have to assume it was the same, so I'm guessing my friends and I blew off the opener (and I can't recall ever having heard of Warrior Soul).
Warrior Soul had a cult following in the early 90s that remains to this day. (MP is a big fan IIRC). They were part of that early wave of “ugly dirty street” bands that were the initial backlash against hair metal. Their first album “Last Decade Dead Century” is considered a classic and “Losers” and “We Cry Out” were getting some nominal attention on Headbangers Ball.
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Randy "Random Damage" Gane on keyboards (a buddy of Tate, who was on the "Empire" answering machine, and also was a touring keyboardist for the band on the Rage tour, behind the curtain.)
Does this mean he was playing keyboards live, but literally hidden behind a curtain? That seems super disrespectful to a musician, IMO.
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Randy "Random Damage" Gane on keyboards (a buddy of Tate, who was on the "Empire" answering machine, and also was a touring keyboardist for the band on the Rage tour, behind the curtain.)
Does this mean he was playing keyboards live, but literally hidden behind a curtain? That seems super disrespectful to a musician, IMO.
Derek Sherinian did that for KISS.
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Randy "Random Damage" Gane on keyboards (a buddy of Tate, who was on the "Empire" answering machine, and also was a touring keyboardist for the band on the Rage tour, behind the curtain.)
Does this mean he was playing keyboards live, but literally hidden behind a curtain? That seems super disrespectful to a musician, IMO.
Derek Sherinian did that for KISS.
Adam Wakeman did that for Sabbath.
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Randy "Random Damage" Gane on keyboards (a buddy of Tate, who was on the "Empire" answering machine, and also was a touring keyboardist for the band on the Rage tour, behind the curtain.)
Does this mean he was playing keyboards live, but literally hidden behind a curtain? That seems super disrespectful to a musician, IMO.
As others have illustrated above, plenty of keyboardists have done it. Frankly, it was just the way things were done back in the 80s. It's possible that it was just off-stage (been a while since I looked at the Rage bootlegs). But either way, he wasn't featured on stage like the five members of the band. And Queensryche always introduced him. Something along the lines of "and helping us out on the keys, 'Random Damage!'"
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At least they gave him some recognition. It just seems really strange to me. But then, I think all bands with extensive keyboard sections should have a keyboardist on stage, rather than have the keys on a backing track or something like that (or hidden behind a curtain.)
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We may have had this discussion years ago, but I don't recall. What did everyone think of "Justified?" The song Chris came back to finish with Queensryche for their Best of compilation back in 2007?
I wrote up a blog on the tune the other day - www.anybodylistening.net/justified.html - that gives the backstory behind the song, why and how I've always believed it was for Tribe, and some general thoughts on it.
Overall, I never felt it was a top-20 Queensryche song or anything like that, but the elements of it (particularly the bridge), to me, are completely what Queensryche was all about in their original lineup. And as I said in the blog, a good swan song for the original band if it indeed ends up being that.
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I just listened to the song now for the first time in years. It’s a cool tune, but I’ve never been a big fan of the chugging guitar riff and that’s the kind of vibe I get from this one. I remember thinking it was a good song and would have fit in quite nicely with the Tribe album.
But I also remember hearing Justified and thinking the same thing after the previous few albums, I just want these guys to let loose a bit more lol.
It was also around this time that I bought American Soldier, that Best of and Take Cover. I knew Geoffs vocals were struggling for awhile but it was at this point that it was even more obvious to me.
Going back to that best of. I remember thinking the first CD was just too similar to thier greatest hits from 2000. But those Myth songs on the second CD were :metal :metal. They should have included more unreleased songs from Rage for Order too!
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Call me weird, but I prefer the earlier recording of The Prophecy (which I *think* was recorded during The Warning sessions??? Samsara can probably correct me on that) which was officially released only on The Decline of Western Civilization Part 2: The Metal Years Soundtrack.
Maybe it’s just because I heard that version first, and had grown very accustomed to its raw sound. When I heard the recording from the Rage sessions, it was much more polished...it just threw me off. I still like the polished version, I just prefer the earlier recording.
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I thought The Prophecy was the Rage sessions.
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I thought The Prophecy was the Rage sessions.
That's what I was saying. The version more commonly heard *is* from the Rage sessions.
EDIT - the song itself was written as far back as the EP I think. It was performed on The Warning Tour and an earlier version appeared on the Decline Soundtrack
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JD, Tim,
Yeah, Prophecy has been around forever. . I mean, they were playing that song since the EP tour. - http://anybodylistening.net/9-20-83.html - and that's just the first confirmed setlist. I am sure it was in the set for all the dates before that. The Warning sessions were over budget, so if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say its a demo recording of theirs from The Warning era that they submitted for that soundtrack. Or they could have cut a quick live version of it and just marked it as demo during the RFO pre-production stage. The film came out in what...88? So it could have been either of those things, but because its so raw, I'd say the particular "early" version was a band home demo cut quickly.
Wish I could give you a concrete answer, but to be honest, I never really paid much attention to that particular version of the song. I just always listened to the version they cut during the Rage sessions that was put on the reissue of the EP in 1988, and to the early bootlegs. I never really bothered with the Decline of Western Civ version (I have it, just don't listen to it).
I just listened to the song now for the first time in years. It’s a cool tune, but I’ve never been a big fan of the chugging guitar riff and that’s the kind of vibe I get from this one. I remember thinking it was a good song and would have fit in quite nicely with the Tribe album.
But I also remember hearing Justified and thinking the same thing after the previous few albums, I just want these guys to let loose a bit more lol.
It was also around this time that I bought American Soldier, that Best of and Take Cover. I knew Geoffs vocals were struggling for awhile but it was at this point that it was even more obvious to me.
Going back to that best of. I remember thinking the first CD was just too similar to thier greatest hits from 2000. But those Myth songs on the second CD were :metal :metal. They should have included more unreleased songs from Rage for Order too!
re: Justified -- I hear ya. And it's not that I'm saying Justified is this top track of all time thing. It's a decent song, that stylistically fit with what they were doing in 2002-2003. I LIKE it. But it wouldn't make a top songs compilation mix or something. That said, however, I dug the chugging riff. As I said, my favorite section was the bridge. And there's this cool little "Psycho" (the movie) guitar harmonic in the...I think it's second verse, that I just absolute love. Gives it this creepy stalker vibe if you listen to the lyrics. I forgot to mention that in the blog.
re: The Best of set -- it was OK. I really wished they had NOT included All the Promises and Til There Was You. On the DIGITAL version of the 2 disc set, they swapped those songs out completely for...I want to say another Empire tune, and the song You. I prefer that version a LOT better.
I agree though -- I was hoping they would have released the Rage Demos. I have them, but having them cleaned up and sounding good would have been really cool. From the Darkside, The Dream, Rage for Order, all very different. Would have been cool. The MYTH stuff was OK. You can tell Tate's quirkiness from MYTH was toned down in Queensryche (which to be honest, was for the better, IMO).
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I 100% agree about All the Promises and Til There was You should not have been included in a QR best of. Dozens and dozens of better choices and those songs finished that best of on such a low point. I didn’t care for either on their respective releases and definitely didn’t think they deserved to be on a best of. “You” and “Damaged” are 1000000x better
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I 100% agree about All the Promises and Til There was You should not have been included in a QR best of. Dozens and dozens of better choices and those songs finished that best of on such a low point. I didn’t care for either on their respective releases and definitely didn’t think they deserved to be on a best of. “You” and “Damaged” are 1000000x better
It was "Damaged?" Sweet. One of my top-10 QR songs. Yes, agreed completely.
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I 100% agree about All the Promises and Til There was You should not have been included in a QR best of. Dozens and dozens of better choices and those songs finished that best of on such a low point. I didn’t care for either on their respective releases and definitely didn’t think they deserved to be on a best of. “You” and “Damaged” are 1000000x better
It was "Damaged?" Sweet. One of my top-10 QR songs. Yes, agreed completely.
No sorry I was just using those two songs as an example as songs that should have been included instead of All the Promises and Til There Was You. I think You was one of them but not sure of the other
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I looked it up. It was actually Empire, which wasn't on the original version. :omg:
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I looked it up. It was actually Empire, which wasn't on the original version. :omg:
That's what I thought. LOL. But Damaged and Empire sit next to each other on my QR Top-10 list, so that works. :lol
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I looked it up. It was actually Empire, which wasn't on the original version. :omg:
That's what I thought. LOL. But Damaged and Empire sit next to each other on my QR Top-10 list, so that works. :lol
Yeah Damaged and Empire are two of QR's most kick ass tunes :metal
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JD, Tim,
Yeah, Prophecy has been around forever. . I mean, they were playing that song since the EP tour. - http://anybodylistening.net/9-20-83.html - and that's just the first confirmed setlist. I am sure it was in the set for all the dates before that. The Warning sessions were over budget, so if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say its a demo recording of theirs from The Warning era that they submitted for that soundtrack. Or they could have cut a quick live version of it and just marked it as demo during the RFO pre-production stage. The film came out in what...88? So it could have been either of those things, but because its so raw, I'd say the particular "early" version was a band home demo cut quickly.
Wish I could give you a concrete answer, but to be honest, I never really paid much attention to that particular version of the song. I just always listened to the version they cut during the Rage sessions that was put on the reissue of the EP in 1988, and to the early bootlegs. I never really bothered with the Decline of Western Civ version (I have it, just don't listen to it).
Prophecy (not "The Prophecy") is SOOO good. I had the Live in Tokyo VHS, and my friend and I used to watch/listen to it all the time and drink beers when his parents would leave him home by himself. I had no clue about the song's provenance but was thrilled when the studio version was released with the CD version of the EP. I'm listening to this demo version ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgQSBDBoysQ ) now. It's cool (esp. with the very audible bass - even on my work computer speakers), but I doubt it will replace the live version for me.
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I was floating about on YT and ran across this "vocal coach reacts" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIHHrqzXAfs
Not usually a big fan of reaction videos, but this is ALMOST more entertaining than the song itself (doesn't hurt that she's a bit of a hottie with an English accent). She's got a bunch more, so I'm guessing I won't be terribly productive this afternoon.
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I’ve enjoyed the few reaction videos of hers that I’ve watched; Tate, Michael Kiske, Rob Halford, Dio, couple of others I believe. I was only interested in hearing her opinion of classic rock/metal singers but yeah she can be quite alluring lol
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I've see the Keeper Of The Seven Keys one, which is fantastic.
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I've see the Keeper Of The Seven Keys one, which is fantastic.
How awesome would a duet in the 80s with Geoff Tate and Michael Kiske have been?
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But that video she reviewed with a live version of Take Hold is fantastic. Tate is on fire in that one :metal :metal :metal
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I watched one of her videos and found it annoying she stopped it every 5 seconds to give an opinion. Then half the time she just describes what was sung and how it was sung. Yeah, we heard it too, love. Save it til the end.
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But that video she reviewed with a live version of Take Hold is fantastic. Tate is on fire in that one :metal :metal :metal
That whole Live in Tokyo tape (never been released on DVD, apparently) is awesome.
I've see the Keeper Of The Seven Keys one, which is fantastic.
Watching now.
I like that, in her videos, she's hearing the music just slightly before we do, so we get reactions just a split-second before we hear what she's reacting to.
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I've see the Keeper Of The Seven Keys one, which is fantastic.
Watching now.
I like that, in her videos, she's hearing the music just slightly before we do, so we get reactions just a split-second before we hear what she's reacting to.
I believe she actually has an orgasm during the video. :lol
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I've see the Keeper Of The Seven Keys one, which is fantastic.
Watching now.
I like that, in her videos, she's hearing the music just slightly before we do, so we get reactions just a split-second before we hear what she's reacting to.
I believe she actually has an orgasm during the video. :lol
Looking back Tate was such a monster,,,I saw them a few times during the EP to Warning period, and only Halford was in Tates league , or Tate was pushing Halfords league, to that point JPs Unleashed in the East was to me the greatest live vocal performance on Vinyl ( and it still might be ),,, I remember standing there thinking "geezus, the bands good but man Tate is from another world" and Tate commanded the stage also
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I have to go back and find it in my collection, but I have this set of rehearsals from 1983 as the band was preparing for its EP tour. Tate is WAILING. I mean the power and range back then was just unheard of. I am going to have to go find it now, because I remember when I first heard it, I just flipped out how raw and live it was (it sounds like it was a tape recorder just in the rehearsal room, but cleaned up a bit).
edit - I found it. Its totally what I thought it was. Even Tate (I think) says "ready Dave" who I assume is the one recording it.
To this day, I seriously don't remember a male lead singer in rock (other than Freddie) who had that combination of ridiculous high range, power, and depth/character to his voice. Tate was ridiculous back then.
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Tate was ridiculous back then.
He really was.
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As much as I can't stand the guy, it is my opinion that 83-93 Tate was the greatest vocalist in the history of rock/metal.
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I've see the Keeper Of The Seven Keys one, which is fantastic.
Watching now.
I like that, in her videos, she's hearing the music just slightly before we do, so we get reactions just a split-second before we hear what she's reacting to.
I believe she actually has an orgasm during the video. :lol
She is pretty cool in small doses ........... :lol
I remember seeing a more serious (less orgasmic) analysis of Tate from another vocal coach. The basic conclusion was that he was seriously good but the unusual way he combined head/chest voice was going to take a big toll on him over time.
Even though I think Tate is a wanker , I do admire the way he has managed to bring himself back in recent years (both in range and his ear) and seems to be more aware of ways to conserve his voice.
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Maybe he's had to make changes to achieve this, but I can't help but think one is humility.
And I said this as soon as I heard he was doing Avanatasia. I predicted a a comeback of sorts for him. I knew Tobi would get the absolute best out of him, and figured that experience may carry on with him.
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It's good that Tate is inVesting in trying to take care of his voice a bit more. I guess now he's just trying to be the vest man that he can.
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It's good that Tate is inVesting in trying to take care of his voice a bit more. I guess now he's just trying to be the vest man that he can.
Gee, that's very intervesting.
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Intervesting :lol
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Is someone getting the vest...the vest...the vest...the vest of you?
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Shit............thought I had logged into Blabbermouth ;D
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Shit............thought I had logged into Blabbermouth ;D
Haha, I make no apologies.
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Maybe he's had to make changes to achieve this, but I can't help but think one is humility.
And I said this as soon as I heard he was doing Avanatasia. I predicted a a comeback of sorts for him. I knew Tobi would get the absolute best out of him, and figured that experience may carry on with him.
Yeah, I don't follow him personally to the point of being an expert of his persona and his attitude in recent years, but the casual impression is that sometime after the split with Queensryche he had a kind of reality check that humbled him down a bit. Call him mid-life awakening, the smaller size of venues playing, Tobias Sammet giving him a metaphorical shot in the arm, dunno. The general impression that he gives me is of someone happy with what he's doing, enjoying his time and accepting that in some ways he's a "has been" who still gets some following
Then maybe the other day he kicked a fan's puppy and called in the middle of the night the other QR members to make fart noises, dunno. But I have the general and casual feeling that he toned down the douchebaggery A LOT in later years.
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Paging TAC (and others). Wilton would like you to know that PL is QR's most underrated album. :biggrin:
Rockpages.gr: Which you’d say is your most underrated album?
Michael Wilton: Wow! Ahm… I would have to say “Promised Land”. When in came out it has those great expectations because it was coming off “Empire” and we kind of did a 180 on it. As far as we didn’t try to appease the popular stereotype out there. So, there is a lot of great songs on that album and great musical passages and I think a lot of them got pushed and shadowed due to the onslaught of the “Empire” album.
Rockpages.gr: Yeah, but it’s considered to be one of Queensrӱche’s classic albums nowadays.
Michael Wilton: Oh, yeah! We like to think that all our legacy albums hold the test of time.
https://www.rockpages.gr/queensr-che-2/?lang=en
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Hah.
I saw that on Bravewords. I didn't read the interview, but of course I was thinking the exact opposite, that it's their most overrated albums.
I think I could scratch out an EP of the album.
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I watched Live: Evolution this past weekend...... boy was Kelly Gray a bad fit.
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Paging TAC (and others). Wilton would like you to know that PL is QR's most underrated album. :biggrin:
Wilton's opinion aside, based on what I read here, I'd say it's overwhelmingly the most overrated. The Warning seems to be criminally underrated.
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Paging TAC (and others). Wilton would like you to know that PL is QR's most underrated album. :biggrin:
Wilton's opinion aside, based on what I read here, I'd say it's overwhelmingly the most overrated. The Warning seems to be criminally underrated.
Thank you. On both.
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I watched Live: Evolution this past weekend...... boy was Kelly Gray a bad fit.
He was. But that set holds a special place for me as I was at those shows (and managed to get to the post show meet-and-greet on the Mindcrime night). I can also be clearly seen in an audience shot during London, so while it may not have been the band at its peak, I still listen to the CDs with a certain fondness.
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Paging TAC (and others). Wilton would like you to know that PL is QR's most underrated album. :biggrin:
Wilton's opinion aside, based on what I read here, I'd say it's overwhelmingly the most overrated. The Warning seems to be criminally underrated.
Promised Land IS underrated by the time it came out, grunge was all the rage, and those not into the grunge scene wanted old school metal with modern production. So it's not surprising it lost a lot of people, TAC, you included.
But if you understood and craved the Floyd side of the band, the more art rock elements in Queensryche, Promised Land was a home run. I admit, I didn't get it at first. I remember being turned off by the mid-tempo flow of the album the first time I bought it, got home and put it in the CD player. But then a few nights later, I was home, relaxing with the lights off trying to fall asleep, and put on the album. And it hit me hard. I understood the theme (although I couldn't relate to it at the time), and then I heard the majesty in Queensryche's sound, the thump of Ed's bass, the entwined guitars that were a touch simpler, but lush to complement the song. Scott Rockenfield at his height as a drummer, and Tate...whose vocal range wasn't quite what it was, but the desperation and honesty in his performance just made it all connect together.
I really do feel bad for those QR fans who just don't get, or don't like the direction QR took on Promised Land. I get it. But to me, that album was definitively Queensryche, with all elements of their sound present. They just chose to emphasize the non-expected elements, and dialed back what folks thought they knew about the band. It was bold. And while it did them absolutely ZERO favors commercially, it did wonders for those that had an affinity for that side of Queensryche.
I also thought the single choices were really poor, and did NOT help them. I blogged about this a few years back - https://anybodylistening.net/promisedlandsingles.html
Regarding The Warning - I also think that album is underrated in terms of the songs and performances. The problem is, it has a really dated mix that doesn't emphasize the guitars the way it should. The Warning and the EP were records I picked up AFTER Empire. I started with Rage and Mindcrime in the late 80s. I want to say Summer 87, so it was likely Rage. Then I rented "Live in Tokyo" from the local video store. I HATED it. :rollin :rollin :rollin
Then I got Empire, loved that, and finally went back and listened to The Warning and the EP...and liked them. But the production was just too flat. But then the brilliance of The Warning hit me, and I "listen around" the bad mix and think it's probably my second favorite Queensryche record after Mindcrime. :metal I also changed the track order to what the band intended, and to me, the flow of the songs is 1000x improved, and it really helped me connect with the album as a whole.
Re: Live Evolution -- Kelly may not have been the best fit, but like ShadowWalker, I have fond memories of the whole Q2k-Live Evolution era, so I look past it...except on the Jet City Woman solo. I always cringe.
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Brian, I quickly scanned the blog you linked. I have zero recollection of I Am I being the single.
I definitely remember Bridge being released and my thought was that after Silent Lucidity, QR released a softer song, which to me was an issue for two reasons.
1. I just thought it was a lame and sellout move to release another song in the vain of Silent Lucidity, and to promote a song that really didn't exemplify what the band was all about. It was like they tried to release Silent Lucidity II, and
2. Bridge is so inferior to Silent Lucidity it's not even funny. I know the lyrics were very personal to Chris, and I totally respect that, but musically, Bridge doesn't lick Silent Lucidity's bootstraps.
And in that moment right there, I was already questioning Promised Land before I had even heard it. Remember, I'm on record as saying when Empire was released, the thing that bugged me the most about shift on Empire wasn't Empire itself, but it was my concerns of what would follow Empire. Bridge basically told me that I might have been onto something.
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Just so it's not all negative, I absolutely love Damaged. To me, it's easily the best song on the album. The one other song that I absolutely stand behind is One More Time. Even though Empire raised some red flags for me, I still consider it a strong and excellent album. One More Time fits with the Empire style, and I like it a lot.
I don't love the title track, but on most days, I do like it a lot. I usually have to be in the mood for it, but I do consider it a "plus" song on the album.
I consider Someone Else the 4th best song on the album, but while it's a raw and vulnerable performance, there's a distinct lack of strength in Tate's vocal, even compared with Empire. Tate's slippage dates back to Promised Land, and in many ways, while his vocals actually lifted Empire higher than it likely deserved, he just couldn't save Promised Land on the strength of his vocals alone.
The above four songs are the only songs that would rate from this album in a countdown of the first five (and EP) albums, and everything else from PL would be at the bottom.
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I feel a ranking coming on.
1. Promised Land
2. Damaged
3. Disconnected
4. Out of Mind
5. I Am I
6. Someone Else?
7. My Global Mind
8. Lady Jane
9. One More Time
10. Bridge
All are amazing.
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I feel a wanking coming on.
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I feel a wanking coming on.
Come to daddy...
fap fap fap fap fap
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
EDIT - right now, I'm drinking a vodka and fresca....watching captain marvel....and seriously thinking about redacting this post. I still might.....later.
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Paging TAC (and others). Wilton would like you to know that PL is QR's most underrated album. :biggrin:
Wilton's opinion aside, based on what I read here, I'd say it's overwhelmingly the most overrated. The Warning seems to be criminally underrated.
To be fair, this forum is a relatively small pool to judge that by and just so happens to be a forum that's filled with people that are quite fond of progressive rock and metal. And really, Promised Land happens to be one of Queensryche's proggiest albums ever, so it's little wonder that it gets showered with love from a lot of members on here. We're basically the direct audience that would be most likely to enjoy that album.
I think if we were to somehow poll the whole majority of Queensryche fans out in the world, Promised Land would probably get far less recognition and praise from most. In fact, I'd say it'd probably be neck-and-neck with The Warning in terms of ranking behind Rage, Mindcrime and Empire (and possibly some of the La Torre era albums).
But yes, The Warning is a stellar album and is criminally underrated! Like Samsara said, The Warning is only held back by its somewhat dated production and incorrect track list. The originally intended order of the album helps it flow much better.
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1. Promised Land
2. Out Of Mind
3. Someone Else
4. Disconnected
5. Real World
6. Lady Jane
7. I Am I
8. Damaged
9. One More Time
10. Bridge
11. My Global Mind
12. 9:28am
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To be fair, this forum is a relatively small pool to judge that by and just so happens to be a forum that's filled with people that are quite fond of progressive rock and metal. And really, Promised Land happens to be one of Queensryche's proggiest albums ever, so it's little wonder that it gets showered with love from a lot of members on here. We're basically the direct audience that would be most likely to enjoy that album.
I think if we were to somehow poll the whole majority of Queensryche fans out in the world, Promised Land would probably get far less recognition and praise from most. In fact, I'd say it'd probably be neck-and-neck with The Warning in terms of ranking behind Rage, Mindcrime and Empire (and possibly some of the La Torre era albums).
But yes, The Warning is a stellar album and is criminally underrated! Like Samsara said, The Warning is only held back by its somewhat dated production and incorrect track list. The originally intended order of the album helps it flow much better.
I can understand Warning and PL lagging behind the "peak" of the Rage-Empire run. One is on the way up the mountain, and one is on the way down.
My reasoning for not liking Promised Land doesn't have anything to do with "it's not metal". My opinion is that the songs just aren't good. It's as if the band stopped trying on half of the record. Samsara has written about the strife in the band, and with everyone not sharing the same commitment, it pulls the total quality of the songs apart.
And I guess I forgot what proggy means. I thought it was short for progressive, as in pushing boundaries.
I find Warning far more progressive than Promised Land. Far more.
Sorry. I don't mean to be a dick.
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I struggled with Promised Land for a long time, and whilst its still not a favourite, its better than what came after. I hated the intro and skipped that all the time. I don't mind I Am I now but didn't like it at all back then.
Damaged is proper Queensryche. I didn't mind Bridge and Out of Mind at all but placing them together was a bit strange. Promised Land didn't do anything for me back then but I love it now. I've said before that I hate Disconnected. The rest is better but not up to the albums before it.
My rankings would go:
Worthy of the Queensryche name
Damaged
One More Time
Pretty good
Bridge, Out Of Mind, Real World, Someone Else?
Decent
My Global Mind, Promised Land, I Am I
OK
Lady Jane
Don't exist in my world
Disconnected, 9.28am
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Tim -- "proggy" has taken on various different meanings over the years. In Queensryche's case, it's about shifting styles and moods. That's very different than the sort of "proggy" sound delivered by DT or Symphony X.
Regarding "Bridge" - I find the tune to be among the best on the record. The melancholy nature of the song and the introspective vibe fits the record and its mood perfectly. But again, that's all person taste, so if you don't dig it, I get it, but I respectfully disagree. :)
Thanks for reading the blog. And "I Am I" was the lead single off the record. lol.
As for the song rankings on the record, other than the title track (which is one of the best things they've ever done, and there's nothing that moody and dark in their catalog), we're not that far apart:
1. Damaged
2. Promised Land
3. Bridge
4. Someone Else?
5. One More Time
6. My Global Mind (album version -- they were never able to get the vocal layering right in the chorus live)
7. 9:28 a.m./I Am I
8. Out of Mind (this low, despite what I regard as one of DeGarmo's finest guitar solos)
9. Lady Jane
10. Dis-con-nec-ted (it fits the flow of the record, and its interesting to listen to in that context, but it's never been a good standalone track to me)
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I like the second half of the album better than the first one, so my ranking is a reflection of that:
1. Damaged (probably my favorite Queensryche song)
2. Lady Jane
3. Disconnected
4. One more time
5. Promised land
6. My global mind
7. Someone else
8. Out of mind
9. Bridge
10. I am I
It's still great as a whole, though.
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Good morning TAC.
Did my post trigger your alarm clock? :lol
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Good morning TAC.
Did my post trigger your alarm clock? :lol
Been up since 5 a.m. Pacific my man!
1. Damaged (probably my favorite Queensryche song)
It's still great as a whole, though.
Amen to both of those statements. "Damaged" is in my top-5.
Top-5 Original Lineup Queensryche songs:
1. Anybody Listening?
2. NM 156
3. Screaming in Digital
4. Roads to Madness
5. Damaged
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I agree about Tate in his prime. For me, the top two would be
Perry and Tate. Somebody Else has got to be among my favorite
recorded vocal performances ever.
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Good morning TAC.
Did my post trigger your alarm clock? :lol
Been up since 5 a.m. Pacific my man!
1. Damaged (probably my favorite Queensryche song)
It's still great as a whole, though.
Amen to both of those statements. "Damaged" is in my top-5.
Top-5 Original Lineup Queensryche songs:
1. Anybody Listening?
2. NM 156
3. Screaming in Digital
4. Roads to Madness
5. Damaged
My top 5 would be similar (very hard to narrow down though). I would have Suite Sister Mary at 1 and I'd drop Damaged out of that list.
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Regarding The Warning - I also think that album is underrated in terms of the songs and performances. The problem is, it has a really dated mix that doesn't emphasize the guitars the way it should. The Warning and the EP were records I picked up AFTER Empire. I started with Rage and Mindcrime in the late 80s. I want to say Summer 87, so it was likely Rage. Then I rented "Live in Tokyo" from the local video store. I HATED it. :rollin :rollin :rollin
Then I got Empire, loved that, and finally went back and listened to The Warning and the EP...and liked them. But the production was just too flat. But then the brilliance of The Warning hit me, and I "listen around" the bad mix and think it's probably my second favorite Queensryche record after Mindcrime. :metal I also changed the track order to what the band intended, and to me, the flow of the songs is 1000x improved, and it really helped me connect with the album as a whole.
Maybe I'm just unsophisticated, but I don't think I've ever heard an album (other than Vapor Trails by Rush) where the production impeded my enjoyment. Of course, my intro to QR came somewhere around the time that The Warning came out. I saw the QOTR video on MTV (at that time, the cheese of that video was actually cool) and was beyond blown away by Tate. Take Hold got played on the radio, and I bought The Warning and the Live in Tokyo video and fell in love. My friends and I used to watch that video, which I still have and watch on occasion. I was initially disappointed by Rage (although I've warmed up to it over the years. O:M is utterly brilliant. Sounds like TAC and I have virtually the same thoughts about Empire (although I can't say I actually gave thought to "what will come next"). It was too polished and sounded like a blatant attempt to be commercial. In retrospect, it's a half-and-half album, with the odd numbered songs being killer and the even numbered songs being "meh" to average. Promised Land does nothing for me (other than make me want to do damage to the disc and my music players), but I do really like both I Am I and Damaged. The title track is just awful.
My reasoning for not liking Promised Land doesn't have anything to do with "it's not metal". My opinion is that the songs just aren't good. It's as if the band stopped trying on half of the record. . . .
And I guess I forgot what proggy means. I thought it was short for progressive, as in pushing boundaries.
I find Warning far more progressive than Promised Land. Far more.
Sorry. I don't mean to be a dick.
If that's dickish, then count me in because that's pretty much how I feel (although I'd add that both Rage and O:M are also far more "proggy" than PL).
Top-5 Original Lineup Queensryche songs:
1. Anybody Listening?
2. NM 156
3. Screaming in Digital
4. Roads to Madness
5. Damaged
Wow...I don't know if I could do this, but candidates would be:
QOTR
Prophecy
Warning
Deliverance
NM156
Roads to Madness
Neue Regel
London
I Will Remember
Speak
The Mission
Suit Sister Mary
Eyes of a Stranger
Resistance
Anybody Listening?
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re: album mix/master/production that hampers enjoyment
>>>It's happened to me on a few occasions. For the record, I've moved on from it with The Warning. Once I re-ordered the track list, the album obviously hit me a lot harder. It flowed better and I connected with it. But when I was 12 and first heard that album, after listening to how well they were captured on Rage and Mindcrime, it just didn't sound "right" to me. But as I said somewhere above, I consider The Warning to be Queensryche's second best album behind Mindcrime.
re: Promised Land
>>>I love the huge disparity of opinion on the album. Will say this though -- regarding the mix/master/production, I consider Promised Land to be the band's finest sounding album. They had the budget and the time, and really nailed it. Empire got a lot of accolades for its mix and overall sonics, and it deserves it. But I love how Promised Land found a way to capture that same essence (thank you Jimbo Barton) and find a way to carve out a deeper bass sound. Everything is just deep and haunting on that record.
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Promised Land was different (and progressive afaic) so understandably divisive. Surely respectable, though.
Everything that came after was so far below par that I'm still cross about it. They've been dead to me for decades now.
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To me....
Promised Land was true snapshot of where the band was in headspace , fame and family, the message of achieving and what for? The tour was unrivaled ..The songs are a vehicle of that concept and to me its the album only entirely
I liked Hear in the Now more today than Promised Land
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I ain't gonna lie. The Promised Land tour was one of the best concerts I ever went to. I found Out Of Mind absolutely haunting live.
What was weird was that I didn't like the album, nor did I think Queensryche was a particularly strong live band.
But that show was stupendous.
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I can understand Warning and PL lagging behind the "peak" of the Rage-Empire run. One is on the way up the mountain, and one is on the way down.
My reasoning for not liking Promised Land doesn't have anything to do with "it's not metal". My opinion is that the songs just aren't good. It's as if the band stopped trying on half of the record. Samsara has written about the strife in the band, and with everyone not sharing the same commitment, it pulls the total quality of the songs apart.
And I guess I forgot what proggy means. I thought it was short for progressive, as in pushing boundaries.
I find Warning far more progressive than Promised Land. Far more.
Sorry. I don't mean to be a dick.
You're not being a dick, it's good. And I totally respect your opinion about not liking the songs. Music's subjective, it happens.
My point wasn't directed at you though, nor was I trying to claim that most PL haters didn't like it for not being heavy enough. My argument was that it didn't register for a lot of audiences- especially post-Empire general audiences, because it was more heady and atmospheric. More progressive in the old school Pink Floyd vein, rather than the sort of progressive metal/rock we see in Rage for Order or Operation: Mindcrime.
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I ain't gonna lie. The Promised Land tour was one of the best concerts I ever went to. I found Out Of Mind absolutely haunting live.
What was weird was that I didn't like the album, nor did I think Queensryche was a particularly strong live band.
But that show was stupendous.
Yup Bro ,,,, yup...
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I can understand Warning and PL lagging behind the "peak" of the Rage-Empire run. One is on the way up the mountain, and one is on the way down.
My reasoning for not liking Promised Land doesn't have anything to do with "it's not metal". My opinion is that the songs just aren't good. It's as if the band stopped trying on half of the record. Samsara has written about the strife in the band, and with everyone not sharing the same commitment, it pulls the total quality of the songs apart.
And I guess I forgot what proggy means. I thought it was short for progressive, as in pushing boundaries.
I find Warning far more progressive than Promised Land. Far more.
Sorry. I don't mean to be a dick.
You're not being a dick, it's good. And I totally respect your opinion about not liking the songs. Music's subjective, it happens.
My point wasn't directed at you though, nor was I trying to claim that most PL haters didn't like it for not being heavy enough. My argument was that it didn't register for a lot of audiences- especially post-Empire general audiences, because it was more heady and atmospheric. More progressive in the old school Pink Floyd vein, rather than the sort of progressive metal/rock we see in Rage for Order or Operation: Mindcrime.
Mr. G, I didn't think you were talking to me with the heavy comment.
(and I'm not directing this at you) I think frankly that's the argument the pro PL guys use when they can't figure out why everyone doesn't like it. Blame it on the lack of metal heads.
That tour was very well attended as far as I could tell. Maybe Samsara could chime in on that. I'm pretty sure my show was.
I think Samsara has documented that the band's implosion was underway on Promised Land, and to me, after hearing the album, that makes total sense, and justifies my dissatisfaction with it. I had paid extremely close attention to Queensryche from the release of the EP, and sometimes a band's strife does manifest itself in the music. Many people point to Hear In The Now Frontier for this, but I hear it in PL.
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Just wanted to chime in to say that I love Promised Land. I'm jealous of those who saw that tour. I've heard it described by a lot of different people and it sounds like it was awesome.
Also I think I Am I is a great song. :)
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I only saw classic era QR one time, and one time only.
It was the OMC tour, and they had just come home for New Year's Eve after an long stint touring the country opening for Metallica. They were coming home, they were headlining, Metal Church was opening, and it was THE MINDCRIME TOUR. It should have been the greatest show ever. By the time they got to Spreading the Disease, everyone was convinced that they were going to play OMC in its entirety. You have no idea how pissed I was when the set went straight from The Mission, into The Needle Lies. To this day, it is the biggest disappointment of my concert going life. And then I missed the Empire Tour, and then I missed the Promised Land Tour, and now I am completely jealous of each and every one of you.
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That tour was very well attended as far as I could tell. Maybe Samsara could chime in on that. I'm pretty sure my show was.
Yeah, the sheds were pretty full man. Jones Beach was.
I think Samsara has documented that the band's implosion was underway on Promised Land, and to me, after hearing the album, that makes total sense, and justifies my dissatisfaction with it. I had paid extremely close attention to Queensryche from the release of the EP, and sometimes a band's strife does manifest itself in the music. Many people point to Hear In The Now Frontier for this, but I hear it in PL.
That is true, some of the internal stuff came to a head after Empire (divorces and stuff which led to a lot of the introspective material). When I found out about that retrospectively years after PL, I just thought it was angst bringing out great songs (as a fan of the record). Bad experiences usually turn into great songs, and with PL, I certainly thought that.
What I think gets overlooked sometimes with PL and with HITNF is that one of the band's major riff writers wasn't nearly as prolific during these cycles. Wilton was huge for QR from the EP-Empire. And then after Empire, he took a backseat for various reasons. Then again, most folks love "Damaged" off PL, and Wilton didn't write that song -- Chris did, musically. So the "metal" aspect of QR was still there. I just think the band was exploring new ways of writing, and didn't want to get pigeon-holed as one thing. It was very smart of them until they took a turn that wasn't favored by the mainstream (PL). The fickle nature of folks (hell, we're all guilty of it).
Do I think the "strife" as TAC put it steered the direction of the PL record -- yes. Internal band strife, but personal issues stemming from the band's success with Empire. Absolutely. Folks also forget that "Real World" and "Dirty Lil Secret" were both written in 1993, at the "start" of the work that would become Promised Land. Both those songs are really solid tracks, with the latter not being dark, but instead some cheeky social commentary. The band elected to pursue a different direction. But I also think the natural evolution of the band has been trending more and more toward atmosphere and simplicity at the time anyway. The success of "Silent Lucidity" and that approach they used for the Empire record of making sure the songs were complete, standalone single-ready tunes had a lot to do with that. And frankly, you could have released all 11 songs from Empire as singles.
Hear in the Now Frontier was much more accessible than PL, and frankly, I think it would have been more successful had it come after Empire because it was more radio friendly. The band seemed to take the Empire approach, but with more alternative stylings, drawing from the success bands from Seattle in the 90s had. Sign of the Times and You were really big at radio...and then EMI shut its doors, and there went the push. And QR went down the drain with it.
I don't hear "strife" in HITNF at all, honestly. I hear a band's major songwriter trying his best to get the band's profile up by trying to tap into a more mainstream element that he, was into at the time (DeGarmo was/is a big fan of Alice in Chains and Soundgarden, and HITNF sounds a ton like SG's Down on the Upside). Frankly, HITNF has absolutely grown on me BIG time over the years. So much ear candy on there guitar-wise - just not in the metal sense. But if you just listen to the guitars, I'd argue that it was QR's best guitar album since Operation: Mindcrime. :)
I wrote a retrospective review on it a few years back that really sums up my thoughts on it - https://anybodylistening.net/hitnf-20.html
I didn't really hear the connection to SG's Down on the Upside until about a year after I wrote that. But if you listen to both records, you'll absolutely hear it. And to me, that signaled that DeGarmo was doing his best to bring his band back to relevancy. And as I said earlier it would have worked, IMO, had EMI not folded right after the album was released (Sign of the Times had been out for six weeks, and then You dropped, and then a couple weeks after You was on radio, EMI closed up shop). It has the right material for the right time. That record was FULL of songs with single potential. Sign of the Times, You, Reach, The Voice Inside, and Some People Fly with that great melody in the chorus could all have done it for them.
Folks might not have liked that evolution, songwriting-wise, but it WAS distinctly Queensryche. The distinction of Chris guitar, the melody choices, etc., screamed QR. But did it in a much more alternative way. Was it my favorite album? Of course not. But I absolutely see what Chris was going for, and he would have gotten them there if EMI hadn't gone belly-up.
I don't think HITNF is as strong an album as PL, Empire, or anything before it. I'm not saying THAT. But I'm saying it likely would have been hailed as a return to form of sorts (at least in the eyes of the mainstream) had the financial support been behind it. It had the single-ready material for it, a sound that was popular for the time, a great combination of striking artwork and imagery with extremely good (You and Anytime/Anywhere aside) lyrical content to hook into. EMI's nosedive is what killed HITNF...not the songs or direction.
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I only saw classic era QR one time, and one time only.
It was the OMC tour, and they had just come home for New Year's Eve after an long stint touring the country opening for Metallica. They were coming home, they were headlining, Metal Church was opening, and it was THE MINDCRIME TOUR. It should have been the greatest show ever. By the time they got to Spreading the Disease, everyone was convinced that they were going to play OMC in its entirety. You have no idea how pissed I was when the set went straight from The Mission, into The Needle Lies. To this day, it is the biggest disappointment of my concert going life. And then I missed the Empire Tour, and then I missed the Promised Land Tour, and now I am completely jealous of each and every one of you.
JD - you saw them at a great time -- a headline show during the Mindcrime tour. That show is legendary for the M-80 or whatever that went off during "No Sanctuary" and was broadcast live nationally on ZRock. To be honest, while the Empire show was their commercial peak, and PL tour might have been their artistic peak, those Mindcrime headline shows were their METAL peak. All those songs from The Warning, Rage, and Mindcrime. So. Damn. Cool. Just look at the setlist - https://anybodylistening.net/12-31-88.html
So to be honest, I'm extremely jealous of you, those who saw the one-off headline shows and small headline tours (Japan, California, etc.) in 1989.
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I am jealous of you all - they didn't even get out here until the OM1 + OM2 shows.
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This is pretty fun to listen to.
Video 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2TGm0eWPSU / Glenn Fricker explains remixing the track, Everything, from the Frequency Unknown record and the fact that he was never paid for his work.
Video 2 - https://www.facebook.com/Richard.Tater/videos/2757336720988710/ / Craig Locicero (Forbidden)'s 25 minute live video explaining his involvement in the Frequency Unknown record and what went into rewriting and recording the songs, as a response to Glenn's video.
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Samsara...
I remember that it was announced it was being broadcast for Zrock...but never found a boot. Is there one floating around somewhere??
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Samsara...
I remember that it was announced it was being broadcast for Zrock...but never found a boot. Is there one floating around somewhere??
Yep! 99 percent sure its on YouTube. That was the show where they didn't dial in Queen of the Reich right at first. The mix was all off.
If you can't find it on YouTube, let me know and I'll get a copy of the show to you.
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Samsara...
I remember that it was announced it was being broadcast for Zrock...but never found a boot. Is there one floating around somewhere??
I put it on YouTube :)
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fN_KAWmXyFIwvQ4mo_-w9g
There is also a pretty decent audience recording from the show too. I'll have to get that up some day as well.
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I only saw classic era QR one time, and one time only.
It was the OMC tour, and they had just come home for New Year's Eve after an long stint touring the country opening for Metallica. They were coming home, they were headlining, Metal Church was opening, and it was THE MINDCRIME TOUR. It should have been the greatest show ever. By the time they got to Spreading the Disease, everyone was convinced that they were going to play OMC in its entirety. You have no idea how pissed I was when the set went straight from The Mission, into The Needle Lies. To this day, it is the biggest disappointment of my concert going life. And then I missed the Empire Tour, and then I missed the Promised Land Tour, and now I am completely jealous of each and every one of you.
JD - you saw them at a great time -- a headline show during the Mindcrime tour. That show is legendary for the M-80 or whatever that went off during "No Sanctuary" and was broadcast live nationally on ZRock. To be honest, while the Empire show was their commercial peak, and PL tour might have been their artistic peak, those Mindcrime headline shows were their METAL peak. All those songs from The Warning, Rage, and Mindcrime. So. Damn. Cool. Just look at the setlist - https://anybodylistening.net/12-31-88.html
So to be honest, I'm extremely jealous of you, those who saw the one-off headline shows and small headline tours (Japan, California, etc.) in 1989.
You mentioned that explosion during No Sanctuary. I can say that that recording didn't do it justice. That explosion was *HUGE*. If it was an M-80, then the acoustics of the arena made it sound 10 times larger. I'm not a big fireworks guy, but several people near me were in shock and swearing up and down "That was no M-80...that was a quarter stick." But again, I don't even know much about these things. I just know what people around me were saying. I will say I've heard an M-80 go off, and it didn't sound like that.
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On the subject of HITNF, it was a huge disappointment. PL took a while to open itself up to me but HITNF was just so flat and lifeless. I’m listening to it now and it’s just there. But still better than anything that came after it. This isn’t QR to me. Chris should have done it as a solo album. Is Wilton even on here? It all just sounds like Chris and his slide.
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I liked what they tried to do with HITNF, but the songs just aren't there. It is my favorite band pic on the sleeve though.
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I like HITNF... again the tour sold it ,,, voice inside was a great opener, what ruined it for me was I was aware the band was ending and that made me feel somber during the shows to some extent and I guess that dry feeling on the mix fit to me. I feel the disc holds up real well and doesnt feel dated to me. to me Chris took some real chances and Geoff brought the emotion,,, to me its very much a classic and finishes what Chris knew was ending for him very beautifully ,,
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I like more songs on HITNF than I do on PL.
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There are a few gems. Some People Fly is probably my favorite of the entire disc. Certainly has more emotion than anything else on that disc. But I seem to remember also liking You, Reach, and sp00l. Most of the rest sounded like Q2Krap’s B-sides.
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My faves off of HITNF are Anytime Anywhere and Hit The Black.
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“You” is easily my favorite from HITNF. The less is more mentality is with this album I think. Knock it down to 10 songs total and it’s much better IMO
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“You” is easily my favorite from HITNF. The less is more mentality is with this album I think. Knock it down to 10 songs total and it’s much better IMO
Yeah, and knock Promised Land down to 4 songs. ;D
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Ouch 😂
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My faves off of HITNF are Anytime Anywhere and Hit The Black.
What a coincidence. Those are my two least favourites! :lol
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My top tracks from HITNF:
spOOL
Reach
The Voice Inside
Hit the Black
You
Some People Fly
Sign of the Times
>>>To be honest though, other than Anytime/Anywhere, Miles Away, and All Want, I dig the rest of the record. I think "Hero" has one of the coolest guitar solos Chris has ever done (the outro). Saved is also a really cool track, the chorus vocal is a bit obnoxious though. Take that out, and that song would be up there with the top group I listed.
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On the subject of HITNF, it was a huge disappointment. PL took a while to open itself up to me but HITNF was just so flat and lifeless. I’m listening to it now and it’s just there. But still better than anything that came after it. This isn’t QR to me. Chris should have done it as a solo album. Is Wilton even on here? It all just sounds like Chris and his slide.
Yeah, I've never been able to click with HITNF. I'm not opposed to the idea of QR doing a grunge album... but they sound incredibly uninspired on HITNF. "Lifeless" is exactly the adjective I come to for the album whenever I try to give it another go. It just sounds and feels dead. There's no life, no energy or soul. It's just a band in the motions with a key songwriter who clearly already feels like he's on his way out.
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#1. spOOL
#2. Sign Of The Times
#3. All I Want
#4. You
#5. Some People Fly
(big dropoff here)
#6. Chasing Blue Sky*
#7. Miles Away
#8. Hero
#9. Reach
10. Cuckoo's Nest
11. The Voice Inside
(another big dropoff)
12. Saved
13. Get A Life
14. Anytime Anywhere
15. Hit The Black (:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:)
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You, Get a life and Cuckoo's nest are my favorites on the album. It would have been a fine release if it had been trimmed down a bit and had better production.
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You, Get a life and Cuckoo's nest are my favorites on the album. It would have been a fine release if it had been trimmed down a bit and had better production.
It would have been a fine release if it had been trimmed down a bit and had better production.
a fine release if it had been trimmed down a bit and had better production.
a fine release
There's no saving that album.
...Oh my god, I think I'm starting to understand how TAC feels whenever we bring up Promised Land or Power Windows. :lol
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Yeah, but Promised Land and Power Windows are legitimately great albums, while Hear in the Now Frontier is anything but.
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Yeah, but Promised Land and Power Windows are legitimately great albums, while Hear in the Now Frontier is anything but.
I was trying to be nice, but yeah, you're completely spot on with this. :biggrin:
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Yeah, but Promised Land and Power Windows are legitimately great albums, while Hear in the Now Frontier is anything but.
This is the correct response.
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I think the problem with Hear in the Now Frontier is that the deeper cuts aren't as good. The filler doesn't fill the record well enough.
I mean, using my own list above as reference, I really like 7 songs from a 14-track record, and there are four others (Saved, Hero, Get a Life, Cuckoo's Next) that to me, are good filler with flaws (Saved's chorus is terrible, Hero plods but the guitar work is stellar, etc.). But all four, for me, are certainly listenable. They are filler. That brings the record to 11 songs.
7 out of 11 is a pretty damn good percentage. The problem is the remaining three (again, for me). I can honestly say that before HITNF, there was never a Queensryche album that I thought had three songs I never really wanted to listen to. But Anytime/Anywhere, All I Want, and Miles Away fit that. They feel like demo ideas just slapped on there.
And I think, from reading most of the responses here, that while what constitutes the "filler" tracks will differ among us, the general problem is the same -- the filler material is just so subpar in comparison to the deep album cuts of the records that came before it.
p.s. I thought Chasing Blue Sky should have easily replaced Miles Away, which had it, would have brought the total number of good songs to 8 for me, personally. But still 8 out of 15 from the Hear in the Now Frontier era is a damn fine percentage of tunes.
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This would be my version of the album - remixed, of course:
1. Sign of the times
2. Cuckoo's nest
3. Get a life
4. The Voice inside
5. Some people fly
6. You
7. Hero
8. Miles away
9. Reach
10. All I want
11. Sp00l
Some people fly, Hero and Miles away are still kind of average, but they don't bother me as much as the tracks I cut off. If this were the track list and the sound were better, I would actually put on the album every now and then.
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I think the problem with Hear in the Now Frontier is that the deeper cuts aren't as good. The filler doesn't fill the record well enough.
I mean, using my own list above as reference, I really like 7 songs from a 14-track record, and there are four others (Saved, Hero, Get a Life, Cuckoo's Next) that to me, are good filler with flaws (Saved's chorus is terrible, Hero plods but the guitar work is stellar, etc.). But all four, for me, are certainly listenable. They are filler. That brings the record to 11 songs.
7 out of 11 is a pretty damn good percentage. The problem is the remaining three (again, for me). I can honestly say that before HITNF, there was never a Queensryche album that I thought had three songs I never really wanted to listen to. But Anytime/Anywhere, All I Want, and Miles Away fit that. They feel like demo ideas just slapped on there.
And I think, from reading most of the responses here, that while what constitutes the "filler" tracks will differ among us, the general problem is the same -- the filler material is just so subpar in comparison to the deep album cuts of the records that came before it.
p.s. I thought Chasing Blue Sky should have easily replaced Miles Away, which had it, would have brought the total number of good songs to 8 for me, personally. But still 8 out of 15 from the Hear in the Now Frontier era is a damn fine percentage of tunes.
I dunno. I keep trying to listen HITNF (heck, I'm listening to it right now actually :lol ) and it just... isn't clicking with me, except for Hit the Black and Reach maybe. By and large, the album comes off to me like Chris and Tate both really wanted to do more of a grunge album, while Wilton, Ed and Scott come across as rather checked out from the material. And despite probably being for this change in direction, Tate unfortunately didn't have the right sort of voice for grunge. He sounds out of place, despite clearly trying to me.
It's just... a dead album to me. Which is weird. I don't feel that way about Q2K or Tribe, even if I rarely ever revisit those albums. Bizarrely the band sound a bit more unified on those albums than HITNF, despite that almost certainly not being the case in practice. And I block out the rest of the Post-Tribe Tate era stuff anyhow so I'm kind of a blank slate on that front until we get to the s/t album in 2013. :lol
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Yeah, but Promised Land and Power Windows are legitimately great were seriously disappointing and inferior albums
ftfy
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I love how some people seem to like certain songs, while others think they are the worst songs on HITNF, some think it has tons of emotion and some say it is lifeless, some hate the mix, some love the mix quality and grunge feel. To me that is what made Chris and Geoff QR truly art and polarizing and never did they get in the box of what the fans or label wanted. to me its a bitter sweet CD as you can feel Geoff struggling at times with knowing that Chris had made up his mind to leave and save his marriage and pursue his flying investment and leave the music scene . I love the dry mix on Geoffs voice , really shows his acoustic abilities and how he was able to do what Chris was trying to convey on what is a very personal Chris exit album. I l love that CD more and more and always have , it had a very mature feel when I was much younger, now I see it clearly. thats true art , in some ways its their best , its just not heavy metal, just hard rock meets grunge, meets folksy
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MG - I think Chris has a very defined vision for the record. Something looser, something that was more accessible that incorporated the alternative sound that was popular at the time. And I think for the most part, the songs on there marry that with Queensryche's brand of hard rock. But yes, I agree that Geoff's voice doesn't quite suit that direction, but he pulled it off in spots on that record well enough. Again, i don't think Queensryche was attempting to be a grunge or alternative band. I think the goal was to incorporate alternative elements, a more spontaneous approach, and good melodies to appeal to radio. And I think HITNF achieved that.
Does that alternative style appeal to the Queensryche audience? It's hard to say. Like I said earlier, I firmly believe HITNF would have blown PL out of the water in terms of success had EMI not folded. Sign of the Times and You were big at radio, and HITNF is chock full of singles. As I said before, HITNF is essentially modeled after Empire. It's just HITNF shifts things to the more alternative sound to a degree that was popular at the time.
I get the...difficulty with the record. I really do. But over time, it really grew on me. Focusing on the guitar work really helped. I can't say enough about just how great the guitars are on the record.
As for me, I compare HITNF to Soundgarden's Down on the Upside. To me, both are very similar in style and sound to a degree. But I'm a Soundgarden fan, so what I find cool and pleasing to hear incorporated into QR's sound may obviously not appeal to those that aren't.
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I personally find NO FILLER on HITNF. songs like Saved, You, Reach. Miles away. Hero, are all amazing songs that Chris really wanted to be heard , Im glad they put them all out and made it a very long album for Chris's finale, in some ways Spool to me is a bit tedious and could be shortened by a minute, but other than that its a perfect CD to me
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Yeah, but Promised Land and Power Windows are legitimately great albums, while Hear in the Now Frontier is anything but.
This is the correct response.
Thirded...
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MG - I think Chris has a very defined vision for the record. Something looser, something that was more accessible that incorporated the alternative sound that was popular at the time. And I think for the most part, the songs on there marry that with Queensryche's brand of hard rock. But yes, I agree that Geoff's voice doesn't quite suit that direction, but he pulled it off in spots on that record well enough. Again, i don't think Queensryche was attempting to be a grunge or alternative band. I think the goal was to incorporate alternative elements, a more spontaneous approach, and good melodies to appeal to radio. And I think HITNF achieved that.
Does that alternative style appeal to the Queensryche audience? It's hard to say. Like I said earlier, I firmly believe HITNF would have blown PL out of the water in terms of success had EMI not folded. Sign of the Times and You were big at radio, and HITNF is chock full of singles. As I said before, HITNF is essentially modeled after Empire. It's just HITNF shifts things to the more alternative sound to a degree that was popular at the time.
I get the...difficulty with the record. I really do. But over time, it really grew on me. Focusing on the guitar work really helped. I can't say enough about just how great the guitars are on the record.
As for me, I compare HITNF to Soundgarden's Down on the Upside. To me, both are very similar in style and sound to a degree. But I'm a Soundgarden fan, so what I find cool and pleasing to hear incorporated into QR's sound may obviously not appeal to those that aren't.
Oh I don't disagree that Chris had a very specific vision in mind for HITNF and I absolutely get what he was aiming for. And yeah, had EMI been in a better state financially at the time, I wager HITNF probably would have been a huge sales success in a way that Promised Land wasn't. I don't disagree with any of that.
My issue is that it feels like Chris and Geoff are the only two people in the band that sound particularly invested in what they're performing on the album. I can hear Chris doing some great guitarwork and Geoff trying his damnedest to make his voice work despite it not being a natural fit. I can get why HITNF has fans... it just doesn't register to me, because it sounds like three fifths of the band are out of sync with the other two. :lol
I don't regularly listen to grunge, but I don't dislike it. I'm fond enough of bands like Soundgarden and Alice in Chains. But the difference there to me is that I can tell all of the members of those bands are in sync with each other, much like how the original Queensryche sounded from the E.P. all the way to Promised Land. I feel like I'd probably enjoy HITNF more if Chris and Geoff had somehow opted to make that album as a side-project with other local Seattle musicians that were just as interested in grunge and alternative rock/metal as they were... or if Michael, Ed and Scott were all somehow interested in the material too.
I actually went back and checked the songwriting credits earlier and I find it telling that the two songs I liked best on HITNF (Hit the Black and Reach) were both co-written by either Ed or Michael, rather than Chris. The band sounds more alive on those two tracks, likely because it's material they contributed.
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I was listening to the latest Conception album and Roy would have seem a very good choice as vocalist for the current QR lineup. I realize logistics would have made this impossible but his voice was an obvious fit when I heard the Conception album.
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MG,
:tup
I get what you are saying. I can hear that. Queensryche morphed away from Wilton's strengths on PL and HITNF. Ed and Scott though, I don't think they sound disinterested at all though. But Wilton certainly took a back seat on HITNF.
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I was listening to the latest Conception album and Roy would have seem a very good choice as vocalist for the current QR lineup. I realize logistics would have made this impossible but his voice was an obvious fit when I heard the Conception album.
I love Roy, but he wouldn't have fit Queensryche at all. He's definitely lost a lot in his upper range, even going back to the last Kamelot album(s) that he sang on. When QR brought Todd in, they wanted someone that could sing the old, higher-ranged songs that Geoff wasn't interested in playing.
Plus, Roy left the music industry to focus on his personal life and only within the last year or two has he reunited with Conception.
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I was listening to the latest Conception album and Roy would have seem a very good choice as vocalist for the current QR lineup. I realize logistics would have made this impossible but his voice was an obvious fit when I heard the Conception album.
I love Roy, but he wouldn't have fit Queensryche at all. He's definitely lost a lot in his upper range, even going back to the last Kamelot album(s) that he sang on. When QR brought Todd in, they wanted someone that could sing the old, higher-ranged songs that Geoff wasn't interested in playing.
Plus, Roy left the music industry to focus on his personal life and only within the last year or two has he reunited with Conception.
Todd sounds very strained (and sometimes horrible) when hitting the upper ranges. I don't think Todd's voice will last long the way he sings.
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MG,
:tup
I get what you are saying. I can hear that. Queensryche morphed away from Wilton's strengths on PL and HITNF. Ed and Scott though, I don't think they sound disinterested at all though. But Wilton certainly took a back seat on HITNF.
Yeah, I've tried to get onboard with HITNF for ages now. For some reason, I just can't. :lol
On the bright side though, I've been jamming to The Warning a lot lately and God does it hold up well. Such a stellar album! :metal
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HITNF is the only QR album I haven't heard a single note from.
Wait, Tribe. I havn't heard Tribe either
Maybe this week!
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huh.
posted on August 21st....
Eddie Trunk
@EddieTrunk
Just had a long phone chat w/ @queensryche
drummer & old friend Scott Rockenfield. He’s indeed alive & well & it was great catching up. As soon as he’s ready he will be coming on #TrunkNation to check in & say what he’s up to. Maybe next month. More soon!
Still waiting.
Just listened to a recent thing on YouTube where he discusses that conversation and it really does sound like Rockenfield gave Trunk a non-committal answer and Trunk, being the kind of person he is, ran with it.
Also, Trunk goes on to speculate about DeGarmo/Tate/Rockenfield getting together to play. No further comment.
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huh.
posted on August 21st....
Eddie Trunk
@EddieTrunk
Just had a long phone chat w/ @queensryche
drummer & old friend Scott Rockenfield. He’s indeed alive & well & it was great catching up. As soon as he’s ready he will be coming on #TrunkNation to check in & say what he’s up to. Maybe next month. More soon!
Still waiting.
Just listened to a recent thing on YouTube where he discusses that conversation and it really does sound like Rockenfield gave Trunk a non-committal answer and Trunk, being the kind of person he is, ran with it.
Also, Trunk goes on to speculate about DeGarmo/Tate/Rockenfield getting together to play. No further comment.
Ha! I remember waiting for Eddie to make some announcement, and have forgotten about it ever since, which is probably exactly what he wants at this time. Pretty sure he knows something but was told to keep his yapper shut. I say this because I asked someone who's profile is similar (in music journalism and is a known name in the music industry) and while he said that he knows some details that aren't public knowledge, he didn't feel it was his place to speak about them.
I would imagine we'll eventually find out what happened - at least to a degree - but it might not be for a loooooonnnnnng time.
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Did my post trigger your alarm ...?
Your posts on PL trigger alarm in most of us, Tim. :biggrin:
I get that you don't care for PL. But it has always somewhat baffled me that it is because the songs don't feel "complete" or as deep to you. To me, and many, love them or hate them, I just feel it's hard to deny how deep and complex the songs on PL are, even the ones that sound straightforward on the surface. :dunno:
What I think gets overlooked sometimes with PL and with HITNF is that one of the band's major riff writers wasn't nearly as prolific during these cycles. Wilton was huge for QR from the EP-Empire. And then after Empire, he took a backseat for various reasons. Then again, most folks love "Damaged" off PL, and Wilton didn't write that song -- Chris did, musically.
Yeah, it's easy to associate Mike as the "metal" guy, and Chris as the amtmosphere/melody guy. But Chris is absolutely a metal guy too, and Damaged is a good reminder.
Regarding the singles, I also can confirm that I Am I was the first single. But that said, it got VERY little radio play (at least locally in N. Cal.) and pretty limited MTV play as well. I think I maybe saw it played on MTV once, if at all, and I think I may have heard it once or twice on radio either just prior to or just after release of the album. It felt like you were more likely to hear one of the singles from Empire than I Am I. Bridge did a bit better.
I remember Sign of the Times and You getting a lot more airplay during the HITNF cycle. I even heard Reach a couple of times, I believe before the album dropped. Without looking it up, I don't believe it was a single. But local radio must have gotten a promo copy and liked the song.
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bosk:
Yep, the first single for PL was I Am I, followed by Bridge, and then Dis-con-nec-ted. Someone Else? was a promotional single (I have the CD).
Hear in the Now Frontier, the singles were Sign of the Times and You. The Voice Inside and spOOL were both promotional singles (I tracked down the latter two years back) and probably would have been released. But I think Reach had great potential for singles.
I did this blog a few years back on the singles from PL:
http://anybodylistening.net/promisedlandsingles.html
I totally think different choices could have led to the album doing way better (it still sold a million, but that was down from the 3.5 million of Empire).
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bosk:
Yep, the first single for PL was I Am I, followed by Bridge, and then Dis-con-nec-ted. Someone Else? was a promotional single (I have the CD).
Hear in the Now Frontier, the singles were Sign of the Times and You. The Voice Inside and spOOL were both promotional singles (I tracked down the latter two years back) and probably would have been released. But I think Reach had great potential for singles.
I did this blog a few years back on the singles from PL:
http://anybodylistening.net/promisedlandsingles.html
I totally think different choices could have led to the album doing way better (it still sold a million, but that was down from the 3.5 million of Empire).
I keep meaning to pull Hear In The Now Frontier off of the shelf for a good listen. Haven't listened to it in years.
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bosk:
Yep, the first single for PL was I Am I, followed by Bridge, and then Dis-con-nec-ted. Someone Else? was a promotional single (I have the CD).
Hear in the Now Frontier, the singles were Sign of the Times and You. The Voice Inside and spOOL were both promotional singles (I tracked down the latter two years back) and probably would have been released. But I think Reach had great potential for singles.
I did this blog a few years back on the singles from PL:
http://anybodylistening.net/promisedlandsingles.html
I totally think different choices could have led to the album doing way better (it still sold a million, but that was down from the 3.5 million of Empire).
Yeah, I’m not as big a fan of Promised Land as some, it was my first QR album but not on the strength of any singles, just purely on reviews I’d read. I found it patchy, and still do, but the songs I did like made me investigate them further and, as soon as I heard the Empire album, I had a new favourite band. Damaged should definitely have been the lead off single and One More Time is a forgotten gem which should have been another single. I also find Bridge to be the least interesting of all the slower songs on the album. Out Of Mind has a much more memorable acoustic riff and feels uniquely Queensr˙che and Lady Jane a catchier chorus. Yes those two songs are a little darker and more unsettling but they have that atmospheric unique Queensr˙che feel whereas Bridge could be any acoustic ballad, apart from the guitar solo which is recognisably QR.
Singles aside though, the album is simply not as accessible as Empire. There are not as many songs with huge melodic singalong choruses. You have to applaud them maybe for going for something more ambitious and deep but it lacked that super melodic sound and immediacy of the albums that came before apart from a few songs. They could have released better singles and maybe sold more albums than they did but ultimately it was never going to match Empire as the songs aren’t as strong imo.
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I Am I was definitely the first single from PL, as I remember hearing it and thinking, "Who in the hell is this??" Keep in mind that at that point all I knew by the band, IIRC, was the Empire hits, Real World, and some of Mindcrime.
Promised Land was the first of a handful of albums where I went from "WTF is this?" on the first few listens to the lightbulb moment of "OMG, this is awesome!!"
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I Am I was definitely the first single from PL, as I remember hearing it and thinking, "Who in the hell is this??"
Yep, the first single for PL was I Am I, followed by Bridge, and then Dis-con-nec-ted. Someone Else? was a promotional single (I have the CD).
:rollin :rollin
Singles aside though, the album is simply not as accessible as Empire. There are not as many songs with huge melodic singalong choruses. You have to applaud them maybe for going for something more ambitious and deep but it lacked that super melodic sound and immediacy of the albums that came before apart from a few songs. They could have released better singles and maybe sold more albums than they did but ultimately it was never going to match Empire as the songs aren’t as strong imo.
You have to remember too, that the band was on the verge of breaking up after Empire. I know they sugarcoat it and say how they took a long break, etc., but the truth of the matter is, Tate got divorced and taken to the cleaners and was depressed, Rockenfield got divorced, Wilton had his issues, etc. Chris pretty much pulled everyone together and got it everyone out to do the record. I think that vibe of darkness and disillusionment is what makes the album special.
I personally think the songs are as strong, if not stronger than Empire, but as you said -- they aren't nearly as accessible. And I think that was actually the point. Sure, they have Bridge on there as a sort of acoustic ballad in the vein of Silent Lucidity, but its way darker. I very much respect Queensryche for deciding that they were just going to do what they felt, as opposed to what was expected. I actually think Promised Land has weathered the test of time much better than Empire (with the exception of a few songs like Anybody Listening, the title track, Best I Can, and Della Brown). Debatable for sure, but sitting here thinking about it right this second, that's what I feel.
Promised Land was not for everyone, much in the same way A Pleasant Shade of Gray from Fates Warning wasn't for everyone either. It took me a long time to get into the latter, and its still not as good (to me) as most Fates fans rate it. So I totally understand the perspective of those like you and TAC who are not very fond of Promised Land.
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p.s. by the way, I found a new bootleg (new to me at least, as I didn't have the show in my collection) that was packaged up as a silver CD. It was from November 13, 1991 at Cincinnati Gardens, in Cincinnati, Ohio. Plucked from the DAT master of the gig. I decided to review it. Check it out:
Queensryche Sings the Queen City Blues [Album Review] (http://anybodylistening.net/queencityblues.html)
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The “accessibility” is precisely why I didn’t care for Empire (especially JCW and ARNWY) and the lack thereof is why I prefer PL.
I don’t know what it is. But songs that people point to as “accessible” almost always come across as extremely bland to me. Even Fates Warning’s singles have always struck me as their least interesting material. Eye to Eye can be fun in small doses, but I tire of it rather quickly.
Back to QR, even my favorite album RFO leads off with the weakest song...although it’s easier to get through because it’s such a contrast to the rest of the album. But over all, I Am I might be my favorite QR “single” of all time.
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Queensryche's Empire was basically Metallica's Black Album, as both albums were created with a great deal of accessibility and radio potential in mind.
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I actually think Promised Land has weathered the test of time much better than Empire
For my own tastes, I would say they both have weathered the test of time equally well, but for much different reasons. I have a hard time believing they will put out anything that surpasses those two, and they are easily my 1a and 1b. Both timeless classics. And whichever one occupies the top spot in a given moment more a reflection on my mood than anything else.
I remember what really threw me for a bit of a loop and turned me off a bit initially about PL was that it just didn't really showcase the heavy, uptempo rocking side of the band. I remember listening at the time, and thinking 9:28 a.m. was a cool intro to set a dark, moody, vibe, I Am I was a really cool album opener that sounded unexpected in many ways, but still fitting, and then going right into the heavy of Damages, I felt like "OK! Here we go. Still mid-tempo, but pretty crunchy, and sounds like we are REALLY setting the stage for some dark, heavy stuff that is going to be completely facemelting. Wait for it...WAIT FOR IT...AND..." ...nothing of the sort. :lol
I didn't have an instantaneous "lightbulb" moment like Samsara. For me, it was just a gradual thing in listening to the album and letting it slowly sink in. It is definitely an album to be experienced rather that just thrown on for a casual listen. There is a lot of experimentation, and a lot of layering, and texturing, much of which is subtle and not in your face. There is a consistent theme of mood, but at the same time, there is a lot going on, and a lot of variety and texture. And at the end of the day, that's what makes this album such a home run for me.
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Queensryche's Empire was basically Metallica's Black Album, as both albums were created with a great deal of accessibility and radio potential in mind.
Even before Empire though their songs were melodic and catchy, just a bit more operatic and metal. Promised Land to me was then they moved away from that on some songs at least and made more difficult arty stuff. Don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t impenetrable or anything but lots of the songs did not have huge hooks or memorable choruses that you’d belt out a concert or singalong to on the radio. That doesn’t necessarily mean one is better than the other but, with the odd exception, it is usually the difference between selling millions of records and not.
I probably love about half of Promised Land, maybe two thirds on a good day, but there’s 4 or 5 songs that have just never done that much for me and, coming off one of the greatest 3 album runs in metal history, that makes it a bit of a step down for me. Nothing compared to what came after of course which was not so much a step down as them falling off a cliff!
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Unless there's something I'm forgetting, Promised Land always struck me as Queensr˙che's only truly experimental album, & on top of me thinking it's an amazing album, I also appreciate it for that.
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I had never heard anything even remotely sound like RFO when it first came out. So I consider it to be very experimental for its time. That’s the reason I’ve always nicknamed PL “RFO with a budget.”
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I had never heard anything even remotely sound like RFO when it first came out. So I consider it to be very experimental for its time. That’s the reason I’ve always nicknamed PL “RFO with a budget.”
Interesting. I'd never really thought the two to be connected, but then again I've listened to RFO much less, so idk.
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I don't mind the accessibility of Empire. A good song is a good song, and sometimes those good songs can be instantly catchy, but of course a lot can be said about great songs that don't show you all of their cards on the first listen.
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I had never heard anything even remotely sound like RFO when it first came out. So I consider it to be very experimental for its time. That’s the reason I’ve always nicknamed PL “RFO with a budget.”
Interesting. I'd never really thought the two to be connected, but then again I've listened to RFO much less, so idk.
Not really “connected” but a similar attitude. Empire, for better or for worse, was a grab at fame. An attempt (a successful one) to gain a broader audience by losing some of the experimentation that started the buzz in the first place. Once they were “on top of the world” it seemed to give them a certain amount of freedom to do something weird again.
I really miss the formula. Chris was the melody, Whip was the muscle, Geoff was the madness. And it took all three to make it work. The newer stuff is actually very decent stuff, but I can’t deny that a certain weirdness factor is missing. Although Eye9 seemed to give a brief flash of the old trifecta.
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Once they were “on top of the world” it seemed to give them a certain amount of freedom to do something weird again.
I think of PL in a similar fashion. There are a LOT of comparisons between RFO and PL. The albums aren't related, but there are similarities between the two (which is natural). But as you said, because of the budget, and that it was eight years later, the production is just SO much better (not a slight to Neil Kernon, it was 1986 after all). PL, to me, has the best overall production and sound in QR's catalog.
I really miss the formula. Chris was the melody, Whip was the muscle, Geoff was the madness. And it took all three to make it work. The newer stuff is actually very decent stuff, but I can’t deny that a certain weirdness factor is missing. Although Eye9 seemed to give a brief flash of the old trifecta.
Agreed with all of it. I used to say Chris was the heart, Geoff was the soul, and Michael was the balls in their writing.
Newer QR is good, but it sounds different because all the core writers except Michael is gone, and their backbone, Rockenfield is gone too, which has altered significantly what they sound like. It's good, but it's not the same.
Eye9 from Condition Human - yeah, that one felt like old school Ryche.
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But as you said, because of the budget, and that it was eight years later, the production is just SO much better (not a slight to Neil Kernon, it was 1986 after all). PL, to me, has the best overall production and sound in QR's catalog.
Warning: The following post is to not once again express my complete lack of understanding of what people see in Promised Land, as I don't want to just be negative.
BUT, my question is...
Can an album have such a good production that it actually enhances a less than stellar song? Can it make it feel fuller, deeper?
I feel like FII lives on as well as it has because of its pristine production.
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Warning: The following post is to not once again express my complete lack of understanding of what people see in Promised Land, as I don't want to just be negative.
BUT, my question is...
Can an album have such a good production that it actually enhances a less than stellar song? Can it make it feel fuller, deeper?
I feel like FII lives on as well as it has because of its pristine production.
Absolutely.
On the flip side, poor or mediocre production can hinder what would have been a great song, like if certain great qualities about it are buried in the mix.
I should add as well that great production is not all about dynamics, which seems to be the common thought process. FII doesn't have great dynamics, yet still sounds great.
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Vapor Trails is a good example.
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Promised Land does indeed sound amazing. I often said that I wish RFO had come along a few years later and copped the production of Empire/PL . Unfortunately for me the songs on PL didn't connect with me anything like RFO did , aside from One More Time which is an all time fave. I wouldn't say I dislike PL but of the pre-HITNF albums it would be my lowest ranked.
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On the flip side, poor or mediocre production can hinder what would have been a great song, like if certain great qualities about it are buried in the mix.
Exactly - I think that's one of the big issues why WDaDU sees little love among DT fans (besides Charlie doing the vocals). Had the production been at the level of Awake, FII or SFaM, I'm sure it would've gotten more love. In fact, I think Tim is one of the several people here who don't like WDaDU, but do like WDaDR.
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And while we’re on that subject, The Warning suffers from the poor production as well. The songs themselves are excellent, but the guitars sound so distant and thin. The production really takes the umph out of it.
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And while we’re on that subject, The Warning suffers from the poor production as well. The songs themselves are excellent, but the guitars sound so distant and thin. The production really takes the umph out of it.
Agreed. I like that album, but I am more likely to reach for a song or two at a time from it, rather than ever listening to the whole thing, and the sound of it is a major reason. I don't mind when bands have early releases that sound a bit raw (I greatly prefer The Who's rough and raw sound of the 60's over their polished sound of the 70's, for example), but The Warning just sounds like a band who didn't have the funds or knowledge yet to make a record that sounded good. Rage for Order was a big leap in sound, while still retaining that bit of early edge and rawness.
On the flip side, poor or mediocre production can hinder what would have been a great song, like if certain great qualities about it are buried in the mix.
Exactly - I think that's one of the big issues why WDaDU sees little love among DT fans (besides Charlie doing the vocals). Had the production been at the level of Awake, FII or SFaM, I'm sure it would've gotten more love. In fact, I think Tim is one of the several people here who don't like WDaDU, but do like WDaDR.
Agreed. Plus, I can't help but think that some newer DT songs would be more highly regarded if they had sounded better.
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On the flip side, poor or mediocre production can hinder what would have been a great song, like if certain great qualities about it are buried in the mix.
Exactly - I think that's one of the big issues why WDaDU sees little love among DT fans (besides Charlie doing the vocals). Had the production been at the level of Awake, FII or SFaM, I'm sure it would've gotten more love. In fact, I think Tim is one of the several people here who don't like WDaDU, but do like WDaDR.
Yeah, I have less of a problem with WDADU's production as I do with the vocals. And by that, I mean, I don't have a problem with the vocals, but I guess I prefer the same singer on my music. I don't make a Maiden playlist with three different singers. I make one or the other, and any song from the three eras are songs sung by Bruce.
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And while we’re on that subject, The Warning suffers from the poor production as well. The songs themselves are excellent, but the guitars sound so distant and thin. The production really takes the umph out of it.
Agreed. I like that album, but I am more likely to reach for a song or two at a time from it, rather than ever listening to the whole thing, and the sound of it is a major reason. I don't mind when bands have early releases that sound a bit raw (I greatly prefer The Who's rough and raw sound of the 60's over their polished sound of the 70's, for example), but The Warning just sounds like a band who didn't have the funds or knowledge yet to make a record that sounded good. Rage for Order was a big leap in sound, while still retaining that bit of early edge and rawness.
On the flip side, poor or mediocre production can hinder what would have been a great song, like if certain great qualities about it are buried in the mix.
Exactly - I think that's one of the big issues why WDaDU sees little love among DT fans (besides Charlie doing the vocals). Had the production been at the level of Awake, FII or SFaM, I'm sure it would've gotten more love. In fact, I think Tim is one of the several people here who don't like WDaDU, but do like WDaDR.
Agreed. Plus, I can't help but think that some newer DT songs would be more highly regarded if they had sounded better.
Queensryche choosing a non-metal producer probably didn't help either.
As a fan at the time, lots of albums didn't sound that great back then so it was very rarely a deal breaker for me back then.
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And while we’re on that subject, The Warning suffers from the poor production as well. The songs themselves are excellent, but the guitars sound so distant and thin. The production really takes the umph out of it.
Absolutely. It is really a shame that they (the label) didn't take advantage of the remaster series in 2003 and gave The Warning a proper remix. Once I resequenced that record into its proper track order, I completely fell in love with that record to the point that its my #2 after Mindcrime. It still wouldn't surpass Mindcrime, but a remix so the guitars are more prominent, man...so much great stuff on that record.
re: WDADU vs. WDADRU - I'm one of those that enjoys the latter far more than the former. No disrespect to Charlie at all, but Dream Theater found their voice with James, and I much prefer WDADRU. And production wise, the fact an official bootleg sounds better than the actual record is just :tdwn I get it, the times (see The Warning from QR), but yeah, that record could be way better.
re: PL - the funny thing about that record is that while we give TAC a lot of shit for not liking it, I totally get why he doesn't, and his opinion is shared by a LOT of people. I don't happen to agree, but because it took me a bit to "get" PL and really vibe off it, I understand. That first week I had the record I was very much like - WTF? Then it just sort of grabbed me, and I've been on the PL train ever since.
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I Am I was definitely the first single from PL, as I remember hearing it and thinking, "Who in the hell is this??"
Yep, the first single for PL was I Am I, followed by Bridge, and then Dis-con-nec-ted. Someone Else? was a promotional single (I have the CD).
:rollin :rollin
Singles aside though, the album is simply not as accessible as Empire. There are not as many songs with huge melodic singalong choruses. You have to applaud them maybe for going for something more ambitious and deep but it lacked that super melodic sound and immediacy of the albums that came before apart from a few songs. They could have released better singles and maybe sold more albums than they did but ultimately it was never going to match Empire as the songs aren’t as strong imo.
You have to remember too, that the band was on the verge of breaking up after Empire. I know they sugarcoat it and say how they took a long break, etc., but the truth of the matter is, Tate got divorced and taken to the cleaners and was depressed, Rockenfield got divorced, Wilton had his issues, etc. Chris pretty much pulled everyone together and got it everyone out to do the record. I think that vibe of darkness and disillusionment is what makes the album special.
I personally think the songs are as strong, if not stronger than Empire, but as you said -- they aren't nearly as accessible. And I think that was actually the point. Sure, they have Bridge on there as a sort of acoustic ballad in the vein of Silent Lucidity, but its way darker. I very much respect Queensryche for deciding that they were just going to do what they felt, as opposed to what was expected. I actually think Promised Land has weathered the test of time much better than Empire (with the exception of a few songs like Anybody Listening, the title track, Best I Can, and Della Brown). Debatable for sure, but sitting here thinking about it right this second, that's what I feel.
Promised Land was not for everyone, much in the same way A Pleasant Shade of Gray from Fates Warning wasn't for everyone either. It took me a long time to get into the latter, and its still not as good (to me) as most Fates fans rate it. So I totally understand the perspective of those like you and TAC who are not very fond of Promised Land.
Totally agree about Promised Land. Maybe Empire and Anybody Listening are even in the same league. Can't even remember the last time I listened to Empire.
Promised Land was such a slow burn album for me. It didn't help that Awake came out at the same time and Promised Land kind of got left on the back burner for about 6 months.
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Queensryche's Empire was basically Metallica's Black Album, as both albums were created with a great deal of accessibility and radio potential in mind.
I'm grateful for Empire because it gave the band its headlining gig and the chance to play all of Operation Mindcrime live. If that's not worth the price of admission, I don't know what is. Promised Land is still my favorite tour, but I suppose the Empire tour would be a distant second.
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And while we’re on that subject, The Warning suffers from the poor production as well. The songs themselves are excellent, but the guitars sound so distant and thin. The production really takes the umph out of it.
Even Mindcrime with Peter Collins isn't all that great in the production department. It's always sounded dated and thin to me. Prefer LIVECrime much more.
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And while we’re on that subject, The Warning suffers from the poor production as well. The songs themselves are excellent, but the guitars sound so distant and thin. The production really takes the umph out of it.
Absolutely. It is really a shame that they (the label) didn't take advantage of the remaster series in 2003 and gave The Warning a proper remix. Once I resequenced that record into its proper track order, I completely fell in love with that record to the point that its my #2 after Mindcrime. It still wouldn't surpass Mindcrime, but a remix so the guitars are more prominent, man...so much great stuff on that record.
re: WDADU vs. WDADRU - I'm one of those that enjoys the latter far more than the former. No disrespect to Charlie at all, but Dream Theater found their voice with James, and I much prefer WDADRU. And production wise, the fact an official bootleg sounds better than the actual record is just :tdwn I get it, the times (see The Warning from QR), but yeah, that record could be way better.
re: PL - the funny thing about that record is that while we give TAC a lot of shit for not liking it, I totally get why he doesn't, and his opinion is shared by a LOT of people. I don't happen to agree, but because it took me a bit to "get" PL and really vibe off it, I understand. That first week I had the record I was very much like - WTF? Then it just sort of grabbed me, and I've been on the PL train ever since.
If you're not into the lyrics, it probably doesn't help much. For the most part, I'm a fan of the lyrics. (At least through Hear In The Now Frontier anyway.)
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PL's lyrics were, at least to me, a departure for QR. Their songs were always generally fictional (with obvious exceptions like London, etc.), or social commentary, or if introspective, more about a topic. In retrospect, I should have seen that with songs such Hand on Heart, Last Time in Paris, and One and Only, that they were trending that direction lyrically. And when PL hit, man, it was just really dark and deep lyrically. To this day, I'm surprised Geoff and Chris shared so much. PL is a pretty special record, whether a person likes it or not.
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PL's lyrics were, at least to me, a departure for QR. Their songs were always generally fictional (with obvious exceptions like London, etc.), or social commentary, or if introspective, more about a topic. In retrospect, I should have seen that with songs such Hand on Heart, Last Time in Paris, and One and Only, that they were trending that direction lyrically. And when PL hit, man, it was just really dark and deep lyrically. To this day, I'm surprised Geoff and Chris shared so much. PL is a pretty special record, whether a person likes it or not.
That's a major reason I love it so much and probably consider it my favorite Queensryche album just above LIVECrime and Rage.
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That's a major reason I love it so much and probably consider it my favorite Queensryche album just above LIVECrime and Rage.
Funny you mention LIVEcrime. I was just thinking this weekend how while Operation: Mindcrime is bar none, my favorite album of all time, I sort of prefer Operation: LIVEcrime because of the energy factor, and the Anarchy-X reprise (Anarchy-Xtra) as the ending.
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I've been on a Queensryche kick lately and I will proudly say that their latest album "The Verdict" has become my second favorite album in their whole catalogue, Operation Mindcrime being my first. It doesn't even bother me that they have a different singer, the songs are strong and Todd can really belt it.
I really like how The Verdict comes in with a bang and keeps that momentum with the next few songs. My only minor drawback is that the album starts to lose its steam towards the end, but the songs are still good.
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That's a major reason I love it so much and probably consider it my favorite Queensryche album just above LIVECrime and Rage.
Funny you mention LIVEcrime. I was just thinking this weekend how while Operation: Mindcrime is bar none, my favorite album of all time, I sort of prefer Operation: LIVEcrime because of the energy factor, and the Anarchy-X reprise (Anarchy-Xtra) as the ending.
Ever noticed that the audio mix is reversed? Chris is in the left channel, and Michael in the right. I watched it recently and it started annoying me :lol
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I've been on a Queensryche kick lately and I will proudly say that their latest album "The Verdict" has become my second favorite album in their whole catalogue, Operation Mindcrime being my first. It doesn't even bother me that they have a different singer, the songs are strong and Todd can really belt it.
I really like how The Verdict comes in with a bang and keeps that momentum with the next few songs. My only minor drawback is that the album starts to lose its steam towards the end, but the songs are still good.
The Verdict has really grown for me. I wouldn't rank it at second best, but probably in a top 5.
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It's an excellent album.
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That's a major reason I love it so much and probably consider it my favorite Queensryche album just above LIVECrime and Rage.
Funny you mention LIVEcrime. I was just thinking this weekend how while Operation: Mindcrime is bar none, my favorite album of all time, I sort of prefer Operation: LIVEcrime because of the energy factor, and the Anarchy-X reprise (Anarchy-Xtra) as the ending.
Ever noticed that the audio mix is reversed? Chris is in the left channel, and Michael in the right. I watched it recently and it started annoying me :lol
Interesting. I never picked up on that.
Regarding Verdict, I'll have to revisit it. I liked it, but to me, it didn't reach the stellar heights of its predecessors. To me, the s/t with Todd was excellent, and its only "flaw" was that some songs felt a bit underdeveloped and there was a bit of "we just haven't quite gelled as a writing team yet, but just wait" to it. I felt like Condition Human really ramped things up and, other than the title track, they knocked it out of the park. Verdict just didn't resonate with me nearly as much.
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I haven't heard Condition Human yet, maybe that will he my next purchase. Yeah Bosk I highly recommend revisiting The Verdict and give it a couple spins. I liked it the first time, but it really sank in after a few listens on a nice stereo.. :metal
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The Verdict was a real grower for me too.
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I felt The Verdict was the current Queensryche finally finding their own identity. On the first two albums without Tate, particularly in retrospect, it sounds like they are trying to fit into the niche that Queensryche was in the late-80s and early-90s with a modern twist. On The Verdict, it sounds like they are just being who they are, at the moment.
All of those records have their own appeal to them, but The Verdict I think best captures their new chemistry.
Ever noticed that the audio mix is reversed? Chris is in the left channel, and Michael in the right. I watched it recently and it started annoying me :lol
No, I never noticed. I'll go back and check it out. I guess at least at home, I could flip-flop the left and right speakers to make it sound right. :lol
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I thought Condition human was more consistent than The Verdict. But there are some great songs on both. :tup
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It looks like Scott Rock has surfaced and updated his facebook cover and profile photos a few days ago. And it looks like he got some ink, including snake-looking neck tattoo. :o
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It looks like Scott Rock has surfaced and updated his facebook cover and profile photos a few days ago. And it looks like he got some ink, including snake-looking neck tattoo. :o
Unless I’m on the wrong page, his Facebook hasn’t been update since 2013.
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It looks like Scott Rock has surfaced and updated his facebook cover and profile photos a few days ago. And it looks like he got some ink, including snake-looking neck tattoo. :o
Unless I’m on the wrong page, his Facebook hasn’t been update since 2013.
You might be on the wrong page. Just checked myself, and he posted a super dark photo of himself on July 7th with said tattoos showing.
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It would be nice if Scott made a statement of some kind, whether it’s a short one or not, about him leaving QR. But I totally understand and respect if he chooses not to; it really is a private matter. But regardless nice to see him back.
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It looks like Scott Rock has surfaced and updated his facebook cover and profile photos a few days ago. And it looks like he got some ink, including snake-looking neck tattoo. :o
Unless I’m on the wrong page, his Facebook hasn’t been update since 2013.
You might be on the wrong page. Just checked myself, and he posted a super dark photo of himself on July 7th with said tattoos showing.
Weird, I can’t find his page while on Facebook, but if I google it it comes up.
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For all of you Queensryche fans out there, a new #HeavyMetal guide called Rusted Metal has a huge spread on the band, including a new interview with Kim Harris, QR's first manager. Check out my review here:
www.anybodylistening.net/rustedmetal.html
If you like what you read, there's a link to pre-order at the end of the article.
Thanks to James R. Beach and Brian Naron for the advance copy and for their time. Damn good stuff on a ton of bands here, Queensryche, Fifth Angel, Sanctuary, Nevermore, Alice in Chains, everyone you can think of. Amazing work.
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Checked your link Brian.
While I wouldn't be interested in the book as a whole, I would love to hear Dianna and Kim Harris have to say about those early days.
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Checked your link Brian.
By that, I think Timmy means the link at the end of the review - got a strange message when I clicked the link.
Honestly, the only things that would probably be of interest to me would be the stories about QR, Myth (assuming they're in there) and maybe Heart, Metal Church, AIC and Soundgarden. Is Myth talked about in there as separate from QR, or just as part of the QR story?
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Checked your link Brian.
By that, I think Timmy means the link at the end of the review - got a strange message when I clicked the link.
Honestly, the only things that would probably be of interest to me would be the stories about QR, Myth (assuming they're in there) and maybe Heart, Metal Church, AIC and Soundgarden. Is Myth talked about in there as separate from QR, or just as part of the QR story?
Link WAS good, but yep, unfortunate timing, as apparently something went wonky with the site some time between when I posted it here and when you and Tim first checked it out. I've let them know to fix it.
Yes, MYTH is talked about separately. The book is about the scene and the bands from it, not about Queensryche (but since my site covers Queensryche, 95 percent of the content of the site looks at the QR angle of things first before moving on to the rest. So yes, literally every hard rock and metal band that was from Seattle was profiled in the book. It's pretty crazy. A big labor of love from the authors.
Hopefully they can fix the site soon (such unfortunate timing) so folks can take a look at what formats they are offering. I know the paperback edition is 34.95. That's the one I ordered. But it's 900+ pages and oversized (it's not like a paperback novel), so for me, with my love of Northwest Metal, it is absolutely worth it.
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NO, I meant I checked BRIAN'S link and blog. NOT the book link... :lol
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NO, I meant I checked BRIAN'S link and blog. NOT the book link... :lol
Thanks for reading it Tim. But I'm glad Scott said something about the book link. That really sucks for the guys who wrote it. Hopefully they get it fixed soon (it's still broken).
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Link works for me
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NO, I meant I checked BRIAN'S link and blog. NOT the book link... :lol
Thanks for reading it Tim. But I'm glad Scott said something about the book link. That really sucks for the guys who wrote it. Hopefully they get it fixed soon (it's still broken).
Man, God bless you, Samsara. I still routinely visit anybodylistening.net (and have for years and years) and sincerely appreciate the thoughts and observations you post there.
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Thanks man! That's really nice of you to say. Appreciate it! :metal
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The Rusted Metal link has been fixed. Apparenrky the host chsnges a few thimgs and the ssl certiricate (guessing thsts the securiry) needed to be upgraded. Eirher way, for those interested in the book, its safe to click on the link in my article.
Thanks for letting me know, Scotty. The authors appreciated it.
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The Rusted Metal link has been fixed. Apparenrky the host chsnges a few thimgs and the ssl certiricate (guessing thsts the securiry) needed to be upgraded. Eirher way, for those interested in the book, its safe to click on the link in my article.
Thanks for letting me know, Scotty. The authors appreciated it.
Turned your spellcheck off I see. 😉
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He downloaded the Kingshmegland app.
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That looks more like a seizure, not being me. :lol
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Turned your spellcheck off I see. 😉
He downloaded the Kingshmegland app.
That looks more like a seizure, not being me. :lol
That's what I get typing from my phone. :lol
Have a good weekend everyone!
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QUEENSRźCHE SINGER TODD LA TORRE TO RELEASE DEBUT SOLO ALBUM ‘REJOICE IN THE SUFFERING’
https://lotsofmuzik.com/todd-la-torre-to-release-solo-album-rejoice-in-the-suffering/
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Took a leap of faith and ordered TLT's solo cd. I have liked a lot what he has done with Queensryche. Let's see how it goes.
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Seems like Jason Slater died from liver failure
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-third-eye-blind-bassist-and-queensryche-producer-jason-slater-dead-at-49/
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Seems like Jason Slater died from liver failure
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-third-eye-blind-bassist-and-queensryche-producer-jason-slater-dead-at-49/
Oh wow, that's awful.
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Wow! That is awful.
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Jesus, so young. I feel for his daughter so much. My dad died suddenly at 55, you don't expect them to go even when they're in the hospital and it looks serious, you just figure they'll make it and then receive a nasty shock.
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Seems like Jason Slater died from liver failure
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/former-third-eye-blind-bassist-and-queensryche-producer-jason-slater-dead-at-49/
This is sad news :'(
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Jason was one of my closest friends. The phrases "brother" and "family" are often overused, but they aren't in this case. He called my family his family, and I was, as far as he was concerned, a blood relative. He would do anything for me, and I would do the same. This isn't unexpected, given how sick he was a few years back. He overcame it, but his body took a hit that few people recover from. He did. Somehow. But everything about his life was shattered back then. He took the hits, kept getting up.
In recent years he changed a bit. It was all about reconnecting with people. He knew he was on borrowed time and said that often to me. We talked like we always did on the phone. It was more frequent. Back in the Queensryche days, we'd have three-hour conversations every other month with studio hangs a couple times a year. Now it was more like 30-minute chats every other week. We made it a point to get together once a year, no matter where he was (LA, Bay Area, etc.) as a family. When he was very sick, we met him in LA and it went unspoken that he thought he had weeks to live. You could see it. The treatments he was going through, the lifestyle he was being forced to live because of finances, etc. But once he recovered and moved back up to the Bay, he was all about love. For everyone. He did work in music, uncredited, not paid, just to help friends and enjoy it. He picked strawberries at one point. He didn't care. He just wanted to enjoy the time he had.
He tried moving to North Carolina and drove cross-country (oh the stories about that one - lol). He made stops in Arizona, all over the place, and then came right back to Palo Alto. During COVID, he started cooking for elderly neighbors, leaving full meals on their doorsteps. Not once, but weekly, for five, six sets of neighbors. Whenever he could. He lived simply, frugally. He didn't have anything really left except himself. He just kept getting up every morning and enjoyed each day.
Jason was FAR from perfect. Not saying he was this Zen Master or anything. He had his demons which got him in trouble. And he did over these past few years for sure. But again, he knew he was on borrowed time. Because of COVID, we didn't have our annual dinner this year. It's a huge regret, but nothing was open at the time.
He called me in August I think it was, maybe September, saying he had a big decision to make. The place he was staying in Palo Alto was not going to be an option soon. He could go to Hawaii, live rent free and work for a friend (non-music), or he could go back to LA and see what that brought. Seeing the latter as an unstable option, I begrudgingly admitted that if those were his only options, living in paradise wasn't a bad deal. Even though it meant not seeing him too often. A couple of days later he texted and said he was doing it and was going to try and see everyone he could.
We had just bought a new house and moved, my daughter had started school (back in school full time), it wasn't going to happen in the short timeframe he wanted it to. I wish we would have done it anyway. Those last weeks on the mainland, he helped organize a charity raising money for cancer research. He called everyone in his book. Many chose not to take part. Rudy Sarzo did, and I was on the Zoom call that he appeared on, answering questions for people and chatting. Slater wanted no credit. He said he just wanted to do what he could.
We talked briefly, for 27 minutes, 27 seconds on September 23. Right before he left for Hawaii. I think he knew he was sick. It was a quick call on a Wednesday morning. I don't even remember what we talked about honestly. Probably the charity a little bit. But knowing how long our chats could go (27 minutes may have been the shortest real conversation we ever had - lol), and I was working, I sort of cut him off and told him to be safe and I'd talk to him soon and that I loved him. "Love you too brother" was his reply, and that was it. You could tell he wanted to say more. I feel bad I cut him off (but again, if you knew the man, you sort of had to - lol).
I never spoke to him again.
You may think that odd, but remember, while odd for most, there were stretches of time that he disappeared. Months even. I didn't think much of it, knowing he got to Hawaii, after seeing a photo on Facebook. I honestly figured about mid-October, he was just enjoying life and I'd talk to him over the holidays. A couple more weeks went by, and I thought it odd he didn't call around my daughter's birthday. My wife and I laughed it off, nervously, even though we had a weird feeling something bad was going on. I figured he was probably doing a bit too much partying.
Little did I know he was hiding being sick. His daughter, the light of his life, didn't even know apparently until some point in November. My guess it was late November when she found out. I reached out via text on Thanksgiving. I got back a response that was gibberish. I replied "What?" and got more gibberish. I should have called. I should have reached out to his daughter, and thought about it, and didn't. Apparently, he had been admitted to hospice and wasn't really coherent. But I had no idea, and figured (because he'd done it before) lost his phone and some moron in Hawaii was messing with it. It didn't feel right, particularly since he was off social media and didn't respond to those messages either, but there wasn't anything I could do. I would have called, but I honestly thought his phone had been stolen.
I was going to try again this week, and then found out from his daughter early yesterday. He passed peacefully from liver failure (as the vultures from TMZ reported).
I'm gutted, but thankfully, we said everything to each other and there was unconditional love between us and Slater. I wish I would have called, but given he hid what was going on, maybe he preferred us to remember his smiling face and wit, as opposed to the sadness. Either way, my wife, daughter and I lost a big part of our lives yesterday. GREAT memories. I will always remember that laugh and his smile. He was particularly proud of his new teeth (a dentist friend of him set him up with new teeth after his ultimately had to be replaced). Ha ha ha.
Thanks for reading if you still are. I haven't opened up much. I always write when things like this happen. I just couldn't yesterday. I want to blog about his music stories and all the memories and all that...and I will, in time. But I just miss my brother. I'm happy he's pain free, and I'm thankful our paths crossed in life. Biggest heart I've ever seen. He gave his everything to everyone, all of the time. Rest peacefully, J...
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Thank you for sharing Brian. That was very moving to read, and I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.
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I’m sorry Brian
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I am sorry for your loss, Brian.
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That was a gripping read truthfully Brian. I too am sorry for your loss.
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Brian, I've read a lot your very interesting writings about QR and I had no idea that you were so close to Jason. Really sad for your loss. Personally, I liked many of the things Jason composed for the band and Geoff.
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I have only ever seen Jason in YT interviews but he always came across as a real down to Earth , lovely guy.
Sorry for your loss Brian,.
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Sorry to hear that, Samsara. My condolences.
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Wow... that was a heart wrenching, but captivating post. I know we don’t interact much here, but my thoughts are with you and your family during this time.
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Sorry about your loss Samsara.
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So sorry for your loss, Brian. I remember when Jason used to post on Breakdownroom, and he seemed like a good guy.
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Great post, really moving. Sorry for your loss.
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I'm so sorry for your loss, Brian.
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Brian, I knew you were friends with Jason but I didn't know how close you were. My condolences to you and to Jasons family.
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Like I said elsewhere, I enjoyed when he would come onto your forum and dump a whole bunch of information about the albums he worked on and his experiences with the band. At times, some of the posts were a bit slanted, based on which members he may have been working with at the time, but I've never seen anyone else in the music industry share that much behind the scenes info. It was a fascinating look at the inner workings of the band, and knowing now that he pretty much did it not for the money, but to really try and get the best music he could out of them at that time in their career is cool to know.
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How about a little Chris DeGarmo to bring our spirits up....
https://youtu.be/fAqS_c56TLE
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How about the new single by TLT from his solo album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6BU39L2N9I&feature=emb_logo
:metal
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How about the new single by TLT from his solo album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6BU39L2N9I&feature=emb_logo
:metal
Eh, not my cup of tea.
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Definitely heavy. Has a metal church vibe to it
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Brian, sorry to hear about Jason. I knew you guys were friends but had no idea that you were as tight as you were.
Definitely heavy. Has a metal church vibe to it
Good call. At first I was thinking the vocals during the verses reminded me a bit of Judas Priest, but definitely closer to Metal Church. Honestly it's much better than I was expecting it to be. With talk about him including Cookie Monster vocals, I wasn't even gonna give it a chance, but aside from a brief appearance as backing vocals, they're non-existent. If that's the case for most of the album, there's a good chance I'll pick it up.
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How about the new single by TLT from his solo album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6BU39L2N9I&feature=emb_logo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6BU39L2N9I&feature=emb_logo)
:metal
Sounds a lot like Evermore to me - not sure what I think about that song. Some great guitar work, not fond of the vocals through the first ~2 minutes, after that it gets better.
Think I'll probably stream this before I decide about buying it.
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Wow, way better than I expected.
What is the lineup on the album?
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I was expecting the TLT to be over the top heavy based on what I had read , but it actually sounds right up my alley :metal Having said that I think this safe single might be quite different to a lot of the rest.
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Wow, way better than I expected.
What is the lineup on the album?
Toontrack EZ Drummer
Toontrack Metal Machine EZX
Toontrack EZ Bass
Toontrack EZ Mix
;D
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:lol
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Wow, way better than I expected.
What is the lineup on the album?
Todd on drums and vocals.
Craig Blackwell on guitar (and I'm assuming bass too).
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Wow, way better than I expected.
What is the lineup on the album?
Toontrack EZ Drummer
Toontrack Metal Machine EZX
Toontrack EZ Bass
Toontrack EZ Mix
;D
Out of the park. Out of the goddamn park :lol
Also, Samsara, was so sorry to read of your loss yesterday.
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That is pretty great. Never really heard his vocals outside of Queensryche. And damn, he has those great vocals I love from this style, that high gritty tone, and he also has that warm sound too. Nice blend, and will keep an eye out for more songs.
Queensryche should really utilize him more, I really think they need this revitalization because I do not enjoy the new stuff as much. It would be a great progression if they do, because The Verdict is still not that bad of an album.
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How about the new single by TLT from his solo album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6BU39L2N9I&feature=emb_logo
:metal
Woah! This blisters! The guitarist has some nice chops too. Looking forward to this one for sure now.
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This is even better, I've already pre-ordered the CD and vinyl.
https://youtu.be/Q-y5yJR4MjQ
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Sounds very good. I'm looking forward to it.
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I have something to share with my fellow Queensryche fans on here. The pandemic didn't necessarily leave a lot of free time on my hands, but enough to take part in this project I am co-authoring with two friends of mine.
:)
NEWS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Dec. 30, 2020
Contact: NW Metalworx Music, LLC.
nwmetalworxmusic@gmail.com
NW Metalworx Music to Publish First Queensr˙che Biography
TACOMA, WASHINGTON — For almost 40 years, Queensr˙che has been hailed as one of the forefathers of American progressive hard rock and metal music. But the band’s complete story has never been told—until now. NW Metalworx Music is proud to announce it will publish the first-ever Queensr˙che biography in late 2021, as part of the NW Metalworx book line.
Written by James R. Beach, with Brian L. Naron and Brian J. Heaton, Building An Empire: The Story Of Queensr˙che, takes a deep dive on Queensr˙che, from its original members’ musical beginnings in the high schools of suburban Seattle, to the group’s rise to stardom in the 1990s. The book will cover how Queensr˙che evolved from album to album, the various events that led to the band’s fracture and declining popularity, and the amazing heavy metal revival period Queensr˙che has enjoyed over the last several years.
Paul Suter, the acclaimed writer from Kerrang! who broke Queensr˙che’s story in early 1983, will write the tome’s Foreword. Heaton, the founder of AnybodyListening.net, a historical retrospective on Queensr˙che’s original lineup, penned the Afterword.
Beach and Naron are fresh off publishing Rusted Metal, their mammoth 900-plus page guide to hard rock and heavy metal bands from 1970-1995 in the Pacific Northwest. Heaton joins the duo for the foray into Queensr˙che’s past, serving as one of the band’s unofficial historians over the past quarter-century.
“We were looking for the next book to write and were shocked to discover no one had told Queensr˙che’s story,” said Beach. “For us, it was a no-brainer to tackle their rich history, especially off the work we did researching the band for Rusted Metal.”
“As we finished Rusted Metal, James and I realized we had so much more to say about Queensr˙che,” added Naron. “I've been a fan since 1982, and ebbed and flowed with the band. But after revisiting each Queensr˙che record and tour cycle for the book, I've fallen in love with the band all over again. Queensr˙che has always been a secretive band, and it has been fun talking to people who have helped unlock their past."
“The thing the three of us agreed on, was that Queensr˙che’s story is one of perseverance,” Heaton said. “The band’s music and personal history is rooted in change and overcoming obstacles, and that makes it a compelling story to write, and we hope, for everyone to read.”
Building An Empire: The Story Of Queensr˙che is an unauthorized account, featuring interviews with the band members themselves, and various associated people from Queensr˙che’s almost 40-year history—including managers, producers, crew members, family, friends and peers. The book weaves existing interviews from the band’s career with new ones, resulting in an all-encompassing, objective look at Queensr˙che’s career.
The book is slated for a fall 2021/winter 2022 release on NW Metalworx Music’s website, nwmetalworxmusic.com, Amazon.com, and other retailers.
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Sam! :metal :metal :metal
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I'm only a casual fan of QR but I will pick this up. One of my favorite threads on DTF was the queensryche discog thread so I would thoroughly enjoy reading a more fleshed out bio.
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:metal :metal :metal :metal
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https://bravewords.com/news/queensryche-biography-due-in-late-2021
:metal :metal :metal
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https://bravewords.com/news/queensryche-biography-due-in-late-2021
:metal :metal :metal
:metal :metal :metal :metal
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Now that should be an interesting read.
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Oh I can't wait to read this! :metal Congrats on the big news, Samsara!
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meh, I'd rather have new music
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Awesome Samsara!
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Hard pass,,, sadly those guys aint all that interesting other than the drama of the break up. That drama is better than the music post Chris. IMO
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Thanks for the nice words everyone.
For those on the fence, hopefully we'll change your mind in the coming months. Happy New Year!
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Todd is back with another heavy song:
https://youtu.be/G4KZuLxtv74
Reminds me a bit of Halford's self titled debut album.
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Yeah sounds like Crucible
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Building An Empire: The Story Of Queensr˙che is an unauthorized account, featuring interviews with the band members themselves...
Question from an individual ignorant on the subject.... what would it take for this bio (or any bio, for that matter) to be considered "authorized?" Does Queensryche Inc, or whatever the corporate entity of Queensryche is, have to submit in writing "Yes, we authorize this biography"?
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Glad to see I'm not the only person who immediately thought of Resurrection/Crucible era Halford with this one.
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Yikes that’s a heavy song
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Reminds me of Overkill. He's channeling that Blitz screech.
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That style of singing is admittedly not normally my thing, but his singing in that almost sounds cartoon-ish. Can I have those three minutes back? :lol :biggrin:
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I’m going to take a wild guess and say that this is the sound that Todd would like Queensryche to have, or something similar. But Michael said not a chance.
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That style of singing is admittedly not normally my thing, but his singing in that almost sounds cartoon-ish. Can I have those three minutes back? :lol :biggrin:
I thought the song was really repetitive. But, that's just me.
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Unfortunately that was a big "meh" for me. Doesn't showcase his vocal ability. Repetitive and derivative of every thrash song ever. Also, totally forgettable solo. If you love thrash though, you'll enjoy it.
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I don't really hear the Halford solo thing in this. I'm more with Ben and hear more Overkill maybe some Metal Church too. Nevertheless, I like it. Shaping up to be a nice album.
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Unfortunately that was a big "meh" for me. Doesn't showcase his vocal ability. Repetitive and derivative of every thrash song ever. Also, totally forgettable solo. If you love thrash though, you'll enjoy it.
Discerning thrash fans certainly don’t enjoy everything put under that label. Far from it. That’s like saying “if you like pop you’ll like this” no matter how bad it is.
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Building An Empire: The Story Of Queensr˙che is an unauthorized account, featuring interviews with the band members themselves...
Question from an individual ignorant on the subject.... what would it take for this bio (or any bio, for that matter) to be considered "authorized?" Does Queensryche Inc, or whatever the corporate entity of Queensryche is, have to submit in writing "Yes, we authorize this biography"?
Something like that. It usually is a little more detailed. When you do an authorized account, the current members do exclusive interviews specifically for the book, they and their management can negotiate changes to the book (more red tape). We've reached out to the band about that, and about doing some interviews and haven't heard back yet. That doesn't mean we won't hear something between now and when we finalize the book. To be frank, it really doesn't matter to us, either way. In some way, it's better with Queensryche to have a book that isn't "authorized," because they've generally been very tight-lipped about their affairs over the years. Unauthorized bios may not have the band's "stamp of approval," but they are often more revealing and in-depth, which we believe our book is. And honestly, we don't really need "new interviews" with any of them to write it. There's more than enough historic material.
James, Brian Naron and I really put a focus on telling the story, presenting the facts, and let the reader decide some things. We discuss everything, but like any good bio, we don't tell you what the truth is -- you can read and determine what you believe. Some things look rosy, some don't. But we've tried to present the story as completely as possible, and keep a positive light on the band as much as we could. Some negativity is unavoidable -- not everyone comes off squeaky clean. But we focused on being very objective, putting the facts out there, and writing to a theme about perseverance, which is the one word that came up between the three of us when describing Queensryche over their 40-year career.
We've got some really cool (and surprising) exclusive interviews for the book from friends, family members and people who have worked with QR, along with a mountain of material from interviews the guys have done over the years. If you've read the Van Halen: Rising book, by Greg Renoff -- https://www.amazon.com/Van-Halen-Rising-Southern-California/dp/1770412638/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3CCVZUS9UKLXA&dchild=1&keywords=van+halen+rising+book -- that's basically the model we used for writing the Queensryche book. With our own twists, of course.
Once we hit a couple of other milestones for the book -- pre-orders, some social media stuff, finalizing the cover, etc., etc., I'll update the thread here. Appreciate everyone's interest. Thanks!
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Unfortunately that was a big "meh" for me. Doesn't showcase his vocal ability. Repetitive and derivative of every thrash song ever. Also, totally forgettable solo. If you love thrash though, you'll enjoy it.
Discerning thrash fans certainly don’t enjoy everything put under that label. Far from it. That’s like saying “if you like pop you’ll like this” no matter how bad it is.
It wasn't intended as a dis. Sorry if it came across that way. I should have said, 'if you like thrash, you'll probably like This. Better?
-
I have something to share with my fellow Queensryche fans on here. The pandemic didn't necessarily leave a lot of free time on my hands, but enough to take part in this project I am co-authoring with two friends of mine.
:)
NEWS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Dec. 30, 2020
Contact: NW Metalworx Music, LLC.
nwmetalworxmusic@gmail.com
NW Metalworx Music to Publish First Queensr˙che Biography
TACOMA, WASHINGTON — For almost 40 years, Queensr˙che has been hailed as one of the forefathers of American progressive hard rock and metal music. But the band’s complete story has never been told—until now. NW Metalworx Music is proud to announce it will publish the first-ever Queensr˙che biography in late 2021, as part of the NW Metalworx book line.
Written by James R. Beach, with Brian L. Naron and Brian J. Heaton, Building An Empire: The Story Of Queensr˙che, takes a deep dive on Queensr˙che, from its original members’ musical beginnings in the high schools of suburban Seattle, to the group’s rise to stardom in the 1990s. The book will cover how Queensr˙che evolved from album to album, the various events that led to the band’s fracture and declining popularity, and the amazing heavy metal revival period Queensr˙che has enjoyed over the last several years.
Paul Suter, the acclaimed writer from Kerrang! who broke Queensr˙che’s story in early 1983, will write the tome’s Foreword. Heaton, the founder of AnybodyListening.net, a historical retrospective on Queensr˙che’s original lineup, penned the Afterword.
Beach and Naron are fresh off publishing Rusted Metal, their mammoth 900-plus page guide to hard rock and heavy metal bands from 1970-1995 in the Pacific Northwest. Heaton joins the duo for the foray into Queensr˙che’s past, serving as one of the band’s unofficial historians over the past quarter-century.
“We were looking for the next book to write and were shocked to discover no one had told Queensr˙che’s story,” said Beach. “For us, it was a no-brainer to tackle their rich history, especially off the work we did researching the band for Rusted Metal.”
“As we finished Rusted Metal, James and I realized we had so much more to say about Queensr˙che,” added Naron. “I've been a fan since 1982, and ebbed and flowed with the band. But after revisiting each Queensr˙che record and tour cycle for the book, I've fallen in love with the band all over again. Queensr˙che has always been a secretive band, and it has been fun talking to people who have helped unlock their past."
“The thing the three of us agreed on, was that Queensr˙che’s story is one of perseverance,” Heaton said. “The band’s music and personal history is rooted in change and overcoming obstacles, and that makes it a compelling story to write, and we hope, for everyone to read.”
Building An Empire: The Story Of Queensr˙che is an unauthorized account, featuring interviews with the band members themselves, and various associated people from Queensr˙che’s almost 40-year history—including managers, producers, crew members, family, friends and peers. The book weaves existing interviews from the band’s career with new ones, resulting in an all-encompassing, objective look at Queensr˙che’s career.
The book is slated for a fall 2021/winter 2022 release on NW Metalworx Music’s website, nwmetalworxmusic.com, Amazon.com, and other retailers.
I'm a little late to the party on this, but count me in as a first-day buyer!
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La Torre just retweeted Zeuss...
“And so it begins..#R˙che#4”
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I’m going to take a wild guess and say that this is the sound that Todd would like Queensryche to have, or something similar. But Michael said not a chance.
I thought Michael was the metal guy?
I don't really hear the Halford solo thing in this. I'm more with Ben and hear more Overkill maybe some Metal Church too. Nevertheless, I like it. Shaping up to be a nice album.
I hear Flotsam & Jetsam big time in this.
I am on this album. When does it come out?
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I’m going to take a wild guess and say that this is the sound that Todd would like Queensryche to have, or something similar. But Michael said not a chance.
I thought Michael was the metal guy?
I don't really hear the Halford solo thing in this. I'm more with Ben and hear more Overkill maybe some Metal Church too. Nevertheless, I like it. Shaping up to be a nice album.
I hear Flotsam & Jetsam big time in this.
I am on this album. When does it come out?
Yeah Michael is the metal guy but I think this sound and heaviness is just a few notches above from what Michael would be comfortable having Queensryche sound like.
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I’m going to take a wild guess and say that this is the sound that Todd would like Queensryche to have, or something similar. But Michael said not a chance.
I thought Michael was the metal guy?
I don't really hear the Halford solo thing in this. I'm more with Ben and hear more Overkill maybe some Metal Church too. Nevertheless, I like it. Shaping up to be a nice album.
I hear Flotsam & Jetsam big time in this.
I am on this album. When does it come out?
Yeah Michael is the metal guy but I think this sound and heaviness is just a few notches above from what Michael would be comfortable having Queensryche sound like.
Interesting. Yeah Michael was the one I believe that was never happy the direction the band was going back in the day. It is intriguing the heaviness behind Todd's direction here. Maybe Crimson Glory had an effect on him.
The album is out Feb 5th.
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the band QR without Geoff Chris and Scott is simply BAD, they cant write a poem in reality, Im sure whoever or whatever is on Todds CD is far better sadly and im no fan of Todd I find his voice unpleasant to my ears sadly but Im sure for those who like him this is far better than any QR project
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I thought he sounded fantastic on the last two QR albums
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I thought he sounded fantastic on the last two QR albums
He did.
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Yeah sounds like Crucible
somewhere between Crucible and Fight at times IMO, I LOVE ROB HALFORD but this is not for me, IDK its just not moving me , but for younger kids its nice hes doing that old school sound and song structure today for them to discover
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Yeah sounds like Crucible
somewhere between Crucible and Fight at times IMO, I LOVE ROB HALFORD but this is not for me, IDK its just not moving me , but for younger kids its nice hes doing that old school sound and song structure today for them to discover
Yeah I thought Fight might more than Halford too with that song.
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Unfortunately that was a big "meh" for me. Doesn't showcase his vocal ability. Repetitive and derivative of every thrash song ever. Also, totally forgettable solo. If you love thrash though, you'll enjoy it.
agreed feels generic IDK
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Scott Rock just posted this on Facebook:
wanna hear a fun story? goes like this :
”Contrary to any statements or interviews coming from other parties, I most definitely 'did not' and 'have not' quit, walked away, retired or abandoned Queensryche??!! ….unfortunately, you have not been given the facts by any means…”
a total cliffhanger right? ….
more soon
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Scott Rock just posted this on Facebook:
wanna hear a fun story? goes like this :
”Contrary to any statements or interviews coming from other parties, I most definitely 'did not' and 'have not' quit, walked away, retired or abandoned Queensryche??!! ….unfortunately, you have not been given the facts by any means…”
a total cliffhanger right? ….
more soon
Wow, more drama on the way...
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Scott Rock just posted this on Facebook:
wanna hear a fun story? goes like this :
”Contrary to any statements or interviews coming from other parties, I most definitely 'did not' and 'have not' quit, walked away, retired or abandoned Queensryche??!! ….unfortunately, you have not been given the facts by any means…”
a total cliffhanger right? ….
more soon
What’s the point of Scott posting this? Either come out and tell us what happened or don’t. Why keep stirring the pot?
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Scott Rock just posted this on Facebook:
wanna hear a fun story? goes like this :
”Contrary to any statements or interviews coming from other parties, I most definitely 'did not' and 'have not' quit, walked away, retired or abandoned Queensryche??!! ….unfortunately, you have not been given the facts by any means…”
a total cliffhanger right? ….
more soon
Scott is one hot mess lately. He cant seem to just speak clearly, WTF. the whole mess on his "status" is due to HIM!! and who cares anymore QR is done as a relevant band.
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Scott Rock just posted this on Facebook:
wanna hear a fun story? goes like this :
”Contrary to any statements or interviews coming from other parties, I most definitely 'did not' and 'have not' quit, walked away, retired or abandoned Queensryche??!! ….unfortunately, you have not been given the facts by any means…”
a total cliffhanger right? ….
more soon
I guess he still has his stock in QR LLC, man the drama is so much better than the music , they should stop doing music and just do a reality show , theyd make more money also LOL
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It’s been a few years. At this point don’t say anything and if asked just say no comment or it’s nobodies business. But if you decide you want to give your side of the story, send out a detailed release. But this is just unnecessary stirring the pot.
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Brian might have to hold the presses on his book
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Man, the music industry be having a lot of drama lately. :corn :corn :corn :metal
-
I have something to share with my fellow Queensryche fans on here. The pandemic didn't necessarily leave a lot of free time on my hands, but enough to take part in this project I am co-authoring with two friends of mine.
:)
NEWS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Dec. 30, 2020
Contact: NW Metalworx Music, LLC.
nwmetalworxmusic@gmail.com
NW Metalworx Music to Publish First Queensr˙che Biography
*snip*
I'm a little late to the party on this, but count me in as a first-day buyer!
Ditto. <obligatory 'shut up and take my money.gif'>
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Scott is one hot mess lately. He cant seem to just speak clearly, WTF. the whole mess on his "status" is due to HIM!!
Sounds like you know more than the rest of us. Care to fill us in on what you know?
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If something fishy was going on why wait 4 years to say anything. I mean it could be a weird situation but they've done several tours and a full album without him and how he has that odd pot stirring post. I just don't get it.
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Scott is one hot mess lately. He cant seem to just speak clearly, WTF. the whole mess on his "status" is due to HIM!!
Sounds like you know more than the rest of us. Care to fill us in on what you know?
: ) No.. but we all know hes had a rough ride personally since the split. the divorce and the new baby etc .. I think Scott didnt enjoy being the "leader" and the having the responsibility. I think it was a rough patch for him IMO all around and he likes his side projects etc,,, and then he chose to go silent as we all waited, I have no issue with any of it actually and wish Scott the best always.
Back to the topic : )
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Scott is one hot mess lately. He cant seem to just speak clearly, WTF. the whole mess on his "status" is due to HIM!!
Sounds like you know more than the rest of us. Care to fill us in on what you know?
: ) No.. but we all know hes had a rough ride personally since the split. the divorce and the new baby etc
Beyond the divorce and new baby, what else has been established as fact, though? There have been rumors that he had a downward spiral into drugs, which may or may not have been mentioned by Tater - can't remember - but what has been proven? I remember Scott posted a super dark photo of himself in his FB profile a year or so ago with a neck tattoo, IIRC. But other than that, there hasn't been much that's based on solid evidence, or am I forgetting something?
In any case, with regards to Scott's recent post, I can't help but think we've already been down this road once before. At least one year ago, either he or Eddie Trunk announced that he was gonna be on Eddie’s show and clear everything up...which never happened. And now this. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if some kinda underhanded business crap has been going on (and by this, I am saying Scott could be at least somewhat responsible, too), and because Scott can’t get resolution with the rest of the band in a way he wants, now he’s making noise to draw attention and force the band to address whatever issue it is, or else he’s gonna go public and air their dirty laundry. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what happened to the supposed Eddie Trunk appearance, and I’ll bet the same thing happens here, and Scott will never reveal anything.
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Scott is one hot mess lately. He cant seem to just speak clearly, WTF. the whole mess on his "status" is due to HIM!!
Sounds like you know more than the rest of us. Care to fill us in on what you know?
: ) No.. but we all know hes had a rough ride personally since the split. the divorce and the new baby etc
Beyond the divorce and new baby, what else has been established as fact, though? There have been rumors that he had a downward spiral into drugs, which may or may not have been mentioned by Tater - can't remember - but what has been proven? I remember Scott posted a super dark photo of himself in his FB profile a year or so ago with a neck tattoo, IIRC. But other than that, there hasn't been much that's based on solid evidence, or am I forgetting something?
In any case, with regards to Scott's recent post, I can't help but think we've already been down this road once before. At least one year ago, either he or Eddie Trunk announced that he was gonna be on Eddie’s show and clear everything up...which never happened. And now this. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if some kinda underhanded business crap has been going on (and by this, I am saying Scott could be at least somewhat responsible, too), and because Scott can’t get resolution with the rest of the band in a way he wants, now he’s making noise to draw attention and force the band to address whatever issue it is, or else he’s gonna go public and air their dirty laundry. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what happened to the supposed Eddie Trunk appearance, and I’ll bet the same thing happens here, and Scott will never reveal anything.
I agree with your post,.. I dont think Scott will follow up with anything either, I think his words were more about QR going back into the studio and him not being part of it, I think its more legal squawking on who will be on the CD and touring contracts, and how he will get paid as a stock owner or be bought out. Id also bet the terms of his divorce, alimony etc comes into play. its always about the money as its a business
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This might have just been a drunken FB post out of spite that will have zero follow up
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I don't have any inside info on QR but maybe the band wanted to buyout Scott so Casey can go in as a full time member. 4 years of not contributing anything is nice for Scott but it has to suck (financially) for QR.
I know in the firm that I work with, they bought out an ex-owner but the payouts to that former owner lasted 2 years.
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This is just silly! If you read anything from MW or TLT, they never say he was kicked out. He simply stopped communicating. Wilton has gone on record as saying that "the door is alway open" if Scott wanted to come back. They've presented a pretty solid story from their side how they held out as long as they could for him to come back. And, when he didn't, they moved on. Once again, never saying he was fired or kicked out. As for Eddie Trunk, ET has said that people often commit to appearing without thinking things through (or speaking with their lawyers) and these appearances never materialize. That's probably the case here, especially if the main issue is financial.
Like everyone here has already said, if you're not going to tell your side of the story, just keep your mouth shut!
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Couldn't care less about what Scott may have to say. For some reason or another he wasn't there when the TLT-Queensryche put out their best record to date.
So this is much more interesting imo:
La Torre just retweeted Zeuss...
“And so it begins..#R˙che#4”
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I don't have any inside info on QR but maybe the band wanted to buyout Scott so Casey can go in as a full time member. 4 years of not contributing anything is nice for Scott but it has to suck (financially) for QR.
Well quite. I would imagine there's clauses in the band agreements regarding their shareholdings that does require them to actually contribute, not just sit on their arse drawing down their dividend at the end of the year.
IIRC there was at least one band where a member was unable to fulfill their duties and they basically deducted what was required to be paid for a touring musician from that member's dividend, so maybe QR's management have ended up doing something similar... at least after a while when it became clear Scott just wasn't going to contribute.
Anyway, all speculation on my part (and I'm really not sure I do remember correctly wrt hat last paragraph) so who knows. I'd much rather Rockenfield drumming than TLT and Casey Grillo but if it's what they need to do to keep functioning then so be it. I still think Wilton/Jackson have a few more great tunes in them that I want to hear.
If he has something to say, just say it and stop acting like a teenager vaguebooking for the attention.
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Composing new album with Casey on drums:👍
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/new-queensryche-drummer-casey-grillo-is-involved-in-songwriting-for-next-album/?fbclid=IwAR2qhTGOjTGsKx02WbRGi8MbdtSMOuEZ5m4s3mHBx2dDfvjzjOIZ9DQbXAU
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Composing new album with Casey on drums:👍
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/new-queensryche-drummer-casey-grillo-is-involved-in-songwriting-for-next-album/?fbclid=IwAR2qhTGOjTGsKx02WbRGi8MbdtSMOuEZ5m4s3mHBx2dDfvjzjOIZ9DQbXAU
Ooh, that's good news! Casey's a great drummer in his own right, there's no reason not to include him in the writing process moving forward.
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All I know is that Id rather be Geoff with full ownership of OMCI and OMC !! in this crazy political climate and selling of his stock at its near peak, OMC has never been more relevant and that was by far the crown jewel of QR as a concept band and band period. IMO QR is long gone and what I call Toddsryche is different band , like Lynch Mob vs Don Dokken ... thats simply MY OPINION.
I really hope Scott is doing fine, and is healthy
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A new Sweet Oblivion album (but, not surpisingly, without Mularoni):
https://www.frontiers.shop/detail/index/sArticle/1146
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A new Sweet Oblivion album (but, not surpisingly, without Mularoni):
https://www.frontiers.shop/detail/index/sArticle/1146
HIT ME, I'M READY!!! I spoke with Alessandro Del Vecchio and asked if it would follow the same path as the first one, and he said this one is even more Queensryche-y.
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A new Sweet Oblivion album (but, not surpisingly, without Mularoni):
https://www.frontiers.shop/detail/index/sArticle/1146
HIT ME, I'M READY!!! I spoke with Alessandro Del Vecchio and asked if it would follow the same path as the first one, and he said this one is even more Queensryche-y.
Which is strange since Simone wrote in a more Queensryche vein and he got ripped and Geoff tried to totally change the songs and the style in the other direction. Weird.
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I think Sweet Oblivion is a bit generic, but also it's good enough to just hear Geoff singing this kind of music again.
Let's see how it's gonna be the songwritting on this new one, it depends how good Aldo Lonobile (Secret Sphere, Timo Tolkki's Avalon, Archon Angel) can be.
I think Tobias Sammet could do an excellent melodic metal album, composing all the songs with Geoff's classic style in mind, like he did in the last 2 Avantasia's albums (on the songs sung by Geoff).
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I guess I'll check out the new Sweet Oblivion album but I have to admit even though Geoff sounded fine on the last one I found it pretty forgettable. It wasn't bad or even flawed in a major way other than just not being very compelling and every time I listened to it I was doing it more out of a feeling that eventually it would have to click, it just never did, even after a solid 10 listens front to back. It had nothing to do with Geoff, though, I just didn't find it all that interesting.
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I guess I'll check out the new Sweet Oblivion album but I have to admit even though Geoff sounded fine on the last one I found it pretty forgettable. It wasn't bad or even flawed in a major way other than just not being very compelling and every time I listened to it I was doing it more out of a feeling that eventually it would have to click, it just never did, even after a solid 10 listens front to back. It had nothing to do with Geoff, though, I just didn't find it all that interesting.
I liked it when it came out, but Geoff was so dismissive of it, and so not engaged when I interviewed him about the album, that it put me off. He was happier to talk about his tour playing Empire in full than he was to talk about Sweet Oblivion.
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Scott Rock just posted this on Facebook:
wanna hear a fun story? goes like this :
”Contrary to any statements or interviews coming from other parties, I most definitely 'did not' and 'have not' quit, walked away, retired or abandoned Queensryche??!! ….unfortunately, you have not been given the facts by any means…”
a total cliffhanger right? ….
more soon
so, did anything actually come of this?
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Scott Rock just posted this on Facebook:
wanna hear a fun story? goes like this :
”Contrary to any statements or interviews coming from other parties, I most definitely 'did not' and 'have not' quit, walked away, retired or abandoned Queensryche??!! ….unfortunately, you have not been given the facts by any means…”
a total cliffhanger right? ….
more soon
so, did anything actually come of this?
Not yet. And I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
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New Todd song;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZTehe3M7o
This album is shaping up very nicely.
Really nice solo.
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All I know is that Id rather be Geoff with full ownership of OMCI and OMC !! in this crazy political climate and selling of his stock at its near peak, OMC has never been more relevant and that was by far the crown jewel of QR as a concept band and band period. IMO QR is long gone and what I call Toddsryche is different band , like Lynch Mob vs Don Dokken ... thats simply MY OPINION.
I really hope Scott is doing fine, and is healthy
When you say full ownership, that’s not strictly correct. He’s just the only person who can play the whole thing from start to finish. OMC II is an absolute pile of shite anyway and QR can still play whatever they want from the original album, just not the whole thing in one show which has been done to death anyway. They could still do a show with Revolution Calling, Spreading The Disease, Suite Sister Mary, Breaking The Silence, I Don’t Believe In Love and Eyes Of A Stanger for example and that would leave plenty of fans happy.
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New Todd song;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZTehe3M7o
This album is shaping up very nicely.
Really nice solo.
Agreed CD/LP is on its way to me, really looking forward to hearing the whole album.
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Unfortunately that was a big "meh" for me. Doesn't showcase his vocal ability. Repetitive and derivative of every thrash song ever. Also, totally forgettable solo. If you love thrash though, you'll enjoy it.
Agreed. He’s actually put out another new song today which is more in a QR vein and showcases his vocals more but it’s nothing special unfortunately.
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New Todd song;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZTehe3M7o
This album is shaping up very nicely.
Really nice solo.
Preordered!
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New Todd song;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZTehe3M7o
This album is shaping up very nicely.
Really nice solo.
Preordered!
Might add this one to the list.
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Holy balls. Just got this in the mail and it smokes (in a good way). Totally unexpected. Very heavy stuff and it showcases Todd's vocal capabilities (Tate, Halford, and some Ax Rose on this one).
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All I know is that Id rather be Geoff with full ownership of OMCI and OMC !! in this crazy political climate and selling of his stock at its near peak, OMC has never been more relevant and that was by far the crown jewel of QR as a concept band and band period. IMO QR is long gone and what I call Toddsryche is different band , like Lynch Mob vs Don Dokken ... thats simply MY OPINION.
I really hope Scott is doing fine, and is healthy
When you say full ownership, that’s not strictly correct. He’s just the only person who can play the whole thing from start to finish. OMC II is an absolute pile of shite anyway and QR can still play whatever they want from the original album, just not the whole thing in one show which has been done to death anyway. They could still do a show with Revolution Calling, Spreading The Disease, Suite Sister Mary, Breaking The Silence, I Don’t Believe In Love and Eyes Of A Stanger for example and that would leave plenty of fans happy.
Good point. Probably should have been mentioned earlier. But I suspect that when most see "Epicview," they just assume "troll" and don't bother to read anyway.
As for the Todd song, I agree with the last few posts. The first couple didn't really grab me at all, but this one is really good. When I saw the title, I was like, "Um...Roads To Madness, anyone?" Then when the soft guitar started, and the low vocals, I started laughing to myself. Todd sometimes really has a problem escaping his influences. But that said, once the song really gets going, it clearly has its own identity. Not bad at all.
Not sure why Sweet Oblivion is being discussed in this thread. I don't even know what Sweet Oblivion is, but what does it have to do with Queensryche?
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Not sure why Sweet Oblivion is being discussed in this thread. I don't even know what Sweet Oblivion is, but what does it have to do with Queensryche?
Geoff on vocals. The first one is really good (DGM guitarist wrote it). For the 2nd one, DelVechio (part of the Frontiers Factory) wrote it. Not sure what to expect from the 2nd one.
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But I suspect that when most see "Epicview," they just assume "troll" and don't bother to read anyway.
In the context of this thread, you are not wrong. I always expect a shot at Todd and/or the current QR lineup and then words of praise aimed at Geoff.
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I've tried to get into these songs, but I can't get passed the sampled drums. Rather than listening to the songs, I'm trying to figure out which preset they used from Superior Drummer 3. I'm spending my time thinking, "is that the Andy Sneap preset? Or is it Jens Bogren?" and it takes me right out of the ability to listen to it. I hope the album does well for him, but it's not working for me.
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But I suspect that when most see "Epicview," they just assume "troll" and don't bother to read anyway.
In the context of this thread, you are not wrong. I always expect a shot at Todd and/or the current QR lineup and then words of praise aimed at Geoff.
And that's pretty much what we get.
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I’ve really soured on Todd’s vocals since he took over for Tate and these new songs reaffirm I just don’t like the way he sings.
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Opinions are always fascinating to me because I think Todd is the best thing to happen to QR since they parted ways with Geoff Tate, which was LONG overdue. The last 3 albums with him are the best music they've released in 20 years
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Opinions are always fascinating to me because I think Todd is the best thing to happen to QR since they parted ways with Geoff Tate, which was LONG overdue. The last 3 albums with him are the best music they've released in 20 years
Couldn't agree more. And I would probably go a bit past 20 years.
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Opinions are always fascinating to me because I think Todd is the best thing to happen to QR since they parted ways with Geoff Tate, which was LONG overdue. The last 3 albums with him are the best music they've released in 20 years
I agree the music is great, but I don’t care for his style of vocals.
Curious peoples opinion on whether it was Tate getting kicked to the curb or the addition of Todd which turned the band around musically.
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Yes.
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Opinions are always fascinating to me because I think Todd is the best thing to happen to QR since they parted ways with Geoff Tate, which was LONG overdue. The last 3 albums with him are the best music they've released in 20 years
I agree the music is great, but I don’t care for his style of vocals.
Curious peoples opinion on whether it was Tate getting kicked to the curb or the addition of Todd which turned the band around musically.
to me IMO they are no longer QR,,.. some may like what it is now but as fan since 1982 they dont feel or sound like QR, QR was magical whatever they are now is generic to my ears so I see no turn around , they made more money with Tate and had a very loyal fan base with Tate , nobody from my old friends cares about them anymore. most my age would maybe want to see Tate do OMC and thats about all IMO
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heres the new Sweet Oblivion track, very uninspiring....
https://youtu.be/Eax-jFaAkoA
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Curious peoples opinion on whether it was Tate getting kicked to the curb or the addition of Todd which turned the band around musically.
I'd say 60% Tate getting kicked to the curb and 40% Todd.
Tate was the one who'd suppressed Wilton's contributions going all the way back to Promised Land. Once you bring back Wilton's contributions (writing and arrangements), and guitar tones, the music actually sounds like QR again.
Todd's got some impressive vocal chops and sounds way better than Tate has since they recorded Tribe, and I would say sounds better on some of the pre-R4O songs than Tate ever did. Todd often seems to struggle on Mindcrime/Empire era material that clearly stresses the control he has singing through the registers that Tate was a master of, and even latter day Tate waddling around the stage like a penguin after one too many fishes (and sounding like it too...) has more stage presence than Todd will ever have.
However, Todd's voice was new to the wider world so they never risked sounding like, for example, Queen Theater, he's a fan of the band's earlier days and seems to be really happy to be part of Queensryche in a way that an established journeyman vocalist might not. His writing fits the bill about as well as you could probably hope for too... I just wish they could rope DeGarmo in to, if nothing else, give the lyrics a once over to avoid the slightly clumsy lines that look better on paper than they sound sung.
Overall, whilst I feel like they could've done better than Todd in some ways (stage craft being the biggie) I'd say Todd injected some much needed energy back into the band and I think the end result is about as good as it could've been.
I'm happy with them where they are now with Wilton back at the level of prominence he should always have been.
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^All of that. And they kind of lucked out with having Parker in the band as well, as someone who also respected the early era of the band and truly put in the work to respect DeGarmo's playing and sound on that classic material.
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heres the new Sweet Oblivion track, very uninspiring....
https://youtu.be/Eax-jFaAkoA
odd but Tate likes to be unusual and artsy, I like it, Not sure I love it but its interesting
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Although I know what T-ski is getting at about "turning the band around musically," honestly, when you step back and look at the catalog objectively, the answer becomes a lot murkier. Although I'll give my opinion at the end of the post.
With DeGarmo, the band had a songwriting evolution. People may not have liked that evolution, but you hear a progression of songwriting from the EP-HITNF, and again with Tribe (particularly the songs that featured DeGarmo as a co-writer), that sounds like the same band. To me, THAT is Queensryche, that progression of songwriting that came in the form of DeGarmo and Tate, with a strong third man in Wilton in the 80s (and less so in the 90s). Rush is a band that very much changed throughout its 40 years, but still sounded like Rush. Queensryche, in its original form, was doing the same.
Opinions vary of course, but for my money, that continued evolution and the distinctiveness of those five guys and what they bring to the table (Scott has a very distinct, Rush-inspired flavor to his playing) really is "Queensryche."
When Geoff was fired and Todd was brought on, I think it's pretty notable to see that La Torre/Wilton wasn't the mainstay of the songwriting. It's VERY spread out. Eddie and Scott took a much larger role, and Parker, now, has grown as well. In a way, the band has de-evolved back to the early 90s, and has started forging a new path from Empire.
And I think that path has less to do with Wilton (who again, his playing, riffs and leads are very distinct and a key part of the QR sound), and more to do with La Torre helping frame the direction a bit. I mean, if you've heard his solo album, you see the metal he is capable of, so he's reigned in a bit in Queensryche to focus on that melodic, psuedo-progressive hard rock sound. But he's also said a number of times to me in those first few years of being in the band "that's too heavy for Queensryche." So in a way, I think it really has been La Torre who has been pushing the band to get heavier and heavier, but being conscious of that fine line of who Eddie and Michael are as players and the back catalog music.
In short, I'd say it is more La Torre's joining than Tate's firing that has pushed QR to where it is musically. I don't really hear a lot of songwriting evolution from Wilton. His riffs and leads are very much what he's always done from 1983-1990. And that's not a knock on Whip at all -- I'm just saying he is who he is as a writer and a player. Eddie has injected some more songwriting, and Parker has a little, but in total, to me, it's La Torre injecting his creative presence which has steered the band down the path they are now.
When you hear a Whip lead, there is this whiff of classic Queensryche. But other than that, it truly sounds like a different band to my ears these days. And that's not a criticism, that's what they should do. But if you like what you are hearing, I think the credit has to go to La Torre, as opposed to simply firing Tate. Had the band gotten a non-musician singer, I'm not sure they really would have gone down the path they have.
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Yeah, that's a pretty solid take.
When Geoff was fired and Todd was brought on, I think it's pretty notable to see that La Torre/Wilton wasn't the mainstay of the songwriting. It's VERY spread out. Eddie and Scott took a much larger role, and Parker, now, has grown as well. In a way, the band has de-evolved back to the early 90s, and has started forging a new path from Empire.
I agree with the overall point here. I just don't like the word "de-volved" in this context. And that is simply because I feel like that term is more apropos to where Geoff was taking the music after DeGarmo left. The first few albums, their sound was all over the place. And at first, it felt like, "yeah, typical QR, experimenting with different sounds and doing something pretty different from album to album." But it eventually just became apparent that Tate was steering the ship, and just didn't know how to write like the band used to write. The sound was devolving during that era of the band. (and that's not a slam on Slater--he was probably the best thing to happen to the band during that era as far as trying to get them to "sound like Queensryche") To me, their sound and writing took a huge leap forward in the LaTorre era from where it was during the Tate-Ryche years. But you're right that it did, in many ways, try to "go back in time" to that DeGarmo era.
But I don't think we are really saying anything different in the grand scheme of things. I just don't like that word in comparing their modern sound to the Tate-Ryche era, because I think they definitely moved upward from that.
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to me IMO they are no longer QR,,.. some may like what it is now but as fan since 1982 they dont feel or sound like QR, QR was magical whatever they are now is generic to my ears so I see no turn around
As opposed to Dedicated to Chaos or Frequency Unknown? :facepalm:
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to me IMO they are no longer QR,,.. some may like what it is now but as fan since 1982 they dont feel or sound like QR, QR was magical whatever they are now is generic to my ears so I see no turn around
As opposed to Dedicated to Chaos or Frequency Unknown? :facepalm:
I like 80% of FU and 50% of DtC
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to me IMO they are no longer QR,,.. some may like what it is now but as fan since 1982 they dont feel or sound like QR, QR was magical whatever they are now is generic to my ears so I see no turn around
As opposed to Dedicated to Chaos or Frequency Unknown? :facepalm:
I like 80% of FU and 50% of DtC
So therefore, they sound like QR?
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to me IMO they are no longer QR,,.. some may like what it is now but as fan since 1982 they dont feel or sound like QR, QR was magical whatever they are now is generic to my ears so I see no turn around
As opposed to Dedicated to Chaos or Frequency Unknown? :facepalm:
I like 80% of FU and 50% of DtC
So therefore, they sound like QR?
well Tates voice is a very strong if not defining element of the QR sound...Like Plant, Bowie, Mercury or Tyler etc defining their bands sound. DtC if one looks is a collaborative effort so to me it was a progression and and snap shot of the time and society. much like many dont like HITNF ( I do a lot ) but the new Toddsryche simply does not have any feel like that IMO . Wilton and Jackson certainly dont define the QR sound at all IMO .
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I agree with the overall point here. I just don't like the word "de-volved" in this context. And that is simply because I feel like that term is more apropos to where Geoff was taking the music after DeGarmo left. The first few albums, their sound was all over the place. And at first, it felt like, "yeah, typical QR, experimenting with different sounds and doing something pretty different from album to album." But it eventually just became apparent that Tate was steering the ship, and just didn't know how to write like the band used to write. The sound was devolving during that era of the band. (and that's not a slam on Slater--he was probably the best thing to happen to the band during that era as far as trying to get them to "sound like Queensryche") To me, their sound and writing took a huge leap forward in the LaTorre era from where it was during the Tate-Ryche years. But you're right that it did, in many ways, try to "go back in time" to that DeGarmo era.
But I don't think we are really saying anything different in the grand scheme of things. I just don't like that word in comparing their modern sound to the Tate-Ryche era, because I think they definitely moved upward from that.
Poor choice of words on my part about "de-volved." What I basically meant was, Queensryche, when La Torre joined, cut off everything essentially after Empire (TLT didn't even know the PL tunes when he joined the band), and restarted the band from the perspective of "what should we do that moves forward after Empire?"
That was what I meant. It's like if you cut the last 20 years of your life off, go back to what you were, and then take a different path. The problem is (at least for me, in regarding to my enjoyment of the QR catalog), I think Promised Land and HITNF are very necessary and very natural evolution of Queensryche's songwriting. They change, just like Rush changed.
It's really hard to explain, because obviously, once Chris left, they had a new engine of sorts in Kelly, that lasted a record, then CHris came back for half a record, and then Tate took over with Slater. It's like their songwriting evolution was stopped, re-started briefly, stopped again, and then it just became "whatever songs Geoff likes will be 'queensryche.'"
Then Todd came, and it reset everything back to Empire, branching off from that point. Honestly, even typing all that made my head spin.
But I wasn't calling the Gray and Tateryche eras (Q2k, then Mindcrime II - Dedicated to Chaos) part of that songwriting evolution. I was referring specifically to the EP-HITNF and half of Tribe.
And when Todd joined, the band sort of retconned everything they did as if Empire was the last record, and restarted from there. And from that point, I give TLT the credit of reshaping the sound of the band from there, because once you got the self-titled (sounded very much like an Empire sequel), Condition Human (things changing) and The Verdict (without Scott, the feel is different, and the record does not sound like older Queensryche, which is normal and fine, except for when you hear Wilton, and you hear that familiar style).
In a long winded way, I was crediting La Torre with helping steer the post-Tate era of the band into something different than what Queensryche once was.
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well Tates voice is a very strong if not defining element of the QR sound...Like Plant, Bowie, Mercury or Tyler etc defining their bands sound. DtC if one looks is a collaborative effort so to me it was a progression and and snap shot of the time and society. much like many dont like HITNF ( I do a lot ) but the new Toddsryche simply does not have any feel like that IMO . Wilton and Jackson certainly dont define the QR sound at all IMO .
Longest post ever from EPICVIEW! :lol
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to me IMO they are no longer QR,,.. some may like what it is now but as fan since 1982 they dont feel or sound like QR, QR was magical whatever they are now is generic to my ears so I see no turn around
As opposed to Dedicated to Chaos or Frequency Unknown? :facepalm:
I like 80% of FU and 50% of DtC
So therefore, they sound like QR?
well Tates voice is a very strong if not defining element of the QR sound...Like Plant, Bowie, Mercury or Tyler etc defining their bands sound. DtC if one looks is a collaborative effort so to me it was a progression and and snap shot of the time and society. much like many dont like HITNF ( I do a lot ) but the new Toddsryche simply does not have any feel like that IMO . Wilton and Jackson certainly dont define the QR sound at all IMO .
Tate's voice was a defining element, but far from the only one. It's quite easy to tell the difference between his solo albums and what classic QR is.
While he wasn't as prolific as DeGarmo (especially beginning with PL), I disagree with the assessment that Wilton did nothing to define QR's sound. During the most significant period where QR established themselves and defined their sound, he was solely responsible for all the music to:
Nightrider
Blinded
Warning
Deliverance
Before the Storm
Child of Fire
I Dream in Infrared
Chemical Youth (We Are Rebellion)
Revolution Calling
Speak
Spreading the Disease
The Needle Lies
My Empty Room
Empire
Resistance
Nevermind the other songs where he co-wrote with DeGarmo during that same period. Sure, not all of those songs above are the classics we think of immediately in what defines QR's sound, but certainly most of the songs on O:M and that little ditty called Empire are.
The stuff on DtC and FU sounds nothing remotely like that classic QR or nor does it have the underlying vibe that classic QR had. Noteworthy is the fact that neither album has a single Wilton writing credit. ;) OTOH, the albums with Todd pick up where they left off with Empire - especially that first album with Todd, which happens to be full of co-writing credits with Wilton. Hmmmm....... ::)
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Anyone listen to Todd's album yet? I have it ordered (being delivered Monday), but I just ran through it on Spotify.
First thoughts... It is heavy AF. Holy shit!
This album has way more in common with testament than it does with Queensryche. He goes into his Tate voice a few times, but the rest? Yikes!
After ONE listen, my main criticism is that it leaves me kind of cold. I was worried after the first three songs because other than the heaviness, I wasn't really feeling it. This album is short on vocal melodies. Darkened Majesty is a great song, and things start to look up at that point.
It does sound like a Halford meets Testament meets Barlow album. Todd goes way up Halford high, but honestly, I don't really connect with that. It's high to be high. Like I said, this album needs some vocal melodies.
The final (bonus) track, One By One has a great heavy intro, and features harshy vocals from Todd.
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Hmmm.....Halford/Testament/Barlow sounds good but I know what you mean mate from the first three songs released. I had a feeling it's lasting power may be short lived but I'm keen to hear it.
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Hmmm.....Halford/Testament/Barlow sounds good but I know what you mean mate from the first three songs released. I had a feeling it's lasting power may be short lived but I'm keen to hear it.
There are a bunch of really good tunes, and it is METAL for sure. Just gotta find the grooves because there aren't many hooks on this album.
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Listening to Todd's album now. Super heavy. I'm really enjoying it so far.
I'm also confused. Someone earlier mentioned something about programmed drums. Todd is a drummer by trade. He played drums on the last QR album and he played drums on this album. Very baffled by that comment.
Anyway, I'm not missing vocal melodies and whatnot. I'm digging the heaviness and it sounds good to me. He's really showing some vocal chops on this.
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re: Wilton
He absolutely helped define QR's sound. Not sure how any Queensryche fan could feel otherwise. His hands are all over the band's 80s metal years. Operation: Mindcrime would have been a very different album without Wilton, imo.
Through the 80s, it was a creative trinity between DeGarmo-Wilton-Tate. Tate gravitated more toward Chris over time, likely because DeGarmo was going other places with his songwriting, which was likely inspiring him more. But anyone not giving Michael Wilton his due as helping define QR's sound needs to go re-examine the band's catalog. ::)
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Listening to Todd's album now. Super heavy. I'm really enjoying it so far.
I'm also confused. Someone earlier mentioned something about programmed drums. Todd is a drummer by trade. He played drums on the last QR album and he played drums on this album. Very baffled by that comment.
Anyway, I'm not missing vocal melodies and whatnot. I'm digging the heaviness and it sounds good to me. He's really showing some vocal chops on this.
It’s not that they were programmed as much as the sounds themselves were either replaced or he used an electronic kit to trigger a sample library. I would bet the latter. It’s his performance on the drums, I don’t doubt that, but the sounds and the mix of the drums is definitely a preset from either Slate Trigger or one of the Toontrack products.
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Listening to Todd's album now. Super heavy. I'm really enjoying it so far.
I'm also confused. Someone earlier mentioned something about programmed drums. Todd is a drummer by trade. He played drums on the last QR album and he played drums on this album. Very baffled by that comment.
Anyway, I'm not missing vocal melodies and whatnot. I'm digging the heaviness and it sounds good to me. He's really showing some vocal chops on this.
It’s not that they were programmed as much as the sounds themselves were either replaced or he used an electronic kit to trigger a sample library. I would bet the latter. It’s his performance on the drums, I don’t doubt that, but the sounds and the mix of the drums is definitely a preset from either Slate Trigger or one of the Toontrack products.
Ah, yes, I get it. Yeah, triggers are getting to be the norm in a lot of heavier music and I really hate that. I agree after listening to the album. He probably was using triggers. Triggers make the drums so lifeless. I'll never understand their popularity.
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Listening to Todd's album now. Super heavy. I'm really enjoying it so far.
I'm also confused. Someone earlier mentioned something about programmed drums. Todd is a drummer by trade. He played drums on the last QR album and he played drums on this album. Very baffled by that comment.
Anyway, I'm not missing vocal melodies and whatnot. I'm digging the heaviness and it sounds good to me. He's really showing some vocal chops on this.
It’s not that they were programmed as much as the sounds themselves were either replaced or he used an electronic kit to trigger a sample library. I would bet the latter. It’s his performance on the drums, I don’t doubt that, but the sounds and the mix of the drums is definitely a preset from either Slate Trigger or one of the Toontrack products.
Ah, yes, I get it. Yeah, triggers are getting to be the norm in a lot of heavier music and I really hate that. I agree after listening to the album. He probably was using triggers. Triggers make the drums so lifeless. I'll never understand their popularity.
It’s a popularity due to price and convenience. Recording acoustic drums in a good space with good mics, good gear and a good engineer is expensive and time consuming. An electronic kit connected to a computer through a usb cable with a good virtual drum instrument is much, much cheaper and way more convenient.
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IMO Tates voice, followed by Chris's artistry and ability to "have less do more" as far as melody and structure, along with Scotts drumming is what defines the real QR sound, and I believe Tates ability to emote and be the character of the albums along with his amazing voice is what made QR outstanding.
does anyone really think QR as configured today could ever do a whole acoustic show? does anyone think Wilton could pull it off or Todd? time waits for no one and its no crime that Tate is getting older., to me Wilton was the weakest player the original lineup and his playing has never been the defining sound at all. The band is in some ways lucky to have Todd as he works and has taken the band over and I know thats what the other guys need even if they say otherwise. IMO as always
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Opinions are always fascinating to me because I think Todd is the best thing to happen to QR since they parted ways with Geoff Tate, which was LONG overdue. The last 3 albums with him are the best music they've released in 20 years
I agree the music is great, but I don’t care for his style of vocals.
Curious peoples opinion on whether it was Tate getting kicked to the curb or the addition of Todd which turned the band around musically.
I think it was a combination of the two. Tate had become more of a liability than an asset. Todd brought new energy and 1/100th of the ego and I think it really shines through in the quality of the 3 albums he's been involved with which, to me, are VASTLY superior to the three albums that came before it.
Unfortunately, I can't say I care for Todd's solo album at all so far. The vocals are screechy and weirdly mixed and the music is kind of bland and repetitive, like it's the same riff only a two or three note difference from song to song. In fairness I have not made it through the entire album yet so it could get better after the 4th track but if the rest of the album is like the first 4 tracks it's gonna be a hard pass from me.
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Unfortunately, I can't say I care for Todd's solo album at all so far. The vocals are screechy and weirdly mixed and the music is kind of bland and repetitive, like it's the same riff only a two or three note difference from song to song. In fairness I have not made it through the entire album yet so it could get better after the 4th track but if the rest of the album is like the first 4 tracks it's gonna be a hard pass from me.
I thought the first three tracks were not very good. The 4th track is excellent, and it does get better from there. Not a ton better, but better.
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Maybe I'll begin listening from Track #4 tomorrow morning.
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Maybe I'll begin listening from Track #4 tomorrow morning.
That's where my second listen started! ;D
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Opinions are always fascinating to me because I think Todd is the best thing to happen to QR since they parted ways with Geoff Tate, which was LONG overdue. The last 3 albums with him are the best music they've released in 20 years
I agree the music is great, but I don’t care for his style of vocals.
Curious peoples opinion on whether it was Tate getting kicked to the curb or the addition of Todd which turned the band around musically.
I think it was a combination of the two. Tate had become more of a liability than an asset. Todd brought new energy and 1/100th of the ego and I think it really shines through in the quality of the 3 albums he's been involved with which, to me, are VASTLY superior to the three albums that came before it.
Unfortunately, I can't say I care for Todd's solo album at all so far. The vocals are screechy and weirdly mixed and the music is kind of bland and repetitive, like it's the same riff only a two or three note difference from song to song. In fairness I have not made it through the entire album yet so it could get better after the 4th track but if the rest of the album is like the first 4 tracks it's gonna be a hard pass from me.
I agree and I do not like Todds solo stuff.,yea its heavy but its so IDK, passe' so overdone and trying too hard, IDk ... granted I simply dont like his voice anyway or his style or delivery and live hes simply hard to watch and amaturish, IMO to my ears ive never heard any Tate roundness or grandeur and tate owns the stage but he is getting older now for sure, makes one really respect Halfords longevity and magnificence. I more and more feel Toddsryche would be better off losing the QR name but they need it to survive. again its whats more Dokken? Don Dokken or Lynch Mob?, to me its Don
Its also kinda like Creed and Stapp vs Alter Bridge and Myles , I could never see Myles replacing Scott but as Alter Bridge it works as its whole other band vibe and sound and Scotts solo stuff gives one the Creed fill as Scott has that emotion that Creed gave. Myles much like Todd today has a bigger louder voice but to me Ill take Scott and Tate all day as its more rewarding and fulfilling of course MY OPINION only
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Anyone listen to Todd's album yet? I have it ordered (being delivered Monday), but I just ran through it on Spotify.
Yeah... initial impression wasn't great - first few tracks are probably the weakest - but now I've run through the whole thing a few times I'm really enjoying it.
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Tate's voice was a defining element, but far from the only one. It's quite easy to tell the difference between his solo albums and what classic QR is.
Tate's voice also evolved (...then devolved) over the years to the point where I doubt someone who doesn't know QR would recognise the voice on The Warning and on D2C (actually, probably as early as Q2k) as the same singer.
While he wasn't as prolific as DeGarmo (especially beginning with PL), I disagree with the assessment that Wilton did nothing to define QR's sound. During the most significant period where QR established themselves and defined their sound, he was solely responsible for all the music to...
I think you can add to the list a few others that're DeGarmo/Wilton, such as Surgical Strike and One And Only (despite the personal lyrics) where I'm guessing DeGarmo just did lyrics as per the songs on the EP. There's also an old interview on Headbanger's Ball after Empire was released where Tate admits to the lyric writing being split about 50/50... which, based on overall credits, suggests that on a few DeGarmo/Tate/Wilton songs DeGarmo's credit might've only been for collaborating on lyrics as opposed to, say, The Thin Line, where DeGarmo just used a Wilton riff to get a full piece.
Then there's that Wilton was the gear head of him and DeGarmo so I would bet he was responsible for crafting guitar tones even if it was at DeGarmo's direction at times.
I'm not trying to diminish Tate's importance to QR, nor DeGarmo's, but Wilton was a huge part of the EP-Empire period that established QR (and if that's where their career ends they're my favourite band, without question) and I'm just really happy to now be getting what is essentially "his" QR after years of the lobotomised QR Tate was presenting through Kelly Gray and Jason Slater.
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Cruithne nailed it on Wilton.
He was absolutely vital through Queensryche's most successful record. A huge part of what gave the band its signature musical style and sound. Good point as well on being a gearhead. So was Chris, but Michael gravitated toward gear and tones, and Chris branched out playing other instruments and on working on his songwriting. They really were the perfect pair (no disrespect intended to Kelly Gray, Mike Stone, or Parker Lundgren).
Not sure I agree with Cruithne about people not recognizing Tate's voice though. I mean if you play "The Lady Wore Black" or "No Sanctuary" where Tate slows down a bit, and then put on something like "At the Edge" or "Right Side of My Mind," I'm not sure how you can't not know it's the same singer.
Yes, Tate's voice changed, but it's still very distinctive. No one really sounds like him. His musical influences helped shape how DeGarmo would take what he and Michael wrote and present it Tate and the other guys.
But as for Wilton, spot on. The guy had a huge hand molding the QR sound from 82-90.
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Nobody can deny how awesome Geoff is from 82-94. If I was to play classic hard rock/metal songs to someone who wasn’t familiar with the genre and I wanted to impress them, Geoff from that time period is on the extremely short list on who I would pick. I agree with Brian that with the later songs you can always tell it’s the same singer, but it’s just not the same. I might say that 82-94 Tate singing is someone where you stop what you are doing and listen intently. After that time period you might just listen and say to yourself this is a pretty good singer and continue with what you’re doing.
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FYI, besides Geoff, I might also play Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules to someone not familiar with the genre
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I think of Tate/DeGarmo/Wilton a lot like Halford/Tipton/Downing. All three were necessary for the final product.
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well Tates voice is a very strong if not defining element of the QR sound...Like Plant, Bowie, Mercury or Tyler etc defining their bands sound. DtC if one looks is a collaborative effort so to me it was a progression and and snap shot of the time and society. much like many dont like HITNF ( I do a lot ) but the new Toddsryche simply does not have any feel like that IMO . Wilton and Jackson certainly dont define the QR sound at all IMO .
Longest post ever from EPICVIEW! :lol
thank bro yea pushed a lot buttons LOL , My typing style is curious for sure I love mystery :tup
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Nobody can deny how awesome Geoff is from 82-94. If I was to play classic hard rock/metal songs to someone who wasn’t familiar with the genre and I wanted to impress them, Geoff from that time period is on the extremely short list on who I would pick. I agree with Brian that with the later songs you can always tell it’s the same singer, but it’s just not the same. I might say that 82-94 Tate singing is someone where you stop what you are doing and listen intently. After that time period you might just listen and say to yourself this is a pretty good singer and continue with what you’re doing.
I agree Jason. Tate was starting to crack on Promised Land.
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Nobody can deny how awesome Geoff is from 82-94. If I was to play classic hard rock/metal songs to someone who wasn’t familiar with the genre and I wanted to impress them, Geoff from that time period is on the extremely short list on who I would pick. I agree with Brian that with the later songs you can always tell it’s the same singer, but it’s just not the same. I might say that 82-94 Tate singing is someone where you stop what you are doing and listen intently. After that time period you might just listen and say to yourself this is a pretty good singer and continue with what you’re doing.
I agree Jason. Tate was starting to crack on Promised Land.
the PL tour still in many ways was the band at its zenith and about to sadly experience many internal and and external road blocks. but wow that tour was amazing many dont understand that stamina Tate had that 90% of all singers dont have and Tate was an amazing stage performer who relished the acting and character roles, he really had no peers and was the star period, IMO to me only Halford had his the voice but again no metal singer had the stage craft and voice that Tate had. of course IMO ! what do i know lol. Tate still can do the long sets somehow but back then he was other worldly nightly... oh the good old days of debating the high note in THOTF...: )
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The PL tour...fucking amazing. The album...not so much.
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the PL tour still in many ways was the band at its zenith and about to sadly experience many internal and and external road blocks. but wow that tour was amazing
Agreed. That tour was amazing, and everything they did after it paled in comparison. Unfortunately I missed seeing the local Empire show since my cousin got married on the same day out of town. But from what I've seen on the Operation: Livecrime and Building Empires videos, the 90-91 tour was pretty impressive, too.
Tate was an amazing stage performer who relished the acting and character roles, he really had no peers and was the star period, IMO to me only Halford had his the voice but again no metal singer had the stage craft and voice that Tate had. of course IMO !
I don't know if I would go so far as to say he was amazing. Even on the PL tour, I thought some of the stuff he did came off a bit cheesy. And in the following years, especially once they returned to playing in theaters and clubs, you could see how much of what he said/did was just flat out shtick. I'd put Bruce Dickinson over him in terms of being a frontman and stage performer over Tater any day.
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The PL tour...fucking amazing. The album...not so much.
I tend to agree PL the album not my fav
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the PL tour still in many ways was the band at its zenith and about to sadly experience many internal and and external road blocks. but wow that tour was amazing
Agreed. That tour was amazing, and everything they did after it paled in comparison. Unfortunately I missed seeing the local Empire show since my cousin got married on the same day out of town. But from what I've seen on the Operation: Livecrime and Building Empires videos, the 90-91 tour was pretty impressive, too.
Tate was an amazing stage performer who relished the acting and character roles, he really had no peers and was the star period, IMO to me only Halford had his the voice but again no metal singer had the stage craft and voice that Tate had. of course IMO !
I don't know if I would go so far as to say he was amazing. Even on the PL tour, I thought some of the stuff he did came off a bit cheesy. And in the following years, especially once they returned to playing in theaters and clubs, you could see how much of what he said/did was just flat out shtick. I'd put Bruce Dickinson over him in terms of being a frontman and stage performer over Tater any day.
Hi SLS,
I saw all the early tours from 83 on , I loved them all, looking back its hard to say , Id have to say 83 into 84 was real exciting as Tates voice and the band was a big buzz in metal , and you are right when they got to do the medley of OMC for the first time live was one of my stand out memories, and my memory aint what it used to be LOL...
as far as Bruce, I see your point but IDK I saw Maiden w Paul and always liked Maiden w Paul more, something about Bruces voice doesnt grab me , but many do agree with you and the 3 Tremors is not bad company to be in. Tate was more thinking and emotion to my ears and had better delivery idk its all subjective to ones ears
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I agree with Brian that with the later songs you can always tell it’s the same singer...
But can we tell that because we already know Tate's voice well? It's tough to put aside decades of listening to someone, as they evolve, and then step back and think about someone who's literally never heard him before and won't immediately pick up on the enduring characteristics that give him away to us and is just comparing a bright, high, piping, voice (with a habit of quacking out lines) to a deeper, darker, smokier voice that sounds in need of a tonsillectomy - try listening to Get Started, one of the few palatable tracks off D2C, and the start of the line "we can't get what we're looking for"... it really sounds like something is blocking his soft palate that he's trying to hack out.
I know anecdote is not the plural of data but I'll try and do an experiment at some point with my wife, if I can somehow do it without it being a leading question. Our music tastes overlap a bit but she really dislikes QR, for reasons I've never quite figured out, so she really doesn't know her Tate from her Halford (though she would recognise Bruce as she likes Run To The Hills... :\) so it'll be interesting to see if my theory falls down at the first hurdle :lol
...but it’s just not the same.
Exactly. Even as a kid I never really went in for this idea of "heroes" when it came to sport and music but in the late 80s/early 90s Tate and DeGarmo were as close as it got and I think the pedestal I put Tate on back then factors quite strongly into how I felt about his singing since, particularly from around Mindcrime II/AS on.
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Cruithne has a fair point when he mentions is it because we know Tate's voice so well. It could be, yeah.
I remember in 2000, I was in law school, and driving with my roommate at the time. I had on Q2k, and he couldn't believe it was Queensryche (he liked it -- he was a mainstream rock guy, not an old school metal guy). I didn't really think about parsing it out at the time to figure out if he meant the voice or the music, but in retrospect, maybe he was talking about the vocal.
Tate's voice indeed does not "sound" the same as it did in his early years. Back then, he had real good technique. These days he doesn't and he's more singing where he's comfortable, as opposed to reaching to sing in an upper register.
In 2009, on the American Soldier tour, they played "Resistance" at the show I went to. At first, Tate sounded really bad, because he was off key, singing it lower. But in the second half of the song, he realized how off he was and made some effort to reach and sing in his upper registry, and he sounded fine. (Resistance, the way it was recorded, was in Geoff's upper register the entire time.)
Anyway, I'm not sure Cruithne sees my posts, but he has a real good point about our familiarity with Tate. I still say though, many of us can be pretty objective when necessary. The guy singing "Get Started" sounds to my ears like the guy singing "Jet City Woman." It's just that the former song isn't good and he's crooning, as opposed to the latter, where he's really using his range.
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Back then, he had real good technique.
I remember reading (or hearing) an analysis of Tate's early technique from a vocal coach - might've been Ken Tamplin. His conclusion was that Tate's unusual combo of head and chest voice would be quite damaging and unsustainable . I guess that turned out to be the case , whether that was what Tamplin said or Tate just letting his voice go , age etc......or all of the above.
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Back then, he had real good technique.
I remember reading (or hearing) an analysis of Tate's early technique from a vocal coach - might've been Ken Tamplin. His conclusion was that Tate's unusual combo of head and chest voice would be quite damaging and unsustainable . I guess that turned out to be the case , whether that was what Tamplin said or Tate just letting his voice go , age etc......or all of the above.
Yes, you saw it on YouTube. I saw the same thing. It wasn't technique as a whole, but he felt that the way Tate pushed out those high notes was damaging. I believe him. But Tate's technique, other than when he pushed to hit notes, was fine.
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Anyone listen to Todd's album yet? I have it ordered (being delivered Monday), but I just ran through it on Spotify.
First thoughts... It is heavy AF. Holy shit!
This album has way more in common with testament than it does with Queensryche. He goes into his Tate voice a few times, but the rest? Yikes!
After ONE listen, my main criticism is that it leaves me kind of cold. I was worried after the first three songs because other than the heaviness, I wasn't really feeling it. This album is short on vocal melodies. Darkened Majesty is a great song, and things start to look up at that point.
It does sound like a Halford meets Testament meets Barlow album. Todd goes way up Halford high, but honestly, I don't really connect with that. It's high to be high. Like I said, this album needs some vocal melodies.
The final (bonus) track, One By One has a great heavy intro, and features harshy vocals from Todd.
Finally arrived from USA today, loving the heaviness and Todd screaming his lungs out a la Halford and Midnight.
The compression on the CD is okay, hopefully the 'mastered for vinyl' copy I have will sound a little warmer and dynamic.
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I remember reading (or hearing) an analysis of Tate's early technique from a vocal coach - might've been Ken Tamplin. His conclusion was that Tate's unusual combo of head and chest voice would be quite damaging and unsustainable.
This one? "You'll lose your voice over time if you don't strengthen your chest voice, stretch it as far as you can and then hand it over to your head voice later", then pooh-poohs Tate's singing coach (who also worked with Ann Wilson and Chris Cornell...)
I don't know what he's thinking but that sounds completely at odds with anything I've been taught and seems to fly in the face of how laryngeal tilt works to change your pitch.
Tate himself certainly doesn't think the way he was taught was a problem if this 2018 interview is anything to go by http://www.noizzeater.net/int/geoff-tate-interview-2018.php though good luck getting Tate to admit his voice isn't what it once was.
Everyone's voice changes as we age. We all drop in pitch, to some degree, and lose range. I think the difference between Tate and others is where he started from and how early the changes kicked in. Guys such as Joe Elliott and Geddy Lee get a bigger pass than Tate because I don't think either was ever particularly feted for their singing prowess, despite how good they were at one time, and one of them also happens to be one of the all time great bass players.
As to what happened with Tate, I think it's a combination of how low his speaking voice was already back in 1984 (seriously, there's interviews with him and DeGarmo and he's speaking almost an octave lower than DeGarmo...*) in concert with how high he was being asked to sing taking its toll, even for someone with that wide a range and with great technique, combined with a tendency toward a lifestyle which stories suggest was/is far from a monastic existence.
Nowadays Tate is talking with a speaking voice that's at a pitch belonging to a proper Operatic bass singer (not a baritone in a SATB choir choosing an easy life and hoping no-one notices the lack of power on the low notes...) and still going out there and having a good stab at singing his way through Operation: Mindcrime. Even down-tuned half a step and modifying some of the parts it's not an easy ask... how good you might think he sounds doing it is a matter of opinion.
* and this isn't one of those situations where someone sounds deeper than they are because of resonance and how full/rich their voice sounds.
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Anyone listen to Todd's album yet? I have it ordered (being delivered Monday), but I just ran through it on Spotify.
First thoughts... It is heavy AF. Holy shit!
This album has way more in common with testament than it does with Queensryche. He goes into his Tate voice a few times, but the rest? Yikes!
After ONE listen, my main criticism is that it leaves me kind of cold. I was worried after the first three songs because other than the heaviness, I wasn't really feeling it. This album is short on vocal melodies. Darkened Majesty is a great song, and things start to look up at that point.
It does sound like a Halford meets Testament meets Barlow album. Todd goes way up Halford high, but honestly, I don't really connect with that. It's high to be high. Like I said, this album needs some vocal melodies.
The final (bonus) track, One By One has a great heavy intro, and features harshy vocals from Todd.
Finally arrived from USA today, loving the heaviness and Todd screaming his lungs out a la Halford and Midnight.
The compression on the CD is okay, hopefully the 'mastered for vinyl' copy I have will sound a little warmer and dynamic.
I'm giving this a spin before I decided if I buy it. I really like it, but I totally hear what Tim is saying. It certainly gets better as it goes on. I love the heaviness too. The tones remind me of Owens era Priest and you can really hear the Testament/Metal Church heavy vibes. I'll need another spin. Not sure if it would have the lasting power.
Lol, One By One is a bonus track? It could be the coolest thing on here.
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I'll be speaking with Geoff Tate on March 17th, to promote the second Sweet Oblivion album.
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I'm so sorry, bro. Need a hug?
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I'll be speaking with Geoff Tate on March 17th, to promote the second Sweet Oblivion album.
See this is one reason I could never do what you do Rodrigo. Nothing against Tate, but you have to act all excited to talk to anyone and I could never fake my way through that.
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I'll be speaking with Geoff Tate on March 17th, to promote the second Sweet Oblivion album.
See this is one reason I could never do what you do Rodrigo. Nothing against Tate, but you have to act all excited to talk to anyone and I could never fake my way through that.
Right with you on that Timmy.
I haven't paid too much attention, but didn't the guy who ran the show for the first Sweet Oblivion album say that Tater tried changing things around or was very difficult to work with, and that he would refuse to work with Tater again? If so, Rodrigo, you gotta bring that up in the interview! I know you can't hit him over he head with it like a sledgehammer, but please make sure you bring that up. Give him some tough questions wrapped up in a sugar sweet way! :biggrin:
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Anyone know where you could get a copy of Operation:Livecrime on dvd? Back in the day I got the vhs version (great forward thinking, I know), but I’d like the dvd version. Most places I’ve checked are rather pricey.
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If I were Rodrigo, I would get it over with by being as gracious and pleasant to Tate as possible. Why cause an inconvenience? We all know the mess that goes on, no need to beat him over the head with it in this interview as well. But then again, that's if I were Rodrigo. ;D
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Damn. Always appreciative of the valuable service Rodrigo provides the music community, but talk about taking one for the team! :lol
I'm pretty sure I've seen Tate present himself as a reasonably normal person before. It's not like he's never done interviews or anything. It'll be fine.
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Geoff is a great interview period. enjoy Rod, Im sure it will be fun and interesting...
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Anybody know what the deal was with the 92 unplugged show never being put out on cd or dvd?
There's some incredible stuff from that concert.
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Anybody know what the deal was with the 92 unplugged show never being put out on cd or dvd?
There's some incredible stuff from that concert.
Fantastic performance
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Anybody know what the deal was with the 92 unplugged show never being put out on cd or dvd?
There's some incredible stuff from that concert.
I'd hazard a guess that MTV own the rights and have for whatever reason decided not to officially release it.
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Anyone know where you could get a copy of Operation:Livecrime on dvd? Back in the day I got the vhs version (great forward thinking, I know), but I’d like the dvd version. Most places I’ve checked are rather pricey.
Ebay or Discogs will be your best options.
Anybody know what the deal was with the 92 unplugged show never being put out on cd or dvd?
There's some incredible stuff from that concert.
I think the timing wasn't right. They had just invested heavily in the LIVEcrime release (filming 3 entire shows etc.).
Putting out another show so soon after maybe wasn't desirable (I'm assuming they would have had to buy the full thing from MTV). Also they had taken 1992 and 1993 off. So maybe their minds just weren't on the business side of things back then.
Maybe Samsara can fill in.
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I know about the controversy regarding the first Sweet Oblivion. Apparently, the DGM guy, Simone Mularoni, wrote the whole album in the vein that Frontiers wanted: the Queensyche template with a modern edge. He sent the material to Geoff, and instead of just adding his vocal lines, he added a bunch of stuff in there, including horns, and drastically changed the direction of the material. Simone spoke with Frontiers, and they kinda pushed Geoff to release the material as originally intended. Simone went public about this in a very angry interview, but when I spoke with him about it late last year, he was a bit defensive and took the high road.
I did interview Geoff when the first Sweet Oblivion came out, and that was before I knew of the issues in the paragraph above. Contrary to any other artist I ever spoke with, who set time aside for interviews, this one was done on the phone as he was on his way to a gig, inside a noisy tour bus. He seemed surprised at the success of the album, and didn't [want to/know how to] give details about the lyrics and other things pertaining to the album. He lit up a little bit more when I spoke about his tours playing the old Queensryche material and Avantasia.
I listened to the second album earlier today, and it follows a similar path than the first one. Simone Mularoni is no longer involved, but this is by any means a logical sequel to the first one. We'll see how this interview goes. For your amusement, here's the first one I did, about two years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypg9r9YLzWA
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I know about the controversy regarding the first Sweet Oblivion. Apparently, the DGM guy, Simone Mularoni, wrote the whole album in the vein that Frontiers wanted: the Queensyche template with a modern edge. He sent the material to Geoff, and instead of just adding his vocal lines, he added a bunch of stuff in there, including horns, and drastically changed the direction of the material. Simone spoke with Frontiers, and they kinda pushed Geoff to release the material as originally intended. Simone went public about this in a very angry interview, but when I spoke with him about it late last year, he was a bit defensive and took the high road.
I did interview Geoff when the first Sweet Oblivion came out, and that was before I knew of the issues in the paragraph above. Contrary to any other artist I ever spoke with, who set time aside for interviews, this one was done on the phone as he was on his way to a gig, inside a noisy tour bus. He seemed surprised at the success of the album, and didn't [want to/know how to] give details about the lyrics and other things pertaining to the album.
Just did a quick search for Simone and found several interviews with him. It's funny because in most of them, he plays nice and there's no indication at all of any problems or ill will (probably forced on him by Frontiers) - in fact, when the question of taking SO on tour is asked, he always answered he was interested but it came down to scheduling, especially on Tater's end. But I also came across this interview:
https://metalwani.com/2019/07/simone-mularoni-reveals-how-geoff-tate-nearly-sabotaged-the-sweet-oblivion-project-it-sounded-like-hip-hop.html
So I would love to see you include some discussion on him adding a bunch of crap and trying to manipulate the direction of the album. Why did he do that? Definitely gives an indication of what he likely did back in 2010/2011 with QR's Dedicated to Chaos album.
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I know about the controversy regarding the first Sweet Oblivion. Apparently, the DGM guy, Simone Mularoni, wrote the whole album in the vein that Frontiers wanted: the Queensyche template with a modern edge. He sent the material to Geoff, and instead of just adding his vocal lines, he added a bunch of stuff in there, including horns, and drastically changed the direction of the material. Simone spoke with Frontiers, and they kinda pushed Geoff to release the material as originally intended. Simone went public about this in a very angry interview, but when I spoke with him about it late last year, he was a bit defensive and took the high road.
I did interview Geoff when the first Sweet Oblivion came out, and that was before I knew of the issues in the paragraph above. Contrary to any other artist I ever spoke with, who set time aside for interviews, this one was done on the phone as he was on his way to a gig, inside a noisy tour bus. He seemed surprised at the success of the album, and didn't [want to/know how to] give details about the lyrics and other things pertaining to the album.
Just did a quick search for Simone and found several interviews with him. It's funny because in most of them, he plays nice and there's no indication at all of any problems or ill will (probably forced on him by Frontiers) - in fact, when the question of taking SO on tour is asked, he always answered he was interested but it came down to scheduling, especially on Tater's end. But I also came across this interview:
https://metalwani.com/2019/07/simone-mularoni-reveals-how-geoff-tate-nearly-sabotaged-the-sweet-oblivion-project-it-sounded-like-hip-hop.html
So I would love to see you include some discussion on him adding a bunch of crap and trying to manipulate the direction of the album. Why did he do that? Definitely gives an indication of what he likely did back in 2010/2011 with QR's Dedicated to Chaos album.
Yeah, that was the only time when Simone opened up about it. We were going to do a follow up on that right after this interview was published, but other interviews got in the way.
I actually met Geoff at the hotel on the day of THAT show where he spitted on Scott Rockenfield in Sao Paulo. The man has a MASSIVE presence. I'd be very cautious of how to introduce this subject in an interview, but will give it my best shot. Will keep you posted!!!
Man, what a month!!! Steve Lukather, Richie Kotzen, Geoff Tate, Udo, Ronnie Romero...and more to come!!!!
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Simone is no slouch in writing. He writes greats solos and riffs with DGM. He also redid the amps in Michael Romeo's solo album (War of the Worlds) and I just love how the heavyness of the guitars sound in Romeo's record. I enjoyed Sweet Oblivion when it came out. The fact that Simone is not involved makes me a bit skeptical on the second album.
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Simone is no slouch in writing. He writes greats solos and riffs with DGM. He also redid the amps in Michael Romeo's solo album (War of the Worlds) and I just love how the heavyness of the guitars sound in Romeo's record. I enjoyed Sweet Oblivion when it came out. The fact that Simone is not involved makes me a bit skeptical on the second album.
The second one is just as good, man. And yes, DGM kicks ass!!!!
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Anyone know where you could get a copy of Operation:Livecrime on dvd? Back in the day I got the vhs version (great forward thinking, I know), but I’d like the dvd version. Most places I’ve checked are rather pricey.
Wow, I didn't realize it was out-of-print and that expensive (I just looked on Amazon). I agree with Setzer on the best online spots to find 'em. I'm wondering, however (and this is pure speculation on my part) if LIVEcrime might be included in whatever Empire box set that may be released (still waiting for Capitol Records to put it out)? Before you begrudgingly cough up more than 25 bucks for the DVD (I can't believe it is going for as much as it is), I'd wait and see what's in the box set first.
I think the timing wasn't right. They had just invested heavily in the LIVEcrime release (filming 3 entire shows etc.).
Putting out another show so soon after maybe wasn't desirable (I'm assuming they would have had to buy the full thing from MTV). Also they had taken 1992 and 1993 off. So maybe their minds just weren't on the business side of things back then.
Maybe Samsara can fill in.
Generally, that's my guess as well. The only bit of insight I can give is that around late-1999/early-2000 someone from Capitol Records got in touch with me asking if I had a first generation rip of the unplugged sessions. They asked because they ended up not being able to find some of the footage (or it could have been audio, this was 20+ years ago, so I don't remember exactly) and they needed it for the Building Empires DVD release. I had a second generation copy, so I couldn't help. I did follow up months later though, and he said they found the masters in a warehouse in Canada (I think it was Canada) and everything was fine.
So I am not sure it is MTV that is the holdup. After an additional 20 years, who knows what happened to those masters. I am assuming video, like audio, that is on tape has to be transferred to digital, right? Perhaps the footage is too far degraded at this point? Again, just speculating.
Re: Sweet Oblivion (feat. Geoff Tate) II -- Like Rodrigo, I also got the album via stream. One of my contributors to AnybodyListening.net is going to review the record and also interview Tate on the 17th. He'll then do an article that combines a review with Tate's interview. I scanned through the album briefly. It sounds okay. Certainly more...eclectic than the first. Whether that is a good or bad thing is obviously up to the listener. I'll listen to it as it gets closer to its release date.
Re: biography update -- very pleased to say that my co-writers and I are in the homestretch with the actual writing. I think we're close to 90k words at this point. I wrapped up my last bit a week or so ago, so all that is left is filling a couple of small gaps based on some interviews we're doing in the next couple of weeks. We have an eye on (I think we actually did decide on it) a great cover shot from an Empire era photo shoot that hasn't really been circulated. And some ideas for the back cover, interior photos, etc., are in the works. It's going to look great (hopefully read great too - lol).
For those wondering, yes, the book will be available in print, and also as a downloadable .pdf, and there will be an Amazon Kindle version too. A limited number of hard covers will also be produced with some bonus stuff and will be available for purchase on the NW Metal Worx website (Amazon, Barnes and Noble, etc., will all just have the standard paperback and e-versions). Without making any promises, we're fairly confident that the book will be out this fall as planned, with plenty of time before the holiday season. Pre-orders will be mid-to-late summer, and we have some cool marketing stuff via social media we'll do as we get into the spring and summer.
It will be worth the wait. We've all done some great interviews with people you wouldn't expect, and tried our best to make sure its the absolute definitive book on Queensryche. We've had a lot of fun with this and it will absolutely have things in it that you never knew about the band.
Oh, and I have a question. For those interested in the book, how important do you think it is to have a discography in the appendix? A few pages that feature information on each album, etc.? In your opinion, is that necessary, or is it just a waste of pages? We haven't decided whether to include one or not, and while this is obviously not a scientific poll, I thought I'd ask you all. I've noticed some band bios have discographies, and others do not. So let me know.
Thanks!
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So I am not sure it is MTV that is the holdup. After an additional 20 years, who knows what happened to those masters. I am assuming video, like audio, that is on tape has to be transferred to digital, right? Perhaps the footage is too far degraded at this point? Again, just speculating.
Maybe it's just because it was about 30 minutes long (if even that). I mean the broadcast was only 5 songs, and IIRC, they did 8 songs in total with Anybody Listening being completely off the cuff and not a good enough performance for release.
Re: Sweet Oblivion (feat. Geoff Tate) II -- <snip> Certainly more...eclectic than the first. Whether that is a good or bad thing is obviously up to the listener.
Gotta wonder if Tater managed to modify the songs more to his liking akin to what he tried with the first SO album. ???
Oh, and I have a question. For those interested in the book, how important do you think it is to have a discography in the appendix? A few pages that feature information on each album, etc.? In your opinion, is that necessary, or is it just a waste of pages?
Thanks for the update on the book - looking forward to checking it out! As for a discography, unless there's special items that no one knows about, I don't think it's probably necessary. I mean, isn't all that info already available online?
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The songs Geoff recorded with Avantasia were the best he recorded in a long time, as compositions and performances as a singer. I think it would be totally great if Tobias Sammet makes an entire album writing and producing songs for Geoff like those.
Anyway, I liked the first Sweet Oblivion album, nothing truly remarkable, but I still like Geoff singing this style of music.
For those who listened the second album, Geoff at least put more effort in his singing than in the first one?
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The songs Geoff recorded with Avantasia were the best he recorded in a long time, as compositions and performances as a singer. I think it would be totally great if Tobias Sammet makes an entire album writing and producing songs for Geoff like those.
Anyway, I liked the first Sweet Oblivion album, nothing truly remarkable, but I still like Geoff singing this style of music.
For those who listened the second album, Geoff at least put more effort in his singing than in the first one?
I didn't have a problem with his singing in the first one, and I think the second one is about the same. You can obviously hear that his voice has aged, and that's unavoidable. The second album is less Queensryche-y than the first, and a little bit more forward looking.
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Re: biography update -- very pleased to say that my co-writers and I are in the homestretch with the actual writing. I think we're close to 90k words at this point. I wrapped up my last bit a week or so ago, so all that is left is filling a couple of small gaps based on some interviews we're doing in the next couple of weeks. We have an eye on (I think we actually did decide on it) a great cover shot from an Empire era photo shoot that hasn't really been circulated. And some ideas for the back cover, interior photos, etc., are in the works. It's going to look great (hopefully read great too - lol).
For those wondering, yes, the book will be available in print, and also as a downloadable .pdf, and there will be an Amazon Kindle version too. A limited number of hard covers will also be produced with some bonus stuff and will be available for purchase on the NW Metal Worx website (Amazon, Barnes and Noble, etc., will all just have the standard paperback and e-versions). Without making any promises, we're fairly confident that the book will be out this fall as planned, with plenty of time before the holiday season. Pre-orders will be mid-to-late summer, and we have some cool marketing stuff via social media we'll do as we get into the spring and summer.
It will be worth the wait. We've all done some great interviews with people you wouldn't expect, and tried our best to make sure its the absolute definitive book on Queensryche. We've had a lot of fun with this and it will absolutely have things in it that you never knew about the band.
Oh, and I have a question. For those interested in the book, how important do you think it is to have a discography in the appendix? A few pages that feature information on each album, etc.? In your opinion, is that necessary, or is it just a waste of pages? We haven't decided whether to include one or not, and while this is obviously not a scientific poll, I thought I'd ask you all. I've noticed some band bios have discographies, and others do not. So let me know.
Thanks!
Really looking forward to the book, Brian. It’s about time the Ryche had a biography.
While a discography is a nice feature, I don't think it’s terribly important. Anyone reading the book probably knows the band’s discography by heart anyway. :lol
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I'll buy the amazon kindle version for sure! :tup
I don't know, but I think it would be more interesting if the discography appears at the end of the book in a more interesting way, with the author(s) ranking them from the best to worst (it's not a biography, but like it appears at Dream Theater's On Track...).
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Oh, and I have a question. For those interested in the book, how important do you think it is to have a discography in the appendix? A few pages that feature information on each album, etc.? In your opinion, is that necessary, or is it just a waste of pages? We haven't decided whether to include one or not, and while this is obviously not a scientific poll, I thought I'd ask you all. I've noticed some band bios have discographies, and others do not. So let me know.
Yeah what Zoom said about the discography. If it costs you money to print it, don't bother.
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I think it would be cool to have a discography.
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Bridge is up there as one of my favorite QR songs.
My father wasn't there either and never had any desire to, so it hits very deep.
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Speaking as someone who is planning to buy this—I LOVE 'Discography' sections, specifically, when there's a track-by-track/album-by-album commentary.
I forget which one (I have them all), but one of my KISS books has a song-by-song run-down at the end, complete with a little blurb cotaining comments from the band members...it's probably the only book I go back to, just for that reason.
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Speaking as someone who is planning to buy this—I LOVE 'Discography' sections, specifically, when there's a track-by-track/album-by-album commentary.
I forget which one (I have them all), but one of my KISS books has a song-by-song run-down at the end, complete with a little blurb cotaining comments from the band members...it's probably the only book I go back to, just for that reason.
I agree. If it's just a list of albums, that's not a big deal if it's there or not.
If there's comments from the band or producer, well, that's different and would be great.
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Speaking as someone who is planning to buy this—I LOVE 'Discography' sections, specifically, when there's a track-by-track/album-by-album commentary.
I forget which one (I have them all), but one of my KISS books has a song-by-song run-down at the end, complete with a little blurb cotaining comments from the band members...it's probably the only book I go back to, just for that reason.
I agree. If it's just a list of albums, that's not a big deal if it's there or not.
If there's comments from the band or producer, well, that's different and would be great.
Same thoughts. If it's just a list, then no biggie. But if it has extra commentary, producer notes, thoughts from the band, then I would go for it.
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Same.
EDIT: And I fully expect to be able to get my copy autographed.
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Speaking as someone who is planning to buy this—I LOVE 'Discography' sections, specifically, when there's a track-by-track/album-by-album commentary.
I forget which one (I have them all), but one of my KISS books has a song-by-song run-down at the end, complete with a little blurb cotaining comments from the band members...it's probably the only book I go back to, just for that reason.
I agree. If it's just a list of albums, that's not a big deal if it's there or not.
If there's comments from the band or producer, well, that's different and would be great.
Same thoughts. If it's just a list, then no biggie. But if it has extra commentary, producer notes, thoughts from the band, then I would go for it.
Same for me, too.
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It has been three months since one of my closest friends, Jason Slater, passed. I miss our talks, laughs, and all of his stories. As a tribute to him, I wrote a huge feature article that tells all of those Queensryche-related anecdotes he shared with my wife Staci and I over the years.
Jason and I always talked about writing a book together about his adventures. We never got the chance, but today, on what would have been his 50th birthday, seems like a great day to share all those Queensryche stories. Some will make you shake your head, others will make you laugh. Rest in peace, Jason. All of your friends deeply love and miss you.
Remembering My Friend, Jason Slater -- https://anybodylistening.net/jasonslater.html
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Sorry for your loss :(
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I really enjoyed what Slater brought to Mindcrime II
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I really enjoyed what Slater brought to Mindcrime II
Me too. R.I.P.
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I enjoyed OMCII I dont lsiten to it often, but the show of OMC and OMCII together was a really enjoyable show
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It has been three months since one of my closest friends, Jason Slater, passed. I miss our talks, laughs, and all of his stories. As a tribute to him, I wrote a huge feature article that tells all of those Queensryche-related anecdotes he shared with my wife Staci and I over the years.
Jason and I always talked about writing a book together about his adventures. We never got the chance, but today, on what would have been his 50th birthday, seems like a great day to share all those Queensryche stories. Some will make you shake your head, others will make you laugh. Rest in peace, Jason. All of your friends deeply love and miss you.
Remembering My Friend, Jason Slater -- https://anybodylistening.net/jasonslater.html
That was an intense, emotional, cathartic read. Thank you for sharing and sorry for your loss.
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I enjoyed OMCII I dont lsiten to it often, but the show of OMC and OMCII together was a really enjoyable show
Pretty much any show with OM is going to be at least enjoyable, that said, if you look at the tour before, that show has a hard time being seen as great.
Tour before you had a set of great material followed by one of the greatest concept albums of all time.
That tour you had one of the greatest concept albums of all time then followed by what was at BEST an ill conceived okay attempt at cashing in on that album. I still enjoyed that show, but compared to the previous tour it was downhill for sure.
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It has been three months since one of my closest friends, Jason Slater, passed. I miss our talks, laughs, and all of his stories. As a tribute to him, I wrote a huge feature article that tells all of those Queensryche-related anecdotes he shared with my wife Staci and I over the years.
Jason and I always talked about writing a book together about his adventures. We never got the chance, but today, on what would have been his 50th birthday, seems like a great day to share all those Queensryche stories. Some will make you shake your head, others will make you laugh. Rest in peace, Jason. All of your friends deeply love and miss you.
Remembering My Friend, Jason Slater -- https://anybodylistening.net/jasonslater.html
That was an intense, emotional, cathartic read. Thank you for sharing and sorry for your loss.
Indeed. Brian, thanks for writing that all down, and thanks for sharing it.
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I enjoyed OMCII I dont lsiten to it often, but the show of OMC and OMCII together was a really enjoyable show
Pretty much any show with OM is going to be at least enjoyable, that said, if you look at the tour before, that show has a hard time being seen as great.
Tour before you had a set of great material followed by one of the greatest concept albums of all time.
That tour you had one of the greatest concept albums of all time then followed by what was at BEST an ill conceived okay attempt at cashing in on that album. I still enjoyed that show, but compared to the previous tour it was downhill for sure.
Hi Nick How are you my friend....
Yes I was at the tour before and all the tours, I understand and agree, It was odd for sure and a bit over acted , but I still enjoyed , I guess I had seen OMC I done since the medley onward in every form and tour of it, that I think we all were just sorta hungry to see the much fabled and by some " wanted" part II, I personally was fine if they never made OMC II and it was always just OMC forever but for many reasons OMCII would happen for marketing and other options later down the road.... to my long winded point LOL , I / We enjoyed OMCII because the years of anticipation and you have to agree it was a great show and tate did get the audience going with the theatrics, it was a great( maybe a tad hokey lol ) live show looking back amazing to even say "looking back on OMC II " time goes fast
Have a great night Nick!!
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Thanks to those of you who read it and commented. Appreciate it. Hopefully you got something out of the stories. Maybe a little history you didn't know. :)
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Definitely a good read - thanks for sharing those stories. Some of them were familiar, but there were some things I don't recall, so it was nice to read the whole thing.
Speak of QR-related things I've just read, I found this pretty interesting:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-calls-his-queensryche-album-frequency-unknown-a-mess-and-not-a-very-satisfying-project/
Obviously Tater won't take all the blame for FU, but at least he's admitting that it was a mess.
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Definitely a good read - thanks for sharing those stories. Some of them were familiar, but there were some things I don't recall, so it was nice to read the whole thing.
Speak of QR-related things I've just read, I found this pretty interesting:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-calls-his-queensryche-album-frequency-unknown-a-mess-and-not-a-very-satisfying-project/
Obviously Tater won't take all the blame for FU, but at least he's admitting that it was a mess.
That was a funny interview, especially the part when the interviewer says he played guitar on the remix of Frequency Unknown, and Geoff was like "what?!?! They remixed that album? I didn't know that!!"
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I ended up ordering the TLT album. Been spinning it a bit and I actually think it's fucking unreal.
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Definitely a good read - thanks for sharing those stories. Some of them were familiar, but there were some things I don't recall, so it was nice to read the whole thing.
Speak of QR-related things I've just read, I found this pretty interesting:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-calls-his-queensryche-album-frequency-unknown-a-mess-and-not-a-very-satisfying-project/
Obviously Tater won't take all the blame for FU, but at least he's admitting that it was a mess.
Way to keep tabs on what's going on with your own artwork, Tater.... ::)
That was a funny interview, especially the part when the interviewer says he played guitar on the remix of Frequency Unknown, and Geoff was like "what?!?! They remixed that album? I didn't know that!!"
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Don't know how many people here are familiar with Dean Delray's "Let There Be Talk" podcast. He's a Bay Area guy who was a musician in the 90's (friend of many popular musicians, many of which he's had on his show) and has been a comedian for the past 8-9 years. Anyway, his latest episode is an hour-long interview with Geoff Tate. A lot of times, Tate comes off as (in my opinion) a pretentious dick in his interviews. However, for this one, he came off as, dare I say, charming. He talks about his whole history with the band and touches upon his Sweet Oblivion project. I'd recommend it to anyone who has ever been a fan of GT.
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Don't know how many people here are familiar with Dean Delray's "Let There Be Talk" podcast. He's a Bay Area guy who was a musician in the 90's (friend of many popular musicians, many of which he's had on his show) and has been a comedian for the past 8-9 years. Anyway, his latest episode is an hour-long interview with Geoff Tate. A lot of times, Tate comes off as (in my opinion) a pretentious dick in his interviews. However, for this one, he came off as, dare I say, charming. He talks about his whole history with the band and touches upon his Sweet Oblivion project. I'd recommend it to anyone who has ever been a fan of GT.
Link Please?
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I ended up ordering the TLT album. Been spinning it a bit and I actually think it's fucking unreal.
Oh yes. There are some songs where I wasn't expecting that from this record. I also wasn't expecting the heavyness of the record. That is one massive guitar tone!
Been playing it constantly.
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Oddly enough, it's the vocals that really bug me on this. I like what he did with Queensryche but he's really very screechy on this album.
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I ended up ordering the TLT album. Been spinning it a bit and I actually think it's fucking unreal.
Oh yes. There are some songs where I wasn't expecting that from this record. I also wasn't expecting the heavyness of the record. That is one massive guitar tone!
Been playing it constantly.
Got a nice signed deluxe version with a sticker and guitar pick. Nice little package and been spinning it too. Fantastic heavy metal.
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At first I wasn't sure what to think about Rejoice... but now I'm really loving the album. At first, the variety of the TLT vocal performances (within the metal style) seemed to me a bit forced, but now I think it suits the songs and I'm very impressed. TLT is a very talended musician and songwritter, this album totally reaffirms that. My only tiny complaint is the sound of the drums that could be more organic, but they are Ok (and TLT drum performances are very good). Although the album is very homogenous, I would say Critical Cynic and Vexed are amazing!
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I spoke with Geoff this afternoon, and I gotta say, I understand his persona a little bit more. He's not a douchebag as many of us tend to believe, but he does have his moments and is kind of tired with all the B.S. of the music business. I commented about the first single that the song is what his fans want: a nod to the old Queensryche sound, with a modern edge. He said "well, that's what a reviewer would say, but I just sit down and write songs". That was honest of him, but some people might think it's confrontational. Another moment was this:
Geoff, you mentioned that you were more involved in the songwriting process of the second Sweet Oblivion album. Can you tell me which songs you brought to the table?"
G.T.: "I can't remember".
Honestly, how do you respond that way about an album you're JUST about to release and promote? But I didn't get a sense that it comes from a place of not caring, he just didn't remember. We shared a few laughs during the interview, and spoke about recording at Le Studio and with Peter Collins, who had worked with Rush. You guys are going to enjoy this chat!
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Oddly enough, it's the vocals that really bug me on this. I like what he did with Queensryche but he's really very screechy on this album.
i can not stand Todds voice and delivery and his stage presence is even worse, other than that hes good LOL I cant put my finger on it, ive tried
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I spoke with Geoff this afternoon, and I gotta say, I understand his persona a little bit more. He's not a douchebag as many of us tend to believe, but he does have his moments and is kind of tired with all the B.S. of the music business. I commented about the first single that the song is what his fans want: a nod to the old Queensryche sound, with a modern edge. He said "well, that's what a reviewer would say, but I just sit down and write songs". That was honest of him, but some people might think it's confrontational. Another moment was this:
Geoff, you mentioned that you were more involved in the songwriting process of the second Sweet Oblivion album. Can you tell me which songs you brought to the table?"
G.T.: "I can't remember".
Honestly, how do you respond that way about an album you're JUST about to release and promote? But I didn't get a sense that it comes from a place of not caring, he just didn't remember. We shared a few laughs during the interview, and spoke about recording at Le Studio and with Peter Collins, who had worked with Rush. You guys are going to enjoy this chat!
very very cool Rod..... Geoff is an interesting guy for sure.. I think he was playing with you that hes getting old and cant remember. he has a quirky sense of humor that sometimes falls flat,, Ive always enjoyed speaking with him as he can be very thoughtful and kind with his time.
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I spoke with Geoff this afternoon, and I gotta say, I understand his persona a little bit more. He's not a douchebag as many of us tend to believe, but he does have his moments and is kind of tired with all the B.S. of the music business. I commented about the first single that the song is what his fans want: a nod to the old Queensryche sound, with a modern edge. He said "well, that's what a reviewer would say, but I just sit down and write songs". That was honest of him, but some people might think it's confrontational. Another moment was this:
Geoff, you mentioned that you were more involved in the songwriting process of the second Sweet Oblivion album. Can you tell me which songs you brought to the table?"
G.T.: "I can't remember".
Honestly, how do you respond that way about an album you're JUST about to release and promote? But I didn't get a sense that it comes from a place of not caring, he just didn't remember. We shared a few laughs during the interview, and spoke about recording at Le Studio and with Peter Collins, who had worked with Rush. You guys are going to enjoy this chat!
What were you expecting?
G.T.: "I remember now". ;D
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I spoke with Geoff this afternoon, and I gotta say, I understand his persona a little bit more. He's not a douchebag as many of us tend to believe, but he does have his moments and is kind of tired with all the B.S. of the music business. I commented about the first single that the song is what his fans want: a nod to the old Queensryche sound, with a modern edge. He said "well, that's what a reviewer would say, but I just sit down and write songs". That was honest of him, but some people might think it's confrontational. Another moment was this:
Geoff, you mentioned that you were more involved in the songwriting process of the second Sweet Oblivion album. Can you tell me which songs you brought to the table?"
G.T.: "I can't remember".
Honestly, how do you respond that way about an album you're JUST about to release and promote? But I didn't get a sense that it comes from a place of not caring, he just didn't remember. We shared a few laughs during the interview, and spoke about recording at Le Studio and with Peter Collins, who had worked with Rush. You guys are going to enjoy this chat!
What were you expecting?
G.T.: "I remember now". ;D
:tup :tup
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I spoke with Geoff this afternoon, and I gotta say, I understand his persona a little bit more. He's not a douchebag as many of us tend to believe, but he does have his moments and is kind of tired with all the B.S. of the music business. I commented about the first single that the song is what his fans want: a nod to the old Queensryche sound, with a modern edge. He said "well, that's what a reviewer would say, but I just sit down and write songs". That was honest of him, but some people might think it's confrontational. Another moment was this:
Geoff, you mentioned that you were more involved in the songwriting process of the second Sweet Oblivion album. Can you tell me which songs you brought to the table?"
G.T.: "I can't remember".
Honestly, how do you respond that way about an album you're JUST about to release and promote? But I didn't get a sense that it comes from a place of not caring, he just didn't remember. We shared a few laughs during the interview, and spoke about recording at Le Studio and with Peter Collins, who had worked with Rush. You guys are going to enjoy this chat!
What were you expecting?
G.T.: "I remember now". ;D
,,,,,,, I remember how it started......
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Speaking as someone who is planning to buy this—I LOVE 'Discography' sections, specifically, when there's a track-by-track/album-by-album commentary.
I forget which one (I have them all), but one of my KISS books has a song-by-song run-down at the end, complete with a little blurb cotaining comments from the band members...it's probably the only book I go back to, just for that reason.
Agree. Several boxsets I have include a song-by-song breakdown with comments from the artists and I too find myself going back to read them. It's a great mechanic.
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I always thought Real Word was an extension of the Empire sound, rather than a lead-in to the Promised Land sound
This. Empire's producer Peter Collins produced Real World too, so I always lumped the song in with the Empire album as well. Even though Real World was recorded during the Promised Land sessions, it always felt strange to include it on the Promised Land CD.
Well, the band did start doing demos in late-1992early-1993 before they got down to business. My guess always has been that Real World and Dirty Lil Secret were some of those songs they had worked up before they went to Big Log. Which if you listen to both, both do have that extension of Empire thing going on.
That said, the original QR's writing always did follow an evolutionary arc to a degree, so who knows.
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Here's the interview with Geoff: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-tate-geoff/?fbclid=IwAR30DZeNafmWzG0wqU7QfLuqZPzTEl-BtLK5yYYSlTNHemtDR6WLZtVmZsg
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Here's the interview with Geoff: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-tate-geoff/?fbclid=IwAR30DZeNafmWzG0wqU7QfLuqZPzTEl-BtLK5yYYSlTNHemtDR6WLZtVmZsg
Thank You Rod very much enjoying your very fine interview well done!!
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Thanks!
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Geoff’s explorations outside music include wine, movies and tourism, all of which are fields he inVESTED on.
:lol
Was that intentional?
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Geoff’s explorations outside music include wine, movies and tourism, all of which are fields he inVESTED on.
:lol
Was that intentional?
LOL...not at this time, but I guess it was in my subconscious.
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The new Sweet Oblivion record is pretty good, despite the change in songwriterfs I think Frontiers released singles that weren't the best songs on the album - there's some cool stuff on the album. This is exactly the type of record that Geoff should be doing - he sounds really good singing melodic hard/heavy rock.
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The new Sweet Oblivion record is pretty good, despite the change in songwriterfs I think Frontiers released singles that weren't the best songs on the album - there's some cool stuff on the album. This is exactly the type of record that Geoff should be doing - he sounds really good singing melodic hard/heavy rock.
Yes, and probably 'should've' been doing a long time ago... ;)
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I liked Geoff's solo stuff back in the day.
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I liked Geoff's solo stuff back in the day.
Yeah, Geoff's solo album from 2002 was so damn good (especially "A Passenger," "Helpless," "This Moment," and "Over Me") , and I always wished he would return to that sound.
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I have fallen in love again with TRIBE. it really fits the somber mood of covid life much like how it really had the somber emotion and texture of post 9-11 life
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I have fallen in love again with TRIBE. it really fits the somber mood of covid life much like how it really had the somber emotion and texture of post 9-11 life
Huh. I thought I was the only one that loved Tribe lol. There's a lot of memorable melodies in Tribe.
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I have fallen in love again with TRIBE. it really fits the somber mood of covid life much like how it really had the somber emotion and texture of post 9-11 life
Huh. I thought I was the only one that loved Tribe lol. There's a lot of memorable melodies in Tribe.
Its an amazing CD, again timeless stuff by Tate's QR
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I should refamiliarize myself with Tribe. Been ages since I heard it.
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Yup...Open is a great song I got into when it came out and was playing on the radio. I was about 11...
Then I saw them live in 2007 and they played it. It was a great setlist too.
I enjoy it quite a bit. It has a southwestern desert feel to it's atmosphere, it's heard in Desert Dance, Rhythm of Hope, and Blood.
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im enjoying the TRIBE talk ..
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Haha...It was actually the first Queensryche album I bought. Because I liked Open.
Epic, what are your favorites and why do you enjoy Tribe?
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Haha...It was actually the first Queensryche album I bought. Because I liked Open.
Epic, what are your favorites and why do you enjoy Tribe?
HI Ben,
Hmmmm I like Desert Dance , Rhythm of Hope , Blood, Open and the song Tribe a real lot, I even like Doin Fine as the closer ,, i like the texture and somber feel, it feels real authentic, its a quick album, I like every song and it was a fun tour. I enjoyed that tour like all QR tours with Geoff
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Haha...It was actually the first Queensryche album I bought. Because I liked Open.
Epic, what are your favorites and why do you enjoy Tribe?
HI Ben,
Hmmmm I like Desert Dance , Rhythm of Hope , Blood, Open and the song Tribe a real lot, I even like Doin Fine as the closer ,, i like the texture and somber feel, it feels real authentic, its a quick album, I like every song and it was a fun tour. I enjoyed that tour like all QR tours with Geoff
Similar feelings for me as well. Reminds me of a more straightforward version of Promised Land.
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I liked about half of Tribe. My opinion hasn't really changed. About half is REALLY good, and the other half ranges from so-so to unlistenable.
Saw them on the "co-headlining" tour with DT and FW. Overall, it was a great tour, and great seeing my #1 and #2 favorite bands (at the time) touring together. But Geoff sounded pretty rocky in a lot of places throughout the set, even on Open, which is NOT a hard song to sing at all. And it was also kind of annoying that they decided to split the headlining by east/west of the Mississippi, rather than alternating. I saw 2 California shows, and got QR headlining both. Which was...fine. But it would have been better getting to see them switch. But still, they were good shows, and those joint encores were a dream come true for me as a huge fan of both bands.
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I have fallen in love again with TRIBE. it really fits the somber mood of covid life much like how it really had the somber emotion and texture of post 9-11 life
Always loved this album. Never understood the hate. The title track would easily make a list of my fav QR songs.
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Haha...It was actually the first Queensryche album I bought. Because I liked Open.
Epic, what are your favorites and why do you enjoy Tribe?
HI Ben,
Hmmmm I like Desert Dance , Rhythm of Hope , Blood, Open and the song Tribe a real lot, I even like Doin Fine as the closer ,, i like the texture and somber feel, it feels real authentic, its a quick album, I like every song and it was a fun tour. I enjoyed that tour like all QR tours with Geoff
Similar feelings for me as well. Reminds me of a more straightforward version of Promised Land.
agreed, I find it much better than PL as far as a whole album
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I have fallen in love again with TRIBE. it really fits the somber mood of covid life much like how it really had the somber emotion and texture of post 9-11 life
Always loved this album. Never understood the hate. The title track would easily make a list of my fav QR songs.
I think the hate of it came from how the band seemed a bit lost and the hype of Chris's return not materializing. there was a ton of hype in the air and none of it was real
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I liked about half of Tribe. My opinion hasn't really changed. About half is REALLY good, and the other half ranges from so-so to unlistenable.
Saw them on the "co-headlining" tour with DT and FW. Overall, it was a great tour, and great seeing my #1 and #2 favorite bands (at the time) touring together. But Geoff sounded pretty rocky in a lot of places throughout the set, even on Open, which is NOT a hard song to sing at all. And it was also kind of annoying that they decided to split the headlining by east/west of the Mississippi, rather than alternating. I saw 2 California shows, and got QR headlining both. Which was...fine. But it would have been better getting to see them switch. But still, they were good shows, and those joint encores were a dream come true for me as a huge fan of both bands.
agreed I too enjoyed multiple shows of that tour for the same reasons Boss...
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I liked about half of Tribe. My opinion hasn't really changed. About half is REALLY good, and the other half ranges from so-so to unlistenable.
Saw them on the "co-headlining" tour with DT and FW. Overall, it was a great tour, and great seeing my #1 and #2 favorite bands (at the time) touring together. But Geoff sounded pretty rocky in a lot of places throughout the set, even on Open, which is NOT a hard song to sing at all. And it was also kind of annoying that they decided to split the headlining by east/west of the Mississippi, rather than alternating. I saw 2 California shows, and got QR headlining both. Which was...fine. But it would have been better getting to see them switch. But still, they were good shows, and those joint encores were a dream come true for me as a huge fan of both bands.
I saw the same tour in Boston. Honestly, Tate was pretty terrible. He wouldn't shut the fuck up in between songs and if I didn't know any better it almost seemed like he was baiting one of the guitarists with his banter. A lot of people in the audience were shouting "shut the fuck up and play!" because of his incessant bragging. Which was really strange because his singing was very spotty and pitchy as hell. He would move the microphone away from his mouth for every note that was even slightly high. The highlight of that show was Nick D'Virgilio on drums with Fates Warning and Dream Theater playing Metropolis Part I at about twice the speed of the album version so they could finish before the curfew, which I think they went over by like 2 or 3 minutes and ended up paying a $30,000 fine for it.
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I liked about half of Tribe. My opinion hasn't really changed. About half is REALLY good, and the other half ranges from so-so to unlistenable.
Saw them on the "co-headlining" tour with DT and FW. Overall, it was a great tour, and great seeing my #1 and #2 favorite bands (at the time) touring together. But Geoff sounded pretty rocky in a lot of places throughout the set, even on Open, which is NOT a hard song to sing at all. And it was also kind of annoying that they decided to split the headlining by east/west of the Mississippi, rather than alternating. I saw 2 California shows, and got QR headlining both. Which was...fine. But it would have been better getting to see them switch. But still, they were good shows, and those joint encores were a dream come true for me as a huge fan of both bands.
I saw the same tour in Boston. Honestly, Tate was pretty terrible. He wouldn't shut the fuck up in between songs and if I didn't know any better it almost seemed like he was baiting one of the guitarists with his banter. A lot of people in the audience were shouting "shut the fuck up and play!" because of his incessant bragging. Which was really strange because his singing was very spotty and pitchy as hell. He would move the microphone away from his mouth for every note that was even slightly high. The highlight of that show was Nick D'Virgilio on drums with Fates Warning and Dream Theater playing Metropolis Part II at about twice the speed of the album version so they could finish before the curfew, which I think they went over by like 2 or 3 minutes and ended up paying a $30,000 fine for it.
Interesting KNH. Tate was fine when I saw him, but maybe it was the co headlining thing that was bothering him , who knows. at one of my shows I noticed DT as the opener was not very loud and seemed to have tech issues.
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I liked about half of Tribe. My opinion hasn't really changed. About half is REALLY good, and the other half ranges from so-so to unlistenable.
Saw them on the "co-headlining" tour with DT and FW. Overall, it was a great tour, and great seeing my #1 and #2 favorite bands (at the time) touring together. But Geoff sounded pretty rocky in a lot of places throughout the set, even on Open, which is NOT a hard song to sing at all. And it was also kind of annoying that they decided to split the headlining by east/west of the Mississippi, rather than alternating. I saw 2 California shows, and got QR headlining both. Which was...fine. But it would have been better getting to see them switch. But still, they were good shows, and those joint encores were a dream come true for me as a huge fan of both bands.
I saw the same tour in Boston. Honestly, Tate was pretty terrible. He wouldn't shut the fuck up in between songs and if I didn't know any better it almost seemed like he was baiting one of the guitarists with his banter. A lot of people in the audience were shouting "shut the fuck up and play!" because of his incessant bragging. Which was really strange because his singing was very spotty and pitchy as hell. He would move the microphone away from his mouth for every note that was even slightly high. The highlight of that show was Nick D'Virgilio on drums with Fates Warning and Dream Theater playing Metropolis Part II at about twice the speed of the album version so they could finish before the curfew, which I think they went over by like 2 or 3 minutes and ended up paying a $30,000 fine for it.
Interesting KNH. Tate was fine when I saw him, but maybe it was the co headlining thing that was bothering him , who knows. at one of my shows I noticed DT as the opener was not very loud and seemed to have tech issues.
It was just before he quit (or was thrown out depending on who is telling the story) so there was a lot of tension. Oddly enough I saw them play Operation: Mindcrime live back in the day and he was fucking breathtaking. Just incredible. And it hadn't all gone to his head yet or at least he wasn't carrying himself like a total douchenozzle. I think the end of his time with QR was probably very stressful.
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The highlight of that show was Nick D'Virgilio on drums with Fates Warning and Dream Theater playing Metropolis Part II at about twice the speed of the album version so they could finish before the curfew, which I think they went over by like 2 or 3 minutes and ended up paying a $30,000 fine for it.
Just a clarification: it was Metropolis part 1 that they sped up, and the point where they went over by 3 minutes and got docked for $30,000 was for the Score show. ;)
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As a fan of both bands, it was a great experience. PLUS, Fates with NDV. Ironic though that bad blood between some band members fueled As I Am and drove the fatal spike in QR's stint with Tate.
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Since we are discussing a past album, I'll go ahead and briefly give me thoughts on each one. But my order will be a bit...unconventional, for reasons that will make sense below.
Mindcrime: Queensryche was not on my radar. I had seen the random add here and there in Hit Parader or Circus, but hadn't heard them, and didn't really know anything about them. When I was in the Marine Corps, a guy that learned that I liked hard rock gave me a copy of Mindcrime to listen to. At first, it didn't take. It was just a bit too...out there for me. But I didn't dislike what I was hearing either, and some of it wasn't bad. Then I saw a cover band in a little club cover I Don't Believe In Love. In fact, they played it TWICE. And that made me revisit the album. A lot. And this time, it did click. I started listening to it quite a bit.
Empire: When Empire came out, the pump had been sufficiently primed. I bought it, loved it, and played it to death. Many a lonely night in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait during the Gulf War had this album or Mother Love Bone's Apple playing on my headphones. When I got back, I saw them on this tour with Suicidal Tendencies opening, and them playing Mindcrime in its entirety. Total game changer. I had a new favorite band. I began to explore the back catalog from here.
EP: I really liked The Lady Wore Black, but the rest was so-so to me. It wasn't until I heard version of a lot of these songs on Live In Tokyo later that I REALLY appreciated them.
Warning: Didn't really care for it as a whole, but there are a lot of strong tracks.
Rage: Really experimental and cool. This album is all over the place, and I really liked (and still do like) that.
Promised Land: A slow grower, but this one competes with Empire for my top spot, depending on mood. I Am I and Damaged are amazing. But the lack of heaviness really through me at first and left me wanting more. Gradually, I began to appreciate the album for what it is, and loved getting lost in the atmosphere and the head space of it.
Hear in the Now Frontier: I don't know anyone who loves this album as much as I do. It is different for them, but it totally worked for me. For a long time, this was a band that could adopt things into their music that reflected a particular style without being that particular style. I like that the stripped-down, simple nature of the album reflected the grunge movement without being grunge, and was done in a very QR style. To this day, his is a top album for me.
Q2K: One of their weaker albums. I wanted to like it a lot more than I do. In fairness, they were struggling to find themselves after DeGarmo left, and I don't hold it against them. It's just that, beyond a few songs, the album doesn't click for me as a whole. But I do enjoy a lot of it every once in a great while.
Tribe: I loved it when it came out, but it lacked staying power. The problems are what I highlighted above. It is just a very inconsistent album. I love Open, Desert Dance, and Art of Life. Doing Fine and the title song are okay, and [controversial opinion warning!] I don't hate Losing Myself. The other songs either bore me to tears or I actively dislike them.
Mindcrime II: Some really, REALLY cool moments, but...the last 1/3 of the album is a hot mess, and is all over the place in terms of quality, and it brings the album down for me. I like it, but wanted to love it. Such a missed opportunity that it feels almost criminal.
I'm not rating the covers album.
American Soldier: VERY good album. It suffers a bit from odd sequencing, with two ballads leading into a final song that may not feel as triumphantly climactic as the subject matter deserves. But I can set that aside. What really gets me is that Geoff's "singing" is really painful to listen to and he almost ruins the album at times. This is SO close to being a favorite, but, as much as I once thought I would never utter these words, Geoff Tate is the weak link and drags the album down.
Dedicated To Chaos: Worst thing they have ever done, and it isn't close. I listened to it twice (second time was just to confirm that it was as bad as I initially thought, and it wasn't just because I wasn't in the right headspace the first time, or anything like that). I will probably never voluntarily listen to ANY song from it ever again. This was the only album I hadn't bought, up to this point, and I refused to until I found it used for a few bucks and bought it just to be a completist.
Queensryche: WOW! What a return to classic form, with a modern sound. LOVE this album! The only slight knocks on it are that, at times, it feels like they hadn't found their feet as a new writing team yet without Tate, and it is too short.
Condition Human: Even better than its predecessor. Best thing they've done since Promised Land, and probably my #3 or #4 overall.
The Verdict: Probably my least favorite of the Todd era, but it has grown on me quite a bit after initially not liking it. Solid album.
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I recently did my ranking:
01. Operation: Mindcrime
02. Rage for Order
03. Empire
04. The Warning
05. Promised Land
06. Condition Hüman
07. The Verdict
08. Queensr˙che
09. Hear in the Now Frontier
10. Operation: Mindcrime II
11. American Soldier
12. Tribe
13. Q2K
14. Dedicated to Chaos
15. Frequency Unknown
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The highlight of that show was Nick D'Virgilio on drums with Fates Warning and Dream Theater playing Metropolis Part II at about twice the speed of the album version so they could finish before the curfew, which I think they went over by like 2 or 3 minutes and ended up paying a $30,000 fine for it.
Just a clarification: it was Metropolis part 1 that they sped up, and the point where they went over by 3 minutes and got docked for $30,000 was for the Score show. ;)
I always do that for some reason :lol :facepalm:
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***snipped***
Queensryche: WOW! What a return to classic form, with a modern sound. LOVE this album! The only slight knocks on it are that, at times, it feels like they hadn't found their feet as a new writing team yet without Tate, and it is too short.
Condition Human: Even better than its predecessor. Best thing they've done since Promised Land, and probably my #3 or #4 overall.
The Verdict: Probably my least favorite of the Todd era, but it has grown on me quite a bit after initially not liking it. Solid album.
Agree on all points here. The last 3 albums for me harkened back to the Rage for Order era big time.
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Since we are discussing a past album, I'll go ahead and briefly give me thoughts on each one. But my order will be a bit...unconventional, for reasons that will make sense below.
Mindcrime: Queensryche was not on my radar. I had seen the random add here and there in Hit Parader or Circus, but hadn't heard them, and didn't really know anything about them. When I was in the Marine Corps, a guy that learned that I liked hard rock gave me a copy of Mindcrime to listen to. At first, it didn't take. It was just a bit too...out there for me. But I didn't dislike what I was hearing either, and some of it wasn't bad. Then I saw a cover band in a little club cover I Don't Believe In Love. In fact, they played it TWICE. And that made me revisit the album. A lot. And this time, it did click. I started listening to it quite a bit.
Empire: When Empire came out, the pump had been sufficiently primed. I bought it, loved it, and played it to death. Many a lonely night in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait during the Gulf War had this album or Mother Love Bone's Apple playing on my headphones. When I got back, I saw them on this tour with Suicidal Tendencies opening, and them playing Mindcrime in its entirety. Total game changer. I had a new favorite band. I began to explore the back catalog from here.
EP: I really liked The Lady Wore Black, but the rest was so-so to me. It wasn't until I heard version of a lot of these songs on Live In Tokyo later that I REALLY appreciated them.
Warning: Didn't really care for it as a whole, but there are a lot of strong tracks.
Rage: Really experimental and cool. This album is all over the place, and I really liked (and still do like) that.
Promised Land: A slow grower, but this one competes with Empire for my top spot, depending on mood. I Am I and Damaged are amazing. But the lack of heaviness really through me at first and left me wanting more. Gradually, I began to appreciate the album for what it is, and loved getting lost in the atmosphere and the head space of it.
Hear in the Now Frontier: I don't know anyone who loves this album as much as I do. It is different for them, but it totally worked for me. For a long time, this was a band that could adopt things into their music that reflected a particular style without being that particular style. I like that the stripped-down, simple nature of the album reflected the grunge movement without being grunge, and was done in a very QR style. To this day, his is a top album for me.
Q2K: One of their weaker albums. I wanted to like it a lot more than I do. In fairness, they were struggling to find themselves after DeGarmo left, and I don't hold it against them. It's just that, beyond a few songs, the album doesn't click for me as a whole. But I do enjoy a lot of it every once in a great while.
Tribe: I loved it when it came out, but it lacked staying power. The problems are what I highlighted above. It is just a very inconsistent album. I love Open, Desert Dance, and Art of Life. Doing Fine and the title song are okay, and [controversial opinion warning!] I don't hate Losing Myself. The other songs either bore me to tears or I actively dislike them.
Mindcrime II: Some really, REALLY cool moments, but...the last 1/3 of the album is a hot mess, and is all over the place in terms of quality, and it brings the album down for me. I like it, but wanted to love it. Such a missed opportunity that it feels almost criminal.
I'm not rating the covers album.
American Soldier: VERY good album. It suffers a bit from odd sequencing, with two ballads leading into a final song that may not feel as triumphantly climactic as the subject matter deserves. But I can set that aside. What really gets me is that Geoff's "singing" is really painful to listen to and he almost ruins the album at times. This is SO close to being a favorite, but, as much as I once thought I would never utter these words, Geoff Tate is the weak link and drags the album down.
Dedicated To Chaos: Worst thing they have ever done, and it isn't close. I listened to it twice (second time was just to confirm that it was as bad as I initially thought, and it wasn't just because I wasn't in the right headspace the first time, or anything like that). I will probably never voluntarily listen to ANY song from it ever again. This was the only album I hadn't bought, up to this point, and I refused to until I found it used for a few bucks and bought it just to be a completist.
Queensryche: WOW! What a return to classic form, with a modern sound. LOVE this album! The only slight knocks on it are that, at times, it feels like they hadn't found their feet as a new writing team yet without Tate, and it is too short.
Condition Human: Even better than its predecessor. Best thing they've done since Promised Land, and probably my #3 or #4 overall.
The Verdict: Probably my least favorite of the Todd era, but it has grown on me quite a bit after initially not liking it. Solid album.
Im a HUGE fan of HITNF also Boss I really love it, no clue why others dont , really was a a great Chris/Geoff colab with Geoff letting Chris do his thing and what he wanted to do, some claimed Geoff wasnt behind the effort but he was totally, also loved that tour even though it was bittersweet and we all knew it ending
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Im a HUGE fan of HITNF also Boss I really love it, no clue why others dont , really was a a great Chris/Geoff colab with Geoff letting Chris do his thing and what he wanted to do, some claimed Geoff wasnt behind the effort but he was totally, also loved that tour even though it was bittersweet and we all knew it ending
I can't say I don't get why a lot don't like it. There's no denying that it is a pretty big departure from their classic sound. So I can see how it would have thrown a lot of people for a loop. But as I said, I really do like it a lot.
I wish I had seen that tour. Can't remember exactly why I missed it, but the scheduling did not work out for whatever reason.
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Im a HUGE fan of HITNF also Boss I really love it, no clue why others dont , really was a a great Chris/Geoff colab with Geoff letting Chris do his thing and what he wanted to do, some claimed Geoff wasnt behind the effort but he was totally, also loved that tour even though it was bittersweet and we all knew it ending
I can't say I don't get why a lot don't like it. There's no denying that it is a pretty big departure from their classic sound. So I can see how it would have thrown a lot of people for a loop. But as I said, I really do like it a lot.
I wish I had seen that tour. Can't remember exactly why I missed it, but the scheduling did not work out for whatever reason.
I agree Boss... Chris and Geoff always made it known that they were into change and doing what they felt, and to me that was what they made them even more special, I think HINTF is so timeless and tells the story of Chris knowing he was leaving , I know it hurt Chris when the fans in general didnt like or embrace it, part of me thinks he knew it wouldnt be embraced and lessen the sting of his life changing and leaving music, I think Geoff knew that also and gave in to Chris to
do what he felt on that album, Geoff always spoke of leaving the door open for chris to come back soon if he changed his mind and career path, amazing how long ago that was and it feels like yesterday
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I'll say something truly controversial here, but I like a lot Hear in the Now Frontier... as much as I like Promised Land :o. Considering the pros and cons from both albums, that's what I feel, in terms of how much I enjoy to listen to those albums. In the end, I think I consider HITNF a lot better than the majority here and, although I like a lot Promised Land, I don't consider it closer to any of QR's masterpiece (I think O:M and Empire are). The EP I consider cool, but a bit of a proto-QR and I put Warning above PL/HITNF, Rage above Warning and just a bit below Empire and O:M.
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I forget the timing now. Did he say he was leaving back during the writing? I seem to remember it being toward the end of the tour, but I may be misremembering. (I do remember Eddie's spoof post on their website on April 1, 1999 saying he felt a moral obligation to leave the band and go research solutions to the upcoming global Y2K "problem")
What are your memories from the tour? Again, that is one that I regret not catching in person. I wish they at least released a DVD.
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bosk,
There was no official announcement he left Queensryche until early 1998. The band, however, knew Fall 1997. They played their last dates in South American in December 1997, knowing those were Chris' final shows.
re: Tribe
The album is, after almost 20 years, hit and miss. I think the DeGarmo-involved/recorded tracks (Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine, Art of Life and later, Justified) are good, and continue that evolution from where he was on HITNF as a writer. Art of Life and Falling Behind have really stood the test of time for me.
The non-DeGarmo-involved tracks, Tribe, Losing Myself, Rhythm of Hope, Blood, and The Great Divide are also pretty good, with the exception of Losing Myself, which is for my money, one of the worst songs with Queensryche's name on it (co-written by Mike Stone/Geoff Tate). Blood is unfinished -- it's missing a second guitar part that DeGarmo was going to add. The Great Divide was also unfinished, missing a solo, which Wilton added on the Tribe headline tour. I like that song. The title track is great, and Rhythm of Hope is pretty good too.
Overall, I like it. But I tend to split the album, as I feel the DeGarmo tracks really sound like one band, and the other tracks sound like another. But that's just me.
re: Tribe tour
I saw the tour (which went through Fall 2003) five times. Twice as a co-headliner with Dream Theater (both Northern California dates), and then three times as a headliner (Cupertino, Ventura, which are in California, and then Westbury, which is on Long Island). I thoroughly enjoyed the tour. The Westbury date in particular was great. 20+ songs, they played a lot of my favorites, and in soundcheck they played Anybody Listening, which was the first time I had seen personally seen it performed. They had really started branching out on that headline run, adding various songs into the set list. Della Brown was at that show too, which was cool.
re: HITNF
The album has really grown on me over time. It still has a lot of filler, but I'd probably argue it is a real good 8-track deep album. I've really come to appreciate just how DeGarmo was evolving as a writer on it, and all the guitar ear candy. It's just not guitar in a classic metal sense. And that's okay.
I wrote a little something back in October about the similarities I hear between Hear in the Now Frontier and Soundgarden's Down on the Upside. Check it out here - https://anybodylistening.net/downontherycheside.html
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I forget the timing now. Did he say he was leaving back during the writing? I seem to remember it being toward the end of the tour, but I may be misremembering. (I do remember Eddie's spoof post on their website on April 1, 1999 saying he felt a moral obligation to leave the band and go research solutions to the upcoming global Y2K "problem")
What are your memories from the tour? Again, that is one that I regret not catching in person. I wish they at least released a DVD.
my memories were of knowing that Chris was leaving, it was stunning, you could feel it at times. I remember thinking that the band seemed lost as a unit, Chris was quite quiet , for some reason I felt Geoff was ready to do his thing, as he was dressing in suits and just had this odd wardrobe and hair. it felt like the unit had broken they had become "old". they played great, Geoff sounded really good and I remember thinking they are using some people fly as the final encore and it hit me that it was over .
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I'll say something truly controversial here, but I like a lot Hear in the Now Frontier... as much as I like Promised Land :o. Considering the pros and cons from both albums, that's what I feel, in terms of how much I enjoy to listen to those albums. In the end, I think I consider HITNF a lot better than the majority here and, although I like a lot Promised Land, I don't consider it closer to any of QR's masterpiece (I think O:M and Empire are). The EP I consider cool, but a bit of a proto-QR and I put Warning above PL/HITNF, Rage above Warning and just a bit below Empire and O:M.
I dont consider that controversial at all, I tend to agree
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I'll say something truly controversial here, but I like a lot Hear in the Now Frontier... as much as I like Promised Land :o. Considering the pros and cons from both albums, that's what I feel, in terms of how much I enjoy to listen to those albums. In the end, I think I consider HITNF a lot better than the majority here and, although I like a lot Promised Land, I don't consider it closer to any of QR's masterpiece (I think O:M and Empire are). The EP I consider cool, but a bit of a proto-QR and I put Warning above PL/HITNF, Rage above Warning and just a bit below Empire and O:M.
I dont consider that controversial at all, I tend to agree
Half of Hear is ok but badly produced so it sucks the life out of the songs. I really couldn’t get into it back in the day, but who would have thought that it was only going to be downhill from there?
I can only think of a couple of other bands that I loved that went downhill so fast.
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@Samsara:
Yeah, the difference in writing is definitely apparent between DeGarmo being involved and him not being involved. For my personal tastes, I obviously don't split it quite along those lines. The ones I like best are mostly his. But I had forgotten about Great Divide. I would add that one as well. So, I should say, I love Open, Desert Dance, Art of Life, and The Great Divide.
Doin' Fine is pretty good. I never really liked Justified all that much, and I feel like it was the right decision to leave it off the album.
I get the hate for Losing Myself. I really do. For me, I just always thought it was just an odd, quirky song, and I can appreciate it as such. It's not a favorite by any stretch. But it's fine for what it is.
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@Samsara:
Yeah, the difference in writing is definitely apparent between DeGarmo being involved and him not being involved. For my personal tastes, I obviously don't split it quite along those lines. The ones I like best are mostly his. But I had forgotten about Great Divide. I would add that one as well. So, I should say, I love Open, Desert Dance, Art of Life, and The Great Divide.
Doin' Fine is pretty good. I never really liked Justified all that much, and I feel like it was the right decision to leave it off the album.
I get the hate for Losing Myself. I really do. For me, I just always thought it was just an odd, quirky song, and I can appreciate it as such. It's not a favorite by any stretch. But it's fine for what it is.
agreed.. I like Losing Myself, its a fine song it has that odd quirky break in it but other than that its pretty straight forward
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I'll say something truly controversial here, but I like a lot Hear in the Now Frontier... as much as I like Promised Land :o. Considering the pros and cons from both albums, that's what I feel, in terms of how much I enjoy to listen to those albums. In the end, I think I consider HITNF a lot better than the majority here and, although I like a lot Promised Land, I don't consider it closer to any of QR's masterpiece (I think O:M and Empire are). The EP I consider cool, but a bit of a proto-QR and I put Warning above PL/HITNF, Rage above Warning and just a bit below Empire and O:M.
I dont consider that controversial at all, I tend to agree
Half of Hear is ok but badly produced so it sucks the life out of the songs. I really couldn’t get into it back in the day, but who would have thought that it was only going to be downhill from there?
I can only think of a couple of other bands that I loved that went downhill so fast.
I dont know bro most bands dont make it 30+ years or so and most bands just do formula for the fan base that demands more of the same. I never saw it as "going down" I viewed it all as extra gravy after HITNF and they always were awesome live or shall I say a very interesting show until Tates departure , now I see them going back to formula to appease IMO
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About QR going downhill after HITNF (or PL) or just wanting to make different albums: I don't think QR continued to evolve after Chris departure, I just think the albums shaped its sound accordingly the music writers that Geoff recruited at time, but I don't think they had a goal to evolve musically from album to album (which it seemed the case of their classic period). O:M2 is totally nostalgic and it's a good album as American Soldier (and this one with more creativity). No doubt, these albums are the best from Tater˙che era IMO. Despite Chris's presence, I don't think Tribe is at the same level of any album from the classic period. The LaTorre albums, although I agree are less creative in style and kind of nostalgic, rank to me around the level of EP, Warning, PL and HITNF and better than all Tater˙che era, because the quality of the music.
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About QR going downhill after HITNF (or PL) or just wanting to make different albums: I don't think QR continued to evolve after Chris departure, I just think the albums shaped its sound accordingly the music writers that Geoff recruited at time, but I don't think they had a goal to evolve musically from album to album (which it seemed the case of their classic period). O:M2 is totally nostalgic and it's a good album as American Soldier (and this one with more creativity). No doubt, these albums are the best from Tater˙che era IMO. Despite Chris's presence, I don't think Tribe is at the same level of any album from the classic period. The LaTorre albums, although I agree are less creative in style and kind of nostalgic, rank to me around the level of EP, Warning, PL and HITNF and better than all Tater˙che era, because the quality of the music.
Well, I don't think "they" were trying to evolve musically because "they" weren't really involved with the direction of the band and music in later years. I do think they tried to take the music somewhere new with Q2K, but they had a new writing partner, and were learning and experimenting with where they could go with him. With Chris temporarily back in the fold, and then out again and Stone in, you get an album in Tribe that is disjointed, but still feels to me like QR trying to take their sound in a new direction that is heavily influenced by their prior work AND the dark, stripped down sound of the late '90s and early '00s. But after that, the rest of the band is largely disconnected from the writing, and it is just Geoff and whoever he has as a writing partner. Slater, at times, was able to really tap into the QR vibe (to his credit). But, yeah, what you said is true, and there is a reason for it.
You don't really have the band together as a cohesive writing team again until the LaTorre albums. And, as you said, they aren't overly "creative" or trying to go somewhere new. They are largely "classic QR with a modern edge." And that's fine. I think that's a product of both where they want to be, and lack of a writer than wants to and can take them in a different direction.
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Half of Hear is ok but badly produced so it sucks the life out of the songs. I really couldn’t get into it back in the day, but who would have thought that it was only going to be downhill from there?
I can only think of a couple of other bands that I loved that went downhill so fast.
I agree with this take. Hear in the Now Frontier isn't that bad in a vacuum, but as the follow-up to Promised Land, it was a massive letdown, and the mix really hurts it. I do think the album overall might have been better with a good mix, but as is, it's a tough listen. The mix is so dry and lifeless.
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Half of Hear is ok but badly produced so it sucks the life out of the songs. I really couldn’t get into it back in the day, but who would have thought that it was only going to be downhill from there?
I can only think of a couple of other bands that I loved that went downhill so fast.
I agree with this take. Hear in the Now Frontier isn't that bad in a vacuum, but as the follow-up to Promised Land, it was a massive letdown, and the mix really hurts it. I do think the album overall might have been better with a good mix, but as is, it's a tough listen. The mix is so dry and lifeless.
the mix never bothered me but I agree PL sounded immense and pristine
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About QR going downhill after HITNF (or PL) or just wanting to make different albums: I don't think QR continued to evolve after Chris departure, I just think the albums shaped its sound accordingly the music writers that Geoff recruited at time, but I don't think they had a goal to evolve musically from album to album (which it seemed the case of their classic period). O:M2 is totally nostalgic and it's a good album as American Soldier (and this one with more creativity). No doubt, these albums are the best from Tater˙che era IMO. Despite Chris's presence, I don't think Tribe is at the same level of any album from the classic period. The LaTorre albums, although I agree are less creative in style and kind of nostalgic, rank to me around the level of EP, Warning, PL and HITNF and better than all Tater˙che era, because the quality of the music.
Well, I don't think "they" were trying to evolve musically because "they" weren't really involved with the direction of the band and music in later years. I do think they tried to take the music somewhere new with Q2K, but they had a new writing partner, and were learning and experimenting with where they could go with him. With Chris temporarily back in the fold, and then out again and Stone in, you get an album in Tribe that is disjointed, but still feels to me like QR trying to take their sound in a new direction that is heavily influenced by their prior work AND the dark, stripped down sound of the late '90s and early '00s. But after that, the rest of the band is largely disconnected from the writing, and it is just Geoff and whoever he has as a writing partner. Slater, at times, was able to really tap into the QR vibe (to his credit). But, yeah, what you said is true, and there is a reason for it.
You don't really have the band together as a cohesive writing team again until the LaTorre albums. And, as you said, they aren't overly "creative" or trying to go somewhere new. They are largely "classic QR with a modern edge." And that's fine. I think that's a product of both where they want to be, and lack of a writer than wants to and can take them in a different direction.
I agree...
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Tribe: I loved it when it came out, but it lacked staying power. The problems are what I highlighted above. It is just a very inconsistent album. I love Open, Desert Dance, and Art of Life. Doing Fine and the title song are okay, and [controversial opinion warning!] I don't hate Losing Myself. The other songs either bore me to tears or I actively dislike them.
I'm not sure why you'd think that's a controversial opinion. Losing Myself is a good song and I thought it was a promising sign for the future at the time... hey ho.
Tribe's a solid album (shame about Blood, though) but it feels slightly lobotimised somehow, but then I thought the same of Promised Land and Hear In The Now Frontier. I do really like all three but they're not up to the standard they'd set previously.
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Count me in as a fan who LOVED HITNF upon release.
I was 17 at the time, and honestly, to me it sounded like a fresh detour from what they'd been doing. I loved every QR album, but I was also a huge fan of punk, alt-rock, and lo-fi indie music, so I was game for a 'rawer' sounding QR album.
Had it been the sonic detour I'd assumed it to be, one where the band would return to a more glossy sound with their next album, I suspect that it would be better remembered by the masses. Unfortunately, for me, it marked the beginning of the end.
There's a little something to like on nearly every post-HITNF release, but there is not a single album I consider to be on par with the 'golden' years.
that being said, HITNF still sounds great to me, and there's a few amazing tracks ('Sign of the Times,' 'The Voice Inside,' 'Hero,' & 'Spool') that I consider to be amongst the band's best material.
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There's a little something to like on nearly every post-HITNF release, but there is not a single album I consider to be on par with the 'golden' years.
Back that up to include HITNF (and arguably Promised Land for a lot of folks), and I agree with you. After Empire, the band's output with Geoff Tate is best consumed if you view them not as albums, but as a collection of songs, and just cherry-pick the songs you consider to be good.
(Promised Land)
HITNF
Q2K
Tribe
O:M II
American Soldier
Dedicated to Chaos
Take the 4-5 songs you enjoy from each album (sometimes less, sometimes more) and ignore the rest.
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Honestly, I think you can say that about most any band. At least I can.
I mean, for me, QR's "golden years" were The Warning through Promised Land. But with the exception of Mindcrime, which is flawless to me, I think every album has three or four tracks that stand out from the rest. Doesn't mean the albums as a listening experience are bad or unbalanced just because there are some tracks that rise to the top, but for me at least, that's pretty much par for the course with any band I really love - Queensryche's original lineup, Fates Warning, Alter Bridge, Sevendust, 90s Dream Theater, etc.
Even on Dedicated to Chaos, which is the most difficult record to find SOMETHING, I at least like "At the Edge."
Overall, Queensryche is like any other band that had the chance to grow (which is different nowadays, as bands aren't "allowed" to have that growth). They have a period of growth, a creative peak, and then periods of continued change where they evolve. At that point, either their evolution continues to be loved by many, or they gain new fans and lose existing ones.
For me though, in complete retrospect, I will always say that Queensryche had a very defined songwriting evolution within their original configuration. With Chris emerging as the chief music writer, as the band gravitated away from metal, which was Wilton's passion.
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I don't listen to any of those albums, they're useless to me. Beginning with Promised Land, perhaps the single most overrated metal album in history and it just went steadily downhill from there until the comeback with Todd. So for me I listen to The Warning >> Empire and the last 3 albums with Todd and have zero interest in any of the other stuff. I do hope they keep going with Todd, although with the recent lineup changes I'm not so sure how good any future material will actually, I will buy the next one on the strength of the last 3 without hearing a note. But if they veer back in the same direction they were heading in prior to Todd joining, I'm out.
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I don't listen to any of those albums, they're useless to me. Beginning with Promised Land, perhaps the single most overrated metal album in history
Promised Land wasn't a metal album. And neither was Empire.
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Update from Todd on the Scott situation and he says Casey deserves to play on the next album.
https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/04/23/queensryches-todd-la-torre-on-estranged-drummer-scott-rockenfield-i-have-no-idea-what-hes-doing/
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So this happened. Not sure what to think
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/scott-rockenfield-launches-queensryche-2021-web-site-says-he-is-ready-to-rock/
https://www.queensryche2021.com/
:-\
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The soap opera continues.
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WTF??
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Yikes.
Here's hoping whatever the hell is going on, it gets sorted out quickly. Such a mess for a once iconic band.
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Oh BTW, I spun The Verdict the other day.. That album is fantastic.
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Best case scenario.....Scott, Chris and Geoff have reformed......worst case is there now 3 different QR bands and the band is officially a complete joke without any debate
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Best case scenario.....Scott, Chris and Geoff have reformed......worst case is there now 3 different QR bands and the band is officially a complete joke without any debate
There would be 2 (again) :laugh:
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So this happened. Not sure what to think
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/scott-rockenfield-launches-queensryche-2021-web-site-says-he-is-ready-to-rock/
https://www.queensryche2021.com/
:-\
bruhahahha...
:mehlin
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Oh BTW, I spun The Verdict the other day.. That album is fantastic.
It is a very good and honest record.
Of the five QR guys only Michael and Eddie are doing anything relevant musically.
Chris has retired, Geoff is unable to make a good record and Scott has not made a coherent statement in four years.
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Best case scenario.....Scott, Chris and Geoff have reformed......worst case is there now 3 different QR bands and the band is officially a complete joke without any debate
There would be 2 (again) :laugh:
Lol who knows anymore, I only listen to the EP- Hear in the Now Frontier and don’t bother with anything QR related beyond that
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So this happened. Not sure what to think
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/scott-rockenfield-launches-queensryche-2021-web-site-says-he-is-ready-to-rock/
https://www.queensryche2021.com/
:-\
You know if Scott has genuine grievances with the band he should just tell his side of the story and get it over with. Especially since we have no reason to doubt the "He went on paternity leave and just never came back" story that the band has been saying. This cryptic bullshit will do nothing but harm the bands reputation and make him look childish IMO.
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Yikes.
Here's hoping whatever the hell is going on, it gets sorted out quickly. Such a mess for a once iconic band.
Worst cast scenario... You have to hold your book back to write the new last chapter you never wanted to write.
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If anyone knows where Scott lives, can you call the cops and have them perform a safety check? He seems to have lost his mind.
Truly bizarre.
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Anyone take the plunge and enter an email?
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Anyone take the plunge and enter an email?
Haha, I did think about it for a split second, then was like, nah!
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You know what..fuck Scott Rockenfield.
Maybe it comes out in the wash that the dude got fucked over by QR, Tate..whoever, and I'll eat my words.
But he has come across as nothing but a fucking douche.
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You know what..fuck Scott Rockenfield.
Maybe it comes out in the wash that the dude got fucked over by QR, Tate..whoever, and I'll eat my words.
But he has come across as nothing but a fucking douche.
So, that makes, what, two of the original five members f'ing douches (Rockenfield and Tate)? :lol :lol
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It might make even more, who knows.
But I do like the Todd LaTorre albums.
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Yikes.
Here's hoping whatever the hell is going on, it gets sorted out quickly. Such a mess for a once iconic band.
Worst cast scenario... You have to hold your book back to write the new last chapter you never wanted to write.
That was my first thought!
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Anyone take the plunge and enter an email?
I did. I can't wait to find out what kind of shit show awaits all of us.
If he's not rejoining Wilton and Jackson, he should just stay home. We don't need a third Ryche. Yep. I went there. Sorry/ Not Sorry.
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You know what..fuck Scott Rockenfield.
Maybe it comes out in the wash that the dude got fucked over by QR, Tate..whoever, and I'll eat my words.
But he has come across as nothing but a fucking douche.
I tend to agree. I met the TLT version of the band backstage in Melbourne a few years back and , although none of them were what I would call enthusiastic (I think Wilton and Jackson are just shy guys) , Rockenfield gave off the vibe of really,really wanting to be somewhere else. I could speculate as to why but yeah.........
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You know what..fuck Scott Rockenfield.
Maybe it comes out in the wash that the dude got fucked over by QR, Tate..whoever, and I'll eat my words.
But he has come across as nothing but a fucking douche.
Yeah, same with me. He's making himself look like a real fuckwit.
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well since Scott is a Founding member ( snickering....LOL ) he is QR LOL ... so lets say he gets Kelly and Stone and a new singer and bass player,its as QR as the other QRs under the new math of what is QR? if Tate can then by new math is equal to 3 Founding Members himself can get Chris he wins in a landslide the "Who is your QR derby" Tate can win with a Kelly or Stone move also,...
The drama as always beats any output by QR minus Tate IMO I repeat IMO LOL
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Is it possible we might be reading too much into this? What if Scott is rejoining the current Queensryche incarnation and spent time making a website during the paternity leave? On the other hand, if that were true, I doubt Todd would have said he had no idea what Scott had been doing for years.
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Who is Scott Rockenfield?
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Is it possible we might be reading too much into this? What if Scott is rejoining the current Queensryche incarnation and spent time making a website during the paternity leave? On the other hand, if that were true, I doubt Todd would have said he had no idea what Scott had been doing for years.
If he has spent 4 years making that website, then the man has wasted his time :rollin
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Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
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Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
Was it Tate himself who scored? :lol
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Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
Was it Tate himself who scored? :lol
Not excactly But the math is very objective to a fan from 1982 and their hits
-
Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
Was it Tate himself who scored? :lol
Not excactly But the math is very objective to a fan from 1982 and their hits
(https://media.tenor.com/images/52cc7e767d5740bd3e4982da43e4869b/tenor.gif)
-
Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
Was it Tate himself who scored? :lol
Not excactly But the math is very objective to a fan from 1982 and their hits
(https://media.tenor.com/images/52cc7e767d5740bd3e4982da43e4869b/tenor.gif)
Their aint one old time fan or casual fan that can argue much with that scoring ,,,now the game is to build YOUR QR, the math is sorta fun LOL
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When mathematics is objective (that is, always), the mathematician's old age is irrelevant. :biggrin:
-
Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
:rollin :rollin
I'm going to buy the Color Form version.
Who the hell is Scott Moughton and how is he more points than Casey Grillo?
-
Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
:rollin :rollin
I'm going to buy the Color Form version.
Who the hell is Scott Moughton and how is he more points than Casey Grillo?
Apparently, he's a Seattle guitarist who played on Tate's 2002 solo album, falsely claimed to be a part of QR and, in 2008, was sentenced to 6 years in prison for 10 counts of ID theft and forgery-related charges. Should be a "0", too.
-
The Internet, Ladies and Gentlemen :lol
-
Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
:rollin :rollin
I'm going to buy the Color Form version.
Who the hell is Scott Moughton and how is he more points than Casey Grillo?
Apparently, he's a Seattle guitarist who played on Tate's 2002 solo album, falsely claimed to be a part of QR and, in 2008, was sentenced to 6 years in prison for 10 counts of ID theft and forgery-related charges. Should be a "0", too.
hes been touring with Tate on and off and is very talented, has more QR cred than Casey
-
Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
:rollin :rollin
I'm going to buy the Color Form version.
Who the hell is Scott Moughton and how is he more points than Casey Grillo?
: )
-
The Internet, Ladies and Gentlemen :lol
LOL : )
-
The Internet, Ladies and Gentlemen :lol
:rollin
-
Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
:rollin :rollin
I'm going to buy the Color Form version.
Who the hell is Scott Moughton and how is he more points than Casey Grillo?
This completely irrelevant guy has (objectively) the same score as Eddie Jackson. :lol
That's amazing!
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I really pray that Scott ( aka founding member lol) starts his own QR... if he can get Stone and say Jackson is that more QR than Todd, Wilton and Parker. or Geoff with Moughton and Kelly,
add em up and we what do we have? what is your DREAM QR?
Scott QR: 7
Todd QR: 8
Geoff QR: 14
-
Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
:rollin :rollin
I'm going to buy the Color Form version.
Who the hell is Scott Moughton and how is he more points than Casey Grillo?
This completely irrelevant guy has (objectively) the same score as Eddie Jackson. :lol
That's amazing!
Exactly you have to remember your scores are judged by CASUAL FANS
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My score:
Geoff Tate: ∞
Chris DeGarmo: 2
Musicians friends of Geoff Tate : 1
Casey Grillo: 0
Musicians unfriends of Geoff Tate: - 1
It seems objectively reasonable. :)
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The drama as always beats any output by QR minus Tate IMO I repeat IMO LOL
When you put Dedicated to Chaos and Frequency Unknown above the TLT albums, you lose all credibility. :-*
But the math is very objective to a fan from 1982 and their hits
As if that means anything. There are many more non-hits from QR that I prefer over most of the crap that Tater was responsible for post-PL.
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Jeez, you certainly can tell it was EPICVIEW who crunched those member number ratings. :lol
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Jeez, you certainly can tell it was EPICVIEW who crunched those member number ratings. :lol
He's deeply invested... :lol
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Worst cast scenario... You have to hold your book back to write the new last chapter you never wanted to write.
Nope. No pushing it back. We are so far ahead in the process (we're done writing, just editing now), if we had to write some copy on whatever thing Scott is doing, it won't be a big deal. I'm hoping we can unveil the cover next month, pre-orders for July (both through the website and stuff on Amazon, etc.). But as for where we are, tomorrow I start editing the book's eighth chapter (the RFO era). So that's your up-to-the-day update. :lol
re: Rockenfield
My fear is this will turn into a Scott Rockenfield's Queensryche thing, ala Bobby Blotzer's Ratt. Just Rockenfield and a bunch of others. That's just speculation. But I sincerely hope that's not the avenue he's going. But if you look, Queensryche has gigs booked, Tate has gigs booked...so I don't see a reunion with either of those parties. As for Chris, I think everyone can see pretty clearly now that he likely wants nothing to do with current QR, Tate, or Rockenfield.
Such an absolute shame and a mess.
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Jeez, you certainly can tell it was EPICVIEW who crunched those member number ratings. :lol
He's deeply invested... :lol
Indeed.
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That scoring system is silly.
As far as picking a lineup, it depends. I mean, are we talking about in terms of our favorite musical output during their prime? I'd go with the classic lineup in a heartbeat. Are we talking about current abilities? If so, I'd probably go with the current lineup. I mean, it's tempting to want Scott back in at drums and Chris back in on guitar. But Scott seems to have gone off the deep end, and I'm not even sure has the desire and motivation do justice to the music, new or old. And I think we all know that, although Chris's head seems screwed on right, wherever his head is, it isn't in making music with QR. And Parker is really great at fitting both their classic sound and their modern sound. So honestly, while the current lineup may not feel "ideal," it is probably the best version of Queensryche possible at the present time.
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So honestly, while the current lineup may not feel "ideal," it is probably the best version of Queensryche possible at the present time.
Their output has been excellent.
-
Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
:rollin :rollin
I'm going to buy the Color Form version.
Who the hell is Scott Moughton and how is he more points than Casey Grillo?
Apparently, he's a Seattle guitarist who played on Tate's 2002 solo album, falsely claimed to be a part of QR and, in 2008, was sentenced to 6 years in prison for 10 counts of ID theft and forgery-related charges. Should be a "0", too.
hes been touring with Tate on and off and is very talented, has more QR cred than Casey
I don't think someone who has never been in QR can have more cred than someone who has been playing with them for years.
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That scoring system is silly.
I was trying to dance around it but you just went there. :lol yeah, it's dumb.
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Honest scoring system
Tate: 6
DeGarmo: 8
Wilton:6
Jackson: 4
Rockenfield: 4
TLT: 4
Everyone else : ZERO
That still gives the current official QR the scoring edge.
/discussion
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That scoring system is silly.
I was trying to dance around it but you just went there. :lol yeah, it's dumb.
It's divest of merit. ;)
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That scoring system is silly.
I was trying to dance around it but you just went there. :lol yeah, it's dumb.
It's divest of merit. ;)
It's a travesty to be honest.
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That scoring system is silly.
I was trying to dance around it but you just went there. :lol yeah, it's dumb.
It's divest of merit. ;)
It's a travesty to be honest.
Nice one! :laugh:
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Make your own REAL Queensryche : Your kit includes figurines with point totals attached , Keep small plastics figurines away from small children due to choking fears
Mix and Match be the first on your block to WIN!
Geoff Tate: 10
Chris DeGarmo : 5
Scott Rockenfield: 3
Ed Jackson: 2
Michael Wilton : 3
Kelly Gray : 2
Mike Stone: 2
Todd Latorre: 3
Parker Lundgren : 2
Scott Moughton: 2
Casey Grillo: 0
:rollin :rollin
I'm going to buy the Color Form version.
Who the hell is Scott Moughton and how is he more points than Casey Grillo?
Apparently, he's a Seattle guitarist who played on Tate's 2002 solo album, falsely claimed to be a part of QR and, in 2008, was sentenced to 6 years in prison for 10 counts of ID theft and forgery-related charges. Should be a "0", too.
hes been touring with Tate on and off and is very talented, has more QR cred than Casey
I don't think someone who has never been in QR can have more cred than someone who has been playing with them for years.
a very valid point Boss,,,,, we will have to refer to the field judges and replay booth ,,, LOL
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My score:
Geoff Tate: ∞
Chris DeGarmo: 2
Musicians friends of Geoff Tate : 1
Casey Grillo: 0
Musicians unfriends of Geoff Tate: - 1
It seems objectively reasonable. :)
You used New Math so be it LOL
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Honest scoring system
Tate: 6
DeGarmo: 8
Wilton:6
Jackson: 4
Rockenfield: 4
TLT: 4
Everyone else : ZERO
That still gives the current official QR the scoring edge.
/discussion
the only flash point is Chris Most were down on him when he left and as we see his music when he feels motivated is grungy folksy I dont see him ever returning , I see your point as far as a draw and interest it would be amazing and he was the leader musically before leaving
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That scoring system is silly.
As far as picking a lineup, it depends. I mean, are we talking about in terms of our favorite musical output during their prime? I'd go with the classic lineup in a heartbeat. Are we talking about current abilities? If so, I'd probably go with the current lineup. I mean, it's tempting to want Scott back in at drums and Chris back in on guitar. But Scott seems to have gone off the deep end, and I'm not even sure has the desire and motivation do justice to the music, new or old. And I think we all know that, although Chris's head seems screwed on right, wherever his head is, it isn't in making music with QR. And Parker is really great at fitting both their classic sound and their modern sound. So honestly, while the current lineup may not feel "ideal," it is probably the best version of Queensryche possible at the present time.
I agree that Toddryche is the most polished unit but Tates been coming on strong,,, me I love the underdog so Im pulling for the NEW SCOTTYRYCHE. I want 3 QRS Im greedy LOL
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That scoring system is silly.
I was trying to dance around it but you just went there. :lol yeah, it's dumb.
It's divest of merit. ;)
It's a travesty to be honest.
It's a shamockery.
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Jeez, you certainly can tell it was EPICVIEW who crunched those member number ratings. :lol
The math was roughed out over a turkey club sandwich,,,, Science at all costs
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...and make him look childish IMO.
Quite...
"R ya READY TO F***in' ROCK !!!?? ....I AM !!!!!!! -- bruhahahha..."
He's nearly 60.
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That scoring system is silly.
I was trying to dance around it but you just went there. :lol yeah, it's dumb.
It's divest of merit. ;)
It's a travesty to be honest.
It's a shamockery.
You need to harvest the last vestige eric42434224!
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A scoring system should count the official albums each member has appeared on.
MP and Charlie Dominici for DT should count 11. And that is still wrong 'cause obviously Dominici was with MP in the band so his album overlaps with one of MP's ten.
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...and make him look childish IMO.
Quite...
"R ya READY TO F***in' ROCK !!!?? ....I AM !!!!!!! -- bruhahahha..."
He's nearly 60.
The part that's puzzling me the most is the evil laugh at the end.
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*IF* this is a 3rd QR (I hope not) then he’s completely delusional.
It would have been bad enough if he had tried it before Geoff did. But if you don’t recognize that your dwindling fan base has already lost tons of respect for “the brand” because of drama, and subsequently decide to create MORE drama, then you have no business being in the music business.
This is either tone deaf or vindictive (I.e. purposefully trying to undermine TLT/MW/EJ). Either way, it’s distasteful and deeply disappointing.
But if it is hinting that he’s just returning to the fold, then cancel everything I just said
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*IF* this is a 3rd QR (I hope not) then he’s completely delusional.
It would have been bad enough if he had tried it before Geoff did. But if you don’t recognize that your dwindling fan base has already lost tons of respect for “the brand” because of drama, and subsequently decide to create MORE drama, then you have no business being in the music business.
This is either tone deaf or vindictive (I.e. purposefully trying to undermine TLT/MW/EJ). Either way, it’s distasteful and deeply disappointing.
But if it is hinting that he’s just returning to the fold, then cancel everything I just said
This. I am really hoping that this is simply his (admittadly weird) way of saying, "hey, guys...I'm back!"
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But if it is hinting that he’s just returning to the fold, then cancel everything I just said
This. I am really hoping that this is simply his (admittadly weird) way of saying, "hey, guys...I'm back!"
But he wouldn't have built a website for this. Why the website? I'm thinking it's some sort of band. Maybe Scott Rockenfeld's Queensryche? Kind of like Great White (Jack Russell's GW). Scott has a website for his scoring and Rockenwraps. I'm not sure if he still does this though.
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It would be awesome if Scott does what Dave Grohl did and become the frontman of QR3
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I'm preaching to the choir here, but it REALLY devalues a band's name when they "branch out" like that. Queensryche, LA Guns, Great White...it makes me not want to check out any of the iterations of these bands going forward.
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I'm preaching to the choir here, but it REALLY devalues a band's name when they "branch out" like that. Queensryche, LA Guns, Great White...it makes me not want to check out any of the iterations of these bands going forward.
I dont think they care at this point. the money will be made touring as none of them can survive on album sales. sure does look like Tate got the best deal and cashed out at the right time in retrospect.
what if Scott gets Tate back, and say Kelly and Stone and Tate can now tour under the QR name since Scott can use the QR name . I love the drama and possibilities. Id actually go see that, I have to say I really thought Tates last few bands doing RFO and Empire etc sounded really good to my ears. Toddryche is simply not for me and many others who just dont get the QR vibe on the new material they put out and feel its to contrived to sounds like the early QR , also Casey cost less to pay to tour than Scott would get , Its a real messy situation.
If Scott can bring that Moby , Lady GaGa feel to QR3 that would be really special : )
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I imagine the possibility of how much crap Tate and Kelly can still do together! :lol
All those pitiful records were not enough!
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I have to say I really thought Tates last few bands doing RFO and Empire etc sounded really good to my ears.
I would love to hear these records with Todd. And this is where I think the current QR kind of shot themselves on the foot by not jumping ahead of Tate and touring the new stuff along with the old stuff. I get that the current lineup wanted to do their own thing. But imo, that was huge miss. And I give credit to Tate for capitalizing that. I hope I get to see Tate perform RFO and Empire once touring resumes.
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I imagine the possibility of how much crap Tate and Kelly can still do together! :lol
All those pitiful records were not enough!
They sold about as well as Toddryche... many of us enjoyed those albums as we saw QR back in 82 and all the early tours and were fine with the journey into adults musically, Id find it sorta uncomfortable to "be kid again" and see Toddsryche screaming stuff on the old songs, it just feels stale and pathetic and not the QR evolution IMO
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I have to say I really thought Tates last few bands doing RFO and Empire etc sounded really good to my ears.
I would love to hear these records with Todd. And this is where I think the current QR kind of shot themselves on the foot by not jumping ahead of Tate and touring the new stuff along with the old stuff. I get that the current lineup wanted to do their own thing. But imo, that was huge miss. And I give credit to Tate for capitalizing that. I hope I get to see Tate perform RFO and Empire once touring resumes.
why would you want those songs that are from Tates mind to be performed by Todd? may I ask your age? Im 57
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I imagine the possibility of how much crap Tate and Kelly can still do together! :lol
All those pitiful records were not enough!
This. I’m usually pretty forgiving and loyal once I get into an artist. I’m one of the biggest Lulu apologists on this entire forum. But QRs dysfunction has made Metallica seem downright normal. It’s like Metallica is a slightly controversial episode of Survivor, while QR went straight for Kardasian territory, and then when that burned to the ground, they doubled down into Tiger King territory. It’s just ridiculous at this point.
I’m honestly questioning whether anyone but Todd is actually interested in music at all.
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I have to say I really thought Tates last few bands doing RFO and Empire etc sounded really good to my ears.
I would love to hear these records with Todd. And this is where I think the current QR kind of shot themselves on the foot by not jumping ahead of Tate and touring the new stuff along with the old stuff. I get that the current lineup wanted to do their own thing. But imo, that was huge miss. And I give credit to Tate for capitalizing that. I hope I get to see Tate perform RFO and Empire once touring resumes.
why would you want those songs that are from Tates mind to be performed by Todd? may I ask your age? Im 57
40
I think Todd does relatively well with the old material.
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I think TLT does better than ok. I’m 51, and I think TLT is not as good as Tate in his prime, but he’s worlds better than Tate today.
I don’t want to see TLT re-record the old stuff, but I do think they are slightly over focused on the “metal” side and not infusing enough of the melody or the creepy-ness of the old stuff.
Still it’s so much better than anything Tate has done in decades
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I have to say I really thought Tates last few bands doing RFO and Empire etc sounded really good to my ears.
I would love to hear these records with Todd. And this is where I think the current QR kind of shot themselves on the foot by not jumping ahead of Tate and touring the new stuff along with the old stuff. I get that the current lineup wanted to do their own thing. But imo, that was huge miss. And I give credit to Tate for capitalizing that. I hope I get to see Tate perform RFO and Empire once touring resumes.
why would you want those songs that are from Tates mind to be performed by Todd?
Can't speak for him, but my answer would be: Todd can actually sing them and do them justice. Tate cannot. Tate's singing has gotten so bad, and his technique so wrong that it makes me physically uncomfortable listening to him.
EDIT: Or what JD said.
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I imagine the possibility of how much crap Tate and Kelly can still do together! :lol
All those pitiful records were not enough!
This. I’m usually pretty forgiving and loyal once I get into an artist. I’m one of the biggest Lulu apologists on this entire forum. But QRs dysfunction has made Metallica seem downright normal. It’s like Metallica is a slightly controversial episode of Survivor, while QR went straight for Kardasian territory, and then when that burned to the ground, they doubled down into Tiger King territory. It’s just ridiculous at this point.
I’m honestly questioning whether anyone but Todd is actually interested in music at all.
I didn't understand all the references on American TV, but I got the idea (at least I know who the Kardashians are). :lol
And that's it. I think Tate is the only case of an original vocalist who has left the band after years and a portion of the audience is relieved.
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I have to say I really thought Tates last few bands doing RFO and Empire etc sounded really good to my ears.
I would love to hear these records with Todd. And this is where I think the current QR kind of shot themselves on the foot by not jumping ahead of Tate and touring the new stuff along with the old stuff. I get that the current lineup wanted to do their own thing. But imo, that was huge miss. And I give credit to Tate for capitalizing that. I hope I get to see Tate perform RFO and Empire once touring resumes.
why would you want those songs that are from Tates mind to be performed by Todd?
Can't speak for him, but my answer would be: Todd can actually sing them and do them justice. Tate cannot. Tate's singing has gotten so bad, and his technique so wrong that it makes me physically uncomfortable listening to him.
EDIT: Or what JD said.
I guess but Ive heard Tate nail them since 82 so to me I dont need to see them without Tate as to me IMO they are his songs, like someone else doing Bowie songs, to me it doesnt work. Ive said Id like for the QR name to be retired period
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I think TLT does better than ok. I’m 51, and I think TLT is not as good as Tate in his prime, but he’s worlds better than Tate today.
I don’t want to see TLT re-record the old stuff, but I do think they are slightly over focused on the “metal” side and not infusing enough of the melody or the creepy-ness of the old stuff.
Still it’s so much better than anything Tate has done in decades
IDK Bro Tate did a great job on the RFO stuff before Covid... to me Id rather see him, and Tate owns the stage and the emotion of the song...to me it just doesnt workt= without him, at a live show the little amount of down tuning doesnt bother me at all . Todd to me is actually degrading fast live
Maybe QR3 with Scotty will have a new singer that makes us forget Tate and Todd,,,: )
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I have to say I really thought Tates last few bands doing RFO and Empire etc sounded really good to my ears.
I would love to hear these records with Todd. And this is where I think the current QR kind of shot themselves on the foot by not jumping ahead of Tate and touring the new stuff along with the old stuff. I get that the current lineup wanted to do their own thing. But imo, that was huge miss. And I give credit to Tate for capitalizing that. I hope I get to see Tate perform RFO and Empire once touring resumes.
why would you want those songs that are from Tates mind to be performed by Todd? may I ask your age? Im 57
40
I think Todd does relatively well with the old material.
Thanks for the answer we all have our opinions : )
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I have to say I really thought Tates last few bands doing RFO and Empire etc sounded really good to my ears.
I would love to hear these records with Todd. And this is where I think the current QR kind of shot themselves on the foot by not jumping ahead of Tate and touring the new stuff along with the old stuff. I get that the current lineup wanted to do their own thing. But imo, that was huge miss. And I give credit to Tate for capitalizing that. I hope I get to see Tate perform RFO and Empire once touring resumes.
why would you want those songs that are from Tates mind to be performed by Todd?
Can't speak for him, but my answer would be: Todd can actually sing them and do them justice. Tate cannot. Tate's singing has gotten so bad, and his technique so wrong that it makes me physically uncomfortable listening to him.
EDIT: Or what JD said.
I guess but Ive heard Tate nail them since 82 so to me I dont need to see them without Tate as to me IMO they are his songs, like someone else doing Bowie songs, to me it doesnt work. Ive said Id like for the QR name to be retired period
I want to make sure I understand what you’re saying here...you think Tate is still “nailing” it vocally as he was in 1982?
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“Heard”
Past tense
That stopped somewhere in the mid-late 90s. Haven’t heard him “nail” anything since. Although I admit the recent shows were a mild improvement.
Have you heard Gordon Lightfoot try to do his stuff recently? He sounds like crypt-keeper. Artists sometimes just need to hang it up. Sometimes tribute artists ARE better...especially when the original artists has proven that they are neglecting their instrument.
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Exactly. Nobody here is comparing Todd to Tate in his prime. I was a bit late to the party and didn't see them live until the Building Empires tour. But even then, few, if anybody, could touch Tate live. Back then, I wouldn't want to see anyone else doing those songs. But talking about going to a show now, I just wouldn't even go to a show with Tate on lead vocals. Even if it was free, I have no desire to hear him ruin those songs and make me physically uncomfortable hearing him "singing" them incorrectly and in a way that you can hear is doing further damage to his throat. I have seen Queesnryche during this era, and I would, under the right circumstances* do so again.
*I say "under the right circumstances" because I feel that their shortened sets make me feel short changed. Give me a longer set or another band touring with them that I want to see, so that I feel I am getting some value for my ticket price, and I'm there.
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I have to say I really thought Tates last few bands doing RFO and Empire etc sounded really good to my ears.
I would love to hear these records with Todd. And this is where I think the current QR kind of shot themselves on the foot by not jumping ahead of Tate and touring the new stuff along with the old stuff. I get that the current lineup wanted to do their own thing. But imo, that was huge miss. And I give credit to Tate for capitalizing that. I hope I get to see Tate perform RFO and Empire once touring resumes.
why would you want those songs that are from Tates mind to be performed by Todd?
Can't speak for him, but my answer would be: Todd can actually sing them and do them justice. Tate cannot. Tate's singing has gotten so bad, and his technique so wrong that it makes me physically uncomfortable listening to him.
EDIT: Or what JD said.
I guess but Ive heard Tate nail them since 82 so to me I dont need to see them without Tate as to me IMO they are his songs, like someone else doing Bowie songs, to me it doesnt work. Ive said Id like for the QR name to be retired period
I want to make sure I understand what you’re saying here...you think Tate is still “nailing” it vocally as he was in 1982?
Im saying I heard him nail them live from 82 until say 94. after that his voice changed but thats ok and he was maybe 85% and gave in some on some of the higher notes live but it never took away from the live experience, I think we forget it been almost 40 years for Geoff and he still is getting it done live and many of us are still happy with his voice period and we love him on stage as hes one of the very best frontmen ever Todd may have a higher vocal ability but live hes terrible to watch IMO so why would I want to "watch" Todd live ever? id rather play the ole albums if I want "Notes" hit IMO as always for debate
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“Heard”
Past tense
That stopped somewhere in the mid-late 90s. Haven’t heard him “nail” anything since. Although I admit the recent shows were a mild improvement.
Have you heard Gordon Lightfoot try to do his stuff recently? He sounds like crypt-keeper. Artists sometimes just need to hang it up. Sometimes tribute artists ARE better...especially when the original artists has proven that they are neglecting their instrument.
Ill have to take a listen God Bless hes still around
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I know this is the ultimate fence-sitter position, by why can't folks just enjoy both?
I prefer Tate to La Torre, but there's no denying that La Torre can perform the songs in the original key. No, they don't sound as GOOD as how Tate did them in QR's prime. But there are a variety of factors -- Tate back then was untouchable. Everyone knows it. His voice is also very different than Todd's. Todd's voice is thinner. He can hit those notes (not as clean), and hold a few, but his voice is just naturally not as...full...as Tate's was back then. There (is/was) a power and warmth from Tate's early years that Todd has never been able to duplicate. And it's unfair to think anyone can.
Todd has his own unique voice, and is incredibly gifted. I personally wish Queensryche would just focus on the three albums with him, and just pepper the set with a few of the old classics. If they generally do 15 songs, make 10 of them from the three La Torre records, make five of them the "must play" classics of Queen of the Reich, Take Hold of the Flame, Eyes of a Stranger, Empire, Silent Lucidity.
Make the rest of the set the stuff that was recorded and written specifically with and for La Torre. Arguably, to my ears, the performance would be better. That's never going to happen, because the band believes (and probably correctly) that people expect the old material. That puts La Torre under the spotlight continually to replicate Tate's past. And frankly, while he's done an admirable job, that's really an unfair expectation from people.
That said though, many people think La Torre is "just as good" as Tate back in the day. Obviously, that is subjective. But the more people that think that when they see them, the better it is for Queensryche.
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QR3 The Original QR3 , featuring Original QR3 founding member Scott Rockenfield
Vocals: David Lee Roth
Guitar: Mick "whip" Mars
Guitar: Robert "the Hat" Sarzo
Bass : Juan "Juan Bass" Croucier
Drums: Scott Rockenfield
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That scoring system is silly.
I was trying to dance around it but you just went there. :lol yeah, it's dumb.
It's divest of merit. ;)
It's a travesty to be honest.
It's a shamockery.
You need to harvest the last vestige eric42434224!
Double score! :metal
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I'm preaching to the choir here, but it REALLY devalues a band's name when they "branch out" like that. Queensryche, LA Guns, Great White...it makes me not want to check out any of the iterations of these bands going forward.
Choir? You're preaching to the choir, the vestry, the whole damn church!
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Random QR Q: "I'm sorry. It's just starting to hit me like a... Ah.. a two ton heavy thing"
Is that Geoff? Someone else? What does it mean? Does it have any relevance to Empire?
Thanks!
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No, it's not Geoff. I'll leave further explanation to Samsara.
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Random QR Q: "I'm sorry. It's just staying to hit me like a... Ah.. a two ton heavy thing"
Is that Geoff? Someone else? What does it mean? Does it have any relevance to Empire?
Thanks!
I’m pretty sure it’s Randy Gane, but ya, Samsara would be the one with this tidbit.
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:tup
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Yep, as bosk and T-Ski said, it's Randy Gane. He left a message on Geoff's voicemail and they used it for the intro to "Empire."
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Are his words related to the song, do we know? They don't send to be.
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Are his words related to the song, do we know? They don't send to be.
The song is about the black market drug kingpins in many ways, the line is about taking a drug and "it hitting him like a 2 ton heavy thing" ( or maybe a self revelation or epiphany ) so yes the line is connected, IMO
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Are his words related to the song, do we know? They don't send to be.
The song is about the black market drug kingpins in many ways, the line is about taking a drug and "it hitting him like a 2 ton heavy thing" ( or maybe a self revelation or epiphany ) so yes the line is connected, IMO
Do you actually know or are you just making it up?
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Are his words related to the song, do we know? They don't send to be.
The song is about the black market drug kingpins in many ways, the line is about taking a drug and "it hitting him like a 2 ton heavy thing" ( or maybe a self revelation or epiphany ) so yes the line is connected, IMO
Do you actually know or are you just making it up?
I know the song,,, : ) its pretty much what its about. right? The video also points to that also...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSTct2FFamw
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Jeez, you certainly can tell it was EPICVIEW who crunched those member number ratings. :lol
strictly science...I used PIE to calculate... Blueberry : )
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Are his words related to the song, do we know? They don't send to be.
The song is about the black market drug kingpins in many ways, the line is about taking a drug and "it hitting him like a 2 ton heavy thing" ( or maybe a self revelation or epiphany ) so yes the line is connected, IMO
I see what you're saying. Seems like a bit of a leap to me, honestly. The songs isn't about taking drugs and it isn't obvious to me that the intro line is either.
I'm not bashing Empire, btw. One of my favourite albums of all time. I never thought about the intro line until recently but it seems like there might be more to it than what meets the eye.
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Exactly. Nobody here is comparing Todd to Tate in his prime. I was a bit late to the party and didn't see them live until the Building Empires tour. But even then, few, if anybody, could touch Tate live. Back then, I wouldn't want to see anyone else doing those songs. But talking about going to a show now, I just wouldn't even go to a show with Tate on lead vocals. Even if it was free, I have no desire to hear him ruin those songs and make me physically uncomfortable hearing him "singing" them incorrectly and in a way that you can hear is doing further damage to his throat. I have seen Queesnryche during this era, and I would, under the right circumstances* do so again.
*I say "under the right circumstances" because I feel that their shortened sets make me feel short changed. Give me a longer set or another band touring with them that I want to see, so that I feel I am getting some value for my ticket price, and I'm there.
I saw him live in...2009, I think. It was the year that Queensryche/Fates Warning/Dream Theater were touring together and even then, over a decade ago he was having a very difficult time singing the more vintage 80's material. I wouldn't really be interested in seeing them with Tate again. But if they come around with Todd I might check it out because I really like the albums they've done with him and I'm sure that material would dominate their sets now.
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I saw him live in...2009, I think. It was the year that Queensryche/Fates Warning/Dream Theater were touring together
Summer 2003.
and even then, over a decade ago he was having a very difficult time singing the more vintage 80's material. I wouldn't really be interested in seeing them with Tate again. But if they come around with Todd I might check it out because I really like the albums they've done with him and I'm sure that material would dominate their sets now.
Funny enough, I was thinking how long ago it was. I thought about Live Evolution, which came out in 2001, and can't believe that was 20 years ago this fall.
re: current QR and the setlist -- that's the thing, the current material with Todd does NOT dominate the sets. I saw them last February before COVID shut it all down. They played four songs from The Verdict. Nothing else from the TLT era. The other 13 songs in the set were all classic material from the EP-Empire.
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I saw him live in...2009, I think. It was the year that Queensryche/Fates Warning/Dream Theater were touring together
Summer 2003.
Damn :lol I'm old, ha ha
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Are his words related to the song, do we know? They don't send to be.
The song is about the black market drug kingpins in many ways, the line is about taking a drug and "it hitting him like a 2 ton heavy thing" ( or maybe a self revelation or epiphany ) so yes the line is connected, IMO
I see what you're saying. Seems like a bit of a leap to me, honestly. The songs isn't about taking drugs and it isn't obvious to me that the intro line is either.
I'm not bashing Empire, btw. One of my favourite albums of all time. I never thought about the intro line until recently but it seems like there might be more to it than what meets the eye.
No leap at all IMO the song is about drug lords and drug cartels building empires off selling drugs to the weak and vulnerable its a snaphot of that part of society's ills its about the drug wars and drug laws at that time.
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I saw him live in...2009, I think. It was the year that Queensryche/Fates Warning/Dream Theater were touring together
Summer 2003.
Damn :lol I'm old, ha ha
Queensryche/Fates Warning/Dream Theater Summer 2003 -> As I Am (ToT) :)
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QR3 FEATURING ORIGINAL FOUNDING QR3 MEMBER SCOTT ROCKENFIELD
BEHOLD THEIR FIRST RELEASE SNIPPET
IN A WORLD THAT WILL EXPLODE
https://www.queensryche2021.com/
IM ALL IN !!!! I can feel the Lady Gaga and Moby in it.... Im telling you DtC wsa a band effort , any questions? Buehler?
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Before opening the link, I thought that "behold their first release snippet in a world that will explode" was the press release, I didn't get that the second line was the title of the song :lol
I mean, look at the tone of Scott's posts, it was not out of the realm of possibilities for him to write that.
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If he's got some solo stuff or a new band, I would check it out. But I'm not going to support another "Queensryche". There can be only one.
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That sounds exasperatingly banal.
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That sounds exasperatingly banal.
well said Boss...
for some reason I envision in my mind "Bam Bam and Pebbles" playing this
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If he's got some solo stuff or a new band, I would check it out. But I'm not going to support another "Queensryche". There can be only one.
Cmon now Queensryche is about evolving they have now evolved into 3 Bands Maybe Jackson should start his own and show them all who really was the visionary of the band
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So this is just Scott doing his TeleVoid project under the QR name?
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God Help Me..... im starting to tap my finger to this and its growing on me,,..... HELP
on the 50th listen it breaks your soul
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That sounds exasperatingly banal.
Yes! :facepalm: :lol
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That’s it! I’m completely and totally done! I will no longer even except the new version of Queensryche as the “official“ version. They are a fairly decent power metal band with former Queensryche members. but seriously, to heck with every single one of them. I honestly do not care anymore. I’m completely done with this band.
Even though I thought HITNF was kind of lame, I think the band became terminally diseased the day Chris left...managed to stay on life support through Tribe, and then gave a pathetic dying gasp with OMC2.
I never thought I would get pushed this far with this band, but this is the last straw. I’m totally done. I have followed them loyally ever since 1983 and desperately tried to remain on board through all the troublesome times. But I’ve been pushed beyond my limit now.
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Sooo…uhhh….any of you fellas going to join the legion?
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That’s it! I’m completely and totally done! I will no longer even except the new version of Queensryche as the “official“ version. They are a fairly decent power metal band with former Queensryche members. but seriously, to heck with every single one of them. I honestly do not care anymore. I’m completely done with this band.
Even though I thought HITNF was kind of lame, I think the band became terminally diseased the day Chris left...managed to stay on life support through Tribe, and then gave a pathetic dying gasp with OMC2.
I never thought I would get pushed this far with this band, but this is the last straw. I’m totally done. I have followed them loyally ever since 1983 and desperately tried to remain on board through all the troublesome times. But I’ve been pushed beyond my limit now.
Wait...so...you're done with Queensryche because of a completely separate project that the band has no involvement with (and, it would appear, does not approve of)? What an odd reaction.
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Sooo…uhhh….any of you fellas going to join the legion?
bruhahahha...
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:rollin
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That’s it! I’m completely and totally done! I will no longer even except the new version of Queensryche as the “official“ version. They are a fairly decent power metal band with former Queensryche members. but seriously, to heck with every single one of them. I honestly do not care anymore. I’m completely done with this band.
Even though I thought HITNF was kind of lame, I think the band became terminally diseased the day Chris left...managed to stay on life support through Tribe, and then gave a pathetic dying gasp with OMC2.
Sometimes a man can only take so much!
I never thought I would get pushed this far with this band, but this is the last straw. I’m totally done. I have followed them loyally ever since 1983 and desperately tried to remain on board through all the troublesome times. But I’ve been pushed beyond my limit now.
Wait...so...you're done with Queensryche because of a completely separate project that the band has no involvement with (and, it would appear, does not approve of)? What an odd reaction.
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Sooo…uhhh….any of you fellas going to join the legion?
Id join but I dont want Legionnaires disease..lol. : ) Im a legion of one LOL
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So this is just Scott doing his TeleVoid project under the QR name?
Televoid meets NIN under the QR name. ::)
That’s it! I’m completely and totally done! I will no longer even except the new version of Queensryche as the “official“ version. They are a fairly decent power metal band with former Queensryche members. but seriously, to heck with every single one of them. I honestly do not care anymore. I’m completely done with this band.
Even though I thought HITNF was kind of lame, I think the band became terminally diseased the day Chris left...managed to stay on life support through Tribe, and then gave a pathetic dying gasp with OMC2.
I never thought I would get pushed this far with this band, but this is the last straw. I’m totally done. I have followed them loyally ever since 1983 and desperately tried to remain on board through all the troublesome times. But I’ve been pushed beyond my limit now.
Wait...so...you're done with Queensryche because of a completely separate project that the band has no involvement with (and, it would appear, does not approve of)? What an odd reaction.
Ben, love ya, but I gotta go with Bosk on this one - I'm failing to see how Rockenfield trying to do a different project under the QR name has anything to do with your willingness to continue following the official band. I mean it's not like Wilton or Eddie fired the rest of the band and got a whole new group of young no names to just be a flat out nostalgia act (no new releases, just tour on their legacy - kinda like Blotzer's Ratt), nor did they fire Rockenfield forcing him to come up with his own touring unit (Great White), nor do they have a continually rotating group of personnel that sometimes pingpong from one version to another (LA Guns), nor is Rockenfield's group gonna contain Tater or DeGarmo.
If Rockenfield did this under a different name, like he did the two Rockenfield-Speers albums, you'd never bat an eyelash. And I'm sure there are some bands that you love that only have one single remaining original member, like Fates Warning. So I'm failing to see why Rockenfield's idiocy is making you hate on the real band. It's no different than what happened with Tater - in fact I'd say at this point, this is less dramatic than the fiasco that went on with Tater.
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Sooo…uhhh….any of you fellas going to join the legion?
Id join but I dont want Legionnaires disease..ion. : ) Im a legion of one LOL
Nah. You're a Tater-tot! :biggrin:
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Sooo…uhhh….any of you fellas going to join the legion?
Id join but I dont want Legionnaires disease..ion. : ) Im a legion of one LOL
Nah. You're a Tater-tot! :biggrin:
I am true...
but cmon QR3 is going to crush all until QR4 comes out : )
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Before opening the link, I thought that "behold their first release snippet in a world that will explode" was the press release, I didn't get that the second line was the title of the song :lol
I mean, look at the tone of Scott's posts, it was not out of the realm of possibilities for him to write that.
LOL I can see that confusion....
Is that David Lee Roth on vocals? it does sound like Mick Whip Mars on guitar : )
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So what, is this going to be called Queensryche?
Is that even legal?
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So what, is this going to be called Queensryche?
Is that even legal?
It would take the other 2 in QRLLC to sue Scott, it would be a repeat of Tates use of the QR name drama sorta and buy out of his stock, I sense the band may have had a falling out with Scott, Scott asked to be bought out and they dont have the money to do so. He may be doing this as leverage to reconcile or to be bought out. Just my guess but objectively it sure looks like that. Scott is coming off a costly divorce and a costly new child with another girl so Im sure he needs income. he could join Geoff and Scott could use the name QR, I know Geoff did help Scott when Scott asked for his help during his divorce and I know Scott and Geoff have made up, would be a wild turn of events. I truly love this drama !!! I dont think Geoff needs the stress as he is doing quite well now and has carved out his fans.... but......ya ...never ....know LOL
"in a World that will Explode" ...it sure would LOL
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I suspect that the way the settlement with Geoff was structured, he would get smacked pretty hard if he were in any project trying to use the Queensryche name. It would be a huge mistake for him to get involved in a project with Scott called "Queensryche."
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I suspect that the way the settlement with Geoff was structured, he would get smacked pretty hard if he were in any project trying to use the Queensryche name. It would be a huge mistake for him to get involved in a project with Scott called "Queensryche."
It sure is interesting Boss... One must deduce that Scott learned a lot on that being on the other side of that legal and emotional battle with Geoff. he must know what the other 2 left in QR are able and not able to do financially and legally. This band is the best at drama!!! why do I feel in my bones that Casey is Todds boy, he left Kamelot to join Todd, now Todd is saying "you bring back Scott Ill walk out the door im not doing that to Casey" ( Todd can as hes not in the LLC but an employee and can just walk out and not look back )
it all makes for great fodder
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I’m just upset. I might rethink it later.
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I’m just upset. I might rethink it later.
It's all right bro - not the end of the world, although it's probably the end of anyone thinking of Rockenfield respectfully.... :o
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I’m just upset. I might rethink it later.
I see what you are saying ,,,,I have no love for the current QR on any level , but if I did this would be very disappointing and sorta proves that it was not Tate that was the real issue, and even when after Tate leaves the dysfunction continued, that does say something about the other members other than Tate. and at this point a QR of just Wilton and Jackson? is that really QR? Id argue NO.... at that point as Ive said for a long time the name QR should just be retired. but that wont happen as they stupidly paid Tate quite well to use the name QR exclusively and Tate got OMC and OMCII along with the purchase back of his stock at value it will never be at again. now it appears Scott is done with all of them also but Scott in many ways is the catalyst of this current drama with his bad behavior and shunning of the band for 4 years..it also tells me that Todd has taken control of the band and is calling the shots ( cough,.... what they said Tate did )
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I’m just upset. I might rethink it later.
It's all right bro - not the end of the world, although it's probably the end of anyone thinking of Rockenfield respectfully.... :o
Except EPICVIEW, who is happy that the valiant Scott has escaped the clutches of the terrible Todd.
:rollin
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I think it would have been much easier for Scott to join Tate's band. But EPICVIEW might be right that Scott is doing this to force QR to buy out Scott from the corporation.
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In other news: Looks like something is finally happening with the Empire box set (and Mindcrime too apparently).
https://facebook.com/GeoffTateOfficial/posts/319868416167163
The links in the post don't seem to work for me. Can anyone in the U.S. tell what they lead to? :)
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I’m hoping for some new bonus stuff rather than a rehash of the last remasters.
I’d like the deluxe book type packages though.
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Seems like they are new remasters.
Empire:
Empire features the top-10 hit, "Silent Lucidity," which was nominated for 2 Grammys. This version, newly remastered at Abbey Road Studios, brings together all the available recordings to narrate the story of this remarkable album. It also contains a DVD containing promotional videos and live performances. Features new sleeve notes by Alex Milas who spoke with Geoff Tate at length, discussing the making of the album and the concept behind it, and is housed in a 10″x10″ box.
Mindcrime:
Operation: Mindcrime was produced by Peter Collins and was recorded, mixed, and mastered digitally on a Sony 24-track digital tape machine. This new version was remastered at Abbey Road Studios and brings together all the available recordings. Housed in a 10″ x 10″ box, this is the final word on this exceptional album and contains a DVD of promotional videos & performances. The expanded booklet features new sleeve notes by Alex Milas who spoke with Geoff Tate about the making of the album.
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clicking Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-3CD-DVD-Queensryche/dp/B083XX252G/ref=sr_1_1?ascsubtag=3281580f0a7bf66e08f11850ecbd5eee&dchild=1&fbclid=IwAR0PcGe4qyKodteHkhP5L-lona-2mCPYPBZ5PioeT9MIdqlA_nfcH2TJbmE&linkCode=as2&qid=1620943030&sr=8-1
For 'discovermusic'
https://shop.udiscovermusic.com/collections/queensryche?fbclid=IwAR0PcGe4qyKodteHkhP5L-lona-2mCPYPBZ5PioeT9MIdqlA_nfcH2TJbmE
discovermusic has all the track listings
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QR3 FEATURING ORIGINAL FOUNDING QR3 MEMBER SCOTT ROCKENFIELD
BEHOLD THEIR FIRST RELEASE SNIPPET
IN A WORLD THAT WILL EXPLODE
https://www.queensryche2021.com/
IM ALL IN !!!! I can feel the Lady Gaga and Moby in it.... Im telling you DtC wsa a band effort , any questions? Buehler?
What the fuck?! Fuck this! Female vocals, fuck off Scott you pleb.
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Seems like they are new remasters.
Empire:
Empire features the top-10 hit, "Silent Lucidity," which was nominated for 2 Grammys. This version, newly remastered at Abbey Road Studios, brings together all the available recordings to narrate the story of this remarkable album. It also contains a DVD containing promotional videos and live performances. Features new sleeve notes by Alex Milas who spoke with Geoff Tate at length, discussing the making of the album and the concept behind it, and is housed in a 10″x10″ box.
Mindcrime:
Operation: Mindcrime was produced by Peter Collins and was recorded, mixed, and mastered digitally on a Sony 24-track digital tape machine. This new version was remastered at Abbey Road Studios and brings together all the available recordings. Housed in a 10″ x 10″ box, this is the final word on this exceptional album and contains a DVD of promotional videos & performances. The expanded booklet features new sleeve notes by Alex Milas who spoke with Geoff Tate about the making of the album.
Hopefully the Empire pack contains the unplugged performance.
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Hopefully the Empire pack contains the unplugged performance.
Sadly not according to the "udiscovermusic" site:
Tracklist
CD1
1. Best I Can
2. The Thin Line
3. Jet City Woman
4. Della Brown
5. Another Rainy Night (Without You)
6. Empire
7. Resistance
8. Silent Lucidity
9. Hand On Heart
10. One And Only
11. Anybody Listening?
CD2
1. Last Time In Paris - (Bonus Track)
2. Scarborough Fair - (Bonus Track)
3. Dirty Lil Secret - (Bonus Track)
4. Silent Lucidity - Edit
5. Empire - Edit
6. I Dream In Infrared - Acoustic Version
7. Prophecy - Live In Tokyo
8. Best I Can - Radio Edit
9. Anybody Listening? -Radio Edit
CD3 - Live At Hammersmith Odeon, London 1990
1. Resistance
2. Walk in The Shadows
3. Best I Can
4. Empire
5. The Thin Line
6. Jet City Woman
7. Roads To Madness
8. Silent Lucidity
9. Hand On Heart
10. Take Hold Of The Flame
DVD
1. Nightrider
2. Prophecy (Live In Tokyo 1983)
3. Gonna Get Close To You
4. Eyes of A Stranger -Alternate 5. Version
5. Empire
6. Best I Can
7. Silent Lucidity
8. Jet City Woman
9. Another Rainy Night (Without You)
10. Another Rainy Night (Without You) -Alternate Version
11. Anybody Listening?
12. Resistance (Live)
13. Walk In The Shadows (Live)
14. The Thin Line (Live)
15. Take Hold Of The Flame (Live)
16. The Lady Wore Black (Live)
17. Silent Lucidity (Live)
So the included DVD is just Burning Empires? I guess that's cool, considering it's been out of print for so long now, and second hand copies are expensive.
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Ehh... so Scott's Queensr˙che is going to make martial industrial music?
This is just weird.
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CD2
1. Last Time In Paris - (Bonus Track)
2. Scarborough Fair - (Bonus Track)
3. Dirty Lil Secret - (Bonus Track)
4. Silent Lucidity - Edit
5. Empire - Edit
6. I Dream In Infrared - Acoustic Version
7. Prophecy - Live In Tokyo
8. Best I Can - Radio Edit
9. Anybody Listening? -Radio Edit
Heh, while DLS is a Promised Land-era B-side, it just keeps getting re-released with Empire.
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I’m just upset. I might rethink it later.
It's all right bro - not the end of the world, although it's probably the end of anyone thinking of Rockenfield respectfully.... :o
Except EPICVIEW, who is happy that the valiant Scott has escaped the clutches of the terrible Todd.
:rollin
I WANT DRAMA !!! the music is irrelevant at this point,,,, joking,,, not joking,,LOL
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QR3 FEATURING ORIGINAL FOUNDING QR3 MEMBER SCOTT ROCKENFIELD
BEHOLD THEIR FIRST RELEASE SNIPPET
IN A WORLD THAT WILL EXPLODE
https://www.queensryche2021.com/
IM ALL IN !!!! I can feel the Lady Gaga and Moby in it.... Im telling you DtC wsa a band effort , any questions? Buehler?
What the fuck?! Fuck this! Female vocals, fuck off Scott you pleb.
Hes been open in his love of Lady Gaga and Moby... I simply can not wait !! : )
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I never got into any QR stuff after Promised Land, and have only sampled a few things since then, enough to know I wasn’t interested. Then the Tate stuff happened and now this just makes me very happy to not have invested much in this band beyond Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land.
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Hes been open in his love of Lady Gaga and Moby...
the music is irrelevant at this point
Apparently! ;D
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Extremely disappointed about both the Empire and Mindcrime editions, and whatever the sound clip is on Scott Rock's QR site.
Empire and Mindcrime remastered...again. Cool. Bonus tracks, same stuff as usual. Just sort of repackaged around. The only thing that catches my eye is, on Mindcrime, Live in Wisconsin...is that LIVEcrime? I assume so. But so much of all this stuff on both records is available everywhere, and has been available everywhere.
Cool for fans who may not have gotten any of that stuff, but for hardcores, who I would expect these are aimed at, there's nothing "collectable" here except more commentary from Tate.
Pass. Sadly.
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Does anyone know what the Overseeing the Operation bonus track is? That’s the only thing really new that I noticed.
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Hes been open in his love of Lady Gaga and Moby...
the music is irrelevant at this point
Apparently! ;D
bro you did see my lineup for QR3,,,,, Id pay to see that weekly LOL,,, think about that group doing OMC lol
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CD2
1. Last Time In Paris - (Bonus Track)
2. Scarborough Fair - (Bonus Track)
3. Dirty Lil Secret - (Bonus Track)
4. Silent Lucidity - Edit
5. Empire - Edit
6. I Dream In Infrared - Acoustic Version
7. Prophecy - Live In Tokyo
8. Best I Can - Radio Edit
9. Anybody Listening? -Radio Edit
Heh, while DLS is a Promised Land-era B-side, it just keeps getting re-released with Empire.
Unless I am misremembering, I believe that is because it was written (and recorded) during the Empire sessions, and just not used as a B-side until PL (I forget which single it was on). Samsara can verify whether my recollection is correct, but I think that's the story.
And, yeah, I'm right with those who are taking a "pass" on getting these box sets. They bring nothing new to the table, unfortunately. Being in an era now with physical album sales already at all-time lows, I think they are going to be disappointed with how few units of this actually get sold.
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I’m just upset. I might rethink it later.
It's all right bro - not the end of the world, although it's probably the end of anyone thinking of Rockenfield respectfully.... :o
Except EPICVIEW, who is happy that the valiant Scott has escaped the clutches of the terrible Todd.
:rollin
I WANT DRAMA !!! the music is irrelevant at this point,,,, joking,,, not joking,,LOL
Since 1994.
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Hes been open in his love of Lady Gaga and Moby...
the music is irrelevant at this point
Apparently! ;D
bro you did see my lineup for QR3,,,,, Id pay to see that weekly LOL,,, think about that group doing OMC lol
Were those the action figures? How many points for that combo? :lol
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what if that is Emily Tate on vocals ;) ;D..... lets add that to any drama just for the sake of fun
do we have our first true Queen of the Reich?
worst part is its growing on me ,,, Stockholm syndrome is real
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Hes been open in his love of Lady Gaga and Moby...
the music is irrelevant at this point
Apparently! ;D
bro you did see my lineup for QR3,,,,, Id pay to see that weekly LOL,,, think about that group doing OMC lol
Were those the action figures? How many points for that combo? :lol
QR3 The Original QR3 , featuring Original QR3 founding member Scott Rockenfield
Vocals: David Lee Roth
Guitar: Mick "whip" Mars
Guitar: Robert "the Hat" Sarzo
Bass : Juan "Juan Bass" Croucier
Drums: Scott Rockenfield
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QR3 FEATURING ORIGINAL FOUNDING QR3 MEMBER SCOTT ROCKENFIELD
BEHOLD THEIR FIRST RELEASE SNIPPET
IN A WORLD THAT WILL EXPLODE
https://www.queensryche2021.com/
IM ALL IN !!!! I can feel the Lady Gaga and Moby in it.... Im telling you DtC wsa a band effort , any questions? Buehler?
What the fuck?! Fuck this! Female vocals, fuck off Scott you pleb.
You know who would be perfect for this band on guitar (in light of some bad memories this is bringing back)...........Timo Tolkki :biggrin:
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Quick change of topic:
I hadn't listened to the EP in forever, largely because it didn't do much for me back in the day, but I just gave it a fresh spin and, hot damn, The Lady Wore Black is awesome. I would ask, how did I miss that before?, but that seems to be a recurring theme with me the last few years. :lol :lol
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Quick change of topic:
I hadn't listened to the EP in forever, largely because it didn't do much for me back in the day, but I just gave it a fresh spin and, hot damn, The Lady Wore Black is awesome. I would ask, how did I miss that before?, but that seems to be a recurring theme with me the last few years. :lol :lol
I spun the ep a few months ago I lived on it daily from the day it came out for years, still mind melting
-
Quick change of topic:
I hadn't listened to the EP in forever, largely because it didn't do much for me back in the day, but I just gave it a fresh spin and, hot damn, The Lady Wore Black is awesome. I would ask, how did I miss that before?, but that seems to be a recurring theme with me the last few years. :lol :lol
I spun the ep a few months ago I lived on it daily from the day it came out for years, still mind melting
Finally something we can all agree on. :metal
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Quick change of topic:
I hadn't listened to the EP in forever, largely because it didn't do much for me back in the day, but I just gave it a fresh spin and, hot damn, The Lady Wore Black is awesome. I would ask, how did I miss that before?, but that seems to be a recurring theme with me the last few years. :lol :lol
I spun the ep a few months ago I lived on it daily from the day it came out for years, still mind melting
Finally something we can all agree on. :metal
:tup :metal
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The EP blew me away when it came out. Still does. Such a fresh approach.
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The Unplugged version of Lady Wore Black is phenomenal. Wish QR would release the full unplugged show.
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The Unplugged version of Lady Wore Black is phenomenal. Wish QR would release the full unplugged show.
yep
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Hopefully the Empire pack contains the unplugged performance.
Sadly not according to the "udiscovermusic" site:
Tracklist
CD1
1. Best I Can
2. The Thin Line
3. Jet City Woman
4. Della Brown
5. Another Rainy Night (Without You)
6. Empire
7. Resistance
8. Silent Lucidity
9. Hand On Heart
10. One And Only
11. Anybody Listening?
CD2
1. Last Time In Paris - (Bonus Track)
2. Scarborough Fair - (Bonus Track)
3. Dirty Lil Secret - (Bonus Track)
4. Silent Lucidity - Edit
5. Empire - Edit
6. I Dream In Infrared - Acoustic Version
7. Prophecy - Live In Tokyo
8. Best I Can - Radio Edit
9. Anybody Listening? -Radio Edit
CD3 - Live At Hammersmith Odeon, London 1990
1. Resistance
2. Walk in The Shadows
3. Best I Can
4. Empire
5. The Thin Line
6. Jet City Woman
7. Roads To Madness
8. Silent Lucidity
9. Hand On Heart
10. Take Hold Of The Flame
DVD
1. Nightrider
2. Prophecy (Live In Tokyo 1983)
3. Gonna Get Close To You
4. Eyes of A Stranger -Alternate 5. Version
5. Empire
6. Best I Can
7. Silent Lucidity
8. Jet City Woman
9. Another Rainy Night (Without You)
10. Another Rainy Night (Without You) -Alternate Version
11. Anybody Listening?
12. Resistance (Live)
13. Walk In The Shadows (Live)
14. The Thin Line (Live)
15. Take Hold Of The Flame (Live)
16. The Lady Wore Black (Live)
17. Silent Lucidity (Live)
So the included DVD is just Burning Empires? I guess that's cool, considering it's been out of print for so long now, and second hand copies are expensive.
Pass. I have that DVD.
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The Unplugged version of Lady Wore Black is phenomenal. Wish QR would release the full unplugged show.
Yeah, missed opportunity not releasing it here.
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Did you see that?
https://store.udiscovermusic.com/*/Pre-Order/Operation-Mindcrime-4CD-DVD/6Z7K0JG7000
https://store.udiscovermusic.com/*/*/Empire-3CD-DVD/6Z890000000
Edit: I guess EVERYBODY saw this, but me! ;D
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That’s another thing. For years I’ve tried to excuse and turn a blind eye for how tone deaf they seem to be. But this whole thing is just sort of bringing all the other past things that I tried to ignore into clarity.
Seriously. How tone deaf is it to know that your Fanbase wants nothing more than the unplugged to get a release and to not even say anything. If you can’t, then for god sake‘s say something! Tell us why! Don’t just ignore us!
I’m just sick of the attitude of the entire band. I tried to excuse it for so long thinking it was just Geoff. I’ve only just now started to realize that it really is all of them and I’m just sick of it.
-
I'm interested to hear how the new remasters sound. But not enough to buy them. I'll check it out on Spotify if they appear there.
But the one album I'd LOVE for them to remix and remaster is The Warning. More guitar and some modern power. Would be amazing!
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Also - what does Q3 means? the third incarnation of the band, with the first being Tate's albums and the second being LaTorre's albums (which implies both previous incarnations are a thing of the past), or the third version of "Queensryche" alongside the LaTorre lineup and solo Tate?
It's not a good choice either way :D
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Does the name "Queensr˙che 3" imply that he thinks Geoff Tate's 2013 Queensr˙che counts? That's odd, considering less than a decade ago he was (rightly) on the side of a lawsuit trying to prove it didn't.
-
i think he refers to the original lineup as Q1, then the TLT-fronted lineup, where he was a part of in the beginning as Q2 and now his incarnation is therefore Q3.
-
what if that is Emily Tate on vocals ;) ;D..... lets add that to any drama just for the sake of fun
do we have our first true Queen of the Reich?
Get her dressed up as the bosomy queen from the original video and you've got yourself a deal. ;D
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what if that is Emily Tate on vocals ;) ;D..... lets add that to any drama just for the sake of fun
do we have our first true Queen of the Reich?
Get her dressed up as the bosomy queen from the original video and you've got yourself a deal. ;D
and she has to be 7 ft tall !!
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i think he refers to the original lineup as Q1, then the TLT-fronted lineup, where he was a part of in the beginning as Q2 and now his incarnation is therefore Q3.
correct
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what if that is Emily Tate on vocals ;) ;D..... lets add that to any drama just for the sake of fun
do we have our first true Queen of the Reich?
Get her dressed up as the bosomy queen from the original video and you've got yourself a deal. ;D
Geoff has dressed his daughters up in worse things...
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i think he refers to the original lineup as Q1, then the TLT-fronted lineup, where he was a part of in the beginning as Q2 and now his incarnation is therefore Q3.
correct
Funny - I was under the impression that QR3 meant the second offshoot of QR, and that Tater's version from 2013 would have been considered QR2.
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That’s another thing. For years I’ve tried to excuse and turn a blind eye for how tone deaf they seem to be. But this whole thing is just sort of bringing all the other past things that I tried to ignore into clarity.
Seriously. How tone deaf is it to know that your Fanbase wants nothing more than the unplugged to get a release and to not even say anything. If you can’t, then for god sake‘s say something! Tell us why! Don’t just ignore us!
I’m just sick of the attitude of the entire band. I tried to excuse it for so long thinking it was just Geoff. I’ve only just now started to realize that it really is all of them and I’m just sick of it.
Also, why they never release the DVD of Operation Videocrime in any those special editions?
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Rockenfield has now added another audio player to his QR site, this one featuring a complete song, a demo of Toxic Remedy from 2014. I'm really not sure what the point of all this is.
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Interesting. He's added a whole bunch of stuff to the page now, including exclusive new "merchandi$e", live performances and rare music from the QR archives. Plus at the bottom there's a lowres image of "the band" with separate photos of him, Wilton and Jackson. To me this hints at him capitalizing on QR in some sort of rogue fashion more than him putting together a new competing version of QR.
Rockenfield has now added another audio player to his QR site, this one featuring a complete song, a demo of Toxic Remedy from 2014. I'm really not sure what the point of all this is.
Probably to give a sampling (and proof) of the rarities from the QR archives).
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Wow. That website layout. Geez. So many fonts. So. Many. Fonts.
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Rockenfield has now added another audio player to his QR site, this one featuring a complete song, a demo of Toxic Remedy from 2014. I'm really not sure what the point of all this is.
Damn. This is going to get ugly again...
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I wonder if he’s decided to sit at home and just take stems of older Queensryche material and completely mix it from scratch to his liking. He could create almost anything with stems from previous recording sessions. And if he has equal rights to the Queensryche name....
That’s just me thinking out loud
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Maybe Todd and Parker are getting kicked out of the band?
This is too weird.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/cd03a3_5192cae3f2c544c8b09119680e991484~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_894,h_543,al_c,lg_1,q_85/The%20Band%202021-%20web%20front%20promo1.webp)
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At the moment I am in doubt as to whether Scott needs a designer/marketing specialist or a psychiatrist.
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Also, this is from Todd's Facebook, replying to a comment about Scott:
haven't heard from him in years. If he wanted to play again that would be news to me.
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Maybe Todd and Parker are getting kicked out of the band?
This is too weird.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/cd03a3_5192cae3f2c544c8b09119680e991484~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_894,h_543,al_c,lg_1,q_85/The%20Band%202021-%20web%20front%20promo1.webp)
They were kicked out of the imaginary band in his head.
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(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/cd03a3_5192cae3f2c544c8b09119680e991484~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_894,h_543,al_c,lg_1,q_85/The%20Band%202021-%20web%20front%20promo1.webp)
Here's another pic, Scott second from the right.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0gHe5OSsXk0/maxresdefault.jpg)
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:rollin
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Also, why they never release the DVD of Operation Videocrime in any those special editions?
The one from the Empire tour? Yeah, that needs a proper DVD and/or Blu-ray release. Heck, Mindcrime is only my 3rd or 4th favorite album by the band, but that performance was incredible and I'd love to get a good copy of that.
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That Toxic Remedy demo on Scott's new site very obviously has Todd's voice on it. I don't know why Scott would put out a demo with that if there is strife between him and the rest of the band. Has anyone who "joined the legion" there yet (I don't want to do this just now) seen any of the InnerViews and Queensryche images that seem to be available yet?
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Rockenfield has now added another audio player to his QR site, this one featuring a complete song, a demo of Toxic Remedy from 2014. I'm really not sure what the point of all this is.
Damn. This is going to get ugly again...
Hard to see how it couldn't. Not sure what Scott is doing. I will say the demo of Toxic Remedy is cool.
Has Ed or Michael said anything since all this popped up?
I don't know what the band's agreement looks like NOW, but when it was put together after the split, I believe Scott, Ed, and Michael were the principals. Todd and Parker were employees. That could have changed, but if memory serves me right, that was the original configuration. So if Scott is doing this on his own, without the permission of at least one other principal member, I'm not sure what to think.
The confusion, however, is off the charts.
My guess is, the speculation is driving interest (we're all talking about it) which is what Scott is wanting. The same with listing all that "merchandi$e" on the website promoting things he knows fans would gobble up. Make him some money.
If this is all being done by Scott alone and not authorized by the band, here comes another lawsuit...unless Scott is banking on them not being able to afford another messy legal affair. Using the Queensryche name was one thing. Surprised he used the imagery of Michael and Ed, especially if it was without permission. Which at this point, none of us know.
It's all so ridiculous. Just end the damn band already. Such a disgrace.
Bad enough Capitol Records basically mailed it in with the lackluster re-releases of Empire and Mindcrime. Now we have this mess too. ::)
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p.s. bosk1 - about Dirty Lil Secret
It came out during the PL era as a B-side. I'm not necessarily sure that it was recorded during the Empire sessions. It may have been recorded at the same time Real World was. There isn't much information on Dirty Lil Secret. I am editing the PL section of the book now, and what I am basically going to say in there is it was a B-Side from the Promised Land era that was released on ******** single (I forget which at the moment) as a B-Side. But further information on the track, and when it was recorded is unknown, but it likely originated in late-1992 or early-1993. It's basically the one song nothing really exists about. I know I remember someone in the band saying once that it was one of those songs that didn't fit the vibe they ultimately went for with PL. But that's all I remember. So the book will mention it, put it in with PL, etc.
But it absolutely should not be on the Empire remaster and such as a b-side of that record. It wasn't. It was a b-side from one of the songs on PL, and while I don't have any definitive proof, my guess is it was recorded around the same time Real World was.
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Also, why they never release the DVD of Operation Videocrime in any those special editions?
The one from the Empire tour?
No, it’s a 30 minutes (maybe a bit more) VHS with all the videoclips from the album. Those videos are all excellent!
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Dev,
Thats Video Mindcrime. It was released on the 20th or 25th anniversary edition of Mindcrime. Its a blue box set.
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That Toxic Remedy demo on Scott's new site very obviously has Todd's voice on it. I don't know why Scott would put out a demo with that if there is strife between him and the rest of the band.
Perhaps it's to bait the other guys into doing something. Or it could just be proof that he's got rarities from the QR vault that he's planning to share/$ell. ;)
I will say the demo of Toxic Remedy is cool.
Totally agree - love stuff like that. If there's one positive that comes out of this weird situation, I hope that we'll see stuff like this be made available to the fans for purchase or otherwise.
Has Ed or Michael said anything since all this popped up?
Tho I know you've taken a step back, I think we probably all believe you'd know before the rest of us, especially with your connections in writing the book.
Surprised he used the imagery of Michael and Ed, especially if it was without permission. Which at this point, none of us know.
That and the tri-ryche from the cover of the 2013 s/t album being used as part of the background image on the website.
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This is why I now only listen to the EP- Hear in the Now Frontier and pretend anything after that never happened. Pretty simple for me
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(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/cd03a3_5192cae3f2c544c8b09119680e991484~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_894,h_543,al_c,lg_1,q_85/The%20Band%202021-%20web%20front%20promo1.webp)
Here's another pic, Scott second from the right.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0gHe5OSsXk0/maxresdefault.jpg)
Why there's a lineup with QR members if the photo is different and there's no one else aside Scott? :lol
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(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/cd03a3_5192cae3f2c544c8b09119680e991484~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_894,h_543,al_c,lg_1,q_85/The%20Band%202021-%20web%20front%20promo1.webp)
Here's another pic, Scott second from the right.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0gHe5OSsXk0/maxresdefault.jpg)
Why there's a lineup with QR members if the photo is different and there's no one else aside Scott? :lol
I think you failed to miss the joke that TAC made, substituting his favorite band for Scott and his supposed version of QR. :biggrin:
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This is why I now only listen to the EP- Hear in the Now Frontier and pretend anything after that never happened. Pretty simple for me
everything post PL for me, until Todd came along.
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Dev,
Thats Video Mindcrime. It was released on the 20th or 25th anniversary edition of Mindcrime. Its a blue box set.
Assuming you meant Kev, not Dev ;), duly noted. I will have to seek that out.
This is why I now only listen to the EP- Hear in the Now Frontier and pretend anything after that never happened. Pretty simple for me
I like Right Side of My Mind from Q2K a lot, but aside from that and a few Hear in the Now Frontier songs that I will listen to once a year or so, I get my Queensryche fix by listening (now that I am adding the EP into the mix) to 1983-1994 material. But really, I would imagine 90% of my Queensryche listening time goes to Promised Land and Rage for Order. :hat
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Ugh, this "band"... The idea that there's a common goal, passion or ability to put out anything remotely affecting at this point is completely risible to me.
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clicking Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-3CD-DVD-Queensryche/dp/B083XX252G/ref=sr_1_1?ascsubtag=3281580f0a7bf66e08f11850ecbd5eee&dchild=1&fbclid=IwAR0PcGe4qyKodteHkhP5L-lona-2mCPYPBZ5PioeT9MIdqlA_nfcH2TJbmE&linkCode=as2&qid=1620943030&sr=8-1
For 'discovermusic'
https://shop.udiscovermusic.com/collections/queensryche?fbclid=IwAR0PcGe4qyKodteHkhP5L-lona-2mCPYPBZ5PioeT9MIdqlA_nfcH2TJbmE
discovermusic has all the track listings
Guess these are must gets. Wish Promised Land were included and I'd never need anything else from Queensryche again. MTV probably owns unplugged so that isn't likely to see the light of day anytime soon.
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I never got into any QR stuff after Promised Land, and have only sampled a few things since then, enough to know I wasn’t interested. Then the Tate stuff happened and now this just makes me very happy to not have invested much in this band beyond Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land.
I stopped at Mindcrime I and II at the Moore, but I probably shouldn't have gotten that far. Changed my tune a bit on Hear and The Now Frontier. Like the Take Cover album and most of American Soldier which surprised me because I was close to pulling the cord before then.
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Extremely disappointed about both the Empire and Mindcrime editions, and whatever the sound clip is on Scott Rock's QR site.
Empire and Mindcrime remastered...again. Cool. Bonus tracks, same stuff as usual. Just sort of repackaged around. The only thing that catches my eye is, on Mindcrime, Live in Wisconsin...is that LIVEcrime? I assume so. But so much of all this stuff on both records is available everywhere, and has been available everywhere.
Cool for fans who may not have gotten any of that stuff, but for hardcores, who I would expect these are aimed at, there's nothing "collectable" here except more commentary from Tate.
Pass. Sadly.
You're right. Sounds like LIVEcrime to me but I suppose it would be nice to have an alternate show if that is still available
I never upgraded from video so the London show for me is the only think that will be new for me. I like that they are remastered at Abbey Road so maybe that will be an improvement and I can ditch my other copies. It will be nice to have everything in one place, but that's the only attraction I can see so I'm a reluctant yes.
Likely this will be my last Queensryche purchases ever.
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Dev,
Thats Video Mindcrime. It was released on the 20th or 25th anniversary edition of Mindcrime. Its a blue box set.
Thanks! I didn't know that it was released in DVD, cool. Those videos are all very well done and they give an interesting resume of the album's history :tup
Edit: this one, right?
https://www.discogs.com/Queensr%C3%BFche-Operation-Mindcrime/release/2900306
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I never got into any QR stuff after Promised Land, and have only sampled a few things since then, enough to know I wasn’t interested. Then the Tate stuff happened and now this just makes me very happy to not have invested much in this band beyond Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land.
I stopped at Mindcrime I and II at the Moore, but I probably shouldn't have gotten that far. Changed my tune a bit on Hear and The Now Frontier. Like the Take Cover album and most of American Soldier which surprised me because I was close to pulling the cord before then.
Have you ever heard any of the Todd-era music? If you haven't, I think you'd be selling yourself short! Far better than anything they have done post-PL.
Extremely disappointed about both the Empire and Mindcrime editions, and whatever the sound clip is on Scott Rock's QR site.
Empire and Mindcrime remastered...again. Cool. Bonus tracks, same stuff as usual. Just sort of repackaged around. The only thing that catches my eye is, on Mindcrime, Live in Wisconsin...is that LIVEcrime? I assume so. But so much of all this stuff on both records is available everywhere, and has been available everywhere.
Cool for fans who may not have gotten any of that stuff, but for hardcores, who I would expect these are aimed at, there's nothing "collectable" here except more commentary from Tate.
Pass. Sadly.
You're right. Sounds like LIVEcrime to me but I suppose it would be nice to have an alternate show if that is still available
I never upgraded from video so the London show for me is the only think that will be new for me. I like that they are remastered at Abbey Road so maybe that will be an improvement and I can ditch my other copies. It will be nice to have everything in one place, but that's the only attraction I can see so I'm a reluctant yes.
Likely this will be my last Queensryche purchases ever.
Considering that everything else just seems to be a rehash of what's already available except newly remastered (oh yay - again? ::)) I doubt that the live O:M from Wisconsin is anything but LIVEcrime. Can't see/understand why you'd think either of these box sets is worth purchasing if you already have everything, which I believe you do.
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Seems like the first album they did with Todd had a few good songs, but the sound quality was so bad that I eventually deleted the songs from my iTunes. It was like listening to music on a transistor radio in the 80's again.
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Oh boy - here we go.... :corn
Todd decides to sell some old Scott Rockenfield drum sticks on eBay here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265161506400
Scott reacts by posting on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/scott.rockenfield)
Much interesting interaction these days…not even sure where to begin with this one?…Maybe you can help..? Gonna pose a question / love to hear any feedback? :
“basic question” : “WHAT WOULD YOU DO “ ?
as follows:
— ‘IMAGINE this ” - You are the original founding member (+2 partners) : INTERNATIONAL BRAND / TRADEMARK/ EQUAL AS OWNERS / PARTNERS / SHAREHOLDERS / DIRECTORS etc… an “employee/staff member” has been-and is currently still selling “YOUR PERSONAL” items which include YOUR “personal autograph” and are owned by You (the owner?) ? …and all for his own profit? ….. ..?
“WHAT WOULD YOU DO “ ?
Todd then responds on his Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/Official.ToddLaTorre)
These are mine to do what I want with. He gave them to me, 8 years ago, because he was going to throw them away and I asked if I could have them to which he said yes. Lol, he threw sticks out every night at shows, and some people decide to sell such items on Ebay. It is totally legal and this is my property to do what I want with, so I am and I will. People sell items with logos and signatures all day long, it's called memorabilia, not trademark infringement lol. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to sell a car. I would be more upset releasing and selling a private demo (with my lyrics, melodies, and voice) on a website without the band's knowledge or consent, but that's just me lol. The guy bails on the band and fans for years now and he is upset about this? Good grief.
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Yikes. Neither comes off well there at all. Todd is probably more in the right, but the tone and attitude of his comments make me think he is no better than Tate. I guess he fits right in, given the ugly history of the band. Somewhere, Chris DeMargo has to be happy as hell to have gotten away from this clown show.
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:facepalm: :corn :omg: :rollin :mehlin
All at once :lol
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Yikes. Neither comes off well there at all. Todd is probably more in the right, but the tone and attitude of his comments make me think he is no better than Tate. I guess he fits right in, given the ugly history of the band. Somewhere, Chris DeMargo has to be happy as hell to have gotten away from this clown show.
I spent about three seconds thinking "who is Chris DeMargo"? :biggrin:
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Much interesting interaction these days…not even sure where to begin with this one?…Maybe you can help..? Gonna pose a question / love to hear any feedback? :
“basic question” : “WHAT WOULD YOU DO “ ?
as follows:
— ‘IMAGINE this ” - You are the original founding member (+2 partners) : INTERNATIONAL BRAND / TRADEMARK/ EQUAL AS OWNERS / PARTNERS / SHAREHOLDERS / DIRECTORS etc… an “employee/staff member” has been-and is currently still selling “YOUR PERSONAL” items which include YOUR “personal autograph” and are owned by You (the owner?) ? …and all for his own profit? ….. ..?
“WHAT WOULD YOU DO “ ?
Jesus Christ, why do people find it so hard to type coherently? :facepalm:
Yeah, I'm siding with Todd on this one. You'd think if Scott was so precious about what people do with his drumsticks, maybe he would've, like... kept them... or something? :\
Of course Todd could've asked, but that's a bit difficult when you've disappeared off the face of the earth for over a year
It seems to me like he's just using this completely ordinary situation to fuel whatever beef he had with Todd already, which makes it stupid that this petty shit is made public while the actual source of the contention is kept private.
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I gotta say, I find with the sudden activity from Scott out of nowhere, Todd deciding to put theses on Ebay for sale is a bit of a dick move. He's done this on purpose by the looks of it.
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I gotta say, I find with the sudden activity from Scott out of nowhere, Todd deciding to put theses on Ebay for sale is a bit of a dick move. He's done this on purpose by the looks of it.
And it wasn't very smart. The strangeness was all on the Rockenfield side of the force.
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I gotta say, I find with the sudden activity from Scott out of nowhere, Todd deciding to put theses on Ebay for sale is a bit of a dick move. He's done this on purpose by the looks of it.
And it wasn't very smart. The strangeness was all on the Rockenfield side of the force.
Todd is fueling the fire. Scott was already looking like a fuckwit on his own merit, Todd has just brought himself down and the name of the band. He's put the current lineups integrity into question IMO. unless there's more going on behind the scenes that we know about, but what would Eddie and Micheal think of Todd's written response. Not smart at all, regardless if he is in the right or not.
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Im giddy ,,, thank you Santa. The drama is better than the music
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I gotta say, I find with the sudden activity from Scott out of nowhere, Todd deciding to put theses on Ebay for sale is a bit of a dick move. He's done this on purpose by the looks of it.
100%
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I can see through the Todd shenanigans a mile away. I think that EBay account of his has 25 transactions...but now is the time to sell Scott’s drum sticks........yeah
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I can see through the Todd shenanigans a mile away. I think that EBay account of his has 25 transactions...but now is the time to sell Scott’s drum sticks........yeah
Exactly.
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On the one hand, I really wish Todd could have held off on his Ebay shenanigans. On the other hand, I could not imagine dealing with a so-called business partner/"boss" doing what Scott Rockenfield is doing now. Nietzsche's abyss staring quote from "Beyond Good and Evil" applies right now.
Honestly, while I know that he most likely won't ever have as large a platform for his music again if he does this, I almost hope that Todd just walks away from this fiasco and makes more music under his name (or reunites with Crimson Glory if he and the rest of the guys there can patch things up with Jon Drenning). After listening to the 4 albums with Todd on lead vocals, I find his solo album to be by far the best, and I cannot wait to hear a second solo album from him (it seems like Rejoice in the Suffering did well enough on Rat Pak for them to probably give Todd the green light for a second solo album even if he leaves the Ryche).
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Yeah, I thought his solo album was really fantastic. Not quite sure where I'd rate it against his Queensryche records though.
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Much interesting interaction these days…not even sure where to begin with this one?…Maybe you can help..? Gonna pose a question / love to hear any feedback? :
“basic question” : “WHAT WOULD YOU DO “ ?
as follows:
— ‘IMAGINE this ” - You are the original founding member (+2 partners) : INTERNATIONAL BRAND / TRADEMARK/ EQUAL AS OWNERS / PARTNERS / SHAREHOLDERS / DIRECTORS etc… an “employee/staff member” has been-and is currently still selling “YOUR PERSONAL” items which include YOUR “personal autograph” and are owned by You (the owner?) ? …and all for his own profit? ….. ..?
“WHAT WOULD YOU DO “ ?
Jesus Christ, why do people find it so hard to type coherently? :facepalm:
Exactly my thoughts :lol
Gloves are off now, I agree that Todd definitively sold the drumsticks on purpouse just to cash in a little bit on Scott's name. And for a guy to walk out of the band and then calling the current singer an "employee".... who knows what's behind this.
Ah, it's again :corn time!
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Todd back then: "Cool, I got drumsticks from one of my favorite drummers"
Todd now: "One of my favorite drummers has turned into a complete :censored, time to get rid of my memorabilia of him"
But instead of selling it on ebay he should have just thrown them away.
But the interesting bit is that TLT says, what Scott does publish and show in his website is without the band's consent. :corn
And by now I think Todd is the only one that cares about making music and he may be the only one to speak his mind, although he's just an "employee", there's nothing from Wilton and Jackson (again) and nothing official from them concerning Scott's QR3.
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I am a fan of the band's music but I know next to nothing about them. Have Wilton and Jackson ever been the types to comment on anything publicly? I think I remember seeing them pop in interviews after the Tate split for a bit and once in a blue moon maybe do something to promote a new album. Other than that they always come across as guys content with being in the background.
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If Todd is an employee, maybe Wilton and Jackson are preparing something legally and can't comment on the situation. Todd wouldn't be subject to not commenting. He might be the only "QR backchannel" that the band can use without compromising the legal side.
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I remember doing a deep dive through QRs discography along side the Samsara discog thread and found lots of material to enjoy but this drama is way more entertsining than a good chunk of their material. QR to me is a band who wasted a ton of great opportunities and has now become a completely joke. They should fund their next work with a reality show entitled "Real Housewives of Queensryche"
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I remember doing a deep dive through QRs discography along side the Samsara discog thread and found lots of material to enjoy but this drama is way more entertsining than a good chunk of their material. QR to me is a band who wasted a ton of great opportunities and has now become a completely joke. They should fund their next work with a reality show entitled "Real Housewives of Queensryche"
Definitely. I think the same way.
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I think many now understand what Tate was left with when Chris left.
Im happy for Geoff, he must me chuckling. Chris left Geoff with a total mess and no partner to collaborate with, only back bench lackeys,
Todd must be like "wtf am I doing here, these guys are just followers with no plan and dont even want to work" I knew Todd and Scott could never coexist and once Scotts wife pulled the plug and he had the baby with the girlfriend it was going to explode" I think Scott is tired of all of them and the 'wives" issue is real within the stress of the band. Scott now doesnt fit socially or musically, Scotts ex was very involved with the wives... there are many layers to this unraveling and and Id go so far as to say Scott was never pleased with Todds drumming and talk in hte press on how hes a drummer and fills in for Scott at sound checks, etc, Scott is an incredible amazing drummer and the way Todd talked it was like "i can do that too" Todds tough to like IMO, hes too much too fast for really a nobody before QR, If I was betting man Id bet they wish never broke with Tate
I cant wait for QR4
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If Todd is an employee, maybe Wilton and Jackson are preparing something legally and can't comment on the situation. Todd wouldn't be subject to not commenting. He might be the only "QR backchannel" that the band can use without compromising the legal side.
My guess is Wilton and Jackson will do nothing. zero. They will just do what those always do, the least effort to get the most easy money. what they really needed to do was tell Todd " I know you love Casey, but Scotts coming back period" but they knew Todd would walk out , This must have happened 6 months ago or so for Scott to be this far down the road , Id bet they are not as surprised as we would think, The more I think about it also Id say Scott working with Geoff is not going to happen either if the wife issue is a big issue, although I could see Geoff singing on some Scottyryche stuff down the road as Geoff likes to do new things now and enjoys hard work.
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Even though Scott has never struck me as anything more than a solid, good rock drummer, I realized the other day that that simple fill that leads into the 2nd verse of I Will Remember is one of those that I air drum (or tap to the beat to on my steering wheel when driving :lol) every single time.
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Even though Scott has never struck me as anything more than a solid, good rock drummer, I realized the other day that that simple fill that leads into the 2nd verse of I Will Remember is one of those that I air drum (or tap to the beat to on my steering wheel when driving :lol) every single time.
Scott is one of the very best IMO hes really got a unique sound and can do anything. been enjoying his work on Tribe a lot lately
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what they really needed to to do was tell Todd " I know you love Casey, but Scotts coming back period" but they knew Todd would walk out ,
Are you reporting this as happened? Not busting, just asking. Are you saying that Todd would've walked if Scott came back?
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Even though Scott has never struck me as anything more than a solid, good rock drummer, I realized the other day that that simple fill that leads into the 2nd verse of I Will Remember is one of those that I air drum (or tap to the beat to on my steering wheel when driving :lol) every single time.
Scott was GREAT on their classic albums, especially on the EP and Warning.
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Todd must be like "wtf am I doing here, these guys are just followers with no plan and dont even want to work"
I beg to differ on that - if that was true, then you can be sure he would've split from the band not long after joining them like he did with Crimson Glory, and we would have never had the 3 (soon to be 4) albums with Todd on vocals.
I knew Todd and Scott could never coexist and once Scotts wife pulled the plug and he had the baby with the girlfriend it was going to explode"
Was it that Misty pulled the plug first, or was it that Scott slept around, knocked up someone else and then was slapped with divorce papers? From what little there has been said, the indication is that the divorce was a reaction to Scott's affair. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I think Scott is tired of all of them and the 'wives" issue is real within the stress of the band. Scott now doesnt fit socially or musically, Scotts ex was very involved with the wives... there are many layers to this unraveling
Sounds like you have more of an inside scoop than you're letting on, or is this just you hypothesizing?
Id go so far as to say Scott was never pleased with Todds drumming and talk in hte press on how hes a drummer and fills in for Scott at sound checks, etc
That might be true and I can believe that, but if the guy refuses to return to the band, what are the rest of the guys supposed to do? Wait until he's ready and then finally do another album? If anything, I think they handled it as respectfully as they could by having Todd do the drumming on The Verdict rather than Casey, since Casey was still just considered a fill in drummer at that time. And IIRC, Todd even commented that he tried to approach playing the drums as if it were Scott, rather than trying to put his own spin on things.
the way Todd talked it was like "i can do that too"
I could be wrong on this, but I don't think Todd ever tried to compare himself to Scott or imply that he was as good or better. That said, Todd *is* a drummer, so it's not as if he can't play.
Todds tough to like IMO, hes too much too fast for really a nobody before QR
Because he's not afraid to confront a situation? Don't forget he's already been in the band for 9 years - longer than the Beatles were an active entity, and almost as long as Led Zeppelin was active. Like it or not, I think he's earned the right to speak up and even to represent the band, if Michael and Eddie don't have an issue with that. And as others have posted, those guys seem to prefer not to say much, and if there is legal action brewing (which there probably is), they might not be in a position to speak publicly even though they want to.
If I was betting man Id bet they wish never broke with Tate
Fix that for you. You might feel that way, but given the decade plus that they suffered under Tater's dictatorship, I'd bet otherwise.
My guess is Wilton and Jackson will do nothing. zero.
....because they clearly did NOTHING back in 2012, right? ::)
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what they really needed to to do was tell Todd " I know you love Casey, but Scotts coming back period" but they knew Todd would walk out ,
Are you reporting this as happened? Not busting, just asking. Are you saying that Todd would've walked if Scott came back?
from what I have heard / been told it appears there is not a lot of love between Todd and Scott.
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Todd must be like "wtf am I doing here, these guys are just followers with no plan and dont even want to work"
I beg to differ on that - if that was true, then you can be sure he would've split from the band not long after joining them like he did with Crimson Glory, and we would have never had the 3 (soon to be 4) albums with Todd on vocals.
I knew Todd and Scott could never coexist and once Scotts wife pulled the plug and he had the baby with the girlfriend it was going to explode"
Was it that Misty pulled the plug first, or was it that Scott slept around, knocked up someone else and then was slapped with divorce papers? From what little there has been said, the indication is that the divorce was a reaction to Scott's affair. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I think Scott is tired of all of them and the 'wives" issue is real within the stress of the band. Scott now doesnt fit socially or musically, Scotts ex was very involved with the wives... there are many layers to this unraveling
Sounds like you have more of an inside scoop than you're letting on, or is this just you hypothesizing?
Id go so far as to say Scott was never pleased with Todds drumming and talk in hte press on how hes a drummer and fills in for Scott at sound checks, etc
That might be true and I can believe that, but if the guy refuses to return to the band, what are the rest of the guys supposed to do? Wait until he's ready and then finally do another album? If anything, I think they handled it as respectfully as they could by having Todd do the drumming on The Verdict rather than Casey, since Casey was still just considered a fill in drummer at that time. And IIRC, Todd even commented that he tried to approach playing the drums as if it were Scott, rather than trying to put his own spin on things.
the way Todd talked it was like "i can do that too"
I could be wrong on this, but I don't think Todd ever tried to compare himself to Scott or imply that he was as good or better. That said, Todd *is* a drummer, so it's not as if he can't play.
Todds tough to like IMO, hes too much too fast for really a nobody before QR
Because he's not afraid to confront a situation? Don't forget he's already been in the band for 9 years - longer than the Beatles were an active entity, and almost as long as Led Zeppelin was active. Like it or not, I think he's earned the right to speak up and even to represent the band, if Michael and Eddie don't have an issue with that. And as others have posted, those guys seem to prefer not to say much, and if there is legal action brewing (which there probably is), they might not be in a position to speak publicly even though they want to.
If I was betting man Id bet they wish never broke with Tate
Fix that for you. You might feel that way, but given the decade plus that they suffered under Tater's dictatorship, I'd bet otherwise.
My guess is Wilton and Jackson will do nothing. zero.
....because they clearly did NOTHING back in 2012, right? ::)
:lol
Very pertinent and reasonable observations.
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Todd must be like "wtf am I doing here, these guys are just followers with no plan and dont even want to work"
I beg to differ on that - if that was true, then you can be sure he would've split from the band not long after joining them like he did with Crimson Glory, and we would have never had the 3 (soon to be 4) albums with Todd on vocals.
QR is a much bigger gig that CG, I have no ide why he left CG, is CG still even around?
I knew Todd and Scott could never coexist and once Scotts wife pulled the plug and he had the baby with the girlfriend it was going to explode"
Was it that Misty pulled the plug first, or was it that Scott slept around, knocked up someone else and then was slapped with divorce papers? From what little there has been said, the indication is that the divorce was a reaction to Scott's affair. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Not saying you are wrong Im just saying once she filed on him it was going to change scotts life and scotts relationship socially within the band and wives etc
I think Scott is tired of all of them and the 'wives" issue is real within the stress of the band. Scott now doesnt fit socially or musically, Scotts ex was very involved with the wives... there are many layers to this unraveling
Sounds like you have more of an inside scoop than you're letting on, or is this just you hypothesizing?
I cant say much but I dont have the clarity I did 25 years ago on them etc but I still hear things : )
Id go so far as to say Scott was never pleased with Todds drumming and talk in hte press on how hes a drummer and fills in for Scott at sound checks, etc
That might be true and I can believe that, but if the guy refuses to return to the band, what are the rest of the guys supposed to do? Wait until he's ready and then finally do another album? If anything, I think they handled it as respectfully as they could by having Todd do the drumming on The Verdict rather than Casey, since Casey was still just considered a fill in drummer at that time. And IIRC, Todd even commented that he tried to approach playing the drums as if it were Scott, rather than trying to put his own spin on things.
Knowing Scott a bit back in the day and his personality he takes his drumming very serious and considers himself elite which he is. Rockstars dont have to use logic LOL . it was more what Scott didnt say if that makes sense
the way Todd talked it was like "i can do that too"
I could be wrong on this, but I don't think Todd ever tried to compare himself to Scott or imply that he was as good or better. That said, Todd *is* a drummer, so it's not as if he can't play.
Im just saying That Todd even thinking he could fill in must have irked Scott and pushed Scott further away, Scott feels his drumming is a hallmark of their sound
Todds tough to like IMO, hes too much too fast for really a nobody before QR
Because he's not afraid to confront a situation? Don't forget he's already been in the band for 9 years - longer than the Beatles were an active entity, and almost as long as Led Zeppelin was active. Like it or not, I think he's earned the right to speak up and even to represent the band, if Michael and Eddie don't have an issue with that. And as others have posted, those guys seem to prefer not to say much, and if there is legal action brewing (which there probably is), they might not be in a position to speak publicly even though they want to.
Todd to me has taken over the band, its similar to Tates position, somebody has to be the leader
If I was betting man Id bet they wish never broke with Tate
Fix that for you. You might feel that way, but given the decade plus that they suffered under Tater's dictatorship, I'd bet otherwise.
Ill double down on my bet post Scotts departure
My guess is Wilton and Jackson will do nothing. zero.
....because they clearly did NOTHING back in 2012, right? ::)
Scott was really the leader of the ouster of Geoff, IMO Wilton and Jackson are like the wind..sadly Tates ouster was over a split between the wives and more about personal issues than the music or musical direction but it didnt help that dtc was met with very shall we say mixed reviews
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in the above response to SLS I put my comments in if you read closely I didnt do quoting correctly I tried LOL
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Even though Scott has never struck me as anything more than a solid, good rock drummer, I realized the other day that that simple fill that leads into the 2nd verse of I Will Remember is one of those that I air drum (or tap to the beat to on my steering wheel when driving :lol) every single time.
Scott was GREAT on their classic albums, especially on the EP and Warning.
Scotts really talented and a unique drummer for sure
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If one thinks back it was Wilton meeting a fan called Todd Latorre at NAMM that started the ouster of Tate, they would have never got rid of Tate if it wasnt for having that Rising West buzz, which to me was very underhanded and unfair to Tate. Tate said lets do solo albums and he went to do his and they all reformed without him and did the old classics without him. to me that was what broke up the band, they knew they had a "cheaper" replacement in their mind and it broke them up . if not Tate and the band would still be together PERIOD... funny how Scott had that turn on him !!! they found Casey hes cheaper and friends with Todd boom Scotts gone...
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Other than Todd and Wilton meeting at NAMM, everything you said in that paragraph is wrong.
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Other than Todd and Wilton meeting at NAMM, everything you said in that paragraph is wrong.
I guess we simply see it differently Boss. its all good
I can see an angle of "Scott did it to himself" but not on the Tate points...but its fun to discuss for sure
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It's not about "seeing it differently." The facts are the facts.
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It's not about "seeing it differently." The facts are the facts.
refresh me Boss if you like what did I forget in my old age?
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If one thinks back it was Wilton meeting a fan called Todd Latorre at NAMM that started the ouster of Tate, they would have never got rid of Tate if it wasnt for having that Rising West buzz, which to me was very underhanded and unfair to Tate. Tate said lets do solo albums and he went to do his and they all reformed without him and did the old classics without him. to me that was what broke up the band, they knew they had a "cheaper" replacement in their mind and it broke them up . if not Tate and the band would still be together PERIOD... funny how Scott had that turn on him !!! they found Casey hes cheaper and friends with Todd boom Scotts gone...
That is, there is only one culprit for everything that happened with the QR: TLT !!
Where are my torches and pitchforks? >:(
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If one thinks back it was Wilton meeting a fan called Todd Latorre at NAMM that started the ouster of Tate, they would have never got rid of Tate if it wasnt for having that Rising West buzz, which to me was very underhanded and unfair to Tate. Tate said lets do solo albums and he went to do his and they all reformed without him and did the old classics without him. to me that was what broke up the band, they knew they had a "cheaper" replacement in their mind and it broke them up . if not Tate and the band would still be together PERIOD... funny how Scott had that turn on him !!! they found Casey hes cheaper and friends with Todd boom Scotts gone...
That is, there is only one culprit for everything that happened with the QR: TLT !!
Where are my torches and pitchforks? >:(
Untrue... their can be only one leader though... it was Chris, then Geoff and now Todd. blame can be spread around : )
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in the above response to SLS I put my comments in if you read closely I didnt do quoting correctly I tried LOL
Glad you pointed that out - I would've missed all your responses!
QR is a much bigger gig that CG, I have no ide why he left CG, is CG still even around?
He left Crimson Glory because they stopped doing anything:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130210004215/http://www.bravewords.com/news/198498
I knew Todd and Scott could never coexist and once Scotts wife pulled the plug and he had the baby with the girlfriend it was going to explode"
Was it that Misty pulled the plug first, or was it that Scott slept around, knocked up someone else and then was slapped with divorce papers? From what little there has been said, the indication is that the divorce was a reaction to Scott's affair. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Not saying you are wrong Im just saying once she filed on him it was going to change scotts life and scotts relationship socially within the band and wives etc
That might be the case, but that's something that he brought on himself and he should have thought about before cheating on his wife. ;)
I cant say much but I dont have the clarity I did 25 years ago on them etc but I still hear things : )
Would be curious to know who you hear these things from, but I'm guessing you're not willing to reveal your sources, or are you? Do you have contact with Scott?
Id go so far as to say Scott was never pleased with Todds drumming and talk in hte press on how hes a drummer and fills in for Scott at sound checks, etc
That might be true and I can believe that, but if the guy refuses to return to the band, what are the rest of the guys supposed to do? Wait until he's ready and then finally do another album? If anything, I think they handled it as respectfully as they could by having Todd do the drumming on The Verdict rather than Casey, since Casey was still just considered a fill in drummer at that time. And IIRC, Todd even commented that he tried to approach playing the drums as if it were Scott, rather than trying to put his own spin on things.
Knowing Scott a bit back in the day and his personality he takes his drumming very serious and considers himself elite which he is. Rockstars dont have to use logic LOL . it was more what Scott didnt say if that makes sense
Perhaps, but if he considers himself elite (and by extension, a professional), doesn't he owe it to his bandmates (and business partners) to keep them abreast of what's going on, and for him to "man up" one way or the other (either play drums for the album, even if he didn't contribute to it, or allow someone else to play drums on the album in his place)?
the way Todd talked it was like "i can do that too"
I could be wrong on this, but I don't think Todd ever tried to compare himself to Scott or imply that he was as good or better. That said, Todd *is* a drummer, so it's not as if he can't play.
Im just saying That Todd even thinking he could fill in must have irked Scott and pushed Scott further away, Scott feels his drumming is a hallmark of their sound
But if he did - and I'm not saying he didn't have a right to feel that way - why didn't he do something about it, one way or the other?
Todds tough to like IMO, hes too much too fast for really a nobody before QR
Because he's not afraid to confront a situation? Don't forget he's already been in the band for 9 years - longer than the Beatles were an active entity, and almost as long as Led Zeppelin was active. Like it or not, I think he's earned the right to speak up and even to represent the band, if Michael and Eddie don't have an issue with that. And as others have posted, those guys seem to prefer not to say much, and if there is legal action brewing (which there probably is), they might not be in a position to speak publicly even though they want to.
Todd to me has taken over the band, its similar to Tates position, somebody has to be the leader
It might seem that way if he's the one who's doing all the interviews and speaking in behalf of the band, but that doesn't prove that he is. After all, MP was the one who in later years conducted the bulk of the interviews for DT, but while MP was certainly *a* bandleader in DT, JP also was.
If I was betting man Id bet they wish never broke with Tate
Fix that for you. You might feel that way, but given the decade plus that they suffered under Tater's dictatorship, I'd bet otherwise.
Ill double down on my bet post Scotts departure
I will too. Guess we'll have to wait to see how things develop to see one way or the other.
My guess is Wilton and Jackson will do nothing. zero.
....because they clearly did NOTHING back in 2012, right? ::)
Scott was really the leader of the ouster of Geoff, IMO Wilton and Jackson are like the wind..sadly Tates ouster was over a split between the wives and more about personal issues than the music or musical direction but it didnt help that dtc was met with very shall we say mixed reviews
Was he? I haven't read the court documents since they were posted, but IIRC, I think it was Michael that got wind of Tater's underhanded dealings in trying to shop and cash-in on O:M, and that's what really started getting the ball rolling on Tater's ouster. Got some proof to back up your assertion?
It's not about "seeing it differently." The facts are the facts.
refresh me Boss if you like what did I forget in my old age?
How about the part where Tater was gonna sell the rights to O:M, gain all the profits for himself and then call it quits on the band?
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"Tater" makes me giggle :lol
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in the above response to SLS I put my comments in if you read closely I didnt do quoting correctly I tried LOL
Glad you pointed that out - I would've missed all your responses!
QR is a much bigger gig that CG, I have no ide why he left CG, is CG still even around?
He left Crimson Glory because they stopped doing anything:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130210004215/http://www.bravewords.com/news/198498
I knew Todd and Scott could never coexist and once Scotts wife pulled the plug and he had the baby with the girlfriend it was going to explode"
Was it that Misty pulled the plug first, or was it that Scott slept around, knocked up someone else and then was slapped with divorce papers? From what little there has been said, the indication is that the divorce was a reaction to Scott's affair. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Not saying you are wrong Im just saying once she filed on him it was going to change scotts life and scotts relationship socially within the band and wives etc
That might be the case, but that's something that he brought on himself and he should have thought about before cheating on his wife. ;)
I cant say much but I dont have the clarity I did 25 years ago on them etc but I still hear things : )
Would be curious to know who you hear these things from, but I'm guessing you're not willing to reveal your sources, or are you? Do you have contact with Scott?
Id go so far as to say Scott was never pleased with Todds drumming and talk in hte press on how hes a drummer and fills in for Scott at sound checks, etc
That might be true and I can believe that, but if the guy refuses to return to the band, what are the rest of the guys supposed to do? Wait until he's ready and then finally do another album? If anything, I think they handled it as respectfully as they could by having Todd do the drumming on The Verdict rather than Casey, since Casey was still just considered a fill in drummer at that time. And IIRC, Todd even commented that he tried to approach playing the drums as if it were Scott, rather than trying to put his own spin on things.
Knowing Scott a bit back in the day and his personality he takes his drumming very serious and considers himself elite which he is. Rockstars dont have to use logic LOL . it was more what Scott didnt say if that makes sense
Perhaps, but if he considers himself elite (and by extension, a professional), doesn't he owe it to his bandmates (and business partners) to keep them abreast of what's going on, and for him to "man up" one way or the other (either play drums for the album, even if he didn't contribute to it, or allow someone else to play drums on the album in his place)?
the way Todd talked it was like "i can do that too"
I could be wrong on this, but I don't think Todd ever tried to compare himself to Scott or imply that he was as good or better. That said, Todd *is* a drummer, so it's not as if he can't play.
Im just saying That Todd even thinking he could fill in must have irked Scott and pushed Scott further away, Scott feels his drumming is a hallmark of their sound
But if he did - and I'm not saying he didn't have a right to feel that way - why didn't he do something about it, one way or the other?
Todds tough to like IMO, hes too much too fast for really a nobody before QR
Because he's not afraid to confront a situation? Don't forget he's already been in the band for 9 years - longer than the Beatles were an active entity, and almost as long as Led Zeppelin was active. Like it or not, I think he's earned the right to speak up and even to represent the band, if Michael and Eddie don't have an issue with that. And as others have posted, those guys seem to prefer not to say much, and if there is legal action brewing (which there probably is), they might not be in a position to speak publicly even though they want to.
Todd to me has taken over the band, its similar to Tates position, somebody has to be the leader
It might seem that way if he's the one who's doing all the interviews and speaking in behalf of the band, but that doesn't prove that he is. After all, MP was the one who in later years conducted the bulk of the interviews for DT, but while MP was certainly *a* bandleader in DT, JP also was.
If I was betting man Id bet they wish never broke with Tate
Fix that for you. You might feel that way, but given the decade plus that they suffered under Tater's dictatorship, I'd bet otherwise.
Ill double down on my bet post Scotts departure
I will too. Guess we'll have to wait to see how things develop to see one way or the other.
My guess is Wilton and Jackson will do nothing. zero.
....because they clearly did NOTHING back in 2012, right? ::)
Scott was really the leader of the ouster of Geoff, IMO Wilton and Jackson are like the wind..sadly Tates ouster was over a split between the wives and more about personal issues than the music or musical direction but it didnt help that dtc was met with very shall we say mixed reviews
Was he? I haven't read the court documents since they were posted, but IIRC, I think it was Michael that got wind of Tater's underhanded dealings in trying to shop and cash-in on O:M, and that's what really started getting the ball rolling on Tater's ouster. Got some proof to back up your assertion?
It's not about "seeing it differently." The facts are the facts.
refresh me Boss if you like what did I forget in my old age?
How about the part where Tater was gonna sell the rights to O:M, gain all the profits for himself and then call it quits on the band?
HiSLS its a fun discussion and thank you for the convo. I can only say what I can say but I will clarify I do NOT have direct access to Scott
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Out of all the bands I got into during the late 80’s, I would not have picked Queensryche as the one to be the most messed up in their later years.
What a shame.
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Out of all the bands I got into during the late 80’s, I would not have picked Queensryche as the one to be the most messed up in their later years.
What a shame.
I think thats why such a fun convo now looking back, as they had it all as far as talent. lots of frustration around them. just bad timing some of it.. and now this LOL :facepalm:
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Looks like Todd is also selling his Metallica Photo book. I mean the nerve of the guy!! Quick, somebody better tell Lars.
[edit: looks like he got 5 of these]
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metallica-The-Photographs-of-Ross-Halfin-by-Halfin-Ross-Paperback-Book/265110972331 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Metallica-The-Photographs-of-Ross-Halfin-by-Halfin-Ross-Paperback-Book/265110972331)
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Not seeing the problem with Todd selling the sticks. Scott is being a douche, Todd said fuck this guy, and is selling the memorabilia that is now tainted in his eyes.
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I have no issue with Todd's retort to Scott.
What's becoming apparent is that everyone in this band appears to be an asshole. No wonder Chris Demargo bailed.
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I have no issue with Todd's retort to Scott.
What's becoming apparent is that everyone in this band appears to be an asshole. No wonder Chris Demargo bailed.
This. The first thing I thought when reading all of this was “you know who’s both laughing harder, and rolling their eyes farther than us? Chris Fucking DeGarmo”.
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As far as Todd taking over the band, I think it's just a case of him being the most comfortable talking with the press. When Tate and DeGarmo were in the band, they seemed to do the bulk of interviews. Right after Tate left, Wilton definitely stepped it up with the media. However, after Todd was with them for a while, it appeared that he became the de facto mouthpiece of the band.
It would really be nice to know how the dynamics shifted within the band after Tate left. On the first album with Todd, Scott had songwriting credits on 9 out of 11 compositions. On Condition Human, he contributed to just 8 of the 15 songs.
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What's too bad is that the Toddryche material has been excellent.
One of my major musical regrets was dismissing the Tony Martin Era Black Sabbath out of hand because I thought I was being insulted as a fan by them calling it Black Sabbath. But if they had called the band..I don't know..Eternal Idol or something, I'd have been way more receptive to it.
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Not seeing the problem with Todd selling the sticks. Scott is being a douche, Todd said fuck this guy, and is selling the memorabilia that is now tainted in his eyes.
It's more the timing of it for me, not necessarily him selling them.
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One of my major musical regrets was dismissing the Tony Martin Era Black Sabbath out of hand because I thought I was being insulted as a fan by them calling it Black Sabbath. But if they had called the band..I don't know..Eternal Idol or something, I'd have been way more receptive to it.
I don't mind that actually but they were struggling at the time as it is, so not calling it Black Sabbath probably would have killed the band entirely.
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One of my major musical regrets was dismissing the Tony Martin Era Black Sabbath out of hand because I thought I was being insulted as a fan by them calling it Black Sabbath. But if they had called the band..I don't know..Eternal Idol or something, I'd have been way more receptive to it.
I don't mind that actually but they were struggling at the time as it is, so not calling it Black Sabbath probably would have killed the band entirely.
True, but the big difference there is that the Black Sabbath brand has never been severely weakened, so there was much to gain by calling it that.
In the case of Queensryche, their brand is so badly damaged that there can't be much benefit to using the name. I mean, if Rockenfield tours on the Q3 name, I am guessing, what, 233 people show up instead of 211 because it is called Queensryche?
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As...roughed up and diluted as the QR name is, particularly with Tate out there, and now the Rockenfield drama, the Queensryche brand is still a valuable one. It DOES matter. That's why Tate and EJ/MW/SR fought for it in the first place and settled with Tate to buy him out of his share of it. Promoters will pay for "Queensryche." They weren't going to pay for "Rising West."
This whole situation is probably a lot deeper than most people know. There's always some underlying issue, often dealing with money. I'd be speaking out of turn if I took some educated guesses on where this supposed "rift" is between Todd and Scott, or Scott and Queensryche. I do have some ideas. But I tend to look at changes, both artistic and financially. If you sniff around for long enough and connect the dots, you'll often find the bone of contention.
Simply put, what Scott seems to be trying to do (either having a QR of his own, or whatever his endgame is) is...ridiculous. Equally ridiculous is the singer taking a shot in response to him on social media. Pick up the damn phone and act like adults. Obviously, there are issues. Hash them out. Find a resolution in private, no matter how deep the issues are. But apparently they are unwilling or unable to do that.
In the end, the "legacy" (what's left of it) is damaged by whatever it is that is going on. Although I highly doubt DeGarmo is laughing as was suggested by someone above (more like thanking his lucky stars he bailed a long time ago and sold off his publishing), I'm sure Tate's chomping on some popcorn, as the longer this continues, it will likely drive more people to see him perform if QR and Scott end up competing under similar brand names. After all, Tate is performing Empire in-full (beating QR to the punch), Rage in-full (beating QR to the punch - its the 35th anniversary of that record now) and of course, his exclusive right to perform Mindcrime in its entirety. This stuff sells tickets. promoters pay more to the artist because of it. Nostalgia is a HUGE market, and Tate is in the pole position when it comes to Queensryche music. And Scott's actions are going to make it even better for Tate.
What a cluster fuck.
*edited to fix release anniversary of RFO.
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I won't argue that QR is a valuable name but I wonder how much of its value diminishes as these fractures and side bands take hold. If they could get the original QR lineup back together (except say CDG) that would be the most profitable tour they can hope to muster, but even that happened through some miracle they'd probably screw that up.
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What's too bad is that the Toddryche material has been excellent.
One of my major musical regrets was dismissing the Tony Martin Era Black Sabbath out of hand because I thought I was being insulted as a fan by them calling it Black Sabbath. But if they had called the band..I don't know..Eternal Idol or something, I'd have been way more receptive to it.
exactly bro really what Toddryche is is Rising West and NOT QR IMO , they hurt themselves with the name QR but they couldnt get booked without the QR name , much like Ripper JP and Blaze IM.. is not JP or IM IMO
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All you’re doing is reminding me that The X Factor and Jugulator are in the all time top 5 of their respective bands.
The follow ups to those albums however... :tdwn :tdwn :tdwn :\ :\ :yeahright
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Just following this thread for the LOLs, but wanted to say I went to one of those Rising West shows in.... I have no idea what year that was. I am a moderate QR fan at best, but I thoroughly enjoyed that show.
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Just following this thread for the LOLs, but wanted to say I went to one of those Rising West shows in.... I have no idea what year that was. I am a moderate QR fan at best, but I thoroughly enjoyed that show.
The year was 2012. I remember because so many people were howling about the end of the world.
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All you’re doing is reminding me that The X Factor and Jugulator are in the all time top 5 of their respective bands.
The follow ups to those albums however... :tdwn :tdwn :tdwn :\ :\ :yeahright
This guy gets it.
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All you’re doing is reminding me that The X Factor and Jugulator are in the all time top 5 of their respective bands.
The follow ups to those albums however... :tdwn :tdwn :tdwn :\ :\ :yeahright
This guy gets it.
Well, close. I would actually go with Demolition. I, personally, think it to be much better than Jugulator.
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I love Virtual XI. Never understood the anti-hype behind that one.
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I like it too. It isn't their best album, but to insinuate that those songs suck is crazy.
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Both VXI and Demolition have their moments, moreso VXI, but both IMO were big steps backwards from TXF and Jug.
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This kind of comment "is no longer the band X without the guy Z" always reminds me of a joke that a friend made, seriously saying that Iron Maiden without Dennis Stratton was no longer Iron Maiden. :lol
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This kind of comment "is no longer the band X without the guy Z" always reminds me of a joke that a friend made, seriously saying that Iron Maiden without Dennis Stratton was no longer Iron Maiden. :lol
I once saw a similar joke in reference to the Yes album Fly From Here: "no Peter banks, no Yes" :lol
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This kind of comment "is no longer the band X without the guy Z" always reminds me of a joke that a friend made, seriously saying that Iron Maiden without Dennis Stratton was no longer Iron Maiden. :lol
Rush without John Rutsey is no longer Rush!
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Majesty without Chris Collins is no longer....well then it became Dream Theater! :biggrin:
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Majesty without Chris Collins is no longer....well then it became Dream Theater! :biggrin:
Exactly ...see. :lol
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I love Virtual XI. Never understood the anti-hype behind that one.
VXI is like Chinese water torture.
At first, you think “This isn’t so bad. I don’t see what all the fuss is about.” But then time begins to loose all meaning. Minutes turn to hours and then weeks....and then it happens.
....after the 48th repeat of Don’t Look to the Eyes of a Stranger, something snaps in your mind and you hear someone sobbing only to realize that someone is you. Reality starts to come undone and you’re no longer certain of your own sanity. You start squeezing your own testicles as hard as you can in an effort to keep some grasp on what’s real...and the pain brings a new sense of clarity...along with the growing dread that if this doesn’t end soon, even that pain won’t be enough...
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J-Dude, Don't Look is awesome. That instrumental part at the end is amazing. Sure the Don't Look To is repeated a bit..a bit a bit a bit, but I like the song overall.
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Yeah and the "Don't Look" section actually slowly grows intensity as it goes along. I've always enjoyed the build-up. If Bruce were singing it would simply be regarded as yet another reunion era song with an overly repetitious chorus.
[late edit: guitar tone on this record isn't that great but most of the songs are solid]
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I see the vocals as more of an instrument in that section, adding to the dynamics rather than forcing itself to the forefront with lyrical prowess. In that context, I don't see it much differently than a repeated guitar riff, which I don't think would garner the same kind of controversy if that were used in its place.
It's the same with the buildup of The Angel & The Gambler. It's just used as another instrument to build dynamic, so it's fine. The part where it does the call & response with the guitar licks towards the end is much worse, because that one isn't building up to anything so its ending isn't as clearly in sight. But then again, I don't think it's that big of a deal.
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Obviously I was attempting over dramatization in an attempt at humor, but I guess it fell flat.
....but ya. The reason most people hate is because the repetition which was starting to get a bit lazy but tolerable since SiT, just became ludicrous on VXI. Obviously YMMV.
The reason I think AMOLAD is the best reunion album is directly because I feel the repetition is the least prominent on that album as compared to the rest of the reunion era.
But this is is probably for the Maiden thread
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Don't Look To is no worse than Brave New World or Dream of Mirrors. I know they were leftovers anyway but as said, if Bruce sung the song, I don't think it would be looked down on as much.
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Don't Look To is no worse than Brave New World or Dream of Mirrors. I know they were leftovers anyway but as said, if Bruce sung the song, I don't think it would be looked down on as much.
This is the exact reason I don’t hold BNW in as high regard as many others do. I was excited about the reunion, but ultimately disappointed with the execution (strictly because of the overuse of repetition)
AMOLAD won me back
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Nothing better than the poster child for a Steve Harris chorus:
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life?
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life?
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life?
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life? (Hmm)
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life?
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life? (Hmm)
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life?
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life?
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life? (Hmm)
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life?
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life?
Don't you think I'm a savior?
Don't you think I could save you?
Don't you think I could save your life? (Hmm) x1,000
I actually like that song, but I had to do a custom edit to remove some 4 or 5 minutes of the above on repeat.
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There's an excellent single edit out there which was well done of TAATG.
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Don't Look To is no worse than Brave New World or Dream of Mirrors. I know they were leftovers anyway but as said, if Bruce sung the song, I don't think it would be looked down on as much.
Not sure if Bruce could have saved the song, but the fact that he is a far better singer than Blaze would have made it at least more tolerable imo.
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There's an excellent single edit out there which was well done of TAATG.
Since this has become the Iron Maiden thread, I'll just say that the only problem of The Angel and the Gambler is the unnecessary length and repetition. If you trim it down to five minutes, you have a fun and concise rock n' roll song with retro influences and those addictive keyboard hits at the beginning. Masterpiece? hell no, but it's not the atrocious abomination that many fans make it out to be. Cut it down in half and it's a perfectly acceptable easy listening song.
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VXI is like Chinese water torture.
At first, you think “This isn’t so bad. I don’t see what all the fuss is about.” But then time begins to loose all meaning. Minutes turn to hours and then weeks....and then it happens.
....after the 48th repeat of Don’t Look to the Eyes of a Stranger, something snaps in your mind and you hear someone sobbing only to realize that someone is you. Reality starts to come undone and you’re no longer certain of your own sanity. You start squeezing your own testicles as hard as you can in an effort to keep some grasp on what’s real...and the pain brings a new sense of clarity...along with the growing dread that if this doesn’t end soon, even that pain won’t be enough...
The worst thing is that "Don't Look to the Eyes of a Stranger" is completely unnecessary advice. I have it on good authority that people always turn away from the eyes of a stranger. They don't need to be told.
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While Eyes of a Stranger is not my favorite Mindcrime song, it's a damn great tune perfectly fitting the theme of the album and a great closer.
(The comeback to QR from the detour was so good and elegant, that I didn't want to let it go to waste, so I left a random QR-related comment).
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I see the vocals as more of an instrument in that section, adding to the dynamics rather than forcing itself to the forefront with lyrical prowess. In that context, I don't see it much differently than a repeated guitar riff, which I don't think would garner the same kind of controversy if that were used in its place.
It's the same with the buildup of The Angel & The Gambler. It's just used as another instrument to build dynamic, so it's fine. The part where it does the call & response with the guitar licks towards the end is much worse, because that one isn't building up to anything so its ending isn't as clearly in sight. But then again, I don't think it's that big of a deal.
I agree with this 100%. For me, TA&TG has to be the full length version. I dig that song a lot.
(Also, one of my local stations uses the intro as the background music to one of their commercials for the nightly news program!)
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VXI is like Chinese water torture.
At first, you think “This isn’t so bad. I don’t see what all the fuss is about.” But then time begins to loose all meaning. Minutes turn to hours and then weeks....and then it happens.
....after the 48th repeat of Don’t Look to the Eyes of a Stranger, something snaps in your mind and you hear someone sobbing only to realize that someone is you. Reality starts to come undone and you’re no longer certain of your own sanity. You start squeezing your own testicles as hard as you can in an effort to keep some grasp on what’s real...and the pain brings a new sense of clarity...along with the growing dread that if this doesn’t end soon, even that pain won’t be enough...
The worst thing is that "Don't Look to the Eyes of a Stranger" is completely unnecessary advice. I have it on good authority that people always turn away from the eyes of a stranger. They don't need to be told.
And of course, Ronnie Dio reminded us of this all the way back in '83. Everyone knows that strangers are only there to do you harm. Hell, even RICK SPRINGFIELD knows this.
:)
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VXI is like Chinese water torture.
At first, you think “This isn’t so bad. I don’t see what all the fuss is about.” But then time begins to loose all meaning. Minutes turn to hours and then weeks....and then it happens.
....after the 48th repeat of Don’t Look to the Eyes of a Stranger, something snaps in your mind and you hear someone sobbing only to realize that someone is you. Reality starts to come undone and you’re no longer certain of your own sanity. You start squeezing your own testicles as hard as you can in an effort to keep some grasp on what’s real...and the pain brings a new sense of clarity...along with the growing dread that if this doesn’t end soon, even that pain won’t be enough...
The worst thing is that "Don't Look to the Eyes of a Stranger" is completely unnecessary advice. I have it on good authority that people always turn away from the eyes of a stranger. They don't need to be told.
And of course, Ronnie Dio reminded us of this all the way back in '83. Everyone knows that strangers are only there to do you harm. Hell, even RICK SPRINGFIELD knows this.
:)
AC/DC warned us as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckk_-Si0bvQ
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Oh the things you learn from AC/DC listening party thread!!!
/shameless plug
:angel:
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All of the recent drama involving Scott prompted me to look up some videos of Casey Grillo. Holy shit. This one absolutely blew my mind -- what a performance!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=si8_M1bgO4g
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Don't Look To is no worse than Brave New World or Dream of Mirrors. I know they were leftovers anyway but as said, if Bruce sung the song, I don't think it would be looked down on as much.
Dream of Mirrors is nowhere near as bad as the stuff on VXI. There is some repetition yes but it’s not just the same line repeated over and over. It’s never bothered me at all. Brave New World is not the best though, I agree. The BNW album as a whole though is a top 5 Iron Maiden album for me, maybe even higher. Virtual XI is bottom 5, maybe lower as I don’t know the pre-Dickinson albums very well.
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I never got into any QR stuff after Promised Land, and have only sampled a few things since then, enough to know I wasn’t interested. Then the Tate stuff happened and now this just makes me very happy to not have invested much in this band beyond Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land.
I stopped at Mindcrime I and II at the Moore, but I probably shouldn't have gotten that far. Changed my tune a bit on Hear and The Now Frontier. Like the Take Cover album and most of American Soldier which surprised me because I was close to pulling the cord before then.
Have you ever heard any of the Todd-era music? If you haven't, I think you'd be selling yourself short! Far better than anything they have done post-PL.
Not a lot. What I've heard, and it was a long time ago, didn't really thrill me. At least until American Soildier (which the exception of Mindcrime II) they seemed to be moving forward or maybe even sideways. What little I heard with Todd just seems kind of regressive to me. Maybe that's a minority viewpoint, maybe it isn't. Haven't followed Queensryche that closely for quite a long time to really know. I'd just rather focus on the music I enjoy and not spend much time on music that I don't. Most of the passion I had for this band left when Chris did. Don't blame anyone for it. Wasn't happy about it at the time. Just moved on is all.
Started getting fed up with the band politics when Chris left so I'm sure that figures in to it. Some bands I can just enjoy the music and not care about the behind the scenes stuff and some bands I can't. Depends on the band I guess.
Extremely disappointed about both the Empire and Mindcrime editions, and whatever the sound clip is on Scott Rock's QR site.
Empire and Mindcrime remastered...again. Cool. Bonus tracks, same stuff as usual. Just sort of repackaged around. The only thing that catches my eye is, on Mindcrime, Live in Wisconsin...is that LIVEcrime? I assume so. But so much of all this stuff on both records is available everywhere, and has been available everywhere.
Cool for fans who may not have gotten any of that stuff, but for hardcores, who I would expect these are aimed at, there's nothing "collectable" here except more commentary from Tate.
Pass. Sadly.
You're right. Sounds like LIVEcrime to me but I suppose it would be nice to have an alternate show if that is still available
I never upgraded from video so the London show for me is the only think that will be new for me. I like that they are remastered at Abbey Road so maybe that will be an improvement and I can ditch my other copies. It will be nice to have everything in one place, but that's the only attraction I can see so I'm a reluctant yes.
Likely this will be my last Queensryche purchases ever.
Considering that everything else just seems to be a rehash of what's already available except newly remastered (oh yay - again? ::)) I doubt that the live O:M from Wisconsin is anything but LIVEcrime. Can't see/understand why you'd think either of these box sets is worth purchasing if you already have everything, which I believe you do.
I do have it, but I never upgraded from video. I still don't have any digital copies of any video. Never bothered.
Also I'm curious to hear what the Abbey Road remasters sound like. But yeah, I'm not as enthusiastic as I should be about this. Your're right. Nothing I haven't seen before.
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I guess QR just played a show this week or last weekend and Parker was not with them. They had that Mike Stone guy in his place. Now people are wondering what is going on there.
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I guess QR just played a show this week or last weekend and Parker was not with them. They had that Mike Stone guy in his place. Now people are wondering what is going on there.
I saw a Facebook post from either Todd or the Queensryche page at the time, that sounded like Parker was temporarily unavailable. But, now I can't find the post
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I guess QR just played a show this week or last weekend and Parker was not with them. They had that Mike Stone guy in his place. Now people are wondering what is going on there.
I saw a Facebook post from either Todd or the Queensryche page at the time, that sounded like Parker was temporarily unavailable. But, now I can't find the post
IIRC this also happened a few years ago when Parker was unavailable, nothing new here.
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Giggle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmivgsnXaTQ
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I see their previous guitarist Mike Stone filling in for Parker......for reasons unknown. I hope Parker just couldn't make it as I enjoyed the songs he has writing credits on since the Tate split.
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Giggle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmivgsnXaTQ
Guessing less than 50 people there, seems like a sound check or rehearsal.
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Mike Stone has previously filled in for Parker when he was unavailable for a couple of shows. Nothing new. No drama. Move along :police:
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Mike Stone has previously filled in for Parker when he was unavailable for a couple of shows. Nothing new. No drama. Move along :police:
This band is just not QR period IMO... that was awful, why wouldnt Parker be there? what could he be doing that is more important?
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Mike Stone has previously filled in for Parker when he was unavailable for a couple of shows. Nothing new. No drama. Move along :police:
This band is just not QR period IMO... that was awful, why wouldnt Parker be there? what could he be doing that is more important?
We all know how much you dislike the band in its current form. It's getting old.
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Mike Stone has previously filled in for Parker when he was unavailable for a couple of shows. Nothing new. No drama. Move along :police:
This band is just not QR period IMO... that was awful, why wouldnt Parker be there? what could he be doing that is more important?
We all know how much you dislike the band in its current form. It's getting old.
am I to be bullied into thinking that was "good" or it makes sense that Parker couldnt make it? what else could he be doing? has nothing to do with anything but the fun of the drama.. am I to wax that that was "good"? Im more excited to see what Scottyryche will be , to me Toddsryche is old news and not that good, I didnt enjoy Caseys drumming at all ..thats simply my opinion but its great to discuss as. whats getting old is IMO how mailing it in it sounded again.,and whats the "current form"?? it appears to be ever changing between Casey, no Scott. Stone, no Parker, and Todd doing the drums in the studio etc. when did it become normal for Stone to sub for Parker? news to me that that is "normal" LOL and what is normal with this band period LOL
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Mike Stone has previously filled in for Parker when he was unavailable for a couple of shows. Nothing new. No drama. Move along :police:
This band is just not QR period IMO... that was awful, why wouldnt Parker be there? what could he be doing that is more important?
We all know how much you dislike the band in its current form. It's getting old.
am I to be bullied into thinking that was "good" or it makes sense that Parker couldnt make it? what else could he be doing? has nothing to do with anything but the fun of the drama.. am I to wax that that was "good"?
It's really none of your business what he is doing. And since you don't like this version of the band (as you've told us ad nauseum), why do you even care?
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Mike Stone has previously filled in for Parker when he was unavailable for a couple of shows. Nothing new. No drama. Move along :police:
This band is just not QR period IMO... that was awful, why wouldnt Parker be there? what could he be doing that is more important?
We all know how much you dislike the band in its current form. It's getting old.
am I to be bullied into thinking that was "good" or it makes sense that Parker couldnt make it? what else could he be doing? has nothing to do with anything but the fun of the drama.. am I to wax that that was "good"?
It's really none of your business what he is doing. And since you don't like this version of the band (as you've told us ad nauseum), why do you even care?
True its none of my business lol but isnt it interesting? Im interested , lots going on around this band
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am I to be bullied into thinking that was "good" or it makes sense that Parker couldnt make it?
It isn't about "bullying." You are free to like or dislike whatever you choose. But saying this is "not Queensryche" is getting old. And since it is factually incorrect, what it boils down to is that you are intentionally spreading misleading information. And that is a problem.
Like I said, feel free to like what you like, and to say how you feel. But when you state opinion as fact, it is a problem, and one you are likely to be called out on.
As for your points about it being good and about Parker:
-Thinking that was "good": Yeah, that was MORE than good. You can dislike it if you want, but that says more about you than the band.
-Parker: As stated above, whatever Parker has going on, that isn't really our business if he hasn't said. But this is not new. And I suspect it may be something as simple as him not being able to take time off work, which has also happened in the past. When your main source of income is a band that isn't able to earn income, you find other ways to earn income. And if those two income sources come into conflict, it isn't a stretch to assume one is going to favor the one that provides the most or steadiest income. Again, none of this would be a new thing with Parker, and none of it would be unique to Parker (or to this band).
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I guess QR just played a show this week or last weekend and Parker was not with them. They had that Mike Stone guy in his place. Now people are wondering what is going on there.
Queensryche have got to be the weirdest band out there when it comes to the dynamics of band members.
It almost points to "it's just a job" Just my opinion and thought. Though i do like most of their new stuff with Todd.
It's odd how they couldn't get a different replacement for Parker. Let's find the guy that played with us during our worst years, Can't find anyone else ?? Wonder what conversations they have with Stone ? Hey, I really like the work you did with Tate and Slater on OM2, man that's got to be one of our worst albums, lol (Excluding the last one with Tate)
The whole Scott thing, obviously the Tate drama. It's almost at the point of, just hang it up. But, it's must be profitable to some point.
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am I to be bullied into thinking that was "good" or it makes sense that Parker couldnt make it?
It isn't about "bullying." You are free to like or dislike whatever you choose. But saying this is "not Queensryche" is getting old. And since it is factually incorrect, what it boils down to is that you are intentionally spreading misleading information. And that is a problem.
Like I said, feel free to like what you like, and to say how you feel. But when you state opinion as fact, it is a problem, and one you are likely to be called out on.
As for your points about it being good and about Parker:
-Thinking that was "good": Yeah, that was MORE than good. You can dislike it if you want, but that says more about you than the band.
-Parker: As stated above, whatever Parker has going on, that isn't really our business if he hasn't said. But this is not new. And I suspect it may be something as simple as him not being able to take time off work, which has also happened in the past. When your main source of income is a band that isn't able to earn income, you find other ways to earn income. And if those two income sources come into conflict, it isn't a stretch to assume one is going to favor the one that provides the most or steadiest income. Again, none of this would be a new thing with Parker, and none of it would be unique to Parker (or to this band).
Boss I said " this is not QR IMO" again my opinion not as a fact. I dont think Tate is QR nor will I think Scottyryche is QR,. QR to me IMO is done and gone and the name should be retired IMO. all my opinion. There are few facts left with this band.
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Then you need to learn the difference between fact and opinion. "This is not QR" is a statement of fact, no matter how many "I think," "IMO," or whatever other tags you want to put on it. Whether or not it is QR isn't a matter of opinion. It is or it isn't, and that isn't up for debate. On the other hand, whether it "feels" like QR to you is a statement of opinion. If it doesn't feel like QR to you, that's cool. But that isn't what you said.
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I guess QR just played a show this week or last weekend and Parker was not with them. They had that Mike Stone guy in his place. Now people are wondering what is going on there.
Queensryche have got to be the weirdest band out there when it comes to the dynamics of band members.
It almost points to "it's just a job" Just my opinion and thought. Though i do like most of their new stuff with Todd.
It's odd how they couldn't get a different replacement for Parker. Let's find the guy that played with us during our worst years, Can't find anyone else ?? Wonder what conversations they have with Stone ? Hey, I really like the work you did with Tate and Slater on OM2, man that's got to be one of our worst albums, lol (Excluding the last one with Tate)
The whole Scott thing, obviously the Tate drama. It's almost at the point of, just hang it up. But, it's must be profitable to some point.
I agree and thats my point its all just wild drama and not making a whole lot of sense, but its all very interesting. Now Scott is saying he is QR and his band will be QR, is that a fact or an opinion of Scotts? who knows. why would they have dates booked and or book dates that Parker now cant attend? did they know that when they booked the date? IDK but its interesting and I agree on Stone who was ripped on for his sloppy playing when in QR with Tate etc
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Then you need to learn the difference between fact and opinion. "This is not QR" is a statement of fact, no matter how many "I think," "IMO," or whatever other tags you want to put on it. Whether or not it is QR isn't a matter of opinion. It is or it isn't, and that isn't up for debate. On the other hand, whether it "feels" like QR to you is a statement of opinion. If it doesn't feel like QR to you, that's cool. But that isn't what you said.
Sorry Boss I will try to clean that up in the future, my bad....I thought everyone knows its an opinion as the question is "who or what is QR lately" My apologies
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I guess QR just played a show this week or last weekend and Parker was not with them. They had that Mike Stone guy in his place. Now people are wondering what is going on there.
Queensryche have got to be the weirdest band out there when it comes to the dynamics of band members.
It almost points to "it's just a job" Just my opinion and thought. Though i do like most of their new stuff with Todd.
It's odd how they couldn't get a different replacement for Parker. Let's find the guy that played with us during our worst years, Can't find anyone else ?? Wonder what conversations they have with Stone ? Hey, I really like the work you did with Tate and Slater on OM2, man that's got to be one of our worst albums, lol (Excluding the last one with Tate)
The whole Scott thing, obviously the Tate drama. It's almost at the point of, just hang it up. But, it's must be profitable to some point.
Do you know Iced Earth?
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I guess QR just played a show this week or last weekend and Parker was not with them. They had that Mike Stone guy in his place. Now people are wondering what is going on there.
Queensryche have got to be the weirdest band out there when it comes to the dynamics of band members.
It almost points to "it's just a job" Just my opinion and thought. Though i do like most of their new stuff with Todd.
It's odd how they couldn't get a different replacement for Parker. Let's find the guy that played with us during our worst years, Can't find anyone else ?? Wonder what conversations they have with Stone ? Hey, I really like the work you did with Tate and Slater on OM2, man that's got to be one of our worst albums, lol (Excluding the last one with Tate)
The whole Scott thing, obviously the Tate drama. It's almost at the point of, just hang it up. But, it's must be profitable to some point.
More like "let's call the guy that already knows most of the setlist."
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am I to be bullied into thinking that was "good"
I'll be the first to say that the performance definitely seemed to be a bit phoned in - especially by Eddie and Michael. Michael only seemed to come alive during the solo, and Eddie only when the song ended, altho admittedly the camera wasn't on him for much of the time. But given that this is the first show they're playing in some time, you'd think they'd put more into the performance. At least Stone did, and from little I could see, so did Casey and to a lesser degree Todd. That said, I don't understand the issues you have with Todd as a front man. While I wouldn't want him to walk around all gloomy and "metal" like I remember seeing the "Metal God" do when he fronted his self-named band opening for QR and Maiden, I don't want some overly dramatic fake BS either, which I witnessed numerous times with Tater during the later years that I saw him front QR. At least Todd's the real deal. I'll take that over Tater's acting any day of the week.
It's odd how they couldn't get a different replacement for Parker. Let's find the guy that played with us during our worst years, Can't find anyone else ?? Wonder what conversations they have with Stone ? Hey, I really like the work you did with Tate and Slater on OM2, man that's got to be one of our worst albums, lol (Excluding the last one with Tate)
Actually, I think it makes perfect sense that they asked him to do the gig. While he's far from my favorite QR guitarist, at least he's already familiar with the material, unlike many others. Not only that, but they know the kind of guy that he is, since he was in the band for 6 years. Plus, he's filled in for Parker in the past. On top of that, let's remember that it was Tater and his wife that canned Stone - the other guys had nothing to do with it, just so they could get their future son-in-law the gig in the band. So when it became evident that Parker couldn't do the gig, it made perfect sense to see if Stone would do so - far more so than Kelly Gray (who's still Tater's buddy) and CDG who wouldn't be interested in returning (plus he'd have to relearn all the material that he hasn't played for 23 years).
I dont think Tate is QR nor will I think Scottyryche is QR,. QR to me IMO is done and gone and the name should be retired IMO. all my opinion. There are few facts left with this band.
No. The way you tout Tater as being the second coming, you do believe that Tater is QR. That is a fact. ::)
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am I to be bullied into thinking that was "good"
I'll be the first to say that the performance definitely seemed to be a bit phoned in - especially by Eddie and Michael. Michael only seemed to come alive during the solo, and Eddie only when the song ended, altho admittedly the camera wasn't on him for much of the time. But given that this is the first show they're playing in some time, you'd think they'd put more into the performance. At least Stone did, and from little I could see, so did Casey and to a lesser degree Todd. That said, I don't understand the issues you have with Todd as a front man. While I wouldn't want him to walk around all gloomy and "metal" like I remember seeing the "Metal God" do when he fronted his self-named band opening for QR and Maiden, I don't want some overly dramatic fake BS either, which I witnessed numerous times with Tater during the later years that I saw him front QR. At least Todd's the real deal. I'll take that over Tater's acting any day of the week.
It's odd how they couldn't get a different replacement for Parker. Let's find the guy that played with us during our worst years, Can't find anyone else ?? Wonder what conversations they have with Stone ? Hey, I really like the work you did with Tate and Slater on OM2, man that's got to be one of our worst albums, lol (Excluding the last one with Tate)
Actually, I think it makes perfect sense that they asked him to do the gig. While he's far from my favorite QR guitarist, at least he's already familiar with the material, unlike many others. Not only that, but they know the kind of guy that he is, since he was in the band for 6 years. Plus, he's filled in for Parker in the past. On top of that, let's remember that it was Tater and his wife that canned Stone - the other guys had nothing to do with it, just so they could get their future son-in-law the gig in the band. So when it became evident that Parker couldn't do the gig, it made perfect sense to see if Stone would do so - far more so than Kelly Gray (who's still Tater's buddy) and CDG who wouldn't be interested in returning (plus he'd have to relearn all the material that he hasn't played for 23 years).
I dont think Tate is QR nor will I think Scottyryche is QR,. QR to me IMO is done and gone and the name should be retired IMO. all my opinion. There are few facts left with this band.
No. The way you tout Tater as being the second coming, you do believe that Tater is QR. That is a fact. ::)
Hi SS,
Youre right on some issues for sure.. I cant stand Todd as a frontman, its just so bad to watch , cringy IMO, I hear ya that hes not over acting like Tate may but he simply has no stage craft at all, His voice is not great so to me there is nothing live to enjoy ,,,again as always my opinion. as far as Tate , with the band name QR being as diluted as pool water and Tates stage craft and voice being to me again my opinion the most hallmark sound of what I will call the Old Real QR back when it existed long ago Tate is really all that is left, he wins by default in many ways most modest casual non caring fans really only know him and his voice as QR again my opinion.
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So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.
https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q
You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". :lol
I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.
That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. :rollin
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So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.
https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q
You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". :lol
I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.
That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. :rollin
Its a fun discussion as we all seem to have passion on QR and all the drama and camps involved.
-
So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.
https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q
You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". :lol
I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.
That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. :rollin
Ah, yes... The tired stage banter. The overdramatization. The lip synching. The inability to stay in tune. Talk about cringe. SO glad those days are over.
-
So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.
https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q
You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". :lol
I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.
That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. :rollin
Ah, yes... The tired stage banter. The overdramatization. The lip synching. The inability to stay in tune. Talk about cringe. SO glad those days are over.
I miss it ;)
-
So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.
https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q
You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". :lol
I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.
That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. :rollin
actually isnt that last show or so and or the one they had the big fight at? to me that show is not typical and credit to all of them for pulling it together to do that performance under duress. oddly I liked Scotts drumming there
-
So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.
https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q
You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". :lol
I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.
That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. :rollin
Ah, yes... The tired stage banter. The overdramatization. The lip synching. The inability to stay in tune. Talk about cringe. SO glad those days are over.
I always thought the argument was that "rock music" was dead. I'd never heard anyone say "live music" was dead. Interesting.
There's a full show of that Rocklahoma performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI). I did an A/B with both "Empire" (16:10 for Tate, 42:55 for Todd) and "Walk In The Shadows" (0:00 Tate, 18:55 for Todd) from this 2012 Tater show and the 2019 Bloodstock performance of Toddryche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA). I'm sorry but you can't even compare the vocals of Tate then and Todd now. Todd can hit the notes that Tate hasn't been able to hit since probably the early 2000's.
I totally agree that all of this nonsense going on amongst band members is annoying. It's starting to feel like we're watching LA Guns all over again. I'm hoping that this doesn't end up being the straw that breaks QR's back.
-
So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.
https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q
You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". :lol
I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.
That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. :rollin
Ah, yes... The tired stage banter. The overdramatization. The lip synching. The inability to stay in tune. Talk about cringe. SO glad those days are over.
I always thought the argument was that "rock music" was dead. I'd never heard anyone say "live music" was dead. Interesting.
There's a full show of that Rocklahoma performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI). I did an A/B with both "Empire" (16:10 for Tate, 42:55 for Todd) and "Walk In The Shadows" (0:00 Tate, 18:55 for Todd) from this 2012 Tater show and the 2019 Bloodstock performance of Toddryche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA). I'm sorry but you can't even compare the vocals of Tate then and Todd now. Todd can hit the notes that Tate hasn't been able to hit since probably the early 2000's.
I totally agree that all of this nonsense going on amongst band members is annoying. It's starting to feel like we're watching LA Guns all over again. I'm hoping that this doesn't end up being the straw that breaks QR's back.
This isn't necessarily to defend Tate (or contradict you), but I think, to a lot of people (especially Tate fans), there's more to singing than 'hitting notes.'
While I personally like what the band is doing musically with Todd, I have not bought anything since the self-titled bc Todd's voice just doesn't do anything for me.
Tate, on the other hand, with Sweet Oblivion is pretty much everything I 'wish' QR was doing right now. Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.
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This isn't necessarily to defend Tate (or contradict you), but I think, to a lot of people (especially Tate fans), there's more to singing than 'hitting notes.'
While I personally like what the band is doing musically with Todd, I have not bought anything since the self-titled bc Todd's voice just doesn't do anything for me.
Tate, on the other hand, with Sweet Oblivion is pretty much everything I 'wish' QR was doing right now. Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.
Amen to this. In a recent conversation I had, I was told that a particular singer was overrated because this person doesn't have great range, and I was nicely like, "Okay, and?" Leaving aside that the word "overrated" can be infuriating (who makes these ratings anyway? :lol), there is a lot more to being a great singer than having great range or being able to hit every note. Sure, having those things can give you a major advantage, but there are still many subtleties to singing that have little do with either that can go a long way in determining if someone is a good singer or not (to me).
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Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.
So, does that mean he's been phoning it in for the past 15 years or so? He certainly did in his last years with QR. I know there are people who like Tribe. But, personally, I was completely done with them after Q2K up until Todd joined. I couldn't give one shit about any of those last 4 studio albums (5 including the covers album). And, when I'd heard the songs off Dedicated To Chaos, I didn't think I'd ever buy anything from the band again. I'll admit I don't know the words to a lot of the songs off of the Todd albums (or much new music I buy these days). But, I definitely enjoy it a lot more than the later Tater years.
There are also people who say range isn't everything. And, this is true. But, Geoff came off like an ass in his later years in the band. He became totally dismissive of heavy music, going so far as to say he hated metal music. I'm sorry but those first few albums are metal. I don't know whether it was his diminished range or his disdain for heavy music. But, I feel the setlists towards the end of his tenure suffered because of at least one of those attributes.
-
So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.
https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q
You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". :lol
I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.
That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. :rollin
Ah, yes... The tired stage banter. The overdramatization. The lip synching. The inability to stay in tune. Talk about cringe. SO glad those days are over.
I always thought the argument was that "rock music" was dead. I'd never heard anyone say "live music" was dead. Interesting.
There's a full show of that Rocklahoma performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI). I did an A/B with both "Empire" (16:10 for Tate, 42:55 for Todd) and "Walk In The Shadows" (0:00 Tate, 18:55 for Todd) from this 2012 Tater show and the 2019 Bloodstock performance of Toddryche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA). I'm sorry but you can't even compare the vocals of Tate then and Todd now. Todd can hit the notes that Tate hasn't been able to hit since probably the early 2000's.
I totally agree that all of this nonsense going on amongst band members is annoying. It's starting to feel like we're watching LA Guns all over again. I'm hoping that this doesn't end up being the straw that breaks QR's back.
This isn't necessarily to defend Tate (or contradict you), but I think, to a lot of people (especially Tate fans), there's more to singing than 'hitting notes.'
While I personally like what the band is doing musically with Todd, I have not bought anything since the self-titled bc Todd's voice just doesn't do anything for me.
Tate, on the other hand, with Sweet Oblivion is pretty much everything I 'wish' QR was doing right now. Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.
I agree Tates VOICE is pleasing Todds is not IMO, I care less about notes or down tuning a touch live after 20 years, thats it in a nutshell and Tate is a Star that is a legend, Todd will never be that IMO, Id pay to not see Toddsryche and keep my memories,,,, Ive never seen Tate be off live ever and from what I can see if Todd sang like Tate for 35 years Im not sure hed have any voice left as it appears his voice is degrading quick trying to be Tate live. Ive had enough shows of Wilton and Jackson to last me a lifetime and the rest of the band is no interest at all to me without Scott who is very talented
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Yeah, as much as I miss Geoff Tate's enthusiasm, showmanship, and ability to make everyone in the crowd smile at Queensryche shows, I'm still so glad the band replaced him with Todd. I usually run with my iPod on Shuffle mode, and tonight I suffered through "I Believe" from Dedicated to Chaos and the very next song happened to be "Portrait" from the stellar Verdict album. I would like the diehard Tate defenders to put on a pair of headphones and listen to these 2 songs back to back and tell me that Queensryche was better off with Tate making all of the decisions. It's such a rare thing for a veteran band to improve the quality of their music to this degree so suddenly (and there are a few songs on DTC that I actually like a lot).
However, I must say that Geoff has been doing a fantastic job these past few years. He is sounding much better than he did in his last years with Queensryche, and his setlists include songs that fans have wanted to see performed live for decades. Seeing Queensryche look bored on stage performing "Empire" for the millionth time to small casino crowds is so depressing. But seeing a smiling Geoff Tate sing "Chasing Blue Sky" makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
-
So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.
https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q
You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". :lol
I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.
That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. :rollin
Ah, yes... The tired stage banter. The overdramatization. The lip synching. The inability to stay in tune. Talk about cringe. SO glad those days are over.
I always thought the argument was that "rock music" was dead. I'd never heard anyone say "live music" was dead. Interesting.
There's a full show of that Rocklahoma performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI). I did an A/B with both "Empire" (16:10 for Tate, 42:55 for Todd) and "Walk In The Shadows" (0:00 Tate, 18:55 for Todd) from this 2012 Tater show and the 2019 Bloodstock performance of Toddryche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA). I'm sorry but you can't even compare the vocals of Tate then and Todd now. Todd can hit the notes that Tate hasn't been able to hit since probably the early 2000's.
I totally agree that all of this nonsense going on amongst band members is annoying. It's starting to feel like we're watching LA Guns all over again. I'm hoping that this doesn't end up being the straw that breaks QR's back.
This isn't necessarily to defend Tate (or contradict you), but I think, to a lot of people (especially Tate fans), there's more to singing than 'hitting notes.'
While I personally like what the band is doing musically with Todd, I have not bought anything since the self-titled bc Todd's voice just doesn't do anything for me.
Tate, on the other hand, with Sweet Oblivion is pretty much everything I 'wish' QR was doing right now. Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.
I agree Tates VOICE is pleasing Todds is not IMO, I care less about notes or down tuning a touch live after 20 years, thats it in a nutshell and Tate is a Star that is a legend, Todd will never be that IMO, Id pay to not see Toddsryche and keep my memories,,,, Ive never seen Tate be off live ever and from what I can see if Todd sang like Tate for 35 years Im not sure hed have any voice left as it appears his voice is degrading quick trying to be Tate live. Ive had enough shows of Wilton and Jackson to last me a lifetime and the rest of the band is no interest at all to me without Scott who is very talented
Wow...that's a hot take. I'll spare you the three-million youtube links I could post here, but let's call a spade a spade—no matter how much YOU love Tate, everyone has bad nights...everyone. Even Tater. Whether or not you've witnessed it is one thing (I can't argue your experiences), but the dude has objectively struggled and the visual evidence is everywhere.
That being said, I love Tate...love his voice, and just like JLB, I tend 'handicap' singers I love. An off note or three (hundred) is rarely going to ruin a concert for me.
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Yeah, as much as I miss Geoff Tate's enthusiasm, showmanship, and ability to make everyone in the crowd smile at Queensryche shows, I'm still so glad the band replaced him with Todd. I usually run with my iPod on Shuffle mode, and tonight I suffered through "I Believe" from Dedicated to Chaos and the very next song happened to be "Portrait" from the stellar Verdict album. I would like the diehard Tate defenders to put on a pair of headphones and listen to these 2 songs back to back and tell me that Queensryche was better off with Tate making all of the decisions. It's such a rare thing for a veteran band to improve the quality of their music to this degree so suddenly (and there are a few songs on DTC that I actually like a lot).
However, I must say that Geoff has been doing a fantastic job these past few years. He is sounding much better than he did in his last years with Queensryche, and his setlists include songs that fans have wanted to see performed live for decades. Seeing Queensryche look bored on stage performing "Empire" for the millionth time to small casino crowds is so depressing. But seeing a smiling Geoff Tate sing "Chasing Blue Sky" makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
I like this post
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I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.
His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.
He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.
-
So I went and looked up a live video for Empire as I wanted to see how they did the middle build-up Geoff Tate spoken word section. I found this embarrassing video.
https://youtu.be/B6WdaiTUB6Q
You can hear Tate coming in with the phoned in vocals, and his manner-isms. Then goes, on to say "They say live music is dead". :lol
I do not know why the current Queensryche doesn't do this build-up section and let LaTorre do some crowd interaction, and do basically what Tate does and pump the crowd. That is my only flaw with the current line-up of the band.
That video was what the band was before the break-up. And actually, makes Queensyrche and Geoff Tate come off better now. Hey, At least it's not that anymore. :rollin
Ah, yes... The tired stage banter. The overdramatization. The lip synching. The inability to stay in tune. Talk about cringe. SO glad those days are over.
I always thought the argument was that "rock music" was dead. I'd never heard anyone say "live music" was dead. Interesting.
There's a full show of that Rocklahoma performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHhK80GnwI). I did an A/B with both "Empire" (16:10 for Tate, 42:55 for Todd) and "Walk In The Shadows" (0:00 Tate, 18:55 for Todd) from this 2012 Tater show and the 2019 Bloodstock performance of Toddryche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRamDgcfkAA). I'm sorry but you can't even compare the vocals of Tate then and Todd now. Todd can hit the notes that Tate hasn't been able to hit since probably the early 2000's.
I totally agree that all of this nonsense going on amongst band members is annoying. It's starting to feel like we're watching LA Guns all over again. I'm hoping that this doesn't end up being the straw that breaks QR's back.
This isn't necessarily to defend Tate (or contradict you), but I think, to a lot of people (especially Tate fans), there's more to singing than 'hitting notes.'
While I personally like what the band is doing musically with Todd, I have not bought anything since the self-titled bc Todd's voice just doesn't do anything for me.
Tate, on the other hand, with Sweet Oblivion is pretty much everything I 'wish' QR was doing right now. Even without the range, when the man wants to, he can deliver one of the best vocals in metal/hard rock.
I agree Tates VOICE is pleasing Todds is not IMO, I care less about notes or down tuning a touch live after 20 years, thats it in a nutshell and Tate is a Star that is a legend, Todd will never be that IMO, Id pay to not see Toddsryche and keep my memories,,,, Ive never seen Tate be off live ever and from what I can see if Todd sang like Tate for 35 years Im not sure hed have any voice left as it appears his voice is degrading quick trying to be Tate live. Ive had enough shows of Wilton and Jackson to last me a lifetime and the rest of the band is no interest at all to me without Scott who is very talented
Wow...that's a hot take. I'll spare you the three-million youtube links I could post here, but let's call a spade a spade—no matter how much YOU love Tate, everyone has bad nights...everyone. Even Tater. Whether or not you've witnessed it is one thing (I can't argue your experiences), but the dude has objectively struggled and the visual evidence is everywhere.
That being said, I love Tate...love his voice, and just like JLB, I tend 'handicap' singers I love. An off note or three (hundred) is rarely going to ruin a concert for me.
Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on, If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them, Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable, its all fun to discuss
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I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.
His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.
He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.
When I saw Tate on the acoustic tour early January 2017, I think we were about 80-100 people. Didn't seem to bother him either.
It was quite surreal to be in such an intimate venue, considering I've listened to hundreds of shows from the prime days and had been a fan for a couple of years at that point. But the moment he actually stood there on stage, it was like it clicked: He actually exists! - It's not just some voice I've heard on recordings, or a person I've seen on 20-30 year old videos :corn
Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on, If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them, Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable, its all fun to discuss
Here's one from 1990, the opening date of the Empire tour: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fMwemo7eikML1SHwC7vdWb
Every singer has had an off night, even Tate.
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I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.
His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.
He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.
When I saw Tate on the acoustic tour early January 2017, I think we were about 80-100 people. Didn't seem to bother him either.
It was quite surreal to be in such an intimate venue, considering I've listened to hundreds of shows from the prime days and had been a fan for a couple of years at that point. But the moment he actually stood there on stage, it was like it clicked: He actually exists! - It's not just some voice I've heard on recordings, or a person I've seen on 20-30 year old videos :corn
Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on, If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them, Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable, its all fun to discuss
Here's one from 1990, the opening date of the Empire tour: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fMwemo7eikML1SHwC7vdWb
Every singer has had an off night, even Tate.
If thats his worst night then hes better than I even thought.. the sound quality is very bad overall on the recording ... Geoffs speaking voice seems off, sounds like his pushing through a flu or cold. I will say on OMC at the Moore his voice seemed off to me.. but if thats it over 35 years he amazing.. I remember seeing Halford after he left JP on the Maiden QR Halford tour and Rob was so bad I was shocked,
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The Empire video farther up the page is an apt example. I mean, you could see/hear his loss of range going back to the Q2K tour. And he had plenty of off nights when I saw them on the Tribe tour (and as documented on Live Evolution and Art of Live). But where he really started to sound truly bad on a consistent basis was probably the Mindcrime II through D2C era. I'm not talking about downtuning and singing lower. I'm not talking about going for the odd note here and there and missing it. I'm not talking about altering the vocal melody to make it easier. Most singers, especially in rock/metal, have to do that as they age. That's just a reality. What I am talking about is consistently being off key, sounding overly strained, visibly singing incorrectly, and either lip synching and/or tossing lines to the audience frequently throughout the show. Lots of singers have nights where that happens. But with Tate, it became a regular thing. And there are three things that really bothered me about it that I personally have a hard time getting past: (1) he was SO cavalier about it and just didn't care, (2) he refused to get coaching, do proper warmups, and do other things good singers do to help preserve/recover his voice, and (3) much of his vocal deterioration appears to have been a direct result of abusing his voice and body over a long period of time, and even after it was clear that he was losing it, he didn't care. It even crept into studio recordings (say what you will, but he sounded flat out awful on American Soldier, D2C, and FU). Those things bother me. And because of them, I find it hard to get past the bias I have when listening to him. I can't unhear the things he is doing wrong, and they jump right out at me and are amplified because of the things I know. Look, I still give him his due. I know how hard it is to sing some of QR's material, especially the earlier stuff. I know how hard it is do pull that off live, especially an entire set, night after night. And I know how hard it is to do a passable job of even a couple of those songs while sick. Tate toured for years and managed to pull off that material night after night, whether healthy, sick, exhausted, or what have you. I marvel at what he used to be able to do. But that also doesn't somehow erase how bad he was on a very regular basis in the latter years with QR. No matter who much one admires the guy, you can't with a straight face argue that he sang well during that period. He didn't.
Now all that said, in fairness, he seems to have made enough changes since being kicked out of the band that he does much better vocally. It took him awhile. And I'm not sure what he started doing differently, other than perhaps not performing as frequently. But he sounds better. He's still a shadow of what he was. But he sounds more like a rock singer who abused his voice for years, but still has a lot of talent, and is giving his all to give the best he has to give vs. sounding like a rock singer who abused his voice for years, lost his gift, and doesn't really care.
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I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.
His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.
He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.
When I saw Tate on the acoustic tour early January 2017, I think we were about 80-100 people. Didn't seem to bother him either.
It was quite surreal to be in such an intimate venue, considering I've listened to hundreds of shows from the prime days and had been a fan for a couple of years at that point. But the moment he actually stood there on stage, it was like it clicked: He actually exists! - It's not just some voice I've heard on recordings, or a person I've seen on 20-30 year old videos :corn
Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on, If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them, Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable, its all fun to discuss
Here's one from 1990, the opening date of the Empire tour: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fMwemo7eikML1SHwC7vdWb
Every singer has had an off night, even Tate.
Setz... was that the first time you saw Geoff? in 2017?
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The Empire video farther up the page is an apt example. I mean, you could see/hear his loss of range going back to the Q2K tour. And he had plenty of off nights when I saw them on the Tribe tour (and as documented on Live Evolution and Art of Live). But where he really started to sound truly bad on a consistent basis was probably the Mindcrime II through D2C era. I'm not talking about downtuning and singing lower. I'm not talking about going for the odd note here and there and missing it. I'm not talking about altering the vocal melody to make it easier. Most singers, especially in rock/metal, have to do that as they age. That's just a reality. What I am talking about is consistently being off key, sounding overly strained, visibly singing incorrectly, and either lip synching and/or tossing lines to the audience frequently throughout the show. Lots of singers have nights where that happens. But with Tate, it became a regular thing. And there are three things that really bothered me about it that I personally have a hard time getting past: (1) he was SO cavalier about it and just didn't care, (2) he refused to get coaching, do proper warmups, and do other things good singers do to help preserve/recover his voice, and (3) much of his vocal deterioration appears to have been a direct result of abusing his voice and body over a long period of time, and even after it was clear that he was losing it, he didn't care. It even crept into studio recordings (say what you will, but he sounded flat out awful on American Soldier, D2C, and FU). Those things bother me. And because of them, I find it hard to get past the bias I have when listening to him. I can't unhear the things he is doing wrong, and they jump right out at me and are amplified because of the things I know. Look, I still give him his due. I know how hard it is to sing some of QR's material, especially the earlier stuff. I know how hard it is do pull that off live, especially an entire set, night after night. And I know how hard it is to do a passable job of even a couple of those songs while sick. Tate toured for years and managed to pull off that material night after night, whether healthy, sick, exhausted, or what have you. I marvel at what he used to be able to do. But that also doesn't somehow erase how bad he was on a very regular basis in the latter years with QR. No matter who much one admires the guy, you can't with a straight face argue that he sang well during that period. He didn't.
Now all that said, in fairness, he seems to have made enough changes since being kicked out of the band that he does much better vocally. It took him awhile. And I'm not sure what he started doing differently, other than perhaps not performing as frequently. But he sounds better. He's still a shadow of what he was. But he sounds more like a rock singer who abused his voice for years, but still has a lot of talent, and is giving his all to give the best he has to give vs. sounding like a rock singer who abused his voice for years, lost his gift, and doesn't really care.
good post and read Boss. I guess for me Geoff owes me nothing after 97. if anything he had to put too much work and energy into holding the band together and running the LLC etcpost Chris, anything after that was all gravy.. I could say the same for the other members of the band besides Chris, they had not improved at all, so I forgive Geoff as nobody was pushing him to be better, he was the draw. Im always amazed besides Chris and Scott how mediocre the band really is. its Goeffs voice that carried them to any notoriety. Live I never had any issue with Tate ever, and the band was good enough but not excellent. at least Tate was fun to watch, its not like Tate had a band like DT or Sym X etc that were so outstanding to lift and push him.
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I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.
His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.
He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.
When I saw Tate on the acoustic tour early January 2017, I think we were about 80-100 people. Didn't seem to bother him either.
It was quite surreal to be in such an intimate venue, considering I've listened to hundreds of shows from the prime days and had been a fan for a couple of years at that point. But the moment he actually stood there on stage, it was like it clicked: He actually exists! - It's not just some voice I've heard on recordings, or a person I've seen on 20-30 year old videos :corn
Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on, If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them, Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable, its all fun to discuss
Here's one from 1990, the opening date of the Empire tour: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fMwemo7eikML1SHwC7vdWb
Every singer has had an off night, even Tate.
Setz... was that the first time you saw Geoff? in 2017?
It was. Maybe the last, because I doubt Geoff will return here. I'd go see him with Avantasia if they came around, but they don't appear to schedule in Denmark.
I first saw Queensr˙che with Todd in November 2019. I would have liked to have seen them back in 2016, but I didn't make it. Before that, the last time Queensr˙che played in Denmark was in 1995, about 6 months before I was born :angel:
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I've not seen Toddryche but have seen Tate live in a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, and will be seeing him again in a few months. He had a really bad period but he was decent when I saw him, both times. Sure, he's not Tate of the 80s/early 90s, but he's upped his game from those awful videos from a few years ago where he sounded like a duck quacking on Silent Lucidity. I really thought hard about going because I didn't want to ruin my memories of his glorious voice, but I enjoyed both shows well enough.
His Scottish no-name guitarist got on my nerves though, playing the rock star, as though anyone was there to see him. i guess it adds something to the show for some as the rest of the band were pretty static, but excellent.
He played a local pub that holds 2-300 people and he didn't seem pissed at that.
When I saw Tate on the acoustic tour early January 2017, I think we were about 80-100 people. Didn't seem to bother him either.
It was quite surreal to be in such an intimate venue, considering I've listened to hundreds of shows from the prime days and had been a fan for a couple of years at that point. But the moment he actually stood there on stage, it was like it clicked: He actually exists! - It's not just some voice I've heard on recordings, or a person I've seen on 20-30 year old videos :corn
Ive not seen him ever have an off night, Ive seen them about 30 times from 83 on, If you want to show me these youtubes of Tate being off Id be glad to view them, Ive seen Todd be way off and his style of ramping up to hit the note I find uncomfortable, its all fun to discuss
Here's one from 1990, the opening date of the Empire tour: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fMwemo7eikML1SHwC7vdWb
Every singer has had an off night, even Tate.
Setz... was that the first time you saw Geoff? in 2017?
It was. Maybe the last, because I doubt Geoff will return here. I'd go see him with Avantasia if they came around, but they don't appear to schedule in Denmark.
I first saw Queensr˙che with Todd in November 2019. I would have liked to have seen them back in 2016, but I didn't make it. Before that, the last time Queensr˙che played in Denmark was in 1995, about 6 months before I was born :angel:
ah makes sense now that you are from Denmark...glad you got to see Geoff, its nice to see stars live, to see them, Its weird back in the old days ( late 70s 80s) there was little recording of shows and it was about seeing the band , now its about listening back to recordings of the shows and being critical of mistakes etc. i guess thats why I like to see stars live and the music long as its B+ to me it was great and it was about having fun, partying ( who knows many times we were buzzed lol or more) and it was about the memory and experience and not as much emphasis on hitting notes etc. all the best to you Setzer ..ENJOY
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A few things:
Re: Dublin 10/29/90 -- this was the first show on the Building Empires tour. Setzer is right, anyone can have an off night. I listened to that whole clip of Resistance, and a little bit of Walk in the Shadows and it sounds like the whole band is off a bit at the start, although it could be the quality of the recording. It IS the first time they are playing "Resistance" live, and while rehearsed, flubs can happen. Tate doesn't sound bad, at least to my ears. Not sure what the complaint would be except for a couple of little screeches at the start. And that song, if you're a singer, it's in your head voice and high the entire time. It's actually not an easy song to sing, right off the bat. I saw them do it in 2009, and Tate was having trouble getting high enough to sing it. After the solo he was better, but it's still difficult.
Here was my recording of Tate in 2009 (done on an old digital camera) - https://youtu.be/qgC0IYqMemU
Here is La Torre doing it in 2020 (on my phone) - https://youtu.be/NT3VypPJcJA
>>>>You be the judge. Again, it's totally subjective. Both are not the greatest vocal performances. I prefer Tate when comparing those two videos, personally. And it's not even close. Again, it is not an easy song to sing. It's high the entire time. No breaks. I give La Torre credit for giving it a whirl. I doubt Tate can even get close to his 2009 performance of it today. That is a bitch of a tune. Which is why it was pretty incredible to see QR play it pretty damn well (particularly Tate) every show from October 29, 1990 to January 1992. Tate was just incredible back then.
re: Band's Idaho 2021 performance and "mailing it in." - my response to that is...its a one-off gig and the first time they played live in a year. They probably didn't even rehearse as a band and they are missing their second guitar player. I mean, when I watched the video, I knew what I was going to get before I even clicked on it.
re: QR being a "job." Well, it IS a job. And some of them have jobs outside of QR. Parker, for instance, at least in the last year owned a guitar store in the Seattle area. that may be why he was unavailable. Or it could be something personal. I know some of the others have regular other jobs too. It's different than it used to be. If it starts to seem that way to folks when they go see them and they don't like the vibe, they can choose NOT to go to future shows.
I saw them in 2020 on The Verdict tour for personal reasons. Once it was over, I had made up my mind that I don't need to see them live ever again (I may end up seeing them anyway, but it would be because of other reasons). Nor do I feel the need to see Tate (plugged in) ever again (I'd make an exception if he came around doing all-acoustic, but I'll pass on this current Empire/Rage tour even though there is a local date). Queensryche is a band, but at least in this biographer's opinion (seems weird to say that, but I'm going with it, since a friend called me that the other day - lol), it is more about earning money and maximizing earnings these days. And that's my personal opinion. Creating the albums satisfies the artistic urge, but playing live is all about making bread, not expanding the band's fan base and reach, like it was in the 80s and early 90s when they were young. Think about how old their two remaining original members are. Retirement has to be looming, no?
re: EPICVIEW -- dude, I'm not a mod here to tell you what to do or not to do, just a historian of QR and one of the biggest fans of their original lineup. Many agree that they'd prefer Tate to sing with QR as opposed to Todd. I'm one of them. I feel like Tate has a much richer tone, and while Todd hits higher notes and can really belt out that EP-Rage stuff in a classic power metal fashion, I feel like he struggles with the Mindcrime-PL material because his voice isn't as rich and full as Tate's was/is. That's all subjective and my personal opinion, obviously.
But almost every single one of your posts looks to start that kind of back and forth argument. (Obviously, that was a bit of a dramatic statement, but you know what I mean.) If you want people to take your commentary more seriously, you may want to contribute in a less biased and more helpful way.
re: Stone filling in for Parker -- I love Stone. not his tone, but the dude. He is one of the nicest guys. I met him at various meet and greets over the years. The last time my wife and I met him though, it was his last show before being canned by the Tates. The Pain in the Grass Festival in August 2008 (or was it July). He was in the airport on the way home to Wisconsin, and we said hello and chatted for a few minutes. Slater loved Stoney. Said Stone worked his ass off for the band. So while I'm not really a big fan of his tone, any time I see Stoney up there jammin' on some Ryche, I smile. Good dude.
Overall, at this point in Queensryche's history, people who are still fans should just be thankful. It's not easy to keep afloat. And after 40 years, they keep on keeping on. There's something to be said for that, even if you're not as happy with some of what they do, or the people in the group.
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A few things...
To save space, I didn't "quote" your whole post. But, I have to say that it was very articulate and fair on all points. Thanks for sharing. Can't wait for your book.
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You know, I find a lot of discussion on Tate vs Torre very fascinating as someone who doesn't have much of a history with the band. From my perspective, whether or not the Torre era is considered legit Queensryche or not... it's a damned fine USPM style band with a steely edge to them. On many days, I may even consider an album like The Verdict to be superior to some of the classics and in the first few years of the era, I would've preferred the 2013 self titled and Condition Human to them due to it simply being more to my taste, being closer to a band like Sanctuary. Whether they carry as important a legacy or can sell as many tickets as they could with Tate is irrelevant to me, what's important is that write music that I want to listen to and since 2013, they've been quite successful at that. I wouldn't be able to say the same for 1997-2011 era Queensryche and my interest in Geoff's OM project is too thin for me to give those albums a listen. Seeing the disparity in ratings between Torre era Queensryche and that, as well as Frequency Unknown being the ill fated disaster that it was, I don't think I'm regretting my reluctance.
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Enigma,
Great post. I think the 2013 self titled, Condition Human and The Verdict are slso superior to anything put out from the band post-original lineup. It's great stuff. A lot of people bag on 1997's HITNF, but I have found that recordto be, over time, something that grows on you and you discover nuances that even now, almost 25 years later, that you can appreciate.
I dont think the current material gets enough attention from the band in a live setting. They feel a need to play the hits, which I understand. But given my own personal preference, I think QR would be better served playing songs from the La Torre era in abundance, with just a few classic tracks. I'd enjoy that a whole lot more.
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For sure. I think the material is strong enough to carry them forward, wheras relying on nostalgia I think can only hold them back in the long run (if they believe they have a long run left, I guess). The positive reception to it should really be a signal for them to not be afraid of prioritising the last 3 albums and emphasising their status as a modern, up-to-date band the way Fates Warning and Kamelot are doing in spite of their age, for instance. I can imagine that if they do that, the debate about them being the real QR kinda matters a lot less, because then they wouldn't be defining themselves primarily by songs and albums made over 30 years ago.
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A lot of people bag on 1997's HITNF, but I have found that recordto be, over time, something that grows on you and you discover nuances that even now, almost 25 years later, that you can appreciate.
I think my problem with it originally was that is followed my favorite Queensryche album and Chris was gone, but I've kind of grown to enjoy it over recent years.
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A lot of people bag on 1997's HITNF, but I have found that recordto be, over time, something that grows on you and you discover nuances that even now, almost 25 years later, that you can appreciate.
I think my problem with it originally was that is followed my favorite Queensryche album and Chris was gone, but I've kind of grown to enjoy it over recent years.
Chris didn't leave until Q2Krap
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A lot of people bag on 1997's HITNF, but I have found that recordto be, over time, something that grows on you and you discover nuances that even now, almost 25 years later, that you can appreciate.
I think my problem with it originally was that is followed my favorite Queensryche album and Chris was gone, but I've kind of grown to enjoy it over recent years.
Chris didn't leave until Q2Krap
Stand corrected.
Proves how much I've really paid attention to Queensryche since that time (Late '90s disillusionment)
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Additionally....due to the fact that HITNF had been reportedly a 80% Chris project, there was some feelings that QR might be revitalized moving forward.
Oh how wrong we were.
Still, it is rather odd that arguably their worst album still gave us one top 10 all time QR song in The Right Side of My Mind.
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Still, it is rather odd that arguably their worst album still gave us one top 10 all time QR song in The Right Side of My Mind.
More like the wrong side of your mind.
I can't believe you've never heard their 80's output.
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Still, it is rather odd that arguably their worst album still gave us one top 10 all time QR song in The Right Side of My Mind.
More like the wrong side of your mind.
I can't believe you've never heard their 80's output.
Um....dude. I'm from Seattle. I was listening to KZOK when they were promoting the EP. Before they were signed.
Wait...was this supposed to be at someone else?
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Wait...was this supposed to be at someone else?
It was aimed at whoever said this:
top 10 all time QR song in The Right Side of My Mind.
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Oh I see. :rollin :rollin :rollin
I stand by what I said. Q2K is a terrible album, but that song is incredible. In fact, I can't think of another example by any artist ever where there there is one song that is that good, on an album that is otherwise that bad.
Ok....maybe "top 10" is a stretch, but it's close.
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Oh I see. :rollin :rollin :rollin
I stand by what I said. Q2K is a terrible album, but that song is incredible. In fact, I can't think of another example by any artist ever where there there is one song that is that good, on an album that is otherwise that bad.
Ok....maybe "top 10" is a stretch, but it's close.
How many tracks did they release between 1983-1994? It would be somewhere after that number.
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Have you guys even heard that song? Or did you just tune out the entire album because most of it was crap?
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Oh I see. :rollin :rollin :rollin
I stand by what I said. Q2K is a terrible album, but that song is incredible. In fact, I can't think of another example by any artist ever where there there is one song that is that good, on an album that is otherwise that bad.
Ok....maybe "top 10" is a stretch, but it's close.
How many tracks did they release between 1983-1994? It would be somewhere after that number.
I'm sure it's better than Disconnected.
Have you guys even heard that song? Or did you just tune out the entire album because most of it was crap?
I've heard it and it's a good song. Very good actually, though it's been a long time since I've heard it.
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I agree that The Right Side of My Mind is a really good song, easily their best since Promised Land, which of course isn't saying a lot...:lol
I won't say it's top 10 material, but it's very worthy.
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Oh I see. :rollin :rollin :rollin
I stand by what I said. Q2K is a terrible album, but that song is incredible. In fact, I can't think of another example by any artist ever where there there is one song that is that good, on an album that is otherwise that bad.
Ok....maybe "top 10" is a stretch, but it's close.
How many tracks did they release between 1983-1994? It would be somewhere after that number.
I'm sure it's better than Disconnected.
You can't hate on Disconnected! I love the bass and guitar work in that song.
I think we can all agree that the music video for The Right Side of My Mind is atrocious. No wonder it's a forgotten relic.
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There was a music video for that? I had no idea.
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There was a music video for that? I had no idea.
That's how bad it was! I only found out about it myself last year.
https://youtu.be/P26EhN_yNiU?t=553
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most things are better than Disconnected. My first Queensryche wtf moment.
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most things are better than Disconnected. My first Queensryche wtf moment.
I agree Its still one of my least fav tunes by them
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I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. I feel like QR was founded on the idea of being a hard rock band with occasional forays into Pink Floyd psychedelica. Disconnected is a perfect example of that, and it doesn’t even feel like QR to me unless we have those really strange, off-kilter moments.
If I have any issues with the TLT era, it’s that it’s not weird enough. Eye9 comes close, but I want more things with a Disconnected approach.
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There was a music video for that? I had no idea.
That's how bad it was! I only found out about it myself last year.
https://youtu.be/P26EhN_yNiU?t=553
Was that video a submission by a first year student at the Art Institute? Damn.
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Additionally....due to the fact that HITNF had been reportedly a 80% Chris project, there was some feelings that QR might be revitalized moving forward.
Oh how wrong we were.
Yes, but...they were definitely feeling their way forward in a different direction, with a brand new writing partner, and their primary writer being gone. Samsara has said this numerous times on his prior site, and I tend to agree: It would have been really interesting to hear where they went next had things not blown up with Kelly, and had he stayed in the band. With an entire album and tour under their belt, they would have gelled more as a writing/performing team, and it is entirely plausible (and likely, IMO) that their next album would have felt a lot more cohesive and felt more "Queensryche" than Q2K.
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Yes, but...they were definitely feeling their way forward in a different direction, with a brand new writing partner, and their primary writer being gone. Samsara has said this numerous times on his prior site, and I tend to agree: It would have been really interesting to hear where they went next had things not blown up with Kelly, and had he stayed in the band. With an entire album and tour under their belt, they would have gelled more as a writing/performing team, and it is entirely plausible (and likely, IMO) that their next album would have felt a lot more cohesive and felt more "Queensryche" than Q2K.
There are many things at play during the HITNF/Q2k years. Regarding HITNF, no one aside from Chris wanted to make a record, yet the label was pushing them (Chris) to do so. If you read between the lines of what was said at the time (that they wanted to try a more spontaneous, less rehearsed direction), in retrospect, you can see that. Chris gets credited with the direction of HITNF, and I agree with that. But if you take a close look at Empire, Promised Land, and HITNF, you'll see that musically, it was Chris pretty much musically dictating the direction. The band became less metal after Mindcrime, as Chris explored melody and other sides of rock, and Tate preferred not to be pigeonholed as a "metal" singer. Chris adapted to Tate's needs, his own needs, and helped bring the band together on the various projects. I've said it repeatedly - like it or not, Queensryche had a sonic evolutionary path that I personally believe Chris was very much aware of, and even when he returned from Tribe, he tried to expand on it.
Anyway, so Chris gets everyone on board with HITNF and the sparser direction, writes a record that honestly fits perfectly with the times, its first single is pretty darn big, it's second single starts to take off...then the label folds. There goes all the push at radio, all the tour support, everything. The band finances their own tour, QPrime dumps them, and QR is at ground zero. Talk about repeated haymakers. To add insult to injury, some fans turned on QR for HITNF because they didn't like the direction, which Chris steered, in my opinion, based on what he saw with Soundgarden (see here - https://anybodylistening.net/downontherycheside.html) and Alice in Chains. Queensryche sort of...ran its course to an extent, with the band's personal lives very different and all the interpersonal stuff surrounding them all.
So in comes Kelly Gray. Tate's buddy. Former Myth guitarist. Will never tell Tate "no." Gray and Wilton connect a bit, although both are very different. They come up with Right Side of My Mind. Vibes start happening. But then Gray steps into DeGarmo's shoes. He writes the best record he can at the time (he thought it was a "good" album with a healing element on it). It doesn't sound like Queensyrche's sonic evolutionary path (duh), and the style differs completely (double duh, given that your main writer and arranger is now a guy who is light years different as a player, very influenced by different guys, and is a different writer than DeGarmo).
Again, in retrospect, looking back 22 years, what did we really expect? I was pretty naive at the time about everything. All I knew was, my favorite band did a new record and was still playing and I was into it. Now...I see a reinvention. I see a band getting comfortable just being who they are on Q2k. To me, that record may not have been a sales success, but it was certainly a success in helping four guys move forward. And that's in large part in thanks to Kelly. It's not really "Queensryche" to me NOW, but it was then. And there were some gems on that record. Right Side of My Mind (Gray, Tate, Wilton) and Liquid Sky (Gray, Rockenfield, Tate) were very much "fan favorites" and a bunch of folks dug the ballad "When the Rain Comes" which musically was written by Wilton (myself included). The material was strong enough to succeed. But what happened again? Atlantic didn't support them (they should have known that), the industry changed, and pretty much what happened with HITNF happened with Q2k.
Had the fans embraced Kelly, and Kelly been able to control himself on the road (read the liner notes from Tate on the Q2k expanded edition from 2006), Kelly would have likely continued on. Seeing him get to know the guys, what works and what doesn't, would have led to a better record overall. Would people have "liked" it? Would it sound more "Queensryche" (how is that defined -- the DeGarmo era, the late 80s/early 90s?) You never know. But take the name "Queensryche" off the record, and I know I personally really like about 2/3 of Q2k. My guess is, I would have at least LIKED a follow-up with Kelly Gray.
When DeGarmo came back for Tribe, the band had floundered, Chris came in after hearing about Tate's lyrical theme, had some ideas the band really liked, and really liked some of his suggested additions to other songs they had already written, etc.) Those songs, Desert Dance, Open, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine, The Art of Life (and Justified) -- do you all like them? Because that's honestly "Queensryche" again, with all five guys a part of it in some way, shape or form. That's the sonic evolution of DeGarmo-Tate continuing. Chris left in the middle of the sessions, because of various reasons, which aren't important for this post. But that handful of songs is generally that continued evolution of "Queensryche"
I think the problem is, people consider "Queensryche" or the "Queensryche sound" to be defined by albums and time. Specifically, I think people define the band by the EP-Empire. For me, while looking back at it all, I think what is "Queensryche" is more defined by the musical relationship of DeGarmo, Tate, and Wilton. How that changed over the years. The funny thing is, if you consider "Eyes of a Stranger" to be a definitive QR song, and I think most people do, that's a DeGarmo/Tate track. The evolution and defining of what Queensryche was, songwise, is in my opinion, that relationship, and where they took their partnership as writers. Not the albums that defined them, but their path as writers (along with Wilton to a degree, although he was less involved over time, for whatever reason).
Coming back to Q2k, it's a solid hard rock record that had a lot of potential to be more successful than it was. And if the situation was different, I think a second record with him would have continued the same sonic path as Q2k, but with some other keyboard elements added. Whether people would have "liked" that, is anyone's guess.
B
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Im more excited for Scottyche aka QR3 : )
as someone who was there at the beginning I sum a lot of it up as very bad luck and timing , Chris smartly saving his marriage and family and not wanting to be the leader with all the responsibility ( along with Tate ) and grunge coming in to wipe out most of the hair metal bands ironically from the Seattle area . also, I think the way the band for a few years "kept the door open" for Chris in hindsight now was a mistake and they should have brought in another partner and not an employee , we see that history repeating itself in Toddsryche as now its only 2 partners and 3 employees and that isnt healthy IMO
Its all gravy folks if ya like it enjoy it
I enjoyed the Q2K album and it was a reason to tour and they did and the shows to me were different as we missed the "skinny guy with the hat" but as has been discussed many were unhappy with Chris's dabbling in folk and grungy sounds on HITNF, but I liked that album a whole lot and at times I feel a connection between it and tribe which I love.
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Scottryche sounds like an impending lawsuit to me. The website looks distinctly unofficial, nobody other than Scott himself has made any comments on it and he's chosen for some reason to throw on a Toxic Remedy demo on there seemingly without the rest of the band's permission. The band pic is also literally a cropped version of the one on the official website. If Wilton and Jackson were in some way complicit with this QR3 thing, then I can't in good conscience support them, because that would be a vile stab in the back to the people who've arguably kept the band's relevance from falling even further (perhaps Todd more). Plus, I don't think it's the way grown adults should be handling things. Regardless of what you might think, someone like Torre is not a hired gun. His songwriting credits are all over the last three albums and considering how well received they've been, a move to distance themselves from him would be highly ill advised. Him and Parker are pretty much symbols of the band's redemption to a lot of people, myself included.
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Im more excited for Scottyche aka QR3 : )
Why on earth would you be looking forward to Scottryche? Do you have any faith that there'd be good music coming? He's a great drummer and his style was an important factor in me liking Queensryche back in the day, but I'm not sure what musical capital he has. What, are we going to be treated to a mini drum solo in the middle of another old track in concert?
as someone who was there at the beginning I sum a lot of it up as very bad luck and timing
I was also there from the beginning, and all this band had was good luck and timing. They got an EP, an EP!, released by a major label. It wasn't just available in Seattle. I bought it here in Massachusetts.
The press was behind them. I goit a detention in high school because I was showing a friend of mine in class their 5 KKKKK review in Kerrang.
They got on all of the best tours in both Europe and the US right through the 80's. They had a GREAT 12 or so year run. They survived the 80's and were successful right into the heart of the 90's.
At any point from 1983 to 1990, a young TAC would tell anyone that Queensryche is one of the best bands out there.
But at the end of the day, this band fucking imploded. That's OK. It has happened to many bands and will continue to happen. But they had their run and it was glorious.
Hopefully, people can learn to enjoy the different factions of music coming from the original members and not pick sides. I don't consider Toddryche actual Queensryche albums. But I do consider them excellent albums.
So you are right when you said this...
Its all gravy folks if ya like it enjoy it
So true.
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Im more excited for Scottyche aka QR3 : )
Why on earth would you be looking forward to Scottryche? Do you have any faith that there'd be good music coming? He's a great drummer and his style was an important factor in me liking Queensryche back in the day, but I'm not sure what musical capital he has. What, are we going to be treated to a mini drum solo in the middle of another old track in concert?
as someone who was there at the beginning I sum a lot of it up as very bad luck and timing
I was also there from the beginning, and all this band had was good luck and timing. They got an EP, an EP!, released by a major label. It wasn't just available in Seattle. I bought it here in Massachusetts.
The press was behind them. I goit a detention in high school because I was showing a friend of mine in class their 5 KKKKK review in Kerrang.
They got on all of the best tours in both Europe and the US right through the 80's. They had a GREAT 12 or so year run. They survived the 80's and were successful right into the heart of the 90's.
At any point from 1983 to 1990, a young TAC would tell anyone that Queensryche is one of the best bands out there.
But at the end of the day, this band fucking imploded. That's OK. It has happened to many bands and will continue to happen. But they had their run and it was glorious.
Hopefully, people can learn to enjoy the different factions of music coming from the original members and not pick sides. I don't consider Toddryche actual Queensryche albums. But I do consider them excellent albums.
So you are right when you said this...
Its all gravy folks if ya like it enjoy it
So true.
Hey my bro Tac,
Im excited for Scottyryche for the DRAMA!!!!! and I always like that something 'odd and unusual" and Scott has odd tastes. Its the same reason i have zero interest in Toddsyrche , there is NOTHING NEW in Toddsryche, its just blah formula paint by numbers shlock metal with no meaning to me, I care less about his vocals and drumming , its just "me too" metal and that was never what I wanted from the talented Original QR
I say that they had bad luck because of EMI exploding and their catalog being in limbo, the timing of grunge taking over when the band was in flux and the timing of Chris leaving to save his marriage and lot of other reasons I cant get too into but suffice to say the band had many internal family type issues that plagued them at the worst of times.. etc. to me they just never got to the JP Maiden level for many reasons, mostly that they wouldnt stay in the metal "box". it was bad luck Tate was left without a partner to write with, say Jackson left instead of Chris, that would have been "good luck" but Chris leaving to become a pilot and owner of a flying Co and change his whole life to save his marriage was "bad luck" ( chris as he wrote didnt want repeat what his dad did to him) that doesnt happen very often that one of the 2 primary writers leaves the industry at Chris's age to not return for many reasons, Chris really couldnt return if he even wanted to , Ive always wondered why they "left the door open" for Chris as there was no way he could come back. it was "bad luck" to do that rather than bring in a real replacement for Chris and make him a partner, they did it because they fans wanted to dream Chris would return, but a blind person knew he couldnt. I could go on but thats the crux of it. all of this is MY OPINION : ) as always
Have a great day bro!!
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Gotcha Epic. Thanks for explaining.
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Gotcha Epic. Thanks for explaining.
You are the best brother TAC
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I don't consider Toddryche actual Queensryche albums. But I do consider them excellent albums.
Yeah honestly, I get that. Even as someone who's discovered the band much more recently, there's a kind of different vibe around the last 3 albums. Having said that, the same could arguably be said of the 1999-2010 era of the band, compared to the earlier material.
Hey my bro Tac,
Im excited for Scottyryche for the DRAMA!!!!! and I always like that something 'odd and unusual" and Scott has odd tastes. Its the same reason i have zero interest in Toddsyrche , there is NOTHING NEW in Toddsryche, its just blah formula paint by numbers shlock metal with no meaning to me, I care less about his vocals and drumming , its just "me too" metal and that was never what I wanted from the talented Original QR
I mean... Queensryche weren't even really at the cutting edge with Operation Mindcrime or Empire either, it can be argued. Iron Maiden beat them to the punch in regards to 80s metal concept albums and Empire was mostly slick glam metal with some Floydian moments. I'd also hardly call the Todd era albums paint-by-numbers, I'd like to see your average metal band do a powerful ballad like Dark Reverie or something as adventurous, yet compact as Launder the Conscience or Bent. It's heavier, but I'd argue no less creative. Eye9, Inside Out and Propaganda Fashion are hardly dime a dozen. It's also very optimistic assuming that there's an actual album at the end of this Scottryche nonsense.
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The “groundbreaking” album was RFO imo.
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I don't consider Toddryche actual Queensryche albums. But I do consider them excellent albums.
Yeah honestly, I get that. Even as someone who's discovered the band much more recently, there's a kind of different vibe around the last 3 albums. Having said that, the same could arguably be said of the 1999-2010 era of the band, compared to the earlier material.
Hey my bro Tac,
Im excited for Scottyryche for the DRAMA!!!!! and I always like that something 'odd and unusual" and Scott has odd tastes. Its the same reason i have zero interest in Toddsyrche , there is NOTHING NEW in Toddsryche, its just blah formula paint by numbers shlock metal with no meaning to me, I care less about his vocals and drumming , its just "me too" metal and that was never what I wanted from the talented Original QR
I mean... Queensryche weren't even really at the cutting edge with Operation Mindcrime or Empire either, it can be argued. Iron Maiden beat them to the punch in regards to 80s metal concept albums and Empire was mostly slick glam metal with some Floydian moments. I'd also hardly call the Todd era albums paint-by-numbers, I'd like to see your average metal band do a powerful ballad like Dark Reverie or something as adventurous, yet compact as Launder the Conscience or Bent. It's heavier, but I'd argue no less creative. Eye9, Inside Out and Propaganda Fashion are hardly dime a dozen. It's also very optimistic assuming that there's an actual album at the end of this Scottryche nonsense.
Not much I agree with on your post. QR was completely different than Maiden or JP even, and OMC was very unique, I dont think a metal band had done anything like it ever before and none have done it better since. I will say the EP had some Accept in it at times but no Maiden vibe at all and not much of JP vibe IMO.
To me Maiden was lifted from the bones of Thin Lizzy compositions and JP to some degree also. so its all been done before in some ways. No Toddsyche songs are much of anything new at all and most good bands could do any Toddsyrche songs, certainly a pro metal band. Id say that whole Toddsyrche CD is mediocre IMO, if you enjoy it thats great ! enjoy Oh I believe Scott is very serious about his QR and music is coming, we shall see ! : )
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The “groundbreaking” album was RFO imo.
No doubt It was odd and eerie and willing to take some chances, and Tates voice was so stellar but it was without the corny vibe of Maiden and JP , it was sophisticated at the same time
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The “groundbreaking” album was RFO imo.
No doubt It was odd and eerie and willing to take some chances, and Tates voice was so stellar but it was without the corny vibe of Maiden and JP , it was sophisticated at the same time
Honestly, I found the EP groundbreaking.
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The “groundbreaking” album was RFO imo.
No doubt It was odd and eerie and willing to take some chances, and Tates voice was so stellar but it was without the corny vibe of Maiden and JP , it was sophisticated at the same time
Honestly, I found the EP groundbreaking.
Me too tates soring vocals on QoTR was insane.... goosebumps it had that magic that is undeniable. looking back objectively it had a lot of Accept in it but it was much much more, TLWB was really the song to me . Tate really had what no ther singer had , there was somehting in his delivery his ability to paint with his voice he really could transport one with his voice and lyrics it felt alive and real , it was something Halford couldnt do or Maiden or really anyone in metal. Lynott had that ability to me way back but that was early metal aka Hard Rock
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actually The Warning was also it still mystifying and the subject are still relevant it had a sound some sort of hollow fullness that felt unlike anything else and again tates voice was really unreal, I wore out many copies of all the early stuff
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I don't consider Toddryche actual Queensryche albums. But I do consider them excellent albums.
Yeah honestly, I get that. Even as someone who's discovered the band much more recently, there's a kind of different vibe around the last 3 albums. Having said that, the same could arguably be said of the 1999-2010 era of the band, compared to the earlier material.
Hey my bro Tac,
Im excited for Scottyryche for the DRAMA!!!!! and I always like that something 'odd and unusual" and Scott has odd tastes. Its the same reason i have zero interest in Toddsyrche , there is NOTHING NEW in Toddsryche, its just blah formula paint by numbers shlock metal with no meaning to me, I care less about his vocals and drumming , its just "me too" metal and that was never what I wanted from the talented Original QR
I mean... Queensryche weren't even really at the cutting edge with Operation Mindcrime or Empire either, it can be argued. Iron Maiden beat them to the punch in regards to 80s metal concept albums and Empire was mostly slick glam metal with some Floydian moments. I'd also hardly call the Todd era albums paint-by-numbers, I'd like to see your average metal band do a powerful ballad like Dark Reverie or something as adventurous, yet compact as Launder the Conscience or Bent. It's heavier, but I'd argue no less creative. Eye9, Inside Out and Propaganda Fashion are hardly dime a dozen. It's also very optimistic assuming that there's an actual album at the end of this Scottryche nonsense.
for you I went back and took another listen to the verdict.. I hated it more than I did when it came out. it will not age well IMO as always. again music is subjective but I truly dont like it, I wanted to like it but it was unbearable to my ears and the songs mean nothing to me, its too much fakery and sound effects to cover for weakness.. again MY OPINION it sounds so processed in a way that I dont like even.
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EPICVIEW—man, I love your passion and (most of) your posts, but I gotta know, are you typing with mittens? :rollin
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Not much I agree with on your post. QR was completely different than Maiden or JP even, and OMC was very unique, I dont think a metal band had done anything like it ever before and none have done it better since. I will say the EP had some Accept in it at times but no Maiden vibe at all and not much of JP vibe IMO.
To me Maiden was lifted from the bones of Thin Lizzy compositions and JP to some degree also. so its all been done before in some ways. No Toddsyche songs are much of anything new at all and most good bands could do any Toddsyrche songs, certainly a pro metal band. Id say that whole Toddsyrche CD is mediocre IMO, if you enjoy it thats great ! enjoy Oh I believe Scott is very serious about his QR and music is coming, we shall see ! : )
Musically there isn't much that's wholly unique about OMC (other than Suite Sister Mary maybe), let's be honest. Queensryche seem to have a similar stylistic pallete to Maiden because they both took influence from both early heavy metal and 70s progressive rock. It's easy to forget that a lot of early heavy metal in general was also wrapped up in the influence of contemporary progressive rock as well, because something like Sad Wings of Destiny (operatic vocal performances, dystopian lyrical themes, usage of interludes to help pace the album, songs that transition into each other, multi-part suite structures and all within that metallic style, albeit an early form still with some bluesy elements) I think broke way more ground than Operation Mindcrime did in that regard, not to mention Rush. We've also got bands like Rainbow and Scorpions that, at times, have a pretty strong resemblance to the sound that Queensryche would come to embody. I mean hell, Empire almost takes the sound of 80s Rainbow and mainly just adds a bit more dramatic weight to it really, while the twin-guitar interplay in tracks like Revolution Calling is a total Scorpions thing. Even Suite Sister Mary could be compared to something like Black Sabbath's Megalomania and the gravitas in a track like The Mission is matched by Rainbow's Stargazer. Operation Mindcrime is very much a cocktail of Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Pink Floyd... and that's a good thing because that mix sounds really compelling to many and it worked. RfO is interesting and experimental for sure, but let's not forget that it was largely a product of the band blending more contemporary influences within their 80s metal sound. It's not a coincidence that they cover Lisa Dalbello on there, after all.
If you think most good current metal bands could compose something like what Todd era Queensryche do in this style, then I'd be happy to hear where they are. Modern US-style power metal isn't exactly a thriving genre, after all. Iced Earth jumped the shark, Helstar's last EP was mediocre even in spite of Vampiro being great, Virgin Steele are a laughing stock, Jag Panzer are doing alright but aren't exactly bristling with energy, Vicious Rumours are on autopilot. None of those have the strength of Queensryche's output in the last 8 years in my view, other than perhaps Helstar on the strength of the last couple full-lengths. Witherfall and Pharaoh are doing brilliantly in my opinion but I'd say those are exceptions to the rule. Todd's own solo album may count for something too, as it executes its power/thrash stylings with a ton of energy, keen riff-work and well paced songwriting. By the same token, Operation Mindcrime I'd say is parallelled by such albums like The Crimson Idol, Streets, Hall of the Mountain King, Refuge Denied, Transcendence, Abigail, Awaken the Guardian, Digital Dictator and Seventh Son of a Seventh Son. In different ways of course, but the late 80s were a strong era for more mature heavy metal in general, not just Queensryche.
I'll repeat that if Scott is serious about QR, then he's in for a lot of legal trouble. Wilton and Jackson are notably still performing with Torre and Lundgren, so the idea that this is a legitimate Queensryche project is honestly kind of laughable to me. Scott is off his rocker trying to claim the band's name for himself from the looks of things. If he wanted to put out his own music, he can do that... but for him to straight up take the Queensryche name for it would be incredibly stupid, given that the rights for the name were already settled back in 2013 or so. The clip on the site isn't even that avant-garde, it just sort of sounds like a modern video game OST like seen in the new Wolfenstein games.
Honestly, I found the EP groundbreaking.
It was at the forefront of what would become US power metal, possibly alongside Warlord's Deliver Us EP that came out in the same year. It's easy to forget that Queensryche had just as strong an impact on that scene (if not more, honestly) than on progressive metal. Still heavy metal in essence, but much more theatrical and with a certain mystique about it.
for you I went back and took another listen to the verdict.. I hated it more than I did when it came out. it will not age well IMO as always. again music is subjective but I truly dont like it, I wanted to like it but it was unbearable to my ears and the songs mean nothing to me, its too much fakery and sound effects to cover for weakness.. again MY OPINION it sounds so processed in a way that I dont like even.
I mean alright, tastes are tastes of course. However, I'm not really sure that there's really any more "fakery" than any other notable modern metal album, as far as I know it only does what's pretty much standard practice. Geoff himself is doing the exact same thing in his own projects (which I don't begrudge him for) and Scott's own music will inevitably have a lot of that. I mean hell, that clip on the QR3 site is as modern and "fake" as it gets. I guess there's the element to which Todd La Torre has that high, steely, crystalline tone that almost sounds processed by default, kind of like Midnight from Crimson Glory. That, paired with modern production values I can see sounding quite harsh to some but to me, it goes well with the more aggressive material. This does make me wonder whether you just sort of don't like the style that Todd era Queensryche (the kind of riff-focued, heavy power metal type of sound that has less focus on the more ethereal, understated elements of early QR) is going for.
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Not much I agree with on your post. QR was completely different than Maiden or JP even, and OMC was very unique, I dont think a metal band had done anything like it ever before and none have done it better since. I will say the EP had some Accept in it at times but no Maiden vibe at all and not much of JP vibe IMO.
To me Maiden was lifted from the bones of Thin Lizzy compositions and JP to some degree also. so its all been done before in some ways. No Toddsyche songs are much of anything new at all and most good bands could do any Toddsyrche songs, certainly a pro metal band. Id say that whole Toddsyrche CD is mediocre IMO, if you enjoy it thats great ! enjoy Oh I believe Scott is very serious about his QR and music is coming, we shall see ! : )
Musically there isn't much that's wholly unique about OMC (other than Suite Sister Mary maybe), let's be honest. Queensryche seem to have a similar stylistic pallete to Maiden because they both took influence from both early heavy metal and 70s progressive rock. It's easy to forget that a lot of early heavy metal in general was also wrapped up in the influence of contemporary progressive rock as well, because something like Sad Wings of Destiny (operatic vocal performances, dystopian lyrical themes, usage of interludes to help pace the album, songs that transition into each other, multi-part suite structures and all within that metallic style, albeit an early form still with some bluesy elements) I think broke way more ground than Operation Mindcrime did in that regard, not to mention Rush. We've also got bands like Rainbow and Scorpions that, at times, have a pretty strong resemblance to the sound that Queensryche would come to embody. I mean hell, Empire almost takes the sound of 80s Rainbow and mainly just adds a bit more dramatic weight to it really, while the twin-guitar interplay in tracks like Revolution Calling is a total Scorpions thing. Even Suite Sister Mary could be compared to something like Black Sabbath's Megalomania and the gravitas in a track like The Mission is matched by Rainbow's Stargazer. Operation Mindcrime is very much a cocktail of Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Pink Floyd... and that's a good thing because that mix sounds really compelling to many and it worked. RfO is interesting and experimental for sure, but let's not forget that it was largely a product of the band blending more contemporary influences within their 80s metal sound. It's not a coincidence that they cover Lisa Dalbello on there, after all.
If you think most good current metal bands could compose something like what Todd era Queensryche do in this style, then I'd be happy to hear where they are. Modern US-style power metal isn't exactly a thriving genre, after all. Iced Earth jumped the shark, Helstar's last EP was mediocre even in spite of Vampiro being great, Virgin Steele are a laughing stock, Jag Panzer are doing alright but aren't exactly bristling with energy, Vicious Rumours are on autopilot. None of those have the strength of Queensryche's output in the last 8 years in my view, other than perhaps Helstar on the strength of the last couple full-lengths. Witherfall and Pharaoh are doing brilliantly in my opinion but I'd say those are exceptions to the rule. Todd's own solo album may count for something too, as it executes its power/thrash stylings with a ton of energy, keen riff-work and well paced songwriting. By the same token, Operation Mindcrime I'd say is parallelled by such albums like The Crimson Idol, Streets, Hall of the Mountain King, Refuge Denied, Transcendence, Abigail, Awaken the Guardian, Digital Dictator and Seventh Son of a Seventh Son. In different ways of course, but the late 80s were a strong era for more mature heavy metal in general, not just Queensryche.
I'll repeat that if Scott is serious about QR, then he's in for a lot of legal trouble. Wilton and Jackson are notably still performing with Torre and Lundgren, so the idea that this is a legitimate Queensryche project is honestly kind of laughable to me. Scott is off his rocker trying to claim the band's name for himself from the looks of things. If he wanted to put out his own music, he can do that... but for him to straight up take the Queensryche name for it would be incredibly stupid, given that the rights for the name were already settled back in 2013 or so. The clip on the site isn't even that avant-garde, it just sort of sounds like a modern video game OST like seen in the new Wolfenstein games.
Honestly, I found the EP groundbreaking.
It was at the forefront of what would become US power metal, possibly alongside Warlord's Deliver Us EP that came out in the same year. It's easy to forget that Queensryche had just as strong an impact on that scene (if not more, honestly) than on progressive metal. Still heavy metal in essence, but much more theatrical and with a certain mystique about it.
for you I went back and took another listen to the verdict.. I hated it more than I did when it came out. it will not age well IMO as always. again music is subjective but I truly dont like it, I wanted to like it but it was unbearable to my ears and the songs mean nothing to me, its too much fakery and sound effects to cover for weakness.. again MY OPINION it sounds so processed in a way that I dont like even.
I mean alright, tastes are tastes of course. However, I'm not really sure that there's really any more "fakery" than any other notable modern metal album, as far as I know it only does what's pretty much standard practice. Geoff himself is doing the exact same thing in his own projects (which I don't begrudge him for) and Scott's own music will inevitably have a lot of that. I mean hell, that clip on the QR3 site is as modern and "fake" as it gets. I guess there's the element to which Todd La Torre has that high, steely, crystalline tone that almost sounds processed by default, kind of like Midnight from Crimson Glory. That, paired with modern production values I can see sounding quite harsh to some but to me, it goes well with the more aggressive material. This does make me wonder whether you just sort of don't like the style that Todd era Queensryche (the kind of riff-focued, heavy power metal type of sound that has less focus on the more ethereal, understated elements of early QR) is going for.
enjoy bro I disagree on OMC the rest is debatable
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Great post @Enigmachine - I'd hammer the "like" button if there were one.
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Great post @Enigmachine - I'd hammer the "like" button if there were one.
May I ask what QR OMC song sounds like Rainbow, Rush or Scorpions in 1985? or what album at that time sounded like and was story like OMC was with full video story and the singer playing the main character? I saw Maiden with Paul D and saw JP on the Hellbent tour forward I saw most every band of the genre at that time, I saw and heard nothing like QR, I saw QR in 1983 onward. Im not seeing the comparison at all , The verdict I hear a lot of Ratt to Love Hate even. Im curious as an old folk ...as I dont see it?? QR really didnt fit in any box. Nothing sounded like the Warning even or RFO , OMC was for my generation truly unique Floyds The Wall the only other unique thing going at the time to me
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The verdict I here a lot of Ratt
The ultimate insult. Your hate know no bounds. :lol
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The verdict I here a lot of Ratt
The ultimate insult. Your hate know no bounds. :lol
I loved Ratt , fun guys to party with also
My love knows no bounds : )
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double post my bad
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So I cut my front lawn to the EP and Warning. This is my Queensryche sweet spot.
Scott's drumming on En Force is amazing. And Deliverance might be my all time favorite air drumming song.
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So I cut my front lawn to the EP and Warning. This is my Queensryche sweet spot.
Scott's drumming on En Force is amazing. And Deliverance might be my all time favorite air drumming song.
agreed Scott really is an important ingredient and a truly unique sounding drummer its obvious hes not on the verdict the drums sound slappy and regular, after Peart I thought Scott was the best
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Not much I agree with on your post. QR was completely different than Maiden or JP even, and OMC was very unique, I dont think a metal band had done anything like it ever before and none have done it better since. I will say the EP had some Accept in it at times but no Maiden vibe at all and not much of JP vibe IMO.
To me Maiden was lifted from the bones of Thin Lizzy compositions and JP to some degree also. so its all been done before in some ways. No Toddsyche songs are much of anything new at all and most good bands could do any Toddsyrche songs, certainly a pro metal band. Id say that whole Toddsyrche CD is mediocre IMO, if you enjoy it thats great ! enjoy Oh I believe Scott is very serious about his QR and music is coming, we shall see ! : )
Musically there isn't much that's wholly unique about OMC (other than Suite Sister Mary maybe), let's be honest. Queensryche seem to have a similar stylistic pallete to Maiden because they both took influence from both early heavy metal and 70s progressive rock. It's easy to forget that a lot of early heavy metal in general was also wrapped up in the influence of contemporary progressive rock as well, because something like Sad Wings of Destiny (operatic vocal performances, dystopian lyrical themes, usage of interludes to help pace the album, songs that transition into each other, multi-part suite structures and all within that metallic style, albeit an early form still with some bluesy elements) I think broke way more ground than Operation Mindcrime did in that regard, not to mention Rush. We've also got bands like Rainbow and Scorpions that, at times, have a pretty strong resemblance to the sound that Queensryche would come to embody. I mean hell, Empire almost takes the sound of 80s Rainbow and mainly just adds a bit more dramatic weight to it really, while the twin-guitar interplay in tracks like Revolution Calling is a total Scorpions thing. Even Suite Sister Mary could be compared to something like Black Sabbath's Megalomania and the gravitas in a track like The Mission is matched by Rainbow's Stargazer. Operation Mindcrime is very much a cocktail of Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Pink Floyd... and that's a good thing because that mix sounds really compelling to many and it worked. RfO is interesting and experimental for sure, but let's not forget that it was largely a product of the band blending more contemporary influences within their 80s metal sound. It's not a coincidence that they cover Lisa Dalbello on there, after all.
If you think most good current metal bands could compose something like what Todd era Queensryche do in this style, then I'd be happy to hear where they are. Modern US-style power metal isn't exactly a thriving genre, after all. Iced Earth jumped the shark, Helstar's last EP was mediocre even in spite of Vampiro being great, Virgin Steele are a laughing stock, Jag Panzer are doing alright but aren't exactly bristling with energy, Vicious Rumours are on autopilot. None of those have the strength of Queensryche's output in the last 8 years in my view, other than perhaps Helstar on the strength of the last couple full-lengths. Witherfall and Pharaoh are doing brilliantly in my opinion but I'd say those are exceptions to the rule. Todd's own solo album may count for something too, as it executes its power/thrash stylings with a ton of energy, keen riff-work and well paced songwriting. By the same token, Operation Mindcrime I'd say is parallelled by such albums like The Crimson Idol, Streets, Hall of the Mountain King, Refuge Denied, Transcendence, Abigail, Awaken the Guardian, Digital Dictator and Seventh Son of a Seventh Son. In different ways of course, but the late 80s were a strong era for more mature heavy metal in general, not just Queensryche.
I'll repeat that if Scott is serious about QR, then he's in for a lot of legal trouble. Wilton and Jackson are notably still performing with Torre and Lundgren, so the idea that this is a legitimate Queensryche project is honestly kind of laughable to me. Scott is off his rocker trying to claim the band's name for himself from the looks of things. If he wanted to put out his own music, he can do that... but for him to straight up take the Queensryche name for it would be incredibly stupid, given that the rights for the name were already settled back in 2013 or so. The clip on the site isn't even that avant-garde, it just sort of sounds like a modern video game OST like seen in the new Wolfenstein games.
Honestly, I found the EP groundbreaking.
It was at the forefront of what would become US power metal, possibly alongside Warlord's Deliver Us EP that came out in the same year. It's easy to forget that Queensryche had just as strong an impact on that scene (if not more, honestly) than on progressive metal. Still heavy metal in essence, but much more theatrical and with a certain mystique about it.
for you I went back and took another listen to the verdict.. I hated it more than I did when it came out. it will not age well IMO as always. again music is subjective but I truly dont like it, I wanted to like it but it was unbearable to my ears and the songs mean nothing to me, its too much fakery and sound effects to cover for weakness.. again MY OPINION it sounds so processed in a way that I dont like even.
I mean alright, tastes are tastes of course. However, I'm not really sure that there's really any more "fakery" than any other notable modern metal album, as far as I know it only does what's pretty much standard practice. Geoff himself is doing the exact same thing in his own projects (which I don't begrudge him for) and Scott's own music will inevitably have a lot of that. I mean hell, that clip on the QR3 site is as modern and "fake" as it gets. I guess there's the element to which Todd La Torre has that high, steely, crystalline tone that almost sounds processed by default, kind of like Midnight from Crimson Glory. That, paired with modern production values I can see sounding quite harsh to some but to me, it goes well with the more aggressive material. This does make me wonder whether you just sort of don't like the style that Todd era Queensryche (the kind of riff-focued, heavy power metal type of sound that has less focus on the more ethereal, understated elements of early QR) is going for.
I dont hear anything on the Verdict that reminds me of QR nor early QR . If it wasnt called QR id never know it was them, You think its "metal" and that connotes to you old QR but I dont hear the QR sound in it , but enjoy bro its all good ,
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Agreed on RFO being groundbreaking, taking nothing away anything from the EP and Warning, which are obviously far from standard metal albums and fantastic in their own right. I don't know, I guess it's Tate introducing more of his theatrical, lower register delivery, the production choices (the album might sound a bit dated now, but some of those choices were undeniably out-of-the box at the time) and that futuristic vibe...weird, but not trying hard to be ...super-cool, I think. Plus, of course, the songs are incredible.
My favorite Queensryche is O:M, but RFO is probably tied with PL in second place
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Agreed on RFO being groundbreaking, taking nothing away anything from the EP and Warning, which are obviously far from standard metal albums and fantastic in their own right. I don't know, I guess it's Tate introducing more of his theatrical, lower register delivery, the production choices (the album might sound a bit dated now, but some of those choices were undeniably out-of-the box at the time) and that futuristic vibe...weird, but not trying hard to be ...super-cool, I think. Plus, of course, the songs are incredible.
My favorite Queensryche is O:M, but RFO is probably tied with PL in second place
I was not into RFO when it came out. I was 17 and had just graduated HS at the time. It was so not heavy, and those album pics.. Yikes!!
But it has aged really well, and I like it a lot now.
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When I discovering Ryche, RFO was the only one I couldn't take to. EP, Warning, Mindcrime and Empire were all home runs but I didn't 'get' RFO. But, yeah, I've appreciated it and come to understand it over time, I think it's excellent now and agree, has aged fantasticly.
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I dont hear anything on the Verdict that reminds me of QR nor early QR . If it wasnt called QR id never know it was them, You think its "metal" and that connotes to you old QR but I dont hear the QR sound in it , but enjoy bro its all good ,
The theatrical balladry of Dark Reverie, the twin guitar layering on Man the Machine, the quirky, cerebral, yet groovy nature of a song like Propaganda Fashion, idk it's all still there, just in a modern and heavier form. A song like Arrow of Time off Condition Human also would've felt very much at home on The Warning imo. Very much got that signature twin lead and triumphant, yet subtly understated chorus. It doesn't matter if it reminds one of QR though, because I still think the last 3 albums are good on their own merits, some production issues aside.
agreed Scott really is an important ingredient and a truly unique sounding drummer its obvious hes not on the verdict the drums sound slappy and regular, after Peart I thought Scott was the best
Honestly... am I the only one who doesn't really hear it? The drums on the albums he was on aren't really anything out of this world to me. They provide that grounded, rock solid foundation. The drums on The Verdict actually feel more intricate and progressive to my ears, with Scott mostly having some pretty straight, but very punchy beats. I still appreciate what he brings to the QR sound, but I don't think it's something particularly unique.
May I ask what QR OMC song sounds like Rainbow, Rush or Scorpions in 1985? or what album at that time sounded like and was story like OMC was with full video story and the singer playing the main character? I saw Maiden with Paul D and saw JP on the Hellbent tour forward I saw most every band of the genre at that time, I saw and heard nothing like QR, I saw QR in 1983 onward. Im not seeing the comparison at all , The verdict I hear a lot of Ratt to Love Hate even. Im curious as an old folk ...as I dont see it?? QR really didnt fit in any box. Nothing sounded like the Warning even or RFO , OMC was for my generation truly unique Floyds The Wall the only other unique thing going at the time to me
Revolution Calling is just total Scorpions in that twin guitar lead, as well as that style of harmonised vocal parts in the choruses. An album like Blackout, with songs like No One Like You, very much fit the bill as to what QR did later. Spreak and The Needle Lies are like a contemporary twist on something like Kill the King or Hellion / Electric Eye with a little more cold dystopian melancholy. Again, Iron Maiden did Seventh Son of a Seventh Son (might not have been the same level of rock opera grandeur but you can tell that it was on that route) before Operation Mindcrime (not to mention Rush's 2112, which also has much more of that rock opera feeling to it). The Warning to me feels very similar to more cerebral 70s Judas Priest material but with a de-emphasis on the blues elements and it's not a million miles away from contemporary bands like Iron Maiden (a sort of NWOBHM vibe in general on songs like Deliverance), Warlord or Diamond Head either.
It's mainly just the increased emphasis on the theatricality and the more atmospheric side of things, but it's not like that was necessarily absent before in the metal scene, because Mercyful Fate (and later King Diamond) had that element too, even if in a much darker context. Maybe the way they presented the album in a live setting was unique I guess, but that itself I can imagine takes after The Wall in a lot of ways (much like the album itself, the beginning of Eyes of a Stranger emulating Empty Spaces pretty closely). I will grant you that despite its very clear mixture of influences, RfO does stand alone in its interpretation of them. It's definitely the most unique of QR's albums in its general cold and dystopian sonic and stylistic palette. I'd also be interested to hear from Ratt or Love Hate remind you of The Verdict, because to me, Todd era feel more in the vein of US-style power metal bands like Sanctuary, early Savatage and Vicious Rumours.
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The EP and Warning were excellent albums that certainly showcased an incredibly talented metal band. But I never really thought of them as doing something that hadn’t been done before.
RFO did many things I had never heard done by a metal band before. The eerie weird vibe that it put off was actually very unsettling in places. But that’s exactly what made it so perfect. It was not a straightforward prog metal album...it was actually progressing. That’s why I consider that album in particular to be “groundbreaking”.
That’s also why I’ve always nicknamed PL “RFO with a budget”. Those two albums are a much better definition of “the QR sound” than Empire. And maybe even than OMC...although OMC had SSM which IMO is their definitive masterpiece. (More of the eerie/unsettling factor with the choir and spoken word stuff)
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I dont hear anything on the Verdict that reminds me of QR nor early QR . If it wasnt called QR id never know it was them, You think its "metal" and that connotes to you old QR but I dont hear the QR sound in it , but enjoy bro its all good ,
The theatrical balladry of Dark Reverie, the twin guitar layering on Man the Machine, the quirky, cerebral, yet groovy nature of a song like Propaganda Fashion, idk it's all still there, just in a modern and heavier form. A song like Arrow of Time off Condition Human also would've felt very much at home on The Warning imo. Very much got that signature twin lead and triumphant, yet subtly understated chorus. It doesn't matter if it reminds one of QR though, because I still think the last 3 albums are good on their own merits, some production issues aside.
agreed Scott really is an important ingredient and a truly unique sounding drummer its obvious hes not on the verdict the drums sound slappy and regular, after Peart I thought Scott was the best
Honestly... am I the only one who doesn't really hear it? The drums on the albums he was on aren't really anything out of this world to me. They provide that grounded, rock solid foundation. The drums on The Verdict actually feel more intricate and progressive to my ears, with Scott mostly having some pretty straight, but very punchy beats. I still appreciate what he brings to the QR sound, but I don't think it's something particularly unique.
May I ask what QR OMC song sounds like Rainbow, Rush or Scorpions in 1985? or what album at that time sounded like and was story like OMC was with full video story and the singer playing the main character? I saw Maiden with Paul D and saw JP on the Hellbent tour forward I saw most every band of the genre at that time, I saw and heard nothing like QR, I saw QR in 1983 onward. Im not seeing the comparison at all , The verdict I hear a lot of Ratt to Love Hate even. Im curious as an old folk ...as I dont see it?? QR really didnt fit in any box. Nothing sounded like the Warning even or RFO , OMC was for my generation truly unique Floyds The Wall the only other unique thing going at the time to me
Revolution Calling is just total Scorpions in that twin guitar lead, as well as that style of harmonised vocal parts in the choruses. An album like Blackout, with songs like No One Like You, very much fit the bill as to what QR did later. Spreak and The Needle Lies are like a contemporary twist on something like Kill the King or Hellion / Electric Eye with a little more cold dystopian melancholy. Again, Iron Maiden did Seventh Son of a Seventh Son (might not have been the same level of rock opera grandeur but you can tell that it was on that route) before Operation Mindcrime (not to mention Rush's 2112, which also has much more of that rock opera feeling to it). The Warning to me feels very similar to more cerebral 70s Judas Priest material but with a de-emphasis on the blues elements and it's not a million miles away from contemporary bands like Iron Maiden (a sort of NWOBHM vibe in general on songs like Deliverance), Warlord or Diamond Head either.
It's mainly just the increased emphasis on the theatricality and the more atmospheric side of things, but it's not like that was necessarily absent before in the metal scene, because Mercyful Fate (and later King Diamond) had that element too, even if in a much darker context. Maybe the way they presented the album in a live setting was unique I guess, but that itself I can imagine takes after The Wall in a lot of ways (much like the album itself, the beginning of Eyes of a Stranger emulating Empty Spaces pretty closely). I will grant you that despite its very clear mixture of influences, RfO does stand alone in its interpretation of them. It's definitely the most unique of QR's albums in its general cold and dystopian sonic and stylistic palette. I'd also be interested to hear from Ratt or Love Hate remind you of The Verdict, because to me, Todd era feel more in the vein of US-style power metal bands like Sanctuary, early Savatage and Vicious Rumours.
sorry Im not seeing any of that If you do thats great...your post was well thought out and its fun discussion but I dont see any of that.... I saw most of the bands you mention and I dont see the comparo. Ive never in my life heard any of that in any Tate Chris QR, If you think Todd and Scott are the same level drumming I dont see that at all also but its all subjective and what one enjoys
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Agreed on RFO being groundbreaking, taking nothing away anything from the EP and Warning, which are obviously far from standard metal albums and fantastic in their own right. I don't know, I guess it's Tate introducing more of his theatrical, lower register delivery, the production choices (the album might sound a bit dated now, but some of those choices were undeniably out-of-the box at the time) and that futuristic vibe...weird, but not trying hard to be ...super-cool, I think. Plus, of course, the songs are incredible.
My favorite Queensryche is O:M, but RFO is probably tied with PL in second place
I just want to say welcome as I see you are new. This is a very nice place with very nice people
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Agreed on RFO being groundbreaking, taking nothing away anything from the EP and Warning, which are obviously far from standard metal albums and fantastic in their own right. I don't know, I guess it's Tate introducing more of his theatrical, lower register delivery, the production choices (the album might sound a bit dated now, but some of those choices were undeniably out-of-the box at the time) and that futuristic vibe...weird, but not trying hard to be ...super-cool, I think. Plus, of course, the songs are incredible.
My favorite Queensryche is O:M, but RFO is probably tied with PL in second place
I was not into RFO when it came out. I was 17 and had just graduated HS at the time. It was so not heavy, and those album pics.. Yikes!!
But it has aged really well, and I like it a lot now.
Bingo Bro like many QR Cds RFO was not a commercial success at all
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The EP and Warning were excellent albums that certainly showcased an incredibly talented metal band. But I never really thought of them as doing something that hadn’t been done before.
RFO did many things I had never heard done by a metal band before. The eerie weird vibe that it put off was actually very unsettling in places. But that’s exactly what made it so perfect. It was not a straightforward prog metal album...it was actually progressing. That’s why I consider that album in particular to be “groundbreaking”.
That’s also why I’ve always nicknamed PL “RFO with a budget”. Those two albums are a much better definition of “the QR sound” than Empire. And maybe even than OMC...although OMC had SSM which IMO is their definitive masterpiece. (More of the eerie/unsettling factor with the choir and spoken word stuff)
I hear ya ,,,,but the EP and Warning were not like anything else in so many ways and to me way above anything other than Judas, but I never felt other than Tates voice Judas and QR had much in common at all . Judas was not as serious as Tates Vocals and lyrics and , think of Roads to Madness and that song in itself was unlike anything else etc It was fun time for metal, but so much was mediocre think of White Lion that came out abut the same time and so many just meh stuff, Anthrax wiith Fistfull was unique and Metallica was also bringin in a new sound , to me so was Ryche
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Agreed on RFO being groundbreaking, taking nothing away anything from the EP and Warning, which are obviously far from standard metal albums and fantastic in their own right. I don't know, I guess it's Tate introducing more of his theatrical, lower register delivery, the production choices (the album might sound a bit dated now, but some of those choices were undeniably out-of-the box at the time) and that futuristic vibe...weird, but not trying hard to be ...super-cool, I think. Plus, of course, the songs are incredible.
My favorite Queensryche is O:M, but RFO is probably tied with PL in second place
I just want to say welcome as I see you are new. This is a very nice place with very nice people
Thank you! Yes, I have come to realize that, as I've been reading the forum for some time. Plenty of great discussions/exchanges. Thought it was time to have some fun participating ;)
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That’s also why I’ve always nicknamed PL “RFO with a budget”. Those two albums are a much better definition of “the QR sound” than Empire. And maybe even than OMC...although OMC had SSM which IMO is their definitive masterpiece. (More of the eerie/unsettling factor with the choir and spoken word stuff)
This is SO true for me too. And, yes, PL sounds unbelievably good. One of my absolute favorite productions of all time.
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Tate acoustic in March I found this interesting and with my eyes shut he sounds like the 90s....for 62 amazing and gutsy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSurFYk4bNo
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Tate acoustic in March I found this interesting and with my eyes shut he sounds like the 90s....for 62 amazing and gutsy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSurFYk4bNo
I shut my eyes and it sounded like he was in his 90's.
It is interesting though.
I found the performance of Eyes Of A Stranger.
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And then there's this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3M8ak-cWJ8
:facepalm:
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And then there's this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3M8ak-cWJ8
:facepalm:
Must be a cheap phone making him sound bad! :biggrin:
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And then there's this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3M8ak-cWJ8
:facepalm:
Oof. Tate still has lung power, but I cannot stand the tone of his live voice anymore. Trying to listen to that chorus in "I Dream in Infrared" was like pulling teeth. On the snowball's chance in hades he's reading this, just do whatever Tobi tells you to do, sir.
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And then there's this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3M8ak-cWJ8
:facepalm:
Oof. Tate still has lung power, but I cannot stand the tone of his live voice anymore. Trying to listen to that chorus in "I Dream in Infrared" was like pulling teeth. On the snowball's chance in hades he's reading this, just do whatever Tobi tells you to do, sir.
I say live tone here, but really he sounds like this on both Sweet Oblivion records and it keeps me from liking either of them at all. Thankfully, Tobias Sammett refuses to accept anything less than 110 percent on his music.
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And then there's this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3M8ak-cWJ8
:facepalm:
Oof. Tate still has lung power, but I cannot stand the tone of his live voice anymore. Trying to listen to that chorus in "I Dream in Infrared" was like pulling teeth. On the snowball's chance in hades he's reading this, just do whatever Tobi tells you to do, sir.
Re: Infrared. Ouch!! Is that the original key? You know I could have sworn I caught another Youtube performance of that same tune from that same tour that sounded much better. But that is totally awful!!
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Tate acoustic in March I found this interesting and with my eyes shut he sounds like the 90s....for 62 amazing and gutsy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSurFYk4bNo
Fortunately for me I don't need to shut my eyes to use my ears. ;) That's not too bad actually. Helps that he has backup during the chorus.
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I dont hear anything on the Verdict that reminds me of QR nor early QR . If it wasnt called QR id never know it was them, You think its "metal" and that connotes to you old QR but I dont hear the QR sound in it , but enjoy bro its all good ,
The theatrical balladry of Dark Reverie, the twin guitar layering on Man the Machine, the quirky, cerebral, yet groovy nature of a song like Propaganda Fashion, idk it's all still there, just in a modern and heavier form. A song like Arrow of Time off Condition Human also would've felt very much at home on The Warning imo. Very much got that signature twin lead and triumphant, yet subtly understated chorus. It doesn't matter if it reminds one of QR though, because I still think the last 3 albums are good on their own merits, some production issues aside.
Enigma, I'm right there with you on this. Nobody has to like Todd-era QR. And, sure, there are plenty of elements you could point to that are different now from the classic era. That is inevitable. But you are dead-on about the similarities. If you froze me in a time capsule after HITNF, woke me up in 2021, and played me Tribe, and then the three Todd-era albums, and just told me that Chris left and only contributed to about half of Tribe, and didn't tell me anything else, I'm pretty sure my reaction would be: OK, I totally hear the evolution in their sound from the classic line-up era, to Tribe, to the s/t>Condition Human>Verdict. I think any fan not named Epicview would go, "Yeah, sounds like QR to a modern edge to me." Yes, some elements of their sound and their writing changed. But the band always did that. That was one of the things I loved about them when I discovered them during the classic era and they were my favorite band: their sound changed and evolved from album to album, and often reflected what was going on in the music industry at the time, without necessarily being that. So, yeah, a lot is different about the Todd-era albums. But the connective tissue is there to where it sounds like QR. The thing to remember is, love or hate Todd and Parker, they are both immense fans of the band's classic era, and have really done their homework and put in the time to emulate what made the band's sound what it was. Now, if you want to say that the emotion is gone, and it sounds like someone trying to mimmick QR, I think that's fair. I disagree, but I get where you could feel that way. But it does sound like what should have been the natural evolution of QR, and it sounds good.
agreed Scott really is an important ingredient and a truly unique sounding drummer its obvious hes not on the verdict the drums sound slappy and regular, after Peart I thought Scott was the best
Honestly... am I the only one who doesn't really hear it? The drums on the albums he was on aren't really anything out of this world to me. They provide that grounded, rock solid foundation. The drums on The Verdict actually feel more intricate and progressive to my ears, with Scott mostly having some pretty straight, but very punchy beats. I still appreciate what he brings to the QR sound, but I don't think it's something particularly unique.
Well...yes and no. Through Promised Land, Scott was one of my favorite drummers. He may not have been able to touch Peart in terms of technicality. But he was still a beast, and one of the most talented and creative drummers in metal. On HITNF, he severely simplified things, and that was intentional on that album.
After that...I'm not really sure what happened. Quite often, he sounded like a "dumbed down" version of himself. And I don't mean that as an insult. But a lot of the technicality, the power, and the groove that was signature Scott just wasn't there a lot of the time. Not sure why. But in his prime, I consider him to have been a very special drummer, and a crucial part of the signature QR sound. The drumming is definitely different now. But at least I feel they have done a fair job of keeping it technical and trying to at least capture that early vibe.
May I ask what QR OMC song sounds like Rainbow, Rush or Scorpions in 1985? or what album at that time sounded like and was story like OMC was with full video story and the singer playing the main character? I saw Maiden with Paul D and saw JP on the Hellbent tour forward I saw most every band of the genre at that time, I saw and heard nothing like QR, I saw QR in 1983 onward. Im not seeing the comparison at all , The verdict I hear a lot of Ratt to Love Hate even. Im curious as an old folk ...as I dont see it?? QR really didnt fit in any box. Nothing sounded like the Warning even or RFO , OMC was for my generation truly unique Floyds The Wall the only other unique thing going at the time to me
Revolution Calling is just total Scorpions in that twin guitar lead, as well as that style of harmonised vocal parts in the choruses. An album like Blackout, with songs like No One Like You, very much fit the bill as to what QR did later. Spreak and The Needle Lies are like a contemporary twist on something like Kill the King or Hellion / Electric Eye with a little more cold dystopian melancholy. Again, Iron Maiden did Seventh Son of a Seventh Son (might not have been the same level of rock opera grandeur but you can tell that it was on that route) before Operation Mindcrime (not to mention Rush's 2112, which also has much more of that rock opera feeling to it). The Warning to me feels very similar to more cerebral 70s Judas Priest material but with a de-emphasis on the blues elements and it's not a million miles away from contemporary bands like Iron Maiden (a sort of NWOBHM vibe in general on songs like Deliverance), Warlord or Diamond Head either.
This is where you kind of lose me. I mean, I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but you seem to be trying to say that Mindcrime was nothing special and trying to downplay its significance. I disagree with that. Yeah, there were concept albums/rock operas before it. And in many ways, maybe Mindcrime, on paper, is "just another rock opera." But it had a HUGE impact. And it WAS groundbreaking at the time. Honestly, I don't think you can name another concept album/rock opera that had a bigger influence on metal concept albums that came after. Yes, other bands have made them "bigger and better." But you would be hard pressed to find many that weren't influenced in some way by Mindcrime. To take DT as an example, they have been quite open about the fact that Mindcrime was a HUGE influence on SFAM.
I'm not really sure why you also keep saying that Seventh Son was "before" Mindcrime, as if that has any significance. It doesn't. Yes, it was released technically about a month before Mindcrime was. But think about it--one month. It isn't as if Mindcrime somehow took elements of Seventh Son as inspiration. It was already written and recorded long before the public heard a note of Seventh Son. So, again, I'm not sure what significance you are trying to imply.
I also am not sure why you keep making the Scorpions parallel. Not sure I hear it. I mean, yeah, you've got that twin guitar attack. But so did Maiden. So did Priest. I think QR did somewhat pattern themselves after that pattern. But I'm not really hearing Scorpions more than any of those other bands. I have no idea whether they consider Scorpions to be an influence. But either way, again, I'm not sure what the point is. They absolutely did have influences. All bands do. And as with a lot of successful bands, IMO, they took those influences and gradually made them their own, and came up with something that increasingly became more and more unique. ...at least until Chris left and Tate eventually took over. :lol
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And then there's this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3M8ak-cWJ8
:facepalm:
I mean, there is a part of me that admires the man for plowing on with his performance regardless after that first "I'll take you home" around the 2 minute mark. Oof.
I'd love to have sat down with Tate around R4O and pinned down his full vocal range and found out exactly where his natural speaking voice pitch sat and how much of that propensity to speak way down low, even way back in 84, is an affectation because he can. I used to sit alongside a guy at a choir whose speaking voice was pretty much on the same pitch as my light baritone voice and then during warm ups he'd start going down the scale and go well below a C2, into basso profundo territory, much lower than I could go*... range goes both ways.
R4O is an absolutely brutal set of songs to sing for anyone to sing unless they have a really high tenor voice to start with or have world class range and exceptional technique. Tate was the latter.
That he's having a go at singing the whole album decades later, now into his 60s, is a big ask so I don't expect to hear him pinching out every last high note that's in there and for some of the unrelenting high sections I have no issue with him making significant modifications but the end result is such a mixed bag. At times he sounds like he's going to have to go off stage and have a lie down for 20 minutes... at times he's not modifying what he's singing sensibly and absolutely mangles it... at other times I find myself genuinely impressed with what he's doing.
I think what's so odd, to the point of acute Fremdschämen, about it all is that Tate still really tries to, commendably I think, put a bit of theatre into his performance but this is expressed by quite a bit of strutting and preening his way around the stage like he's nailing it and there's times when he's really, really not.
R4O is a fantastic album, btw. You could hear Tate trying to get his innate theatricality into The Warning but about half the time it sounds a bit disconnected from what the rest of the band were doing. Between the two albums they really started to gel with Tate and the progression to R4O was enormous. Now, if I could sit down with DeGarmo or Wilton and find out who wrote what I'd be a happy man...
* overdoing it on whisky the night before, not withstanding.
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I hear ya ,,,,but the EP and Warning were not like anything else in so many ways and to me way above anything other than Judas, but I never felt other than Tates voice Judas and QR had much in common at all . Judas was not as serious as Tates Vocals and lyrics and , think of Roads to Madness and that song in itself was unlike anything else etc It was fun time for metal, but so much was mediocre think of White Lion that came out abut the same time and so many just meh stuff, Anthrax wiith Fistfull was unique and Metallica was also bringin in a new sound , to me so was Ryche
Although I'd argue against the EP having that more serious quality (The Lady Wore Black is the only thing that feels a bit more sombre and serious, with the rest bearing that fun, escapist vibe of a lot of early 80s metal), I can definitely agree that Warning in a way marks a major turning towards metal that was much more mature. I do however think that Judas Priest were an important stepping stone in that progression with Sad Wings of Destiny, even if it had moments of levity in stuff like The Ripper. Dreamer Deceiver, Epitaph and Genocide for instance are pretty lyrically sombre I think. Even still, it's still not to the extent of Queensryche and I can definitely see how they brought a grandeur and emotional weight to the genre that wasn't wholly there before, so that does help me place the importance of the band more clearly.
Well...yes and no. Through Promised Land, Scott was one of my favorite drummers. He may not have been able to touch Peart in terms of technicality. But he was still a beast, and one of the most talented and creative drummers in metal. On HITNF, he severely simplified things, and that was intentional on that album.
After that...I'm not really sure what happened. Quite often, he sounded like a "dumbed down" version of himself. And I don't mean that as an insult. But a lot of the technicality, the power, and the groove that was signature Scott just wasn't there a lot of the time. Not sure why. But in his prime, I consider him to have been a very special drummer, and a crucial part of the signature QR sound. The drumming is definitely different now. But at least I feel they have done a fair job of keeping it technical and trying to at least capture that early vibe.
Maybe I need another listen then. I do remember Empire (and Promised Land iirc) having some really interesting rhythmic moments, but OM felt a little more straight ahead to me. Nothing wrong with that of course and I wouldn't have wanted anything else for the style, but on OM I kind of felt like he came off like a drum machine, at times pretty much just keeping the beat (with exceptions of course, like Spreading the Disease, Speak and Suite Sister Mary where he tries out some more unique beats for the song)... which ironically would fit the theme very well. OM has always been far more of a show of slick, effective songwriting than a work of virtuosic musicianship to me, so I'm less inclined to praise the members in that context, even if they do what they do on that album very effectively, Scott very much included in how he firmly drives the music along. I don't know, maybe I'm making the mistake of judging him by modern standards (comparing him to the drum work in bands like DT, Haken and Leprous) or am remembering things wrong.
This is where you kind of lose me. I mean, I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but you seem to be trying to say that Mindcrime was nothing special and trying to downplay its significance. I disagree with that. Yeah, there were concept albums/rock operas before it. And in many ways, maybe Mindcrime, on paper, is "just another rock opera." But it had a HUGE impact. And it WAS groundbreaking at the time. Honestly, I don't think you can name another concept album/rock opera that had a bigger influence on metal concept albums that came after. Yes, other bands have made them "bigger and better." But you would be hard pressed to find many that weren't influenced in some way by Mindcrime. To take DT as an example, they have been quite open about the fact that Mindcrime was a HUGE influence on SFAM.
I'm not really sure why you also keep saying that Seventh Son was "before" Mindcrime, as if that has any significance. It doesn't. Yes, it was released technically about a month before Mindcrime was. But think about it--one month. It isn't as if Mindcrime somehow took elements of Seventh Son as inspiration. It was already written and recorded long before the public heard a note of Seventh Son. So, again, I'm not sure what significance you are trying to imply.
I also am not sure why you keep making the Scorpions parallel. Not sure I hear it. I mean, yeah, you've got that twin guitar attack. But so did Maiden. So did Priest. I think QR did somewhat pattern themselves after that pattern. But I'm not really hearing Scorpions more than any of those other bands. I have no idea whether they consider Scorpions to be an influence. But either way, again, I'm not sure what the point is. They absolutely did have influences. All bands do. And as with a lot of successful bands, IMO, they took those influences and gradually made them their own, and came up with something that increasingly became more and more unique. ...at least until Chris left and Tate eventually took over. :lol
Well, just to clarify, I think that in the larger scheme of things, Operation Mindcrime was groundbreaking... in the sense that it was very much the first metal opera sort of thing, within the format itself in its context. I also won't deny that it's a huge influence from what came after. It was certainly an important album. I will also concede that, while I listed Seventh Son as beating OM to the title of first metal concept album... it was a somewhat half-baked one, even by their own admission and definitely didn't have that full rock opera construction like OM did. However, I very much come from the perspective that most musical evolution is iterative. I wasn't necessarily meaning to refer to Scorpions (but rather that general scene of where melodic late 70s heavy metal was heading), so perhaps repeating that example was a mistake, although certain songs do give me a Queensryche vibe moreso than Iron Maiden or Judas Priest due to the more sort of mid-paced vibe with the straight ahead beats, as well as the way the backing vocals are layered on a song like Revolution Calling, which I don't see as much in Iron Maiden or Judas Priest and see a bit more in Scoprions with stuff like Rock You Like a Hurricane. I do think that on a pure musical front, Operation Mindcrime is less innovative than something like Rage for Order, but in terms of its general status in terms of its format, its capacity to show how theatrical metal could be, it does certainly equal or even exceed it. I don't think something like Revolution Calling, Speak or Breaking the Silence is more unique than a Neue Regel or Screaming in Digital, though.
I'd also make a similar argument for any of the bands I listed too, I'm certainly in agreement that all bands are a product of their influences. It's mainly something I find fascinating to trace, but I'll admit that I could have missed the mark.
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I will also concede that, while I listed Seventh Son as beating OM to the title of first metal concept album... it was a somewhat half-baked one, even by their own admission and definitely didn't have that full rock opera construction like OM did.
King Diamond's Abigail came out in 1987 :police:
I'm sure there were others even earlier, that I am unaware of.
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King Diamond's Abigail came out in 1987 :police:
I'm sure there were others even earlier, that I am unaware of.
Oh yeah, true. I forgot about that in this context because it's very different tonally from both with that ghost story vibe, but not only does Abigail pre-date Seventh Son, but it's also a fuller and more coherent concept. Fatal Portrait is also sort of a borderline example like Rush's 2112 in that there's a story suite, but it doesn't comprise the full album.
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I dont hear anything on the Verdict that reminds me of QR nor early QR . If it wasnt called QR id never know it was them, You think its "metal" and that connotes to you old QR but I dont hear the QR sound in it , but enjoy bro its all good ,
The theatrical balladry of Dark Reverie, the twin guitar layering on Man the Machine, the quirky, cerebral, yet groovy nature of a song like Propaganda Fashion, idk it's all still there, just in a modern and heavier form. A song like Arrow of Time off Condition Human also would've felt very much at home on The Warning imo. Very much got that signature twin lead and triumphant, yet subtly understated chorus. It doesn't matter if it reminds one of QR though, because I still think the last 3 albums are good on their own merits, some production issues aside.
Enigma, I'm right there with you on this. Nobody has to like Todd-era QR. And, sure, there are plenty of elements you could point to that are different now from the classic era. That is inevitable. But you are dead-on about the similarities. If you froze me in a time capsule after HITNF, woke me up in 2021, and played me Tribe, and then the three Todd-era albums, and just told me that Chris left and only contributed to about half of Tribe, and didn't tell me anything else, I'm pretty sure my reaction would be: OK, I totally hear the evolution in their sound from the classic line-up era, to Tribe, to the s/t>Condition Human>Verdict. I think any fan not named Epicview would go, "Yeah, sounds like QR to a modern edge to me." Yes, some elements of their sound and their writing changed. But the band always did that. That was one of the things I loved about them when I discovered them during the classic era and they were my favorite band: their sound changed and evolved from album to album, and often reflected what was going on in the music industry at the time, without necessarily being that. So, yeah, a lot is different about the Todd-era albums. But the connective tissue is there to where it sounds like QR. The thing to remember is, love or hate Todd and Parker, they are both immense fans of the band's classic era, and have really done their homework and put in the time to emulate what made the band's sound what it was. Now, if you want to say that the emotion is gone, and it sounds like someone trying to mimmick QR, I think that's fair. I disagree, but I get where you could feel that way. But it does sound like what should have been the natural evolution of QR, and it sounds good.
agreed Scott really is an important ingredient and a truly unique sounding drummer its obvious hes not on the verdict the drums sound slappy and regular, after Peart I thought Scott was the best
Honestly... am I the only one who doesn't really hear it? The drums on the albums he was on aren't really anything out of this world to me. They provide that grounded, rock solid foundation. The drums on The Verdict actually feel more intricate and progressive to my ears, with Scott mostly having some pretty straight, but very punchy beats. I still appreciate what he brings to the QR sound, but I don't think it's something particularly unique.
Well...yes and no. Through Promised Land, Scott was one of my favorite drummers. He may not have been able to touch Peart in terms of technicality. But he was still a beast, and one of the most talented and creative drummers in metal. On HITNF, he severely simplified things, and that was intentional on that album.
After that...I'm not really sure what happened. Quite often, he sounded like a "dumbed down" version of himself. And I don't mean that as an insult. But a lot of the technicality, the power, and the groove that was signature Scott just wasn't there a lot of the time. Not sure why. But in his prime, I consider him to have been a very special drummer, and a crucial part of the signature QR sound. The drumming is definitely different now. But at least I feel they have done a fair job of keeping it technical and trying to at least capture that early vibe.
May I ask what QR OMC song sounds like Rainbow, Rush or Scorpions in 1985? or what album at that time sounded like and was story like OMC was with full video story and the singer playing the main character? I saw Maiden with Paul D and saw JP on the Hellbent tour forward I saw most every band of the genre at that time, I saw and heard nothing like QR, I saw QR in 1983 onward. Im not seeing the comparison at all , The verdict I hear a lot of Ratt to Love Hate even. Im curious as an old folk ...as I dont see it?? QR really didnt fit in any box. Nothing sounded like the Warning even or RFO , OMC was for my generation truly unique Floyds The Wall the only other unique thing going at the time to me
Revolution Calling is just total Scorpions in that twin guitar lead, as well as that style of harmonised vocal parts in the choruses. An album like Blackout, with songs like No One Like You, very much fit the bill as to what QR did later. Spreak and The Needle Lies are like a contemporary twist on something like Kill the King or Hellion / Electric Eye with a little more cold dystopian melancholy. Again, Iron Maiden did Seventh Son of a Seventh Son (might not have been the same level of rock opera grandeur but you can tell that it was on that route) before Operation Mindcrime (not to mention Rush's 2112, which also has much more of that rock opera feeling to it). The Warning to me feels very similar to more cerebral 70s Judas Priest material but with a de-emphasis on the blues elements and it's not a million miles away from contemporary bands like Iron Maiden (a sort of NWOBHM vibe in general on songs like Deliverance), Warlord or Diamond Head either.
This is where you kind of lose me. I mean, I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but you seem to be trying to say that Mindcrime was nothing special and trying to downplay its significance. I disagree with that. Yeah, there were concept albums/rock operas before it. And in many ways, maybe Mindcrime, on paper, is "just another rock opera." But it had a HUGE impact. And it WAS groundbreaking at the time. Honestly, I don't think you can name another concept album/rock opera that had a bigger influence on metal concept albums that came after. Yes, other bands have made them "bigger and better." But you would be hard pressed to find many that weren't influenced in some way by Mindcrime. To take DT as an example, they have been quite open about the fact that Mindcrime was a HUGE influence on SFAM.
I'm not really sure why you also keep saying that Seventh Son was "before" Mindcrime, as if that has any significance. It doesn't. Yes, it was released technically about a month before Mindcrime was. But think about it--one month. It isn't as if Mindcrime somehow took elements of Seventh Son as inspiration. It was already written and recorded long before the public heard a note of Seventh Son. So, again, I'm not sure what significance you are trying to imply.
I also am not sure why you keep making the Scorpions parallel. Not sure I hear it. I mean, yeah, you've got that twin guitar attack. But so did Maiden. So did Priest. I think QR did somewhat pattern themselves after that pattern. But I'm not really hearing Scorpions more than any of those other bands. I have no idea whether they consider Scorpions to be an influence. But either way, again, I'm not sure what the point is. They absolutely did have influences. All bands do. And as with a lot of successful bands, IMO, they took those influences and gradually made them their own, and came up with something that increasingly became more and more unique. ...at least until Chris left and Tate eventually took over. :lol
great read and post Boss... On Scott, I thought he was really fantastic on Tribe, his drumming to me was very much a key element that makes that album a truly great one, I disagree on the Verdict, I listened to it 3 times yesterday really trying, I have to say I really dislike it and Id never think it was QR, I really wanted to be swayed but Im not, if anything I found it boring, and just shlocky formula and just odd changes in songs to just say "its cool and we can do that " the song dark reverie I found really uncomfortable and dont hear anything QR in it. but as we have discussed this all really super subjective , I find it fascinating many tiunk it does sound like QR, thats why I wanted to really try again with that CD. at this point Id not see QR and to be honest Im not sure Id even go see Tate as Ive seen him so many times, I may, I may not. I know this sounds really wild but I am super curious what Scottyryche will be, I dont think it will sound like old original QR, I just want to know what madness hes up to !!
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I think the discomfort of Dark Reverie is sort of the point. It's a dark, intense ballad which fits in with how the album as a whole is tonally their darkest and edgiest (or at the very least heaviest). As such, it's a bit more abrasive and the hooks aren't as smooth as Tate's but again, that feels like the idea, what with Todd La Torre generally being much more of a fan of heavier music. It's pretty evident on Todd's solo album, where the songs are often thrashy and aggressive, which feels very appropriate for his voice. On uptempo tracks like Blood of the Levant and Man the Machine, there's almost the feeling that they'd belond on something like that album. There's a bit more dissonance and darkness than is typical for a Queensryche track on those I think, though the latter isn't too far stylistically from somthing like Deliverance otherwise.
Also, probaby best to snip quoted messages when they're that long, just for the sake of space.
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I think the discomfort of Dark Reverie is sort of the point. It's a dark, intense ballad which fits in with how the album as a whole is tonally their darkest and edgiest (or at the very least heaviest). As such, it's a bit more abrasive and the hooks aren't as smooth as Tate's but again, that feels like the idea, what with Todd La Torre generally being much more of a fan of heavier music. It's pretty evident on Todd's solo album, where the songs are often thrashy and aggressive, which feels very appropriate for his voice. On uptempo tracks like Blood of the Levant and Man the Machine, there's almost the feeling that they'd belond on something like that album. There's a bit more dissonance and darkness than is typical for a Queensryche track on those I think, though the latter isn't too far stylistically from somthing like Deliverance otherwise.
Also, probaby best to snip quoted messages when they're that long, just for the sake of space.
I dont like it,,, I find it annoying and a bore. Not a fan of his voice at all either, the guy was a zero until he bumped into Wilton at Namm, was known as a drummer and not a singer but could do a good Tate impersonation. He doesnt do a thing for me, I hate his stage presence even more than his voice . I simply dont see any of what you see at all and thats fine its all subjective, some here are very down on Tate at age 62 and after 40 years of touring . I give Todd credit for taking over QR and taking control of the band even as an employee that Im impressed by !! LOL
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I dont like it,,, I find it annoying and a bore. Not a fan of his voice at all either, the guy was a zero until he bumped into Wilton at Namm, was known as a drummer and not a singer but could do a good Tate impersonation. He doesnt do a thing for me, I hate his stage presence even more than his voice . I simply dont see any of what you see at all and thats fine its all subjective, some here are very down on Tate at age 62 and after 40 years of touring . I give Todd credit for taking over QR and taking control of the band even as an employee that Im impressed by !! LOL
Well for starters, you not being a fan of his voice doesn't mean you can't at least respect what he does, because I'm not necessarily trying to get you to like The Verdict or Todd era Queensryche. You also have your history wrong because he was the lead singer of Crimson Glory for a few years before switching to QR. That's not exactly a minor gig, particularly for someone familiar with the US power metal scene of the 80s. He's also ludicrously dedicated to his craft. The drum parts on his solo album and The Verdict don't exactly sound easy to play, yet he manages to do both that and a highly impressive vocal performance (again, regardless of tastes, it's undeniable that the man has a vast range and a ton of power). Quotes like this really show the kind of creative energy he has: "Wilton sent him four demos via email, and although he expected to get something back from La Torre in about 4 weeks, La Torre sent back the first demo with lyrics and a melody after only three days". I think it's fair to say that he's established himself as a legitimate member of the band, not just an employee, regardless of whether that's liked by everyone.
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I know this sounds really wild but I am super curious what Scottyryche will be, I dont think it will sound like old original QR, I just want to know what madness hes up to !!
I'm not, and for a couple of reasons.
First off, it seems like he is doing this solely for attention, leverage, or some other reason that has nothing to do with producing "Queensryche" music. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the product. And aside from the actual product, I find it incredibly offputting.
Second, and more importantly, I haven't cared for anything I have heard Scott do outside of Queensryche. Granted, I only have heard his stuff with Paul Speer and Slave To the Susan System. But while I respect the effort and the creativity, I didn't find the music itself to be very good.
Now, maybe I'm being a bit premature, and he can come up with something magical with the right writing partner. Despite #1, I will give it a listen. But given point #1, he has a pretty high hurdle to clear for me before I would actually buy it. And given point #2, his track record outside of QR gives me no reason to believe he can come close to clearing that hurdle.
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I know this sounds really wild but I am super curious what Scottyryche will be, I dont think it will sound like old original QR, I just want to know what madness hes up to !!
I'm not, and for a couple of reasons.
First off, it seems like he is doing this solely for attention, leverage, or some other reason that has nothing to do with producing "Queensryche" music. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the product. And aside from the actual product, I find it incredibly offputting.
Second, and more importantly, I haven't cared for anything I have heard Scott do outside of Queensryche. Granted, I only have heard his stuff with Paul Speer and Slave To the Susan System. But while I respect the effort and the creativity, I didn't find the music itself to be very good.
Now, maybe I'm being a bit premature, and he can come up with something magical with the right writing partner. Despite #1, I will give it a listen. But given point #1, he has a pretty high hurdle to clear for me before I would actually buy it. And given point #2, his track record outside of QR gives me no reason to believe he can come close to clearing that hurdle.
Boss I think Scottyryche will be some sort of industrial stuff or not for me, but like Ive said for a few years now NONE of the music post Tribe by QR has been good to my ears. Ive enjoyed some of Tates stuff for sure , I enjoyed Reinventing the Future ( went back and listened to it and I still enjoyed it a good amount for sure) and some of those songs they do remind me of QR, but not all of Tates stuff has been for me, I do like about half of the Sweet Oblivion songs. ........so to my meandering point. I like the DRAMA of all of it more than really any of the output of music, thats why Im "excited " LOL
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The only Queensryche albums I listen to are Operation:Mind Crime, Empire and the last 3 they've done with Todd. I have no desire to ever hear any of the other albums in their catalog again. It's just a taste thing I guess.
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I dont like it,,, I find it annoying and a bore. Not a fan of his voice at all either, the guy was a zero until he bumped into Wilton at Namm, was known as a drummer and not a singer but could do a good Tate impersonation. He doesnt do a thing for me, I hate his stage presence even more than his voice . I simply dont see any of what you see at all and thats fine its all subjective, some here are very down on Tate at age 62 and after 40 years of touring . I give Todd credit for taking over QR and taking control of the band even as an employee that Im impressed by !! LOL
Well for starters, you not being a fan of his voice doesn't mean you can't at least respect what he does, because I'm not necessarily trying to get you to like The Verdict or Todd era Queensryche. You also have your history wrong because he was the lead singer of Crimson Glory for a few years before switching to QR. That's not exactly a minor gig, particularly for someone familiar with the US power metal scene of the 80s. He's also ludicrously dedicated to his craft. The drum parts on his solo album and The Verdict don't exactly sound easy to play, yet he manages to do both that and a highly impressive vocal performance (again, regardless of tastes, it's undeniable that the man has a vast range and a ton of power). Quotes like this really show the kind of creative energy he has: "Wilton sent him four demos via email, and although he expected to get something back from La Torre in about 4 weeks, La Torre sent back the first demo with lyrics and a melody after only three days". I think it's fair to say that he's established himself as a legitimate member of the band, not just an employee, regardless of whether that's liked by everyone.
he was in CG for a minute again playing fill in "imposter" to a great singer who sadly passed away CG was far from a big band here in the USA... I really have no love for the guy and Im not here to wax about his skill, if he was in Tates league at age 20 hed be a star he was a replacement at best at age 40, If you like him that super duper and enjoy, I dont like really anyone thats left in QR as its formed today. I dont see them as a super talented group just a band living off the old name QR. I dont think Wilton is very good and Jackson who really cares , the true core is long gone with Chris, Geoff and now Scott all gone, its wild the band is really now Todd and Parker and to me I have no interest, Ive listened to all their stuff and none of it feels like QR to me none of it is timeless and none of it hits any meaning inside me, Im not a fan of any of them as they are constructed today. I dont even like Caseys drumming .... so its a wrap for me as far as the music , I follow them for DRAMA and as Ive said many times I think their music would best suited to be under another name other than QR which at this point IMO they no longer sound or feel like, Its silly that they want to be all METAL now it feels odd and desperate even, its going backwards to me, Tate is at least aging well and to me that was part of the QR evolution that was the human experience in music, most of us older fans really were ok with that and it felt real , Im happy Tate is taking that path as it feel correct to me even if I dont like some of his music hes making.
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The only Queensryche albums I listen to are Operation:Mind Crime, Empire and the last 3 they've done with Todd. I have no desire to ever hear any of the other albums in their catalog again. It's just a taste thing I guess.
Tribe? my fine nasal hair.....
I have really enjoyed rediscovering Tribe during covid it felt like the mood of the nation again
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its funny many of us older QR fans think their unplugged session on MTV was beyond stellar and maybe their best performance in some ways,,, does anyone think Todd and the band can do that today? anything even close? I dont think Todd can perform at all in an acoustic setting nor the band today.. Tate was still can with no net to catch him can still pull it off, not like he did at age 40 but can still do it right now. and for that I think hes really something special, I know hes lost a step but still at age 62?
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Yeah, I've tried many times to like those other albums but they just don't do anything for me. I don't really care for Rage For Order much either.
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I also remember Tribe being uneven as hell, being very much a half-in, half-out album. Feels simultaneously like an iteration on Q2K as well as a development on HitNF.
he was in CG for a minute again playing fill in "imposter" to a great singer who sadly passed away CG was far from a big band here in the USA... I really have no love for the guy and Im not here to wax about his skill, if he was in Tates league at age 20 hed be a star he was a replacement at best at age 40, If you like him that super duper and enjoy, I dont like really anyone thats left in QR as its formed today. I dont see them as a super talented group just a band living off the old name QR. I dont think Wilton is very good and Jackson who really cares , the true core is long gone with Chris, Geoff and now Scott all gone, its wild the band is really now Todd and Parker and to me I have no interest, Ive listened to all their stuff and none of it feels like QR to me none of it is timeless and none of it hits any meaning inside me, Im not a fan of any of them as they are constructed today. I dont even like Caseys drumming .... so its a wrap for me as far as the music , I follow them for DRAMA and as Ive said many times I think their music would best suited to be under another name other than QR which at this point IMO they no longer sound or feel like, Its silly that they want to be all METAL now it feels odd and desperate even, its going backwards to me, Tate is at least aging well and to me that was part of the QR evolution that was the human experience in music, us older fans really were ok with that and it felt real , Im happy Tate is taking that path as it feel correct to me
Imposter is honestly kind of a childish way to put it. He never claimed to be Midnight himself and just because CG didn't sell millions, doesn't mean they aren't an important part of the history of 80s metal. I do wonder what exactly he was supposed to do here. Is being the frontman of a cult classic US power metal band (who were also planning to write an album with him doing vocals) for three years not enough to join Queensryche (a band that, prior to Todd's entrance, had just released their most despised album thanks to Tate's ill advised direction and pretty much had nothing to lose, so weren't exactly at the top of the world either)? It's easy to see how the 2013 self titled album was viewed like such a redemption in the wake of such an PR disaster for the band. The fact that you have no love for him is apparent but again, you can't deny that he's worked hard to get to where he is. This isn't about whether either of us like him or not, but merely about acknowledging his efforts, regardless of whether they're to our tastes.
Wilton was also the foundational member of the band when the band initially started, being in before either Tate or DeGarmo. Those two may have asserted more influnece on balance afterwards, but on the EP, both Wilton and DeGarmo have equal music credits and on the Warning, Wilton has more with 6 against DeGarmo's 5. However, you saying that it's silly that they want to be metal now kind of tells all here. That's fine if you prefer Queensryche's more understated approach, but I myself am also a fan of that harder edged angle of Todd era Queensryche (not necessarily prefer, but I don't have a firm preference either way honestly, at least stylistically) and I think that's the case with a lot of people who've followed them (including many older fans from what I gather, so I don't think you can necessarily speak for that group of people). It's a valid approach and I don't think there's anything inherently silly about moving to a more explicitly metal sound.
I also really question the idea that it's somehow a desperate move because the most likely situation is that the current members of Queensryche are simply fans of heavier music than was the case with Geoff Tate and Chris DeGarmo. I don't think it's desperate to commit to a style that one likes. Queensryche seem to have just as much clout (if not more, arguably) in the glam metal / hard rock sphere built up with an album like Empire as they do in the trad metal / US power metal scene so if anything, the former would've arguably been the obvious, perhaps desperate move to restore fame. I also don't think it's going backwards because it's still a new direction for them. Prior to 2013, they've never done anything as consistently heavy and metallic as Todd era Queensryche. Is it innovative? I couldn't really care less because it's not really like they have anything to prove in that regard. It's harder and harder to innovate musically anyway these days, particularly if the root of your sound is still in the 80s to some degree. I think it'd be arguable that if they went djent or something, that it'd be even more difficult to draw a line between classic Queensryche and Todd era and if they copied their old sound verbatim, then they truly would be going backwards. It's one of those cases where they can never fully win if you judge them on the basis of both doing something innovative and wanting them to still have the spirit of the classics.
its funny many of us older QR fans think their unplugged session on MTV was beyond stellar and maybe their best performance in some ways,,, does anyone think Todd and the band can do that today? anything even close? I dont think Todd can perform at all in an acoustic setting nor the band today.. Tate was still can with no net to catch him can still pull it off, not like he did at age 40 but can still do it right now. and for that I think hes really something special, I know hes lost a step but still at age 62?
MTV Unplugged... isn't a thing anymore, though? If they did do something like that with the current lineup, I'm sure I'd probably like it. After all, I like Todd's performances on stuff like Open Road (and this seems pretty good to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWlgLp1L82Y but I'm sure you'll hate it due to it featuring Todd). I'm not really sure what point this is trying to prove?
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^Yeah, I agree with most of that. My main quibble would be with the metal sound being new for them. Yes, they had an experimental element in their early days. But they were also "heavy," at least for the era that the EP through Mindcrime were written in. I would say the three Todd albums fall into today's conception of "heavy" to a similar degree that those earlier albums did back then.
It's interesting now to look back on the post-DeGarmo albums with a different perspective than I had back then.
When Q2K came out, I liked it. I didn't love it, but despite being different, I gave it a chance. Ultimately, only a handful of the songs have any staying power. Liquid Sky and Right Side are pretty good--not great, but I still like them. Breakdown is also good, and I gained an appreciation for Burning Man seeing it live at the Live Evolution show (day 2). None of those are compelling reasons to pull the album off the shelf on any but the rarest of occasions. But they aren't bad. Nothing else on the album, or the tracks that didn't make it, interests me. But it was clear they were going through an extreme transition and trying to find themselves. I don't like the album. But I don't hold it against them for where they were.
Tribe is...interesting. At the time, I really felt like it was a return to form. The dark vibe and the heaviness drew me in. And it also spawned the DT/QR/FW tour, which was a dream come true for me. But it is a VERY inconsistent album for me. In retrospect, about 1/3 of the songs are great, about 1/3 are decent, and the other 1/3 are some of the worst of their career. Because of that inconsistency, it just has no staying power.
Mindcrime II has serious problems, despite being arguably better overall than its two predecessors. My initial reaction before digesting it was really positive. They did a lot of things right. Slater captured some signature QR elements. There was just enough musical connective tissue to the original that it felt rewarding to listen to. The story seemed interesting and compelling. But the thing about an album like that is that it takes time to really digest and figure out. And that is something that usually provide a big payoff during the classic era of Queensryche. With Mindcrime II, it actually led to a huge letdown. The more I dug into it, the more I disliked the album and became frustrated and disillusioned with it. At the end of the day, the story was incredibly disappointing, and the drama felt far overdone and overshadowed how weak the story was. And the music itself wasn't as consistent as it needed to be. There are some outstanding tracks, especially on the frontside of the album. Some of the experimentation they did was also very cool. But the downturn in both musical and story/lyrical content on the last 1/3 of the album really dragged it down.
I won't rate the covers album. I don't really find it meaningful to do that with covers albums. Overall, I didn't care for it, and some of the performances, especially Tate's, were lackluster if not downright bad. But I can respect the fact that they made a lot of unconventional choices. And it led to a really cool tour (I just wish I could give the contest another go when I could be healthy, because I know for a fact I could easily be in the top 3 for that finals spot to have sung on the next album). And a few of the songs (Neon Knights, Welcome to Machine, and Synchronicity II) were actually really cool.
American Soldier fared similarly with me as Mindcrime II. LOVED it when it first came out. But the more I listened, the more frustrated I became. The difference is, with this album, my frustration is aimed almost solely at Tate. This is an album that easily could have been great. Musically, it is pretty awesome. At most, the album has two duds (and I would probably say one on most days), and a resequencing of the album mostly kind of cures the impact of one of them. But the vocals are a disaster and ruin a lot of the songs. This could have been one of my favorite QR albums. And the fact that it isn't is due to things that could have been avoided, which is incredibly frustrating. And it is symptomatic of what was going wrong with the band during this entire era. More and more, one person and one person only was in charge. And that person was losing capability to steer the band in a direction that was satisfying or interesting. Geoff's vocals were deteriorating severely. And as that paralleled his taking control of the overall direction of the band, the direction of the band also deteriorated. And this is my long-winded way of saying that I am right there with a lot of fans that don't care for the post-CGD are of the band up to the point where they fired Tate and brought Todd in.
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^Yeah, I agree with most of that. My main quibble would be with the metal sound being new for them. Yes, they had an experimental element in their early days. But they were also "heavy," at least for the era that the EP through Mindcrime were written in. I would say the three Todd albums fall into today's conception of "heavy" to a similar degree that those earlier albums did back then.
Oh yeah I get that. I personally see adapting to the times as some form of novelty (after all, many bands of QR's age still stick to a version of their sound that can't exactly be called contemporary) so I still see them as novel to a certain degree but I understand how, in a relative sense, it could be considered on a similar wavelength relative to its surroundings.
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^Yeah, I agree with most of that. My main quibble would be with the metal sound being new for them. Yes, they had an experimental element in their early days. But they were also "heavy," at least for the era that the EP through Mindcrime were written in. I would say the three Todd albums fall into today's conception of "heavy" to a similar degree that those earlier albums did back then.
It's interesting now to look back on the post-DeGarmo albums with a different perspective than I had back then.
When Q2K came out, I liked it. I didn't love it, but despite being different, I gave it a chance. Ultimately, only a handful of the songs have any staying power. Liquid Sky and Right Side are pretty good--not great, but I still like them. Breakdown is also good, and I gained an appreciation for Burning Man seeing it live at the Live Evolution show (day 2). None of those are compelling reasons to pull the album off the shelf on any but the rarest of occasions. But they aren't bad. Nothing else on the album, or the tracks that didn't make it, interests me. But it was clear they were going through an extreme transition and trying to find themselves. I don't like the album. But I don't hold it against them for where they were.
Tribe is...interesting. At the time, I really felt like it was a return to form. The dark vibe and the heaviness drew me in. And it also spawned the DT/QR/FW tour, which was a dream come true for me. But it is a VERY inconsistent album for me. In retrospect, about 1/3 of the songs are great, about 1/3 are decent, and the other 1/3 are some of the worst of their career. Because of that inconsistency, it just has no staying power.
Mindcrime II has serious problems, despite being arguably better overall than its two predecessors. My initial reaction before digesting it was really positive. They did a lot of things right. Slater captured some signature QR elements. There was just enough musical connective tissue to the original that it felt rewarding to listen to. The story seemed interesting and compelling. But the thing about an album like that is that it takes time to really digest and figure out. And that is something that usually provide a big payoff during the classic era of Queensryche. With Mindcrime II, it actually led to a huge letdown. The more I dug into it, the more I disliked the album and became frustrated and disillusioned with it. At the end of the day, the story was incredibly disappointing, and the drama felt far overdone and overshadowed how weak the story was. And the music itself wasn't as consistent as it needed to be. There are some outstanding tracks, especially on the frontside of the album. Some of the experimentation they did was also very cool. But the downturn in both musical and story/lyrical content on the last 1/3 of the album really dragged it down.
I won't rate the covers album. I don't really find it meaningful to do that with covers albums. Overall, I didn't care for it, and some of the performances, especially Tate's, were lackluster if not downright bad. But I can respect the fact that they made a lot of unconventional choices. And it led to a really cool tour (I just wish I could give the contest another go when I could be healthy, because I know for a fact I could easily be in the top 3 for that finals spot to have sung on the next album). And a few of the songs (Neon Knights, Welcome to Machine, and Synchronicity II) were actually really cool.
American Soldier fared similarly with me as Mindcrime II. LOVED it when it first came out. But the more I listened, the more frustrated I became. The difference is, with this album, my frustration is aimed almost solely at Tate. This is an album that easily could have been great. Musically, it is pretty awesome. At most, the album has two duds (and I would probably say one on most days), and a resequencing of the album mostly kind of cures the impact of one of them. But the vocals are a disaster and ruin a lot of the songs. This could have been one of my favorite QR albums. And the fact that it isn't is due to things that could have been avoided, which is incredibly frustrating. And it is symptomatic of what was going wrong with the band during this entire era. More and more, one person and one person only was in charge. And that person was losing capability to steer the band in a direction that was satisfying or interesting. Geoff's vocals were deteriorating severely. And as that paralleled his taking control of the overall direction of the band, the direction of the band also deteriorated. And this is my long-winded way of saying that I am right there with a lot of fans that don't care for the post-CGD are of the band up to the point where they fired Tate and brought Todd in.
I had the same reaction to those albums. I think it was because I really kind of desperately wanted to like them. I've always thought that Queensryche was one of those bands that never quite managed to fully live up to its massive potential. The peaked with Operation Mindcrime. There have been some flashes of brilliance since then, especially on Empire, but Queensryche always struck me as a band that was defined by missed opportunity after missed opportunity, all exacerbated by the antics of their massively egotistical lead vocalist whose huge ego was a complete mismatch to his rapidly declining capabilities, especially in the last two or three years he was with them.
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I also remember Tribe being uneven as hell, being very much a half-in, half-out album. Feels simultaneously like an iteration on Q2K as well as a development on HitNF.
he was in CG for a minute again playing fill in "imposter" to a great singer who sadly passed away CG was far from a big band here in the USA... I really have no love for the guy and Im not here to wax about his skill, if he was in Tates league at age 20 hed be a star he was a replacement at best at age 40, If you like him that super duper and enjoy, I dont like really anyone thats left in QR as its formed today. I dont see them as a super talented group just a band living off the old name QR. I dont think Wilton is very good and Jackson who really cares , the true core is long gone with Chris, Geoff and now Scott all gone, its wild the band is really now Todd and Parker and to me I have no interest, Ive listened to all their stuff and none of it feels like QR to me none of it is timeless and none of it hits any meaning inside me, Im not a fan of any of them as they are constructed today. I dont even like Caseys drumming .... so its a wrap for me as far as the music , I follow them for DRAMA and as Ive said many times I think their music would best suited to be under another name other than QR which at this point IMO they no longer sound or feel like, Its silly that they want to be all METAL now it feels odd and desperate even, its going backwards to me, Tate is at least aging well and to me that was part of the QR evolution that was the human experience in music, us older fans really were ok with that and it felt real , Im happy Tate is taking that path as it feel correct to me
Imposter is honestly kind of a childish way to put it. He never claimed to be Midnight himself and just because CG didn't sell millions, doesn't mean they aren't an important part of the history of 80s metal. I do wonder what exactly he was supposed to do here. Is being the frontman of a cult classic US power metal band (who were also planning to write an album with him doing vocals) for three years not enough to join Queensryche (a band that, prior to Todd's entrance, had just released their most despised album thanks to Tate's ill advised direction and pretty much had nothing to lose, so weren't exactly at the top of the world either)? It's easy to see how the 2013 self titled album was viewed like such a redemption in the wake of such an PR disaster for the band. The fact that you have no love for him is apparent but again, you can't deny that he's worked hard to get to where he is. This isn't about whether either of us like him or not, but merely about acknowledging his efforts, regardless of whether they're to our tastes.
Wilton was also the foundational member of the band when the band initially started, being in before either Tate or DeGarmo. Those two may have asserted more influnece on balance afterwards, but on the EP, both Wilton and DeGarmo have equal music credits and on the Warning, Wilton has more with 6 against DeGarmo's 5. However, you saying that it's silly that they want to be metal now kind of tells all here. That's fine if you prefer Queensryche's more understated approach, but I myself am also a fan of that harder edged angle of Todd era Queensryche (not necessarily prefer, but I don't have a firm preference either way honestly, at least stylistically) and I think that's the case with a lot of people who've followed them (including many older fans from what I gather, so I don't think you can necessarily speak for that group of people). It's a valid approach and I don't think there's anything inherently silly about moving to a more explicitly metal sound.
I also really question the idea that it's somehow a desperate move because the most likely situation is that the current members of Queensryche are simply fans of heavier music than was the case with Geoff Tate and Chris DeGarmo. I don't think it's desperate to commit to a style that one likes. Queensryche seem to have just as much clout (if not more, arguably) in the glam metal / hard rock sphere built up with an album like Empire as they do in the trad metal / US power metal scene so if anything, the former would've arguably been the obvious, perhaps desperate move to restore fame. I also don't think it's going backwards because it's still a new direction for them. Prior to 2013, they've never done anything as consistently heavy and metallic as Todd era Queensryche. Is it innovative? I couldn't really care less because it's not really like they have anything to prove in that regard. It's harder and harder to innovate musically anyway these days, particularly if the root of your sound is still in the 80s to some degree. I think it'd be arguable that if they went djent or something, that it'd be even more difficult to draw a line between classic Queensryche and Todd era and if they copied their old sound verbatim, then they truly would be going backwards. It's one of those cases where they can never fully win if you judge them on the basis of both doing something innovative and wanting them to still have the spirit of the classics.
its funny many of us older QR fans think their unplugged session on MTV was beyond stellar and maybe their best performance in some ways,,, does anyone think Todd and the band can do that today? anything even close? I dont think Todd can perform at all in an acoustic setting nor the band today.. Tate was still can with no net to catch him can still pull it off, not like he did at age 40 but can still do it right now. and for that I think hes really something special, I know hes lost a step but still at age 62?
MTV Unplugged... isn't a thing anymore, though? If they did do something like that with the current lineup, I'm sure I'd probably like it. After all, I like Todd's performances on stuff like Open Road (and this seems pretty good to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWlgLp1L82Y but I'm sure you'll hate it due to it featuring Todd). I'm not really sure what point this is trying to prove?
My simple point is if Todd was this massively talented singer he would have formed a band and would have become known and signed at say age 20.... Like Tate was. Tate formed Myth and was found and QR was signed on his talent, Tate was gonna be star period with or without QR and his voice was his gift. I agree its not fair to compare but in this arena comparing is the discussion, does anyone know of any early teen years 20 or 30s Latorre bands and his output that shows me Im missing something here?
my other point is QRs whole hallmark was "evolution" mans growth the human experience, to me to just try to "recapture" their 20s again with METAL to me feels desperate, like a mid life crisis... Not what the band was about ,I think Chris would agree as his evolving in HITNF and then to out of the band to become a good husband and father to me is more QR as he walked the walk. whatever Todssryche is I think its would be better served unshackled from the QR name it was supposed to Rising West and one off deal etc
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^Yeah, I agree with most of that. My main quibble would be with the metal sound being new for them. Yes, they had an experimental element in their early days. But they were also "heavy," at least for the era that the EP through Mindcrime were written in. I would say the three Todd albums fall into today's conception of "heavy" to a similar degree that those earlier albums did back then.
It's interesting now to look back on the post-DeGarmo albums with a different perspective than I had back then.
When Q2K came out, I liked it. I didn't love it, but despite being different, I gave it a chance. Ultimately, only a handful of the songs have any staying power. Liquid Sky and Right Side are pretty good--not great, but I still like them. Breakdown is also good, and I gained an appreciation for Burning Man seeing it live at the Live Evolution show (day 2). None of those are compelling reasons to pull the album off the shelf on any but the rarest of occasions. But they aren't bad. Nothing else on the album, or the tracks that didn't make it, interests me. But it was clear they were going through an extreme transition and trying to find themselves. I don't like the album. But I don't hold it against them for where they were.
Tribe is...interesting. At the time, I really felt like it was a return to form. The dark vibe and the heaviness drew me in. And it also spawned the DT/QR/FW tour, which was a dream come true for me. But it is a VERY inconsistent album for me. In retrospect, about 1/3 of the songs are great, about 1/3 are decent, and the other 1/3 are some of the worst of their career. Because of that inconsistency, it just has no staying power.
Mindcrime II has serious problems, despite being arguably better overall than its two predecessors. My initial reaction before digesting it was really positive. They did a lot of things right. Slater captured some signature QR elements. There was just enough musical connective tissue to the original that it felt rewarding to listen to. The story seemed interesting and compelling. But the thing about an album like that is that it takes time to really digest and figure out. And that is something that usually provide a big payoff during the classic era of Queensryche. With Mindcrime II, it actually led to a huge letdown. The more I dug into it, the more I disliked the album and became frustrated and disillusioned with it. At the end of the day, the story was incredibly disappointing, and the drama felt far overdone and overshadowed how weak the story was. And the music itself wasn't as consistent as it needed to be. There are some outstanding tracks, especially on the frontside of the album. Some of the experimentation they did was also very cool. But the downturn in both musical and story/lyrical content on the last 1/3 of the album really dragged it down.
I won't rate the covers album. I don't really find it meaningful to do that with covers albums. Overall, I didn't care for it, and some of the performances, especially Tate's, were lackluster if not downright bad. But I can respect the fact that they made a lot of unconventional choices. And it led to a really cool tour (I just wish I could give the contest another go when I could be healthy, because I know for a fact I could easily be in the top 3 for that finals spot to have sung on the next album). And a few of the songs (Neon Knights, Welcome to Machine, and Synchronicity II) were actually really cool.
American Soldier fared similarly with me as Mindcrime II. LOVED it when it first came out. But the more I listened, the more frustrated I became. The difference is, with this album, my frustration is aimed almost solely at Tate. This is an album that easily could have been great. Musically, it is pretty awesome. At most, the album has two duds (and I would probably say one on most days), and a resequencing of the album mostly kind of cures the impact of one of them. But the vocals are a disaster and ruin a lot of the songs. This could have been one of my favorite QR albums. And the fact that it isn't is due to things that could have been avoided, which is incredibly frustrating. And it is symptomatic of what was going wrong with the band during this entire era. More and more, one person and one person only was in charge. And that person was losing capability to steer the band in a direction that was satisfying or interesting. Geoff's vocals were deteriorating severely. And as that paralleled his taking control of the overall direction of the band, the direction of the band also deteriorated. And this is my long-winded way of saying that I am right there with a lot of fans that don't care for the post-CGD are of the band up to the point where they fired Tate and brought Todd in.
I dont disagree with most of that Boss Id only add Tate was not fired over artistic difference or his voice...he was fired over an emotional brawl between the wives and his daughter that Scott became too involved in. Its kinda funny now that we see Scott again acting erratic and now divorced from said wife and he as made up with Geoff. The albums were a simple vehicle to be used to conceptually tour on as thats where they made their money and they made good money touring unlike both entities today. I didnt love AS that much. I loved the idea of it... again its not like Tate was surrounded with much help and as we see Todd is now doing the majority of the work and to me thats part of why to me IMO it doesnt sound or feel like what I call QR. This band is #1 at DRAMA LOL
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My simple point is if Todd was this massively talented singer he would have formed a band and would have become known and signed at say age 20.... Like Tate was.
??? No, that doesn't follow at all. There are TONS of talented singers and musicians who don't get signed at age 20, for LOTS of different reasons. Sometimes, they just have bad luck and don't get discovered. Sometimes, they aren't interested in being in a band. Lots of different reasons. That's just not a good argument at all.
I dont disagree with most of that Boss Id only add Tate was not fired over artistic difference or his voice...he was fired over an emotional brawl between the wives and his daughter that Scott became too involved in.
I have a couple of problems with that.
Yes, he was fired, in part, over a "brawl." But I don't understand your characterization of it. It was a literal brawl where he physically attacked two of his bandmates.
Second, let's keep in mind the whole picture. He was fired, primarily, for two things: (1) the band discovered that he and his family were mismanaging the band's money, and attempting to steal from the rest of the band, including selling the rights to Mindcrime without their knowledge and consent, and (2) for the above-mentioned physical assault. He wasn't technically fired over "creative differences." But they couldn't easily fire him over creative differences. There really isn't any dispute that pretty severe creative differences existed for quite some time, and the rest of the band were not happy with the band's direction.
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Tate formed Myth and was found and QR was signed on his talent, Tate was gonna be star period with or without QR and his voice was his gift.
Please :lol Tate was going no where in either Babylon or Myth. As soon as Queensr˙che's demo (EP - with their songs) started getting attention, Tate jumped ship.
His solo stuff clearly shows that he can't write interesting vocal melodies to save his life. Queensr˙che's early success was the sum of its parts. Not just Tate entering the stage with a great voice.
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Hi Boss,
My point is before age 40 Todd was only a fill in for Midnight and now Tate. He had no career and if he was this massive talent he could be found,,, he found Wilton. Labels are always looking for talent. just odd that all I can find on him is him doing covers, my point is more about Tate .
I never bought off on the BS that "Tate was trying to steal and sell OMC and run away with the cash" thats just ludicrous and impossible. Those deals take lots of legal money, time and the whole band including Chris would hve to sign off on it...Tate also never pulled a knife on Wilton as was rumored ,,,LOL
When Scott fired Tates daughter and his wife with the other 2 supporting it to appease Scotts wife that he now divorced ( cant make it up wild ) Id be livid too,,,, It was so petty it was over the selling of the merch and fan club revenue and salaries. Tate was taunted and fired before he got physical , the brawl was Tates reaction to it and I have to say Im not upset by his actions in defense of his wife and daughter, it didnt help that Parker had been slagging his daughter post divorce,
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Tate formed Myth and was found and QR was signed on his talent, Tate was gonna be star period with or without QR and his voice was his gift.
Please :lol Tate was going no where in either Babylon or Myth. As soon as Queensr˙che's demo (EP - with their songs) started getting attention, Tate jumped ship.
His solo stuff clearly shows that he can't write interesting vocal melodies to save his life. Queensr˙che's early success was the sum of its parts. Not just Tate entering the stage with a great voice.
Tate was going to be a star.. it was not the music on the EP that was wowing anyone it was Tates voice. Tate is the only star in QR in reality. If Tate "didnt as you say jump ship" theyd not have been signed
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Regarding Mindcrime, you can believe what you like, but the facts are documented, and there isn't any evidence refuting them. So your disbelief isn't really based on anything other than your feelings.
As far as the wives, that is a very...let's just say "interesting" interpretation of the facts that, likewise, isn't really supported by any of the evidence in the record.
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Yeah I second what Bosk said. The arbitrary idea that Todd has to be straight in with his own major label band in his 20s is ludicrous and feels like a deliberately placed hurdle to try and measure the two up. The fact is, Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield liked his voice enough to want to make music with him. Isn't that basically... the exact same thing that happened with Geoff Tate? I personally couldn't care less also whether Todd era is considered legitimate, because it's not really any less so than any of the rest of the non-DeGarmo material. If anything, it marked a resurgeance in Wilton's songwriting credits and got Jackson and Rockenfield much more involved too.
As for the "to just try to "recapture" their 20s again with METAL to me feels desperate, like a mid life crisis..." quote, that's just kind of silly to me. Can people that are middle aged not honestly want to make heavy music without it being seen as a midlife crisis? The fact is, for most of the band's output after The Warning, Michael Wilton had a drastically reduced presence (NO credits on the last two Geoff albums) in the songwriting department. It's highly likely that Todd era Queensryche is simply a product of the tastes of the people writing it. Scanning the wiki page, Wilton is into bands like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Van Halen, while Torre is into Testament, Dio and Pantera. With that in mind, is it really a surprise that the last 3 QR albums have turned out the way they did, with those influences in mind? It feels like the opposite of desperate, because they could've easily done away with stuff like the abrasive breakdown at the end of Guardian for fear of rustling the feathers of people who may have wanted QR to do re-runs of Empire.
The feeling I get from those albums is relief. They were no longer beholden to Geoff's poor leadership and free to make music that they actually seemed to want to make. Given that founding members of the band were essentially reduced to session musicians, Geoff's firing really was inevitable. It's fair to say that the fan reception has vindicated their decision, given the widespread praise for these albums and the disparity between the reception of them and pretty much anything Geoff has been on in the last few decades (other than maybe Sweet Oblivion) speaks for itself.
If you don't like it... that's okay, but it's needless to denigrate a move that seems to have come fairly naturally for the band as desperate simply because it doesn't meet your tastes.
Tate was going to be a star.. it was not the music on the EP that was wowing anyone it was Tates voice. Tate is the only star in QR in reality. If Tate "didnt as you say jump ship" theyd not have been signed
Except without quality songs, even phenomenal vocalists would struggle to gain any sort of traction. Tate was great, for sure. However, he needed a band behind him to actually serve his voice. QR is not Geoff's vehicle alone, it's a band.
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Regarding Mindcrime, you can believe what you like, but the facts are documented, and there isn't any evidence refuting them. So your disbelief isn't really based on anything other than your feelings.
As far as the wives, that is a very...let's just say "interesting" interpretation of the facts that, likewise, isn't really supported by any of the evidence in the record.
On the record is what was to be used in a legal proceeding..: ) I agree its all interesting
If you have access to those docs Id be glad to take look and comment I believe they were available a while back, but as we know the truth and what a lawyer can make the truth are not always the same truth..
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Yeah I second what Bosk said. The arbitrary idea that Todd has to be straight in with his own major label band in his 20s is ludicrous and feels like a deliberately placed hurdle to try and measure the two up. The fact is, Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield liked his voice enough to want to make music with him. Isn't that basically... the exact same thing that happened with Geoff Tate? I personally couldn't care less also whether Todd era is considered legitimate, because it's not really any less so than any of the rest of the non-DeGarmo material. If anything, it marked a resurgeance in Wilton's songwriting credits and got Jackson and Rockenfield much more involved too.
As for the "to just try to "recapture" their 20s again with METAL to me feels desperate, like a mid life crisis..." quote, that's just kind of silly to me. Can people that are middle aged not honestly want to make heavy music without it being seen as a midlife crisis? The fact is, for most of the band's output after The Warning, Michael Wilton had a drastically reduced presence (NO credits on the last two Geoff albums) in the songwriting department. It's highly likely that Todd era Queensryche is simply a product of the tastes of the people writing it. Scanning the wiki page, Wilton is into bands like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Van Halen, while Torre is into Testament, Dio and Pantera. With that in mind, is it really a surprise that the last 3 QR albums have turned out the way they did, with those influences in mind? It feels like the opposite of desperate, because they could've easily done away with stuff like the abrasive breakdown at the end of Guardian for fear of rustling the feathers of people who may have wanted QR to do re-runs of Empire.
The feeling I get from those albums is relief. They were no longer beholden to Geoff's poor leadership and free to make music that they actually seemed to want to make. Given that founding members of the band were essentially reduced to session musicians, Geoff's firing really was inevitable. It's fair to say that the fan reception has vindicated their decision, given the widespread praise for these albums and the disparity between the reception of them and pretty much anything Geoff has been on in the last few decades (other than maybe Sweet Oblivion) speaks for itself.
If you don't like it... that's okay, but it's needless to denigrate a move that seems to have come fairly naturally for the band as desperate simply because it doesn't meet your tastes.
Tate was going to be a star.. it was not the music on the EP that was wowing anyone it was Tates voice. Tate is the only star in QR in reality. If Tate "didnt as you say jump ship" theyd not have been signed
Except without quality songs, even phenomenal vocalists would struggle to gain any sort of traction. Tate was great, for sure. However, he needed a band behind him to actually serve his voice. QR is not Geoff's vehicle alone, it's a band.
I repeat,,, Tate was found and was going to be a star. again The Mob which became QR when Tate joined would not have been signed without Tate. these are teenagers and teenage bands thats my point,,, they all had songs it was Tates voice that was the sell.... to think otherwise is to me silly its like saying Malmsteen wasnt the star in any band he was in at the time. it wasnt Keel or Bonnet or even JSS that was the reason we went to see Malmsteen. In 1983 QR came on stage and we had barely any knowledge of them but " the singer was supposed to be amazing" we stood there and it was ONLY Tate we saw not even Chris... Tate voice was mind blowing the other guys nobody spoke about , backstage Tate was the only one that anyone wanted to meet or talk with. thats reality
Same with Malmsteen, the rest of his amazing band might as well have been cut outs backstage in 82 83, This pretty normal as usually one guy is the star... sometimes its 2 guys.. unless youre the beatles LOL
you claim the band and or LOL founding members ( which includes Geoff ) were unhappy with being beholden to Geoffs leadership. seems Scott is not happy with their direction now again either so whos the leader now? Id say not one of the founding members as you call them. This is why I want the name QR to be shelved. I agree that when Geoff joined The Mob and it became QR there was magic but id also argue that the band needed Geoff more than Geoff needed them. Id also argue without Geoff QR would not ever be signed, and Geoff out of all them had the best chance to breakthrough... its a fun discussion
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Tate formed Myth and was found and QR was signed on his talent, Tate was gonna be star period with or without QR and his voice was his gift.
Please :lol Tate was going no where in either Babylon or Myth. As soon as Queensr˙che's demo (EP - with their songs) started getting attention, Tate jumped ship.
His solo stuff clearly shows that he can't write interesting vocal melodies to save his life. Queensr˙che's early success was the sum of its parts. Not just Tate entering the stage with a great voice.
'
The Mob was going NO PLACE without Tate much easier for a label to build a band like The Mob around Tate than for The Mob to find a mind altering singer like Tate. in the nonsense of teenager bands as far as I tell the only cough founding member of what became QR is actually Scott as his house was home base LOL Many bands were being created back then around a star
does anyone know who was the back up to Tate or who sung the EP songs before Tate ? : )
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Tate formed Myth and was found and QR was signed on his talent, Tate was gonna be star period with or without QR and his voice was his gift.
Please :lol Tate was going no where in either Babylon or Myth. As soon as Queensr˙che's demo (EP - with their songs) started getting attention, Tate jumped ship.
His solo stuff clearly shows that he can't write interesting vocal melodies to save his life. Queensr˙che's early success was the sum of its parts. Not just Tate entering the stage with a great voice.
are there any tapes of The Mob with another singer besides Tate? I cant imagine there is? is there? Its fun to think 5 guys 5 parts all parts equal :not all parts are equal though : ) do you think if Jackson left in 1985 anything post that would be different? not much different IMO Management and the Label would find a replacement in a week many bands had members come and go Ozzy had a new bass player yearly it felt like
I dont agree on Tates solo stuff his first solo cd was very very good and I like a lot of his post QR stuff...
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EPICVIEW, you have typed more words in the past two days than you have in the last ten years. :rollin
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And most of them wrong.
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EPICVIEW, you have typed more words in the past two days than you have in the last ten years. :rollin
I got inspired : )
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And most of them wrong.
a matter of perspective... at least I cut back on typos : )
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Tate was going to be a star.. it was not the music on the EP that was wowing anyone it was Tates voice. Tate is the only star in QR in reality. If Tate "didnt as you say jump ship" theyd not have been signed
Oh come off it. The world is full of immensely talented musicians who never made it because they never had the right vehicle for that talent, because they didn't have the songs and Myth quite patently didn't have the songs.
Tate needed QR. QR needed Tate.
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you claim the band and or LOL founding members ( which includes Geoff ) were unhappy with being beholden to Geoffs leadership. seems Scott is not happy with their direction now again either so whos the leader now? Id say not one of the founding members as you call them. This is why I want the name QR to be shelved. I agree that when Geoff joined The Mob and it became QR there was magic but id also argue that the band needed Geoff more than Geoff needed them. Id also argue without Geoff QR would not ever be signed, and Geoff out of all them had the best chance to breakthrough... its a fun discussion
I mean... it's true? Geoff is not a founding member of the band, they formed in 81 while he came in the following year. The original four were Wilton, Jackson, Rockenfield and DeGarmo. The proportion of original members is the same proportion as Dream Theater. It's not an identical situation, what with DeGarmo and Tate having more influence over the band's sound, but if you want this to be a purity test, then it has to be conceded that the band still has at least traces of its original form. Wilton said himself: "the last 3 years, basically it just came to a point that we didn't have a voice in the band anymore. It was all run by the singer and his manager, the wife." That's not the sign of a healthy band chemistry when founding members of the band feel like they don't have a say. In terms of creative output, it's hard to say who's the leader now because, judging from the credits, the process looks far more collaborative than it has been for a while. I think that's a better outcome than "All songs written by Jason Slater and Geoff Tate except where noted." You also can believe that QR would never get signed without Geoff all you want, but the fact is that Myth didn't get signed. It took a team to make it work.
I'll also repeat... you can't ignore that the critical and fan reception to the Todd era has been near-unanimously more positive than the decade prior. Even now with the Rockenfield drama, they're in a much better position in terms of public good will than they were in 2011 with Dedicated to Chaos, where I think it's fair to say that many fans had pretty much given up on the band.
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you claim the band and or LOL founding members ( which includes Geoff ) were unhappy with being beholden to Geoffs leadership. seems Scott is not happy with their direction now again either so whos the leader now? Id say not one of the founding members as you call them. This is why I want the name QR to be shelved. I agree that when Geoff joined The Mob and it became QR there was magic but id also argue that the band needed Geoff more than Geoff needed them. Id also argue without Geoff QR would not ever be signed, and Geoff out of all them had the best chance to breakthrough... its a fun discussion
I mean... it's true? Geoff is not a founding member of the band, they formed in 81 while he came in the following year. The original four were Wilton, Jackson, Rockenfield and DeGarmo. The proportion of original members is the same proportion as Dream Theater. It's not an identical situation, what with DeGarmo and Tate having more influence over the band's sound, but if you want this to be a purity test, then it has to be conceded that the band still has at least traces of its original form. Wilton said himself: "the last 3 years, basically it just came to a point that we didn't have a voice in the band anymore. It was all run by the singer and his manager, the wife." That's not the sign of a healthy band chemistry when founding members of the band feel like they don't have a say. In terms of creative output, it's hard to say who's the leader now because, judging from the credits, the process looks far more collaborative than it has been for a while. I think that's a better outcome than "All songs written by Jason Slater and Geoff Tate except where noted." You also can believe that QR would never get signed without Geoff all you want, but the fact is that Myth didn't get signed. It took a team to make it work.
I'll also repeat... you can't ignore that the critical and fan reception to the Todd era has been near-unanimously more positive than the decade prior. Even now with the Rockenfield drama, they're in a much better position in terms of public good will than they were in 2011 with Dedicated to Chaos, where I think it's fair to say that many fans had pretty much given up on the band.
the band with Tate was way more popular and really none of the fan base had left. the band drew very well as always touring with Tate. The perceived "online" fans are not the fan base in reality just a very small sample. again the band ( kids jamming ) in 81 was The Mob, one could argue Tate was not a founding member of this teenage band called the Mob. can you tell me who was the lead singer of the Mob was? can you tell me who the Founding Singer was of QR if not Tate? again we are talking teenagers "jamming out" nobody other than fun online talk doesn't think Tate is a founding member of QR
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Can you tell us which label Babylon or Myth feat. super star vocalist Geoff Tate were signed to?
We're waiting... :natalieportman:
It's getting a bit boring. Were you ever a Queensr˙che fan, or just a Geoff Tate fan? :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Can you tell us which label Babylon or Myth feat. super star vocalist Geoff Tate were signed to?
We're waiting... :natalieportman:
It's getting a bit boring. Were you ever a Queensr˙che fan, or just a Geoff Tate fan? :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
I agree this is a tad boring.. any metal label would have signed Tate and formed a band around him during the 80s once he was found. Im not sure about the others in QR. were you a fan of Malmsteen in 82 or a fan of the Rising Force Band as a total unit? a far more talented band in many ways to QR, 100% didnt even know a band was on stage with Malmsteen. Tates voice was the same immense talent . do you have any recordings of the Mob with any other singer than Tate? or QR with any other singer? Im curious to me when I saw them in 83 they were Accept sounding with a mind altering singer that carried them, everyone I was with felt that way. I remember thinking Scott was good but even Chris was just a decent guitarist that night, later we learned he was very important to song writing, but live nobody saw anything but Tates talent. To me Tate is 50% of the QR defining sound if not more . This is not Rush IMO were each guy was paramount to the sound and irreplaceable and each was a huge piece of the sound, we now have a band of 2 of lesser ingredients and some are still saying its QR...I think that proves that all are replaceble If Wilton leaves and a pro player comes in would the sound change? is QR really Jackson? can the whole band be replaced? LOL
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the band with Tate was way more popular and really none of the fan base had left. the band drew very well as always touring with Tate. The perceived "online" fans are not the fan base in reality just a very small sample. again the band ( kids jamming ) in 81 was The Mob, one could argue Tate was not a founding member of this teenage band called the Mob. can you tell me who was the lead singer of the Mob was? can you tell me who the Founding Singer was of QR if not Tate? again we are talking teenagers "jamming out" nobody other than fun online talk doesn't think Tate is a founding member of QR
Oh yeah? Queensryche's 2013 self titled sold 13,659 in its first week in the US while Frequency Unknown sold 5,500 and Dedicated to Chaos sold 8,210. That disparity is indisputible. Fans had come back... and they weren't coming for Tate. Believe it or not, Condition Human even topped that at 14,000 in a declining album sales market. The Verdict sold 8,100 but that's pretty impressive considering the general trend of falling sales and a four year gap. Sure, album sales of American Soldier and everything prior make those numbers look a bit less impressive but 2009 was also before streaming services became more commonplace (Spotify was only one year into its existence after all). If we count streaming and YouTube views then it's an absolute landslide improvement for the Todd era, where those albums are more successful than anything since Empire. Man the Machine has 1.2m listens on Spotify. Even the most listened to song on Promised Land (Bridge at 641k) and Hear in the Now Frontier (Sign of the Times at 429k) doesn't quite measure up. That's not insigificant, even if we take into account new release biases. You would have to really do a lot of mental gymnastics to claim that the band didn't redeem themselves at least to some degree in the public eye in the last 8 years, given all this.
I agree this is a tad boring.. any metal label would have signed Tate and formed a band around him during the 80s once he was found. Im not sure about the others in QR. were you a fan of Malmsteen in 82 or a fan of the Rising Force Band as a total unit? a far more talented band in many ways to QR, 100% didnt even know a band was on stage with Malmsteen.
Okay, this is hilarious in hindsight, given that Yngwie has fallen deep and deeper into irrelevance after relying on his own vocals to drive the songs rather than the performances of world class singers. His sales figures rose exponentially in the 80s when he started focusing on more song-oriented tracks, which goes to prove the point. If Queensryche weren't as tight as they were and didn't drive the songs along as effectively as they did, it would've fallen into irrelevance fast. There are a ton of bands with incredible vocalists that don't get clout because their songs were mediocre. Geoff Tate is important... but he's not the only draw. Queen of the Reich would be a damned fine metal song with slicing riffs and a restless youthful energy even if it was sung by a James Hetfield or a Dave Mustaine, in my opinion. Plus, if Todd didn't do what he did well, then I highly doubt we'd see things like that stark sales boost.
I remember thinking Scott was good but even Chris was just a decent guitarist that night, later we learned he was very important to song writing, but live nobody saw anything but Tates talent. To me Tate is 50% of the QR defining sound if not more . This is not Rush IMO were each guy was paramount to the sound and irreplaceable and each was a huge piece of the sound, we now have a band of 2 of lesser ingredients and some are still saying its QR...I think that proves that all are replaceble If Wilton leaves and a pro player comes in would the sound change? is QR really Jackson? can the whole band be replaced? LOL
Somehow, I feel like the concept of a band having a particular chemistry between multiple members has slipped you by. Just because the musical content of some members is more behind the scenes, it doesn't make them any less crucial. QR has very classy layered guitar parts, a rock solid and tight rhythmic foundation, incredibly paced solos and often very slick production values that allow something like Geoff's voice to shine in proper context. With so many bands, they can be more than the sum of their parts and I think this is the case here. I'm not sure why Wilton's presence is being understated either because that dude played a huge part in songs like Deliverance, Warning, Nightrider, I Dream in Infrared, Speak and Revolution Calling. If Wilton left in 83, we would've lost some absolute classics. This isn't some session musician, he was a crucial building block of the band's early material in a creative sense. If he left now, then I'm pretty sure the sound would drastically shift, because the chemistry would be heavily altered.
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the band with Tate was way more popular and really none of the fan base had left. the band drew very well as always touring with Tate. The perceived "online" fans are not the fan base in reality just a very small sample. again the band ( kids jamming ) in 81 was The Mob, one could argue Tate was not a founding member of this teenage band called the Mob. can you tell me who was the lead singer of the Mob was? can you tell me who the Founding Singer was of QR if not Tate? again we are talking teenagers "jamming out" nobody other than fun online talk doesn't think Tate is a founding member of QR
Oh yeah? Queensryche's 2013 self titled sold 13,659 in its first week in the US while Frequency Unknown sold 5,500 and Dedicated to Chaos sold 8,210. That disparity is indisputible. Fans had come back... and they weren't coming for Tate. Believe it or not, Condition Human even topped that at 14,000 in a declining album sales market. The Verdict sold 8,100 but that's pretty impressive considering the general trend of falling sales and a four year gap. Sure, album sales of American Soldier and everything prior make those numbers look a bit less impressive but 2009 was also before streaming services became more commonplace (Spotify was only one year into its existence after all). If we count streaming and YouTube views then it's an absolute landslide improvement for the Todd era, where those albums are more successful than anything since Empire. Man the Machine has 1.2m listens on Spotify. Even the most listened to song on Promised Land (Bridge at 641k) and Hear in the Now Frontier (Sign of the Times at 429k) doesn't quite measure up. That's not insigificant, even if we take into account new release biases. You would have to really do a lot of mental gymnastics to claim that the band didn't redeem themselves at least to some degree in the public eye in the last 8 years, given all this.
I agree this is a tad boring.. any metal label would have signed Tate and formed a band around him during the 80s once he was found. Im not sure about the others in QR. were you a fan of Malmsteen in 82 or a fan of the Rising Force Band as a total unit? a far more talented band in many ways to QR, 100% didnt even know a band was on stage with Malmsteen.
Okay, this is hilarious in hindsight, given that Yngwie has fallen deep and deeper into irrelevance after relying on his own vocals to drive the songs rather than the performances of world class singers. His sales figures rose exponentially in the 80s when he started focusing on more song-oriented tracks, which goes to prove the point. If Queensryche weren't as tight as they were and didn't drive the songs along as effectively as they did, it would've fallen into irrelevance fast. There are a ton of bands with incredible vocalists that don't get clout because their songs were mediocre. Geoff Tate is important... but he's not the only draw. Queen of the Reich would be a damned fine metal song with slicing riffs and a restless youthful energy even if it was sung by a James Hetfield or a Dave Mustaine, in my opinion. Plus, if Todd didn't do what he did well, then I highly doubt we'd see things like that stark sales boost.
I remember thinking Scott was good but even Chris was just a decent guitarist that night, later we learned he was very important to song writing, but live nobody saw anything but Tates talent. To me Tate is 50% of the QR defining sound if not more . This is not Rush IMO were each guy was paramount to the sound and irreplaceable and each was a huge piece of the sound, we now have a band of 2 of lesser ingredients and some are still saying its QR...I think that proves that all are replaceble If Wilton leaves and a pro player comes in would the sound change? is QR really Jackson? can the whole band be replaced? LOL
Somehow, I feel like the concept of a band having a particular chemistry between multiple members has slipped you by. Just because the musical content of some members is more behind the scenes, it doesn't make them any less crucial. QR has very classy layered guitar parts, a rock solid and tight rhythmic foundation, incredibly paced solos and often very slick production values that allow something like Geoff's voice to shine in proper context. With so many bands, they can be more than the sum of their parts and I think this is the case here. I'm not sure why Wilton's presence is being understated either because that dude played a huge part in songs like Deliverance, Warning, Nightrider, I Dream in Infrared, Speak and Revolution Calling. If Wilton left in 83, we would've lost some absolute classics. This isn't some session musician, he was a crucial building block of the band's early material in a creative sense. If he left now, then I'm pretty sure the sound would drastically shift, because the chemistry would be heavily altered.
enjoy Toddsryche,,, have a nice weekend
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enjoy Toddsryche,,, have a nice weekend
I will indeed enjoy Todd era Queensryche, in addition to the DeGarmo years.
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There are 5 Queensryche albums I listen to and those are Mindcrime, Empire and the three they made with Todd. Mindcrime will probably always be my favorite but I like the three albums with Todd more than Empire.
The only thing I wasn't crazy about on the last three albums was the hot mastering. One of them is particularly loud, I can't remember which one. But musically they're great and I think Todd's vocals are very solid. I don't know if he's as good as Mindcrime-era Tate, that's a pretty high bar, but to me he sounds pretty damned close to classic Tate on a lot of the modern QR songs.
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The 2013 one is hella loud at a score of DR5, while the other two have DR7, so it's probably that one. It's a shame too, because I love the sleek and catchy modern metal songwriting on that one. Songs like Spore and Don't Look Back are pretty badass and I think that lineup suits that style so well.
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Agreed. I'm kind of hoping we get some remasters at a later date. I'm not holding my breath though.
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@EPICVIEW: I'll give that a LOT of fans of the classic era of Queensryche came onboard because of Tate. Nobody is disputing that. Tate gets his due, and it is well-deserving. There were a VERY small number of guys in metal that could be considered in his league, and that is an obvious draw. Not to mention the fact that the primary thing the vast majority of people notice about ANY band right up front is the front man/woman. When that person is classic-era Tate, of course that is going to be a huge draw for the lion's share of fans, especially the casual ones. You can say the same about classic-era Journey. In their original format, they were almost somewhat of a lower-tier "supergroup." The musicianship was undeniable. Yet, they didn't really turn the corner and start to have huge success until Perry joined. And for the majority of fans that jumped onboard during the Perry years, I can almost guarantee that, despite the stellar musicianship, Perry was the initial draw. Absent the odd case where a band is built around an instrumentalist that is a freakish prodigy (e.g., Yngwie), that front man/woman is what most people immediately notice and gravitate toward. And, again, that is especially true of someone of such immense vocal talent as Tate. You seem to think we are somehow slagging Tate or trying to diminish his talent or achievements. I don't think any of us are. He was my favorite singer for a VERY long time, and was VERY influential on me. Again, he gets his due (at least, for what he did back then; present day is another story).
But all of that is also completely irrelevant to what we are talking about.1 This discussion started because you were trying to compare Tate being signed in his 20s and LaTorre not being part of a major band until his brief stint with Crimson Glory and then his joining Queensryche, as if that somehow makes LaTorre inferior. Whatever happened with Tate in the '80s has nothing to do with LaTorre's abilities. Nothing. Again, you are free to dislike him. That is your prerogative. But your argument about LaTorre somehow being inferior because he wasn't signed to a major band in his 20s is complete nonsense.
1Enigma's points about QR's success also being due to the sum of the musicianship and the vocals is likewise irrelevant to that argument, which is why I bring it up in a footnote. But that said, he is also largely correct and you are, mostly incorrect on your facts. Again, I'll give you that Tate became the major draw for the band. But QR were already moving toward a record deal, and the pieces were moving into place. Tate was not. That is fact. Together, they closed the deal and were signed. You may subjectively feel that Tate's vocals were more important. That's fine. You can feel that way. But your feelings aren't fact. And they aren't relevant to the argument you are trying to make. Now, to your bigger point that (to put it in my own words), to you, current Queensryche doesn't feel like "Queensryche" to you because, to you, Tate is the primary draw and is an indispensible part of what made Queensryche Queensryche, that's valid.
A lot of people feel that way, and that's cool. Even though I think Tate getting the boot and being replaced by LaTorre is the best thing that happened to them in the 2000s, I still feel an element of that myself. But even if I didn't, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But that said, for what feels like the millionth time, your opinion does is not objective truth, and your opinion does not take anything away from LaTorre or what the band has accomplished with him.
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A great singer can be like a great actor: you still need to get good writing and often times need to be surrounded by a good cast to really show how good you can be.
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I think my two examples in my last post illustrate that.
In Journey, you had what musicians would have considered great writing. And you had what anyone would consider great singing. And they had a lot of success with that formula. Suddenly, enter Cain and you have what the general music-consuming public considers good writing, and--BAM! Superstardom.
With Queensryche, you have what musicians and some hard rock/metal fans would consider great writing, and you have increasing success. You have the great singing. Then they go for a more commercial, accessible approach, that, again, the general music-consuming public would consider good writing, and you get Empire, their most successful album in their careers.
Yeah, there are a lot of other factors to consider. And it is a general truism than a "rule," for lots of probably obvious reasons. But I think great songwriting and musicianship paired with great singing brings success more often than just one or the other, notwithstanding plenty of examples of having just one or the other.
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Great points all around there. The recipe for success, even cult-status, is generally a kind of aligning of the stars moment. This discussion has definitely reminded me how Queensryche, in their prime, represented that lightning in a bottle moment in many ways. A perfect balance between comercially accessible and deeper, more cerebral pursuits, impeccable musicianship all around, a hefty dose of spectacle, help from some of the most revered producers in the business and plenty of ambition, drive and professionalism. All that on top of writing some damned good songs and Tate having one of the best metal voices of the 80s. They really were such a well rounded band and I'd argue that many of those elements are still present in some form today too.
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I agree this is a tad boring.. any metal label would have signed Tate and formed a band around him during the 80s once he was found.
No metal label would've signed Tate because Tate didn't want to be a metal singer.
He became a metal singer because QR were a metal band, wanted him, knew how well his voice suited their music, got him to sing on their demo and got signed on the basis of that demo. At that point Tate had the option to stick with Myth and obscurity or compromise (knowing his tastes overlapped somewhat with members of QR) and hitch his wagon to QR and see how far it could go.
When QR achieved big monetary success was the point where the compromise Tate made to realise a singing career via music that wasn't entirely his thing became a problem.
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It's curious to see this discussion about the success of Queensryche/Geoff Tate and to think that it never happened the same way in South America.
This explains why the band is not so often come to this battered part of the world:
Only once in Chile, twice in Argentina and four in Brazil (the first in Rock in Rio 91 and the last unforgettable :lol). And Geoff Tate's Queensr˙che once in Brazil.
Just for comparison, Dream Theater: Argentina (7); Brazil (8); Chile (7). Plus Colombia (3); Peru (1); Venezuela (3).
I was 16 years old when I finally learned of the QR's existence. A few years later I managed to listen to OM. Only in the digital age was I able to listen to the other records! I just didn't know anyone who owned the records (or listened to the band) and they weren't within my reach.
Around here, it's always been a niche band. It doesn't even come close to Iron Maiden, Ozzy, Judas Priest, etc. I'm pretty sure bands like Helloween and Blind Guardian are more popular (so much so that they came more often).
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To my pal EPICVIEW...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Qp4d1T5jg
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That performance of Take Hold of the Flame sounds almost exactly like the studio version, amazing.
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Entire song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk84dVq644k
Geoff is showing off himself constantly in this song and I`m not really sure until today if this would the more suitable musical approach... but it`s impossibe to not be amazed hearing his performance. Totally unbelievable to this day!!! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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There was a music video for that? I had no idea.
Neither did I, but I'd stopped playing close attention by that point.
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I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. I feel like QR was founded on the idea of being a hard rock band with occasional forays into Pink Floyd psychedelica. Disconnected is a perfect example of that, and it doesn’t even feel like QR to me unless we have those really strange, off-kilter moments.
I think it's a brilliant song but it's my favorite Queensryche album ever which I think says quite a bit.
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Yes, but...they were definitely feeling their way forward in a different direction, with a brand new writing partner, and their primary writer being gone. Samsara has said this numerous times on his prior site, and I tend to agree: It would have been really interesting to hear where they went next had things not blown up with Kelly, and had he stayed in the band. With an entire album and tour under their belt, they would have gelled more as a writing/performing team, and it is entirely plausible (and likely, IMO) that their next album would have felt a lot more cohesive and felt more "Queensryche" than Q2K.
There are many things at play during the HITNF/Q2k years. Regarding HITNF, no one aside from Chris wanted to make a record, yet the label was pushing them (Chris) to do so. If you read between the lines of what was said at the time (that they wanted to try a more spontaneous, less rehearsed direction), in retrospect, you can see that. Chris gets credited with the direction of HITNF, and I agree with that. But if you take a close look at Empire, Promised Land, and HITNF, you'll see that musically, it was Chris pretty much musically dictating the direction. The band became less metal after Mindcrime, as Chris explored melody and other sides of rock, and Tate preferred not to be pigeonholed as a "metal" singer. Chris adapted to Tate's needs, his own needs, and helped bring the band together on the various projects. I've said it repeatedly - like it or not, Queensryche had a sonic evolutionary path that I personally believe Chris was very much aware of, and even when he returned from Tribe, he tried to expand on it.
Anyway, so Chris gets everyone on board with HITNF and the sparser direction, writes a record that honestly fits perfectly with the times, its first single is pretty darn big, it's second single starts to take off...then the label folds. There goes all the push at radio, all the tour support, everything. The band finances their own tour, QPrime dumps them, and QR is at ground zero. Talk about repeated haymakers. To add insult to injury, some fans turned on QR for HITNF because they didn't like the direction, which Chris steered, in my opinion, based on what he saw with Soundgarden (see here - https://anybodylistening.net/downontherycheside.html) and Alice in Chains. Queensryche sort of...ran its course to an extent, with the band's personal lives very different and all the interpersonal stuff surrounding them all.
So in comes Kelly Gray. Tate's buddy. Former Myth guitarist. Will never tell Tate "no." Gray and Wilton connect a bit, although both are very different. They come up with Right Side of My Mind. Vibes start happening. But then Gray steps into DeGarmo's shoes. He writes the best record he can at the time (he thought it was a "good" album with a healing element on it). It doesn't sound like Queensyrche's sonic evolutionary path (duh), and the style differs completely (double duh, given that your main writer and arranger is now a guy who is light years different as a player, very influenced by different guys, and is a different writer than DeGarmo).
Again, in retrospect, looking back 22 years, what did we really expect? I was pretty naive at the time about everything. All I knew was, my favorite band did a new record and was still playing and I was into it. Now...I see a reinvention. I see a band getting comfortable just being who they are on Q2k. To me, that record may not have been a sales success, but it was certainly a success in helping four guys move forward. And that's in large part in thanks to Kelly. It's not really "Queensryche" to me NOW, but it was then. And there were some gems on that record. Right Side of My Mind (Gray, Tate, Wilton) and Liquid Sky (Gray, Rockenfield, Tate) were very much "fan favorites" and a bunch of folks dug the ballad "When the Rain Comes" which musically was written by Wilton (myself included). The material was strong enough to succeed. But what happened again? Atlantic didn't support them (they should have known that), the industry changed, and pretty much what happened with HITNF happened with Q2k.
Had the fans embraced Kelly, and Kelly been able to control himself on the road (read the liner notes from Tate on the Q2k expanded edition from 2006), Kelly would have likely continued on. Seeing him get to know the guys, what works and what doesn't, would have led to a better record overall. Would people have "liked" it? Would it sound more "Queensryche" (how is that defined -- the DeGarmo era, the late 80s/early 90s?) You never know. But take the name "Queensryche" off the record, and I know I personally really like about 2/3 of Q2k. My guess is, I would have at least LIKED a follow-up with Kelly Gray.
When DeGarmo came back for Tribe, the band had floundered, Chris came in after hearing about Tate's lyrical theme, had some ideas the band really liked, and really liked some of his suggested additions to other songs they had already written, etc.) Those songs, Desert Dance, Open, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine, The Art of Life (and Justified) -- do you all like them? Because that's honestly "Queensryche" again, with all five guys a part of it in some way, shape or form. That's the sonic evolution of DeGarmo-Tate continuing. Chris left in the middle of the sessions, because of various reasons, which aren't important for this post. But that handful of songs is generally that continued evolution of "Queensryche"
I think the problem is, people consider "Queensryche" or the "Queensryche sound" to be defined by albums and time. Specifically, I think people define the band by the EP-Empire. For me, while looking back at it all, I think what is "Queensryche" is more defined by the musical relationship of DeGarmo, Tate, and Wilton. How that changed over the years. The funny thing is, if you consider "Eyes of a Stranger" to be a definitive QR song, and I think most people do, that's a DeGarmo/Tate track. The evolution and defining of what Queensryche was, songwise, is in my opinion, that relationship, and where they took their partnership as writers. Not the albums that defined them, but their path as writers (along with Wilton to a degree, although he was less involved over time, for whatever reason).
Coming back to Q2k, it's a solid hard rock record that had a lot of potential to be more successful than it was. And if the situation was different, I think a second record with him would have continued the same sonic path as Q2k, but with some other keyboard elements added. Whether people would have "liked" that, is anyone's guess.
B
Thanks for this.
Makes even more sense given what you said that I would eventually come around on Hear In The Now Frontier. Can't say I listen to Q2K a lot but it might be worth a revisit.
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I feel like QR was founded on the idea of being a hard rock band with occasional forays into Pink Floyd psychedelica. Disconnected is a perfect example of that, and it doesn’t even feel like QR to me unless we have those really strange, off-kilter moments.
Great post. I agree that "Dis-con-nec-ted" is one of those necessary, "Queensryche" moments that pushes the band's envelope. You can find them on most of their records - "NM 156", ""Neue Regel", "Suite Sister Mary", "Della Brown", "Dis-con-nec-ted", "All I Want" come to mind immediately for me as examples of that. All tunes that sort of took the band a different direction and pushed the "box" Tate often talked about further open.
I'd disagree, however, on the statement that the band was founded on the idea of being a hard rock band with forays into Floyd-like psychedelia. In all the research I've done over the years, and we've done (my co-writers and I) for the biography over the past two years, my opinion would be that the guys didn't think that far ahead when they were in their initial stage of getting together. They wanted to be a band, get signed, and make a living off playing music. Some of them took it more seriously than others, but back when they were in their teens and early 20s, it wasn't about making a definitive statement about what music their band played. They were simply a rock band, who had influences from hard rock, what was being described as metal back then, and prog/art rock when Tate joined up.
Where I think it got more defined was once they got signed, and had to really develop chemistry with Tate (since he was the outsider), was how to successfully satisfy the creative needs of him, DeGarmo, and Wilton, without losing the interest of Rockenfield and Jackson. And they were really successful at balancing that...for a long time. And that nexus point was, as Tate said God knows how many time in 2012/2013, an "understanding" among the band that there should be (forgive me folks) "NO LIMITS" on where they go creatively. As they got older, tastes shifted, some guys evolved as writers, some didn't. Tate was never a metalhead. He was a prog rock guy. All the other dudes in the band were metalheads...except Chris had a (in my opinion) wider ear for melody and was more adaptable. And that helped him and Tate really develop a chemistry (and to a lesser extent, Michael, although they shifted away from his strengths as a writer toward the original band's end). together.
It was, at least as far as I can tell, a very natural evolution of their songwriting as tastes and needs changed between Tate and DeGarmo. And as you said above, jammindude, they always had that one off-kilter track that really pushed things on each record, to see how far they could go at that point in time.
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Well that would back up my original theory from way way way far back that QR was a essential blend of the 3 M’s.
DeGarmo was the Melody
Wilton was the Metal
Tate was the Madness
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To my pal EPICVIEW...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Qp4d1T5jg
Sums it up my bro,,,,, thats reality of what QR is ,,,period. They road Tates gift,, BULLSEYE
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I love this stuff for my bro TAC love how they have no idea on QR at all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy-UfzfZYEk
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The guy was amazing!
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I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.
This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.
I Will Remember (https://youtu.be/gnIZUl4KMj8)
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I love this stuff fror my bro TAC love how they have no idea on QR at all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy-UfzfZYEk
The reason why I enjoy these type of reaction videos, is because they are cultural breaking videos.
It's been a taboo for black people to listen to metal, or anything besides Hip-Hop, Jazz, Reggae, Funk, Soul, or Blues. And not be shunned, by their own people, for listening to this type of music, forget about liking country. This is breaking that barrier by showing just how much black people really enjoy metal, not only for those that are unaware of this Taboo, but also mainly for their own people to show that's it's okay to like different types of music, that extend beyond stereotypes.
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I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.
This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.
I Will Remember (https://youtu.be/gnIZUl4KMj8)
Wow..that was amazing!
I saw the Tribe Of Gypsies. Well, 3/5ths of them when Bruce Dickinson and Adrian Smith were in the band. ;D
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I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.
This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.
I Will Remember (https://youtu.be/gnIZUl4KMj8)
Nice tribute. Well done, vocally.
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I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.
This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.
I Will Remember (https://youtu.be/gnIZUl4KMj8)
Nice tribute. Well done, vocally.
Yup, it was a nice find by my dad.
He was an amazing vocalist, and is up there amongst the best. Shame we'll never get to see what we has gonna do, as he was in talks of reuniting with Tribes of Gypsies.
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Entire song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk84dVq644k
Geoff is showing off himself constantly in this song and I`m not really sure until today if this would the more suitable musical approach... but it`s impossibe to not be amazed hearing his performance. Totally unbelievable to this day!!! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
:o :o :hefdaddy
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Entire song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk84dVq644k
Geoff is showing off himself constantly in this song and I`m not really sure until today if this would the more suitable musical approach... but it`s impossibe to not be amazed hearing his performance. Totally unbelievable to this day!!! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
:o :o :hefdaddy
:metal :tup :hefdaddy
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Geoff has been so consistently bad for so long now, and his behavior has been such a turnoff, that it is hard for myself and many others to not subconsciously just write him off completely. It is really good to have these reminders of how incredible a talent he was in his prime. Good stuff! :tup
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Geoff has been so consistently bad for so long now, and his behavior has been such a turnoff, that it is hard for myself and many others to not subconsciously just write him off completely. It is really good to have these reminders of how incredible a talent he was in his prime. Good stuff! :tup
Good thing I do not care about him personally. I care about his vocals, and right now, they are actually pretty good. He's doing a better job than before. But is still showing signs that his voice will never be as it was in his prime. I do not expect him to have that same type of vocals either.
What I actually like about Geoff Tate's voice is not that he can hit those high notes. It's his tone, and how he can have a warm, low tone, and then go into those cold, shrieking highs. Mainly, his warm tone is what won me over to his voice. That tone is showcased in "Empire", "Silent Lucidity", and "Open".
Todd does not have this tone. Todd is a great vocalist, and a great frontman, and is great for Queensryche now. But, they focused on those high ends, more so than the warm tone. And that warm tone, is what a lot of people also like about Geoff Tate's vocals.
I would actually like to hear Todd do "I Will Remember".
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Geoff has been so consistently bad for so long now, and his behavior has been such a turnoff, that it is hard for myself and many others to not subconsciously just write him off completely. It is really good to have these reminders of how incredible a talent he was in his prime. Good stuff! :tup
Good thing I do not care about him personally. I care about his vocals, and right now, they are actually pretty good. He's doing a better job than before. But is still showing signs that his voice will never be as it was in his prime. I do not expect him to have that same type of vocals either.
What I actually like about Geoff Tate's voice is not that he can hit those high notes. It's his tone, and how he can have a warm, low tone, and then go into those cold, shrieking highs. Mainly, his warm tone is what won me over to his voice. That tone is showcased in "Empire", "Silent Lucidity", and "Open".
Todd does not have this tone. Todd is a great vocalist, and a great frontman, and is great for Queensryche now. But, they focused on those high ends, more so than the warm tone. And that warm tone, is what a lot of people also like about Geoff Tate's vocals.
I would actually like to hear Todd do "I Will Remember".
Hui Ben I agree I think he did IWR on his last tour
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I care about his vocals, and right now, they are actually pretty good. He's doing a better job than before. But is still showing signs that his voice will never be as it was in his prime.
I disagree with the bolded, but that's fine. More power to you if you enjoy it.
As far as not being the same as he was in his prime, you are right. But that is also self-explanatory, and nobody should expect that. The only singer I can think of that is arguable as good, decades later, as in his prime was Michael Sweet in the mid to late '00s. He may arguably have lost just a bit off his top range during that time. But he more than made up for it with better tone and timbre. But in any case, that is the exception rather than the rule.
What I actually like about Geoff Tate's voice is not that he can hit those high notes. It's his tone, and how he can have a warm, low tone, and then go into those cold, shrieking highs. Mainly, his warm tone is what won me over to his voice. That tone is showcased in "Empire", "Silent Lucidity", and "Open".
I can totally respect that. And, yes, his tone and timber on the stuff in that range are amazing (although it always baffled me how awful he always sounded on Open in a live setting, given that the range is really pretty easy).
Todd does not have this tone. Todd is a great vocalist, and a great frontman, and is great for Queensryche now.
That's totally fair. I think Todd sounds pretty good in the lower part of his register on songs like that, and that he more than does the songs justice. But you are right that his voice still doesn't have the warmth and depth of Tate's.
I would actually like to hear Todd do "I Will Remember".
Interesting. I can't decide whether or not I think that would be cool. That song calls for a softer touch, and I'm not sure whether Todd can sing well in that range without belting. It could either be great or sound really off. I'm sure that if it isn't natural for him, he could put in the work to get it to where it sounds good. But the problem is that if it isn't natural for his voice and range, a song that is soft AND high like that can be really taxing on a singer as part of a live set.
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I would actually like to hear Todd do "I Will Remember".
Interesting. I can't decide whether or not I think that would be cool. That song calls for a softer touch, and I'm not sure whether Todd can sing well in that range without belting. It could either be great or sound really off. I'm sure that if it isn't natural for him, he could put in the work to get it to where it sounds good. But the problem is that if it isn't natural for his voice and range, a song that is soft AND high like that can be really taxing on a singer as part of a live set.
Yeah, this is the one song where that difference of both singers will show immensely. I think Todd could do it. It wouldn't be Tate, but I would still enjoy hearing it if they played it live.
This song is also why I am going to see Geoff Tate this October.
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The only singer I can think of that is arguable as good, decades later, as in his prime was Michael Sweet in the mid to late '00s. He may arguably have lost just a bit off his top range during that time. But he more than made up for it with better tone and timbre. But in any case, that is the exception rather than the rule.
Glenn Hughes :hefdaddy
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The only singer I can think of that is arguable as good, decades later, as in his prime was Michael Sweet in the mid to late '00s. He may arguably have lost just a bit off his top range during that time. But he more than made up for it with better tone and timbre. But in any case, that is the exception rather than the rule.
Glenn Hughes :hefdaddy
Kip Winger came to mind as well...that man has a damn near ageless voice.
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As far as not being the same as he was in his prime, you are right. But that is also self-explanatory, and nobody should expect that. The only singer I can think of that is arguable as good, decades later, as in his prime was Michael Sweet in the mid to late '00s. He may arguably have lost just a bit off his top range during that time. But he more than made up for it with better tone and timbre. But in any case, that is the exception rather than the rule.
Michael Kiske. He was right there with Tate in the 80's and while his voice doesn't have the miles on it that Tate has, he sounds amazing today. He is 9 years younger than Tate.
Tate was 24 when he recorded Warning, and Kiske was 18 when he recorded the first Keepers album.
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Yeah, Kiske is a good example of keeping most of his range and having his voice improve. To me, he sounded thin and shrill in those early days (from what I heard). But his voice sounds warmer and fuller now.
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I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.
This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.
I Will Remember (https://youtu.be/gnIZUl4KMj8)
Nice tribute. Well done, vocally.
Yup, it was a nice find by my dad.
He was an amazing vocalist, and is up there amongst the best. Shame we'll never get to see what we has gonna do, as he was in talks of reuniting with Tribes of Gypsies.
great version. what a voice. I really liked Tribe of Gypsies.
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I just wanted to share a cover with amazing vocals by a local native man, whom also had his feet in the music industry. Gregg Analla, who was the singer for Tribe of Gypsies, and had his own rock band called Seventhsign.
This is him and a guitarist doing a cover of I Will Remember, for a benefit show for a fallen friend.
I Will Remember (https://youtu.be/gnIZUl4KMj8)
Nice tribute. Well done, vocally.
Yup, it was a nice find by my dad.
He was an amazing vocalist, and is up there amongst the best. Shame we'll never get to see what we has gonna do, as he was in talks of reuniting with Tribes of Gypsies.
great version. what a voice. I really liked Tribe of Gypsies.
Yeah. He was well known here, among the same level as Randy Castillo, at least in the metal community. It was a sad day when he got into that motorcycle accident.
It was after he did Rumble with George Lynch. It's a great documentary I highly recommend.
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Tate was THE BEST its the package of him, his tone and delivery , his range , the sound of his voice period. these silly slagging of the man is silly.. Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans always. comparing him to anyone but Halford is just ridiculous and Tate had a seriousness that Rob didnt have, Tate is the best for so many reasons, why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly, most never gave back like Tate did period MY OPINION
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Yeah, Kiske is a good example of keeping most of his range and having his voice improve. To me, he sounded thin and shrill in those early days (from what I heard). But his voice sounds warmer and fuller now.
That might be because Kiske uses falsetto for the high notes.
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Tate was THE BEST its the package of him, his tone and delivery , his range , the sound of his voice period. these silly slagging of the man is silly.. Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans always. comparing him to anyone but Halford is just ridiculous and Tate had a seriousness that Rob didnt have, Tate is the best for so many reasons, why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly, most never gave back like Tate did period MY OPINION
Tate gets venom because his action lead to him leaving the band. The same goes for Perry and DeYoung. All Iconic and major parts that made the bands recognizable but in the end their action hurt the bands.
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Tate was THE BEST its the package of him, his tone and delivery , his range , the sound of his voice period. these silly slagging of the man is silly.. Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans always. comparing him to anyone but Halford is just ridiculous and Tate had a seriousness that Rob didnt have, Tate is the best for so many reasons, why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly, most never gave back like Tate did period MY OPINION
Tate gets venom because his action lead to him leaving the band. The same goes for Perry and DeYoung. All Iconic and major parts that made the bands recognizable but in the end their action hurt the bands.
[/quote
It was the bands actions also I dont understand why they got a pass at all ...
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Tate and his wife made a power move and the rest of the band felt voiceless. That's never good so they voted the management including his wife out. I see no issue with that at all. Geoff did like it. Attacked Scott the drummer and lashed out onstage. Yeah, Geoff has a huge slice of blame there.
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Tate was THE BEST its the package of him, his tone and delivery , his range , the sound of his voice period. these silly slagging of the man is silly.. Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans always. comparing him to anyone but Halford is just ridiculous and Tate had a seriousness that Rob didnt have, Tate is the best for so many reasons, why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly, most never gave back like Tate did period MY OPINION
Tate gets venom because his action lead to him leaving the band. The same goes for Perry and DeYoung. All Iconic and major parts that made the bands recognizable but in the end their action hurt the bands.
[/quote
It was the bands actions also I dont understand why they got a pass at all ...
A little more incite. I know Sam could tell you more.
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/remaining-queensryche-members-accuse-geoff-tate-of-financial-wrongdoing-violence/
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Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans always.
Glad that is your experience with him. That is the experience of a lot of people. And that's great. But there are a lot of other people out there (a lot) who have seen a much different side of him. And that is valid as well. Your personal experiences aren't the only ones that count.
why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly
Well, there are a LOT of '80s rockstars who are great rockstars, but pretty bad people. Being an '80s rockstar isn't some magic immunity from having to behave like a good person. In fact, a lot of rockstars and other entertainers don't ever really learn how to be good people because they don't have to spend the majority of their time dealing with anyone other than those who adore them and tell them how great they are.
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Tate and his wife made a power move and the rest of the band felt voiceless. That's never good so they voted the management including his wife out. I see no issue with that at all. Geoff did like it. Attacked Scott the drummer and lashed out onstage. Yeah, Geoff has a huge slice of blame there.
^ This. Not to mention the hours and hours of shitty music (Q2K - D2C) with progressively lackluster vocal performances leading up to all that.. Yeah it's really difficult to imagine why anyone would have a negative perception of Tate ::)
Damn. The QR Cabaret thing ALONE is hate-worthy enough. Probably one of the lamest decisions ever made.
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Here's the thing. Tate gets the most blame from people for the falling out. And IMO, that's justified. Once Chris left, and with every subsequent album and tour, Tate and his wife took more and more control of Queensryche and made it their personal family business. And in doing so, they made a LOT of missteps along the way, both musically (IMO) and financially. That said, however, it would be ridiculous to blame only Tate. The rest of the band allowed it to happen. Why? Because they were getting paid. They might not have liked what Tate and his wife were doing, but they certainly enjoyed the money. And when it comes right down to it, Queensryche, as a band, once DeGarmo left, really became all about a cash grab, as opposed to art.
Sure, Tate deserves some credit for coming up with the theme, or vision for all the records following Chris' departure, and steering QR in the direction he felt the band should move. Perhaps it was artistically fulfilling for him. But the more you follow the story, the most it becomes painfully obvious that as long as their wallets were filled, no one was going to rock the boat.
It wasn't until after Tate and his wife pushed too hard and too far, that the band actually started to listen to the people who actually cared. So if you're going to be fair, yes, a huge amount of blame is on the Tates for their greed and nepotism. But Wilton, Rockenfield and Jackson allowed it to happen, IMO, because they were getting paid. At that point in their lives (1998-2012), I would assume they felt as long as the money was coming in, they could put up with the dramatics from their singer and his wife. Then the Tates got too greedy, and that was that.
So blame all around.
After all these years, I hate even thinking about all that. We discussed it in the forthcoming biography, but tried to just give all the facts and let people make their own decisions on who is to blame. We stayed as balanced as possible, but there was no getting around some of the shadiness from the Tate camp. It was what it was.
Queensryche is celebrating 40 years as a band next year. The band is a huge success story. How they got there wasn't pretty. But it's damn noteworthy that they have been an active band for 40 years.
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Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans always.
Glad that is your experience with him. That is the experience of a lot of people. And that's great. But there are a lot of other people out there (a lot) who have seen a much different side of him. And that is valid as well. Your personal experiences aren't the only ones that count.
why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly
Well, there are a LOT of '80s rockstars who are great rockstars, but pretty bad people. Being an '80s rockstar isn't some magic immunity from having to behave like a good person. In fact, a lot of rockstars and other entertainers don't ever really learn how to be good people because they don't have to spend the majority of their time dealing with anyone other than those who adore them and tell them how great they are.
I agree Boss ,,, on both points,, no doubt
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Here's the thing. Tate gets the most blame from people for the falling out. And IMO, that's justified. Once Chris left, and with every subsequent album and tour, Tate and his wife took more and more control of Queensryche and made it their personal family business. And in doing so, they made a LOT of missteps along the way, both musically (IMO) and financially. That said, however, it would be ridiculous to blame only Tate. The rest of the band allowed it to happen. Why? Because they were getting paid. They might not have liked what Tate and his wife were doing, but they certainly enjoyed the money. And when it comes right down to it, Queensryche, as a band, once DeGarmo left, really became all about a cash grab, as opposed to art.
Sure, Tate deserves some credit for coming up with the theme, or vision for all the records following Chris' departure, and steering QR in the direction he felt the band should move. Perhaps it was artistically fulfilling for him. But the more you follow the story, the most it becomes painfully obvious that as long as their wallets were filled, no one was going to rock the boat.
I've always said I'd never behoove someone from making a living, but this is exactly why I've never felt bad for the rest of the band, no matter what Tate's antics were. They are professional musicians. Their hearts don't have to be in it to earn a living.
But as a big time fan of the band in the early days, and peripheral onlooker in later years, this was painfully obvious. Eddie Jackson is as replaceable as anyone., he brings zero to the band, and Scott Rockenfield is well..a drummer.
The one who surprised me that let it get out of hand is Wilton. He seemed artistic enough, and after Degarmo left, I'm kind of surprised that Wilton stayed, especially since he's the "metal" guy, as Tate moved the band away from that. Brian, I hope your book gives some insight in to Wilton's perspective during that time.
Queensryche is celebrating 40 years as a band next year. The band is a huge success story. How they got there wasn't pretty. But it's damn noteworthy that they have been an active band for 40 years.
I will in no way begrudge a professional musician's 40 year career, but to call this band a huge success story is a bit much, no?
They are an 80's has been band that had some success in the 90's. In the end they are really no different than Cinderella or Tesla. And I'd never call either a huge success story.
Geoff Tate is playing the armpits of America and Queensryche..I guess artistically, their last 3 albums with Todd have been very good. I congratulate them for that, but it has more to do with Todd IMO than the actual Queensryche dudes.
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Here's the thing. Tate gets the most blame from people for the falling out. And IMO, that's justified. Once Chris left, and with every subsequent album and tour, Tate and his wife took more and more control of Queensryche and made it their personal family business. And in doing so, they made a LOT of missteps along the way, both musically (IMO) and financially. That said, however, it would be ridiculous to blame only Tate. The rest of the band allowed it to happen. Why? Because they were getting paid. They might not have liked what Tate and his wife were doing, but they certainly enjoyed the money. And when it comes right down to it, Queensryche, as a band, once DeGarmo left, really became all about a cash grab, as opposed to art.
Sure, Tate deserves some credit for coming up with the theme, or vision for all the records following Chris' departure, and steering QR in the direction he felt the band should move. Perhaps it was artistically fulfilling for him. But the more you follow the story, the most it becomes painfully obvious that as long as their wallets were filled, no one was going to rock the boat.
I've always said I'd never behoove someone from making a living, but this is exactly why I've never felt bad for the rest of the band, no matter what Tate's antics were. They are professional musicians. Their hearts don't have to be in it to earn a living.
But as a big time fan of the band in the early days, and peripheral onlooker in later years, this was painfully obvious. Eddie Jackson is as replaceable as anyone., he brings zero to the band, and Scott Rockenfield is well..a drummer.
The one who surprised me that let it get out of hand is Wilton. He seemed artistic enough, and after Degarmo left, I'm kind of surprised that Wilton stayed, especially since he's the "metal" guy, as Tate moved the band away from that. Brian, I hope your book gives some insight in to Wilton's perspective during that time.
Queensryche is celebrating 40 years as a band next year. The band is a huge success story. How they got there wasn't pretty. But it's damn noteworthy that they have been an active band for 40 years.
I will in no way begrudge a professional musician's 40 year career, but to call this band a huge success story is a bit much, no?
They are an 80's has been band that had some success in the 90's. In the end they are really no different than Cinderella or Tesla. And I'd never call either a huge success story.
Geoff Tate is playing the armpits of America and Queensryche..I guess artistically, their last 3 albums with Todd have been very good. I congratulate them for that, but it has more to do with Todd IMO than the actual Queensryche dudes.
YUP TAC,,,, also if Tate left with Chris then what?
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Saw the last tour with Fates Warning. It was a fantastic show.
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TAC,
re: Wilton's perspective -- hard to really provide that. He didn't do a fresh interview for the book. And even if he did, I don't think he'd directly answer that. You can tell from my interview with him back in 2002 that he was unhappy with what Tate wanted to do artistically - https://anybodylistening.net/images/mw-bh-Oct2002.pdf
But as for his thoughts in retrospect, I can say this much -- when we were on good terms before and during the split, he admitted that its difficult to leave a band that you started, particularly with a name and legacy such as Queensryche. It was, at least to me, and the way he said it to me, something you can tell he struggled with. He didn't want to leave the band he co-founded. But he also didn't want to lose the iconic voice that was a draw. It was a difficult situation. I can't quite put that in the book, as it wasn't an interview, simply conversation. But I can say Michael was in a tough spot, and I understood his reluctance to stir the pot before he did finally do it.
Again, the book will put the facts out there. The reader is to draw their own conclusions. We did our best to take any of our own biases and toss them. And we looked to balance things as honestly and thoroughly as we could. The book has a theme (Tate would be proud - lol) of perseverance, a term I think is very apt for Queensryche.
re: "success story" -- I disagree with your assessment. When you read the book, and you go in-depth on the formation, where they came from and what they achieved, the fact the band is still active, making new records (something that Cinderella doesn't do, and Tesla doesn't do well lately, to counter both your examples), and touring globally after 40 years is a "success" to me. These guys came from nothing in a place at the time was considered nowhere. The band had good songs but no singer. The singer had a band but not with the drive of the QR guys. They joined forces, developed a great working relationship, and for many years slowly built an empire. (Pun intended.) They survived the late 90s, used the mid-2000s to launch their career again with MC II (which put them into sold out theaters and amphitheaters after having been downgraded to clubs), died out again, and then with the firing of Tate, managed to recapture a metal audience with their new records. And while they are not playing big places any longer, they do, for the most part, have their artistic integrity back and intact (speaking generally, my personal opinion differs a bit). This band has been dealt blow after blow (and many from their own making), and just keep fighting back. To me, and to many, that is a success. And we'll be telling that story.
Don't get me wrong, our Queensryche book isn't this blow smoke up their ass bio. I would not be associated with a book that did that. But between the three of us, that word perseverance kept coming up, and it helped guide the writing. Ultimately, I think after reading the book, you'll have an appreciation from where they came, and where they are, and change your mind. They don't come out all roses. The warts are there to read (and make your own call on). But they are still here, writing new records, touring, and putting on well received shows. And that to me, is a success. 40 years and counting.
I even say in the book, both in my introduction, and the very last couple paragraphs of the final chapter, which I wrote, that QR isn't the same band it once was. That's obvious. But they keep overcoming obstacles to get back on their feet. And if you do that, time and time again after 40 years, that's a success.
But hey, read the book. I'll be curious to hear your honest reaction. It was a lot of fun writing it. And as a quick update, we have what will likely be our last meeting on the final copy of the book tomorrow night. It's all done, just giving the thumbs up on the edits. Then I need to do a copy edit (no changing of the general text, just looking for grammar and spelling mistakes). Then it's off to the designer! Excited.
Happy Father's Day T. Miss you bud. Hoping your travels bring you out here at some point soon again, or I head out your way. My 20 year law school reunion is in a couple years. I may take the opportunity to head back, track you down, and put a shopping cart next to you car. ;) :lol What we really need to do is go see MAIDEN together when they tour next!
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I get the impression that Wilton is just somewhat of a passive guy by nature. That has nothing to do with his artistic drive. He just isn't a type-A personality. Geoff is a type-A, and then some. So I guess I'm not overly surprised that he let things get to where they were. His personality type (assuming I am not too far off on that) and what Samsara described make it seem pretty logical to me that things played out the way they did.
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TAC,
re: Wilton's perspective -- hard to really provide that. He didn't do a fresh interview for the book. And even if he did, I don't think he'd directly answer that. You can tell from my interview with him back in 2002 that he was unhappy with what Tate wanted to do artistically - https://anybodylistening.net/images/mw-bh-Oct2002.pdf
But as for his thoughts in retrospect, I can say this much -- when we were on good terms before and during the split, he admitted that its difficult to leave a band that you started, particularly with a name and legacy such as Queensryche. It was, at least to me, and the way he said it to me, something you can tell he struggled with. He didn't want to leave the band he co-founded. But he also didn't want to lose the iconic voice that was a draw. It was a difficult situation. I can't quite put that in the book, as it wasn't an interview, simply conversation. But I can say Michael was in a tough spot, and I understood his reluctance to stir the pot before he did finally do it.
Again, the book will put the facts out there. The reader is to draw their own conclusions. We did our best to take any of our own biases and toss them. And we looked to balance things as honestly and thoroughly as we could. The book has a theme (Tate would be proud - lol) of perseverance, a term I think is very apt for Queensryche.
re: "success story" -- I disagree with your assessment. When you read the book, and you go in-depth on the formation, where they came from and what they achieved, the fact the band is still active, making new records (something that Cinderella doesn't do, and Tesla doesn't do well lately, to counter both your examples), and touring globally after 40 years is a "success" to me. These guys came from nothing in a place at the time was considered nowhere. The band had good songs but no singer. The singer had a band but not with the drive of the QR guys. They joined forces, developed a great working relationship, and for many years slowly built an empire. (Pun intended.) They survived the late 90s, used the mid-2000s to launch their career again with MC II (which put them into sold out theaters and amphitheaters after having been downgraded to clubs), died out again, and then with the firing of Tate, managed to recapture a metal audience with their new records. And while they are not playing big places any longer, they do, for the most part, have their artistic integrity back and intact (speaking generally, my personal opinion differs a bit). This band has been dealt blow after blow (and many from their own making), and just keep fighting back. To me, and to many, that is a success. And we'll be telling that story.
Don't get me wrong, our Queensryche book isn't this blow smoke up their ass bio. I would not be associated with a book that did that. But between the three of us, that word perseverance kept coming up, and it helped guide the writing. Ultimately, I think after reading the book, you'll have an appreciation from where they came, and where they are, and change your mind. They don't come out all roses. The warts are there to read (and make your own call on). But they are still here, writing new records, touring, and putting on well received shows. And that to me, is a success. 40 years and counting.
I even say in the book, both in my introduction, and the very last couple paragraphs of the final chapter, which I wrote, that QR isn't the same band it once was. That's obvious. But they keep overcoming obstacles to get back on their feet. And if you do that, time and time again after 40 years, that's a success.
But hey, read the book. I'll be curious to hear your honest reaction. It was a lot of fun writing it. And as a quick update, we have what will likely be our last meeting on the final copy of the book tomorrow night. It's all done, just giving the thumbs up on the edits. Then I need to do a copy edit (no changing of the general text, just looking for grammar and spelling mistakes). Then it's off to the designer! Excited.
Happy Father's Day T. Miss you bud. Hoping your travels bring you out here at some point soon again, or I head out your way. My 20 year law school reunion is in a couple years. I may take the opportunity to head back, track you down, and put a shopping cart next to you car. ;) :lol What we really need to do is go see MAIDEN together when they tour next!
I've probably said this before, but thank you in advance for writing this...I'm seriously excited to read it and am happy it's YOU, a lifelong fan with an invested interest, writing this.
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TAC,
re: Wilton's perspective -- hard to really provide that. He didn't do a fresh interview for the book. And even if he did, I don't think he'd directly answer that. You can tell from my interview with him back in 2002 that he was unhappy with what Tate wanted to do artistically - https://anybodylistening.net/images/mw-bh-Oct2002.pdf
But as for his thoughts in retrospect, I can say this much -- when we were on good terms before and during the split, he admitted that its difficult to leave a band that you started, particularly with a name and legacy such as Queensryche. It was, at least to me, and the way he said it to me, something you can tell he struggled with. He didn't want to leave the band he co-founded. But he also didn't want to lose the iconic voice that was a draw. It was a difficult situation. I can't quite put that in the book, as it wasn't an interview, simply conversation. But I can say Michael was in a tough spot, and I understood his reluctance to stir the pot before he did finally do it.
Again, the book will put the facts out there. The reader is to draw their own conclusions. We did our best to take any of our own biases and toss them. And we looked to balance things as honestly and thoroughly as we could. The book has a theme (Tate would be proud - lol) of perseverance, a term I think is very apt for Queensryche.
re: "success story" -- I disagree with your assessment. When you read the book, and you go in-depth on the formation, where they came from and what they achieved, the fact the band is still active, making new records (something that Cinderella doesn't do, and Tesla doesn't do well lately, to counter both your examples), and touring globally after 40 years is a "success" to me. These guys came from nothing in a place at the time was considered nowhere. The band had good songs but no singer. The singer had a band but not with the drive of the QR guys. They joined forces, developed a great working relationship, and for many years slowly built an empire. (Pun intended.) They survived the late 90s, used the mid-2000s to launch their career again with MC II (which put them into sold out theaters and amphitheaters after having been downgraded to clubs), died out again, and then with the firing of Tate, managed to recapture a metal audience with their new records. And while they are not playing big places any longer, they do, for the most part, have their artistic integrity back and intact (speaking generally, my personal opinion differs a bit). This band has been dealt blow after blow (and many from their own making), and just keep fighting back. To me, and to many, that is a success. And we'll be telling that story.
Don't get me wrong, our Queensryche book isn't this blow smoke up their ass bio. I would not be associated with a book that did that. But between the three of us, that word perseverance kept coming up, and it helped guide the writing. Ultimately, I think after reading the book, you'll have an appreciation from where they came, and where they are, and change your mind. They don't come out all roses. The warts are there to read (and make your own call on). But they are still here, writing new records, touring, and putting on well received shows. And that to me, is a success. 40 years and counting.
I even say in the book, both in my introduction, and the very last couple paragraphs of the final chapter, which I wrote, that QR isn't the same band it once was. That's obvious. But they keep overcoming obstacles to get back on their feet. And if you do that, time and time again after 40 years, that's a success.
But hey, read the book. I'll be curious to hear your honest reaction. It was a lot of fun writing it. And as a quick update, we have what will likely be our last meeting on the final copy of the book tomorrow night. It's all done, just giving the thumbs up on the edits. Then I need to do a copy edit (no changing of the general text, just looking for grammar and spelling mistakes). Then it's off to the designer! Excited.
Happy Father's Day T. Miss you bud. Hoping your travels bring you out here at some point soon again, or I head out your way. My 20 year law school reunion is in a couple years. I may take the opportunity to head back, track you down, and put a shopping cart next to you car. ;) :lol What we really need to do is go see MAIDEN together when they tour next!
Amen to the bolded part, Brian and Happy Father's Day to you. Lots going on as usual. :)
Thank you for not getting defensive about the success point. I treat everything I post here at DTF as a couple of dudes talking music over a couple of beers.
There's no doubt they're successful musicians. They've survived. I was just wondering how "huge" of a success it really was. That was my mindset, and you make good points.
Hell f'n yes I'm going to buy your book.
And who knows. Maybe one day we'll have a Pumpkins Ryche United tour where Kiske Tate and Hansen Degarmo return for a 7 piece spectacular. ;D :metal
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Sorry if this has been previously posted, but the band is releasing boxsets for Operation Mindcrime and Empire for those interested. Lots of content that most of us that are hardcore have seen or heard already but its Queensr˙che in the good old days. I personally will never tire of the 4 album stretch from Rage for Order to Promised Land. Nothing matches it for me personally by any band.
https://loudwire.com/queensryche-operation-mindcrime-empire-box-sets/
https://shop.udiscovermusic.com/collections/queensryche
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I've probably said this before, but thank you in advance for writing this...I'm seriously excited to read it and am happy it's YOU, a lifelong fan with an invested interest, writing this.
Thanks. Appreciate you saying that and the interest in the book. Just so that everyone knows, it's a three-person writing team. The main voice is James Beach. And he is joined by myself and Brian Naron, who is one of the largest collectors of the band in the world. The way our writing process works (or worked, since we are basically done with the writing) is that James did the first pass at the main narrative. Naron and I wrote a bunch of sidebars and extra sections apart from the narrative. Once James completed the main story/narrative, I then took it and edited/rewrote/wrote a bunch of additional content for the main narrative to provide color, context, clarity, and to smooth things out.
Naron was our main researcher, as he has literally everything, and if we needed something but couldn't remember where it was, he knew exactly where every quote was, everywhere. He didn't write as much as James and I (both James and I write/edit for a living), but we would have been lost without Naron's insight, edits and research. The three of us really work well together and it was, as you'll see, a total team effort that we're proud of.
More to come on the book. Once we sign off on all the edits tonight, then we jump into photos, have the designer mock up the front and back covers, establish pre-orders (there will be a special edition of some cool stuff hardcores will dig), and all the promotional stuff leading up the release. Really excited to share it with you all. I'd expect a press release to coincide with the cover unveiling and pre-orders some time late next month/early-August, and an October release date.
Amen to the bolded part, Brian and Happy Father's Day to you. Lots going on as usual. :)
Thank you for not getting defensive about the success point. I treat everything I post here at DTF as a couple of dudes talking music over a couple of beers.
There's no doubt they're successful musicians. They've survived. I was just wondering how "huge" of a success it really was. That was my mindset, and you make good points.
Hell f'n yes I'm going to buy your book.
And who knows. Maybe one day we'll have a Pumpkins Ryche United tour where Kiske Tate and Hansen Degarmo return for a 7 piece spectacular. ;D :metal
On the latter T, honestly, I'd rather not have Tate and DeGarmo return, personally. I'd rather just remember greatness when it was great.
As for the other stuff, I'd never take a discussion between us defensively. Everything is open to interpretation, and I could make the same argument about "success story" as you did. Your point has merit completely. As I said, I don't necessarily agree, but I absolutely see your point and it has merit to it. Enjoy the weekend bud!
Sorry if this has been previously posted, but the band is releasing boxsets for Operation Mindcrime and Empire for those interested. Lots of content that most of us that are hardcore have seen or heard already but its Queensr˙che in the good old days. I personally will never tire of the 4 album stretch from Rage for Order to Promised Land. Nothing matches it for me personally by any band.
https://loudwire.com/queensryche-operation-mindcrime-empire-box-sets/
https://shop.udiscovermusic.com/collections/queensryche
I did a blog about the contents that helps people decide if they want to buy it or not: https://anybodylistening.net/empire-30-details.html
I'm curious if the Abbey Road Studios remaster improves the terribly redlined remaster of 2003. But outside of that, there's nothing new except some new liner notes. Every single piece of musical or video content has been available before in some form or another. Here's the bottom line from my blog:
"In a nutshell, unless you've never owned these two albums previously (unlikely if you are reading this blog) or lost all your physical media over the years for whatever reason, there's almost ZERO reason to purchase these two new editions. Of course, completists may want the newly remastered audio and the different packaging. But there isn't much bang for your buck here."
>>>>Being a completist myself, I'll get the sets down the road. But at full price, I'm not feeling the need to get it. The content is a total letdown.
Regarding the band's catalog, for me, a properly resequenced version of The Warning through Promised Land is the pinnacle of Queensryche's recorded content. And honestly, I've grown quite fond of about 2/3 of Hear in the Now Frontier over the years. That original band had something really special that not many bands can replicate for the length of time Queensryche did.
Anyway, if anyone picks up these box sets, please do an A/B listen of the original/2003 remaster/2021 remaster. Would be really curious to hear if they actually got it right.
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I spun Empire today after too many years to count. Flawless perfection from beginning to end. And OMG does Tate ever sound amazing. I forgot how much I love this album.
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I spun Empire today after too many years to count. Flawless perfection from beginning to end. And OMG does Tate ever sound amazing. I forgot how much I love this album.
From a sonic perspective, there aren't many that top it. Many engineers used that album to test rooms for recording. It's just so perfectly done. Really a shame that with the new box set the demos weren't cleaned up and put out there. They've been available to traders and now on YouTube, for a long time now. But I would have loved to have had a whole disc of cleaned up demo material, and maybe a fresh interview with Jimbo Barton about recording Empire. Oh well.
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I know not everyone enjoys reaction videos but this found its way to me on YouTube, dudes first time hearing Mindcrime and he tries his best to piece the story together as he goes. It was almost like hearing it again for the first time myself…
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhHrgMNSTIpTZHgjx1rh4RygmNHCoD4px
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Here's the thing. Tate gets the most blame from people for the falling out. And IMO, that's justified. Once Chris left, and with every subsequent album and tour, Tate and his wife took more and more control of Queensryche and made it their personal family business. And in doing so, they made a LOT of missteps along the way, both musically (IMO) and financially. That said, however, it would be ridiculous to blame only Tate. The rest of the band allowed it to happen. Why? Because they were getting paid. They might not have liked what Tate and his wife were doing, but they certainly enjoyed the money. And when it comes right down to it, Queensryche, as a band, once DeGarmo left, really became all about a cash grab, as opposed to art.
Sure, Tate deserves some credit for coming up with the theme, or vision for all the records following Chris' departure, and steering QR in the direction he felt the band should move. Perhaps it was artistically fulfilling for him. But the more you follow the story, the most it becomes painfully obvious that as long as their wallets were filled, no one was going to rock the boat.
It wasn't until after Tate and his wife pushed too hard and too far, that the band actually started to listen to the people who actually cared. So if you're going to be fair, yes, a huge amount of blame is on the Tates for their greed and nepotism. But Wilton, Rockenfield and Jackson allowed it to happen, IMO, because they were getting paid. At that point in their lives (1998-2012), I would assume they felt as long as the money was coming in, they could put up with the dramatics from their singer and his wife. Then the Tates got too greedy, and that was that.
So blame all around.
After all these years, I hate even thinking about all that. We discussed it in the forthcoming biography, but tried to just give all the facts and let people make their own decisions on who is to blame. We stayed as balanced as possible, but there was no getting around some of the shadiness from the Tate camp. It was what it was.
Queensryche is celebrating 40 years as a band next year. The band is a huge success story. How they got there wasn't pretty. But it's damn noteworthy that they have been an active band for 40 years.
Behind The Music episode waiting to happen....
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If there's an option of international shipping for the book, I'd gladly buy a copy. :)
I will in no way begrudge a professional musician's 40 year career, but to call this band a huge success story is a bit much, no?
They are an 80's has been band that had some success in the 90's. In the end they are really no different than Cinderella or Tesla. And I'd never call either a huge success story.
That's a little harsh I think. Their 1980s output is very highly rated, Operation:Mindcrime pops up on most "greatest heavy metal albums ever" lists. And their 1990s success is nothing to sneer at: two top ten albums, one top ten hit, seven top ten Mainstream Rock hits. Not many metal bands boast such a record.
In addition, them being linked to the first wave of progressive metal has also given them a certain "cult" status. While I don't personally consider them prog metal band outside of Rage for Order and some songs from The Warning and O:M, I think progressive can also mean the opposite of "stagnant". And that's something you can not say about the classic line-up discography. Even if someone would consider Hear in the Now Frontier a misfire, it is in no way a retread of what they had done previously.
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I will in no way begrudge a professional musician's 40 year career, but to call this band a huge success story is a bit much, no?
They are an 80's has been band that had some success in the 90's. In the end they are really no different than Cinderella or Tesla. And I'd never call either a huge success story.
That's a little harsh I think. Their 1980s output is very highly rated, Operation:Mindcrime pops up on most "greatest heavy metal albums ever" lists. And their 1990s success is nothing to sneer at: two top ten albums, one top ten hit, seven top ten Mainstream Rock hits. Not many metal bands boast such a record.
Hey Ruba! I was just pushing back a bit on this statement:
Queensryche is celebrating 40 years as a band next year. The band is a huge success story.
I just thought it was a slight exaggeration. But Samsara responded so we're all good.
In addition, them being linked to the first wave of progressive metal has also given them a certain "cult" status. While I don't personally consider them prog metal band outside of Rage for Order and some songs from The Warning and O:M, I think progressive can also mean the opposite of "stagnant". And that's something you can not say about the classic line-up discography. Even if someone would consider Hear in the Now Frontier a misfire, it is in no way a retread of what they had done previously.
I agree with this.
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I spun Empire today after too many years to count. Flawless perfection from beginning to end. And OMG does Tate ever sound amazing. I forgot how much I love this album.
From a sonic perspective, there aren't many that top it. Many engineers used that album to test rooms for recording. It's just so perfectly done. Really a shame that with the new box set the demos weren't cleaned up and put out there. They've been available to traders and now on YouTube, for a long time now. But I would have loved to have had a whole disc of cleaned up demo material, and maybe a fresh interview with Jimbo Barton about recording Empire. Oh well.
I was pretty disappointed with the deluxe editions in regards to features and things that weren’t on the last batch of reissues. As you say, demos would have been new to me. The Empire one doesn’t even include the 5:1 mix. Mindcrime could have done with a 5:1 mix too.
The Marillion reissues remain the go,d standard for how these things should be done.
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I spun Empire today after too many years to count. Flawless perfection from beginning to end. And OMG does Tate ever sound amazing. I forgot how much I love this album.
From a sonic perspective, there aren't many that top it. Many engineers used that album to test rooms for recording. It's just so perfectly done. Really a shame that with the new box set the demos weren't cleaned up and put out there. They've been available to traders and now on YouTube, for a long time now. But I would have loved to have had a whole disc of cleaned up demo material, and maybe a fresh interview with Jimbo Barton about recording Empire. Oh well.
I was pretty disappointed with the deluxe editions in regards to features and things that weren’t on the last batch of reissues. As you say, demos would have been new to me. The Empire one doesn’t even include the 5:1 mix. Mindcrime could have done with a 5:1 mix too.
Considering that the band had absolutely no involvement in the deluxe edition, I wonder if Tater and the label even had copies of the demos in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if the only guys to still have that stuff are Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield. Would be curious to know why they weren't involved - if it was because of Tater's involvement, the kind of deal they were offered, (considering how Tater hid stuff from them in trying to score a deal for himself with O:M all those years ago) a lack of communication or something else.
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Without a 5.1 mix, I'm 100% out on that purchase.
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We'll get all of that stuff from Rockenryche. He'll put out addendums to the 'terrible' reissues. :biggrin:
What happened with Rockenryche? Been quiet there. Haven't seen him pop up in the news lately.
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I spun Empire today after too many years to count. Flawless perfection from beginning to end. And OMG does Tate ever sound amazing. I forgot how much I love this album.
From a sonic perspective, there aren't many that top it. Many engineers used that album to test rooms for recording. It's just so perfectly done. Really a shame that with the new box set the demos weren't cleaned up and put out there. They've been available to traders and now on YouTube, for a long time now. But I would have loved to have had a whole disc of cleaned up demo material, and maybe a fresh interview with Jimbo Barton about recording Empire. Oh well.
I was pretty disappointed with the deluxe editions in regards to features and things that weren’t on the last batch of reissues. As you say, demos would have been new to me. The Empire one doesn’t even include the 5:1 mix. Mindcrime could have done with a 5:1 mix too.
Considering that the band had absolutely no involvement in the deluxe edition, I wonder if Tater and the label even had copies of the demos in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if the only guys to still have that stuff are Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield. Would be curious to know why they weren't involved - if it was because of Tater's involvement, the kind of deal they were offered, (considering how Tater hid stuff from them in trying to score a deal for himself with O:M all those years ago) a lack of communication or something else.
I believe the "band" was involved along with Tate, I dont see how Tate can release anything using old QR material without all parties involved and signing off on it, unless something has changed outside of the 3 year agreement at the time of Tate being bought out and selling back his stock.
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[Considering that the band had absolutely no involvement in the deluxe edition, I wonder if Tater and the label even had copies of the demos in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if the only guys to still have that stuff are Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield. Would be curious to know why they weren't involved - if it was because of Tater's involvement, the kind of deal they were offered, (considering how Tater hid stuff from them in trying to score a deal for himself with O:M all those years ago) a lack of communication or something else.
I think there is a lot of laziness involved, and it has nothing to do with Tate. We all accurately felt that he was driving the directly of the band prior to his firing. I certainly expected a lot of change for the better afterwards, and I didn't necessarily get that.
Musically, the band improved to what I wanted them to be. But they continually missed opportunities to do fun things - album anniversary releases, or at least representation in the live show. Look at DT - they acknowledged things like that (Breaking the Fourth Wall - playing the second half of Awake, etc.) Queensryche's setlists became very, very stagnant, and the band would tour 2-3 years without changing much up, and even then, it was "hey, here's a couple of old songs Todd hasn't sung yet." They didn't represent newer material heavily until the band had put out three albums with Todd, which took 7 years. Prior to Tate's firing, the band would play two hour shows and feature a good 5-6 new songs every night. That no longer happened, and the shows were cut down to no more than 90 minutes, usually closer to 75-80. Here's the hits, here's one new song....goodnight!
So to me, it's complete laziness from the remaining original band members along with lack of wanting to invest in these things - it would probably cost them some decent money to remaster/remix a particular album or record a new live performance of that album as a bonus disc. Hell, they could at least buy the live recordings from festival gigs (Wacken, Hellfest) and put them out as a DVD. I can't tell you how many live dvd's I have from bands that released their show from Wacken.
They don't want to spend the money on it, or take the time to cull through their archives, if they even have any. They seem happy to just put in the minimum amount of effort for the maximum payday, then take the stance of "well we weren't asked/didn't have anything to do with it," if fans ask.
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[Considering that the band had absolutely no involvement in the deluxe edition, I wonder if Tater and the label even had copies of the demos in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if the only guys to still have that stuff are Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield. Would be curious to know why they weren't involved - if it was because of Tater's involvement, the kind of deal they were offered, (considering how Tater hid stuff from them in trying to score a deal for himself with O:M all those years ago) a lack of communication or something else.
I think there is a lot of laziness involved, and it has nothing to do with Tate. We all accurately felt that he was driving the directly of the band prior to his firing. I certainly expected a lot of change for the better afterwards, and I didn't necessarily get that.
Musically, the band improved to what I wanted them to be. But they continually missed opportunities to do fun things - album anniversary releases, or at least representation in the live show. Look at DT - they acknowledged things like that (Breaking the Fourth Wall - playing the second half of Awake, etc.) Queensryche's setlists became very, very stagnant, and the band would tour 2-3 years without changing much up, and even then, it was "hey, here's a couple of old songs Todd hasn't sung yet." They didn't represent newer material heavily until the band had put out three albums with Todd, which took 7 years. Prior to Tate's firing, the band would play two hour shows and feature a good 5-6 new songs every night. That no longer happened, and the shows were cut down to no more than 90 minutes, usually closer to 75-80. Here's the hits, here's one new song....goodnight!
So to me, it's complete laziness from the remaining original band members along with lack of wanting to invest in these things - it would probably cost them some decent money to remaster/remix a particular album or record a new live performance of that album as a bonus disc. Hell, they could at least buy the live recordings from festival gigs (Wacken, Hellfest) and put them out as a DVD. I can't tell you how many live dvd's I have from bands that released their show from Wacken.
They don't want to spend the money on it, or take the time to cull through their archives, if they even have any. They seem happy to just put in the minimum amount of effort for the maximum payday, then take the stance of "well we weren't asked/didn't have anything to do with it," if fans ask.
Don't disagree with anything you said but remember they lost a ton of money with the release of The Verdict with the Pledgemusic fallout. I think Todd mentioned it was 300k (probably more). Plus, they might still be paying off Geoff and/or Scott. But yes, they could have capitalized with the anniversaries and stuff like that.
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Don't disagree with anything you said but remember they lost a ton of money with the release of The Verdict with the Pledgemusic fallout. I think Todd mentioned it was 300k (probably more). Plus, they might still be paying off Geoff and/or Scott. But yes, they could have capitalized with the anniversaries and stuff like that.
I absolutely agree - they found themselves in a financial hole, but these issues go back well before the pledgemusic fiasco for The Verdict. Setlists stagnated after the release of the self-titled and certainly during the Condition Human tours. The Warning and RFO's anniversaries passed without any mention from the band in 2014 and 2016.
Work with a promoter and do a show in Seattle to commemorate those albums - play each one live, record it, and release a live album, or some new live bonus tracks for a re-release or EP. Or whatever. A little creativity and effort can go a long way.
My point is that Geoff isn't solely to blame for EVERYTHING, and the guys in the band now don't seem to be interested in doing anything other than the same thing year after year.
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Don't disagree with anything you said but remember they lost a ton of money with the release of The Verdict with the Pledgemusic fallout. I think Todd mentioned it was 300k (probably more). Plus, they might still be paying off Geoff and/or Scott. But yes, they could have capitalized with the anniversaries and stuff like that.
I absolutely agree - they found themselves in a financial hole, but these issues go back well before the pledgemusic fiasco for The Verdict. Setlists stagnated after the release of the self-titled and certainly during the Condition Human tours. The Warning and RFO's anniversaries passed without any mention from the band in 2014 and 2016.
Work with a promoter and do a show in Seattle to commemorate those albums - play each one live, record it, and release a live album, or some new live bonus tracks for a re-release or EP. Or whatever. A little creativity and effort can go a long way.
My point is that Geoff isn't solely to blame for EVERYTHING, and the guys in the band now don't seem to be interested in doing anything other than the same thing year after year.
Yep. Absolutely agree. I think Todd would have done a good job singing the older albums. I think Geoff has done a good job on that aspect (album anniversaries and tours). He seems to be always one step ahead from QR in that regard.
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That's because the guys in Queensryche can't fucking think for themselves.
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That's because the guys in Queensryche can't fucking think for themselves.
They literally wrote a song with the lyric “think for yourself”.
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:lol
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[Considering that the band had absolutely no involvement in the deluxe edition, I wonder if Tater and the label even had copies of the demos in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if the only guys to still have that stuff are Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield. Would be curious to know why they weren't involved - if it was because of Tater's involvement, the kind of deal they were offered, (considering how Tater hid stuff from them in trying to score a deal for himself with O:M all those years ago) a lack of communication or something else.
I think there is a lot of laziness involved, and it has nothing to do with Tate. We all accurately felt that he was driving the directly of the band prior to his firing. I certainly expected a lot of change for the better afterwards, and I didn't necessarily get that.
Musically, the band improved to what I wanted them to be. But they continually missed opportunities to do fun things - album anniversary releases, or at least representation in the live show. Look at DT - they acknowledged things like that (Breaking the Fourth Wall - playing the second half of Awake, etc.) Queensryche's setlists became very, very stagnant, and the band would tour 2-3 years without changing much up, and even then, it was "hey, here's a couple of old songs Todd hasn't sung yet." They didn't represent newer material heavily until the band had put out three albums with Todd, which took 7 years. Prior to Tate's firing, the band would play two hour shows and feature a good 5-6 new songs every night. That no longer happened, and the shows were cut down to no more than 90 minutes, usually closer to 75-80. Here's the hits, here's one new song....goodnight!
So to me, it's complete laziness from the remaining original band members along with lack of wanting to invest in these things - it would probably cost them some decent money to remaster/remix a particular album or record a new live performance of that album as a bonus disc. Hell, they could at least buy the live recordings from festival gigs (Wacken, Hellfest) and put them out as a DVD. I can't tell you how many live dvd's I have from bands that released their show from Wacken.
They don't want to spend the money on it, or take the time to cull through their archives, if they even have any. They seem happy to just put in the minimum amount of effort for the maximum payday, then take the stance of "well we weren't asked/didn't have anything to do with it," if fans ask.
Don't disagree with anything you said but remember they lost a ton of money with the release of The Verdict with the Pledgemusic fallout. I think Todd mentioned it was 300k (probably more). Plus, they might still be paying off Geoff and/or Scott. But yes, they could have capitalized with the anniversaries and stuff like that.
yep,,,,,I believe Scott is still a partner on the LLC and was not bought out hence why he feels he can use the name etc, and he knows they have no money to stop him as was touched on a few pages back, who knows what contract Casey signed and when and I think Scotts moves where part of that equation, sadly IMO Todd has become defacto Geoff as far as cat hearding and doing most of the work ,nothing changed and I think history will say the break up was a disaster for the band, for Tate not as bad. again my opinion. I think this because this band was too old to break up, was doing well touring and had a loyal following. maybe Im wrong but they spent all the money on a bad divorce from Geoff who made out fine. the Todd QR is disposable as the old QR albums become more classic and celebrated IMO ..
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Sorry if this has been previously posted, but the band is releasing boxsets for Operation Mindcrime and Empire for those interested. Lots of content that most of us that are hardcore have seen or heard already but its Queensr˙che in the good old days. I personally will never tire of the 4 album stretch from Rage for Order to Promised Land. Nothing matches it for me personally by any band.
https://loudwire.com/queensryche-operation-mindcrime-empire-box-sets/
https://shop.udiscovermusic.com/collections/queensryche
thank you and welcome
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Parker has left the band. Which is a shame because I liked his writing contributions to the band especially where dreams go to die. Best of luck to him for whatever he does next.
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Huh…didn’t see that coming.
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Parker has left the band. Which is a shame because I liked his writing contributions to the band especially where dreams go to die. Best of luck to him for whatever he does next.
Interesting.
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Best of luck to him for whatever he does next.
Sounds like what he does next is the reason why he left QR. From QR's Facebook:
Hello Queensryche Fans,
Parker Lundgren, guitarist for Queensryche, has recently decided to step down to pursue other business ventures, which he has become very invested in over the past couple of years. For over a decade it has been a great pleasure watching him evolve and flourish as a guitarist, song writer, and most importantly, a wonderful human being.
Parker will always be family to us and we wish him all the success in the world with his new endeavors.
Take hold, Brother!
__________________
For several years I have been deeply immersed in collecting and selling guitars, as well as rare and fascinating musical instruments. This passion led to the opening of my guitar store “Diablo Guitars” in 2019. Since then my business has grown and I recently acquired a storefront with a full service repair shop. In 2020 my wife and I opened “Lucky Devil Latte”, which has quickly expanded to multiple locations. With these new endeavors and ensuing responsibilities, my time to devote to Queensryche has become increasingly strained and I no longer am able to commit the time and focus it deserves.
For these reasons I have made the difficult decision to step down from my role as guitarist in Queensryche. I want to thank my friends, family, and fans for making the past 13 years an amazing journey. I wish nothing but the best for my fellow band members, crew and everyone who has supported us. I hope to have your continued support as I pursue new ventures.
Given that he's already filled in for Parker a few times, it's likely Mike Stone will get the gig again, I can understand why (they know him as a bandmate, he knows most of their material already, etc.). Nonetheless, it would be interesting to see if they could bring a bigger name guitarist into the fold instead which could have the benefit of giving them more visibility besides musical contributions. Obviously it would be great to see CDG finally return, but that's a pipe dream. Can't think of anybody off the top of my head that would be a good fit - can any of you?
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Simone Mularoni maybe? I don't know if he lives in the United States or not or if this could be interesting financially for him, but I think he could do a great job playing and also composing for Queensryche.
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Chris Degarmo? :neverusethis:
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How about a noname guitarist who would come cheap...like me? 😁😆
...sorry
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Yeah, fuck, I'll do it.
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Yeah, fuck, I'll do it.
That would be cool. Do it!
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Yeah, fuck, I'll do it.
That would be cool. Do it!
I need a career change. Now how do I go about this? :justjen
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But my guess for the next album is Wilton doing all guitars, a lot of compositions by La Torre/ Wilton and Stone as the second guitar player for the tour. I’m not expecting big surprises from them at this point.
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Can’t say I’m devastated by Parker leaving as, although he wasn’t terrible or anything, I wasn’t a huge fan of his but please not Mike Stone. I saw a show with him on guitar and he added nothing to the band, wasn’t a good fit at all imo.
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Can’t say I’m devastated by Parker leaving
:lol
Who on earth would be devastated?
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Yeah, fuck, I'll do it.
That would be cool. Do it!
I need a career change. Now how do I go about this? :justjen
The commute might be an issue :lol
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Yeah, fuck, I'll do it.
That would be cool. Do it!
I need a career change. Now how do I go about this? :justjen
The commute might be an issue :lol
There is indeed a few variables against me. :lol
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The drama is better than the music.... love the spin on this one by the "band" ,Id be shocked if Stone isnt the touring guitarist..
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As much as a love classic QR, man these guys are a bit of a clusterfuck at the moment.
Last 3 albums were good but not great to me. Certainly better than what came before for many years, but still nothing special.
Maybe it's time to consider retiring?
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I remember reading, probably from this thread that Parker owns a music store and if the business is good I understand. I wish him the best for future endeavours.
They're playing in three days in Oregon, I guess they'll be bringing in Mike Stone for now.
Huh, their website has no notice of Parker's departure, in fact the latest news article is from February 2020. :lol
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As much as a love classic QR, man these guys are a bit of a clusterfuck at the moment.
Last 3 albums were good but not great to me. Certainly better than what came before for many years, but still nothing special.
Maybe it's time to consider retiring?
There's still money to be made, I guess. And I think it won't be long until Todd becomes an established solo artist OR joins a supergroup which will become his main occupation.
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I don't really consider this to be an issue. The stuff with Scott is different. But with this, it's just a guy leaving the band and both sides are respectful to each other about it. Maybe there's drama behind the scenes - wouldn't surprise me either way - but for now anyway, it's being handled well.
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I remember reading, probably from this thread that Parker owns a music store and if the business is good I understand. I wish him the best for future endeavours.
They're playing in three days in Oregon, I guess they'll be bringing in Mike Stone for now.
Huh, their website has no notice of Parker's departure, in fact the latest news article is from February 2020. :lol
The other business was a coffee shop and it's grown to three locations. Good for him. On another note, let's see how the new QR album pans out. I can't deny I'm intrigued. I've quite enjoyed their last 3 albums and TLT solo album. Could this be their "live or die" album as QR?
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I remember reading, probably from this thread that Parker owns a music store and if the business is good I understand. I wish him the best for future endeavours.
They're playing in three days in Oregon, I guess they'll be bringing in Mike Stone for now.
Huh, their website has no notice of Parker's departure, in fact the latest news article is from February 2020. :lol
The other business was a coffee shop and it's grown to three locations. Good for him. On another note, let's see how the new QR album pans out. I can't deny I'm intrigued. I've quite enjoyed their last 3 albums and TLT solo album. Could this be their "live or die" album as QR?
Other bands have carried on with less original members than QR, so I believe we will still see many releases from them.
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I remember reading, probably from this thread that Parker owns a music store and if the business is good I understand. I wish him the best for future endeavours.
They're playing in three days in Oregon, I guess they'll be bringing in Mike Stone for now.
Huh, their website has no notice of Parker's departure, in fact the latest news article is from February 2020. :lol
The other business was a coffee shop and it's grown to three locations. Good for him. On another note, let's see how the new QR album pans out. I can't deny I'm intrigued. I've quite enjoyed their last 3 albums and TLT solo album. Could this be their "live or die" album as QR?
Other bands have carried on with less original members than QR, so I believe we will still see many releases from them.
Heck, I recently saw a story about Quiet Riot touring. Zero original members. Zero members I could even name. Frankie would have been the only one and he is gone.
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I remember reading, probably from this thread that Parker owns a music store and if the business is good I understand. I wish him the best for future endeavours.
They're playing in three days in Oregon, I guess they'll be bringing in Mike Stone for now.
Huh, their website has no notice of Parker's departure, in fact the latest news article is from February 2020. :lol
The other business was a coffee shop and it's grown to three locations. Good for him. On another note, let's see how the new QR album pans out. I can't deny I'm intrigued. I've quite enjoyed their last 3 albums and TLT solo album. Could this be their "live or die" album as QR?
Other bands have carried on with less original members than QR, so I believe we will still see many releases from them.
Heck, I recently saw a story about Quiet Riot touring. Zero original members. Zero members I could even name. Frankie would have been the only one and he is gone.
Now that shows exactly who owns the band. And it wasn't the band members.
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I don't really consider this to be an issue. The stuff with Scott is different. But with this, it's just a guy leaving the band and both sides are respectful to each other about it. Maybe there's drama behind the scenes - wouldn't surprise me either way - but for now anyway, it's being handled well.
Me either. From what we know, Parker had started a business on his off time from Queensryche, it got huge and expanded and needs more of Parker's attention and focus.
So, being wise, he chose to give his full priority to the business rather than the band. Which isn't bad at all, it's just h
The direction that Parker's life ended up routing to.
Now, the band Queensryche is in shambles, and I feel it's slowly falling apart while they're desperately clutching the cornerstone.
I don't enjoy their newer albums, as I feel they're too short and don't really breathe much in terms of songwriting, they have quick and over with short songs.
The Verdict is the closest to that classic Queensryche sound but not quite there either. If they do a new album, it's going to be the deal breaker for a lot of people, I feel.
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I don't really consider this to be an issue. The stuff with Scott is different. But with this, it's just a guy leaving the band and both sides are respectful to each other about it. Maybe there's drama behind the scenes - wouldn't surprise me either way - but for now anyway, it's being handled well.
Its about how they have no money, its about signing stone to a contract for less money. It could be that Todd demanded more money and it squeezed Parker out and its also about signing Casey before coming to a touring agreement with the now active Scott,,,I dont see any of this ending well
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I don't really consider this to be an issue. The stuff with Scott is different. But with this, it's just a guy leaving the band and both sides are respectful to each other about it. Maybe there's drama behind the scenes - wouldn't surprise me either way - but for now anyway, it's being handled well.
Its about how they have no money, its about signing stone to a contract for less money. It could be that Todd demanded more money and it squeezed Parker out and its also about signing Casey before coming to a touring agreement with the now active Scott,,,I dont see any of this ending well
That is I think the biggest pickle the band is dealing with. And I feel that decision to tour and continue making music without Scott is a big business blunder. And it made Scott more upset.
:corn :corn
Who knew Quessnryche, the thinking man's band, would be involved in the best soap opera better than Days of Our Lives. :biggrin:
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If they do a new album, it's going to be the deal breaker for a lot of people, I feel.
Eh, I don't think so. People have been saying "the next album is going to be a deal breaker" forever. I think most fans likely fall into something similar to these two categories: (1) those who will buy anything that has the Queensryche name on it no matter what; and (2) those who have liked the band's output enough that they will keep listening to whatever comes out, and if they like it enough, will add it to the collection and keep plugging along as fans for as long as the band keeps plugging along as a band.
For me, unless something drastic happened, I was done with this band as of D2C. The music had become so bad, and the Tates' control and resulting destruction of what the band was, had reached a point where I wasn't planning on buying anything else from them barring something huge happening. I wasn't expecting them to oust Tate, but it was going to take a MAJOR change in direction from where they had been headed. Shockingly, they did just that by firing Tate and getting back to their sonic roots, with a modern edge. The first two Todd albums legitimately wowed me, even if they were less than perfect. I liked The Verdict a lot less than those two, but it was still a good album. That's my long-winded explanation for why I am in the latter category. They fell from my "favorite" band a long time ago, and I don't see them ever even getting back near the top 5. But I have generally liked what they have been doing, from a musical perspective. I'm really disappointed that they haven't come close to what I would consider the bare minimum of reaching their potential. They have squandered a ton of good will and a ton of opportunities due to, what appears to be nothing more than laziness and lack of drive. But yet, they continue plugging along putting out decent music. I get enjoyment from that music, even if I simultaneously find it disappointing. So I will keep plugging along and listening, and will likely enjoy what they put out enough to buy it.
I'm bummed to see Parker gone, but I get why he is doing what he is doing. It's hard enough to make a living in the music business. And he's not a young guy anymore. But he is younger and has a longer work life ahead of him than Michael and Ed. I doubt he sees QR as a long-term career, and he would be right. On one hand, you have the above-mentioned lack of motivation to rise above their current B-level nostalgia act status. And on the other hand, you have the fact that they simply will not likely continue as an entity for the length of time that would make it worthwhile for a younger guy like Parker to be able to sustain himself to retirement. I totally get why he would want to devote his time and efforts to something that would support him long-term. I'm just sad to see him gone and will likely miss his contributions. It will be interesting to see who steps in. If it ends up being stone, I think that will simultaneously be (1) a completely logical move, and one that is "easy"; and (2) ruinous to the quality of their sound and songwriting. But I will reserve judgment and wait and see.
But I also don't see any "drama" or "soap opera" in any of this either. Unless there is something going on that hasn't been disclosed, there doesn't appear to be any drama. Just more rumors and stirring the pot by Epicview when there is nothing to stir.
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Its a big mess for this band , this again shows how over it really is and Todd does all the writing and calls all the shots and if they dont appease Todd he will walk . like I said they all did much better financially before the split,
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this again shows how over it really is and Todd does all the writing and calls all the shots and if they dont appease Todd he will walk . like I said they all did much better financially before the split,
It doesn't show anything of the sort. Quit trolling and stick to facts.
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One fact I know (see, bosk, facts there) is that both OM1 and Empire have recently been released in deluxe box set form. Last week actually.
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this again shows how over it really is and Todd does all the writing and calls all the shots and if they dont appease Todd he will walk . like I said they all did much better financially before the split,
It doesn't show anything of the sort. Quit trolling and stick to facts.
Boss it does... Parker is gone because they could get Stone to tour for less..this is on the heals off the Scott R tiff. This isnt good, . The facts are the bands a total hot mess, not sure what else they are other than drama and a mess, the music is a subjective call, but any band Id call a hot mess that has this much going on negative and what i saw of the current lineup didnt sound good to me ( IMO my subjective ears, )
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its funny I was discussing this sort of issue with friends and older bands that are at the end, The old popular bands should have a "CERTIFIED COVER BAND" made by the band and hand crafter to be them take over and tour as the bands experience and tour for that band
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Boss it does... Parker is gone because they could get Stone to tour for less..
Do you have any evidence for this claim? It contradicts the statements given by both Parker and the band.
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I don't really consider this to be an issue. The stuff with Scott is different. But with this, it's just a guy leaving the band and both sides are respectful to each other about it. Maybe there's drama behind the scenes - wouldn't surprise me either way - but for now anyway, it's being handled well.
Its about how they have no money, its about signing stone to a contract for less money. It could be that Todd demanded more money and it squeezed Parker out and its also about signing Casey before coming to a touring agreement with the now active Scott,,,I dont see any of this ending well
That is I think the biggest pickle the band is dealing with. And I feel that decision to tour and continue making music without Scott is a big business blunder. And it made Scott more upset.
:corn :corn
Who knew Quessnryche, the thinking man's band, would be involved in the best soap opera better than Days of Our Lives. :biggrin:
I agree this is to my point its a hot mess.. Im sure they signed Casey to tour then Scott popped up and said "Im back" we know Casey is tight with Todd and Im sure Todd and Scott dont really get along well as Im sure Scotts ego was bruised by Todd doing the drums on the Verdict. I also think Todd has all the leverage now as they simply cant have him just walk out so its really "what does Todd want" and it sure looks like Todd is the spokesman of the band, Parker left over money if he could make more in the band he'd have stayed, didnt Parker at one time work at a motorcycle dealership like 2 years ago to make extra cash? so cash is an issue here, Stone to me is not as good as Parker so I hope hes improved its not like they are bringing in a real name here and paying more.
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Looks like the only soap opera drama is the stuff being invented in this thread. Some of you could be pretty good writers for dramas.
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I’ll stir the pot by saying it’s interesting the bands Facebook header photo is just Todd and no band.
Continue on.
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Boss it does... Parker is gone because they could get Stone to tour for less..
Do you have any evidence for this claim? It contradicts the statements given by both Parker and the band.
.
Their statements didnt say much but were couched in nice tones that hes leaving to do his guitar shop and wifes latte shop. a month ago when Stone filled in the rumors were it was "normal" that Parker just couldnt make it, to me it looks like He couldnt get a contract done as he is an employee along with Todd and Casey. again "its drama" thats a fact. to me the band is just so watered down and if you like the new stuff even that guitarist is now gone and the touring drummer is on none of the new stuff
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I’ll stir the pot by saying it’s interesting the bands Facebook header photo is just Todd and no band.
Continue on.
LOL really?
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I’ll stir the pot by saying it’s interesting the bands Facebook header photo is just Todd and no band.
Continue on.
While this might be technically true, it’s extremely misleading. They’ve been posting photos of Todd and Michael working together on the new album collaboratively. I think they’re down in Florida.
You guys could write scripts for “reality television“ because this is exactly what those guys do.
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I’ll stir the pot by saying it’s interesting the bands Facebook header photo is just Todd and no band.
Continue on.
While this might be technically true, it’s extremely misleading. They’ve been posting photos of Todd and Michael working together on the new album collaboratively. I think they’re down in Florida.
You guys could write scripts for “reality television“ because this is exactly what those guys do.
all ya have to do is list the facts with this band it makes great reality tv LOL
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Boss it does... Parker is gone because they could get Stone to tour for less..
Do you have any evidence for this claim? It contradicts the statements given by both Parker and the band.
Exactly. Epicview, what you posted contradicts everything that everyone else is saying. You have been warned before about posting misinformation and asserting that misinformation as fact. This forum is not a place to perpetuate false rumors about any band. And since you continue to ignore warnings about that and act like a troll, you are being given a final warning and 1 week temp ban.
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I'll miss Geoff Tate over the coming week.
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Wow, that blew up quickly. Here's my .02:
Not sure why people are reading into this more than what it is. Parker stepped down, Stone stepped in to help, and whether he stays permanently or someone else joins, remains to be seen. It's not really a big deal at this stage. Stone knows the material and has filled in for Parker previously, so to me, it was a no-brainer to have him step in again.
As for Parker's reasons why he left the band -- again, not sure why people wouldn't take it at face value. The pandemic changed the way a LOT of people have viewed life and how they are living it. He's decided to move in a different direction. So congratulations to Parker and thanks for a hell of a good run (12+ years) in the band. Out of all three people that have stood in DeGarmo's shoes, he's the one I felt really made an effort to "get it right" and whose changes to some parts to fit his individual style were done in such a way that they felt seamless. Honestly, I think Queensryche fans should be thanking Parker, not questioning the "whys" behind his departure.
Looking ahead, I think Queensryche continues on the way it has. I don't view their next record as anything different than the one before it, other than wondering if it could be their last. Wilton and Jackson aren't getting younger. As for who writes the record, I'm sure it will be the same as the last few -- La Torre/Jackson/Wilton for the majority, either together or separate, or a combination of two of the three. I wouldn't expect them to rock the apple cart from a stylistic perspective. Queensryche is a business. It has always been, but after the split with Tate, it absolutely is about locking in the fans and the market that support them, and making sure the music falls in the wheelhouse of those fans. I'm sure they will have a track or two that spreads its creative wings a little bit, but other than that, I'd expect 90 percent of the record to be in the same vein as The Verdict and Condition Human. My guess would be that Wilton will do all the guitars on the record, and if he wants a partner, perhaps Stone will do some rhythms. But you really don't need a second guitarist in the studio. I guess we'll see.
Anyway, congrats again to Parker Lundgren. When he joined the band in 2009, I was one of the ones screaming "NEPOTISM!" And it clearly was, at the time. But Parker showed EVERYONE that he is a great guitarist in his own right, did right by DeGarmo's material, did right by the fans, and also developed his songwriting. He EARNED that spot next to Wilton, and I for one really came to appreciate the kind of work he put into his craft. I saw it first hand, pre-show, as he sat in the dressing room playing the set on his guitar to warm up (listening to the songs on his laptop). So if his future is in his guitar business and coffee shops, then good for him. Glad he is happy, and I wish him the best.
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As for Parker's reasons why he left the band -- again, not sure why people wouldn't take it at face value.
...
So if his future is in his guitar business and coffee shops, then good for him. Glad he is happy, and I wish him the best.
Amen, Brother!
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... congratulations to Parker and thanks for a hell of a good run (12+ years) in the band. Out of all three people that have stood in DeGarmo's shoes, he's the one I felt really made an effort to "get it right" and whose changes to some parts to fit his individual style were done in such a way that they felt seamless. Honestly, I think Queensryche fans should be thanking Parker, not questioning the "whys" behind his departure.
Totally this! :tup
Also, zero drama on this.
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I'll miss Geoff Tate over the coming week.
:lol
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Can’t say I’m devastated by Parker leaving
:lol
Who on earth would be devastated?
I was probably a little harsh there. What I meant really was that Parker leaving is not “the final straw” or anything. He did a job in QR and was a better fit than all of the other DeGarmo replacements but I didn’t really see him as a killer guitar player and had no huge attachment to him in the band.
It sounds like it’s all amicable though and that he has made a decision that’s good for him and his family and that’s awesome, I wish him well. I just wish Stone wasn’t the replacement.
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It sounds like it’s all amicable though and that he has made a decision that’s good for him and his family and that’s awesome, I wish him well. I just wish Stone wasn’t the replacement.
Well, to be fair, we don't know if Stone is "the replacement." I would assume he'll likely play the 2021 shows QR has scheduled. But as the band rolls into a new album, and then (again assuming) sets out on a fresh tour in support of it, they'd have ample opportunity to select someone else if Stone is unable or unwilling to join them full time. Stone's a great dude, and he's been doing his thing all this time, so depending on what his schedule is, it might be too early to think he'll be a permanent replacement. Fly-ins are generally easy. Tour legs of a month or more can be harder for a non-full time musician who may have other responsibilities.
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It sounds like it’s all amicable though and that he has made a decision that’s good for him and his family and that’s awesome, I wish him well. I just wish Stone wasn’t the replacement.
Well, to be fair, we don't know if Stone is "the replacement." I would assume he'll likely play the 2021 shows QR has scheduled. But as the band rolls into a new album, and then (again assuming) sets out on a fresh tour in support of it, they'd have ample opportunity to select someone else if Stone is unable or unwilling to join them full time. Stone's a great dude, and he's been doing his thing all this time, so depending on what his schedule is, it might be too early to think he'll be a permanent replacement. Fly-ins are generally easy. Tour legs of a month or more can be harder for a non-full time musician who may have other responsibilities.
A number of people commented on FB that he is indeed a permanent replacement in various conversations in the wake of their M3 performance on July 3, but I have not seen anything that resembles that.
Speaking of M3, I was there and it took all of two minutes or so to remind me why I hope it isn't the case. The idea of listening to Mike Stone shit all over another solo will be a deal-breaker for me seeing them live again. I was really hoping Parker would have given the fans one final "farewell" performance at M3.
Interesting side note to the M3 performance. At no point did TLT introduce Mike Stone to the audience. He introduced Casey and Whip early in the set and EdBass during the intro to Jet City Woman. At no point did he mention Mike's name to the audience.
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Interesting side note to the M3 performance. At no point did TLT introduce Mike Stone to the audience. He introduced Casey and Whip early in the set and EdBass during the intro to Jet City Woman. At no point did he mention Mike's name to the audience.
That's weird. I would have thought that he's say something, like "And you guys know Mike Stone, right? He's helping us out tonight..." Something like that, that could be very noncommital.
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That IS kinda of odd for sure.
Perhaps TLT just forgot. I think he's introduced Stone before.
As for the commentary on FB, ::)
We all know how that works. :lol
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I thought Stone was alright when I saw them on the OM2 tour. Surprising as I've never been a big fan.
I'd take him over Kelly Gray though, anytime.
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I thought Stone was alright when I saw them on the OM2 tour. Surprising as I've never been a big fan.
I'd take him over Kelly Gray though, anytime.
If those were my only choices, I'd choose saving my money...
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They just played a headline show, and it's back to playing only the classics after the Verdict's headline tour in 2019/early 2020, where they played a few more newer songs. 18 songs and only ONE song from the last three albums. Five from Mindcrime, four from Empire, three from RFO, three from the EP (including Prophecy), and one from Promised Land.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/2021/seven-feathers-casino-resort-canyonville-or-638ff623.html
The Needle Lies
Walk in the Shadows
The Prophecy
Blood of the Levant
I Am I
Another Rainy Night (Without You)
Breaking the Silence
I Don't Believe in Love
The Whisper
The Lady Wore Black
Silent Lucidity
Jet City Woman
Take Hold of the Flame
Queen of the Reich
Eyes of a Stranger
Encore:
Operation: Mindcrime
Screaming in Digital
Empire
:tdwn
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I would never ever pay money for that.
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See recent post regarding "nostalgia act."
Not a bad selection of songs. And pretty balanced in terms of "hits" for the casual fans and "old school classics" for the die-hards. But the lack of effort to support the new material is telling, and I do not mean that as a compliment.
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I would not pay the money to see that setlist. If you aren't going to support your recent releases with your current singer, then don't expect me to support you in a live setting. I'm not interested in nothing but a greatest hits tour from them, which seems to be all they are capable of.
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That's too bad.. I happen to like the Verdict and CH.....
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You all know I'm in favor of bands supporting their latest material. That said, however, I'll play devil's advocate on this and point out the following: It was a casino headline show in-between album cycles. Not a headline show in support of an album. That does make a difference.
I'm not saying that as a hardcore I would be pleased at the song selection - I'm not. But I do somewhat understand it. It's a set full of classic tunes, balanced with a couple for the hardcores and one of their favorites from the last album. All in all, not ideal, but I think it's sorta what they've shown that they do for these fly-in gigs.
If I was a casual fan in a casino, and saw that Queensryche was there that day and went and saw that setlist, I don't think I'd be disappointed in the songs they chose. And for casino gigs, that's who they are targeting -- casual fans of the band who remember the stuff from Empire, Mindcrime, and a couple of old classics.
I think the days of Queensryche as they were from 1982-2009 (EP tour through American Soldier tour), where they featured five or six new songs from their latest record are long gone. Starting with Dedicated to Chaos, they pretty much have played just a couple of their latest songs and that has been it. It has been the reality of the band since then. When their new album comes out, they'll probably swap in some new songs and play three of them in place of Blood of the Levant and a couple of the others. And then swap out a couple of the more rare stuff for a couple of other seldom-played tunes. But I wouldn't expect more than that. That's pretty much been status quo since 2011.
It's not what those of us posting in this thread likely want (because while not all of us are hardcores, we're more into live music I think in comparison to those attending casino gigs), but it's probably the best for the audiences they play for at these fly-in dates between album cycles.
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I was going to post just that as well, that they do intentionally book these shows at festivals and casinos where the setlists are pretty much required to be the old, popular songs. I honestly think they should have two sets rehearsed - one for festivals/casinos and one for their own headline shows. They can then tailor each set to that audience and have the headline set feature newer material, rather than playing the same songs and just cutting a few out based on the time limit.
It just drives me bonkers that for the last 9 (!) years, there has been too much of a reliance on older songs, having become a fan of the band in the HITNF/Q2K era and knowing that they used to play so much of their current albums live. I do like that headline set, it's fairly metal as hell for them, but I just know that they have more material that they could rotate in and out if they wanted to.
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See recent post regarding "nostalgia act."
Not a bad selection of songs. And pretty balanced in terms of "hits" for the casual fans and "old school classics" for the die-hards. But the lack of effort to support the new material is telling, and I do not mean that as a compliment.
This!
That's too bad.. I happen to like the Verdict and CH.....
And this (plus the s/t album, which is also great)!
Lame lame lame. They had the opportunity to break free of the Taters and their garbage and all they do is go the nostalgia route. FAIL! :tdwn
You all know I'm in favor of bands supporting their latest material. That said, however, I'll play devil's advocate on this and point out the following: It was a casino headline show in-between album cycles. Not a headline show in support of an album. That does make a difference.
True, but only ONE single track from the last decade? If it was one track from each of their last three, I could find that at least acceptable, but only one is piss poor.
Good thing that Tater insisted that only he could do O:M all the way through after the split, or else I fear the band themselves would be riding on those coattails more than any of us would have ever imagined. :\
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Yeah, that's a disappointing set.
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I'd also be kind of disappointed with that setlist had I been at the show. I'd like to see more new stuff, less Mindcrime, and more of the old stuff being in the rotation. Samsara makes a good point about it being a casino show though. And, a big part of the draw with Todd is that he can sing the old stuff, and sing it well. I know he isn't perfect, and I've seen the youtube evidence, but he's certainly been good whenever I've seen him in person.
Last time I saw them they pulled out No Sanctuary, which was awesome and I was happy enough with just that that I don't really remember what I thought of the rest of the setlist.
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I don’t know if anyone noticed, but I decided to check Scott’s Facebook page this morning and that link no longer exists. In fact his most recent entry still on the page is from 2013. It would appear that all other more recent posts have been deleted.
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I don’t know if anyone noticed, but I decided to check Scott’s Facebook page this morning and that link no longer exists. In fact his most recent entry still on the page is from 2013. It would appear that all other more recent posts have been deleted.
Interesting. Could be a variety of reasons. Without speculating, I'd say that stuff being down was likely for the best anyway.
Cover reveal for Building An Empire: The Story of Queensryche is tomorrow. (Along with some release date info, and the different versions that will be available.) I'll post it here for those interested as soon as the press release goes out.
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:metal
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For those interested, this was just sent out a couple minutes ago:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 21, 2021
Contact: NW Metalworx Music, LLC
nwmetalworxmusic@gmail.com
Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che to Publish in October
Pre-orders Slated for August 2021
TACOMA, WASHINGTON — NW Metalworx Music will release Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che, this coming October. After 40 years, Queensr˙che's career-spanning story will finally be told, covering the band's earliest roots in suburban Seattle, the group's rise to arena-level success, downfall, and rebirth. Featured on the book's cover is a previously unseen photo of Queensr˙che's original lineup of Chris DeGarmo, Eddie Jackson, Scott Rockenfield, Geoff Tate, and Michael Wilton, taken by photographer Robert John at the height of the quintet's stardom.
Written by James R. Beach, with Brian L. Naron and Brian J. Heaton, the book will be issued in various formats―a limited edition collector's hardcover, a standard paperback, and an electronic version that can be downloaded as a standalone .pdf, or purchased for the Amazon Kindle. The hardcover edition will feature a CD of rare audio interviews with Queensr˙che and an exclusive poster. Pre-orders will start in August on nwmetalworxmusic.com, and later on Amazon.com and other online retail sites.
“We're excited to finally publish the definitive story of Queensr˙che,” James Beach said. “After providing fans with 40 years of great music, we're delighted to help celebrate the band's success by telling its rich history.”
Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che examines how the band evolved from album to album, weaving new interviews with the band members' family and friends to help tell this honest, riveting tale of how five guys from Seattle's Eastside overcame the odds to become one of the most respected bands in hard rock and heavy metal. Paul Suter, the acclaimed writer from Kerrang! who broke the story on Queensr˙che in early 1983, penned the book's Foreword.
“When starting on this project, our goal was to write something everyone, from the hardcore fan to the casual listener, could read and learn something new about Queensr˙che,” said Brian Naron. “We're confident we've achieved that and can't wait to share this with the world.”
“The story of Queensr˙che has so many twists and turns and it needed to be unraveled,” Heaton adds. “At the same time, we wanted to do that with an emphasis on the band's knack for persevering through every obstacle thrown at them. Queensr˙che is an undeniable success and we hope our words encourage readers to further appreciate the band's music.”
(https://anybodylistening.net/images/BuildingAnEmpireCover.jpg)
To say we're excited is the understatement of the year. :metal
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Fantastic cover! Great photo and font. I'm really looking forward to this. :tup
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Fantastic cover! Great photo and font. I'm really looking forward to this. :tup
Thanks Mike!
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More like Building An Anticipation! :metal :metal
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More like Building An Anticipation! :metal :metal
Thanks T. Cover photo is something that until now was unpublished. Taken by Robert John. It is from the shoot that produced that iconic Empire poster so many saw or had/have. The cover was designed by Cyrus Wraith Walker based on an idea by co-author Brian Naron.
Really looking forward to seeing/hearing folks' reactions once the book is out. What I really appreciated about this project was that it was truly a team effort. That gets said a lot, but its 100 percent accurate here. James takes the main byline because he wrote the initial cut. Then I came in and re-wrote sections, added a ton of detail, edited chapters, etc. And Brian Naron wrote a bit, and was the primary researcher on the book. First time the three of us have worked together and we really felt we nailed what we set out to do -- write the definitive tome on Queensryche. We're pretty proud of it.
Hope you'll all check it out once it is available. I'll post up pre-order information next month and then the definitive release date (and book signings for those of you in the Pacific Northwest) once we have it. Likely mid-October.
B
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When is the Northeast book tour?
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Fantastic cover! Great photo and font. I'm really looking forward to this. :tup
All of this, I can't wait to read it. I'm not even a big QR fan but the drama behind this band is too good to pass up.
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Looks good.
Which Brian are you Samsara? :laugh:
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Congrats on the project, should be a great read!
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Looks great. Not usually big on books and autobiographies but wouldn't mind checking this one out. Well done Brian.
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Really looking forward to this Brian. Very cool that you got Paul Suter to write the Foreward.
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So I was just thinking - if the guys were to add 5 songs from the HitNF through D2C era, what tracks would you prefer to see? Yes, I know it will never happen, and I know that a bunch of you will say everything from that era is crap and so the answer is "nothing", but for those of you that did enjoy at least part of that era of the band, how would you answer? Try picking from at least 3 different albums. I'm curious to see what you guys think would be worth resurrecting by the current band.
For me, it would be:
spOOL
Liquid Sky
Right Side of My Mind
Re-arrange You
Rhythm of Hope
Honorable mention:
Hit the Black
Open
Desert Dance
The Hands
A Dead Man's Words
At the Edge
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WTF? You expect me to be able to just rattle off 5 songs from that era? :lol
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So I was just thinking - if the guys were to add 5 songs from the HitNF through D2C era, what tracks would you prefer to see? Yes, I know it will never happen, and I know that a bunch of you will say everything from that era is crap and so the answer is "nothing", but for those of you that did enjoy at least part of that era of the band, how would you answer? Try picking from at least 3 different albums. I'm curious to see what you guys think would be worth resurrecting by the current band.
For me, it would be:
spOOL
Liquid Sky
Right Side of My Mind
Re-arrange You
Rhythm of Hope
Honorable mention:
Hit the Black
Open
Desert Dance
The Hands
A Dead Man's Words
At the Edge
I would be happy with 5 out of these 12 (edited - I forgot HitNF! :facepalm:):
You, Miles Away, Falling Down, Right side..., Desert Dance, The Art of Life, I'm American, Hostage, Unafraid, At 3,000 ft, In the Hands of God and Running Backwards (yes, I went there and no, I dind't forget Dedicated... ;D)
Sincerely I like a lot those songs and I could pick more 2 from each album easily.
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Personally, I would prefer a set devoted entirely to the HitNF through D2C era rather than the current setlist because it would at least be something different. All of these albums have their moments but my picks would be You, Chasing Blue Sky, The Voice Inside, Right Side of My Mind, Howl, A Dead Man's Words, Hundred Mile Stare, Hostage, Re-Arrange You, and All the Promises.
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WTF? You expect me to be able to just rattle off 5 songs from that era? :lol
:lol
I'll try;
Open
Tribe
Right Side of My Mind
Sign of the Times
You
I'd probably add a song perhaps off AS and OM2 but I can't remember a thing about their of them.
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The Right Side of My Mind
Art of Life
Some People Fly
The Hands
spOOl
EDIT - I think that would be my top 5 from that era in order
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Open
Hostage
When The Rain Comes
Chasing Blue Skies
Justified
The Art Of Life would follow and You still gets crazy.
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So I was just thinking - if the guys were to add 5 songs from the HitNF through D2C era, what tracks would you prefer to see? Yes, I know it will never happen, and I know that a bunch of you will say everything from that era is crap and so the answer is "nothing", but for those of you that did enjoy at least part of that era of the band, how would you answer? Try picking from at least 3 different albums. I'm curious to see what you guys think would be worth resurrecting by the current band.
Cool thread.
For me:
spOOL
Howl
The Art of Life
Hostage (with Whip's original solo)
A Dead Man's Words
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Sign Of The Times
spOOl
Falling Down
Right Side Of My Mind
Open
That's five tracks from 3 different records. I could add I'm American and Remember Me from the other two records. I've never really heard D2C, so no track from there.
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Hit The Black
Reach
Howl
Tribe
Right Side of My Mind
Honorable mention to How Could I? because that song has grown on me a lot lately.
And also, as Samsara mentioned, the original version of Hostage.
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This is a very interesting question. I'd probably go with:
Sign of the Times
SpOOl
Liquid Sky
The Right Side of My Mind
Tribe
Only picking 5 songs is kind of tricky - as an overall album listening experience, I'd say Tribe is my favorite of the HitNF-D2C run, with Hear close second. But I really enjoy Liquid Sky and Right Side from Q2K, so it ends being a bit over-represented in this small list.
Honorable mentions below (indeed, Tribe has a bunch):
Saved
(this song is an example of how frustrating of an album HitNF can be - there are portions that I find fantastic, like the "river" parts, or the ending...and then the Save me! parts are borderline grating...)
You
Sacred Ground
Open
The Great Divide
Rhythm of Hope
Blood
Hostage
The Hands
At 30,000 ft
American Soldier is an album I enjoyed and listened to a fair bit when it came out, but I haven't revisited a whole lot in the last few years. It's generally a cool concept, but not many songs ended up having great staying power...
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Tribe is such a great album. I never quite understood the criticism.
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QR should go for the ultimate troll move and play something off Frequency Unknown. ;)
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QR should go for the ultimate troll move and play something off Frequency Unknown. ;)
That would be cold!! ;) :D
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QR should go for the ultimate troll move and play something off Frequency Unknown. ;)
That would be cold!! ;) :D
They'd have to perform it with half the studio parts and backing vocals playing pre-recorded through the house P/A to do it proper justice. ;)
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My 5 picks:
The Voice Inside
Reach
Right Side of My Mind
Hostage
Dead Man's Words
I'm not sure why anyone would have Open and Dead Man's Words in the same set. Why would they play the same song twice? ???
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QR should go for the ultimate troll move and play something off Frequency Unknown. ;)
That would be cold!! ;) :D
I see what you did there :lol
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my picks:
Sign Of The Times
Spool
The Right Side Of My Mind
Blood
The Hands
honourable mentions:
When The Rain Comes
Open
The Great Divide
The Art Of Life
Hostage
Re-Arrange You
Murderer
A Junkie's Blues
Fear City Slide
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My 5 picks:
spOOl
You
The Art of Life
Re-Arrange You
Dead Man's Words
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So I was just thinking - if the guys were to add 5 songs from the HitNF through D2C era, what tracks would you prefer to see?
sp00L
Saved
Reach
Open
Hostage (I'd love to hear this recorded to actually sound like Queensryche but the time has passed...).
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Blood
I would probably walk out of the show if this happened. And even as passive as Wilton is about most things, I doubt he would agree to play it.
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Looks like Mike Stone is there at least through the end of the year... I linked the article. Doesn't really say anything else.
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-confirms-mike-stone-will-continue-playing-with-band-through-at-least-end-of-2021/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-confirms-mike-stone-will-continue-playing-with-band-through-at-least-end-of-2021/)
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In theory, I like the idea of choosing songs from HITNF up to DTC for a comeback to the live shows. However, I wanted to be realistic by selecting songs that current band members had a hand in. That being said, the only song I was able to pick out was Reach. I'd also go with Hot spot junkie, if they did new lyrics to it. ;D
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So this is cool. A budding music filmmaker did a short documentary of Queensryche's original lineup, based on the historical essay I wrote about the band on AnybodyListening.net.
The YouTube version of the video is here: https://youtu.be/GZs1Mm0x8z0.
I did a short write-up (review/blog) on it here, which has a link to a director's cut version if you support it on the creator's Patreon: https://anybodylistening.net/queensrychedocumentary.html
I am not affiliated at all with this documentary, and I don't receive any money. The filmmaker was kind enough to credit my work as part of his inspiration for the film, but the documentary was made independently and I was not involved. I just think it's really good!
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Wow! I’ll check it out after work. That’s really cool!
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Cool news about that documentary. I've been looking for something new to watch, and I'll be sure to check this out over the weekend!
Also - did anyone ever actually buy/hear the 2021 remasters on vinyl? I can only find "reviews" on Amazon and most of them say that the albums sound bad or are the not so good 2003 remasters still. I never had Operation Mindcrime or Empire on vinyl and I'd really like to as they are great records and a big part of my music listening history. I just want to know if it's worth it. Even if anyone has a link to a credible review of the recent remasters - post it if you can.
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So this is cool. A budding music filmmaker did a short documentary of Queensryche's original lineup, based on the historical essay I wrote about the band on AnybodyListening.net.
The YouTube version of the video is here: https://youtu.be/GZs1Mm0x8z0.
Just watched. That's cool. Are you sure that's not you at the end speaking in an accent? ;D
Brings back a lot of memories.
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Also - did anyone ever actually buy/hear the 2021 remasters on vinyl? I can only find "reviews" on Amazon and most of them say that the albums sound bad or are the not so good 2003 remasters still. I never had Operation Mindcrime or Empire on vinyl and I'd really like to as they are great records and a big part of my music listening history. I just want to know if it's worth it. Even if anyone has a link to a credible review of the recent remasters - post it if you can.
I didn't purchase them, as I have the original Mindcrime on vinyl and the last reissue of Empire on vinyl. I would not be surprised, however, if those reviews are correct. It's not just one or two, it seems like most who pay attention to sound quality do not like what they heard. And the whole project (Empire 30th and the Mindcrime reissue) were done on the cheap - just repackaged existing stuff.
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I didn't purchase them, as I have the original Mindcrime on vinyl and the last reissue of Empire on vinyl. I would not be surprised, however, if those reviews are correct. It's not just one or two, it seems like most who pay attention to sound quality do not like what they heard. And the whole project (Empire 30th and the Mindcrime reissue) were done on the cheap - just repackaged existing stuff.
Thank you for the additional information and feedback. That's really too bad that these re-re-releases aren't of good quality. Now with two variations out there that aren't good, I can't imagine how difficult finding any original pressings might be.
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Whip selling some memorabilia (QR and non-QR)
https://www.ebay.com/sch/fromthevaults/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
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If you're in the Seattle area, consider joining us for this book signing event. Should be a great time!
October 23-24 at the Hotel America Snoqualmie. Queensryche plays on the 23rd up the road at the Snoqualmie Casino. So come get a book, check out all the great QR rarities, and then go see the gig!
Join us for S2k21 – A Queensr˙che Book Signing and Rarities Exposition on Saturday, October 23, and Sunday, October 24, at the Hotel America Snoqualmie (formerly the Snoqualmie Inn), in Snoqualmie, Washington. Queensr˙che will be performing at the Snoqualmie Casino down the road on the night of October 23, so stop in before the show, or after the gig on the following day, to check out and buy a copy of the band's first biography, Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che. Authors James R. Beach, Brian L. Naron and Brian J. Heaton will all be on-hand to sign your copy and talk about the book, Queensr˙che and Pacific Northwest metal history.
And as you're waiting to have your book autographed, you can peruse The R˙chean Arch˙ves, the legendary traveling museum of Queensr˙che rarities and artifacts that will be on display in a museum-like format throughout the 1,700 sq. ft. conference room. With rare audio and video of Queensr˙che playing in the background, this massive collection features pieces from some of the world's largest Queensr˙che collectors, who will also be on-hand to talk about the items. This massive curated collection was previously displayed a handful of times in conjunction with Queensr˙che's Seattle 98, 99, and 2001 (S98, S99, S2k1) fan club events, but hasn't seen the light of day in years!
In addition, these events often bring in special guests from the Pacific Northwest music and art scene, so NW Metalworx Music will also have a selection of its books and music available for purchase. You never know who may pop by and be willing to autograph. Don't miss out!
A 10-room block at a discounted rate ($179 per room for the first 10 rooms, $219 per room thereafter) has been established by the Hotel America Snoqualmie for this event. To book a room at the lower rate, you must CALL the hotel at (425) 363-3888 and mention the room block rate under “Brian Naron.” The discount will NOT work with online booking. The S2k21 Book Signing and Rarities Exposition will be held on Saturday, October 23 from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m., and Sunday, October 24, from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m.
Access to the book signing and R˙chean Arch˙ves is FREE. This is about sharing good times with fellow fans and enjoying the music of Queensryche. Come, hang out, talk about your favorite band and music and enjoy the atmosphere with friends. Then on Saturday night, head on down the road to the Snoqualmie Casino to rock with us as Queensr˙che takes the stage!
Look for the pre-orders for Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che to begin the week of August 23 on nwmetalworxmusic.com!
What: S2k21 – A Queensr˙che Book Signing and Rarities Exposition
When: Saturday, October 23 & Sunday, October 24
Where: Hotel America Snoqualmie, 35228 Snoqualmie Pkwy, Snoqualmie, WA 98065
Time: 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. (Saturday)/11 a.m. to 2 p.m. (Sunday)
Cost: Free!
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Wow! The Queensryche Convention.
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Wow! The Queensryche Convention.
The event Naron put on 20 yrs ago was awesome. Tons of rare QR stuff to check out. Essentially a traveling museum. While writing the book, I rediscovered some pics of his Rychean Archyves that I took. And we just figured why not do it again? It'll be fun and a nice addition to the signing.
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That sounds awesome. I'm not on social media....besides DTF ;D but I'd love to see what the scene looks like.
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Damn! If I were anywhere near the Washington State area, I'd be there. That's my birthday weekend. Would've been the perfect present to myself.
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That sounds awesome. I'm not on social media....besides DTF ;D but I'd love to see what the scene looks like.
I'll take pics. Naron doesn't have many because he was busy chatting and putting it on all the other times over the years. (and cellphone cameras arent like they are today.) So I'll make sure I take a bunch. Video too, as we're hoping to have some special guests pop in here and there both days.
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:tup
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For those of you interested in pre-ordering the Queensryche biography, we finally have the initial pre-orders available on nwmetalworxmusic.com. Amazon and all that will come later. The hardcover special edition version is unique to the nwmetalworxmusic.com site, however. Amazon will only have the paperback and kindle versions.
Here is the announcement and the link to pre-order. Thanks to those of you who expressed interest in wanting to get one. Hope you enjoy it.
Queensr˙che. A majestic name for a band that found itself at the pinnacle of rock and roll stardom thanks to the Grammy-nominated song “Silent Lucidity” in 1991. But how Queensr˙che got to the moutaintop, fell, and rose again to be labeled as one of heavy metal's most regal acts has never been told...until now.
Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che examines how the five original members of the band came together in the eastern suburbs of Seattle to create some of the most influential heavy metal albums of the 1980s, including the conceptual masterpiece Operation: Mindcrime. Discover how the band weathered the loss of key members, a changing industry at the turn of the century, a bitter lawsuit and numerous obstacles to continue a career that has spanned four decades and counting...
Written by James R. Beach, with Brian L. Naron and Brian J. Heaton, Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che examines how the band evolved from album to album, weaving interviews with the band members, managers, producers, peers, family and friends to help tell this honest, riveting tale of how five guys from Seattle's Eastside overcame the odds to become one of the most respected bands in hard rock and heavy metal. Paul Suter, the acclaimed writer from Kerrang! who broke the story on Queensr˙che in early 1983, penned the book's Foreword. Includes hundreds of rare photos and images throughout the band's career.
- Signed/Limited Edition hardcover of only 300 copies. Includes all full-color pages as well (paperback only has black and white pages). *EXCLUSIVE TO PRE-ORDER ONLY FOR THE HC WILL INCLUDE A BONUS INTERVIEW CD (Featuring 3 rare radio interviews from 1983, 1984 and `1997 with the band) AND POSTER.
(PRE-ORDER. ESTIMATED RELEASE DATE: OCTOBER 25, 2021.)
Link: www.nwmetalworxmusic.com
>>>>And for an update, we're up against our deadline. Last edits being done this week, designer does his thing this weekend and the following weekend, and then we proof it mid-September, and off to the printer toward the end of September.
I took a break from doing my final text and image edits. The three of us have been burning the midnight oil the last several days to get this done by Friday. :)
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Hi Brian! The link isn't work for me. Here is the message:
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access / on this server.
I tried to change the configuration of my google chrome, but nothing.
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I got the same thing.
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I got the same thing.
Me too.
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Come on, man! Help us give you our money!
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Thanks everyone. Yeah, we just found out there's something wonky going on and people can't access the site or order. I've alerted the appropriate folks. Not sure when it happened, because as of 11 p.m. Pacific last night, we were getting a bunch of orders (tons of hardcovers, which is really appreciated). I'll let you know when it is fixed. Bad timing. Which is always par for the course. :lol
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We're still working on the main website issue, but we also have a store page on the Storenvy site you can purchase the books from directly here:
https://www.storenvy.com/stores/783060-nw-metalworx-music
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Regular website back up and running to pre-order the book.
nwmetalworxmusic.com
Thanks for your interest everyone. I think we did Queensryche and all of us fans of the band, proud.
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Thanks everyone. Yeah, we just found out there's something wonky going on and people can't access the site or order.I've alerted the appropriate folks. Not sure when it happened, because as of 11 p.m. Pacific last night, we were getting a bunch of orders (tons of hardcovers, which is really appreciated). I'll let you know when it is fixed. Bad timing. Which is always par for the course. :lol
Rockenfield?
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Nope. Tate.
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Nope. Tate.
Of course.
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Apparently some band members and their representatives are saying they never knew about the book, and according to rumor, have asked fan groups and sites to stop talking about the book. :lol
So we've made a collective statement and posted it on the book's Facebook page to be crystal clear. I include it here, as I know some of those fan groups and such frequent this thread to see what's posted:
It has come to our attention that certain members and representatives of Queensryche are claiming that they never heard about our book until they found out on Blabbermouth. While we don't know what the band as a whole knew, or didn't know, we can say this: We reached out multiple times to the band through those who work for them inviting the band to take part. We never received a reply. In fact, one person who we interviewed for the book specifically asked permission of the band before agreeing to be interviewed. So to our knowledge, some members of the band absolutely knew about this project. In addition, we made it a point in our first press release about the book on December 30, 2020, that the book was an unauthorized account, just so readers knew that this wasn't an official release by Queensryche.
The bottom line is this: We (James Beach, Brian Naron and Brian Heaton) are lifelong fans of Queensryche, and have worked hard to tell the band's complete story with amazing detail, accuracy, and respect. This book isn't some dirt-dishing tell-all. It's a biography that tells their amazing story, album by album, tour after tour, year after year. We don't shy away from some of the more difficult years in Queensryche's past, but we don't dwell on them either. Our book about Queensryche was written with the word perseverance in mind – how the band continually faced obstacles, knocked them down, and has continued to stand proud for almost 40 years now.
We've written something we're immensely proud of that we feel has honored the band's amazing legacy, and is something all Queensryche fans will thoroughly enjoy. Thanks for your interest, and we look forward to your reactions once the book is released in October.
I'm not AT ALL surprised that the band is all of a sudden now saying they didn't know and allegedly trying to sway people not to talk about it. Because the book is actually here, generating sales (thanks everyone), and they probably aren't liking someone else making money. And to be clear, for folks who don't know how band biographies work, anyone is entitled to write a biography on a band. It doesn't have to have the group's blessing. In fact, most of the biographies on bands are done just this way -- by authors who are historians and collectors, etc.
Anyway, we wrote this book as a celebration of Queensryche and it is something that we are extremely proud of. And we feel once you read it (whether a hardcore fan or a casual one), and the band reads it, everyone will agree we've told their story in a respectful, classy manner.
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Nope. Tate.
[in my best Iago impression]
“I’m gonna have a heart attack and DIE from that surprise!”
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Hey everyone.
For those of you interested in our Queensryche biography, the paperback edition arrived from the printer this week!
(https://anybodylistening.net/images/paperback-boxes.jpg)
These will start shipping on Monday (10/18). The hardcovers are due back from the printer in mid-November (these take a bit more time, as they have a dust jacket, full color glossy pages, etc.)
If you'd like to order the paperback now that it is in stock, you can at nwmetalworxmusic.com. In the next month, it'll be on Amazon (at a slightly higher price than our pre-order price), along with the Kindle versions.
350+ pages
Tons of images of rare posters, items, gigs, etc.
It's the definitive story told respectfully and in a celebratory manner.
Thanks to all of you who expressed support and interest in this project. It has been very rewarding and pre-orders have sold incredibly well. So much appreciated to you all who trusted us to deliver something good and put in an order. We hope you will like it!
Any of you up in the Pacific Northwest, our book signing is at the Hotel America Snoqualmie on 10/23 & 10/24. Next week already. We'll be there all day on the 23rd, and for about three or four hours on the 24th. The entire conference room will feature the Rychean Arcyhves museum, presented by the three of us, but featuring items from some of the world's biggest Queensryche collections (notably from my co-author, Brian Naron). So even if you don't want a book, but want to check out all the stuff, stop on by. It's absolutely free and some really cool stuff will be displayed to check out. It has been 20 years since some of this stuff has been publicly seen. Would be nice to see you all and talk old school Queensryche.
And for those interested, Queensryche is playing 5 minutes up the road at Snoqualmie Casino on the night of the 23rd. Should be a fun weekend. Hope you can join us all then.
:metal
------------------
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Here we go...
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/founding-queensryche-drummer-scott-rockenfield-sues-fellow-original-members-michael-wilton-and-eddie-jackson/
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Here we go...
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/founding-queensryche-drummer-scott-rockenfield-sues-fellow-original-members-michael-wilton-and-eddie-jackson/
(https://hypixel.net/attachments/here-we-go-again-png.2188786/)
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Here we go...
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/founding-queensryche-drummer-scott-rockenfield-sues-fellow-original-members-michael-wilton-and-eddie-jackson/
(https://hypixel.net/attachments/here-we-go-again-png.2188786/)
:corn
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Ugh. This band excels at not communicating. The court is how they communicate
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Scott's complaints do sound plausible but I think his silence works against him. Everybody else has remained consistent in their story of Scott going radio silent and not talking to anybody since 2017.
Until this Lawsuit we've heard nothing from him but cryptic nonsense. It will be interesting to see if he has any proof that he tried to make any kind of contact with the others.
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If he's getting no money that would be legally his, why wait 4 years to file a lawsuit?
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With each passing day, Chris DeGarmo looks smarter and smarter.
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With each passing day, Chris DeGarmo looks smarter and smarter.
Haha, I was just going to say that. If he hears about all of this nonsense, he has to be feeling pretty smart for getting away from this trainwreck long before the crash was on the horizon.
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If he's getting no money that would be legally his, why wait 4 years to file a lawsuit?
Probably waiting for Giuliani to be available.
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He's just really really bad when it comes to checking his bank statements.
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He's just really really bad when it comes to checking his bank statements.
Probably still using a checkbook.
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Maybe for him it was like when you need to apologize to someone but then so much time passes that you don't because it would just be awkward.
"Oh crap, I haven't talked to them in over a year... should I say something? Um... oh, and the money too. Well, um... it'd be too awkward, so..."
"Oh ****, it's been four years and I really need money now. Should I say something? Let me just see what they're-- did they REPLACE me? Oh my god, now it's really awkward. Crap. Should I sue? Oh god..." :lol
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Maybe for him it was like when you need to apologize to someone but then so much time passes that you don't because it would just be awkward.
"Oh crap, I haven't talked to them in over a year... should I say something? Um... oh, and the money too. Well, um... it'd be too awkward, so..."
"Oh ****, it's been four years and I really need money now. Should I say something? Let me just see what they're-- did they REPLACE me? Oh my god, now it's really awkward. Crap. Should I sue? Oh god..." :lol
:rollin
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For those of you interested in pre-ordering the Queensryche biography, we finally have the initial pre-orders available on nwmetalworxmusic.com. Amazon and all that will come later. The hardcover special edition version is unique to the nwmetalworxmusic.com site, however. Amazon will only have the paperback and kindle versions.
Here is the announcement and the link to pre-order. Thanks to those of you who expressed interest in wanting to get one. Hope you enjoy it.
Queensr˙che. A majestic name for a band that found itself at the pinnacle of rock and roll stardom thanks to the Grammy-nominated song “Silent Lucidity” in 1991. But how Queensr˙che got to the moutaintop, fell, and rose again to be labeled as one of heavy metal's most regal acts has never been told...until now.
Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che examines how the five original members of the band came together in the eastern suburbs of Seattle to create some of the most influential heavy metal albums of the 1980s, including the conceptual masterpiece Operation: Mindcrime. Discover how the band weathered the loss of key members, a changing industry at the turn of the century, a bitter lawsuit and numerous obstacles to continue a career that has spanned four decades and counting...
Written by James R. Beach, with Brian L. Naron and Brian J. Heaton, Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che examines how the band evolved from album to album, weaving interviews with the band members, managers, producers, peers, family and friends to help tell this honest, riveting tale of how five guys from Seattle's Eastside overcame the odds to become one of the most respected bands in hard rock and heavy metal. Paul Suter, the acclaimed writer from Kerrang! who broke the story on Queensr˙che in early 1983, penned the book's Foreword. Includes hundreds of rare photos and images throughout the band's career.
- Signed/Limited Edition hardcover of only 300 copies. Includes all full-color pages as well (paperback only has black and white pages). *EXCLUSIVE TO PRE-ORDER ONLY FOR THE HC WILL INCLUDE A BONUS INTERVIEW CD (Featuring 3 rare radio interviews from 1983, 1984 and `1997 with the band) AND POSTER.
(PRE-ORDER. ESTIMATED RELEASE DATE: OCTOBER 25, 2021.)
Link: www.nwmetalworxmusic.com
>>>>And for an update, we're up against our deadline. Last edits being done this week, designer does his thing this weekend and the following weekend, and then we proof it mid-September, and off to the printer toward the end of September.
I took a break from doing my final text and image edits. The three of us have been burning the midnight oil the last several days to get this done by Friday. :)
Sorry mate went to order but current exchange rates with that post puts it up around $70 to get down here atm so will need wait a bit for hardcopy and def grab digital version for now...
Not anyone's fault is just the way things are with the world atm. Looks fantastic BTW look forward to reading \m/
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Sorry mate went to order but current exchange rates with that post puts it up around $70 to get down here atm so will need wait a bit for hardcopy and def grab digital version for now...
Not anyone's fault is just the way things are with the world atm. Looks fantastic BTW look forward to reading \m/
Wardy, not sure if it makes a difference, postage-wise, but the book is available on amazon.co.uk here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Empire-Story-Queensryche-Beach/dp/1087979706/
Perhaps the shipping from the UK to you is cheaper? It'll be up on most if not all the country-specific Amazon sites by the 25th or 26th if I understand the process correctly.
Thanks for picking up the digital version (that should be available for Amazon Kindle as well sometime in another week or so). Really appreciate it and hope you like it!
We've just started sending out the initial pre-orders for the paperbacks. I know about 10 were sent out on Saturday, and many more will start to be sent out this week. So for those of you who ordered just the paperbacks from NWMetalWorx, those are shipping now. If you ordered the hardcover AND PB, or just the hardcover, those will be shipped together when the hardcovers come in...I think mid-to-late November.
Thanks again everyone. It was a blast to write it with Beach and Naron. Happy to answer any questions too, if anyone has any (our writing process, our interviewing, the band in general, etc.)
Sad news regarding the new lawsuit. But this book is a positive in that whole depressing affair. A great read about a groundbreaking band. So if you're sick of the negativity, the book is just what the doctor ordered to get you happy about Queensryche again.
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https://www.amazon.com.br/dp/1087979706?psc=1&smid=A1ZZFT5FULY4LN&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp
With a fair price in brazilian currency, if is there anybody else interested :tup
Pre-ordered! :metal
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https://www.amazon.com.br/dp/1087979706?psc=1&smid=A1ZZFT5FULY4LN&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp
With a fair price in brazilian currency, if is there anybody else interested :tup
Pre-ordered! :metal
Thank you!
Oh, that's cool! I honestly am really new to how book publishing goes. James takes care of it for myself and Naron, since he's been doing it for years. Excited it is up there! Really hope you like it. :metal
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I've also emailed "Estética Torta", recommending your book to them:
https://esteticatorta.lojavirtualnuvem.com.br/
I think it's up their profile. Let's hope for a portuguese version in the future!
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Sorry mate went to order but current exchange rates with that post puts it up around $70 to get down here atm so will need wait a bit for hardcopy and def grab digital version for now...
Not anyone's fault is just the way things are with the world atm. Looks fantastic BTW look forward to reading \m/
Wardy, not sure if it makes a difference, postage-wise, but the book is available on amazon.co.uk here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Empire-Story-Queensryche-Beach/dp/1087979706/
Perhaps the shipping from the UK to you is cheaper? It'll be up on most if not all the country-specific Amazon sites by the 25th or 26th if I understand the process correctly.
Thanks for picking up the digital version (that should be available for Amazon Kindle as well sometime in another week or so). Really appreciate it and hope you like it!
We've just started sending out the initial pre-orders for the paperbacks. I know about 10 were sent out on Saturday, and many more will start to be sent out this week. So for those of you who ordered just the paperbacks from NWMetalWorx, those are shipping now. If you ordered the hardcover AND PB, or just the hardcover, those will be shipped together when the hardcovers come in...I think mid-to-late November.
Thanks again everyone. It was a blast to write it with Beach and Naron. Happy to answer any questions too, if anyone has any (our writing process, our interviewing, the band in general, etc.)
Sad news regarding the new lawsuit. But this book is a positive in that whole depressing affair. A great read about a groundbreaking band. So if you're sick of the negativity, the book is just what the doctor ordered to get you happy about Queensryche again.
I had the same issue as Wardy. When I went to order from that site the shipping costs almost quadrupled the cost of the paperback, so I didn’t bother.
I saw the paperback available for pre-order on Amazon Canada a couple of weeks ago, but now it says it’s currently available. I’ll just keep monitoring until it becomes available again.
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Thanks so much.
Yeah, we had this issue where we sent it to Amazon just to get the listing up. But instead of making it a placeholder, they filled in wrong data (the page count is supposed to read 348, whereas the erroneous listing had it at like 256 or something). So James has been fixing the listings and it should be populated with the various Amazon sites in the next week or so. Sorry about that.
Shipping is that expensive to Canada from nwmetalworx? I mean, company is based in Washington state. It shouldn't cost a lot to get it up north. Weird. Sorry to hear that (I have no control over that). That sounds odd, I'll bring it up on our next call and ask. But yeah, it'll be up there and active on Amazon.ca soon I'm sure, so it'll be easy to order then.
B
p.s. we've had preliminary discussions about it being translated and for an audio book. Basically, it has to make financial sense. So if it explodes on Amazon and racks up sales (Amazon takes a cut of course), then I think we'd consider doing other versions. Fingers crossed. The thing I really enjoy working with NWMetalWorx is that James and Brian aren't in this for profits (it is their company). They are history guys like me. As long as we don't take a hit on a project, we're absolutely about doing it just for history's sake. So if a project breaks even - we're totally happy. This Queensryche book is doing well, and we're really appreciative of the support. More good stuff to come. Both on Queensryche...and other NW Metal bands... :metal
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Hmmm, not sure what happened with the pricing the first time I looked at it, but the shipping is now $26 for the paperback. Still costs more than the book itself. I will try the Amazon option.
I hope the book does really well for you. :tup
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Sorry mate went to order but current exchange rates with that post puts it up around $70 to get down here atm so will need wait a bit for hardcopy and def grab digital version for now...
Not anyone's fault is just the way things are with the world atm. Looks fantastic BTW look forward to reading \m/
Wardy, not sure if it makes a difference, postage-wise, but the book is available on amazon.co.uk here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Empire-Story-Queensryche-Beach/dp/1087979706/
Perhaps the shipping from the UK to you is cheaper? It'll be up on most if not all the country-specific Amazon sites by the 25th or 26th if I understand the process correctly.
Thanks for picking up the digital version (that should be available for Amazon Kindle as well sometime in another week or so). Really appreciate it and hope you like it!
We've just started sending out the initial pre-orders for the paperbacks. I know about 10 were sent out on Saturday, and many more will start to be sent out this week. So for those of you who ordered just the paperbacks from NWMetalWorx, those are shipping now. If you ordered the hardcover AND PB, or just the hardcover, those will be shipped together when the hardcovers come in...I think mid-to-late November.
Thanks again everyone. It was a blast to write it with Beach and Naron. Happy to answer any questions too, if anyone has any (our writing process, our interviewing, the band in general, etc.)
Sad news regarding the new lawsuit. But this book is a positive in that whole depressing affair. A great read about a groundbreaking band. So if you're sick of the negativity, the book is just what the doctor ordered to get you happy about Queensryche again.
Thanks mate will take a look at that option and keep checking either way will have a hardcopy eventually 🤘
Cheers
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More good stuff to come. Both on Queensryche...and other NW Metal bands... :metal
I'll take a book about Sanctuary and Nevermore, please! :metal
Glad that the book is doing well so far....I can't wait to read it, once the hardcovers are in and shipped out.
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What a shame about the lawsuit. I hope they're able to get things settled with as little rancor as possible. Certainly isn't looking good though.
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What a shame about the lawsuit. I hope they're able to get things settled with as little rancor as possible. Certainly isn't looking good though.
I don't think anything has looked good for this band in a long time :lol :facepalm:
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What a shame about the lawsuit. I hope they're able to get things settled with as little rancor as possible. Certainly isn't looking good though.
I don't think anything has looked good for this band in a long time :lol :facepalm:
I feel like that's true and yet, I've mostly had positive thoughts about them since the split. They've made some questionable choices with touring and stuff as others have rightly pointed out, but the albums have been good and the shows have been good. It's too bad this has been piled onto everything else they've dealt with.
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What a shame about the lawsuit. I hope they're able to get things settled with as little rancor as possible. Certainly isn't looking good though.
The problem with this lawsuit is that it puts Queensryche in a very dire financial position. It will most likely get settled, however, the financial damages will definitely have an impact in the band. Does Jackson and Wilton want to continue playing to pay off Rockenfeld (and maybe Tate if they haven't completed the payoff)? Both Jackson and Wilton are up there in age so for them it might not be worth it to continue as QR. Hopefully I'm wrong. I've enjoyed the TLT years.
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Hey all. Another book update.
Building An Empire: The Story of Queensryche was officially released on Monday, October 25, 2021. The paperback edition is shipping from nwmetalworxmusic.com and is available for order on Amazon and other retailers. In addition, our Amazon Kindle version of the book just went live this morning: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KDPR2Y2
A couple notes:
Amazon (the U.S. version) has the paperback edition listing at the wrong page count. It should be 348, not 272. Unfortunately, there's no function to fix that (we've tried, repeatedly). Rest assured, the book is 348 pages. The Kindle version is listed at 432 pages, which should be right, considering the smaller format.
All the content from the paperback edition is in the Kindle edition. It is just formatted differently due to Kindle's specific needs.
Finally, the hardcover edition available exclusively at nwmetalworxmusic.com is still at the printer, and still due mid-November. We were told it would initially be late-October, and pretty much as soon as we submitted the book, they delayed us by two weeks. Apparently that's the "new normal." Annoying, but we're at the mercy of the printer.
Last weekend we did the first book signing for Building An Empire: The Story of Queensryche. Beach, Naron and I held it at the Snoqualmie Inn, in Washington. The band played about five minutes up the road. It was a massive success. We held the Rychean Archyves museum in concurrence with the book signing and had hundreds of people stop through over the course of the weekend to check out all the artifacts from the band's history. We sold a ton of books, and were really happy our marketing idea worked out the way it did. Thank you to any of you who were there.
We also met up with the band after their show at the Snoqualmie Casino. Gave them all copies. They were very enthusiastic and supportive. Really appreciate Todd and Ed who took a ton of time to talk with the three of us about the book. Their show was a lot of fun. Played well. A real heavy sounding version of "Screaming in Digital" was the highlight for me, personally.
Here is a link to a video shot by "Mike the Rycher" detailing the Rychean Archyves - https://www.facebook.com/queensrychebook/videos/371525831421963/
I tried to link to photos of the Rychean Archyves and the book signing that are on FB, but for some reason it didn't work. So just head over to facebook.com/queensrychebook for some snapshots.
Thanks again to all of you who have expressed interested in this project. We're just getting started. We'll be tackling some other QR-related projects starting next year, and are discussing bios on some other NW metal bands.
B
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A bit weird
Skid Row replaces QR for the Scorpions Vegas residency. I wonder why they changed the opening act.
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/skid-row-replaces-queensryche-as-support-act-for-scorpions-on-sin-city-nights-las-vegas-residency/
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Cause Queensryche is doing a Casino Tour.
They're booked to play at Buffalo Thunder here in New Mexico on the 23rd of April.
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Not sure if is same for other countries but my Amazon was offering free postage so I jumped on and grabbed a copy of Building An Empire (could only get the paperback) and just thought I'd let others know in case their local Amazon are offering the same?
Granted am new to Amazon here so can't say if it was exclusive for that reason (perhaps) or just good timing!? Think it's still an import too and not being sent from locally Down Under, but might be worth folks still waiting to order taking a look anyway?
Started reading the digital but as hate reading screens unless have to will now wait for the hardcopy to arrive! 🤘
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It seems like they are going to be the support act for Judas Priest for the rescheduled dates of the NA tour. Some dates in Ticketmaster are showing this.
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-were-very-honored-to-be-supporting-judas-priest-on-north-american-tour/
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Whew, I guess I dodged a bullet by seeing Priest back in September when they were here. :lol :lol I prefer to think of Queensryche as a once-great band that I saw once when they were in their prime and then never again, rather than seeing the monstrosity currently known as Queensryche as some generic opener.
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YouTube channel "Professor of Rock" did an episode dissecting "Silent Lucidity" about a week ago. It's actually a good episode and a great channel overall.
If you're not familiar with Professor of Rock, he's a self-proclaimed "music junkie" and really provides a lot of insight and history about bands, albums, songs, etc. He's had a number of high-profile interviews too. To me, he has kind of a Matt Pinfield vibe, but more about 80s and what most of us here consider "classic rock"
This Slient Lucidity episode talks a brief history of QR and how this song came into being. It has personal meaning to the show's host, and he explains it as well. It's worth the 25 minutes.
I say browse his channel too and see what else you might enjoy.
https://youtu.be/s1yaxNPHzCI (https://youtu.be/s1yaxNPHzCI)
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-singer-todd-la-torre-says-he-doesnt-care-about-being-shamed-for-smoking-cigarettes/
...and now we know why QR can't do shows more than 80-90 minutes long.
What bugs me the most is how quick he is to rail on anti-vaxxers pointing to science, and yet turns a blind eye when it comes to this. Hypocrite much? :facepalm:
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-singer-todd-la-torre-says-he-doesnt-care-about-being-shamed-for-smoking-cigarettes/
...and now we know why QR can't do shows more than 80-90 minutes long.
What bugs me the most is how quick he is to rail on anti-vaxxers pointing to science, and yet turns a blind eye when it comes to this. Hypocrite much? :facepalm:
This has always bugged me. When you are a singer, your vocal chords ARE your “instrument”. When you smoke, you are intentionally sabotaging your irreplaceable instrument.
No clean singer who cares about a long term career should ever smoke…period.
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Ray Alder also smokes and his performance was pretty bad during the Darkness tour. ToF came out and his show performances were 180 from what I previously saw. Great singing, great range, but I do believe he still smokes.
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They start recording the Rockenfield Defense Fund, I mean, the new record, next month.
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-to-begin-recording-new-album-in-january/
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-singer-todd-la-torre-says-he-doesnt-care-about-being-shamed-for-smoking-cigarettes/
...and now we know why QR can't do shows more than 80-90 minutes long.
What bugs me the most is how quick he is to rail on anti-vaxxers pointing to science, and yet turns a blind eye when it comes to this. Hypocrite much? :facepalm:
Damn I didn't know Todd lived in my hometown of St. Pete.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-singer-todd-la-torre-says-he-doesnt-care-about-being-shamed-for-smoking-cigarettes/
...and now we know why QR can't do shows more than 80-90 minutes long.
What bugs me the most is how quick he is to rail on anti-vaxxers pointing to science, and yet turns a blind eye when it comes to this. Hypocrite much? :facepalm:
This has always bugged me. When you are a singer, your vocal chords ARE your “instrument”. When you smoke, you are intentionally sabotaging your irreplaceable instrument.
No clean singer who cares about a long term career should ever smoke…period.
Vocal chords don't exist. It is only possible to sing one note at a time.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-singer-todd-la-torre-says-he-doesnt-care-about-being-shamed-for-smoking-cigarettes/
...and now we know why QR can't do shows more than 80-90 minutes long.
What bugs me the most is how quick he is to rail on anti-vaxxers pointing to science, and yet turns a blind eye when it comes to this. Hypocrite much? :facepalm:
This has always bugged me. When you are a singer, your vocal chords ARE your “instrument”. When you smoke, you are intentionally sabotaging your irreplaceable instrument.
No clean singer who cares about a long term career should ever smoke…period.
Vocal chords don't exist. It is only possible to sing one note at a time.
:rollin Ya got me. :P
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Each to their own but its pretty silly when singing is your profession. It would be like a guitarist running his fingers over sandpaper and then trying to play.
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Each to their own but its pretty silly when singing is your profession. It would be like a guitarist running his fingers over sandpaper and then trying to play.
Regardless of what I would like, it's not my body. Therefore, I do not care if a singer chooses to smoke cigarettes. If they can still perform onstage then more power to them.
It'd be like asking Jeff Scott Soto to stop drinking so his vocals would be better. :biggrin:
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Actually it'd be more like asking Jeff Scott Soto to stop sucking.
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Each to their own but its pretty silly when singing is your profession. It would be like a guitarist running his fingers over sandpaper and then trying to play.
Regardless of what I would like, it's not my body. Therefore, I do not care if a singer chooses to smoke cigarettes. If they can still perform onstage then more power to them.
It'd be like asking Jeff Scott Soto to stop drinking so his vocals would be better. :biggrin:
I didn't say I gave a fuck if he smokes, why would I care? Doesn't change the fact its neglectful and silly but whatever.
Actually it'd be more like asking Jeff Scott Soto to stop sucking.
:lol
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Actually it'd be more like asking Jeff Scott Soto to stop sucking.
Just ask him to stop singing :biggrin:
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Vocal chords don't exist. It is only possible to sing one note at a time.
Actual words aren't possible (as far as I know (yet??)) But have you seen/heard polyphonic overtone singing?
https://youtu.be/vC9Qh709gas (https://youtu.be/vC9Qh709gas)
Some pretty darn impressive moments in this video. Worth the 4-5 minutes.
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Actually it'd be more like asking Jeff Scott Soto to stop sucking.
:lol
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One last book post from me.
Just wanted to say thanks to all of you who checked out Building An Empire: The Story of Queensryche and supported the biography. It was a lot of fun to write and be a part of and I'm glad I did it. For an independent release, we were able to not only do a paperback version, but also two different digital versions and a limited hardcover edition. And as of this writing, the book is fully paid for and is turning a small profit (there's not much money in doing independent releases these days). That's all thanks to those of you who bought it. Speaking for myself, I didn't really care about the money. As a historian of the band, it was something that needed to be done and I'm so grateful to have been part of the team that wrote it.
Books were hand-delivered to the current band and copies were sent to all past members of Queensryche as well. It was really nice to get them all a book that celebrates their band's history. With so much negativity out there, we wanted to make sure our book acknowledged just what a success "Queensryche" has been over 40 years and I think we did that.
In retrospect, there are a couple of mistakes in there - it happens. If we get a chance to do a second printing, I'll make sure those errors are corrected. But all in all, the feedback we received has been positive and thankful. And I'm really proud of the work James, Brian N., and myself did on it.
Thanks again to those of you who picked up copies of it. Happy Holidays and here's to a great 2022.
BH
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That's great to hear! Since giving each of the guys a copy of the book, what kind of feedback have you gotten from them?
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That's great to hear! Since giving each of the guys a copy of the book, what kind of feedback have you gotten from them?
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Vocal chords don't exist. It is only possible to sing one note at a time.
Actual words aren't possible (as far as I know (yet??)) But have you seen/heard polyphonic overtone singing?
https://youtu.be/vC9Qh709gas (https://youtu.be/vC9Qh709gas)
Some pretty darn impressive moments in this video. Worth the 4-5 minutes.
I'm speechless. That is as impressive as terrifying
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Apparently, Metal Sludge had an article a few months ago in which a source told them a QR reunion with DeGarmo and Tate had been in the works, but it was scrapped as a result of the Scott Rockenfield lawsuit: http://metalsludge.tv/operation-lawsuit-rumors-scott-rockenfield-ex-queensryche-drummer-sues-eddie-jackson-and-michael-wilton-reunion-with-tate-considered-la-torre-on-thin-ice/
My apologies is this was posted earlier in the thread. I might've missed it. It's hard to believe the reunion claim is legit though.
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Man it seems like every time QR is on the cusp of doing something awesome someone in the band fucks it up
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I'm probably the only one, but I don't want a reunion with Tate and DeGarmo. I don't see them recording new (and good) music, instead they would tour Mindcrime for the umpteenth time, or maybe Promised Land and would finally become nothing more than a nostalgia act.
I would like for them to release one or two more records with LaTorre, hopefully in the same quality as the last three and then call it quits. Todd could start a solo career and the rest goes into their deserved retirement.
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Guess it hasn't been posted here yet, but Casey is playing drums on the new album that they start recording this month.
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I'm probably the only one, but I don't want a reunion with Tate and DeGarmo. I don't see them recording new (and good) music, instead they would tour Mindcrime for the umpteenth time, or maybe Promised Land and would finally become nothing more than a nostalgia act.
I would like for them to release one or two more records with LaTorre, hopefully in the same quality as the last three and then call it quits. Todd could start a solo career and the rest goes into their deserved retirement.
I'm torn - I like the direction they've taken with Todd, but the live shows have generally suffered from a lack of diversity and too short of a set. I saw them 9 times with Tate and each tour was different than the others. Sure, they didn't play older songs like Queen of the Reich, very often, but we got a good dose of a new album, and a varied setlist. With Todd, the new albums are pushed aside when they play live because they are limited to no more than 90 minutes, and they book shows at venues where the crowd is more receptive to older classics and has less appreciation for new material.
So a reunion with Tate and DeGarmo would probably bring a new, less metal album. But the live shows would probably go back to two hours and we'd see some different setlists again, rather than the same stuff they've been playing since 2012. I have no desire to see Queensryche ever play live again - unless it is the original lineup with DeGarmo. I never saw that lineup live and would love a chance to see that show.
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As I said, I don't believe that a Tate/DeGarmo reunion would result in new music, they would do it for the money and the money lies in touring Mindcrime/Empire/Promised Land.
If Tate were in his prime I would go instantly, but although his singing has improved a bit recently, he's so far from what he used to be, I have zero interest in hearing him sing live. I've seen them twice with Tate, when he was still good, I don't want that memory to be tainted by a subpar performance.
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It's hard to believe the reunion claim is legit though.
I highly doubt there's any legitimacy to that at all. First off, if the source is that "Dude Random" guy on YouTube, you'd be a fool to believe anything that guy says. Just watch a couple of his video clips about having supposed "insider" information on Steel Panther, his favorite band. :loser:
Second, if there was any real genuine talk about a reunion, I can't imagine that Scott would be so stupid so as to start up a lawsuit and put in jeopardy a situation where he could get a big payout (and return to the band) unless he was not part of the reunion, and I can't believe that CDG would be agreeable to that.
Finally, you can be sure TLT would have his panties in a bunch over that and do whatever he could to put a stop to that, since it seems he's taken control of the band, if what Scott is saying is true (getting his buddy Casey in there, and Scott not being allowed to return).
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It's hard to believe the reunion claim is legit though.
I highly doubt there's any legitimacy to that at all. First off, if the source is that "Dude Random" guy on YouTube, you'd be a fool to believe anything that guy says. Just watch a couple of his video clips about having supposed "insider" information on Steel Panther, his favorite band. :loser:
Second, if there was any real genuine talk about a reunion, I can't imagine that Scott would be so stupid so as to start up a lawsuit and put in jeopardy a situation where he could get a big payout (and return to the band) unless he was not part of the reunion, and I can't believe that CDG would be agreeable to that.
Finally, you can be sure TLT would have his panties in a bunch over that and do whatever he could to put a stop to that, since it seems he's taken control of the band, if what Scott is saying is true (getting his buddy Casey in there, and Scott not being allowed to return).
According to Todd, Scott had been radio silent since his paternity leave, in which case it wasn't a case of "being allowed" to come back. So, someone is being less than truthful. Right now, Scott's wackiness leaves me inclined to give Todd the benefit of the doubt.
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I'm probably the only one, but I don't want a reunion with Tate and DeGarmo. I don't see them recording new (and good) music, instead they would tour Mindcrime for the umpteenth time, or maybe Promised Land and would finally become nothing more than a nostalgia act.
I would like for them to release one or two more records with LaTorre, hopefully in the same quality as the last three and then call it quits. Todd could start a solo career and the rest goes into their deserved retirement.
Right now, I’m of the opinion that QR should probably hang it up and TLT should seriously think about hooking up with Kurt Vanderhoof from Metal Church.
Since Mike Howe died, Metal Church is done. They couldn’t come back with an unknown, but TLT recently did a duet with Mike Howe on a Metal Church song, so he does know the guys. Bringing TLT into the fold and revitalizing Metal Church would be incredible.
And honestly, maybe even a better fit for TLT‘s tastes and vocal skills.
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I like that idea J-Dude.
But I ain't gonna lie. The Toddryche albums are better than the last Metal Church albums.
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I like that idea J-Dude.
But I ain't gonna lie. The Toddryche albums are better than the last Metal Church albums.
Damned if You Do was ok…but XI was incredible! And I don’t think there can be any doubt that Vanderhoof is a fantastic riff artist. Hooking up with TLT would be nothing but win/win for both parties IMHO.
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Guess it hasn't been posted here yet, but Casey is playing drums on the new album that they start recording this month.
Yes and I asked Queensryche in the Facebook page if Mike Stone will be involved and they said that he will record some songs.
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It's hard to believe the reunion claim is legit though.
I highly doubt there's any legitimacy to that at all. First off, if the source is that "Dude Random" guy on YouTube, you'd be a fool to believe anything that guy says. Just watch a couple of his video clips about having supposed "insider" information on Steel Panther, his favorite band. :loser:
Second, if there was any real genuine talk about a reunion, I can't imagine that Scott would be so stupid so as to start up a lawsuit and put in jeopardy a situation where he could get a big payout (and return to the band) unless he was not part of the reunion, and I can't believe that CDG would be agreeable to that.
Finally, you can be sure TLT would have his panties in a bunch over that and do whatever he could to put a stop to that, since it seems he's taken control of the band, if what Scott is saying is true (getting his buddy Casey in there, and Scott not being allowed to return).
According to Todd, Scott had been radio silent since his paternity leave, in which case it wasn't a case of "being allowed" to come back. So, someone is being less than truthful. Right now, Scott's wackiness leaves me inclined to give Todd the benefit of the doubt.
I think that Scott more or less kicked himself out with his behaviour, but what do I know?
But it seems like TLT has taken control of QR, or to say it with other words, he's the driving force and I think that's a good thing. Whip and Eddie seem to lack the motivation or initiative to get something done on their own, as witnessed by the Tateryche years. They need someone to tell them what to do and when to do it.
And if QR calls it quit in the next couple of years for whatever reasons, I think Todd is the one who has the biggest chance of landing another gig.
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But it seems like TLT has taken control of QR, or to say it with other words, he's the driving force and I think that's a good thing. Whip and Eddie seem to lack the motivation or initiative to get something done on their own, as witnessed by the Tateryche years. They need someone to tell them what to do and when to do it.
And that right there is a big part of the problem. If they've allowed TLT to wield too much power within the band, they end up falling right back into a similar situation like they had with Tater, except the music is not as bizarrely eclectic as it was with Tater. With Todd taking the reins and arranging for his buddy to play drums (who, let's not forget, ended up quitting his gig with Kamelot), I doubt he's going to want to leave Casey by side and let Scott resume his role.
Not that I'm saying that TLT is completely like Tater and this is all on him. Scott began this whole mess by putting his manhood in a place he shouldn't have and then took a leave of absence which he extended who knows how many times. And yeah, it seems Scott's not 100% with it mentally - the little that he's said publicly seems to indicate this. That said, I'd be willing to bet the band knows way more than they've ever let on. So I think there's blame on both sides, especially with regards to a lack of transparency of what's really been happening behind the scenes.
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Quick! Someone tell tell Samsara to have them stop printing his book! There is more drama to write about!
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Quick! Someone tell tell Samsara to have them stop printing his book! There is more drama to write about!
:rollin
No thanks. After this book was done, I was pretty much done with everything Queensryche...except the original lineup's history. I plan to do more with that.
As for the current band, etc., I wish them absolutely all the best.
Regarding the alleged Metal Sludge rumor about the original band reuniting...I have no idea, honestly. I will say though that the original band has tried multiple times to get together...2002/2003, 2007, etc., so its not like there isnt history of this happening. But who knows. Call me when it happens.
Honestly, while I love my metal, QR was always more than metal, and DeGarmo/Tate always found a way to steer the QR ship in such a way to appeal broadly. I miss that. If it ever happened again, it'd be cool. But I'm not holding my breath. Ill just document the original band's history and enjoy its past catalog.
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Speaking of potential original line-up reunions....
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-says-queensryches-classic-lineup-has-been-offered-obscene-amount-of-money-to-reunite-for-tour/
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Speaking of potential original line-up reunions....
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-says-queensryches-classic-lineup-has-been-offered-obscene-amount-of-money-to-reunite-for-tour/
No fucking thank you.
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Won't happen.
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Money is not the motivator, and getting together for an artistic dream isn't a motivator either, so what do you have? You have nothing.
So let's stop talking about it.
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Chris DeGarmo and who else said no?
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Chris DeGarmo and who else said no?
Hard to say, since the other 4 guys I'm sure would all love a big payout. CDG strikes me as being the only principled member of the band that would say no. But as for it be an "obscene" amount of money - they ain't Genesis or Led Zeppelin, so I'd question how much that truly is. Plus he says
one tour and we'd never have to tour again
which implies they could retire after said tour, but it can easily also mean that they only have to commit to doing one tour together to get that "obscene" amount of money, and then they go back to what they were doing before. While I don't doubt there's been offers, even as Samsara has confirmed, Tater's been known to exaggerate the truth, so I'd take everything he says with a grain of salt.
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I'd be up for a Pumpkins United-type tour with both TLT and Tate...
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The only way I care about any type of reunion is if DeGarmo comes back.
Zero chance that is happening.
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I'd be up for a Pumpkins United-type tour with both TLT and Tate...
If you're saying that you'd be up for a tour with both Geoff and Todd, with Chris returning, then sure go for it. But it would be anything but united. It would lack the dignity, respect, and comradery of the Helloween tour.
As a fan of Queensryche, I'd be offended that all they'd want is my money. They certainly wouldn't be out there for each other, or with the fans in mind.
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Outside of those who do not do their homework, I cannot imagine any promoter worth a damn offering Queensryche "obscene" amounts of money at this juncture. Probably another case of Tate talking out of his rectum.
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I'm curious what constitutes "obscene"
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I'm curious what constitutes "obscene"
$69
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I'm curious what constitutes "obscene"
$69
nice
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Hey all. For those interested, I interviewed Toby Wright, the engineer/mixer of Queensryche's Hear in the Now Frontier. I wrote up an article talking about the record for its upcoming 25th anniversary. Toby is most known for his work with Alice in Chains and Korn. But sandwiched between those two bands was a one-off with Queensryche.
Here it is if anyone wants to check it out: https://anybodylistening.net/hitnf-25.html
Have a great week. :metal
B
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Great read Samsara!
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Nice article! It's always sad that the original line-up didn't stayed together... surely they would have made so many more amazing albums.
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Nice article! It's always sad that the original line-up didn't stayed together... surely they would have made so many more amazing albums.
I suppose. Personally while I like what they tried to do with HITNF, that and Promised Land were both very disappointing. Plus Geoff’s voice was already going.
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Thanks for checking it out.
The album still has its filler, imo. But it has grown on me a great deal over the years. I understand better what the goal was and really appreciate it. Songs like Some People Fly, Hero, even Cuckoo's Nest, I dig a lot more than I did.
My favorite tracks are still the same (spOOL is still tops), but overall my enjoyment of the record has really grown. I actually credit Tate's acoustic solo performance of "Some People Fly" in 2017. There was something inspiring about it that made me really appreciate the record even more.
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I don't have problem with PL and HITNF (although obviously they're not at same level from Warning to Empire). In fact, I would be more concernable with those DeGarmo songs from Tribe - but maybe that was a result of the bad relationships at the time. But, even with an aged version of Geoff's voice, I think the band could still return to form and make more amazing prog hard rock albums, without returning to its heavier days.
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Yes.
Also like a lot of the album and while I do believe a lot of the newfound appreciation for HITNF is us looking back for nostalgic value, and well, because there's not been a lot of great since and we can better appreciate the record upon reflection, aside from a few of its songs always liked plenty of the record.
And I've always said had the band managed to stay together and forged through their issues, HITNF probably would've simply been relegated to that one poor album and like many other bands such as Maiden and Priest etc, Queensryche would've found their way eventually and absolutely would've delivered some magic again. Tribe was too soon perhaps but it alone hinted the magic was still there can only imagine with more albums under their belt things would've swung back around as they usually do!?
IMO ;)
Good read thanks Brian
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I’ve come to appreciate most of PL over the years, and some of HITNF but it’s a poor album with a dreary sound. And it’s supposedly DeGarmo’s album so I never really clamoured for his return, I just fell out of love with the band.
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I’ve come to appreciate most of PL over the years, and some of HITNF but it’s a poor album with a dreary sound. And it’s supposedly DeGarmo’s album so I never really clamoured for his return, I just fell out of love with the band.
Funny that you mention that. I remember when it was first announced that CDG had left, I wasn't disappointed - in fact I was kind of excited to see who they would bring in to replace him and what they would do next, since it was obvious from the songwriting credits that HitNF was primarily CDG's baby. IIRC, there had been some rumors that even John Sykes or Nuno Bettencourt or some other "free" name guitarist might join QR. While to this day I'm not thrilled with HitNF, I do strongly regret CDG's leaving, and I wonder where they might have gone next had he stayed. Tribe gives some indication which I could take or leave, but in general his songwriting was of higher quality and has been missing since his exit.
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I’ve come to appreciate most of PL over the years, and some of HITNF but it’s a poor album with a dreary sound. And it’s supposedly DeGarmo’s album so I never really clamoured for his return, I just fell out of love with the band.
Same here - it was the last QR album I bought for a very,very long time. I bought OM2 just because I caught the tour and then my well meaning sister bought me Dedicated To Cabaret for Christmas :censored :lol
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I bought HITNF and I liked what that were going for. I just thought it was way too inconsistent. But it does have the best band portrait of their career.
I also bought OM:2...just because I guess. I made it like halfway through.
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Promised land is my favorite QR album where as I don't think I've ever even made it all the way through HITNF in one sitting before :lol
Two wildly different albums, but to each there own.
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Promised land is my favorite QR album where as I don't think I've ever even made it all the way through HITNF in one sitting before :lol
I've never made it through Promised Land in one sitting.
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Promised land is my favorite QR album where as I don't think I've ever even made it all the way through HITNF in one sitting before :lol
I've never made it through Promised Land in one sitting.
It's an experience!
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Huge fan of Promised Land here. It's always a fight vs. Empire for the third spot in my Queensryche album ranking (after O:M and Rage for Order)
I love that it's at the same time accessible and full of cool ideas and details to discover...both in the production (one of my favorites, ever) and the songwriting. I liked it when it came out, but I've grown to absolutely love it over time...
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Promised Land really divides the fan base. In some ways, more than Hear in the Now Frontier. I've said this story a few times here over the years, but I didn't like PL when it first came out. I remember being in college, and not having the money to get it, begging my mother for a $20 loan until Friday so I could go to "The Wiz" and pick up the album (I saw the huge display in the window on my way back home from classes). She did, I got the CD home, put it on, and was like "WTF is this? I am I, I had seen on MTV. It was okay. "Damaged" was awesome. Then I was confused why the record was so mid-tempo. I listened to it a couple times and put it away.
A week or so later it was raining, late at night, I had gotten home from work, everyone was asleep. So I threw it on my headphones, laid in bed, and by the time the title track finished, I totally "got it." I read the lyrics to make sure I was following along, and realized just how personal the record was, and WHY it was mid-tempo (aside from a couple tracks). Once I heard the nuances in the record, and accepted that this was more of a deeper dive (up to that point, I'd say PL was the least accessible record in QR's catalog -- it might still be), it clicked.
Even now, it hovers near the top for me. Mindcrime will always be 1. But PL is always in the mix between 2-5. Always. What stops it from probably being the solid #2 is that it is about a song too short, IMO, and it could use another aggressive track or two. I also wish they would have re-cut the vocals on "Someone Else?" (It has the electric version's vocals spliced on top of the piano version, which came later.) Either that, or had spent the time and came up with the beautiful hybrid version they did live on that tour (which to me is the ultimate version of that song.)
So all those little nitpicks (and they are little) make it swim in that ocean of The Warning, Rage, and Empire in that 2-5 zone.
To be honest, The Warning has now mostly taken over as #2, if I consider it in the proper running order (which is sequenced that way on my digital stuff). PL and Rage fight it out for #3 after that. Empire probably is 5th, but depending on the day, it could be as high as 3. Della Brown, Anybody Listening, the title track, so, so good.
Anyway, I digress...
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What's weird is that I never considered Queensryche a great live band even though I loved their music.
I did not like Promised Land at all, but the show I saw on that tour was incredible.
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What's weird is that I never considered Queensryche a great live band even though I loved their music.
I did not like Promised Land at all, but the show I saw on that tour was incredible.
Connect the dots. :P
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I’ve come to appreciate most of PL over the years, and some of HITNF but it’s a poor album with a dreary sound. And it’s supposedly DeGarmo’s album so I never really clamoured for his return, I just fell out of love with the band.
Same here - it was the last QR album I bought for a very,very long time. I bought OM2 just because I caught the tour and then my well meaning sister bought me Dedicated To Cabaret for Christmas :censored :lol
Disown her if she did it on purpose 😁
I persevered for several albums after HITNF and have everything up to American Soldier or om2 whichever was the last, just hoping something would change. Then nothing until Toddryche.
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My apologies if this was posted and I missed it, but Geoff had some interesting remarks about the making of Promised Land in a recent interview linked on Blabbermouth. I always knew it was mostly a Tate/DeGarmo album, but I thought the other guys were a little more involved than Tate made it sound.
We made the record under extreme circumstances. We hadn't talk to each other in three years after we finished the 'Empire' tour, and the record company was knocking at the door for another record. And we knew we had to get in the studio to make one. None of us really wanted to be in the same room, but we had to do it. So I came up with this idea, 'Well, let's get everybody together on a remote island and we'll all sit in one place for a few months and throw around a bunch of ideas and see what happens and maybe kind of get back to being a band again,' like we were on maybe the first album. That didn't work. [Laughs] We still went and did that plan, but I think the drummer, [Scott] Rockenfield, he stayed for two weeks. He got all his parts done and left. And then the same with Eddie [Jackson, bass]. He was there about a week; he got done and left. Michael [Wilton, guitar] did some parts. He was there about three weeks and left. And it was just Chris [DeGarmo, guitar] and me and our engineer for six months [laughs], staying on the island, making the record.
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My apologies if this was posted and I missed it, but Geoff had some interesting remarks about the making of Promised Land in a recent interview linked on Blabbermouth. I always knew it was mostly a Tate/DeGarmo album, but I thought the other guys were a little more involved than Tate made it sound.
We made the record under extreme circumstances. We hadn't talk to each other in three years after we finished the 'Empire' tour, and the record company was knocking at the door for another record. And we knew we had to get in the studio to make one. None of us really wanted to be in the same room, but we had to do it. So I came up with this idea, 'Well, let's get everybody together on a remote island and we'll all sit in one place for a few months and throw around a bunch of ideas and see what happens and maybe kind of get back to being a band again,' like we were on maybe the first album. That didn't work. [Laughs] We still went and did that plan, but I think the drummer, [Scott] Rockenfield, he stayed for two weeks. He got all his parts done and left. And then the same with Eddie [Jackson, bass]. He was there about a week; he got done and left. Michael [Wilton, guitar] did some parts. He was there about three weeks and left. And it was just Chris [DeGarmo, guitar] and me and our engineer for six months [laughs], staying on the island, making the record.
The Making of Promised Land Big Log video vs. Geoff Tates memory.
You make the call.
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My apologies if this was posted and I missed it, but Geoff had some interesting remarks about the making of Promised Land in a recent interview linked on Blabbermouth. I always knew it was mostly a Tate/DeGarmo album, but I thought the other guys were a little more involved than Tate made it sound.
We made the record under extreme circumstances. We hadn't talk to each other in three years after we finished the 'Empire' tour, and the record company was knocking at the door for another record. And we knew we had to get in the studio to make one. None of us really wanted to be in the same room, but we had to do it. So I came up with this idea, 'Well, let's get everybody together on a remote island and we'll all sit in one place for a few months and throw around a bunch of ideas and see what happens and maybe kind of get back to being a band again,' like we were on maybe the first album. That didn't work. [Laughs] We still went and did that plan, but I think the drummer, [Scott] Rockenfield, he stayed for two weeks. He got all his parts done and left. And then the same with Eddie [Jackson, bass]. He was there about a week; he got done and left. Michael [Wilton, guitar] did some parts. He was there about three weeks and left. And it was just Chris [DeGarmo, guitar] and me and our engineer for six months [laughs], staying on the island, making the record.
The Making of Promised Land Big Log video vs. Geoff Tates memory.
You make the call.
OK, I hear you. And I think it is undeniable that every word Geoff Tate should be fact-checked because the man has demonstrated at every turn that he either does not understand or care about truth. But that being said, the Big Log documentary does not necessarily disprove what Tate said. Keep in mind that it was a PR piece meant for fans to hype up the new album. For argument's sake, every word of what Tate said could be true, and it would not have been hard to cut together footage from the experience to make it look like five guys reuniting and finding themselves as a band again in new and creative ways, even if that wasn't what went down at all.
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I'm very sceptical of this, and if I remember correctly Samsara's book makes no mention of it either.
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Just because it waan't in the book doesn't mean there isn't a kernel of truth there. I tend to think Tate isn't lying. But I doubt its the full story. Well its NOT the full story.
btw, saw Rockenfield was busy on FB this morning. I don't think I've ever seen a singer referred to as a "subcontractor" before. 😬😳
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Yeah, but if it was a known thing, wouldn't you and your colleagues put it in the Promised Land chapter?
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What's weird is that I never considered Queensryche a great live band even though I loved their music.
I did not like Promised Land at all, but the show I saw on that tour was incredible.
Connect the dots. :P
I'm afraid that for TAC, the dots will remain.....disconnected.
And I'm out.
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I'm afraid that for TAC, the dots will remain.....disconnected.
And I'm out.
:lol :tup
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Yeah, but if it was a known thing, wouldn't you and your colleagues put it in the Promised Land chapter?
Sure. But we tried to tell the story in as neutral a way as possible. I'd have to go back and read what we had in there, but I'm sure we mentioned some of the background circumstances.
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btw, saw Rockenfield was busy on FB this morning. I don't think I've ever seen a singer referred to as a "subcontractor" before. 😬😳
And then he addressed Tater's comments from two years ago when Tater said Scott's in a dark place, probably won't play drums again, etc. Like Scott is only discovering those comments now? Someone had to have made him aware of those comments within 6 months of when Tater said them - why only say something now?
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btw, saw Rockenfield was busy on FB this morning. I don't think I've ever seen a singer referred to as a "subcontractor" before. 😬😳
And then he addressed Tater's comments from two years ago when Tater said Scott's in a dark place, probably won't play drums again, etc. Like Scott is only discovering those comments now? Someone had to have made him aware of those comments within 6 months of when Tater said them - why only say something now?
Todd was just quoted on Blabbermouth recently about how integral Casey Grillo was to the new album.
I think the last time Scott dropped a bunch of statements last year was when Blabbermouth noted that Casey would be recording the new album. He seems to have a real bug up his butt about Casey being the drummer in the band.
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Was there ever any official reason given for Scott leaving QR?
I used to follow the band up to the 1st album with Todd, haven't kept with them of late and haven't even heard their albums in a while. For me Promised Land was an almost instant liking even after overplaying Mindcrime and Rage non stop. Empire was the record that took forever to get into, just didn't like the vibe of the tracks other than Silent Lucidity though it probably has my favorite production of theirs.
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Was there ever any official reason given for Scott leaving QR?
He ghosted them, though I would imagine there is more to the situation than what the public knows. A scheduled paternity leave went open-ended as months turned into years. The band had to move on without him if they wanted to continue to tour and record, hiring Casey Grillo full-time. Scott seems to remain a partner in the QR corporation and has yet to be bought out though, unlike when they split with Geoff and settled with him.
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Some words by Scott
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-drummer-scott-rockenfield-blasts-subcontractor-todd-la-torre-calls-out-geoff-tate-for-crazy-statements/
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To whom does he speak?
Maybe he's speaking to me ....
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Some words by Scott
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-drummer-scott-rockenfield-blasts-subcontractor-todd-la-torre-calls-out-geoff-tate-for-crazy-statements/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-drummer-scott-rockenfield-blasts-subcontractor-todd-la-torre-calls-out-geoff-tate-for-crazy-statements/)
He still sounds unhinged.
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He sure does sound unhinged.
So did he have a mental breakdown around 2017 or has he exhibited this type of behavior before?
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btw, saw Rockenfield was busy on FB this morning. I don't think I've ever seen a singer referred to as a "subcontractor" before. 😬😳
And then he addressed Tater's comments from two years ago when Tater said Scott's in a dark place, probably won't play drums again, etc. Like Scott is only discovering those comments now? Someone had to have made him aware of those comments within 6 months of when Tater said them - why only say something now?
Todd was just quoted on Blabbermouth recently about how integral Casey Grillo was to the new album.
Right. But didn't Scott post a few notable things last year? Why not address Tater's comments then, or even earlier?
He ghosted them, though I would imagine there is more to the situation than what the public knows. A scheduled paternity leave went open-ended as months turned into years. The band had to move on without him if they wanted to continue to tour and record, hiring Casey Grillo full-time. Scott seems to remain a partner in the QR corporation and has yet to be bought out though, unlike when they split with Geoff and settled with him.
That's the thing - it just doesn't add up. I mean, even if he did ghost them for a long time, I'm sure the band basically would've sent him messages saying to take a crap or get off the pot, and that if he didn't, that they'd have to move on. And if they did that, why didn't they (specifically Michael and Eddie) come straight out and say that to the public? I mean, to an extent, TLT has said that, but if it were to come from the founding members of the band and not the touring drummer's vocalist buddy, I think it would carry more weight. Were they afraid of some sort of backlash from the fanbase?
Some words by Scott
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-drummer-scott-rockenfield-blasts-subcontractor-todd-la-torre-calls-out-geoff-tate-for-crazy-statements/
Yeah - those are the posts we've been referring to.
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Stumbled on a good bootleg show from the Building Empires tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOaWRBYP7SQ
Watching right now, and am at the end of Thin Line as I start typing this post. Some thoughts:
What a phenomenal tour. This really brings back the memories. I saw them this tour in Raleigh, NC after returning from Desert Storm. Suicidal Tendencies opened. Set was slightly different. I don't recall Another Rainy Night or Last Time in Paris at my show, although I may be misremembering. But this is a very good representation of what I saw at my show, down to some of the choreography, stage banter, etc. Not that it makes much difference, but when Geoff shot the basketball on Best I Can, he took a jump shot from a little ways away at my show instead of the layup he took here. I think he may have even taken shots during the solo, but don't remember for sure. I only mention it because I can't help but wonder if he changed it due to the ball bouncing off the stage and possibly hitting audience members if he missed the jumper. :lol (he didn't at my show--apparently, he is a decent basketball player)
Geoff's vocals were incredible. Yeah, he had already lost a bit of what he had by this point. But still, for a set this long and with some of the most demanding vocal material in metal, he did an absolutely incredible job on this tour and at this show. The Promised Land tour was when I first noticed a substantial dropoff. And I guess it isn't surprising. Geoff had an amazing innate vocal talent in both range and power. Like a lot of young, talented singers, he had some training at an early age, but apparently relied on that innate talent to carry him and thought he could do it forever. He did little in those early years to train and to protect and cultivate that gift. He knew just enough to know how to get the notes he wanted, seemingly on demand, at a young age and to be able to carry that for an entire show, and he thought that was enough. Years of wear and tear, partying, smoking, etc. began to catch up with him eventually, and it is sad. But again, this tour highlights him at perhaps his finest. Again, as TAC will likely point out, he had already lost a bit from the Warning and Rage days, but it really isn't that noticeable. And what he may have lost, he made up for in sheer endurance to power through a set like this night after night. On the PL tour, in contrast, I was at the San Jose show that was heavily bootlegged (easy to do, as it was a radio broadcast), and I noticed right away that he wasn't the same singer.
Anyhow, it was really nice to revisit this tour all these years later.
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Are there any decent videos from the PL tour? That was an awesome show, and I have been perpetually bummed that the didn't release it on video.
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I have not searched, but I suspect there are. I have a couple of bootlegs burned to DVDs that I acquired years ago that are decent. I think one is from a show in Long Island. I don't recall where the other is from. But given that those exist, I would bet that they, and possibly others, are somewhere on YouTube.
EDIT: After a quick search, here are a few:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf3fuqaTCUM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWXqf6guF9c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPywqB29k7c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEfVWtZ8Zbg
The first and second probably have the best sound, in that order. I am almost certain there was never anything pro shot from that tour. There was nothing ever released in any form, and I'm pretty sure I have talked it over with Samsara through the years, and his sources indicate that there isn't anything even locked away in a vault somewhere, if I am remembering correctly.
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Not exactly related to current Queensryche, but apparently Geoff Tate is singing Queen of the Ryche live again? I never thought I would see such a thing post 2005.
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Not exactly related to current Queensryche, but apparently Geoff Tate is singing Queen of the Ryche live again? I never thought I would see such a thing post 2005.
www.blabbermouth.net/news/watch-geoff-tate-sing-queensryches-queen-of-the-reich-on-monsters-of-rock-cruise/
I think he sounds pretty damn good too - even nailed opening high note. :metal He adjusted some of the song, which is understandable, but still sings it to the best of his ability. I love how the guitarist looks at him as they reach the high note in the first chorus then reacts as Geoff hits it. Kudos to Geoff for playing the song again.
The one thing I dislike is the sound of his drummer's electronic drums.
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Not exactly related to current Queensryche, but apparently Geoff Tate is singing Queen of the Ryche live again? I never thought I would see such a thing post 2005.
www.blabbermouth.net/news/watch-geoff-tate-sing-queensryches-queen-of-the-reich-on-monsters-of-rock-cruise/
I think he sounds pretty damn good too - even nailed opening high note. :metal He adjusted some of the song, which is understandable, but still sings it to the best of his ability. I love how the guitarist looks at him as they reach the high note in the first chorus then reacts as Geoff hits it. Kudos to Geoff for playing the song again.
The one thing I dislike is the sound of his drummer's electronic drums.
Definitely down-tuned, but still. Given his age and, even moreso, his vocal abuse, that's some really solid singing right there. More than I have seen from him in a LONG time.
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He's definitely done something to improve his voice. He sounds WAY better on that song than he has for many years. Kudos to him. I would buy new music from him if he sounds like this. American Soldier had very good music but Tate struggles. Still, I thought it was a solid album.
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I never really understood why they went out on a headlining tour for Empire and took up most of the set playing Mindcrime? Is it just because they weren’t able to play it all on the Mindcrime tour? So, they just felt they needed to?
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I never really understood why they went out on a headlining tour for Empire and took up most of the set playing Mindcrime? Is it just because they weren’t able to play it all on the Mindcrime tour? So, they just felt they needed to?
Yeah. They weren't "big enough" yet on the Mindcrime tour to do a full-blown presentation of it like they undoubtedly wanted to. For the Building Empires tour, they were headlining and finally had the backing to present Mindcrime and bring it to the masses. And think about it: Mindcrime was an incredibly ambitious album. There wasn't really a metal concept album that was as elaborate and had as much success up to that point. It was their baby, and they wanted to do it right. The Building Empires tour was the first real opportunity to do that, and they seized it. And that tour was a huge success. Hard to say how much of that was because they were doing all of Mindcrime and how much of it was the commercial success of Empire, but it was a perfect storm of sorts. And it isn't like they neglected Empire either. Most shows, they played 7 out of the 11 songs, plus a B-side. (And I think they sporadically played Della Brown and Anybody Listening? as well)
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I suppose Queensryche could've done something smaller..theaters... for the Mindcrime tour. But they landed opening slots on 88 & 89's two biggest tours..Def Leppard and Metallica.
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Yeah. When you are still an "up and coming band," especially 4 albums in, and you get breaks like that, you don't turn that down.
Up to that point, they were kind of like...[guess who?] Y&T in that they had a rabid local following and were pretty big overseas, but hadn't really broken in the U.S., which can make a lot of bands start to feel desperate. Getting on massive tours like that is a no-brainer in that situation.
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Ya…I guess they weren’t big enough anywhere else…but they did headline Seattle for a New Years Eve show on the OMC tour. I was there, and they played the entire thing…..except Suite Sister Mary. Biggest “blue ball” moment in my concert going history.
They had signs posted that they were doing a live broadcast for Z-Rock stations…so I’m surprised a boot of that show never turned up. But now…even as I type this…I’m getting a strange déjŕ vu that I’ve mentioned this before and then someone actually shared it with me. But I can’t remember.
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They got good opening slots consistently. For Warning, they opened for KISS here and Dio in Europe. They opened for Maiden in '85 and Ozzy in '86.
I ended up selling my Ozzy ticket as that was the rescheduled show from the Spring that had Metallica originally. When he came back, Queensryche was now opening. I really regret selling my tickets, but at the time, I didn't really care for FRO, and that image they put out was ...odd. Mindcrime was next level on the very first listen.
Ya…I guess they weren’t big enough anywhere else…but they did headline Seattle for a New Years Eve show on the OMC tour. I was there, and they played the entire thing…..except Suite Sister Mary. Biggest “blue ball” moment in my concert going history.
See, I think they could've easily headlined a theater run for Mindcrime.
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Ya…I guess they weren’t big enough anywhere else…but they did headline Seattle for a New Years Eve show on the OMC tour.
Yeah, that makes sense. It was similar for my favorite example, Y&T, for the longest time. If you only saw them in the SF Bay Area or in LA, you would think they were one of the biggest bands of the day. But there's no way they could have headlined a U.S. tour in bigger venues. They were clearly "opener-tier" in most other markets in the U.S. until their sixth (!) album. Musicians knew and respected them (probably because anybody who came up through California in the late '70s/early '80s was discovered opening for them in the clubs). But they didn't have a "hit," so the public didn't.
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Ya…I guess they weren’t big enough anywhere else…but they did headline Seattle for a New Years Eve show on the OMC tour.
Yeah, that makes sense. It was similar for my favorite example, Y&T, for the longest time. If you only saw them in the SF Bay Area or in LA, you would think they were one of the biggest bands of the day. But there's no way they could have headlined a U.S. tour in bigger venues. They were clearly "opener-tier" in most other markets in the U.S. until their sixth (!) album. Musicians knew and respected them (probably because anybody who came up through California in the late '70s/early '80s was discovered opening for them in the clubs). But they didn't have a "hit," so the public didn't.
Even in Seattle that fact surprised me…because someone at KISW loved Mean Streak. I heard that on the radio a ton when it came out. That plus my cousin who was a fan from the Bay Area had me thinking they were HUGE! But in reality, no one heard them til Summertime Girls hit.
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Mean Streak got decent radio/MTV play, but the hit that broke them in the U.S. was Keep On Runnin'. That song has since fallen into obscurity, but that was what made album #6 (In Rock We Trust) take off and got them headlining in the U.S. Summertime Girls was definitely bigger. But it was also more or less their albatross, like Cherry Pie was for Warrant or More Than Words for Extreme. Good song, but one that was pushed more by the label and ultimately not one the band was in love with, and wasn't really indicative of what they were about.
Thankfully for Queensryche, they never really had that (See how I dropped some Y&T discussion, but brought it back around on topic? Man, I'm good!). They started to blow up when Eyes of a Stranger suddenly blew up on MTV after, I want to say, the album had been out for a year or more with only moderate sales up to that point. And of course, they majorly blew up when Silent Lucidity broke. But despite it being similar to the songs I mention with those other bands in that it was very different for them, that crossed over into the mainstream and drew in a lot of new fans that couldn't care less about Queen of the Reich or Screaming in Digital, it wasn't just something the band didn't like and threw out there just to try to get a radio hit. Silent Lucidity isn't that "albatross" that the band find themselves saddled with; it's a REALLY good song with a lot of substance, even if it is one that has been played so much that a lot of us are tired of it.
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They had signs posted that they were doing a live broadcast for Z-Rock stations…so I’m surprised a boot of that show never turned up. But now…even as I type this…I’m getting a strange déjŕ vu that I’ve mentioned this before and then someone actually shared it with me. But I can’t remember.
I don't have it, but I coulda sworn it does exist and is out in trading circles. You probably just need to do a bit of digging to find it if you're really itching for it.
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I would check with Samsara and Wey. They may be able to refer you to someone who might have it.
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I would check with Samsara and Wey. They may be able to refer you to someone who might have it.
On the Mindcrime tour, that New Years Eve 12-31-88 broadcast? Oh yeah, it has been in circulation for decades. If you don't care about MP3 at all, amazon.co.uk has it here - https://www.amazon.co.uk/music/player/albums/B07ZKT138P?ref=sr_1_2&keywords=Queensryche+children+of+the+revolution&crid=323NBDZXF44NQ&sprefix=queensryche+children+of+the+revolutio%2Caps%2C234&qid=1647626041&sr=8-2
The first couple of songs had some sound errors. Sounds like they didn't have it dialed in, and then it gets corrected. This exists on silver CD in various bootleg forms as well. But that Amazon link is the latest version of the show I've seen. It's just purely digital.
The Mindcrime headline run (May 1989) was absolutely incredible. My favorite tour from them. They did sporadic headline shows on that tour, in-between dates with Metallica and Def Leppard. A couple of gigs in North Carolina, some in England. The modified the setlist slightly when they were a full-on headline artist when they went to Japan in May 89, and then came back to play a few gigs in California before closing it all out and starting work on Empire.
Those Japan/U.S. May 1989 dates...man, wish I had been there. Just an iconic setlist. NM 156, Screaming in Digital, London, No Sanctuary, all of Mindcrime...epic.
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Ya…I guess they weren’t big enough anywhere else…but they did headline Seattle for a New Years Eve show on the OMC tour. I was there, and they played the entire thing…..except Suite Sister Mary. Biggest “blue ball” moment in my concert going history.
They had signs posted that they were doing a live broadcast for Z-Rock stations…so I’m surprised a boot of that show never turned up. But now…even as I type this…I’m getting a strange déjŕ vu that I’ve mentioned this before and then someone actually shared it with me. But I can’t remember.
It has existed for a long time :)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxDcWR6wjL0fN_KAWmXyFIwvQ4mo_-w9g
There's also an audience recording.
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As the 'wreck churns...
Here's the latest on the soap opera:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-michael-wilton-and-eddie-jackson-fire-back-at-scott-rockenfield-accuse-drummer-of-abandoning-the-band/
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As the 'wreck churns...
Here's the latest on the soap opera:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-michael-wilton-and-eddie-jackson-fire-back-at-scott-rockenfield-accuse-drummer-of-abandoning-the-band/
I read that yesterday and I couldn't help but shake my head—similar to the whole fallout with Tate.
I truly feel bad for Wilton and Jackson. While I'm sure there's more to the story, Rock left the band high and dry and has done little more than generate bad PR for them over the past few years.
Worst case scenaro? Rock puts together his own cover band, and then there's three versions of QR touring around the country :(
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Some of the “did he/didn’t he” actually contact the band or not seems pretty “he said/they said” but that loan info is pretty damning. Rock had no assets to put up for the loan? Then bailed? I’d be pretty ticked too.
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I always got a weird vibe from Scott watching interviews from before the Tate split and after. Obviously his drumming in the band has been so pivotal and IMO it's still really missed. But he genuinely just seems like a different dude. Very bizarre behavior. I don't see him putting another band together either, which is sad because I'd love to hear him play again.
This just sucks for Michael and Eddie because I'm sure Queensryche as a day job probably pays well but not a scenario you want to be in as you push into your 60's.
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Wow, that whole loan thing to pay off Tate. What a mess. They literally can't stop being QR because the band has to continue so they can continue to pay him. And all those stipulations of collateral. Makes me wonder if it was worth it. Quit QR and let Tate run it in the ground and form another band.
I don't know. When I last saw them I just felt that Eddie and Michael didn't really want to be there. They just didn't seem into it. If it wasn't for Parker and Todd you would have thought it was wax figures up there.
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Sad.
smh.
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Now Tate's comments regarding Scott make a bit more sense. That's definitely not normal behaviour.
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When you read this kind of garbage it makes you appreciate even more bands that can keep it together for decades.
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: ) yep.....
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When you read this kind of garbage it makes you appreciate even more bands that can keep it together for decades.
Yeah. It also makes me appreciate what they had in their original form that much more. I mean, not many bands go six full studio albums and an EP without a member change. To be honest, unless a band "hits" from the very start, they probably don't get more than a couple of records.
I feel pretty fortunate that I got to see the original Queensryche live a few times, and then their various incarnations afterward. It was never the same, at all, but given all their history, and what went on with that band from the get-go, it's amazing they've been going at it for 40 years straight now.
The original band sits on a pedestal for me. It always will for all the reasons anyone following my posts the last 25 years knows. :lol
But looking back at the other versions of the band, including the current one, while it may not be the same, they are still out there making a living and creating new music on a regular basis that people like, and they pay good money to see them live. And that's a victory, albeit not the kind of success they had previously.
It's really a shame they can't get it together for one final album and tour. But if you've followed the history of the band, you obviously know why it's not all that surprising that it hasn't happened.
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Those disclosures at least give us some background into what's been going on. I found it very interesting.
I wonder how much they bought Tate out. The fact that they're still paying it off seems..like it may have been an irresponsible settlement.
I have really enjoyed their studio output with Todd. It's quality stuff. But live, they are simply a Queensryche cover band. It's not Queensryche. Not even close.
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If they're in that much debt, sounds like Scott probably just wants to cut his losses and get out. He seems to want a slice of their earnings without paying his share of their liabilities.
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I think that ending of One And Only might be my favourite proggy-time-signature-shift ever.
And Empire has aged immensely well, in both songs and sound.
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I think that ending of One And Only might be my favourite proggy-time-signature-shift ever.
And Empire has aged immensely well, in both songs and sound.
The outro of One and Only is in 4/4 (it's a pretty standard 3-3-3-3-2-2 pattern).
If Empire had only the odd-numbered songs, it would probably be the best EP ever released.
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Total opposite for me. That method would omit my 1-2 favorites (Empire and Della Brown) and include my 1-2 least favorite. (JCW and ARN by a wide margin)
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I can do without SL from time-to-time, but honestly when I listen to Empire it's usually straight through. Great production, great songs, fantastic album. :metal
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I think that ending of One And Only might be my favourite proggy-time-signature-shift ever.
And Empire has aged immensely well, in both songs and sound.
The outro of One and Only is in 4/4 (it's a pretty standard 3-3-3-3-2-2 pattern).
Ok. Proggy-drum-beat-shift. ;D
I sometimes skip SL too, but that's about all. (I don't dislike it but I never saw how it's award winning material.)
The album manages to be melodic, technical, accessible, heavy, moving and varied, and progressed their overall vibe on. I think i might rate it their best now.
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I went to see Geoff Tate last night, playing the whole of Rage For Order and Empire. It was a great night. Geoff’s voice was very good on the whole, and the band played pretty much note for note from the albums. Nice to get Last Time In Paris as an encore too.
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I went to see Geoff Tate last night, playing the whole of Rage For Order and Empire. It was a great night. Geoff’s voice was very good on the whole, and the band played pretty much note for note from the albums. Nice to get Last Time In Paris as an encore too.
I honestly can't believe what I'm about to type, but having spent the last month deep-diving on QR, I can honestly say that I'd rather see Tate live than QR.
The Todd-Ryche albums are fine, but they have little staying power for me—and with a good-sounding Geoff constanty revisitng these classic albums (RFO is my favorite QR album), I am way more interested in his live show these days.
Kinda blows my mind, bc I am still totally disgusted by Tate's antics over the past decade, but setting all of that aside, he is 'the voice,' and always will be I suppose. Nostalgia act or not, Tate is a good show right now.
Todd is great live, but his versions of the classic QR stuff just falls flat for me. Now, if we could just DeGarmo to join Tate.....
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Now, if we could just DeGarmo to rejoin QR.....
FTFM
I think he'd help right the ship even though QR is on a far better trajectory than it's ever been since CDG left. I think that would make a difference.
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You guys will have to forgive me for rolling my eyes every time DeGarmo is mentioned.
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You guys will have to forgive me for rolling my eyes every time DeGarmo is mentioned.
Oh, trust me, I said it somewhat in jest ;)
That being said, on a personal level, I'd love to see him and Tate perform together again. Doesn't have to be a tour or a reunion, just a single show. I loved their voices together (Chris carried so much vocal weight live), and would love to see a one-off performance of classic-era stuff.
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But that era was so long ago. Empire is over 30 years old at this point. Tate has regained some strength in his voice over the last couple of years, but he's still a shadow of himself from that era.
And I'm not directing this at you personally WillMunn, but we should just cherish what we had. At the end of the day, it will still come back to Tate, and the fact that both Tate and QR base their shows around material recorded 35 years ago is insulting to me.
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But that era was so long ago. Empire is over 30 years old at this point. Tate has regained some strength in his voice over the last couple of years, but he's still a shadow of himself from that era.
And I'm not directing this at you personally WillMunn, but we should just cherish what we had. At the end of the day, it will still come back to Tate, and the fact that both Tate and QR base their shows around material recorded 35 years ago is insulting to me.
I hear you, I do, but as a fan, I can both cherish what 'was,' while still wishing for what isn't.
I used to play this game when I was younger—"make the ultimate band"
I'm sure we've all been there with friends, where we start 'drafting' our ultimate band: Geddy on bass, Eddie on guitar, etc. It's never a matter of disrespect, but rather, a measure of the fandom. In this case, pining for a one-off show (or any other 'reunion') isn't an insult to the current line-up or the recent albums...an appreciation for both can exist at the same time.
And I would argue the current setlists ultimately cater to the fans and their will.
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And I would argue the current setlists ultimately cater to the fans and their will.
Sad, isn't it.
I'm just grumpy. :lol
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And I would argue the current setlists ultimately cater to the fans and their will.
Sad, isn't it.
I'm just grumpy. :lol
At least with playing the whole 'play the whole record' format, you get a diverse set full of rarities. Hell, even if it was a local bar band down the street, if someone wants to launch into Neue Regal or Chemical Youth, I'm going to give it a listen.
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That's a fair point.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN_PuYp--Eg
great interview with Geoff
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN_PuYp--Eg
great interview with Geoff
That was tremendous. Thank you for the link.
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And kudos the Geoff, the Waterloo in Blackpool is a tiny (but awesome) venue, with as Geoff said when I saw him there a few years ago, the smallest stage he’d ever played on, probably a couple of hundred people there, but he gave it his all, seemed to enjoy the show.
A few years ago with the antics, his poor vocals I’d given up on him, but he’s won me over the last three times I’ve seen him. I wasn’t going to go to that first show despite it being very near where I live, but I did, and I’m glad I did.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN_PuYp--Eg
great interview with Geoff
That was tremendous. Thank you for the link.
Very interesting interview. Kind of funny how Geoff can portray the "ass" (mostly by his word choices) and then speak so well and polite, like in this interview. Seems like he is very happy with what he is doing and kudos for him.
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Wow. He seems like a different person. Humble, greatful, endearing. For years I thought he was such an ass. Just goes to show people can change. I mean, he even praised Scott. I really enjoyed the interview and if he releases new music, I will likely buy it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN_PuYp--Eg
great interview with Geoff
Geoff mentions the Seattle band Rail. I saw them in a club on my birthday in 1987 and they were great. I was never able to track down any of their albums back then though.
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I remember that Rail won the very first MTV Basement Tapes competition.
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I remember that Rail won the very first MTV Basement Tapes competition.
Rail were HUGE on the club scene here for years! They played everywhere and with everyone. They played proms at several Seattle high schools. I remember that the local roller rink chain “Skate King” would put on small club like shows and Rail played there all the time.
On the whole, their albums are just OK. But “Hello” was a fantastic song that I still love to this day. Just wish it wasn’t so short. For awhile, the EMP music museum had a “Northwest Trail” section where local memorabilia was on display. Right next to the dresses Ann and Nancy wore on the cover of Little Queen…were the notorious “fuzzy boots” that Kelly always wore at every show.
https://youtu.be/G1wEAAlWRpQ
I think that was one of those situations where winning that contest was the death of them. Because the record company just gave them a contractually obligated 4-song EP and then ignored them and promptly dumped them. I hate the record business sometimes.
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I remember that the local roller rink chain “Skate King”
(https://media.tenor.com/images/78de19e3bf59f96527e7218f48997865/raw)
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:rollin
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Seriously, that was THE place to have your birthday party when I was in elementary school.
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Wow. He seems like a different person. Humble, greatful, endearing. For years I thought he was such an ass. Just goes to show people can change. I mean, he even praised Scott. I really enjoyed the interview and if he releases new music, I will likely buy it.
Has he actually changed though, or is he just realizing that it's to his benefit if he doesn't act like an ass all the time? I do think it's possible for people to change, but I don't think we'll ever really know from those kind of public interactions.
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Wow. He seems like a different person. Humble, greatful, endearing. For years I thought he was such an ass. Just goes to show people can change. I mean, he even praised Scott. I really enjoyed the interview and if he releases new music, I will likely buy it.
Has he actually changed though, or is he just realizing that it's to his benefit if he doesn't act like an ass all the time? I do think it's possible for people to change, but I don't think we'll ever really know from those kind of public interactions.
It's hard to say without knowing the guy, but based on a number of interviews over the years and all the docs that came out during the lawsuit, I doubt he's changed much. I do think from a fan perspective that it's great that GT has addressed (some?) of his vocal issues and that he's putting on a decent performance. Even with a limited range hearing him sing is a treat, he's one of the best power metal/progressive metal vocalists of all-time for a reason and has helped create some incredible songs.
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Total opposite for me. That method would omit my 1-2 favorites (Empire and Della Brown) and include my 1-2 least favorite. (JCW and ARN by a wide margin)
I know I'm probably in the minority with that take, but it just plays out that way.
Best I Can - Awesome track with a cool middle section.
The Thin Line - Meh.
Jet City Woman - Love it; excellent chorus.
Della Brown - Bleh.
Another Rainy Night - Aside from the phone operator sound effects, I love it; another great chorus.
Empire - The song is not all that bad, but the McNeil Lehrer report breakdown just kills it for me.
Resistance - LOVE the main riff and the chugging verses.
Silent Lucidity - Never thought it was great; now it's overplayed tripe.
Hand on Heart - Another one in the vein of JCW and ARN.
One and Only - Just kinda meh.
Anybody Listening? - THIS should have been the hit over SL. An absolute crime that this barely got played back in the glory days (although I'm thankful that I got to see one of those performances).
I remember that Rail won the very first MTV Basement Tapes competition.
Talk about a name I've not heard in a long time! I recall that you would call a number and your vote would be registered. I called over and over and over.... I assume it was an 800 number or I'd have gotten my ass handed to me. I just listened to "Hello" for what has to be the first time in forever, and I have to wonder what I thought was so great. Probably just a "better than the alternative" thing.
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Mindcrime is a top 5 album all time for me and a huge part of my musical journey in the 80s/90s. As for Empire, well I was stunned a bit when this was released. I just didn't like it at all but it grew on me over time and I actually still put it on a every now and then today, however it is still a very inconsistent album.
Best I Can - never been a big fan, regularly skip this when listening to the album.
The Thin Line - love it.
Jet City Women - love it.
Della Brown - this is ok, but not great.
Another Rainy Night - love it
Empire - love it.
Resistance - cannot stand this song, total Bleh.
Silent Lucidity - was never a big fan and stunned at the popularity at the time but these days I enjoy it.
Hand on Heart - ok
One and Only - Meh
Anybody Listening? - this could be my number 1 QR song. Just a magical, awesome track.
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Wow. He seems like a different person. Humble, greatful, endearing. For years I thought he was such an ass. Just goes to show people can change. I mean, he even praised Scott. I really enjoyed the interview and if he releases new music, I will likely buy it.
Has he actually changed though, or is he just realizing that it's to his benefit if he doesn't act like an ass all the time? I do think it's possible for people to change, but I don't think we'll ever really know from those kind of public interactions.
Agreed. Tate did come off better than normal in that clip, but keep in mind that it was pieces of an interview cobbled together, almost like Tate's PR team put together the best parts of it together to make him look nice and diplomatic. Not saying that it what did happen, but that is how it came off.
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Mindcrime is a top 5 album all time for me and a huge part of my musical journey in the 80s/90s. As for Empire, well I was stunned a bit when this was released. I just didn't like it at all but it grew on me over time and I actually still put it on a every now and then today, however it is still a very inconsistent album.
Empire came out while my band was very active. We played music that was stylistically similar to O:M, but it was hard to gain a foothold in southern California because of the prominence of glam. We tried very hard to latch onto Queensryche since it was the only similar band that was having real success. When Empire came out, I was predisposed to like it. I never thought it was as strong as O:M, but I always thought it was very good. My biggest complaint was that it seemed too slick...too...I'm not sure how best to describe it. It was the same sort of issue as with Metallica's "black album" (but it was much worse on that album).
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Digital Noise Alliance due out October 7th…
https://fb.watch/d7tbo35LHp/
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Digital Noise Alliance due out October 7th…
https://fb.watch/d7tbo35LHp/
Feel like that's a long ways away considering the album has already been recorded for a while, right? Oh well. I really enjoyed the Verdict and am looking forward to this one!
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Been busy and missed all the Empire discussion earlier this month. Funny enough, I listened to the DVD-A of it yesterday and watched the interview with Chris and Geoff. Hard to believe that was done 20 years ago.
Every time I go back to it, I am reminded of why it was just so damn good then, and still is today. Taking the complexity and lessons learned from all the records prior and delivering a masterful listening experience that really crossed over with the mainstream, without losing integrity. Very few bands considered "metal" pulled that off like Queensryche did with Empire.
My top-3 from that record have stayed constant - Anybody Listening?, Empire, Della Brown. I really enjoy the whole thing. Silent Lucidity is very overplayed, as is Jet City Woman, but both were iconic songs in the early 1990s, so I get it. Even some of the deeper cuts like Hand on Heart, One and Only, Resistance - all great tracks. And the production...I mean, there's a reason studios used that record to test sound. Just a wonderful sounding record.
The other thing I like about Empire - it SOUNDS like Seattle to me. I'm not a native, but it is my favorite region in the country and I've spent tons of time there. I consider the PNW to be my home away from home. You can hear the region's vibe in that record. Once I experienced the area a bunch, I thought I was crazy to think that after listening to Empire, but I did. And then a few other people, totally oblivious to what I was thinking, said that in the course of discussing the record (they were Seattle natives) and it really hit home. That record has Seattle and the PNW all over it. Incredibly special. A lot of bands have that kind of vibe and if they stay together, it ends up coming through on their records.
Regarding DeGarmo-Tate, never say never, but I wouldn't put any money on it. All this time, and Chris has never appeared with Tate or QR. That speaks volumes. I think (and this is just my opinion) Chris realizes that any public time spent with one faction would create issues. And he obviously doesn't want that. I have a lot of respect for him for staying out of all that.
The fan in me wants Tate/DeGarmo to be together. Hell, I want the original band to just get back together, make a killer record and do one last tour. But it's unlikely to ever happen. I feel fortunate I got to see that original band three times. Still my favorite musical act of all time.
About the new QR record, I wish them the best. The Verdict was a good album. Had some whiffs of classic Ryche, but it's a totally different band without Tate, DeGarmo and Rockenfield. You hear the echo of classic QR when Wilton plays and some of the pieces he writes. But they've carved out a niche for themselves with The Verdict, and most people dig it. Hopefully they'll have some good success with DNA.
One last thing - about Tate and that interview. I am sure things were edited, that stuff always is. But it was really nice to hear him compliment his former bandmates and think fondly of everything they did together. People can be skeptical, and that's fine. But for me, personally, at this point in my life, I'm just taking the nice things I heard, smiling, and wishing them all the best. That original band and its music meant and still means, an awful lot to me personally and it felt good to hear Geoff in a place where he feels good about all of it and credits everyone for being essential parts of what made Queensryche what it once was.
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Wow. He seems like a different person. Humble, greatful, endearing. For years I thought he was such an ass. Just goes to show people can change. I mean, he even praised Scott. I really enjoyed the interview and if he releases new music, I will likely buy it.
Has he actually changed though, or is he just realizing that it's to his benefit if he doesn't act like an ass all the time? I do think it's possible for people to change, but I don't think we'll ever really know from those kind of public interactions.
Maybe playing the tiny venues he has been has reduced the ego somewhat. He came across well each time I’ve seen him at what he described as “the smallest stage I ever played on”.
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Even some of the deeper cuts like Hand on Heart, One and Only, Resistance - all great tracks. And the production...I mean, there's a reason studios used that record to test sound. Just a wonderful sounding record.
I am amazed at how great Hand On Heart is to this day. It really stands out on recent listens to Empire.
One last thing - about Tate and that interview. I am sure things were edited, that stuff always is. But it was really nice to hear him compliment his former bandmates and think fondly of everything they did together. People can be skeptical, and that's fine. But for me, personally, at this point in my life, I'm just taking the nice things I heard, smiling, and wishing them all the best. That original band and its music meant and still means, an awful lot to me personally and it felt good to hear Geoff in a place where he feels good about all of it and credits everyone for being essential parts of what made Queensryche what it once was.
Amen, Brother.
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Hand on Heart is probably top 3 of the album IMO. The chorus is beautiful and the transition into the solo is magic.
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Hand on Heart is probably top 3 of the album IMO. The chorus is beautiful and the transition into the solo is magic.
I think my top 3 would be (not necessarily in order) Best I Can, Resistance and Anybody Listening? HOH is probably next, then ARN and JCW, followed by the rest in an undetermined order.
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To me, One And Only is my least fave, but I must say that I was never really fond of Resistance.
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Resistance is unlistenable to me. Never liked it. One and only isn’t far behind.
Hand on Heart - some awesome parts in this song but I’ve always thought the chorus is just so soft and sappy. These days as an old bloke I can tolerate it more but still don’t love it.
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Scott just shared the new QR album clip/animation on Facebook, saying "let's rock. :)" I wonder if he's on better terms with the band now.
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Always loved Hand On Heart still do!
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The Metal Voice just posted the artwork and title of the new album. I didn’t see anyone post it here. I don’t know how to post pictures, but apparently the new album is called Digital Noise Alliance and it has the tri-ryche symbol made up like a DNA helix.
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(https://bravewords.com/medias-static/images/news/2022/6287B4A9-queensryche-to-release-digital-noise-alliance-album-in-october-teaser-image.jpeg)
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For some reason I always feel a little guilty for not liking it, but I don't like Della Brown. I tried to get it to grow on me and pretend I kinda sorta liked it but it never really did it for me.
Anybody Listening is far and away my favorite song from Empire. That song just has this aura about it.
Agree with the love for Hand on Heart. :)
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For some reason I always feel a little guilty for not liking it, but I don't like Della Brown. I tried to get it to grow on me and pretend I kinda sorta liked it but it never really did it for me.
Anybody Listening is far and away from favorite song from Empire. That song just has this aura about it.
Agree with the love for Hand on Heart. :)
You're not alone, it's fine, but I never understood the attraction of DB.
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(https://bravewords.com/medias-static/images/news/2022/6287B4A9-queensryche-to-release-digital-noise-alliance-album-in-october-teaser-image.jpeg)
Thank you Tim. I actually think it’s kind of cool. But I guess some people of criticized it for being a bit cheesy.
Whatever. I also thought the cover artwork for Q2K was amazing… wish the album had lived up to the cover.
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(https://bravewords.com/medias-static/images/news/2022/6287B4A9-queensryche-to-release-digital-noise-alliance-album-in-october-teaser-image.jpeg)
Thank you Tim. I actually think it’s kind of cool. But I guess some people of criticized it for being a bit cheesy.
Whatever. I also thought the cover artwork for Q2K was amazing… wish the album had lived up to the cover.
Agree with all this mate for its time Q2K looked good and have no problems with this new art (although I would've liked see it taper off/away more at the bottom maybe but no biggie)...
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If anything the name is a bit corny - but I like the art.
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I think the art is fine, the name not so much.
Re Empire: Hand On Heart and Resistance are my least favorite tracks on Empire whereas One And Only is top notch. But there really is no weak track on that record.
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For some reason I always feel a little guilty for not liking it, but I don't like Della Brown. I tried to get it to grow on me and pretend I kinda sorta liked it but it never really did it for me.
Anybody Listening is far and away from favorite song from Empire. That song just has this aura about it.
Agree with the love for Hand on Heart. :)
You're not alone, it's fine, but I never understood the attraction of DB.
I didn't like Della Brown at first, but it grew on my. I think of it kinda like the movie Blade Runner: It's kinda slow and contemplative, rather than flashy. And the lyrics speak to me.
Resistance, Hand on Heart, and One and Only are the only songs on Empire that never really clicked with me.
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Empire is the one QR album I still really dig.
Best I Can - great opener, one of those get you hyped type of songs.
The Thin Line - musically this is cool, lyrically it is quite awful. Would happily delete if we're cutting songs.
Jet City Women - one of my favorite QR songs period.
Della Brown - this is an awesome tune. Love the bass and overall atmosphere. The guitar solo is also tremendous.
Another Rainy Night - like this one a lot, but less than the other radio tracks.
Empire - this is a great song, but I too laugh at the breakdown of federal spending on "law enforcement." What is he even going on about?
Resistance - This song sounds really huge. It's never been a favorite, but it is pretty cool.
Silent Lucidity - This is among my favorite tracks by anybody, not just QR. It's a beautiful song and I've never gotten tired of it.
Hand on Heart - This one always left me a bit cold. It's fine, but also could do without it.
One and Only - I love this song. Really great vocal melody, love the underlying rhythm.
Anybody Listening? - This is a great closer, QR at their proggiest maybe.
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I saw Geoff Tate a couple nights ago in Portland, Oregon, and thought he and his band sounded terrific. They performed Rage for Order and Empire in their entirety. I was on the fence about going because I've seen Queensryche more than any other band and I've already seen a Geoff solo gig, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to hear some of my all-time favorites like "I Dream in Infrared," "London," and "Della Brown" live for the first time. I'm so glad I went!
Some notes:
-Geoff still has so much charisma and showmanship, and really seems to be enjoying his time on stage, even when he's singing songs he must be sick to death of by this point (Jet City Woman, Empire, and Silent Lucidity). He had just performed in the UK the night before and had gotten very little sleep, but showed no signs of fatigue.
-His two lead guitarists were full of youthful energy and metal cred, and they also contributed some great backing vocals just like DeGarmo and Jackson did back in the day.
-The wafts of marijuana during the opening of "Della Brown" made me smile, and those participants were greatly rewarded during the outro. It's one of my favorite parts on the album and so it was great to hear an extended version that goes all the way to 11.
-Geoff's voice was pretty strong throughout the show, and I was especially impressed during "Resistance" because I always thought that was one of the hardest ones to pull off. That's such a fun song!
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I saw Geoff Tate a couple nights ago in Portland, Oregon, and thought he and his band sounded terrific. They performed Rage for Order and Empire in their entirety. I was on the fence about going because I've seen Queensryche more than any other band and I've already seen a Geoff solo gig, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to hear some of my all-time favorites like "I Dream in Infrared," "London," and "Della Brown" live for the first time. I'm so glad I went!
Some notes:
-Geoff still has so much charisma and showmanship, and really seems to be enjoying his time on stage, even when he's singing songs he must be sick to death of by this point (Jet City Woman, Empire, and Silent Lucidity). He had just performed in the UK the night before and had gotten very little sleep, but showed no signs of fatigue.
-His two lead guitarists were full of youthful energy and metal cred, and they also contributed some great backing vocals just like DeGarmo and Jackson did back in the day.
-The wafts of marijuana during the opening of "Della Brown" made me smile, and those participants were greatly rewarded during the outro. It's one of my favorite parts on the album and so it was great to hear an extended version that goes all the way to 11.
-Geoff's voice was pretty strong throughout the show, and I was especially impressed during "Resistance" because I always thought that was one of the hardest ones to pull off. That's such a fun song!
Yeah, saw him a couple of weeks ago and echo your thoughts. He wisely bottled out of a couple of the big notes but better that than trying them and failing. I messaged Geoff on Facebook afterwards and asked if he’d put some thought into playing the whole of Promised Land next time and got a noncommittal “I’d love to”.
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I heard something today that made me go, “huh”…..
I’ll start by saying this has to have been known by now but I’ve never read about or heard it til just now. I was listening to the local classic rock station on my home from work and Pinball Wizard came on. The opening guitar part played and I did a double take…….that sounds like the intro to Revolution Calling.
Now Tommy is obviously known as one of the greatest concept albums ever so I have to imagine QR may have done this intentionally. Then again, maybe it’s just a crazy coincidence.
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Hah! Yeah, I can totally see that. Nice call!
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I mean...to the extent that both have one guitar playing held chords over another guitar playing a rhythmic part, sure, but otherwise...not really hearing any similarity.
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Last weekend I went to an aerial performance of the U.S Navy Blue Angels at Jones Beach on Long Island, NY, which attract tens of thousands of people each year of all ages and ethnicities. Anyway, before the show we were walking along the boardwalk and there were giant speakers every 200 feet or so playing music like Billy Joel. Anyway, out of nowhere comes on "Anybody Listening?" I couldn't believe it. I was one of probably a small number of people who knew that song. And I actually happened to be wearing a QR shirt.
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Neue Regal is in contention for being the best Queensryche song.
Prove me wrong. :biggrin: :biggrin:
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Neue Regal is in contention for being the best Queensryche song.
Prove me wrong. :biggrin: :biggrin:
How can I when you’re absolutely correct.
Second only to SSM imho
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Yeah it just might be my favorite too.
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Neue Regal is in contention for being the best Queensryche song.
Prove me wrong. :biggrin: :biggrin:
Can't prove you wrong because it is true! :biggrin:
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I was always drawn to things that were strange and unusual. That’s why I actually had dismissed the “new QR sound” when I first heard Walk in the Shadows. (Don’t worry…I’ve since grown to love it) But after my cousin loaned me the album and I got past the relatively simplistic track, I was immediately drawn to the strangeness of the rest of the music. By the time I got to the weird processed vocals at the beginning of NR, I was hooked
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Neue Regel is awesome. It wouldn't be my favourite Queensryche song but definitely a chance for top 10.
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This is the kind of feedback I like. :tup :tup
Second only to SSM imho
I'd definitely put Suite Sister Mary in that top tier as well. Off the top of my head, Neue Regal, Suite Sister Mary and Promised Land would all be top tier for me (quite possibly the top 3, the order varying from day to day).
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Neue Regal is in contention for being the best Queensryche song.
Prove me wrong. :biggrin: :biggrin:
\m/
Probably somewhere about my Top10 QR...
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In no certain order, I am pretty comfortable with the below as my 10 favorites by the band.
I Dream in Infrared
The Killing Words
Neue Regel
The Mission
Suite Sister Mary
Anybody Listening?
Damaged
Out of Mind
Promised Land
Lady Jane
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I'm happy this thread popped back up, because I've meaning to comment for weeks.
Regarding "Neue Regal": for a long time, this was not only my favorite QR song, but my favorite song ever. I would go so far as to say the second half of RFO is not only my favorite batch of QR songs, but also their most cohesive musical statement to date.
Regarding "One and Only": it's, hands down, my fav track off Empire.
As far as favorite songs, I hold the 'DeGarmo' years in such high esteem, it's difficult to separate the songs from the albums.
That said, keeping in the spriit of the thread, here are my top picks per album:
E.P. — "Nightrider," "The Lady Wore Black"
Warning — "NM 156," "Roads to Madness"
Rage for Order — "Neue Regal," "Screaming in Digital," "London" (but seriously, this is a flawless album IMO)
Operation Mindcrime — "Speak," "Suite Sister Mary," "The Mission"
Empire — "One and Only," "Anybody Listening," "Jet City Woman"
Promised Land — "Damaged," "Lady Jane," "One More Time"
Here in the Now Frontier — "Hit the Black," "Spool"
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Guys, this song is called Neue Regel not Regal.
Regel = rule
Regal = shelf
And Tate's not singing about furniture. :biggrin:
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I could use a new shelf, though.
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I want a new shelf
One to hold up my books
One that’s not really ugly
But one that’s good in looks
I want a new shelf
One that’s made out of wood
One that won’t fall down
But stays on the wall as it should
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If it's not about a shelf, then why am I so board?
Sorry. I'm so sorry.
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Reach for a graphic novel
Setting sights on a sci-fi theme
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In no certain order, I am pretty comfortable with the below as my 10 favorites by the band.
I Dream in Infrared
The Killing Words
Neue Regel
The Mission
Suite Sister Mary
Anybody Listening?
Damaged
Out of Mind
Promised Land
Lady Jane
This is a great list and one I could easily get behind.
Inspired by the Neue Regel discussion, I put on Rage for Order...it's crazy, but even after all these years, every time I listen to it I seem to like it a tiny bit more. Every time. Unbelievably great album.
Regarding "Neue Regal": for a long time, this was not only my favorite QR song, but my favorite song ever. I would go so far as to say the second half of RFO is not only my favorite batch of QR songs, but also their most cohesive musical statement to date.
I think I can agree with this. My favorite Queensryche will always be O:M - there are so many iconic moments on it, it's not even funny. However, if I had to explain the uniqueness of the band to someone, I'd probably pick Rage for Order. The very definition of a grower, and such a flawless (well, minus the wardrobe choices, I guess :biggrin:) confluence of musical influences and bold production choices into a cohesive package.
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I could not figure out RFO when it came out. I loved Warning so much, I was like WTF when RFO came out. And those outfits...
It has aged great, but it stuck out like a sore thumb in the 80's.
My QR Top 10...
Roads To Madness
NM 156
Deliverance
Queen Of The Reich
The Mission
Suite Sister Mary
No Sanctuary
Take Hold The Flame
Eyes Of A Stranger
The Killing Words
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I don't get the Road to Madness love. I listened to Warning again yesterday and really enjoyed it, but that feels like a song I keep waiting to get better and it never does.
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I don't get the Road to Madness love. I listened to Warning again yesterday and really enjoyed it, but that feels like a song I keep waiting to get better and it never does.
Sometimes you make no sense at all.
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I don't get the Road to Madness love. I listened to Warning again yesterday and really enjoyed it, but that feels like a song I keep waiting to get better and it never does.
Sometimes you make no sense at all.
You're killing me with words.
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I really wish they'd remix The Warning. Really like the songs but it's just gagging for some modern juice and more aggressively upfront guitar.
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I don't get the Road to Madness love. I listened to Warning again yesterday and really enjoyed it, but that feels like a song I keep waiting to get better and it never does.
Sometimes you make no sense at all.
You're killing me with words.
It's over.
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Inspired by the Neue Regel discussion, I put on Rage for Order...it's crazy, but even after all these years, every time I listen to it I seem to like it a tiny bit more. Every time. Unbelievably great album.
For me this could be said of any the Queensryche albums from EP-PL and the very reason they have remained my #1 since discovered them ;)
Love myself a list particularly a QR list so in no particular order and ALWAYS subject to change, my fave dozen atm would probably be...
The Lady Wore Black
Breaking The Silence
Eyes Of A Stranger
The Whisper
En Force
Neue Regal
Empire
NM156
No Sanctuary
One More Time
Hand On Heart
Anybody Listening
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I don't get the Road to Madness love. I listened to Warning again yesterday and really enjoyed it, but that feels like a song I keep waiting to get better and it never does.
It's a really cool song (and it was a treat to see it live when they performed it with Todd a few years ago) but now that I read your comment I agree. It's a little... bloated? Like it could have been cut shorter, or if it was changed a bit it may be better.
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Appears the band is dropping a new song tomorrow (June 23).
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I could not figure out RFO when it came out. I loved Warning so much, I was like WTF when RFO came out. And those outfits...
It has aged great, but it stuck out like a sore thumb in the 80's.
My QR Top 10...
Roads To Madness
NM 156
Deliverance
Queen Of The Reich
The Mission
Suite Sister Mary
No Sanctuary
Take Hold The Flame
Eyes Of A Stranger
The Killing Words
I talked my mate into buying RFO when it came out because I’d loved The Warning so much. We put it on and had a wtf moment. I felt so bad for him I bought it off him. Very soon after it was one of my favourite albums.
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In no certain order, I am pretty comfortable with the below as my 10 favorites by the band.
I Dream in Infrared
The Killing Words
Neue Regel
The Mission
Suite Sister Mary
Anybody Listening?
Damaged
Out of Mind
Promised Land
Lady Jane
This could be the first time Kev and I agree on music 😁😁 but then I read other people’s top 10s and agree with theirs too. Too many incredible QR songs.
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Neue Regal is in contention for being the best Queensryche song.
Prove me wrong. :biggrin: :biggrin:
I smell a QR countdown!
Note how quickly I responded to this 13 day old post!
My tentative top 10:
1. Suite Sister Mary
2. Eyes of a Stranger
3. Neue Regel
4. Deliverance
5. Queen of the Reich
6. Anybody Listening?
7. Warning
8. Speak
9. Prophecy
10. Raods to Madness
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I smell a QR countdown!
I can see a scenario where we do it and the Kelly Gray era somehow gets talked about way too much. :P :lol :eek
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Yeah, I don't see that at all. :lol
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Last weekend I went to an aerial performance of the U.S Navy Blue Angels at Jones Beach on Long Island, NY, which attract tens of thousands of people each year of all ages and ethnicities. Anyway, before the show we were walking along the boardwalk and there were giant speakers every 200 feet or so playing music like Billy Joel. Anyway, out of nowhere comes on "Anybody Listening?" I couldn't believe it. I was one of probably a small number of people who knew that song. And I actually happened to be wearing a QR shirt.
Heard that in a grocery store once. Freaked me out. I'm sure I've heard something crazier, but I can't think of another one at the moment.
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Sorry if missed and already posted but couldn't see it...
New Queensryche single In Extremis is out;
https://youtu.be/h_NZeFKbKaA
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Sorry if missed and already posted but couldn't see it...
New Queensryche single In Extremis is out;
https://youtu.be/h_NZeFKbKaA
“Not available”
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Sorry if missed and already posted but couldn't see it...
New Queensryche single In Extremis is out;
https://youtu.be/h_NZeFKbKaA
“Not available”
That should change when it ticks over to the 23rd in your part of the world
The song is okay I guess but not doing much for me. The style is in keeping with recent albums but something about it just sounds very un-Queensryche to me .............might be the drumming from Grillo. Anyway will wait and see what others think.
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The new song did very little if anything for me. Gave it 3 listens.
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It's Todd Ryche material as should be and not going recreate anything nor close to classic Ryche (nothing much is!), but I gotta say after a half dozen listens this falls into place and is bloody good stuff! I didn't hear it at first but now hear a slight 00's-era Maiden vibe to it and well, that's a good thing!
Damn gonna be too long a wait until October and sure hope the album lives up to this one \m/
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Sorry if missed and already posted but couldn't see it...
New Queensryche single In Extremis is out;
https://youtu.be/h_NZeFKbKaA
“Not available”
That should change when it ticks over to the 23rd in your part of the world
The song is okay I guess but not doing much for me. The style is in keeping with recent albums but something about it just sounds very un-Queensryche to me .............might be the drumming from Grillo. Anyway will wait and see what others think.
I enjoyed it but it reminds me more of Condition Human than the last release. I am curious to see how the guitars turn out as Parker was really coming into his own as a songwriter and doing a nice job with Michael W. This album is all Wilton (and Eddie and Todd I suppose).
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Very cool song! Really like it.
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It’s the most Maiden sounding song I’ve heard from them. Grillo’s drumming is the biggest departure for the QR sound by far, much more power metal then Scott.
Nothing earth breaking for sure, but it’s not awful either.
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re: Top-10
I have been thinking about this. Probably going with this:
1. Anybody Listening?
2. NM 156
3. Screaming in Digital
4. Roads to Madness
5. Damaged
6. Eyes of a Stranger
7. Empire (so overplayed but still such a dark, mid-tempo crusher)
8. Neue Regal
9. Promised Land
10. spOOL
Here it is by album (top-3, although with the EP and the original lineup "EP" of Tribe, I just take 2):
EP
Queen of the Reich
The Lady Wore Black
The Warning
NM 156
Roads to Madness
Take Hold of the Flame
Rage for Order
Screaming in Digital
Neue Regal
Walk in the Shadows
Operation: Mindcrime
(this is really hard, because I really do think its a full album listen each time. very rarely do I just listen to a song)
Eyes of a Stranger
The Mission
Anarchy-X/Revolution Calling
Empire
Anybody Listening?
Empire
Della Brown
PL
Damaged
Promised Land
Bridge
HITNF
spOOL
The Voice Inside
Hit the Black
Tribe EP (Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, The Art of Life, Doin Fine, Justified)
Art of Life
Desert Dance
re: In Extremis
Not bad. It is certainly a departure, as T-Ski said. The further they go along, the further away from the classic QR sound they get. And that's fine -- it's not the same band or writers. Very power metal, which isn't surprising. I like how the solo section starts at about the 2 minute mark a lot. Puts a little teeth into it, headed into the main solo. The solo is very Wilton. Dig the rhythm part under it before La Torre starts singing. Def. a Maiden vibe on the layered vocals.
Overall, I got a Maiden vibe from the tune, and a bit of power metal, with some 80s melodic hard rock vocal stuff. Not sure what I think about it after a first listen, but it's okay.
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It's a cool song, though some of the vocal melodies sound like they came right out of a few songs on The Verdict. It's probably just how Todd writes them. I'm happy to see Casey's full inclusion with the band on this album cycle and his stick twirls are always fun to watch.
I'd love to see them take the power metal style even further and let Casey loose on some double bass - he was so good at that in Kamelot.
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re: Top-10
I have been thinking about this. Probably going with this:
1. Anybody Listening?
2. NM 156
3. Screaming in Digital
4. Roads to Madness
5. Damaged
6. Eyes of a Stranger
7. Empire (so overplayed but still such a dark, mid-tempo crusher)
8. Neue Regal
9. Promised Land
10. spOOL
Here it is by album (top-3, although with the EP and the original lineup "EP" of Tribe, I just take 2):
It hurt not to have NM156 in the top 10. I have it at 12.
Top 3 by album (I can only do through Promised Land):
EP
Queen of the Reich (5)
Prophecy (9)
The Warning
Deliverance (4)
Warning (7)
Roads to Madness (10)
Rage for Order (this order doesn't feel quite right even though it's what the ranker produced)
Neue Regel (3)
The Whisper (18)
London (24)
Operation: Mindcrime
Suite Sister Mary (1)
Eyes of a Stranger (2)
Speak (8)
Empire
Anybody Listening? (6)
Another Rainy Night (14)
Jet City Woman (20)
Promised Land
Damaged (32)
I Am I (43)
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It hurt not to have NM156 in the top 10. I have it at 12.
NM 156, for me, is the genesis track for Queensryche. Tate said something of that as well years ago. When they took Waiting for the Kill, realized it needed to be MORE, and then Chris or Michael came up with the riff for NM 156 (thinking that was Chris' riff, but if it was Wilton's then Chris came up with the song's arrangement), and then the time changes, Wilton's epic solo (which he wrote for Waiting for the Kill, and obviously Chris doubled him on), and just the intense vocal from Tate, it really set the stage for the band. To be honest, for me, it's 1 and 1a with AnybodyListening? for me.
And I know people differ, but listening to The Warning in the band-intended track order where NM 156 opens things...it just brings that album to a whole different level for me. It brings it from middle of the pack to a solid #2 after Mindcrime. The theme, the circular opening of NM 156 is the same as the ending of Roads to Madness, the intensity of the opening run of songs. Just iconic. Had the mix of The Warning been what the band wanted, and the running order preserved, I'd have said QR had one of, if not the absolute finest debut albums in hard rock/metal history.
I've had it re-sequenced with the right track order for probably close to 15 years now. And then a friend had someone take the CD, and try to re-EQ it to bring up the guitars as best as possible (without the master files its obviously almost impossible). He cleaned it up pretty good, and it does sound a bit better. But man, I know it won't happen, but I'm praying that DeGarmo, Tate, Rockenfield, Wilton and Jackson get on a call next year with Capitol Records and ask them to reissue it as they intended as a 40th anniversary set. Holy Grail for me. Wilton has his cassette of the original mix (which I am assuming he had transferred), DeGarmo probably does, and I know that at least one other copy exists. So fingers-crossed one day we'll get it like the band intended.
Until then, I'll just play my re-sequenced version and rock the F out with it.
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My top 10.
1) Suite Sister Mary
2) Speak
3) Screaming in Digital
4) En Force
5) One and Only
6) Child of Fire
7) Damaged
8) Walk In The Shadows
9) The Mission
10) The Whisper
This is not a hard top 10 but pretty representative of my love for QR. I love the first ep so that's in its own category. The best Todd Latorre era album is the first one by a mile for me.
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I can try and give a QR top ten but like Paul said, so many great songs and can change daily.
1) Queen of the Reich
2) I Don't Believe in Love
3) NM 156
4) Eyes of a Stranger
5) Silent Lucidity (one of the greatest ballads of all time)
6) The Whisper
7) Promised Land
8) Roads to Madness
9) Take Hold of the Flame
10) Lady Wore Black
That's my list for today lol
The new song pretty good. Not a classic QR sounding song by any stretch but a good modern metal song. I don't have any interest in the new QR but it's for sure an enjoyable metal song.
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It hurt not to have NM156 in the top 10. I have it at 12.
NM 156, for me, is the genesis track for Queensryche. Tate said something of that as well years ago. When they took Waiting for the Kill, realized it needed to be MORE, and then Chris or Michael came up with the riff for NM 156 (thinking that was Chris' riff, but if it was Wilton's then Chris came up with the song's arrangement), and then the time changes, Wilton's epic solo (which he wrote for Waiting for the Kill, and obviously Chris doubled him on), and just the intense vocal from Tate, it really set the stage for the band. To be honest, for me, it's 1 and 1a with AnybodyListening? for me.
And I know people differ, but listening to The Warning in the band-intended track order where NM 156 opens things...it just brings that album to a whole different level for me. It brings it from middle of the pack to a solid #2 after Mindcrime. The theme, the circular opening of NM 156 is the same as the ending of Roads to Madness, the intensity of the opening run of songs. Just iconic. Had the mix of The Warning been what the band wanted, and the running order preserved, I'd have said QR had one of, if not the absolute finest debut albums in hard rock/metal history.
I've had it re-sequenced with the right track order for probably close to 15 years now. And then a friend had someone take the CD, and try to re-EQ it to bring up the guitars as best as possible (without the master files its obviously almost impossible). He cleaned it up pretty good, and it does sound a bit better. But man, I know it won't happen, but I'm praying that DeGarmo, Tate, Rockenfield, Wilton and Jackson get on a call next year with Capitol Records and ask them to reissue it as they intended as a 40th anniversary set. Holy Grail for me. Wilton has his cassette of the original mix (which I am assuming he had transferred), DeGarmo probably does, and I know that at least one other copy exists. So fingers-crossed one day we'll get it like the band intended.
Until then, I'll just play my re-sequenced version and rock the F out with it.
Sam, I know you've posted it before, but what was the intended running order? Nevermind..I see it on wiki. NM 156 opens and they move Warning down to before Roads.
I am so used to Warning the way it is. I don't think I could reorder it at this point. I've been listening to it the same way for 38 years. (Just saying that makes me want to puke! :lol)
I actually loved how NM 156 close Side 1. It was like it was laying in wait and then BAM! I honestly don't think I could love the album more than I do by changing the order. Warning is one of my favorite all time albums.
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NM 156, for me, is the genesis track for Queensryche. Tate said something of that as well years ago. When they took Waiting for the Kill, realized it needed to be MORE, and then Chris or Michael came up with the riff for NM 156 (thinking that was Chris' riff, but if it was Wilton's then Chris came up with the song's arrangement), and then the time changes, Wilton's epic solo (which he wrote for Waiting for the Kill, and obviously Chris doubled him on), and just the intense vocal from Tate, it really set the stage for the band. To be honest, for me, it's 1 and 1a with AnybodyListening? for me.
And I know people differ, but listening to The Warning in the band-intended track order where NM 156 opens things...it just brings that album to a whole different level for me. It brings it from middle of the pack to a solid #2 after Mindcrime. The theme, the circular opening of NM 156 is the same as the ending of Roads to Madness, the intensity of the opening run of songs. Just iconic. Had the mix of The Warning been what the band wanted, and the running order preserved, I'd have said QR had one of, if not the absolute finest debut albums in hard rock/metal history...
Proof was when they opened the Live Evolution shows with NM156. Simply badass and no argument the perfect opener and just made sense. Have been opening my own version of the Warning with NM156 since \m/
Certainly would be nice to get a 40th celebration of the Warning and even if as a second CD as part of a Deluxe release get that original version out there.
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Tim,
(https://anybodylistening.net/images/warning-originaltracklist.jpg)
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Sam, I know you've posted it before, but what was the intended running order? Nevermind..I see it on wiki. NM 156 opens and they move Warning down to before Roads.
I am so used to Warning the way it is. I don't think I could reorder it at this point. I've been listening to it the same way for 38 years. (Just saying that makes me want to puke! :lol)
I actually loved how NM 156 close Side 1. It was like it was laying in wait and then BAM! I honestly don't think I could love the album more than I do by changing the order. Warning is one of my favorite all time albums.
I recall re-ordering it, and it just didn't sound right. I've read folks talk about how it's some sort of revelation and game-changing, but I don't get it. Of course, I've learned from posting on DTF that there are quite a few folks who view song ordering on albums as way more import than I do.
Brian, what does the small print on the line after Roads to Madness say? I can't make it out, and enlarging the screen makes it more blurry.
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I recall re-ordering it, and it just didn't sound right. I've read folks talk about how it's some sort of revelation and game-changing, but I don't get it. Of course, I've learned from posting on DTF that there are quite a few folks who view song ordering on albums as way more import than I do.
Brian, what does the small print on the line after Roads to Madness say? I can't make it out, and enlarging the screen makes it more blurry.
For me, it's the circular ending, of Roads fading out and NM 156 beginning the same way that really bangs home the theme of the record. I've always viewed The Warning as an album not just about the dangers of nuclear holocaust and advancing technology, but that we, as a race, continually make the same mistake of taking innovation and turning it into a weapon. That's really what hit me. It's a minor tweak as you can see the song order above (and No Sanctuary going before Deliverance). But it made a world of difference for me.
re: small print -- I never could tell. I always assume it was that sound effect that ends Roads...drawing it out until the end (9:12 it looks like). But I could never make it out, and I always forget to ask when I have an opportunity.
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1. Wot We Do
2. The Mission
3. Anybody Listening
4. Eyes of a Stranger
5. I Dream in Infrared
6. Jet City Woman
7. London
8. I Don't Believe in Love
9. Della Brown
10. Damaged
Actually, on second thought, replace Wot We Do with Suite Sister Mary and that will be my Top 10 ;) I thought my list was going to be a little more varied and have more albums represented, but the Rage through Promised Land era was just on a whole different level.
Regarding the new single, it pains me to say that this is probably the most bored I've ever been by a Queensryche song. After 5 listens, I still can't remember a single thing about it. All of the Todd-era albums have been strong in my opinion (especially The Verdict) and I expect to like the new one as well as long as it goes in some interesting directions and doesn't play it safe.
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1. Wot We Do
2. The Mission
3. Anybody Listening
4. Eyes of a Stranger
5. I Dream in Infrared
6. Jet City Woman
7. London
8. I Don't Believe in Love
9. Della Brown
10. Damaged
Actually, on second thought, replace Wot We Do with Suite Sister Mary and that will be my Top 10 ;) I thought my list was going to be a little more varied and have more albums represented, but the Rage through Promised Land era was just on a whole different level.
Regarding the new single, it pains me to say that this is probably the most bored I've ever been by a Queensryche song. After 5 listens, I still can't remember a single thing about it. All of the Todd-era albums have been strong in my opinion (especially The Verdict) and I expect to like the new one as well as long as it goes in some interesting directions and doesn't play it safe.
lol Wot We Do
Dedicated to Chaos might be the biggest piece of shit of all time from a legendary band. Wolfster can probably discuss that.
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Liking the new single. :tup
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Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere but Tate appears to have had heart surgery. From his Facebook page.
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Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere but Tate appears to have had heart surgery. From his Facebook page.
That's heartbreaking to here. I wonder why and how he is doing?
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Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere but Tate appears to have had heart surgery. From his Facebook page.
That's heartbreaking to here. I wonder why and how he is doing?
Doing just fine:
https://www.facebook.com/GeoffTateOfficial/posts/pfbid02FBepLXNjtfoXGqdB7tNEPRAHCq3mdMtuuysREKzbgdxR1jmSbC9ENmDadrumANp3l (https://www.facebook.com/GeoffTateOfficial/posts/pfbid02FBepLXNjtfoXGqdB7tNEPRAHCq3mdMtuuysREKzbgdxR1jmSbC9ENmDadrumANp3l)
In other news:
This is quite sad to read, but unfortunately I can't say it actually surprised me, considering how some people act online and how entitled fans sometimes act.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-says-he-got-death-threats-from-wackos-who-objected-to-him-fronting-the-band
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"Dr. Blair, Dr. Blair.
Dr. S. Kueri, Dr. S. Kueri"
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Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere but Tate appears to have had heart surgery. From his Facebook page.
That's heartbreaking to here. I wonder why and how he is doing?
Doing just fine:
https://www.facebook.com/GeoffTateOfficial/posts/pfbid02FBepLXNjtfoXGqdB7tNEPRAHCq3mdMtuuysREKzbgdxR1jmSbC9ENmDadrumANp3l (https://www.facebook.com/GeoffTateOfficial/posts/pfbid02FBepLXNjtfoXGqdB7tNEPRAHCq3mdMtuuysREKzbgdxR1jmSbC9ENmDadrumANp3l)
In other news:
This is quite sad to read, but unfortunately I can't say it actually surprised me, considering how some people act online and how entitled fans sometimes act.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-says-he-got-death-threats-from-wackos-who-objected-to-him-fronting-the-band
WTF did Todd do? He's been kicking ass since joining QR!!! I'm a QR lifer and I don't see the issue. Should Eddie and Michael have called it quits, people are just sad man.
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Top 10 is tough, not sure about the order but will try to pick my 10 favourites in no order.
1) Eyes Of A Stranger (this is my actual favourite without any doubt)
2) Empire
3) Jet City Woman
4) Another Rainy Night (Without You)
5) Breaking The Silence
6) I Don’t Believe In Love
7) Spreading The Disease
8) The Mission
9) The Killing Words
10) Take Hold Of The Flame
As for the new one, I like it. I think for the first time I am coming around to Samsara’s side where this no longer sounds all that much like Queensryche, however it’s still a nice catchy hard rock song. I’m not crazy about the grungy middle section with the solo but like the main verses and chorus a lot.
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Really dig the new single.
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Death threats are ridiculous. But that's nothing new. Todd got them when he fronted Crimson Glory for replacing Midnight, and he got them for replacing Tate. It's absolutely absurd.
re: what Queensryche sounds like now (Peter Mc's post)
Let me clarify. It doesn't sound like CLASSIC Queensryche. Nor should it. It's a totally different band that has gone its own direction, as they absolutely should. I'm happy for them. They may rely on what came before to tour, but they shouldn't be beholden to their classic "sound" if that's not where their collective heads are at. I think the new song is okay, and has shifted further away from...what I consider to be the hallmarks of the band. That doesn't make it bad, it makes it them. :)
If you listen to the original band from the EP through HITNF, and then the songs on Tribe with Chris, they follow a very natural sonic evolution. As songwriters they were changing and reinventing and seeing where they could go. In the moment when those records were released, it may at times have sounded like a gigantic departure or leap. But now, 20 years later, to my ears, that evolution was very clear and makes me appreciate records like HITNF (that more people than not disliked) a lot more. HITNF may not be my favorite record from the original Queensryche, but I really like it. As I do the songs from Tribe that had the five of them involved. That, to be, sounds like them.
As people left and were replaced, that sound, and the band's sound changed. I think it's pretty obviously they were rudderless after DeGarmo left. And that makes sense - he was the songwriter in the band who was evolving and pushing the most and that could connect with Tate the best. Q2k featured Kelly, and not surprisingly, listening back, Q2k sounds very much like the albums Kelly was involved in producing/writing at the time. After Tribe, what happened? Tate brought in Jason Slater, who did his best to deliver hard rock/metal in a QR vein that Tate was happy with. Tall order, and obviously, by the time they got to Dedicated to Chaos, while Tate's hallmarks are still in that material, you can tell that creatively, it was imploding.
When TLT joined the band replacing Tate, the first record, and parts of the second, were very clearly trying to stay in that Mindcrime/Empire vein to re-establish the "base" of the band's most popular period. But starting with The Verdict, you can absolutely tell there's no Rockenfield and what he contributed to "sound" of Queensryche. It's metal, and you hear Wilton's style, which gives you echoes of the original sound of the band, but to me, that's really the beginning of a new band.
Fast-forward to the new song, from the upcoming album, I think it continues that. It's okay, and sounds even further from that classic sound of the band. And if they are all happy and energized by their new material, all the more power to them. They can't worry about creating music that sounds like it connects with the original band. They have to be themselves. And I'm happy they are. It's hard rock/metal in a progressive vein. I think it's okay. I am sure there will be other songs I think are better, and other songs I think are worse. Nature of the whole thing.
I'm happy for them if they are happy.
For me, I've gotten to the point that I am not really a fan of "brand names" any longer when it comes to music. I won't buy a record by a band that has undergone massive changes until I hear it a little. Particularly band who have lost a lot of the members that contributed the key elements of the band's music that drew me to them in the first place.
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I think TLT is doing much less of a Geoff Tate impersonation on this song too which is probably making it feel less like Queensryche. I think with the previous albums, whilst musically they may have been a little different, it still sounded like QR to me because of the vocal style. In other words, if I heard one of those songs on the radio, I would immediately think “is this a new QR song?”. With this new one, I’m not sure I would. That’s not necessarily a bad thing though as I like the song quite a bit.
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re: In Extremis
My wife said something yesterday that piggybacked exactly what I was thinking. QR has really started to sound more like Fates Warning around the time of Perfect Symmetry. I said that to myself a couple times in the past when listening to The Verdict, and she independently said it yesterday after listening to the new song.
Not sure if anyone also hears the similarity, but figured it was interesting.
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re: In Extremis
My wife said something yesterday that piggybacked exactly what I was thinking. QR has really started to sound more like Fates Warning around the time of Perfect Symmetry. I said that to myself a couple times in the past when listening to The Verdict, and she independently said it yesterday after listening to the new song.
Not sure if anyone also hears the similarity, but figured it was interesting.
That's a really good comparison - both in the music and the vocals.
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Totally get it, specially because of TLT vocals, which are very similar to Ray’s in the Perfect Symmetry album.
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In Extremis - I enjoyed it, but can’t remember anything about it after it finished. QR are a different beast than they were on those awesome first few albums, but a far better thing than we had for 15 years after that.
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My wife said something yesterday that piggybacked exactly what I was thinking. QR has really started to sound more like Fates Warning around the time of Perfect Symmetry. I said that to myself a couple times in the past when listening to The Verdict, and she independently said it yesterday after listening to the new song.
Not sure if anyone also hears the similarity, but figured it was interesting.
Interesting...
Perfect Symmetry (1989) came out a little more than a year after Operation: Mindcrime. Empire was a year later (1990), and then Parallels a bit more than a year after that (1991). Inside Out and Promised Land both came out in 1994 (with the former a few months before the latter). I stopped buying new QR albums after PL (because I didn't like PL and then because Chris left). I don't see much similarity between the referenced albums other than that Parallels, IO, Empire and PL were all more commercial than PS and O:M. There's a HUGE brooding tone to PL that isn't present in Parallels and IO. Obviously, FW went very proggy with APSOG, and there was also some brooding stuff. While I rank Disconnected and FWX at the bottom of my FW rankings, if it's true that post-PL QR sounds like FW, then that's a signal to me that I should check out that material.
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P,
I meant that the La Torre era (self-titled, Condition Human, The Verdict, and now the new tune) had a growing sense of sounding more like Perfect Symmetry-era Fates. Not the entirety of post-PL Queensryche.
Especially The Verdict and this new tune.
But no, not at all QR post-PL. Hope you've been well. Hoping to head down south for a show at some point next year. If it's something we both dig, would be nice to say hello. :metal
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P,
I meant that the La Torre era (self-titled, Condition Human, The Verdict, and now the new tune) had a growing sense of sounding more like Perfect Symmetry-era Fates. Not the entirety of post-PL Queensryche.
Especially The Verdict and this new tune.
All the more reason for me to check out material that, to this point, I haven't listened to. I did listen to the new song once and thought it was pretty good, so....
Hoping to head down south for a show at some point next year. If it's something we both dig, would be nice to say hello. :metal
That'd be great!
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Cross-posting this here - Freddie Vidales and Matt Barlow of Ashes of Ares have a short podcast with Andrew Peters, who is the current soundman for Queensryche. He explains what his job entails while Queensryche is on tour or playing shows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYWuajE6pY
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Okay, so I might do Queensryche next in my top songs countdown series, and I would include only songs from the 80s and 90s (this is non-negotiable on my end). I would likely shoot for a top 50 with them. Anyone interested who would submit a top 50 list (see the first post in the current Maiden countdown for how I run them), quote this post and answer in the affirmative. Looking for at least 15 peeps.
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I would definitely be in. I would not be able to participate in the Porcupine Tree countdown.
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Okay, so I might do Queensryche next in my top songs countdown series, and I would include only songs from the 80s and 90s (this is non-negotiable on my end). I would likely shoot for a top 50 with them. Anyone interested who would submit a top 50 list (see the first post in the current Maiden countdown for how I run them), quote this post and answer in the affirmative. Looking for at least 15 peeps.
Hmm, I was really looking forward to the Porcupine Tree list, but will definitely contribute to a Queensryche list.
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I'm in on Queensryche!!!
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As far as the countdown goes, i just went through the albums up through HITNF, and I could only nominate 32 songs. I'll end up having songs that are just OK.
Honestly, QR's discography, while fairly vast, just isn't strong enough once you get past the first 4 albums.
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The e.p.
The Warning
Rage For Order
Operation : Mindcrime
Promised Land
HITNF has 1 song I would rank. But a top 20 or 25 would be more practical Kev. (Just my opinion)
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Hmmm, a shorter one could be nice after this marathon of a Maiden one. :lol
It would also only delay the PT one a little bit.
Maybe a top 30 instead.
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Hmmm, a shorter one could be nice after this marathon of a Maiden one. :lol
It would also only delay the PT one a little bit.
Maybe a top 30 instead.
30 works perfectly. I was only saying 20-25 because The e.p. has 5 songs if you include Prophecy added later as a bonus track and The Warning 9 songs. I'm in no matter what you do. :metal
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I don't know. To do a countdown of a band, where only 4 of their albums are represented for a band that has 14 albums feels kind of cheesy to me. Kev..do Porcupine Tree instead.
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I don't know. To do a countdown of a band, where only 4 of their albums are represented for a band that has 14 albums feels kind of cheesy to me. Kev..do Porcupine Tree instead.
Booo! No PT for me. You’re just mad because JBJ pitched the 9th. :lol
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50 would be fine. I would probably squeeze in 3-4 from HITNF. And I’ve often been vocal about my love for TRSOMM…even though the rest of Q2Krap is terrible. Shocking that such an amazing song came from their 2nd worst album.
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I’m in for sure. I’d prefer top 50 but cool with whatever number.
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Okay, so I might do Queensryche next in my top songs countdown series, and I would include only songs from the 80s and 90s (this is non-negotiable on my end). I would likely shoot for a top 50 with them. Anyone interested who would submit a top 50 list (see the first post in the current Maiden countdown for how I run them), quote this post and answer in the affirmative. Looking for at least 15 peeps.
Answering in the affirmative and would promise to take better time in compiling a correct list :facepalm:
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I think top 50 sounds about right for Queensryche. Even though I probably won't have much from anything past Empire....maybe a couple from Promised Land.
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Okay, so I might do Queensryche next in my top songs countdown series, and I would include only songs from the 80s and 90s (this is non-negotiable on my end). I would likely shoot for a top 50 with them. Anyone interested who would submit a top 50 list (see the first post in the current Maiden countdown for how I run them), quote this post and answer in the affirmative. Looking for at least 15 peeps.
(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/affirmative-gif-5.gif)
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Hmmm, a shorter one could be nice after this marathon of a Maiden one. :lol
It would also only delay the PT one a little bit.
Maybe a top 30 instead.
nah, top 50.
So Q2K would be the last album? What about Tribe, has some great songs and still some involvement from DeGarmo?
I'd have a few Todd songs in my top 50 also but your call.
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The e.p.
The Warning
Rage For Order
Operation : Mindcrime
Promised Land
HITNF has 1 song I would rank. But a top 20 or 25 would be more practical Kev. (Just my opinion)
You missed Empire.
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I don't know. To do a countdown of a band, where only 4 of their albums are represented for a band that has 14 albums feels kind of cheesy to me. Kev..do Porcupine Tree instead.
Agree.
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I'd be happy with either just the classic lineup records (of which there were a total of 6 albums and the EP or 7 albums even if include Tribe being it also involved the classic lineup albeit was cut short when DeGarmo split for the second time) or all of them or whatever!?
Anyway could easily give 50 or more but if 30, 35 whatever, absolutely bring it on \m/
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The e.p.
The Warning
Rage For Order
Operation : Mindcrime
Promised Land
HITNF has 1 song I would rank. But a top 20 or 25 would be more practical Kev. (Just my opinion)
You missed Empire.
Yes, my brain is shot. :facepalm:
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Okay, so I might do Queensryche next in my top songs countdown series, and I would include only songs from the 80s and 90s (this is non-negotiable on my end). I would likely shoot for a top 50 with them. Anyone interested who would submit a top 50 list (see the first post in the current Maiden countdown for how I run them), quote this post and answer in the affirmative. Looking for at least 15 peeps.
I’d be in for this one.
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Running through The Warning this afternoon. What a fucking amazing album.
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Running through The Warning this afternoon. What a fucking amazing album.
NM156, En Force, No Sanctuary, Roads To Madness, Take Hold Of The Flame...
All essential Queensryche anyday and everday! :metal
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Running through The Warning this afternoon. What a fucking amazing album.
NM156, En Force, No Sanctuary, Roads To Madness, Take Hold Of The Flame...
All essential Queensryche anyday and everday! :metal
There's nothing weak or filler on here at all.
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Running through The Warning this afternoon. What a fucking amazing album.
NM156, En Force, No Sanctuary, Roads To Madness, Take Hold Of The Flame...
All essential Queensryche anyday and everday! :metal
There's nothing weak or filler on here at all.
Amazing album.
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Running through The Warning this afternoon. What a fucking amazing album.
No kidding :metal :metal :metal :metal
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Once I finish Maiden, I will decide if I am doing Ryche or PT next, but I will plan for them to be the next two, meaning whichever is not next will then be after.
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:metal
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I'm in, but having 50 AND cutting off in the '90s is going to have a lot of people really scraping the bottom of the barrel to struggle to come up with 50. I may have to be a jerk and do a competing top 50 thread that does all their albums. :biggrin:
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I remember seeing Queensryche open for KISS on the Animalize tour. I was so taken aback how awesome they were.
I went out the next day and bought, "The Warning."
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Yeah they should all be counted. No reason not to. Let the chips fall where they may.
That’s be like only doing Iron Maiden’s first seven albums. Doesn’t make any sense.
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Just an opinion, but I also think that all the QR’s albums should be included. Let the natural selection make its work… :corn
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I'm in on a top-50. But I agree with those who said it should include the total body of work under the brand name.
I mean, I'm all for doing say a top-25 of the original band (which would be EP-HITNF + a few tunes off Tribe + "Justified"), but if you're going to do it, you might as well do the entire catalog under the name Queensryche.
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I'm in on a top-50. But I agree with those who said it should include the total body of work under the brand name.
I mean, I'm all for doing say a top-25 of the original band (which would be EP-HITNF + a few tunes off Tribe + "Justified"), but if you're going to do it, you might as well do the entire catalog under the name Queensryche.
Absolutely.
I actually like American Soldier.
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Yeah American Soldier had some great tunes on it. With QR, I'm only interested in EP- HITNF. I would have to think about it, but if I could pick select songs from Q2K-DTC, I think that would make for one outstanding album. Especially The Right Side of My Mind.
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Yeah, AS has some nice tunes.
Top 75, the whole discography IMO. I guess I'd be okay with 50 though in reality.
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Yeah, AS has some nice tunes.
Top 75, the whole discography IMO. I guess I'd be okay with 50 though in reality.
of course, reality
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:lol
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Okay, so I might do Queensryche next in my top songs countdown series, and I would include only songs from the 80s and 90s (this is non-negotiable on my end). I would likely shoot for a top 50 with them. Anyone interested who would submit a top 50 list (see the first post in the current Maiden countdown for how I run them), quote this post and answer in the affirmative. Looking for at least 15 peeps.
I'm definitely in and think the way you suggest doing it makes great sense (30 or 50 would be ok).
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I'm in on a top-50. But I agree with those who said it should include the total body of work under the brand name.
I mean, I'm all for doing say a top-25 of the original band (which would be EP-HITNF + a few tunes off Tribe + "Justified"), but if you're going to do it, you might as well do the entire catalog under the name Queensryche.
Does that include Frequency Unknown? :P ;D
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Well, I try to do these countdowns for them to be fun, and really don't feel like dealing with pissing and moaning about not including anything post-90s, which I said was a non-negotiable, so I will probably just do Porcupine Tree next. Call me a grumpy bastard, but I am dealing with enough shit in real life that I'd rather do a countdown with no drama and that is fun.
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Awesome. I told you to go with Porcupine Tree in the first place. ;D
I mean, that seemed to be your plan anyway. That should be a great countdown.
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Yep, I was trying to pull a Costanza and go against my instincts :lol, and looked how that turned out.
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Yep, I was trying to pull a Costanza and go against my instincts :lol, and looked how that turned out.
I believe that is now known as pulling a Shmev. ;D
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I saw Porcupine Tree open for Opeth years ago, they bored me so I never played any of their stuff.
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Well, I try to do these countdowns for them to be fun, and really don't feel like dealing with pissing and moaning about not including anything post-90s, which I said was a non-negotiable, so I will probably just do Porcupine Tree next. Call me a grumpy bastard, but I am dealing with enough shit in real life that I'd rather do a countdown with no drama and that is fun.
OK, looks like I need to throw on a few PT albums to get fired up.
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Well, I try to do these countdowns for them to be fun, and really don't feel like dealing with pissing and moaning about not including anything post-90s, which I said was a non-negotiable, so I will probably just do Porcupine Tree next. Call me a grumpy bastard, but I am dealing with enough shit in real life that I'd rather do a countdown with no drama and that is fun.
Sounds good you grumpy bastard.
I better start finding the few PT albums I have.
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Well, I try to do these countdowns for them to be fun, and really don't feel like dealing with pissing and moaning about not including anything post-90s, which I said was a non-negotiable, so I will probably just do Porcupine Tree next. Call me a grumpy bastard, but I am dealing with enough shit in real life that I'd rather do a countdown with no drama and that is fun.
Sounds good you grumpy bastard.
I better start finding the few PT albums I have.
Wolfster, the reality is I couldn't tell you a Porcupine Tree song for anything.
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Well, I try to do these countdowns for them to be fun, and really don't feel like dealing with pissing and moaning about not including anything post-90s, which I said was a non-negotiable, so I will probably just do Porcupine Tree next. Call me a grumpy bastard, but I am dealing with enough shit in real life that I'd rather do a countdown with no drama and that is fun.
Sounds good you grumpy bastard.
I better start finding the few PT albums I have.
Wolfster, the reality is I couldn't tell you a Porcupine Tree song for anything.
Same. I love MANY prog bands, they're not one of them.
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Well, I try to do these countdowns for them to be fun, and really don't feel like dealing with pissing and moaning about not including anything post-90s, which I said was a non-negotiable, so I will probably just do Porcupine Tree next. Call me a grumpy bastard, but I am dealing with enough shit in real life that I'd rather do a countdown with no drama and that is fun.
Sounds good you grumpy bastard.
I better start finding the few PT albums I have.
Wolfster, the reality is I couldn't tell you a Porcupine Tree song for anything.
Mate, trust me, don't bother, you wouldn't last a single song.
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Does that include Frequency Unknown? :P ;D
:lol
Of course! But I'd be pretty surprised if anyone had a song from it in their top-50.
Kev - it's your deal man. Nobody is pissing and moaning. Just giving opinions. Run it the way you want to run it. I'll still play along. :smiley:
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Well, I try to do these countdowns for them to be fun, and really don't feel like dealing with pissing and moaning about not including anything post-90s, which I said was a non-negotiable, so I will probably just do Porcupine Tree next. Call me a grumpy bastard, but I am dealing with enough shit in real life that I'd rather do a countdown with no drama and that is fun.
Sounds good you grumpy bastard.
I better start finding the few PT albums I have.
Wolfster, the reality is I couldn't tell you a Porcupine Tree song for anything.
If I've ever heard a Porcupine Tree song, I don't remember.
Kev - it's your deal man. Nobody is pissing and moaning. Just giving opinions. Run it the way you want to run it. I'll still play along. :smiley:
Exactly this. Kev, if you ask for input, you'll get it, but once you set the rules, then the rules are the rules, and you'll get no grumbling from me (unless you don't include Last Time in Paris! :biggrin: ). I just appreciate you doing these.
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Kev - it's your deal man. Nobody is pissing and moaning. Just giving opinions. Run it the way you want to run it. I'll still play along. :smiley:
Exactly this. Kev, if you ask for input, you'll get it, but once you set the rules, then the rules are the rules, and you'll get no grumbling from me (unless you don't include Last Time in Paris! :biggrin: ). I just appreciate you doing these.
All of that. And if I were to do my own with the whole discography, I would wait until after yours is done so they don't compete. It would actually be kinda fun to see how the lists compared after the two different approaches.
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Paging Samsara:
https://www.backstagepasstravel.com/montana-tour-with-geoff-tate-2023/
"Who wants to spend a week in Montana with me next summer?," asks original Queensr˙che frontman, Geoff Tate. "We’ll check out ghost towns and swim in an alpine lake. We’ll do some recording so bring your voices or guitars if you play. To join me click this link for more info."
Tate's Ghost Towns And Guitars - 2023 will include:
Day 1 - Sunday - July 16th, 2023: Arrive in Montana and settle into your historic lodgings. Go to the local brewery and enjoy the evening having a few pints with Geoff while listening to live music. Can we talk Geoff into getting up and doing a few songs?? Stamp your local Montana Brewery/distillery passport.
Day 2 - Monday - July 17th, 2023: Get up in the morning and tour a local distillery. Learn how they distill several different spirits and watch Geoff and Kieran make up some new cocktails for you to try. Goto a local restaurant and try some Montana gourmet. Finally, finish the night with a campfire complete with guitar playing and sing along with Geoff and the band.
Day 3 - Tuesday - July 18th, 2023: Hike to a pristine mountain lake and jump in!! It’s hot outside, but that water comes straight off the snow melt!! Change for the evening and visit another Montana distillery and have dinner in a classic Montana Steakhouse.
Day 4 - Wednesday - July 19th, 2023: Drive to Flathead Lake, stopping at the Old Jesuit Mission at the foot of the Mission Mountains. Next, take a party boat with Geoff and the band around the lake and do some shopping in a artists town later for some souvenirs.
Day 5 - Thursday - July 20th, 2023: Geoff will take everyone out to visit Big Hole National Battlefield which was created to honor the 90 Nez Perce indians who fought and died in August of 1877. Next we will continue a day of history by visiting an incredibly well preserved, true old west ghost town. This ghost town was the site of Montana’s first major gold discovery in 1862. We will then come home to have another campfire and a chilly dinner.
Day 6 - Friday - July 21st, 2023: Go to see some raptors and hear from a wildlife rehabilitation expert. Next we embark on a day of horseback riding and other activities. You can choose to learn to do some roping and or some fly fishing. Or, secondly you could try your hand at western line dancing and marvel at what an amazing dancer Geoff’s drummer Danny is! Finally we have dinner and music to finish off the evening.
Day 7 - Saturday - July 22nd, 2023: Check out the local farmer’s market and taste some of the treats from the local restaurants. Shop for those one of a kind artisan items for a keepsake reminder of your trip. Next, return to the band’s lodge and record a song with the band. If you play guitar, you are welcome to bring yours along and have a chance to add some of your playing to the song as well.
Day 8 - Sunday - July 23rd, 2023: Rides back to the airport to head home after your wild west adventure.
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Didn't he do this once before (or maybe he just planned it and it got COVID-fucked)?
Honestly, it's not a bad deal at all, although I'm not a huge fan of pre-planned stuff.
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Paging Samsara:
Sounds like a fun trip, but for $4,500 per couple, I think we could do something cooler. I've paid to see Geoff Tate perform 40+x, I think this one is a hard pass. :lol
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Samsara, you probably know this better than most, but for me, as much as it sounds like fun, the devil is in the details. Is Geoff personable enough and open enough to make all that a meaningful experience? I mean, are you riding a horse alongside him and able to ask, "what's the deal with Sister Mary, for reals?" Or is he ducking in after dinner for some handshakes and an arm's length sing-along? I'm not being critical, I'm not suggesting he's not, but there's risk in all that IF you're not up for the entire trip sans Geoff for that price. Does that make sense?
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It'd actually be worth a few hundred buck to me to remind him of our prior encounter (which I believe I've previously posted about here). When Metallica was touring for AJFA and QR opened, my friend won a contest on the radio to meet the bands (if I recall correctly, it was a pre-show meet & greet). All of the people who won (probably only a couple dozen because I don't recall more than 40-50 people in the room) were entered into a raffle to win a Kirk Hammett signed guitar, and my friend won that also.
Anyway, my friend took me as his "plus 1," and the singer in our band asked us to ask Tate how he warmed up his voice. His response: "I masturbate in the shower." I kid you not.
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Samsara, you probably know this better than most, but for me, as much as it sounds like fun, the devil is in the details. Is Geoff personable enough and open enough to make all that a meaningful experience? I mean, are you riding a horse alongside him and able to ask, "what's the deal with Sister Mary, for reals?" Or is he ducking in after dinner for some handshakes and an arm's length sing-along? I'm not being critical, I'm not suggesting he's not, but there's risk in all that IF you're not up for the entire trip sans Geoff for that price. Does that make sense?
I agree. For serious fans of Tate, I think it's a pretty good value regardless. With the same itinerary, even though a few of the events are alcohol-centered and I don't drink, I would probably consider this and get a lot out of it if it were any of the members of DT, or if it were Mike Portnoy, Neal Morse, or a select few others. Even if the interaction with bandmembers was more "arms-length," it would still be worth it, IMO.
Think of it this way: Meet-and-greets are a pretty arms-length transaction, but yet they are often experiences of a lifetime for fans. Imagine getting 7 straight days of extended meet-and-greets where, even if the band interaction is heavily regulated, it is still less formal than a concert meet-and-greet, and the artist has time to get a bit familiar with you, and there is at least a minimal opportunity for there to be continuity and follow-up conversation over that 7 days. And that doesn't even take into account the sightseeing and other activities. So, yeah, while I agree with you that a lot of the details may need to be fleshed out to decide whether it is worth it on an individual basis, I think there is a lot of value provided here that makes the price tag pretty reasonable. If I were still a fan of Tate like I was in the '90s and early '00s, I might jump at something like this.
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I agree with all that. Makes sense. I'm sure if you're a big enough fan that's got to be special.
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Samsara, you probably know this better than most, but for me, as much as it sounds like fun, the devil is in the details. Is Geoff personable enough and open enough to make all that a meaningful experience? I mean, are you riding a horse alongside him and able to ask, "what's the deal with Sister Mary, for reals?" Or is he ducking in after dinner for some handshakes and an arm's length sing-along? I'm not being critical, I'm not suggesting he's not, but there's risk in all that IF you're not up for the entire trip sans Geoff for that price. Does that make sense?
Let me preface this by saying I don't know Geoff personally. I've met him in fan settings, exchanged emails about things, etc., but it's not like some of my other relationships. So my guess is, he's probably very available on these trips, but I would say he's probably not going to be your best buddy either. I've never gone on one, but while he's certainly social, I don't know the extent of "access" a person would have. Based on the description, it seems like everyone is the same areas and does some things each day as a group, but it's not all hand-in-hand the entire time.
If this was 25 years ago and I had the resources then that I'd have now, and all I knew was he was (back then) my favorite singer, I'm still not sure I would do it. But I am sure it is very worth it for many fans.
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New song is a bit of a snoozefest on first listen for me unfortunately. Based on these two songs though it definitely fuels my feeling that Todd has stopped doing a Geoff Tate impersonation on this record. Definitely feels less identifiable as Queensryche because of that but I really like the first single in it’s own right so am hopeful for a good album.
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New song is a bit of a snoozefest on first listen for me unfortunately. Based on these two songs though it definitely fuels my feeling that Todd has stopped doing a Geoff Tate impersonation on this record. Definitely feels less identifiable as Queensryche because of that but I really like the first single in it’s own right so am hopeful for a good album.
You mean FOREST? Yeah saw that single dropped overnight and agree, doesn't sound like the Todd we have come to know which isn't a bad thing but the song itself doesn't do much fer me either kinda weird choice for second single IMO but kudos for doing something different ;)
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The music itself has a really strong QR vibe (PL? I'm not sure). But I felt like they missed an opportunity for an impactful vocal melody on top of it. Overall it's fine, I enjoyed listening to it a couple times to start the day.
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Paging Samsara:
https://www.backstagepasstravel.com/montana-tour-with-geoff-tate-2023/
"Who wants to spend a week in Montana with me next summer?," asks original Queensr˙che frontman, Geoff Tate. "We’ll check out ghost towns and swim in an alpine lake. We’ll do some recording so bring your voices or guitars if you play. To join me click this link for more info."
Blimey, I thought Armie Hammer selling timeshares in Guatemala was sad enough, how broke must Geoff be to be moonlighting as a tour guide?
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Forest is an interesting curve from the Maiden-esque first single. Very DeGarmo like vibe. Todd’s voice seems very thin singing over the top of it however, it just doesn’t haven’t the warmth it needs to IMO.
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Paging Samsara:
https://www.backstagepasstravel.com/montana-tour-with-geoff-tate-2023/
"Who wants to spend a week in Montana with me next summer?," asks original Queensr˙che frontman, Geoff Tate. "We’ll check out ghost towns and swim in an alpine lake. We’ll do some recording so bring your voices or guitars if you play. To join me click this link for more info."
Blimey, I thought Armie Hammer selling timeshares in Guatemala was sad enough, how broke must Geoff be to be moonlighting as a tour guide?
He's been doing similar things for awhile now. I don't think it's about being "broke." But think about it--he's a musician that is WAY past his prime, isn't putting out new music that very many are interested in, and when touring, is only really able to play clubs. That isn't bringing in a lot of money at all. He's smart to find a unique way to parlay his celebrity into other interests to generate income. More power to him.
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Forest is an interesting curve from the Maiden-esque first single. Very DeGarmo like vibe. Todd’s voice seems very thin singing over the top of it however, it just doesn’t haven’t the warmth it needs to IMO.
My thoughts exactly. I was trying to place the vibe and then I realized it was very close to Silent Lucidity! I'm enjoying it though.
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In all honesty, I'm not getting a Lucidity vibe other than it being acoustic and having orchestration. This song really just goes along. We'll have to see how it sits in context of the record.
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I'm not getting that vibe either. But it's a decent enough song.
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Sorry I didn't clarify - not the entire song but the guitar/solo section reminded me of it. Vocally/melodically not at all.
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I found the song to be pretty boring.
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Meh, It's an ok song, still not into this era of QR.
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I really hope they didn't sit there say we need a Silent Lucidity styled song. Knowing them, they probably did.
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I really hope they didn't sit there say we need a Silent Lucidity styled song. Knowing them, they probably did.
Yeah not even close to Silent Lucidity.
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I wasn’t impressed with the first single at all. Just really bland. But I will try to give it another spin.
The ballad I ended up enjoying more than I thought I would. It maintains the soul of a Queensr˙che ballad and even harkens back to some of the classic guitar tones without necessarily sounding anything like any previous songs.
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I wasn’t impressed with the first single at all. Just really bland. But I will try to give it another spin.
The ballad I ended up enjoying more than I thought I would. It maintains the soul of a Queensr˙che ballad and even harkens back to some of the classic guitar tones without necessarily sounding anything like any previous songs.
Oh of course. :lol
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The ballad I ended up enjoying more than I thought I would. It maintains the soul of a Queensr˙che ballad and even harkens back to some of the classic guitar tones without necessarily sounding anything like any previous songs.
I agree. After one spin, it didn't grab me as anything overly special. But it wasn't bad either.
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New balled, Forest is very good. I'm coming back to these new songs about once a week and really enjoying them. I have a feeling this might be in contention for album of the year.
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I thought I'd watch a little of the Live In Tokyo show on youtube tonight. And I am reminded why I never watch it, even though The Warning is my favorite album by them. Those vocals are totally dubbed in, and it sucks.
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Not sure whether I know the story behind that. Is it dubbed from another show, or redone in the studio? I have an audio only silver disk of that show, which I believe is just the audio that was ripped to CD, and it sounds fantastic, but I've never watched the video.
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The video is brutal. It sounds like it was cut in the studio, honestly, and the words don't always match his mouth.
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But do you know what the source is for the audio? I bet Brian does. Hopefully, he weighs in.
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I thought I'd watch a little of the Live In Tokyo show on youtube tonight. And I am reminded why I never watch it, even though The Warning is my favorite album by them. Those vocals are totally dubbed in, and it sucks.
I don't think I've eve watched it. Seen the Take Hold clip but nothing else. I mainly just listen to it.
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The quality mismatch of Geoff's mic when he's singing, and then talking between the songs is very noticeable.
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But do you know what the source is for the audio? I bet Brian does. Hopefully, he weighs in.
Sorry, I would have responded yesterday, but I've been engrossed with the top-40 QR thread, which was great.
The audio of Live in Tokyo was taken from the two nights (three shows) they played on Aug. 4-5, 1984, in Tokyo. From conversations I've had, there were overdubs done, like all live records. The extent of it, I'm unsure. I don't think it was a ton, but all live records like that were cleaned up back then. My guess is those overdubs that were necessary were done during touring breaks. QR was on the road constantly, but there are gaps in the tour schedule.
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I never really thought twice about any touch-up on that audio, since (1) there's nothing on there that the band couldn't pull off live at that time, and (2) it just sounds great. But I guess not seeing the video helps. :lol
I really need to find that. My bootlegs are in a box somewhere in this house, but I don't know where. Haven't seen it in a long time. I guess my best bet is to wait until Fall when we shift everything around in the attic and closets to get the Fall decorations out and get the Winter decorations accessible. I think it's probably in one of those areas. My silver of that show actually got stolen many years ago when I was in law school in So. Cal. My car got broken into, and I was foolish enough to leave my CD wallet under the seat in my car in those days, and it was taken. Since that bootleg was on my frequent listens list back then, it was in there. I finally found another copy on Ebay sometime later, but it was clearly just a CDR with a printed decal stuck on the top. The value of the CDs I lost didn't bother me as much as the fact that a few of them were going to be really hard or impossible to replace, and I would bet that whoever took them was not into ANY of the music that I had in there. To this day, I haven't been able to truly replace that one or my import of Doro's Love Me in Black. Irritating.
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I never really thought twice about any touch-up on that audio, since (1) there's nothing on there that the band couldn't pull off live at that time, and (2) it just sounds great. But I guess not seeing the video helps. :lol
I don't agree with this line of thinking, as, if applied to other areas of music, it sets up for too much shortcut-taking.
For example, say a singer has trouble nailing a particular line in the studio just right, one they are capable of doing, instead of doing it over and over until they get it right, they sing it once and then let the producer touch and fix it up with "auto-tune," which is suddenly okay because we know they could have pulled it off eventually.
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I hear you, but your example is different. That's somebody else artificially making something sound good, as opposed to the actual singer re-singing the part later, and using that take (which is what we are talking about). I don't have a problem with the latter. If you do, that's fine, but I don't.
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But do you know what the source is for the audio? I bet Brian does. Hopefully, he weighs in.
Sorry, I would have responded yesterday, but I've been engrossed with the top-40 QR thread, which was great.
The audio of Live in Tokyo was taken from the two nights (three shows) they played on Aug. 4-5, 1984, in Tokyo. From conversations I've had, there were overdubs done, like all live records. The extent of it, I'm unsure. I don't think it was a ton, but all live records like that were cleaned up back then. My guess is those overdubs that were necessary were done during touring breaks. QR was on the road constantly, but there are gaps in the tour schedule.
That makes sense. Perhaps the vocal track was used from a different night as the footage.
But man, it just doesn't sound live to me.
The old Ozzy concert videos might be worse, like Speak Of The Devil. It is unwatchable.
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I hear you, but your example is different. That's somebody else artificially making something sound good, as opposed to the actual singer re-singing the part later, and using that take (which is what we are talking about). I don't have a problem with the latter. If you do, that's fine, but I don't.
I get this, but I have long gritted my teeth over the constant fixing up of live shows and then releasing them as true live records. To me, a live record ought to be just that: a live record, warts and all. If a vocal part gets flubbed or a guitar goes down or whatever, tough luck, that is part of playing live. Studio versions are where you can make it all perfect and just right. But that is my own hill to die on, and I get that many do not feel the same way.
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But do you know what the source is for the audio? I bet Brian does. Hopefully, he weighs in.
Sorry, I would have responded yesterday, but I've been engrossed with the top-40 QR thread, which was great.
The audio of Live in Tokyo was taken from the two nights (three shows) they played on Aug. 4-5, 1984, in Tokyo. From conversations I've had, there were overdubs done, like all live records. The extent of it, I'm unsure. I don't think it was a ton, but all live records like that were cleaned up back then. My guess is those overdubs that were necessary were done during touring breaks. QR was on the road constantly, but there are gaps in the tour schedule.
That makes sense. Perhaps the vocal track was used from a different night as the footage.
But man, it just doesn't sound live to me.
The old Ozzy concert videos might be worse, like Speak Of The Devil. It is unwatchable.
I purchased this on DVD and almost fucking threw it out after watching a few songs. What a joke.
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I just watched Nightrider from Live in Tokyo and the opening scream was definitely overdubbed. Still a great listen.
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In general, most live releases were overdubbed back then. It was just how things were done. And touch ups, even now, are still done, but less so, because everyone in the audience has a phone and can capture what really happened.
I have probably one of the most extensive bootleg collections of the original lineup. And Tate...any touches needed were just to make sure it was nailed. Because dude could literally sing anything. All the audience recordings and radio broadcasts that were pure live were unbelievably good. Man, he was just ON FIRE.
Think of it this way. For Operation: LIVEcrime, the band recorded three shows. They could have released any of the three, as they were. In one, Geoff flubbed the lyrics to a song, and Michael broke a string. Outside of that, all of those shows were pristine. That tells you something about the tightness of the band from 1983-1992.
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In general, most live releases were overdubbed back then. It was just how things were done. And touch ups, even now, are still done, but less so, because everyone in the audience has a phone and can capture what really happened.
I have probably one of the most extensive bootleg collections of the original lineup. And Tate...any touches needed were just to make sure it was nailed. Because dude could literally sing anything. All the audience recordings and radio broadcasts that were pure live were unbelievably good. Man, he was just ON FIRE.
Think of it this way. For Operation: LIVEcrime, the band recorded three shows. They could have released any of the three, as they were. In one, Geoff flubbed the lyrics to a song, and Michael broke a string. Outside of that, all of those shows were pristine. That tells you something about the tightness of the band from 1983-1992.
Curious what lyrics he flubbed.
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I don't remember. I want to say it was Jet City Woman, but I think I want to say that because I've seen him screw that up a couple of times personally, not that it was the one during the Livecrime tapings.
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You can stream the newest single "Behind the Walls" on your favorite platform, and the band will be releasing a video later this morning (11 AM EST)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcOYiGUr3Iw
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Ooh, that is nice!
I assume it's Todd playing the keys?
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Tate played the whole Promised Land album in Europe (Belfast). Wished he had done this in the US.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/watch-geoff-tate-performs-queensryches-entire-promised-land-album-at-belfast-concert
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Tate played the whole Promised Land album in Europe (Belfast). Wished he had done this in the US.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/watch-geoff-tate-performs-queensryches-entire-promised-land-album-at-belfast-concert
That's fucking awesome. I'll check it out. Hope it's good. Thanks for posting.
edit - watched some of the clips on that blabbermouth article and read the Eonmusic piece. For the record, Tate did "Out of Mind" on his acoustic tour in 2017, so...it hasn't been almost 30 years since he performed that. lol. As for the clips, I thought it was okay. Hard to tell on cell phones. Someone Else...Tate was oversinging it, but I assume his emotional state...I am going to guess his health scare (he had open heart surgery apparently in June) may have led to his emotions. He's always said Promised Land was his favorite record from QR.
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My all-time favorite album. So much emotion and introspection. Hope he does this show in the U.S. for the album's 30th anniversary in 2024.
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Another great song. Almost feels like something off RFO.
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Tate played the whole Promised Land album in Europe (Belfast). Wished he had done this in the US.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/watch-geoff-tate-performs-queensryches-entire-promised-land-album-at-belfast-concert
Was this his first performance since his heart procedure? It makes sense he’d be a bit more emotional.
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My all-time favorite album. So much emotion and introspection. Hope he does this show in the U.S. for the album's 30th anniversary in 2024.
Fingers crossed.
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You can stream the newest single "Behind the Walls" on your favorite platform, and the band will be releasing a video later this morning (11 AM EST)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcOYiGUr3Iw
The ending solo is very Warning-era.
Not feeling Casey’s drumming, while more than capable, he doesn’t seem to bring anything extra to the band.
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You can stream the newest single "Behind the Walls" on your favorite platform, and the band will be releasing a video later this morning (11 AM EST)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcOYiGUr3Iw
The ending solo is very Warning-era.
Not feeling Casey’s drumming, while more than capable, he doesn’t seem to bring anything extra to the band.
Well, in its current incarnation, I'm not sure anyone is bringing anything extra to the band. Except for Todd, maybe, who seems to be working his ass off to make this work.
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If not for Todd I think this incarnation of QR would have called it quits some years ago.
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If not for Todd I think this incarnation of QR would have called it quits some years ago.
But they can't right? They still owe Geoff money, don't they?
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re: Behind the Walls - so far, the one I like best out of all the three tracks released. It has something familiar (Wilton's signature tone and playing), and something different that appealed to me. I'm curious to see what the record is as a whole. I keep tabs mostly to see what the remaining original members are doing. But good songs are good songs and I dug Behind the Walls.
re: people bringing things to the band - I think that's a bit harsh. I think everyone brings a lot to this incarnation of Queensryche. Eddie has become a much more integral songwriter. Many of the songs we like from this era were ideas and demos from Ed. (Eye9 and Spore come to mind immediately.) Casey brings a different sound to the drums...not sure I like it better, and it certainly isn't as distinct as Scott's sound, but it IS different. Todd also comes at things way more from a metal and 80s melodic rock sound, as opposed to Tate's prog rock approach. Wilton is delivering more than he has since Empire. What he brings is absolutely vital to hearing those echoes of classic Queensryche.
Look, at the end of the day, Queensryche, these days, is a career. It's a brand. I hate talking that way, because I'm a romantic - I like to always remember the artistry of things and the pure creativity of what goes into making songs and records. Band brotherhood and all that. But Queensryche has been around for 40 years. They aren't breaking new ground like the original band tried to do ("no limits"). Instead, they are remembering who they were in their prime, and trying to come up with interesting new material around that, that enables them to continue working and "being" Queensryche.
I'll always be "that guy" tooting the horn of the original group. That was my Queensryche, and my favorite band of all time. But after so many years of other lineups in the rearview, the one thing I can say for certain, is that whoever is writing the songs truly cares about making things true to them and interesting to listeners in the genre. There's no phoning it in. Not to my ears. So I think the members of current Queensryche bring a lot to the table. It's just different, and obviously very subjective on whether you connect with it or not.
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re: people bringing things to the band - I think that's a bit harsh. I think everyone brings a lot to this incarnation of Queensryche. Eddie has become a much more integral songwriter. Many of the songs we like from this era were ideas and demos from Ed. (Eye9 and Spore come to mind immediately.) Casey brings a different sound to the drums...not sure I like it better, and it certainly isn't as distinct as Scott's sound, but it IS different. Todd also comes at things way more from a metal and 80s melodic rock sound, as opposed to Tate's prog rock approach. Wilton is delivering more than he has since Empire. What he brings is absolutely vital to hearing those echoes of classic Queensryche.
Yeah a bit harsh, but T-ski mentioned Grillo and said anything "extra", which I process as who does what that stands out.
Like, to me back in the day, with Tate and Scott, they were the draws for me. They were the "extra" that separated Queensryche for me. I am/was guilty of underrating Degarmo at the time.
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Listened to the new song again, and it is awesome!!
Who's the guitarist with the hat in the video?
They say the first step to recovery is admitting there is a problem...
...I need to stop being a dick when it comes to Queensryche.
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Who's the guitarist with the hat in the video?
Mike Stone, the guitarist they had from Tribe through Mindcrime II. You probably didn't recognize him since the guitar tone on these songs sounds surprisingly not shrill and grating.
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Tate played the whole Promised Land album in Europe (Belfast). Wished he had done this in the US.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/watch-geoff-tate-performs-queensryches-entire-promised-land-album-at-belfast-concert
That's fucking awesome. I'll check it out. Hope it's good. Thanks for posting.
edit - watched some of the clips on that blabbermouth article and read the Eonmusic piece. For the record, Tate did "Out of Mind" on his acoustic tour in 2017, so...it hasn't been almost 30 years since he performed that. lol. As for the clips, I thought it was okay. Hard to tell on cell phones. Someone Else...Tate was oversinging it, but I assume his emotional state...I am going to guess his health scare (he had open heart surgery apparently in June) may have led to his emotions. He's always said Promised Land was his favorite record from QR.
Sounds like a smart man. :tup :tup
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Agree with the comments on Behind the Walls...it's a great song! I have to say, I'm starting to get mildly excited for the album...
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Still not sold on Forest particularly as a second single but yes hearing some tasty throwback in Behind The Walls and liking it a lot \m/
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Here's Geoff and his solo band doing Queensryche's "My Global Mind." - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy6RuygldVI
Not bad, particularly for a guy two months out from open heart surgery. I enjoyed that performance. The background vocals are pitched a little low (I'm used to hearing DeGarmo and Jackson), but overall, that was pretty solid!
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Well, today Digital Noise Alliance went out to the media for early reviews. I've had it for a little while, but don't want to steal the thunder from those writing more in-depth reviews.
All I'll say is this, for now: I think Tormentum, the closing track, which clocks in at 7:30, is one of the best songs from the La Torre era. It was one of three or four tracks on the 11-track record that I hit "repeat" on. I'll be interested to read everyone's initial thoughts. But I think folks will really love the closing tune.
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Sounds good Brian! I'm looking forward to the album.
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Well, today Digital Noise Alliance went out to the media for early reviews. I've had it for a little while, but don't want to steal the thunder from those writing more in-depth reviews.
All I'll say is this, for now: I think Tormentum, the closing track, which clocks in at 7:30, is one of the best songs from the La Torre era. It was one of three or four tracks on the 11-track record that I hit "repeat" on. I'll be interested to read everyone's initial thoughts. But I think folks will really love the closing tune.
Nice. Wasn't anticipating this one much but this has sparked my interest.
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I noticed "Rebel Yell" is listed as a bonus track. Did they really cover Billy Idol?
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I noticed "Rebel Yell" is listed as a bonus track. Did they really cover Billy Idol?
No idea. My version of the album doesn't have it. I assume so though. There's no way that's a Wilton-Jackson pick, so I am assuming it's a Todd pick.
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Good report Samsara. This will be my first QR purchase since American Soldier.
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let me add...Tormentum was by far and away the best track. The rest are fine, but I didn't like any of them nearly as much as that one. I'd go into song descriptions, but I think it's best for people who are going to review the record to publish those first. Last time I did a first listen, track by track account was on Condition Human, and some folks weren't happy I did that... :lol
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I noticed "Rebel Yell" is listed as a bonus track. Did they really cover Billy Idol?
They did!
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let me add...Tormentum was by far and away the best track. The rest are fine, but I didn't like any of them nearly as much as that one. I'd go into song descriptions, but I think it's best for people who are going to review the record to publish those first. Last time I did a first listen, track by track account was on Condition Human, and some folks weren't happy I did that... :lol
Hi Brian! Do you think the rest of the album is basically at the level of the 3 singles released so far?
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Yeah, somewhat. There is one song that has a bit of a thrashy vibe which is cool, and like I said Tormentum was awesome.
I had this overall feeling that the record was a lot of different styles thrown in a blender. For some, that will work really well. For others, it may be off-putting. Obviously, it's an individual thing. I noticed, like I said, some thrashy elements in one song (Sicdeth), I got an "Another Rainy Night" musical vibe from "Chapters," the tune "Out of the Black" reminded me musically of "Breaking the Silence" and "I Don't Believe in Love" somewhat, etc.
Again, I don't want to say much more and steal the thunder from those writing reviews. You can probably tell I'm not sharing my overall opinion. That's on purpose. I'll say what I think (if anyone cares) once the record is out.
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I'm not writing a review, but I have a chat with Todd next week.
Samsara, I agree with your point that this is a very diverse collection of songs. Honestly, in the previous albums with Todd I felt they were way too focused on capturing the classical QR sound, but on this one I have more a sense of "anything goes". And it's a good thing, in my view. There are some really heavy moments on the album, although not at the level of Todd's solo offering from last year.
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Cool! Let's see... those 3 released songs are good, but none of them impressed me as well than the lead singles from the other albums with Todd.
Thank you both for sharing your impressions. :tup
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I'm glad to hear that it sounds like there's more variety on this one. I liked The Verdict, but all the songs sounded kinda similar.
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Just listened to the 3 new songs again and pre-ordered the album. Don't want to be all hyperbolic, gaga but music is a beast unto itself and sometimes it strikes like a title wave. For some reason, these songs are hitting me in this way. If the rest of the album is as strong as the 3 singles this will be my album of the year. Absolutely loving the songs. Feels like re-energized classic QR but also fresh and new. Can't wait for my first full spin!
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I had this overall feeling that the record was a lot of different styles thrown in a blender. For some, that will work really well. For others, it may be off-putting. Obviously, it's an individual thing.
Honestly, that description sounds more like "classic Queensryche" and has me more excited than probably any other description could. During what I consider the "golden age of the band" (pretty much the original lineup era), their hallmark was experimenting with a lot of different styles that would have a lot of fans scratching their heads on first listen to any new release. I loved that.
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Review of Digital Noise Alliance. The reviewer gave it 5 out of 5.
http://knac.com/article.asp?ArticleID=43158
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Review has me pumped because it echoes my thoughts about the new songs. One of them feels like it could have been on RFO. Forest sounds like an Empire song. Using those old amps must have really done some magic.
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Well, the reviewer already spelled BELLEVUE incorrect, and buried his lead somewhere in the third paragraph halfway down the page after all the recent band history. So not quite sure I'd trust the review. :lol
I'd also disagree that Sicdeth is closest to the band's 80s sound. To be honest, it sounds the closest to La Torre's solo album with the thrashier elements in it.
The record is out in two weeks, and folks have had a week or so to review it now and I haven't seen much I felt was accurate. So I am reversing course. Here is an off-the-cuff, small review from me to head into the weekend:
Queensryche's Digital Noise Alliance is an apropos title for the band's latest album. The record sounds like a band throwing differing elements (DNA) of its classic sound to the wall, along with some new twists, and hoping that the blend will stick and resonate with the fanbase.
The result is a mixed bag of songs that makes this listener feel like Queensryche is struggling to find a cohesive direction as they eclipse 40 years as a band.
"Chapters" sounds like it was influenced by "Another Rainy Night (Without You)." "Sicdeth" introduces a bit of thrash metal into Queensryche's sound. "Forest" is an obvious attempt to hit that "Silent Lucidity," "Open Road"-like vibe. "Out of the Black" harkens back to side two of Operation: Mindcrime, conjuring up a feeling of "Breaking the Silence" and "I Don't Believe in Love."
In Queensryche's original form, and even during the years leading up to Geoff Tate's departure in 2012, Queensryche albums always differed from one another. That ambiguity about what to expect was one of Queensryche's hallmarks. But the material within each record had a commonality about it - a vision and cohesive direction. Digital Noise Alliance is the opposite. You feel each song pushing and pulling against one another, style-wise. A collection of tracks that have no unified "sound." It's hard to describe. It's not just a diverse collection of tracks. It's an album that in some ways doesn't know what it wants to be. Perhaps that was by design. But I'm not sure it works.
That said, however, the highlights are outstanding. "Tormentum" is by far and away the gem on Digital Noise Alliance, and quite possibly one of the most adventurous and exciting songs in Queensryche's catalog. It has a darker and violent edge to it, in some ways reminiscent of some of the band's longer epics such as "Suite Sister Mary" or "Condition Human." But despite some similarities, it feels very unique and different for the band. Another standout is "Realms," which feels like a long lost cousin from Fates Warning's 1997 opus A Pleasant Shade of Gray.
Overall, fans of Queensryche's current period with Todd La Torre are sure to enjoy Digital Noise Alliance. The singer showcases different sides of his voice and if you're familiar with his past work and solo material, you can feel his imprint all over the record. Guitarist Michael Wilton's signature sound is also very prominent (likely thanks to Wilton and producer Zeuss using some of the guitarist's vintage gear and settings from Queensryche's heyday), helping tie the material to Queensryche's classic period.
Rating: 3.5 out of 5
*edited to add a comma and fix a word or two.
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I figured the 5 out of 5 review was over-enthusiastic. It would have to be a masterpiece to rate that.
Thanks for the more realistic review, Brian. :tup
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Aside from the songs that were already revealed, I love Sicdeth and Out of the Black. I understand those who feel the album has no direction, because there's a whole range of styles explored here, but honestly I didn't think of it as a disjointed effort.
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While there was an underlying theme of sorts throughout Empire, after Rage then Mindcrime it was an obvious departure from that template and personally like when they change things up so am more keen than was after reading this thanks for the review B
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https://youtu.be/gVphq_cdq4o
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I haven't heard a single note from this new album. I'm a bit excited about this release since I loved The Verdict.
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Well, the reviewer already spelled BELLEVUE incorrect, and buried his lead somewhere in the third paragraph halfway down the page after all the recent band history. So not quite sure I'd trust the review. :lol
Well, if you're going to correct the spelling, you might want to know that the phrase is actually "buried the lede (https://style.mla.org/dont-bury-the-lede/)". :P
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Well, the reviewer already spelled BELLEVUE incorrect, and buried his lead somewhere in the third paragraph halfway down the page after all the recent band history. So not quite sure I'd trust the review. :lol
Well, if you're going to correct the spelling, you might want to know that the phrase is actually "buried the lede (https://style.mla.org/dont-bury-the-lede/)". :P
I'm aware. But both spellings are acceptable. I chose the one that I preferred. Perhaps you didn't know that? Go Google the idiom and and you'll see the history.
One thing's for certain, Bellevue is the official and only spelling of the town in Washington state.
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New review
https://markusheavymusicblog.org/2022/10/04/review-queensryche-digital-noise-alliance/
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Awww, shucks!
(https://i.postimg.cc/yxV0RmDX/ICapture.jpg)
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Nice one mate! :metal
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Amazon delivered the new album...TODAY!!!!
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Amazon delivered the new album...TODAY!!!!
Nice! Interested to hear your thoughts. The reviews across the board (short of the normal fanboy ones) have been fairly positive. Excited to hear it tomorrow.
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Amazon delivered the new album...TODAY!!!!
Day early is cool. Interested in what you think.
Obviously, you've read what I think. Solid 3.5/5.
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Amazon delivered the new album...TODAY!!!!
I got a notification of delivery tomorrow. Usually I get an auto-rip download from Amazon with the physical CD. Did you get one? I figured maybe I'd get the download today and the CD tomorrow.
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If it was Autorip eligible, I think the link shows up in my email after midnight tonight.
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Thanks, Brother.
Did you spin it yet?
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OK..one listen down.
This album made an excellent first impression. It is energetic and heavy. The production is outstanding.
Casey's drumming is confident and strong.
I feel like the first half is stronger than the second half on the whole.
Forest, which has already been released is easily the worst song here. Second place in that regard is Hold On which feels a bit cheesy.
As Sam says, Tormentum is very interesting, but I feel like it just ends out of nowhere. I'll have to hear it again. But it's cool as shit!
What jumped out at me was just how strong the guitar rhythms are. Like I said, the production is stellar so it all sounds good, but the rhythms are nice and chunky.
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Tim,
Yeah. I agree with that. I wasn't a fan of Forest AT ALL when it was released, and think that is probably the weakest song on there. There's another too...I can't remember, that really just seemed weird to me, but not in a good way.
But the record absolutely SOUNDS good. Zeuss did a good job, IMO.
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Tim,
Yeah. I agree with that. I wasn't a fan of Forest AT ALL when it was released, and think that is probably the weakest song on there. There's another too...I can't remember, that really just seemed weird to me, but not in a good way.
But the record absolutely SOUNDS good. Zeuss did a good job, IMO.
The Zeus comment is pretty exciting. Felt like this could have been a record where they would go Alter Bridge and not evolve much on the production side. Stoked for tomorrow!
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Amazon delivered the new album...TODAY!!!!
Wow, lucky you. Mine is supposed to ship between the 13th and 26th.
I may see if they have it in my local record store, then cancel my Amazon order.
Glad to hear you are so impressed after your first listen.
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Liking a lot the new album! The record and mix indeed sound awesome (why Maiden albums can't sound like this?!) and all the instrumentation is really great. From the singles, I agree Forest didn't grow much on me and maybe it's the weakest song here, but it's not bad. I'm happy that they brought back, besides the twin solos, those 2 different guitar solos that I was missing from the previous La Torre albums. And Tormentum is the immediate stand out track, no doubt! Rebel Yell is a great song, but, it's just another cool cover already done again and again.
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My sleep schedule has been screwed for some time and exacerbated by the hurricane. I awoke at 1:51 this morning and couldn't go to sleep so I got up and checked my Amazon library. DNA was there. I grabbed the headphones and sat in the darkness listening.
Some really strong songs on this and then some that may take more spins to sink in. Very enjoyable album with every performance strong. The sonic values are excellent.
Way too early to say but I feel like this may be the best album for me since Empire. There will be many more spins. Tormentum didn't jump up and grab me like it did with Samsara though. And I truly enjoy Forest where others don't.
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That Billy Idol cover is smoking! :metal
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After one spin...
Good first impression, for sure. As has been noted here, the album sounds great.
One early standout for me was Lost in Sorrow - one of the most immediate tracks, for sure, it has the melodies that struck me the most on first listen. Love the guitars in the verses...very simple, but so effective...same for Grillo's drumming.
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Just finished my second listen. Think some combo of realms, tormentum and maybe another (out of the black? Nocturnal lights?) are my favorites.
Hold On sounds like they wrote a song in the vein of the empire album but something is off with the guitars during the chorus. For my guitar players is it a minor chord or something?
Either way, really enjoying it. IMO the best album in the TLT era and not a band that is phoning it in
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The chorus of Out of the Black is really cool, I hope they play that one live.
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Count me among those who are super impressed with Digital Noise Alliance. I think this is far and away the best thing they've done with Todd.
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Count me among those who are super impressed with Digital Noise Alliance. I think this is far and away the best thing they've done with Todd.
+1 :metal
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After a couple of listens, I agree that the production on the instruments is good and the songs are also strong but sorry, I just really do not like Todd's voice. I just can't warm to it, in some ways (sorry to bring it up) it is similar to how I feel about Blaze in Maiden. I am just not sure if Todd has lots of effects or compression or is it autotune or something going on, his voice just doesn't have any warmth or depth. Just something doesn't work for me. I will keep listening though.
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Really dug the album on first listen, but Forest is a terrible song! I think Todd sounds awful on it.
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I've been enjoying the new album all day, there's some really nice tracks here.
It got me thinking, now that we have four albums with Todd La Torre. If you were to make a single CD of the best songs off these four albums, what would your tracklisting be?
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After a couple of listens, I agree that the production on the instruments is good and the songs are also strong but sorry, I just really do not like Todd's voice. I just can't warm to it, in some ways (sorry to bring it up) it is similar to how I feel about Blaze in Maiden. I am just not sure if Todd has lots of effects or compression or is it autotune or something going on, his voice just doesn't have any warmth or depth. Just something doesn't work for me. I will keep listening though.
Same here. I love that Todd has rejuvenated the band, but ya, not a fan of his voice either and I agree about the warmth and the depth comment, it just isn’t there.
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This is only happening because of the comparison to Tate. I’ve said it before and I will say it again, but I think Todd would sound so perfect fronting Metal Church. he even did a duet with Mike Howe on a Metal Church song before Mike died. That cut was so killer!
Trying to follow up Mike Howe would be no contest. But because he’s following up Tate in Queensr˙che, everybody has to make a comparison instead of just taking him on his own merits.
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Maybe he is singing with Metal Church.
They’re working on a new album with a yet unnamed singer. I saw an article recently where Kirk said he couldn’t name him just yet.
I doubt it’s Todd though.
Maybe Todd Michael Hall. That would be good too.
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Maybe he is singing with Metal Church.
They’re working on a new album with a yet unnamed singer. I saw an article recently where Kirk said he couldn’t name him just yet.
I doubt it’s Todd though.
Maybe Todd Michael Hall. That would be good too.
I subscribed to the Metal Church page and I haven’t heard a thing! Where is the source that they’re working on a new album?
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This is only happening because of the comparison to Tate. I’ve said it before and I will say it again, but I think Todd would sound so perfect fronting Metal Church. he even did a duet with Mike Howe on a Metal Church song before Mike died. That cut was so killer!
Trying to follow up Mike Howe would be no contest. But because he’s following up Tate in Queensr˙che, everybody has to make a comparison instead of just taking him on his own merits.
Personally, I think Todd would be way better suited vocally for Metal Church. Mike Howe and Geoff Tate are very different types of singers, and I think Todd's voice, naturally, would be better suited for Metal Church. Todd loves singing with some grit and rasp, and honestly, that's perfect for that band.
After a couple of listens, I agree that the production on the instruments is good and the songs are also strong but sorry, I just really do not like Todd's voice. I just can't warm to it, in some ways (sorry to bring it up) it is similar to how I feel about Blaze in Maiden. I am just not sure if Todd has lots of effects or compression or is it autotune or something going on, his voice just doesn't have any warmth or depth. Just something doesn't work for me. I will keep listening though.
Same here. I love that Todd has rejuvenated the band, but ya, not a fan of his voice either and I agree about the warmth and the depth comment, it just isn’t there.
+2 on the warmth and depth comment. That's just not where is voice is. I got killed for being "negative" when I've said this very thing, but facts are facts. Todd is a really good singer. But his natural voice is not as warm and powerful as the man he replaced. That's not hate, that's just fact. And there's nothing wrong with that at all.
That's why that thing about Metal Church - probably not likely, but it would actually be pretty damn perfect.
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Maybe he is singing with Metal Church.
They’re working on a new album with a yet unnamed singer. I saw an article recently where Kirk said he couldn’t name him just yet.
I doubt it’s Todd though.
Maybe Todd Michael Hall. That would be good too.
I subscribed to the Metal Church page and I haven’t heard a thing! Where is the source that they’re working on a new album?
Maybe you should've subscribed to The TAC Mailing List instead! :P :lol
https://bravewords.com/news/metal-churchs-kurdt-vanderhoof-says-they-have-a-new-singer-and-there-will-be-new-album-in-2023-i-wanted-to-complete-the-album-in-honour-of-mike-howe
https://www.metal-rules.com/2022/09/23/kurdt-vanderhoof-talks-new-metal-church-music-mike-howe-and-more/
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This is only happening because of the comparison to Tate. I’ve said it before and I will say it again, but I think Todd would sound so perfect fronting Metal Church. he even did a duet with Mike Howe on a Metal Church song before Mike died. That cut was so killer!
Trying to follow up Mike Howe would be no contest. But because he’s following up Tate in Queensr˙che, everybody has to make a comparison instead of just taking him on his own merits.
Personally, I think Todd would be way better suited vocally for Metal Church. Mike Howe and Geoff Tate are very different types of singers, and I think Todd's voice, naturally, would be better suited for Metal Church. Todd loves singing with some grit and rasp, and honestly, that's perfect for that band.
After a couple of listens, I agree that the production on the instruments is good and the songs are also strong but sorry, I just really do not like Todd's voice. I just can't warm to it, in some ways (sorry to bring it up) it is similar to how I feel about Blaze in Maiden. I am just not sure if Todd has lots of effects or compression or is it autotune or something going on, his voice just doesn't have any warmth or depth. Just something doesn't work for me. I will keep listening though.
Same here. I love that Todd has rejuvenated the band, but ya, not a fan of his voice either and I agree about the warmth and the depth comment, it just isn’t there.
+2 on the warmth and depth comment. That's just not where is voice is. I got killed for being "negative" when I've said this very thing, but facts are facts. Todd is a really good singer. But his natural voice is not as warm and powerful as the man he replaced. That's not hate, that's just fact. And there's nothing wrong with that at all.
That's why that thing about Metal Church - probably not likely, but it would actually be pretty damn perfect.
Yes, I am also not trying to hate on him. I am actually really enjoying this album and still listening to it. The songs are there, apart from Forest which I am not much of a fan of. That song sounds like a ballad throwback to the late 80s/early 90s.
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LOVING this album! I think Todd sounds great. So many catchy melodies and ear worm choruses. I totally disagree with the comments about his voice not fitting QR.
I've got 4 full spins now and it keeps getting better.
Did you
Ever
Love me
Did you
Ever
Love you
My favorite album of the year so far with Megadeth a close 2nd.
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It got me thinking, now that we have four albums with Todd La Torre. If you were to make a single CD of the best songs off these four albums, what would your tracklisting be?
I would really need to run through all of the albums to make a list. But I'mma gonna do it.
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All this talk about Todd's voice and all. I think he's been awesome on every album he's done with Queensryche. It did feel at first that he was trying to channel Tate, but,,,,he just sounds very similar, and that shouldn't be held against him. He's an amazing vocalist, and if this band was called anything other than Queensryche, it wouldn't even be an issue.
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Haven't listened to the new one but the negativity around Todd kind of astounds me. I think he's been great for them personally.
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I've really been enjoying the new record - Sicdeth, Tormentum and Behind the Walls are my favorites so far.
I just wish the band would play more of the newer material live. I miss those days of Queensryche headlining tours, where you'd hear them play 6-7 new songs. I'll be seeing them open for Priest in a couple of weeks for the 11th time, and I'm only expecting one of the singles from this record to be played....and it better not be Forest.
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I've really been enjoying the new record - Sicdeth, Tormentum and Behind the Walls are my favorites so far.
I just wish the band would play more of the newer material live. I miss those days of Queensryche headlining tours, where you'd hear them play 6-7 new songs. I'll be seeing them open for Priest in a couple of weeks for the 11th time, and I'm only expecting one of the singles from this record to be played....and it better not be Forest.
Funny enough, I'm actually listening to the album right now, and was literally thinking the exact same thing. I wouldn't even consider going to see them if they were just playing 80's stuff. If they played a Toddryche-centric set, I'd definitely be interested in seeing them.
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I have no issues with Todd at all. Maybe he's not as good as Tate was at his best but I imagine very very few are. Live I've heard him sounding a little tired here and there, but generally think he does a great job.
I've listened to the new album twice, not super dedicated listens though. It seems good, but I need to give it more attention.
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I've been enjoying the new album all day, there's some really nice tracks here.
It got me thinking, now that we have four albums with Todd La Torre. If you were to make a single CD of the best songs off these four albums, what would your tracklisting be?
X2/Where Dreams Go To Die
Spore
Open Road
Eye9
Bulletproof
Hourglass
Just Us
Blood of the Levant
Launder the Conscience
Chapters
Lost In Sorrow
Nocturnal Light
Out of the Black
Tormentum
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Solid album through and through and Todd sounds great :metal
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All this talk about Todd's voice and all. I think he's been awesome on every album he's done with Queensryche. It did feel at first that he was trying to channel Tate, but,,,,he just sounds very similar, and that shouldn't be held against him. He's an amazing vocalist, and if this band was called anything other than Queensryche, it wouldn't even be an issue.
False. If this band were called something else I wouldn’t be interested in it. There are numerous bands I find interesting musically but am turned off by the vocals. This would fit in that group.
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All this talk about Todd's voice and all. I think he's been awesome on every album he's done with Queensryche. It did feel at first that he was trying to channel Tate, but,,,,he just sounds very similar, and that shouldn't be held against him. He's an amazing vocalist, and if this band was called anything other than Queensryche, it wouldn't even be an issue.
False. If this band were called something else I wouldn’t be interested in it. There are numerous bands I find interesting musically but am turned off by the vocals. This would fit in that group.
Huh. I've had to go to harsh vocals in the past few years to find music that is interesting musically.
So you just don't like Todd's vocals at all, is that what you're saying? That's cool.
I just generally think that the fact that he is so similar to Tate can complicate the listening.
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I just got a listen to the new album. I like it. Todd is an amazing vocalist and frontman! Need more time with it before I can really give it a fair opinion. So far the first QR with Todd is my favorite.
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New video for Hold On..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygevLfVaaR8
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New video for Hold On..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygevLfVaaR8
This is one song from the album I'm having a little more trouble warming up to...I guess it's because it relatively less catchy overall, I'm not sure. Parts of it are quite nice, but something in the melodies/chords doesn't resolve in a super-satisfying way. It's kind of cool sounding, though. And the bass and drums are great.
BTW, after further listens I can say I'm quite enjoying the album overall. Even if it's not particularly complex, I find it gets better the more time I spend with it. Lost in Sorrow and Behind the Walls my current favorite tunes.
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Just finished my first listen. Not sure what to think. It's not fair to judge on one listen with an album like this. There was cool stuff and some stuff that made me drift. The production is great though.
The Rebel Yell cover is a bit strange in the context of this but Todd kills this, wow.
I will say, Forest is awful, just awful.
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New video for Hold On..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygevLfVaaR8
This is one song from the album I'm having a little more trouble warming up to...I guess it's because it relatively less catchy overall, I'm not sure. Parts of it are quite nice, but something in the melodies/chords doesn't resolve in a super-satisfying way. It's kind of cool sounding, though. And the bass and drums are great.
BTW, after further listens I can say I'm quite enjoying the album overall. Even if it's not particularly complex, I find it gets better the more time I spend with it. Lost in Sorrow and Behind the Walls my current favorite tunes.
Yeah Forest and Hold On are my least liked on the album. Why with songs such as Lost In Sorrow and Chapters they would release Hold On as a single baffles me but from the YT comments seems there's plenty love for it so clearly am in the minority?
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Just finished my first listen. Not sure what to think. It's not fair to judge on one listen with an album like this. There was cool stuff and some stuff that made me drift. The production is great though.
This is where I am. The CD finally arrived from my Century Media pre-order and I am just now getting around to finishing my first listen.
Immediate first impression is that I like The Verdict better. But there seems to be enough here to dig into to give it some repeated listens and see what sticks.
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After 4-5 listens it's definitely been a fun ride. As mentioned by many the production is excellent and I'm picking new subtleties and nuances with each listen. I feel like Michael has really stepped his game up with his guitar playing (I don't know how much Parker contributed before but I liked that duo). Casey's drumming is really good.
My main problem that has been consistent in the TLT era are some of the melodies/choruses or lack of. Wolfking talked about drifting and that's the same feeling I get - like a song is setup really well for a big or catchy chorus then it's flat or it goes in a totally weird direction. That's one area I wish Todd would get some help on. Not sure if that's a band/Zeuss problem or what.
Overall I really enjoy the album and think it will be in my top 10 for the year.
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My main problem that has been consistent in the TLT era are some of the melodies/choruses or lack of. Wolfking talked about drifting and that's the same feeling I get - like a song is setup really well for a big or catchy chorus then it's flat or it goes in a totally weird direction. That's one area I wish Todd would get some help on. Not sure if that's a band/Zeuss problem or what.
Glad to see I'm not the only one feeling this way. I feel there's a lack of "hook" to the choruses. Not that every chorus has to be a big singalong chorus, but the number of memorable ones seem few and far between.
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My main problem that has been consistent in the TLT era are some of the melodies/choruses or lack of. Wolfking talked about drifting and that's the same feeling I get - like a song is setup really well for a big or catchy chorus then it's flat or it goes in a totally weird direction. That's one area I wish Todd would get some help on. Not sure if that's a band/Zeuss problem or what.
Glad to see I'm not the only one feeling this way. I feel there's a lack of "hook" to the choruses. Not that every chorus has to be a big singalong chorus, but the number of memorable ones seem few and far between.
I think I can get on board with this. Probably why I really enjoy the albums while listening, yet fail to really recall much afterward.
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My main problem that has been consistent in the TLT era are some of the melodies/choruses or lack of. Wolfking talked about drifting and that's the same feeling I get - like a song is setup really well for a big or catchy chorus then it's flat or it goes in a totally weird direction. That's one area I wish Todd would get some help on. Not sure if that's a band/Zeuss problem or what.
Glad to see I'm not the only one feeling this way. I feel there's a lack of "hook" to the choruses. Not that every chorus has to be a big singalong chorus, but the number of memorable ones seem few and far between.
There were times after the chorus I was thinking, 'where's the chorus, wait, was that it?'
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It never ceases to amaze me how differently we all hear, connect to and absorb music. So many people mentioning the lack of hooks and choruses on this album and yet I have all of them stuck in my head on nonstop repeat. Could be because I've heard it 6 times now 😀.
Meanwhile, Maiden's last album that so many people loved is just one giant repetitive slog for me.
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One listen in - really solid album, and while some have said it feels like a lot of different ideas thrown at the wall, for me it feels much more consistent than The Verdict. Condition Human is still my top pick for Todd era Queensryche.
Can't wait to hear them play none of these songs live! Well, maybe one track if we're lucky. I'll know on Thursday when I see them open for Judas Priest!
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re: What you all are saying about hooks in the choruses...
>>>This is something that I've heard repeatedly from people since the first TLT-fronted record. I agree completely.
re: Playing new stuff on tour
>>>QR should use the Priest tour to showcase its material with Todd. They have four albums with him and they are an opening act, so fucking experiment and go for it. Open with Queen of the Reich, play seven songs from the La Torre era that fit the Priest crowd, then close with Eyes of a Stranger and Take Hold of the Flame. 10 songs, 60 minutes (or thereabouts, assuming they get an hour), and you use the set to really see where your newer material sits with an audience of old school metalheads. They won't though - they never do. They've become a nostalgia act for the most part. Which I understand to a degree, but it's a huge disappointment. If other bands in the same ballpark (Fates Warning, Dream Theater) can go out and play their new material, why can't Queensryche?
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>>>QR should use the Priest tour to showcase its material with Todd. They have four albums with him and they are an opening act, so fucking experiment and go for it. Open with Queen of the Reich, play seven songs from the La Torre era that fit the Priest crowd, then close with Eyes of a Stranger and Take Hold of the Flame. 10 songs, 60 minutes (or thereabouts, assuming they get an hour), and you use the set to really see where your newer material sits with an audience of old school metalheads. They won't though - they never do. They've become a nostalgia act for the most part. Which I understand to a degree, but it's a huge disappointment. If other bands in the same ballpark (Fates Warning, Dream Theater) can go out and play their new material, why can't Queensryche?
I looked up their set from the spring tour with Priest and it was 4 songs from the Warning, 3 from RFO, 3 from Mindcrime, one from the EP (QoTR) and one from Empire (Empire). I'm guessing we'll see the same for the fall tour, maybe one of the heavier singles from the new album since it just came out.
Since I haven't seen them since 2013, it will give me a chance to maybe hear NM156, Screaming in Digital and the Mindcrime title track with Todd, if those stay in the set. Other than that, it's still the same old songs that they've been rotating in and out for 10 years, where they choose to satisfy the older metalheads in the crowd, rather than promoting who they are now.
I did see Todd's interview with Brave Words, where he says that they plan to go on a headlining tour in early 2023, so that's when we'll probably see another set with more new material.
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My first impression of the new album is really good after just one spin. Love the Billy Idol cover of Rebel Yell at the end. Tastefully done with their own little hooks in all the right places. Very cool. :tup
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The thing that stands out the most to me from the new songs I've heard so far is that I can't tell just from listening that Mike Stone plays on them. And that's a good thing. I mean, as far as skill and ability to play the songs, I've never had a problem with him at all. What I have had a problem with in the past is his guitar tone. FAR to shrill and jarring. That seems to be reined in and is blending more with Wilton's and the band's more "classic" tone.
So far, I've really enjoyed the LaTorre albums. None are going to make my top 3 of the classic era. But each has felt like it was better than anything post-HITNF, which is a really good thing.
As far as what they are playing and are likely to play on tour, I'll just say that it's sad, and I'm not going to beat a dead horse. There is plenty of room to compromise and find a way to play the old, nostalgic material that draws the old-school fans to the shows AND to represent the new material. They always choose not to and to instead lean heavily on the nostalgia. It is what it is.
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The thing that stands out the most to me from the new songs I've heard so far is that I can't tell just from listening that Mike Stone plays on them. And that's a good thing. I mean, as far as skill and ability to play the songs, I've never had a problem with him at all. What I have had a problem with in the past is his guitar tone. FAR to shrill and jarring. That seems to be reined in and is blending more with Wilton's and the band's more "classic" tone.
So far, I've really enjoyed the LaTorre albums. None are going to make my top 3 of the classic era. But each has felt like it was better than anything post-HITNF, which is a really good thing.
As far as what they are playing and are likely to play on tour, I'll just say that it's sad, and I'm not going to beat a dead horse. There is plenty of room to compromise and find a way to play the old, nostalgic material that draws the old-school fans to the shows AND to represent the new material. They always choose not to and to instead lean heavily on the nostalgia. It is what it is.
I've been wondering what your thoughts were.
To me it's a combo of RFO and Empire. The 3rd and 4th full spins really start to reveal the melodies. I hope you get a chance to sink your teeth into it.
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Yeah, I got the vibes from those albums too. It seems like they've been doing a pretty good job of trying to keep the material as fresh as possible, but sprinkling in those subtle reminders of the glory days. As a veteran fan, I appreciate them doing that.
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Not ready to chime in on the new album yet. I will say on initial listens, it seems a little more progressive and ambitious than the previous few albums. Less like they’re trying to remake classic era Queensryche and more like they’re doing something a bit different. I thought that when I first heard In Extremis, that it actually didn’t sound like Queensr˙che but was still a cool song in its own right. The others are taking a while to sink in so will wait before giving my verdict (no pun intended).
On the subject of TLT, I saw him when they toured the self-titled album and my jaw was on the floor. He sang those crazy Tate songs from the very early records absolutely note perfect. If I shut my eyes I could’ve been listening to Tate in his prime. One of the best vocal performances I’ve ever seen live, maybe even THE best. His voice sounds a little thinner these days and this again sounds like the first album where he isn’t doing a Geoff Tate impersonation and I like that. I’m just not sure how strong the songs are yet. The self-titled album is probably still my favourite of the TLT era, if only the production wasn’t horrible and headache inducing.
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Heard an interview with Todd. He said when they tour next spring they will be playing 5 or so songs from the new album and focusing on the last 4 albums.
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Heard an interview with Todd. He said when they tour next spring they will be playing 5 or so songs from the new album and focusing on the last 4 albums.
Now this would get me to consider going. I have zero interest in them playing anything old other than a few tracks.
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Heard an interview with Todd. He said when they tour next spring they will be playing 5 or so songs from the new album and focusing on the last 4 albums.
About time really.
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sadly I dont find this new cd even interesting, all the songs remind me of old Malice, TNT, Accept. etc.
I cant put my finger on it but it also feels cheezy to me, idk.. I cant see this as "fresh" ,in my opinion a CD like Firepower by JP was somehow Fresh and not cheezy to my ears I LOVED IT... the new Papa Roach to many is polarizing but I find it very very cool and unique. I love how they change and do cool things
I for some reason always feel that this new QR is always just repackaging a sound they think their fans want instead of something new and authentic, I guess its for new listeners, younger teenagers in some ways to enjoy as they missed the band that made the name....IDK,...just my humble opinions.. I get that its got some sizzle and I do think production is nice, but the songs just dont grab me or want to listen to over and over...in some ways the QR name again my opinion forces that comparo where without the name id still not like much but would not have to compare it to the old QR
just my opinion and my ears opinion : )
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The thing that stands out the most to me from the new songs I've heard so far is that I can't tell just from listening that Mike Stone plays on them. And that's a good thing. I mean, as far as skill and ability to play the songs, I've never had a problem with him at all. What I have had a problem with in the past is his guitar tone. FAR to shrill and jarring. That seems to be reined in and is blending more with Wilton's and the band's more "classic" tone.
So far, I've really enjoyed the LaTorre albums. None are going to make my top 3 of the classic era. But each has felt like it was better than anything post-HITNF, which is a really good thing.
As far as what they are playing and are likely to play on tour, I'll just say that it's sad, and I'm not going to beat a dead horse. There is plenty of room to compromise and find a way to play the old, nostalgic material that draws the old-school fans to the shows AND to represent the new material. They always choose not to and to instead lean heavily on the nostalgia. It is what it is.
I've been wondering what your thoughts were.
To me it's a combo of RFO and Empire. The 3rd and 4th full spins really start to reveal the melodies. I hope you get a chance to sink your teeth into it.
Yeah, I can see that. Out of the Black gives me Mindcrime vibes as well (IDBIL and BTS come to mind). I would say for the whole thing, I definitely get the vibe of "classic QR mixed with modern playing/production" (a little Warning here, a little Rage there...), as the band described it. Hard to say right now where I would rank it, but I can say I generally like what I am hearing and say it stands up to the other Todd-era albums. To me, it may be the most consistent of the bunch. My early take is that I definitely like it better than the last one (and I liked that one okay). Solid effort, and may be my favorite of Stone's playing (assuming he is actually on the album).
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The thing that stands out the most to me from the new songs I've heard so far is that I can't tell just from listening that Mike Stone plays on them. And that's a good thing. I mean, as far as skill and ability to play the songs, I've never had a problem with him at all. What I have had a problem with in the past is his guitar tone. FAR to shrill and jarring. That seems to be reined in and is blending more with Wilton's and the band's more "classic" tone.
So far, I've really enjoyed the LaTorre albums. None are going to make my top 3 of the classic era. But each has felt like it was better than anything post-HITNF, which is a really good thing.
As far as what they are playing and are likely to play on tour, I'll just say that it's sad, and I'm not going to beat a dead horse. There is plenty of room to compromise and find a way to play the old, nostalgic material that draws the old-school fans to the shows AND to represent the new material. They always choose not to and to instead lean heavily on the nostalgia. It is what it is.
I've been wondering what your thoughts were.
To me it's a combo of RFO and Empire. The 3rd and 4th full spins really start to reveal the melodies. I hope you get a chance to sink your teeth into it.
Yeah, I can see that. Out of the Black gives me Mindcrime vibes as well (IDBIL and BTS come to mind). I would say for the whole thing, I definitely get the vibe of "classic QR mixed with modern playing/production" (a little Warning here, a little Rage there...), as the band described it. Hard to say right now where I would rank it, but I can say I generally like what I am hearing and say it stands up to the other Todd-era albums. To me, it may be the most consistent of the bunch. My early take is that I definitely like it better than the last one (and I liked that one okay). Solid effort, and may be my favorite of Stone's playing (assuming he is actually on the album).
I'll have to check out the interviews, but I think Michael did a majority of the guitar work and Stone came in and laid down solos only.
And Casey responded on the QR facebook yesterday that he helped write two songs which is really cool as well.
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Yes, Casey co-wrote Forest and Hold On, with Eddie/Michael/Todd. Interesting that the 2 most RFO-ish songs on the album were composed by Eddie only, Nocturnal Light and Realms.
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Yes, Casey co-wrote Forest and Hold On, with Eddie/Michael/Todd. Interesting that the 2 most RFO-ish songs on the album were composed by Eddie only, Nocturnal Light and Realms.
Can you post the complete writing credits for all the songs? I don't have the CD itself. Thank you!
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I just want to chime in and say that the Rebel Yell cover is NOT doing it for me.
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I just want to chime in and say that the Rebel Yell cover is NOT doing it for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNwKelSZNBE
This is the Rebel Yell cover that I love the most. Steel Panther and Billy Ray Cyrus, who rocks the hell out of the song! I do like QR's version though - it's a fun cover.
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Yes, Casey co-wrote Forest and Hold On, with Eddie/Michael/Todd. Interesting that the 2 most RFO-ish songs on the album were composed by Eddie only, Nocturnal Light and Realms.
Can you post the complete writing credits for all the songs? I don't have the CD itself. Thank you!
According to Spotify:
1. Eddie/Michael/Todd
2. E/M
3. M/T
4. M/T
5. M/T
6. E
7. E/M/T
8. Casey/E/M/T
9. E
10. C/E/M/T
11. M/T
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Thanks for posting.
Nice to see such a full band effort on this.
Cool to see Eddie get the full credit on Realms. I thought that was one of the better ones on here.
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Over the last couple days, I've done a run-through of the four La Torre-fronted records, for the fun of it...
Condition Human probably edges it out as my favorite. It has enough of that cool, vintage Queensryche "weirdness" - mixed in with the rediscovered metal attitude - to make it the most engaging and interesting listen out of the four. The Verdict is the one that stuck with me the least. Can't quite put my finger on it...it's pretty good, but the songs generally don't jump out. The S/T is very good, but it feels they could've spent a little more time on it (although I understand they wanted to get something out relatively quickly). It's not just that the album is short...sometimes the songs themselves feel like they could have been fleshed out more.
Early to figure out exactly where DNA stands...as of now, I'd say second favorite, but I'm enjoying it a ton, so who knows...it might climb further up. It has my favorite production of the four, and there's a great balance of different facets of the QR sound. Nothing groundbreaking, of course, but I feel the songwriting hit the right spots.
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Over the last couple days, I've done a run-through of the four La Torre-fronted records, for the fun of it...
I am planning on doing the same.
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.
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I just want to chime in and say that the Rebel Yell cover is NOT doing it for me.
(https://i2.wp.com/d1udarupsbqerd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/04094907/Billy-Idol-4-29-2018-1.jpg?ssl=1)
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Thanks for posting.
Nice to see such a full band effort on this.
Cool to see Eddie get the full credit on Realms. I thought that was one of the better ones on here.
:tup
The 2 Eddie's songs are among the best on the album, for sure.
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Thus far I'm ranking this easily the best TLT-era Queensryche album.
I think there's better individual songs on prior albums but this is the first of his era that I feel is strong from start-to-finish, though I can do without the Rebel Yell cover.
I'd just love it if they could talk DeGarmo into a production role to just iron out some of the clumsy lyrics that persist since Tate left (let's just pretend D2C never happened) and sprinkle a bit of magic over some of the guitar arrangements. He doesn't have to do anything more than that, but it wouldn't go wrong.
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Is Rebell yell a bonus track or legitimately a part of the album? I ended every listen with Tormentor. ;D
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Is Rebell yell a bonus track or legitimately a part of the album? I ended every listen with Tormentor. ;D
They covered a Billy Idol song and a W.A.S.P. song? ;D
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Is Rebell yell a bonus track or legitimately a part of the album? I ended every listen with Tormentor. ;D
They covered a Billy Idol song and a W.A.S.P. song? ;D
They actually covered a Kreator song. :P
Well, now I'm not editing the post. :lol
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Is Rebell yell a bonus track or legitimately a part of the album? I ended every listen with Tormentor. ;D
On the physical cd it is clearly labeled as a bonus track.
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Is Rebell yell a bonus track or legitimately a part of the album? I ended every listen with Tormentor. ;D
They covered a Billy Idol song and a W.A.S.P. song? ;D
They actually covered a Kreator song. :P
Well, now I'm not editing the post. :lol
Don't you hate it when you realise you've made a blunder and can't edit because some asshole has quoted and called you out on it already. :lol
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Is Rebell yell a bonus track or legitimately a part of the album? I ended every listen with Tormentor. ;D
They covered a Billy Idol song and a W.A.S.P. song? ;D
They actually covered a Kreator song. :P
Well, now I'm not editing the post. :lol
Don't you hate it when you realise you've made a blunder and can't edit because some asshole has quoted and called you out on it already. :lol
That's actually one of my favorite things. ;D
Is Rebell yell a bonus track or legitimately a part of the album? I ended every listen with Tormentor. ;D
On the physical cd it is clearly labeled as a bonus track.
Thank God. It would actually drag the album down a point. :lol
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Is Rebell yell a bonus track or legitimately a part of the album? I ended every listen with Tormentor. ;D
It's listed on the CD as a bonus track so expect no it wasn't supposed to sound anything like the album just a cover song ;)
Had it been back when it probably would've been a B-Side for one of the singles but we no longer have the pleasure...
ETA just saw Kwyjibo beat me to it and already answered Cheers :tup
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I'd just love it if they could talk DeGarmo into a production role to just iron out some of the clumsy lyrics that persist since Tate left (let's just pretend D2C never happened) and sprinkle a bit of magic over some of the guitar arrangements. He doesn't have to do anything more than that, but it wouldn't go wrong.
No chance. If DeGarmo wanted anything to do with either current QR or Tate himself, he would have done it long ago. He's made it pretty clear that for him, it's about the original band and their chemistry and brotherhood. I, for one, am glad. Let this version of the band be what they are. They are solid. Maybe not my preference, but they do just fine on their own.
re: Rebel Yell
I think it's a quirky, but fun, cover. I'm not sure I would have put it on the record as a "bonus track." While well marked as a bonus song, it sort of...takes away from the impact of the album closer. But as Wardy said...we no longer have CD singles and b-sides. :sad:
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But as Wardy said...we no longer have CD singles and b-sides. :sad:
They could have made it a casette exclusive! :biggrin:
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Yeah, consider me one of the rare few who has no problem with the Rebel Yell cover just for there mere fact it was the last thing I ever guessed they would do, and honestly, it turned out quite well. I am quite pleased with the album overall. An album like this probably would have never happened with Tate still in the band.
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An album like this probably would have never happened with Tate still in the band.
I see statements like this all the time, and to be honest, while true, it's not just Tate. The original band never repeated themselves. Every single record had this vibe/direction that differed from what came before it. All of those records had hallmarks of the band's sound throughout, but they each had a different feel to them, which in and of itself, was also a hallmark of classic Queensryche. It was one of the things that for me, personally, drew me to the band. I loved the evolutionary ride.
With TLT, I have felt that the band, stylistically, using the EP through Empire as a template (and honestly, I think they only do a PL track or two live because the fans love it, not because they particularly want to - TLT has said more than once PL wasn't really his thing), have not really grown much from the self-titled 2013 album to Digital Noise Alliance. They've sort of created this sound of their own using the core QR albums as template, and infusing TLT's writing and interests. And what we've gotten is consistency and a bit of repetitiveness. And THAT is something we would not have gotten out of Tate, nor with the full original band.
And consistency is good, and much better than what we got with Q2k, OPMC 2, AS and D2C. But I'd argue that Queensryche, while creating music more in the style of what got them noticed, has also lost a bit of its authenticity as a result. Not that that is bad - it works for them and most of the fanbase. Honestly, at Wilton and Jackson's age, reinventing the wheel every record would hurt them, not help them. So I get that. But as I listen to DNA, I hear a band that is unwilling to break new ground and try new things. And if I was still a hardcore fan (as most know, my passion is for the original band's catalog, not this lineup), that would bother me.
Yes, I could be reading way too much into it - it's a set of songs. But I don't hear a lot of growth the last few records, and while growth may not be their goal (I have no idea), I know it's significantly less interesting for me as a listener. Again, I'm not saying DNA is bad - it's not. It's a good record. But my original thought, even after many more spins, still stands. To me, DNA sounds like a band that is not sure of where to go, and is treading water.
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Sam is right. Every album by the original band is sonically unique.
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I'm at the show in Connecticut tonight and they are currently playing Behind the Walls. Badass!
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Now they are playing In Extremis!
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An album like this probably would have never happened with Tate still in the band.
I see statements like this all the time, and to be honest, while true, it's not just Tate. The original band never repeated themselves. Every single record had this vibe/direction that differed from what came before it. All of those records had hallmarks of the band's sound throughout, but they each had a different feel to them, which in and of itself, was also a hallmark of classic Queensryche. It was one of the things that for me, personally, drew me to the band. I loved the evolutionary ride.
With TLT, I have felt that the band, stylistically, using the EP through Empire as a template (and honestly, I think they only do a PL track or two live because the fans love it, not because they particularly want to - TLT has said more than once PL wasn't really his thing), have not really grown much from the self-titled 2013 album to Digital Noise Alliance. They've sort of created this sound of their own using the core QR albums as template, and infusing TLT's writing and interests. And what we've gotten is consistency and a bit of repetitiveness. And THAT is something we would not have gotten out of Tate, nor with the full original band.
And consistency is good, and much better than what we got with Q2k, OPMC 2, AS and D2C. But I'd argue that Queensryche, while creating music more in the style of what got them noticed, has also lost a bit of its authenticity as a result. Not that that is bad - it works for them and most of the fanbase. Honestly, at Wilton and Jackson's age, reinventing the wheel every record would hurt them, not help them. So I get that. But as I listen to DNA, I hear a band that is unwilling to break new ground and try new things. And if I was still a hardcore fan (as most know, my passion is for the original band's catalog, not this lineup), that would bother me.
Yes, I could be reading way too much into it - it's a set of songs. But I don't hear a lot of growth the last few records, and while growth may not be their goal (I have no idea), I know it's significantly less interesting for me as a listener. Again, I'm not saying DNA is bad - it's not. It's a good record. But my original thought, even after many more spins, still stands. To me, DNA sounds like a band that is not sure of where to go, and is treading water.
I agree.... I think thats why I simply have little to no interest as it doesnt have that "magic" or shall we say "curiosity" element in my opinion of course.. we know many bands are guilty of the same so it is what it is. for me they were always more than that but as you said at this stage it appears they will not be taking real musical risks.
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Now they are playing In Extremis!
Glad you are enjoying the show.. I have buddy there , he is going for JP, I hope Rob has his voice tonite,,
ENJOY!!!!!!
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Me too. He was sick last time I saw him (tonight is only my second JP show).
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Me too. He was sick last time I saw him (tonight is only my second JP show).
Have a great show what a treat to see JP and Rob... Im blessed saw them forever since Hellbent.. they were my fav band
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Is Rebell yell a bonus track or legitimately a part of the album? I ended every listen with Tormentor. ;D
They covered a Billy Idol song and a W.A.S.P. song? ;D
:lol :lol :lol
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Here's In Extremis and Behind the Walls from the start of the tour with JP last night.
In Extremis - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94VQqTSvGyY
Behind the Walls - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQZha3_M74g
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Looked like a fun set list last night to kick off the Priest tour.
QR debuted two new songs in their 11-song set - "Behind the Walls" and "In Extremis."
Loved mini set of tunes from The Warning near the top, with "Warning," "En Force" and "NM 156." I swear, that's their second best album after Mindcrime. Even with crappy mix, the moment I put the intended song order version of that record on, it just fucking slays.
Sounded like the band is in top form too. Glad to see it. :metal
p.s. Deathless beat me to it as I was typing, so I just hit enter anyway. :lol
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Not sure how long he has been doing this, but there were a bunch of deep, gutteral growls and screams sprinkled throughout the QR set, including in Queen of the Ryche. I liked it!
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Here's In Extremis and Behind the Walls from the start of the tour with JP last night.
In Extremis - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94VQqTSvGyY
Behind the Walls - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQZha3_M74g
Nice to see them doing that, even though the album just dropped and most people won't be familiar with the new songs yet. I wish it was more from the TLT era, but at least they are representing a bit. And they sound pretty good. Stone's guitar tone, which was one of my big concerns, actually sounds good to me.
Not sure how long he has been doing this, but there were a bunch of deep, gutteral growls and screams sprinkled throughout the QR set, including in Queen of the Ryche. I liked it!
Yeah, that's been a thing since he joined. If you listen carefully, there is some of that on the TLT albums as well. It's used sparingly as an effect rather than being too forward, and in that context, I think it fits and adds some aggression without being too distracting. I like it as well.
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Here's In Extremis and Behind the Walls from the start of the tour with JP last night.
In Extremis - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94VQqTSvGyY
Behind the Walls - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQZha3_M74g
:metal :metal
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They sound great! Killer performance.
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
It sounds like he’s using an effect to me. He is doing a bit better than he was four or five years ago. I’ll give him that much.
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
Wrong thread.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36090.msg1525231#msg1525231
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
The vocals are legit, he's just using an effect at the end to help it echo out. But he's hitting the notes. (Or at least going for them.) Not bad for 63, eh? I saw that Halford was doing the same thing.
One thing I noticed with Tate is that he holds the mic away from him as he goes for the note, and I'm guessing as he knows he's got it, he moves in closer. Again, assuming I'm correct, I guess that's in case he doesn't get it, he can just let it go without it being as noticeable? I'm not too up on live performance techniques. Maybe one of our musicians here can explain. To me, it was just Tate being careful to not hit something bad. But I'm really happy he's going for stuff. It doesn't always work, but the effort is there, and for me, that's what matters. Next time he tours the U.S., I'm there.
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
The vocals are legit, he's just using an effect at the end to help it echo out. But he's hitting the notes. (Or at least going for them.) Not bad for 63, eh? I saw that Halford was doing the same thing.
I thought the same thing. QOTR started and I was really impressed.
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
The vocals are legit, he's just using an effect at the end to help it echo out. But he's hitting the notes. (Or at least going for them.) Not bad for 63, eh? I saw that Halford was doing the same thing.
One thing I noticed with Tate is that he holds the mic away from him as he goes for the note, and I'm guessing as he knows he's got it, he moves in closer. Again, assuming I'm correct, I guess that's in case he doesn't get it, he can just let it go without it being as noticeable? I'm not too up on live performance techniques. Maybe one of our musicians here can explain. To me, it was just Tate being careful to not hit something bad. But I'm really happy he's going for stuff. It doesn't always work, but the effort is there, and for me, that's what matters. Next time he tours the U.S., I'm there.
Typically, they will pull the mic away for something they are going to belt out, especially on the front of a note. They may also do this on plosives, ie your B's, T's, D's, G's, P's, etc. because those generate a lot more sound pressure hitting the diaphragm of the mic.
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
Impressive for sure... He looks like hes having a great time and the crowd looks like they enjoyed it
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
:omg: Niiice!!! :metal
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
Yes and yes. If they weren't legit then why would you put sustain on a note that's flatter than a steam-rollered pancake?
That said, that's a pretty impressive performance given how bad Tate's vocals had gotten not that long ago, though it's weird seeing him rock out to one of the chuggier QR songs given his long stated attitude to that kind of metal.
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
That's live mate, just with a lot of echo and sustain. Great performance
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Are these vocals legit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUWWorx1KM
...or is there just an extended vocal sustain at the end of some of the lines?
Wrong thread.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36090.msg1525231#msg1525231
Depends who you ask.
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Some sad news from emtee. While listening to this on the way back from the beach on Sunday, I received a call from my sister that my father had died. From here forward it will be impossible to hear it and not remember.
Uugghh...
He lived a good life and we loved each other unconditionally. I will miss him. RIP Dad.
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Some sad news from emtee. While listening to this on the way back from the beach on Sunday, I received a call from my sister that my father had died. From here forward it will be impossible to hear it and not remember.
Uugghh...
He lived a good life and we loved each other unconditionally. I will miss him. RIP Dad.
I am sincerely sorry for your loss. I lost my dad in 2007 and I still feel it.
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So sorry for your loss, emtee.
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Sorry for your loss emtee.
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Oh shit , man. I’m so sorry to hear.
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Some sad news from emtee. While listening to this on the way back from the beach on Sunday, I received a call from my sister that my father had died. From here forward it will be impossible to hear it and not remember.
Uugghh...
He lived a good life and we loved each other unconditionally. I will miss him. RIP Dad.
I am so sorry for your loss. my deepest condolences,,, wishing you and your family peace love and strength during this time of grieving... EV
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Some sad news from emtee. While listening to this on the way back from the beach on Sunday, I received a call from my sister that my father had died. From here forward it will be impossible to hear it and not remember.
Uugghh...
He lived a good life and we loved each other unconditionally. I will miss him. RIP Dad.
I'm Flat out Heartbroken to hear this. I'm so sorry. I'm sending you strength and love to cope with this monumental loss. :heart
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emtee - I am so sorry to hear that. My condolences.
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emtee - really feel for you and sorry to hear that. My condolences.
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So sorry for your loss, emtee. My thoughts are with you.
I have the same negative association with Scorpions Humanity Hour 1 and the loss of my mum in 2007.
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Some sad news from emtee. While listening to this on the way back from the beach on Sunday, I received a call from my sister that my father had died. From here forward it will be impossible to hear it and not remember.
Uugghh...
He lived a good life and we loved each other unconditionally. I will miss him. RIP Dad.
Sorry for your loss, my friend...
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Some sad news from emtee. While listening to this on the way back from the beach on Sunday, I received a call from my sister that my father had died. From here forward it will be impossible to hear it and not remember.
Uugghh...
He lived a good life and we loved each other unconditionally. I will miss him. RIP Dad.
Very sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with you and your family. :( :(
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Best wishes Emtee. A similar thing happened when my father passed 3 years ago. I can’t listen to Rush’s Afterimage now.
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Condolences emtee.
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Sorry to hear that emtee. My thoughts go out to you, your sister and the rest of your family.
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Very sorry to hear this emtee, condolences to your family.
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Sorry to hear that, emtee, very sad news. I wish your family has the strength to deal with this difficult time. :heart
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So sorry, emtee. I know no words can take away your pain, but I hope you find it an encouragement that so many people genuinely care about you and your situation.
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Some sad news from emtee. While listening to this on the way back from the beach on Sunday, I received a call from my sister that my father had died. From here forward it will be impossible to hear it and not remember.
Uugghh...
He lived a good life and we loved each other unconditionally. I will miss him. RIP Dad.
So sorry about that. Hope you can find a way to heal. I know what it's like to lose a loved one. :(
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Sorry for your loss. Take comfort in the memories.
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I'm so sorry for your loss emtee.
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He lived a good life and we loved each other unconditionally. I will miss him. RIP Dad.
If he could read those simple words, I bet he would be most proud to have you as his son.
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28 years ago, right at this time, I got home from my two classes at college. I saw on the way home that The Wiz (a local music and electronics store) near my house that Promised Land was released. Being a poor college student and not paid until Friday (this was a Tuesday), I asked my mom if I could borrow $20 bucks to buy the new QR CD. She said yes, I drove over the five minutes to the store, and bought Promised Land. I didn't have a CD player in the car, so I rushed home, put it on, and prompted didn't get it after "Damaged."
A few days later though, on headphones, laying in the dark except for a light on the liner notes, I followed along, and it hit me...like a two ton heavy thing. I was blown away.
Happy 28th anniversary, Promised Land. An overlooked gem by many and the most personal and human record Queensryche has ever released. :heart
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Don't want to turn this into anything other than a QR thread but I want to thank everyone for the kind and thoughtful words. It's been a difficult few days but time heals.
Despite this album forever connected to this sad event, my love for it has not diminished. It connects with me in a special way. I truly love it and I would put it in the upper tier with my favorite QR albums.
You guys rock!
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I definitely like this record better than the previous.
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Saw them open for Judas Priest last night. Due to local curfew, their set was cut from 11 to 8 songs and they played for 40 minutes exactly. The band looked bored, but sounded great, though Todd was the only one that had any sort of energy. I saw Maiden 3 weeks ago and that entire band had more energy and movement in one song compared to QR's full eight songs.
I realized that this was the first time I was seeing Casey Grillo play drums, yet he didn't have much showmanship as he used to with Kamelot. I don't know if he brought any of that stick-twirling into QR, but he just seems so under-utilized in the band, especially after hearing Kamelot's song "Karma" played over the PA before the show.
Todd sounded pretty good, but was slightly lower in the mix than I'd have liked. They tend to use a lot of sustain on his high notes, so he can hit them, then let the PA system carry the sound of it. It feels slightly like cheating when you are accustomed to watching Geoff hold a massive note at the end of The Needle Lies, but Todd doesn't. I was happy to see him sing Screaming in Digital - that song sounded really good. They also played Behind the Walls from the new album, so I got to hear one song at least. They dropped In Extremis, Take Hold, and NM156 due to the time restriction.
There were a number of people around me who said they were unfamiliar with Queensryche, so they were all impressed with how he sings the old songs so well and he can hit the Geoff Tate notes. Funnily enough, the song that got the biggest reaction was Empire. Some things will never change.
Of the 11 times I've seen them, that was the only non-headline show, so I got a quick dose of QR, though it doesn't compare to the only other time I'd seen the Todd-fronted band in 2013.
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Funny thing is, the three songs they dropped I'd want to hear the most...well, two of them (NM and IE, I could leave Take Hold these days).
Bummer there wasn't a lot of energy. Sucks that they had to cut the set short too. You would have thought they would have started earlier if that was the case. Well, I'm glad you got to go see the show, Grapp.
I do like the whole "album-window" concept of their stage design. I think their backdrop is too simple and plain, but likely by design since the stage set up is more colorful.
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I definitely like this record better than the previous.
I'm liking it so far, too. I like some songs more than others, but I can't say I find any of them "bad" per se.
I had my brother listen to it, and this is the album that has finally made him not care Tate isn't in the band anymore.
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Funny thing is, the three songs they dropped I'd want to hear the most...well, two of them (NM and IE, I could leave Take Hold these days).
Bummer there wasn't a lot of energy. Sucks that they had to cut the set short too. You would have thought they would have started earlier if that was the case. Well, I'm glad you got to go see the show, Grapp.
I do like the whole "album-window" concept of their stage design. I think their backdrop is too simple and plain, but likely by design since the stage set up is more colorful.
I was hoping for NM156 and In Extremis as well. I was surprised that they would drop Take Hold since it was a Priest crowd. At least I got to see Todd sing Screaming in Digital.
The stage design is awesome. I love the album art/video art/logos re-imagined as windows. It was more fun trying to figure out what each one was instead of watching the show. It is what it is at this point. Musically, they're still super tight and sound amazing, but they don't look like they're enjoying playing live. It's just very noticeable when you watch a 71 year old Halford give it his all, or the 60 year old guys in Maiden smiling, twirling and flying about the stage.
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Re: using sound effects on the voice
I wouldn't mind it if it sounds good and if it's helping Todd to deliver the songs. Tate does similar things as shown in the link provided some posts above. And there it was deemed 'legit'. ;)
Re: Stage presence
Too bad when they don't act professional and at least try to look like they're having fun. As far as action on stage goes, I don't know how it was in the early days, but I saw them first on the Promised Land tour. And even back then Tate was the only one moving around the stage a bit. The others were pretty static.
And all this confirms to me, that Todd is the only one left who really cares. The others are glad to get a paycheck and are otherwise going through the motions. Ironically Todd is probably the one who gets paid the least, because he's the 'new guy'.
Re: New record
Not sure what to make of it yet. I listened a couple times and it's not bad, but I'm not sure if it's really good. As of now there's no standout track. I listen to the record, I enjoy it and afterwards I can't recall a single thing about it.
Right now The Verdict remains my favorite Todd-ryche album.
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Re: using sound effects on the voice
I wouldn't mind it if it sounds good and if it's helping Todd to deliver the songs. Tate does similar things as shown in the link provided some posts above. And there it was deemed 'legit'. ;)
It is legit - Todd is definitely hitting those notes and it's the same as Tate using it. Here's a video of the first 2 or so songs from last night. After the big intro note of Queen of the Reich, it goes into a sustain, where the note echoes a bit. He doesn't have to hold it as long, so he can duck out of the note. I understand it, and so many other singers including Tate and Halford use it as well. It's just a feeling I had while watching the show, where all of the variables come together. Lack of stage movement from the other guys, Casey's hair being in his face for the whole show so I can't see him, noticing that his playing, while awesome, isn't as fun as it was in Kamelot. Todd being a bit low in the mix from where I was standing. I know it's unfair to Todd to think that "he's cheating" a bit, but at the same time, my last point of reference to the band was 2013, when I last saw them and he didn't really need sustain on those notes. The band is different now compared to then, and they're different compared to those 2 hour shows I would see with Tate fronting the band. Maybe they didn't play old songs then, but Tate still had the lung power to hold the big note at the end of The Needle Lies for 20-30 seconds and still wow everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyO-DnnMpcU
Re: Stage presence
Too bad when they don't act professional and at least try to look like they're having fun. As far as action on stage goes, I don't know how it was in the early days, but I saw them first on the Promised Land tour. And even back then Tate was the only one moving around the stage a bit. The others were pretty static.
And all this confirms to me, that Todd is the only one left who really cares. The others are glad to get a paycheck and are otherwise going through the motions. Ironically Todd is probably the one who gets paid the least, because he's the 'new guy'.
I agree with all of this - Todd was very personable and appreciative of the audience and being the opening band for Priest. He still sounded really good, and all of the fans around me talked about how great he is and how he could hit the notes. But when you're opening for a legendary metal band, you need to put on a good show.
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Regarding that QotR note:
The days of this are long gone from La Torre - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS20WkSglZ0.
And that's not to say that he doesn't still do the song well. He does. But having a bit of technological help to help sustain the note wasn't always needed, as the above shows. That video was a decade ago, sure. And we can debate the reasons for needing a little "help" now (we all know the various things that can contribute to that whole "why" question - no need to rehash). But the bottom line is, if the artificial sustain La Torre is using to extend notes helps the band and La Torre deliver a better overall show, it makes sense. Tate does it too - check out the :37 second mark here where he finishes the note and it goes on for another two seconds as an echo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59KMNPOO2y4. He did the song again two weeks ago and the same thing. Not a huge deal to me.
What matters to me is EFFORT and the willingness to go for it. And long as the ability is there to do it on a fairly regular basis, then I'm all for hearing singers go for notes, even it doesn't always work.
Do I PREFER them not using that tech to sustain - absolutely. But it doesn't bother me. Not everyone can be Glenn Hughes. :lol
When I saw Fates Warning back in 2018 on the Theories of Flight tour, the band played "Acquiescence" which is a part of "The Ivory Gate of Dreams." Ray went for a high note at the end, and when he finished, he laughed, and said "that doesn't always work." The point is, Ray went for it. He felt like he could get it, so he did it. And it wasn't perfect, but he almost got it. He wasn't using any sort of tech to sustain those kind of notes - Fates doesn't do that, and I'm glad they don't. But it wouldn't have bother me even if they had. Again, it's about the desire and willingness to do it and feel it. Feel that you want to go for something and go do it.
Both Tate and La Torre want to hit those notes and you can tell they are focusing on them and WANT to do them now. A bit of sustain at the end for dramatic effect isn't really a big deal, at least not to me.
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And they still have to hit it. If the note is flat, the sustain doesn't help.
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p.s. on a side note, seeing that Rising West video again (i was at both shows that weekend - that video, I am literally right behind Savoia who is recording it, just more center), it reminds me of just how powerful those EP/The Warning songs are in a club setting. Man...THAT was the way those songs were supposed to be performed. In a tiny room, sweaty bodies, and a singer nailing stratospheric notes.
I envy those of you who got to see Dream Theater in 92 in the clubs, Fates Warning on those early tours with Ray, and of course, those of you who are old enough to have seen the original Queensryche in the clubs doing those early songs.
While Queensryche became this majestic, progressive hard rock arena act with Empire, I would have given ANYTHING to have seen them headline a club on The Warning tour. Shit like "NM 156" and "Blinded" in a fucking club, 100 degrees, and just slaying. THAT was bad ass. Those Rising West/QR shows gave me that feeling, and I'm forever thankful to Queensryche for inviting me to witness them. Those songs were meant to be played in that environment. Crazy energy. :metal
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And they still have to hit it. If the note is flat, the sustain doesn't help.
Of course. Like I said, most of the time, they get there, or get close. If it's flat, that sucks, but that's live music. Shit happens.
I just saw Extreme this summer, and Gary Cherone, who is always awesome, was flat a bit. Again, shit happens.
The effort, man. That goes a long way. As long as the notes are close, personally, I can live with it.
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After some time I'd say the Verdict is still the more consistent of the two, but the new album has more highs. Some great stuff unfortunately let down slightly by a couple songs I just can not get into at all, which is somewhat unusual for a QR album regardless the era.
Anyway, this isn't that same Queensryche of years back those first half dozen releases will never be topped, but I'm just glad they're still around in any form and creating some quality music. I simply take these guys for what they are and judge them on their own strengths and this album continues that trend of creating quality music, and IMO features some of the best material yet with Todd at the helm.
In Extremis opens well enough but for me the real bangs for buck are with Lost In Sorrow with its killer 80's riffing stellar chorus all kinds of tremendous, Chapters thows back to those lovely Empire moments, Realms likewise with more beef, and after a while thinking Brian was off his head with his review of this like WTF, Tormentum finally won me over and is what I'd describe as essential modern-day Queensryhe (more of this please Todd and folks)!
A few others I like to dig into as well but for what it's worth ;)
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And they still have to hit it. If the note is flat, the sustain doesn't help.
Of course. Like I said, most of the time, they get there, or get close. If it's flat, that sucks, but that's live music. Shit happens.
I just saw Extreme this summer, and Gary Cherone, who is always awesome, was flat a bit. Again, shit happens.
The effort, man. That goes a long way. As long as the notes are close, personally, I can live with it.
Hey, not everyone can be as great as Vince Neil. They can try, but their efforts will prove to be futile.
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And they still have to hit it. If the note is flat, the sustain doesn't help.
Of course. Like I said, most of the time, they get there, or get close. If it's flat, that sucks, but that's live music. Shit happens.
I just saw Extreme this summer, and Gary Cherone, who is always awesome, was flat a bit. Again, shit happens.
The effort, man. That goes a long way. As long as the notes are close, personally, I can live with it.
Hey, not everyone can be as great as Vince Neil. They can try, but their efforts will prove to be futile.
(https://cdn.theblemish.com/images/2013/05/900x900px-LL-9bb28d6b_mother-of-god-super-troopers.jpeg)
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So Geoff Tate has announced what I am sure everyone expected - a 35th anniversary tour of Operation: Mindcrime.
Ugh.
I mean, obviously Mindcrime is a cash cow, so I get WHY he's doing it. But I really wish he'd put that album to bed. I never got the chance to see the Empire/Rage tour unfortunately (had tickets but couldn't make it). But I saw he was doing stuff in Europe for both EP/Warning/Rage and then Promised Land. I wish he'd bring that to the states. I have no desire to see Operation: Mindcrime performed again. And while promoters want it, I just wish Tate made enough doing other stuff to stop trotting this record out. His band is okay, but they don't replicate that record overly well (I saw Tate's solo band do it in 2018 on the 30th).
A friend (who was another old school QR fan) and I talked about seeing a couple Tate shows in 2023/2024 (we live on opposite coasts but are from the same hometown). But I won't go see Operation: Mindcrime again.
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I just want to see O:M made into a movie. Is that too much to ask?
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I just want to see O:M made into a movie. Is that too much to ask?
Be careful what you wish for. My feeling on that is if it is ever done (and the legalities of who owns the rights to Mindcrime are a question), it will be done cheaply, and I don't want to see that.
Besides, I think the presentation of Operation: LIVEcrime as a concert was all that's needed. That release is still legendary and definitive IMO.
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I just want to see O:M made into a movie. Is that too much to ask?
Be careful what you wish for. My feeling on that is if it is ever done (and the legalities of who owns the rights to Mindcrime are a question), it will be done cheaply, and I don't want to see that.
Besides, I think the presentation of Operation: LIVEcrime as a concert was all that's needed. That release is still legendary and definitive IMO.
I agree with all of that.
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I just want to see O:M made into a movie. Is that too much to ask?
Be careful what you wish for. My feeling on that is if it is ever done (and the legalities of who owns the rights to Mindcrime are a question), it will be done cheaply, and I don't want to see that.
Besides, I think the presentation of Operation: LIVEcrime as a concert was all that's needed. That release is still legendary and definitive IMO.
I agree with all of that.
Of course you do. :biggrin:
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I just want to see O:M made into a movie.
No you don't.
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Queensryche was announced to play on Cruise to the Edge.
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I just want to see O:M made into a movie.
No you don't.
Agreed. If you saw the O:MII tour and how cheesy and cheap that was, can you imagine how poorly a movie would be done? :omg:
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Wilton did a new interview with Classic Rock - https://www.loudersound.com/features/queensryche-were-always-being-sued-about-something-thats-part-of-the-business
Now, because of how he answers things, some may think Michael isn't as much of a thinker as say DeGarmo and Tate are. But don't be fooled, Wilton is really sharp. He just is a bit more careful in what he says. I found these parts of the Q&A to be interesting:
CR: Would you be surprised to hear that in an interview for his most recent European tour Geoff Tate told Classic Rock: “I’ve been open to talking about a reunion with the guys for a couple of years, but honestly, it doesn’t seem likely. I do wish them luck because they’re going through a tumultuous time, as probably all of us are, getting things started again. I wish them well in that.”
MW: That’s respectable and the feeling is mutual, but we’re on a roll with this version of Queensr˙che. It would be silly to stop our momentum. I wish the best for him, and that’s all I can really say.
I had to re-read that twice. So Tate has reached out about reuniting, and it hasn't gone anywhere as the band feels it is in a good place and doesn't need another change that would interrupt what they are currently doing. This doesn't surprise me at all, frankly. But it was really nice to read in print that they are on...at least decent terms. I wish it would proceed further to the point where maybe Tate isn't with the band, but doing some legacy projects (re-releasing The Warning being tops on my list, perhaps a live album celebrating Promised Land using footage and audio from 1994-1995) could be done together, with Tate spearheading it a little bit.
I mean, I totally understand Wilton's point - the band is creating records that they enjoy that harken back a bit to the band's metal years. And as he and Eddie, like Tate, are in their 60s, there are more years behind than ahead, so why make an "unnecessary" shift now? I get it. Then again, on the flip side, it COULD (I don't know the numbers) make good sense, if they are all headed toward wrapping up their touring careers (I assume they won't tour into their 70s), to get it all back together while people are still playing/singing decently. I don't expect DeGarmo, but Stone is back in, and I mean, I am sure that Rockenfield and his lawsuit would easily be dismissed if there was some sort of windfall from a reunion of sorts.
I don't know.
Musically, I think the best post-Tate record is The Verdict, although DNA is good. But then that leads me to question this statement by Wilton:
CR - Digital Noise Alliance is Queensr˙che’s fourth album with singer Todd La Torre. A decade after the exit of Geoff Tate, how well do you think the slump of those last few Tate-fronted records has been reversed?
MW - The whole rebuilding process is progressing well. For the most part it’s about giving the fans what they want: the [signature] Queensr˙che sound. That’s something we’ve done over countless tours and several albums. It’s a work in progress, but right now everything feels very strong.
I totally understand what Wilton is saying here. But that said, I think the interviewer doesn't understand what Queensryche was in its original form. Queensryche's "signature" wasn't a "sound" per se, like when you hear Tony Iommi. I mean, Wilton's guitar is the one remaining sonic thread of that "sound" that is immediately recognizable (with apologies to Ed). his guitar tone and style are very distinct. But that isn't what made QR, as a band, distinct. One of those distinctions was doing exactly what the current version of QR ISN'T doing - making sure each record is its own, independent, different-sounding journey. Post-Tate QR is, as good as the songs are, very similar from record to record. Whereas, even those last few albums with Tate, as much as Dedicated to Chaos was NOT good to my ears, all three of those Tateryche records sounded, stylistically, all different from one another. Which was one of the original band's hallmarks. Did Tate go too far? Absolutely. Not involving the band (particularly Wilton) enough led to straying too far away from one of QR's strengths, and using outside writers to make what Tate's vision was, was a mistake (with all apologies to my good friend, the late Jason Slater, who would totally agree with what I said). Queensryche is Queensryche, not a band like Whitesnake that is led by one vision (Coverdale's). But, those albums DID continue to do what Queensryche always was - a band that changed its sound from record to record.
Queensryche was very much a sum of its parts. Moreso than most of their contemporaries. That's why as they lost DeGarmo, Tate, and Rockenfield, they've sounded less and less like "Queensryche." Yes, the band sounds more metal, but THAT isn't the signature Queensryche thing. That's ONE part of it. Just because these recent QR records are more metal, doesn't mean it's the "Queensryche sound." Frankly, I think QR sounds these days more like the spawn from an early Fates Warning record than Queensryche. And I love Fates Warning. But that's not Queensryche.
Anyway, I'm not being negative. If everyone in current QR loves what they are doing, then absolutely all power to them. The new music by Queensryche is very good. And I'm glad people are digging it. But I think it's a bit short-sighted to assume what's being produced now by the band is "Queensryche's signature sound." It's far from it. Wilton's guitar tone and style of lead playing is honestly the only thing that brings echoes of what the band used to be.
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And speaking of the Rockenfield fiasco, here's something else from that same interview:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-legal-dispute-with-scott-rockenfeld-is-still-ongoing-itll-work-itself-out-says-michael-wilton
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@Samsara: For the second 3-paragraph point, I would say: yes and no.
First off, I think the band has always, since day 1, considered a certain type of metal to be what they wanted to have be a big part of the "signature Queensryche sound." It is a thread that has existed through every album, with possibly the exception of Q2K and D2C, which are probably regarded as their most experimental albums. I think if you asked any of the original members, they would likely agree, even if they might have slightly different perspectives about what that meant (which is understandable and isn't exclusive to QR). Yes, experimentation and change ("evolution," if you want to call it that) are also important facets. But those aren't mutually exclusive. I just think that, with Mike and Ed being the only original members left, we are getting primarily Mike's version of that. And Todd I think feeds and amplifies that. I guess one thing I am trying to say here is that I don't feel that the band's constant change, at least in those early years, at all takes away from them having a core metal sound that, in essence, is "the signature Queensryche sound." And I think that sound was always there, even if it sounded different and was expressed differently on the EP and The Warning than on Rage, which was different than Mindcrime, which was different than Empire, which was different than Promised Land, etc.
Second, I think Tate did the same thing during his time in Queensryche when he took over. To me, the two biggest curve balls in Queensryche's sound were Q2K and D2C. By the time D2C rolled around, I think Tate was just going to do whatever Tate wanted to do, come what may, and that manifested in an album that sounded nothing like the Queensryche we all knew and loved, as well as lots of other things, like the Cabaret tour, for example. Whether or not it was consistent with what Queensryche had done in the past, he felt like he was the only one in charge and was going to steer the ship where he wanted. So let's take that album out of the equation for a second and just chalk it up to being a complete "wildcard." Now let's go back and look at the period after DeGarmo exited. I don't think Tate or anyone else necessarily intended Q2K to be such a departure. There are a number of factors contributing to that album sounding the way it did, not least among them the fact that they were writing with a different person for the first time ever and they were feeling lost without DeGarmo in a lot of ways. But I think what is more important and more telling as far as this discussion is concerned is what happened next. The pendulum swung back. First time that ever happened. And it's understandable, for a lot of reasons. For one thing, DeGarmo was back. But even the songs where he didn't have writing credit sound a whole lot more like "classic Queensryche" than Q2K did. Yes, Tribe had an early 2000s vibe and sound, just as a lot of their earlier albums incorporated sounds that were contemporary to their development and releases. But it had a LOT more in common with pre-Q2K albums than it did with Q2K. It wasn't a continuation of the Q2K sound. It was a "return to form." Mindcrime II and American Soldier, despite also containing some unique elements, also sounded like an intentional return to an older Queensryche sound. And I think Tate's chief writing partner, Slater, would have agreed. To paraphrase what I believe he said the mindset was during that period, it was along the lines of his job being to take Tate's ideas, as well as anything Slater could bring to the table on his own, and make them sound like Queensryche. So I think even Tate had a vision of what the "classic Queensryche sound" is, and it isn't drastically different from what the interviewer above and Wilton are suggesting.
In that regard, taking D2C out of the equation as the obvious wildcard aberration that it was, I don't think that the Todd era of the band is really doing anything different than what the post-DeGarmo Tate era was doing after Q2K. It's just that the influences are different, with Tate being the primary expression of that influence during his reign of terror, and Michael and Todd being the primary expression of that influence now. Although change and experimentation were a hallmark of the classic lineup years, I think that ship sailed long before the Todd era.
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I understand what you're saying Samsara, but I wonder if Queensryche isn't just doing the best that they can do. Maybe DeGarmo (at his songwriting peak) and Tate and Wilton were needed to make back to back to back albums that all sounded different but were all excellent. Then one or more of them lost something in the writing department with HITNF (imo) and the downward spiral began. So maybe the only choice now with the members who are left are: a.) good songs that try (and generally succeed I think) in capturing a Queensryche vibe but the albums aren't very different or b.) Really different sounding albums but with less than good songs.
And if that's the case I don't blame them for choosing a.
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It's nice to see that they are on (somewhat) good terms. I recall 3-4 years ago Tate was performing with Avantasia at a festival and was on the side stage while Queensryche performed. Todd even posted a picture with him and was very appreciate of being able to meet him.
Tate also mentioned "good offers" to reunite the original lineup, though I wonder what they would even draw (unless it was overseas). Currently QR and Tate play the same clubs and small theaters. Maybe they could get a bump into larger theaters/venues? I don't know. I do think a one-off in a few years would be neat, especially if they can get Chris to perform.
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@Samsara: For the second 3-paragraph point, I would say: yes and no.
First off, I think the band has always, since day 1, considered a certain type of metal to be what they wanted to have be a big part of the "signature Queensryche sound." It is a thread that has existed through every album, with possibly the exception of Q2K and D2C, which are probably regarded as their most experimental albums. I think if you asked any of the original members, they would likely agree, even if they might have slightly different perspectives about what that meant (which is understandable and isn't exclusive to QR). Yes, experimentation and change ("evolution," if you want to call it that) are also important facets. But those aren't mutually exclusive.
Nothing I said can be construed as those facets being mutually exclusive. I agree with you.
EDIT - BUT, in re-reading what you wrote, I don't think the band "considered a certain type of metal to be what they wanted" as their sound. I think they just write and played and were influenced, early on, by Priest, Maiden, etc. It just so happened that way. I think their core was something we mocked Tate for a lot during the split: "No Limits." That phrase came up a lot during the research for the book. That indeed was something that they discussed. They WEREN'T just a metal band. And as the band evolved, they got away from that early metal style into something more melodic. So no, I wouldn't say since "Day 1" that they knew what kind of metal to be in their sound would be. I think that evolved over time.
I just think that, with Mike and Ed being the only original members left, we are getting primarily Mike's version of that. And Todd I think feeds and amplifies that.
Exactly. That's exactly what I am saying, bosk. But I'm also saying that particular...not sure of the right word..."brand" of metal is definitive of what the QR sound is. It is PART of it.
I guess one thing I am trying to say here is that I don't feel that the band's constant change, at least in those early years, at all takes away from them having a core metal sound that, in essence, is "the signature Queensryche sound." And I think that sound was always there, even if it sounded different and was expressed differently on the EP and The Warning than on Rage, which was different than Mindcrime, which was different than Empire, which was different than Promised Land, etc.
We aren't disagreeing. But that metal "sound" WAS always there. The way Wilton makes it sound, it sounds like it wasn't present, even on American Soldier, MC II, Tribe, etc. It certainly WAS. But my...point, is that having a metal sound isn't distinctive of what comprised the entirety of what Queensryche sounded like.
Second, I think Tate did the same thing during his time in Queensryche when he took over. To me, the two biggest curve balls in Queensryche's sound were Q2K and D2C. By the time D2C rolled around, I think Tate was just going to do whatever Tate wanted to do, come what may, and that manifested in an album that sounded nothing like the Queensryche we all knew and loved, as well as lots of other things, like the Cabaret tour, for example. Whether or not it was consistent with what Queensryche had done in the past, he felt like he was the only one in charge and was going to steer the ship where he wanted. So let's take that album out of the equation for a second and just chalk it up to being a complete "wildcard." Now let's go back and look at the period after DeGarmo exited. I don't think Tate or anyone else necessarily intended Q2K to be such a departure. There are a number of factors contributing to that album sounding the way it did, not least among them the fact that they were writing with a different person for the first time ever and they were feeling lost without DeGarmo in a lot of ways.
Well, around that time, they were just all in a room and letting Kelly Gray sort of flesh out ideas and contribute. It was a departure in so much that they let someone other than Chris DeGarmo have a large hand in arrangements. And with a new member, it was naturally a departure. Again, not disagreeing that "intent to depart" was a conscious thing. It just was, sure.
But I think what is more important and more telling as far as this discussion is concerned is what happened next. The pendulum swung back. First time that ever happened. And it's understandable, for a lot of reasons. For one thing, DeGarmo was back. But even the songs where he didn't have writing credit sound a whole lot more like "classic Queensryche" than Q2K did. Yes, Tribe had an early 2000s vibe and sound, just as a lot of their earlier albums incorporated sounds that were contemporary to their development and releases. But it had a LOT more in common with pre-Q2K albums than it did with Q2K. It wasn't a continuation of the Q2K sound. It was a "return to form."
I wouldn't at all say the pendulum swung back. I think the style of Tribe was a continued evolution from where Hear in the Now Frontier left off. The mix and production is larger and more reminiscent of older QR records. But the songs take what they learned from HITNF and they went another direction. I see both HITNF and Tribe being very distinct, song-wise. "Sound a whole lot more like 'classic Queensryche'" is not really an objective statement. To me, the stuff with DeGarmo followed a very natural evolution. I see your point, but I think the whole "return to form" thing is something fueled by the fact DeGarmo was there. Of course it's going to sound more familiar. But you could be right, too. I just don't see it as black and white as you painted it.
Mindcrime II and American Soldier, despite also containing some unique elements, also sounded like an intentional return to an older Queensryche sound. And I think Tate's chief writing partner, Slater, would have agreed. To paraphrase what I believe he said the mindset was during that period, it was along the lines of his job being to take Tate's ideas, as well as anything Slater could bring to the table on his own, and make them sound like Queensryche. So I think even Tate had a vision of what the "classic Queensryche sound" is, and it isn't drastically different from what the interviewer above and Wilton are suggesting.
Well, Slater isn't here to speak for himself. But I was one of the man's best friends and I can definitively say that your memory is CORRECT, but it wasn't as cut and dry as that. Slater wrote all of Mindcrime II's MUSIC (other than Hostage, which was a leftover from Tribe), giving Stone co-credit since Stone was with him (Stone brought in one song, One Foot in Hell, which Slater re-wrote, as it was a blues thing initially). Slater tried to write things that a Queensryche audience would like, and he did say that. He listened to what folks on The Breakdown Room were saying, and tried to write songs that would 1) connect with Tate, 2) serve the story, and 3) bring back ELEMENTS of older Queensryche. But once it was done, at the end of the day, it sounded very little like the band, since Wilton and Rockenfield weren't on it (much). American Soldier SOUNDED more like the band, because the band actually PLAYED.
In that regard, taking D2C out of the equation as the obvious wildcard aberration that it was, I don't think that the Todd era of the band is really doing anything different than what the post-DeGarmo Tate era was doing after Q2K. It's just that the influences are different, with Tate being the primary expression of that influence during his reign of terror, and Michael and Todd being the primary expression of that influence now. Although change and experimentation were a hallmark of the classic lineup years, I think that ship sailed long before the Todd era.
i don't disagree with any of that. I'll grant you that the post-DeGarmo years (MC II-D2C) were more contrived (perhaps "contrived change?"). But you summed up my point: change and experimentation were a hallmark of the classic lineup years. What the current version of Queensryche is doing is not that, nor is the sound "classic Queensryche" because the lack of evolution and the difference in players/writers.
It's not bad at all, and I like current Queensryche. I just don't think it sounds like the "classic Queensryche sound" because Wilton, from a writing and playing perspective, is the only remaining main songwriter from those classic years. And while Rockenfield wasn't a big writer, his drumming style and nuance was way more influential on that whole sound as well. (Again, apologies to Ed, his bass playing is always killer, but not sure I'd call it a distinctive part of their overall signature sound.)
And I'll also point out that their producer, Zeuss, made it a point to show how they were using all of Wilton's old gear (with the settings marked so they knew how to get the right tones) to make things "sound like" what QR did in the years of the original band. But is a "signature sound" the equipment or the players? It's an age-old argument for sure.
I understand what you're saying Samsara, but I wonder if Queensryche isn't just doing the best that they can do. Maybe DeGarmo (at his songwriting peak) and Tate and Wilton were needed to make back to back to back albums that all sounded different but were all excellent. Then one or more of them lost something in the writing department with HITNF (imo) and the downward spiral began. So maybe the only choice now with the members who are left are: a.) good songs that try (and generally succeed I think) in capturing a Queensryche vibe but the albums aren't very different or b.) Really different sounding albums but with less than good songs.
And if that's the case I don't blame them for choosing a.
Absolutely. And I direct you to what I said in my initial post - I'M NOT BEING NEGATIVE. I think they are doing what they do, and are having a good time doing it, and it sounds good. I guess my question is - is Wilton's style of writing and playing the epitome of "Queensryche's classic sound?" I don't think it is. I think it is one part of it. And the only remaining distinctive part of what that sound truly was.
The four albums with TLT singing, and the last two with different drummers are really good records. But they don't SOUND like the classic Queensryche years to me, except for Wilton. Nor should they. They are all different people. That's why I always shake my head a bit when statements from the band like "classic Queensryche sound" come up. They can't produce that. That sound was very much a product of the writers and players in that original band. I think it's silly to keep saying it, unless they are saying it for marketing purposes. Which, is probably why they are saying that.
Trust me, I'm all for this version of Queensryche. I'd rather them go out and play an hour of the TLT-era material and then a 20-minute encore of classic QR. They are their own unique and distinct era of the band. And I want them to celebrate what they are NOW. Because to me, they are very unlike what the first version of the band was.
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Ultimately, I don't think we're that far apart. We basically agree on the facts. We just have somewhat different perspectives on what those facts mean.
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I understand what you're saying Samsara, but I wonder if Queensryche isn't just doing the best that they can do. Maybe DeGarmo (at his songwriting peak) and Tate and Wilton were needed to make back to back to back albums that all sounded different but were all excellent. Then one or more of them lost something in the writing department with HITNF (imo) and the downward spiral began. So maybe the only choice now with the members who are left are: a.) good songs that try (and generally succeed I think) in capturing a Queensryche vibe but the albums aren't very different or b.) Really different sounding albums but with less than good songs.
And if that's the case I don't blame them for choosing a.
Absolutely. And I direct you to what I said in my initial post - I'M NOT BEING NEGATIVE. I think they are doing what they do, and are having a good time doing it, and it sounds good. I guess my question is - is Wilton's style of writing and playing the epitome of "Queensryche's classic sound?" I don't think it is. I think it is one part of it. And the only remaining distinctive part of what that sound truly was.
The four albums with TLT singing, and the last two with different drummers are really good records. But they don't SOUND like the classic Queensryche years to me, except for Wilton. Nor should they. They are all different people. That's why I always shake my head a bit when statements from the band like "classic Queensryche sound" come up. They can't produce that. That sound was very much a product of the writers and players in that original band. I think it's silly to keep saying it, unless they are saying it for marketing purposes. Which, is probably why they are saying that.
Trust me, I'm all for this version of Queensryche. I'd rather them go out and play an hour of the TLT-era material and then a 20-minute encore of classic QR. They are their own unique and distinct era of the band. And I want them to celebrate what they are NOW. Because to me, they are very unlike what the first version of the band was.
I don't think you're being negative. But I do think they're trying, and sometimes manage to capture, a sound that feels like "classic" Queensryche. Maybe they don't meet all of the criteria for that, but at the same time I don't think it's wholly inaccurate for them to reference "classic" Queensryche because they're working towards it.
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I don't know if I need a Queensryche reunion. I have come around to the Verdict and I really like the new album. I'd love to see them go into an even heavier direction, almost like Todd's solo album.
What I do think would be cool is if the band could do something like Fates Warning did. Celebrate albums (or their anniversaries) with one-off or certain festival performances with Geoff. Play the album in full or do a special set and release it as a live record. Stress that it's not a reunion, but a celebration and that albums and tours with Todd are still the band's focus.
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I don't know if I need a Queensryche reunion. I have come around to the Verdict and I really like the new album. I'd love to see them go into an even heavier direction, almost like Todd's solo album.
What I do think would be cool is if the band could do something like Fates Warning did. Celebrate albums (or their anniversaries) with one-off or certain festival performances with Geoff. Play the album in full or do a special set and release it as a live record. Stress that it's not a reunion, but a celebration and that albums and tours with Todd are still the band's focus.
I'm with you on this, but I don't see it happening for two reasons:
1. I don't think the band will ever have a relationship with Scott again. He's definitely a different dude, but I feel like whatever transpired ($$) and the subsequent lawsuit will probably rule that out.
2. They won't do it because of their relationship with Todd (which is totally fair and respectable). Especially with his position in the band now.
It's a bummer because a one-off or celebration with the original 5 would be really neat. Even though many of them are into their 60's they could probably perform at a really high level based on everything we've seen. I know Chris is is mostly doing acoustic-driven stuff but I'm sure his old electric guitars still work. :)
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Death & Grapp,
Yeah, I don't see it happening either, because of all the reasons Death stated, plus...I just think Chris has moved on. He's not at Vito Bratta level of moving on, I don't think, but the situation would, in my opinion, have to be one where "Queensryche" needs to be the original five, and done for the right reasons - new music. And I just don't think the other four remaining members of the original band want that. I think they're financially driven. I don't think Chris is.
But that's why I suggested it'd be cool if QR and Tate are on at least decent terms, to partner and do some of those projects. Even though they are on the outs now, a number of years back Steve Perry ended up spearheading a lot of legacy material projects for Journey, while not in the band. He produced the Escape: Live in Houston release and a couple of other things on behalf of the band. It'd be nice if the same could happen with QR's legacy material. Not the retread album re-releases in new packaging, but things fans have been asking for, for a long time - compiling all that Promised Land tour footage and doing something with it, remixing and resequencing The Warning, perhaps doing something like taking Rage for Order and giving it the high fidelity treatment with Neil Kernon, etc.
Those things take someone in the band to champion them, and I just don't think Eddie and Michael really will. They never really have.
As this band nears its exit in the next decade, I'd just like to see the legacy stuff that is still outstanding be done right. Hell, me and a couple of friends may even look into licensing Hear in the Now Frontier and putting it on vinyl through their label. Stuff like that. Now's the time.
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Brian, are Tate and QR on "good terms" because I didn't necessarily get that from Wilton's comments.
And Wilton's "the time isn't right" comment or whatever he said simply said to me that the offer wasn't good enough.
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Brian, are Tate and QR on "good terms" because I didn't necessarily get that from Wilton's comments.
And Wilton's "the time isn't right" comment or whatever he said simply said to me that the offer wasn't good enough.
Tim,
I thought I said "decent" terms. Quotes like this:
MW: That’s respectable and the feeling is mutual, but we’re on a roll with this version of Queensr˙che. It would be silly to stop our momentum. I wish the best for him, and that’s all I can really say.
Have been more forthcoming the last few years. They've obviously been in contact. From multiple comments over the years, that's what it seems like - they are all on speaking terms. And obviously, the offers have been presented, and knowing how they communicate, I'm sure they've exchanged emails. You gotta remember, these guys have known one another and worked hand-in-hand since they were late-teens, early-twenties. Yeah, what happened was terrible and there was fault on both sides. But after so many years, and it seems a bit of healing on both sides, compliments for each other have happened over the years, as comments such as Wilton's illustrate.
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Ok. My memory… :lol
I meant to respond the other day when you first mentioned it.
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I think the band has finally found a sound I like by them again. And this for me, is due to Casey finally being on a recording. His drums add a lot to their sound and I have come to realize that is what was missing from their previous reunion albums.
The trio of Realms, Hold On, and Tormentum remind me of the classic Queensryche a lot and this is what I was hoping to hear from them again.
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There's some excellent drumming on it.
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Agree with the drumming but for me, SO much more. Rhythm guitar is excellent throughout. And for the first time in a very, very long time, I wanted to learn the lyrics so I could sing along. Every song begs me to sing along. Really, truly loving this album. Every song is fantastic.
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Enjoying this one. Got to listen to it at decent volume in the earbuds on a 20-mile bike ride Thanksgiving morning, and was really digging it. It's a great workout album. Probably not my favorite Todd-era album, but it's better than anything in the Tate era that came after HITNF, so I'm VERY satisfied.
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Meanwhile I was doing a little EOY writeup last night and I felt Ed's bass was the consistent factor carrying the songs throughout DNA LOL...
Anyway sidenote I do still find Hold On terribly disjointed and by far the weakest track on offer but aside from that agree the highlights here are some of the best nods to classic Ryche from this lineup yet.
My trio would still be Lost In Sorrow, Chapters and Tormentum, yet Realms would be close \m/
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I think the band has finally found a sound I like by them again. And this for me, is due to Casey finally being on a recording. His drums add a lot to their sound and I have come to realize that is what was missing from their previous reunion albums.
The trio of Realms, Hold On, and Tormentum remind me of the classic Queensryche a lot and this is what I was hoping to hear from them again.
I didn't really expect to notice the difference in drumming, but it's pretty pronounced. I immediately noticed his prominent use of cymbals on first listen. I'm not sure if that's in the composition or the recording/mixing, but it really jumps out at me.
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As someone who had nothing but the utmost admiration and respect for Tate during prime Queensryche era, I am completely over him not being in the band anymore. I have no desire to see him return either. I'd be more excited about DeGarmo returning, actually.
They've got a good thing going now, and Todd is singing at a level Tate is just not capable of anymore, and he's doing it enthusiastically.
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As someone who had nothing but the utmost admiration and respect for Tate during prime Queensryche era, I am completely over him not being in the band anymore. I have no desire to see him return either. I'd be more excited about DeGarmo returning, actually.
They've got a good thing going now, and Todd is singing at a level Tate is just not capable of anymore, and he's doing it enthusiastically.
I guess almost anyone would take DeGarmo's returning over Tate's in a second. While Tate in his prime was one of the best rock/metal singers ever, he didn't seem to bring much to the table in terms of creativity and songwriting (yeah, he wrote most of the lyrics, but the lyrics were never a reason why Quennsryche were successful). And since he can't sing at that level anymore, he would really have nothing to contribute to make the band any better. The opposite - making the band worse - would be much more likely as his "problematic personality" would emerge to sour the atmosphere sooner or later.
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As someone who had nothing but the utmost admiration and respect for Tate during prime Queensryche era, I am completely over him not being in the band anymore. I have no desire to see him return either. I'd be more excited about DeGarmo returning, actually.
They've got a good thing going now, and Todd is singing at a level Tate is just not capable of anymore, and he's doing it enthusiastically.
I guess almost anyone would take DeGarmo's returning over Tate's in a second. While Tate in his prime was one of the best rock/metal singers ever, he didn't seem to bring much to the table in terms of creativity and songwriting (yeah, he wrote most of the lyrics, but the lyrics were never a reason why Quennsryche were successful). And since he can't sing at that level anymore, he would really have nothing to contribute to make the band any better. The opposite - making the band worse - would be much more likely as his "problematic personality" would emerge to sour the atmosphere sooner or later.
Respectfully, I think you are massively downplaying Tate's impact on the writing dynamic—lyrics aside (and I'd argue they play heavily into the band's success), Operation Mindcrime simply doesn't exist without Tate. He may not have 'written' the riffs, but he certainly shaped the entire record, from arranging to the story to the, well, everything. A similar argument can be made for any of those classic albums.
QR was a 'sum of its parts' sort of deal, and the magic existed in the combination between DeGarmo, Tate, and Wilton.
Adding DeGarmo back does not automatically guarantee anything of interest as far as I'm concerned.
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I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating here.
Original QR was about the three M’s working in unison.
Wilton was the Metal
DeGarmo was the Melody
Tate was the Madness
I’m one of the biggest “hate for Tate” guys here, but even I recognize that he brought QRs signature “off-kilter…creepy…I think I’m going mad in a Pink Floyd kinda way” quality to the table that has never quite been recaptured.
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I don't know why DeGarmo coming back would add anything. He left how long ago, and hasn't done jack shit since. The last album he made with them was 25 years ago, and it sucked.
Time to move on, people.
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I don't know why DeGarmo coming back would add anything. He left how long ago, and hasn't done jack shit since. The last album he made with them was 25 years ago, and it sucked.
Time to move on, people.
I was a huge DeGarmo fan when he was in the band, but I couldn't agree more (well, I don't think HITNF completely sucks, but yes, the point is the DeGarmo-version of Queensryche was already going donwnhill by then).
DeGarmo himself has long moved on, clearly :)
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I still can't understand why so much weight gets lumped on Chris for HITNF like it's the be all end all of his career? Like, that was just one album of 6. The amount of bands that release dud records but manage to bounce back is endless. Why would Queensryche have been any different had Chris stayed?
I expect he's done nothing since because with a career elsewhere he chose not to. But to think his return would have minimal affect on the band seems a bit unfair IMO. While I support current Ryche, if hypothetically say Chris was to return to the band for one more studio album, let alone if Geoff returned too, I would imagine excitement would be justifiably high.
Not gonna happen, but regardless that and the why's and what went down, HITNF was just one album so who knows where he/they may have gone had Chris remained!? Chances are they would've gotten back to their A-game eventually.
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I still can't understand why so much weight gets lumped on Chris for HITNF like it's the be all end all of his career?
Well, the one before it blows too, so to me, it's four great albums. Yeah, I know some people love Promised Land, but I'm on the side that doesn't.
It'd be one thing if DeGarmo was killed like Randy Rhoads, but he left of his own accord.
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TAC's opinions about DeGarmo's writing is one of the worst opinions a metal fan ever had in the history of music. Not to mention the fact that it also ignores his contributions on Tribe (as well as Hostage), which were mostly REALLY good.
But where TAC is correct is, yeah, the guy has been gone for a LONG time. It is indeed long past time to move on from the idea of him coming back.
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First off, while only Chris could say for certain, I'm pretty darn sure DeGarmo would want nothing to do with current Queensryche. I'm sure he's happy for Michael and Ed if they're happy, but I don't see him being remotely interested.
Second, the hate for Hear in the Now Frontier needs to stop. I get people (looking at you, Tim) not LIKING Hear in the Now Frontier. I totally do. But if you're a Queensryche fan for the entirety of their run with DeGarmo, that is what they did - change their sound every record incorporating what they are learning as songwriters, what styles are popular and influencing them. Even as much as people credit Rage for Order as this forward thinking album - QR was influenced not just by goth and vampire stuff as an image, but musically as well. As DeGarmo himself said - (paraphrase) nobody's original, everyone's uniquely derivative. DeGarmo, as QR's primary songwriter in the 90s, was listening to what was local, and he was friends with guys like Cornell, Cantrell, etc. If you listen to HITNF, you can hear the influence a record like Down on the Upside from Soundgarden had on the direction of HITNF, plus DeGarmo's own evolution of a songwriter.
I get it if people don't like that style, but as the years have gone on, I really have come to appreciate HITNF a lot. Sure, there is way more filler than usual (a product of the experiment they did of not over rehearsing the material and just going in and doing it more spontaneous). But the record is completely full of all the usual Queensryche hallmarks. It is, like all the albums before it, an evolution of sound by Queensryche. And I really enjoy the variety.
re: Tate-DeGarmo - those two are the soul and heart of the band, with Wilton being the balls. Wilton didn't evolve as much as DeGarmo did as a guitar player. You hear it in his solos and his riffs. But that's what made him being the third key songwriter in the band so important. He kept the metal riff a big part of Queensryche, and I'm so glad he did. He got a bit phased out on PL and HITNF, but on those original lineup songs from Tribe (Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, The Art of Life, Doin' Fine, and Justified), those main riffs in Open and DD are absolutely his to my ears. And the rest of Tribe (the non-DeGarmo stuff) - again, a lot of that is Wilton.
People can talk about the current version of QR and love it, and I am happy the band is happy and fans are diggin' it. But they are a COMPLETELY different entity. It's like listening to a completely different band to my ears.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjTgBGSVEAAu0Xd?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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Second, the hate for Hear in the Now Frontier needs to stop. I get people (looking at you, Tim) not LIKING Hear in the Now Frontier. I totally do. But if you're a Queensryche fan for the entirety of their run with DeGarmo, that is what they did - change their sound every record incorporating what they are learning as songwriters, what styles are popular and influencing them.
My last post (for effect) not withstanding, I actually don't hate HITNF. I actually loved the direction they took with it. I really do. It also has the best band portrait ever taken in the sleeve. I really like a handful of tracks. I don't think it's very good though as the band really felt splintered on it. But I don't hate it.
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Marty Friedman is opening for QR? Shit, I will just go to see Marty! :metal
I kid I kid. I love the current QR lineup. Will definitely make it to the San Antonio show.
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I may have to take that show in as well. I only saw Marty once, in 1997 or 1998 on the Cryptic tour. Ozzfest.
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Same.
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All of this talk of DeGarmo has got me thinking...
I have always understood his walking away from QR. Samsara has written on this topic at length (his site used to be in his signature, but I don't see it now???), and when it's all laid out, his move actually looks quite brilliant.
That said, as a semi-retired musician myself (albeit, no where even close as successful), I often wonder if he still writes, and if so, what he does with all that music.
Hell, even with a 1-year-old running around my house, my mind is constantly humming with new musical ideas. Now, I rarely have any sort of time to sit down and do anything with them, but the inspiration has never stopped (even if my playing sort of has).
And, even with virtually no down-time whatsoever, I've still managed to write and record (haphazardly, mind you) a handful of songs over the past twelve months.
Part of me wonders/assumes that Chris has been doing the same for the past 25 years, and while I've all but given up hope on this front, I sincerely hope he releases some sort of album or collection some day.
Acoustic, singer-songwriter, instrumental, I don't really care...I'd like to just hear a little more music from one of my all-time favorite musicians.
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I saw Marty twice - Ozzfest on the Cryptic tour and a headlining show on the Risk tour. It would be fun to see him play a solo show. May get tickets for the Rave in Milwaukee. From some online chatter, it seems like QR may play more new songs on this headlining run.
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All of this talk of DeGarmo has got me thinking...
I have always understood his walking away from QR. Samsara has written on this topic at length (his site used to be in his signature, but I don't see it now???), and when it's all laid out, his move actually looks quite brilliant.
That said, as a semi-retired musician myself (albeit, no where even close as successful), I often wonder if he still writes, and if so, what he does with all that music.
Hell, even with a 1-year-old running around my house, my mind is constantly humming with new musical ideas. Now, I rarely have any sort of time to sit down and do anything with them, but the inspiration has never stopped (even if my playing sort of has).
And, even with virtually no down-time whatsoever, I've still managed to write and record (haphazardly, mind you) a handful of songs over the past twelve months.
Part of me wonders/assumes that Chris has been doing the same for the past 25 years, and while I've all but given up hope on this front, I sincerely hope he releases some sort of album or collection some day.
Acoustic, singer-songwriter, instrumental, I don't really care...I'd like to just hear a little more music from one of my all-time favorite musicians.
He's been a private pilot since the early 2000s. Last I heard, he was doing cross country trips for a major company (I don't want to say anything else that would compromise his privacy). He also writes all the time. He's said multiple times (in public interviews) that he has a ton of material. He also does some writing with his daughter in a project called The Rue. If you shut his daughter's voice off in your head, and just listening to the music, it's acoustic and sounds very much like (at times) the acoustic stuff he's always written. Here you go - https://www.theruemusic.com/
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All of this talk of DeGarmo has got me thinking...
I have always understood his walking away from QR. Samsara has written on this topic at length (his site used to be in his signature, but I don't see it now???), and when it's all laid out, his move actually looks quite brilliant.
That said, as a semi-retired musician myself (albeit, no where even close as successful), I often wonder if he still writes, and if so, what he does with all that music.
Hell, even with a 1-year-old running around my house, my mind is constantly humming with new musical ideas. Now, I rarely have any sort of time to sit down and do anything with them, but the inspiration has never stopped (even if my playing sort of has).
And, even with virtually no down-time whatsoever, I've still managed to write and record (haphazardly, mind you) a handful of songs over the past twelve months.
Part of me wonders/assumes that Chris has been doing the same for the past 25 years, and while I've all but given up hope on this front, I sincerely hope he releases some sort of album or collection some day.
Acoustic, singer-songwriter, instrumental, I don't really care...I'd like to just hear a little more music from one of my all-time favorite musicians.
He's been a private pilot since the early 2000s. Last I heard, he was doing cross country trips for a major company (I don't want to say anything else that would compromise his privacy). He also writes all the time. He's said multiple times (in public interviews) that he has a ton of material. He also does some writing with his daughter in a project called The Rue. If you shut his daughter's voice off in your head, and just listening to the music, it's acoustic and sounds very much like (at times) the acoustic stuff he's always written. Here you go - https://www.theruemusic.com/
Ahhh, yes. I have that EP and remember when it came out (years ago, I believe)
Very good call!
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First off, while only Chris could say for certain, I'm pretty darn sure DeGarmo would want nothing to do with current Queensryche. I'm sure he's happy for Michael and Ed if they're happy, but I don't see him being remotely interested.
Second, the hate for Hear in the Now Frontier needs to stop. I get people (looking at you, Tim) not LIKING Hear in the Now Frontier. I totally do. But if you're a Queensryche fan for the entirety of their run with DeGarmo, that is what they did - change their sound every record incorporating what they are learning as songwriters, what styles are popular and influencing them. Even as much as people credit Rage for Order as this forward thinking album - QR was influenced not just by goth and vampire stuff as an image, but musically as well. As DeGarmo himself said - (paraphrase) nobody's original, everyone's uniquely derivative. DeGarmo, as QR's primary songwriter in the 90s, was listening to what was local, and he was friends with guys like Cornell, Cantrell, etc. If you listen to HITNF, you can hear the influence a record like Down on the Upside from Soundgarden had on the direction of HITNF, plus DeGarmo's own evolution of a songwriter.
I get it if people don't like that style, but as the years have gone on, I really have come to appreciate HITNF a lot. Sure, there is way more filler than usual (a product of the experiment they did of not over rehearsing the material and just going in and doing it more spontaneous). But the record is completely full of all the usual Queensryche hallmarks. It is, like all the albums before it, an evolution of sound by Queensryche. And I really enjoy the variety.
re: Tate-DeGarmo - those two are the soul and heart of the band, with Wilton being the balls. Wilton didn't evolve as much as DeGarmo did as a guitar player. You hear it in his solos and his riffs. But that's what made him being the third key songwriter in the band so important. He kept the metal riff a big part of Queensryche, and I'm so glad he did. He got a bit phased out on PL and HITNF, but on those original lineup songs from Tribe (Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, The Art of Life, Doin' Fine, and Justified), those main riffs in Open and DD are absolutely his to my ears. And the rest of Tribe (the non-DeGarmo stuff) - again, a lot of that is Wilton.
People can talk about the current version of QR and love it, and I am happy the band is happy and fans are diggin' it. But they are a COMPLETELY different entity. It's like listening to a completely different band to my ears.
THIS ^^
and I loved HITNF and most of PL, I find HITNF 100% Timeless and to me it gets better and better, I loved the dry production
QR was not a sound but a vision on humanity and they said from the start it was about EVOLUTION and they did that, Tate would say if you dont like the current album just wait for the next album as they did not want to make " in the box , me too" music and it harmed them as far as marketing, I too "believe" that CDG is very long gone and has no interest in the current QR. in reality i feel its an impossibility for Chris or Tate to work with the "band" as they would just be paid employees and unless it was Scott too I dont see it happening , IMO and my opinion only to be clear I DO NOT ever see it happening period
I also agree the current QR is not the same band at all ... period IMO
my OPINION as always
I love TAC that is not an opinion : )
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I had given up hope a long time ago on CDG returning to the band. And if they didn't have a good working relationship with Zeuss (who is a top-notch producer) I had actually hoped CDG might be brought back to co-write/produce songs.
Personally I think Michael and Todd are a good songwriting combo but they need help fleshing out ideas further, especially with melodies. There are so many QR songs in the TLT era where I feel that there is a huge musical buildup, then it just falls flat or goes the wrong direction in the chorus. Musically and production-wise the songs sound really good and I enjoy the musicianship in the band.
As for the 2023 tour, I love the bands they have been touring with in the states in recent years (Armored Saint, now Marty Friedman). Will definitely check the show out here in Charlotte.
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I may have to take that show in as well. I only saw Marty once, in 1997 or 1998 on the Cryptic tour. Ozzfest.
In addition to the times I saw him with Megadeth, I was fortunate enough to see him in a place here in NJ about twice the size of my basement back in 2019. His band is absolutely amazing. Not really being familiar with much of his discography past 'Scenes' and 'Introduction', it was still a fantastic show. If QR/MF is anywhere close to me next year, I'll be checking it out for sure.
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I saw Marty with Megadeth in '95 when they were headlining an outdoor festival show near Minneapolis. Loved him in Megadeth. Haven't pursued any of his solo stuff, but would love to see him as an opener.
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I may have to take that show in as well. I only saw Marty once, in 1997 or 1998 on the Cryptic tour. Ozzfest.
In addition to the times I saw him with Megadeth, I was fortunate enough to see him in a place here in NJ about twice the size of my basement back in 2019. His band is absolutely amazing. Not really being familiar with much of his discography past 'Scenes' and 'Introduction', it was still a fantastic show. If QR/MF is anywhere close to me next year, I'll be checking it out for sure.
Whenever his last tour rolled through the Bay Area, I was tempted. My wife and I didn't go, for some reason (probably work-related), but I'd like to see his solo performance.
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To TAC and others: I never said I wanted CDG to return or thought it was a possibility. AFAIK, CDG returning is about as likely as Kevin Moore displacing JR and reuniting with DT. And AFAIC, Queensryche are fine the way they are. All I was trying to say was that, in a purely hypothetical scenario, if an original line-up member were to rejoin the band, I would find CDG preferable to Tate. I neither thi
As for Tate's creative contributions, I am just going by what I have read here, mostly by Samsara. I assumed he was basically a lyricist, but didn't really write music as CDG would give him finished songs with vocal melodies already written (not sure about how it worked with Wilton). Of course, we can argue about the impact of GT's lyrics and its contribution to the bands success but we will get nowhere. I believe - but can't really prove - that the success of conceptual albums is usually not down to the stories they are trying to tell. The story just shouldn't be too bad or stupid (but even that may not be much of a hindrance - see The Astonishing or most classical operas). The same with lyrics - unless they are really bad so as to put off significant number of listeners, or really good so people focus at them as much or more as they focus on music. Queensryche is, IMO, in neither category. I actually spent some time translating Anybody Listening to my native language (a hobby of mine) and it's a mixed bag - some nice poetry along with some cliches.
Jammindude: Wise words but I think mma is a better acronym.
Michael Wilton - Metal
Chris DeGarmo - Music
Geoff Tate - Asshole.
But the asshole happened to be one of the most talented and technically proficient metal singers ever. And this kind of singing ability takes a lot of work so he deserves every credit for that.
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I still have some subsequent posts to read, but re: HITNF, I don't hate it either. But I also don't like it all that much. I really wanted to like it. I gave it lots of tries but ultimately had to admit that it was just kinda meh. And I was/am a fan of grunge. Being influenced by AIC or Soundgarden is fine by me. But I think the end result just fell short.
It pales in comparison to both QR's previous albums and to AIC and Soundgarden. You and Spool are great songs, and the rest are OK to poor (imo).
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Of course this lineup has to skip us.
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Lethean - good post. I think that's fair. I happen to think songs such as Sign of the Times, The Voice Inside, Some People Fly, Hit the Black, and Reach belong with You and spOOL as the best tunes on the record. For me personally, I'd add Hero, as DeGarmo's guitar work is awesome, although perhaps by design, the vocal is very monotone. Chasing Blue Sky, while a b-side, would be on my list for the record's main running order. I could cut the rest. But it is what it is. I find an album that contains 8 to 9 songs that I like to be a good one.
Animal - Tate, in Queensryche's original configuration, played keyboards and sax (not to mention a little rhythm guitar on the Rage tour) when needed, but he didn't write the music at all. He may have suggested direction, but the music of Queensryche's original lineup was composed mostly by DeGarmo and Wilton, with Jackson and Rockenfield having a few writing credits once the 90s came in. Queensryche's lyrics and vocal melodies were crafted by Tate and DeGarmo. And DeGarmo worked with Tate a lot on his vocal melodies. So the band's writing was truly a very collaborative effort between the two of them, adding in Wilton from the EP-Empire (he was less involved in PL and HITNF as the material strayed away from his strengths as a writer).
re: Anybody Listening? Funny you feel that way. I find Anybody Listening to be the band's finest songs, with very impactful lyrics. I think lyrics are a personal thing. You either connect with them, or you don't. The message in that song has always hit home for me. Some good stuff by Tate there.
Edit - just saw the current version of Queensryche released a video for "Sicdeth." Pretty disturbing. I gotta say, I think some of their videos have been pretty good over the last few records. I can't pinpoint which ones, but absolutely way better than the stuff they did post-Promised Land.
I will say though, that this version of QR does something annoying to me. They tend to use phrases from Tate and DeGarmo's lyrics in their new songs quite frequently. I heard "toss the key" in "Sicdeth" which reminded me totally of "One and Only." Again, could be coincidental, but I doubt it. This happens on every single album they've done with La Torre, multiple times per record. Just not something I care for.
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I will say though, that this version of QR does something annoying to me. They tend to use phrases from Tate and DeGarmo's lyrics in their new songs quite frequently. I heard "toss the key" in "Sicdeth" which reminded me totally of "One and Only." Again, could be coincidental, but I doubt it. This happens on every single album they've done with La Torre, multiple times per record. Just not something I care for.
Same! I picked up on it right away on the s/t. And that first time, in that context, I thought it was actually a cool nod and was in favor of it. When he did it again on Condition Human, it immediately bothered me, which I mentioned. And, yes, it has continued. And rather than being a cool bit of connective tissue, it is an unnecessary distraction.
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I may have to take that show in as well. I only saw Marty once, in 1997 or 1998 on the Cryptic tour. Ozzfest.
In addition to the times I saw him with Megadeth, I was fortunate enough to see him in a place here in NJ about twice the size of my basement back in 2019. His band is absolutely amazing. Not really being familiar with much of his discography past 'Scenes' and 'Introduction', it was still a fantastic show. If QR/MF is anywhere close to me next year, I'll be checking it out for sure.
Whenever his last tour rolled through the Bay Area, I was tempted. My wife and I didn't go, for some reason (probably work-related), but I'd like to see his solo performance.
The crazy thing is the ticket was $23, too. His 2nd guitarist, Jordan Ziff, was the guitarist in the last iteration of Ratt and was great. His bassist and drummer, both Japanese, were phenomenal. Hopefully, he has maintained the same band because they were so much fun to watch.
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Looking back with the years behind me and being around late 70s early 80s metal scene it becomes so apparent that what hurt QR was THEY MATURED TOO FAST for the fan base, I can now look back and see the parallels to the Beatles 8 year run from 62 to 70 and how many fans wanted them to be the early bealtes and did not the later band.
The crazy metal mullet of the time wanted them to stay at EP level, we always scratched our head on each release going a bit farther until Tate was wearing pleated pants on stage .... the fans were simply not maturing as quick.
the comparo to the Beatles is very loose but shows an unbelievable run that is almost still unfathomable by the Beatles
but I now can go back and enjoy that evolution more and more and ,,, like I say CDG evolved into a man in front of our eyes who just walked away to save his family and chase the sky. to me that was QUEENSRYCHE. It was a fun time.
This is why I think I simply chuckle at the NEW "QR" its polar opposite IMO it tarnishes the memory of the original vision. IMO of course
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This is why I think I simply chuckle at the NEW "QR" its polar opposite IMO it tarnishes the memory of the original vision. IMO of course
I'd say Sao Paulo 2012 and having 2 bands running around with the same name did way more to tarninsh the memory of Queensryche than any new music possibly could. If Wilton and Jackson are happy with the new music they're creating and there are fans who enjoy it, I don't see the problem. At least they ARE putting out new music. How many bands are out there with 0-1 original members that tour for decades and don't put out ANY new music?!?
The fact of the matter is this is where we're at... There's a Queensryche and Geoff Tate solo band. Everyone is entitled to embrace one or the other, or both, or neither and stick with the first 4-5 albums. We're all lucky to have that choice. Speaking for myself, I prefer QR's newer output over that of GT. I find them to be a more authentic version of their former self. I've never heard MW or EJ say they hate metal one moment (or ever) and then go out and play QotR the next.
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I've always thought that Eddie was really singing. Certainly during the Todd years you can hear him pretty clearly, or at least you can hear a voice that isn't Todd so I assume it's him. I guess he could be even pretending to sing to his own voice prerecorded.
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Samsara: Thanks for the info. DeGarmo seemed like a kind of musician who would bring a pretty much finished song, not just a riff or an idea - a very complete songwriter. Not sure how things worked with Wilton/Tate songs where CDG would claim no credit - I think you said in the past that CDG would help without taking credit, is that right?
Re.Anybody Listening - this is my favorite QR song too. And, as I said before, there is a lot of good stuff in the lyrics. I just don't like some parts that are too direct or preachy ("think for yourself") - even if I agree with the message. It is just my professional conditioning to be nitpicky about the way people express their ideas.
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The Tateryche years are what tarnished their legacy imo. Now with Todd on board they make at least decent music again.
Is it as good as their best work? No, definitely not, but those four records are miles better than anything post DeGarmo and for me even better than HITNF and sometimes Promised Land. Or the EP for that matter. And maybe even some songs on The Warning.
Strictly imo of course.
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The Tateryche years are what tarnished their legacy imo. Now with Todd on board they make at least decent music again.
Is it as good as their best work? No, definitely not, but those four records are miles better than anything post DeGarmo and for me even better than HITNF and sometimes Promised Land. Or the EP for that matter. And maybe even some songs on The Warning.
Strictly imo of course.
Yup :tup
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I happen to think DNA is on par with their best work. I'll be in the minority with this opinion. Truly how I feel though.
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I happen to think DNA is on par with their best work. I'll be in the minority with this opinion. Truly how I feel though.
I feel the same way about the new album. It's the first album with Todd that really hits me hard, even as much as I enjoyed the prior 3 at times.
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I've always thought that Eddie was really singing. Certainly during the Todd years you can hear him pretty clearly, or at least you can hear a voice that isn't Todd so I assume it's him. I guess he could be even pretending to sing to his own voice prerecorded.
Eddie sings live. Always has. To my ears, I believe (based on the last time I saw TLT-era QR in fall 2021) that Todd sings to a very low pre-recorded backing track of himself (as does Tate now). Eddie though - his background vocals are live. If you hear background vocals that are pre-recorded, it's part of the track Todd sings to. But Eddie is singing live. Just listen to them do Screaming in Digital. That's all live. That said, while Ed is credited on the records as doing background vocals - they are actually Todd. Ed gets credited since he does them all live. That's just how they do it as a band.
Samsara: Thanks for the info. DeGarmo seemed like a kind of musician who would bring a pretty much finished song, not just a riff or an idea - a very complete songwriter. Not sure how things worked with Wilton/Tate songs where CDG would claim no credit - I think you said in the past that CDG would help without taking credit, is that right?
Re.Anybody Listening - this is my favorite QR song too. And, as I said before, there is a lot of good stuff in the lyrics. I just don't like some parts that are too direct or preachy ("think for yourself") - even if I agree with the message. It is just my professional conditioning to be nitpicky about the way people express their ideas.
Yes, DeGarmo was the most complete songwriter in the band. On the Tate/Wilton songs, it generally is Wilton's riff (you can tell his style pretty clearly) and he could have a bridge or chorus part, etc. But oftentimes DeGarmo would arrange the parts to complete the tune. They worked in tandem. If it was a lot, DeGarmo got a co-credit. If it wasn't, then he wouldn't. If you listen to the original lineup songs, the simpler arrangements tended to be the songs that were credited to Tate/Wilton. Take a look and see. Speak, Reach, Resistance, Deliverance, etc. Then compare to stuff like The Mission, The Whisper, Anybody Listening, Suite Sister Mary, etc. The arrangements tended to be a little more advanced when the song was DeGarmo's...especially as the band got into the mid-to-late-1980s and early 1990s.
That's how I understood it all. Makes a lot of sense when you look back at the catalog.
edit - regarding the live singing to the backing track...that's what I believe I've heard. Not saying definitively. The was based on what I heard at the show at the Snoqualmie Casino in October 2021 (the last time I saw this version of QR). Obviously, I could be mistaken and mean no offense to the band. And as for Tate, it's based on what I've heard on YouTube the last few years.
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p.s. Spotify gave me a code for today's presale of QR tickets. Anyone needing any early, use the code ALLIANCE. Looks like it's for the full tour, according to the email.
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I happen to think DNA is on par with their best work. I'll be in the minority with this opinion. Truly how I feel though.
I feel the same way about the new album. It's the first album with Todd that really hits me hard, even as much as I enjoyed the prior 3 at times.
This is the first Todd album that sounded like QR to me. The others are good and mostly just straight up metal, but this one seems like it could fit somewhere between Empire and HINTF. For me, it has elements of those albums. I was generally shocked by the sound of this album.
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Would love to see them headline a show, but I NO LONGER want to go into NYC for a show (unless a can't miss show - talking to YOU Riverside) and they're not playing The Keswick for some reason, so I'll pass :-\.
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Would love to see them headline a show, but I NO LONGER want to go into NYC for a show (unless a can't miss show - talking to YOU Riverside) and they're not playing The Keswick for some reason, so I'll pass :-\.
I'm not a big enough QR fan to make the treck into the city. There's just a lot of shows already on my calender for 2023, if my slate was emptier I would consider it, but right now, I'm not attending the QR NYC show. If it were at Starland, I'd more likely go, that's the only time I've seen them when they played there in 2020.
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This is first-world problems kind of talk, but the venue they are playing by me has turned into an awful one. It used to be, before LiveNation took control, a great place to see a show. The sight lines weren't always idea, but if you're not a big fan of GA, there were plenty of spots you could go to isolate yourself (meaning around others but not crushed on the floor) where you could see well and stay out of the fray. But once LN took over, they took all those spots, put seats, and now made them upgradeable...usually at 100 per ticket to upgrade. So if I bought a 30 dollar ticket, I could get a seat at a table around the outskirts of the pit (raised platforms) for another 100 bucks. My wife and I tried it a few times for various acts - it's too expensive an upgrade for the value, at least for us.
The problem now is, they've put an outline on the floor, and because of the upgraded seats, they enforce those lines like crazy -- so everyone in the GA pit is squished together with no room whatsoever. In this kind of environment, coming out of the pandemic, and it not really being over, that's just uncomfortable. I mean, you're shoulder to shoulder with maybe a couple inches in-between people, front-to-back. I've seen it first hand at Jerry Cantrell, and with Sevendust, not to mention BLS.
I'm not a fan. Mrs. Samsara and I talked about it, and we're going to skip it, which sucks, because we'd both love to see Marty perform again. We just don't want to be crammed into such a tight space because LN has to make its upgrades every show.
There are other venues in the area (I can think of two that could hold the show just fine, capacity-wise), but it seems QR is devoted to playing only LN venues. Sucks.
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I happen to think DNA is on par with their best work. I'll be in the minority with this opinion. Truly how I feel though.
I feel the same way about the new album. It's the first album with Todd that really hits me hard, even as much as I enjoyed the prior 3 at times.
This is the first Todd album that sounded like QR to me. The others are good and mostly just straight up metal, but this one seems like it could fit somewhere between Empire and HINTF. For me, it has elements of those albums. I was generally shocked by the sound of this album.
Fantastic!
It took a long time but I've come round to accepting this lineup for what they are and the Queensryche I knew and loved for what they were. So while no-one can capture the magic of that original band I really do enjoy where this lineup are heading.
Still think the Verdict was the more consistent of the last two albums and as a standalone record came closest to the old days, but no argument there are a few songs on DNA that take that even further, 3 or 4 tracks are well up there with the strongest old-school QR I've heard from them yet! :metal
Sidenote; about my only gripe with this lineup is I wish Todd would sing in a lower register more often. Sacrilege for some sure but I just find he's going for the higher registers too often and he's impressed enough already, now I just want the songs to breathe some more. Am not talking about the likes of Forest etc, just overall including the heavy numbers.
Something Tate was so good at was bringing that warmth and depth to a song without needing to be up there all there time. And that's not a vocal range comparison because honestly don't care for it, but simply comparing what else each of them bring to their compositions.
2c some change and hope that makes sense ;)
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This is first-world problems kind of talk, but the venue they are playing by me has turned into an awful one. It used to be, before LiveNation took control, a great place to see a show. The sight lines weren't always idea, but if you're not a big fan of GA, there were plenty of spots you could go to isolate yourself (meaning around others but not crushed on the floor) where you could see well and stay out of the fray. But once LN took over, they took all those spots, put seats, and now made them upgradeable...usually at 100 per ticket to upgrade. So if I bought a 30 dollar ticket, I could get a seat at a table around the outskirts of the pit (raised platforms) for another 100 bucks. My wife and I tried it a few times for various acts - it's too expensive an upgrade for the value, at least for us.
The problem now is, they've put an outline on the floor, and because of the upgraded seats, they enforce those lines like crazy -- so everyone in the GA pit is squished together with no room whatsoever. In this kind of environment, coming out of the pandemic, and it not really being over, that's just uncomfortable. I mean, you're shoulder to shoulder with maybe a couple inches in-between people, front-to-back. I've seen it first hand at Jerry Cantrell, and with Sevendust, not to mention BLS.
I'm not a fan. Mrs. Samsara and I talked about it, and we're going to skip it, which sucks, because we'd both love to see Marty perform again. We just don't want to be crammed into such a tight space because LN has to make its upgrades every show.
There are other venues in the area (I can think of two that could hold the show just fine, capacity-wise), but it seems QR is devoted to playing only LN venues. Sucks.
That's a bummer. That raised area by the bar to the left of the stage was a great vantage point and way to avoid being crammed into the sardine can on the floor. I haven't been there in quite awhile, and I don't think I ever saw a show there from down on the floor, so I can't speak to how good/bad it is. But I'm taller and don't mind the pit as much as you, so I'm not going to rule it out just yet. May still end up going.
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This is first-world problems kind of talk, but the venue they are playing by me has turned into an awful one. It used to be, before LiveNation took control, a great place to see a show. The sight lines weren't always idea, but if you're not a big fan of GA, there were plenty of spots you could go to isolate yourself (meaning around others but not crushed on the floor) where you could see well and stay out of the fray. But once LN took over, they took all those spots, put seats, and now made them upgradeable...usually at 100 per ticket to upgrade. So if I bought a 30 dollar ticket, I could get a seat at a table around the outskirts of the pit (raised platforms) for another 100 bucks. My wife and I tried it a few times for various acts - it's too expensive an upgrade for the value, at least for us.
The problem now is, they've put an outline on the floor, and because of the upgraded seats, they enforce those lines like crazy -- so everyone in the GA pit is squished together with no room whatsoever. In this kind of environment, coming out of the pandemic, and it not really being over, that's just uncomfortable. I mean, you're shoulder to shoulder with maybe a couple inches in-between people, front-to-back. I've seen it first hand at Jerry Cantrell, and with Sevendust, not to mention BLS.
I'm not a fan. Mrs. Samsara and I talked about it, and we're going to skip it, which sucks, because we'd both love to see Marty perform again. We just don't want to be crammed into such a tight space because LN has to make its upgrades every show.
There are other venues in the area (I can think of two that could hold the show just fine, capacity-wise), but it seems QR is devoted to playing only LN venues. Sucks.
I've been to one venue, Paradise Rock Club in Boston, that had those lines. SOOO annoying. I just wanted to be on the other side of it to give myself a little bit of space but nooooo said security.
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I haven't been to the Paradise since the mid 90's, but I never thought it was a great place to see a show.
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So...despite being a huge fan of QR, especially during the run from the EP - HITNF, I never bought another album until American Soldier. Out of curiosity last night I listened to Tribe for the first time.
The entire album has an undercurrent of solemness to it. Almost feels like an acoustic album. The instruments sound more raw especially the drums. Tate's voice still sounds decent but you can hear the beginnings of a difference. It's an interesting listen...one that I have to give props to because at the time, I'm certain this album really threw hard-core fans off. Kind of reminds me of Dokken's Shadowlife album. Like at the time, there was a collective sadness and introspection from the band and it comes through in the music.
I'm going to work my way through everything I haven't heard. Tribe will get more spins though. I enjoyed it.
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Tribe is probably my favorite album of the Tateryche era (1999-2012), but even as such, it's not a great album by any means. I enjoy the title track and the opener, Blood is kind of underrated, and Losing myself is fun, it could have been a hit.
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Tribe could have been so much more with CDG returning but was such a big disappointment. And the live disc from that tour (The Art Of Live) is even worse.
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Tribe could have been so much more with CDG returning but was such a big disappointment. And the live disc from that tour (The Art Of Live) is even worse.
This kinda sums up my experience...at least initially.
I wish the whole 'DeGarmo' thing had been kept under wraps better. I was working at a record store at the time, and I distinctly remember a conversation with our local rep (oh, how the industry has changed) where he was disclosing the 'wink wink' "big plans" QR had for the album and subsequent tour. "You didn't hear this from me, but..."
So, I went into the album with incredibly high expectations. How could I not? After all, Chris was back with the band.
Upon initial listen, I noticed his credits weren't what I expected and was nowhere to be found in the band pictures. Then, the album itself felt like a continuation of HITNF. Not exactly what I was hoping for. Once the absence of DeGarmo was confirmed, I was so bummed/crushed, I largely ignored Tribe for many years to come.
Now, in retrospect, I consider it the last QR album I can listen to front-to-back. In fact, in recent years, I've gone back to Tribe and have thoroughly enjoyed how fresh it sounds.
As for the "Art of Life" live release...well, that's something that I have no interest in ever revisiting.
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I don't hate American Soldier
The guy that made the CD-R for me totally fucked up the track order, but I remember it working way better that way. :lol
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I was only lukewarm on AS but I thought it was better than Tribe. In fact almost everything is better than Tribe imo.
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At the time it was released, I was REALLY into Tribe. I don't listen to it very much anymore though. I loved Open. The title track was really groovy too. I never really cared for the fact that Degarmo was "back," I just wanted good songs.
The tour for the album was really great though. That was the year that they started bringing back some Empire deeper cuts - The Thin Line and Another Rainy Night. They only played 2 tracks from Mindcrime (Breaking the Silence and Needle Lies). And there was a really cool 3-song acoustic moment in the middle of the set, plus plenty of songs from Tribe.
A year later, they brought back Mindcrime suites and would alternate those songs each night, which was fun.
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Tribe is probably on my Top 3 QR albums (OM, PL and Tribe). I love the vibe of most of the songs even though they sound a bit AORish. The live album that came out of this tour was subpar, though I did catch them live in Albuquerque and the show itself was pretty good.
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I love the DeGarmo-involved Tribe tracks (Open, Desert Dance, The Art of Life, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine...and Justified, after the fact) as a whole way more than the rest of Tribe where he wasn't involved (Losing Myshit, Rhythm of Hope, Tribe, The Great Divide, Blood). The DeGarmo tracks sound like a natural evolution from Hear in the Now Frontier, heavier, better production, and evolving. But I still enjoy the title track, Rhythm of Hope and The Great Divide. I don't really listen to the record as a whole, given the above (I tend to favor the DeGarmo involved stuff), but there's overall good stuff on Tribe, even if a few of the tracks aren't finished (Blood, The Great Divide).
The Tribe Tour was fantastic. I really enjoyed it that Fall, after QR/DT/FW toured. Saw it a bunch of times all over the country (a few spots in Cali, back on Long Island), and they were mixing up setlists and doing some good stuff.
The Art of Live, as a live album was fraught with issues. From a video perspective, the cameras they invested in to shoot the footage themselves were overpowered by the lights, forcing them either to scrap the release or do it in sepia tone, which they opted for. Second, the mix was terrible. Overall, one of the more disappointing things QR has ever released. Could have, and should have been more.
The Art of Live tour, however, was really, really good. May 1, 2004, I remember being in Vegas, and the band had Pamela Moore out with them doing background vocals. They get to Take Hold, which was mid-set, before they launched into Mindcrime (which setlist.fm has wrong - they did not play Suite Sister Mary. I remember because I remember thinking how odd it was. They also didn't play Mindcrime in its entirety because the latter segues, Waiting for 22 and My Empty Room, were not played. Anyway, Tate, to the whole band's surprise, hit and held the Tate Hold note clearly. It was the first time I'd heard him do it in-full, and from their reactions, which I'll get to a minute, it was totally unplanned. This was before camera phones were really a huge thing, and HOB had a strict policy against cameras and recording, so I couldn't record anything. But it surprised Wilton and Jackson so much that they looked at one another, had shit-eating grins on their faces, and then jammed the rest of that tune HARD. It was really cool to see. I'll never forget it. A hell of a show.
It was after that, that they decided to do the MC sequel, and do that whole tour in fall 2004/winter 2005 doing Mindcrime in-full . Which I was lukewarm on. The best tour of the Tateryche period though was that stint in Summer 2005 opening for Judas Priest. Tate was singing incredibly well, and QR played a very metal set with early stuff. I really enjoyed that.
American Soldier is my favorite record from the Tateryche years. Ironically, Tate is the weak point on the whole record. His vocals just aren't that great. Musically, I thought Slater's songs were strong, and made better because the entirety of Queensryche (Rockenfield, Jackson, Wilton) played the music. I think the record limps to the finish line, and it is missing the perspective of pride in serving your country (Tate was very slanted, lyrically). But in general, I really enjoyed that record. The tour was great too. American Soldier, Empire, RFO, all done in about six or seven song suites.
Good times.
:metal
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I liked Tribe a lot when it came out. It felt like a heavier, darker Promised Land, which I thought was great. Saw the joint tour with DT twice, and the band's slightly different image fit the dark, brooding music very well. But after the newness of the album kind of wore off, I was left feeling like it was half an album of really good stuff (mostly the stuff CDG helped with), and half an album of pretty subpar stuff. Actually, maybe along the lines of 1/3 really good; 1/3 decent; 1/3 awful.
The Good:
-Open--REALLY good song. Surprisingly good as an album opener given the mid-tempo vibe that never deviates. I know they were going for simpler, more stripped down music, but this song could have REALLY been elevated even more by a ripping guitar solo and feels unfinished.
-Desert Dance--Good song. I know it got mixed reviews, but I always really liked it.
-The Great Divide--I like the Tool vibe.
-The Art of Life--This song probably feels more like "Queensryche" than anything else on the album, despite not really sounding like any specific song in their discography.
The Decent:
-Losing Myself--The worst of this middle group, but I'm fine with it as a quirky, different little filler song.
-Tribe--Easily the best of this group and could have been in the next group up with better lyrics.
-Doin' Fine--Not a bad song at all. I seem to remember it getting blasted quite a bit. I never understood the dislike.
The Bad:
-Falling Behind
-Rhythm of Hope
-Blood
I don't have any specific recollection of Justified. I've heard it several times, and while I didn't hate it, it did absolutely nothing for me that made me want to replay it or even remember it. Never understood the hype.
Brian, didn't Hostage also come out of these sessions, or am I misremembering?
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Yes, the Hostage demo was created very late in the sessions and too late for inclusion.
It was later re-recorded for Mindcrime II (and made worse). The demo of that song is one of the best-post DeGarmo songs Queensryche has ever done, IMO. The album version on MC II takes the teeth and edge out of the tune. Such a shame.
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Always enjoyed Tribe. I didn't know a whole lot about the background when it came out, other than DeGarmo had been involved in the songwriting. I vaguely remember reading in magazines rumors that DeGarmo had actually returned as a full-time member. Learned a bit more about that recently from Samsara, between the book and conversations on this thread...
Anyway, as I was saying, regardless of the back story, I always thought Tribe was a significant step up from Q2K. It's my favorite of the Tateryche era, by some margin. These days, I think I prefer it to HITNF too, although the latter might have higher highs. It does feel a bit unfinished at times, but the songs are generally very good, and there is a certain "warmth" to the its songwriting approach.
Looking at Bosk's groupings, and thinking along the same lines...Open, Desert Dance and The Great Divide all belong to my "good" group too. To that, however, I add Tribe, Rhythm of Hope and Blood (what do you dislike so much about the latter two, Bosk?). The Art of Life and Doin' Fine I like, but don't love...Falling Behind and Losing Myself are definitely my least favorites, although I can't say I despise them.
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I love the DeGarmo-involved Tribe tracks (Open, Desert Dance, The Art of Life, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine...and Justified, after the fact) as a whole way more than the rest of Tribe where he wasn't involved (Losing Myshit, Rhythm of Hope, Tribe, The Great Divide, Blood). The DeGarmo tracks sound like a natural evolution from Hear in the Now Frontier, heavier, better production, and evolving. But I still enjoy the title track, Rhythm of Hope and The Great Divide. I don't really listen to the record as a whole, given the above (I tend to favor the DeGarmo involved stuff), but there's overall good stuff on Tribe, even if a few of the tracks aren't finished (Blood, The Great Divide).
The Tribe Tour was fantastic. I really enjoyed it that Fall, after QR/DT/FW toured. Saw it a bunch of times all over the country (a few spots in Cali, back on Long Island), and they were mixing up setlists and doing some good stuff.
The Art of Live, as a live album was fraught with issues. From a video perspective, the cameras they invested in to shoot the footage themselves were overpowered by the lights, forcing them either to scrap the release or do it in sepia tone, which they opted for. Second, the mix was terrible. Overall, one of the more disappointing things QR has ever released. Could have, and should have been more.
The Art of Live tour, however, was really, really good. May 1, 2004, I remember being in Vegas, and the band had Pamela Moore out with them doing background vocals. They get to Take Hold, which was mid-set, before they launched into Mindcrime (which setlist.fm has wrong - they did not play Suite Sister Mary. I remember because I remember thinking how odd it was. They also didn't play Mindcrime in its entirety because the latter segues, Waiting for 22 and My Empty Room, were not played. Anyway, Tate, to the whole band's surprise, hit and held the Tate Hold note clearly. It was the first time I'd heard him do it in-full, and from their reactions, which I'll get to a minute, it was totally unplanned. This was before camera phones were really a huge thing, and HOB had a strict policy against cameras and recording, so I couldn't record anything. But it surprised Wilton and Jackson so much that they looked at one another, had shit-eating grins on their faces, and then jammed the rest of that tune HARD. It was really cool to see. I'll never forget it. A hell of a show.
It was after that, that they decided to do the MC sequel, and do that whole tour in fall 2004/winter 2005 doing Mindcrime in-full . Which I was lukewarm on. The best tour of the Tateryche period though was that stint in Summer 2005 opening for Judas Priest. Tate was singing incredibly well, and QR played a very metal set with early stuff. I really enjoyed that.
American Soldier is my favorite record from the Tateryche years. Ironically, Tate is the weak point on the whole record. His vocals just aren't that great. Musically, I thought Slater's songs were strong, and made better because the entirety of Queensryche (Rockenfield, Jackson, Wilton) played the music. I think the record limps to the finish line, and it is missing the perspective of pride in serving your country (Tate was very slanted, lyrically). But in general, I really enjoyed that record. The tour was great too. American Soldier, Empire, RFO, all done in about six or seven song suites.
Good times.
:metal
Sorry to be a noob, but what's the "Tate Hold note"? I love that story, though; I've experienced that sort of phenomena, where a band is reacting en masse to a situation or event and it can be clearly heard in the music, three or four times and it's magic whenever it does happen.
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...Rhythm of Hope and Blood (what do you dislike so much about the latter two, Bosk?).
The first one just bores me to tears. There's nothing whatsoever about it that interests me.
Blood is also uninteresting, musically, I don't like the vocals, and the lyrics are the worst the band has ever written that aren't about Susan Tate's privates.
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Here's my take on Chris and Tribe. And this is entirely my opinion.
I think he had every intention of returning to the band during the Tribe period. Photos of all five of them were taken (Chris was photoshopped out), there were other songs in the works (Justified), others with parts for Chris left undone (Blood is missing a whole second guitar, the slide guitar in rhythm of hope was supposed to be Chris, etc.). He was even, according to various people, scheduled to do the 12/31/02 New Years Even show in Anchorage, Alaska, as a sort of "soft launch" of being back. (Can't verify that without asking him directly, but that has been out there for years.) But when they were doing vocals and going over vocal melodies for the songs on Tribe, there were issues between how what they used to do (DeGarmo and Tate working together and trying different things), and what Tate now preferred (to call the shots and do it himself the way he wanted to). And when outside parties (read that as outside of the five of the band members) got involved with their opinions, and Tate was unwilling to budge, Chris (again, totally my opinion) just threw his hands up and left. And IF it played out that way, I wouldn't have blamed him.
All the way through DeGarmo's initial tenure with the band, Queensryche was always about doing things the right way. INVESTING in the band. Taking what they've earned and putting it into the band to make the band bigger and ultimately, increase their profile and long term viability and stability. And when Chris left in 1997, it became "how can we do this the cheapest in order to pocket the most money for ourselves." And that, in my opinion, was where the band was at when Chris attempted to write and record with them in 2002 and 2003. Those two things, IMO, are what drove Chris away during Tribe.
He allegedly tried again after Mindcrime II...during the period where they released Sign of the Times: The Best of Queensryche, and put Justified on there (the song for Tribe Chris was working on and didn't complete before he left then). But allegedly the same issues reared their head - choosing to do things on the cheap, instead of investing in the band, and that put an end to any hopeful reunion.
DeGarmo, to his credit, has always seemed to be a guy that understood that you have to be willing to invest to reach your fullest potential. And that's how QR became famous in the first place and achieved so much success. But relationships (new marriages, new people involved) can change existing relationships and how things operated previously. That's just life, sometimes. Again, to Chris' credit, he's always said he's on good terms with all of them, and that's what he wanted. And if that's true, all the more power to him. Just a shame things never panned out.
But the original band left us with six full length records, an EP, a live record and another handful of great songs. And I'm pretty damn thankful for that. Those five guys were truly a band that was a sum of its parts. They've never been the same without all of them.
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Sorry to be a noob, but what's the "Tate Hold note"? I love that story, though; I've experienced that sort of phenomena, where a band is reacting en masse to a situation or event and it can be clearly heard in the music, three or four times and it's magic whenever it does happen.
I'm guessing he meant "Take Hold note" and is referring to the note that Tate hits at 1:10 of the studio recording: ". . . distant signs of unforetold. Oooo...ooo...take hooooOOOOOLLLDD!!!"
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Yeah, that one. I was typing fast. lol.
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Thanks for this! Very well explained! :tup
Here's my take on Chris and Tribe. And this is entirely my opinion.
I think he had every intention of returning to the band during the Tribe period. Photos of all five of them were taken (Chris was photoshopped out), there were other songs in the works (Justified), others with parts for Chris left undone (Blood is missing a whole second guitar, the slide guitar in rhythm of hope was supposed to be Chris, etc.). He was even, according to various people, scheduled to do the 12/31/02 New Years Even show in Anchorage, Alaska, as a sort of "soft launch" of being back. (Can't verify that without asking him directly, but that has been out there for years.) But when they were doing vocals and going over vocal melodies for the songs on Tribe, there were issues between how what they used to do (DeGarmo and Tate working together and trying different things), and what Tate now preferred (to call the shots and do it himself the way he wanted to). And when outside parties (read that as outside of the five of the band members) got involved with their opinions, and Tate was unwilling to budge, Chris (again, totally my opinion) just threw his hands up and left. And IF it played out that way, I wouldn't have blamed him.
All the way through DeGarmo's initial tenure with the band, Queensryche was always about doing things the right way. INVESTING in the band. Taking what they've earned and putting it into the band to make the band bigger and ultimately, increase their profile and long term viability and stability. And when Chris left in 1997, it became "how can we do this the cheapest in order to pocket the most money for ourselves." And that, in my opinion, was where the band was at when Chris attempted to write and record with them in 2002 and 2003. Those two things, IMO, are what drove Chris away during Tribe.
He allegedly tried again after Mindcrime II...during the period where they released Sign of the Times: The Best of Queensryche, and put Justified on there (the song for Tribe Chris was working on and didn't complete before he left then). But allegedly the same issues reared their head - choosing to do things on the cheap, instead of investing in the band, and that put an end to any hopeful reunion.
DeGarmo, to his credit, has always seemed to be a guy that understood that you have to be willing to invest to reach your fullest potential. And that's how QR became famous in the first place and achieved so much success. But relationships (new marriages, new people involved) can change existing relationships and how things operated previously. That's just life, sometimes. Again, to Chris' credit, he's always said he's on good terms with all of them, and that's what he wanted. And if that's true, all the more power to him. Just a shame things never panned out.
But the original band left us with six full length records, an EP, a live record and another handful of great songs. And I'm pretty damn thankful for that. Those five guys were truly a band that was a sum of its parts. They've never been the same without all of them.
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Still like American Soldier a lot but as Brian said it's finale really crawls to the finish line and for that reason I kinda put it and Tribe on par but Tribe's highlights are superior.
Open, Tribe, The Art Of Life and Justified are the highlights and the rest is pretty good tbh the only song I can't stand is the Stone co-write Losing Myself which kills all the excitement and hope that was offered with Open. Ridiculous song and clearly (IMO) what Wilton was referring to when interviewed before the albums release suggesting he did not want Queensryche to become some pop band (or words to that effect)!?
As a side, while don't really regard them the same Queensryche these days but love all the same, because of that I was nervous what Stone would bring to the current lineup but thankfully seems he's redeemed himself on DNA :laugh:
Anyway, when it works Tribe does have a warmth and appeal to it but clearly was a huge missed opportunity, as had they completed the record as intended and forged on who knows what wonders the original lineup may have come up with since. Absolutely would not have gotten the bog average MCII as it were that's fer sure ;)
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Hi, long time lurker first time poster here.
Not sure if this should have it's own thread but am I the only one disappointed in the videos for the last four records?
They tend to be cut way too quickly, overly literal and a bit repetitive. Not to mention just straight up ignorant.
I was a scene/costume design student so it's possible I pay attention more than the average viewer.
Sicdeth- silly revenge fantasy, not sure what the message was there. Maybe a bit tone deaf considering the mass shooting issues of the last 15 years. Was it supposed to be anti-exploitation, while at the same time being incredibly male gazey?
Hold on- trying to decry shallowness while being just as shallow. Pointing at gen Z like this just makes the band look like a bunch of old harumphs. Trend following and materialism are nothing new, it's just more technological now. What's with the digs at plastic surgery? I'd bet my ass someone's GF/wife of the boys has had a nip/tuck or two, seems a bit hypocritical. It's also unintentionally sexist. A lot of the imagery is women putting on makeup, applying lipstick (there are multiple shots of this throughout the video), mascara, shoe shopping, trying on clothes etc. They do show both men and woman on their devices. But they don't show men buying motorcycles, golf clubs, boats, watches. Meaning the things women stereotypically buy are shallow but the things men spend money on aren't? Along with at least 3 or 4 shots of pills/pill taking. Really?! Fuck you, I need my meds to function. WTF Queensryche, do better.
Behind the walls- it's fine, I like the cuts with the bonfire in the background. This is where it gets overly literal: feelings of alienation? let's put a literal alien here. Family troubles? let's have this person scribble out a stick figure family. Also she seems a bit old for this kind of therapy. The blood pouring out is probably supposed to represent overflowing pain, but all I could think was, man this chick is having a heavy flow. Similar to both parts of IT when the bathroom fills up with period blood.
Rorschach tests haven't been used in quite some time I believe. Reaching out and trying to touch your client without permission is a no no and she was right to slap his hand away. "Same time next week?" um no Todd, you're actually a terrible therapist.
In Extremis- yeah, not much to say about this one. It does a pretty good job catching each members' individual energy, I like it.
Light-years - see above. pretty much the same thing but with different visual effects added.
Guardian - performance video
Fallout- again, same
Redemption-yep, a bit goofy
Forest - at least the visuals make sense to the context of the song, even if they are a bit cheesy.
Ad Lucem- meh, also very cheesy
As far as I know the band is happy with the results and it's their money. There's just nothing there for me to desire repeat viewings.
Whatever message they are trying to convey in the non band performance videos is done very poorly. I mean not everyone can hit the ground running like Robert Eggers or most of the A-24 catalogue but this is just bad.
Imagine a Queensryche vid directed by Panos Cosmatos!? Please for the love of Bob somebody make that happen!
Re: Degarmo- I would love to hear what he and La Torre could come up with. No shade on Todd but I think he could benefit from Chris's mentorship on lyrics and add a more complex sound. Tate and Degarmo were the Yin to the rest of the band's Yang. That kind of push/pull is missing, currently it's more Yang on top of Yang. I'm not talking about Degarmo taking over by any stretch or touring with them, just adding his flavor to an already good mix. Considering how much Todd loves early ryche I would imagine Chris getting a better reception from him than he did Tate. What could it hurt to invite him to get together and noodle around sometime?
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Last night's listen was OM:II.
Honestly, this was an unpleasant chore to get through. Just nothing there to hold my attention. A few songs I got 3 minutes into and skipped to the next. Tribe was way better. I have no desire to hear this one again.
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Autumnhoney - the door has always been open for Chris to work with QR and work with Tate. He chooses not to. IMO, that should speak volumes. Not speaking for him, and entirely my opinion. But it's pretty obvious there is no interest. You also have to remember that if he did choose to work with current QR, or with Tate, it would be viewed as "taking a side," which I am sure he has no interest in. He's said before that all of the original QR guys know what kind of creative chemistry they have together. I think DeGarmo wisely stays out of the bullshit.
As for the videos of the TLT-era, I think they are very creative in terms of concept, but they have been a little samey since Ad Lucem. But I'm not a film/visual arts expert, so if you are, then that observation is probably spot-on.
Welcome to the forum.
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Welcome to the forum.
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Thank you for the welcome.
That's too bad. I wondered if he even pays attention to QR these days, beyond maybe giving their stuff a listen once or twice. It sounds like he buried and mourned that particular romance a while ago. I know he's still friends with them individually.
As for taking sides, Geoff was the one that said Chris's input wasn't needed. I don't believe Todd or the other guys have ever said such a thing. Geoff already turned down the offer, so there are no sides to choose. Oh well, it's easy for me to say because I tend to be very picky about who influences my decision making. Similar personality types in my immediate circle can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.
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Autumnhoney welcome to the forum. :)
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Thank you for the welcome.
That's too bad. I wondered if he even pays attention to QR these days, beyond maybe giving their stuff a listen once or twice. It sounds like he buried and mourned that particular romance a while ago. I know he's still friends with them individually.
As for taking sides, Geoff was the one that said Chris's input wasn't needed. I don't believe Todd or the other guys have ever said such a thing. Geoff already turned down the offer, so there are no sides to choose. Oh well, it's easy for me to say because I tend to be very picky about who influences my decision making. Similar personality types in my immediate circle can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.
Chris absolutely pays attention to what Queensryche and his former bandmates do. I know that for an absolute fact. For example, he has, and has read, the biography I helped write on the band that published last year. He played live last year with Lily Cornell Silver doing a tribute to Alice in Chains. He played acoustic guitar on "Drone" by Alice in Chains (uncredited except for Jerry Cantrell mentioning it in an interview) on their last album. He's very much still a musician. He's just not in the spotlight. And it seems he really prefers it that way. Can't say I blame him. My respect for Chris has only grown in the last several years. I wish he was more...public with his music. But that's his choice, and I'm thankful for what we have. :)
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Chris absolutely pays attention to what Queensryche and his former bandmates do. I know that for an absolute fact. For example, he has, and has read, the biography I helped write on the band that published last year. He played live last year with Lily Cornell Silver doing a tribute to Alice in Chains. He played acoustic guitar on "Drone" by Alice in Chains (uncredited except for Jerry Cantrell mentioning it in an interview) on their last album. He's very much still a musician. He's just not in the spotlight. And it seems he really prefers it that way. Can't say I blame him. My respect for Chris has only grown in the last several years. I wish he was more...public with his music. But that's his choice, and I'm thankful for what we have. :)
Another notable collaboration (although, amazingly, that's already 17 years old too!!) was on dredg's Catch Without Arms (co-wrote a couple songs, helped with arrangements...can't quite remember if he played on it too). Fantastic album, that one.
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Chris absolutely pays attention to what Queensryche and his former bandmates do. I know that for an absolute fact. For example, he has, and has read, the biography I helped write on the band that published last year. He played live last year with Lily Cornell Silver doing a tribute to Alice in Chains. He played acoustic guitar on "Drone" by Alice in Chains (uncredited except for Jerry Cantrell mentioning it in an interview) on their last album. He's very much still a musician. He's just not in the spotlight. And it seems he really prefers it that way. Can't say I blame him. My respect for Chris has only grown in the last several years. I wish he was more...public with his music. But that's his choice, and I'm thankful for what we have. :)
Another notable collaboration (although, amazingly, that's already 17 years old too!!) was on dredg's Catch Without Arms (co-wrote a couple songs, helped with arrangements...can't quite remember if he played on it too). Fantastic album, that one.
I remember seeing dredg years ago and they talked about working with him, they didn't mention QR so I assumed it was a guy with the same name. I was surprised when I got home and learned it was the same Chris.
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I get it if people don't like that style, but as the years have gone on, I really have come to appreciate HITNF a lot. Sure, there is way more filler than usual (a product of the experiment they did of not over rehearsing the material and just going in and doing it more spontaneous). But the record is completely full of all the usual Queensryche hallmarks. It is, like all the albums before it, an evolution of sound by Queensryche. And I really enjoy the variety.
Took about 15 years since the release date for me to figure this out.
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I don't hate American Soldier
The guy that made the CD-R for me totally fucked up the track order, but I remember it working way better that way. :lol
I think that and Take Cover were the last two Queensryche albums I ever bought. Maybe Mindcrime at the Moore was....
Got off the bus after that never to return.
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Hi, long time lurker first time poster here.
Hold on- trying to decry shallowness while being just as shallow. Pointing at gen Z like this just makes the band look like a bunch of old harumphs. Trend following and materialism are nothing new, it's just more technological now. What's with the digs at plastic surgery? I'd bet my ass someone's GF/wife of the boys has had a nip/tuck or two, seems a bit hypocritical. It's also unintentionally sexist. A lot of the imagery is women putting on makeup, applying lipstick (there are multiple shots of this throughout the video), mascara, shoe shopping, trying on clothes etc. They do show both men and woman on their devices. But they don't show men buying motorcycles, golf clubs, boats, watches. Meaning the things women stereotypically buy are shallow but the things men spend money on aren't? Along with at least 3 or 4 shots of pills/pill taking. Really?! Fuck you, I need my meds to function. WTF Queensryche, do better.
Fascinating.
As much attention as "toxic masculinity" gets in the media, I haven't a single problem with this video.
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I never mentioned "toxic masculinity", It's just not very well thought out. I'm sure a lot of people like it as much as you do, as a matter of fact it has many positive comments. QR videos could be so much more. I don't watch music videos in general unless it's a band I care about, plenty of movies though. I'd expect other genres to be all style no substance, it's pretty much the standard. Tool sets a high bar because Adam Jones is also a visual artist, but I'd use them as an example. I'm sure there are plenty of film students/directors that would like to sink their teeth into QR material. It seems like they've settled for just Okay.
After reading the descriptions Todd gives of the intention for the videos and watching them critically, they're just not a successful interpretation.
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Is anybody here thinking about NOT going when QR swings by their area because of the venue?
March 2023 they'll be at the Crystal Ballroom in Portland. It's a small venue which is a good thing because there are literally no nosebleed seats but it's all general admission. I've sworn to NEVER do GA again after the last concert I went to. It's a long story I won't get into, "it was a bad time" is putting it mildly.
I feel like an ass because I've never seen them live and they probably don't have many tours left in them. But I hate GA SO MUCH!
I'm wondering if it might not be worth taking the train up to Seattle and seeing the show there. Anyone familiar with The Neptune?
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Is anybody here thinking about NOT going when QR swings by their area because of the venue?
March 2023 they'll be at the Crystal Ballroom in Portland. It's a small venue which is a good thing because they're are literally no nosebleed seats but it's all general admission. I've sworn to NEVER do GA again after the last concert I went to. It's a long story I won't get into, "it was a bad time" is putting it mildly.
I feel like an ass because I've never seen them live and they probably don't have many tours left in them. But I hat GA SO MUCH!
I'm wondering if it might not be worth taking the train up to Seattle and seeing the show there. Anyone familiar with The Neptune?
I *LOVE* The Crystal Ballroom. I’ve only been there twice. Once in the late 90s for The Lovemongers (essentially a Heart show). And then in 2012 to see Gotye. I love the acoustics, and I especially love the ballroom “springboard” floor.
If it wasn’t for the midweek date, I would make the trip to Portland just to visit that venue again.
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Is anybody here thinking about NOT going when QR swings by their area because of the venue?
March 2023 they'll be at the Crystal Ballroom in Portland. It's a small venue which is a good thing because they're are literally no nosebleed seats but it's all general admission. I've sworn to NEVER do GA again after the last concert I went to. It's a long story I won't get into, "it was a bad time" is putting it mildly.
I feel like an ass because I've never seen them live and they probably don't have many tours left in them. But I hat GA SO MUCH!
I'm wondering if it might not be worth taking the train up to Seattle and seeing the show there. Anyone familiar with The Neptune?
Yeah, the Crystal Ballroom is a fantastic venue! They have balcony seating if you get there early enough, but I've always preferred the floor for rock shows. I was just at the Neptune Theatre in Seattle last month to see Suede and the Manic Street Preachers, and it was a decent venue. It felt smaller than the Crystal though and nowhere near as beautiful. I recommend getting food/drinks at Big Time Brewing if you decide to go there.
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Is anybody here thinking about NOT going when QR swings by their area because of the venue?
March 2023 they'll be at the Crystal Ballroom in Portland. It's a small venue which is a good thing because there are literally no nosebleed seats but it's all general admission. I've sworn to NEVER do GA again after the last concert I went to. It's a long story I won't get into, "it was a bad time" is putting it mildly.
I feel like an ass because I've never seen them live and they probably don't have many tours left in them. But I hate GA SO MUCH!
I'm wondering if it might not be worth taking the train up to Seattle and seeing the show there. Anyone familiar with The Neptune?
If you hate GA, then perhaps you should avoid their headline tours. That's all they really play these days. Better to wait and see them supporting another band.
I think I posted a couple pages ago that my wife and I were planning to see this tour, but when it was in the local venue (GA) that we absolutely despise, we decided not to. But QR is a club level band as a headliner. They aren't going to really ever get up to the level where DT is at where they do all assigned seating and play theaters. QR has pretty much fallen into that club level circuit and that's all they really can do on their own.
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QR is playing in Milwaukee the same night as Steel Panther, at the same venue. Steel Panther will be in one of the larger rooms and QR will be in one of the smaller rooms, as crazy as that is.
I put in for free tickets for that QR show, since The Rave/Eagles Ballroom runs a contest for each show. I'm doubting that they'd even sell out one of the smaller rooms.
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QR is playing in Milwaukee the same night as Steel Panther, at the same venue. Steel Panther will be in one of the larger rooms and QR will be in one of the smaller rooms, as crazy as that is.
I put in for free tickets for that QR show, since The Rave/Eagles Ballroom runs a contest for each show. I'm doubting that they'd even sell out one of the smaller rooms.
Last time I saw QR in Milwaukee, it was...the Riverside Ballroom, I believe. Is that place still around? I was there November 1999.
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QR is playing in Milwaukee the same night as Steel Panther, at the same venue. Steel Panther will be in one of the larger rooms and QR will be in one of the smaller rooms, as crazy as that is.
I put in for free tickets for that QR show, since The Rave/Eagles Ballroom runs a contest for each show. I'm doubting that they'd even sell out one of the smaller rooms.
Last time I saw QR in Milwaukee, it was...the Riverside Ballroom, I believe. Is that place still around? I was there November 1999.
The Riverside Theater, and it is still there. I saw Megadeth at that theater in 1999. The theater don't host too many metal shows anymore - most of those are at the Rave/Eagles Ballroom.
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I'll always remember the back-to-back shows in Chicago/Milwaukee in 1999. The Chicago one, we missed doubleDrive (unfortunately) the opener. I flew in from New York, and traffic made us miss part of the show. But we were "treated" to some woman who decided to go topless during QR's set and being carried on the shoulders of the guy she was with, strolling all around the GA floor. LOL. Then I ended up getting food poisoning AND a norovirus. I made it (barely) to Milwaukee, saw doubleDrive (who were a great band and put on a killer set), saw QR, slept, got on a plane, went home, packed, left for a work trip, was sick the entire time (I missed half the conference being in my hotel room), got home, managed to file a few stories about the conference (I wisely went to various sessions and stayed for half of them so I could write about them - I was a journalist at the time), got healthy, and then went up to Connecticut to see QR one more time in 1999. Whirlwind two weeks. :lol
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Topless girls during the Queensryche show? Are you sure that wasn't the cabaret tour? ;D
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Topless girls during the Queensryche show? Are you sure that wasn't the cabaret tour? ;D
:rollin
No, this was a free topless woman who was a fan. Not a paid Tate family employee. That cabaret tour was such a shame. The setlist was really cool. But there was no way I was seeing that tour.
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I think the real question Samsara, is did the band appreciate the gesture? I'm not getting any younger, so use it or lose it. ;)
I might have to bite the bullet and venture out on my own for the PDX show, unfortunately I don't know anyone else who'd want to see them. If that's the only option for a while and the sound is that good, it's a dilemma. I have a feeling it might be less rowdy than the APC concert I went to, then again alcohol is being sold, hmm.
Maybe if someone on the board decides to go we can use the buddy system. Perhaps someone with strong shoulders? :metal
I'm more than a bit annoyed they have so many Florida gigs and only a couple in the PNW. I'm guessing it's because half the band lives there now. Poor Eddie.
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I think the real question Samsara, is did the band appreciate the gesture? I'm not getting any younger, so use it or lose it. ;)
They did! That pointed and smiled. I can't remember if they got escorted out or not. I want to say they did, but it was several songs in. 23 years ago, so the brain is a little fuzzy. I wasn't complaining though! It was odd, however, to see that at a QR gig. It was the first and last time I ever saw a woman even flash the band from the crowd, much less just keep em out. And I've seen QR 40 times. LOL.
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I may have taken off my shirt at the Promised Land show. It was pretty hot that night.
Does that count?
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I may have taken off my shirt at the Promised Land show. It was pretty hot that night.
Does that count?
Only for the record for fastest departure from Great Woods in recorded history. The mass exodus after you did that was mind boggling.
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I think the real question Samsara, is did the band appreciate the gesture? I'm not getting any younger, so use it or lose it. ;)
I can't remember if they got escorted out or not.
Over some titties at a concert?! Come on, that's just silly.
If you look at the various concert photos lately there is usually a row of women at the front of the stage. I'm surprised they don't flash a nip nop or two. They look like pretty hardcore fans, I recognize some of them from multiple shows.
TAC I'm not an expert but moobs have to be at least a B cup I think, in order to count.
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My moobs in 1995 were nowhere near as developed as they are now. :lol
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Is "moobs" the official name or did you just make that up? :D
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"Moobs" has been around for a while or "mitties" if you prefer.
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My moobs in 1995 were nowhere near as developed as they are now. :lol
You and me both my friend, I would have been 14 then. I missed out on all the good stuff from the 80's.
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Over some titties at a concert?! Come on, that's just silly.
Yeah, it was. I'm pretty sure they were escorted out though. They were also drunk beyond belief and stumbling, which may have had something to do with it.
re: moobs and TAC - that is a visual I didn't need. LOL
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Me neither. I feel like I've been adjusting my shirt endlessly since I read that. :lol
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I wanted to share this interview with Michael, hopefully it's okay to post. The video only has 265 views, it's a bit older from 2018/19 I think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rra7n7iiAq0&list=LL&index=10
It made me giggle, oh Whip. ::)
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It made me giggle, oh Whip. ::)
??? I have no idea how that statement applies to this interview.
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Listen to what he says at 7:48 and then his reaction at 10:50-11:14.
I forget not everybody is a people watcher. His body language and expression are adorable.
Have you ever been at a restaurant and spotted a couple on their first date vs. their 100th?
I'm genuinely fascinated. The little head swivel as she leaves. :lol
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I think the real question Samsara, is did the band appreciate the gesture? I'm not getting any younger, so use it or lose it. ;)
I can't remember if they got escorted out or not.
Over some titties at a concert?! Come on, that's just silly.
If you look at the various concert photos lately there is usually a row of women at the front of the stage. I'm surprised they don't flash a nip nop or two. They look like pretty hardcore fans, I recognize some of them from multiple shows.
TAC I'm not an expert but moobs have to be at least a B cup I think, in order to count.
TAC qualifies. :) :) :)
If we're on the subject, I think I've seen more topless women at Kiss shows than all other bands combined.
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If we're on the subject, I think I've seen more topless women at Kiss shows than all other bands combined.
Metallica for me - in between the opening band and Metallica coming on stage, there would be a good, hour-long break where fans had to keep themselves entertained. The house lights would come down and the spotlight operators would start shining the spotlight at women who were flashing the crowd so the whole arena's attention was drawn to them.
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Steel Panther for the win - no contest
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Steel Panther for the win - no contest
GAME ...SET.... MATCH
YOU ARE CORRECT AND WON!!!!
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Wouldn't waste the time seeing Steel Panther if the tickets were free and came with a cash prize. Not worth my time.
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I saw the most at Steel Panther. The Cinderella, Winger, and Bulletboys show I attended back in the day comes in second.
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I know nothing at all about Steel Panther, but a buddy of mine tagged along with a coworker to a recent Steel Panther concert... I don't know what happened there, but he came back angry and uncomfortable and has no desire to ever see them again.
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I know nothing at all about Steel Panther, but a buddy of mine tagged along with a coworker to a recent Steel Panther concert... I don't know what happened there, but he came back angry and uncomfortable and has no desire to ever see them again.
Basically, they take all the "naughty/bad boy" schtick that every glam band in the 80s only hinted at, and then play it WAAAAAYYYYY over the top and inappropriate as a joke. Think of the entire parties, cocaine, and groupies lifestyle and then take off every filter you can think of. It's extremely misogynistic but played off as if it's "just a joke" and not serious. There is some debate over whether that is funny or not.
16 year old me would have said they were my #1 all time favorite band. 53 year old me is telling 16 year old me to shut his pie hole.
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That's the best description of Steel Panther I've ever read. Good job, jammindude. :tup
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Yeah, that's about right.
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I spoke to my buddy today and he pretty much described exactly what was just said. They don't sound like my cup of tea either.
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Ironically these guys write some catchy tunes and their guitarist, Russ Parrish, aka, Satchel, is an absolutely amazing guitarist. He played with Halford in Fight as well as Jeff Pilson's band War and Peace. Saw them live and it was extremely entertaining. If you take away the "Andrew Dice Clay" lyrics, Steel Panther are actually a great band.
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https://blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-promises-rarely-performed-and-never-before-played-songs-on-upcoming-tour
Let's hope that this is for real!
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https://blabbermouth.net/news/queensryches-todd-la-torre-promises-rarely-performed-and-never-before-played-songs-on-upcoming-tour
Let's hope that this is for real!
Does this mean more recent album songs?
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As for QUEENSRźCHE's setlist for the upcoming tour, Todd said: "We're gonna play a nice handful of songs from ['Digital Noise Alliance'] and the last three records. And then I think we're talking about doing some pretty deep cuts that have never been done since the beginning of the band and maybe something that hasn't been done for sure at least maybe since I joined the band. And then you'll have a few staple songs, but I'm pretty sure that this setlist is gonna be really for the diehards that follow everything we do, because you're gonna have a huge chunk of my era with the band being played. If you [think] you're just gonna get a lot of the old stuff that we kind of usually play, a lot of that stuff is not gonna happen on this tour. So I'm looking forward to it."
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As for QUEENSRźCHE's setlist for the upcoming tour, Todd said: "We're gonna play a nice handful of songs from ['Digital Noise Alliance'] and the last three records. And then I think we're talking about doing some pretty deep cuts that have never been done since the beginning of the band and maybe something that hasn't been done for sure at least maybe since I joined the band. And then you'll have a few staple songs, but I'm pretty sure that this setlist is gonna be really for the diehards that follow everything we do, because you're gonna have a huge chunk of my era with the band being played. If you [think] you're just gonna get a lot of the old stuff that we kind of usually play, a lot of that stuff is not gonna happen on this tour. So I'm looking forward to it."
Now that would actually make me consider going to see them.
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I'm definitely up for that and don't even consider myself a diehard. I just want to hear something different.
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My guess:
DNA - 3
The Verdict - 1
Condition Human - 1
Self-Titled - 1
Promised Land - Damaged
Empire - Empire, Silent Lucidity, Jet City Woman
Mindcrime - Eyes of a Stranger, Speak, The Mission
RFO - Surgical Strike
The Warning - Deliverance
EP - Queen of the Reich
There's your 16 song, 80-minute set. Just an off-the-cuff guess. New songs, more from TLT era, some standards, and a few deep cuts that they'll want to do.
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Am I the only one who'd be fine if they skipped Empire, Eyes of a stranger, Queen of the Reich and Jet City Woman? I noticed fans tend to pull out their phones and upload those to YouTube the most, so I'm probably in the minority.
I'd be happier with:
No Sanctuary
Before The Storm
I Dream In Infrared-I forgot this one
The Whisper- doubtful given how high the register is for most of the song.
Neue Regel- Also doubtful because the layering/ backing vocals are difficult live?
None of OMC
The Thin Line- I like the song and pretty sure Todd can reach the lower notes, maybe?
None of PL - Sorry guys!
Saved- Because I think Todd would have a lot of fun singing it and I'd like to hear his version.
You- See above. Also turn up Eddie's mic on this one. :heart
Hit the black- purely for the fun of it and the bands enjoyment.
Spool
Dunno if these count as "deep cuts", I'm sure you guys know better than I if these are rarely played.
P.S. Never, NEVER, Sacred Ground. Burn it! Burn it with fire! :flame:
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Before the Storm would be something since they haven't played it since 1985, I think.
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No Sanctuary would be my pick for a deep cut for sure. The Killing Words would be sweet too.
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I'd love them to do things they haven't done. I've been of the opinion that they should have been focusing on the La Torre era songs from the get-go. I've been saying that their main set should be all newer material, with an encore of classic hits. If you don't promote your new material in your set, it means you don't believe in it. If it's good, fans will embrace it. Many of QR's peers, DT, Fates Warning, etc., all promoted their newer material heavily in their sets. QR doesn't (not since American Solider). Hopefully that changes on QR's next tour.
re: The Whisper - they've played this a lot, particularly 2012-2014.
No Sanctuary - they did it a couple years ago for the tour. I saw it in 2019.
Before the Storm - this would be extremely rare. They haven't done BTS since the Rage for Order tour. Possible though. Deliverance is one that they haven't done either, although I know years ago they rehearsed it.
Saved, etc. - they have ignored all of HITNF, and I doubt they will do any of it.
The Thin Line - not sure La Torre era band has done this. I don't think they have.
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Brian, has Toddryche ever played Deliverance?
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I'd love them to do things they haven't done. I've been of the opinion that they should have been focusing on the La Torre era songs from the get-go. I've been saying that their main set should be all newer material, with an encore of classic hits. If you don't promote your new material in your set, it means you don't believe in it. If it's good, fans will embrace it. Many of QR's peers, DT, Fates Warning, etc., all promoted their newer material heavily in their sets. QR doesn't (not since American Solider). Hopefully that changes on QR's next tour.
:tup That would certainly get me to attend! :metal
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The Thin line is due for a comeback. :tup
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Do any of the current band members care about that song? Legit question.
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Neue Regel- Also doubtful because the layering/ backing vocals are difficult live?
Nah, they've done it before. It works. And if they wanted to use a backing track for some of that, I'd be fine with that.
None of OMC
That's a pretty hot take. Personally, I agree with that. They've played it so much through the years that I'd be fine with it not being represented in the live shows for a long time to come. But I think the vast majority of fans would disagree. I think maybe a decent compromise would be to retire Eyes for awhile and bring in something like I Don't Believe in Love, Breaking the Silence, or The Mission instead.
P.S. Never, NEVER, Sacred Ground. Burn it! Burn it with fire! :flame:
Couldn't agree more. But I don't think we have to worry.
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I'd love them to do things they haven't done. I've been of the opinion that they should have been focusing on the La Torre era songs from the get-go. I've been saying that their main set should be all newer material, with an encore of classic hits. If you don't promote your new material in your set, it means you don't believe in it. If it's good, fans will embrace it. Many of QR's peers, DT, Fates Warning, etc., all promoted their newer material heavily in their sets. QR doesn't (not since American Solider). Hopefully that changes on QR's next tour.
:tup That would certainly get me to attend! :metal
I'd be more than happy to have the bulk be the last four albums.
Sounds like a good compromise to me Bosk. :tup
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Do any of the current band members care about that song? Legit question.
Hmm, I'm actually quite curious about how they choose their set list. Beyond logistics (difficulty to play live etc.) I wonder what would make them absolutely not want to play something? I enjoy The Killing Words but I think that song was particularly personal to Geoff. No idea if that kind of sentimentality plays into the decision making process. Embarrassing lyrics? Relationship change? Why completely avoid HITNF?
:huh:
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Brian, has Toddryche ever played Deliverance?
Nope.
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Do any of the current band members care about that song? Legit question.
Hmm, I'm actually quite curious about how they choose their set list. Beyond logistics (difficulty to play live etc.) I wonder what would make them absolutely not want to play something? I enjoy The Killing Words but I think that song was particularly personal to Geoff. No idea if that kind of sentimentality plays into the decision making process. Embarrassing lyrics? Relationship change? Why completely avoid HITNF?
:huh:
The Thin Line, bosk? I mean, only they know if they care about it or not. I mean, Tate and DeGarmo wrote all the classic lyrics (except for a couple Wilton wrote lyrically), so it's not like the guys are really tied to the song lyric-wise.
Autumn - they made a conscious choice to play the EP-Empire and focus the "new QR" around that. They added PL after fans complained, and now do I Am I and Damaged occasionally. TBH, I remember Todd telling me he didn't even own a copy of HITNF.
Only they can definitively answer how a setlist is constructed, but from what they've said in public, and what I heard several years back when I was around them more, they play the hits a lot because that's what gets the best reaction. That's a tell tale sign of a band that has become a nostalgia act. That's why this latest stuff about them pulling out deep cuts and playing their material with Todd more has me intrigued. I said to them from the get-go they should have played that entire self-titled record when it came out (it was only 35 minutes) and focus on new stuff like the band always had in years past. But they went the casino date and fly-in route instead of slugging it out in clubs in a bus, and with those audiences, the hits are what drives the pay days from the casino promoters who book the gigs.
So this whole new setlist thing in 2023, I will be very happily surprised if it happens that they are doing say six songs from the La Torre era and deep cuts from the other records. I hope so. And I hope no matter the reaction, they stick to it.
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I was more of an industrial dance/goth listener in the 90's. The darker songs are my jam.
I was surprised when I looked up the writing credits for The Thin Line, I expected to see Tate's name given the BDSM theme.
Surprise surprise, all Degarmo...it's always the quiet ones. ;)
Wait no... I was thinking of the whisper. Thin line has 3 writing credits, my bad.
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Brian, has Toddryche ever played Deliverance?
Nope.
This is the set list when I saw them this year at the Peekskill Paramount.
Queen of the Reich, Warning, En Force, NM 156, Breaking the Silence, I Don’t Believe in Love, Man the Machine, Walk in the Shadows, The Whisper, Silent Lucidity, Jet City Woman, Operation: Mindcrime, The Needle Lies, Eyes of a Stranger Encore: Take Hold of the Flame, Screaming in Digital, Empire.
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Do any of the current band members care about that song? Legit question.
Well, Michael did take part in writing it. Why wouldn't they care about it, though? Did they overplay it or something?
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I have nothing to add to this discussion except I saw Queensryche open for Priest in October and it was the LOUDEST band I’ve ever seen live, and I’ve been to nearly 100 shows. My ears were legitimately ringing for four days after the show.
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I have nothing to add to this discussion except I saw Queensryche open for Priest in October and it was the LOUDEST band I’ve ever seen live, and I’ve been to nearly 100 shows. My ears were legitimately ringing for four days after the show.
Queensr˙che or Judas Priest? :hefdaddy
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Queensryche.
…But Priest was pretty damn loud too. When Faulkner and Sneap hit the last chord on “Steeler” the house lights come up while a guitar tech in back hits the volume boost instantly causing my toupee to fly away and testicles to retract. :metal :omg:
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I started wearing earplugs in after a concert in 2011, but I always pull one out at every show for a few seconds just to see how loud it really is - and Priest was insanely loud.
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I started wearing earplugs in after a concert in 2011, but I always pull one out at every show for a few seconds just to see how loud it really is - and Priest was insanely loud.
Same. I ended up leaving mine out at the JP show in San Francisco after determining it wasn't very loud.
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Spun OM last night. Probably been 15 years since I last did so.
Totally deserving of all the accolades. It's a genuine masterpiece. Greatness from beginning to end.
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We need a proper live album from this lineup ASAP.
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Revisiting Digital Noise Alliance to finalise last year's Top10 and gotta say after a couple months away from it this record is even better than first time around.
Thought The Verdict was their strongest since way back but DNA is IMO the better of the two. Easily the best of the Todd era and possibly the best Queensryche record since the bands heyday.
Nothing not to like have even warmed to Forest but faves would be Tormentum Lost In Sorrow Chapters Realms and Sicdeth :metal
Yep and grabbed the vinyl too \m/
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Revisiting Digital Noise Alliance to finalise last year's Top10 and gotta say after a couple months away from it this record is even better than first time around. Thought The Verdict was their strongest since way back but DNA is IMO the better of the two. Easily the best of the Todd era and probably the best Queensryche record since the bands heyday.
Nothing not to like have even warmed to Forest but faves would be Tormentum Lost In Sorrow Chapters Realms and Sicdeth :metal
For me, it's because Casey is finally contributing to the recording and it really shows. This is the album that made me interested in the band again.
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Yep. Still spinning almost every day. Personally I love every song with Forest and the cover tune skipped occasionally. For me this is on par with their run of greatness...and this album has prompted me to dig back into their discography and rediscover how much I loved them back then.
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Geoff did pretty good on The Whisper last year. It was probably tuned down, but he was still in the upper register.
https://youtu.be/pg8pFNTKAg8
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(https://i.imgur.com/q9VGdtQ.jpg)
Vinyl arrived and just loving this one that bit more because of it! :metal
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Yep. Still spinning almost every day. Personally I love every song with Forest and the cover tune skipped occasionally. For me this is on par with their run of greatness...
Completely agree. I skip those two as well, but the rest :metal
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I somewhat despised Forest when it was released as a single but gotta say whether spinning the plastic or playing the album loud in car that song has connected with me big time! Likewise with my least fave rocker on the album Hold On. While it remains my least liked it has certainly grown on me.
Nothing I need skip on DNA which I believe says it all ;) :metal
ETA About my only complaint is I wish Todd would use less high register and work at bringing more lows. more warmth and depth more often. Small gripe as there's no doubt Todd has the range, but I want more erm, bottom end ;D
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Forest and On Hold are still my least favorite songs on the album. But I think the rest of it is very strong. Looking forward to hearing some of these songs love. And hopefully some from The Verdict as well, which is my favorite Todd era album.
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I'm really looking forward to seeing whether or not QR does in fact really focus on the TLT era. I mean, they basically always do 80-minute, 16-song sets for headline shows. My expectation for this "new setlist" will be EIGHT songs from the four TLT albums (3 from DNA, 1 from The Verdict, 2 from Condition Human, 2 from self-titled), and then eight from the classic period. Of which FOUR, will be classics (Queen of the Reich, Silent Lucidity, Eyes of a Stranger, Empire), and four, I hope, are deeper cuts. Stuff like Deliverance, Blinded, Child of Fire, London, etc. Given what they have said, as a fan, this is what I expect from such an announcement.
What I think is more likely, is that we'll get five songs from the TLT era, two deep cuts, and the remaining nine tracks will be the hits. I sincerely hope that is wrong, and that my above expectation is more along the lines of what folks get. For me, I wasn't planning on seeing them this go-around. But if they end up really putting their money where their mouths are, and playing a TLT-era-heavy set, I'll grab a ticket and check it out.
Frankly, I thought after they released the self-titled album in 2013, that they should really focus on the TLT era, and showcase that album...a new start for the band, and pepper it with the metal hits (Queen, Walk, Warning, NM 156, etc.) and some of the standards like Jet City, Lucidity, Eyes, etc. Basically to rebuild the band's reputation as a metal act. But instead, they went full-on Greatest Hits from 1983-1990 for the years that followed, playing a couple of new tracks, and sliding in a couple PL songs. Basically pandering to the casino crowd. I've always felt that was a mistake. I know it's hard for them to balance a set, given what they are trying to achieve (meeting the expectations of both hardcores and the whole crowd who wants the Empire/MC hits). But by leaning toward nostalgia, I always felt they lost any semblance of relevancy, particularly as I watched bands like Fates Warning, Dream Theater, etc., all focus on their new material.
So fingers crossed they actually do what they said they are going to do, and stick to it. I'm not as high on DNA as some of you are. After another listen, I do think it's a decent album, but I also think the songs are very much "let's try this and throw it at the wall." Very inconsistent from a stylistic standpoint. A lot of blending of styles and approaches. I feel like it is an album of a whole bunch of singular tracks that try different things instead of being focused work of progression. I may not be describing that well. All the classic records had this "sound" to them that was distinct. All the songs from each record really fit with one another, style-wise. DNA is the opposite. It's a bunch of songs (some very good), all very different. At least to my ears. Glad people dig it. I hope they play a good chunk of it at the shows.
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I agree Samsara; at least on how they've handled their live shows. I totally think they should have focused on the new stuff and they could have supplemented it with nostalgia tours in between. I don't even think of DT doing I&W and Scenes as nostalgia tours because they were at the same time being so active with their new material. QR could have done that and everyone's happy.
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Well being so far abroad I don't really get as invested in the live shows (that said if they come Down Under again in the near future I'm there!) but what you say makes sense here's hoping they deliver for folks.
For the most part I tend to agree with you Brian but so far as DNA goes I'm loving the deviations and songs outside the box kinda approach in fact it reminds me very much of Empire in that after Mindcrime they wanted to get away from the concept idea and do a song oriented album.
Honestly finding this one hard to stop listening to. I think DNA is some of the strongest material stamped Queensryche since their heyday and have no qualms with the various song directions.
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Queensryche is coming around my neck of the woods and I'm debating going. How good of a live band are they? Tickets look like they are $45 and I would consider myself a casual fan best, I haven't heard anything from the TLT era.
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Queensryche is coming around my neck of the woods and I'm debating going. How good of a live band are they? Tickets look like they are $45 and I would consider myself a casual fan best, I haven't heard anything from the TLT era.
They are definitely worth seeing live, especially if (as Samsara has noted) they will be playing more recent material. Either way, it's a really good show! I've seen them twice in the last 4 years and will be going when they are in NC for this tour too.
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Are you going to the Charlotte show? I live in Charlotte and that was the show I was going to see.
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Are you going to the Charlotte show? I live in Charlotte and that was the show I was going to see.
Yes. I saw them at Amos Southend in 2018 (?) when Scott was still in the band and it was a great show. The underground is a great venue at the Music Factory so I'm excited to see them there as well.
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Queensryche is coming around my neck of the woods and I'm debating going. How good of a live band are they? Tickets look like they are $45 and I would consider myself a casual fan best, I haven't heard anything from the TLT era.
The band has said that they plan on featuring more of the TLT era on this headlining tour. That being said, they are definitely good live and sound fantastic. I've recommended that people see Todd at least once, even when I tired of seeing the band live over the last 10 years.
The show I saw from them this past fall was pretty low-energy. Todd was the only one that really moved around on stage, which affected how I felt about the overall show.
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Queensryche is coming around my neck of the woods and I'm debating going. How good of a live band are they? Tickets look like they are $45 and I would consider myself a casual fan best, I haven't heard anything from the TLT era.
The band has said that they plan on featuring more of the TLT era on this headlining tour. That being said, they are definitely good live and sound fantastic. I've recommended that people see Todd at least once, even when I tired of seeing the band live over the last 10 years.
The show I saw from them this past fall was pretty low-energy. Todd was the only one that really moved around on stage, which affected how I felt about the overall show.
Did the rest of band ever move around much? I saw them on the Q2K tour and the co-headlining tour with DT, and it was basically just Geoff doing much of anything. DeGarmo looked like more of a showman from the videos, I've seen.
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Well, remember, the stages are smaller. Not a ton of room. Where they play by me, they really can't move. LOL. And when they have big stages, remember their age. Not everyone can be Iron Maiden. ha ha. Musicians moving around on stage never really mattered much to me. When they are playing arenas, sure, then it is expected if they are the headliner. But small clubs and even theaters? Tough to move a ton.
Wilton and Stone move up to play solos together, Ed stands back and then up to sing, etc. To be honest, that's as much as I think can be expected by anyone with a small stage. Especially at their age.
If you haven't seen QR, I mean, it's worth it to see them once. But I think most people will say, while it's good, I mean, their peak of Empire/PL in terms of a SHOW was where it was at. Tough to compete with that original lineup, and those venues and big productions QR had back then.
I enjoyed QR the last time I saw them (2021 in Snoqualmie, Wash.)
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For me it's not that important if the musicians move around the stage. But you have to make the impression that you enjoy the show and have fun if you play in front of an (paying) audience. And you can do that in a lot of ways.
Not saying the QR guys don't do it, I'm more generally speaking.
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I fully agree about the need to play new songs, although I get and am fine with them not going quite as far as what Samsara posted. I don't expect them to go full-on with "new" material if they feel they need to lean heavily on the classics to sell tickets. But they certainly could have a better balance.
There are certainly bands of that era where the fans don't really care about new material at all and are just looking for a shot of nostalgia. For those bands, a new album is just an excuse to tour. I think Queensryche has a lot of those types of fans. But they also have fans that DO care about the new material. And the band has been putting out new material that tends to range from decent to REALLY good on every single album, so they really should be proud of the new material and want to represent it.
I would hope for something close to what Samsara posted above for this tour, given the comments from the band. But otherwise, I think a reasonable middle ground would be something like: 4 songs from the latest album, 2 from other TLT albums, 2 Tate-era deep cuts, and 8 "classics"/hits. That's plenty balanced to keep everyone happy.
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Well, remember, the stages are smaller. Not a ton of room. Where they play by me, they really can't move. LOL. And when they have big stages, remember their age. Not everyone can be Iron Maiden. ha ha. Musicians moving around on stage never really mattered much to me. When they are playing arenas, sure, then it is expected if they are the headliner. But small clubs and even theaters? Tough to move a ton.
Wilton and Stone move up to play solos together, Ed stands back and then up to sing, etc. To be honest, that's as much as I think can be expected by anyone with a small stage. Especially at their age.
If you haven't seen QR, I mean, it's worth it to see them once. But I think most people will say, while it's good, I mean, their peak of Empire/PL in terms of a SHOW was where it was at. Tough to compete with that original lineup, and those venues and big productions QR had back then.
I enjoyed QR the last time I saw them (2021 in Snoqualmie, Wash.)
I agree with all of this, but I don't make excuses for the size of the stage. I've seen bands go bonkers on a small club stage. QR was in a theater, and while they were performing in front of a backdrop that hid Priest's production and staging, they still had tons of room to move around more than they did - but you're correct in that they did come to the front or center for spots, just never crossed over. Despite my criticism, I did enjoy the show and thought that they sounded really good.
For me it's not that important if the musicians move around the stage. But you have to make the impression that you enjoy the show and have fun if you play in front of an (paying) audience. And you can do that in a lot of ways.
Not saying the QR guys don't do it, I'm more generally speaking.
I also agree with this, and that's more in line with what I was getting at. The band just acted tired, but that's nothing new - those criticisms have been floating around for the last 5+ years.
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ETA About my only complaint is I wish Todd would use less high register and work at bringing more lows. more warmth and depth more often. Small gripe as there's no doubt Todd has the range, but I want more erm, bottom end ;D
Like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0amRbb66IQ (killing words) I came across this while I was looking for cruise footage. I could have just done a search for the song but I usually stick to the most recent live stuff. I prefer to know what the band looks like now rather than 6 years ago. Apparently this was in rotation back in 2016. here's another version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGgegH73SAk
Good job Toddy! :tup
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ETA About my only complaint is I wish Todd would use less high register and work at bringing more lows. more warmth and depth more often. Small gripe as there's no doubt Todd has the range, but I want more erm, bottom end ;D
Like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0amRbb66IQ (killing words) I came across this while I was looking for cruise footage. I could have just done a search for the song but I usually stick to the most recent live stuff. I prefer to know what the band looks like now rather than 6 years ago. Apparently this was in rotation back in 2016. here's another version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGgegH73SAk
Good job Toddy! :tup
Hell yes! :metal
I remember falling in love with the vocals and this band well before ever heard Tate singing his incredible highs from back in the day so yes those lows are what I want hear more of from Todd please and thankyou :biggrin:
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Chris Degarmo is contributing to a new book (photo book?) from Ross Halfin:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/new-queensryche-book-to-include-contributions-from-original-guitarist-chris-degarmo
Legendary rock photographer Ross Halfin has revealed that he is working on QUEENSRźCHE book celebrating the band's classic "Operation: Mindcrime" and "Empire" albums and related touring activities. In a post on his official web site, Ross wrote: "For the first time in 27 years, sat down with [original QUEENSRźCHE guitarist] Mr Chris DeGarmo - which was very odd as to me it seemed like I'd seen him a week ago. It was so good to see him."
According to Ross, Chris — who reportedly makes his living as a private jet pilot — took the photographer for a ride in his "beta test model Tesla, and I said 'why do you like this car?' and he put his foot down," Halfin recalled. "It felt like we'd just taken off in a rocket, I was absolutely terrified. He stopped the car at the next traffic light and said 'Are you okay?' - I said 'Please don't do that again' - he said 'Ross - we were only going 22 miles per hour'."
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Maybe helping curate the photos? Or sharing items from his personal archive? Will be cool to check out, I follow Ross on instagram and he always does great photography.
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Chris Degarmo is contributing to a new book (photo book?) from Ross Halfin:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/new-queensryche-book-to-include-contributions-from-original-guitarist-chris-degarmo
Legendary rock photographer Ross Halfin has revealed that he is working on QUEENSRźCHE book celebrating the band's classic "Operation: Mindcrime" and "Empire" albums and related touring activities. In a post on his official web site, Ross wrote: "For the first time in 27 years, sat down with [original QUEENSRźCHE guitarist] Mr Chris DeGarmo - which was very odd as to me it seemed like I'd seen him a week ago. It was so good to see him."
According to Ross, Chris — who reportedly makes his living as a private jet pilot — took the photographer for a ride in his "beta test model Tesla, and I said 'why do you like this car?' and he put his foot down," Halfin recalled. "It felt like we'd just taken off in a rocket, I was absolutely terrified. He stopped the car at the next traffic light and said 'Are you okay?' - I said 'Please don't do that again' - he said 'Ross - we were only going 22 miles per hour'."
This is great news! Can't wait to pick it up!
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Didn't see this posted already?
REALMS has just been released as another single/video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAYhVeBmaqc
Taking nothing away from this as it's another fave and the video is great but am surprised with all the online chatter and commentary they didn't finally decide to go with Lost In Sorrow as it seems to get heaps of love in reviews and online commentary and whatnot!?
Anyway love all the promo they've given this one and pleased regardless as still digging the shit outta this record \m/
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https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/queensryche/2023/the-plaza-theatre-orlando-fl-33ba30a1.html
Well, at least 5 new songs out of 12. But it was just 1 hour show?
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Maybe some songs are missing from the setlist. I was on the fence about seeing them but if the show is that short it's going to be an easy pass.
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I see 8 songs from the Todd era, plus some more rarer songs from them, for a total of 18 songs.
Deliverance
Child of Fire
Roads to Madness (!)
Spreading the Disease
I actually really like that setlist and the show in Milwaukee is much more on my radar now. I just hope it doesn't change as the tour goes on - I recall that when they did a headline tour for The Verdict, the newer songs started being dropped one by one until they were down to about 13-15 songs.
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I see 8 songs from the Todd era, plus some more rarer songs from them, for a total of 18 songs.
Deliverance
Child of Fire
Roads to Madness (!)
Spreading the Disease
I actually really like that setlist and the show in Milwaukee is much more on my radar now. I just hope it doesn't change as the tour goes on - I recall that when they did a headline tour for The Verdict, the newer songs started being dropped one by one until they were down to about 13-15 songs.
It seems like they updated the setlist, now is much better!!
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That's one fine set list that I would not mind seeing. :tup
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Deliverance!! :omg: :metal :metal
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Anyone know how long of a set they are playing this time around?
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Someone just posted on their FB they played 90min set
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Awesome. I may have to catch one of these shows.
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The setlist is indeed accurate, and it's really a great one. Pretty happy the band finally extended things out to 18 songs and 90+ minutes. A huge focus on the new material, and having "Deliverance" played for the first time since...February 14, 1987, is an absolute monster of a setlist addition. Huge thumbs up to Queensryche for finally showcasing who they NOW are as a band, and putting in a couple of songs for the hardcores to also appreciate. Really outstanding.
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Decent selection of tunes from The Warning. Kind of surprised they didn't pull anything from RFO, and only 3 songs from Mindcrime! Still, that's a solid set list and glad to see them mixing it up!
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I went through YouTube on lunch, I just saw and listened to "Roads to Madness" from Orlando. What I really want to hear/see is "Deliverance."
Looking forward to the show. That setlist...is demanding, vocally.
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Well, turns out that I can't make QR's show this week, but if the latest news is any indication, that may be a moot point.
QR has had to cancel three straight shows due to La Torre losing his voice, according to Blabbermouth. Hope he gets better soon. Bands like QR can't afford to outright cancel shows these days. Hope he gets healthy and the rest of the band and crew stays healthy as well.
A shame. It was a great setlist so far.
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I was watching a video of a recent performance and he ran off and took a big hit from a vape device and then ran back out to sing. Wondering if smoking/vaping is taking a toll.
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I was watching a video of a recent performance and he ran off and took a big hit from a vape device and then ran back out to sing. Wondering if smoking/vaping is taking a toll.
Well, he did state last month he was a month without a cig. So he was working on quitting. This time of year, easily can pick up a cold. Whatever it is, hope he gets healthy soon for those going to see them.
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Well, turns out that I can't make QR's show this week, but if the latest news is any indication, that may be a moot point.
QR has had to cancel three straight shows due to La Torre losing his voice, according to Blabbermouth. Hope he gets better soon. Bands like QR can't afford to outright cancel shows these days. Hope he gets healthy and the rest of the band and crew stays healthy as well.
A shame. It was a great setlist so far.
Their social media team posted that they will be back in action tomorrow and that the cancelled dates will be rescheduled. Hopefully he's back in action and close to 100%!
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Looks like they dropped three songs on the last three gigs...
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Yeah. To be expected when the singer is still recovering from whatever it was.
A bummer though. I had to miss the local show. Just too busy and I absolutely hate the venue. I won't say my days seeing QR are over. But I won't travel for them any longer like I used to, and if they continue to play this one particular venue in town, it's an easy pass.
But I wish them health and getting back to that initial setlist.
re: Tate. So I found this clip from three weeks ago when looking for footage for QR from last night. Very...awkward angle, but Tate's still going for Queen of the Reich. It's not "perfect" by any means (confirmation he's using falsetto, not his head voice like back in the day), but dude's 64 and fucking going for it, with a damn camera right in his face. Respect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYCuKo0ABaQ
And dude who was filming, personally, that's not cool. That's too close. No interest in how yellow a singer's teeth are. :lol
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Hello everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster.
Just got home from the QR show at the Neptune Theater in Seattle. I’d seen them with Todd before opening for the Scorpions on their 50th anniversary tour but never as the headliner. They were great. The band was on fire and Todd sounded really good, even on the Empire and Mindcrime stuff that he sometimes doesn’t sound quite right on. Whatever illness knocked him out in TX has passed. Roads to Madness was back in as the closer so it was a 16 song set, the other song in the encore was Deliverance. All of the newer material sounded great live, even Forest, which I liked better live than I did on the record. 7 Todd era songs out of 16 total was a refreshing change. Less nostalgia and more new songs is the way to go as far as I’m concerned. The crowd reaction to the newer material was great as well. Better than I expected actually. When Todd announced that we were going to hear a lot from the last ten years it got a big cheer.
Opening band Trauma was excellent and so was Marty Friedman and his band. His drummer is quite the showman. All in all a great night that exceeded my expectations. Don’t miss this tour if it’s coming your way.
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Setlist looks like it's down to 16 songs permanently though now. It was 18 until he got ill and lost his voice.
Glad he's feeling and sounding better. I was in Seattle when QR was there. Friends who were in attendance said he could hit the high stuff, but struggled with mid-range. So who knows? But the set is back to just 16 tunes, so obviously they felt it wise to keep it on the short side moving forward.
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Matt Barlow joins Queensryche to perform "Queen of the Reich" last night in Baltimore:
https://youtu.be/ZyOEFzyzPso?t=275
Pretty damn cool. That high end hitting the chorus. Song probably needs to be down a half-step for him, but that voice doing the high stuff. :hefdaddy
Cool treat for those in Maryland last night.
:metal
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Matt Barlow joins Queensryche to perform "Queen of the Reich" last night in Baltimore:
https://youtu.be/ZyOEFzyzPso?t=275
Pretty damn cool. That high end hitting the chorus. Song probably needs to be down a half-step for him, but that voice doing the high stuff. :hefdaddy
Cool treat for those in Maryland last night.
:metal
Shouldn't Queensryche have been in quotes above instead of Queen of the Reich? :P
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I thought it was awesome. :metal :metal :metal High notes gallore!
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That's a great guest to have come out and suprise the audience. Nice performance as well. :tup
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great high note at the start by Matt
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I've been listening to The Warning a lot this week and using the original running order, which I think makes it better. The title track is merely solid and works a lot better in the 8th spot rather than the 1st, and the album starting with as NM 156 instead means it hits the ground running. And, miracles of all miracles, Roads to Madness is finally starting to land pretty well for me. :metal :metal
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I've been listening to The Warning a lot this week and using the original running order, which I think makes it better. The title track is merely solid and works a lot better in the 8th spot rather than the 1st, and the album starting with as NM 156 instead means it hits the ground running. And, miracles of all miracles, Roads to Madness is finally starting to land pretty well for me. :metal :metal
Warning is a GREAT album, and Roads To Madness is easily my favorite Queensryche song.
I've never bothered to reorder it. Honestly, I can't see the album having any greater value to me than it already does, and after 40 years, I'm too used to the order as it is.
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I've been listening to The Warning a lot this week and using the original running order, which I think makes it better. The title track is merely solid and works a lot better in the 8th spot rather than the 1st, and the album starting with as NM 156 instead means it hits the ground running. And, miracles of all miracles, Roads to Madness is finally starting to land pretty well for me. :metal :metal
Warning is a GREAT album, and Roads To Madness is easily my favorite Queensryche song.
I've never bothered to reorder it. Honestly, I can't see the album having any greater value to me than it already does, and after 40 years, I'm too used to the order as it is.
I get that, but even though I have had it since the mid 90s, it has never been an album I listened to with any regularity until the last few years, so the running order of the official release is not as ingrained in my head, so making the switch was easy for me.
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I've been listening to The Warning a lot this week and using the original running order, which I think makes it better. The title track is merely solid and works a lot better in the 8th spot rather than the 1st, and the album starting with as NM 156 instead means it hits the ground running. And, miracles of all miracles, Roads to Madness is finally starting to land pretty well for me. :metal :metal
The original order makes all the difference in the world. The flow of that record the way the band intended is absolutely stunning and elevates the whole album. And then the theme of the record comes to life too, with the circular presentation (essentially, the world's issues continually repeat themselves, just as Roads to Madness ends, NM 156 picks back up starting on the same note Roads ends on).
Old fogeys like Tim - I understand. I do. You live with something so long, it's hard to really change it. Typically, being an old fogey myself, I would agree. But this is one case where it makes all the sense in the world, and man, The Warning (in the original order) vaulted to my second favorite QR record after Mindcrime. Just killer. Funny how a track order can do that.
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What's the original running order of The Warning?
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What's the original running order of The Warning?
NM 156
En Force
No Sanctuary
Deliverance
Take Hold of the Flame
Before the Storm
Child of Fire
Warning
Roads to Madness
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I've been listening to The Warning a lot this week and using the original running order, which I think makes it better. The title track is merely solid and works a lot better in the 8th spot rather than the 1st, and the album starting with as NM 156 instead means it hits the ground running. And, miracles of all miracles, Roads to Madness is finally starting to land pretty well for me. :metal :metal
The original order makes all the difference in the world. The flow of that record the way the band intended is absolutely stunning and elevates the whole album. And then the theme of the record comes to life too, with the circular presentation (essentially, the world's issues continually repeat themselves, just as Roads to Madness ends, NM 156 picks back up starting on the same note Roads ends on).
Very nice! For me, the original running order means my two favorite songs from it are tracks 1 and 2, and with Roads to Madness finally hitting me in that sweet spot, that means the album both starts and ends very strong. A strong start and finish are both often in the recipe for making a great record. :hat :hat
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What's the original running order of The Warning?
NM 156
En Force
No Sanctuary
Deliverance
Take Hold of the Flame
Before the Storm
Child of Fire
Warning
Roads to Madness
I don't get how swapping a couple of songs around would make such a difference in the enjoyment of an album. I know Kev explained but just seems interesting to me.
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What's the original running order of The Warning?
NM 156
En Force
No Sanctuary
Deliverance
Take Hold of the Flame
Before the Storm
Child of Fire
Warning
Roads to Madness
I don't get how swapping a couple of songs around would make such a difference in the enjoyment of an album. I know Kev explained but just seems interesting to me.
More and more, the music industry is getting back into the mindset of an album as simply a collection of songs (if they do “albums” at all anymore). But anyone who has ever made a mixtape/CD knows that there is a “flow” to an album if it’s done right. Emotional “tension and release”. It’s like a symphony or a good film. Interrupting the intended flow of an album can greatly disrupt its emotional impact.
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What's the original running order of The Warning?
NM 156
En Force
No Sanctuary
Deliverance
Take Hold of the Flame
Before the Storm
Child of Fire
Warning
Roads to Madness
I don't get how swapping a couple of songs around would make such a difference in the enjoyment of an album. I know Kev explained but just seems interesting to me.
When you fall in love with an album the sequence becomes a part of it, its not all about the songs themselves but the way the end of a song sets you up with the beginning of the next. Moving a few songs around changes the overall experience of that album. We didn't have a shuffle option back in those days, only side A and B or 1 and 2, so the song order we got used to represented it. I personally would be prepared for air drums of a certain song as the last one was ending. If that makes any sense.
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I totally get all that, but the order of albums is what's given to us, which you alluded to Tom. Unless we go out of our way to make it different, we don't know any different. I guess this one is a little different plus Kev not really liking the album in the first place.
What's the exact story behind the tracklist then? Was there ever a release with the different tracklist?
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Wait, I never said I didn't like the album in the first place. I always liked it. I just like it a bit more now with the tweaked running order. Yeah, it is cheating, but I can listen to the songs in any order I want. :biggrin:
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The band intended the tracklist as the one Brian posted. To me, that outs the three weakest songs all in a row.
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Wait, I never said I didn't like the album in the first place. I always liked it. I just like it a bit more now with the tweaked running order. Yeah, it is cheating, but I can listen to the songs in any order I want. :biggrin:
Ah sorry mate. That makes it more interesting to me then. :lol
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The band intended the tracklist as the one Brian posted. To me, that outs the three weakest songs all in a row.
Why didn't that stick then?
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The band intended the tracklist as the one Brian posted. To me, that outs the three weakest songs all in a row.
Why didn't that stick then?
Record company interference.
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I've never heard any other version besides the cd that I bought. The Warning to start things off is what I know, but NM156 would be an amazing opener.
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I've never heard any other version besides the cd that I bought. The Warning to start things off is what I know, but NM156 would be an amazing opener.
NM156 would be amazing in any spot on the album.
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Yeah that song is outstanding.
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Wait, I never said I didn't like the album in the first place. I always liked it. I just like it a bit more now with the tweaked running order. Yeah, it is cheating, but I can listen to the songs in any order I want. :biggrin:
Ah sorry mate. That makes it more interesting to me then. :lol
Haha, all good. I am a believer that a really good first and last song are both pretty essential to an album being really good (although there are certainly exceptions), so the alternate running order results in a great song being in the first slot instead of merely a solid one, IMO.
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The band intended the tracklist as the one Brian posted. To me, that outs the three weakest songs all in a row.
Why didn't that stick then?
Record company interference.
Interesting.
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Wait, I never said I didn't like the album in the first place. I always liked it. I just like it a bit more now with the tweaked running order. Yeah, it is cheating, but I can listen to the songs in any order I want. :biggrin:
Ah sorry mate. That makes it more interesting to me then. :lol
Haha, all good. I am a believer that a really good first and last song are both pretty essential to an album being really good (although there are certainly exceptions), so the alternate running order results in a great song being in the first slot instead of merely a solid one, IMO.
I can get on board with that. Never had an issue with the title track myself so I guess that's why I do find it interesting.
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Always thought En Force was a kick ass tune.
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Bottom line is a good album is a good album no matter what order you play the tunes. I was taking a trip down memory lane when my friends and I would do a full album air band so hard that we would make the needle skip on the turntable. :metal
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Always thought En Force was a kick ass tune.
That's because it IS a kick ass tune. :coolio :coolio
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First, I wish I'd have been at that Baltimore show, but I have no desire any more to be downtown at night (except for the upcoming Queen+AL show)
Track listings on LPs: had a friend record Deep Purple's 'Perfect Strangers' for me on cassette when the album first came out (with 'Machine Head' on the other side). Well...he recorded Side Two first. It wasn't until a decade later when I bought the CD that I heard the correct order, and it sure threw me for a loop.
I didn't buy it, but Queen's 'A Night at the Opera' cassette had 'Good Company' and 'Seaside Rendezvoux' switching places. :facepalm: That throws both sides out of whack. Feel sorry for those who purchased it.
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More and more, the music industry is getting back into the mindset of an album as simply a collection of songs (if they do “albums” at all anymore). But anyone who has ever made a mixtape/CD knows that there is a “flow” to an album if it’s done right. Emotional “tension and release”. It’s like a symphony or a good film. Interrupting the intended flow of an album can greatly disrupt its emotional impact.
Bingo, JD. And I've noticed that too...the world is becoming like it was in the 50s...more single-oriented. For me, an album is exactly as you described. It's an experience that IMO, very good artists take a lot of time to work on, like QR did with The Warning before the label F'd them.
What's the exact story behind the tracklist then? Was there ever a release with the different tracklist?
Here's what happened. The band submitted the album with an approved track order (what I posted) and a mix done by James Guthrie that was more to their liking (guitars higher in mix). Once they submitted it, then went to Japan to tour. When they got home, they were told that EMI changed the track list to feature the single, "Warning," first. And they also had Val Garay remix the record so it was more in-line with the sound that was popular at the time (drums more up front, guitars dialed back, vocals way up front). The band were absolutely devastated. I recently interviewed Dave Morris, who was the band's first guitar tech and crew member. He reiterated to me how absolutely crushed and upset all five of the band members were when that happened. They couldn't fight it, it was their first record for EMI, and they had to just "move on," but it was really painful for all of them to have their work modified the way it was. They literally compartmentalized it and let it go, because they were so mad and couldn't/didn't want to revisit it.
Wait, I never said I didn't like the album in the first place. I always liked it. I just like it a bit more now with the tweaked running order. Yeah, it is cheating, but I can listen to the songs in any order I want. :biggrin:
Not cheating at all. It's what the band intended us to hear. And after doing so, that album makes a lot more sense. It's an experience, as opposed to just songs on a record. Which was what Queensr˙che wanted. It's also why Guthrie was at the helm of the record (Pink Floyd). Album experiences. Just such a shame.
One of the cooler things I have is a CD that has The Warning in the originally intended order that has been re-equalized by a very capable sound engineer (not just me and you screwing with an EQ), to try and bring up the guitars, lower the drums, get some of the hiss out, etc. It sounds great. The difference is probably minor to most people, but when I A/B'd the versions, you can absolutely tell a difference.
Given what Dave Morris said to me, I highly doubt QR (or Capitol Records who I assume still own the rights to the record) will ever have that recorded probably sequenced and mixed back to something like they intended. All the band guys still have their original net final mix cassettes that they approved before heading to Japan. So the mix exists. But given that those are on cassette tapes, I hope they all digitized them. If they were to ever have the album remixed, they'd have to start from scratch, and use those tapes as a guide. And at this point, I don't see them ever bothering.
Those of you who are just comfortable with the original order, try the intended track order, and then read along with the lyrics. It's a conceptual album, and the track order makes a big difference in realizing that concept.
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Always thought En Force was a kick ass tune.
That's because it IS a kick ass tune. :coolio :coolio
On a kick ass album no less. :2metal:
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I can understand the frustration of the band, but I still think opening the record with Warning is a better choice than opening it with NM 256. The latter is the best song on the album imo but it was also the one that took the longest to sink in, to really appreciate its greatness. It's the most ununsual song on The Warning and opening the record with it might throw the listener, that is new to the band, off.
As it is, it opens with a nice song, sets the tone and mood and from then on, it only gets better.
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I can understand the frustration of the band, but I still think opening the record with Warning is a better choice than opening it with NM 256. The latter is the best song on the album imo but it was also the one that took the longest to sink in, to really appreciate its greatness. It's the most ununsual song on The Warning and opening the record with it might throw the listener, that is new to the band, off.
As it is, it opens with a nice song, sets the tone and mood and from then on, it only gets better.
All personal taste. I was just giving the explanation as to what was intended and why.
Personally, I think "Warning" is one of the more pedestrian songs on The Warning, along with "Before the Storm." Both of those are filler to me, in comparison to the other seven tracks. They work better, particularly "Warning," nestled between Child of Fire and Roads to Madness. A prelude to the coming end (or shall we say beginning?).
Next year it is 40 years old. Crazy to think of that.
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I can understand the frustration of the band, but I still think opening the record with Warning is a better choice than opening it with NM 256. The latter is the best song on the album imo but it was also the one that took the longest to sink in, to really appreciate its greatness. It's the most ununsual song on The Warning and opening the record with it might throw the listener, that is new to the band, off.
As it is, it opens with a nice song, sets the tone and mood and from then on, it only gets better.
I agree i think the label did the right thing WARNING really grabs you to start the album and sets the tone of the "concept" being loosely woven..again I must have worn out 3 LP copies as kid and have 3 or more copies of the CD so its burned into me, that said I dont listen to it very often now and I cant see the band at that time being so young and surrounded by such great producers and label people having much of an issue with song order, Im sure they were just thrilled to make that album as it was their first., did the band ever speak on this subject of song order?
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EV,
Many times. And they've said each time that it was altered and they weren't happy about it. Their manager at the time wasn't happy about it either. Neither was James Guthrie, who thought they made an amazing album.
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I first heard Queen of the Reich on the radio around 1983? Didn't get my first QR album until RFO. That's when I discovered The Warning and of course the remainder of the EP. The rest is history as they say. I think Warning was a good single to start the album just like Walk in the Shadows was for RFO. Something catchy and not as complicated to start an album has always been a good marketing strategy for any band.
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Yeah, from a single standpoint, I totally understand what the label did and why. I get it totally.
But it really ruined the flow of a themeatic, semi-conceptual debut album that all of band spent a lot of time on.
Either way, great record. Could use a remix (imagine an expanded high fidelity mix ala 5.1 or 7.1 or whatever they do these days - Atmos?)
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EV,
Many times. And they've said each time that it was altered and they weren't happy about it. Their manager at the time wasn't happy about it either. Neither was James Guthrie, who thought they made an amazing album.
:tup as I get older the ole mind aint retaining what it used to LOL
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Mindcrime is 35 years old, released in May 1988.
It hasn't aged one bit and in many respects, compared to most modern metal albums, sounds even better.
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Mindcrime is 35 years old, released in May 1988.
It hasn't aged one bit and in many respects, compared to most modern metal albums, sounds even better.
And still sounds better produced and mixed than most albums out there.
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I still somewhat vividly remember the first time I heard O:M. Must have been between 1997 and 2000, he had given me a tape that was supposed to be Savatage's Edge of Thorns since I loved Hall of the Mountain King and he told me that they have changed vocalists for this one. I was immediately blown away and even though I had almost no English knowledge at the time I was looking at the track titles (handwritten) and knew something was up but didn't think much of it.
So for a week or so I was screaming along thinking this is probably Savatage's best album and I was so impressed that the same band that wrote Hall of the Mountain King can be so creative as to make something so different yet even better. And where the heck did they find this guy on the mic lol.
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Mindcrime is 35 years old, released in May 1988.
It hasn't aged one bit and in many respects, compared to most modern metal albums, sounds even better.
My favorite album of all time. And nope, doesn't sound like it is from a certain era, sound-wise. My wife and I were laughing the other day saying how the title track is our least favorite on Operation: Mindcrime, but still blows away most music. Just such a gem front to back.
I first heard Mindcrime right when it was released (within a week or so). I was so excited, since I had discovered Queensryche with Rage for Order in Fall '87. Good times.
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Mindcrime is 35 years old, released in May 1988.
It hasn't aged one bit and in many respects, compared to most modern metal albums, sounds even better.
My favorite album of all time. And nope, doesn't sound like it is from a certain era, sound-wise. My wife and I were laughing the other day saying how the title track is our least favorite on Operation: Mindcrime, but still blows away most music. Just such a gem front to back.
I first heard Mindcrime right when it was released (within a week or so). I was so excited, since I had discovered Queensryche with Rage for Order in Fall '87. Good times.
Man, what an amazing thing to have discovered that in real time. That happened a few years later for me (5, if I remember correctly). An absolute masterpiece of an album. Such a rare thing for a concept, where the whole album is incredibly compelling as a story PLUS every single song is absolutely killer as a standalone piece (yes, the interludes too! :))
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See, I don't see Mindcrime as being an album that doesn't sound of an era. The mix and production is very 80s rock/metal-sounding, and that is a good thing. Of course, I don't subscribe to the narrative that sounding "dated" or of a particular era is a bad thing, so there is that as well.
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Yeah I find Mindcrime very much of its era too but nothing short of a masterpiece regardless. I mean I can listen to a lot of stuff from back when and it doesn't sound dated to my ears that's not my point as is just how I hear it. But if I stop and take note yeah, sure Mindcrime is an 80's recording but just a damn good one \m/
Not sure that makes sense but anyway... ;)
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To me, it's dated only if I happen to watch some of the videos. I don't know what was in the water supply in the 80s, but damn.
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See, I don't see Mindcrime as being an album that doesn't sound of an era. The mix and production is very 80s rock/metal-sounding, and that is a good thing. Of course, I don't subscribe to the narrative that sounding "dated" or of a particular era is a bad thing, so there is that as well.
I'm with you on this. If OM sounded like Empire... well. :eek
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Operation: Mindcrime sounds of its time but it's still a timeless classic.
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TBH, I don't think Mindcrime sounds of its era, mixing/production-wise at all. It very..."crisp" for a non-musical term, but I chalked that up to them doing the entire recorded digitally. Still hard to believe it was 35 years ago. Crazy.
Empire though man...that fucking beast was used to test the acoustics in studios it was so well done. The same team recorded, mixed, and produced it too (Northfield/Barton/Collins) - although if memory serves, Northfield just recorded the song "Empire," and Barton recorded the rest of that record - so it's not surprising. But that record sounds, in terms of sonics, light years different than Mindcrime.
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Operation: Mindcrime sounds of its time but it's still a timeless classic.
One of the best metal albums of all time to this day.
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I've never listened to The Warning with the intended track order before. It's great. :azn:
It's a huge source of frustration to me that it sounds how it does. A full remix and remaster could be utterly amazing. The material and performances are so great. Come on, guys!
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I've never listened to The Warning with the intended track order before. It's great. :azn:
It's a huge source of frustration to me that it sounds how it does. A full remix and remaster could be utterly amazing. The material and performances are so great. Come on, guys!
AMEN, DA. But that sort of project is at the mercy of Capitol Records. And while the 40th of that album is next year, I highly doubt they'll invest the money to do it PROPERLY with the intended track order and a remix. I hope I'm wrong. I expect a vinyl release and new liner notes of the previously remastered 2003 CD, which sounds like garbage. :lol
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Keeping my fingers crossed. The more they do with it, the more units they'll likely shift, right?
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Keeping my fingers crossed. The more they do with it, the more units they'll likely shift, right?
Yes, but there's also the financial impact on the band. It costs more to do more, and the band might not be in a position to put X amount of money into a project like that.
That's why we haven't seen any live album or DVD from Todd's era - he recently said that they've recorded just about every show they've played in the last handful of years, but they haven't taken the time to go through all of those recordings, and if they did - is it even worth doing?
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I no longer comment on QR here but wanted to share this
https://t.co/yx8UCQb5wx
and scotts post on it
if anyone knows how to post this better please do I stink at this stuff
https://scontent.fewr1-6.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347411931_642744627872572_6004109714311137622_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=MaLUnvTG8Y8AX8au_cC&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-6.fna&oh=00_AfD7cjMkmvNdVJpzKFf_mvhzlkfzZ3rhWm4aXLqkE-Zx0A&oe=648558EC
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I dont have a delete button?? Mod can delete please
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I dont have a delete button?? Mod can delete please
(https://scontent.fewr1-6.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347411931_642744627872572_6004109714311137622_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=MaLUnvTG8Y8AX8au_cC&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-6.fna&oh=00_AfD7cjMkmvNdVJpzKFf_mvhzlkfzZ3rhWm4aXLqkE-Zx0A&oe=648558EC)
Here you go. :)
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I dont have a delete button?? Mod can delete please
(https://scontent.fewr1-6.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347411931_642744627872572_6004109714311137622_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=MaLUnvTG8Y8AX8au_cC&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-6.fna&oh=00_AfD7cjMkmvNdVJpzKFf_mvhzlkfzZ3rhWm4aXLqkE-Zx0A&oe=648558EC)
Here you go. :)
Thank you!!!
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I dont have a delete button?? Mod can delete please
(https://scontent.fewr1-6.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347411931_642744627872572_6004109714311137622_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=MaLUnvTG8Y8AX8au_cC&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-6.fna&oh=00_AfD7cjMkmvNdVJpzKFf_mvhzlkfzZ3rhWm4aXLqkE-Zx0A&oe=648558EC)
Here you go. :)
Nothing says "I'm totally sane and rational!" like random use of quotation marks and ellipses.
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His posts come across as ramblings of a man losing his marbles :corn
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I can only chuckle IMO the drama and nonsense is better than any music post Tate for Tate or Toddryche but the drama and this sorta stuff makes them super interesting IMO again MY OPINION ONLY
https://loudwire.com/queensryche-fans-surprised-2023-silent-lucidity-digital-single-release/
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Seems like some record label did something on it's own. If the QR guys didn't know about it beforehand, they are hardly to blame imo.
As it seems to be (at least in part) the Geoff version, maybe he can shed some light?
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Seems like some record label did something on it's own. If the QR guys didn't know about it beforehand, they are hardly to blame imo.
As it seems to be (at least in part) the Geoff version, maybe he can shed some light?
its odd for sure LOL
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The acapella version is cringy. Geoff is a little pitchy in spots. Obviously, this is from the F.U. sessions when he recorded some QR covers, I believe.
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The acapella version is cringy. Geoff is a little pitchy in spots. Obviously, this is from the F.U. sessions when he recorded some QR covers, I believe.
I think the acapella is just an isolated vocal track. not sure if its the FU sessions, did sound like Chris on guitar but IDK : ) but that would make sense IMO
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The acapella version is cringy. Geoff is a little pitchy in spots. Obviously, this is from the F.U. sessions when he recorded some QR covers, I believe.
This. People quickly forgot that Cleopatra signed him for F.U., and one of the things he was required to do was re-record a handful of QR hits for them. Here we are, 10 years later, and BOOM, these come out again. A little cash cow for Cleopatra, because people will just buy it because it says "Queensryche."
Absolute trash re-recordings. Cleopatra knew EXACTLY what they were doing back in 2013.
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So, this is cool. Queensryche is doing a set of old school material (just the EP and The Warning) at Hell's Heroes VI in Houston on March 21-24, 2024.
See flyer here: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=760162836110703&set=a.521632406630415
VERY cool. Love the fact they used the old school EP QR logo for promotion. TBH, Queensryche would be dumb not to play The Warning in its entirety at various points throughout 2024. it's the album's 40th anniversary. I'd actually go to this if it were local for me. Forbidden is doing a set (they are back together), and some great bands on that bill.
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I like that they're doing a special set. They need to do those types of special shows more often.
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Just finished reading Building An Empire and I really enjoyed the book. The trajectory of the band was wild and it seems like they are times were their own worst enemy coupled with bad luck. The book left curious what would've happened had Chris DeGarmo stayed in the band.
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Whenever peeps say QR went to shit while Chris was still in the band with Hear In The Now Frontier anyway I've always said all the big name bands bounced back after releasing subpar albums. I don't see why QR would've been any different if Chris had stayed or remained after Tribe.
Am confident QR would've righted their own ship eventually had Chris somehow managed to stay (hypothetically in a perfect world and all that ;) )
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Whenever peeps say QR went to shit while Chris was still in the band with Hear In The Now Frontier anyway I've always said all the big name bands bounced back after releasing subpar albums. I don't see why QR would've been any different if Chris had stayed or remained after Tribe.
Am confident QR would've righted their own ship eventually had Chris somehow managed to stay (hypothetically in a perfect world and all that ;) )
Sure, I guess we could go with that but are you honestly confident in that hypothetical? It doesn't take into account the splintering relationships in the rest of the band or Geoff's diminished vocals.
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Sure, I guess we could go with that but are you honestly confident in that hypothetical? It doesn't take into account the splintering relationships in the rest of the band or Geoff's diminished vocals.
Tate's singing was still really good, though, even though he wasn't up there in the stratosphere like he had been in the 80s. I like to think that Queensryche was more in their prime than just a bunch of average songwriters that Tate somehow saved with his all-world singing. :)
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I’ve said it a few times before, but it bears repeating here.
QR in their prime was the result of a unique blend of Melody, Metal, and Madness.
DeGarmo was the Melody
Wilton was the Metal
Tate was the Madness
Once DeGarmo left, Tate just managed to mostly cut Wilton out of the picture and we were just left with the lunatics running the asylum.
Now Wilton pretty much runs the show with TLT and they’ve made a halfway decent “Metal” band under the QR moniker, but it will never again have the original and unique blend that it once did.
It’s still really good. Just the hooks aren’t quite as good as when CDG was there, and the “weirdness” factor that Tate brought to the table is gone.
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Whenever peeps say QR went to shit while Chris was still in the band with Hear In The Now Frontier anyway I've always said all the big name bands bounced back after releasing subpar albums. I don't see why QR would've been any different if Chris had stayed or remained after Tribe.
Am confident QR would've righted their own ship eventually had Chris somehow managed to stay (hypothetically in a perfect world and all that ;) )
Sure, I guess we could go with that but are you honestly confident in that hypothetical? It doesn't take into account the splintering relationships in the rest of the band or Geoff's diminished vocals.
Yes. Hypothetically am confident they would've eventually landed where they needed.
It may have taken a few more releases it may have nosedived further too but like jammindude and Kev said, with the sum of their parts and Tate still sounding good enough (in much the same way Alder has with Fates recently), eventually yes absolutely ;D
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I’ve said it a few times before, but it bears repeating here.
QR in their prime was the result of a unique blend of Melody, Metal, and Madness.
DeGarmo was the Melody
Wilton was the Metal
Tate was the Madness
Once DeGarmo left, Tate just managed to mostly cut Wilton out of the picture and we were just left with the lunatics running the asylum.
Now Wilton pretty much runs the show with TLT and they’ve made a halfway decent “Metal” band under the QR moniker, but it will never again have the original and unique blend that it once did.
It’s still really good. Just the hooks aren’t quite as good as when CDG was there, and the “weirdness” factor that Tate brought to the table is gone.
This is a cool breakdown. But I still REALLY like Digital Noise Alliance, one of my favorite metal records of the last few years.
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I’ve said it a few times before, but it bears repeating here.
QR in their prime was the result of a unique blend of Melody, Metal, and Madness.
DeGarmo was the Melody
Wilton was the Metal
Tate was the Madness
Once DeGarmo left, Tate just managed to mostly cut Wilton out of the picture and we were just left with the lunatics running the asylum.
Now Wilton pretty much runs the show with TLT and they’ve made a halfway decent “Metal” band under the QR moniker, but it will never again have the original and unique blend that it once did.
It’s still really good. Just the hooks aren’t quite as good as when CDG was there, and the “weirdness” factor that Tate brought to the table is gone.
This is a cool breakdown. But I still REALLY like Digital Noise Alliance, one of my favorite metal records of the last few years.
Great breakdown and Oh yeah absolutely!
While happily accept the original era of Queensryche through to Promised Land is untouchable, for my money, song for song, DNA is well up there. Front to back fantastic and probably the best thing to bear the Queensryche name since IMO \m/
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Just finished reading Building An Empire and I really enjoyed the book. The trajectory of the band was wild and it seems like they are times were their own worst enemy coupled with bad luck. The book left curious what would've happened had Chris DeGarmo stayed in the band.
Thank you for reading it. The bolded is true, particularly after DeGarmo left. Some very bad decisions, IMO.
As for the bio itself, the writing broke down as follows:
Beach wrote the first draft of the narrative. I went through it, re-wrote sections (for example, the ending of the main narrative - the last several paragraphs - is something I wrote) and in some cases, whole chapters (the F.U. chapter is one I remember re-writing entirely). I added a lot of the detail nuggets about songs, things done live, etc., that you see throughout the book. When it gets very specific, or tells things more in-depth, most likely that is me telling those things and writing those paragraphs. The "cutaway" or "sidebar" sections are authored as we had in the bylines. Generally speaking, Naron was the main researcher on the book (finding things we needed), and wrote little bits here and there. It was a fun project that was both difficult and rewarding at the same time. I'm proud to have worked on it. I actually worked on it much more than I thought I would. Initially, I was just going to write an Afterword and do some minor contributions. But I felt like I needed to step in and take on a bigger role, writing-wise, to get it to a place where I thought it was as accurate and detail-filled as it could be. Really appreciate Beach and Naron giving me that opportunity.
The one thing (only thing, really) we ever disagreed on was the beginning. Ha! I felt like it took way, way too long to get to "The Mob" and "Queensryche." I wanted the detail about all the Northwest metal bands, but there were a lot of long passages that I would have personally cut out (and did, on my initial edit/re-write), but I got outvoted on those changes. It seems like folks are split a bit on the opening. Some very much enjoy the granular detail about the connections between bands of that era in the local scene with the QR guys, and other people feel like it went too in-depth on them, and delayed getting to the "story." But it is what it is, and the three of us are immensely proud of the work we did.
And...watch this space in a couple weeks for a related announcement. I have something to share with folks. Something that many of you will be interested in, if you dug the bio. And that's all I am allowed to say at the moment. ;)
re: original lineup, etc.
JD sums it up nicely, as he always tends to on that description. But in this newer era of QR, Eddie Jackson has very much stepped to the forefront, creatively. So while Wilton and TLT do some steering, a lot of it is built on Eddie's ideas.
As for classic, original lineup QR, yeah, there was a special chemistry between all of them. I felt that the Tribe material that had all five of them involved (Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine, The Art of Life, and Justified) really showed a continuation of the evolution from HITNF, and going in a more "earthy," organic direction. Whereas Q2k and Mindcrime II, AS, DTC, etc., all really feel like "one offs" because of the way the songs were written. There was a very logical evolution and flow while Chris was in the band, that wasn't there at all when he left.
I've seen QR with TLT many times now, including the first two shows as Rising West. They are a solid metal band. Do justice to the catalog. But the band is very, very different than what the original lineup was together. Tate's solo band is also decent and he is sounding okay these days, despite dropping the key significantly. And for me personally, that's all okay. That original lineup of Queensryche is very much on a pedestal as my favorite act of all time. And even HITNF, which many are critical of, is absolutely a Queensryche record, through and through, filled with tons of their sonic hallmarks.
I did a podcast on it with the guys from Focus on Metal last year for HITNF's 25th anniversary, if you're interested in hearing me badly babble and "um" a lot: https://focusonmetalpod.com/queensryche-biographer-brian-heaton-debates-the-merits-of-hear-in-the-now-frontier-on-this-weeks-focus-on-metal/
I make the case why HITNF is a quintessential Queensryche album that folks need to appreciate more. The host, Ritchie, disagrees, and it made for a fun discussion.
Anyway, always happy to see QR discussion here. Thanks again, Reaper, for reading our biography. And like I said, announcement coming in two weeks about something else folks who dug the bio will really (I hope) be excited for. :metal
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That’s a great point about EJ’s involvement. And I hope DNA reflects that (even though I’m deep diving into one or two other things at the moment, my attention to music in general has taken a huge back seat to family drama for the last year, so I haven’t picked it up yet) :-\ …but I do seem to remember that Eye9 was EJ’s baby and was an immediate standout of all the new material because it seemed to be attempting to recapture that “weirdness” factor that made QR stand out from other metal bands. So it seems like EJ “gets” that the strangeness is important to their sound and tries to incorporate that. I hope he has continued to bring that to the table moving forward.
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One week from today...
:coolio
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a new lawsuit?
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a new lawsuit?
:lol
Sadly, I wouldn't put it past 'em at this point. Hopefully something much more celebratory and enjoyable though.
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a new lawsuit?
:lol
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>>>Well, here's the announcement. Hope any QR fans here will check it out.
B
July 18, 2023
Contact:
Brian J. Heaton – brianheaton444@gmail.com
James R. Beach – nwmetalworxmusic@gmail.com
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
“Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997)” Due in March 2024
LONGVIEW, Wash. – NW Metalworx Music will release Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997) in March 2024. The book is a deep dive into all the concert dates featuring Queensr˙che’s original lineup of Chris DeGarmo, Eddie Jackson, Scott Rockenfield, Geoff Tate, and Michael Wilton.
Authored by Queensr˙che biographer Brian J. Heaton, with northwest metal historian Brian L. Naron, Roads to Madness spans over 400 pages, featuring concert dates, verified setlists, tour history essays, fan commentary on shows, stage banter, live photos, show memorabilia imagery, and much more. The book also includes a foreword from Fates Warning biographer Jeff Wagner.
“Roads to Madness is a love letter to the majesty and power of Queensr˙che’s live performances in the 1980s and 1990s,” Heaton said. “It documents the band’s touring history through the eyes and ears of the audience, providing an authentic look at how Queensr˙che grew into one of the most respected live acts in heavy metal and hard rock.”
Heaton continues:
“It was important to me to focus solely on Queensr˙che’s first 16 years, when the original lineup of the band was intact. Queensr˙che’s albums during this period receive a lot of accolades, but that’s just half the story. A large part of Queensr˙che’s success was built on the group’s ability to expertly replicate its dramatic music on stage, enabling them to progress from cult status to arena headliners. Roads to Madness is a celebration of Queensr˙che’s extensive tours, a memento for people who saw the band in its formative and prime years, and a history lesson for the fans who missed out.”
Roads to Madness will be available in two formats: an oversized deluxe paperback, and a hardcover limited edition. Pre-orders will begin in late fall 2023. For more information on the book, and to connect and share your Queensr˙che concert experiences, visit facebook.com/roadstomadnessbook.
Brian J. Heaton co-wrote (with James R. Beach and Brian L. Naron), Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che, the first biography of the band, which was published in 2021 by NW Metalworx Music.
NW Metalworx Music is owned by James R. Beach and Brian L. Naron. The company reissues and issues LPs and CDs of great Pacific Northwest heavy metal and hard rock bands from the 1970s-1990s, along with books that celebrate the history of the scene.
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Ooooo I love stuff like this!
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That's awesome! I love the idea of a tourography book and can't wait to read it.
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Ooooo I love stuff like this!
Yep, me too.
Count me in as a first-day buyer (or pre-orderer as soon as a link appears ;))
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Thanks guys. A big part of this book are fan memories of gigs. While I'm basically finished with the text, there is enough time before the book goes into design and production to get additional memories and details added. So if you have anything you'd like to contribute, just shoot me over something via email about a specific show, and I'll edit it and send back for your approval. Once that works, I can add it.
Appreciate the support. This has been in the works for many years, and I'm glad to finally be getting it out there. :metal
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>>>Well, here's the announcement. Hope any QR fans here will check it out.
B
July 18, 2023
Contact:
Brian J. Heaton – brianheaton444@gmail.com
James R. Beach – nwmetalworxmusic@gmail.com
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
“Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997)” Due in March 2024
LONGVIEW, Wash. – NW Metalworx Music will release Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997) in March 2024. The book is a deep dive into all the concert dates featuring Queensr˙che’s original lineup of Chris DeGarmo, Eddie Jackson, Scott Rockenfield, Geoff Tate, and Michael Wilton.
Looking forward to it, Brian!
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Thanks P. And appreciate your contributions to the project. :metal
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I know there are less and less QR fans here on DTF these days, but I'm truly interested in the negative opinions about Hear in the Now Frontier, and thought I'd bring it up for discussion.
Look, let's state the obvious, no, it is not as "good" (as objectively as possible) as the records that came before it. I think even the staunchest supporter of Hear in the Now Frontier is likely going to admit that. But what baffles me now, 26 years since it first hit my ears, is that so many deny all the great guitar work on the record, and all the sonic hallmarks that make it truly "Queensryche."
Every single QR album through HITNF sounded different, stylistically, from one another. That was very much on purpose. But you knew immediately it was Queensryche, and not just because of Tate's voice. From the harmony solo in "You," to the moody epic in "spOOL," all the elements that made Queensryche what it was, are present on HITNF. I appreciate it way more now than I did back then. I hear more redeeming qualities in it than I did back then. It'll never be one of my favorites, just because admittedly, it's the first QR record that I felt had too much filler. But some of these songs are absolutely great tracks.
Question: Do you think that the more "siloed" opinions on music (record labels really pushing the genre thing for marketing, etc.), driven by the upsurge in the internet back in the late-90s, caused people (maybe some of us) to dismiss HITNF? If you think about it, Soundgarden's Down on the Upside was essentially in the same vein as Hear in the Now Frontier. Down on the Upside was a big hit, and people love it. QR does a record in a similar vein, with all the band's signature hallmarks, and its deadpanned. That's strange.
Sure, the label going bankrupt didn't help. And frankly, that's why I think HITNF didn't get the love it normally would have. "Sign of the Times" and "You" were doing great at radio (way better than "I Am I" and "Bridge" did at radio on PL) before EMI went under. Had the label continued, the tour would have been longer and many more records would have sold. I think that's obvious. But here we sit, 26 years later, and people still just slag on HITNF. When I listen, I hear...Queensryche, doing what it had always done, going a different direction, with songs that still sounded like "them." Hell, the b-side from the record, "Chasing Blue Sky" should have been on the regular track list.
Again, NOT saying it is one of the original band's best records. For me, no way, not even close. But when I put it on, and listen front to back, other than a handful of songs, it's a really solid record with a couple of tunes that will always standout ("spOOL" in particular - just listen to that guitar solo at the end that unfortunately was mixed too low).
I just think Hear in the Now Frontier gets a very bad rap and it shouldn't.
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I don't think the style or the band's playing was the problem; the problem was that the songwriting was far below their usual standard. The dry mix sure didn't help either, as the music sounds flat and lifeless, by and large. And I listened to this album more times than I can count in the later 90s as I wanted to love it, but I eventually came to the realization that it's just not very good, and it seems like most people came to that same conclusion (many probably quicker than me).
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I only listen to EP-HITNF era Queensryche now so I play this album on a semi regular basis. It's definitely not an ass kicker but its a good hard rock album. I think it's an album you have to play somewhat often and maybe just get comfortable with it. I can't stand All I Want; replace that with Chasing Blue Sky and the album is better immediately.
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I think the "siloed" opinions on music at the time played a role, for sure. I still remember reading the reviews on print at the time (Italian magazines) and, while they were not terrible, they tended to be up in arms with "OMG Queensryche went grunge" statements.
I didn't completely disagree with the observation that, maybe for the first time, the band had crafted something by being more "followers" than "leaders" of a sound. But I do agree with you, Brian, that there was still plenty of Queensryche "spirit" in HITNF.
I had a relatively complicated relationship with it, over the years. I liked it much more than I thought at first (again - my expectations had been set by what I had read in advance, and the first impact far surpassed them)...then it was a lot of ups and downs as I revisited it. There are undeniably strong songs, but also things that didn't work. "Saved", for example, embodies my feelings pretty well, all in one song: the "There's a river in your eyes.." part is so cool, and then the whole Saaaaave meee part I find just kinda grating.
Anyway, with all of its imperfections, while it's my least favorite of the albums with the original lineup, I still maintain HINTF is significantly better than anything else fronted by Tate (with the possible exception of Tribe, which I've always been fond of). Not a tall order, I know, but what I mean is exactly what you said - yes, for the first time the band hadn't come up with something great, but it still felt like, you know, a band :)
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RE: Hear in the Now Frontier
This album came out when I was 16, and at the very height of my fandom.
Now, given my age and my general disregard for whatever constitutes the popular opinion, I never saw an issue with HITNF. In fact, I agree with virtually everything Samsara had to say on this topic: QR had ALWAYS delivered singular musical statements, and in that regard, HITNF seemed in line with their ethos.
I suppose I also didn't give any regard to the 'grunge' label, because to me, HITNF sounded more like a mix of a '70s garage-rock album mixed with an Indie-rock touch. At that time, I was so into so many different genres of music–everything from Dream Theater to R.E.M. to Portishead–so QR embracing a different sonic approach was music to my ears.
Again, I tend to enjoy when bands ebb and flow from release to release–just read any of my glowing thoughts on Metallica's Load period.
As for the songs: contrary to Promised Land, an album that took a while for me to 'get,' I LOVED HITNF immediately. The opening salvo of "Sign of the Times," "Cuckoo's Nest," "Get a life," and "The Voice Inside," was a massive punch. I also really dug the final stretch from "Reach" to "Spool." Hell, even "Hero" and "Saved" felt like mid-album high-lights.
I think there's something to like about every song, and to this day, when I throw it on, I'm taken aback by the immediacy of the album. Mind you, there's moments where the band flashes their prog-tendancies ("Spool," "Some People Fly"), but the record has a solid momentum from cover to cover.
That all said, I completely get the how and why HITNF threw longtime fans for a loop. Many of the criticisms are valid, even if I don't personally share them.
To me, the saddest part about this era of QR is that it was the original line-up's last act, and it's a shame they went out on what many fans felt was a down note.
FWIW, I saw QR twice on this tour, and Tate definitely sounded like he was struggling. The band seemed shockingly tired compared the PL date I had seen just a few years earlier. It was a pretty shocking difference, and I think I knew trouble was brewing even before De-Garmo announced his departure.
Funny, even after everything that went down, I was still a first-day buyer for Q2K, and, well, nearly every record that followed. My fandom ran so deep that I hung with the band long after they stopped producing albums I truly loved. To me, HITNF is the last 'great' QR album.
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always loved it... was an odd tour many knew Chris was done and I was just sad and in shock during the shows I saw, the dry mix to me was about Chris's enjoying of the grunge folk sound that was coming out of the under ground at the time period and especially in the Seattle area. I dont even see much filler in it.
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Being from so far abroad can't comment on the touring and whatnot, but always liked HITNF. Well plenty of it at least. It was a departure in style at times and certainly the dry sound didn't help. And not everything worked.
Have always used Down On The Upside as a fair comparison myself, but where Soundgarden remained within their established area of expertise, as mentioned Queensryche were following for the first time and going for styles which often, simply didn't work. Great when it works but not so great when it doesn't which was unfortunately, too often.
So yes, for me the problem with HITNF was absolutely 'style over substance'.
And at 14 songs, and many of them average (IMO), the record ends up bloated.
But that said I did and still do enjoy it albeit rarely give it a full listen instead choosing to pick the favorites. Of which, to be fair, there are quite a few and while sometimes might sneak one or two others in, I usually tend to stick with these...
Sign Of The Times (brilliant)
Cuckoo's Nest (probably the best of the departures)
Some People Fly (beautiful)
Saved (killer outro they should've used for an entire song)
You (simple but catchy as heck)
Hit The Black (great energy, another cool departure)
Chasing Blue Sky (classic agree should've been on the regular album)
Also can't help but think HITNF has aged as well as it has because many of us were left yearning for some more 'classic' sounding Ryche as the years rolled by. Which is fine, I'll take it ;)
And on another note, the new Book has me intrigued Brian, hmmmm...
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I heard this album years after I heard the first five records. I remember liking it, but finding it a bit bloated. They definitely could have cut several songs. The grunge style suits them and most of the songs are fine as well, but there's too many of them. I also feel like the sound is a bit muddy. Had the album had a powerful production of for example Dirt by Alice In Chains, that would have been a whole different story.
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I don't think the style or the band's playing was the problem; the problem was that the songwriting was far below their usual standard. The dry mix sure didn't help either, as the music sounds flat and lifeless, by and large. And I listened to this album more times than I can count in the later 90s as I wanted to love it, but I eventually came to the realization that it's just not very good, and it seems like most people came to that same conclusion (many probably quicker than me).
I agree on the mix and overall sound. I don't necessarily agree on the songwriting. Some of it worked, very much so. But some of it didn't. The whole idea of the record was not to overcook the tunes. Write them and record them quickly without second guessing. It was a novel approach for Queensryche, as they had always worked and reworked songs and spent a lot of time in preproduction. They didn't here as an experiment with their process.
I can't stand All I Want; replace that with Chasing Blue Sky and the album is better immediately.
I think Chasing Blue Sky should absolutely have been on the record. I would have dropped Miles Away, Anytime/Anywhere, and All I Want, and replaced it with Chasing Blue Sky and called it a day.
RE: Hear in the Now Frontier
QR had ALWAYS delivered singular musical statements, and in that regard, HITNF seemed in line with their ethos.
Agreed. I actually didn't like PL on first listen, because it was a curveball after Empire. After sitting with PL one night on headphones, it hit me hard. So when HITNF came out, I wasn't surprised at the shift. But it also took me a bit to accept it, and I never really got to the same place with HITNF as I did PL.
I suppose I also didn't give any regard to the 'grunge' label, because to me, HITNF sounded more like a mix of a '70s garage-rock album mixed with an Indie-rock touch. At that time, I was so into so many different genres of music–everything from Dream Theater to R.E.M. to Portishead–so QR embracing a different sonic approach was music to my ears.
Again, I tend to enjoy when bands ebb and flow from release to release–just read any of my glowing thoughts on Metallica's Load period.
I enjoy that ebb and flow as well, but I also think a band needs to be conscious how far they can push their audience after that band achieves a certain level. I like Metallica's Load as a record. I don't necessarily like it as a METALLICA record. HITNF is a little different to me. Queensryche's path to that record flowed naturally if you pay attention closely to their catalog. So HITNF never seemed like a stretch, at least in retrospect. I mean, listen to Lucidity, then listen to PL, then listen to Disconnected, Out of Mind, I Am I, then listen to HITNF. The evolution is there. So it wasn't unexpected. What was jarring, and still is for me, is the mix. QR records were always HUGE sounding. Particularly Empire and PL. HITNF was very flat. Which was by design, but it makes it hard to digest.
As for the songs: contrary to Promised Land, an album that took a while for me to 'get,' I LOVED HITNF immediately. The opening salvo of "Sign of the Times," "Cuckoo's Nest," "Get a life," and "The Voice Inside," was a massive punch. I also really dug the final stretch from "Reach" to "Spool." Hell, even "Hero" and "Saved" felt like mid-album high-lights.
I think there's something to like about every song, and to this day, when I throw it on, I'm taken aback by the immediacy of the album. Mind you, there's moments where the band flashes their prog-tendancies ("Spool," "Some People Fly"), but the record has a solid momentum from cover to cover.
The more the years have gone on, the more I appreciate HITNF and what DeGarmo and Tate were trying to do. ALL the classic QR sonic hallmarks are spread throughout the record. I've always liked "Sign of the Times," "The Voice Inside," "You," "Reach," "Hit the Black" and "spOOL." Over the years though, I really developed a fondness for the guitar playing in "Hero," I really love the positive message in "Some People Fly," and enjoy the serene feeling in "Chasing Blue Sky." If those tunes alone were the record - those nine songs - I mean, I'd gush about HITNF. But while I like the lyrics of Cuckoo's Nest, I don't dig it musically, and while I like the music in Get A Life, I don't like the lyrics. And I'm just not a fan of Miles Away, Anytime/Anywhere, or All I Want.
To me, the saddest part about this era of QR is that it was the original line-up's last act, and it's a shame they went out on what many fans felt was a down note.
For the most part. I think the Tribe songs that all five of them recorded are solid, and Justified (which was written in those sessions) is pretty good too. For my money, I think "Open," "Desert Dance," "Falling Behind," "The Art of Life," "Doin' Fine" and "Justified" (the Tribe tracks all five were involved in) are a natural progression from HITNF, in terms of vibe and songwriting. Most people consider HITNF their swansong, but it's really those six songs, and I feel like they continue the sonic arc QR was on prior to CDG's first departure.
FWIW, I saw QR twice on this tour, and Tate definitely sounded like he was struggling. The band seemed shockingly tired compared the PL date I had seen just a few years earlier. It was a pretty shocking difference, and I think I knew trouble was brewing even before DeGarmo announced his departure.
Yeah, I saw them twice too. It was definitely a step down from PL.
Have always used Down On The Upside as a fair comparison myself, but where Soundgarden remained within their established area of expertise, as mentioned Queensryche were following for the first time and going for styles which often, simply didn't work. Great when it works but not so great when it doesn't which was unfortunately, too often.
That's the thing, Wardy. QR had been following trends starting with Empire. So this wasn't their first time. Chris was clearly inspired by Down on the Upside, SG in general, and obviously he's tight with the AIC boys. So that was inevitable, and not necessarily a bad thing. It was an experiment that was hurt by a record label going under. Like I make the case for above, had they not gone under, and QR toured extensively, I think HITNF would have reached a broader audience and that record would have done decently well.
And at 14 songs, and many of them average (IMO), the record ends up bloated.
Agreed on the bloat. For me, the HITNF sessions (if you include Chasing Blue Sky) are 15 songs. Of those, personally, I'd take nine for an album. Only one, however, rises to "gem" status for me personally, and that's "spOOL." The other eight are very good to above average album tracks.
Also can't help but think HITNF has aged as well as it has because many of us were left yearning for some more 'classic' sounding Ryche as the years rolled by. Which is fine, I'll take it ;)
Fair assessment. But for me personally, while that absolutely has an impact, I really have found more to love in the record the older I've gotten. And that's truthful, not just a yearning for nostalgia. I never "got" "Some People Fly" at the time like many did. Wasn't overly impressed. Now - I really enjoy that song. Same with "Hero." I still don't like Tate's vocal delivery (very monotone - but I think that's on purpose, which never dawned on me until the last few years), but the guitar work is among DeGarmo's finest, MO.
And on another note, the new Book has me intrigued Brian, hmmmm...
Thanks. Been a fun project. I've worked really hard on it. I could care less if it makes any money (as long as it pays for itself, I've invested thousands of my own money up front to help design and print it). But a book like this is, for all the old school Ryche fans, something I want them to crack open, find the shows they went to, and smile, and perhaps learn something new, or remember those times. I hope I did the band and everyone proud. Looking forward to it getting published.
I heard this album years after I heard the first five records. I remember liking it, but finding it a bit bloated. They definitely could have cut several songs. The grunge style suits them and most of the songs are fine as well, but there's too many of them. I also feel like the sound is a bit muddy. Had the album had a powerful production of for example Dirt by Alice In Chains, that would have been a whole different story.
Agreed completely. Dave Jerden would have been great on this record. I think Toby Wright's work speaks for itself, and I'm sure the band had a hand in the record's mix. They approved it, after all. But that dry, muddy sound doesn't help these particular songs. I mean, that killer end solo in "spOOL" is buried. It shouldn't be.
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Can we just reopen your old forum for some old-fashioned discussion and maybe some IP banning? :lol
For me, the negatives of HITNF are the songs - more accessible, a "sign of the times" trying to meld QR with the Seattle grunge scene. The production was drier to me.
Bottom line - I'm a metalhead. I like the heavier moments of bands like Dream Theater or QR, and I don't really care for when the bands veer too far away from that. QR came back to being a bit heavier on Q2K, but HITNF was too much of a step away for me. I do like the singles and rocking songs (Sign, You, Hit the Black, Reach) and Spool.
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Can we just reopen your old forum for some old-fashioned discussion and maybe some IP banning? :lol
God. NEVER. again. :lol
I wouldn't change anything, but I certainly never will run one of those again. To this day, people still don't grasp why that forum was so heavily moderated, and why that heavy hand was so appreciated by many (including some band members). It's always "Brian is an asshole." :lol ::)
For me, the negatives of HITNF are the songs - more accessible, a "sign of the times" trying to meld QR with the Seattle grunge scene. The production was drier to me.
Bottom line - I'm a metalhead. I like the heavier moments of bands like Dream Theater or QR, and I don't really care for when the bands veer too far away from that. QR came back to being a bit heavier on Q2K, but HITNF was too much of a step away for me. I do like the singles and rocking songs (Sign, You, Hit the Black, Reach) and Spool.
Yup, that's where my bread is buttered too, and your favs are among mine on that record. One aspect of it, I think, was that I believe people were hoping QR would just let it rip again. Get aggressive and lead the prog metal charge again. But that wasn't reality for them. Geoff didn't want to sing like that, and Chris' style had evolved away from that as well.
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Have always used Down On The Upside as a fair comparison myself, but where Soundgarden remained within their established area of expertise, as mentioned Queensryche were following for the first time and going for styles which often, simply didn't work. Great when it works but not so great when it doesn't which was unfortunately, too often.
That's the thing, Wardy. QR had been following trends starting with Empire. So this wasn't their first time. Chris was clearly inspired by Down on the Upside, SG in general, and obviously he's tight with the AIC boys. So that was inevitable, and not necessarily a bad thing. It was an experiment that was hurt by a record label going under. Like I make the case for above, had they not gone under, and QR toured extensively, I think HITNF would have reached a broader audience and that record would have done decently well.
Since you were likely witnessing that in real time - what were the trends you feel QR were following when they wrote Empire? I mean, other than more or less consciously trying to write more accessible, radio-friendly songs?
For HITNF, it felt more "obvious" that they were going for a certain kind of sound that was more in line with the early 90s Seattle scene (although, as was pointed out here, filtered through the QR sensibility). As far as my feelings towards the album were concerned, however, I never cared about that too much. I never thought it was an opportunistic move of any kind - I mean, it was 1997 and, arguably, "grunge" (whatever that meant) wasn't exactly a super-hot thing anymore at that point. My sense is that embracing this kind of sound was coming from a genuine desire from CDG, out of his appreciation for it, to go ahead with that shift.
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Since you were likely witnessing that in real time - what were the trends you feel QR were following when they wrote Empire? I mean, other than more or less consciously trying to write more accessible, radio-friendly songs?
Well, I mean, wasn't that the be all, end all trend at the time? :lol It was absolutely conscious on their part. They've said for ages the idea was to write individual songs that stand on their own, without any unifying theme.
For HITNF, it felt more "obvious" that they were going for a certain kind of sound that was more in line with the early 90s Seattle scene (although, as was pointed out here, filtered through the QR sensibility). As far as my feelings towards the album were concerned, however, I never cared about that too much. I never thought it was an opportunistic move of any kind - I mean, it was 1997 and, arguably, "grunge" (whatever that meant) wasn't exactly a super-hot thing anymore at that point. My sense is that embracing this kind of sound was coming from a genuine desire from CDG, out of his appreciation for it, to go ahead with that shift.
I think Empire was just as obvious as Hear in the Now Frontier. But I love your point about "grunge" (agreed on whatever that means) not being a super-hot thing any longer. QR was "BEHIND THE TIMES" in 1997 to a degree. Whereas with Empire, they were write on the money with the shift in their sound. I agree with your point about CDG showing his appreciation for the bands in his backyard. There's a lot to love in those bands, and while many might disagree, I think it was cool that Chris was influenced by it.
That whole scene, as big as it got, is actually very, very small. They still all know one another. DeGarmo was tight with Cornell, obviously he's tight with the AIC guys, and everyone knows everyone. That whole melting pot -- the success of Empire, in my mind, really allowed the one guy in the band who stretched out significantly as a songwriter (DeGarmo) to sit back a little and appreciate everyone that followed QR's success and went on to their own success in the 90s. And it rubbed off on him. Cantrell has said all the time how much he loves QR, and raves about Chris (all the AIC guys do). I really respect Chris for not being afraid to keep pushing himself as a songwriter.
That's the thing - I love Mike Wilton's style. (Being the other main music writer in the original band.) But Mike didn't...he didn't evolve to the degree Chris did as a songwriter. To this day, Michael maintains his signature sound. You know it's him when you hear him. When he solos, you know it's Whip. But his riffs...still great, but very identifiable. Whereas Chris...he kind of became a chameleon in the sense that he was pushing everywhere as a songwriter, throwing everything at a wall and trying things to just keep being different and seeing where it went. I'm not putting Mike down at all - no way. Just saying that I think Chris just kept evolving, while Mike really was comfortable being who he was. Both strengths that made QR a great band.
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Yep, agree with all of this. And speaking of how CDG kept wanting to genuinely "evolve" as a musician...of all things, that's maybe the part that saddens me the most about him detaching himself from consistently writing/producing music. This is not at all about QR...it's just about a great musician I would have loved to hear more from.
Speaking of "grunge" - I also always found it funny how in the early 90s there was this commonly pushed narrative that all of these music "scenes" were firmly separated (siloed, as you point out). I'm sure to some extent that was true, and that was partly driven by the fans themselves. Also true that there was some implicit reaction to the late 80s all-image/no-substance approach of some of the latecomers in the hair metal scene. But I would imagine that many of the musicians in the bands at the time (at least those that had genuine drive to create music as opposed to just try and jump on bandwagons) didn't care as much about scenes and such. Jerry Cantrell is a great example - still remember him guesting for a solo in Metal Church's Gods of Second Chance (1993!)
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I think HITNF is a fantastic album save the horrendous Chris song that he sang. I can't even name it, I just know I hated it from the word go. Other than that, I really think it is a very solid album.
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I think HITNF is a fantastic album save the horrendous Chris song that he sang. I can't even name it, I just know I hated it from the word go. Other than that, I really think it is a very solid album.
Lol, I’m beginning to think I might be the only person here (minus, maybe, Chris himself) who likes “All I Want.”
In fact, I not only like the song, but I would put it in my top-5 for the album. It has a Supertramp-meets-Jackson Browne vibe that really grabbed me from the get-go. Not saying he knew it was his final album with the band, but if CGD thought that leaving was a possibility, I’m glad he threw “All I Want” on there.
I’ve been saying it for 25 years now.., if DeGarmo ever releases a ‘true’ solo album, I’ll be first in line to buy it.
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I had forgotten how All I Want went :lol, but I gave it a fresh listen tonight. Not a great song, but not a terrible song. Definitely better than probably half of the songs that made HITNF. I know that is not saying much, but I don't see it as that album's bottom feeder.
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Lol, I’m beginning to think I might be the only person here (minus, maybe, Chris himself) who likes “All I Want.”
In fact, I not only like the song, but I would put it in my top-5 for the album. It has a Supertramp-meets-Jackson Browne vibe that really grabbed me from the get-go. Not saying he knew it was his final album with the band, but if CGD thought that leaving was a possibility, I’m glad he threw “All I Want” on there.
I’ve been saying it for 25 years now.., if DeGarmo ever releases a ‘true’ solo album, I’ll be first in line to buy it.
Actually, if memory serves, our esteemed DTF leader, bosk, loves that song, and enjoys the album immensely!
I don't "hate" All I Want. I think it would have been better served on a DeGarmo solo record, as it was very different for them, and QR never had another singer before. Tate's voice is just so powerful and distinct, his background vocals overwhelmed DeGarmo, just because Chris' voice is so thin. But for HITNF, I would have swapped in "Chasing Blue Sky."
re: DeGarmo solo - I'd love to hear him do something. When his daughter was first doing music, they did it together (songwriting and recording) as a father-daughter combo called "The Rue," as I know you know. Those songs, take Ryle's voice out, and many of those sound like PL-era (think Out of Mind) tunes. But lately, she has done her own thing, working with other writers, and CHris is simply producing and playing if needed, not writing.
So I hope Chris surprises us all with a solo offering some day. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, as I am sure it won't be old school metal, but we'll hear the QR musical soul throughout it. Because that's, well, Chris.
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I had forgotten how All I Want went :lol, but I gave it a fresh listen tonight. Not a great song, but not a terrible song. Definitely better than probably half of the songs that made HITNF. I know that is not saying much, but I don't see it as that album's bottom feeder.
Same here but I’d probably place it higher. It’s just not a good album, made worse by sounding dull.
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I think HITNF is a fantastic album save the horrendous Chris song that he sang. I can't even name it, I just know I hated it from the word go. Other than that, I really think it is a very solid album.
Lol, I’m beginning to think I might be the only person here (minus, maybe, Chris himself) who likes “All I Want.”
Nah, I love that song and I really like the whole album, too.
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I had forgotten how All I Want went :lol, but I gave it a fresh listen tonight. Not a great song, but not a terrible song. Definitely better than probably half of the songs that made HITNF. I know that is not saying much, but I don't see it as that album's bottom feeder.
Same here but I’d probably place it higher. It’s just not a good album, made worse by sounding dull.
Yeah, I gave a few of the songs a spin this weekend and not only does the production and mix sound super dull and lifeless, but Tate's voice sounds worn out and tired. It sounds like he recorded his vocals after the band had just finished four years of non-stop touring (which I know was not the case, but that is what it sounds like). I know some thought his voice was on the decline on Promised Land, and while it's true that his voice wasn't up in the rafters like it was in the 80s, with those songs and style, his vocals were still excellent. I can't say the same for Hear in the Now Frontier, although the material not being very good overall sure didn't help his cause either. Not sure even 80s Tate could have saved some of these songs.
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I saw the video for "Realms" a couple times this past week on a music station that I guess is provided by my Samsung TV. I have the station on as only a "holding" page, as I use streaming services. Anyway, it was the first video I have seen on TV for the band since something from Mindcrime II, I want to say. I hadn't listened to "Realms" since my first two spins of their latest record.
It just struck me and my wife, who sat there both times watching it with me, just how different QR is these days. She and I were in full-on reminiscing mode talking about my Roads to Madness book, and then that video popped on. I'm not using this post to comment on the song itself, but just the direction of QR since TLT joined up.
It's very obvious to me that in some ways, when writing songs, QR has lopped off everything post-Empire, style-wise, and then taken the band in a more...Mindcrime/Empire-era QR meets a No Exit-era FW...with not quite as impactful vocal melodies and hooks. I'm not sure how to make that a more succinct observation. But that's sorta how it sounds to both of (we said it independently, so that was pretty striking). You can hear Todd's heavier influences creeping more and more into the material (as they should, considering he's fronted the group for 11 years), but at the same time, I don't hear the same type of growth (not the right word) evolution from QR these days as you did with the original band.
The original QR morphed from one record to the next. the TLT era of QR's evolutionary needle isn't quite that pronounced. Everything sorta sits in a spot. I rather like the sound I hear on Condition Human through Digital Noise Alliance. (I sort of consider QR13 to be a shot at replicating Empire quickly, stylistically.) But because the TLT records are very...similar...from record to record, It's not quite something I'd listen to regularly, because it just doesn't have the hookiness from song to song, or the sound evolution from album to album that grabs my ear enough. That said, it's not something I turn off when it's on, either.
Not criticism in the slightest overall. What works for one person doesn't always work for another. That's the beauty of music. Just to my ear, they don't grab me necessarily like I thought they would, 11 years on from the singer switch. Whereas one of my co-writer on the QR biography, James Beach, swears by this era of QR by leaps and bounds. Both the records and live. For me personally, the highlight of this era of QR is the emergence of Eddie Jackson as a songwriter. I feel like he has the best melodic sense of the bunch, and gets the moody side of the band. So while change is hard, for me, one of the biggest positives has been Eddie coming to the forefront creatively.
Anyway, random thoughts after seeing "Realms" last week on TV. New video for "Tormentum" that was AI generated was strange, but sorta cool!
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I saw the video for "Realms" a couple times this past week on a music station that I guess is provided by my Samsung TV. I have the station on as only a "holding" page, as I use streaming services. Anyway, it was the first video I have seen on TV for the band since something from Mindcrime II, I want to say. I hadn't listened to "Realms" since my first two spins of their latest record.
It just struck me and my wife, who sat there both times watching it with me, just how different QR is these days. She and I were in full-on reminiscing mode talking about my Roads to Madness book, and then that video popped on. I'm not using this post to comment on the song itself, but just the direction of QR since TLT joined up.
It's very obvious to me that in some ways, when writing songs, QR has lopped off everything post-Empire, style-wise, and then taken the band in a more...Mindcrime/Empire-era QR meets a No Exit-era FW...with not quite as impactful vocal melodies and hooks. I'm not sure how to make that a more succinct observation. But that's sorta how it sounds to both of (we said it independently, so that was pretty striking). You can hear Todd's heavier influences creeping more and more into the material (as they should, considering he's fronted the group for 11 years), but at the same time, I don't hear the same type of growth (not the right word) evolution from QR these days as you did with the original band.
The original QR morphed from one record to the next. the TLT era of QR's evolutionary needle isn't quite that pronounced. Everything sorta sits in a spot. I rather like the sound I hear on Condition Human through Digital Noise Alliance. (I sort of consider QR13 to be a shot at replicating Empire quickly, stylistically.) But because the TLT records are very...similar...from record to record, It's not quite something I'd listen to regularly, because it just doesn't have the hookiness from song to song, or the sound evolution from album to album that grabs my ear enough. That said, it's not something I turn off when it's on, either.
Not criticism in the slightest overall. What works for one person doesn't always work for another. That's the beauty of music. Just to my ear, they don't grab me necessarily like I thought they would, 11 years on from the singer switch. Whereas one of my co-writer on the QR biography, James Beach, swears by this era of QR by leaps and bounds. Both the records and live. For me personally, the highlight of this era of QR is the emergence of Eddie Jackson as a songwriter. I feel like he has the best melodic sense of the bunch, and gets the moody side of the band. So while change is hard, for me, one of the biggest positives has been Eddie coming to the forefront creatively.
Anyway, random thoughts after seeing "Realms" last week on TV. New video for "Tormentum" that was AI generated was strange, but sorta cool!
We've talked about this a bit on here, and IMO it's one of the main weaknesses of this version of the band. There are multiple songs across the last few albums where there is an awesome build-up and then the chorus just... dies, or goes nowhere. It's definitely Todd, and I don't blame him because he definitely can write some catchy tunes and choruses.
I know he would never do it but it would be really cool if they could get Chris to come in and co-produce and help arrange their songs. I feel like he could really, really help Todd with songwriting (not that he's weak or terrible, just needs some focus). I don't know what Zeuss' specialty is because as a producer I think the last few QR records have sounded fantastic. But maybe he's more of a knob-turner and not big on impacting writing. IDK.
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I saw the video for "Realms" a couple times this past week on a music station that I guess is provided by my Samsung TV. I have the station on as only a "holding" page, as I use streaming services. Anyway, it was the first video I have seen on TV for the band since something from Mindcrime II, I want to say. I hadn't listened to "Realms" since my first two spins of their latest record.
It just struck me and my wife, who sat there both times watching it with me, just how different QR is these days. She and I were in full-on reminiscing mode talking about my Roads to Madness book, and then that video popped on. I'm not using this post to comment on the song itself, but just the direction of QR since TLT joined up.
It's very obvious to me that in some ways, when writing songs, QR has lopped off everything post-Empire, style-wise, and then taken the band in a more...Mindcrime/Empire-era QR meets a No Exit-era FW...with not quite as impactful vocal melodies and hooks. I'm not sure how to make that a more succinct observation. But that's sorta how it sounds to both of (we said it independently, so that was pretty striking). You can hear Todd's heavier influences creeping more and more into the material (as they should, considering he's fronted the group for 11 years), but at the same time, I don't hear the same type of growth (not the right word) evolution from QR these days as you did with the original band.
The original QR morphed from one record to the next. the TLT era of QR's evolutionary needle isn't quite that pronounced. Everything sorta sits in a spot. I rather like the sound I hear on Condition Human through Digital Noise Alliance. (I sort of consider QR13 to be a shot at replicating Empire quickly, stylistically.) But because the TLT records are very...similar...from record to record, It's not quite something I'd listen to regularly, because it just doesn't have the hookiness from song to song, or the sound evolution from album to album that grabs my ear enough. That said, it's not something I turn off when it's on, either.
Not criticism in the slightest overall. What works for one person doesn't always work for another. That's the beauty of music. Just to my ear, they don't grab me necessarily like I thought they would, 11 years on from the singer switch. Whereas one of my co-writer on the QR biography, James Beach, swears by this era of QR by leaps and bounds. Both the records and live. For me personally, the highlight of this era of QR is the emergence of Eddie Jackson as a songwriter. I feel like he has the best melodic sense of the bunch, and gets the moody side of the band. So while change is hard, for me, one of the biggest positives has been Eddie coming to the forefront creatively.
Anyway, random thoughts after seeing "Realms" last week on TV. New video for "Tormentum" that was AI generated was strange, but sorta cool!
I tend to agree with a lot of that....
Id throw in post Tate to me IMO " the beauty and emotional bond with the song via Tates talents live and in the studio" is long gone now, throw in more "cookie cutter metal and IMO and I REPEAT IMO a far worse voice to my ears and a non connecting frontman presence as far as being an entertainer" and what was QR is just not there at all for me.
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I also appreciate the change and whatnot but am just happy to be getting good music from them regardless. Should they have forged on as Rising West? Maybe, but what we've gotten is FAR better than what we had by then, and saved the Queensryche name having been butchered further...
Look, for me personally, nothing will ever surpass the classic lineup, prime Tate, the material and directions etc, not likely from any band. But things are going okay IMO and hell, Digital Noise Alliance fucking rules!
So yeah, there's that :metal
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RE: Hear in the Now Frontier
This album came out when I was 16, and at the very height of my fandom.
Now, given my age and my general disregard for whatever constitutes the popular opinion, I never saw an issue with HITNF. In fact, I agree with virtually everything Samsara had to say on this topic: QR had ALWAYS delivered singular musical statements, and in that regard, HITNF seemed in line with their ethos.
I suppose I also didn't give any regard to the 'grunge' label, because to me, HITNF sounded more like a mix of a '70s garage-rock album mixed with an Indie-rock touch. At that time, I was so into so many different genres of music–everything from Dream Theater to R.E.M. to Portishead–so QR embracing a different sonic approach was music to my ears.
Again, I tend to enjoy when bands ebb and flow from release to release–just read any of my glowing thoughts on Metallica's Load period.
As for the songs: contrary to Promised Land, an album that took a while for me to 'get,' I LOVED HITNF immediately. The opening salvo of "Sign of the Times," "Cuckoo's Nest," "Get a life," and "The Voice Inside," was a massive punch. I also really dug the final stretch from "Reach" to "Spool." Hell, even "Hero" and "Saved" felt like mid-album high-lights.
I think there's something to like about every song, and to this day, when I throw it on, I'm taken aback by the immediacy of the album. Mind you, there's moments where the band flashes their prog-tendancies ("Spool," "Some People Fly"), but the record has a solid momentum from cover to cover.
That all said, I completely get the how and why HITNF threw longtime fans for a loop. Many of the criticisms are valid, even if I don't personally share them.
To me, the saddest part about this era of QR is that it was the original line-up's last act, and it's a shame they went out on what many fans felt was a down note.
FWIW, I saw QR twice on this tour, and Tate definitely sounded like he was struggling. The band seemed shockingly tired compared the PL date I had seen just a few years earlier. It was a pretty shocking difference, and I think I knew trouble was brewing even before De-Garmo announced his departure.
Funny, even after everything that went down, I was still a first-day buyer for Q2K, and, well, nearly every record that followed. My fandom ran so deep that I hung with the band long after they stopped producing albums I truly loved. To me, HITNF is the last 'great' QR album.
I also like this post very much ^
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I spent the last 2 weekends in the sun with one of my convertibles at the beach and I have had in HITNF in the CD player and I must say I find this CD so relevant and timeless, my GF also was shocked how current on subject and humanity it remains.
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I spent the last 2 weekends in the sun with one of my convertibles at the beach and I have had in HITNF in the CD player and I must say I find this CD so relevant and timeless, my GF also was shocked how current on subject and humanity it remains.
Good stuff. Yeah, the social commentary in it is still, sadly, on-point.
Tate and Adrian Vandenberg announced a co-headline tour for early 2024. Sounds cool. I may go check that out if they do a second leg out west. Hoping Tate puts a couple HITNF songs in the set. Be nice to hear spOOL and Reach again live. Tate has played spOOL with his solo bands (I saw him do it at the Catwalk in Seattle back in 2001). I think he did it in 2014 too.
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I spent the last 2 weekends in the sun with one of my convertibles at the beach and I have had in HITNF in the CD player and I must say I find this CD so relevant and timeless, my GF also was shocked how current on subject and humanity it remains.
Good stuff. Yeah, the social commentary in it is still, sadly, on-point.
Tate and Adrian Vandenberg announced a co-headline tour for early 2024. Sounds cool. I may go check that out if they do a second leg out west. Hoping Tate puts a couple HITNF songs in the set. Be nice to hear spOOL and Reach again live. Tate has played spOOL with his solo bands (I saw him do it at the Catwalk in Seattle back in 2001). I think he did it in 2014 too.
agreed to think that was 1997 and its all so sadly true
I remember them coming out at sundown at one of the shows and opening with The Voice Inside and the place just in trance and the song just was so perfect, as I talked a bit about it was bitter sweet shows knowing Chris had told the inner circle, close media type that he was leaving, I felt so upset when they did Someone Else at the end of the show. It was a show unlike any other QR show but I guess they all were
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agreed to think that was 1997 and its all so sadly true
I remember them coming out at sundown at one of the shows and opening with The Voice Inside and the place just in trance and the song just was so perfect, as I talked a bit about it was bitter sweet shows knowing Chris had told the inner circle, close media type that he was leaving, I felt so upset when they did Someone Else at the end of the show. It was a show unlike any other QR show but I guess they all were
I don't want to ruin your memory, but they only played "The Voice Inside" on the Hear in the Now Frontier tour...and they didn't close with "Someone Else?" on that tour. They only closed with that on the PL tour, and it was not played at all on the HITNF tour. So you may be mixing two different show experiences together. :)
Not sure where you are, but I was at both the NY (LI) HITNF shows and the NY (LI) PL show. They were all in July, so most likely started as the sun was just about gone, yeah. Great memories. Part of what my new book is all about - sharing those concert memories with everyone.
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agreed to think that was 1997 and its all so sadly true
I remember them coming out at sundown at one of the shows and opening with The Voice Inside and the place just in trance and the song just was so perfect, as I talked a bit about it was bitter sweet shows knowing Chris had told the inner circle, close media type that he was leaving, I felt so upset when they did Someone Else at the end of the show. It was a show unlike any other QR show but I guess they all were
I don't want to ruin your memory, but they only played "The Voice Inside" on the Hear in the Now Frontier tour...and they didn't close with "Someone Else?" on that tour. They only closed with that on the PL tour, and it was not played at all on the HITNF tour. So you may be mixing two different show experiences together. :)
Not sure where you are, but I was at both the NY (LI) HITNF shows and the NY (LI) PL show. They were all in July, so most likely started as the sun was just about gone, yeah. Great memories. Part of what my new book is all about - sharing those concert memories with everyone.
ah thank you I just go from blown away memory today , thank you for the clarity, It was a wild time for me and many tours for many bands seemed merged and getting foggier lol.
what was the closer on the HITNF tour? I guess that closer of someone else was just so powerful it made me feel how I felt at the end of the HITNF tour amazing that was 27 years ago? feeling old lol
The PL tour was so mind altering but in some ways I like HITNF as an album more than PL ( today, could change mind LOL ), It was an odd tour
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QR closed with "Some People Fly" on the HITNF tour.
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QR closed with "Some People Fly" on the HITNF tour.
ah no wonder I ( we ) felt the same emotions at the end of the shows knowing it was the end of Chris..I guess I got those two powerful closers mixed in my mind
thank you have a great day
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Well, none of us knew Chris was leaving, so that's sorta a retrospective feeling, ya know? Chris didn't even tell the band he was leaving until fall 1997. So in June/July 1997, while I am sure the future was on all their minds, we didn't know Chris was going to jump ship. We all felt something was...off...with the band's performance, but at least in my case, at the time, I chalked it up to Tate recovering from his cold.
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Well, none of us knew Chris was leaving, so that's sorta a retrospective feeling, ya know? Chris didn't even tell the band he was leaving until fall 1997. So in June/July 1997, while I am sure the future was on all their minds, we didn't know Chris was going to jump ship. We all felt something was...off...with the band's performance, but at least in my case, at the time, I chalked it up to Tate recovering from his cold.
I'll second this. At the time, I was very aware that something felt/seemed 'off,' but it was only in retrospect that I was able to put it all together.
Honestly, as a massive DeGarmo fan, he was my focus for much of the shows I saw. If I hadn't been so zeroed in on him, I might not have ever noticed anything.
Also, I only saw two dates on that tour (and one set was like 3 songs), so for all I knew at the time, I simply caught the band during an 'off' stretch.
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Hey everyone. Thanks to all of you who have reached out to me about the Roads to Madness book. I appreciate the interest and support. The book heads into production in about six weeks, so I'm in the midst of gathering the final bits and pieces for it.
On that note, I wanted to extend an invitation to those of you who have seen Queensryche's original lineup live, to submit some memories of shows and if you have them, photos you took of the band live during that early era of 1981-1997. For the "attendee comments" as I saw them, for example, this is one I wrote for the Jones Beach '97 show:
Attendee comment: “As soon as the band started to play ‘Get a Life,’ I had a feeling they’d likely be back playing the full setlist from earlier in the tour. The crowd at Jones Beach was noticeably smaller than two years earlier, but I remember being excited because Geoff Tate went for the note in the beginning of ‘Take Hold of the Flame.’ He couldn't quite hold it, and his voice was still a bit nasally from a summer cold he was battling, but it was a fun show.” – Brian Heaton
I'd love to put in as many memories as I can from folks. It can be a paragraph like that, or a couple of paragraphs. It just helps bring the story to life more. Same with photos (they have to be ones you took personally). If you have ticket stubs, backstage passes, show flyers from gigs you went to -- all of that, I can, and will be happy to include, space permitting.
If you have anything to share, please email me at roadstomadnessbook@gmail.com, and include your name as you'd like to see credited in the book. (Most folks use their full name, some go first name, last initial, etc. Just no nicknames please.) My process is basically to take the comments, do a light edit (if needed) and then send back to you for approval. Once approved, I list it like what you see above, under the gig it pertains to.
So excited to get this in production.
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"So drummer Scott Rockenfield described the tour as wonderful, since he got to stare at his wife's butt each night, leaving fans to admire her other attributes. Lead singer Geoff Tate casually strolled around the stage in a smoking jacket, occasionally sitting on a couch shaped like lips as he sang the chorus to Sacred Ground to his wife, Susan."
Oh wait, wrong tour. :biggrin:
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I remember seeing QR at the Morristown NJ stop on the 30th Anniversary Tour. Opening with "Get Started" didn't bode too well for the evening as I can't stand anything from DTC. It was just a weird setlist for a 30th Anniversary celebration. There was a stretch of like 4 songs that I'd heard maybe twice because they came from albums I just don't listen to. "Hit The Black" was very cool to hear. But, the fact that there were as many songs from both DTC and American Soldier as there were Mindcrime made this show very forgettable.
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I think I've heard Get Started 2 or 3 times ever and will never listen to that song again.
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The funny thing about DTC was that Slater would give Tate all these old demos he wrote to pick from. And they were like discarded ideas. And Tate would pick the worst of the bunch and want them fleshed out into songs. Slater used to laugh about it. Because he didn't want to give Tate any of his good ideas because of how American Soldier was handled. I remember a phone call between Jason and I, and he sent me this track, I listened to it (it was this very Pink Floyd-like track), and he goes "Tate ain't gettin' this one." And there were a couple of heavier tracks Jason said the same thing about. Slater never wanted to write songs for someone else to produce...and that's what Tate wanted after Mindcrime. He wanted Slater's songs, but didn't want him to produce -- he wanted to give that to Kelly Gray. But Slater outright refused to give up the tracks he loved to Tate because Tate was allegedly reneging on promises to pay Slater (I believe them wholeheartedly after seeing some of the financials Jason shared with me and emails back and forth). DTC was crap. Utter crap.
I'd probably get sued by the Tates if I released it, but I have some DTC demos that no one has ever heard with Tate's vocals. A terrible tune called "Princess" and some others. All stuff Jason sent to me years before he passed. Just crap. Jason sent them to me just so I knew what kind of songs that Tate really wanted to sing over (bad pop tunes). It was hysterical.
I don't think I listened to the entirety of "Get Started" more than twice. IIRC, it lacks teeth. No punch whatsoever.
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Cool insight!
Dedicated to Chaos is one of the worst, if not the worst, album I've ever heard and I enjoyed throwing it away into a BFI and not hearing it again.
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DTC and the Dedicated To Cabaret tour ended the band outright for me. Complete and utter dross.
At least until Todd came on board but am convinced had that not happened things would not have improved again.
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Frequency unknown was even worse than Dedicated to chaos. At least Dedicated to chaos had a memorable riff or two, Frequency unknown has nothing going for it.
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That's fair but for my ears Frequency Unknown was Tate solo stamped Queensryche :-\
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i know there have been some controversies, but i'm firmly on TEAM TATE! his vocals and presence on stage have always captivated me, and i can't deny the impact he's had on the band's unique sound and my own musical journey. seriously, how can anyone hate on the genius behind operation: mindcrime?
TEAM TATE!!!!!
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i know there have been some controversies, but i'm firmly on TEAM TATE! his vocals and presence on stage have always captivated me, and i can't deny the impact he's had on the band's unique sound and my own musical journey. seriously, how can anyone hate on the genius behind operation: mindcrime?
TEAM TATE!!!!!
DragQueensryche! :neverusethis:
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i know there have been some controversies, but i'm firmly on TEAM TATE! his vocals and presence on stage have always captivated me, and i can't deny the impact he's had on the band's unique sound and my own musical journey. seriously, how can anyone hate on the genius behind operation: mindcrime?
TEAM TATE!!!!!
No one hates on Operation: Mindcrime (well…not the album anyway…and we don’t really hate the band either, that’s just more of a general type of pathetic. I feel sorry for the band members the same way I feel sorry for Vince Neil’s backing band when he did his ill fated solo tour)
And I don’t think anyone here will deny that from 82-94ish, there was literally no greater voice in metal…possibly even in history.
But his completely toxic meltdown and the disrespect he showered on both the fans and his band mates made Charlie Sheen look like Tom Hanks. Even back when he was at the top of his game, he had the reputation in the music industry of being the biggest egotistical ass in history, but everyone looked the other way because of his literally “once in a lifetime” phenomenal talent. But once his voice started going out, and his writing talent turned to festering dog snot, and he turned his back on everyone who helped him get to where he was…there was nothing left but an megalomaniac dickweed.
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You nailed it!
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seriously, how can anyone hate on the genius behind operation: mindcrime?
Because he's also the "genius" behind Dedicated to Chaos?
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So Ross Halfin just put up a book on Queensr˙che for pre-order. I grabbed it right at 7 a.m. Pacific, when it went up. Here's the link: https://www.rufuspublications.com/rufusbooks/queensryche/
I was here at the office early, refreshing the screen, and got on, and had two options. The $345 signed and numbered version, or the absolute #1 version, which they were selling at $1,280!!!!! WTF?! Of course, I put it in the cart, realized I might be sleeping outside had I bought it (the wife is a massive metal fan and classic QR was here favorite - like mine - for years, but she would have killed me), and thought better. The moment I dropped it from my cart, and bought the non-number 1 version, the number 1 was gone and unavailable. Cheers to whoever got it. I think I know the four or five people other than me that would have done it. So, if you're out there, Mike, Kory, or Thomas, cheers! I just didn't want to spend that much.
But the book looks awesome. And my book, Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997) is going to be the perfect compliment to it (and it will NOT cost $345 bucks, probably more like $60-$100 - or lower - depending on the version. Total guess, haven't talked price yet, since we haven't printed it and seen the cost).
Anyway, the Halfin book will be cool, and is signed by him, Tate, DeGarmo, Wilton, and Jackson. Guess they elected not to include Rockenfield, or he elected not to. A shame.
re: QR - I think the fan base has gone through enough "sides." QR as I love it has been gone for many, many years. Now, I just go see Tate, or go see the current QR when I feel like some nostalgia, and do my own part to make sure the classic, original lineup history is preserved...ACCURATELY...for everyone. The Roads to Madness book will be exactly that. Celebrating a great band, and archiving their live performance history.
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i know there have been some controversies, but i'm firmly on TEAM TATE! his vocals and presence on stage have always captivated me, and i can't deny the impact he's had on the band's unique sound and my own musical journey. seriously, how can anyone hate on the genius behind operation: mindcrime?
TEAM TATE!!!!!
No one hates on Operation: Mindcrime (well…not the album anyway…and we don’t really hate the band either, that’s just more of a general type of pathetic. I feel sorry for the band members the same way I feel sorry for Vince Neil’s backing band when he did his ill fated solo tour)
And I don’t think anyone here will deny that from 82-94ish, there was literally no greater voice in metal…possibly even in history.
But his completely toxic meltdown and the disrespect he showered on both the fans and his band mates made Charlie Sheen look like Tom Hanks. Even back when he was at the top of his game, he had the reputation in the music industry of being the biggest egotistical ass in history, but everyone looked the other way because of his literally “once in a lifetime” phenomenal talent. But once his voice started going out, and his writing talent turned to festering dog snot, and he turned his back on everyone who helped him get to where he was…there was nothing left but an megalomaniac dickweed.
Ohter than Tate being a gernerational talent and the best vocalist in R NR History ( maybe ) I dont agree with much the above.. and to my eyes ite not accurate
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i know there have been some controversies, but i'm firmly on TEAM TATE! his vocals and presence on stage have always captivated me, and i can't deny the impact he's had on the band's unique sound and my own musical journey. seriously, how can anyone hate on the genius behind operation: mindcrime?
TEAM TATE!!!!!
No one hates on Operation: Mindcrime (well…not the album anyway…and we don’t really hate the band either, that’s just more of a general type of pathetic. I feel sorry for the band members the same way I feel sorry for Vince Neil’s backing band when he did his ill fated solo tour)
And I don’t think anyone here will deny that from 82-94ish, there was literally no greater voice in metal…possibly even in history.
But his completely toxic meltdown and the disrespect he showered on both the fans and his band mates made Charlie Sheen look like Tom Hanks. Even back when he was at the top of his game, he had the reputation in the music industry of being the biggest egotistical ass in history, but everyone looked the other way because of his literally “once in a lifetime” phenomenal talent. But once his voice started going out, and his writing talent turned to festering dog snot, and he turned his back on everyone who helped him get to where he was…there was nothing left but an megalomaniac dickweed.
Ohter than Tate being a gernerational talent and the best vocalist in R NR History ( maybe ) I dont agree with much the above.. and to my eyes ite not accurate
rock on brother - one might even say that this is an "epic view" :rollin :metal
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Some people just can't let the whole "Team XX" mentality go :natalieportman:
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And I don’t think anyone here will deny that from 82-94ish, there was literally no greater voice in metal…possibly even in history.
But his completely toxic meltdown and the disrespect he showered on both the fans and his band mates made Charlie Sheen look like Tom Hanks. Even back when he was at the top of his game, he had the reputation in the music industry of being the biggest egotistical ass in history, but everyone looked the other way because of his literally “once in a lifetime” phenomenal talent. But once his voice started going out, and his writing talent turned to festering dog snot, and he turned his back on everyone who helped him get to where he was…there was nothing left but an megalomaniac dickweed.
Tate was an iconic metal vocalist for a solid decade. But I agree, what he did was horrendous. Not just the physical and verbal assaults of his bandmates, but what he tried to pull under their noses (sell the movie rights to Mindcrime). Tate has always known he's a great singer. But he likely would never have gotten to where he did without everyone else. I think in particular, without Chris DeGarmo. People forget -- while Tate wrote a lot of lyrics, Chris wrote a lot of the vocal melodies, and steered Tate a bit. When Chris came back for Tribe, and Tate resisted that, Chris left again (assuming that was one of multiple reasons). So Queensryche was very much a sum of its parts, not one man. Just listen to the vocal melodies Tate has done, post-Chris. They've not been the same, AT ALL. Q2k through current. Good vocal melodies are lacking. It's pretty obvious. Queensryche, as I said, very much a sum of its parts.
I'd like to think in the last few years, as Tate has aged and his life has changed, that he has mended fences with everyone. He certainly appears (from the outside looking in) a bit more humble and appreciative. I'm sure he's still the same guy generally (and that's not any of my business), but I hope this Halfin project at least got them to smile a bit together.
All that said though -- the truth is the truth. Tate did some horrendous things, and while people have moved on (and some have tried to forget them), they are facts that can never be undone. Just made up for. My .02 -- if you want to hear QR tunes, go see Tate and go see the current QR. Just enjoy the music. Try not to nitpick. It took me a long time to reach that stage. I'm not "happy" with how either side performs the songs. But I know that's as much as I'm going to get, so when I do go, I just try to enjoy it and sing the songs I love. These guys won't be here forever. Enjoy what you can, when you can.
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My only point is I met them during the early days and tours and Tate was actually the nicest guy and I never saw him ever not be kind to all the fans and many times go above the call to make sure fans were made happy, MANY MANY other rockstars metal stars back then that I met were complete aholes but nobody gave a damn it was the crazy 80s, It appears Tate was driven to anger by his old bandmates and it got out of hand, but thats between grown %ss men so I dont care as nobody knows what the real dynamic was but those involved and it appears to my eye the "war" came out of the "tiffs" the wives and family had with each other that fueled a lot of hostility. I with my eyes witnessed Tates kindness so when I read stuff that hes a "bad guy" and know how many truly nasty dumb ignorant rockstars exist and I have met it bothers me that somehow people think Tates a bad guy or like that type... has anyone here witness him being a jerk? I know with my eyes I saw him make sure disabled people got good seats, that they got to meet him talk to him and have him sign stuff and shake their hands and other very kind gestures. to me Tates a good dude. I have seen him be the only one to meet then fans when others in band chose to not to and he had to be exhausted,
all my opinion and my views
EV..
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has anyone here witness him being a jerk?
Yes, and some here (and on a former QR board) have posted about that, including me posting about my own experiences with him. It's great that you had a positive experience with him. And, yes, there are great examples of him doing really kind things for some fans. But: (1) That doesn't diminish the pretty well documented negative experiences of many. (2) Given the negative experiences of many, the positive experiences of some actually make him look worse, because that shows it is a conscious choice on his part to treat some well (because he knows how and has demonstrated that) and treat others poorly. It's almost more understandable if someone is just a jerk to everyone, and you know that's just their personality and you get what you get when you deal with them. It's another when they deem certain people worthy of good behavior and others not worth their time and common courtesy. Again, that makes it a conscious decision.
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My only point is I met them during the early days and tours and Tate was actually the nicest guy and I never saw him ever not be kind to all the fans and many times go above the call to make sure fans were made happy, MANY MANY other rockstars metal stars back then that I met were complete aholes but nobody gave a damn it was the crazy 80s, It appears Tate was driven to anger by his old bandmates and it got out of hand, but thats between grown %ss men so I dont care as nobody knows what the real dynamic was but those involved and it appears to my eye the "war" came out of the "tiffs" the wives and family had with each other that fueled a lot of hostility. I with my eyes witnessed Tates kindness so when I read stuff that hes a "bad guy" and know how many truly nasty dumb ignorant rockstars exist and I have met it bothers me that somehow people think Tates a bad guy or like that type... has anyone here witness him being a jerk? I know with my eyes I saw him make sure disabled people got good seats, that they got to meet him talk to him and have him sign stuff and shake their hands and other very kind gestures. to me Tates a good dude. I have seen him be the only one to meet then fans when others in band chose to not to and he had to be exhausted,
all my opinion and my views
EV..
Geoff's behavior from 1995 onwards was documented in the court records after he was fired from the band. Ultimately, he tried to sell Queensryche's intellectual property (the rights to the Mindcrime story) to a movie producer behind the band's back and would have made a profit of $1 million without the band knowing about it. He employed his family members through the band's fan club and merchandise, his wife was paid as their manager, and the Tate family seemed to profit off of the backs of the band. When the band questioned this in 2012, the shit hit the fan.
I'm sure he was fairly cool to many fans over the years, like you, but that doesn't necessarily reflect how he acted towards his bandmates internally.
I can be pretty objective about the band now, without feeling like one side is better or worse than the other and enjoy aspects of both Geoff and the band's work and shows.
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My experience was different. I met several radio personalities in the Seattle area in the 80s. I was fascinated by their lives and jobs and ask them pretty standard questions…
“What’s it like?”
“Who have you met!”
“Who was the nicest?”
“Ever met anyone who was a real jerk?”
The funny thing is, I would hear from several of them, “the guys in QR are great, but their lead singer is the most egotistical asshole I’ve ever met in my life.” This was a response I heard more than once and it was back in the EP/Warning days. Then I met him at a Kiss concert in 1987 (pre-OMC) and I had a very similar experience. In fact he was acting like such a major conceited jerk that Whip (who I hadn’t noticed at first) had to dive into the conversation to save the day. And he was super nice, kind, even talked to me about the new album they were in the middle of recording (which would turn out to be OMC). And then after that experience I heard many more reports among musicians (Portnoy was the most vocal, but there were many others) about what an insufferable jerk he was.
IDK…it’s like I’ve never heard a single good thing about the guy when he wasn’t at some form of official function where he *had* to be. So based on ALL of that, plus my personal experience, plus the crap he pulled with the band. Let’s just say if it looks like duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, you’ve got a duck.
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has anyone here witness him being a jerk?
Yes, and some here (and on a former QR board) have posted about that, including me posting about my own experiences with him. It's great that you had a positive experience with him. And, yes, there are great examples of him doing really kind things for some fans. But: (1) That doesn't diminish the pretty well documented negative experiences of many. (2) Given the negative experiences of many, the positive experiences of some actually make him look worse, because that shows it is a conscious choice on his part to treat some well (because he knows how and has demonstrated that) and treat others poorly. It's almost more understandable if someone is just a jerk to everyone, and you know that's just their personality and you get what you get when you deal with them. It's another when they deem certain people worthy of good behavior and others not worth their time and common courtesy. Again, that makes it a conscious decision.
Boss... good to see you and I pray things are better for you today!!!.... may I ask what that experience was? I met them all and each time was pretty consistent, so IDK I guess nobody really knows could be good day vs bad day ... I can say I met many many rockstars back then and some were just bad guys period. I guess witnessing Tate make so many happy and seing him really do nice things and never seeing otherwise is why I speak that hes a fine guy and I truly believe that ( yes we are flawed humans and tate is also )
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it seems that the dogs will always try to hold the panthers back. i suggest that tate's detractors watch one of brad bird's movies, like the incredibles.
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My experience was different. I met several radio personalities in the Seattle area in the 80s. I was fascinated by their lives and jobs and ask them pretty standard questions…
“What’s it like?”
“Who have you met!”
“Who was the nicest?”
“Ever met anyone who was a real jerk?”
The funny thing is, I would hear from several of them, “the guys in QR are great, but their lead singer is the most egotistical asshole I’ve ever met in my life.” This was a response I heard more than once and it was back in the EP/Warning days. Then I met him at a Kiss concert in 1987 (pre-OMC) and I had a very similar experience. In fact he was acting like such a major conceited jerk that Whip (who I hadn’t noticed at first) had to dive into the conversation to save the day. And he was super nice, kind, even talked to me about the new album they were in the middle of recording (which would turn out to be OMC). And then after that experience I heard many more reports among musicians (Portnoy was the most vocal, but there were many others) about what an insufferable jerk he was.
IDK…it’s like I’ve never heard a single good thing about the guy when he wasn’t at some form of official function where he *had* to be. So based on ALL of that, plus my personal experience, plus the crap he pulled with the band. Let’s just say if it looks like duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, you’ve got a duck.
thanks for sharing JD!! I can only go by my experiences and I always surprised how giving he was .. the last time I met GT was on the Tribe tour. have had no contact that I can remember since well if it helps I can tell you he "can be" very very nice insightful and patient with the fans as they are in awe as they try to tell him how much they love him the band a song or a story etc. I dont remember back then him having a bad rep? Scott to me was on and off, Ed MIke and Chris all very nice also, Mike Stone super nice,
hey some people think Im the best others dont : ). (PS I am LOL )
I could tell some very wild funny crazy stories of back then especially one show that it got out of control with fans trying to break into their dressing room lounge area...Ed was very funny that night,,,Geoff was quite calm in the storm and funny too. I miss the old days I dontt think those days can ever come back in todays society sadly, I gotta think deep down they miss each other
I love thinking about all this old stuff everyone!!!
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I just want to reiterate that it does seem like every positive story I’ve heard about Tate’s behavior, was when he is at some form of function where he knows he’s going to be interacting with fans in some way, shape, or form, and thus has had an opportunity to prepare and put on his best “game face”. And I believe that’s what Bosk is alluding to. He comes across as if he can be nice when he feels it’s necessary, but it’s not his nature.
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it seems that the dogs will always try to hold the panthers back. i suggest that tate's detractors watch one of brad bird's movies, like the incredibles.
I guess those Sneeches are not the best on the Beaches. They mostly likely have no stars on thars…
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I just want to reiterate that it does seem like every positive story I’ve heard about Tate’s behavior, was when he is at some form of function where he knows he’s going to be interacting with fans in some way, shape, or form, and thus has had an opportunity to prepare and put on his best “game face”. And I believe that’s what Bosk is alluding to. He comes across as if he can be nice when he feels it’s necessary, but it’s not his nature.
funny I was just thinking is GT an extrovert or an introvert... Id say on the cusp
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it seems that the dogs will always try to hold the panthers back.
Yeah, you'll always have people like that. And that's a shame when people try to knock other people down. But that isn't what's going on here. Not at all. What people are discussing in this thread isn't singling someone out who is at the top of their game and trying to take them down a peg. NOBODY here would dispute Tate's ability back in the '80s and early '90s, or his part of the collective influence QR has had on the music scene, or anything. What people are talking about are objective, undisputed, well-documented facts. The things Grappler posted are facts. The things people like myself, JD, Samsara, PG and others have posted about what happened during their personal interactions with Tate are facts. The things captured on video that show Tate acting in similar ways are facts. You can say that none of that bothers you, and you still hold Tate up on a pedestal. That's cool. That's totally your prerogative and your right. But what you can NOT do is tell others that the facts don't matter to them.
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My only point is I met them during the early days and tours and Tate was actually the nicest guy and I never saw him ever not be kind to all the fans and many times go above the call to make sure fans were made happy, MANY MANY other rockstars metal stars back then that I met were complete aholes but nobody gave a damn it was the crazy 80s, It appears Tate was driven to anger by his old bandmates and it got out of hand, but thats between grown %ss men so I dont care as nobody knows what the real dynamic was but those involved and it appears to my eye the "war" came out of the "tiffs" the wives and family had with each other that fueled a lot of hostility. I with my eyes witnessed Tates kindness so when I read stuff that hes a "bad guy" and know how many truly nasty dumb ignorant rockstars exist and I have met it bothers me that somehow people think Tates a bad guy or like that type... has anyone here witness him being a jerk? I know with my eyes I saw him make sure disabled people got good seats, that they got to meet him talk to him and have him sign stuff and shake their hands and other very kind gestures. to me Tates a good dude. I have seen him be the only one to meet then fans when others in band chose to not to and he had to be exhausted,
all my opinion and my views
EV..
re: Tate and the band
I'm not going to rehash the whole "why" behind the split. I was, unfortunately, a catalyst of getting that ball moving. Something I regret being a part of, and apologized to Tate many years ago, to which he was appreciative of the apology. Suffice it to say, there were mistakes and deliberate actions taken on both sides, and a lot of finger pointing. The culmination being Tate's violent acts backstage and on stage, and giving cause for the band to cut him loose. What happened, happened. It shouldn't have. And I am sure everyone involved feels the same way -- I assume that they wish it never got to that point. But once the ball was moving, it wasn't going to stop.
re: commentary on fan interaction with Tate
I have witnessed Geoff Tate be the nicest guy, and I have witnessed him be rude and hoiler than thou. He's just a guy. A person. Mood swings happen. Back in the day, he was a little bit different when he was by himself, as opposed to when his wife was around with him. That's just candid observation.
For what it's worth, I'm glad people have great memories of interacting with Geoff. I have great memories with him too. But just because your personal memories are great, EPICVIEW, doesn't mean others have experienced him in the same way. I've heard everything jammindude has said. From people that live in Seattle and are part of the scene. But to be fair, it must have been crazy to be Geoff Tate from 1983-1992. Always in the spotlight, always having to be "on." First because of his talent, and later because of their success. Tate was always the focal point. That changes a person, or at the very least, exacerbates negative personality traits. I'm not excusing any rude conduct, but just saying that a person's experience with Geoff could wildly differ depending on when you caught him, and what was being asked of him. When you're being pulled in 1,000 different directions, by 1,000 different people, all of whom process your reaction and words differently, there are bound to be both great and poor experiences.
I don't have the wool over my eyes. I know the personalities involved, and I remember the facts. I haven't forgotten. I remember the good interactions and the bad interactions. But is it worth it to be angry, or to actively be negative toward any of them and what they do? Nah. I just choose to support what the original members of QR do, in the forms they provide it in, and wish them all success.
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it seems that the dogs will always try to hold the panthers back.
Yeah, you'll always have people like that. And that's a shame when people try to knock other people down. But that isn't what's going on here. Not at all. What people are discussing in this thread isn't singling someone out who is at the top of their game and trying to take them down a peg. NOBODY here would dispute Tate's ability back in the '80s and early '90s, or his part of the collective influence QR has had on the music scene, or anything. What people are talking about are objective, undisputed, well-documented facts. The things Grappler posted are facts. The things people like myself, JD, Samsara, PG and others have posted about what happened during their personal interactions with Tate are facts. The things captured on video that show Tate acting in similar ways are facts. You can say that none of that bothers you, and you still hold Tate up on a pedestal. That's cool. That's totally your prerogative and your right. But what you can NOT do is tell others that the facts don't matter to them.
i totally get where you're coming from, and i apologize if i came across as overly defensive. i see some of myself in geoff and i admit that maybe those projections led to me coming up with excuses for some of his past behavior where there really are none. you're right that the facts are more important than my personal feelings and the experiences of others shouldn't be dismissed. it's a fair point and i should better learn to appreciate an artist's contributions while also acknowledging their flaws. thank you.
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While I don't have any bad experiences with Tate personally, I do recall reading somewhere (I wish I could find it, but doing a Google search yielded nothing) that when Scott Ian met QR - can't remember if it was before they opened for Metallica or if it was while they were opening for Metallica - but Scott expressed similar negative thoughts to the kind that Jammindude quoted many locals as saying.
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How Queensryche orders a coffee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6_Qfffs0Yc
The ones for Nightwish and Kamelot are also hilarious! Such a clever gimmick and that guy has quite an impressive vocal range
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How Queensryche orders a coffee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6_Qfffs0Yc
The ones for Nightwish and Kamelot are also hilarious! Such a clever gimmick and that guy has quite an impressive vocal range
I meant to post this yesterday.
The Sabaton one is awesome!!
Yeah, that’s the singer for Lords Of The Trident. The dude has some pipes. I love that band.
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How Queensryche orders a coffee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6_Qfffs0Yc
The ones for Nightwish and Kamelot are also hilarious! Such a clever gimmick and that guy has quite an impressive vocal range
and i raise my head and stare....... INTO THE EYES OF A BARISTA :metal :metal :metal :lol :lol :lol :rollin :rollin :rollin
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How Queensryche orders a coffee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6_Qfffs0Yc
The ones for Nightwish and Kamelot are also hilarious! Such a clever gimmick and that guy has quite an impressive vocal range
and i raise my head and stare....... INTO THE EYES OF A BARISTA :metal :metal :metal :lol :lol :lol :rollin :rollin :rollin
That was hilarious :lol :lol
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How Queensryche orders a coffee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6_Qfffs0Yc
The ones for Nightwish and Kamelot are also hilarious! Such a clever gimmick and that guy has quite an impressive vocal range
Haven't read this thread in ages, randomly saw this post in the Recent Posts link, and thought the Nightwish video was 16 levels of awesome!
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Not familiar with Sabaton, but that one just about had me on the floor.
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Revisiting the 2013 self-titled Queensr˙che album today. Putting aside the hot mastering, the songs really have really stood the test of time for me. There was a looseness and genuine passion in these tunes and in the playing that really resonate with me as a listener.
What spurred this is a recent performance of "Don't Look Back," one of my favorites from this album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgWM7LeWR-0&t=195s
It was really nicely done, particularly since Rockenfield and Lundgren (who recorded the track) are now replaced by Grillo and Stone, respectively.
Obviously, my biggest passion for this band is the original lineup and its catalog. But I really enjoy this album a lot. In some ways, I feel like it is the best crop of songs the TLT-era has produced. Don't get me wrong, Condition Human, The Verdict, and Digital Noise Alliance have their high points. But there's this vibe on the 2013 self-titled that just sits in a spot for me.
In retrospect, they might have played with the track order a bit (maybe put a more aggressive opener), and fleshed a few things out more, but given the time constraints they were under, it was pretty damn cool.
On a side note, the cover artist for my new book, Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997), loves the cover concept myself and Brian Naron came up with, and is getting to work on illustrating the cover. It will be a wrap-around cover, and it should look amazing once he's done with it. I'll share it as soon as it is final. Pre-orders for the book will probably be late-October, perhaps early-November. No sense doing it TOO early (it will publish in March), but I was adamant I wanted it up for pre-order this fall. Also, we just secured a photo set that will blow peoples' minds. Can't wait to share this with everyone.
With my touring history book in March 2024, Halfin's killer (but expensive) photo book coming out in November 2023, and Tate's forthcoming autobiography/memoir, there will be plenty of new Queensryche books going around. Tate mentioned a month or so ago how hard it was to write a book. Ha! Yes, yes it is. Looking forward to reading what he comes up with. I have many of those public journals he wrote on the Tribe tour saved and looked at them from time to time. It'll be cool to see what format he takes with his book.
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What that self-titled album misses is a great epic track and better production. It could have been a damn good record.
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And while its closer is a highlight it needed be at least couple minutes longer. That whole album feels rushed which while understandable at the time was a real shame.
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I went through all of the Todd records earlier this year and really enjoyed the self titled after not listening to it for a long time. The production kills it, but I love what they did on the album. Like others, I just wish some songs were a bit longer and that the album got a proper representation live. I was happy to hear 3 songs live when I saw them in 2013 (Redemption, Where Dreams go to Die, Fallout). Sadly, I've missed the tours where they broke out other songs from the album.
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QUEENSRźCHE covering ‘Rebel Yell’ Of BILLY IDOL
https://lotsofmuzik.com/queensryche-shares-music-video-for-rendition-of-billy-idols-smash-hit-rebel-yell/
:metal
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It's a decent cover. I always thought it was a bit odd the lengths that Todd goes to channel Billy Idol. And for some reason, the keyboards bother me a bit. But it's still solid and a nice little addition at the end of the album.
I have just had a really hard time getting into these last two albums, which is a shame because I really like the first two. Echoing some of the comments above about the first one, I have always felt similarly: It was a really strong effort and a terrific return to form after a string of questionable albums that culminated in D2C. If not for the "rushed" feeling of some of the songs just needing a bit more development, it would be near perfect. I put it right up there with the best of the classic run from Rage through HITNF. And I liked Condition Human even more. The run of the first 6 songs on that album is nearly flawless, and there are some real gems on the back half as well. Unfortunately, the title song is an absolute disaster as far as I'm concerned. It's obvious that they tried a bit too hard to emulate some of their earlier epics, and just got lost along the way. But despite that and some questionable lyrical choices that grate on me a bit, it's a really fantastic album, and I still reach for it regularly when I want modern QR. The last two albums just haven't connected with me very deeply, which is a bummer. I struggle to even remember anything from the prior one. I don't know if DNA is a step up from that or if I only know it better just because it is more recent.
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Meh. But excellent boobs in the front row. I'm a big Billy Idol fan, but meh.
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No way those chick's even know who the fuck Queensryche even are.
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haha thought the same, but still impressive racks, right Wolf?
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Meh. But excellent boobs in the front row. I'm a big Billy Idol fan, but meh.
That's kind of it for me too; the original is pretty killer all things considered, and what did this do to further that? I'm not seeing it.
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QUEENSRźCHE covering ‘Rebel Yell’ Of BILLY IDOL
https://lotsofmuzik.com/queensryche-shares-music-video-for-rendition-of-billy-idols-smash-hit-rebel-yell/
:metal
That’s the most un-Queensryche video I’ve seen.
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Not much interest in QR these days on here (understandable, since they are just doing one-off gigs and have done their tour), but for those interested in my new book, Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997), we just approved the cover art last night. It's actually a full wraparound cover. It borrows thematic elements from a few different artists. Specifically, the back cover will remind folks of Hugh Syme's work to a degree. The front cover is pretty dramatic. I'm really proud of it. The whole art piece was conceived of by myself and Brian Naron, who assisted me with the book. It was brought to life by our designer.
I can't share it quite yet, but it's done and approved, and I'm excited as hell to launch pre-orders. The publisher has said early November for that. It looks like we're headed into the design stage at the end of this month. I'm doing the final proof on all 419 pages of text (that is without pictures, so it'll probably be over a 500 page book) over the next week or so. So getting very close. I'll also have a very old school (honestly, completely obsolete), HTML-based website up to promote the book at www.roadstomadness.com before the book is published. Just a place to promote the book, where I'll eventually have the tour dates all republished and various imagery we ended up not using in the book. There's just a holding page there now that directs folks to our Facebook page for the latest info.
I'm a fan, I created this book for fans like me, and sitting back and doing the final edits, I'm really blown away at how much info I was able to confirm and put into this book. If you're a fan of classic Queensr˙che, I think you'll love it. I'll post again here when we drop the cover art. I need to talk with the publisher on when that may be appropriate. I'm guessing for pre-orders...
:metal
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Can't wait to see it, Brian! How does one secure a SIGNED copy?
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:tup :tup :tup
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Can't wait to see it, Brian! How does one secure a SIGNED copy?
I haven't discussed the specifics with the publisher yet, but I do know we're doing a limited edition run of hardcover, and a paperback edition. Both will be full color. 9.5" x 11.5" (or 12, I forget). The paperbacks will feature that same "soft"-like cover that the QR biography did. (We like that material.) And my guess is, we'll sign all the hardcovers on the title page inside the book. I'll probably fly up to Seattle so Naron and I can do that together. I'll know more as we get into November. We'll likely have a call soon to make sure we're all on the same page.
A lot of hard work to go with layout and image placement and all of that. But now that the text is done (aside from the final proof I am doing), and the cover is done, I can make my last small copy edits, and then get into all that design work with the designer at the end of the month. He's finishing up a biography on Metal Church (which is up for preorder now) that Naron and our friend James Beach did (I wasn't a part of that one -- too busy with this one).
Anyway, in a perfect world, P, I'd love to hand-deliver a copy to you. So, if we can make that happen, I'd love to. Happy to take a weekend with the fam and come down by you, and meet up somewhere along the way. Either way, I'll make sure your copy is personalized by me, if you'd like that. Thanks for contributing some anecdotes!
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Looking forward to this so much, Bri! :hefdaddy :metal :corn
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Thanks Mike! Gettin' closer!
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Front cover reveal of Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997) is tomorrow! I'll post it here as well for any interested. Looks like pre-orders will start about four weeks from today. The week beginning November 13 or so. Limited edition hardcover, paperback, and electronic version (most likely a Kindle file). Completely full color. More tomorrow. :metal
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You can count on me for a pre-order :tup
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Here's the announcement and front cover reveal. Hope those of you interested in the book dig it.
B
October 17, 2023
Contact:
Brian J. Heaton – brianheaton444@gmail.com
James R. Beach – nwmetalworxmusic@gmail.com
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che Book Cover Revealed
LONGVIEW, Wash. – NW Metalworx Music is proud to reveal the front cover of its upcoming book, Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997).
Imagined by author Brian J. Heaton, and initially sketched by Brian L. Naron, the striking fictional Seattle roadway scene was brought to life by designer Cyrus Wraith Walker. The cover’s concept was inspired by the works of renowned artist Hugh Syme. The entire book cover will be presented in a wraparound format, with the back imagery to be revealed at a later date.
Roads to Madness is a deep dive into all the concert dates that feature Queensr˙che’s original lineup of Chris DeGarmo, Eddie Jackson, Scott Rockenfield, Geoff Tate, and Michael Wilton. The book spans over 400 pages, and includes concert dates, verified setlists, tour history essays, fan commentary on shows, stage banter, live photos, show memorabilia imagery, and much more. The tome’s foreword was penned by Fates Warning biographer Jeff Wagner.
Roads to Madness will be published in March 2024. Pre-orders begin in mid-November 2023 at https://nwmetalworxmusic.com/. The book will be available in a variety of formats, including a limited-edition hardcover, an oversized deluxe paperback, and an electronic version. For more information, visit https://www.roadstomadness.com.
Brian J. Heaton co-wrote (with James R. Beach and Brian L. Naron), Building An Empire: The Story of Queensr˙che, the first biography of the band, which was published in 2021 by NW Metalworx Music.
NW Metalworx Music is owned by James R. Beach and Brian L. Naron. The company reissues and issues LPs and CDs of great Pacific Northwest heavy metal and hard rock bands from the
1970s-1990s, along with books that celebrate the history of the scene.
###
(https://roadstomadness.com/images/rtm-frontcover.jpg)
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Nice! At first, I was like, "What? No triryche?" Then I found it. :metalol:
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Whatever do you mean, bosk? I just see some cloud formations.
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Whatever do you mean, bosk? I just see some cloud formations.
You misspelled bat signal.
Love the cover!
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Can't wait to see it, Brian! How does one secure a SIGNED copy?
I haven't discussed the specifics with the publisher yet, but I do know we're doing a limited edition run of hardcover, and a paperback edition. Both will be full color. 9.5" x 11.5" (or 12, I forget). The paperbacks will feature that same "soft"-like cover that the QR biography did. (We like that material.) And my guess is, we'll sign all the hardcovers on the title page inside the book. I'll probably fly up to Seattle so Naron and I can do that together. I'll know more as we get into November. We'll likely have a call soon to make sure we're all on the same page.
A lot of hard work to go with layout and image placement and all of that. But now that the text is done (aside from the final proof I am doing), and the cover is done, I can make my last small copy edits, and then get into all that design work with the designer at the end of the month. He's finishing up a biography on Metal Church (which is up for preorder now) that Naron and our friend James Beach did (I wasn't a part of that one -- too busy with this one).
Anyway, in a perfect world, P, I'd love to hand-deliver a copy to you. So, if we can make that happen, I'd love to. Happy to take a weekend with the fam and come down by you, and meet up somewhere along the way. Either way, I'll make sure your copy is personalized by me, if you'd like that. Thanks for contributing some anecdotes!
Whatever works will work out. The cover looks great, BTW!
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Thank you!
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Whatever do you mean, bosk? I just see some cloud formations.
You misspelled bat signal.
I noticed that right away too! :lol
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That is one BADASS book cover! :metal
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Outstanding book cover!! :metal
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Thanks guys. Wait til you see the back cover. It's sparser, but really harkens to Hugh Syme' work. It's one big wraparound image. We're going to do posters and have them as a special bonus with the hardcover edition of the book (or at least in some sort of a bundle, we haven't decided). As for the Bat Symbol. HA! Believe it or not, I never really noticed that. Would be fitting if that reminds folks of it, given my Bat-fandom. It's all just cloud formations...
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When it comes to Batman, I might be in the minority, but I think the Michael Keaton version is the greatest Batman of all time. But great Batman cover while intentionally or not.
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When it comes to Batman, I might be in the minority, but I think the Michael Keaton version is the greatest Batman of all time. But great Batman cover while intentionally or not.
I agree with you 100%. There's no contest with any if the others IMO. Not really counting Adam West though.
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Sam, go to the post something funny thread for a QR joke.
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When it comes to Batman, I might be in the minority, but I think the Michael Keaton version is the greatest Batman of all time. But great Batman cover while intentionally or not.
I agree with you 100%. There's no contest with any if the others IMO. Not really counting Adam West though.
Adam West is the ONLY Batman.
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When it comes to Batman, I might be in the minority, but I think the Michael Keaton version is the greatest Batman of all time. But great Batman cover while intentionally or not.
I agree with you 100%. There's no contest with any if the others IMO. Not really counting Adam West though.
Adam West is the ONLY Batman.
100% fucking right.
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I saw the first Batman with Michael Keaton. I never understood the choice of him being Batman, and the movie blew chunks anyway. I didn't see any of the other ones, but why did they change actors in every movie?
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I saw the first Batman with Michael Keaton. I never understood the choice of him being Batman, and the movie blew chunks anyway. I didn't see any of the other ones, but why did they change actors in every movie?
Because they all sucked at it.
Edit: They might as well have used Geoff Tate.
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I saw the first Batman with Michael Keaton. I never understood the choice of him being Batman, and the movie blew chunks anyway. I didn't see any of the other ones, but why did they change actors in every movie?
Timmay - you're doing yourself a disservice by not checking out the Christopher Nolan trilogy that had Christian Slater as Batman. Took away all the cartoony aspects that were still present in the movies with Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney. Personally I'm not a superhero movie guy at all, but I loved these movies. At least check out The Dark Knight as I think it deserves the praise it gets, but both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises are worth watching too. Can't comment on anything since because I haven't seen them.
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I saw the first Batman with Michael Keaton. I never understood the choice of him being Batman, and the movie blew chunks anyway. I didn't see any of the other ones, but why did they change actors in every movie?
Timmay - you're doing yourself a disservice by not checking out the Christopher Nolan trilogy that had Christian Slater as Batman. Took away all the cartoony aspects that were still present in the movies with Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney. Personally I'm not a superhero movie guy at all, but I loved these movies. At least check out The Dark Knight as I think it deserves the praise it gets, but both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises are worth watching too. Can't comment on anything since because I haven't seen them.
Christian Slater? Jeez, I haven't heard that name in decades. I don't even remember him playing Batman.
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Could well have missed some ongoing joke in the thread but think meant Christian BALE?
And will add as great as that trilogy was (coulda done without the OTT Bale voice though) as an elder fan of Batman I gotta say that last one with Robert Pattinson under the cowl was surprisingly very good an defs on par with the Nolan trilogy IMO :tup
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I saw the first Batman with Michael Keaton. I never understood the choice of him being Batman, and the movie blew chunks anyway. I didn't see any of the other ones, but why did they change actors in every movie?
Because they all sucked at it.
Edit: They might as well have used Geoff Tate.
Ha! I always thought Tate looked like Michael Keaton.
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Could well have missed some ongoing joke in the thread but think meant Christian BALE?
And will add as great as that trilogy was (coulda done without the OTT Bale voice though) as an elder fan of Batman I gotta say that last one with Robert Pattinson under the cowl was surprisingly very good an defs on par with the Nolan trilogy IMO :tup
Yeah - total brain fart on my part! :facepalm:
Good to know about the Pattinson movie. :tup Will have to check it out.
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All good! My own life is full of brain farts particularly now past 50 and tbf who knows, maybe Slater could pull off a decent Bats? He's about the only one who hasn't tackled the character, so may as well give him his shot!? ;D
But yes really enjoyed the latest film and if Pattinson gives the character some growth, the sequel could be fantastic \m/
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For the record, while I have liked most of the actors who have portrayed Batman/Bruce Wayne, I felt Christian Bale got it perfect, and The Dark Knight Trilogy is unsurpassed.
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Meanwhile I'm the guy who thinks Matt Reeves nailed it in one with The Batman and that Robert Pattinson is the best Batman we've had in live action to date. :lol
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Meanwhile I'm the guy who thinks Matt Reeves nailed it in one with The Batman and that Robert Pattinson is the best Batman we've had in live action to date. :lol
And I'd argue my posts above regarding The Batman would make me your +1 ;D
That, and I can't remember how this QR thread became a Batman thread :lol
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Apparently my book cover is more "me" than I thought it was. :lol
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Hell yeah! This should be a great tour.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-to-perform-entire-debut-ep-and-the-warning-album-on-2024s-the-origins-tour
"We are thrilled to bring to you 'The Origins Tour'," says La Torre. "This will be the first time in QUEENSRźCHE's history that the EP and 'The Warning' will be performed live in their entirety. And to make this an even more stellar tour, we are so excited that our great friends and legendary metallers ARMORED SAINT will be joining us as direct support. We are all proud to bring you this touring package and we can't wait to see you on the road."
(https://assets.blabbermouth.net/media/queensrycheorigins2024.jpg)
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Interesting. I hope they release a live album from the tour.
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Should be awesome. Planning to see it twice, plus an Armored Saint headline show in-between.
I think we're planning a book signing for the QR bio, my new Roads to Madness book, and the new Metal Church biography for Saturday, March 30, in Seattle, so perfect timing.
Great bill. Such a good pairing. Armored Saint is always awesome. And I am glad to see QR playing these two releases in their entirety. On one hand, I feel this lineup of QR should focus more on the TLT era stuff. And they did, before TLT got ill, on the last tour (and even afterward, they did). But now they are doing all of The Warning to celebrate the 40th anniversary of that album, and then all of the EP?! Yes, please. Should be an epic night of old school metal greatness.
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The "Origins" tour, featuring only two of the five members who made the music on the EP and Warning. This would be cool if it were the classic lineup doing it, but this lineup? No thanks.
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The "Origins" tour, featuring only two of the five members who made the music on the EP and Warning. This would be cool if it were the classic lineup doing it, but this lineup? No thanks.
This is a Saturday night in Worcester so it may work, but if I go, I'm probably leaving after Armored Saint.
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The "Origins" tour, featuring only two of the five members who made the music on the EP and Warning. This would be cool if it were the classic lineup doing it, but this lineup? No thanks.
Here's my take. DeGarmo has sadly been gone for a long time. Tate has been gone for a decade. And obviously, there is the Rockenfield situation. All of that is unfortunate. Would I love to see the ORIGINAL band, my favorite musical act of all-time, do this instead? OF COURSE. But that's not going to happen.
Michael and Ed know the EP and The Warning are special. They want to celebrate them (its the 40th anniversary of The Warning). If you're a fan of these releases, this is as close as you're gonna get. For me, playing these two releases, and bringing the mighty Armored Saint on tour, is enough for me to want to see it. If you (or anyone) feel(s) differently, totally cool. But as a fan of this music, this package of bands and the material being played have me excited for an old school night of metal.
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Oh man I hope they bring it to Europe at some point :o
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Not interested in seeing this. Remaster The Warning already.
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Not interested in seeing this. Remaster The Warning already.
It’s been remastered. Did you mean remix? (In which case I agree with you)
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The fact that they played a really solid Todd era tour makes me so much more open to seeing a classics tour. I love balance! I just hope they keep playing their new stuff in the future - their new albums have been such a fucking joy.
Once I see the Classics Tour, I will have seen five Queensryche albums in their entirety between QR live and Geoff Tate!
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Not interested in seeing this. Remaster The Warning already.
It’s been remastered. Did you mean remix? (In which case I agree with you)
I totally did.
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For those QR fans who listen to podcasts, I was on the latest episode of I Remember Now: The Queensryche Podcast. They kindly had me on to discuss the QR bio I helped write, Building An Empire, which published two years ago, and later on in the pod, I give a preview of my new book, Roads to Madness, due in March 2024, and what to expect in it.
https://iremembernowpodcast.com/episode-16-building-an-empire-on-the-roads-to-madness/
It's also available on Spotify, and everywhere folks get their podcasts.
Fun chat with a couple of lifelong QR fans. If you dig Queensryche, it's worth going back into the library for past episodes.
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For those QR fans who listen to podcasts, I was on the latest episode of I Remember Now: The Queensryche Podcast. They kindly had me on to discuss the QR bio I helped write, Building An Empire, which published two years ago, and later on in the pod, I give a preview of my new book, Roads to Madness, due in March 2024, and what to expect in it.
https://iremembernowpodcast.com/episode-16-building-an-empire-on-the-roads-to-madness/
It's also available on Spotify, and everywhere folks get their podcasts.
Fun chat with a couple of lifelong QR fans. If you dig Queensryche, it's worth going back into the library for past episodes.
Nice. I will definitely give that a listen.
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I wonder if they'll perform The Warning in its intended running order? :biggrin:
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I wonder if they'll perform The Warning in its intended running order? :biggrin:
:lol
Doubtful. But one can dream... :biggrin: :metal
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Pre-sale codes:
ORIGINS
PULSE
STG (for Seattle)
Just FYI for folks wanting to get tix early.
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For those QR fans who listen to podcasts, I was on the latest episode of I Remember Now: The Queensryche Podcast. They kindly had me on to discuss the QR bio I helped write, Building An Empire, which published two years ago, and later on in the pod, I give a preview of my new book, Roads to Madness, due in March 2024, and what to expect in it.
https://iremembernowpodcast.com/episode-16-building-an-empire-on-the-roads-to-madness/
It's also available on Spotify, and everywhere folks get their podcasts.
Fun chat with a couple of lifelong QR fans. If you dig Queensryche, it's worth going back into the library for past episodes.
That's awesome, I'll give it a listen today :tup
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They're playing Toad's in New Haven; I don't have a ton of interest in the Todd-era QR, but to see the band in a 700 seat club, with great pizza next door, might be too much. I'd dig seeing Armored Saint as well.
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That'd be a great place to see them. I got to see DT there back on the 1st leg of the Touring Into Infinity tour. Awesome show!
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Skipping this tour for now and hoping they book a date that is easier for me to get to or on a weekend - the band's Facebook page was alluding to potential future dates, so we'll see. The only date in Northern Illinois is Rockford, which I just don't feel like driving to on a Thursday night. It's just too hard to get out with younger kids. If they were teens and didn't care if I was home at bedtime, it would be so much easier to see shows. It's always my excuse, but I'm just becoming more selective with concerts as I get older and preferring to be at home with them.
The prices of the tickets looked good though, only $40 for floor sections in the theater.
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I'm not crazy about the tour because I'd rather them do TLT Era material and I'm not a huge fan of QR generally... but the tour is coming locally and I've never seen Armored Saint. I put it on my calendar. Same venue when I saw them in 2020.
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Armored Saint is worth the price of admission alone. old school metal, John Bush sounds amazing, and they always put on a good show.
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Yes Armored Saint kicks ass :metal :metal
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Press release...
Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che Available For Pre-Order!
LONGVIEW, Wash. – Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997) is now available for pre-order at https://nwmetalworxmusic.com. The book will be published in March 2024.
Queensr˙che is one of the pioneers of progressive heavy metal. Roads to Madness covers the band’s beginnings in the 1980s as an opening act for titans such as Ronnie James Dio and Metallica, to Queensr˙che’s heralded days as a headliner in arenas and amphitheaters throughout the 1990s. The book is a deep dive into all the concert dates that feature Queensr˙che’s original lineup of Chris DeGarmo, Eddie Jackson, Scott Rockenfield, Geoff Tate, and Michael Wilton.
The oversized tome spans over 450 pages, and includes verified setlists, tour history essays, fan commentary on shows, stage banter, live photos, show memorabilia imagery, and much more.
Three versions of the book are available:
1. A full color, limited hardcover edition, signed by the authors, featuring a glossy dust jacket and an 11x17 poster of the front cover. Only 200 copies of this edition are available. ($74.95 pre-order price.)
2. A full color, standard paperback edition. ($49.95 pre-order price.)
3. A full color, electronic edition as a high resolution .pdf. ($14.95.)
Roads to Madness was authored by Queensr˙che biographer and historian Brian J. Heaton, and Pacific Northwest metal music archivist Brian L. Naron. The duo previously collaborated with James R. Beach to write Building An Empire: The Story Of Queensr˙che, which was published in October 2021.
For more information, and to order, visit https://roadstomadness.com/book.html
Thanks to everyone at DTF who supports my books on QR. From kind words to purchases, it is all very much appreciated.
Happy Thanksgiving to my fellow U.S. folks.
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^AWESOME, Bri!
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Thanks, Mike!
Thanks to everyone who has pre-ordered the book so far. A couple of frequently asked questions popped up, so here are the answers.
1. What does "oversized" mean?
A. 8.5x11. A normal hardcover novel or biography is typically around 6x9 (That's what Building An Empire: The Story Of Queensr˙che is). So Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che is bigger overall.
2. Is this "authorized" by the band?
A. It isn't an official book by Queensryche. Just like Building An Empire, the band was told about the project. One band member was helpful in clarifying information and liked the idea overall. All five original members will be given a copy, along with all the live show recordings I used to pull information from.
3. Will this be on Amazon?
A. Yes, once it is released. I won't bore you with the details, but it's easier to set up the book for sale on Amazon once it is actually available, as opposed to pre-order. Roads to Madness is being published through an independent, so it makes a lot more administrative sense to just wait to put it on Amazon once we have the books in-hand.
4. Why should I pre-order?
A. As mentioned above, this is coming out via an independent label/publisher. Long story short, we're paying thousands of our own money to get this book produced. If you pre-order, it helps fund the project independently of my own wallet. 🤣 Plus, you get a price break and a free poster (for hardcover purchases). Please consider pre-ordering and support small business. Bottom line, your pre-order helps ensure this project breaks even. Trust me, I can't quit my day job for this.
Hope those were helpful!
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I listened to Empire last night. This has to be one of the best rock records ever made. Period. It has aged phenomenally well. The sonic values are among the top 5 all time albums I own and every single song is either a 9.5 or a 10. It also scores points because when my daughter was just a baby girl, I had a routine of carrying her and listening to Silent Lucidity. It was sometimes the only way I could get her to fall asleep.
They captured lightning in a bottle on this one. Astoundingly fantastic album!
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It definitely sounds amazing.
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I listened to Empire last night. This has to be one of the best rock records ever made. Period. It has aged phenomenally well. The sonic values are among the top 5 all time albums I own and every single song is either a 9.5 or a 10. It also scores points because when my daughter was just a baby girl, I had a routine of carrying her and listening to Silent Lucidity. It was sometimes the only way I could get her to fall asleep.
They captured lightning in a bottle on this one. Astoundingly fantastic album!
For sure. I love it. Although I've previously found nitpicks with it, I wouldn't change anything on it at this stage. Classic
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Empire really encompass' the sound and vibe of the early 90's.
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I've always considered Empire and Promised Land to be the best sounding QR albums. Warm, big, enveloping. In start contrast to the records before those, and after.
As time has moved on, Empire is always something I go back to as a familiar friend. My favorites haven't changed ("Anybody Listening?," "Empire"), and I love other records more, song and style-wise (Operation: Mindcrime, The Warning in the original sequence) but there are very few records out there in the history of hard rock and metal that I think sound as impressive as Empire.
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Looks like the lawyers are the only ones who won on this one... :facepalm:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/scott-rockenfield-appears-to-have-settled-his-legal-battle-with-fellow-original-queensryche-members
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Safe bet that there is no chance of a reunion.
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Looks like the lawyers are the only ones who won on this one... :facepalm:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/scott-rockenfield-appears-to-have-settled-his-legal-battle-with-fellow-original-queensryche-members
Well played to the comment below the article : "brother sues brother for the profit of another" :lol
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Lol, outstanding!
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Nice! :lol
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A little Roads to Madness book update for those interested.
I just finished doing the image placement document, which identifies each photo in the book and where they will be placed for the designer.
In just text form, the manuscript is about 340 pages of text... I just added 117 pages of full-page imagery.
And that does NOT count things like ticket stubs and smaller photos that run along with the concert listings. So we're going to be probably around 500+ pages. Remember, this isn't a novel-sized book. It's 8.5x11. So it's big!
So excited to get this out there. The designer is going to start work on the image placement and final text edits late next week, and looks like we'll probably get something to do a final edit and approval in mid-late January. Then goes to the printer in early February, and we should be all set for the March release.
Really appreciate the interest from QR fans here. If you can, please pre-order. This is an independent production. So, pre-orders sort of dictate how much we decide to print. I know it's tough before the holidays, but even pre-ordering in January is helpful for those who can. Whether it is the paperback or the hardcover, every pre-order helps. Oh, and I really suggest getting an actual book. The e-book will be a .pdf, but it's not the same feel. This is something you want to put in your den or music room and pull out and flip through. It's that kind of collectible.
You can order here: https://nwmetalworxmusic.com/collections/1262739-books-by-nw-metalworx-music
It WILL be on Amazon, but not until after the release. (Likely some time in late-March/early-April.)
I'm hoping to share some page samples with everyone in mid-January as we approve things. So thrilled this is coming together like I envisioned.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone.
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Just saw the Blabermouth story about your book.
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Just saw the Blabermouth story about your book.
:tup :tup :tup
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That's super cool!
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Just saw the Blabermouth story about your book.
That's super cool!
:tup :tup :tup
Thanks guys. I saw it too. Stoked. Here's the link:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/new-queensryche-book-roads-to-madness-the-touring-history-of-queensryche-1981-1997-due-in-march
A couple of the Sirius XM guys now know of it as well, so hoping for a couple of on-air mentions at some point. Fingers crossed. I hate being a "filthy" salesman (all respect to those who do it for a living), but that's a part of the whole author thing, particularly on an independent publisher. Really grateful to Blabbermouth for picking it up.
Hope it drives more pre-sales.
The designer began work on the book's photo layout and my second round of text edits a few days ago. So hoping to see something in the next week or so. Thinking it'll hit the printer in early February, and should be out by the third week of march. I'm hoping for Friday, March 15.
I'll have sample pages and all that good stuff available probably the first week in February, once I approve everything and get it sent to the printer.
Happy New Year!
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For those of you interested in the book, we're getting closer. Today I looked at Chapter 4 (RFO Tour) from an image placement and layout perspective. Sent some tweaks in to the designer, and we're onto Chapter 5 tomorrow/Thursday.
I uploaded a couple of screenshots of interior pages I was looking at the other day. You can check them out at facebook.com/roadstomadnessbook. The full update is there. A smaller update is on the Twitter (X) page at twitter.com/queensrychebook.
What's really cool about the Rage chapter I was just looking at are the photo sets. We have two sets of professional photos for that chapter. Some that folks have seen before, candid ones that haven't made the rounds quite as much, and then an incredible black and white set at the end of the chapter that most people haven't seen. Great live action captures. And for people who dig quirky things, I have a scan of the press release that QR was opening for Bon Jovi! :lol And ticket stubs from that tour to boot! Ha!
Anyway, check out the socials above for more. And folks, if you are planning to get a copy, I'd appreciate the pre-order. I know spending money can be tough when you don't get what you pay for until a few months later, but it does help finance the printing. This is truly an independent effort, being funded by me, personally, along with the publisher in a joint effort. Given our progress, it should be out in late-March with shipping by early-April. It could be sooner. I know the publisher really wants to have it in-hand by late-March for a big book signing event they have in the works (not just for my books, but the Metal Church bio they just did, and some of the records they just put out). So that's the timeline. But any pre-orders really help make this project move forward so that the printer gets fully paid ahead of time.
Thanks for your interest! :metal
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p.s. regarding the upcoming "Origins" tour, I did see a post or a reply from QR's social media to a fan that they are just performing the EP/The Warning. That's the entirety of the set. No other tracks. Whether that changes or not, I have no idea, but for those planning to see the tour, that's apparently all they are doing. Just those two releases.
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One of my joys as a music fan is eventually seeing a band perform every song from a given album. This is a chance to see two rarities in their entirety, so I might be stopping by Toads Place in March.
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Picked up (2003) The Warning remaster today, only ever had the OG CD from many years ago.
I was pleasantly surprised at how good the sounds is and the songs have aged quite well.
Haven't listened to this in at least 25 years, will give it a few spins to fully reacquaint myself with it.
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Picked up (2003) The Warning remaster today, only ever had the OG CD from many years ago.
I was pleasantly surprised at how good the sounds is and the songs have aged quite well.
Haven't listened to this in at least 25 years, will give it a few spins to fully reacquaint myself with it.
The Warning has always been weird for me. As a young QR fan in the late-80s, when I first heard it, I honestly didn't get it. It sounded weird and not like the band I fell in love with on Rage, but primarily Mindcrime. But after a while, songs poked through, namely Roads to Madness, NM 156, and Take Hold of the Flame. As the years went on though, I loved the songs more. The key moment was the tracklist order though. Once I discovered what it was meant to be, and resequenced that, the album took on a whole different vibe. It was a huge A HA moment for me as a fan. With the originally intended running order, The Warning vaulted into my #2 spot behind Operation: Mindcrime. There's just something about the conceptual nature of that record, and NM 156 and Roads being at the beginning and the end, respectively, and it being a circular thing, where it just explodes to me.
As a kid, it might have flown over my head. But now I just shake my head how incredible The Warning was, particularly as a band's debut album. Had it been released as intended, I'm not sure how better or worse the album might have done, but man, what an incredible debut.
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On the book front, closing in on the end here with Roads to Madness. We're going to be just shy of 600 full color pages. That's almost 150 more than we originally marketed the book as. Today I'm doing the image layout and basic edits of the last 90 pages of the book (Chapter 8, the epilogue, and appendix materials). Then it's on to a final proof of the whole thing. I also just wrote the back text for the dustjacket and the text for the flaps of the dustjacket too.
Really excited.
Please folks, if you haven't pre-ordered and are planning to get the hardcover, make the decision to pre-order NOW (see links below). The hardcovers ARE going to sell out. They are limited to 200, and we're well past the mid-way point on pre-sales of those. Trust me, the hardcover is the way to go. The paperback will be awesome too. Same book, it's still all in color, etc., but the hardcover, for 20-something bucks more, it's just such a great coffee table book.
Hardcover - https://nwmetalworxmusic.com/collections/1262739-books-by-nw-metalworx-music/products/36680701-roads-to-madness-the-touring-history-of-queensryche-1981-1997-by-brian-j
Paperback - https://nwmetalworxmusic.com/collections/1262739-books-by-nw-metalworx-music/products/36680692-roads-to-madness-the-touring-history-of-queensryche-1981-1997-by-brian-j
As for release date and all that, the paperbacks should ship around the first week of April. The hardcovers may be a couple weeks later, only because I need to fly up to Seattle once they are in, so Naron and I can sign them (as we promised they'd be numbered and signed). Getting up to Seattle on a weekend Naron and I are both free, can be tricky. I just didn't want to do the stick-in signing sheets. We did that on the QR bio, and I felt that was cheap. If an author signs a book, he or she should sign the actual book, not a stick in book plate. I get it the ease of the latter, but...it's less personal.
So excited to get this into folks' hands. I hope some of the dwindling numbers of QR fans here on DTF pick it up. I really think people are going to love it. The proofs I've been looking at - it's exactly what I envisioned. I couldn't be happier.
:metal
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Roads to Madness is FINISHED. Clocks in at 594 pages. The design is fully finalized and ready for the printer. Promo versions (electronic) have been sent to some media members, and will continue to be throughout March.
We need to select a printer in the next few weeks and get this bad boy pressed. But if you're a Queensryche fan, this book is a MUST. And I'm not just saying that because I want sales (trust me, I am losing money on this project, not making any). I'm a huge fan of the OG lineup of Queensryche. My favorite musical act of all time. This is the book I wish I had in the 90s.
A word about the pre-order. If you have not pre-ordered, and you're waiting until the printed books are in-hand to order, you really shouldn't. We severely underestimated the cost (we were all lined up with a printer, and they informed us the paper we wanted was discontinued). Once we agree on a printer, we're likely going to ramp up the cost of both editions by $25 or $30. Remember, this is a coffee table book - oversized at 8.5x11 and a collectible. It's not a novel or biography you read once and put away. It's a collectible that sits in your music room or den and is a conversation piece you use as a reference guide. An art book, almost.
So get in NOW while the pre-order price is in place. It's an absolute STEAL. I can easily see the hardcover going up to 99.99, and the paperback going to 74.95 in the next few weeks. Get in NOW while the prices are still what they are.
Looking forward to reading the reviews of the book. I sent it out to a few guys who wanted it from Sirius XM Radio, some podcasts, and some rock websites. So hoping for some good stuff from them over the next few weeks.
I'm not a songwriter, but I sorta feel like I imagine they feel - I'm spent. I poured everything I could into making this the absolute pinnacle of a book on Queensr˙che. And while I haven't seen a lot of response to these posts, I hope those of you that are following really dig the book. It's everything that the 20-year-old me would have wanted from his favorite band. I'm really proud of it. :metal
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Roads to Madness is FINISHED. Clocks in at 594 pages. The design is fully finalized and ready for the printer.
So get in NOW while the pre-order price is in place. It's an absolute STEAL. I can easily see the hardcover going up to 99.99, and the paperback going to 74.95 in the next few weeks. Get in NOW while the prices are still what they are.
Ordered! Can't wait! :metal :corn
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Thank you Mike!
I'll be posting screenshots of sample spread pages throughout March, starting next week. I won't share the good stuff (I don't want to spoil all the awesome full page, great live color concert shots), but enough so people can get an idea of what it looks like. And with any luck, a review or two will pop up in the next week or so.
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:tup
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Roads to Madness has finally been authorized to head to the printer! It should be uploaded in the next day or so, and then the job will likely start next week. So for those of you who pre-ordered, that likely means the publisher will have them in-hand in late-April/early-May!
Really great timing with the current QR's celebration and tour of the EP and The Warning. I didn't plan it like that, but it happened!
The pre-order period goes through Sunday, April 14. You can get the hardcover for $74.95, and the paperback for 49.95. Starting on Monday, April 15, however, the prices go to $99.95 and $59.95, respectively. We based the early pre-order on a 450-page book, and it ended up at just about 600 pages. Costs of paper and ink went up too. So, if you're planning to order the book, DO IT NOW, and avoid the jump up in price on 4/15. The limited edition hardcover (200) WILL sell out, likely before the pre-order period is over. So get in on it.
Thanks to any of you who have supported the project. I've been doing some interviews with various podcasts, and sent some digital promo copies to folks for some reviews. I'm hoping we'll start to get some traction on them soon.
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Nice footage of the new tour:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=754&v=y85OFliJg7U&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fblabbermouth.net%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo
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For those interested, I was a guest on the Progressive Palaver podcast last week, talking about Roads to Madness: The Touring History of Queensr˙che (1981-1997). They just uploaded the pod last night.
You can get Progressive Palaver wherever you get podcasts (iTunes, etc.), but here is the Spotify link:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/74WCadrRKdRrkGzyjSvY00?si=5zjLz1L-RemBG8UzEaAOaA
We talk about the book's origins, the contents, and general QR history.
You can pre-order the book here (out late next month!): https://nwmetalworxmusic.com/collections/1262739-books-by-nw-metalworx-music
:metal
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That's awesome, I'll give it a listen today.
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Listening to the podcast and it was fantastic, but man the host needs to edit out his breathing.
(https://i.imgur.com/r0h7Ykd.png)
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I stumbled across this interview with Geoff from 2000. What a terrific and revealing interview. It covers everything from the success of Empire and how it changed them to Chris leaving and how the band's dynamic changed after he left.
Link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ayF607URdAk&t=328s&pp=ygUaR2VvZmYgdGF0dGUgMjAwMCBpbnRlcnZpZXc%3D
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I stumbled across this interview with Geoff from 2000. What a terrific and revealing interview. It covers everything from the success of Empire and how it changed them to Chris leaving and how the band's dynamic changed after he left.
Link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ayF607URdAk&t=328s&pp=ygUaR2VvZmYgdGF0dGUgMjAwMCBpbnRlcnZpZXc%3D
Yep great interview \m/
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Listening to HITNF from start to finish for the first time in many years. "Hit the Black" is such a killer song and would've been a better choice for an opener in my opinion. I always felt "Sign of the Times" was a bit of a mediocre mid-tempo song and gets the album off to a slow start. But "Hit the Black" would've busted the doors open. It would've been a great first single too. I think it would've done well on the radio.
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I remember Sign of the Times being on Chicago's rock radio stations when the album came out. At the time, I was familiar with the hit songs on Empire, but hadn't become a big fan of the band yet. A kid in my gym class brought HITNF into class for the teacher to play on the stereo while we were running on the indoor track and that song sounded familiar.
But yeah, Hit the Black and Reach are the two most rocking songs on that album.
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My personal favorite from the album is Some People Fly. But I like You, Reach and sp00L as well.
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Sign Of The Times
Cuckoo's Nest
Some People Fly
Saved
You
Spool
Hit The Black
Chasing Blue Sky
As it is I like it but those songs I think are good enough to have been up there with their best. I mean not Mindcrime Rage kinda best but up there with some their best nonetheless ;D
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HITNF isn't that bad. Had it been cut down to eleven songs, it would have been pretty good, although different. Oh, and it should have had a better sound.
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I dust it off every so often wondering if I will change my opinion of it but no, it’s still a poor album. A few decent songs, stifled by shit production and mix.
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To me, Hit The Black is by far the standout track on the album. I also love Anytime/Anywhere.
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Starts strong with Sign Of The Times and ends strong with spOOl, and has a lot of depressingly mediocre songs in between.
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Sign of the Times, You and Hit the Black is about it for me from HITNF.
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Love HITNF
I might be insane but I like most of F U also : )
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You, Hit the Black and Spool are great rock songs. If HITNF was only 10 songs or so, it would be a lot better. Chasing Blue Sky is also great.
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Listening to HITNF from start to finish for the first time in many years. "Hit the Black" is such a killer song and would've been a better choice for an opener in my opinion. I always felt "Sign of the Times" was a bit of a mediocre mid-tempo song and gets the album off to a slow start. But "Hit the Black" would've busted the doors open. It would've been a great first single too. I think it would've done well on the radio.
I agree on "Hit the Black." It's one of my favorites on the record. Probably second favorite after "spOOL."
HITNF isn't that bad. Had it been cut down to eleven songs, it would have been pretty good, although different. Oh, and it should have had a better sound.
I agree on this. I think that QR's experiment with HITNF is a good one. If you follow the band's songwriting arc, HITNF was the natural place to go after PL. They did not repeat themselves in the original form. Not ever. So for me, HITNF, as wide-eyed as I was when I first heard it, it made sense.
As the years have gone on, I've really appreciated Hear in the Now Frontier more and more. The guitar work is TREMENDOUS on the album. I mean, listen to the outro solo of "Hero." Listen to Whip absolutely go bonkers at the end of "spOOL" (it's buried in the mix). The record had a ton of potential. It would have gone Gold had EMI not gone belly up. "Sign of the Times" and "You" were doing very well on rock radio until EMI folded.
This is in the new book, but people have to remember how different the industry was in 1997. If you didn't have a label putting pressure on radio stations, you weren't getting played. If you didn't have label, you weren't getting tour support money. Remember, it's not like now, where bands really self-finance all their tours. Back then most bands got advances from the label to tour, and paid it back. And if your label goes belly up a month after your record is released, it's not going to do well.
I love Hear in the Now Frontier. I'm not saying I think it's one of QR's best albums. But I love it for what it is. A great experiment. Queensryche taking stock of what Soundgarden did on Down on the Upside, and capturing some of what was popular in the mainstream, and trying it. It worked for Empire. It WOULD HAVE worked on HITNF had the label been solvent. I really dig the record.
My top-5 from it:
spOOL
Hit the Black
The Voice Inside
Reach
You
I interviewed Toby Wright two years ago about his recording and mixing the album for its 25th anniversary. He didn't revisit the album prior to the interview, but he did provide a little bit more insight into how they tracked things. Check it out here:
https://roadstomadness.com/interviews/01-tw-bh-2022.pdf
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Love HITNF
I might be insane but I like most of F U also : )
Yes. :lol
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Wolfster is a major FU fan.
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Frequency Unknown could have been way, way better. They needed more time, and it was rushed. Everyone involved thought it was going to be a Tate solo record until he came in with the ridiculous artwork, and then the time crunch started.
In my mind, even though it says "Queensryche," to me, it's GT solo. Some good tunes in there too.
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When it comes to bands I like and I'm familiar with, I don't think I've heard a worse album in my lifetime. ;D
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Yes. :lol
LOL ... I like it because to me it was a snapshot of that moment. I find it shocking Tate was able to put it together so quickly and I do like the emotion on it I hate what QR is doing with the EP Warning tour as its going backwards and living off Tate and Chris's art ..
but thats just me.. I KNOW I am the minority
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LOL ... I like it because to me it was a snapshot of that moment. I find it shocking Tate was able to put it together so quickly and I do like the emotion on it I hate what QR is doing with the EP Warning tour as its going backwards and living of Tate and Chris's art.
but thats just me.. I KNOW I am the minority
Michael Wilton co-wrote 5 songs and is solely credited for Deliverance. 6 out of 9 songs on The Warning that he helped write. On the EP, he wrote 2 out of 4 songs.
I can understand your point since Geoff and Chris are so revered, but they held off on doing this for 12 years, given that they and Geoff now have played the full Mindcrime album relentlessly, and Geoff has played RFO and Empire in full as well. They're touring on two records that Geoff hasn't touched much with his solo band.
And I'm not a staunch defender of TLT or the current lineup in the slightest - they tend to aggravate me all the time when it comes to live representation of material, despite the fact that I enjoy the new music.
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HITNF is my biggest musical disappointment, ever. I still remember taking the bus after my afternoon IT course to buy the record the day it was released, I couldn't believe how bad I thought it was on the first listens. I don't care for the musical "vision" around a disc if the songs aren't there, melodies are weak, Tate's voice is ruined, the production is very low-value for QR standards... sPOOL and You are good songs, but that's it. Except for some of Pearl Jam albums, I never was into grunge/alternative hard rock, that may be the reason. Promised Land, on the contrary, is still pure gold to my ears, almost 30 years after.
EDIT : At this time I was into Savatage, and with the piano/keys on Lady Jane/Someone Else, I was hoping they would go into that direction.
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Michael Wilton co-wrote 5 songs and is solely credited for Deliverance. 6 out of 9 songs on The Warning that he helped write. On the EP, he wrote 2 out of 4 songs.
I can understand your point since Geoff and Chris are so revered, but they held off on doing this for 12 years, given that they and Geoff now have played the full Mindcrime album relentlessly, and Geoff has played RFO and Empire in full as well. They're touring on two records that Geoff hasn't touched much with his solo band.
And I'm not a staunch defender of TLT or the current lineup in the slightest - they tend to aggravate me all the time when it comes to live representation of material, despite the fact that I enjoy the new music.
good post bro... I have my view on why Wilton got those writing credits, his inability to write a song out of QR or on his own or a complete song confirms to me my view. but its so long ago its not worth going down that path again here as its long ago I dont follow the current QR . has he written a complete song with the current lineup? Ive always been disappointed with Wilton to be honest post Chris leaving, I did like him on a personal level .. nice enough fella for sure
I dont want Geoff to go backwards either., he can sprinkle in some oldies that the fans demand. I feel for Geoff he cant seem to please everyone.. if he doesnt sing the old stuff fans will crush him that he cant do it anymore and at his age anything he gives is sorta a gift.I like that Geoff likes to take chances and do slow ballads and unique stuff like he did on his solo stuff .
I saw some recent Youtubes of Geoff and I thought he sounded very good and his band had a full sound to them, I dont think they ever get back together
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FWIW, the history of QR and songwriting is very nuanced.
In the early days, Wilton had a bit of a head start on DeGarmo. Wilton would write some cool riffs, put together some basic arrangements, and they'd go with that. Particularly on those EP tracks (which were written without Tate, for the most part), and then with The Warning, Chris started coming along more quickly as a writer, with Tate's penchant for prog pushing them in directions. As the years went on, DeGarmo started really becoming a complete songwriter, whereas Wilton sort of stayed in with his strengths - coming up with cool riffs and parts. For years, DeGarmo would help arrange those parts, and at times, allegedly not even take credit for doing that arrangement. Chris naturally became the main songwriter in the band. As someone once told me who was connected with them -- if you're Tate, are you going to gravitate toward the music writer who has complete song ideas? Or are you going to gravitate to the songwriter who just has a part or two? The answer is obvious.
So yes, Wilton is credited on a large amount of the EP and The Warning. He had some great songs, great solos, etc. But as QR evolved, Whip just focused on what he did best. Doesn't mean he's not a good songwriter. Of course he is. But I don't think he evolved as much as Chris did. At least not looking back at the catalog. If you look at the records with TLT, you can see Wilton is very involved again. But they made it a point of being way more collaborative. Also, unlike Tate, TLT can play guitar decently enough to write songs on his own and does. That helps when you're working with a guy like Wilton. If Whip has a killer riff, but not sure what to do with it, Tate couldn't make that into something (see "Murderer?" from OPMC II). BUT, today, La Torre CAN and has done that. And songs like that are credited as La Torre/Wilton.
To be frank, Queensryche is a much, much different entity than it was. It's much more collaborative now in terms of writing. La Torre/Jackson/Wilton are the writers, and when your singer is a guitarist and drummer, it makes it that much easier for a guitarist to get the singer to adapt to a cool part...because the singer can then take that guitar part and build it into something. Whereas when Tate was in the band, if Wilton came at him with a cool riff, that's cool, but Tate can't do anything with it musically to make it something to sing over.
That example of "Murderer?" is perfect. Bad ass metal riff. Tate loved it. But that's all Wilton had. Tate loved it so much he asked Jason Slater to make it something he could sing over. So Slater took it, and arranged it into an actual song.
That situation no longer exists, because the singer now is La Torre, who can take a cool riff from Wilton, and then write his own musical parts to sing over.
So all the talk about Wilton writing things -- he has, and does write cool stuff. But in the early days (EP) it was just very basic. DeGarmo was, IMO, the arranger to take Wilton's riffs and make them into something Tate could write over. It was the same when Kelly Gray was in the band, and same again when Slater was doing the writing. Nowadays, it's easier, because La Torre has abilities as music writer that Tate doesn't have.
HITNF is my biggest musical disappointment, ever. I still remember taking the bus after my afternoon IT course to buy the record the day it was released, I couldn't believe how bad I thought it was on the first listens. I don't care for the musical "vision" around a disc if the songs aren't there, melodies are weak, Tate's voice is ruined, the production is very low-value for QR standards... sPOOL and You are good songs, but that's it. Except for some of Pearl Jam albums, I never was into grunge/alternative hard rock, that may be the reason. Promised Land, on the contrary, is still pure gold to my ears, almost 30 years after.
EDIT : At this time I was into Savatage, and with the piano/keys on Lady Jane/Someone Else, I was hoping they would go into that direction.
Tates differ. I didn't "get" HITNF right away either. I got an advance cassette copy from a friend in...I want to say around mid-February 1997, about six weeks before the record dropped. I didn't get it. When the album got released and I bought the CD, I liked some, but didn't understand. But here we are, 27 years later, and year after year, I've gotten what they were trying to do more and more. Not overthink it, go off the cuff, and write a record more spontaneously. I think it's very cool. Too much filler, but cool. When DeGarmo returned for "Open," "Desert Dance," "Falling Behind," "Art of Life," "Doing Fine," and "Justified" from Tribe, you can hear the songs start to go a different direction again. Queensryche was the ultimate hard rock/heavy metal chameleon band back then.
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HITNF is my biggest musical disappointment, ever. I still remember taking the bus after my afternoon IT course to buy the record the day it was released, I couldn't believe how bad I thought it was on the first listens. I don't care for the musical "vision" around a disc if the songs aren't there, melodies are weak, Tate's voice is ruined, the production is very low-value for QR standards... sPOOL and You are good songs, but that's it.
That's pretty much how I responded to HITNF too.
Tates differ.
Yep ;D
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I was definitely disappointed in HITNF, but at least I could see what they were going for. The same cannot be said for their previous album.
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I was definitely disappointed in HITNF, but at least I could see what they were going for. The same cannot be said for their previous album.
You mean their masterpiece?
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Wolfster is a major FU fan.
Uh........yeah, sure am. :lol
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FWIW, the history of QR and songwriting is very nuanced.
In the early days, Wilton had a bit of a head start on DeGarmo. Wilton would write some cool riffs, put together some basic arrangements, and they'd go with that. Particularly on those EP tracks (which were written without Tate, for the most part), and then with The Warning, Chris started coming along more quickly as a writer, with Tate's penchant for prog pushing them in directions. As the years went on, DeGarmo started really becoming a complete songwriter, whereas Wilton sort of stayed in with his strengths - coming up with cool riffs and parts. For years, DeGarmo would help arrange those parts, and at times, allegedly not even take credit for doing that arrangement. Chris naturally became the main songwriter in the band. As someone once told me who was connected with them -- if you're Tate, are you going to gravitate toward the music writer who has complete song ideas? Or are you going to gravitate to the songwriter who just has a part or two? The answer is obvious.
So yes, Wilton is credited on a large amount of the EP and The Warning. He had some great songs, great solos, etc. But as QR evolved, Whip just focused on what he did best. Doesn't mean he's not a good songwriter. Of course he is. But I don't think he evolved as much as Chris did. At least not looking back at the catalog. If you look at the records with TLT, you can see Wilton is very involved again. But they made it a point of being way more collaborative. Also, unlike Tate, TLT can play guitar decently enough to write songs on his own and does. That helps when you're working with a guy like Wilton. If Whip has a killer riff, but not sure what to do with it, Tate couldn't make that into something (see "Murderer?" from OPMC II). BUT, today, La Torre CAN and has done that. And songs like that are credited as La Torre/Wilton.
To be frank, Queensryche is a much, much different entity than it was. It's much more collaborative now in terms of writing. La Torre/Jackson/Wilton are the writers, and when your singer is a guitarist and drummer, it makes it that much easier for a guitarist to get the singer to adapt to a cool part...because the singer can then take that guitar part and build it into something. Whereas when Tate was in the band, if Wilton came at him with a cool riff, that's cool, but Tate can't do anything with it musically to make it something to sing over.
That example of "Murderer?" is perfect. Bad ass metal riff. Tate loved it. But that's all Wilton had. Tate loved it so much he asked Jason Slater to make it something he could sing over. So Slater took it, and arranged it into an actual song.
That situation no longer exists, because the singer now is La Torre, who can take a cool riff from Wilton, and then write his own musical parts to sing over.
So all the talk about Wilton writing things -- he has, and does write cool stuff. But in the early days (EP) it was just very basic. DeGarmo was, IMO, the arranger to take Wilton's riffs and make them into something Tate could write over. It was the same when Kelly Gray was in the band, and same again when Slater was doing the writing. Nowadays, it's easier, because La Torre has abilities as music writer that Tate doesn't have.
Tates differ. I didn't "get" HITNF right away either. I got an advance cassette copy from a friend in...I want to say around mid-February 1997, about six weeks before the record dropped. I didn't get it. When the album got released and I bought the CD, I liked some, but didn't understand. But here we are, 27 years later, and year after year, I've gotten what they were trying to do more and more. Not overthink it, go off the cuff, and write a record more spontaneously. I think it's very cool. Too much filler, but cool. When DeGarmo returned for "Open," "Desert Dance," "Falling Behind," "Art of Life," "Doing Fine," and "Justified" from Tribe, you can hear the songs start to go a different direction again. Queensryche was the ultimate hard rock/heavy metal chameleon band back then.
I agree... yup...
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good post bro... I have my view on why Wilton got those writing credits, his inability to write a song out of QR or on his own or a complete song confirms to me my view. but its so long ago its not worth going down that path again here as its long ago I dont follow the current QR . has he written a complete song with the current lineup? Ive always been disappointed with Wilton to be honest post Chris leaving, I did like him on a personal level .. nice enough fella for sure
I dont want Geoff to go backwards either., he can sprinkle in some oldies that the fans demand. I feel for Geoff he cant seem to please everyone.. if he doesnt sing the old stuff fans will crush him that he cant do it anymore and at his age anything he gives is sorta a gift.I like that Geoff likes to take chances and do slow ballads and unique stuff like he did on his solo stuff .
I saw some recent Youtubes of Geoff and I thought he sounded very good and his band had a full sound to them, I dont think they ever get back together
Holy cow you haven’t heard any of the comeback albums? Tate does not deserve that level of loyalty my friend.
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Holy cow you haven’t heard any of the comeback albums? Tate does not deserve that level of loyalty my friend.
Tate kinda does .. hes the only thing IMO that is even noteworthy from the original QR. Tate is the only star IMO post Chris. Tates voice and stage presence as I have said IMO is the hallmark of QR period. I have no interest in seeing current QR period, I only go to shows to see stars
Im not a fan of formula metal that the new QR seems to be into . it doesnt connect with me at all to put it mildly I find no meaning in it like many bands, but old qr did mean something and Tate can still sell a song tothe audience there is authenticity in the feeling the song comes from his life growth perspective ... If I have to see qr song live today I want Tate singing it period
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Tates voice and stage presence as I have said IMO is the hallmark of QR period. I have no interest in seeing current QR period, I only go to shows to see stars
Opinions and all that, but while I'll be the first to give props to Tate for his vocal abilities in his prime, his stage presence wasn't anything great. I saw him with QR enough times, especially several shows on the same tour (on a few different tour cycles) to see how phony it was and that it was pure shtick. It was no more genuine than the crap that DLR did, although not quite as over the top. Gimme someone like TLT who is far more genuine.
Im not a fan of formula metal that the new QR seems to be into . it doesnt connect with me at all to put it mildly I find no meaning in it like many bands, but old qr did mean something and Tate can still sell a song tothe audience there is authenticity in the feeling the song comes from his life growth perspective ... If I have to see qr song live today I want Tate singing it period
Fair enough - I can respect you don't like the direction QR has gone in with TLT. But does the stuff he's done after QR kicked him to the curb "mean something" to you just like the old QR? How about even D2C? Because let's face it, D2C was unquestionably *not* a real QR album aside from the fact that the guys in the band *may* be included in some of the recorded performances.
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Opinions and all that, but while I'll be the first to give props to Tate for his vocal abilities in his prime, his stage presence wasn't anything great. I saw him with QR enough times, especially several shows on the same tour (on a few different tour cycles) to see how phony it was and that it was pure shtick. It was no more genuine than the crap that DLR did, although not quite as over the top. Gimme someone like TLT who is far more genuine.
Fair enough - I can respect you don't like the direction QR has gone in with TLT. But does the stuff he's done after QR kicked him to the curb "mean something" to you just like the old QR? How about even D2C? Because let's face it, D2C was unquestionably *not* a real QR album aside from the fact that the guys in the band *may* be included in some of the recorded performances.
idk to me ... like Halford Ozzy Tyler Plant Wieland Layne Chester Dio DLR and many others ... it has to be the original singer to me. without that voice component it always IMO feels just fake or the band should just disband. it just doesnt work for me
again thats just me..
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idk to me ... like Halford Ozzy Tyler Plant Wieland Lane Chester Dio DLR and many others ... it has to be the original singer to me. without that voice component it always IMO feels just fake or the band should just disband. it just doesnt work for me
again thats just me..
What about Dio with Sabbath?
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What about Dio with Sabbath?
I did enjoy that.. but it felt so different but it didnt last but to my point in some ways RJD could never sing ozzy and ozzy never sang RJD
If it can be done this is how to KSE The Signal Fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N0ShfOOEq4
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Bruce doing Paul’s stuff in Iron Maiden?
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Bruce doing Paul’s stuff in Iron Maiden?
apples and oranges but I see your point but if Tate just did the EP and first CD it would similar if they found a great singer and then had a 40 year run etc.
Tate is and was all QR really was, the casual fan will only remember Tates voice as what QR was IMO.
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Thus thread prompted me to spin HitNF last night. It had been many years. My daughter was 6 yrs old when this came out. Hard to believe. Anyways I always enjoyed this album but last night confirmed there are some highs and lows. The run from the EP through PL is almost unmatched in quality so it was inevitable that there had to be a falloff eventually. The highs save the album from being pretty dismal. Tate still sounded amazing and this too helps save the album.
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Thus thread prompted me to spin HitNF last night. It had been many years. My daughter was 6 yrs old when this came out. Hard to believe. Anyways I always enjoyed this album but last night confirmed there are some highs and lows. The run from the EP through PL is almost unmatched in quality so it was inevitable that there had to be a falloff eventually. The highs save the album from being pretty dismal. Tate still sounded amazing and this too helps save the album.
yup Chris wanted to strip it down and grunge it up and Tate was all for it... In some ways the Fans being down on HITNF told Chris it was kinda over and to pursue his dream of flying as Chris today still loves Grunge and Folk and has no interest in metal it appears still. Chris spoke about his burnout running the band also and Tate being the only help he was getting with the LLC and his wanting to not be like his father and be there for his family, all of this is in old interviews etc. my OPINION is that the band made a mistake holding the door open for Chris to come back as in hindsight they probably needed to get a real force to enter the band and assist in writing etc.. I believe that Chris remained a partner in the LLC for a few years after he left and I wonder how his stock was resolved and if that was an issue.
QR is an odd band for how great their original band was and how it came unglued ...cue EMI and BOOM
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I think HITNF is one of the most interesting albums to dissect in progressive metal history. I mean, it's the last album to feature a "full" contribution from one of the most creative forces in the genre's history before he pretty much disappeared totally from the music world aside from the occasional guest appearance. One of the biggest things that stood out to me while revisiting HITNF is that the band was trying to have "fun" with these collections of songs. The preceding three albums (OM, Empire and PL) were some of the most intense records emotionally and musically that I have ever heard in my life -- particularly the dark and introspective Promised Land. Looking back, I feel like the band likely burned out on the intensity and wanted to do something "lighter." I can't really blame them, as they conquered the darkness and were ready for a new direction. I didn't realize it at the time, but the song "Two Miles High" from the Promised Land video game was probably a precursor of the change in sound. That song was the bridge between Promised Land and HITNF. Anyway, I can now look back and appreciate HITNF, but I do agree that there are highs and lows. In my opinion, the album would've benefited from a re-ordering of the songs and cutting or replacing a couple of them. Like I said earlier, I think the blistering "Hit the Black" would've been a killer opener and first single instead of having it buried later in the album, while the mid-tempo "Sign of the Times" and "Cuckoo's Nest" would've been better positioned elsewhere in the record. Some small changes and cuts like that could've made a bit of a difference in how the record was received.
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To me, Hit The Black is by far the standout track on the album. I also love Anytime/Anywhere.
Okay, now I'm convinced that you just have to be trolling the thread. Nobody likes either of those songs.
my OPINION is that the band made a mistake holding the door open for Chris to come back as in hindsight they probably needed to get a real force to enter the band and assist in writing etc..
Interesting take. I didn't care for Kelly in the band. Initially, I liked what Stone brought to the table on the Tribe tour, but I quickly soured on his playing and tone and was really glad to see him go. As a player, Parker really nailed it and was just about perfect. He developed his chops to become more than competent enough to play anything the band wanted to do, was willing to do his homework and put in the work to really show a lot of respect to how Chris played his parts on the older material, and injected just enough of his own style to sound current and relevant. But I don't think he brought much to the table in terms of writing. Not sure whether or not he could, and I think a lot of him not doing much may have simply been the dynamic of the band, especially when he was first brought in by Tate.
In any case, I am somewhat with you on wishing they were able to take the time to find a real powerhouse that could step in and fill Chris's shoes. But from everything I've heard, it seems more likely than not that if it wasn't Kelly stepping in, they would have just called it a day and disbanded. I could be wrong, but it seems like that's at least where Geoff was at the time.
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I really like HITNF, the only song on it I find truly boring is Hero. Sure, it's very very different from PL, in fact, almost the opposite kind of album, but, for my personal level of liking, I like a lot them both as much (which I think it's the weirdest combined opinion on both albums I ever saw). But both are bellow the incredible sequence from The Warning to Empire. I was listening to LaTorre era these days- which I also like a lot - but I think it's a tad below PL and HITNF. Maybe because it lacks that "magic"chemistry of the classic era, but it's above the remaining albums, including Tribe, that had nothing of the old chemistry at all IMO.
A bit of a delusional thought, but what if Jim Matheos joined QR after Chris left?
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I really like HITNF, the only song on it I find truly boring is Hero. Sure, it's very very different from PL, in fact, almost the opposite kind of album, but, for my personal level of liking, I like a lot them both as much (which I think it's the weirdest combined opinion on both albums I ever saw). But both are bellow the incredible sequence from The Warning to Empire. I was listening to LaTorre era these days- which I also like a lot - but I think it's a tad below PL and HITNF. Maybe because it lacks that "magic"chemistry of the classic era, but it's above the remaining albums, including Tribe, that had nothing of the old chemistry at all IMO.
A bit of a delusional thought, but what if Jim Matheos joined QR after Chris left?
its always interesting to think "who could Geoff have brought in to replace Chris and work with him on writing and vision" ive always been very down on Wilton as he never stepped up after Chris left and it showed how little he had to offer IMO.
I have to think Chris thought he band would end with him leaving and Geoff would move on as there was that rumor Geoff would go to Journey?? ( I always found that odd.. I cant see that all lol )
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I was definitely disappointed in HITNF, but at least I could see what they were going for. The same cannot be said for their previous album.
If you are referring to Digital Noise Alliance, then I totally agree with you. I like some of the tunes for sure. But what stood out to me was that it was a very much "let's throw everything at the wall and see what sticks." Whereas, The Verdict and Condition Human seemed very much albums where they each felt like everything belonged on those collections.
I could be way off, as I really haven't inVESTed time into modern QR lately. Been working on the historical stuff and books on them. But the sentiment that clearly hit me listening to DNA a couple of times was "they aren't sure what they want this to be." Maybe that was on purpose. I have no idea.
Going back to HITNF, it's certainly one of the more polarizing albums in QR's catalog. But QR back then didn't care about genre, particularly subgenres. They were very clear about that. They were a rock band that was heavier. Everything was on the table.
Remember that phrase Tate used during the lawsuits to describe QR's manta? "No limits." Doing research for the stuff I'm working on, he was actually right. That phrase is said by him (and Chris) many times in interviews throughout their careers. And in retrospect, HITNF is just one example of that.
I didn't realize it at the time, but the song "Two Miles High" from the Promised Land video game was probably a precursor of the change in sound. That song was the bridge between Promised Land and HITNF. Anyway, I can now look back and appreciate HITNF, but I do agree that there are highs and lows. In my opinion, the album would've benefited from a re-ordering of the songs and cutting or replacing a couple of them. Like I said earlier, I think the blistering "Hit the Black" would've been a killer opener and first single instead of having it buried later in the album, while the mid-tempo "Sign of the Times" and "Cuckoo's Nest" would've been better positioned elsewhere in the record. Some small changes and cuts like that could've made a bit of a difference in how the record was received.
Great observation on "Two Mile High." I agree completely. I think it is a nice bridge to where they were, and where they were going. I wouldn't say though that they wanted to go "lighter," but I certainly think they wanted a simpler approach to the music. Not so overly-processed.
Also agree on small changes to the running order and tracks. But seriously, the biggest issue regarding the reception of HITNF was the label going under. Those first two singles were well received and big on the radio...until EMI shuttered and then the radio station had no one from them pushing the tracks. It's all a business. Had the label not gone under, the U.S. tour likely would have sold as well as PL Tour did, and QR would have gone to Europe as well. HITNF would have been Gold, and songs like "spOOL" and likely "Reach" would have been singles too. Maybe even "Some People Fly." The record would have had legs.
HITNF was a sound for the times, just like Empire was. The difference was, Empire had every single dollar from the record company thrown at it - hard. And it worked. There was no money (or label) to throw at HITNF after the first month of release.
Regarding people who could have been brought in, Ty Tabor was asked in 2008. He declined, respectfully, as he and King's X had just released an album. Be he was really honored to be asked. I personally think that would have been cool. I'll have more on that as time goes on. Can't quite talk about what I'm doing next. Not yet. ;)
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Okay, now I'm convinced that you just have to be trolling the thread. Nobody likes either of those songs.
Interesting take. I didn't care for Kelly in the band. Initially, I liked what Stone brought to the table on the Tribe tour, but I quickly soured on his playing and tone and was really glad to see him go. As a player, Parker really nailed it and was just about perfect. He developed his chops to become more than competent enough to play anything the band wanted to do, was willing to do his homework and put in the work to really show a lot of respect to how Chris played his parts on the older material, and injected just enough of his own style to sound current and relevant. But I don't think he brought much to the table in terms of writing. Not sure whether or not he could, and I think a lot of him not doing much may have simply been the dynamic of the band, especially when he was first brought in by Tate.
In any case, I am somewhat with you on wishing they were able to take the time to find a real powerhouse that could step in and fill Chris's shoes. But from everything I've heard, it seems more likely than not that if it wasn't Kelly stepping in, they would have just called it a day and disbanded. I could be wrong, but it seems like that's at least where Geoff was at the time.
Good to see you Boss!!! its fun to look back on as its sadly long ago now and speculate, The Kelly thing I kinda felt like was Geoff now helping Kelly many many years after leaving Myth for The Mob to make QR ( both high school bands at the time ) and kinda healing that wound of leaving Myth for the now formed QR (The Mob who did not have a singer got Geoff and became QR) that was signed and soon to become a famous band . I did like Q2K but again Myth was Prog and I think Kelly was not the right person.
have a great day!
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If you are referring to Digital Noise Alliance, then I totally agree with you.
Pretty sure Tim meant Promised Land (and he’s wrong ;))
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HITNF was a sound for the times, just like Empire was. The difference was, Empire had every single dollar from the record company thrown at it - hard. And it worked. There was no money (or label) to throw at HITNF after the first month of release.
I saw an interview with Geoff last year (or was it 2022? Or maybe before that? Time flies). He said he met one of the A&R guys from the EMI days, and asked how come Empire was so massively succesful? What made the album that much better than their previous releases?
And Geoff was told the album was as great as all their previous efforts, but EMI in North America spent $6M USD on promoting Empire.
Of course as a fan, I think it's a mix of both.
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I remember that interview. Yeah. A lot of it, at least back then, came down to money. Empire was a great record, no doubt about it. It had the songs that were a great blend of the band's intelligent approach to music, and a more mainstream appeal wrapped into one, and one of the best mixed albums and overall sound of that era. And from a live show standpoint, it was Queensryche at the absolute height of their collective powers. All that played a massive part, and I wouldn't say otherwise. But yeah, when you throw that kind of money at promoting something (and that was a lot back in the day), it's going to gain traction.
With HITNF, I believe they had the songs of the time, but they had no label after the first month or so. So with no promotion money, no tour support, etc., it just withered and died. Say what you want about Promised Land. I love that record, and think it's great. But it didn't have mainstream appeal AT ALL. And EMI threw millions at THAT too, and it was one-third as commercially successful as Empire. I've always argued two things: The wrong singles were chosen from Promised Land, and overall, HITNF was much more commercial than PL.
Anyway, always cool to look back at decisions made and things that happened.
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I remember that interview. Yeah. A lot of it, at least back then, came down to money. Empire was a great record, no doubt about it. It had the songs that were a great blend of the band's intelligent approach to music, and a more mainstream appeal wrapped into one, and one of the best mixed albums and overall sound of that era. And from a live show standpoint, it was Queensryche at the absolute height of their collective powers. All that played a massive part, and I wouldn't say otherwise. But yeah, when you throw that kind of money at promoting something (and that was a lot back in the day), it's going to gain traction.
With HITNF, I believe they had the songs of the time, but they had no label after the first month or so. So with no promotion money, no tour support, etc., it just withered and died. Say what you want about Promised Land. I love that record, and think it's great. But it didn't have mainstream appeal AT ALL. And EMI threw millions at THAT too, and it was one-third as commercially successful as Empire. I've always argued two things: The wrong singles were chosen from Promised Land, and overall, HITNF was much more commercial than PL.
Anyway, always cool to look back at decisions made and things that happened.
I agree that HITNF was much more AOR friendly than PL
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Promised Land is awesome, but not even remotely commercial. Wasn't Disconnected a single and video? That song had no chance at commercial success.
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Wasn't Disconnected a single and video? That song had no chance at commercial success.
Yeah, it was. "I Am I", "Bridge" and "Dis-con-nec-ted." I also have "Someone Else?" on CD as a promotional single, which was released about the same time as the Promised Land CD-Rom.
I always thought these were the obvious singles:
"Damaged"
"Bridge"
"My Global Mind"
"One More Time"
I think they would have performed well. "I Am I" was a little weird for a single, at least to my ears.
But the whole album is so dark, even those tracks. I'm not even sure those songs would have gotten PL radio play or MTV play. Especially at the height of grunge in 1994/1995.
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I think they would have performed well. "I Am I" was a little weird for a single, at least to my ears.
That's because it's a garbled mess.
And I just remember when Bridge was released, I just rolled my eyes as it was basically Silent Lucidity 2 but only half as good.
Still, they did a headlining tour.
Sorry, I didn't mean to jump in with that comment. I've been reading this last page with interest, trying to recall in my mind how things were with the Empire, and PL, and HITNF releases.
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My Global Mind and One More Time would have been better singles. But I don't think either would have lead to much more success for the album. Real World is an excellent song and should have been on the original release. Was Real World released as a single from Last Action Hero?
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Was Real World released as a single from Last Action Hero?
Yes it was!
I also wish it was on Promised Land. They have two songs that were done before PL was issued - "Real World" and "Dirty Lil Secret." My guess is, they did those two songs and the movie folks picked "Real World." But since "Dirty Lil Secret" doesn't really fit the vibe of PL, they probably just figured they'd leave that off and use it as a b-side. I love that track. But it doesn't fit PL. But "Real World" - hell yes. Having that on PL would have been great. It was amazing on the PL tour.
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Real World is such an interesting song. It's excellent
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I'm in the minority knowing Someone Else works perfectly where it is as a closer but IMO Real World should've finished Promised Land. Its finale is well in line with Eyes and Anybody Listening as closing numbers too.
Have always felt One More Time would've been the perfect crossover pre-release single. Still had some Empire vibes but a taste of what was to come with Promised Land ;)
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Real World is such an interesting song. It's excellent
It's probably my favorite QR song. It was my first introduction to QR through the Last Action Hero soundtrack.
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Have always felt One More Time would've been the perfect crossover pre-release single. Still had some Empire vibes but a taste of what was to come with Promised Land ;)
I agree (as you saw above) that One More Time should have been a single. But I think Damaged should have been the lead single. Anybody Listening and Real World were the last singles (from 1992 and 1993, respectively) that people last heard QR. I would have just gone straight heavy to hook the interest of metal fans that perhaps scratched their heads with Empire. Then I would have went Bridge, My Global Mind, and One More Time. That's how I would have done it.
I think PL threw EMI executives as much as it threw fans. I really do think they expected either an Empire II, or what we got with Hear in the Now Frontier. Getting this dark, non-commercial, very moody and mid-tempo introspective thing...I just know if I was a marketing person with EMI at the time, I would have been at a loss. The singles I suggested would be what I would have thrown out there, if I was one of the team making the call.
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I agree (as you saw above) that One More Time should have been a single. But I think Damaged should have been the lead single. Anybody Listening and Real World were the last singles (from 1992 and 1993, respectively) that people last heard QR. I would have just gone straight heavy to hook the interest of metal fans that perhaps scratched their heads with Empire. Then I would have went Bridge, My Global Mind, and One More Time. That's how I would have done it.
I think PL threw EMI executives as much as it threw fans. I really do think they expected either an Empire II, or what we got with Hear in the Now Frontier. Getting this dark, non-commercial, very moody and mid-tempo introspective thing...I just know if I was a marketing person with EMI at the time, I would have been at a loss. The singles I suggested would be what I would have thrown out there, if I was one of the team making the call.
Yep absolutely saw your post above, think we've agreed on the merits of One More Time had it been a single before ;D
Almost replied no to your thoughts on Damaged but after stopping to think it through I can see your point and hadn't considered what had been released to radio before the Promised Land promo (Anybody and Real World). I can see the merits of Damaged being the promo single a month or so out from release, certainly can't argue its heavy driving bottom end of Damaged and it's dark as fuck vibe would've been very exciting leading into Promised Land. I would've then dropped One More Time as single for the album release but regardless, good call.
Back on topic above regarding Empire, interestingly I just found a cool Kerrang article for Q2k in which Tate states he sees no difference in it and Empire as Q2k was modelled off Empire. So after two further records it was his opinion they return to the Empire template I found interesting. Because aside from the fact it got zero budget when compared to Empire, well we know how that turned out :\
Sidenote I did and still really enjoy Q2k but 2c and all.
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Yeah, I can totally get onboard with those singles in that order. Personally, I like I Am I better than Damaged (it's my second favorite song on the album behind the title track), but Damaged is much more accessible and better as a single. I didn't love Bridge, but it's a good song, and I think would have gotten more traction as a single had more people actually noticed the album, which I think would have happened with Damaged as the lead single. The others are decent songs. Probably would not have gotten a ton of play, but would have at least kept the album relevant.
I have no idea how Tate thinks Empire and Q2K have anything in common. That's a bit strange.
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I have no idea how Tate thinks Empire and Q2K have anything in common. That's a bit strange.
I know right? May have been just a throwaway attempt at some promo who knows!? The interview was at the time of Q2k's release so probably.
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I found that interview on a quick search. This is the quote:
The announcement of new guitarist Kelly Gray, says Tate, has given the band a new lease of life. "The whole experience brought the band closer together again," reasons the singer. "We were really dysfunctional before and I think we're a lot healthier now. We saw that we could have a shot at it again."
THAT SHOT came in the shape of last year's 'Q2K' opus. Its an album that Geoff Tate insists is a return to former glories. "I see no diffference in it and 'Empire'," he shrugs. "They're basically modelled after each other - 'Q2K' is basically an 'Empire' for the year 2000."
I understand his point - I've always felt like Empire's songs were based around some of the common topics of the era, human experiences or common human-relationship themes. Granted, I was 10 years old in 1990 and had zero life experience about this - but you have songs about homelessness, accidental shootings, romantic relationships, the environment.
Q2K has a lot of lyrics about romantic relationships or family, human emotion and experience, coming with 10 additional years of life experience to build on.
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I totally see Tate's point. Empire was aiming at the mainstream. HITNF was aiming at the mainstream. And Q2k was too. From a musical perspective at least.
But the thing is, I know I'm very skeptical, but I don't think Tate really even meant that as truth. I think he was saying what he was saying because he's marketing. Or at least attempting to. Q2k was very organic. They got in a room and jammed on ideas. Q2k has a loose element to it, as Gray once told me. He even admitted it wasn't the best record, but he thought it was good, and a nice starting point for the five of them. I tend to agree on that latter point. It didn't work out with Gray, but musically, I would have liked to have seen where it went on another album with him.