Author Topic: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album  (Read 704685 times)

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Offline Samsara

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #840 on: November 23, 2011, 11:56:04 AM »
HITNF is not a great ALBUM. It has some real good songs, IMO. From Rage through PL, QR made great albums, and then sorta lost the plot.

On one hand, I commend Chris for steering the band more back toward a mainstream sound with HITNF, but by doing so, he was a couple years too late, and stripped the band of the depth that made them interesting to listen to. Some songs, like spOOL, maintain it, but for the most part, the stripped down approach doesn't work for a band like Queensryche...at least not an album's worth of material.

That said, one of the most underappreciated aspects of HITNF is the guitar playing. Chris and Michael are doing some really cool stuff that is for the most part, understated to highlight the groove of each of the songs. The solo in "You" is incredible, so is the one in "Hero."

Overall, Hear sits at the bottom in terms of original lineup work (which I consider to be EP-HITNF and then the half of Tribe that the entire band recorded...Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine, Art of Life, Justified -- meant for Tribe, but finished afterward). But it does have some good tunes on it.

The filler really drags it down, however.

The current "Queensryche" is really Tateryche, and as such, it's just a wholly different animal with really not much writing being used from the original members. Q2k, Mindcrime II, American Soldier and Dedicated to Chaos have some moments (very, VERY few on the latter), but they really just don't sound like "Queensryche" because of the different writers that are composing the songs. Some are good, but not the same organic vibe because of the different majority writers.

Edit -- for those that don't know, Q2k was credited as "the band," but the majority songwriter was Kelly Gray. Scott, Michael and Ed had some music writing moments on it, but for the most part, it was Gray being Degarmo. The entire band recorded the record.

 Mindcrime II was mostly Tate/Slater. Stone was given credit by Slater (part of Slater's publishing) because Slater felt since Stone was in the room with him day in and day out working on it, he deserved it. Wilton's credits (three) are for the basic riff in the song (Hands, Murderer) and for some of the arrangement (Hostage, which Eddie wrote the riff).

As for performance, anyone with an ear can tell that Stone did a lot of the guitars on the record. Michael is on Hostage, he's on I'm American, and he's on Murderer and The Hands, but even in some of the trade-off solos, you can tell it's Stone doing both parts. I am not saying I know that for 100 percent, but if you listen, you can hear it. Scott's drums also sound very weird, like they were worked on in the studio later. He plays different parts on Mindcrime at the Moore (the live release) so one has to wonder if he is on a lot of the record. As for bass, Slater is a bass player, and while I hear Eddie in there, I know for sure I hear Slater playing bass in a few songs.

On American Soldier, it was Slater/Gray/Tate on the entire thing, writing-wise (or Slater/Tate or Gray/Tate), except for a couple songs that were leftover tracks from Slave to the System, Rockenfield's other band with Gray and Brother Cane frontman Damon Johnson.

While the band recorded all of American Soldier, and Wilton wrote the solos, the songs themselves were not composed by Queensryche. From what we know, the songs were all PERFORMED by Wilton/Rockenfield/Jackson, with some bits by Gray and others.

On Dedicated to Chaos, Wilton was not involved in any writing (at least he got no credit), and not much of the playing it sounds like to these ears. Eddie and Scott were more involved in the writing, but the majority of the songs were written by Jason Slater, Kelly Gray, and Randy Gane (keyboardist of MYTH, Tate's band before QR who played off stage on the Rage tour for the band). Tate wrote the lyrics.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 12:04:42 PM by Samsära »
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Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #841 on: November 24, 2011, 12:32:26 AM »
Thanks, that explains a lot. I think.  ;D
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Offline Cruithne

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #842 on: November 24, 2011, 02:47:16 AM »
I love HiTNF, but then I didn't think much of Promised Land when it was first released so HiTNF was a step up for me. These days I'd rate those two albums about the same though.

However, the writing is much more restrained and less dramatic (for want of a better word) than earlier material and only Sp00l really sounds like typical QR material up to that point - I do wonder how well received HiTNF would have been had it been a DeGarmo solo record, which it practically was anyway. I don't think it'd engender quite the same hyperbole from the detractors at least.

Offline Ruba

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #843 on: November 25, 2011, 12:24:44 AM »
I never got the hate for HITNF.  I like the album.

Me too. It would be 8,5/10, if they've dropped All I Want, Anytime/Anywhere and Miles Away.

But on the other side of the coin there are spOOL, Reach, Some People Fly, Sign of the Times, Saved and Cuckoo's Nest.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #844 on: November 25, 2011, 10:16:55 AM »
I agree with the earlier sentiment that HITNF seems like genius now that it can be compared with the rest of the post PL catalog.   But coming on the heels of one of their finest CD's just left a bitter taste at first. 

I really like Some People Fly, sp00l, Cuckoo's Nest, and You.   Then there's some meh songs and some crap songs.    I guess I hated the fact that it felt like a grunge album to me (Chris DeGarmo started spending alot of time with Jerry Cantrell about this time, and even did a grunge project with him immediately after leaving QR).  And there's nothing wrong with grunge per se....but I'm against trend setting bands throwing in the towel on cutting their own path in order to start following someone else's....and about 6 years too late.
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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #845 on: November 25, 2011, 01:23:18 PM »
I would put "All I Want" neck and neck with "Wot We Do" as my most disliked QR song ever.  I know some people enjoy All I Want, and thats great, but I hate it.

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #846 on: November 25, 2011, 02:21:38 PM »
All I Want is one of the better tracks for me, but it was the beginning of the end of my affair with QR. It sounded like QR, but it was lifeless and lacklustre.

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #847 on: November 25, 2011, 03:06:02 PM »
I would put "All I Want" neck and neck with "Wot We Do" as my most disliked QR song ever.  I know some people enjoy All I Want, and thats great, but I hate it.

Never really cared for All I Want, but it's definitely better than Wot We Do.  That is by far the worst song in Ryche's discography.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #848 on: November 25, 2011, 03:11:53 PM »
I love Anytime/Anywhere and Hit The Black.
I liked what they tries to do with HITNF, but the songs just weren't good enough. I loved the band pic on the sleeve.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #849 on: November 25, 2011, 09:19:01 PM »
HINF was the first QR disc to have filler songs IMO, not sure what caused the change from this band making discs that were great/perfect from beginning to end, to this.  There wasn't a change in personal at this point in time, so you can't blame that.  I still think HINF is a good rock disc; always thought that if it was condensed down to maybe 10 songs, I would appreiciate it/like it more.  They were probably trying to fit in with the musical landscape at the time; which is a shame because this took away almost the mystique of what QR was all about.  Thank goodness that they didn't make HINF the followup to Empire because we would have missed out on the epic amaizng PL.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #850 on: November 29, 2011, 02:41:00 PM »
To the point that HITNF was essentially a Degarmo solo record -- I fully disagree. He set the basic direction, but he did so on Empire too, and Empire wouldn't be considered a Degarmo solo record. PL was entirely set to the vibe of what Geoff Tate was going through at the time, but we wouldn't call that a Tate solo record... etc., etc.

What HITNF was, was Chris trying to recapture the mainstream appeal the band had with Empire, seven years later. And had EMI not closed its doors, it might have very well worked. Sign of the Times and You received heavy airplay and as soon as EMI went belly-up, the promotion stopped the band dead in its tracks. The next two planned singles after that were The Voice Inside and spOOL. Based on those four songs, that record had the potential for some great success.

And Tate was very much on-board. He wrote lyrics, melodies, etc. Like always, the band trusted Chris with his vision of what HITNF should be. A record where they stopped worrying about every little detail, and just put songs together in their basic arrangement, be a little more raw, and get it out there.

It backfired, IMO, because it stripped the band of one of its most distinct qualities (production and depth of soundscape), and because the record company flopped.

To be honest, those four singles are high points on the record for me. Combined with Hit the Black and Hero, probably my top songs on the record. So I thought the record had strength and some legs. But the money dried up because of the label going under and that was that. The promotion stopped.

As a complete ALBUM, I don't think HITNF works. But I think the record is probably seven or eight songs deep of quality tracks. It just has WAY too much filler.

And if you listen to the songs for Tribe that Degarmo played on...Open, Desert Dance, Falling Behind, Art of Life, Doin' Fine and Justified, you can see that production value had returned, as did some heavier riffing. It's a natural progression up from HITNF, but containing some stylistic similarities, because that's where Chris was at the time, as a songwriter.

I get angry every time I think about what has happened since Chris left. Such a rich catalog of original lineup material, and since then, it just doesn't sound like the same band, because, well, it isn't, the main guy is gone, and so is his artistic evolution, which always incorporated the changing tastes and styles of the other guys.

Now we have pompus, melodramatic crap pop or records made by other guys to sound like Queensryche's past. Such a bummer.

But the original lineup material has withstood the test of time. Great, great music. Stuff like PL, HITNF and the original lineup Tribe tracks may not be to everyone's liking, but it was a natural evolution for where the band and Chris as the major music writer, was going. It was quite a cool ride.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #851 on: November 29, 2011, 03:08:04 PM »

I get angry every time I think about what has happened since Chris left. Such a rich catalog of original lineup material, and since then, it just doesn't sound like the same band, because, well, it isn't, the main guy is gone, and so is his artistic evolution, which always incorporated the changing tastes and styles of the other guys.

Now we have pompus, melodramatic crap pop or records made by other guys to sound like Queensryche's past. Such a bummer.


You took the words right out of my mouth. I was thinking exactly this over the past week.

Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #852 on: November 30, 2011, 12:25:35 AM »
Nope, still sucks to me.   :tdwn
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Offline Nel

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #853 on: November 30, 2011, 01:59:06 AM »
It's funny, I got into Queensryche because I opened a cabinet in our house one day and Promised Land literally fell out and hit me in the head. I listened to it out of curiousity and loved it.

I asked my parents which one of them bought it, and neither remembered even liking the band. (Turned out later that my mom had bought it back in the 90s thinking Silent Lucidity was on it, as she loves that song, but put it away when she found out it was the wrong album.)

Only great album I've ever gotten for free. Fun times.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #854 on: November 30, 2011, 09:22:45 AM »
It is still unbelievable, QR's descent into the musical abyss.  I can't think of any other band that was that good that became so bad, seemingly overnight. 

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #855 on: November 30, 2011, 09:37:35 AM »
Since we're on a bit of a nostalgia trip, I was watching this the other day and I literally felt pain in my heart that this is lost forever. The music, the performance, the atmosphere... what happened to these guys and how is beyond me.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 10:47:49 PM by Flick »

Offline Samsara

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #856 on: November 30, 2011, 10:37:00 AM »
Yeah, it's really depressing. As we all know, certain music resonates with people and they are more vested in it than others. I am sure Queensryche was like that for a lot of people, me included. Hell, had it not been for their music, I would have never met my wife or some of my closest friends from the last 20 years.

So when this happens, it just. plain. sucks.

But the way I've kinda gone about it is, I sorta tune out everything that isn't the original lineup. I mean, I pay attention, but I sorta sequester it away as "Tateryche" since nobody in th eband reall ywrites anything and Tate calls the shots now, and I can still enjoy the original lineup material like I used to.

It's not easy though, watching the band name now be laughed at all the time.
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #857 on: November 30, 2011, 10:47:39 AM »
Yeah, it's really depressing. As we all know, certain music resonates with people and they are more vested in it than others. I am sure Queensryche was like that for a lot of people, me included. Hell, had it not been for their music, I would have never met my wife or some of my closest friends from the last 20 years.

So when this happens, it just. plain. sucks.

But the way I've kinda gone about it is, I sorta tune out everything that isn't the original lineup. I mean, I pay attention, but I sorta sequester it away as "Tateryche" since nobody in th eband reall ywrites anything and Tate calls the shots now, and I can still enjoy the original lineup material like I used to.

It's not easy though, watching the band name now be laughed at all the time.

Same for me. I used to feel the same way about QR as I do about DT now (man did they come along at the right time!). There isn't another band I've loved that have fallen so far. Rush are close- haven't remotely liked anything since Counterparts- but I don't feel the same bitterness for some reason.

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #858 on: November 30, 2011, 10:00:05 PM »
I listen to the EP to Promised Land on a regular basis and hold those discs as the true QR.  The other discs I will just pick and chose what songs to listen to because listening to the entire disc is somewhat of a chore.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #859 on: December 01, 2011, 10:52:04 AM »

It's weird with QR and a lot of bands (like DT) that I am a huge fan of. I know the catalog so well and played it so much, I don't necessarily listen to it all the time any more. The original lineup material is in regular rotation, but I don't listen to those albums once a week (or a day) like I used to. :)

Usually what will spur me to put it on, is when I hear something on XM Radio or something, or come across a cool QR vid on YouTube. Then I'll load up an album to listen to. Typically, it'll be the original lineup tracks from Tribe (I have it separated on my iPod), Mindcrime, Empire, PL, or the combined Building Empires live material that came on the re-released versions of Empire and Mindcrime (I have it segued as an entire live show).

I still listen to the EP, The Warning (in the right track order), Rage and HITNF too, but not AS regularly.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #860 on: December 01, 2011, 11:03:33 AM »
The albums that I listen to most ofter are:

1. Warning
2. Rage For Order
3. Promised Land

As far as Mindcrime One is concerned, its kind of like a real fine wine, which I only take out on special occasions, but I feel like its more satisfying that way. The other 3 albums I can just put on anytime and really enjoy them.

I definitely need to break out Empire though. Its been like a year since my last listen.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 01:45:00 PM by Phoenix87x »

Offline Samsara

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #861 on: December 01, 2011, 12:05:34 PM »
Chris DeGarmo just chatted with fans on ESPN.com. Mostly about music and flying. Gives some good answers. Politically correct, but insightful. Particularly about QR's current happenings and whether he'd return to the band:

https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=2517.msg41424#msg41424

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Offline Zook

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #862 on: January 03, 2012, 06:23:03 PM »
Found an apparent first pressing vinyl of Queensryche's EP used for $8. Any idea how much it's worth? It was in great condition too.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #863 on: January 03, 2012, 06:34:07 PM »
Probably not a whole heck of a lot.  I would check Ebay for similar items.
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Offline abydos

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #864 on: January 03, 2012, 09:33:44 PM »
Tate is hard at work to devalue any Ryche items, i guess if you can make 2$ off of it it's still a bargain! xD

Offline ytserush

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #865 on: January 04, 2012, 12:00:12 AM »
Found an apparent first pressing vinyl of Queensryche's EP used for $8. Any idea how much it's worth? It was in great condition too.

Depends.

Is it the reissue on EMI or is it from the independent label (206 Records?)

The first pressing is worth a lot more. Not sure how much more.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #866 on: January 04, 2012, 08:40:39 AM »
I could be completely mistaken, but wasn't the 206 release cassette only?
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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #867 on: January 04, 2012, 10:24:23 AM »
I could be completely mistaken, but wasn't the 206 release cassette only?

No.  I've seen the vinyl version...but not in years.     I kinda thought it might be worth quite a bit of money *IF* it was in pristine condition, but maybe I'm just deluding myself. 
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #868 on: January 04, 2012, 10:38:58 AM »
Okay.  I have only ever seen it referred to as a "tape," but that could just be a generic reference to the fact that that was the most common format, or that that was the format in which it was recorded, so I will defer to you if you know you've seen it in vinyl as well.
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Offline Zook

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #869 on: January 04, 2012, 03:15:13 PM »
I called back the place and the guy said all he could find relating to the label was the "all songs copyright EMI publishing" or whatever.

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #870 on: January 09, 2012, 03:48:10 PM »
I just found this on Ebay.

If nothing else, I thought it would give you an idea of a typical asking price on Ebay...(don't know if he's actually getting what he's asking...but..)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Queensryche-First-EP-12-Inch-206-Records-Ex-Vg-R-101-LP-/260926700239?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item3cc0717acf#ht_3077wt_1163
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Offline Vivace

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #871 on: January 10, 2012, 10:04:16 AM »
American Solider (sans the first track) gets a LOT of listening time from me. I love that album and am surprised to hear that it wasn't primarily composed by the band. I wonder who composed it? It's the most solid album they have done since Promised Land and it's had a while to sink in. It's aged well. In a lot of ways it diminished OMII for me.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #872 on: January 10, 2012, 10:55:39 AM »
Jason Slater largely composed it with input from Geoff.  If not for the subpar vocals, it would be a VERY strong album.  Other than the vocals, there are a few things I think should have been done differently, but those are fairly minor.  For instance, I think the album tapers off toward the end because you have back to back ballads, and The Voice isn't quite as big and bombastic as it should have been.  As it is, I also give it a fair amount of listening time. 
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #873 on: January 10, 2012, 02:56:01 PM »
The duet with his daughter brought a tear to my eye when I first heard it- in a good way, not a Dedicated To chaos way! I really felt it, got the message it was meant to portray, and that's not something that happens to me often. The only other piece of music that did this to me was Satch's live version of Crying on the Extremist tour.
Not struck on it as a QR album though.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Queensryche
« Reply #874 on: January 10, 2012, 03:01:22 PM »
The duet with his daughter brought a tear to my eye when I first heard it- in a good way, not a Dedicated To chaos way! I really felt it, got the message it was meant to portray, and that's not something that happens to me often.

I agree.  However, although I understand what they were going for, they could have and should have gotten a better child vocalist.  After the initial novelty wore off, rather than having the powerful emotional impact the song should have, I am simply distracted by how bad Emily's (and Geoff's, for that matter) vocals are.
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