Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[jsem]

Oh no. That was NOT enjoyable.

Angela shouldn't growl Geoff Tate's classic lines ever.

[BanksD]

Oh no. That was NOT enjoyable.

Angela shouldn't growl ever.

Fixed

[bosk1]

That has to be one of the most amazing covers I've ever heard...

[Nick]

Did you seriously think that was good?

I'm not just knocking the vocals, it was a pretty horrid cover all the way around.

[King Postwhore]

I'm with you Nick. 

[The Dark Master]

Did you seriously think that was good?

I'm not just knocking the vocals, it was a pretty horrid cover all the way around.

For a death metal version of Queensryche, it's pretty good.  The thing is, though, death metal is so far away stylistically from QR that the radically different aural aesthetic of the cover, juxtaposed to the original, is very, very jarring (and unlike, say, when Children of Bodem covered Brittany Spears, this isn't intended to be a parody.)  For what it is, I think the cover is pretty bad ass, but what it is precisely is an entirely different animal from the original.

[Gadough]

I don't like Arch Enemy or Angela Gossow, so it's no surprise to me that I thought the cover was godawful.

[BanksD]

I don't like Arch Enemy or Angela Gossow, so it's no surprise to me that I thought the cover was godawful.

Exactly my thoughts

[LCArenas]

I like growls.
I like DeGarmo-era Queensryche.
But you don't need to be a genius to realize these things just sound awful when mixed together. Also, never really been a fan of Arch Enemy.

[energythief]

That was worse than I could have imagined.

[energythief]

Check this out:

https://www.theonion.com/articles/what-was-your-first-concert-ours-was-queensryche-i,21231/

[jingle.boy]

Was listening to the Boneyard on Sirius tonight. They played what I suspect was one of their new songs (it was awful!). The DJ said it as a song they've been opening with. Funny part was, intentional or not, he introduced them as Queens-wreck.

How appropriate.

[Nick]

Get Started is like, one of the two songs from the new album I actually like.

[Liberation]

I found it to be the definition of everything that's wrong with the album. The only songs I found REALLY good were At The Edge and Broken which actually sounded quite emotional and Big Noize which is very interesting. But all the happy rock songs on the album bring it down so hard that even inverting gravity would be unlikely to help.

Also, the thing which really bugs me already on American Soldier is their apparent obsession with harmony vocals. They're EVERYWHERE without a reason.

[jjrock88]

I still think DTC is the shits and still haven't ,and still won't, ever listen to the physical copy of the disc ever again.  Unless I'm paid a minumum of $5000; then I will think about it.  However, with that being said, I still believe "At the Edge" is amazing and one of the best post Degarmo tracks they've ever done.  Listen to it constantly on my ipod.  Hearing that song, it shows that some potential is still there.  But surrounding "At the Edge" with 15 helacious/terrible/horrific tracks obviously brings down the quality of the disc.

[Liberation]

What about the other two I mentioned? Agreed the rest ranges from "meh" to "MY EEEEEARS", but I just really like these three.

[dongringo]

At the Edge and Broken are the only two songs I like on the album. Sad.

[Dittomist]

At the Edge, Drive, Hard Times, Big Noize, and Broken are my 5 favorite tracks from DTC. And I'm still shocked every time I hear Wot We Do or Got it Bad--seriously, who thought these songs even had a slight chance of working? I wonder what Wilton's initial reactions were when he listened to them. Would you all agree that these are the two worst songs in QR's history?

[jingle.boy]

Get Started is like, one of the two songs from the new album I actually like.

Damn!  Hard to imagine how bad this disc must be if that's one that you like.

[Samsara]

Defecation of Chaos sucks. Even the songs that are remotely listenable are still average, at the very best.

The critics and the fans have spoken. This is a complete bomb and will likely sink the band's career (even further).

[Nick]

At the Edge, Drive, Hard Times, Big Noize, and Broken are my 5 favorite tracks from DTC. And I'm still shocked every time I hear Wot We Do or Got it Bad--seriously, who thought these songs even had a slight chance of working? I wonder what Wilton's initial reactions were when he listened to them. Would you all agree that these are the two worst songs in QR's history?

Wot We Do is quite possibly the worst song they've ever done.

[BanksD]

Wot We Do is quite possibly the worst songs ever

fixd

[reo73]

Damn, 23 pages in and I am just getting around to posting in this thread.  I used to be a huge QR fan.  In high school, just after Empire was released, Chris Degarmo moved into my neighborhood 1 block from my house.  He only lived there about 1 year, but I got to meet him a couple times.  Really a friendly soft-spoken guy.  Anyway, I saw them live 2X on the Empire tour, once on the Q2K tour and last on the QR/DT tour.

Of course I love all their early stuff right up through Empire.  I thought PL was also an amazing album (I tend to like dark moody albums) but was really let down with HITNF though after all these years I have come to like it a lot more and appreciate it for it's more stripped down, simplistic sound.  I thought Q2K was just OK and I really was not able to get into Tribe.  After Tribe I lost interest in them altogether as the songwriting just became boring to me.  I just listened to their latest release and it downright blows.  They are a shell of the band they once were.

[wolfking]

At the Edge, Drive, Hard Times, Big Noize, and Broken are my 5 favorite tracks from DTC. And I'm still shocked every time I hear Wot We Do or Got it Bad--seriously, who thought these songs even had a slight chance of working? I wonder what Wilton's initial reactions were when he listened to them. Would you all agree that these are the two worst songs in QR's history?

Wot We Do is quite possibly the worst song they've ever done.

IMO, Wot We Do is by far the worst song they have ever done.

[Progmetty]

I just put OM in my listening rotation for the first time in a couple years since I got introduced to the band. Damn good album!

[Samsara]

I miss the real Queensryche.

[Lowdz]

The other day I was on Samsara's excellent QR site reading the interviews with Neil Kernon re RFO and it really inspired an evening of QR, well the first 5 anyway. It's hard to describe the awesomeness they once had and it just isn't there anymore. Where the hell did Wilton go?

Also read the discussion about RFO having a running story of vampires and I certainly never picked up on that before. The reference in London to "blood red streaks on velvet throats at night" I did think of the vampire clubs, but I didn't see it in the other songs. Interesting idea but was there ever any confirmation of this from the band?

[Samsara]

Regarding RFO, there are three themes that run in sections on the album:

Personal (vampire-esqe stuff), political and technological.

They run in order like that.

This was an epic discussion back in the day about it:

Pt. 1 - https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=4.0

Pt. 2 - https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=5.0

Thanks for the compliment on the site.

As for Wilton, he's there. Wilton is a riff/solo guy. He comes up with riffs, but he's not the total writing package. He writes these riffs, which are heavy and cool, but ask any singer, and if they are handed a riff as a song idea, they need more than that to write over. That is Wilton's issue. He's not a guy that can take a few riffs, put them together and present a complete song.

Degarmo's strength was that not only was he a completely songwriter, he could take Wilton's ideas, and work with him to arrange an entire song around it that was cool. Without Chris, Wilton's impact is somewhat nullified, because his song ideas aren't songs, just parts.

That's not taking anything away from Whip. His riffs and solos are awesome. I think Tate is an enormous douchebag these days, but how the hell can a writer write over a chug chug chug chugchugchug chug chug riff that just repeats?

remember the song "Murderer" from the awful Tate solo album called MIndcrime II? That song is awesome. But that main riff was what Michael had. That was it. Slater wrote the rest of the song around it, thus Slater's writing credit. He filled Chris' role. Same thing with "The Hands" from that record too. The main riff is Wilton. The rest was Slater.

That's where Wilton's strength lies. But Tate controls QR now. And if he can get Kelly Gray and Randy Gane to hand him songs, instead of having to have someone else work with Michael's riff ideas, that's what he's going to do.

I feel bad for Wilton. Yeah, he should have become more vested in becoming a total songwriter. But on the other hand, his ideas get ignored, and he's a vital element of what made QR cool.

[dongringo]

Awful isn't a word I'd use to describe Mindcrime ll. Even if it's mostly Tate and Slater, at least it sounds like QR, unlike DTC which sounds nothing like QR apart from one song and can be truly classified as awful.

[Lowdz]

Regarding RFO, there are three themes that run in sections on the album:

Personal (vampire-esqe stuff), political and technological.

They run in order like that.

This was an epic discussion back in the day about it:

Pt. 1 - https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=4.0

Pt. 2 - https://www.anybodylistening.net/breakdownroom/index.php?topic=5.0

Thanks for the compliment on the site.

As for Wilton, he's there. Wilton is a riff/solo guy. He comes up with riffs, but he's not the total writing package. He writes these riffs, which are heavy and cool, but ask any singer, and if they are handed a riff as a song idea, they need more than that to write over. That is Wilton's issue. He's not a guy that can take a few riffs, put them together and present a complete song.

Degarmo's strength was that not only was he a completely songwriter, he could take Wilton's ideas, and work with him to arrange an entire song around it that was cool. Without Chris, Wilton's impact is somewhat nullified, because his song ideas aren't songs, just parts.

That's not taking anything away from Whip. His riffs and solos are awesome. I think Tate is an enormous douchebag these days, but how the hell can a writer write over a chug chug chug chugchugchug chug chug riff that just repeats?

remember the song "Murderer" from the awful Tate solo album called MIndcrime II? That song is awesome. But that main riff was what Michael had. That was it. Slater wrote the rest of the song around it, thus Slater's writing credit. He filled Chris' role. Same thing with "The Hands" from that record too. The main riff is Wilton. The rest was Slater.

That's where Wilton's strength lies. But Tate controls QR now. And if he can get Kelly Gray and Randy Gane to hand him songs, instead of having to have someone else work with Michael's riff ideas, that's what he's going to do.

I feel bad for Wilton. Yeah, he should have become more vested in becoming a total songwriter. But on the other hand, his ideas get ignored, and he's a vital element of what made QR cool.

Yeah, that was the discussion I was reading. Entertaining stuff.
The Gray/Gane approach isn't working so I'd take a Wilton/Slater attempt every time. MCII is the only post DeGarmo album I ever listen to. And I worshipped this band from hearing THOTF on Tommy Vance's Friday Rock Show on Radio 1 in the UK.

[Jirpo]

I just read through my lyrics booklet to "The Warning". They used to write amazing lyrics

[Liberation]

Personally I really like the lyrics to American Soldier. I bought the album because it was pretty cheap, and I read the lyrics before listening, which is why I was REALLY surprised.

However, Dedicated to Chaos... ugh... well, it's _even worse_ than what I would expect from an album with song titles "Wot We Do" and "Luvnu"...

[jjrock88]

"Wot We Do" is not only the worst QR song ever, without question, it's one of the worst songs I've ever heard- period.  I now just pretend that that song and DTC never existed.

[bosk1]

Awful isn't a word I'd use to describe Mindcrime ll. Even if it's mostly Tate and Slater, at least it sounds like QR, unlike DTC which sounds nothing like QR apart from one song and can be truly classified as awful.

Yeah, I pretty much agree.  It has some definite problems and missed opportunities, and has a few "awful" moments.  In terms of just being "an album of songs," it isn't "awful" at all because there are definitely some very good songs.  The problem is, it is a concept album, and those awful moments drag down the entire story, which taints the album as a whole.  

Personally, I feel the album is very strong up through Re-Arrange You.  Is it Mindcrime awsome?  Perhaps not, but it is still plenty solid.  But things start to go downhill with The Chase, unfortunately.  The song itself is a good idea that suffers because of (1) poor execution (mainly because it just becomes so melodramatic that it begins to alienate a lot of listeners) and (2) carries the stigma of the unfortunately stupid production during the tour that simply cannot be erased from the memory banks once it is seen (which, I suppose, goes back to the melodrama thing).  Murderer? picks things back up again and gives the listener some hope.  But by this point, an album that was pretty solid up to this point just starts to go all over the place in terms of quality, and a lot of the problem is the shift in focus to the love story and the issue of Mary as Nikki's conscience.  To me and many other fans, this idea just doesn't work.  Could it have?  I suppose.  But, again, melodrama and poor execution ruin it.  I mean, it's kinda cool that we don't really know how much of the Mary/Nikki interaction at this point is real, imaginary, or something in between.  But it just goes over the top and doesn't culminate in anything satisfying, as far as I'm concerned.  

There are lots of things I would want to fix if, hypothetically, I were in charge and could take this back into the studio to rework before releasing it.  But pretty much anything I would "fix" would have the consequence of taking the story in a different direction.  Which, as a tangent, forces me to at least give Geoff/Slater a slight nod for creating a story where all the pieces, regardless of whether they were executed well or poorly, actually do move the story along and contribute something to the story.  Listeners can debate all they want about whether any particular piece is a worthwhile contribution, but that's a separate issue.  

Anyhow, back on track, I guess the simplest solution for me is just to eliminate the last track.  Get rid of All The Promises, and you have the story ending with Fear City Slide, and not really knowing how Nikki died and what it all meant, which is a good thing.  I remember the speculation when the album was new about whether Nikki simply OD'd, whether the explosion sound toward the end of FSS meant he blew up XCorp (or some bigger target), or something else.  And that was pretty cool.  The ambiguity felt nicely in sync with the themes and intentional ambiguities in the original Mindcrime.  But then you have All The Promises, which kinda just makes you throw up your hands and say, "who cares?"  Eliminate that song and just put in some sort of outro that maybe musically links the album back to Anarchy X or the end of Mindcrime, and call it a day.  Maybe something like this:  the original ends with Nikki in the hospital.  You have that ominous symphonic fade in that cuts off when Nikki repeats the "I remember now."  Maybe the same or similar fade-in, and you hear faint beeps from an EKG machine, and then a flatline tone as the symphonic chord either fades back out or cuts off.  Nice, simple, chilling, vague ending that ties up the album nicely without monkeying with it too much.  Something like this one simple change would easily bump the album up a notch or two.  Problem is, Geoff had his vision, and that was that, even if it ended up dragging the album down.  Someone needed to step up and tell him it wasn't a good idea.  Problem was, the only people with him for most of the writing, Slater and Stone, weren't in a position to do that.  And the result is an album that could have been pretty good, but ultimately fails because a few dumb ideas resulted in poor execution that dragged the album as a whole down with it.  That's my take.

[Mebert78]

Wow.  Good ideas, bosk.  I enjoyed reading that.  I would have liked to see that ending to OM2.