Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[gzarruk]

I'm late, but I finally listened to the album, and... I'm really underwhelmed. I wasn't the biggest fan of Vector to begin with, but now Virus makes Vector sound like The Mountain in comparison

Obviously I've only listened to the album once, so it's not like I've spent a lot of time analyzing the songs, but after one listen I can say I found absolutely nothing memorable about it. My favorite song, melody-wise, might be Prosthetic, and that's saying a lot! Even Vector, with all the heavyness, managed to get good/memorable melodies and there's 4 songs that I really really like from it (the stretch from TGD to NBM). Here, I found it to be a really tiring experience, with a lot of samey-sounding songs, where I often felt like skipping them to see if there was anything interesting in the next one, but I tried not to.

As for the keyboards, I wonder where Diego was, because he's definitely not in the album But, seriously, I think I heard the keys stand out like 4 or 5 times in an hour long album

Again, things could get better with more listens, but after going through the album from start to finish, I honestly have no desire to do it again. There's just so much great music out there that I enjoy a lot more, that I really don't want to invest more time in an album like this one (not saying it's not good, it's just: 1. not really for me 2. not what I want when listening to Haken)

[devieira73]

You're not the first people to ask me that. Obviously it goes without saying that I'd absolutely love for it to happen, but I don't even know what's going on with Diego right now so I don't want to get my hopes up.

Wow, you’re Pete Jonas’s brother? Cool! He made an incredible job on Nova Collective!
About Diego, he was the only Haken member that didn’t post anything about Virus on Facebook since its release. I think this is a real sign that something wrong is happening.

[jammindude]

Update....my package arrived today.

I’m a little bummed that the CD just comes in a plastic slipcover. Now I feel like I have to pick up the digipak from my local CD shop.

I’ll load it onto my player tonight and try to listen at work tomorrow.

[erwinrafael]

The number of people in the last week who have said that Visions is their favorite album, or was their favorite album until x, is highly disappointing to me.

I must be the only person on this planet that still reps Aquarius. There was just something about that one that seemed special to me and a lot of the unique characteristics did not carry over into the subsequent albums.

Aquarius would be great if there is no pointless growling and Celestial Elixir has a climax.

[mike099]

At first I did not like the new album, but now it is really growing. 

[Crow]

Drowning in the Flood - Sun - Celestial Elixir

Yes.

Yeah this isn't even a contest

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Aquarius is probably still my favorite album, tied pretty roughly with The Mountain. Visions is mostly good but doesn't stick with me much, and while I like Earthrise and The Endless Knot a lot, I pretty much never listen to Affinity, and everything I've heard past that just fails to make an impression on me.

Well, I did like Crystallized a lot. I don't remember when that was released.

[jammindude]

There are way too many 3 song runs to pick a favorite. But Mind’s Eye/Portals/Shapeshifter is up there. Certainly my favorite 3 song run from Visions by a landslide.

How about favorite per album?

Drowning/Sun/Elixir
Eye/Portals/SS
In Memoriam/Because/Falling
Giant/Knot/Gravity
Doctor/Puzzle/Veil

[DTA]

I'm late, but I finally listened to the album, and... I'm really underwhelmed. I wasn't the biggest fan of Vector to begin with, but now Virus makes Vector sound like The Mountain in comparison

Obviously I've only listened to the album once, so it's not like I've spent a lot of time analyzing the songs, but after one listen I can say I found absolutely nothing memorable about it. My favorite song, melody-wise, might be Prosthetic, and that's saying a lot! Even Vector, with all the heavyness, managed to get good/memorable melodies and there's 4 songs that I really really like from it (the stretch from TGD to NBM). Here, I found it to be a really tiring experience, with a lot of samey-sounding songs, where I often felt like skipping them to see if there was anything interesting in the next one, but I tried not to.

As for the keyboards, I wonder where Diego was, because he's definitely not in the album But, seriously, I think I heard the keys stand out like 4 or 5 times in an hour long album

Again, things could get better with more listens, but after going through the album from start to finish, I honestly have no desire to do it again. There's just so much great music out there that I enjoy a lot more, that I really don't want to invest more time in an album like this one (not saying it's not good, it's just: 1. not really for me 2. not what I want when listening to Haken)

Exactly this for me. I don't think I've ever felt more underwhelmed after Only Stars finished.

[Zydar]

Could this be the next one?    (not my original content)

[ariich]

Someone else suggested it should become a trilogy with the third part called Vaccine.

[Zydar]

Yeah that sounds more plausible

[RoeDent]

Someone else suggested it should become a trilogy with the third part called Vaccine.

This, but it should be stylized VaccIIne, to keep the V/VI/VII going. Also what gets vaccinated back to health? Diego's keyboards return to the fore? The mix is in perfect balance with no one instrument overwhelming the others?

[axeman90210]

They should have named this one Victor.

[Mladen]

Someone else suggested it should become a trilogy with the third part called Vaccine.

This, but it should be stylized VaccIIne, to keep the V/VI/VII going. Also what gets vaccinated back to health? Diego's keyboards return to the fore? The mix is in perfect balance with no one instrument overwhelming the others?

Now I will actually be disappointed if this doesn't happen. 

[Buddyhunter1]

Would the fans who don't like it be called "anti-vaxxers"?

[erwinrafael]

Gave Virus another chance again tonight. Now listening to Dream Theater's Awake to recover.

[romdrums]

As for the keyboards, I wonder where Diego was, because he's definitely not in the album But, seriously, I think I heard the keys stand out like 4 or 5 times in an hour long album

As I was listening to the record, I started singing the Where In the World is Carmen San Diego? theme with "Where in the world is keyboardist Diego?"

[King Postwhore]

Ray would love that new album cover.  LOL

[jammindude]

They should have named this one Victor.

Then their next album could be a double album called “Roger Roger”

[gzarruk]

As for the keyboards, I wonder where Diego was, because he's definitely not in the album But, seriously, I think I heard the keys stand out like 4 or 5 times in an hour long album

As I was listening to the record, I started singing the Where In the World is Carmen San Diego? theme with "Where in the world is keyboardist Diego?"

 

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Invasion might be my least favorite Haken song. I can’t explain it. It just feels so incredibly bland.

I just can’t connect to this album very well. Ross’ vocals this time around just do nothing for me.

There are few moments I love.

Prosthetic - I actually like this one, chorus get a bit old though.
Invasion - look above. Ross brings it down for me.
Carousel - Love the 2nd half, especially the bass work.
The Strain - Really don’t like the chorus. At all. 2:40 until like 3:25 is pretty amazing. I actually love his vocals there.
Canary Yellow - Not bad, kinda reminds me of Bound by Gravity, just not near as good.
The Messiah Complex - I like this for what it is. It’s nowhere near as good as their other epics, though it hardly feels like one anyway. Ectobius Rex is pretty fun.
Only Stars - it exists.

I usually like to wait a while to see if an album clicks before posting thoughts but I didn’t expect I’d be this initially disappointed in a Haken album. There are few vocal melodies that really stick with me, and Diego being so low in the mix really brings it down for me, considering he’s my favorite. 

By far the worst Haken album for me. Usually not this negative, but damn, its a very disappointing experience for me.

[Crow]

Haken 7 will obviously be called $7 Bacon Sandwich

[jammindude]

OK. So I officially gave the album three spins while I was at work today. Twice in a row, and then vector and virus back to back. So I have some initial thoughts.

I find FB‘s comment particularly funny since I just came on here to say that invasion may very well be my favorite song from either album.    I absolutely cannot get that vocal melody or that riff out of my head.

I still don’t think the album is nearly as good as their first four, but I do like it worlds better than vector. The big “if” is going to be messiah complex. It seems a mishmash right now. But it’s a lot to digest. Some cohesiveness might become more apparent with familiarity.

As far as Diego goes, he might be a bit buried in the mix, but once I put on my “Train of Thought goggles” I heard him all over on this album.

I remember everyone in the dream theater community seemingly making the exact same comments about Jordan’s keyboards when train of thought first came out. If I recall correctly, Jordan even had to come out with a statement telling everyone that he was all over on the album, but he just wasn’t using typical keyboard sounds. much of what he plays on train of thought are sound patches and texturing that blend in with the guitars, so you don’t really know it’s there unless you’re looking for sounds that don’t sound like keyboards. Listen to the types of things that Jordan does on train of thought and you will hear Diego doing a lot of very similar things on this album.

That doesn’t mean I’m claiming there’s not problems in the camp. Diego may be unhappy for some other reason. (As I said...he is a bit buried. He might be unhappy with the mix, or possibly even unhappy with the new heavier direction) But if you know what to look for, he’s absolutely not a no-show on this album.

[Pettor]

As far as Diego goes, he might be a bit buried in the mix, but once I put on my “Train of Thought goggles” I heard him all over on this album.

So true! I did the same yesterday and got a much better appreciation for the keyboards. Still I love keyboards so I would like different sounds but it's fine for a very heavy focused album like this.

I am starting to digest the album more and more and overall I like it more and more. Messiah Complex is very much a cool mismash with so much potential. Sadly I think it won't live up to that and just a few tweaks here and there would make all the difference. Reminds me of Shattered Fortress actually.

[RoeDent]

I wonder how much of people saying Messiah Complex is a mishmash/not coherent is down to the movements being separated into individual tracks. The chorus of part 1 does repeat at the end, followed by a reprise of the middle theme from Prosthetic. The first part of that sentence feels like standard procedure for many prog epics. Establish "home", go off on an adventure, then return home at the end.

[IDontNotDoThings]

I wonder how much of people saying Messiah Complex is a mishmash/not coherent is down to the movements being separated into individual tracks.

It wasn't for me. I merged the tracks as soon as I got my hands on them.

[Elite]

I wonder how much of people saying Messiah Complex is a mishmash/not coherent is down to the movements being separated into individual tracks. The chorus of part 1 does repeat at the end, followed by a reprise of the middle theme from Prosthetic. The first part of that sentence feels like standard procedure for many prog epics. Establish "home", go off on an adventure, then return home at the end.

Look at it like, for example, The Whirlwind by Transatlantic. That's also supposedly a single song, divide into multiple (12) tracks. The fac that it's divided into multiple tracks makes you appreciate some of the separate movements in as different light - as a standalone song. I think the band may have realised that Messiah Complex was too complex (ha!) to be a 'single' song, and therefore decided to divide it into several movements for clarity's sake. That said.. after three listens I don't really think the different movements are really good stand-alone songs. Can you imagine them playing just Part IV at a concert? I think they would always need to play the whole suite in one go. Part of what makes the song so frantic, and I'm quite sure this is deliberate, is that it jumps around a lot. Reprising a bunch of stuff, melodically, rhythmically and lyrically, and signifying the ultimate demise of the Cockroach King through his madness. I think it should be one song, because the separate movements don't make as much sense on their own as for instance the Whirlwind tracks (or SDOIT, if you want), but they do help in structuring this piece.

(Frankly though, I don't really care either way and people complaining about it being split up are making things way too difficult for themselves. Just listen to it in one go if you really want or get rid of your free Spotify subscription so you don't get an ad halfway through.)

[Pettor]

I don't really have a problem with a mismash or whatever we call it. Dream Theater has plenty of that with e.g. Shattered Fortress and I love it. Messiah Complex is really cool, just that the jumps are sometimes so "hard" (they really don't transition into it). Maybe it's mainly the vocals for me that doesn't transition very well between the individual tracks. Also the reprise of Ivory Tower melody (which I love btw) at the end doesn't have that goose bump effect I expected. It needs to build a bit more imo.

My main issue however is The Sect. Some of that instrumentation is just not very good to listen to. Ofc complex and all but so unnecessary and over the top imo.

[jammindude]

I wonder how much of people saying Messiah Complex is a mishmash/not coherent is down to the movements being separated into individual tracks. The chorus of part 1 does repeat at the end, followed by a reprise of the middle theme from Prosthetic. The first part of that sentence feels like standard procedure for many prog epics. Establish "home", go off on an adventure, then return home at the end.

Since I’m listening at work on a music player, I’m not even aware of where one movement starts and another ends. I would have to be looking at my player to see when the tracks switch. So I’m hearing it as a continuous piece and it still seems a bit messy. But it’s only 3 listens.

[ariich]

I think it's less messy as 5 tracks, because each has its own separate musical identity. It's not done as a single cohesive song with repeating choruses or motifs. Part 1 has a chorus, which gets reprised in part 5. The very start of part 3 is an extension of a riff from part 2. But apart from those, there's no other musical connection between the 5 parts.

So, as a single song I'd see why people might find it messy. But it's not a single song, it's a 5-track suite.

[jammindude]

Anyone had a chance to pour through the lyrics and interpret the story yet?

[Pettor]

I think it's less messy as 5 tracks, because each has its own separate musical identity. It's not done as a single cohesive song with repeating choruses or motifs. Part 1 has a chorus, which gets reprised in part 5. The very start of part 3 is an extension of a riff from part 2. But apart from those, there's no other musical connection between the 5 parts.

So, as a single song I'd see why people might find it messy. But it's not a single song, it's a 5-track suite.

But that only changes the mindset not how it sounds. Also there's a very strong musical connection between the tracks since they flow into each other and are part of the same entity. I can't listen to it differently than the way I am currently doing no matter if it's a single track, suite, individual tracks etc. I don't think I can change the way I look at it and by that make it feel less messy 

BTW The "Abdicate the throne, majesty ..." part of A glutton for punishment is maybe the best part for me right now. So good! 

[ariich]

I think it's less messy as 5 tracks, because each has its own separate musical identity. It's not done as a single cohesive song with repeating choruses or motifs. Part 1 has a chorus, which gets reprised in part 5. The very start of part 3 is an extension of a riff from part 2. But apart from those, there's no other musical connection between the 5 parts.

So, as a single song I'd see why people might find it messy. But it's not a single song, it's a 5-track suite.

But that only changes the mindset not how it sounds. Also there's a very strong musical connection between the tracks since they flow into each other and are part of the same entity. I can't listen to it differently than the way I am currently doing no matter if it's a single track, suite, individual tracks etc. I don't think I can change the way I look at it and by that make it feel less messy 

BTW The "Abdicate the throne, majesty ..." part of A glutton for punishment is maybe the best part for me right now. So good! 

Yeah agree it of course doesn't change how it sounds, I was just responding to RoeDent's question. But I think mindset does matter somewhat, because our enjoyment of music is all down to what we take from it and how we interpret it, so context like that will matter to a lot of people, to varying degrees anyway.

[Revenge319]

BTW The "Abdicate the throne, majesty ..." part of A glutton for punishment is maybe the best part for me right now. So good! 

If I were to change one thing about Messiah Complex, it would be to make that part longer. It'd make a near-perfect song even better!