Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[ariich]

The Visions - The Mountain period had their best melodies. I can listen to the Mind's Eye - Portals - Shapeshifter suite all day.

Mind's Eye isn't the strongest example of "best melodies", I find it such a bland song.

I feel like the only thing we can base our predictions on are the fact they've gotten much more heavier and technical since The Mountain. 

Affinity definitely wasn't more heavy or technical than The Mountain, arguably it was less so on both counts.

[cramx3]

I feel like the only thing we can base our predictions on are the fact they've gotten much more heavier and technical since The Mountain. 

Affinity definitely wasn't more heavy or technical than The Mountain, arguably it was less so on both counts.

Yea you are probably right, I was thinking more along the lines of The Architect being the big epic song from Affinity which is also really heavy and technical, but on The Mountain, I don't get the feeling of that heaviness.  Listening to the Mountain, I get like a jazzy feeling even in the heavy songs.  Yet Vector/Virus takes it to the next level of heaviness.  I also think production plays a role in the heaviness.  Virus feels like the heaviest album they've done. 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

... I still have yet to get Aquarius. 

[cramx3]

... I still have yet to get Aquarius. 

saving it for a rainy day

I used to be so obsessive with bands I liked, that I would consume their entire discography once I discovered a band.  But I don't do that anymore just because there's so much music out there.  I did see the Aquamedley live and have it on the dvd/cd, so I'm not totalyl unfamiliar with it, but yea, I've actually never listened to the album and will do so at some point.

[Zydar]

Oh man, it has my favourite Haken track ever in Celestial Elixir. The Aquamedley doesn't do it justice.

[ariich]

I feel like the only thing we can base our predictions on are the fact they've gotten much more heavier and technical since The Mountain. 

Affinity definitely wasn't more heavy or technical than The Mountain, arguably it was less so on both counts.

Yea you are probably right, I was thinking more along the lines of The Architect being the big epic song from Affinity which is also really heavy and technical, but on The Mountain, I don't get the feeling of that heaviness.  Listening to the Mountain, I get like a jazzy feeling even in the heavy songs.  Yet Vector/Virus takes it to the next level of heaviness.  I also think production plays a role in the heaviness.  Virus feels like the heaviest album they've done. 

I would say that Falling Back to Earth is at least as heavy as The Architect. But one thing I agree on actually, which possibly contributes to how some people see things post-Mountain, which is that the jazzy side has been much less prominent. It pretty much wasn't there at all on Affinity, and only a bit on Vector/Virus (The Good Doctor and moments in Messiah Complex). Doesn't mean it won't come back though!

[Elite]

Yeah, the Aquamedley is quite fun, but in no way does it resemble the album as a whole in the same way as listening to the full thing would. There's so much great stuff missing from the medley and that alone says enough of how good Aquarius actually is

[FlyingBIZKIT]

What's your favorite 3 song run from any Haken album?

Mine is The Architect - Earthrise - Red Giant, and it's not even close.

Or... the Restoration EP.

[Mladen]

To be completely honest, The Good doctor - Puzzle box - Veil is truly remarkable. 

[erwinrafael]

The Visions - The Mountain period had their best melodies. I can listen to the Mind's Eye - Portals - Shapeshifter suite all day.

Mind's Eye isn't the strongest example of "best melodies", I find it such a bland song.

Bland if taken alone (actually not!), but as the start of that suite, amazing. Especially when it bookends Shapeshifter. Actually, I can't imagine not listening to those three songs together, Haken shoukd have released that as an 18-minute epic.

I guess we just don't see eye to eye on what a good melody is, so hey, you're the Haken expert. Like I said before, I know I am quite the odd man among those who listen to Haken, although I still hope I would hear a song from them that would capture me the same way song in Visions / Mountain did.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

To be completely honest, The Good doctor - Puzzle box - Veil is truly remarkable. 

I really liked The Good Doctor, for about 7 listens. Then I don't think I ever listened to it again unless I was spinning the album in full. 

[cramx3]

What's your favorite 3 song run from any Haken album?

Off the top of my head, I'm going with Shapeshifter -> Deathless -> Visions

[Revenge319]

My favorite 3-song run... That's a tough decision. Here's a few of my favorites, because choosing just one would be too difficult.

The Good Doctor > Puzzle Box > Veil
Veil > Nil By Mouth > Host
Shapeshifter > Deathless > Visions
Canary Yellow > Messiah Complex > Only Stars
As Death Embraces > Pareidolia > Somebody

[Buddyhunter1]

1985 > Lapse > The Architect

No contest.

[Elite]

What's your favorite 3 song run from any Haken album?

Either

Drowning in the Flood - Sun - Celestial Elixir

or

1985 - Lapse - The Architect

probably.

[Evermind]

Drowning in the Flood - Sun - Celestial Elixir

Yes.

[NoFred]

To be completely honest, The Good doctor - Puzzle box - Veil is truly remarkable. 

I really liked The Good Doctor, for about 7 listens. Then I don't think I ever listened to it again unless I was spinning the album in full. 

The part that plays as if it was over a hospital intercom, complete with faux happy melody, is the side of I hope there is more of. The joy or happiness that someone mentioned earlier.

Point of No Return - Canary Yellow for my minimum 3 song streak probably 1985/Lapse/The Architect or Falling Back to Earth/As Death Embraces/Pareidolia

[ariich]

The Visions - The Mountain period had their best melodies. I can listen to the Mind's Eye - Portals - Shapeshifter suite all day.

Mind's Eye isn't the strongest example of "best melodies", I find it such a bland song.

Bland if taken alone (actually not!), but as the start of that suite, amazing. Especially when it bookends Shapeshifter. Actually, I can't imagine not listening to those three songs together, Haken shoukd have released that as an 18-minute epic.

I guess we just don't see eye to eye on what a good melody is, so hey, you're the Haken expert. Like I said before, I know I am quite the odd man among those who listen to Haken, although I still hope I would hear a song from them that would capture me the same way song in Visions / Mountain did.

Yeah absolutely, there's no right or wrong here - as you say we probably have different tastes. Certainly with Haken, my favourite melodies of theirs tend to be the really melancholic ones - Celestial Elixir, Falling Back to Earth, Invasion, etc.


As for favourite 3-song run, that's a tough one.

In Memoriam > Because It's There > Falling Back to Earth would probably be my favourite.

Other ones I really love though are also:
Shapeshifter > Deathless > Visions
Earthrise > Red Giant > The Endless Knot
Invasion > Carousel > The Strain

[ariich]

1985 > Lapse > The Architect

No contest.

Yes contest, The Architect is held back by the boring meandering in the middle.

[NoFred]

1985 > Lapse > The Architect

No contest.

Yes contest, The Architect is held back by the boring meandering in the middle.

I recall Earthrise is same length as the middle part, just splice that in and problem solved

[ariich]

[Dedalus]

I listened to all the material from beginning to end, then listened again. So, just an opinion.

It's amazing how listening to everything in hindsight helps to reevaluate opinions and perceptions. Someone mentioned that Visions is a "prog metal by the numbers" and I agree. Aquarius is too. And that is why I have always taked them as "smaller albums" in contrast to The Mountain, a masterpiece. Listening to everything again and considering everything that came after The Mountain improved my opinion of the first two records. Ok, "prog metal by the numbers", but better than it would come later.

I do remember that liking Restoration and not liking Affinity, but I didn't remember those records in detail anymore. Restoration is a great remake of songs from the first demo. A great EP.
Affinity has improved in my concept. It is full of modern prog metal/djent features and I understand why I promptly discarded it four years ago. To mention just one example: 1985 is a great song (the best on the record), full of interesting passages, but it has that heavy riff at 2:36 that bothers me so much. And riffs similar to this one are sprinkled throughout the band's discography, especially in recent years.
But OK. I can now be more open-minded, let these characteristics aside and enjoy what I like. And there are a lot of interesting things on the album.

And then we go for Vector / Virus. I confess that I had an even worse memory of Vector. I didn't remember the beautiful flugelhorn in Host (the best song on the album). But it is not a good album. I don't like The Good Doctor, Puzzle Box, Veil. And I think Nil By Mouth is atrocious (I wish I could go back in time with this song, back in the 90s / 2000s, and show it to all my acquaintances who said that DT was self indulgent. "If you were to think that DT was self indulgent, listen to this! ")
Finally, Virus. As the album is recent I will listen to a few more times. For now, I just liked Prosthetic (that works for me) and Canary Yellow, nothing more. Only Stars is boring, which is terrible because I usually like Haken's mellow songs. I hate Invasion and I will be very disappointed if Messiah Complex does not win the "most disjointed progressive suite award of 2020".

It is undeniable that the band is currently delivering a sound that meets what seems to be the preference of fans of the style. It still looks like Haken, but it looks more and more like the endless "new prog metal / djent bands".

I still think The Mountain is a kind of a "one shot" by the band, but my adventure ended up being positive, because I managed to have better opinions about Aquarius, Visions (in a way) and Affinity. I guess it's a kind of happy end.   

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I'm in the minority (maybe I'm the only one) in that The Mountain is my least favorite Haken album. Still love it... just love the others more.

Current Rankings
1. Aquarius
2. Vector
3. Affinity 
4. Visions
5. The Mountain

Virus will probably end up in the 2-4 range.

[Buddyhunter1]

Yes contest, The Architect is held back by the boring meandering in the middle.

no

I could raise you so many other Haken songs that are more boring and / or meandering than the middle section of The Architect I also don't see how you could consider a simple buildup over the same chord progression "meandering". Boring maybe (even though you're wrong) but certainly not meandering.

[Dedalus]

What's your favorite 3 song run from any Haken album?

The Path - Atlas Stone - Cockroach King

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Yes contest, The Architect is held back by the boring meandering in the middle.

no

I could raise you so many other Haken songs that are more boring and / or meandering than the middle section of The Architect I also don't see how you could consider a simple buildup over the same chord progression "meandering". Boring maybe (even though you're wrong) but certainly not meandering.

What songs? Just curious

[cramx3]

Yes contest, The Architect is held back by the boring meandering in the middle.

no

I could raise you so many other Haken songs that are more boring and / or meandering than the middle section of The Architect I also don't see how you could consider a simple buildup over the same chord progression "meandering". Boring maybe (even though you're wrong) but certainly not meandering.

What songs? Just curious

Only Stars?  I think that song is... not good to say it nicely.

[Buddyhunter1]

Yes contest, The Architect is held back by the boring meandering in the middle.

no

I could raise you so many other Haken songs that are more boring and / or meandering than the middle section of The Architect I also don't see how you could consider a simple buildup over the same chord progression "meandering". Boring maybe (even though you're wrong) but certainly not meandering.

What songs? Just curious

Well for "meandering" literally every other epic besides Celestial Elixir, for starters

[Zydar]

Atlas Stone / Cockroach King / In Memoriam is probably my favourite 3 song run.

From the new album I'd take Prosthetic / Invasion / Carousel. That's a damn fine album opening.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Can we just agree that Red Giant is their best song? If anyone agrees with me I'll buy them a Haken t shirt.

[Elite]

Can we just agree that Red Giant is their best song? If anyone agrees with me I'll buy them a Haken t shirt.

I'll agree just to get the shirt. Or the cap they're selling right now.

[ErHaO]

Yeah, I think I like the newer Haken, I think this and Vector are two very nice records 

[Skeever]

The number of people in the last week who have said that Visions is their favorite album, or was their favorite album until x, is highly disappointing to me.

I must be the only person on this planet that still reps Aquarius. There was just something about that one that seemed special to me and a lot of the unique characteristics did not carry over into the subsequent albums.

[Elite]

The number of people in the last week who have said that Visions is their favorite album, or was their favorite album until x, is highly disappointing to me.

I must be the only person on this planet that still reps Aquarius. There was just something about that one that seemed special to me and a lot of the unique characteristics did not carry over into the subsequent albums.

Aquarius remains my favourite Haken album and I know for a fact that you and me are not the only people thinking that.

[Evermind]

Can we just agree that Red Giant is their best song? If anyone agrees with me I'll buy them a Haken t shirt.

Already ordered the yellow t-shirt. Red Giant blows

The number of people in the last week who have said that Visions is their favorite album, or was their favorite album until x, is highly disappointing to me.

I must be the only person on this planet that still reps Aquarius. There was just something about that one that seemed special to me and a lot of the unique characteristics did not carry over into the subsequent albums.

Nah, it's my favourite, and there's a couple of others who share the same opinion.