Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[El Barto]

I know this thread is not for the TV shows but I'm a newbie wondering where to start in the Star Trek verse, there's like 4 different Star Trek shows on Netflix.

What makes you think that? This thread is for all Star Trek related stuff.

If you're willing to stick with it, I'd go chronologically, which is Star Trek (the original series) + the first 6 movies, followed by The Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, and finally Enterprise (it's a prequel, but I'd say it still works better watched last given when it was made).
If you find the original series too cheesy, you could safely start with The Next Generation, or just watch the movies with the original cast (1 through 6) beforehand if they're on there. But the first movie is very plodding and dull even for most Trekkies.

You're talking about the president of the Egyptian Bonanza Fan Club here. TOS is not going to be too cheesy. In fact, James T. Kirk will probably completely blow his mind.

I know this thread is not for the TV shows but I'm a newbie wondering where to start in the Star Trek verse, there's like 4 different Star Trek shows on Netflix.

Regardless, Blob's is absolutely the way to go. You've got to take them in order. If 726 total episodes is too daunting for you, like if there's some major life-changing event coming down the pike or something, we could probably come up with a list of crucial episodes of each series. That'd probably knock 2/3 off, except for Deep Space Nine which can't be whittled down much at all.

[BlobVanDam]

You're talking about the president of the Egyptian Bonanza Fan Club here. TOS is not going to be too cheesy. In fact, James T. Kirk will probably completely blow his mind.

Fantastic. I don't know progmetty's tastes, so I was keeping it pretty general. If that's too much Trek, it could be cut down significantly, but I wasn't going to jump ahead just yet.

[El Barto]

This would probably be my recommended TOS starting list. It's about half, includes good entertainment, good character analysis (including some Spock and McCoy centered episodes) and hits on some of the long running trek themes (prime directive, fucking up the time line, that sort of thing).

Where No Man Has Gone Before
The Corbomite Maneuver   
The Naked Time
Balance of Terror
The Galileo Seven 
The Menagerie, Part I   
The Menagerie, Part II   
The Squire of Gothos   
Arena   
Tomorrow is Yesterday   
The Return of the Archons   
A Taste of Armageddon 
Space Seed 
Errand of Mercy 
The City on the Edge of Forever   
Amok Time
The Doomsday Machine
The Changeling
The Apple
Mirror, Mirror
I, Mudd
The Trouble with Tribbles
Journey to Babel
A Private Little War
Obsession
The Immunity Syndrome
A Piece of the Action
By Any Other Name
The Ultimate Computer
The Enterprise Incident
The Tholian Web
For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Day of the Dove
Wink of an Eye
Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
All Our Yesterdays


Curious to know what other people would think, additions, subtractions, etc.

[BlobVanDam]

I just skimmed, so I may have missed one you had.

I would add-
The Enemy Within - the original transporter malfunction, and I think it's a fun episode for Kirk.
Mudd's Women - Not as good as I, Mudd, but I think it's still a good episode thanks to Mudd and the chicks.
The Devil in the Dark - it's cheesy, but it has some iconic moments for Spock and McCoy.
The Gamesters of Triskelion - Not one of TOS's best, but still a classic.

And maybe-
This Side of Paradise - I like Spock's turn here, and Kirk dealing with it.
The Deadly Years - not great or anything, but I think it's a fun premise
Whom Gods Destroy - I really like this one. The characters are a lot of fun, and I like the way it plays out.
The Cloud Minders - A solid take on a scifi standard. And there's that chick who goes after Spock.

Wildcard-
Spock's Brain - It's so bad it's good! It's so notorious for being the worst episode, that I think it's a must. It's stupidly fun.


And I would take out-
Tomorrow is Yesterday - I guess I could go either way on this one. The City on the Edge of Forever is the only time travel episodes I consider necessary for TOS. It has a decent theme in there with the guy they pick up, but overall I don't think it's a great episode. Meh, what the hell, looking over some of the episodes I'm suggesting, keep it.
Obsession - A very forgettable episode to me.




I'm surprised that I'd actually mostly add to your list.

[El Barto]

Enemy Within, Devil in the Dark, This Side of Paradise and The Cloud Minders were all on my shortlist, and were the last to get the axe. I wanted it pretty close to half. Like you pointed out, TSoP is a great Spock episode. Always cool to see him un-Spock. That's actually why I included All Our Yesterdays, but that also has the advantage of good Spock/McCoy chemistry. And I agree with the Cloud Minders. I just thought it was a touch heavy-handed (although in comparison to some of their other shows, that's probably not the case). Also worth noting, all three of them demonstrate quite well that Spock always gets the better babes. In this case Mariette Hartley, Jill Ireland and Droxine. Hell, for that reason I'd probably include those two after all.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, Spock got some good ones. And they usually threw themselves at him, rather than the other way around as with Kirk.

As you can see, I just did a quick 10 minute skim of your list and the episodes to check out each episode, so I didn't put as much thought into it as you, but those were the omissions that jumped out at me. It just depends on where you want to draw the line. You've no doubt covered all of the absolutely essential episodes though.

[Progmetty]

I know this thread is not for the TV shows but I'm a newbie wondering where to start in the Star Trek verse, there's like 4 different Star Trek shows on Netflix.

What makes you think that? This thread is for all Star Trek related stuff.

If you're willing to stick with it, I'd go chronologically, which is Star Trek (the original series) + the first 6 movies, followed by The Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, and finally Enterprise (it's a prequel, but I'd say it still works better watched last given when it was made).
If you find the original series too cheesy, you could safely start with The Next Generation, or just watch the movies with the original cast (1 through 6) beforehand if they're on there. But the first movie is very plodding and dull even for most Trekkies.

For some reason I read "The Next Theateration" so I thought the thread was about the new movies heh
They don't have the original series or movies but I'm willing to find it and invest time watching, the only space related show I've seen and enjoyed was BattleStar Galactica and I'm in the mood for more space stuff now.

You're talking about the president of the Egyptian Bonanza Fan Club here. TOS is not going to be too cheesy. In fact, James T. Kirk will probably completely blow his mind.

 
Hey man if I show that quote to the lovely ladies at the Bonanza forums you'll be beaten to death with vintage purses.

Regardless, Blob's is absolutely the way to go. You've got to take them in order. If 726 total episodes is too daunting for you, like if there's some major life-changing event coming down the pike or something, we could probably come up with a list of crucial episodes of each series. That'd probably knock 2/3 off, except for Deep Space Nine which can't be whittled down much at all.

The number of episodes is not daunting to me, one of the reasons I was thinking about this show is that I know there's a lot of it heh

Fantastic. I don't know progmetty's tastes, so I was keeping it pretty general. If that's too much Trek, it could be cut down significantly, but I wasn't going to jump ahead just yet.

Recently I've developed a taste for slow developing simple plotted shows that I use to unwind after a long week day, Bonanza has been my go-to for that. And Suspense and Dragnet on the radio. It's not turning into my main interest or anything and the over-the-top is very entertaining to me hehe

[El Barto]

For some reason I read "The Next Theateration" so I thought the thread was about the new movies heh
They don't have the original series or movies but I'm willing to find it and invest time watching, the only space related show I've seen and enjoyed was BattleStar Galactica and I'm in the mood for more space stuff now.

Normally I'd assume sombebody means the new version of BG, but given your fondness for antiquity (and Lorne Green, now that I think about it), you probably mean the old one. 

Anyhoo, before you run out and buy a bunch of DVDs, download The Corbomite Maneuver and see if it floats your boat. I'm pretty sure it will, but you never know.

[Progmetty]

I saw both BSG's! heh
I'll get The Corbomite Maneuver tonight and see where it goes from there, thanks for the recommendations fellas 

[Progmetty]

Watched The Corbomite Maneuver and starting Where No Man Has Gone Before as soon as I'm done with this post.
To me this show registered as an episode from the second or third Twilight Zone seasons, it's probably the overall vibe of the era that made it feel that way, I liked that though.
It kinda feels like I should have started at the first episode cause here I am watching and not knowing why an alien (Mr. Spock) is among the Enterprise crew, an earth ship with the mission of exploring space for alien life, or why there seem to be people other than the crew living on the exploration ship. But I'll keep going with your recommended episodes and hope it will explain itself.
Few more episodes and if I decided to keep going I'll just watch the entire first season and keep going

[El Barto]

There is no beginning or end with TOS. They just pretty much threw the characters out there and left it to you to figure out. Case in point, Corbomite was actually the first episode they produced, but the 9th aired. Where No Man has Gone Before was actually the pilot for that particular series, and some of the characters are different, so really that's the one out of place. Later on Checkov will just show out out of nowhere, and Yeoman Rand will disappear just as inexplicably. As for Spock, they'll certainly explore his character, and how the Vulcans came to be Humanity's bestest buddies will be explored on down the road in the latter series/movies.

Also, the list I posted is in production order, I believe. I just suggested starting with TCM since WNMHGB is a pilot with some different continuity. Most notably a different doctor, and McCoy is integral to the show as the third part of the Kirk/Spock/McCoy triangle.

[BlobVanDam]

TOS is very episodic, as more shows were back then. You won't gain any more backstory by watching the other/earlier episodes. I watched TOS in completely random order, and I was fine. Except for the fact I started with the best ones and worked my way down.

[Nefarius]

...and worked my way down

There'd be no reason to live long and prosper. 

Greetings...
Nef

[Progmetty]

Makes sense, you know what else from the same era and is very episodic? Bonanza 
I really enjoyed Where No Man Has Gone Before, better than Corbomite IMO. Cool plot and acting, special effects were better than I would have expected from the period.

[BlobVanDam]

Makes sense, you know what else from the same era and is very episodic? Bonanza 
I really enjoyed Where No Man Has Gone Before, better than Corbomite IMO. Cool plot and acting, special effects were better than I would have expected from the period.

It's possible/likely you're seeing the "remastered" version of TOS, where all of the space shots have been replaced with CGI, and they've added a lot of new effects.

[El Barto]

WNMHGB is a real good episode. The fact that Kirk, Spock and Mitchell were all so tight give it some real punch.

And you probably couldn't even download the non-remastered episodes anymore. For the most part it's a big improvement. Most of the changes were kept quite subtle, except when they're firing phasers or showing multiple ships. I can only think of one time were they were a detriment, but plenty where they really made it look a lot better.

[Kotowboy]

The remastered episodes are a great idea for fans of the new films to get into the show.

[Progmetty]

Makes more sense now knowing these episodes are remastered, some of the external CGI scenes looked way too good for the period, I wish I could've got my hands on the original episodes though.
The Naked Time last night, pretty good.

[Kotowboy]

Seeing the word "manoeuvre" in this thread a few times reminded me of that episode of TNG where one of Wesley's friends died in a shuttle accident and you eventually find out it was down to an illegal manoeuvre that would have been a spectacular send off to their Academy years. However - the mroe they lie - the worse it gets and in the end Wesley confesses.

[rumborak]

Ah yes, the Tom Paris episode. Pretty good one.
I want to punch the episode writer in the face though for not allowing the use of the connection. It would have given Paris an immediate depth straight from episode one.

[El Barto]

Ah yes, the Tom Paris episode. Pretty good one.
I want to punch the episode writer in the face though for not allowing the use of the connection. It would have given Paris an immediate depth straight from episode one.

Eh, he just wanted to get payed for inventing the character. Honestly, I'd probably blame Berman more than that guy. He really did kind of did rip him off, ya know.

[Kotowboy]

Preparing for shit storm - but whatever -

Bob Orci on Stsr Trek 3 :

"  I can tell you that it definitely takes place in [deep] space. They’re finally on their five year mission and that hasn’t been the case in any of the previous movies. 

they’re going to hopefully discover some stuff that you haven’t seen before. "

Also he revealed that him directing it isn't set in stone yet.

I'm optimistic. It was allegedly Lindelof who pushed for Khan in the last film and Abrams who wanted the Alice Eve underwear scene.

That and Orci is actually a Trek fan.

They're writing the script now. 2016 is not that far away - so we should start to get drop fed information from now on I reckon.

[rumborak]

@EB: I guess I'm just surprised that a paid writer is able to exert that much control over what I would see as Paramount's IP.

[El Barto]

Well, they weren't just a couple of guys who mailed in a script. Ronald Moore was a head writer and producer, and the other guy was definitely a staff writer. These guys had some pull. Plus, it's not like they were going to use Lacarno once or twice. They were taking their minor character and making him part of the main cast. Easier just to rename him than deal with the legal aspects or pay those two for every single episode.

[BlobVanDam]

Preparing for shit storm - but whatever -

Bob Orci on Stsr Trek 3 :

"  I can tell you that it definitely takes place in [deep] space. They’re finally on their five year mission and that hasn’t been the case in any of the previous movies. 

they’re going to hopefully discover some stuff that you haven’t seen before. "

Also he revealed that him directing it isn't set in stone yet.

I'm optimistic. It was allegedly Lindelof who pushed for Khan in the last film and Abrams who wanted the Alice Eve underwear scene.

That and Orci is actually a Trek fan.

They're writing the script now. 2016 is not that far away - so we should start to get drop fed information from now on I reckon.

I'll wait until I see something tangible before I believe anything just yet, as I recall them saying very different things about the script for the last movie, and then it ended up just being a TWOK wannabe for the 3rd time in a row.
I'm not optimistic about Orci either, but we'll see. You know I'm going to watch it day 1 regardless, so it will get a chance.

[Kotowboy]

Well keeping secrets was very much JJ's thing and Bob has said he's not going to withhold so much info.

JJ admitted keeping Khan a secret was a mistake and I agree - I preferred knowing it was Khan going in.

[Kotowboy]

Preparing for shit storm - but whatever -

Bob Orci on Stsr Trek 3 :

"  I can tell you that it definitely takes place in [deep] space. They’re finally on their five year mission and that hasn’t been the case in any of the previous movies. 

they’re going to hopefully discover some stuff that you haven’t seen before. "

Also he revealed that him directing it isn't set in stone yet.

I'm optimistic. It was allegedly Lindelof who pushed for Khan in the last film and Abrams who wanted the Alice Eve underwear scene.

That and Orci is actually a Trek fan.

They're writing the script now. 2016 is not that far away - so we should start to get drop fed information from now on I reckon.

I'll wait until I see something tangible before I believe anything just yet, as I recall them saying very different things about the script for the last movie, and then it ended up just being a TWOK wannabe for the 3rd time in a row.
I'm not optimistic about Orci either, but we'll see. You know I'm going to watch it day 1 regardless, so it will get a chance.

I don't see ST09 as a TWOK rehash. Nemesis was absolutely and STID borrowed one scene and twisted it to make a thematic point. Nemesis just stole everything for no reason other than they wanted to go out with a bang and tried to Ctrl-C Ctrl-V the entire movie onto the TNG mould.

Kirk had to die in the engine room in STID because it was hinted from the beginning of the movie. He had to learn to be a leader and not put himself first.

B4 was in Nemesis becasue....Because TWOK !

[BlobVanDam]

I don't see ST09 as a TWOK rehash. Nemesis was absolutely and STID borrowed one scene and twisted it to make a thematic point. Nemesis just stole everything for no reason other than they wanted to go out with a bang and tried to Ctrl-C Ctrl-V the entire movie onto the TNG mould.

Kirk had to die in the engine room in STID because it was hinted from the beginning of the movie. He had to learn to be a leader and not put himself first.

B4 was in Nemesis becasue....Because TWOK !

ST11 wasn't so much a rehash, but it still had that idea of bad guy out for generic revenge shtick that reminded me of TWOK. The execution was overall quite different, but the basic idea wasn't fresh. ST11's bad guy was far too poorly written to really compare to the backstory of TWOK though.

Nemesis was much more obvious with the personal thing between Picard and Shinzon, and the ship to ship battle to finish off the movie, and I guess you could even make the comparison that the earlier scenes between Picard and Shinzon mirror Space Seed's table scene to try to recapture the entire dynamic.

ST:ID was literally Khan (at least technically, I don't consider it Khan at all), so that comparison is clear. I still maintain the movie didn't have near enough behind it for that death scene to have any impact, so it only screamed TWOK to me, rather than making its own point.


I'm much more optimistic about JJ's involvement in Star Wars than Star Trek right now. It makes me wonder what could have been if JJ had half the respect for the source material of Star Trek as he does for Star Wars.

[Progmetty]

Just finished The Galileo Seven, Barto that list you made me has kicked ass so far!

McCoy: Mr. Spock, remind me to tell you that I'm sick and tired of your logic!
Spock: That is a most illogical attitude.

 

[El Barto]

That was a good Spock and McCoy episode. I also really liked that Scotty was willing to let Spock take a fair amount of abuse from McCoy since he understood their nature, but he was ready to beat Beaumon's ass when he actually lit into Spock. Scotty became a joke later on, but back then he was a really good character (and always great when he was in command). Anyhoo, coming up is one of the best Spock episodes; loyalty and logic on display. All of the flashback stuff was from the original pilot that didn't make the cut.

[rumborak]

Yeah, kinda interesting how some of the TOS grew to be interesting, complex characters, whereas others became more of a parody of themselves. Kirk and Spock are in the former category for me, and Bones and Scotty in the latter. Scotty was the ship drunkard used for comic relief, whereas Bones essentially ceased being a doctor altogether and just became a grumpy old man who apparently the others didn't mind having around.

[El Barto]

Yeah, I never thought about it before, but McCoy did quit being a doctor once they movies came out. There just wasn't much of a need for one in their 2 hour vignettes. He certainly had work to do during Khan's rampage, but that wasn't much of a plot element. He was on hand when Chekov (another caricature character) cracked his head open in TVH. TUC was probably the only time he really served a purpose as doctor. However, McCoy still served the same purpose through all of the movies;  Spock's counterpart to logic.

[rumborak]

I don't know, when I think of TUC and TVH, Spock had become so normal anyway, the counterweight wasn't necessary anymore.

[Progmetty]

I was half way through the second episode on the list when I realized Uhura is a black woman and not a very tan white woman. Thought it was me then I noticed that every time there's been a black actor on the show so far they've had some sticky looking layer of white coating on their faces, for lack of a better term since I don't know a lot about make up.

[BlobVanDam]

I was half way through the second episode on the list when I realized Uhura is a black woman and not a very tan white woman. Thought it was me then I noticed that every time there's been a black actor on the show so far they've had some sticky looking layer of white coating on their faces, for lack of a better term since I don't know a lot about make up.

How did you not realize she was black? One of my favourite funny moments in TOS is when Space Abraham Lincoln calls her a charming negress. Gotta love '60s television.

I don't know, when I think of TUC and TVH, Spock had become so normal anyway, the counterweight wasn't necessary anymore.

One reason I'm not as fond of Spock's character in the movies, especially by TUC. I think he worked well in TVH though, because everyone was out of their element being in the "past" on Earth.