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General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: Nick on July 15, 2013, 09:45:06 AM

Title: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nick on July 15, 2013, 09:45:06 AM
Old one here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=19285.0

Go!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 15, 2013, 09:50:05 AM
Captain's Log, stargate unknown. We are in orbit around a class M thread, with inhabitants who appear oddly exactly like humans, and even speak English. It is yet to be determined if they display signs of intelligence.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 15, 2013, 09:54:22 AM
(https://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/0803/captain-kirk-demotivational-poster-1205523793.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 15, 2013, 10:03:12 AM
While we're on Kirk images, this is one I made for the last thread a while back.
(https://www.blobvandam.com/link/troll_kirk.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 15, 2013, 10:19:03 AM
So about The Animated Series.  I remember watching it when I was little.  I was impressed with how good the voices were, since I knew that there's no way they'd actually get the original cast to do the voices for the cartoon show.  Turns out they did get most of the original cast, which is why the voices were so good.

I was also impressed with some of the storylines.  Turns out they got a bunch of the original writers on board as well.

Basically, it was another season of The Original Series, but animated rather than live action.  Once you get past the fact that it's animated, it's pretty much TOS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: lonestar on July 15, 2013, 10:23:37 AM
5/5 for the thread title Nick  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 15, 2013, 10:47:31 AM
I'll be mainly partaking in this thread when it is about the movies or TNG.

All discussion about Voyager, Enterprise or DS9 leaves me about as useless as Deanna Troi after she's "sensed" something.


My trekkie friends in school and I always joked about how Troi would only ever look worried then pass out or state the bleedin' obvious.


*Borg Ship appears*

Troi : I can sense you are anxious captain.

NO SHIT SHERLOCK :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on July 15, 2013, 11:43:15 AM
I'll be mainly partaking in this thread when it is about the movies or TNG.

All discussion about Voyager, Enterprise or DS9 leaves me about as useless as Deanna Troi after she's "sensed" something.


My trekkie friends in school and I always joked about how Troi would only ever look worried then pass out or state the bleedin' obvious.


*Borg Ship appears*

Troi : I can sense you are anxious captain.

NO SHIT SHERLOCK :lol

Ditto ... Was only a casual watcher of DS9 and Voyager. Was all over TNG though. Trying to make time for Enterprise at the moment.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 15, 2013, 11:58:08 AM
I watch VOY occasionally but I just don't give a shit about that crew like I do with the TNG crew.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaperKK on July 15, 2013, 01:00:31 PM
Woo for a new thread, I stopped following the other one because I just had too much catch-up reading to do.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 15, 2013, 01:23:58 PM
Every so often i'll watch a voyager episode but they just seem like TNG episodes that never made it to air with a crew I don't care about who can't act that well.


Also :

TOS Movie Ranking

1.The Wrath Of Khan
2.The Undiscovered Country
3.The Voyage Home           

4.The Motion Picture
5.The Search For Spock
6.The Final Frontier

TNG Movie Ranking

1.Generations
2.First Contact
3.Nemesis
4.Insurrection

Alternate Universe Ranking

1.Star Trek (2009)
2.Into Darkness

I'm not sure where Into Darkness sits in my overall Movie Rankings but it's definitely top 5.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 15, 2013, 04:11:48 PM
I've noticed that every time someone from Starfleet comes aboard 1701-D - they *always* arrive in an Excelsior class ship . ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 15, 2013, 04:29:25 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1001874_703141423048647_1274028223_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 15, 2013, 04:37:50 PM
Plus automatic sliding doors.



Also : fuck yea Star Trek.  :metal
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 15, 2013, 04:45:50 PM
That's pretty much true, really.  I saw a thing on Discovery or History Channel or one of those about how sci-fi writers have "predicted" tech for the past century.  But they turned it around, and what really happens is that inventors and R&D guys look to sci-fi for inspiration.  The most well-known example is the waterbed, a concept which first appeared in a (I think it was) Heinlein novel.  Sci-fi writers have come up with all kinds of cool stuff which may or may not be possible, and techies come up with a way to actually make them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 15, 2013, 04:47:42 PM
Except the 1973 Cell phone wouldn't fit in your pocket. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 15, 2013, 04:57:43 PM
That's pretty much true, really.  I saw a thing on Discovery or History Channel or one of those about how sci-fi writers have "predicted" tech for the past century.  But they turned it around, and what really happens is that inventors and R&D guys look to sci-fi for inspiration.  The most well-known example is the waterbed, a concept which first appeared in a (I think it was) Heinlein novel.  Sci-fi writers have come up with all kinds of cool stuff which may or may not be possible, and techies come up with a way to actually make them.

it *would* be a Heinlein novel...  ::)  :laugh:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 15, 2013, 04:59:13 PM
Except the 1973 Cell phone wouldn't fit in your pocket. :lol

Yeah, 1993 would've been much closer.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 15, 2013, 05:09:30 PM
Except the 1973 Cell phone wouldn't fit in your pocket. :lol

Yeah, 1993 would've been much closer.

That's what I was thinking.  '73 is REALLY early for cell phones...  We were still getting Bell Telephone demos about how to use dialing phones (third grade, here) and the wonderful future of *VIDEO* phones!!!   :omg:  ;D

(https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/VideoPhone_8235.jpg)

That's what we were to look forward to!   :justjen
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 15, 2013, 05:13:55 PM
Not that I want to rain on ST's parade, but all those predictions were kind of obvious at the time. All those devices had real-life equivalents in this days:
Communicator = Walkie Talkie
IPad = CRT monitor

all of which had one obvious issue: size. The industry had been laboring towards smaller sizes, ST just followed it to the logical end.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 15, 2013, 08:54:46 PM
iPads are also wireless.  Obviously radio was around, so the idea of a wireless handheld screen wasn't too far-fetched, but the fact is that they didn't exist yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on July 15, 2013, 09:58:20 PM
I would definitely agree that sci-fi has influence design.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 15, 2013, 11:11:21 PM
What Orbert said. But a lot of it wasn't an issue of coming up with the ideas either, it was an issue of not having the technology to pull it off.

Not to mention that touch screen devices were around a long time before Apple turned them into the latest fad anyway. It was not a crazy futuristic idea, even at the time TNG was doing it, so that wasn't really a prediction.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on July 15, 2013, 11:44:41 PM
My Movie listing....


1.Into Darkness
2.Star Trek (2009)
3.The Wrath Of Khan
4.The Voyage Home
5.The Search For Spock
6.First Contact
7.The Motion Picture
8.Generations   
9.Nemesis     
10.The Undiscovered Country
11.The Final Frontier
12.Insurrection


As far as the ST invention/influence..  The flip communicators of TOS vs. circa 2000 cell phones is spot on.  Yes mobile phones in theory wasn't a leap in 1966, but flip phones the same size and open to use like a communicator? Brilliant!   Also the ipad vs. the early 90's TNG tablet awesome!



Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 16, 2013, 04:27:57 AM
10. The Undiscovered Country below Nemesis ?!

 :) Whatever floats yer boat I suppose. I don't mind Nemesis but TUC is top 3 for me easily.





+ Damon Lindelof was saying how do you use something from TOS Trek but still make it look futuristic - even though in reality we don't even use flip phones anymore and you have to make the Enterprise look like the Enterprise bridge but not have buttons and dials everywhere. It's an odd one. In the 1960's they had to imagine a future based on current tech, but now in the 2010's we have to not only try and honour classic trek tech but also not make it look really old school.  You end up with a 1701 that looks more futuristic than 1701-D, but as technology in reality gets better and better, you have to imagine what a starship in 200 years would look like.

+ Finally : Chris Pine let slip recently that they're all contracted to do " At least four movies ". This makes me happy. This means we have two more movies to look forward to. I don't think they'll end up doing six movies like the original cast but four would do me, if they were all as good as the first two. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: CrimsonSunrise on July 16, 2013, 06:18:00 AM
That is awesome news fo sho!  :tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 16, 2013, 06:23:44 AM
Being contracted for four movies doesn't guarantee there will be four movies though, does it? It just means that if Paramount decide to do a 3rd/4th movie, that the cast is under contract to do them.

I'm hoping they stop at a third (I'd prefer they stop now, but since ID was popular, that isn't going to happen). It took them forever just to give us an empty rehash of old Trek, so I don't feel like they have much to offer other than yet another mindless action movie. I want JJ far away from Trek asap, so they can get a show started that is more in the spirit of Trek. It could be just what the dead scifi scene needs right now.

I miss scifi. :(
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaperKK on July 16, 2013, 06:41:46 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1001874_703141423048647_1274028223_n.jpg)

That last picture of Picard is one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 16, 2013, 10:30:12 AM
Being contracted for four movies doesn't guarantee there will be four movies though, does it? It just means that if Paramount decide to do a 3rd/4th movie, that the cast is under contract to do them.

I'm hoping they stop at a third (I'd prefer they stop now, but since ID was popular, that isn't going to happen). It took them forever just to give us an empty rehash of old Trek, so I don't feel like they have much to offer other than yet another mindless action movie. I want JJ far away from Trek asap, so they can get a show started that is more in the spirit of Trek. It could be just what the dead scifi scene needs right now.

I miss scifi. :(


Well $450m means now more people enjoy Trek than ever before. And i'm totally fine with that.

Also, i've been a trek fan since I can remember and I adored Star Trek AND Into Darkness.

You don't have to watch the next one. I will see it on opening day and judge it on it's own merits like I have with the previous two films.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 16, 2013, 10:30:43 AM
That is awesome news fo sho!  :tup


:hifive:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 16, 2013, 08:49:28 PM
Being contracted for four movies doesn't guarantee there will be four movies though, does it? It just means that if Paramount decide to do a 3rd/4th movie, that the cast is under contract to do them.

I'm hoping they stop at a third (I'd prefer they stop now, but since ID was popular, that isn't going to happen). It took them forever just to give us an empty rehash of old Trek, so I don't feel like they have much to offer other than yet another mindless action movie. I want JJ far away from Trek asap, so they can get a show started that is more in the spirit of Trek. It could be just what the dead scifi scene needs right now.

I miss scifi. :(


Well $450m means now more people enjoy Trek than ever before. And i'm totally fine with that.

Also, i've been a trek fan since I can remember and I adored Star Trek AND Into Darkness.

You don't have to watch the next one. I will see it on opening day and judge it on it's own merits like I have with the previous two films.

It made $450m by appealing to the lowest common denominator, as most big budget Hollywood movies do, which means any care for depth or plot or science is out the window. I've only been a fan since shortly before ST11, so its weaknesses were on its own merit, not because of any comparison to TOS, which I hadn't even seen a single episode of at that point (and which I heavily criticize in this thread anyway :lol ). I still enjoyed both movies as empty action movies though.

It's just a shame that seemingly few of the fans of the new movies have actually become converted Trek fans since (in my own experience that is. I'm not doubting they exist). If I had a dollar for every person who said "I liked the new movies and I don't even like Trek........"  :\ What an absolute shocker!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 16, 2013, 10:38:51 PM
I don't want to use the term because it's so cliché, but there's that sad aftertaste of "sell-out" when it comes to the last two movies. There's nothing wrong with trying to appeal to a large audience. But with those movies I didn't really feel I was watching a Star Trek movie. More a CGI SciFi movie that had familiar characters.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 17, 2013, 08:07:53 AM
I feel the opposite. It felt like Trek to me with a decent budget.

I bet if TNG had $200m to spend on their movies they'd look the same too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 17, 2013, 08:27:40 AM
Plus it doesn't matter what I say or how much I liked them - i'll always be "wrong" according to Some people on this board who feel like they need to be right about everything.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 17, 2013, 09:30:08 AM
Plus it doesn't matter what I say or how much I liked them - i'll always be "wrong" according to Some people on this board who feel like they need to be right about everything.
No, you're wrong.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on July 17, 2013, 10:23:15 AM
Plus it doesn't matter what I say or how much I liked them - i'll always be "wrong" according to Some people on this board who feel like they need to be right about everything.
No, you're wrong.

You're doing it right.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 18, 2013, 08:57:53 PM
I just wish you guys weren't liars.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 10:55:08 AM
No matter what you think of JJ's Star Trek prequels - I don't think anyone is in any doubt that they're not even in the same league of awful as George Lucas' Star Wars Prequels...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 20, 2013, 11:01:00 AM
To be fair, that's not much of a benchmark. :lol

I also have no doubt that JJ's Star Wars are going to be a buttload better than the PT too. I actually have pretty high expectations for them. But I guess that's a discussion for the SW thread!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 11:35:22 AM
I might actually go and see Episode 7 purely because JJ is directing. He definitely knows how to tell a story and get great performances form his actors. Two things George could never do.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 20, 2013, 12:49:46 PM
To be fair, that's not much of a benchmark. :lol

I also have no doubt that JJ's Star Wars are going to be a buttload better than the PT too. I actually have pretty high expectations for them. But I guess that's a discussion for the SW thread!

I'm expecting them to be even better than the ST reboot, because I fully believe what Simon Pegg said (I *think* it was Simon Pegg...might have been someone else)...that JJ's natural story telling style (and pace) is better suited to the natural flow of SW than ST.   So as good as the ST reboot was, I have even higher expectations for the new SW movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 20, 2013, 12:53:59 PM
To be fair, that's not much of a benchmark. :lol

I also have no doubt that JJ's Star Wars are going to be a buttload better than the PT too. I actually have pretty high expectations for them. But I guess that's a discussion for the SW thread!

I'm expecting them to be even better than the ST reboot, because I fully believe what Simon Pegg said (I *think* it was Simon Pegg...might have been someone else)...that JJ's natural story telling style (and pace) is better suited to the natural flow of SW than ST.   So as good as the ST reboot was, I have even higher expectations for the new SW movies.

I fully agree that JJ's style is much (much) better suited to SW than ST, so I think JJ will be the right man for the job here.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 20, 2013, 03:55:13 PM
My wife is watching Nemesis on SyFy right now.   I'm reminded of how absolutely terrible this movie is.

The #1 issue I have is (IMO) the greatest and biggest plot failure in the history of the ST universe....and it's not the one(s of many) that most people discuss.

As great an actor as Tom Hardy is (and I will even admit that the interactions between he and Stewart are among the very brief decent parts of the film) the character of Shinzon is simply NOT believable as a genetic alternate of Picard in any way, shape or form.   The whole premise is actually extremely promising.   But the movie asks you to take a bald head, and a rare genetic disorder as proof that this is the genetic identical twin of Jean-Luc.   But no matter how different their lives were, it would have been SO much more compelling if there had been some similarities in their personalities.    When Picard mentions that it's like looking into a mirror, it's a purely physical memory (and as much as they tried...it's not even accurate).     The real story here would have been if both characters saw enough of themselves in one another to force them to look at themselves closer.   If Shinzon would have seen the kind diplomat in himself, if Picard would have been forced to acknowledge the darker sides of himself...the bitterness that *may* have grown and altered him if he had let it (which would have had even more compelling ramifications considering the bitterness and anger he had just dealt with in his war on the Borg in FC....could have even referenced that movie). 

I suppose what bothers me the most is that NONE of the ST movies showed so much promise, and yet was so completely botched on such a colossal level so as very nearly to destroy an entire franchise....and rightly so...it really is *THAT* bad.    Combine that with the fact that you really knew this cast was getting older, and that going in, you knew it would most likely be their final film...it just made it that much more of a travesty.  To have such an amazing ensemble go out with a horrible thud.    Especially after what I felt was ST's most under-rated film Insurrection.  (an AMAZING film with a lot of heart...it really doesn't get enough respect).

And speaking of Insurrection, I really think they gave up on Frakes as a director too quickly.   This is the man that had just delivered *THE* most popular movie of the TNG cast.   Yet he had one follow-up that underperformed (but by most people's standards was not a *bad* film...just meh) and they pull the plug on him as a director.   I really believe that he deserved one more crack at directing the tenth film....but, woulda coulda shoulda.   

Nemesis just failed on every single possible level.   Story, direction, execution.....such an absolutely terrible movie.  It's not just bad ST, it's bad sci-fi all the way around. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 20, 2013, 04:00:59 PM
I totally agree that Shinzon being a mirror image of Picard was just not believable, not for a second. He didn't look it, he showed no classic Picard character traits. Some obscure genetic disease didn't sway me a bit.
Honestly, I think they should have shelved the script based on that they couldn't find an actor who looked the part.

And besides...

(https://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050918033139/memoryalpha/en/images/9/96/Jean-Luc_Picard_stabbed.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 20, 2013, 04:51:47 PM
These comments are so helpful in deciding which ST offerings to see.  I haven't seen probably 90% of what's out there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on July 20, 2013, 04:56:16 PM
I think all of them are worth watching at least once.

Yes, even Generations, Nemesis and The Final Frontier are worth watching once.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on July 20, 2013, 05:44:54 PM
I don't have as much of a hate on for Nemesis as most.  Yeah, the B4 sub-plot was bad (as was the cinematography on the planet they found him... holy glare!).  And while I love the Shinzon character and Hardy's acting, I agree completely that the believably of them being genetic clones was just not there.  And the mind-rape between Troi and the other dude was dumb.

hhhmmm... the more I think about it, the shittier the movie gets!

gotta find some time to go thru DS9, Voyager and Enterprise from scratch.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 20, 2013, 06:05:10 PM
I don't have as much of a hate on for Nemesis as most.  Yeah, the B4 sub-plot was bad (as was the cinematography on the planet they found him... holy glare!).  And while I love the Shinzon character and Hardy's acting, I agree completely that the believably of them being genetic clones was just not there.  And the mind-rape between Troi and the other dude was dumb.

hhhmmm... the more I think about it, the shittier the movie gets!

gotta find some time to go thru DS9, Voyager and Enterprise from scratch.

Yeah...the movie was terrible enough in its execution of the main plot to warrant being the worst of all the ST films....the B4 and Troi rape subplots just serve to bring it down even further.   The whole movie really just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

EDIT:  It's pretty safe to say that Nemesis was one of the few movies (not just ST movies...but movies entirely) that actively pissed me off with how poorly it was done.     I didn't go in with "pie in the sky" hope, but I didn't go in thinking it would be terrible either.   I had really enjoyed FC and IS, and the premise of Nemesis sounded very intriguing.   They may as well have just handed it to Uwe Boll....he could not POSSIBLY have done a worse job than Stuart Baird.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 06:29:22 PM
 :blush :blush

I like Nemesis.


I watched it again recently with no preconceptions and found myself enjoying it all the way through.

I found Insurrection quite boring actually.


Here's a quick poll :

Best TNG Movie Villain ?

1.Soran
2.Ru'afo
3.Borg Queen
4.Shinzon
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 20, 2013, 06:49:36 PM
:blush :blush

I like Nemesis.


I watched it again recently with no preconceptions and found myself enjoying it all the way through.

I found Insurrection quite boring actually.


Here's a quick poll :

Best TNG Movie Villain ?

1.Soran
2.Ru'afo
3.Borg Queen
4.Shinzon

I disagree with everything except the order of your villians.   I just find it fascinating that in spite of your defense of Nemesis and criticism of Insurrection, you place Shinzon last and Ru'afo second only to Soran. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 06:51:31 PM
Sorry. It wasn't a ranking - I was just listing them in order for others to rank :)

But Soran is my favourite.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 20, 2013, 06:53:09 PM
Even I know that making a list of anything in this forum is automatically a ranking!   :loser:  ;)  :D

How long you been here, kotowboy???   :o   :D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 20, 2013, 06:54:10 PM
Ya...and you even numbered them.   And NOT in chronological order either.   Wassup with that?   :angel:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 06:55:43 PM
Ya...and you even numbered them.   And NOT in chronological order either.   Wassup with that?   :angel:

Because I was considering whether to include the Borg Queen as a single villain seeing as the Borg are a collective.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 20, 2013, 06:56:37 PM
The Trekker OCD force is strong in this thread...   :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 07:07:36 PM
The Trekker OCD force is strong in this thread...   :P

DCO are my intials !  :omg:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 20, 2013, 07:12:11 PM
The Trekker OCD force is strong in this thread...   :P

DCO are my intials !  :omg:

Oh the irony of having the initials be out of order.   :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 20, 2013, 07:15:59 PM
The Trekker OCD force is strong in this thread...   :P

DCO are my intials !  :omg:

Oh the irony of having the initials be out of order.   :rollin

Truly magnificent!!!   :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 07:17:55 PM
Not really - i've shown i don't care for standard procedure.


I'm literally reverse OCD.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 20, 2013, 07:19:30 PM
HA!  In some ways...even better!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 20, 2013, 07:20:44 PM
Not really - i've shown i don't care for standard procedure.


I'm literally reverse OCD.


Especially in the DT Cover Art thread!  ;)  You rebel, you...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 07:20:51 PM
My initials basically describe me :P

I don't have OCD - I go out of my way to *not* do things exactly right.

;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 07:21:41 PM
Not really - i've shown i don't care for standard procedure.


I'm literally reverse OCD.


Especially in the DT Cover Art thread!  ;)  You rebel, you...

:p I just snapped. I was getting tired of certain people acting like mods that aren't and disagreeing with almost everything.

:)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 07:22:24 PM
So, how about that new Star trek Film ? :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 20, 2013, 07:22:36 PM
My initials basically describe me :P

I don't have OCD - I go out of my way to *not* do things exactly right.

;D

hmmm...is that a compulsion with you..?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 07:24:00 PM
My initials basically describe me :P

I don't have OCD - I go out of my way to *not* do things exactly right.

;D

hmmm...is that a compulsion with you..?

Well I'm the type of person that doesn't like following trends. E.g. I've never smoked or been drunk. I've never worn what's "in". I'll never wear skintight jeans for example. Or vans, Converse etc.... I am sceptical of any kind of enforced conformity.

If 100 people say something is amazing - and i think it's shit - i'll say it's shit.

I'm not the type of guy that goes " um...well..i guess it was ok.. "

I really don't care what people think of me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 20, 2013, 07:29:29 PM
My initials basically describe me :P

I don't have OCD - I go out of my way to *not* do things exactly right.

;D

hmmm...is that a compulsion with you..?

Well I'm the type of person that doesn't like following trends. E.g. I've never smoked or been drunk. I've never worn what's "in". I'll never wear skintight jeans for example. Or vans, Converse etc.... I am sceptical of any kind of enforced conformity.

I've never smoked or been drunk, either.  Skintight jeans are pretty much an extremely risky fashion choice for most.  As for Converse -- those were the shoes of my childhood -- I like them regardless of if they are in style or not.

I feel safe in saying that I like what I like...following trends have never been something I do.  If I happen to like something that's currently a trend, then great.  I'm not a crowd follower -- nor do I really make a big deal about not being one.  I am what I am.    :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 07:32:40 PM
:clap:

Trends make me really angry :lol

Seeing dozens of bands that all look and sound identical. And they all play Rickenbacker basses and play drums the Exact same way.  And all the singers sing in the same register all the time for every song. Even if they physically can't reach the notes.

I once went to see a friends band and it was a hardcore night and EVERY FUCKING GUY in the venue was wearing a red checked shirt :lol :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 20, 2013, 07:36:16 PM
I look at people following trends and i'm all


" I...am....Better. "

BOOM ! BACK ON TRACK !!

Star Trek Into Darkness. Cumberbatch was awesome in that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on July 20, 2013, 07:44:15 PM
All that!

And I do really want to see "Into Darkness" again.    :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 22, 2013, 06:01:32 PM
Just seen the episode where the Enterprise is getting a Baryon sweep and Data practices small talk with that Starfleet officer.

The scene where he is mocking the Starfleet officer by practicing small talk on Crusher and Riker sounds like an ad lib because Frakes' laughing sounds completely genuine.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 22, 2013, 06:57:24 PM
From anything I've heard, impersonations are Spiner's strong suit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 22, 2013, 07:00:41 PM
From anything I've heard, impersonations are Spiner's strong suit.

if you watch that scene - it sounds like Frakes is actually laughing at Brent and not Riker laughing at Data if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 22, 2013, 07:09:26 PM
Didn't really see that, but if you watch the scene immediately after, when PS tries to exit through a wall rather than a sliding door, you can see him start to crack up as he leaves shot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 22, 2013, 07:11:23 PM
Haha ! I'll have to check it out.


I love how they all get on in real life. It would be heart breaking if you found out they all hated each other.



Edit : watched that scene again and I stand by what I said and you see Patrick smile as he walks off screen but I wouldn't say cracking up :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 23, 2013, 06:20:07 PM
Watching the TNG episode right now where all the kids, and Wesley, are kidnapped by that infertile race.
What a shoddy plot. While the premise itself is not too bad (a race stealing children for procreation), the act of including Wesley, who at that point must be 16 or something, makes no sense. On top of that they give him the most sweeping permissions.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 25, 2013, 12:58:03 PM
 :rollin

Just watched " The Chase. "

The scene where the Klingon captain challenges Data to what is ostensibly an arm wrestle and Data beats him instantly and immediately goes back to his work with that nonchalant look on his face.

So funny.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 25, 2013, 02:06:04 PM
Oooh, I love that scene. He immediately returns to typing on his pad.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 25, 2013, 02:07:58 PM
I liked when he got all pissy because Data was so materoffact about the bribe offer.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 25, 2013, 02:22:39 PM
I liked when he got all pissy because Data was so materoffact about the bribe offer.

The biggest laughs on the show always come from Brent. His acting is just so perfect as Data. I can't think of anyone else who has portrayed an android so perfectly and convincingly.

Special mentions to Lance Henriksen as Bishop & Michael Fassbender as David.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 03, 2013, 06:25:55 PM
Darmok and Jelad At Tanagra !  :angry: :angry:!!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 03, 2013, 08:27:05 PM
Great episode overall. The premise is a bit sketchy though (how much information can you seriously transmit if even a simple concept requires a long-winded simile?).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on August 04, 2013, 12:08:12 AM
I got my hands on the entire DS9 series a couple of months ago and finished watching the series recently. For any of you that might have some reservations about checking the series out, I highly recommend it. At times it's on par with TNG and at it's worst is still superior to Voyager. Sisko is a little bit over the top at times and it takes some getting used to, but I was thoroughly entertained with the series and will probably watch it all the way through again in the not too distant future.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 06:11:43 AM
Great episode overall. The premise is a bit sketchy though (how much information can you seriously transmit if even a simple concept requires a long-winded simile?).

I *knew* that the alien captain was familiar. had to look him up on line to find out he was Captain Terell (?) from The Wrath Of Khan.

Once you knew that - it was unmistakable.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 06:12:42 AM
I got my hands on the entire DS9 series a couple of months ago and finished watching the series recently. For any of you that might have some reservations about checking the series out, I highly recommend it. At times it's on par with TNG and at it's worst is still superior to Voyager. Sisko is a little bit over the top at times and it takes some getting used to, but I was thoroughly entertained with the series and will probably watch it all the way through again in the not too distant future.

I plan to once I am done with TNG. :)

I put on Voyager every once in a while but unless it's a great episode - I just can't be bothered. None of the bridge crew have anything on their TNG counterparts.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 06:26:26 AM
I got my hands on the entire DS9 series a couple of months ago and finished watching the series recently. For any of you that might have some reservations about checking the series out, I highly recommend it. At times it's on par with TNG and at it's worst is still superior to Voyager. Sisko is a little bit over the top at times and it takes some getting used to, but I was thoroughly entertained with the series and will probably watch it all the way through again in the not too distant future.

I plan to once I am done with TNG. :)

I put on Voyager every once in a while but unless it's a great episode - I just can't be bothered. None of the bridge crew have anything on their TNG counterparts.

Oh I'd take Tuvok whichever equivalent. And I'd definitely take the doc over his counterpart (I know he's not bridge crew though). Not sure if 7 of 9 has an exact counterpart, but throw her in for good measure too!
I also prefer Voyager's counterpart for Troi. And yes, I'm aware Voyager didn't have a ship councilor. :neverusethis:

So Kotowboy, going by that post, have you seen DS9 before?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 06:34:08 AM
I have. I used to watch it every week back when it was on BBC2. But once it started being a series arc and not individual episodes - i kinda gave up on it.

My friend and I in school used to talk about DS9 every week after it was on and always do impressions of Odo's annoyed grunt :lol

" Hmph ! "

From memory - Best DS9 episode I can remember is the one where that Cardassian janitor pretended to be an officer so he could get killed to make up for the atrocities against Bajor - great episode.

Worst episode from memory - Move Along Home. It's even worse than that Voyager episode with Michael McKean as a court jester.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 06:36:41 AM
Additional - If I was called

" Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi "

I would change it to Alexander Siddig too :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 06:39:04 AM
I didn't mind Move Along Home, although it seems most people dislike it. It wasn't one of the better episodes by any means, but I felt all of DS9 was pretty solid. The worst episode for me was the S7 episode where they play baseball instead of caring about the entire Federation being conquered. (I'm sorry for spoiling the cruddiest episode of DS9 in advance :P )

DS9 is well worth the commitment, and it just gets better and better (except for portions of S7). The Dominion arc episodes of S6 and S7 are some of Trek's best.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 07:03:02 AM
I did like it in the beginning. I could never tell whether Avery Brooks was a good actor or not.

He over acted way more than Shatner ever did.

Although he may have improved - his acting in the pilot was pretty awful. I wonder how he got the part ?


Maybe he felt the same as Pat Stewart did in the first season of TNG - he thought it would fail and you can tell he wasn't really into it - and improved once the show was a success...?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 07:07:37 AM
His acting in the pilot when he's in the dream with his dead wife was a bit off the wall, but overall I think that's about how he was overall in the series.
I actually like the theatric over-acting for the captains. It was a bit hammy from Kirk considering the crap he was spouting, but it's also what makes these characters larger than life and memorable. The under-actors bother me more. I'M LOOKING AT YOU CHAKOTAY.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 07:17:53 AM
Chakotay was relaxed and groovy but I wouldn't say he was a poor *actor* - as in he sounded plain bad...

He's probably just a chill guy in reality :P

Garrett Wang was probably worse. Of course none of them are in the same class as Patrick Stewart & Jonathan Frakes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 07:25:11 AM
Mr Kim was terrible too, but Chakotay wasn't great, especially when he tried to be forceful and get off his ass for once. He was more passable in the day to day stuff though.

The Doc was the major saving grace of the cast, and save it he did. :heart And Janeway was great too. Haters gonna hate. :hatersgonnahate:

But who can compare to Sir Patrick Stewart? The man is a god. A chrome domed god.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 07:33:02 AM
Janeway was pretty decent.

Plus you have to remember that shooting on episodes could take up to 18 hours a day.

By the end of it - they may have been a level of " let's just get this line then we can go. "

But yeah - from watching TNG a lot recently - i'd say that Frakes was almost as good as Stewart. He's really under rated as Riker.

Worf and Data were both awesome too provided they didn't stray too far from their character. Dorn and Spiner both had

perfect comic sensibilities & any humorous scene which involved either Worf or Data was usually hysterical.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 07:41:04 AM
Riker was great. I always liked him. Data was perfect too.
I'm very mixed on Worf though. I thought he was a bit wooden, but it mostly worked for the character. And he certainly had his funny moments.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 07:42:54 AM
I was shocked when I heard Michael Dorns' real voice. It was almost nothing like Worf.

Obviously - Dorn was projecting a big deep baritone for Worf but his real voice is really different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIyam3Ivz9E
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 07:47:25 AM
Yeah, that's always jarring. It's not just the depth, but also the more formal and deliberate vocal pattern of his acting vs natural speech. That's the standard approach for "aliens". They just speak more formally. :lol

It's the same with Christopher Judge (Teal'c) from Stargate. It sounds completely wrong to me to hear his normal voice, because his in-character voice was so deep and commanding.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 07:50:45 AM
Plus Worf doesn't sound as American. He *almost* sounds as if he's putting on a sliiiight English accent.

Maybe to make Worf''s accent un-placeable ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 07:56:14 AM
They definitely ease up on the American accent and make it a bit softer and neutral. It's a conscious thing. As silly as it is, that slight difference in accent helps it seem slightly less obvious that everybody is speaking the same language. You can't have an alien with a regional southern twang or something (although I'm sure there are some hilarious exceptions).

Assuming they're only speaking English via the universal translator, in theory it should have a broad and generic accent, right?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 08:13:11 AM
I'm assuming that Worf can speak English seeing as he went thru Starfleet.

I always wonder how the Universal Translator works. Does everyone hear what the alien next to them is saying through their comm badges ? :P


p.s. yes I know it's just a quick and easy fix for saying " this is how all aliens can speak English " :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 08:15:10 AM
The universal translator is one of those contrivances I find is just best not to question, and to just accept for what it is. They even see the person speaking English. I'm not buying any explanation for that. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 08:20:38 AM
Well at least they have an in-universe tech reason for it and don't just dismiss it like other inferior shows would.


besides - Worf *must* be speaking English for those times when he says a Klingon word to describe a situation and it isn't translated :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 08:26:09 AM
Well at least they have an in-universe tech reason for it and don't just dismiss it like other inferior shows would.

If that's a dig at Stargate, imma hunt you down and force you to watch it on repeat! (another example where I just have to accept the contrivance for the sake of fitting any sort of story into 45 minutes)

besides - Worf *must* be speaking English for those times when he says a Klingon word to describe a situation and it isn't translated :lol

There are plenty of similar situations that just don't work. And we know for a fact that the Ferengi of the show can't speak a lick of English from Little Green Men (which is a pretty neat episode too).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 04, 2013, 09:04:43 AM
I really hated Riker at first. In retrospect, he's the only one of that entire cast with a shred of humanity in him. The rest are all superficial avatars of people.

Michael Dorn was a pretty bad actor. He's perfectly fine as Worf, because he invented the character. Anytime he was somebody else he was terrible. Almost all of the DS9 cast had that problem. That's why the mirror universe episodes all sucked. You could tell they were having a good time playing different versions of themselves, but they mostly sucked at it, honestly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 09:06:46 AM
I really hated Riker at first.

Admit it; it was the lack of beard, wasn't it?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 04, 2013, 09:30:44 AM
Nah, that's far more applicable to Sisko. In Riker's case, it was a lack of character, until I noticed that even he had far more than anybody else on the show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaperKK on August 04, 2013, 11:12:52 AM
I really hated Riker at first.

Admit it; it was the lack of beard, wasn't it?

Riker became at least 47% more badass with the beard.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2013, 06:47:14 PM
Well at least they have an in-universe tech reason for it and don't just dismiss it like other inferior shows would.

If that's a dig at Stargate, imma hunt you down and force you to watch it on repeat! (another example where I just have to accept the contrivance for the sake of fitting any sort of story into 45 minutes)

besides - Worf *must* be speaking English for those times when he says a Klingon word to describe a situation and it isn't translated :lol

There are plenty of similar situations that just don't work. And we know for a fact that the Ferengi of the show can't speak a lick of English from Little Green Men (which is a pretty neat episode too).



Aside from the first movie - I've never seen any Stargate.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 04, 2013, 07:32:57 PM
There are plenty of similar situations that just don't work. And we know for a fact that the Ferengi of the show can't speak a lick of English from Little Green Men (which is a pretty neat episode too).
Watched this last night, coincidentally. Silly but entertaining. Interesting that throughout all of the Ferengi gibberish you still heard the word oomax, which is the one Ferengi word everybody knows.  :lol

However, I thought that was a serious undermining of the UT. They suggest that they're placed inside everybody's ear, yet apparently only one person needs it for two way communication. Fixing the one in Quark's ear automatically makes humans capable of understanding his speech. Like plenty of ST tech, it was better when it was left vague and unexplained.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 09:37:41 PM
There are plenty of similar situations that just don't work. And we know for a fact that the Ferengi of the show can't speak a lick of English from Little Green Men (which is a pretty neat episode too).
Watched this last night, coincidentally. Silly but entertaining. Interesting that throughout all of the Ferengi gibberish you still heard the word oomax, which is the one Ferengi word everybody knows.  :lol

However, I thought that was a serious undermining of the UT. They suggest that they're placed inside everybody's ear, yet apparently only one person needs it for two way communication. Fixing the one in Quark's ear automatically makes humans capable of understanding his speech. Like plenty of ST tech, it was better when it was left vague and unexplained.

As bad as that is, they've established a few other times that only one side of the conversation needs the universal translator (I can think of examples from at least DS9 and Voyager), so at least it's consistently wrong.

Considering how flawed the tech is to begin with, I'm willing to mostly overlook the issue, given that it's rarely brought up except for times like this when it serves the plot. I agree it was better left vague and unexplained due to the problems, more of a "there's an explanation, but we're not gonna explain it", but I'm not too bothered by it either.

There are bigger problems with the concept of the translator. Translating in real-time simply would not work, given sentence structure variation between languages. And there's the inconsistency of certain words remaining in native language seemingly selectively. And as mentioned earlier, the whole idea of seeing the mouth move in a different language. And the one that bothers me the most is when you see the translator dealing with an entirely new language, where it's a matter of the universal translator hearing the language for just a few minutes and calculating a "translation matrix" and then suddenly it knows the whole language. Again, I know the translator has to move at the speed of plot, but the concept of a translator calculating a formula to instantly recognize new words such as nouns that have never been used before is ridiculous. It could pick up basic syntax and common words quickly, but there's a realistic limit there.

I've always been a tech man when it comes to scifi, so it's a bit of a double edged sword for me when they deal with the universal translator. On one hand, I do prefer to see the tech side acknowledged, and get an idea for the "rules" the show works within, but on the other hand, it does bother me when things aren't internally consistent like that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 04, 2013, 10:47:10 PM
I work on realtime translation software for work actually, so it's kinda interesting to see you guys discuss this :lol
But yes, many inherent issues with a UT. Different word orders in languages dictate a minimum latency in translation. As an example, there is a much-hated-by-foreigners feature of German where you leave the verb to the very end of the sentence. E.g. "I have the apple that was on the table, the one bought yesterday ... eaten." Since English syntax requires the verb to appear much earlier, you can't start the English translation before you heard the last German word.
The only thing that would work would be a device that scans the brain of the speaker and utters the translation straight from the thought, v not through the spoken part.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 10:51:25 PM
I didn't know that about German. :lol But I know a lot of languages place the adjective after the noun, rather than before, which creates a similar problem on a smaller scope.

And that's human languages on the same planet. Who knows how much variation an entirely alien language would have?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 04, 2013, 11:06:19 PM
Let alone completely untranslatable terms, like a cultural practice like "Ramadan". English was just forced to take the Arabic word wholesale because there was no possible English translation for it.
Martin Luther decided to use the Germanic term "hell" as a translation of Hades, and thus introduced Norse mythology aspects into Christianity.
So yeah, to a good degree translation is an unsolvable problem.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on August 04, 2013, 11:07:43 PM
I work on realtime translation software for work actually, so it's kinda interesting to see you guys discuss this :lol
But yes, many inherent issues with a UT. Different word orders in languages dictate a minimum latency in translation. As an example, there is a much-hated-by-foreigners feature of German where you leave the verb to the very end of the sentence. E.g. "I have the apple that was on the table, the one bought yesterday ... eaten." Since English syntax requires the verb to appear much earlier, you can't start the English translation before you heard the last German word.
The only thing that would work would be a device that scans the brain of the speaker and utters the translation straight from the thought, v not through the spoken part.

I took a year of German in highschool and this is one of the things that always tripped me up.

One of the things that I liked about Enterprise is where they tried to show how the UT was first coming into use and how they struggled with it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 11:11:37 PM
Let alone completely untranslatable terms, like a cultural practice like "Ramadan". English was just forced to take the Arabic word wholesale because there was no possible English translation for it.

And then there are language specific idioms, and puns/wordplay that just don't translate. I watch enough foreign sub-titled movies to know how much of a pain in the ass translation can be even when it doesn't need to be done in realtime. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 04, 2013, 11:18:25 PM
A long time ago I translated a German movie's subtitles into English so I could show it to my American friends. What a pain that was. So many things just didn't work in English.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2013, 11:37:53 PM
I had a 3 hour long Indian movie that I loved, but had absolutely awful subtitles, so I had to figure out what the heck they meant from a couple of different subtitle sources (one that was good, but very shortened to be quicker to read, and another source that was a directly literal translation but made no sense at all), and redo the whole thing. And I don't know Indian! That was a huge pain in the ass.

And it was a comedy, with a lot of word play that had no working translation. I could tell what the joke was, but there was just no way to make it work in another language. Apparently their phrase for turning on the TV translates literally as something like "drop the TV", which was a required part of the joke of the scene.

Even as a manual process, translating is difficult, because you're translating more than just words. When people speak a language, they're speaking within the confines of a specific cultural context, which includes assumed knowledge and familiarity that can't be translated automatically on the fly as the universal translator would imply.

It's exactly the point in the TNG episode Darmok. Even completely understanding the words, the meaning of the words was lost due to necessary assumed knowledge and cultural understanding.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 05, 2013, 02:58:50 AM
TL;DR : it's just a quick fix for allowing all aliens to speak english :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 05, 2013, 07:15:51 AM
I am actually speaking Rigelian.  By an astonishing coincidence, both of our languages are exactly the same.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 05, 2013, 07:29:39 AM
I recognise that ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 05, 2013, 07:32:19 AM
I recognise that ?

The Simpsons, Treehouse of Horror, when Kang and Kudos abduct the Simpsons.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on August 05, 2013, 08:09:47 AM

Even as a manual process, translating is difficult, because you're translating more than just words. When people speak a language, they're speaking within the confines of a specific cultural context, which includes assumed knowledge and familiarity that can't be translated automatically on the fly as the universal translator would imply.

It's exactly the point in the TNG episode Darmok. Even completely understanding the words, the meaning of the words was lost due to necessary assumed knowledge and cultural understanding.

As frustrating as it is, that's one of the things I love about languages in general.   It is fascinating.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on August 05, 2013, 12:13:54 PM
Yeah, it's best not to think about the specifics of the UT. It really just makes no sense whatsoever.

BTW, the show to best work around this issue was Farscape. Just simple and effective.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 05, 2013, 03:36:50 PM
In Enterprise there was always a delay, where Hoshi would say that the UT hadn't had time to figure stuff out yet. That seems pretty reasonable. I suspect there's a data set that you could assemble which would be sufficient for a computer to learn English, for example. Certainly a computer 200 years from now. Probably fit on a floppy disk. A dictionary and 15-20 sentences demonstrating some syntax. "The boy is playing with the red ball." That sort of stuff. You transmit that, they transmit theirs, and after a minute or two the UTs have it all figured out. This seems pretty reasonable. Sometimes it make take longer. ST just treated the whole thing like magic. The aforementioned DS9 episode demonstrated that pretty damned well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The United Threaderation of Planets
Post by: Kotowboy on August 05, 2013, 05:49:08 PM
Petition to change the thread title to

" Star Trek: The United Threaderation of Planets "

:lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 05, 2013, 06:35:18 PM
"Star Trek, and Thread. On DTF."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 05, 2013, 11:51:52 PM
Petition to change the thread title to

" Star Trek: The United Threaderation of Planets "

:lol

Nice.

In Enterprise there was always a delay, where Hoshi would say that the UT hadn't had time to figure stuff out yet. That seems pretty reasonable. I suspect there's a data set that you could assemble which would be sufficient for a computer to learn English, for example. Certainly a computer 200 years from now. Probably fit on a floppy disk. A dictionary and 15-20 sentences demonstrating some syntax. "The boy is playing with the red ball." That sort of stuff. You transmit that, they transmit theirs, and after a minute or two the UTs have it all figured out. This seems pretty reasonable. Sometimes it make take longer. ST just treated the whole thing like magic. The aforementioned DS9 episode demonstrated that pretty damned well.

Enterprise did it well, because it only came through as text, and was completely feasible, and required more manual imput, which made Hoshi's job on the ship more useful (although they still wasted her).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nick on August 06, 2013, 06:22:40 AM
Petition to change the thread title to

" Star Trek: The United Threaderation of Planets "

:lol

Won't change this one, but remind me in 2500 replies or so.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 06, 2013, 06:32:58 AM
If there was one character on TNG that didn't need to be there - it was Troi.

She did next to nothing except sense stuff or get mind raped :lol

She almost never went on away missions and they barely ever showed her counselling anyone.

Even in the films she was just sort of there in the background.

Nothing against Marina in any way but it's like they didn't really know what to do with her week after week.

If Troi was in her quarters - and she looked in the mirror - shit was about to happen.  :rollin

She barely even had any character arc either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on August 06, 2013, 06:50:13 AM
She was very pretty...   :coolio
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 06, 2013, 08:54:45 AM
She made a fine cake
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 06, 2013, 10:48:15 AM
Good Tea.






... Nice House.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 06, 2013, 09:55:59 PM
Trying to watch the episode where Data hooks up with that ensign. Ugh, painful.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 07, 2013, 04:57:56 AM
I hate any episode of anything where it's a "romance" story.

The one where Riker falls for that androgynous alien is pretty poor too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 07, 2013, 05:06:01 AM
I hate any episode of anything where it's a "romance" story.

The one where Riker falls for that androgynous alien is pretty poor too.

That episode was easily one of my least favourite TNG episodes. Give me a CG space whale or spacial anomaly any day.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 07, 2013, 05:17:49 AM
" But I love you ! "

:lol it's a genderless alien - two reasons right there that this can never happen.

It was like it was trying to cram all of Star Trek's values into a single episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 07, 2013, 07:29:06 AM
I found that episode kinda weird and awkward, but interesting.  As I saw it, the idea was to completely separate love from gender.  Sure, some of it was metaphor for homosexual rights, but if you can't take it to the next step in science fiction, where else can you take it?  So the next step is exploring how people totally without gender would experience love.

In our culture, emotional love is always tied up with physical love.  I think one of the main points of that episode was that it doesn't have to be.  Why should it be that asexual people cannot experience monogamous, emotional love?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 07, 2013, 11:59:39 AM
I've also noticed that "impulse speed" is also " whatever the script requires. "

It's never stated explicitly how fast impulse is...It's either slow when you need it to be slow or fast but not warp 1. :P


Full impulse is either half of warp 1 or when in starbase it's manouvering speed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 07, 2013, 12:58:00 PM
It's not consistent at all.  There's a TNG episode where Picard says "Ahead, full impulse" and Geordi (who's at the helm) replies "Aye, ahead warp 6".  There's other times when it's implied, if not stated outright, that "warp" is hyperlight and "impulse" is sublight.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 07, 2013, 01:11:34 PM
Yes exactly. I looked it up online and it's inconsistent across all Trek.

It can either mean Half of Warp 1 or very very slow depending on the situation.



Other times they even use "k/ph" . I assume that must mean infinitesimally slow for The Enterprise.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 07, 2013, 01:15:22 PM
Here's a discussion :

Which "Trek" series would you most like to be in for real ?

I choose TNG as the Enterprise D was the most advanced ship at the time and outside of any skirmishes and battles etc - was a luxurious flying hotel.

The quarters are massive compared to my apartment and you can replicate any food you want. You'd have it so easy.

Voyager looks small and claustrophobic by comparison.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on August 07, 2013, 01:23:34 PM
DS9 because there are Ferengi to mop up the holosuites when you're done.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 07, 2013, 01:25:48 PM
Enterprise. NX 01

I love how primitive they are compared to the other series. True explorers. Like Luis and Clarke.


DS9 because there are Ferengi to mop up the holosuites when you're done.


:lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 07, 2013, 02:42:11 PM
I vote for TNG as well.  The Holodeck version of "Rock Band" would consist of actually jamming with famous musicians from any time in history, on actual instruments.  When that gets boring, there's the "Backstage at the Miss Universe Pageant, Safety Protocols Off" program for some amusement.  The only time I'd leave the Holodeck would be to eat and sleep.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 07, 2013, 03:16:32 PM
:lol its true that if people only used the holodeck for carnal reasons - there would just be "fluids" everywhere....

Even though the holodeck cleans itself.

Imagine programming an orgy or something and then you say " End Program " and you're just left with the physical remnants :P

" Err...holodeck clean....deep...deep clean....maximum setting."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 07, 2013, 04:14:55 PM
DS9, in a heartbeat. TNG is too squeaky clean, I would develop fake Tourette's just so I could yell "Fuck! Shit!" down the hallways.
DS9 had the right amount of seediness to be interesting, but still tons of future amenities.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Laich21DT on August 07, 2013, 04:50:20 PM
If there was one character on TNG that didn't need to be there - it was Troi.

She did next to nothing except sense stuff or get mind raped :lol

She almost never went on away missions and they barely ever showed her counselling anyone.

Even in the films she was just sort of there in the background.

Nothing against Marina in any way but it's like they didn't really know what to do with her week after week.

If Troi was in her quarters - and she looked in the mirror - shit was about to happen.  :rollin

She barely even had any character arc either.

I totally agree. I also thought it was really annoying that later in the series, she was promoted to Commander, and thus outranked both Data and LaForge. Most of the scenes where her and Riker are being romantic were pretty bad, IMO. I also never really found her all that attractive, despite the fact she was intended to be the series' "eye candy". I mean, she's pretty and all, but she just doesn't do anything for me.

Her mother was even more obnoxious, though. One of the worst episodes I can recall is "Menage a Troi". Riker and Troi go down onto Betazed for a romantic getaway, Lwaxana is there for some reason, and then they get kidnapped by the Ferengi. Ugh.

In another episode, towards Picard has to basically beg Lwaxana for her help and tell her how much he misses her and all that jazz. Gotta admit that that part is pretty funny.

It's kind of odd, although I love The Next Generation, but it has a lot of characters I don't care for too much. The Troi's, Chief O'Brien and his useless wife, Alexander (ugh), and K'Ehleyr. I suppose the ones that I really like (Picard, Data, LaForge) balance things out.

Also, it might be blasphemy to say, but I've never been a big fan of Riker or Worf. Riker acts like a dick for seemingly no reason sometimes, and Worf is just a little too one dimensional. Code and honor, yeah, we get it. However, I do enjoy most episodes where Worf interacts with other Klingon's (not K'Ehleyr or Alexander). Redemption ftw.

Something I've noticed about Riker that's kind of funny, he has a tendency to walk with his head leading the way, so when he's turning a corner, his head is the first thing that comes around.  :lol

Btw, I just read on Wiki that Roddenberry originally planned to give Troi four breasts (:omg:), but Majel told him it was a bad idea. Ya think?  :lol

Oh, and I'd prefer to live on DS9.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 07, 2013, 04:58:37 PM
I love Riker. Or moreover - I love Frakes' acting.

I also love Burton's acting - he just seems so natural - like LaForge is someone you could be friends with.

Brent is probably 4th. McFadden is totally believable as a doctor and Worf usually provides most of the comedy.

I don't hate Wheaton as much as some people but he's a bit extraneous at times.




- - - - - - -


One thing that TNG does really well is make you *HATE* alien races. :lol

Like - The Ferengi will offer something only so they can get what they want in return and when picard sees through the charade - they got offended and say how dare you !!! :lol

Or any time someone is in Federation space unlawfully and they hail the Enterprise first and demand to know what they want.

:P So irritating - but so good. They know how to write really annoying aliens :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Laich21DT on August 07, 2013, 05:17:43 PM
One thing that TNG does really well is make you *HATE* alien races. :lol

Like - The Ferengi will offer something only so they can get what they want in return and when picard sees through the charade - they got offended and say how dare you !!! :lol

Or any time someone is in Federation space unlawfully and they hail the Enterprise first and demand to know what they want.

:P So irritating - but so good. They know how to write really annoying aliens :lol

That's especially so with the Ferengi, Klingons, Romulans. I always found the Cardassians to be a reasonable race, despite the past hostility between the Federations and the Cardassians. The Klingons loved to hassle the Federation folks for being what they saw as soft, but they actually were helpful at times. The Ferengi were annoying for the reasons that you mentioned, and the Romulans came across as purely evil.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 07, 2013, 09:33:53 PM
Brent is probably 4th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dePPJxRXhT8

Watch Spiner's career die in that video clip.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on August 07, 2013, 11:38:02 PM
Brent is probably 4th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dePPJxRXhT8

Watch Spiner's career die in that video clip.

WTF did I just watch?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 12:12:09 AM
DS9, in a heartbeat. TNG is too squeaky clean, I would develop fake Tourette's just so I could yell "Fuck! Shit!" down the hallways.
DS9 had the right amount of seediness to be interesting, but still tons of future amenities.

:lol But you have to pay for the holosuites. I'd go with TNG. They can be as squeaky clean as they want, as long as what happens in the holodeck stays in the holodeck.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on August 08, 2013, 06:04:22 AM
Brent is probably 4th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dePPJxRXhT8

Watch Spiner's career die in that video clip.

I laughed harder than I should've at that.

As for where I'd like to be, I'd say DS9 for all the same reasons Rumby mentioned.  As for deep cleaning, I'm sure the holodeck can just use the transporter technology to get everything inside the room, and just dump it into space.  Of course, that would get the galactic environmentalists after the Federation.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 06:11:28 AM
Brent is probably 4th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dePPJxRXhT8

Watch Spiner's career die in that video clip.

I laughed harder than I should've at that.

As for where I'd like to be, I'd say DS9 for all the same reasons Rumby mentioned.  As for deep cleaning, I'm sure the holodeck can just use the transporter technology to get everything inside the room, and just dump it into space.  Of course, that would get the galactic environmentalists after the Federation.

Can you imagine some alien race comes to a large nebula they've never seen before, and it just turns out it's the Federation's dumping ground for space-smile?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaperKK on August 08, 2013, 06:13:10 AM
I have to go with Rumby and and jingle on living in Deep Space 9. It'd be pretty neat, exploring a whole space station.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on August 08, 2013, 06:15:29 AM

As for where I'd like to be, I'd say DS9 for all the same reasons Rumby mentioned.  As for deep cleaning, I'm sure the holodeck can just use the transporter technology to get everything inside the room, and just dump it into space.  Of course, that would get the galactic environmentalists after the Federation.

Can you imagine some alien race comes to a large nebula they've never seen before, and it just turns out it's the Federation's dumping ground for space-smile?

So tempted to sig this.  Yup... had to do it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 06:22:08 AM
:lol I should be proud that the crowning achievement of my day is getting the term "space-smile" into someone's sig.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 06:25:36 AM
I'm surprised Voyager never did an episode where someone has a holo-baby.

It couldn't be any more preposterous than some of their other stories.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 06:27:54 AM
I'm surprised Voyager never did an episode where someone has a holo-baby.

It couldn't be any more preposterous than some of their other stories.

Every one of the series had some equally preposterous stories. The closest I can think of is actually a pretty good episode where The Doc has a holo-family.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 06:33:28 AM
:lolpalm:

Oh, Voyager. . .

Did Rick Berman just go " fuck it " and just OK every script that came along ?!


Star Trek really took a nosedive in quality after DS9.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 06:35:38 AM
Have you even seen the episode? It's actually quite good (and as some fun trivia, has the voice actor for the mother from American Dad playing the Doctor's wife).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 06:40:16 AM
I don't think so - just in general - Star Trek really ditched the quality control after DS9.

All these people saying JJ "killed" Star Trek - when he bought to an even bigger audience than before.

It was Rick Berman & co that nearly killed it off for good.

I don't want to start another " it's just another summer blockbuster" argument but Into Darkness made more in it's opening weekend than Nemesis

made in it's entire run.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 06:46:43 AM
Making money =/= quality. All of the Transformers movies made double the money Into Darkness made, so that's a worthless argument (since I know that Transformers is top of your list of the million things you love to criticize). They're all just big dumb action blockbusters.

JJ didn't kill Star Trek, he just made it popular by making it not really Star Trek. I'll take Voyager over JJ's empty Big Mac of a movie franchise any day. Enterprise was the series that wore out the franchise and killed it off, and they didn't even really want to make that, the networks wanted that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 07:43:03 AM
I don't want to start another " it's just another summer blockbuster" argument...
^ Mainly because i've been a Trekker for almost 30 years and I loved both of them and i'm not alone in that. i know plenty of hard core Trekkers who also thought JJ's films were fantastic and that 2009 is as good as if not better than TWOK. I don't think it's better but it's up there...

it's what happens to Star Trek *after* JJ, Kurtzman And Orci that worries me.

Whether Paramount will just hand it to anybody or will they leave it for a long time until the right person comes along...

I don't want them to hand it to just anyone who really *will* just turn it into a

Zippy camera / slow motion walking away from explosions / sunglass indoors wearing / firing two phasers at once / close up shaky cam...

That is what I DO NOT want. :puke:


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 07:48:04 AM
Anyway - it's obvious that we're never gonna reach an agreement on this :lol

Lets just end it. I love the last two films and really don't put them in the "just another boom bang summer blockbuster" category.

" The line must be drawn here. This Far. No Further . "



[ I love when Captain Picard gets passionate and starts shouting. Patrick's such a good actor . . ]
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 07:53:28 AM
I'm hoping that after the current movies, they go back to a television series, that has nothing to do with the current movie crew.
Trek never worked anywhere near as well in movies as in shows, so I at least rank Trek 2009 pretty highly too despite my constant complaints about it (I wouldn't rank Into Darkness as highly, although it's still easily better than TMP, TFF and Nemesis for me).

I read that JJ wanted to create a new series and was shot down, and I'm glad. JJ's approach works well enough for movies, and if it helps revive the franchise on television, then it's all good. But I'm not a fan of JJ's idea of science fiction, and I hope he becomes more permanently involved with Star Wars, because I think he's perfect for that (and I don't mean that in any backhanded way either. I think his approach to Trek will make for great Star Wars movies).

I hope it doesn't take too long for them to bring Trek back to TV, because there's so little good scifi around these days (and I don't like Hollywood scifi at all). I also hope they have enough faith in it to create a new series, and not just reboot TNG or continue a rebooted TOS with a cheap cast or something like that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 08:09:17 AM
Karl Urban has gone on record that he wants the next film to be "original" and to be an exploration movie with no villain.

I hope Orci & Kurtzman take this into account too. They were even considering that idea for the 2nd movie but Damon Lindelof apparently insisted on

bringing Khan into it [ Damon is reportedly not working on Trek 3 so maybe now they can finally do it ]*

Karl is by far the biggest Trekkie in the new cast so he knows his stuff.

I'm not sure where I rank Into Darkness at present. But 2009 is *easily* in my top 3.

But like you said - it's better than Motion Picture, Final Frontier & Nemesis by a mile.



* Bob Orci said that he resisted bringing Khan into the new movie and wanted him to just be "John Harrison". It would have made a much more satisfying movie. Just have him as a geneically enhanced super baddie - no need to make him Khan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 08:15:40 AM
I just find it silly that they rebooted the franchise, giving themselves a 100% clean slate, and then they go and borrow plots and scenes straight from old Trek. The movie was not at all a remake of Space Seed of TWOK, but it still wasn't particularly fresh or original either.

The last two movies were successful enough that they should be able to try something a bit less wall to wall action and still get people to watch it, and do something without the typical villian. I remember reading about that too, where they said it wouldn't be a typical bad guy. One of my favourite Trek movies is The Voyage Home, and the "villian" of the movie is a giant space cylinder trying to find a whale! :lol TMP didn't have a traditional villian either, although bringing that up would not help my point....... :P

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 08:19:52 AM
That's why TMP and TVH stand out.

I would LOVE for a  JJ movie like TMP. A massive space epic into the unknown with messed up physics etc etc..

And they have to figure out how to escape from this entity / anomaly. . .

They can't seriously do the revenge film AGAIN

12. Khan
11.Nero
10.Shinzon
9.Ru'afo
8. Picard Vs Borg [ to some extent ]


They really NEED to do the space exploration movie - and the fact that they mentioned deep space exploration TWICE in "Into Darkness" gives me some hope of that.

If they have to do another action film - at least make it an all out war between Qu'onos and Earth. A really dark war film with space battles :) mmmm
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 08:24:41 AM
Mark your calendar Kotowboy, because I pretty much agree with that entire post.

I'd like to see a more classic and paced out Trek movie along the lines of TMP, but of course done well. I don't hate TMP, but it was one heck of a dull and boring movie imo, and I'd rank it as one of the worst. But the underlying idea is sound. And the empty revenge story is a worn out cliche at this point. Nemesis, 2009, Into Darkness, it's just stale. I don't even mind if they take a TOS episode and turn it into a movie, but choose one of the trippy ones with some funky space amoeba or something.

They ended the movie by starting the 5 year mission, so some generic vendetta against the captain or the Federation should theoretically be ruled out, I hope. I want to see the ship and the crew alone in the unexplored vastness of space, dealing with the unknown.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Bolsters on August 08, 2013, 08:24:57 AM
I didn't actually know Abrams wanted to do a series and was shot down. I don't actually care enough about this film series to follow them that closely (I don't dislike them really, but they're mindless action films. Not much to write home about). I actually would have preferred a series though, because I think he would have taken a vastly different approach and put a lot more effort into plot, characterisation and emotional depth for a series - the two things that the films desperately need more of IMO. And again IMO, three things that were really good about the last Abrams television series, Fringe.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 09:00:01 AM
I just think there's a lot more going on thematically and plot wise in the last two films that your usual gung-ho action film.

I really like how they didn't end (2009) with the crew exactly how they were at the start of TOS. They ended the sequel that way.

I thought it was quite neat that 2009 didn't end up with Spock & Kirk being best buds and Kirk the legendary captain we all know.

Most origin stories end with that "aha" moment of everything you know coming together.

We didn't get that until the very end of the 2nd movie., which I thought was cool. :)



* I know 1701 was modded at the end of Into Darkness - but I really want a new Enterprise at some point. Maybe somthing that's *between*

Constitution I & II designs as a nod to both ships.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: masterthes on August 08, 2013, 09:02:54 AM
I'm suprised Q was never in any of the TNG movies. I imagine that could've been interesting
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 09:04:48 AM
I'm suprised Q was never in any of the TNG movies. I imagine that could've been interesting
It could have been cool - but with Q - you can pretty much do anything but always have a deus ex machina to get you out of it - which would be a danger

of  any Q story.

What they could have done is have Q take them to the Theta quadrant or something and then lose his powers because of something there Q didn't know about - and then the rest of the film could be about trying to get back without Q's help and he has to learn to function as a member of the crew .


Why aren't I writing a Star Trek movie ? :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 09:09:19 AM
And both new movies were full of plot holes, showed a poor understanding of how the laws of physics and space work, and discarded character moments for big action scenes, many of which were there for the sake of an ADD Hollywood audience.

I'll grant you, they were marginally more involved than the average action movie, but that's really not saying a lot when you look at the standard of Hollywood these days. I've rewatched Trek '09 several times, and I'll rewatch Into Darkness once I eventually buy it, but compared to the best Trek has offered in the past, it's hollow entertainment to me.
They're not bad movies, but they could also have been so much more given what they had to work with.

Why aren't I writing a Star Trek movie ? :lol

I'm not even touching that one. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 09:12:15 AM
*deep breath* :lol

I grant you that they had a lot more bluster than Star Trek had in the past but if they intended to bring Star Trek up to date and reach a new audience

then they achieved that with flying colours.

As I said before - as long as they don't turn into sunglasses wearing heroes in capes firing two phasers in slow motion and walking away from explosions

and saying a cheesy quip after every action sequence then it's all good :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Bolsters on August 08, 2013, 09:21:45 AM
I just think there's a lot more going on thematically and plot wise in the last two films that your usual gung-ho action film.
Well, maybe I was a bit harsh. But I do think there was too much emphasis on the big action sequences. They could have done with a bit less reliance on that and more of what I mentioned, I thought.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 08, 2013, 06:26:27 PM
Another thing I noticed is that when they're in the observation lounge - every character has to have a line - even if it's to state the bloody obvious.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ZirconBlue on August 09, 2013, 08:23:48 AM


I laughed harder than I should've at that.

As for where I'd like to be, I'd say DS9 for all the same reasons Rumby mentioned.  As for deep cleaning, I'm sure the holodeck can just use the transporter technology to get everything inside the room, and just dump it into space.  Of course, that would get the galactic environmentalists after the Federation.

Can you imagine some alien race comes to a large nebula they've never seen before, and it just turns out it's the Federation's dumping ground for space-smile?


I don't think it gets beamed into space.  More likely it gets sent back to the replicators.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 09, 2013, 08:25:33 AM


I laughed harder than I should've at that.

As for where I'd like to be, I'd say DS9 for all the same reasons Rumby mentioned.  As for deep cleaning, I'm sure the holodeck can just use the transporter technology to get everything inside the room, and just dump it into space.  Of course, that would get the galactic environmentalists after the Federation.

Can you imagine some alien race comes to a large nebula they've never seen before, and it just turns out it's the Federation's dumping ground for space-smile?


I don't think it gets beamed into space.  More likely it gets sent back to the replicators.

It's reassuring to know that recycling in the future consists of pumping every bodily fluid and solid back into making food.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 09, 2013, 08:39:06 AM
It gets pumped into making people so why not food ? :neverusethis:

It probably just gets obliterated. Like - broken down into neurons or whatever. Like a flash clean or something.



I want to know what sonic shower is. It doesn't look like they use water - that sounds crap to me. Not much nicer things in life than a good hot shower.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 09, 2013, 08:41:20 AM
It gets pumped into making people so why not food ? :neverusethis:

I have so many responses to that, but I'm just going to sit content that you made a joke involving semen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 09, 2013, 08:41:49 AM
I have so many responses to that, but I'm just going to sit content that you made a joke involving semen.

It's as close as you'll get :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 09, 2013, 08:44:06 AM
I always took a sonic shower as just trying to make it sound more science fictiony. I don't recall seeing any attempted explanation as to how it works. Much like how "gigaquads" was their vague measurement of computer data storage so they didn't get laughed at in 20 years for choosing something small.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 09, 2013, 08:45:14 AM
I always took a sonic shower as just trying to make it sound more science fictiony. I don't recall seeing any attempted explanation as to how it works. Much like how "gigaquads" was their vague measurement of computer data storage so they didn't get laughed at in 20 years for choosing something small.

:lol I love thinking back to my first ever computer - which was an Acorn Electron and I think it has a 52kb memory or something riduculously small by today's standards.


Edit : 32kb ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Electron
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 09, 2013, 08:51:32 AM
I always took a sonic shower as just trying to make it sound more science fictiony. I don't recall seeing any attempted explanation as to how it works. Much like how "gigaquads" was their vague measurement of computer data storage so they didn't get laughed at in 20 years for choosing something small.

:lol I love thinking back to my first ever computer - which was an Acorn Electron and I think it has a 52kb memory or something riduculously small by today's standards.


Edit : 32kb ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Electron

In the movie Short Circuit 2, the robot announces how it has 500 megabytes of memory. Might impressive for 1988, but for 2013, not so much. :lol
Maybe Star Trek was smart enough to realize that Moore's Law would make fools out of them, so they just went with a fictional measurement system. I figure that a "quad" is a new type of computer storage method altogether in the future, maybe not even base 2, and not using standard bytes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 09, 2013, 08:55:57 AM
It's the same as Sci-fi..

If you're gonna make a film in the future - either don't put a date on it OR make it so far in the future that it won't matter.

It's when films put " in 2019 AD " and it's all flying cars etc. Just don't do it. 

It's 2015 in 18 months and we're still no closer to flying cars or hoverboards.


Sci fi films should just say " In the distant future.. . "




* Maybe by the 24th century in TNG land - they have virtual storage too. Not like banks of hard drives.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 09, 2013, 09:00:13 AM
It's the same as Sci-fi..

If you're gonna make a film in the future - either don't put a date on it OR make it so far in the future that it won't matter.

It's when films put " in 2019 AD " and it's all flying cars etc. Just don't do it. 

It's 2015 in 18 months and we're still no closer to flying cars or hoverboards.


Sci fi films should just say " In the distant future.. . "

I actually prefer it when there is a year, because I think it gives some reality to the situation, like they've made an attempt to extrapolate from the current day to the future, and given it more thought. Obviously, the other side of it is that extrapolating the future is very difficult to do, so it's always going to be incorrect in ways they couldn't predict.

In the case of BTTF2, they actually intentionally took it a bit further into the future (as they apparently also took 1955 a little further back to exaggerate the culture clash), and had some fun with it, rather than trying to accurately predict the future. A lot of it was tongue in cheek commentary on the present day, as much as it was a future setting.

That's my favourite movie scene and set of all time, btw. :tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 09, 2013, 09:06:09 AM
I do like how future Hill Valley is basically the same as 1985 - just a bit shitter and as ever - technology just doesn't work a lot of the time.


Bob Zemeckis did say he didnt want the typical future of gleaming white buildings everywhere.

Pretty sure I saw an article on BTTF2 where they pointed out some things in 2015 that we have now that we didn't when they made the film.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 09, 2013, 09:08:18 AM
Do we have a BTTF thread? I'd really like to continue this line of thought, but I don't want to get too far off topic here. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 09, 2013, 09:28:47 AM
We do now. https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=38486.0
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 09, 2013, 07:06:23 PM
Got TWOK on right now. It's amazing, the acting difference between "This is Ceti Alpha Five!!' And "Khaaan!!".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 10, 2013, 07:34:54 AM
I always thought Khaaaaaaan! was Kirk pretending so that Khan thought he had won - when in reality - The Enterprise was waiting to beam them all up.


Slightly new Discussion !

Didn't wanna start a new thread....

Funniest lines in Star Trek.

I laughed my arse off when Riker and Picard were teasing Wesley about Beverly going away for a year . .

" Who's going to tuck you into bed now , Wesley ? "

Worf : " *sigh* I believe I will sir. "

 :lol :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 10, 2013, 07:40:00 AM
I always thought Khaaaaaaan! was Kirk pretending so that Khan thought he had won - when in reality - The Enterprise was waiting to beam them all up.

We find that out later.  At the time, it's hard to say whether it's Kirk pretending to be all mad, or William Shatner overacting as usual.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 10, 2013, 12:13:39 PM
JJ didn't kill Star Trek, he just made it popular by making it not really Star Trek. I'll take Voyager over JJ's empty Big Mac of a movie franchise any day. Enterprise was the series that wore out the franchise and killed it off, and they didn't even really want to make that, the networks wanted that.
I certainly agree about Voyager topping the Abram's fair. I don't think Enterprise killed the franchise as much as just plain old saturation. Enterprise certainly could have been much, much better, but a pretty good hiatus between Voyager, which was already not sitting well with the diehards, would have certainly helped their cause. For that matter, I think Voyager's biggest issue might have been being the follow up to the immensely popular DS9. It's not a bad show at all. People just got hooked on the greatly inferior TNG and the greatly superior DS9. Voyager just slipped in there and didn't click.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 10, 2013, 12:57:41 PM
TNG inferior to Voyager. . . O_o



 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 10, 2013, 12:58:27 PM
I'd suck on that pipe ^
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Laich21DT on August 10, 2013, 01:00:46 PM
People just got hooked on the greatly inferior TNG
Wait, what?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 10, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
Voyager has weak plots - terrible wooden acting and really unimaginative characters and situations considering they were in the Delta Quadrant.

Plus it has some of the worst episodes of Trek EVER
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 10, 2013, 01:19:08 PM
Your acting is terribly wooden  


 :yeahright
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on August 10, 2013, 01:37:53 PM
JJ didn't kill Star Trek, he just made it popular by making it not really Star Trek. I'll take Voyager over JJ's empty Big Mac of a movie franchise any day. Enterprise was the series that wore out the franchise and killed it off, and they didn't even really want to make that, the networks wanted that.
I certainly agree about Voyager topping the Abram's fair. I don't think Enterprise killed the franchise as much as just plain old saturation. Enterprise certainly could have been much, much better, but a pretty good hiatus between Voyager, which was already not sitting well with the diehards, would have certainly helped their cause. For that matter, I think Voyager's biggest issue might have been being the follow up to the immensely popular DS9. It's not a bad show at all. People just got hooked on the greatly inferior TNG and the greatly superior DS9. Voyager just slipped in there and didn't click.
Greatly inferior? Yeah okay.

I'll play devil's advocate here and just say that TNG and Voyager are more like brother and sister with their highly variable quality issues and similarly episodic content. When you really get down to it, there aren't that many differences between the shows aside from the fact that, despite opening with one season of irredeemable shit, TNG has some episodes that are true classics, the kind that stand up to the test of time and are still good today. Does Voyager? I like some Voyager but I can't think of any episodes that could qualify as 'classics.'

TNG does get kind of a free pass for successfully bringing Trek back to television, but at its best, it was much better than the best of Voyager.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 10, 2013, 02:37:16 PM
Pretty sure i've watched all the best ( i.e. non-Troi centric ) episodes of TNG.

Started DS9 now :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 10, 2013, 04:04:56 PM
Voyager really struggled to find enemies anyone cared  about. In the end they resorted to pull in the only pre-Voyager enemy they could get away with, the Borg. It saved the series for sure, but it's a bit sad the series couldn't stand on its own.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 10, 2013, 04:57:48 PM
It is sad.  I thought the whole idea was that they'd be encountering new stuff, stuff completely unlike anything we'd ever seen before, since they were on the other side of the galaxy.  Exploring the unknown again.

We got a few semi-interesting things, a lot of dumb things, and The Borg: The Next Generation.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on August 10, 2013, 05:18:54 PM
The Hirogen were kinda the standouts, I thought, with the organ-stealer aliens running in second (can't recall their name atm). Neat concept, too bad they weren't utilized enough.

The Kazon were actually not that bad, more mediocre really. Not developed enough or menacing enough to make it as a primary antagonist, but I think with a bit more work and in smaller doses they could've been effective. They certainly weren't 'Ferengi with energy whips' bad like some make them out to be. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 10, 2013, 05:26:22 PM
I guess I'm still too old-fashioned about some things.  I just don't understand why every show has to have a recurring bad guy and/or a continuing story arc.  There seem to no longer be any truly episodic television shows, where each episode tells a self-contained story, and it's good because we already know the characters and thus they don't have spend a lot of time dealing with that.  Yes, there are a couple of standalone episodes here and there, then it's time to return to the "main" bad guy, or have another episode which advances, sometimes only slightly, the ongoing story arc.

Is this because television has evolved and become more sophisticated?  Or simply because some people like to think so?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 10, 2013, 07:10:09 PM
I'll play devil's advocate here and just say that TNG and Voyager are more like brother and sister with their highly variable quality issues and similarly episodic content. When you really get down to it, there aren't that many differences between the shows aside from the fact that, despite opening with one season of irredeemable shit, TNG has some episodes that are true classics, the kind that stand up to the test of time and are still good today. Does Voyager? I like some Voyager but I can't think of any episodes that could qualify as 'classics.'

TNG does get kind of a free pass for successfully bringing Trek back to television, but at its best, it was much better than the best of Voyager.
The best of TNG was better than the best of Voyager. On average, Voyager was the better show. As I've stated numerous times before, the distinction is the horribly uninteresting and inhuman Roddenberry idealizations of people. Once he croaked and we got real characters, the shows improved, even if the stories weren't always as good.


edit: damn, and after defending Voyager, I just watched one stinker of an episode. Projections, where the Dr. can't tell what's real and what's holographic. It started out pretty good with a crisis situation, and tanked into a an endless string of mindfucks featuring one of TNG's worst creations, Barkley. Yeesh.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on August 10, 2013, 09:59:06 PM
I guess I'm still too old-fashioned about some things.  I just don't understand why every show has to have a recurring bad guy and/or a continuing story arc.  There seem to no longer be any truly episodic television shows, where each episode tells a self-contained story, and it's good because we already know the characters and thus they don't have spend a lot of time dealing with that.  Yes, there are a couple of standalone episodes here and there, then it's time to return to the "main" bad guy, or have another episode which advances, sometimes only slightly, the ongoing story arc.

Is this because television has evolved and become more sophisticated?  Or simply because some people like to think so?
Episodic television still exists, the difference is it doesn't dominate like it used to.  Which is good, IMO.  It's nice to have a bit of variety now and again. :)

I'll play devil's advocate here and just say that TNG and Voyager are more like brother and sister with their highly variable quality issues and similarly episodic content. When you really get down to it, there aren't that many differences between the shows aside from the fact that, despite opening with one season of irredeemable shit, TNG has some episodes that are true classics, the kind that stand up to the test of time and are still good today. Does Voyager? I like some Voyager but I can't think of any episodes that could qualify as 'classics.'

TNG does get kind of a free pass for successfully bringing Trek back to television, but at its best, it was much better than the best of Voyager.
The best of TNG was better than the best of Voyager. On average, Voyager was the better show. As I've stated numerous times before, the distinction is the horribly uninteresting and inhuman Roddenberry idealizations of people. Once he croaked and we got real characters, the shows improved, even if the stories weren't always as good.
Except Voyager didn't really have interesting characters to balance that out except for maybe Tuvok, the Doctor, Seven and (depending upon the day of the week) Janeway. Torres was alright too, I guess, but Chakotay, Kim and Paris were incredibly boring and wasted potential. When you think about it, that's about the same amount of boring to not boring that TNG had.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 10, 2013, 10:43:19 PM
I never liked Torres. I also never bought for a moment that Paris was in love with her, if only for the fact that her half being Klingon made her be PMS in overdrive. I don't know, where they could have portrayed a woman successfully merging her strong and her sensitive side, all one ever got was a bitchy Torres. One of the best episodes was actually the one where she was split in half. Suddenly one had two coherent characters.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 11, 2013, 12:32:30 AM
Voyager had plenty of good bad guys of the week, and recurring bad guys didn't make a lot of sense anyway, aside from maybe the Borg, being as dominant as they were.

The Kazon were the most awful bad guys in Trek history, but they ditched them really quickly by the start of the 3rd season, and incidentally, the show instantly improved dramatically. Then it improved further once they got 7 of 9 and switched to full CG spaceships and battles. I think the show had a lot of the best action scenes in all of Trek because they were able to use CG.

Overall I think their one off aliens were as good as any of the other Trek series, as they had to rely more on them due to not being able to return to the familiar ones all too often. And when they did, they ended up being horribly contrived, like the random Klingon tribe, or the Ferengis who happened to get stranded along their path, or anything involving Troi and Barclay. I would have preferred they have no contact with Earth at all until the finale, then see the shock as they arrive, instead of the deflated ending we got.



Kind of a random tangent, but there was a funny line in the most recent episode of NTSF:SD:SUV. One of the main characters is played by Kate Mulgrew, aka. Captain Janeway. They were investigating an alien, and she says "Aliens don't exist. They were made up by Gene Roddenberry so indoor kids could have something to live for." :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 11, 2013, 05:20:30 AM
I saw this cat on Instagram and it's doing the Commander Riker eye squint. :P


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRYi7KhCYAAj7ND.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 11, 2013, 07:53:06 AM
Except Voyager didn't really have interesting characters to balance that out except for maybe Tuvok, the Doctor, Seven and (depending upon the day of the week) Janeway. Torres was alright too, I guess, but Chakotay, Kim and Paris were incredibly boring and wasted potential. When you think about it, that's about the same amount of boring to not boring that TNG had.
Which is still more than the interesting characters TNG had. Piccard and Data are the only two really good ones, and the only one that actually has real human personality is Riker. Worf didn't become worth a shit until DS9, really, and he was always a bit of a pussy for a Klingon. Geordi, both Crushers and the TNG O'Brien were all worthless and Troi might be the worst ST character ever. Paris was decent, although I agree with Rumbo about the silly Tores thing (although that's not even in the same universe as Worf/Troi). Kim actually demonstrated some real character development over the series.

Add to that, there's something to be said for an overriding purpose. Voyager always had one distinct goal. TNG was whatever inane situation the writers felt like spewing out. Usually related to Roddenberry's silly notion, arrogantly spouted by Piccard about mankind's need for fulfillment and betterment. Q should have left Enterpirse in the Delta Quadrant with the Borg during the second season to let that big ship of families struggle back home. Might have made them more human and less pious by the end of it (the handful of them that survived, at least).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 11, 2013, 08:35:04 AM
Bart, I'm not saying this to be a dick, really.  It's because I really am curious, and the answer isn't obvious to me.

You always spell the name of Patrick Stewart's character as "Piccard".  You do realize that it's "Picard", right?

Your attention to detail regarding all things Star Trek is impeccable, so it seems to me that it must be intentional.  I just can't figure out why.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 11, 2013, 08:39:42 AM
 :omg:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 11, 2013, 10:06:12 AM
Truth be told, I'm one of the worst spellers on the board. I rely heavily on spellcheck, and until Bosk adds the good captain to the dictionary, I take my best guess. It always makes me pause, actually, but since my way just looks more, correct, I go with it.  :lol


edit: you might also have noticed that I frequently mix up forms of their and there. Obviously I know the difference, but I type faster than I think and if something isn't underlined in red I tend to let it fly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 11, 2013, 10:45:04 AM
Fair enough.  I thought maybe it was intentional to denegrate his character or something, but that didn't seem to be the case.  The standard American English spelling rules (for which there are countless exceptions) say that it should be a double "c" so it's totally understandable.  I guess I've never noticed your other misspellings.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 12, 2013, 07:36:22 AM
So...

At the recent Star Trek convention in Las Vegas - They voted Khan best Star Trek film and Into Darkness worst.

You'd have to be some kind of idiot to think that Into Darkness was the worst Trek film so far with Search For Spock and Final Frontier in the canon.

An idiot. Or a nerd. A stupid fat nerd. basically the sort of person that goes to a Star Trek convention dressed as a Klingon.

 :biggrin:

Search for Spock, Insurrection or Final Frontier are far worse films. Both on an entertainment and technical level.

- Whatever you think about Into Darkness - there's just no way that it's the worst Trek film so far.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 12, 2013, 07:41:43 AM
Do I sense some bitterness? :biggrin:

I like Search For Spock, aside from not being able to take Doc Klingon seriously. Final Frontier was terrible, but I enjoyed it for the camp value far more than I enjoyed Into Darkness as a serious film.

I think I'd get along well with this crowd. :hat I really don't see an issue with considering Into Darkness the worst Trek film. On some levels I very much agree, even though I think there are other worse Trek movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 12, 2013, 07:42:56 AM
I just don't think Into Darkness is the worst Trek film on *any* level.

I simply cannot sit through Insurrection because it just feels like a 2 hour TV episode.

Almost nothing happens until right at the end and it drags quite a lot.



- Something I noticed recently - out of the TOS & TNG movies - both era's have had 2 films directed by their respective First Officers.

Nimoy - Search For Spock & Voyage Home

Frakes - First Contact & Insurrection.


Stewart was wise not to direct a Trek film historically :lol



[ STID isn't even out to buy yet - give it a couple of years and see how well / badly it stands up ]....
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 12, 2013, 07:49:36 AM
Into Darkness has a stupid plot with a ton of holes. It has no concept of the most basic understanding of physics that I'd expect from any self respecting scifi movie/show. They rebooted the most iconic Trek villian of all time and turned him into a personality-less generic enemy as uninspired as Nemesis and Star Trek 2009, and was only Khan by name. They lifted scenes from old Trek.
There are plenty of levels where Into Darkness could be considered one of the worst Trek films. I think it deserves the backlash for the incredibly poor and insulting decision to re-use "Khan" alone.

And my gosh, I don't know what's worse. When you quadruple post, or when you just keep editing the same post and piling more and more in. Just pick a thought, and stick to it! You're like me at age 4 when I was drinking far too much red cordial. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 12, 2013, 08:32:08 AM
You're taking a bunch of Star Trek fans and asking them to pick between a bad Trek film and a Trek themed Summer-blockbuster. Of course they're going to vote the way they did. Ask them to compare it to The Transformers or something and you'll get the vote you wish for, but the reboots have so little in common with the originals that it's not really valid to try and compare them on even terms. As others have said, they're really Trek in names only.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 12, 2013, 01:07:54 PM
Started DS9 now.

Watching it chronologically instead of dipping in and out like with TNG ( seen em all so often ).

On Episode 3 now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 12, 2013, 04:42:14 PM
DS9 has started well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: skydivingninja on August 12, 2013, 09:18:48 PM
Started DS9 now.

Watching it chronologically instead of dipping in and out like with TNG ( seen em all so often ).

On Episode 3 now.

DS9 becomes more and more serialized as it goes on, so you kind of have to watch it in order starting around season 3 or so.

Regarding that movie poll, I'd say Nemesis and the Final Frontier are worse than Into Darkness.  Into Darkness had me incredibly angry in the theater though.  The Red Letter Media reviews of it are pretty spot-on in examining all the places it went wrong.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 12, 2013, 10:51:18 PM
Just watched Elementary Dear Data. Great episode, but damn is Geordi's cold annoying. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 13, 2013, 12:54:01 AM
Started DS9 now.

Watching it chronologically instead of dipping in and out like with TNG ( seen em all so often ).

On Episode 3 now.

As skydivingninja also said, DS9 really has to be watched in order anyway. I actually don't find it that enjoyable to pick and choose individual episodes from DS9 anyway, but there is a huge payoff for watching it all in order. :tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 13, 2013, 05:32:35 AM
SO the Duras sisters were in DS9 episode 3 - obviously before the events of Generations a year later :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 13, 2013, 07:51:09 AM
They sure got around, didn't they?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 13, 2013, 09:35:23 AM
Just picked up The Best of Both Worlds on Blu-Ray.  :metal
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 13, 2013, 11:58:34 AM
I seriously want to see TNG in remastered Blu Ray but I don't own a Blu Ray player and it would cost a shit load to get the entire series on Blu Ray.

:( Maybe one day in the future if I ever start making some actual money.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 13, 2013, 12:52:48 PM
The Duras Sisters were terrible characters. Including them in Generations was perhaps the biggest blunder of a fairly average film.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 13, 2013, 01:00:55 PM
The Duras Sisters were terrible characters. Including them in Generations was perhaps the biggest blunder of a fairly average film.

But you got the satisfaction of Riker blowing them away.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 13, 2013, 01:09:04 PM
The Duras Sisters were terrible characters. Including them in Generations was perhaps the biggest blunder of a fairly average film.

Oh that's a big call there. Including the original cast was definitely the biggest blunder to me. They ended on such a good note with TUC, then they kill off Kirk in a lame and pointless death.
The Duras sisters served very little purpose, but I could tolerate them if the rest of the movie was excellent.
I still enjoy the movie though. There were some good character moments in there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 13, 2013, 01:17:02 PM
I still prefer Generations to First Contact. Blasphemy I know.

I can also tolerate Nemesis a lot more than Insurrection.

:lolpalm:

The guy with the Dude avatar from the Big Lebowski is gonna kill me. .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 13, 2013, 03:42:55 PM
There was a discussion here a while ago about whether a starship can have an "aft nacelle". . as Khan put it . .

I wanted to post then but didn't. Was gonna say that twice in that film you can hear people mention the aft nacelle.

When Scotty gets into the Vengeance hangar - you hear someone say something about the aft nacelle.

I wonder if Orci, Kurtman or Lindelof put them in the script as an in-joke.

Seems a bit odd referring to an aft nacelle twice in the film and about two seperate ships... Maybe they mean the impulse drive ? 




Haha - in Episode 3 - Quark wasn't allowed to look at a display of DS9 on his computer and in episode 4 Tosk could ask the computer exactly where all of DS9's weapons were stored from his quarters.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 13, 2013, 05:39:35 PM
Nacelle isn't specific to any one type of engine. It's simply a covering for engine parts. The casing of a wind turbine is a nacelle. I imagine in Khan's case he was referring to the impulse nacelle. I would agree that you couldn't have an after warp engine, but that's a whole different thing.

And if I recall, Quark had access codes for every bit of the station, anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 13, 2013, 06:04:36 PM
And if I recall, Quark had access codes for every bit of the station, anyway.

He "acquired" access codes that gave him a higher clearance than Odo. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 13, 2013, 06:07:02 PM
I see what you mean about Q going back to being insufferable on DS9.

On TNG - you got the impression he was only being annoying to show The Enterprise crew something about themselves as humans to help them grow.

But on DS9 he's just Encounter at Farpoint Q all over again.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaperKK on August 13, 2013, 08:36:43 PM
Started DS9 now.

Watching it chronologically instead of dipping in and out like with TNG ( seen em all so often ).

On Episode 3 now.

As skydivingninja also said, DS9 really has to be watched in order anyway. I actually don't find it that enjoyable to pick and choose individual episodes from DS9 anyway, but there is a huge payoff for watching it all in order. :tup

I think it's that time of year where I rewatch all of ds9
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 14, 2013, 02:16:19 AM
Sounds like a good enough reason to me. :hat


I just saw this linked from the Star Trek FB page.
https://www.startrek.com/article/breaking-bad-gets-its-trek-on

I've never watched Breaking Bad, but I'll ignore the countless mistakes in the dialogue for the sake of a funny animation.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 16, 2013, 12:39:48 PM
9 Episodes into DS9 and it's already pissing over Voyager.

I don't think Voyager ever had this many decent episodes in a row :P

I really like all the characters and the stories so far.

7 seasons is a lot to get through though !

I'm watching one or two episodes a night at the minute to avoid getting tired of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 16, 2013, 02:04:53 PM
Nobody here is likely to say that Voyager was as good as DS9 (except maybe Blob). That said, the first 9 episodes of Voy were better than DS9's.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 16, 2013, 02:21:49 PM
When DS9 first started, I checked it out.  It felt like a weak spin-off from TNG, which it was, and TNG was also still on the air, so I gave up on it.  My understanding is that DS9 eventually found its feet and is now regarded quite highly, and I hope to someday get around to watching it all.

When Voyager started, it was the only Star Trek, and it was new.  It was exciting, with the promise of new adventures in the fare quadrant and all that.  I somehow watched all seven seasons of Voyager in original broadcast, even though sometimes it seemed like I was disappointed at least as often as I was impressed.

Voyager's first nine were better than DS9's first nine.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 16, 2013, 04:37:31 PM
" Move Along Home " is better than I remember....

I just prefer the characters on DS9. Quark and Odo are like a hilarious bickering old couple.

Auberjonois and Shimerman are fantastic actors.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 16, 2013, 06:35:51 PM
Some of the characters are better and some aren't. Sounds like Star Trek.

One thing I will give credit to is that DS9 was cognizant of bringing up character relationships. Aside from the Picard/Data thing, there really wasn't much bonding going on that was worth a damn. Nobody gives a damn about Geordi and Data; hell, nobody gives a damn about Geordi at all. I've said all along that you could have blasted almost any of those characters, and that includes Picard, out of an airlock and the show would have gone right on along with nary a hiccup. With DS9 you had the Cisko/Old Man dichotomy. You had Odo and Quark. Bashir/Obrien. Worf actually stood out for being the loaner, which made him a better character.

The problem with DS9 was all related to when it was trying to be just more ST. It's not good as base sci-fi. It had to break completely the hell out of the ST mold to really hit it's stride, and then it just bolted.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 16, 2013, 06:42:15 PM
I actually liked the Geordi/Data thing. Bashir/O'Brien picked it up later, but TNG was the first to portray the most basic relationship of them all; friendship. All the other relationships always had some angle to them, most of them sexual. Whereas realistically, most human interactions rely on friendship, not sexual interest.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on August 16, 2013, 07:08:57 PM
When DS9 first started, I checked it out.  It felt like a weak spin-off from TNG, which it was, and TNG was also still on the air, so I gave up on it.  My understanding is that DS9 eventually found its feet and is now regarded quite highly, and I hope to someday get around to watching it all.

This to a "T"  I watched a few episodes here and there over the years, but never followed it the way I did TNG.  jingle.son is of the age now where I think I'm gonna try to make it a habit with him.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 16, 2013, 07:49:17 PM
I actually liked the Geordi/Data thing. Bashir/O'Brien picked it up later, but TNG was the first to portray the most basic relationship of them all; friendship. All the other relationships always had some angle to them, most of them sexual. Whereas realistically, most human interactions rely on friendship, not sexual interest.
I disagree. The Kirk/Spock/McCoy thing was based on friendship more than anything else. Particularly by the time the movies came around.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 16, 2013, 07:59:37 PM
Not to me, honestly. Whatever happened between Kirk/Spock/McCoy was interesting, but I don't know what friendships work that way. Geordi/Data was the "live and let live" that defines friendships.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 17, 2013, 02:04:02 AM
Nobody here is likely to say that Voyager was as good as DS9 (except maybe Blob). That said, the first 9 episodes of Voy were better than DS9's.

Nah, as a whole, DS9 was clearly the best Trek series imo, but I still prefer Voyager for individual episodes. I think being serialized is a double edged sword in that regard. It makes for a better and more cohesive series, but I also find it's not as interesting when you take an episode out of that context. DS9 had very few really bad episodes though. I'd say only a handful at most.
That said, it still has plenty of amazing individual episodes too, I just find that I generally prefer Voyager for that purpose. Slightly better highers to me, but much more frequent lows.

The first season of Voyager was enjoyable, but extremely formulaic. I thought DS9 started off strong even from the start though.

Not to me, honestly. Whatever happened between Kirk/Spock/McCoy was interesting, but I don't know what friendships work that way. Geordi/Data was the "live and let live" that defines friendships.

I never fully accepted the Kirk/Spock/McCoy thing. There was Kirk/Spock, there was Kirk/McCoy, but I never really believed there was a strong friendship between Spock/McCoy. McCoy was too much of a genuine dick to him constantly. I always got the impression that if Spock wasn't in such control of his human emotions, he would have just decked him. The '60s had a lot to learn about acceptance.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 17, 2013, 04:29:25 AM
When DS9 first started, I checked it out.  It felt like a weak spin-off from TNG, which it was, and TNG was also still on the air, so I gave up on it.  My understanding is that DS9 eventually found its feet and is now regarded quite highly, and I hope to someday get around to watching it all.

When Voyager started, it was the only Star Trek, and it was new.  It was exciting, with the promise of new adventures in the fare quadrant and all that.  I somehow watched all seven seasons of Voyager in original broadcast, even though sometimes it seemed like I was disappointed at least as often as I was impressed.
I was the exact same way.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 17, 2013, 06:51:59 AM
SO - Bill Shatner replied to me on twitter last night...

But then hundreds of people just replied to it and as I was included in the mentions - My mentions page was inundated with people trying to get a reply

from the Shat.   :mehlin Kinda annoying. But cool that Bill tweeted me. Third time I've got a reply from him :)

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 18, 2013, 09:39:49 PM
Man, Gates McFadden's makeup is always so heavy handed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 18, 2013, 09:46:43 PM
She's always confused me.  Sometimes I think she's kinda hot, but then I think it's probably just the makeup.  I try to imagine what she'd look like without all the makeup, and cannot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on August 18, 2013, 10:10:00 PM
Remember the Crusher/Troi yoga session??


*sigh*





















I'll be in my bunk...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PetFish on August 19, 2013, 12:12:50 AM
The Original Series - I never got into it.
The Next Generation - I was all over it.
Deep Space 9 - I was so-so for it.
Voyager - I really enjoyed it after Seven came on board.
Enterprise - I never got into it.

They just started Voyager again from the start on Space (Canada) and they just showed The 37's... pretty much the DUMBEST first 8 minutes in TV history.  The entire episode, while having an interesting premise, blew it on every level.

But back to the dumbness.

While flying around they encounter an old truck floating in space so they beam it aboard and begin to try and figure out what it is.  Without quoting lines of *cough* dialog, here are the lowlights of poor history edumacation in the future:


- They basically act like a bunch of aliens making first contact with some unknown object

- They don't know what gasoline is/was (except Paris)

- They don't know what an internal combustion engine is/was (except Paris)

- Paris, who knows the make/model/year/everything about the truck seems bewildered when looking for the keys (not that he can't find them, but that he has to think hard about what "keys" actually are)

- Janeway has no clue what make/model are, sure there's no Apple or Microsoft in the future (right?), but with history and basic intelligence people can figure it out

- Paris knows what an AM modulator is (AM radio) but when it plays the ... - - - ... Torres has to run it through something to figure out it's an ancient Earth distress signal called an "S.O.S."

- Janeway, not having a clue what "make/model" means, somehow goes Dick Tracy and deduces by the mud and the alfalfa seeds and the accurate smell-identifying of horse manure, not cow or chicken, but horse manure, that this is a farmer's vehicle

- Harry ACTUALLY THINKS this is an early hover-car

- When Paris starts it it backfires and they all HIT THE DECK cuz, you know, they have no idea what an internal combustion engine is

- There's a lot more dumbness but this is enough... and it's just the first 8 minutes.


So in the future, in history class, it seems they completely skip over the entire industrial revolution and even go so far as to try and wipe it from our minds.  Everyone knows about horse-drawn carriages but then there's nothing until warp drive.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 19, 2013, 12:58:18 AM
Considering it's 300 or so years in the future, and they're so far removed from our time and technology, some of those seem right to me. And some of them are stupid. Even if they had learned about cars, are they really going to know well what an old engine sounds like, or that it can backfire and make a bang noise? Very unlikely. I'll give them a pass there.

Harry Kim is still a dipshit for not recognizing a wheel though. Unless they had BTTF2 style hovercars that still drove, which would count as an early hovercar. Let's just assume he's a dipshit though. And make/model should be pretty universal, even in a time when there's less focus on companies and profits.

And they should definitely know what an internal combustion engine is, and what "gasoline" is. It's already been in use for over 100 years in almost every vehicle ever made. I'd say that warrants a mention in any cursory history lesson. :lol Especially focusing on technology, and propulsion.

Morse code has been officially not a thing for a while now, although I'd expect SOS to remain part of the culture anyway, given how simple it is to implement in any situation. I could go either way on that one.

But yeah, that is a really stupid episode. The show gets so much better once it hits S3 and especially S4. So I'm not defending that episode.

I do really hate when they randomly happen upon something from the alpha quadrant (like Klingons), or even worse, Earth. What are the odds? 1 in a bazillion trillion. And I disliked Tom Paris's apparent interest in Earth's past. It was a really contrived way to shoehorn familiar crap in there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 02:53:24 AM
:lolpalm: Voyager.

I have to see this episode now...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on August 19, 2013, 05:28:56 AM
- When Paris starts it it backfires and they all HIT THE DECK cuz, you know, they have no idea what an internal combustion engine is

No knowledge of combustion engine but they know what a gunshot is?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 06:50:32 AM
Totally gonna watch this later. ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 19, 2013, 06:58:56 AM
- When Paris starts it it backfires and they all HIT THE DECK cuz, you know, they have no idea what an internal combustion engine is

No knowledge of combustion engine but they know what a gunshot is?

They didn't say anything at all about gunshots. They heard loud repeated noises, and it caught them off guard and they ducked and looked around. That's all that happens. If anything, not recognizing a sound like it makes it more of a scare.

Totally gonna watch this later. ;D

Just to criticize some more?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 08:48:27 AM
NO THATS YOUR JOB.  :facepalm:

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 08:50:53 AM
Meanwhile
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 08:51:01 AM
Back to the episode...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 08:51:12 AM
Is that Tackleberry ? :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 19, 2013, 12:38:36 PM
- When Paris starts it it backfires and they all HIT THE DECK cuz, you know, they have no idea what an internal combustion engine is

No knowledge of combustion engine but they know what a gunshot is?
Actually, that was a pretty funny joke. Everybody hit the dirt except Tuvok who went straight into phaser mode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 19, 2013, 12:48:14 PM
Tuvok was actually pretty cool.  I remember when Voyager first hit the air, it was right when we were supposed to stop using the word "black" and instead say "African-American", which would have made Tuvok an "African-American Vulcan" which makes no sense at all.  He was a black Vulcan.  Some people just needed to deal with that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 01:52:58 PM
I was under the impression that "black" was perfectly fine and "coloured" was the one to avoid.


..Apart from the obvious, sadly still used words...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 02:30:17 PM
Also - I watched " The '37s ".

Whilst I do agree with what everyone said about it - it was by no means the worst Star Trek episode i've seen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 19, 2013, 02:39:55 PM
I was under the impression that "black" was perfectly fine and "coloured" was the one to avoid.


..Apart from the obvious, sadly still used words...

In the 80's, in my little sector of the world (U.S. Midwest), you were definitely not supposed to say "black".  It was "African-American".  But even black people thought the whole thing was stupid and "black" was okay again.  It only lasted a few years or so, but it was a movement.

I always think of Lou Reed's song "Walk on the Wild Side" where the colored girls sing "Do, do do, do do, do, do do, do, do do, do do, do, do do, do".  That was 1972, probably the last time "colored" was used.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 05:10:49 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1185786_176715629178076_2022342897_n.jpg)


So how big is Voyager ? Not very big according to this ! :p
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 19, 2013, 05:14:47 PM
https://www.startrek.com/database_article/voyager

Quote
An Intrepid-class vessel capable of holding 200 crew members, the U.S.S. Voyager NCC-74656 is one of the fastest and most powerful starships in Starfleet.
Although only 345 meters long, about half the size of the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-D, Voyager is more technologically advanced than previous Starfleet vessels. Superbly equipped for exploration and research, Voyager has an equally impressive array of defensive and offensive weapons, making it ready for action.
The U.S.S. Voyager is the second of only four Intrepid-class starships built by Starfleet to date, launched in 2371 on stardate 48038.5.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 05:17:40 PM
It looks tiny in that pic though. Like there's only a few metres between Janeway and the ship.

I know it's tv but they could have made it look like it was a spaceship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 19, 2013, 05:22:37 PM
Yeah, they certainly should have added some kind of forced perspective for scale. Presumably the ship is a very, very long ways away, but there's no way to discern that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 19, 2013, 05:23:34 PM
Shoulda put some random person under the saucer section or something for reference
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 05:32:37 PM
Well assuming the white squares on the hull are windows - people should ba just a bit smaller than that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 19, 2013, 05:59:00 PM
I'm a bit picky about things looking the right size.

That's why I loved when Vengeance crashed - the saucer was next to all those buildings and it looked f---ing gigantic.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 19, 2013, 06:30:35 PM
Shoulda put some random person under the saucer section or something for reference
You probably wouldn't be able to see a person from the range that the ship needs to be.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 19, 2013, 11:13:41 PM
OK, here's an interesting discussion: What Star Trek characters have sung on the show, both TV and movies?
Data (Insurrection)
Picard (Insurrection, the TNG episode where he gets replaced with a copy)
Worf (Insurrection, and Melota!!)
Spock several times, and along with Bones and Kirk (row row row...)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 19, 2013, 11:19:25 PM
Pretty sure Riker has but I don't remember when
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 19, 2013, 11:45:24 PM
Sisko sang with Vic Fontaine at the end of S7.
7 of 9 and The Doctor sang together in Someone To Watch Over Me, and The Doctor has sang numerous times, including Virtuoso, which was all about his singing (He didn't sing everyone in that episode though, but he usually sings everything but the operas).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 20, 2013, 06:49:01 AM
O'Brien when going after his former captain. Uhura on numerous occasions. I think Tuvok sang a lulaby on a planet with some kids. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on August 20, 2013, 07:04:47 AM
Watched the TNG episode "Family" the other night (2nd ep of Season 4, right after the Borg cliff-hanger). I specifically selected this episode because it had been a LONG time since I had seen it and I remembered how awesome Stewart was in it. The Wesley stuff dragged it down a little of course, but otherwise very enjoyable. Anyone else like it?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 20, 2013, 07:33:04 AM
It was ok. I remember the first time it was shown - it was a bit of a slower episode after the Two Parter. But watching it you get the sense that that was intentional & you needed a change of pace after all that drama.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 20, 2013, 08:10:26 AM
I read somewhere that that was indeed intentional.  "Family" was the third part of the story, the epilogue.  After all that's happened, Picard needs a break and a reality check.  So he goes home and gets drunk with his brother.  (Obviously that a massive oversimplification, but basically the idea.)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 20, 2013, 09:32:19 AM
I'm a bit picky
I would never have thought that about you.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 20, 2013, 09:57:53 AM
Trolololololol.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 20, 2013, 11:13:39 AM
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kOmevLwa5L0/TXKC3-LLYfI/AAAAAAAAAdg/vnuF22aXCfM/s1600/spaceseed.jpg)


I was going to try to find a corresponding picture of them from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, but it occurred to me: Do Kirk and Khan ever meet face-to-face in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan?  They don't, do they?  There's a lot of chat over the viewscreens and communicators, but they're always on different ships, or Kirk is down on the Genesis planet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 20, 2013, 11:58:42 AM
Not only that but Montalban and Shatner never even filmed at the same time.



Also :
(https://www.novekino.pl/multimedia/w_ciemnosci_star_trek/03.jpg)




Finally : There's a new comic series coming out explaining Nu-Khan's background in the new universe. Perhaps they'll retcon an explanation for his new appearance. Bob Orci didn't rule it out.

Maybe they had a backstory for him and a reason for his appearance but didn't have enough screen time to fit it in.

[inb4 dey had 2 make rooom for da explosions !!!11one !11 !! ]
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 20, 2013, 01:27:43 PM
P.S. !!!!

If you live in the US - you can download Star Trek Into Darkness from iTunes TODAY !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 20, 2013, 02:53:53 PM
Quote from: McCoy
I'm a doctor, not a...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MULMbqQ9LJ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MULMbqQ9LJ8)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 20, 2013, 09:17:04 PM
Trolololololol.

(https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hefdaddy42/funny/wesley.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 20, 2013, 09:59:46 PM
Finally : There's a new comic series coming out explaining Nu-Khan's background in the new universe. Perhaps they'll retcon an explanation for his new appearance. Bob Orci didn't rule it out.

Maybe they had a backstory for him and a reason for his appearance but didn't have enough screen time to fit it in.

[inb4 dey had 2 make rooom for da explosions !!!11one !11 !! ]

So that's two movies in a row that require comic books to explain the plot. You'd think JJ could have fit that into the actual movies...









BUT HE HAD TO MAKE ROOM FOR EXPLOSIONS INSTEAD OF PLOT. well you knew it was coming, and there's a good reason for that. :biggrin:


Actually, while I still really like Star Trek 11, it could have been much better if they left in most of the deleted scenes. But unfortunately, they were just plot and character moments, and not explosions or nudity, so of course they got cut.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 20, 2013, 11:12:20 PM
I was looking at sample images for the rip I'm going to DL. Eight random frames from throughout the film. Six of them had visible lens flairs and picture number 7 was this blinding mess.

(https://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo299/000jesus/NVJmkxT_zps4495d251.jpg)

I mean, I get that he has a style he's going for, but after a while it just becomes silly. Seventy-five percent?

I honestly don't know when I'll get around to watching it. I really want to give it a fair shot, but my expectations are so low that I'm not sure when I'll be feeling objective enough to give it a proper watching.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 20, 2013, 11:20:25 PM
I have a phone screen job interview tomorrow, and I'm thinking I might treat myself afterward with buying the movie and watching it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 20, 2013, 11:25:06 PM
BTW, I love this guy's costume:

(https://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110726121817/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/6/65/Palor_Toff.jpg/479px-Palor_Toff.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 20, 2013, 11:32:54 PM
Was that character's name Craterface McHoovernose by any chance? :lol

One day I should do my countdown of best alien vag-faces. I swear the make-up department had bets on who could get something most resembling a vagina on screen via someone's face.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on August 20, 2013, 11:43:05 PM
Have you thought about dressing up for your phone screen interview looking like that? 

You never know...  If the guy is a big enough Trekkie, you'd be a shoe in. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 21, 2013, 11:18:53 AM
One day I should do my countdown of best alien vag-faces. I swear the make-up department had bets on who could get something most resembling a vagina on screen via someone's face.

(https://meredithandtimwatchstartrek.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/garack1.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 21, 2013, 02:18:31 PM
Reminds me of this place on Bourbon Street in New Orleans. They specialize on oysters so they had these huge fake oysters hanging behind the bar. Problem was, with that pearl they had placed in each of them it looked like 5 enormous vaginas with clitoris in them. Then again, this was Bourbon Street, so there was a good chance it was intentional.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 21, 2013, 11:39:17 PM
One day I should do my countdown of best alien vag-faces. I swear the make-up department had bets on who could get something most resembling a vagina on screen via someone's face.

(https://meredithandtimwatchstartrek.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/garack1.png)

That one wouldn't even make the top 20. :lol You should check out George Costanza's whopper in the Voyager episode "Think Tank".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 22, 2013, 08:58:10 AM
That was a good episode though, with Jason Alexander. I still wish Janeway had made a comment at the end of the episode about the fact that the Universal Translator would choose a 20th century New York accent for the guy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 22, 2013, 09:12:24 AM
I thought it was a good episode too. He did soften his accent though, so it didn't sound too New Yorky to me.

But it would have been funny if he just played the episode as George Costanza.

KURROS IS GETTING VERY ANGRY, JANEWAY.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 22, 2013, 09:23:38 AM
One day I should do my countdown of best alien vag-faces. I swear the make-up department had bets on who could get something most resembling a vagina on screen via someone's face.

(https://meredithandtimwatchstartrek.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/garack1.png)

That one wouldn't even make the top 20. :lol You should check out George Costanza's whopper in the Voyager episode "Think Tank".

(https://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/articles/bcecafbc3e1dc2e0b09ebea8776e7a579bb9872e.jpg)

You know, I honestly didn't even notice.  It just looked like Jason Alexander with a prosthetic face, and that's all I saw.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 22, 2013, 09:29:39 AM
But now that I have pointed it out, do you see the baby cannon they stuck to his forehead?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 22, 2013, 09:30:37 AM
Oh yeah.  Cannot be unseen, etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 22, 2013, 09:51:49 AM
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/540px-Chellick.jpg)

(from another good Voyager episode btw, Critical Care)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 22, 2013, 03:50:20 PM
(https://l.yimg.com/os/251/2013/08/20/Yahoo-130-Vfx-Ext-YankeeSta-jpg_194804.jpg)




 :omg:   :metal     :heart
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 23, 2013, 08:56:37 PM
Into Darkness was alright. Certainly better than the first one, but still pretty flawed. Making BC Khan was silly. He/it would have been much better as a generic pissed off dude. Almost all of the throwback references to TWoK were stupid as hell. The blonde girl, while cute, was pretty much just eye-candy and a convenient plot device. Also, they could have turned 20 minutes of action sequences into character development and exposition and still had plenty of excitement left. That said, there was some good humor and the story wasn't bad. The special effects were much less chaotic than the first one, so you could actually tell who's shooting at what most of the time; big improvement. All in all, it wasn't bad. It's still not Star Trek, though.

And I'd give pretty good odds that The Borg are involved somehow in the third movie. I'd almost guarantee it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 24, 2013, 10:10:27 PM
"Future Imperfect" is a great episode. But damn, the alien custome at the end harkens back to first season. Wtf.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2013, 04:05:51 AM
Future Imperfect is like a less sinister "Frame Of Mind". .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 25, 2013, 04:13:26 AM
I don't really remember Future Imperfect too well, although I do remember really liking Frame of Mind.

I've seen every episode of TNG, but it's the only series I don't own (and I own all of the movies that have been released to DVD), and it was the first Trek I saw, so it's been a while since I've seen them. I really need to grab the series and rewatch it. I'll appreciate it more now that I'm more familiar with it all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2013, 04:55:55 PM
Future Imperfect is the one where Riker gets knocked out on the planet then supposedly wakes up in sick bay 16 years later. .

He know something is up when his "wife" is Minuet.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 31, 2013, 02:47:42 PM
Just watched the DS9 episode "Duel" again.

 :'(
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 02, 2013, 08:34:30 AM
I had no idea about this Planet Nibiru nonsense until yesterday. So, is JJ calling the planet in the beginning the same name, and incidentally have a cataclysmic event happen on it, a jab by him to those loonies believing in that Nibiru crap?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 02, 2013, 08:51:11 AM
What Nibiru crap?  I never even heard of it until you mentioned it.   On Wiki it's some ancient Babylonian thingy...but are you saying there's something in the modern day that JJ's taking a jab at?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 02, 2013, 09:26:34 AM
There's a group of people predicting the end of times because Nibiru will crash into Earth (which it won't, but that doesn't deter the kind of people believing in that stuff)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 02, 2013, 09:33:39 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that JJ named Nibiru after Nibiru.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 02, 2013, 01:31:43 PM
That's crazy talk!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 02, 2013, 07:32:31 PM
Really enjoying DS9 - but man - all the political cardassian / bajoran / provisional gov stuff really does nothing for me.

I don't even give a crap about UK politics - even harder to give a crap bout the politics of a fictional alien race.

And i've only just begun Season 2. There's SEVEN seasons of this stuff ? :(
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on September 02, 2013, 07:55:49 PM
The political stuff of bajor, cardassia and the federation is largely the focus of the first two seasons. It takes up much less time during season 3 and beyond.

The Circle trilogy and the season finale of season 1 (where Vedek Winn is introduced) are probably the sequence of episodes were they feature the most.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 02, 2013, 08:05:25 PM
Good good - i'm past those episodes.

Man I hated Vedek Winn :lol - she was the typical - bossy woman in power is total bitch trope.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 02, 2013, 08:51:57 PM
Good good - i'm passed those episodes.

Man I hated Vedek Winn :lol - she was the typical - bossy woman in power is total bitch trope.



I hated Vedek Winn too. But you're supposed to hate her! She played that part so perfectly, with that subtle smug arrogance and condescending attitude.

They largely drop the Bajoran politics later on, and focus more on the Dominion, and the station. They mostly deal with Bajor when it relates to what else is happening, rather than for the sake of the main story itself.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on September 02, 2013, 09:18:11 PM
I largely enjoyed the Cardassian/Bajoran politics but I don't think there was enough meat there to support seven seasons of story material.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 02, 2013, 10:02:39 PM
Man I hated Vedek Winn :lol - she was the typical - bossy woman in power is total bitch trope.
Man, she hasn't even made Kai yet. You're really gonna hate her in a couple of seasons. Fortunately, she's actually a pretty strong character until season 7, when her story becomes a bit silly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 02, 2013, 10:30:38 PM
What I always liked about later DS9 is that they dealt with religion and it's perils, but always kept the metaphysical aspect in that nebulous "wormhole aliens" realm.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 02, 2013, 10:40:26 PM
I think they got a good balance of religion and science with the Prophets.
They weren't overanalyzed to the point of destroying or downplaying the mystical powers or making the Bajorans seem silly for having a religion based around these aliens, but they were exposed just enough so that you could fit them into the more scientific idea of being powerful aliens that exist outside of our space/time, sort of like a more benevolent Q.
And the show didn't feel the need to shatter either of those interpretations.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on September 03, 2013, 12:27:43 AM
Speaking of the political map in the ST universe, have any of you ever tried to tie any of the civilizations in the shows to countries in our own time on earth? I'd be interested in seeing if any of you guys have any ideas about this. For example, are the Klingons supposed to be representative of modern day Russia ect. ect...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 03, 2013, 05:40:26 AM
Sorry for the tangent but - remember when Picard drew a smiley face in the coolant during that frozen time episode ?

I know narrative-wise that Picard was overwhelmed with the effects of the time displacement or whatever -

- but for Star Trek in general - it was a really odd little moment. I know TNG had really subtle humour but that

was something a bit different . Just drawing a :) in some frozen coolant gas.

Ok - back to DS9.


I do get a bit tired of " all religion is bad and anyone who believes them are all psycho nutcases " - but I think with Vedek Winn -

- they were perhaps trying to show that religious people with power just abuse that power and don't necessarily even believe

what they force on people - they're using it as an excuse to use gain more power.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 03, 2013, 06:52:31 AM
I really thought the TNG episode involving Wharf and Kahless to be an interesting angle on the religious aspect of the Klingons...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 03, 2013, 08:11:13 AM
Ok - back to DS9.


I do get a bit tired of " all religion is bad and anyone who believes them are all psycho nutcases " - but I think with Vedek Winn -

- they were perhaps trying to show that religious people with power just abuse that power and don't necessarily even believe

what they force on people - they're using it as an excuse to use gain more power.
Believe me, Winn is far more complex than that. While it's true she does get off on the power she gains as Kai, it's also true that she's 100% devoted to the Prophets. Her biggest flaw isn't her designs for power, but her jealousy of the fact that the Prophets are more interested in Cisko than the Bajoran spiritual leader. Like I said, she's really a damn good character.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 03, 2013, 11:17:45 AM
Speaking of the political map in the ST universe, have any of you ever tried to tie any of the civilizations in the shows to countries in our own time on earth? I'd be interested in seeing if any of you guys have any ideas about this. For example, are the Klingons supposed to be representative of modern day Russia ect. ect...

Yeah, the Klingons in TOS were a Russia equivalent. But, when they redesigned them for TNG they based them much more on Japanese imperial clothes and their code of honor.
Romulans succeeded the Klingons as a symbol for Russia, but more the Cold War type of relation with them with the constant scheming and counter-scheming, and war looming over everybody's head.
Ferengi were more a symbol for capitalism than any particular nation.
The Cardassians are interesting in that they were barely different from humans really, and the more they explored them, the more human they became (that kinda holds for most races though. Even Ferengi-nar became a socialist happy-place in the end)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 03, 2013, 01:12:55 PM
I always saw the Romulans and Klingons more in historical and mythological terms, rather than modern political. Ancient Romans and Vikings, obviously. Hell, when you think of the ultimate Romulan you think of Mark Leonard, who played his character straight out of any Shakespearean depiction of Rome. As for the Klingons, substitute Khales for Oden and Stovokor for Valhalla and they're one and the same. When TOS wanted to be symbolic of current events, they were much less subtle about it. "Fuck it, lets make an episode about Nazis, Commies, nuclear Armageddon, etc."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 03, 2013, 01:17:22 PM
I should have been a bit more explicit in my post. I was talking mostly about TNG. Because the races in TNG almost had no relation to their TOS counterparts.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: yorost on September 03, 2013, 01:19:38 PM
Ok - back to DS9.

I do get a bit tired of " all religion is bad and anyone who believes them are all psycho nutcases " - but I think with Vedek Winn -

- they were perhaps trying to show that religious people with power just abuse that power and don't necessarily even believe

what they force on people - they're using it as an excuse to use gain more power.
DS9 put a lot of emphasis in showing the Bajoran religion as a positive through Kira and other side characters. How do you see the show presenting it so one sided? It just didn't shy away from how religion can be abused or skewed, but on a base Bajorans were presented as a peaceful people, a reflection of their unified religion, that suffered greatly. Also, Winn, as El Barto pointed out, is a lot more complex than you're giving her credit for.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 03, 2013, 03:12:01 PM
I should have been a bit more explicit in my post. I was talking mostly about TNG. Because the races in TNG almost had no relation to their TOS counterparts.
I don't see much of a difference between the Romulans in the two series. The Klingons might or might not be different, as their mythos was never explored at all in TOS. They still found honor in battle, as evidenced by Kor, but otherwise none of the Viking influence that TNG/DS9 fleshed out.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 03, 2013, 03:47:10 PM
Well, to be honest, they only appeared once in TOS (Balance of Terror), no? :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 03, 2013, 03:50:17 PM
The Enterprise Incident, plus a couple of appearances where they were just shown as Klingon ships.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 04, 2013, 06:44:38 AM
Good good - i'm passed those episodes.




??? I was staring at this for ages - wondering whether i'd used the correct word. It's a weird one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 04, 2013, 10:03:21 AM
A lot of people make that mistake.
"I passed the guy, and now I'm past him"
One is a verb in past tense, the other an adjective.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 04, 2013, 10:04:45 AM
You mean "past".  "Past" is an adjective meaning that you are beyond something.  It's confusing because it means that you have "passed" it.

"Passed" is the past tense of the verb "pass" meaning to go beyond something.  Once you pass something, you
  1 have passed it
  2 are past it

Both are true.  It just depends on where you're placing the emphasis.


Ninja'd but whatever
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 04, 2013, 06:14:06 PM
Yeah English is my native tongue but It just didn't look right for some reason !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 04, 2013, 09:07:02 PM
Timeless was a very good episode.  I really like the bitter and angry Kim. The hissy-fit at the end was unnecessary, though.

It's also one of the very few crossover episodes that doesn't suck ass. Most of the time characters make appearances on other series it's pretty bad.

Lastly, in the 45 seconds of screen-time Captain LaForge had, he demonstrated far more character and personality than the Lieutenant Commander did in 7 whole seasons.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 04, 2013, 09:13:04 PM
Timeless is one of my favourite episodes. The crash is pretty epic.

I've always liked Georgi LaForge, so I liked that cameo. He had one of the best personalities out of the main cast on TNG (behind Riker).
And it didn't feel as forced as a lot of the cameos do. LeVar Burton also directed that one, so I guess there wasn't a need to shoehorn him in more than was necessary, because he was there anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 04, 2013, 09:20:22 PM
Riker had personality. He was an exception in that regard. Geordi didn't really have any. If you ask a bunch of ST fans how they'd describe him, you'd get a whole lot of blinds and blacks, and not much else.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 04, 2013, 09:24:46 PM
I disagree. I think he definitely had personality come through, compared to the rest. That's why he was one of my favourite characters.

Mind you, his double dose of minority certainly didn't go unnoticed either. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 04, 2013, 09:40:13 PM
I think Geordi's character was "average Star Trek fan". Nerdy with super-nerd friends, and having a hard time with the opposite sex.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 04, 2013, 11:28:16 PM
I think Geordi's character was "average Star Trek fan". Nerdy with super-nerd friends, and having a hard time with the opposite sex.
yeah, reasonable assessment. He was also the series flackboy; every TOS redshirt rolled into one. Both of those descriptions also apply to Kim, BTW.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 05, 2013, 05:34:48 AM
Geordi LaForge was a real life quadriplegic trek fan who Roddenberry honoured by naming a character after. .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 05, 2013, 12:48:31 PM
Melora : It's the 24th Century and Bashir lives & works in outer space and he's never once experienced zero gravity...???






Watching "Timeless" - drunk 7 was pretty funny.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 05, 2013, 02:11:30 PM
Melora?

I say ..... MELOOOTAAAA!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 05, 2013, 02:34:36 PM
cool
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 06, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
Just in case you don't know what that referred to (and one can not over-post that video anyway):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0jLi1peB4E&noredirect=1
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 06, 2013, 10:06:22 AM
That scene is awesome. Good 2 parter as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 06, 2013, 10:12:57 AM
Agreed on both counts.

Also, that four-armed keyboard player is awesome.  I swear, I wish I had four arms.  The stuff I could do.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 06, 2013, 12:29:28 PM
Something I noticed.


In Star Trek shows - nobody ever leaves a room on the first attempt :lol

Conversation ends -

Character A goes to leave - pauses then says one more thing.

Or

Character B continues conversation before character A can leave.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 08, 2013, 06:09:21 PM
Tasha Yar is the article of the day on Wikipedia, lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 10, 2013, 01:41:29 PM
I  :heart Odo. Such a good actor.

" Close Your Eyes. Take a deep breath. Clear your mind......if there's anything there. "

 :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 10, 2013, 02:05:13 PM
The other thing that I realised is that Odo's Comm badge shape shifts with him. He had to practice really hard to make hair - so I doubt it's a working part of his body :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 10, 2013, 02:24:34 PM
Never thought about the combadge issue, but it's actually quite a mess. My theory would be that it's a real combadge, which he holds internally when he doesn't want it seen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 10, 2013, 02:49:56 PM
That might work.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 10, 2013, 04:45:31 PM
Pfft, combadge. Much more interesting to think about is how sex between Kira and him worked!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on September 10, 2013, 07:10:18 PM
I'm pretty sure he just shapeshifted into Kirk.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 10, 2013, 08:43:39 PM
The other thing that I realised is that Odo's Comm badge shape shifts with him. He had to practice really hard to make hair - so I doubt it's a working part of his body :P

They even had a time he was hiding as a wall, then shapeshifting out and immediately used the commbadge! So it's definitely not just a visual reproduction of one. They messed up on that. At least they got the clothes correct when he became a shapeshifter again and turned into a bird. I was half expecting them to ignore it and have the clothes morph with him.


Pfft, combadge. Much more interesting to think about is how sex between Kira and him worked!

He can shapeshift into any size/shape he wants, and he doesn't have any human limitations, so could go forever. I assume the sex worked pretty well. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 10, 2013, 09:33:12 PM
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/rumborak/3jeta_zps66f3a335.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on September 10, 2013, 10:27:12 PM
He can shapeshift into any size/shape he wants, and he doesn't have any human limitations, so could go forever. I assume the sex worked pretty well. :lol
Assuming he suddenly didn't have to erm 'revert to liquid form.' :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 11, 2013, 02:02:41 PM
Whenever they have to laugh on DS9 - it sounds so awkward. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: yorost on September 11, 2013, 02:44:48 PM
The other thing that I realised is that Odo's Comm badge shape shifts with him. He had to practice really hard to make hair - so I doubt it's a working part of his body :P

They even had a time he was hiding as a wall, then shapeshifting out and immediately used the commbadge! So it's definitely not just a visual reproduction of one. They messed up on that. At least they got the clothes correct when he became a shapeshifter again and turned into a bird. I was half expecting them to ignore it and have the clothes morph with him.
I think his shoes morphed, though. :lol

Spoilers: What's also interesting, is that in that episode Bashir is a changeling. Doubt it came into play with the writers, but did the changelings initiate this return of Odo's ability, or why didn't changeling Bashir try to confiscate it?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 11, 2013, 06:07:47 PM
There were other issues with the combadge anyway. Take this convo:

*Picard pushes conbadge*
"Picard to LaForge, meet me in transporter room 3"
Immediate response heard through Picard's combadge: "Aye, captain."

Problem is, the com system had no way of knowing who to route the message to until Picard says "LaForge". Since you can't just cut in the audio after the "LaForge" (Geordi would just hear "Meet me in transporter room 3", which would likely get the response "who the fuck is this?"), which means the com system has to rewind and play the whole thing (which is what the show shows anyway). But, now you got a delay in the system, and the response can no longer be immediate.

/nerd
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 11, 2013, 06:45:13 PM
There were other issues with the combadge anyway. Take this convo:

*Picard pushes conbadge*
"Picard to LaForge, meet me in transporter room 3"
Immediate response heard through Picard's combadge: "Aye, captain."

Hi. I'm Patrick Stewart, and I'm a handsome actor (https://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81431821/).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on September 12, 2013, 02:46:03 AM
https://badassdigest.com/2013/09/11/how-star-trek-into-darkness-is-a-crypto-truther-conspiracy-movie/


I thought you guys might get a kick out of reading this...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 12, 2013, 05:15:32 PM
https://vimeo.com/74184382

This is cool. For anyone into CGI.

I know Blob uses After Effects and probably Element 3D ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 12, 2013, 08:58:30 PM
I read about Element 3D when it came out, but none of their demos looked anywhere near that good!
But I do use their lens flare plugin. No surprise that it's JJ approved. :lol There's even a preset called "Jay Jay".

I even (over)used it on this little Trek related video I made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZn4sm--wOk
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on September 13, 2013, 10:29:36 PM
https://www.uproxx.com/gammasquad/2013/09/j-j-abrams-will-not-direct-next-star-trek/

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 14, 2013, 12:06:17 AM
https://www.uproxx.com/gammasquad/2013/09/j-j-abrams-will-not-direct-next-star-trek/
I can see a new guy wanting to do a real ST movie, rather than Transformers with familiarly named characters, and it bombing because the people who adore the reboot will hate it. End of franchise.

At the same time, those same two asshats are writing it, so it'll probably be more of the same. Trelaine would probably be my bet, except psychotic and hellbent on revenge on Kirk for some unknown but wholly irrelevant reason. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 14, 2013, 12:12:15 AM
JJ will still be producing it too, just not directing it. Either way, I agree that the writers are the biggest problem. They're responsible for such crap that it boggles my mind that they get work.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 15, 2013, 11:01:32 AM
Which is that 2 parter with Mark Twain ?

His vocal inflections got fucking annoying by the end.

Every sentence he said - he said *EXACTLY* the same way.

" So you're TIME Travellers ? From the FUTURE ? On some kind of STAR ship !!!!! "

" You must be STOPPED !!! And i'm the one that going to DO IT !!!! "

:lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 15, 2013, 11:53:21 AM
TNG had a bad habit of making rotten second part episodes. This is probably the best example. The premise and the first half are great. The second part is dreadful.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 15, 2013, 12:36:38 PM
Well i liked the episodes but his manner of speaking got really tiresome by the end.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 15, 2013, 02:07:39 PM
The only thing I really liked about the second part is that you were (hopefully) wondering throughout the whole thing how it was going to set up the discovery of Data's head at the beginning of Part 1.  It managed to do that in a way that I thought actually worked pretty well.  Getting there, however, was really silly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 15, 2013, 02:34:37 PM
I actually love that episode. And haaaate Twain's supposed manner of speaking. Especially because we actually know how he spoke. One of his college roommates who happened to be a hobby voice impersonator recorded an impression of Twain's speaking. And it's totally different from TNG's rendition.

EDIT: Almost right, here's the recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqHPN4lW6tI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 15, 2013, 02:46:33 PM
Yeah, just watched that. The typical Twain impression is far, far less annoying.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 16, 2013, 03:30:10 PM
You know what?   I'm watching TMP right now, and you know what?   The more I see the bitching about what JJ did to Star Trek...the more I see *EXACTLY* what they are hoping for in this movie. 

They may not realize it, and maybe most people have just forgotten...but TMP is a really fantastic sci-fi movie in the classic sense (all story, no action....think: "The Andromeda Strain")...and it's completely character and story driven.   It may be the most "pure* Star Trek movie out of all 12 movies....and it is certainly the one that was the most Roddenberry driven of the entire film series...and therefore the closest to his vision.   Add that to the fact that, without the backstory of Space Seed, WoK loses a lot...and I could see this really being a dark horse on my list.

I also like the spin that Shatner put in one of his books....that the joining of Decker and Vger was the birth of The Borg.   Extremely interesting idea. 

I would welcome more movies like this...but at the same time, I urge any of you who want all character and less action and "true to the heart of Star Trek" to look back at TMP with a fresh new perspective...it may be the best "discovery" of something you already know you've had in a long time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2013, 03:36:33 PM
Meh. I've always liked it. As you say - it's funny that people bash nu-trek for being all flash and action but they also bash TMP for being all story and character.

TMP is easily better than Search For Spock, Final Frontier & Insurrection in my book.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2013, 03:37:54 PM
Unrelated - but yesterday for fun I watched Space Seed and then TWOK back to back with no gap and I enjoyed the experience.

If you wanted to watch the "Khan" trilogy - then Into Darkness comes first chronologically but it would make more sense if you watched it after TWOK probably :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 16, 2013, 03:44:55 PM
I always like The Motion Picture.  I still like it.  Of course, I remember when it was The Motion Picture, the only one.  Seeing Star Trek on the big screen was a dream come true for many fans.

But yeah, I appreciate what they were going for with TMP, even if I did understand the criticism that it was all talk, no action.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2013, 04:04:06 PM
I re-watched it recently and I didn't really find it all that slow. It breathes and takes it's time rather than beating you over the head with boredom.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 16, 2013, 04:09:16 PM
I re-watched it recently and I didn't really find it all that slow. It breathes and takes it's time rather than beating you over the head with boredom.

I always viewed the "I hate inspections" quote from Kirk at the beginning of WoK as a validation to the fans who bitched incessantly about the inspection scene from TMP going on and on and on and on..............................and ON and ON and ON..........................AND *ON AND ON AND ON*****

 :angel:

That was the only part to me that dragged a bit....but my wife says she even loves THAT scene, so who am I to disagree?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2013, 04:25:15 PM
I don't remember that scene specifically. All I can recall is Kirk boarding Enterprise and then telling Decker to F off and then leaving spaceport :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 16, 2013, 04:40:21 PM
I don't remember that scene specifically. All I can recall is Kirk boarding Enterprise and then telling Decker to F off and then leaving spaceport :lol

It's when they are inspecting the actual ship.   The original video release cut the scene down quite a bit, but in the original theatrical edition, they flew around the ship just to see the Enterprise on the big screen and it just kept going and going.   It went on for maybe 3-5 minutes....but in a movie where *nothing is happening* and you're  just looking at a ship...it feels more like 15. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2013, 04:50:56 PM
Oh that bit. Yeah I actually timed it when I watched it last and it's pretty much 5 minutes.

I love seeing 1701 though - so it's all good.

But I thought you meant inspecting the inside of the ship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 16, 2013, 05:40:50 PM
I probably rank TMP number 3, overall. The original release sucked, but the revised edition made it all make sense. Only complaints are that the flyby took too long, and they didn't elaborate more on Spock's situation. Still the Kirk/Decker rivalry was excellent.

In looking for my previous rankings, I found this which I posted a year or two ago. Funny when you rediscover interesting ideas.

Quote
Here's what really sucks.  Mankind,  being relatively primitive yet insatiably curious, sends out a bunch of rather crude probes with the incredibly naive instructions to "learn all that is learnable."  By the God-damnedest stroke of luck,  one of them stumbles through a black hole and pops up in front of advanced aliens who are sympathetic to it's cause,  and build into it the capability of actually fulfilling it's dramatically overambitious mission.  It spends 200 years traveling the galaxy,  destroying everything it encounters while accumulating a library of data so large it's unfathomable.  Not only does it possess the combined knowledge of the galaxy,  it's steadfastly determined to see every bit of that data delivered back to Earth.  And when it's finally time to unload all of that information, it up and changes it's mind and disappears off to God knows where,  never to be seen again.  If it had actually done what it was supposed to do, we could have been on par with The Q by the time TNG rolled around.

In the 23rd century,  Will Decker is history's biggest asshole. 

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2013, 05:48:51 PM
I remember that post :P

TOS Rankings

1.Khan
2.Country
3.Voyage
4.TMP
5.Spock
6.Frontier

TNG Rankings

1.Generations ( deal with it )
2.First Contact
3.Nemesis
4.Insurrection

Nu Trek

1.2009
2.Galaxy Quest
3.Into Darkness


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 16, 2013, 10:53:43 PM
Meh. I've always liked it. As you say - it's funny that people bash nu-trek for being all flash and action but they also bash TMP for being all story and character.

TMP is easily better than Search For Spock, Final Frontier & Insurrection in my book.

People don't bash TMP for being all story and character. People bash it for having little of that either. It's an episode padded out to the most plodding, dull, Trek ever.

Spending 10 minutes to show off ILM's model of the Enterprise does nothing to further the plot or characters. There are many other similar scenes that drag down the movie, just showing slow space shots. The original series had a lot of adventure, and fun, and action, but instead audiences got 2001: A Space Odyssey starring Kirk and friends.

Pacing a movie goes both ways. If you don't give the story room to breathe, you can lose emotion and reality (which I think happens a lot in the JJ Trek), but if you draw it out too much, you can lose cohesion and interest. Editing is all about knowing the exact right length to make a shot to achieve its purpose.

To me nu-Trek and TMP are both extremes, with the ideal Trek movie being somewhere inbetween.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 16, 2013, 10:57:04 PM
I probably rank TMP number 3, overall. The original release sucked, but the revised edition made it all make sense. Only complaints are that the flyby took too long, and they didn't elaborate more on Spock's situation. Still the Kirk/Decker rivalry was excellent.

In looking for my previous rankings, I found this which I posted a year or two ago. Funny when you rediscover interesting ideas.

Quote
Here's what really sucks.  Mankind,  being relatively primitive yet insatiably curious, sends out a bunch of rather crude probes with the incredibly naive instructions to "learn all that is learnable."  By the God-damnedest stroke of luck,  one of them stumbles through a black hole and pops up in front of advanced aliens who are sympathetic to it's cause,  and build into it the capability of actually fulfilling it's dramatically overambitious mission.  It spends 200 years traveling the galaxy,  destroying everything it encounters while accumulating a library of data so large it's unfathomable.  Not only does it possess the combined knowledge of the galaxy,  it's steadfastly determined to see every bit of that data delivered back to Earth.  And when it's finally time to unload all of that information, it up and changes it's mind and disappears off to God knows where,  never to be seen again.  If it had actually done what it was supposed to do, we could have been on par with The Q by the time TNG rolled around.

In the 23rd century,  Will Decker is history's biggest asshole. 

And actually...that's what makes Shatner's idea of it being "The Birth of the Borg" an even better idea.     Would have made a great idea for a film of its own...but I doubt they'd want to give Shat credit for the idea.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 16, 2013, 11:10:17 PM
In general I think a "beginning of the Borg" could make an interesting movie. Problem is, Voyager kind of established they originate in the Delta quadrant. No Starfleet to be seen, so you couldn't make a classic ST movie out of it.
Then again, I would love to see someone have the balls and make a ST with no Starfleet in it, just the plain rise of the Borg in their home territory. Fuck, you could make a series out of it. And given the Google Glasses of late, viewers would definitely buy into a show of a race that goes to the ultimate extreme of it and in the process loses their own humanity.

Damn, I should write a script.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 16, 2013, 11:12:05 PM
And actually...that's what makes Shatner's idea of it being "The Birth of the Borg" an even better idea.     Would have made a great idea for a film of its own...but I doubt they'd want to give Shat credit for the idea.
A couple of problems there. On several occasions the Borg were established canonically as being around long before the events in TMP. Coincidentally, I watched one of them just today during lunch. The Vaudwar (VOY) had dealings with them in our 15th century. At that point they were just getting started. Also, the events of FC also contradict that. The Borg existed before Zephram Cocharan's test flight; hence their attempt to send a signal to the Borg of that century.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 16, 2013, 11:15:36 PM
The idea of V'ger and the Borg being connected is just the usual novel fanwank to me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 16, 2013, 11:15:52 PM
I still think it's cool.   :angel:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 16, 2013, 11:27:44 PM
The scenario I had always envisioned was that it was the Borg who repaired V'Ger and sent it on it's merry way. As I recall, Spock's description of the aliens who repaired it bare a striking resemblance to the Borg, and they both share a similar goal.

Still, TMP was made 15 years before the idea for the Borg was ever conceived.

A similar bit of fanwank crossover is the idea that Trellaine was a prototypical Q.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 16, 2013, 11:39:13 PM
The scenario I had always envisioned was that it was the Borg who repaired V'Ger and sent it on it's merry way. As I recall, Spock's description of the aliens who repaired it bare a striking resemblance to the Borg, and they both share a similar goal.

I would wonder why the Borg would do such a thing though. I know they've been a bit inconsistent, but typically they ignore technology that is beneath them (and I'm sure a 20th century earth probe would be beneath the Borg in an era of warp capable civilizations).
The only scenario I could think of is that they wanted to see where it came from, in the hopes of finding a more advanced civilization.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 16, 2013, 11:46:58 PM
Well, the Borg behavior patterns were occasionally a bit nonsensical. Them not intervening when other lifeforms step onto their ships made for good TV, but was utter nonsense.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 16, 2013, 11:56:31 PM
The scenario I had always envisioned was that it was the Borg who repaired V'Ger and sent it on it's merry way. As I recall, Spock's description of the aliens who repaired it bare a striking resemblance to the Borg, and they both share a similar goal.

I would wonder why the Borg would do such a thing though. I know they've been a bit inconsistent, but typically they ignore technology that is beneath them (and I'm sure a 20th century earth probe would be beneath the Borg in an era of warp capable civilizations).
The only scenario I could think of is that they wanted to see where it came from, in the hopes of finding a more advanced civilization.

I disagree.  I think if you think like the Borg...they would view it as a machine needing another machines help.    Granted, it seems they would want to assimilate rather than just send it on its merry way...but we only see that attitude in relation to organic lifeforms.   
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 17, 2013, 12:08:57 AM
The scenario I had always envisioned was that it was the Borg who repaired V'Ger and sent it on it's merry way. As I recall, Spock's description of the aliens who repaired it bare a striking resemblance to the Borg, and they both share a similar goal.

I would wonder why the Borg would do such a thing though. I know they've been a bit inconsistent, but typically they ignore technology that is beneath them (and I'm sure a 20th century earth probe would be beneath the Borg in an era of warp capable civilizations).
The only scenario I could think of is that they wanted to see where it came from, in the hopes of finding a more advanced civilization.

I disagree.  I think if you think like the Borg...they would view it as a machine needing another machines help.    Granted, it seems they would want to assimilate rather than just send it on its merry way...but we only see that attitude in relation to organic lifeforms.   

I don't recall ever seeing altruistic behaviour from the Borg. It just doesn't fit with their directive, and would be imperfect behaviour for their goals.

But as rumby said, the Borg were all over the place.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 17, 2013, 06:30:27 AM
Do the Borg exist after the First Contact time line ?

Does the Borg Queen just live on - whatever happens ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 17, 2013, 06:40:33 AM
Do the Borg exist after the First Contact time line ?

Does the Borg Queen just live on - whatever happens ?

What do you mean? They just appoint a new queen I suppose, since she's in several Voyager episodes, even after dying in FC.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 17, 2013, 06:41:52 AM
Is it the same actress ? Do they explain it ? Is it a new Queen with the same face or the same Queen ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 17, 2013, 06:46:26 AM
Is it the same actress ? Do they explain it ? Is it a new Queen with the same face or the same Queen ?

It's only Alice Krige in Endgame. It's a different actress in every other appearance, but she's made up to look exactly the same, so most people wouldn't notice the difference. I think they wanted the familiarity of FC.
I'm not sure if they explain it. But I think it is just a matter of appointing a new Queen. I'm sure it's explained on memory alpha, but I can't be bothered checking.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on September 18, 2013, 01:54:58 AM
https://io9.com/the-star-trek-tng-crew-looks-amazing-in-original-serie-1333833842

Somebody photoshopped the TNG crew into TOS uniforms.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 18, 2013, 05:50:18 AM
Not bad :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 19, 2013, 07:53:35 PM
On Twitter :

William Shatner has tweeted to me 3 times.

Gates McFadden has tweeted to me 3 times.

Chris Doohan ( Son of "Scotty" actor James Doohan) has tweeted me & follows me too.

Whoever runs the " Star Trek Continues " twitter account often replies also.

:)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on September 19, 2013, 09:42:15 PM
Does William Shatner tweet one word at a time?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 20, 2013, 06:54:18 AM
Does William Shatner tweet one word at a time?

Yes he does.

Just like everyone else on the planet ;D ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 20, 2013, 07:00:48 AM
Does William Shatner tweet one word at a time?

No...........he...........tweets...........one..........word..........at a time!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 20, 2013, 07:13:12 AM
Does William Shatner tweet one word at a time?

No...........he...........tweets...........one..........word..........at a time!


Everyone speaks one word at a time :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 20, 2013, 09:27:14 PM
Watching The Undiscovered Country right now. One thing that never made sense: Why would Starfleet dismantle their starbases along the Neutral Zone just because the Klingon Empire is about to collapse? If anything, given the likely chaos it would be smart to maintain the bases until the situation has settled.
Another thing that I don't get it is, why would the President listen to Colonel West's theory of attacking the Klingons, while the Romulan ambassador is still standing there?!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 24, 2013, 06:13:21 PM
I had a thought : do I like the JJ movies so much because I spent my whole life watching the TOS crew in movies and

it's that crew I really like.

Does that make sense ? Like - I love those characters and I'm happy to have them back again albeit with different actors.

I hope they do six of these with this cast :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 24, 2013, 06:42:45 PM
Probably. That's the one thing I like about it. At the same time, I also like the ST universe, hence my fondness for DS9 and VOY, and that's something Abrams and his minions shit all over; hence part of my disgust.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 24, 2013, 06:55:51 PM
Voyager was when the rot started to set in...

And how did JJ shit all over Voyager and DS9 ? It's 100 years before all that - in a different timeline.

 ::)

The timeline that you know and love still continues - we're just seeing an alternate history.

Old Spock in the 2009 movie is proof of this. They're saying " we're doing our own thing - but here's old Spock to set it all in motion to show that we can't have our universe without the original universe. "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 24, 2013, 09:59:11 PM
And how did JJ shit all over Voyager and DS9 ? It's 100 years before all that - in a different timeline.

Which means that in the JJ universe, they don't really exist anymore (the timeline is changed so much that it would be pretty contrived to just reboot them or reuse those characters). The chances of them going back to the prime universe are slim to none, although it would have been tough to continue anyway, given how far they took it.

If Voyager counts as starting rot, I don't know what that makes JJ Trek. :lol Voyager had its obvious flaws, but JJ Trek is worse in most regards, with its nonsensical plots and wasted, empty characters.

My ideal situation would be that they manage to pull out a good third movie that isn't all empty explosions, then it does poorly because the people who only jumped on board with the JJ movies don't like it, so they stop making them, then bring back some smart Trek to TV that has absolutely nothing to do with JJ/Orci/Kurtzman, and everybody lives happily ever after.


I miss science fiction.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 24, 2013, 10:24:23 PM
I still think they could retie it to the prime u universe if they ever wanted. They've traveled back in time before (by going around the sun), just do it again. Has been done before many times, but it could be a classic "fix the past" episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 24, 2013, 10:28:29 PM
I still think they could retie it to the prime u universe if they ever wanted. They've traveled back in time before (by going around the sun), just do it again. Has been done before many times, but it could be a classic "fix the past" episode.

I never much liked it when they did that, because it felt too convenient, although TVH is my favourite TOS movie, so I guess I could deal with it. :lol

Plus if their motivation was to "fix" anything, it might not look respectful to the new timeline, and might not work too well with the new fans. With ST11, the change of timeline was accidental.

But it's scifi. There are so many possibilities along the same lines that could work. I just don't want something really fanwanky and convoluted, like a bad fan film idea.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 25, 2013, 07:29:29 AM
Roberto Orci on Trek 3 :

"My hope is that these movies have earned us the right to show another side of Star Trek that we have not fully shown yet. A genuine sci-fi mystery; that would be nice.

The third one — and this is based slightly on fan response — the third one should just be unpredictable with as many new elements as possible.”
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 25, 2013, 07:38:14 AM
Great to hear that, although long before the second movie they said something similar about it not being a typical enemy and being more scifi-ish, and it ended up not only being the typical enemy, but a recycled one.

And looking at his writing credits, and having seen a lot of things he's written for, I have absolutely zero confidence in his ability to even write science fiction.

But we'll see!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 25, 2013, 07:53:53 AM
I loved the idea for (2009) - a new timeline was a genius way to keep the original canon intact and still do something new.

Plus having Prime Spock be the catalyst was basically saying - we're doing our thing - but it wouldn't have been possible without

the original series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 25, 2013, 08:01:17 AM
I also thought that was a good way to start fresh, without doing a hard reboot and ignoring what came before, and without feeling like a shoehorned cameo from an original cast member for the sake of it, as sooooooo many reboots do. Either way, there's just no way you can reboot something so big without pissing people off, but all things considered, I think they achieved about best case there.

I just had a few problems with their execution in that one, especially a lot of the material they cut that gave a lot of important context and exposition that I feel was important to the story. They were small, but important details, and it showed that there was more focus on explosions and action than on character depth and plot cohesion. Overall I did think ST11 was a strong action movie though.

I had a lot more issues with Into Darkness though, even putting aside the Khan thing.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 25, 2013, 08:04:29 AM
I wish that Benicio got the job. Not to take anything away from Benedict but I think Del Toro would have been an amazing Khan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 25, 2013, 08:08:51 AM
I wish that Benicio got the job. Not to take anything away from Benedict but I think Del Toro would have been an amazing Khan.

As superficial as it may seem on some level, that would have made a huge difference to me in accepting the character as Khan. One of the other guys apparently considered for the part was a guy named Demian Bichir, and seeing some clips of him, I could he could have pulled it off spookily well without feeling like a parody or clone.
First clip I came across on Youtube. Tell me he would not have made a kickass Khan-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byU4uVOcmTo

I strongly get the impression JJ intentionally chose someone completely different (imo wrong) for the part just so he could try to keep the identity of Khan a secret as long as possible.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 25, 2013, 08:20:37 AM
I don't know why they kept Admiral Marcus a secret until the film came out.

Did they think that Marcus = Carol Marcus = Khan ?


That guy you mentioned even looks & sounds a bit like Montalban. You can do photoshop a wee bit ;D - you should take his face and put it in a screen shot of space seed with the long hair etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 25, 2013, 08:25:00 AM
I don't know why they kept Admiral Marcus a secret until the film came out.

Did they think that Marcus = Carol Marcus = Khan ?

I think it was a combination of trying to hide that link, and also having her there to throw people off the scent with her resemblance to the character in Where No Man Has Gone Before. Just look at that hairstyle. I think that was intentional.

That guy you mentioned even looks & sounds a bit like Montalban.

Yeah. He has the sharp eyes and prominent facial structure, and of course the accent. But I think he would have had great presence and delivery as Khan without needing to force it. I think casting him as Khan could have made me a little giddy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 25, 2013, 08:46:58 AM
They should have known the game was up when they started casting latino actors to play " John Harrison " :lol


Apparently John Harrison was the name of the crewman from Space Seed who didn't have a speaking part.


Another clue for those hardcore trekkers out there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 25, 2013, 08:48:49 AM
They should have known the game was up when they started casting latino actors to play " John Harrison " :lol

:lol Yeah.

Ok, here's my two second cruddy Photoshop of Khan. He would have much more suited TWOK Khan, rather than the sillier looking TOS Khan, but I couldn't be bothered finding pics that lined up right.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/bichir_khan.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 25, 2013, 08:49:53 AM
Not bad !


It makes me really happy that all of the TNG main cast still get on famously and hang out regularly. It would be so sad if you found out they all hated each other in reality :(

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 26, 2013, 03:39:18 AM
Can we at least agree that the worst thing about the JJ movies is Simon Pegg ?  :hat


He acts nothing like Doohan did at all - and he's just Pegg being Pegg with a rubbish Scots accent.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on September 26, 2013, 07:31:01 AM
I like Simon Pegg. I actually don't think I have any issues with the cast.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 26, 2013, 07:34:08 AM
Can we at least agree that the worst thing about the JJ movies is Simon Pegg ?  :hat


He acts nothing like Doohan did at all - and he's just Pegg being Pegg with a rubbish Scots accent.

Sorry, gotta go with Chekov as the worst. Complete throwaway joke character with a horrible parody accent and absolutely zero resemblance to the character at all.

I don't mind the casting of Pegg, and while he was mostly a gag in the first movie, I thought his character was used well in the second movie.

Sulu wasn't great either, but I'm fairly indifferent to that one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 26, 2013, 07:52:50 AM
It seems like Kirk, Spock & Bones were all perfectly cast and acted and the other 4 were all name only - Sulu came closest to the original Sulu and it would be cool to see him get his own ship in one of the movies.

I like whoever played Old Spock. He looked and sounded identical to the original. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 26, 2013, 08:02:11 AM
It seems like Kirk, Spock & Bones were all perfectly cast and acted and the other 4 were all name only - Sulu came closest to the original Sulu and it would be cool to see him get his own ship in one of the movies.

I don't think new Sulu was at all similar, but I agree on Kirk/Spock/Bones, although Bones felt like a good clone, rather than feeling quite as natural as Kirk and Spock, who I think managed to pull off the characters without trying to imitate them exactly. I don't think they could have cast Kirk and Spock better though, and probably Bones too.


I like whoever played Old Spock. He looked and sounded identical to the original. :neverusethis:

:neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 26, 2013, 08:06:46 AM
I thought Karl had the perfect amount of imitation vs acting...

I really can't imagine anyone else playing Bones as well as he does and whenever he has a line - it just IS Bones.

But yeah - they could have *at least* given Anton Yelchin the same hair as Walter Koenig. WHat's up with his curly quiff thing ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 26, 2013, 08:11:35 AM
I thought Karl had the perfect amount of imitation vs acting...

I really can't imagine anyone else playing Bones as well as he does and whenever he has a line - it just IS Bones.

He was walking a fine line of imitating vs acting for me, although at no point did I think it wandered into parody. Overall I thought he did very well, but his character was a bit less natural than Spock and Kirk. But he was still great.

But yeah - they could have *at least* given Anton Yelchin the same hair as Walter Koenig. WHat's up with his curly quiff thing ?

I hate that curly noodle hair. The '60s Beatles mop probably didn't look too good on a modern character, but I'm sure they still could have captured the essence of the character's look.
I know, Chekov isn't the most crucial or iconic character to capture a likeness of, but it doesn't even look like they tried to me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on September 26, 2013, 09:42:57 AM
I think that Karl is a better actor in general than the original Bones.  Therefore,  we have a good actor enbodying a not very complex character created by a lesser actor.

A unique situation to say the least...I think Karl does a nice job of capturing it all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 26, 2013, 10:58:54 AM
I think Karl is a great actor - just from his facial expressions whilst other characters are speaking. 

I often watch him when other characters are talking just to watch his reactions :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 26, 2013, 11:55:50 AM
I agree.  Karl Urban is great in pretty much anything I've seen him in, and the key is his expressions and reaction, and all the acting he does other than speaking.  You really buy into his characters, because they have actual... character.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 26, 2013, 12:42:30 PM
I've said it before but I love how aliens in Star Trek basically just assume anything they don't understand is a weapon which is *obviously* going to be used against their planet. :lol

Genesis Device ? Obviously a weapon to destroy the Klingons !

Even if said device is to be used for the most peaceful and humanitarian reasons - nope - secret Federation weapon to destroy alien races.

The Ferengi were used the most for this on TNG. They were really irritating in good way.

Anything Enterprise did whilst Ferengi were around was obviously an attack on them :lol

Like that episode where Riker was in charge of that old starship and because Enterprise was *firing* on it -

- it obviously contained something very valuable indeed. Certainly not a training exercise.

I loved when they did that in TNG because it was irritating - but also really entertaining at the same time.

They knew how to write annoying aliens that jump to the wrong conclusions and then get their comeuppance at the end.

:)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on September 26, 2013, 12:49:08 PM
I loved KU in Xena :eyebrows:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 26, 2013, 12:56:54 PM
I loved KU in Xena :eyebrows:

I bet he was enjoying it too. ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 26, 2013, 02:47:43 PM
Just thinking of it now, was there any explanation in the movie why Carol Marcus had a British accent while Admiral Marcus is an American?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 26, 2013, 03:14:47 PM
In a deleted scene it was revealed that in this new timeline - Admiral Marcus moved to London and Carol grew up there instead.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 26, 2013, 03:18:06 PM
Just thinking of it now, was there any explanation in the movie why Carol Marcus had a British accent while Admiral Marcus is an American?
Alternate timeline, duh.

I actually thought both Sulu and Chekov were pretty reasonable in the second movie. Chekov was always supposed to be the kid on the show, and while he/they probably went a bit overboard with the insecurity, he still fit the same role. As for Sulu, it was always suggested that he was far more of a badass than was ever let on during TOS. The original Kirk knew that and had no qualms about leaving him in charge even when they were at war with the Klingons. Were it not for Shatner, that would have been developed much sooner. I was glad when the knew movie gave him the opportunity to be that badass.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 26, 2013, 03:25:51 PM
Someone designed a JJ-style Excelsior.

Would be cool to see Sulu be in charge of it at some point.
(https://th07.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/157/a/a/uss_excelsior_comparison_by_balsavor-d3i8gmb.jpg)

Of course - the original Excelsior was 2x Bigger than Enterprise-A - which would make a JJ Excelsior as big as Uss Vengeance.


They could write it in as " Making a ship as powerful as Vengeance - but not a warship. To correct the errors of Khan and Adm. Marcus " .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 26, 2013, 09:26:02 PM
In a deleted scene it was revealed that in this new timeline - Admiral Marcus moved to London and Carol grew up there instead.

Does that mean there were deleted scenes, but they didn't include them on the DVD/Bluray?

I loved KU in Xena :eyebrows:

:hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 27, 2013, 05:10:26 AM
In a deleted scene it was revealed that in this new timeline - Admiral Marcus moved to London and Carol grew up there instead.

Does that mean there were deleted scenes, but they didn't include them on the DVD/Bluray?


Apparently so. Also there was a cut scene involving Kirk asking Uhura to patch Scotty thru the ship to his communicator.

That would have saved all those snide " fnar fnar - so you can just phone people across light years now ? "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 27, 2013, 05:12:08 AM
I saw another of those " Derpy Derp everyfing wrong with into darkness " type videos

and most of them were common sense or explained in the film.

or just nit picking to the extreme.. [ like - having the voice from a previous scene carry on in the next scene - that's not a mistake - that's an artistic / narrative decision. ]

I could find more things wrong with his video than he found "wrong" with the film.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 27, 2013, 05:18:50 AM
In a deleted scene it was revealed that in this new timeline - Admiral Marcus moved to London and Carol grew up there instead.

Does that mean there were deleted scenes, but they didn't include them on the DVD/Bluray?


Apparently so. Also there was a cut scene involving Kirk asking Uhura to patch Scotty thru the ship to his communicator.

That would have saved all those snide " fnar fnar - so you can just phone people across light years now ? "

To me it was pretty clear even without being explicitly shown that it was being patched through the ship. That was just common sense to me. Same way a cell phone works. It only has a range in the tens of km's/miles, and yet you could call anyone from it.
I think there are a ton of legit issues with Into Darkness, but that is not one of them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 28, 2013, 03:28:27 PM
Just wondering. Did you like Into Darkness more than you disliked it ?


Secondly : request for new Star Trek thread called

"The United Threaderation of Planets."







(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVSbFgQCMAAu36z.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 28, 2013, 09:02:14 PM
Just wondering. Did you like Into Darkness more than you disliked it ?

I'm not even sure of the answer to that one. Don't get me wrong, there was still plenty I liked, but overall I think my dislike probably outweighed it. But I really don't want to answer that one until I see it again some time.
And to clarify, despite my complaints about ST11, I really like that movie a lot, but my complaints about that movie reflect significantly on JJ, and why I don't like him.

And don't tell me Uhura is the new Troi. Female drivers, right? :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 28, 2013, 10:39:27 PM
The Paramount theme at the end of every TNG episode?

...is the opening notes of the Star Wars theme sped up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 30, 2013, 03:24:44 PM

Abrams on Trek 3 : " It’s a valid argument that it’s about time for them to go off and discover and see things that have nothing to do with what we’ve seen before, and I think we’ll always have some overlap. But I’m excited about the next chapter. "

Kurtzman on Trek 3 : " But we always imagined that we were creating an alternate timeline so we could play in harmony with canon. We can see things that were familiar, but also the events themselves might have minor differences, and sometimes major differences. I think that leaves us room to go either way and be unpredictable, which is the whole point of creating an alternate timeline. At the end of the day, because we give so much thought to what the stories are going to be and how to tell them, it’s ultimately about what feels right. Certainly our ears are open to what fans are saying about the show, the movies and our movies, so that all goes into the stew. "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 30, 2013, 03:39:00 PM
So in other words, more of the same. Remember, the "fans" like explosions and chases and familiarly named bad guys. The people who want to see actual sci-fi and unknown phenomena are the people like me and BVD, and Abrams and Kurtzman don't give a flying fuck about either of us.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 30, 2013, 07:01:02 PM
 ::) I don't know one Star Trek fan who liked 2009 & Into Darkness just for LE BANGS AND LE CRASHES.

Hate on them all you want - but the overwhelming message is - more exploration - less set pieces.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 30, 2013, 07:32:14 PM
I re-read my post and I don't see the word "just" anywhere in it.

The fact remains that these movies aren't made for the people who grew up watching ST in one of it's various iterations, and the people they are made for will find a true exploration movie dull and boring. You tell me, if the next movie were based on The Immunity Syndrome, or The Changeling would it make half the dough the first two did? They'd bomb spectacularly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 30, 2013, 07:39:50 PM
I've been watching Star Trek for 30 years and I adored the last two films. :dunno:

And I hate stupid brainless action films with no plot.

Guess I must not be a real Trekker. :dunno:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 30, 2013, 08:01:13 PM
I've been watching Star Trek for 30 years and I adored the last two films. :dunno:
Not something I said or suggested.

And I hate stupid brainless action films with no plot.
Not something I said or suggested.

Guess I must not be a real Trekker. :dunno:
Not something I said or suggested.

I did ask a question, though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 30, 2013, 08:33:12 PM
BRB GOING TO THE FUTURE TO GET THAT ANSWER FOR YA
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on October 01, 2013, 11:16:04 AM
J.J. Abrams apologizes for all those Star Trek lens flares (https://io9.com/j-j-abrams-apologizes-for-all-those-star-trek-lens-fla-1429457615)

I'm not familiar with the io9 website, so I don't know if this is a joke or what.  It honestly seems to me like it could go either way.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 01, 2013, 12:26:28 PM
The lens flare thing has been blown out of proportion.

I honestly didn't notice them in "into Darkness" the first time.

Simon Pegg is right - it's become to "in thing" to use to bash JJ's trek films.

It's like a buzzword that people love to throw around but don't really understand.

There's a segment on the making of for 2009 and it shows some shots without lens flare and they just look lifeless and dead.

I like JJ's reasoning behind it too - on home movies - you always get natural flares - so when you see them in a movie -

You subconsciously associate it with being *real*.

:dunno: TL;DR they don't bother me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 01, 2013, 10:20:14 PM
I can't remember how much it was used in Into Darkness (which is probably a good sign, I guess), but it was overdone in ST11. When I saw it the first time, it stuck out from the first scene, with the sweeping shot of the Kelvin, then the bridge.

It is mostly just the bridge/ship shots, and the CG space shots, but they're plagued by lens flares. It's one thing to want to exploit the look of natural flares for effect (which is not a bad idea), but JJ purposely added extraneous lights to the bridge literally just for the sake of flares. That's the definition of excessive, and even a bit lazy and uninspired.

Whether you understand lens flares, or just think they're ghost orbs, the average person notices them, and they're distracting. Other movies have managed to look visually interesting without hiding under lens flares, especially when your subject matter is spaceships! That's already a goldmine of visual interest.

Maybe they just needed to add more barcode scanners.....
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 04, 2013, 06:03:17 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVuy__kCQAE9A2B.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 06, 2013, 09:22:31 AM
https://www.buzzfeed.com/paulaersly/every-major-sci-fi-starship-in-one-staggering-comparison-cha?6467918=1




Still think Uss Vengeance is ridiculously too big for sci fi ? ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 06, 2013, 09:34:19 AM
Is the Vengeance on there? I'd like to know how big that monstrosity is supposed to be. Awful, awful ship.

It's bad enough that the new Enterprise is *however the hell big they decide it is today, but either about 650m or 950m depending on what mood they're in*, and the Vengeance completely dwarfed that, so the thing must be several kilometers long.
It makes no sense that in this timeline they'd be making ships that huge, especially when it's a top secret ship with a smaller crew that's only designed for firepower, not its spacious ballroom. It was so big, that it lost all impact (no pun intended :lol )
Not to mention that it's fuglier than the Excelsior / Enterprise B. That's a tough feat.

Ships from other shows have no sense of realistic scale to me, so I disregard them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 06, 2013, 09:39:44 AM
Is the Vengeance on there? I'd like to know how big that monstrosity is supposed to be. Awful, awful ship.


Uss Vengeance is 1400m long. Which is like a mm on that chart.

I love Uss Vengeance :dunno: . I love the design and the look of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 06, 2013, 09:57:34 AM
Is the Vengeance on there? I'd like to know how big that monstrosity is supposed to be. Awful, awful ship.


Uss Vengeance is 1400m long. Which is like a mm on that chart.

I love Uss Vengeance :dunno: . I love the design and the look of it.

Is that all? That puts it at a max of twice as long as the JJ-prise. I recall it looking a lot larger in comparison on screen.
But the JJprise was ridiculously overscaled as is (longer than any other original universe Enterprise, including the D/E), so to have a ship twice as big as that is even more ridiculous, for the reasons already stated. And the ship looked so phoned in.

What I love about classic Trek ships is the thought that went into their design (even though there were some major mistakes there).
Even now you can ask any of those Trek guys (such as Sternbach, Probert, Drexler), and they had those ships planned out with a lot of care and thought, and knew what every little greebly on the ship was, and could describe those ships as if they were real technology that follows the rules of the "universe". It made the universe feel that much more real if you were so inclined to care about it.

The Vengeance is not surprisingly following the Star Wars method of just making ships giant unbelievably huge blocks, with random greebly detail all over it that means nothing. It's just a giant thing that was designed only to look big and imposing. But it doesn't look real or believable, or well thought out at all. It looks like someone slapped it together in a couple of days with no care at all, because it didn't matter.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 06, 2013, 10:05:58 AM
The vengeance was designed to be big and imposing.




You'd never guess it was designed by a savage tyrant bent on destroying under the control of a warmongering admiral who wanted to militarise Starfleet but whatever.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 06, 2013, 10:13:11 AM
Don't get me started on the concept of a dinosaur from the 1990s being at all useful in designing a warship 300 years in the future. In his time they didn't even have warp drive, or any phaser weapons. It would be like getting Edison to help design the next Pentium processor. And he shouldn't have had any idea where the thing was even located. And again, why was it so damn huge? And again, how the hell does the product of superior breeding end up with blood that cures death and radiation poisoning, and how does that go unnoticed?


Gah, don't even get me started on that movie again (as if I stopped :lol ). It completely baffles me how Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman are allowed to write science fiction, or write anything for that matter.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 06, 2013, 10:14:12 AM
Cool. Then I;ll continue to post why I like it and you can stop finding fault with my every opinion.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 06, 2013, 10:16:03 AM
Um, it's a forum, for discussion. If I find fault with something being discussed, I'll discuss it.
Kind of ironic for you to take issue with criticism. :lol :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 06, 2013, 05:01:16 PM
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-92fMsg7eO2g/Uhf-EOSL9XI/AAAAAAAAUNw/0gG7NxpMmDE/s1600/Star+Trek+Into+Darkness+Xbox+SmartGlass+USS+Vengenace+crash+concept+art.jpg)



It's nowhere near as big as it was in the concept art.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Vivace on October 11, 2013, 01:35:07 PM
Star Trek Into Darkness was a great idea, middle managed into a trite movie. I was really hoping to like it but it's pretty dumb when compared to the great movies like Undiscovered Country or Wrath of Khan. I kinda felt as if I was watching some weird hybrid of a Michael Bay movie and Tony Scott movie that tried to be a Star Trek movie. Ugh... At least the action sequences were okay.

I have started to watch Star Trek Voyager. Wow... talk about a series that gets your hopes up only to shatter them in a single pilot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 13, 2013, 02:06:23 PM
I have ST TMP running in a window on my laptop right now. It's at 32 minutes into the movie, and the Enterprise finally leaves spacedock :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 13, 2013, 09:12:05 PM
Judging by when you posted that, I'm guessing you're almost done with the wormhole scene by now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 13, 2013, 09:58:52 PM
:lol

Seriously.

Another thing that had me giggling when I heard it:

Spock:  "I believe the closed orifice leads to another chamber."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on October 14, 2013, 07:27:33 AM
 :omg:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on October 15, 2013, 10:00:43 AM
(https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1010849_486209424788926_393347201_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on October 18, 2013, 10:18:55 AM
 :lol

https://mentalfloss.com/article/53236/now-you-can-rickroll-your-friends-or-enemies-klingon (https://mentalfloss.com/article/53236/now-you-can-rickroll-your-friends-or-enemies-klingon)

(https://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_640x430/public/klingon_rickroll.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on October 28, 2013, 10:35:39 AM
Can't believe it took The Agony Booth this long to post a ST09 review:

https://www.agonybooth.com/movies/Star_Trek_2009.aspx
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 28, 2013, 10:46:06 AM
" He attacks Spock’s ship, but the red matter creates a black hole that sends both ships back in time (of course it does)."

Yep. It's fiction.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on October 28, 2013, 02:21:34 PM
" He attacks Spock’s ship, but the red matter creates a black hole that sends both ships back in time (of course it does)."

Yep. It's fiction.

And they come out 25 years apart? And what has Nero been doing these past 25 years?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 28, 2013, 06:40:43 PM
He was in a Klingon prison. But that scene was not in the final film.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 28, 2013, 07:06:42 PM
But that scene was not in the final film.
That seems to happen a lot. Doesn't it seem to you that perhaps all that time Kirk spent running from whatever sort of frost troll he found on the Spock planet might have been better spent on the plot elements that wound up on the cutting room floor?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 28, 2013, 08:41:59 PM
But that scene was not in the final film.
That seems to happen a lot. Doesn't it seem to you that perhaps all that time Kirk spent running from whatever sort of frost troll he found on the Spock planet might have been better spent on the plot elements that wound up on the cutting room floor?

Yep, that's one of my major beefs with ST11 (and JJ in general). They favour action over actual plot every time. The plot on its own makes almost no sense as a coherent scifi story.
Some of the scenes they deleted were imo important in helping the story work (without expecting people to read a comic to fill in the blanks that should be in the damn movie), and also important character moments. They cut out a scene that would have made me a lot more sympathetic to Kirk, but instead in the final movie he just looks like a rebellious dick for the sake of trying to force a badass character that didn't relate to the Kirk character we already knew.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 29, 2013, 11:10:18 PM
Rewatching some TOS. Man, they have some weird episodes where they made some 20-yo woman play a young girl (like in "Miri" where Kim Darby was 19 at the time of shooting). I guess it was easier and cheaper to do that instead of getting a child actor, but it's a really weird watch.
Even worse is the actress in "Court Martial". I think she's supposed to be a young teenager (by the dress), but the actress is clearly a grown-up woman.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 29, 2013, 11:51:48 PM
It's such a common occurrence for young characters to be played by older actors that it sadly doesn't jump out to me anymore. :lol

I just drew up this crappy graph to show how it works-
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/actor_age.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 29, 2013, 11:53:49 PM
:lol

That's pretty accurate actually.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 29, 2013, 11:58:32 PM
The good news is that we could still play extras on Glee. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 30, 2013, 09:45:13 AM
Yeah, that still happens on the newer series. Naomi Wildman was quite a bit younger than the actress that played her, and the younger Borg chick was even older. Like BVD said, I hardly notice it anymore.

What really jumps out is the old classics, where they'd get midgets to play kids to avoid child labor laws. Spartacus might be the worst offender in that regard. It's actually pretty creepy when they show big familial settings in their camps and it's full of 20 year old looking toddlers.

And how old was Miri supposed to be, anyway? I always assumed she was supposed to be 16 or so, which is hardly a big deal to be portrayed by a youngish looking 20 yo. If they describer her as 12 or something I could see your point.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 30, 2013, 09:55:34 AM
Yeah, that still happens on the newer series. Naomi Wildman was quite a bit younger than the actress that played her, and the younger Borg chick was even older. Like BVD said, I hardly notice it anymore.

What really jumps out is the old classics, where they'd get midgets to play kids to avoid child labor laws. Spartacus might be the worst offender in that regard. It's actually pretty creepy when they show big familial settings in their camps and it's full of 20 year old looking toddlers.

And how old was Miri supposed to be, anyway? I always assumed she was supposed to be 16 or so, which is hardly a big deal to be portrayed by a youngish looking 20 yo. If they describer her as 12 or something I could see your point.

I recall they get the disease once they hit puberty or something like that? I think she was supposed to be pretty young. It would have been too creepy to have anyone much younger for the part anyway imo, given Kirk's scenes with her.

I just skimmed Miri, and I think there are a couple of midgets in there too, which would explain why that episode creeps me out. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 30, 2013, 10:01:42 AM
I have a challenge for El Barto & Blob :lol

List everything about 2009 & Into Darkness that you enjoyed.


I'll list things I didn't like about them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 30, 2013, 10:07:29 AM
2009 : The line " that's what we've been doing for 25 years " . One of the worst expostional lines ever.

Pike making cadet Kirk first officer just like that.  Ok he believed in him and wanted him to succeed and he did sneak on board the Enterprise just to try and save them but yeah it was still a leap. I'm sure there was someone else who was a promotion away from being first officer.

Kirk ending up on Delta Vega where Spock Prime & Scotty both happen to be. Even if it was destiny - it was a bit heavy handed.


Into Darkness : the line : " So - Harrison has gone to the klingon Home World. " You got that audience ?

Khan didn't even need to be in this film. He could have just been Genetically engineered John Harrison - created to design tech who goes rogue when Marcus holds his family / crew hostage. Would have been the same .

I didn't mind the reactor scene, I thought it was a nice touch and it served a narrative purpose. However - it had nowhere near the emotion of 2009's opening scene. JJ can do better.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 30, 2013, 10:21:03 AM
Yeah, that still happens on the newer series. Naomi Wildman was quite a bit younger than the actress that played her, and the younger Borg chick was even older. Like BVD said, I hardly notice it anymore.

What really jumps out is the old classics, where they'd get midgets to play kids to avoid child labor laws. Spartacus might be the worst offender in that regard. It's actually pretty creepy when they show big familial settings in their camps and it's full of 20 year old looking toddlers.

And how old was Miri supposed to be, anyway? I always assumed she was supposed to be 16 or so, which is hardly a big deal to be portrayed by a youngish looking 20 yo. If they describer her as 12 or something I could see your point.

I recall they get the disease once they hit puberty or something like that? I think she was supposed to be pretty young. It would have been too creepy to have anyone much younger for the part anyway imo, given Kirk's scenes with her.

I just skimmed Miri, and I think there are a couple of midgets in there too, which would explain why that episode creeps me out. :lol

Yeah, the way I perceived it Miri was supposed to be about 13-14.

TOS' relation to children was weird anyway. Look at "And the children shall lead" where they are creepos too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 30, 2013, 10:32:35 AM
All I remember of that episode off the top of my head is all of the kids doing a jacking off motion with their hands to control people. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 30, 2013, 11:35:16 AM
To be fair, pretty much everybody and their dog disavowed that episode. I remember the first time I saw it, I knew every episode inside and out, having seen them all countless times, and was shocked when they aired this. Rumor had it that Melvin Beli was so ashamed of being associated with such a rotten episode that he badgered them into burying it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on November 02, 2013, 05:09:05 PM
https://boomstickcomics.com/2013/11/attack-the-block-director-joe-cornish-might-be-the-next-director-for-star-trek-3/

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 02, 2013, 06:30:22 PM
Never heard of him, nor attack the block. However, since I'm expecting another action movie rather than a ST movie, I doubt it'll matter.


I have a challenge for El Barto & Blob :lol

List everything about 2009 & Into Darkness that you enjoyed.


I'll list things I didn't like about them.
I have no desire to go piece by piece ( :metal) through the movie, but I will certainly give you an overview. I didn't hate either of them. The aspects I liked remained the same through both of them, which is most of the characterizations. With one or two notable exceptions I thought the way it was cast and the use of the characters was good. I also enjoyed a lot of the jokes and callbacks. Overall I thought they'd both be enjoyable films to watch in a light-hearted sort of way were I not so annoyed by its trying to be something that it clearly isn't.

I've recently watched Porky's, Weird Science and Smokey and the Bandit (and Cannonball Run today in honor of Hal Needham). Three movies I enjoy immensely. None of them will ever be known as great films (maybe Porky's some day). They're still quite funny and enjoyable to watch. I'd be willing to give the same benefit to JJA's STs and throw it on some Saturday afternoon while cleaning up around the homestead. Unfortunately, I find it too aggravating to overcome the aspects of it I do enjoy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 02, 2013, 10:50:29 PM
So, I've been trying to watch TAS because it's the only series I never completely watched. Man, it's so bad.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 02, 2013, 11:05:59 PM
So, I've been trying to watch TAS because it's the only series I never completely watched. Man, it's so bad.

Wa-wa-WHAAAAT?????

I haven't watched them since I was a kid, but I decided to check them out on Netflix out of curiosity, and I was instantly impressed that the story writing was up to the standard of TOS....easily.

After doing some reading up on it, I recently read that it wasn't considered "canon" for ages because of legal reasons...(studio related, if I remember correctly)...but in the early 2000's, those issues were cleared up and TAS was officially made "canon" and unofficially considered as "the fourth season" of TOS that everyone begged for.

I personally think it liberated the show.  They got a chance to do more with the crew and alien races that they couldn't do in TOS due to budget restraints. 

Same writers, same actors....I personallly don't see how anyone could distance it from TOS.   Anyone who likes seasons 1 & 2 of TOS should have no problem with TAS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 03, 2013, 12:09:55 AM
I remember watching TAS during its original run.  It was dismissed by many because it was "cartoon" and was on Saturday mornings, which is when cartoons were on back then.  But it was legit.  I even remember thinking how the voice actors they'd gotten were great; they sounded just like the original actors.  I figured there was no way they actually were, since it was a Saturday morning cartoon, but they were.  TAS is "real" Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 03, 2013, 01:58:57 AM
So, I've been trying to watch TAS because it's the only series I never completely watched. Man, it's so bad.

I've watched every single live action episode of Trek, and I still haven't built up the courage to watch TAS. :lol I've seen clips on Youtube, and it was pretty bad.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 03, 2013, 07:18:52 AM
The animation itself is pretty bad.  That's the worst part.  The stories themselves and the (voice) acting is on par with the rest of the original series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 03, 2013, 07:21:05 AM
Having stories on par with TOS isn't much of an achievement for the most part imo. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 03, 2013, 08:04:57 AM
Man....you guys have forgotten how to be kids when appropriate. 

I watched TOS in reruns with my older brother when I was 8 years old.   I suppose that's why I think every single episode of TOS is pure gold.

I mean, I'm 44 years old.   But if I had forgotten how to be a kid and use my imagination where appropriate....I would look at the show and say, "This is stupid...they have fake, novelty vomit flying through the air and really bad fake acting paralysis whenever it touches anyone."   

I think I'm fairly happy to not be a jaded as you guys are.  Because the show I just referenced is one of my favorites.  It was one of the first ones I ever saw...and it actually scared the crap out of me when I was 8. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 03, 2013, 08:11:23 AM
I first saw TOS a few of years ago, so I judge it for what it is, not through any rose tinted glasses of nostalgia. That's not being jaded, that's just judging it for what I see. I shouldn't have to be a kid to appreciate science fiction.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 03, 2013, 08:20:08 AM
I first saw TOS a few of years ago, so I judge it for what it is, not through any rose tinted glasses of nostalgia. That's not being jaded, that's just judging it for what I see. I shouldn't have to be a kid to appreciate science fiction.

Well...not science fiction in general...  But TOS is different because you have to remember that it was created AS A KIDS SHOW.    People didn't start taking it seriously until later. 

That's why (I feel anyway) that you need to approach TOS in that frame of mind.  Regardless of what it became later, the original show was designed to be a kids (not *little* kids, but not grown ups) show.     So I always tell people to try to approach it from that frame of mind.  Always revert back to when you were 12-14 when watching TOS, or you just won't appreciate it for what it was.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 03, 2013, 08:23:45 AM
@EB: Same here, I had never seen it as a kid. I can see that a kid might not care so much and just be excited about weird creatures doing funky stuff. But as part of the Star Trek universe it stands out as by far the worst series. The characters have become mockeries of themselves (especially Spock who seems to have become this telepathic superhero who saves everybody at the end from a plot dead end).

Regarding the canonicity of TAS, Roddenberry declared it non-canon himself because he didn't like the way it came out.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 03, 2013, 08:25:54 AM
Jammin, are you talking about TOS or TAS? I have never heard anybody say that TOS was supposed to have been a kid's show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 03, 2013, 08:27:41 AM
From what I've seen Blob, you judge it based on comparisons with modern programs. I don't think we're talking about rose colored glasses of nostalgia (though I like the metaphor). I think we're talking about viewing it objectively without it having to compete with DS9 or BG.


edit: Rumbo, I have no idea to which remark of mine you're referencing (unless you've become precognitive and it's this one).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 03, 2013, 08:29:57 AM
Sorry, meant Blob :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 03, 2013, 08:32:48 AM
From what I've seen Blob, you judge it based on comparisons with modern programs. I don't think we're talking about rose colored glasses of nostalgia (though I like the metaphor). I think we're talking about viewing it objectively without it having to compete with DS9 or BG.

But I am viewing it objectively, and just judging it for what it is, rather than giving it a free pass for being an old show. I watched this before DS9, and after Voyager (and I have no interest in BG), but I'm judging it as a self contained entity, and the plots of many individual episodes are just ridiculous. There's just no way I can take American Constitution planet or Nazi planet seriously.

By an objective comparison, the show largely looks very silly these days imo. There are some episodes that are genuinely great Trek (and it's undeniably classic scifi), but I seriously laugh my ass off through about 90% of the episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 03, 2013, 08:35:20 AM
Jammin, are you talking about TOS or TAS? I have never heard anybody say that TOS was supposed to have been a kid's show.

TOS....and again, it was not meant to be a *LITTLE KIDS* show (7-8 yr old demographic) but just like any western from the 60's....it was designed for a much younger demographic.   Unless you thought DAD was bringing his Star Trek lunch box to his construction site. 

TAS *may* have been geared towards a younger audience (7-8 yr olds)...but TOS was definitely designed for the young teens.   
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 03, 2013, 08:40:07 AM
But I am viewing it objectively, and just judging it for what it is, rather than giving it a free pass for being an old show. I watched this before DS9, and after Voyager (and I have no interest in BG), but I'm judging it as a self contained entity, and the plots of many individual episodes are just ridiculous. There's just no way I can take American Constitution planet or Nazi planet seriously.

By an objective comparison, the show largely looks very silly these days imo. There are some episodes that are genuinely great Trek (and it's undeniably classic scifi), but I seriously laugh my ass off through about 90% of the episodes.
That's my point. If I judge The Good, the Bad and the Ugly or The Big Country based on modern standards I'd find them equally laughable. Public hangings? Complete lack of public order? Thankfully I don't and consider them exceptional films.

Also, all of the other series have equally stupid plots. Were the dinosaur or Janeway/Paris lizard humping episodes really any worse than The Omega Glory? (The Nazi episode actually had a perfectly decent explanation, so I won't count that one).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 03, 2013, 08:48:33 AM
But I am viewing it objectively, and just judging it for what it is, rather than giving it a free pass for being an old show. I watched this before DS9, and after Voyager (and I have no interest in BG), but I'm judging it as a self contained entity, and the plots of many individual episodes are just ridiculous. There's just no way I can take American Constitution planet or Nazi planet seriously.

By an objective comparison, the show largely looks very silly these days imo. There are some episodes that are genuinely great Trek (and it's undeniably classic scifi), but I seriously laugh my ass off through about 90% of the episodes.
That's my point. If I judge The Good, the Bad and the Ugly or The Big Country based on modern standards I'd find them equally laughable. Public hangings? Complete lack of public order? Thankfully I don't and consider them exceptional films.

Also, all of the other series have equally stupid plots. Were the dinosaur or Janeway/Paris lizard humping episodes really any worse than The Omega Glory? (The Nazi episode actually had a perfectly decent explanation, so I won't count that one).

Sure, the other series undoubtedly had some equally terrible episodes, but they were the exception, not the rule as they were in TOS. There are only a handle of TOS episodes I can watch without genuinely laughing out loud.

I don't know what you class judging it objectively as, but that shouldn't involve watching it through the eyes of a 1960's kid. It should involve judging it based on logic and believability, and by my judgement, the plots of TOS don't hold up the vast majority of the time.

I can watch films from the 1930s by the same objective judgement, and love them, so it's not about judging them by unrealistic modern expectations. I'll gladly overlook the tacky sets and technicolour lighting, I just want a basic plot that holds up without shutting my brain off entirely. I love Voyager, so I don't think my standards are all too high here. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 03, 2013, 09:04:20 PM
The animation itself is pretty bad.  That's the worst part.  The stories themselves and the (voice) acting is on par with the rest of the original series.

I agree that animation was a good chunk of the problem of TAS, but actually in a different way. The problem is that they often exchanged good storytelling with just some fantastic and ridiculous-looking alien. TOS didn't have the budget so they had to focus more on dialogs, but in TAS they could just create a few slides w with some fantastic creature and that was it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 03, 2013, 09:13:22 PM
In TAS, I felt like they sometimes had to sacrifice *a bit* of quality for brevity (going from a full hour to a half hour)...but for what it was, I think it was excellent.

I went in with my expectations very low, and they were exceeded by a long shot.   I've been surprised at how much I am enjoying them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on November 04, 2013, 04:41:35 PM
(https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1391465_10152007518109066_213022680_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 05, 2013, 05:10:43 PM
Man, is there anything in the ST world as anti-climactic as the end of Enterprise season 3, when they destroy the Xindi weapon and wind up in some silly-ass Nazi thing instead of returning home? Christ, not every season has to end with a cliffhanger.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 05, 2013, 07:03:16 PM
Still waiting for Blob to tell us all what he *did* like about Into Darkness... :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 05, 2013, 07:31:44 PM
Man, is there anything in the ST world as anti-climactic as the end of Enterprise season 3, when they destroy the Xindi weapon and wind up in some silly-ass Nazi thing instead of returning home? Christ, not every season has to end with a cliffhanger.

It was a bit of a downer to me that such a strong season didn't end conclusively, and had to throw that curveball at us. Star Trek and nazi's, right? :lol
TOS used them, Voyager used them, Enterprise used them.....


Still waiting for Blob to tell us all what he *did* like about Into Darkness... :lol

I haven't forgotten, I've just been busy! I think my very first post when the movie came out covered most of it though, but I'll come up with something.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 06, 2013, 06:19:46 PM
Something that's always bugged me. Phlox's buddy Dr. Lucas might be the biggest asshole in the ST universe. He watches one of his colleagues die a horrible, painful death to withhold information he possess (which was the right thing to do). Then as soon as they line up somebody he actually gives a damn about, he folds almost immediately. If there's ever a time for "in for a dime/in for a dollar," that was it. What do you say to the dead guy's family? "He gave up his life to prevent unmitigated evil from falling into the wrong hands." Oh, so they didn't get the evil and we're all safe then. "Well, no, I gave it to them as soon as he stopped his writhing." WTF? It's bad enough that you give up the info, but to do it after you let someone die for it (to save the guy that would have been the first to sacrifice himself for the greater good, no less), you're really just shitting on pretty much everybody and everything.

What other despicable and reprehensible characters have there been?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 06, 2013, 07:38:30 PM
Well, I guess there was the Cardassian Dr. Mengele equivalent that The Doctor had to work with.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 06, 2013, 10:19:36 PM
Eh, he didn't really bother me too much, except that his excessively cheerful demeanor was a little creepy. I found the crappiness of the episode more offensive than the character.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 06, 2013, 10:26:19 PM
Yeah, with you on that on all counts. Nice idea for an  episode, but the execution and character development just didn't live up to it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 06, 2013, 11:04:58 PM
I don't think Kai Winn had a single redeeming quality. I think I'd have to put her into a top 10 list of reprehensible ST characters.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on November 07, 2013, 03:00:11 AM
I don't think Kai Winn had a single redeeming quality. I think I'd have to put her into a top 10 list of reprehensible ST characters.

I'd go further and put her atop that list. Nobody else comes to mind that I despised more in any of the series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 07, 2013, 06:47:13 AM
Yeah, I agree. What was great about her though was that she wasn't just a one-dimensional evil person. She did what she did because she felt she was being denied what she rightfully deserved.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 07, 2013, 07:56:19 AM
True enough. While being thoroughly dislikable, she was still one of ST's most interesting characters. There was a depth to here that even most of the main cast didn't seem to have. And the jealously, while present the entire time, was only a fraction of her flaw. For most of the series she still tried to do what was right for Bajor; just all the while completely misguided.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 07, 2013, 10:09:50 AM
Yeah. It was remarkable how they managed to make her absolutely despicable, and yet understandable. Dukat then smartly manipulating her was the nexus of awesome.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 07, 2013, 10:47:59 AM
The best "bad guys" are always the ones who are intelligent and have their own goals, which sometimes even align with our own.  That's so much better than one-dimensional "evil just because muah-ha-ha!" type villains.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 07, 2013, 11:35:30 AM
Caught my wife watching reruns of TNG on BBC America.  My work here is done.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 07, 2013, 11:41:55 AM
The best "bad guys" are always the ones who are intelligent and have their own goals, which sometimes even align with our own.  That's so much better than one-dimensional "evil just because muah-ha-ha!" type villains.
Which makes it ambiguous as to whether or not they're even a bad guy at all. Shran comes to mind.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 07, 2013, 11:43:36 AM
Every character Jeffrey Combs  does is gold.  I can never get enough of him in TV or film.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 07, 2013, 12:00:45 PM
I liked him in the Frighteners.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 07, 2013, 07:36:06 PM
Every character Jeffrey Combs  does is gold.  I can never get enough of him in TV or film.

He was such a standout. Apparently he was going to be made a regular in S5 of Enterprise, which would have been a huge boost to a pretty dull cast.
I saw him in that first, then saw him in DS9 as Brunt and Weyoun. He was great as Weyoun, apparently great enough to bring him back from the dead. :lol

And he was great in Transformers Prime as Ratchet too. He's the reason I started watching it. :blob:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 07, 2013, 08:09:04 PM
Yeah, Shran and the doctor were definitely the two best characters on Ent. I know that somewhere in season 4, probably related to that thing with the blind romulans, he loses his ship and remarks that once an Andorian loses a ship he commands it's pretty much game over for his career. That would have been the writers setting him up to become a regular the next season (although I'm not real sure how they would have played that).

As for Jeffrey Combs, I always found it difficult to separate ST characters from ST actors. Put another way, is it JC that made Shran a great character, or was it the writing? I suspect he has a great deal to do with the characterization, but at the same time Brunt never really amused me much. Anybody actually remember him as Tiron, Plenk or Krem? I guess I just never really think of it as "man, that Jeffrey Combs is awesome!", in as much as I think that Shran and Weyoun are awesome. I certainly give him credit for being a huge part of the reason for that, but it's still how I tend to see things.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 07, 2013, 08:26:15 PM
I suggest "Re-Animator" and "From Beyond".  These were the first 2 movies I saw him in.  My friend made a D&D game off of the movie From Beyond that we played. 

EB, it was his delivery of those lines that made him stand out in any Trek show.  Both my wife and I would always perk up when we knew he was involved in an episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 07, 2013, 08:39:41 PM
Yeah, Shran and the doctor were definitely the two best characters on Ent. I know that somewhere in season 4, probably related to that thing with the blind romulans, he loses his ship and remarks that once an Andorian loses a ship he commands it's pretty much game over for his career. That would have been the writers setting him up to become a regular the next season (although I'm not real sure how they would have played that).

As for Jeffrey Combs, I always found it difficult to separate ST characters from ST actors. Put another way, is it JC that made Shran a great character, or was it the writing? I suspect he has a great deal to do with the characterization, but at the same time Brunt never really amused me much. Anybody actually remember him as Tiron, Plenk or Krem? I guess I just never really think of it as "man, that Jeffrey Combs is awesome!", in as much as I think that Shran and Weyoun are awesome. I certainly give him credit for being a huge part of the reason for that, but it's still how I tend to see things.

It's a combination, but it also comes down to what character plays to the actor's strengths. Jeffrey Combs seems to play that kind of ambiguous bad guy role well, but Brunt (along with most Ferengi) was more of a gag bad guy character, and it's probably hard to act through those silly teeth anyway. And his other characters were mostly one offs that I remember, so I don't count those.
They kept giving him roles, so I think they saw the potential in him as an actor, rather than just an actor who got lucky with good characters.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 07, 2013, 11:49:10 PM
Watching "Qpid" right now. Man, Riker is big at that point. Him hitting on Vash doesn't really work that well because of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 15, 2013, 04:16:03 PM
Finally watched Star Trek: Into Darkness.  I liked it.

I grew up with original Star Trek, and in general didn't like the 2009 one because it was hard to accept the reworking of all the characters, and let's face it, the story itself was pretty bad.  But this is what Star Trek is now, so I guess I should get used to it.

Except that that didn't even occur to me until after I'd watched it.  I am used to it, already, and didn't even realize it.  I've always liked Karl Urban's McCoy; I think he does the best out of all of them at nailing the original character.  But this time around, Spock and even Kirk seemed much more like the original characters.  Either that, or I'm just getting used to them as the new characters.  Probably a bit of both.  But when Kirk was on the other side of the glass at the end, he really looked a lot like a young William Shatner.  A lot.

And before you say anything, I realize that that's not even required.  They don't have to be just like the originals; it just helps us old fogies adapt a little better.  So the Big Three were fine, and I guess I'm getting used to New Uhura, but I still think Chekov and Scotty are pretty bad.  I usually like Simon Pegg, but man, he's just not Scotty.  Sulu was pretty cool.  I still can't watch John Cho and not see Harold Lee, but Harold Lee as Sulu is still pretty good.

Were we not to supposed to know exactly what was happening when there was an Admiral Marcus and then a cute blond named Carol Notmarcus shows up?  Come on, give your audience a little credit.  Wait, she strips to her underwear for no apparent reason?  Okay, I guess I'll allow it.

So this is the "rebooted" Star Trek universe, and it just happens to have the same characters, even Khan (even though he's Notkhan) and a bunch of scenes where we have the same exact lines from the original movie, except spoken by someone else.  Interesting who ended up fixing the warp core and how it...

You know what?  I'm like the last person in the world to see this movie so I'm not saying anything new.  I just wanted to say that I liked it a lot more than I thought I would.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 15, 2013, 04:38:45 PM
At first I thought 2009 was a lot better but the more I watch Into Darkness - the more I prefer it and can easily watch it from start to end over and over whereas scenes from 2009 bore me now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 15, 2013, 05:22:23 PM
I actually bought ST:ID from Google Movies, just to try it out. What's funny is, the "representative" picture they chose of the movie is the half-naked Carol Marcus :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 15, 2013, 06:03:16 PM
Also, from what people were saying online, I expected literally no character development and all explosions and action.  I was pleasantly surprised at how much character development took place, how often they slowed things down and actually talked.

Lens flares everywhere, though.  I honestly wasn't looking for them, but holy shit they were everywhere.  There were scenes where I thought maybe something was wrong with my Blu-ray player or the disc, then I remembered J. J. Abrams.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 15, 2013, 06:48:40 PM
Also, from what people were saying online, I expected literally no character development and all explosions and action.  I was pleasantly surprised at how much character development took place, how often they slowed things down and actually talked.


Well there's your problem :p

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 15, 2013, 08:10:35 PM
Also, from what people were saying online, I expected literally no character development and all explosions and action.  I was pleasantly surprised at how much character development took place, how often they slowed things down and actually talked.
It was certainly an improvement over 2009. Still, there was a helluva lot of time spent on chase scenes, fight scenes, people blasting across space scenes. There were also plenty of plot and character elements they glossed over. I think this was a much better effort, but it still would have benefited greatly from knocking 10 minutes of gee-whiz special effects and devoting it the story. The other thing is that it's paced for all of that action. Yes, there was more dialog and story happening, but part of that was because it was all moving by so quickly.

Do modern movies always have to blast along so quickly?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 15, 2013, 08:38:41 PM
They definitely put more effort into character development in this one. They made it transparent from the opening scene that it was going to be a major plot point of the movie, and they did a pretty good job of it, although they couldn't develop it far enough for the TWOK rehash scenes to have any resonance for me. It worked much better the first time. ;)

I never really had any problems with the casting, and I think they did a great job there. I fully accept the main guys as these characters. Chekov, Sulu and Uhura don't work for me, although Uhura is at least a developed character. Kirk, Spock and Bones pretty much nail it though, and I actually really liked Scotty in Into Darkness too (whoa Kotowboy, do I actually like something about the new ST that you don't?? :biggrin: )

The movie had a lot of the groundwork there to far exceed ST:2009, but between the poor rehash, the ridiculous plot, and the miscast villian, it didn't come close imo.


There's also word that a new Trek series is possibly going ahead with Orci in charge, set in the new universe. If you got me to describe the absolute worst case scenario for Star Trek, that would be it. Lets get the guy who can't even write a coherent 2 hour scifi movie to be in charge of one of the longest running scifi franchises!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 15, 2013, 11:14:49 PM
Can I fart glitter too???
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 15, 2013, 11:46:35 PM

There's also word that a new Trek series is possibly going ahead with Orci in charge, set in the new universe. If you got me to describe the absolute worst case scenario for Star Trek, that would be it. Lets get the guy who can't even write a coherent 2 hour scifi movie to be in charge of one of the longest running scifi franchises!
I said right after 2009 that this cast would be excellent in a TV series. I'd love to see it. However, I was of the impression that none of them would go for it. Add to that, I agree that Orci being in charge would likely be a disaster.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 15, 2013, 11:58:40 PM

There's also word that a new Trek series is possibly going ahead with Orci in charge, set in the new universe. If you got me to describe the absolute worst case scenario for Star Trek, that would be it. Lets get the guy who can't even write a coherent 2 hour scifi movie to be in charge of one of the longest running scifi franchises!
I said right after 2009 that this cast would be excellent in a TV series. I'd love to see it. However, I was of the impression that none of them would go for it. Add to that, I agree that Orci being in charge would likely be a disaster.

I'd have no problem with this cast in a series either, although I'm not sure that would be the plan. I haven't seen any details on exactly what Orci was pitching.
But having him attached to this at all fill me with fear. The fact he continues to get employment is a testament to the stupidity of the average viewer.

Given how many potential new Trek series that CBS has shot down over the past few years, I'm praying this one doesn't go ahead either. I would honestly rather have no Trek on TV than have him run it further into the ground.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 16, 2013, 02:26:21 AM
I really don't want another Trek show. Plus whilst I thought that Scotty was *better* in Into Darkness - he was still nothing like Doohan's scotty at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 16, 2013, 04:18:24 AM
I would love another Trek show, but only if done right. I think they should at least wait until the new movies are done with (probably one or two more), and then they can focus on putting together a good series from scratch, and not just something to cash in on the new movies and that audience. I don't want JJ and co anywhere near a new series. Their concept of scifi is not what my concept of scifi is.

But it has been proven that Trek works a lot better on TV than on the big screen, as is the case with most scifi imo, so I really want a new series at some point.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 16, 2013, 04:24:25 AM
I really don't want another Trek show. Plus whilst I thought that Scotty was *better* in Into Darkness - he was still nothing like Doohan's scotty at all.

Really?  Best part of a TV series is an arch storyline.  Your nuts man! :lol  Bring a new series.  I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 16, 2013, 04:25:05 AM
Leave my nuts out of this!  :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 16, 2013, 04:25:44 AM
Call me crazy but I prefer waiting 3-4 years for a new movie than waiting 6 -12 months for a cliffhanger to be resolved...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 16, 2013, 04:30:11 AM
Leave my nuts out of this!  :hat

Damn Trekkie squirrels.


I remember how UPN (that's the TV station in America that was playing Enterprise F'ed the last 8 episodes but delaying and shifting the hours of the last episode that it pissed me off.  Now with the momentum of the new movies that should strike with a new TV show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 16, 2013, 04:41:37 AM
Call me crazy but I prefer waiting 3-4 years for a new movie than waiting 6 -12 months for a cliffhanger to be resolved...

You can't call yourself a scifi fan unless you love the cliffhangers!

Come on king, back me up on this one. :lol

I'm over the disappointment of waiting 3 or 4 years for something that's not very good, then realizing I have to wait another few years for the next attempt. You really can't fit much into a movie compared to a series. We've gotten about 4 hours of Trek in the past 4 years. Bleh.
And TV shows don't have boil everything down to the lowest common denominator to make as much money as possible as quickly as possible either. They can try something a bit more intelligent.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 16, 2013, 04:45:14 AM
These youngster and the need for gratification right away. (Blob you're (:-P) an old soul with movies and TV)  I absolutely love the cliffhanger leading into a whole new storyline and HATE when there is nothing leading into the new season.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 16, 2013, 04:51:48 AM
I LOVE the big scifi cliffhanger. That's what always makes the last episode of the season the best one to me (that plus they always save up their budget to go out with a bang).
Sure, I have to wait for it to be resolved, but I was always excited to see them throw everything out there and wonder how they were going to get out of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 16, 2013, 05:45:29 AM
Most pay off and some don't when they resolve it too fast but for the most part all cliffhangers are awesome.


Like Locutus of Borg.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 16, 2013, 07:31:05 AM
Blob is too busy to list all the things he enjoyed about STID.

Never too busy to put it down though ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 16, 2013, 07:58:03 AM
Blob is too busy to list all the things he enjoyed about STID.

Never too busy to put it down though ;)

To be fair, I actually mentioned something I did like as well as what I didn't like in that post.

But if you're that desperate for my approval of Into Darkness-
*The actors did a great job all around, and the characters were used better, and Scotty was utilized very well this time despite not even being on the Enterprise for the bulk of the movie. He was dedicated to the ship, and drank a lot. What more could you want? :lol
*They did a good job developing the Kirk/Spock friendship (although I don't think one movie was enough for the ending to work emotionally)
*The communicators were neat.
*The CG/effects looked great, especially at creating the look and feel of future Earth.
*There was a Doohan on the Enterprise again.

I'd have to watch it again to remember what else I liked. All I'm coming up with is things I hated. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 16, 2013, 08:40:18 AM
Can I fart glitter too???

I've seen people complain about this one, but it doesn't bother me at all. Warp drive has always been reasonably handwavy, and the warp drive leaving behind some kind of "condensation trail" is as good as any other visual effect.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 16, 2013, 09:32:44 AM
To me it was an updated version of the streaks of light from the first few movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 16, 2013, 10:01:45 AM
Can I fart glitter too???

I've seen people complain about this one, but it doesn't bother me at all. Warp drive has always been reasonably handwavy, and the warp drive leaving behind some kind of "condensation trail" is as good as any other visual effect.

Actually....I was just looking for an excuse to say, "fart glitter"...  :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 16, 2013, 10:54:52 AM
Most pay off and some don't when they resolve it too fast but for the most part all cliffhangers are awesome.


Like Locutus of Borg.
My experience with most of the TNG cliffhangers was that the first half was always great, and the second half was a huge letdown. This was the case with almost all of their 2 parters. I don't recall many cliffhangers with DS9.

The advantage of a tv show over the movies is that you have to come up with 24 stories a year. Yes, some of them will suck, but so do some of the movies. What you can't do is make every one of them a Summer blockbuster. Half of them have to be the actual sci-fi stories that some of us old farts still want to see. We're never going to see The Immunity Syndrome in movie form, because today's audiences would hate it. Inner Light? Never happen. When you have to crank out a whole bunch of one hour stories, you're pretty much forced to include these sorts of episodes. With the cast they have now, I'd love to see these done.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on November 16, 2013, 12:16:25 PM
Blob is too busy to list all the things he enjoyed about STID.

Never too busy to put it down though ;)

To be fair, I actually mentioned something I did like as well as what I didn't like in that post.

But if you're that desperate for my approval of Into Darkness-
*The actors did a great job all around, and the characters were used better, and Scotty was utilized very well this time despite not even being on the Enterprise for the bulk of the movie. He was dedicated to the ship, and drank a lot. What more could you want? :lol
*They did a good job developing the Kirk/Spock friendship (although I don't think one movie was enough for the ending to work emotionally)
*The communicators were neat.
*The CG/effects looked great, especially at creating the look and feel of future Earth.
*There was a Doohan on the Enterprise again.

I'd have to watch it again to remember what else I liked. All I'm coming up with is things I hated. :lol

While I don't agree with every aspect of your list, the bolded part is IMO the most significant failing of the movie.

https://www.agonybooth.com/movies/Star_Trek_Into_Darkness_2013_Detailed_Review.aspx
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 16, 2013, 12:31:47 PM
Blob is too busy to list all the things he enjoyed about STID.

Never too busy to put it down though ;)

To be fair, I actually mentioned something I did like as well as what I didn't like in that post.

But if you're that desperate for my approval of Into Darkness-
*The actors did a great job all around, and the characters were used better, and Scotty was utilized very well this time despite not even being on the Enterprise for the bulk of the movie. He was dedicated to the ship, and drank a lot. What more could you want? :lol
*They did a good job developing the Kirk/Spock friendship (although I don't think one movie was enough for the ending to work emotionally)
*The communicators were neat.
*The CG/effects looked great, especially at creating the look and feel of future Earth.
*There was a Doohan on the Enterprise again.

I'd have to watch it again to remember what else I liked. All I'm coming up with is things I hated. :lol

While I don't agree with every aspect of your list, the bolded part is IMO the most significant failing of the movie.

https://www.agonybooth.com/movies/Star_Trek_Into_Darkness_2013_Detailed_Review.aspx

I find that review to be utterly hilarious.   

I don't think most people realize just how HUGE "the nostalgia factor" influence can be.     We live in an era where things are held under a microscope.   NEVER IN CINEMA HISTORY has Sci-Fi been held up to "the burden of proof" as it is in the 21st Century.    Then...we look at the classics through rose tinted glasses, not even realizing that *IF* that same movie had been released today, it would be every bit as picked apart, dissected and criticized....possibly to an even greater degree.

I think it would be an interesting eye-opener to a lot of people if someone with good creative writing skills were to do a mock up (or...heck...not so 'mock up') negative review of Wrath of Khan.   Because I promise you...with the right outlook, critical eye and negative POV, you could do a write up very similar to this one for any of the classic ST movies.    WoK...TVH....
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 16, 2013, 02:50:48 PM
  Because I promise you...with the right outlook, critical eye and negative POV, you could do a write up very similar to this one for any of the classic ST movies.    WoK...TVH....

Been meaning to say this for a while now.


The trouble is - everyone online nowadays wants to be a critic and the everything leans towards negativity.

Most "reviews" on YouTube are why something is shit and not why it's great.

Someone has just done " Everything wrong with Back To The Future " video. Not only is it nearly 30 years late but most of the stuff is *extremely* nitpicky.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 16, 2013, 04:50:43 PM
^^^^^^^^^

Absolutely....   ST4 is considered by many MANY people to be in the top 3 all time best ST films.    And it is a fantastic film...I LOVE it.   But I could certainly find a ton of things wrong with it if I really wanted to.

(IB4 "WTF? Another time travel story?  Couldn't they come up with anything original???"   ::) )
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 16, 2013, 05:24:32 PM
Yeah I used to hear " haha Star Trek only does Time Travel movies " a lot :/


Even if we count the 12 movies we have now - time travel is a MAJOR plot point in Voyage Home, 2009  and First Contact.

I suppose you could include Generations as well but the nexus is more of a hub and don't see it as an out-and-out time travel story.

When you are in the Nexus - time does not exist and you can exit when/whereever you want so it's not " A Time Travel Story".

So even if you count Generations it's 4 out of 12. That makes 66% of Star Trek movies that have no time travel.

But time travel is kind of one of the staples of Sci Fi anyway. I'd be more surprised if a trek movie *never* used it.


- - - - - - - - - - -

I'd like one of those " Everything wrong with " videos to do Star Trek II : The Wrath Of Khan and see how it holds up to the scrutiny of someone who is only out to find fault with it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 16, 2013, 06:35:48 PM
IB4

Heh. B4.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 16, 2013, 06:37:57 PM
IB4

Heh. B4.

 :angel:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 16, 2013, 06:40:50 PM
Nemesis ! Jammin Dude's fave Star Trek film EVAR !!!  :angel: :angel:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 16, 2013, 07:31:50 PM
Nemesis ! Jammin Dude's fave Star Trek film EVAR !!!  :angel: :angel:

Oh dear god....    :hurl:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 16, 2013, 07:36:52 PM
I've never understood the point of that B4 character. Initially I thought it was a kinda hommage/copout in the vein of The Search For Spock. You got a body but no brain, and then Data uploads his mind into Bones, err, B4. But then at the end B4 is as retarded as ever.
Or was B4 singing Data's tune at the end supposed to mean he was slowly absorbing the new programming?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 16, 2013, 09:37:48 PM
I've never understood the point of that B4 character. Initially I thought it was a kinda hommage/copout in the vein of The Search For Spock. You got a body but no brain, and then Data uploads his mind into Bones, err, B4. But then at the end B4 is as retarded as ever.
Or was B4 singing Data's tune at the end supposed to mean he was slowly absorbing the new programming?

Yes, that's what was happening. We thought that he didn't take Data's programming, then at the end he recalls the song, showing that he's retaining at least something of Data, which will perhaps expand over time, but I guess still become his own character had they continued somehow.

I find that review to be utterly hilarious.   

I don't think most people realize just how HUGE "the nostalgia factor" influence can be.     We live in an era where things are held under a microscope.   NEVER IN CINEMA HISTORY has Sci-Fi been held up to "the burden of proof" as it is in the 21st Century.    Then...we look at the classics through rose tinted glasses, not even realizing that *IF* that same movie had been released today, it would be every bit as picked apart, dissected and criticized....possibly to an even greater degree.

I think it would be an interesting eye-opener to a lot of people if someone with good creative writing skills were to do a mock up (or...heck...not so 'mock up') negative review of Wrath of Khan.   Because I promise you...with the right outlook, critical eye and negative POV, you could do a write up very similar to this one for any of the classic ST movies.    WoK...TVH....

I actually only first saw the Star Trek movies very shortly before ST:2009 came out, and it still left me initially very disappointed. I think this is just trying to explain away negative response to the new movies, especially given that a lot of the criticisms have more to do with not being internally consistent and coherent stories, and not because the Enterprise doesn't have the correct speed stripe, or because Kirk's eyes are the wrong colour. And a lot of older fans did like the new movies anyway, so it's a silly generalization.

Both of the new movies failed miserably with the main antagonists of the movie, and even the basic plot points, which puts them on very bad footing to excuse their other faults.
If the overall movie succeeds and endures, then people are going to be more willing to excuse the minor nitpicks, and even consider them endearing mistakes that add character to the film. That's much harder when those errors affect the movie so adversely.
I've never seen anyone claim that these older movies are fault-free, or hate a new movie over trivial nitpicks. It really comes down to what the problems are, and in what way they affect the movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 18, 2013, 12:19:36 PM
Cracked pointed something out I hadn't considered this morning:

Quote
Later, Kirk goes and gets himself killed by radiation exposure while fixing the Enterprise's engines. All hope would seem to be lost, but Doctor McCoy, in a valiant attempt to discover the greatest deus ex machina in movie history, learns that Khan's genetically enhanced blood can cure death. Spock chases after Khan and rage pinches him into submission so he can bring his swarthy friend back from the great green booty palace in the sky.

What They Should Have Done:

Apparently the entire Enterprise crew forgot they had 72 other people with the exact same genetic enhancements as Khan just lounging in stasis on their own freaking ship. If Khan's blood could cure Kirk, so could any of theirs. There was no reason for them to risk waiting for Spock to capture Khan. We mean, yeah, it worked: They did manage to save Kirk with Khan's blood, but that's like waiting for the fire department to come put out your grease fire even though you're holding 72 fire extinguishers.

Read more: https://www.cracked.com/article_20659_5-clever-movie-schemes-you-didnt-realize-were-stupid.html#ixzz2l1hea099
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 12:23:12 PM
A deus Ex Machina is something that crops up magically at the end without being introduced previously. ( Matrix 3 )

Khan's blood is mentioned and used for the same purpose at least twice before the end of the film.

It's at the start of the film and again in the middle before finally being used at the end.

It's hardly a Deus Ex Machina.



Also Bob Orci has been asked this same thing a lot and his reply was that there was no way of knowing whether one of the other 72 Eugenics blood had the same properties. And would they wanna risk having TWO psychotic supermen on the loose ?


" Get me a cryo tube now - keep him in an induced coma. " - Bones was very clear about that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 12:27:23 PM
In other news - The Motion Picture was on last night and I actually thoroughly enjoyed it. Contrary to it's reputation I actually found it quite tense and exciting at times.

Also that Karl Urban is simply *perfect* at Bones. I highly doubt any other actor could have nailed him quite so well.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 18, 2013, 01:00:56 PM
Also, he has cute hair.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 01:01:44 PM
:lol...

I made this thing using speech on my iMac . https://soundcloud.com/davidoakes/2-1

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on November 18, 2013, 01:29:59 PM
Is that your voice?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 01:36:15 PM
:lol

No it's the voice of iMac speech or whatever I used. I wrote out the words though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on November 18, 2013, 01:56:28 PM
It was so English-y!   :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 01:57:09 PM
Yeah i loved the pronunciations so I had to record it 😌
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 18, 2013, 02:42:58 PM
A deus Ex Machina is something that crops up magically at the end without being introduced previously. ( Matrix 3 )

Khan's blood is mentioned and used for the same purpose at least twice before the end of the film.

It's at the start of the film and again in the middle before finally being used at the end.

It's hardly a Deus Ex Machina.



Also Bob Orci has been asked this same thing a lot and his reply was that there was no way of knowing whether one of the other 72 Eugenics blood had the same properties. And would they wanna risk having TWO psychotic supermen on the loose ?


" Get me a cryo tube now - keep him in an induced coma. " - Bones was very clear about that.

I'm not sure there is an official definition of deus ex machina, but whatever you want to call the plot element, it marred the movie. In fact, the fact that they set it up earlier in the movie made it really predictable, and when Kirk died, I really couldn't connect at all, because all I was waiting for was Bones to rush in and revive him. When Spock died in the original movies, he was dead for good, and I couldn't have guessed in my wildest dreams they would use the Genesis planet to bring back his body. So, I connected with his death.

Well, the fact that the new movie was redoing an existing scene in which the dying person returns later, didn't exactly help either. Once the scene started I was immediately wondering how they would bring Kirk back, and the Khan blood was in-your-face obvious.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 18, 2013, 09:07:35 PM
Cracked pointed something out I hadn't considered this morning:

Quote
Later, Kirk goes and gets himself killed by radiation exposure while fixing the Enterprise's engines. All hope would seem to be lost, but Doctor McCoy, in a valiant attempt to discover the greatest deus ex machina in movie history, learns that Khan's genetically enhanced blood can cure death. Spock chases after Khan and rage pinches him into submission so he can bring his swarthy friend back from the great green booty palace in the sky.

What They Should Have Done:

Apparently the entire Enterprise crew forgot they had 72 other people with the exact same genetic enhancements as Khan just lounging in stasis on their own freaking ship. If Khan's blood could cure Kirk, so could any of theirs. There was no reason for them to risk waiting for Spock to capture Khan. We mean, yeah, it worked: They did manage to save Kirk with Khan's blood, but that's like waiting for the fire department to come put out your grease fire even though you're holding 72 fire extinguishers.

Read more: https://www.cracked.com/article_20659_5-clever-movie-schemes-you-didnt-realize-were-stupid.html#ixzz2l1hea099

.......and that's another fail added to the list of plotholes in the movie.

And it's totally a deus ex machina. An off the cuff mention of it earlier in the movie didn't make it any less lazy or convenient. It's the kind of thing they make up at the end of writing the script as a magical solution to the story, then they just tack in a scene earlier in the movie so the average person thinks "oh but with my limited attention span I vaguely recall it being mentioned at some point in the movie, so that makes it clevah".
It otherwise had pretty much nothing to do with the rest of the movie, and made no sense to begin with, either with existing canon, or even with itself. This is the kind of thing that defies even the soft science fiction reality of Star Trek, and devolves into nothing but lazy fantasy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 09:33:14 PM
Off the cuff :lol

Blob has conveniently forgotten the ENTIRE hospital scene at the start of the movie where Khan cures that officer's girl so that he will in return blow up Section 31 - resulting in the conference of Star-fleet officers which kills Pike and allows Kirk to ask Marcus to go on a revenge mission.


Totally an off the cuff mention.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 18, 2013, 09:35:59 PM
Oh right there was also a scene where Khan is like "I can magically heal your kid if you become a terrorist".

Roberto Orci/Alex Kurtzman with another home run! Move over Citizen Kane.

Also he has magical blood that can simultaneously cure radiation poisoning and death. Seems legit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 09:40:57 PM
It doesn't matter what I say anyway.

Everything I say I like or particularly enjoyed about the last two films - you just go " THIS IS WHY YOU ARE WRONG. "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 18, 2013, 09:44:17 PM
It doesn't matter what I say anyway.

Everything I say I like or particularly enjoyed about the last two films - you just go " THIS IS WHY YOU ARE WRONG. "

If they knew how to write good scifi, we wouldn't have this problem! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 09:48:20 PM
I don't see how it's any worse than a Planet that brings people back to life created by a torpedo  designed to create an entire habitable planet

from a dead rock ( Search For Spock ).

or a Planet that cures all your ills and keeps you young ( Insurrection ).

or a Vulcan that can show you 3D real life projections of your secret pain and everyone else in the room can also see them.

* waits to find out how i'm wrong and those examples are completely different and acceptable *
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 18, 2013, 09:52:13 PM
I won't even bother arguing with you, but I will point out that it's probably no coincidence that those three Trek movies are not highly regarded by most fans at all. :lol

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 18, 2013, 09:52:33 PM
It doesn't matter what I say anyway.

Everything I say I like or particularly enjoyed about the last two films - you just go " THIS IS WHY YOU ARE WRONG. "
Truth be told, I only posted the link because I wanted to make you defend it.  :rollin

Honestly though, you are a bit defensive about it. And did you ever say that you particularly enjoyed the Khan's magic blood part? You have to recognize that there are some plot holes in the thing. Blob and I have both said there are plenty of things we like about the movie; it just wasn't what we wanted to see out of ST. You don't need to feel so ganged up on.

edit: and the Genesis planet didn't bother me. Spock wasn't brought back to life; he was reborn from his DNA. The rapid aging was a tad silly, though. The Insurrection Planet was typical sci-fi from any series. The Spock's brother thing was just plain stupid.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 18, 2013, 09:55:37 PM
It doesn't matter what I say anyway.

Everything I say I like or particularly enjoyed about the last two films - you just go " THIS IS WHY YOU ARE WRONG. "
Truth be told, I only posted the link because I wanted to make you defend it.  :rollin

Honestly though, you are a bit defensive about it. And did you ever say that you particularly enjoyed the Khan's magic blood part? You have to recognize that there are some plot holes in the thing. Blob and I have both said there are plenty of things we like about the movie; it just wasn't what we wanted to see out of ST. You don't need to feel so ganged up on.

edit: and the Genesis planet didn't bother me. Spock wasn't brought back to life; he was reborn from his DNA. The rapid aging was a tad silly, though. The Insurrection Planet was typical sci-fi from any series. The Spock's brother thing was just plain stupid.

Yep, it's not like anybody here is claiming TFF is a good movie, so I don't see the problem. :lol

As I said in an earlier post, it's not like we pretend the old movies were fault free either. Far from it. Some movies just have worse faults than others. And Into Darkness is the latest movie, so that gets the most discussion right now.

Ah Kotowboy. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 09:58:07 PM
It doesn't matter what I say anyway.

Everything I say I like or particularly enjoyed about the last two films - you just go " THIS IS WHY YOU ARE WRONG. "
Truth be told, I only posted the link because I wanted to make you defend it.  :rollin


Well I was just responding by mentioning the writers' official reason to that exact question.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 10:02:33 PM

Ah Kotowboy. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.

Futurama. " Where No Fan Has Gone Before. "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 18, 2013, 10:04:12 PM
Yep, it's not like anybody here is claiming TFF is a good movie, so I don't see the problem. :lol

As I said in an earlier post, it's not like we pretend the old movies were fault free either. Far from it. Some movies just have worse faults than others. And Into Darkness is the latest movie, so that gets the most discussion right now.

In fact, I'd definitely rank TFF far below ID. Not sure about 2009. Probably rank Insurrection above 09, but equal to ID. They're both entertaining at times, and silly at times. Something I'd put on to be amused but not take particularly seriously. TSfS definitely beats the two new ones, though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 18, 2013, 10:04:52 PM

Ah Kotowboy. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.

Futurama. " Where No Fan Has Gone Before. "

MORE LIKE EPISODE 9, BALANCE OF TERROR, LOSER! IN YOUR FACE! VICTORY IS MINE! HE HE!


Best tribute episode ever.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 10:05:47 PM
My Rankings :
TOS Movies : Khan, Country, Home, Motion, Search, Frontier

TNG Movies : Generations, Contact, Nemesis, Insurrection

JJ movies : Darkness, 2009.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 10:06:33 PM

Best tribute episode ever.

It is absolute genius. " All Power to the Engines " =  :rollin absolutely lost it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 18, 2013, 10:10:01 PM

Best tribute episode ever.

It is absolute genius. " All Power to the Engines " =  :rollin absolutely lost it.

Because of that episode, I've always referred to Riker as "front row Riker". When I watched all of TNG with my friend, I kept saying "YES! FRONT ROW!" every time Riker was happy about something. Pretty sure it annoyed the crap out of him. So stupid. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 10:11:25 PM
It doesn't even sound like Frakes when he says it for some reason.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 18, 2013, 10:12:35 PM
It doesn't even sound like Frakes when he says it for some reason.

Probably because he got all old and different sounding. :P
He is credited though, so I find it amusing that they got him for a one line cameo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 18, 2013, 10:13:31 PM
It doesn't even sound like Frakes when he says it for some reason.

Probably because he got all old and different sounding. :P
He is credited though, so I find it amusing that they got him for a one line cameo.

Maybe he just recorded it on a crappy old phone and emailed it in rather than in a proper studio.



In other news - I find it sad that Takei and Shatner have not publicly settled their differences so late in their lives.

If they've worked it out in private then awesome but i'd hate for either of them to leave us whilst still holding a grudge.

- Especially since the TNG cast all get along so famously in reality.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 19, 2013, 04:49:42 PM

Ah Kotowboy. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.

Futurama. " Where No Fan Has Gone Before. "

MORE LIKE EPISODE 9, BALANCE OF TERROR, LOSER! IN YOUR FACE! VICTORY IS MINE! HE HE!


Best tribute episode ever.

I love that episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 19, 2013, 04:54:24 PM
In other news - I find it sad that Takei and Shatner have not publicly settled their differences so late in their lives.

If they've worked it out in private then awesome but i'd hate for either of them to leave us whilst still holding a grudge.

- Especially since the TNG cast all get along so famously in reality.
Which is odd since Takei doesn't seem like the bitter type. I know Shatner and Nimoy seem to have settled their differences.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 19, 2013, 05:27:28 PM
I LOVE seeing the TNG cast all getting along and hanging out. It's so nice to see.

They're not like some bitter band who broke up because they hated each other and did reunion tours for the money and never see each other except for on stage.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 19, 2013, 05:44:36 PM
While they do all seem to get along great, Spiner certainly seems to have some issues with the whole ST thing. It's pretty clear he though the show was shit (and he was mostly correct) and he seems to have pretty little regard for all of the conventions. Also, it's pretty clear that he's closer to Stewart than the rest of them.

As for the TOS cast, Shatner seems to have made a real effort to make amends, and I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you that he really was a douche back then. Took Doohan's rapidly approaching death for him to forgive Shatner, and Takei seems to be similarly inclined.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on November 20, 2013, 12:11:03 AM
Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.

I'll go through DS9 and Voyager next.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 20, 2013, 08:13:34 AM
Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.
My condolences to you.

When I knew I was going to be laid up for a while I DL'ed a bunch of TNG. Went through and picked only episodes I recall as being interesting or episodes that I didn't remember but thought might be. Turned out to be 66 episodes that I could stomach re-watching. Of those about 15 wound up being ones where I'd get 5 minutes in and go "oh Christ, not this one!" and turn it off. Final percentage turned out to be about 28% that I deemed watchable. Even the ones that made the cut (and I've watched a few of them over the last week) still just come across as week and silly to me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 20, 2013, 08:15:10 AM
Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.
My condolences to you.

When I knew I was going to be laid up for a while I DL'ed a bunch of TNG. Went through and picked only episodes I recall as being interesting or episodes that I didn't remember but thought might be. Turned out to be 66 episodes that I could stomach re-watching. Of those about 15 wound up being ones where I'd get 5 minutes in and go "oh Christ, not this one!" and turn it off. Final percentage turned out to be about 28% that I deemed watchable. Even the ones that made the cut (and I've watched a few of them over the last week) still just come across as week and silly to me.

And yet you can defend TOS, where 90% of the episodes are downright laughable the whole way through. Go figure. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 20, 2013, 08:18:34 AM
TNG is the best series.


Doesn't even need "imo" after it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 20, 2013, 08:20:01 AM
See Kotowboy? We don't just single out JJ Trek. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 20, 2013, 08:21:04 AM
Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.
My condolences to you.

When I knew I was going to be laid up for a while I DL'ed a bunch of TNG. Went through and picked only episodes I recall as being interesting or episodes that I didn't remember but thought might be. Turned out to be 66 episodes that I could stomach re-watching. Of those about 15 wound up being ones where I'd get 5 minutes in and go "oh Christ, not this one!" and turn it off. Final percentage turned out to be about 28% that I deemed watchable. Even the ones that made the cut (and I've watched a few of them over the last week) still just come across as week and silly to me.

And yet you can defend TOS, where 90% of the episodes are downright laughable the whole way through. Go figure. :lol
Nope. Just went through the list (as percentage of watchable episodes is actually a pretty interesting way to look at it). I'd rate TOS as 50%. Some are good episodes. Some are just entertaining for a variety of reasons. DS9 is probably about 85-90%. Still plenty of dead weight in there. VOY is going to be around 66%. That's what I watched while recovering, and I skipped about 5 episodes per season (and hated some that I did watch). Surprisingly, ENT fared pretty well. I watched all of that during a busy stretch at the shop and only skipped over a handful. Interestingly, I blew off the last few episodes. The show just really fizzled towards the end.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 20, 2013, 08:23:24 AM
See Kotowboy? We don't just single out JJ Trek. :lol

TNG was the first series I actively watched so it's bound to be my favourite :)


I reckon that they should have marketed Star trek 5 as a comedy. It would probably have been more popular then :lol

The whole cast are definitely just playing it for laughs and trying to make the most of a poor script and small budget.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 20, 2013, 08:28:47 AM
I found out that " Jaws 3 " was originally going to be a parody called " Jaws 3 - People 0 ". but Universal didn't want to make a parody of their biggest hit.

Pretty ironic considering what they ended up with...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 20, 2013, 08:30:07 AM
Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.
My condolences to you.

When I knew I was going to be laid up for a while I DL'ed a bunch of TNG. Went through and picked only episodes I recall as being interesting or episodes that I didn't remember but thought might be. Turned out to be 66 episodes that I could stomach re-watching. Of those about 15 wound up being ones where I'd get 5 minutes in and go "oh Christ, not this one!" and turn it off. Final percentage turned out to be about 28% that I deemed watchable. Even the ones that made the cut (and I've watched a few of them over the last week) still just come across as week and silly to me.

And yet you can defend TOS, where 90% of the episodes are downright laughable the whole way through. Go figure. :lol
Nope. Just went through the list (as percentage of watchable episodes is actually a pretty interesting way to look at it). I'd rate TOS as 50%. Some are good episodes. Some are just entertaining for a variety of reasons. DS9 is probably about 85-90%. Still plenty of dead weight in there. VOY is going to be around 66%. That's what I watched while recovering, and I skipped about 5 episodes per season (and hated some that I did watch). Surprisingly, ENT fared pretty well. I watched all of that during a busy stretch at the shop and only skipped over a handful. Interestingly, I blew off the last few episodes. The show just really fizzled towards the end.

It really depends on how you define watchable. I do find most of TOS watchable and entertaining, just not in the way it intends to be. To me it's pure comedy, just as I enjoy MacGyver and CSI on the same level.
The percentage of episodes I'd consider actually good though, extremely low. A lot of them are redundantly formulaic anyway, and not necessary watching.

The problem with ENT is that it brought nothing new to the table at all until S3. Up until then, it was just stale and poorly recycled TNG/DS9/Voy plots, and without the strong cast to carry it. S3 was the only great season, but even that had some blatantly recycled plots. Most people seem to love S4, but I thought that was the worst. Unashamed fanwank, most of which was forcing the square peg into the round hole. That season demonstrated perfectly that Trek had painted themselves completely into a corner by that point.
Ironically, the best episodes of S4 were the Mirror universe where they were on the Defiant, because they almost showed some character. :lol Incidentally, it also technically didn't include a single character or moment in the prime universe! Possibly the only example of that in all of Trek?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 20, 2013, 08:31:28 AM
TNG was the first series I actively watched so it's bound to be my favourite :)

TNG was the first series I watched, after watching all of the TOS movies first, but I still much prefer DS9 and Voyager overall. TNG would be the middle of the pack for me, I suppose.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 20, 2013, 08:44:13 AM
It really depends on how you define watchable. I do find most of TOS watchable and entertaining, just not in the way it intends to be. To me it's pure comedy, just as I enjoy MacGyver and CSI on the same level.
The percentage of episodes I'd consider actually good though, extremely low. A lot of them are redundantly formulaic anyway, and not necessary watching.
I certainly feel similarly. Plenty of those episodes aren't great, but since I'm a fan of Kirk, Spock and even McCoy, I'm always down for watching them do their thing. Occasionally it's even just for one scene, but an episode that leads up to a big payoff is fine for me.

If TNG had even one character as good as them, I'd be cooler with it. The fact is that I just hate all of their boring, lifeless asses, so there's no interest in watching them in crappy stories. Most of what I did watch were Data-centric episodes, or ones with Borg, Q, Klingons or Romulans in them. Anybody but those smug, awful federation twits.

Quote
The problem with ENT is that it brought nothing new to the table at all until S3. Up until then, it was just stale and poorly recycled TNG/DS9/Voy plots, and without the strong cast to carry it. S3 was the only great season, but even that had some blatantly recycled plots. Most people seem to love S4, but I thought that was the worst. Unashamed fanwank, most of which was forcing the square peg into the round hole. That season demonstrated perfectly that Trek had painted themselves completely into a corner by that point.
Ironically, the best episodes of S4 were the Mirror universe where they were on the Defiant, because they almost showed some character. :lol Incidentally, it also technically didn't include a single character or moment in the prime universe! Possibly the only example of that in all of Trek?
I remember thinking at the time they should have just said fuckit and made a 5th season set entirely in the mirror universe. Unfortunately, even the mirror versions of the characters were pretty bad. While it was better than most of that season (and the opening credits were probably the single best thing the series ever did), it was really only redeemable for staring the hot, slutty Hoshi.

And for that matter, the one with the augments wasn't bad, although they should have knocked off the entire Sung aspect of it. Either do a pre-Data episode, or a pre-Khan episode. They overdid it with the fanwank there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 20, 2013, 09:05:53 AM
I certainly feel similarly. Plenty of those episodes aren't great, but since I'm a fan of Kirk, Spock and even McCoy, I'm always down for watching them do their thing. Occasionally it's even just for one scene, but an episode that leads up to a big payoff is fine for me.

If TNG had even one character as good as them, I'd be cooler with it. The fact is that I just hate all of their boring, lifeless asses, so there's no interest in watching them in crappy stories. Most of what I did watch were Data-centric episodes, or ones with Borg, Q, Klingons or Romulans in them. Anybody but those smug, awful federation twits.

I liked most of the characters on TNG, and you're actually the only person I've seen complain about them. I'd take Data over the backwards hillbilly screaming at Kirk about pushing good ol' fashioned US of A values onto every single civilization, while Spock tried to actually talk some reason into him.
That said, Spock is my favourite Trek character of all though, so I get it. And I do like that cast as much as any other series. Kirk is always fun to watch for being the rapiest man in the galaxy, Bones is an amusing old coot, Scotty is the lovable raging alcoholic, and the rest all had their moments. Definitely a fun cast, although not always in the right way.

I remember thinking at the time they should have just said fuckit and made a 5th season set entirely in the mirror universe. Unfortunately, even the mirror versions of the characters were pretty bad. While it was better than most of that season (and the opening credits were probably the single best thing the series ever did), it was really only redeemable for staring the hot, slutty Hoshi.

It's a shame they always focused more on the androgynous looking Vulcan instead of the cute asian chick. :tup Was never much into the beanpole pixie look.


And for that matter, the one with the augments wasn't bad, although they should have knocked off the entire Sung aspect of it. Either do a pre-Data episode, or a pre-Khan episode. They overdid it with the fanwank there.

Seriously! It was too much.
And I think the whole arc of explaining why the Klingons looked different was a load of crap too. It was something best left unsaid. I was perfectly content with just accepting that a 1960s TV show had limitations. That's one of those times where suspension of disbelief clearly applies. Just like I accept that the Enterprise is not supposed to look like a cheaply painted wooden set designed to push colour TV sets. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 20, 2013, 09:16:35 AM
It's a shame they always focused more on the androgynous looking Vulcan instead of the cute asian chick. :tup Was never much into the beanpole pixie look.
Yeah, but Malcom was right, she had a great ass. Don't dig the hair, but phenomenally well built young lady. And when it comes to fanwank, always finding a way to have her in her skivvies once per episode is pretty damned sporting of them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 20, 2013, 09:21:39 AM
It's a shame they always focused more on the androgynous looking Vulcan instead of the cute asian chick. :tup Was never much into the beanpole pixie look.
Yeah, but Malcom was right, she had a great ass. Don't dig the hair, but phenomenally well built young lady. And when it comes to fanwank, always finding a way to have her in her skivvies once per episode is pretty damned sporting of them.

She did look much better in S3/4 when she switched to the more stylish outfits, and they changed her wig to be more feminine. The steel wool potato sack she wore in S1/2 wasn't flattering at all though.

I'd still take Hoshi any day.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: yorost on November 20, 2013, 10:36:43 AM
TNG was the first series I actively watched so it's bound to be my favourite :)
TNG was the first series I watched, after watching all of the TOS movies first, but I still much prefer DS9 and Voyager overall.
This, and it's not even close.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on November 20, 2013, 01:18:14 PM
Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.
My condolences to you.

When I knew I was going to be laid up for a while I DL'ed a bunch of TNG. Went through and picked only episodes I recall as being interesting or episodes that I didn't remember but thought might be. Turned out to be 66 episodes that I could stomach re-watching. Of those about 15 wound up being ones where I'd get 5 minutes in and go "oh Christ, not this one!" and turn it off. Final percentage turned out to be about 28% that I deemed watchable. Even the ones that made the cut (and I've watched a few of them over the last week) still just come across as week and silly to me.

I've watched through TNG two times before, and there are some absolutely cringeworthy episodes, contrived plots, and forced and terrible overacting. This is especially the case in the first few seasons, but the further you go into the series, the smoother and more natural it gets. However, I take most episodes at face value as best as I can (oh, this is supposed to be a fun episode) and just enjoy what I'm watching. For the more serious episodes, TNG was able to explore situations and raise questions of which few other TV shows are capable. I'm finding more and more decisions that I don't agree with or would go about differently, and actions I would never even consider, especially now that I have a perspective from a military rank and command structure. Maybe I should just get my Nitpicker's Guide to TNG out, but I'm wholly enjoying the ride. I think TNG has some of the best character interaction of any show I've watched, which I believe contributes to the show's smoothening the further I get into it. Gosh I can ramble.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 20, 2013, 01:30:20 PM
TNG first series is really bad compared to what would come later. It's extremely 80's and you can tell Pat Stewart didn't want to be there.


Series 2 is like everyone went " let's not do that again " and actually put some effort in.

Series 5 is the absolute best series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 20, 2013, 01:37:04 PM
For the more serious episodes, TNG was able to explore situations and raise questions of which few other TV shows are capable
That's always been ST's greatest virtue. Any of the series can hit on fascinating ethical territory. TOS was pretty good at it, A Private Little War and The Apple come to mind. All the way down to ENT, where they cloned a guy only to kill him because they needed a spare body part, and mugged another ship for their warp coil because they just needed it more. TNG certainly had their fare share of ethical dilemmas , and some of them were pretty well done.

Quote
I think TNG has some of the best character interaction of any show I've watched, which I believe contributes to the show's smoothening the further I get into it.
This is a valid point. They all seemed to have a camaraderie that none of the other crews had. Even dull and boring Geordi could get along swimmingly with dull and boring Crusher. All of the rest of the crews pretty much paired off or formed cliques. Still, I just thought they were all lifeless and boring (which actually explains why any one of them could get along with any other one), so I don't have much interest in seeing them all get along. Some tension would have greatly improved that show.

And I'd say it got better as it went along, before they hit the most solid wall I've ever seen. They ran out of ideas going into seven and the whole thing just fell apart spectacularly. Seven might actually be worse than one, and one really sucked. "Well, what now? I don't know, have we done a Geordi's mom episode yet?"  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on November 20, 2013, 01:38:25 PM
TNG first series is really bad compared to what would come later. It's extremely 80's and you can tell Pat Stewart didn't want to be there.

Yup I definitely got that vibe from Sir Pat. It reminds me of the anecdote where he didn't unpack his suitcase for weeks because he was sure the show would fail.

I think one of TNG's first turning points is [spoiler]killing off Yar.[/spoiler] She was a terrible actress and her departure really let stronger characters step up. She was much better when she reappeared later in the series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on November 20, 2013, 01:40:16 PM
I think one of TNG's first turning points is [spoiler]killing off Yar.[/spoiler]

omg yes
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on November 20, 2013, 01:47:15 PM
This is a valid point. They all seemed to have a camaraderie that none of the other crews had. Even dull and boring Geordi could get along swimmingly with dull and boring Crusher. All of the rest of the crews pretty much paired off or formed cliques. Still, I just thought they were all lifeless and boring (which actually explains why any one of them could get along with any other one), so I don't have much interest in seeing them all get along. Some tension would have greatly improved that show.

And I'd say it got better as it went along, before they hit the most solid wall I've ever seen. They ran out of ideas going into seven and the whole thing just fell apart spectacularly. Seven might actually be worse than one, and one really sucked. "Well, what now? I don't know, have we done a Geordi's mom episode yet?"  :facepalm:

Yeah, a story arc would have brought some life into the characters. It somewhat developed in the later seasons, but it's my understanding they wanted to explore that with DS9 in a more static setting instead.

They definitely ran out of steam in the Seventh Season (...Sub Rosa? Masks?), so I reluctantly want to say they ended it at the right time - on a high note, rather than letting it slowly suffocate. They did begin to overdevelop characters in that season (Gerodi's mom, Crusher's ancestors, Troi's sister). I think it would have been cool to see even more interaction with their spinoff bretheren over at DS9.   
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 20, 2013, 01:50:33 PM
End of six would have been the time to quit. They were fresh out of ideas and the show had run it's course. I'd hardly say they went out on a high note. I'd call it more of a metallic, dull and off key thud.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on November 20, 2013, 01:58:20 PM
Perhaps, but I found All Good Things to be absolutely brilliant. It neatly tied the first episode to the last, gave a grand look over the beginning of 1701-D to a small glimpse of the future, and has Picard killing off humanity and then having to use lateral thinking to save it. For 7th season, I'd say its about 40:60 good to poor episodes... Alright, maybe closer to 3:7
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 20, 2013, 02:07:03 PM
All Good Things is great. It could have been a movie. It's certainly better than Insurrection !

Plus it's a fuck sight better than Voyager's limping piss weak half-assed cop-out finale.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 20, 2013, 02:22:54 PM
All Good Things was good, but it wasn't without it's flaws. Giving Crusher command of a ship? Gimme a break. Slapping a 3rd nacelle onto the Enterprise? What's the point? Worf and Riker turning into bitter old assholes? Well, that's actually pretty likely (but did ruin Riker, IMO). Data retiring to Cambridge? Totally out of character. Again, I think it was a very good episode and I particularly liked the Billy Pilgrim idea, but if you're going to blast Voyager's finale for such things, at least give AGT a similar look.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 20, 2013, 06:33:12 PM
https://www.fanboysanonymous.com/2013/09/star-trek-actors-combined-old-new.html#.Uo1ic5E5GGk


I assume everyone has already seen this ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on November 21, 2013, 02:36:23 AM
All Good Things was good, but it wasn't without it's flaws. Giving Crusher command of a ship? Gimme a break. Slapping a 3rd nacelle onto the Enterprise? What's the point? Worf and Riker turning into bitter old assholes? Well, that's actually pretty likely (but did ruin Riker, IMO). Data retiring to Cambridge? Totally out of character. Again, I think it was a very good episode and I particularly liked the Billy Pilgrim idea, but if you're going to blast Voyager's finale for such things, at least give AGT a similar look.

I'm actually OK with Data going to Cambridge. He was exploring his humanity for the entire series and him doing that doesn't seem so far fetched. And comparing AGT to the voyager final isn't very fair. Sure, AGT might have had it's flaws, but the voyager final was the opitome of disappointment.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 21, 2013, 03:04:28 AM
All Good Things was good, but it wasn't without it's flaws. Giving Crusher command of a ship? Gimme a break. Slapping a 3rd nacelle onto the Enterprise? What's the point? Worf and Riker turning into bitter old assholes? Well, that's actually pretty likely (but did ruin Riker, IMO). Data retiring to Cambridge? Totally out of character. Again, I think it was a very good episode and I particularly liked the Billy Pilgrim idea, but if you're going to blast Voyager's finale for such things, at least give AGT a similar look.

I'm actually OK with Data going to Cambridge. He was exploring his humanity for the entire series and him doing that doesn't seem so far fetched. And comparing AGT to the voyager final isn't very fair. Sure, AGT might have had it's flaws, but the voyager final was the opitome of disappointment.

No, the Enterprise finale was the epitome of disappointment. I heard everyone complain about it, and thought "how bad can it be?", but it was utter shit. The two parter before it was a good ending to the series though.

The Voyager finale left a lot to be desired in terms of actually showing the reactions and joy of getting home, instead only having it happen at the end of the episode, but aside from that it's not too bad an episode. It's biggest problem is what it didn't include, rather than what it did.

The DS9 finale however is the perfect example of how to end a series. They got the main dominion story arc done half way through, then were able to deal with every single individual character arc in a satisfying way.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on November 21, 2013, 03:30:24 AM
I've never seen the full series of ENT. It's the only series that I havn't watched all the way through. If it's worse than the Voyager final then it must be puke inducing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 21, 2013, 08:29:57 AM
I had no problem with VOY not showing their return to Earth. If you've only got a few minutes, often times it's better to let people use their own imaginations than to try and shoehorn in closure. In fact, I enjoyed the way they did it far more than if they'd shown some fireworks, a ceremony, and then the crew drinking a toast at the end. The problem was that they glossed over some of the return trip details (I'm still baffled as to how they got inside the Borg sphere). And, frankly anything having to do with the Borg Queen is shit.

Also, lets keep in mind that DS9's finale was essentially 3 episodes. the Dominion War was mostly wrapped up in the episode before, and the conclusion had been in progress well before that. Devoting an hour to wrapping up the personal aspects was easy for them to do. Beginning the conclusion of Voyager before the finale would have been next to impossible.

ENT: I couldn't even finish the 2-parter before the conclusion. It had just worn down on me by that point. The Trip/T'pol kiddo storyline was just awful. I do recall that the finale was pretty crappy, but I haven't rewatched it so I'm not sure of how bad it was. I can think of plenty of good ways to have finished the season, though. Maybe the could have all gotten stuck in the mirror universe and had to fend for themselves. They could have pulled a Soap, and wrapped up season 4 with everybody fixing to die some horrible death, and never wrapped it up (that would have been awesome, with everybody complaining about how bad the show sucked having to now complain about how they never finished it  :lol).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on November 21, 2013, 08:40:18 AM
All Good Things was good, but it wasn't without it's flaws. Giving Crusher command of a ship? Gimme a break. Slapping a 3rd nacelle onto the Enterprise? What's the point? Worf and Riker turning into bitter old assholes? Well, that's actually pretty likely (but did ruin Riker, IMO). Data retiring to Cambridge? Totally out of character. Again, I think it was a very good episode and I particularly liked the Billy Pilgrim idea, but if you're going to blast Voyager's finale for such things, at least give AGT a similar look.

I'm willing to overlook flaws for that specific episode; they're all rather trivial. I think most of the crew ended up in a very believable place. I can kind of see the logic behind giving Crusher a medical ship, but in reality it would be a long shot. I guess the closest example is how in the Navy (of which the rank structure in TNG is based), there are restricted and unrestricted officers. Restricted officers, such as supply, medical, dental, and civil engineers, are unable to take command of a ship; while unrestricted, such as aviators, surface warfare officers, SEALs, etc, can.

I remember I did watch ENT's finale just because everyone talked about it so much. It seemed like a decent premise, but ended up feeling entirely too forced.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 22, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
So I'm curious what people's favorite TOS episodes are. Aside from the obvious ones, everybody like CotEoF and Balance of Terror, but what other ones do the people who by and large dislike TOS actually enjoy watching? I'm watching Corbomite Maneuver right now, and it's always been one of my favorites. It also has the added advantage of benefiting more than most from the remastering.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 22, 2013, 06:02:11 PM
Personally...I've always had a fondness for the one with the flying fake novelty vomit...

Also...the one with the really fakey lava monster. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 22, 2013, 06:05:29 PM
No idea if you actually like those or are just being a smartass (I always hated those two, myself), but if you're referring to the Horta, it had nothing to do with lava. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 22, 2013, 06:13:20 PM
Honestly it's my nostalgia for those episodes....maybe just a bit of "smart ass" thrown in because the grown up me now recognizes how hokey those effects are.

But when I was 6 years old, those flying things scared the living crap out of me.   I honestly thought several of them would attack me as soon as I went into my room. 

I guess I kindof chuckle about them now...but it just makes me remember when I saw them for the first time through a child's eyes, and didn't see the hokey effects or the questionable stories.   I was just enamored by the spectacle of it.    A six year old kid staring like a wide eyed, unblinking zombie into the world of imagination...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 22, 2013, 06:24:04 PM
I wouldn't say they scared the hell out of me, but they certainly creeped me out bigtime. Pretty sure that's why I hate the episode so much now. Same deal with the Lights of Zetar; hated it as a kid, hate it now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on November 22, 2013, 06:43:17 PM
I guess I know why it comes across the way it did.   I *DO* love just about every episode of TOS...but it's because it takes me someplace in my mind.    When I watch TOS, I completely alter my viewpoint.   I almost "regress" to the imagination I once had.   I'm not nitpicking story lines any more, or focusing quite so intently on SFX.

Whenever I watch TOS...no matter what episode it is...it makes me feel like building a blanket fort in my living room. 

I just mentioned those episodes, because those are some of the first episodes I ever remember watching. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 22, 2013, 09:18:28 PM
So I'm curious what people's favorite TOS episodes are. Aside from the obvious ones, everybody like CotEoF and Balance of Terror, but what other ones do the people who by and large dislike TOS actually enjoy watching? I'm watching Corbomite Maneuver right now, and it's always been one of my favorites. It also has the added advantage of benefiting more than most from the remastering.

Well City on the Edge of Forever would be my first choice by far, so that's no fair. :lol
A great Kirk/Spock episode, and the only one of their time travel episodes that didn't feel like an excuse to raid the costume department. Probably Trek's best time travel episode too, and every series had at least one (usually a double episode too).

In fact, all of my top TOS picks would be the obvious ones. Trouble With Tribbles, Space Seed, Amok Time etc. Aside from that, I rank most of the rest fairly equally.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 22, 2013, 09:59:35 PM
Hot damn.  There are too many to pick.  I need to think about this.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 22, 2013, 10:03:08 PM
A great Kirk/Spock episode, and the only one of their time travel episodes that didn't feel like an excuse to raid the costume department.
Tomorrow is Yesterday wasn't an excuse to be cheap, and was actually an interesting idea (mainly because it was the first time it was done).

Looking at a list, it seems that every series had a couple of good ones (took TNG until the final episode  :lol) and a lot of crappy ones. Two of DS9's best episodes were time travel episodes, and VOY had plenty, several of which were respectable. I also enjoyed the episode with T'pol's ancestor getting stuck on Earth for a few months.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 22, 2013, 10:06:17 PM
When I first got my DVR it was at the beginning of summer and pike TV was replaying DS9 and I got to record every episode.  My favorite series and I need to re-watch it again.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 22, 2013, 10:26:49 PM
A great Kirk/Spock episode, and the only one of their time travel episodes that didn't feel like an excuse to raid the costume department.
Tomorrow is Yesterday wasn't an excuse to be cheap, and was actually an interesting idea (mainly because it was the first time it was done).

Looking at a list, it seems that every series had a couple of good ones (took TNG until the final episode  :lol) and a lot of crappy ones. Two of DS9's best episodes were time travel episodes, and VOY had plenty, several of which were respectable. I also enjoyed the episode with T'pol's ancestor getting stuck on Earth for a few months.

Meh, Tomorrow is Yesterday was a fairly throwaway one. Not bad, but nothing special. The City on the Edge of Forever was the time travel episode of TOS, and one of my most rewatched episodes.

I'm trying to remember what else DS9 had. There was Past Tense, which was ok, but nowhere near their best. If we're counting Children of Time, that was a great one. A few other fuzzy area ones that I'm not sure count as time travel episodes. There's the one where O'Brien's kid is sent back in time, and they get her back older. That was a touching episode, if it counts.

Actually, Voyager had some great ones now that I think about it. Before And After was perhaps the best episode of the first 3 seasons, similarly with Future's End (and it opened up the Doctor, so huge points for it there), and Year of Hell was one of the best episodes of all. Endgame was ok, although not one of the better episodes.

And I'd forgotten about Carbon Creek too. That was a good ENT episode. There was also Carpenter Street, which was one of their most enjoyable episodes, copying the same Spock/Kirk dynamic of TCOTEOF (not as successfully, but still admirably).
They had a lot of other bits of time travel mixed in, a lot of which were kind of forced and unnecessary. While Storm Front wasn't terrible, they didn't need to finish off such a good season with such a random cliffhanger, nor did we need yet another Trek Nazi episode. :lol And the aliens were pretty damn cheesy.
Oh, and there was E2. That was a pretty good one too, although another case of borrowing ideas from other Trek, with the idea of meeting your own descendants.

So much time travel, so little time. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 22, 2013, 11:00:39 PM
For some reason Year of Hell isn't considered a time travel episode. I suppose if you think about it they never left their own time. The universe just changed around them, and reverted after the initial cause was undone. And while we're on the subject, why was it that for all of Anorax's knowledge about temporal mechanics he couldn't foresee that just removing the stupid time ship from the timeline would undo what he initially fucked up? Dumbass.

Regardless, both of the VOY episodes you named were the winners, I think.

The DS9 episodes I was referring to are Visitor and Trials and Tribbilations. None of the other time travel episodes really sat well with me.

Carbon Creek was really the only time travel episode I liked in ENT. I suppose Carpenter Street was alright, but really it'd been done so many times by then that it just didn't do a whole lot for me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 22, 2013, 11:10:42 PM
For some reason Year of Hell isn't considered a time travel episode. I suppose if you think about it they never left their own time. The universe just changed around them, and reverted after the initial cause was undone. And while we're on the subject, why was it that for all of Anorax's knowledge about temporal mechanics he couldn't foresee that just removing the stupid time ship from the timeline would undo what he initially fucked up? Dumbass.

It might have been some kind of paradox to work out or something, or wasn't sure it would work. Or maybe he didn't want to die. The time travel is kind of sketchy in that one, so I try not to overthink it. I do consider it a time travel episode though. It covers a whole year, then resets back to the start. Good enough for me.
But as I said, there is some grey area as far as time travel goes. It's all relative. :neverusethis:

The DS9 episodes I was referring to are Visitor and Trials and Tribbilations. None of the other time travel episodes really sat well with me.

Oh right, The Visitor. :facepalm: Great episode too, that one.  Gotta love Tony Todd.

Carbon Creek was really the only time travel episode I liked in ENT. I suppose Carpenter Street was alright, but really it'd been done so many times by then that it just didn't do a whole lot for me.

Much like the majority of ENT, it wasn't particular fresh, and TOS had done the same dynamic better, but I still found it to be an entertaining episode overall, even once you took that aspect away.
But I love time travel concepts in general, so I probably tend to rate them a bit higher because of that, even when it's the same kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 22, 2013, 11:32:04 PM
Year of Hell is considered an alternate timeline episode. Those are a separate category from time travel episodes. Interestingly CotEoF is actually both. Aside from the obvious time travel, there are alternate timelines at the beginning (no Enterprise because the Nazis won WWII) and at the end (McCoy doesn't OD all over the bridge).

I suppose Year of Hell is also considered what they call a bad dream episode, in that the plot resolution prevented the main part of the story from occurring.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 23, 2013, 12:04:31 AM
I don't care about whatever over-categorizing whatever site wants to group them as. It's time travel-y. They get to hit the reset button at the end. I count it. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on November 23, 2013, 11:35:47 AM
https://www.theverge.com/2013/11/23/5135330/chekov-returns-in-this-trailer-for-fan-project-star-trek-renegades

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 23, 2013, 01:14:26 PM
I've seen that before and it looks really bad. Not even as good as Star Trek Continues.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 23, 2013, 09:51:47 PM
I saw that a day or two ago. It actually looks ever so slightly better than I expected. It still looks fanwanky to cram in as many people as had nothing better to do though. Chekov shouldn't be alive. At all.

I'm interested in seeing it though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on November 24, 2013, 12:47:17 AM
I don't really have high expectations from something like that. So, if it turns out to be good then I get a pleasant surprise. If it turns out to be shit then that's all that I expected all along. Kudos to those who have the sack to atleast attempt something like this in the first place, though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 24, 2013, 12:48:59 AM
I tried watching Of Gods and Men a while back, and had to just stop because it was so awful, so that's where I set the bar of expectation for this one. It probably couldn't be worse, but I don't have high hopes, so I can't be disappointed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 24, 2013, 04:00:26 AM
I figured i'd be reply 666 :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 24, 2013, 07:17:52 PM
A nice thing I noticed in Star Trek VI ...

In Into Darkness - Bones says to jim - " Are we firing Torpedos at the Klingons ? "

and in Star trek VI - just after Kronos I is hit - Bones comes on to the bridge and says : " are we firing torpedos ? " [ at the klingons ]

Also - the scene from TMP where Spock is in sick bay after mind melding with V'Ger is pretty much the Into Darkness Sick bay scene reversed.




Thirdly - petition for new thread :

Star Trek : The United Thread-eration Of Planets :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Vivace on November 24, 2013, 08:10:16 PM
Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.
My condolences to you.

When I knew I was going to be laid up for a while I DL'ed a bunch of TNG. Went through and picked only episodes I recall as being interesting or episodes that I didn't remember but thought might be. Turned out to be 66 episodes that I could stomach re-watching. Of those about 15 wound up being ones where I'd get 5 minutes in and go "oh Christ, not this one!" and turn it off. Final percentage turned out to be about 28% that I deemed watchable. Even the ones that made the cut (and I've watched a few of them over the last week) still just come across as week and silly to me.

And yet you can defend TOS, where 90% of the episodes are downright laughable the whole way through. Go figure. :lol
Nope. Just went through the list (as percentage of watchable episodes is actually a pretty interesting way to look at it). I'd rate TOS as 50%. Some are good episodes. Some are just entertaining for a variety of reasons. DS9 is probably about 85-90%. Still plenty of dead weight in there. VOY is going to be around 66%. That's what I watched while recovering, and I skipped about 5 episodes per season (and hated some that I did watch). Surprisingly, ENT fared pretty well. I watched all of that during a busy stretch at the shop and only skipped over a handful. Interestingly, I blew off the last few episodes. The show just really fizzled towards the end.

i have yet to watch a Voyager episode I have liked. That show is just down right laughable. They should have fired everyone except the Doctor and just made a show around him. He's probably the only thing likable on that show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 24, 2013, 08:39:14 PM
A nice thing I noticed in Star Trek VI ...

In Into Darkness - Bones says to jim - " Are we firing Torpedos at the Klingons ? "

and in Star trek VI - just after Kronos I is hit - Bones comes on to the bridge and says : " are we firing torpedos ? " [ at the klingons ]

Also - the scene from TMP where Spock is in sick bay after mind melding with V'Ger is pretty much the Into Darkness Sick bay scene reversed.

Those are both good catches, a bit more obscure than the more obvious parallels between Into Darkness and The Wrath of Khan.

J. J. Abrams' justification for all this is that even though the Star Trek universe has been rebooted, there are certain certain events which will tend to occur, and persons whose paths will always cross (Khan and Kirk), though sometimes in somewhat different circumstances.  I thought that that was kinda lame, but in a way, also kinda cool.  Almost deep, or something.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 24, 2013, 08:41:36 PM
A nice thing I noticed in Star Trek VI ...

In Into Darkness - Bones says to jim - " Are we firing Torpedos at the Klingons ? "

and in Star trek VI - just after Kronos I is hit - Bones comes on to the bridge and says : " are we firing torpedos ? " [ at the klingons ]

Also - the scene from TMP where Spock is in sick bay after mind melding with V'Ger is pretty much the Into Darkness Sick bay scene reversed.

Those are both good catches, a bit more obscure than the more obvious parallels between Into Darkness and The Wrath of Khan.

J. J. Abrams' justification for all this is that even though the Star Trek universe has been rebooted, there are certain certain events which will tend to occur, and persons whose paths will always cross (Khan and Kirk), though sometimes in somewhat different circumstances.  I thought that that was kinda lame, but in a way, also kinda cool.  Almost deep, or something.

It seems like a catchall way of saying "even though it's a reboot, we're going to just copy the old stuff anyway, because none of our target audience has actually seen any Trek".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 24, 2013, 08:47:36 PM
Yeah, it is, which is the lame part.  But the idea that certain events will tend to occur and certain paths will always cross, even if other circumstances are different, is also a time-honored sci-fi concept.  Something like the opposite of The Butterfly Effect, which says that if even the slightest thing changes, then everything in the whole damned universe changes.  I actually kinda like the idea that there are certain things that will happen anyway, even if the Planet Vulcan is blown up and Scotty looks and acts completely different.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 24, 2013, 09:06:16 PM
Yeah, it is, which is the lame part.  But the idea that certain events will tend to occur and certain paths will always cross, even if other circumstances are different, is also a time-honored sci-fi concept.  Something like the opposite of The Butterfly Effect, which says that if even the slightest thing changes, then everything in the whole damned universe changes.  I actually kinda like the idea that there are certain things that will happen anyway, even if the Planet Vulcan is blown up and Scotty looks and acts completely different.

To me that feels too unrealistic at times though.
If it's something distant unaffected by the timeline change that is likely to be the same (such as Khan floating in space in a space fridge and being a crazy madman, and NOT RANDOMLY BECOMING BRITISH WTF JJ I HATE YOU), I'm actually all for it, but when you have copied scenes (such as Kirk's death), it just feels like uninspired rehash disguised as fan service, not some clever or well thought out science fiction concept.

I think the further this timeline gets from Star Trek 2009, the more it should naturally diverge due to the butterly effect, at least as far as Starfleet/the Federation/the crew are concerned. The changes have just been too major.
If they happen to come across a situation from TOS that is still the same, I'd have no problem with that, as long as the changes to the crew result in a naturally different reaction and ultimately an entirely new story.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 25, 2013, 07:00:12 AM
I see Cumber-Khan as a result of Admiral Marcus disguising him so he could work for Section 31. Voice and everything.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 25, 2013, 07:02:24 AM
Yeah, it is, which is the lame part.  But the idea that certain events will tend to occur and certain paths will always cross, even if other circumstances are different, is also a time-honored sci-fi concept. 

Like in Back To The Future - Marty goes back to 1985 at the end and he still lives in the same house and is the same age etc - even though the entire week in 1955 would have changed a load of things going forward.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 25, 2013, 07:08:05 AM
I see Cumber-Khan as a result of Admiral Marcus disguising him so he could work for Section 31. Voice and everything.


It's pretty cool that you get to invent your own backstory so that the movie holds together, instead of them actually stopping for a moment to explain that pesky plot thing. :biggrin:
They could have at least had some lead up comics like STXI needed to explain all of the stuff they left out of the movie.


Yeah, it is, which is the lame part.  But the idea that certain events will tend to occur and certain paths will always cross, even if other circumstances are different, is also a time-honored sci-fi concept. 

Like in Back To The Future - Marty goes back to 1985 at the end and he still lives in the same house and is the same age etc - even though the entire week in 1955 would have changed a load of things going forward.

Same house, same kids etc. In reality even the slightest change in circumstances would have resulted in entirely different kids, if they even had the same number at all. And they were rich, but living in the same house. What the what?

But I digress. We actually do have a BTTF thread to discuss those plotholes! :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 25, 2013, 07:25:15 AM

They could have at least had some lead up comics like STXI needed to explain all of the stuff they left out of the movie.


...they do ?

I'm not just "making stuff up " as you put it to ignore the errors as you see them. I obviously read a lot of interviews with cast and crew - around the time the movie was due - I was reading everything I could find.

Including Q&A with the writers - where they answered all sorts of queries - such as Admiral Marcus spent most of this new timeline in London which is why Carol sounds like she does etc...And yes - why Khan is so different. And why they didn't just use one of the other 72 frozen eugenics instead of chasing down Khan etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 25, 2013, 07:34:56 AM

They could have at least had some lead up comics like STXI needed to explain all of the stuff they left out of the movie.


...they do ?

I'm not just "making stuff up " as you put it to ignore the errors as you see them. I obviously read a lot of interviews with cast and crew - around the time the movie was due - I was reading everything I could find.

Including Q&A with the writers - where they answered all sorts of queries - such as Admiral Marcus spent most of this new timeline in London which is why Carol sounds like she does etc...And yes - why Khan is so different. And why they didn't just use one of the other 72 frozen eugenics instead of chasing down Khan etc.

So all of the things that should actually be in the movie. It just baffles me that they can't make a successful self contained movie plot that doesn't rely on fishing around for explanations from other sources, and in some cases making up excuses after the fact to cover themselves. They favour mindless action over plot every time.

I hope JJ's involvement on the next one is in name only.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on November 25, 2013, 08:05:09 AM
While I was too annoyed at the British accent thing (same thing with Carol Marcus, who even has an American-accent father, wtf), I think every Trekkie lost the privilege to bitch about accents ever since a whole series revolved around a French guy with a thick British accent.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 25, 2013, 08:12:53 AM
While I was too annoyed at the British accent thing (same thing with Carol Marcus, who even has an American-accent father, wtf), I think every Trekkie lost the privilege to bitch about accents ever since a whole series revolved around a French guy with a thick British accent.

I really don't know what they were thinking casting the most proper British man possible as a Frenchman. :lol
In the future, I would actually expect accents to weaken and become a bit more universal and broad, but a well defined British accent in France? No explanation for that one. :lol It's possible there was a British connection in there, given how quickly they can travel around the world in the future, but it just didn't make sense to go with that backstory, because it didn't fit.

But at least he wasn't an established character being redone apparently in name only.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 02, 2013, 10:46:07 AM
Caught most of Star Trek 2009 on TV over the weekend.  I must've been bored.  What was interesting is that I kinda liked it this time.  The first time, it did not thrill me.  Too different, too spiffy and shiny and kaboomy for my taste.  But I kinda liked Into Darkness, maybe because I'm more used to the new versions of the characters and stuff.  And this in turn enabled me to enjoy Star Trek 2009 more, because I'm more used to the new versions of the characters and stuff.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm starting to get more used to the new versions of the characters and stuff.  This is what we have now, might as well enjoy it, right?

But holy crap, the lens flares.  The first time, I honestly didn't notice them; apparently I was more focused on other things.  But it was one of the things a lot of people talked about, and now that I'm aware of them, they really are everywhere,  including a number of places where they just plain didn't make sense.  Some scene on the bridge, and in the background there's a com panel with a blue indicator light of some kind.  It causes a blue line across the entire screen which is way more than a little blue light should make.  A scene in the cargo bay and there's Kirk and you can barely see him because of all the flare from... what?  It's a cargo bay; there's barely any lighting in there in the first place.  It really is grossly overdone and downright stupid.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 02, 2013, 11:24:18 AM
Something I noticed last night is that for all of the tail Kirk gets throughout the series, Spock gets the hotter women. All of Kirk's babes are blonde bimbos who are usually trying to steel his ship but are too insipid to get very far. Occasionally they're really hot, but often times they're pretty average. The women Spock gets with are usually pretty smart, down to Earth, and quite attractive.

All that said, Kirk still had the all-time winner:
(https://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110417182640/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/3/39/Andrea.jpg/292px-Andrea.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 02, 2013, 11:50:41 AM
Sherry Jackson as Andrea.  No argument here.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 02, 2013, 04:14:35 PM
Yeah, she was damn hot. I also always had a weak spot for this one (All our yesterdays)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVNjAH4bjwQRW0V4j5SyX2iVv6W9CBrwpPddQa7auBREN01Hlj)

And the yeoman from The Cage. She was really cute.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 02, 2013, 04:36:01 PM
Mariette Hartley (Zarabeth) was really cute when she was younger.  I remember being particularly impressed when they went into the cave and she took off that fur coat.

(https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxt0wl6qxQ1qdep0so1_500.jpg)

So was Spock.  Didn't he end up falling in love with her or something?

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/trektv/trektv/ttv_78/trek_tv_78.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 02, 2013, 05:00:46 PM
Yes, since he was back in time to a point that predated Vulcan logic (or some shit). And she was definitely one I had in mind, along with Jill Ireland. Spock had good taste (or fortune).
(https://homevideos.com/startreks/photos-star-trek/jill-ireland-sideparadise-4.jpg)

Other notable chicks that were into Spock were Droxine and the unnamed Romulan Commander.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on December 02, 2013, 07:30:10 PM
Star Trek movie marathon playing this past Thanksgiving weekend.

First Contact: why the heck didn't they just phaser that ball that ejected from the Borg cube instead of "following it"? It was like right next to them in interstellar terms.

Also, why did they have to go through that whole ruse of Data pretending to blow up Cochrane's ship before he made his move? For that matter he could have done it  at any time before Picard gets there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 02, 2013, 07:44:36 PM
Had my own mini-marathon over here, and FC was included. Figuring out all of the stuff that didn't make sense would be a full time job. Why were the Enterprise's shields down allowing the Borg to beam over in the first place? Why did nobody discuss separating the hull when the Borg were moving out of engineering? All kinds of stuff. The one thing that did make sense was Data's ruse, though. I noticed the other day that he was pretty furtive when moving over to the coolant tanks (and why would you have giant, breakable tanks of flesh burning acid right out in the open, at ground level). It was clear that the Borg didn't entirely trust him and he needed some sort of distraction to get to the tanks.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on December 02, 2013, 07:51:37 PM
One thing that struck me about watching the TOS movies - the pace and tone of the dialogue compared to the new movies. It is relaxed and natural, not DELIVERED.WITH.SO.MUCH.INTENSITY.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 02, 2013, 07:52:23 PM
I'm pretty sure Enterprise E's saucer doesn't detach from the hull like 1701-D's did.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 02, 2013, 07:53:00 PM
One thing that struck me about watching the TOS movies - the pace and tone of the dialogue compared to the new movies. It is relaxed and natural, not DELIVERED.WITH.SO.MUCH.INTENSITY.

Shatner doesn't speak like that AT ALL mister :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 02, 2013, 08:09:21 PM
I'm pretty sure Enterprise E's saucer doesn't detach from the hull like 1701-D's did.
Says who? All the other ones could. Kirk referred to it several times. The Excelsior class Enterprise had a battle bridge, suggesting the ability. The Enterprise C blueprints suggest it's an option. Obviously Picard's luxury liner could. Seems unlikely that they'd just suddenly abandon a useful feature.

One thing that struck me about watching the TOS movies - the pace and tone of the dialogue compared to the new movies. It is relaxed and natural, not DELIVERED.WITH.SO.MUCH.INTENSITY.
Made for a different audience. Back then seeing stories unfold and characters interact was the whole point of a film. Now it's just a means to connect all of the explosions and fight scenes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 02, 2013, 08:15:06 PM
Something I noticed last night is that for all of the tail Kirk gets throughout the series, Spock gets the hotter women. All of Kirk's babes are blonde bimbos who are usually trying to steel his ship but are too insipid to get very far. Occasionally they're really hot, but often times they're pretty average. The women Spock gets with are usually pretty smart, down to Earth, and quite attractive.

All that said, Kirk still had the all-time winner:
(https://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110417182640/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/3/39/Andrea.jpg/292px-Andrea.jpg)

The chick who threw herself at Spock in The Cloud Minders deserves mention if we're talking about Spock's girls. I liked that she wanted Spock over Kirk. :lol

Not sure who I'd pick as the best TOS girl, but robot chick would have to be up there. The native gogo dancer in a Private Little War would also be a strong contender, but robot chick may just have it. I always have to go with the brunettes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 02, 2013, 10:29:31 PM
I'm watching Generations right now, and there's one thing I only noticed now: In the beginning where Kirk reconfigures deflector dish on the Enterprise B to break away from the Nexus, they finally break free, but then get one final whip from the Nexus (I guess the one that kills Kirk).

What's funny is, that whip sends most of the bridge crew flying across the bridge. Except fat Scotty, who barely leans to the side :lol
I mean, I understand cinematically that they can't send Scotty flying across the bridge. It's just funny that it happens to be the fat guy who remains glued to his seat :lol

On another note, I still claim that sending Crusher into the ocean was funny. If only because she asked for it with her stupid speech a about "getting into the spirit of things".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 02, 2013, 10:37:28 PM
Yeah, I too caught that last whip when it was on TV recently.

I never understood why everybody came down on Data for dunking Crusher.  Geordi looked at him like he just strangled Spot.  Maybe not everybody thinks that that kind of thing is funny, but it wasn't a symptom of major malfunction or anything.  He actually "calculated" what an unexpected yet harmless move might be, and executed it.  It's called a joke.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 02, 2013, 10:46:31 PM
I guess all that scene served was to illustrate Data's struggle with emotions. It's just a bummer they couldn't come up with a better scenario to show his predicament. For example, they could have shown him missing a vital queue from a crew member, or maybe saying something tactless. Actually, he could have said something about Picard's relatives deaths that could have miffed Picard. That would have been a much better motivator to install the emotion chip than dunking Crusher. He could also have referred to previous instances where being unable to read human emotions got him into trouble, which would have pleased the Trekkies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 02, 2013, 10:53:43 PM
Actually, he could have said something about Picard's relatives deaths that could have miffed Picard. That would have been a much better motivator to install the emotion chip than dunking Crusher. He could also have referred to previous instances where being unable to read human emotions got him into trouble, which would have pleased the Trekkies.
Oh non! Je suis en feu! Sacre bleu!  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 03, 2013, 09:00:18 PM
TNG makeup tests. Mostly it's just a little creepy without any dialogue, but there are some interesting things to note. From ten halfway flattering hairstyles they had to pick from, they chose the big Gina Montana afro for Troi? She still would have been horrible, but maybe if she'd looked more attractive she wouldn't have been so unbearable. Similar thing with Wesley. They clearly didn't have to make him out to be such a dork. It also seems that they should have gone with Lamar instead of LeVar. That would have been a hoot. Lastly, it looks like they ever even considered making Tasha look feminine.

I'll keep saying it, Roddenberry was a freaking menace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lvG0jm0B5Y
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 03, 2013, 09:22:52 PM
I'm not seeing anything to complain about there. All of the hairstyles for Troi looked equally bad. She looked best once she discovered the hair straightener for the movies. She looked best in First Contact imo.
She should have kept that dress though. It looked great on her, but I recall she only wore it for the pilot, then she wore her weird costumes until they stuck her in a Starfleet uniform later on. Apparently they put her in the dress because they thought she wasn't thin enough to wear the Starfleet pantsuit, which is full of crap.

And Wil Weaton is a dork no matter what you do to him. He looks like a dork even NOW. And Tasha looked like a dude no matter what you do to her. :lol

Roddenberry was a menace, but this one is a stretch, even with your opinion of TNG. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 03, 2013, 09:23:56 PM
I'm not seeing anything to complain about there. All of the hairstyles for Troi looked equally bad. She looked best once she discovered the hair straightener for the movies. She looked best in First Contact imo.
She should have kept that dress though. It looked great on her, but I recall she only wore it for the pilot, then she wore her weird costumes until they stuck her in a Starfleet uniform later on. Apparently they stuck her in the dress because they thought she wasn't thin enough to wear the Starfleet pantsuit, which is full of crap.

And Wil Weaton is a dork no matter what you do to him. He looks like a dork even NOW. And Tasha looked like a dude no matter what you do to her. :lol
 


Haha I was coming back in here to pretty much say this ^
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 03, 2013, 09:51:10 PM
Dude, they gave her a giant fro! She looked much better with her hair up (and I'm really not a fan of that, in general). Moreover, Marina Sirtis isn't an unattractive chick. Even if one of those wasn't the answer, they could have done better than a GIANT FUCKING AFRO!

As for Wesley, you're probably right, but at least they considered giving him some style. And my point with Tasha was really that she was poorly cast. You can have a tough girl that's still got some femininity. Hell, how 'bout her sister? There's your answer right there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 03, 2013, 09:55:04 PM
Dude, they gave her a giant fro! She looked much better with her hair up (and I'm really not a fan of that, in general). Moreover, Marina Sirtis isn't an unattractive chick. Even if one of those wasn't the answer, they could have done better than a GIANT FUCKING AFRO!

:lol
Well I've put in my vote. My vote is hair straightener! I don't think any of those other ones were more flattering than what they went with, but I'm not disagreeing that they could have done better. She's not bad looking at all, but those hairstyles weren't helping her. But that's the '80s for you. Her hair got even worse in the later seasons from what I recall too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 03, 2013, 10:17:44 PM
Regarding Tasha Yar, I don't think she was badly cast. It's just that that particular stereotype has fallen out of favor. TNG started when tough women looked like Brigitte Nielsen, Linda Hamilton and Sigourney Weaver. Denise Crosby was completely in line with that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 03, 2013, 10:31:25 PM
Well, for one thing, Linda Hamilton was actually pretty good looking in both Terminator movies. I assume you're referring to II, where she was tough and angry, but she was still attractive and feminine. And on top of that, the chick that played Tasha's sister was much more in line with the heroic Linda Hamilton type. I just don't think making women look like dudes is necessary to make them tough. Personally, I think that tough female action hero thing was exactly what Roddenberry didn't want.

And speaking of Troi, I noticed something else that annoyed me the other night. When Data loses to the galaxy's grand master of some silly game, he relieves himself of duty believing himself defective. When Troi's intellectually crippled ass beats him at chess, he says huh, guess I lost then. I'm barely able to accept Kirk beating Spock in chess, because he is Kirk after all. The idea of Data losing to Troi rates right up there with Troi+Worf as one of the most retarded things they could possibly portray.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 04, 2013, 12:04:26 AM
Well, for one thing, Linda Hamilton was actually pretty good looking in both Terminator movies. I assume you're referring to II, where she was tough and angry, but she was still attractive and feminine. And on top of that, the chick that played Tasha's sister was much more in line with the heroic Linda Hamilton type. I just don't think making women look like dudes is necessary to make them tough. Personally, I think that tough female action hero thing was exactly what Roddenberry didn't want.

And speaking of Troi, I noticed something else that annoyed me the other night. When Data loses to the galaxy's grand master of some silly game, he relieves himself of duty believing himself defective. When Troi's intellectually crippled ass beats him at chess, he says huh, guess I lost then. I'm barely able to accept Kirk beating Spock in chess, because he is Kirk after all. The idea of Data losing to Troi rates right up there with Troi+Worf as one of the most retarded things they could possibly portray.

In a game like chess, I don't buy Kirk beating Spock, or Troi even understanding where the pieces move.

If it was something that had a human or creative element to it, sure, but chess is as far from that as you can get. It's a calculated game. Even in the present day, computers have been programmed to beat chess masters, so I don't believe any humanoid species has a chance against Data, much less Troi of all people. And while I could believe Kirk was good at chess, it's SPOCK!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 05, 2013, 10:55:44 AM
I'm pretty sure Enterprise E's saucer doesn't detach from the hull like 1701-D's did.
Says who? All the other ones could. Kirk referred to it several times. The Excelsior class Enterprise had a battle bridge, suggesting the ability. The Enterprise C blueprints suggest it's an option. Obviously Picard's luxury liner could. Seems unlikely that they'd just suddenly abandon a useful feature.



Actually I seem to recall someone saying that they stuck it in " Encounter At Farpoint " because they could never afford it on TOS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 05, 2013, 11:00:24 AM
I'm pretty sure Enterprise E's saucer doesn't detach from the hull like 1701-D's did.
Says who? All the other ones could. Kirk referred to it several times. The Excelsior class Enterprise had a battle bridge, suggesting the ability. The Enterprise C blueprints suggest it's an option. Obviously Picard's luxury liner could. Seems unlikely that they'd just suddenly abandon a useful feature.



Actually I seem to recall someone saying that they stuck it in " Encounter At Farpoint " because they could never afford it on TOS.
Probably true, but never the less Kirk suggests separating the drive section on a few instances. I know The Apple comes to mind. Because they never did it for cost reasons doesn't mean that it wasn't possible. Also, they published complete technical diagrams and blueprints for the Constitution class, and I'm pretty sure those showed it as being possible and are considered canon.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 05, 2013, 11:02:18 AM
Saw Deja Q the other night.  One of my favorite episodes from TNG.  The scene in Ten forward was amazing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 05, 2013, 11:09:33 AM
Saw Deja Q the other night.  One of my favorite episodes from TNG.  The scene in Ten forward was amazing.
When Guinan stabs him with the fork? That was pretty funny, but the idea that she could do anything to defend herself against a functional Q is about as laughable as Troi beating Data at chess.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 05, 2013, 11:09:38 AM
Over the 7 seasons of TNG - Q goes from being a being a bully to being interested in Picard to actually giving a crap about them to trying to advance their evolution and finally helping Picard understand a tiny bit more about the universe & helping him save it...

But then they throw away that entire character arc in DS9 by having him go right back to being Encounter At Farpoint Q. :(
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 05, 2013, 11:13:18 AM
Saw Deja Q the other night.  One of my favorite episodes from TNG.  The scene in Ten forward was amazing.
When Guinan stabs him with the fork? That was pretty funny, but the idea that she could do anything to defend herself against a functional Q is about as laughable as Troi beating Data at chess.

Yeah I agree but I was talking about when he was with Geordi and he wanted the sundaes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 05, 2013, 11:28:09 AM
Over the 7 seasons of TNG - Q goes from being a being a bully to being interested in Picard to actually giving a crap about them to trying to advance their evolution and finally helping Picard understand a tiny bit more about the universe & helping him save it...

But then they throw away that entire character arc in DS9 by having him go right back to being Encounter At Farpoint Q. :(

Even worse I found that they just reprised the "Q finds captain interesting" with Voyager. It made no sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 05, 2013, 12:34:51 PM
Over the 7 seasons of TNG - Q goes from being a being a bully to being interested in Picard to actually giving a crap about them to trying to advance their evolution and finally helping Picard understand a tiny bit more about the universe & helping him save it...

But then they throw away that entire character arc in DS9 by having him go right back to being Encounter At Farpoint Q. :(

Even worse I found that they just reprised the "Q finds captain interesting" with Voyager. It made no sense whatsoever.
Perhaps, but Janeway was more interesting. Both by virtue of being a chick, which Q played on quite a bit, and by being stuck in the middle of Bumfuck. With the exception of Deathwish, which I thought was very good, I didn't much care for the other Q episodes, but they were still better than the crossover mess that was DS9's attempt.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 05, 2013, 10:02:05 PM
I'm pretty sure Enterprise E's saucer doesn't detach from the hull like 1701-D's did.
Says who? All the other ones could. Kirk referred to it several times. The Excelsior class Enterprise had a battle bridge, suggesting the ability. The Enterprise C blueprints suggest it's an option. Obviously Picard's luxury liner could. Seems unlikely that they'd just suddenly abandon a useful feature.



Actually I seem to recall someone saying that they stuck it in " Encounter At Farpoint " because they could never afford it on TOS.
Probably true, but never the less Kirk suggests separating the drive section on a few instances. I know The Apple comes to mind. Because they never did it for cost reasons doesn't mean that it wasn't possible. Also, they published complete technical diagrams and blueprints for the Constitution class, and I'm pretty sure those showed it as being possible and are considered canon.

I'm a blueprints hoarder and interesting in the tech side, and this is the first I've ever heard of the idea of the Constitution class separating.
I always found it a little silly anyway, Picard would threaten to separate the saucer section every second episode, but they did it a grand total of maybe twice in the series, plus Generations where it actually was pretty cool.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 05, 2013, 10:37:27 PM
It's funny how they ended up with this whole separation thing simply through a  dramatic plot device from their first episode :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 05, 2013, 10:51:57 PM
I'm pretty sure Enterprise E's saucer doesn't detach from the hull like 1701-D's did.
Says who? All the other ones could. Kirk referred to it several times. The Excelsior class Enterprise had a battle bridge, suggesting the ability. The Enterprise C blueprints suggest it's an option. Obviously Picard's luxury liner could. Seems unlikely that they'd just suddenly abandon a useful feature.



Actually I seem to recall someone saying that they stuck it in " Encounter At Farpoint " because they could never afford it on TOS.
Probably true, but never the less Kirk suggests separating the drive section on a few instances. I know The Apple comes to mind. Because they never did it for cost reasons doesn't mean that it wasn't possible. Also, they published complete technical diagrams and blueprints for the Constitution class, and I'm pretty sure those showed it as being possible and are considered canon.

I'm a blueprints hoarder and interesting in the tech side, and this is the first I've ever heard of the idea of the Constitution class separating.
I always found it a little silly anyway, Picard would threaten to separate the saucer section every second episode, but they did it a grand total of maybe twice in the series, plus Generations where it actually was pretty cool.
Alright, I guess it's time to put the geek hat on.

According to the construction plans it was built as two separate hulls. "Primary hull secured to engineering/warp drive hull for final shakedown test cruises. No way to be sure, but that hook looks like it might be a latching mechanism.
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/uss-enterprise-construction-plans-sheet-2.jpg

The refit 1701A has a specific hull separation assbly listed in the blueprints. While that doesn't mean 1701 did, it's still the same hulls.
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/enterprise-phase-2-refit-program/enterprise-phase-2-refit-program-sheet-11.jpg

In the writer's bible for TOS, it was explicitly stated that it was possible, and you don't really get much more canon than that. "in fact a completely self-sustaining unit which can detach itself from the galaxy drive units and operate on atomic impulse power for short range solar system exploration."

One thing I do appear to be wrong about is that Kirk only referred to jettisoning the nacelles, rather than detaching the two hulls. But then TOS wasn't exactly well known for consistence with their terminology.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 05, 2013, 11:20:27 PM
That first link doesn't indicate to me that it was designed to separate, only that it was built in separate pieces, which is nothing new, since it's obviously not built as one unit. It's just general scifi fluff to make the construction sound real (which I always like). The second link says 2004, so I don't count that source unless it has an earlier lineage.

I haven't seen the writer's bible for TOS, so I can't comment on that.
There's nothing wrong with Kirk referring to jettisoning the nacelles though. The whole purpose of the Enterprise design was to keep the nacelles away from the main ship because they'd be dangerous, and you'd want to be able to release them safely. I don't recall any mention of the engine itself in the secondary hull being dangerous, so I'm not sure what the deal is there, but I don't think TOS had the same concept of a warp core as they did later on. You'd think they really should have used saucer separation in the TOS movies if it were possible though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 05, 2013, 11:44:24 PM
You'd think they really should have used saucer separation in the TOS movies if it were possible though.
The second link I posted was actually for the refit used in TMP, not the 1701A as I mistakenly said. Also, GR was very clear that he wanted a separation sequence in there and it wasn't doable (which is probably a good thing as it would have added another 25 minutes to the thing). He also wanted to separate it in III before blowing up the Klingons, and was thankfully overruled (his was a really awful, cheesy idea).

I posted links for the writer's bibles somewhere in this (or the previous) thread. They're available as scanned images in a pdf. As it pertains here, all I can tell you is that both Roddenberry and the writers both intended it to be separable, even before TNG. That just seems more informative to me than the fact that we never saw it happen in the first 76 or so stories.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 07, 2013, 01:02:06 PM
https://www.startrek.com/article/next-star-trek-films-writers-revealed

New Writers for Star Trek 3.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 07, 2013, 01:36:38 PM
https://www.startrek.com/article/next-star-trek-films-writers-revealed

New Writers for Star Trek 3.
Well, sort of. They're keeping Orci and replacing Kurzman with two other guys. The problem as I see it is that it's not the day to day screenplay/dialog type stuff that's the problem. Most of the dialog was actually pretty good. It's the overall story, and with Orci as the head writer, I don't see how likely it is to see much improvement there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 07, 2013, 10:20:27 PM
https://www.startrek.com/article/next-star-trek-films-writers-revealed

New Writers for Star Trek 3.
Well, sort of. They're keeping Orci and replacing Kurzman with two other guys. The problem as I see it is that it's not the day to day screenplay/dialog type stuff that's the problem. Most of the dialog was actually pretty good. It's the overall story, and with Orci as the head writer, I don't see how likely it is to see much improvement there.

Yup as long as Orci is in the mix, I'm very cautious about getting excited about this. I don't know who these two dudes are, and I doubt they have as much pull as one of JJ's golden boys.
Another problem with the first two movies (at least ST:2009) is the editing favouring the action over the dialogue and expositional scenes, so I'm still concerned about JJ's amount of involvement in the movie too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 08, 2013, 07:48:15 PM
Brain and brain. What is brain?!

Gotta be the campiest and hilarious line ever in ST. Kinda also encapsulates ST's image of women in a nutshell (at least TOS).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 08, 2013, 07:56:52 PM
I love how it only took like 4 buttons to completely control Spock.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 08, 2013, 08:29:13 PM
Totally :lol unlabeled too!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 10, 2013, 10:16:10 AM
So who do we all want to direct Star Trek 3 ?

These are my 5 choices :

1. Joss Whedon - he can do storytelling and action as evidenced by The Avengers - which was a fantastic film.
2. Joseph Kosinski - because Oblivion was a visual treat.
3. Edgar Wright. I'd love to see what he could do with a massive budget.
4. Duncan Jones. Same as 3. Both of his films so far have been awesome and I think he would do a great Star Trek movie.
5. Steven Spielberg. As a favour to JJ . Also he was involved in Super 8 and helped out on 2009.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 10, 2013, 11:30:59 AM
I don't think it'll really matter, though I'm happy JJA is gone. Honestly, the bigger issue is market forces rather than writing and directing. I don't think the movie-going public will support a true sci-fi movie. Certainly not in the numbers needed to cover a movie of this scale.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 10, 2013, 11:21:27 PM
I thought they'd already chosen some guy who hasn't done anything good or scifi.

I'd be down with Spielberg or Whedon (even though I've barely seen anything he's done at all), but I don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 11, 2013, 05:48:14 AM
Joe Cornish is no longer in the running.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2013, 05:55:07 AM
That's not the guy I was thinking of. We'll see who it ends up being. I'm excited at the chance to have someone else in charge, so hopefully they're smart enough to get someone who understands the genre, instead of some Hollywood explosion maker.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 11, 2013, 10:31:06 AM
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/rumborak/1468620_820282528001202_1564385368_n_zps3aaf3c9d.jpg) (https://smg.photobucket.com/user/rumborak/media/1468620_820282528001202_1564385368_n_zps3aaf3c9d.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 11, 2013, 11:33:35 AM
 :omg:

I... I never...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on December 11, 2013, 04:32:59 PM
(https://www.gorestruly.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/1238157980_scanners_-_head_explosion.gif)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 13, 2013, 02:12:13 AM
Generations is 20 years old and nobody realised til now ?! :lol

My Dad made that same joke coming out of the cinema :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 13, 2013, 04:28:34 PM
Actually, I didn't realize until now that Generations is 20 years old.  Damn!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 15, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RrG4JnrN5GA

Shut up, Wesley!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 15, 2013, 04:56:11 PM
That was pretty well done.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 22, 2013, 06:22:44 PM
Man, after watching the first few episodes of DS9 it's amazing that it lasted long enough to get as good as it did. The pilot was just awful. Most of the early character exposition was annoyingly heavy-handed. It seemed they were really interested in making O'Brian a central character, well before he had any personality to really focus on. The generic ST plots are woefully ill-suited for the DS9 format. It was certainly better than TNG, but that really just means that it wasn't as awful as it's possible to be.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 22, 2013, 06:56:14 PM
I feel most TV show look bad early on.  it's rare to hit a home run right away.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 22, 2013, 07:07:15 PM
Man, after watching the first few episodes of DS9 it's amazing that it lasted long enough to get as good as it did. The pilot was just awful. Most of the early character exposition was annoyingly heavy-handed. It seemed they were really interested in making O'Brian a central character, well before he had any personality to really focus on. The generic ST plots are woefully ill-suited for the DS9 format. It was certainly better than TNG, but that really just means that it wasn't as awful as it's possible to be.

I thought DS9 was easily the strongest Trek series out of the gate (without much competition), and I thought the first season was fairly good relatively speaking, even if nowhere near as good as it would become in later seasons. TOS had by far the weakest start imo. The first half of season 1 was dreadful, but then it hit its stride and started churning out the better ones.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on December 22, 2013, 07:24:15 PM
The Emissary is my favorite pilot episode of a Star Trek series.

That doesn't really speak to the strength of The Emissary but more to the overall weakness of the pilot episodes. Caretaker is not bad, but it's relatively boring. Farpoint is just... gah. There's some good stuff in that episode, but god is it a pile of cornballs. I never really watched any Enterprise aside from a scattered few episodes so I can't judge that one.

As for the OS, I guess it depends on whether you consider The Cage or Where No Man Has Gone Before. The Cage is passably interesting. It has a neat, though very 1960's sci-fi premise, but that's it. WNMHGB is better, but it doesn't really feel at all like a pilot episode. Still, fairly good overall.

The Emissary does have a few problems with the writing and most of the acting is... awful, but, as a pilot, it set up quite a few plot threads successfully, introduced a rather eclectic (for Star Trek) cast of characters rather well and was a fairly interesting story overall. Not a great episode, but when I rewatch it I usually enjoy it, except part 2 is pretty tedious at points.

I'll give TNG the award for worst first season. There is not a single episode in the first season that I'd call necessary or worthwhile viewing. Maybe "Conspiracy" but that's because it's so batshit crazy and un-Trek-like. The rest? Seeing it once was enough.

TOS had "The Naked Time" which was far more fun than 95% of TNG's first season, so it wins on that only. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 22, 2013, 07:36:42 PM
Aside from TOS, every Trek series had a noticeably weaker first 2 seasons, then had a distinct turning point for the start of S3.

TNG was impacted by the writer's strike, and the first two seasons were weak, ending with Trek's only clip show. For S3 they ditched chicken body McCoy clone doctor and got back on track and began to improve.
DS9 S3 started off with introducing the Defiant, the shapeshifters, and finally started to really get into the Dominion arc.
Voyager started S3 by kicking the Kazon's ass off the show for good (and improved even further with S4 when they got 7 of 9).
Enterprise started S3 with new staff, and had the Xindi arc, with their strongest season.

TOS was if anything the opposite, with the first 2 seasons being the strongest, with S3 being regarded as the weakest (although I think it's about as good as S1 overall).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 22, 2013, 07:38:59 PM
My biggest issue with Emmissary (aside from the dreadful acting) was that the exposition was so forced. You really don't need to explain Dax right out of the gate. You don't need to establish backstories right out of the gate. That's just corny. Let the characters evolve naturally instead of providing them with soliloquy opportunities to tell you who they are. That's part of the reason I thought Caretaker was so much better as a pilot. It seemed like they were starting with something of a clean slate and the characters got to grow into their roles.

As for TOS, it's not so easy to tell since they were aired way out of order. The first few episodes included WNMHGB, Corbomite Maneuver and Naked Time. A lot of the crap they started the show with was much later in production order. Add to that, since there wasn't really any progression, I don't think any of the seasons are different from each other. I don't get when people say that one season is better than another; they're all the same.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 22, 2013, 07:57:59 PM
As for TOS, it's not so easy to tell since they were aired way out of order. The first few episodes included WNMHGB, Corbomite Maneuver and Naked Time. A lot of the crap they started the show with was much later in production order. Add to that, since there wasn't really any progression, I don't think any of the seasons are different from each other. I don't get when people say that one season is better than another; they're all the same.

It definitely didn't have the large changes that some of the other series had in terms of cast, premise, locations etc that made seasons significantly better or worse than others. I find they all go together fairly uniformly. I don't even mind Spock's Brain. :lol
I'd say S2 is probably the most consistent overall, and if I had to rank them, I'd go 2, 1, 3, but there wasn't as much of a divide as the other series had.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on December 22, 2013, 08:13:11 PM
My biggest issue with Emmissary (aside from the dreadful acting) was that the exposition was so forced. You really don't need to explain Dax right out of the gate. You don't need to establish backstories right out of the gate. That's just corny. Let the characters evolve naturally instead of providing them with soliloquy opportunities to tell you who they are. That's part of the reason I thought Caretaker was so much better as a pilot. It seemed like they were starting with something of a clean slate and the characters got to grow into their roles.
I think you should, as that's really the purpose of a pilot; to establish the setting and characters. This is especially important when characters are different species, the viewer should have some idea of what Dax or Odo are. That said, the absolute clunkiest piece of dialogue in Emissary is easily Odo's infodumping about where he was first discovered. It comes completely out of nowhere and it's probably a piece of information that could have been left off for a later episode.

Now whether Emissary did so effectively is another, entirely different debate. I give it props for trying if not succeeding all of the time. TOS really didn't even try. TNG did, but I was largely indifferent to the results and Voyager had a somewhat promising introduction of characters and then promptly dropped most of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 04, 2014, 04:35:45 PM
Finally, some funny news from my state.

Indian Trail councilman tenders resignation – in Klingon (https://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/02/4582880/indian-trail-councilman-resigns.html#.UsiajPRDuSq)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: FreezingPoint on January 04, 2014, 05:32:51 PM
"Perhaps today is a good day to resign"

 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 16, 2014, 11:24:32 AM
Haha.

So glad Nemesis under-performed.

Pat Stewart said that they already had a script ready for the follow up which would unite every living Star Trek character in one film.

:lol Holy Fuck that would have been SHIT.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 16, 2014, 01:25:11 PM
A rare agreement between us. It would have been complete and utter shit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 16, 2014, 01:40:42 PM
Star Trek: Where's Waldo
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 16, 2014, 02:09:25 PM
Shit like that is best left to obsessive fangirls on their tumblr.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 16, 2014, 04:27:30 PM
Haha.

So glad Nemesis under-performed.

Pat Stewart said that they already had a script ready for the follow up which would unite every living Star Trek character in one film.

:lol Holy Fuck that would have been SHIT.

It sounds like it would have been a desperate last grab anyway, so luckily that didn't go anywhere.
Now we just get that kind of fanwank in fan films instead. :lol

Shit like that is best left to obsessive fangirls on their tumblr.

GIRLS? This is scifi, man! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 16, 2014, 05:21:39 PM
i meant fan GIRLS as an all-encompassing pejorative term ;) 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 16, 2014, 05:24:39 PM
Speaking of fan wank, whatever happened to that Koenig/Russ thing, Renegades? Is it on ice?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 16, 2014, 05:30:05 PM
AFAIK - it's still going and still looks terrible.

Star Trek Continues looks like the best fan made show out there. Pilgrim Of Eternity was really well made. It just needed a bit better casting.

Obviously Chris Doohan is in it. And Grant Imahara is pretty good as Sulu. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 16, 2014, 05:42:24 PM
Renegades is basically done now, and looks slightly better than I expected (although I had less than zero expectations). And wtf is with the Transformers logo thingy they did with that? :lol

i meant fan GIRLS as an all-encompassing pejorative term ;) 

OH NO YOU DIN'T!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 18, 2014, 09:47:25 PM
You know, I love First Contact to death, but the idea that some guy living in sheet metal barracks after a nuclear war would put together a warp-capable rocket, is kinda ludicrous.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 18, 2014, 10:11:40 PM
And even if it was possible, I don't think it would be the highest priority to them in that state of the world. Relatively slow space exploration technology doesn't seem like something the human race would value in a post apocalyptic kind of world.

I love FC as well, but that seemed a little odd to me too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 18, 2014, 11:07:23 PM
You know, I love First Contact to death, but the idea that some guy living in sheet metal barracks after a nuclear war would put together a warp-capable rocket, is kinda ludicrous.
Moreover that guy? And he said he was in it for the money. Money for what? From who? Like it was lack of money that caused them all to live in a unabomber style shacks in Montana? Entertaining movie, I suppose, but monumentally dumb.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 19, 2014, 03:22:59 AM
Definitely the film's shortcoming.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 20, 2014, 06:28:33 PM
So I'm watching DS9 again, and it occurs to me that the two best characters (by a huge margin) are both Cardassians. This got me thinking, it seems on all of the franchise's best characters are the ones that they added or developed later, while the characters they start with are normally pretty weak. Worf was just a walking scowl and lousy at his job until Michael Dorn talked them into letting him develop the character more with the whole family honor thing. The best characters on DS9 are Garak, Dukat and later on Weyoun; all added as one-off characters that expanded because they were so good (IIRC, Weyoun actually died in his first appearance, so they made all of the Vorta clones to bring him back). Bashir was actually a pretty interesting and entertaining character, but only after they decided to make him Khan Jr. The only character really interesting on VOY was Seven; a late series addition. I think we can all agree that Shran was the only really good thing about ENT (Vulcan titties aside); same story.

Just my take, obviously, but it seems like the show creators tend to be far less apt to create really strong characters as the show writers and the actors they get to play them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on January 20, 2014, 08:11:10 PM
The best characters live in the gray.  To me, in any TV show that makes them the best character.  Nobody is that good and nobody is that bad and if they are, they are a caricature.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 20, 2014, 08:18:48 PM
Yeah, I agree. And I think a lot of Cardassians ended up being great characters because ever since Chain of Command they established that Cardassians are cunning and ruthless, and yet loving and proud at the same time. That just makes them interesting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on January 21, 2014, 02:24:16 PM
The Cardassians have always been my favorite alien race in the ST universe. They look badass and they're more believable than most of the other species.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 21, 2014, 02:28:03 PM
The very worst Cardassian is Kim Cardassian .  :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 21, 2014, 04:46:48 PM
The Cardassians have always been my favorite alien race in the ST universe. They look badass and they're more believable than most of the other species.
The funny thing is that I've always hated them as generic bad guys. It's only the ones you actually get to know that make them worthwhile. Almost the exact opposite of the Klingons and the Romulans. I like them both as evil empires, but couldn't name any one in particular that I really liked. Kern was a pretty good Klingon, I suppose. Hell, try naming your favorite Romulan.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 21, 2014, 04:49:59 PM
You know, given the number of episodes the Romulans appeared in, they stayed remarkably one-dimensional. Maybe the problem was that any kind of"normalcy" would have made them Vulcan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on January 21, 2014, 04:54:49 PM
I loved Gowron.  He was so over the top as a character. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 21, 2014, 05:18:23 PM
You know, given the number of episodes the Romulans appeared in, they stayed remarkably one-dimensional. Maybe the problem was that any kind of"normalcy" would have made them Vulcan.
I'm not sure one-dimensional is how I'd describe them. When we got insight they were usually pretty interesting. Troi masquerading as a member of the Tal Shiar and having dinner with the commander, for example. Neat to see the dynamic between the military and the intelligence apparatus. The political aspect that we saw in Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges. Even Spock porking the chick commander in TOS.  I don't think they were ever in danger of becoming too Vulcan. They just never developed any of the individuals enough to provide personal insight.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on January 21, 2014, 06:14:19 PM
Favorite Klingon?  General.  Chang.

How can you not love a Klingon quoting Shakespeare while he tee's off on a couple of Federation starships??

Favorite Romulan?  Nero.  Bad ass miner.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 21, 2014, 06:48:08 PM
Be careful discussing the prequels around here ! Blob will come and fire you out of his Star Trek Canon.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 21, 2014, 08:28:14 PM
Nero, in my personal opinion, was not a Romulan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 21, 2014, 08:39:06 PM
Nero, in my personal opinion, was not a Romulan.

He was Nosferatu. Those were not Romulans at all in that movie, they were JJ asserting his power over Trek by turning every race into generic goblins.
I don't think there's ever been a particularly good Romulan though.

For Klingons, I'm going with Martok. He was awesome. And Gorwon was cool too. I called him crazy eyes.
And Garak and Dukat were both standout characters. Dukat's replacement in later seasons was terrible though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on January 21, 2014, 09:27:07 PM
Hell, try naming your favorite Romulan.  :lol
That Romulan from The Defector.

What do you mean I can't remember his name? Shut up!

Nero, in my personal opinion, was not a Romulan.

He was Nosferatu. Those were not Romulans at all in that movie, they were JJ asserting his power over Trek by turning every race into generic goblins.
I don't think there's ever been a particularly good Romulan though.

For Klingons, I'm going with Martok. He was awesome. And Gorwon was cool too. I called him crazy eyes.
And Garak and Dukat were both standout characters. Dukat's replacement in later seasons was terrible though.
Damar had a pretty awesome character arc though.

Favorite Klingon: Gowron or Chang
Favorite Cardassian: Dukat. I agree that the Cardassians tended to have a better supply of developed and interesting characters. Maybe it was more due to DS9's stationary setting, where the writers could more easily (and more frequently) bring in background characters and flesh them out.
Favorite Romulan: Defector Guy

Yeah Romulans get the short end of the stick, which is too bad as they were pretty good villains. TNG tried to establish them as a major, recurring villain but, for some reason, they just couldn't do it. Tomalak (sp?) was on the show too infrequently to be an effective, recurring character and the few times he was, none of that time was spent fleshing him out. As it is, he had villain-of-the-week syndrome, show up, threaten the cast and then, at the end, he would be shaking his fist and cursing about how would've gotten away with it all if it weren't for those 'sneaky Federation officers and their darn android.' It certainly didn't help that they were largely phased out around Season 4-ish which was too bad, as the Romulan and Klingon-heavy episodes leading up to the Klingon civil war and the Unification episodes were frequently some of the best. Oh well, poor Romulans.

As for Nero, he's less a character than a plot-device. It's kinda like calling the giant probe from Star Trek IV one of the best Trek villains. Eric Bana did well with what he had, but the role was so boring.  His job was to provide an element of danger and get the crew together, which he did, so kudos to Nero... I guess.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 21, 2014, 09:34:42 PM
I just remembered who my favourite Romulan was-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKcJF4fOPs
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 21, 2014, 09:38:03 PM
He was fine as a plot device, it's just that a Abrams needed to slap the label "Romulan" on the guy just so he could increase the Trekkiness of the movie, even though the guy had nothing to do with being Romulan really.

Then again, don't even get me started on Remans. What the fuck was that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 21, 2014, 09:44:06 PM
He was fine as a plot device, it's just that a Abrams needed to slap the label "Romulan" on the guy just so he could increase the Trekkiness of the movie, even though the guy had nothing to do with being Romulan really.

And substitute "Romulan" for "Khan" and it also applies to Into Darkness. :lol

When was the last time a Trek movie had a great bad guy anyway? Nu-Khan, Nero, Shinzon, the plastic surgery guys etc.
I saw TWOK on TV the other night, and Khan was just such a good bad guy that he's been the unreachable benchmark for over 30 years now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on January 21, 2014, 09:47:45 PM
He was fine as a plot device, it's just that a Abrams needed to slap the label "Romulan" on the guy just so he could increase the Trekkiness of the movie, even though the guy had nothing to do with being Romulan really.

And substitute "Romulan" for "Khan" and it also applies to Into Darkness. :lol

When was the last time a Trek movie had a great bad guy anyway? Nu-Khan, Nero, Shinzon, the plastic surgery guys etc.
I saw TWOK on TV the other night, and Khan was just such a good bad guy that he's been the unreachable benchmark for over 30 years now.

The Borg Bitch?  Wait, you said "guy".

General Chang.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 21, 2014, 09:53:32 PM
The Borg Bitch?  Wait, you said "guy".

General Chang.

I wasn't going to mention the Borg Queen anyway, since she's a controversial one (although I was ok with it). So let's just go with Chang.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 21, 2014, 10:06:59 PM
Martok was a good Klingon; forgot about him. And I certainly considered the defector, but one episode doesn't usually make you a great character. I suppose that was the problem they always ran into. Just hard to explain why the same to guys keep running into each other while out exploring the galaxy. Still, with Romulan involvement in the Dominion war, it seems like they could have at least introduced somebody, or had one of the senators show up from time to time. I can only think of 2 Romulans that had multiple appearances on any of the shows. Tomalok, who was the pussiest Romulan they could have come up with, and Sela who was only there so they could bring ole whatshername back from time to time.

I think Kor might be my favorite Klingon. Not only was he the original, but he was both the typical bloodthirsty, honor-bound type, but he was also somewhat enlightened. Enjoyed partying and slaughtering equally. Well rounded character.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 21, 2014, 10:24:02 PM
What's interesting is how the most integral alien race associated with Star Trek, Vulcans, completely fell off the truck. A few TNG episodes that had them (if only to get a Nimoy cameo), but were there any Vulcans in DS9? Voyager finally brought one back, and ENT too I guess. But they always struck me as a forgotten race.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on January 21, 2014, 10:30:36 PM
What's interesting is how the most integral alien race associated with Star Trek, Vulcans, completely fell off the truck. A few TNG episodes that had them (if only to get a Nimoy cameo), but were there any Vulcans in DS9? Voyager finally brought one back, and ENT too I guess. But they always struck me as a forgotten race.
That douchebag Vulcan in the baseball episode. ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 21, 2014, 10:47:58 PM
Quark was hitting on one just yesterday (in my viewing schedule, that is). One of a pair of Vulcans operating with the Maquis. In the end they just kind of transformed into the aptly described intellectual puppets of the federation, I suppose. They really did just become humanity's lapdog.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 21, 2014, 10:56:04 PM
What's interesting is how the most integral alien race associated with Star Trek, Vulcans, completely fell off the truck. A few TNG episodes that had them (if only to get a Nimoy cameo), but were there any Vulcans in DS9? Voyager finally brought one back, and ENT too I guess. But they always struck me as a forgotten race.

Vulcans were relatively rare in DS9, and mostly mocked or treated as "bad" guys.
Voyager only had a couple, which was understandable given that they only had a finite crew (same with many other core races in the show), although Tuvok is one of my favourite Vulcans.
They were fairly integral in ENT, but again were put in a role where they were against the humans more than they seemed to be with them.
And then JJ had a laugh and killed most of them off, so I wouldn't expect them to get featured much in this alternate universe either.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 23, 2014, 09:54:20 PM
Here's a random Star Trek observation: Did you ever notice that the two times they used a projector screen in a movie, each time the person had to repeat the command to turn it off?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2014, 07:33:16 AM
Examples ?

I can only think of " viewer off ! " from The Motion Picture.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 24, 2014, 07:47:10 AM
And the Klingon who has to yell "Hold the image. Hold the image!"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2014, 07:50:05 AM
How would everyone rank the performances in the JJ Abrams films compared to their original series counterparts ?

I think Karl Urban is the most like Bones and i can't imagine anyone else doing it better. Whilst Simon Pegg is just doing Simon Pegg with a vaguely Scots accent.

For all his talk of wanting to honour James Doohan - i think there's not a trace of Jimmy's Scotty in Pegg. Aside from occasionally drinking.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 24, 2014, 07:56:33 AM
I disagree. Pegg to me captures TOS Scotty quite well. It's just that Doohan's "movie Scotty" was so different from TOS Scotty. In fact, I never liked the movie Scotty, I think he's gimmicky. And fuck, at least Pegg has a real Scottish accent. Having met and conversed with quite a few Scots in my life, whatever Doohan is doing there has little to do with Scots.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on January 24, 2014, 08:06:29 AM
I agree.   Pegg's Scott is perfect.   The best thing about JJ's movies was the casting.    Even where there are differences from the originals, I feel like they nailed it.   Sulu and Uhura fall into that category. 

But as far as "most like the originals" I'd say.....

Bones
Kirk
Spock/Scotty (tie)


Sulu
Uhura



Chekov
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2014, 08:14:30 AM
The worst thing about Anton Yelchin is why is hair nothing at all like Koening ? They didn't have to give him identical hair but at least get it somewhere in the vicinity...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 24, 2014, 12:01:27 PM
Paris had the 3-d movie program in the holodeck. They also watched plenty of movies on ENT.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on January 24, 2014, 12:02:07 PM
The worst thing about Anton Yelchin is why is hair nothing at all like Koening ? They didn't have to give him identical hair but at least get it somewhere in the vicinity...

Of the main characters, only Spock's hair looks anything like the original cast's.  Maybe also Bones'.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2014, 04:55:54 PM
You couldn't not do Spock's pudding bowl haircut ! :lol

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2014, 06:18:28 PM
Also - before Star Trek 11 - I had never heard of Chris Pine or Zoe Saldana before.

Then Zoe was in Avatar in the same year.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on January 24, 2014, 07:58:03 PM
Also - before Star Trek 11 - I had never heard of Chris Pine or Zoe Saldana before.

Then Zoe was in Avatar in the same year.

Maybe you should watch more than 5 movies then. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2014, 08:45:49 PM
What 5 movies are they ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on January 25, 2014, 04:34:08 AM
All Star Trek of course!

I kid!  I kid!

Pine is fairly new to acting but the first movie I remember him is was Smoking Aces.


Zoe has been acting longer than Pine and was in one of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on January 25, 2014, 09:15:43 AM
Pine was in Smoking Aces? How did he manage to move on to Star Trek after that rancid bag of shit? Clearly he has friends in high places.

He was also in Bottle Shock, but I didn't see that until after Abrams Trek 2009.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on January 25, 2014, 11:15:23 AM
He was also the love interest in Princess Diaries 2....

(shut up...sometimes the TV just gets left on... )
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 25, 2014, 11:40:12 AM
Plus he was in Just My Luck with Lindsay Lohan I believe and the band McFly ;D


Hey  :angry: i happen to like their first CD.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on January 25, 2014, 12:06:24 PM
Zoe was good in The Losers (excellent movie, BTW).  Been meaning to check out Columbiana
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: sueño on January 26, 2014, 01:16:24 PM
Zoe was the love interest in "Drumline".  She's a good dancer.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 17, 2014, 10:24:17 AM
Does anyone recall the rumour that Matt Damon was in line to play Kirk ?

I'm glad Pine got it because I can't imagine anyone else playing him now.

I think Matt Damon would have been too big a name to play Kirk.


And also : :lol at people who said that the original cast should *still* be playing themselves.

Yes ! 85 year old Shatner playing pre- 5 year mission Kirk. I foresee no problems there !


And I definitely see no problems with James Doohan or Deforest Kelley reprising their roles.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 17, 2014, 06:17:57 PM
I never heard the Matt Damon rumour, but I don't like him, so I'm glad that wasn't a thing.
I think Chris Pine was a perfect casting decision. He can play every side of the Kirk character well. I have serious issues with the writing for his character, but his performance is great.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 17, 2014, 06:21:40 PM
Karl Urban is absolutely perfect as Bones though.

And a quick aside RE : the writing. Obviously he's not going to be the exact same Kirk from TOS since the events of 2009.

And i'm not just saying " Duh - New Timeline DUH " because that can't explain everything that's different.

Finally - he is supposed to be the Kirk we all know at the end of Into Darkness and the two films are about his journey to be captain of Enterprise.

But yeah - the whole point of 2009 was to free future movies from the already cluttered constraints of Star Trek canon.

( what they do with this new timeline has been thoroughly discussed in this thread so no need to drag it up again ).

:) Just my two pence guv.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 17, 2014, 06:28:21 PM
My issue isn't with him being different to the original character at all, I just felt his rise to captain in the first movie made absolutely no sense, it was completely ridiculous in its own right. I'd barely seen any original Trek when I first saw the movie, so I didn't even have much basis for comparison there.
I don't recall having any major issues with his character's writing in the second movie though, where the Kirk/Spock relationship was more well developed (although nowhere near enough for the TWOK copy ending to have any resonance whatsoever).

Aside from the Uhura relationship, I mostly liked how they wrote Spock's character too, and Quinto was another perfect casting decision there. I liked that they made the internal struggle between human and Vulcan side more apparent too, even though different to TOS Spock.

I'm actually mixed on Bones, but mostly positive. Karl Urban does a good job, but unlike Kirk and Spock, I feel like he's doing an impression of Deforest Kelley, rather than truly inhabiting the character as his own unique take. He otherwise does a great job.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 17, 2014, 06:44:06 PM
Well to be fair - although played perfectly - Bones was pretty much the same from " Where No Man Has Gone Before " all the way to " The Undiscovered Country ".

You can't really have him doing anything different to being grumpy doc who hates transporters.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 17, 2014, 06:50:45 PM
My take on Kirk's rise to Captain in 2009.

• Pike was very fond of Kirk and wanted him to live up to George Kirk's example.

• He showed that he had a lot of promise - by managing to stowaway on board Enterprise - trespass on the bridge in order to try to save the ship from destruction.

• When Pike promoted him to first officer - Kirk & Spock can't even believe it and Spock asks if it is a joke. This at least shows that the characters in the film are

aware of how ridiculous this is.

• I think Pike just wanted Kirk to prove himself.


However - I will concede that it did happen really too fast - and he probably should have stayed a cadet until the end of the film and be promoted to First Officer - then

start the sequel with him as acting captain or something - then *finally* at the end of the second film have him be the bona fide Captain of The Enterprise.


I actually have less criticisms of 2009 than I do of Into Darkness but I enjoy Into Darkness a lot more.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 17, 2014, 06:50:48 PM
You can be a grumpy doc without copying Deforrest Kelley though. :biggrin:

As I said, I liked his performance, but it just too often walked that line for me. But I like Karl Urban, and he was still a good casting choice.

re: Kirk, him stowing away and coming onto the bridge isn't a positive thing at all. It shows that he doesn't obey orders, and has an undeserved sense of entitlement, and is reckless and unfit for running a ship, which they then validate for no good reason. Now that I think about it, that would appeal perfectly to the younger generation, who are exactly like that. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on February 17, 2014, 07:25:08 PM
I'm with Blob. Kirk's rise was not particularly believable. Like, you were just banished, and all it takes is a shouting match to assume control of a Federation ship?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 17, 2014, 07:30:37 PM
I think Spock was being unreasonable / jealous in that scene.

Pike made Kirk first officer - you can't just decide to throw your first officer off the ship just because you disagree with him.

Certainly not if you're only *acting* captain.

Confined to quarters or relieved of duty *maybe*.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on February 17, 2014, 08:17:59 PM
IMO....Kirk's rise may not have been 100% believable, but it was 100% in line with the character of Captain Kirk.    Don't doubt this.   The character of Kirk has more laughable luck in his history than James Bond.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 17, 2014, 09:48:09 PM
While I won't argue the luck point, the original Kirk was actually quite different. TOS Kirk was pretty damned intelligent and learned. Considered a bookworm at the academy, worked his way up through the ranks learning more as he went. If anything, it's the new Kirk that relies on luck and blunders his way forward (the whole premise of ID).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on February 17, 2014, 10:04:51 PM
While I won't argue the luck point, the original Kirk was actually quite different. TOS Kirk was pretty damned intelligent and learned. Considered a bookworm at the academy, worked his way up through the ranks learning more as he went. If anything, it's the new Kirk that relies on luck and blunders his way forward (the whole premise of ID).

The "new" Kirk had a different opportunity....one that the "old" Kirk would not have hesitated for a second to capitalize on, had it been presented to him. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 28, 2014, 08:29:27 AM
Time to rank all the Enterprises by aesthetic value !  Not by size or believability !

1. NCC 1701 Constitution II Class. Just the most classic Ship design in Trek by far and easily my favourite spaceship design ever.
2. NCC 1701 Constitution Class - Alternate Timeline - The one from the reboots. I love how it's almost a cross between the TOS and TMP Enterprises. Sleek.
3. NCC 1701 E - Sovereign Class. I love how sleek this one is too. Like a much improved Excelsior crossed with an updated 1701-A design.
4. NCC 1701 D - Galaxy Class - Picard's ride. A bit bulbous but still better than Capt. Garett's fat ship. Plus we got to knew her pretty well over 7 years of the TV show and  1 movie. I love how they subtly changed her bridge and lit her differently in Generations. 
5. NCC 1701 B - Pretty much an Excelsior class with stuff added on. I liked it at the time but it could have been better. But it's still not as ugly as :
6. NCC 1701 C - Yesterday's Enterprise ship. Basically a fat excelsior and a not as nifty a design as Picard's.

If I had to include NX-01 - Archer's ship - it would be between the C & B.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 28, 2014, 10:16:54 PM
NCC 1701 E - Sleek and sexy. Ordinarily I'd dock it points for not looking as believable, but aesthetically it's a gorgeous ship.
NCC 1701 Refit - A nice revamp of the classic
NCC 1701 D - A stunning ship from the right angle, but a dog from the wrong one
NCC 1701 - The classic, iconic design, but very plain compared to others
NX-01 - Not a bad looking ship, especially the refit
Alternate universe - A lot of nice changes to the classic design, but the proportions are so horribly off as to have none of the balance of the original
NCC 1701 C - It was rushed, and it's kind of stubby, but it still has an endearing quality to it.
NCC 1701 B - The fugliest piece of fugly that ever fuglied. If Maggie Gyllenhaal was a spaceship, this would be it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on March 01, 2014, 09:26:51 AM
:rollin @ 1701 B
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 01, 2014, 09:38:32 AM
NCC 1701 B - The fugliest piece of fugly that ever fuglied. If Maggie Gyllenhaal was a spaceship, this would be it.

For fuck's sake, Blob, do you ever have a normal opinion on anything? :lol

Maggie Gyllenhaal is quite attractive, thank you very much. Just saw her the other day in Stranger Than Fiction.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 01, 2014, 11:06:20 AM
If you think Maggie Gyllenhaal is ugly - just google image the phrase " Jeremy Kyle guests ".


Warning : some of the people on that show absolutely 100% personify the cliche of " Brit Teeth " :lol

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 01, 2014, 06:31:18 PM
NCC 1701 B - The fugliest piece of fugly that ever fuglied. If Maggie Gyllenhaal was a spaceship, this would be it.

For fuck's sake, Blob, do you ever have a normal opinion on anything? :lol

I try my best not to! :biggrin: :lol But it's a very common opinion that she's a dog, which is why I went with it.

But just for you my friend, I will revise it to "The Enterprise B is so fugly that it should have been called a Buscemi-class ship"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on March 01, 2014, 06:33:33 PM
Can I just PLEASE give a +20 to the Maggie Gyllenhaal bashing?     I spent half of The Dark Knight trying to figure out why Bruce Wayne was dating The Elephant Man.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2014, 01:13:20 AM
I couldn't figure out why Bruce Wayne was dating the Enterprise C.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on March 02, 2014, 01:15:16 AM
Can I just PLEASE give a +20 to the Maggie Gyllenhaal bashing?     I spent half of The Dark Knight trying to figure out why Bruce Wayne was dating The Elephant Man.
She looked terrible in TDK and I don't know why. Pretty much every other thing I've seen her in, she's looked fine.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2014, 01:52:08 AM

NX-01 - Not a bad looking ship, especially the refit


There were two ?





EDIT : just googled NX01 refit...Interesting.. Merely a concept as far as I can tell ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 02, 2014, 04:19:02 AM

NX-01 - Not a bad looking ship, especially the refit


There were two ?





EDIT : just googled NX01 refit...Interesting.. Merely a concept as far as I can tell ?

It's not technically a canon ship, but it's designed by the guy who designed the NX-01 initially, and was an idea they actually wanted in the show had it continued (and was even part of the concept when it was originally designed IIRC). It's also been featured in the annual Ships of the Line calendars.
So it's not an official design, but given the lineage, I count it unless some future canon source were to override it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2014, 05:15:17 AM
It certainly looks like a stop gap between NX01 and the TOS 1701.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 02, 2014, 05:28:15 AM
That was the intention, and probably would have helped alleviate lot of the criticism they had from having to initially base the ship on the Akira class.
I liked that the NX-01 (not the refit) made its way into the desk models in Into Darkness, along with the rest.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2014, 05:30:09 AM
Pretty sure I saw the ring ship in the debris field for like a split second.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 02, 2014, 05:33:30 AM
Hadn't heard about that, but it's possible. There's also R2-D2 in the debri in both movies, I believe (definitely in STXI, and I've heard it's in ID too).

On a similar note, the Millennium Falcon makes an appearance in the Borg battle at the start of First Contact, and the Enterprise makes an appearance in Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, when Anakin and Obiwan are in the flying car thing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2014, 05:42:41 AM
Ah so AOTC has one good thing in it then ;D ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 02, 2014, 05:50:03 AM
It also has Christopher Lee, so that's TWO good things!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 02, 2014, 07:26:18 AM
Hadn't heard about that, but it's possible. There's also R2-D2 in the debri in both movies, I believe (definitely in STXI, and I've heard it's in ID too).

On a similar note, the Millennium Falcon makes an appearance in the Borg battle at the start of First Contact, and the Enterprise makes an appearance in Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, when Anakin and Obiwan are in the flying car thing.

I never knew that.  Looks like I'm pausing some DVD's tonight.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 02, 2014, 07:28:24 AM
Hadn't heard about that, but it's possible. There's also R2-D2 in the debri in both movies, I believe (definitely in STXI, and I've heard it's in ID too).

On a similar note, the Millennium Falcon makes an appearance in the Borg battle at the start of First Contact, and the Enterprise makes an appearance in Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, when Anakin and Obiwan are in the flying car thing.

I never knew that.  Looks like I'm pausing some DVD's tonight.

They're only very small in the shots, so you might just make them out. Probably easier to spot on Bluray.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 02, 2014, 07:30:49 AM
Well the Star Wars movies I only own on DVD but the Newer Treks on Blu Ray.  I just can't go back and buy every movie I own on DVD to Blu Ray.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: yorost on March 02, 2014, 09:33:00 AM
If any of you would like to take a crack at the caption game, I've got Captain Frasier Crane up for captions: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36173.msg1775132#msg1775132
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on March 06, 2014, 10:23:25 AM
Watching "Sub Rosa" this morning...   This is a big time guilty pleasure of mine, even though I think most people think it's a dumb episode...

Maybe it's because of that DAHM CAHNDLE!!!!!   :rollin    Dunnit light that cahndle, and dunnit go in that huse!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 06, 2014, 10:35:51 AM
I was okay with the concept, but a few things about the execution just didn't work for me.  Didn't Beverly make reference to how the candle had been in "the Crusher family" for generations?  I don't remember exactly how it worked, but she mentioned a family name, and how it was always the women.  The problem is that the women always takes their husband's family name, therefore it made no sense that it would follow the women of a certain family, not by name anyway.  Like I said, I don't remember how it supposedly worked, but I do remember that it couldn't work the way she explained it.

Then there was the issue with Gates McFadden's acting.  I liked her (probably more than most) and thought she was kinda pretty, but was never impressed with her acting, and I never bought that she was in love with Ronin of The Candle.  She acted weird, she got mad and defensive, but none of it worked for me because she never seemed to be in love, just acting weird, mad, and defensive.  Whacked-out Beverly I could believe; Beverly in love with the spirit living in a candle I couldn't buy.  She didn't sell it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on March 06, 2014, 10:44:55 AM
I just love where she's lit the candle and she's freaking out like the guy is crack or something....   

Reminds me of when I was a newlywed.   :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on March 08, 2014, 01:57:40 PM
Well, watched The Motion Picture last night for the first time in many years:

Many instances of several minutes going by without dialogue.
The protagonist only discharges a weapon once, and that at an inanimate object.
No punches thrown.
No sex is suggested.

This film could NEVER be made today in the sci-fi genre.

And Stephen Collins is a terrible actor. The rest I enjoyed, it was a good old-fashioned sci-fi discovery journey and I liked the lighting and colors they used. Besides Collins the acting was fine, especially by Nimoy since Spock's character arc was probably the most important.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 08, 2014, 02:24:05 PM
Decker's acting never stood out as terrible to me.

Not in a Matt Broderick way anyway.

Maybe compared to Nimoy and Kelley but not "oh that line was awful ".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 08, 2014, 02:26:10 PM
The whole Kirk-Decker dynamic didn't work to well. It's like "I know what you're trying to do here plot-wise, but it's just not working". Shatners wooden acting didn't help either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 08, 2014, 03:05:14 PM
The execution of the whole storyline was poor at best.  I was only 11 but I remember my Dad and 2 of his friends coming out of the movie saying, "WTF did we just see?"  That movie did not connect with with it's core audience.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 08, 2014, 03:16:32 PM
The whole Kirk-Decker dynamic didn't work to well. It's like "I know what you're trying to do here plot-wise, but it's just not working". Shatners wooden acting didn't help either.
Yeah, and in retrospect I think SC's acting had more to do with it. Shatner is a known quantity. He is what he is. For the dynamic they were looking for they needed Decker to be a little more pissed off. And for that matter most of Decker's other parts were pretty bland, as well. I never bought into him suddenly deciding that merging with some alien computer was what he'd always wanted more than anything else. Really, where'd that come from?


The execution of the whole storyline was poor at best.  I was only 11 but I remember my Dad and 2 of his friends coming out of the movie saying, "WTF did we just see?"  That movie did not connect with with it's core audience.
We felt the same way, but remember that what we saw way back then was the original studio release. It was re-released with some extra bits that explained a lot of things and greatly improved the story. Considering how much of a mess the original thing was (thank you Mr. Roddenberry) it's amazing it ever happened at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on March 08, 2014, 03:19:13 PM
I have a special fondness for TMP just because I feel that it was the last of the well executed NON-action sci-fi films.   (which I don't think even exist any more)

If you're a fan of sci-fi more along the lines of something like The Andromeda Strain (the original film...which I think is absolutely brilliant) then I don't see how you can't enjoy TMP.     I never thought about it at the time, because I was only 7 yrs old, but as I get older I really see more clearly what a complete game changer Star Wars was....and not always for the better.    I like that sci-fi became more action oriented...but I hate that it was to the exclusion of the old school way of doing sci-fi.   I would be so much happier if the two different genres could co-exist.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 08, 2014, 03:59:14 PM
Did they remake Andromeda Strain? I only know of the original Robert Wise version (who incidentally also directed TMP).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on March 08, 2014, 05:06:57 PM
Did they remake Andromeda Strain? I only know of the original Robert Wise version (who incidentally also directed TMP).

They made a TV mini-series...I didn't watch it.  Heard it was a lot more violent (which to me was just missing the point of the story...as per my post)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 08, 2014, 05:52:09 PM
The whole Kirk-Decker dynamic didn't work to well. It's like "I know what you're trying to do here plot-wise, but it's just not working". Shatners wooden acting didn't help either.
Yeah, and in retrospect I think SC's acting had more to do with it. Shatner is a known quantity. He is what he is. For the dynamic they were looking for they needed Decker to be a little more pissed off. And for that matter most of Decker's other parts were pretty bland, as well. I never bought into him suddenly deciding that merging with some alien computer was what he'd always wanted more than anything else. Really, where'd that come from?

Yeah, that was totally random. It especially made no sense since Decker is the captain of the Enterprise at the beginning. Had he been some middle-ranking guy who shows some inner turmoil about his true calling throughout the movie, people would have bought it. But this "yeah, I busted my ass over years to become a starship captain. But I really want to commit techno-suicide!"
The supposed love story with Ilea was somewhat better, but given the length of the movie they could have spent a lot of it on character development than on trying to be a 2001 Space Odyssey.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 08, 2014, 06:07:31 PM
I read somewhere that the TNG characters Riker and Troi were based on Decker and Ilia.  I can kinda see that.

Upon catching this movie on TV recently, I was surprised to realize that the TNG theme music is all over it, especially at the end.  I didn't even realize.  I mean, this movie came out eight years before TNG, and I never made the connection.  When TNG hit the air, I know I didn't think "Wow, that's the same music!"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 08, 2014, 06:20:12 PM
It was in reverse for me too. I had never seen TMP and when I finally saw it the TMP theme for me was the TNG theme really. Definitely weird to suddenly hear it in front of that old movie.

Regarding the Riker-Troi/Decker-Ilea thing, I don't know whether this is specifically a Roddenberry thing, but the more I have read about the movies and series, the more I got the impression that Gene did not ever want to waste a single character idea he had. Somehow in some fashion they resurfaced again, in some altered form. I believe Data came from some failed TV show of his, no?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 08, 2014, 06:28:16 PM
Also TNG plots came from aborted Star trek Phase II scripts.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 08, 2014, 06:33:24 PM
And even worse, some were just refilmed TOS episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2014, 08:22:38 PM
I read somewhere that the TNG characters Riker and Troi were based on Decker and Ilia.  I can kinda see that.

Upon catching this movie on TV recently, I was surprised to realize that the TNG theme music is all over it, especially at the end.  I didn't even realize.  I mean, this movie came out eight years before TNG, and I never made the connection.  When TNG hit the air, I know I didn't think "Wow, that's the same music!"

I saw the movies first not long before watching TNG, so it was obvious to me at the time (as it was used in all of the films scored by Goldsmith). I actually hate the TNG cut of the theme that they used on TNG.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 08, 2014, 08:45:59 PM
Err, all they're missing in the TNG cut is the beginning beats, which frankly are a bit too prog for a regular TV series. The rest is as is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 08, 2014, 08:48:53 PM
I heard a longer version of the TNG music on our local classical radio station once.  It's actually a very nice piece of music.  In the 30-second version on TV, it has to move quickly through the different themes of course, but in its "proper" form, it's more laid back.  Those majestic themes have a chance to breath and not feel so rushed.  Yeah, a lot of it was the same eight bars or four bars repeated before moving on to the next section, but there were entire sections which were cut.  In it's longer form, it sounded like an overture.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2014, 08:54:29 PM
The structure is chomped up and odd, cutting off the second half of one of my favourite bits, then the odd key shift to the tail section that doesn't usually connect up to the first half directly. They could have edited it better for the length. And they mostly used the shorter ending, occasionally using the slightly longer ending during the credits. And the performance isn't as good either. It's TV budget.

The whole thing just isn't as good as the movie version in any way. If I want to listen to it, I'll listen to a movie version. They're all good, except Nemesis.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 08, 2014, 09:08:26 PM
I still can not fathom whoever thought it would be a good idea to put a country pop song in front of ENT. It put the whole thing on the wrong foot right from the get-go.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2014, 09:31:40 PM
I think they wanted something closer to modern times, to make it more relateable, rather than the distant future feel of the other Trek series, to fit with the intro montage of exploration through the ages from the past to the future.
I'm not saying it was completely successful, although I got used to it, and even didn't mind it. It wasn't very Trekky though, and not even an original song, so I get why people hate it. They were originally going to use the music that ended up over the end credits, which would have been better.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 08, 2014, 11:42:07 PM
The song was dreadful. Shame, too, as the opening montage was really slick. I still think it's a big part of the reason the show bombed so badly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 08, 2014, 11:50:12 PM
The show bombing had a lot more to do with the show just plain sucking for the most part. It was a watered down recycling of much better Trek, so it had very little to offer that people hadn't seen before. Something as superficial as a theme song wouldn't have helped it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 09, 2014, 03:38:55 AM
While I agree about the music for ENT.  Most of the third and forth season i really liked but of course UPN started to move the TV show all over the place time and day wise knowing it was the end.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 09, 2014, 03:54:14 AM
The 3rd and 4th seasons were definitely a huge departure from the first two seasons. I think the 3rd season is overall great, although I hate the 4th season overall unlike most Enterprise fans. Too much forced fanwank.
The mirror universe episodes were good though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 09, 2014, 06:06:11 AM
My all time favourite Star Trek Score is for Wrath Of Khan.


I also really like the "new" star trek theme from the JJ Abrams movies : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMu5jP2-c5U
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 09, 2014, 06:16:23 AM
I absolutely love Giacchino's score for STXI, including his new theme (great choice to link btw). I don't have the one for ID yet, as when I checked, they hadn't released the complete edition yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 09, 2014, 06:25:38 AM
I absolutely love Giacchino's score for STXI, including his new theme (great choice to link btw). I don't have the one for ID yet, as when I checked, they hadn't released the complete edition yet.

Into Darkness Score is on Spotify but I don't know if that's what you are after.

Wrath Of Khan score gives me goosebumps everytime. Perfect score for a perfect film.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 09, 2014, 06:37:13 AM
I absolutely love Giacchino's score for STXI, including his new theme (great choice to link btw). I don't have the one for ID yet, as when I checked, they hadn't released the complete edition yet.

Into Darkness Score is on Spotify but I don't know if that's what you are after.

Wrath Of Khan score gives me goosebumps everytime. Perfect score for a perfect film.

I can't find anything on Spotify for Into Darkness. Link?
I haven't listened to the TWOK soundtrack on its own, but I always enjoy it when watching the movie. Still, I think I prefer some of the Goldsmith stuff, especially First Contact.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 09, 2014, 06:40:28 AM
https://open.spotify.com/album/3tqUA0lolzsjNcmuXL5R0L  ??
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 09, 2014, 06:42:07 AM
Thanks. It's completely greyed out for me and won't let me play it, so maybe the availability is limited by country? It would explain why I couldn't find it in my search though.
And either way, it's the shorter soundtrack. I like to have the full soundtrack, like the Deluxe Edition of the STXI one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 09, 2014, 06:44:55 AM
 :police: Thou Shalt Not Enjoy Music For Which Thou Hast tried To Enjoy Legally  !!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 09, 2014, 10:18:12 AM
The 3rd and 4th seasons were definitely a huge departure from the first two seasons. I think the 3rd season is overall great, although I hate the 4th season overall unlike most Enterprise fans. Too much forced fanwank.
The mirror universe episodes were good though.
I agree with you about the 4th season, which I believe we've discussed before. I actually didn't have much of a problem with 1 and 2, though. Some of the episodes sucked, just like any ST series, but some were pretty good. And while the Xindi storyline was entertaining, the trade off was the lack of prequel stuff that made the first 2 seasons interesting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 09, 2014, 12:53:41 PM
I was anyways bummed that the temporal war thing didn't turn out better. What a great concept.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 09, 2014, 12:56:42 PM
I was bummed that it didn't turn out even halfway decent. Poorly executed all the way around, and the weaker episodes of the first three seasons, frankly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 09, 2014, 01:27:31 PM
I may be wrong but I think they found out during the 4th season that it would be their last and the writers had to scramble to finish off the storyline.  That always tends to make every plot line seems rushed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 09, 2014, 09:09:48 PM
The 3rd and 4th seasons were definitely a huge departure from the first two seasons. I think the 3rd season is overall great, although I hate the 4th season overall unlike most Enterprise fans. Too much forced fanwank.
The mirror universe episodes were good though.
I agree with you about the 4th season, which I believe we've discussed before. I actually didn't have much of a problem with 1 and 2, though. Some of the episodes sucked, just like any ST series, but some were pretty good. And while the Xindi storyline was entertaining, the trade off was the lack of prequel stuff that made the first 2 seasons interesting.

I didn't have a problem with the first 2 seasons either, but nor did they really offer much compared to other Trek. The characters weren't very interesting or charismatic even for Trek standards, and the stories were uninspired. It wasn't until S3/4 that it felt like they were trying to be somewhat adventurous. But I find all of it at least watchable.

IIRC, the whole temporal war thing was shoehorned in there by the execs, so it was done kind of half-assed. I thought some of the episodes dealing with the temporal war were really good, and the others weren't too bad from what I remember. The problem was that they never really committed to it. They either needed to make it a more prominent story arc, or just ditch it altogether.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on March 09, 2014, 11:31:15 PM
Just (re) starting to make my way through Enterprise, cuz I never watched it in the first place.  Watched the Andorian Incident and Breaking the Ice. 

Andorian ... wasn't too hard to predict what they were gonna find in the cattacombs.  And like the group of monks along with Archer/Tripp couldn't over-power those four numbskulls.

Breaking the Ince... WTF was with the "video" back home scene?  Like, in 200 years, people don't know how a self contained vessel takes care of shit?  Did other naval vessels (subs, air craft carriers...) go extinct or something.  The number of  ::) at that scene.

Then I flipped over to (rewatch) Boston Legal (starting right at the beginning... S1E01).  Enterprise better pick up, or it's gonna lose out to Denny and Alan real quick.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 09, 2014, 11:36:17 PM
Just (re) starting to make my way through Enterprise, cuz I never watched it in the first place.  Watched the Andorian Incident and Breaking the Ice. 

Andorian ... wasn't too hard to predict what they were gonna find in the cattacombs.  And like the group of monks along with Archer/Tripp couldn't over-power those four numbskulls.

Breaking the Ince... WTF was with the "video" back home scene?  Like, in 200 years, people don't know how a self contained vessel takes care of shit?  Did other naval vessels (subs, air craft carriers...) go extinct or something.  The number of  ::) at that scene.

Then I flipped over to (rewatch) Boston Legal (starting right at the beginning... S1E01).  Enterprise better pick up, or it's gonna lose out to Denny and Alan real quick.


Funny you mention Boston Legal, as I just got S1 cheap on the weekend to start watching through. I never saw an episode, only catching bits here and there, but with old man Shatner playing the part of Shatner, it's a sure thing. :lol

To quote 30 Rock, "I watched Boston Legal 9 times before I realized it wasn't a new Star Trek."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MinistryOfLostSouls on March 09, 2014, 11:48:14 PM
One word: Millennium Falcon
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 10, 2014, 01:15:26 AM
That's actually two words, and I don't know how it relates to the discussion.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MinistryOfLostSouls on March 10, 2014, 01:19:46 AM
That's actually two words, and I don't know how it relates to the discussion.

It's what Data should call his pet bird if he ever gets one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 10, 2014, 03:55:38 AM
One word: Millennium Falcon

Picard's Enterprise could kick it's tiny arse.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 10, 2014, 08:28:53 AM
Just (re) starting to make my way through Enterprise, cuz I never watched it in the first place.  Watched the Andorian Incident and Breaking the Ice. 

Andorian ... wasn't too hard to predict what they were gonna find in the cattacombs.  And like the group of monks along with Archer/Tripp couldn't over-power those four numbskulls.

Breaking the Ince... WTF was with the "video" back home scene?  Like, in 200 years, people don't know how a self contained vessel takes care of shit?  Did other naval vessels (subs, air craft carriers...) go extinct or something.  The number of  ::) at that scene.

Then I flipped over to (rewatch) Boston Legal (starting right at the beginning... S1E01).  Enterprise better pick up, or it's gonna lose out to Denny and Alan real quick.
If you're going to be that nit-picky about flaws that pop up in every ST series you're never going to like ENT. In fact, I can already predict that you're never going to like it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on March 10, 2014, 10:28:58 AM
I usually go into things wanting to enjoy them (hell, I loved the movie Battleship!  :lol).  Had no idea that those two things would be considered 'nit picking'.  I wouldn't call what I pointed out to be 'flaws', just observations that made me lol on how 'realistic' the scenario was.  And for the record, I love(d) TNG, all the movies (despite THEIR obvious flaws) and enjoyed the first few seasons of DS9.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 10, 2014, 11:04:59 AM
That's cool, and if you're keeping an open mind that's great. Just seems like those are odd things to single out. Third graders still ask shuttle astronauts how they, er, do their business, and the Enterprise crew actually were doing something untried at that point. As for the Andorians, I had no problem with any of it. To address your point, just because the monks were Vulcans didn't mean that they were Shaolin badasses. They were pacifists and as such the the 3 crewmembers were best served not starting any shit. In fact, they were probably far more aggressive than was tactically sound. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 10, 2014, 11:11:21 AM
Just had a thought that the production design on The Motion Picture set the template for the first 6 Trek Movies.

Also - in the next movie - i'd like to see more of the Enterprise interior like Captain's quarters etc.

Plus a new Enterprise might be nice at the end of the third movie.

Make it look a little more like the Motion Picture Enterprise. Straighten the Nacelles and pylons out a bit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on March 10, 2014, 11:56:05 AM
To address your point, just because the monks were Vulcans didn't mean that they were Shaolin badasses. They were pacifists and as such the the 3 crewmembers were best served not starting any shit. In fact, they were probably far more aggressive than was tactically sound.

I hear you there, and you're right.  However, there was one scene towards the end where one 'blue-skin' was locked in the room with all the monks and Archer/Trip.... and then the dude turns his back on Archer/Trip to 'hit' on T'Pol.  As a guard of prisoners, he left himself very open to being incapacitated.  The overall story was fine/good, but there were a few minor things that were kinda sloppy and could've easily been cleaned up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MinistryOfLostSouls on March 10, 2014, 12:09:27 PM
One word: Millennium Falcon

Picard's Enterprise could kick it's tiny arse.

Whoa whoa whoa there!  It's the ship that made the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 10, 2014, 12:32:16 PM
Yeah well I can run a mile in just under a mile and a half :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 10, 2014, 12:37:28 PM
One word: Millennium Falcon

Picard's Enterprise could kick it's tiny arse.

Whoa whoa whoa there!  It the ship that made the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs!

Given how parsecs are a measure of distance, I always assumed that the Kessel run is a race with a fixed amount of time, and people try to cover the most distance. So, covering less than 12 parsecs tells actually tells you how *shitty* the Millenium Falcon is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 10, 2014, 12:41:48 PM
What it really tells you is how shitty George's writing is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MinistryOfLostSouls on March 10, 2014, 12:45:57 PM
One word: Millennium Falcon

Picard's Enterprise could kick it's tiny arse.

Whoa whoa whoa there!  It the ship that made the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs!

Given how parsecs are a measure of distance, I always assumed that the Kessel run is a race with a fixed amount of time, and people try to cover the most distance. So, covering less than 12 parsecs tells actually tells you how *shitty* the Millenium Falcon is.

The books went on to explain that The Kessel Run is goes through a region with a bunch of black holes, so Solo was making the run and then flew slightly into the gravity well, or event horizon or whatever it is, and then warped space time to make it in a shorter distance.  The ship is so fast it can defy the laws of physics, son! 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 10, 2014, 01:06:43 PM
Too bad that going close to an event horizon slows down his own time, which means he would have lost time doing so.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 10, 2014, 01:21:36 PM
There have been a number of "explanations" for that line that I've read over the years.  One pretty much agree with you, Kotowboy, that it just shows that Lucas didn't know WTF he was talking about and was trying to sound cool.

Another is kinda the opposite of your theory, Rumby.  The Kessel Run is long, something of a space marathon, but it's point-to-point and there is no fixed route.  Therefore, a skilled pilot will choose a course which takes advantage of wormholes and gravitational slingslots in order to shorten the distance and/or travel time.  Making the run in less than a certain distance makes no sense at face value, but is actually a testament to Han Solo's skill as a hyperspace pilot.



Shit, ninja'd big time.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 10, 2014, 01:34:22 PM
Orbert's second option is what I always figured, although for it to be a testament to how fast the ship is (which it was) it would have to involve some gravitational phenomenon.

But yeah, Lucas sucks.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MinistryOfLostSouls on March 10, 2014, 01:53:59 PM
There have been a number of "explanations" for that line that I've read over the years.  One pretty much agree with you, Kotowboy, that it just shows that Lucas didn't know WTF he was talking about and was trying to sound cool.

Another is kinda the opposite of your theory, Rumby.  The Kessel Run is long, something of a space marathon, but it's point-to-point and there is no fixed route.  Therefore, a skilled pilot will choose a course which takes advantage of wormholes and gravitational slingslots in order to shorten the distance and/or travel time.  Making the run in less than a certain distance makes no sense at face value, but is actually a testament to Han Solo's skill as a hyperspace pilot.



Shit, ninja'd big time.  Oh well.

See: Han Solo Trilogy  - Star Wars Extended Universe - The slingshot theory is canon.

The real question here is could Mr. Sulu do that?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 10, 2014, 01:58:16 PM
Err, IIRC it was Sulu who steered the Klingon ship so close to the sun that it went back in time. So, Sulu could have fucking finished the race before it even began! And won a sword fight while doing so (in the straight and gay sense of that term)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MinistryOfLostSouls on March 10, 2014, 02:15:01 PM
Err, IIRC it was Sulu who steered the Klingon ship so close to the sun that it went back in time. So, Sulu could have fucking finished the race before it even began! And won a sword fight while doing so (in the straight and gay sense of that term)

Oh myyy
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 10, 2014, 09:01:32 PM
There have been a number of "explanations" for that line that I've read over the years.  One pretty much agree with you, Kotowboy, that it just shows that Lucas didn't know WTF he was talking about and was trying to sound cool.

Another is kinda the opposite of your theory, Rumby.  The Kessel Run is long, something of a space marathon, but it's point-to-point and there is no fixed route.  Therefore, a skilled pilot will choose a course which takes advantage of wormholes and gravitational slingslots in order to shorten the distance and/or travel time.  Making the run in less than a certain distance makes no sense at face value, but is actually a testament to Han Solo's skill as a hyperspace pilot.



Shit, ninja'd big time.  Oh well.

See: Han Solo Trilogy  - Star Wars Extended Universe - The slingshot theory is canon.
I disagree.  If it didn't happen on film, it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 10, 2014, 09:09:33 PM
Yeah, that's where I am, too.  I know Lucas considers the books canon as well, but to me that doesn't make any sense.  Any schmuck can write a book set in the Star Wars Extended Universe, and even if Lucas supposedly has to okay each one, I'd bet real money that he doesn't read every one of them.

Nothing personal, MOLS, but the number of people who read the books is a tiny, tiny percentage of people who've seen the movies.  For enlightenment and perspective, they're fine, but as "proof" because the books are supposedly canonical just seems wrong.  And I say that given that you're actually supporting my position.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on March 10, 2014, 09:21:38 PM
Well...I don't think he said specifically that the books WERE canon.   It more ambiguous than that... something like, "...we won't call it 'not canon'....until we come up with something else..."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MinistryOfLostSouls on March 10, 2014, 10:12:41 PM
Yeah, that's where I am, too.  I know Lucas considers the books canon as well, but to me that doesn't make any sense.  Any schmuck can write a book set in the Star Wars Extended Universe, and even if Lucas supposedly has to okay each one, I'd bet real money that he doesn't read every one of them.

Nothing personal, MOLS, but the number of people who read the books is a tiny, tiny percentage of people who've seen the movies.  For enlightenment and perspective, they're fine, but as "proof" because the books are supposedly canonical just seems wrong.  And I say that given that you're actually supporting my position.

I work all over the country and I've see the EU books at every Walmart in The US, at least the most recent ones.  I don't know how popular they are.  Regardless if they re considered canon or not JJ is going to fuck them up anyway.  Though, I loved the second new Star Trek movie.  It's like Hollywood made bigger Hollywood out of what was already big Hollywood.  I love it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 11, 2014, 05:26:56 AM
SO - how about that Star Trek ?

 :biggrin: :biggrin:


I wish that All Good Things was a movie instead of Insurrection.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 11, 2014, 05:29:49 AM
SO - how about that Star Trek ?

 :biggrin: :biggrin:


I wish that All Good Things was a movie instead of Nemesis.

FTFY. :biggrin:

Instead of being a final episode, it could be the final movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on March 11, 2014, 07:21:18 AM
Funny... I STILL haven't watched Insurrection.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on March 11, 2014, 09:07:45 AM
Funny... I STILL haven't watched Insurrection.

Blob's fix would be mine as well.   I absolutely LOVE Insurrection.   Nemesis OTOH is complete and utter bile.    I actually own it as part of a boxed set, but I've only seen it once since I saw it in the theater...and it was still the worst ST movie I've ever seen.

Insurrection is actually my favorite.   It is *a bit* more like an episode than a movie...but there are some themes that resonate with me personally, so I always really enjoy it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 11, 2014, 09:35:51 AM
Yeah, it definitely feels more like a really long episode, in a good way. Some interesting culture that has one key aspect of humanity deactivated (mortality), and some evil guys who actually have a reason to be evil.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 11, 2014, 09:41:13 AM
Yeah, it definitely feels more like a really long episode, in a good way.

I see that raised often as a criticism, but I also think it's a good thing. It's not one of my favourite Trek movies, but I do still quite like it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on March 15, 2014, 09:09:51 AM
Is it bad that, just yesterday, I found out that the bad guy in Nemesis is Bane in Batman? I feel like I'm a few years behind here.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 15, 2014, 09:15:40 AM
I see so many Trek related things on the net that I always knew that the guy playing Bane was the same guy from Nemesis. And I've never seen the Batman movie, so he's still just the dude from Nemesis to me.

If it makes you feel better though, nobody will fault you for disregarding Nemesis. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on March 15, 2014, 09:35:02 AM
LOL well it was on BBCA last night, so I watched it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 15, 2014, 10:17:18 AM
I see so many Trek related things on the net that I always knew that the guy playing Bane was the same guy from Nemesis. And I've never seen the Batman movie, so he's still just the dude from Nemesis to me.

If it makes you feel better though, nobody will fault you for disregarding Nemesis. :P

That's because you're all knowing sir.

 But really, when I saw Nemesis in the theaters I didn't know who Tom Hardy was.  Hell, in Inception I didn't know him and when they announced him as the guy playing Bane I went back and watched Inception.  Only in reruns of Nemesis did I put it together after Hardy's career took off.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 15, 2014, 11:22:32 AM
Yeah when i found out that The Forger in Inception was Tom Hardy I could hardly believe it.

Shinzon, The Forger & Bane are all so different.



EDIT  speaking of Inception - I'm surprised that Eames is not a Doctor. :p. maybe that would be a bit too On The Nose for Chris Nolan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 25, 2014, 09:29:11 AM
Klingon Warnog Beer is coming (https://www.trektoday.com/content/2014/03/klingon-warnog-beer/)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 25, 2014, 09:36:50 AM
The Facebook page has been pimping this, and it looks so lame. Come on, at least make it blood wine! This beer would be beneath a Klingon, except maybe Worf. It's just a cheap cash-in.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 25, 2014, 09:39:57 AM
Yes, of course it is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on March 25, 2014, 10:33:08 AM
Prune juice or GTFO.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on March 25, 2014, 01:24:28 PM
Prune juice or GTFO.

A warrior's drink.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on March 25, 2014, 01:29:57 PM
About 2/3 through my TNG watch-through. I'll be tackling DS9 and Voyager next.

Just began a favorite episode of mine:

(https://i.imgur.com/C7jAYXI.png?1?4178)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 25, 2014, 01:33:13 PM
I think TNG holds up really well for a sci-fi show that started in the latter half of the 80s.

The first season shows it's age the most with its synthy score and camera work but season 2 onwards improves dramatically.

Plus in Season one - you can tell nobody was really trying. It was only when the show improved in Season 2 they all started acting a bit better :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on March 25, 2014, 02:11:07 PM
I'd say your insight is pretty spot-on! Agree here.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 25, 2014, 03:05:40 PM
Wait a minute, they were actually trying to act?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 25, 2014, 03:06:28 PM
Here comes the " none of TNG could act " line.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 25, 2014, 03:25:14 PM
Nah, my criticism of TNG is that they're all awful characters. Bad acting is a hallmark of all of the ST series, and my favorite of them (DS9) probably has the worst acting of all. It just rarely makes any difference since they invent their characters anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 25, 2014, 04:30:35 PM
I'd say TNG had the best acting overall.

Stewart. Frakes. Burton. The best 3 in my book

Then Spiner and Dorn but only playing their primary characters.

But that's been discussed already.

And I'd take Wes Crusher over Jake Sisko any day.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 25, 2014, 04:54:09 PM
Wes was more a victim of Roddenberry's horrible vision of the future than anything else. The problem with all of them was that they were supposed to be flawless paragons of humanity, which had the effect of making them completely inhuman. If Wesley had ever acted like an obnoxious teenager it might have been better, but in GR's world where nobody is allowed to have faults and tension isn't allowed he was just whiny and boring. Calling Beverly a cow just once probably would have made him a perfectly decent character.

Anyhoo, my point here was that the reason the second season was better wasn't because they started trying, but because they had properly formed their characters. You spend the first season putting together who you're playing, take a nice long vacation, and then when you get back it's to an already established persona of your own making.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 25, 2014, 04:59:38 PM
The production was different too. The ship was lit differently. The 80s synthesiser score was out and - yes - everyone seemed more into it.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on March 25, 2014, 05:36:49 PM
The production was different too. The ship was lit differently. The 80s synthesiser score was out and - yes - everyone seemed more into it.
The improvements in the writing helped a bit too. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 25, 2014, 06:35:50 PM
Speaking of lighting - I  :heart the cinematography in Generations.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 25, 2014, 10:34:57 PM
Speaking of lighting - I  :heart the cinematography in Generations.

Those Enterprise D interiors never looked better. The warm exterior lighting looked much nicer than the cold interior lighting they usually had to use.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 26, 2014, 07:11:02 AM
Had to use?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 26, 2014, 07:12:30 AM
I just meant with the limitations of pumping out a TV show, as opposed to a movie where they could take the time to light it awesomely.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 26, 2014, 07:39:51 AM
Also they added new terminals along the side of the bridge which I didn't notice for a while.

Generations feels like a warm film to me. The Enterprise lighting - The firey Nexus. Veridian III.

And First Contact feels really cold for some reason. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 26, 2014, 07:42:25 AM
First Contact has the ship largely taken over by the Borg, plus a bleak Earth ravaged by war. I think that's probably why it was colder.
Generations had a lot of scenes with the Enterprise parked next to a star, then a lot of scenes on a hot desert planet. Makes sense that it seemed warm!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 26, 2014, 07:43:58 AM
Warm lighting. Also warm story wise. There's a lot of emotion in Generations. FC is mostly just Die Hard in space.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 26, 2014, 07:49:07 AM
I obviously am not saying that I think Frakes isn't a good director because he clearly is - but his two trek films are my two least favourite TNG movies.

I know everyone puts FC up there with Khan and Country ( :P ) - but I find it quite boring actually.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 26, 2014, 07:52:09 AM
I definitely put FC up there with TWOK, and above TUC. It's easily my 2nd or 3rd favourite Trek movie. And anything is better than Nemesis. At the very least Frakes could have done better than that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 26, 2014, 07:53:40 AM
You are in the minority Kotowboy sir!   BBC America has been playing a ton of TNG so I got to see on of my favorite episodes, "Déjà Q.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 26, 2014, 08:19:51 AM
TOS Movies:
 Khan > Country > Voyage > Motion > Spock > Frontier

TNG Movies:

Gen > FC > Nemesis > Insurrection. [ Despite finding FC a bit boring compared to Gen - I do prefer it to Nemesis sorry Jammindude. ]

JJ Movies:

2009 = Into Darkness. I still can't decide which I like more.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 26, 2014, 08:22:46 AM
I'll play along. :biggrin:

TOS:
TWOK > TVH > TUC > TFF = TSFS > TMP

TNG:
FC > Gen > (or maybe =) Insurrection > Nemesis

JJ:
2009 > ID

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 26, 2014, 08:30:07 AM
You think that The Motion Picture is worse than Final Frontier ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 26, 2014, 08:33:46 AM
You think that The Motion Picture is worse than Final Frontier ?

I think that TFF is so bad that it's awesome. :lol To me it most closely captures the spirit of TOS, and I find it highly enjoyable for the camp value.
TMP isn't terrible, but it's just so damn boring. Overly drawn out with nothing happening for the most part, with little redeeming value.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 26, 2014, 08:35:15 AM
:emo: i don't actually find TMP boring at all.


I find Insurrection more boring than TMP in all honesty.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 26, 2014, 08:38:01 AM
I find Insurrection much more enjoyable. Some really nice character moments, and things actually happen.

If TMP isn't boring, I honestly don't know what is. That wormhole scene actually manages to slow down time to a crawl to the point where I want the pain to end. :lol It would have worked as an episode, but it failed as a movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 26, 2014, 09:46:20 AM
I just meant with the limitations of pumping out a TV show, as opposed to a movie where they could take the time to light it awesomely.

Ah, got it.  I thought maybe it was because of the limitations of the cheap videotape they used or something like that.

I think that TFF is so bad that it's awesome. :lol To me it most closely captures the spirit of TOS, and I find it highly enjoyable for the camp value.

Yes!  It's actually one of my favorites, because it's fun (and also because I don't really think it's that bad).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 26, 2014, 09:51:19 AM
Recently watched the first two episodes of DS9-7. While I agree Ezri was a lousy character, she actually started off really interestingly. When she was a ditzy, dumb kid who couldn't figure out what the hell was going on she was a perfectly good character. I think they developed her too fast so that she became one of the gang too quickly, and she just wasn't very interesting as part of the core group. They should have kept her clueless for a while, as the idea of a girl who never wanted to be joined and had no preparation whatsoever for it is a damn fined idea.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 26, 2014, 09:54:44 AM
I just meant with the limitations of pumping out a TV show, as opposed to a movie where they could take the time to light it awesomely.

Ah, got it.  I thought maybe it was because of the limitations of the cheap videotape they used or something like that.

It was all shot on 35mm film, so that shouldn't have been a problem even after being converted to tape. But obviously the whole process was never going to look as good as a movie that was edited on film too, so maybe that was a factor too.
If you compare the old DVD versions of TNG (which are from the tapes) to the remastered TNG rescanned from film, there's a huge difference.


I think that TFF is so bad that it's awesome. :lol To me it most closely captures the spirit of TOS, and I find it highly enjoyable for the camp value.

Yes!  It's actually one of my favorites, because it's fun (and also because I don't really think it's that bad).

Well that makes a whole two of us then. :lol Glad to be in good company at least.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 26, 2014, 09:58:50 AM
:tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 26, 2014, 10:03:51 AM
The new Blu Ray TNG remasters look stunning.

If I ever get a Blu Ray player - TNG will be the first thing i'd get.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 26, 2014, 10:09:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYfBFXNg4iQ#t=113

Check out the scene, but switch off the sound. She is really just speaking out the English text, and then they dubbed it with Vulcan. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 26, 2014, 10:20:04 AM
That's a great scene, though.  First time we watched it with our son, he was maybe five, and when she dropped it on the ground, I thought it was awesome.  My son did, too, but for different reasons.  "Ha ha, she left it, so now he gets it anyway."  I had to figure out a way to explain to him that yes, he could wear it (and what is it, anyway, some kind of necklace?) but it would have no meaning because he hadn't earned it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on March 28, 2014, 04:00:25 PM
I'm watching Face of the Enemy, where Troi wakes up as a Romulan Major. I've got to say I'm very impressed with the sound dampening the Romulan quarters have, as she is currently yelling at the top of her lungs to her accomplice that she is a Romulan imposter. So far nobody in the hallway or next room over has heard.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 28, 2014, 04:12:35 PM
Some of my fave TNG eps are the ones with messed up reality or they "go dark" like Where Silence Has Lease or Frame Of Mind.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on March 28, 2014, 04:14:06 PM
Frame of Mind is definitely one of my favorites. Despite watching it numerous times, I still can't fully discern what is reality and what is Riker's imagination.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 28, 2014, 04:42:16 PM
I'm watching Face of the Enemy, where Troi wakes up as a Romulan Major. I've got to say I'm very impressed with the sound dampening the Romulan quarters have, as she is currently yelling at the top of her lungs to her accomplice that she is a Romulan imposter. So far nobody in the hallway or next room over has heard.
In space, no one can hear you whine.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 28, 2014, 05:20:22 PM
Frame of Mind is definitely one of my favorites. Despite watching it numerous times, I still can't fully discern what is reality and what is Riker's imagination.
I assumed the entire thing was one big nightmare because he wakes up right at the end on a table ? I thought he'd been under the entire time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on March 28, 2014, 05:55:02 PM
I'm watching Face of the Enemy, where Troi wakes up as a Romulan Major. I've got to say I'm very impressed with the sound dampening the Romulan quarters have, as she is currently yelling at the top of her lungs to her accomplice that she is a Romulan imposter. So far nobody in the hallway or next room over has heard.
In space, no one can hear you whine.

 :rollin

Very apt summation of TNG

Frame of Mind is definitely one of my favorites. Despite watching it numerous times, I still can't fully discern what is reality and what is Riker's imagination.
I assumed the entire thing was one big nightmare because he wakes up right at the end on a table ? I thought he'd been under the entire time.

I always thought they were mixed and alternated between reality and imagination. It's coming up soon in my watch-through so I'll pay really close attention to it.


EDIT: Currently watching Tapestry. Why are a bunch of Starfleet officers just standing around watching from the background as Picard gets stabbed through the heart? What a bunch of useless pussies who don't deserve to wear that uniform.

I love to bitch about TNG.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 28, 2014, 10:11:15 PM
I love to bitch about TNG.

I shall call you El Barto 2.0
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_1231_1356978588.jpeg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 28, 2014, 10:34:19 PM
EDIT: Currently watching Tapestry. Why are a bunch of Starfleet officers just standing around watching from the background as Picard gets stabbed through the heart? What a bunch of useless pussies who don't deserve to wear that uniform.
It's because they're all enlightened and know that violence is never the solution. Better to go back to your ship and cry to your counselor about how awful a place the universe can be. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 29, 2014, 05:11:50 AM
TNG is the best Star Trek series hands down.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 29, 2014, 05:26:48 AM
TNG is the best Star Trek series hands down.

I'd have to give that honour to DS9 overall. The general opinion among fans these days is between those two though (maybe TOS, although that seems to mostly be the much older fans).
The main thing with TNG for me is that it simply took a while to find its feet. Those first two seasons weren't that great. The first two seasons of DS9 were its weakest too, but I thought it still got off to a much stronger start. Actually, the first two seasons of every Trek series were distinctly the weakest, aside from TOS, which was pretty consistent throughout.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 29, 2014, 05:51:33 AM
I cast a vote for DS9 myself.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 29, 2014, 06:05:40 AM
I like DS9 but imo there were way more annoying characters on it than TNG.

Wes > Jake

Picard > Sisko

The best thing about DS9 was the relationship between Odo and Quark.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 29, 2014, 06:11:23 AM
I like DS9 but imo there were way more annoying characters on it than TNG.

Wes > Jake

Picard > Sisko

The best thing about DS9 was the relationship between Odo and Quark.

Wesley better than Jake? What the what! Wesley was the worst, and Jake was downright tolerable for a kid actor too. He even had a few good episodes when teamed up with Nog.
I do prefer Picard, but Sisko was pretty damn awesome too. If I was doing a direct cast comparison, I think DS9 would overall win, although both were good casts.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 29, 2014, 06:15:35 AM
I couldn't stand either Jake or Nog.

Q was back to being annoying in DS9 too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 29, 2014, 06:18:51 AM
Q was always annoying imo, he was just ever so slightly less annoying on TNG. I always liked John De Lancie though, just not the writing.

If you can't stand Jake, I don't know how you can stand Wesley Wheaton.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 29, 2014, 06:25:21 AM
But in TNG - Q had an arc.

In farpoint he was just a God Bully - then he got interested in Picard - he started becoming less of a bully and more about helping the crew get enlightened.

In All Good Things he helps Picard save the universe.

In DS9 he's just back to being annoying Q again.


But yeah - blame the writers not De Lancie as he played that part perfectly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 29, 2014, 06:36:49 AM
But didn't Q create the situation in the first place in All Good Things? Been a while since I've seen it, but I loved that episode regardless, so it doesn't really matter. But I didn't really consider it an arc. Just a bit of progression in their relationship.
I mostly never liked how they dealt with the concept of omnipotence.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 29, 2014, 07:40:30 AM
A farm in Texas where all the Q hang out and play board games :lol


I like that episode - I think it's called " The Dauphin " ? I may be wrong. Where they find an inhabitable planet with one casino at the centre of a storm and they have to re-enact

the book in order to leave.


EDIT :just looked it up and it's The Royale.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on March 29, 2014, 07:41:39 AM
But didn't Q create the situation in the first place in All Good Things? Been a while since I've seen it, but I loved that episode regardless, so it doesn't really matter. But I didn't really consider it an arc. Just a bit of progression in their relationship.
I mostly never liked how they dealt with the concept of omnipotence.

Yeah, Q essentially created the crisis in All Good Things.  If he hadn't told all three Picards of the 'anomoly' in the Devron system, then all three Enterprises would've never done the inverse tachyon pulses, thus creating the anomoly that travels back in time.  That always bugged me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 29, 2014, 07:42:35 AM
Either way - I thought Q did it to give Picard a greater understanding of the universe and to open his mind slightly to what is to come.

I never thought he did it just to be a dick.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 29, 2014, 07:45:15 AM
Wikipedia article on " The Royale " :

Quote
The episode was written by Tracy Tormé under the pseudonym of Keith Mills. Tormé had his name removed from the credits after he became unsatisfied with rewrites. His original idea was a surreal nightmare about an astronaut stuck forever in his most pleasant memory.[1]

That would have been interesting. I always wished Trek could go a bit dark from time to time.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 29, 2014, 07:50:57 AM
They did, from time to time.  The aforementioned "Frame of Mind" is a good example.  Also, the silly the one where Deanna is having nightmares ("one moon circles") and there's another nightmare one where it turns out they're all being experimented on in their sleep by aliens or something.

But yeah, it seemed like they just wanted to keep things light for the most part.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 29, 2014, 09:26:04 AM
Wesley better than Jake? What the what! Wesley was the worst, and Jake was downright tolerable for a kid actor too. He even had a few good episodes when teamed up with Nog.
I do prefer Picard, but Sisko was pretty damn awesome too. If I was doing a direct cast comparison, I think DS9 would overall win, although both were good casts.
If we're talking about the quality of acting, then TNG wins hands down. Sisko was among the worst of the actors, and he was up against a very good one. If we're talking about the quality of characters, we're talking about the best group of the series vs the worst group of the series. The circumstances of DS9 actually allowed their crew to act like humans, unlike the other series (save for ENT).  TNG was the pinnacle of the lifeless avatar characterizations.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on March 29, 2014, 09:31:57 AM
The new Blu Ray TNG remasters look stunning.

If I ever get a Blu Ray player - TNG will be the first thing i'd get.
I'm pretty impressed so far (I've only watched a few episodes). For a show that's over twenty years old, they really did a good job cleaning it up and making it look good. If they ever do this to DS9, I'll be very tempted to get the entire series as opposed to just a season or two. My wallet will hate me though.

I cast a vote for DS9 myself.
Yeah, DS9's easily my favorite.

I don't hate Wesley as much as other people do, but I still don't think he holds a candle to Jake.  He was a decent character once the writers finally managed to inject a bit of character into him other than the 'know-it-all boy wonder.' Still, I never really understood the vociferous hate that he received, but then I didn't start watching TNG religiously until near the end and so I didn't see much of the first two seasons until much, much later. In season 3 and onward he's less the boy wonder and more just a smart crew member who happens to be a kid, but in seasons 1 and 2 (especially season 1), he's an irritating little prick who's right most of the time because the writers wanted him to be. For someone who started watching when the show was new, I guess I could see how those first two seasons might forever taint his character.

Jake was just a regular kid and I thought his relationship with Ben was one of the highlights of the series. A father and son relationship that felt real and wasn't all saccharine sweetness. Plus, he actually had some good episodes that focused on him whereas most of the Wesley-centric episodes tended to suck or (at best) were semi-tolerable.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 29, 2014, 11:00:25 AM
I don't hate Wesley as much as other people do, but I still don't think he holds a candle to Jake.  He was a decent character once the writers finally managed to inject a bit of character into him other than the 'know-it-all boy wonder.' Still, I never really understood the vociferous hate that he received, but then I didn't start watching TNG religiously until near the end and so I didn't see much of the first two seasons until much, much later. In season 3 and onward he's less the boy wonder and more just a smart crew member who happens to be a kid, but in seasons 1 and 2 (especially season 1), he's an irritating little prick who's right most of the time because the writers wanted him to be. For someone who started watching when the show was new, I guess I could see how those first two seasons might forever taint his character.
Here's what I think people often overlook about old bastards such as myself. I remember when TNG was new. I excitedly watched the pilot back when I was a sophomore in HS. We had all grown up on TOS, where there was some darkness and the characters had, well, character. Kirk was a great captain who wanted to get laid (a lot) and hit people. He had good friends who were immensely competent and yet not afraid to tell him if he was full of shit to the extent that they'd fight over things. In other words, real people. Then TNG comes out and it's the completely opposite, thanks to Roddenberry's insistence that humanity has evolved to a point where they're far superior to all of us and smug about it. That's not what we wanted to see. It wasn't awful when it was actually being science fiction-y, but it wasn't really ST, either. Wesley was pretty much the personification of everything that was annoying about it. So what, now humanity has evovled to the point where even 15 year olds are idealized paragons of perfection and not obnoxious assholes? Sounds awful. Also, they had a tendency to use him in a "afterschool special" capacity, where they'd lecture people about grave social issues with Wesley and the youth stand in.

Quote
"Wesley, on my home world, there was so much poverty and violence that for some people, the only escape was through drugs."
"How can a chemical substance provide an escape?"
"It doesn't. But it makes you think it does."

    - Tasha Yar and Wesley Crusher, discussing drug addiction
Jesus Christ, really?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 29, 2014, 11:17:09 AM
They did, from time to time.  The aforementioned "Frame of Mind" is a good example.  Also, the silly the one where Deanna is having nightmares ("one moon circles") and there's another nightmare one where it turns out they're all being experimented on in their sleep by aliens or something.

But yeah, it seemed like they just wanted to keep things light for the most part.

I've been in this room before...

Great episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 29, 2014, 12:40:26 PM
EB, you're over-generalizing from yourself to others. I was 13 when TNG started, and I, like many others, were drawn by the attempt of showing this "brave new world". At the age of 13, I probably would not have appreciated DS9's message of " whatever you don't like about the present, well boohoo, it's gonna be the same in the future". TNG was squeaky-clean, for sure, but it was a bit like Carl Sagan's "Cosmos": Let's escape for a while from the pesky meddlings of humans (aka the Cold War), and step into a shiny spaceship to see what's out there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 29, 2014, 01:04:03 PM
EB, you're over-generalizing from yourself to others. I was 13 when TNG started, and I, like many others, were drawn by the attempt of showing this "brave new world". At the age of 13, I probably would not have appreciated DS9's message of " whatever you don't like about the present, well boohoo, it's gonna be the same in the future". TNG was squeaky-clean, for sure, but it was a bit like Carl Sagan's "Cosmos": Let's escape for a while from the pesky meddlings of humans (aka the Cold War), and step into a shiny spaceship to see what's out there.
But had you grown up watching TOS? Part of the deal is that TOS was set in a far better future, especially when compared to when it aired. The multicultural cast, the aversion to war, the notion that people were provided for all led to a tremendously optimistic outlook; that was a huge part of its appeal. Yet the original cast were all still humans (Spock obviously excepted).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 29, 2014, 01:32:10 PM
Yeah, but TOS was shown in '66, where there was no Cold War, TNG was during the Cold War, and DS9 was after it. I think you're somewhat judging TNG outside its historical context.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on March 29, 2014, 01:33:11 PM
There wasn't a Cold War in 1966?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 29, 2014, 01:34:41 PM
There was a cold war in 1987?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 29, 2014, 01:40:44 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War#.22Second_Cold_War.22_.281979.E2.80.9385.29

Ok, right after the Second Cold War.

And '66 and after was rather a lull in the original Cold War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War#Confrontation_through_d.C3.A9tente_.281962.E2.80.9379.29
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 29, 2014, 01:46:10 PM
I'm viewing this in terms of American concern and optimism. In the sixties there was still a very real concern over nuclear war. Remember this isn't too long after Cuba. In the 80's the whole fear of being nuked was pretty much a relic.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 29, 2014, 01:52:36 PM
Errrrr .... what?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan#Escalation_of_the_Cold_War

I'm gonna watch me some "Land of Confusion" video now, if you'll excuse me...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 29, 2014, 04:09:37 PM
I'm guessing that moods here and in Germany were probably significantly different.  That cheesy, puppet riddled video was about as scary as the nuclear threat got to us growing up in the 80's. There was Afghanistan and the KAL shootdown, but by that time we were pretty well resigned to the fact that world leaders were sane enough not to blow up the planet. Back in the sixties they were still having it drilled into their heads that the Rooskies were crazed monsters biding their time before bombing us to hell and back.

If you're not familiar with it you might check out The Atomic Cafe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOUtZOqgSG8). It was made in the 80's using old nuclear warfare and civil defense newsreels as a source for black humor. Would provide some perspective on the mindset of Americans during the real cold war, as well as some pretty good comedy. The part where the natives of Bikini express their gratitude to the US for coming to relocate them so their island can be blown to bits is a real hoot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on March 29, 2014, 05:18:06 PM
Ummmmm. Two Minutes to Midnight? The Day After?

I was scared s***less in the 80's when i was a kid.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 29, 2014, 05:59:00 PM
Ummmmm. Two Minutes to Midnight? The Day After?

I was scared s***less in the 80's when i was a kid.
Really? Huh. If I'm wrong then so be it. Can only go by what the mood was down here and nobody in my area really gave serious consideration that Ivan might blow us up. As it relates to ST, just seems to me like comparing 1966 to 1987 in terms of optimism is a complete blowout. Add domestic turmoil to that and the late '60s were pretty rough. A huge chunk of TOS's popularity was based on how bright everything could be in the future.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 30, 2014, 04:45:10 AM
Yeah, EB, there was still very much a feeling of "Red Menace" during that time.  This is when Tom Clancy first became popular with books like The Hunt for Red October and Red Storm Rising,  and films like Red Dawn were coming out.  We were definitely afraid of the Soviets and the possibility of war, nuclear or otherwise.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dublagent66 on March 31, 2014, 01:59:06 PM
I've been recording and watching the remastered versions of the original series on METV.  Normally, 1 episode records weekly every Saturday night.  This last Friday I noticed my DVR was recording and much to my surprise it was Star Trek.  I'm saying to myself, "Cool! They added an extra night every week and my DVR actually picked it up."  LOL.  I recognized the description of the episode as it mentioned "Talos IV".  Right on, "The Menagerie" and as most Star Trek fans know, that is the only 2 part episode in the original series.  So, I wait for it to finish recording (so I can FF through commercials) and start watching.  Wait a minute!  This is part 2 of the epidode.  What happened to part 1?  Unbelievable!  They either aired part 1 on Thursday night (which isn't very likely) or someone at the METV network is an astronomical bonehead.  Hellooooooooo!

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 01, 2014, 10:14:09 AM
(https://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/tdomf/180886/Star%20Trek%20-%20Deal%20With%20it.gif)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 01, 2014, 11:39:56 AM
I've realised recently that Brent Spiner is the William Shatner of TNG.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on April 02, 2014, 03:09:20 PM
So I'm just finishing up TNG, and after I watch the movies, I will start on DS9. I have never watched this series all the way through, only an episode here or there. What should I expect in regards to this series?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dublagent66 on April 02, 2014, 03:17:57 PM
(https://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/tdomf/180886/Star%20Trek%20-%20Deal%20With%20it.gif)

:clap:  Congratulations.  Hope that post wasn't too difficult for you.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 02, 2014, 03:24:23 PM
So I'm just finishing up TNG, and after I watch the movies, I will start on DS9. I have never watched this series all the way through, only an episode here or there. What should I expect in regards to this series?
Bad acting and excellent episodes/seasons. It's much darker than the other series and features extended story arcs, including a war that covers the last 3 seasons. Also some excellent characters, although not the ones they initially introduce. The really interesting folks will come along later.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on April 02, 2014, 03:30:46 PM
Thanks, sounds like I'll have to be patient through the first season or so... not unlike TNG.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 02, 2014, 04:00:03 PM
Spot on El Barto.  You will not be disappointed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 02, 2014, 04:43:37 PM
Thanks, sounds like I'll have to be patient through the first season or so... not unlike TNG.  :biggrin:
Nah, first season is fine (although I thought the premier really sucked). It doesn't deal with the Dominion or the Klingons so it's not as well liked as 3-7, but it's perfectly entertaining. If you can stomach the constant Israel allegories the whole Bajor thing is quite interesting and the various flair ups with the Kardassians, settlers and separatists make for good TV.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 02, 2014, 05:26:39 PM
(https://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/tdomf/180886/Star%20Trek%20-%20Deal%20With%20it.gif)

:clap:  Congratulations.  Hope that post wasn't too difficult for you.

I wondered if you thought I'd posted that in reponse to your post.  I didn't.  I just found it elsewhere and posted it here because it was funny and Trek-related.  (Then I looked and it kinda fit, so I left it.)

Actually, it annoys me too when TV stations/networks do stupid shit like not keep two-part episodes together.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on April 02, 2014, 05:46:24 PM
So I'm just finishing up TNG, and after I watch the movies, I will start on DS9. I have never watched this series all the way through, only an episode here or there. What should I expect in regards to this series?
Seven seasons of pure awesomeness. If you can tolerate TOS's hammy acting then DS9 will be easy. The first season - the pilot especially which has some utterly dreadful acting by near everyone - is the worst but everyone grows into their characters around season 3 and it becomes pretty much excellent from there on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on April 02, 2014, 08:40:42 PM
Can't wait to start DS9 then! I promise I won't complain about it as much as TNG.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 02, 2014, 10:16:36 PM
DS9 starts off stronger than any of the other Trek shows, with easily the best pilot, and only gets better as it goes. Enjoy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on April 03, 2014, 03:17:52 AM
A friend of mine and I often meet on weekend days for movies, TV shows, music, arts and creative stuff, crazy talk and good food. She got me into Adventure Time and Bravest Warriors, I got her into Ayreon and Sherlock. So we've come to a certain level of trust about each other's tastes and their compatibility.

A few weeks back she asked me something I never thought I'd get to hear from anyone: "I don't really know a lot about it and although I'm used to making fun of it there has to be a good reason it has so many devoted fans like you and a strong influence on their lives... would you teach me Star Trek?"

:o

It made me smile and gasp simultaneously. What an opportunity, what a task! The afternoon continued with another movie and ice cream. After that she asked me when we could start and I said: "When I'm done preparing a curriculum..." - a nice way for a return gasp.

So I started picking the TOS essentials for good stories, character moments and interaction, dramatic and fun highlights, and stuff that is referenced in future incarnations. The result was a list of 20 episodes. I've been a little afraid because usually the 60ies stuff doesn't work too well with younger people (she is 22), but so far she loves every minute of it. Over the last three meetings we covered 18 of the 20 episodes, I also added "Where No Fan Has Gone Before" (Futurama) for a little extra fun. Next up is the remaining two TOS episodes and then we'll continue with the first six movies.

It has been challenging for me not to pause every few minutes and elaborate on background information and details but so far I managed to only provide evil teasers (like "one will see the other die", when she commented on Kirk/Spock chemistry) and no spoilers at all. I can't wait to see and hear her reacting to all the things that are yet to come.

I've already prepared a 40 episode essentials list of TNG with an old friend, ex co-worker, and fellow Trek nut and just started rewatching DS9 myself to be able to do the same for that show as I've noticed I was a little rusty in knowing which early episodes had the character defining moments.

All I can say is that so far it's been a thrill to be along for the ride with someone on a journey I enjoyed so much quite a few years ago and I can't wait for it to continue.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 03, 2014, 03:20:13 AM
Bonus points for including the Futurama episode. :lol Such a good homage to TOS, and it's the only way she'll learn about Welshy!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 03, 2014, 07:33:53 AM
she asked me when we could start and I said: "When I'm done preparing a curriculum..."

That is awesome.  These things must be done properly.  You're doing it right. :tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 03, 2014, 08:15:40 AM
Twenty and forty episodes would be about right, me thinks. I know when I put together a list of TNG episodes I could stomach watching again it was 67. Probably 20 or so of those wound up being far more awful than I remembered, so 40 seems like a good number. I figure the hard part would be trying to pick expository episodes rather than good episodes. There are plenty of good TOS episodes that don't really do much to expand on characters (A Taste of Armageddon). Similarly, there are some that I don't enjoy at all that provide valuable character insight (The Galileo 7).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 03, 2014, 08:25:23 AM
I'm sure some people in this thread don't actually like Star trek :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on April 04, 2014, 06:29:33 AM
Selecting the TOS episodes was very easy as there isn't really any introduction phase or developing background story, just pick the essential ones, the cool ones and those with character background and you're done.

With TNG there's quite a bit more to keep in mind: References to TOS and future spin-offs, the background stories (Worf's family and the Empire, Data's development and Lore, Q interactions and the Borg, Wesley and the Traveler, Tasha to Enterprise C to Sela, ...). My initial list had 60 episodes which would have been overkill. There were a few hard decisions like omitting the Chain Of Command and Birthright two-parters (and other episodes I really like), which are great but not really necessary.

DS9 is much harder and like I said I need a rewatch to be able to select the episodes. There's character development spread over a few slower ones in the first two seasons which are nice but not really necessary. And with the destruction of the Odyssey in 2x26 and the 3x01-02 Search two-parter with the introduction of the Defiant and the founders the overarching story starts sooner than what it feels like when thinking back to the last time I watched it. Not to mention how hard it will be to omit episodes once Worf is on board and Dominion background information is in almost every episode.

VOY is mostly self-contained and doesn't really have a lot of background story besides "getting home", so it will be much easier to trim down to the cool episodes.

ENT is probably the hardest to shorten, as it's riddled with references, has a full season 3 arc and the mini arcs in season 4 and many nice episodes in the first two seasons as well.

Then again I don't know if she's really up to go the full distance, nor if it's wise to do so. Maybe it would be better to stop after DS9 and let her explore the rest on her own. After all the goal is to get her into the story and characters and make it much more enjoyable to discover all the little details and additional information in yet unseen episodes later, whenever she decides to watch them.

If someone's interested in my episode lists, I'll post them.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 04, 2014, 07:22:21 AM
Just tell her to watch all of TNG and then say " Imagine a shit version of that and you've got Voyager - and imagine that on a space station with series story arcs and you've got DS9. Then imagine it again but 100 years before Kirk and you've got Enterprise "


:lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 04, 2014, 07:24:09 AM
Just tell her to watch all of TNG and then say " Imagine a shit version of that and you've got Voyager - and imagine that on a space station with series story arcs and you've got DS9. Then imagine it again but 100 years before Kirk and you've got Enterprise "


:lol

Except that none of those are correct.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 04, 2014, 07:41:44 AM
Hence the " :lol "

Also I thought i'd try Hating on Star Trek for a change. It seems that's de rigeur in this thread. . .

A thread about Star Trek where all positive opinions are frowned upon.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 04, 2014, 07:48:33 AM
I thought the ":lol" was more like dismissing the other series. I have trouble recognizing Kotowboy humour! :P

I think we just have a lot of love/hate in this thread for just about every series and movie. Maybe some day we will find that elusive thing we all unanimously adore. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 04, 2014, 08:38:48 AM
Selecting the TOS episodes was very easy as there isn't really any introduction phase or developing background story, just pick the essential ones, the cool ones and those with character background and you're done.

With TNG there's quite a bit more to keep in mind: References to TOS and future spin-offs, the background stories (Worf's family and the Empire, Data's development and Lore, Q interactions and the Borg, Wesley and the Traveler, Tasha to Enterprise C to Sela, ...). My initial list had 60 episodes which would have been overkill. There were a few hard decisions like omitting the Chain Of Command and Birthright two-parters (and other episodes I really like), which are great but not really necessary.

DS9 is much harder and like I said I need a rewatch to be able to select the episodes. There's character development spread over a few slower ones in the first two seasons which are nice but not really necessary. And with the destruction of the Odyssey in 2x26 and the 3x01-02 Search two-parter with the introduction of the Defiant and the founders the overarching story starts sooner than what it feels like when thinking back to the last time I watched it. Not to mention how hard it will be to omit episodes once Worf is on board and Dominion background information is in almost every episode.

VOY is mostly self-contained and doesn't really have a lot of background story besides "getting home", so it will be much easier to trim down to the cool episodes.

ENT is probably the hardest to shorten, as it's riddled with references, has a full season 3 arc and the mini arcs in season 4 and many nice episodes in the first two seasons as well.

Then again I don't know if she's really up to go the full distance, nor if it's wise to do so. Maybe it would be better to stop after DS9 and let her explore the rest on her own. After all the goal is to get her into the story and characters and make it much more enjoyable to discover all the little details and additional information in yet unseen episodes later, whenever she decides to watch them.

If someone's interested in my episode lists, I'll post them.

Greetings...
Nef
You might consider skipping from TNG to VOY continuing with the selections, with the implicit advice that the best series by far needs to be watched pretty much as a whole. If she's up for it she can watch it on her own at that point. Like you said, there's too much development in the lesser episodes. That's something I come up with quite a bit since I'll omit 10-15% of the series when I rewatch through it. If you are going to do selections with it I'd consult Memory Alpha to find out what continuity issues there are with everything you skip. When you factor in the required understanding of Bajoran customs and religion, Dax's history, Bashir being a mutant, and the whole Odo/changeling/Founder thing it's pretty hard to watch it in a non-serialized way. At best I'd plan on watching all but the patently standalone episodes (mirror universe, alternate timelines, dreams, etc.).

I'd skip Birthright, as well, despite it being an alright episode. As for CoC, that's a tougher call. I don't think it's as good as people make it out to be (largely an excuse for Piccard to emote a while), I'd probably still include it since it's a good background on the Kardassians and also shows that not everybody in Starfleet is as bland as the TNG crew. (woud have been a better series if they'd kept Jellico)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 04, 2014, 08:47:45 AM
I thought the ":lol" was more like dismissing the other series. I have trouble recognizing Kotowboy humour! :P

I think we just have a lot of love/hate in this thread for just about every series and movie. Maybe some day we will find that elusive thing we all unanimously adore. :biggrin:

Wrath of Khan for instance.

It is weird how in STID - Enterprise doesn't fire a single phaser or torpedo in the entire film.

Has that ever happened before in a Trek film ? Voyage Home probably  :biggrin:


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 04, 2014, 09:20:50 AM
Wrath of Khan for instance.

It is weird how in STID - Enterprise doesn't fire a single phaser or torpedo in the entire film.

Has that ever happened before in a Trek film ? Voyage Home probably  :biggrin:

Whoa, I never thought about that. :omg: Seriously.


Also, this:

(https://neo-fringe.com/nimgr.php?fn=tanagra.png&nw=640&nh=640&f=areas/a3/f3306.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 04, 2014, 09:32:36 AM
:emo: When the walls fell.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on April 04, 2014, 12:38:45 PM
 :rollin holy crap
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 04, 2014, 01:49:35 PM
:rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 04, 2014, 03:30:57 PM
There are actually a few t-shirt designs for that.
(https://images.cdn.bigcartel.com/bigcartel/product_images/74697383/max_h-1000+max_w-1000/darmok.jpg)

Anyhoo, I can't picture Picard being a BC Rich sort of fellow. Gretsch maybe, but seems more like the pretentious type who'd play some custom built one-off sort of guitar.

Also, was he of the sinister persuasion? Never noticed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 04, 2014, 03:38:57 PM
I can see Picard playing an acoustic but not an electric.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 04, 2014, 03:51:20 PM
He looks pretty badass in that picture, though, combining the sleeveless look with his bald head.  Badass enough to play the Rich.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 04, 2014, 03:55:10 PM
He looks pretty badass in that picture, though, combining the sleeveless look with his bald head.  Badass enough to play the Rich.
Yeah, I agree with all of that. It's just that nobody cool plays BC Rich, do they? I'm thinking Lita Ford and Slayer off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 04, 2014, 04:24:53 PM
Oh, I gotcha.  You were going the other way with it.  I guess I'm so old that I still think BC Riches are cool.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 04, 2014, 08:44:22 PM
BC Riches are cool.

All of the shirts I have of '80s icons playing guitars feature Gibson Explorers though (and strangely with a '70s Strat neck), so they're my shirt guitar of choice. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on April 05, 2014, 02:11:40 AM
Picard on a metal festival stage?
Three words: Electric Ressikan Flute!

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 05, 2014, 06:56:42 AM
Picard Joins Jethro Tull .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 05, 2014, 11:01:35 AM
I'm not sure, but in TMP I think Spock goes almost the entire movie completely ignoring McCoy, despite numerous attempts to talk to him.. I don't recall him saying a single word to him until the final 5 minutes. Spock either ignores him outright or tells somebody else the answer to McCoy's questions.  :lol In retrospect it seems like there's some real animosity there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 05, 2014, 12:19:40 PM
I think in TMP, the idea is that Spock has been off trying to "become more Vulcan".  The whole thing with the Kolinar and all that.  McCoy always did bug the hell out of Spock, being so human and emotional.  Spock has returned to The Enterprise out of sense of friendship and obligation to Kirk that he probably doesn't fully understand himself, and because being on board will help him investigate that thing that's apparently calling to him or something.  But he wasn't looking forward to having to put up with McCoy and his shit.  Vulcans aren't without emotion; they just suppress them and/or ignore them, but they still manifest themselves in various ways.

If you asked Spock, he'd play the "logic" card and say he didn't speak to McCoy because he didn't need to, and engaging in small talk is a waste of time.  But I don't think he ever really liked McCoy.  I think they gained a much better understanding of each other after the deal with Spock's khatra passing to McCoy and back, but let's face it, Spock in TMP is pretty cold.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 05, 2014, 01:20:27 PM
Nah, they never disliked each other at all. They fought all the time, but then so do brothers. They were friends and that came up numerous times during TOS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 05, 2014, 02:17:57 PM
They respected each other, and they got along pretty well when Kirk was around because they both considered him a friend.  But for all the times they helped each other out, they always played it like it was the right thing to do, duty, etc., but we were meant to understand that they really liked each other and just weren't going to say it.  I really wasn't sure if they liked each other.  If it was a friendship, it was a friendship borne of familiarity and respect, and in an odd way, I guess you could call it affection.  But really liking each other?  I just never quite bought it.  That's why STIII felt so big to me.  After being inside each other's heads, literally, for a while, they finally reached a point where they understood each other.  Singing around the campfire together at the end of STV, that felt like three friends.  Real friends.

Maybe I'm looking for an arc that really isn't there, and even finding it.  But I never felt like they were real friends until the movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 05, 2014, 03:02:25 PM
Well, Spock referred to him as one of his closest friends in Amok Time. Plus, there are episodes that actually focus on the two of them a bit and you get a sense of friendship there, as well. You've got Tholian Web where McCoy acts like the biggest douche in the universe, yet there's still some comeradere there, and you get that Spock still values his input (even before Kirk's message recommending just that). You've also got the Immunity Syndrome where there's clearly some rivalry going on, but also a sense of personal concern. All in all I thought there's was a very interesting dynamic.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 05, 2014, 03:35:08 PM
Star Trek 3

Co-writer J.D. Payne spoke to the LDS Film Festival back in February, and revealed a little bit about what their thinking is for the third movie:


We're trying to set up a kind of situation where you really could — and not in just an 'everything's relative' sort of moral relativism — you could be a good person of any creed or philosophical background and come down on both sides of how you should respond to this opportunity that the crew has.... that also has some pitfalls to it. Where you could argue very, very, very compellingly that 'this' is what you should do, and if you're advocating 'this' then it's actually evil.

It's sort of the Adam and Eve thing, where should we eat the fruit or not eat the fruit? Well, there are some very compelling reasons why they should and why they shouldn't. So, similar kinds of things here that really give the whole movie and opportunity to sort of play with that, and have people come down on different sides and wrestle with it; then come to an ending where you can walk out and say, 'You know, I don't know what I would do.



*releases the wolves*.....
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 05, 2014, 05:24:51 PM
Ok, it would be *really* cool if the crew got the opportunity to restore the original time line. That would be quite the ethical dilemma. On one hand it would save all of Vulcan, on the other you're essentially killing everybody you know.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 05, 2014, 05:48:37 PM
Ok, it would be *really* cool if the crew got the opportunity to restore the original time line. That would be quite the ethical dilemma. On one hand it would save all of Vulcan, on the other you're essentially killing everybody you know.
Since I suspect this is the end of that particular franchise, it'd also be a nifty way for them to turn it into history and we can forget it ever happened. Pretty good idea, actually.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 05, 2014, 05:57:07 PM
I'd totally be fine with that, because I agree, this will be the end of this particular crew. Not only that, but they could fold in a ton of original actors into the movie if they do it smartly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 05, 2014, 06:00:08 PM
I'd totally be fine with that, because I agree, this will be the end of this particular crew. Not only that, but they could fold in a ton of original actors into the movie if they do it smartly.

Wirst idea ever.  They need to do something completely new.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 05, 2014, 06:27:18 PM
If we're talking about a new franchise set in that universe, that'd be a terrible idea. The familiarity with the characters is the only thing that keeps it from being awful. Personally, I'd love to see that crew in a TV series. They'd actually get to do some sci-fi stuff since they're no longer worried about the popcorn crowd and we'd get to see the crew develop. Since I doubt the actors would be cool with that, it's time to call it a day.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 05, 2014, 06:49:13 PM
Of course the actors would not be cool with NOT doing an action movie with absolutely no script whatsoever.

And I know for a Fact that Zachary Quinto HATES anything with a plot.

Simon Pegg has gone on record as saying that " PLot is over rated - just blow shit up. That's all actors really want.

Studying drama was a waste of time i've found out. "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on April 05, 2014, 06:57:12 PM
Of course the actors would not be cool with NOT doing an action movie with absolutely no script whatsoever.

And I know for a Fact that Zachary Quinto HATES anything with a plot.

Simon Pegg has gone on record as saying that " PLot is over rated - just blow shit up. That's all actors really want.

Studying drama was a waste of time i've found out. "

How do you know this?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 05, 2014, 07:05:00 PM
I don't. I was making shit up and presenting it as fact.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 05, 2014, 07:18:59 PM
I'd totally be fine with that, because I agree, this will be the end of this particular crew. Not only that, but they could fold in a ton of original actors into the movie if they do it smartly.

Wirst idea ever.  They need to do something completely new.

Depends on how it is done. If they just shoehorn the TOS guys in there, sure, that would suck. But imagine some time travel plot that makes them interact with their future selves.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 05, 2014, 07:34:50 PM
If they restore the timeline - that would mean future movies would be completely neutered because Kirk's life is covered from TOS right up to his death.

There would be no way to fit in any more stories.

I'd be up for as many films as this cast makes. The people who don't like them don't have to watch them - or be safe in the knowledge that

they're set in an alternate universe which has no bearing on the prime timeline at all.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 05, 2014, 07:48:15 PM
They're not going to keep making these movies, though. Truth is that they're not profitable enough to keep blowing 200 million a pop on. Now that the actor would demand even more money to continue, that price goes up even further. This will likely be the end of this particular franchise. I like the idea of ending it and making it self-contained.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 05, 2014, 07:49:02 PM
I certainly wouldn't mind more movies with the current cast, I just don't see a high likelihood for that. The new crew is comprised of some highly sought-after actors, they won't stick around for long. In my judgment, this new movie will be the last with this crew, and then they might as well close the story arc. After that, I think the only thing to do, provided Paramount is interesting in more Trek, would be a new TV series.

EDIT: Ninja'd by EB.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 05, 2014, 07:59:19 PM
I know everyone thinks the JJ movies are just Transformers with the Trek crew and I can't disagree enough.

My biggest worry is that Paramount just hands it over to someone like Michael Bay who will just turn it into a slow mo explosion fest with

Kirk wearing shades and firing two phasers then doing a slow mo walk away from an explosion. Shit life that.

That I DO NOT want.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 05, 2014, 09:02:59 PM
I know everyone thinks the JJ movies are just Transformers with the Trek crew and I can't disagree enough.

My biggest worry is that Paramount just hands it over to someone like Michael Bay who will just turn it into a slow mo explosion fest with

Kirk wearing shades and firing two phasers then doing a slow mo walk away from an explosion. Shit life that.

That I DO NOT want.

But driving cars off cliffs, getting into bar fights over girls, sleeping around, cheating, and being a general douche is ok, especially if he gets rewarded for it with Starfleet's top ship. :biggrin:

I'm not expecting any of that little interview idea to end up in the movie. I remember with the second movie, they were talking about it not being a typical enemy, and it sounded more like a traditional Trek episode.
Then they just scrapped that and remade TWOK with bigger spaceships and more explosions and less soul. :P

And I wouldn't be hoping for any return to the prime timeline either. The current timeline is what the new viewers have seen, and they'll want to capitalize on that into the future if/when we get a new series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 05, 2014, 09:15:48 PM
(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10014563_914712625224858_2466594978627796133_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 05, 2014, 10:44:47 PM
Those look a lot more like Dreamworks characters than Pixar.  Kirk has a vague resemblence to Mr. Incredible, but other than that, they're Dreamworks-style caricatures.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 05, 2014, 11:04:58 PM
And I wouldn't be hoping for any return to the prime timeline either. The current timeline is what the new viewers have seen, and they'll want to capitalize on that into the future if/when we get a new series.
What would be the difference? Unless we get another Kirk, Spock and McCoy with completely different back-stories, then the changes are insignificant. Inexplicably different looking Klingons, a brewery in engineering and a helluva lot fewer Vulcans. Unless they're going to import the reality TV style the Abrams movies had, in which case I doubt people would even consider it Star Trek anymore.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 06, 2014, 12:58:01 AM
Insignificant? I don't know how they would be anything alike.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 06, 2014, 07:51:11 AM
Those look a lot more like Dreamworks characters than Pixar.  Kirk has a vague resemblence to Mr. Incredible, but other than that, they're Dreamworks-style caricatures.

Nah, they look like Pixar alright. For comparison:

Bones = (https://quienmemandaria.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/incrediblesnew14.jpg) (from The Incredibles)

Uhura = (https://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121001020425/disneyvillains/images/a/a6/Mirage.jpg) (also from The Incredibles)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 06, 2014, 06:15:04 PM
Just saw an article about some webshow featuring Wil Wheaton playing tabletop games with his various buddies. Apparently it's somewhat successful, at least insofar as webshows are, I suppose. I'm forced to have a begrudging respect for this guy. Here's a kid who's entire claim to fame is being a universally despised character on a hit TV series. Absolutely nobody liked Wesley Crusher and the vast majority of us wanted to see him killed. Yet now you've got Wil Wheaton the normal guy who's doing quite well for no other reason that he's a perfectly likeable fellow. I hated his character but I'd certainly hang out and play D&D with the guy. Seems like that'd be particularly hard to pull off, especially when it's during your formulative teenage years that you're so universally despised. Hell, look at what happened to that Anakin Skywalker dickhead. He's insanely bitter about the whole thing, and he's only 25, swearing he'll never act again.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 06, 2014, 07:01:53 PM
I think there's several factors. One, he was older than Jake Lloyd when he appeared in his "most hated role", so he might have been better able to deal with the crticism. Also, Wil had been in "Stand By Me" before that, and that established that he indeed was a pretty decent actor.
Also, the disdain for Wesley was a bit of a slow burn, as opposed to fiery hatred Star Wars Ep I received.

But yeah, of course it also helps if you're a pretty cool dude to begin with :lol

EDIT: What's funny, I personally never considered young Anakin to be nearly as bad as fucking Hayden Christensen. Holy shit, that guy is absolutely incapable of acting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 06, 2014, 07:46:18 PM
EDIT: What's funny, I personally never considered young Anakin to be nearly as bad as fucking Hayden Christensen. Holy shit, that guy is absolutely incapable of acting.
Definitely. I never really hated JL because of his acting. I hated the character, his characterization and what it did to Star Wars. If E1TPM had been worth a fuck he wouldn't have bothered me much. HC was just a thoroughly detestable person in all regards.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 06, 2014, 08:01:57 PM
Wesley Crusher > Jake Lloyd Anakin > Hayden Christensen Anakin.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 06, 2014, 08:46:06 PM
If you watch any videos, Jake Lloyd is so bitter about his role in Star Wars. :lol I saw a video at a recent convention, and someone was asking him questions about his role in Star Wars, and he acted like he was really offended by being asked anything, as if he didn't realize he was only there because 15 years ago he was in Star Wars, and not because we care about all of the great things happening in his life right now. :P

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 06, 2014, 09:09:05 PM
Oh wow, I just watched whatever the first YT video that comes up under his name. Wow, he seems like a bitter loser, sorry. The kinda guy who can only be snarky and because of it has no friends.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 06, 2014, 09:18:06 PM
I just checked Youtube, and that first video is the exact same one I saw. I don't know how you could even be a guest at a con with that attitude. I bet the promoters regretted that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 06, 2014, 09:57:05 PM
Apparently he was just tormented mercilessly because of that. It also destroyed any career he might have had afterward since he was typecast. Add to that I don't think he even wanted to be an actor anyway. Still, it just goes to show what a down to Earth guy WW must be.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 07, 2014, 05:29:14 AM
Compared to that video - Wil Wheaton is a saint.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 07, 2014, 08:01:24 AM
The thing is, while I can see that highschool would have been rough, once you're in college you get a completely fresh start. If you're still having problems with your past 15 years later, that's your problem, not somebody else's.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 07, 2014, 08:14:01 AM
Still, people are a-holes.  They needed to go after Lucas, not some little kid who had crappy lines fed to him.  But like you said, the kid needs to get over it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 07, 2014, 10:03:54 AM
So, Episode 7 has begun filming...



.. oh wait, wrong thread.


So, Star Trek 3 has begun scripting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 12, 2014, 12:53:55 PM
I watched Into Darkness today. I think that if I didn't know anything about Star Trek other than the 2009 film, I would have really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 12, 2014, 12:54:35 PM
I watched Into Darkness today. I think that if I didn't know anything about Star Trek other than the 2009 film, I would have really enjoyed it.

Can we get a new thread yet ?

Request " The United Threaderation Of Planets "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 12, 2014, 05:31:07 PM
I watched Into Darkness today. I think that if I didn't know anything about Star Trek other than the 2009 film, I would have really enjoyed it.
I had pretty much the exact opposite reaction. It was mostly the passing familiarity with ST that made me not hate it. I just don't much care for that style of filmmaking, so it's really only the characters that I can appreciate. Now, if I didn't know anything about TWoK I would have enjoyed it much more, as the ripoff aspect really dampened me on it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 12, 2014, 06:45:45 PM
With into darkness I found I didn't get the same euphoria as 2009 BUT I can watch it repeatedly unlike 2009 which I can only watch every once in a while.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 13, 2014, 04:23:47 AM
I watched Into Darkness today. I think that if I didn't know anything about Star Trek other than the 2009 film, I would have really enjoyed it.
I had pretty much the exact opposite reaction.
I don't think so.

Now, if I didn't know anything about TWoK I would have enjoyed it much more, as the ripoff aspect really dampened me on it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 13, 2014, 10:02:51 PM
A totally random thought occurred to me today: So, TNG plays in the 24th century. That's about 400 years in the future. Now, if you look at the English language from 400 years ago, that's early 17th century, the time of Shakespeare. The pronunciation has shifted so much (check out this video: https://youtu.be/gPlpphT7n9s ), people in the 24th century would likely to be incomprehensible to us.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 13, 2014, 10:05:25 PM
A totally random thought occurred to me today: So, TNG plays in the 24th century. That's about 400 years in the future. Now, if you look at the English language from 400 years ago, that's early 17th century, the time of Shakespeare. The pronunciation has shifted so much (check out this video: https://youtu.be/gPlpphT7n9s ), people in the 24th century would likely to be incomprehensible to us.

Which wouldn't make for very fun viewing, would it? :lol
Much like all aliens speaking with US accents, I just accept they're using the universal translator for the viewer's benefit. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 13, 2014, 10:19:17 PM
I still think that in that Voyager episode with Jason Alexander, Janeway should have made a comment at the end, something like: "Man, sometimes the choice of pronunciation of the universal translator is peculiar, to say the least. It gave Kurros the voice of a 20th century New Yorker."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 14, 2014, 07:08:14 AM
I still think that in that Voyager episode with Jason Alexander, Janeway should have made a comment at the end, something like: "Man, sometimes the choice of pronunciation of the universal translator is peculiar, to say the least. It gave Kurros the voice of a 20th century New Yorker."

:lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 14, 2014, 10:16:02 AM
I was watching " The Royale " and I realised that between Data, Worf and Troi - you've got an almost perfect away team.

Troi can sense if a character is keeping secrets or being deceitful,

Worf has the brute strength and combat abilities should they encounter hostiles.

Data has incredible computational and processing abilities plus can access almost any electronic device and over ride it AND his incredible strength.

All you'd need then is a mediator like Picard who's chief skill is to resolve disputes.

All that's missing from that perfect combo is a Q like being - who, when all else fails FUCK IT :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 14, 2014, 12:04:42 PM
I think Data could handle the combat aspect better than Worf and he wouldn't be wrong every time he thinks, acts or speaks. Worf was only ever useful because the stories were written with that in mind. The only time he was ever an asset was when his knowledge of Klingon culture and customs was useful. Otherwise he was probably a liability more often than not.

Was there ever an instance that didn't involve other Klingons where they though "man, thank God we had Worf along with us!"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on April 14, 2014, 12:30:50 PM
Worf gets denied again and again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edflm7Hh3hs

Worf gets owned again and again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXrlhN9rPoc

Poor Mr. Woof.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 14, 2014, 01:19:02 PM
Worf is an hilarious character. Just the thought of a warrior like him being reduced to taking orders subserviently aboard a peaceful cruise liner :lol



It's as if Ghengis Khan was head of security aboard the QE2.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 14, 2014, 01:22:23 PM
Worf gets denied again and again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edflm7Hh3hs


" Sir, this may be out only chance...."

".............................................no. "

 :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 14, 2014, 01:32:39 PM
Worf is an hilarious character. Just the thought of a warrior like him being reduced to taking orders subserviently aboard a peaceful cruise liner :lol

It's so sad.  He was supposed to represent how the Federation and the Klingon Empire were now allies, blah blah blah, but even the other Klingons gave him shit about it.  Like, every time.  And he had to bear it all while trying to keep his dignity and a straight face, and I honestly felt sorry for him sometimes.

That gold sash looked kinda cool, actually, but then we soon find out that no other Klingon ever wears one, and the other Klingons gave him shit about that, too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 14, 2014, 02:07:39 PM
He probably figured he could wear his Homecoming sash, and everybody would think it's some glorious battle trophy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 14, 2014, 02:28:22 PM
Something like that.  In the pilot, they make a point of how it not part of the standard Star Fleet uniform, but Worf can wear it because it's such a special deal, how he's the first Klingon to be a bridge officer, etc.  I assumed it was some kind of special Klingon thing that they'd allowed him to wear (imperfect analogy: when a Cub Scout achieves the Arrow of Light, the highest award, he gets to wear it on his Boy Scout uniform).  But the first time other Klingons see it, they laugh at him and say "what the *%# is that?"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 14, 2014, 02:35:28 PM
Worf is an hilarious character. Just the thought of a warrior like him being reduced to taking orders subserviently aboard a peaceful cruise liner :lol

It's so sad.  He was supposed to represent how the Federation and the Klingon Empire were now allies, blah blah blah, but even the other Klingons gave him shit about it.  Like, every time.  And he had to bear it all while trying to keep his dignity and a straight face, and I honestly felt sorry for him sometimes.

That gold sash looked kinda cool, actually, but then we soon find out that no other Klingon ever wears one, and the other Klingons gave him shit about that, too.
Interestingly, I stumbled across the Memory-Alpha page on Klingon baldrics the other day. Actually most noteworthy Klingons wore them (as well as Andorians, apparently). They were normally just hard to notice. They tended to be more narrow and often blended in with the rest of their uniform.

Kang and K'mpec wore pretty prominent ones:
(https://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081213042941/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/2/2a/Kang2268.jpg/185px-Kang2268.jpg)
(https://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121106031944/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/0/0c/Kmpec.jpg/185px-Kmpec.jpg)

Most of the time they were more subtle, like Martok's:
(https://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110805121635/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/c/c6/Martok%2C_Chancellor_of_the_Klingon_High_Council.jpg/151px-Martok%2C_Chancellor_of_the_Klingon_High_Council.jpg)

And when other Klingons laugh at it, it's usually because they don't view him as a real Klingon or they're ragging on him for his non-existent house.

Here's plenty of other Klingons with baldrics:

https://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Baldric
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 14, 2014, 03:01:18 PM
(https://community.webroot.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/8255i4FF36721CBF3EC63/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1)

What I think when I hear "Baldric".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 14, 2014, 03:08:29 PM
I always think of this knucklehead.

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8p6tMvdnt71oAJ3pna2HnunghjygpeUlptV6_r1b8BEvyjTgi)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 14, 2014, 03:21:47 PM
I sit corrected.  Twice in one day.  Must be a Monday.  :(


Also, Kang was cool.  I always liked him.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 14, 2014, 03:46:53 PM
I always think of this knucklehead.

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8p6tMvdnt71oAJ3pna2HnunghjygpeUlptV6_r1b8BEvyjTgi)

Is that Henry Gibson ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 14, 2014, 04:37:46 PM
Is that Henry Gibson ?
According to IMDB it is, although I'd honestly never heard of him outside of being the head Illinois Nazi. Turns out he played a Ferengi once.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 14, 2014, 04:54:45 PM
He's usually in Joe Dante films. He's in Gremlins and Innerspace.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on April 15, 2014, 08:48:07 AM
Don't forget the epic Judge Clark Brown in Boston Legal!

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 15, 2014, 08:57:42 AM
I only know him from Boston Legal, and the episode of Stargate SG-1 "The Sentinel". I like scifi connections. :blob:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ZirconBlue on April 22, 2014, 09:07:42 AM
So, I finally got around to watching DS9 for the first time.  I just watched the episode "Who Mourns for Morn?", and I can't believe it took me this long to notice that "Morn" is "Norm" spelled backward.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 22, 2014, 09:12:14 AM
Well not quite spelled backwards, but I think it was an intentional similarity.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 22, 2014, 09:14:47 AM
It's closer to Who Mourns For Adonais :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 22, 2014, 09:16:43 AM
It's closer to Who Mourns For Adonais :P

But who mourns for Morn?!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ZirconBlue on April 22, 2014, 02:28:17 PM
Well not quite spelled backwards, but I think it was an intentional similarity.

D'oh!  Should have actually looked at the words instead of having a Eureka! moment and immediately posting about it on the internet. 
 
But, yes, as you say, it does seem an obvious reference nonetheless.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 22, 2014, 02:30:23 PM
And who is Norm ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 22, 2014, 03:51:02 PM
You might not know him, but he for sure knows your name. In fact, everybody knows your name.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 22, 2014, 03:57:23 PM
Morn was a great character. There were always some great bits involving him. Worf cold-cocking him to impress Quark's wife. Jadzia wanting to bang him and getting turned down. In fact, as much as he was a reference to Norm he was also an offshoot of Kijé.

Kowtow, Norm was the resident drunk in Cheers. Didn't realize it before, but I suppose Cheers was an American phenomenon.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 22, 2014, 04:17:08 PM
Morn was a great character. There were always some great bits involving him. Worf cold-cocking him to impress Quark's wife. Jadzia wanting to bang him and getting turned down. In fact, as much as he was a reference to Norm he was also an offshoot of Kijé.

Kowtow, Norm was the resident drunk in Cheers. Didn't realize it before, but I suppose Cheers was an American phenomenon.

Man I forgot about all those episode with him.  I need to pick up the Blu Ray Series for DS9.

As for Norm,   


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weBbZ11d5LM

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on April 24, 2014, 01:50:12 AM
I need to pick up the Blu Ray Series for DS9.

Not even anounced so far. A few FX clips have been recomposited in HD though and they look great (DS9 HD Clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJs0-hhOZFQ)).


And now for something completely different:
My Trek "cadet" and I successfully made it through the 20 TOS episodes I selected and the first six movies. The first leg couldn't have had a more beautiful, epic, and glorious ending than "The Undiscovered Country". She officially considers herself a fan by now. We'll get started with TNG on Saturday. Can't wait!

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PetFish on April 24, 2014, 02:18:08 AM
I'm still mad that TNG wasn't initially shot on film so yeah, we get HD, but it's in 4:3.  If only they hadn't shot the show on tape.

Even Seinfeld and Friends were shot on film which is why they can put out the full 16:9 HD versions, but TNG just feels so useless "re-mastered", like putting whip cream on a turd.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 24, 2014, 02:26:34 AM
I'm still mad that TNG wasn't initially shot on film so yeah, we get HD, but it's in 4:3.  If only they hadn't shot the show on tape.

Even Seinfeld and Friends were shot on film which is why they can put out the full 16:9 HD versions, but TNG just feels so useless "re-mastered", like putting whip cream on a turd.

Every Star Trek series was shot on film (35mm), it was only edited on tape at the time for the sake of the visual effects. They then rescanned all of the film elements for the HD versions. Widescreen =/= film. Those are not related things. No show at that time was shot in widescreen, whether it was on tape or film.

I actually hate seeing Seinfeld on TV in 16x9 because that's not how it was originally shot or intended at all, so it's artistically compromised, with heads cropped too close to the top of frame etc. The remastered TOS on TV is even worse. Unwatchable. They could just as easily have put the new TNG in widescreen (and may even still crop it for new TV broadcasts as they did for TOS and Seinfeld), but luckily stuck to how it was supposed to be. That was a huge concern I had with them remastering the show in HD.

I wish people didn't have this strange mental block that widescreen is always better, even when it destroys the integrity of the art. If it wasn't shot in widescreen, it shouldn't be widescreen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 24, 2014, 06:04:33 AM
I need to pick up the Blu Ray Series for DS9.

Not even anounced so far. A few FX clips have been recomposited in HD though and they look great (DS9 HD Clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJs0-hhOZFQ)).


Greetings...
Nef

That's ok.  Now I can save for it since Paramount charges a Cardassian arm and a leg.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 24, 2014, 07:22:43 AM
I'm still mad that TNG wasn't initially shot on film so yeah, we get HD, but it's in 4:3.  If only they hadn't shot the show on tape.

Even Seinfeld and Friends were shot on film which is why they can put out the full 16:9 HD versions, but TNG just feels so useless "re-mastered", like putting whip cream on a turd.

Every Star Trek series was shot on film (35mm), it was only edited on tape at the time for the sake of the visual effects. They then rescanned all of the film elements for the HD versions. Widescreen =/= film. Those are not related things. No show at that time was shot in widescreen, whether it was on tape or film.

I actually hate seeing Seinfeld on TV in 16x9 because that's not how it was originally shot or intended at all, so it's artistically compromised, with heads cropped too close to the top of frame etc. The remastered TOS on TV is even worse. Unwatchable. They could just as easily have put the new TNG in widescreen (and may even still crop it for new TV broadcasts as they did for TOS and Seinfeld), but luckily stuck to how it was supposed to be. That was a huge concern I had with them remastering the show in HD.

I wish people didn't have this strange mental block that widescreen is always better, even when it destroys the integrity of the art. If it wasn't shot in widescreen, it shouldn't be widescreen.

I agree with all of this.  Chopping the top and bottom off of a 4:3 picture and blowing it up to make it widescreen is just as bad as chopping the sides off of a widescreen picture to make it fit a 4:3 screen.

If you have an HDTV, it might look a little better, but to me it's the same effect as the loudness war with audio recordings.  The picture is bigger, and fills up that HDTV screen very nicely, but it's just like turning the volume up.  Yeah, you can hear it better.  Doesn't make the music itself better.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 24, 2014, 07:36:43 AM
I want to get the 10 movies boxset. Then I can get rid of all my individual movies on DVD that don't match :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 24, 2014, 08:07:47 AM
I want to get the 10 movies boxset. Then I can get rid of all my individual movies on DVD that don't match :P

All of my DVDs are the newer releases, so they all match, although I got them all separately. It looks like the older releases got some better commentaries that my ones don't have though. Apparently one is done by Shatner and Nimoy? Instead I get some dudes from STXI doing commentary on FC when they had absolutely nothing at all to do with it. I hate that.
And also, there's the issue of whether you want the theatrical or director's cut of TMP.

I got STXI and ST:ID together as a double set, so those match too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 24, 2014, 08:10:42 AM
The cut of TMP is no contest. The original made no sense at all. It was the director's cut that added a few things to make the story work. Besides which, I almost always opt for the director's cut in any of these discussions. The theatrical version is usually what the pencil pushers want. I want what the creators wanted to make.

Of course Star Wars is the exception.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 24, 2014, 08:15:39 AM
The cut of TMP is no contest. The original made no sense at all. It was the director's cut that added a few things to make the story work. Besides which, I almost always opt for the director's cut in any of these discussions. The theatrical version is usually what the pencil pushers want. I want what the creators wanted to make.

In the case of TMP, the original was incredibly rushed too, so I don't think it was what anyone wanted at the time. I have a newer release of TMP, and it's just the theatrical cut unfortunately, which may be the case with a complete boxset too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 24, 2014, 08:38:02 AM
Speaking of rushed cuts, I had only ever seen the regular theatrical cut of Dune. The other day I got it from a friend, and I guess that one is the extended version. Mind = blown.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 24, 2014, 11:54:41 AM
Here's something that had never occurred to me before, but probably happens quite a bit. I went back and watched the scene where Troi crashes the Enterprise in Generations. After they kill those awful Klingon bitches they're doing damage control, and they're all shouting like nobody could hear themselves think. Yet the only thing going on halfway loud was the score, which seems to be the thing they're having to shout over. Seems to be a common dramatic element that whenever there's danger about everybody has to shout at the top of their lungs, and it's usually the music they're competing with. Kind of reminds me of early Spock when he'd just randomly yell.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 24, 2014, 12:32:37 PM
I'd imagine getting pummelled with Kliongon torpedos / phaser fire might have been slightly noiseriffic.


But you reminded me of a dramatic device that occurs in films that makes no sense -

 when two characters have to scream to be heard - until someone has to say something really poignant -

- then and only then the background noise suddenly goes absolutely silent and they can whisper poignantly to each other.

Then as soon as poignant message is delivered - background noise re-enters and characters continue to shout to be heard.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 24, 2014, 12:44:22 PM
Here's something that had never occurred to me before, but probably happens quite a bit. I went back and watched the scene where Troi crashes the Enterprise in Generations. After they kill those awful Klingon bitches they're doing damage control, and they're all shouting like nobody could hear themselves think. Yet the only thing going on halfway loud was the score, which seems to be the thing they're having to shout over. Seems to be a common dramatic element that whenever there's danger about everybody has to shout at the top of their lungs, and it's usually the music they're competing with. Kind of reminds me of early Spock when he'd just randomly yell.

Who knows, maybe the music *was* playing at the time. Maybe it's like in Family Guy, where Peter has his own theme music wherever he goes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 24, 2014, 12:53:08 PM
Here's something that had never occurred to me before, but probably happens quite a bit. I went back and watched the scene where Troi crashes the Enterprise in Generations. After they kill those awful Klingon bitches they're doing damage control, and they're all shouting like nobody could hear themselves think. Yet the only thing going on halfway loud was the score, which seems to be the thing they're having to shout over. Seems to be a common dramatic element that whenever there's danger about everybody has to shout at the top of their lungs, and it's usually the music they're competing with. Kind of reminds me of early Spock when he'd just randomly yell.

Who knows, maybe the music *was* playing at the time. Maybe it's like in Family Guy, where Peter has his own theme music wherever he goes.
That'd be great. Like having high speed pursuit music that you could put on anytime things got hairy. I think The Simpsons did that gag once. "The hillbillies didn't start chasing us until you put on that banjo music!"

Somebody asked Bill Clinton what he missed the most about being the president and he said "music starting up every time I enter a room." Great answer.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 24, 2014, 02:19:15 PM
Sick with the flu and saw the 2 part with Spock on TNG on BBC America.  I love when Data used the Vulcan nerve pinch to Sela and then Spock's reaction.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 24, 2014, 02:27:02 PM
Sick with the flu and saw the 2 part with Spock on TNG on BBC America.  I love when Data used the Vulcan nerve pinch to Sela and then Spock's reaction.

Ha. Now I'm gonna have to watch it to see.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 26, 2014, 09:50:27 AM
https://gloriousunderstanding.tumblr.com/post/83793526579/party-bus
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PetFish on April 26, 2014, 10:54:30 PM
Every Star Trek series was shot on film (35mm), it was only edited on tape at the time for the sake of the visual effects. They then rescanned all of the film elements for the HD versions. Widescreen =/= film. Those are not related things. No show at that time was shot in widescreen, whether it was on tape or film.

I actually hate seeing Seinfeld on TV in 16x9 because that's not how it was originally shot or intended at all, so it's artistically compromised, with heads cropped too close to the top of frame etc. The remastered TOS on TV is even worse. Unwatchable. They could just as easily have put the new TNG in widescreen (and may even still crop it for new TV broadcasts as they did for TOS and Seinfeld), but luckily stuck to how it was supposed to be. That was a huge concern I had with them remastering the show in HD.

I wish people didn't have this strange mental block that widescreen is always better, even when it destroys the integrity of the art. If it wasn't shot in widescreen, it shouldn't be widescreen.

Thanks for the lesson on film/video.  I'm not sure where I heard/saw/imagined what I thought was true about the formats.

I'm going to have to take a closer look at Seinfeld cuz it doesn't look cropped but maybe I'm cherry-picking the "HD" episodes/scenes and not really thinking about it but they look great to me.

The "strange mental block" that 16:9 is always better comment is interesting, the keyword being "always".  Taking 4:3 and zoom-cropping it to 16:9, yeah, that's not so cool, but seeing Family Guy and Simpsons switch to 16:9 as of a few years ago has been a hugely refreshing upgrade but I wouldn't want to go back and blow up older episodes though.

So, for me, 16:9 (or wider) is the way things should be made now, and they are, but taking old 4:3 stuff and zoom-cropping it isn't the way to go.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on April 28, 2014, 02:28:58 AM
I guess I must have done something right with my Trek apprentice. Even kicking off TNG with Encounter At Farpoint's slow story and wooden acting she instantly liked Q and we ended up watching 10 episodes from my TNG list pretty much back to back, ending with Yesterday's Enterprise and looking forward to the next batch. It's quite interesting for myself as well seeing the series condensed to major events and important pieces of background story. The only downside with this approach is that there are so many drama episodes when the lighter and funnier ones tend to be omitted. At least we had Deja Q for some good laughs. Next up Sins Of The Father, Sarek, The Best Of Both Worlds, so she's in for quite a ride. Can't wait to continue.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 28, 2014, 06:58:30 AM
Q was an interesting an somewhat bizarre character from the very beginning.  They toned him down quite a bit, made him more "human" as the series went on, and for a while I just found him annoying.  Some of the later Q stories were interesting, some were pretty lame ("Civil War").  I remember catching a rerun of "Encounter at Farpoint" one time and being struck by how weird Q was.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 28, 2014, 07:03:34 AM
I loved what they did with Q between Farpoint & All Good Things - but then they threw it all away on DS9 & Voyager.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 29, 2014, 05:05:34 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmbKYE0CcAA_b7F.png:large)


Just mocked up a teaser poster for Star Trek 3.

My idea is it should be called " Where No One Has Gone Before ".

• It ties in with Trek's 50th anniversary.
• It lines up with the start of the 5 year mission.
• It's kind of Star Trek's catchphrase
• It's better than trying to come up with " Star Trek....[something]. "
• I want the crew to end up in some weird area of space where physics makes no sense and everything is wrong.
• Basically I want a movie like the TNG episode " Where Silence Has Lease " :)

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 29, 2014, 05:25:21 PM
• I want the crew to end up in some weird area of space where physics makes no sense and everything is wrong.
• Basically I want a movie like the TNG episode " Where Silence Has Lease " :)
Fans of both the old and new ST would both love that, as would the critics. The masses would hate it and it'd end the franchise after losing a hundred million, therefore the studio would never, ever allow them to do it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 29, 2014, 05:32:58 PM
A hint to the next movie was revealed to be " A huge moral dilemma ".

Someone online ( maybe here ) said they should find a way to restore the original timeline at the point of divergence - therefore erasing the last 30 years of their history. Thereby saving both Romulus and Vulcan and getting Spock Prime back to where he belongs. Plus it would end the third film back in the original timeline - leaving the three JJ movies as their own - alt universe franchise - and someone else can take over...

Sounds cool but I dunno if they would just wind up saying "none of this ever happened" - although that would be pretty funny / clever from a writing perspective.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 29, 2014, 07:33:32 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaj8wejtaijrmmu/WNOHGB%202.png

I quite like this poster. Didn't take long and I copied the credits from STID but I like it.

Nice and simple.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 29, 2014, 10:06:35 PM
A hint to the next movie was revealed to be " A huge moral dilemma ".

Someone online ( maybe here ) said they should find a way to restore the original timeline at the point of divergence - therefore erasing the last 30 years of their history. Thereby saving both Romulus and Vulcan and getting Spock Prime back to where he belongs. Plus it would end the third film back in the original timeline - leaving the three JJ movies as their own - alt universe franchise - and someone else can take over...

Sounds cool but I dunno if they would just wind up saying "none of this ever happened" - although that would be pretty funny / clever from a writing perspective.



Absolutely none of this is going to happen. :lol

Surely there is a script writer out there who can write a Star Trek movie in that middle ground between being totally dumbed down for the masses, and being a respectable science fiction movie, and have it appeal to diehard Trekkies and the masses. One can dream.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 29, 2014, 10:26:39 PM
A hint to the next movie was revealed to be " A huge moral dilemma ".

Someone online ( maybe here ) said they should find a way to restore the original timeline at the point of divergence - therefore erasing the last 30 years of their history. Thereby saving both Romulus and Vulcan and getting Spock Prime back to where he belongs. Plus it would end the third film back in the original timeline - leaving the three JJ movies as their own - alt universe franchise - and someone else can take over...

Sounds cool but I dunno if they would just wind up saying "none of this ever happened" - although that would be pretty funny / clever from a writing perspective.



Absolutely none of this is going to happen. :lol
I'm not so sure. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if that wasn't their plan all along. They knew they were looking at a three picture deal, so a temporary alternate universe story and then all back to normal seems perfectly plausible.

Although it occurs to me that I might be giving Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman too much credit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 29, 2014, 10:39:29 PM
Although it occurs to me that I might be giving Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman too much credit.

To be fair, that's not a hard thing to do. :lol
I don't know, they'd boxed themselves in from most sides with the prime universe, so they wanted a clean slate, plus they get to rely on the bankable characters again by just recasting them. And if the rumours about the most likely new series with Kurtzman/Orci are true, then it will be a continuation of the new timeline.

I don't think they'll want to lose the new viewers they've gained from these movies, and confuse them by returning to the original universe. I'd be happy to see them return to the original timeline and somehow continue it with a fresh new series, but I don't see it happening. I'd love to be wrong on that though!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 30, 2014, 03:19:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nziS8brN00

This is properly funny.

I'm not sure who the "actor" is playing Spock. I thought Christopher Lloyd.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on April 30, 2014, 06:58:46 PM
• Basically I want a movie like the TNG episode " Where Silence Has Lease " :)

I really like the mindfuck TNG's. Great episode up until Nagilum, because I hate when some holier-than-thou alien species that has it allllll figured out goes on a lengthy diatribe full of generalizations of how bad humans are.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on May 01, 2014, 05:16:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nziS8brN00

This is properly funny.

I'm not sure who the "actor" is playing Spock. I thought Christopher Lloyd.

 :rollin  Yes, Christopher Lloyd.  Sepecifically, his Reverend Jim Ignatowski character from Taxi.   

Hilarious
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on May 05, 2014, 04:22:39 AM
My Trek apprentice and I are through 24 of the 40 TNG episodes I selected. The last four were the two-parters Redemption and Unification and she really liked them a lot. After 20 TOS episodes, 6 movies, and 24 TNG episodes she asked me: "I don't get it, how can anyone not like this?"
Couldn't agree more.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on May 05, 2014, 04:49:19 AM
Well done Nef.  Well done.

(https://theinspirationroom.com/daily/commercials/2009/3/wiserhood-society.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on May 05, 2014, 09:37:08 PM
Has she had any thoughts and opinions on the two different crews ie which one she prefers or any other noteworthy comments?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on May 08, 2014, 01:25:59 AM
Not really any comments about which crew she likes better, maybe because I always described Star Trek as one big interconnected story with different chapters and eras. Or maybe because not everyone is so obsessed with ranking stuff like your average DTF user. :lol

A noteworthy comment though in the episode "Sarek" a few seconds after the scene where Picard is overwhelmed by the intenisty of the emotions parked in his mind: "Imagine this would have been necessary with no one else but Kirk to ask..." :biggrin:

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on May 08, 2014, 07:30:01 AM
Kirk would not have been able to handle it.  Yes, in his own way, Kirk was as mentally strong as Picard, but somehow I don't see it as strength in the same way.  I think of the episode where Kirk gets split into two, and his personality gets split as well.  One gets all the compassion and intellect, the other gets the more primitive side like anger and impulsiveness, but from there comes the strength of will.  If Sarek's mind was somehow melded into Kirk's, I think Kirk would have fractured.  It would have blown his mind, he'd end up in a psyche ward, and both would be lost.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on May 08, 2014, 08:16:28 AM
Although your Deanna Troi approach to this topic is an interesting one I'm pretty sure what she was actually thinking was: "Imagine 60s Shatner act a scene like that in his unique style!" :biggrin:

Quote from: James T. Kirk
All those... *clenching fists* emotions, they are over... *pained face* ...whelming me, I am... *sigh*
I can't... quite... *lunatic screaming* SPOCK, I... *calming down, sweating, panting* love...
*shocked expression* you... yes I... do, please... Bones, help me! *covering eyes with hands, crying*

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on May 08, 2014, 09:27:10 AM
Okay, that would be funny, too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 08, 2014, 10:03:00 AM
Let's play a game of " Who Would You Like To Direct Star Trek 3 " and see if we can list our suggestions without bitching about the previous two movies !

My list would be :

• Joseph Kosinksi - Because Tron legacy and Oblivion are both gorgeous films.
• Chris Nolan - I'd love to see what he could bring to a Trek Universe.
• Joss Whedon - He cares about plot and characters and can clearly do action.
• Spielberg - because that would be all kinds of awesome - just keep Lucas away.
• Edgar Wright - mates with Pegg - directed a scene in Into Darkness ( Kronos ) - knows how to write cohesive stories with through lines.



Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 08, 2014, 01:07:11 PM
Of the ones you listed, probably Whedon.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 08, 2014, 03:40:59 PM
Whedon and then Nolan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on May 08, 2014, 06:33:27 PM
Whedon...no contest.

I wouldn't mind Nolan either.   

Spielberg *can* be good, but I've discovered that he basically has two hats.   His "action/sci-fi" hat and his "drama" hat.   Within those two sides, he does tend to repeat himself quite a bit...but I suppose that's to be expected. 

I guess I just don't understand why people criticize JJ Abrams for his "lens flare" signature and praise Spielberg, who had a very similar "signature" in his films.  (the E.T./Poltergeist/Close Encounters backlighting thing that he did in these and several other films)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on May 08, 2014, 06:52:03 PM
Whedon...no contest.

I wouldn't mind Nolan either.   

Spielberg *can* be good, but I've discovered that he basically has two hats.   His "action/sci-fi" hat and his "drama" hat.   Within those two sides, he does tend to repeat himself quite a bit...but I suppose that's to be expected. 

I guess I just don't understand why people criticize JJ Abrams for his "lens flare" signature and praise Spielberg, who had a very similar "signature" in his films.  (the E.T./Poltergeist/Close Encounters backlighting thing that he did in these and several other films)
Because:
A) The lens flare looks super cheap and annoying.
b) Spielberg has made some fantastic films. Abrams has not.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 08, 2014, 06:59:31 PM
Whedon...no contest.

I wouldn't mind Nolan either.   

Spielberg *can* be good, but I've discovered that he basically has two hats.   His "action/sci-fi" hat and his "drama" hat.   Within those two sides, he does tend to repeat himself quite a bit...but I suppose that's to be expected. 

I guess I just don't understand why people criticize JJ Abrams for his "lens flare" signature and praise Spielberg, who had a very similar "signature" in his films.  (the E.T./Poltergeist/Close Encounters backlighting thing that he did in these and several other films)
Spielberg uses it on specific scenes for a particular dramatic effect relative to that scene. The red and orange lights worsening the terror Jillian was already dealing with. The white lights showing an angelic nature to the aliens (I watched CEotTK the other night). Abrams used the lens flare constantly to change the entire theme of his movie. Moreover, changing the tone to something pretty far removed from cinema and more into TV territory. That's why I refer to those movies as Star Trek for the reality TV generation. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on May 08, 2014, 08:16:07 PM
...and you guys don't think the exact same effect (I remember seeing screen shots back to back from *several* of Spielberg's films...you would swear they were from the same movie, and maybe even just different angles of THE SAME SHOT) used over and over again has absolutely no bearing here?   

Ok, maybe you find the backlight effect less annoying than the lens flare effect...and that's perfectly fine...but don't pretend that they are any different in anything but personal taste. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on May 09, 2014, 02:31:49 AM
There's no need to continue J. J.'s abomination, no matter which director. You don't create an alternate timeline so you are "free" of 40 years of canon and continuity just to put a bunch of kids on a starship and - remember, we're "free" of canon and continuity - tell variants of the same stories with little twists all over again, only this time without any logical structure or background development or emotional impact at all.

It could be so easy...

Have Paramount team up with Netflix. Get back the people that were on the right track with Star Trek Enterprise after we were finally rid of Rick Berman and the show was cancelled. Combine the creativity of writers like Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens, DC Fontana, Michael Sussman, André Bormanis and Manny Coto (also producer). Maybe add the great concepts and ideas of J. Michael Straczynski for renewing Star Trek. Bring people on board who truly care about both the legacy and the future of Trek and who are well versed in the lore like Rod Roddenberry, Tim Russ, Wil Wheaton, Walter Koenig, Grant Imahara and several people from the fan-produced incarnations. Give them time and money to develop high quality engaging, entertaining, and bold new material in our favorite universe and I'm absolutely sure the old fans would support them from day one and new fans would come along almost instantly. Give them a chance to herald the return of great science fiction to our present time. Let them realize story arcs without the limitations of seasons or generations. An arc about Troi and Riker exploring strange new worlds on the Titan's deep space mission. An arc about Federation/Romulan politics years after Khitomer with Kirk and Spock trying to expose treachery on both sides. An arc about the return of the Sisko just as Bajor is falling into chaos without the guide of the prophets. An arc about Picard and Janeway on a forlorn quest to make peace with the Borg. An arc about O'Brien facing a dilemma teaching at the academy. An arc about whatever happened on Cardassia Prime (Damar) and Qo'noS (Martok) after the Dominion war. Arcs with known characters as background and initiators with new characters to continue what they started... infinite diversity in infinite combinations, to boldly go where SciFi and TV have never gone before.

It could be so easy, yet I know it will never happen. Even if there are those people who are able come up with more creative ideas in one day than J. J. and his homies in a lifetime (I'm sure quite a few of the regulars in this post could do this quite easily) his cheap and efficient style of mass production will always win in the end. :sadpanda:

Damn... I want to have my Trek back, but I'm afraid it's dead, Jim. :(

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 09, 2014, 04:59:30 AM
It's quite simple.

Pick a director.

Don't bitch about the JJ movies. There's plenty of that in this thread already.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on May 09, 2014, 05:02:08 AM
There's no need to continue J. J.'s abomination, no matter which director. You don't create an alternate timeline so you are "free" of 40 years of canon and continuity just to put a bunch of kids on a starship and - remember, we're "free" of canon and continuity - tell variants of the same stories with little twists all over again, only this time without any logical structure or background development or emotional impact at all.

<snip>

The opening scene of ST11 was the most emotional impact I have ever had from anything Star Trek related...movie, series, book...etc...etc...etc...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 09, 2014, 05:03:38 AM
Exactly. And i've seen movies with WAY MORE lens flare than either Star Trek movie but nobody ever mentions those because they weren't directed by JJ.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 09, 2014, 06:34:22 AM
I've never seen another movie with anywhere near as much lens flares as ST11. That was ridiculous. I don't remember Into Darkness having too much of it, but I've only watched it the once at the cinema so far despite getting it on DVD for Christmas. One day I'll build up the courage.

The opening scene of ST11 was quite good, but nowhere near one of their most emotional once you factor in the series imo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 09, 2014, 06:59:50 AM
The death of Spock had more weight to it because you knew these characters and had done for 16 years by that point...

What ST09 managed to do was get you emotional about people you'd only just met.

Plus you really need to watch a film more than once in order to make a decision about it...

I've watched STID several times now and I accept all the criticisms but I enjoy it regardless.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 09, 2014, 07:25:29 AM
You don't need to watch a film multiple times to see such glaring faults. Repeated viewings help you notice details, which can raise or lower your opinion of a movie depending on whether those details help or hinder it.
I've always liked ST11 despite having many criticisms of it (no really!). I didn't enjoy ST:ID that much at all, and I know that on multiple watches my opinion will only go down. It's the kind of movie where the more you think about the plot, the more it falls apart, and that's going to bother me much more on second viewing knowing this stuff in advance.

But I do agree that opening scene of ST11 did a good job of creating an emotional scene out of characters you'd just met. It was actually much more emotional to me than the Into Darkness TWOK copy scene, even after having two whole movies of Kirk/Spock. It doesn't have as much weight when you know it's going to be a cop-out, and also when it's not even an original idea.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 09, 2014, 08:31:12 AM
...and you guys don't think the exact same effect (I remember seeing screen shots back to back from *several* of Spielberg's films...you would swear they were from the same movie, and maybe even just different angles of THE SAME SHOT) used over and over again has absolutely no bearing here?   

Ok, maybe you find the backlight effect less annoying than the lens flare effect...and that's perfectly fine...but don't pretend that they are any different in anything but personal taste.
I have no idea where my original post about it is, so I'll just paraphrase. The problem with the lens flares (and the shaky cameras carried by people running around the action) is that it's an approach to change the entire tone. Rather than being cinematic, where the scenes are portrayed in front of you and it's the narrative that draws you in, it's filmed in such a way to make the viewer feel like he's right in the middle of everything. You don't need good stories or compelling characters because it doesn't need to be gripping. I'd rather have immersion from a great narrative sucking me in than because I feel like I'm trapped inside a bunch of chaos.

To be honest, I'd never noticed the backlighting thing from Spielberg. I suppose it's obvious in retrospect, but I never noticed a connection. However in his case, Spielberg is a master of portraying stories in a compelling way. I never felt like I was trapped in the room with Jillian. When I watched it the other night I was thinking about how terrifying that would be for Jillian (and both she and the boy did a fantastic job, BTW). The bright red and yellow lights from behind the door was a component of the story, not an attempt to make me a part of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: yorost on May 09, 2014, 08:41:08 AM
An arc about the return of the Sisko just as Bajor is falling into chaos without the guide of the prophets. An arc about O'Brien facing a dilemma teaching at the academy. An arc about whatever happened on Cardassia Prime (Damar) and Qo'noS (Martok) after the Dominion war. Arcs with known characters as background and initiators with new characters to continue what they started... infinite diversity in infinite combinations, to boldly go where SciFi and TV have never gone before.
Deep Space Nine was more or less given the green light on relaunch books to do whatever, because Paramount wasn't going back to that property. There was a really great written form Season 8 for the series, which culminated with a hardcover book, Unity. That series of books hit on most of those points, but you do realize Damar is dead, right? It kept going after that first set, but fell apart miserably soon after. They got onto a bad arc involving the mirror universe (who'd have thought?) and dropped where they were going in lieu of major changes.  I've read where they went after I quit and I just can't understand why they would piss on Deep Space Nine the way they did. ...still, had a nice run going for Deep Space Nine fans to continue the story in a way that honored the series. Highly recommend it for Deep Space Nine fans, just read up until Wolrds of Deep Space Nine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine_relaunch

Going back to explore these things (assuming new stories, not following the books) on film just isn't going to work. Deep Space Nine ended itself for better or worse. Yes, lots of threads left unanswered, like Bajor to Federation, but you could see where they were going. It will flop in the movies and it's totally unreasonable for a new tv series. The costs to bring back a niche project within a somewhat niche franchise can't be worth their possible returns. As an avid fan of DS9 I hope they never touch it again. It was great as is and the books offer a satisfying fill-in.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The Dark Master on May 09, 2014, 08:10:05 PM

A hint to the next movie was revealed to be " A huge moral dilemma ".

Someone online ( maybe here ) said they should find a way to restore the original timeline at the point of divergence - therefore erasing the last 30 years of their history. Thereby saving both Romulus and Vulcan and getting Spock Prime back to where he belongs. Plus it would end the third film back in the original timeline - leaving the three JJ movies as their own - alt universe franchise - and someone else can take over...

Sounds cool but I dunno if they would just wind up saying "none of this ever happened" - although that would be pretty funny / clever from a writing perspective.

That would be awesome.  I'm not going to hold my breath, but I think it's far from impossible.   My understanding of the whole "reboot" was that it was done less for the sake of wiping the slate clean and more for the sake of not wanting to be beholden to the existing timeline, while at the same time not wanting to give the impression to casual film goers that you need to be a fan of the established series to enjoy the new films.

Let's play a game of " Who Would You Like To Direct Star Trek 3 " and see if we can list our suggestions without bitching about the previous two movies !

My list would be :

• Joseph Kosinksi - Because Tron legacy and Oblivion are both gorgeous films.
• Chris Nolan - I'd love to see what he could bring to a Trek Universe.
• Joss Whedon - He cares about plot and characters and can clearly do action.
• Spielberg - because that would be all kinds of awesome - just keep Lucas away.
• Edgar Wright - mates with Pegg - directed a scene in Into Darkness ( Kronos ) - knows how to write cohesive stories with through lines.

Kosinksi would be a great choice as long as he has a good script to work with.  He's really got a great head for the more technical side of sci-fi, so Trek would be right up his alley.

Nolan would be totally wrong for ST.  His minimalist aesthetic wouldn't really work with a more visually complex setting that is, by nature, very flashy, and his penchant for non-linear editing would be a potential nightmare considering how convoluted some Star Trek stories can become.

Whedon would probably be the best best of all those guys.  He's great with characters, even with very large casts (he should have directed the TNG movies, IMO), and while I think Firefly/Serenity is a bit over-rated, he does understand science fiction.

Spielberg could be good.  Even moreso then Kosinski, though, he really needs the right script before hand to make the most of Trek, and unlike Kosinski, I don't think Spielberg has enough of a sci-fi oriented mind to write one on his own.

Wright could be interesting.  I think the best potential in having him direct the film would be the opportunity for Pegg, and possibly Karl Urban, to actually have some degree of control and input over the story and script.  From the interviews I've seen since Into Darkness came out, those two guys really seem to understand Trek, and while they were a bit to polite to just come out and say it, they seemed to think that the current direction of the franchise was misled.  If having Wright direct would help bring some real understanding of Trek, via Pegg and Urban, back into the writing of the films, then I would be all for it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on May 09, 2014, 10:07:27 PM
From that list, Whedon and Nolan would be my picks. Not from that list, I'd pick Aronofsky but then again I'd pick him for most anything.

Whedon is good with characters and with mixing humor, action and darkness and making even the shittiest writing fun. I think him helming a Trek film is awesome and entirely logical.

Nolan would be good at injecting at least some intelligent ideas back into the franchise or, at the very least, the veneer of them. Whether he handles them well or whether he gives in and lets his excesses take control is another thing.

Kosinsky I can't say much about as both Tron and Oblivion were little more than blips in my movie watching: adequate, but not very memorable.

Spielberg would be cool, but he's such a veteran now. I'm sure, given a good script, he could probably make a great film but I've rather see someone newer take on the franchise. Frankly, I'd rather have Lynch, Cronenberg or Mallick take over the franchise or do a single film in it before Spielberg, mostly because they would probably do something fucking weird. :)

I like Wright, but I just don't think his style would work that well for Trek. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see a Wright helmed Trek film being... very Trek-like.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on May 10, 2014, 01:35:47 AM
...you do realize Damar is dead, right?

Yes of course, but he was pretty much the last named public figure left. And I don't really see plain and simple Garak as a politician, he told the truth far too often, especially when he lied. :biggrin:

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 10, 2014, 03:49:16 PM
On TNG - almost nobody ever leaves a room on the first try. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 10, 2014, 04:02:24 PM
Oops double post.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on May 11, 2014, 01:11:09 AM
On TNG - almost nobody ever leaves a room on the first try. :lol

As soon as I read your line I thought of Data heading towards the ready room door and Picard saying "...and Mr. Data... well done!" :lol

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 14, 2014, 02:56:13 AM
*Posts news that Bob Orci is directing Trek 3*

* Waits for El Barto & Blob to Explode in rage*

* Gets popcorn *

;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 14, 2014, 04:17:27 AM
Saw it earlier, and was going to post it.
https://badassdigest.com/2014/05/13/paramount-hires-guy-with-no-directing-experience-for-star-trek-3

And come on, to be fair, that is a completely shitty choice. He has no directing experience that I know of, and he's not even good at his regular job to begin with. I predict this will continue the steep downhill trend of the new movies.

JJ and co need to stay far away from Trek. They need to put someone in charge who understands the franchise while he gets his thrills with Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 14, 2014, 04:40:28 AM
I agree with Blob.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 14, 2014, 04:56:16 AM
If it was a notoriously shitty director id be more worried but he may yet surprise everyone.

As usual I'm gonna wait til the film is out. Unless other more worrying news surfaces.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 14, 2014, 12:03:08 PM
No explosion from me. I naturally think it's a silly choice, but since I don't really consider this Star Trek anyway I have no personal interest in it. Maybe it'll be a good movie; probably won't be. Don't honestly care either way.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 23, 2014, 11:33:57 AM
.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on May 31, 2014, 09:08:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hCQsRFC.gif)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 31, 2014, 09:15:17 AM
:lol That's great. Uhura is the funniest. I wonder if they've tracked others, since they did this throughout a lot of Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 31, 2014, 10:24:46 AM
That is cool. It's great how they all go different directions.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 31, 2014, 10:28:05 AM
The different directions look hilarious once you cancel out the camera movement. But I thought they usually coordinated their directions. Was this just an earlier TOS episode, or did TOS not direct their movements as they did in later series?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 31, 2014, 10:31:54 AM
Dunno, but like you, I really hope somebody does more of those. One problem though is that most of the time the camera shook, rather than fell to one side. In fact, I'd bet a fiver that's Balance of Terror, because it's so rare for the ship to just fall over like that. They were probably all used to the bumping around thing, where different directions would work much better. This might have been new to them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on May 31, 2014, 10:35:46 AM
As a Trekkie I would say the inertial dampeners as well as artificial gravity were probably compromised. So, it shouldn't be too surprising if they all get pulled into different directions.

As a non-Trekkie I would say, yeah, they probably didn't think a guy 50 years later would create an animated gif that exposes this :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 31, 2014, 10:38:59 AM
I just checked Balance of Terror, and you'd be keeping your money, Barto. There's another ship hit earlier in the episode with the same camera move, but without a big crew reaction.
Any earlier episodes where they do it? I don't want to go and check a dozen episodes for them, but I'd give them a good skim if I knew I was searching the right episode.

As a Trekkie I would say the inertial dampeners as well as artificial gravity were probably compromised. So, it shouldn't be too surprising if they all get pulled into different directions.

As a non-Trekkie I would say, yeah, they probably didn't think a guy 50 years later would create an animated gif that exposes this :lol

I believe the official explanation (or at least from people who worked on the show) is that the inertial dampeners compensate for known movements, such as ship acceleration and turning, but not so much for a sudden unexpected impact like the ship getting hit, which is why there's some movement.
Kind of like how noise canceling headphones cancel out repetitive noises like engines, but not other sudden noises, I would say.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 31, 2014, 11:03:45 AM
I just checked Balance of Terror, and you'd be keeping your money, Barto. There's another ship hit earlier in the episode with the same camera move, but without a big crew reaction.
Any earlier episodes where they do it? I don't want to go and check a dozen episodes for them, but I'd give them a good skim if I knew I was searching the right episode.
No dice, mate. I'd be taking your Kangaroo money. Balance of Terror after the atomic mine hits them 41 minutes in.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 31, 2014, 11:24:09 AM
I just checked Balance of Terror, and you'd be keeping your money, Barto. There's another ship hit earlier in the episode with the same camera move, but without a big crew reaction.
Any earlier episodes where they do it? I don't want to go and check a dozen episodes for them, but I'd give them a good skim if I knew I was searching the right episode.
No dice, mate. I'd be taking your Kangaroo money. Balance of Terror after the atomic mine hits them 41 minutes in.

That's what I meant when I said you'd be keeping your money, ie. you were right. I never said I'd bet against you on it! :lol Bad wording on my part I suppose.

My kangaroo money is probably worthless anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on May 31, 2014, 11:57:02 AM
A bit late, but I also don't understand why Orci's directing the new Trek film.

I have no idea if he'll be a good director or not.  But, giving him such an important film for his first project is a bad idea.  On one hand, it's almost impossible for him to fail.  But if he does, it will be a disaster. 

Because the film's so big, it's not like he's going to have a lot of power or opportunities to learn.  You know that the cinematographer, editor, art director, composer, etc. will be expected to pull a lot of weight to make sure Orci's inexperience doesn't damage the film.  A first time director needs to be able to make decisions about how a scene is shot, look at the dailies, realize he fucked up, and use that experience to do better in the future.  Star Trek can't fail, so Orci won't be allowed to fail, which means he won't be able to learn, which means he won't be able to become a better director.

Maybe Orci's a directing savant, but you can't make that assumption.  Huge mistake by everyone.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 31, 2014, 12:26:49 PM
I'd actually put my money on failure, and it has nothing to do with Orci. Though profitable, the last one didn't really make enough ROI to keep the studio happy, and it even had fake Khan in it. Either this will be another ST themed transformers or they'll actually decide to make a sci-fi movie. In either case it'll fail. Either by not making enough to justify the 200,000,000 they spend on it or by alienating the masses for a much smaller number of people who want to see real ST. Either way it'll finally be the end of this particular franchise.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on May 31, 2014, 12:58:53 PM
So what you're saying is, they aren't going to get writers who could, you know, come up with a good story to engage people.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 31, 2014, 01:07:56 PM
They haven't yet.

But more to the point, I don't think Star Trek works nowadays. If you could make ST for a small budget, it'd be fine for getting ST fans into the theaters. You can't, though. The special effects are too expensive, so you have to create a Summer blockbuster to suck in the masses. For one thing, that's not ST. Also, now that people have seen it twice, I doubt they'll be as gung-ho for a third. I also think a lot of the popcorn eaters will skip it since JJA isn't attached anymore.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 31, 2014, 01:56:13 PM
Bart, I think the star Trek you love is just not made for a 2 hour movie.  I would be fine with these movies now and have a new series on TV where they can flesh out a storyline.  I miss the Trek 24 episode storyline arcs.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on May 31, 2014, 02:22:21 PM
BTW, looking more at Uhura, I actually wouldn't be surprised if she was directed to do that move. What it achieves is that every part of the screen is in motion, something you want in this case.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 31, 2014, 09:55:01 PM
They haven't yet.

But more to the point, I don't think Star Trek works nowadays. If you could make ST for a small budget, it'd be fine for getting ST fans into the theaters. You can't, though. The special effects are too expensive, so you have to create a Summer blockbuster to suck in the masses. For one thing, that's not ST. Also, now that people have seen it twice, I doubt they'll be as gung-ho for a third. I also think a lot of the popcorn eaters will skip it since JJA isn't attached anymore.

The problem is that these days the action/scifi movies are mostly only made on huge budgets, so they need to either be dumbed down and formulaic, or an easy reboot/remake/sequel, or both to be a safe profit. I wish they were willing to do some lower budget movies, more like the old Trek movies. With today's tech, they could still do a solid job of it. But I agree it probably wouldn't bring in the masses. Their expectations are much higher.

That's one of many reasons I have always felt that Star Trek (and scifi in general) works best on TV, where you don't have that need to make a billion dollars, and the expectation for effects isn't the be-all of entertainment, and you can do those more cerebral episodes among some more action packed ones.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 01, 2014, 05:32:31 AM
It doesn't matter who is directing Trek 3 - they'll only be strong armed into making whatever movie the studio wants anyway.

So you can blame the writing and directing if you want but it may ultimately be Paramount calling the shots.

I would love it if the third movie restored the original timeline and basically said " well that's our universe over with ".

That way if you don't like the JJ era films - you can just dismiss them as an alternate universe that never happened.

It would be as smart as creating the alt timeline in the first place.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 01, 2014, 06:01:36 AM
They haven't yet.


ST09 had a fine story.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 01, 2014, 06:28:38 AM
It doesn't matter who is directing Trek 3 - they'll only be strong armed into making whatever movie the studio wants anyway.

So you can blame the writing and directing if you want but it may ultimately be Paramount calling the shots.

I would love it if the third movie restored the original timeline and basically said " well that's our universe over with ".

That way if you don't like the JJ era films - you can just dismiss them as an alternate universe that never happened.

It would be as smart as creating the alt timeline in the first place.

That's never going to happen. The story a little while back was Orci being involved with a new Trek series set in the new universe. Hopefully that disappears into the wind along with all of the other Trek series rumours, but it seems the most likely scenario, unfortunately. That to me would be the absolute worst case scenario.

And the movie about Kirk and friends all being together at Starfleet and Kirk getting handed everything on a silver platter for being a self entitled rebellious dick for 2 hours was not really a fine story. The casting and execution made it a decent movie, but the script was full of wtf moments. And ST:ID's script was kind of a trainwreck.

Paramount aren't really a scapegoat here. If anything, they reined them in from going too far. JJ wanted a lot more freedom than what he got with the Trek franchise, and thankfully they didn't give it. I mostly blame Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman for being incompetent science fiction writers.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on June 02, 2014, 03:11:51 AM
My Trek apprentice and I just finished TNG on Saturday. She has now seen the 20 TOS episodes I planned, the 6 TOS crew movies, the 40 TNG episodes I planned plus two episodes extra (A Fistful Of Datas, Phantasms) based on her feedback. We then watched Star Trek Generations as a big screen bookend. Overall she liked TNG a lot, though she hates me a little for showing her another movie with the Enterprise getting destroyed. :biggrin:

Looking forward to the DS9 leg starting next weekend.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on June 02, 2014, 06:45:41 PM
A Fistful of Datas? You just wanted to test her tolerance for pain didn't you? ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 02, 2014, 06:53:27 PM
IIt's certainly not a particularly high-brow episode, but I could see it being funny to a younger audience.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 02, 2014, 07:38:15 PM
Man, you got Worf+Troi, a shit-ton of Alexander, Worf being a wannabe badass when he was still quite the pussy of a Klingon, Spiner overacting, all the makings of a bottom 5% episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 02, 2014, 08:55:56 PM
Some more stabilized videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKDQBwpCJg
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 02, 2014, 10:11:54 PM
Damn, that was awful. On the bright side, I found a site with all of them in gif format.

(https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/star-trek-motion-stabilized-03.gif?w=650)
(https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/star-trek-motion-stabilized-04.gif?w=650&h=366)
(https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/star-trek-motion-stabilized-05.gif?w=650)
(https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/star-trek-motion-stabilized-07.gif?w=650)
(https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/star-trek-motion-stabilized-08.gif?w=650)
(https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/star-trek-motion-stabilized-09.gif?w=650)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 02, 2014, 10:14:38 PM
That's much better. The video appears to be taken from the gifs, rather than the other way around, and the gifs are at better speed.
I think I find the Riker one the most amusing of that batch. Maybe the better stabilization helps.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 02, 2014, 10:42:23 PM
I like the second one. McCoy and one of the redshirts are almost perfectly synchronized, while everybody else just launch to the right.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 02, 2014, 10:44:36 PM
I just noticed Sulu's little dance twirl. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on June 03, 2014, 02:41:29 AM
She responded well to the more "out there" episodes, so A Fistful Of Datas and Phantasms were a good fit. And while I agree that A Fistful Of Datas is far from being great, it's quite entertaining to put those characters in a very unusual, out of place environment just for having fun with it, like Q recreating Sherwood Forest. Those episodes were made just for the fun and the actors seemed to enjoy being stupid and over the top for a change as well. Due to condensing seven full seasons down to 40 episodes covering the background development and character evolution there's a lot of drama and big topics with many of the lighter and funnier episodes omitted. But they are an integral part of Trek and I wouldn't want to miss them.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 09, 2014, 11:06:38 AM
I caught A Fistful of Datas the other day.  Yeah, kinda bad, but also more fun than most TNG episodes.  I have no problem with TV shows changing things up once in a while, and TNG usually did it pretty well.


I know that there are a few of us here old enough to remember The Carol Burnett Show.  We used to watch it religiously.  It was easily the funniest show on TV.  But I don't remember this sketch.

The Carol Burnett Show - Star Trek Parody (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-WBKah3uwg)

I have no idea how funny most people would find this; it's definitely an artifact of its time.  But I was dying here at my desk at work, trying not to laugh too loudly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 09, 2014, 12:18:58 PM
Because of all the stabilized GIFs:

Wil Wheaton and Jeri Ryan reminisce about acting during battle scenes on the bridge. (https://youtu.be/O7_Yd3_M8iQ?t=21m4s)

Watch until 22 minutes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 09, 2014, 12:37:35 PM
We were just looking at Jeri Ryan pictures today at work lunch, talking about how her character saved VOY from total mediocrity.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 09, 2014, 02:06:04 PM
Well, it went from a mediocre show to a mediocre show with bigger boobs, so I guess that's a step up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 09, 2014, 02:11:48 PM
I concur.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 09, 2014, 02:13:59 PM
Overall it was a mediocre show, but I think 7/9 infused the show with a much-needed believable antagonist, the Borg. Plots drastically picked up after 7/9's introduction.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 09, 2014, 02:29:24 PM
She ramped the crew tension up, which was something that it desperately needed. By bringing the Borg into the mix it also became quite a bit darker, something else that was needed. Aside from that, Seven was a pretty interesting character. None of the rest of them had much to offer in the development regard, aside from The Doctor, so that was a big help. By and large I still think it was a better series than several of the others, and Jeri Ryan's tits had very little to do with it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 09, 2014, 02:33:37 PM
I agree that the show got better after 7 of 9 was introduced, but it's hard to attribute that solely to 7 of 9 or even Jeri Ryan's boobs.  There's still the possibililty that the writers would have figured out what incredible potential they had in this show and they may have found their stride.

Oh hell, who am I kidding?  They never figured it out even with Jeri Ryan's boobs to work with.  The Kazon were stupid, but Species 8472 were pretty awesome.  I actually liked them more than The Borg because they were original and different, and reminded me of that one species from Babylon 5 that I can't remember the name of, but they were all CGI too.  Yeah Jeri's boobs pretty much saved the show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 09, 2014, 02:48:11 PM
What's interesting is, despite the overall series being mediocre, they had some of the coolest episodes of all series. "Year of Hell" was damn cool, and so was the episode where the crew is falling apart and realize they're the copies from an earlier episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 09, 2014, 03:00:42 PM
There were actually very good episodes scattered throughout the series. I suspect that if you were to sort out TNG and VOY into Great, watchable and shit, they'd come out quite similarly. The whole Kazon thing certainly didn't help their cause, nor did Neelix. Still, the writing and the cast weren't as bad as people give them shit for.

It would have been interesting had they kept the street-gang theme with the Kazon, instead of just turning the all into mindless punks.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 09, 2014, 03:02:50 PM
Voyager had a good cast and I liked the characters.  Problem is that I watched the whole show from start to finish as it aired when I was a kid, and barely remember it.

EDIT:  Except for Threshold.  My god.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 09, 2014, 03:06:05 PM
The Kazon started off interesting, but the problem I had was that Voyager (the ship) was supposedly making a bee-line toward our sector.  How did we spend most of two whole seasons and never leave their space?  We should've left them in the space dust after a few episodes, tops.

TV shows seem to always want to have a "recurring bad guy" and I understand that, but I thought the whole premise of Voyager tailored to break that mold, actually break new ground in terms of storytelling and, even better, Star Trek storytelling.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 09, 2014, 03:13:16 PM
Voyager had a good cast and I liked the characters.  Problem is that I watched the whole show from start to finish as it aired when I was a kid, and barely remember it.

EDIT:  Except for Threshold.  My god.
I did the same thing, and mostly hated it when it was done. Years later I rewatched it and decided it was far better than I thought. Darker and more tension than most ST.


TV shows seem to always want to have a "recurring bad guy" and I understand that, but I thought the whole premise of Voyager tailored to break that mold, actually break new ground in terms of storytelling and, even better, Star Trek storytelling.
One of several things they planned but fell apart on. And if it had been different sects the whole way it would have been alright. The problem was with it always being those Nistrum nimrolds. Like I said, they should have stuck with the street-gang theme. Constantly passing through different territories and dealing with different conflicts.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 09, 2014, 03:56:27 PM
Orcus, yeah, the whole Kazon thing made very little sense, especially given how archaic they felt. They never felt like the kind of race that could command a large swath of space.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 09, 2014, 04:27:12 PM

EDIT:  Except for Threshold.  My god.

:lol SO bad.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 09, 2014, 09:38:40 PM
Oh hell, who am I kidding?  They never figured it out even with Jeri Ryan's boobs to work with.  The Kazon were stupid, but Species 8472 were pretty awesome.  I actually liked them more than The Borg because they were original and different, and reminded me of that one species from Babylon 5 that I can't remember the name of, but they were all CGI too.  Yeah Jeri's boobs pretty much saved the show.

They ditched the Kazon years before 7 of 9 even joined the show. Their last appearance was the 2 parter between S2-3, and She appeared in the opener of S4.

The show did improve dramatically when she came into the show, but that's because they recognized the weaker cast, brought in a great new character, focused more on the best characters out of the rest, and more importantly, it also coincided with the transition to full CG for all space effects, which freed them up to do a lot of cool scifi ideas that the earlier series couldn't have done. They also came up with the idea of the Doctor's mobile emitter halfway through season 3, which allowed them to use one of their best characters more freely in a wider variety of episodes.

A ton of my favourite Trek episodes are from those 7 of 9 era years of Voyager, and it's a lot more than just Jeri Ryan's ample rack. Not that I'm complaining about that of course, as it certainly didn't hurt, but she was one of the best characters regardless.

And while Threshold was bad, there are other equally bad episodes in Trek. TNG did a similarly stupid episode with the entire crew turning into animals all over the ship. Every series has its share of equally bad stinkers, except maybe DS9, which had a pretty high average.

And I'm not including Spock's Brain in that. That episode is just good fun. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on June 09, 2014, 09:44:04 PM
Oh hell, who am I kidding?  They never figured it out even with Jeri Ryan's boobs to work with.  The Kazon were stupid, but Species 8472 were pretty awesome.  I actually liked them more than The Borg because they were original and different, and reminded me of that one species from Babylon 5 that I can't remember the name of, but they were all CGI too.  Yeah Jeri's boobs pretty much saved the show.
And while Threshold was bad, there are other equally bad episodes in Trek. TNG did a similarly stupid episode with the entire crew turning into animals all over the ship. Every series has its share of equally bad stinkers, except maybe DS9, which had a pretty high average.
Nah, DS9 had the one where Quark dresses up like a woman and tries to seduce some Ferengi because... um profit or something. The episode is not painfully, "Threshold" bad, but it's pretty bad.

And you didn't like "Genesis?" Aw, that is a dumb one but I still find it pretty entertaining, unlike some of the other bad ones.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 09, 2014, 09:49:29 PM
Oh hell, who am I kidding?  They never figured it out even with Jeri Ryan's boobs to work with.  The Kazon were stupid, but Species 8472 were pretty awesome.  I actually liked them more than The Borg because they were original and different, and reminded me of that one species from Babylon 5 that I can't remember the name of, but they were all CGI too.  Yeah Jeri's boobs pretty much saved the show.
And while Threshold was bad, there are other equally bad episodes in Trek. TNG did a similarly stupid episode with the entire crew turning into animals all over the ship. Every series has its share of equally bad stinkers, except maybe DS9, which had a pretty high average.
Nah, DS9 had the one where Quark dresses up like a woman and tries to seduce some Ferengi because... um profit or something. The episode is not painfully, "Threshold" bad, but it's pretty bad.

And you didn't like "Genesis?" Aw, that is a dumb one but I still find it pretty entertaining, unlike some of the other bad ones.

I like most of the Ferengi ones, except for the later ones where they decided that Ferengi should have human morals and ruined them. If it focuses on Quark, I usually like it. He often ended up doing the "right" thing, but at least he always felt bad about it. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on June 10, 2014, 04:39:57 AM
My Trek apprentice and I planned to start DS9 last Saturday after finishing TNG the weekend before. But I suspected she was hesitant to try something new as she didn't want to start the day with DS9 so we decided to watch the two J. J. Treks first. She was in the mood for some Cumberbatch anyway, also the two movies are completely safe when it comes to spoilers for the remaining Trek we are yet to watch. Her summary was pretty much "cool effects, nice action, no substance".

Then we went back to the original plan. She confirmed my suspicions about her hesitance of moving on to a new show but she was ready to give it a try. And guess what, she really liked Emissary a lot. Sisko's great voice and very different style, badass Kira, O'Brien's farewell to the Enterprise, the station's design, the wormhole aliens trying to understand linear existence, Dukat's ominous diplomacy. I told her a little about the cultural background of the Ferengi and she immediately tried to hate Quark. But by the next episode Q-Less (not a great episode but dammit it's Q and she loves Q) she already started to like his greedy scheming and clever plotting.

Can't wait for the next weekend and really jumping into the story.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on June 10, 2014, 04:42:24 AM
Sorry, double post, delete.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 10, 2014, 08:17:23 AM
And while Threshold was bad, there are other equally bad episodes in Trek. TNG did a similarly stupid episode with the entire crew turning into animals all over the ship. Every series has its share of equally bad stinkers, except maybe DS9, which had a pretty high average.
This is certainly true, and part of the point I made earlier about dividing each series into great, watchable and shit. They all break down about the same. Hell, half of TNG's first season is as bad as VOY got. Strangely, VOY's first season is pretty strong, most likely due to it being strike-shortened. There really weren't any duds in there, and the cast didn't spend too long working into their characters (probably because they never really developed).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 10, 2014, 10:13:01 AM
I tried watching some Voyager after a TNG marathon and the cast are all so dull and wooden. It's like the bridge is helmed by a collection of planks.

Neelix is about the only one who doesn't speak in a bland monotone voice.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ZirconBlue on June 10, 2014, 10:22:15 AM
The Kazon were stupid, but Species 8472 were pretty awesome.  I actually liked them more than The Borg because they were original and different, and reminded me of that one species from Babylon 5 that I can't remember the name of, but they were all CGI too.

The Shadows?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 10, 2014, 11:16:17 AM
I had to look it up.  The Vorlons.  This is one of their ships:

(https://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv255/Correctness/Babylon%205/babylon5_vorlon.jpg)

And this is a Species 8472 Planet Killer ship:

(https://www.st-intelligence.com/ship_database/fed/images/8472bio2_main.jpg)

Something about the markings and the biomechanical nature of the ships seemed very similar to me.  Looking at them together now, not so much, but you can kinda see it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on June 10, 2014, 04:50:12 PM
Watching "The Naked Now" at the moment.

All you haters can sit and spin...   I get a big LOL out of this episode.   It's fun and I like it.  :metal   :xbones
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on June 10, 2014, 05:15:25 PM
It's on BBC America and it's now going into Code of Honor.    Say what you want about the first season on TNG, but I suppose what I like about it is that the MAJOR cheese factor makes it feel a lot like TOS. 

Keep in mind that when this first came out, TOS was the only thing out there to compare it to.   To most, it probably would have seemed much like Gene pretty much picking up where he left off.    Sure it seems lame by later season standards, but I think it holds up well for what it was at the time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: FreezingPoint on June 10, 2014, 05:39:33 PM
It's on BBC America and it's now going into Code of Honor.    Say what you want about the first season on TNG, but I suppose what I like about it is that the MAJOR cheese factor makes it feel a lot like TOS. 

Keep in mind that when this first came out, TOS was the only thing out there to compare it to.   To most, it probably would have seemed much like Gene pretty much picking up where he left off.    Sure it seems lame by later season standards, but I think it holds up well for what it was at the time.

I never thought about that. Probably a good idea too, because then people just have to get used to a new cast. I wasn't around, but I'm guess it must have been huge, a Star Trek without Kirk, Spock and McCoy and of course the inevitable comparisons.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 10, 2014, 10:08:21 PM
Well, the difference is that in the late 80's we'd all come to grips with the fact that there was good TOS and cheesy TOS. Nobody takes Spock's Brain seriously, after all. At the same time, nobody though GR was trying to be cheesy on purpose as an homage. It was just a string of crappy episodes out of the gate when they should have been loaded for bear. There's also the fact that TOS probably wasn't quite as cheesy in the 60's as it was 20 years later. Farpoint, Naked Now and CoH (I believe the first three) all sucked from the moment they aired. It'd be like if TOS began with The Savage Curtain, Who Mourns for Adonis and The Way to Eden. We'd be reminiscing about it like we would about Batman, and Adam West would have been TJ Hooker and Lake Bell.

As for comparisons, they really weren't comparable at all. They still had phasers and photon torpedoes (not that they ever used them), but much like the JJA movies, they were just different stories set in a somewhat familiar universe. I honestly didn't mind them too much when they first aired, but I certainly didn't think of it like it was part of TOS or anything.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 18, 2014, 05:46:17 PM
A neat thing about ST is that you'll notice something once, even after however many years, and then see it constantly. The most recent thing that I can't unsee is that anytime there's a task to be done, they'll usually get one of the main characters to do it, no matter how trivial. "Establish a tractor beam, Mr. LaForge." Is that really what you need your chief engineer to do? Voyager was particularly bad about it (although I've only recently started seeing this and it's what I've been watching of late). The other day, they're going into battle against the freaking Borg, and Neelix is manning the tactical station. Not due to crisis or anything, either. Apparently there's just no commissioned officer trained for bridge duty that isn't one of the main cast. Janeway was assisting in surgery the other night. Has Voyager ever sent a security team on an away mission? They're all over the ship, but nobodies never beam do planet or ship.

Maybe the reason it's so easy to commandeer a starship (or space station) or steal a shuttlecraft is because there are never more than 8 people around who aren't fat, lazy and out of practice to the point of worthlessness.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 18, 2014, 06:26:17 PM
I noticed on TNG that anytime someone from starfleet arrived alongside Enterprise D - they *always* turned up in an Excelsior class ship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 18, 2014, 06:51:12 PM
I noticed on TNG that anytime someone from starfleet arrived alongside Enterprise D - they *always* turned up in an Excelsior class ship.
Just as often they'd not show anything at all. Either way it was about money. They didn't really adopt CGI until VOY and midway through DS9, so all of those rendezvous shots in TNG were models and motion control photography. Just inventing the Excelsior would have cost a fortune, so instead of creating new ships they kept it and either reshot or used stock footage whenever possible. The only other ships you'd see were modifications to the existing models. I seem to recall that they cannibalized Reliant for a variety of different ships. Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the new ships they did show in TNG were using parts of the Excelsior model, as well.

Also, the thing was the B52 of it's day. It began service midway through Kirk's career and was still in service throughout DS9. What's that, a hundred years? Stands to reason that there were hundreds built, and probably made up the bulk of ships until the Borg and Dominion started blowing up their fleets.

edit: tons of info on the Excelsior model and ship models in general at MA:
https://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Studio_model#Kitbash
https://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Excelsior_class_model
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on June 19, 2014, 09:50:57 AM
I remember in the Nitpicker's Guide to TNG, they mentioned how many times they used the same shot of the Enterprise orbiting a planet in different episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 19, 2014, 09:59:36 AM
I remember in the Nitpicker's Guide to TNG, they mentioned how many times they used the same shot of the Enterprise orbiting a planet in different episodes.

Same goes especially for TOS too, and other Trek series, or just about any scifi show really. It's just what they have to do to save some production costs. It's also why they couldn't ding up Voyager throughout its run (or even do the "Year of Hell" idea as a whole season of the show), or part of why they couldn't do a planned refit of the Enterprise NX-01 in Enterprise. Gotta reuse them stock shots!

Did you know that TNG only ever had two different shots of the Enterprise D going to warp, both created for the first episode? (I think that even includes the one in the intro credits)
The slit scan process they used to create the warp effect was so time consuming and costly that they never did it again until Generations, and that would have been CG by that point.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 19, 2014, 10:02:30 AM
It's also why they couldn't ding up Voyager throughout its run

That was one of the many things that bothered me about Voyager's seven-year voyage.  That ship should've been beaten to hell by time they got home, but looked factory-fresh for seven years.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 19, 2014, 10:47:02 AM
Voyager was CGI from the get-go. It wouldn't have been that bad. And they did beat the hell out of it all the time (and add various enhancements). You never saw any changes to 1701D, regardless of how bad it got shot up. Though it's certainly still cheaper to be able to use the stock footage, even if it' CGI. I know part of the transition to CGI included the company that did it maintaining a database of all of the footage so it could be used over and over.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 19, 2014, 11:01:39 AM
Voyager was CGI from the get-go. It wouldn't have been that bad. And they did beat the hell out of it all the time (and add various enhancements). You never saw any changes to 1701D, regardless of how bad it got shot up. Though it's certainly still cheaper to be able to use the stock footage, even if it' CGI. I know part of the transition to CGI included the company that did it maintaining a database of all of the footage so it could be used over and over.

Voyager didn't switch to primarily CG until S4. In the first 3 seasons, they used CG rarely, for things the studio model couldn't do, such as the landing legs, and jettisoning the warp core.
It wouldn't have made a huge difference though. It still means more money per episode to create new shots. The Year of Hell season idea would have been during the exclusively CG years, and they still couldn't do it.

CG is obviously easier to set up than a huge 5ft filming miniature of a ship, but it still costs money to get the effects house to modify the CG models, and re-render it, and this was still in the '90s when CG was a newer process for television, and for Trek.

Enterprise was the first and only Trek series so far to be exclusively CG from the start, and they were able to do some carry over damage during the S3 Xindi storyline, at least towards the tail end, which was nice. The same effects house was able to do cumulative damage for BSG, but Voyager was just a bit early yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 19, 2014, 11:27:47 AM
Since this is your business, after all, I won't argue with you, but I was of the opinion that VOY was CGI from the start, and once it was established that it was damned effective, they started using it on DS9 for the last few seasons (the reason we finally got to see big-ass fleet battles). That would make it around season 4 or so of DS9.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 19, 2014, 11:42:32 AM
A neat thing about ST is that you'll notice something once, even after however many years, and then see it constantly. The most recent thing that I can't unsee is that anytime there's a task to be done, they'll usually get one of the main characters to do it, no matter how trivial. "Establish a tractor beam, Mr. LaForge." Is that really what you need your chief engineer to do? Voyager was particularly bad about it (although I've only recently started seeing this and it's what I've been watching of late). The other day, they're going into battle against the freaking Borg, and Neelix is manning the tactical station. Not due to crisis or anything, either. Apparently there's just no commissioned officer trained for bridge duty that isn't one of the main cast. Janeway was assisting in surgery the other night. Has Voyager ever sent a security team on an away mission? They're all over the ship, but nobodies never beam do planet or ship.

Maybe the reason it's so easy to commandeer a starship (or space station) or steal a shuttlecraft is because there are never more than 8 people around who aren't fat, lazy and out of practice to the point of worthlessness.

I mean, the obvious reason of course is the "cost" of introducing characters. From a storytelling perspective it's much better to have a small set of people, because then over time a history between the characters gets established, which then can create tension. As an example, sure, it's ridiculous to have your bridge helmsman (Paris) fly a shuttle, but if Kes happens to need a flight, you can expand and explore their tension.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 19, 2014, 11:57:13 AM
Since this is your business, after all, I won't argue with you, but I was of the opinion that VOY was CGI from the start, and once it was established that it was damned effective, they started using it on DS9 for the last few seasons (the reason we finally got to see big-ass fleet battles). That would make it around season 4 or so of DS9.

The intro sequence I believe had 2 shots of a CG Voyager, but it was only used a handful of times in the first 2 seasons. The third season was transitional, still mostly using models at the start of the season, but by Scorpion was all CG. Season 4 onwards was exclusively CG, with no new model shots. So it really depends on how you want to judge it, but S3-4 is when it became the standard.

I believe S4's Starship Down was DS9's first dabble with CG, but was still using mostly models through S4 and 5. Once they got to the big Dominion battles like Sacrifice of Angels, they were definitely all CG.

Voyager was using more CG earlier than DS9, and you're right that it helped the decision to switch on DS9, but I think they probably made the full switch around the same time.
I know there's info about it somewhere, probably on memory alpha, but I can't be bothered searching right now. It's also made a bit more difficult due to both series still using the physical stock shots until the very end. DS9 was using the studio model of DS9 itself until the very end, and the only time it was ever CG was the very last shot of the entire series, with the big zoom out from the window.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 19, 2014, 12:00:03 PM
A neat thing about ST is that you'll notice something once, even after however many years, and then see it constantly. The most recent thing that I can't unsee is that anytime there's a task to be done, they'll usually get one of the main characters to do it, no matter how trivial. "Establish a tractor beam, Mr. LaForge." Is that really what you need your chief engineer to do? Voyager was particularly bad about it (although I've only recently started seeing this and it's what I've been watching of late). The other day, they're going into battle against the freaking Borg, and Neelix is manning the tactical station. Not due to crisis or anything, either. Apparently there's just no commissioned officer trained for bridge duty that isn't one of the main cast. Janeway was assisting in surgery the other night. Has Voyager ever sent a security team on an away mission? They're all over the ship, but nobodies never beam do planet or ship.

Maybe the reason it's so easy to commandeer a starship (or space station) or steal a shuttlecraft is because there are never more than 8 people around who aren't fat, lazy and out of practice to the point of worthlessness.

I mean, the obvious reason of course is the "cost" of introducing characters. From a storytelling perspective it's much better to have a small set of people, because then over time a history between the characters gets established, which then can create tension. As an example, sure, it's ridiculous to have your bridge helmsman (Paris) fly a shuttle, but if Kes happens to need a flight, you can expand and explore their tension.
Yeah, I get that, but why do you need to introduce characters? There's no harm in having unnamed, generic redshirts do they day to day tasks. I think the concern was that if they have a single line, "arming photon torpedoes," you have to pay them SAG money. So rather than do that you get Neelix's pathetic ass to do it? There were 135 crewmen on Voayger.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on June 20, 2014, 12:40:58 PM
Speaking of DS9, my Trek apprentice and I ended last Saturday with 2x26 The Jem'Hadar and will continue with 3x01-02 The Search and more awesome season three episodes tomorrow. Can't wait to see her reaction to the Defiant and the founders. :biggrin:

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 27, 2014, 03:17:22 PM
Quote from: kotowboy
Charlie ‏@david0akes  5m
@realboborci What do you think of the news of NASA's real life Warp Ship Enterprise ? I want to join NASA to get a ride on that !
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Quote from: Roberto Orci
‏@realboborci
@david0akes "What do you think of the news of NASA's real life Warp Ship Enterprise ?"  Hate it.  Violates canon;)

Haha ! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 27, 2014, 03:23:03 PM
He's hardly one to talk, but that actually is a damn clever reply.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 27, 2014, 03:25:17 PM
You can't violate canon that doesn't exist but yes it was. i liked it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 27, 2014, 03:48:40 PM
He's hardly one to talk, but that actually is a damn clever reply.

The Day El Barto praised Bob Orci's writing. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 27, 2014, 03:53:44 PM
Shame he doesn't just stick to [intentional] comedy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 27, 2014, 09:44:43 PM
I consider that warp ship closer to Trek canon than anyting Orci spat out. It's at least based on the ISS Enterprise ringship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on June 27, 2014, 11:52:57 PM
I imagine a scenario at a convention with J. J. dead on the floor with a bat'leth in his chest, the police asking, "Who killed J. J.?".
Hundreds and hundreds of fans in full uniform flock around the scene, including a few storm troopers and friends crashing a Trek con.
Slowly and one by one they proudly raise their hands and voices to speak the words, "I killed J. J.!". The Spartacus scene comes to mind.
One out of place young girl at the completely wrong kind of con probably says, "I volunteer as a tribute!", and gets arrested.
And the Sci Fi sun shone a little brighter that day. :biggrin:

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 29, 2014, 11:11:37 PM
So, I watched two Trek episodes recently.  I'll do one post at a time to not do a massive word vomit.  First, the Corbomite Maneuver.

Spoiler Free Review - If you haven't watched it before it's really worth watching.  Cool story.




SPOILERS




The Corbomite Maneuver, to me, had a lot of the stuff that doesn't and does work on TOS.  The pace is really, really slow.  McCoy was a bit too much of an asshole.  Some of the tension between the characters was very melodramatic.  I liked where the Bailey plot ended up, but the drama was painted in ridiculously broad strokes.  He wasn't just green, he was totally incompetent and emotionally unfit.  It makes Kirk look like an idiot to promote him.  The way they got out of the tractor beam situation felt a bit too convenient and technobabbly.

On the other hand, this episode ruled.  While the pace was a bit slow, I was riveted every second.  What is this cube?  What's it trying to do?  If we keep going, what will we see?  Star Trek in general is best when it creates situations that force the characters to make extremely difficult and consequential decisions under pressure.  The corbomite bluff is so great because Kirk gambling with his crews' lives with nothing but air.  And the whole time he knows how cool he is for even trying this.  The conclusion is also a great Sci-Fi concept.  It's such a radical twist on where you think it's going to go.  You feel like what's happening is so dark and consequential, and it's a jolly kid in a colorful play room trying to test them.

One funny thing - He says that he uses the alien to talk to people because no one would be scared of him.  But when his true self is revealed, I jumped out of my skin.  A kid plastered with makeup talking in an adult voice?  **shivers**

I give this one a 4/5.  Totally engaged the whole time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 30, 2014, 08:10:28 AM
One of my very favorites of TOS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on July 02, 2014, 08:38:03 PM
Still running this.

Saw Conundrum recently too.

This is a TNG episode, and a good one.  If you haven't seen it, I'll just say that that mystery is really cool and unfolds in a satisfying way.



SPOILERS



Maybe my favorite thing about this episode is the Riker/Ro sub-plot.  Whenever I see Star Trek deal with this kind of stuff, it's usually very awkward.  Here though, it works.  There's a lot of chemistry between the characters, and the flirty dialog actually is fun and has real sparks to it.  This episode also makes me dislike counselor Troi's character more.  It's like every time she showed up it was to ruin the great moments with awkwardness.  I've never seen her be useful.  The only scene I've liked of hers was the beginning, where she was playing chess with Data and being very nice and caring and stuff.  Otherwise, it seems like her purpose is to say some variation of "I'm really sensitive to emotions, and I feel a lot of what was already very obvious to the audience."

Anyway.  The person I was watching this with pointed out that this episode shows a pretty clear difference between Picard and Kirk.  Kirk would have read the falsified orders and just done them without question.  Picard was more willing to think about what was happening and really question it.  I thought it was a little silly how only Troi questioned what was going on in the beginning, but I also know everything as an audience member.  It's hard to say how I would feel if I were there.

There's also a great little Picard moment where Crusher asks for more resources to restore the medical records.  Picard says "that's our next priority" even though Worf didn't care, because he knew Worf wouldn't challenge it.  Moments like these are good reminders why Picard runs the enterprise.  People like the idealism, and for good reason.  But he also can be a smooth operator than he needs to be.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 02, 2014, 09:01:35 PM
Anyway.  The person I was watching this with pointed out that this episode shows a pretty clear difference between Picard and Kirk.  Kirk would have read the falsified orders and just done them without question.  Picard was more willing to think about what was happening and really question it.  I thought it was a little silly how only Troi questioned what was going on in the beginning, but I also know everything as an audience member.  It's hard to say how I would feel if I were there.
Troi beating Data at chess is one of the cheesiest things ever shown in a particularly cheesy series.

How Kirk might have compared with Piccard is always interesting. In this case, I'm not sure it would have been any different. They knew there were significant questions about their mission before they got to the space station. Kirk wouldn't ignore those questions, though he might well give more weight to the import of their mission. Moreover, Kirk would be no more likely to fire on an [essentially] unarmed space station. You'll recall him shutting down all defense and weapon systems when Excalibur was preparing to blow them to hell and back because he knew a fellow startship commander wouldn't fire on a defenseless ship. He was certainly more of a cowboy, but he wasn't a madman.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on July 02, 2014, 11:33:45 PM
Troi beating Data at chess is one of the cheesiest things ever shown in a particularly cheesy series.

It is cheesy, but it's also a nice moment.  She's showing him something different and winning a bit while still being helpful and friendly.  I like the humanity of it.

What I find interesting is that, like The Corbomite Maneuver, it's a scene where a logical character bases his thinking in chess, and his chess-thinking is shown to be limited.  Is this a recurring theme on purpose?

Quote
How Kirk might have compared with Piccard is always interesting. In this case, I'm not sure it would have been any different. They knew there were significant questions about their mission before they got to the space station. Kirk wouldn't ignore those questions, though he might well give more weight to the import of their mission. Moreover, Kirk would be no more likely to fire on an [essentially] unarmed space station. You'll recall him shutting down all defense and weapon systems when Excalibur was preparing to blow them to hell and back because he knew a fellow startship commander wouldn't fire on a defenseless ship. He was certainly more of a cowboy, but he wasn't a madman.

Given what you're saying, I kinda have to agree.  He'd probably question it less on the way there.  But once he saw how extreme his leverage over the command ship was, he'd try to negotiate before opening fire.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 03, 2014, 08:30:41 AM

What I find interesting is that, like The Corbomite Maneuver, it's a scene where a logical character bases his thinking in chess, and his chess-thinking is shown to be limited.  Is this a recurring theme on purpose?
Even more interesting is that Spock, like Data, draws a strong association between chess and logic, yet in TCM it's Poker that Kirk uses to save the ship; impressing Spock. Where I think there is a recurring theme, which is also present with Data/Picard (albeit more heavy handed and one-sided) is that it takes both logic and humanity to save the day. It's Hemispheres in Sci-fi TV form. Particularly once you throw McCoy into the mix, you've got Spock-Apollo, McCoy-Dyonysis and Kirk-Cygnus, constantly demonstrating the bridge and interconnectedness.

With Data and Picard it's usually just "you have a lot to learn about humanity, my pale friend!"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 03, 2014, 10:02:26 AM
When TNG first came on, people were trying to draw parallels between the casts.  The TOS triumvirate was Spock=Logic, McCoy=Emotion, Kirk=Balance.

In TNG, Data was obviously Spock, Picard was Kirk, and the obvious "emotion" analogue was Troi.  That kinda left Riker out of the loop, and he was the First Officer, so some people tried to argue that he was really the McCoy (the "real McCoy" -- ha, I just thought of that) but that's just plain reaching.   He did have a more impulsive side to him, though, emulating a lot of Kirk's "cowboy" diplomacy, etc.  But for pure animal impulse and emotion, there's Worf.  So complicated.  I think the conclusion, such as it was, was that an obvious parallel didn't exist.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on July 03, 2014, 10:13:25 AM
The parallels aren't the bigger issue.  The Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic is very rich because you have three characters with strong views who are are very willing to represent and argue for those views.

Shit, let's even just compare Spock and Data.  Spock's view limits his thinking, but it's who he is.  In Journey to Babel (SPOILERS) he's willing to potentially let his father die because of his duty to command the Enterprise while Kirk is injured.  This is a complex moral question.  And while your brain naturally tells you "you have to do the blood transfusion!" it's not entirely logical.  Spock would tell you that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.  It makes Spock interesting and compelling that he lives by this code.  Considering the pros and cons of Spock's choices is interesting for the audience.

In TNG, Data has a lack of humanity to him.  He sees this as a deficit he wants to fix, and is never totally successful at it.  And other members of the crew are making sure to let him know about it.  It's actually kinda sad.  To me, Data's actually most interesting when he's unabashedly an android.  It gives him a perspective that's different from the rest of the crew.

I guess the overall point I'm making is that Spock is a highly logical character who's very thought-provoking and engaging.  Data is a highly logical character without the same level of intrigue or intellectual depth.  I actually like him most when he's totally willing to be an android, because it makes him very unique.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 03, 2014, 10:13:42 AM
If anything, Riker was Kirk. Ladies Man, impulsive but calculated. Picard just didn't have an equivalent in TOS; he is the diplomat,, reserved and quiet. At best, he shares the quality of restraint with Spock.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 03, 2014, 11:12:35 AM
The parallels aren't the bigger issue.  The Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic is very rich because you have three characters with strong views who are are very willing to represent and argue for those views.
Which is exactly why I bag on TNG so much. There is no passion there, and as such no conflict. That's why Riker is the only one there I think worth a fuck. Since you pointed it out yesterday I skimmed through Conundrum and Riker banging Ro is the perfect example of that. Nobody else on that ship would have done it.

Except ironically, Data perhaps. Go figure.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 03, 2014, 11:16:08 AM
Banging Michelle Forbes, man .... just to think of it.  :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 03, 2014, 11:26:38 AM
To late.  My 20 something past has already nibbled on her Bajoran earring many times......
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 03, 2014, 11:44:49 AM
You know those ridges on her forehead and the bridge of her nose?  Did you know that Bajoran women also have ridges like that on their...

Oh, sorry, I forgot that we like to keep things PG-13 around here.  Anyway, that's what I've heard.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 03, 2014, 11:52:19 AM
Ribbed for his pleasure.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 03, 2014, 12:23:25 PM
You know it.  :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on July 04, 2014, 03:13:48 AM
https://twitter.com/SirPatStew/status/484816187982114816

 :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on July 05, 2014, 12:48:41 AM
So I finally actually watched Best of Both Worlds.  If you haven't seen it yet, you should.



SPOILERS



The first episode is virtually perfect.  It's like they light a fuse at the very beginning by saying the Borg arrived and it keeps burning and burning until the episode explodes and Picard is a Borg.  The buildup of tension is and the way it's constructed to build this tension is so good.  The Riker plot, about his feelings on command, is also very good.  It gets the emotions right.

The second part isn't quite as good, but still excellent.  By the time you get to the part where the Borg cube just obliterated 40 different Earth ships like nothing, the episode is like a nightmare.  It's so hopeless.  But then, you get to see Riker step up and do some commanding.  The way they get Picard off the cube and make him a human again not only doesn't feel like contrived bullshit, but it's actually essential to solving the plot, which is a great piece of structure.  When the Borg get to Earth, there's a real sense of threat.  If the Enterprise fails, humanity is doomed.  Such huge stakes!  This also makes the ending very interesting.  When Data puts the Cube to sleep, they debate whether or not to destroy it.  Data notes the scientific value of exploring it.  But Riker makes the correct decision to blow it up.  While this choice goes against the usual values of Star Trek, the Borg are such an extreme threat that it feels earned and not like action schlock.

5/5.  What a ride.

Side note - I like how they talk about how the Borg function based off a "root command" and how different levels of the collective consciousness have more or less restricted access.  Sounds like Linux/Unix.  Or, if nothing else, actual computer science.  Makes the Borg a lot more interesting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 05, 2014, 04:01:42 AM
"Best of Both Worlds" remains my favorite piece of Star Trek ever. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 05, 2014, 08:50:52 AM
The original Borg as imagined in TNG were the ultimate enemy. Without morals, completely decentralized and thus almost impossible to kill off.
Bummer they compromised that concept for the movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 05, 2014, 08:54:19 AM
Well, in the end, the Federation will always find a way and at some point, even the invincible will fall.



Without the Federation there is no show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 05, 2014, 09:03:10 AM
To some degree I understand the cinematic reason for introducing the Borg Queen. A generic audience wants a clear enemy, and closure once they enemy is defeated.
I still think they could have defeated the original Borg in the movie. Something cool like, say, a Denial of Service attack, i.e. overwhelm the Borg with a myriad small attacks, and then sneak in a Trojan horse. Bummer is, they had already used the strategy to retrieve Locutus.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 05, 2014, 09:06:24 AM
Now that I get!  I still feel on the whole, that movie was much better than the other NG films.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 05, 2014, 09:42:54 AM
The next that aired, "Family" is also good, and is something of an epilogue to the amazing two-parter.  Jean-Luc takes some well-deserved time off and visits his brother and his brother's family on Earth, and he reaches a catharsis.  They made "family" the theme of the whole episode, so there's a few other interweaving stories (including a horrible Crusher subplot), but it's worth it for the Picard story.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on July 05, 2014, 10:44:16 AM
The original Borg as imagined in TNG were the ultimate enemy. Without morals, completely decentralized and thus almost impossible to kill off.
Bummer they compromised that concept for the movie.

There's a scene in part two I like where Picard/Locutus talks about how the Borg are trying to improve quality of life.  It does the smart thing and gives them a point of view (because no one thinks they're the bad guy), but that point of view makes them creepier.  To them, this is good?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 05, 2014, 11:13:56 AM
They assimilate other species and cultures that they encounter, making their "species" stronger, comprised of the best of everything they know.  This is all done with an ultimate goal of sacrificing individuality to the betterment of the collective, but they are highly efficient and unfettered by emotion.  This can certainly be seen as "better" from a certain point of view.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 06, 2014, 04:21:25 PM
They were just pinko Commie bastards in disguise!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on July 06, 2014, 06:33:26 PM
"Best of Both Worlds" remains my favorite piece of Star Trek ever.

Agreed.  I remember I first watched it in syndication - I had just started to get into TNG (real time) during Season 4, so the station I was watching Seasons 1-3 on at aired Part 1 on a Friday.  I had to wait all weekend to find out what was going to happen!!  I couldn't imagine waiting 4 months when it originally aired as the perfect season ending cliffhanger.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 06, 2014, 07:14:43 PM
Patrick Stewart said in an interview that that cliffhanger  was the worst, in the sense that people would recognize him at stop lights, pull down their windows and yell at him from their cars "what the hell, dude?!" :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 06, 2014, 07:27:28 PM
The Best of Both Worlds > First Contact.

All Good Things > Every TNG Movie.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 06, 2014, 10:30:22 PM
Seems about half of us were around at the time to see Best of Both Worlds actually as a cliffhanger, rather than just seen back to back. I honestly thought part two was a real letdown. It's not terrible or anything, but like several other TNG two-parters, the second half just fell flat for me. They never really manage to keep up the second half of cliffhangers.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 06, 2014, 10:46:24 PM
Agreed.  At the end of Part I, there's a real feeling of "Oh shit, what can possibly happen next?" which of course is the whole idea.  This is resolved in the first 30 seconds of Part II, and then it's on with the show.  As you said, it's not terrible, but I think most of us were expecting a much bigger payoff than we got.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 06, 2014, 11:04:33 PM
Redemption was kind of similar. You had the whole Klingon civil war going on, which was great, and Worf running off to actually act like a Klingon for a change. Part two you have Picard and Tasha Yar's daughter, and Data learning to be a captain. Again, I thought it was a perfectly good episode, and I always love Data being in command, but as a conclusion to part one it was a letdown. Then there's Time's Arrow which was great in part one, and absolutely dreadful in pt 2. Descent was an exception in that it just sucked ass from beginning to end.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 07, 2014, 12:01:21 AM
The Best of Both Worlds > First Contact.

All Good Things > Every TNG Movie.

I'd say All Good Things was better than all but First Contact, but it's not movie material. The Best of Both Worlds was great, but I'd give the edge to First Contact. Had TBOBW been done as a movie instead though, I think it definitely could/would have been better than all of them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: lonestar on July 07, 2014, 12:28:28 AM
Redemption was kind of similar. You had the whole Klingon civil war going on, which was great, and Worf running off to actually act like a Klingon for a change. Part two you have Picard and Tasha Yar's daughter, and Data learning to be a captain. Again, I thought it was a perfectly good episode, and I always love Data being in command, but as a conclusion to part one it was a letdown. Then there's Time's Arrow which was great in part one, and absolutely dreadful in pt 2. Descent was an exception in that it just sucked ass from beginning to end.

I would say one sure exception was Chain of Command Pt. 2 The climactic scene with Picard and the Cardassian was so damn brilliant.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on July 07, 2014, 02:13:06 AM
My Trek apprentice and I had a very nice Saturday with four great and diverse (drama, fun, treachery, action) DS9 episodes: The Visitor, Little Green Men, Homefront, Paradise Lost. I decided to throw in Star Trek First Contact next. It was about half a season too early in the timeline but without any real impact as she's just seen Worf in command of the Defiant in Paradise Lost. She liked the Borg episodes a lot so a TNG crew adventure and the Enterprise E were a welcome change in our list of DS9 episodes. She enjoyed the strong episodes and the movie a lot. On with the rest of DS9 S4 in five days.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The Dark Master on July 07, 2014, 02:32:02 AM
Redemption was kind of similar. You had the whole Klingon civil war going on, which was great, and Worf running off to actually act like a Klingon for a change. Part two you have Picard and Tasha Yar's daughter, and Data learning to be a captain. Again, I thought it was a perfectly good episode, and I always love Data being in command, but as a conclusion to part one it was a letdown. Then there's Time's Arrow which was great in part one, and absolutely dreadful in pt 2. Descent was an exception in that it just sucked ass from beginning to end.

I would say one sure exception was Chain of Command Pt. 2 The climactic scene with Picard and the Cardassian was so damn brilliant.

Chain Of Command Pt. 2 is quite possibly my favourite episode of Star Trek ever.  Just watching Stewart and Warner, two masters of the art of acting, playing off of each other like that is awe-inspiring.

That being said, because Chain Of Command was in the middle of a season rather then being a season finale/premier, it wasn't as much of a cliff hanger as it could have been.  It's one thing to have to wait a week, it's something else entirely to have to wait 4 months
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 07, 2014, 05:53:49 AM
All good things definitely tied everything up nicer than Nemesis did.

And it definitely had the scale and scope to be a movie.

I'm surprised they never had Q in a movie. They probably felt that after AGT that he was no longer needed and he *kind of* ended up as a good guy and

making him a bad guy again would be too much of a 180 or that having him in a movie would resolve any crisis in a jiffy.




Although - an interesting idea could have been if Q showed up to take the Enterprise to an area of space that not even the Q had visited because he's obviously so arrogant that he thinks he can solve anything in an instant - but then there is something there that takes away his powers and threatens the ship. You could have Q learning to actually act like a crewmember and become an actual valuable member of the team...

Then at the end when they resolve the problem - and Q's power returns he's learned way more about what it is to be human and blah blah.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on July 07, 2014, 06:11:32 AM
^ ... Um, Deja Q??
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 07, 2014, 06:13:12 AM
Um... you could say the same for BOBW and First Contact ? !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 09, 2014, 06:44:29 PM
Watched STID again last night.


:dunno: I enjoy it. It's a fun movie. Nowhere near the disaster everyone makes it out to be.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 10, 2014, 05:11:23 AM
It's a disaster.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 10, 2014, 05:53:47 AM
I dug it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 10, 2014, 06:07:20 AM
It's a disaster.

This forum is a disaster.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on July 10, 2014, 11:01:56 AM
It's a disaster.

This forum is a disaster.
Your mom's a disaster... in bed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 10, 2014, 11:07:02 AM
It's a disaster.

This forum is a disaster.
Your mom's a disaster... in bed.

Depends.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on July 10, 2014, 11:15:04 AM
It's a disaster.

This forum is a disaster.
Your mom's a disaster... in bed.

Depends.
Depends on the bed?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 10, 2014, 11:20:49 AM
When you're old....yes.



Think of a product named Depends.  I await your facepalm.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 10, 2014, 01:31:05 PM
They should have found a way to keep Captain Jelico around for a while. At that point in the show they were damned short of ideas, and the shakeup he brought would have really made it much more interesting. Even another 4 or 5 episodes would have been fine. Maybe pull a Crissy Snow and have him phone up each episode and say "my rehab is progressing fine. I expect to be back at the end of the 6th season, Number One."

Also, since when is Riker the best pilot on the ship and the only one capable of delicate flying?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 10, 2014, 01:41:03 PM
I kinda liked Captain Jellico.  Yeah, he was a hardass and expected things done a certain way, but that's probably more common in the military than Picard's laid-back style.  For the drama, they made him a bit of a dick, but he'd come around a bit by the end.  If they'd figured out a way to bring him back, he could've been even less of a dick and it would've been fine, merely an extrapolation of the character.

And I share your WTF at Riker being the best pilot.  100% plot contrivance right there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 10, 2014, 01:48:16 PM
It's a disaster.

This forum is a disaster.
Your mom's a disaster... in bed.


She died in 1997. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 10, 2014, 02:03:18 PM
I kinda liked Captain Jellico.  Yeah, he was a hardass and expected things done a certain way, but that's probably more common in the military than Picard's laid-back style.  For the drama, they made him a bit of a dick, but he'd come around a bit by the end.  If they'd figured out a way to bring him back, he could've been even less of a dick and it would've been fine, merely an extrapolation of the character.

And I share your WTF at Riker being the best pilot.  100% plot contrivance right there.
At times he seemed like a pretty nice guy. When he first came aboard he was excited and jovial. The second time he met with the Kardies (after flipping out on them the first time) he seemed downright magnanimous (albeit for only a minute or two). Where I run into a problem is figuring out what to do about Riker. Data was the best possible XO he could hope for; they were made for each other. While the tension with Riker is part of what made it all work, I have a hard time putting all of the pieces together.

While the timing was off by a few months, he would have been an interesting commander of DS9. He would have been far more believable as outright resenting the whole emissary role, and he understood and despised the Kardassians. Would have made for an entirely different version of what we all agree was an awesome show, but it would have been damned interesting to see that play out. Besides which, Ronnie Cox is just far better than Avery Brooks. Brooks didn't become worth a damn until they turned him back into Hawk, which they were so adamantly opposed to from the beginning. Jelico was already most of the way there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 10, 2014, 02:14:59 PM
Yeah, I'm trying to think of a time Ronnie Cox was ever not awesome.  I've always liked him (yes, even on "Apple's Way").

Jellico (two L's, dammit!) was clearly created to be like an anti-Picard.  Family guy, puts his kids' artwork on the walls, but a hardass on the bridge.  Picard was always chill, but didn't really open up to people.  It seemed so obvious that the more unlike Picard they made him, the more opportunites there would be for conflict and drama, which was pretty cheesy for them to do.  But that didn't mean he was a bad character.  The character itself was cool, largely due to Ronnie Cox being awesome.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 10, 2014, 04:00:53 PM
Yeah, I'm trying to think of a time Ronnie Cox was ever not awesome.  I've always liked him (yes, even on "Apple's Way").
There's a scene in Beverly Hills Cop that perfectly defines his character which is all on Ronnie Cox; they probably should have given him a writing credit for that one improvised bit. After Axl Foley conjures up the "alternate story" about how the titty-bar bust went down and the other two detectives fess up, Axl chastises them for "fucking up a perfectly good lie." Bogomil has to stifle a very slight chuckle while keeping up the authoritative demeanor. It establishes Bogomil as both a genuine hardass (which was already demonstrated), and a human enough guy to appreciate everything he just saw (I would have been rolling). My understanding is that was one of the bits that they improvised on set, and it perfectly explains why he can be a tyrant at work yet still the sort of guy that can get along well with a Foley-type maniac. All Ronnie Cox.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 10, 2014, 04:36:26 PM
That was a great scene.  Actually, pretty much every scene in the movie, but any with Bogomil.  He saw that Foley was a character and needed to be kept on a short leash, at least at first, but also saw that he had genuine skills and never put him down.  A good captain works with what he has, and Foley was an asset, not a liability.  I remember Bogomil being impressed that Foley knew about coffee grains when his own people didn't.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on July 10, 2014, 09:42:13 PM
The Best of Both Worlds > First Contact.

All Good Things > Every TNG Movie.

I can get behind this.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 10, 2014, 10:29:22 PM
The Best of Both Worlds > First Contact.

All Good Things > Every TNG Movie.

I can get behind this.
I agree with both statements taken individually. However, where I have a problem is that in conjunction they suggest that FC isn't the best TNG movie. It was pretty crappy all things considered, but it was still the best of the lot. I enjoyed Insurrection more, but it also suffers the same faults and also doesn't really seem much like a movie. I think we all agree that it's just a 2 hour episode filmed with a bigger budget. FC seemed fitting of a big-screen and still had entertaining stuff going on, despite being pretty crappy ST (and introducing the damned Borg queen).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 11, 2014, 05:20:03 AM
Generations is the only one that *feels* like a movie to me.

Maybe Nemesis too but not as much.

And yeah - FC is great the first time you see it. I find it rather boring on repeated viewings - worse with Insurrection.

I always love generations.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 11, 2014, 07:50:00 AM
And yeah - FC is great the first time you see it. I find it rather boring on repeated viewings - worse with Insurrection.

Yeah, what's up with that?  We saw it in the theater, and it blew us away.  The opening sequence, the visuals throughout, the scope of the whole thing.  Then I caught part of it years later on TV, and it couldn't keep my attention.  Once I knew the concept and how the story played out, there wasn't a whole lot left, I guess.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 11, 2014, 07:53:10 AM
Yup, exactly the same with me. While I would say FC is probably the better "movie movie", Generations strangely has better replay value.
As an aside, as great as FC is, it has the single most annoying scene of any Star Trek movie. The scene where Data's emotion chip overloads is almost unbearable to watch because I just want to throw Data into an airlock and hit the button.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 11, 2014, 10:06:39 AM
The character of Data, and Brent Spiner's portrayal of him, were both very, very good throughout the series and the movies for the most part.  There was great potential to explore, and they generally did that very well.  But wow, there were a few missteps IMO, and that scene was one of them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 11, 2014, 11:46:38 AM
The entire emotion chip premise was a misstep. Data's biggest strength as a character is as a dispassionate observer of humanity; that was the whole point.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 11, 2014, 11:53:48 AM
Maybe true, but it's inevitable that as a sentient synthetic being, he would want to experience everything that his organic counterparts experience, and that includes emotions.  He can see that it affects their actions and thought processes in ways he doesn't understand, and he wants to understand.  And to do that, he must experience it himself.  Granted, it's all "pre-programmed" but to him that's as real as it's gonna get, and there are always the philosophical arguments about whether or not we're all pre-programmed in a way anyways.

So I'd say that him somehow getting to experience emotions was bound to happen sooner or later.  The question was how it would play out, and how well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 11, 2014, 12:01:07 PM
So I'd say that him somehow getting to experience emotions was bound to happen sooner or later.  The question was how it would play out, and how well.
Well, right. It would have made for an episode or so worth of exploration. The truth is that we can't view humanity as objectively as he does, which makes him a valuable character. We do feel emotions, so him learning what he feels like to be scared shitless doesn't make for good viewing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 11, 2014, 12:06:21 PM
I think it was just a problem of continuity. Data had spent the whole TNG series being Pinocchio and making progress step by step, and for the movies, where supposedly many years had passed, they had to show another progression. It's just the choice of dedicating an important plot scene to Brent Spiner's uber-annoying laughing fit impression ... was poor.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 11, 2014, 12:09:27 PM
One thing about Brent Spiner's Data is that I can generally enjoy it on at least two levels.  I thought the character was mostly well written, but I also thought that the acting was superb.  I agree that seeing Data flip his shit isn't really that interesting, but seeing Brent Spiner playing Data flipping his shit is pretty cool.  I can still appreciate the acting performance even if the material is bleh.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 11, 2014, 12:17:05 PM
Possibly controversial :

I think Brent's Data is the most believable "robot" character that's ever been seen on film.

You watch TNG and it's like - yep he's an android - not an actor in make up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 11, 2014, 12:21:25 PM
He was one of the best cast decisions by Roddenberry. Problem, for me, was when he was asked to act different characters. While he had honed the role of Data to a T over the years, many of his other characters were more a mockery than anything else.
Over the years I have concluded that Brent Spiner is actually a pretty bad actor.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 11, 2014, 12:55:47 PM
I think Brent's Data is the most believable "robot" character that's ever been seen on film.

You watch TNG and it's like - yep he's an android - not an actor in make up.

I completely agree.  There was an entire section in my previous post about how I can watch TNG and not even see Brent Spiner, just Data the android, but I cut it out because it seemed to maybe contradict what I was saying about admiring Spiner's amazing performances.  I just left in the part about enjoying it on both levels.

Problem, for me, was when he was asked to act different characters. While he had honed the role of Data to a T over the years, many of his other characters were more a mockery than anything else.

I liked his mad scientist in Independence Day, although some might argue that that was a caricature, which supports your point.  But he played it well.  He also did some good one-off characters guest starring on things like Leverage and Warehouse 13.  But I've seen some pretty over-the-top characters from him as well, so I see where you're coming from.

Over the years I have concluded that Brent Spiner is actually a pretty bad actor.

I think it depends upon the role and how seriously he takes it.  Also, some directors may hire him and expect a certain type of thing, so it's not always his fault.  Having seen him do at least a few things other than Data that I thought were pretty good, I can't agree.

My problem with Brent is that, after seeing and hearing all of his Data and Lore voices, pretty much anything he says or does reminds me of one of them.  That's isn't necessarily his fault either, though.  Data and Lore had a huge range between them, and there's only so much Brent can do to change his voice.  So maybe "somewhat limited" applies, but I don't consider him a bad actor.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 11, 2014, 01:56:27 PM
He was one of the best cast decisions by Roddenberry. Problem, for me, was when he was asked to act different characters. While he had honed the role of Data to a T over the years, many of his other characters were more a mockery than anything else.
Over the years I have concluded that Brent Spiner is actually a pretty bad actor.
I certainly agree, but that's an issue with almost all ST actors. The thing is, they create their roles, so they're naturally perfect at portraying their respective characters. Nobody ever accused Shatner of being a great actor, but he is Kirk. He defined him and anybody else is really just trying to do a more subtle version of him. It's therefore pretty easy to see how Spiner is great at being Data. If they'd cast you in the role, you'd be great at being Data because he was your blank slate to define.  DS9 was a fine example of that anytime they did alternate reality episodes. Most of them were terrible at playing other people. That's why the mirror universe episodes were so dreadful.


And as for Data and the emotionalism of the movies, that's the biggest flaw with them, I think. They took well established characters and changed them up entirely for the movies. Picard stops being the rational thinker who solves problems diplomatically and goes all Mel Gibson on everything.  Data stops being Pinocchio in lieu of Peter Pan. Riker and Troi are married. The Borg are now one chick. What's the point, honestly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaPsTA on July 11, 2014, 03:00:23 PM
I'd argue Shatner is a great actor in the same way Clint Eastwood is a great actor.  Doesn't have a lot of range, but works without that range perfectly.  Even if all their characters aren't very different, you completely buy them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 11, 2014, 03:43:59 PM
It occurs to me that Chain of Command is a retelling of the Thrilla in Manilla. Picard, much like Ali, had lost the battle of will. He actually saw 5 lights and was prepared to cop to it (I would have told him anything), but was stopped by outside authorities before he could officially lose. Madred/Frazier actually won their respective battles but lost anyway when the fight was stopped.

Also, I'll bet Worf and Data both preferred being under Jellico's command. Data obviously couldn't express a preference, but the latter was clearly far more his style.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 11, 2014, 04:48:12 PM
That's a good point.  Jellico didn't rub everyone the wrong way.  As I mentioned upthread, I think we the audience were meant to see him as very different from Picard and probably off-putting at first, but that doesn't go for everyone.  Worf was probably thinking "Finally, someone who knows how to take command, dish it out, and not even consider taking it!"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 11, 2014, 10:45:44 PM
He was one of the best cast decisions by Roddenberry. Problem, for me, was when he was asked to act different characters. While he had honed the role of Data to a T over the years, many of his other characters were more a mockery than anything else.
Over the years I have concluded that Brent Spiner is actually a pretty bad actor.

Judging from the other shows I've seen him in, he does seem pretty average. But incidentally, wooden actors actually tend to work great as robots/androids/cyborgs etc for that very reason.

I'd actually love to see Shatner play a robot character. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 12, 2014, 01:54:06 PM
Watched the first few minutes of Farpoint, and as it turns out Cpt. Jellico was actually a helluva lot nicer and respectful to Riker when they first met than Picard. By a longshot, in fact. Jellico was happy to meet him and excited to work with him. He just decided he wasn't up to snuff after a few days. Picard acted like he expected him to suck right out of the gate. Testing him. Ignoring him. Grilling him over his last assignment. According to management 101, Picard's was the right approach, but Jellico's strength of character would have negated the downside anyway.

Also interesting, Riker was actually more like Jellico than anybody else, expecting far more discipline than we'd ever see again. And Crusher was actually quite a cunt towards him. "We on duty? So leave me the fuck alone." Shame they didn't keep her that way. She had a real Pulaski quality to her that would have benefited everybody.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 12, 2014, 04:08:35 PM
Man, Pulaski was one of the biggest failed ST characters though. The times in which TNG plays was supposedly to be all mature and stuff, but she's essentially an open racist (in the sense that she deems Data nothing more than a robot).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 12, 2014, 09:31:17 PM
Man, Pulaski was one of the biggest failed ST characters though. The times in which TNG plays was supposedly to be all mature and stuff, but she's essentially an open racist (in the sense that she deems Data nothing more than a robot).

You know a character is awful when you're excited to get Dr Crusher back.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 12, 2014, 10:21:26 PM
Man, Pulaski was one of the biggest failed ST characters though. The times in which TNG plays was supposedly to be all mature and stuff, but she's essentially an open racist (in the sense that she deems Data nothing more than a robot).

You know a character is awful when you're excited to get Dr Crusher back.
I sure wasn't happy to get her back. I was certainly no Pulaski fan, but she was definitely an improvement over the supremely bland Crusher. At least being bitchy and condescending is a personality trait. Crusher was one of the few castmembers who actually had less character than Geordi, Spot and this guy (https://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121211045829/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/1/10/Relief_tactical_officer%2C_2365.jpg/180px-Relief_tactical_officer%2C_2365.jpg).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 12, 2014, 10:24:08 PM
Well...she was bland....until she got her hands on that DAHM CAHNDLE!!!!    :xbones
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 13, 2014, 04:43:09 AM
I just hated the role of Pulaski. She was grating.

I felt the same about Trio the first season.  Thankfully, they flushed out her character better moving forward.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on July 13, 2014, 08:42:45 AM
I'm pretty sure female characters were never TNGs strong point lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 13, 2014, 08:53:31 AM
No there were plenty of strong women characters in all the series.  Just didn't like them.

I liked,

7 of 9
Lwaxana Troi
Commander T'Pol
Jadzia Dax
And especially Ro Laren
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on July 13, 2014, 01:03:26 PM
Only one of those on TNG and she was an absolute biatch! lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 13, 2014, 01:25:49 PM
38 pages and I think it's time for El Barto to list everything he DOES like about Star Trek :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 13, 2014, 01:29:05 PM
Only one of those on TNG and she was an absolute biatch! lol

 :lol

I misunderstood!  I thought you meant in general, not just TNG.  My bad!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 13, 2014, 01:31:21 PM
38 pages and I think it's time for El Barto to list everything he DOES like about Star Trek :lol
Already have. Besides which,  I like damn near everything about Star Trek. It's just TNG and the two reboot movies that I don't like. Hell, I'm even pretty cool with Enterprise.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 13, 2014, 04:44:57 PM
I've seen very little of Enterprise but I prefer it to Voyager.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 13, 2014, 09:38:10 PM
Talking about forceful reuse of existing of characters: The scene in TMP where Kirk, Nurse Chapel and Scotty try to save the transporting accident. Seriously, those three people are the most capable to fix a transporter malfunction? A fucking nurse, and the captain?!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 13, 2014, 10:37:00 PM
It was Janice Rand, not Nurse Chapel. Presumably being a transporter technician is part of the career path from captain's babe to COB of Excelsior.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 13, 2014, 10:58:29 PM
Talking about forceful reuse of existing of characters: The scene in TMP where Kirk, Nurse Chapel and Scotty try to save the transporting accident. Seriously, those three people are the most capable to fix a transporter malfunction? A fucking nurse, and the captain?!!

Were there others there? I thought it was just that they happened to be there to greet the people, and had to deal with it. I've generally tried to block out TMP though, so my memory could be hazy on that. :lol
Scotty should be qualified for anything technical, and Kirk thinks he can solve everything.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 14, 2014, 08:15:25 AM
It's also possible that Kirk wanted to be the one responsible should/when things go South. He's used to people croaking on his watch. Being at the controls when some twisted puddle of science officer beams aboard could seriously screw up the head of somebody already on flaky ground like Rand.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 14, 2014, 08:22:11 AM
I know this thread is not for the TV shows but I'm a newbie wondering where to start in the Star Trek verse, there's like 4 different Star Trek shows on Netflix.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 14, 2014, 08:25:58 AM
I know this thread is not for the TV shows but I'm a newbie wondering where to start in the Star Trek verse, there's like 4 different Star Trek shows on Netflix.

What makes you think that? This thread is for all Star Trek related stuff. :tup

If you're willing to stick with it, I'd go chronologically, which is Star Trek (the original series) + the first 6 movies, followed by The Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, and finally Enterprise (it's a prequel, but I'd say it still works better watched last given when it was made).
If you find the original series too cheesy, you could safely start with The Next Generation, or just watch the movies with the original cast (1 through 6) beforehand if they're on there. But the first movie is very plodding and dull even for most Trekkies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 14, 2014, 11:30:11 AM
I know this thread is not for the TV shows but I'm a newbie wondering where to start in the Star Trek verse, there's like 4 different Star Trek shows on Netflix.

What makes you think that? This thread is for all Star Trek related stuff. :tup

If you're willing to stick with it, I'd go chronologically, which is Star Trek (the original series) + the first 6 movies, followed by The Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, and finally Enterprise (it's a prequel, but I'd say it still works better watched last given when it was made).
If you find the original series too cheesy, you could safely start with The Next Generation, or just watch the movies with the original cast (1 through 6) beforehand if they're on there. But the first movie is very plodding and dull even for most Trekkies.
You're talking about the president of the Egyptian Bonanza Fan Club here. TOS is not going to be too cheesy. In fact, James T. Kirk will probably completely blow his mind.

I know this thread is not for the TV shows but I'm a newbie wondering where to start in the Star Trek verse, there's like 4 different Star Trek shows on Netflix.
Regardless, Blob's is absolutely the way to go. You've got to take them in order. If 726 total episodes is too daunting for you, like if there's some major life-changing event coming down the pike or something, we could probably come up with a list of crucial episodes of each series. That'd probably knock 2/3 off, except for Deep Space Nine which can't be whittled down much at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 14, 2014, 11:37:10 AM
You're talking about the president of the Egyptian Bonanza Fan Club here. TOS is not going to be too cheesy. In fact, James T. Kirk will probably completely blow his mind.

:lol Fantastic. I don't know progmetty's tastes, so I was keeping it pretty general. If that's too much Trek, it could be cut down significantly, but I wasn't going to jump ahead just yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 14, 2014, 11:44:10 AM
This would probably be my recommended TOS starting list. It's about half, includes good entertainment, good character analysis (including some Spock and McCoy centered episodes) and hits on some of the long running trek themes (prime directive, fucking up the time line, that sort of thing).

Where No Man Has Gone Before
The Corbomite Maneuver   
The Naked Time
Balance of Terror
The Galileo Seven 
The Menagerie, Part I   
The Menagerie, Part II   
The Squire of Gothos   
Arena   
Tomorrow is Yesterday   
The Return of the Archons   
A Taste of Armageddon 
Space Seed 
Errand of Mercy 
The City on the Edge of Forever   
Amok Time
The Doomsday Machine
The Changeling
The Apple
Mirror, Mirror
I, Mudd
The Trouble with Tribbles
Journey to Babel
A Private Little War
Obsession
The Immunity Syndrome
A Piece of the Action
By Any Other Name
The Ultimate Computer
The Enterprise Incident
The Tholian Web
For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Day of the Dove
Wink of an Eye
Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
All Our Yesterdays


Curious to know what other people would think, additions, subtractions, etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 14, 2014, 12:00:34 PM
I just skimmed, so I may have missed one you had.

I would add-
The Enemy Within - the original transporter malfunction, and I think it's a fun episode for Kirk.
Mudd's Women - Not as good as I, Mudd, but I think it's still a good episode thanks to Mudd and the chicks.
The Devil in the Dark - it's cheesy, but it has some iconic moments for Spock and McCoy.
The Gamesters of Triskelion - Not one of TOS's best, but still a classic.

And maybe-
This Side of Paradise - I like Spock's turn here, and Kirk dealing with it.
The Deadly Years - not great or anything, but I think it's a fun premise
Whom Gods Destroy - I really like this one. The characters are a lot of fun, and I like the way it plays out.
The Cloud Minders - A solid take on a scifi standard. And there's that chick who goes after Spock.

Wildcard-
Spock's Brain - It's so bad it's good! It's so notorious for being the worst episode, that I think it's a must. It's stupidly fun.


And I would take out-
Tomorrow is Yesterday - I guess I could go either way on this one. The City on the Edge of Forever is the only time travel episodes I consider necessary for TOS. It has a decent theme in there with the guy they pick up, but overall I don't think it's a great episode. Meh, what the hell, looking over some of the episodes I'm suggesting, keep it.
Obsession - A very forgettable episode to me.




I'm surprised that I'd actually mostly add to your list. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 14, 2014, 12:14:16 PM
Enemy Within, Devil in the Dark, This Side of Paradise and The Cloud Minders were all on my shortlist, and were the last to get the axe. I wanted it pretty close to half. Like you pointed out, TSoP is a great Spock episode. Always cool to see him un-Spock. That's actually why I included All Our Yesterdays, but that also has the advantage of good Spock/McCoy chemistry. And I agree with the Cloud Minders. I just thought it was a touch heavy-handed (although in comparison to some of their other shows, that's probably not the case). Also worth noting, all three of them demonstrate quite well that Spock always gets the better babes. In this case Mariette Hartley, Jill Ireland and Droxine. Hell, for that reason I'd probably include those two after all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 14, 2014, 12:19:18 PM
Yeah, Spock got some good ones. And they usually threw themselves at him, rather than the other way around as with Kirk. :lol

As you can see, I just did a quick 10 minute skim of your list and the episodes to check out each episode, so I didn't put as much thought into it as you, but those were the omissions that jumped out at me. It just depends on where you want to draw the line. You've no doubt covered all of the absolutely essential episodes though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 14, 2014, 03:10:49 PM
I know this thread is not for the TV shows but I'm a newbie wondering where to start in the Star Trek verse, there's like 4 different Star Trek shows on Netflix.

What makes you think that? This thread is for all Star Trek related stuff. :tup

If you're willing to stick with it, I'd go chronologically, which is Star Trek (the original series) + the first 6 movies, followed by The Next Generation, DS9, Voyager, and finally Enterprise (it's a prequel, but I'd say it still works better watched last given when it was made).
If you find the original series too cheesy, you could safely start with The Next Generation, or just watch the movies with the original cast (1 through 6) beforehand if they're on there. But the first movie is very plodding and dull even for most Trekkies.

For some reason I read "The Next Theateration" so I thought the thread was about the new movies heh
They don't have the original series or movies but I'm willing to find it and invest time watching, the only space related show I've seen and enjoyed was BattleStar Galactica and I'm in the mood for more space stuff now.

You're talking about the president of the Egyptian Bonanza Fan Club here. TOS is not going to be too cheesy. In fact, James T. Kirk will probably completely blow his mind.

 :lol
Hey man if I show that quote to the lovely ladies at the Bonanza forums you'll be beaten to death with vintage purses.

Regardless, Blob's is absolutely the way to go. You've got to take them in order. If 726 total episodes is too daunting for you, like if there's some major life-changing event coming down the pike or something, we could probably come up with a list of crucial episodes of each series. That'd probably knock 2/3 off, except for Deep Space Nine which can't be whittled down much at all.

The number of episodes is not daunting to me, one of the reasons I was thinking about this show is that I know there's a lot of it heh

:lol Fantastic. I don't know progmetty's tastes, so I was keeping it pretty general. If that's too much Trek, it could be cut down significantly, but I wasn't going to jump ahead just yet.

Recently I've developed a taste for slow developing simple plotted shows that I use to unwind after a long week day, Bonanza has been my go-to for that. And Suspense and Dragnet on the radio. It's not turning into my main interest or anything and the over-the-top is very entertaining to me hehe
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 15, 2014, 11:40:14 AM
For some reason I read "The Next Theateration" so I thought the thread was about the new movies heh
They don't have the original series or movies but I'm willing to find it and invest time watching, the only space related show I've seen and enjoyed was BattleStar Galactica and I'm in the mood for more space stuff now.
Normally I'd assume sombebody means the new version of BG, but given your fondness for antiquity (and Lorne Green, now that I think about it), you probably mean the old one.  :lol

Anyhoo, before you run out and buy a bunch of DVDs, download The Corbomite Maneuver and see if it floats your boat. I'm pretty sure it will, but you never know.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 15, 2014, 01:48:48 PM
I saw both BSG's! heh
I'll get The Corbomite Maneuver tonight and see where it goes from there, thanks for the recommendations fellas  ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 16, 2014, 08:49:18 PM
Watched The Corbomite Maneuver and starting Where No Man Has Gone Before as soon as I'm done with this post.
To me this show registered as an episode from the second or third Twilight Zone seasons, it's probably the overall vibe of the era that made it feel that way, I liked that though.
It kinda feels like I should have started at the first episode cause here I am watching and not knowing why an alien (Mr. Spock) is among the Enterprise crew, an earth ship with the mission of exploring space for alien life, or why there seem to be people other than the crew living on the exploration ship. But I'll keep going with your recommended episodes and hope it will explain itself.
Few more episodes and if I decided to keep going I'll just watch the entire first season and keep going :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 16, 2014, 09:28:03 PM
There is no beginning or end with TOS. They just pretty much threw the characters out there and left it to you to figure out. Case in point, Corbomite was actually the first episode they produced, but the 9th aired. Where No Man has Gone Before was actually the pilot for that particular series, and some of the characters are different, so really that's the one out of place. Later on Checkov will just show out out of nowhere, and Yeoman Rand will disappear just as inexplicably. As for Spock, they'll certainly explore his character, and how the Vulcans came to be Humanity's bestest buddies will be explored on down the road in the latter series/movies.

Also, the list I posted is in production order, I believe. I just suggested starting with TCM since WNMHGB is a pilot with some different continuity. Most notably a different doctor, and McCoy is integral to the show as the third part of the Kirk/Spock/McCoy triangle.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 16, 2014, 11:50:01 PM
TOS is very episodic, as more shows were back then. You won't gain any more backstory by watching the other/earlier episodes. I watched TOS in completely random order, and I was fine. Except for the fact I started with the best ones and worked my way down. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on July 17, 2014, 01:45:04 AM
...and worked my way down

There'd be no reason to live long and prosper.  :biggrin:

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 17, 2014, 07:42:51 AM
Makes sense, you know what else from the same era and is very episodic? Bonanza  :biggrin:
I really enjoyed Where No Man Has Gone Before, better than Corbomite IMO. Cool plot and acting, special effects were better than I would have expected from the period.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 17, 2014, 07:45:32 AM
Makes sense, you know what else from the same era and is very episodic? Bonanza  :biggrin:
I really enjoyed Where No Man Has Gone Before, better than Corbomite IMO. Cool plot and acting, special effects were better than I would have expected from the period.


It's possible/likely you're seeing the "remastered" version of TOS, where all of the space shots have been replaced with CGI, and they've added a lot of new effects.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 17, 2014, 08:18:32 AM
WNMHGB is a real good episode. The fact that Kirk, Spock and Mitchell were all so tight give it some real punch.

And you probably couldn't even download the non-remastered episodes anymore. For the most part it's a big improvement. Most of the changes were kept quite subtle, except when they're firing phasers or showing multiple ships. I can only think of one time were they were a detriment, but plenty where they really made it look a lot better.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 17, 2014, 05:09:06 PM
The remastered episodes are a great idea for fans of the new films to get into the show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 18, 2014, 07:11:05 AM
Makes more sense now knowing these episodes are remastered, some of the external CGI scenes looked way too good for the period, I wish I could've got my hands on the original episodes though.
The Naked Time last night, pretty good.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 18, 2014, 04:13:51 PM
Seeing the word "manoeuvre" in this thread a few times reminded me of that episode of TNG where one of Wesley's friends died in a shuttle accident and you eventually find out it was down to an illegal manoeuvre that would have been a spectacular send off to their Academy years. However - the mroe they lie - the worse it gets and in the end Wesley confesses.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 18, 2014, 04:19:39 PM
Ah yes, the Tom Paris episode. Pretty good one.
I want to punch the episode writer in the face though for not allowing the use of the connection. It would have given Paris an immediate depth straight from episode one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 18, 2014, 04:53:59 PM
Ah yes, the Tom Paris episode. Pretty good one.
I want to punch the episode writer in the face though for not allowing the use of the connection. It would have given Paris an immediate depth straight from episode one.
Eh, he just wanted to get payed for inventing the character. Honestly, I'd probably blame Berman more than that guy. He really did kind of did rip him off, ya know.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 18, 2014, 05:14:38 PM
Preparing for shit storm - but whatever -

Bob Orci on Stsr Trek 3 :

"  I can tell you that it definitely takes place in [deep] space. They’re finally on their five year mission and that hasn’t been the case in any of the previous movies. 

they’re going to hopefully discover some stuff that you haven’t seen before. "

Also he revealed that him directing it isn't set in stone yet.

I'm optimistic. It was allegedly Lindelof who pushed for Khan in the last film and Abrams who wanted the Alice Eve underwear scene.

That and Orci is actually a Trek fan.

They're writing the script now. 2016 is not that far away - so we should start to get drop fed information from now on I reckon.

:)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 18, 2014, 05:14:57 PM
@EB: I guess I'm just surprised that a paid writer is able to exert that much control over what I would see as Paramount's IP.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 18, 2014, 06:25:16 PM
Well, they weren't just a couple of guys who mailed in a script. Ronald Moore was a head writer and producer, and the other guy was definitely a staff writer. These guys had some pull. Plus, it's not like they were going to use Lacarno once or twice. They were taking their minor character and making him part of the main cast. Easier just to rename him than deal with the legal aspects or pay those two for every single episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 18, 2014, 11:56:15 PM
Preparing for shit storm - but whatever -

Bob Orci on Stsr Trek 3 :

"  I can tell you that it definitely takes place in [deep] space. They’re finally on their five year mission and that hasn’t been the case in any of the previous movies. 

they’re going to hopefully discover some stuff that you haven’t seen before. "

Also he revealed that him directing it isn't set in stone yet.

I'm optimistic. It was allegedly Lindelof who pushed for Khan in the last film and Abrams who wanted the Alice Eve underwear scene.

That and Orci is actually a Trek fan.

They're writing the script now. 2016 is not that far away - so we should start to get drop fed information from now on I reckon.

:)

I'll wait until I see something tangible before I believe anything just yet, as I recall them saying very different things about the script for the last movie, and then it ended up just being a TWOK wannabe for the 3rd time in a row. :lol
I'm not optimistic about Orci either, but we'll see. You know I'm going to watch it day 1 regardless, so it will get a chance.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 19, 2014, 02:04:10 AM
Well keeping secrets was very much JJ's thing and Bob has said he's not going to withhold so much info.

JJ admitted keeping Khan a secret was a mistake and I agree - I preferred knowing it was Khan going in.


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 21, 2014, 05:24:43 PM
Preparing for shit storm - but whatever -

Bob Orci on Stsr Trek 3 :

"  I can tell you that it definitely takes place in [deep] space. They’re finally on their five year mission and that hasn’t been the case in any of the previous movies. 

they’re going to hopefully discover some stuff that you haven’t seen before. "

Also he revealed that him directing it isn't set in stone yet.

I'm optimistic. It was allegedly Lindelof who pushed for Khan in the last film and Abrams who wanted the Alice Eve underwear scene.

That and Orci is actually a Trek fan.

They're writing the script now. 2016 is not that far away - so we should start to get drop fed information from now on I reckon.

:)

I'll wait until I see something tangible before I believe anything just yet, as I recall them saying very different things about the script for the last movie, and then it ended up just being a TWOK wannabe for the 3rd time in a row. :lol
I'm not optimistic about Orci either, but we'll see. You know I'm going to watch it day 1 regardless, so it will get a chance.

I don't see ST09 as a TWOK rehash. Nemesis was absolutely and STID borrowed one scene and twisted it to make a thematic point. Nemesis just stole everything for no reason other than they wanted to go out with a bang and tried to Ctrl-C Ctrl-V the entire movie onto the TNG mould.

Kirk had to die in the engine room in STID because it was hinted from the beginning of the movie. He had to learn to be a leader and not put himself first.

B4 was in Nemesis becasue....Because TWOK !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 21, 2014, 10:54:18 PM
I don't see ST09 as a TWOK rehash. Nemesis was absolutely and STID borrowed one scene and twisted it to make a thematic point. Nemesis just stole everything for no reason other than they wanted to go out with a bang and tried to Ctrl-C Ctrl-V the entire movie onto the TNG mould.

Kirk had to die in the engine room in STID because it was hinted from the beginning of the movie. He had to learn to be a leader and not put himself first.

B4 was in Nemesis becasue....Because TWOK !

ST11 wasn't so much a rehash, but it still had that idea of bad guy out for generic revenge shtick that reminded me of TWOK. The execution was overall quite different, but the basic idea wasn't fresh. ST11's bad guy was far too poorly written to really compare to the backstory of TWOK though.

Nemesis was much more obvious with the personal thing between Picard and Shinzon, and the ship to ship battle to finish off the movie, and I guess you could even make the comparison that the earlier scenes between Picard and Shinzon mirror Space Seed's table scene to try to recapture the entire dynamic.

ST:ID was literally Khan (at least technically, I don't consider it Khan at all), so that comparison is clear. I still maintain the movie didn't have near enough behind it for that death scene to have any impact, so it only screamed TWOK to me, rather than making its own point.


I'm much more optimistic about JJ's involvement in Star Wars than Star Trek right now. It makes me wonder what could have been if JJ had half the respect for the source material of Star Trek as he does for Star Wars. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 22, 2014, 09:09:17 PM
Just finished The Galileo Seven, Barto that list you made me has kicked ass so far!

Quote
McCoy: Mr. Spock, remind me to tell you that I'm sick and tired of your logic!
Spock: That is a most illogical attitude.

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 22, 2014, 09:41:03 PM
That was a good Spock and McCoy episode. I also really liked that Scotty was willing to let Spock take a fair amount of abuse from McCoy since he understood their nature, but he was ready to beat Beaumon's ass when he actually lit into Spock. Scotty became a joke later on, but back then he was a really good character (and always great when he was in command). Anyhoo, coming up is one of the best Spock episodes; loyalty and logic on display. All of the flashback stuff was from the original pilot that didn't make the cut.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 22, 2014, 10:30:42 PM
Yeah, kinda interesting how some of the TOS grew to be interesting, complex characters, whereas others became more of a parody of themselves. Kirk and Spock are in the former category for me, and Bones and Scotty in the latter. Scotty was the ship drunkard used for comic relief, whereas Bones essentially ceased being a doctor altogether and just became a grumpy old man who apparently the others didn't mind having around.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 23, 2014, 08:16:43 AM
Yeah, I never thought about it before, but McCoy did quit being a doctor once they movies came out. There just wasn't much of a need for one in their 2 hour vignettes. He certainly had work to do during Khan's rampage, but that wasn't much of a plot element. He was on hand when Chekov (another caricature character) cracked his head open in TVH. TUC was probably the only time he really served a purpose as doctor. However, McCoy still served the same purpose through all of the movies;  Spock's counterpart to logic.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 23, 2014, 08:43:21 AM
I don't know, when I think of TUC and TVH, Spock had become so normal anyway, the counterweight wasn't necessary anymore.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 23, 2014, 08:44:05 AM
I was half way through the second episode on the list when I realized Uhura is a black woman and not a very tan white woman. Thought it was me then I noticed that every time there's been a black actor on the show so far they've had some sticky looking layer of white coating on their faces, for lack of a better term since I don't know a lot about make up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 23, 2014, 09:00:41 AM
I was half way through the second episode on the list when I realized Uhura is a black woman and not a very tan white woman. Thought it was me then I noticed that every time there's been a black actor on the show so far they've had some sticky looking layer of white coating on their faces, for lack of a better term since I don't know a lot about make up.

How did you not realize she was black? :lol One of my favourite funny moments in TOS is when Space Abraham Lincoln calls her a charming negress. Gotta love '60s television.

I don't know, when I think of TUC and TVH, Spock had become so normal anyway, the counterweight wasn't necessary anymore.

One reason I'm not as fond of Spock's character in the movies, especially by TUC. I think he worked well in TVH though, because everyone was out of their element being in the "past" on Earth.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 23, 2014, 09:10:36 AM
Yeah, coming back from the dead mellowed Spock out quite a bit. Don't dislike him, really, but it does diminish the tension between him and McCoy quite a bit.

And only five episodes in, and Uhura not showing up all that frequently or saying/doing much, I'm surprised he even noticed her existence yet. Really, her whole purpose on the show seemed to have been be black and occasionally sing or offer feminine/Christian/racial commentary. Not dissing her, and clearly Nichelle Nichols inspired a helluva lot of people, but as a character she was barely a cut above Rand or this guy (https://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090306193559/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/3/3a/Leslie_%28Lieutenant%29.jpg/292px-Leslie_%28Lieutenant%29.jpg).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 23, 2014, 09:33:31 AM
Spock dies and returns from the dead?! Looks like this thread is gonna be spoilers town for me from now on :lol
I'll try glancing over posts before I read but probably won't work heh
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 23, 2014, 09:46:21 AM
Spock dies and returns from the dead?! Looks like this thread is gonna be spoilers town for me from now on :lol
I'll try glancing over posts before I read but probably won't work heh
Spoilers won't hurt you much here. And you got a long ways to go before the whole Spock thing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 23, 2014, 10:02:06 AM
Yeah, coming back from the dead mellowed Spock out quite a bit. Don't dislike him, really, but it does diminish the tension between him and McCoy quite a bit.

And only five episodes in, and Uhura not showing up all that frequently or saying/doing much, I'm surprised he even noticed her existence yet. Really, her whole purpose on the show seemed to have been be black and occasionally sing or offer feminine/Christian/racial commentary. Not dissing her, and clearly Nichelle Nichols inspired a helluva lot of people, but as a character she was barely a cut above Rand or this guy (https://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090306193559/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/3/3a/Leslie_%28Lieutenant%29.jpg/292px-Leslie_%28Lieutenant%29.jpg).

As a character she didn't get a lot of development or the character moments of the big guys, but in terms of exposure she was certainly a lot more memorable than redshirt #12 or Rand. And she kissed Kirk. That has to count for something, right? :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 23, 2014, 10:49:07 AM
Yeah, coming back from the dead mellowed Spock out quite a bit. Don't dislike him, really, but it does diminish the tension between him and McCoy quite a bit.

And only five episodes in, and Uhura not showing up all that frequently or saying/doing much, I'm surprised he even noticed her existence yet. Really, her whole purpose on the show seemed to have been be black and occasionally sing or offer feminine/Christian/racial commentary. Not dissing her, and clearly Nichelle Nichols inspired a helluva lot of people, but as a character she was barely a cut above Rand or this guy (https://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090306193559/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/3/3a/Leslie_%28Lieutenant%29.jpg/292px-Leslie_%28Lieutenant%29.jpg).

As a character she didn't get a lot of development or the character moments of the big guys, but in terms of exposure she was certainly a lot more memorable than redshirt #12 or Rand. And she kissed Kirk. That has to count for something, right? :lol
In one of the most painfully bad episodes of the entire series. No, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 24, 2014, 07:23:46 PM
Trying to get through my abridged season 7 of TNG, and I've decided that Descent might be the most painfully stupid episode of the entire series. A lot of them really sucked, but even Casino Royale had a passable premise. Just about every single line of dialog in this one was hard to stomach, and the various plots and premises were worse. And what really gets me is that you can tell they were shooting for a real epic. This was supposed to be meaningful and turned out to be an epic failure on just about every level.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 24, 2014, 07:52:31 PM
Yeah, that one is a clunker. The sketchy plot premise of the mighty Borg suddenly being these drooling imbeciles, and Spiner's overacting over the course of two episodes ... not so good.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 24, 2014, 09:03:05 PM
Wow. I LOVE that episode.

I just don't get being a fan of something, and hating on nearly half the output.

I mean, don't get me wrong. There are Star Trek episodes I don't care for. But with exception of about half of season 3 from TOS, and about half of season 1 of TNG, I adore every single second of the entire run of both series. Even the one about the DAHM CAHNDLE!   :rollin

I have not seen enough of the other three shows to form an opinion,  although I would like to remedy that someday.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 24, 2014, 09:12:09 PM
Don't get the "hating more than half the output" comment. Can't speak for EB, but I certainly like more than 80% of ST (excluding ENT, which doesn't count as ST to me).
And even the clunkers I'll rewatch.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 24, 2014, 09:23:22 PM
Not even close to half. Of TOS and TNG I'll lump about half into the watch category and half into the skip one, but even most of the skips I don't hate. They're just not ones that particularly appeal to me, but I'll still watch them from time to time. Moreover, I like most of DS9, VOY and even ENT. My watch/skip ratio on those is considerably higher. Episodes I truly hate are pretty few and far between.

Descent makes the cut because it's a remarkably poorly written episode. From the basic plot elements, "let's beam everybody down to the surface to search for somebody, leaving only the people least capable of running the ship behind, despite the fact that the Borg have already attacked twice before," to the most basic dialog, "you killed Crosus. I will make you suffer for that." Just painful. "The sons of Soong have joined together, and together we will destroy the Federation."   :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 24, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
Yeah, putting Crusher in charge of the Enterprise was rather nonsensical. That said though, the throwback to the metaphasic shield and that hate relationship between the two bridge officers was kinda cool.

Best "Unusual person to command a ship" is Data though. The whole standoff with the guy who accuses him of being a heartless machine is brilliant. Also the "Understood. Request denied". :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 24, 2014, 09:48:07 PM
I said "nearly", not "more than"...

Still, I retract if I was wrong...I still love Descent....and Spiner's supposed "overacting". I personally think he should have won an Emmy for Masks.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 25, 2014, 04:04:15 AM
I remember Spiner and Stewart saying that shooting Masks was torture because in the scene where Picard and Data face off at the end -

- whoever was delivering dialogue - the other actor would be creasing up off camera and they couldn't get through a single take.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 25, 2014, 12:51:37 PM
New book review: Fun With Kirk And Spock (https://trekmovie.com/2014/07/25/book-review-fun-with-kirk-and-spock/)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 25, 2014, 01:09:31 PM
(https://scifanatic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/fwkas-1-480x313.jpg)
Who's the inquisitive Klingon science officer? I seem to be the TOS guru here, and he's not jumping out at me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 25, 2014, 01:13:28 PM
In the episode "Day of the Dove", it was a Klingon named Mara, but the picture actually shows Kang.  Oops.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 25, 2014, 01:19:44 PM
In the episode "Day of the Dove", it was a Klingon named Mara, but the picture actually shows Kang.  Oops.
I certainly considered Mara. But you're right, that's definitely Kang and the caption's just wrong (Kang was never on the bridge). And I would consider Mara anything but inquisitive.

Bookfail.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 25, 2014, 10:59:35 PM
New book review: Fun With Kirk And Spock (https://trekmovie.com/2014/07/25/book-review-fun-with-kirk-and-spock/)

I saw that posted on the FB page about a week or so ago, and I must get this.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 26, 2014, 01:30:03 AM
Oh yeah, I want that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 26, 2014, 04:17:30 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btdn3dCCQAAOhNk.jpg)


 :lol :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 26, 2014, 04:18:51 AM
Alexander Siddig has joined Game Of Thrones.

Anyone ever looked up his full name ?



" Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi  "

No wonder he changed it to " Alexander Siddig " :p
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 26, 2014, 04:27:05 AM
I knew he had a longer name, but I'd forgotten it was that long. :lol Remember that in the earlier seasons of DS9 he was credited as Siddig El Fadil, before changing it to Alexander Siddig. Siddig El Taj Mahal Kareem Adbul Jabar etc probably isn't the most memorable screen name for an actor trying to get a job.

I don't watch Game of Thrones, but it will be interesting to see the character he plays. I haven't seen him in anything outside of Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 26, 2014, 04:30:44 AM
Watching him on DS9 - i obviously assumed he was English. Then I found out he's half Sudanese.

The name Siddig El Fadil should have been a clue - but he's half English so he only looks middle eastern when he grows a beard :p


Plus - looking at that name - it's like a Christian family calling their son
" jesus Christ Mary Joseph Bethlehem Nazareth Joseph again Jesus H Christ "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 26, 2014, 12:20:09 PM
A lot of actors with Middle Eastern or Jewish names change their names. E.g. do you know who Krishna Pandit Bhanji is, or Jonathan Leibowitz?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 26, 2014, 12:41:26 PM
I will soon ! :D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 26, 2014, 03:32:34 PM
Watching Dark Page right now.   Another episode I feel is very well done, and one of the most emotionally moving episodes of the series.

Also, is it just me?  Or did Majel get sexier as she got older?   In TOS, I thought she was a little "man-ish"....but as Troi's mom, she was just completely different...and kinda hawt.   
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 26, 2014, 04:22:46 PM
Watching Dark Page right now.   Another episode I feel is very well done, and one of the most emotionally moving episodes of the series.

Also, is it just me?  Or did Majel get sexier as she got older?   In TOS, I thought she was a little "man-ish"....but as Troi's mom, she was just completely different...and kinda hawt.
Had to look up Dark Page just to see what the hell it was. Like all Luwaxana Troi episodes it's in the half that hate.  :lol And no, I never saw anything in Majel. She wasn't bad as Number One, but Nurse Chapel did nothing at all for me, and Luwaxana was one of the most annoying aspects of the entire series. She actually made Counselor Troi seem pleasant.

Great as the computer voice, though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 26, 2014, 04:25:10 PM
Well...I admit that the character could be a bit annoying.   But at the same time, there was a certain confidence in herself that was appealing.    :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 26, 2014, 09:19:45 PM
Also, is it just me?  Or did Majel get sexier as she got older?   In TOS, I thought she was a little "man-ish"....but as Troi's mom, she was just completely different...and kinda hawt.

o_O?

I guess to each their own, but she bordered at the "asexual" for me. Or, as we put it in German "you could tie her to my stomach and nothing would happen".

Regarding the episode, I'm with EB on it. Anything with Lwaxana was in the business of digging itself out of the mess the moment she appeared on screen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 26, 2014, 09:27:29 PM
Even the one where she got married naked?   :xbones
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 26, 2014, 09:32:08 PM
Oh god, I was so happy they didn't show any more than that. She just has that ... young grandma feeling to her.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 26, 2014, 09:34:34 PM
I'm with Rumbo.  There was better quality of "Trek Poon" to swoon over.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 26, 2014, 09:48:43 PM
"Angel One" is a good one, having both a hot main actress, and the chick from Knight Rider.

Oh, and of course Famke Janssen in "The Perfect Mate". Yum.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 26, 2014, 10:19:18 PM
"Angel One" is a good one, having both a hot main actress, and the chick from Knight Rider.
Good call on the main actress chick. She had a cute, Teri Garr thing working.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 27, 2014, 05:08:11 AM
Which leads me to the Playboy, Teri Garr photo shoot that of course I saw as a teen.  Like I didn't know where my dad's playboys were stashed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on July 27, 2014, 09:10:26 AM
Lwaxana's best episodes were on DS9. She was actually tolerable there and she had some good chemistry with Odo. The episode where she's going through Betazoid menopause and causing the rest of the crew to fall in love with each other was actually... fairly funny.  :lol

I never found her hot on TNG either. She didn't look bad as Number One on TOS though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 27, 2014, 09:13:59 AM
All time #1 ST "hawt chick" for me would have to be Dr Leah Brahms.   
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 27, 2014, 09:14:50 AM
Lwaxana's best episodes were on DS9. She was actually tolerable there and she had some good chemistry with Odo.

For sure. They were actually pretty decent episodes, and they gave her character a bit more depth. I just found her annoying in TNG.

And sexy is never a word I would use to describe her either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 27, 2014, 09:41:18 AM
Which leads me to the Playboy, Teri Garr photo shoot that of course I saw as a teen.  Like I didn't know where my dad's playboys were stashed.
Teri Garr was never in Playboy. You thinking of Goldie Hahn, perhaps?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 27, 2014, 09:51:23 AM
Lwaxana's best episodes were on DS9. She was actually tolerable there and she had some good chemistry with Odo.

For sure. They were actually pretty decent episodes, and they gave her character a bit more depth. I just found her annoying in TNG.

And sexy is never a word I would use to describe her either.

This is probably way off topic, but you understand that there are really attractive women who aren't sexy, and there are VERY UNATTRACTIVE women who are sexy.    Pretty/attractive is completely and totally different than sexy. 

Sexy involves a way of carrying oneself...a confidence...and a host of other things that have absolutely nothing to do with physical attraction or beauty.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 27, 2014, 10:11:50 AM
Lwaxana's best episodes were on DS9. She was actually tolerable there and she had some good chemistry with Odo.

For sure. They were actually pretty decent episodes, and they gave her character a bit more depth. I just found her annoying in TNG.

And sexy is never a word I would use to describe her either.

This is probably way off topic, but you understand that there are really attractive women who aren't sexy, and there are VERY UNATTRACTIVE women who are sexy.    Pretty/attractive is completely and totally different than sexy. 

Sexy involves a way of carrying oneself...a confidence...and a host of other things that have absolutely nothing to do with physical attraction or beauty.

Sure I get that, I just didn't find her sexy, nor does anyone else in this thread apparently, so she's all yours for the taking! (hypothetically speaking of course, since that was 20 years ago and she's no longer alive, sadly)
She certainly had confidence, and I could see how someone might find that sexy, but I don't personally think her confidence bordered on sexy in any way.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 27, 2014, 11:14:12 AM
I'll chime in and support Lwaxana Troi as being sexy.  I don't find her attractive, and her character was quite obnoxious, but she was definitely sexy.  In general, most women who are one (according to any given person's taste) is also the other, but they're distinct attributes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 27, 2014, 11:15:38 AM
I never had a problem with Lwaxana. She was written to be annoying. That was her character.

She wasn't like Brent Spiner in real life annoying. That's who he is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 27, 2014, 11:16:19 AM
I think if you guys used the word "sensual", I would agree.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 27, 2014, 11:28:31 AM
Which leads me to the Playboy, Teri Garr photo shoot that of course I saw as a teen.  Like I didn't know where my dad's playboys were stashed.
Teri Garr was never in Playboy. You thinking of Goldie Hahn, perhaps?

Not naked but in sexy lingerie and an interview.  For a teen, that was enough.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on July 27, 2014, 11:46:35 AM
Which leads me to the Playboy, Teri Garr photo shoot that of course I saw as a teen.  Like I didn't know where my dad's playboys were stashed.
Teri Garr was never in Playboy. You thinking of Goldie Hahn, perhaps?

Not naked but in sexy lingerie and an interview.  For a teen, that was enough.
Honestly, for a teen, a stick figure with giant boobs was usually enough.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on July 27, 2014, 12:06:43 PM
You mean Jeri Ryan?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 27, 2014, 12:15:41 PM
Which leads me to the Playboy, Teri Garr photo shoot that of course I saw as a teen.  Like I didn't know where my dad's playboys were stashed.
Teri Garr was never in Playboy. You thinking of Goldie Hahn, perhaps?

Not naked but in sexy lingerie and an interview.  For a teen, that was enough.
Looks like Teri Garr did a 20 questions for Playboy. Coincidentally the same issue with Denise Crosby. Can't find any pictures.

Jeri Ryan doesn't ever come close to nudity. From what I can tell she's actually a fairly uptight young lady.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 27, 2014, 01:33:52 PM
Besides, It's Playboy, where you had to use your imagination.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 04, 2014, 11:00:38 PM
Was just watching TMP. Man, Nichelle Nichols has humongous boobs in that movie, wtf.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 06, 2014, 06:40:51 AM
A Cheron Kitty.


(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/StarTrekcat_zps59eb4e01.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/StarTrekcat_zps59eb4e01.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 06, 2014, 06:41:39 AM
Those things are weird. You'd expect the DNA to mix up the two pairings randomly - not neatly right down the middle.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 06, 2014, 06:43:17 AM
I know, I saw the kittens as well.  Crazy but of course all I saw was Frenk Gorshin. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 06, 2014, 06:48:10 AM
I'd love one of those. But i'd also love a Sphynx because they're different and look cool. Almost like aliens - which is appealing to me :p

I love how their ears and eyes are extra large.

(https://hairlesscatblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/sphynx-cat-playing.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 06, 2014, 06:49:30 AM
Craaaaaaazy money there.  Crazy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 06, 2014, 06:55:24 AM
All the Sphynx owners on Instagram keep them indoors at all times and only let them out on a lead / leash.

Plus they buy them the best food they can buy etc etc.

Yeah they're a bit of a money pit. So i'd never own one. I'd like to see one in person though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 06, 2014, 06:57:56 AM
Anyway - I'd love for Bob Orci to pull a GREAT Star Trek movie out of his hat and prove everyone wrong.

I'll probably love it anyway - I loved Into Darkness :dunno:

Karl Urban revealed recently that he's very excited about the direction theyre taking - and he's a proper trekkie so maybe they're doing something closer to

the TV show than the last two movies. Orci is a trekkie after all. JJ never was.

I think when all is said and done - the three Bad Robot Star Trek prequels will be vastly superior to the Lucasfilm Star Wars prequels.


( yea I know that's not exactly difficult :p )
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 06, 2014, 07:02:51 AM
I did like Episode III a lot but the other 2 were not good.

Well, like I've said before, if they came out to the norm for Star Trek Movies it would have failed again.  They came out with a bombastic style of movies and that brought new crowds in.  For the older Trek fans, they need to capitalize now and come out with another TV show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 06, 2014, 07:16:20 AM
I think when all is said and done - the three Bad Robot Star Trek prequels will be vastly superior to the Lucasfilm Star Wars prequels.


( yea I know that's not exactly difficult :p )

Yeah, that's like smelling better than a decomposed corpse in a dumpster full of pissed off skunks. Even shit would smell good by comparison. :P

And I'm sure JJ's Star Wars movies will be vastly superior to his Star Trek movies. Again, not exactly difficult. :biggrin:

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 24, 2014, 03:51:51 PM
Posted today on Takei's FB page:

https://lockerdome.com/tre/6170042811288129/6890797111052306
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2014, 05:01:14 PM
The Wrath Of Khan is easily my favourite movie score of all time.

Second would be Back To The Future trilogy and third probably Inception.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 24, 2014, 07:36:51 PM
Posted today on Takei's FB page:

https://lockerdome.com/tre/6170042811288129/6890797111052306

I saw that on some Doc and us geeks sometimes forget they are real people.  A great honest moment in Star Trek history.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2014, 07:50:28 PM
Posted today on Takei's FB page:

https://lockerdome.com/tre/6170042811288129/6890797111052306

I saw that on some Doc and us geeks sometimes forget they are real people.  A great honest moment in Star Trek history.

Doohan > > > > > Pegg by a f---ing long way.

Chris Doohan > > > Pegg too.

Chris follows me on twitter and isn't the type of twitter celeb who only tweets his celeb mates and ignores everyone else except to insult them like some people I could mention...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 24, 2014, 07:53:37 PM
I've got nothing but respect (lot's of it, in fact) for Jimmy Doohan. By all accounts a great guy and significant baddass back in the day. Still, is it really a suicide note when you send it snail-mail to some actor? I mean, how long do you wait for a reply? What if he's filming somewhere? Seems to me like if she's waiting to hear back, pretty much all he's got to do is not tell her to "just do it already" and the problem pretty much solves itself.

I'd still consider it a fine thing since it was obviously quite meaningful to them both, but a little overdramatic, honestly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 24, 2014, 07:58:59 PM
I think it's hard to play such a character as Montgomery Scott.  It's more of a caricature of a caricature.  Though the same could be said for most of the main cast.  They are iconic characters and hard to deviate from those cartoonish roles.


Edit : Bart, while i agree with you, we don't know the personally how that made him feel that the person did respond back.  It was a letter and could he have done more at the time?  Yeah.  but if I had been contacted years latter in the fashion he did, I would have been overwhelmed that I had that kind of impact.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 24, 2014, 08:04:55 PM
Eh, I just re-read it and I didn't catch the first time that he called her on the phone. That's different. That's really reaching out to her. I still don't think it's much of a suicide attempt when you send a letter to someone who might not get back to you for weeks, but it does mean he established more of a relationship with her when she seemed to need some sort of help. Like I said, a great guy regardless.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 28, 2014, 09:03:54 AM
Doohan > > > > > Pegg by a f---ing long way.

Have to massively disagree here. IMHO, unlike Doohan, Pegg a) played a believable Scotsman and b) created a character that was a human being.
I mean, of course one can't really fault Doohan for the TOS scripts he was given; he was the comic relief in a lot of episodes. But even in the later movies he wasn't able to infuse his character with substance, and only "shone" in scenes like the "Hello Computer" one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 28, 2014, 09:14:42 AM
In Star Trek XI, Pegg was nothing but a punchline joke, like most of the characters. He was used well in Into Darkness though, especially given that he wasn't even on the Enterprise. Shame about the rest of the movie. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2014, 10:17:11 AM
:bosk1:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 28, 2014, 04:36:29 PM
One of these things is not like the other!



(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/StarTrekSelfie_zps6e905b33.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/StarTrekSelfie_zps6e905b33.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 28, 2014, 05:43:19 PM
I see LeVar was going for the All Good Things look, what with his eyes...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 28, 2014, 06:04:27 PM
Damn, Michael Dorn is aging terribly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2014, 06:18:11 PM
Watching The Nostalgia Critic's 10 movies he loves that everyone hates.

He likes Star Trek Nemesis and hates Insurrection the most - which I am totally on board with.

But then he says Matrix Reloaded is *better* than the first one...

 :omg: In what universe ?!

I watched all three back-to-back recently and the first one is a brilliant self-contained story and the 2nd one adds absolutely nothing to the plot.

You could start the third one after the first one with a couple of scenes from the second as exposition and you'd be fine.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 28, 2014, 06:35:09 PM
Damn, Michael Dorn is aging terribly.

And .. you can tell that by the edge of his cheek? :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 28, 2014, 06:38:34 PM
He likes Star Trek Nemesis and hates Insurrection the most - which I am totally on board with.

Insurrection is essentially an expensive TNG episode. I take it you're not a big fan of TNG?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2014, 07:35:08 PM
Love TNG. The movies are mostly poor. I like the two that everyone hates.

Namely Gen & Nem.

Insurrection gets my vote for worst trek movie ever.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 28, 2014, 09:53:57 PM
Damn, Michael Dorn is aging terribly.

And .. you can tell that by the edge of his cheek? :lol

Maybe he's referring to the fact he magically got older, fatter and whiter. :lol

Watching The Nostalgia Critic's 10 movies he loves that everyone hates.

He likes Star Trek Nemesis and hates Insurrection the most - which I am totally on board with.

But then he says Matrix Reloaded is *better* than the first one...

 :omg: In what universe ?!

So basically he's just full of wrong opinions then. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 29, 2014, 01:27:34 AM
I do think Nemesis is better than Insurrection. I know someone on this board who has the poplar opposite opinion...

But the last time I watched Nemesis - I really enjoyed it. It's not THAT bad...

Insurrection however is almost unwatchable for me.

And yeah - Matrix 1 is clearly, CLEARLY the best of the trilogy whilst 2 is 2 hours of filler.

There is not one thing in Reloaded that pays off in Revolutions.


Matrix > Revolutions  > > > Reloaded.


I'd quite like to one day cut together a version of reloaded/revolutions/extra stuff from Animatrix - to make one movie. Becasue you could bin almost all of reloaded and lose nothing plot-wise.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 29, 2014, 06:24:32 AM
Damn, Michael Dorn is aging terribly.

And .. you can tell that by the edge of his cheek? :lol

 :lol
So old that he hid from the selfie.  I haven't seen him on TV of late.  He does do voice overs for cartoons.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 29, 2014, 06:51:32 AM
He has a recurring role on the show Castle.  He plays the therapist of the female lead detective.  He looks great.  He's older, but TNG was 20 years ago.

(https://hushcomics.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/michael-dorn-5.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 29, 2014, 06:52:41 AM
Damn, and I watch that show too!  I knew that. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 01, 2014, 12:19:50 PM
Watching Star Trek the motion picture on the sci-fi channel marathon today. I always forget how completely under rated the first movie is. It may suffer from pacing, but yet actual plot line I think is brilliant. I love this movie!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 01, 2014, 12:23:36 PM
It's definitely better than both Search For Spock and Final Frontier.

I *might* like it better than Undiscovered Country too.

But that could change depending on mood.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 01, 2014, 12:29:33 PM
In Shatner's books, the joining of Decker with Ilia is the birth of the Borg. One of his better ideas IMHO.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 01, 2014, 12:38:03 PM
Last time I watched it I was busy doing stuff when it ended. It restarted and I realized that the first 20 minutes is just a long music video (or actually 4 different ones). You've got the opening theme, the Klingon theme, some segue music while Epsilon 9 gets blown up, the Vulcan music and the "Let's Fly Around the New Enterprise Theme," all with minimal dialogue. If it weren't for the transporter turning the science officer into Eckrich Farms bratwurst then it'd be suitable for the album. The total amount of speech in that is probably less than 3 minutes. After that 20 minute video the movie actually starts and it's relatively normal. I think that's the pacing problem that everybody has. It takes so long to get moving and people associate the whole film as being that slow.

That said, the score really is something else. It's absolutely worth watching just as a background bit whilst doing something else.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 01, 2014, 12:42:22 PM
The one time I found TMP slow was when i was a lot younger and I was just getting into Trek.

I saw TWOK first and obviously that one is quite action oriented.

I clearly remember watching TMP again when I was slightly older and enjoying it - and every time since.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 01, 2014, 01:28:28 PM
In Shatner's books, the joining of Decker with Ilia is the birth of the Borg. One of his better ideas IMHO.

That's a cool idea.  Even if it became canon, the only way for the audience to know it would be via some cheesy line specifically pointing it out, mentioning the key characters involved from TMP and of course a passing mention that that was during the historical Kirk era.  So it's almost better that it's not canon.  But in mind, this is how it is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 01, 2014, 01:34:18 PM
I don't buy it.  I always got the impression that the Borg had been around for a long time, assimilating and evolving as they went.  I see the union of Decker and Ilia as a new life form altogether, intent on positivity and growing, not a new race trying to assimilate everything. 

A theory that went around at one time was that the machine world that Voyager landed on was the Borg homeworld.  But I don't buy that either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 01, 2014, 01:44:53 PM
It's a neat idea, but official canon puts the origin of the Borg at around 200,000 years ago as a normal biological lifeform.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on September 01, 2014, 02:56:21 PM
It's a neat idea, but official canon puts the origin of the Borg at around 200,000 years ago as a normal biological lifeform.

Plus, Guinan knew them from centuries ago.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 01, 2014, 03:00:26 PM
It's a neat idea, but official canon puts the origin of the Borg at around 200,000 years ago as a normal biological lifeform.
And there's that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 01, 2014, 07:13:02 PM
I guess I need to read up on my Borg history.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 01, 2014, 09:18:29 PM
I didn't think it could be canonized...I just thought that as an "outside canon" paperback book, that was a pretty damn good idea. 

Shatner actually has some pretty great ideas, I just think he's not the guy that should ultimately be the final decision maker as to what stays and goes in the story.     Even as a writer he's got an editor, presumably.    I still haven't read the Tekwar series, but I hear mostly good things about them. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 01, 2014, 10:50:21 PM
It's a neat idea, but official canon puts the origin of the Borg at around 200,000 years ago as a normal biological lifeform.

Plus, Guinan knew them from centuries ago.

Plus, it just sounds like the usual novel fanwank that typifies that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 02, 2014, 06:02:10 AM
I read a ST:TNG novel years ago which theorized that the Doomsday Machine had been originally designed to fight the Borg.

It was a fun read, but that's it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 02, 2014, 06:07:28 AM
Instead of viewing Decker-Ilia as the starting poin of the Borg, a much more likely story would be that V'ger was "upgraded" by the Borg.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 02, 2014, 08:17:07 AM
Instead of viewing Decker-Ilia as the starting poin of the Borg, a much more likely story would be that V'ger was "upgraded" by the Borg.
This was a much better premise. It came across a "similar" life form and it was repaired and rebuilt with the capability of fulfilling it's mission.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 02, 2014, 09:01:37 AM
It would also allow for an interesting twist in the Borg, that maybe they feel a certain compassion towards lower technological lifeforms. That their conquest only extends to biological lifeforms since they view them to be inferior.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 02, 2014, 10:06:41 AM
Wouldn't it make more sense that they would attempt to assimilate it?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 02, 2014, 10:21:09 AM
The Borg never assimilated inferior technology or lifeforms. I recall Seven pointing out that the Kazon and Telaxians were both deemed unworthy of assimilation. They would have had access to what Voyager already knew when they upgraded it anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 02, 2014, 12:29:00 PM
The Borg never assimilated inferior technology or lifeforms. I recall Seven pointing out that the Kazon and Telaxians were both deemed unworthy of assimilation. They would have had access to what Voyager already knew when they upgraded it anyway.
I didn't know that.  I guess I didn't watch enough Voyager to pick up on it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 02, 2014, 06:52:44 PM
The Borg never assimilated inferior technology or lifeforms. I recall Seven pointing out that the Kazon and Telaxians were both deemed unworthy of assimilation. They would have had access to what Voyager already knew when they upgraded it anyway.
I didn't know that.  I guess I didn't watch enough Voyager to pick up on it.
Yeah, assimilating an entire planet full of Neelix's probably would have lowered the collective intelligence of The Borg by a statistically noticeable amount.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 02, 2014, 11:18:29 PM
The Borg never assimilated inferior technology or lifeforms. I recall Seven pointing out that the Kazon and Telaxians were both deemed unworthy of assimilation. They would have had access to what Voyager already knew when they upgraded it anyway.
I didn't know that.  I guess I didn't watch enough Voyager to pick up on it.
Yeah, assimilating an entire planet full of Neelix's probably would have lowered the collective intelligence of The Borg by a statistically noticeable amount.  :lol

But on the plus side, they'd gain skullet mohawks and funky clothes. Worth it!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 03, 2014, 06:59:44 AM
I always assumed they assimilated everything, but I guess it makes more sense to only assimilate races from which you could learn something.

But didn't the Borg say something about improving the quality of life, in one of their earliest appearances?  Or am I misremembering?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 03, 2014, 08:14:13 AM
I always assumed they assimilated everything, but I guess it makes more sense to only assimilate races from which you could learn something.

But didn't the Borg say something about improving the quality of life, in one of their earliest appearances?  Or am I misremembering?
Yeah, but that was when they were trying to persuade somebody to go along with assimilation. I think there needs to be some sort of quid pro quo, and the Telaxians didn't bring much to the table.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 03, 2014, 09:18:05 AM
One of the things that always annoyed me about ST TNG and onwards is when they would use Earth idioms and just dump in some alien species.

For Example : " She ran in there like a Talaxian Bull in a china shop ! "

Just make up an alien idiom ! You will understand it's meaning by the context which it is used.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 03, 2014, 09:46:16 AM
One of the things that always annoyed me about ST TNG and onwards is when they would use Earth idioms and just dump in some alien species.

For Example : " She ran in there like a Talaxian Bull in a china shop ! "

Just make up an alien idiom ! You will understand it's meaning by the context which it is used.

Don't you know the first rule of scifi? To make something sound spacey, just add the planet name in front of something mundane! :lol
Ale becomes Romulan ale, wine becomes Klingon blood wine, Andorian Trivial Pursuit, Vulcan cage match fighting, and don't get me started on how many planets have their own strain of the flu! I never hear the aliens talk about Earthlican tea, or the Human flu. :lol

Idioms do come across as silly, although I'm not sure how often they've actually done it in practice.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 03, 2014, 10:15:46 AM
I tell thee lad - I had a fookin' romulan ale last night down t'pub and I was as bladdered as a blimmin Klingon GahGagh Beast !

Make no mistake lad - i'll no be drinking again til lunchtime I tell thee .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 03, 2014, 10:24:00 AM
Um lemme guess..... that was Scotty in Star Trek V, right?  :justjen
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 03, 2014, 10:26:21 AM
Hehe. It was supposed to be a stereotypical Yorkshire accent.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 03, 2014, 10:31:20 AM
I'm obviously not as well tuned in to the UK accents as you. :biggrin:


But I'm still pretty sure that was Scotty in Star Trek V. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 03, 2014, 11:00:11 AM
Jimmy probably thought it was Scottish.



But the Scots didn't.  didnae :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 03, 2014, 11:01:52 AM
Bring back Weshley, I say! That was a legit accent, and the man could yodel, I tell ya.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 03, 2014, 11:05:00 AM
Just to try and get back to the appropriately level of nerdishness, wouldn't the UT use "flu" for all sorts of similar infections?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 03, 2014, 11:09:29 AM
Just to try and get back to the appropriately level of nerdishness, wouldn't the UT use "flu" for all sorts of similar infections?

I'm sure it would, but there have seriously been a ton of alien flus in Trek, and it's just funny that every single alien race seems to have a similar disease, and that the universal translator would translate whatever their word for "flu" is with "[planet] flu", instead of simply "flu", if they're that similar.
If humans can't catch it, and it's that similar, then why not just call it the flu? If humans can catch it, and it's not close enough to our flu to call the flu, why not give it a unique name in the English language and use that?

But the universal translator is a whole can of worms in itself. I think it's one of those things you just have to accept is necessary, and then try to shut it out of your mind forever. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 03, 2014, 11:22:11 AM
The UT in-universe doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

The UT as a narrative device is merely there just to explain why everyone speaks English. That's all.

It's not quite as bad as Dr. Who's sonic screwdriver being able to control pretty much everything though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 03, 2014, 11:31:15 AM
The sonic screwdriver is fine most of the time, when he's just using it to unlock doors etc. It's only a minority of the time I feel it ventures into magical plot device territory. But that's for the Doctor Who thread!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PetFish on September 05, 2014, 06:42:38 PM
We could have wiped out the Borg by sending them a ship full of Paclids.  I dunno how to spell their name but, you know, those "engines make us go fast" and "guns make us strong" species.

They kidnapped Geordi to "fix them and make them go" but then Worf said he'd never reach the 24th level of blahblah cuz he was helping them but it was all a trick.

1) Borg assimilate moron species
2) Borg turn into moron junk traders
3) ...
4) Profit (Borg end up being Jawas in Star Wars)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 05, 2014, 08:10:44 PM
I absolutely loved how they kept shooting Geordi over and over.  :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 05, 2014, 08:24:32 PM
Even though, I *never* understood how Geordi was supposed to pick up on their ploy. And more magically, how he did.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 06, 2014, 07:52:52 AM
I haven't seen it in a while, but I think the idea was that Worf's speech about not attaining the 24th level of blahblah was the clue to exercise Protocol 24 or something, in which a hostage does something which fools the enemy yet the Enterprise crew, being in on it, are able to take advantage of it, assist in freeing the hostage, and they all live happily ever after.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 06, 2014, 08:17:58 AM
Yeah I thought that was obvious. Worf says level 24 and Laforge goes

"....oh right. " in a manner like he understands but doesn't want to let on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 06, 2014, 09:39:08 AM
That part was obvious. In terms of script writing they should have clued the viewer in more what "24" means. As it was shown, Worf says a magic number, and everybody lived happily ever after.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 06, 2014, 10:18:15 AM
Not really. He was quite clearly speaking in code. The point is Geordi understood.

The way everyone was like " tough break Geordi. we'll miss you. "

They were obviously pretending for the Pakleds and letting the audience in on the ruse

At the same time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 10, 2014, 05:21:20 PM
I still want to get this :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Trek-Stardate-Collection-Remastered/dp/B00BKN6ZRI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410391134&sr=8-1&keywords=Star+Trek+Movie+Collection

Then I can get rid off all my mismatching DVDs
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 10, 2014, 10:52:48 PM
I got all of my DVDs more recently (but individually), so luckily they all match. It also means I'm stuck with the theatrical cut of TMP.
STXI and ST:ID don't match the rest, or each other, but they did come in a 2 movie boxset, so it looks as matched as it can.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 11, 2014, 04:16:28 AM
I don't have a Blu Ray player but I might also get the new Star Trek, Star Trek into Darkness boxset which comes with a ton more extras and watch them at my bro's house.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 11, 2014, 08:38:09 AM
I got all of my DVDs more recently (but individually), so luckily they all match. It also means I'm stuck with the theatrical cut of TMP.
STXI and ST:ID don't match the rest, or each other, but they did come in a 2 movie boxset, so it looks as matched as it can.
Man, the theatrical cut of TMP made zero sense. I'm surprised they even still offer that thing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 11, 2014, 08:48:47 AM
I got all of my DVDs more recently (but individually), so luckily they all match. It also means I'm stuck with the theatrical cut of TMP.
STXI and ST:ID don't match the rest, or each other, but they did come in a 2 movie boxset, so it looks as matched as it can.
Man, the theatrical cut of TMP made zero sense. I'm surprised they even still offer that thing.

Despite the theatrical version being a rushed mess, I'm all for the original version of a movie still being available (see Star Wars OT), and the people who do like it were probably mostly the ones who saw it back in 1979, and want the version they remember. So there would be demand for it, as far as that movie goes.
Another problem with the director's cut of TMP, is that I believe it was all done at SD (including the new visual effects), so I don't think they could release it in a HD format without redoing it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 11, 2014, 09:00:26 AM
I got all of my DVDs more recently (but individually), so luckily they all match. It also means I'm stuck with the theatrical cut of TMP.
STXI and ST:ID don't match the rest, or each other, but they did come in a 2 movie boxset, so it looks as matched as it can.
Man, the theatrical cut of TMP made zero sense. I'm surprised they even still offer that thing.

Despite the theatrical version being a rushed mess, I'm all for the original version of a movie still being available (see Star Wars OT), and the people who do like it were probably mostly the ones who saw it back in 1979, and want the version they remember. So there would be demand for it, as far as that movie goes.
Yeah, I suppose you're right. Made available is fine, but necessarily promoted? Nobody thinks the original was better in this case. As opposed to GL who is universally considered to have completely fucked up SW.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 13, 2014, 07:15:10 PM
Babysitting tonight and using my brother's Netflix and watching DD Far Beyond The Stars.  I love this episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on September 15, 2014, 09:03:24 AM
Agreed, fine episode and all the alien characters without alien make up is so much fun, too

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on September 21, 2014, 05:04:13 PM
Last week I watch the most nonsensical episode I've seen so far of this show, it was pretty awful.
The episode is called Space Seed and though I'm pretty sure you've all seen it; let me recap what I thought happened.
The Enterprise finds a vessel that has humans who've been asleep since the 1990's, they bring the first one they wake up on board and give him access to their information network, don't really press on knowing his back story even though he's conscience and alert...
The guy seduces a nympho to cooperate with him, he just straight out tells her he want to take over the ship..
Kirk and the gang find out that the guy is a super human dictator/vicious conqueror from the 1990's, they put a guard on his door..
Kirk goes to ask him a few question and the guy basically tells Kirk to get bent and makes it clear he has evil plans.
Kirk still thinks it's cool to leave the vicious super human conqueror in a sleeping quarter with one guard on the door..
The guy escapes, I would have, Hulk Hogan would have and Steve Buscemi would have.
The guy takes over the ship -rather easily- with his men and attempts to murder Kirk while his crew watched, his crew rough handles the Uhura and then after Kirk miraculously gets free, acting like this was his plan all along heh; the guy gives him the worse beating he's had since the start of whole series while attempting to blow up the Enterprise after his quest for world domination falls through. Kirk manages to defeat the guy with a.. I dunno what thing was.
Here's the kicker: Kirk's decision? let the guy and his people go live on an uninhabited planet.. pretty much no punishment there, it's good dude we all almost kill everybody everyday, it's just a thing that happens.
The nympho? Kirk gives her a choice of either getting court martialed for fucking TREASON!!!! or go live with the guy on his planet..
I didn't know whether to laugh or giggle.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 21, 2014, 05:23:17 PM
Well, you just blasted one of the most revered episodes in all of Star Trek.  :lol

A couple of things to get used to. Bad people will take over the ship all the time. They'll take off with shuttlecraft all the time, too. It's just part of the game. Without all of these thefts and hijackings you lose a lot of potential, yet important plot devices. Here's something you'll definitely be seeing a lot of:

Sir, I'm detecting an unauthorized launch of a shuttlecraft.
Stop it. Close the bay doors!
Too late sir, he's already gone.
Get a tractor beam on him!
He's just out of range, sir.
Beam him out of there!
too late sir, he's got his shields up now.

Oh, and people will beam off the ship without authorization, too. The simple truth is that if we were to believe that ship's security were at all passable there wouldn't be many stories to tell. Best not to dwell on it.

As for Khan, the subplot with McGiver was pretty silly. I always thought she flipped out way too early. But letting Khan go was pretty reasonable (for what we know up until now, at least). He was a genuine badass, and not inherently evil; just ambitious. Plus, if you think about it, he and his goons would probably be damned difficult to imprison. Leaving them all stranded on a deserted planet was as good a strategy as any at that particular point of time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 21, 2014, 05:32:51 PM
IMHO, anyone who doesn't look at TOS within the context of the time period it came out in, is simply never going to be able to appreciate it for what it was.   That, combined with the fact that no one ever imagined in a million years that the show would A) ever be rewatched at all...B) much less rewatched over and over and over again...and C) dissected in high definition.   

This is also why most ST fans really can't appreciate TNG Season 1 for what it was either. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on September 21, 2014, 05:55:29 PM
Well, you just blasted one of the most revered episodes in all of Star Trek.  :lol

I didn't know it was until after I posted here then went to look it up expecting to find bad reviews just to be amazed to find the opposite heh
I also learned that we'll run into Khan again further down the line, I really hope his first words are "You should have killed me when you had the chance!"  ;D

A couple of things to get used to. Bad people will take over the ship all the time.

Yep, I'm used to that now and also used to how easy it is to do so :lol

But letting Khan go was pretty reasonable (for what we know up until now, at least). He was a genuine badass, and not inherently evil; just ambitious. Plus, if you think about it, he and his goons would probably be damned difficult to imprison. Leaving them all stranded on a deserted planet was as good a strategy as any at that particular point of time.

The fact they he wasn't inherently evil doesn't change the fact that he tried to kill Kirk and threatened to kill the crew then attempted to blow up the Enterprise, I mean this was the most gruesome villain so far! I thought severe punishment was due unless I missed something about them being indestructible, I mean Kirk did manage to defeat him in a hand to hand combat and Khan's men fainted when gas was released into that meetings room. I would have just blasted Khan and his men into space if you can't execute them for some reason.

IMHO, anyone who doesn't look at TOS within the context of the time period it came out in, is simply never going to be able to appreciate it for what it was.   That, combined with the fact that no one ever imagined in a million years that the show would A) ever be rewatched at all...B) much less rewatched over and over and over again...and C) dissected in high definition.   

I do look at it within the context of the time period and I let a lot of stuff go usually and even rather enjoy the contrast between the nature of plot development and script writing in the 50's though the 70's and now. I watch and listen to a lot of old shows and enjoy it but I still thought this episode was rather weak in those terms.
Oh well, perhaps I'll come to appreciate this one later on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 21, 2014, 06:31:17 PM
But letting Khan go was pretty reasonable (for what we know up until now, at least). He was a genuine badass, and not inherently evil; just ambitious. Plus, if you think about it, he and his goons would probably be damned difficult to imprison. Leaving them all stranded on a deserted planet was as good a strategy as any at that particular point of time.

The fact they he wasn't inherently evil doesn't change the fact that he tried to kill Kirk and threatened to kill the crew then attempted to blow up the Enterprise, I mean this was the most gruesome villain so far! I thought severe punishment was due unless I missed something about them being indestructible, I mean Kirk did manage to defeat him in a hand to hand combat and Khan's men fainted when gas was released into that meetings room. I would have just blasted Khan and his men into space if you can't execute them for some reason.
Well, he didn't try to blow the ship up. He was trying to steal it. And I believe the only person they tried to kill was Kirk. Still, the nature of his crime was irrelevant. I think what really mattered is that Khan was very likely the most advanced human in the universe. Kirk understandably felt that killing him or tossing him away would be a loss. Stradning him on Ceti Alpha whatever was a good solution. Hell, even Spock expressed curiosity at what might become of the planet in a hundred years.

And while Khan might be the nastiest villain Kirk has had to deal with, when he comes back later he's driven completely by hatred and rage. He'll make his younger self look like Mr. Rogers. 0
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 21, 2014, 06:54:36 PM
Well, you just blasted one of the most revered episodes in all of Star Trek.  :lol

Even I'll jump in and defend this one without question. :lol One of the best, if for no other reason than the amazing chemistry between Kirk and Khan throughout.


As for Khan, the subplot with McGiver was pretty silly. I always thought she flipped out way too early. But letting Khan go was pretty reasonable (for what we know up until now, at least). He was a genuine badass, and not inherently evil; just ambitious. Plus, if you think about it, he and his goons would probably be damned difficult to imprison. Leaving them all stranded on a deserted planet was as good a strategy as any at that particular point of time.


McGivers flipping was a bit silly and unbelievable, but I could accept it for the story. Khan was supposed to be extremely charismatic, McGivers was obsessed with the time period, and also it was the 1960s so it doesn't surprise me that they made a female character that weak willed.

The ending was typically optimistic for Star Trek, and given what it led to later, I really won't fault that either. :lol Just capturing them wouldn't have really had much meaning, but giving them the opportunity to live by their own rules on a planet they had no chance of escaping was very Trek.

When you put it in the context of TWOK, that ending is actually a very cool bit of unintentional foreshadowing, and Space Seed is easily one of the best episodes of TOS imo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 21, 2014, 07:05:22 PM
I don't even put it down to the time period.   It may not be PC to portray it anymore, but women like that have always existed and they still exist today.

I suppose that's why I never got the critics.  I mean, I have no desire to portray that as an ideal role model for women to follow, but the fact is that people like that exist in reality, and it's often considered to be bad form to portray a person of that character, even if it's inherent to the plot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 21, 2014, 07:16:10 PM
Something that intrigues me is whether Space Seed would still get the love it does if not for TWoK 15 years later. It'd still be a good episode, but being part one of the Khan story boosts it considerably. I doubt it's a top ten episode as a stand alone.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 21, 2014, 07:24:22 PM
Something that intrigues me is whether Space Seed would still get the love it does if not for TWoK 15 years later. It'd still be a good episode, but being part one of the Khan story boosts it considerably. I doubt it's a top ten episode as a stand alone.

While the TWOK connection certainly elevates it as an episode, I still think it would have been one of TOS's better ones regardless. Ricardo Montalban totally owns the screen, and the scenes between him and Kirk are classic. I'd probably still have considered it a top 10 (although that is hard to say since it's difficult at this point to separate my thoughts about TWOK from my thoughts on Space Speed)

I don't know what the consensus was about Space Seed pre-TWOK, but I wouldn't think they'd make a sequel to it at that point if it wasn't considered one of the better ones to begin with. Space Seed could have been a very average episode without Montalban's presence, but I think the strength of his scenes with Kirk are probably what influenced them to continue it in a movie to begin with.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 21, 2014, 09:06:47 PM
I love the scene where he's trying to get Marla to betray the Enterprise for him, and she won't do it (at least not right away), and he gets mad and says "Then go!" and then realizes that he still kinda wants to bang her so he quickly adds "...or stay.  But do it because it is what you want to do."  Nice save, Khan.

So she decides to stay, but he needs to get the upper hand again, so he acts all annoyed and says "You must now ask permission to stay."  And she does.  Pathetic (of her).  Was it his amazing charisma, or was she just weak-willed?  Probably both.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 21, 2014, 09:27:13 PM
I love the scene where he's trying to get Marla to betray the Enterprise for him, and she won't do it (at least not right away), and he gets mad and says "Then go!" and then realizes that he still kinda wants to bang her so he quickly adds "...or stay.  But do it because it is what you want to do."  Nice save, Khan.

So she decides to stay, but he needs to get the upper hand again, so he acts all annoyed and says "You must now ask permission to stay."  And she does.  Pathetic (of her).  Was it his amazing charisma, or was she just weak-willed?  Probably both.
Khan hadn't yet broached taking the ship yet. Go or stay was pretty much just him trying to get into her skirt. Then she says she'll stay for a few more minutes, and that's when he makes her ask permission. Only then does he tell her he's taking the ship. At that point he'd already established his dominance so he knew he could roper her in. As for why it all worked, part of it was that she was weak, part of it what that he was charismatic as all fuck, particularly to a horny historian, but most of it was him expertly playing her. Everything that happened in that scene was him reading the scene and manipulating her flawlessly. Now that I think about it it's exactly what Kirk was always doing, albeit nowhere near as dramatically or expertly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 22, 2014, 04:07:21 PM
I always thought the reason why it worked is because in the beginning they allude to that she is a historian because she idolizes this time period of dominant men. So yes, she is quite weak-willed, but it's also because she is presented with her personal porn, essentially.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 22, 2014, 07:32:43 PM
On the topic of TOS, I must say that any episode involving children makes me want to gouge out my eyes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 22, 2014, 07:56:03 PM
On the topic of TOS, I must say that any episode involving children makes me want to gouge out my eyes.

BONK BONK!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 22, 2014, 07:58:04 PM
Ring around a Rosie, pocket full of ... Aaargh.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 22, 2014, 08:08:20 PM
Oh lawdy, the kid episodes were painful. The only amusing thing about them is the one where the kids control stuff by making a wanking motion. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 22, 2014, 08:19:28 PM
Watching "Requiem to Methuselah", which is such an obvious template for TNG's "The Offspring" later. Dude makes artificial girl and tries to be her father, but she discovers emotions and dies of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 22, 2014, 08:31:15 PM
On another note, you guys are such Herberts.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 22, 2014, 09:40:34 PM
AtCSL was pretty rotten, but Miri wasn't much better. Yeah, kid episodes suck.

Requiem had so much potential, and turned out to be one of the worst episodes ever. Flynt was a fantastic character, but the subplot with the hot android (who wasn't even hot) was embarrassingly bad. The Flynt story was told much better in The Man From Earth. The Offspring was actually a decent episode. Lal didn't implode because Riker was trying to fuck her, thankfully. Also, you had the ethical question of ownership/parentage which made it actually interesting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 23, 2014, 05:47:08 AM
I think what really didn't work in Requiem was Kirk's level of distraught at the end that required Spock's mind meld intervention. For fuck's sake, they spend like a few hours at the place, and Kirk is supposed to have lost the love of his life. In the preceding episode he marries and mates with this Native American chick, and when she dies it's little more than a kiss on the cheek and he's done with her.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 25, 2014, 11:27:38 PM
Watching "Wink of an Eye" (TOS) right now, where these people who live in accelerated time invade the Enterprise. Great idea as a plot setup, but damn they throw out consistency 30 second into the episode. For quite a while the two time frames run essentially at the same speed, whereas they are supposedly off by a factor of 100 or something. By the time Spock devises counter measures, weeks would have passed in accelerated time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 26, 2014, 08:38:23 AM
Watching "Wink of an Eye" (TOS) right now, where these people who live in accelerated time invade the Enterprise. Great idea as a plot setup, but damn they throw out consistency 30 second into the episode. For quite a while the two time frames run essentially at the same speed, whereas they are supposedly off by a factor of 100 or something. By the time Spock devises counter measures, weeks would have passed in accelerated time.
Beyond my level of nitpickiness. Still a very good episode.   
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 27, 2014, 12:50:28 PM
Watching Threshold - such a good premise which is utterly ruined by the last twenty minutes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 27, 2014, 01:03:26 PM
My favourite part is how the doc can get Paris and Janeway back to not only human but their original age and appearance with all their previous abilities and memories.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 27, 2014, 07:35:20 PM
Yeah, that's definitely one of the dumber Voyager episodes.  Very silly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 27, 2014, 08:13:40 PM
There was an episode of TNG that was equally stupid with everyone turning into animals too.
As far as Voyager goes, I think Distant Origin and Spirit Folk were much worse. Spirit Folk is the only episode in all of Trek that I couldn't sit through. Threshold was stupidly fun, in the way that Spock's Brain is (although Spock's Brain gets a bad rap and isn't all that bad compared to the rest of TOS).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on September 27, 2014, 08:49:51 PM
Best part of Threshold? Paris and Janeway had salamander babies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 28, 2014, 04:27:33 AM
It could have been so much better but that neat little ending just killed it.


Compared to Blink Of An Eye - which is a brilliant episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on September 28, 2014, 09:03:59 AM
There was an episode of TNG that was equally stupid with everyone turning into animals too.
As far as Voyager goes, I think Distant Origin and Spirit Folk were much worse. Spirit Folk is the only episode in all of Trek that I couldn't sit through. Threshold was stupidly fun, in the way that Spock's Brain is (although Spock's Brain gets a bad rap and isn't all that bad compared to the rest of TOS).

Do you mean Genesis? I love that episode! lol It's one of the only episodes I know the name of.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 28, 2014, 09:34:22 AM
There was an episode of TNG that was equally stupid with everyone turning into animals too.
As far as Voyager goes, I think Distant Origin and Spirit Folk were much worse. Spirit Folk is the only episode in all of Trek that I couldn't sit through. Threshold was stupidly fun, in the way that Spock's Brain is (although Spock's Brain gets a bad rap and isn't all that bad compared to the rest of TOS).

Do you mean Genesis? I love that episode! lol It's one of the only episodes I know the name of.

Yeah, I think that's the one. I'm not good with TNG episode names, since it's the one Trek series I don't have copies of.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on September 28, 2014, 09:42:47 AM
Genesis is one of those episodes I've always found to be 'so dumb, it's fun,' basically a bad horror movie in space. Threshold, on the other hand, is just painfully idiotic. I haven't watched it in a while, but I don't recall anything glaring in the first half, but the second is just terrible, terrible television. It was so bad I believe the show writers made it non-canon and I think even Brannon Braga basically disowned it too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 28, 2014, 10:27:28 AM
Genesis didn't bug me too much. I liked that Picard's smug ass was becoming a lemur and Troi a newt. At the same time I think the Troi-Worf thing might be stupidest idea in all of Trek, and that whole aspect of the episode pissed me off.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 28, 2014, 01:48:05 PM
I like Genesis overall, but what annoyed me was that every human devolved into something different. Riker into a Neanderthal (at least that makes sense), but Barkley a spider?!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 28, 2014, 01:58:51 PM
I like Genesis overall, but what annoyed me was that every human devolved into something different. Riker into a Neanderthal (at least that makes sense), but Barkley a spider?!
Add to that, how is it that after several days they fixed everybody up and there weren't one or two hundred crewmembers missing? I get that TNG Worf was a real pussy of a Klingon, but he couldn't eat anybody on a ship full of easy prey? Didn't they say half the crew was living in the arboretum? Not one predator got in there? TNG was way too chickenshit about letting people die.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 29, 2014, 01:47:56 PM
Interesting tit bit from Bob Orci himself ...


@david0akes
@realboborci How did you come up with the cover name John Harrison ? Any particular reason/significance ?
 

‏@realboborci
@david0akes Originally, John Ericsson, as in 1st draft of Space Seed.shot it that way. then feared it would tip it. Dubbed Harrison in post!

@david0akes
@realboborci Is every reading of "Harrison" in Into Darkness ADR'd ?

@realboborci
@david0akes Is every reading of "Harrison" in Into Darkness ADR'd ?  yup!


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 29, 2014, 08:13:51 PM
That's interesting! If I ever get around to watching the movie a second time, I'll keep an eye out for that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 30, 2014, 04:29:54 AM
Apparently the hangar scene from ST09 between old and young spock is completely ADR since it was too noisy on set on the day.

Now I have to watch that scene to see If I can tell :P


I was talking to my bro about this. It's obviously not noticeable - unlike some really old films ( and some very low budget films ) where ADR is extremely noticeable.

Like when there are people in a very noisy situation all running around and it sounds like they're in a recording studio speaking into a mic :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 30, 2014, 05:23:23 AM
If it's the entire scene then it shouldn't be noticeable, as long as it syncs up. ADR is most noticeable when it's alongside standard dialogue, because of the sudden the change in tone. I always spot ADR'd dialogue easily, but I've never noticed anything with that scene. I'll have to watch it back and check.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 30, 2014, 09:34:06 AM
I read the other day that the TNG episode The Ensigns of Command (the Shelliac and the colony with the aqueduct) has an entire main character dubbed over. Never noticed until I read about it. Whoever the obstinate leader of the colony was didn't sound menacing enough so they replaced all of his dialogue with another actor, at which point he asked for his credit to be removed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 30, 2014, 02:22:15 PM
That's interesting! If I ever get around to watching the movie a second time, I'll keep an eye out for that.

I'm still amused you hate that film *quite* so much after only one viewing. Did you go to see it in the cinema ?

Did you go in expecting to hate it ? I've seen films that i'd hated on first viewing which i'd loved later.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 30, 2014, 06:49:21 PM
That's interesting! If I ever get around to watching the movie a second time, I'll keep an eye out for that.

I'm still amused you hate that film *quite* so much after only one viewing. Did you go to see it in the cinema ?

Did you go in expecting to hate it ? I've seen films that i'd hated on first viewing which i'd loved later.

I actually go into most films these days with the bar set pretty low, and most of the time enjoy them because I didn't have too high expectations, so that would work to its advantage. But some movies are so beyond redemption that multiple viewings wouldn't save it, only make me dislike it more knowing all of the problems in advance. If the film was something complex or artsy maybe repeated viewings would help you understand and appreciate it, but we're talking run of the mill big loud action film here.
How many times have you seen the Transformers movies? I'm not sure even a single viewing was necessary for you to form your opinion on most of those. :biggrin:

Unless they reshot the movie from scratch for the DVD, I see little chance of my opinion changing much. I've seen STXI maybe 4 times, and my opinion on that is about the same.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on September 30, 2014, 08:17:37 PM
One thing that only occurred to me now is how much Star Trek has stuck to the "the doctor as the central figure" after it worked in TOS. I mean, if you look at it, on real ships doctors are essentially of very little importance. Sure, they keep the crew healthy, but the way Bones, Crusher, The Doctor and Phlox were "up there" was just because it had worked with Bones.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 30, 2014, 08:44:33 PM
I don't think they made the later doctors any more important than other crew members, at least not intentionally.

Crusher seemed to have a thing with Picard, and she pooped out Wil Wheaton, but she wasn't more central than anyone else overall. Maybe they did intend to make her that important at the start, but often she was just there.
Bashir was equal to everyone else, as was Phlox (he just usually stood out because he didn't suck). The EMH started out no more important than anyone, but they focused on him more because he was a clear standout character due to Robert Picardo being awesome, which is why they had to invent the mobile emitter in S3.

I think TOS is the only show where the doctor was that important, being part of the "big 3", but the other shows were much more ensemble casts where the doctor had their place.

I think for that kind of show, the doctor role was just important for a lot of the scifi stories they told. It's not a plain old real-life ship, so it's not only about keeping people healthy, they were naturally involved with many plots, like checking over the new aliens and giving information, or making a crew member look like a Klingon, or saving the crew from a disease that turns them all into horny hallucinating senior citizens.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 30, 2014, 08:56:21 PM
Yeah, pretty much what Blob said. Another aspect of the whole thing is that most space ship crews (Star Trek or otherwise) tend to have some military organization. Ranks, career service and whatnot. In those roles doctors tend to be far more civilian, like McCoy, so they provide a completely different perspective. In The Cage (or The Menagerie) that ship's doctor played the same role of being around to provide the human perspective. Go back 10 or 20 years and you see some of the same stuff. In Forbidden Planet the ship's doctor was the captain's right hand man, for basically the same reason. Doctors aren't servicemen. In Voyager and Enterprise they had similar attribute of being non-human, thus providing the outsider POV like Spock did. ST always has to have one or more people to be the objective critiquer of humanity. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 01, 2014, 06:10:18 AM
@reneauberjonois
@ChrErtmer Have you ever seen this. I took this photo in London a few years ago. Wonder if it’s still there. -ra

@david0akes
@reneauberjonois  I can assure you that London IS still there
 
‏@reneauberjonois
@david0akes  Touché  (o;  -ra



 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 01, 2014, 06:42:00 AM
Kotow and Odo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on October 01, 2014, 11:00:45 AM
Kotow and Odo.

 :lol

Where's Zy when you need a photoshop gold moment.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 01, 2014, 11:04:53 AM
Kotow and Odo.

 :lol

Where's Zy when you need a photoshop gold moment.


OdoBoy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on October 01, 2014, 11:07:39 AM
That gives Zydar's couch a whole new meaning. :lol

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Zydar on October 01, 2014, 12:21:13 PM
Something like this?

(https://i.imgur.com/lftf1cn.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on October 01, 2014, 01:06:15 PM
 :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 01, 2014, 01:36:32 PM
:tup I love my new hair !

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 01, 2014, 07:41:04 PM
WTF ZYDAR! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on October 02, 2014, 06:46:23 AM
As of last weekend my Trek apprentice and I have completed my extensive DS9 selection of over 70 episodes covering all the important stuff.
She liked it quite a lot and just like at the end of TNG she's at a point where she can't imagine getting into another crew and storyline.
However my list of VOY essentials is only 24 episodes (same as TOS), so we'll be through with that rather quickly anyway. :biggrin:

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 02, 2014, 06:49:51 AM
The great VOY episodes are so few and far between.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 02, 2014, 06:54:53 AM
Even at a quick glance by name, I'd choose at least 30, surely plenty more if I read through the descriptions. Voyager is underrated.

As for ENT, just watch S3, and the S4 mirror universe episode and you're more than covered.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 02, 2014, 07:00:39 AM
Even at a quick glance by name, I'd choose at least 30, surely plenty more if I read through the descriptions. Voyager is underrated.

As for ENT, just watch S3, and the S4 mirror universe episode and you're more than covered.

I like Enterprise's Augment Trilogy. Although I thought that Soong being the creator of both Khan & Data was pushing it a bit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 02, 2014, 07:04:26 AM
Even at a quick glance by name, I'd choose at least 30, surely plenty more if I read through the descriptions. Voyager is underrated.

As for ENT, just watch S3, and the S4 mirror universe episode and you're more than covered.

I like Enterprise's Augment Trilogy. Although I thought that Soong being the creator of both Khan & Data was pushing it a bit.

Those episodes, like most of S4, was too fanwanky for me, partly for that reason.
The double episode to explain the TOS Klingons was the worst offender (explaining something that didn't need explaining). That's the kind of crap I expect from the novels.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 02, 2014, 07:06:50 AM
I love the VOY episode which is basically a re-shoot of Star Trek VI.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 02, 2014, 07:07:28 AM
What?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 02, 2014, 07:10:29 AM
What?

 :loser:

The episode where Janeway and Tuvok go back to the Excelsior at the time of the Praxis incident.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 02, 2014, 07:13:58 AM
Oh, the anniversary episode. For some reason I was getting confused and thinking Star Trek V instead of VI. :lol

That was a good idea, but only a decent episode from what I remember. I read that they did that to give George Takei a part in the anniversary, since DS9 has Trials and Tribble-ations that same time, which he isn't in (which is an amazing episode, especially if you watch it back to back with The Trouble with Tribbles).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 02, 2014, 07:34:15 AM
When they released the remastered version of TOS they should have added Dax or Sisko somewhere in a corridor.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 02, 2014, 08:09:18 AM
When they released the remastered version of TOS they should have added Dax or Sisko somewhere in a corridor.
Part of me thinks that's way too George Lucassy, and part of me thinks it's freaking brilliant.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 02, 2014, 08:17:32 AM
Even at a quick glance by name, I'd choose at least 30, surely plenty more if I read through the descriptions. Voyager is underrated.

As for ENT, just watch S3, and the S4 mirror universe episode and you're more than covered.
Yeah, I certainly agree about VOY.

ENT I've decided is misunderstood. You ask anybody and they say what you did; first two seasons suck and the third is pretty good. I think it's probably more the opposite. While the Xindi storyline is very good, half of the episodes don't have anything to do with them, and a few more are only tangentially related (trying to rendezvous with somebody to get information about them, for example). Some of those unrelated episode were among their very worst. Meanwhile, despite not having a cast that's particularly interesting, there are actually some pretty good stories in the first two seasons. Certainly no less than what you find in S3. I think the good/average/shit ration was probably a wee bit better in the first two seasons. They spent too much time with the Suliban, who aren't particularly interesting, but a lot of the standalone episodes are pretty good.

When I did go back to season 4 I couldn't even make it through the first few episodes. It's really just terrible. I think I stopped at the one where Phlox's shithead friend gets a coworker killed in one of the most reprehensible acts you'll ever see in ST. I will say that while toying around with canon to force the Borg into the thing was a bad move, that episode wasn't bad at all. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 02, 2014, 08:25:02 AM
Yeah, the unrelated episodes of S3 were duds, but the percentage of good episodes was much higher than the other seasons imo. There were some silly horror-ish episodes that felt like B-scifi, but there were also lots of good episodes that followed classic Trek principles.
S1/2 weren't terrible, but they were very uninspired by that point, and just rehash of previous Trek, but with a much weaker cast. I'd call them redundant if anything.

Most people think S4 was Enterprise hitting its stride, but for me it was using old Trek as a crutch, and messing with canon even worse than previous seasons.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 02, 2014, 08:31:26 AM
I actually started watching ENT again a few days ago, and I have to say I'm actually enjoying it quite a lot. When I saw it the first time I had all the expectations riding on what it should have been; but on its own it's actually not bad at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 02, 2014, 10:17:21 AM
Yeah, it does much better the second time through for that very reason. That's why I've changed my stance on it. You might also find that season 3 isn't actually all that much better than the other two. Good Xindi stuff with a ton of typical ST filler. Upon a second trip through season 4 is painful to watch.

Season 3 also includes an episode which Brannon Braga called the singularly most embarrassing episode of ST he'd ever been associated with. LeVar Burton told the producers he was ashamed to have directed it. All the more interesting since LeVar had been featured in a very similar episode in TNG. Burton then followed that up by directed probably the best episode of ENT they made (Similitude).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 02, 2014, 11:33:39 AM
What episode is that ? I must watch it tonight :lol


Edit : Extinction ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 02, 2014, 11:42:44 AM
Yup. Pretty awful.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 02, 2014, 11:43:16 AM
:rollin that's my evening sorted.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 02, 2014, 01:05:40 PM
...That wasn't the worst thing i've ever seen.

Although I like how Archer's hair grew with the virus and then just stopped growing .

And how Enterprise could detect all the life signs from orbit but they couldn't locate them 6 feet in front of them on the surface  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 02, 2014, 04:33:46 PM

When I did go back to season 4 I couldn't even make it through the first few episodes. It's really just terrible. I think I stopped at the one where Phlox's shithead friend gets a coworker killed in one of the most reprehensible acts you'll ever see in ST. I will say that while toying around with canon to force the Borg into the thing was a bad move, that episode wasn't bad at all.

Do you know which episode that is ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 02, 2014, 05:02:00 PM
The Phlox's shithead friend episode was one of the ones with Spiner and the augments. He ran the cold storage facility. I wrote somewhere that he might be the lowest scumbag in the entire ST universe. The one with the Borg was whichever S4 ENT episode it was that dealt with the Borg. No idea what they called it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 02, 2014, 07:15:30 PM
BTW, totally random observation: Have you noticed how the beds in sick bay are always ridiculously narrow? I just watched an episode where T'Pol was required to have 24 hours bed rest, but it must have been hell. The slightest turn would make you fall off.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 02, 2014, 07:34:22 PM
BTW, totally random observation: Have you noticed how the beds in sick bay are always ridiculously narrow? I just watched an episode where T'Pol was required to have 24 hours bed rest, but it must have been hell. The slightest turn would make you fall off.

And T'Pol is a only a twig as it is. Although lying down, she'd be top heavy and prone to rolling off. :lol

Yeah, it does much better the second time through for that very reason. That's why I've changed my stance on it. You might also find that season 3 isn't actually all that much better than the other two. Good Xindi stuff with a ton of typical ST filler. Upon a second trip through season 4 is painful to watch.

Season 3 also includes an episode which Brannon Braga called the singularly most embarrassing episode of ST he'd ever been associated with. LeVar Burton told the producers he was ashamed to have directed it. All the more interesting since LeVar had been featured in a very similar episode in TNG. Burton then followed that up by directed probably the best episode of ENT they made (Similitude).

Nah, S3 is quite noticeably better than the first 2, despite occasional crud like Extinction. And while it is a terrible episode, I'm sure Braga has been associated with worse. :lol One of the worst of the season, but it didn't jump out at me as all time awful. Just regular awful.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 03, 2014, 07:56:32 PM
https://io9.com/the-top-100-star-trek-episodes-of-all-time-1641565699
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 03, 2014, 08:33:09 PM
https://io9.com/the-top-100-star-trek-episodes-of-all-time-1641565699
Lists like those tend to bug me since it's so subjective. Tons of things I could complain abut, but who'd listen. Instead I counted how many I could identify just from the picture. Got 72, including a couple of tricky ones.


And just to provide something to talk about, the top of each series:

TOS Balance of Terror (1), City on the Edge of Forever, Trouble with Tribbles
TNG Best of Both Worlds (2), Darmok, Inner Light
DS9 The Visitor (4), In the Pale Moonlight, Far Beyond the Stars
VOY Equinox (23), Year of Hell, The Void
ENT Twilight (33), In a Mirror Darkly, Dear Doctor

I'm in the CotEoF is the best ST has done camp, so I would have put it first in TOS, at least. Balance of Terror is a top 10 episode, but hardly the best of all series. Tribbles is overrated.
Thought BoBW sucked, suffering the same problem as almost all 2-part TNG episodes. Thought Darmk was overrated, as well. Inner Light is damn fine work, though.
I've got no problem at all with the DS9 list, although I think FBtS sucks, honestly. Good premise executed poorly due largely to the acting.
Equinox and Year of Hell are both good episodes. The latter might make my top 3, not sure. Timeless definitely would have, and probably Blink of an Eye; awesome premise.
All three of the ENT episodes are pretty good, although I have no idea how I'd rank them amongst the series. What I do know is that Similitude would top the list and didn't even make their 100.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 03, 2014, 08:41:33 PM
I would definitely have chosen Similitude for ENT, and In a Mirror Darkly, despite my dislike for the rest of S4.

For Voyager, I would definitely not have chosen Equinox. Janeway was PMS'ing so hard in part 2 that I assumed she'd been possessed by an alien entity. The Void was ok, but not near one of the best. Year of Hell and Timeless would be my top picks. Both amazing.

Good choices for DS9 and TNG. Can't argue with those.

For TOS, I mostly agree too, although I wouldn't put BoT quite so high. Still near the top of TOS, but not the best. COTEOF is easily the best TOS episode imo, and I think Tribbles deserves its place too. I'd probably choose Amok Time for second place from TOS.

I didn't actually read the list, because with over 700 episodes, they're bound to miss episodes I think should be there, and include ones I don't agree with.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on October 03, 2014, 08:47:24 PM
I was babysitting for my brother and he had Netflix and I went right to DS9 and watched Far Beyond the Stars.  What a great episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 03, 2014, 09:14:10 PM
I would definitely have chosen Similitude for ENT, and In a Mirror Darkly, despite my dislike for the rest of S4.

For Voyager, I would definitely not have chosen Equinox. Janeway was PMS'ing so hard in part 2 that I assumed she'd been possessed by an alien entity. The Void was ok, but not near one of the best. Year of Hell and Timeless would be my top picks. Both amazing.

Good choices for DS9 and TNG. Can't argue with those.

For TOS, I mostly agree too, although I wouldn't put BoT quite so high. Still near the top of TOS, but not the best. COTEOF is easily the best TOS episode imo, and I think Tribbles deserves its place too. I'd probably choose Amok Time for second place from TOS.

I didn't actually read the list, because with over 700 episodes, they're bound to miss episodes I think should be there, and include ones I don't agree with.
Last time I watched Year of Hell it occurred to me that Annorax was a real dumbass, which lessened the episode quite a bit. For all of his intelligence with temporal mechanics, and all the time he had to ponder it, it never occurred to him that erasing the time ship would solve his problems? And you're right about Janeway in Equinox. I forgot how far off the deep end she went. Just like Picard in every TNG move.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 03, 2014, 10:18:53 PM
I figure that time travel is too difficult to predict for him to have known the results of destroying the ship, especially as he kind of existed outside of time. It might have been a fluke that it worked. Time travel usually has its problems in TV shows and movies, so it's hard to know exactly how things should work.
Janeway didn't kamikaze run his ship to fix the timeline, she did it because she was totally screwed anyway and wanted to take him down with her, so it's not like Voyager had it figured out either. One of the most badass moments in Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 04, 2014, 11:38:10 AM
I figure that time travel is too difficult to predict for him to have known the results of destroying the ship, especially as he kind of existed outside of time. It might have been a fluke that it worked. Time travel usually has its problems in TV shows and movies, so it's hard to know exactly how things should work.
Janeway didn't kamikaze run his ship to fix the timeline, she did it because she was totally screwed anyway and wanted to take him down with her, so it's not like Voyager had it figured out either. One of the most badass moments in Trek.
Well, you got two problems there. This guy was supposed to be the all-time genius of temporal mechanics. And he had centuries to research what was up. Their entire existence involved figuring out what to erase to restore the timeline. While others might have had an excuse, he did not. The other problem is that it's common sense. They knew that erasing the first civilization is what mucked things up, so by erasing the instrument of that first destruction the original timeline restores and that's that. If you want to say that the solution was too simple for somebody as highly trained and focused as Annorax then so be it. Maybe it's a problem that required Naomi Wildman to figure out, but to say that it was too complicated doesn't work for me. It was too simple, instead, and somebody on that ship should have had the idea.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 04, 2014, 12:33:04 PM
I think ENT kinda crapped out with their time travel story arc because of that exact reason. Time travel immediately gets you into paradoxes and inconsistencies, and so the key character (Daniels) was relegated to "Matrix Oracle"-esque blabbering.
A bummer really; ENT could have set a new standard on how time travel could work, but instead they just bailed out and kept it at "Daniels won't tell".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 04, 2014, 07:28:40 PM
I figure that time travel is too difficult to predict for him to have known the results of destroying the ship, especially as he kind of existed outside of time. It might have been a fluke that it worked. Time travel usually has its problems in TV shows and movies, so it's hard to know exactly how things should work.
Janeway didn't kamikaze run his ship to fix the timeline, she did it because she was totally screwed anyway and wanted to take him down with her, so it's not like Voyager had it figured out either. One of the most badass moments in Trek.
Well, you got two problems there. This guy was supposed to be the all-time genius of temporal mechanics. And he had centuries to research what was up. Their entire existence involved figuring out what to erase to restore the timeline. While others might have had an excuse, he did not. The other problem is that it's common sense. They knew that erasing the first civilization is what mucked things up, so by erasing the instrument of that first destruction the original timeline restores and that's that. If you want to say that the solution was too simple for somebody as highly trained and focused as Annorax then so be it. Maybe it's a problem that required Naomi Wildman to figure out, but to say that it was too complicated doesn't work for me. It was too simple, instead, and somebody on that ship should have had the idea.

You're not factoring in that it's not simply a matter of destroying the time ship, it has to be erased from time by its own weapon. You can't just point the timeship weapon at itself and erase itself. Bombing the thing worked because it destabilized the core and triggered a time incursion that affected the whole ship (as Annorax says before it blows). Destabilized implies unpredictability. As I said, it was likely a fluke that it triggered that way. If a different part of the ship was hit, it may have just blown up and left things the way they were, unable to ever be fixed. Nobody else thought of this idea, not the Voyager crew, and it wasn't a simple solution, even though it appeared that way. Janeway wasn't trying to restore the timeline, she was just trying to take him down with her. Had the ship been destroyed by the impact itself, everyone would just be dead. :lol

Assuming Annorax did think of the idea of erasing himself, he'd either have to devise a way to trigger a risky process that he only has one shot to get right or else everything is permanently screwed, or alternatively build another weapon or modify the current weapon in some way that would be likely impossible, due to not being able to exist outside of the confines of the ship without being erased along with everything else, and erasing the technology from the sector. I doubt he would have been able to modify anything without affecting the time bubble that allows them to survive anyway.

I'm not saying the logic of the episode is bulletproof by any means, but it's not as simple as you're trying to make out. Every time travel story has its logic problems.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 04, 2014, 07:52:30 PM
I'd estimate that a full third of every episode of ST has the ship's crew figuring out a way to do something similarly complicated or impossible. The whole premise that Star Fleet is so extraordinarily badass is based on the fact that they're constantly finding creative solutions to problems like "how do you get the weapon to work on itself." And, often times that solution is a ultra high risk endeavor. "Captain, either this works or we'll wipe the entire universe clear out of existence." "Make is so, ensign No Name."

And the easier idea I had was the Naomi Wildman approach. Just build another one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 04, 2014, 08:02:04 PM
I just explained why they couldn't build another one. :lol

But basically, restoring the timeline is as easy or hard as the writers want it to be. They could just as easily have just made Voyager "reconfigure the deflector emitter to send out a tachyon pulse wave at a phasing frequency to penetrate the ship's temporal barrier" or whatever. And if they made it possible for Annorax to easily fix the timeline, you've got no episode. And they wanted Janeway to take a run at the ship because it's badass.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 04, 2014, 08:13:12 PM
Of course that's correct, but it doesn't change the fact that Annorax was a dumbass.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 04, 2014, 09:33:59 PM
Well, he was in that 70s show. What do you expect.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on October 04, 2014, 10:40:09 PM
Sorry if I'm taking you guys off the current topic, but after all these years I finally started watching Enterprise from start to finish. I had caught some of the episodes when it originally aired, but I didn't follow the series through. I've been at it for about a month now, and I'm two episodes into season 3. I must say that they took what was easily one of the worst theme songs of all time and made it worse with the beginning of season 3. I didn't remember the song annoying me that much in the past, but now it's just horrible. Also, the tone and production of the show took a big turn towards being darker at the end of season 2. It's like they felt the need to really spice things up, maybe? I'm guessing that they had ratings issues when the show was originally aired...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 04, 2014, 11:46:55 PM
I'm on Season 2, so I got a bit more time :lol

What's getting a bit on my nerves is the Malcolm guy. I think they overdid his stuffiness/Britishness/Self-pitying.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 05, 2014, 12:09:31 AM
Different question: Did any captain ever consciously sacrifice a crew member to save the rest? The only instance I can think of is Troi's officer training, where sending Geordi into that tube would save the rest but kill him. But that was hypothetical; did anybody ever do it? Every episode seems to be about risking everything just to save that one guy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on October 05, 2014, 12:43:10 AM
What's getting a bit on my nerves is the Malcolm guy. I think they overdid his stuffiness/Britishness/Self-pitying.

Yeah, he might be the worst character on the show. So far, I'm enjoying it more than Voyager and there don't seem to be many bad episodes. I know a little bit about some of the upcoming stuff due to reading other people's comments about them, but I'm saving my judgement. The most consistent characters up to this point are Phlox and Hoshi. They haven't been featured very much, but you usually know what you're getting from them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 05, 2014, 12:49:56 AM
What's getting a bit on my nerves is the Malcolm guy. I think they overdid his stuffiness/Britishness/Self-pitying.

Yeah, he might be the worst character on the show. So far, I'm enjoying it more than Voyager and there don't seem to be many bad episodes. I know a little bit about some of the upcoming stuff due to reading other people's comments about them, but I'm saving my judgement. The most consistent characters up to this point are Phlox and Hoshi. They haven't been featured very much, but you usually know what you're getting from them.

Hoshi never gets much screen time (which is a shame, because she's 100x cuter than T'Pol). Phlox is probably the best character though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 05, 2014, 09:11:07 AM
Different question: Did any captain ever consciously sacrifice a crew member to save the rest? The only instance I can think of is Troi's officer training, where sending Geordi into that tube would save the rest but kill him. But that was hypothetical; did anybody ever do it? Every episode seems to be about risking everything just to save that one guy.
Kirk jettisoned Finney during the ion storm. The fact that Finney faked his own death doesn't change the fact that Kirk actually did hit the button.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 05, 2014, 10:20:17 AM
Wasn't there that one episode with the girl who did the Starburst manoeuvre ? Picard pretended to hate her to make her fight back ? 

I might be mixing two episodes together ?

Anyway - Picard definitely sent someone on an away mission knowing full well they might not come back - and they didn't.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on October 05, 2014, 10:53:24 AM
That's similar, but not the same thing.  Any mission can be dangerous, and there's always a risk that you might not come back, but a commanding officer has to give the order anyway.  Ensign Sito knew the risks and accepted them.  The odds weren't great, but they were non-zero, so it's not the same as sacrificing someone -- literally sending them to their certain death -- in order to save the rest of the crew or away team or whatever.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 05, 2014, 12:55:01 PM
Yeah, up the long ladder doesn't count. They had her return all planned out in that capsule, and it was only because of the Cardassian's target practice that she died. It was a dangerous mission, but they all considered it a high chance she might make it back.

It's a bummer they didn't explore the "sacrificial lamb" angle more, because it could have given a shit-ton of depth to the captain who would have done it. Instead they pounded on that "that's not how humanity works" angle, whereas that's *exactly* how humanity works when push comes to shove. Every military leader in this world has had to send troops into a hopeless battle, only to gain a tactical advantage.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 05, 2014, 01:05:59 PM
Oh yeah, Kirk sent Spock into the giant amoeba when there was virtually no chance of survival. I'd say that's two for Kirk.

Problem is that they all tended to assume responsibility for the unsurvivable stuff themselves.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on October 05, 2014, 01:16:07 PM
Do red shirts count?   :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 05, 2014, 01:22:49 PM
It's really interesting, all the valid examples come from TOS. In that sense, Kirk was the most believable captain of them all.
Regarding red shirts, didn't they all just die because of "plot-required accidents"? Did Kirk specifically send someone to their deaths?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 05, 2014, 01:23:47 PM
Archer had the cloned Tripp killed to save the more important Tripp. Janeway had the merged Tuvok/Neelix killed to restore the two originals. Both instances were done because the crew/mission necessitated it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 05, 2014, 01:44:43 PM
I know what you mean, but there's always that caveat. It was a cloned Tripp, it was a freaky Neevok. There was always that foreseeable happy ending.
But, especially the Neevok example was good, because they killed a being that was never coming back in that specific form again.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 05, 2014, 01:51:18 PM
Yeah, a big caveat. At the same time in both cases they killed a perfectly valid and viable person off, and in both cases they told the guys "really, really sorry, but you're just not as important to the mission as who we're trading you for." Not the same thing as sending a good friend off in a shuttlecraft not expecting him to survive, but still a harshly pragmatic act.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 05, 2014, 03:08:22 PM
Of course that's correct, but it doesn't change the fact that Annorax was a dumbass.

Quote
ANNORAX


(https://thepleat.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/runway_anoraks21.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 05, 2014, 03:46:04 PM
Every time I see that episode I have to think of that :lol
So, do people who don't like the episode Anoraknophobia?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 05, 2014, 04:30:12 PM
Every time I see that episode I have to think of that :lol
So, do people who don't like the episode Anoraknophobia?

Isn't that people who don't like spiders in their jackets ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 05, 2014, 05:57:37 PM
Umm....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoraknophobia
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 05, 2014, 07:17:29 PM
Every time I see that episode I have to think of that :lol
So, do people who don't like the episode Anoraknophobia?

When I hear Annorax, I think anorexia.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 07, 2014, 02:05:43 PM
Watching "Cause and Effect" - the one with the Reliant looking ship that smashes the Enterprise over and over.


It's a good episode for Gates McFadden.

I wonder if they filmed each "scene" X amount of times and then moved on to the next one.


I like how they work the number 3 into the next loop.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 07, 2014, 03:04:40 PM
According to M-A each run through was unique. They were shot differently and there were additions to each one. Also shows one of the scenes being shot from two different cameras to facilitate using unique takes. Looks like they blew up 4 different enterprise models to make each explosion unique, as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 07, 2014, 03:13:23 PM
Each take is obviously different but I wonder if they filmed each scene a number of times in a row. That would make most sense.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 07, 2014, 03:51:01 PM
I would assume so, yeah. That way they can make sure their performances really match up too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 07, 2014, 04:05:08 PM
It's a great episode and the kind of storyline that I really want in Star Trek.

Less like Data'a Day :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 07, 2014, 04:12:30 PM
Ok - supposing they did a JJ Abrams style TNG movie reboot .

How would you cast the Bridge Crew ?

Picard could be played by Tom Hardy ironically or Michael Fassbender or make it really confusing and cast James Mcavoy :P

Riker could be played by Ryan Reynolds or Brandon Routh or Logan Marshall Green from Prometheus.

Worf could literally be anyone.

Data could be played by Sam Huntington.

Geordi Could be Chiwetel Ejiofor.

Troi could be Noomi Rapace - she's already got that weird accent :P


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on October 07, 2014, 05:35:34 PM
Ok - supposing they did a JJ Abrams style TNG movie reboot .

How would you cast the Bridge Crew ?

Picard could be played by Tom Hardy ironically or Michael Fassbender or make it really confusing and cast James Mcavoy :P

Riker could be played by Ryan Reynolds or Brandon Routh or Logan Marshall Green from Prometheus.

Worf could literally be anyone.

Data could be played by Sam Huntington.

Geordi Could be Chiwetel Ejiofor.

Troi could be Noomi Rapace - she's already got that weird accent :P

PLEASE GOD let Dr. Krusher be played by Christina Hendricks!!   :xbones
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 07, 2014, 05:38:13 PM
I'm quite happy with my choices. :P

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on October 07, 2014, 07:23:55 PM
You didn't specify who was playing Beverly...so I'm making an addition.  :yarr
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 07, 2014, 09:01:45 PM
Seems to me that if you're going to do TNG in the JJ Abrams millieu, then you're going to rewrite all of the characters so severely that it doesn't really matter who you cast. Fuck, just make Vin Diesel Picard since he's going to spend the whole movie in shootouts and fist fights anyway. Tom Cruise can be Riker. Samuel Jackson as Worf "and featuring The Rock as The Cyborg." Megan Fox can be Beverly Crusher, the captain's girlfriend.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on October 07, 2014, 09:55:56 PM
I know you're being ridiculous, but that sounds unintentionally AWESOME!!!  (except for the Meghan Fox bit...can't we get someone cuter and less plastic?)

  ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on October 07, 2014, 09:57:33 PM
I know you're being ridiculous, but that sounds unintentionally AWESOME!!!  (except for the Meghan Fox bit...can't we get someone cuter and less plastic?)

  ;)

Scarlett Johansson
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on October 07, 2014, 10:57:29 PM
Worf could literally be anyone.

Kim Kardashian
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on October 08, 2014, 10:04:42 PM
Natalie Portman
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 09, 2014, 11:18:00 AM
Gates McFadden  Verified account
‏@gates_mcfadden
“@david0akes:  The episode Cause And Effect with the repeating timeline. Did you film each scene X amount of times and then move on ?” YEP



So there you have it :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 09, 2014, 11:22:42 AM
I'm not sure why that would be a surprise. Everything is shot out of sequence so you don't keep moving back and forth and what not.

Still, it's cool that she's actually willing to help out nerds in distress.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 09, 2014, 11:34:49 AM
Always negativity...


::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 09, 2014, 11:50:37 AM
Seemed halfway positive to me. I commended the girl for being helpful and answering questions. She could have gotten all Shatner on you. Certainly nothing negative intended.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 11, 2014, 08:47:27 AM
:)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 11, 2014, 09:02:02 AM
Had to skip my first ENT episode yesterday, "Cogenitor". Setup is good, but at that point it must have been the fifth episode or so where hick Tripp can't relativize the concept of culture and feels he once again must intervene. Despite both T'Pol and Phlox pounding on him that it's not his business.
You know, at least in TNG they had Riker fall in love with the person, so there was at least a believable motivation. This was just " I speak with a hick accent and can't stop being provincial ".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 11, 2014, 09:25:33 AM
Valid point. I mostly skip it because I find androgynous people creepy as hell.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on October 11, 2014, 09:28:24 AM
Valid point. I mostly skip it because I find androgynous people creepy as hell.

Even the heavy handed hammy TNG one where Riker falls for one?  ::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 12, 2014, 01:34:20 PM
I read recently that the writers wanted 7 of 9 to be in Nemesis rather than one of the TNG bridge crew :lol

Jeri Ryan quite rightly refused as it made no sense.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 12, 2014, 10:31:14 PM
I'm on season 3 of ENT, and man, it's no surprise then whole thing got axed later. There's just so many stinkers, I'm right now watching "North Star", which is just a lame excuse to shoot a Western.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 12, 2014, 10:40:51 PM
North Star was a dud, but that season is easily the best. You're not even half way through, so you haven't seen a lot of the best stuff yet.

Season 4 should tell you why it was canceled. That season barely deserved to be relegated to non-canon novels.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 14, 2014, 05:25:11 PM
OK, here's a new topic: Who was the most killed character? The question came to me after watching "Similitude", where Tripp bites the dust.

Worf I think is a high contender. First of all he is in Cause and Effect which kills the whole crew several times over. Then he dies during the spinal injury operation, and he dies when falling off the railing in cargo bay, only to be revived by the dude who is evolving to a new species.
And, doesn't he also die during one of the Q episodes, where Wesley also gets killed?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 14, 2014, 05:28:36 PM
I wonder if Michael ever realised he was being killed off over and over.



Did it ever DORN on him :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ddtonfire on October 14, 2014, 06:51:19 PM
On the subject of Wesley, the Enterprise crew really missed their chance with the Edo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on October 15, 2014, 01:37:25 AM
I'm on season 3 of ENT, and man, it's no surprise then whole thing got axed later. There's just so many stinkers, I'm right now watching "North Star", which is just a lame excuse to shoot a Western.

It wasn't great, but in comparison to the western episode in TNG where Worf and Alexander are in the holodeck (the name of the episode escapes me at the moment) it deserved an award. That TNG episode might have been the worst of the entire series, if not every ST series combined.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on October 15, 2014, 07:27:40 AM
Is that the one with native american issues? Also where Wesley has visions and meets back up with the traveler?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 15, 2014, 07:33:53 AM
North Star was a dud, but that season is easily the best. You're not even half way through, so you haven't seen a lot of the best stuff yet.

Watched "Strategem" yesterday, that was an excellent episode indeed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on October 15, 2014, 11:12:06 AM
Is that the one with native american issues? Also where Wesley has visions and meets back up with the traveler?

I had to go to IMDB to look it up. The episode is called "A Fistful of Datas" from season 6. Simply terrible episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on October 15, 2014, 12:38:10 PM
Is that the one with native american issues? Also where Wesley has visions and meets back up with the traveler?

I had to go to IMDB to look it up. The episode is called "A Fistful of Datas" from season 6. Simply terrible episode.

Ahh I looked up the one I was thinking and its Journey's End
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 18, 2014, 11:10:24 PM
Just finished ENT Season 3. Great overall story arc, but man, what a shoehorned cliffhanger at the end, and fricking alien Nazis to boot. Way to go, shitting on your own season culmination.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 18, 2014, 11:12:38 PM
The Nazi thing was really silly. That season arc deserved a conclusive ending (rather than dragging it out until S4), but maybe they thought the cliff hanger would improve their chances of getting renewed or something. I don't know. Star Trek seems to like using the Nazis.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 22, 2014, 10:10:06 PM
OK, on the last season of ENT right now, and yeah, a very mixed season. Hoshi just overrode Enterprise's decontamination chamber door from the inside, because "math is just another language". Ugh.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 22, 2014, 10:32:46 PM
OK, on the last season of ENT right now, and yeah, a very mixed season. Hoshi just overrode Enterprise's decontamination chamber door from the inside, because "math is just another language". Ugh.
Isn't that like the third or fourth time she's done improbable stuff with math because of her language skills? End of last season she cracked an alien encryption code.

And I probably wouldn't even call it a mixed season. It was mostly bad. They were trying to shoehorn in as many throwbacks and what not as possible, and it usually meant pretty bad episodes. The beginning of all of Brent Spiner's characters and Kahn's kids. Vulcan mind melds and katras (which nobody knew anything at all about 50 years later). Organians and their distaste for meddling in the affairs of others. Klingon heads and Section 31. Real life CGI Gorns and Tholians, along with a real life Constellation class ship with the uniforms. Like Blob calls it, fanwank.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 22, 2014, 10:43:35 PM
I'm with El Barto on S4.
I liked the Mirror universe episodes because the evil counterparts had a little more personality (which isn't hard to do), but even that was the same fanwank that tries to skirt through and around canon. And "These Are the Voyages" deserves its reputation as one of the worst things Trek ever did.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 22, 2014, 11:07:57 PM
I know my folder doesn't even include the proper version of TatV. It came with a fan edit, which I believe ditches all of the Troi/Riker nonsense. Not sure though as I haven't even watched that. Both times I rewatched ENT I couldn't get through season 4, so I don't guess I've seen the finale since it originally aired (and I don't think I bothered with that in realtime). I've got no problem ripping through the first 3 seasons; it's honestly better than most people give it credit for (particularly the second time through). Season 4 is just painful.

The mirror universe episode had a few things working for it. The opening title sequence was great, as was the hot, slutty Hoshi. Like most of the mirror universe episodes, though, the story largely sucked.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 22, 2014, 11:17:11 PM
I'm a completionist, so I keep every episode, and I watched TATV through once when I first watched the entire series. I have to see everything at least once, and at the very least I was curious to know if it was as bad as everyone said, and it sadly was.

But it's better with the Troi/Riker thing included, because at least then you can reasonably dismiss the entire piece of crap as a bad holodeck recreation based on faulty information. :lol: Even without the TNG wrapper, the episode stinks anyway. It's no loss to just skip it.

Terra Prime makes for a better finale too, and it ended with some good emotional scenes, especially by Phlox.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 23, 2014, 08:32:57 AM
The one I almost completely skipped was the "everything sucks on Earth" episode, where Phlox is bothered by racism etc. It's like, they couldn't rest a single second on the Xindi achievement.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 23, 2014, 06:01:28 PM
But yeah, I agree, too many forced throwbacks. Especially the Tellarites and the Orions, both of whom, let's be honest, were just plain TOS "alien of the week" nonsense.
I was about the post the sentence "at least they left the Gorn in TOS", but then I realized, that's actually the biggest shit show :(
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 23, 2014, 07:19:01 PM
"biggest shit show"? What do you mean?

The Gorn does appear in ENT S4, and it's all CG. Joy!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 23, 2014, 07:20:08 PM
But yeah, I agree, too many forced throwbacks. Especially the Tellarites and the Orions, both of whom, let's be honest, were just plain TOS "alien of the week" nonsense.
I was about the post the sentence "at least they left the Gorn in TOS", but then I realized, that's actually the biggest shit show :(
¿Que?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 23, 2014, 07:21:27 PM
If he's dissing Arena, I'm going to fashion a rudimentary cannon out of whatever I have lying around, and take him out.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 23, 2014, 07:44:33 PM
I'd dis the Gorn, but Arena was a good episode. Good commercial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hnBp7x2QAE), though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 23, 2014, 09:16:32 PM
I'm not dissing the original TOS Gorn episode, that one is a classic. I'm talking about the CGI Gorns in ENT. The episode hasn't come up yet, but I remember that they just totally ruined them.

And yeah, I love that ad :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 23, 2014, 09:19:07 PM
Oh, I thought you were watching ENT for the first time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 25, 2014, 07:22:48 PM
So, last episode of ENT. Man, the whole thing is supposed to play during the Pegasus, but Riker and Troi look like they partied for a whole week :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 25, 2014, 08:19:19 PM
Yeah, that wasn't believable for a start. :lol
Besides that, what did you think of that one?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 25, 2014, 09:50:09 PM
It's an unfortunate episode for sure. I mean, you can tell what they were trying to do, both make it a sendoff to *all* of Star Trek, and at the same time show the beginning of the Federation.
It's just that, it all came together the wrong way. For example, because everything is in the holodeck, and not time-synchronous either, you just never get invested in the fact that we're witnessing the birth of the Federation.
And Tripp's death was just so shoehorned in and unnecessary.
I read a review of the episode somewhere, and the reviewer also made the good point that it's really weird how the whole crew apparently went into total stasis for 6 years, with no personal or professional growth. Especially Tripp and T'Pol who had a child together the episode before and at the end hold hands, apparently just noodled on for 6 years with nothing happening, only to think about it suddenly.
I think the episode could have been a lot more believable if they had showed the crew having grown/changed etc. Maybe some person died (like Troi in All Good Things), Tripp and T'Pol being married etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 28, 2014, 09:58:16 AM
I was thinking about Enterprise the other day.

The actual quality of the show aside - I was thinking about the design of the ships :P

Because it's a modern TV show - so it has to look futuristic compared to our time - but at the same time has to look LESS futuristic than Kirks' Enterprise from

the original TV show... Must have been interesting for the Production Designers !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 28, 2014, 05:04:30 PM
It's even more complicated than that, because while TOS was futuristic, it was 1960s futuristic. Take for example the huge red triangle between Sulu and Chekov. It's an item of Enterprise's future, but it also clearly is a 1960s person's idea of the future.
And don't get me started on Spock's "shine in the eyes blue light" device. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 28, 2014, 06:08:39 PM
It's even more complicated than that, because while TOS was futuristic, it was 1960s futuristic. Take for example the huge red triangle between Sulu and Chekov. It's an item of Enterprise's future, but it also clearly is a 1960s person's idea of the future.
And don't get me started on Spock's "shine in the eyes blue light" device. :lol
Uh, typing too fast or did you have some weird brain-fart where you got stuck between English and Deutsch?  :lol

Agree with both assessments, though. From a design standpoint they were in a tough way. Add to that having to stay within canon (at least when they bothered).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 28, 2014, 06:28:21 PM
I've decided Rocks and Shoals is probably the best episode of DS9 that isn't called The Visitor or In the Pale Moonlight. Several different plot elements all work wonderfully. Aside from the excellent Sisko/Remataklon story, you've got the ultimate slimy Vorta, the turning point with Kira the collaborator, and the Vedik hanging herself in dramatic (and very cinematic) faction. Very well written and directed, to boot.

edit: Oh, and the fact that they redshirted one of the federation crewman was a great touch.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 28, 2014, 07:14:39 PM
It's even more complicated than that, because while TOS was futuristic, it was 1960s futuristic. Take for example the huge red triangle between Sulu and Chekov. It's an item of Enterprise's future, but it also clearly is a 1960s person's idea of the future.
And don't get me started on Spock's "shine in the eyes blue light" device. :lol

It's kind of hard to design a ship interior that looks less high-tech than TOS era. :lol They really did their best making the Enterprise (Reliant, same thing) interior look futuristic in In a Mirror Darkly, but no matter how you light it, those painted wooden sets just look super cheesy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 28, 2014, 07:19:30 PM
Defiant, bitch!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 28, 2014, 07:23:19 PM
:lol My bad. I knew that. I just woke up, so my brain isn't operating at what little capacity it usually manages yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 28, 2014, 07:37:34 PM
But you're right. Brightly lacquered balsa wood doesn't really look very spacey. And the chairs were straight out of a 60's ultramodern wetdream. Yet at the same time it actually did seem more like a functional spaceship than most of the others. D's bridge looked like the break room at Google HQ, and the rest of it might as well have been the Pacific Princess. Defiant just looked cluttered with people working wherever they could find a spot. At least with Enterprise they did actually make it look functionally thought out. Similar bridge. All the decks and quarters seemed cold and metallic. The engine room looked like it was lifted from a Russian Submarine.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 28, 2014, 07:40:18 PM
It's even more complicated than that, because while TOS was futuristic, it was 1960s futuristic. Take for example the huge red triangle between Sulu and Chekov. It's an item of Enterprise's future, but it also clearly is a 1960s person's idea of the future.
And don't get me started on Spock's "shine in the eyes blue light" device. :lol
Uh, typing too fast or did you have some weird brain-fart where you got stuck between English and Deutsch?  :lol

You just have to read it the right way :lol
I meant it in the "shine-in-the-eyes blue light" device kind of way.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on October 28, 2014, 07:47:35 PM
But yeah, ENT Enterprise was the most functional-looking bridge.
But, I also have to take exception to it at the same time, because it really only looked functional because it appealed to our current sense of functionality. Frankly, the Enterprise just looked like a US Army bridge (just like everything else in that show looked like from the US).
So, I actually would rather say DS9 did the most believable merge between futuristic design and functionality. It was the only non-ENT show where I thought "yeah, people could live like that".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 28, 2014, 07:48:03 PM
But you're right. Brightly lacquered balsa wood doesn't really look very spacey. And the chairs were straight out of a 60's ultramodern wetdream. Yet at the same time it actually did seem more like a functional spaceship than most of the others. D's bridge looked like the break room at Google HQ, and the rest of it might as well have been the Pacific Princess. Defiant just looked cluttered with people working wherever they could find a spot. At least with Enterprise they did actually make it look functionally thought out. Similar bridge. All the decks and quarters seemed cold and metallic. The engine room looked like it was lifted from a Russian Submarine.

I won't fault TNG for that, since they were intentionally going for that look, as if space travel had gotten to the point where it basically was an ocean liner, hence the families travelling on board. I recall they even originally planned to have couches on the bridge at one point. I think it's pretty typical of '80s futuristic design. In the 1960s, just getting into space at all was futuristic enough. :lol
You also have to keep in mind that Roddenberry had a huge boner for all things navy, which probably influenced the desire for functionality in the early designs. He wanted submarines in space.

Defiant actually had a pretty good bridge, and it's not all too different to the NX bridge, and it looked the most legit of the TNG era bridges. The whole NX had a very functional look, I guess because they had to strip it back to the bare basics to make it a plausible pre-cursor to TOS, and to separate it from the shiny plastic TNG era.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 28, 2014, 10:30:37 PM
I won't fault TNG for that, since they were intentionally going for that look, as if space travel had gotten to the point where it basically was an ocean liner, hence the families travelling on board. I recall they even originally planned to have couches on the bridge at one point. I think it's pretty typical of '80s futuristic design. In the 1960s, just getting into space at all was futuristic enough. :lol
You also have to keep in mind that Roddenberry had a huge boner for all things navy, which probably influenced the desire for functionality in the early designs. He wanted submarines in space.
I can see that working if you want a Starship Bistromath sort of thing, where the ship flies itself and you have nothing to focus on other than adventure. But they had 200 years of experience to tell them that lots of important stuff happens on the bridge. If you're going to be blowing people up and overseeing the welfare of a whole shit-ton of cruise passengers, you need a bridge and not a lounge.

I wonder why they never piped Muzak throughout the ship?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 29, 2014, 06:26:15 AM
Starship Bistromath
I know what it looks like.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 05, 2014, 05:26:18 PM
This news should make some of the old school Star Trek fans happy.

https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/389701-breaking-bob-orci-removed-from-star-trek-3#/slide/1
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 05, 2014, 05:30:13 PM
Oh My Fucking God - Please Jesus in heaven let Edgar Wright direct it. Oh my holy fuck yes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 05, 2014, 05:31:42 PM
I knew you'd be fapping. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 05, 2014, 05:36:48 PM
I was totally cool with Orci directing it because I wanted him to prove everyone wrong.

But if Edgar Wright gets the gig that would be a piece of fried gold.

Edgar would be perfect as he can do sci - fi as proven with World's End and action as proven with Scott Pilgrim and Comedy as with...well..everything..

And he's meticulous about plot and characters. So he'd be ideal. :)

If not him then JJ is probably free now since i'd imagine photography on SW7 is done.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 05, 2014, 09:15:39 PM
Never heard of this guy, never seen any of his movies, and it seems like a really oddball choice to me, but it's not Orci, so that's still an improvement.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 06, 2014, 04:15:56 AM
Never heard of this guy, never seen any of his movies, and it seems like a really oddball choice to me, but it's not Orci, so that's still an improvement.

Edgar Wright ?!  :eek

Shaun of The Dead
Hot Fuzz
Scott Pilgrim Vs The World
The World's End
Was going to direct Ant Man but quit.

Also directed the UK TV Show Spaced. And most of his stuff has been with Simon Pegg so you'd get a good Pegg performance !

He'd be the perfect choice.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 06, 2014, 04:17:08 AM
Blob, I've loved every movie he's done so far.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 06, 2014, 04:43:31 AM
Never heard of this guy, never seen any of his movies, and it seems like a really oddball choice to me, but it's not Orci, so that's still an improvement.

Edgar Wright ?!  :eek

Shaun of The Dead
Hot Fuzz
Scott Pilgrim Vs The World
The World's End
Was going to direct Ant Man but quit.

Also directed the UK TV Show Spaced. And most of his stuff has been with Simon Pegg so you'd get a good Pegg performance !

He'd be the perfect choice.

Never seen any of them, and none of them seem to relate to this style of movie at all. But I'm not pre-judging, as I've never seen his stuff. And I doubt I could like it any less than Into Darkness, so there's nowhere to go but up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 06, 2014, 04:46:40 AM
Blob, check out Shaun Of the Dead, Hot Fuzz and The world's End.  All great comedies with fun writing.  Not Star Trek Style but you'll like them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 06, 2014, 04:49:31 AM
Meh, not interested. You should know I'm pretty fussy with what I watch. :blob:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 06, 2014, 04:56:39 AM
Seriously, at least watch Shaun Of The Dead. It's dark and funny. I think you'd like it a ton.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 06, 2014, 09:43:40 AM
Edgar is known for meticulous plot details and making a small budget go a very long way.

I would love to see what he could do with a huge budget.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 06, 2014, 10:04:12 AM
This excites me
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 06, 2014, 11:35:27 AM
He is known for slapstick comedy. He is immensely talented, but I am not at all sure he is right for something like Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 06, 2014, 11:46:33 AM
He is known for slapstick comedy. He is immensely talented, but I am not at all sure he is right for something like Star Trek.


I'd hardly call "Spaced" slapstick comedy. He's not Adam Sandler.

Spaced is a cult sci fi sitcom which riffs on popular and nerd / geek culture.

Scott Pilgrim and World's End were both smaller budget movies and every penny is on the screen. he can certainly do good choreographed action and not just close up shaky cam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQA7HcRcLNg&spfreload=10

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 06, 2014, 04:44:42 PM
'tis the season:

https://youtu.be/RrG4JnrN5GA
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 06, 2014, 05:49:41 PM
He is known for slapstick comedy. He is immensely talented, but I am not at all sure he is right for something like Star Trek.


I'd hardly call "Spaced" slapstick comedy. He's not Adam Sandler.

Spaced is a cult sci fi sitcom which riffs on popular and nerd / geek culture.

Scott Pilgrim and World's End were both smaller budget movies and every penny is on the screen. he can certainly do good choreographed action and not just close up shaky cam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQA7HcRcLNg&spfreload=10
If he does it in the style of the first half of the trailer I'll be happy. If he opts for the second half action/sci-fi/laserexplosionmutantrobotbullshit I'll be gravely disappointed. Sadly, I'm not optimistic.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 06, 2014, 06:10:47 PM
Sadly, I'm not optimistic.

Well there's a surprise... ::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 06, 2014, 06:53:20 PM
Sadly, I'm not optimistic.

Well there's a surprise... ::)
Nah, you're just being negative.  :lol

I honestly don't know anything about this guy other than Shaun of the Dead, which was a pretty good flick if you only see it once. I think the guy's perfectly capable of directing an excellent ST film, though. Furthermore, unless they're lying about it this is going to be a deep space story, which automatically makes it far more interesting a premise than the last two. There are definite reasons to be hopeful about this. The concern is that it's still a mega-budget Hollywood blockbuster, and it's still going to have the same expectations as before, with the same target audience. As such, I doubt anybody short of Steven Spielberg would be allowed to make it as a character and suspense driven film. Action and lasers are what's expected, and sadly I suspect that's what we'll get stuck with. That trailer merely demonstrated that this guy is capable of doing either. Still, I very much hope to be wrong.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 06, 2014, 08:56:12 PM
https://youtu.be/4n2dGwYcp9k

Star Trek theme played on two harps by twins in uniform. Yeah.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on December 09, 2014, 01:09:53 AM
https://www.treknews.net/2014/12/07/jonathan-frakes-star-trek-3-bring-in-riker/

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 09, 2014, 01:47:33 AM
As much as I like the guy, I'm not convinced he'd be the best choice for a major Hollywood film, and I don't think his TNG cred would make the slightest difference.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 09, 2014, 06:44:06 AM
First Contact was decent but Inusrrrection was just bad.  I'd sooner have JJ than Frakes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 09, 2014, 06:48:22 AM
First Contact was decent but Inusrrrection was just bad.  I'd sooner have JJ than Frakes.

Frakes only directed those movies, he didn't produce them, so that's not all on him.
On the other hand JJ produced and directed both films, so I can squarely blame him for most of their faults.
I'll take Insurrection over Star Trek 12: The Wrath of JJ any day. It's not one of the best Trek movies, but it's not bad.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 09, 2014, 07:13:22 AM
All the TNG movies have aged really badly for me except generations which I still love.

I can watch the JJ Star Trek films again and again.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 09, 2014, 07:23:46 AM
All the TNG movies have aged really badly for me except generations which I still love.

I can watch the JJ Star Trek films again and again.
We are opposites.  I never want to see either of them again, and I won't see this third one, either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 09, 2014, 07:34:43 AM
Star Trek 11 is decent, and I've watched that several times. I got Into Darkness on DVD last year for Christmas and still haven't built up the courage to watch that dog pile again. I'll watch the third one because I'm a big Trek fan, and am totally starved for scifi, but my expectations are currently pretty low. If Orci/Kurtzman were to die in some kind of horrible accident, maybe I'd have some faith.

I'd take a good classic Trek movie over either of the new ones.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 09, 2014, 07:59:47 AM
Well the 3rd one is only produced by Orci and two newcomers wrote the script. If Edsgar Wright gets the chair i'll be more excited because of how much focus he puts on his own scripts.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 09, 2014, 08:05:23 AM
So this will have new writers? That's a good start.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 09, 2014, 08:07:18 AM
So this will have new writers? That's a good start.

Two new writers, no Kurtzman producing/writing and a new director.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 09, 2014, 08:08:08 AM
Having Orci producing would still make me incredibly wary though, so I'm hoping for the other guy. Or anyone else. Or even nobody would be better.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 09, 2014, 08:13:08 AM
I'll watch condensed versions of both of them. ST 11 is 45 minutes of pretty entertaining ST and 45 minutes of chases, fights, explosions, and jumbled messes of starship battles. While I haven't tried to condense TWoJJ down, I suspect it'd work out exactly the same way.

And if any of the TNG people were to direct the thing, I'd go with Kunte Kinte. He directed some excellent episodes, including some important ones for DS9 and Timless and Similitude which are among the tops in VOY/ENT.



edit: I thought Orci was still writing? I'm with Blob. If he's completely gone my faith goes up a bit. It's purpose for the studio still concerns me, but whoever they bring on board might find a way to turn the thing around.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 09, 2014, 08:19:49 AM
First Contact is one of the best ST movies there is. Insurrection wasn't stellar (oh, the pun!), but still good.
At the very least Frakes knows what Star Trek is about. I don't think Abrams does. I'm all for reimagining ST, and Abrams successfully did that, but I also think they drifted away too much from that vision Roddenberry had.
In fact, if I may make that comment, it seems hip these days to portray a dystopic future. Let's you do a ton of fights, which keeps the CGI servers nice and toasty. I wish someone had the balls of going back to Roddenberry's vision of a positive future.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 09, 2014, 08:27:48 AM
I would argue that almost anyone who makes a Star Trek film is drifting away too far from Roddenberry, because Star Trek has always worked best as an episodic TV series, not a movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 09, 2014, 09:06:30 AM
Agreed Hef.  I also think that Star Trek was loosing steam with the newer generation that needs all the bells and whistles of today's movies.  The hardcore fans like EB, Rumbo and Blob do not like the newer franchise but is has brought in new fans and revived a stumbling franchise.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 09, 2014, 09:09:19 AM
Agreed Hef.  I also think that Star Trek was loosing steam with the newer generation that needs all the bells and whistles of today's movies.  The hardcore fans like EB, Rumbo and Blob do not like the newer franchise but is has brought in new fans and revived a stumbling franchise.

I wouldn't say I don't like the new franchise, as I do like the first movie, and don't mind the new universe and casting in general. I would say I don't like the modern school of scifi films that are nothing but mindless action strung together with some flimsy plot.
You'd think after two successful movies, they'd have a bit of freedom to do something a bit more intelligent, but I think it will likely be more of the same.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 09, 2014, 09:16:21 AM
I get that for sure but in this day and age, it works for the mindless drones out there looking for action films.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 09, 2014, 09:45:57 AM
Yeah, it's rather sad that a SciFi movie with a proper plot generates a major uproar (e.g. Interstellar), since the default is "mindless blowups". And it's particularly sad that Star Trek is more and more becoming one of those. The first movie was OK, but the second one ... eh. That copying TWOK wasn't going to work that well, particularly with a guy who doesn't look or sound like the original, should have been rather obvious.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 11, 2014, 05:17:04 AM
Jonathan Frakes has said he'd love to direct Star Trek (1)3 . He's reportedly been in touch with Paramount to offer his services and there is a trend on twitter to

"BringInRiker"

Do we think that with a mega budget - he'd be able to bring some of that First Contact style ? he can definitely "do dark". Just keep away from all the silly stuff of

Insurrection. Obviously he knows Trek and has directed many times before but Edgar Wright or Joseph Kosinski would be my top 2 choices.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 05:26:22 AM
If I had a dollar for every ex Trek actor who has contacted Paramount/CBS for something Star Trek related and been turned down, I could fund this next movie myself. :lol

Of course he'd love to direct a big budget movie like that. The last and only cinematic releases he's ever directed are the two Star Trek movies. The rest is all television. While he has a lot of directing experience on television, I don't think he has the cred for them to let him direct this.
I think it's just a fanboy pipedream because they think it will somehow save this movie, but that's misunderstanding what a director actually does.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 11, 2014, 05:47:48 AM
Actually he has a few other big screen directors credits but nothing noteworthy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 05:54:31 AM
Ah so he does. I totally missed those while skimming his IMDB page. If anything those would work against him anyway, given how poorly received they were critically and commercially. It doesn't look like the kind of person you'd be jumping to direct your 150 million dollar blockbuster movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 11, 2014, 06:54:24 AM
Probably would have less lens flare though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 11, 2014, 07:01:43 AM
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 11, 2014, 10:24:04 AM
I don't really get the hate for Insurrection. Sure, it felt like a long TNG episode, but I'm not sure I see the problem with that. Nemesis on the other hand deserves all the hate it gets. Shinzon didn't look like Picard at all so I never bought into the premise, and the B-4 subplot was just stupid.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 10:26:25 AM
I don't really get the hate for Insurrection. Sure, it felt like a long TNG episode, but I'm not sure I see the problem with that.

Ditto. It's certainly not one of the best Trek movies, but I don't see anything wrong with it. Trek is at its best on TV, so I don't necessarily see the problem with it feeling like a long TNG episode either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 11, 2014, 10:30:52 AM
It's a good movie but coming off the heels of First Contact, most of the movie viewers felt underwhelmed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 11, 2014, 10:32:10 AM
Yeah, Insurrection was fine. It suffered from the same flaws as FC, but people loved that because of the Borg and the shootouts and whatnot. The problem is disregarding the characterizations, IMO. At least with Insurrection they had the fountain of youth thing to explain everybody acting out of character. In FC it was just Picard becoming an obsessive Rambo for not much reason.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 11, 2014, 10:55:54 AM
It's a good movie but coming off the heels of First Contact, most of the movie viewers felt underwhelmed.

Yes pretty much this.  And the fact that it was blatantly obvious ILM didn't do the CGI for the movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 15, 2014, 12:14:41 PM
So a new report suggests that Paramount are in negotiations with Rupert Wyatt who directed Rise Of The Planet of The Apes - but not it's sequel - directed by Matt Reeves.

Interesting choice. I remember his name mentioned when JJ Abrams first jumped ship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 15, 2014, 09:39:19 PM
Both new POTA movies were good examples of what modern Hollywood movies should be, so I'd be for that. Matt Reeves would be even better though. He played a big part in making Dawn what it was, rather than a mindless evil ape story.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 17, 2014, 05:05:40 PM
So Decker wasn't only into bald chicks.



https://www.seattlepi.com/entertainment/tv/tvguide/article/7th-Heaven-Star-Stephen-Collins-Admits-to-5963067.php
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 17, 2014, 05:50:18 PM
:( oh......


I bet those kids wanted that less than Jim kirk wanted the enterprise.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Fast & The Furious
Post by: Kotowboy on December 22, 2014, 04:55:51 PM
https://uk.ign.com/articles/2014/12/22/fast-and-the-furious-s-justin-lin-to-direct-star-trek-3?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social



:|
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 22, 2014, 05:08:17 PM
Sadly, I'm not optimistic.

Well there's a surprise... ::)
Sorry to be correct on this one. Still, like I said, it's Hollywood and they've got their target audience for the franchise. They're not going to blow 200 million on good sci-fi. They'd rather make it that action/sci-fi/laserexplosionmutantrobotbullshit that fills up 3d theaters.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 22, 2014, 05:12:01 PM
Not to be a negative nancy - but JJ resisted 3D until Paramount said they would pull the film unless it was in 3D forcing JJ to film in 2D and convert afterwards.

I haven't seen any of Justin Lin's movies but as a F&F director - is he going to be even MORE action oriented than JJ was ? Or can he do characters and plot too ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 22, 2014, 05:30:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9CmTAyYjbk
Yeah, this pretty much sums up TFatF. Looking at IMDB that seems to be about what the guy's good for.

And yeah, "these pictures."  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 22, 2014, 05:33:46 PM
Well he didn't direct the first few - only the most recent 3. . . And according to wiki - he's done plenty more than just the F&F movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 22, 2014, 05:59:43 PM
Well he didn't direct the first few - only the most recent 3. . .
Yeah, that's not actually a good sign.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 22, 2014, 06:13:44 PM
Oh FFS. There goes all hope for this one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 22, 2014, 06:16:28 PM
Maybe - i'll just watch the ones I enjoy. I'll still go see it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 22, 2014, 08:38:09 PM
I'll still go see it, because it's Trek, but it's obvious what direction Paramount wants to take these movies, and it's not a good direction for Trek.
Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, and it will turn out good, but more likely it's going to be another empty excuse for explosions and crashes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nick on December 22, 2014, 08:43:34 PM
W. T. F.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 22, 2014, 08:49:46 PM
That's a very disappointing development.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 22, 2014, 09:33:20 PM
Too bad it's paramount and not Sony. It'd probably only take a couple of us, three tops, to bully them into changing directions.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 23, 2014, 10:00:52 AM
*shrugs*

I don't think it's necessarily a bad choice.  I feel better about it than Orci.  And he certainly knows how to work with big budgets and bring butts to seats.

I have no idea what he knows/loves about Star Trek.  But I think that may not be the most relevant thing in the world.

But I would much rather see no third film in this iteration at all.  Just scrap it and bring Trek back to TV where it belongs.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 23, 2014, 10:05:29 AM
Lin has a lot of TV and non-action credits as a director. I think at WORST we'll get a fun action movie.

I have mixed feeling naturally. Guess we'll wait and see. But i'm not writing it off instantly like a lot of people are.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on December 23, 2014, 06:06:51 PM
Just scrap it and bring Trek back to TV where it belongs.

QFT
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on December 23, 2014, 06:24:58 PM
I have no idea what he knows/loves about Star Trek.  But I think that may not be the most relevant thing in the world.
Considering Abrams, I don't think it really matters much anymore.

The most important thing is they get someone who can write a fricken script and not hack one out. That's more important than who directs it IMO.

I think at WORST we'll get a fun action movie.
So.... basically ST09 and STID again then.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2014, 07:55:32 PM
I have no idea what he knows/loves about Star Trek.  But I think that may not be the most relevant thing in the world.
Considering Abrams, I don't think it really matters much anymore.

The most important thing is they get someone who can write a fricken script and not hack one out. That's more important than who directs it IMO.

I think at WORST we'll get a fun action movie.
So.... basically ST09 and STID again then.

FTFM. STID was not a fun experience for me.
Star Trek really needs to return to TV, with someone in charge who understands real scifi. TV is in desperate need of some scifi right now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 23, 2014, 08:20:13 PM

Star Trek really needs to return to TV, with someone in charge who understands real scifi. TV is in desperate need of some scifi right now.
The question is where do you go with it? Another 75 years into the future? You've got two different gaps in what they've done, but you'd be so surrounded by canon that you'd be pretty limited. That's why VOY worked (at least to the two of us). You can't really set it in a static location, as we saw with DS9. The one thing JJA did right was finding a way to reboot the whole thing to provide a blank slate. Yet transferring that to TV wouldn't work without that cast, and sadly that won't happen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2014, 08:27:40 PM

Star Trek really needs to return to TV, with someone in charge who understands real scifi. TV is in desperate need of some scifi right now.
The question is where do you go with it? Another 75 years into the future? You've got two different gaps in what they've done, but you'd be so surrounded by canon that you'd be pretty limited. That's why VOY worked (at least to the two of us). You can't really set it in a static location, as we saw with DS9. The one thing JJA did right was finding a way to reboot the whole thing to provide a blank slate. Yet transferring that to TV wouldn't work without that cast, and sadly that won't happen.

That is a definite issue. Obviously they're not bringing this cast to TV, and recasting them would probably be lame and cheap, and recasting such iconic characters yet again for TV would be a real task. I don't think it's a wise idea to return to the prime universe at this point either, as much as I love it, for the reasons mentioned.

I think the most likely scenarios are either a new show that spins off shortly after the next movie, new characters/cast, that acknowledges the events of the movies, but isn't really connected to it, or they could reboot TNG in the new universe, make a few changes to reflect the new timeline, distance themselves from it while still having that blank slate.

I really don't know. I'm not saying these are the best options, but I see them as the most likely avenues for Trek to return to TV at this point.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 26, 2014, 02:10:19 AM
Bob Orci has confirmed on TrekMovie.com forum that he has been reduced to "Producing. Nothing More. Nothing Less."

Still no news on who is writing the script if they have one. But now there's no Kurtzman, No Orci directing and no Orci writing either.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 27, 2014, 10:57:05 AM
I dub thee the new Chat Thread!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 27, 2014, 12:24:09 PM
(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10525802_982906671726114_5644423378198023480_n.jpg?oh=b5a78682e1d211eb30c96c8f0e9e7bb9&oe=5540C492)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 28, 2014, 04:17:10 AM
However the new film ends up - the 3 films still won't be as bad as the SW prequels ;p

I'll take Star Trek Into Darkness over Attack Of The Clones any day.

YES I KNOW THATS NOT SAYING MUCH.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 28, 2014, 04:36:38 AM
BUT THAT'S NOT SAYING MU.........

Dangit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 28, 2014, 04:55:00 AM
I really wish they'd release the DS9 series on Blu Ray.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 28, 2014, 05:22:32 AM
I really wish they'd release the DS9 series on Blu Ray.

If TNG does well enough on Bluray, DS9 should be next, but like TNG, it will take time for them to redo all of the episodes in HD.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 28, 2014, 07:42:18 AM
Now I have a PS4 I'll have to get all of TNG and the 12 movies on blu ray :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on January 01, 2015, 11:31:57 PM
The Starship Enterprise is 50 years old.

December 29, 1964.  Richard Datin, Mel Keys, and Vern Sions pose outside the model shop in Burbank, California, with the newly-completed model of the original Starship Enterprise.

(https://i62.tinypic.com/2rvxx06.jpg)

Designed by art director Walter M. Jefferies (in whose honor the Jefferies Tubes are named), the model is currently being prepared for its new home in the Boeing "Milestones of Flight" Gallery, opening in 2016 at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 04, 2015, 10:21:22 AM
:metal
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 04, 2015, 01:30:08 PM
The Starship Enterprise is 50 years old.

December 29, 1964.  Richard Datin, Mel Keys, and Vern Sions pose outside the model shop in Burbank, California, with the newly-completed model of the original Starship Enterprise.

(https://i62.tinypic.com/2rvxx06.jpg)

Designed by art director Walter M. Jefferies (in whose honor the Jefferies Tubes are named), the model is currently being prepared for its new home in the Boeing "Milestones of Flight" Gallery, opening in 2016 at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum.
It's already in the Smithsonian. Alas, it's in the gift shop (places I habitually avoid) so I didn't know to look for it.

Amusingly, when I asked a guide at Udvar-Hazy where it was he said "uh, it's taking up the entire back half of the place--you can see it from here," pointing at the space shuttle. I said no, I mean the Star Trek model. "Oh, yeah, it's this way. Follow me." He then proceeded to take me to this:

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2609/3732714160_9db4a3e4fc.jpg)

 :lol  Uh, yeah. Thanks Old Dude.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 14, 2015, 10:09:31 AM
I love this essay.  Probably because it restates my opinion  :lol

https://trekmovie.com/2015/01/11/editorial-the-future-of-star-trek-its-the-story-stupid/
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 14, 2015, 10:51:57 AM
I agree with what Red Letter Media say though : no film studio is ever going to put out Star Trek The Motion Picture again.

They're not going to pay $150m to make a film that makes $60m back.

These big action films make the money. That's the truth of it.

The last film that was mostly all about the plot and not the big space battle and action was Star Trek 6 almost 24 years ago.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 14, 2015, 11:20:13 AM
Quote
the humans on Star Trek aren’t even human. The aliens are human.
Always nice to see your opinions validated by some random stranger on the internet.

Naturally I agree with most of what he says. However, I was thinking a few weeks ago about an idea that he dismisses outright (which is fine except he dismisses it for the wrong reason). I think a ST anthology series would be pretty cool. We've seen very in depth portrayals of specific chunks of the space-time continuum. It'd be interesting as fuck to see some random, unknown corners of the canon. What was the NCC-1894 Cocksucker doing the last week of the Dominion War? What was the Intrepid doing a month before it died? The NX-2 might have had some interesting adventure at some point. I'll bet the Valiant and the Equinox had all sorts of crazy shit happen to them before the events leading to their respective demises. A day in the life of a psychotic Klingon? Romulan poltics?

By staying outside of the 5 key elements you've opened up a shitload of canon to play around with still inside of their universe. Christ, we could come up with 5 seasons worth of great stories in the ST universe since they don't have to be linked to any one series at a time. A lot of really good ST has come outside of the common context. Below Decks was very good and dealt mostly with nobodys. O'Brien spends an episode inside some criminal syndicate and goes Donnie Brasko. Worf spends two episodes stuck in some Romulan/Klingon interment camp. As a rule you would rarely be recasting people, and they'd be largely unknown if you did. At the same time, John Savage might be keen to do a ST movie of the week; who knows. It's also possible that you stumble across a ship/crew that are particularly popular out of some random actors you through together for some one off story. Seems like a series could spin off naturally from something like that, which wasn't something dreamt up by the same people using a formula to make money. 

Downside is that it'd be cost prohibitive. Try telling a studio principle shooting will be on a Constellation bridge one week and inside a Borg cube the next. "Oh, and in a couple of weeks we'll need 300 Andorian extras for a two-parter!"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on January 14, 2015, 01:01:22 PM
That sounds incredible.  But it would never happen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 14, 2015, 05:02:50 PM
Yeah, that would be a cool idea.

Not sure whether you guys followed this today, but two guys free-climbed El Capitan today. I always thought Kirk freesoloing El Capitan probably sounded cool on paper, but when they actually stuck middle aged Shatner on the rock, it didn't really translate.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 16, 2015, 07:17:12 AM
I heard some morning show DJs downplaying that climb of El Capitan because it wasn't free soloing.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 16, 2015, 09:22:24 AM
Jesus.

I have to admit, I am a rock climber myself, but I had to inform myself what was actually so special about this achievement, since it looked like regular trad climbing to me. Well, it is, but apparently all previous ascents had been done with "aid climbing", where you use special hooks to cling to the wall. These guys did it all with their fingers.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on January 16, 2015, 09:33:30 AM
I did rock climbing once.  It was a 20-foot wall in a sporting goods store.  The "rock wall" was some kind of heavy plastic, and the footholds were colorful things bolted onto it.  I wore a harness attached to a pulley manned by a guy half my age.  No danger at all.  Still, I got maybe halfway up and decided that maybe rock climbing isn't for me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 16, 2015, 12:30:31 PM
I did rock climbing once.  It was a 20-foot wall in a sporting goods store.  The "rock wall" was some kind of heavy plastic, and the footholds were colorful things bolted onto it.  I wore a harness attached to a pulley manned by a guy half my age.  No danger at all.  Still, I got maybe halfway up and decided that maybe rock climbing isn't for me.


:rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 16, 2015, 12:40:53 PM
If you rock climb with no safety gear at all - people only marvel at " wow - you didn't die ".

If you climbed Mt. Everest with full safety gear etc and made it up and back down alive - people are more like " Wow - you climbed Mt. Everest. "

For me at least - climbing El Capitan with full safety gear is more impressive than doing it with absolutely none - because that's just stupid IMO.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on January 16, 2015, 01:26:44 PM
That's kinda where I am.  I would never climb a mountain just because it's there, but if I did, I'd be fully geared up.  When people climb Mt. Everest, I'm impressed.  When people climb up a cliff with just their bare hands and no safety gear, I can't even relate.  I mean, I'm impressed, but I'm so busy being blown away by how out-of-their-fucking-minds they are that I kinda forget to be impressed.  I usually just think they're out of their fucking minds.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 16, 2015, 02:13:21 PM
Fucking Everest. It used to be that climbing the thing was a true statement about being a badass; it was a bold accomplishment. Now it's honestly just a statement about how shallow you are. You're willing to spend $50k and 2 months of sheer misery just to be part of a club of thousands that spent 90 seconds standing on top of the thing (assuming weather and luck of the draw even permits you to make it). I'm far more impressed by somebody who'll spend that $50k living on a beach in Phuket like Nikki Fucking Sixx.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 16, 2015, 02:29:31 PM
Well, when you climb Mt. Everest, you can become a road marker!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Boots
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 16, 2015, 02:48:07 PM
 :metal
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 16, 2015, 03:18:40 PM
That's horrible...

yet kinda awesome.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on January 16, 2015, 08:35:51 PM
Every time I find threads like this, I look over at my wife and tell her how awesomely funny my DTF friends are.

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on January 22, 2015, 12:51:40 AM
https://www.treknews.net/2015/01/21/simon-pegg-co-write-star-trek-3/

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 22, 2015, 12:55:07 AM
I read that earlier, but from a crappy site.
It's like nobody involved has any clue what Star Trek is. Directed by Fast and Furious guy, co-written by Simon Pegg, this is shaping up to be even worse than Into Darkness. It will be a miracle if I'm even able to sit through the next one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on January 22, 2015, 02:31:05 AM
I read that earlier, but from a crappy site.
It's like nobody involved has any clue what Star Trek is. Directed by Fast and Furious guy, co-written by Simon Pegg, this is shaping up to be even worse than Into Darkness. It will be a miracle if I'm even able to sit through the next one.

I'm not sure what to expect at this point. My expectations are definitely pretty low, however.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 22, 2015, 06:03:56 AM
You do know Pegg is a huge Trek fan yes ?

Plus his Blood & Ice Cream Trilogy was very well written.

I thought everyone would be over the moon that an actual TREK FAN was writing this and Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman no longer have anything to do with it..

Apart from the director - this has taken a huge turn for the better.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 22, 2015, 06:23:01 AM
 :lol If it was announced that Nick Meyer was directing and Harve Bennett & Leonard Nimoy were writing it

El Barto and Blob would still bitch and moan.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 22, 2015, 06:38:32 AM
:lol If it was announced that Nick Meyer was directing and Harve Bennett & Leonard Nimoy were writing it

El Barto and Blob would still bitch and moan.



We're really not that hard to please (ok, I can't speak for Barto :lol ), it just seems that Hollywood and the entertainment industry in general has zero interest in real science fiction that isn't empty eye candy for the masses.

The Planet of the Apes movies were the perfect example of good writing that didn't rely on randomly jumping around from one explosion fight to another. If they announced they'd gotten the writing team from those movies, or either of the directors, then I'd be jumping out of my chair in excitement. Give me a director who makes silly car movies and a comedian writer who happens to already be on the cast, and it should be fully expected that people are going to be less than thrilled at Paramount's half-assedness with this franchise.

If Star Trek was even half as well organized as the Star Wars franchise, they could be doing great things both in film and in television.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on January 22, 2015, 06:43:36 AM
Star wars may be well organized but their last trilogy was so poorly written, that it turned Science fiction fans into Telemundo fans.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 22, 2015, 06:49:38 AM
Pegg may be a comic actor but he can definitely write.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 22, 2015, 06:51:48 AM
Star wars may be well organized but their last trilogy was so poorly written, that it turned Science fiction fans into Telemundo fans.

The prequel trilogy was total crap, because George Lucas was totalitarian and surrounded himself with yes men.
But as a franchise overall, it's been much more centralized and organized. And the new movie is shaping up perfectly so far. They really know what the fans want, they've got someone in charge who actually likes the franchise (which sadly wasn't the case when that same man was in charge of Trek), and they've got all of the right people involved, and have really taken on board the complaints about the prequels. And they've got one or two people at the top making the big decisions about the franchise.

With Star Trek, we were stuck with a producer/director who disliked the franchise, trying to force it to be something it's not, and now it seems they're completely aimless on this third movie. I have no idea what we're going to end up with at this point.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 22, 2015, 06:54:22 AM
Pegg may be a comic actor but he can definitely write.
He can definitely write comic stuff.  I have no reason to believe he can write Star Trek.

I think I'm done with Star Trek movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on January 22, 2015, 06:56:38 AM
I think the opposite.  Yes I agree that Star Trek has always been story driven.  The rating for the last TV show and the movie franchises were doing so poorly that they needed a different approach.  Trek fans cringe but it's the truth.  I myself hope out of this that the newer movies lead to a TV show again where they can concentrate on the storyline again and let the movies be the action films to draw the non Trek fans in.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 22, 2015, 07:02:56 AM
I think they should do away with movies altogether.  Star Trek is built for TV. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 22, 2015, 07:10:49 AM
I think the opposite.  Yes I agree that Star Trek has always been story driven.  The rating for the last TV show and the movie franchises were doing so poorly that they needed a different approach.  Trek fans cringe but it's the truth.  I myself hope out of this that the newer movies lead to a TV show again where they can concentrate on the storyline again and let the movies be the action films to draw the non Trek fans in.

My greatest fear is that anyone from the new movies is involved in any new TV show. There was a rumour a little while ago about Orci being involved with a new Trek series set in the new universe, which is the worst case scenario.
The later TNG movies and Enterprise did poorly because they were not great. It's not like the masses were rejecting high quality scifi here. TV is currently starved for some good scifi, and there are so many talented people who could make it happen. I'd actually love to see Simon Barry in charge of a new series. I'd nerd out big time at that. :blob:

I think they should do away with movies altogether.  Star Trek is built for TV. 

I've always agreed with that. Star Trek has always worked best on television, as a lot of scifi does imo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on January 22, 2015, 07:17:26 AM
Let's hope that the newer interest again in Start Trek leads to a TV show and we discuss it's meters then.  At least I'm hoping for that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 22, 2015, 07:40:14 AM
Let's hope that the newer interest again in Start Trek leads to a TV show and we discuss it's meters then.  At least I'm hoping for that.
Yeah, but the new interest isn't in what Star Trek has always been.  The interest is in big-budget action sci-fi films, that are Star Trek in name only.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on January 22, 2015, 07:48:20 AM
Doesn't mean it won't peak those dummy executives on TV.  I for one want another TV show.  It's long overdue.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2015, 06:05:53 AM
Was watching an episode of TNG at bro's house and pointed out that it's funny when everyone on screen has to be in shot and just as I said it - there's a shot of all the bridge crew

looking at the screen - and the angle changes and you just see Troi at the back just step into frame for some reason  :rollin

Later on there's a shot of two people talking and someone high up on a balcony just casually steps into frame.  :biggrin:

So funny.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 25, 2015, 05:46:34 AM
Patrick Stewart telling a funny story about putting on a French accent for Picard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPDJJ-Iz-_A
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 25, 2015, 10:32:55 AM
Sharron Osbourne needs to die a horrible fucking death, but other than that a fun video.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on January 26, 2015, 05:24:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7Ao9J3G.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 26, 2015, 05:34:56 PM
Mind blown
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 27, 2015, 04:53:24 AM
 :metal
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 29, 2015, 09:30:17 PM
Totally random thought I just had: It's weird that the two bookending series (TOS & ENT) are the least "Star Trek" to me.
They're kinda like WDADU: Sure, it got the whole thing started, but one really only listens to it for completion's sake.
I don't know; to me, TNG, VOY and DS9 are the real "Star Trek" to me. Anybody else feel that way?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 29, 2015, 09:49:54 PM
No. I look at it as Star Trek I and Star Trek II, with TOS being one and everything else being 2. Two very different series. Since I grew up on it, TOS remains the real deal. The others are pretty much the opposite, in that the roles of humans and aliens are reversed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on January 29, 2015, 09:53:26 PM
You pretty much have to be under 40 to poo-poo on ToS.    The over-40 crowd still love nearly every second of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2015, 10:02:43 PM
Totally random thought I just had: It's weird that the two bookending series (TOS & ENT) are the least "Star Trek" to me.
They're kinda like WDADU: Sure, it got the whole thing started, but one really only listens to it for completion's sake.
I don't know; to me, TNG, VOY and DS9 are the real "Star Trek" to me. Anybody else feel that way?

Sorta. I can't really take TOS seriously on the same level as the later series, and when they contradict each other, I naturally give the benefit of the doubt to the later series. But unlike WDADU, TOS is still enjoyable. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 29, 2015, 10:17:24 PM
Totally random thought I just had: It's weird that the two bookending series (TOS & ENT) are the least "Star Trek" to me.
They're kinda like WDADU: Sure, it got the whole thing started, but one really only listens to it for completion's sake.
I don't know; to me, TNG, VOY and DS9 are the real "Star Trek" to me. Anybody else feel that way?

Sorta. I can't really take TOS seriously on the same level as the later series, and when they contradict each other, I naturally give the benefit of the doubt to the later series. But unlike WDADU, TOS is still enjoyable. :lol
This never made any sense to me at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 29, 2015, 10:34:25 PM
Totally random thought I just had: It's weird that the two bookending series (TOS & ENT) are the least "Star Trek" to me.
They're kinda like WDADU: Sure, it got the whole thing started, but one really only listens to it for completion's sake.
I don't know; to me, TNG, VOY and DS9 are the real "Star Trek" to me. Anybody else feel that way?

Sorta. I can't really take TOS seriously on the same level as the later series, and when they contradict each other, I naturally give the benefit of the doubt to the later series. But unlike WDADU, TOS is still enjoyable. :lol
This never made any sense to me at all.

TOS was making shit up as it went along with little regard for continuity, because that's how TV was in the '60s. It even contradicted itself. The later series actually tried to make a consistent and plausible universe, so obviously had to retcon the stuff that didn't work. Sticking to every word of TOS is comparable to Christians still believing the world is 6000 years old. It doesn't work. At some point you have to relax the interpretation a bit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 30, 2015, 06:45:47 AM
Even Roddenberry saw it that way. TNG took preference when it came to canon.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 30, 2015, 08:21:46 AM
Sticking to every word of TOS is comparable to Christians still believing the world is 6000 years old. It doesn't work. At some point you have to relax the interpretation a bit.


 :angry: Hey!! I'm a Christian and I'll have you know that my great great great great grandfather was a Pterodactyl !!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 30, 2015, 08:30:38 AM
Even Roddenberry saw it that way. TNG took preference when it came to canon.
Yeah, but Roddenberry was a maniac.  :lol

Y'alls point makes sense. Where I run into a problem is that people criticize TOS pretty hard for the contradictions TNG made. Seems to me that if you're going to dump all over one of them for contradictory canon it should be the latter (if you feel the need to dump on any at all).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 30, 2015, 11:01:01 AM
I don't blame Roddenberry for the contradictions, and I especially don't blame him for taking TNG to have preference when it comes to canon. As said, for TOS they wrote as they went along, and the "theremin background music" feeling was more important than internal consistency.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 30, 2015, 12:54:19 PM
Whelp, reading up on ST canon it seems that it wasn't TOS that was making it up as it went along, but Roddenberry throughout the whole shebang. Seems that they only really started minding it once he was gone and Piller and Berman were running things. GR actually didn't consider some of the movies canon, and was pretty clear that he had no problem being a revisionist whenever it suited his needs. 

On the bright side, it seems he'd actually be pleased that Rumbo considers TOS non-Trek:
Quote
With a charm and sincerity that clearly came from a person who was used to studying human behavior from the perspective of one who looked into the future, Roddenberry said that he expected -- indeed, he hoped -- that in the years to come, new generations of fans would look at the new forms of STAR TREK being produced and say, "This is real STAR TREK.  Those other people back there at the beginning, they didn't do it half as well.""»
Like I keep saying, the man was a fucking menace.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 30, 2015, 04:27:17 PM
I mean, I'm not saying TOS isn't Star Trek. That would be silly. But, ST 2.0, as you call it, is the consistent main body of Star Trek, where characters and plots interconnect.
Maybe the WDADU comparison isn't the best, maybe The Hobbit vs LOTR?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on January 30, 2015, 04:40:29 PM
I think both are valid analogies.  There's no question that TOS has a different feel and is a product of a different time.  It was episodic television, as there was nothing else at the time.  The fact that even a few episodes had characters and plot lines come back was considered pretty cool at the time.  But it's the one that started it all, and it does have a common lineage and definitely has much in common with what was to come.

By the 80's, multi-episode and even season-long story arcs were becoming more common.  I've tried a few times to watch Deep Space Nine because I've heard it's the best them, but whenever I do, I always feel like I've stepped into the middle of something and have no idea what's going on.  So there is also a potential downside.

But yeah, there's no question that TNG, DS9, and even Voyager are more "serious" television, with much greater care given to continuity and (with the exception of Voyager) character growth.  I can see Roddenberry considering these later series more real, more like what he was trying to do in the 60's but couldn't because TV audiences (and network executives) just weren't ready for it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 30, 2015, 05:22:27 PM
Yeah, I'm on board with both of those posts. ST2.0 (that works pretty well) is certainly where most of the canon exists and pretty much makes up the ST universe. At the same time, and this is certainly largely based on nostalgia and whatnot, TOS is what I always wanted ST to be with everything else being a different show. And like ORbert said, a lot of it is simply that the networks weren't interested in GR's portrayal of some foreign utopia. Part of the appeal of TOS is that those are people like us rummaging about the galaxy, and while they're certainly flawed they're people you can relate to and admire. While I'd certainly love to live in the TNG universe, I think I'd be miserable with the company and I doubt I'd be very welcome.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 30, 2015, 07:20:36 PM
What's interesting to me, I totally get the "normal guys rummaging the universe" thing, and in fact TOS much more reflected a likely assembly of characters than TNG. If I look at my daily workplace, TOS comes a lot closer than TNG.
At the same time, maybe because I didn't grow up with it, Kirk and Bones never felt like believable officers. Bones was just a naysayer, and Kirk had zero leader qualities. He just stuck his dick into whatever alien orifice was available in a given episode, and the rest of the time he yelled at people and inanimate objects.
Seriously, as bizarre as it sounds, out of the three, Spock was the most believable character.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 30, 2015, 07:34:52 PM
The lack of apparent leadership is interesting. However, I think there were differing styles of leadership required in the two era. You mentioned Kirk poking everything he could, and the first thing I thought was that it was more often than not necessary because something or another was trying to kill them. The 2.0 people spent plenty of time solving mysteries and gallivanting around in holodecks. It's pretty easy to offer guidance, mediate, encourage and whatever when the dramatic focus is whether or not Geordi gets to pork the cute scientist. Seems just about every situation Kirk gets into is life and death from the get go. Somebody's trying to kill him, the ship or start a war. In that situation yelling at people to do their jobs (and occasionally banging the enemies girlfriend) are required skillsets. Put another way, Kirk and his guys were the crew of a naval ship operating as military. Picard and his people are the American embassy in Beijing. Occasionally things will get hairy, but for the most part it's a damned nice gig.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 30, 2015, 09:20:13 PM
I don't know. To me, when I watch any of those shows, in the back of my mind I imagine the daily grind. Kirk's bridge just never looked like it could function more than a day. It  had an egocentric at the top, bimbo servants, and people constantly dying.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 31, 2015, 05:24:52 AM
Sounds like my office.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2015, 05:33:59 AM
I always wondered how Data would fare as Captain since he'd have no human emotions to help/hinder him.


All his decisions would be computational rather than instinct or subterfuge.


I don't think Data would be able to pull off " The Corbomite Manoeuvre " as i'm pretty sure we've never seen Data use trickery unless under control from some

outside force.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 31, 2015, 07:43:33 AM
Err, you are aware that there is a whole episode about Data commanding his own ship, and the problems associated with it, right?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2015, 07:58:11 AM
Err, you are aware that there is a whole episode about Data commanding his own ship, and the problems associated with it, right?

Which episode ? Obviously I forgot your majesty. 

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on January 31, 2015, 07:59:01 AM
Redemption. Excellent episode too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2015, 08:04:22 AM
:). Thanks. I'll watch it later.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 31, 2015, 01:07:44 PM
He also assumes control after the deaths of Picard and Riker in Gambit. Worf is his XO and even a bigger asshole than that Hobson fellow. He had it better there, though, since the crew already knew him.

His skills and ability as a commander are one of the reasons I thought Captain Jelico was underutilized. It was clear both he and Worf appreciated the increase in discipline. Would have been nice to see Jelico stick around a few episodes with Data assuming more command responsibility.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on January 31, 2015, 01:24:38 PM
If "Redemption" is the episode I'm thinking of, I remember the discussions when it first aired (Usenet tng group).  Data gives the order to fire, and there is hesitation, so he turns and says "Fire!" and you look at his face and he's pissed.  This is a command, do it you little turd!

People were freaking out because Data was showing emotion, and, well... he's Data.  But that's just it; he was "showing" emotion.  He didn't feel it, he was not genuinely angry.  He simply calculated that under the circumstances, a more forceful approach was needed, and sitting there calmly giving the order to fire obviously wasn't cutting it.  So he amped up the emotion, got a mean look on his face, and said "Fire!"  And it got the reaction he needed.

Data was good in a command position precisely because he acted and reacted without emotion.

Also, yeah, Jellico was cool.  He came across as a dick at first, but it was simply his no-nonsense approach in sharp contrast to Picard's laid-back style.  Picard had earned his crew's respect.  Jellico didn't have that going for him, so he went with the direct approach, and by the end of the episode we understand that and see the logic in it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 31, 2015, 04:05:43 PM
I think Data would be able to copy Picard or Riker shouting if he needed to. It wouldn't be genuine emotion - more of a facsimile.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on January 31, 2015, 10:42:00 PM
I also have heard people complaining about his show of emotion in that scene. They're forgetting that he was in the holo deck in different episodes throughout the series working on acting so that he could better understand humanity. That scene was a huge moment in the development of his character, and it didn't surprise me in the least.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2015, 07:47:42 PM
(https://showbizgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Screen-Shot-2013-09-13-at-17.50.22.png)

Guess who.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 03, 2015, 08:07:11 PM
Ironic that she had to go on immediately following Jeri Ryan wearing this:
(https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4080/4875869013_56f8307eb3.jpg)

Woman just can't catch a break.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2015, 08:23:50 PM
Ooh, that's brutal.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 03, 2015, 08:33:37 PM
In all fairness the woman retired from acting and went into Mom mode, so public appearance isn't a huge concern. Furthermore, she never does conventions and also left the show early so she doesn't have the same camaraderie with the rest of the cast. There are plenty of pictures from that convention and she looks like she hates being there. Add to that she probably only gets asked one question at any convention she goes to, which is "uh. . . so were you and Neelix supposed to be getting it on?"

Still, she must constantly feel like she's being stalked by a Jeri Ryan terminator.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on February 03, 2015, 08:55:22 PM
I would ask her about the hairdo. Like, whoever thought those were a good idea.
There's one episode where she is Kes Zimmerman and they gave her straight hair for that role, and goddamn she gets a solid +1 on the 0-10 scale.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 03, 2015, 09:57:21 PM
I cannot for the life of me tell who that first pic is of. By that last post I assume it's Kes? Damn. She turned into a blob.

She looked better once they gave her the longer hair later on. They just chose an unfortunate episode to make her hair a foot longer, since it was at the end of a screwy time travel episode (one of the best episodes), and at the end I thought her hair was a sign that the timeline was still supposed to be messed up.

Jeri Ryan still looks good.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 21, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Damn picked two random TNG episodes to watch and they're both "lurve" heavy episodes  ::)

Oh well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on February 21, 2015, 05:10:39 PM
Kinda fun to think about, to rank TNG characters by the quality of their relationship episodes:

Picard is probably top for me. Vash, Crusher, his wife in The Inner Light... all good episodes.
Riker I guess was never meant to be taken seriously in his escapades. The only serious attempt I can think of (the androgynous race) was a stinker though.
Data: Yeaaah. The episode where he is the rebound guy for that ensign is like nails on a chalkboard.
Geordi, he should have just given up. Even though, I guess he kinda personified the standard Trekkie.
Wesley, the one I can think of (The Game) is actually not too bad.
Worf's love affairs were kinda weird overall. Keylar, then Troi, dunno, it kinda was all over the place.
Crusher, two words: Sub Rosa. Nothing can overcome that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on February 21, 2015, 05:12:48 PM
Worf got Dax.

He wins.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on February 21, 2015, 05:15:17 PM
Not on TNG he didn't  ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 21, 2015, 05:34:46 PM
He was definitely going to bang that jailbait Klingon chick until he noticed the ears. And Riker also had Minuet, which definitely qualifies. There was also the on/off thing with Troi, although I guess that was more movie related. Crusher had some other equally terrible episodes where she was hot for some alien patient and a Trill.

I guess the moral of the story is that anytime TNG tried to do romance it always sucked balls.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on February 21, 2015, 05:45:27 PM
Not on TNG he didn't  ;D
You only specified TNG characters not that it had to happen on TNG. ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on February 21, 2015, 08:04:40 PM
You guys are all just cynics..   :angel: :loser: :P

I loved most of the romance episodes.  Except maybe the one with that DAHM CAHNDLE!!   :rollin   And even that one is good for laughs...

And Geordi got the hottest woman in the entire ST universe...even though it was only her simulation and not the real thing.   Leah Brahms   :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on February 21, 2015, 08:19:22 PM
Really? You like her? Didn't do much for me.
Whereas, Picard scoring on Famke Jannsen, dang.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 21, 2015, 08:24:54 PM
Wesley didn't get to groove on her, but Ensign Lefler was a young Ashley Judd, and she was adorable.

Data was rebound guy for Lt. D'Sora, played by Michele Scarabelli, who I always thought was really pretty.

Leah Brahms was a babe, but her character turned out to be a real bitch, and that kinda ruined her for me.

I completely forgot about Famke as Kamala.  That's a serious contender for winner right there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PetFish on February 22, 2015, 02:37:01 AM
And Geordi got the hottest woman in the entire ST universe...even though it was only her simulation and not the real thing.   Leah Brahms   :hat

So hot... want to touch the hiney.  Apparently, she almost got to be Janeway.

(https://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/871/2490SusanGibney01.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 22, 2015, 06:58:57 AM
She was also up for the part of 7 of 9.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on February 22, 2015, 09:25:14 AM
Personally don't like that pic as well.    It's weird, I've looked up several pictures of her, and I think she's just hotter in that role for some reason.

Maybe it was the "Dr Quinne Medicine Woman" hair and the fake beauty mark...   :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 22, 2015, 09:38:58 AM
Wesley might not have, but Wil Wheaton is pretty up front that he sure as hell did.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 22, 2015, 11:57:34 AM
Lucky bastard.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on February 22, 2015, 01:41:56 PM
Personally don't like that pic as well.    It's weird, I've looked up several pictures of her, and I think she's just hotter in that role for some reason.

Maybe it was the "Dr Quinne Medicine Woman" hair and the fake beauty mark...   :lol

Wtf dude :lol
I was gonna reply that the pic above makes her look way hotter than in the episode. Yeah, you must have a thing for that Victorian-style woman :D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on February 23, 2015, 05:10:05 AM
Definitely Worf. And definitely not Worf. His par'Mach'kai tend to die much too soon.
K'Ehleyr and Jadzia... still missing both of them. :(
Awesome characters.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 23, 2015, 11:14:12 AM
Definitely Worf. And definitely not Worf. His par'Mach'kai tend to die much too soon.
Except for the one who needed to die in season 1.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on February 23, 2015, 11:31:54 AM
Personally don't like that pic as well.    It's weird, I've looked up several pictures of her, and I think she's just hotter in that role for some reason.

Maybe it was the "Dr Quinne Medicine Woman" hair and the fake beauty mark...   :lol

Wtf dude :lol
I was gonna reply that the pic above makes her look way hotter than in the episode. Yeah, you must have a thing for that Victorian-style woman :D

Not Victorian style woman per se.   I *DO* absolutely have a thing for LONG HAIR.  (Crystal Gayle has the greatest hair in the universe)  This has been disappointing in the ST universe, because I've often become disappointed in discovering that most of the actresses are wearing a hairpiece to give them more hair.   Marina Sirtis did this often.   Really a bummer because I LOVE it when she has the really long hair in the episodes, but it's not real.

The Victorian hairstyle (that big poofy thing) is usually the result of having *really long hair* that you have to put up.       Leah Brahms had really long hair.   Probably not real though...bummer. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on February 23, 2015, 02:38:50 PM
jammindude, I forbid you from hanging around any horse stalls.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on February 23, 2015, 03:49:53 PM
 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on February 23, 2015, 03:53:21 PM
Mrs. Dude:

(https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/jammindude/IMG_0031_zpsea48d5fb.jpg~original)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 01, 2015, 04:54:19 PM
Guess the TOS episode by the Japanese title:

https://www.sporcle.com/games/JimmyJames/japanese_star_trek (https://Mystery of the Universe: Eat the Anger!)

I got 17/25. Knew another but ran out of time typing it in (longest episode title ever!). Another was the easiest one of the lot (and one of my favorites), but the title slipped my mind. Some of the others just don't make any damn sense.

There's also one of these for TNG episodes, but I couldn't name most of those things in English.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 05, 2015, 11:06:24 PM
Now Harve Bennett joins Nimoy. tbh, I had it in my mind he'd already passed. I hope the rule of 3's doesn't have a vendetta against Trek this time.

https://www.startrek.com/article/remembering-harve-bennett-1930-2015
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 06, 2015, 07:09:47 AM
The one positive about Nimoy's passing is that they probably won't try to write an X Men style old Kirk and Spock vs Young Kirk and Spock team up.


I don't know why anyone would want 83 year old Bill Shatner as Kirk.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 06, 2015, 08:13:44 AM
The one positive about Nimoy's passing is that they probably won't try to write an X Men style old Kirk and Spock vs Young Kirk and Spock team up.


I don't know why anyone would want 83 year old Bill Shatner as Kirk.

Because there needs to be at least something legitimate Star Trek in the next movie. :neverusethis:

I wish that STXI was Nimoy/Spock's last appearance. It would have been a nice passing the torch moment, and a better finish for the character than Into Darkness.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next movie mentions Spock Prime dying.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 06, 2015, 09:02:07 AM
Because there needs to be at least something legitimate Star Trek in the next movie. :neverusethis:

I wish that STXI was Nimoy/Spock's last appearance. It would have been a nice passing the torch moment, and a better finish for the character than Into Darkness.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next movie mentions Spock Prime dying.
I'm surprised you're even giving any thought to the next movie. Hell, even Kowtowboy thinks it's gonna suck.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 13, 2015, 06:30:47 PM
You know, I always thought that Star Trek missed a chance to *not* place Starfleet Headquarters in the US. I think some currently obscure place like, say, Godthab, would have been cool.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 14, 2015, 12:27:57 AM
One of many US-centric ideas in the Star Trek universe. When was the first time they mentioned the location of Starfleet? Was TMP the first time, or was it established in TOS? I can't say it surprises me that an American show tries to appeal more to Americans, but it would be nice to see an attempt to be more global.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 14, 2015, 09:34:52 AM
One of many US-centric ideas in the Star Trek universe. When was the first time they mentioned the location of Starfleet? Was TMP the first time, or was it established in TOS? I can't say it surprises me that an American show tries to appeal more to Americans, but it would be nice to see an attempt to be more global.
I was thinking it was TWoK. Not sure if they mention it in TMP.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 14, 2015, 09:45:12 AM
One of many US-centric ideas in the Star Trek universe. When was the first time they mentioned the location of Starfleet? Was TMP the first time, or was it established in TOS? I can't say it surprises me that an American show tries to appeal more to Americans, but it would be nice to see an attempt to be more global.
I was thinking it was TWoK. Not sure if they mention it in TMP.

There's that shot in TMP of Kirk taking the shuttle right past the Golden Gate bridge to Starfleet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 14, 2015, 07:19:34 PM
Still find the blocking on TNG hilarious. How everyone on the bridge will be in shot whatever the angle.

Sometimes a camera angle will change and someone will just nonchalantly step into shot  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 15, 2015, 08:01:41 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/12/its-time-for-star-trek-to-return-to-the-small-screen/383794/

I say, we need a "Star Trek: Wesley Crusher". You know, a series about his angsty Academy years. They could bring back Nick Locarno!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 15, 2015, 08:29:36 PM
Or a series set on an "Enterprise"  200 years since Picard.


Enterprise NCC - 1701 - X


Maybe The Enterprise J as featured in that one episode oF " Enterprise " ?




(https://api.ning.com/files/navG*PuqyZGlIHr4I4Db5V4ed5b0xeVOCAEEsPiVoZmwrbFW7KdeTANBrfyGoOeJ1h3zRvpXnjj4WqgQq*fjAYtV2k0RFvVmu5W96*-iaOU_/U.S.S.EnterpriseN.C.C.1701J2.jpg?width=655&height=331)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 15, 2015, 08:37:33 PM
I like the "200 yeares since Picard" idea. But, the twist is than Picard is still the captain! They uploaded his brain patterns into Data, who now lives as aSpock/Bones hybrid of two personalities.
See, we already have the first episode down. Something terrible happens to Picard, and he's on the verge of death. Data struggles with the realization that he can't feel any emotions regarding this, and at the end he merges Picard's brain with his, thus saving Picard, and at the same time understands emotions.
Side plot: Wesley falls into an Agony Booth. Nobody helps.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 16, 2015, 01:47:35 AM
I like the "200 yeares since Picard" idea. But, the twist is than Picard is still the captain! They uploaded his brain patterns into Data, who now lives as aSpock/Bones hybrid of two personalities.
See, we already have the first episode down. Something terrible happens to Picard, and he's on the verge of death. Data struggles with the realization that he can't feel any emotions regarding this, and at the end he merges Picard's brain with his, thus saving Picard, and at the same time understands emotions.
Side plot: Wesley falls into an Agony Booth. Nobody helps.

And for the whole series, Brent Spiner does his Patrick Stewart voice.

But seriously, there needs to be a new Trek series, with someone in charge who has nothing at all to do with the movies. TV is in desperate need of good scifi, and what better than Star Trek?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 16, 2015, 06:26:41 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 16, 2015, 06:30:00 AM
They'd have to explain how Data is now flabby and old looking :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 16, 2015, 08:21:44 AM
I like the "200 yeares since Picard" idea. But, the twist is than Picard is still the captain! They uploaded his brain patterns into Data, who now lives as aSpock/Bones hybrid of two personalities.
See, we already have the first episode down. Something terrible happens to Picard, and he's on the verge of death. Data struggles with the realization that he can't feel any emotions regarding this, and at the end he merges Picard's brain with his, thus saving Picard, and at the same time understands emotions.
Side plot: Wesley falls into an Agony Booth. Nobody helps.
Yeah, every ship has a holographic Picard on the bridge now. "Well, lieutenant, I'm stumped. Better activate the EPH."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 16, 2015, 08:24:02 AM
I like the "200 yeares since Picard" idea. But, the twist is than Picard is still the captain! They uploaded his brain patterns into Data, who now lives as aSpock/Bones hybrid of two personalities.
See, we already have the first episode down. Something terrible happens to Picard, and he's on the verge of death. Data struggles with the realization that he can't feel any emotions regarding this, and at the end he merges Picard's brain with his, thus saving Picard, and at the same time understands emotions.
Side plot: Wesley falls into an Agony Booth. Nobody helps.
Yeah, every ship has a holographic Picard on the bridge now. "Well, lieutenant, I'm stumped. Better activate the EPH."

This show is basically writing itself! Why is nobody on this yet?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 16, 2015, 08:27:58 AM
Star Trek is in need of more beards.  Time to clone Ryker.  Space bitches love beards.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 16, 2015, 08:47:43 AM
This is fantastic.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 16, 2015, 09:29:18 AM
The side plot will become a running gag in the series, like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vjrIj5fEX0
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 21, 2015, 04:23:29 PM
https://www.popsci.com/sxsw-2015-star-trek-tricorder-real-and-will-diagnose-you-soon

I wasn't aware there was a "Tricorder Prize" :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 21, 2015, 05:37:28 PM
It must just be the nerdy places I hang around, because I've been hearing about the tricorder prize constantly for years now. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 21, 2015, 06:17:39 PM
I hadn't heard about the "prize" but I have seen an article or two about some cool new diagnostic devices that are basically like tricorders and are being called that, just because so many people already know the word.  One of them specifically mentioned that if you think about it, "tricorder" doesn't make much sense as an actual word (since it was made up in the first place), but one thing they thought was important was that the device be able to perform at least three different vital diagnostics, otherwise you can't call it "tri" anything.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 21, 2015, 06:24:43 PM
Well it should be exactly three functions, otherwise you'd either call it by *that* number, or simply call it a multicorder. But yeah, it doesn't make sense. It just creates a buzz due to name recognition and association, just like how one day we'll have something called a holodeck.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 21, 2015, 07:17:49 PM
If they ever invent the transporter - there is absolutely 0% chance of me ever using one !

It might be like The Prestige - where it doesn't teleport you across space - it duplicates you and destroys the old one.

No thanks ! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 21, 2015, 08:50:03 PM
I'd feel exactly the same. They have actually mentioned that a couple of times in the show too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Accelerando on March 24, 2015, 04:10:57 AM
Just watched Star Trek: Nemesis...the only Star Trek movie I haven't seen, but since Leonard Nimoy's passing, I've been rewatching all the Star Trek flicks.

Ugh. I heard it was bad, but....that was really bad. TNG crew deserved a better farewell.

But in light of that movie, if somehow in the new movies they manage to get Picard in the alternate universe timeline with some sort of time traveling plot, we know that Tom Hardy could still play a young Picard  :laugh:

Who would play Data, Riker, and Worf in that alternate timeline?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 24, 2015, 12:46:23 PM
Well, alternate timeline wouldn't necessarily have to be in the TNG "present", right? They could use the original actors, just place it slightly in TNG's future. The only one who couldn't pull it off is Data, but he's dead anyway after Nemesis.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 24, 2015, 05:12:59 PM
Watching VOY "Fury" right now, the one where Kes returns. Man, Jennifer Lien's performance is highschool theater level. Awful.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 24, 2015, 05:31:57 PM
Oh man, I remember that one.  It was bad.  When it first aired, one of the reviewers cited how Lt. Yar from TNG got a really crappy sendoff (drowned in a living pool of black muck) but they brought her back and gave her a great redemption.  Voyager did the opposite by giving Kes a good sendoff, then ruining it by bringing her back and giving her a crappy epilogue.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 24, 2015, 09:14:37 PM
Also have to say, while Denise Crosby looked totally fine in her returns (and yeah, all her returns were excellent), you could tell the years on Lien already. That is, the "Kes in the past" obviously :lol
But what really struck me was the showdown scene with Janeway. She was supposed to deliver this passionate rationale for her actions, but she stood there wooden with arms flailing like a highschool student at his local theater production.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 24, 2015, 09:38:11 PM
A big part of it was makeup, though.  Remember that the Ocampa only lived a few years, and Kes had been gone for a while.  She was like 20 or 30 earth years older already, something like that.  I don't remember exactly, but I'm sure that was the idea.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 26, 2015, 04:41:53 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about the caked-on makeup they used for "end of her life Kes". I'm talking about when she travels back to the past to change history; in that time she's supposed to be normal Kes, but you can tell the actress has aged a lot.

I think to some degree it's the "stay in shape" clause actors have in their contract. The regulars took care of themselves, but Jennifer Lien probably had not acted in a while when she got written into the episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 26, 2015, 05:02:29 PM
Yeah, Jennifer (unfortunately) never really took off as an actress, and didn't do much else.  She did some voice work, but only on one show after she left Voyager, a bit part in a Corbin Bernsen movie that no one's ever heard of, then she retired.  Too bad.  I thought she was really cute.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 26, 2015, 05:05:58 PM
Yeah, like I mentioned when somebody posted that pic of her looking all frumpy at a convention, she quit acting and went into full-time mom mode. That said, I didn't really notice her looking bad until you pointed it out. Probably because I just never paid much attention to her at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 27, 2015, 04:51:39 AM
Apparently Idris Elba is being courted for the villain for the next ST film.  Early rumor is "Klingon."

I just hope they don't waste his talent on a generic bad guy.  But, you know.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 27, 2015, 05:03:35 AM
I don't know who he is, but I'd rather not see any Klingons in this movie, especially as a main villian. I was hoping for some exploration with a completely different type of villian, and the less that is said about JJ's "Klingons", the more hope I have of actually being able to watch this movie.

I also hope they don't waste him as a generic bad guy, but it would be sticking to the pattern of the past 3 films.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 27, 2015, 05:24:11 AM
Simon Pegg said the script is all about exploration and fun and "trying to steer it back towards the TV show".

But we'll see.


( insert Blob & Barto  rebuff here :P )
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 27, 2015, 05:30:12 AM
Nah, there's not much left to say that hasn't been said until we get more hard information, but I hope they actually stick to that this time. We got the same comments last time around at this point in the process, and then they went off and did a poor parody of TWOK instead.
When you're dealing with Hollywood, the intelligence gets bashed out by the people in charge of the money until you're left with an empty action movie for the masses.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 27, 2015, 08:16:00 AM
Yeah, as I've said, an exploration story won't sell popcorn nowadays. Especially now that they've set their standard with the first two.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 27, 2015, 09:55:06 AM
Yeah, it will be

1. Here we are exploring
2. Wait, something happened
3. Look it's another bad guy with plans for galactic domination
4. Lens flares/other visual effects & explosions
5. Kirk bangs an alien and the good guys win
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on March 27, 2015, 10:00:42 AM
Yeah, it will be

1. Here we are exploring
2. Wait, something happened
3. Look it's another bad guy with plans for galactic domination
4. Lens flares/other visual effects & explosions
5. Kirk bangs an alien and the good guys win

 :lol

Over/under of the time between #1 and #2 is what - 10 minutes?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 27, 2015, 10:01:27 AM
Yeah, probably.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 27, 2015, 10:13:03 AM
#2. I'd be a bit let down if nothing happened ::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 27, 2015, 10:30:38 AM
Yeah, it will be

1. Here we are exploring
2. Wait, something happened
3. Look it's another bad guy with plans for galactic domination
4. Lens flares/other visual effects & explosions
5. Kirk bangs an alien and the good guys win

Isn't that every Star Trek Movie? :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 27, 2015, 04:41:25 PM
https://trekcore.com/blog/2015/03/pegg-trek3-adventure-exploration/
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 27, 2015, 07:28:19 PM
I didn't know Pegg was co-writing it. That's what I get for missing staff meetings, I suppose.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 27, 2015, 07:58:02 PM
So now we have :

• Kurtzman & Orci OUT

• JJ Abrams OUT

• An actual Star Trek fan writing it.

 
We just need a better director. I hear the director of Tron Legacy and Oblivion is doing a Gran Turismo movie ...

WRONG WAY ROUND ! Get him to direct Star Trek and tell Justin Lin to fuck off to GT.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Accelerando on March 27, 2015, 09:39:22 PM
^^ Well, Disney just announced that the director for TRON: Legacy, Joseph Kosinski, is returning to direct TRON 3, which will start shooting later this year
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 28, 2015, 05:37:54 AM
Justin Lin isn't a horrible director.  If he gets good material to work with, he'll be fine.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 28, 2015, 06:20:47 AM
Justin Lin isn't a horrible director.  If he gets good material to work with, he'll be fine.

Exactly what i was thinking. He's done more than just F&F. He probably makes those films the way they are because that's the type of ilm they are and they call for a certain style.

If he's a big Trek fan it could be all gravy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 28, 2015, 09:31:29 AM
I think there's more to it than being a Trek fan, but we'll see. If the script is good, and it doesn't get mangled in filming and editing, it could turn out good.
I'm certainly more positive about Pegg writing it at this point than I was initially, I just hope his good intentions don't get put through the Hollywood grinder.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 28, 2015, 09:59:56 PM
I'm cautiously optimistic. It seems Pegg is aware of the shortcomings of the previous movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The Dark Master on March 29, 2015, 01:53:51 PM
Pegg writing is definitely good news.  Him and Karl Urban seem to be the two people most involved in the new Trek films that have the fullest understanding of what ST is really about.  Not that I really have a problem with flashy action and lensflare, but a story beyond "Bad guy with big, evil-looking spaceship wants revenge because reasons" would be nice.

As for Justin Lin, I have my doubts but I'll give it a chance.  Trek doesn't really seem like his forte but who knows, maybe he will surprise us.  I certainly agree Kosinski would be a much better choice, as I'm actually rather fond of both Tron:Legacy and Oblivion (even if T:L was basically a Tron-themed 2 hr Daft Punk music video with a cameo by The Dude), but at least having Pegg writing gives me hopes for the new film, regardless of the director.  As long as Lin knows how to make a movie and leaves the script in the hands of someone who knows Trek like Pegg, I think it would be a decent flick.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 29, 2015, 10:01:18 PM
I have no idea who Kosinski is, other than the hapless assistant of the Traveler. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 29, 2015, 10:04:11 PM
Which might actually make for an interestingly discussion: If the new movie *had* to be a continuation of an existing episode (TOS, TNG, VOY, anything goes), which would it be?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 29, 2015, 10:24:21 PM
It can't really be a continuation given that it's a new universe, but if you mean based on an episode, I could have seen them using the Borg. A simple enough idea to give them free rein. I've also thought that the mirror universe would be a badass idea. There are plenty of possibilities there.





Or Spock's Brain. Still better than Into Darkness.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 29, 2015, 11:08:56 PM
I would have bet money on the Borg until I realized that Pegg was writing it. Don't think his inclination would be to something that obvious. However, despite being slightly more optimistic because of the writing, my concerns about the studio still prevail. I'm not sure they'd produce the script a real ST fan would want to write.

And how 'bout:

Amok Time II: Ston's Revenge
This time it's logical

A Taste of Armageddon: The Main Course
After Enterprise leaves war breaks back out with conventional weapons (finally killing the Popping Jay Fox). After a couple of weeks the Emenians and the Vindakarins realize that it's Kirk and the Federation that screwed them. They raise havoc across the Federation until Kirk plots and schemes a way to pit them back against each other. 

Another Piece of the Action

Kracko and Oxmyx meet the Orions. The rest writes itself.

Hell, that last one could actually work pretty easily. They never even have to mention Kirk's interference if they don't want to. The Horizon left THE BOOK and some other federation yahoo clumsily gave them a communicator, and the next thing you know they're operating a mafia across 18 systems.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 29, 2015, 11:15:00 PM
Star Trek: Arena

Because if you're going to write yet another movie with a big bad guy, you may as well make him a giant lizard man.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Accelerando on March 30, 2015, 04:29:01 PM
According to Simon Pegg, if Idris Elba was casted, he won't be playing a Klingon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ibnbGP-hG4


Right...just like how Cumberbatch wasn't Khan, and how no one saw that a million miles away  :yeahright


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 30, 2015, 04:58:23 PM
They'll cast him as a red shirt and the joke will be on us.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 31, 2015, 07:58:05 AM
They'll cast him as a red shirt and the joke will be on us.
Most badass redshirt ever.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on March 31, 2015, 04:45:16 PM
They should make a movie with an incredible lineup of top actors, and they all die as redshirts in the opening scene :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 04, 2015, 09:42:26 AM
https://youtu.be/PItJHqRGxow

Wut
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 04, 2015, 03:37:18 PM
They should make a movie with an incredible lineup of top actors, and they all die as redshirts in the opening scene :lol

Just like the TV show with Leslie Nielsen, Police Squad.  The killed every special guest for every episode. :lol  Don't miss this link.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sCBj7z7Afs

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 06, 2015, 10:40:47 AM
They should make a movie with an incredible lineup of top actors, and they all die as redshirts in the opening scene :lol

Just like the TV show with Leslie Nielsen, Police Squad.  The killed every special guest for every episode. :lol  Don't miss this link.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sCBj7z7Afs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sCBj7z7Afs)
Don't recall that they did that. Honestly, though, never cared much for the show.

Interesting side-bit: the reason Leslie Nielson was so good at that was that he had absolutely no sense of humor whatsoever. The ZAZ guys were pretty clear that he never got anything and never understood what they were trying to do, which is what made him so perfect for the part.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 06, 2015, 11:22:29 AM
Yep, Leslie Nielson's characters were always the straight guy, completely unaware of his own cluelessness and the insanity around him, much of which was caused by himself.  That's why it worked.

Same with Peter Graves.  I remember seeing an interview with Peter Graves about Captain Oveur from "Airplane!" and how first of all, he had no idea why they would want him to be in a comedy, since he definitely was not known for his comedic chops.  One of his friends, a fellow actor (I forget who), told him that the secret to comedy is that the characters don't know they're in a comedy.  You play it completely straight, and that's what makes it funny.  It made no sense to him, but he decided to at least check out the script.  What?!  An airline pilot asking a little boy about Turkish prisons and gladiator movies?  People would think he's some kind of homosexual pedophile.  But his friend told him that that's what's so funny.  Nobody could ever imagine Jim Phelps saying that, so it's perfect.  So Graves did it, and still had no idea why it was so damned funny, but people loved it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 06, 2015, 11:25:44 AM
Dear Lord.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 06, 2015, 12:11:39 PM
They should make a movie with an incredible lineup of top actors, and they all die as redshirts in the opening scene :lol

Just like the TV show with Leslie Nielsen, Police Squad.  The killed every special guest for every episode. :lol  Don't miss this link.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sCBj7z7Afs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sCBj7z7Afs)
Don't recall that they did that. Honestly, though, never cared much for the show.

Interesting side-bit: the reason Leslie Nielson was so good at that was that he had absolutely no sense of humor whatsoever. The ZAZ guys were pretty clear that he never got anything and never understood what they were trying to do, which is what made him so perfect for the part.

I was only 6 episodes but the Shatner one always stuck out for his overacting of course.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 06, 2015, 02:14:52 PM
Yep, Leslie Nielson's characters were always the straight guy, completely unaware of his own cluelessness and the insanity around him, much of which was caused by himself.  That's why it worked.

Same with Peter Graves.  I remember seeing an interview with Peter Graves about Captain Oveur from "Airplane!" and how first of all, he had no idea why they would want him to be in a comedy, since he definitely was not known for his comedic chops.  One of his friends, a fellow actor (I forget who), told him that the secret to comedy is that the characters don't know they're in a comedy.  You play it completely straight, and that's what makes it funny.  It made no sense to him, but he decided to at least check out the script.  What?!  An airline pilot asking a little boy about Turkish prisons and gladiator movies?  People would think he's some kind of homosexual pedophile.  But his friend told him that that's what's so funny.  Nobody could ever imagine Jim Phelps saying that, so it's perfect.  So Graves did it, and still had no idea why it was so damned funny, but people loved it.
Graves figured it out eventually, as did Lloyd Bridges. According to ZAZ it was Robert Stack who straightened them out. "Guys, we're the joke here." After that they both got it and ran with it. Stack got it all along and thought the whole thing was awesome.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 06, 2015, 02:22:07 PM
It's not new or anything, but I recently read William Shatner's book Shatner Rules, and I've gotta say it was hilarious.  I recommend it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 06, 2015, 02:37:24 PM
I've loved every book by Shatner I've read.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 06, 2015, 03:57:11 PM
Yep, Leslie Nielson's characters were always the straight guy, completely unaware of his own cluelessness and the insanity around him, much of which was caused by himself.  That's why it worked.

Same with Peter Graves.  I remember seeing an interview with Peter Graves about Captain Oveur from "Airplane!" and how first of all, he had no idea why they would want him to be in a comedy, since he definitely was not known for his comedic chops.  One of his friends, a fellow actor (I forget who), told him that the secret to comedy is that the characters don't know they're in a comedy.  You play it completely straight, and that's what makes it funny.  It made no sense to him, but he decided to at least check out the script.  What?!  An airline pilot asking a little boy about Turkish prisons and gladiator movies?  People would think he's some kind of homosexual pedophile.  But his friend told him that that's what's so funny.  Nobody could ever imagine Jim Phelps saying that, so it's perfect.  So Graves did it, and still had no idea why it was so damned funny, but people loved it.
Graves figured it out eventually, as did Lloyd Bridges. According to ZAZ it was Robert Stack who straightened them out. "Guys, we're the joke here." After that they both got it and ran with it. Stack got it all along and thought the whole thing was awesome.

I can see that.  Robert Stack also played a straight guy, but compared to the other guys, he seemed a bit more hip, just a bit cooler and more likely to see the bigger picture.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on April 07, 2015, 12:47:09 AM
https://boomstickcomics.com/2015/04/star-trek-series-comes-back-to-cbs-with-wil-wheaton/

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 07, 2015, 01:03:44 AM
I knew what date that was posted before I even clicked it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on April 07, 2015, 01:51:43 AM
I knew what date that was posted before I even clicked it.

And I didn't even realize it. I thought that it might have been a false story/rumor, but I didn't realize it was an April Fool's joke. I apologize. If you guys want me to delete it, just say so.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 08, 2015, 06:15:40 PM
Man, seeing Rene Aubergenois in the full Odo makeup while talking in his normal voice is 18 kinds of incongruous. We're all used to him be the grizzled character now, but back then he looked a bit softer and actually fits the completely unmenacing voice of RA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu9d2e9Pj6Y
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 08, 2015, 06:46:38 PM
I'm not used to hearing him talk like that in any role. :lol
I'm rewatching Boston Legal, and he's basically human Odo in that. And in Warehouse 13 he was wacky gruff instead of angry gruff. In Stargate he was desperate gruff. As Pepe Le Pew he was French gruff. There's a bit of a pattern here.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 09, 2015, 07:20:30 AM
How about Benson? :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 09, 2015, 07:39:59 AM
How about Benson? :lol
Yeah, that's when I first encountered him.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 09, 2015, 07:48:27 AM
Never even heard of it, but if it's pre-DS9, it doesn't count. :blob:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 09, 2015, 08:00:38 AM
Never even heard of it, but if it's pre-DS9, it doesn't count. :blob:

1/2 sitcom.  I bet you'd like it Blob.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 09, 2015, 08:01:41 AM
Early '80s sitcom. Sorry king, that sounds awful. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 09, 2015, 08:20:18 AM
Early '80s sitcom. Sorry king, that sounds awful. :lol

Aren't you a Golden Girls fan? :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 09, 2015, 08:21:01 AM
Loved Soap. Hated Benson (the show, not the character). Although to be honest, Saunders was probably a better character. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 09, 2015, 08:21:36 AM
Hey, I liked Benson at the time, but I sincerely doubt it will have aged very well.  Much like, well, most other early 80s sitcoms.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 09, 2015, 08:35:45 AM
Early '80s sitcom. Sorry king, that sounds awful. :lol

Aren't you a Golden Girls fan? :lol

Yes, but that's a rare exception. I mean, Betty White and Bea Arthur. You can't compete with that! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 09, 2015, 08:53:58 PM
He plays Colonel West in Star Trek VI. Always weird to see him in that role.

Watched the 1st season TNG "The Big Goodbye" earlier. Holy crap, at that point they were still going for the Crusher-Picard love angle. I wonder whether them dropping that arc caused them to drop Crusher altogether at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 09, 2015, 09:12:26 PM
I think they just dumped her to bring in somebody with some personality. It seems after that they realized that Pullaski had no chemistry whatsoever with the rest of the characters (since none of them had any personality at all) and went back to Crusher. As for the love interest bit, I'm sure they just decided early on it'd be a terribly dumb thing to do, particularly since sexual tension is often better than romance.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 09, 2015, 09:23:40 PM
I thought McFadden left, rather than being fired? Either way, I'm glad they brought her back. Pulaski is like the dump on top of what was already the worst season of the show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 10, 2015, 04:47:59 AM
Crew visits alien planet.

Troi : I sense an alien presence !

Well yeah. It's an alien planet. ANY presence would be an alien presence. :lol


Troi is such a bad character.

Guinan was the real counsellor on board. And much better written / acted.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 10, 2015, 06:03:15 AM
I sense they're hiding something.
I sense pain.
I feel a presence of some kind.

If I was Picard, I couldn't help but think "this would be much more useful if you were a real Betazoid". :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 10, 2015, 06:35:35 AM
I sense they're hiding something.
I sense pain.
I feel a presence of some kind.

If I was Picard, I couldn't help but think "this would be much more useful if you were a real Betazoid". :lol

I couldn't stand her the first season.  Thankfully they flushed her character.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 10, 2015, 07:05:24 AM
They should have flushed her out an airlock :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 10, 2015, 07:18:14 AM
 :lol

Her character was much better later on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 13, 2015, 09:31:06 PM
In the first few seasons she was hardly more than "Captain Obvious having orgasms on the bridge", yeah.

Overall, I think TNG struggled with their female characters, and I'm not certain why. They did so well with Major Kira and Dax in DS9. Janeway and Torres were okish. T'Pal and Hoshi were pretty colorless again.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 13, 2015, 09:46:36 PM
In Enterprise's case, I don't think it was a problem with female characters so much as a problem with all characters in general. :lol

McFadden, Sirtis, and Crosby have all expressed frustration with how under-utilized their characters were, at least in the earlier seasons, so there was an issue somewhere.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 13, 2015, 10:10:38 PM
In the first few seasons she was hardly more than "Captain Obvious having orgasms on the bridge", yeah.

Overall, I think TNG struggled with their female characters, and I'm not certain why. They did so well with Major Kira and Dax in DS9. Janeway and Torres were okish. T'Pal and Hoshi were pretty colorless again.
Did they really struggle more with the ladies then the gent? Seems to me that all of the characters were essentially the same person, so it was merely their job descriptions that would make them more or less interesting. Eventually all of the characters got flushed out, at least within the confines of Roddenberry's twisted utopia, but that was necessary for all of them.

And Dax was actually quite different in the first season than the subsequent ones. Everybody associated with DS9 and TF herself will tell you that there was a marked change. She was the quiet nerdy type for the first year, followed by her becoming the wild heart afterward. I suspect Blood Oath was the turning point. She was completely unsure about whether or not to participate in the plot. The Dax from season 3 would have done it on her own gleefully.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 19, 2015, 08:37:53 PM
Random comment: Given the amount of aggression from the Ferengi in TNG, it never made much sense that they weren't at open war with them. The Ferengi in question always claimed to not be involved with the Ferengi Alliance, but that was always a bogus plot device.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 21, 2015, 03:00:03 PM
(https://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzA0LzE4LzQ4L2pud3k4NzAuYjcwMjkuanBnCnAJdGh1bWIJOTUweDUzNCMKZQlqcGc/68c6a5b9/7dc/jnwy870.jpg)

ISS astronaut takes the most epic 'Star Trek' selfie ever (https://mashable.com/2015/04/18/iss-star-trek-selfie/)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 21, 2015, 03:06:40 PM
Or as people over the age of 16 call it..



...a "photo". ::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 21, 2015, 03:09:02 PM
Or as people over the age of 16 call it..



...a "photo". ::)

Nope, ever this old fart says "Selfie.  Crap.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 21, 2015, 03:13:32 PM
It is more specific than simply calling it a "photo", because it is a photograph taken with certain parameters in effect.  Not all photos are selfies.

Besides, that's just plain fucking cool that she's an astronaut taking a selfie, from space, in a Star Trek uniform.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 21, 2015, 03:46:44 PM
Before the word selfie existed - we called them photos.

What's worse is when someone takes a photo of a group of people and they still call it a selfie.

Nope. You didn't take it yourself.

And it's not just you in the pic.

::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on April 21, 2015, 03:49:23 PM
To me a selfie is a photo that you took of yourself. She seems to have done that, so it counts as a selfie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 21, 2015, 04:03:16 PM
Kotowboy isn't happy unless he's unhappy about something.  Then he's happy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 22, 2015, 07:02:45 AM
Kotowboy isn't happy unless he's unhappy about something.  Then he's happy.
That's certainly the way it comes across sometimes.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 04, 2015, 01:40:25 AM
RIP Grace Lee Whitney, aka Yeoman Rand.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on May 04, 2015, 07:12:03 AM
Bummer.  :(

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 19, 2015, 07:09:09 AM
https://io9.com/simon-pegg-worries-the-love-of-science-fiction-is-makin-1705420424

Hmmmm......
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 19, 2015, 07:35:33 AM
Dunce.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 19, 2015, 08:49:41 AM
Nice of him to bite the hand that has basically made him a hollywood actor...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on May 19, 2015, 10:03:27 AM
A pretty bizarre thing for him to say, for sure, but if you can get past the questionable word choices, there's a pretty good point hiding behind what he's saying.

What I got out of it is that all the really popular movies seem to be the spectacle-laden blockbusters.  Why aren't thought-provoking dramas and mysteries and other cerebral fare as popular as they once were?  I think the fact that he's currently in the Star Trek franchise doesn't make it worse for him to say that; it gives him a perspective that few others have.  In the article, it says that he was asked to rewrite the script he'd written for the next Star Trek movie because it was "too Star Trek-y".  In other words, the ratio of intelligent content to mindless action was too high.  When that happens to someone who clearly loves and cares about his craft, he has the right to complain about what's popular.  He's like a musician trying to get a bit proggy but being told by the label to just keep it simple and catchy so it will be more popular (that is, sell more).

For the record, I don't agree with him 100%.  There are still good, intelligent films being made, and some of them achieve a certain level of popularity.  But overall, he does have a point.  People live their lives and deal with shit every day, and they turn to movies for escapism.  They don't want "real life" shit; they want to get away from that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 19, 2015, 11:28:04 AM
https://io9.com/simon-pegg-worries-the-love-of-science-fiction-is-makin-1705420424

Hmmmm......

I find it ironic that Blob posted this.



:neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 19, 2015, 10:34:54 PM
https://mashable.com/2015/05/19/enterprise-building-star-trek/
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 20, 2015, 03:56:58 AM
I was thinking about "Yesterday's Enterprise" recently and how Guinan suddenly becomes aware of the time changes coincidentally at the moment Enterprise C comes thru the

rift. When in fact - Enterprise going through a rift would have affected time from that moment in the past onwards. :P

I'm sure there's a lot of problems with that episode paradoxically speaking but it's a good enough episode that you don't think about them til much later.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 20, 2015, 04:01:55 AM
I find there are consistency issues with most time travel stories, but I love the idea of time travel so much that I can excuse them (Back to the Future is my favourite movie series, and that's full of time travel problems).

I think it's pretty hard to define a set of rules for how time travel will work and then tell a story within those rules that works perfectly as a linear story, especially as part of a TV show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 20, 2015, 11:20:46 AM
https://mashable.com/2015/05/19/enterprise-building-star-trek/ (https://mashable.com/2015/05/19/enterprise-building-star-trek/)
The author of that article is seemingly unaware there were other ST series than TNG. That looks a helluva lot more like Voyager than any of the Enterprise variants.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 21, 2015, 05:59:59 AM
Every comment I've seen has said the same thing, although I'd say it looks much more like the Enterprise-E. Voyager didn't has that clear separation between saucer and secondary hull.
Either way, it's clearly a Trek ship, so that's pretty cool.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 21, 2015, 09:07:14 AM
Every comment I've seen has said the same thing, although I'd say it looks much more like the Enterprise-E. Voyager didn't has that clear separation between saucer and secondary hull.
Either way, it's clearly a Trek ship, so that's pretty cool.
Stubbier secondary hull, shorter nacelles in relation to the rest, and far more oblong primary hull. Sticking with Voy. Though I can see your E similarities (I didn't realize that its hull wasn't circular).

What's cool is that it's Chinese. They're way towards the bottom of the list of people who I'd see doing such a thing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 21, 2015, 09:09:42 AM
The secondary hull and saucer section are too distinct for me to think Voyager, and the perfect oval is a much closer match to the E-E than Voyager's spoon/egg shape. The bridge deck would match either ship pretty well, and the shorter nacelles do look more Voyager shaped, but the pylons are too thin and swept the wrong way for Voyager, but are a match to the Enterprise-E.
It also doesn't help that I spent 3-4 months researching and 3D modelling the USS Voyager, so I don't accept the vague similarity. :lol

Being Chinese, what are the odds it's actually a real starship just posing as a building?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 21, 2015, 09:21:16 AM
Hey, I think I hear a dingo eating your baby!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 21, 2015, 11:16:07 AM
Nah It's too late . I saw the dingo chucking the baby on the barbie.   :hat Bonzer Tucker Mate !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 21, 2015, 11:17:11 AM
Blob - an aside - have you heard of a jazz guitarist from Sydney called Carl Orr ?

just asking since he taught at the school where I did my degree :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 21, 2015, 10:30:27 PM
Blob - an aside - have you heard of a jazz guitarist from Sydney called Carl Orr ?

just asking since he taught at the school where I did my degree :)

Nope. And it's bonza, not bonzer, but aside from that, well done. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 22, 2015, 02:15:30 AM
Crikey ! :angry:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 28, 2015, 11:37:14 AM
My Grandad was watching TOS and I noticed the same score that they used again in TWOK - especially what sounds like a minor triad which slides down a semitone.

That eerie score when Chekov is telling Kirk about Khan after he has been rescued from the space station.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 01, 2015, 10:30:55 PM
I think I've seen all Alexander episodes now, and they all sucked.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 01, 2015, 10:32:46 PM
I can't remember a decent one. Even DS9 only managed a half decent episode with him in it. Some characters are just always downers.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on June 01, 2015, 10:33:32 PM
I've seen a few TNG episodes that made me giggle...but I don't know if I thought any of them "sucked"...not even the one with THAT DAHM CAHNDLE!!  :angel:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 02, 2015, 02:46:49 PM
I think I've seen all Alexander episodes now, and they all sucked.
A couple were good despite whoever played the role of Alexander. Reunion is excellent even though that kid tries his damnedest to ruin it. And the wedding episode was good, right up until the actual wedding itself. How on Qo'noS could the Klingons be so ridiculously cheesy. Still, the first 40 minutes are entertaining.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 02, 2015, 03:02:00 PM
Kids never come across well in Star Trek.

They always seem to pick the ugliest kids to appear on the show :lol

Especially on TOS.

And I vote for Jake Sisko to be more annoying than Wes Crusher.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 02, 2015, 07:48:56 PM
Really? Never got that. I thought his friendship with Nog was really cool.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 05, 2015, 08:12:38 AM
https://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/06/04/star-trek-3-director-justin-lin-promises-whole-new-worlds-and-species?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook


It sounds like at least the people *making* the next film know what they're doing. If it just turns into another mindless action'n'splosion fest then we know

to blame Paramount because it seems everyone from the writers to the director know what was wrong with the last movie

( even though I LOVE Into Darkness ) .

It's all positive news in my opinion and could be the best of the three.




Although I do wish JJ had stuck around to make all three. if they only make three of these prequel movies - it would have been nice to have had a JJ trilogy.

Now the third one will have a different feel to the other two. Say what you want about the writing but 2009 & Into Darkness both *looked* fantastic.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 05, 2015, 08:19:38 AM
I don't think that knowing what was wrong with the last movie means that the next one will be good.

They could make whole new mistakes that JJ never dreamed about.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 05, 2015, 08:24:41 AM
I've tried to be optimistic about JJ getting his hack paws off Trek, but so far I'm not convinced. But at the very least, it couldn't be worse than Into Darkness, right?

I'm sure they'll prove me wrong on that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 05, 2015, 08:49:26 AM
But at the very least, it couldn't be worse than Into Darkness, right?
Yeah, it could.  But I don't think it will.

Which doesn't mean it will be "good".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 05, 2015, 10:59:59 AM
Into Darkness is a great film. it's fun and exciting. The script isn't perfect but i enjoy it regardless.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: faizoff on June 05, 2015, 11:04:52 AM
I enjoyed both Star Trek movies immensely, I think they were fun movies though yeah the writing could've been better. But these are the guys who also wrote the Transformers movies so wasn't hoping for much in terms of plot but it had more than I hoped for.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 05, 2015, 11:25:17 AM
I think both of the new Star Trek movies are entertaining and fun, in the same way that most action blockbusters are entertaining and fun.  Switch your brain off, enjoy the spectacle, and be pleasantly surprised if the plot is actually interesting and doesn't have too many obvious holes.  If you can enjoy them on that level, cool.  Some people still won't like them, but whatever, you can't please everyone.

The group they tend to divide the most is the hardcore Star Trek fans.  They don't like how a certain character is portrayed, or how something from canon was changed or ignored, stuff like that.  And a lot of them still fall into the first category (the movie is still entertaining and fun) but a lot of them simply cannot get over the fact that it's Star Trek, but it's not "their" Star Trek, the one they know and love and expect it to be.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: faizoff on June 05, 2015, 11:29:33 AM
I think the other complaint from hard core Star Trek fans is that these new movies move far away from the thought provoking, social commentary and general scientific premise of past movies and shows. They are 'dumbed down' action movies set in the star trek universe and don't invoke the same mantra as before. They've become too star wars is a common complaint I read.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 05, 2015, 11:38:39 AM
I think both of the new Star Trek movies are entertaining and fun, in the same way that most action blockbusters are entertaining and fun.  Switch your brain off, enjoy the spectacle, and be pleasantly surprised if the plot is actually interesting and doesn't have too many obvious holes.  If you can enjoy them on that level, cool.  Some people still won't like them, but whatever, you can't please everyone.

The group they tend to divide the most is the hardcore Star Trek fans.  They don't like how a certain character is portrayed, or how something from canon was changed or ignored, stuff like that.  And a lot of them still fall into the first category (the movie is still entertaining and fun) but a lot of them simply cannot get over the fact that it's Star Trek, but it's not "their" Star Trek, the one they know and love and expect it to be.

Even ignoring all of that, the movies were just full of holes in their own right, the kind of generic modern action movies that don't even hold up to the scrutiny of shutting your brain off and sitting in front of a theater screen for two hours, let alone any repeated viewings, as is the norm for those hackjob writers. I was a new fan who had never watched a single episode of TOS when I saw ST11, and I still thought it was stupidly written (although watchable as far as big dumb action movies go). And Into Darkness is rubbish regardless of whether I judge it as a Trek movie or just another scifi movie.

They should just stop trying to adapt Trek to the big screen altogether, because it barely worked back in the 1980s, let alone in 2015 where movies have to aim at the lowest common denominator to earn back their budgets. It needs to come back to TV where it realizes its potential as more than just spaceship explosions and crashes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 05, 2015, 11:50:31 AM
I'll take both worlds.  My intellectual side wants the series on TV.


My "pound your chest" side wants to see the big dumb action film.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 05, 2015, 12:20:20 PM
The group they tend to divide the most is the hardcore Star Trek fans.  They don't like how a certain character is portrayed, or how something from canon was changed or ignored, stuff like that.  And a lot of them still fall into the first category (the movie is still entertaining and fun) but a lot of them simply cannot get over the fact that it's Star Trek, but it's not "their" Star Trek, the one they know and love and expect it to be.
This.

I think the other complaint from hard core Star Trek fans is that these new movies move far away from the thought provoking, social commentary and general scientific premise of past movies and shows. They are 'dumbed down' action movies set in the star trek universe and don't invoke the same mantra as before.
Also this.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: faizoff on June 06, 2015, 09:57:13 AM
This might've been posted elsewhere but I just came across it today. Quite relevant to the thread.

(https://i.imgur.com/IzR95Du.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 06, 2015, 02:40:48 PM
That actually explains a lot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 06, 2015, 03:08:45 PM

The group they tend to divide the most is the hardcore Star Trek fans.  They don't like how a certain character is portrayed, or how something from canon was changed or ignored, stuff like that.  And a lot of them still fall into the first category (the movie is still entertaining and fun) but a lot of them simply cannot get over the fact that it's Star Trek, but it's not "their" Star Trek, the one they know and love and expect it to be.
I think this is patently false. I don't know of many ST fans that didn't like the characterizations, I thought they were great, and revising the cannon was a good move. The reason it sucked isn't because of trekkie, anal-retentive nitpickings, but because it was simply Transformers set in the ST universe. Rather than not being the ST we remember, it just isn't ST at all. If they decide to make an actual sci-fi movie with the pieces they have in place, rather than a typical blockbuster explosion-fest, I suspect it'll be very good.

And for the record, I agree with your first paragraph. I find them entertaining to an extent. From time to time I'll watch them both skimming past the overly long and chaotic action sequences that pop up every ten minutes or so. You skip past all of the chase scenes and battle scenes which you can't discern anyway and it's actually quite entertaining.  Roughly 1/3-1/2 of each movie is fluff for the masses that's either unnecessary or an actual detriment.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 08, 2015, 07:33:36 AM
Yesterday I watched City on the Edge of Forever for the first time in a looooooooooooong time.

I marveled at how much I didn't like it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on June 12, 2015, 12:24:46 PM
Enterprise was amazing. Come at me!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 12, 2015, 12:28:10 PM
Enterprise is the FII of Star Trek. Initially hated, but the more time passes, the more one appreciates it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 12, 2015, 12:38:15 PM
Enterprise is the FII of Star Trek. Initially hated, but the more time passes, the more one appreciates it.

Nah. The difference is that FII was hated because it was different, but was actually awesome. Enterprise was just beyond stale rehash at that point and doesn't deserve any better than it gets. The only season that I think is worthwhile is S3, which was a really strong season, but then they lost all of that and went for contrived fanwank garbage for S4.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 12, 2015, 01:39:16 PM
I remember being pissed that the local station it was on at the time, (UPN) killed the last season by moving the time it played all over the week.  It was hard to follow before the DVR days.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 12, 2015, 04:53:27 PM
Enterprise is the FII of Star Trek. Initially hated, but the more time passes, the more one appreciates it.

Nah. The difference is that FII was hated because it was different, but was actually awesome. Enterprise was just beyond stale rehash at that point and doesn't deserve any better than it gets. The only season that I think is worthwhile is S3, which was a really strong season, but then they lost all of that and went for contrived fanwank garbage for S4.

I quite liked the Augments story arc.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 12, 2015, 10:56:24 PM
Enterprise is the FII of Star Trek. Initially hated, but the more time passes, the more one appreciates it.

Nah. The difference is that FII was hated because it was different, but was actually awesome. Enterprise was just beyond stale rehash at that point and doesn't deserve any better than it gets. The only season that I think is worthwhile is S3, which was a really strong season, but then they lost all of that and went for contrived fanwank garbage for S4.

I quite liked the Augments story arc.

That was my least favourite of them all. :lol They just tried cramming in so many backstories that were far better off left alone entirely.
The best story of the season was the mirror universe one, because for the first time the characters had some personality and fun to them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 13, 2015, 12:33:31 AM
As much as I love him as Data, I've kinda come to hate anything else Brent Spiner is/was in.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on June 13, 2015, 02:32:06 AM
I'll probably rewatch it at some point (I generally do not rewatch or re-read things unless a significant amount of time has passed). I had recently finished watching TNG and DS9. I never really watched them much in the 90s, just whenever we caught them on TV, in fact I think TNG was the only Star Trek that I had ever seen in the 90s. So once I was done with my TNG/DS9 marathons I needed more of that. Voyager failed to grab me so I started Enterprise.

One of the reasons I loved it so much, instantly in fact, was that it felt different and fresh. Suddenly we weren't on the best ship in the galaxy with the best and smartest crew that never really makes mistakes. It had a real sense of discovery, it wasn't just about the viewer getting to know the characters, it was also them getting to know the universe together, on a meh ship (compared to other civilizations), without infinite resources to back them up. There was also a sense of danger that felt real throughout the show, not just in the beginning.

As for the season 4 fanservice, I take that as an attempt to view back the trekkies that quit because of problems with the canon or that it didn't feel like Star Trek to them. And they probably knew it was going to be the last season so they tried to wrap things up. It did for me what a lot of people got out of BSG, but without the constant dread that made BSG really hard to watch, especially more than a couple of episodes at a time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 13, 2015, 03:08:20 AM
If there's one thing Enterprise is not, it's different and fresh. Most of it was rehash from earlier Trek (a lot of it from Voyager too), and it tried to copy the dynamic of TOS, except without the charm and attitude that made it work in the first place.

I think S4 was an attempt at trying to gain back the ST viewers who had abandoned it by relying on past Trek.  The show was boxed in by canon from the start, and they spent the first two seasons skirting around it on technicality so they could tell stories that weren't really ideal for it, then for S3 they came up with something fresh of its own that worked well, then for S4 they decided to go all in and tell stories that either shouldn't or didn't need to be told, or wouldn't have needed to be told if they wrote the show properly from the start. It was a confused mess. They should have just left it alone.
The producers involved didn't want to make any more Trek after Voyager, but the network pushed them, and that really shows imo with how uninspired the show is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on June 13, 2015, 03:41:08 AM
I don't know about that, I could never stand TOS. It didn't age well at all. So even if they copied from it, they must have improved on it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 13, 2015, 03:44:18 AM
:lol
I agree that TOS hasn't aged well for the most part (I always take digs at it when it comes up), but they most definitely did not improve on that aspect with Enterprise. They copied the dynamic, but without the personality. Archer was a cardboard cutout captain, and T'Pol was the worst main cast Vulcan they've ever had.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 13, 2015, 08:15:33 AM
T'Pol > 7 of 9 for looks.

Come at me :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 13, 2015, 08:24:47 AM
T'Pol > 7 of 9 for looks.

Come at me :hat

If you mean in character, no way. If you mean Jolene Blalock vs Jeri Ryan, I'd accept that. The gaunt pixie bowl cut look doesn't do it for me though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 13, 2015, 08:26:05 AM
If you mean Jolene Blalock vs Jeri Ryan, I'd accept that.

Yes. I prefer 7 as a character definitely.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on June 13, 2015, 09:01:14 AM
T'Pol > 7 of 9 for looks.

Come at me :hat
If you mean Jolene Blalock vs Jeri Ryan, I'd accept that.

Yes. I prefer 7 as a character definitely.

If you mean in character, no way. If you mean Jolene Blalock vs Jeri Ryan, I'd accept that. The gaunt pixie bowl cut look doesn't do it for me though.


All of this
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 16, 2015, 02:00:47 PM
So, I'm almost through rewatching DS9, and I found out that while I think every character grew magnificently during the show, the one who made the least out of it was Bashir. Particularly the Section 31 episodes annoy me, because Siddig is just this impetulant cynic the whole episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 18, 2015, 08:27:19 AM
T'Pol > 7 of 9 for looks.

Come at me :hat

If you mean in character, no way. If you mean Jolene Blalock vs Jeri Ryan, I'd accept that. The gaunt pixie bowl cut look doesn't do it for me though.
On this we disagree. As I've often said, 7 never did much for me but Annika Hansen with the longer hair was gorgeous. While I'm not a fan of the chile bowl haircut, T'Pol was still better looking, and better built, than 7. And for that matter, the short hair on JR was even less flattering than on JB.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 18, 2015, 08:34:13 AM
If there's one thing Enterprise is not, it's different and fresh. Most of it was rehash from earlier Trek (a lot of it from Voyager too), and it tried to copy the dynamic of TOS, except without the charm and attitude that made it work in the first place.

I think S4 was an attempt at trying to gain back the ST viewers who had abandoned it by relying on past Trek.  The show was boxed in by canon from the start, and they spent the first two seasons skirting around it on technicality so they could tell stories that weren't really ideal for it, then for S3 they came up with something fresh of its own that worked well, then for S4 they decided to go all in and tell stories that either shouldn't or didn't need to be told, or wouldn't have needed to be told if they wrote the show properly from the start. It was a confused mess. They should have just left it alone.
The producers involved didn't want to make any more Trek after Voyager, but the network pushed them, and that really shows imo with how uninspired the show is.
When I went back and rewatched it, season 3 didn't fair as well as I expected. While the Xindi storyline is very good, there's a ton of filler in there. Remember that more than half the episodes are unrelated or only tangentially related to the Xindi. Some were good and some were awful. Season two lacked the recurring story but might have been stronger in terms of quality vs shit episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 18, 2015, 08:37:51 AM
T'Pol > 7 of 9 for looks.

Come at me :hat

If you mean in character, no way. If you mean Jolene Blalock vs Jeri Ryan, I'd accept that. The gaunt pixie bowl cut look doesn't do it for me though.
On this we disagree. As I've often said, 7 never did much for me but Annika Hansen with the longer hair was gorgeous. While I'm not a fan of the chile bowl haircut, T'Pol was still better looking, and better built, than 7. And for that matter, the short hair on JR was even less flattering than on JB.

I'm not a fan of having the hair up at all, and JR did look better with her hair out (who doesn't?), but even with hair up I preferred it to the Vulcan bowl, especially the bad wig from the first couple of seasons. It wasn't looking too bad in S3 and 4 when they switched it out though, and sorted out the eyebrows a bit.

I don't see how Blalock was better built. She was a twig with bolt-on tits. She looked a lot better in the later seasons when they had the more fitted coloured outfits, rather than the steel wool potato sack of S1/2, but you can't compete with the wonders of the corseted catsuit. :lol (even out of the suit I thought she had a much better figure).

But hey, I'm not kicking either one out of bed! Each to their own.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 18, 2015, 08:43:43 AM
If there's one thing Enterprise is not, it's different and fresh. Most of it was rehash from earlier Trek (a lot of it from Voyager too), and it tried to copy the dynamic of TOS, except without the charm and attitude that made it work in the first place.

I think S4 was an attempt at trying to gain back the ST viewers who had abandoned it by relying on past Trek.  The show was boxed in by canon from the start, and they spent the first two seasons skirting around it on technicality so they could tell stories that weren't really ideal for it, then for S3 they came up with something fresh of its own that worked well, then for S4 they decided to go all in and tell stories that either shouldn't or didn't need to be told, or wouldn't have needed to be told if they wrote the show properly from the start. It was a confused mess. They should have just left it alone.
The producers involved didn't want to make any more Trek after Voyager, but the network pushed them, and that really shows imo with how uninspired the show is.
When I went back and rewatched it, season 3 didn't fair as well as I expected. While the Xindi storyline is very good, there's a ton of filler in there. Remember that more than half the episodes are unrelated or only tangentially related to the Xindi. Some were good and some were awful. Season two lacked the recurring story but might have been stronger in terms of quality vs shit episodes.

I rewatched it semi-recently, and I still thought S3 was very strong. There are some definite duds, like Extinction, which is one of Trek's worst episodes, and North Star with it's random Western theme, but it also had all of my favourites of Enterprise, like E2, Carpenter Street and Similitude.
I don't think I'd want every single episode to be related directly to the Xindi storyline. It makes sense that given the vast nature of their mission, there will be tangents and mistakes, so I actually liked that aspect. I find things get too monotonous if they're too narrowly focused in their overall story arc.

It's not that the first 2 seasons are outright bad, but the vast majority of it is redundant and stale. It's consistently mediocre.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 18, 2015, 09:07:28 AM
T'Pol > 7 of 9 for looks.

Come at me :hat

If you mean in character, no way. If you mean Jolene Blalock vs Jeri Ryan, I'd accept that. The gaunt pixie bowl cut look doesn't do it for me though.
On this we disagree. As I've often said, 7 never did much for me but Annika Hansen with the longer hair was gorgeous. While I'm not a fan of the chile bowl haircut, T'Pol was still better looking, and better built, than 7. And for that matter, the short hair on JR was even less flattering than on JB.

I'm not a fan of having the hair up at all, and JR did look better with her hair out (who doesn't?), but even with hair up I preferred it to the Vulcan bowl, especially the bad wig from the first couple of seasons. It wasn't looking too bad in S3 and 4 when they switched it out though, and sorted out the eyebrows a bit.

I don't see how Blalock was better built. She was a twig with bolt-on tits. She looked a lot better in the later seasons when they had the more fitted coloured outfits, rather than the steel wool potato sack of S1/2, but you can't compete with the wonders of the corseted catsuit. :lol (even out of the suit I thought she had a much better figure).

But hey, I'm not kicking either one out of bed! Each to their own.
JR was way too tall for my taste, and while she did have more meat on her, it didn't do anything to make her curvier. The only curves she had were those enormous tits, whereas JB was nicely built from to to bottom. How many times did you ever see JR and think "wow, great ass!"?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 18, 2015, 09:09:35 AM
I actually thought that often. Are you getting the two confused, because Blalock was the one with no ass. She was just a straight line with tits. The two are pretty much the same height too, 7 of 9 just had the heels.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 18, 2015, 09:38:46 AM
I actually thought that often. Are you getting the two confused, because Blalock was the one with no ass. She was just a straight line with tits. The two are pretty much the same height too, 7 of 9 just had the heels.
I guess it just comes down to preferred body types. Seven just always seemed to have no real defining features other than being a giant with a huge rack. Since I prefer smaller framed girls, which is not to say skinny, BTW, JB always came off better IMO. Also, the heals were part of the problem. I've never been a fan of the way high heals reshape the legs/ass.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 18, 2015, 09:41:43 AM
At least we won't have to fight over Trek girls in this unrealistic fantasy battle. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 18, 2015, 10:02:30 AM
I prefer Ryan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 18, 2015, 10:44:18 AM
So do I, but Jolene is pretty hot, too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 18, 2015, 12:36:10 PM
I often wondered if the actresses read threads like this. :lol


Psshaw, like they'd have a chance with me. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 18, 2015, 12:58:22 PM
So do I, but Jolene is pretty hot, too.
Well, yes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 18, 2015, 11:35:37 PM
So do I, but Jolene is pretty hot, too.

Well, yes. (but not as T'Pol imo)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 19, 2015, 08:36:21 AM
So do I, but Jolene is pretty hot, too.

Well, yes. (but not as T'Pol imo)
Yeah, I agree, but that wasn't the initial point. JR>JB, IMO. T'Pol>SoN.

In considering this I watched a couple of late night talk show appearances from both of them and it's rather interesting. JR really is gorgeous IRL, and she has one of those outgoing personalities that make her the focal point of the galaxy (just don't take her to a swinger's club). And yes, pretty nicely built. JB came across as flighty and a bit coked up, and not as pretty as JR (though I still prefer her body type), but she has an innate sexuality that JR seems completely devoid of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=febOvmrnVb0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV-3t4whoRA
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 19, 2015, 08:51:02 AM
I don't think I've ever actually seen JB outside of a TV show, just doing an interview as herself, or even seen her properly smile. That bumps her up a few notches (although I already thought she was hot out of costume anyway). The fact she's a pretty crummy actress usually works against her too, and she seems to be a total airhead from that interview (which could be viewed as a pro or a con depending on how you want to look at it :lol)
Outside of Trek, I'd probably put them about even now, but it's still a no brainer for me in costume that 7 of 9 is way hotter.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 19, 2015, 09:04:10 AM
I don't think I've ever actually seen JB outside of a TV show, just doing an interview as herself, or even seen her properly smile. That bumps her up a few notches (although I already thought she was hot out of costume anyway). The fact she's a pretty crummy actress usually works against her too, and she seems to be a total airhead from that interview (which could be viewed as a pro or a con depending on how you want to look at it :lol )
Outside of Trek, I'd probably put them about even now, but it's still a no brainer for me in costume that 7 of 9 is way hotter.
I generally tend to not judge anybody's acting based on their ST character. She played a convincing Vulcan and that's that. It's when they try to play other characters that you see how good or bad they are. That's why all of the DS9 mirror universe episodes sucked so horribly, horribly, badly. So I have no idea if she's a decent actress or not. As for the airhead part, probably, but she just seemed more doped up in that interview than actually dumb. Something else that'd bump her up a notch in my book. JR just doesn't strike me as the adventurous type, but eating some X or doing some blow and doing the late night chat shows works well for me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 19, 2015, 09:08:25 AM
I've seen Blalock in Stargate too, and she's just as bad. Still always appears to be on the verge of tears for some strange reason, and weirdly fidgety. I get the impression she scratches a lot between takes. Maybe that's why they had to invent the Trellium D storyline. :neverusethis:

You can still have her. I'll take Jeri Ryan. I like 'em classy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 19, 2015, 11:26:52 AM
Paramount Invites “Star Trek Beyond” Fan Creator to Pitch TV Series (https://trekmovie.com/2015/06/18/paramount-acquires-startrekbeyond-com-invites-star-trek-beyond-fan-creator-to-pitch-tv-series/)

First potentially exciting Star Trek news I've heard in years.  Also, great opportunity for a fan!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 19, 2015, 11:35:42 AM
Khan ! The Musical starring Gael Garcia Bernal  !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 19, 2015, 11:47:51 AM
Khan ! The Musical starring Gael Garcia Bernal  !
:yeahright
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 19, 2015, 11:49:33 AM
Quote
to bring Trek back to TV in a way it’s never been done (as a modern, premium cable format series with a modern dramatic structure) and to touch on current themes, sociopolitical topics and new sci-fi ideas that Trek hasn’t been able to address for the past 10 years.
While I've enjoyed some of the "modern, premium cable format series" a great deal, that's not what I'm interested in seeing in ST. Sounds to me like he's wanting "grittier," just like the rest of today's society, and I've always thought part of the appeal of ST was that even when it was very serious, it was still felt very much like fantasy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 19, 2015, 11:50:14 AM
Time for Blob to make a Lego Star Trek show.


Make it so.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 19, 2015, 12:16:47 PM
Quote
to bring Trek back to TV in a way it’s never been done (as a modern, premium cable format series with a modern dramatic structure) and to touch on current themes, sociopolitical topics and new sci-fi ideas that Trek hasn’t been able to address for the past 10 years.
While I've enjoyed some of the "modern, premium cable format series" a great deal, that's not what I'm interested in seeing in ST. Sounds to me like he's wanting "grittier," just like the rest of today's society, and I've always thought part of the appeal of ST was that even when it was very serious, it was still felt very much like fantasy.
Funny, I didn't get "grittier" from that at all.  Not sure where you got it.

He mentions "current themes and sociopolitical topics" which is exactly what TOS did.  No reason to read "grittier" into that at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 19, 2015, 07:38:44 PM
Quote
to bring Trek back to TV in a way it’s never been done (as a modern, premium cable format series with a modern dramatic structure) and to touch on current themes, sociopolitical topics and new sci-fi ideas that Trek hasn’t been able to address for the past 10 years.
While I've enjoyed some of the "modern, premium cable format series" a great deal, that's not what I'm interested in seeing in ST. Sounds to me like he's wanting "grittier," just like the rest of today's society, and I've always thought part of the appeal of ST was that even when it was very serious, it was still felt very much like fantasy.
Funny, I didn't get "grittier" from that at all.  Not sure where you got it.

He mentions "current themes and sociopolitical topics" which is exactly what TOS did.  No reason to read "grittier" into that at all.
That's just how I interpret "modern, premium cable format" and "modern dramatic structure." I also suspect that's what it would take for it to fly, nowadays. But hey, maybe I'm completely off base here.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 19, 2015, 09:45:08 PM
I don't like this idea, and I don't think it would happen anyway. CBS have turned down countless pitches, so I don't know why this one would be any different.

But Trek has to return to TV at some point.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on June 19, 2015, 10:01:57 PM
What is left to cover in terms of topics that haven't already been done, though?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 20, 2015, 10:05:18 AM
CBS have turned down countless pitches, so I don't know why this one would be any different.
At a guess, I would suspect that, since his original idea (and website) were called Star Trek Beyond, which is the same title that has been rumored for the next ST film, this retitling to Star Trek Uncharted and the chance for a pitch are connected with him giving them rights to that title.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 29, 2015, 02:24:32 PM
Sorry Blob & El Barto but Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto have signed up for Star Trek 4.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 29, 2015, 02:34:26 PM
Sorry Blob & El Barto but Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto have signed up for Star Trek 4.
That news doesn't disappoint me in the slightest. Just because they haven't done anything with the franchise thus far doesn't mean that they can't or won't. I think those two in particular have a lot of potential if they ever make real sci-fi, ST stuff. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 29, 2015, 02:48:03 PM
For all we know - Star Trek Beyond and Star Trek 4 will be amazing .

There's no Orci, Kurtzman or Lindelof for starters
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 29, 2015, 02:49:42 PM
I hope so.

But I will believe it when I see it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 29, 2015, 04:32:28 PM
For all we know - Star Trek Beyond and Star Trek 4 will be amazing .

There's no Orci, Kurtzman or Lindelof for starters
Hence me not being bothered by the announcement of Pine/Quinto. If the franchise continues to blow it doesn't really effect me and if it suddenly turns great, well, great. Like Hef, I think that's very unlikely, but I'd rather they keep trying than not, I suppose.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on June 29, 2015, 08:06:37 PM
The whole "#WeWantWorf" thing is definitely just a flash in the pan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 29, 2015, 11:45:52 PM
I hope so.

But I will believe it when I see it.

That.
And in terms of casting, I think both Pine and Quinto are great, so if by some miracle they can make a movie with a decent script, there is potential there.

The whole "#WeWantWorf" thing is definitely just a flash in the pan.

Remember the thing to have Frakes direct the next Trek movie? Yeah.......
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 11, 2015, 02:52:55 PM
Star Trek The Cruise To Launch (https://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/08/star-trek-the-cruise-to-launch/)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 11, 2015, 03:02:33 PM
Star Trek Deep Sea 9
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 12, 2015, 11:31:30 AM
Man, if you're one of those guys do you really want to be cooped up for six days on a boat full of treckies? Treckies die-hard enough to drop a grand minimum for the experience?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 12, 2015, 02:59:26 PM
They can always segregate them ! It would be just what Gene Roddenberry would have wanted !



......


Man, I read the synopsis for a TNG episode because I wanted to watch one whilst I ate dinner. I started it and realised it was the bloody Orient Express Holodeck episode...

YAWN. Skip thanks.

Whenever they do " Holodeck Go Fuck Up " episodes - they've never once done where it's genuinely fucked up and the laws of physics and euclidian space no longer apply.

No. It's always just a teensy bit odd in an old timey setting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 13, 2015, 12:04:55 AM
Man, if you're one of those guys do you really want to be cooped up for six days on a boat full of treckies? Treckies die-hard enough to drop a grand minimum for the experience?

That's a great point. It's difficult enough to put up with one of me. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 15, 2015, 12:04:15 PM

Man, I read the synopsis for a TNG episode because I wanted to watch one whilst I ate dinner. I started it and realised it was the bloody Orient Express Holodeck episode...

YAWN. Skip thanks.

Whenever they do " Holodeck Go Fuck Up " episodes - they've never once done where it's genuinely fucked up and the laws of physics and euclidian space no longer apply.

No. It's always just a teensy bit odd in an old timey setting.
If you're talking about Emergence, it's truly one of the most awful things they've done, but it doesn't have anything to do with The Orient Express, other than featuring a train.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 15, 2015, 02:52:23 PM
It's terrible. Should have stayed a mystery and not had the holo deck at all.

Just working out that aliens has made the ship self aware and were using it to get home.

Holo deck episodes are always awful. Always.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 17, 2015, 11:30:50 AM
On Star Trek, they sometimes dance.

Star Trek Pump up the Volume MARRS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7300dQEUO2w)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 17, 2015, 02:20:00 PM
I remember that song as being one of the final songs I heard before we moved from the UAE in 1988.

Another video I remember from my time in Dubai is Squeeze - Hourglass
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on August 18, 2015, 08:10:28 PM
If I understand it correctly, the only Trek name on that cruise is John deLancie? That's a lot of dough just to see some badly put together props on a cruise ship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 18, 2015, 10:20:40 PM
If I understand it correctly, the only Trek name on that cruise is John deLancie? That's a lot of dough just to see some badly put together props on a cruise ship.

While John Delancie is great and all, if I'm being stuck on a cruise with a bunch of other obsessive nerds, I'd need some bigger names, at least main cast.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 19, 2015, 11:20:14 AM
If I understand it correctly, the only Trek name on that cruise is John deLancie? That's a lot of dough just to see some badly put together props on a cruise ship.
???

Aside from Shatner:
Quote
Marina Sirtis and Jonathan Frakes from Star Trek: The Next Generation, Robert Picardo from Star Trek: Voyager, James Darren from Deep Space Nine, Denise Crosby from The Next Generation plus John de Lancie from TNG, Voyager and Deep Space Nine will all be part of our inaugural journey.

I'm curious if Shatner is actually on hand for the whole thing. I sort of figure he'll chopper in a couple of times throughout the trip. Or, he'll stay in the presidential suite with his own private deck and just wave down at the riff raff.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 20, 2015, 06:26:11 AM
If I understand it correctly, the only Trek name on that cruise is John deLancie? That's a lot of dough just to see some badly put together props on a cruise ship.

While John Delancie is great and all, if I'm being stuck on a cruise with a bunch of other obsessive nerds, I'd need some bigger names, at least main cast.

You could be the king of all nerds though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 20, 2015, 06:31:58 AM
If I understand it correctly, the only Trek name on that cruise is John deLancie? That's a lot of dough just to see some badly put together props on a cruise ship.

While John Delancie is great and all, if I'm being stuck on a cruise with a bunch of other obsessive nerds, I'd need some bigger names, at least main cast.

You could be the king of all nerds though.

The real king of nerds wouldn't be on a cruise ship. He'd be rotting away in front of a computer wallowing in his own filth!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 20, 2015, 06:36:45 AM
From your upper desk room with a view of the ocean. :lol

I have the urge to watch the SNL skit, "Love Boat: The Next Generation" now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 20, 2015, 06:39:24 AM
I have double curtains to block out any pesky photons, so for all I know there may already be a view of the ocean out there. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 21, 2015, 03:18:03 PM
Watched 2x Voyager .

Fury : Awful CGI when Kes is walking through Voyager.

& I forget the name but the one where there's a subspace tunnel controlled by an alien race so Voyager lands on a planet and yadda yadda revives aliens after 900 years.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 21, 2015, 03:56:44 PM
Watched 2x Voyager .

Fury : Awful CGI when Kes is walking through Voyager.

& I forget the name but the one where there's a subspace tunnel controlled by an alien race so Voyager lands on a planet and yadda yadda revives aliens after 900 years.
Not sure if you have a point to make, but the second one was Dragon's Teeth; not a bad episode. I liked that the aliens were upfront about thinking Neelix and all like him are fucking morons.

I think Fury was just an excuse to have Jennifer Lien on the show again before they wrapped it up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 21, 2015, 09:52:48 PM
Fury was quite bad from what I remember, but Dragon's Teeth was fairly good. Not one of their best, but I know I liked it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 22, 2015, 02:03:03 AM
No point to make. Just watched them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 24, 2015, 10:17:57 AM
The Star Trek: Renegades fan film has finally come out. Um, yeah.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE2Wgop9VLM
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 24, 2015, 10:34:41 AM
Certainly looks like an improvement. Normally they look like high school plays, but this seems to have progressed to community theater, or perhaps even off-broadway. No interest in watching it or anything, but they do seem to be getting better.

And Admiral Chekov? It took Sulu 20 years to make captain.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 24, 2015, 10:48:13 AM
Certainly looks like an improvement. Normally they look like high school plays, but this seems to have progressed to community theater, or perhaps even off-broadway. No interest in watching it or anything, but they do seem to be getting better.

And Admiral Chekov? It took Sulu 20 years to make captain.

CG has come a long way for low budget stuff, but I actually thought the CG looked a bit sub-par even for what it is. I put that down to being over-ambitious rather than a lack of talent, because there was actually a ton of CG throughout. The acting and dialogue wasn't particularly good considering there were a lot of semi-known actors in there.

Star Trek Continues is pro all around, although that's much more understated sticking to the TOS style, so it's obviously not an apples to apples comparison. Star Trek Horizon is looking really good so far considering it's all essentially done by one guy, although the acting in that is clearly amateur, and I'm not sure if the script will be much better than this.

I don't mean to knock anyone, as it is what it is, but I expected a little better from Renegades given all of the people involved, the money raised, and the time it took.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2015, 11:14:26 AM
:lol Holy crap that looks awful.

Glasses in the 24th century ?!

:lol


We can travel faster than light and solved the problem of mass and can disassemble you atom by atom and put you back together again but sorry we can't cure astigmatism !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 24, 2015, 11:17:51 AM
:lol Holy crap that looks awful.

Glasses in the 24th century ?!

:lol


We can travel faster than light and solved the problem of mass and can disassemble you atom by atom and put you back together again but sorry we can't cure astigmatism !

Kirk couldn't get his eyes fixed for whatever reason according to TWOK, plus it's a matter of access to good medical facilities.
Keep in mind I haven't watched this, and don't even care.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2015, 11:20:41 AM
I just watched about a minute of it and Walter Koenig is not even trying. Worst acting i've ever heard from him.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 24, 2015, 12:46:44 PM
I just watched about a minute of it and Walter Koenig is not even trying. Worst acting i've ever heard from him.
How could you tell?

He's never been good.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2015, 01:51:22 PM
At least before he sounded like he was trying :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 24, 2015, 02:00:03 PM
Certainly looks like an improvement. Normally they look like high school plays, but this seems to have progressed to community theater, or perhaps even off-broadway. No interest in watching it or anything, but they do seem to be getting better.

And Admiral Chekov? It took Sulu 20 years to make captain.

CG has come a long way for low budget stuff, but I actually thought the CG looked a bit sub-par even for what it is. I put that down to being over-ambitious rather than a lack of talent, because there was actually a ton of CG throughout. The acting and dialogue wasn't particularly good considering there were a lot of semi-known actors in there.

Star Trek Continues is pro all around, although that's much more understated sticking to the TOS style, so it's obviously not an apples to apples comparison. Star Trek Horizon is looking really good so far considering it's all essentially done by one guy, although the acting in that is clearly amateur, and I'm not sure if the script will be much better than this.

I don't mean to knock anyone, as it is what it is, but I expected a little better from Renegades given all of the people involved, the money raised, and the time it took.
It wasn't the CG I was referring to; any of these shows can pull that off nowadays. The others just have a cheap, highschool drama quality about them with the acting, lighting and whatnot. While I don't have audio here so I can't comment as to the lighting, skimming through it looked quite a bit more professional than the other fan stuff I've seen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2015, 02:10:05 PM
It looked pretty bad to me . The VFX looked worse than a SyFy movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 26, 2015, 01:09:54 PM
Watching Voyager. Macrocosm. Not a bad episode. Nods to Alien and Ripley.

A bit darker than usual which I like.


Interesting episode all round. Didn't feel or end like a traditional Voyager episode - with the jazz music playing out over a shot of the ship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 26, 2015, 10:22:47 PM
All I really remember of that episode is the Janeway being a badass bit (and the obvious Alien influence). The alien blobs weren't very memorable. S3 and onwards is generally better though, once they ditched the barnacle heads for good.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 26, 2015, 11:07:09 PM
I have a strange urge to watch Voyager again...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 26, 2015, 11:50:33 PM
I need to finally get TNG and watch through all Trek in airing order. But first I need to finish watching through all 26 seasons of the original Doctor Who. :|
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on August 27, 2015, 05:51:09 AM
I need to finally get TNG and watch through all Trek in airing order. But first I need to finish watching through all 26 seasons of the original Doctor Who. :|

First world problems.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 27, 2015, 05:53:55 AM
I need to finally get TNG and watch through all Trek in airing order. But first I need to finish watching through all 26 seasons of the original Doctor Who. :|

First world problems.

It's dirty job, but someone's gotta do it. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 27, 2015, 09:20:08 AM
All I really remember of that episode is the Janeway being a badass bit (and the obvious Alien influence). The alien blobs weren't very memorable. S3 and onwards is generally better though, once they ditched the barnacle heads for good.
The whole thing just seemed like an excuse to have Janeway run around in a tank-top like Ripley. I honestly got more of a John McClane vibe from it, though. I'm surprised they didn't hold off on the thing until Jeri Ryan joined up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 27, 2015, 09:26:34 AM
All I really remember of that episode is the Janeway being a badass bit (and the obvious Alien influence). The alien blobs weren't very memorable. S3 and onwards is generally better though, once they ditched the barnacle heads for good.
The whole thing just seemed like an excuse to have Janeway run around in a tank-top like Ripley. I honestly got more of a John McClane vibe from it, though. I'm surprised they didn't hold off on the thing until Jeri Ryan joined up.

I don't remember much of it, but I don't remember getting a Die Hard feeling from it, just Alien. But yeah, it seemed very much like that was the one thought behind it. They may not have quite thought that far ahead to 7 of 9 yet. Maybe seeing Janeway in that episode is what motivated that casting decision. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 27, 2015, 10:19:03 AM
Well, I despise Alien and its sequels, so it's not surprising that I'd see a different take on it.

And considering that looking hot in a sweaty tank-top was probably very low on the list of criteria when casting Cpt. Janeway, I thought she did alright for herself.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 27, 2015, 10:23:56 AM
I've never actually seen an Alien movie because I despise what little I saw, so it was a very surface comparison for me anyway. :lol

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 27, 2015, 11:01:51 AM
Well, I despise Alien and its sequel.


:facepalm:

And you thought I hated everything. ::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 27, 2015, 11:17:34 AM
I've never actually seen an Alien movie because I despise what little I saw, so it was a very surface comparison for me anyway. :lol
Yup. Exact same. Just a tone that I'm not crazy about.

Well, I despise Alien and its sequel.


 :facepalm:

And you thought I hated everything. ::)
Nah, don't think I've ever thought that. In fact, where we disagree is the reboots which you adore. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 27, 2015, 11:33:57 AM
:lol I don't think i've seen you say anything positive about Star Trek in this whole thread.

And yes I love the last two films. They are FAR superior to at least two if not all the TNG movies.

I love Generations.  First Contact gets worse every time I see it. Insurrection is the worst Trek movie of all time and I actually really enjoyed Nemesis the last time I watched it.

Nemesis is even more of a Wrath Of Khan rip off than Into Darkness. At least Into Darkness made no bones about it paying homage to a better movie .

Nemesis just ripped it off and hoped nobody would notice.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 27, 2015, 11:14:05 PM
As crap as Nemesis is, Nemesis is still a miles better movie than Into Darkness. I still haven't gotten all the way through a second viewing of Into Darkness.
What was the point of rebooting the entire universe when those hacks still couldn't come up with a single original idea? Then they tried to sneakily hide the fact it was a ripoff as long as possible by making awful casting choices. If you're going to rip off a classic, at least pay some respect to it. The big "reveal" that it was Khan could not have fallen flatter, because the characters had no clue who it was. Tell us who you are. I'm bob. Oh, ok bob. That means nothing to us. Oh wait, the better older Spock from the better older universe tells us you're dangerous. Sorry, bob.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 27, 2015, 11:57:17 PM
(https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11231678_906288042741170_7113136030513147031_n.jpg?oh=1f266dbac46537df4fa54b70787ba666&oe=563A5E27)

Just randomly saw this on another forum and found it appropriate. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 28, 2015, 08:03:44 AM
 :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2015, 10:46:16 AM
FAIL.


Should have AT LEAST had the shot just after The Ceti Eels have gone inside Terrell and Chekov's ears and Khan says " THAT'S BETTER ".



Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 28, 2015, 11:02:42 AM
But then it wouldn't have even had the continuity of him still being in the chair.


And as if we didn't all read it in Ricardo Montalban's voice anyway. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2015, 11:06:58 AM
ALTERNATE TIMELINE
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 28, 2015, 11:07:41 AM
What does that have to do with your previous point?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2015, 11:10:50 AM
nothing it was a joke.














I feel like we need two Star Trek threads. One for everyone to talk about Star Trek and the other for everyone else to bitch about every fuckin thing they can think of.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 28, 2015, 11:15:47 AM
Or maybe one for prime universe, and one for "misc". :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 28, 2015, 11:29:51 AM
Or maybe one for prime universe, and one for "misc". :biggrin:

I mock you wanting only one timeline as you watch a billion shows with multiple timelines and that's your gig.


Mock I tell you!  Mock! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2015, 11:35:27 AM
" The Star Trek Thread "

" :angry: Thatsh Not Shtar Trek ! Shpocksh Earsh are one millimeter too long ! "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 28, 2015, 11:37:12 AM
I feel like we need two Star Trek threads. One for everyone to talk about Star Trek and the other for everyone else to bitch about every fuckin thing they can think of.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=37446.0
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 28, 2015, 11:40:46 AM
 :lol

And change the lonely club thread to the Pon Farr Thread. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 28, 2015, 11:47:38 AM
As crap as Nemesis is, Nemesis is still a miles better movie than Into Darkness. I still haven't gotten all the way through a second viewing of Into Darkness.
What was the point of rebooting the entire universe when those hacks still couldn't come up with a single original idea? Then they tried to sneakily hide the fact it was a ripoff as long as possible by making awful casting choices. If you're going to rip off a classic, at least pay some respect to it. The big "reveal" that it was Khan could not have fallen flatter, because the characters had no clue who it was. Tell us who you are. I'm bob. Oh, ok bob. That means nothing to us. Oh wait, the better older Spock from the better older universe tells us you're dangerous. Sorry, bob.
I'm kind of torn on this. At the end of the day I'd probably go with ID as the better movie, mostly because the characters are better. Even the reboot TOS characters are more interesting than the real TNG crew. Moreover, while I agree that making him Khan was an awful thing to do, John Harrison was actually a much better villain than the fake-Picard.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2015, 12:42:03 PM
Yeh Benedict played his part a lot better than Tom Hardy. But to be fair on Hardy - it was a very early role for him and he is much better in later films.


If he had been John Harrison for the entire film - just a leader of a genetically engineered group of people who gets singled out to perform a task whilst Marcus holds his friends to ransom - and then he

plots his scheme to wreak revenge on Starfleet for creating them purely to be used as super human slaves and also holding his friends hostage as blackmail.

.. that would have been better. He wasn't Khan - as much as I enjoyed Cumberbatch's performance.

AND the warp core scene would have been a lot better if they'd ONLY not just repeated the same dialogue VERBATIM. There was no need for that at all.

Pretty much enjoyed everything else about it. That Crash Scene.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on August 28, 2015, 06:08:26 PM
For once, I am in full agreement with Kotowboy.     ID has its faults, but it was played fairly well.   Making John Harrison into Khan was an extremely poor choice.   And while I liked the warp core scene when I first saw it in the theater, it didn't hold up on repeated viewings...at...all... 

Nemesis is just absolute crap.   Out of all 12 movies, Nemesis is the only one that I genuinely despise and I pretty much just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.

Insurrection, in spite of feeling a bit too much like a TNG episode, is my favorite of all the Star Trek movies.   I really think it was a bad idea to give up on Frakes directing the films.   First Contact did really well (and is most people's favorite TNG film) and while Insurrection had lukewarm reviews, most people have not expressed outright hatred for it.   I think most people just thought it was "meh" film, and certainly a letdown after FC.     I just think Frakes deserved another chance.   
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 29, 2015, 12:43:38 AM
I'm kind of torn on this. At the end of the day I'd probably go with ID as the better movie, mostly because the characters are better. Even the reboot TOS characters are more interesting than the real TNG crew. Moreover, while I agree that making him Khan was an awful thing to do, John Harrison was actually a much better villain than the fake-Picard.

But you've always had a thing against the TNG crew.
I do agree that John Harrison would have been a better villian than Shinzon had he been his own character, instead of a piss-weak substitute for Khan, but unfortunately they made him a piss-weak substitution for Khan, which raised too many problems that made no sense at all not only to the character of Khan (and no, "alternate universe" is not an excuse for any of it), but also the entire plot of the movie itself as a self contained unit, which became a poor parody of Trek as a result.
Given all of that, I'd still say ID is the worse Trek movie. I'm not arguing Nemesis is a good movie, but if I'm measuring the number of times I yelled at the screen throughout, ID fared so much worse.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 29, 2015, 06:00:06 AM
I'd still say ID is the worse Trek movie. I'm not arguing Nemesis is a good movie, but if I'm measuring the number of times I yelled at the screen throughout, ID fared so much worse.
I agree.  ID is the only ST film that left me feeling angry after watching.

I've felt disappointed by several of the others, and bored to tears after the first one, but angry only after ID.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 29, 2015, 06:04:35 AM
I shame all of you for not picking a Star Trek movie as the worst if it's not directed by Shatner.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 29, 2015, 09:41:06 AM
I've felt disappointed by several of the others, and bored to tears after the first one, but angry only after ID.

Likewise. Star Trek doesn't have a great hit-rate when it comes to the movies, but ID was uniquely bad.

I shame all of you for not picking a Star Trek movie as the worst if it's not directed by Shatner.

But TFF is amazingly bad. :lol It's a movie length episode of TOS, and stupidly fun.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The Dark Master on August 29, 2015, 10:14:56 AM
I've felt disappointed by several of the others, and bored to tears after the first one, but angry only after ID.

Likewise. Star Trek doesn't have a great hit-rate when it comes to the movies, but ID was uniquely bad.


I think it's because the Abrams films barely even feel like Star Trek anymore, so the nostalgic factor is no longer there.  I can watch The Final Frontier and, as bad as it is, still enjoy watching it because it has that old-school Trek charm (plus I respect the concept, even if the execution was terrible).  Conversely, Into Darkness is just frustrating to watch because it lacks that charm and just feels like a standard modern space action movie with mind-numbingly incompetent writing.  Final Frontier is bad, but it's bad in a uniquely Trek way, and that gives it a modicum of entertainment value; Into Darkness just feels generic in it's failures.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on September 01, 2015, 02:55:21 AM
Many pages back I posted several updates about a friend who asked me to "teach Star Trek" to her. Many weekends of TV shows and good food later, we're done with my "curriculum" now, having watched about 25% of TOS, 30% of TNG, 45% of DS9, 15% of VOY, 40% of ENT and all movies. We've also watched a lot of other stuff in between including all of American Dad, Avatar TLA/TLOK, Boston Legal, Futurama, Sherlock and various other movies.

We'll probably take a break from scifi for a while now, maybe watch Penny Dreadful and complete Gargoyles before tackling Firefly and Babylon 5.

But I must have done something right as she wasn't scared away by the B5 DVD-Box and another 100+ episodes show we're going to watch in full at all as she's come to trust in my prediction that she'll like it. Plus she also said "we can always watch more Trek episodes in between". :heart

It's a real joy to introduce someone else to something you love so much and get such positive response.
Can't wait to continue that journey!

Greetings...
Nef

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 01, 2015, 07:19:41 AM
Nef, you are doing a great service to Trekdom, and to mankind in general.  :tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 06, 2015, 03:04:03 PM
Just Watched "Coda" the Voyager episode. Not bad. I prefer darker Voyager episodes.

Not sure if it was trying to "say" anything about an afterlife or people who believe in one but it was not a bad episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 06, 2015, 10:09:58 PM
Star Trek was usually not ballsy enough to try to make any definitive statements about the afterlife/religion, so I'm not sure it was trying to make any point in that regard. I recall that being an average but not bad episode, like you said.
For dark moments in Voyager, I liked the Vidiians, because it was only about survival for them. Friendship One is also quite bleak even though they sorta fix up the problem in the end.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on September 07, 2015, 11:07:17 AM
Some years ago after I watched TNG for the first time in its entirety (in the 90s I only caught random episodes here and there), I started watching Voyager but I quickly gave up on it after a few episodes. It just seemed so much worse (no character caught my attention too) after watching TNG, Babylon 5 and DS9 pretty much back to back. Does it get significantly better later and does it have a proper end or was it cancelled?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 07, 2015, 01:43:11 PM
Voyager has a proper end but it's a really lame finale. Nowhere near s great as " All Good Things ".

And Enterprise was cancelled AND had a terrible finale.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 07, 2015, 03:07:28 PM
Voyager does not get significantly better.  It gets a little better.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 07, 2015, 03:18:30 PM
Voyager ending is basically

" Yay we're back to Earth THE END "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 07, 2015, 10:19:28 PM
Voyager does not get significantly better.  It gets a little better.

It gets a little better at S3. It gets significantly better once it hits S4.

The only Trek series to get canceled were TOS and ENT, and all but TOS have proper endings. I'd say Voyager's finale is quite a good episode, but as a finale it doesn't give any payoff, like Kotowboy said. DS9 managed to get that absolutely perfect.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on September 08, 2015, 02:33:40 AM
And Enterprise was cancelled AND had a terrible finale.

But I have to say those beauty shots of the 1701-D and the end with three ships and three voices make me smile and sigh every time. And increasingly so with the passing of time as the nostalgia factor grows for every year without some real Trek.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 08, 2015, 02:45:08 AM
That last bit was nice on its own (perhaps the only redeeming factor of the episode), but coupled with the fact the whole episode was wrapped in a TNG holodeck framework made for a spit in the face finale to the cast who featured on the show for 4 seasons. I get that they were trying to make it a send-off to the Trek franchise as a whole, but it was overall a garbage episode, and understandably a lot of people were not happy about it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on September 08, 2015, 03:21:32 AM
Agreed, the holodeck thing was a fun concept for any other episode but a very bad choice for a finale. The random "we need drama, let's kill someone" didn't help much either.

The 1701-D freshly rendered though... niiiice! :metal

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2015, 04:24:05 AM
Voyager does not get significantly better.  It gets a little better.

It gets a little better at S3. It gets significantly better once it hits S4.

The only Trek series to get canceled were TOS and ENT, and all but TOS have proper endings. I'd say Voyager's finale is quite a good episode, but as a finale it doesn't give any payoff, like Kotowboy said. DS9 managed to get that absolutely perfect.


I hate any episode where the problem is resolved and it immediately goes to credits. No wrap up or anything.


Voyager should have had scenes of them meeting up with their families again after 7 years away and settling down and things like that. And what happens to the EMH now he's no longer needed ?

It was like " We're home! CREDITS "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 08, 2015, 04:35:44 AM
I agree. I've never liked episodes of shows that end immediately as the conflict is resolved, because I want not only the conclusion, but the emotional payoff to that conclusion.
That was especially so with Endgame, given how much these characters wanted to catch up with their loved ones, and also I wanted to see the reaction to all of the stuff Voyager had done in their 7 year trip, like the EMH with his developing personality and mobile emitter, 7 of 9 being de-Borged, the future ablative armour and upgrades on Voyager, and a bunch of other stuff.

I liked that DS9 wrapped up most of the show's arc about 2/3 of the way into the finale, leaving about half an hour just to give each character their own closure. Nothing felt unresolved or left hanging. It was the most satisfying finale imo. Not necessarily better than AGT, but given that DS9 didn't continue on in film, more satisfying.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 08, 2015, 04:59:52 AM
Durring the original TAG run my dad came up with what he called the :52 resolution.   Where the resolution to the conflict ends 52 minutes into the show.  It never failed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2015, 05:12:29 AM
TNG ?


That would definitely never fail since the episodes are 45 minutes long :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 08, 2015, 05:20:14 AM
Opps.  Yeah.  TNG.  It never failed.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2015, 05:41:27 AM
They're still only 45 minutes.

On BBC2 they had no ad breaks so they were probably 60 minutes with ads.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 08, 2015, 05:49:18 AM
Oh always adds.  Can't do that now on reruns but the first run of the show its timing was dead on :52.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 08, 2015, 08:25:55 AM
Voyager does not get significantly better.  It gets a little better.

It gets a little better at S3. It gets significantly better once it hits S4.

Okay, it did get significantly better in S4, but I always felt that the improvements came at a cost, and underscored other things they still managed to fail on, which marred the improvements in my mind.  They dumped Kes, who I liked, in order to bring on the boobalicious Borg babe.  Fortunately, the Borg-related stories tended to be pretty well done, but it still felt like they'd brought in an established "species" (the Borg) because they didn't know how to work with the crew they had.  Exploring Kes' two-year lifespan could have been really interesting, and they could even have used that to write her off, but they apparently forgot about that aspect of her character.  The initial makeup of the crew being half Federation and half Maquis should have led to some great conflicts; instead it was barely addressed.  Harry Kim got hints of character growth here and there, but after seven years he was still an ensign.  Not even a field promotion for saving the ship a few times.  Exploring Beh'lanna being half-Klingon, half-Human could have been interesting, but instead it was just a source of non-stop cliches.  So yeah, once it became "The 7 of 9 Show Starring Jeri Ryan" it did get better, but it was practically a different show, and it still had a lot of the problems it had before.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 08, 2015, 08:41:02 AM
I can't really argue any of that. They didn't ever fix the fundamental problems of abandoning their original premise, but they did manage to realize their strengths and play to them a lot better once they hit S4.

I had nothing against Kes, but I don't think the show lost anything by dumping her, because she was rarely utilized. Bringing in a former Borg opened up a lot of ideas, and the EMH character developed once he got the mobile emitter in the middle of S3. And they focused more on the scifi/action type stories that didn't rely so heavily on the weaker cast, and they managed to do those types of episodes better than the other Trek series imo, thanks to the complete switch to CGI.

It didn't reach the strength of TNG/DS9, but I think it's a respectable part of the Trek family.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 08, 2015, 08:44:48 AM
Some years ago after I watched TNG for the first time in its entirety (in the 90s I only caught random episodes here and there), I started watching Voyager but I quickly gave up on it after a few episodes. It just seemed so much worse (no character caught my attention too) after watching TNG, Babylon 5 and DS9 pretty much back to back. Does it get significantly better later and does it have a proper end or was it cancelled?
All ST series have their bad, their average and their good episodes, with a smattering of Godawful and brilliant ones tossed in. I've found all of the series to be about the same with the bulk of them, with the only real difference being the number of brilliant ones. TNG and DS9 certainly had the most really exceptional episodes, but for the most part we're looking at a very slight difference in quality between the series once they all average out. VOY is just like the others in that you'll see good, bad and ugly with a couple of great ones here and there. It's possible you just stumbled across some bad/average ones. That's why you really have to stick with these things if you haven't seen them through before.

As for conclusions, DS9 did it right but that was the simple part since they'd been working the same story for 4 years. It was easy for them to spend the first hour ending the war and the second hour wrapping everything else up. All Good Things was a great episode, but it really just seemed like a great episode to me more than a conclusion to the thing. The day after Picard got his marbles back they were going to be rescuing refugees, studying some stellar phenomenon and killing time in the holodeck paripicpaing in far more entertaining realities than their own, just like every day for the last 7 years.

I understand why VOY ended the way it did, and providing closure to everything would have taken another 45 minutes or so which it didn't have. This wasn't DS9 where the final battle had been fought the week before. The only way to really do that would have been for Q to show up and say, "well, here you go, Merry Christmas" and blink them home so they could spend time wrapping it all up. Add to that I doubt it would have been as rewarding as people wanted. I'm fine with letting my imagination provide the closure, because there's a lot of stuff that they never would have hit upon. If you think about it the 4 weeks of debriefing Janeway would have been fantastic, and not something they could have done.

Besides, the best part of the post-return conclusion would have been when the temporal investigations guys showed up and said "hey, that was great try, way to go, but, uh, no!" and sent them right back to where they were, tossing future Janeway into some sort of prison.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 08, 2015, 09:18:13 AM
The temporal agent dudes from Trials and Tribblelations would have crapped their pants at that one. :lol

I've said it before, but for all Trek series but TOS, I think the first two seasons were easily the weakest, then they all had a sudden improvement, each for their own clearly identifiable reasons.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 15, 2015, 04:34:20 PM
 Kes arrested for indecent exposure  (https://www.treknews.net/2015/09/15/jennifer-lien-arrested-indecent-exposure-voyager/)


What did she leave the house with no make up on ? :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 15, 2015, 04:40:01 PM
Damn, that's so sad.  She's apparently gone off the deep end.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 15, 2015, 05:17:00 PM
Man, talk about not giving a fuck.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 15, 2015, 10:12:42 PM
Crazy. You wouldn't even recognize her either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 16, 2015, 07:53:52 AM
Holy crap.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 16, 2015, 08:01:28 AM
Holy crap.

Yes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 16, 2015, 02:14:36 PM
DAAAAAYYYMMMM!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 16, 2015, 04:12:48 PM
She needs help.  Obviously the behavior is pretty bizarre, but also look at the mug shots.  The weird, contented smirk.  Something's definitely not right in her head.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 18, 2015, 10:28:01 AM
The Star Trek threequel has been pushed back a couple of weeks, from July 8 to July 22.

Apparently, a new version of Tarzan had already booked all of the IMAX screens in the U.S. in early July.  Since they want that to be a significant part of the revenue stream for the film, they pushed back the release date to when the IMAX screens would be more readily available.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 19, 2015, 02:17:01 AM
Meh. What's two weeks ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 19, 2015, 02:48:31 AM
When we're talking over half a year out, it makes no difference to me. At this point I didn't even care to look what the release date was.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 19, 2015, 07:50:08 AM
Quote
" Three-quel "

Oh God. ::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 19, 2015, 08:18:27 AM
Squeak-quel?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 19, 2015, 08:52:05 AM
Phrases Kotowboy will accept :

• Sequel.

• Prequel.

• Remake.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 19, 2015, 08:57:36 AM
Then you're in luck, because Into Darkness was all three! :P

What about Pre-three-quel? Pre-boot? Re-inno-magining? Pre-bake? Encoremakquel?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 19, 2015, 10:12:46 AM
Then you're in luck, because Into Darkness was all three! :P



Kinda :P


PRE-boot ? :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 19, 2015, 12:34:03 PM
Then you're in luck, because Into Darkness was all three! :P

What about Pre-three-quel? Pre-boot? Re-inno-magining? Pre-bake? Encoremakquel?
Steaming pile of Sasquatch shit?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 21, 2015, 08:48:14 AM
Phrases Kotowboy will accept :

• Sequel.

• Prequel.

• Remake.
Sorry, your highness.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 21, 2015, 10:24:40 AM













































































k
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 21, 2015, 10:36:55 AM
Hopefully the threequel won't suck.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 21, 2015, 10:42:31 AM
Well the last two didn't.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 21, 2015, 10:49:51 AM
Hopefully the threequel won't suck.

Then it would establish a new reverse Star Trek curse for the alt universe, of the odds being the good ones, and the evens sucking.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 21, 2015, 01:40:40 PM
Well the last two didn't.
Opinions vary.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 21, 2015, 01:44:33 PM
Well the last two didn't.
Opinions vary.

Sorry, your highness.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 22, 2015, 08:56:56 AM
Well the last two didn't.
Opinions vary.

Sorry, your highness.
That's OK.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 22, 2015, 10:47:18 AM
Well the last two didn't.
Opinions vary.

Sorry, your highness.
That's OK.

I'm ok with them myself. 

The franchise needed some adrenaline and it got it.  Sure it's not the Star Trek we grew up with but that Star Trek was running on fumes.  Maybe this will help with getting a new series on TV, maybe not but they weren't coming out with another movie with the same formula that Roddenberry established.  It, in the modern movie world was not working.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 22, 2015, 10:48:43 AM
Hopefully the threequel won't suck.

Then it would establish a new reverse Star Trek curse for the alt universe, of the odds being the good ones, and the evens sucking.
I didn't think two sucked any more or less than one. They both had their moments both good and bad. They both make for 45 minutes or so of entertaining viewing, but fail as 90 minute movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 22, 2015, 10:50:22 AM
Well the last two didn't.
Opinions vary.

Sorry, your highness.
That's OK.

I'm ok with them myself. 

The franchise needed some adrenaline and it got it.  Sure it's not the Star Trek we grew up with but that Star Trek was running on fumes.  Maybe this will help with getting a new series on TV, maybe not but they weren't coming out with another movie with the same formula that Roddenberry established.  It, in the modern movie world was not working.
While I agree with you, as has been stated here, the problem is that sci-fi doesn't really work anymore in the big-budget arnea, and that's what ST is. The new franchise works for modern audiences is because it's action set in space.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 22, 2015, 10:53:41 AM
It, in the modern movie world was not working.

Turning Trek into Star Wars isn't working either. :biggrin: It's not like the old movies had a terribly good hit rate either, but real Trek (and imo most real scifi) just isn't suited to the big screen, and the new movies are one extreme end of how it can fail hard.

Trek has always been at its best on TV. My greatest fear is that when we finally get a new Trek series, one of these hacks is in charge. Unlike the '90s when Trek and scifi were at a high point, there is currently a huge opening for a smart space-based scifi series.

My dream is still to have Simon Barry in charge of a new Trek series. Hell, just do the whole thing in Canada, because America has no clue how to do scifi anymore.

(edit: oh hi Barto)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 22, 2015, 10:56:53 AM
I didn't think two sucked any more or less than one. They both had their moments both good and bad. They both make for 45 minutes or so of entertaining viewing, but fail as 90 minute movies.

That might be because they're both over two hours. :P

And I didn't get anywhere near 45 minutes of entertainment out of ID. :lol Both very flawed movies, but imo ST11 is still quite a bit better.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 22, 2015, 11:00:40 AM
It, in the modern movie world was not working.

Turning Trek into Star Wars isn't working either. :biggrin: It's not like the old movies had a terribly good hit rate either, but real Trek (and imo most real scifi) just isn't suited to the big screen, and the new movies are one extreme end of how it can fail hard.

Trek has always been at its best on TV. My greatest fear is that when we finally get a new Trek series, one of these hacks is in charge. Unlike the '90s when Trek and scifi were at a high point, there is currently a huge opening for a smart space-based scifi series.

My dream is still to have Simon Barry in charge of a new Trek series. Hell, just do the whole thing in Canada, because America has no clue how to do scifi anymore.

(edit: oh hi Barto)

Well let's hope it leads to another TV show.  I miss watching a story arc from them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 22, 2015, 12:15:11 PM
I didn't think two sucked any more or less than one. They both had their moments both good and bad. They both make for 45 minutes or so of entertaining viewing, but fail as 90 minute movies.

That might be because they're both over two hours. :P

And I didn't get anywhere near 45 minutes of entertainment out of ID. :lol Both very flawed movies, but imo ST11 is still quite a bit better.
Both are very flawed in terms of the overall stories and the big picture. Both have plenty of entertaining scenes. In the case of the first one you can knock off most of the action sequences and get a enjoyable 50% out of it. It's been a while, but my recollection of ID is that the first 20 minutes of it is fine, you skip most of the early Harrison stuff, and turn it off once they blow the bejeezus out of whatever Weller's ship was called. Either way, they both have plenty of good content, it's just interspersed with the crap.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 22, 2015, 12:21:50 PM
What would fix Into Darkness FOR ME

• Explain how Khan looks different. You basically need one line : " My appearance was altered so as not to arouse suspicion. " blah de blah job done.

• WHY did Admiral Marcus want a war with the Klingons ? Just so he could use his fuck-off new ship ? Was Khan lying that Marcus wanted a war ?

• Change the dialogue in the warp core scene so it's not just the exact same lines VERBATIM. It's not even the same characters delivering the same lines for goodness sake. In The Wrath of Khan -

Bones calls the bridge and says " You Better get down here. Better Hurry " and also " You'll flood the whole compartment ". In Into Darkness - Scotty says the same lines. Which doesn't make any

sense other than just being a reference to TWOK. That scene would be so much better without the repeated lines.

• Have Khan be killed / disabled by the Uss Vengeance crash. Delete the entire trash barge scene. Spock would never be that violent.


^ Apart from those few things I love Into Darkness.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 22, 2015, 12:25:48 PM
It'd be much simpler to name the bad guy, I don't know,  John Harrison or something, and ditch the whole attempt at redoing TWoK altogether.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 22, 2015, 12:28:36 PM
It'd be much simpler to name the bad guy, I don't know,  John Harrison or something, and ditch the whole attempt at redoing TWoK altogether.
:tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 22, 2015, 01:00:02 PM
Yeah he could have just been John Harrison - a failed experiment at a superhuman race ( hell you could have gotten in with the whole superhero shit ) - who Marcus blackmails into designing a

supership. That eliminates the problem of a 300 year old Sikh being able to design a better Space ship than any Starfleet engineers.  Marcus could have held the rest of his "race" in suspended

animation with the condition that Harrison completes the ship or he'll pull the plug on them.

I don't know how I would have written the ending though. I think Kirk realising the ultimate sacrifice is what a true Captain sometimes is asked to do - is a good idea. Just tweak it a bit.

I'd have had Marcus the true villain and have Harrison just a patsy - who is only trying to save the rest of his "race" by doing what he feels is the only solution.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on September 22, 2015, 05:28:36 PM
Check this out:

https://www.enterprise3dproject.com/
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 22, 2015, 05:33:38 PM
 :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :coolio :coolio :coolio :coolio :coolio
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 22, 2015, 05:47:50 PM
That Virtual Tour video is incredible !

I liked the 3 sea shells in the dunny ! :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 22, 2015, 11:49:38 PM
I randomly came across that only a few hours ago while searching for blueprints for the Enterprise D. :lol :blob:

I have ground plans, but I was hoping for elevation and details. Oh well. I'll make do!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 23, 2015, 03:24:48 AM
If the entire ship was done like that and you could just walk around and explore every room - i'd be in there all day :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 23, 2015, 03:28:45 AM
It would get boring unless they furnish each room uniquely, and not just 1000 identical crew quarters. And it needs people roaming around and doing things. Then it will be cool. :tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 23, 2015, 03:35:13 AM
I noticed Ten Forward was a lot smaller than it is on the show. Plus I don't know how accurate they're going with it but it appeared to be on deck 2 as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on September 23, 2015, 04:02:32 AM
Would be cool using that with VR.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 23, 2015, 04:08:25 AM
I noticed Ten Forward was a lot smaller than it is on the show. Plus I don't know how accurate they're going with it but it appeared to be on deck 2 as well.


There could be a few reasons for that. It might not be smaller, but might appear so due to the different camera and field of view. Or maybe they had to compromise for the sake of the ship layout and fitting it with the exterior. The interiors never match the exteriors 100%, and that goes for almost any fictional ship from any franchise. It will be easier to tell once they get some people in there to give a point of reference for scale.
I just watched the video properly, and what they have so far is very impressive.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 23, 2015, 08:07:02 AM
Would be cool using that with VR.


Shit yeah - i'd lawnmower man that shit and figure out how to upload my consciousness :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 23, 2015, 08:08:28 AM
I noticed Ten Forward was a lot smaller than it is on the show. Plus I don't know how accurate they're going with it but it appeared to be on deck 2 as well.


There could be a few reasons for that. It might not be smaller, but might appear so due to the different camera and field of view. Or maybe they had to compromise for the sake of the ship layout and fitting it with the exterior. The interiors never match the exteriors 100%, and that goes for almost any fictional ship from any franchise. It will be easier to tell once they get some people in there to give a point of reference for scale.
I just watched the video properly, and what they have so far is very impressive.

I imagined they had to scale it back due to the actual physical space they were working with so decided to just go with an approximation.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 23, 2015, 08:23:39 AM
First thing I noticed was 10-Forward. Went and watched a few minutes of Power Play, which took place mostly there, and it certainly does seem smaller in the simulation. The doors also appeared to be in the wrong place.

Also, it looks no different than the parts they had built for one of the Elite Force series games, which also used the Unreal engine. I found most of the games pretty crappy, but there were some very good missions/levels that took place aboard the D, and a largely blown to bits Excelsior class ship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 23, 2015, 10:29:21 AM
I had another look and the door actually says " TWO Forward " so it's probably just a lounge on Deck 2. Which would make more sense.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 23, 2015, 10:33:51 AM
And I just noticed that the windows angle the wrong way. The windows of ten forward angle inwards, as it's on the lower edge of the saucer section. This looks to be the floor above that.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 23, 2015, 10:42:39 AM
:hifive: we're a bunch of saddoes !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 23, 2015, 10:43:49 AM
But in all SRSNS - If this was available as a game with occasional missions and they did THE ENTIRE SHIP - including every Jeffries Tube and turbolift etc. I would so buy it.

And if indeed it came out for VR - i'd live in there :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 23, 2015, 10:52:51 AM
:hifive: we're a bunch of saddoes !

If that wasn't sad enough, by complete coincidence I happen to be creating parts of the Ent-D interior myself right now. :lol

I can't wait to try this out in VR, and see the bridge. There's a bunch of stuff I want to make/see in VR as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 23, 2015, 10:59:55 AM
Like I said - If they managed to include the entire ship including all Jeffries tubes and turbolifts etc etc - i'd get that for VR in an instant.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 23, 2015, 11:03:22 AM
I wonder how long it would take to explore an entire ship the size of the real Enterprise D? It's a huge ship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 23, 2015, 11:04:52 AM
I wonder how long it would take to explore an entire ship the size of the real Enterprise D? It's a huge ship.

650 metres ? Plus you could even explore the areas you wouldn't be able to on the show due to horrific burny death radiation :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 23, 2015, 11:07:27 AM
:lol Even excluding the horrific burny death radiation sections, just exploring all of the rooms in the saucer section would take a while.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 23, 2015, 11:17:17 AM
:lol Even excluding the horrific burny death radiation sections, just exploring all of the rooms in the saucer section would take a while.

I'm kinda obsessed with scale and it's nice to see how big the dish is compared to the conference room and that shuttle bay is enormous. For obvious reasons you couldn't show it on the TV show.


One thing i've always wondered is - on the underside of the dish there are windows on which would be the floor. Are those quarters upside down or what ? :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 23, 2015, 11:19:48 AM
:lol Even excluding the horrific burny death radiation sections, just exploring all of the rooms in the saucer section would take a while.

It would especially take longer if you stopped for a booty call with Ensign Roe.

Oh well, you're no Riker, Blob.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 23, 2015, 11:26:40 AM
:lol Even excluding the horrific burny death radiation sections, just exploring all of the rooms in the saucer section would take a while.

It would especially take longer if you stopped for a booty call with Ensign Roe.

Oh well, you're no Riker, Blob.

I'm more of a Wesley.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 23, 2015, 11:31:56 AM
I figured Reginald Barclay.  Loves to interact on the Holodeck (internet) but not face to face (where one could sprain an ankle). :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 27, 2015, 12:20:44 PM
Star Trek loved to re-use actors so much - if Ricardo Montalban had showed up on TNG it would not have surprised me :lol


After all - Paul Winfield was in an episode and so was Joachim from Wrath Of Khan and also the actor who played David.


( Not all in the same episode I mean )...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 27, 2015, 08:01:00 PM
Star Trek was pretty loyal with their guest stars. I always think it's fun spotting them.

Tony Todd played Worf's brother in TNG/DS9, he played old Jake Sisko in DS9's The Visitor, and he played the main Hirogen dude in Voyager. You can put all the prosthetics you want on him, but there's no hiding that amazing voice. :lol

Tim Russ was an extra in Star Trek 6 on the bridge of the Enterprise B, he almost got the part of Geordi LaForge, he guest starred as a Klingon in DS9, then finally got the part of Tuvok in Voyager. He got there in the end!

And Jeffrey Combs was fantastic at pretty much everything they gave him.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 28, 2015, 03:30:51 AM
Let's not forget David Warner in Star Trek 5 and 6 and of course the Cardassian torturing Picard in TNG.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 28, 2015, 04:20:57 AM
And Kurtwood Smith was in the movies as the leader of Starfleet or something, in DS9 as a Cardassian, and Annorax in Voyager.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 28, 2015, 07:47:42 AM
Annorax :lol

Funny every time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 28, 2015, 07:48:22 AM
You mean the name? It's always made me think anorexia.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 28, 2015, 07:49:36 AM
I guess you Aussies don't call jackets Anoraks ? Is it just a Brit thing ?

I'm guessing that Annorax is pronounced : An - ORR - Acts. Emphasis on the ORR.

Anorak is pronounced AN - or - ak. Just FYI :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 28, 2015, 07:55:30 AM
Annorax is pronounced with emphasis on the first syllable. I've never heard of an anorak. Judging by them naming a character Annorax, I'm guessing it's not a US thing either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on September 28, 2015, 09:31:10 AM
I guess you Aussies don't call jackets Anoraks ? Is it just a Brit thing ?

I'm guessing that Annorax is pronounced : An - ORR - Acts. Emphasis on the ORR.

Anorak is pronounced AN - or - ak. Just FYI :P

Is THAT where Marillion got Anaraknophobia?    I thought it was just a weird way of spelling "on a rack"....
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on September 28, 2015, 10:54:57 AM


And Jeffrey Combs was fantastic at pretty much everything they gave him.

I can never get enough of him in anything he's in.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 28, 2015, 10:17:13 PM
Phil Morris played in TOS, STIII, DS9x2 and VOY. Not to mention he starred in one of the very best episodes DS9 did as Remata'Klan.

Don't forget the ladies. Worf's jailbait half-Romulan girlfriend came back as Harry Kim's girlfriend in Voyager. Worf's old lady played a Romulan, a Klingon, a Q and an Andorian on 3 different series. Robin Curtis came back to play a Romulan after she was Savvik. Seska played a couple of roles.

There are also some people who had bit parts and were later offered major roles. Marc Alaimo's neck got him a return gig to be Dukat after he'd played four different characters on TNG. Solome Jens was in TNG before becoming the female founder.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 28, 2015, 10:25:33 PM
Yep, if we were naming every repeat actor, we'd be here all day. :lol I'm not as well versed on the TNG ones as I haven't watched those as many times or as recently, but one that comes to mind is James Cromwell who had several roles before playing Zephram Cochrane in FC. There are also many people who played endless faceless minor characters in make-up, with none of real note.

Marc Alaimohas always been THE Cardassian to me. I believe they actually designed that neck piece because of Alaimo's neck. No other Cardassian quite looks as good. Kurtwood Smith looked downright funny.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 29, 2015, 09:44:37 AM
And we can't talk about guest stars on Star Trek without of course talking about Majel Barrett .

She was a regular on TOS. Lwaxana Troi on TNG and the voices of all the ships from TNG onwards til Star Trek (2009).

I don't know if she ever starred in VOY, DS9 Or Enterprise though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 29, 2015, 09:54:04 AM
And we can't talk about guest stars on Star Trek without of course talking about Majel Barrett .

She was a regular on TOS. Lwaxana Troi on TNG and the voices of all the ships from TNG onwards til Star Trek (2009).

I don't know if she ever starred in VOY, DS9 Or Enterprise though.

She reprised her role of Lwaxanna in a few episodes of DS9. She didn't appear in Voyager or Enterprise, aside from voicing Voyager's computer as with the Enterprise. So nothing really additional to what you've mentioned.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 29, 2015, 09:59:25 AM
But fair do. Apart from Into Darkness ( inb4 good job too ) - she was in pretty much everything Star Trek from 1966 - 2009.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 29, 2015, 10:09:58 AM
The only person whose Star Trek career has spanned a longer period is Leonard Nimoy, who also managed Into Darkness before passing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 29, 2015, 10:15:29 AM
Majel was also the original first officer (presumably) in the original TOS pilot.  She is only ever addressed as "Number One".

(https://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/articles/bf4e50b8a18f616a8bd327450876d29a9bb06d7f.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 29, 2015, 10:59:35 AM
The only person whose Star Trek career has spanned a longer period is Leonard Nimoy, who also managed Into Darkness before passing.

Yeah he was in the first ever trek and the most recent thing too.

Plus Spock was in TNG and two more movies than Shatner. I also don't know if Spock cropped up in any TNG spin off series.



EDIT :  I Hope Star Trek Beyond has a tribute to Nimoy. They could say Spock Prime has passed on and have a big Vulcan funeral for Spock Prime which could also double as a farewell to Nimoy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 29, 2015, 09:29:46 PM
The only person whose Star Trek career has spanned a longer period is Leonard Nimoy, who also managed Into Darkness before passing.

Yeah he was in the first ever trek and the most recent thing too.

Plus Spock was in TNG and two more movies than Shatner. I also don't know if Spock cropped up in any TNG spin off series.



EDIT :  I Hope Star Trek Beyond has a tribute to Nimoy. They could say Spock Prime has passed on and have a big Vulcan funeral for Spock Prime which could also double as a farewell to Nimoy.

Spock never appeared in the series after Unification. Even though Shatner wasn't in The Cage, he could still cover a longer span if he were to appear in another movie (so could Takei and Nichols). If we're playing a pure numbers game though, I believe Michael Dorn wins most appearances for his run in both TNG and DS9, plus 4 TNG movies + 1 TOS movie.

I wouldn't be surprised if Star Trek Beyond has a tribute to Nimoy, although they should mention Grace Lee Whitney too. I expect they'll work in some reference to Spock's passing, although I'm not sure about a funeral. It could come across as a bit tacky anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 30, 2015, 01:36:34 PM
https://trekmovie.com/2015/09/30/star-trek-beyond-begins-next-phase-of-filming-with-press-conference-in-dubai/

They're there to begin filming in Dubai.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 15, 2015, 12:03:49 PM
Principal Photography wraps tomorrow :o

I am hoping for a teaser trailer around Christmas time...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on October 15, 2015, 12:45:16 PM
I enjoyed them.  I'm not hung up on having to be the "Star Trek" way.  That will happen again with a TV series......


I hope.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 15, 2015, 03:49:38 PM
Principal Photography wraps tomorrow :o

I am hoping for a teaser trailer around Christmas time...
Seems a little quick.

But we'll see.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 15, 2015, 03:59:31 PM
Not really. They started filming in June. Sounds about right...

That's just Photography. No CGI or anything.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 16, 2015, 01:56:16 AM
Yeah, that timing isn't too quick.


Especially since 50% of the movie will just be CGI'd space explosions anyway. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 16, 2015, 09:37:11 AM
:neverusethis: O U




I don't know why - but I have a feeling like "Beyond" will be the best of the three. At least as good as the first one. I think Simon will realise the problems with the last one.

No Orci & Kurtzman or Damon Lindelof writing...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 16, 2015, 08:05:24 PM
I'd like to think it couldn't be worse than the last one, but Hollywood always finds new ways to disappoint.

And the first one was about as good as I expect from modern Hollywood, so I wouldn't set the bar that high.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 18, 2015, 09:05:11 AM
Here's something I realised :


The thing on The Next Generation which doesn't make sense is - having designated Transporter "rooms" when the site-to-site transporter exists. Which can pick you up from anywhere on the ship and

transport you anywhere else on the ship or down to the planet and vice-versa.

They even say " x amount of people to transport directly to y " .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 18, 2015, 09:15:25 AM
I've thought about that before, and it does seem silly at times to go to the transporter room when they don't need to.

There are reasons for having the designated transporter room though. First of all, it still contains all of the specific components of the transporter system itself, and they have the specialized transporter controls and someone qualified to operate the transporter system, in cases of difficult or unknown conditions etc.

As for why people need to go to the transporter room to transport off the ship, it's probably easier because it's the area designed for the transporter beam, so there's no messing around with locating people and objects and making sure they're ready and not moving, and you're not transporting anything you're not supposed to, or making any mistakes where you transport part of something. It's easier to have everyone and everything there in front of you where you can visually check they're in place and verbally tell people what to do.

And a site to site transport might use more power, since you have to transport them from one distant location to the transporter buffer, then transport them to another distant location. Having them right over the transporter when de-materializing may use less power.

And also, formality, procedure, and habit.

That said, I'm sure there are numerous instances where they go to the transporter room when it would be more appropriate to do a site to site transport.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 18, 2015, 09:43:23 AM
Plus I thought that they built the set....Latterly introduced site-to-site... Went " Oops..." then just used Transpo bay anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on October 18, 2015, 12:01:36 PM
Originally intra-ship beaming was considered too dangerous. It was reserved for emergencies. It still seems to be used mostly for medical emergencies or when expediency is most important.

From a practical standpoint it also makes sense to have the room be the rally point. If you've got 8 people beaming down they can ll meet up and get their shit together. Otherwise you've got O'Brien having to get A from his quarters, B from the bridge, C from out of the shower, D from engineering, etc. Then he has to take 8 people from different locations and set them down in some semblance of order and not scattered about on planet in locations relative to where they originated on the ship.


One thing that I don't think was ever established was whether the computer handled those transports of if there's somebody in the transporter room ready to beam ever person on the ship somewhere at a moment's notice. That would be important so that if something goes wrong there's a person at point able to handle the situation.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 18, 2015, 09:14:28 PM
One thing that I don't think was ever established was whether the computer handled those transports of if there's somebody in the transporter room ready to beam ever person on the ship somewhere at a moment's notice. That would be important so that if something goes wrong there's a person at point able to handle the situation.

Being Trek, I'm sure it involved some unnecessarily long manual process that nobody ever thought to automate and had to run through a long chain of command for no reason instead of being as simple as future tech could make it.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on October 19, 2015, 01:12:49 AM
Just in case this is unknown to some... for more information about the transporter room read this: :)
https://chiefobrienatwork.com/ (https://chiefobrienatwork.com/)

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 19, 2015, 06:06:28 AM
I'm sure Miles didn't just stand there for 8 hours a day in case someone needed a transport. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ZirconBlue on October 19, 2015, 12:14:40 PM
Why do they have 3 separate slider controls on the transporter, when they always move all 3 together?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 19, 2015, 12:29:20 PM
Why do they have 3 separate slider controls on the transporter, when they always move all 3 together?

No idea. The only reason for TNG is because they did it on TOS.

The Transpo Pad on TNG is actually the one from TOS upside down.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 19, 2015, 02:15:52 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRtLe3yWcAAZ3-d.jpg:large)




I must have missed this obviously direct to TV movie :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 19, 2015, 04:42:20 PM
Just think of all the stuff that featured on Star Trek in the 60s and 80s that we now take for granted...
 
Automatic Doors, Video Conferencing, portable communicators, touchscreen personal "Pads"...

One thing i'd never use in a million years is a Transporter. It might be like in The Prestige where it merely copies you and destroys the original.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on October 20, 2015, 02:29:21 AM
You could sell your transporter copies on DTF, I'm sure there are quite a few users who would like to kill you a little, even if it's just a clone. :biggrin:

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 20, 2015, 05:16:15 AM
Nah i'll just set up loads and loads of accounts here on DTF !!

Kotowboy1 - Star Wars sucks !!!

Kotowboy2 - BUY ALL MY THINGS

Kotowboy3 - Hey Blob Y U never go outside ? :neverusethis:



Strike me down and two more will spring up in my place!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 20, 2015, 05:42:47 AM
The thought of multiple Kotowboys is almost as scary as the thought of multiple BlobVanDams.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 20, 2015, 05:48:07 AM
We should start our own forum.

Blob And Ko

:rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on October 20, 2015, 05:51:13 AM
There were no survivors.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on October 20, 2015, 05:51:36 AM
Or any other members :neverusethis:
Title: The United Threaderation of Planets V. New Star Trek Series Confirmed!!!
Post by: Kotowboy on November 02, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Mods can merge this if they want but I thought we needed a new Star Trek thread.

https://www.startrek.com/article/new-star-trek-series-premieres-january-2017

Good news : New tv show.

Less good news : It's produced by Alex Kurtzman.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 02, 2015, 09:30:42 AM
New ‘Star Trek’ TV Series in the Works at CBS All Access  (https://www.slashfilm.com/star-trek-tv-series/)

New Star Trek on TV?  Yay!

On CBS All Access?  Boo!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 02, 2015, 09:34:25 AM
I guess you can delete my thread then :emo:


Hoping this TV show will feel as fresh as TNG did back in the day and not as stale and worn out as Voyager and Enterprise which had beaten a formula to absolute death.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 02, 2015, 09:38:49 AM
New ‘Star Trek’ TV Series in the Works at CBS All Access  (https://www.slashfilm.com/star-trek-tv-series/)

New Star Trek on TV?  Yay!

On CBS All Access?  Boo!

New Star Trek show? Yay!

Alex Kurtzman? Fuck right off and die in a fire we'd be better off with nothing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 02, 2015, 09:41:58 AM
Yes  but he's only the producer. He's not writing it or directing it.

However - I have seen some of his directorial work and it was *fine*.
Title: Re: The United Threaderation of Planets V. New Star Trek Series Confirmed!!!
Post by: kaos2900 on November 02, 2015, 11:07:00 AM
It's about time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on November 02, 2015, 11:13:24 AM
What are Kurtzman's crimes?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 02, 2015, 11:55:51 AM
What are Kurtzman's crimes?

He co-wrote and co-produced Star Trek (2009) and Star Trek Into Darkness and is responsible for Cowboys & Aliens and the Transformers movies.


See Here : https://www.boxofficemojo.com/people/chart/?view=Writer&id=alexkurtzman.htm

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on November 02, 2015, 12:26:00 PM
He was also involved in Fringe and that was amazing. Limitless has been interesting so far too. Maybe he will do better in a tv format. At this point, I would take any ST tv show, even a more generic action-y one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 02, 2015, 01:29:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dx0lCop.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: kaos2900 on November 03, 2015, 06:54:01 AM
So after thinking about this again, the fact that the new show won't be on TV but only available on their streaming service is 100% bullshit. It's pretty clear that this is not about Star Trek but about making money. I'll pass. CBS can go suck some balls.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 03, 2015, 09:07:30 AM
There's too much history covered in Enterprise and TOS - VOY for it to be set in the same time period.

I think either they set it WAY in the future on like " Enterprise NCC 1701 X " or something.


OR

Do the Voyager thing but better - have it set in Omega Quadrant or something which is like 5000 light years from Earth.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 03, 2015, 09:11:09 AM
It will be new universe, maybe TNG type era so it doesn't interfere with the movies, or maybe they don't care and will have it parallel.

I'd actually prefer it be the new universe at this point, so it doesn't taint the original timeline. That way I can pretend that all Star Trek post-2005 is just a terrible nightmare.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 03, 2015, 09:29:53 AM
Star Trek (2009) is fine.  :-\

I actually prefer it to Nemesis & Insurrection but there we go.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 03, 2015, 09:31:51 AM
Star Trek 2009 is fine, for a Hollywood scifi action movie. As a part of the Star Trek universe, it's pretty empty and dumb. I prefer it to Nemesis too, but that's because Nemesis was terrible. I don't want a series that is as equally empty and dumb as the new movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 03, 2015, 03:28:48 PM
Star Trek 2009 is fine, for a Hollywood scifi action movie. As a part of the Star Trek universe, it's pretty empty and dumb. I prefer it to Nemesis too, but that's because Nemesis was terrible. I don't want a series that is as equally empty and dumb as the new movies.

So blondes = ST 2009.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 10, 2015, 04:43:37 PM
" There's a couple of movies i've done where I wasn't completely happy with the script when we started filming. One was Super 8 and the other was Into Darkness. "

- JJ Abrams.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on November 11, 2015, 03:55:58 AM
Showrunner nomination for future Trek: Wil Wheaton!

He is a fan, he knows the fans, he knows the data and the lore (:biggrin:), he's just the nerd for the job.
His character might not have been overly popular but I would like to think many fans would accept him in that role.
For me it would definitely be like "Shut up Wesley and take my money!" :lol

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 11, 2015, 04:13:48 AM
Does he actually have any experience making shows? All I associate him with now is occasionally appearing on that faux nerd sitcom. No thanks.

I've said it before, but I'd love Simon Barry (Continuum) to be involved, although I think he's got a new project he's working on. He's one of the few people around who really understands what scifi and classic Trek is supposed to be, the polar opposite of hacks like JJ and co.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 11, 2015, 06:44:59 AM
That would be interesting Blob and I wouldn't call JJ a hack at all.  He's had huge TV shows and movies.  How about Josh Whedon?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 11, 2015, 06:47:16 AM
That would be interesting Blob and I wouldn't call JJ a hack at all.  He's had huge TV shows and movies.  How about Josh Whedon?

Nope. JJ is a great director.

And yes - The Big Bang Theory is genuinely awful.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 11, 2015, 06:47:17 AM
That would be interesting Blob and I wouldn't call JJ a hack at all.  He's had huge TV shows and movies. 

Get back to me once he's actually had a good one. :biggrin:

Joss Whedon might work, although isn't he more into films lately?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 11, 2015, 06:51:09 AM
I'm a little excited that Star Trek Beyond is now listed as in " Post Production " on Wikipedia.

:) I really hope we get a teaser soon.

Something like  This Teaser  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ9lbE6ldsc)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 11, 2015, 06:52:09 AM
He is but those guys always have their hands into everything.

and JJ

Fringe
Alias
Lost

I love, love, loved Fringe.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 11, 2015, 06:53:40 AM
Never seen Fringe but Ricky Gervais was in one episode and that put me off it  :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 11, 2015, 06:59:46 AM
He is but those guys always have their hands into everything.

and JJ

Fringe
Alias
Lost

I love, love, loved Fringe.

I recall someone telling me he didn't have much to do with running Fringe after creating it? I don't know, I haven't seen it yet. Alias was run of the mill stuff, and Lost is one of the worst things to happen to television this century. It encouraged empty mystery over genuine intrigue and plot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on November 11, 2015, 07:02:24 AM
I never watch Lost but it seemed to have a very big following. Fringe was my thing and it was great.  Again the last season was rushed with only 13 episodes but that's what happens when the big wigs down allow a show to finish a story arch.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on November 11, 2015, 11:39:17 AM
Fringe was awesome.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on November 13, 2015, 12:50:49 AM
I remember reading somewhere that JJ wasn't involved in Lost after the pilot episode. It was all Damon Lindelof after that. So judging him by that show probably isn't fair.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 13, 2015, 02:54:54 AM
And according to a Damon Lindelof interview with Adam Savage - they had the arc of the show all planned out but the show was so popular the network demanded more seasons -

- which is why there is so much padding in the middle.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on November 14, 2015, 03:28:50 AM
And according to a Damon Lindelof interview with Adam Savage - they had the arc of the show all planned out but the show was so popular the network demanded more seasons -

- which is why there is so much padding in the middle.

If that's true then I need to amend my statement. Anyone involved in the making that horrible ending deserves any and all of the shit that they get. The "padding in the middle" also gave them more than enough opportunities to answer many of the questions that were raised early in the show, but (as far as I can remember) they never really did.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 15, 2015, 12:14:50 PM
I think it's interesting that ( Relics aside ) they never really mentioned Jim Kirk at all in The Next Gen.

I can't recall them even mentioning him in Unification apart from " you remind me of a previous Captain ".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 15, 2015, 05:25:07 PM
In the first season, there's a really bad TNG episode called "The Naked Now" which is tied to "The Naked Time" from TOS.  That's the episode where Yar jumps Data.  Anyway, I believe somebody on Enterprise D mentions that the wacky malady they're currently fighting was encountered once by the original Enterprise, and James T. Kirk was the captain.  They read it in a log.  I'm pretty sure they mention him by name.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 15, 2015, 06:24:20 PM
In the first season, there's a really bad TNG episode called "The Naked Now" which is tied to "The Naked Time" from TOS.  That's the episode where Yar jumps Data.  Anyway, I believe somebody on Enterprise D mentions that the wacky malady they're currently fighting was encountered once by the original Enterprise, and James T. Kirk was the captain.  They read it in a log.  I'm pretty sure they mention him by name.
If I'm not mistaken that episode had one of their After School Special moments with Wesley about the evils of drink. There were several during the first season and as much as they disgust me it's surprising I kept watching for the second season.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 15, 2015, 06:50:08 PM
I think it's interesting that ( Relics aside ) they never really mentioned Jim Kirk at all in The Next Gen.

I can't recall them even mentioning him in Unification apart from " you remind me of a previous Captain ".

I think that was a good thing. First of all, you don't want your new show mooching off the old show, you want it to be its own thing. Secondly, it makes the universe feel smaller to keep mentioning the one crew we've already seen, when there was also an Enterprise B and C with their own captains, and other ships and events. I never liked the thought of them raving about Kirk & co.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on November 15, 2015, 08:42:32 PM
I don't like the thought of them raving, but Kirk and Company were on the original flagship in the early days of the Federation.  It makes sense that their missions and encounters were groundbreaking and thus would be studied by future officers in training.  At the very least, they would come up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 15, 2015, 09:31:43 PM
I agree, I meant mentioning them too much, say more so than other theoretical crews. There were a few more mentions in the later series, and they were never overdone, and TNG did include cameos by Bones, Spock, and Scotty, so it's not like TOS was ignored.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on November 16, 2015, 07:04:14 PM
I think it's interesting that ( Relics aside ) they never really mentioned Jim Kirk at all in The Next Gen.

I can't recall them even mentioning him in Unification apart from " you remind me of a previous Captain ".

I think that was a good thing. First of all, you don't want your new show mooching off the old show, you want it to be its own thing. Secondly, it makes the universe feel smaller to keep mentioning the one crew we've already seen, when there was also an Enterprise B and C with their own captains, and other ships and events. I never liked the thought of them raving about Kirk & co.
Well, they did set the show on the Enterprise and parade McCoy's geriatric ass around in the opening 5 minutes of the series.  :lol

The other series certainly did show due respect for the original TOS guys (even if it was in their snooty, holier than thou demeanor). Sisko was certainly an admirer, as was O'Brian, Dax wanted to nail Spock, and did nail McCoy. Janeway expressed some admiration, but only in a condescending sort of way. Spock was the highly regarded elder statesman. McCoy was mentioned alongside Henry Gray as one of the pioneers of medicine. Scott was the legendary miracle worker. After TNG they did a fine job of recognizing the significance of the past. The Roddenberry era just wouldn't accommodate having flawed, human characters in the fantasy-land of TNG animatronics.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on November 16, 2015, 08:10:04 PM
Roddenberry was too strict with his utopian ideas of perfection, but I never had a problem with the later series (or most of TNG either), or how they represented TOS. I think their view was too generous if anything, given how utterly antiquated TOS's way of thinking was even by that point. :lol

I think DS9 in particular did a great job breaking away from that. Earth was a utopia on the surface, but all of the outlying human colonies were pretty bitter and neglected, and because there were so many alien races coexisting on DS9, there was plenty of conflict between characters with differing ideas.

I'd like to see a new Trek series be a bit more hard hitting where a lot of these topics are concerned, that they kind of glossed over or only dealt with on their typical allegorical level most of the time, but I don't expect it with who's in charge of the upcoming series. It will probably be some faux gritty drama with a lot of action and some surface level comparisons to terrorism to make it feel relevant to Joe Average.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on November 19, 2015, 05:30:21 PM
https://trekcore.com/blog/2015/11/justin-lin-star-trek-beyond-trailer-coming-soon/

:dangerwillrobinson:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on November 27, 2015, 02:57:34 AM
Imagine Spock revealing he has a kid.
McCoy looking at Kirk, quite surprised:
"He's dad, Jim!"

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 01, 2015, 08:48:08 AM
I watched Chaos on the Bridge, William Shatner's documentary on the creation of ST:TNG. 

Riveting.  Very enjoyable.  I highly recommend it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2015, 01:54:52 PM
I've never heard of this.  It sounds interesting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 01, 2015, 02:21:34 PM
I've never heard of this.  It sounds interesting.
It was on Netflix.  I think it was done in 2014, so it's fairly recent.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2015, 03:15:25 PM
That makes it... weirder somehow.  Why make a documentary now (or last year) about the launch of a show nearly 30 years ago?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 02, 2015, 07:48:06 AM
That makes it... weirder somehow.  Why make a documentary now (or last year) about the launch of a show nearly 30 years ago?
Because now there is more perspective on it, and the impact the show had.

Also, some people are now dead, so the "survivors" are more free to talk about them, I suppose.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 02, 2015, 08:19:44 AM
I just watched it and I'd say it was about what I was expecting.

Most of the drama was from the studio and not really between the actors on the show.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 02, 2015, 11:04:51 AM
For sure.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on December 04, 2015, 12:46:58 PM
#spockingfives (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpockingFives?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

Quote
Bank of Canada is pleading with Star Trek fans to stop “Spocking” its five dollar bills. Since Leonard Nimoy’s death, Canadian folks have been “Spocking” the hell out of the five dollar bill that features a portrait of Canada’s seventh prime minister Sir Wilfrid Laurier.

Sir Wilfrid now sports, on certain bills at least, pointy ears, the signature Vulcan haircut and eyebrows and Spock’s mantra “Live long and prosper.”

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 04, 2015, 01:27:56 PM
Fucking Canadians.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 04:56:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYz13vgX0U0

:trainwreck:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on December 14, 2015, 05:14:10 AM
WTH?  Was that in fast forward or something?  No clip was there longer than 2 seconds.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 05:32:24 AM
Do you think they could go a movie without destroying the Enterprise? It's kind of losing impact. :lol
Apparently the legit debut of the trailer is with the new Star Wars? Maybe in English I'll have some chance of figuring out what's happening inbetween the explosions.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Polarbear on December 14, 2015, 05:33:04 AM
It looks exactly what i thought a Justin Lin directed Star Trek movie, would look like.

Best case scenario: it will be a fun action movie like First Contact.
Worst case scenario: It will be a trainwreck like Nemesis, and destroy the franchise again.

But that motorcycle stunt just looks dumb!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 05:49:14 AM
There's just something about seeing a dirt bike in Star Trek that takes me way out of the moment.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on December 14, 2015, 06:02:26 AM
There's just something about seeing a dirt bike in Star Trek that takes me way out of the moment.

Agreed on both posts.  I failed to see the need for the vintage car scene with a young Kirk from the first movie completely unnecessary and stupid - especially laughable with the Nokia infotainment screen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 06:04:41 AM
I was going to mention that very moment too. There was also the sand dune scene in Nemesis with that vehicle, which I was sorta ok with despite how jarring the idea was.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 06:14:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYz13vgX0U0

:trainwreck:

I'm pretty sure that's not even finished. There's bluescreen visible.

I can wait for an official trailer before making my mind up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 06:18:13 AM
Bluescreen where? I think it's a finished teaser for the movie, but the colour's shit (no reds), probably due to being a leak. The effects are the least of my worries anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 07:11:00 AM
A split second after the close up of Kirk firing a phaser there's a fight scene and a window.

It looks to me like blue screen.

Plus it doesn't look finished to me at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 07:13:11 AM
Damn, it's been blocked so I can't check it back now, but I think it was just the shitty quality of the trailer.
Either way, the effects were of no concern to me, it was the mindless everything happening in every shot that sinks my hopes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 08:48:04 AM
I found another one and I still think it's bluescreen.

Plus why is the music so quiet and everything else much much louder ?

I'm thinking someone has gotten hold of some unfinished footage and thrown something together ...

Or it's going to be the Jurassic World scenario where the final film has vastly different scenes / CGI etc.

It's not uncommon for teaser trailers to have work in progress shots.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 09:18:09 AM
Paramount Caved.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRVD32rnzOw


Let the bitching commence.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 09:25:01 AM
So they lose the Enterprise entirely during the movie? I guess they're pulling a Search for Spock with this one to carry on the pattern. :neverusethis:

From this trailer, I'm expecting more of the same empty rubbish. I'm not seeing anything fresh or exciting here, just generic aliens on a generic alien planet with motorcycles, string it together with as many explosions as the budget will allow.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 09:30:11 AM
One down. El Barto is up next.

So they lose the Enterprise entirely during the movie? I guess they're pulling a Search for Spock with this one to carry on the pattern. :neverusethis:

I actually hope they reveal a totally new Enterprise at the end - closer to the Motion Picture refit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 09:36:37 AM
If they unveil another Enterprise, it's going to be the same but twice as big with Cadillac fins on the nacelles, and with speed stripes down the side, and green neons under the secondary hull, and a nitrous button, and it's going to space drift against a Klingon Bird of Prey in the neutral zone, and then at the end the Klingon leader will have so much respect for Kirk's mad skillz that they'll sign the Khitomer accord together and make history.

At least 50% of this will probably actually happen.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 14, 2015, 09:40:43 AM
That trailer looked fucking awful.

And "Sabotage" in a Star Trek film?  Really?  WTF

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 09:41:42 AM
That trailer looked fucking awful.

And "Sabotage" in a Star Trek film?  Really?  WTF

Because we never listen to 300 year old music now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 09:45:11 AM
That trailer looked fucking awful.

And "Sabotage" in a Star Trek film?  Really?  WTF



Is that the song? (never heard of it)
That would be in line with the current music used in the other new Trek movies, like again, the car scene in ST11. It will go well with the motorbike racing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 09:47:00 AM
It's the same song from the first one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 09:47:46 AM
I'll be optimistic and hope it's just for the trailer. That's not uncommon.
Oh wait, but Kirk and Scotty were talking about the music.
Fuck.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on December 14, 2015, 09:49:56 AM
That trailer looked fucking awful.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 09:51:25 AM
They also couldn't have picked a worse time to debut a trailer for such a mediocre looking space action movie.......
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 14, 2015, 09:58:34 AM
That trailer looked fucking awful.

And "Sabotage" in a Star Trek film?  Really?  WTF
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 10:01:02 AM
That trailer looked fucking awful.

And "Sabotage" in a Star Trek film?  Really?  WTF

Because we never listen to 300 year old music now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 14, 2015, 10:02:23 AM
That trailer looked fucking awful.

And "Sabotage" in a Star Trek film?  Really?  WTF

Because we never listen to 300 year old music now.
We listen to Bach and Beethoven now.

Not the same thing, and you know it.  Give me a fucking break.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 10:42:01 AM
 ::) Yes Master.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 14, 2015, 11:36:50 AM
One down. El Barto is up next.
Not really necessary. You know as well as the rest of us that looks absolutely awful.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 14, 2015, 11:43:47 AM
I don't always check out AintItCoolNews anymore, but there are some lol-worthy comments there.

Star Trek: Beyond Recognition

Like poor marksmen they keep...MISSING...THE...Target!!

PARAMOUNT, YOU BLOODSUCKER!

They are indeed laughing at the superior intellect.

My God, Bones. What have they done?

Their pattern suggests two dimensional thinking.

STAR TREK: BEYOND. Good title, as it is beyond me how this is supposed to be Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 12:35:16 PM
One down. El Barto is up next.
Not really necessary. You know as well as the rest of us that looks absolutely awful.

k
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 14, 2015, 12:42:56 PM
Oh hey guys.  Let's do something that's never been done in a Trek film.  Let's destroy the Enterprise!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 12:47:47 PM
Oh hey guys.  Let's do something that's never been done in a Trek film.  Let's destroy the Enterprise!

Yeah that's only been done... Ooh let's see.

Motion picture - nope
Khan - nope
Spock - yes
Voyage - nope
Frontier - nope
Country - nope
Generations - yep
Contact - nope
Insurrection - nope
Nemesis - nope (damaged yes )

2009 - nope
Into Darkness nope - damaged yes


Wow. Every film !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 14, 2015, 01:15:41 PM
You're right, you totally invalidated my comment.

Oh wait, no you didn't.

It's been done.  More than once.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 01:16:35 PM
You're right, you totally invalidated my comment.

Oh wait, no you didn't.

It's been done.  More than once.


Twice before in 50 years.

WOW THEYRE SO OUT OF IDEAS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 01:19:12 PM
Oh for fucks sake i just noticed the Enterprise is IN SPACE in that trailer.


Jesus fucking christ can they not do anything original ? ::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on December 14, 2015, 01:31:01 PM
That trailer looked fucking awful.


Roddenberry's corpse is once again sobbing profusely.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 01:34:11 PM
The Fake Outrage is strong in this thread.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on December 14, 2015, 01:40:57 PM
The Fake Outrage is strong in this thread.

Nothing in that trailer looked remotely like the series Roddenberry created. You disagree on that point?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 01:44:53 PM
Yeah fuck it. The movies should look like they cost £40 and use cardboard sets and foggy lenses on all the female characters and over dramatic acting with massive close ups.

The TV show still exists. Why not watch that :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on December 14, 2015, 01:55:49 PM
Where have you guys been? Sabotage was in the first 20 min of the first reboot!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 14, 2015, 02:01:25 PM
The Fake Outrage is strong in this thread.
You do realize that every singe one of us would be thrilled if the new movie was an actual Star Trek movie and not just TFatF, right? Nobody here is outraged. We were all expecting this. We're, at most, disappointed that the trailer confirmed what we all hoped wouldn't be the case. There's a very valid criticism of what they're calling Star Trek now that damn near everybody here shares, and which we've all discussed ad nauseum in this thread. You either don't share it, or don't mind it, which is great. Glad you enjoy these movies. There are parts of them that I enjoy, albeit in a different context. Not sure why you need to be so God damned pissy about nobody else being on the bandwagon.

Personally, I miss the days when the Star Trek thread was about discussing Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 02:10:43 PM
I watched the trailer closely and there was literally nothing in it that SCREAMED "Fast & Furious Director"

Um...what about the bike jump ?

Kirk drove a car off a cliff in 2009.

People are just jumping on whatever bandwagons they can.

If this film was directed by Edgar Wright - everyone would be going " LOL Shaun of the Trek - where's all the zombies omfg  lol "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 02:12:30 PM
Not sure why you need to be so God damned pissy about nobody else being on the bandwagon.

::) Right. it's more like - I say I'm excited about the new movies and I enjoy them and everyone has a heart attack and jumps on me for not sharing THEIR opinion.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 02:13:09 PM
That trailer looked fucking awful.

And "Sabotage" in a Star Trek film?  Really?  WTF

Because we never listen to 300 year old music now.

Not the same thing, and you know it.  Give me a fucking break.


Example.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 14, 2015, 02:23:22 PM
and everyone has a heart attack and jumps on me for not sharing THEIR opinion.
No, we all shit on the movie for looking like a generic explosionfest. I seriously doubt anybody objects to you liking such a thing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 02:26:46 PM
 :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 14, 2015, 02:29:06 PM
 :lol

Hey I enjoy the 2 movie so far. I'd much rather see the old Trek style in  a 24 arch season on a TV show personally.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 14, 2015, 02:46:52 PM
I'm not gonna trash Beyond until i've seen it.

See you back here on June 23.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Implode on December 14, 2015, 06:08:47 PM
Not really a huge Star Trek fan, but came in here to say I'm so sorry. Star Trek doesn't deserve to be lowered to the tier of "shitty summer action movie everyone will forget about in 4 months." I know it's just a trailer and maybe the movie will be different, but honestly that's exactly what this trailer is marketing this movie as.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 07:55:03 PM
I don't always check out AintItCoolNews anymore, but there are some lol-worthy comments there.

Star Trek: Beyond Recognition

Like poor marksmen they keep...MISSING...THE...Target!!

PARAMOUNT, YOU BLOODSUCKER!

They are indeed laughing at the superior intellect.

My God, Bones. What have they done?

Their pattern suggests two dimensional thinking.

STAR TREK: BEYOND. Good title, as it is beyond me how this is supposed to be Star Trek.

:lol Great references.

Not really a huge Star Trek fan, but came in here to say I'm so sorry. Star Trek doesn't deserve to be lowered to the tier of "shitty summer action movie everyone will forget about in 4 months." I know it's just a trailer and maybe the movie will be different, but honestly that's exactly what this trailer is marketing this movie as.

 :'(
Compare that to Star Wars, which has established so much goodwill since the start, and has built such amazing hype with the trailers, it just makes Star Trek look like a second rate hack job franchise. And now we can look forward to a TV show of the same empty crap too......

From this trailer, the absolute best I can hope for is to be able to sit through the movie without leaving.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 14, 2015, 09:04:44 PM
From this trailer, the absolute best I can hope for is to be able to sit through the movie without leaving.
Whoa, you're actually going to spend seventeen of those kangaroo dollars to see this thing?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 09:06:30 PM
From this trailer, the absolute best I can hope for is to be able to sit through the movie without leaving.
Whoa, you're actually going to spend seventeen of those kangaroo dollars to see this thing?

No.

It's actually about 20 dollary-doos. :biggrin:

As awful as it's going to be, I'm obligated to see it. I know, I know, I'm part of the problem.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Implode on December 14, 2015, 10:00:16 PM
Compare that to Star Wars, which has established so much goodwill since the start, and has built such amazing hype with the trailers, it just makes Star Trek look like a second rate hack job franchise.

To be fair, Star Wars had its second rate hack job prequel trilogy. And on top of that, Disney plans on releasing a Star Wars movie every single year for the foreseeable future. There is still plenty of time to run that series into the ground as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 14, 2015, 11:38:25 PM
Compare that to Star Wars, which has established so much goodwill since the start, and has built such amazing hype with the trailers, it just makes Star Trek look like a second rate hack job franchise.

To be fair, Star Wars had its second rate hack job prequel trilogy. And on top of that, Disney plans on releasing a Star Wars movie every single year for the foreseeable future. There is still plenty of time to run that series into the ground as well.

True on all counts! I'm only speaking for this current point in time.
With a Star Wars movie every year, they'll need to maintain high quality to avoid franchise fatigue. So far I think the future of Star Wars is looking good, although again to be fair, we haven't seen the movie yet, or had time to let it sink in (Episode 1 wasn't even that hated right away). Between Star Trek: Beyond and the recently announced series, the future of Trek is currently looking pretty bleak to me. Obviously I'll give it all a chance, although the previous two movies have established a low standard.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on December 15, 2015, 07:01:26 AM
Kotowboy takes on the Threaderation thread

 :corn

Ya know, I'd like to see an exchange between mrrct and Kotow.  It would be reminiscent of Data vs Hutch in Starship Mine (but instead of small talk, it would be taking offense and getting uber defensive for no logical reason).   :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 15, 2015, 08:03:43 AM
and everyone has a heart attack and jumps on me for not sharing THEIR opinion.
No, we all shit on the movie for looking like a generic explosionfest. I seriously doubt anybody objects to you liking such a thing.
Exactly.  Enjoy it if you can. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 15, 2015, 08:05:29 AM
I plan to.

And If I don't like it - then i'll say so.

But unlike everyone else - i'm not gonna watch 90 seconds out of context 8 months from release date and decide it's fucking shit and not go see it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 15, 2015, 08:07:58 AM
I plan to.

And If I don't like it - then i'll say so.

But unlike everyone else - i'm not gonna watch 90 seconds out of context 8 months from release date and decide it's fucking shit and not go see it.
We saw 90 seconds of crap in the context of having seen the two films prior. 

But you're right, you are obviously the only one whose opinion is valid.  THE ENTIRE REST OF THE THREAD is obviously wrong.

Have fun with it.  I hope you like it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 15, 2015, 08:09:19 AM
:lol :lol :lol you guys are hilarious.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 15, 2015, 08:15:07 AM
Not sure why you need to be so God damned pissy about nobody else being on the bandwagon.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 15, 2015, 08:15:34 AM
We saw 90 seconds of crap in the context of having seen the two films prior. 

Bingo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 15, 2015, 08:15:57 AM
Checking in late. That looked awful.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 15, 2015, 08:16:32 AM
Not sure why you need to be so God damned pissy about nobody else being on the bandwagon.

:rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 15, 2015, 09:24:28 AM
Oh you guys.

I'm a long-time Trek fan, grew up with TOS, etc., etc., and I finally checked out the trailer that y'all are whining about.  I thought it looked kinda cool.  Yep, it's another explosionfest generic action-thriller summer blockbuster eye candy switch off your brain and just watch it kinda thing, but given that, I thought it looked kinda cool.  Karl Urban is perfect as bones.  The rest of them... whatever.  The white chick looked kinda hot, too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 15, 2015, 09:41:40 AM
I think it looks like entertaining fun.

No Star Trek movie has been "proper" Star Trek since 1991 anyways so...

They're not gonna make The Motion Picture again. We'll never get a slow moving deep intellectual movie like that when they spend $200m on it.

That's just the way it is.

As i've said before - i go to the cinema and pay £10 - £15 to have fun and be entertained.

I don't go to watch Waiting For Godot The Movie.

It is possible to enjoy a movie despite all the flaws.

Like Into Darkness - yes the plot is flimsy and the ending is tacked on and it borrows from a previous movie but I Like It Anyway.

I don't know why people get so *angry* that not everyone hates what they hate.



Also - try telling me that the 4 TNG movies would look vastly different to this if they all had a $200m budget.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Implode on December 15, 2015, 09:58:57 AM
I don't know why people get so *angry* that not everyone hates what they hate.

I don't think anyone is angry here that you like it; at least I'm not. You can like and enjoy any movie you want; that's fine. Based on my own past experiences and tastes, the trailer to this movie makes it look like something that might be a little enjoyable at times, but over all would be a boring experience and also one that I'd forget about a week later. I think that's majorly disappointing seeing as how much I enjoyed the 2009 movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 15, 2015, 10:00:07 AM
I'm pretty sure nobody has problems with explosions per se. Almost all of the classic ST movies them. It's when the plot just becomes an action scene delivery vehicle, that's when it sucks.

I can't remember Roddenberry's exact quote, but he said something like that he refused to take the stupidity of the viewers as a given. Star Trek was never a lowest common denominator type of show. The new movies however are.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 15, 2015, 10:01:46 AM
There's a huge of middle ground between plodding boring mess like TMP and ADHD millennial explosion-fest like Into Darkness. See Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. It's a smart movie with subtlety, and yet you also get to see an ape riding a horse through flames while firing two machine guns and fight a tank.

It's possible to make a great movie that appeals to a broad audience without being empty Hollywood garbage. It's also possible to make a fun movie that entertains people without being empty Hollywood garbage. It's also possible to write a movie without gaping plotholes that insult the intelligence and attention span of your audience. There are minor flaws that you can brush off, and there are the kinds of flaws that just make a movie fucking stupid to watch.

But all of this requires a half decent director and a half decent writer, neither of which this movie has.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 15, 2015, 10:07:35 AM
Case in point: Interstellar. Look, one can use relativistic time dilation as a plot element! And soon later you get a neat major CGI fest of skyscraper waves coming at you, but it's fine, because right after you learn that the guy on the orbiting ship has aged 50 years.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Implode on December 15, 2015, 10:17:07 AM
And it works because Nolan likes to be a bit more poetic with his movies, which allows for more suspension of disbelief.

Inception is another great example. It's a really excellent and simple action movie. I think people were just so caught up in it being "deep" because it wasn't stupid.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 15, 2015, 10:28:39 AM
There's a huge of middle ground between plodding boring mess like TMP and ADHD millennial explosion-fest like Into Darkness. See Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. It's a smart movie with subtlety, and yet you also get to see an ape riding a horse through flames while firing two machine guns and fight a tank.

It's possible to make a great movie that appeals to a broad audience without being empty Hollywood garbage. It's also possible to make a fun movie that entertains people without being empty Hollywood garbage. It's also possible to write a movie without gaping plotholes that insult the intelligence and attention span of your audience. There are minor flaws that you can brush off, and there are the kinds of flaws that just make a movie fucking stupid to watch.

But all of this requires a half decent director and a half decent writer, neither of which this movie has.

It also requires the intention to actually make a movie which goes beyond empty Hollywood garbage, which I don't think we have here. 

And that's the whole problem that purists and many long-time fans have.  Star Trek (to them) should be more than empty Hollywood garbage.  They want something that goes beyond that, actually has something to say, actually gives you something to think about for more than five minutes as you're leaving the theater (or taking the DVD out of the machine).  Instead, the primary motivation here is to make a big entertaining movie that makes a lot of money.  There's nothing wrong with that.  But it certainly bothers some people, and we're hearing about it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 15, 2015, 10:46:48 AM
And that's the whole problem that purists and many long-time fans have.  Star Trek (to them) should be more than empty Hollywood garbage.  They want something that goes beyond that, actually has something to say, actually gives you something to think about for more than five minutes as you're leaving the theater (or taking the DVD out of the machine).  Instead, the primary motivation here is to make a big entertaining movie that makes a lot of money.  There's nothing wrong with that.  But it certainly bothers some people, and we're hearing about it.

As pointed out, these are not mutually exclusive goals. One can make a movie that isn't a turdburger of fireworks but still appeals to a general audience. Just because it's entertainment, doesn't mean I should have to voluntarily accept watching complete garbage, and not expect more. Are we really at the point where turning your brain off and not thinking is mandatory to even sit through the shit Hollywood is churning out? That's pathetic. Thinking shouldn't be frowned upon.

Star Trek at its very core is more than this, but it obviously went over the heads of these morons, because this does not resemble Trek. Sure, you can dress people up as the characters, throw in a spaceship, but that's only the surface of Star Trek. This crap would be unrecognizable to Gene Roddenberry.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Implode on December 15, 2015, 10:51:11 AM
Star Trek at its very core is more than this, but it obviously went over the heads of these morons, because this does not resemble Trek.

I wouldn't say they are morons for not understanding Star Trek. They clearly are just trying to make a product that is more likely to make money than a "boring" accurate representation of Star Trek. This kind of movie is safe and doesn't require as much effort as trying to make a legitimate Star Trek movie that's good.

More like they are lazy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 15, 2015, 10:57:59 AM
Star Trek at its very core is more than this, but it obviously went over the heads of these morons, because this does not resemble Trek.

I wouldn't say they are morons for not understanding Star Trek. They clearly are just trying to make a product that is more likely to make money than a "boring" accurate representation of Star Trek. This kind of movie is safe and doesn't require as much effort as trying to make a legitimate Star Trek movie that's good.


Looking at the people involved in any these 3 movies, I'm not convinced they could make a decent Trek/scifi movie even if they wanted to. JJ admittedly didn't even like Trek, and basically spat in the face of the fanbase with many of his decisions. If only he liked it half as much as he adores Star Wars......
Why even use a franchise's brand recognition to make a movie under the assumption that most people thinks it's boring?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Implode on December 15, 2015, 11:02:49 AM
Why even use a franchise's brand recognition to make a movie under the assumption that most people thinks it's boring?

I'm guessing they assumed that the audience they were catering too aren't actually huge Star Trek fans but just know that it exists. Even if that audience thought it was boring, it was made obvious that the movie wasn't "your dad's Star Trek". And previous views of the source material don't matter to them. Any recognizable name is guaranteed money in their eyes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 15, 2015, 11:07:22 AM
Simon Pegg co-wrote this and he certainly knows how to write a movie. Just look at the Cornetto trilogy.


When he came on board as a writer - they threw away everything that Orci wrote and started again.

That should give you at least *some* goodwill towards it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Implode on December 15, 2015, 11:32:04 AM
Honestly, that does. It makes me feel a bit better knowing that he's going to commit to his own vision instead of trying to shove in everyone's ideas.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 15, 2015, 11:56:32 AM
Maybe.  However, his conception can only be shaped by his immersion in the first two films.  Also, although he has certainly written some entertaining films before, that doesn't necessarily mean he can write a big-budget sci-fi extravaganza.

So, we'll see.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 15, 2015, 12:13:28 PM
Honestly, that does. It makes me feel a bit better knowing that he's going to commit to his own vision instead of trying to shove in everyone's ideas.

I heard that Orci wrote this thing which was the Trekkiest Trek that ever Trekked which If I recall or if the story is true -

- would be nothing but 50th anniversary fan service. Wherein Shatner and Nimoy would reunite on screen and they would restore the original timeline at the end.

I don't think that would have been the right thing to do either.




I'm looking forward to longer trailers and the official poster etc :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 15, 2015, 12:47:43 PM
Didn't Pegg also say that he's constrained to play the current Hollywood game? They're spending over a hundred million on this thing and expect a ROI, which can only be achieved by making a Summer blockbuster. The fact that it will alienate the people who actually want to see a Star Trek movie is inconsequential. I'm suspect Pegg could write a perfectly good Trek movie, and could probably make one that we'd all enjoy if left to do it on his own. I wouldn't bet two bits on his ability to do it within the current paradigm.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: rumborak on December 15, 2015, 12:49:47 PM
I think the baton of Star Trek has passed so many times at Paramount, it arrived at people who simply don't have an emotional connection to the original series. So, they re-imagine it as something entirely different.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 15, 2015, 01:22:48 PM
I think the baton of Star Trek has passed so many times at Paramount, it arrived at people who simply don't have an emotional connection to the original series. So, they re-imagine it as something entirely different.

I agree with this.  Though, I do thing they were losing steam in the box office prompting the hiatus and the keys handed to someone else.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 15, 2015, 06:17:04 PM
" As for those fans who think Lin might have made a Fast & Furious movie set in the Trek universe, Lin understands where the criticism is coming from:

" Yeah, and I don’t know if that’s the case here. When I saw the teaser, I’m like, aw shit.  You really have to put the motorcycle in there? So I get it. "


So yeah - everyone will just say he's backtracking to save his arse but it sounds like ( from the rest of the interview )  that there were several different versions of the trailer - and that's

the one the studio chose.

He also says they're halfway into the 5 year mission and they're just not addressing anything from Into Darkness like curing death etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 15, 2015, 08:21:43 PM
Simon Pegg co-wrote this and he certainly knows how to write a movie. Just look at the Cornetto trilogy.


When he came on board as a writer - they threw away everything that Orci wrote and started again.

That should give you at least *some* goodwill towards it.

Never heard of or seen that. Realizing Orci can't write isn't much of a benchmark, but I guess it's a start. :lol

He also says they're halfway into the 5 year mission and they're just not addressing anything from Into Darkness like curing death etc.

Oh good. I love weak continuity and writing deus ex machinas for a cheap movie ending with no intent to follow through on it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 16, 2015, 07:16:21 PM
https://trekcore.com/blog/2015/12/simon-pegg-asks-fans-to-hang-in-there/

The point of a trailer is to bring in the audience, not to repulse the audience so badly that both the writer and director have to publicly defend that the movie isn't as bad as it looks. :facepalm: It doesn't fill me with confidence that the director and writer had so little say on the trailer. This franchise is so poorly mismanaged it's not funny.

If only Star Trek was managed like Star Wars, with an overall producer of the franchise, and people who know what the hell they're doing and give a shit about their fanbase who support them, rather than the "f*** the fans" attitude they've had since the reboot. Oh but hang in there, insignificant basement-dwelling real Trek fans, there are some scraps in there for you too!

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 16, 2015, 07:45:14 PM
OR - the studio chose the trailer and the writer and director disagreed with THE STUDIO.


I've read a lot over the last few days which makes me look forward to it - but whatever.  I'm done. I'm not posting here again until i've seen the film.

Had enough of everyone turning every single shred of information into a gigantic negative and just bitching at people who actually like them...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 16, 2015, 08:43:13 PM
FFS, NO ONE IS BITCHING AT YOU. Our extreme apprehension about this film has NOTHING to do with YOU.

You have liked the films thus far, and you are excited about the next one. Great. But other people making negative comments about the films are not about YOU.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Cool Chris on December 16, 2015, 11:33:51 PM
I will agree that sometimes the marketing department misses the boat when they cut and release a trailer. Whether it gives away too little, too much, doesn't present the movie well or accurately enough. I recall David Find her saying some of them have this mentality of "well, they did they best they could. It is up to us now to make sure people actually see this film."

I will say the franchise needs to amp up the hype machine a bit. Before yesterday I didn't even know they were working on a new film, to say nothing of getting ready to release one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 17, 2015, 12:10:38 AM
My coworker forced me to watch the trailer. She is excited. I am not.

I liked 09 and Darkness. But I also found them to be action movies set with familiar Trek characters in a familarish Trek universe.

Will I watch Beyond?

Yes. In theaters. Not on opening day. Probably not until it hits the second run budget theater.  Will I enjoy it? Probably.

Would I rather see a TNG era series?

YES.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Implode on December 17, 2015, 07:52:55 AM
OR - the studio chose the trailer and the writer and director disagreed with THE STUDIO.

That's most likely. It's obvious that Pegg is embarrassed by the trailer.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 17, 2015, 08:51:37 AM
OR - the studio chose the trailer and the writer and director disagreed with THE STUDIO.

That's most likely. It's obvious that Pegg is embarrassed by the trailer.
???
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 17, 2015, 08:58:05 AM
He's assuming since Pegg released a statement asking the fans to wait on their judgement until they see the movie implying the trailer does not represent the movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Implode on December 17, 2015, 09:25:58 AM
I'm drawing conclusions from this video of Pegg's reaction to the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f4aAwa5wdg
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Podaar on December 17, 2015, 09:32:27 AM
That's actually encouraging. Thanks, Implode!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 17, 2015, 10:00:01 AM
I thought so too. I've read a lot of quotes from Lin and Pegg recently and they both say a lot of positive stuff.

Both of them were like " It's not the trailer I would have chosen and it doesn't represent the film at all. "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on December 17, 2015, 10:16:10 AM
I've read a lot over the last few days which makes me look forward to it - but whatever.  I'm done. I'm not posting here again until i've seen the film.

hhmmm... only took 8 posts, and 14 hours.  Welcome back.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 17, 2015, 10:21:26 AM
Someone said something I actually agreed with.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 17, 2015, 11:00:44 AM
I've read a lot over the last few days which makes me look forward to it - but whatever.  I'm done. I'm not posting here again until i've seen the film.

hhmmm... only took 8 posts, and 14 hours.  Welcome back.
lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 17, 2015, 11:01:14 AM
Remember it's not about me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 17, 2015, 11:05:44 AM
Remember it's not about me.
Only when you make it that way.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 17, 2015, 11:10:40 AM
Here's a fun little task for Hef, El Barto and Blob.

List all the things you enjoyed about Star Trek (2009) and Into Darkness.

I set this challenge once before when Into Darkness came out after i'd listed all the problems with which I agreed with.

Nobody took me up on it then. And will probably just brush it off now. ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Implode on December 17, 2015, 11:10:57 AM
I've read a lot over the last few days which makes me look forward to it - but whatever.  I'm done. I'm not posting here again until i've seen the film.

hhmmm... only took 8 posts, and 14 hours.  Welcome back.

I think we all should know by now that when someone on the internet says, "I'm done. I'm going to stop posting," the best response is, "Okay. See you tomorrow!"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on December 17, 2015, 11:34:52 AM
I've read a lot over the last few days which makes me look forward to it - but whatever.  I'm done. I'm not posting here again until i've seen the film.

hhmmm... only took 8 posts, and 14 hours.  Welcome back.

I think we all should know by now that when someone on the internet says, "I'm done. I'm going to stop posting," the best response is, "Okay. See you tomorrow!"

Unless Hef grants their wishes, and perma bans them.

Ok, what did I like about the first 2 ST movies:

2009:
- revived a franchise that I love
- casting of Quinto for Spock; Urban for Bones; Pegg for Scotty
- the emotional scene of Hemsworth/Kirk Sr sacrificing himself
- Bana's performance, and the Nemo's singular focus on revenge no matter the cost
- Rachel Nichols half naked (despite being green)

Into Darkness
- the special effects during the action sequences
- the cinematography on the opening planet
- Carol 1/2 naked
- Khan kicking ass on Kronos
- Cumberbatch's performance

That's about it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 17, 2015, 11:37:54 AM
*brushes it off*
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 17, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
That's actually encouraging. Thanks, Implode!
I agree. It looked he like was trying to be diplomatic, but really thought the trailer shit all over them. I'm still not hugely enthusiastic, but mostly because I think what I want just isn't possible in the current paradigm. Nevertheless, he did seem to be implying that there were a lot more elements that I've been missing that weren't in the first two.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 17, 2015, 12:24:10 PM
I don't know about anyone else but that trailer just shouted TOS to me. Albeit with a huge budget AND it also said " This isn't Into Darkness ".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 17, 2015, 12:27:25 PM
Here's a fun little task for Hef, El Barto and Blob.

List all the things you enjoyed about Star Trek (2009) and Into Darkness.

I set this challenge once before when Into Darkness came out after i'd listed all the problems with which I agreed with.

Nobody took me up on it then. And will probably just brush it off now. ;)
I think I already did. Since it was a pretty short list you might not have noticed it. I really enjoyed the characterizations of the principle cast. I think Pine, Quinto and Urban are great as the characters they play. I also liked a lot of the dialog. The writers can't write a good screenplay to save their lives, but somebody on that team has a nice way with words. I also thought there was some good humor in them; particularly the first one. As I've stated on numerous occasions, I can watch one or both of them while skipping over about 50% or so of the content and enjoy it quite a bit. There's not much story left, but the stories weren't very good to begin with. As a collection of various interactions between those three it's perfectly entertaining.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 17, 2015, 12:31:40 PM
- casting of Quinto for Spock; Urban for Bones; Pegg for Scotty
You didn't care for Pine? He was a little too over the top, but then so is Kirk. He's the character that has to get the most development, and even though I don't see that happening, if we do get to see the swagger Pine gives him combined with the seriousness Kirk puts into his responsibilities it'll be a damn fine characterization. I saw the bits and pieces there early on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 17, 2015, 12:47:31 PM
Pine's most Kirk moment from Into Darkness :

" You, Happy? "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 17, 2015, 12:47:51 PM
I didn't care for Pine or Pegg.

I thought Quinto and Urban were spot on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on December 17, 2015, 01:20:53 PM
I don't mind Pine at all.  I like him in fact.  Pegg was a little to over the top but not that is turned me off.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on December 17, 2015, 01:43:57 PM
I don't mind Pine at all.  I like him in fact.  Pegg was a little to over the top but not that is turned me off.

I agree about Pegg.  Pine, I thought did a horrible job resurrecting Kirk.

Urban>Quinto >>> Pegg >>>>>Yelchin >>>>>>>>> Pine.

And don't get me started on Uhura or Sulu.  As much as I love Zoe, her casting did nothing to align with the image of Uhura; same with Sulu.  The only resemblances were that Zoe is dark skinned; Cho is Asian. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 17, 2015, 02:59:43 PM
I agree.

Also not a fan of the Uhura/Spock romance.  At all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on December 17, 2015, 03:42:56 PM
I agree.

Also not a fan of the Uhura/Spock romance.  At all.

I wanted to rage punch someone over that.  Like any chick would fall in love with an emotionless soul.  That was pretty much the worst part of the story.  Absolutely zero need for that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 17, 2015, 03:53:19 PM
(https://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f331/planetshannon/Sourced%20Elsewhere/STTNG425InTheory12_zps2502c4be.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on December 17, 2015, 03:53:47 PM
(but actually, I agree)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 17, 2015, 10:43:06 PM
I agree.

Also not a fan of the Uhura/Spock romance.  At all.

I wanted to rage punch someone over that.  Like any chick would fall in love with an emotionless soul.  That was pretty much the worst part of the story.  Absolutely zero need for that.

Every generic Hollywood movie needs a love story shoehorned in sideways, because obviously then they've got the entire female audience.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 18, 2015, 01:26:36 AM
https://trekmovie.com/2015/12/17/pegg-interview-from-set-of-beyond/
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: kaos2900 on December 18, 2015, 06:46:35 AM
That trailer was awful! Rage against the machine and Trek do not and should not mix.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 18, 2015, 07:32:03 AM
I agree 100%.


:neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 18, 2015, 08:19:00 AM
https://trekmovie.com/2015/12/17/pegg-interview-from-set-of-beyond/

Quote
…we want it to be about them on that five-year mission. In fact, two years into that five-year mission, and how that impacted them personally and what it meant to be out in space that long. And we liked the idea of also, on the fiftieth anniversary, looking at Roddenberry’s original vision and questioning it. The whole notion of the Federation and whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing and how productive is inclusivity and what is the true cost of expansion.
:| :( :tdwn
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on December 18, 2015, 08:23:56 AM
Yeah what the fuck ?

I just want a bad guy wanting revenge again.


I don't want anything new for a change...


I know how much Blob *loves* the whole "utopian future" stuff from TNG.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 18, 2015, 08:31:40 AM
Quote
…we want it to be about them on that five-year mission. In fact, two years into that five-year mission, and how that impacted them personally and what it meant to be out in space that long. And we liked the idea of also, on the fiftieth anniversary, looking at Roddenberry’s original vision and questioning it. The whole notion of the Federation and whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing and how productive is inclusivity and what is the true cost of expansion.
:| :( :tdwn

Yeah, that raised an eyebrow for me too. "To celebrate the 50th anniversary and Gene Roddenberry's vision, we're getting back to what Star Wars is about, except we're questioning it and missing the point entirely."

Yeah what the fuck ?

I just want a bad guy wanting revenge again.


I don't want anything new for a change...


I know how much Blob *loves* the whole "utopian future" stuff from TNG.

I legitimately don't know what your point is, or what parts of this post were supposed to be sarcasm or not, or if you're just trying to stir because nobody is agreeing with you on how bad this movie looks, but maybe you can let me know how wrong I am about the film, since you've clearly seen it judging by your post declaring you wouldn't post again until you had.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ZirconBlue on December 18, 2015, 08:37:45 AM
I agree.

Also not a fan of the Uhura/Spock romance.  At all.

I wanted to rage punch someone over that.  Like any chick would fall in love with an emotionless soul.  That was pretty much the worst part of the story.  Absolutely zero need for that.

He's not emotionless.  That's been firmly established.
 
But, you'll be happy to know that apparently the romance is discontinued in this movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on December 18, 2015, 09:09:57 AM
You're correct... I mis-spoke.  Vulcan's aren't emotionLESS, they are just a species that doesn't outwardly express/demonstrate/display any emotion... hence giving off the impression of being emotionless.

Either way, a romance with a human woman was too much of a stretch for me, especially with the scenes (ie, in the elevator after Vulcan had been destroyed) where Uhura is trying to break down his walls.

And WTF on questioning Roddenberry's vision??   :facepalm:  Yeah, that's the way to celebrate 50 years of Star Trek.   ::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 18, 2015, 09:59:30 AM
Yeah what the fuck ?

I just want a bad guy wanting revenge again.


I don't want anything new for a change...
Yes, because that is clearly what I said.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on December 18, 2015, 11:09:24 AM
I'm kind of torn on questioning Roddenberry's vision. I've said all along that the guy was a fucking menace. His vision of this superior, enlightened humanity was the fatal flaw of TNG, in my opinion. However, it sounds like they're tackling a different aspect of it which A: doesn't need tackling, and B: doesn't deserve to be tackled by these people. Moreover, it really wasn't a problem at all in the TOS era. Not really sure what to make of all of this.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 16, 2016, 09:44:15 PM
Just watched TOS. SOooo much cheese.

Now working through TNG.

So much hate for Yar...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 16, 2016, 09:57:10 PM
Just watched TOS. SOooo much cheese.

Now working through TNG.

So much hate for Yar...

I see we feel the same here. :lol I hated Yar so damn much.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 16, 2016, 09:58:48 PM
I am only on S1E2. Yar gets kidnapped.

I wish she woulda died right here.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 16, 2016, 10:04:24 PM
:lol I remember when my friend showed me the series for the first time, and I'd constantly yell at the screen about how much I hated her and wanted her to die.
I wonder if you'll feel the same about Pulaski as I did? (she's a later character)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 16, 2016, 11:53:22 PM
I cant stand her either.

This isn't my first TNG rodeo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 17, 2016, 12:11:33 AM
My bad. In that case, I'm glad my most hated characters had a habit of disappearing quickly. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on January 17, 2016, 06:32:58 AM
:lol I remember when my friend showed me the series for the first time, and I'd constantly yell at the screen about how much I hated her and wanted her to die.
I wonder if you'll feel the same about Pulaski as I did? (she's a later character)

I hated Pulaski way more than Yar.  So relieved when they brought Bevvy back.  Even if Wesley stayed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on January 17, 2016, 06:57:44 AM
I couldn't stand Troi early on.  Thankfully,  they flushed out her character and in the end a very strong character.   

Pulaski was easily hated.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on January 17, 2016, 08:00:38 AM
The female characters mostly sucked on TNG. Oh and this is my most hated scene. Absolutely unnecessary and ridiculous. Also... those clothes  ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXZZeHkL29c

I think the one that I thought was most relatable was Crusher and I found Lwaxana Troi entertaining.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 17, 2016, 08:13:39 AM
I knew exactly what scene that was going to be. I recall reading their outfits are one pieces worn backwards with clothing underneath, hence the low cuts at the front /pointless trivia.

They didn't do a good job with the female characters on TNG at all, at least in earlier seasons. That's why Denise Crosby left. I think it was partially behind Gates McFadden leaving for S2 (among other reasons). Marina Sirtis has spoken about how badly written her character was in earlier seasons.
They did manage to improve Troi later on so she had more to do than play emotional Captain Obvious. Crusher was mostly ok, but could have been utilized a lot more.

They did a much better job on DS9.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on January 17, 2016, 12:37:34 PM
The female characters mostly sucked on TNG. Oh and this is my most hated scene. Absolutely unnecessary and ridiculous. Also... those clothes  ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXZZeHkL29c

I think the one that I thought was most relatable was Crusher and I found Lwaxana Troi entertaining.

You're crazy.   This is the single greatest scene in the history of any ST show EVER....
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on January 21, 2016, 12:08:20 PM
Best Of Both Worlds Could Have Been Longer (https://www.trektoday.com/content/2016/01/best-of-both-worlds-could-have-been-longer/)

Interesting.  I think it works perfectly as a 2-parter.  Not sure how it would have been if it were any longer.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 21, 2016, 12:13:28 PM
Yep it was fine as it was.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 21, 2016, 05:03:29 PM
Not sure how I feel about that. It could have turned out great, but it worked so perfectly as is that I'm glad it turned out the way it did.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 21, 2016, 08:17:17 PM
Wow, I always thought it was one episode too long. Every time they did a cliffhanger to end a season, the second part was always terrible (or in this case, at least, passable but still disappointing). The only exception was Redemption which was excellent on both ends (and I suppose Descent which was just godawful all the way through). I suppose that Piller might have been onto something with  extending TBoBW out, though. They set a lot up with the first parts of these, and then have to resolve them in 45 minutes. In this case, Riker having to overcome Picard's knowledge of him was the big story, and they didn't get to really play it out. An intermediary episode in there would have helped.

The mid season two-parters tended to always be good to excellent. Unification, Chain of Command and Gambit were all great. Birthright wasn't bad, but it needed an actual B story to go along with the Worf story.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PetFish on January 21, 2016, 10:39:46 PM
Something I've always wondered about but never remember to ask even though I think I know the answer:

Do they film two-parters all at once or do they come back and finish the second half?  I would think they film it all at once for the most part, but maybe if they're not sure the show will be back next year they might do it in two pieces.  I'm sure it's different for the genre as well like, say, comedy.

LOL @ "Piker versus Riker"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on January 21, 2016, 10:56:14 PM
The two-parters in the middle of a season are mostly shot together, or back-to-back, but the season cliffhangers are picked up when shooting starts for the next season.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 21, 2016, 11:01:01 PM
Something I've always wondered about but never remember to ask even though I think I know the answer:

Do they film two-parters all at once or do they come back and finish the second half?  I would think they film it all at once for the most part, but maybe if they're not sure the show will be back next year they might do it in two pieces.  I'm sure it's different for the genre as well like, say, comedy.

LOL @ "Piker versus Riker"

There's a production break of a few months between seasons, even in the case of two parters. The script for BOBW pt 2 wasn't even written until after the first one was shot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on January 22, 2016, 08:09:33 AM
There's a production break of a few months between seasons, even in the case of two parters. The script for BOBW pt 2 wasn't even written until after the first one was shot.
Which I think is one of the big problems with their season cliffhangers. It's real easy to write yourself into a corner. In this case writing a first half that sets up more more than you can accomplish in a second. Hence my feeling that Piller was probably right about making it 3 parts.

Also, even in the mid-season two-parters they're directed by different folk. Never understood why that was. Generally it worked alright as you never noticed a huge difference in tone between the two, but it's another thing that doesn't help matters.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PetFish on January 22, 2016, 04:06:11 PM
Thanks for the info on shooting two-parters.

If they *know* they're coming back next season it seems silly to stop and re-start.  Having to get everything set up and looking just the same as the year before sounds very inefficient and stuff.  If they just did the shots with actors at the same time and saved the VFX for later would make a lot more sense.

Meh, I'm not Hollywood, I guess they know what they're doing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on January 23, 2016, 06:40:13 AM
Thanks for the info on shooting two-parters.

If they *know* they're coming back next season it seems silly to stop and re-start.  Having to get everything set up and looking just the same as the year before sounds very inefficient and stuff.  If they just did the shots with actors at the same time and saved the VFX for later would make a lot more sense.

Meh, I'm not Hollywood, I guess they know what they're doing.

There's always the risk of the solution to the cliffhanger being leaked though.  I had just gotten into TNG mid-way thru Season 4, so I saw BOBW in syndication - part 1 was on a Friday, and part 2 aired on Monday.  I was on pins and needles all weekend wondering how the hell it was going to turn out.  I would've been out of my mind if I had to wait 3-4 months.  That was the perfect representation of a cliffhanger.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on January 23, 2016, 07:33:32 AM
It was!  I thought it was a good one, and yeah, the resolution to it might've been a bit rushed, but I didn't think Part II was horrible. And then the unofficial Part III, the episode "Family" where Jean-Luc goes home to Earth for R&R and gets hammered with his brother Robert (pronounced "Ro Bare") and ends up feeling a lot better about things, so that was cool.  TNG was pretty good through that stretch, those middle seasons.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on January 23, 2016, 08:59:58 AM
It was!  I thought it was a good one, and yeah, the resolution to it might've been a bit rushed, but I didn't think Part II was horrible. And then the unofficial Part III, the episode "Family" where Jean-Luc goes home to Earth for R&R and gets hammered with his brother Robert (pronounced "Ro Bare") and ends up feeling a lot better about things, so that was cool.  TNG was pretty good through that stretch, those middle seasons.

Because he's french :p
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 01, 2016, 11:08:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/v0ci6ag.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 01, 2016, 11:16:55 AM
https://trekcore.com/blog/2016/01/new-star-trek-beyond-concept-art-reveals-new-starship/

New concept art reveals Uss Franklin. Looks a lot more like Prime Universe design.

Looks like it features heavily in "...Beyond".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 01, 2016, 09:15:29 PM
I saw it a few days ago but figured it must have been a hoax. It just looks like a bad fan model of the NX-01 and doesn't fit with the Alt Universe aesthetic at all. Maybe it's supposed to look like an Alt Universe version of an NX-01 style/era ship though, since that's technically still canon and they did include a model of the NX-01 in Into Darkness.
Still looks much better than the hideous Dreadnought or whatever it was called from Into Darkness.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on February 02, 2016, 08:44:56 AM
Ugh, that's some ugly ship.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 09:27:04 AM
It's like NX-01 or some TOS style ship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 09:30:25 AM
I think it's supposed to be an older ship (somewhere from ENT era onwards), because they changed the style of the TOS era ships with the reboot. Maybe they got stuck with a crappy old ship for a reason.

I remember seeing a brief description of the movie somewhere and this probably fit into that, but I can't be bothered finding it again.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 09:34:12 AM
It seems like The Franklin crashed on the same planet and Enterprise is sent to investigate and suffer the same fate.

At the end they try to resurrect the Franklin to get back to Starfleet.

" I know why you're here "...

Maybe Idris Elba's character Kraal takes down any ship that comes near the planet and imprisons the crews.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 09:38:51 AM
The Enterprise is well into their 5 year mission, so they're far from home. Possibly this is a much older slower ship that left a long time ago to also get that far out.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 09:59:49 AM
Paramount are shuffling their feet at the moment.

Only one teaser and the film is out in like 5 months.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 02, 2016, 10:03:01 AM
Damn, we're that close? You'd think they could scrape together a little more enthusiasm and fanfare for the 50th anniversary of Trek. But maybe they saw the new movie already. :neverusethis:

Pretty sad when you compare it to the hype around Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 04:27:28 PM
Star Wars is massive though.

I doubt Paramount could spend what Disney did on promo and even think about getting it back.

I thought Into Darkness had pretty good promo and it still made under $500m

No Star trek movie will ever make $1bn globally.

They'll probably start promoting it a lot more nearer the release date.

I'm hoping for a longer trailer very soon.


EDIT : A two-minute teaser was released in iTunes Movie Trailers on December 17. The teaser marked the beginning of a viral marketing campaign, with a hidden link directing fans to a movie-related website. A 30-second teaser premiered February 3, 2013 during the stadium blackout of Super Bowl XLVII.

Maybe we'll get a similar thing this time ?

The first Beyond teaser was Dec 14.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 02, 2016, 04:33:07 PM
Gonna leave a prediction here and come back to it after July 22.

In the trailer - you hear Kirk say " How're we gonna get out of this one ? "

His delivery is a bit awkward . I'm thinking they cut the line for the trailer and he actually says

" How're we gonna get out of this in one piece ? "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 03, 2016, 10:04:47 AM
I would imagine we get a trailer during the Super Bowl.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 03, 2016, 01:45:40 PM
Just casually asked Chris Doohan on twitter if he's in Beyond and he messaged me saying that he isn't.

Shucks.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 03, 2016, 08:55:15 PM
I hadn't thought about it, but I wouldn't have expected it. Even though he was in both of the previous ones (?), it seemed like a token thing to shut up the diehards, and he wasn't a major character anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: DragonAttack on February 06, 2016, 11:44:11 AM
Will chime in now, and post something further days (weeks?) from now.

Enjoying the thread, and I'm only on page 7.

Put up with the first JJ movie.  Even went to a theater a second time (in spite of Vulcan being blown up), wanted to walk out of the second as soon as I saw the Enterprise swim out of the water (don't even talk to me about Khan, or the scene of Kirk dying...wanted to puke).

I thought TNG missed out on a 'Hill Street Blues' type of cast (have 30, kill off or promote 20).  We still watched it every Saturday night when first aired.  DS9 was boring, lost interest within two years, Voyager stunk (but I'll watch an episode on occasion) and 'Enterprise' had its moments.  I wish all the retreads would have been aired during the 2010s:  do five or ten episodes, take a break, do five or ten more, take a long break. 

It is so much better for the actors, the writers, and the removal of formulatic B.S.

I just saw the promo for STIII (or whatever).  Won't go near it.  Insert David Bowie 'Slam bam, Thank you Ma'am' theatrics apparent.  So much for what made TOS the best when it really hit the mark......sci fi with the added human element involved.

Rant and expose' are over for now.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 08, 2016, 03:02:03 PM
:| no trailer for super bowl. We had one for Into Darkness...

The movie is out in 5 months and paramount seemingly cannot be arsed promoting it...

*i'm* actually losing interest rapidly. ME.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on February 08, 2016, 07:25:25 PM
Maybe... it's been canned?


*crosses fingers*
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 08, 2016, 07:55:16 PM
I figured they just didn't want to hurt Simon Pegg's feelings any more than they already have.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 08, 2016, 09:27:10 PM
I didn't expect it was big time enough for the Superbowl anyway.

Maybe... it's been canned?


*crosses fingers*

One can dream!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 12:22:26 PM
The writer and producer of Star Trek Voyager has been named as co-creator of Star Trek 2017.

Bryan Fuller.

He wrote 81 episodes.
inb4 - yeah he probabnly wrote all this shit episodes like threshold. this changes nothing. I still hate everything...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 09, 2016, 12:42:55 PM
What is St:17?

And that dude wrote a lot of the really dark episodes. That would make me think it's the premium TV series that was mentioned a while back. I kind of assumed that they'd want to do a highly dramatic BSG type of thing, and his resume seems to fit that profile.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 12:43:45 PM
Star trek 2017 is the new TV show airing on CBS in 2017.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 12:55:16 PM
I hope they do it either in Kirk's time or way WAY in the future of The Next Gen.

There's 3 series in Picard's era. There's only one series set in the TOS era.

You could do loads of stories set in that period.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 09, 2016, 01:47:03 PM
Some of this guy's work:

DS9-
Deformed Serial killer wants to carve up a very pregnant Kira.
Garak goes off his nut and slaughters starfleet personnel on an abandoned space station.

VOY-
Neelix dies and becomes completely insufferable before deciding to off himself (and tragically being prevented).
Seven's preconceptions cause a false accusation which leads an innocent guy to off himself.
The entire Voyager crew slowly dies, before disintegrating seconds outside of range of the other Voyager that could have saved them.
Voyager crew portrayed as ruthless, genocidal thugs for an entire episode.
An Alien episode where Torres is Ripley, skulking around a dark and decrepit freighter, staving off attacks from some guy left deformed and bitter because of his working conditions.
Torres dies and spends the entire episode trying to stay out of hell.
Reliving the final few hours of a guy forced to die alone in space after his comrades are killed.
Former cast-member returns bitter and homicidal to take revenge on her former friends.
Sentient holograms with a Messiah complex enslave and persecute their former captors. Doctor betrays Voyager.
Ancient Earth probe causes the complete annihilation of a planet. Long time cremember returns only to be murdered by the understandably bitter and resentful mutant survivors.

Honestly, the guy's got a pretty good resume. A lot of these are solid episodes, and he's responsible for some other really good ones, as well. Relativity, Workforce, and Living Witness are some of his less dark (thought certainly not lighthearted) episodes. Still, he's definitely the guy apt to focus on the morose. You won't be seeing any tribble episodes out of this guy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 01:50:12 PM
Quote
Torres dies and spends the entire episode trying to stay out of hell.

That was a great episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 09, 2016, 02:23:45 PM
Quote
Torres dies and spends the entire episode trying to stay out of hell.

That was a great episode.
Have you actually watched all of VOY? I'm not asking to be a dick, but that's an odd choice to single out as a good one. Just curious if it's one of the few you remember or something, or if you know all of them and really liked that one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 02:26:58 PM
I've not seen all of Voyager but i've seen a lot and I remember that one.

Fave episode is Blink Of An Eye.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 09, 2016, 02:36:41 PM
Fair enough. I always considered that a C episode, but that's largely because I never cared for the Torres episodes very much. There are some A episodes on that list, which is why I was wondering.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 09, 2016, 02:48:00 PM
I enjoyed the premise.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on February 09, 2016, 03:09:24 PM
It had a good premise, but I really didn't care for the execution. In fact, that applies to a lot of those Voyager episodes. Good ideas but not great scripts. However, I did love the episode where they find out they're all clones and die.

I'm still not hopeful about the new show. Kurtzman has just as much say as this guy does and neither of them are writers as far as I know. It also seems like it's made to fail by putting it as paid for content. How many viewers will really sign up for something just to watch it? I'm pretty sure they had to make some kind of deal to keep the new movie name and this is their way of making sure the show doesn't last too long.

I truly hope I'm wrong. Good trek is always welcomed by me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 09, 2016, 04:37:03 PM
It had a good premise, but I really didn't care for the execution. In fact, that applies to a lot of those Voyager episodes. Good ideas but not great scripts. However, I did love the episode where they find out they're all clones and die.

I'm still not hopeful about the new show. Kurtzman has just as much say as this guy does and neither of them are writers as far as I know.
It also seems like it's made to fail by putting it as paid for content. How many viewers will really sign up for something just to watch it? I'm pretty sure they had to make some kind of deal to keep the new movie name and this is their way of making sure the show doesn't last too long.

I truly hope I'm wrong. Good trek is always welcomed by me.
This guy is a writer. He wrote all the shows I listed, plus a handful more. I'd say that Kurtzman is the bigger problem, but considering what this guy's style is and what will actually work for modern television, I'm not real hopeful either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on February 09, 2016, 05:47:26 PM
Oh no, I meant I'm not sure he's tasked to write for the show. I just skimmed over the news article, but it says he was executive producing them. He may be writing them, I just didn't see it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 09, 2016, 09:10:35 PM
Some of this guy's work:

VOY-
The entire Voyager crew slowly dies, before disintegrating seconds outside of range of the other Voyager that could have saved them.
Ancient Earth probe causes the complete annihilation of a planet. Long time cremember returns only to be murdered by the understandably bitter and resentful mutant survivors.

Those two in particular always stood out to me as really bleak, especially Friendship One (would have been even darker if they didn't save the baby or the planet).
As for episodes I really loved though, there's only Relativity, Gravity, and Living Witness. On the downside, Spirit Folk, Barge of the Dead, and Bride of Chaotica were kinda crap. Spirit Folk is actually the only episode of Star Trek I couldn't even sit through. Dreadful. It makes Threshold look good.

Still, they could have chosen much worse, and I'm glad it's someone with existing Trek lineage, and not one of the current breed of scifi hacks.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: kaos2900 on February 10, 2016, 11:48:46 AM
So is it true that the new Trek show will only be available on CBS's streaming service and they're pulling all of the Trek shows off of Netflix? If so, I'm going to bummed becasue I was just about to start going through all of the series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 10, 2016, 11:58:47 AM
So is it true that the new Trek show will only be available on CBS's streaming service and they're pulling all of the Trek shows off of Netflix? If so, I'm going to bummed becasue I was just about to start going through all of the series.
Yes, the new series will only be available on CBS's streaming service (after the pilot debuts on CBS).

They haven't made announcements yet about Netflix and Hulu, but they have given a date for the episodes to start leaving Amazon, IIRC.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 10, 2016, 12:54:52 PM
So is it true that the new Trek show will only be available on CBS's streaming service and they're pulling all of the Trek shows off of Netflix? If so, I'm going to bummed becasue I was just about to start going through all of the series.
Welcome to the 21st century, where it's easier for everybody to demand a slice of your money, and easier for you to take their shit for free.

There's talk now of Angela Basset and Rosario Dawson being Capt./XO of the new series. I've got no problem with either of them, but both together sounds like something of a bummer. I get diversity and all, and strong females work very well in ST, but that just seems like a bit too much of an estrogen festival.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 10, 2016, 09:02:39 PM
So is it true that the new Trek show will only be available on CBS's streaming service and they're pulling all of the Trek shows off of Netflix? If so, I'm going to bummed becasue I was just about to start going through all of the series.
Welcome to the 21st century, where it's easier for everybody to demand a slice of your money, and easier for you to take their shit for free.

There's talk now of Angela Basset and Rosario Dawson being Capt./XO of the new series. I've got no problem with either of them, but both together sounds like something of a bummer. I get diversity and all, and strong females work very well in ST, but that just seems like a bit too much of an estrogen festival.

Yeah, it kind of comes across as token choices, regardless of their talent. Ultimately I don't mind how thy cast it though, as long as it's all done well. I can almost guarantee we'll have a gay crew member too, which again I'm ok with but would feel kind of obligatory. Trek is overdue for dealing with that directly anyway.
I'm glad to be getting some Trek with a new crew though, rather than retreading the past.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 05:44:43 AM
I'm surprised there hasn't been an out and out ( no pun intended ) gay character in Trek up til now.

But yeah it needs to be appropriate and not just thrown in to stop SJWs going apeshit.


I think the new series should either be like 100 years on from Picard's time or set in Kirk's time just on a different ship because you pretty much only saw Kirk & co in that era.

The Next Gen era has three series all in the same time. Voyager was 75 light years away and did pretty much nothing with it.

Set it in the 25th century ( lol buck rogers ) and on the Enterprise NCC 1701-X
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 11, 2016, 05:54:34 AM
It will probably be 50-100 years after the new movies, but being set in the alt universe it wouldn't make much difference either way. They have almost no regard for continuity so it would be almost trivial.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on February 11, 2016, 07:08:19 AM
They both are very good actresses so that is a positive.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on February 11, 2016, 08:22:59 AM
I will definitely watch the new show and be oh so glad if it's at least half way decent. But with (so far) a one style writer with mainly bleak and dark episodes plus one of JJ's goons producing... let's say my enthusiasm is somewhat restrained. I'm perfectly fine with Bassett and/or Dawson, both great performers I really like. But in the end it will come down to the show's basic concept and the writing anyway, no matter how awesome or unknown the cast will turn out to be.

JJ timeline would almost be a deal breaker for me though. I really like that sense of history and storylines interweaving the past and the future. It just makes a fictional world feel so much bigger and more grounded and more realistic, even (or maybe especially) in sci-fi or fantasy.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 11, 2016, 08:24:45 AM
I'm surprised there hasn't been an out and out ( no pun intended ) gay character in Trek up til now.

But yeah it needs to be appropriate and not just thrown in to stop SJWs going apeshit.


I think the new series should either be like 100 years on from Picard's time or set in Kirk's time just on a different ship because you pretty much only saw Kirk & co in that era.

The Next Gen era has three series all in the same time. Voyager was 75 light years away and did pretty much nothing with it.

Set it in the 25th century ( lol buck rogers ) and on the Enterprise NCC 1701-X
That'd be an interesting way to do it, for that reason. In TOS you really had three and a half guys and a token extra (Scotty fell somewhere in between). All of the other shows had a real ensemble cast. Actually having 8 or so main characters on an old Constitution class ship would be a cool way to go about it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 11, 2016, 08:26:47 AM
I will definitely watch the new show and be oh so glad if it's at least half way decent. But with (so far) a one style writer with mainly bleak and dark episodes plus one of JJ's goons producing... let's say my enthusiasm is somewhat restrained. I'm perfectly fine with Bassett and/or Dawson, both great performers I really like. But in the end it will come down to the show's basic concept and the writing anyway, no matter how awesome or unknown the cast will turn out to be.

JJ timeline would almost be a deal breaker for me though. I really like that sense of history and storylines interweaving the past and the future. It just makes a fictional world feel so much bigger and more grounded and more realistic, even (or maybe especially) in sci-fi or fantasy.

Greetings...
Nef

Unless there's some legal reason between CBS/Paramount, I expect it will be alt universe so it doesn't confuse all of the casuals. It may not be too explicit about it, but I don't expect continuity with the older series either way.
If the show sucks, I'd rather it be associated with the new movies, but I'd rather a great series that continued on from where Voyager left off, and real time afterwards, so they could potentially have old actors as guests. But that's aiming a little too high. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 09:18:09 AM

That'd be an interesting way to do it, for that reason. In TOS you really had three and a half guys and a token extra (Scotty fell somewhere in between). All of the other shows had a real ensemble cast. Actually having 8 or so main characters on an old Constitution class ship would be a cool way to go about it.

Then you still have that problem of :

" It has to look like it's 200 years from now but still the same as what you saw in TOS "

It's like Damon Lindelof said " You have to have flip communicators because it's Star Trek but in reality - flip phones are already out of date. "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 09:19:18 AM
Quote from: blobVanDam
If the show sucks, I'd rather it be associated with the new movies, but I'd rather a great series that continued on from where Voyager left off, and real time afterwards, so they could potentially have old actors as guests. But that's aiming a little too high. :biggrin:

JJ timeline. TNG era.

:hifive: we've cracked it.


You can have the same set design as TNG and it won't look too dated. Just ramp it up slightly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 11, 2016, 09:36:47 AM
JJ timeline. TNG era.

I've said it before, and vaguely said it a few posts up, but this I think is the most likely option. I think TNG would look a little dated for a new series, but you could definitely take cues from the design style.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 11, 2016, 10:00:41 AM
AFAIK, there IS a legal spat between Paramount and CBS.  Paramount owns the film rights, while CBS owns the TV rights.

So if I had to guess, I would guess that the new show will NOT be affiliated with the new films in any way.

But I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: perfecthundred on February 11, 2016, 10:38:12 AM
I have zero confidence in a studio to produce a television series in which they refuse to follow the series trademark. That is Star Trek Beyond looks the way it does apparently because Paramount thought the initial screenplay was too Star Trek. It blows my mind that Paramount wants this to be the new Star Trek and yet keep it far far from the source material. If that will be the case for this movie then that will be the case for the series. Also, why bother calling it Star Trek anymore? Why on Earth bring in an old set of characters if you don't want what the old characters represented? I may check out the series for curiosity sake but I'm not expecting anything. Star Trek Into Darkness started strong but ended so far into awful territory that it kinda left a sour taste in my mouth. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 11, 2016, 10:46:33 AM
Remember that the series is CBS, not Paramount as the movies are. I don't think there's much connection between the two. And Trek on the small screen has always worked differently to on the big screen.
I'm not expecting anything either, but I also wouldn't automatically count the movies as a strike against it. Yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 11, 2016, 10:59:27 AM
Nor would I, but I'd count the modern audience against it. The same problem that the movies have will likely be evident in the new series. I don't think television audiences want ST in the TNG tone anymore. I think they want drama and intensity. Just like the movies have to revolve around action and excitement,  my hunch is that the series will have to be high tension and drama. There's a reason they picked the guy they did to run the thing.

If it were a sendication show then it might be different. It's certainly possible that TPTB would be happy enough with an audience of loyal trekkies. However, as the launch flagship of their new service, CBS is going to have to shoot for a massive audience, methinks.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 11:43:21 AM
I have zero confidence in a studio to produce a television series in which they refuse to follow the series trademark. That is Star Trek Beyond looks the way it does apparently because Paramount thought the initial screenplay was too Star Trek.

Pegg clarified that Bob Orci's original script was TOO Star Trek - as in - he basically wrote the most fan service movie ever and it starred Nimoy and Shatner and loads of other alumni.

They wanted something that would appeal to a larger audience - i.e. not JUST Trekkies.




@ElBarto syndication* ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 11, 2016, 12:16:43 PM
Two different concepts of what constitutes Trek. The first two movies have tons of fan service in them, and Spock, but are decidedly un-Star Trek. What we're wanting as Star Trek is actual science fiction, with some social commentary, and perhaps a good ethical question or two.

And I thought sendication looked wrong as hell, but the spellcheck didn't flag it so I figured it was just the glue I was sniffing. .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 11, 2016, 12:23:57 PM
I'd love the most Star Trek film ever but I also don't just want fan service as that's what gummed up Into Darkness. Not entirely but it didn't help.

If Khan was John Harrison and the dialogue in the radiation chamber scene weren't repeated verbatim from TWOK it would have ben a much better film.

Just a couple little things that weren't necessary.


You could have had Commander John Harrison encounter some spacial anomaly whilst patrolling the galaxy for Adm. Marcus looking for something to defend against the Klingons.

He now has magic healing powers. Marcus tries to use him for his own personal gain or he'll execute his crew. Harrison smuggles his crew out and goes on the run etc etc.

He didn't need to be Khan at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on February 11, 2016, 04:48:08 PM
I just want a well written Star Trek movie/show.

I want to like the characters. I want them to be more than just a series of decisions.

I want to watch it and not have to constantly think "wait....why are they doing that?". In so much as, I don't want most decisions to be made off the premise of "How can we get from point A to point B?" I want the flow to be logical.

I remember watching the first 45 minutes of Into Darkness (never saw the rest) and thinking...."why is the Enterprise under water? Can't they just do their thing from orbit or did they just do it for an escape scene?"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 12, 2016, 12:41:13 PM
For reasons fairly baffling to me I watched the first part of In a Mirror Darkly last night.

Once again, huzzah for hot, slutty Hoshi.

Captain Forrest has to be the dumbest person to ever command a starship. First he decides to blow up the Defiant for no discernible reason. The he sends the guy who wanted to steel it all along and his cadre of mutineers over to take care of it.

The idea that Joleen Blalock is a stick with bolt-on tits is pretty off base. That's a fairly curvy woman. Moreover, she's sporting one of the sexiest walks you'll ever see. Jeri Ryan walked like she was on her way to see the hangman.

Like most ST actors,  those people are terrible when acting outside of their customary character. Bakula in particular was just awful. The only ones that were any good were the two ladies. I'd say they're better than the DS9 cast, but that's not saying anything, really.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 12, 2016, 08:25:02 PM
Still can't agree with you on Blalock (although I certainly wouldn't kick her out of bed regardless). Hot slutty Hoshi was the better drawcard for me. :hat

Even though I don't like S4 much at all, I liked In a Mirror Darkly quite a bit for ENT. It was still moderately fanwanky, tying into The Tholian Web and (for all intents and purposes) including the original Enterprise model, but it was a fun departure.
I agree the actors didn't do a great job outside of their regular characters, still mostly very clean cut and stiff, especially Bakula, but I don't think any of them were worse than in their regular roles. :lol
Better than the DS9 cast though? Nah.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on February 12, 2016, 10:41:40 PM
Still can't agree with you on Blalock (although I certainly wouldn't kick her out of bed regardless). Hot slutty Hoshi was the better drawcard for me. :hat

Even though I don't like S4 much at all, I liked In a Mirror Darkly quite a bit for ENT. It was still moderately fanwanky, tying into The Tholian Web and (for all intents and purposes) including the original Enterprise model, but it was a fun departure.
I agree the actors didn't do a great job outside of their regular characters, still mostly very clean cut and stiff, especially Bakula, but I don't think any of them were worse than in their regular roles. :lol
Better than the DS9 cast though? Nah.

I think one of the problems with Bakula playign evil Archer is that Bakula seems like one of the nicest guys in the world. I guess his niceness extends beyond his acting range.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 12, 2016, 10:55:18 PM

Better than the DS9 cast though? Nah.
When they're playing characters outside of their normal roles, definitely. In the mirror universe episodes the DS9 cast were always way over the top, which made them completely unwatchable. And while Far Beyond the Stars should have been a fantastic episode, most of their acting really ruined it. I found none of them particularly believable, and Avery Brooks and Dorn were just awful. Whereas, aside from Bakula, the ENT cast was perfectly believable in their mirror roles.

And yeah, Bakula's seemingly nice personality does work against him. I thought he was trying to hard to be mean and nasty, which is probably necessary in his case.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 12, 2016, 10:58:53 PM
Oh, outside of regular roles? I don't know, I actually liked them in Far Beyond the Stars (except maybe Michael Dorn but I hate his acting in any role). Never liked DS9's mirror universe episodes though. Still probably a tie with the ENT performances, but In a Mirror Darkly was better than any of the DS9 mirror universe episodes imo which helps.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on February 13, 2016, 04:34:22 AM
Like most ST actors,  those people are terrible when acting outside of their customary character. Bakula in particular was just awful.

It's absolutely shocking to hear this considering .... Quantum Leap.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on February 13, 2016, 02:33:03 PM
Like most ST actors,  those people are terrible when acting outside of their customary character. Bakula in particular was just awful.

It's absolutely shocking to hear this considering .... Quantum Leap.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 14, 2016, 02:16:42 PM
Back in 2013, Bryan said that he would love to explore how the next generation era would have evolved in the rebooted J.J. Abrams timeline, or perhaps do a show set on the USS Reliant, the same

space ship hijacked by Khan in “Star Trek Into the Darkness,” with Angela Bassett as captain and Rosario Dawson as the first officer.



TNG era in Alt timeline or TOS era tv show. two of the things we came up with.

:hifive:

I could go with either of these.

TNG era in the alt timeline or a series on Board the Reliant could be interesting. You could have the final episode as she approaches a planet.

Keptin - we are appraoching the 6th planet in the Ceti Alpha Seestem

Thankyou Mr. Checkov.






** HOLD UP I just read the quote...

Hijacked by Khan in Star Trek Into THE Darkness ? :lol so much wrong in one sentence.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on February 14, 2016, 07:50:49 PM
Just watched Errand of Mercy, one of the better episodes I've seen so far.

Quote
KIRK: Mister Spock, can we get those two guards? What would you say the odds on our getting out of here?
SPOCK: Difficult to be precise, Captain. I should say approximately 7,824.7 to 1.
KIRK: Difficult to be precise? 7,824 to 1?
SPOCK: 7,824.7 to 1.
KIRK: That's a pretty close approximation.
SPOCK: I endeavor to be accurate.
KIRK: You do quite well.

I lol'ed hard at this :lol

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 14, 2016, 08:28:08 PM
Yeah, that's one of your top ten episodes. I love that the only people Kirk and Kor hate more than each other are the fucking Organians.

Kirk: I'm used to the idea of dying, but I have no desire to die for the likes of you.
Kor: I don't blame you.

John Colicos is always great, and he made the perfect Klingon. He's cruel and ruthless, but with a wonderful passion for the Klingon way of life. Few would ever look as happy as Kor. Martok, who you'll be coming across in about 12 years at this rate, shares that quality. Those two really set the bar.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on February 14, 2016, 08:50:15 PM
Interesting, I'm glad to hear I'll get to see more of the Klingons in the future, I think they're kinda modeled after the Mongol's from the 1200's in culture and love of war, looks as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 14, 2016, 08:54:05 PM
Martok would easily be my favourite Klingon.
I also liked Gowron, who I always referred to as Crazy Eyes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on February 14, 2016, 08:57:53 PM
Yea, Martok was the quintessential Klingon to me. I also liked the Klingon the same actor played in Enterprise, brief as it was.

I'd probably put Sarek as the quintessential Vulcan.

Not sure who I'd put for Romulan. I'm definitely not sure whom I'd put for Ferengi, since they kept re-writing the species.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 14, 2016, 09:10:00 PM
While Spock is by far my favourite Vulcan, obviously he's half human and showed that more as time went on, so isn't representative. With that in mind, I think I'd agree with Sarek. Few people managed to play Vulcans without coming across as arrogant grating a-holes. Mark Lenard nailed it, seeming benevolent without being emotional.

I don't think Romulans were really developed enough for me to know or care who did it best. They always just felt like generic additional enemies, even in DS9. Hard to say for the Ferengi either. All of them got watered down over time in DS9. Quark was an awesome character, but they softened him up a lot.

Do we even need to say for the Cardassians? Mark Alaimo literally defined them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on February 14, 2016, 09:13:53 PM
Yea, obviously Dukat was the definitive Cardassian.

However, one additional factor is that essentially every featured Cardassian was awesome. Just a species with a great casting record. Whether it was Dumar, the dude who tortured Picard, the dude who claimed to be another dude but was really his clerk, the dude who wanted to cut out Kira's baby, etc etc.

Though, the last going Bajoran arc for Dukat really........stunk. :( But yea, before that he was the man.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 14, 2016, 09:17:45 PM
I actually didn't like Damar at all, but otherwise I agree. Garak was always amazing. The guy who tortured Picard was David Warner, wasn't it? That guy's awesome in everything.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on February 14, 2016, 09:20:54 PM
I actually didn't like Damar at all, but otherwise I agree. Garak was always amazing. The guy who tortured Picard was David Warner, wasn't it? That guy's awesome in everything.

I thought Damar had a great arc, but I can see why you might not like him. And yea, no clue how I forgot Garak. Just a well casted species.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 14, 2016, 09:22:01 PM
Damar had a good arc, I just never thought much of the actor's performance, and coming from Gul Dukat, that's a hard act to follow.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 14, 2016, 10:20:40 PM
Interesting, I'm glad to hear I'll get to see more of the Klingons in the future, I think they're kinda modeled after the Mongol's from the 1200's in culture and love of war, looks as well.
The Mongols is about right, for now. As their mythos gets fleshed out they essentially become vikings. Honor in battle earns you a spot at the big party in the sky with all the great warriors before you. That won't happen til TNG, though. For now they're just mongols.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 14, 2016, 10:35:10 PM
I always thought Damar was an excellent Cardassian. As Garak would always explain, duty and loyalty are the most important things. All of the exuberance you got from him and Dukat seemed out of place. Damar appreciated things outside of duty, he drank and enjoyed female company, even laughed from time to time, but he always put Cardassia first.

Mark Lenard was the quintessential Romulan. Proconsul Neral (reunification) would be the runner up. After that it's hard to tell because the few recurring characters were awful.

Tuvok was an excellent Vulcan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 14, 2016, 11:04:10 PM
I'm surprised you think much of a Voyager character, but I agree. He's my second favourite Vulcan character. Tuvok had some great retorts, like Spock did, and he got the tone right. He also occasionally got to do some badass things justified by logic.
And I know a lot of people don't think much of Neelix, but I liked that the odd couple pairing of those two. Neelix was the perfect foil.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 15, 2016, 06:55:40 AM
Tuvok was the best thing about Voyager.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 15, 2016, 07:02:59 AM
I think The Doctor would judge out that honour for me. He actually had some good character development unlike most of them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 15, 2016, 07:10:59 AM
Ooh, maybe.  Plus I think Robert Picardo is brilliant in pretty much everything.  The problem is that The Doctor had nowhere to go but up, whilst with Tuvok the challenge was somehow developing and showing us more of him but keeping him exactly the same.  But the writers actually did a good job with both of them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 15, 2016, 07:18:00 AM
I agree. I thought Tuvok was consistently well written. There was one particular episode where I recall he had to do something pretty shady for the sake of the crew's benefit, and managed to justify it to Janeway logically, and she was a little horrified at how he was able to do so. I can't remember much more specific than that, but it was cool.
And Robert Picardo is brilliant in everything. The Doctor got to follow an arc similar to Data, starting off as the emergency program based on a pretty surly dude and confined to one room. I remember Robert Picardo being concerned about getting the portable holo-emitter, thinking it would ruin the character, but it opened up even more options for his character to grow and learn beyond his programming.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 15, 2016, 08:08:14 AM
I think I've heard that before.  Picardo's concern may have been that his character would always be confined to the sick bay, and the challenge as an actor was to do the most with that.  It also made the character unique, well even more unique, because of that limitation.  The holo-emitter allowed him to move beyond those four walls, but in a way made him more like everyone else, thus "ruining" the character.  If he can get around, go anywhere, then what's the challenge, what makes him different?  The answer was, as you said, the Data-like arc wherein he, as an AI, learned to go beyond his basic programming.

In fact, Data was awesome but ultimately was a self-contained and finite AI.  The Doctor, being a program, had the resources of the ship's computer to build with.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 15, 2016, 08:20:33 AM
What I liked about The Doctor is that he wasn't necessarily aspiring to be more "human", but to explore his own freedom and sentience and become all he could be, and would even actively tinker with his own programming to achieve it. Data wanted to understand humanity, and his ultimate goal was to be human, and was much more about observing the human condition.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 15, 2016, 09:50:25 AM
I agree. I thought Tuvok was consistently well written. There was one particular episode where I recall he had to do something pretty shady for the sake of the crew's benefit, and managed to justify it to Janeway logically, and she was a little horrified at how he was able to do so. I can't remember much more specific than that, but it was cool.
And Robert Picardo is brilliant in everything. The Doctor got to follow an arc similar to Data, starting off as the emergency program based on a pretty surly dude and confined to one room. I remember Robert Picardo being concerned about getting the portable holo-emitter, thinking it would ruin the character, but it opened up even more options for his character to grow and learn beyond his programming.
Tuvok nailed the logic aspect yet still kept an inkling sentimentality. He possessed some wisdom that Spock didn't really come across until after he died and came back. Very good Vulcan.

And I think what you're referring to is steeling some transporter technology on the rationale that it needed to be done but Janeway wouldn't be able to bring herself to do it. Strangely, I've had to read some quotes from that episode in discussing a legal matter in P/R. As she said, logic can be used to justify damn near anything.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 15, 2016, 10:59:29 AM
What I liked about The Doctor is that he wasn't necessarily aspiring to be more "human", but to explore his own freedom and sentience and become all he could be, and would even actively tinker with his own programming to achieve it. Data wanted to understand humanity, and his ultimate goal was to be human, and was much more about observing the human condition.

True.  It would have been lame (not that Voyager writers were above that) to have The Doctor aspire to be "more human" just like Data before him, so the goal to be all that he could be was a logical and different aspiration, and took him in some different directions.

Data was an android, a facsimile of a human, so to want to be as human as possible made sense.  The Doctor, being a program, would have different goals, to simply push beyond his programming, or in another sense, push his programming as far as it could go.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on February 20, 2016, 01:35:28 AM
Finally on a steady routine of an episode or two a day, working through Barto's list and Blob's additions to it, but when I don't have my iPad or laptop handy to know which episode to go to next I just watch the next one down the list on Netflix, I think Netflix has them in the same order they are on the DVD's.
The episodes I'm watching are the remastered ones, they look great but I don't like the total replacement of space scenes and most landscape scenes on planets, they even replace scenes on monitors that shows the outside of the Enterprise, I saw some comparison scenes between the old and remastered footage; the remasters do look great as I said but then knowing they're newly created takes something away from the experience, especially with the contrast with the scenes they could replace, such as internal of the ship. I just wanted to note that but I'm not getting held up on it or letting it get in the way of me enjoying the episodes.
One last thing about the remastered episodes is that the HD makes the men's make up on this show painfully visible and ALL men on this show had make up on..
I think the reason I was put off for a while was how much I disliked the last episode I saw last year, Space Seed, we've talked about this here and I might revisit it sometimes since it's seemingly a universally acclaimed one.
Episodes I've seen over the last few days working down the list:
Errand of Mercy: Excellent episode, got my appetite for the show up again, discussed my thoughts about it a bit here.
The City on the Edge of Forever: Another great one, I'm a time travel fan and I enjoyed how they conducted that here.
Amok Time: Great Spock Episode, no remarks except I'm starting to find a trend in Dr. McCoy telling Captain Kirk that there's something suspicious he thinks Kirk needs to look into and Kirk dismissing it or taking it lightly only to find out McCoy was right.
The Enemy Within: A very fun episode, I liked it a lot, a good reminder of how difficult it was to show one actor playing two identical characters in the same scene back then, evil Kirk is horny..
Charlie X: An episode I watched when I didn't have the list handy, the kid is an awful actor and this is one of the episodes that bother me with how easily avoidable the predicament was.
The Man Trap: Another episode that wasn't on the list, this one was decent though, I thought.
Mudd's Women: Just finished that now, decent episode, I think the guy playing Mudd is the first good actor to guest star in this show as far as I've seen.
I'll try to post about the episodes as I watch them so that the remarks are still fresh in my mind.
I still find it funny whenever they are scenes around the hallways on the Enterprise and there seem to be A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE that we don't know just living there and hanging out like it's a college campus :lol
Quick question: Do you guys think it's okay to view the recent Star Trek trilogy or it would it spoil some stuff?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 20, 2016, 01:53:56 AM
Trilogy? Are you counting the upcoming movie?

First movie should be ok, I'd hold off on the second movie until you've seen The Wrath of Khan, or even better just hold off permanently. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on February 20, 2016, 03:02:00 AM
Yeah including the upcoming movie, I'm hoping by the time it comes out I'd be completely through with all TOS and the six old movies, which I'm very much looking forward to btw.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 20, 2016, 03:19:39 AM
Figured you must have been referring to the new movies, but 2/3/4 of the original movies are also considered somewhat of a loose trilogy in how they connect, so I was just making sure.

Into Darkness borrows a lot from The Wrath of Khan including lifting entire scenes, and I'd imagine that it falls even flatter if you aren't familiar with The Wrath of Khan first. Without having actually seen the upcoming movie, I expect that will be fine to watch even if you haven't finished the old stuff yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 20, 2016, 03:57:26 AM
Plus watching The Wrath Of Khan is pretty much mandatory.

It's a great film in its own right. Not just the best Star Trek film.

There is one scene from The Wrath of Khan in Into Darkness - but with a twist. Apart from that it's *very* subtle nods.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 20, 2016, 12:00:44 PM
Finally on a steady routine of an episode or two a day, working through Barto's list and Blob's additions to it, but when I don't have my iPad or laptop handy to know which episode to go to next I just watch the next one down the list on Netflix, I think Netflix has them in the same order they are on the DVD's.
The episodes I'm watching are the remastered ones, they look great but I don't like the total replacement of space scenes and most landscape scenes on planets, they even replace scenes on monitors that shows the outside of the Enterprise, I saw some comparison scenes between the old and remastered footage; the remasters do look great as I said but then knowing they're newly created takes something away from the experience, especially with the contrast with the scenes they could replace, such as internal of the ship. I just wanted to note that but I'm not getting held up on it or letting it get in the way of me enjoying the episodes.
One last thing about the remastered episodes is that the HD makes the men's make up on this show painfully visible and ALL men on this show had make up on..
I think the reason I was put off for a while was how much I disliked the last episode I saw last year, Space Seed, we've talked about this here and I might revisit it sometimes since it's seemingly a universally acclaimed one.
The replaced footage of the remastering is usually pretty tastefully done. I can only think of one time when it screwed things up. Just as difficult as showing two actors at the same time is showing multiple ships at the same time. In The Ultimate Computer, which I'm sure is on the list I provided, there's a battle sequence with 5 constitution class ships. In the original it was pretty poorly done, with the 4, then 3, then 2 ships locked real close together. In the new one they're all flying about independently. However, along with the music the original provides a great deal of tension. The other ships are constantly bearing down on the Enterprise. There's a sense of sheer determination that's lost. I can see why they redid that footage, but it really took away something from the original.

That said, they restored all of the footage including the syndication cuts. Some of those cuts were far more egregious than redoing the exterior shots.


Quote
Amok Time: Great Spock Episode, no remarks except I'm starting to find a trend in Dr. McCoy telling Captain Kirk that there's something suspicious he thinks Kirk needs to look into and Kirk dismissing it or taking it lightly only to find out McCoy was right.
Spock inviting McCoy down to Vulcan as one of his closest friends was important to the series, I think. Much like Bart and Lisa in the early days of The Simpsons, they spent most of their time bickering but underneath still had a good deal of regard for each other.
Quote

Charlie X: An episode I watched when I didn't have the list handy, the kid is an awful actor and this is one of the episodes that bother me with how easily avoidable the predicament was.
The Man Trap: Another episode that wasn't on the list, this one was decent though, I thought.
Don't care for either of them. They were the first and second episdoes aired, I believe.

Quote
Mudd's Women: Just finished that now, decent episode, I think the guy playing Mudd is the first good actor to guest star in this show as far as I've seen.
Didn't care for the episode, but Harvey Mudd is great. He'll be back.

Quote
The City on the Edge of Forever: Another great one, I'm a time travel fan and I enjoyed how they conducted that here.
Generally considered TOS's finest hour. I thought it was overrated at first, but honestly it probably is their best work.

Quote
I still find it funny whenever they are scenes around the hallways on the Enterprise and there seem to be A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE that we don't know just living there and hanging out like it's a college campus :lol
Once you get to TNG, it's a giant cruise ship. Families walking around in swimwear and stuff.


Quote
Quick question: Do you guys think it's okay to view the recent Star Trek trilogy or it would it spoil some stuff?
I'd wait until you watch the entire rest of the franchise. Chronological order is working well enough for you now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 21, 2016, 09:32:21 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbvykEKWIAADN67.jpg:large)





:lol I laugh when I see shots like this. It's so obvious that they've all got a mark so everyone can be seen.

I've even seen cast members stand in front of an extra - who then awkwardly do a side step into frame :lol

Or when the camera pans across the bridge in a tense scene and two bridge officers are in the same line of sight or whatever - the one behind takes a step to their left into frame

whilst looking concerned. usually Troi :lol

So funny.


It's like posing for a family photo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 21, 2016, 11:50:43 AM
All the more so when you consider how little there actually is of the bridge that's actually built. You've got just what can be seen from two specific angles and the rest opens up into a big soundstage.

(https://img.trekmovie.com/images/links/sttespain-d.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 21, 2016, 12:06:25 PM
Which Star Trek vessel would you most like to live on ?

I think Enterprise D  would be the most comfortable.

We didn't get to see a whole lot of E - but it didn't look as bright and comfy as the Enterprise D.

D looked luxurious ( A cruise liner in space - El Barto ).. And being the 24th century - the interior lighting is probably daylight simulating vitamin D emitting

so you would not get claustrophobic and depressed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on February 21, 2016, 02:28:05 PM
A triple non-list viewing due to lack of access to list at the time:
What Are Little Girls Made Of? God damn that android Andrea is smoking hot, easily the hottest woman I've seen so far on this show. Decent plot, the red shirts are so useless and so often old and out of shape :lol, I like that Kirk gets upset when they get killed but very briefly and by the end of the episode he's perfectly fine heh, I also like that Kirk's message to alert Spock of his situation included calling him a half-breed and that Spock complained about it at the end of the episode, not cool Captain.. not cool.
Did I say God damn? Cause.. God damn! (https://rymimg.com/lk/f/a/3bf7048eebc988170e99cb2e361f58d7/3166591.jpg).
Miri If I had to make a top 3 episodes of what I've seen so far; this would be one of them, really tight, kept my close attention from beginning to end, excellent plot and execution, all the children were great, just imagine this show done with modern day time camera movements and cinematography, very creepy and insane, doesn't waste time or drag at all. Hard to believe you guys didn't include it on your lists of recommendation, I recommend you revisit it.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 21, 2016, 07:00:02 PM
Andrea is always mentioned as the top of the list. There are plenty of smoking hot girls in TOS, but she's kind of the benchmark. She's certainly my pick.

As for the episodes, hated them both. Two of my least favorites, in fact. WaLGMo is probably in the bottom 3, in fact, alongside Spock's Brain and Requiem for Methuselah. Rather than revisitng my list, perhaps you might be better served to watch all the episodes that didn't make my list.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on February 21, 2016, 07:14:42 PM
Haha I like to listen to fans so I'll keep revisiting the list but we certainly appreciate as many different things about the show as we dislike.
I can understand your view on WaLGMo and I wouldn't rewatch it but I didn't hate it. I can't imagine how you hate Miri though.. 300 years ago a civilization attempted to make immortality possible but they ended up with a virus that kills all adults and drastically slows down the aging of children, so we're left with the children aging a month every 100 years and a planet where they've been it's sole inhabitant all that time even though they remain mentally children, that's gold man.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 21, 2016, 07:36:10 PM
Well, if they hadn't inexplicably made it another Earth it would have been slightly better. Add to that, the kids were just creepy as fuck. And not in a cool, Children of the Corn sort of way. They were just weird to look at. As I recall, a lot of the actors were older than the kids they were supposed to be playing, and there's a point where that becomes quite unsettling.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 21, 2016, 08:31:11 PM
What Are Little Girls Made Of? God damn that android Andrea is smoking hot, easily the hottest woman I've seen so far on this show. Decent plot, the red shirts are so useless and so often old and out of shape :lol, I like that Kirk gets upset when they get killed but very briefly and by the end of the episode he's perfectly fine heh, I also like that Kirk's message to alert Spock of his situation included calling him a half-breed and that Spock complained about it at the end of the episode, not cool Captain.. not cool.

Kirk specifically focused on that thought so that the mind-copying machine would pick it up, giving Spock a clue that something was up with the android Kirk.  Spock knew that Kirk would never say that, so the way android Kirk tossed it out there was a red flag.  Not cool, but intentionally so.  I thought it was funny the way Spock called him on it at the end, and Kirk was like "Hey, I had three seconds to think of something, and it worked, right?"

And yeah, Sherry Jackson (Andrea) was a total babe.  If you search the Internet, there are pictures where you can see... more of her.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 21, 2016, 09:11:03 PM
Agreed on the robot chick being one of, if not the hottest girl in TOS. Iconic outfit to show her off too. I actually thought the episode itself was ok. Definitely not one of my least favourites, nor top of any list either.

Miri though? Awful and creepy in more ways than one. I'm with Barto 100% on that one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on February 21, 2016, 09:29:52 PM
Well, if they hadn't inexplicably made it another Earth it would have been slightly better.

I agree, but it didn't prove to any significance to the rest of the story, so it's stupid but nothing was built on it. I think they should have left that detail out, maybe they thought to say that to justify why the inhabitants of the planet look human.

Add to that, the kids were just creepy as fuck. And not in a cool, Children of the Corn sort of way. They were just weird to look at. As I recall, a lot of the actors were older than the kids they were supposed to be playing, and there's a point where that becomes quite unsettling.

The oldest looking one was their leader and he couldn't be more than 18 years old either, it made sense in the plot since Miri and that guy were about to get the disease because they were just passing their adolescence. But they were creepy indeed and I kinda got a kick out of that, especially when they ganged up on Kirk and kicked his ass so hard I haven't seen that much bleeding on his face after any other fight he had on the show :lol
Fun bit of trivia; the little girl Kirk carries out of the class room is Shatner's own daughter, I started listening to an interesting podcast called Mission Log: A Roddenberry Star Trek Podcast in bed before I nod off -taking a break from Dragnet heh- and they just talk about every episode in TOS in details, review and trivia.

What Are Little Girls Made Of? God damn that android Andrea is smoking hot, easily the hottest woman I've seen so far on this show. Decent plot, the red shirts are so useless and so often old and out of shape :lol, I like that Kirk gets upset when they get killed but very briefly and by the end of the episode he's perfectly fine heh, I also like that Kirk's message to alert Spock of his situation included calling him a half-breed and that Spock complained about it at the end of the episode, not cool Captain.. not cool.

Kirk specifically focused on that thought so that the mind-copying machine would pick it up, giving Spock a clue that something was up with the android Kirk.  Spock knew that Kirk would never say that, so the way android Kirk tossed it out there was a red flag.  Not cool, but intentionally so.  I thought it was funny the way Spock called him on it at the end, and Kirk was like "Hey, I had three seconds to think of something, and it worked, right?"

Oh I thought it was funny too, I should have put a laughing emoticon at the end of that heh

And yeah, Sherry Jackson (Andrea) was a total babe.  If you search the Internet, there are pictures where you can see... more of her.

My good sir, I did that during watching the episode :lol

btw I met a Trekkie today at the playground -I have babies..- and we spoke a bit, he kept driving the point home that the real fun won't being until I get to The Next Generation and frankly I'm not super excited about that, I know it's the Patrick Stewart show and that should be good enough but I'm not very keen on T.V from the early nineties.. I still intend on watching it but I'm just not super hot for it even though it seems to me now that most of Star Trek fandom is oriented around that show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 21, 2016, 09:42:14 PM
If/when you do get to TNG, the first two seasons are easily the weakest, so keep that in mind. I think DS9 is the better series though, and is probably more highly regarded amongst the diehard Trekkies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 21, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
What Are Little Girls Made Of? God damn that android Andrea is smoking hot, easily the hottest woman I've seen so far on this show. Decent plot, the red shirts are so useless and so often old and out of shape :lol , I like that Kirk gets upset when they get killed but very briefly and by the end of the episode he's perfectly fine heh, I also like that Kirk's message to alert Spock of his situation included calling him a half-breed and that Spock complained about it at the end of the episode, not cool Captain.. not cool.

Kirk specifically focused on that thought so that the mind-copying machine would pick it up, giving Spock a clue that something was up with the android Kirk.  Spock knew that Kirk would never say that, so the way android Kirk tossed it out there was a red flag.  Not cool, but intentionally so.  I thought it was funny the way Spock called him on it at the end, and Kirk was like "Hey, I had three seconds to think of something, and it worked, right?"
I don't remember anything even remotely that intelligent about that episode. I guess I'll have to go back and [shudders] rewatch it.

Of the TOS ladies, I think I'd have to rank them Sherry Jackson, then Barbara Bouchet (Kelinda, By Any Other Name), with a 4-way tie for third (a bunch of really hot yeomen). If they'd tried, Joan Collins might well have topped the list.


btw I met a Trekkie today at the playground -I have babies..- and we spoke a bit, he kept driving the point home that the real fun won't being until I get to The Next Generation and frankly I'm not super excited about that, I know it's the Patrick Stewart show and that should be good enough but I'm not very keen on T.V from the early nineties.. I still intend on watching it but I'm just not super hot for it even though it seems to me now that most of Star Trek fandom is oriented around that show.
While I hate the characters, if you take the top 50 or 60 episodes they're all good-excellent. Moreover, it sets up all the other series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 22, 2016, 05:34:56 AM
If/when you do get to TNG, the first two seasons are easily the weakest, so keep that in mind. I think DS9 is the better series though, and is probably more highly regarded amongst the diehard Trekkies.

First  two seasons and then 7 as well.

Season 5 is the best I think.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 22, 2016, 05:41:10 AM
I don't recall having any issue with S7, although its been 7 years since I've seen it now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 22, 2016, 05:49:49 AM
O RLY ?

I seem to remember you or El Barto always saying how bad it is and they'd basically run out of ideas by then.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 22, 2016, 06:15:29 AM
That sounds like much more of an El Barto opinion. :lol

It was only S1&2 that I considered outright bad. Actually, the first two seasons of every Star Trek series from TNG onwards had a distinctly worse first two seasons.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 22, 2016, 08:23:21 AM
When you have to resort to episodes about Geordi's mom, you've officially exhausted all of your ideas. Add in Data dreaming that the ship is a train, the ship's computer becoming alive, Data's mom, Crusher and dahm candle, and Lwaxana, Alexander and Wesley episodes and you've got a pretty awful season.

In fairness, Gambit, Lower Decks and Parallels were all very good episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 22, 2016, 08:34:23 AM
Rewatched WaLGMo. The thing with Ruk, a planet of androids and The Old Ones is actually a very good story. The problem is Andrea. Her love story makes no sense and ruins the whole thing overall. Maybe if they'd been able to develop it better it'd have helped, but I'm not sure. I gather it was the hackneyed trope of Kirk making the android fall in love with him and freak the fuck out, but it just didn't work. As bad an episode as it was, Requiem for Methuselah actually pulled that bit off. In WaLGMo the Andrea part was a mess.

Also, after they spend minutes talking up how Roger Corby is one of the intellectual giants of the entire federation, he asks Christine "where are you" when she's talking to him on the same line as Kirk. Kirk also uses Andrea a human shield. At the end of the episode, Kirk says that Christine has decided to stay on board the Enterprise. As opposed to what? Living on a frozen planet after the entire robot population of 4 has been killed? According to Memory Alpha the episode went way over schedule, mostly because they were having to do rewrites the whole time they were shooting because the script was so bad. I'd say that 8 days wasn't long enough.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 22, 2016, 10:42:06 AM
I agree that the final product was a bit of a mess, but as with most sci-fi, it's the original concept that counts.  For me, I guess.  The idea that The Old Ones had all this knowledge, and Ruk was an android who'd been around so long that he'd actually forgotten some things ("Yes!  That was the equation!")  Plus he was just so damned cool-looking.  Corby was a putz, and I thought the Andrea story was a bit silly, but hey it was the 60's and even concepts like this were still really new.  Can/will androids become so advanced that they have emotions?  If so, are they just "programmed" emotions, nothing more than responses to various stimuli, or isn't that just what human emotions are anyway?  And she was cute, so that made it much more tolerable.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 26, 2016, 01:33:12 PM
HOLY CRAP

NICK MEYER JOINS STAR TREK 2017 WRITING STAFF

https://www.startrek.com/article/nicholas-meyer-joins-new-star-trek-series

 :omg: :omg: :omg:

THAT IS GREAT NEWS. FUCK THE NEW MOVIE :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 26, 2016, 02:37:05 PM
* waits for Blob & El Barto to only find the down sides to this story *

:lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on February 26, 2016, 08:14:49 PM
The reason this is bad is news is.....


...okay it's good news. I still won't be excited about the show until I see either a very promising trailer or a very good first episode. Before that, and knowing just how much the studio doesn't understand Star Trek, no amount of good news will lead me to believe that the studio won't mess it up anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 26, 2016, 10:03:49 PM
It's not what I'd call bad news, as I love the particular movies he worked on.
However, the movies and the series are different animals altogether, so I still consider him a wildcard as far as TV is concerned, and outside of Trek, he hasn't done anything at all I've heard of since in the past 25 years. I hope this choice wasn't just to try and ease people's minds more than actually what serves the show. I'd be more excited if he was working on the new movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on February 27, 2016, 03:00:29 AM
It's been a year...

(https://www.dreamshade.net/foren/dreamtheaterforums/20150227.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 27, 2016, 03:42:57 AM
Don't remind me. :( Dammit.


New Star Trek fan film for anyone who's into that kind of thing, Star Trek: Horizon. Being a fan film, the acting isn't all top notch, and the CG is overdone, but for a fan film that was primarily made by one guy, it's very impressive, and very watchable. Much better than Renegades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l94v4YOqxOc
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 27, 2016, 05:25:46 AM
It's not what I'd call bad news, as I love the particular movies he worked on.
However, the movies and the series are different animals altogether, so I still consider him a wildcard as far as TV is concerned, and outside of Trek, he hasn't done anything at all I've heard of since in the past 25 years. I hope this choice wasn't just to try and ease people's minds more than actually what serves the show. I'd be more excited if he was working on the new movie.
This is pretty much the way I looked at it, as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on February 27, 2016, 05:50:32 AM
But he still hasn't worked in movies for 25 years as well! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on February 27, 2016, 11:58:25 AM
But he wrote the best three Star Trek movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on February 27, 2016, 09:32:34 PM
Interesting discussion (https://www.missionlogpodcast.com/what-are-little-girls-made-of/) on  What Are Little Girls Made Of from the Star Trek podcast that I listen to, they get into the nature of android cloning and whether it's still really you, as in transfer of conscience or just a machine with your background.
I need to post more often if I wanna share my thoughts cause I tend to forget but I rarely have enough time on my computer, anyway here's a couple of things I wanted to share:
- I forgot to ask this when I first watched Mudd's Women; in the elevator Mudd recognizes Spock as a half-Vulcan, yet it seems to me Spock looks exactly like all the Vulcans he meets in Amok Time, am I missing something?
- William Shatner's acting has significantly improved from Season 1 to Season 2.
- William Windom was pretty great in Doomsday Machine, it took me a few minutes before I recognized him from The Twilight Zone, really good actor and solid character.
On to the episodes, back on Barto's list:
The Doomsday Machine: Solid episode, enjoyed it through out and loved the Moby Dick vibe for Matt Decker, I'm looking to see if youtube has the original footage for the planet eater scenes, curious to see what 1960's technology had there. This episode could have been a movie easily, one thing I love about most of the Star Trek episodes I've seen so far is that they don't drag at all, like most TV shows these days do, on the contrary; it actually very often seems like they could have expanded on a bunch of things in the plot but didn't/couldn't because of time restraints or some other reason.
The scene where Decker takes over the Enterprise was a reminder for me that most -if not all- of these characters are military officers, I dunno why I thought they were a scientific team from a futuristic NASA-like organization.
It was interesting to see Captain Kirk getting down and dirty with some machine fixing on the Constellation, I believe this is the first time I've seen him do anything other than ask a lot of questions and give orders based on the answers he gets from his crew, feels like his only talent has been decision making so far.
Curious to see if there are more of the planet eater out there to show up in later episodes or shows.
Funny bit: As soon as Kirk asked Scotty to beam back and leave him to detonate the Constellation; Scotty is like "okay bye" hehe, didn't try to show any solidarity or sympathy to Kirk who could have easily died in this stunt, I'm thinking they couldn't waste time on more dialogue there.
The Changeling: Great episode, I enjoy episodes that take place entirely on the Enterprise, throughout the episode I wondered why Kirk couldn't just order the Nomad to self destruct as soon as it proved deadly, he eventually did that in some way but after what I thought was unnecessary mind gaming with the thing. Shatner gave his relatively best bit of acting on the series when he thought Scotty was killed.
Funny bit: I like that Uhura's memory has been wiped clean yet it would only take a week to re-educate her on everything she need to do her job again, kinda means that she's very easily replaceable :lol
The fact that they're all military officers explains to me how McCoy is always around even for matters that doesn't require a medical opinion, like they're get together in the conference room to discuss some danger or plan and he'd be there which used to seem odd to me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on February 27, 2016, 09:42:54 PM
But he wrote the best three Star Trek movies.

Yes, he did write the three best Trek movies, and they were also very Trekky by the movie's standards. No problem there at all!

But it doesn't look like he's really worked on a series, so how will he adapt to a series, and what has he done in the past 25 years? As I said, it's not a bad thing, it just feels like it was motivated by exciting fans, rather than what will be a sure thing for the series. Hopefully he'll be a great addition to the show, but I'll have to reserve my judgement on him until I've seen it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on February 28, 2016, 04:56:27 PM
Interesting discussion (https://www.missionlogpodcast.com/what-are-little-girls-made-of/) on  What Are Little Girls Made Of from the Star Trek podcast that I listen to, they get into the nature of android cloning and whether it's still really you, as in transfer of conscience or just a machine with your background.
I need to post more often if I wanna share my thoughts cause I tend to forget but I rarely have enough time on my computer, anyway here's a couple of things I wanted to share:
- I forgot to ask this when I first watched Mudd's Women; in the elevator Mudd recognizes Spock as a half-Vulcan, yet it seems to me Spock looks exactly like all the Vulcans he meets in Amok Time, am I missing something?
- William Shatner's acting has significantly improved from Season 1 to Season 2.
- William Windom was pretty great in Doomsday Machine, it took me a few minutes before I recognized him from The Twilight Zone, really good actor and solid character.
On to the episodes, back on Barto's list:
The Doomsday Machine: Solid episode, enjoyed it through out and loved the Moby Dick vibe for Matt Decker, I'm looking to see if youtube has the original footage for the planet eater scenes, curious to see what 1960's technology had there. This episode could have been a movie easily, one thing I love about most of the Star Trek episodes I've seen so far is that they don't drag at all, like most TV shows these days do, on the contrary; it actually very often seems like they could have expanded on a bunch of things in the plot but didn't/couldn't because of time restraints or some other reason.
The scene where Decker takes over the Enterprise was a reminder for me that most -if not all- of these characters are military officers, I dunno why I thought they were a scientific team from a futuristic NASA-like organization.
It was interesting to see Captain Kirk getting down and dirty with some machine fixing on the Constellation, I believe this is the first time I've seen him do anything other than ask a lot of questions and give orders based on the answers he gets from his crew, feels like his only talent has been decision making so far.
Curious to see if there are more of the planet eater out there to show up in later episodes or shows.
Funny bit: As soon as Kirk asked Scotty to beam back and leave him to detonate the Constellation; Scotty is like "okay bye" hehe, didn't try to show any solidarity or sympathy to Kirk who could have easily died in this stunt, I'm thinking they couldn't waste time on more dialogue there.
The Changeling: Great episode, I enjoy episodes that take place entirely on the Enterprise, throughout the episode I wondered why Kirk couldn't just order the Nomad to self destruct as soon as it proved deadly, he eventually did that in some way but after what I thought was unnecessary mind gaming with the thing. Shatner gave his relatively best bit of acting on the series when he thought Scotty was killed.
Funny bit: I like that Uhura's memory has been wiped clean yet it would only take a week to re-educate her on everything she need to do her job again, kinda means that she's very easily replaceable :lol
The fact that they're all military officers explains to me how McCoy is always around even for matters that doesn't require a medical opinion, like they're get together in the conference room to discuss some danger or plan and he'd be there which used to seem odd to me.
Two great episodes. Windom really beat the shit out of that redshirt.  :lol   And it seems there's a lot of cross-training in the federation. On a couple of occasions Uhura takes over for Chekhov or Sulu when one of them flips out or something. Similarly, Chekhov is the junior science officer, taking over when Spock's not around. There's also a relatively unknown redshirt that gets put in charge of the ship a few times when Kirk, Spock and Scotty are all off doing something.

The Changeling is actually the 2nd of 3 or 4 instances where Kirk convinces a computer to destroy itself. He previously talked Landru into letting them blow it to bits.

As for the unremastered Doomsday, it's strictly static shots of the planet-killer being hit with phasers.

(https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/8/80/USS_Enterprise_takes_on_the_planet_killer.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/185?cb=20090325213813&path-prefix=en)

In TOS they were unable to shoot space sequences with more than one moving objects. If there were two ships they were static with the stars moving behind them. I thought they went a little overboard with the battle sequences in the new version of this, but the footage of the smashed up Constellation getting pummeled by asteroids definitely made up for it. And BTW, Memory-Alpha lists every change between the original and remastered versions, with pictures usually. If you haven't been already, you would do well to read the article for each episode after watching them.

Starfleet Command pretty much acts as the military wing of the federation, but because of Roddenberry's Utopian vision, they all considered themselves explorers first and foremost. I suspect most of the specialists had rudimentary military training, but pretty much along the lines of what Hawkeye and Trapper-John would have received as doctors serving in Korea. Once you get to TNG the lines become far more distinct. On the Galactic Princess there's a mix of starfleet personnel and civvies who are essentially modern astronauts.

Quote
- I forgot to ask this when I first watched Mudd's Women; in the elevator Mudd recognizes Spock as a half-Vulcan, yet it seems to me Spock looks exactly like all the Vulcans he meets in Amok Time, am I missing something?
Eh. Beats the shit out of me. As a salesman and scoundrel, it would certainly make sense for Mudd to be a fantastic judge of character. At the time, "you're part human, aren't you" would have made a helluva lot more sense.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on February 28, 2016, 06:42:24 PM
Spock of course was the first Vulcan we met, and they made a point of him being only half Vulcan.  In Amok time, I think they did a decent job of making the others look "more Vulcan".  Stonn and T'Pring especially I thought look quite alien.  I mean, as far as aliens went those days, which was makeup and prosthetic ears.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on March 01, 2016, 06:47:02 AM
Love Doomsday Machine! "Gentlemen I suggest you beam me aboard."  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 01, 2016, 08:13:03 AM
Read the other night on M-A that Windom never picked up on the Mobey Dick aspect of the episode. For years he always blew the thing off as some cheesy show about a space monster. It wasn't until much later that somebody finally pointed out to him that Decker was Ahab that he decided the whole thing was worth a damn.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 01, 2016, 08:24:42 AM
It's great that he'd be able to turn in such a great performance for some cheesy show about a space monster.  A little over the top, but appropriately so, just the right amount actually.  Enough to reinforce the Ahab aspect.  Which he completely missed as the motivation for the character, so that's weird.  Part of me respects him more, and part of me respects him less, after reading that.  Mostly more, I guess.

But aren't actors always asking "What's my motivation?"  At the root of any performance, what is driving the character?  What is it that the actor must internalize to really bring the character to life?  Maybe that's just the cliché.  But Ahab vs Moby Dick is iconic.  Some aging guy chasing a space monster is silly, but hey, a gig's a gig, a paycheck's a paycheck.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 01, 2016, 11:38:40 AM
My hunch is that he just wasn't a particularly bright bulb. I thought his performance was excellent and not over the top (which is unusual for ST). I suspect they just told him to be brooding and obsessive and he ran with it. The Ahab thing just never registered to him.

It's also possible that he deemed his motivation to be solely the loss of his crew, and based his revenge on guilt. I don't think Ahab had the guilt component. He was just pissed off at the whale for maiming him. That could be a reason why Ahab never registered with Windom. While the behavior of Decker and Ahab were very much the same (Decker's treatment of the Enterprise crew is much the same for Ahab's Pequod crew), they were differently motivated.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 01, 2016, 12:53:04 PM
Nicholas Meyer doesn't want to repeat Star Trek.

https://trekmovie.com/2016/02/29/nicholas-meyer-i-think-its-going-to-be-a-different-star-trek/
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 01, 2016, 12:53:54 PM
My hunch is that he just wasn't a particularly bright bulb. I thought his performance was excellent and not over the top (which is unusual for ST). I suspect they just told him to be brooding and obsessive and he ran with it. The Ahab thing just never registered to him.

It's also possible that he deemed his motivation to be solely the loss of his crew, and based his revenge on guilt. I don't think Ahab had the guilt component. He was just pissed off at the whale for maiming him. That could be a reason why Ahab never registered with Windom. While the behavior of Decker and Ahab were very much the same (Decker's treatment of the Enterprise crew is much the same for Ahab's Pequod crew), they were differently motivated.

Yeah, that's true.  I guess the parallel to Ahab is more the being obsessed than what was driving the obsession in the first place.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 01, 2016, 09:55:22 PM
Nicholas Meyer doesn't want to repeat Star Trek.

https://trekmovie.com/2016/02/29/nicholas-meyer-i-think-its-going-to-be-a-different-star-trek/

Not much information to give at this point. I don't want retread either (like most of ENT), but it's also a concern that it ends up different in a way that shows too much influence and similarity to other modern shows, and ends up not very Trekky and just dumbed down.

I'm not worried about Meyer in that regard because he seems to get it, at least as far as could be shown in the films, but I just don't know what direction they're going with the new series yet in general. I'll remain hopeful until I have something to judge. At the moment it still has potential to end up great, or terrible.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2016, 04:11:44 AM
At the moment it still has potential to end up great, or terrible.

Same with anything really :p
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 02, 2016, 04:29:48 AM
At the moment it still has potential to end up great, or terrible.

Same with anything really :p

Not really. Here it just comes down to much (or little) information is available, and at this point we have nothing but some names to go on, which are a bit of a mixed bag, but nothing that's a deal breaker. Things will become much clearer once we have a confirmed cast, and a trailer, etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2016, 04:53:43 AM
I even heard a rumour that Alex Kurtzman might not be the exec producer anymore.

If that's true it's like the Star Trek Gods are giving you what you want :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 02, 2016, 05:07:37 AM
I'm actually not too concerned about Alex Kurtzman having an executive producer credit. That's a bit of a token credit most of the time. Both Kurtzman and Orci were executive producers on Transformers Prime, which surprisingly was a damn good series, especially for a kid's cartoon. Unlike the movies, it actually had continuity and internal consistency!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2016, 05:10:54 AM
Yes and Into Darkness had a lot more problems than 2009 and it also had Damon Lindelof as writer and producer.

Also - a few people have said that whilst the script writing is not that great - the actual dialogue in the last two movies were pretty good.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2016, 05:12:49 AM
What would be your ideal new Star Trek series ?

I'd love a new series set around Star Trek 6 time - with those spaceship interiors. i think they looked the best.

Or a new TNG - era show set in the JJ -verse - which won't happen because Paramount owns that "universe" and CBS owns the tv "universe"...

I think a TOS - era show with modern production could be good. Like I said before - you only ever focused on The Enterprise in TOS so having another ship from that timeline could be cool.

You just have the " Make it look old but futuristic at the same time " problem.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 02, 2016, 05:30:31 AM
I'd like to see prime universe, set 15 years after the end of Voyager, ie. the realtime amount since the series finished. You wouldn't even need to acknowledge it or have crossovers, at least for a while, but you'd get the cumulative benefit of the entire prime universe, without being boxed in by canon like with Enterprise, and fans would accept it.
I've seen some awesome fan ship designs from that era that would be perfect too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2016, 06:59:28 AM
Series about the building of the Uss Vengeance :neverusethis:

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 02, 2016, 07:29:17 AM
I'd like to see prime universe, set 15 years after the end of Voyager, ie. the realtime amount since the series finished. You wouldn't even need to acknowledge it or have crossovers, at least for a while, but you'd get the cumulative benefit of the entire prime universe, without being boxed in by canon like with Enterprise, and fans would accept it.
That's what I would want.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 02, 2016, 07:46:35 AM
I'd like to see prime universe, set 15 years after the end of Voyager, ie. the realtime amount since the series finished. You wouldn't even need to acknowledge it or have crossovers, at least for a while, but you'd get the cumulative benefit of the entire prime universe, without being boxed in by canon like with Enterprise, and fans would accept it.
That's what I would want.

(https://i.imgur.com/vGiwG8U.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2016, 11:09:34 AM
" Everybody Hates Tuvok "

(https://i.imgur.com/zc5G3aG.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 02, 2016, 11:14:06 AM
Strange meme.  I thought Tuvok was awesome, and I thought he was generally considered one of the better characters in the Star Trek universe.

Is it because he's black?  And if people don't like that, can we at least agree on the total absurdity of the term "African-American Vulcan" which makes no fucking sense, yet was how he was often described when Voyager first came out?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 02, 2016, 11:17:22 AM
Yeah, Tuvok was definitely one of the best Vulcans. He was the one that never got watered down.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2016, 11:22:55 AM
He was ok. Tim Russ seemed to be channeling Nimoy.

Zachary Quinto seemed to be channeling Tim Russ. He just had the angst but not much of Nimoy's calm.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 02, 2016, 11:30:52 AM
But it made perfect sense for Tim Russ to channel Leonard Nimoy.  Tuvok would unquestionably be compared to Spock, and if anything was different, there would be those who complained, loudly.  Any difference could be good or bad, but the detractors would be loud.  Between that and the fact that he's black, Russ was practically in a no-win situation.  He had to make Tuvok essentially a black Spock.  The mannerisms, the voice, everything.  And I thought he did a great job.  Over time, some variation crept in, which was good.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 02, 2016, 11:31:28 AM
Isn't it obvious they wanted to put their own spin and not play it like Spock?  To us, not one person is alike so I'll assume the same for any alien race.  Some are better are repressing their feelings than others.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 02, 2016, 11:34:43 AM
I've noticed that other than Spock - a lot of the Vulcan characters on Star Trek were just angry or arrogant.

T'Pol was one of the worst. She played it the most arrogant.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 02, 2016, 09:38:16 PM
I've noticed that other than Spock - a lot of the Vulcan characters on Star Trek were just angry or arrogant.

T'Pol was one of the worst. She played it the most arrogant.

Given the relationship between humans and Vulcans in ENT, that seemed to be their intention. They screwed up so badly with the Vulcans in ENT that they then tried to make up some BS in S4 that Vulcans were doing it wrong and had to find their original teachings. Such crap.

And where did this everybody hates Tuvok thing come from? Who hates Tuvok?
Back when I'd only seen the TOS movies, I actually preferred Tuvok to Spock. After seeing TOS, I then preferred Spock, but those two and Mark Lenard are the only great Vulcans.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on March 02, 2016, 09:53:37 PM
I love Tuvok. I'm sad his character wasn't given the development arc that he deserved.

Spock and Sarek set the standard of course. I also didn't mind T'pol, but yea ENT made the Vulcans super non-Vulcan.

However, I'd have to say my least favorite Vulcan is Quinto Spock. I love the actor, just really didn't like his Spock what so ever.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 02, 2016, 10:07:32 PM
Spock's a great Vulcan, but with a caveat. It was his conflict and eventual embrace of his humanity that made him great. When he was young and trying to be the Vulcan hardass he was great. When he died and came back confused he was good. When he got old and wisdom allowed him to strike a nice balance he was great again. Reunification era Spock was excellent, and the "I have no regrets" scene with Data was a high point of his character, I think.

Tuvok was just a run of the mill Vulcan hardass, but that also made him great. He was pure Vulcan, and still quite interesting. The only other regularly occurring Vulcans all had various peculiarities or eccentricities.

And looking over my first paragraph, it occurs to me that Spock is pretty unique in that it's very rare to see any character evolve as much as he did over a span of nearly 50 years. He aged 124 years between Lt. Spock in The Cage/Menagerie and Ambassador Spock in Unification. Over that span his character evolved very similarly to the actor that played him.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 03, 2016, 02:38:55 PM
Rod Rodenberry is now executive producer.

No word on whether he's replaced Alex Kurtzman.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 03, 2016, 07:26:04 PM
This is an even stranger token choice than the last. I like Rod Roddenberry, but he has no experience with a real show.
Just give me one clear reassuring name that I can trust to not royally screw this up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on March 03, 2016, 07:37:45 PM
At this point I kind of expect Walter Koenig or even Bill Shatner to be named Executive Producer.

I have a feeling the meetings go "What name will make old fans get excited?" and they just pay that person to be an executive producer.

Show me a cast, directors, writers. A premise would be good too. Executive producers don't mean much. Stephen Spielberg was executive producer on Transformers.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 03, 2016, 09:05:33 PM
This is an even stranger token choice than the last. I like Rod Roddenberry, but he has no experience with a real show.
Just give me one clear reassuring name that I can trust to not royally screw this up.
I don't know a thing about Rod Roddenberry, but this actually seems slightly encouraging. Of course I think GR was a menace and his vision made TNG blow. However, at least his vision was actual Star Trek. If Jr. wants to carry on in the spirit his old man always intended, that suggests something very different than what they've been doing, or what I've suspected they'd do with this series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ZirconBlue on March 04, 2016, 10:00:12 AM
Executive producers don't mean much.

Unless they're the Show Runner. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 04, 2016, 10:21:53 AM
I'm pretty sure that Bryan Fuller is the show runner as well as Producer and Writer.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on March 04, 2016, 10:39:51 AM
Spock's a great Vulcan, but with a caveat. It was his conflict and eventual embrace of his humanity that made him great. When he was young and trying to be the Vulcan hardass he was great. When he died and came back confused he was good. When he got old and wisdom allowed him to strike a nice balance he was great again. Reunification era Spock was excellent, and the "I have no regrets" scene with Data was a high point of his character, I think.

Tuvok was just a run of the mill Vulcan hardass, but that also made him great. He was pure Vulcan, and still quite interesting. The only other regularly occurring Vulcans all had various peculiarities or eccentricities.

And looking over my first paragraph, it occurs to me that Spock is pretty unique in that it's very rare to see any character evolve as much as he did over a span of nearly 50 years. He aged 124 years between Lt. Spock in The Cage/Menagerie and Ambassador Spock in Unification. Over that span his character evolved very similarly to the actor that played him.

 :tup Great synopsis EB.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 13, 2016, 11:45:02 AM
So Star Trek Beyond is shooting additional footage with a new actress...

Maybe the original actress didn't work out in editing ?

Before anyone cries Trainwreck.. It's not uncommon for movies to get last minute reshoots. Captain America 3 did and Star trek 2 even did.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 13, 2016, 11:46:40 AM
Yeah sorry, but that sounds like last minute scrambling to me.





Trainwreck.  :'(
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 13, 2016, 12:01:26 PM
To you maybe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pick-up_(filmmaking)

It's a common thing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 13, 2016, 12:04:50 PM
I know it's common. I know how movies are made. But in this context, I can't imagine it being a good sign. I know of many movies that did reshoots to try to polish the turd at the last minute.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 13, 2016, 12:07:38 PM
Star trek 2. Back To The Future...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 13, 2016, 12:08:49 PM
Whatevs. I'm getting less interested all the time. I need a really good trailer to get me excited again. I'll still go and see it though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 13, 2016, 12:13:27 PM
Obviously I'll go and see it either way.


Because I'll need to be able to discuss all of the reasons why it failed miserably. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 13, 2016, 12:13:56 PM
I'm sure you will. 👍

:getoffmylawn:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 13, 2016, 09:52:29 PM
The most likely explanation would be that they needed a couple of scenes to explain something that people weren't picking up on. If you figure that the majority of what they initially shot was explosions, fistfights, motorcycle chases, and people running across conveyor belts, then it makes sense that they need to add another plot element here and there (thought it does seem odd that it would suddenly be important now, in the third installment).

If they did have to reshoot some scenes featuring somebody that didn't work out, it'd be highly concerning that they just figured it out now. Replacing characters in ST isn't a new thing (Geneviève Bujold), but you normally figure it out while you're shooting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on March 13, 2016, 09:58:41 PM
The most likely explanation would be that they needed a couple of scenes to explain something that people weren't picking up on. If you figure that the majority of what they initially shot was explosions, fistfights, motorcycle chases, and people running across conveyor belts, then it makes sense that they need to add another plot element here and there (thought it does seem odd that it would suddenly be important now, in the third installment).

If they did have to reshoot some scenes featuring somebody that didn't work out, it'd be highly concerning that they just figured it out now. Replacing characters in ST isn't a new thing (Geneviève Bujold), but you normally figure it out while you're shooting.

Personally, I think that they didn't like the actress's original hairstyle so they are reshooting with a new hairdo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 20, 2016, 01:51:48 PM
https://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/green-room-new-trailer-promises-you-wont-forget-patrick-stewart/

Trailer for new horror movie starring Patrick Stewart as a Nazi.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 20, 2016, 06:42:00 PM
The joke's on him. I'd let Patrick Stewart keep me hostage any day.




I've said too much.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on March 26, 2016, 01:55:55 AM
Fellas, I'm having a grand time watch TOS, it'll be a sad day when I run out of episodes..
If you guys recall; I took a long hiatus after watching Space Seed, about a year. A few month back I picked up on Barto's list and been posting about it, then I lost my job and oddly that got me posting less but I'm still watching, so yesterday I scrolled all the way up the Netflix season 1 list and got interested in watching The Cage, which is not on the list, without any background knowledge about the production history for the episode. Throughout the episode I had a strong deja vu feeling about everything even though I've never seen this episode according to Netflix and Barto's list, so I read up on it and found out why, The Menagerie, which I proceeded to rewatch both parts of it after The Cage last night.
So I just came here to say that this, for my money, was the most clever possible thing the show runners could have come up with to reuse the unaired pilot and incorporate it into the show, absolutely brilliant, I think modern tv producers would have made a bull shit episode where Talos IV gets mentioned somehow as a gateway for Spock to tell the story of The Cage and send us on a flashback for the rest of it, but what they've done here was very original and engaging with minimal plot holes.
Also fine job on picking the actor playing severely injured Christopher Pike in The Menagerie, it worked perfectly to have him so banged up because the original actor was not available but also in the context of the plot, I thought the make-up was gruesome and decent enough for the sixties. Pike's character arc worked beautifully for something that was not intended to be that way.
Jeffrey Hunter, Pike in The Cage, died a couple of years after The Menagerie was broadcasted at age 42, pretty tragic, great actor, anybody thinks he would have made a better lead throughout the show had The Cage been approved as the pilot? I'm 50/50 on that, he's a better actor than Shatner IMO.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 26, 2016, 01:58:08 AM
Acting ability is irrelevant. It's the Shat! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on March 26, 2016, 02:07:22 AM
Case closed :lol, man that guy cracks me up so damn much, I've recently noticed that he always has that maybe-we'll-fuck-later smile whenever he speaks to women and it's the single cheesiest thing on TOS, undisputed, no alien make up or corny dialogue tops that smile, it's especially funny seeing how no actress has been able to react to it in a way that acknowledges it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 26, 2016, 05:30:39 AM
Acting ability is irrelevant. It's the Shat! :lol

They




Don't





Understand.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 26, 2016, 05:36:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArU0A0sEg_8
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on March 26, 2016, 05:43:21 AM
 :lol

I've always wanted to slowly enunciate with each blow I throw I've landed in a fight. Seems like a great release.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 26, 2016, 06:21:24 PM
Not only was The Menagerie a great way to use existing footage that was very good in its own right, the new footage made for an excellent episode as well. I consider it pretty easily a top 5 episode.

While I'm perfectly fine with Jeff Hunter as Pike, I'm always hesitant to consider changes to something that really worked. Even if they film the same episodes, is the show as good if Nimoy and Hunter don't hate each other? If Takai and Nichols get increased airtime to develop their characters, does it improve the show?

And I never would have included The Cage and The Menagerie, for obvious reasons, but I thought I did provide an explanation as to how the two worked.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on March 26, 2016, 09:06:11 PM
I must have missed it Barto, still enjoyed the episodes though.
According to something Pike said in The Cage; I finally gathered that Yeoman is a title, not someone's name, took me a while to figure that out heh
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on March 27, 2016, 03:31:10 PM
"Sir, there's a multilegged creature crawling on your shoulder" :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 27, 2016, 03:36:05 PM
"Sir, there's a multilegged creature crawling on your shoulder" :lol

That reminds me of the TNG episode where that guy eats a bug at the end and he gets phasered until his head and chest blow up.

It was always cut on TV and I didn't see it uncut til Netflix.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 27, 2016, 03:39:55 PM
:lol  That's a somewhat simplified description of what's going on in that scene, but basically accurate.  Also, I remember as I watched that scene, that that was easily the best special effects I'd ever seen on Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on March 27, 2016, 03:42:23 PM
It's a great episode. I love how Riker pretends to be with them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 27, 2016, 04:06:00 PM
"Sir, there's a multilegged creature crawling on your shoulder" :lol
You must be jumping around all over the place. Or you're re-watching some. Great episode, though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on March 28, 2016, 12:56:09 AM
During the day I do reruns since there are distractions, then at night a new episode :)
Taste of Armageddon is so good, I can't quite digest the logic behind the computer war deal; both sides will kill what the other side would have killed if they had actually bombed them, so what are they saving here? property damage?!
I also credit this episode for an excellent Kirk fight scene, not only was it the best choreographed fight scene of the entire show so far but also Shatner didn't use a body double for it, which he excessively does in all other episodes fight scenes, with very poor effort on the director's behalf to hide the stuntman's face.
The Asian yeoman was hot and Mea 3 was simply beautiful.
Of all the episodes I've seen recently there has only been two that I found so-so, which are The Apple and Who Mourns for Adonais.
I, Mudd is also of note for being brilliant and hilarious.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on March 28, 2016, 07:43:31 AM
Taste of Armageddon is so good, I can't quite digest the logic behind the computer war deal; both sides will kill what the other side would have killed if they had actually bombed them, so what are they saving here? property damage?!

It was another of those "we have advanced beyond the barbaric practices of our ancestors" type of things.  The computer simulations were tied to the tech which actually existed on both sides, so yeah, they knew exactly what the damage would be (in terms of both deaths and property) and thus didn't actually need to bomb the hell out of each other.  Because that's so uncivilized.  So they run their simulated war, and the appropriate number of people go to the death chambers on each side, having been labelled casualties of war.

Kirk was appalled by this.  War should be ugly and nasty, something to be avoided.  These people had developed it and sanitized it to where it basically served as population control, and the population as a whole could continue to advance.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 28, 2016, 10:04:11 AM
Who Mourns for Adonis was shit. I liked The Apple, though. Good example of a completely stagnant society which was also quite happy and successful. Chekhov's old lady was also pretty high on the list of hot Star Trek babes. And when Kirk belted the guy and made him cry it really cracked me up. Also one of the highest redshirt body counts in the series. I think only Obsession might have had more dead ones.

As for AToA, it was property damage. They were particularly artistic and quite proud of it. Kirk's observation was correct, in that they had removed the incentive to try and end the war. Once voluntarily immolating yourself became an expected social norm then the war never ends.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on March 31, 2016, 12:07:01 AM
Great concept, a couple of last observations about A Taste of Armageddon:
- Scotty is so the man! I like how he stood up to ambassador Fox, even Spock would have backed down once Fox started talking of regulations and laws, like he did with Commodore Decker in The Doomsday Machine.
- I think it's a good rule of thumb to assume that anyone that steps foot on the Enterprise and happens to outrank Kirk, or can override his orders, is going to be a dick.
I've been a Seth MacFarlane fan for years now, often times he'd express an opinion or a thought that has been on my mind for a long time but I never bother expressing it, I never had that with any celebrity or even normal people, basically the guy is a motivated successful version of me and the reason I bring that up is that I found this little gem (https://youtu.be/txjjhSAhe_0) when I was looking up things about A Taste of Armageddon, what he says about one of the reasons he liked Star Trek is on of my main attractions to the show.
This Side of Paradise, fun light episode I thought, I found it funny that Kirk again chooses to racially insult Spock as a way to get his attention like he did in the What Are Little Girls Made Of. But also in The Menagerie I noticed that the federation general order 7 (https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/8/8a/GeneralOrder7.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20050113015119&path-prefix=en) made note of referring to Spock as "half Vulcan", dunno why that is or of it means anything but there doesn't seem to be any other indications of human supremacy yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on March 31, 2016, 09:37:26 AM
I'm a big fan of anything that challenges a purported dystopia. This comes up quite a bit in Star Trek where societies have a working civilization that doesn't jibe with good ole American values. It's always the episodes that rely heavily on ethical dilemmas that interest me the most, and the implications of judging other cultures is a doozy. Both AToA and The Apple do this pretty well.

This is also one of the saving graces of TNG. This sort of situation also pops up there. They're just approached differently. To maintain the status of Picard as the paragon of all human virtue, the plots usually work themselves out so that he doesn't have to be Kirk and pull the plug on a retarded society, but the conflict is often times still present.

I should actually make a scorecard and see how Kirk does in disrupting societies. Seems he usually makes alright choices.

- Scotty is so the man! I like how he stood up to ambassador Fox, even Spock would have backed down once Fox started talking of regulations and laws, like he did with Commodore Decker in The Doomsday Machine.
Anytime Scotty or Sulu (and DeSalle, for that matter) get put in charge of the ship they usually man up quite a bit. I always like episodes where Kirk and Spock are off getting into trouble and somebody else has to rescue them.

Quote
I think it's a good rule of thumb to assume that anyone that steps foot on the Enterprise and happens to outrank Kirk, or can override his orders, is going to be a dick.
Or grossly incompetent. I will say that there's a difference between Decker and Fox. One is just some diplomat with no command experience while Decker outranked even Kirk and possessed a great deal of starship command experience.

And wait til Metamorphosis where the person that can override his orders is a bitchy woman. Man, you're just waiting for her to finally die.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on March 31, 2016, 08:22:09 PM
I should actually make a scorecard and see how Kirk does in disrupting societies. Seems he usually makes alright choices.

That's not what my scorecard says. :lol

(https://www.blobvandam.com/link/troll_kirk.jpg)

In reality I reckon about half of these planets would have just died out within a year of Kirk's interference.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 01, 2016, 08:14:18 AM
I was merely going by my personal opinion of whether or not the planet was screwed up enough to "fix." Not whether it was playing it by the book or whether or not the longterm implications would have played out well. I tend to be far more tolerant of "dystopias" than most.  However, in the ones I've recently seen, The People of Vaal probably would have been alright. He says (I think) that they left advisers behind to lend a hand. Honestly sounds like Christian missionaries to me, but they wouldn't have starved and they wouldn't have all died of staph infections. In AToA they left that asshole Fox behind who presumably would have helped to broker a truce between the planets. Better in the long run, although population control could have been a real problem down the road.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on April 03, 2016, 08:31:40 PM
I just watched The Devil in the Dark and it agrees with Barto on Kirk's choices!
I'm dreading jumping back into season 2 since I find the Russian guy too annoying and too fake, I know the guy playing Scotty isn't a Scotsman either but the actor playing the Russian guy is just.. blah. Way to go however for an American TV show during the cold war to foresee that eventually things will be okay with Russia. Also I dunno if there were black judges in the late 60's yet but there was one on the Court Martial episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 04, 2016, 02:19:40 AM
Chekov is definitely better in the movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 04, 2016, 08:11:47 AM
Walter Koenig's folks were Russian immigrants and it shows in his normal speaking voice. He's got a slight natural Rooskie accent. And with most of the TOS characters they're all over the place. Scott can be a rough and tumble guy, or he can get the hots on some chick and act like a complete puss. Aside from Kirk, most of the crew turn into jello when there's a love interest.

And Season 2 is great. All kinds of good episodes in there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 04, 2016, 08:15:47 AM
S2 is definitely the most consistently good season overall, although S1 is equally good from The Menagerie onwards.
When a season kicks off with Amok Time though, I say you're off to a pretty good start. It's strange to think that there was a season of Star Trek before what that episode established. Off topic, I saw the actress who played T'Pau in an episode of The Twilight Zone a couple of days ago. Recognized that voice instantly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 07, 2016, 04:51:38 PM
Watched The Ultimate Computer today, which I always found to be a very good episode, but big chunks of it were problematic. Why'd the M5 blow up the cargo ship? Why'd the M5 ignore the all important instruction it was clearly expecting about the attack being a drill? Why was the M5 so quick to cop to murdering the Excalibur crew which it had already defended as an exercise of self defense? I think they actually hit upon the answer to a lot of this, but no where near enough for it to actually register. We know that Daystrom used his own mind as part of the M5's programming, and we know that Daystrom was batshit insane. But that still doesn't add up. What the episode needed was 3 minutes of dialog relating it to The Tempest or Forbidden Planet. If they'd even just eluded to the idea that it was Daystrom's lingering but suppressed misanthropy that was fucking up the M5 it would have made a huge difference. Actually writing that it was actually internally conflicted by it's surface level morality and underlying resentment, both inherited from Daystrom, would have elevated it to one of the great episodes, I think.

I always assumed that the story was just a simple cop out. People are irrational and using a person's mind to program a computer will make it big and scary. All of the components were actually in place to make it a much more compelling thing. So did anybody actually pick up on any of this. Was it actually there and I just never noticed?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 07, 2016, 11:18:32 PM
I always just chalk the entire episode down to computers/robots = bad, people = good, a common theme in the history of scifi in the west, especially in that era.

The story only really touches upon the general survival instinct it inherited, and how the machine lacked the compassion necessary to make decisions about human life.
It wouldn't have taken much to relate it more specifically to Daystrom's own personality traits like megalomania being imprinted upon it, but the only conclusion the episode really gave was that human emotions are a positive trait we have over a cold illogical computer to give us a sense of morality, which is fine too. It could have had more impact to contrast it specifically to one human's mind to compare man and machine, rather than the solution being yet another "Kirk nags a computer to death" scenario.

I agree, they set it up to be potentially more compelling than it ultimately was, but I don't think the episode ever intended anything beyond what was given in the final elevator conversation about computers not having emotions.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 08, 2016, 10:53:56 AM
I know this is a repost because I'm pretty sure I'm the one who posted it before.  But I stumbled across it on another site and I still think it's awesome so here it is again.

(https://i.imgur.com/gvY3EGR.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 08, 2016, 10:57:31 AM
 :metal
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 08, 2016, 12:02:56 PM
I always just chalk the entire episode down to computers/robots = bad, people = good, a common theme in the history of scifi in the west, especially in that era.

The story only really touches upon the general survival instinct it inherited, and how the machine lacked the compassion necessary to make decisions about human life.
It wouldn't have taken much to relate it more specifically to Daystrom's own personality traits like megalomania being imprinted upon it, but the only conclusion the episode really gave was that human emotions are a positive trait we have over a cold illogical computer to give us a sense of morality, which is fine too. It could have had more impact to contrast it specifically to one human's mind to compare man and machine, rather than the solution being yet another "Kirk nags a computer to death" scenario.

I agree, they set it up to be potentially more compelling than it ultimately was, but I don't think the episode ever intended anything beyond what was given in the final elevator conversation about computers not having emotions.
Yeah, that's what I took away from it. It just seems like they threw some things in there specifically to set up something they didn't bother with. There were numerous references to Daystrom being off his nut, which in retrospect are all quite pointless. He could have been Garth of Izar nuts for all the difference that actually made on the M5. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PetFish on April 09, 2016, 01:04:34 AM
That fake concert ad is amazing!... although I really hate the episode.  I think the premise is promising and interesting but find the language barrier to be ridiculous.  I didn't know Picard was a lefty.  Lefties scare me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 09, 2016, 01:17:27 AM
People are often scared of superiority. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 10, 2016, 07:04:25 PM
Possible repost.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZcSUJrR.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 11, 2016, 08:27:15 AM
lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 13, 2016, 02:53:17 PM
The New STAR TREK TV Show Will Be Set Before THE NEXT GENERATION (https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/04/13/the-new-star-trek-tv-show-will-be-set-before-the-next-generation)

Obviously, until CBS makes an official statement, take this with a grain of salt.

But what do you think?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on April 13, 2016, 02:56:27 PM
The New STAR TREK TV Show Will Be Set Before THE NEXT GENERATION (https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/04/13/the-new-star-trek-tv-show-will-be-set-before-the-next-generation)

Obviously, until CBS makes an official statement, take this with a grain of salt.

But what do you think?

Eh.......still not a fan of moving backwards. The update where it says that it's seasonal is both good and bad. Cool in the sense that, yea, we could go anywhere, but bad in the sense that how are we going to connect to the characters if they could potentially be seasonal?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 13, 2016, 03:11:45 PM
Nick Meyer has said he wanted to set it around the time of Star trek 6.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 13, 2016, 03:20:00 PM
Paramount have said that proper full on marketing for Star Trek Beyond starts in May.

Well that's something...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 13, 2016, 03:38:22 PM
The New STAR TREK TV Show Will Be Set Before THE NEXT GENERATION (https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/04/13/the-new-star-trek-tv-show-will-be-set-before-the-next-generation)

Obviously, until CBS makes an official statement, take this with a grain of salt.

But what do you think?

Eh.......still not a fan of moving backwards. The update where it says that it's seasonal is both good and bad. Cool in the sense that, yea, we could go anywhere, but bad in the sense that how are we going to connect to the characters if they could potentially be seasonal?
Not sure what to make of the seasonal thing. I've advocated a serial approach, which would be awesome. If they were going to take a similar approach, where each season would be set in a different era, or a different part of the galaxy, then I could see that working. At the same time, if they're talking about 24 episode seasons, then that's probably too long to invest in something transient.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 13, 2016, 10:02:10 PM
Seasonal anthology sounds like a bad idea to me for various reasons, so I hope that's not true. I don't like the idea of setting it pre-TNG either, because they'll encounter the same problems as Enterprise, of being boxed into canon and breaking from that and pissing off fans if they deviate too far. I think the only way to go with the prime universe is post-Nemesis.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on April 13, 2016, 10:06:25 PM
Seasonal anthology sounds like a bad idea to me for various reasons, so I hope that's not true. I don't like the idea of setting it pre-TNG either, because they'll encounter the same problems as Enterprise, of being boxed into canon and breaking from that and pissing off fans if they deviate too far. I think the only way to go with the prime universe is post-Nemesis.

Yea I have no idea why they wouldn't go post-Nemesis. You can get literally any (living) TNG, Voyager or DS9 person to show up, you can go nuts with technology etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 13, 2016, 11:19:10 PM
Exactly. That era would allow them the entire sandbox of the prime universe with no restrictions, the ability to make it as futuristic as they want, plus they could potentially bring back any character from the TNG>VOY Trek era if they wanted to.
The era they've chosen is possibly even more restrictive than ENT, and that was plagued with continuity problems.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 14, 2016, 10:10:14 AM
I don't think canon is really a problem unless they want it to be. ENT screwed it up because they wanted to be gimmicky and cram in every single reference they could. The likelihood of it being a problem is largely dependent upon where it's set. If they're constantly running into the same people we've always seen then it gets complicated. If they're off in Bumfuck corners of the quadrant then not so much. They also don't have to worry about all of the creation stuff. The technology wasn't really functionally different between TOS and TNG, so it's not like they're going to be doing episodes about transporters and phasers being some grand new creation.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 14, 2016, 10:22:24 AM
We'll see. I imagine they'll want to include all of the iconic stuff people are going to want to see to pull in viewers, where it will be all too easy to step on the toes of past series. I'm wondering what motivated the choice of that particular time period if not to cover something already established in more detail, otherwise post Nemesis would make much more sense, even if you wanted to stick to the Bumfuck Zone of the Canon-Safe Quadrant. Especially if you wanted to stick to the Bumfuck Zone of the Canon-Safe Quadrant.

And I think even if they stick to the established technology and canon, they'll likely run into a similar situation to ENT, which is that it has to look futuristic while also fitting into a now dated era. ENT always looked more futuristic than TOS, because it's hard to make a 2000s futuristic show look like it predates a 1960s futuristic show. It's not quite as bad in this situation, but we're still talking 25-30 years ago.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 14, 2016, 10:51:05 AM
The "anthology" thing sounds like they are approaching this kind of like some newer shows such as True Detective and American Horror Story, where (in theory) you spend one season telling a detailed serialized story, but then the next season you tell a completely unrelated story.

If they can pull it off, it's an intriguing idea, and certainly something new for Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 14, 2016, 11:18:39 AM
Like I've said, I like the anthology approach if that's what they're actually doing. I just thought it'd be better in one or two episode chunks. If a season for this is 12 episodes it might work fine. I also wouldn't necessarily assume that each series is set in the same era. My notion was to set it in all of the various eras set apart from the established narratives.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 14, 2016, 11:48:12 AM
Like I've said, I like the anthology approach if that's what they're actually doing. I just thought it'd be better in one or two episode chunks. If a season for this is 12 episodes it might work fine. I also wouldn't necessarily assume that each series is set in the same era. My notion was to set it in all of the various eras set apart from the established narratives.
That's the impression I got from the info yesterday.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 14, 2016, 12:04:28 PM
Personally I prefer episodic series where you can just watch any episode out of order like TNG.

I was a big fan of DS9 until you had to watch every episode to know what was going on.

if you miss a few episodes you've no idea what's going on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ZirconBlue on April 14, 2016, 12:38:44 PM
Personally I prefer episodic series where you can just watch any episode out of order like TNG.

I was a big fan of DS9 until you had to watch every episode to know what was going on.

if you miss a few episodes you've no idea what's going on.

I couldn't disagree more.  Serialization allows the creators to truly take advantage of the storytelling advantages of television.  Having each episode end by hitting the cosmic reset button makes it nearly impossible to have real story and character development.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on April 14, 2016, 01:24:13 PM
The Alternative Factor, there's a decent idea buried somewhere in this episode but it's been completely overshadowed by how much the episode drags and how generally repetitive it is. I actually watched this over two viewings cause I was too bored to finish it at once.
Operation: Annihilate, I liked this one, entertaining performances for all the cast. Kirk's display of emotions over his brother's death didn't differ much than when a red shirt dies; brief signs of discomfort that's completely gone by the end of the episode heh
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on April 14, 2016, 01:59:27 PM
Personally I prefer episodic series where you can just watch any episode out of order like TNG.

I was a big fan of DS9 until you had to watch every episode to know what was going on.

if you miss a few episodes you've no idea what's going on.

But I doubt they want to make the show as a thing to watch from time to time whenever. Plus it's not on TV. It's online. There's no reason you can't watch them all in order.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on April 14, 2016, 05:20:43 PM
The Alternative Factor, there's a decent idea buried somewhere in this episode but it's been completely overshadowed by how much the episode drags and how generally repetitive it is. I actually watched this over two viewings cause I was too bored to finish it at once.
Operation: Annihilate, I liked this one, entertaining performances for all the cast. Kirk's display of emotions over his brother's death didn't differ much than when a red shirt dies; brief signs of discomfort that's completely gone by the end of the episode heh
Two bottom tier episodes for me. TAF was awful. The character of Lazerus and the conclusion of two people battling for the rest of eternity both had high potential, but the execution just wasn't there. A:O was alright, but not much more. I did like the fact that they all blamed McCoy for blinding Spock when Spock's the God damned science officer. Seems to me he's the one that should have known better.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on April 14, 2016, 08:49:32 PM
I don't like the art style as well here, but it has what I always thought the other one should have, which is both of them in the picture.

(https://i.imgur.com/HC8ofxo.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 15, 2016, 12:05:33 PM
STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN Director’s Edition debuts on Blu-ray June 7th (https://trekmovie.com/2016/04/15/star-trek-ii-the-wrath-of-khan-directors-edition-debuts-on-blu-ray-june-7th/)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 17, 2016, 02:27:41 PM
I wouldn't mind it but i've got it on DVD twice already and that's the directors extended cut with loads of extras...


I might do.


IN OTHER NEWS : Paramount has said there is a Fan Event on May 20th and they will debut the full length STAR TREK BEYOND trailer and it will also be the start of the big marketing push

for the movie.

Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on April 22, 2016, 05:53:25 AM
If the era between ST6 and ST7 will indeed be what they are going for I applaud them. :metal

A story is only ever going to feel more real, rich, and rooted when embedded in a well developed context (cultural, historcial, political, social, ...). Sure, going post ST10 would probably be easier and more open. But I would hardly call the era between Kirk and Picard "boxed into canon". J. J. Abrams wanted to be free of canon and the result so far was bland action and a variation of the very canon he tried to get rid of.

It's a highly interesting period in the original/prime/real Trek universe with not too many known details. It's a time with a lot going on diplomatically and politically. The Khitomer conference is over. The reality and results of its decisions and definitions just kicking in with many different interpretations of right and wrong and probably a lot of characters trying to shape and move the future into a direction favorable to their little corner of the galaxy. It's a cross country race with the start, a few known checkpoints (Sarek's diplomatical involvement, Narendra III, Tasha's crossover and Sela, the Khitomer massacre, the house of Mogh, ...), and the finish clearly defined, yet the rest is open to bring to life in a bold and creative way.

Pretty much all rumours and facts about the new show feel like an honest dedication to deliver some quality new science fiction. Of course it may very well fail but at least they seem to be determined to make Trek great again.

Which means I'm hopeful and of a positive attitude. And that's a very, very rare thing.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 22, 2016, 06:00:58 AM
J. J. Abrams wanted to be free of canon and the result so far was bland action and a variation of the very canon he tried to get rid of.

Yes, but that's because JJ's and his writers are a bunch of talentless hacks who wouldn't know real scifi if it sucked them into a wormhole. :biggrin:

To me most of these announcements so far seem like humoring the fans, rather than being genuinely concerned about the quality of the show. A lot of people who haven't done anything of note in decades. Can they deliver? I truly hope so, but I haven't seen anything solid to make me optimistic at this stage. I want to be proven wrong of course! Trek isn't working on the big screen, so hopefully they don't screw it up where it best delivers.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on April 22, 2016, 11:18:28 AM
Here's an idea.

A ship and crew from the Undiscovered Country era..........but IN a post-Nemesis era. Oh yea. How do they cope with the loss of everyone they loved? How do they adjust to all the new technology? How will they deal with being living relics?

Oh yes, that's right. I'm talking...

Star Trek: Bozeman. Starring Kelsey Grammar.

You want it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 22, 2016, 11:19:27 AM
You had me at Kelsey Grammar.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 22, 2016, 11:36:02 AM
They could certainly do a lot worse.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 22, 2016, 11:37:12 AM
It would be worth it just to have the classic opening monologue spoken by Kelsey Grammar.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 22, 2016, 11:39:50 AM
David Hyde Pierce as his #1?

:neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 22, 2016, 11:41:25 AM
David Hyde Pierce as his #1?

:neverusethis:

Fuck it, let's just call it "Frasier In Space".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on April 22, 2016, 11:42:24 AM
David Hyde Pierce as his #1?

:neverusethis:

Fuck it, let's just call it "Frasier In Space".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2hs0oZ6JuQ
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on April 22, 2016, 11:43:07 AM
 :lol

I forgot about that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 22, 2016, 11:44:00 AM
Yeah, me too. :lol Wasn't that long ago I watched it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 26, 2016, 04:25:45 PM
https://trekcore.com/blog/2016/04/simon-pegg-talks-about-star-trek-beyonds-reshoots/

Simon Pegg talks reshoots and Justin Lin.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on April 26, 2016, 05:45:46 PM
David Hyde Pierce as his #1?

:neverusethis:

Fuck it, let's just call it "Frasier In Space".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2hs0oZ6JuQ

Thought it was going to be that clip of Cause and Effect with Frasier dialogue dubbed in.

Not seen this. i'll watch it soon.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 02, 2016, 11:04:45 PM
Apparently the new show starts filming in Canada this fall.

Still no set in stone cast, right?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 03, 2016, 12:32:02 AM
I haven't heard anything beyond a couple of rumours. They're probably just building the sets right now.
It's a shame it's filming in Toronto and not Vancouver, the true home of scifi. :blob:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 03, 2016, 12:43:22 AM
I haven't heard anything beyond a couple of rumours. They're probably just building the sets right now.
It's a shame it's filming in Toronto and not Vancouver, the true home of scifi. :blob:

Yea, I read Toronto and was about to write Toronto but then I thought "wait...that can't be right, it has to be Vancouver!"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 03, 2016, 12:50:58 AM
There are some other scifi/fantasy shows that have been shot in Toronto (Dark Matter and Warehouse 13 off the top of my head), but Vancouver has a lot more. Plus being in Vancouver would probably increase the chances of seeing actors from other scifi shows pop up, which would be awesome.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 03, 2016, 05:25:30 AM
So the new trailer drops & promotion starts proper on May 20.

I don't want a "darker" trailer than last time. i'm fed up of DARK . Not everything has to be The Dark Knight.

I just want a trailer that's more indicative of the final film.

I'm looking forward to new trailers and TV spots and interviews and stuff.

Also the film is out on July 22  ;D ;D It's so close. I can't wait.

Even if it's as bad as Insurrection - i'll probably enjoy it *at the time* and less so later.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 03, 2016, 05:56:50 AM
If they made a movie as "bad" as Insurrection, it would be be their best movie since..... Insurrection, so I'd be thrilled with that. :biggrin:
I have zero expectations based on ID and the last trailer. My only hope at this point is that the series doesn't suck wang. Happy 50th anniversary Star Trek!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 03, 2016, 06:01:56 AM
A 90 second trailer says nothing. Especially since Pegg and Lin both said that Paramount just put all the action stuff in and it doesn't represent the film at all.

Sure if you're a pessimist you could call it "damage control" but they've been saying pretty much the same thing in every interview.

Plus - no Kurtzman and Orci writing. It's in deep space. Not on Earth. The lack of promotion has really extinguished the excitement I had for it.

Looking forward to getting excited again. I REALLY hope that at the end they have a brand new Enterprise which is closer in design to the 1701 Refit.

I love the "bulbous" JJ Abrams design but if they revealed a new one at the end with squarer nacelles that would be nice.



EDIT : And I really hate Insurrection. It looks SO cheap. ILM was sorely missed on that movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 03, 2016, 06:16:20 AM
I care more about story than fancy effects and explosions. The new movies looked a million bucks (more like 100+), and that didn't help them. :biggrin:
I wouldn't hold out on a new Enterprise either. They basically destroyed the thing in the last movie and didn't do it. Missed opportunity, but then again, that sums up the entire reboot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 06, 2016, 01:36:48 PM
https://trekcore.com/blog/2016/05/john-cho-star-trek-beyond-feels-like-the-best-of-tos/


Encouraging.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 06, 2016, 01:38:06 PM
INB4


 "well he would say that. "
" he's not gonna slag his new film "
" for his money I'd say whatever they told me ".


:hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 06, 2016, 02:02:53 PM
Well, all of those things are true.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 06, 2016, 02:10:49 PM
As cool as that is, it goes in face of the trailer, which is the only actual proof we have of what the movie is.

When we have a new trailer that supports.....any of that, I'll be open minded to that. At this point it's already really low on my interest list, but Star Trek (pre JJ) is very near and dear to me, so it's hard for this to be completely off my radar.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 06, 2016, 02:20:54 PM
You're right.

We all know that teaser trailers are always 100% representative of the final movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 06, 2016, 02:29:25 PM
You're right.

We all know that teaser trailers are always 100% representative of the final movie.

Of course they're not. But it is all I have seen of the movie. When I have a trailer that shows something different, I'll believe something different.

I mean if a band's bassist said that their new album really explores jazz concepts, then release a 30 second sample of nothing but brutal death metal, then you're justified in being a little skeptical.

Actually, that was almost the case (kind of) with DT12 and I think Jordan or whomever saying that Mangini brought all these crazy concepts to the band, then the actual album reflected none of that at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 06, 2016, 03:10:38 PM
I don't trust a guy who uses Instagram like a 12 yr old girl.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 06, 2016, 03:12:01 PM
I don't trust a guy who uses Instagram like a 12 yr old girl.

Hey, let's leave my instagram out of this okay?

Oh, you didn't mean me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 06, 2016, 03:14:33 PM
 :D Rudess. I just wish he could upload a picture.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 07, 2016, 12:12:51 AM
The amount of importance I place on Cho's opinion on the movie is exactly zero. If you can find me an interview where he's critical of the failures of the previous two movies, maybe it would have a bit more weight with me (and if such a thing does exist, I'd love to read it).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 07, 2016, 12:13:53 PM
You're right.

We all know that teaser trailers are always 100% representative of the final movie.

Of course they're not. But it is all I have seen of the movie. When I have a trailer that shows something different, I'll believe something different.
It was also a dead-ringer for the first two movies and what most of us disliked about them. In a vacuum I could go along with "it's not indicative and only there to drum up hype." With the first two as reference that doesn't work anymore.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 07, 2016, 01:26:13 PM
Different director and writers.

But If it's the same then Paramount is clearly calling the shots.

If that's the case then it makes no difference who is writing and directing.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 07, 2016, 01:34:48 PM
1 director and 5 writers.

The director does not inspire confidence. Of the 5 writers, one inspires some confidence (Pegg). 3 of them are completely unknown and I got nothing. The 5th is Roberto Orci.

So out of these 6 people, one is a sliver of hope. I'm going to remain skeptical until I have reason not to. Does this mean I'll hate the movie? Only if I don't like it. I will go into it  and the previews with an open mind. If the all of the previews look bad, I'll wait till it's out on DVD, but I will give it a try.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 07, 2016, 02:06:12 PM
Simon Pegg and Justin Lin confirmed that When Pegg and Jung came on board - they completely ditched Orci's script and started over.

Ocri and the other two still get a credit since they started out on the project or whatever. i don't understand it either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 07, 2016, 03:56:02 PM
Simon Pegg and Justin Lin confirmed that When Pegg and Jung came on board - they completely ditched Orci's script and started over.

Ocri and the other two still get a credit since they started out on the project or whatever. i don't understand it either.

Ah, I was just going by what's on IMDB. Fair enough. Is Pegg then writing the script completely by himself? Cause that's a lot of writers names there for no real reason then.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 07, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
Simon Pegg & Doug Jung.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 07, 2016, 04:03:50 PM
Yea, that's one of the guys I wasn't familiar with. I've never seen Dark Blue. Hopefully he's good. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 09, 2016, 02:59:55 PM
(https://img.trekmovie.com/images/merchandise/tng_movies_bd/shots/generations_9.jpg)



I'm obsessed with scale in movies. Those people look too big :p
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on May 09, 2016, 03:02:13 PM
They look about right compared to the shuttle crafts, so those too must be out of scale.  What's the supposed diameter of the saucer?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 09, 2016, 03:14:53 PM
Looks perfectly reasonable to me. Consider how long it would take one of those people to walk a quarter of the circumference, or from the outer edge to the center. That's a big-ass ship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 09, 2016, 03:37:35 PM
They look about right compared to the shuttle crafts, so those too must be out of scale.  What's the supposed diameter of the saucer?

The ship is supposed to be about 750m in length so the dish is roughly 325m long. It's oval shaped so say 350m wide ?



WIKI SAYS :

Length   642.5 metres (2,108 ft)
Width   463.73 metres (1,521.4 ft)
Height   195.26 metres (640.6 ft)


There's 1600m in a mile so it's like 1/4 of a mile wide .

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 09, 2016, 11:58:41 PM
It looks about right to me. Compare them to the size of the bridge module, the windows, or the escape pod hatches. The scaling isn't going to be perfect, but it's reasonable.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 12, 2016, 05:29:48 PM
If the anomaly is always bigger in the past, why is it visible several hours after it was created?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 12, 2016, 05:33:14 PM
:dunno: iunno


All Good Things is awesome. With a big budget - it could have been a TNG movie and would have been a way better send off than Nemesis.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 12, 2016, 05:35:48 PM
If the anomaly is always bigger in the past, why is it visible several hours after it was created?

I think it was technically created in the future timeline, where it wasn't present. Might be wrong, but in a bit since I've seen it. Plus I don't think "bigger in the past" means "invisible in the future". I assume there would be always be a tiny trace of it once it was created, just never anything more going forward.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 12, 2016, 05:43:52 PM
But when they went back to find it in the Enterprise, it hadn't actually been created yet. The Pasteur created it and it ran backward, expanding as it went. That's why they couldn't actually see it from the Pasteur. Upon their return it was, from the anomalies standpoint, several hours away from being created. 

And I'm not slagging on the episode, I think it was one of their best efforts. It just never occurred to me that the premise completely falls apart in the final 20 minutes until I watched it earlier today. Technically, the future Enterprise couldn't have played a part in the resolution since it hadn't even started yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 12, 2016, 05:47:00 PM
But when they went back to find it in the Enterprise, it hadn't actually been created yet. The Pasteur created it and it ran backward, expanding as it went. That's why they couldn't actually see it from the Pasteur. Upon their return it was, from the anomalies standpoint, several hours away from being created. 

And I'm not slagging on the episode, I think it was one of their best efforts. It just never occurred to me that the premise completely falls apart in the final 20 minutes until I watched it earlier today. Technically, the future Enterprise couldn't have played a part in the resolution since it hadn't even started yet.

Fair enough. Luckily things like this don't bug me much.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 12, 2016, 05:59:39 PM
Me neither, actually. I'm content to let things like that slide, though the discussion is often entertaining. In this case I'm just surprised that it seems to have gone largely under the radar, as watching it today it seemed so incredibly obvious and quite significant.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 12, 2016, 06:03:08 PM
You could always imagine it was entirely an illusion created by Q to broaden Picard's mind and give him a small taste of what was to come.

Another weird thing about that episode - if it's real - is the syndrome they established Picard has - which they never address again in the films.

And it's the final episode - almost in the final scene - and they say " you have an illness which may or may not be a bad thing later in life ". Never mentioned again...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 12, 2016, 06:38:13 PM
He didn't have Madeupshit Syndrome yet. She said he had a defect in his brain that could some day cause a variety of illnesses. Moreover, it was likely 25 years before the actual onset, since that's the reason Geordi shows up at the vineyard.

More importantly, the movies don't seem to have anything to do with the series. The names are the same, but the characters really aren't. Hell, they could have blown Picard's arms off and it wouldn't be reflected in the movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 12, 2016, 08:23:22 PM
More importantly, the movies don't seem to have anything to do with the series. The names are the same, but the characters really aren't.

I honestly don't see this at all. Yes, they're more dark/serious versions of the characters, but they don't seem like different people to me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on May 12, 2016, 09:29:00 PM
They're definitely extensions of the characters from the series, the same characters years later, which is exactly what they're supposed to be.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 14, 2016, 04:28:13 AM
Marina Sirtis said there was 2 days between finishing All Good Things and starting Generations.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 14, 2016, 11:12:30 AM
More importantly, the movies don't seem to have anything to do with the series. The names are the same, but the characters really aren't.

I honestly don't see this at all. Yes, they're more dark/serious versions of the characters, but they don't seem like different people to me.
The biggest problem is that the only two characters that really interest me are the ones that change most dramatically. Data gets the personality chip hard-wired into him and becomes the clown. That happens almost immediately and he's a fundamentally different character from that point on. I find the funny Data amusing enough, but it's not the same by any means. Picard becomes prone to Ramboism. Not really in Generations, but every movie after that involves him spending a good deal of time as Jean McClain. Moreover, his personality changes to suit the action hero persona. How many times does he disregard orders or the safety of his crew during final 3 movies? The rest of them don't change too much, but Troi becomes the federation's most useful employee, as her pedantic psychobabble isn't very entertaining in long form. Notice that whenever things are at their most dramatic she's either flying the ship or sitting a ops. When they crash the ship in Generations there are 30 people on the bridge. Was she really the most qualified to be the flying the ship as they're crash landing?

In the series you can do stuff like that from time to time, because the next week Data is unemotional, Picard is a diplomatic and Troi is whining about emotions. In the movies none of that stuff sells, so they spend all of their time in more entertaining character.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 14, 2016, 12:23:58 PM
I'd call that character development. Even if it's development you don't like. They're not fundamentally different though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 14, 2016, 01:57:00 PM
I'd call that character development. Even if it's development you don't like. They're not fundamentally different though.
That works for Troi becoming Wonder Woman. Not so much for Data and Picard. They "evolved" right on out of the defining characteristics of who they'd been all this time. Data's emotional detachment and longing to be human, and Picard's thoughtfulness.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ZirconBlue on May 17, 2016, 02:47:16 PM
If the anomaly is always bigger in the past, why is it visible several hours after it was created?

I noticed that on first viewing.  I don't usually notice plot holes or whatever, but time-travel type situations I tend to invest more thought into, for some reason.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 17, 2016, 03:08:29 PM
I'd call that character development. Even if it's development you don't like. They're not fundamentally different though.
That works for Troi becoming Wonder Woman. Not so much for Data and Picard. They "evolved" right on out of the defining characteristics of who they'd been all this time. Data's emotional detachment and longing to be human, and Picard's thoughtfulness.

I didn't have a problem with Data. I'll give you the Picard thing, but only in Insurrection. He made perfect sense in the other movies. In Generations and hell, even that awful Nemesis, it was pretty normal Picard. In First Contact, the trauma and his feelings toward the Borg overcame his normal sensibilities, but it was still in line with his character, given everything he went through.

Honestly, if Data and Picard are just one thing all the time, then those are some pretty flat characters.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 17, 2016, 04:32:34 PM
I'd call that character development. Even if it's development you don't like. They're not fundamentally different though.
That works for Troi becoming Wonder Woman. Not so much for Data and Picard. They "evolved" right on out of the defining characteristics of who they'd been all this time. Data's emotional detachment and longing to be human, and Picard's thoughtfulness.

I didn't have a problem with Data. I'll give you the Picard thing, but only in Insurrection. He made perfect sense in the other movies. In Generations and hell, even that awful Nemesis, it was pretty normal Picard. In First Contact, the trauma and his feelings toward the Borg overcame his normal sensibilities, but it was still in line with his character, given everything he went through.

Honestly, if Data and Picard are just one thing all the time, then those are some pretty flat characters.
If it were just the Ahab thing in FC, that would be one thing. Leaving the neutral zone to join the fight against the Borg was a different matter, and not at all Piccard-like. And the problem with Data wasn't expanding him with the emotion chip, per se. It's that they did it when they knew there would only be 2 or three stories left to tell, all self contained. There wasn't any development. There was "new and improved Funny Data" thrown in to make the movies different. It was a conscious effort to make him a fundamentally different character for the movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 17, 2016, 04:53:22 PM
Maybe nobody cares.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 17, 2016, 04:55:18 PM
Maybe nobody cares.

GOD DAMMIT I CARE THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 17, 2016, 04:59:31 PM
There is no Enterprise. There is no Starfleet. There is no United Federation of Planets.

There is no Picard or Data or Q.

It's all made up.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 17, 2016, 05:01:52 PM
There is no Enterprise. There is no Starfleet. There is no United Federation of Planets.

There is no Picard or Data or Q.

It's all made up.

Pft. Yea, like I'll ever believe that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 17, 2016, 05:03:25 PM
So who cares if Picard in Generations is so out of character and the nexus is a massive plot hole ?

There is no such thing as a nexus or a "picard".

It's all fake.








Insurrection is still shit though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 18, 2016, 12:04:28 AM
Nemesis is still shit though.

FTFY.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 18, 2016, 12:06:57 AM
Nemesis, insurrection, motion picture, Final Frontier, 2009 and Into Darkness are still shit though.

FTFY.

There, we good.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 18, 2016, 12:09:41 AM
Insurrection was slower and more like the series, but wasn't close to shit. TMP was slow, boring and self indulgent, but not really shit either. TFF was so bad it's good, so that was highly entertaining shit. 2009 had a stupid modern Hollywood plot full of holes, but it was ok overall. Into Darkness was a steaming pile of shit.

We're now judging Star Trek movies on the Bristol stool scale.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 05:28:24 AM
Sometimes I wonder why certain people even post in this thread.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 18, 2016, 05:33:28 AM
Because all Trek fans must love everything.

You're no different to the rest of us.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 18, 2016, 06:26:58 AM
Old Trek fans need to get over the fact that the new movies are action films. 


The series in general was dying.  You can't deny that.  They needed to take a break and pull new fans in.  Doing it the old way would do nothing again and they needed to make an action packed film.  I know what you are going to say, the writing, the writing, the writing.   It's not that bad.  It's just that it's not they way the old fans want it written.

I hope this is a catalyst to have a well written TV series more in the vein of the older series.  I'm ok with all this.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 18, 2016, 06:31:57 AM
Sometimes I wonder why certain people even post in this thread.
Me too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 06:35:42 AM
Sometimes I wonder why certain people even post in this thread.
Me too.

IKR?? It's like why bother posting if you hate everything about the subject and can't find any positives at all ?????
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 18, 2016, 06:36:19 AM
Old Trek fans need to get over the fact that the new movies are action films. 

The problem isn't that they're action, or that they're different, the problem is that they're empty unoriginal garbage, and share little with the series they're basing it on. The writing on them really IS that bad. It doesn't hold up to even the most cursory of logic or scrutiny. A movie doesn't have to be stupidly dumb to be entertaining. There are plenty of movies that manage to blend action and plot without sacrificing either element, but that's beyond these writers. I became a fan only a few months before Star Trek 2009 came out (and hated Trek before that), and hadn't seen a single episode of TOS, and yet had a ton of problems with that movie, so that has little to do with it imo. And ID was so bad it was hard to even watch.
Moviegoers need to stop defending Hollywood rubbish as if we should all just eat crap and like it. Have some standards, people! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 06:39:15 AM
Into Darkness was not so bad it was hard to watch.

It was competently filmed and made and looked good and the acting was good and it had good editing and pacing.

I don't think it has nearly as many flaws as people love to make out. It didn't need the floating barge sequence. We aren't told *WHY* Marcus wants a war and the radiation chamber needed

better dialogue and no Khan scream. Minor tweaks. Definitely not a train wreck. It's a fun movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 18, 2016, 06:58:50 AM
Into Darkness was not so bad it was hard to watch.

For me it absolutely was that bad. It was cringeworthy throughout, with no logic, and no fun or entertainment value at all for me. It was Transformers 4 levels of stupid and hard to watch imo.
Star Trek 2009 was actually entertaining for what it was, and a solid foundation to build from despite its many problems, but ID was a total write-off. I've watched ST09 many times (more times than most of the rest) and always enjoyed it, but it would take a hell of a lot more than minor tweaks to salvage ID.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 18, 2016, 07:17:48 AM
I really think you are in the minority Blob.  When the review for the 2009 movie came out is got strong reviews.  ID, was not as good as the 2009 movie but it wasn't all that bad.  I feel with the new movie they may be blowing it with the marketing and the leaks.  Of late have you heard anything about the new movie?

I think they are blowing it.  In 2 months the movie comes out and the only press I've heard is Pegg complaining about the trailers.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 18, 2016, 07:23:33 AM
I really think you are in the minority Blob.

Which is why I don't think anything of the majority....... (to word it much more nicely than my original thought)

All I know beyond the trailer is that there will be an Orion slave girl in there somewhere. I only know this because she's played by an actress who played an Orion slave girl in Star Trek Continues. :blob: No doubt the new movie won't be as good as that fan made episode either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 07:32:17 AM
There's a new trailer for Beyond this Friday. I'm nervous but excited too.

Paramount are beginning a full on marketing push at the same time.

The film is out in two months.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 07:37:35 AM
But yeah - what excitement I had for Beyond pretty much evaporated ( not with the trailer - I didn't hate it ) - but with the lack of any updates.

At this point for ID - we had several trailers and tv spots and a poster etc.


I'll go see it of course but i'm nowhere near as excited as I was for ID.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jingle.boy on May 18, 2016, 07:39:44 AM
I'm with Blob.  ID was fun on the first watch, but when you got down to it, the main and sub-plots were an absolute shit-show.  It was Armageddon and Battleship level of bad.  And I'll also reiterate that the reboots are "Star Trek" in name only.  Very little about the movies resemble the ST Universe originally created by Gene, which - for good or bad - continued to live on through all of the TV shows, and the TNG films (imo).  ST09 was pretty close to feeling like a ST movie, but ID was just a sci-fi action movie in space.  It was eye-candy, and I enjoyed it for that - just as I did with Armageddon and Battleship.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 18, 2016, 07:52:30 AM
Yet the Roddenberry was was dying.  Each film drew less and less and the last year of Enterprise was a cluster at least in America when they we jumping it to different times and then canceling it.  Things needed to change.

I understand Blob wanting substance but the movies were at least to me fun to watch and that all I really cared for.  TV shows with story arcs are the perfect for great writing.  I'm pulling for the new CBS show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 18, 2016, 08:05:25 AM
Yet the Roddenberry was was dying.  Each film drew less and less and the last year of Enterprise was a cluster at least in America when they we jumping it to different times and then canceling it.  Things needed to change.

What needed to change is they needed fresh quality writing. They declined because they were stale and bad at that point. It's not like they were cranking out a prime example of Roddenberry's vision and people didn't want it, they weren't even doing that much properly. By the end the TNG movies were the same kind of empty action we're getting now, but without the budget to do it as well as the other big action movies. S4 of Enterprise was recycling classic Trek as a crutch. As always, it largely comes down to bad writing. Good writing solves these issues.
There are many examples of modern shows and movies that strike this balance of substance and fun action. It's not one or the other. ID didn't even manage the fun factor of 2009 to make up for it for me. Big dumb explosions inbetween having my intelligence insulted isn't my idea of fun.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 18, 2016, 08:08:20 AM
I think compared to you, I don't need to be intellectually stimulated by Star Trek Movies.  They best ones were always the action films.  I do want the stimulation in the TV series.  So if the movies writing is average, I'm ok with that.  That's 2 hours of getaway from real life, being mentally stimulated. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 18, 2016, 08:14:04 AM
They don't have to be super intelligent, I just don't want them so mind numbingly stupid that it makes no logical sense with even the most casual viewing. I would have to be in a vegetative state to not have the whopping huge plot holes and problems with ID not completely destroy any entertainment value for me. A movie can be fun and light without being totally braindead.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 18, 2016, 08:22:13 AM
Old Trek fans need to get over the fact that the new movies are action films. 


The series in general was dying.  You can't deny that.  They needed to take a break and pull new fans in.  Doing it the old way would do nothing again and they needed to make an action packed film.  I know what you are going to say, the writing, the writing, the writing.   It's not that bad.  It's just that it's not they way the old fans want it written.

I hope this is a catalyst to have a well written TV series more in the vein of the older series.  I'm ok with all this.
Dream Theater has been stagnating ever since FII. Their fanbase hasn't changed one bit, and it's limited to a select group of prog fans. I think they need to put out a pop album full of radio friendly hits. And to be on the safe side there should be a duet with Carrie Underwood on it. Best to throw a big net. I'm sure once they expand their fanbase they'll be able to go back to playing prog and all of the new fans will stick with them.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on May 18, 2016, 08:25:16 AM
Question about the new movies. Would they be any different if it was some no-name crew, aboard the HMS Pegasus, in some completely new space universe? Most of us wouldn't have gone to see it without the ST franchise tag, but the movie itself would have been exactly the same, and either enjoyable or not based on one's personal inclinations. TWoK worked because we understood the emotional backstory between Kirk, Spock and Khan. ST was the pretty wrapper, but the content was generic.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 18, 2016, 08:47:22 AM
Old Trek fans need to get over the fact that the new movies are action films. 


The series in general was dying.  You can't deny that.  They needed to take a break and pull new fans in.  Doing it the old way would do nothing again and they needed to make an action packed film.  I know what you are going to say, the writing, the writing, the writing.   It's not that bad.  It's just that it's not they way the old fans want it written.

I hope this is a catalyst to have a well written TV series more in the vein of the older series.  I'm ok with all this.
Dream Theater has been stagnating ever since FII. Their fanbase hasn't changed one bit, and it's limited to a select group of prog fans. I think they need to put out a pop album full of radio friendly hits. And to be on the safe side there should be a duet with Carrie Underwood on it. Best to throw a big net. I'm sure once they expand their fanbase they'll be able to go back to playing prog and all of the new fans will stick with them.

I would say 6DOIT.  I may not like the albums like the cream of the crop.  But they are still enjoyable.  Just not at their prime, just like Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 18, 2016, 09:04:18 AM
Question about the new movies. Would they be any different if it was some no-name crew, aboard the HMS Pegasus, in some completely new space universe? Most of us wouldn't have gone to see it without the ST franchise tag, but the movie itself would have been exactly the same, and either enjoyable or not based on one's personal inclinations. TWoK worked because we understood the emotional backstory between Kirk, Spock and Khan. ST was the pretty wrapper, but the content was generic.

It would help me with the cast, since I really don't like Sylar as Spock. But it still wouldn't help with the bad plots/writing etc.


Also, I have no idea why we need other people to like/dislike what we like/dislike. If you love Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness, cool! Keep enjoying them. I personally didn't like either movie, shouldn't that be cool too? Can't I have my standards for what I want without pissing you guys off simply for not thinking it was well done?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 09:05:51 AM
But this is the internet !


If someone loves something you hate - you are legally required to point and laugh then explain why they are "wrong".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 18, 2016, 09:10:59 AM
Question about the new movies. Would they be any different if it was some no-name crew, aboard the HMS Pegasus, in some completely new space universe? Most of us wouldn't have gone to see it without the ST franchise tag, but the movie itself would have been exactly the same, and either enjoyable or not based on one's personal inclinations. TWoK worked because we understood the emotional backstory between Kirk, Spock and Khan. ST was the pretty wrapper, but the content was generic.

It would help me with the cast, since I really don't like Sylar as Spock. But it still wouldn't help with the bad plots/writing etc.


Also, I have no idea why we need other people to like/dislike what we like/dislike. If you love Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness, cool! Keep enjoying them. I personally didn't like either movie, shouldn't that be cool too? Can't I have my standards for what I want without pissing you guys off simply for not thinking it was well done?

No doubt.  I'm hoping the TV series is where we all can be happy with.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 09:14:17 AM
Best case scenario is that ST2017 is great and STBeyond is also great.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 18, 2016, 02:07:03 PM
Best case scenario is that ST2017 is great and STBeyond is also great.

Is ST2017 the new TV show?

If so, I agree. I am always happy for more good Star Trek, whether or not I think it's likely.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 02:15:12 PM
People working on it include :

Bryan Fuller who worked on ST Voyager.

Rod Roddenberry

Nick Meyer who directed TWOK and TUC and co-wrote TVH

Some guy who made a Star trek documentary

Alex Kurtzman.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 18, 2016, 02:24:02 PM
People working on it include :

Bryan Fuller who worked on ST Voyager.

Rod Roddenberry

Nick Meyer who directed TWOK and TUC and co-wrote TVH

Some guy who made a Star trek documentary

Alex Kurtzman.

Oh I know. Mix of bad and good. Can't make any judgements about it till I see something.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 02:26:11 PM
Kurtzman is only producing. Not writing AFAIK.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 18, 2016, 02:30:15 PM
Kurtzman is only producing. Not writing AFAIK.

Star Trek has an uphill battle to regain my confidence. It just seems the studio doesn't get it anymore, no matter who they assign as producer/writer whatever. Good writers can easily make crap movies. Keep in mind the same dudes wrote the first and the second Cap america movie. I'll judge the product when I see the product. I won't say the show will suck or that it won't.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 02:55:38 PM
(https://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/articles/9a5570aa205c967c350c52e4ad43bc8ab6fdecd0.png)




First Look at Star Trek 2017.


Almost the classic logo. TOS era series ?



EDIT : Higher Res.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Cool Chris on May 18, 2016, 03:07:37 PM
TWoK worked because we understood the emotional backstory between Kirk, Spock and Khan. ST was the pretty wrapper, but the content was generic.

A movie fan could've enjoyed that movie without knowledge of Space Seed. They presented it well enough to draw the viewer in and allow them to understand Khan's desire for vengeance without tons of exposition. Same thing with the interpersonal relationships of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 03:43:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXpPweAooeE


Teaser for Star trek 2017.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 18, 2016, 04:30:41 PM
I hope they're not actually just calling it "Star Trek". I'm sure they're not, but still.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 04:35:24 PM
They might not have a name yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 18, 2016, 04:43:18 PM
A true teaser trailer. Nice.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 18, 2016, 05:05:04 PM
Comment on You Tube :

" Too much CGI "

:rollin. Golly let's go into space and film all that IN CAMERA.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 18, 2016, 11:33:11 PM
Nothing worth scrutinizing there. That might be part of the intro they're working on, it might have been made just for the teaser, don't know if the music is part of the theme or not.
I'd rather the title of the show have a subtitle to avoid confusion, but if they want to go with just Star Trek, fans will come up with a unique name for it anyway.

I will assume that's the basic logo for now, in which case it's fine. The font is reminiscent of the original series font, with those sharp cutaways to make it look fresh, and obviously going for the modern metallic look. Is the slice through the Starfleet emblem symbolic?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on May 19, 2016, 03:00:45 AM
It's only a teaser with some space, some music, and a logo. But it felt sooo gooooood... :metal

The slice through the emblem might be a pure design thing, but the era after the Khitomer conference is bound to be an unstable one with many dividing agendas and opinions, so it could be a representation of rifts (diplomatic, political, social) forming. A universe on the path that divides, in a way. The only solid information is "new crews" in plural which may point to a different focus per season or a plan to follow more than one crew through the story right from the start.

I still think they are really determined to deliver some quality science fiction and I hope they actually get the chance to deliver.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 20, 2016, 07:15:52 AM
I'm with Blob. 
Me too.  I saw SDID once, and I will never make that mistake again.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 20, 2016, 08:45:26 AM
I'm with Blob. 
Me too.  I saw SDID once, and I will never make that mistake again.

You are right ! Seeing SDID was indeed a mistake ! :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 20, 2016, 08:58:34 AM
...yeah, that's what I said.

I mean, obviously, it was a mistake for me.  That doesn't mean it was necessarily a mistake for anyone else.

It would be a mistake for some people to pick a fight with Dwayne Johnson.  But that doesn't mean it would necessarily be a mistake for, say, Jason Statham to pick a fight with him.  Mistakes don't have to be universal.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on May 20, 2016, 09:05:29 AM
...yeah, that's what I said.

I mean, obviously, it was a mistake for me.  That doesn't mean it was necessarily a mistake for anyone else.

It would be a mistake for some people to pick a fight with Dwayne Johnson.  But that doesn't mean it would necessarily be a mistake for, say, Jason Statham to pick a fight with him.  Mistakes don't have to be universal.

He was referencing your typo. You said SDID, when it should be STID.

I know, I know.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 20, 2016, 09:07:46 AM
I'm just going to give hef the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was cleverly referring to it as Star Dreck. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on May 20, 2016, 09:09:27 AM
You don't mess with Hef Kong Bundy.

Or since it's Star Trek...

Hef, son of Mogh.


I'm just going to give hef the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was cleverly referring to it as Star Dreck. :neverusethis:

I hacked his computer.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 20, 2016, 09:53:07 AM
Dammit
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on May 21, 2016, 02:17:14 PM
In other news - JJ Abrams says that Paramount / CBS are dropping the Axanar lawsuit.

That's good news for other fan films at least like Star Trek Continues. I wonder if they came to an agreement whereby Axanar cannot make any profit off their IP.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on May 22, 2016, 12:19:30 AM
I saw that already, and it would be a horrible thing for fan films if they drop the lawsuit, and it reeks of desperate PR for the new movie.
Axanar has spat in the face of CBS/Paramount, and is profiting directly off their IP, and is spoiling it for everyone else and giving fan films a bad reputation. CBS/Paramount have been extremely generous allowing crowd funding for fan films at all, and Axanar has not only abused that, but openly mocked and taunted CBS and bitten the hand that feeds them. They have clearly crossed all lines, and it has already been responsible for shutting down the sequel to Horizon (which was a very good fan film), and it seriously hurt the most recent crowdfunding for Star Trek Continues. Fuck them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on May 23, 2016, 05:57:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iWvFsbY.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 02, 2016, 03:36:12 PM
So who would you pick to write and direct Star Trek 4 if there is one ?

Never mind " the studio will flood it with action and explosions anyway ". Assume that's a given but who would you choose if it was up to you ?

I'd get Wally Pfister to shoot and light it. I'd love to see Chris and John Nolan write / direct it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 02, 2016, 10:30:29 PM
I vote to give the reboot a mercy killing, and pray the TV show ends up watchable.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 03, 2016, 02:25:32 AM
Oh do you not like the new films ? :)

You've kept that quiet !.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Polarbear on June 03, 2016, 02:58:54 AM
So who would you pick to write and direct Star Trek 4 if there is one ?

Never mind " the studio will flood it with action and explosions anyway ". Assume that's a given but who would you choose if it was up to you ?

I'd get Wally Pfister to shoot and light it. I'd love to see Chris and John Nolan write / direct it.

I'd like to see Civil War writers Chris Markus and Stephen McFeely do the script.
And then put Matthew Vaughn on the director's chair, that would be an awesome team to do ST 4 if it ever gets the green light!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 03, 2016, 06:45:22 AM
I vote to give the reboot a mercy killing, and pray the TV show ends up watchable.
Same here.

I haven't been fond of the writing, directing, or acting on most of the characters or storylines presented in this reboot. I would prefer they let his go.  If they want to continue Star Trek, go back to the Prime universe and do continuing adventures there with new characters.  That's the way to go.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 03, 2016, 06:47:17 PM
I think you are all on drugs. The writing has been suspect but the acting is fine. Just don't watch the movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 03, 2016, 08:20:02 PM
I think you are all on drugs. The writing has been suspect but the acting is fine. Just don't watch the movies.

Some of it has definitely been fine. I was completely cool with Pine, Urban and the dude who played Pike. I guess the acting for Chekov and Sulu were cool too, but those are essentially throw-away characters in the new movies. But, to me, Syler totally misses the Spock character and they just re-wrote a completely new Uhura character.

Granted, the acting from any of the shows isn't terribly better by everyone.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 04, 2016, 04:40:59 AM
I think it's the writing of Spock that bothers most. Him showing emotion is what bothers both. Never would you see Spock kissing a female.

I loved the Sylar character on Heroes. I think it's more about the writing here.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 04, 2016, 12:02:50 PM
I think it's the writing of Spock that bothers most. Him showing emotion is what bothers both. Never would you see Spock kissing a female.

I loved the Sylar character on Heroes. I think it's more about the writing here.

Oh the writing is bad too, for sure. I also loved Sylar, which is why I was initially excited about the casting, but the acting is also very off. Nimoy Spock had a very thoughtful way of speaking, as if every word was wise and thought out. There was an irony to it as well. When Sylar talks as Spock, it usually comes off as snarky. There's also an issue of speed. One of the reasons Spock came off as so wise was because of the tone and speed he spoke, which was considerably slow. Sylar speaks pretty damn fast as spock. It's a small thing, but to a huge Spock fan like me, it stands out a lot and makes him just another modern snarky character and not the wise thoughtful character he's supposed to be, new timeline or not.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on June 05, 2016, 01:44:25 PM
I think it's the writing of Spock that bothers most. Him showing emotion is what bothers both. Never would you see Spock kissing a female.

I loved the Sylar character on Heroes. I think it's more about the writing here.

Oh the writing is bad too, for sure. I also loved Sylar, which is why I was initially excited about the casting, but the acting is also very off. Nimoy Spock had a very thoughtful way of speaking, as if every word was wise and thought out. There was an irony to it as well. When Sylar talks as Spock, it usually comes off as snarky. There's also an issue of speed. One of the reasons Spock came off as so wise was because of the tone and speed he spoke, which was considerably slow. Sylar speaks pretty damn fast as spock. It's a small thing, but to a huge Spock fan like me, it stands out a lot and makes him just another modern snarky character and not the wise thoughtful character he's supposed to be, new timeline or not.

Good post. It's all about subtlety, which is rare in modern action-oriented movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 05, 2016, 06:31:10 PM
I think it's the writing of Spock that bothers most. Him showing emotion is what bothers both. Never would you see Spock kissing a female.

I seem to recall him being pretty damned successful with the ladies. Even setting aside the episodes where he was rendered non-Vulcan for one reason or another, it took him all of about 2 hours to talk an enemy ship captain right out of her miniskirt, and he was well on his way to getting some of Droxine, as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 05, 2016, 06:38:42 PM
We knew it but never really saw it.  Him having such outward affection was a bit jarring for most.  They could cover it with Pontiac Farr and it seemed justified. 

Not a big deal but we all had that, "That's not very Spock like" feeling.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 05, 2016, 10:48:26 PM
I think it's the writing of Spock that bothers most. Him showing emotion is what bothers both. Never would you see Spock kissing a female.

I seem to recall him being pretty damned successful with the ladies. Even setting aside the episodes where he was rendered non-Vulcan for one reason or another, it took him all of about 2 hours to talk an enemy ship captain right out of her miniskirt, and he was well on his way to getting some of Droxine, as well.

I always loved seeing the moments where Spock got to hook in rather than Kirk. Spock was a lot smoother about it too. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2016, 06:52:21 AM
You were just tired of seeing that whore Kirk get all the tail. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 06, 2016, 06:53:28 AM
Especially since Spock was the sexier one! :getoffmylawn:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2016, 06:55:55 AM
 :lol

I'd love to get my hands on DS9 but I'm not willing to spend the money on them.  I know Netflix has it.  I might anti up over the summer.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 06, 2016, 06:59:54 AM
There's next to no Star Trek on Netflix UK.

And they've stopped people accessing the US one via other means...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2016, 07:01:29 AM
I did not know that.  It's another dollar they can squeeze out of us.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 06, 2016, 07:03:37 AM
Glad I don't rely on streaming to watch Star Trek. :blob:

I've got everything but TNG. I want to get the HD remasters when I do.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 06, 2016, 07:07:26 AM
Compared to other TV shows, the Star Trek series are extremely expensive.  I've held back for at least a decade not buying them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 06, 2016, 07:09:29 AM
I don't own any ST TV shows on any format.


I may one day get the TNG Remastered Blu Rays and all the movies on Blu Ray too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 06, 2016, 07:09:40 AM
The scifi show boxsets tend to hold their price, especially Star Trek. Even second hand I don't recall them being all that cheap, at least for what it is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 06, 2016, 09:11:46 AM
I know. I might get them one every so often...

One a month for example.

I do want those remastered TNG Blu Rays. And all the movies I guess - but I could get the Stardate Collection which is all TEN movies for a not too bad price. ***

I already have 2009 and Into Darkness on DVD so I don't need to get them on Blu Ray just yet but I might eventually get the Compendium or wait til Beyond is out and get the

inevitable boxset with all three and ALL the extras...



*** EDIT : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Trek-Stardate-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B00BKN6ZP0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465225975&sr=8-1&keywords=star+trek+stardate+collection

Not bad at all.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 06, 2016, 09:13:57 AM
You can get the movies cheap, either in the boxset or even individually. I got all of mine bit by bit, but none of them were expensive.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 06, 2016, 09:15:14 AM
Check out my EDIT above. A little over £30 for all ten movies plus extras.

Works out at a little over £3 a movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 06, 2016, 09:16:01 AM
But what is this crazy £ you speak of?!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 06, 2016, 09:17:28 AM
Pound Sterling.

£30 is $60 AUS...


How come if you lot are all British exports :lol - How come you use the dollar ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 06, 2016, 09:38:25 AM
Why don't you use the Euro?

This kind of confusion is why they abolish currency on Earth in the future!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 10, 2016, 12:38:44 PM
So Writer Joe Menosky is writing for Star Trek 2017.

According to Blob - he's written some of the best episodes of TNG and Voyager.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 10, 2016, 12:41:02 PM
He definitely worked on many of the best of Voyager, not sure on TNG, I don't remember it well enough. But definitely some good ones there too.
This is the first firmly positive news for the new series for me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 10, 2016, 01:00:23 PM
He definitely worked on many of the best of Voyager, not sure on TNG, I don't remember it well enough. But definitely some good ones there too.
This is the first firmly positive news for the new series for me.
Dude wrote some very good episodes for all of the series. Dude also wrote some of the very worst episodes. For every episode I really like there's one that I can't stand to even think about.

TNG is split down the middle. Darmok, Clues, Conundrum are all great. Interface (Geordi's mom), In Theory (Data's girlfriend) and Emergence (the ship's computer evolves into sentience) are just terrible. Hell, he even wrote both halves of Times Arrow, which were great and awful respectively.

Same holds for Voyager. It's surprising to me that the same person who wrote Timeless, Blink of an Eye and Living Witness also wrote Distant Origin and The Thaw.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 11, 2016, 01:03:29 AM
Oh sure, there are stinkers in there too, with Distant Origin being my personal most disliked episode of Voyager even over Threshold, but for me the list is more in his favour than against it. At the very least, it shows his potential. Many of my favourite Voyager episodes involve him, including Timeless, Blink of an Eye, Year of Hell, and Living Witness is also up there. This is actually the first news on the new series to really interest me on the new series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on June 12, 2016, 11:52:29 PM
Back after a little hiatus, watched Catspaw, awful episode :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 13, 2016, 12:16:30 AM
Wasn't that episode meant for halloween or something? Yeah, awful episode. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 15, 2016, 06:27:48 PM
Here's an easy question.

Lt. Saavik. Robin Curtis or Kirstie Alley?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 15, 2016, 06:42:58 PM
Secondly it seems the Axanar lawsuit is back on.

Seems the guy in charge of Axanar can't stop being a dick.

Can they make STContinues official instead ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 15, 2016, 06:45:03 PM
Secondly it seems the Axanar lawsuit is back on.

Seems the guy in charge of Axanar can't stop being a dick.

Can they make STContinues official instead ?

I honestly know just about nothing about this. Any chance someone can sum it up for me?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 15, 2016, 07:12:11 PM
Here's an easy question.

Lt. Saavik. Robin Curtis or Kirstie Alley?
Depends on what you're asking. If you're asking who's hotter, as is usually the case when somebody says Girl A or Girl B, then it's Kirstie Alley by a light year. Back in the day she was smoking hot. If it's who was the better Vulcan, neither of them were particularly good. Kirstie's Saavik seemd pretty clueless, though she made it look really good. Robin Curtis's was just bland. Had they actually made Valeris Saavik, as they intended, then Kim Catrall would be the easy pick. She was the best Vulcan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 15, 2016, 09:27:02 PM
I agree with all of that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 15, 2016, 11:12:31 PM
Secondly it seems the Axanar lawsuit is back on.

Seems the guy in charge of Axanar can't stop being a dick.

Can they make STContinues official instead ?

Apparently they never actually dropped the lawsuit, but they were trying to settle it out of court. But the Axanar crew are idiots, and they deserve to get their asses run into the ground.
Star Trek Continues is the perfect example of how to run a fan film all around. Nothing but class and quality.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 15, 2016, 11:46:48 PM
Secondly it seems the Axanar lawsuit is back on.

Seems the guy in charge of Axanar can't stop being a dick.

Can they make STContinues official instead ?

Apparently they never actually dropped the lawsuit, but they were trying to settle it out of court. But the Axanar crew are idiots, and they deserve to get their asses run into the ground.
Star Trek Continues is the perfect example of how to run a fan film all around. Nothing but class and quality.

So...Blob....care to summarize this stuff? I looked up the lawsuit, but I don't see why the Axanar guys are such douche bags. Insight pwease?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 16, 2016, 12:08:04 AM
Secondly it seems the Axanar lawsuit is back on.

Seems the guy in charge of Axanar can't stop being a dick.

Can they make STContinues official instead ?

Apparently they never actually dropped the lawsuit, but they were trying to settle it out of court. But the Axanar crew are idiots, and they deserve to get their asses run into the ground.
Star Trek Continues is the perfect example of how to run a fan film all around. Nothing but class and quality.

So...Blob....care to summarize this stuff? I looked up the lawsuit, but I don't see why the Axanar guys are such douche bags. Insight pwease?

Well the lawsuit itself is mostly related to the standard IP stuff.
The reason they're douchebags is because they crowdfunded over a million dollars for their fan film so they could all get salaries for their work, and purchase a large studio to start their own scifi franchise, directly profiting off Star Trek's IP, and on social media they've done nothing but bag the shit out of Star Trek and talk about how much better their fan film is. After the lawsuit started, they made a rant about how they were only being sued because Axanar had the superior product and they didn't want competition, and claimed they were going to win the lawsuit with the best lawyers, and I think they even tried to counter sue, and in defense of the lawsuit itself, claimed their fan film didn't even resemble Star Trek's trademarks.

Basically, CBS/Paramount have been incredibly lenient with people crowdfunding fan film as long as there's transparency that it's all going directly towards equipment/supplies to make the film, and no profit is being made, and Axanar flagrantly disregarded that to profit from it, then bit the hand that feeds them.

Also, the guy in charge apparently has a long history of dodgy shit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 16, 2016, 12:21:14 AM
Just skimmed through "Prelude to Axanar" for a few minutes. They sure do like to film people talking from the side.


But it might be better than Into Darkness.  :loser:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 16, 2016, 07:02:58 AM
lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 16, 2016, 09:42:30 AM
Nothing is better than Into Darkness.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 16, 2016, 09:49:59 AM
Nothing is better than Into Darkness.

You're right. Watching nothing would be preferable to watching Into Darkness. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 16, 2016, 10:19:46 AM
Nothing is better than Into Darkness.

You're right. Watching nothing would be preferable to watching Into Darkness. :biggrin:


Well done for not taking that obvious bait.

Oh.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 16, 2016, 01:57:09 PM
I generally disregard fan films since they usually look like high school productions. These guys actually made it look pretty good. I take it the Prelude thing is just a proof of concept. Where are they with the feature?


edit: Also, the uniforms don't match the ships. I take it this is after Enterprise but before TOS?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 16, 2016, 02:02:01 PM
Star Trek Renegades looked terrible and Koenig sounded like he really could not be bothered.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 16, 2016, 02:11:49 PM
Here's an easy question.

Lt. Saavik. Robin Curtis or Kirstie Alley?
Depends on what you're asking. If you're asking who's hotter, as is usually the case when somebody says Girl A or Girl B, then it's Kirstie Alley by a light year. Back in the day she was smoking hot. If it's who was the better Vulcan, neither of them were particularly good. Kirstie's Saavik seemd pretty clueless, though she made it look really good. Robin Curtis's was just bland. Had they actually made Valeris Saavik, as they intended, then Kim Catrall would be the easy pick. She was the best Vulcan.


I looked up Kirstie Alley and she looks ok for her age. But she's still a nut case.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Polarbear on June 16, 2016, 02:15:26 PM
Nothing is better than Into Darkness.

You're right. Watching nothing would be preferable to watching Into Darkness. :biggrin:

Honestly, i would watch Into Darkness a hundred times, before watching Generations, Insurrection or Nemesis ever again. :D

I haven't been following news about the new series, but i'm very excited to hear that Nicholas Meyer and Joe Menosky are involved with the project! That is a very good sign.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 16, 2016, 02:17:57 PM

Honestly, i would watch Into Darkness a hundred times, before watching Generations, Insurrection or Nemesis ever again. :D

THIS.

Even though I don't actually mind Generations or Nemesis. I enjoyed Into Darkness a LOT more and it has longevity for me.

Insurrection got old really quickly. As did Nemesis.

I was even really bored watching First Contact last time and I could put on Into Darkness like right now and watch it in full easily.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 16, 2016, 02:40:52 PM
Here's an easy question.

Lt. Saavik. Robin Curtis or Kirstie Alley?
Depends on what you're asking. If you're asking who's hotter, as is usually the case when somebody says Girl A or Girl B, then it's Kirstie Alley by a light year. Back in the day she was smoking hot. If it's who was the better Vulcan, neither of them were particularly good. Kirstie's Saavik seemd pretty clueless, though she made it look really good. Robin Curtis's was just bland. Had they actually made Valeris Saavik, as they intended, then Kim Catrall would be the easy pick. She was the best Vulcan.


I looked up Kirstie Alley and she looks ok for her age. But she's still a nut case.
Well, yeah, she's a Scientologist. That hasn't managed to help with her weight issues. However, I was definitely referring to back in the day. Back when she played Saavik she looked fantastic. Her first season on Cheers, as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 16, 2016, 02:51:36 PM
(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/actress-kirstie-alley-visits-the-siriusxm-studios-on-january-6-2016-picture-id503746800)





This was in January this year. At least she doesn't look like she's had loads of Botox .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 16, 2016, 02:56:43 PM
https://axamonitor.com/doku.php?id=faq


AXANAR LAWSUIT FAQ.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 16, 2016, 04:01:34 PM
Kirstie Alley is slightly off center that she would do things to you that would make Vulcans blush. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 16, 2016, 09:50:38 PM
Honestly, i would watch Into Darkness a hundred times, before watching Generations, Insurrection or Nemesis ever again. :D

Oh god, I'd rather claw my own ears and eyes out than be forced to watch ID a hundred times. Struggled to even do it once at the cinema, and couldn't manage it twice. Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis are all far superior films, even as bad as Nemesis is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 17, 2016, 02:22:53 AM
Whereas I could easily watch it over Insurrection.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 17, 2016, 01:54:36 PM
Whereas I could easily watch it over Insurrection.
I watched Insurrection a couple of weeks ago, along with a couple of the other crappy movies. Couldn't bring myself to watch Nemisis. Started it. Skipped to three random points in the movie. Decided I'd rather watch nothing.

All things considered Insurrection winds up somewhere in the middle. It's certainly ahead of Nemesis and that ST-V nonsense, and possibly First Contact, as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 17, 2016, 03:11:27 PM
The last time I threw on Nemesis I ended up enjoying it a lot more than i was expecting.

I can never sit through Insurrection.

My favourite TNG movie is actually Generations. It has a warmth in both tone and colour palette and is dripping with emotion throughout whereas First Contact is kinda cold and dark and sterile

compared and there's not much emotional content.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 17, 2016, 03:41:45 PM
I never got dripping with emotion out of Generations. It's alright, but it also seemed a bit contrived. Some fan-wank in there, I think. Crashing the Enterprise. Bringing back those idiotic Klingon sisters to be secondary bad guys. Data with the emotion chip. It just seemed a little heavy-handed in making sure it didn't come off as a normal TNG.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 17, 2016, 03:47:13 PM
There was something always missing from Generations that made it seem average.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 17, 2016, 03:48:31 PM
I thought the whole film has this aura of warmth. I guess I can't describe it.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 17, 2016, 04:43:54 PM
I thought the whole film has this aura of warmth. I guess I can't describe it.
It was certainly an orange film. I agree about the warmness of it. I just don't' find it particularly entertaining or interesting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 17, 2016, 04:59:07 PM
Probably because I saw it in the cinema in 1994 when I was 16.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 17, 2016, 05:19:42 PM
Generations is an odd one to me. I really like (most) of the character moments (probably for similar reasons that Barto doesn't) but it does have a rather awful plot that was clearly forced to help Shatner show up.

Insurrection has less good character moments (though quite a few good ones) and a better plot that still isn't great. So if Generations got an A- or B+ for characters and a D for plot, Insurrection gets a B- for characters and a C for plot.

First Contact gets an A for both, sucks people here seem to dislike it so much, but such is life. No big deal.

Nemesis gets a D for both of those things.

Don't even get me started on the reboot movies. Yea, I'm the weird guy who really didn't like Trek 09.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 17, 2016, 10:00:00 PM
Generations is an odd one to me. I really like (most) of the character moments (probably for similar reasons that Barto doesn't) but it does have a rather awful plot that was clearly forced to help Shatner show up.

I also really like the character moments, and think it has some of the best in the Trek films, but the Nexus plot has too many issues, and forcing the original cast in there was a detriment to the movie. It didn't need it. Still a solidly enjoyable film imo, but not a top Trek film. Also the Enterprise D never looked better.

First Contact gets an A for both, sucks people here seem to dislike it so much, but such is life. No big deal.

:dunno: I love it. A top 3 Trek film for me along with TWOK and TVH.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 17, 2016, 10:08:03 PM
ADMIT THAT YOU HATE IT!!!

SAY IT! SAY IT!

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9Hn9xAaKUbw/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 17, 2016, 10:17:40 PM
NOOOO!
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/giphy.gif~original)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 18, 2016, 03:36:39 AM
THESE FILMS ARE RANK :

TNG

Gen
First Contact
Nemesis
Insurrection

TOS

Khan
Country
Voyage
Motion Picture
Spock
Frontier
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Polarbear on June 18, 2016, 07:17:18 AM
1. Khan
2. Country
3. Voyage
4. Contact
5. ST09
6. Spock
7. Darkness
8. MP


9. Insurrection
10. Generations
11. Frontier

12. Nemesis
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 18, 2016, 12:53:40 PM
Another ranking? Eh sure.

1. Khan
2. First Contact
3. Country
4. Voyage
5. Generations
6. Search for Spock
7. Insurrection
8. Final Frontier
9. Nemesis
10. Motion Picture
11. ST09
12. Darkness.

I hate rankings, but that'll do for now pig.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on June 18, 2016, 01:47:10 PM
1. Country
2. Khan
3. Voyage
4. Contact
5. Spock
6. Generations
7. Frontier
8. Nemesis
9. 2001: A Trek Odyssey
10. '09
11. Insurrection
12. Khan II: Into Blandness
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on June 18, 2016, 02:12:01 PM
1. Insurrection (yes...you read that correctly)
2. Wrath of Khan
3. Undiscovered Country
4. Star Trek '09
5. Voyage Home
6. First Contact
7. Search for Spock
8. The Motion Picture
9. Generations
10. Into Darkness
11. The Final Frontier



























12. Nemesis (seriously the only one of the 12 that I truly cannot stomach to watch.  Just an absolute steaming pile of vomit, bile, urine, and diarrhea all mixed together)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 18, 2016, 02:38:09 PM
Khan
TMP
Voyage
Undiscovered
Search
Insurrection
First Contact
Generations
2009
ID
That one with God in it
Nemesis.

Ranking 2-4 is really tough. I consider them interchangeable within those slots.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 18, 2016, 03:10:08 PM

Well the lawsuit itself is mostly related to the standard IP stuff.
The reason they're douchebags is because they crowdfunded over a million dollars for their fan film so they could all get salaries for their work, and purchase a large studio to start their own scifi franchise, directly profiting off Star Trek's IP, and on social media they've done nothing but bag the shit out of Star Trek and talk about how much better their fan film is. After the lawsuit started, they made a rant about how they were only being sued because Axanar had the superior product and they didn't want competition, and claimed they were going to win the lawsuit with the best lawyers, and I think they even tried to counter sue, and in defense of the lawsuit itself, claimed their fan film didn't even resemble Star Trek's trademarks.

Basically, CBS/Paramount have been incredibly lenient with people crowdfunding fan film as long as there's transparency that it's all going directly towards equipment/supplies to make the film, and no profit is being made, and Axanar flagrantly disregarded that to profit from it, then bit the hand that feeds them.

Also, the guy in charge apparently has a long history of dodgy shit.
After actually watching the proof of concept I think he might well be right. That was pretty slick. The guy that played Garth didn't work for me, but according to wikiP that was actually the writer and the role will be done professionally for the feature. The only other problem was that the Klingon wasn't particularly Klingon-like, but since this was done as a documentary it's not real telling. All in all I'd really like to see the feature version of that, which is a whole lot more than I can say about Paramount's effort.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 19, 2016, 12:33:56 PM
R.I.P. Anton Yelchin.  :'(
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 19, 2016, 12:37:59 PM
WTF that's out of the blue. RIP.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 19, 2016, 12:38:42 PM
Fucks sake :( :( :(.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 19, 2016, 12:39:57 PM
Yea, I was a big fan of his. He seemed like a pretty cool guy too, pretty quiet and shy.

Damn. I was totally shocked.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 19, 2016, 12:48:42 PM
Ugh. Shitty news. Guess this film series is over then...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 19, 2016, 12:50:30 PM
Ugh. Shitty news. Guess this film series is over then...

That I doubt. Walter Koenig is still alive!

I mean, it's not like Chekov was necessary in the reboots anyway. You can literally get rid of Chekov and Sulu, give their lines to a plant alien or something and no one would notice.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 19, 2016, 12:51:57 PM
He was so young with a lot of potential, and to go in such circumstances is a shock and a shame.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 19, 2016, 12:54:45 PM
I really hope Beyond does really well now.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 19, 2016, 12:55:15 PM
He was so young with a lot of potential, and to go in such circumstances is a shock and a shame.

Yea, I am extremely confused by the actual events that happened. Very true though, a real damn shame.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 19, 2016, 12:55:34 PM
I really hope Beyond does really well now.

Why? Because someone died?

I'd rather hope they end with this one and don't have to deal with writing out the character.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 19, 2016, 12:56:18 PM
I really hope Beyond does really well now.

I mean, I'd hate for a film to do well simply because an actor died. I doubt Anton had the star power to make the masses embrace the film for his death. If the film is good, I hope it does well. I say we just let the film stand on its own legs.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 19, 2016, 12:57:26 PM
I really hope Beyond does really well now.

Why? Because someone died?

I'd rather hope they end with this one and don't have to deal with writing out the character.

I would be ok if Beyond was the last one. I thought Nemesis would be the last one in 2002. But it's a shitty thing to happen in the 50th anniversary year.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 19, 2016, 01:08:55 PM
He was so young with a lot of potential, and to go in such circumstances is a shock and a shame.

Yea, I am extremely confused by the actual events that happened. Very true though, a real damn shame.
I can easily see how he was hit by his own car, but for it to be fatal is bizarre. People start their car before remembering something and jump out all the time. If you drive a stick might to forget to set the parking brake. We've all done that before. It's just odd for a car to pick up much speed like that, unless it's really steep or a really long roll. Definitely some very bad luck for the kid.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 19, 2016, 01:25:04 PM
Damn.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Polarbear on June 20, 2016, 12:11:02 AM
Just read the news about Anton Yelchin. R.I.P

I think they could recast or write Chekov out of future sequels depending how well Beyond does, but it would honestly be pretty tasteless IMO.

Has anyone seen Green Room? He was starring in it, along with the one and only Patrick Stewart!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 20, 2016, 12:22:14 AM
I didn't even know Anton Yelchin was in Green Room until I was checking his filmography yesterday, but I really want to see the movie because of Patrick Stewart anyway.

I don't think they'd recast Chekov given the circumstances, they'll probably start the next movie with Chekov already gone, either passed away during a mission, or reassigned with a different character in his place. I wonder if it's too late to dedicate Star Trek Beyond to him?
For many reasons, I think it would be best to just finish up with Beyond.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 20, 2016, 07:59:46 AM
I mean, it's not like Chekov was necessary in the reboots anyway.
Was Checkov EVER necessary?  Other than TWOK, I never really thought of him as an essential character.  He was just, like, the top redshirt or something.  Oh, and Russian because of diversity and world peace.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Cool Chris on June 20, 2016, 10:02:08 AM
Incorrect. He was created to entice the Monkees fanbase, not appease or acknowlegde the Russians.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 20, 2016, 10:09:08 AM
Incorrect. He was created to entice the Monkees fanbase, not appease or acknowlegde the Russians.

Why not both?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 20, 2016, 10:13:28 AM
Yeah, definitely both. Certainly wasn't about appeasement, though. Just multiculturalism.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 20, 2016, 10:30:22 AM
Yeah, definitely both. Certainly wasn't about appeasement, though. Just multiculturalism.

Yeah. The bridge already had an asian man, and a black female; it was about diversity and acceptance and striving for equality, not pandering. Having a Russian at that time would have been significant given the era.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 20, 2016, 11:00:24 AM
Well, certainly pandering to teenage girls.  :lol

Looks like the vehicle he was driving was under a recall for. . . wait for it. . .not being in park when people thought it was. BMW gave me a loaner car with one of those electronic ZF trannies and I found it pretty unnerving. I can definitely see how it happens. A PRNDL should have set positions. These are simply a cycle switch with a light on the dash to tell you what it does.

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--aswzMVSA--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/e5qfu7pbjgledko1y0py.png)

It's a trip, the more they make cars safer, the more they make them completely unintuitive.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 20, 2016, 11:13:19 AM
Well, certainly pandering to teenage girls.  :lol

Ok yes that, I was referring more to the Russian part of the equation than the teenager part. :lol

As for the car thing, it just feels such a senseless way to go.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PetFish on June 21, 2016, 01:35:32 AM
It's a trip, the more they make cars safer, the more they make them completely unintuitive.

These are my thoughts exactly.

Lane-drift alarms.  Tailgating alarms.  Sudden-stop if you're gonna run into something.  Blind-spot radar.

Unless you're a completely self-driving car I don't think any of these should be on any manually-operated vehicle.  I feel like all they do is teach us how to *not* use our own senses while we drive and encourage distraction by making us feel a lot safer than we actually are... like "Meh, I'm super tired but that's ok, if I start to drift it'll wake me up."  Not cool.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 23, 2016, 12:11:54 PM
https://trekcore.com/blog/2016/06/bryan-fuller-shares-new-star-trek-2017-details/#disqus_thread


Update on Star Trek 2017
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 23, 2016, 12:22:35 PM
That was a good interview. I'm feeling much more confident in Fuller after watching that, he seems to know what Trek is about, and it sounds like it will be what I want from Trek at this time.

(I'll excuse him for getting the number of episodes wrong, as he clearly just got the 2 and 6 swapped around :blob: )
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 23, 2016, 01:15:01 PM
What did he say ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 23, 2016, 11:48:43 PM
He said 762 total episodes of Star Trek. Innocent mistake.

In case people haven't seen yet, CBS/Paramount just released an official list of fan film guidelines that is sending everyone nuts. Rule 1 is perhaps the worst of them for most fan films.
https://www.startrek.com/fan-films

Thanks Axanar for fucking everyone. Bunch of assholes.


Happy 50th anniversary Trek! Fan films are dead, as is a main cast member, the new movie is not looking promising to put it very kindly, and if you rely on Netflix, the first 7 movies will also be gone by next month. Great time to be a fan! :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 24, 2016, 12:01:38 AM
and if you rely on Netflix, the first 7 movies will also be gone by next month. Great time to be a fan! :)


Wait....what? I lent most of my DVDs to my mom because I had Netflix!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 24, 2016, 12:03:19 AM
For reals? :(

https://trekmovie.com/2016/06/21/classic-trek-films-warping-away-from-netflix-july-1st/

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 24, 2016, 12:06:23 AM
Ohhhhh. I totally misread your post. I have all the movies. I thought you meant the shows. I lent her DS9 and Voyager.

No worries, carry on!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 24, 2016, 12:23:55 AM
Crisis averted! Just the movies. Given the timing, maybe Paramount figured Beyond might look better if the average person didn't have a baseline for how good a Trek movie should be. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on June 24, 2016, 03:36:47 AM
Good interview with Fuller. I was looking forward to exploring the time between ST6 and ST7 so I'm not exactly overjoyed it's off the table. The hint at known characters guesting "eventually" probably points to post VOY era. Good thing Comic Con and more news are only a month away.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 24, 2016, 03:40:19 AM
Good interview with Fuller. I was looking forward to exploring the time between ST6 and ST7 so I'm not exactly overjoyed it's off the table. The hint at known characters guesting "eventually" probably points to post VOY era. Good thing Comic Con and more news are only a month away.

Greetings...
Nef

I didn't get any indication that ST6 era was off the table, but one can hope. The best thing they could do is go post VOY/NEM.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 24, 2016, 07:24:15 AM
For reals? :(

https://trekmovie.com/2016/06/21/classic-trek-films-warping-away-from-netflix-july-1st/
Well, it doesn't have anything to do with the 50th or Axanar or anything.  Movies and TV shows are only under contract to be on Netflix (or Hulu, or Amazon Prime, or Crackle, or anything else) for so long.  Some things leave those services every month, and new stuff shows up every month.

Star Trek films are gone from Netflix (in the US, anyway) as of July, but showing up are things including the Lethal Weapon films and the Back to the Future films.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 24, 2016, 07:26:39 AM
For reals? :(

https://trekmovie.com/2016/06/21/classic-trek-films-warping-away-from-netflix-july-1st/
Well, it doesn't have anything to do with the 50th or Axanar or anything.  Movies and TV shows are only under contract to be on Netflix (or Hulu, or Amazon Prime, or Crackle, or anything else) for so long.  Some things leave those services every month, and new stuff shows up every month.

I wasn't suggesting those things were related in any way, just pointing out a lot of Star Trek suckage coinciding for the 50th. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 24, 2016, 07:28:00 AM
It's a culmination of all recent ST history.  :tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 24, 2016, 11:46:58 AM
Good interview with Fuller. I was looking forward to exploring the time between ST6 and ST7 so I'm not exactly overjoyed it's off the table. The hint at known characters guesting "eventually" probably points to post VOY era. Good thing Comic Con and more news are only a month away.

Greetings...
Nef

I didn't get any indication that ST6 era was off the table, but one can hope. The best thing they could do is go post VOY/NEM.

Yep. Then all the TNG cast can cameo. Set it 15 years after Nemesis and they're all the right age.

Why would they not do this ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 24, 2016, 12:09:37 PM
He said 762 total episodes of Star Trek. Innocent mistake.

In case people haven't seen yet, CBS/Paramount just released an official list of fan film guidelines that is sending everyone nuts. Rule 1 is perhaps the worst of them for most fan films.
https://www.startrek.com/fan-films (https://www.startrek.com/fan-films)

Thanks Axanar for fucking everyone. Bunch of assholes.
Seems like rule 5 is the troubling one. Everybody has to work for free and former ST actors can't appear in them. That's the fatal blow.

And I honestly don't get your hate for Axanar. They really weren't doing anything different that I can see, except turning out a significantly better product. Were they doing anything other than trying to obtain their production costs? Is that any different than, say, Tuvok producing Of Gods and Men? He might have made enough money to be able to do that for free, but he couldn't now thanks to rule 5. I agree that Paramount has ended fan made films, and that they did it because of Axanar, but I don't think it's fair to blame Axanar just for doing it on a bigger and better scale.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 24, 2016, 04:10:58 PM
Axanar raised $1.5m for themselves off the back of Paramount & CBS property I think and now they're not doing refunds for backers despite promising them when they set up the Kickstarter. . .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 24, 2016, 04:39:16 PM
Axanar raised $1.5m for themselves off the back of Paramount & CBS property I think and now they're not doing refunds for backers despite promising them when they set up the Kickstarter. . .
Where? The kickstarter is currently at $638,471. Their preliminary budget is $650-750, and is expected to climb. I really haven't put much effort into learning about all the goings on, so they might be crooks for all I know. I just haven't seen anything that really bugs me much, and it seems that Paramount is acting like the kid who takes his monopoly board home because he doesn't get to be the car.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 24, 2016, 04:46:46 PM
Just ask Blob ffs
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 25, 2016, 12:09:14 AM
Axanar raised $1.5m for themselves off the back of Paramount & CBS property I think and now they're not doing refunds for backers despite promising them when they set up the Kickstarter. . .
Where? The kickstarter is currently at $638,471. Their preliminary budget is $650-750, and is expected to climb. I really haven't put much effort into learning about all the goings on, so they might be crooks for all I know. I just haven't seen anything that really bugs me much, and it seems that Paramount is acting like the kid who takes his monopoly board home because he doesn't get to be the car.

They crowdfunded on multiple platforms, not just the one Kickstarter. It totalled about $1.2m IIRC.
And they have done significantly different to other fan films. As I said, they are paying cast and crew and salaries to themselves, exploiting that money to set up their own new ventures including buying their own studio, and have talked constant shit on social media towards CBS/Paramount. And the main man in charge has a long history of other shady dealings.
Axanar is 100% in the wrong here. They have continued to bite the hand that feeds them, with zero respect for the IP they're profiting from, and have ruined the good will of CBS/Paramount for everyone else. CBS don't have to allow you to do shit, but they've kindly turned a blind eye to fan films for 20 years, even allowing crowd funding productions within reason. Axanar blatantly crossed that line and abused that good will, and continue to play the victim card.
It's like squatting in someone's house, then deciding it's now your house because you think you could decorate it better, then blaming the house owners for calling the cops on you.

Compare that to Star Trek Continues, by far the best fan series. They're a registered non profit organization who do the work for free, and even funded the first episode entirely out of pocket, and have been nothing but diplomatic on social media even now with these new rules. Class act all the way.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 25, 2016, 01:03:23 AM
Paying salaries to the cast and the production folk doesn't bother me. Non-profits get to support the employees if it's done with reason. Father O'Malley doesn't get to pay himself 2.3 million a year, but he gets to put food on the table. Setting up their own studio is questionable. I think they have a right to build facilities for them to do the work, but that's probably a matter for the lawyers to hash out. It all comes down to the legal definitions about what constitutes non-profit.

As for badmouthing Paramount I really don't care. You very likely agree with their criticisms. I certainly do.

What it comes down to is that Paramount has every right to enforce their IP rights. I won't begrudge them that, even if I think it's childish. They've been perfectly reasonable up until now. The difference is that the exact same thing that they've always allowed is happening just on a larger scale. I'm not going to dump on Anaxnar just for wanting to do better than the others. I'm watching a ST Continues episode right now, and while it's not awful, it's light years behind what Axanar has done.

I honestly don't see how what they've done is really all that different from what others have been allowed to do, other than scale (though I'm perfectly open to the idea that something they're doing is wrong and I just don't know about it). It's fine for Paramount to object, but I think they're doing it for the reasons that Axanar dickhead has suggested. They're producing a comparable product at a fraction of the cost.

On a personal note, I'm sure you've seen PtA. Based on their proof of concept, which do you think would be more to you're liking, the full version of Axanar or STB?

Relevant tangent. I'm up late tonight because I went to see my step-brother's Pink Floyd tribute band. This is quite similar to the Axanar thing. No Floyd cover band is going to reach the scale of the real thing, even your very well respected mates from down under. It's easy to ignore them. As it stands now they're making a nice living exploiting the IP of others. If those lads reached a point where they were packing in stadiums and becoming millionaires, then Waters or Gilmore might well object (or they might be thrilled for them). Would the APF be assholes for reaching that point? If anything, what the Aussies are doing is probably more questionable since they're charging people to see their work instead of asking for donations to make it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 25, 2016, 01:58:25 AM
Axanar wasn't even good. It's run of the mill fan film with pretty CGI and nostalgia actors. Star Trek Continues is so true to what Star Trek is about, and perfectly captures the feel of TOS, without the '60s sillyness.

Which I find "better" is 100% irrelevant to the whole thing though. It's the red herring Axanar is using to rally up their fanboys to divert from the real issue here for the people who had no interest in getting the whole picture, including JJ. They have zero right to make a fan film. People are getting angry at CBS/Paramount for putting limits on fan films and stopping Axanar, instead of realizing how incredibly generous they've been until now to let people make fan series for 20 years. The difference with Axanar has literally zero to do with it being good (there have been many far better ones that had no incident, so that's total BS), it's to do with the recent opening of Pandora's box of crowdfunding. CBS has been forward thinking on the matter and lenient as long as the money was all towards production costs, and not profiteering, and Axanar went and spoiled it for everyone else by being greedy assholes. They're not for the fans, they're only out for themselves and their wallets. Not very Star Trek of them. :biggrin:

The fans have no entitlement to the IP. I don't agree with their criticisms of CBS/Paramount, because they have no legitimate or relevant arguments. Anyone who backs Axanar on this is wrong.


I don't agree with the fan film rules, and I think Beyond will be shit, but none of this makes Axanar right.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 25, 2016, 02:28:43 AM
They didn't just bite the hand.

They bit it clean off, chewed it and vomited it back all over Paramount's bloody stump and demanded they clean it up.

And I think Beyond will be great.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 25, 2016, 08:59:33 AM
Axanar wasn't even good. It's run of the mill fan film with pretty CGI and nostalgia actors. Star Trek Continues is so true to what Star Trek is about, and perfectly captures the feel of TOS, without the '60s sillyness.

Which I find "better" is 100% irrelevant to the whole thing though. It's the red herring Axanar is using to rally up their fanboys to divert from the real issue here for the people who had no interest in getting the whole picture, including JJ. They have zero right to make a fan film. People are getting angry at CBS/Paramount for putting limits on fan films and stopping Axanar, instead of realizing how incredibly generous they've been until now to let people make fan series for 20 years. The difference with Axanar has literally zero to do with it being good (there have been many far better ones that had no incident, so that's total BS), it's to do with the recent opening of Pandora's box of crowdfunding. CBS has been forward thinking on the matter and lenient as long as the money was all towards production costs, and not profiteering, and Axanar went and spoiled it for everyone else by being greedy assholes. They're not for the fans, they're only out for themselves and their wallets. Not very Star Trek of them. :biggrin:

The fans have no entitlement to the IP. I don't agree with their criticisms of CBS/Paramount, because they have no legitimate or relevant arguments. Anyone who backs Axanar on this is wrong.


I don't agree with the fan film rules, and I think Beyond will be shit, but none of this makes Axanar right.

Pretty good post, and aside from Axanar being shit I agree with it. Whether or not Axanar is good or better is irrelevant to propriety. That's why I phrased it as a personal thing. You hadn't chimed in on it that I recall. And note that I never said that the difference between this and the other fan-flicks was quality, but rather scale. The others still made money for the people to get by. Like you said, we've just reached a point where crowdfunding makes it easier to take in money to increase production budgets and Axanar has taken advantage of that. I simply see it as the logical continuation of the process. Lastly, as I said, Paramount has been generous letting people do this, though I have my own problems with IP (not just that I want everything for free, BTW). I just think they're now acting like buttheads. Instead of crafting rules to prevent profiteering they've pretty much nuked the entire thing, and while Axanar was the impetus for this, I don't blame Axanar for simply finding a better way to do what others have been doing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 25, 2016, 09:51:44 AM
The difference is not about just scale.
While the rules were formerly unwritten, they were still well known to those in the fan film circles from direct communication with CBS, and it really came down to transparency to ensure that the money was only for equipment/materials such as building materials etc, and not for paying salaries and directly profiting off of it. When there were Kickstarters, this information had to be clearly written to satisfy CBS on the matter. Star Trek Continues raised well over half a million between their 3 crowdfunding campaigns, and had been in constant direct contact with people from CBS to ensure there were no issues. Despite running for years under the careful watchful eye of CBS, they've had no major problems because they've had nothing but respect for CBS and whatever requests have been made. They've even had several former Trek cast members involved.
Renegades also crowdfunded a lot of money over multiple platforms (at least 700k). I'm not sure of their money breakdown, but they also ran without incident despite the relatively high profile for a fan film due to the involvement of many former cast actors. Again though, they've been diplomatic in their dealings with CBS, and respectful of the franchise.

Axanar put themselves on regular salaries, and paid professionals to make a Star Trek film, even started selling all kinds of merch based on the film, and then had the gall to give CBS the middle finger as if they were entitled to do what they pleased, and then when slapped with the lawsuit, brashly proclaimed they would win and defeat the evil CBS. In the process they've killed off fan films, and I do directly blame them for that. Axanar didn't do anything "better", they exploited the generosity of CBS allowing fan films and even crowdfunding them, and then spat in their face when called out on their shady business practices and profiteering.

With the ever growing quality and technology available for fan films, it was becoming a slippery slope, and a finer line between fan film, and flat out unlicensed movie. Axanar didn't even care to try to respect that line.

All of that said, I agree with the stupidity of CBS/Paramount's guidelines overall (strange given they're still being moderately lenient with crowdfunding), and think it hurts them more than it helps them. Best case, I'm hoping they're not hard and fast rules of "if you don't follow this, we'll sue you", but more of a guideline of "stick to this, and we guarantee we won't come after you" and if you exceed their limits, it will be case by case of whether they'll nuke you. They might have felt they had to cover their asses better for any future lawsuits, with the guidelines now written plain and simple for all to see. Some of the rules I totally understand, while others are excessive to the point of quashing fan films altogether.
The backlash on social media over this from fans has been huge, regardless of which side people fall on with Axanar's part in this, so I don't know what will happen once the dust settles.

Let's just agree that Trek is in a bad place right now. There's plenty of blame to go around. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 25, 2016, 10:38:43 AM

Let's just agree that Trek is in a bad place right now. There's plenty of blame to go around. :lol
Yeah, no disagreement there. I'm just looking at it from the standpoint that there hasn't been good trek in ages, and suddenly these Axanar people seem to be doing something that really piques my interest. Most of the fan stuff looks like high school level productions with some nice CGI to spruce it up. The feature Axanar film looks good enough to interest me far more than the Transformers in space stuff that we've been getting lately, so I'd like to see it happen.

Add to that, I think these people really know hat they're doing.  Making the proof of concept in the documentary style that they chose was a fantastic idea, and they added some nice touches that suggest they're actually fans and not just con artists. John Gill being the narrator was a pretty clever reference. They've chosen a time period that hasn't been done, but we're all somewhat familiar with. Pike era uniforms. Soval still the Vulcan ambassador. D6 and D7 Klingon ships and the beginning of the Constitution class. Garth of Izar who's an interesting character out of the gate. I just like where they're heading with it, and if they'd done it in the mother's basement it really wouldn't interest me in the least.

And I find it unlikely that the folks doing STB are doing this on weekends while working in cubicles during the week. They're paying themselves living wages for their efforts. What constitutes a living wage vs. profit is a nebulous distinction.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 25, 2016, 10:48:48 AM
And I find it unlikely that the folks doing STB are doing this on weekends while working in cubicles during the week. They're paying themselves living wages for their efforts. What constitutes a living wage vs. profit is a nebulous distinction.

What does that have to do with anything? The people making STB are working on an official movie. We're talking about fan films.

My opinion of Axanar's film aside, it's not about what they're making. It's about how they've gone about it, and how they've exploited the Trek IP. Had they handled themselves with the same class and respect for the IP holder as Star Trek Continues, I'd be supportive of them despite not enjoying it. But we don't get to decide which copyright infringement is ok based on what we like. People can't entitle themselves to an IP because they believe they can do better. The other fan films respected that they were playing in someone else's yard entirely on the goodwill of CBS, and recognized that it was a huge privilege being granted, not a right.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 25, 2016, 12:02:03 PM
And I find it unlikely that the folks doing STB are doing this on weekends while working in cubicles during the week. They're paying themselves living wages for their efforts. What constitutes a living wage vs. profit is a nebulous distinction.

What does that have to do with anything? The people making STB are working on an official movie. We're talking about fan films.
Interesting distinction, albeit one that I don't share. They're not shooting for a theatrical release (unless they are, which would certainly change things). Finances aside, the only difference between what they're doing and what Cawley et al are doing is the length and the production quality. Not sure why one's official and one's a fan film.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 25, 2016, 12:04:32 PM
And I find it unlikely that the folks doing STB are doing this on weekends while working in cubicles during the week. They're paying themselves living wages for their efforts. What constitutes a living wage vs. profit is a nebulous distinction.

What does that have to do with anything? The people making STB are working on an official movie. We're talking about fan films.
Interesting distinction, albeit one that I don't share. They're not shooting for a theatrical release (unless they are, which would certainly change things). Finances aside, the only difference between what they're doing and what Cawley et al are doing is the length and the production quality. Not sure why one's official and one's a fan film.

Because one's made by the people who own the property and one isn't.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 25, 2016, 12:07:34 PM

Because one's made by the people who own the property and one isn't.

Quite.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 25, 2016, 12:07:42 PM
And I find it unlikely that the folks doing STB are doing this on weekends while working in cubicles during the week. They're paying themselves living wages for their efforts. What constitutes a living wage vs. profit is a nebulous distinction.

What does that have to do with anything? The people making STB are working on an official movie. We're talking about fan films.
Interesting distinction, albeit one that I don't share. They're not shooting for a theatrical release (unless they are, which would certainly change things). Finances aside, the only difference between what they're doing and what Cawley et al are doing is the length and the production quality. Not sure why one's official and one's a fan film.

Because one's made by the people who own the property and one isn't.

Exactly. Huge and obvious difference. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 25, 2016, 01:09:00 PM
Of course. I mistyped and confused the issue for everybody. Sorry. I meant STC rather than STB. Fucking acronyms. How do they work. My point was that the folks behind ST Continues are still very likely supporting themselves by doing what they are. As I've said, they're just doing so on a much smaller scale and with far more courtesy.

Just watched one of their episodes. Certainly not highschool level production, like many of the others. Community theater is probably more applicable. Wasn't terrible at all. Don't care for the actors, aside from Doohan, and you eventually get used to the fake Kirk after a while. The writing was actually pretty good up until the final 5 minutes. I'll check out another episode or two. But at the end of the day it definitely looks like something that was made with a fraction of the money that Axanar is putting into it.

And there's something else that seems like a huge distinction to me, which I am not throwing out to continue the is Axanar evil debate. All of the earlier fan-flick stuff I've seen seems like total rehashing of earlier work and a lot of what we call fan wank. Cawley's stuff was pretty bad about that (planet killer, Matt Decker, gateway to eternity) and bringing back former characters because the actors are interested (one of them had now Admiral Kyle, FFS). An aged Chekhov was in another. The STC I just watched was Apollo coming back from wherever. One of the things that interests me about Axanar is that it's largely original. The only returning character is Soval, which is pretty reasonable given the time period they're playing in. I appreciate that they don't seem intersted in shoehorning Archer, or an aged Shatner mcguffin in there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 25, 2016, 01:15:17 PM
Of course. I mistyped and confused the issue for everybody. Sorry. I meant STC rather than STB. Fucking acronyms. How do they work. My point was that the folks behind ST Continues are still very likely supporting themselves by doing what they are. As I've said, they're just doing so on a much smaller scale and with far more courtesy.

STC is registered as a non profit organization, with public records of funds, and they don't get paid for their time, and they even funded the first episode themselves out of pocket for over $100k. They've probably lost money on it if anything. There is a huge difference between STC and Axanar. Axanar has hired everyone to work, the main guy is paying himself a steady salary from the money so he doesn't have to otherwise work, and they've been selling their own Trek merch, and they've used the money to hire studio space for other ventures. They're leeches.

The first episode of STC is my least favourite btw. Too idealistic and hokey. The second episode is probably my favourite.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 25, 2016, 01:30:03 PM
Of course. I mistyped and confused the issue for everybody. Sorry. I meant STC rather than STB. Fucking acronyms. How do they work. My point was that the folks behind ST Continues are still very likely supporting themselves by doing what they are. As I've said, they're just doing so on a much smaller scale and with far more courtesy.

STC is registered as a non profit organization, with public records of funds, and they don't get paid for their time, and they even funded the first episode themselves out of pocket for over $100k. They've probably lost money on it if anything. There is a huge difference between STC and Axanar. Axanar has hired everyone to work, the main guy is paying himself a steady salary from the money so he doesn't have to otherwise work, and they've been selling their own Trek merch, and they've used the money to hire studio space for other ventures. They're leeches.

I believe nonprofits still get to support themselves, though. You can open up a charitable, nonprofit Save The Dingos Foundation and pay yourself to do it. You just have to account for the money and pay yourself reasonably. Same thing with churches. Father Chester isn't expected to work for free. I get the distinction between Axanar and STC in that regard, and I can see how it would ruffle some feathers. I just don't think that in reality it's all that different, if Axanar can justify where the money goes.

Quote
The first episode of STC is my least favourite btw. Too idealistic and hokey. The second episode is my favourite.
I was actually going to ask, but I wanted to watch one during lunch and there's not telling when you'd get back. I tend to think it's always 0400 last Thursday down where you are.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 25, 2016, 07:00:08 PM
(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/FB_IMG_1466902513423_zpsshjt4raz.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/FB_IMG_1466902513423_zpsshjt4raz.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 25, 2016, 07:01:09 PM
One of the few fictitious candidate possibilities that I would vote for without hesitation and would actually make the country....nay, the world a better place.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 25, 2016, 07:15:52 PM
Sure would. Great time to own that shirt.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 25, 2016, 11:49:40 PM
Of course. I mistyped and confused the issue for everybody. Sorry. I meant STC rather than STB. Fucking acronyms. How do they work. My point was that the folks behind ST Continues are still very likely supporting themselves by doing what they are. As I've said, they're just doing so on a much smaller scale and with far more courtesy.

STC is registered as a non profit organization, with public records of funds, and they don't get paid for their time, and they even funded the first episode themselves out of pocket for over $100k. They've probably lost money on it if anything. There is a huge difference between STC and Axanar. Axanar has hired everyone to work, the main guy is paying himself a steady salary from the money so he doesn't have to otherwise work, and they've been selling their own Trek merch, and they've used the money to hire studio space for other ventures. They're leeches.

I believe nonprofits still get to support themselves, though. You can open up a charitable, nonprofit Save The Dingos Foundation and pay yourself to do it. You just have to account for the money and pay yourself reasonably. Same thing with churches. Father Chester isn't expected to work for free. I get the distinction between Axanar and STC in that regard, and I can see how it would ruffle some feathers. I just don't think that in reality it's all that different, if Axanar can justify where the money goes.

Quote
The first episode of STC is my least favourite btw. Too idealistic and hokey. The second episode is my favourite.
I was actually going to ask, but I wanted to watch one during lunch and there's not telling when you'd get back. I tend to think it's always 0400 last Thursday down where you are.

It's actually 0400 next Thursday, thank you very much. :blob:
Vic from STC has outright said none of them are getting paid salaries. I don't know if that includes extras like the big guests stars or just the regulars, I can't claim to account for every single dollar, but the point is they certainly aren't doing it to profit themselves as a business venture. It's a labour of love. And they're not selling merch or DVDs or paying themselves to not have to work any other job, etc.
I admit there's a lot of room for grey area, but the intent of STC is simply to make the fan film and they've respected CBS's wishes at every step, while Axanar is copyright abuse for profit by a known conman who has declared bankruptcy multiple times.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 26, 2016, 06:53:29 PM
Of course. I mistyped and confused the issue for everybody. Sorry. I meant STC rather than STB. Fucking acronyms. How do they work. My point was that the folks behind ST Continues are still very likely supporting themselves by doing what they are. As I've said, they're just doing so on a much smaller scale and with far more courtesy.

STC is registered as a non profit organization, with public records of funds, and they don't get paid for their time, and they even funded the first episode themselves out of pocket for over $100k. They've probably lost money on it if anything. There is a huge difference between STC and Axanar. Axanar has hired everyone to work, the main guy is paying himself a steady salary from the money so he doesn't have to otherwise work, and they've been selling their own Trek merch, and they've used the money to hire studio space for other ventures. They're leeches.

I believe nonprofits still get to support themselves, though. You can open up a charitable, nonprofit Save The Dingos Foundation and pay yourself to do it. You just have to account for the money and pay yourself reasonably. Same thing with churches. Father Chester isn't expected to work for free. I get the distinction between Axanar and STC in that regard, and I can see how it would ruffle some feathers. I just don't think that in reality it's all that different, if Axanar can justify where the money goes.

Quote
The first episode of STC is my least favourite btw. Too idealistic and hokey. The second episode is my favourite.
I was actually going to ask, but I wanted to watch one during lunch and there's not telling when you'd get back. I tend to think it's always 0400 last Thursday down where you are.

It's actually 0400 next Thursday, thank you very much. :blob:
Vic from STC has outright said none of them are getting paid salaries. I don't know if that includes extras like the big guests stars or just the regulars, I can't claim to account for every single dollar, but the point is they certainly aren't doing it to profit themselves as a business venture. It's a labour of love. And they're not selling merch or DVDs or paying themselves to not have to work any other job, etc.
I admit there's a lot of room for grey area, but the intent of STC is simply to make the fan film and they've respected CBS's wishes at every step, while Axanar is copyright abuse for profit by a known conman who has declared bankruptcy multiple times.
The area's gray enough that I don't see the stark distinction you do, but such is life.

Out of curiosity, is Axanar still producing the full length feature? Seems that Paramount has dropped their civil suit, but I'm not sure what that means going forward.

Surprised you found E1 too idealistic and hokey but not E2. The first one was mostly fluff, but the second one was After School Special level preachiness. Kept expecting Tasha Yar and Wesley Crusher to walk out and deliver a heartfelt lecture on the evils of slavery. Honestly, I thought they were both decent right up until the final 5 minutes when they turned sappy as hell. The mirror universe episode was pretty entertaining, but at this point it's seeming like an awful lot of fan wank. I'd say that the set and production is quite good. The acting is awful. The writing is good at a script level, plenty of good dialogue, but pretty week at the story level.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 26, 2016, 07:02:39 PM
Bart, you are confusing the hell out of me. I just skimmed through some STC, and I was on board with what you're saying until you mention what sounds like a typical TNG bash. Then I was totally lost.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 26, 2016, 07:45:34 PM
Bart, you are confusing the hell out of me. I just skimmed through some STC, and I was on board with what you're saying until you mention what sounds like a typical TNG bash. Then I was totally lost.
Remember one of the very first TNG episodes where one planet gets another planet hooked on some dope that only they can produce? They run through the DARE drugs are bad PSA on the bridge? The second STC is just about as heavy-handed.

Overall, I'd recommend watching one or two of them. It's not awful and at times it's entertaining enough. It just requires some suspension of disbelief to buy into the main cast. I did really like Lou Ferigno in the second episode. However, when he's the best actor you've got to put out there it's a pretty bad sign.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 26, 2016, 07:48:24 PM
Oh you were just comparing them. My bad. I was skimming through the episode and was like "wait....no Tasha or Wesley....."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 27, 2016, 01:05:35 AM
Out of curiosity, is Axanar still producing the full length feature? Seems that Paramount has dropped their civil suit, but I'm not sure what that means going forward.

They never dropped the suit, that was JJ talking out of his ass that got repeated over the net. Paramount was trying to settle out of court, but knowing the idiots at Axanar, it appears that obviously won't happen, so I'd say their squishing like bugs is still pending. There's zero chance they'll get the movie done, especially now they've destroyed fan films entirely.

I'm now convinced you don't like any Trek unless it has a healthy dose of '60s sexism and ideals.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 27, 2016, 01:13:46 AM
Out of curiosity, is Axanar still producing the full length feature? Seems that Paramount has dropped their civil suit, but I'm not sure what that means going forward.

They never dropped the suit, that was JJ talking out of his ass that got repeated over the net. Paramount was trying to settle out of court, but knowing the idiots at Axanar, it appears that obviously won't happen, so I'd say their squishing like bugs is still pending. There's zero chance they'll get the movie done, especially now they've destroyed fan films entirely.

I'm now convinced you don't like any Trek unless it has a healthy dose of '60s sexism and ideals.

I don't think Barto likes any of the ideal stuff. He seems to prefer the conflict based trek with very flawed characters etc. Luckily, DS9 did that brilliantly, so there's something for everyone. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 27, 2016, 08:05:00 AM
Another trailer for Beyond-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MBXBMkcUNo

I hope there was no important audio past the halfway point, because it's bad enough suffering through a Beyond trailer, let alone having to listen to Rhianna with it. :P
Basically more of the spoilery Enterprise crashing sequence, and holy explosions Batman.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 27, 2016, 08:39:27 AM
I'm now convinced you don't like any Trek unless it has a healthy dose of '60s sexism and ideals.
Like Adami suggested, I just don't like preachy and sappy. While I do like conflict, I really like the ethical variety. That's why I wanted to like the TSC stuff; they seem to get that.

And contrary to what Kowtow seems to think, I like mos of ST, even TNG.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 27, 2016, 11:55:11 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/i0ox4NX.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 27, 2016, 12:26:17 PM
I like that the folks in Riverside just made that up. The only thing anybody knows is Iowa, so they figure "hey, why don't we just say it was our town?" First come, first serve. That makes me chuckle for some reason.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 27, 2016, 01:02:02 PM
Ha, I didn't realize that.  I remembered Iowa, but wasn't sure if it was specified any further than that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on June 27, 2016, 02:18:27 PM
I didn't get any indication that ST6 era was off the table, but one can hope. The best thing they could do is go post VOY/NEM.

Sorry, that was in another link:
https://trekcore.com/blog/2016/06/bryan-fuller-shoots-down-two-star-trek-2017-rumors/

Post VOY would be the obvious choice of course. Post Khitomer conference would have been very bold and daring and interesting for many reasons I posted before.
But as long as they get the right tone and a certain level of quality I'm sure I'll be happy.

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 27, 2016, 02:19:51 PM
I just want it to be 15 years since Nemesis so that the TNG crew can cameo before they start popping off.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 27, 2016, 02:28:34 PM
I want it to be set in the 1960's before we had space travel and it's just a bunch of nerds in a room talking about how cool it would be.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 27, 2016, 02:36:48 PM
I like the 50's better when an African American couldn't put his name on the comic.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 27, 2016, 02:42:54 PM
wtf is going on
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 27, 2016, 02:57:50 PM
wtf is going on

You miss what episode I'm hinting at?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 27, 2016, 02:59:57 PM
i've barely seen any TOS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 27, 2016, 03:01:54 PM
DS9
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 27, 2016, 03:03:59 PM
I've seen slightly more DS9 :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 27, 2016, 03:18:23 PM
I like the 50's better when an African American couldn't put his name on the comic.

An entire show based around that hallucination. Yes. Love it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 27, 2016, 03:43:23 PM
I like the 50's better when an African American couldn't put his name on the comic.

An entire show based around that hallucination. Yes. Love it.
Which, of course, came pretty close to being what happened. Although I suppose if they'd gone that route, the entire franchise would have been part of Benny's story.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: TAC on June 27, 2016, 03:54:19 PM
Just posting to say that this thread might as well be in Spanish. I don't know WTF anyone is talking about! :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 27, 2016, 03:58:10 PM
You shame us Tim.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: TAC on June 27, 2016, 04:18:32 PM
Set phaser on "shame". ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 27, 2016, 04:29:23 PM
Looking forward to

Wagon Train To The Stars 13 !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 28, 2016, 01:17:42 AM
I didn't get any indication that ST6 era was off the table, but one can hope. The best thing they could do is go post VOY/NEM.

Sorry, that was in another link:
https://trekcore.com/blog/2016/06/bryan-fuller-shoots-down-two-star-trek-2017-rumors/

Post VOY would be the obvious choice of course. Post Khitomer conference would have been very bold and daring and interesting for many reasons I posted before.
But as long as they get the right tone and a certain level of quality I'm sure I'll be happy.

Greetings...
Nef

Thanks for the link. I'm shocked that one got past me. :lol
So far, the show is actually more and more shaping up to be what I'm hoping for, so I'm somewhere between indifferent and cautiously optimistic now. Trek has always worked best on television, so I would hate for them to mess this up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 28, 2016, 08:43:15 AM
Finally hit my breaking point with STC. Made it halfway through the 4th episode and turned it off in disgust. Shame, as I actually liked what they were trying to do. They'd have great ideas but fail to pull them off, or they'd do a great job at executing a poor idea. And always too much callback to TOS episodes. I like that they're willing to redo bits of it with the new actors, the mirror universe episode actually worked, but this was way over the top.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 28, 2016, 08:44:28 AM
Ah.

If only they were doing it for fun and weren't making any money off it...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 28, 2016, 08:49:01 AM
A fan continuation of TOS with some callbacks to TOS? Well I never!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 28, 2016, 08:49:37 AM
A fan continuation of TOS with some callbacks to TOS? Well I never!


:rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 28, 2016, 09:36:46 AM
A fan continuation of TOS with some callbacks to TOS? Well I never!
You know damn well what I mean. Every episode is built around them. I've got no problem with making references to things from other episodes, but write stories and throw them in from time to time. Seems like every production meeting must have started with "which character should we bring back this time? Hey, let's have Trellaine put Kirk, the Gorn and that guy from Court Marshal  on the planet with the guardian of forever so they can go back and time and prevent the space amoeba from destroying the planet Harry Mudd was on." "Brilliant!"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 28, 2016, 09:48:55 AM
You know damn well what I mean. Every episode is built around them.

Only half of them sorta tie to TOS episodes (the most recent two have nothing to do with previous TOS episodes), but none of them feel like they're relying on fan service to me.
Pilgrim of Eternity is based on a thoroughly mediocre TOS episode, and does something completely different with it. And for a first episode, it was cool to get an original TOS actor to reprise their role.
The mirror universe is something that's been done in numerous TOS era books and fan series, along with DS9, because there's a lot of potential there, and it's just good fun. I have no problem with that.
The White Iris is a completely original story that deals with Kirk's past, so it made much more sense to have some actual continuity there rather than invent all new characters with no resonance to the story. Again, not seeing a problem, even if it wasn't one of my personal favs of STC.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 28, 2016, 10:20:14 AM
Pilgrim and the mirror episode weren't too bad, but they do show a pattern. White Iris was terrible, though. From the first two minutes, "My God! It's effected the part of his brain that controls memory and guilt!" you knew it was going to be pretty awful. Then it just turns into bringing back old characters from Kirk's past into a holodeck they're not even supposed to have. I thought the Orion girl episode was too heavy-handed, but at least it was an original story that didn't rely on dredging up past characters.

Like I've said, I like what they're trying to do. I'll look at the latter episodes and see if something looks interesting, at least in that it doesn't rely on things already done. I just think they're going too far out of their way to find ways to tie in.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 28, 2016, 11:03:46 PM
The restored Enterprise is back on display-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa79FmRRgJ0
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 29, 2016, 08:09:58 AM
It's cool that they got all of the lighting wired back up. I know that the mothership from Close Encounters is on display at Udvar-Hazy, and they couldn't even begin to understand the wiring in that thing. For the Enterprise they had a series of videos showing everything that went into the restoration and it was quite an undertaking. This was the first time it was completely disassembled so they could actually tell everything that was inside.

BTW, the Civil War episode of STC wasn't bad at all. That's more of what I was looking for. It was an original story (albeit a tad predictable) and it didn't rely on throwing the TOS kitchen sink at the screen. The only reference that I noticed was Dr. M'Binga, who was a good and underused character in TOS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 29, 2016, 10:23:11 AM
The TOS Enterprise is so bland compared to the designs that followed.

It probably looked great in 1966 but it's basically 3 cylinders and a flying saucer.

The TMP refit is in my opinion the best looking Enterprise. I actually rate the "Kelvin Tmeline" Enterprise highly too - just below Enterprise E - which is super sexy.


Reboot Enterprise is kind of a middle ground between TOS and TMP designs.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 29, 2016, 10:28:33 AM
The TOS Enterprise established an iconic shape that has been used continuously since, and is instantly recognizable. That can't be overstated enough. Spaceships at the time were all flying saucers and rockets. It struck the perfect proportions that the JJPrise failed miserably to understand, with it's odd front heavy look and weirdly swept secondary hull. It also doesn't look as believable, totally over-engineered for the sake of visual complexity rather than function, which is typical of modern Hollywood.

I don't know what my favourite is. The refit is beautiful, but I think I'll go with the Enterprise-E. It deviated nicely from the basic design without losing the essence. The refit was the perfect update on the original design though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on June 29, 2016, 11:27:09 AM
Metamorphosis.. ehh, boring but could have been worse.
Journey To Babel, quality episode, enjoyed the story line and dialogue throughout.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 29, 2016, 11:51:48 AM
Metamorphosis.. ehh, boring but could have been worse.
Journey To Babel, quality episode, enjoyed the story line and dialogue throughout.
Babel is a great episode. Always thought very highly of it as a Spock story. It also establishes Sarek who'll return from time to time in the movies and other series.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 29, 2016, 11:53:47 AM
Yeah, Journey to Babel is a good one, and an important episode for Spock. Metamorphosis is average, but has the curiosity of Zephram Cochrane.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 29, 2016, 01:05:30 PM
I still say Sarek is the ultimate (full) Vulcan that any ST ever showed us.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on June 29, 2016, 01:51:48 PM
Absolutely, and one of my favorite Trek characters overall.  But it makes perfect sense.  They had Spock, then came up with the idea of introducing his parents.  Why was Spock the way he is?  We know his mother is human and his father is Vulcan, so Spock's father had to be "extremely Vulcan" (whatever that means).

Spock was a pretty strict guy, and Nimoy played him brilliantly, as it was often clear that he was "acting" Vulcan, and always struggling internally to "be Vulcan".  With Sarek, it was in his very nature.  There was no acting involved, no inner struggle.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on June 29, 2016, 05:55:05 PM
I agree with all that, especially about Nimoy, at first I thought I liked his acting because he was surrounded by horrible actors all the time on the show but now I see that he was special and truly dove into the character's psyche.
William Shatner and DeForest Kelley are passable at times, more the former than the latter, but they're just awful overall and I know their appeal with the modern fans is somewhat sarcastic, as in they like them cause they're bad, but sometimes it gets to be too much and this is coming from a guy who genuinely enjoys quiet a lot of 50's/60's American entertainment.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 29, 2016, 06:25:41 PM
This is the first i'm hearing of DeForest being a bad actor.
waits for el barto to come in and say they're all shit actors even montalban
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 29, 2016, 06:29:37 PM
He's an actor,  not a.....
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on June 29, 2016, 07:01:12 PM
Dammit Jim, he's an actor,  not a.....

Fixed.

Also he was great as Bones. Did he have a ton of depth? No. But it's not the writing that made his character one of the most memorable in TV.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on June 29, 2016, 07:07:11 PM
Perfect.   I so blew it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on June 29, 2016, 09:13:06 PM
I still say Sarek is the ultimate (full) Vulcan that any ST ever showed us.
Sarek was a very good Vulcan, but he was a pretty limited character. You got one episode of him being good and stoically logical, a couple of cameos and then two episodes where he's falling apart. Don't get me wrong, he set the bar for what true Vulcans should be, but he didn't do enough to be the ultimate Vulcan in my book. I believe we've discussed this before, and I still think Tuvok was the only one to get significant airtime and remain truly Vulcan the entire time.  He also remained the best outside observer of humanity, which I think is part of why Vulcans work in Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on June 30, 2016, 11:10:56 AM
Woo Hoo !!!

All series of Star Trek are now on Netflix UK !!!!

TOS & TNG are remastered too.

Finally I have stuff to watch.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on June 30, 2016, 07:52:27 PM
I could have guessed Puff Daddy was British before I would have guessed you Kotowboy :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 01, 2016, 01:51:27 AM
 :police: u wot m8
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 01, 2016, 04:00:58 PM
Watching TOS : " The Doomsday Machine ".

Dunno if it's a bad edit on Netflix or the original episode. At exactly 5 minutes in - Kirk says " Have Dr. McCoy, Mr Scott...VERY OBVIOUS NEW TAKE...And a damage control party report to me..."

Can anyone else check their DVDs or whatever ? That's a really bad edit if that was original. I know it was 1967 but still. . .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 01, 2016, 09:42:50 PM
I notice it on my DVD version. Seems pretty normal for a '60s TV show to me. I don't know how they did anything before non-linear editing on a computer. :blob:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 01, 2016, 09:54:15 PM
Friday's Child, lots of funny moments on this episode!

Quote
Spock: Only a very slight chance it would work.
Kirk: Well, if you don't think we can, maybe we shouldn't try.
Spock: Captain, I didn't say that exactly.

Snarky Kirk all over this episode, I love it haha
And again:

Quote
McCoy: Capellans aren't human, Jim. They're humanoid. There's certain internal differences. I don't have equipment to handle an emergency.
Kirk: Well, if you don't think you can handle it..
McCoy: Forget it. I can do it. The last thing I want around is a ham-handed ship's captain.

I had to google what "ham-handed" meant heh

Quote
McCoy: I'll need help getting her in there.
Eleen: No!
McCoy: Look, I'm a doctor, not an escalator!

Instant classic  :rollin

Quote
McCoy to baby: Oochy-woochy coochy-coo. Oochy-woochy coochy-coo.
Spock: Oochy-woochy coochy-coo, Captain?
Kirk: An obscure Earth dialect, Mister Spock.

 :lol

Also notable that Chekov referred to his country as Russia, not Soviet Union or USSR, I remember making a remark about that happening before and how I found it of note that an American TV show from the 60's could imagine a distant future where the USSR no longer exists, unless the names Soviet Union and USSR were never in use in America, even when the entity existed and was at it's prime.
And finally I love it when Scotty takes over as captain, he's the wisest one I've seen take over so far.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 02, 2016, 01:09:47 AM
As I've said in the past, it's always great when somebody other than Kirk or Spock is in command. Scotty's approach almost always involves "well I bet this'll fuck with them." Didn't much care for the episode, but I recall that it was a pretty good Klingon they had there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Cool Chris on July 03, 2016, 12:32:00 AM
Scott takes the conn in the 30's gangster episode I believe.

One of my all-time favorite scenes! FIZZBIN!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DeIExLcURQ


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 03, 2016, 02:59:51 PM
Watching the episode of TNG where the universe shrinks down to the size of the Enterprise and Beverly is the only one on board.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 03, 2016, 04:05:04 PM
That one was trippy the first time I saw it.  I love when she asks the computer to define the Universe, which it shouldn't be able to do, and it gives the dimensions of the "bubble" of habitable space that it just gave to her.  Beverly was good, maybe not great.  I like her and she's in the "hot doctor" category for me, but Gates didn't quite have the chops to carry the whole episode like that.  Almost, but not quite.  Still a good watch.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 03, 2016, 05:17:16 PM
I like the DAHM CAHNDLE episode.   

 ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 03, 2016, 05:23:09 PM
I like the DAHM CAHNDLE episode.   

 ;D

Oh come on man, don't totally discredit yourself like that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 03, 2016, 05:27:32 PM
I like the DAHM CAHNDLE episode.   

 ;D

Oh come on man, don't totally discredit yourself like that.



pssst - he also thinks InsurrectiYAWN is the best Trek movie ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 03, 2016, 05:29:38 PM
I like the DAHM CAHNDLE episode.   

 ;D

Oh come on man, don't totally discredit yourself like that.

pssst - he also thinks InsurrectiYAWN is the best Trek movie ;)

Eh, some people have weird opinions, I'm cool with that. But liking the candle episode is just.....I can't.

(https://imagesmtv-a.akamaihd.net/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:mtv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Game-of-Thrones-7-1467045576.gif)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 03, 2016, 10:22:35 PM
I love that episode the same way I love Plan 9 From Outer Space.

Something about it is so freaking hokey that I just find myself enjoying it.    I laugh the same way I laugh at Sharknado....and I enjoy myself.   So sue me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on July 04, 2016, 12:59:48 AM
There are much worse episodes in the series. At least he didn't say that he liked a fistful of datas...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 04, 2016, 01:01:30 AM
There are much worse episodes in the series. At least he didn't say that he liked a fistful of datas...

That is preferable. At least silly Data is entertaining on some level.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on July 04, 2016, 02:54:20 AM
There are much worse episodes in the series. At least he didn't say that he liked a fistful of datas...

That is preferable. At least silly Data is entertaining on some level.

For me, every time that one of the series tried to have a cowboys/western themed episode they failed miserably. One of the worst episodes of Enterprise (before it went of the rails towards the end) was cowboy/western themed as well. I can't remember the name of the specific episode, but it dealt with discrimination against an alien culture. It failed on every level.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Polarbear on July 04, 2016, 03:21:00 AM
There are much worse episodes in the series. At least he didn't say that he liked a fistful of datas...

Fistful of Datas is nothing compared to Naked Now from season 1, or that one in season 7 where Wesley drops out of starfleet to become a jedi master.

Those 2 episodes still make me want to vomit!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 04, 2016, 04:36:37 AM
I sigh a bit when I start watching an episode and realise it's going to be one of those episodes where something happens to a person...

...then when someone else investigates - it happens to them. And so on.


Oh look this starship is drifting and everyone on board died of old age.

YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT !!!! :yawn:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 04, 2016, 08:32:41 AM
It was also one of those " it was all a hallucination " episodes yet they got the answers they needed within the hallucination and "saw" things that they shouldn't even know about.

I hate " it was all a dream " stories when we ( the audience ) see things that the protagonist inside the dream does not.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 04, 2016, 10:29:15 AM
:rollin.  TNG episode "Rascals" .

When they beam aboard the Enterprise and they're kids. Guinan's hat has shrunk too :rollin.

Would it be too weird to have them beam back as kids in full size uniforms ?

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 04, 2016, 10:56:27 AM
Also - whenever the Enterprise has alien intruders - that capture the crew - I don't know why Picard or Riker can't just say

" Computer - beam all intruders to the brig "


:lol

They get captured so easily.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 04, 2016, 12:26:23 PM
There are much worse episodes in the series. At least he didn't say that he liked a fistful of datas...

Fistful of Datas is nothing compared to Naked Now from season 1, or that one in season 7 where Wesley drops out of starfleet to become a jedi master.

Those 2 episodes still make me want to vomit!

At least The Naked Now had a hot Tasha Yar and Picard's awesome "Not now Beverly!".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 04, 2016, 12:50:37 PM
Ha ha, true!  That sound Picard makes when he *just about* loses his control -- sounds somewhere between a hrumph! and clearing his throat and maybe choking just a little bit -- is great.

I always thought Denise Crosby was medium-hot at best, but she does look good here.  And the best part of about her encounter with Data is the payoff, a season and a half later, when Data gets to tell Captain Louvois (the JAG lady) under oath that he and Tasha "were intimate" and we see just the tiniest squirm, more of a minor readjustment really, from her as she considers this.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 04, 2016, 04:08:29 PM
"The Drumhead".

Love these episodes. When someone is an absolutely horrible person and only wants to satisfy themselves and do anything to get it.


You really hate that person and love when it backfires on them.


Satie reminds me of that Bajoran bitch from DS9. You're supposed to hate them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 04, 2016, 04:14:46 PM
Ha ha, true!  That sound Picard makes when he *just about* loses his control -- sounds somewhere between a hrumph! and clearing his throat and maybe choking just a little bit -- is great.

Yea, Picard is really great in an otherwise horrible episode. I'd actually love to see that moment in the script. I just want to see what Sir Patrick read that made him say "Ah yes, I know exactly what sound to make".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 04, 2016, 04:31:50 PM
Another bitch in Silicon Avatar. :lol

They do like writing uptight old women on Star Trek.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 04, 2016, 06:41:41 PM
Also - whenever the Enterprise has alien intruders - that capture the crew - I don't know why Picard or Riker can't just say

" Computer - beam all intruders to the brig "


 :lol

They get captured so easily.
I was always amused by how easy it was to steel a shuttlecraft. Even kids have no problem getting away.

"Sir, there'a an unauthorized shuttle launch in progress."
"Well stop it!"
"Too late sir."
"Seal the hangar bay doors!"
"Too late sir."
"Tractor beam."
"Too late, sir, he's out of range."
"Lay in a pursuit-"
"Main engines offline, sir."
"Arm photon torpedoes"
"He's gone to warp sir. We lost him."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 04, 2016, 10:07:29 PM
"Sir, there'a an unauthorized shuttle launch in progress."
"Well stop it!"
"Too late sir."
"Seal the hangar bay doors!"
"Too late sir."
"Tractor beam."
"Too late, sir, he's out of range."
"Lay in a pursuit-"
"Main engines offline, sir."
"Arm photon torpedoes"
"He's gone to warp sir. We lost him."

Yep.  Every time.   :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 05, 2016, 07:03:27 AM
 :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 05, 2016, 02:25:38 PM
‘Star Trek’ Comic-Con Panel: Actors From Every Series Promote New Show (https://variety.com/2016/tv/news/star-trek-comic-con-panel-hall-h-new-show-enterprise-voyager-1201808685/)

That's interesting.  Hopefully the panel will give some actual information on the show, and not be a 50th Anniversary circle jerk.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 05, 2016, 02:52:30 PM
I like who they picked.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 06, 2016, 09:51:43 AM
Smithsonian Channel will premiere a two-hour special in September about the efforts of teams at two U.S. museums to conserve artifacts from the “Star Trek” television series (https://variety.com/2016/tv/news/star-trek-museum-special-smithsonian-channel-1201808936/)

That should be interesting.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 06, 2016, 01:40:42 PM
I like who they picked.

Me too, but I have a feeling it's more of a "Hey guys, we'll pay you to go up there and promote the show that you know almost nothing about."

I hope it's more than that, not that I'll be able to see it anyway haha.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 06, 2016, 01:59:00 PM
Oh it is but I still love to hear the stories.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 06, 2016, 04:02:42 PM
Here's a question.

" The Inner Light ".

Would you prefer they'd stayed on the planet in Picard's head for the entire episode until the very end then the big reveal or jumping back and forth to the Enterprise like they did ?

I think having the entire episode on the planet would have been cool. It would have been like " How is this going to end ? ! "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 06, 2016, 04:24:51 PM
The ending is the only part of the episode that feels awkward.  I know what they were going for, but it doesn't quite work.  That said, I'm not sure having it be a "big reveal" would have been better.  It still comes down to how well it is written.

One thing I love about the way it's presented now is that first cut to what's happening on the Enterprise.  We've been following Picard as Kamin for a while already, but when they cut back to the Enterprise, Picard has just fallen and they're calling sick bay.  That threw me for a loop.  Then after years have passed on the planet, we cut back to the Enterprise and it's only been like ten minutes.  Kamin's life has been compressed, and Picard lives it in 25 minutes.  I like getting thrown like that, having to figure out what's going on instead of having everything spoon-fed to me.  Maybe that's what bugs me about the ending.  For the sake of the lowest common denominators out there, they have to completely explain everything.  I mean, come on.  Picard: "Oh... oh, it's me... isn't it? I'm the someone. I'm the one it finds. That's what this launching is – a probe that finds me in the future!"

It seems like they could have made it just a bit more interesting, have the viewer work at least some of it out themselves, which would lead to a sense of accomplishment and thus greater satisfaction in the story overall.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 06, 2016, 04:26:55 PM
Yeah we already know Picard is the one that the probe finds - we're reminded of it constantly.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 06, 2016, 04:29:25 PM
Also in " Starship Mine " when Data is imitating that talkative commander and he pokes Will Riker - it sounds like Frakes laughs for real.


EDIT : And it also stars Tim Russ as Not Tuvok.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 06, 2016, 05:00:01 PM
The ending is the only part of the episode that feels awkward.  I know what they were going for, but it doesn't quite work.  That said, I'm not sure having it be a "big reveal" would have been better.  It still comes down to how well it is written.

One thing I love about the way it's presented now is that first cut to what's happening on the Enterprise.  We've been following Picard as Kamin for a while already, but when they cut back to the Enterprise, Picard has just fallen and they're calling sick bay.  That threw me for a loop.  Then after years have passed on the planet, we cut back to the Enterprise and it's only been like ten minutes.  Kamin's life has been compressed, and Picard lives it in 25 minutes.  I like getting thrown like that, having to figure out what's going on instead of having everything spoon-fed to me.  Maybe that's what bugs me about the ending.  For the sake of the lowest common denominators out there, they have to completely explain everything.  I mean, come on.  Picard: "Oh... oh, it's me... isn't it? I'm the someone. I'm the one it finds. That's what this launching is – a probe that finds me in the future!"

It seems like they could have made it just a bit more interesting, have the viewer work at least some of it out themselves, which would lead to a sense of accomplishment and thus greater satisfaction in the story overall.
Yeah, I agree. The first cut-back to the enterprise was the mindfuck. Once that's done then the rest is just a nice story. And I think I've mentioned it before, but JLP winding up with the flute was a silly contrivance. How did they know to put it in the probe? What if he'd displayed a fondness for painting instead?

And Non-Tuvok shows up several times. I think he was on DS9 at some point, and also in one of the movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 06, 2016, 05:10:11 PM
Kamin's flute was a silly contrivance, but I like it.  Picard can now play that instrument because he lived Kamin's life.  That's a bit more of their culture living on than they'd bargained for.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 06, 2016, 08:23:31 PM
And Non-Tuvok shows up several times. I think he was on DS9 at some point, and also in one of the movies.

Yep, he was a Klingon in the episode where they're trying to steal the Dax symbiote. And it was Generations he showed up in. He was also in the running to play the part of Geordi Laforge. I'm glad he didn't get that part, because he's so perfectly suited to playing Tuvok.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on July 07, 2016, 03:08:09 AM
I wonder what we're going to get at Comic-Con, aside from a fun panel telling us how great it's gonna be. :biggrin:
A picture or video clip of a ship? Design concepts and test makeup of a new alien species? Cast names? Anything else? :justjen

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 07, 2016, 10:37:48 AM
World Premiere in Sydney tonight !!

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 07, 2016, 07:36:50 PM
World Premiere in Sydney tonight !!

Of what?


Also, the new Sulu is gay, and ironically, George Takei is not a fan.


And last but not least, I was suddenly reminded of one of my favorite Data moments. "To know him was to love him, and to love him was to know him. Those who knew him, loved him, and those who didn't know him, loved him... from afar."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 07, 2016, 07:41:43 PM
Also, the new Sulu is gay, and ironically, George Takei is not a fan.

I agree with Takei. I'm all for a gay character in the Trek universe, and expect and hope the new show addresses it, but tacking it onto an existing character with no history of being a gay character just because Takei is gay, is kind of lame. It appears as if it will be handled well enough, but the situation makes it feel token. They've had two whole movies already in the reboot to address this, but this wasn't even intended for reboot Sulu until now. They've tacked this in after the fact.
I have no problem with a gay character, or that it's Sulu, but this feels misplaced to me. That said, it doesn't really bother me. It's not like Sulu was a womanizer in TOS, or in the reboot, but they could have just as easily created a new gay character.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 07, 2016, 08:12:42 PM
Also, the new Sulu is gay, and ironically, George Takei is not a fan.

I agree with Takei. I'm all for a gay character in the Trek universe, and expect and hope the new show addresses it, but tacking it onto an existing character with no history of being a gay character just because Takei is gay, is kind of lame. It appears as if it will be handled well enough, but the situation makes it feel token. They've had two whole movies already in the reboot to address this, but this wasn't even intended for reboot Sulu until now. They've tacked this in after the fact.
I have no problem with a gay character, or that it's Sulu, but this feels misplaced to me. That said, it doesn't really bother me. It's not like Sulu was a womanizer in TOS, or in the reboot, but they could have just as easily created a new gay character.

To be fair, it's not like him being gay will matter at all in the movie. There will be one scene where he either mentions his husband or introduces someone to his husband who will be like "woah...okay....fair enough" then that will be it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 07, 2016, 08:18:59 PM
I know. It's not going to affect the impending trainwreck one way or another. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 07, 2016, 09:15:57 PM
I agree with all that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 08, 2016, 07:17:57 AM
It's not part of the character's past, but it also doesn't contradict the character's past.  So it's no big deal either way.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 08, 2016, 07:38:34 AM
It's not part of the character's past, but it also doesn't contradict the character's past.  So it's no big deal either way.

If we're including Prime Universe, the closest I can think of is having a daughter in Generations, and I don't recall they mention a mother, so even that isn't definitive.
It's more the execution of it than anything. It's not like they're turning Kirk gay. Then everyone would have a right to be pissed off. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 08, 2016, 08:00:53 AM
It would be awesome to do that, especially since they have already fucked up the reboot in almost every other way already.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 08, 2016, 08:03:05 AM
:lol You think they should just go down in flames at this point?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 08, 2016, 08:14:59 AM
If you're gonna be a bear, be a GRIZZLY.

in flames
lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 09, 2016, 12:01:21 PM
It would be awesome to do that, especially since they have already fucked up the reboot in almost every other way already.

Whilst still being better than at least half of the Next Gen movies...


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 09, 2016, 12:03:02 PM
It would be awesome to do that, especially since they have already fucked up the reboot in almost every other way already.

Whilst still being better than at least half of the Next Gen movies...

Well obviously we disagree, but personally I would only put ST2009 above Nemesis. I'd say the rest of the TNG movies are better than it, and I'd rather watch Nemesis than Into Darkness.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 09, 2016, 12:04:43 PM
Insurrection is by far my least favourite Trek movie. I hate it even more than The Final Frontier.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Dream Team on July 09, 2016, 04:04:26 PM
I still say Sarek is the ultimate (full) Vulcan that any ST ever showed us.
Sarek was a very good Vulcan, but he was a pretty limited character. You got one episode of him being good and stoically logical, a couple of cameos and then two episodes where he's falling apart. Don't get me wrong, he set the bar for what true Vulcans should be, but he didn't do enough to be the ultimate Vulcan in my book. I believe we've discussed this before, and I still think Tuvok was the only one to get significant airtime and remain truly Vulcan the entire time.  He also remained the best outside observer of humanity, which I think is part of why Vulcans work in Star Trek.

Sarek was great in the movies too, better than ever.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 09, 2016, 04:43:32 PM
" Where Silence Has Lease ".

Easily one of the best TNG episodes.

I wish one of the movies was as dark as this episode.



EDIT : looked it up and it was written by one of the writers of The Wrath of Khan.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 09, 2016, 05:13:39 PM
That dude's death was a classic. All around good episode.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_G777JJtwUs/TyHaeYfCcDI/AAAAAAAAApo/vjZeRGwQLQw/s1600/black-guy-gif-star-trek.gif)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 09, 2016, 06:20:23 PM
Yea, really good episode. Unfortunate it had to be constrained to the 41 minute or whatever time limit, it felt really rushed at the end to have a conclusion in time. I imagine, if given a proper running time, it could have really explored the concepts even more.

One great thing, while not just being dark, is that it keeps you guessing. It gives you surprises and does unexpected things. I miss that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 09, 2016, 07:34:23 PM
It would be awesome to do that, especially since they have already fucked up the reboot in almost every other way already.

Whilst still being better than at least half of the Next Gen movies...

Well obviously we disagree, but personally I would only put ST2009 above Nemesis. I'd say the rest of the TNG movies are better than it, and I'd rather watch Nemesis than Into Darkness.

Agreed on all counts. At least I can sit through Nemesis.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Polarbear on July 10, 2016, 04:12:17 AM
"Where Silence Has Lease" is the best TNG episode, of the first 2 seasons.
Q Who is my second favorite, and Measure of a Man third.

ST09 is the best Trek movie since Undiscovered Country IMO. Into Darkness is nowhere near as good, but still a fun movie. The TNG movies, with the exception of First Contact, are the lowest of the low points in the franchise. Nemesis and Generations are borderline disgusting.

In general, Trek has never worked well as movies, compared to the tv shows.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 10, 2016, 04:19:28 AM
ST09 is the best Trek movie since Undiscovered Country IMO. Into Darkness is nowhere near as good, but still a fun movie. The TNG movies, with the exception of First Contact, are the lowest of the low points in the franchise. Nemesis and Generations are borderline disgusting.

We are currently in the lowest of the low points in the franchise.

But at least I agree on the last part of your post. Trek, like any true scifi, works infinitely better on TV compared to the movies, especially in the current climate of movies being nothing but empty crap filled with explosions and crashes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 10, 2016, 03:14:29 PM
Picard paces up & down.


Troi : " I sense you are pacing up & down, Captain."

Picard : " Your empathic abilities are off the f---ing charts today, Counsellor ::) "




Also in Where No One Has Gone Before - they imply that Wes Crusher has some super natural abilities... And they never mention it again ever.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 10, 2016, 03:17:59 PM
Picard paces up & down.


Troi : " I sense you are pacing up & down, Captain."

Picard : " Your empathic abilities are off the f---ing charts today, Counsellor ::) "

I think a problem with her is that they didn't utilize her actual, obvious purpose. She's a strategic telepath. However, any time she could have been of any actual use "Captain, they are able to hide their thoughts from me". She was essentially a cripple on an Olympic running team. One good thing about Lawaxana showing up was that she had her full powers. Like when she exposed the assassination plan from these other aliens as if it were some after thought of hers. That's what Troi should have been, someone to get into the enemy's mind and give Picard insider information. Pretty sure if the show was remade today, that's more of the role she'd take.

Nevermind, I forgot how things work today. She'd be the super hot love interest of someone who does very little...........so pretty much the same.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 10, 2016, 04:20:26 PM
Also I love how every device has to flash or make a sound so you know it's working / the future.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 10, 2016, 07:36:32 PM
One good thing about Lawaxana showing up was that she had her full powers. Like when she exposed the assassination plan from these other aliens as if it were some after thought of hers. That's what Troi should have been, someone to get into the enemy's mind and give Picard insider information. Pretty sure if the show was remade today, that's more of the role she'd take.

I love that scene.  Lwaxana bugs me sometimes, but I'm pretty sure she's supposed to bug people sometimes, but that scene with the frozen fish people was badass.  "Oh please, they're not ambassadors, they're assassins!  Their brains are so... (something belittling and awesome) (and this is all paraphrased anyway)!"

Nevermind, I forgot how things work today. She'd be the super hot love interest of someone who does very little...........so pretty much the same.

And I'd be fine with that, as long as the actress was hot.  Mission accomplished.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 10, 2016, 07:42:20 PM


Nevermind, I forgot how things work today. She'd be the super hot love interest of someone who does very little...........so pretty much the same.

And I'd be fine with that, as long as the actress was hot.  Mission accomplished.

You know, for as scantily clothed as they often made alien species, they never took that opportunity with Troi, who was actually incredibly attractive underneath that horrible hair and super modest outfit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on July 10, 2016, 08:48:33 PM


Nevermind, I forgot how things work today. She'd be the super hot love interest of someone who does very little...........so pretty much the same.

And I'd be fine with that, as long as the actress was hot.  Mission accomplished.

The mini-skirt uniform in season 1.  :hat

You know, for as scantily clothed as they often made alien species, they never took that opportunity with Troi, who was actually incredibly attractive underneath that horrible hair and super modest outfit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 10, 2016, 08:52:27 PM
Didn't she only were the mini-skirt for the first episode or so? She looked amazing in that. She should have kept it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 10, 2016, 09:11:01 PM
Her legs weren't exactly her highlight, as nice as they were. They mostly kept hidden her other.....attributes.


God we're such men.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 10, 2016, 09:11:38 PM
So true. On both counts.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 10, 2016, 09:26:56 PM
Don't forget the famous yoga scene.... 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 10, 2016, 09:27:53 PM
Don't forget the famous yoga scene....

You know, maybe it's an age thing, but i never found those super tight 80's workout clothing attractive.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 10, 2016, 10:21:27 PM
It's funny. I never found her attractive until Ronny Cox made her where an actual Starfleet uniform. As I understand it, Marina Sirtis hounded them for a year and a half to get out of the catsuits and be an actual respectable character instead of a tart. Nine times out of ten I'd want to punch an actress in the mouth for such idiocy, but in this instance the girl was spot on. It was a huge improvement.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 11, 2016, 12:46:05 AM
And as I think more about it, the biggest problem is that they tend to try and make troi-centric episodes and they almost always suck really, really hard. The episode where they turn her into a romulan was pretty good. Every other Troi episode sucked two pair of throbbing, steaming donkey balls.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on July 11, 2016, 01:42:15 AM
...that scene with the frozen fish people was badass...

You mean Mick Fleetwood in full Antedean mode?
Imagine an Antedean drummer...

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 11, 2016, 02:25:04 AM
Nine times out of ten I'd want to punch an actress in the mouth for such idiocy.

::)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 11, 2016, 07:07:58 AM
...that scene with the frozen fish people was badass...

You mean Mick Fleetwood in full Antedean mode?
Imagine an Antedean drummer...

Greetings...
Nef

That's right!  I forgot Mick was one of the Antedeans.  Couldn't really recognize him, but it was cool to know it was him.

Don't forget the famous yoga scene....

You know, maybe it's an age thing, but i never found those super tight 80's workout clothing attractive.

It's funny. I never found her attractive until Ronny Cox made her where an actual Starfleet uniform. As I understand it, Marina Sirtis hounded them for a year and a half to get out of the catsuits and be an actual respectable character instead of a tart. Nine times out of ten I'd want to punch an actress in the mouth for such idiocy, but in this instance the girl was spot on. It was a huge improvement.

Marina Sirtis had a full figure, but those skintight things she was in first season were totally unforgiving, and IMO totally unflattering for most.  She did look much better in a regulation uniform.  Even her cosmic cheerleader outfit was better than the catsuits.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 11, 2016, 01:04:12 PM
Never found Marina good looking but I definitely thought she looked better in her proper Starfleet uniform.



+ I was never crazy about 7 of 9 either. Nothing against Jeri Ryan of course but 7 of 9 was blatantly added to the cast for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 11, 2016, 01:56:11 PM
I've seen Jeri Ryan in other tv shows and she's a very good actress.  It just so happens that her body had made many nerds gasp in public.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 11, 2016, 02:35:15 PM
:dunno: I don't go gaga over big tits and blonde hair.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 11, 2016, 03:13:04 PM
It's more than that. Her eyes are amazing and I love her legs. Plus she can act.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 11, 2016, 03:19:50 PM
Yes she has a nice face but i'm just not into the typical blonde bimbo stereotype.

I never ever saw the appeal in Pam Anderson either.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 11, 2016, 03:36:19 PM
" Conspiracy ".

That scene where Remmick's head explodes, his chest opens up and you just see a side angle of his decaying corpse...

:lol No wonder I never got to see that scene un-edited on tv.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 11, 2016, 03:42:57 PM
Jeri Ryan was a real pretty gal outside of the short hair and heels. In the Seven getup she never did anything for me. I'd like to see what the girl looks like just shopping at Target or something. Probably pretty remarkable. She also has that sort of personality that commands the attention of everybody in the universe.

And Pamela Anderson is two very different people. The latter, more popular one is pretty ghastly, IMO. The original was a damn fine piece of work.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 11, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
" The Neutral Zone "

Starring Marc Alamo as not Gul Dukat or Gul whoever else he played.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 11, 2016, 05:42:48 PM
:rollin

That episode when Data is trying to train Spot.

Geordi : " How's the training going, Data ? "

Data : (nodding) " I have......not been....entirely successful..."


:lol his acting here is amazing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 11, 2016, 05:55:11 PM
When he suggested a using a phaser it really cracked me up something fierce. That would actually be the perfect tool.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 11, 2016, 06:56:13 PM
I posted this for all my female friends on Facebook.

(https://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/kingshmegland/FB_IMG_1468284856872_zpszdqwzooi.jpg) (https://s583.photobucket.com/user/kingshmegland/media/FB_IMG_1468284856872_zpszdqwzooi.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 11, 2016, 06:58:11 PM
Just change Trek to Track and you got it.

"Mom, how many times do I have to tell you? A track is what the train goes on, a trek is what the Enterprise goes on!"



Speaking of Star Trek, have you guys seen Free Enterprise? Not a high budget movie by any means, but totally worth it for any ST or sci-fi fan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 11, 2016, 07:08:07 PM
Sure did. Even the wife loved it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 11, 2016, 07:10:04 PM
Sure did. Even the wife loved it.

Well then dude, you're living the dream. How cool it must be to enjoy THAT much of a niche movie with your loved one. God damn.




....you guys looking for a third?  :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 11, 2016, 07:12:18 PM
 :lol

It's taken me a decade plus to get her to love sci fi and prog and for me to put the toilet paper from the top down and to put down the toilet seat when I'm done.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 11, 2016, 07:55:30 PM
So basically you've ruined each other?


And I want that shirt, to wear to cons. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on July 13, 2016, 11:19:44 PM
Quoting a post from George Takei's facebook page...

"Good morning from Montana! I’ve been here relaxing on vacation, but have noticed that many of you have been following the “gay Sulu” story and wanted to know why I’m being such a sourpuss. I’m writing to set the record “straight,” if you will.
When the news first broke, I gave a lengthy telephone interview, but the headlines have been misleading. Apparently, controversy makes for better sales! Let me be clear: I am not disappointed that there is a gay character in Star Trek. On the contrary, as I made clear, I am delighted that the Star Trek franchise has addressed this issue, which is truly one of diversity. It is thrilling to know that future generations will not see LGBTs go wholly unrepresented in the Trek universe.
On the specific question of Sulu being gay, when I was first approached with the concept, I responded that I hoped instead that Gene Roddenberry’s original characters and their backgrounds would be respected. How exciting it would be instead if a new hero might be created, whose story could be fleshed out from scratch, rather than reinvented. To me, this would have been even more impactful. While I understand that we are in an alternate timeline with the new Trek movies, for me it seemed less than necessary to tinker with an existing character in order to fulfill Gene’s hope of a truly diverse Trek universe. And while I am flattered that the character of Sulu apparently was selected as an homage to me, this was never about me or what I wanted. It was about being true to Gene’s vision and storytelling.
Gene had wanted long ago to include LGBT characters, and we spoke personally and specifically about the lack of them. Gene understandably felt constrained by the sensitivities of the time. Some fifty years ago, even TV’s first interracial kiss, between Kirk and Uhura, caused our ratings to plummet as the show was censored across much of the South for that scene. Gene made a conscious decision to make the main characters heterosexual, and worked within those parameters to tell incredible stories that still challenged many cultural values of the time. So the lack of gay characters was not some oversight by him; it was a conscious decision with which he grappled. I loved Gene as a friend, and I respected his decision and the context under which he created these stories. On this 50th year anniversary of Star Trek, my hope was to honor his foresight and bravery, as well as his ability to create discussion and diversity despite these constraints.
But Star Trek has always pushed the boundaries and opened new opportunities for actors, including myself. I am eternally grateful to have been part of this incredible and continuing family. I wish John Cho well in the role I once played, and congratulate Simon Pegg on his daring and groundbreaking storytelling. While I would have gone with the development of a new character in this instance, I do fully understand and appreciate what they are doing—as ever, boldly going where no one has gone before. Star Trek will live long and prosper."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 14, 2016, 12:00:27 AM
Well put by George Takei. That's how I feel about the situation.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 14, 2016, 01:32:48 AM
I also think that making a brand new gay character would have felt like pandering. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 14, 2016, 01:36:38 AM
I also think that making a brand new gay character would have felt like pandering.

It's all pandering. Very few characters' sexuality mattered in the slightest bit. Especially side characters. Is Chekov gay? Is Harry Kim bisexual? Is Malcom Reed gender fluid? Who cares? It never mattered.

Just like it won't matter that Sulu is gay. It's getting way more attention than the movie will give it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 14, 2016, 01:40:47 AM
Is Chekov gay?
No.

Is Harry Kim bisexual?
Unlikely.

Is Malcom Reed gender fluid?
Highly likely.

I also think that making a brand new gay character would have felt like pandering. 

Much less so than their current "Takei is gay, therefore let's just make Sulu gay three movies into the reboot".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on July 14, 2016, 03:13:46 AM

Is Malcom Reed gender fluid?
Highly likely.



Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with this one whole heartedly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 14, 2016, 11:52:55 PM
The Deadly Years - Bravo  :lol fuckin bravo :clap:
I think based on some opinions I've read here about some TOS episodes that this episode is probably not a particularly popular one, but I just gotta say I enjoyed it a lot.
Old Kirk FTW! Shatner took the phrase "over the top" to another level, he broke the top heh, Dr. McCoy managed to get even more cranky and generally I loved how their depiction of old age relies heavily on yelling and crankiness.
This episode the first time someone from outside the crew takes over command of the ship without being a total douchebag, I frankly felt for the guy!
When the aging process reverse and Kirk becomes young again then runs to the bridge to manage the Romulan attack, it was a rare instance when I saw Kirk being in command as justified, I'm usually baffled at how much better Spock is at almost everything that qualifies him for the position but this time Kirk really displayed that essential leadership quality, yes he needs a shit ton of consul to perform his job but he's the man to do it.
Bottle episode inside the Enterprise and very enjoyable acting, great episode in my book.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 15, 2016, 08:51:56 AM
It always bugged me that they just happened to have taken aboard a geriatric specialist, and she just happened to be one of Kirk's old girlfriends. Other than that I've got no problem with it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 15, 2016, 04:23:47 PM
Haha that kinda thing happens all too often though, that actress was especially awful heh
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 15, 2016, 04:25:17 PM
It always bugged me that they just happened to have taken aboard a geriatric specialist, and she just happened to be one of Kirk's old girlfriends. Other than that I've got no problem with it.

Statistically, wouldn't it have been far more unlikely to just happen to have any female crew members that Kirk didn't bang?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 15, 2016, 08:16:30 PM
Looks like we're getting a Star Trek 4 (no clue about Chekov) and Kirk's dad is coming back.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on July 15, 2016, 08:53:26 PM
I have a tribble. She sits on my desk and guards my Post Its. 

I need to make a sign that says "DO NOT FEED"

 :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13612328_10154280684458427_3919420924058328805_n.jpg?oh=a1800b0b2509457b655461fc3519cbb4&oe=57F5522C)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 16, 2016, 11:06:20 AM
Looks like we're getting a Star Trek 4 (no clue about Chekov) and Kirk's dad is coming back.
Considering how the movies work, he probably put his katra into one of the bridge crew without telling anybody.

I figure the best case scenario is they're making the 4th and final movie and they're restoring the original timeline.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 16, 2016, 01:22:53 PM
Anyone else noticed that in TNG - whenever someone from Starfleet arrives to board the Enterprise D - It's *always* an Excelsior class ship.

Probably to save on making new models.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 16, 2016, 01:34:35 PM
Anyone else noticed that in TNG - whenever someone from Starfleet arrives to board the Enterprise D - It's *always* an Excelsior class ship.

Probably to save on making new models.

Yea. As much as I prefer them using models to pure CG, one draw back was the lack of diversity and potential designs.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 16, 2016, 02:36:25 PM
Haven't done this in a while. Rank the Enterprises based solely on aesthetic value.

NOT on whether it's form matches it's function.



Choices :

1. TOS Enterprise 1701

2. TMP - TUC Enterprise 1701 / A

3. Generations Enterprise 1701 B

4. "Yesterday's Enterprise" 1701 C

5. The Next Generation 1701 D

6. First Contact / Insurrection / Nemesis 1701 E

7. Kelvin Timeline Uss Enterprise 2009 / Into Darkness / Beyond

8. Star Trek Enterprise NX-01 / Refit if you like.


I think my favourite design and always will be is the Motion Picture to Undiscovered Country Enterprise. Just sleek and the proportions are all perfect.

My least favourite is probably the Enterprise C design or Enterprise B. I actually really like the Kelvin Timeline design. Yes it's a wee bit bulbous and the proportions are a bit weird but I like it.

It's almost like a cross between the TOS and TMP designs.

NX01 Design is pretty cool too for a pre-TOS design.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 17, 2016, 12:31:54 PM
" Devil's Due ".

I love this episode. You know that she can't really be the actual Devil and it's fun watching the crew of Enterprise work out how she does it, steal it and use it against her.

:D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 17, 2016, 01:11:11 PM
I just liked Data as the judge.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 17, 2016, 01:11:28 PM
I do not doubt it
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 17, 2016, 02:25:13 PM
Picard : Geordi, Leah Brahms is coming aboard.

Geordi....Ok Captain...

Later that day...


Geordi : Computer - delete all traces of Geordi Brahms Holodeck Program ffs :dangerwillrobinson:


Still have no idea why he didn't immediately do this :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on July 17, 2016, 02:41:36 PM
Actually....if you think about it, I don't think he could have destroyed the program without destroying the research.   That would be a pretty good reason not to delete it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 17, 2016, 02:44:53 PM
Picard : Geordi, Leah Brahms is coming aboard.

Geordi....Ok Captain...

Later that day...


Geordi : Computer - delete all traces of Geordi Brahms Holodeck Program ffs :dangerwillrobinson:


Still have no idea why he didn't immediately do this :lol

I guess he didn't see it coming.








Get it? Cause he's blind.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 17, 2016, 02:55:49 PM
Adami you baktag!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 17, 2016, 03:17:42 PM
Actually....if you think about it, I don't think he could have destroyed the program without destroying the research.   That would be a pretty good reason not to delete it.

He could have deleted the Leah Brahms character. Or just restored her to Factory Settings :lol

Or he could have hidden it away and put a password on it. He's Geordi. he left it out in the open.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 17, 2016, 03:39:23 PM
" Conundrum ".

 :o Oh we've all lost our memories. We all appear to be here though. Data, Riker, Troi, Commaner McDuff.

:lol

That was a good camera reveal though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 17, 2016, 04:51:44 PM
" Conundrum ".

 :o Oh we've all lost our memories. We all appear to be here though. Data, Riker, Troi, Commaner McDuff.

:lol

That was a good camera reveal though.

Would have been cool to have that as the first episode of a season. Like the 2nd season so we could be introduced to Polaski the same way. Then it's even more of a riddle.

Like, "Hey, here's three random cast members you've never seen. Two of them are real....figure it out!"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on July 18, 2016, 04:49:09 AM
Is Malcom Reed gender fluid?
Highly likely.

He's into pineapple cake, phaser rifles, and T'Pol's bum. :biggrin:

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 18, 2016, 09:47:07 AM
" Conundrum ".

 :o Oh we've all lost our memories. We all appear to be here though. Data, Riker, Troi, Commaner McDuff.

 :lol

That was a good camera reveal though.
That was a good premise for a show. I always associate it with Clues, which I also thought was a good episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 18, 2016, 11:20:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/g47xkJ0.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 18, 2016, 01:48:09 PM
" Conundrum ".

 :o Oh we've all lost our memories. We all appear to be here though. Data, Riker, Troi, Commaner McDuff.

 :lol

That was a good camera reveal though.
That was a good premise for a show. I always associate it with Clues, which I also thought was a good episode.

Clues was also good but I thought Conundrum was better overall.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 18, 2016, 02:15:01 PM
When I saw The Wrath of Khan 30 years ago - the things that stuck in my mind most were

The Kobayashi Maru
 The Ceti Eels
  The line " I'll chase him round the moons of Nibia, Round the Antares Malestrom and round Perdition's flames before I give him up ! " **
   Spocks' Death. I remember in the funeral scene - mum said " it's Spock - he'll be back ". :D
   




** A great line although i'd not use the word "round" three times.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 18, 2016, 06:12:41 PM
" Message In A Bottle "

:lol What is this episode ? It's more like Red Dwarf than Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 18, 2016, 06:23:40 PM
" Message In A Bottle "

:lol What is this episode ? It's more like Red Dwarf than Star Trek.

Nothing says quality Trek like Andy Dick as a god damn doctor.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 18, 2016, 06:56:41 PM
" Message In A Bottle "

 :lol What is this episode ? It's more like Red Dwarf than Star Trek.

Nothing says quality Trek like Andy Dick as a god damn doctor.
And it's a damn shame, as it's a great idea for an episode. I coincidentally just watched it yesterday. Their banter was dreadful, but the doctor dealing with the Romulans was pretty good. They should have done it with Picardo as a second, unevolved EMH with that grouchy demeanor. Also, Seven electrocuting the enraged Hirogin guy via the radio was one of the show's funniest bits. The dude's screams really sold it nicely.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 18, 2016, 08:39:48 PM
I love that episode. About the only time I've ever liked Andy Dick too. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PetFish on July 19, 2016, 12:00:55 AM
The TNG episode with that video game that brainwashes the crew reminds me of Pokemon Go.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 19, 2016, 06:59:58 AM
Star Trek and the social commentary.  Video games are bad, addicting, bad, and can be very bad.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 19, 2016, 07:02:08 AM
I thought the lesson of that episode was that Wesley is a total buzzkill.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 19, 2016, 10:46:52 AM
That, too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 21, 2016, 02:00:02 PM
" Lessons "

The one wth new crew-member Daren ( female ) who Picard gets a crush on.

The scene where Picard is playing the flute - I could be mistaken but it looks *so* much like they're not even Patrick Stewart's hands holding the flute.

It *would* make it more believable having a real person doing the fingering and not Pat Stewart just miming anything.

But it looks so un-natural :P *if* that's what is going on.

Also - Frakes surprised acting in this episode is GREAT.

All the main cast are good actors but I think Pat Stewart, Jonathan Frakes and LeVar Burton are the top 3 with Spiner coming in 4th when he plays Data. Not Soong or Lore.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 21, 2016, 02:37:15 PM
All the main cast are good actors but I think Pat Stewart, Jonathan Frakes and LeVar Burton are the top 3 with Spiner coming in 4th when he plays Data. Not Soong or Lore.
Star Trek acting is a peculiar thing. These people essentially create their characters so it's pretty hard for them to be bad at it. You don't think of Wil Wheaton as a bad actor. You think of Wesley Crusher as an annoying character. Same thing with Sirtis and Troi. I really only judge their acting skills by how they play other characters. Dorn is great as Worf, but put him in another role and he's just awful. That applies to most of the DS9 cast. That's the biggest reason the mirror universe episodes were so bad. I think Spiner as Data is a wonderful character, but as an actor I really can't stand the guy, and that's because he played so many non-Data characters and they were all pretty bad. Most of the TNG cast got a break in that regard. When was Levar Burton not Geordi?

It's also interesting to see the actors IRL as compared to their characters. A lot of them seem to be playing themselves. Is Frakes much different than Riker? A few of them couldn't be any more different, which gives them good acting points. Rene Aberjewhathever is nothing like Odo, and it's probably why he had a career before ST. I gained some appreciate for Jolene Blalock after seeing her on a talk show. I never thought she was a bad actress playing T'Pol, or a couple of other characters, but seeing who she really is actually made it pretty impressive.

I think the reboot actors have a much tougher job, and they have mostly done very well. It's easy for Shatner and Nimoy to play Kirk and Spock. It's a bitch for somebody else to come along and do it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 21, 2016, 02:38:30 PM
" The Chase "

That old guy who invites himself on board - and basically says Picard has to leave the Enterprise for a year - and gets mad when he doesn't ...

:lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 21, 2016, 02:40:40 PM

I think the reboot actors have a much tougher job, and they have mostly done very well. It's easy for Shatner and Nimoy to play Kirk and Spock. It's a bitch for somebody else to come along and do it.

For the most part they've done the best thing.

Make it your own but sprinkle it with the essence of the original character.

The worst thing would be for Pine to act exactly like Shatner with his dramatic pauses and deep booming voice.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 21, 2016, 03:06:55 PM
I always think it's funny when the Enterprise turns up at a planet in Federation space and Klingons or Ferengi turn up and basically say

" :angry: WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE ? "

:rollin Obviously you're in the wrong place and attacking the Enterprise in Federation space doesn't look good does it...




Speaking of Ferengi - they must be so fun to write for. They're just SO frustrating and annoying.

Like that episode with The Stargazer and they basically PRETEND to be giving the ship to Picard for no profit. Then when it's CLEAR they're being violent to Picard

they go " HOW DARE YOU !! WE OFFER YOU A GIFT FOR NO PROFIT AND YOU ACCUSE US OF TREACHERY ?? :angry: "

They're just so annoying :rollin


And any new tech the Federation are using - the Ferengi or Klingons or Cardassians always think it's a new Federation doomsday device specifically designed to wipe them out :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 21, 2016, 03:21:09 PM
" The Chase "

That old guy who invites himself on board - and basically says Picard has to leave the Enterprise for a year - and gets mad when he doesn't ...

 :lol
That guy was a dick, but I liked the episode. And the Klingon was a real hoot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 21, 2016, 03:23:24 PM
" Second Chances "

Tom Riker has been alone for 8 years and conveniently his hair and beard are identical to Will Riker.


They could have at least TRIED to make them look different :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 21, 2016, 03:45:13 PM
" The Chase "

That old guy who invites himself on board - and basically says Picard has to leave the Enterprise for a year - and gets mad when he doesn't ...

 :lol
That guy was a dick, but I liked the episode. And the Klingon was a real hoot.


Yes that scene where he wants to arm wrestle Data and Data beats him *instantly* and goes right back to his work :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 21, 2016, 03:51:27 PM
He also expressed frustration that the non-Female Changeling Salome Jens was already dead as he wanted to kill her for wasting his time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 21, 2016, 03:54:26 PM
He also expressed frustration that the non-Female Changeling Salome Jens was already dead as he wanted to kill her for wasting his time.

His insult of choice was " You treacherous Toh Pah ! "

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 21, 2016, 04:18:32 PM
" Second Chances "

Tom Riker has been alone for 8 years and conveniently his hair and beard are identical to Will Riker.


They could have at least TRIED to make them look different :biggrin:

They did.  Thomas Riker had a different colored shirt.  :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 21, 2016, 04:20:57 PM
" Second Chances "

Tom Riker has been alone for 8 years and conveniently his hair and beard are identical to Will Riker.


They could have at least TRIED to make them look different :biggrin:

They did.  Thomas Riker had a different colored shirt.  :P


That was most impressive. Really impressive CGI there.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 22, 2016, 12:15:37 PM
Benedict Cumberbatch is in Star Trek into Darkness and The Desolation of Smaug and Doctor Strange.

Martin Freeman is in Captain America Civil War and The Hobbit Trilogy.

Now Martin Freeman needs to be in a Star trek movie :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 22, 2016, 03:22:35 PM
Steven Weintraub Verified account
‏@colliderfrosty

If you're looking forward to the new STAR TREK TV series you'll be happy tomorrow. They announce title and details. #sdcc


:D :) :D

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 22, 2016, 03:45:29 PM
Crossing my fingers for Star Trek Space Dick.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 22, 2016, 03:48:34 PM
Hoping info is out when I get up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 22, 2016, 09:24:30 PM
I was just wondering again the other day if Star Trek was going to be the official title. Looks like it's not. Can't wait to finally hear the details!

Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 22, 2016, 09:27:22 PM
Crossing my fingers for Star Trek Space Dick.

Planet killer is so horney.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: JayOctavarium on July 23, 2016, 12:17:49 AM
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Please be post-Nemesis
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 23, 2016, 12:19:35 AM
Crossing my fingers for Star Trek Space Dick.

Planet killer is so horney.

I just realized that Kirk is the ultimate space dick, given his sexual goings on. So Star Trek 4 was the quintessential space dick trying to stop a literal space dick by giving it something with the word hump in the name.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 23, 2016, 11:55:57 AM
Apparently the TNG crew finished filming " All Good Things " and two days later they began filming on " Star Trek Generations ".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 23, 2016, 12:23:00 PM
" Gambit I,II "

Robin Curtis ( Saavik ) looks totally different as a Romulan ( albeit a Vulcan posing as a Romulan )...

I love how Picard & Riker pretend to hate each other whilst on board Boran's ship.

I love stories like this. Stupid aliens who don't know they're being had the entire time - like " Samaritan Snare " also with those stupid, stupid Pakleds.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 23, 2016, 04:10:32 PM
STAR TREK DISCOVERY

Uss Discovery. NCC 1031.


And...


STAR TREK STD :rollin



Oh Well.



That's interesting. The Uss Discovery is basically the Phase II Enterprise that never was.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 23, 2016, 04:17:14 PM
Can you provide a links to some more info? I haven't seen anything.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 23, 2016, 04:19:27 PM
https://twitter.com/startrekcbs

^ Brand New Twitter Account with trailer












(https://losttrek.weebly.com/uploads/3/0/7/1/30713909/9793024_orig.jpg)



^^^ Original design for Star Trek Phase II / The Motion Picture Enterprise.

Could be set after 5 year mission / Pre TMP
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 23, 2016, 04:31:02 PM
Interesting design. The real one, not the one posted above.

Cool name too. Any news on cast or timeline?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 23, 2016, 04:32:11 PM
Nothing yet.




https://trekcore.com/blog/2016/07/new-star-trek-discovery-show-launches-january-2017/
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 23, 2016, 08:32:09 PM
So it will be set in the prime timeline, and it won't be episodic in nature.

(https://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ec/ec90782245ef667a7d90ffe18735806adf64925cf735e11fa803eacd104c5556.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 23, 2016, 10:22:58 PM
I instantly recognized the scrapped Phase 2 design. I've always found it super fugly, and still do here. So angular.
The name/style of the ship and the registry number would suggest some time between Enterprise and TOS to me, which I'm not keen on for the same reasons as Enterprise. It might be early Federation, Romulan war era? Maybe that's all completely off base, but the style of the ship doesn't fit with the established canon for TNG/DS9/VOY era ships at all.

Unfortunate acronym aside, I like the name of the show/ship. Straightforward and to the point.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 24, 2016, 01:30:00 PM
Q  : " Is the design of the Discovery, the CG and the titles, music all final ? "

A : " NO! We literally threw that together in 3 weeks just for something to show the fans. We'll be working on the design up until the end "


So there you go.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 24, 2016, 01:36:07 PM
The design was fine. Obviously the graphics were raw, but such is life.

My only gripe is that the design looks very very obviously old school. Which means the show will likely be set around TOS timeline, which I'm getting bored with. Like Blob, I was hoping for post-Nemesis, and the ship design doesn't suggest that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 24, 2016, 01:37:35 PM
They also suggested that legally they might have problems with the design ( no permission from McQuarrie ? )

It might get a bit rounded out towards the final design.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 24, 2016, 02:08:46 PM
So I'm not a starship geek like some people here ((looks towards Australia)). I've watched TWok-TVH while working around the house and I don't get the Enterprise-A. Isn't it just the same refitted Constitution class they've had since TMP? Did they just take a different ship and rename/number it? For some reason I always thought it was a completely different ship, or at the least refitted, but it didn't seem any different.

Also, the Discovery is a pretty goofy looking ship. The thing that irks me is that it doesn't seem to follow any evolutionary design with other starships. Something that struck me the other day is that the D is an oddball in that regard. It's like all starships have the same basic design features, until the D comes along, and then the E goes back to looking like they're supposed to. I can see how the Discovery could be an evolutionary step foward from the NX-01, the basic shape isn't all that different when seen from above/below, but it's the oppose direction to get to the NCC1701 Enterprise.

Lastly, I always enjoyed Gambit. Anytime Data gets a command it's always cool. And wasn't Curtis a Romulan playing a Vulkan playing a Romulan?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 24, 2016, 02:12:51 PM
Data should theoretically be a good captain as he could just mimic Picard and have a subroutine called WWPD ?

He could relate circumstances to previous circumstances and remember what Picard did in those moments.

Plus he could think faster than Picard and probably has studied countless ships logs from countless other ships.




Also Guinan was the actual ship's counsellor . Troi just spouted cliches and basically said " shit happens, it'll probably get better. CHOCLIT NAO "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 24, 2016, 02:21:30 PM
So I'm not a starship geek like some people here ((looks towards Australia)). I've watched TWok-TVH while working around the house and I don't get the Enterprise-A. Isn't it just the same refitted Constitution class they've had since TMP? Did they just take a different ship and rename/number it? For some reason I always thought it was a completely different ship, or at the least refitted, but it didn't seem any different.

Also, the Discovery is a pretty goofy looking ship. The thing that irks me is that it doesn't seem to follow any evolutionary design with other starships. Something that struck me the other day is that the D is an oddball in that regard. It's like all starships have the same basic design features, until the D comes along, and then the E goes back to looking like they're supposed to. I can see how the Discovery could be an evolutionary step foward from the NX-01, the basic shape isn't all that different when seen from above/below, but it's the oppose direction to get to the NCC1701 Enterprise.

No clue about the Enterprise A, never paid much attention. But there have been quite a number of Starfleet designs.

(https://www.geocities.ws/sfdefense/encyclopedia/ships/chart.jpg)

There really is no basic design outside of the fact that, I assume due to budget reasons, are usually exposed to the same 2-4 models in various shows.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 24, 2016, 03:22:30 PM
Next Gen definitely gets better in series 2.

Series 1 has a lot of lofty dialogue that feels really out of place.

Thankfully Series 2 onwards does away with it for the most part.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 24, 2016, 03:41:02 PM
" The Immunity Syndrome "

During the part when the bridge crew all double over with the feedback from the probe - Chekov looks like he has a bright ring on his head.

A toupee ?



Also the episode reminds me a bit of " Where Silence Has Lease ".




EDIT : Haha.. McCoy just said " Shut Up Spock , we're trying to rescue you. "

Reminded me of Into Darkness when he pretty much says the same thing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 24, 2016, 04:29:48 PM
Next Gen definitely gets better in series 2.

Series 1 has a lot of lofty dialogue that feels really out of place.

Thankfully Series 2 onwards does away with it for the most part.

I've never thought about that before, but you're right.  Remember though that other than TOS, TNG was all we had.  It was the first and only direct successor to TOS at the time and as such, Roddenberry probably felt the need to emphasize his personal vision of the future, and make sure we all understood that this is the same Star Trek as before, even if it's different.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 24, 2016, 04:33:09 PM
It's really odd at times.

They'll be on the bridge and suddenly Wes will chuck out a vignette of insight about the human condition.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 24, 2016, 04:37:57 PM
The Immunity Syndrome is during the fairly short window where WK didn't wear a wig or a rug. Koenig famously wore the Monkey's wig early on until his hair grew out, and then wore a toupee towards the end of the series when his hair was thinning.

And I'm a big fan of TIS. Great Spock episode. When they first raised the idea of using a shuttlecraft, Kirk was 100% opposed. "There's no fucking way I"m letting somebody go out there." Then Spock and McCoy started arguing about which one should do it and Kirk had up changed his mind. Seemed like they really played him.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 24, 2016, 04:43:56 PM
Whenever see you a shuttle enter the hangar - it's nearly half the height of the hangar doors. Which means a person would almost be as tall as the saucer section.

But yeah it was the 60s. They didn't care about those details.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 24, 2016, 11:40:40 PM
Q  : " Is the design of the Discovery, the CG and the titles, music all final ? "

A : " NO! We literally threw that together in 3 weeks just for something to show the fans. We'll be working on the design up until the end "


So there you go.

They obviously needed something to show at SDCC for the name reveal. Others have pointed out that they didn't put the dots in U.S.S, and the font is more like the Kelvin timeline ships than the heavier font of the prime universe, so I expect some minor details to change at least. I wouldn't have expected them to reveal a design if it was still subject to major changes, but I'd be happy to see it changed more drastically.

Next Gen definitely gets better in series 2.

Series 1 has a lot of lofty dialogue that feels really out of place.

Thankfully Series 2 onwards does away with it for the most part.

I recall S2 being overall as bad or even worse than S1 (Wesley episodes aside). Once they got past the writer's strike in S3 is when it began to improve imo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 27, 2016, 12:21:01 AM
This might end up being a long messy post and that's my fault.
I had a full on Star Trek week last week and as much as I enjoy sharing my take and reading everybody's insight, I'm an incredibly lazy typer, which makes it worse for me since the amount of episodes I watched and wanna talk about accumulates and also I forgot some observations here and there.
So since I've last posted I've watched Obsession, Wolf in the Fold, The Trouble with Tribbles, The Gamesters of Triskelion, A Piece of the Action, Star Trek 2009, ST Into Darkness, and The Immunity Syndrome.
I haven't intended to see the movies anytime soon, I'll explain later.

Obsession, I liked it okay, basically for the scenes where Spock and McCoy ganged up on Kirk and questioned his mental state.

Wolf in the Fold, pretty boring with some funny highlights, not even a good Scotty episode even though he has a central role in it. It's one of these ST instances where I felt the premise couldn't carry the entire 50 minutes, "women are more easily and more deeply terrified, generating more sheer horror than the male of the species." Spock, can't rely on a Vulcan to be PC hehe

The Trouble with Tribbles, I must have rewinded the scene with Kirk chest deep in tribbles about 4 times, I laughed so hard, especially his exchange with McCoy where at one point he was too fed up to respond to McCoy with words and just gave him a "Don't" look heh, he kept getting hit in the back of the head by tribbles as he carried on the discussion :lol,  just a truly fun episode beginning to end.
They seem to keep taking Chekov's Russian nationalism up in tune, I wrote about this in previous posts and I still find it interesting.
Klingons just don't have any redeeming qualities as yet, they're consistent douchebags.

The Gamesters of Triskelion, eh.. decent concept but something was missing, perhaps the awful guest stars broke this episode for me.

A Piece of the Action, yeah baby, lil something for me here, I'm a big fan of 20's-40's gangster atmosphere, pretty funny and entertaining episode and a rather interesting concept with the whole culture being based around one book, I'm not sure if they meant to have it stand for religions or not but so far Star Trek has never been one for symbolism, if there's a point Kirk just out and says it in a speech at one point or another, but it's possible.

I was at Costco yesterday with my wife and she saw the trailer for Beyond on a TV there and:
Her: I'm really up for some science fiction, wanna go see that?
Me: As far as I know this is the third Star Trek movie of this franchise, I don't know anything about it.
Her: Look it up.
Me: I really don't want to since I'm trying to go in production order and I've got several seasons and movies of different incarnations of Star Trek to go through before I can see these.
Her: Are these reboots?
Me: I would assume so since I've just seen Spock in that trailer.
She went on to sell me on checking them out anyway, they had the first two movies on BluRay for 16$ so we got them and saw them back-to-back the same night.

Star Trek 2009, I started off prejudiced as soon as I saw Abrams in the beginning of the movie, I had vowed years ago to never watch anything by any dimwit that was involved in Lost, I have made a point out of remembering the creators names as to not ever see shit from them again. But there we were, I thought the mofo snuck up on me and boy has he won me back.
It would be difficult for me to understand how this movie isn't every fan's wet dreams, I found it amazing and I've only been a fan for a year or so and have only been watching TOS. It caters to old fans deliciously while still making new fans and being relevant to people who were never fans of Star Trek, like my wife. Excellent movie and I would have said the best movie I've seen this year except I watched Into Darkness right after and loved it even more.
Let me dwell a bit on why I loved these movies:
- Most of the cast seem to have been chosen because they resemble TOS cast and they have been clearly instructed to act like TOS cast, there was little to no "reinventing" shit,  Zachary Quinto and Karl Urban were playing Leonard Nimoy and DeForest Kelley, respectively, the script didn't tell them anything, the portrayals of TOS actors seemed to have been their only guide and they somehow pulled it off without looking like hacks or stupid imitations, they were simply great. I could say the same about Chris Pine, who dialed down the "Shat" a bit but kept the Kirk's aura intact, about John Cho for Sulu and Anton Yelchin for Chekov.
Simon Pegg's Scotty and Zoe Saldana's Uhura were a tad different but not in a bad way, Pegg's Scotty is a bit too heavy on the comedy side than James Doohan and Saldana's Uhura was a bit too nosy, judgmental and involved compared to Nichelle Nichols, I'm not too fond of these changes but I don't mind them.
- I don't view this as a reboot, which is great. I find it to be a great and suitable direct continuation from TOS, aside from having Leonard Nimoy there, the story itself and the timeline change was just a great Star Trek style way to make these movies and still make them feel connected to the world they once started off in.
- All the catchphrases and subtle references were very endearing and directed at old fans, I mean I'm a new fan and I loved it.
- The action and the special effects were superb.
Khan, now if you guys remember I didn't like Space Seed and I know he returns for the 1982 movie but I haven't seen that yet so my take was still rather negative about him just from Space Seed. After watching Into Darkness I'm more assured that the only reason I didn't like Space Seed is the horrendous acting from the Khan and McGivers actors, but the plot is probably one of the best for TOS. Benedict Cumberbatch, who I have not seen in any role before but was aware of him, did a splendid job in my opinion, he was terrifying and likable, I dare compare his performance to Heath Ledger's Joker in that aspect.
I was not aware Cumberbatch was playing Khan at all, we were watching his scene in captivity when Kirk asked him who he was, "A remnant of a time long past. Genetically engineered to be superior so as to lead others to peace in a world at war." and I sat up and told my wife "Holy shit he's Khan!!!", poor lady was startled haha.
I just read on Wikipedia that there were some ciritism over Cumberbatch playing Khan, who's of native American origins, they say some said it was white washing which I didn't care for since he did a superb job and also the original Khan actor was Mexican ffs.
Wonderful movies, I can't wait to see the third one.
Gun to my head to say something I didn't like about the movies, I'd say the Spock/Uhura romance, just felt unnecessary, cheesy, forced and nonsensical tbh.

The Immunity Syndrome, back to TOS from the movies, good episode, first time seeing Kirk in an almost surrendering attitude, it was almost like he had felt his demise along with the crew was certain and one point in this episode, he never really gotten to that point, it almost looked like he was at peace with it too!
My wife doesn't watch TOS with me but she walked in near the end of the episode and watched a bit as she was warmed up to the Enterprise crew from watching the movies the night before and funny enough she made the same point I just read from Kotowboy about Spock being left out on a mission to die, Kirk and McCoy being on the bridge struggling for a way to bring him back and McCoy saying "Spock! We're trying to save you, damn it!", my wife asked me if this happens often and I told her honestly I've only seen it on Into Darkness and this episode, just coincidence that I happened to see them around the same time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 27, 2016, 12:46:44 AM
Cumberbatch as Khan was a fucking travesty in every way. Watching Into Darkness before The Wrath of Khan is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 27, 2016, 08:27:31 AM
Cumberbatch as Khan was a fucking travesty in every way. Watching Into Darkness before The Wrath of Khan is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start. :lol
Yeah, pretty much.


The Gamesters of Triskelion, eh.. decent concept but something was missing, perhaps the awful guest stars broke this episode for me.
I liked Gall, but the blond porno chick was pretty terrible.

Pegg's Scotty is a bit too heavy on the comedy side than James Doohan
As the movies went on they turned Doohan into comedic relief. The Abrams films just treat him the same.

The Trouble with Tribbles,
Klingons just don't have any redeeming qualities as yet, they're consistent douchebags.

TTWT was a decent episode, but I always felt it a bit overrated (it's usually ranked in the top 3 or so). Mostly I just always thought that particular Klingon was a bit of a fairy. Of the three starring Klingons of that era, who will all show up later in DS9, Kang and Kor were great, and Koloth was weak.

DS9 will revisit TTWT giving it the Forest Gump treatment and it's a great episode. I actually like their version of it better than the original.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 27, 2016, 02:53:36 PM
Encounter At Farpoint


Q : You will solve the mystery of Farpoint Station.

Picard : Data, scan the station

Data : There is a lifeform trapped under the surface

Q : You win.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 27, 2016, 03:26:56 PM
Code Of Honour.

Wow the cold open to this episode is VERY Original Series.

Right down to the music and the visiting race.



Edit : The music is so bad :lol 

Almost every single line of dialogue has a music cue.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 28, 2016, 01:50:43 AM
Barto and Blob, kinda had a hunch you guys were gonna say that, I didn't intend to watch these movies yet as I detailed in my post, it's the misses heh
I doubt that whoever plays Khan in The Wrath of Khan would impress me more than Cumberbatch but I'm gonna go in with an open mind, but I would ask you; if Into Darkness had been exactly the same only Cumberbatch's character wasn't called Khan and it was just a different character with a similar backstory or even if they made out the person who's been woken up (Cumberbatch) to be someone else from Khan's people, would it have worked better for you? Or was your problem in Cumberbatch himself?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 28, 2016, 02:35:15 AM
Barto and Blob, kinda had a hunch you guys were gonna say that, I didn't intend to watch these movies yet as I detailed in my post, it's the misses heh
I doubt that whoever plays Khan in The Wrath of Khan would impress me more than Cumberbatch but I'm gonna go in with an open mind, but I would ask you; if Into Darkness had been exactly the same only Cumberbatch's character wasn't called Khan and it was just a different character with a similar backstory or even if they made out the person who's been woken up (Cumberbatch) to be someone else from Khan's people, would it have worked better for you? Or was your problem in Cumberbatch himself?


Into Darkness was utter garbage regardless of the inclusion of Khan/Cumberbatch, but it would have been slightly less of a giant slap to the franchise and the fans if they'd at least cast someone who looked and acted anything at all like Khan is supposed to be, instead of some soft spoken pasty British dude. He wasn't right for the part, Khan or not. It was awful casting in an already awful movie.
And that "whoever" is RICARDO FUCKING MONTALBAN! He IS Khan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 28, 2016, 04:53:41 AM
Yup.


The Wrath of Khan > > > > > Into Darkness.

Montalban > > > > > > Cumberbatch




Even though I liked Cumberbatch in the movie - he wasn't playing Khan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 28, 2016, 09:01:04 AM
It certainly would have been a better movie if he'd just stayed plain ole John Harrison rather than secretly being Khan and if they'd ditched the resurrection ending. It still would have been a Star Trek related action flick. And honestly, I thought there was a whole lot more wrong with it than just trying to rip off The Wrath of Khan.

And that "whoever" is RICARDO FUCKING MONTALBAN! He IS Khan.
Yup. And boy is he pissed off.


(https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/38826/881812-khaaaan_.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 28, 2016, 10:26:42 PM
Whoa Blob calm the fuck down dude, can't disagree with you without you going full on youtube-commentator  :eek
Let me reply the way I reply to youtube commentators, with translation for Barto.

Into Darkness was utter garbage

No, it was awesome.
(Chill discussion guy: I liked it a lot and that means something when I'm bias against Abrams, I've truly hated the guy for years. But then again I understand old fans frustrations with changes.)


And that "whoever" is RICARDO FUCKING MONTALBAN! He IS Khan.

He's awful.
(Chill discussion guy: I really didn't like him in Space Seed and I've repeatedly mentioned that's all I've seen of him, I'm pretty sure he'll be better in Wrath of Khan since it's unanimously praised.)

A Private Little War, the interesting thing about this episode is that it highlights the prime directive, possibly the first time it get that's much attention from the main plot as far as I remember, I only heard the term on Into Darkness and I looked it up thinking it's a set of rule and found out it was mainly one rule and that makes it really important so I kinda found it funny how Kirk genuinely does not give a fuck about that rule or just always forgets it and somehow doesn't get punished for it, this episode is not the first time Kirk interferes with problems of a primitive planet, or just a planet that has a way of life he finds to be wrong.
The Tyree/Nona thing was pretty annoying and I thought the concept of agents of two advanced civilization arming and meddling in the affairs of a primitive planet could have been explored so much better, it obviously has Cold War hints. Instead we got way too much focus on Nona and her magic.
7 episodes left in season 2 and then it will be just one season to go, it's gonna be sad when I finish this show but I don't feel like taking another hiatus.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 28, 2016, 11:40:06 PM
Whoa Blob calm the fuck down dude, can't disagree with you without you going full on youtube-commentator  :eek

I'm passionate about my Star Trek. Also I'm an asshole. Also you're too incredibly wrong about this for me to give a more calm response. :lol

Just watch The Wrath of Khan and get back to us. You wouldn't even miss out on anything skipping over The Motion Picture as it's effectively ignored.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on July 29, 2016, 03:22:59 AM
Just found this thread, and I'm to much of a lightweight to read all 90 pages - so forgive me if this has been done before...

What's people's preference of the ST shows so far?  For me...

1. DS9
2. TOS
3. TNG.
4. Enterprise.
5. Voyager.

1 & 2 are so close.  Heart says TOS.  Head says DS9. 
TNG is isolated in 3rd - Not near the quality of the top two, but way above 4 and 5.
4 & 5 are pretty much interchangable - gone with Ent as the better as it doesn't have Neelix!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 29, 2016, 03:41:11 AM
That's a tough one for me, because every Trek series has its own strengths and weaknesses. I know we've done this many times before, but if there's one thing DTF loves, it's arbitrarily ranking things! :lol

Overall, I'd say-

DS9
VOY
TNG
TOS
ENT

DS9 is the most consistently great, and I enjoyed it right from the start, but because of the serialized nature of it, I don't come back to it quite as often for individual episodes. But the payoff to those story arcs was epic.
Voyager is maybe an oddball pick given its inconsistencies, but many of the individual episodes are my favourites, and I just find there's something endearing about it. Once they worked out what worked for them and what didn't (and there were plenty of those), and were able to do more of the science-y CG stuff, I think it delivered many fantastic episodes.
TNG is of course great, but it could be a bit preachy at times, and it got off to a really weak start in the first couple of seasons. Still, it's a classic, and I love that cast and the ship.
TOS is very much a product of its time, but its influence is still felt today, and it established an iconic franchise that has endured for 50 years. When it was good, it was pretty good, and when it was bad, it was hilarious and still highly enjoyable. It was fun and silly.
Enterprise was going through the motions because they had to make another series, and it felt very stale by that point. I thought S3 was really good overall, and is something I will rewatch, but come S4 I felt it just devolved into bad fanwank that was unnecessary and only served to highlight the problems with the entire premise of the show being a prequel.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on July 29, 2016, 04:56:54 AM

TNG is of course great, but it could be a bit preachy at times, and it got off to a really weak start in the first couple of seasons. Still, it's a classic, and I love that cast and the ship.

The first series of TNG is a mixture of hilarious and horrific.   The fact they decided 'The Naked Now' would be a good idea as the second episode - that's an episode where the characters (we've only just meet) act out of character......Then that's followed up by the awful 'Code of Honour'.  Later on we get the "amazing" 'Justice' and 'Angel One'.   These for me are worse than anything from the notoriously bad TOS series 3 (Yup even Spock's Brain).
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 29, 2016, 05:00:08 AM
Yeah, S1/2 of TNG has some major stinkers. Not to mention of course that they ended up having to use so many damn Wesley stories.

I actually don't even mind Spock's Brain. It's silly fun, but it's no sillier than many of the other episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 29, 2016, 07:18:27 AM
What scares me about you Blob is when you talk about these eppisodes, I know them, I just don't know the titles and you rattle them off like it's no big thing.  I know none of the titles of the eppisodes. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 29, 2016, 07:21:37 AM
You can either have a job, or you can have all of the Trek trivia. Not both. We've both made our life choices.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on July 29, 2016, 07:29:25 AM
 :lol

I've seen them all multiple times but still.  Daaaaammmmnnnnn!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on July 29, 2016, 08:01:25 AM
My sister got me this book for Christmas in 1986:

(https://imgur.com/ttvyZzK.png)

The original Star Trek Compendium, before TNG, before there was anything other than TOS and the first couple of movies.  It was revised and updated a few times, but at the time, this was it.  I read that book cover to cover multiple times, so I'm right there when people toss around episode titles or name obscure characters who only showed up in one episode or something.

But I can understand you lesser fans who can't hang with the real fans.  I don't respect you, but I can understand.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 29, 2016, 08:28:54 AM
Whoa Blob calm the fuck down dude, can't disagree with you without you going full on youtube-commentator  :eek
Let me reply the way I reply to youtube commentators, with translation for Barto.

Into Darkness was utter garbage

No, it was awesome.
(Chill discussion guy: I liked it a lot and that means something when I'm bias against Abrams, I've truly hated the guy for years. But then again I understand old fans frustrations with changes.)


And that "whoever" is RICARDO FUCKING MONTALBAN! He IS Khan.

He's awful.
(Chill discussion guy: I really didn't like him in Space Seed and I've repeatedly mentioned that's all I've seen of him, I'm pretty sure he'll be better in Wrath of Khan since it's unanimously praised.)
I was thinking about it and Blob is correct. You probably should just go ahead and what TWoK. It's set about 15 years after TOS, but little has changed so it won't matter much. Honestly, though, considering how highly it's regarded and your dislike of Montalban, you might be sorely disappointed in it. At this point, who knows?


Quote
A Private Little War, the interesting thing about this episode is that it highlights the prime directive, possibly the first time it get that's much attention from the main plot as far as I remember, I only heard the term on Into Darkness and I looked it up thinking it's a set of rule and found out it was mainly one rule and that makes it really important so I kinda found it funny how Kirk genuinely does not give a fuck about that rule or just always forgets it and somehow doesn't get punished for it, this episode is not the first time Kirk interferes with problems of a primitive planet, or just a planet that has a way of life he finds to be wrong.
The Tyree/Nona thing was pretty annoying and I thought the concept of agents of two advanced civilization arming and meddling in the affairs of a primitive planet could have been explored so much better, it obviously has Cold War hints. Instead we got way too much focus on Nona and her magic.
7 episodes left in season 2 and then it will be just one season to go, it's gonna be sad when I finish this show but I don't feel like taking another hiatus.

The prime directive pops up all the time, but it's usually just a quick discussion about why it's alright to interfere anyway.
Return of the Archons (Landru)
Tomorrow is Yesterday
A Taste of Armageddon
The Apple
Friday's Child
A Piece of the Action.

All of them have ties to the prime directive, and in some of them it's a pretty big point. Spock usually refers to the non-interference directive. But yeah, APLW is certainly a rare occasions where they make a really big deal about it. And you've got 3 or 4 coming up ending the second season that demonstrate exactly why it's there or where they're also quite concerned about not violating it.

And if you're concerned about running out of TOS, there's nothing stopping you from starting up TNG and bouncing back and forth. It's a very different show, so it won't cause any problems. I'd make up a list like I did for TOS, but given our different tastes it probably wouldn't be helpful. It's just pretty rough getting through the first season.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 29, 2016, 10:31:00 AM
TNG series 1  is pretty bad. Code of honour is an awful episode.

I don't think S3-7 Picard would let Tasha fight.

The directing is so awkward.

Tasha gets beamed away. Picard turns to look at the camera and says RED ALERT then just stands there

staring down the lens.

It's like a bad TOS episode with the TNG cast with all the same music cues.

It's so weird.

S2 is better and S3 onwards is great.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 29, 2016, 10:34:48 AM
TNG series 1  is pretty bad. Code of honour is an awful episode.

I don't think S3-7 Picard would let Tasha fight.

The directing is so awkward.

Tasha gets beamed away. Picard turns to look at the camera and says RED ALERT then just stands there

staring down the lens.

It's like a bad TOS episode with the TNG cast with all the same music cues.

It's so weird.

S2 is better and S3 onwards is great.

I'm pretty sure a number of S1 scripts were actually originally for that Phase II show of TOS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 29, 2016, 10:39:58 AM
Yes Ilya was originally going to be on phase 2 but she became Troi instead and Ilya was on TMP.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 29, 2016, 10:41:58 AM
I think S5 or so Picard would have just gotten Tasha back and then demanded the vaccine.

He wouldn't have said Ok Tasha you can fight to the death.

It's cool.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 29, 2016, 10:46:13 AM
I think S5 or so Picard would have just gotten Tasha back and then demanded the vaccine.

He wouldn't have said Ok Tasha you can fight to the death.

It's cool.

You never know, he could have secretly been more like the audience.

"Okay Tasha, you can fight to the death....it's cool.........-whispers- please lose please lose"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 29, 2016, 10:48:22 AM
It's weird. I didn't hate Yar.

But after she left - the bridge crew dynamic was a lot better.

Worf was clearly supposed to be security.

Not the pilot. :p
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 29, 2016, 10:50:22 AM
I was going to say that Worf was an awful security guy too though. Then I realized that pretty much every security person in ST is awful.

The one possible exception being Odo. But everyone else was worthless, including all of their personal.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on July 29, 2016, 11:22:41 AM
I'm just going to go ahead and say this now - Worf is my favourite Star Trek character.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 29, 2016, 11:26:10 AM
It is hilarious how he is so often the comic relief and gets shut down do often.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on July 29, 2016, 11:32:58 AM
It is hilarious how he is so often the comic relief and gets shut down do often.

Its the being serious, getting disgruntled then dropping a deadpan comic bomb that makes him the best in my opinion.  "I am not a Merry Man!"
Dorn always sells it perfectly.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 29, 2016, 11:37:41 AM
Worf had some good moments, but a lot of the time I didn't like his character. He was a half-assed Klingon with uptight morals.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 29, 2016, 11:50:10 AM
Yeah, it took a couple of seasons of DS9 for him to really start being a decent Klingon.

And following Kowtow's theme of pointing out peculiarities of episodes.

And using a different line for each sentence.

Picard pacing back and forth, nervous as hell because Riker is participating in Worf's training program was silly. Did he really think that Worf was going to skin him or something? "There are some parts of the Klingon psyche better left unknown." WTF? And you want him as part of your bridge crew?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on July 29, 2016, 12:00:28 PM
Worf had some good moments, but a lot of the time I didn't like his character. He was a half-assed Klingon with uptight morals.

He had some pretty good character development over the shows - I always enjoyed his stuff with the Klingon High Council, getting exiled and his brother stuff.   And the bits with General Martok at the end of DS9 was mostly good stuff.    The stuff with his son Alexander towards the end of TNG was crap though, and while I didn't mind him hooking up with Jadzia (As far as ST romance goes this was one of the best, although thats not saying much) I hated the Ezri crap in the final season.    I think Dorn was great - like Nimoy as Spock, it was a role he was born to play.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 29, 2016, 12:03:36 PM
Worf had some good moments, but a lot of the time I didn't like his character. He was a half-assed Klingon with uptight morals.

He had some pretty good character development over the shows - I always enjoyed his stuff with the Klingon High Council, getting exiled and his brother stuff.   And the bits with General Martok at the end of DS9 was mostly good stuff.    The stuff with his son Alexander towards the end of TNG was crap though, and while I didn't mind him hooking up with Jadzia (As far as ST romance goes this was one of the best, although thats not saying much) I hated the Ezri crap in the final season.    I think Dorn was great - like Nimoy as Spock, it was a role he was born to play.

Yeah, I think Dorn played the role great, there were just some personality traits about him that regularly bothered me, especially as far as his relationships went. I was ok with the Jadzia stuff, but DS9 in general knew how to handle things alright. Even Lwaxana was tolerable in DS9. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 29, 2016, 12:16:58 PM
Sins of the Father really opened everything up for Worf and all of the Klingons. That was a great contribution to the entire franchise. There were a few episodes that really set a tone going forward, and making the Klingons interesting was certainly one of them. It's a shame they never found a way to do that with the Romulans.

And I never had a problem with Dorn as Worf. I do think he was one of the worst actors of the lot, though. As I explained a page or two back, playing a character you create is easy. When you see the various other characters he played over the years, they were all pretty awful. Just like Spiner.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 29, 2016, 12:37:46 PM
Yeah, it took a couple of seasons of DS9 for him to really start being a decent Klingon.

And following Kowtow's theme of pointing out peculiarities of episodes.

And using a different line for each sentence.

Picard pacing back and forth, nervous as hell because Riker is participating in Worf's training program was silly. Did he really think that Worf was going to skin him or something? "There are some parts of the Klingon psyche better left unknown." WTF? And you want him as part of your bridge crew?


Picard is pacing and Troi - like a FUCKING SORCERER - says " You're nervous "...

How did she become a Lieutenant Cmdr. anyway ?

At the slightest suggestion of danger - she's on the floor crying.



Edit : And I never once found Lwaxana annoying. She was supposed to be and Majel played her perfectly.

Troi was not supposed to be annoying but she was.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 29, 2016, 12:38:43 PM
And more importantly, are Betazoid drivers like the Asian drivers of the galaxy?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 29, 2016, 12:41:01 PM
And more importantly, are Betazoid drivers like the Asian drivers of the galaxy?

Imagine Lwaxana trying to pilot the Enterprise.

" now now little one. I am daughter of the fifth house. holder of the sacred chalice..I THINK i can fly a Starship... "
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 29, 2016, 01:03:48 PM
There's generally no swearing on Star Trek but occasionally Picard says Merde :p
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 29, 2016, 03:01:28 PM
The Ferengi are the type of aliens to deliberately board a quarantined starfleet ship - contract a lethal illness and blame the Federation for using it as a new bio weapon against the Ferengi :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 29, 2016, 10:42:09 PM
The Ferengi are the type of aliens to deliberately board a quarantined starfleet ship - contract a lethal illness and blame the Federation for using it as a new bio weapon against the Ferengi :lol

They're space millennials!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 30, 2016, 12:53:54 AM
And if you're concerned about running out of TOS, there's nothing stopping you from starting up TNG and bouncing back and forth. It's a very different show, so it won't cause any problems. I'd make up a list like I did for TOS, but given our different tastes it probably wouldn't be helpful. It's just pretty rough getting through the first season.


I was thinking about jumping to TNG but I wanted to get to it in production order, if you say it doesn't matter then I might actually give it a shot right away.
I actually have your first list for TOS bookmarked (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=38049.msg1832261#msg1832261) and out of curiosity I keep checking back on it to see if the episode I just watched was on it. The list as I understood was made up as a sampler "best of" so I'd see if I'll get interested in Star Trek. Now that I'm totally hooked and intend on watching everything Star Trek ever produced, there's no need for a TNG list or any other since I'll watch all the episodes anyway, thanks though  ;D
Return to Tomorrow, I'm surprised that one didn't show up on yours or Blob's lists, I found it a very engaging and fun watch.
Well scripted, the meeting where Kirk debates the situation with McCoy, Spock, Mulhall and Scotty was pretty great, even with Shatner's over the top performance. Henoch/evil Spock was really cool.
Good plot and decent script, I really liked that episode.
TNG here I come!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 30, 2016, 01:04:21 AM
Return to Tomorrow is a really good episode, it's just not one that usually comes to mind. Seeing Leonard Nimoy playing a different character is definitely the highlight.

Just keep in mind that S1 of TNG is relatively terrible compared to the later seasons. The fact it's one of the very few things we universally agree on in this thread should say it all. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 30, 2016, 03:16:09 PM
And if you're concerned about running out of TOS, there's nothing stopping you from starting up TNG and bouncing back and forth. It's a very different show, so it won't cause any problems. I'd make up a list like I did for TOS, but given our different tastes it probably wouldn't be helpful. It's just pretty rough getting through the first season.


I was thinking about jumping to TNG but I wanted to get to it in production order, if you say it doesn't matter then I might actually give it a shot right away.
I actually have your first list for TOS bookmarked (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=38049.msg1832261#msg1832261) and out of curiosity I keep checking back on it to see if the episode I just watched was on it. The list as I understood was made up as a sampler "best of" so I'd see if I'll get interested in Star Trek. Now that I'm totally hooked and intend on watching everything Star Trek ever produced, there's no need for a TNG list or any other since I'll watch all the episodes anyway, thanks though  ;D
Return to Tomorrow, I'm surprised that one didn't show up on yours or Blob's lists, I found it a very engaging and fun watch.
Well scripted, the meeting where Kirk debates the situation with McCoy, Spock, Mulhall and Scotty was pretty great, even with Shatner's over the top performance. Henoch/evil Spock was really cool.
Good plot and decent script, I really liked that episode.
TNG here I come!
And. . .This is why I won't be making a TNG list.  :lol

That was pretty much why I made the list. There are a lot of episodes and many of them blow. That's even more true of TNG. I generally reckon of every series there are about half that are worth watching and half that aren't. In the case of TOS I picked the half that I would watch. Obviously, that list will be different, but I reckon everybody has about the same ratio of episodes they like to watch to those they skip.

Just keep in mind that you're about 1.8 seasons into the ST world, and there are about 25 left to go, and even towards the end there's very strong stuff.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 30, 2016, 04:18:36 PM
God I hate any episode about LURVE


:puke:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 30, 2016, 06:20:34 PM
That was pretty much why I made the list. There are a lot of episodes and many of them blow. That's even more true of TNG. I generally reckon of every series there are about half that are worth watching and half that aren't. In the case of TOS I picked the half that I would watch.

I think it's tougher for a TV show to satisfy you than me, I kinda fall for atmospheres and vibes or simply a cast, then individual episodes quality becomes a bit secondary. Like now I'm into "futuristic space federation sends star ships to explore uncharted planets and different alien civilizations" and that's that, whatever's available with that premise attached, I'm gonna watch. That doesn't mean I won't recognize episodes that suck, it just doesn't means that I'd still find some joy in watching them. We had a similar discussion about The Simpsons in Austin when we were hanging out before the DT show, I'm just more "articulate" in typing English than I am speaking it heh, relatively :lol

I just watched the TNG pilot and I have several remarks but most urgent is the question: can the blind black guy see with these shades or does it just show code for his surroundings?
And holy shit there's a Klingon on the bridge :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 30, 2016, 08:09:59 PM
That was pretty much why I made the list. There are a lot of episodes and many of them blow. That's even more true of TNG. I generally reckon of every series there are about half that are worth watching and half that aren't. In the case of TOS I picked the half that I would watch.

I think it's tougher for a TV show to satisfy you than me, I kinda fall for atmospheres and vibes or simply a cast, then individual episodes quality becomes a bit secondary. Like now I'm into "futuristic space federation sends star ships to explore uncharted planets and different alien civilizations" and that's that, whatever's available with that premise attached, I'm gonna watch. That doesn't mean I won't recognize episodes that suck, it just doesn't means that I'd still find some joy in watching them. We had a similar discussion about The Simpsons in Austin when we were hanging out before the DT show, I'm just more "articulate" in typing English than I am speaking it heh, relatively :lol

I just watched the TNG pilot and I have several remarks but most urgent is the question: can the blind black guy see with these shades or does it just show code for his surroundings?
And holy shit there's a Klingon on the bridge :lol
What he sees looks a lot like infrared.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ-RIhiBtpE He sees both above and below the visual spectrum, so it's much more cluttered and noisy than the thermal shown in the video. In S1E20 they show a scene through his visor. He doesn't see faces well, but sees microscopic cracks in walls and stuff.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 31, 2016, 12:47:20 PM
^ That's pretty neat.
TNG falls into the same dilemma that every futuristic show/movie falls in, the hair styles that easily bounds them to the production era, the reason I mention this is that I kinda thought they've successfully evaded that problem until Riker and Crusher showed up, before they got on the ship there was only Yar and Picard and both of them had a hair -or lack of- that can belong in any era. As soon as Riker and Crusher showed up and we saw Farpoint station, I was hit in the face with the late 80's heh
This isn't of course specific to TNG, as I said it's a standard dilemma for all futuristic works, except Back to The Future maybe, where they just went with too crazy with the hairstyles that I couldn't connect to any era, that was clever IMO.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on July 31, 2016, 01:09:22 PM
Could have been much worse.

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--1InknZIW--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/17sghw2fyw33ejpg.jpg)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/d48e4e5399d11d8d0681ddade949e34a/tumblr_nh3pigMEk31s2xlveo5_400.gif)
(https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/c/c2/Wesley_Crusher_screen_test.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120725111251&path-prefix=en)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on July 31, 2016, 01:13:02 PM
Can we get a music video of Geordi doing Soul Glow?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on July 31, 2016, 01:29:12 PM
Holy helll!!!!!!   :rollin  :rollin  :rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on July 31, 2016, 03:41:04 PM
" Shades of Gray "

" He's reliving memories ! It's a natural side of effect of stimulation ! "

You mean a writers strike :biggrin:


I actually really like that episode where Riker thinks he's been in a coma for 16 years and he's now Captain of the Enterprise.

He knows something is wrong when that alien thought that Minuet was a real person.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 31, 2016, 10:37:10 PM
" Shades of Gray "

" He's reliving memories ! It's a natural side of effect of stimulation ! "

You mean a writers strike :biggrin:


I actually really like that episode where Riker thinks he's been in a coma for 16 years and he's now Captain of the Enterprise.

He knows something is wrong when that alien thought that Minuet was a real person.

And I knew something was wrong when I saw a clip of Riker without the beard. :lol
The only consolation is knowing it improves dramatically after that episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 01, 2016, 02:00:05 AM
That picture of Geordi actually is more in tune with his loser character.  Here's a guy whose only friends are a annoying bully bait kid and a emotionally redunant robot, also Geordi when he's round women he 'likes' goes full on creepy stalker mode - see Leah Brahms. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 01, 2016, 04:56:05 AM
That picture of Geordi had the chorus from Michael Jackson's Beat It stuck in my head all day..

I'm 3 episodes into TNG, early impressions:
- The crew takes a bit of getting used to, none of them were instantly likable for me, unlike TOS where Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty were all hits from the get go for me.
- The show running and handling in general is tolerable so far, which says a lot since I'm a firm believer that good TV was made before the 80's and then after the mid 00's, excluding comedy of course.
- I like Patrick Stewart a lot, I know him as professor Xavier from the X-Men movies, Sejanus from I, Claudius and as CIA Deputy Director Bullock on American Dad, the latter being more recent and on-going, so on the first episode when his voice-over for the intro starts I kinda chuckled cause I thought of Bullock, it didn't help that Bullock called Stan Smith "number one" in a couple of American Dad episodes, but now I know where that came from :lol
- Patrick Stewart is too British to be French and it doesn't seem like he's putting much effort into being French on the show, so I guess I can try to forget that he's supposed to be.
- Geordi, Riker, Worf and Data are the characters I found interesting and could potentially have some story lines that I'd find cool.
- Troi and Yar, not so much.
- Crusher and Wesley, not at all.
- It really sucks that there are children on the ship, it takes away from the sense of danger they're suppose to have in exploring space.
- Data seems to be their way of having Spock around for this show without having another Vulcan on the bridge, he's not exactly like Spock of course but it feels like he was created to give the same impression.
- This is probably just me but it feels like that exposition dialogues on this show are sometimes too quick for how complicated they are, contrary to TOS where they usually eased you into the problem in a more relaxed fashion. On TNG I found myself rewinding a couple of times to catch details.
- I hope they explore Worf's backstory at some point, I'm curious to know if the Klingon empire has joined the federation or if he's some sort of rouge agent of his species.
Glad to have so much binge-ing ahead, I'll probably finish the first season then go back to finish TOS.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 01, 2016, 06:09:45 AM
Can we get a music video of Geordi doing Soul Glow?

I'd make fun of him but my mullet from the 80's is holding me back. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 01, 2016, 09:36:36 AM
That picture of Geordi had the chorus from Michael Jackson's Beat It stuck in my head all day..

I'm 3 episodes into TNG, early impressions:
- The crew takes a bit of getting used to, none of them were instantly likable for me, unlike TOS where Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty were all hits from the get go for me.
- The show running and handling in general is tolerable so far, which says a lot since I'm a firm believer that good TV was made before the 80's and then after the mid 00's, excluding comedy of course.
- I like Patrick Stewart a lot, I know him as professor Xavier from the X-Men movies, Sejanus from I, Claudius and as CIA Deputy Director Bullock on American Dad, the latter being more recent and on-going, so on the first episode when his voice-over for the intro starts I kinda chuckled cause I thought of Bullock, it didn't help that Bullock called Stan Smith "number one" in a couple of American Dad episodes, but now I know where that came from :lol
- Patrick Stewart is too British to be French and it doesn't seem like he's putting much effort into being French on the show, so I guess I can try to forget that he's supposed to be.
- Geordi, Riker, Worf and Data are the characters I found interesting and could potentially have some story lines that I'd find cool.
- Troi and Yar, not so much.
- Crusher and Wesley, not at all.
- It really sucks that there are children on the ship, it takes away from the sense of danger they're suppose to have in exploring space.
- Data seems to be their way of having Spock around for this show without having another Vulcan on the bridge, he's not exactly like Spock of course but it feels like he was created to give the same impression.
- This is probably just me but it feels like that exposition dialogues on this show are sometimes too quick for how complicated they are, contrary to TOS where they usually eased you into the problem in a more relaxed fashion. On TNG I found myself rewinding a couple of times to catch details.
- I hope they explore Worf's backstory at some point, I'm curious to know if the Klingon empire has joined the federation or if he's some sort of rouge agent of his species.
Glad to have so much binge-ing ahead, I'll probably finish the first season then go back to finish TOS.
Pretty good assessments. Worf will get more exposition than any of them, but for the first couple of seasons he's a throwaway character (and a pretty crappy Klingon). He's the one character that moves on to Deep Space 9 once TNG wraps up, and the importance of him and the Klingons really can't be understated.

Data will become far less annoying and is eventually a very good character. Something I never understood was why he had, what, 18 years of star fleet experience, but behaves in the first season of TNG like they just found him in a cave yesterady. His "emotional" development goes from 1-5 in the first 18 years and then from 5-100 in the next 2. Presumably he'd been a dishwasher or something on all of his previous assignments.

Patrick Stewart settles into the role nicely in the second season. He always seemed a little to excited in the first one.

The biggest problem for me, as has been discussed here quite a bit, is that Gene Roddenberry's picture of future humans is really boring. They have no soul. They don't get angry. They don't drink. They don't get laid. I hated him at first, but Riker is the one exception to that. He's actually a halfway normal guy.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 01, 2016, 10:28:37 AM
I think in the 24th century earth - you can be *from* France but there's no longer any need for passports and you can get around lickety split. It's all just "Earth". Therefore it's easier to live where you want and to move around a lot. 


With this in mind - it could explain why Picard was born French but sound English.

Also he could have grown up in England.

We don't really know Picards backstory.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 01, 2016, 10:37:29 AM
I think in the 24th century earth - you can be *from* France but there's no longer any need for passports and you can get around lickety split. It's all just "Earth". Therefore it's easier to live where you want and to move around a lot. 


With this in mind - it could explain why Picard was born French but sound English.

Also he could have grown up in England.

We don't really know Picards backstory.

He grew up in France. It was pretty explained in that episode when he goes home.

Still think it's a silly issue to have.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 01, 2016, 10:39:52 AM
I think it's a pretty easy thing to ignore given it's the future where they can just transport wherever, whenever. Accents and regions evolve all the time.

There's a video where Patrick Stewart tells about how when he was auditioning, they got him to try a French accent. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 01, 2016, 10:54:15 AM
I think it's a pretty easy thing to ignore given it's the future where they can just transport wherever, whenever. Accents and regions evolve all the time.


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 01, 2016, 04:25:01 PM
Data will become far less annoying and is eventually a very good character. Something I never understood was why he had, what, 18 years of star fleet experience, but behaves in the first season of TNG like they just found him in a cave yesterady. His "emotional" development goes from 1-5 in the first 18 years and then from 5-100 in the next 2. Presumably he'd been a dishwasher or something on all of his previous assignments.

Haha yeah, his behavior actually made me think he was fresh out of the wrapper, made special for the new Enterprise.
That mental image of Data as a dishwasher though heh, getting the news he'll finally be assigned to a ships bridge after 18 years of dish washing assignments :lol
You know I couldn't believe the actor is the area 51 scientist from Independence Day, he didn't age so well.

The biggest problem for me, as has been discussed here quite a bit, is that Gene Roddenberry's picture of future humans is really boring. They have no soul. They don't get angry. They don't drink. They don't get laid.

Well most humans we see on the show are either military officers or have to deal with military officers at their jobs, that could be one reason they seem so bland sometimes, that's how I saw it anyway.
TOS human crew drank on episodes that had shore leave though, like on Wolf in the Fold where it was also implied that Scotty was taking the dancer away to sleep with her.

I think in the 24th century earth - you can be *from* France but there's no longer any need for passports and you can get around lickety split. It's all just "Earth". Therefore it's easier to live where you want and to move around a lot. 

With this in mind - it could explain why Picard was born French but sound English.

Also he could have grown up in England.

I think it's a pretty easy thing to ignore given it's the future where they can just transport wherever, whenever. Accents and regions evolve all the time.

It's not just the accent, it's not the main thing I had in mind, it's how he carries himself and his general aura, he's super British IMO. But that's not really an "issue", it's just seemed odd to me to create a French character and chose someone like Stewart to play it.

I forgot to point out that was cool to see McCoy in that guest spot, a 137 years old! Bit of a spoiler now that I know he survives TOS and all the movies but that was probable anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 01, 2016, 04:33:27 PM

You know I couldn't believe the actor is the area 51 scientist from Independence Day, he didn't age so well.


Brent Spiner looks fine IRL for a 67 year old.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Brent_Spiner_by_Gage_Skidmore_%282%29.jpg/800px-Brent_Spiner_by_Gage_Skidmore_%282%29.jpg)

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 01, 2016, 04:49:59 PM
Data will become far less annoying and is eventually a very good character. Something I never understood was why he had, what, 18 years of star fleet experience, but behaves in the first season of TNG like they just found him in a cave yesterady. His "emotional" development goes from 1-5 in the first 18 years and then from 5-100 in the next 2. Presumably he'd been a dishwasher or something on all of his previous assignments.
The biggest problem for me, as has been discussed here quite a bit, is that Gene Roddenberry's picture of future humans is really boring. They have no soul. They don't get angry. They don't drink. They don't get laid.

Well most humans we see on the show are either military officers or have to deal with military officers at their jobs, that could be one reason they seem so bland sometimes, that's how I saw it anyway.
TOS human crew drank on episodes that had shore leave though, like on Wolf in the Fold where it was also implied that Scotty was taking the dancer away to sleep with her.
I was referring to the TNG crew. The TOS characters had a great deal of personality and all of the normal vices. They drank, caroused, got into fights, picked up chicks, etc. Later on Roddenberry apparently decided that humanity would be a paragon of virtue. Riker enjoys that sort of thing somewhat, but the rest of them are all pretty uptight.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 01, 2016, 04:54:46 PM
I don't see how that's a bad thing In and of itself.

When I watch TNG - my immediate thought isn't - Hang On....Nobody is getting drunk.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 01, 2016, 05:05:07 PM
I don't see how that's a bad thing In and of itself.

When I watch TNG - my immediate thought isn't - Hang On....Nobody is getting drunk.

Nor is mine. I do often think that they're pretty milquetoast, boring people, bereft of life, though. I don't expect them to be hedonistic party animals; that would be silly. It'd be nice if they had some character, and even a flaw or two, though.

And on a related note, I hadn't noticed until recently that after Famke Janssen put the moves on Riker, he immediately left for the holodeck, presumably to get laid. Can't think of any other humans that actually availed themselves of that luxury. Quark's was practically a whorehouse, but only for non-humans. Presumably mankind has "evolved beyond the point of such prurient interests."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 01, 2016, 05:06:39 PM
TIL milquetoast.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on August 01, 2016, 09:11:23 PM
Wow...I don't see that at all.   Troi had affairs....Krusher had an affair....Picard had an affair.  The Naked Now?   Wesley nearly got it on a couple of times.   Geordi got it on in the holodeck.   

etc...etc...   I mean, sure it's not prevalent and every episode or anything, but how many episodes do you want that to be the focus on?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 01, 2016, 10:13:25 PM
Candles don't count.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 02, 2016, 01:08:50 AM


[/quote]I was referring to the TNG crew. The TOS characters had a great deal of personality and all of the normal vices. They drank, caroused, got into fights, picked up chicks, etc. Later on Roddenberry apparently decided that humanity would be a paragon of virtue. Riker enjoys that sort of thing somewhat, but the rest of them are all pretty uptight.
[/quote]

When you watch 'Lower Decks' you begin to realise what a total prick Riker would be to work under :)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 02, 2016, 02:18:14 PM
Dr. Crusher reminds me of Kay Parker, except she's not hot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 02, 2016, 02:31:40 PM
Googles.....



...You're right. Kay Parker is definitely not hot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 02, 2016, 03:06:23 PM
Unworthy reply, human :hat
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 02, 2016, 03:08:49 PM
So, apparently the new ST show, Discovery, is going to be set BEFORE the original series.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 02, 2016, 03:13:15 PM
That doesn't sound good at all IMO, but I'm gonna check it out anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 02, 2016, 03:14:00 PM
So, apparently the new ST show, Discovery, is going to be set BEFORE the original series.

Thoughts?

Sounds dumb. But we'll see. I like Enterprise more than most. But if their ships look like Apple stores, I'm out.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 02, 2016, 03:26:22 PM
I HATE WHEN MY FUTURISTIC TV SHOWS LOOK FUTURISTIC !!!


I DEMAND MOTHER FUCKING CARDBOARD AND FAIRY LIGHTS
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 02, 2016, 03:26:51 PM
I HATE WHEN MY FUTURISTIC TV SHOWS LOOK FUTURISTIC !!!


I DEMAND MOTHER FUCKING CARDBOARD AND FAIRY LIGHTS

Exactly.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 02, 2016, 03:28:08 PM
Especially when flying a spaceship should look dumbed down. *sarcasm off*
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 02, 2016, 03:29:33 PM
Seems like an odd choice, considering the problems Enterprise ran into. The ear between TOS and TNG would have been a better choice.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 02, 2016, 03:31:11 PM
I do agree with that. Lots of time (stardates) to play with.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 02, 2016, 03:32:15 PM
Yeah set before Kirk's time there's so much more that they can't do.

PLUS *nobody* from any series can guest star unless it's set 12 years after Enterprise then the cast will have aged the correct amount.

Sigh.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 02, 2016, 03:33:55 PM
Yeah set before Kirk's time there's so much more that they can't do.

PLUS *nobody* from any series can guest star unless it's set 12 years after Enterprise then the cast will have aged the correct amount.

Sigh.

Patrick can play Picard's great great grandfather.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 02, 2016, 06:20:05 PM
I think the word "Humanoid" is the greatest gift the genre of space travel science fiction has ever gotten, it enables the creators to introduce alien life without resorting to ridiculous designs or making it look like an animal or a bug, a lot of movies and shows haven't utilized the word and they always end up with something that looks silly to me, even critically acclaimed movies like Aliens, E.T. or Independence Day, IMO.
TOS made good use of the word, aliens usually looked human for the most part, save for an odd skin color or bigger heads which are okay. I've had that thought a while back watching TOS and the reason I bring it up now is the alien designs I'm seeing on TNG, these Ferengi mofos are just so damn stupid looking and it almost pulls me away from the seriousness of the plot, let alone the Selay and the Antican from the episode Lonely Among us that I just saw.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 02, 2016, 10:17:55 PM
That's very true. But then at times they really take advantage of it. On really low budget weeks, they wouldn't even bother with the skin color or bigger heads. "Eh, just dress them up as Nazis and call it a fluke." In the latter era they resorted to the vag-face phenomenon (https://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050818220627/memoryalpha/en/images/d/d3/Gotana-Retz.jpg), where they just stuck prosthetic snappers on people's foreheads and called it a day.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 02, 2016, 11:16:46 PM
I'm still convinced the makeup department had some kind of bet going to see how close they could get someone's face to look like a vag without anyone questioning it. There was one in particular that had full on clit-face going on (from memory, I think it was the guy from Critical Care).

Pre-TOS still isn't confirmed yet as far as I know, mostly based on hints, but I hope somehow it's wrong. Given the direction of the ship and the registry, it does appear to be pre-TOS, but they should have learned their lesson from Enterprise.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 02, 2016, 11:19:06 PM
If it's set pre-TOS, then I'm no longer impressed that they decided to do it in the prime universe. I mean....duh.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 03, 2016, 10:04:39 AM
If it really is pre-TOS, I am 1000% less excited than I was.

That really limits the amount of "discovery" they can do.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 03, 2016, 10:24:13 AM
I'm still convinced the makeup department had some kind of bet going to see how close they could get someone's face to look like a vag without anyone questioning it. There was one in particular that had full on clit-face going on (from memory, I think it was the guy from Critical Care).


Jason Alexander was a good example too.
(https://www.startrek.com/uploads/assets/articles/40cd1d6c21e74c7d765f8930810f4a278e09c046.jpg)



Gives a whole new meaning to "Giving Head"   :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 03, 2016, 10:25:12 AM
That's a downright sexy slit he's got going on there. I bet there have been plenty of misunderstandings between species over that one. :zydar:

It would also give a new meaning to "mindfuck". :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 03, 2016, 11:01:19 AM
But in his case they spent money on a whole new forehead and a wig. I'm guessing that was more of an artistic decision to keep most of his face recognizable rather than a financial one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 03, 2016, 12:52:19 PM
Poor Jason Alexander.

Plays an alien on Star Trek.

Still bald.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 03, 2016, 12:55:33 PM
For all we know, that hairline is excellent for his species. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 03, 2016, 12:57:07 PM
GEORGE IS GETTING UPSET !


THIS GAGH IS MAKING ME THIRSTY !!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 03, 2016, 01:43:36 PM
Alexander guest stars on TNG?! Color me excited :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 03, 2016, 02:06:21 PM
Alexander guest stars on TNG?! Color me excited :lol
Nah, that's Voyager. You're at least 200 episodes away from that right now. Pretty good episode, though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 03, 2016, 05:09:24 PM
Oh my Gosh.

" Future Imperfect " is always ruined by that TOS style costume at the end and the hilariously cliche alien voice " :| MY NAME IS BARASH ".

Should have stayed Human looking.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 03, 2016, 05:26:03 PM
I like the concept of "Future Imperfect" and most of the episode, but yeah, the ending isn't great.  The concept is still good, just not a great execution.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 03, 2016, 05:33:17 PM
While the ending was cheesy, the bigger problem for me was that Tomalak was such a terrible Romulan. If they wanted one to be recurring they should have found a better choice.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 03, 2016, 06:56:15 PM
If Q. isn't the most annoying motherfuck of a character I've ever seen in anything..
I'm on edge about it being a combination between the character and the actor, but boy he's aggravating as fuck!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 03, 2016, 07:07:22 PM
Q is an excellent character. He can certainly be annoying, and some of his episodes are pretty weak, but he's also the main focus of some great episodes and from time to time does some pretty cool things.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 03, 2016, 07:08:10 PM
Q is awesome.


Yea.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 03, 2016, 07:16:47 PM
Him becoming human is my favorite episode with him.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 03, 2016, 07:24:35 PM
Currently watching Hide & Q, haven't finished it yet. This is the second time I see him on the show. I like how they know now they're completely helpless when he appears but the star fleet has no solutions for that problem, what do we do when Q. appears star fleet? We guess you'll just have to play along captain Picard. But he always threatens to kill us?! Well that's how it is sometimes you know, it's either you deal with that or you retire.
Maybe the recurring "nemesis" concept is a bit weird to me when it comes to Star Trek, I mean to register to it I gotta welcome the idea that the star ship traveling and exploring the galaxy could meet the same exact entity more than once. And there's no reasoning with him, I'm hearing Picard and Riker talking seriously and honestly to him but his replies are usually arrogantly stupid and unrelated to what they said, if the show means to portray him as a superior being, it has certainly failed so far IMO.
Maybe future episodes with him will be much better if you guys like him so much.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 03, 2016, 07:29:02 PM
When an actor or actress make you hate them so much but you want more you know they are great at what they do.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 03, 2016, 07:42:24 PM
Q is essentially a god. A very very bored and immature god.

Of course they'll run into him on multiple occasions. He can literally be wherever, whatever and whenever he wants.

And you're right, there's no reasoning with him. He is the most powerful being in existence (along with the rest of his people). There is no defense against him, you literally have NO choice what so ever than to do what he says or try to talk to him, and even then you have nothing with which to threaten him, except for your decision to not partake in his game.

He pushes the crew to explore themselves and what they take for granted more than almost anyone else.

Also, his back and forths with Worf are almost as good as with Picard.

Q: How can I prove to you that I am mortal?
Worf: Die....
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 03, 2016, 08:35:17 PM
In TNG he's really a once a season character. He just pops up twice in S1. Also, he pops up a lot because he has a strange fascination with humanity. Humans amuse him, and he actually likes Picard and Riker, along with Janeway who you don't know yet. As he's as keen to present them interesting opportunities as he is to just bully and belittle them.

Also, there was always speculation amongst Star Trek nerds that Q might have been Trelain, the lonely squire of Gothos. Interesting thing to ponder.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 03, 2016, 08:38:41 PM
In TNG he's really a once a season character. He just pops up twice in S1. Also, he pops up a lot because he has a strange fascination with humanity. Humans amuse him, and he actually likes Picard and Riker, along with Janeway who you don't know yet. As he's as keen to present them interesting opportunities as he is to just bully and belittle them.

Also, there was always speculation amongst Star Trek nerds that Q might have been Trelain, the lonely squire of Gothos. Interesting thing to ponder.

Honestly, I think it's more than amusement. I think All Good Things.... hinted pretty heavily that Q sees humanity as a possible race to become similar to Q one day in the distant future and that it's more a matter of expanding the mind than it is building technology.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 04, 2016, 02:13:48 AM
If Q. isn't the most annoying motherfuck of a character I've ever seen in anything..

If I've followed this thread correctly you are watching Trek for the first time ever?   If so you have yet to encounter Neelix.....
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2016, 02:15:27 AM
I like Neelix. He's a space rat with a skullet mohawk and the shittiest dress sense in any quadrant. :metal And he always means well. He's the lovable space hobo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 04, 2016, 02:38:23 AM
I like Neelix. He's a space rat with a skullet mohawk and the shittiest dress sense in any quadrant. :metal And he always means well. He's the lovable space hobo.

He looked like Mr T's runty ginger brother suffering a bout of measles.

Well apart from the fucked up grooming of Kes, then even more fucked up jealously issues.   Then there is the fact he's just utterly annoying nearly ever single time he's on screen.  Aside from that he's great :)

Neelix is that irritating bumbling comedy sidekick character you nearly always got in 80's cartoon.  Orko, Snarf, Scrappy, Slimer, Godzooky etc...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2016, 02:39:56 AM
I like Neelix. He's a space rat with a skullet mohawk and the shittiest dress sense in any quadrant. :metal And he always means well. He's the lovable space hobo.

He looked like Mr T's runty ginger brother suffering a bout of measles.


I thought you were trying to make the case for him NOT being awesome? :metal

The jealousy episode with Tom Paris was awful, but aside from that I always found him quite endearing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 04, 2016, 03:26:16 AM
I like Neelix. He's a space rat with a skullet mohawk and the shittiest dress sense in any quadrant. :metal And he always means well. He's the lovable space hobo.

He looked like Mr T's runty ginger brother suffering a bout of measles.


I thought you were trying to make the case for him NOT being awesome? :metal

The jealousy episode with Tom Paris was awful, but aside from that I always found him quite endearing.

Lets agree to disagree on this subject :)     Who would be your worst ST main character?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Nefarius on August 04, 2016, 03:29:53 AM
Tomalak was such a terrible Romulan.

I quite liked him, but in the end - by G'Quan - that's what you get when you ask a Narn to play a Romulan. :)

Greetings...
Nef
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2016, 03:32:24 AM
Tasha Yarr and Pulaski are my most hated. I kept hoping for Tasha to die, and then she did. It was pretty satisfying. :lol
And Pulaski just went out of her way to be a hardcore bitch. Couldn't stand her.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 04, 2016, 04:07:51 AM
Tasha Yarr and Pulaski are my most hated. I kept hoping for Tasha to die, and then she did. It was pretty satisfying. :lol
And Pulaski just went out of her way to be a hardcore bitch. Couldn't stand her.

I actually prefer Pulaski over Crusher.  I think they were looking for a McCoy type character with Pulaski with Data taking the Spock foil, genuinely I believe they were going to build an arc for these two characters, the sad thing is we only really saw the start of it when Pulaski was a bitch to 'it' (data) - I think the character would have soften over time, we started to see it happen as season 2 when on.   That would have been far more interesting than anything Crusher did once she was back (well aside from that ghostgasm).

Tasha died to an Oil slick - I don't care how they tried to retcon her death on 'Yesterday's Enterprise'.  She died to an oil slick, end off.

Not so much a main character but I always hated Keiko - what horrible sins must Miles have committed in previous lives to end up stuck with that miserable whining bitch.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2016, 04:13:45 AM
I was so glad Tasha got such a meaningless and pointless death. Killed by a random tar monster!
Pulaski was far too unlikeable for me to ever accept her character. It was obvious what they were going for with it, but it just wasn't working. She was a crusty old hate filled goat. Not that Crusher was a particularly good character, but compared to Pulaski, she wasn't such a bad option. Female characters really were not that show's strength.

Not so much a main character but I always hated Keiko - what horrible sins must Miles have committed in previous lives to end up stuck with that miserable whining bitch.

I'm more concerned what Keiko did wrong in life to end up with that sack of crap. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 04:20:30 AM
Whiskey.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2016, 04:23:06 AM
They probably only have the fake synthehol stuff anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 04:30:13 AM
Snythsky
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2016, 04:32:08 AM
Ensign Snythsky? The Russian guy?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 04, 2016, 04:41:28 AM
Friends don't let friends drink and drive a wessel.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 05:03:18 AM
Holo-hol :rollin




" Try new Holo-Hol ! You'll think you're actually drinking Alcohol !"





* leaves you with same empty feeling inside.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 04, 2016, 08:35:43 AM
Worst character would have to be Neelix of Troi. They're both pretty hard to stomach. At least Neelix was occasionally pretty funny. Troi was never any good. Even when they had decent stories for her, turning her into a Romulan for example, she was still pretty bad.

And I also preferred Pulaski, simply for the reason that she had spirit. As I've always stated, my problem with the TNG crew were that they had no soul. While she was a bitch more often than not, at least that qualifies as personality. I also consider Diana Muldaur a much better actor than McFadden.


Well apart from the fucked up grooming of Kes,
This really made me LOL.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 04, 2016, 08:56:51 AM
The 1st season of TNG, I couldn't stand Troi.  They did flush out her character better as the seasons went on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 04, 2016, 09:27:15 AM
They did flush out her character
Oh, if only.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 04, 2016, 09:29:09 AM
 :lol

THE PAAAAIIINNNN!!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 04, 2016, 09:55:24 AM
Maybe that's what she needed, a good flushing.  If anyone could give it to her, I'd've thought it would be Riker, but I guess not.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 12:09:07 PM
" The Game "

God I *HATE* fake laughing but the intro to this episode is beyond annoying.










Also :


(https://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200508/tng-268-uss-enterprise-d/320x240.jpg)



I've always wondered what the windows on the underside of the saucer are for. There's no windows on the floor. I wondered if the bottom of the dish had reverse gravity and it's actually the roof.

Otherwise they're very much on the floor.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 04, 2016, 12:51:31 PM
I've always wondered what the windows on the underside of the saucer are for. There's no windows on the floor. I wondered if the bottom of the dish had reverse gravity and it's actually the roof.

Otherwise they're very much on the floor.
If you're referring to the ones above the phaser ring, it looks like those are angled. Haven't we seen plenty of angle windows before? Or, maybe they just thought it looked cool and didn't give it another thought.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 12:55:11 PM
Or, maybe they just thought it looked cool and didn't give it another thought.

::) JJ.....Typical. Design over function. . .



Oh wait.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 04, 2016, 01:28:13 PM
Not sure what the eye roll is for.


Oh, wait.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 01:28:58 PM
No you really don't.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on August 04, 2016, 02:25:12 PM
Quick google found this
(https://www.itsoverproductions.com/quarters.jpg)

Those look like downward facing windows? Not at an extreme angle, but look downward to me.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 02:42:37 PM
Pretty much run out of non - Klingon / Worfs brother / birthright YAWN episodes of TNG

So started Voyager.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 04, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
Quick google found this
(https://www.itsoverproductions.com/quarters.jpg)

Those look like downward facing windows? Not at an extreme angle, but look downward to me.

That looks like DS9.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 02:47:32 PM
Yes. Enterprise D doesn't have windows like that or doors.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on August 04, 2016, 02:49:54 PM
It is DS9 - however, the design can be applied to starships.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 04, 2016, 02:50:06 PM
Ten-forward has the same downward sloping windows. Which is odd since they should go the opposite direction, being on the top of the saucer and all. I'm pretty sure I've seen other similarly sloped windows, which I think is what KTB was asking about.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: chknptpie on August 04, 2016, 02:51:49 PM
Captain Picard's quarters appear to have upward facing windows
(https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2769/4328178950_45c1724e22.jpg)

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 02:54:30 PM
Maybe his is on the top of the dish.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 04, 2016, 03:49:51 PM
Oh I just remembered. Voyager is the series that has really abrupt endings.

" Phew we did it. "

THE END


They're probably not all like that but I love a little epilogue before the episode ends.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 04, 2016, 09:53:04 PM
Speaking of endings, I watched the TNG episode Justice that ends with Picard telling Riker to "take us out of here, Number One", to which Riker responds enthusiastically "Gladly, sir" then proceeds to sit in his chair with a promising smile, says and does absolutely nothing pertaining to that order then the episode ends :lol
I laughed harder than I should have at that heh
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 04, 2016, 09:58:00 PM
Oh I just remembered. Voyager is the series that has really abrupt endings.

" Phew we did it. "

THE END


They're probably not all like that but I love a little epilogue before the episode ends.

I think that only really bothered me on the finale.

"WE MADE IT HOME"

-credits-
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 04, 2016, 11:19:18 PM
Ten-forward has the same downward sloping windows. Which is odd since they should go the opposite direction, being on the top of the saucer and all. I'm pretty sure I've seen other similarly sloped windows, which I think is what KTB was asking about.

Ten forward was always the lower half of the saucer rim, which is why they made the rim thicker on the 4ft model, because the 6ft wasn't designed with ten forward's height in mind for that section.
They only had a couple of sets for the other regular rooms, which is why you never see much variety in gradients on the windows, and you'd see how silly and impractical the ultra raked windows would look in reality.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 05, 2016, 05:07:27 AM
When I rewatched TNG the then that struck me was how little The Borg were in the series - I think they feature in about 6 episodes in total of the 178 made.   You would have thought after the success of 'The Best of Both Worlds' that they'd pop up far more.  I think there may well be more Lwaxana episodes than Borg ones...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Polarbear on August 05, 2016, 06:36:47 AM
When I rewatched TNG the then that struck me was how little The Borg were in the series - I think they feature in about 6 episodes in total of the 178 made.   You would have thought after the success of 'The Best of Both Worlds' that they'd pop up far more.  I think there may well be more Lwaxana episodes than Borg ones...

I'm happy that they didn't overuse the Borg in TNG. If they had Borg invading Federation every season, it wouldn't make sense. Also the borg stories in TNG after TBoBW, were really hit or miss. I liked 'I Borg' while 'Descent' was awful.

My favorite borg story after 'Best of Both Worlds' is 'Dark Frontier' in Voyager.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 05, 2016, 06:59:39 AM
When I rewatched TNG the then that struck me was how little The Borg were in the series - I think they feature in about 6 episodes in total of the 178 made.   You would have thought after the success of 'The Best of Both Worlds' that they'd pop up far more.  I think there may well be more Lwaxana episodes than Borg ones...

I'm happy that they didn't overuse the Borg in TNG. If they had Borg invading Federation every season, it wouldn't make sense. Also the borg stories in TNG after TBoBW, were really hit or miss. I liked 'I Borg' while 'Descent' was awful.

My favorite borg story after 'Best of Both Worlds' is 'Dark Frontier' in Voyager.

See, I consider the Descent episodes to be more Data/Lore episodes than Borg episodes, especially considering it's not the Borg collective, and the Borg could have easily been replaced with.....any one else at all and it wouldn't have made a lick of difference in the episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 05, 2016, 08:17:49 AM
Speaking of endings, I watched the TNG episode Justice that ends with Picard telling Riker to "take us out of here, Number One", to which Riker responds enthusiastically "Gladly, sir" then proceeds to sit in his chair with a promising smile, says and does absolutely nothing pertaining to that order then the episode ends :lol
I laughed harder than I should have at that heh
Justice could have been so much better than it actually was. The premise was excellent and that part of the episode (somebody needs to be executed in accordance with the prime directive) was nicely done. One of the rare examples of when making Wesley a focal point was a good move. The problem was that the people were pretty goofy and the inclusion of their God was silly and unnecessary. It's also one of the few times Picard tells a society to fuck off, not quite so in accordance with the prime directive.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 06, 2016, 12:12:58 PM
Voyager : " Parallax ".

Just started. I've seen a lot of episodes of VOY but never seen it all the way through.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 06, 2016, 12:28:57 PM
Voyager : " Parallax ".

Just started. I've seen a lot of episodes of VOY but never seen it all the way through.

I really like Voyager. The main problems are a good amount of awful episodes, and with rare exception, most of the crew has almost no major character development over the 7 years.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 06, 2016, 12:41:51 PM
S1 has the advantage of not being as horrendously 80s as TNG S1
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Polarbear on August 06, 2016, 01:20:33 PM
Voyager : " Parallax ".

Just started. I've seen a lot of episodes of VOY but never seen it all the way through.

I really like Voyager. The main problems are a good amount of awful episodes, and with rare exception, most of the crew has almost no major character development over the 7 years.

First 3 seasons of Voyager were pretty rough. There were a few great episodes, but not much. Scorpion part 1 and 2, was a real turning point for Voyager. After that things started to work pretty well for them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 06, 2016, 01:51:39 PM
Funny every time an alien says " you have 3 hours to reply "...

Picard or Janeway or whoever should have replied - " Ok - 3 hours on which planet ? "

:lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 06, 2016, 02:16:56 PM
I never considered any 1 season to be any better or worse than another. I still think it's the best pilot episode, and it sets everything up rolling nicely out of the gate. The problem with S1 and S2 were the Kazon, who just sucked.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 06, 2016, 05:08:05 PM
The reggae looking Klingons.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 06, 2016, 06:20:16 PM
It says something about them that the Borg bothered to assimilate Nelix's race but deemed the Kazon to be a sum negative.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 06, 2016, 07:07:54 PM
Man I forgot about that. Voyager is the one show I haven't rewarched.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 07, 2016, 12:45:52 AM
Voyager : " Parallax ".

Just started. I've seen a lot of episodes of VOY but never seen it all the way through.

I really like Voyager. The main problems are a good amount of awful episodes, and with rare exception, most of the crew has almost no major character development over the 7 years.

First 3 seasons of Voyager were pretty rough. There were a few great episodes, but not much. Scorpion part 1 and 2, was a real turning point for Voyager. After that things started to work pretty well for them.

I mostly agree with that, although S3 was a noticeable step up from S1/2 imo once they ditched the Kazon. S4 was definitely the major turning point in the show though, with the addition of 7 of 9, and the switch to full CGI allowed them to focus on the kinds of stories they were best at.
S2 is the weakest for me. Despite misfiring on their premise, S1 was actually a solid season of standalone episodes. It was formulaic, but it mostly worked. Once they tried branching out in S2, they faltered, especially anything to do with the Kazon, who were about as threatening as the Ferengi. At least they figured out quicker than the Ferengi were useless as enemies.

It says something about them that the Borg bothered to assimilate Nelix's race but deemed the Kazon to be a sum negative.

I bet they were worried about the space-fro getting in the way of their Borg appliances.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 07, 2016, 01:10:06 PM
" The Cloud. "

What the FRICK was this episode about ?








INB4 about 50 minutes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 07, 2016, 02:37:23 PM
:lol why are the replicated beverages on the starships so damn tiny ?

I assume it's so the actors don't have to swig so much and it's easier for continuity etc.

But If I wanted a coffee and it was the size of a ramekin - i'd be annoyed. . .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on August 10, 2016, 10:36:12 AM
(https://imgur.com/WUcSLOE.png)

That's a real billboard, advertising a real healthcare company whose thing is their red shirts.  Find a RedShirt (https://www.independenthealth.com/IndividualsFamilies/Medicare/FindARedShirt)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 10, 2016, 11:03:58 AM
lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 10, 2016, 02:06:58 PM
Voyager : " Cathexis ".

Great episode. Has the feel of a movie. I love the mystery element.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 10, 2016, 09:28:10 PM
So apparently Discovery will have a female lead (but not the captain), and be set 10 years before Kirk's 5 year mission.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 10, 2016, 09:31:43 PM
So apparently Discovery will have a female lead (but not the captain), and be set 10 years before Kirk's 5 year mission.

So the lead isn't the captain? Or is it like a co-lead along with the captain?

And the timeline is meh, hopefully the show can still be good.

I guess people really just have a hard-on for TOS and have really just stopped caring about anything TNG or onward.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 10, 2016, 09:34:17 PM
So apparently Discovery will have a female lead (but not the captain), and be set 10 years before Kirk's 5 year mission.

So the lead isn't the captain? Or is it like a co-lead along with the captain?

And the timeline is meh, hopefully the show can still be good.

I guess people really just have a hard-on for TOS and have really just stopped caring about anything TNG or onward.

It's somewhat cryptic, but apparently she has a different kind of dynamic with the crew (oh god please not a counselor)

https://nerdist.com/bryan-fuller-discusses-star-trek-discoverys-female-lead-setting-and-diversity/

I would have preferred to have it post-Nemesis, and just have her as the captain, without having to worry about remaining consistent with what some sexist old TV show said about there being no female captains at the time.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 10, 2016, 09:38:51 PM
Wait, I'm confused.

So originally they were like PRIME UNIVERSE! and I was super excited.

Then they were like PROBABLY PREKIRK and I stopped being excited because....obviously it's prime universe if it's before the Kelvin universe started.

Now it's 10 years before? So the Kelvin timeline does exist at that point. Still prime universe though? Seems......odd.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 10, 2016, 09:40:59 PM
Wait, I'm confused.

So originally they were like PRIME UNIVERSE! and I was super excited.

Then they were like PROBABLY PREKIRK and I stopped being excited because....obviously it's prime universe if it's before the Kelvin universe started.

Now it's 10 years before? So the Kelvin timeline does exist at that point. Still prime universe though? Seems......odd.

It is a little odd, although the Kelvin timeline still made retcons that apply pre-TOS, and even though we mostly assume the events were the same in both timelines prior to that, they were still established to us in the Prime Universe.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 10, 2016, 09:46:46 PM
Wait, I'm confused.

So originally they were like PRIME UNIVERSE! and I was super excited.

Then they were like PROBABLY PREKIRK and I stopped being excited because....obviously it's prime universe if it's before the Kelvin universe started.

Now it's 10 years before? So the Kelvin timeline does exist at that point. Still prime universe though? Seems......odd.

It is a little odd, although the Kelvin timeline still made retcons that apply pre-TOS, and even though we mostly assume the events were the same in both timelines prior to that, they were still established to us in the Prime Universe.

Yea, the Kelvin timeline starts essentially at the birth of Kirk. So I assumed this would be set before that but after Enterprise, which technically would exist in both.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 10, 2016, 09:52:54 PM
I personally don't like it being so close to the start of another series, especially TOS. It's going to have even more problems to contend with than ENT, and look how that turned out.
I expect this will be much better, but I just worry they'll be too confined in scope.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 10, 2016, 09:54:50 PM
Is it still the plan to do a different cast/era ever season? Was that just a rumor? Has it been discussed? Mike Portnoy Jewish?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 10, 2016, 09:57:15 PM
I think that one was specifically debunked.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 10, 2016, 09:58:37 PM
Dammit, I was finally coming around to that idea.

Ah well, guess we're back to "TOS era only forever" mindset.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 10, 2016, 10:00:52 PM
Maybe they're trying to capitalize on the movies renewed interest in the TOS era? I don't know whether it was CBS's decision from the start to set it near TOS or the people working on the show.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 10, 2016, 10:05:03 PM
We're definitely going to be stuck in TOS basic time era for the foreseeable future.

A real shame considering the best Trek took place over 100 years after.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 11, 2016, 06:49:26 AM
So apparently Discovery will have a female lead (but not the captain), and be set 10 years before Kirk's 5 year mission.

Odd decision.  Should have taken place sometime after the TNG/DS9/Voyager timeline.  They can't do anything much dramatic with the universe when we know what shape it will take in 10 years time, and also 100 years after that.  Set it after the last time period we've seen and you have a fresh page to start again - want to destroy the federation, do it.  Want the Borg to assimilate the entire Ferengi race, do it.  Want to introduce a proper Vulcan vs Romulan war, do it.  Want to introduce a new alien threat, do it.

Just feels like there is only so much they can do or tell when we already know how the future pans out - unless they create a third timeline.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 11, 2016, 09:53:40 AM
Quote from: That Fuller Guy
But the springboard for the series is an incident from the series’ past.

“There’s been a few rumors going around about [when] the show is set,” explained Fuller. “One of the things that was very exciting to me as a Star Trek fan was… There had been an incident, an event in Star Trek history and the history of Starfleet that had been talked about but never fully explored.

Figure out the incident and you have all the answers. The Talos IV thing is the obvious guess, but I'm not sure how that ties in. Plus, he suggests that it was merely talked about, and rules out the Romulan war. As for the timeline, The Cage took place 11 years before TOS, so we should be running parallel to that.

And focusing on a crew-member instead of the captain is actually not a bad idea. Hell, make her a redshirt. Lower Decks and the dynamic between the minions and the ranking officers was an interesting one.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 11, 2016, 10:00:14 AM
Yeah just show the bridge and bridge officers fleetingly.

Make it like you're a lowly crewmember who never gets to see the bridge.

Just roaming the halls, doing day to day stuff etc.


I wonder what Lt. Cmdr " with caveats " means...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 11, 2016, 10:07:43 AM
Also, it won't be "adventure of the week" as with most ST shows, but rather a 13-part story, like most newer shows.

Yeah, the time period frustrates me a little, especially with a title like Discovery, but the fact that the protagonist won't be a ship's captain is intriguing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 11, 2016, 10:10:47 AM
Set it 10 years before the Enterprise but set it several light years away.

TOS was basically Kirk's corner of the universe.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 11, 2016, 12:12:21 PM
:( I feel awful about this...

:) Neelix - this wasn't your fault...The important thing is that we found the source...


 :yeahright GET THIS CHEESE TO SICK BAY!!





:rollin Hahaha.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 11, 2016, 02:29:55 PM
VOY : " Initiations ".

What's the point in casting an actor to play basically the exact same character ?

That Kazon character Kar could not be any more Nog if he tried. He's just as f---ing annoying.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 11, 2016, 03:58:19 PM
" Elogium "

People in movies eating bugs.  :puke:

Cannot watch.  :xbones


:puke: :puke: ARGH FUCK - Kes eating apples whilst talking. SLURP SMACK CHEW SLURP .



Had to skip that episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 12, 2016, 03:48:54 PM
The thing that annoys me about Trek is that they can't just say " he's got flu " or " please get me an apple "

It has to be " He's got [INSERT PLANET HERE] flu "

or

" Please get me a [INSERT PLANET HERE] apple. "


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on August 12, 2016, 07:30:26 PM
I'm more annoyed that 500 years from now or however long it is they figured out interstellar travel, teleportation and all that cool shit but still can't deal with the flu.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 13, 2016, 12:01:58 AM
The thing that annoys me about Trek is that they can't just say " he's got flu " or " please get me an apple "

It has to be " He's got [INSERT PLANET HERE] flu "

or

" Please get me a [INSERT PLANET HERE] apple. "




Flu is a basic translation for a common but different illness on the planet. I'm not seeing the problem, aside from a lack of creativity in naming things. But it's easier than saying "He has blelgogeeegoelbebkelj which is sort of like our flu but not our flu so it would be silly to call it the flu".

And I hear that Andorian apples are the tastiest.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on August 13, 2016, 03:28:46 AM

And I hear that Andorian apples are the tastiest.

I'm picturing a blue apple with not one, but two separate stems sticking out of it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 13, 2016, 09:34:31 AM

And I hear that Andorian apples are the tastiest.

I'm picturing a blue apple with not one, but two separate stems sticking out of it.

My fave thing about post TNG Trek is that any device has to have flashing lights on it and any beverage has to be a luminous colour because future :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 13, 2016, 03:26:26 PM
Cold Fire...

" Kes - according to our scans..."

Me - *thinking* " the station is 300 years old...

" The station is 300 years old "

 :o WTF ?!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 14, 2016, 01:55:00 PM
Intro to " Prototype " VOY S2 E13 is so RoboCop.

Janeway shoulda said " I love this guy ! "


" Meld "

Hmmmm a crewmember is dead. Who could it be ??

Tuvok ? Janeway ? Kim ? Paris or crewman Brad Dourif who we've never seen before ? :biggrin:



" Dreadnought "

" When a Bomb starts talking I get nervous "

Haha. Dark Star ref ?


Oh For fuck's sake....No wrap up ? Bomb goes off. Credits.







Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 15, 2016, 05:46:35 AM
So I was at home with a Ill last night, flicking though Netflix and came across a Star Trek documentary called 'The Captains' in which The Shat goes and interviews all the other Star Trek Captains.  It was mostly pretty dull but Avery Brooks is now(?) batshit mental, seriously his interview with Shat is full blown amazing.   The interview is Shat talking to Brooks who is on his piano, he basically ignores any question Shat asks and just plays Jazz making up lyrics full of cod-wisdom, and seems to not be speaking linear!   In the end Shat joins in (seriously) and we end up with this utterly surreal jazz duet. 

I honestly can't tell if ...

- Brooks was just trolling the Shat.
- He is just totally out there.
- He was on LSD.
- The Prophets really did fuck with his mind.

Either way it make strangely compelling and cringeworthy viewing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 15, 2016, 05:47:27 AM
Double post.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 15, 2016, 06:02:12 AM
I'm pretty sure Brooks was off his face in that interview. It was the only part of that doco I didn't like. Everyone else was great.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 15, 2016, 06:14:50 AM
I'm pretty sure Brooks was off his face in that interview. It was the only part of that doco I didn't like. Everyone else was great.

Thought Mulgrew came across a bit defensive, but there again some of Shat's questions were a bit odd in their interview.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 15, 2016, 06:17:29 AM
Been a while since I watched it, but I don't remember getting that vibe from Mulgrew. I felt she was very honest and open though, which I liked. Bakula was cool too.
And nothing needs to be said about Shat and Stewart.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 15, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Been a while since I watched it, but I don't remember getting that vibe from Mulgrew. I felt she was very honest and open though, which I liked. Bakula was cool too.
And nothing needs to be said about Shat and Stewart.

Stewart came across better than he often can do.   Yeah Bakula seemed like a decent bloke, but he's aww shucks personality problem explains why he seemed a lot more comfortable as Sam Beckett but a rather then Cap't Archer.   Chris Pine came across pretty well, although he wasn't in it as much as the others.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 16, 2016, 10:54:41 AM
I thought The Captains was really good, and very interesting.

The Brooks segment was my favorite part  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 16, 2016, 03:17:36 PM
Star Trek Voyager : Lifesigns.

This episode is interest...OH ITS THAT FUCKING POOL HALL *AGAIN*




I had a thought about Encounter At Farpoint. When Wes fell in the river in the holodeck - shouldn't he be dry immediately after he left ? Or are some things real in there and the rest is a projection ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 16, 2016, 03:49:28 PM
Voyager " Investigations ".

Wow - a two minute single take in the opening. Pretty Impressive.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 16, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
Star Trek Voyager : Lifesigns.

This episode is interest...OH ITS THAT FUCKING POOL HALL *AGAIN*




I had a thought about Encounter At Farpoint. When Wes fell in the river in the holodeck - shouldn't he be dry immediately after he left ? Or are some things real in there and the rest is a projection ?

Honestly, it depends on how much thought you want to give that stuff. The holodeck was always considered a mixture of holograms and replicator technology, which is why if someone eats in the holodeck, they're actually eating food that has essentially been replicated there. So you could argue that the water was replicated and thus real.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 16, 2016, 04:46:05 PM
The problem is that the Moriarty episode pretty much blows that out of the water. They were very clear that holodeck matter loses cohesion after it leaves the holodeck. Picard demonstrated with a book, as I recall, so it wasn't just the Moriarty character that's effected.

And now that he brought it up, the whole The Naked Now thing started after Wesley hit Picard with a holographic snowball, also outside the HD.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 16, 2016, 04:50:03 PM
The problem is that the Moriarty episode pretty much blows that out of the water. They were very clear that holodeck matter loses cohesion after it leaves the holodeck. Picard demonstrated with a book, as I recall, so it wasn't just the Moriarty character that's effected.

And now that he brought it up, the whole The Naked Now thing started after Wesley hit Picard with a holographic snowball, also outside the HD.

Like I said, they explained it as a mixture of holograms and replicated material. It just so happens the books were holograms, but they easily could have been replicated and then would be able to leave the holodeck.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 17, 2016, 12:35:06 PM
If I was pitching ideas for Discovery - i'd love to overturn the cliches of the previous 4 series.

" Sir ! Someone is stealing a shuttle ! "

" Lock on tractor beam ! "

" Got him. Bringing it back now. "

Cut to The Brig. :rollin






Moriarty : You cannot leave the holodeck. I am in control

Officer : Computer - End Program.

* Program ends - crew leave *

:rollin
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 17, 2016, 06:41:15 PM
I thought the Moriarty episode was excellent. The first one with Data as Holmes was pretty weak. (And on a side note, Data walked out of the holodeck carrying a piece of holographic paper.) The premise, the multiple mindfucks and the resolution of SiaB were all quite good.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 17, 2016, 06:42:57 PM
I also liked their portrayal of Moriarty. He wasn't a pure villain or anything and you could really empathize with him.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on August 17, 2016, 10:22:14 PM
https://www.startrek.com/article/bryan-fuller-reveals-discovery-details

Eehh... doesn't inspire confidence but I will still give it a fair shot.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: jammindude on August 19, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
I'm watching the episode with that DAHM CAHNDLE!!!!   ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: PowerSlave on August 20, 2016, 03:32:55 AM
I'm watching the episode with that DAHM CAHNDLE!!!!   ;D

BBC America? It was on when i got home from work. Yep, it's bad.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 21, 2016, 08:21:49 AM
HAHAHA.  ;D ;D ;D


" In Star Trek 4 - The crew of the Enterprise go back in time in a vehicle which previously belonged to Christopher Lloyd ".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 21, 2016, 11:32:29 PM
watched a couple of early Seven episode of voyager (Day of Honor, The Raven). Seems like there was a run where Seven was much softer than usual. At first she was 100% Borg. But then she started to come to grips with being Anneke Hanson and talked with a good deal of humanity. She was inquisitive and very unsure of herself. Gave her a real vulnerability. Not too long after she just turned cyborg and spoke with the same demeanor as a highly condescending Tuvak. Any vulnerability was replaced by supreme arrogance. Shame that didn't last a bit longer. They could have spent a whole season with her trying to learn the ropes. They moved pretty quickly into the adversarial role.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 22, 2016, 04:27:04 PM
I'm watching several eps of Voyager a day and Kes always sounds overdubbed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 22, 2016, 04:30:16 PM
I'm watching several eps of Voyager a day and Kes always sounds overdubbed.

Really? I've never noticed that.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 22, 2016, 04:46:02 PM
Apparently Shatner has apologized for Star Trek V.

Not for how bad it was, mind you, but for running out of money and not including fire shooting rock monsters that he had wanted.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 22, 2016, 04:48:38 PM
Nearly up to S4 of Voyager.

After Voyager i'll watch Enterprise as it's only short and then DS9 finally.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 22, 2016, 04:52:25 PM
Nearly up to S4 of Voyager.

After Voyager i'll watch Enterprise as it's only short and then DS9 finally.

While I don't have the same distaste for seasons 1 and 2 of Enterprise, it gets realllllly good in season 3. Of course my version of really good and yours might be different. Season 3 is quite dark and largely focused on a single story. Not a lot of fun or light hardheartedness in it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 22, 2016, 04:56:15 PM
I have seen some eps.

I actually like the augment trilogy although I thought it was a bit of a stretch trying to retcon Dr. Noonien Soong being the creator of Khan.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 22, 2016, 04:59:34 PM
I have seen some eps.

I actually like the augment trilogy although I thought it was a bit of a stretch trying to retcon Dr. Noonien Soong being the creator of Khan.

Well, the names work. Noonien Soong, Khan Noonien Singh.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 22, 2016, 05:02:11 PM
Like I said. Retcon.

Roddenberry came up with those names IRL to try to find a friend by that name.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 22, 2016, 05:03:47 PM
Like I said. Retcon.

Roddenberry came up with those names IRL to try to find a friend by that name.

Yup! But pretty much everything that links Enterprise to any other show is retcon anyway. It's the problem with prequel series.

Assuming Discovery tries to tie in with any other series of ST, you'll be seeing tons of it.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 22, 2016, 06:15:29 PM
The plot thickens. Janeway is on the holodeck sopping wet, and then hauls ass to the bridge, as they've come under attack, where she arrives dry, hair neatly coiffed.

Nearly up to S4 of Voyager.

After Voyager i'll watch Enterprise as it's only short and then DS9 finally.

While I don't have the same distaste for seasons 1 and 2 of Enterprise, it gets realllllly good in season 3. Of course my version of really good and yours might be different. Season 3 is quite dark and largely focused on a single story. Not a lot of fun or light hardheartedness in it.
Once I actually looked at all of the episodes I figured out that season three has about the same ratio of good/bad episodes as any other season. A lot of it is just standalone episodes with little or no link to the Xindi arc, and in some cases they're the absolute bottom of the barrel. The Western, the mutants and the Beauty and the Beast episode might well be the worst of the entire series. It also had too many different plot angles happening (the sphere builders thing was just too much). It probably was the best of the 4 seasons, by virtue of the standouts, but I don't consider it all that much better than the others.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2016, 10:07:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUn3ZxYmE6c

If Yesterday's Enterprise was a movie.


I think a few of the episodes could have been movies. We should have had All Good Things as the swan song instead of Nemesis.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 24, 2016, 10:11:12 AM
Stick widescreen bars over the top, add some faux epic orchestral music, edit like a cliche trailer complete with the green screen at start, and suddenly people are like OMG SO AWESOME

People are so easy.


Still a better movie than Nemesis though. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2016, 10:46:01 AM
Plus you have to zoom in because TNG was in square format.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 24, 2016, 01:43:11 PM
I've started a re-watch of TNG, but I'm not hitting every single episode.  I'm being a little selective (especially in the first two seasons).

So I started with "Where No One Has Gone Before", which was much worse than I remembered.  Ye gods.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2016, 02:26:57 PM
I've started a re-watch of TNG, but I'm not hitting every single episode.  I'm being a little selective (especially in the first two seasons).

So I started with "Where No One Has Gone Before", which was much worse than I remembered.  Ye gods.

Me too. :o Dear Me. Season 1 of TNG is *SO* bad. . .

What's the episode where Tasha has to fight for those Jamaican Aliens ? Code Of Honour ?

Quite possibly the worst episode of Trek ever. What. A. Mess.

I'd say some eps of TNG S1 are more dated than some eps of TOS.

If anyone was to start TNG from the beginning - i'd say watch Encounter At Farpoint *just* to set everything up then skip straight to S2. Maybe S3...

Some eps of TNG S1 are more dated than some eps of TOS!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 24, 2016, 03:18:54 PM
Yeah, I am totally considering skipping the rest of season 1.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2016, 03:34:10 PM
I'm on S4 of Voyager.

Last night was the episode where they get 7 of 9.

I'm such a baby. That scene where they disconnect 7 from the collective and she reacts in pain - I was like "awwww :( " because of the face she made and her little yelp....




You can imagine what I think of the scene at the end of JAWS  :xbones

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2016, 03:50:28 PM
Watching Voyager episode S4 E2 The Gift

Jeri Ryan is a great actor. :'(
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 24, 2016, 03:53:45 PM
About a third of season 1 is perfectly watchable. It's just that the other 2/3 is so bad. I've gone back and watched some of the more decent ones quite recently and they didn't bug me much. I certainly wouldn't tell somebody to skip the whole thing. I'd just warn them that most of it blows.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2016, 03:58:00 PM
About a third of season 1 is perfectly watchable. It's just that the other 2/3 is so bad. I've gone back and watched some of the more decent ones quite recently and they didn't bug me much. I certainly wouldn't tell somebody to skip the whole thing. I'd just warn them that most of it blows.

It's really 80s and has that horrible constant synth score. And then there's scenes with no background music or SFX at all which are really jarring with handheld camera which makes it seem really

amateur.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2016, 04:20:45 PM
WTF is this ? Apocalypse Now ?

How is this Star Trek ? :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 24, 2016, 05:29:01 PM
Favourite characters from each series ?

• TOS - Spock

• TNG - Data

• DS9 - Odo

• VOY - EMH

• ENT - tbc



:rollin omg. the scene where Neelix has to teach 7 how to eat.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 25, 2016, 08:21:27 AM
OK, I rewatched "Datalore" and that wasn't too bad.  But being impatient, and not in the mood to suffer through any more bad material, I skipped straight ahead to "Elementary, Dear Data" which was fun.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 25, 2016, 08:29:37 AM
Favourite characters from each series ?

• TOS - Spock

• TNG - Data

• DS9 - Odo

• VOY - EMH

• ENT - tbc



:rollin omg. the scene where Neelix has to teach 7 how to eat.
The only one I'd change is DS9, and I'd either go with Garack or Dukat. Weyoun and Kai Ratched a very close third. DS9 is the best example of an ST show where the secondary characters are all far more interesting than the primary ones.

As for ENT, if Shran counts, there you are. Otherwise I might go with the dog.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Polarbear on August 25, 2016, 09:04:14 AM
Favourite characters from each series ?

TOS - McCoy

TNG - Picard or Data

DS9 - Odo, Dax or Bashir

VOY - Seven, Doctor or Kes

ENT - ? Maybe Hoshi?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2016, 09:31:10 AM
Kes ?


Boy was I glad when she left... She was like an irritating cross between Tasha Yar & Deanna Troi.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on August 25, 2016, 10:06:42 AM
• TOS - no one, haven't finished it bc bad

• TNG - Data / Picard / Q

• DS9 - this is a tough one since so many of them are great. Jadzia Dax, Odo, Garak would be the first three.

• VOY - no one, haven't finished it bc bad

• ENT - Archer/ T'Pol - This is a bit hard, because for me at least there were no big standouts, but they worked really well together as a team.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2016, 11:46:17 AM
:rollin :rollin

Voyager : S4 E7 : Scientific Method.

When you see the EMH drawing in the holodeck and then you ee his drawing and it's TERRIBLE.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 25, 2016, 11:50:30 AM
Good episode, though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2016, 11:58:27 AM
I'm saying it's a funny joke. Not that it's a bad scene.

I LOVE jokes that don't draw attention to themselves.

If it was a Seth Rogen / Will Ferell film - there'd be 5 minutes of actors screaming about how awful the drawing is.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2016, 12:09:29 PM
Woah Michael Ironside.

Oh wait no it's Kurtwood Smith. I always get them confused...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 25, 2016, 12:27:05 PM
Woah Michael Ironside.

Oh wait no it's Kurtwood Smith. I always get them confused...

Dumbass!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2016, 12:29:03 PM
Well a double dumbass on you !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 25, 2016, 12:29:16 PM
:lol

I'm not sure Kotow will get the reference, and just think you're calling him a dumbass for no reason.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2016, 12:30:42 PM
Is it a robocop reference or a Voyage Home ref ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 25, 2016, 12:35:48 PM
Is it a robocop reference or a Voyage Home ref ?
Red Foreman from That 70's Show. Great reply, though.  :tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2016, 12:36:56 PM
ive not seen it but I know he's in it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 25, 2016, 12:37:35 PM
I actually knew him from That '70s Show first, so I always found it funny seeing all of his earlier serious roles where he was often a bad guy. And his appearances in Trek have always amused me too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 25, 2016, 12:42:00 PM
He just makes me call everybody dumbass.

Including him as Annorax, actually. The solution was, in retrospect, painfully obvious.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2016, 12:42:08 PM
Both he and Ronny Cox seem like theyd be nice in real life.




Edit : Annorax. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 25, 2016, 02:12:19 PM
WTF ?!

Voyager : " Random Thoughts " - When Tuvok thinks " violent thoughts " - some of the images are from "Event Horizon" :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on August 26, 2016, 06:25:35 AM
Favourite characters from each series ?

• TOS - Spock

• TNG - Data

• DS9 - Odo

• VOY - EMH

• ENT - tbc


TOS : Kirk.
There are only 3 main characters to choose from here Kirk, Spock and Bones and they are all great in their own way.
TNG : Worf.
Toss Up between Picard and Worf.
DS9 : Garek (because I don't want to pick Worf again)..
So many good characters on this show - Bashir, O'Brien, Jax (ver 1), Dukot....
VOY : The Doctor.
Slim Pickings.
ENT : Trip.
Slimmer Pickings.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 26, 2016, 03:43:15 PM
TNG : Worf.
Toss Up between Picard and Worf.
DS9 : Garek (because I don't want to pick Worf again)..
Worf would actually be a decent pick for DS9 (though IMO far behind several of the secondary characters), but he'd be very low on my list for TNG, even though I dislike damn near all of them. Worf was a weak Klingon for most of that series. He certainly had his better moments when dealing with actual Klingon stuff, but those tended to be offset by a lot of other factors (Troi, his idiot son, his suckiness at his job). Once he got to DS9 he was basically just allowed to be his own guy and it worked far better for him.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 27, 2016, 07:18:03 AM
What are the overlap seasons of TNG and DS9?  How much cross-pollination/continuity was there between the shows while both were on the air?

I never watched much of DS9 when it was on the air.  When I start my rewatch, will I need to start it while I am still watching TNG or will I be OK to wait until I'm done with TNG?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 27, 2016, 07:22:57 AM
I can't really think of any major crossover between them, nothing that would benefit from watching them side by side at least. I say just watch TNG, then watch DS9.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 27, 2016, 07:27:05 AM
More like Picard showing up in the beginning.   There is the same timeline,but no definite episode to crossover on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: abydos on August 27, 2016, 08:05:09 AM
I can't really think of any major crossover between them, nothing that would benefit from watching them side by side at least. I say just watch TNG, then watch DS9.
Yeah, this is how I did it too. DS9 is amazing, especially after S2.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 27, 2016, 11:37:38 AM
That's what I thought.  :tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 27, 2016, 12:45:49 PM
There are some references here and there, though, which put them in the same time period. Voyager refers to some events in the DS9 canon regarding the Dominion War and the Maquis. And I believe some of the TNG moves make references to DS9, as well. Probably just making up excuses for Worf to show up, I suppose.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 27, 2016, 01:37:22 PM
Voyager : The Killing Game part 1.

Roughly 30 mins in when 7 starts singing - is it me or is there a noticeable audio cut in ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 27, 2016, 02:46:23 PM
Not much for crossovers except for when worf went to DS9 and Bashir came to the enterprise for a bit.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 27, 2016, 07:09:57 PM
Thought to give you guys a break from my newbie noise heh
Just watched By Any Other Name, loved it. So much real tension in this episode, especially when they thought to self destruct. A couple of firsts for me:
- Kirk stood there and witnessed the cold blooded execution of an unarmed crew member, Yeoman Thompson. A moment that felt like it should be crushing but Shatner failed to make it work. Still though, it was something.
- Red shirt Denzel Washington A. Had a relatively big speaking role. B. Was a more than a decent actor. C. Did not die. I also think this might have been the first black guy in a red shirt(could be wrong).
- The gang tries several solutions to get out of the dilemma and fail, usually the second thing works heh

This could have made it into a top 5 list up to the scene where all the crew member have been turned into the little cubes and only Kirk, Spock, Bones and Scotty remain. Then it took a down turn once the highly intelligent creatures became ridiculously gullible. I paused at the scene where they were eating at the mess hall and told my wife "there's only 10 minutes left and they're super beat, the rest of this episode is gonna offer a silly resolution to the plot" :lol
I still enjoyed it a lot overall.
Oh and
Quote
Kirk: I don't usually go around beating up beautiful women.
Kelinda: Why not?
Kirk: Well, there are better things for men and women to do.
Kelinda: Like what?
Me: :neverusethis:

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on August 28, 2016, 09:39:58 AM
What are the overlap seasons of TNG and DS9?  How much cross-pollination/continuity was there between the shows while both were on the air?

I never watched much of DS9 when it was on the air.  When I start my rewatch, will I need to start it while I am still watching TNG or will I be OK to wait until I'm done with TNG?
It would be fine to watch all of TNG then move on to DS9. From Seasons 4 and onwards, TNG starts setting up a lot of stuff that DS9 revolves around; the Cardassians, the Bajorans, and the Maquis namely.

Favourite characters from each series ?
TOS: Spock
TNG: Picard or Data. Worf is pretty good in the episodes that focus on him otherwise, he's just used a punching bag or the guy who gives Picard bad advice.
DS9: All of them? I guess if I had to choose, Dukat, Garak, Kira, or Jadzia Dax.
VOY: 7 of 9, Tuvok, or the Doctor
ENT: Never watched it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 28, 2016, 01:12:55 PM
Thought to give you guys a break from my newbie noise heh
Just watched By Any Other Name, loved it. So much real tension in this episode, especially when they thought to self destruct. A couple of firsts for me:
- Kirk stood there and witnessed the cold blooded execution of an unarmed crew member, Yeoman Thompson. A moment that felt like it should be crushing but Shatner failed to make it work. Still though, it was something.
- Red shirt Denzel Washington A. Had a relatively big speaking role. B. Was a more than a decent actor. C. Did not die. I also think this might have been the first black guy in a red shirt(could be wrong).
- The gang tries several solutions to get out of the dilemma and fail, usually the second thing works heh

This could have made it into a top 5 list up to the scene where all the crew member have been turned into the little cubes and only Kirk, Spock, Bones and Scotty remain. Then it took a down turn once the highly intelligent creatures became ridiculously gullible. I paused at the scene where they were eating at the mess hall and told my wife "there's only 10 minutes left and they're super beat, the rest of this episode is gonna offer a silly resolution to the plot" :lol
I still enjoyed it a lot overall.
Oh and
Quote
Kirk: I don't usually go around beating up beautiful women.
Kelinda: Why not?
Kirk: Well, there are better things for men and women to do.
Kelinda: Like what?
Me: :neverusethis:
This was always one of my favorites. And silly though the ending may have been, it actually made a lot of sense. I especially liked McCoy pumping the dude full of amphetamines to get him riled up. On top of the good episode, Kelinda was one of my favorite of the ST babes. Good looking gal. And compared to most ST babes, the girl was actually wearing more clothes than she was probably accustomed to as an actress.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2016, 02:37:03 PM
Finished S4 of Voyager.

I'll start S5 tomorrow.

When S7 is finished i'll start Enterprise. And then DS9 .
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 28, 2016, 02:42:47 PM
Finished S4 of Voyager.

I'll start S5 tomorrow.

When S7 is finished i'll start Enterprise. And then DS9 .

Saving the best for last.  :tup
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2016, 02:46:52 PM
I've seen a lot of DS9 - i just lost interest when it became about one thing.

But i'll try again.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 28, 2016, 02:51:21 PM
I can't remember if it's season 1 or 2 but Duet is one of my favorite episodes of DS9 and Trek in general.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 28, 2016, 02:54:31 PM
Sounds familiar. I've seen S1 and 2 at least I think.



EDIT : oh of course. THAT episode.


Amazing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 29, 2016, 08:18:17 AM
I've seen a lot of DS9 - i just lost interest when it became about one thing.

But i'll try again.
Even when ST starts following 1 story arc there are always tons of one-off episodes that are unrelated or at most tangentially related. Even season 7 of DS9, when they had the entirety of the war to wrap up, half the episodes involved the Dominion and half were all sorts of other stuff; baseball, weddings, alternate universes, whatnot. The Xindi season of Enterprise is the same way. It's about 50/50 story stuff and throwaway episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 29, 2016, 08:23:10 AM
I prefer when shows have a good mix. I don't want nothing but story arc, because it's not realistic, and it gets monotonous.

That said, there is no justification for that dreadful baseball episode. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: The King in Crimson on August 29, 2016, 08:30:52 AM
I prefer when shows have a good mix. I don't want nothing but story arc, because it's not realistic, and it gets monotonous.

That said, there is no justification for that dreadful baseball episode. :lol
I love that baseball episode, although it sure does stick out quite a bit when surrounded by a bunch of war episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on August 29, 2016, 10:08:40 AM
What are the overlap seasons of TNG and DS9?  How much cross-pollination/continuity was there between the shows while both were on the air?

I never watched much of DS9 when it was on the air.  When I start my rewatch, will I need to start it while I am still watching TNG or will I be OK to wait until I'm done with TNG?
It would be fine to watch all of TNG then move on to DS9. From Seasons 4 and onwards, TNG starts setting up a lot of stuff that DS9 revolves around; the Cardassians, the Bajorans, and the Maquis namely.
Cool.

Still just watching selected TNG episodes, since I did actually watch them all (at least, from season 3 onward).  This weekend I hit "A Matter of Honor", "The Measure of a Man", "Q Who", "Deja Q", "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Sarek", and "Best of Both Worlds Pt. 1".
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 29, 2016, 11:34:52 AM
I prefer when shows have a good mix. I don't want nothing but story arc, because it's not realistic, and it gets monotonous.

That said, there is no justification for that dreadful baseball episode. :lol

Say what?!  I love that baseball episode!!  Damn you Blob, damn you.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 29, 2016, 11:47:03 AM
So I've just started S5 of Voyager and i've seen "Night" before.

Also I think I now prefer VOY to TNG  :o
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on August 29, 2016, 11:50:14 AM
The basebal episode was okay. The underdog angle was a bit overplayed, but Worf really saved it with his Klingon comic relief.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: King Postwhore on August 29, 2016, 12:03:24 PM
The basebal episode was okay. The underdog angle was a bit overplayed, but Worf really saved it with his Klingon comic relief.

That's what I loved about it.  I've had many friends who like Work did not like/understand the aspects of baseball and teamwork. 

Though my episode that's not a part of the story arch was Far Beyond The Stars.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 29, 2016, 12:17:27 PM
So I've just started S5 of Voyager and i've seen "Night" before.

Also I think I now prefer VOY to TNG  :o
I really hated it on my first or second view through. At some point I watched it all from beginning to end and realized it was far better than initially thought. It suffers from some pretty crappy bad guys, and there are parts where they were clearly just making shit up as they went along, but it's still a pretty good show. A couple of more interesting characters would have really helped. Most of the main crew were pretty bland.

edit: Oh, and they pretty much ruin the Borg, which is a shame. Didn't really matter though, as the franchise was pretty much done with them anyway.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 29, 2016, 12:18:53 PM
Yes bland crew was my main problem with it before. But EMH Neelix and 7 more than make up for them.

Jeri Ryan and Robert Picardo in particular are amazing at comedy.

Not least in the "Body And Soul" episode where the EMH embodies 7's body.



EDIT : WTF ?! Go watch the S5 episode "Night" Of Voyager... around 38 mins in and Chakotay says " What about us, don't we have a say ? " and Robert Beltran's mouth is CLEARLY not moving.

Oh wait it was Kim who said it. Never mind :biggrin:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 29, 2016, 01:11:13 PM
Jeri Ryan is a great actor.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on August 29, 2016, 01:21:10 PM
Body and Soul never worked for me, precisely because of Jeri Ryan's acting. As a comedy episode it was clear she was being over the top and I mostly just found her annoying. I've got nothing against her as 7, but when they giver her other parts to play I'm not a fan. I recall another episode where she turned all Sybil and it seemed like she was running through the list of over-the-top personalities to run through.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 29, 2016, 01:28:21 PM
I guess it also depends on who is directing...
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 29, 2016, 02:02:59 PM
I imagine The Borg must have come across a massively more powerful race before now besides Species 8472...

WE ARE THE BORG RESISTANCE IS FUTILE...

* blows up 10 Borg Cubes * you were saying ?

OH NOTHING. JUST WISH TO PASS THRU THIS AREA OF SPACE IS ALL.

unlikely.

OH.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 29, 2016, 09:26:34 PM
I prefer when shows have a good mix. I don't want nothing but story arc, because it's not realistic, and it gets monotonous.

That said, there is no justification for that dreadful baseball episode. :lol

Say what?!  I love that baseball episode!!  Damn you Blob, damn you.

Maybe it's different because you're Murican, and about the only country that can tolerate baseball, but it was just awful and pointless. It was a plot designed for a kid's Disney movie, not for Trek.

Not least in the "Body And Soul" episode where the EMH embodies 7's body.

One of my favourites. :tup Jeri Ryan did a great job copying Picardo.
I also prefer VOY to TNG.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on August 29, 2016, 09:28:20 PM
On top of the good episode, Kelinda was one of my favorite of the ST babes. Good looking gal. And compared to most ST babes, the girl was actually wearing more clothes than she was probably accustomed to as an actress.  :lol

She's hot indeed, she reminded me a lot of Sophie Turner who plays Sansa Stark in Game of Thrones.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d8/cf/21/d8cf217cb8b365e7bc8b612aa9160941.jpg)

(https://bitchmedia.org/sites/default/files/resize/u2583/sansa_stark-670x439.jpg)

But the other girl Drea, who had a much smaller role in the episode, was the one that really caught my eye, she's exactly my type.
(https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/b/b0/Drea.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060228165039&path-prefix=en)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on August 30, 2016, 04:24:24 AM
I was surprised to see Zach Galligan in Voyager.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 02, 2016, 01:25:06 PM
They aways say things like " The Ship is 5 million Kilometres away " and then they show the ships and they're right next to each other.....
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 03, 2016, 12:31:08 PM
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

An episode of Voyager where " the laws of physics have no meaning "

:o wow amazing - what happens ?!



.......





Chakotay thinks hes a boxer.


Oh for fucks sake.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 03, 2016, 01:40:14 PM
I think I remember reading in an old Hawkins paper that, and I quote "when a tattooed Native American thinks he's a boxer, all rules of physics have been forsaken."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 03, 2016, 02:15:57 PM
I was thinking the other day that in the 75,000 Light Years from the Alpha to the Delta Quadrant - there must be just one alien with a name that sounds the same as

John Smith - with all the sounds in the universe - those two must be placed together at least once :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 03, 2016, 02:22:47 PM
I was thinking the other day that in the 75,000 Light Years from the Alpha to the Delta Quadrant - there must be just one alien with a name that sounds the same as

John Smith - with all the sounds in the universe - those two must be placed together at least once :lol

Kind of like The Martian Manhunter from DC. His actual alien name (from what I know) is J'onn J'onzz, which of course sounds veeeery similar to John Jones.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 03, 2016, 04:13:26 PM
(https://imgur.com/kooDPu8.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 04, 2016, 11:24:18 AM
How About No.








* * * IN OTHER NEWS * * *


Kate Mulgrew is now starting to resemble Shatner.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrhlDCPWcAAKqmM.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Logain Ablar on September 04, 2016, 02:14:29 PM
What do you guys think of Enterprise, compared to the other series?

I'd only watched a couple of episodes when it was first aired on TV, but I've been rewatching on Netflix the last few weeks. I'm almost at the end of season 1, but TBH it has been pretty patchy. One "filler" episode with Tucker and Reid stuck in a shuttle with the air running out was particularly woeful.  ;)

Is it worth sticking with?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 04, 2016, 02:16:07 PM
What do you guys think of Enterprise, compared to the other series?

I'd only watched a couple of episodes when it was first aired on TV, but I've been rewatching on Netflix the last few weeks. I'm almost at the end of season 1, but TBH it has been pretty patchy. One "filler" episode with Tucker and Reid stuck in a shuttle with the air running out was particularly woeful.  ;)

Is it worth sticking with?

I liked Enterprise more than most. I say stick around at least through the first 3 seasons, then you can watch a few episodes of season 4 (the evil universe ones for sure). The first two seasons aren't........terrible? but they aren't really great either, and I really liked most of the 3rd season.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 04, 2016, 02:27:07 PM
SIGH........


Voyager Equinox Part 1.

As soon as Voyager's EMH activated the one on the Equinox I was like " ::) He's going to steal the mobile emitter isn't he....."


YEP. :facepalm: I wish this show wasn't so predictable at times. ***


And it's a two parter. It's going to be a long and annoying "what's wrong with the Doctor" scenario. . . . ::)

SIGH
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 04, 2016, 02:34:57 PM
***

All the aforementioned -

Someone is beaming to a shuttle !

Shut down the transporters !

I can't !

They're taking a Shuttle !

Tractor Beam !

Not Working !

Follow them !

Engines off line !

Literally Every Time...

Nothing ever works when it's needed.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 04, 2016, 07:57:00 PM
I was thinking the other day that in the 75,000 Light Years from the Alpha to the Delta Quadrant - there must be just one alien with a name that sounds the same as

John Smith - with all the sounds in the universe - those two must be placed together at least once :lol

Kind of like The Martian Manhunter from DC. His actual alien name (from what I know) is J'onn J'onzz, which of course sounds veeeery similar to John Jones.
I am actually speaking Rigelian; by an astonishing coincidence, both of our languages are exactly the same.”

It's also like Douglas Adams' Gin and Tonic phenomenon.
Quote from: The Guide
"It is a curious fact, and one to which no-one knows quite how much importance to attach, that something like 85 percent of all known worlds in the Galaxy, be they primitive or highly advanced, have invented a drink called jynnan tonyx, or gee-N'N-T'N-ix, or jinond-o-nicks, or any one of a thousand variations on this phonetic theme.

The drinks themselves are not the same, and vary between the Sivolvian ‘chinanto/mnigs’ which is ordinary water served just above room temperature, and the Gagrakackan 'tzjin-anthony-ks’ which kills cows at a hundred paces; and in fact the only one common factor between all of them, beyond the fact that their names sound the same, is that they were all invented and named before the worlds concerned made contact with any other worlds."
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 04, 2016, 11:01:14 PM
What do you guys think of Enterprise, compared to the other series?

I'd only watched a couple of episodes when it was first aired on TV, but I've been rewatching on Netflix the last few weeks. I'm almost at the end of season 1, but TBH it has been pretty patchy. One "filler" episode with Tucker and Reid stuck in a shuttle with the air running out was particularly woeful.  ;)

Is it worth sticking with?

I liked Enterprise more than most. I say stick around at least through the first 3 seasons, then you can watch a few episodes of season 4 (the evil universe ones for sure). The first two seasons aren't........terrible? but they aren't really great either, and I really liked most of the 3rd season.

That. S2 is much the same as S1 in terms of consistency and quality. They changed things up for S3, and imo it's stronger than the rest and worth watching. Enterprise fans seem to consider S4 good, but overall I didn't like it. The mirror universe double episode is one to check out though. And don't watch the finale. Just don't. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 04, 2016, 11:04:12 PM
What do you guys think of Enterprise, compared to the other series?

I'd only watched a couple of episodes when it was first aired on TV, but I've been rewatching on Netflix the last few weeks. I'm almost at the end of season 1, but TBH it has been pretty patchy. One "filler" episode with Tucker and Reid stuck in a shuttle with the air running out was particularly woeful.  ;)

Is it worth sticking with?

I liked Enterprise more than most. I say stick around at least through the first 3 seasons, then you can watch a few episodes of season 4 (the evil universe ones for sure). The first two seasons aren't........terrible? but they aren't really great either, and I really liked most of the 3rd season.

That. S2 is much the same as S1 in terms of consistency and quality. They changed things up for S3, and imo it's stronger than the rest and worth watching. Enterprise fans seem to consider S4 good, but overall I didn't like it. The mirror universe double episode is one to check out though. And don't watch the finale. Just don't. :lol

Oh god, ,do NOT watch the finale. Unless you're into being pissed on.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 04, 2016, 11:09:54 PM
I remember thinking people were overreacting about how bad the finale was, and thinking "how bad could it be?" Then I watched it. I've now repressed the experience entirely, leaving only the feeling of disappointment and anger.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 04, 2016, 11:26:34 PM
I still maintain the theory that the writers were really pissed off about whatever and wrote that finale to be a huge middle finger to everybody.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 04, 2016, 11:30:45 PM
:lol
In some ways, I think their intention was for it to be a sendoff to Trek in general rather than just Enterprise, but they just went the wrong way about it in every regard. It was a spit in the face to the Enterprise cast.

Or maybe they didn't care and was a huge middle finger to everybody.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Logain Ablar on September 05, 2016, 02:19:50 AM

That. S2 is much the same as S1 in terms of consistency and quality. They changed things up for S3, and imo it's stronger than the rest and worth watching. Enterprise fans seem to consider S4 good, but overall I didn't like it. The mirror universe double episode is one to check out though. And don't watch the finale. Just don't. :lol

Oh god, ,do NOT watch the finale. Unless you're into being pissed on.

 :lol I'll consider that fair warning..
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 05, 2016, 09:13:50 AM
Now I want to watch it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 05, 2016, 09:17:28 AM
You really don't. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 06, 2016, 08:47:13 AM
OK, so I caught season 4 episodes "Reunion", "Data's Day", "The Nth Degree", "Qpid", and "Redemption Pt. 1".  The increase in average quality is remarkable, especially from seasons 1 & 2.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Progmetty on September 06, 2016, 09:11:52 PM
Thought to give you guys a break from my newbie noise heh
Just watched By Any Other Name, loved it. So much real tension in this episode, especially when they thought to self destruct. A couple of firsts for me:
- Kirk stood there and witnessed the cold blooded execution of an unarmed crew member, Yeoman Thompson. A moment that felt like it should be crushing but Shatner failed to make it work. Still though, it was something.
- Red shirt Denzel Washington A. Had a relatively big speaking role. B. Was a more than a decent actor. C. Did not die. I also think this might have been the first black guy in a red shirt(could be wrong).
- The gang tries several solutions to get out of the dilemma and fail, usually the second thing works heh

This could have made it into a top 5 list up to the scene where all the crew member have been turned into the little cubes and only Kirk, Spock, Bones and Scotty remain. Then it took a down turn once the highly intelligent creatures became ridiculously gullible. I paused at the scene where they were eating at the mess hall and told my wife "there's only 10 minutes left and they're super beat, the rest of this episode is gonna offer a silly resolution to the plot" :lol
I still enjoyed it a lot overall.
Oh and
Quote
Kirk: I don't usually go around beating up beautiful women.
Kelinda: Why not?
Kirk: Well, there are better things for men and women to do.
Kelinda: Like what?
Me: :neverusethis:
This was always one of my favorites.

One thing I forgot to mention was a spectacular first in this episode:
CONTINUITY!!!!!
Kirk refers to the time they were locked up in A Taste of Armageddon and how Spock used his Vulcan mind trick to free them.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 06, 2016, 10:56:12 PM
Don't get used to it. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 08, 2016, 05:34:26 AM
To commemorate today being the 50th anniversary of the first episode of Star Trek airing, I rewatched The Man Trap.
The basic elements hadn't quite meshed together yet, with the main trio not having much dynamic at this stage, although the characters are there. Interestingly, of the four crewmen to die, none were wearing red shirts. It had some notable moments of the '60s sexism, and the basic plot was fairly standard 50s/60s scifi fare, more of a monster of the week rather than dealing with it in the Trek way. The moral discussion was there in parts, but the outcome didn't give that a payoff.
I never watched TOS in proper order since it didn't really matter, so it's interesting seeing it fresh like people did at the time rather than inbetween other episodes. I'm even contemplating rewatching every episode on the 50th anniversary of their original airing date.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 08, 2016, 07:12:02 AM
"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra"
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 08, 2016, 08:31:48 AM
To commemorate today being the 50th anniversary of the first episode of Star Trek airing, I rewatched The Man Trap.
The basic elements hadn't quite meshed together yet, with the main trio not having much dynamic at this stage, although the characters are there. Interestingly, of the four crewmen to die, none were wearing red shirts. It had some notable moments of the '60s sexism, and the basic plot was fairly standard 50s/60s scifi fare, more of a monster of the week rather than dealing with it in the Trek way. The moral discussion was there in parts, but the outcome didn't give that a payoff.
I never watched TOS in proper order since it didn't really matter, so it's interesting seeing it fresh like people did at the time rather than inbetween other episodes. I'm even contemplating rewatching every episode on the 50th anniversary of their original airing date.
There was a moral component to the Man Trap? I don't recall such a thing.

I tried watching the Lights of Zetar the other night and couldn't stomach it. Always one of my least favorite episodes, and anytime Scotty has a love interest it's just completely awful. Dude's worse that Geordi in that regard.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 08, 2016, 08:41:38 AM
To commemorate today being the 50th anniversary of the first episode of Star Trek airing, I rewatched The Man Trap.
The basic elements hadn't quite meshed together yet, with the main trio not having much dynamic at this stage, although the characters are there. Interestingly, of the four crewmen to die, none were wearing red shirts. It had some notable moments of the '60s sexism, and the basic plot was fairly standard 50s/60s scifi fare, more of a monster of the week rather than dealing with it in the Trek way. The moral discussion was there in parts, but the outcome didn't give that a payoff.
I never watched TOS in proper order since it didn't really matter, so it's interesting seeing it fresh like people did at the time rather than inbetween other episodes. I'm even contemplating rewatching every episode on the 50th anniversary of their original airing date.
There was a moral component to the Man Trap? I don't recall such a thing.

They touched upon it while sitting around the table, but it amounted to nothing, so not really, no.

I have literally zero recollection of The Lights of Zetar, even though I have it and would have watched it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 08, 2016, 11:07:29 AM
Watched TMT working in the shop earlier. Actually a pretty good episode, but with the typical flaws. It was never established if the salt vampire could physically change appearances or only make people think they see something different. Also, it was a pretty fucking stupid animal. One thing I hadn't remembered was Kirk's rather blunt but very accurate assessment of Crater's motivation:

Quote
You saving the last of its kind or has this become Crater's private heaven, here on this planet? This thing becomes wife, lover, best friend, wise man, fool, idol, slave. Isn't a bad life to have everyone in the universe at your beck and call, and you win all the arguments.
If there's an actual moral question it'd be whether or not to have ended this symbiotic relationship. Of course the creature essentially suicided-by-cop at the end, negating the question.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2016, 11:14:08 AM



* * * * * * Question Time!!! * * * * * *


What do you think is the greatest single episode ever from any series ?

All Good Things ?

Blink Of An Eye ?

Duet ?

Spock's Brain ? :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 08, 2016, 11:24:43 AM
Watched TMT working in the shop earlier. Actually a pretty good episode, but with the typical flaws. It was never established if the salt vampire could physically change appearances or only make people think they see something different.

It appeared as three different characters simultaneously to McCoy/Kirk/Guy at the start (which was pretty dumb of it if it wanted to conceal its true nature), and they established it had the ability to connect to people's minds to read what they wanted to see, so it makes sense that it's only psychological. I had wondered the same thing though.
It's a slightly better episode than I remember first time (not by much), but I think it's a bit better than many of the ones that follow it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Orbert on September 08, 2016, 11:42:22 AM
Yeah, I think the beast we saw at the end was its true appearance but up until that point, we'd only seen what it looked like through the eyes of various characters.  We just didn't know that at first.  But when McCoy saw a much younger Nancy than the "more realistic" aged Nancy that Kirk saw, that was our clue.

When it went to feed, it dropped the mind games and we saw what it really looked like.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2016, 12:05:34 PM
Read TMT.

Thought of The Most Toys.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 08, 2016, 12:30:38 PM
It appeared as three different characters simultaneously to McCoy/Kirk/Guy at the start (which was pretty dumb of it if it wanted to conceal its true nature), and they established it had the ability to connect to people's minds to read what they wanted to see, so it makes sense that it's only psychological. I had wondered the same thing though.
It's a slightly better episode than I remember first time (not by much), but I think it's a bit better than many of the ones that follow it.

Yeah, I think the beast we saw at the end was its true appearance but up until that point, we'd only seen what it looked like through the eyes of various characters.  We just didn't know that at first.  But when McCoy saw a much younger Nancy than the "more realistic" aged Nancy that Kirk saw, that was our clue.

When it went to feed, it dropped the mind games and we saw what it really looked like.
And that's certainly the way I figure it. The first scene make is such. At the same time when it's wandering around as McCoy it appears the same to everybody. That doesn't preclude the psychological explanation, but it just looks like a physical manifestation to the viewer.


Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 08, 2016, 12:46:34 PM



* * * * * * Question Time!!! * * * * * *


What do you think is the greatest single episode ever from any series ?

All Good Things ?

Blink Of An Eye ?

Duet ?

Spock's Brain ? :neverusethis:
Tough call. And interesting a question that hasn't actually been posed here a dozen times. Far out.

Off the top of my head I'd probably go with In the Pale Moonlight, but there are certainly rivals. I'm probably blurring the line between the best and my favorite. When I think of the best, all of them really show up in DS9. Duet, The Visitor (quite possibly the high-water mark), ItPM, and Rocks and Shoals.

For TOS, I always found The City on the Edge of Forever overrated, until one day I noticed how good an episode it really was. After that, maybe the Doomsday Machine.

All Good things gets bumped down out of contention in my book because of a previously unnoticed plot hole the size of delta quadrant. Of the TNG episodes, they come down to Picard-centric ones, and Tapestry rates pretty high for me.

A darkhourse contender would be Similitude. The only Enterprise episode that ranks with the greats. Probably falls short, though. Haven't seen it in ages.

VOY probably comes down to Blink of an Eye. Damn near a perfect episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2016, 01:25:46 PM
The plot hole in All Good Things doesn't bother me.  Time Travel stories always have a metric ton of problems if you sit down and think about them.

Just like in Back To The Future. Not a lot in the movie holds up to logic but you don't care because the movie around it it so perfect.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2016, 01:56:53 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr2zVQkXYAA5iOR.jpg:small)






HAPPY 50TH STAR TREK. #LLAP
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 08, 2016, 02:06:00 PM
What's LLAP?


Also I think I'll watch The Cage or something tonight.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2016, 02:09:12 PM
What's LLAP ?

 :eek :eek :eek

Hand over your com badge AT ONCE !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 08, 2016, 02:10:13 PM
Just googled it. I really don't like acronyms.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2016, 02:13:08 PM
Nor me. But I hate Backronyms even more.

Or when people say an acronym and then immediately tell you what it stands for :lol


" dude this car has ABS . Automatic Braking System. "

:lol

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 08, 2016, 02:15:09 PM
You know what I don't hate? Star Trek.


Speaking of which, anyone have any idea when we'll get some news on that new show? They really seem to be taking their time with it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2016, 02:15:32 PM
" Tinker , Tenor, Doctor, Spy "


:rollin What an episode. Hilarious intro.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2016, 02:16:32 PM
You know what I don't hate? Star Trek.


Speaking of which, anyone have any idea when we'll get some news on that new show? They really seem to be taking their time with it.

They start shooting in September so news should trickle out.

Meanwhile check out

www.TrekCore.com and www.TrekMovie.com for more !
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 08, 2016, 02:25:45 PM
Ohhhhh cool! Didn't know about those places.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: DragonAttack on September 08, 2016, 03:27:06 PM
Ah, 'The Man Trap'.  Not the first episode, but the first one aired.  I do remember its original telecast, the fact that my Mom let me watch it at such a tender age, and that we shared most of TOS shows together.  Our last Trek moment together was watching 'The Wrath of Khan' when it aired on ABC a few weeks before her passing.

I suddenly have a craving for something salty......
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 08, 2016, 03:29:19 PM
THESE PRETZELS ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY !!!




(https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6zqo6H8Bq1rwacvuo1_1280.png)
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: DragonAttack on September 08, 2016, 04:45:21 PM
I saw some weird thing on Decades TV...best moments of all the Treks, Jason 'hosted' as Kirk with Spock and McCoy clones.  Watched about five minutes.  No idea when it was made.  Not the best by any means.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 08, 2016, 10:47:35 PM
Off the top of my head I'd probably go with In the Pale Moonlight, but there are certainly rivals. I'm probably blurring the line between the best and my favorite. When I think of the best, all of them really show up in DS9. Duet, The Visitor (quite possibly the high-water mark), ItPM, and Rocks and Shoals.

For TOS, I always found The City on the Edge of Forever overrated, until one day I noticed how good an episode it really was. After that, maybe the Doomsday Machine.

All Good things gets bumped down out of contention in my book because of a previously unnoticed plot hole the size of delta quadrant. Of the TNG episodes, they come down to Picard-centric ones, and Tapestry rates pretty high for me.

A darkhourse contender would be Similitude. The only Enterprise episode that ranks with the greats. Probably falls short, though. Haven't seen it in ages.

VOY probably comes down to Blink of an Eye. Damn near a perfect episode.

All great choices.
The City on the Edge of Forever has always been my favourite TOS episode, as cliche a choice as it is. But I'm a sucker for time travel.
It's been too long since I've watched all of TNG to choose a favourite.
For DS9, I'd have to agree with In the Pale Moonlight or The Visitor.
Blink of an Eye is definitely one of my absolute favourites from Voyager, although Timeless and Year of Hell would probably nudge it out for me.
For Enterprise, Similitude probably wins. It's one of the few Enterprise episodes with some emotion to it. The only other real contenders for me would be maybe E^2 (again, time travel), and In a Mirror Darkly. Not a lot to contend with.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 08, 2016, 10:50:15 PM
I still hold that if they did a whole season of Year of Hell (which I believe was the original idea) it may have been the best season of any Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 08, 2016, 10:54:10 PM
It would have been awesome, but I still love what we got with the double episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on September 09, 2016, 01:43:59 AM
Just caught QPid on TV (The Robin Hood TNG episode).

You kind of wonder what the Hell Star Fleet command must think when this get the mission log from the Enterprise based on this episode.

Imagine some ensign telling some Admiral the various things that have happened to their crews during the week based off the mission logs....

USS Excalibur : Spent the week cataloguing gaseous anomalies.

USS Drake : Transferred medical supplies.

USS Enterprise : Got transported to Robin Hood world by a crazy God like alien, then crew got devolved into animals, then Sherlock Holmes mortal enemy Moriarty tried to take over the ship, yet again.   Oh and the ships Doctor got sexually assaulted by a candle.

USS Bradbury : Shore leave on Risa.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 09, 2016, 08:26:39 AM
I always thought the Voyager crew's debriefing upon their return would have been a hoot. It's 7 years of Enterprise type logs but all at once.

And then my mischievous godson turned engineering into a dance club.
Wait, you have a godson from the delta quadrant?
Yeah. He's a Q.
You're godmother to a Q?
Yeah. I set one up with his girlfriend at the battle of Gettysburg.
Pennsylvania?
I guess they thought it was better than a desolate rest stop.
I see. Moving right along.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 09, 2016, 08:38:32 AM
That's one of the big reasons that Endgame wasn't a satisfying ending for me. Besides of course the emotional moments reconnecting with their families, I really wanted to see Starfleet's reaction to some of this stuff.

Hey we're back, don't mind the Borg on board, she's with us. Yes, that's our EMH. He's mobile now thanks to a future holoemitter. Oops, just let me disable the ablative armour on this ship we also got from the future. Oh and please don't arrest the Maquis guys. They're my first officer and chief engineer.

Yeah, I know they had some contact to Starfleet with that communications array, but it's not the same.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 09, 2016, 09:23:45 AM
That's one of the big reasons that Endgame wasn't a satisfying ending for me. Besides of course the emotional moments reconnecting with their families, I really wanted to see Starfleet's reaction to some of this stuff.

Hey we're back, don't mind the Borg on board, she's with us. Yes, that's our EMH. He's mobile now thanks to a future holoemitter. Oops, just let me disable the ablative armour on this ship we also got from the future. Oh and please don't arrest the Maquis guys. They're my first officer and chief engineer.

Yeah, I know they had some contact to Starfleet with that communications array, but it's not the same.
Yeah, that's where we disagree. That would have been another episode and perhaps another two parter. DS9 could do it because they'd been wrapping things up for the last 5 or so episodes. Really, the DS9 finale was Dogs of War and the first half of WYLB, with the second hour being the epilogue. I suppose VOY could have spent the last month setting up Endgame, thus leaving the second hour for what you suggest, but I actually liked the premise that they used. So I'm fine with what they did. If you can't show it properly, let the viewer do it on their own.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 09, 2016, 09:35:16 AM
That's one of the big reasons that Endgame wasn't a satisfying ending for me. Besides of course the emotional moments reconnecting with their families, I really wanted to see Starfleet's reaction to some of this stuff.

Hey we're back, don't mind the Borg on board, she's with us. Yes, that's our EMH. He's mobile now thanks to a future holoemitter. Oops, just let me disable the ablative armour on this ship we also got from the future. Oh and please don't arrest the Maquis guys. They're my first officer and chief engineer.

Yeah, I know they had some contact to Starfleet with that communications array, but it's not the same.
Yeah, that's where we disagree. That would have been another episode and perhaps another two parter. DS9 could do it because they'd been wrapping things up for the last 5 or so episodes. Really, the DS9 finale was Dogs of War and the first half of WYLB, with the second hour being the epilogue. I suppose VOY could have spent the last month setting up Endgame, thus leaving the second hour for what you suggest, but I actually liked the premise that they used. So I'm fine with what they did. If you can't show it properly, let the viewer do it on their own.


You're right, it would definitely have required more time to do, because Endgame was already pretty packed, and besides the issue of closure for the series, I think it worked very well as an episode as is. Great episode, just not a great finale for me. I really wanted that payoff after all they'd been through.
DS9 on the other hand finished off the series perfectly, better than any of the rest. I liked that it left so much time to wrap up everyone's individual arc. But that was a whole different animal.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 09, 2016, 10:01:38 AM
And yet, another possibility is that 30 seconds after Janeway says "we're home" and the credits start to role, Captain Braxton shows up in the Relativity and says "nice try. A for effort, but sorry. No dice." and sends the right back to where they were two hours earlier.  :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 09, 2016, 10:02:21 AM
Voyagers complete lack of wrap up in their episodes drives me barmy.

One episode I watched the other day was CRYING OUT for a wrap up or just ONE MORE SCENE.

But no - it was basically - that's that sorted out - CUT TO CREDITS.

I don't remember TNG ever doing a cut to credits once everything was sorted. There was pretty much ALWAYS a final scene after that.




EDIT : Imagine if Back To The Future had cut to credits the moment the Delorean disappeared from 1955. How frustrating would that be ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 09, 2016, 10:08:41 AM
And yet, another possibility is that 30 seconds after Janeway says "we're home" and the credits start to role, Captain Braxton shows up in the Relativity and says "nice try. A for effort, but sorry. No dice." and sends the right back to where they were two hours earlier.  :lol

:lol Yeah, I thinking about that too.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 09, 2016, 10:11:08 AM
PLOT HOLE

Surely Captain Braxton isn't unfamiliar with the idea of a multiverse ? The idea that anything can happen in an infinite number of alternate scenarios ?

How does he know that the reality of Voyager getting back to Earth via a Borg Conduit isn't the correct one for *this* universe ?

The very act of having a time altering spaceship surely defies the "temporal prime directive" all on it's own ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 09, 2016, 10:13:26 AM
The timeship doesn't defy the temporal prime directive, because it's not there to meddle with time, only to prevent others from doing so. They know which reality is the correct one, because it's the one that doesn't involve others screwing with time.

Of course it's time travel, so it never holds up entirely, but it's not difficult to grasp in theory.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 09, 2016, 10:14:29 AM
The timeship doesn't defy the temporal prime directive, because it's not there to meddle with time, only to prevent others from doing so. They know which reality is the correct one, because it's the one that doesn't involve others screwing with time.

Of course it's time travel, so it never holds up entirely, but it's not difficult to grasp in theory.


Also - option three : SHADDAP YO FACE ITS SCI FI :lol



Also I like that scene in one of the Red Letter Media reviews that basically says that counting every time travel story on all of star trek - history has been changed millions of times.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 09, 2016, 10:15:53 AM
Scifi makes me do anything but shut up my face. :lol :blob:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 09, 2016, 11:38:24 AM
I've downloaded Star trek Online for PS4 as it's free. I'm Captain Oakes of the USS Kotow.

It's a Miranda Class but it's enormous :lol

not like Reliant.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 09, 2016, 11:48:13 AM
Ferengi: Commander Federation vessel Kowtow. Lower your shields and prepare to be boarded!
Captain: Yes sir. Right away sir.
Helmsman: Ah, man, this shit again? I'm requesting a transfer to the USS Go Fuck Yourself. They don't surrender every week.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 09, 2016, 11:53:03 AM
USS Kotow - this is the Talaxian vessel Mer......

Capt. Oakes : FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE :angry:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 09, 2016, 12:00:47 PM
 :omg: Captain ???

:angry: FUCK TALAXIANS. FUCK THEM ALL TO SHA KA REE !!!!!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 09, 2016, 04:47:30 PM
The episode The Voyager Conspiracy. I wonder if they planned moments ahead of time or just wrote it around what had happened.

Pretty good writing if they managed to write it around previous episodes.

The episode " Shattered " is pretty cool too. Having crew-members from different time periods team up.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: ReaperKK on September 09, 2016, 10:07:45 PM
I'm back at trying to watch all the Star Trek episodes and i just saw the corobite maneuver. Did they really think the kid wasn't cheesy at the end.

Either way I'm really enjoying TOS this time around whereas the first time it was a painful chore to get though.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 09, 2016, 10:09:48 PM
I don't think cheesy was a problem for TOS. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 09, 2016, 10:19:47 PM
I'm back at trying to watch all the Star Trek episodes and i just saw the corobite maneuver. Did they really think the kid wasn't cheesy at the end.

Either way I'm really enjoying TOS this time around whereas the first time it was a painful chore to get though.
I reckon if they couldn't afford Great Space Alien they figured they'd just go with Creepy Fuck instead. Clint Howard always qualifies for that role. Regardless of his suckiness, that was always one of my favorite episodes. Good story to kick off the series and it does well to establish K/S/M. Particularly with McCoy really ripping into Kirk in uncharacteristic fashion. 
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 09, 2016, 10:22:18 PM

The episode " Shattered " is pretty cool too. Having crew-members from different time periods team up.
My recollection was that it was a wonderful premise with terrible dialogue. After watching it over dinner this evening I find I was right on the money. Wonderful premise. Awful writing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 12, 2016, 06:59:13 AM
Wil Wheaton hated Beyond but thought STID was the best one.

😂😂 Shut Up Wesley.

"Jaylah was just a damsel for Kirk to save". Err. No. She helped them the entire time....?

Kirk helped Jaylah like one time after she'd fended off the aliens. And that was only to get beamed back.

Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 12, 2016, 07:01:44 AM
I thought Jayla was a strong and capable character, without being laid on too thick. She was believable. Usually I don't like that kind of character, but it was done well. I'd actually like to see her character again.

Shut up Wesley.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 12, 2016, 07:35:20 AM
Unification Parts 1 & 2.  That was fun.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 12, 2016, 09:30:40 AM
I thought Jayla was a strong and capable character, without being laid on too thick. She was believable. Usually I don't like that kind of character, but it was done well. I'd actually like to see her character again.

Shut up Wesley.

Wil Wheaton loved STID despite having many many reservations about it. He didn't like the cold open. He didn't like x. He didn't like y.

He didn't like the Carol Marcus underwear scene - which I agree on at least. It was utterly pointless.

Yet he thought it was the best Trek.

And Beyond has more problems ?

Yeah I don't think so.

For one thing - the script in Beyond doesn't have glaring errors that don't support the whole film.




EDIT : Oh and he stooped to calling Star Trek Beyond " Fast & Furious In Space ".

REALLY ?

:facepalm:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on September 14, 2016, 05:33:49 AM
Beyond has died a death at the Box Office - in the US in particular it's along way down on the previous two entries.

I think it's a very forgettable movie.  2 months on from seeing it and I'm struggling to remember much about it aside from a few key points.  Villains name... erm?  and his villainous plot...yeah...?     I actually ST2009 and Darkness - not a popular opinion I guess.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 05:37:22 AM
Quote from: soupytwist
   I actually ST2009 and Darkness - not a popular opinion I guess.


You actually the whole thing ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 05:38:34 AM
Beyond has been out just over a month and is on $320m worldwide.

ST09 was in the cinemas for 5 months before it made $385m

It has a Japanese opening in October. It will probably be ok when it's all totted up.



it's not a huge flop like Nemesis was - which cost $60m and made back $67m
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on September 14, 2016, 06:02:09 AM
Quote from: soupytwist
   I actually ST2009 and Darkness - not a popular opinion I guess.


You actually the whole thing ?

Yeah I'm the whole Star Trek Kelvin Universe - you should see our version of TNG.  Here's a little taster - Ryker starts with a beard!!
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 06:06:46 AM
:getoffmylawn: ABRAAAAAAAAAAAMS !!!!!!





IN truth - i think it sucks that Beyond isn't doing very well. I thought it would be the most profitable. It's by far the best of the Kelvin Universe movies.


By far.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 14, 2016, 06:11:53 AM
And with Beyond doing worse, they'll think that they're better / more profitable with Abrams' involvement, and probably push back even harder with mindless action and non-sensical plot. Hooray!
I'm not really surprised that the slightly more Trekky movie has done worse. The new fans they've gained are not Trek fans.


On a related note, maybe it's time to update the sig, Kotowboy. :lol
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 06:20:29 AM
Best does not equate to box office.

Never mind what Chino says :chino:
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on September 14, 2016, 06:21:50 AM
And with Beyond doing worse, they'll think that they're better / more profitable with Abrams' involvement, and probably push back even harder with mindless action and non-sensical plot. Hooray!
I'm not really surprised that the slightly more Trekky movie has done worse. The new fans they've gained are not Trek fans.

I think Beyond had the same amount of mindless action as the other two and barely had a plot to be non-sensical with (and yet it still managed to make no sense).   I don't think there is anything remotely more Trekky about it.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 06:23:20 AM
It's vastly more Trekky than the last one.


I'm hoping that Paramount will green light a 4th movie but will reduce the budget to like $100m so they don't have to focus on action and stunts to make their money back.

If it's true what JJ said that Chris Hemsworth will return as George Kirk - there may not be a revenge plot for once.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 14, 2016, 06:31:27 AM
And with Beyond doing worse, they'll think that they're better / more profitable with Abrams' involvement, and probably push back even harder with mindless action and non-sensical plot. Hooray!
I'm not really surprised that the slightly more Trekky movie has done worse. The new fans they've gained are not Trek fans.

I think Beyond had the same amount of mindless action as the other two and barely had a plot to be non-sensical with (and yet it still managed to make no sense).   I don't think there is anything remotely more Trekky about it.

It was a lot more Trekky. There was a lot more canon woven in there and many subtle nods that would go right over the average person's head, use of the technology that much more consistent with existing canon instead of making up random shit like transwarp beaming only for the sake of keeping the weak plot moving without any real thought, and it captured more of the dynamic between the characters that was either lacking or incredibly contrived and not earned in the previous movies, and more of the Trek principles were included.

Yeah, it still had some stupid mindless action shit, like killing the hive ships, but the previous movies had a lot more mindless stuff happening only for the sake of eye candy, and their plots made a hell of a lot less sense. Not a single thing about Into Darkness made sense at all. At. All. The plot of Beyond held together quite well overall, with my only major criticism being the weak motivation and lacking backstory of the main antagonist, but that's par for the course for the Trek reboots. Nero is perhaps the weakest villian of any Trek movie, and reboot Khan was a huge a spit in the face to the franchise.

Don't get me wrong, none of these movies are without their faults, but it's still no comparison imo.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 06:38:04 AM
Yeah In Beyond there's no Cadet Kirk being bumped up to first officer or 300 year old Khan designing

Futuristic starships.

Nothing that made you go :/ what ??
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on September 14, 2016, 07:10:49 AM
Yeah In Beyond there's no Cadet Kirk being bumped up to first officer or 300 year old Khan designing

Futuristic starships.

Nothing that made you go :/ what ??

The Beastie Boys.
Jump Starting a Starship.
Those little dog aliens.
Scottys companion sneezing acid to unlock a door panel.
The Ship flip.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on September 14, 2016, 07:12:25 AM
Yeah In Beyond there's no Cadet Kirk being bumped up to first officer

I've downloaded Star trek Online for PS4 as it's free. I'm Captain Oakes of the USS Kotow.

What happened at the end of your first mission?  ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 09:09:39 AM
Yeah In Beyond there's no Cadet Kirk being bumped up to first officer or 300 year old Khan designing

Futuristic starships.

Nothing that made you go :/ what ??

The Beastie Boys.
Jump Starting a Starship.
Those little dog aliens.
Scottys companion sneezing acid to unlock a door panel.
The Ship flip.

You know this is based on STAR TREK the original series ?

That series is DUMB.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: soupytwist on September 14, 2016, 09:19:45 AM
Yeah In Beyond there's no Cadet Kirk being bumped up to first officer or 300 year old Khan designing

Futuristic starships.

Nothing that made you go :/ what ??

The Beastie Boys.
Jump Starting a Starship.
Those little dog aliens.
Scottys companion sneezing acid to unlock a door panel.
The Ship flip.

You know this is based on STAR TREK the original series ?

That series is DUMB.

Yeah that's kindoff my point.  There is nothing really all that different between the 3 new movies, in my opinion nothing more Trekky about Beyond - they all are action movies with some plot issues!   Star Trek at it's best has an emotional core, something to invest in - these movies haven't captured this at all, yet.   I guess I'm more disapointed with Beyond because Pegg was making all the right noises in interviews about how this was more Trekky - yet it's just more of the same.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 14, 2016, 10:21:59 AM
Last night I caught "Ethics" and "Cause and Effect".  Good stuff.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 10:27:31 AM
Is Cause & Effect the one with the Reliant looking ship that gets stuck in that time loop captained by Frasier Crane ?
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: hefdaddy42 on September 14, 2016, 10:37:33 AM
Is Cause & Effect the one with the Reliant looking ship that gets stuck in that time loop captained by Frasier Crane ?
Yes.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 14, 2016, 11:01:34 AM
Wasn't Ethics the one where Worf broke his back and sadly didn't die? If it's what I'm thinking of, I almost always avoid episodes that feature Alexander in more than a cameo role.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 11:03:26 AM
Kids in Star Trek that were more annoying than Wes Crusher in no particular order :

1. Alexander Roshenko

2. Nog

3. Jake Sisko

4. Any time a kid was a main cast member in an episode. Not least that RoboCop 2 kid one who wanted to be an android. - i'm thinking especially of that horrifically irritating Maquis kid

who tried to kill Chakotay. Played by the same actor as Nog and played him the exact same.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 14, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
I don't have such a problem with Nog and Jake. Yes, they started off annoying, as kids are, but unlike most other kids, they were given actual developmental arcs. They didn't just find some magic ability to experience math transdimensionally or whatever, they had actual growth and development. Where they both ended up was incredible from where they started.

Alexander on the other hand.....ugh.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: BlobVanDam on September 14, 2016, 11:08:48 AM
I don't have such a problem with Nog and Jake. Yes, they started off annoying, as kids are, but unlike most other kids, they were given actual developmental arcs. They didn't just find some magic ability to experience math transdimensionally or whatever, they had actual growth and development. Where they both ended up was incredible from where they started.

Alexander on the other hand.....ugh.

Yep. I never had a problem with Jake. Nog was occasionally annoying, but his character grew, and he had some good episodes too. Worf's kid was painful though, even in DS9.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 11:12:52 AM
Wasn't the actor who played Alexander really fucked in in real life after Star Trek ?

Typical story - arrested for all sorts of stuff kinda thing.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: El Barto on September 14, 2016, 11:23:33 AM
Like four different kids played Alexander, and one of them is a career felon.

I liked Nog. Even when he was a young dipshit he was alright. And his development was very good.

The only thing that annoyed me about Nog was a typical ST phenomenon, where all principle cast members go on to become a captain. Captain LaForge. Captain Kim. Captain Crusher. Captain Nog was what kept The Visitor from being a perfect episode. Who knows, it's entirely possible that he was destined to be the next Picard, but based on what we knew about him it seemed silly and contrived.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Kotowboy on September 14, 2016, 11:26:30 AM
He already had the bald head down.
Title: Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
Post by: Adami on September 14, 2016, 11:27:57 AM
Like four different kids played Alexander, and one of them is a career felon.

I liked Nog. Even when he was a young dipshit he was alright. And his development was very good.

The only thing that annoyed me about Nog was a typical ST phenomenon, where all principle cast members go on to become a captain. Captain LaForge. Captain Kim. Captain Crusher. Captain Nog was what kept The Visitor from being a perfect episode. Who knows, it's entirely possible that he was destined to be the next Picard, but based on what we knew about him it seemed silly and contrived.

See I always interpreted that as a subtle way of telling the audience what happened to the federation.

They go to war with Dominion (or someone else after) and without Hawk, they get completely decimated. Eventually they kind of win, but have suffered SUCH losses, that the they lost basically all of their good leaders/captains. But they need people to captain ships, and Nog was literally one of few people who was able to do so...kind of.... So making Nog a captain was their way of showing that the federation had essentially been decimated.

Great story welling.  :xbones