DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[peacfulsedation]

We don't really use the term 'fired' in Australia, we use the slang 'sacked.'  Being sacked means you're a piece of shit who everyone hates and you're a lazy useless fuck at doing your job.  Or you turn up to work drunk all the time, hit on the females or abuse the boss.........

I think using the term fired for the situation is harsh as it's not like MM was putting in poor performances, turning up to sessions drunk, missing sessions, punched another band member or was doing anything in his personal life that may bring the bands reputation into question.

I guess another term that could be thrown around is being made redundant?  That usually means in regards to the position and why the employee gets 'let go', but he as an employee was pretty much being made redundant.

I dunno, I don't think it was ever something the band wanted to really do.  If JP and MP never sniffed each other out again, the band would be preparing their next album with MM happy as fuck.  It's a shitty situation all round.  I think we get the basic idea of it all and it's just one of those shitty situations in life.

G'day mate!

I'm Ozzie too! Another term we commonly use here in Australia is "been made redundant"......  Which I agree with you!

Well that fits perfectly in this situation! MP came back, so MM's position is redundant!  - which sucks because I would have wanted to have 2 drummers if its was just me. MM can be the click track and MP can be the "filler-guy".... even if it was just a gimmick... "Hey guys, check this band out with 2 mind-blowing drummers!" - that would fill arenas I reckon.

I digress... yes... Per Wolfking - I recommend the use of the word "Redundant" MM was made redundant. Not negative or positive. Just neutral.

Cheers

[Progmaniac1988]

I thought maybe after ignoring this post for 2 weeks maybe the conversations would be back on track. Clearly I was wrong… holy shit….

[HOF]

I thought maybe after ignoring this post for 2 weeks maybe the conversations would be back on track. Clearly I was wrong… holy shit….

Seriously, it's time to get back to the click track debate.

[nobloodyname]

We don't really use the term 'fired' in Australia, we use the slang 'sacked.'  Being sacked means you're a piece of shit who everyone hates and you're a lazy useless fuck at doing your job.  Or you turn up to work drunk all the time, hit on the females or abuse the boss.........

Same in British English. I'd advise a professional translator to take care when using 'fired' ('sacked') in a translation intended for British English speakers because it carries a boat-load of negative connotation with it.

As a side note, 'being made redundant' means, at least in British English, that a position is no longer required to be filled by a company. You can't legally make a position redundant, release the employee, and then reappoint to exactly the same position. In this case, Mangini's position wasn't made redundant because the position of drummer in Dream Theater still exists (unless they're really, realllly going to surprise us!). You could argue that MP's position will be different, eg producing/merchandising/drumming, so there's a possibility Mangini's position was technically made redundant. This raises interesting (I use that word advisedly) questions itself but I'm not an employment or legal professional so I'll leave that to someone else

[Setlist Scotty]

Interesting discussion that I've been reading, and I agree that it's much better to go with "let go" - at least for now - based on what we know. But there's a couple other statements that have been made that I think fit into that same category of making assumptions.

He knew that MP wanted back in, but did not realize that the band was about to make a change.

But did MP want back in before JP made *that* call? Early on after the split, yes MP repeatedly stated that he'd go back at a moment's notice. But after about 5-7 years, he changed his tune and had written off the idea which he clearly stated in numerous interviews. Of course him going on tour with JP probably reignited his excitement at playing with JP, but that in itself doesn't mean MP wanted back in. Around that same time period, in all the interviews that JP was giving, JP was very clear that MP was not rejoining DT, so you can be sure that JP made that clear in their discussions behind the scenes if MP had perhaps started to get those thoughts. It is true that MP has made at least one or two comments about thinking it was inevitable that he would eventually rejoin DT after he patched things up with JL, but even that doesn't mean he was intent on returning to DT at that time. From what MP said at the RnR Fantasy Camp, it sounds like he got a call from JP, the topic came up with JP asking him if he hypothetically would be interested and finding out where he was at. So it doesn't sound like MP was chomping at the bit to get back into the band.

But it's clear that the band wanted Portnoy back even though they were overall satisfied with Mangini, so they informed him his duties as a drummer were no longer required.

Just playing devil's advocate - I have *zero* inside information one way or the other - but how do you know that the whole band wanted MP back? What factual statements from the band have you seen that makes it "clear"? For all we know it was JP that initiated the idea and put it out there for the rest of the band, explaining why he thought it was the right move to make and they eventually came around to the idea, even if they may not have wanted it personally. Not saying that's the case, but it's a possibility.

In both of these scenarios, it's again a situation where statements are being made based on assumptions, just like this whole thing with whether MM was fired or let go. So it's good to be careful about what we say and what we base our beliefs on, since it's easy to fill in the blanks and just as likely end up wrong as possibly being right.

[MirrorMask]

I know that the whole band wanted Portnoy back because he's back in the band 

True, the details are unknown. Was JP wearing the others down to accept his own personal preference? did JP and JR equally wanted to work with Mike again and had to strongly convince Myung and LaBrie? was Myung on board with the idea and LaBrie had to be convinced? did they basically told JLB "look bro, we all want to do this, so just suck it up and accept it? of course we don't know.

We know the final outcome, that Portnoy is back, that means that "Dream Theater", as an entity, was willing to have him back. The discussions about it and how long it took them to get there, and the level of enthusiasm and convinction of the four individual members, are of course unknown, I don't know them, we can't know them, and I don't remember reading anyone being dead certain about this specific detail.

I take the decisions from the band as a sort of "royal we". We can wonder if the whole band is in full total agreement about anything, really - do they all equally want to tour in a specific time frame rather than two months earlier or later? do they all equally want to play a specific song? do they all equally like the cover art that Hugh Syme presents to them? when Dream Theater come out with these decisions, it's because "the band" collectively agreed to them.

If in the next tour Dream Theater will play Octavarium as the encore, would it be terribly wrong to say that "Dream Theater" wanted to play the song? can I say "wow, it's nice that Dream Theater finally wanted to play the song again" without having to question if maybe it was Portnoy alone that insisted to play the song, or maybe Portnoy and Rudess, or maybe just any other combination of 3 guys that wanted to play it and 2 guys that didn't care? the final outcome is that the song is in the setlist, so the final collective decision from "Dream Theater" is to play the song.

[Rob24]

Can't wait for this discussion to pick up more steam and be spicier!

Maybe when Chrystalstars inevitably starts being abusive again, without you guys noticing

[wolfking]

I thought maybe after ignoring this post for 2 weeks maybe the conversations would be back on track. Clearly I was wrong… holy shit….

You could expand on your 11 posts then and try and steer things in a different direction if you wish.

[wolfking]

We don't really use the term 'fired' in Australia, we use the slang 'sacked.'  Being sacked means you're a piece of shit who everyone hates and you're a lazy useless fuck at doing your job.  Or you turn up to work drunk all the time, hit on the females or abuse the boss.........

I think using the term fired for the situation is harsh as it's not like MM was putting in poor performances, turning up to sessions drunk, missing sessions, punched another band member or was doing anything in his personal life that may bring the bands reputation into question.

I guess another term that could be thrown around is being made redundant?  That usually means in regards to the position and why the employee gets 'let go', but he as an employee was pretty much being made redundant.

I dunno, I don't think it was ever something the band wanted to really do.  If JP and MP never sniffed each other out again, the band would be preparing their next album with MM happy as fuck.  It's a shitty situation all round.  I think we get the basic idea of it all and it's just one of those shitty situations in life.

G'day mate!

I'm Ozzie too! Another term we commonly use here in Australia is "been made redundant"......  Which I agree with you!

Well that fits perfectly in this situation! MP came back, so MM's position is redundant!  - which sucks because I would have wanted to have 2 drummers if its was just me. MM can be the click track and MP can be the "filler-guy".... even if it was just a gimmick... "Hey guys, check this band out with 2 mind-blowing drummers!" - that would fill arenas I reckon.

I digress... yes... Per Wolfking - I recommend the use of the word "Redundant" MM was made redundant. Not negative or positive. Just neutral.

Cheers

Welcome mate!!  Always nice to have another fellow from down under on here.  What state are you in?

[Progmaniac1988]

I thought maybe after ignoring this post for 2 weeks maybe the conversations would be back on track. Clearly I was wrong… holy shit….

You could expand on your 11 posts then and try and steer things in a different direction if you wish.

All due respect bro when these conversations go full steam ahead my attempt at changing topics will be ignored. (I did try to make points about what I was hoping MP would bring to the table somewhere back in these pages that is kinda lost in the comments)

I’d love to up my posts by having a good conversation. I don’t see what theorizing about MM’s exact exit is doing. We really have nothing else to say about this. It’s pretty cut and dry. I mean if some of you guys enjoy talking about it I’m happy for you. I just have nothing more to add to this topic lol

I’d say let’s talk about where we see DT going with Portnoy. How do we think this will affect songwriting. What direction are we expecting. That’s the stuff I find fun to engage about. I for one am hoping he has some influence on vocal arrangements and helps us get a Labrie performance that makes all us fans happy. He seemed pretty involved with coming up with melodies and stuff like that on some making of videos in the past.

[wolfking]

I thought maybe after ignoring this post for 2 weeks maybe the conversations would be back on track. Clearly I was wrong… holy shit….

You could expand on your 11 posts then and try and steer things in a different direction if you wish.

All due respect bro when these conversations go full steam ahead my attempt at changing topics will be ignored. (I did try to make points about what I was hoping MP would bring to the table somewhere back in these pages that is kinda lost in the comments)

I’d love to up my posts by having a good conversation. I don’t see what theorizing about MM’s exact exit is doing. We really have nothing else to say about this. It’s pretty cut and dry.

I’d say let’s talk about where we see DT going with Portnoy. How do we think this will affect songwriting. What direction are we expecting. That’s the stuff I find fun to engage about. I for one am hoping he has some influence on vocal arrangements and helps us get a Labrie performance that makes all us fans happy. He seemed pretty involved with coming up with melodies and stuff like that on some making of videos in the past.

Hey, I agree with you, it's pretty cut and dry to me too.  We have definitely flogged the dead horse past the decomposition stage.

In relation to where they go now, it's going to be interesting and exciting.  I love the thought of James and Mike working together on melodies.  Hopefully their relationship can be repaired enough that they can both work together to get the best out of him live and in the studio.  Saying that, I've never had a problem with anything James has done in the studio.

To be honest, I have no real expectations.  I'd say personally though I'd love them to drift into more metal again over the prog, but that will go down here like a lead balloon here.

[King Postwhore]

It's the internet Progmaniac.  (Great name BTW)

Are you shocked?   

[Schurftkut]

tomorrow there will be a new Q&A with JP at NAMM, so let's hope someone who's there asks the juicy questions ;-)

[Progmaniac1988]

I thought maybe after ignoring this post for 2 weeks maybe the conversations would be back on track. Clearly I was wrong… holy shit….

You could expand on your 11 posts then and try and steer things in a different direction if you wish.

All due respect bro when these conversations go full steam ahead my attempt at changing topics will be ignored. (I did try to make points about what I was hoping MP would bring to the table somewhere back in these pages that is kinda lost in the comments)

I’d love to up my posts by having a good conversation. I don’t see what theorizing about MM’s exact exit is doing. We really have nothing else to say about this. It’s pretty cut and dry.

I’d say let’s talk about where we see DT going with Portnoy. How do we think this will affect songwriting. What direction are we expecting. That’s the stuff I find fun to engage about. I for one am hoping he has some influence on vocal arrangements and helps us get a Labrie performance that makes all us fans happy. He seemed pretty involved with coming up with melodies and stuff like that on some making of videos in the past.

Hey, I agree with you, it's pretty cut and dry to me too.  We have definitely flogged the dead horse past the decomposition stage.

In relation to where they go now, it's going to be interesting and exciting.  I love the thought of James and Mike working together on melodies.  Hopefully their relationship can be repaired enough that they can both work together to get the best out of him live and in the studio.  Saying that, I've never had a problem with anything James has done in the studio.

To be honest, I have no real expectations.  I'd say personally though I'd love them to drift into more metal again over the prog, but that will go down here like a lead balloon here.

100% agree dude. I’ve also pretty much liked all James vocals on the latest albums for the most part, but I got to say… after MP’s return it made me go on a MP era binge. I forgot how much more memorable James vocals are on those albums. I want to have his vocals stuck in my head again. More than anything I’m looking forward to his influence on writing. Also hoping we get some more metal influence! Really hoping the chemistry just clicks with the guys.

[Progmaniac1988]

It's the internet Progmaniac.  (Great name BTW)

Are you shocked?   

Thanks man, and good point lol. It’s honestly why I was off the forums for over 10 years now. The toxicity just got to me, but it’s an exciting time now, and us DT people need to stick together. So here I am lol

[nobloodyname]

Can't wait for this discussion to pick up more steam and be spicier!

Maybe when Chrystalstars inevitably starts being abusive again, without you guys noticing

Crystal's all right She's just passionate about what she knows and likes, and that's great.

[Lonk]

tomorrow there will be a new Q&A with JP at NAMM, so let's hope someone who's there asks the juicy questions ;-)

I believe MP will be in the area as well for the Metal Allegiance show. Maybe they can get together and start writing down some ideas for the new album 

[Herrick]

It's the internet Progmaniac.  (Great name BTW)

Are you shocked?   

Thanks man, and good point lol. It’s honestly why I was off the forums for over 10 years now. The toxicity just got to me, but it’s an exciting time now, and us DT people need to stick together. So here I am lol

Toxicity? I've never noticed that on this forum. This forum is extremely tame compared to places like Twatter and FaceFuck. Anyway, welcome back!

Like you, I'm also very interested in how the live vocal situation turns out now that Portnoy is back. As far as the music, I've been happy with everything except The Astonishing. I've no idea what will change with Portnoy's return. Hopefully it'll be full of goodness.

[Stadler]

I think despite the differences in how people understand some words, we're pretty much all on the same page on these two important points: 1. MM was not replaced due to performance issues or misconduct and 2. There wasn't anything JP was unhappy about with regard to MM's standing.

I would agree with that, based on what we know.   

[Stadler]

In both of these scenarios, it's again a situation where statements are being made based on assumptions, just like this whole thing with whether MM was fired or let go. So it's good to be careful about what we say and what we base our beliefs on, since it's easy to fill in the blanks and just as likely end up wrong as possibly being right.

The ONLY point I've been trying to make since day one. The ONLY point.

[Sycsa]

I thought maybe after ignoring this post for 2 weeks maybe the conversations would be back on track. Clearly I was wrong… holy shit….

Seriously, it's time to get back to the click track debate.

Gotcha!

If it's up to Mike, there will be no click: https://youtu.be/49h2BivkQ0s?si=P8sxxXYWUmr3jSLZ&t=657

[gzarruk]

tomorrow there will be a new Q&A with JP at NAMM, so let's hope someone who's there asks the juicy questions ;-)

I believe MP will be in the area as well for the Metal Allegiance show. Maybe they can get together and start writing down some ideas for the new album 

At least Jordan will also be at NAMM, but I'm pretty sure they won't start working together until they're all in the studio. Hopefully next month.

He knew that MP wanted back in, but did not realize that the band was about to make a change.

But did MP want back in before JP made *that* call? Early on after the split, yes MP repeatedly stated that he'd go back at a moment's notice. But after about 5-7 years, he changed his tune and had written off the idea which he clearly stated in numerous interviews. Of course him going on tour with JP probably reignited his excitement at playing with JP, but that in itself doesn't mean MP wanted back in. Around that same time period, in all the interviews that JP was giving, JP was very clear that MP was not rejoining DT, so you can be sure that JP made that clear in their discussions behind the scenes if MP had perhaps started to get those thoughts. It is true that MP has made at least one or two comments about thinking it was inevitable that he would eventually rejoin DT after he patched things up with JL, but even that doesn't mean he was intent on returning to DT at that time. From what MP said at the RnR Fantasy Camp, it sounds like he got a call from JP, the topic came up with JP asking him if he hypothetically would be interested and finding out where he was at. So it doesn't sound like MP was chomping at the bit to get back into the band.

Felipe Andreoli said that during his tour with SOA as their bass player, Mike already mentioned wanting to be back with DT and planning to do so. That was before his tour with JP (August vs October 2022). I don't have the exact words he used, but I'm 100% sure that interview was posted here in this thread at some point last year.

I personally don't fault MP for wanting to return and I don't think anyone should. It's a pretty normal thing to happen. He missed his OG band and wanted to be back with them. Nothing wrong there.

[Stadler]

I thought maybe after ignoring this post for 2 weeks maybe the conversations would be back on track. Clearly I was wrong… holy shit….

You could expand on your 11 posts then and try and steer things in a different direction if you wish.

All due respect bro when these conversations go full steam ahead my attempt at changing topics will be ignored. (I did try to make points about what I was hoping MP would bring to the table somewhere back in these pages that is kinda lost in the comments)

I’d love to up my posts by having a good conversation. I don’t see what theorizing about MM’s exact exit is doing. We really have nothing else to say about this. It’s pretty cut and dry. I mean if some of you guys enjoy talking about it I’m happy for you. I just have nothing more to add to this topic lol

I’d say let’s talk about where we see DT going with Portnoy. How do we think this will affect songwriting. What direction are we expecting. That’s the stuff I find fun to engage about. I for one am hoping he has some influence on vocal arrangements and helps us get a Labrie performance that makes all us fans happy. He seemed pretty involved with coming up with melodies and stuff like that on some making of videos in the past.

The one thing it's NOT (other than the outcome). 

[Stadler]

100% agree dude. I’ve also pretty much liked all James vocals on the latest albums for the most part, but I got to say… after MP’s return it made me go on a MP era binge. I forgot how much more memorable James vocals are on those albums. I want to have his vocals stuck in my head again. More than anything I’m looking forward to his influence on writing. Also hoping we get some more metal influence! Really hoping the chemistry just clicks with the guys.

It was the Top 100, not Mike's return (though that helped) but same for me.  There were SO many good melodies and harmonies on those early albums... I said in the Top 100 that other than Genesis I'm not sure I love a band that has so many songs where "beautiful" is the operative word.  And for a band that is a so-called "Prog Metal" band, that's amazing.   I hope that continues. 

[gborland]

It’s pretty cut and dry.

The one thing it's NOT. 

It really, really is.

You really won't be satisfied until you get a recording or transcript of The Phone Call, will you?

[Stadler]

It’s pretty cut and dry.

The one thing it's NOT. 

It really, really is.

You really won't be satisfied until you get a recording or transcript of The Phone Call, will you?

I'm satisfied right now. Very.  I don't need a phone call transcript.  I need people here to stop making assumptions when they don't know the first thing about what they're talking about.  I don't CARE what happened with the band.  It's their business, not mine, and I'm not entitled to that information.  All I know - all WE know - is that Mike Portnoy is now the drummer for DT and Mike Mangini is not, and Mangini found out via a phone call that was unscheduled.  I prefer the Portnoy era, for various reasons (though I like Mangini), and that's all that matters to me, so I'm jazzed.

[Lonk]

tomorrow there will be a new Q&A with JP at NAMM, so let's hope someone who's there asks the juicy questions ;-)

I believe MP will be in the area as well for the Metal Allegiance show. Maybe they can get together and start writing down some ideas for the new album 

At least Jordan will also be at NAMM, but I'm pretty sure they won't start working together until they're all in the studio. Hopefully next month.

Right, forgot that Jordan goes to NAMM as well. That 60% of the band and the main writers. I'm sure they are not in a rush to start writing stuff, but I hope they at least get to hang out while out there

[HOF]

I thought maybe after ignoring this post for 2 weeks maybe the conversations would be back on track. Clearly I was wrong… holy shit….

You could expand on your 11 posts then and try and steer things in a different direction if you wish.

All due respect bro when these conversations go full steam ahead my attempt at changing topics will be ignored. (I did try to make points about what I was hoping MP would bring to the table somewhere back in these pages that is kinda lost in the comments)

I’d love to up my posts by having a good conversation. I don’t see what theorizing about MM’s exact exit is doing. We really have nothing else to say about this. It’s pretty cut and dry.

I’d say let’s talk about where we see DT going with Portnoy. How do we think this will affect songwriting. What direction are we expecting. That’s the stuff I find fun to engage about. I for one am hoping he has some influence on vocal arrangements and helps us get a Labrie performance that makes all us fans happy. He seemed pretty involved with coming up with melodies and stuff like that on some making of videos in the past.

Hey, I agree with you, it's pretty cut and dry to me too.  We have definitely flogged the dead horse past the decomposition stage.

In relation to where they go now, it's going to be interesting and exciting.  I love the thought of James and Mike working together on melodies.  Hopefully their relationship can be repaired enough that they can both work together to get the best out of him live and in the studio.  Saying that, I've never had a problem with anything James has done in the studio.

To be honest, I have no real expectations.  I'd say personally though I'd love them to drift into more metal again over the prog, but that will go down here like a lead balloon here.

Huh, I haven't followed them that closely with MM, but my impression is they are more metal over prog these days already. Unless you just mean more straight metal and less prog metal.

[Stadler]

I just want them to PLAY.  The beauty of bands like DT (and QR, and some others) back in the 90s and 00s, was that there were no rules.  There didn't seem to be any concern about whether this was "prog" or "metal" or whatever, they just played what felt right.  I don't care about genres. I love Mike, and I loved a LOT of what he did after DT, but the one thing I didn't like was the idea that "this is my metal project, this is my trad prog project, this is my new prog project, this is my ..."    The beauty of watching musicians of this calibre is that they can play a jazz figure over a metal rhythm with a prog accompaniment and it sounds GLORIOUS. 

Just play.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i saw an (unsubstantiated) rumor on the DT Discord that said that they believe MP threatened legal action to come back and that is what happened. would be interesting if it were true, but i am leaning in the direction of it being total hogwash, personally.

[pg1067]

i saw an (unsubstantiated) rumor on the DT Discord that said that they believe MP threatened legal action to come back and that is what happened. would be interesting if it were true, but i am leaning in the direction of it being total hogwash, personally.

JFC....

[hefdaddy42]

i saw an (unsubstantiated) rumor on the DT Discord that said that they believe MP threatened legal action to come back and that is what happened. would be interesting if it were true, but i am leaning in the direction of it being total hogwash, personally.

Everything you have ever reported as having read there was bullshit.  Including this.

You gotta get off of that thing, my dude.

[TAC]

i saw an (unsubstantiated) rumor on the DT Discord that said that they believe MP threatened legal action to come back and that is what happened. would be interesting if it were true, but i am leaning in the direction of it being total hogwash, personally.

Everything you have ever reported as having read there was bullshit.  Including this.

You gotta get off of that thing, my dude.

And stop bringing it here. It’s not even funny.

[cramx3]

JFC....

Everything you have ever reported as having read there was bullshit.  Including this.

You gotta get off of that thing, my dude.

And stop bringing it here. It’s not even funny.

[DragonAttack]

Something I wanted to simply ask eons ago, and wish we were all sitting at a bar shooting the breeze.

Will always be curious as to what happened just before/during/immediately after August 7th, and the 'MP is returning' announcement on October 25th.  The reason for the question is that August 7th was the last day of JP's 4.0 Camp.  On MM's Fbook, he has various concert pix from the tour (and while golfing wearing a DT cap) posted on August 19th.  And then, if I'm not mistaken, that's the last DT comment on his page until the announcement.