Author Topic: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)  (Read 354006 times)

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4025 on: October 04, 2021, 02:12:09 PM »
Third Single Snippet

I would pay to hear the band play that and hear him sing that during a soundcheck.  :lol
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Offline SeRoX

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4027 on: October 04, 2021, 02:24:11 PM »
That got me so good. According to owner, he actually recorded guitars but drums and keys are MIDI.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4028 on: October 04, 2021, 02:39:59 PM »
If that song was changed, they added the brilliant Budokan solo and outro in Hollow Years (I know Budokan was after FII but still), you could have actually just cut Burning my Soul and had an all round awesome album from start to finish. But the producers didn’t make those decisions either. So I think they had a bit of a mixed bag with some of their decisions. So I guess the question is: if there are going to be some decisions made good and some not so good, would that be any different with the band making the decisions or an outside producer doing it? I think you might get a bit of a mixed bag either way…

Well, this is a trick one. I read (it was either an interview or some fragment from Lifting Shadows) that John first did a completely different take on the Hollow Years solo, a much more complex acustic guitar approach to what we got, and Kevin Shirley LOVED IT. Then John came in the next day saying he wanted to do something else (the one that ended up being used on the album) and they had to delete the previous take since they were doing analog recordings back then. Kevin Shirley said he was really sad about this, but he understood he was making THEIR record, not his, so ended up doing what JP wanted, so it's not like the band had 0 input on the stuff that ended up being released.
Not exactly. JP performed the solo and it wasn't perfect technically speaking. However, it had the perfect vibe in Caveman's opinion, imperfections and all. But the following day JP insisted on redoing it, so they wiped the solo from the tape and JP redid it. If you listen to the original demo, it pretty much has the same solo, so it's not like JP did a completely different solo.
 
 
No matter if FII is an album you enjoy or not (I don't) I think we can all agree it wasn't good for DT and it would be like shooting yourself in the foot by doing something similar. It's not a favourite amongst fans (some songs are highly regarded however) and the band hated it so that's def going to far.
"The band hated it". "The band" = MP. I'm not saying FII is a masterpiece or anything like that, I always rank it in the bottom 3 of DT albums, but it's kind of a fact that the only member that really hated the album was MP, and he was very vocal about it (as he is with most stuff anyway :lol). There was a recent (2014-ish) interview with JP where he said that they didn't hate the album and that they made the album they wanted to make (obviously MP would disagree :P).
Got some quotes from JM, JL and DS to back up your statement? Just because MP was the most vocal does not mean that at least one or two of the other members didn't feel the same way. Regarding JP, just because he said that in 2014 doesn't mean he felt the same way upon completing the album. Even MP has made some more positive comments regarding FII in more recent times when the topic came up during interviews for SoA, so it's not like opinions can't change.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 02:46:33 PM by Setlist Scotty »
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Glasser

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4029 on: October 04, 2021, 02:52:18 PM »
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:

Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?

I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 03:07:17 PM by Glasser »

Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4030 on: October 04, 2021, 03:03:39 PM »
If that song was changed, they added the brilliant Budokan solo and outro in Hollow Years (I know Budokan was after FII but still), you could have actually just cut Burning my Soul and had an all round awesome album from start to finish. But the producers didn’t make those decisions either. So I think they had a bit of a mixed bag with some of their decisions. So I guess the question is: if there are going to be some decisions made good and some not so good, would that be any different with the band making the decisions or an outside producer doing it? I think you might get a bit of a mixed bag either way…

Well, this is a trick one. I read (it was either an interview or some fragment from Lifting Shadows) that John first did a completely different take on the Hollow Years solo, a much more complex acustic guitar approach to what we got, and Kevin Shirley LOVED IT. Then John came in the next day saying he wanted to do something else (the one that ended up being used on the album) and they had to delete the previous take since they were doing analog recordings back then. Kevin Shirley said he was really sad about this, but he understood he was making THEIR record, not his, so ended up doing what JP wanted, so it's not like the band had 0 input on the stuff that ended up being released.
Not exactly. JP performed the solo and it wasn't perfect technically speaking. However, it had the perfect vibe in Caveman's opinion, imperfections and all. But the following day JP insisted on redoing it, so they wiped the solo from the tape and JP redid it. If you listen to the original demo, it pretty much has the same solo, so it's not like JP did a completely different solo.

I'd definitely trust what Scotty said more than what I wrote in my previous post :biggrin:

No matter if FII is an album you enjoy or not (I don't) I think we can all agree it wasn't good for DT and it would be like shooting yourself in the foot by doing something similar. It's not a favourite amongst fans (some songs are highly regarded however) and the band hated it so that's def going to far.
"The band hated it". "The band" = MP. I'm not saying FII is a masterpiece or anything like that, I always rank it in the bottom 3 of DT albums, but it's kind of a fact that the only member that really hated the album was MP, and he was very vocal about it (as he is with most stuff anyway :lol). There was a recent (2014-ish) interview with JP where he said that they didn't hate the album and that they made the album they wanted to make (obviously MP would disagree :P).
Got some quotes from JM, JL and DS to back up your statement? Just because MP was the most vocal does not mean that at least one or two of the other members didn't feel the same way. Regarding JP, just because he said that in 2014 doesn't mean he felt the same way upon completing the album. Even MP has made some more positive comments regarding FII in more recent times when the topic came up during interviews for SoA, so it's not like opinions can't change.

As for this part, I don't, but we've discussed this here before and I seem to recall mostly positive comments from the other band members about the album. Also, I think the lack of negative comments on their part also weights a lot here. MP seems to be the only one who had bad things to say about the whole thing and even in the FII demos liner notes he makes most of the statements about himself: "I didn't like this", "My lyrics talk about my frustrations", "I wanted this or that guy to be our producer but the label didn't", etc. He even briefly quit the band around that time too.

This is not a dig at MP at all, he's free to dislike that experience or any other (like his issues with Prater for IAW), and we could all go through the same thing and process it in a different way. I just say that there's no real evidence either from any of the other guys of hating FII. Saying "the band hated it" isn't accurate IMO. MP hated it, though, that's for sure.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4031 on: October 04, 2021, 03:37:40 PM »
I get what you're saying, but if MP speaks in generalities ("the band" or "members of the band") in reference to something like how they felt about FII or JL's performances lacking by the end of 2002, then I think it's safe to say it wasn't just him. If it was just solely him, then he would state it as such, like the examples you included (which BTW, don't mean that other band members didn't have negative feelings, but not necessarily those specific things). The other guys might not be so willing to speak up about controversial or negative topics, but that doesn't mean they didn't feel the same way.  :)
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline BeatriceNB

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4032 on: October 04, 2021, 05:09:26 PM »
[...]

This is not a dig at MP at all, he's free to dislike that experience or any other (like his issues with Prater for IAW) and we could all go through the same thing and process it in a different way. I just say that there's no real evidence either from any of the other guys of hating FII. Saying "the band hated it" isn't accurate IMO. MP hated it, though, that's for sure.

I find it funny how Lifting Shadows does everything possible to put Prater as the bad guy in the situation, despite him spitting pure facts one after the other  :rollin

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4033 on: October 04, 2021, 05:11:30 PM »
I always remember one of MP’s little mini documentaries, might have been on the Score dvd, when he was talking about FII and the outside influences trying to push the band in a more commercial direction.  His voiceover was saying how some band members were willing to play ball and it very clearly cut to footage of John Petrucci while he was saying it.  Might have been a coincidence but it certainly gave the distinct impression (considering this was directed by MP) that Petrucci was who he was talking about.  I can’t see JLB being too bothered either and Sherinian had played in more commercial bands so would not have been too put out either, I wouldn’t have thought.  MP quit the band at that time so it certainly seems he felt more strongly than the others.

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4034 on: October 04, 2021, 05:14:55 PM »
[...]

This is not a dig at MP at all, he's free to dislike that experience or any other (like his issues with Prater for IAW) and we could all go through the same thing and process it in a different way. I just say that there's no real evidence either from any of the other guys of hating FII. Saying "the band hated it" isn't accurate IMO. MP hated it, though, that's for sure.

I find it funny how Lifting Shadows does everything possible to put Prater as the bad guy in the situation, despite him spitting pure facts one after the other  :rollin

He was my favourite character in the book, absolutely hilarious but he wasn’t wrong about a lot of stuff.  I personally am glad he put his foot down about the “mercy fuck” line in ACOS.  I’d go as far to say that it might have ruined the song for me if left in.  I’m no prude but that was a terrible line.

Offline Revenge319

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4035 on: October 04, 2021, 05:21:53 PM »
I personally am glad he put his foot down about the “mercy fuck” line in ACOS.  I’d go as far to say that it might have ruined the song for me if left in.  I’m no prude but that was a terrible line.

I agree. A Change of Seasons would be significantly lower on my Dream Theater rankings with that line. I feel like there'd be so many things wrong with including that line that I don't even know where to begin.

Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4036 on: October 04, 2021, 05:25:40 PM »
it's cool that we dont have to wonder what it would have sounded like (0:09 in): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWD8Us5qSqQ

 :lol

Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4037 on: October 04, 2021, 08:28:01 PM »
Didn't really know where to post this, but here's James singing THAT part from Innocence Faded on Cameo https://youtu.be/QX0k8oRuiOY
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4038 on: October 04, 2021, 08:38:45 PM »
Didn't really know where to post this, but here's James singing THAT part from Innocence Faded on Cameo https://youtu.be/QX0k8oRuiOY

Listened in 1.25 speed and you get album speed and it sounds awesome.
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Offline GasparXR

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4039 on: October 04, 2021, 09:21:51 PM »
Didn't really know where to post this, but here's James singing THAT part from Innocence Faded on Cameo https://youtu.be/QX0k8oRuiOY

He's been sounding insanely good on these lately. I know it's not in the context of a 2-2.5 hour show, but hopefully these shorter shows gives him the rest he needs to keep his voice in this kind of tip-top shape. I imagine he probably still won't sing this high all the time while touring, but he clearly still has the ability to sing pretty demanding stuff.

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4040 on: October 05, 2021, 05:31:39 AM »
it's cool that we dont have to wonder what it would have sounded like (0:09 in): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWD8Us5qSqQ

 :lol
Yeah, I wouldn't have minded that line. Idk what I thought when I first heard about it, but after the last ten years of DT being extremely buttoned up lyrically, I don't mind some spice!

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4041 on: October 05, 2021, 06:26:10 AM »
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:

Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?

I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
Because production matters.  It's an element of the recording, just as much as the lyrics or the chord progression.  They are all elements that go into the recording, and all have an impact on how much someone may like or dislike a song.

If you get a song where everything comes together, that's great.  But that doesn't always happen. 

Your comment reminds me of people that complain about movie critics talking about cinematography, lighting, writing, or casting.  Just because certain elements of any given art form don't enter into how you enjoy it doesn't mean that they aren't valid discussion points.  They give additional ways to enjoy the film/song, beyond "I liked it/I didn't like it" (which are still valid, of course).
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4042 on: October 05, 2021, 06:54:39 AM »
[...]

This is not a dig at MP at all, he's free to dislike that experience or any other (like his issues with Prater for IAW) and we could all go through the same thing and process it in a different way. I just say that there's no real evidence either from any of the other guys of hating FII. Saying "the band hated it" isn't accurate IMO. MP hated it, though, that's for sure.

I find it funny how Lifting Shadows does everything possible to put Prater as the bad guy in the situation, despite him spitting pure facts one after the other  :rollin

He was my favourite character in the book, absolutely hilarious but he wasn’t wrong about a lot of stuff.  I personally am glad he put his foot down about the “mercy fuck” line in ACOS.  I’d go as far to say that it might have ruined the song for me if left in.  I’m no prude but that was a terrible line.

Yes, thank goodness reeason triumphed.

Offline Pettor

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4043 on: October 05, 2021, 07:31:33 AM »
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:

Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?

I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?

Somehow I came to think about this video:

https://youtu.be/k27cWPYlNZM?t=92

The last sentence I think hits hard. "Our country turns everything into a competition". Couldn't agree with him more on that. The whole capitalistic idea to measure, compare and compete with everything shows at every corner no matter if it's music, movies etc. It's not only that but I do believe it's integrated into all we do. I know I compare way too much and should just digest what I love and skip the nonsense.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2021, 07:53:24 AM by Pettor »

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4044 on: October 05, 2021, 10:14:04 AM »
We have a review guys, it's from the Argentine section of the DT fanclub, and it's a very positive one. I'll post some parts here. (and I'll skip The Alien and Invisible Monster for obvious reasons)

"Dream Theater presents their new album "A View From The Top Of The World". A heavier album than their latest releases, believe me, at the end of the first few listens, you will feel as if you have just run a marathon; You can tell that there was a contain force that needed to be released.
I must highlight the work of Andy Sneap (Mastering and Mixing) and James Meslin (Sound Engineering), as this album sounds INCREDIBLY clear and crisp. Each instrument can be appreciated to perfection despite the complexity of the music.
Next, I leave you a brief review track by track so that you can get an idea of ​​what you are going to find.

"Answering The Call:
The song starts and ends with an intro that reminded me of the beginning of Rush's “Tom Sawyer”. It is a song with brutal riffs, double bass drums and a great accompaniment by JR, who plays in the spaces left by the melody. In several places in the song there is a beautiful multi-layered voice from JLB. Curious fact, in the song the phrase “the writing on the wall” is reused, also used in “The Gift of Music”. Reaching ¾ of the track, you can hear a classic sequence of JP's solo, followed by a JR  solo while a Metallica-style riff plays in the background, followed by a perfectly played unison."

"Sleeping Giant:
This is my favorite song on the album. It begins with a raw riff and a melody that makes you want to move. The track begins by talking about what motivates a society: conflict, compassion, aggressiveness, need, and highlights its obsession with suffering and death. Shortly after the middle of the song the band begins about 2 minutes of madness that only DT can perform, endless scales, pianola, solo exchanges between JP and JR. It ends with a beautiful vocal melody and virtuous scale as MM plays at the speed of light."

"Transcending Time:
This song is the closest thing to a ballad that fans of DT's quieter side are going to get. It has a Rush vibe to it and the chorus reminds me of something Bon Jovi-esque. That said, a little after the middle of the song, it has a heavy section with scales and a very fast guitar solo. JR uses an arsenal of effects to give the track a distinctly 90’ vibe. If I have to bet my money, I would say that the lyrics were wrote by JM, because it is impossible to determine what it is about, it is certainly an abstract poem!"

"Awaken The Master:
The 8 string song, whoever waits for JP doing djent will have to keep waiting because the 8 strings are used with scales and riffs. After the intro, JR delights us with a beautiful piano followed by a melodic guitar solo.  At three quarters of the track there is a long instrumental section and at the end JLB returns to close it. The song seems to be about a person who climbs a mountain, but with a religious tinge at the same time, speaking of light, darkness and guiding angels. Perhaps a metaphor about the path we make in our life. A great phrase says " you made it to the top, just to find out, you're only halfway there, all along missing the point of the journey " ... wonderful, amazing, beautiful."

"A View From The Top Of The World:
It is the turn of the epic. It begins with an introduction worthy of a soundtrack of an epic battle. The song talks about the challenge of reaching the top, overcoming the natural instincts that beg you to stop, the physical and mental state, but none of that matters to face the adventure, that addiction to glory and pain. As you can imagine, the song has multiple instrumental sections in which they stands out a guitar/piano/cello part, a baroque style part and another with one of the best riffs on the album. At the near end there is, without a doubt, the best vocal melody of the album. The song closes with a repeating riff while MM does his thing, resembling Finally Free.

Undoubtedly DT heard many of his fans crying out loud for a heavier album, even "Transcending Time", the song that could be considered the ballad, has his high in decibels section, so that there are no doubts about the tone of the album. But also, on the other hand, they managed to contrast this with multiple styles such as music from the 90's, Arabic, pianola and even baroque, something very remarkable that requires incredible musical ability. I can't wait to see how these songs will sound like live.

Without a doubt, another great album as we are always accustomed to by this great band.
JMP, DT Argentina."

(had to edit the post quite a bit for everything to fit into here, sorry)







« Last Edit: October 05, 2021, 10:38:05 AM by Max Kuehnau »
"All my natural instincts are begging me to stop
But somehow I carry on, heading for the top
A physical absurdity, a tremendous mental game
Helping me understand exactly who I am"

Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4045 on: October 05, 2021, 10:31:43 AM »
 :metal :metal :metal
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Glasser

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4046 on: October 05, 2021, 10:32:29 AM »
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:

Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?

I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
Because production matters.  It's an element of the recording, just as much as the lyrics or the chord progression.  They are all elements that go into the recording, and all have an impact on how much someone may like or dislike a song.

If you get a song where everything comes together, that's great.  But that doesn't always happen. 

Your comment reminds me of people that complain about movie critics talking about cinematography, lighting, writing, or casting.  Just because certain elements of any given art form don't enter into how you enjoy it doesn't mean that they aren't valid discussion points.  They give additional ways to enjoy the film/song, beyond "I liked it/I didn't like it" (which are still valid, of course).

I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album. Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.

Offline rab7

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4047 on: October 05, 2021, 10:38:41 AM »
Re: Track by track from Argentina

I remember seeing people being worried that JP would use the 8-string for djent and others saying "no he's probably going to be really creative with it"

I'm happy that the reviewer has confirmed they went with the second route

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4048 on: October 05, 2021, 12:32:08 PM »
Like the sound of those track by track descriptions.  Obviously there’s the “DT fanclub like the new DT album” element so am not going to get too carried away but we’re all fans too so it’s nice to hear fans enjoying the album.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4049 on: October 05, 2021, 12:34:39 PM »
I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album.
My point isn't absolute, so it doesn't require you to agree with it.  But you point it out yourself in the bolded.  People are different.  Just because production doesn't matter to you doesn't mean that it should be irrelevant to everyone else.  It's valid whether it's valid to you personally or not.

Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.
Yes, they create it, but we listen to it, and the choices they make will indelibly have an effect on how we respond to it.  They reason I like/dislike a song could be as varied as a chord progression to a lyric to a drum beat to an arrangement to how a song is produced.  Just because some of that doesn't matter to YOU doesn't mean that none of it should matter to anyone else.  Which is all I'm saying.
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Offline LKap13

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4050 on: October 05, 2021, 12:34:48 PM »
The snippets made me more excited than this review. I'm reading too much into it but was hoping for more than just "another great release by dt"

Offline Sebastián Pratesi

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4051 on: October 05, 2021, 01:10:00 PM »
"A View From The Top Of The World:
The song closes with a repeating riff while MM does his thing, resembling Finally Free.
Awesome! My favourite moment of the 2019 show was Mike's solo in "Finally Free". He did some crazy stuff with the meters, making the other instruments' parts sound a bit different..

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4052 on: October 05, 2021, 01:24:30 PM »
"A View From The Top Of The World:
The song closes with a repeating riff while MM does his thing, resembling Finally Free.
Awesome! My favourite moment of the 2019 show was Mike's solo in "Finally Free". He did some crazy stuff with the meters, making the other instruments' parts sound a bit different..

I loved that part also. It took a couple listens for me to "get" it. I am glad for Mike that he had that opportunity to showcase - and the perfect place for it!

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4053 on: October 05, 2021, 01:58:12 PM »
Yeah, I feel I'm going to really Enjoy Answer The Call and Awaken The Master.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
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Offline Glasser

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4054 on: October 05, 2021, 02:49:30 PM »
I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album.
My point isn't absolute, so it doesn't require you to agree with it.  But you point it out yourself in the bolded.  People are different.  Just because production doesn't matter to you doesn't mean that it should be irrelevant to everyone else.  It's valid whether it's valid to you personally or not.

Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.
Yes, they create it, but we listen to it, and the choices they make will indelibly have an effect on how we respond to it.  They reason I like/dislike a song could be as varied as a chord progression to a lyric to a drum beat to an arrangement to how a song is produced.  Just because some of that doesn't matter to YOU doesn't mean that none of it should matter to anyone else.  Which is all I'm saying.

Fair enough my friend.  :)



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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4055 on: October 05, 2021, 03:33:45 PM »
I'm glad the 8 string is used for riffs and as part of scale runs and not just GUNG GUNG GUNG GOWWWWWW. Cause that whole 'sound' is played out imo.

Also

Quote
I would say that the lyrics were wrote by JM, because it is impossible to determine what it is about, it is certainly an abstract poem!"

Yep that tracks !

Offline rab7

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4056 on: October 05, 2021, 03:38:03 PM »
I'm glad the 8 string is used for riffs and as part of scale runs and not just GUNG GUNG GUNG GOWWWWWW. Cause that whole 'sound' is played out imo.

Also

Quote
I would say that the lyrics were wrote by JM, because it is impossible to determine what it is about, it is certainly an abstract poem!"

Yep that tracks !

I think we saw from the screen captures that JP wrote Transcending Time and JM wrote Awaken

Offline BeatriceNB

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4057 on: October 05, 2021, 05:53:46 PM »
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:

Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?

I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
Because production matters.  It's an element of the recording, just as much as the lyrics or the chord progression.  They are all elements that go into the recording, and all have an impact on how much someone may like or dislike a song.

If you get a song where everything comes together, that's great.  But that doesn't always happen. 

Your comment reminds me of people that complain about movie critics talking about cinematography, lighting, writing, or casting.  Just because certain elements of any given art form don't enter into how you enjoy it doesn't mean that they aren't valid discussion points.  They give additional ways to enjoy the film/song, beyond "I liked it/I didn't like it" (which are still valid, of course).

I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album. Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.

There's studies that say that timbre is the most important aspect of music, and how it directly affects the perception of the music. If production didn't matter, we would just read sheet music because the notes are the same anyway (a small hyperbole there).
Perception of production is entirely subjective, of course, but aesthetics have different trends/rules about production (and thus, timbre).
If Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up had '60s style production, it wouldn't be the same song, even if the notes were the same, right away from the start with the synth drums.

Timbre/tones, dynamics in the playing, volume (and macro dynamics), panning, and more, all matter (even if the listener can't coinciously tell) and the outcome can be really different with anything of that changing.

In my personal case, I never listen to Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence with headphones because the production makes it literally unlistenable for me; that directly affects my relationship with the album.

Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4058 on: October 05, 2021, 06:17:48 PM »
production matters a lot, but still not as much as people think.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #4059 on: October 05, 2021, 08:50:40 PM »
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:

Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?

I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
Because production matters.  It's an element of the recording, just as much as the lyrics or the chord progression.  They are all elements that go into the recording, and all have an impact on how much someone may like or dislike a song.

If you get a song where everything comes together, that's great.  But that doesn't always happen. 

Your comment reminds me of people that complain about movie critics talking about cinematography, lighting, writing, or casting.  Just because certain elements of any given art form don't enter into how you enjoy it doesn't mean that they aren't valid discussion points.  They give additional ways to enjoy the film/song, beyond "I liked it/I didn't like it" (which are still valid, of course).

I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album. Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.

There's studies that say that timbre is the most important aspect of music, and how it directly affects the perception of the music. If production didn't matter, we would just read sheet music because the notes are the same anyway (a small hyperbole there).
Perception of production is entirely subjective, of course, but aesthetics have different trends/rules about production (and thus, timbre).
If Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up had '60s style production, it wouldn't be the same song, even if the notes were the same, right away from the start with the synth drums.

Timbre/tones, dynamics in the playing, volume (and macro dynamics), panning, and more, all matter (even if the listener can't coinciously tell) and the outcome can be really different with anything of that changing.

In my personal case, I never listen to Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence with headphones because the production makes it literally unlistenable for me; that directly affects my relationship with the album.

That Timbre is definitely noticeable in live shows. So much that it can prevent people from seeing their favorite band if that Timbre they love is not there anymore.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD