37 months between TA and DOT.
37 months between TA and DOT.
Well, this could be partially justified by the unexpected success of the Images and Words tour, which as far as I remember Bosk's comments, was meant to be a quick run before every promoter in the world wanted it "forcing" them to tour a year for it.
It seemed to me that they could have released DOT a few months earlier than they did but held it back to be closer to the tour or something.
Looking forward to all of this :metalvery much so yes. I'm thoroughly interested to hear both what he will write on his solo album as well as how that will evolve on DT15. I'm sure he has good ideas (and he had them on every DT album already)
Looking forward to The Astonishing Part 2.
:P :P
Followed by "Return Of Ravenskill"Looking forward to The Astonishing Part 2.
:P :P
The Great Northern Empire Strikes Back.
thanks to Sebastiàn for the idea.Oh, thanks buddy. :smiley: It's amazing to know that a new album is already being talked about.
The super crazy full-on prog album.
I mean, I hope. But whatever they want to do is fine.
The super crazy full-on prog album.
I mean, I hope. But whatever they want to do is fine.
The super crazy full-on prog album.
I mean, I hope. But whatever they want to do is fine.
This, and I would like to see a return to (some) longer songs.
They've done well on DOT (and to a lesser extent the self titled) in proving they can still make shorter songs that are heavy proggy and classic DT - not just ballads!
Now I would like to see a couple of 10min+ songs chucked in to see how these would be tackled these days. Will have been 10 years since we've had an album like that when the new album comes out.
I'd love an album with longer songs, too. Whatever they do, I'm sure I'll like it.yes, I'd love longer pieces too
However, please don't put your awesome compositions in such a compressed sound please :)
(or in other words, them not making D/T part 2 if you catch my drift.)
It seemed to me that they could have released DOT a few months earlier than they did but held it back to be closer to the tour or something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sDyhyC8A5k...and in the fall another tour with someone else....is what I thought I heard....
Apparently writing/recording session will start in winter. I expect DT15 to come out in May 2021. :metal
You're actually responsable for making a DT slbum sound slightly better? wow :hefdaddy
Maybe they will be opening for someone? :omg:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sDyhyC8A5k...and in the fall another tour with someone else....is what I thought I heard....
Apparently writing/recording session will start in winter. I expect DT15 to come out in May 2021. :metal
I wonder how they can make this unique, or if it will "just" be another DT album.
Since Mangini joined we got:
- The classic back to the roots album
- The album with shorter songs and a bigass long epic
- The rock opera
- The heavy and concise album
Where do they go from here?
Maybe they will be opening for someone? :omg:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sDyhyC8A5k...and in the fall another tour with someone else....is what I thought I heard....
Apparently writing/recording session will start in winter. I expect DT15 to come out in May 2021. :metal
Followed by "Return Of Ravenskill"Looking forward to The Astonishing Part 2.
:P :P
The Great Northern Empire Strikes Back.
It seems quite a few people here have an issue with the loud/compressed sound of D/T. I would LOVE to hear a DT album recorded/mixed/mastered by Steven Wilson.
Yeah I know, but one can dream, right?
Kevin Caveman Shirley mixed some of Maidens post 2000 albums and it's kind of hit and miss. I think that might be because Steve Harris has a lot of say so, and he doesn't want his albums mastered.It seems quite a few people here have an issue with the loud/compressed sound of D/T. I would LOVE to hear a DT album recorded/mixed/mastered by Steven Wilson.
Yeah I know, but one can dream, right?
I would say bring back Kevin Shirley. I think he did the best sounding DT albums. Awake was also incredible sounding and sounds amazing even today.
Loud/compressed albums don't bother me that much. I can see why it would bother some though. I guess I find myself more interested in the song itself than how loud it is.
Couldn't agree more.
However, I do pay attention to how crisp and hard hitting the drums and guitar sound. That's something I really like. I love the sound of the guitars and drums in both DT12 and D/T.
When I first spun up DT12 it was certainly noticeable that the snare sounded a little dull but that did not take away from my enjoyment of that record and the only thing that I would have recommended is that JP had fewer rhythm guitar parts on certain songs. D/T for me though is nearly perfect in the sound. MM's drums sound awesome! :metal
I like the overall sound of TA but the sound the drums and guitars don't give me that same "metal" excitement that the other two do.
Well to my ears, I think this is where MM's drums start coming alive. The snare had more "crack" to it which captured beautifully on D/T. In fact, MM's parts on TA were out of sight.
ADToE, I don't like the sound of the drums and guitars very much at all. But, I'm more focused on the songs themselves, so I still really love that album.
Now this one - I would love a remaster because the drums sound muddy but I love JP's guitar sound! In fact, I think he captures his quintessential guitar tone on BAI at the 3:46 mark. That certainly makes my horns go up! :metal
How about a double CD in a similar vein of SDOIT?Your post actually reminded me of what I'd love to see them do, which is what DT album #6 was originally supposed to be: a DT album influenced by world music. Of course, the night before they were to start writing what became SDoIT, JP and MP saw Pantera in concert, which motivated them to toss aside the world music idea and write TGP. And as it turned out, that was probably for the best since Steve Vai ended up using the same concept for his album in that same time period.
What I find funny about the compression discussion is that Falling Into Infinity is "the gold standard" for what an album should sound like for DT, and it's also among the most compressed of them all. Just goes to show that average compression on an album is not always the best way to measure whether something sounds good or not.
It seems quite a few people here have an issue with the loud/compressed sound of D/T. I would LOVE to hear a DT album recorded/mixed/mastered by Steven Wilson.
Yeah I know, but one can dream, right?
I would say bring back Kevin Shirley. I think he did the best sounding DT albums. Awake was also incredible sounding and sounds amazing even today.
I always find it interesting to read discussions about the production of Dream Theater albums, about how some albums are mixed well, some are mixed terrible, and how albums succeed or fail in other ways regarding their production...
Because to me, I hear absolutely no difference between albums. I guess I just care way more about the music itself than the technical production qualities associated with it, because I hear basically no differences between WDADU and Awake and Falling Into Infinity and Train of Thought and BC&SL and ADTOE and DOT in terms of production quality or anything like that.
And those are just the albums that are usually brought up when discussing album production; same goes for the other seven albums.
(Guess that's what happens to me when it feels like Dream Theater can pretty much do no wrong.)
I always find it interesting to read discussions about the production of Dream Theater albums, about how some albums are mixed well, some are mixed terrible, and how albums succeed or fail in other ways regarding their production...
Because to me, I hear absolutely no difference between albums. I guess I just care way more about the music itself than the technical production qualities associated with it, because I hear basically no differences between WDADU and Awake and Falling Into Infinity and Train of Thought and BC&SL and ADTOE and DOT in terms of production quality or anything like that.
And those are just the albums that are usually brought up when discussing album production; same goes for the other seven albums.
(Guess that's what happens to me when it feels like Dream Theater can pretty much do no wrong.)
What I find funny about the compression discussion is that Falling Into Infinity is "the gold standard" for what an album should sound like for DT, and it's also among the most compressed of them all. Just goes to show that average compression on an album is not always the best way to measure whether something sounds good or not.
The common way to measure compression is to look at the average, min and max loudness of an audio signal.
This is a database that compiles this loudness;
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr?artist=dream+theater
And it's been a little while since I looked at the waveforms themselves, but I seem to remember that the CD version of D/T was barely clipping at all, and that FII was actually clipping more than D/T. But the version of D/T I heard the first time around would've been at the top of the list I just linked to, and clipped a LOT.
The problem with the backlash to TA is, the band seem to see it as people weren't keen on them experimenting whereas I just felt like they didn't do enough experimenting and a lot of it was still quite 'safe'. There are some great bits throughout where they do try different stuff, like Lord Nafaryus, Three Days and A New Beginning, but then there's also a lot of stereotypical ballads and metal bits. Without trying to focus too much on the already done to death TA discussion, I'd just like them to try a lot of different things again. I feel like if you look at everything through to SC every album feels distinctly different to the last one, then up to DT12 they're still quite different album to album but if you look at the 4 Mangini-era albums together I don't feel like they've moved that far from ADTOE on DOT.How about a double CD in a similar vein of SDOIT?Your post actually reminded me of what I'd love to see them do, which is what DT album #6 was originally supposed to be: a DT album influenced by world music. Of course, the night before they were to start writing what became SDoIT, JP and MP saw Pantera in concert, which motivated them to toss aside the world music idea and write TGP. And as it turned out, that was probably for the best since Steve Vai ended up using the same concept for his album in that same time period.
Now that it's been 19 years, I'd love to see them resurrect that idea and see what they came up with. It would definitely be something unique, but I'm sure they would also still keep it firmly within the scope of what DT sounds like, especially in light of the backlash they received from TA.
The common way to measure compression is to look at the average, min and max loudness of an audio signal.
This is a database that compiles this loudness;
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr?artist=dream+theater
And it's been a little while since I looked at the waveforms themselves, but I seem to remember that the CD version of D/T was barely clipping at all, and that FII was actually clipping more than D/T. But the version of D/T I heard the first time around would've been at the top of the list I just linked to, and clipped a LOT.
Maybe this has been mentioned, but with the DT guys sequestered it may present an opportunity for DT15 to be a Fragile type album with some individual compositions. Would be very curious to hear that.well, IIRC Mike mentioned in one of his FB posts (some time last year after D/T came out) that he intends to contribute quite a bit more to DT15
It's true that a big chunk of fans didn't like TA, but I don't know how much of it was truly from them experimenting - SDoIT was an experimental album, and it's one of the most highly rated albums (at least on this website). I think a lot more of it was the storyline, the fact that the album was (for lack of a better phrase) ballad-heavy, it was the musical equivalent to a Broadway play, perhaps it was too long and it was lacking the song styles/structures that DT is known for (varying structures, with a good dose of balls'n'chunk and different instrumental sections interspersed).The problem with the backlash to TA is, the band seem to see it as people weren't keen on them experimenting whereas I just felt like they didn't do enough experimenting and a lot of it was still quite 'safe'. There are some great bits throughout where they do try different stuff, like Lord Nafaryus, Three Days and A New Beginning, but then there's also a lot of stereotypical ballads and metal bits. Without trying to focus too much on the already done to death TA discussion, I'd just like them to try a lot of different things again. I feel like if you look at everything through to SC every album feels distinctly different to the last one, then up to DT12 they're still quite different album to album but if you look at the 4 Mangini-era albums together I don't feel like they've moved that far from ADTOE on DOT.How about a double CD in a similar vein of SDOIT?Your post actually reminded me of what I'd love to see them do, which is what DT album #6 was originally supposed to be: a DT album influenced by world music. Of course, the night before they were to start writing what became SDoIT, JP and MP saw Pantera in concert, which motivated them to toss aside the world music idea and write TGP. And as it turned out, that was probably for the best since Steve Vai ended up using the same concept for his album in that same time period.
Now that it's been 19 years, I'd love to see them resurrect that idea and see what they came up with. It would definitely be something unique, but I'm sure they would also still keep it firmly within the scope of what DT sounds like, especially in light of the backlash they received from TA.
Maybe this has been mentioned, but with the DT guys sequestered it may present an opportunity for DT15 to be a Fragile type album with some individual compositions. Would be very curious to hear that.I'd be into that, especially if said solo compositions in addition to the album - as bonus tracks (ala Motley Crue's Quaternary EP) rather than part of the album proper.
If they were to do a world music-influenced album (note: influenced - *not* a world music album), I would imagine they would learn from their experience with TA to make sure that it still has enough DT-ness to it that it wouldn't end up being as polarizing as TA ended up being.
If they were to do a world music-influenced album (note: influenced - *not* a world music album), I would imagine they would learn from their experience with TA to make sure that it still has enough DT-ness to it that it wouldn't end up being as polarizing as TA ended up being.
I would hope they would not factor that in, actually. The biggest mistake a musician can make when writing music is worrying about fan reaction; how much fans like or dislike previous work should have zero impact on the new work you are making. Artificially adding in DT-ness, which is how I took that phrase, could come across as too forced.
If they were to do a world music-influenced album (note: influenced - *not* a world music album), I would imagine they would learn from their experience with TA to make sure that it still has enough DT-ness to it that it wouldn't end up being as polarizing as TA ended up being.
I would hope they would not factor that in, actually. The biggest mistake a musician can make when writing music is worrying about fan reaction; how much fans like or dislike previous work should have zero impact on the new work you are making. Artificially adding in DT-ness, which is how I took that phrase, could come across as too forced.
Well, you can for sure bet that the band takes that into account. I think DoT is a testament of that, after deviating too much on The Astonishing and the backlash that followed.
If they were to do a world music-influenced album (note: influenced - *not* a world music album), I would imagine they would learn from their experience with TA to make sure that it still has enough DT-ness to it that it wouldn't end up being as polarizing as TA ended up being.
I would hope they would not factor that in, actually. The biggest mistake a musician can make when writing music is worrying about fan reaction; how much fans like or dislike previous work should have zero impact on the new work you are making. Artificially adding in DT-ness, which is how I took that phrase, could come across as too forced.
Well, you can for sure bet that the band takes that into account. I think DoT is a testament of that, after deviating too much on The Astonishing and the backlash that followed.
D/T is still a great album, but I agree that it feels like a result of the polarized reception to TA.
I personally liked TA. My only issue with it was the (IMO) cheesy ending to the story, but overall it's still a good album with some great moments.
I still think that the initial run from the beginning up until Three Days is absolutely fantastic and a great uninterrupted collection of awesome music.
I still think that the initial run from the beginning up until Three Days is absolutely fantastic and a great uninterrupted collection of awesome music.
I agree! That initial run of songs is amazing! The second half of Disc 1 gets a bit too "ballady", so the pace is obviously slower and listening to the whole thing can be a bit tiring, but I'd say every song has GREAT moments anyway. I still think it's one of their best albums, despite the mixed reaction it had. Definitely the most ambitious project they've done so far.
D/T, in contrast, feels like a more relaxed, short album they did for fun, and man is it good :metal
I am having ongoing technical issues with The Astonishing that are baffling and quite frustrating, and prevents me from listening to it as often as I would like. For some reason, the coding for each track on that album is a mess, and it doesn't help that it is 2 disks. For whatever reason, when downloading the tracks to a hard drive or my phone, they do not appear in order. I have to go in manually and figure out how to get them to show up in the correct order. And then it seems like every time either my music player app or Sonos app updates, it is all screwed up, and I have to figure it out all over again. Quite annoying.
There's no way else to say it - TA is a work of art!
Same here. I definitely love it. But I still have no idea how to rank it among their other albums.There's no way else to say it - TA is a work of art!
Absolutely! The only question is to what extent that also translates into it being a great album. To me, it is easily an extremely good album. Whether it reaches "great" or not, I'm still not quite sure. But either way, I love it.
Same here. I definitely love it. But I still have no idea how to rank it among their other albums.There's no way else to say it - TA is a work of art!
Absolutely! The only question is to what extent that also translates into it being a great album. To me, it is easily an extremely good album. Whether it reaches "great" or not, I'm still not quite sure. But either way, I love it.
There's no way else to say it - TA is a work of art!
I compare it this way - 2112=SFAM and La Villa Strangiato = TA.
I am having ongoing technical issues with The Astonishing that are baffling and quite frustrating, and prevents me from listening to it as often as I would like. For some reason, the coding for each track on that album is a mess, and it doesn't help that it is 2 disks. For whatever reason, when downloading the tracks to a hard drive or my phone, they do not appear in order. I have to go in manually and figure out how to get them to show up in the correct order. And then it seems like every time either my music player app or Sonos app updates, it is all screwed up, and I have to figure it out all over again. Quite annoying.I don't know what software you're using, but I know with iTunes, it's good to specify disc 1 and disc 2. So you select all the tracks, do a command-I (on a Mac - don't know the key command on PCs) and then specify the disc numbers. That way all the tracks should fall into place. If you're using some other software, I still would imagine that there is a similar settings window or page for songs/albums.
There's no way else to say it - TA is a work of art!
So is this:
(https://cdn.sanity.io/images/0pofe4lq/production/c6919f8ca694c40fecfbfc4cc878492c53afbdb9-3456x4309.jpg)
So I don't have this "album songs out of order" problem. Having said that, I do feel bad that some of you are. I wish I had a solution for you.
I loved DOT, but I'd love to see DT do something like a 30-40 minute single song or something.
I loved DOT, but I'd love to see DT do something like a 30-40 minute single song or something.
This. I really want a 30+ minute song on the next album. It's been a while since we had a big epic.
As for whether I'd want a 30 minute song on the album, it could be cool, but I don't know if I'd appreciate them actively trying to write a piece that long. I do worry that there would be a lot of fluff if they approached it like "let's write a 30 minutes song" as opposed "let's write a song & if it happens to be 30 minutes then so be it" (the latter was the mindset behind the Six Degrees suite if I remember correctly). It would be interesting for sure, but I wouldn't want it to feel forced.
As for whether I'd want a 30 minute song on the album, it could be cool, but I don't know if I'd appreciate them actively trying to write a piece that long. I do worry that there would be a lot of fluff if they approached it like "let's write a 30 minutes song" as opposed "let's write a song & if it happens to be 30 minutes then so be it" (the latter was the mindset behind the Six Degrees suite if I remember correctly). It would be interesting for sure, but I wouldn't want it to feel forced.
What he said.
D'uh, and it was even there under the avatar! :facepalm: sorry.
What I find funny about the compression discussion is that Falling Into Infinity is "the gold standard" for what an album should sound like for DT, and it's also among the most compressed of them all. Just goes to show that average compression on an album is not always the best way to measure whether something sounds good or not.
2. I know there are some audiophiles on this forum, but I'm not one of them. I just don't see a reason in buying CD's anymore. I always buy my music as mp3's.While I can't speak for anyone else, I like actually having something tangible in my hands. Honestly, I can't tell you the last time I actually listened to a CD, but I like having it instead of just some files sitting on my HD. And even then, when you purchase many CDs on Amazon, they give you the option to download MP3s of the album anyway, so that's always an extra benefit if you don't opt to RIP the CD yourself.
2. I know there are some audiophiles on this forum, but I'm not one of them. I just don't see a reason in buying CD's anymore. I always buy my music as mp3's.While I can't speak for anyone else, I like actually having something tangible in my hands. Honestly, I can't tell you the last time I actually listened to a CD, but I like having it instead of just some files sitting on my HD. And even then, when you purchase many CDs on Amazon, they give you the option to download MP3s of the album anyway, so that's always an extra benefit if you don't opt to RIP the CD yourself.
As for whether I'd want a 30 minute song on the album, it could be cool, but I don't know if I'd appreciate them actively trying to write a piece that long. I do worry that there would be a lot of fluff if they approached it like "let's write a 30 minutes song" as opposed "let's write a song & if it happens to be 30 minutes then so be it" (the latter was the mindset behind the Six Degrees suite if I remember correctly). It would be interesting for sure, but I wouldn't want it to feel forced.
No more 20+ minute songs please. You guys are talented enough to write a song that feels "epic" without being that long. Heck, At Wit's End feels epic and is <10 minutes.
I only want a 20+ minute song if it comes naturally. Illumination Theory sounded so forced to me.
I’d like another album like DoT, a bunch of short concise songs, but with maybe a couple 10-15 minute songs on it.
I only want a 20+ minute song if it comes naturally. Illumination Theory sounded so forced to me.
I’d like another album like DoT, a bunch of short concise songs, but with maybe a couple 10-15 minute songs on it.
What does forced even mean?
I only want a 20+ minute song if it comes naturally. Illumination Theory sounded so forced to me.
I’d like another album like DoT, a bunch of short concise songs, but with maybe a couple 10-15 minute songs on it.
What does forced even mean?
To me, it sounds like they pieced a bunch of random parts together just for the sake of having a 20 minute song. I still like the song, but it doesn’t flow as well as the other ones.
I only want a 20+ minute song if it comes naturally. Illumination Theory sounded so forced to me.
I’d like another album like DoT, a bunch of short concise songs, but with maybe a couple 10-15 minute songs on it.
What does forced even mean?
To me, it sounds like they pieced a bunch of random parts together just for the sake of having a 20 minute song. I still like the song, but it doesn’t flow as well as the other ones.
I have no problem with the "piecing together" of a song like IT (though I don't like the song much). I'd rather that approach than making sections repetitive and drawn out like songs on BC&SL. How the hell is Rite of Passage almost 9 minutes long?
How the hell is Rite of Passage almost 9 minutes long?
How the hell is Rite of Passage almost 9 minutes long?
4 minute verse / chorus song with a 4 minute jam slapped in the middle, easy.
I have no problem with the "piecing together" of a song like IT (though I don't like the song much). I'd rather that approach than making sections repetitive and drawn out like songs on BC&SL. How the hell is Rite of Passage almost 9 minutes long?
This. Most songs on Black Clouds feel longer than they should. AROP, TBOT and ANTR feel like that to me, for example.
I have no problem with the "piecing together" of a song like IT (though I don't like the song much). I'd rather that approach than making sections repetitive and drawn out like songs on BC&SL. How the hell is Rite of Passage almost 9 minutes long?
This. Most songs on Black Clouds feel longer than they should. AROP, TBOT and ANTR feel like that to me, for example.
TBOT is 13:09 too long.
How the hell is Rite of Passage almost 9 minutes long?
0:00 Intro A
0:19 Intro B
0:38 Intro C
0:56 Verse 1
1:31 Pre-Chorus 1
1:49 Chorus 1
2:25 Fill
2:31 Intro B
2:50 Intro C
2:59 Verse 2
3:34 Pre-Chorus 2
3:53 Chorus 2
4:27 Fill
4:34 Intro B
4:52 Riff A
5:19 Riff B (Guitar solo starts)
5:32 Riff A
5:47 Riff C
6:00 Riff A
6:12 Riff B (Keys solo starts)
6:25 Riff A
6:40 Riff C (eeeeeerrrrrr)
6:53 Riff A (beep boop beep boop)
7:06 Transition out
7:14 Chorus 3
7:49 Fill
7:56 Intro B
8:14 Intro C
TBOT is all kinds of awesome!
TBOT is all kinds of awesome!
I think it’s perfect if we cut off that slow intro. Much better begginning with that “spirit of radio intro” section.
I think that SC and BC&SL are the only DT albums that would benefit with some editions in some songs.
And TA the only DT album that would benefit with some editions in many songs. :biggrin:
Cut off the slow intro??? :omg: Are ya daft man? :facepalm: That intro is what gives context to the soaring keyboard part at the 6:11 otherwise removing the intro takes all the emotion out of the song.
... leading me to believe that MP was the one pushing for extending the songs through repetition.
TBOT is all kinds of awesome!
I think it’s perfect if we cut off that slow intro. Much better begginning with that “spirit of radio intro” section.
It should be noted in this thread that James is building a home studio. While he might need it for all sorts of other projects (like his solo album, which is finally cooking properly), it's good news for DT15.Cheers for the heads up, Mora. Just added it (and some other bits by JP that I missed), along with a general clean up of the title page.
I'm not watching that for 50 mins. What did he say ?neither did I really. In a nutshell, he said that the scheduling for DT15 changed and that they will start working on DT15 proper in the Autumn of this year. (seeing as MM announced that he will not do any masterclasses anytime soon. So that will mean "work" will resume soon, as it were. MM stopping doing masterclasses is not what JP said though. Sorry if that may be misunderstood.)
Sweet! That could be as early as next month!
Normally bands leave *at least* three months from the end of mastering to the release date. 8 - 9 months is a bit excessive imo.
Isn't three months the more or less universally adopted timeframe to build up the promotion of the album? announcement, interviews, videos, actual manufacturing and distribution etc.....
Something I would love to see them do for their next album is to not set an arbitrary time limit for themselves in when they need to complete song writing. With this pandemic being what it is, and with them having their own studio now. why not allow the ideas to flow freely and to follow their muse? After tapping it out, they can select the best songs that fit together to make an album, and have a bunch of left over tracks that they can use for B-sides and/or a mid-tour secondary release, be it a full album or maybe an EP. Had they not been forced to continue writing back in 1996-97 for what became Falling Into Infinity, Trial of Tears, Cover My Eyes, Hollow Years, New Millennium and Speak to Me would never exist.I agree with most, if not all of this. I only would wish for two things (taking your "requests" (for lack of a more friendly word) into account as well): Put all the things you mentioned on the audio Bluray with a very dynamic mix (as with D/T, which was great IMHO) and release the audio Bluray combined with the CD version separately from a box set release as well. (so people wanting the hi res version don't need to buy a box set just for the audio Bluray.) Now for my other wish: DT15 should be as prog and as difficult and technical and as weird as possible. Them going fully blown bonkers, even on a double album, if you catch my drift. (that would entail Mike using his large kit again of course) Long pieces too. But either way, I'm as excited as can be right now. Sorry about being non-neutral.
And yeah, some other extras like an in-studio documentary, alternate versions of the album tracks (and by that, I don't mean just acoustic versions), another batch of interesting covers and/or the stems of at least some if not all the tracks on the album would be nice to have for a deluxe edition.
I'm not watching that for 50 mins. What did he say ?neither did I really. In a nutshell, he said that the scheduling for DT15 changed and that they will start working on DT15 proper in the Autumn of this year. (seeing as MM announced that he will not do any masterclasses anytime soon. So that will mean "work" will resume soon, as it were. MM stopping doing masterclasses is not what JP said though. Sorry if that may be misunderstood.)
But whilst Portnoy takes a week to write and record an album and all his projects sound identical
I'd like to see them experimenting a bit and maybe have each member (most likely not James, tho) bring a full song to the band sessions. Those wouldn't necessarily make it to the proper album, but since Inside Out always likes to offer special editions with bonus tracks, they could work as nice extras.
I notice you didn't try to refute my claim.I haven't listened to any of his projects, they don't interest me that much. My point still stands though, rather random comment to make. Seems Portnoy still lives rent free in some peoples heads 10 years after his departure.
Looks like DT is going to start writing for the new album this fall.this is what I indicated on the title page. It is constantly updated to reflect new developments.
https://metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/in-the-studio/dream-theater-to-work-on-a-new-album-this-fall
I notice you didn't try to refute my claim.I haven't listened to any of his projects, they don't interest me that much. My point still stands though, rather random comment to make. Seems Portnoy still lives rent free in some peoples heads 10 years after his departure.
I notice you didn't try to refute my claim.I haven't listened to any of his projects, they don't interest me that much. My point still stands though, rather random comment to make. Seems Portnoy still lives rent free in some peoples heads 10 years after his departure.
So You havent listened to any of them but you just know they don't all sound the same.
Weird Flex But Ok.
The thread is about the next DT album.Which MP will have nothing to do with, just as he hasn't for the last 4 albums. Therefore, your excuse of trying to include him is rendered moot.
By the way, I'd like to say two things concerning this thread: 1.) In case you may find new relevant information before me (which is possible), please post it here and I'll add it in to the title page.
2.) How do you like the new "streamlined" design of the title page? Any requests or ideas for improvement?
they might not have anything to do with DT15, or they actually might. I didn't know at the time. I still don't now. Then again, John's post might have been related to Terminal Velocity.By the way, I'd like to say two things concerning this thread: 1.) In case you may find new relevant information before me (which is possible), please post it here and I'll add it in to the title page.
2.) How do you like the new "streamlined" design of the title page? Any requests or ideas for improvement?
I just looked back at the first post in the thread for the first time since the thread was created, and I have a question (or I guess more of a comment).
On May 20, 2020, JR posted a picture of a screen of music notation with the caption, "In case you are wondering what I’m working on in the studio." Why are you interpreting that to mean that he is "collecting ideas" in connection with DT15?
Similarly, on April 14, 2020, JP posted a photo of one of his guitars with the caption (in pertinent part), "spending many hours practicing and creating a lot of music on this beauty!" Again, you've got this under the "collecting ideas" heading.
Seems to me that neither of these posts have anything to do with DT15.
The thread is about the next DT album.Which MP will have nothing to do with, just as he hasn't for the last 4 albums. Therefore, your excuse of trying to include him is rendered moot.
That said, you famously like to throw out every negative comment about MP as quickly as you can, so this shouldn't be surprising.
^ Hope this helps.
Relax cupcake I was mostly joking around.As was I, sweetheart. :-*
edited to include most recent info (https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/3239221159459953 -"[...] Oct into Nov is booked[...]")
D/T was recorded from June-September of 2018 and released in Febuary of 2019 yes. (or, to be a bit more exact, the writing stage was from June-July of 2018 (in some period of 18 days in that month) and then recording was from July 18th to September 14th of 2018)edited to include most recent info (https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/3239221159459953 -"[...] Oct into Nov is booked[...]")
I follow MM on Facebook, read this but didn't connect the dots at all :facepalm:
If that IS the case, how soon can we expect an album? DoT was recorded during the summer and released next February, yes?
edited to include most recent info (https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/3239221159459953 -"[...] Oct into Nov is booked[...]")
I follow MM on Facebook, read this but didn't connect the dots at all :facepalm:
If that IS the case, how soon can we expect an album? DoT was recorded during the summer and released next February, yes?
this time around, (owing to the current situation) I wouldn't be surprised if they were to start the process with at least some things being pre-written already, but what do we know innit.edited to include most recent info (https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/3239221159459953 -"[...] Oct into Nov is booked[...]")
I follow MM on Facebook, read this but didn't connect the dots at all :facepalm:
If that IS the case, how soon can we expect an album? DoT was recorded during the summer and released next February, yes?
I said it in a few posts before, but every MM-era DT album (aside from TA) has had 8 months from the beginning of recording to the album's release date. If recording for DT15 is starting in October 2020, then we can expect to get DT15 in June 2021 (assuming it's not another double-CD rock opera).
every MM-era DT album (aside from TA) has had 8 months from the beginning of recording to the album's release date. If recording for DT15 is starting in October 2020, then we can expect to get DT15 in June 2021.
Interesting that only a month has been booked (that we know of), could that mean they plan to spend that month only writing and demoing (via Zoom or whatever) and then everyone recording remotely?
Interesting that only a month has been booked (that we know of), could that mean they plan to spend that month only writing and demoing (via Zoom or whatever) and then everyone recording remotely?
There's a few possibilities here:
1) You're right & everything will be recorded remotely.
2) Trav is right & they're going to take a break from recording for the holidays.
3) MM will do Zoom lessons alongside recording, but wants to focus on recording completely for the first two months (when most or all of the composition will probably take place).
4) The band wants to split up the recording process into smaller parts instead of one continuous 5ish-month session (the other 3 months in the 8 months I mentioned was dedicated to mastering & promotion).
5) The recording session is actually for an EP & not a full album.
6) MM's unavailability for those months is for something completely unrelated & JP was wrong about them being able to go into the studio in nothern Autumn.
Interesting that only a month has been booked (that we know of), could that mean they plan to spend that month only writing and demoing (via Zoom or whatever) and then everyone recording remotely?
There's a few possibilities here:
1) You're right & everything will be recorded remotely.
2) Trav is right & they're going to take a break from recording for the holidays.
3) MM will do Zoom lessons alongside recording, but wants to focus on recording completely for the first two months (when most or all of the composition will probably take place).
4) The band wants to split up the recording process into smaller parts instead of one continuous 5ish-month session (the other 3 months in the 8 months I mentioned was dedicated to mastering & promotion).
5) The recording session is actually for an EP & not a full album.
6) MM's unavailability for those months is for something completely unrelated & JP was wrong about them being able to go into the studio in nothern Autumn.
Another Dream Theater EP would be really interesting! It would be a cool way for them to use some of their unused song ideas that don't have much relation to one another into a smaller package. Or maybe even, just one long epic track like ACOS again.
Another album in the style of Distance Over Time would do me.
I'd rather another 60 - 75 minute album with 9 - 10 tracks of decent length.
Another album in the style of Distance Over Time would do me.
I'm so over 20+ minute songs and Illumination theory was hardly one of their best 'epics'.
Since Octavarium the quality has really dropped.
ITPOE part 1 is good but i don't really like Part 2. The Count of Tuscany is not bad but it's no Octavarium and Illumination Theory is patchy.
I'd rather another 60 - 75 minute album with 9 - 10 tracks of decent length.
No more :
9 : The Epic Epic of Epic
i. blah
ii. blah de blah
iii. blahhhhh
iv. Blah de bla blah
v. Blah reprise
----
OH AND PLEASE - another pro - shot live in the studio DVD. We've not really had one since Systematic Chaos. That was way back in 2007.
If DT15 comes out next year - that's very nearly 15 years.
While I agree this compact song approach is working really well for them, since the last 3 albums have been all about shorter songs (exept IT), I'd like to see a change this time, and wouldn't mind getting an album with longer songs or a big epic.I am in this camp and really love IT and ItPoE 1&2 played as one song.
OK guys, so, as was posted today, DT will postpone the Australian dates into next year.Where was this posted? The official website still shows the Australian and Japanese dates happening in November.
here: https://www.facebook.com/TheDreamTheaterWorld/posts/4358118274263480 (and on DT's Facebook as well here: https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/posts/10157351340577181) And yes, I know it would have been wiser of me to indicate the links right away. Sorry.OK guys, so, as was posted today, DT will postpone the Australian dates into next year.Where was this posted? The official website still shows the Australian and Japanese dates happening in November.
My wish list is that DT fans stop bitching and whining about what they want and what they don't want.
My wish list is that DT fans stop bitching and whining about what they want and what they don't want.
Perhaps a more organic approach to the vocals. . JLB has a very nice natural sounding voice, so stay away from the chorus effect. Delay is ok because it gives a live feel to the music, but chorus changes the tone too much.
Thanks for those links, Max. Makes me wonder why they didn't post the same/similar thing for the Japanese dates....here: https://www.facebook.com/TheDreamTheaterWorld/posts/4358118274263480 (and on DT's Facebook as well here: https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/posts/10157351340577181) And yes, I know it would have been wiser of me to indicate the links right away. Sorry.OK guys, so, as was posted today, DT will postpone the Australian dates into next year.Where was this posted? The official website still shows the Australian and Japanese dates happening in November.
I mean if we can get an album with songs as diverse as in SFAM, like home is just wow!You mean with it's 46 and 2 inspired bass line? ;) ;D
I just hope they have fun while creating the new music.
I really don’t know where they would go from D/T. They’ve almost written every type of song you could ask from the band. I suppose I’d like to see a 30 odd minute song from them just to see how they’d approach it structure-wise and maybe another instrumental. Maybe a suite like mind beside itself? All I know is they tend to do something at least slightly different each time so I’m not expecting D/T#2. I enjoy everything they put out anyway so I’m sure whatever they write will make me happy.
-Mandatory neo-metal/djenting... Unless it serves a purpose higher than pleasing the nowadays teenagers :D
DT are teasing big news coming soon in their social media accounts. Most likely it'll be about the new live album, but they're supposed to start working on DT15 very soon, so I'm posting this here as it might be related.for now it is, but then again (remember James is at a place like the barn), they may speak about DT15 starting as well. What do we know innit. It might be both. Either way, I'll update the thread once we know a bit more.
Edit: Nevermind, it's about the live album :lol
Furthermore, Petrucci let it drop to Revolver that, within a week or two of our conversation, Dream Theater would be heading back into the studio to start work on the follow-up to Distance Over Time. As for what that record might sound like? Your guess is as good as his.
"We're going in fresh," he says. "Between all the things I've been doing, I haven't time for writing. So yeah, we're starting from scratch. Blank page."
sorry mate.QuoteFurthermore, Petrucci let it drop to Revolver that, within a week or two of our conversation, Dream Theater would be heading back into the studio to start work on the follow-up to Distance Over Time. As for what that record might sound like? Your guess is as good as his.
"We're going in fresh," he says. "Between all the things I've been doing, I haven't time for writing. So yeah, we're starting from scratch. Blank page."
From: https://www.revolvermag.com/music/dream-theater-new-live-album-onstage-mishaps-rehearsing-meat-shops?fbclid=IwAR1O-NW01-cJGWl6wwwq3ZYRIU9fS4Vp1Y5EeBDfW-PUFNCoRE-E2tP2nsg
And I arrived a little late, apparently, Max posted faster :lol
So they’re staying home and ordering pizza this time and breaking their home studio in. Nothing wrong with that 👍well, John recorded Terminal Velocity in there already (and AFAIK it houses some of their storage for the tours too, but I might be wrong), so it has been in use already.
I know that they have their methods and their habits, but I would really love for them to take the pandemic as an opportunity to write as much as they want or write as carefully as they want.I'd not be surprised if it all were to happen exactly (or somewhat closely) as you described just now. I'd love a long, laboured album with longer pieces again.
With the touring world thrown up in the air, there's no pressure at all to deliver the album for a specific date and then start the tour on another specific date. They could write it, sit on it, write some more if touring still can't happen, refine other things, etc.... I mean, when else will they have the luxury of having "all the time in the world" to make an album? take inspiration from an album title, black clouds and silver linings, the little lining in the black hole of a goddamn cloud that is a pandemic and the lack of concerts is that they can write all the time they want. Deliver for once the best 70-80 minutes you have, not the FIRST 70-80 minutes you have which is how some albums went down.
So they’re staying home and ordering pizza this time and breaking their home studio in. Nothing wrong with that 👍well, John recorded Terminal Velocity in there already (and AFAIK it houses some of their storage for the tours too, but I might be wrong), so it has been in use already.
So they’re staying home and ordering pizza this time and breaking their home studio in. Nothing wrong with that 👍
ironically, Mike made the Into The Great Divide album there. (on that console too IIRC.) Back to our guys, I don't see why they wouldn't work at DTHQ.So they’re staying home and ordering pizza this time and breaking their home studio in. Nothing wrong with that 👍
As long as they use their Own Studio.
Dave Grohl made an actual film about Sound City and the Neve Desk and incorporating it into his own Studio 606...
Then the Foo Fighters never once made an album there... ???
EDIT : After a bit of looking - It turns out Echoes, Silence, Patience, Grace was recorded at 606 - but not on the Neve board. FF haven't made an album at 606 since the Sound City film.
new funny photo by Jordan directly from HQ: https://www.instagram.com/p/CGD6aV7AM31/
it has begun since the beginning of this month yes.new funny photo by Jordan directly from HQ: https://www.instagram.com/p/CGD6aV7AM31/
So it has begun or it's about to!!
Maaaan, I try not to, but the hype is real already :rollin
new funny photo by Jordan directly from HQ: https://www.instagram.com/p/CGD6aV7AM31/
not that I would know of. (Didn't think so anyway)new funny photo by Jordan directly from HQ: https://www.instagram.com/p/CGD6aV7AM31/
Please tell me they're not going to do another puzzle/game like they did with DOT....
Or is that supposed to be where the bodily remains of Peter Tork are kept?
JP new interview (english audio at the end):
https://headbangersla.com/entrevista-john-petrucci-tengo-la-oportunidad-de-tocar-con-dos-de-los-bateristas-mas-increibles-del-mundo/?fbclid=IwAR2hG1JZyXlvFtXU1vY4DJm0L9AlLWFb4ItD4NkQ_lXvJnlKyNEJNxQmmlU
They are definitely in the studio!
Nothing new in the interview, but, again, the curious fact that JP forgets about the 4th studio album with MM ...
No one ever asks, but I'm still curious as to how he told (or if he did) to MM that Portnoy was going to be the drummer for his new CD.
JP new interview (english audio at the end):
https://headbangersla.com/entrevista-john-petrucci-tengo-la-oportunidad-de-tocar-con-dos-de-los-bateristas-mas-increibles-del-mundo/?fbclid=IwAR2hG1JZyXlvFtXU1vY4DJm0L9AlLWFb4ItD4NkQ_lXvJnlKyNEJNxQmmlU
They are definitely in the studio!
Nothing new in the interview, but, again, the curious fact that JP forgets about the 4th studio album with MM ...
No one ever asks, but I'm still curious as to how he told (or if he did) to MM that Portnoy was going to be the drummer for his new CD.
JP new interview (english audio at the end):
https://headbangersla.com/entrevista-john-petrucci-tengo-la-oportunidad-de-tocar-con-dos-de-los-bateristas-mas-increibles-del-mundo/?fbclid=IwAR2hG1JZyXlvFtXU1vY4DJm0L9AlLWFb4ItD4NkQ_lXvJnlKyNEJNxQmmlU
They are definitely in the studio!
Nothing new in the interview, but, again, the curious fact that JP forgets about the 4th studio album with MM ...
No one ever asks, but I'm still curious as to how he told (or if he did) to MM that Portnoy was going to be the drummer for his new CD.
Why should he have to tell Mangini? It's JP's solo album, he could pick any drummer he wanted, and he chose his close friend since this is the opportunity to play with him again, on an album.
That's why no one asked.
JP new interview (english audio at the end):
https://headbangersla.com/entrevista-john-petrucci-tengo-la-oportunidad-de-tocar-con-dos-de-los-bateristas-mas-increibles-del-mundo/?fbclid=IwAR2hG1JZyXlvFtXU1vY4DJm0L9AlLWFb4ItD4NkQ_lXvJnlKyNEJNxQmmlU
They are definitely in the studio!
Nothing new in the interview, but, again, the curious fact that JP forgets about the 4th studio album with MM ...
No one ever asks, but I'm still curious as to how he told (or if he did) to MM that Portnoy was going to be the drummer for his new CD.
Why should he have to tell Mangini? It's JP's solo album, he could pick any drummer he wanted, and he chose his close friend since this is the opportunity to play with him again, on an album.
That's why no one asked.
JP new interview (english audio at the end):
https://headbangersla.com/entrevista-john-petrucci-tengo-la-oportunidad-de-tocar-con-dos-de-los-bateristas-mas-increibles-del-mundo/?fbclid=IwAR2hG1JZyXlvFtXU1vY4DJm0L9AlLWFb4ItD4NkQ_lXvJnlKyNEJNxQmmlU
They are definitely in the studio!
Nothing new in the interview, but, again, the curious fact that JP forgets about the 4th studio album with MM ...
No one ever asks, but I'm still curious as to how he told (or if he did) to MM that Portnoy was going to be the drummer for his new CD.
Why should he have to tell Mangini? It's JP's solo album, he could pick any drummer he wanted, and he chose his close friend since this is the opportunity to play with him again, on an album.
That's why no one asked.
Why? How about, I dunno, professional courtesy to a fellow bandmate? Not that it would ever happen but maybe he thought that some people would overreact that MP was playing on his solo album and speculate MP was going to be back in DT and he didn't want MM to be blindsided by that. But of course JP has said that his rule for a solo album means that no members of DT can play on it so he wouldn't asked MM anyway. ::)
He likely told Mangini as a warning how the fans will speculate, and to prepare for the comments.
JP new interview (english audio at the end):
https://headbangersla.com/entrevista-john-petrucci-tengo-la-oportunidad-de-tocar-con-dos-de-los-bateristas-mas-increibles-del-mundo/?fbclid=IwAR2hG1JZyXlvFtXU1vY4DJm0L9AlLWFb4ItD4NkQ_lXvJnlKyNEJNxQmmlU
They are definitely in the studio!
Nothing new in the interview, but, again, the curious fact that JP forgets about the 4th studio album with MM ...
No one ever asks, but I'm still curious as to how he told (or if he did) to MM that Portnoy was going to be the drummer for his new CD.
Why should he have to tell Mangini? It's JP's solo album, he could pick any drummer he wanted, and he chose his close friend since this is the opportunity to play with him again, on an album.
That's why no one asked.
He didn't "have to tell Mangini," but I'd bet a dollar that he did. If nothing else, it would be a professional courtesy to tell his business partners (all of them) that he's doing something outside the scope of the band. My guess would be that, in telling MM, he said something like, "hey Mike, I'm doing this solo album that I mentioned a while back. I'm getting Joe Blow to play bass and I'm going to ask Mike Portnoy to play drums. Of course, that will make a bunch of numbnuts on the internet start to speculate about whether he's coming back to DT. Just a heads up for ya."
JP new interview (english audio at the end):
https://headbangersla.com/entrevista-john-petrucci-tengo-la-oportunidad-de-tocar-con-dos-de-los-bateristas-mas-increibles-del-mundo/?fbclid=IwAR2hG1JZyXlvFtXU1vY4DJm0L9AlLWFb4ItD4NkQ_lXvJnlKyNEJNxQmmlU
They are definitely in the studio!
Nothing new in the interview, but, again, the curious fact that JP forgets about the 4th studio album with MM ...
No one ever asks, but I'm still curious as to how he told (or if he did) to MM that Portnoy was going to be the drummer for his new CD.
Why should he have to tell Mangini? It's JP's solo album, he could pick any drummer he wanted, and he chose his close friend since this is the opportunity to play with him again, on an album.
That's why no one asked.
He didn't "have to tell Mangini," but I'd bet a dollar that he did. If nothing else, it would be a professional courtesy to tell his business partners (all of them) that he's doing something outside the scope of the band. My guess would be that, in telling MM, he said something like, "hey Mike, I'm doing this solo album that I mentioned a while back. I'm getting Joe Blow to play bass and I'm going to ask Mike Portnoy to play drums. Of course, that will make a bunch of numbnuts on the internet start to speculate about whether he's coming back to DT. Just a heads up for ya."
99% that's exactly how it went down.
I'm more moderately curious to know if Petrucci told Portnoy "listen, I have to publicy smash down the reunion rumors, you understand right?" before his statement about a reunion not simply happening.
He likely told Mangini as a warning how the fans will speculate, and to prepare for the comments.
JP even said in a recent interview that he was hesitant at first, because he knew these kind of comments would definitely appear, but that it was his opportunity to work with both phenomenal drummers :metal
why so certain? :D (seriously though, that was my approach going into DT14, and then D/T came out of it and it was a MAJOR curveball and challenged that attitude. (extremely)He likely told Mangini as a warning how the fans will speculate, and to prepare for the comments.
JP even said in a recent interview that he was hesitant at first, because he knew these kind of comments would definitely appear, but that it was his opportunity to work with both phenomenal drummers :metal
Back to topic, tho, I'm really excited for the new album, and while it's way too soon to have any updates on how things are going, I know it'll be a great one :hefdaddy
why so certain? :D (seriously though, that was my approach going into DT14, and then D/T came out of it and it was a MAJOR curveball and challenged that attitude. (extremely)He likely told Mangini as a warning how the fans will speculate, and to prepare for the comments.
JP even said in a recent interview that he was hesitant at first, because he knew these kind of comments would definitely appear, but that it was his opportunity to work with both phenomenal drummers :metal
Back to topic, tho, I'm really excited for the new album, and while it's way too soon to have any updates on how things are going, I know it'll be a great one :hefdaddy
why so certain? :D (seriously though, that was my approach going into DT14, and then D/T came out of it and it was a MAJOR curveball and challenged that attitude. (extremely)He likely told Mangini as a warning how the fans will speculate, and to prepare for the comments.
JP even said in a recent interview that he was hesitant at first, because he knew these kind of comments would definitely appear, but that it was his opportunity to work with both phenomenal drummers :metal
Back to topic, tho, I'm really excited for the new album, and while it's way too soon to have any updates on how things are going, I know it'll be a great one :hefdaddy
Maybe it's just me, but I enjoy all their albums. Sure, some aren't as good as others, but they're still very good. I'm just excited about new music from my favorite band.
of course (and as always) I'm cautiously optimistic (even hyped to some degree and definitely relieved that DT are still active too Especially in these times. I'll be back here once there is anything new to report.why so certain? :D (seriously though, that was my approach going into DT14, and then D/T came out of it and it was a MAJOR curveball and challenged that attitude. (extremely)He likely told Mangini as a warning how the fans will speculate, and to prepare for the comments.
JP even said in a recent interview that he was hesitant at first, because he knew these kind of comments would definitely appear, but that it was his opportunity to work with both phenomenal drummers :metal
Back to topic, tho, I'm really excited for the new album, and while it's way too soon to have any updates on how things are going, I know it'll be a great one :hefdaddy
Maybe it's just me, but I enjoy all their albums. Sure, some aren't as good as others, but they're still very good. I'm just excited about new music from my favorite band.
I'll tell you that it is translating to music you'll hear in 2021 that's nothing short of a flame thrower on cotton candy."
I'll tell you that it is translating to music you'll hear in 2021 that's nothing short of a flame thrower on cotton candy."
:corn :metal
I'll tell you that it is translating to music you'll hear in 2021 that's nothing short of a flame thrower on cotton candy."
:corn :metal
Interesting quote. Does that imply that they’re gonna get even heavier?
Updated to include most recent information ("Great comments. 2020 ... it's like Alice in Wonderland Annihilator Style - meaning the opposite. I'll tell you that it is translating to music you'll hear in 2021 that's nothing short of a flame thrower on cotton candy. Enuff said for now. There's a lot of work to do." - Mike responding to his obituary post for Ed. They are progressing well, it seems.)
As I said, I just hope they break out of the traditional formula of "We have to make an album in these four weeks because the tour is being booked". The only good thing about not being able to tour *AND* owning your own studio is that you can work on an album as much as you want, and refine is as much as you want.Couldn't agree more. In fact, I would take it a step further and hope that they just continue to write more music, following their muse, until it is finally tapped out. They always comment about how they have so many ideas and that it's a struggle to find a place for them to include them all. So use the time you have to find places for all of them! Don't limit yourself to roughly 75 minutes. Keep writing and see where it goes. Then when they finally get to an end point of writing, after finishing off the songs, pick out the best ones and/or most cohesive collection of songs for the album, and use the extra tracks as bonus tracks, B-sides, tracks for movie soundtracks, and the eventual compilation releases. Had they not done something similar with FII (altho under admittedly different circumstances), we would've never gotten Trial of Tears, Cover My Eyes, Hollow Years, Speak to Me or New Millennium, and perhaps a few others. So doing prolonged writing sessions can really be beneficial, not just in creating more material, but (depending on who you ask), better material.
I am in full support of everything Scotty posted.I generally am. :biggrin:
My very favorite album, Awake, came through their usual process, so it's not like they can't make classic albums by just going into the studio and writing about 70 minutes of music. Then again, maybe it was a lineup thing, the KM songs elevate Awake to a whole new level for me. Some people don't vibe with his songs or some of the stuff JP wrote and they rate it lower.
I've been a supporter of what Scotty said ever since I learned how most of the material on IAW and SFAM and ACOS came to be.Funny that you bring this up - specifically about IaW. Because originally Surrounded, AD and especially PMU didn't exist originally. It was only because Derek Oliver encouraged them to write some new songs while things were getting sorted out, that they ended up writing the song that put their career on the trajectory that it's been on. Imagine if PMU never happened. Would this forum, or even the band itself, exist at the present time? Maybe not. And while I don't expect that they will write another song that will have as much of an impact as PMU did, they give themselves a better chance at doing so by not limiting themselves to writing just an album's worth of music.
Glad you all are in agreement. I just hope the band has similar thinking on the subject. To not do so, especially given the perfect storm of the current circumstances (have their own studio, no deadline for releasing an album, no time table for an upcoming tour) would be short changing themselves and the fans.
How about a double album in the vain of 6DOIT? One disk with a massive epic (this satisfies us who would like another long epic), and a disc with shorter more concise tunes like DOT?
How about a double album in the vain of 6DOIT? One disk with a massive epic (this satisfies us who would like another long epic), and a disc with shorter more concise tunes like DOT?
Just to clarify...when you refer to "the KM songs" and "his songs," you're talking about SDV (written entirely by KM) and what else? He wrote lyrics for 6:00 and Lie, but the music for those songs was composed by the band as a whole.In the Awake liner notes MP says 6:00 was 80% Kevin's. Lie is more of a whole band thing, but his newer (at the time) influences are pretty visible in it, since he worked on the vocal melodies alone.
How about a double album in the vain of 6DOIT? One disk with a massive epic (this satisfies us who would like another long epic), and a disc with shorter more concise tunes like DOT?How about a double album in the vein
Sure. If it's good.
How about a double album in the vein of Tales from Topographic Oceans with four songs that are roughly 20 minutes long each?
Sure. If it's good.
How about an album with nothing but four minute hit singles?
Sure. If it's good.
In the Awake liner notes MP says 6:00 was 80% Kevin's.
I am in full support of everything Scotty posted.
But I did sigh a little when I first read that Black Clouds & Silver Linings was only 6 tracks long.
Funny that you bring this up - specifically about IaW. Because originally Surrounded, AD and especially PMU didn't exist originally. It was only because Derek Oliver encouraged them to write some new songs while things were getting sorted out...
Funny that you bring this up - specifically about IaW. Because originally Surrounded, AD and especially PMU didn't exist originally. It was only because Derek Oliver encouraged them to write some new songs while things were getting sorted out...
Huh, I never knew that! Did they just think they had enough material?
Although WFS was added later too. So initially, the tracks that they were going to record were (in no specific order):They had Don't Look Past Me, To Live Forever, & A Change Of Seasons in place of the songs Scotty mentioned (plus Wait For Sleep).Funny that you bring this up - specifically about IaW. Because originally Surrounded, AD and especially PMU didn't exist originally. It was only because Derek Oliver encouraged them to write some new songs while things were getting sorted out...Huh, I never knew that! Did they just think they had enough material?
I knew about TLF, but did not realize ACoS was at a point where they considered it 'album ready.'It was - but in it's original form. I take it you haven't read the Lifting Shadows biography, because the topic of how the band weren't permitted to record ACoS for IaW is mentioned in there. IIRC, they were told on the first day of recording that they wouldn't be permitted to record it, so the sessions started on a down note.
I have not read Lifting Shadows and do not know much about the band's early history so I am sorry if I am ignorant about stuff most hardcore fans know.No apology necessary Chris. But you should pick up a copy of the biography. It's a great read and I'm sure you'll find a lot of interesting tidbits that you didn't know about, just like this. ;)
yes, it's a worthwhile read. As I always say, reading Lifting Shadows is as exciting as DT's music. Seriously.I have not read Lifting Shadows and do not know much about the band's early history so I am sorry if I am ignorant about stuff most hardcore fans know.No apology necessary Chris. But you should pick up a copy of the biography. It's a great read and I'm sure you'll find a lot of interesting tidbits that you didn't know about, just like this. ;)
I'm sorry, it's the Awake *demos* liner notes. I don't have the physical release, but on the youtube video that has all the demos, someone uploaded scans of the thing, that's where I read that.In the Awake liner notes MP says 6:00 was 80% Kevin's.
My Awake CD booklet contains no such notes.
So initially, the tracks that they were going to record were (in no specific order):This is still a fantastic album. But it's not as iconic as the one we ended up with. And the version of ACoS that would have ended up on this album doesn't beat the version we would have gotten later. When you listen to ACoS '95, you kind of hear it all, all the circumstances, all the frustrations, Derek is out to prove himself, the lyrics are sharp as fuck.
Metropolis
Don't Look Past Me
To Live Forever
Take the Time
Under a Glass Moon
Learning to Live
A Change of Seasons
Funny that you bring this up - specifically about IaW. Because originally Surrounded, AD and especially PMU didn't exist originally. It was only because Derek Oliver encouraged them to write some new songs while things were getting sorted out...
Huh, I never knew that! Did they just think they had enough material?
I knew about TLF, but did not realize ACoS was at a point where they considered it 'album ready.'
But you should pick up a copy of the biography. It's a great read and I'm sure you'll find a lot of interesting tidbits that you didn't know about, just like this. ;)
I'm sorry, it's the Awake *demos* liner notes.
I've been meaning to get the Lifting Shadows book, not sure why I haven't yet. So many sales came and went, I'll have to hunt the updated version.
Have you heard the live version from the March 4, 1993 NYC show? If not, I highly recommend it. There are many significant differences from the version that was released two years later. I acquired a cassette copy of that show via *Prodigy sometime in late 1993 and was blown away by the song. Then, when they released it in 1995, I went back and revisited it and was quite interested to hear how much it had changed.
Dang... I remember Prodigy. My rich kid friend (did everyone have that one friend growing up who was part of a wealthy family?) had Prodigy circa '93. My family didn't even have a computer. He met a girl in South (or was in North) Dakota via Prodigy. They fell in love. It was weird. All his friends couldn't understand how he 1) fell in love with with someone he a) never met in person, and b) lived 1,000 miles away, and 2) did it via a computer.
I've never even heard of Prodigy.
I really hope they continue what ever they did with DoT. The sound and energy is great and they got Mangini onboard! Even the length is something I appreciated. SDOIT is ofc the best albums ever created, but I don't feel any band could ever produce two such masterpieces in their lifetime. POS Panther also reminds me of how awesome "shorter" albums with great flow that never feels "draggy" us! DoT nearly succeeded perfectly with this.well, we will see how it will turn out, but it has always been DT's "rule" (as it were) to never make the same record twice. (and that's a good thing IMHO) Some people here (myself included in this case) mentioned longer pieces again, because it's been seven years since the last one (just saying)
About ACoS:I can relate - I was in a similar boat. Long before Awake was released, I had TDoE bootleg too. Can't say that I was of the belief that ACoS was written after the fact, since I read an article/interview with Charlie and KevMo from 1989 and Charlie commented on a song they were currently working on then that was up to 18 minutes in length, which I assumed was ACoS. Nonetheless, I expected that it would be on Awake. But the manager of a music store that I happened to frequent by mid-94 had attended the Concrete Forums gig that JR played at, and she very specifically told me that ACoS would not be on it, much to my dismay.
I have heard ACoS for the first time on The Dance of Eternity bootleg, that is from that 93' NY show - the same recording of the official bootleg release years later. I was not aware of the circunstances that ACoS was composed for I&W, but didn't make the final cut. By listening to that bootleg, I immediately thouhgt the song was totally amazing and I also thought that it was composed after the release of I&W. So you can imagine my deception when I bought Awake and in the back cover I didn't saw ACoS listed there...
Cool story, Scotty, we are dinosaurs... Only now I realised that that JR show with DT was before Awake was released!a week before my fourth birthday too :D
Cool story, Scotty, we are dinosaurs... Only now I realised that that JR show with DT was before Awake was released!a week before my fourth birthday too :D
John just mentioned on the live Q&A that there's a cameraman there with them at the studio filming the writing process. Hope this means we get a documentary.
OK - I think I missed the boat. Are DT in the studio writing??? :omg:The boat already set sail! :biggrin:
yes, I laughed about it too. I'll include it in the timeline, hold on. Done.John just mentioned on the live Q&A that there's a cameraman there with them at the studio filming the writing process. Hope this means we get a documentary.
He did say they hope to have that included, so we can see how psychotic they are with writing. That was a great story about how many interpretations they all play with for 4 notes, and then come to an agreement and say, that's the one. :rollin
It was also confirmed that we are getting this album earlier than expected, due to the pandemic pushing their schedule up.
Also, That was a great cameo there by Mangini...He just wants to play "DHARTS" (accent).
great quip Scotty. Lovely lovely. Couldn't have done it better myself (seeing as I'm bad at being funny. Comes with being born in Germany.)OK - I think I missed the boat. Are DT in the studio writing??? :omg:The boat already set sail! :biggrin:
great quip Scotty. Lovely lovely. Couldn't have done it better myself (seeing as I'm bad at being funny. Comes with being born in Germany.)OK - I think I missed the boat. Are DT in the studio writing??? :omg:The boat already set sail! :biggrin:
hence why I changed the thread title to process initiated.great quip Scotty. Lovely lovely. Couldn't have done it better myself (seeing as I'm bad at being funny. Comes with being born in Germany.)OK - I think I missed the boat. Are DT in the studio writing??? :omg:The boat already set sail! :biggrin:
Well scheisse! I knew they were planning on heading into the studio but didn't know they were actually there.
I guess Hunnus was too focused on his SHITTY Dallas Cowboys FOOTBALL TEAM!!!! :censored
You know what I just thought of, and made me more excited. Is the fact we are gonna get more newer songs available for the upcoming tour setlist. Hopefully that'll be soon.Rather it means a whole new tour and setlist - no more SFaM in full! Yay! I love the album, but tire of full album performances that take up half the show, especially when performed almost exactly like what's already on the album.
weeell, once it's safe enough to tour again that is. But yes, I'm somewhat excited for DT15 (and an album-free second set as well)You know what I just thought of, and made me more excited. Is the fact we are gonna get more newer songs available for the upcoming tour setlist. Hopefully that'll be soon.Rather it means a whole new tour and setlist - no more SFaM in full! Yay! I love the album, but tire of full album performances that take up half the show, especially when performed almost exactly like what's already on the album.
That is if they continue the ‘evening with’ format. They might start bringing opening bands out again. I hope not but you never know.weeell, once it's safe enough to tour again that is. But yes, I'm somewhat excited for DT15 (and an album-free second set as well)You know what I just thought of, and made me more excited. Is the fact we are gonna get more newer songs available for the upcoming tour setlist. Hopefully that'll be soon.Rather it means a whole new tour and setlist - no more SFaM in full! Yay! I love the album, but tire of full album performances that take up half the show, especially when performed almost exactly like what's already on the album.
You know what I just thought of, and made me more excited. Is the fact we are gonna get more newer songs available for the upcoming tour setlist. Hopefully that'll be soon.Rather it means a whole new tour and setlist - no more SFaM in full! Yay! I love the album, but tire of full album performances that take up half the show, especially when performed almost exactly like what's already on the album.
You know what I just thought of, and made me more excited. Is the fact we are gonna get more newer songs available for the upcoming tour setlist. Hopefully that'll be soon.Rather it means a whole new tour and setlist - no more SFaM in full! Yay! I love the album, but tire of full album performances that take up half the show, especially when performed almost exactly like what's already on the album.
I'm so looking forward to a non-anniversary-full-album-performance show! It's pretty crazy to think that the last "normal setlist" DT show was back on 2014 (from which Awake and SFAM took a big chunk of, so that was not entirely a varied show lol). I remember being so excited when the Luna Park setlist was announced because it was so much music from so many albums and I hope for something similar to that in the upcoming future.
I do hope for another conceptually tied album like Octavarium, that does not really lyrically tell a story but rather has an underlying theme and ties the whole thing together. I love it when DT does that, and it's been years since they last put out an album with that in mind.
You know what I just thought of, and made me more excited. Is the fact we are gonna get more newer songs available for the upcoming tour setlist. Hopefully that'll be soon.Rather it means a whole new tour and setlist - no more SFaM in full! Yay! I love the album, but tire of full album performances that take up half the show, especially when performed almost exactly like what's already on the album.
I do hope for another conceptually tied album like Octavarium, that does not really lyrically tell a story but rather has an underlying theme and ties the whole thing together. I love it when DT does that, and it's been years since they last put out an album with that in mind.
I'm really hoping this time around they'll write at least one really long song (like ~15 minutes). I appreciate the more concise songs they've been doing, but i kind of miss this.
59 minutes and 20 minutes would fill up a CD on their own.
Also I hope DT never do the "80 minute single track" thing. *UNLESS* It's one continuous piece of music with selectable mini-sections a la Six Degrees.
An album with two 20+ minute epics + 3 or 4 shorter tracks in between would be really cool and something they haven't really done before.
Drum parts completedWhere did he say that? Didn't notice it in the video you linked.
Updated to include most recent information (https://www.instagram.com/p/CH8dS-0Bwna/) Drum parts completed
Man that is insanely quick. Feels like they just started writing!It is. And yes, they started last month. (as Mike mentioned)
I'm really hoping this time around they'll write at least one really long song (like ~15 minutes). I appreciate the more concise songs they've been doing, but i kind of miss this.
This. I really want them to write longer songs again.
Honestly, I am not expecting a damn thing. Expectations lead to disappointment.Yeah me too, going in to DoT I had high hopes about the return to form they claimed and was kinda of hoping to bring the old long song format with the cool instrumental sections..So nothing to expect just waiting what their next direction will be as far as song writing and presentation..but I'll say it again, I'm not expecting something radical different from their last album..at least sound wise.
While I'm not on principle demanding a 20 minutes song from DT with each and every release, I'm not sure I want to live in a world where bands think "eh, why bother with writing a long song, on Spotify we get paid the same for shorter songs".
While I'm not on principle demanding a 20 minutes song from DT with each and every release, I'm not sure I want to live in a world where bands think "eh, why bother with writing a long song, on Spotify we get paid the same for shorter songs".
Well, that is a world you have to live in if there really is a drastic cut in revenues on gigs because of a pandemic. These guys need to make a living.
....as if these streaming sites are really putting food on their tables.... ::)While I'm not on principle demanding a 20 minutes song from DT with each and every release, I'm not sure I want to live in a world where bands think "eh, why bother with writing a long song, on Spotify we get paid the same for shorter songs".Well, that is a world you have to live in if there really is a drastic cut in revenues on gigs because of a pandemic. These guys need to make a living.
....as if these streaming sites are really putting food on their tables.... ::)While I'm not on principle demanding a 20 minutes song from DT with each and every release, I'm not sure I want to live in a world where bands think "eh, why bother with writing a long song, on Spotify we get paid the same for shorter songs".Well, that is a world you have to live in if there really is a drastic cut in revenues on gigs because of a pandemic. These guys need to make a living.
They comfirm that the album will come out fall 2021. So hopefully on the road 2022.
Bass drum on DT15 confirmed then.the same setup as on D/T (meaning his small kit) and a similar mic setup as during the D/T sessions
They comfirm that the album will come out fall 2021. So hopefully on the road 2022.
Where was that confirmed? I thought it would be earlier than fall.
So this pretty much confirms drum tracks are done, since Mike already returned home and that's his DT touring kit (and apparently DT15 studio kit) and not his home studio kit.what he meant was probably this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sDyhyC8A5k (Mike mentioned something along these lines, but remember, this was before the pandemic came up). But as we know, nothing is confirmed about DT15 (that we know as of now, other than it being currently made of course)They comfirm that the album will come out fall 2021. So hopefully on the road 2022.
Where was that confirmed? I thought it would be earlier than fall.
Yeah, I'm wondering where they said this too. I was expecting this one to drop around May or June 2021, but it would make sense to hold the release date a bit untill tour dates are closer.
After the release of the The Holiday Spirit Carries On, MM has put a couple of things on FB regarding the new album:
On polyrhythms: The new album has INSANE ones beyond Pale Blue Dot. I think you'll love it.
On the drums used on the Holiday song: They are the basic drums on the next album.
Between d/t, which is my favorite-sounding Dream Theater album in years, and Distant Memories, which I think is one of their best-sounding live albums, I feel like DT15 is going to end lives with its sonic bliss.
After the release of the The Holiday Spirit Carries On, MM has put a couple of things on FB regarding the new album:Yeees, maties. I'm excited already.
On polyrhythms: The new album has INSANE ones beyond Pale Blue Dot. I think you'll love it.
On the drums used on the Holiday song: They are the basic drums on the next album.
Damn, this recent Jordan interview (where Jordan mentions there's an idea behind the album) is super hard to watch. Some cool moments of Jordan playing piano and giving some thoughtful (and patient) answers, but I cringed many times.
Damn, this recent Jordan interview (where Jordan mentions there's an idea behind the album) is super hard to watch. Some cool moments of Jordan playing piano and giving some thoughtful (and patient) answers, but I cringed many times.
Damn, this recent Jordan interview (where Jordan mentions there's an idea behind the album) is super hard to watch. Some cool moments of Jordan playing piano and giving some thoughtful (and patient) answers, but I cringed many times.
Which interview is this?
Damn, this recent Jordan interview (where Jordan mentions there's an idea behind the album) is super hard to watch. Some cool moments of Jordan playing piano and giving some thoughtful (and patient) answers, but I cringed many times.
Which interview is this?
I think he's referring to this one: https://youtu.be/IES9GIB8U3Q
Does JP really need to make his sound heavier..honestly I think on DoT he sounds really good and quite heavy without losing much definition.
Does JP really need to make his sound heavier..honestly I think on DoT he sounds really good and quite heavy without losing much definition.
https://www.facebook.com/johnpetrucciFB/photos/a.409775855741099/3911752042210112/added and referenced, thank you.
This 8-string head :metal
But Kotow is right .
I think the 8string could provide some nice variety so long as it's used sparingly. What I really hope this isn't is an attempt to catch up to the djenty riffing style that 90% of modern prog metal bands these days are doing, god knows we've got enough of that already and Dream Theater isn't TesseracT.
I think the 8string could provide some nice variety so long as it's used sparingly. What I really hope this isn't is an attempt to catch up to the djenty riffing style that 90% of modern prog metal bands these days are doing, god knows we've got enough of that already and Dream Theater isn't TesseracT.
This. I'm not expecting the 8 string to be featured on more than one or two songs, though, so I don't think the album will turn into Djent Theater.
I am absolutely sure that an 8-string guitar can be used in an interesting way (although no one has achieved this in a heavy metal band or similar). :lol
Sorry, thought I included the link. :facepalm:Damn, this recent Jordan interview (where Jordan mentions there's an idea behind the album) is super hard to watch. Some cool moments of Jordan playing piano and giving some thoughtful (and patient) answers, but I cringed many times.
Which interview is this?
I think he's referring to this one: https://youtu.be/IES9GIB8U3Q
I think the 8string could provide some nice variety so long as it's used sparingly. What I really hope this isn't is an attempt to catch up to the djenty riffing style that 90% of modern prog metal bands these days are doing, god knows we've got enough of that already and Dream Theater isn't TesseracT.
This. I'm not expecting the 8 string to be featured on more than one or two songs, though, so I don't think the album will turn into Djent Theater.
Djent has already ruined a band (Haken) so a Djenty Theater would be a nightmare (to forget). But I don't see that happening.
I am absolutely sure that an 8-string guitar can be used in an interesting way (although no one has achieved this in a heavy metal band or similar). :lol
I'm actually excited to see how JP incorporates the eight string into their music. I'm confident he will use it tastefully.I'm sure he will yes (seeing has he has a strong penchant for melodies. Melodic playing on 8 strings would be pretty interesting IMHO
I haven't heard any of the new Haken material. The only album I have from them is The Mountian, which hasn't aged gracefully to my likes..
I think the 8string could provide some nice variety so long as it's used sparingly. What I really hope this isn't is an attempt to catch up to the djenty riffing style that 90% of modern prog metal bands these days are doing, god knows we've got enough of that already and Dream Theater isn't TesseracT.
This. I'm not expecting the 8 string to be featured on more than one or two songs, though, so I don't think the album will turn into Djent Theater.
Djent has already ruined a band (Haken) so a Djenty Theater would be a nightmare (to forget). But I don't see that happening.
I am absolutely sure that an 8-string guitar can be used in an interesting way (although no one has achieved this in a heavy metal band or similar). :lol
I don't like statements like this one. Just because you personally don't like the direction the last few Haken albums have been taking, doesn't mean that the band is "ruined". I think Haken's last double-decker album had some of the best music they ever released.
If JP does get into the chugga realm with the 8 string, I really hope JM goes to the higher register and does something cool with it.
If JP does get into the chugga realm with the 8 string, I really hope JM goes to the higher register and does something cool with it.
My friend and I call that the "Justin Chancellor Rule" :)
(I know Adam Jones only goes down to drop D usually but it's still basically the same effect)
I bet the tuning is not from hell's depths, like G, F# or drop F idk
I think the 8string could provide some nice variety so long as it's used sparingly. What I really hope this isn't is an attempt to catch up to the djenty riffing style that 90% of modern prog metal bands these days are doing, god knows we've got enough of that already and Dream Theater isn't TesseracT.
This. I'm not expecting the 8 string to be featured on more than one or two songs, though, so I don't think the album will turn into Djent Theater.
Djent has already ruined a band (Haken) so a Djenty Theater would be a nightmare (to forget). But I don't see that happening.
I am absolutely sure that an 8-string guitar can be used in an interesting way (although no one has achieved this in a heavy metal band or similar). :lol
I don't like statements like this one. Just because you personally don't like the direction the last few Haken albums have been taking, doesn't mean that the band is "ruined". I think Haken's last double-decker album had some of the best music they ever released.
Sterling mostly talked about it and hinted that it's going to have fanned frets, which I'm pretty sure will be a first for EBMM. I'm excited to see if that design choice made it to the final build.It's almost mandatory for a eight string to be multi scale with fanned frets. it allows for there to be more tension on the low F# and B strings so they will have more definition and not buzz near as much. The extra length of the string allows for more tuning tension. Kind of like inside a piano, the lower strings are way longer. Same with a bass guitar.
I think that the usage of the 8-string is going to be a complete nothingburger. Like, most of us are going to hear something, think "hm I wonder if that riff was played on the new guitar. I'm gonna ask a musician on DTF." Someone will make a thread, a few people will say "yup definitely an 8-string", and that's gonna be it. Maybe there's gonna be a few complete songs so he doesn't have to switch guitars in the middle of a song on stage, so 99% of that song is gonna sound like standard DT stuff.
I think that the usage of the 8-string is going to be a complete nothingburger. Like, most of us are going to hear something, think "hm I wonder if that riff was played on the new guitar. I'm gonna ask a musician on DTF." Someone will make a thread, a few people will say "yup definitely an 8-string", and that's gonna be it. Maybe there's gonna be a few complete songs so he doesn't have to switch guitars in the middle of a song on stage, so 99% of that song is gonna sound like standard DT stuff.
That's what i'm hoping. Like that one song on DT12 I think it is where there's a super low note but it's a baritone or 7 string detuned. But it's just for an effect.
I think the sole focus is DT15 at the moment. LTE probably won’t gather until next year I’m guessing
I think that the usage of the 8-string is going to be a complete nothingburger. Like, most of us are going to hear something, think "hm I wonder if that riff was played on the new guitar. I'm gonna ask a musician on DTF." Someone will make a thread, a few people will say "yup definitely an 8-string", and that's gonna be it. Maybe there's gonna be a few complete songs so he doesn't have to switch guitars in the middle of a song on stage, so 99% of that song is gonna sound like standard DT stuff.
As a non-native English speaker I never knew the word nothingburger exists, but I love it and I will use it a lot from now on :lolI'm not a native English speaker either, but it is in the dictionary, so I felt free to use it :hat
I could use a nothingburger right now.
Wait, is that a non-existent burger?
Maybe this time around since they played SFAM a lot of times it will inspire their songwriting and we'll get a short acoustic intro song, a one minute piano piece and a song with sex noises :hat
Maybe a follow-up? Metropolis Pt 3: The Virus And The Vaccine.Scene Seven: I. The Dance of Immunity
:lolMaybe a follow-up? Metropolis Pt 3: The Virus And The Vaccine.Scene Seven: I. The Dance of Immunity
Maybe a follow-up? Metropolis Pt 3: The Virus And The Vaccine.Scene Seven: I. The Dance of Immunity
Maybe a follow-up? Metropolis Pt 3: The Virus And The Vaccine.Scene Seven: I. The Dance of Immunity
Scene Eight: The immunoglobulin carries on
:rollin
TAKE OFF YOUR MASK NICHOLAS!!!Maybe a follow-up? Metropolis Pt 3: The Virus And The Vaccine.Scene Seven: I. The Dance of Immunity
Scene Eight: The immunoglobulin carries on
:rollin
Scene Nine - Finally Free..
Hey - it's certainly appropriate!! :tup
Scene Nine - Finally Free..
Hey - it's certainly appropriate!!
It would be odd to have the Overture 2020 released in 2021. It's wouldn't be that long ago.Overture 2019 would be more appropriate, since that's when the first cases showed up in China IIRC. :lol
I wonder how far along they are with the tracking process. They have to be done with guitars at this point(?) They haven’t given us any updates or anything, it’s like TA
I wonder how far along they are with the tracking process. They have to be done with guitars at this point(?) They haven’t given us any updates or anything, it’s like TA
I think we'll get some updates in the coming weeks, but my bet is that they don't want to announce a lot of stuff around the same time LTE3 is being promoted, so that the announcements don't blur with each other or that one steals the spotlight from the other.
Also, LTE3 is being released at the end of March, so I don't expect DT15 to be released before late May/early June at best, specially with no touring untill, apparently, much later in the year.
I wonder how far along they are with the tracking process. They have to be done with guitars at this point(?) They haven’t given us any updates or anything, it’s like TA
I wonder how far along they are with the tracking process. They have to be done with guitars at this point(?) They haven’t given us any updates or anything, it’s like TA
I think we'll get some updates in the coming weeks, but my bet is that they don't want to announce a lot of stuff around the same time LTE3 is being promoted, so that the announcements don't blur with each other or that one steals the spotlight from the other.
Also, LTE3 is being released at the end of March, so I don't expect DT15 to be released before late May/early June at best, specially with no touring untill, apparently, much later in the year.
Right I heard somewhere that they’re planning a fall release
I wonder how far along they are with the tracking process. They have to be done with guitars at this point(?) They haven’t given us any updates or anything, it’s like TA
I wonder how far along they are with the tracking process. They have to be done with guitars at this point(?) They haven’t given us any updates or anything, it’s like TA
The guys have not been chatty at all regarding their production processes these past 10 years, so no surprise here.
True, those snippets were cool. I was thinking more in line with huge documentaries in the lines of their previous Making Of series, such as Systematic Chaos.
True, those snippets were cool. I was thinking more in line with huge documentaries in the lines of their previous Making Of series, such as Systematic Chaos.
Now they have their own studio - it's high time we had another 90 min Studio DVD
John mentioned that there will be a documentary included with DT15. The process is being filmed. (he mentioned it during one of the Q/As leading up to Distant Memories.)True, those snippets were cool. I was thinking more in line with huge documentaries in the lines of their previous Making Of series, such as Systematic Chaos.
Now they have their own studio - it's high time we had another 90 min Studio DVD
Astonishing had nothing. And Distance Over Time had next to nothing.Actually, there were many video updates while the band wrote/recorded the album.
Can anyone blow up the music pages Jordan has open in front of him?
Guess we're looking at a May/June release?
That's the way he's done it for years. He must be used to it by now.Yeah, I know he's "always" done it this way, I just don't understand why! Wish someone could ask him about it one day.
I never really understood why Jordan uses sheet music on stage. I can see the point while they write and record, everyone learns differently, but surely he knows all those 16's and 32's by heart by the time they hit the big stage. Personally I would just be super stressed trying to follow along to a note sheet in a blazingly fast song – if I knew the music anyway!
That's the way he's done it for years. He must be used to it by now.Yeah, I know he's "always" done it this way, I just don't understand why! Wish someone could ask him about it one day.
I never really understood why Jordan uses sheet music on stage. I can see the point while they write and record, everyone learns differently, but surely he knows all those 16's and 32's by heart by the time they hit the big stage. Personally I would just be super stressed trying to follow along to a note sheet in a blazingly fast song – if I knew the music anyway!I teach at a Conservatory, and for academically trained musicians having sheet music in front of you is the most common practice in the world even though you know the music by memory. Call it insurance if you will. And regarding JR specifically, he does not only have the "sheet music" per se in front of him but reminders of his keyboard assignments, such as the octave he programmed a specific sound in. As a keyboard player myself, that can get pretty complex so any sort of visual cue is always well appreciated.
for academically trained musicians having sheet music in front of you is the most common practice in the world even though you know the music by memory. Call it insurance if you will.
Quotefor academically trained musicians having sheet music in front of you is the most common practice in the world even though you know the music by memory. Call it insurance if you will.
Yeah, makes sense. Now, I'm neither academically trained nor a professional musician by any means, but I spent roughly 15 years in a brass band. From personal experience, I either had to stick to the sheet, or not use it much at all. I found that if I looked away for a while I had a hard time figuring out where to pick up once my eyes returned to the sheet. Sure, the regular glance at the conductor was no problem, but if my eyes started wandering to the audience or whatever.. trouble.
Guessing Jordan does this better than what I did!
If you watch him, it doesn't look like he is reading it much. I think the insurance explanation is the best and that there are places to let him know what to change and buttons to push. If I played a piece from memory, but had the sheet music, it was the insurance thing. Frankly the playing is usually faster than what is comfortable reading, and I bet this is magnified by a lot the way he plays!
My drums for DT15 are complete. This is a long post, but for those of you just like me who need positive inspiration more than ever, this is for you:
I've not played on an album this energetically unrelenting start to finish since Annihilator. But the wild thing is the amount of vintage DT melody weaved on to that kind of energy. I've never tapped into more advanced uses of my old and new chops in musical ways because of a monumentally collaborative effort of 5 like-minded, organic/evolving individuals. Is it from the forced lockdown like other music I've heard released? Maybe. Is it from nobody individually or collectively trying to do anything specific musically except just play and be a daring 19-year-old again? Probably. I never say that any new album is better than another. It never seems to be to me after reading, "this is our best blah blah blah." What I'm communicating is exactly what it is about DT15 that sticks out as being significant and important to me. Better? That's pointless given so many different tastes. Who cares.
However, it's really cool that the band and individuals can keep progressing at this career stage. But we're supposed to given how we're defined. Accordingly, there's all the "familiarity" one needs in this new music, but it's definitely not the same old fills/chords/beats. Besides, what could be more boring than a defined "progressive" musician not being creative, dynamic, and growing physically and creatively from album to album? That would be kinda like a poker machine spitting out the same hands game after game, year after year.
Earning good mechanics is a great thing as it pertains to consistency and avoiding playing poorly. But A TRUE machine is a thing that doesn't grow. That's OK unless your thing, your claim, is to be a "progressive" musician. We strive to "complete" who we are even though nobody can fully "complete" everything. No creative growth truly defines and = a "BOT" so to speak. DT15 is no such thing and I'm excited to report back with so much joy. BTW: I took used items from the session for my store.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/141553361_254401912715950_8840092829493266043_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=zBmGKDtSNiQAX868YPW&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&tp=14&oh=5a139472e14e8524d9b89e4ec3c177ff&oe=6031C25F)
From Mike on FB: (https://www.facebook.com/100044384291096/posts/254438016045673/)thanks bruv. I'll add it in right away. Lovely post by Mike too.QuoteMy drums for DT15 are complete. This is a long post, but for those of you just like me who need positive inspiration more than ever, this is for you:
I've not played on an album this energetically unrelenting start to finish since Annihilator. But the wild thing is the amount of vintage DT melody weaved on to that kind of energy. I've never tapped into more advanced uses of my old and new chops in musical ways because of a monumentally collaborative effort of 5 like-minded, organic/evolving individuals. Is it from the forced lockdown like other music I've heard released? Maybe. Is it from nobody individually or collectively trying to do anything specific musically except just play and be a daring 19-year-old again? Probably. I never say that any new album is better than another. It never seems to be to me after reading, "this is our best blah blah blah." What I'm communicating is exactly what it is about DT15 that sticks out as being significant and important to me. Better? That's pointless given so many different tastes. Who cares.
However, it's really cool that the band and individuals can keep progressing at this career stage. But we're supposed to given how we're defined. Accordingly, there's all the "familiarity" one needs in this new music, but it's definitely not the same old fills/chords/beats. Besides, what could be more boring than a defined "progressive" musician not being creative, dynamic, and growing physically and creatively from album to album? That would be kinda like a poker machine spitting out the same hands game after game, year after year.
Earning good mechanics is a great thing as it pertains to consistency and avoiding playing poorly. But A TRUE machine is a thing that doesn't grow. That's OK unless your thing, your claim, is to be a "progressive" musician. We strive to "complete" who we are even though nobody can fully "complete" everything. No creative growth truly defines and = a "BOT" so to speak. DT15 is no such thing and I'm excited to report back with so much joy. BTW: I took used items from the session for my store.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/141553361_254401912715950_8840092829493266043_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=zBmGKDtSNiQAX868YPW&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&tp=14&oh=5a139472e14e8524d9b89e4ec3c177ff&oe=6031C25F)
-Marc.
:metal :corn
If it mixes the classic DT of Distance Over Time with the kinda weirdness of Six Degrees that'd be ace.
I just can't wait for more updates on the album. Hopefully the live Q&A they'll do after the Budokan streaming will have at least some news about it.In which case, would someone please post them here for me to add them in afterwards? I'd much appreciate it. I'm unable to watch the show and the Q/A sadly. (plus I'm not willing to pay this much for it.)
:metal :corn
If it mixes the classic DT of Distance Over Time with the kinda weirdness of Six Degrees that'd be ace.
:metal :metal
I agree, that would be neat.
Based on Mangini's feelings and what he says he gained from making this album, this got me really excited and anticipating to what he means by Unrelenting. If he is doing new stuff, and there was no Musical direction, just 5 guys in room jamming. This could possibly be better than D/T...
Sign me up for the Pre-order boxset... :corn
what Mike may (may!) mean by unrelenting is full force, no holds barred action. (English isn't my first language, although my German (which is) is far worse. Sorry about possibly being inexact.):metal :corn
If it mixes the classic DT of Distance Over Time with the kinda weirdness of Six Degrees that'd be ace.
:metal :metal
I agree, that would be neat.
Based on Mangini's feelings and what he says he gained from making this album, this got me really excited and anticipating to what he means by Unrelenting. If he is doing new stuff, and there was no Musical direction, just 5 guys in room jamming. This could possibly be better than D/T...
Sign me up for the Pre-order boxset... :corn
As long as they still sound like Dream Theater and not every other djenty tech band going i'm fine.
I've not played on an album this energetically unrelenting start to finish since Annihilator. But the wild thing is the amount of vintage DT melody weaved on to that kind of energy.
Of course it will sound like Dream Theater. It will sound like what Dream Theater sounds like in 2021.Dream Theater is, by far, the most instantly recognizable band in progressive metal today and I'm willing to debate this with anyone who disagrees. Even if they go in a full-modern-metal-djent-rampage they are still going to sound like themselves.
Yep - I can totally hear DT15 being like Distance Over Time - but a bit more progressive, experimental, possibly more heavy like Train of Thought
and maybe an epic again. Although the last one I fully enjoyed was Count Of Tuscany. But even then it was no Octavarium.
With the production of the recent Christmas medley - just with a touch more reverb ! :)
Which is more annoying: "MP fanboys" talking about how MP > MM or non-"MP fanboys" saying, without provocation, "I can't wait for MP fanboys to do ____"?
It's been 10 years since they make a decent album...
Going from my response in the D/T thread...
This is how I see the band now...
The band has found a style that they all gel in, and they feel like staying in and exploring it, rather than dipping their toes in it, getting a taste of it's warm and relaxing and even therapeutic quality, and then getting pulled out and moving on to the next one. And I feel they did that with their Self-Titled album. That is the album that truly defined the present day Dream Theater sound and style.
They were forced to leave their current hot springs, as it decided to ease the overload of the crowd, and chose them to leave the spring (MP's departure). So the band, found a new hot spring (Mangini), and dipped their toes in it (ADTOE), basked in it (DT), and now quite enjoy it (D/T). The decision they enjoy the spring is after JP decided to make something to eat, and the band stepped out to make some BBQ (The Astonishing) before going back into the Hot Spring....
Which is where we are with DT15. And it is looking like they are really benefitting from basking in this Hot Spring.
I'm fine with whatever lenght, but the song has to be cohesive.
I mean, take any random verse / chorus / verse / chorus / solo / chorus x2 song, start to add a random intro at the beginning, a different outro at the end, then in the middle stick a long solo section that does not belong with the general vibe of the song, and suddenly you have an "epic". Anyone can stick a random intro or outro or longass solo section in a song to make it longer.
Voices and The Dark Eternal Night are more or less the same lenght, just short of 10 minutes if I remember correctly, but Voices is definitively more complex and with more mood changes than TDEN. I'm more interested in 10 minutes songs like Voices, or even At Wit's End for a more recent example, that song flows quite well and it does not try to be long for the sake of being long.
Hoping to see more JR contribution, i love his piano playing, but i would also like to see less "cheesy" ballad-type songs.
I'm fine with no Myung lyrics. They're not that great in my opinion. Mainly just well-meaning platitudinous rhetoric.
Just stuff like " Look into the water - the reflection frees your mind. Time is frozen. Look outwards. Search within"
Ehhh ?
I'm fine with no Myung lyrics. They're not that great in my opinion. Mainly just well-meaning platitudinous rhetoric.
Just stuff like " Look into the water - the reflection frees your mind. Time is frozen. Look outwards. Search within"
Ehhh ?
Not Signal to Noise. That one I think is about the Wow signal. That's why they put the "Wow" quietly in the song.
Not shit, but pretty mediocre. There are a few decent songs but none of them I would consider to come even close to some of their earlier material (Illumination theory being the only exception). And the reason why that is so is because they abandoned development sections. There is almost zero development of melodic ideas throughout the songs (which is necessary in order to have the music flow and evolve). Their proggy songs became clusterfucks of consecutive ideas, where they introduce cool riffs or sick technical sections one after another with no logical flow. What this achieves is that it makes songs more accessible to general audience, you can basically tune up to any section and you won't miss any context. Before, you had to listen a whole song numerous times and stay focused throughout in order for it to make sense. That's what I loved about DT, but I guess that's not what makes as much profitIt's been 10 years since they make a decent album...
:rollin good joke.
So, to you - Dream Theater, The Astonishing and Distance Over Time are all shit ?
DREAM THEATER : " WATERS EDGE "
1. Waters Edge Overture
2. Waters Edge
i. Water
ii. The Edge
iii. Water's Edge
iv. The Edge of The Water
v. Where the Water Meets The Edge
3. While My Water gently Edges
4. Thanks to Water for Over The Edge !
5. Water Finale!
I can't wait for the MP fanboyz to listen to the new album and talk about how MP would have been better and would have inspired a better album.
Come on, everyone's thinking it, I'm just sayin it... :yarr
Not shit, but pretty mediocre. There are a few decent songs but none of them I would consider to come even close to some of their earlier material (Illumination theory being the only exception). And the reason why that is so is because they abandoned development sections. There is almost zero development of melodic ideas throughout the songs (which is necessary in order to have the music flow and evolve). Their proggy songs became clusterfucks of consecutive ideas, where they introduce cool riffs or sick technical sections one after another with no logical flow. What this achieves is that it makes songs more accessible to general audience, you can basically tune up to any section and you won't miss any context. Before, you had to listen a whole song numerous times and stay focused throughout in order for it to make sense. That's what I loved about DT, but I guess that's not what makes as much profitIt's been 10 years since they make a decent album...
:rollin good joke.
So, to you - Dream Theater, The Astonishing and Distance Over Time are all shit ?
That's bonkers.Not shit, but pretty mediocre. There are a few decent songs but none of them I would consider to come even close to some of their earlier material (Illumination theory being the only exception). And the reason why that is so is because they abandoned development sections. There is almost zero development of melodic ideas throughout the songs (which is necessary in order to have the music flow and evolve). Their proggy songs became clusterfucks of consecutive ideas, where they introduce cool riffs or sick technical sections one after another with no logical flow. What this achieves is that it makes songs more accessible to general audience, you can basically tune up to any section and you won't miss any context. Before, you had to listen a whole song numerous times and stay focused throughout in order for it to make sense. That's what I loved about DT, but I guess that's not what makes as much profitIt's been 10 years since they make a decent album...
:rollin good joke.
So, to you - Dream Theater, The Astonishing and Distance Over Time are all shit ?
I'm not at all shocked by Mangini over-explaining himself. He always gets very defensive. Like - when asked why his hi hats are so high up
he doesn't just go " It's for separation in the mix and so James doesn't get all those cymbals directly in his ears on stage ..."
But he has to go on and on and on about how it's actually not that weird, actually, thank you very much.
It goes some way to backing up my belief that he only sets his kit up weird *because* it's not "usual" and because other people have said it's silly. . .
Like - you think having my crashes at arms length is silly ? Right - i'm going to put the hi hats up there then...
You think having a kit this massive is a bit silly ? I'm going to have 6 bass drums.
I know he's said he doesn't want to retire one day and regret NOT doing all this crazy stuff when he wanted to - but - he should stop letting people get to him so much.
(inb4 someone else replies telling me I should stop telling mangini what he SHOULD do - on a Dream Theater 'discussion forum')
Yeah, I agree. I didn't take that the new DT album would be "as heavy as Annihilator", but the way he worded it, it surely sounded like we'd have a d/t part II coming.
Maybe it's because English is not my first language, but I have trouble following MM's posts... I don't know, often I just don't understand what he means or how he means it (as in, I don't understand if he's joking, if he's angry or confused etc.). Does anyone feel the same? Or is it really just the language barrier?
Maybe it's because English is not my first language, but I have trouble following MM's posts... I don't know, often I just don't understand what he means or how he means it (as in, I don't understand if he's joking, if he's angry or confused etc.). Does anyone feel the same? Or is it really just the language barrier?
It's not just the language barrier. :lol I'm a native speaker, and I have trouble following some of the things he says.
So he goes out of his way to set up his kit to deliberately annoy some people - just so he can post a lengthy explanation of WHY he sets his kit up a certain way ?
Just play dude.
So he goes out of his way to set up his kit to deliberately annoy some people - just so he can post a lengthy explanation of WHY he sets his kit up a certain way ?Artists sometimes do weird things. It happens and it should not a big deal. I cannot imagine any of the other drum candidates to replace Portnoy would've poured so much energy into this band, and that is enough for me. DT is alive and well because of him, and any other little MM gimmick becomes really irrelevant after taking that into account (at least for me). I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate. Are we really out of things to talk about regarding this band? Maybe we should talk again about how DT died after the departure of Kevin Moore. :lol
Just play dude.
So he goes out of his way to set up his kit to deliberately annoy some people - just so he can post a lengthy explanation of WHY he sets his kit up a certain way ?Artists sometimes do weird things. It happens and it should not a big deal. I cannot imagine any of the other drum candidates to replace Portnoy would've poured so much energy into this band, and that is enough for me. DT is alive and well because of him, and any other little MM gimmick becomes really irrelevant after taking that into account. I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate. Are we really out of things to talk about regarding this band? Maybe we should talk again about how DT died after the departure of Kevin Moore. :lol
Just play dude.
Mangini is a smart guy. I remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.
So he goes out of his way to set up his kit to deliberately annoy some people - just so he can post a lengthy explanation of WHY he sets his kit up a certain way ?Artists sometimes do weird things. It happens and it should not a big deal. I cannot imagine any of the other drum candidates to replace Portnoy would've poured so much energy into this band, and that is enough for me. DT is alive and well because of him, and any other little MM gimmick becomes really irrelevant after taking that into account. I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate. Are we really out of things to talk about regarding this band? Maybe we should talk again about how DT died after the departure of Kevin Moore. :lol
Just play dude.
I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate.
I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate.
It wouldn't be - if he didn't keep on getting visibly flustered any time an interviewer bought it up.
If he had his hi hats up there from the beginning and someone asked him once and he calmly said " :) its for separation and so Labrie doesnt get all that high frequency
in his ears constantly when we are jamming " that would be it.
But he has to get all defensive about it.
I remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.
The ever-so-popular Mike Portnoy has done pretty nasty things during his career because of emotional turmoil and that really doesn't make me think any less of him (he's human, after all, and not a God as I liked calling him when I was like 14). For years and years, he was so defensive about so many things regarding DT in his forum that you could really feel the emotion pouring from his words (there's even this song, Never Enough, which is this angry hymn about ungrateful fans lol). If you ask me, he has constantly made the mistake of being so personally open in his social media (and then you have people being asses regarding his political posts in his Facebook/Instagram) and him having to constantly filter posts, erase things and such. It's emotional turmoil (for both him and his closest fans) that could be avoided.I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate.But he has to get all defensive about it.
QuoteI remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.
To Clarify - yet again... I'm not having a go at how he sets up his kit or how he plays it. Thats 100% up to him. Of course it is.
It's just how he seems to do it JUST to annoy people - and then gets all defensive when asked about it.
The ever-so-popular Mike Portnoy has done pretty nasty things during his career because of emotional turmoil and that really doesn't make me think any less of him (he's human, after all, and not a God as I liked calling him when I was like 14). For years and years, he was so defensive about so many things regarding DT in his forum that you could really feel the emotion pouring from his words (there's even this song, Never Enough, which is this angry hymn about ungrateful fans lol). If you ask me, he has constantly made the mistake of being so personally open in his social media (and then you have people being asses regarding his political posts in his Facebook/Instagram) and him having to constantly filter posts, erase things and such. It's emotional turmoil (for both him and his closest fans) that could be avoided.I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate.But he has to get all defensive about it.
Then again, any of that makes me think any less of him. He's been an ass sometimes about things, but meh. We've all been. The difference is that they are people we admire/have admired and we love talking about them. The good he's done outweighs the bad by a ton.
We should all learn about John Petrucci. John Petrucci is civil, has a tranquil mind and knows exactly what to post and what not to post. He never gets into any sort of online conflict because he's smart. Let's all be like John Petrucci.
QuoteI remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.
To Clarify - yet again... I'm not having a go at how he sets up his kit or how he plays it. Thats 100% up to him. Of course it is.
It's just how he seems to do it JUST to annoy people - and then gets all defensive when asked about it.
Has he said, he does it JUST TO annoy people?
I remember him saying he does it for fun, and also to annoy those people whom say the cymbals are too high, and plays along with it. Which they actually are not high, as he explains, and are actually pretty well placed to his reach.
Here's that interview I saw....
https://youtu.be/H7UlBm-iuP8?t=90
It's timestamped to where he says "People are just...crazy." And that shows where he is just astounded with people, in general, and their wacky opinions. And why I enjoy when bands mess with these fans.
He also explains, Traditional Style drumming. Which he does not like to play in that style. Which he uses the ride to help designate the time, while his other limbs play to the music orchestrally. While Traditional drumming, is you play a beat then do a fill.
QuoteI remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.
To Clarify - yet again... I'm not having a go at how he sets up his kit or how he plays it. Thats 100% up to him. Of course it is.
It's just how he seems to do it JUST to annoy people - and then gets all defensive when asked about it.
Has he said, he does it JUST TO annoy people?
I remember him saying he does it for fun, and also to annoy those people whom say the cymbals are too high, and plays along with it. Which they actually are not high, as he explains, and are actually pretty well placed to his reach.
Here's that interview I saw....
https://youtu.be/H7UlBm-iuP8?t=90
It's timestamped to where he says "People are just...crazy." And that shows where he is just astounded with people, in general, and their wacky opinions. And why I enjoy when bands mess with these fans.
He also explains, Traditional Style drumming. Which he does not like to play in that style. Which he uses the ride to help designate the time, while his other limbs play to the music orchestrally. While Traditional drumming, is you play a beat then do a fill.
I value thinking outside the box to do something different to achieve an end. Eddie Van Halen's brown sound. Rick Allen's whatever that's called that he sits behind (drum kit doesn't seem to suffice).
I don't value doing things just for the sake of being different, or, worse, to "tweek" other people.
I don't value doing things just for the sake of being different, or, worse, to "tweek" other people.
QuoteI remember this video where he spoke about how he sometimes plays things in a particular way live to get people upset regarding his drum placement, just because. Lol.
To Clarify - yet again... I'm not having a go at how he sets up his kit or how he plays it. Thats 100% up to him. Of course it is.
It's just how he seems to do it JUST to annoy people - and then gets all defensive when asked about it.
Has he said, he does it JUST TO annoy people?
I remember him saying he does it for fun, and also to annoy those people whom say the cymbals are too high, and plays along with it. Which they actually are not high, as he explains, and are actually pretty well placed to his reach.
Here's that interview I saw....
https://youtu.be/H7UlBm-iuP8?t=90
It's timestamped to where he says "People are just...crazy." And that shows where he is just astounded with people, in general, and their wacky opinions. And why I enjoy when bands mess with these fans.
He also explains, Traditional Style drumming. Which he does not like to play in that style. Which he uses the ride to help designate the time, while his other limbs play to the music orchestrally. While Traditional drumming, is you play a beat then do a fill.
I value thinking outside the box to do something different to achieve an end. Eddie Van Halen's brown sound. Rick Allen's whatever that's called that he sits behind (drum kit doesn't seem to suffice).
I don't value doing things just for the sake of being different, or, worse, to "tweek" other people.
Wait. What is this for? His drumming, or him just doing things for show?
Petrucci reminds me of The Edge - you almost never see Edge angry - and always speaks with calm and clarity.
I don't value doing things just for the sake of being different, or, worse, to "tweek" other people.
I don't either. I don't identify with that and find it to be an odd way to live one's life. But that being said, here's the thing I come back to on that: For some, expressing and asserting one's individuality can be an overwhelming, driving force in their lives. We see that all the time, and expressed in many different ways. And sometimes, that drives some to be driven by the desire to do whatever it takes to "stick it to the man"--or, rather, stick it to any dissenters--in order to assert that individuality, even if that means going to some extremes at times that seem irrational to others. To someone who feels that way, and for whom music is their chosen outlet for expressing their individuality, I guess I can somewhat understand feeling driven to do things that don't make sense just because others feel that that isn't the "right way." And that in turn being manifested by something along the lines of, "Wait, you subjectively believe that the way I choose to do what I do isn't the "right" way to do it? And you presume to tell me that I am wrong for doing what I want to do? OK, well not only am I not going to stop doing it that way, but let me see if I can even take it up a notch. Challenge accepted."
Petrucci reminds me of The Edge - you almost never see Edge angry - and always speaks with calm and clarity.
I have heard that he is always Edgy.
:neverusethis:
Petrucci reminds me of The Edge - you almost never see Edge angry - and always speaks with calm and clarity.
I really, for one, cannot imagine why his choice on how to play his drums is still an ongoing debate.
It wouldn't be - if he didn't keep on getting visibly flustered any time an interviewer bought it up.
If he had his hi hats up there from the beginning and someone asked him once and he calmly said " :) its for separation and so Labrie doesnt get all that high frequency
in his ears constantly when we are jamming " that would be it.
But he has to get all defensive about it.
https://youtu.be/k3-g0BKtPeE
Leaving all the MM chat aside, do you people expect JP's 8 string guitar to be used on this album?
Could we get a new instrumental track?
What are your expectations?
I'm just hoping we get any kind of DT15 updates on saturday's Q&A after the Budokan 2017 stream.so do I. In case there are (and given anyone here will watch the stream), please post them here for me to add them in.
8 string guitar IS going to be used on the new album.It's quite possible, but unless you have some inside information, nothing is guaranteed. If the band basically continues writing the way they did when MP was in the band, they will come up with all sorts of parts of songs, and then work out ways to incorporate those different parts together into songs. I recall seeing video stills from the 8v writing sessions where JP was experimenting with an electric sitar that he had been gifted, and yet nothing that was written using it ended up on 8v. So the same could be true with the new one. JP could come up with different ideas on the 8-string he has, but that's no guarantee those ideas will end up on the album. Time will tell.
There is no if regarding this.
I'm just hoping we get any kind of DT15 updates on saturday's Q&A after the Budokan 2017 stream.
8 string guitar IS going to be used on the new album.It's quite possible, but unless you have some inside information, nothing is guaranteed. If the band basically continues writing the way they did when MP was in the band, they will come up with all sorts of parts of songs, and then work out ways to incorporate those different parts together into songs. I recall seeing video stills from the 8v writing sessions where JP was experimenting with an electric sitar that he had been gifted, and yet nothing that was written using it ended up on 8v. So the same could be true with the new one. JP could come up with different ideas on the 8-string he has, but that's no guarantee those ideas will end up on the album. Time will tell.
There is no if regarding this.
I'm just hoping we get any kind of DT15 updates on saturday's Q&A after the Budokan 2017 stream.so do I. In case there are (and given anyone here will watch the stream), please post them here for me to add them in.
Who knows how finalized all the compositions are, but.... it's there already existing in DT land! :metal
Oh and I hope that DT never do the 75 minute ONE track album.Actually, I think it could definitely be interesting for a band like DT to tackle a one-piece album. Something like taking the Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence concept and taking it to the next level. It makes me think of "The Whirlwind" in a way.
:rollin again, thanks for the laughs. Much appreciated.I'm just hoping we get any kind of DT15 updates on saturday's Q&A after the Budokan 2017 stream.so do I. In case there are (and given anyone here will watch the stream), please post them here for me to add them in.
I think I might ask if the album is going to be thrashy! ;D
Oh and I hope that DT never do the 75 minute ONE track album.
Let's say for arguments sake that the album is fully tracked by the middle of February.
Albums generally take around three months to come out after that what with mixing, mastering, duplication and promotion.
That takes us up to the middle of May or thereabouts. I predict this album will be released on Friday June 11.
Idk, sounds rushed, I thought of september :)
I wonder what kind of stock images Hugh Syme is digging up for a DT15 album cover? 😁
To me, DT's best artwork has been Train of Thought -by far-. I love the photography-inspired art. It felt so elegant and so fitting not only to that album but to the DT experience as a whole. I hope they had used that resource more often.
To me, DT's best artwork has been Train of Thought -by far-. I love the photography-inspired art. It felt so elegant and so fitting not only to that album but to the DT experience as a whole. I hope they had used that resource more often.
I can't imagine any of the band members having such a strong and negative opinion on a DT artwork to the point that they put their foot down and insists with all the others, MP style (the self described "winner of arguments by wearing down the others") that they absolutely and totally need to drop a big name like Hugh Syme.
I certainly hope that Petrucci is at least AWARE of the problems everyone has had with Hugh and isn't completely in the dark about how sloppy and lazy his recent efforts have been.
I like to think that Petrucci messaged HS something like " The D/T artwork is great - but come on man it's just two stock images composited.. We're paying you top dollar. "
I very much doubt this - but maybe HS does it for a massively reduced fee and gets some % of the back end ? So he doesn't feel like turning in his best work ?
I like some of Hugh's covers (like the whole artwork of Clockwork Angels and Snakes & Arrows), but yeah, lately he has gotten pretty lazy (the watermarks in DT12) and it almost pisses me off that a big band like DT can't hire a younger, more hungry artist that would probably work his ass off for them.
Most groups don't really give a shit about album artwork anymore and who can blame them? In the age of digital music album artwork is a dying art form. I personally know two graphic artists who used to do dozens of album covers every year but they've both moved on to regular 9 to 5 day jobs because most groups just don't want to shell out good money for artwork that no one really gives a shit about.
I mean, yeah, sure, there are some collectors who are still interested. I know I still like to see good art on an album but in the last ten years especially album artwork has become an afterthought for most groups.
If you think about it most eyes that are going to see it will be seeing it on a smartphone screen or the screen in their car. What's the point of spending thousands of dollars to have an artist create an amazing album cover that's going to be presented to the end-user in a postage-stamp sized format?
At this point, the album name, band name and logo and some stock artwork is all I expect. And I'm rarely disappointed.
I certainly hope that Petrucci is at least AWARE of the problems everyone has had with Hugh and isn't completely in the dark about how sloppy and lazy his recent efforts have been.
I like to think that Petrucci messaged HS something like " The D/T artwork is great - but come on man it's just two stock images composited.. We're paying you top dollar. "
I very much doubt this - but maybe HS does it for a massively reduced fee and gets some % of the back end ? So he doesn't feel like turning in his best work ?
I would also think the resurgence in the popularity of vinyl would be pushing back against the "cover art doesn't matter" position.Good point! I'm seeing a lot more vinyl for sale, even at Walmart. Last time I was there, I saw Rush 2112 probably from a hundred feet away. It was $20..00 and included a holographic image of the logo inside. :coolio
Some tidbits from the Mike Mangini Interview with The Mistress Carrie Podcast
On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."
He says released in September, guitar and bass might be done, keyboards will be done if not done already. Lyrics and vocals yet to be done and it's being mixed along the way as they can do that from DTHQ.
On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."
Who's even in charge of the thing, anyway? I mean, when it comes to discussing the new artwork, does their manager ask them "guys, it's time to think about the cover art, I'm gonna give a call to Hugh Syme like last time, is that ok"?As i recall from an interview, JP said that the music actually defines pretty much the artwork, for example in DoT the music was dark and heavy and the album cover art reflected that. But it didn't stop there he mentioned that the theme of the music followed the entire production, from stage presentation to all aspects of the live show. So i'm guessing he actually works along with Syme while he sends him bits and pieces from the music they are writing at that time.
Also by that logic - all bands should phone in ( no pun intended ) every album since kids only listen to them on their smartphone speakers whilst walking around in a group and talking
so whats the point ?
Some tidbits from the Mike Mangini Interview with The Mistress Carrie Podcast
On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."
He says released in September, guitar and bass might be done, keyboards will be done if not done already. Lyrics and vocals yet to be done and it's being mixed along the way as they can do that from DTHQ.
Some tidbits from the Mike Mangini Interview with The Mistress Carrie Podcast
On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."
He says released in September, guitar and bass might be done, keyboards will be done if not done already. Lyrics and vocals yet to be done and it's being mixed along the way as they can do that from DTHQ.
Some tidbits from the Mike Mangini Interview with The Mistress Carrie Podcast
On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."
He says released in September, guitar and bass might be done, keyboards will be done if not done already. Lyrics and vocals yet to be done and it's being mixed along the way as they can do that from DTHQ.
No but imagine if he did it with a 4 piece Ringo kit.
Bass Snare Hi Hat Ride Rack Tom Floor Tom.
I certainly hope that Petrucci is at least AWARE of the problems everyone has had with Hugh and isn't completely in the dark about how sloppy and lazy his recent efforts have been.
I like to think that Petrucci messaged HS something like " The D/T artwork is great - but come on man it's just two stock images composited.. We're paying you top dollar. "
I very much doubt this - but maybe HS does it for a massively reduced fee and gets some % of the back end ? So he doesn't feel like turning in his best work ?
Ok cause Petrucci definitely said " just slap two stock images together " .
You're not Wild Ranger, are you?
Ok cause Petrucci definitely said " just slap two stock images together " .
I'm sure he didn't, but that's rather obviously not the only possibility. He could have said, for example, "I want a robotic hand holding a skull (sort of Hamlet style) against a background that is basically an overcast sky. Put the Majesty logo on the robots arm and '137' on the skull."
Do they even go that far?
The "red" made me realize we never really had a "red" DT album. It's kinda hard to pinpoint a specific color to a cover art.... d/t and Six Degrees are definitively "white" albums, and Awake and Trrain of Thought are black, but the others? what color is I&W? Octavarium is.... grey/green? Systematic chaos is... yellow/orange-ish?
The "red" made me realize we never really had a "red" DT album. It's kinda hard to pinpoint a specific color to a cover art.... d/t and Six Degrees are definitively "white" albums, and Awake and Trrain of Thought are black, but the others? what color is I&W? Octavarium is.... grey/green? Systematic chaos is... yellow/orange-ish?
I kinda like that "simple" version actually. Though I would have gone a step further and removed the Dream Theater logo entirely, considering "d/t" is already on the cover. They've never done that though and I kinda doubt they ever will.If you're referring to the Majesty symbol, there are a few live releases where it is missing: L@tM, OiaL and LSFNY (original cover). If you're referring the the band's name, it is not on the self-titled album.
If you're referring the the band's name, it is not on the self-titled album.
I’d like to have a ‘red’ album. Maybe have a blood red sky...
Operation Mindcrime?I’d like to have a ‘red’ album. Maybe have a blood red sky...
With a crowd gathered in black and white ?
I'd like to see DT have a green-theme of some sort. Kind of a darker green background with the DT font black in the lettering with nuclear green glowing around it. Or something like that. 🤔
That shade of red reminds me of the same color on Rush's Hold Your Fire.
If you're referring the the band's name, it is not on the self-titled album.Speaking of which, it's gotta be their weakest cover. JP said that the simplicity of it conveyed a mystery of some sort but I think it's way over simplified and dull. On the other hand DoT has a nice cover and I think it suited the music of the record pretty well.
The "red" made me realize we never really had a "red" DT album. It's kinda hard to pinpoint a specific color to a cover art.... d/t and Six Degrees are definitively "white" albums, and Awake and Trrain of Thought are black, but the others? what color is I&W? Octavarium is.... grey/green? Systematic chaos is... yellow/orange-ish?
I actually think Black Clouds is amongst their worst cover art.I'm the opposite - I think when it's done in a well designed and executed way, the outcome can be really good. The Awake cover, which is another in that same style, is my favorite cover art of DT's. IaW and BCaSL are both in that same style too, but neither is as well executed. I can forgive IaW much more so because of Photoshop being in its infancy back then, and I don't think Larry Freemantle had as much experience (or budget) to pull off the cover properly.
I'm just not a fan of copy and paste clip art collage style.
When MP asked me to do the Black Clouds and Silver Anniversary image...
In reading these posts about the cover for d/t, I just remembered the fact that the cover image you're all discussing is *not* the first thing that HS had proposed to JP. The first one was far more simple - it's the red cover of the vinyl as seen in this image:
(https://preview.redd.it/cp6kd48pfe921.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=17756962928e82b80dbceefb8164720d47f84e4d)
Don't remember where I read it, but JP told HS that he wanted something more than that (or something to that effect), and that's when HS came up with the cover with the robot hand and skull.
Besides the obvious flaws, the one other thing that bugs me about some of HS's artwork - in particular the covers - is the lack of creativity when incorporating the Majesty symbol in the artwork. For me, the way it was done for BCaSL, ADToE, L@LP and d/t was pretty poor.
When MP asked me to do the Black Clouds and Silver Anniversary image, I wanted to make sure I didn't fall into the same trap. So that's why I made the Majesty symbol look like a marble inlay in the floor (at the proper angle and perspective!), and I really focused on trying to get the lighting, shading and shadows of the various objects to be as accurate as I could.
Of course, how much of it they play would depend on whether they are still doing an evening-with show, or whether they are touring with another band (such as a certain co-headlining tour I heard rumors of a little while back).
What was the rumor/tease of the co-headliner?:corn
What was the rumor/tease of the co-headliner?:corn
I actually think Black Clouds is amongst their worst cover art.I'm the opposite - I think when it's done in a well designed and executed way, the outcome can be really good. The Awake cover, which is another in that same style, is my favorite cover art of DT's. IaW and BCaSL are both in that same style too, but neither is as well executed. I can forgive IaW much more so because of Photoshop being in its infancy back then, and I don't think Larry Freemantle had as much experience (or budget) to pull off the cover properly.
I'm just not a fan of copy and paste clip art collage style.
BCaSL could have been good if it would have been executed properly. So much of it does look slapped together quickly. Just look at the wonky angle and perspective of the Majesty symbol - never mind that it looks like it's just a stain on the floor. When MP asked me to do the Black Clouds and Silver Anniversary image, I wanted to make sure I didn't fall into the same trap. So that's why I made the Majesty symbol look like a marble inlay in the floor (at the proper angle and perspective!), and I really focused on trying to get the lighting, shading and shadows of the various objects to be as accurate as I could.
You did that? Neat! I am cleaning out my garage and literally 10 minutes ago pulled out that poster. Ah, to be single again when I could have film and music posters hanging on my walls.I did - glad you enjoyed it. And yeah, I can relate to batchelor decor as opposed to married decor! ;D
Could you post a picture of that please?I don't have the poster image handy, but seeing as the same image was used (with a few tweaks) for the last/latest edition of Lifting Shadows, hopefully this will work for you:
I'd not seen that before. That's bad ass, bud. Nice work.Really? Surprised you hadn't! But thanks for the compliment! :)
Well now that the elephant is out of the room, that's a pretty good picture. 😁You did that? Neat! I am cleaning out my garage and literally 10 minutes ago pulled out that poster. Ah, to be single again when I could have film and music posters hanging on my walls.I did - glad you enjoyed it. And yeah, I can relate to batchelor decor as opposed to married decor! ;D
Could you post a picture of that please?I don't have the poster image handy, but seeing as the same image was used (with a few tweaks) for the last/latest edition of Lifting Shadows, hopefully this will work for you:
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_32da9972-7d55-406e-8ea5-e70eed4f048b?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=pjpeg)
I'd not seen that before. That's bad ass, bud. Nice work.Really? Surprised you hadn't! But thanks for the compliment! :)
Well now that the elephant is out of the room, that's a pretty good picture. 😁Thank you. :) That elephant was always one of the things that bothered me about the original image - the shading seemed all wrong on it, and the image itself (besides the shading) didn't look very realistic either, like it was CGI.
Nice work Scotty! What is that little red object next to the unicyclist?Thanks! Are you talking about the object on the floor actually next to the unicyclist's shadow? That's the majesty branding iron from WDaDU.
Also, how did you make the shadow of the unicyclist?First, I had to cut the unicyclist out of the ADToE cover, which resulted in me having a mask. I mirrored that mask and created a new fill layer, applying that mask to it, filling it in with a flat black color, setting that layer to multiply and reduced the opacity (don't remember by how much). Then I skewed it to the correct angle. After that, I blurred the shadow a little, undid the blur but set the history brush to *after* the blur, and applied this history brush to most of the shadow. I repeated the same step multiple times, progressively adding a heavier blur each time, but only applying the history brush to progressively less of the shadow (the further away it was from the unicyclist). Finally, I used a very large, heavily feathered brush set at a reduced opacity to further reduce the darkness of the shadow (again, the further away it was from the unicyclist). Does that all make sense? Hope so! And thus concludes today's Photoshop lesson! :biggrin:
What was the rumor/tease of the co-headliner?:corn
MM originally said here: https://youtu.be/9sDyhyC8A5k?t=574 that they were planning a special tour with someone else for the fall (2020, before everything went down). And now you get Bosk's post, who we all know might have heard something from good sources ;)
I don't think any other member has made comments about this, but if it was such an special tour they were planning, I think they'd try to keep it in the cards once/if touring is possible again.
What was the rumor/tease of the co-headliner?:corn
MM originally said here: https://youtu.be/9sDyhyC8A5k?t=574 that they were planning a special tour with someone else for the fall (2020, before everything went down). And now you get Bosk's post, who we all know might have heard something from good sources ;)
I don't think any other member has made comments about this, but if it was such an special tour they were planning, I think they'd try to keep it in the cards once/if touring is possible again.
Yes, I heard it from a VERY reliable source. And as far as I know, it's still tentatively in the works for whenever restrictions lift. But who knows? As the months pass, priorities change, so I guess we'll see when the time comes.
Nope. :biggrin:
It's nearly March now.
September is not THAT far away. Not if you're on DTF every day looking for updates. If you occupy yourself in the summer - September will be here in no time at all.
Jordan posted yesterday on Patreon that he's getting ready for keyboard tracking with a picture of his new Moog One synth in the studio.
Jordan posted yesterday on Patreon that he's getting ready for keyboard tracking with a picture of his new Moog One synth in the studio.
It seems they're really taking their time (pun not intended) to record the album this time, because there's no pressure to get it out quickly.
I wanted them to finish and release it sooner, but now I hope this makes all the fans that were asking for them to sit with the material for a while before recording it immediately happy.
Jordan posted yesterday on Patreon that he's getting ready for keyboard tracking with a picture of his new Moog One synth in the studio.edited the timeline, thanks very much.
I very much approve of them taking their time this time around (especially after D/T having been made so quickly (far too quickly IMHO, it suffered massively because of it)Jordan posted yesterday on Patreon that he's getting ready for keyboard tracking with a picture of his new Moog One synth in the studio.
It seems they're really taking their time (pun not intended) to record the album this time, because there's no pressure to get it out quickly.
I wanted them to finish and release it sooner, but now I hope this makes all the fans that were asking for them to sit with the material for a while before recording it immediately happy.
I do think it's a good sign. My initial concern was that they'd finish the album on their regular pace (which is about 5 months of recording, & would finish in March) & then just wait until September to release it, but it seems they're actually using that time to work on it more, & I think that's cool of them. :D
Of course, it's not guaranteed that they won't still finish in March or April, but I'd be down for them spending as much time as they can working on it before the deadline. I wouldn't want them to become a band that only releases an album once every 5-6 years, but a few extra months is ok in my book. :tup
I very much approve of them taking their time this time around (especially after D/T having been made so quickly (far too quickly IMHO, it suffered massively because of it)Jordan posted yesterday on Patreon that he's getting ready for keyboard tracking with a picture of his new Moog One synth in the studio.
It seems they're really taking their time (pun not intended) to record the album this time, because there's no pressure to get it out quickly.
I wanted them to finish and release it sooner, but now I hope this makes all the fans that were asking for them to sit with the material for a while before recording it immediately happy.
I do think it's a good sign. My initial concern was that they'd finish the album on their regular pace (which is about 5 months of recording, & would finish in March) & then just wait until September to release it, but it seems they're actually using that time to work on it more, & I think that's cool of them. :D
Of course, it's not guaranteed that they won't still finish in March or April, but I'd be down for them spending as much time as they can working on it before the deadline. I wouldn't want them to become a band that only releases an album once every 5-6 years, but a few extra months is ok in my book. :tup
work out the music far more (IMHO, they are capable of doing that, and they purposefully did not do it. It's (largely) extremely simplistic, for their current lineup that is. Too simplistic (and phoned in).Hopefully DT15 will be more worked out.)I very much approve of them taking their time this time around (especially after D/T having been made so quickly (far too quickly IMHO, it suffered massively because of it)Jordan posted yesterday on Patreon that he's getting ready for keyboard tracking with a picture of his new Moog One synth in the studio.
It seems they're really taking their time (pun not intended) to record the album this time, because there's no pressure to get it out quickly.
I wanted them to finish and release it sooner, but now I hope this makes all the fans that were asking for them to sit with the material for a while before recording it immediately happy.
I do think it's a good sign. My initial concern was that they'd finish the album on their regular pace (which is about 5 months of recording, & would finish in March) & then just wait until September to release it, but it seems they're actually using that time to work on it more, & I think that's cool of them. :D
Of course, it's not guaranteed that they won't still finish in March or April, but I'd be down for them spending as much time as they can working on it before the deadline. I wouldn't want them to become a band that only releases an album once every 5-6 years, but a few extra months is ok in my book. :tup
Statements like this one make no sense to me. How would D/T be better the longer they take to write it? What if it took 8 months to write and record but you get the exact same product? Would you be satisfied knowing they took their time? From a producers point of view, what would you have done differently to ensure that D/T would not suffer and how does D/T suffer in the first place?
work out the music far more (IMHO, they are capable of doing that, and they purposefully did not do it. It's (largely) extremely simplistic, for their current lineup that is. Too simplistic (and phoned in).Hopefully DT15 will be more worked out.)I very much approve of them taking their time this time around (especially after D/T having been made so quickly (far too quickly IMHO, it suffered massively because of it)Jordan posted yesterday on Patreon that he's getting ready for keyboard tracking with a picture of his new Moog One synth in the studio.
It seems they're really taking their time (pun not intended) to record the album this time, because there's no pressure to get it out quickly.
I wanted them to finish and release it sooner, but now I hope this makes all the fans that were asking for them to sit with the material for a while before recording it immediately happy.
I do think it's a good sign. My initial concern was that they'd finish the album on their regular pace (which is about 5 months of recording, & would finish in March) & then just wait until September to release it, but it seems they're actually using that time to work on it more, & I think that's cool of them. :D
Of course, it's not guaranteed that they won't still finish in March or April, but I'd be down for them spending as much time as they can working on it before the deadline. I wouldn't want them to become a band that only releases an album once every 5-6 years, but a few extra months is ok in my book. :tup
Statements like this one make no sense to me. How would D/T be better the longer they take to write it? What if it took 8 months to write and record but you get the exact same product? Would you be satisfied knowing they took their time? From a producers point of view, what would you have done differently to ensure that D/T would not suffer and how does D/T suffer in the first place?
I am no musician or writer, but I have heard from those who are, and I think it is a fair analogy, that writing can be like cooking. You can over-cook something just as easily as you can under-cook something, Spending more time on a dish, or a song, isn't by default going to make it better.it is possible that, had D/T been fully "cooked out" as it were, I'd have enjoyed it far more, yes. (at the same time, I don't fault the people who do love it. Let them have it :D ) Hence why I'm a bit more optimistic about DT15, given that they apparently are taking their time with it. I am back once their is an update to add to the timeline. (and one more thing, ever since MM joined, we have been spoiled by a run of very very highly consistent albums (great!), so D/T was quite a step down, to me anyway.)
If you think they did not spend a proper amount of DoT, or that more time would have made it more enjoyable for your, I won't challenge that criticism.
It's nearly March now.
September is not THAT far away. Not if you're on DTF every day looking for updates. If you occupy yourself in the summer - September will be here in no time at all.
:huh: I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
I don't get how an album with gems like At Wit's End, Barstool Warrior, and S2n can be considered an undercooked album.
I don't get how an album with gems like At Wit's End, Barstool Warrior, and S2n can be considered an undercooked album.
I think those are amazing tracks - some of their best in the Mangini era - but I don't think D/T is their best either. Undercooked is definitely not the right term, as no amount of time is going to equate to how good or bad a track is. There was definitely a way to word it better than the other user, hahah. For me personally, their first three tracks are a bore (They've had much better singles than Untethered Angel, Paralyzed is a lesser BMU, BMD, and Fall into the Light does nothing for me). The album really picks up for me with Barstool Warrior through At Wit's End. Those tracks are fresh, they're fun and they really deliver. The rest of the album after...is just okay. Out of Reach is an okay ballad. I'll never switch over to it, but if it's end I let it play out. Pale Blue Dot has a killer opening riff, but I don't think the rest of the track lives up to your typical epic closer. Viper King is a fun bonus track, but I consider it exactly that; a bonus.
So with that all that, D/T is an album for me that is some insanely solid tracks surrounded by some filler. And my most controversial opinion...is that I think the production is kinda trash. The guitars and drums are all the way up, and the keys and vocals are buried in the mix (not to mention I don't care for some of the effects).
But whatever. It's okay to have different opinions about an album. DT has been doing it's thing for a while and I'd argue none of it is surprising at this point. Maybe a few new elements here and there, but they pretty consistently deliver what they're known for. And I'll always be there first day to enjoy a good portion of it.
I finally got around to listening to that Mistress Carrie podcast to confirm that MM actually said it'd be out in September. If anyone else wants to do the same, it's in the last 5 minutes of a 2 hour podcast, so it might save you some time to know that. :lolI just added the podcast interview link into the timeline. Thanks very much. Sorry it took so long.
I think the thing that struck me about it was his certainty of it. He didn't say "around September"; he directly said "the plan is to release it in September (paraphrasing)", & I think the album's too early in development to give that kind of precise estimation. My theory is that September is the deadline that the label gave to the band. If that's the case, the label's probably planned their release schedule around that (for reasons others have discussed above), so I imagine that's when they'll release it, even if it's finished earlier than expected.
This is just speculation, & idk if it adds anything to the discussion, but I wanted to share my thoughts.
I don't get how an album with gems like At Wit's End, Barstool Warrior, and S2n can be considered an undercooked album.
I think those are amazing tracks - some of their best in the Mangini era - but I don't think D/T is their best either. Undercooked is definitely not the right term, as no amount of time is going to equate to how good or bad a track is.
I don't get how an album with gems like At Wit's End, Barstool Warrior, and S2n can be considered an undercooked album.
I think those are amazing tracks - some of their best in the Mangini era - but I don't think D/T is their best either. Undercooked is definitely not the right term, as no amount of time is going to equate to how good or bad a track is.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I think the original criticism here is a valid one. "Undercooked" might be an odd way of putting it, but there is definitely a correlation between the amount of time spent working on something and its relative quality. It is literally impossible to produce a high quality full album recording (45 minutes or more) in the studio in 3 days. But if you take your time with it, say, 30 days instead of 3, and you spend that time fully developing all of the ideas that make the final cut I would venture to say that you will be producing a superior product to that of a project rushed through recording and post-production in a shorter amount of time.
Now obviously I wasn't in the studio with Dream Theater when they recorded Distance over Time but to me quite a bit of the material feels underdeveloped, particularly Pale Blue Dot, which I think was a huge missed opportunity. I'm also not fond of some of the production choices that were made, but that's a pretty minor gripe. But to say that "no amount of time is going to equate to how good or bad a track is" well, with all due respect, you're wrong. Time in the studio matters. Time spent developing a composition matters. Sure, at some point you're just going to be needlessly tinkering, but I know every song I've ever written has benefitted from more time spent in the refinement process and the quality of my recorded output is always better when I spend more time paying attention to details.
I don't get how an album with gems like At Wit's End, Barstool Warrior, and S2n can be considered an undercooked album.
I think those are amazing tracks - some of their best in the Mangini era - but I don't think D/T is their best either. Undercooked is definitely not the right term, as no amount of time is going to equate to how good or bad a track is.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I think the original criticism here is a valid one. "Undercooked" might be an odd way of putting it, but there is definitely a correlation between the amount of time spent working on something and its relative quality. It is literally impossible to produce a high quality full album recording (45 minutes or more) in the studio in 3 days. But if you take your time with it, say, 30 days instead of 3, and you spend that time fully developing all of the ideas that make the final cut I would venture to say that you will be producing a superior product to that of a project rushed through recording and post-production in a shorter amount of time.
Now obviously I wasn't in the studio with Dream Theater when they recorded Distance over Time but to me quite a bit of the material feels underdeveloped, particularly Pale Blue Dot, which I think was a huge missed opportunity. I'm also not fond of some of the production choices that were made, but that's a pretty minor gripe. But to say that "no amount of time is going to equate to how good or bad a track is" well, with all due respect, you're wrong. Time in the studio matters. Time spent developing a composition matters. Sure, at some point you're just going to be needlessly tinkering, but I know every song I've ever written has benefitted from more time spent in the refinement process and the quality of my recorded output is always better when I spend more time paying attention to details.
... unless it's Chinese Democracy :rollin
Joking aside, I agree with most of your post, it's important to let music (or art in general) breathe and get developed more as time passes. Usually, it helps to let the ideas rest for some time and get back to them with a fresh mind to be more objective about it, as not everything is as good (or as bad) as it originally sounds.
Speaking about D/T, though, they wanted to continue with the shorter/concise songrwriting approach, so they clearly didn't want to make stuff longer or more developed than it originally was. At least that's the product THEY wanted to make and were/are happy with it being that way, vs having someone else dictate what you should/shouldn't do (like FII, for example).
Jordan is now tracking his keys according to Patreon.added in, thanks very much
Jordan is now tracking his keys according to Patreon.
Jordan is now tracking his keys according to Patreon.
That's the most relevant post in this topic in the last few pages.
Thanks for sharing this.
Speaking of relevant posts, as more of a side note: Since Mike mentioned his solo album in the beginning of last year as well (in conjunction with DT15), some may be interested to know that said solo album is apparently well under way as well. It apparently will even include him singing (oddly enough), see here: https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/260248032131338
"-Solo Album: Music was finished in 2020. Vox addressed ASAP."
and btw, I've again changed the thread title to reflect the current state of affairs.
Jordan is now tracking his keys according to Patreon.
That's the most relevant post in this topic in the last few pages.
Thanks for sharing this.
Speaking of relevant posts, as more of a side note: Since Mike mentioned his solo album in the beginning of last year as well (in conjunction with DT15), some may be interested to know that said solo album is apparently well under way as well. It apparently will even include him singing (oddly enough), see here: https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/260248032131338
"-Solo Album: Music was finished in 2020. Vox addressed ASAP."
and btw, I've again changed the thread title to reflect the current state of affairs.
Could be a sample of him teaching astrophysics or reading an essay about Fibonacci sequence, not necessarily singing... :biggrin:
That was my thought as well - the post that's been cited gives no guarantees that MM's doing the vocals.:lol I take it as the album having vocals, but not necessarily him recording them. He's said multiple times before that he's not a very good singer, even though apparently Nuno had him doing backup vocals on a few Extreme shows.Speaking of relevant posts, as more of a side note: Since Mike mentioned his solo album in the beginning of last year as well (in conjunction with DT15), some may be interested to know that said solo album is apparently well under way as well. It apparently will even include him singing (oddly enough), see here: https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/260248032131338Could be a sample of him teaching astrophysics or reading an essay about Fibonacci sequence, not necessarily singing... :biggrin:
"-Solo Album: Music was finished in 2020. Vox addressed ASAP."
and btw, I've again changed the thread title to reflect the current state of affairs.
then I made the mistake of paraphrasing it the way I did. Very sorry. (and honestly, it would have surprised me hearing him sing :D ) Nonetheless, I'm excited for Mike's solo album as much as for DT15.That was my thought as well - the post that's been cited gives no guarantees that MM's doing the vocals.:lol I take it as the album having vocals, but not necessarily him recording them. He's said multiple times before that he's not a very good singer, even though apparently Nuno had him doing backup vocals on a few Extreme shows.Speaking of relevant posts, as more of a side note: Since Mike mentioned his solo album in the beginning of last year as well (in conjunction with DT15), some may be interested to know that said solo album is apparently well under way as well. It apparently will even include him singing (oddly enough), see here: https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/260248032131338Could be a sample of him teaching astrophysics or reading an essay about Fibonacci sequence, not necessarily singing... :biggrin:
"-Solo Album: Music was finished in 2020. Vox addressed ASAP."
and btw, I've again changed the thread title to reflect the current state of affairs.
MM seems to want to make this album a full instatement of him as musician, including composing and playing all the instruments (he already said somewhere he would be recording all of them by himself). My bet is that, if there's any vocals on his album, he will sing it.
I am not excited for MM solo album.I would encourage you to listen and perhaps buy it if you like it. I'm sure it will have some good stuff, and I guarantee the drumming is good. ;)
That is not to say that i don't like,or appreciate him as a musician.
I just haven't heard anything of him,prior to DT,so i don't know his musical influences,
as well his melodic style (because he is a drummer obviously)
If i listen to it,and like it,then i may anticipate his next (if he ever releases another one)
MM seems to want to make this album a full instatement of him as musician, including composing and playing all the instruments (he already said somewhere he would be recording all of them by himself). My bet is that, if there's any vocals on his album, he will sing it.
I get why he wants to do it that way, but it's a terrible idea that he will most likely regret in the long run.
Absolutely this! :tupMM seems to want to make this album a full instatement of him as musician, including composing and playing all the instruments (he already said somewhere he would be recording all of them by himself). My bet is that, if there's any vocals on his album, he will sing it.
I get why he wants to do it that way, but it's a terrible idea that he will most likely regret in the long run.
I think I see it a bit differently than you. Writing a solo album where you actually do everything (or close to it) is a pretty remarkable achievement. Even if people hate it, he still went for it and did something not a lot of people have the gonads to do. He may regret it more if he never goes for it. More power to him, I say.
Silly statement with no explanation as to why you think that way.MM seems to want to make this album a full instatement of him as musician, including composing and playing all the instruments (he already said somewhere he would be recording all of them by himself). My bet is that, if there's any vocals on his album, he will sing it.
I get why he wants to do it that way, but it's a terrible idea that he will most likely regret in the long run.
I would really like to hear an FII sound on this new record. It's groovy, bluesy and the atmosphere is just cool. Not sure why its not a more popular record. :)
I agree that FII is the best sounding DT album.I would really like to hear an FII sound on this new record. It's groovy, bluesy and the atmosphere is just cool. Not sure why its not a more popular record. :)
I love Falling Into Infinity. In my opinion, it also the best sounding DT album of all. Transparent but forceful. Also, MP's drums have never sounded better for me (maybe only on Neal Morse's Sola Gratia and Sons Of Apollo's debut).
Some parts of Octavarium ( mainly These Walls ) sound like they were recorded outside
I'd love to try that as a production experiment. Set up a band in the middle of a field - and record them playing individually.
No reflections - no baffling or any of that stuff. Just to see how it sounds when you put it all together.
I agree that FII is [a] DT album.
It'll be hard due to the mics picking up the wind, and other sounds. I've been thinking about this too. It'd have to be somewhere nice and quiet, like in the mountains.
It'll be hard due to the mics picking up the wind, and other sounds. I've been thinking about this too. It'd have to be somewhere nice and quiet, like in the mountains.
I can see the headline now: "Local band killed in avalanche".
Was there an 8 string guitar on Distance over time?No.
a studio shot from Jordan: https://www.instagram.com/p/CLfwMEKAy4L/Nice! I love that sound. :coolio
Me too! Kinda little bit of a Tom Sawyer synth pattern at the end.a studio shot from Jordan: https://www.instagram.com/p/CLfwMEKAy4L/Nice! I love that sound. :coolio
I was thinking of something a bit Wakemanian, but anyway, I love it too and I'm very open for the album.Me too! Kinda little bit of a Tom Sawyer synth pattern at the end.a studio shot from Jordan: https://www.instagram.com/p/CLfwMEKAy4L/Nice! I love that sound. :coolio
Gotta ask: am I the only one that was reminded of Derek Sherinian from this clip? Almost seems more like his choice of sounds and style of playing. Not complaining - I love Derek's playing, sounds and style - nor am I hypothesizing that JR's trying to imitate Derek. In any case, I'm loving it and look forward to seeing what JR does with the Moog One for the new album, and if that's a taste of what to expect on the new album, I'm all for it! :tup
Gotta ask: am I the only one that was reminded of Derek Sherinian from this clip? Almost seems more like his choice of sounds and style of playing. Not complaining - I love Derek's playing, sounds and style - nor am I hypothesizing that JR's trying to imitate Derek.
C'mon DTF, CSI that iPad :lol
I don't have the CSI filter on my copy of Photoshop - sorry guys! :blush But in doing a little bit of poking around, I found a basic instruction video for the Moog One here:C'mon DTF, CSI that iPad :lolThis! :lol
The thing I like the most about awaiting DT15 is that we have no idea where they are headed with this one. After The Astonishing, we had a feeling that the band might go back to basics and do something more concise. This time around, however, we can only guess.Very true.
The thing I like the most about awaiting DT15 is that we have no idea where they are headed with this one. After The Astonishing, we had a feeling that the band might go back to basics and do something more concise. This time around, however, we can only guess.
yes, in my observation they never make the same record twice, and to me that's a good thing. I'm excited.The thing I like the most about awaiting DT15 is that we have no idea where they are headed with this one. After The Astonishing, we had a feeling that the band might go back to basics and do something more concise. This time around, however, we can only guess.
That's a great point! yeah, we couldn't predict the exact details on the album, but on the broad strokes we all knew it was gonna be heavier and concise. Now they could really go anywhere with the direction, keeping in mind they'll hardly tread any recent steps!
I'm glad they ditched the 20+ minute song on every album as the format was getting tired and it sounded like they were just chucking in random sections just to pad out the running time.
I'm kind of stressed not seeing them recording all together...But only future knows !mainly because of the pandemic I'm sure. I'm not one to fret over that to be honest. (and btw, James has largely been recording his vocals separately for quite a few albums, so that's nothing new)
I'm kind of stressed not seeing them recording all together...But only future knows !
k
Wait, how do we know this? I'd find it hilarious if there were a photo of the four guys playing in the studio, and then LaBrie's face looms over on a big screen. :lolI'm kind of stressed not seeing them recording all together...But only future knows !
But you can be sure they wrote the album all together!! At least is what they've been saying about the writing sessions, even JB was there somehow on a big screen in the room. As far as recording, it is kinda a individual process anyway.
Wait, how do we know this? I'd find it hilarious if there were a photo of the four guys playing in the studio, and then LaBrie's face looms over on a big screen. :lolI'm kind of stressed not seeing them recording all together...But only future knows !
But you can be sure they wrote the album all together!! At least is what they've been saying about the writing sessions, even JB was there somehow on a big screen in the room. As far as recording, it is kinda a individual process anyway.
Wait, how do we know this? I'd find it hilarious if there were a photo of the four guys playing in the studio, and then LaBrie's face looms over on a big screen. :lolI'm kind of stressed not seeing them recording all together...But only future knows !
But you can be sure they wrote the album all together!! At least is what they've been saying about the writing sessions, even JB was there somehow on a big screen in the room. As far as recording, it is kinda a individual process anyway.
I believe they mentioned this in an interview, that Labrie joined in on writing sessions through video conference.
Maybe it was on the I&W live stream they did? Can't remember.
Wait, how do we know this? I'd find it hilarious if there were a photo of the four guys playing in the studio, and then LaBrie's face looms over on a big screen. :lol
Wait, how do we know this? I'd find it hilarious if there were a photo of the four guys playing in the studio, and then LaBrie's face looms over on a big screen. :lol
"Right now, in Dream Theater lab - we're writing another album. I didn't want to go down to the States, even though I love the States, because it's brought me everything that I have today.
"I'm not saying that and trying to be funny, I'm being sincere when I say that. I've made my career because I met these guys from America and because I'm in an American band.
"I've had an incredible career because of it but I said to the guys, 'Guys, I don't want to come down there; I don't want to fly, I don't want to do anything like that. I want to stay isolated because I'm reading horror stories about people losing their voice box when they get this [Covid], and their lungs are compromised and I can't do that.'
"So I'm coming in every day when we're writing by Zoom, so they have this great big TV on the wall with my big fuck shot on it, and those four guys are in the studio.
"So those four guys are together at the Dream Theater Headquarters - it's our own studio, warehouse, whatever. And so that's how we communicate every day.
together amazingly."
k
Either you’re not great dealing with contrary opinions to yours (the MM and his playing style “debates” we’ve had as of recent come to mind) or you just like to be childish in your ways of receiving and responding to such opinions. Take it easy, dude. It’s an internet forum.
k
Either you’re not great dealing with contrary opinions to yours (the MM and his playing style “debates” we’ve had as of recent come to mind) or you just like to be childish in your ways of receiving and responding to such opinions. Take it easy, dude. It’s an internet forum.
Octavarium was 24 minutes.
In The Presence of Enemies is 25 minutes
Count of Tuscany is JUST shy of 20 minutes
Illumination theory is 22 minutes
So i'm not sure what YOUR point is... "LOL"
DT has only had a 20+ minute song on 4 out of their 14 albums
So I'm coming in every day when we're writing by Zoom, so they have this great big TV on the wall with my big fuck shot on it...
k
Either you’re not great dealing with contrary opinions to yours (the MM and his playing style “debates” we’ve had as of recent come to mind) or you just like to be childish in your ways of receiving and responding to such opinions. Take it easy, dude. It’s an internet forum.
Octavarium was 24 minutes.
In The Presence of Enemies is 25 minutes
Count of Tuscany is JUST shy of 20 minutes
Illumination theory is 22 minutes
So i'm not sure what YOUR point is... "LOL"
OK, but you just listed 4 long songs as an "argument" to this:QuoteDT has only had a 20+ minute song on 4 out of their 14 albums
He has a point
I don’t think any song needs to be that long.
I don’t think any song needs to be that long.
Songs should be as long as they need to be, however you want to define that. I do feel many of DT's longest songs are longer than they need to be.
JP confirms there will be an 8-string guitar song on the new album.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/interviews/john_petrucci_makes_it_official_dream_theater_made_a_song_with_8-string_guitar_for_new_album.html
"When I got my seven-string, I had never played one before and I didn't know what to expect. The way I approached it was that it was just an extension of the range of the guitar...
..."That's the way I approached it. I think that when you hear the first song that I wrote with it, that I recorded with the band, it sounds like Dream Theater, it sounds like me playing what you might expect.
"It doesn't sound like I'm trying to mimic a style or a genre or anything like that. I'm just playing it in my own way, with my own approach. That's the way I did it. It was so comfortable.
So yesterday i did an interview with Jordan, mostly about LTE but he gave me a bit of hint about DT.
His comments fall in line with what MM wrote about the energy of the album. Still haven't transcribed the interview so i don't want to give any misinformation, and he told me that it's a bit early to go into detail, but he seemed genuinely excited about it.
Also, he's still working on tracking keyboards.
Recently asked Jordan about the mix for the new album. He said Jimmy T is engineering it but will not be mixing it. I know MM previously said they were mixing as they go so who knows?
Now I wonder who's going to mix it. Two names come to mind: Andy Sneap (just mixed JP's album) and Rich Mouser (just mixed LTE3 and did the 5.1 mix for Distant Memories).
Recently asked Jordan about the mix for the new album. He said Jimmy T is engineering it but will not be mixing it. I know MM previously said they were mixing as they go so who knows?
I am really hoping for continued improvement in production. I would even be satisfied if they released a different master on HD tracks rather than just the same master at a higher bitrate. Having an option would be great. D/T was an improvement but I know they could do even better. I have been jealous for DT to have the same quality as a Stephen Wilson album or even Neal Morse's new releases.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CL-YW0fg9cY/?igshid=1m5xgro467g82Not a bad thing at all IMHO. I hope both.
Another cool wizard style pic from Jordan in the studio.
Is it me or the keyboard tracking is taking longer this time around? Not saying that as bad thing at all, it could actually mean either a lot music or a lot of care and attention (or both).
https://www.instagram.com/p/CL-YW0fg9cY/?igshid=1m5xgro467g82
Another cool wizard style pic from Jordan in the studio.
Is it me or the keyboard tracking is taking longer this time around? Not saying that as bad thing at all, it could actually mean either a lot music or a lot of care and attention (or both).
"Just a small passage from the new DT album"Wonderful. (yes these are 64ths (for the first time ever in a DT album), and it's in 3/4. )
https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
"Just a small passage from the new DT album"
https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
"Just a small passage from the new DT album"
https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
lol"Just a small passage from the new DT album"
https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
Grabs headphones
Opens link
WTF??
"Just a small passage from the new DT album"I've started transcribing the whole thing on Muse score. Sounds like something that Jordan would play on the piano.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
https://metalinjection.net/interviews/john-petrucci-talks-liquid-tension-experiment-iii-new-dream-theater-record-and-the-influence-of-rush
"And having said that, it's not like I stopped being busy because I'm on my third or fourth album, I think, since I got home at the end of February (laughs)"
Third OR fourth album???????
Cmon now John,don't play with us...
"Just a small passage from the new DT album"
https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CL_Ha4kA7oM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
Grabs headphones
Opens link
WTF??
There's also 4/4 in the staff above.
Ok, sounds promising, getting 8varium vibes from that last B --> Bb chromatic progression
I'm sure there are about 23 covers of this on YouTube by now....Strangely enough, no, not yet. Not one, actually.
James is off the studio in the next week to start recording. He's currently quarantining in a hotel.
James is off the studio in the next week to start recording. He's currently quarantining in a hotel.where was this mentioned?
James is off the studio in the next week to start recording. He's currently quarantining in a hotel.
Great news. Let's hope his voice is in a good shape, after getting rest from lack of touring.
He used to record in Canada previously right? Or did he record along with the rest of the guys for D/T?
James is off the studio in the next week to start recording. He's currently quarantining in a hotel.where was this mentioned?
It was always my understanding - and it was a bone of contention for Mike, if memory serves - that the band convenes in NY/NJ wherever (I thought now it was "DT HQ") and when the music was done they sent the tapes to James where he was, who then put his stuff on top.I think you are misremembering. For most of DT's albums, James has been in the studio with the band. I think he's only done the "record in Canada after the band" thing in recent years.
Behind the scenes footage of Images & Words (https://youtu.be/l9PfeTKGKOs?t=3643), Falling Into Infinity (https://youtu.be/Q6EbPYlyXvU?t=45), Six Degrees (https://youtu.be/M_nmR6H1juQ?t=1479), ToT (https://youtu.be/TNhkNepkilc?t=835), Systematic Chaos (https://youtu.be/HAFrAMvYlS8?t=1028), and DT12 (https://youtu.be/wNVfsvUFg2w?t=81) all show him in the studio with the other guys for recording (he's also in the behind the scenes for Scenes From A Memory (https://youtu.be/muBfZoIsQoA?t=345), even though you don't see him recording). I think, as you say, him going to Canada to record is a very recent thing. I think it was first tried on The Astonishing and continued in Distance Over Time.It was always my understanding - and it was a bone of contention for Mike, if memory serves - that the band convenes in NY/NJ wherever (I thought now it was "DT HQ") and when the music was done they sent the tapes to James where he was, who then put his stuff on top.I think you are misremembering. For most of DT's albums, James has been in the studio with the band. I think he's only done the "record in Canada after the band" thing in recent years.
Behind the scenes footage of Images & Words (https://youtu.be/l9PfeTKGKOs?t=3643), Falling Into Infinity (https://youtu.be/Q6EbPYlyXvU?t=45), Six Degrees (https://youtu.be/M_nmR6H1juQ?t=1479), ToT (https://youtu.be/TNhkNepkilc?t=835), and Systematic Chaos (https://youtu.be/HAFrAMvYlS8?t=1028) all show him in the studio with the other guys for recording (he's also in the behind the scenes for Scenes From A Memory (https://youtu.be/muBfZoIsQoA?t=345), even though you don't see him recording). I'm pretty sure the same is true of DT12. I think, as you say, him going to Canada to record is a very recent thing. I think it was first tried on The Astonishing and continued in Distance Over Time.It was always my understanding - and it was a bone of contention for Mike, if memory serves - that the band convenes in NY/NJ wherever (I thought now it was "DT HQ") and when the music was done they sent the tapes to James where he was, who then put his stuff on top.I think you are misremembering. For most of DT's albums, James has been in the studio with the band. I think he's only done the "record in Canada after the band" thing in recent years.
Interesting!ADTOE was also recorded in Canada.Behind the scenes footage of Images & Words (https://youtu.be/l9PfeTKGKOs?t=3643), Falling Into Infinity (https://youtu.be/Q6EbPYlyXvU?t=45), Six Degrees (https://youtu.be/M_nmR6H1juQ?t=1479), ToT (https://youtu.be/TNhkNepkilc?t=835), and Systematic Chaos (https://youtu.be/HAFrAMvYlS8?t=1028) all show him in the studio with the other guys for recording (he's also in the behind the scenes for Scenes From A Memory (https://youtu.be/muBfZoIsQoA?t=345), even though you don't see him recording). I'm pretty sure the same is true of DT12. I think, as you say, him going to Canada to record is a very recent thing. I think it was first tried on The Astonishing and continued in Distance Over Time.It was always my understanding - and it was a bone of contention for Mike, if memory serves - that the band convenes in NY/NJ wherever (I thought now it was "DT HQ") and when the music was done they sent the tapes to James where he was, who then put his stuff on top.I think you are misremembering. For most of DT's albums, James has been in the studio with the band. I think he's only done the "record in Canada after the band" thing in recent years.
Of the last four records, I think only the vocals on the self titled album weren't recorded in Canada.Correct.
Of the last four records, I think only the vocals on the self titled album weren't recorded in Canada.Correct.
confirmed via James' Instagram stories just now as well.James is off the studio in the next week to start recording. He's currently quarantining in a hotel.where was this mentioned?
Cameo
another post by Jordan: https://www.instagram.com/p/CMEEGJgAGzl/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CMEEGJgAGzl/)
another post by Jordan: https://www.instagram.com/p/CMEEGJgAGzl/
Considering the time this is taking for them to record, specially keyboards, I'm starting to think we're either getting another double album (non concept) like SDOIT or a "bonus" disc with a bunch of extra stuff.James will start tracking very soon (likely this week as he posted in an Insta story.) More as it happens of course. I presume Jordan is finished tracking now too. (he alluded to it during a livestream I watched recently.) Note that usually, vocals are the last link in the chain. (before mixing and mastering of course)
I really wish they posted more updates, but I don't think they'll reveal much for a while, specially considering LTE3 is being released in a few weeks.
Considering the time this is taking for them to record, specially keyboards, I'm starting to think we're either getting another double album (non concept) like SDOIT or a "bonus" disc with a bunch of extra stuff.
I really wish they posted more updates, but I don't think they'll reveal much for a while, specially considering LTE3 is being released in a few weeks.
another post by Jordan: https://www.instagram.com/p/CMEEGJgAGzl/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CMEEGJgAGzl/)
Headphones on now, TAC :lol
Considering the time this is taking for them to record, specially keyboards, I'm starting to think we're either getting another double album (non concept) like SDOIT or a "bonus" disc with a bunch of extra stuff.James will start tracking very soon (likely this week as he posted in an Insta story.) More as it happens of course. I presume Jordan is finished tracking now too. (he alluded to it during a livestream I watched recently.) Note that usually, vocals are the last link in the chain. (before mixing and mastering of course)
I really wish they posted more updates, but I don't think they'll reveal much for a while, specially considering LTE3 is being released in a few weeks.
IIRC, James was the last one to track during the D/T sessions. (and I mentioned usually for this very reason. Of course John may add in some solos, how would I know by now.)Considering the time this is taking for them to record, specially keyboards, I'm starting to think we're either getting another double album (non concept) like SDOIT or a "bonus" disc with a bunch of extra stuff.James will start tracking very soon (likely this week as he posted in an Insta story.) More as it happens of course. I presume Jordan is finished tracking now too. (he alluded to it during a livestream I watched recently.) Note that usually, vocals are the last link in the chain. (before mixing and mastering of course)
I really wish they posted more updates, but I don't think they'll reveal much for a while, specially considering LTE3 is being released in a few weeks.
I thought JP did solos after vocals ?
I thought JP did solos after vocals ?Considering the time this is taking for them to record, specially keyboards, I'm starting to think we're either getting another double album (non concept) like SDOIT or a "bonus" disc with a bunch of extra stuff.James will start tracking very soon (likely this week as he posted in an Insta story.) More as it happens of course. I presume Jordan is finished tracking now too. (he alluded to it during a livestream I watched recently.) Note that usually, vocals are the last link in the chain. (before mixing and mastering of course)
I really wish they posted more updates, but I don't think they'll reveal much for a while, specially considering LTE3 is being released in a few weeks.
Comment from Jordan on his Patreon, a little hint: "Hello everyone, I had a really wonderful three weeks recording on my keyboard tracks for Dream theater. I feel like it’s probably some of the best stuff we’ve ever done and I’m honestly very excited about it..."
Comment from Jordan on his Patreon, a little hint: "Hello everyone, I had a really wonderful three weeks recording on my keyboard tracks for Dream theater. I feel like it’s probably some of the best stuff we’ve ever done and I’m honestly very excited about it..."added in, thanks very much
I am aware Patreon is a paid membership so I don't want to post everything he says here for free but any small snippets that I can I will. He does some great streams with Q&A's and is actively involved with his members, support your favourite muso's! Go check it out - https://www.patreon.com/Jordanrudess (https://www.patreon.com/Jordanrudess)
I don't remember DT relying too much on the "best stuff we've ever done" trope, let's hope Jordan is a good judge of their own music then! :hatthe last time I remember them saying so was when they made DT12. (which was an accurate description IMHO, and it's one of my favourites), but then again Jordan said D/T was an amazing album when he was finished tracking. (and it's not one I like a lot.) I don't go by what they say a lot, but his sheet music post made me a lot more optimistic about DT15. Anyway, I'll be back once there is something new to add in.
I don't remember DT relying too much on the "best stuff we've ever done" trope, let's hope Jordan is a good judge of their own music then! :hat
I know there are no keyboards, but I hope we get something kinda like Temple of Circadia. :metal
I don't remember DT relying too much on the "best stuff we've ever done" trope, let's hope Jordan is a good judge of their own music then! :hatSomehow I doubt we'll ever hear:
The post-Portnoy track record doesn't leave me with high expectations.
I don't remember DT relying too much on the "best stuff we've ever done" trope, let's hope Jordan is a good judge of their own music then! :hatSomehow I doubt we'll ever hear:
"To be frank I'm a little bit underwhelmed by the new material. Not that it's bad or anything. I don't know. Maybe I just expected something with a little more wallop. *shrugs* Well...I suppose these new tracks I'm currently recording will do. "
-Jordan Rudess
The post-Portnoy track record doesn't leave me with high expectations.I'm shocked.
I don't remember DT relying too much on the "best stuff we've ever done" trope, let's hope Jordan is a good judge of their own music then! :hatSomehow I doubt we'll ever hear:
"To be frank I'm a little bit underwhelmed by the new material. Not that it's bad or anything. I don't know. Maybe I just expected something with a little more wallop. *shrugs* Well...I suppose these new tracks I'm currently recording will do. "
-Jordan Rudess
This is now the fake Jordan Rudess new album quotes thread :P
"The new stuff is OK, we didn't break any new ground at all, but I'm OK with it being released like this. It's good enough, I guess."
I'd like to hear more songs like At Wit's End, Barstool Warrior and Untethered Angel and less songs like S2N, Room 137 and Paralyzed
I don't remember DT relying too much on the "best stuff we've ever done" trope, let's hope Jordan is a good judge of their own music then! :hatSomehow I doubt we'll ever hear:
"To be frank I'm a little bit underwhelmed by the new material. Not that it's bad or anything. I don't know. Maybe I just expected something with a little more wallop. *shrugs* Well...I suppose these new tracks I'm currently recording will do. "
-Jordan Rudess
This is now the fake Jordan Rudess new album quotes thread :P
"The new stuff is OK, we didn't break any new ground at all, but I'm OK with it being released like this. It's good enough, I guess."
If I were a musician and I was asked about how good is a new album, I'd use a travel analogy.That's a great analogy. Although truth be told, sometimes your best vacation far exceeds the next one, so that's not always entirely true! ;). But still, I get what you're saying, and it's much better than saying "this is our best album EVAR!" for the umpteenth time.
"What's your best holiday? the one you had last year, or the one you're planning now? last year you went to New York, you saw the Empire State Building, Manhattan, the Statue of Liberty. You enjoyed it, you've been there. But now you're going to San Francisco, the Golden Gate, the ocean, the atmosphere of the town. Which town is better? there's no correct answer, but it's normal to be excited for your future trip rather than continously watching the pictures of the old vacation. We did our last album two years ago, we've been there, but now we're creating new music and we're excited as hell about this new adventure, only time will tell how this album will sit in the rest of the discography, right now we're very happy with it because it's brand new!"
Or something like that.
If I were a musician and I was asked about how good is a new album, I'd use a travel analogy.
"What's your best holiday? the one you had last year, or the one you're planning now? last year you went to New York, you saw the Empire State Building, Manhattan, the Statue of Liberty. You enjoyed it, you've been there. But now you're going to San Francisco, the Golden Gate, the ocean, the atmosphere of the town. Which town is better? there's no correct answer, but it's normal to be excited for your future trip rather than continously watching the pictures of the old vacation. We did our last album two years ago, we've been there, but now we're creating new music and we're excited as hell about this new adventure, only time will tell how this album will sit in the rest of the discography, right now we're very happy with it because it's brand new!"
Or something like that.
That's a great analogy. Although truth be told, sometimes your best vacation far exceeds the next one, so that's not always entirely true!
I don't remember DT relying too much on the "best stuff we've ever done" trope, let's hope Jordan is a good judge of their own music then! :hatSomehow I doubt we'll ever hear:
"To be frank I'm a little bit underwhelmed by the new material. Not that it's bad or anything. I don't know. Maybe I just expected something with a little more wallop. *shrugs* Well...I suppose these new tracks I'm currently recording will do. "
-Kevin Moore
I get what you're all saying, but it's not like Jordan always hypes every DT album as "the best we've ever done", I think his excitement is genuine here.
It's quite the opposite with MP, who has arguably released the best album of his career about 4-5 times in the last decade (according to him, of course) :lol
I get what you're all saying, but it's not like Jordan always hypes every DT album as "the best we've ever done", I think his excitement is genuine here.
It's quite the opposite with MP, who has arguably released the best album of his career about 4-5 times in the last decade (according to him, of course) :lol
Be fair: in a couple cases, he's been right.
Jordan mentioned in his stream yesterday, "We definitely upped it a notch sonically" in regards to the keyboards on the upcoming album, he hasn't told his tech what's coming yet. It's going to be a lot of work getting it tour ready. He also worked with JP and Jimmy T on a new lead sound using the Kronos and Neural DSP for a 'smoother and more focused' tone.Good. Good.
Usually my favorite DT albums are the ones with a lot of keyboard presence (SFAM, SDOIT, IAW, etc), so this sounds great :metal :metal :metal
They make ADTOE Part 2 I'll be one happy camper. That album slays :metal
They make ADTOE Part 2 I'll be one happy camper. That album slays :metalI hope so, but 10x more difficult.
I get what you're all saying, but it's not like Jordan always hypes every DT album as "the best we've ever done", I think his excitement is genuine here.
It's quite the opposite with MP, who has arguably released the best album of his career about 4-5 times in the last decade (according to him, of course) :lol
Be fair: in a couple cases, he's been right.
Oh wow...JR actually spent the time to work on his sounds and create new ones.
This album is not going to sound like anything we've heard from JR before in Dream Theater. Now that has me excited to hear his new tones and sounds and how those will change the way the music of Dream Theater sounds.
The post-Portnoy track record doesn't leave me with high expectations.I'm shocked.
Usually my favorite DT albums are the ones with a lot of keyboard presence (SFAM, SDOIT, IAW, etc), so this sounds great :metal :metal :metalThis, except sub ADTOE for SDOIT.
ToT is not keyboard heavy but that one is one of my faves and is the exception.
ADTOE is also the strongest Mangini-era album imo as well, and no surprise, is the most keyboard dominated of the last 4 albums.
They make ADTOE Part 2 I'll be one happy camper. That album slays :metal
At least for me, if we're limiting to just the last decade or so, I'd say The Whirlwind and Similitude would be the 2.I get what you're all saying, but it's not like Jordan always hypes every DT album as "the best we've ever done", I think his excitement is genuine here.
It's quite the opposite with MP, who has arguably released the best album of his career about 4-5 times in the last decade (according to him, of course) :lol
Be fair: in a couple cases, he's been right.
Just out of curiosity, what albums released in the last decade do you consider to be the best two albums in his entire career? Not asking to be a dick or to argue, we’re all entitled to our opinion. Genuinely interested in what you think are MP’s best two albums.
Usually my favorite DT albums are the ones with a lot of keyboard presence (SFAM, SDOIT, IAW, etc), so this sounds great :metal :metal :metalThis, except sub ADTOE for SDOIT.
They make ADTOE Part 2 I'll be one happy camper. That album slays :metalI hope so, but 10x more difficult.
At least for me, if we're limiting to just the last decade or so, I'd say The Whirlwind and Similitude would be the 2.I get what you're all saying, but it's not like Jordan always hypes every DT album as "the best we've ever done", I think his excitement is genuine here.
It's quite the opposite with MP, who has arguably released the best album of his career about 4-5 times in the last decade (according to him, of course) :lol
Be fair: in a couple cases, he's been right.
Just out of curiosity, what albums released in the last decade do you consider to be the best two albums in his entire career? Not asking to be a dick or to argue, we’re all entitled to our opinion. Genuinely interested in what you think are MP’s best two albums.
At least for me, if we're limiting to just the last decade or so, I'd say The Whirlwind and Similitude would be the 2.I get what you're all saying, but it's not like Jordan always hypes every DT album as "the best we've ever done", I think his excitement is genuine here.
It's quite the opposite with MP, who has arguably released the best album of his career about 4-5 times in the last decade (according to him, of course) :lol
Be fair: in a couple cases, he's been right.
Just out of curiosity, what albums released in the last decade do you consider to be the best two albums in his entire career? Not asking to be a dick or to argue, we’re all entitled to our opinion. Genuinely interested in what you think are MP’s best two albums.
What if the new album is self-titled again??
well, Weather Report had two self titled studio albums in their discography (their first and their tenth, in 1971 and 1982 respectively). I refer to DT's self titled album as DT12. (and I'm sure most here do as well). Why did WR do it? I don't know.What if the new album is self-titled again??
What even would be the sense of it and how would we distinguish them?
Is it confirmed that the album title will be DT15 ? , or just for discussion purposes till title info is released?Hmmmmm...
Thanks !
it seems I preempted you there, very sorry. I always refer to DT albums in the making like that. (always did too)Is it confirmed that the album title will be DT15 ? , or just for discussion purposes till title info is released?Hmmmmm...
Thanks !
No reason to be sorry. Just seems like a strange question.it seems I preempted you there, very sorry. I always refer to DT albums in the making like that. (always did too)Is it confirmed that the album title will be DT15 ? , or just for discussion purposes till title info is released?Hmmmmm...
Thanks !
What if the new album is self-titled again??
What even would be the sense of it and how would we distinguish them?
With JP using an 8 string guitar on the new album, everyone is expecting some mean and heavy 8string riffage. But I had this random thought that what if he decides to troll us hard and the track where he uses it is a soft mellow song where he uses rich extended chord voicings with a clean sound. It's probably not going to be the case, but I thought it would be funny :lol
With JP using an 8 string guitar on the new album, everyone is expecting some mean and heavy 8string riffage. But I had this random thought that what if he decides to troll us hard and the track where he uses it is a soft mellow song where he uses rich extended chord voicings with a clean sound. It's probably not going to be the case, but I thought it would be funny :lol
inb4 he uses an 8 string guitar without ever playing the lowest string :justjen
Mangini interviewadded in, thanks very much. (although I prefer to use the original source page.)
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-mangini-says-he-was-way-more-involved-in-making-of-dream-theaters-upcoming-album/
"the songs are lengthy."
THANK YOU.
Mangini interview
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-mangini-says-he-was-way-more-involved-in-making-of-dream-theaters-upcoming-album/
"the songs are lengthy."
THANK YOU.
Cool. That probably means they're more proggy/jammy with crazy instrumental sections. Fucking A :metal
I just had the same dread as when I heard that BC&SL was only 6 songs :mehlin
I hope that they at least follow the ADTOE, DT12, D/T mould.
"the songs are lengthy."
I'll change my short summary in the title page. Thanks for pointing me to it."the songs are lengthy."
Which isn't really the point of what he is saying at all. So that's kind of misleading to take out of context. His point is simply that, due to the "energy" of the songs, they flow by and feel like they are over before you know it. Funny that you would take a sound bite out of context when he goes on a min-rant in that interview about people not doing that very thing.
:lol I hate you.me? Oh dear. Never intended to trigger that. (btw, I do try to react swiftly when someone mentions something to me while also keeping it concise. Hope it works out for this thread.)
Oh, I thought you were joking and went to change it to "long songs" as a result of my post. Sorry. :lolno, I read the Blabbermouth post (which mentioned long songs) and used that first, but then I actually found the source post with Mike's audio interview and then I realised my mistake, and you clarified it again, so thanks. Nonetheless, I can't hide my excitement just now. Anyway, I'll be back once I find something noteworthy.
That could be something to look forward to. Last time we got lengthy songs was A Dramatic turn of events, which was awesome. :metal
If they made ADTOE v2.0 I'd be THRILLED :corn
Mangini interview
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-mangini-says-he-was-way-more-involved-in-making-of-dream-theaters-upcoming-album/
"the songs are lengthy."
THANK YOU.
I took it to mean lengthy. here are a couple of quotes "And the songs are lengthy"........... "we were always shocked at the length, because it seemed like it went by — it flew by." :tup
If they made ADTOE v2.0 I'd be THRILLED :corn
Particularly with the depth of sound that D/T has in its production. The song scope of ADToE plus D/T's mix would be quite the recipe for success.
Yes and if they don't master it too hot it could be their best album since Scenes From A Memory or Octavarium.
All this talk about whether or not the new songs are long has got me thinking: when should we expect the proper album announcement/press release? I'm thinking sometime around mid to late May.
I have to say, I came to Dream Theater at a really good time. It's been 5 years in February since my "discovery". TA and tour. IW&B tour, d/t and tour, Distant Memories, Terminal Velocity. Before the year ends we can add another DT record and LTE. I have been living in the best candy store evah! :metal :yarrNice! The candy store has always been pretty sweet throughout DT history.
"the songs are lengthy."
Which isn't really the point of what he is saying at all. So that's kind of misleading to take out of context. His point is simply that, due to the "energy" of the songs, they flow by and feel like they are over before you know it. Funny that you would take a sound bite out of context when he goes on a min-rant in that interview about people not doing that very thing.
I haven’t got into the interview yet but people are reading an awful lot into “the songs are lengthy”. I mean, come on, this is Dream Theater, lengthy songs is their thing. Aside from The Astonishing (and even that had the odd lengthy song) all DT albums are full of lengthy songs. If he said the songs are longer than they usually do, then fine that’s something to discuss but a Dream Theater album having lengthy songs is just about the least surprising thing he could say.
Until we have the length of the songs all I can say is bravo to JP. Finally he is doing some fan service that was long overdue.
PS: John if you're reading (I know you are) try making it more of an album that stands out!
JR Patreon Update: James expecting to finish recording vox at the end of next week. All other tracks done. Jimmy T will be then doing prep ready for it to be sent off for mixing and mastering.Good. Good. Thanks very much. I'll add it in, but I will supplement it with an Insta post or the like once James is actually finished. (since it's more openly accessible than Patreon)
Hello everybody,Now, I think that John using his 8 melodically would actually be likely, because remember, the guy breathes great melodies. (which is what I love about his playing)
I was inactive on the forum for a while due to the preparation for my graduation in piano. All I can say is that, IMHO, "lenghty songs" does not necessarily mean that they are 12-14 minutes long. Regarding this "Images and Words" has five songs above 7 minutes, with the longest of them that lasts 11, and they still have an 'energetic feel' that makes them sound like shorter songs. That said, I don't care much if JP takes a 'djenty' approach in the eight-string guitar song, I believe that in any case DT will be able to create something special. Finally, I remember a post who spoke of the JP would be trolling us so that the eight-string guitar is used in a completely clean and mellow context, even in that case the result actually would be pretty cool and innovative. :angel:
All I can say is that, IMHO, "lenghty songs" does not necessarily mean that they are 12-14 minutes long. Regarding this "Images and Words" has five songs above 7 minutes, with the longest of them that lasts 11, and they still have an 'energetic feel' that makes them sound like shorter songs.
Hello everybody,and btw, congratulations if you graduated. Anyway, carry on.
I was inactive on the forum for a while due to the preparation for my graduation in piano. All I can say is that, IMHO, "lenghty songs" does not necessarily mean that they are 12-14 minutes long. Regarding this "Images and Words" has five songs above 7 minutes, with the longest of them that lasts 11, and they still have an 'energetic feel' that makes them sound like shorter songs. That said, I don't care much if JP takes a 'djenty' approach in the eight-string guitar song, I believe that in any case DT will be able to create something special. Finally, I remember a post who spoke of the JP would be trolling us so that the eight-string guitar is used in a completely clean and mellow context, even in that case the result actually would be pretty cool and innovative. :angel:
Now, I think that John using his 8 melodically would actually be likely, because remember, the guy breathes great melodies. (which is what I love about his playing)Surely the voicing possibilities of the eight-string guitar could easily give space to more complex harmonies such as the additional 7th, 9th or even 11th of the chord. I've seen on YouTube various videos in which these possibilities are beautifully presented in a mellow and clean sound, even with a nine-string guitar.
Yeah, good point. Pull Me Under is a "basic" song for their standards, not for nothing it got so much airplay, but it's 8 minutes long in the end. I'm sure we might see at least a 10 minutes song on the new album, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're "long" as the I&W songs, who are relatively normal in length but definitively have so much going on.That's the reason why Images and Words is my favourite album of DT (possibly of all time), the way the ideas and riffs are merged into the songs just flow in a magnificent way and are incredibly (musically speaking) coherent, in no sense we can say that the sections in those songs are forced, they just flow.
and btw, congratulations if you graduated. Anyway, carry on.Thank you very much man, here in Italy we have two cycles of degrees in piano. I've graduated the first and I'm intentioned to start the second this year, which would eventually allow me to teach piano in a Conservatory in the future.
I don't remember which interview it was in, but JP had commented that his approach to using the 8-string will be just the same as he did when he first used a 7-string on Awake: it gave him a broader range from which to work within. So I would imagine that his use of the 8-string is gonna be pretty different from all the djenty bands out there. Yeah, there might be some djent, but probably very little, if any at all.Hello everybody,Now, I think that John using his 8 melodically would actually be likely, because remember, the guy breathes great melodies. (which is what I love about his playing)
I was inactive on the forum for a while due to the preparation for my graduation in piano. All I can say is that, IMHO, "lenghty songs" does not necessarily mean that they are 12-14 minutes long. Regarding this "Images and Words" has five songs above 7 minutes, with the longest of them that lasts 11, and they still have an 'energetic feel' that makes them sound like shorter songs. That said, I don't care much if JP takes a 'djenty' approach in the eight-string guitar song, I believe that in any case DT will be able to create something special. Finally, I remember a post who spoke of the JP would be trolling us so that the eight-string guitar is used in a completely clean and mellow context, even in that case the result actually would be pretty cool and innovative. :angel:
No insult from my side, it's just something a lot of people were asking for a long time and if it's going to happen it will be even more exciting for all of us, don't you agree? Also this is the official forum of his band..it will be weird not reading us from time to time!Until we have the length of the songs all I can say is bravo to JP. Finally he is doing some fan service that was long overdue.
PS: John if you're reading (I know you are) try making it more of an album that stands out!
Seriously? Nice way to direct an insult at JP. And no he doesn’t read this thread.
While everyone is different, I think a lot of established bands don't read their fan forums, official or not, because they don't want to be overwhelmed with the criticisms.
That pic is great! I think he could rock the white hair quite nicely.
I think the last all around great 20 minute song was Octavarium.
That pic is great! I think he could rock the white hair quite nicely.
I agree. I hope the band moves past the hair dye phase.
He's at DTHQ.
I don't think it would.I think the last all around great 20 minute song was Octavarium.
The Count of Tuscany would disagree with you.
He's at DTHQ.
Sure about this? James didn't want to travel to the US and he and Chance (his son) setup a home recording studio.
So i've told you guys about an interview i had done with Jordan, it's finally published.
Unfortunately for you it's translated in greek, hopefully google translate does a decent job:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.rocking.gr/interviews/jordan-rudess/38077 (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.rocking.gr/interviews/jordan-rudess/38077)
The album will have four ballads, one epic, and a cover of "Hello Darlin'" by Conway Twitty.
Yeah in terms of style James has moved to a bit of a cringy phase in the past few years.
I think his grey hair looks badass, and he would look great if he kept it this way.
I find these discussions about DTs looks silly. I don't think DT look any more ridiculous than any other metal band. They are just playing up to a look/brand. They're "rock stars" after all, not working a 9 to 5 office job...
I find these discussions about DTs looks silly. I don't think DT look any more ridiculous than any other metal band. They are just playing up to a look/brand. They're "rock stars" after all, not working a 9 to 5 office job...
I mean, maybe JP just wants to have a long beard and dye it black... because he thinks it looks neat? I don't get how, just because he kind of embodies sort of a typical metal look, that somehow he feels like he HAS to look like that. Maybe he legit just got bored of his old look and wanted something different, it's hardly comparable to doing drugs or anything of the sort. It's not like his look is something that everyone secretly agrees is bad but he feels like he has to have it cause metal. For all we know, it could very well be the reverse and he did the short hair thing out of pressure to get with that early 00s aesthetic... but again, it also could've been that he legit liked it.
When you see those 70 year old guys walking around town with jet black hair - they just look ridiculous. And also the thing is - if their hair was white - nobody would be looking at them.
All I know is it's really strange seeing JR with hair on his head. :omg:And he looks better as a result. :tup
I find these discussions about DTs looks silly. I don't think DT look any more ridiculous than any other metal band. They are just playing up to a look/brand. They're "rock stars" after all, not working a 9 to 5 office job...
I find these discussions about DTs looks silly. I don't think DT look any more ridiculous than any other metal band. They are just playing up to a look/brand. They're "rock stars" after all, not working a 9 to 5 office job...
Of course it is.
I will never understand how a bunch of grown men care so much about what other grown men in a band look like.
I will never understand how a bunch of grown men care so much about what other grown men in a band look like.
I will never understand how a bunch of grown men care so much about what other grown men in a band look like.
I know. Imagine moaning about JP’s sick beard looking silly when Lamb of God’s singer has dreadlocks. And he’s white.
I will never understand how a bunch of grown men care so much about what other grown men in a band look like.
I will never understand how a bunch of grown men care so much about what other grown men in a band look like.
I know. Imagine moaning about JP’s sick beard looking silly when Lamb of God’s singer has dreadlocks. And he’s white.
TIL having dreadlocks is " Cultural Appropriation " ;D ;D
Aren't dreadlocks what happen when you literally never wash or brush your hair like ever ? Which is why Max Cavalera had like one huge fat dreadlock
where his hair was never brushed or washed ?
I will never understand how a bunch of grown men care so much about what other grown men in a band look like.
Talking about it does not necessarily equate to "care so much." I never even think about it, but when I saw chatter about it, I chimed in with my immediate thought about it and didn't give it a second one after that.
TIL having dreadlocks is " Cultural Appropriation " ;D ;D
I will never understand how a bunch of grown men care so much about what other grown men in a band look like.Well, this sounds like something spoken by someone who ONLY CARES ABOUT THE MUSIC. Which is, of course, fine.
it's just one of those things that feels a tad out of place in a thread that isn't really about that??? This is DTF. Have you ever been here before? No thread is about what it's about.
Well, this has gone off the rails somewhat.
So uhhhh...
New DT album, right guys? You know, if the album does get released in September (say, the 24th), we could probably expect (if there's a similar pattern to D/T, with the announcement being up 15 weeks before the album's release and the single about 11 weeks) there to be a full announcement on about 11th of June and a single around the 9th of July. On the other hand, we may have a more prolonged promotion cycle to tide people over. Funnily enough, if James completes his vocal parts by the end of this month, that would mean that the recording process would be in about the same timeframe as Black Clouds and Silver Linings was (October to March) and yet there is probably going to be a 3 month difference in release month between DT15 and Black Clouds, so it'll be interesting to see how they cope with that. I'm also assuming that the mixing/mastering follows a similar length of time, though.
me too. Well we'll see, yes we shall see. (G minor cadence)Well, this has gone off the rails somewhat.
So uhhhh...
New DT album, right guys? You know, if the album does get released in September (say, the 24th), we could probably expect (if there's a similar pattern to D/T, with the announcement being up 15 weeks before the album's release and the single about 11 weeks) there to be a full announcement on about 11th of June and a single around the 9th of July. On the other hand, we may have a more prolonged promotion cycle to tide people over. Funnily enough, if James completes his vocal parts by the end of this month, that would mean that the recording process would be in about the same timeframe as Black Clouds and Silver Linings was (October to March) and yet there is probably going to be a 3 month difference in release month between DT15 and Black Clouds, so it'll be interesting to see how they cope with that. I'm also assuming that the mixing/mastering follows a similar length of time, though.
Thank you.
I think the September release is a bit too far, considering the album could be already finished (mixed and mastered) by, let's say, the end of April.
There doesn't seem to be a tour anytime soon for them anyway, and Rock in Rio (their only announced date) has been canceled already, so why sit for a few months with the finished album when there's not gonna be an immediate support tour anyway?
TL;DR: I'm hoping it gets released earlier.
me too. Well we'll see, yes we shall see. (G minor cadence)
Thank you.
I think the September release is a bit too far, considering the album could be already finished (mixed and mastered) by, let's say, the end of April.
There doesn't seem to be a tour anytime soon for them anyway, and Rock in Rio (their only announced date) has been canceled already, so why sit for a few months with the finished album when there's not gonna be an immediate support tour anyway?
TL;DR: I'm hoping it gets released earlier.
oh of course. You're right, I'm sorry. (I know this piece so well, should have known better. I'm fairly sure it was in G minor though.)
me too. Well we'll see, yes we shall see. (G minor cadence)
*Suspended fourth to major third resolution*
A lot of bands have sat upon complete (or almost complete) albums this year until they are nearing touring possibility and I can see DT doing the same. After all, the album creates the hype for the tour, but the tour is actually what earns the money.
I agree there's a fine line between releasing too early and the album effectively "disappearing" and leaving it to late so that interest is lost.
Then again, it could be a mega double album or something hence the long production timeline. :D
A lot of bands have sat upon complete (or almost complete) albums this year until they are nearing touring possibility and I can see DT doing the same. After all, the album creates the hype for the tour, but the tour is actually what earns the money.That's my thought, too. One other thing I could envision them doing, although I doubt they will, is to have recorded extra material that could be released as an EP to satiate the fans and keep the interest up, and then when it looks like things will finally resume, to release a full album of separate material. When they go on tour, in essence they would be touring in support of 2 releases, but I don't see that being a problem.
I agree there's a fine line between releasing too early and the album effectively "disappearing" and leaving it to late so that interest is lost.
A lot of bands have sat upon complete (or almost complete) albums this year until they are nearing touring possibility and I can see DT doing the same. After all, the album creates the hype for the tour, but the tour is actually what earns the money.That's my thought, too. One other thing I could envision them doing, although I doubt they will, is to have recorded extra material that could be released as an EP to satiate the fans and keep the interest up, and then when it looks like things will finally resume, to release a full album of separate material. When they go on tour, in essence they would be touring in support of 2 releases, but I don't see that being a problem.
I agree there's a fine line between releasing too early and the album effectively "disappearing" and leaving it to late so that interest is lost.
oh of course. You're right, I'm sorry. (I know this piece so well, should have known better. I'm fairly sure it was in G minor though.)
me too. Well we'll see, yes we shall see. (G minor cadence)
*Suspended fourth to major third resolution*
I will never understand how a bunch of grown men care so much about what other grown men in a band look like.Well, this sounds like something spoken by someone who ONLY CARES ABOUT THE MUSIC. Which is, of course, fine.
But the guys in the band do not ONLY CARE ABOUT THE MUSIC. They are professional musicians. To be successful at their profession, the actual music is only one part of it.
Another part is marketing.
Another part is, like it or not, image.
How they choose to present themselves, especially if that is anything other than their REAL look, is totally fair game to talk about, IMO.
Good point and I've brought this up before. As much as some people have very specific opinions on the the length and color of their hair, facial hair, clothing, and all the rest (which me calling out those fans obsession is also fair game), the band is somewhat bound by marketing. It's sad because I'm sure we would all like the music to be most important but their marketability would plummet if they all cut their hair, stopped dying it, and wore cargo shorts, with a wedding reception lighting rig providing a few colored lights during their performance.I agree with this. But I think the problem is the way the guys are going about things. Around the time of their self-titled album, and before, I don't think there was any real concern/discussion about their appearance in comparison to now. And now, it's been focused just on JP and JL. I don't see anyone taking issue with JR shaving his head or continuing to grow his chin beard, MM growing his hair out or JM maintaining the same appearance he's had since day one. It's just that the appearances of JP and JL no longer look natural, and the fact that they're using jet black dye products and JP's mountain man beard age them rather than help them maintain a more youthful appearance. Not saying they shouldn't dye their hair, or have facial hair if they choose to, but maybe something a bit more moderate. Let's go by "What Would Rush Do?" Those 3 obviously dyed their hair, and Alex even ended up starting to wear a hair piece. But it all look natural (at least to me) and not out of place. I think the fact that the same is not true of JP and JL's recent appearance is why we're seeing this discussion.
Hey, while we're talking fashion, JLB wore a duster like coat for the first few songs at several shows on their 2011 tour. Can we agree that he looked awesome and he should bring back the duster like coat?If you're talking about that super long coat, that definitely looked cool. Can only imagine how hot that thing must have been under the stage lights though! :eek
James has finished recording vocals.added in, thanks very much.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CM8IAmlMtIb/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CM8IAmlMtIb/)
Thank you.
I think the September release is a bit too far, considering the album could be already finished (mixed and mastered) by, let's say, the end of April.
There doesn't seem to be a tour anytime soon for them anyway, and Rock in Rio (their only announced date) has been canceled already, so why sit for a few months with the finished album when there's not gonna be an immediate support tour anyway?
TL;DR: I'm hoping it gets released earlier.
Don't get me wrong, it's my hope too that we'll see a release in about June time as was the case with Black Clouds, but given that MM has given a month and repeated it in interviews, I think they're going to hold off. While it's true that a tour is likely far away, I think they would still want to walk a balance between releasing it late enough for the touring to catch that momentum as well as still early enough to not be too frustrating to await. It's worth noting though that it isn't likely for them to release an album in the summer months too. That may be the roadblock to a July/August release in this case.
Insight is 20/20 I guess, but I think that if more bands knew back in March 2020 that touring would not happen for two years, maybe they would have been more daring with their free time.
I know, everyone reacts differently to a pandemic, bands have plans, money is in touring anyway so there's not much commercial sense in releasing an album, etc etc.... but as I said, if given secure proof of "you'll be able to tour only in 2022" one year ago, maybe some bands could have come up with studio efforts or even different stuff.
I mean, for all of you not passing in the General music discussion, one of the hot threads is about Taylor Swift - while being a pop / country singer, in the pandemic she wrote not one, but two acoustic and minimal albums, to great critical acclaim.
I wish DT would have done something like that - "hey, since we can't tour, here's a different kind of album to pass time". Something weird and unusual, a collection of cover, an acoustic or more mellow one, a "we can't get out so here's something we needed to musically get off our chest". I would have loved a "pit-stop" album as a bridge to a regular album that would come out when touring will be possible again.
Insight is 20/20 I guess, but I think that if more bands knew back in March 2020 that touring would not happen for two years, maybe they would have been more daring with their free time.
I know, everyone reacts differently to a pandemic, bands have plans, money is in touring anyway so there's not much commercial sense in releasing an album, etc etc.... but as I said, if given secure proof of "you'll be able to tour only in 2022" one year ago, maybe some bands could have come up with studio efforts or even different stuff.
I mean, for all of you not passing in the General music discussion, one of the hot threads is about Taylor Swift - while being a pop / country singer, in the pandemic she wrote not one, but two acoustic and minimal albums, to great critical acclaim.
I wish DT would have done something like that - "hey, since we can't tour, here's a different kind of album to pass time". Something weird and unusual, a collection of cover, an acoustic or more mellow one, a "we can't get out so here's something we needed to musically get off our chest". I would have loved a "pit-stop" album as a bridge to a regular album that would come out when touring will be possible again.
Also JP got 3 studio and 1 live album(s?) done in the timeframe. Very productive.
Also JP got 3 studio and 1 live album(s?) done in the timeframe. Very productive.
This. We're forgetting that most of the band are also working on side projects at a rate that they wouldn't have otherwise. We got:
Nick D'Virgillio's Invisible (with Jordan guesting)
Virtual Symmetry's Exoverse (with Jordan guesting)
Terminal Velocity
LTE3
James' upcoming acoustic solo album
Mike Mangini's upcoming solo album
DT15
Jordan generously shared an update on where Dream Theater currently is with their new album as well as his personal feelings toward the record at this time.
“I was in the studio, I was finishing up my keyboard tracks, now I’ve basically done all my keyboard tracks, and, first of all, I’m so happy with them. Because I feel like, you know, I gotta say, I laid down what I think, sonically speaking at least, are the best keyboard tracks of any Dream Theater album. And I say that for, I guess there are different factors that have influenced me and the reason that I’m expressing that. One is we learn so much from every album that we do and we take those lessons into serious consideration and so when we go to do the next album, and the next album there’s always something we feel we can do better.” Jordan went on to say “Everything we went for, we took the time to make it a little more special. Instead of finding the usual Dream Theater pads sound or whatever I’d be like ‘You know what? Let’s find something a little bit cooler. Let’s get something a little more sonic, you know?‘ And so we would take the time and go ‘Yes, that’s it!‘ Or like you’re looking for a drone we’d be like ‘Let’s add some movement to the drone.’ Just something.”
Jordan concluded by sharing,
“The other part I wanted to share, I said to John one day after working and reviewing one of the tracks I said, ‘John,’ we were leaving, we were walking out to the parking lot and I was saying “You know John, this is crazy,” I said “but, here we are, I’m like sixty-four years old, you’re a little bit behind me but we’re getting older and, you know, people ask me nowadays ‘do you feel yourself slowing down?’ you know like, what’s going on? And I’m like, no. I don’t.” And I said to John, “When I listen to this album, it’s like we’re twenty years old or something. What is happening? What kind of vitamins are we eating?“. I’m really proud of us. Coz everybody, not one guy, everybody across the board in this group is vital as ever. Like when you hear this album you know exactly what I’m, you’ll be like oh my god, I see what he’s saying! I just listened to it coz James is doing vocals now and I was listening to something that he just put together and kind of the final, rough, you know, it’s not mixed but it’s just a rough mix if you will, I was like holy sh*t! People are gonna freak out” I can’t wait to share this album.”
I don't want to raise my hopes too high,but this might be their new I&W and SFAM!
I don't want to raise my hopes too high,but this might be their new I&W and SFAM!
I think more realistically, this might be their new ADTOE, but with better production.
I don't want to raise my hopes too high,but this might be their new I&W and SFAM!
I think more realistically, this might be their new ADTOE, but with better production.
Dude!!! :mehlin
and one i wish they had never released (Systematic Chaos)
Also JP got 3 studio and 1 live album(s?) done in the timeframe. Very productive.
This. We're forgetting that most of the band are also working on side projects at a rate that they wouldn't have otherwise. We got:
Nick D'Virgillio's Invisible (with Jordan guesting)
Virtual Symmetry's Exoverse (with Jordan guesting)
Terminal Velocity
LTE3
James' upcoming acoustic solo album
Mike Mangini's upcoming solo album
DT15
Jordan also released a piano solo album and who knows what JM is up to
Jordan also released a piano solo album and who knows what JM is up to
Playing bass
:tupI will never understand how a bunch of grown men care so much about what other grown men in a band look like.Well, this sounds like something spoken by someone who ONLY CARES ABOUT THE MUSIC. Which is, of course, fine.
But the guys in the band do not ONLY CARE ABOUT THE MUSIC. They are professional musicians. To be successful at their profession, the actual music is only one part of it.
Another part is marketing.
Another part is, like it or not, image.
How they choose to present themselves, especially if that is anything other than their REAL look, is totally fair game to talk about, IMO.
Good point and I've brought this up before. As much as some people have very specific opinions on the the length and color of their hair, facial hair, clothing, and all the rest (which me calling out those fans obsession is also fair game), the band is somewhat bound by marketing. It's sad because I'm sure we would all like the music to be most important but their marketability would plummet if they all cut their hair, stopped dying it, and wore cargo shorts, with a wedding reception lighting rig providing a few colored lights during their performance.
So yeah, appearance matters but to the extent that some people here think it does is a little odd to me. That's all.
Hey, while we're talking fashion, JLB wore a duster like coat for the first few songs at several shows on their 2011 tour. Can we agree that he looked awesome and he should bring back the duster like coat?
See, I'm down with talking a little fashion!
Hope they'll not use stock images for the cover this time, not epic
The artwork for ADToE and D/T was minimalistic, yet powerful and I always loved how Hugh provides all those extra artpieces for the songs themselves.I kind of get the the meaning of the d/t album cover. Technology has come so far in a short period of time and is taking the human element out of society. Kind of like we are our own worst enemy " Who's out there to save us from ourselves" kind of vibe. To me the album cover is a bit morbid and has a much darker vibe than the album itself. Listening to the overall album puts me in a positive space.
Any news on song lengths? How probable is it that they will go back to writing longer songs?
Tbh the only thing I care about at the moment
The artwork for ADToE and D/T was minimalistic, yet powerful and I always loved how Hugh provides all those extra artpieces for the songs themselves.I kind of get the the meaning of the d/t album cover. Technology has come so far in a short period of time and is taking the human element out of society. Kind of like we are our own worst enemy " Who's out there to save us from ourselves" kind of vibe.
I have to admit I don't really see the hate for Hugh Syme. The only time he really messed up was around the time of DT12 with the whole clipped thing on the cover and the guitar in the booklet, as well as the kind of slapped together look of Distant Memories' main piece. The artwork for ADToE and D/T was minimalistic, yet powerful and I always loved how Hugh provides all those extra artpieces for the songs themselves. Black Clouds is also easily my favourite DT album art, it's got that proggy collage thing going on but does it with more polish than on Awake and Images. I also don't think there's anything particularly wrong with him using stock images to compose the picture. It's been part of his signature stye and it's not like it's easy to make it look like it does (not to mention, that's sort of what stock images are for). With stuff like This Godless Endeavor, Moving Pictures and Parallels, he manages to nail the atmosphere of the album in question.I love most of what Hugh’s done for Rush, and to a lesser degree for some other bands. In fact, that’s one of the things I enjoyed doing myself - creating images that are *realistically* photo-composited (the elements fit in well enough so that they look like they should be there - not just tossed in there using a copy and paste tool). I did the same thing for MP’s bass drum heads for the Albino Monster, as well as the Black Clouds and Silver Anniversary poster/shirt image. So I don’t have a problem with the general style that Hugh’s become known for.
The main issue with " two stock images " - [ and they were literally copied and pasted. There's barely any difference. He hasn't altered them in any way. It's copy..paste. ]
is that Hugh would have gotten paid for that - and it's incredibly lazy. If he did it free as a favour to the band i'd have no problem with it.
I wonder how Hugh feels knowing he CHARGED to go COPY - PASTE.
The skull and the robot hand ?
They were taken off the internet AS IS.
*snip*
*snip*
I have the Chaos in Motion tour book on display in my garage/music room. I had no idea that you designed that, which is super cool! Great job Scotty!: :coolioThanks for the compliment! I enjoyed putting it together as well as the tourbooks for the 20th Anniversary and Black Clouds tours. And guess who I modeled my tourbooks after? Yup - Hugh Syme's tourbooks for Rush. ;)
The stuff with Black Clouds is valid, although I will still say it's preferrable to Awake, which looks slapped together even more haphazardly. I guess I'm a bit forgiving because it's not like Dream Theater have had consistently amazing artwork before Hugh either. In my opinion, they hit a good run from Scenes onwards but Falling Into Infinity is sorta nonsensical and uninspiring, A Change of Seasons is okay but the ones before are pretty amateurish, though that could arguably be part of their charm.Funny that you prefer BCaSL over Awake - I'm quite the opposite. To me, the elements in Awake all seem to fit, although I'll grant you the mirror floating in the air is a bit weird. I still rank it as one of my favorite DT covers. For IaW though, I would love to see that one redone properly. For me, I don't like the flooring, the bed and a few other elements which are not photorealistic - I'm fine with the rest of the image. Aside from not smoothing out the sand/snow better, I've got no problem with the ACoS cover. Not a big fan of FII although I have nothing to nit-pick about it other than the fact that it's awfully plain, IMO and of course lacking the DT logo. Wish the band would have selected the image idea that ultimately was used for Pink Floyd's Echoes compilation. I actually like cover for OiaL - thought it was pretty clever the way that was done, and I had fun mimicking it when I did the art for the 5 Years in a LIVEtime bootleg. Also - forgot that Hugh did the art for Chaos in Motion, which I think turned out great, although I discovered that he did some cheating by quickly stretching the rusty metal at the bottom of the image instead of doing some proper retouching to extend the metal. Yeah, no one else would probably notice that, but it still comes off as sloppy to me.
I don't think there's much wrong with ADToE or D/T, though I will agree that the placement of the majesty symbol looks a bit like an afterthought on the latter. I think a lot of your criticisms are fair, it's just when I see criticism that boils down to the whole principle of "stock images = bad" thing. If a good cover can be placed out of a simple combination of images, then I don't see why not. Pop art has been in existence for decades using recycled pieces and with the accessibility of those images nowadays, taking shortcuts seems like the logical option when it provides you with what you want.You don't think the way he slapped the majesty symbol on the tail of the airplane didn't look like an afterthought?
You don't think the way he slapped the majesty symbol on the tail of the airplane didn't look like an afterthought?
As for your comment about using stock images, I see your point. And certainly, for use in the commercial world where an image will quickly be forgotten about in a matter of months or maybe even weeks, that's fine. But when you're talking about a piece of art that is going to last for a long time, is going to be associated with the band's identity and their work, and is viewed by diehard fans the same way some people view paintings, cut and pasting stock images is not good enough. I do realize that there are occasions where going with stock imagery might be a necessary evil to create the desired image (such as the robot hand or unicycling clown). But at the very least, some heavy modification would at least make the image more unique.
I mean... let's be honest, when is the majesty symbol any less of an afterthought than on ADToE? On Awake it's literally just a weird bulge in the ground, on FII it's kind of just slapped on outside of the image, it floats oddly to the right on SfaM, it's thrown into the eye on Train of Thought in what looks like an obligatory inclusion (even if overall it's among the best DT art along with Scenes, Six Degrees and TA imo)... if anything, ADToE is one of the better examples of the logo being properly integrated into the piece.Well, I'll definitely give you that the majesty symbol was an afterthought on ToT and FII - that's always bugged me about both. For ToT, they could've easily creating some sort of sign with it on there, like what they ended up doing for SC. FII, I dunno - but then again, as I said, I'm not a fan of that artwork anyway. But I'm sure Storm could've come up with something more creative if the guys would've pushed him a bit. But the impression I get is they generally accept what they receive, believing the artist is the professional and so they should trust them. Anyway, I actually like the way it was added for both Awake and SFaM - in both situations, it fits better than what is on BCaSL, IMO.
As for the stock images thing, I do understand where you're coming from, but I feel like this is more about the idea than the method, given that ADToE and BCaSL I think have a pretty unique look and concept in their weird surreal nature, them being made up of stock images not really changing that. Even if the concept of D/T was hand drawn, I suspect people would still be pointing out the fact that it's kind of tropey. I also think that Hugh's collage look is sort of part of the prog look, in a way. It has its own quirky touch to it, though that's mainly just my gut feeling on that.But that goes back to the execution of his art - not the design themselves. I don't have a problem with the ideas, but the way they were put together. And there are cases where he shot images himself instead of just resorting to stock images. The grass for 8v is something he shot himself. And certainly, he used to do the same thing with Rush album art - so why couldn't he do it now - at least for the cover images?
With Awake, I will grant that the concept and composition of the image is very striking but if you look at things like the mirror having no shadows, the spider web not being properly connected, the saturation inside the mirror being way overboard, the bronzeish sheen that makes it look like some sprite out of a 90s RPG, the way the two guys in the image don't have their direction matched etc.Oh I know that Awake isn't perfect - the spider web and the aforementioned floating mirror for instance. Not sure I follow what you're saying about the bolded part though. Are you referring to the statue and the bald guy in the mirror? If so, I never got the impression that the guy was supposed to be a reflection of the statue (which has hair and a beard...and is a statue). :P
Seems like a long time to sit on an album unless they have something planned.I think it's already been talked about, but given the pandemic, I think that throws everything out the window. Certainly there are a lot of bands that may have already written and recorded an album and are sitting on it until they can finally tour in support of it. So I wouldn't be surprised if the guys prefer to hold off until then, either. Then again, it could be that they're taking more time in working on it because there isn't a big push right now to have it done by a specific time because they probably don't have a tour booked and ready to go because of the uncertainty of when things will be "normal" enough to safely have live shows again.
While it doesn’t really bother me, I know a lot of people took issue with Hugh using the unicycle guy from stock imagery on the ADToE cover, especially since the same basic image was used on another band's album cover a few years earlier. However, I do get why he used the stock image in this case, since trying to find a unicycling clown to do a photoshoot with would probably be cost prohibitive.
:rollinWhile it doesn’t really bother me, I know a lot of people took issue with Hugh using the unicycle guy from stock imagery on the ADToE cover, especially since the same basic image was used on another band's album cover a few years earlier. However, I do get why he used the stock image in this case, since trying to find a unicycling clown to do a photoshoot with would probably be cost prohibitive.I say this in total jest, but would they really have needed to book a photoshoot with an actual clown to get that shot? It's not like it was a famous clown. They could have just dressed up someone who was most likely to balance on a unicycle for a couple seconds. Heck, if being a clown was that important, they could have asked Derek.
https://youtu.be/bjZugHrDQic
Haven't had the time to finish the interview, but Jordan mentions right at the beginning that October is the expected month of release. He says they don't have a date yet though.
I would be game with them going with a different artist again for a change. The artwork for TA is one of the best things about it and is much better than a lot of DT's other album cover art, IMO. That cover you posted is a little too synthetic (CGI) but if it could be a bit more photorealistic, I would be down with something like that. Or art from Travis Smith, altho his style is completely different from anything DT's done before. Then again, they did do SDoIT, so...
Oh I know that Awake isn't perfect - the spider web and the aforementioned floating mirror for instance. Not sure I follow what you're saying about the bolded part though. Are you referring to the statue and the bald guy in the mirror? If so, I never got the impression that the guy was supposed to be a reflection of the statue (which has hair and a beard...and is a statue). :P
But that goes back to the execution of his art - not the design themselves. I don't have a problem with the ideas, but the way they were put together. And there are cases where he shot images himself instead of just resorting to stock images. The grass for 8v is something he shot himself. And certainly, he used to do the same thing with Rush album art - so why couldn't he do it now - at least for the cover images?
The guy that did The Astonishing was already fine for me, they could have kept him....
Did the band ever said why they went with a different artist for The Astonishing? I'd be interested to know what prompted this decision since they've been working with Hugh Syme for years and went back to work with him right after. It's a bit unfortunate because Jie Ma has some really cool work that fits with the sort of realistic surreal style that the band is going for. It would have been nice to see what they could have done for a regular album.
Also, just throwing this out there, I'm available if they're looking for a new artist... :P
Nope. Just way too cluttered for my liking. I like really simple but striking artwork like Mastodon's The Hunter or Metallica's St Anger.
As soon as DT15 is mastered - they could release a single digitally and then the digital version of the album like a month later.
Then they could release the physical copies in September as planned.
It does seem a bit odd just sitting on an album for literally Half A Year
It does seem a bit odd just sitting on an album for literally Half A Year
Worth noting that the cover I posted is actually painted, not CGI.Wow! Really? Could've sworn that it was CGI. That said, I don't have a problem with CGI if it's done in such a way as to look organic. As an example, the CGI used in the Lord of the Rings movies was very well done. If a cover had that kind of quality CGI (not speaking of the content), I'd be totally down with that. But that Helloween, while obviously an organic painting doesn't do anything for me either. I guess if it were to be a painting, I'd like something along the lines of Rush's Grace Under Pressure (my favorite cover of theirs) or even the original Vapor Trails.
In large part I think this is a product of convenience. Nowadays, stock images will be more widely accessible and easier to use for what he'd want to achieve wheras for the bulk of Rush's covers (remember only 3 Rush albums are in this century and only 1 is in the 2010s), they weren't even in an era where browsing through millions of stock images through the internet was even possible and therefore necessitated that more bespoke approach. I suspect if the tools had been there at the time, they would've been more in use. As for any more modern ones that don't rely on stock images, we can kinda take the simple explanation with this one and say that he didn't use stock images in those cases because he couldn't find ones relevant enough to justify using them, which I can easily see being the case with something like Rush's Clockwork Angels given its very unique aesthetic. I can also see it being the case for Octavarium, as he probably had a very specific look in mind and whatever stock image hosts were out there (I'm sure they weren't as ubiquitous in 2005 as they are now), nothing really cut it.
Honestly, I probably agree that it'd be preferable for him to go that more bespoke approach for each album but I can understand the reasoning for not going that route. It's why I don't think Hugh is the best artist for DT because he strikes me as an artist who sort of takes the path of least resistance that, to get a more substantial piece out of him, you would have to be particular in your specification. John Petrucci doesn't strike me as a particularly confrontational or pushy person so that more relaxed character might not be getting the best out of Syme in this environment. That's just speculation, though. Maybe they went through numerous iterations of that skull and hand piece that we don't know about, but I kind of doubt it.
Did the band ever said why they went with a different artist for The Astonishing? I'd be interested to know what prompted this decision since they've been working with Hugh Syme for years and went back to work with him right after.If I'm not mistaken, actually Hugh passed on doing the art for TA when JP explained what he wanted, because it was really beyond Hugh's element. But they've always been happy with Hugh's art and packaging, which is why they went back to him for d/t.
I like really simple but striking artwork like Mastodon's The Hunter or Metallica's St Anger.The Hunter is cool, but St. Anger? No thanks! Horrible artwork. Can't believe that's what Pushead came up with after all the art he had done for Metallica previously.
If I'm not mistaken, actually Hugh passed on doing the art for TA when JP explained what he wanted, because it was really beyond Hugh's element.
I presume you mean this:
(https://www.copertinedvd.org/copertine-cd-file/D/dream_theater_-_when_dream_and_day_unite_-_back.jpg)
To be fair, it's not actually as bad at the TA credits for legibility, but yeah it's still pretty badly formatted. Speaking of the TA back cover though, I actually did my own version of the back cover to try and improve on what we got, using another one of Jie Ma's pieces:
(https://i.ibb.co/XSsLgRq/13-The-Astonishing-Back-Cover-alt-font.png)
I presume you mean this:
To be fair, it's not actually as bad at the TA credits for legibility, but yeah it's still pretty badly formatted. Speaking of the TA back cover though, I actually did my own version of the back cover to try and improve on what we got, using another one of Jie Ma's pieces:
(https://i.ibb.co/XSsLgRq/13-The-Astonishing-Back-Cover-alt-font.png)
Regarding the lyrics in TA booklet. I've come to consider the white font on light white/blue background as a throwback to the 1st WDaDU CD pressing (an import I bought way back in the day), where you can't read any of the lyrics to several of the songs for much the same reason. :lolNot sure how serious you are, but I think it's pretty safe to say that was not the intention of whoever designed the packaging for TA or who OK'd it. WDaDU was done on a shoe-string budget as the debut album for a band on a label who dropped the ball on all the promises they made to promote it. Not to mention it is something that JP would probably rather leave in the distant past. TA was quite the opposite on all fronts.
Yep. That's the one. I'm really more so referencing the lyric booklets for both records. I must have spent hours squinting my eyes trying to follow along with the story in The Killing Hand. It's also just as hard to read on The Ones Who Help Set the Sun & Only A Matter of Time.
BTW, it's cool the way you managed to encorporate Heaven's Cove (I think?) into your own creation there. IMO It ties the artwork more specifically to something in the story.
I would've like that used with the Original Cloud background. Would've made it look more....Uniform. But I see why he used that as the back cover, due to Consistency with the front cover.
I sorta wonder if there was a private falling out due to the packaging really not doing his art justice. I know I'd be pissed if I made this:
(https://www.this-is-cool.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/the-digital-art-of-jie-ma.jpg)
Not only did it not get into the booklet...
Did the band ever said why they went with a different artist for The Astonishing? I'd be interested to know what prompted this decision since they've been working with Hugh Syme for years and went back to work with him right after.If I'm not mistaken, actually Hugh passed on doing the art for TA when JP explained what he wanted, because it was really beyond Hugh's element. But they've always been happy with Hugh's art and packaging, which is why they went back to him for d/t.
QuoteIf I'm not mistaken, actually Hugh passed on doing the art for TA when JP explained what he wanted, because it was really beyond Hugh's element.
He couldn't google " Futuristic City with orbiting spheres Stock images " ? ;D
Not sure how serious you are, but I think it's pretty safe to say that was not the intention of whoever designed the packaging for TA or who OK'd it. WDaDU was done on a shoe-string budget as the debut album for a band on a label who dropped the ball on all the promises they made to promote it. Not to mention it is something that JP would probably rather leave in the distant past. TA was quite the opposite on all fronts.
I do hope we get at least something by early May though, like an announcement, a snippet, or even a more concrete hint at what the album is or what it contains.
Did the band ever said why they went with a different artist for The Astonishing? I'd be interested to know what prompted this decision since they've been working with Hugh Syme for years and went back to work with him right after.If I'm not mistaken, actually Hugh passed on doing the art for TA when JP explained what he wanted, because it was really beyond Hugh's element. But they've always been happy with Hugh's art and packaging, which is why they went back to him for d/t.
I do hope we get at least something by early May though, like an announcement, a snippet, or even a more concrete hint at what the album is or what it contains.
Or the smile of dawn
As soon as DT15 is mastered - they could release a single digitally and then the digital version of the album like a month later.
Then they could release the physical copies in September as planned.
It does seem a bit odd just sitting on an album for literally Half A Year
As soon as DT15 is mastered - they could release a single digitally and then the digital version of the album like a month later.
Then they could release the physical copies in September as planned.
It does seem a bit odd just sitting on an album for literally Half A Year
D / T was mastered in September 2018 and was released at the end of February 2019...
D / T was mastered in September 2018 and was released at the end of February 2019...
As soon as DT15 is mastered - they could release a single digitally and then the digital version of the album like a month later.
Then they could release the physical copies in September as planned.
It does seem a bit odd just sitting on an album for literally Half A Year
D / T was mastered in September 2018 and was released at the end of February 2019...
They didn't finish recording until September 2018 so I'm not sure it was mastered then was it?
I find that once recording is DONE - mixing & mastering combined takes about another month - then another three months til release.
But i think it will seem quicker as news will trickle in and they'll be promoting it and singles / videos will happen etc etc...
I mean, that would be fantastic news, Andy killed it on the production of Terminal velocity! It might be a rumour, but the musicians tend to know what their close colleagues are up to. Why would Biff say it if it weren't true? ;D
I mean, that would be fantastic news, Andy killed it on the production of Terminal velocity! It might be a rumour, but the musicians tend to know what their close colleagues are up to. Why would Biff say it if it weren't true? ;D
Indeed, if it's a random journalist having a scoop... eh, you know how the internet goes, I'll believe it when I see it. But a musician knowing what a producer they work with is up to.... what's even the point of lying about it? if Byff said it, it must be true.
Did the band ever said why they went with a different artist for The Astonishing? I'd be interested to know what prompted this decision
Take this with a grain of salt, but it appears that Biff Byford from Saxon has inadvertently spilled the beans that Andy Sneap is "busy doing Dream Theater at the moment".added in, thanks very much.
https://youtu.be/2B9zussZbwQ?t=2202 (cued up soundbyte from his appearance on Robb Flynn's podcast)
The background story being that Andy has produced the last three Saxon albums, but is hence currently unavailable to work on Biff's project with his son.
Hmm... I'd be careful about using the term "confirmed" given that he's a non official source. I do think it's likely that he's correct given that he's in the industry and works with Sneap but at the same time, there's the possibility that he could've misspoke, because it was a very off the cuff remark.of course. (and I like to think I'm careful). Had I used "rumoured", it might not have been accurate either. It's an odd one. I am very aware of the contradictory nature. Nonetheless, I have accounted for it in the title page. Thanks for correcting me.
Well according to Setlist Scotty a couple pages back, JP actually came to Hugh with the concept, who actually declined it.
:rollinWell according to Setlist Scotty a couple pages back, JP actually came to Hugh with the concept, who actually declined it.
These two statements aren't mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that he declined because he's not the guy for original character artwork. :smiley:
I think he said the self titled was their best album. Although every artist says their new album is their best yet. What are they gonna say: “This new album is alright, not our best, but it’s passable” As long as they don’t start doing the MP: “It’s Pull Me Under, ACOS, Octavarium, Learning To Live and The Glass Prison on one album” or “Metallica meets Yes”, I’m good with hype
I think he said the self titled was their best album. Although every artist says their new album is their best yet. What are they gonna say: “This new album is alright, not our best, but it’s passable” As long as they don’t start doing the MP: “It’s Pull Me Under, ACOS, Octavarium, Learning To Live and The Glass Prison on one album” or “Metallica meets Yes”, I’m good with hype
Nope, I think that was JP who hyped up the self titled like that. When Jordan Rudess says that he's never said a previous album is one of their best within its promo cycle, he's actually telling the truth. It'd make sense that he's this proud, given that apparently he's put much more thought into tailoring the individual keyboard sounds this time around.
What it is that they have come up with now?What??
As long as they don’t start doing the MP: “It’s Pull Me Under, ACOS, Octavarium, Learning To Live and The Glass Prison on one album” or “Metallica meets Yes”, I’m good with hype
I think he said the self titled was their best album.
As long as they don’t start doing the MP: “It’s Pull Me Under, ACOS, Octavarium, Learning To Live and The Glass Prison on one album” or “Metallica meets Yes”, I’m good with hype
Oh, man, I remember that comment for BC&SL.
??? That doesn't sound like an accurate description at all to me.As long as they don’t start doing the MP: “It’s Pull Me Under, ACOS, Octavarium, Learning To Live and The Glass Prison on one album” or “Metallica meets Yes”, I’m good with hype
Oh, man, I remember that comment for BC&SL.
The more accurate description for BC&SL would be the Train of Thought and Octavarium albums mixed into one, with their newfound ability to craft 00s mainstream rock choruses.
??? That doesn't sound like an accurate description at all to me.As long as they don’t start doing the MP: “It’s Pull Me Under, ACOS, Octavarium, Learning To Live and The Glass Prison on one album” or “Metallica meets Yes”, I’m good with hype
Oh, man, I remember that comment for BC&SL.
The more accurate description for BC&SL would be the Train of Thought and Octavarium albums mixed into one, with their newfound ability to craft 00s mainstream rock choruses.
This doesn't exactly help with credibility. It's a good album, but their best? Not by a long shot.
It's more accurate than what MP said. You have the band bringing the heaviness of ToT, the songwriting style of Systematic Chaos, but also bringing back the light, airy, and ambient moments, and proggy stuff in the last two songs and also the Beautiful Agony section of ANTR.
In some of the videos from the studio sessions of DT12, John says something like this: "I feel this is our strongest work to date". I am almost sure that's what he said about the self titled. And I don't agree with the statement, DT12 is not one of my favorites.
But I'm really excited about DT15 already, given the fact that Jordan is quite excited too and JP is kinda of secretive about it. It leaves me thinking why all the discretion...
Besides, when was the last time you saw an artist say, "Yeah, well, we've done better before but this album should be OK, I guess."
Besides, when was the last time you saw an artist say, "Yeah, well, we've done better before but this album should be OK, I guess."
Actually I'd love an artist to be so confident in the new material to purposedly say this, and then have the fans floored by an absolutely fantastic album.
No label however would stand for this "prank", gotta sell.
They also have their own studio now, so they don't have the clock ticking over their heads adding pressure to get things done.
In regards to “the best album ever” discussion... anyone who’s composed music on here will agree that when you create a new track you often feel it’s the best piece of work you’ve done, until the novelty wears off and you have a perspective. So when bands say a new album is their best work I genuinely believe they think that at the time.. mostly due to the adrenaline and excitement of the new idea. I think of it like that as opposed to them overhyping or trying to trick the listener
I’m most excited about JR’s new sounds. There’s so many times where he’ll have a cool sound, and you’ll never hear it again. Watch, the first sound we hear on the record is that “snarling pig” sound he’s used forever.
Some of my favorite JR patches he’s used recently are: The chorus of TCOT, the keyboard in the beginning of AWE, the solo in Beneath the Surface and the mellotron in The Astonishing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EArK6g_cALcThat was a great interview! Thanks for the link. :tup
JP on DT15 -> 19:21
yes, really a good one IMHO. Nothing new to add to the timeline though, so I didn't include it yet. (or indeed there is and I may have missed some details)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EArK6g_cALcThat was a great interview! Thanks for the link. :tup
JP on DT15 -> 19:21
I didn't know that they had just wrapped up the recordings, though. That means JLB is done with the vocals, and now they're doing the mixing?
yes, James finished recording about three weeks ago already. (and I'm sure the interview was done around that time already and only posted recently.)I didn't know that they had just wrapped up the recordings, though. That means JLB is done with the vocals, and now they're doing the mixing?
Dunno about mixing but I definitively remember a pic of James on Instagram happy about having concluded his vocals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EArK6g_cALc
JP on DT15 -> 19:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_ilvXOH84
Haven't watched it yet,but it might have important info
one additional detail with the 8 string song: he consciously avoided it being derivative of other 8 string bands (i.e. not just your standard slug-slug sound IIRC. Which is a relief IMHO, because that other stuff already exists.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_ilvXOH84
Haven't watched it yet,but it might have important info
I'm still listening but the 2 main things I got from this interview is:
1) He described the song with the 8 string as "Mean and with attitude"
2) He said they have the audio recording for TA, but no video.
Wow that's refreshing :lol
I love cheese
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_ilvXOH84It's weird that JP said they'll discuss "content, and titles, and PERSONNEL" as the album gets closer. Personnel? Like guests? lol what other personnel could he be talking about??
Haven't watched it yet,but it might have important info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_ilvXOH84It's weird that JP said they'll discuss "content, and titles, and PERSONNEL" as the album gets closer. Personnel? Like guests? lol what other personnel could he be talking about??
Haven't watched it yet,but it might have important info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_ilvXOH84It's weird that JP said they'll discuss "content, and titles, and PERSONNEL" as the album gets closer. Personnel? Like guests? lol what other personnel could he be talking about??
Haven't watched it yet,but it might have important info
Producer? Mixer? Technical personnel?
All current and former DT members appear on DT15. The double secret surprise.
All current and former DT members appear on DT15. The double secret surprise.
KM would never participate in something so sordid!
:rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EArK6g_cALc
JP on DT15 -> 19:21
"Energy, excitement and positivity..."
Are we getting a happy album?
Wow that's refreshing :lol
" The New Album? Same old Pub Rock Bollocks. I'd give it 8 out of 10. There's two shit songs on it ".
- Noel Gallagher about Standing on The Shoulder of Giants.
;D
Besides, when was the last time you saw an artist say, "Yeah, well, we've done better before but this album should be OK, I guess."
Wow that's refreshing :lol
" The New Album? Same old Pub Rock Bollocks. I'd give it 8 out of 10. There's two shit songs on it ".
- Noel Gallagher about Standing on The Shoulder of Giants.
;D
And he admitted their final album had two b-sides on it. I agree.
Besides, when was the last time you saw an artist say, "Yeah, well, we've done better before but this album should be OK, I guess."
That's usually what I say about later DT albums.
Also they've never done their 'St Anger' where it's that one album that literally everyone regards as the sh*t one.
I was being sarcastic. I actually don't think it's a "bad" album. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not one of those people who thinks it's just garbage. There's actually a few really good songs scattered across those two discs.
If they could have culled it down to one disc of the best material I probably would have liked it and listened to it a lot more.
I was being sarcastic. I actually don't think it's a "bad" album. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not one of those people who thinks it's just garbage. There's actually a few really good songs scattered across those two discs.
If they could have culled it down to one disc of the best material I probably would have liked it and listened to it a lot more.
Wow - you could have done this years ago. You could do it now and possibly have a different opinion about the album.
I always feel weird about doing something like this, and I cannot explain why. i guess I feel weird altering the art as it was created by the artist. I should accept it as it is. I shouldn't cut out half of Falling into Infinity because it blows, because what I then have isn't Falling into Infinity any longer.
I was being sarcastic. I actually don't think it's a "bad" album. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not one of those people who thinks it's just garbage. There's actually a few really good songs scattered across those two discs.
If they could have culled it down to one disc of the best material I probably would have liked it and listened to it a lot more.
Wow - you could have done this years ago. You could do it now and possibly have a different opinion about the album.
I always feel weird about doing something like this, and I cannot explain why. i guess I feel weird altering the art as it was created by the artist. I should accept it as it is. I shouldn't cut out half of Falling into Infinity because it blows, because what I then have isn't Falling into Infinity any longer.
I was being sarcastic. I actually don't think it's a "bad" album. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not one of those people who thinks it's just garbage. There's actually a few really good songs scattered across those two discs.
If they could have culled it down to one disc of the best material I probably would have liked it and listened to it a lot more.
Wow - you could have done this years ago. You could do it now and possibly have a different opinion about the album.
I always feel weird about doing something like this, and I cannot explain why. i guess I feel weird altering the art as it was created by the artist. I should accept it as it is. I shouldn't cut out half of Falling into Infinity because it blows, because what I then have isn't Falling into Infinity any longer.
You also shouldn't do that because FII is awesome.
Lol. Totally agree. But, in my opinion, life is far too short to sit through music you don't dig. You bought the record with your hard-earned cash, and if you want to rearrange the track listing or dump half of it into a playlist, why feel bad about it?
Dudes with rooms full of boxed toys confuse me :huh:
Lol. Totally agree. But, in my opinion, life is far too short to sit through music you don't dig. You bought the record with your hard-earned cash, and if you want to rearrange the track listing or dump half of it into a playlist, why feel bad about it?
Definitely agree with that as well. Music on an album is just structured to listen to differently than one would watch a film, or read a novel. I guess one could edit Memento to make it chronological if they enjoyed it more in that manner, but it would take much more time and effort than altering the order of songs on a CD.
I am being a bit hypocritical too as I did a little tweaking with my favorite album of all time, The Wall, and I never really thought twice about it.Dudes with rooms full of boxed toys confuse me :huh:
It is the investment. There is no emotional attachment. It doesn't matter what they are, toys, baseball cards, coins, etc...
I had a weird dream last night that DT had just released their new single and were already playing it live. In my dream, I was so busy I was waiting for later in the day to listen to it, but that never happened :lolI understand, dreams always take such a weird direction. :lol
I was being sarcastic. I actually don't think it's a "bad" album. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not one of those people who thinks it's just garbage. There's actually a few really good songs scattered across those two discs.
If they could have culled it down to one disc of the best material I probably would have liked it and listened to it a lot more.
James interview (1:11:29) talks a bit about the new album and upcoming schedule. He's also very excited about it, he is going to NY in a few weeks to do the big photoshoot and video for the first 'single'.ah so I was right apparently. Good. Good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuxETd-iFm0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuxETd-iFm0)
James interview (1:11:29) talks a bit about the new album and upcoming schedule. He's also very excited about it, he is going to NY in a few weeks to do the big photoshoot and video for the first 'single'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuxETd-iFm0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuxETd-iFm0)
Holy hell he's looking really grey.And he looks cool, he should embrace it. :tup
Holy hell he's looking really grey.
should James leave his hair white/gray?
i think that he could rock those colors
and yes, that "ventablack" hair of previous years is a little off-putting
Speaking of hair, I've noticed that JR has grown his out during the pandemic. I wonder if he will keep it that way, or shave his head as before.
should James leave his hair white/gray?
i think that he could rock those colors
and yes, that "ventablack" hair of previous years is a little off-putting
I was being sarcastic. I actually don't think it's a "bad" album. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not one of those people who thinks it's just garbage. There's actually a few really good songs scattered across those two discs.
If they could have culled it down to one disc of the best material I probably would have liked it and listened to it a lot more.
Wow - you could have done this years ago. You could do it now and possibly have a different opinion about the album.
Holy hell he's looking really grey.
Yep, and looks better than the dyed black by far. It has more of a prog rock jedi master vibe. :coolioHoly hell he's looking really grey.
Breaking news: 57 year old man has grey hair ;)
I was being sarcastic. I actually don't think it's a "bad" album. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not one of those people who thinks it's just garbage. There's actually a few really good songs scattered across those two discs.
If they could have culled it down to one disc of the best material I probably would have liked it and listened to it a lot more.
Wow - you could have done this years ago. You could do it now and possibly have a different opinion about the album.
See, to me, The Astonishing doesn't just need to be trimmed down to the better songs, those songs also need to be extended to make them DT awesome. The Chosen is a fantastic song, but it's crying out for a beautiful guitar solo, and several of the tracks need manic extended instrumentals to make them work. So even if I cut out half the songs, I'd double the length of the others.
That's what I was thinking.I was being sarcastic. I actually don't think it's a "bad" album. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not one of those people who thinks it's just garbage. There's actually a few really good songs scattered across those two discs.
If they could have culled it down to one disc of the best material I probably would have liked it and listened to it a lot more.
Wow - you could have done this years ago. You could do it now and possibly have a different opinion about the album.
See, to me, The Astonishing doesn't just need to be trimmed down to the better songs, those songs also need to be extended to make them DT awesome. The Chosen is a fantastic song, but it's crying out for a beautiful guitar solo, and several of the tracks need manic extended instrumentals to make them work. So even if I cut out half the songs, I'd double the length of the others.
I have no idea what version of Chosen you're listening to, but it does have an amazing beautiful guitar solo. That guitar solo is one reason I love Chosen.
Speaking of hair, I've noticed that JR has grown his out during the pandemic. I wonder if he will keep it that way, or shave his head as before.Jordan posted a video in FB yesterday. He shaved his head. I like James grey, but he will need to cut his hair. The white for 4 inches, followed by black isn't a good look to me.
I was being sarcastic. I actually don't think it's a "bad" album. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm not one of those people who thinks it's just garbage. There's actually a few really good songs scattered across those two discs.
If they could have culled it down to one disc of the best material I probably would have liked it and listened to it a lot more.
Wow - you could have done this years ago. You could do it now and possibly have a different opinion about the album.
What's the point of listening to 1/3 of a concept album?
I kind of look at it the way I look at Krispy Kreme donuts vs donuts from a traditional donut shop. Krispy Kreme donuts are technically donuts right? But we all know they're kind of their own thing. Completely different from donuts that are made at a traditional donut shop.
A Dream Theater album is like your favorite item(s) at Taco Bell, plus a couple of tacos and a drink.
The Astonishing is all of the Taco Bell ingredients piled high onto a giant platter, with no drink, no utensils, and no napkins.
So here's my take on TA. I don't think DT made it thinking any DT fans would often casually listen to it just like any old DT album. I love the album, but I hardly listen to it unless I'm in the mood and have the time to take that journey. I kind of look at it the way I look at Krispy Kreme donuts vs donuts from a traditional donut shop. Krispy Kreme donuts are technically donuts right? But we all know they're kind of their own thing. Completely different from donuts that are made at a traditional donut shop. I might be in the mood for donuts (a DT album) one morning, but that doesn't mean I'm in the mood for Krispy Kreme donuts (TA). Gotta be in the right mood for those. Sometimes I'm totally in the mood for Krispy Kreme (TA) and a traditional donut (more typical DT album) isn't going to give me what I'm craving from a KK (TA). The problem with the fans is, they want The Astonishing to be a traditional donut so bad but it's not. It's a Krispy Kreme donut.
It's unfair to talk about it in the same way we'd talk about a normal DT album. It's not. It wasn't supposed to be. It's never going to be. In that way, it's unfair to compare it to the others. Apples to oranges. It's a fuckin rock opera for crying out loud. :lol
So here's my take on TA. I don't think DT made it thinking any DT fans would often casually listen to it just like any old DT album. I love the album, but I hardly listen to it unless I'm in the mood and have the time to take that journey. I kind of look at it the way I look at Krispy Kreme donuts vs donuts from a traditional donut shop. Krispy Kreme donuts are technically donuts right? But we all know they're kind of their own thing. Completely different from donuts that are made at a traditional donut shop. I might be in the mood for donuts (a DT album) one morning, but that doesn't mean I'm in the mood for Krispy Kreme donuts (TA). Gotta be in the right mood for those. Sometimes I'm totally in the mood for Krispy Kreme (TA) and a traditional donut (more typical DT album) isn't going to give me what I'm craving from a KK (TA). The problem with the fans is, they want The Astonishing to be a traditional donut so bad but it's not. It's a Krispy Kreme donut.
It's unfair to talk about it in the same way we'd talk about a normal DT album. It's not. It wasn't supposed to be. It's never going to be. In that way, it's unfair to compare it to the others. Apples to oranges. It's a fuckin rock opera for crying out loud. :lol
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KK donuts = :tdwn
KK donuts = :tdwn
You are incorrect. :)
Hot N Ready, baby. Nothing like it.KK donuts = :tdwn
You are incorrect. :)
I'm just waiting for the announcement that DT15 will be a double concept album about donuts. They'll make you pick sides, DD or KK, and your order will ship with discount cupons and free coffee.
Dunkin’ Donuts are not good, they have a weird chemically taste to them.
Speaking of hair, I've noticed that JR has grown his out during the pandemic. I wonder if he will keep it that way, or shave his head as before.
I'm just waiting for the announcement that DT15 will be a double concept album about donuts. They'll make you pick sides, DD or KK, and your order will ship with discount cupons and free coffee.
I'm just waiting for the announcement that DT15 will be a double concept album about donuts. They'll make you pick sides, DD or KK, and your order will ship with discount cupons and free coffee.
I'm still waiting for the "Smell My Beard" 20-minute epic. :lol
:lolSpeaking of hair, I've noticed that JR has grown his out during the pandemic. I wonder if he will keep it that way, or shave his head as before.
Nope! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5g3i26gC6I)
Speaking of hair, I've noticed that JR has grown his out during the pandemic. I wonder if he will keep it that way, or shave his head as before.
Nope! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5g3i26gC6I)
So his comment about "tour head" - are we to read anything into that? :metal
So his comment about "tour head" - are we to read anything into that? :metal
He's doing a small solo tour in the US.
John Petrucci interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b_ilvXOH84
James LaBrie interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuxETd-iFm0
Mike Mangini interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F89vsAztPA
Dream Theater always came across as a band where their passion for playing was highly correlated with their passion for creating music.And I agree but I am referring to the stylistic side of the album. Another collection of energetic and heavy songs with a new sound make up is nice but I'd like for once to see the band try to make something special. Again we'll wait and see!
To be fair, they're kind of held back from revealing anything major about the album at the moment. One thing I'm wondering is if Six Degrees had any pre-conceived notion about what kind of album it was going to be, as I'm pretty sure it being a double album wasn't intentional. If there wasn't, then there's nothing stopping this album from being ambitious in a similar capacity (with admittedly the double album part not being particularly likely).
Dream Theater always came across as a band where their passion for playing was highly correlated with their passion for creating music.And I agree but I am referring to the stylistic side of the album. Another collection of energetic and heavy songs with a new sound make up is nice but I'd like for once to see the band try to make something special. Again we'll wait and see!
Indeed the plan for Six Degrees was not that one from the beginning, they even wanted to do a completely different album - a "world" album, drawing inspiration from various cultures and nations and then use instruments of that nation (or something to that effect). Then they went to see Pantera and they changed their minds, getting inspired for The Glass Prison. Also, either Steve Vai or Joe Satriani, can't remember who, used that "world music" idea for their album at the same time, so they definitively scrapped it.
Ah yes, Steve Vai came up with that idea.
I feel Mangini is in a place in the band where he isn't a 100% happy. But that's me and of course that's debatable, but since The Astonishing, he has this way of talking about his position in the band that is very defensive. I felt it really strong in this interview. Like "I do this and that for the band, don't treat me like I do nothing more than that". I feel bad for him! He's just a great guy.
At one point he mentions that to sum up the entire record that they just went for it and pretended they were 19 years old and played their instruments and have fun..Wasn't that the same thought more or less behind the last one? Why I get the feeling that the playing part of the band is now more important than the whole picture of the record?
I feel Mangini is in a place in the band where he isn't a 100% happy. But that's me and of course that's debatable, but since The Astonishing, he has this way of talking about his position in the band that is very defensive. I felt it really strong in this interview. Like "I do this and that for the band, don't treat me like I do nothing more than that". I feel bad for him! He's just a great guy.
I feel Mangini is in a place in the band where he isn't a 100% happy. But that's me and of course that's debatable, but since The Astonishing, he has this way of talking about his position in the band that is very defensive. I felt it really strong in this interview. Like "I do this and that for the band, don't treat me like I do nothing more than that". I feel bad for him! He's just a great guy.
Well he has to deal with the fans that want MP to return and every album he does, these people will judge his Drumming. And these people are not quiet or silent about it.
His defensiveness in interviews, I think, is due to these people constantly bashing.
I feel Mangini is in a place in the band where he isn't a 100% happy. But that's me and of course that's debatable, but since The Astonishing, he has this way of talking about his position in the band that is very defensive. I felt it really strong in this interview. Like "I do this and that for the band, don't treat me like I do nothing more than that". I feel bad for him! He's just a great guy.
Well he has to deal with the fans that want MP to return and every album he does, these people will judge his Drumming. And these people are not quiet or silent about it.
His defensiveness in interviews, I think, is due to these people constantly bashing.
Also, his whole career he’s been a hired gun (he never formed a band) so it’s probably hard to escape that mindset.
When in the most possible distant future DT will be done, and assuming this is their final line-up, I would sooo like to ask Mangini if, fans speculations aside, he always felt secure in his position in DT or if at a point he ever feared that they would boot him to make Portnoy come back.
I mean, there's no way he's gonna answer sincerely in an interview now, so that's a question to be saved for the end of their carrer, but it would be a nice curiosity to satisfy....
I personally think, he's found his place in the band now, and is even getting more comfortable with his ideas. Room 137 was a great example of that. And his knowledge of Rhythm shows in his vocal melodies and how they're used in the song.
Coming from that Session only mindset into a Band mindset, is one that does take time to get used to, and The Astonishing didn't help him in that aspect, I bet that album felt more like a hired gun type session, than a band session. Could be why the band decided to just jam and write whatever they come up with, and stayed in the barn. That way, they can have more of that band mindset.
Which I feel is what they tried their best to do with the upcoming album. And I really truly feel we are getting something pretty amazing, if D/T is anything to go by with the band mindset.
That is indeed a great question,and one i am also curious to know the answer.
But,there is a chance that by the time DT are done,in the most possible distant future as you said,MP is back again.
Even though no one of us knows exactly how much possible that is by today's standards,given that we do not know DT members personally,
and they would not let anyone else know their thoughts,even if they do have at the back of their minds to reconnect with MP.
Well, he was involved in the songwriting and composing for Dream Theater. He would have been involved on the next album as well, if that album hadn't been The Astonishing.Indeed he was but only as to add his drumming under the eye of JP of course. Check out in this interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmw9mtSjB0A) at 4.06 his answer about his involvement up at this point in the band and how he mentions he learned that he should earn the right and respect to actually being involved -it's kinda shocking to be honest. On the other hand TA was a personal vision of JP that because of it's nature he had to work with JR being the master composer that he is and to actually present it as he wanted.
Well, he was involved in the songwriting and composing for Dream Theater. He would have been involved on the next album as well, if that album hadn't been The Astonishing.Indeed he was but only as to add his drumming under the eye of JP of course. Check out in this interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmw9mtSjB0A) at 4.06 his answer about his involvement up at this point in the band and how he mentions he learned that he should earn the right and respect to actually being involved -it's kinda shocking to be honest. On the other hand TA was a personal vision of JP that because of it's nature he had to work with JR being the master composer that he is and to actually present it as he wanted.
That's a part of that Band mindset. And how you have to find your place within the band. Even though you audition, you won't fully know the operations of the band. ADTOE is just Mangini dipping his toes in the water, DT is him getting in knee deep, then he had to step aside as they began doing maintenance and upgrading the pool, and then finally got to immerse himself in the water with D/T. Now, I think he's more than capable of taking the dive in the deep end. I hope to see this in DT15Exactly that's a good way to put it. But it's a little bit strange a musician with the skills and prestige of MM that he actually had to boot-camp for 3 albums in order to just let him contribute.
That's a part of that Band mindset. And how you have to find your place within the band. Even though you audition, you won't fully know the operations of the band. ADTOE is just Mangini dipping his toes in the water, DT is him getting in knee deep, then he had to step aside as they began doing maintenance and upgrading the pool, and then finally got to immerse himself in the water with D/T. Now, I think he's more than capable of taking the dive in the deep end. I hope to see this in DT15Exactly that's a good way to put it. But it's a little bit strange a musician with the skills and prestige of MM that he actually had to boot-camp for 3 albums in order to just let him contribute.
That's a part of that Band mindset. And how you have to find your place within the band. Even though you audition, you won't fully know the operations of the band. ADTOE is just Mangini dipping his toes in the water, DT is him getting in knee deep, then he had to step aside as they began doing maintenance and upgrading the pool, and then finally got to immerse himself in the water with D/T. Now, I think he's more than capable of taking the dive in the deep end. I hope to see this in DT15Exactly that's a good way to put it. But it's a little bit strange a musician with the skills and prestige of MM that he actually had to boot-camp for 3 albums in order to just let him contribute.
He has the skills and prestige, but not the experience of being in a band as a full member. This is where he is learning and mentioned In that interview, how he had to earn that respect because he is new to the operations of how the band actually works behind the scenes, and all that is involved. This includes the process that goes with making albums. It's just a simple respect given to an already established band before making demands.
That's a part of that Band mindset. And how you have to find your place within the band. Even though you audition, you won't fully know the operations of the band. ADTOE is just Mangini dipping his toes in the water, DT is him getting in knee deep, then he had to step aside as they began doing maintenance and upgrading the pool, and then finally got to immerse himself in the water with D/T. Now, I think he's more than capable of taking the dive in the deep end. I hope to see this in DT15Exactly that's a good way to put it. But it's a little bit strange a musician with the skills and prestige of MM that he actually had to boot-camp for 3 albums in order to just let him contribute.
He has the skills and prestige, but not the experience of being in a band as a full member. This is where he is learning and mentioned In that interview, how he had to earn that respect because he is new to the operations of how the band actually works behind the scenes, and all that is involved. This includes the process that goes with making albums. It's just a simple respect given to an already established band before making demands.
That all sounds logical, and is very well reasoned. But it is not supported by the facts we know. That might have been sort of true for ADTOE. But I would word it slightly differently because it wasn't about him "earning respect" as much as it was simply the existing band wanting to keep a very tight rein on the songwriting process at that time because it was a critical transition period for them, and they wanted to have the end product come out a very specific way.
Within the confines of how the band was writing back then, the band had opened up, and MM was contributing with DT12. Maybe not to the extent we might all have liked. But from what has been said both by MM and the rest of the band, that was simply a factor of him being new to writing with the band. It is going to be an evolution with any new member where that person contributes more and more over time as he and the band become more and more comfortable and he becomes more comfortable with the writing process. That is what happened with DT12, and what we have seen throughout his tenure. The only exception, really, is The Astonishing. And as Hef pointed out, that was a VERY unique situation where the ONLY composers were JP and Jordan, because they were doing something very specific and both the process and the end product to turn out a specific way. Yes, MM was not part of that writing process. But neither were James and JMX. That album is just the "odd" exception.
When we finally get to D/T, the "change" is really just a continuation of the evolution we already saw happening with DT12, as well as the overall change in writing/composing that the band decided on (which has also been an evolution from the process when MP was in the band).
So I really don't think it is about "earning respect" at all, or at least not to any significant degree.
Jordan Rudess interviewthe hype is real (to me)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0OFtniqr6s
Jordan Rudess interviewthe hype is real (to me)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0OFtniqr6s
At least, at this point, it's pretty evident that the next album will be the more worked and thought out by all the band members in a loooong time.
I'm really curious to watch the Myung interview... seriously, if even HE is that excited for the album, I'm totally sure that it will be impossible for this album to meet MY expectations! :lol
At least, at this point, it's pretty evident that the next album will be the more worked and thought out by all the band members in a loooong time.
I'm really curious to watch the Myung interview... seriously, if even HE is that excited for the album, I'm totally sure that it will be impossible for this album to meet MY expectations! :lol
Scanning through it, I notice that at about 1 hr 38 mins, he says that there's a synthesised cello section and a distorted violin sound. At 17 mins, he also talks about how he's taken some inspiration from JP in making his solos a bit more composed. As well as that, he mentions that his lead solo tone is a bit "smoother and more pointed". At 1 hour 23 mins, there's also the implication that there's a lot of mini moog presence on the album and what we've heard before about him being the most proud of his keyboard sounds on this album. Bits and pieces, mostly. It probably would've been nice if the video itself was timestamped
Scanning through it, I notice that at about 1 hr 38 mins, he says that there's a synthesised cello section and a distorted violin sound. At 17 mins, he also talks about how he's taken some inspiration from JP in making his solos a bit more composed. As well as that, he mentions that his lead solo tone is a bit "smoother and more pointed". At 1 hour 23 mins, there's also the implication that there's a lot of mini moog presence on the album and what we've heard before about him being the most proud of his keyboard sounds on this album. Bits and pieces, mostly. It probably would've been nice if the video itself was timestamped
I think that back in the day (LTE1 & 2, SFAM, SDOIT) he would play more composed solos, or at least they sounded that way, vs later albums that just have JR going wild with some arpeggios and scales.
Yeah, he’s been playing with JP for 23 years and JUST NOW he is realizing how JP spending time composing his solos makes most of them awesome :facepalm:.
This isn't the first time Jordan claims Petrucci pushed him to do a more melodic and structured rather than improvised solo.
We learned in an interview back in 2011 that John requested more melody from the keyboard solo in Lost not forgotten. When you listen to the section in question, you can tell Jordan heeded the advice.
This isn't the first time Jordan claims Petrucci pushed him to do a more melodic and structured rather than improvised solo.
We learned in an interview back in 2011 that John requested more melody from the keyboard solo in Lost not forgotten. When you listen to the section in question, you can tell Jordan heeded the advice.
Yeah, I was going to mention that this was his best solo since 6DOIT. Obviously, this is why. Also, Beneath the Surface and Along for the Ride have great solos that are melodic and have a “shape” to them. Also, just saying, I love most of the parts and sounds Jordan creates. Other than solos...since about 2003.
Jordan is arguably the best composer in the band, which is why it’s so disappointing that he takes a more improvisational approach to his solos. His best solos are always the ones that are mostly composed with some fast, improvised flourishes sprinkled in. Solos like Octavarium, Along For the Ride, Lost Not Forgotten, Beneath the Surface, and everything on Scenes From a Memory show how great his solos can be when he mostly ditches the improv and uses his incredible composition skills.
Back when he joined the band, I was hoping we'd hear more along the lines of that fabulous ending solo of Crossing Over (Rudess Morgenstein Project) from him once he was freed of the time constraints of LTE sessions.That's very interesting to say that, because I think I felt that too back in the day. Besides LTE that was my second real introduction to JR and what kind of a keyboard player he was..and boy was I impressed..still am! I was so hardcore that I even listened to the Kurweil 2600 demos like Over the Edge and It's a Mystery..crazy times!
I opened up a zillion Private, 1 on 1 Slots for this TH, May 13. It is a tight week as I thought it would be. I could open SAT. I will post again tomorrow about that. I definitely can't host any classes the following week either.
The week of May 23 is looking OK. I'll know in a couple of days so interested people can plan.
MM on Facebook:yes, seems likely. I'll add it when it's confirmed (by way of pictures and things)QuoteI opened up a zillion Private, 1 on 1 Slots for this TH, May 13. It is a tight week as I thought it would be. I could open SAT. I will post again tomorrow about that. I definitely can't host any classes the following week either.
The week of May 23 is looking OK. I'll know in a couple of days so interested people can plan.
Reading between the lines, DT activities (photo and video shoots) will most likely last around a week, starting around the 17th.
Is this the correct thread? Jordan just announced during his concert that DT will probably start touring sometime in Sept, Oct. (Now can't remember if he said Sept, Oct., or Oct Nov)I think the former though. :metal
Would this be the location of the new single video?I would guess so, but I'm not sure (and how can I be?)
Would this be the location of the new single video?
Would this be the location of the new single video?
If that it would be a scenery never used before by a metal band.... ::)
Would this be the location of the new single video?
If that it would be a scenery never used before by a metal band.... ::)
Is there still a scenario left unused by a metal band before?
Would this be the location of the new single video?
If that it would be a scenery never used before by a metal band.... ::)
Is there still a scenario left unused by a metal band before?
Sure..
(https://barbie.mattel.com/wcsstore/Mattel/images/barbie/2017HolidayGIFGuide/1.gif)
I mean, it's possible Winger made a video there..
Would this be the location of the new single video?
If that it would be a scenery never used before by a metal band.... ::)
Is there still a scenario left unused by a metal band before?
Sure..
(https://barbie.mattel.com/wcsstore/Mattel/images/barbie/2017HolidayGIFGuide/1.gif)
I mean, it's possible Winger made a video there..
:lol
It is not possible that a glam band did not use this obviously suitable scenario.
I’m gonna guess first single early July. Album release early October. Album will have 8 tracks and run 65-70 minutes.
They probably out that out so far so they do it with the. We album releases in succession.
I'm assuming that the Budokon 2017 release is for audio cd/digital download only. Does anyone know if there is a live dvd as part of the package too?I’m gonna guess first single early July. Album release early October. Album will have 8 tracks and run 65-70 minutes.
I’m with this. The first single will probably be out after June 25. Which is when the Live at Budokan 2017 is coming out.
I'm assuming that the Budokon 2017 release is for audio cd/digital download only. Does anyone know if there is a live dvd as part of the package too?I’m gonna guess first single early July. Album release early October. Album will have 8 tracks and run 65-70 minutes.
I’m with this. The first single will probably be out after June 25. Which is when the Live at Budokan 2017 is coming out.
They probably out that out so far so they do it with the. We album releases in succession.
.... ??? ??? ???
I hope there's not another Easter Egg hunt like they did for the last album where only computer programmers could play and everyone else was entirely left out.I'm no computer programmer, and I took part. I was able to solve a few things on my own, and it was a lot of fun. Hopefully you give it a shot next time!
I'm no computer programmer, (but a business owner) and I was lost in about the first minute.I hope there's not another Easter Egg hunt like they did for the last album where only computer programmers could play and everyone else was entirely left out.I'm no computer programmer, and I took part. I was able to solve a few things on my own, and it was a lot of fun. Hopefully you give it a shot next time!
Has DT ever recorded an album that was released fairly soon after the completion of recording ?
Exactly what I thought. So why are they taking longer these days to release albums ? Would this be the case if MP was still in the band ?
Exactly what I thought. So why are they taking longer these days to release albums ? Would this be the case if MP was still in the band ?
You have to organize the promotion, the interviews, the actual manufacturing and distribution, and there are timeframes where the release of an album will make most commercial sense. All these details are not up to the drummer.
I'm no computer programmer, (but a business owner) and I was lost in about the first minute.I hope there's not another Easter Egg hunt like they did for the last album where only computer programmers could play and everyone else was entirely left out.I'm no computer programmer, and I took part. I was able to solve a few things on my own, and it was a lot of fun. Hopefully you give it a shot next time!
I was lost -- and then became disinterested -- after about a week.
I was lost -- and then became disinterested -- after about a week.
Exactly - I just waited for everyone else to work it out and felt left out.
If you were in a band why would you deliberately alienate a majority of your fanbase ?
If you were in a band why would you deliberately alienate a majority of your fanbase ?I don't think they deliberately alienated their fanbase. It's not like the album was exclusive to those who played. It was similar to the "Stream Of Consciousness" contest back in 2003 - something to keep fans engaged during the waiting period.
I’m sure the band didn’t have much to do with it. It was probably presented to them by a marketing team and thought it was going to be more inclusive and entertaining than it actually was.It was actually proposed by Noxon, with input by many people from the band's entourage or fan communities, including:
Then some bright spark figured out the ending right away and they had to change it all anyway :biggrin:
Ending derailment, the interview cycle seems to have concluded. (https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/327762202046587).
that was (in a nutshell of course) Mike saying that promo has apparently concluded (which, at this stage, has been preliminary interviews and photo shoots) My guess is that the video shoots are what will be coming up for the band (as he mentions, next week till mid June will be another hectic bit for the band)Ending derailment, the interview cycle seems to have concluded. (https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/327762202046587).
Care to share for those of us who don't use facebook?
that was (in a nutshell of course) Mike saying that promo has apparently concluded (which, at this stage, has been preliminary interviews and photo shoots) My guess is that the video shoots are what will be coming up for the band (as he mentions, next week till mid June will be another hectic bit for the band)Ending derailment, the interview cycle seems to have concluded. (https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/posts/327762202046587).
Care to share for those of us who don't use facebook?
The word "energy" is used a lot by the band members to describe DT15.
So I remembered a famous quote said by a fan : ENERGY, POWAHHHH!
But can't find the video.
Any help? :)
The word "energy" is used a lot by the band members to describe DT15.
So I remembered a famous quote said by a fan : ENERGY, POWAHHHH!
But can't find the video.
Any help? :)
3:18 in the Riding The Train Of Thought documentary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcHV4kYptXY
I can't wait to hear the new DT, because I'm a little scared by the mood of it...No. Precision and technical difficulty is all that matters (to me)
I have no idea what was the mood of JP and the band during the other albums recording, but his solo album and LTE3 are so joyful (I don't say they are bad, don't read me wrong), I fear the DT album to be light hearted and lacking twisted or sad emotions...
It may sound a little extreme but I try to go straight to the point, exemple : a solo like goodnight kiss needs emotion to be transferred...And lord it transferred to me :D
I think I'll have wet eyes hearing it all my life.
SadandtwistedDT team anyone ? :p
I can't wait to hear the new DT, because I'm a little scared by the mood of it...
I have no idea what was the mood of JP and the band during the other albums recording, but his solo album and LTE3 are so joyful (I don't say they are bad, don't read me wrong), I fear the DT album to be light hearted and lacking twisted or sad emotions...
It may sound a little extreme but I try to go straight to the point, exemple : a solo like goodnight kiss needs emotion to be transferred...And lord it transferred to me :D
I think I'll have wet eyes hearing it all my life.
SadandtwistedDT team anyone ? :p
I can't wait to hear the new DT, because I'm a little scared by the mood of it...No. Precision and technical difficulty is all that matters (to me)
I have no idea what was the mood of JP and the band during the other albums recording, but his solo album and LTE3 are so joyful (I don't say they are bad, don't read me wrong), I fear the DT album to be light hearted and lacking twisted or sad emotions...
It may sound a little extreme but I try to go straight to the point, exemple : a solo like goodnight kiss needs emotion to be transferred...And lord it transferred to me :D
I think I'll have wet eyes hearing it all my life.
SadandtwistedDT team anyone ? :p
Their most acclaimed album alongside SFAM, Images and Words, is light hearted and lacking twisted or sad emotions.
I can't wait to hear the new DT, because I'm a little scared by the mood of it...No. Precision and technical difficulty is all that matters (to me)
I have no idea what was the mood of JP and the band during the other albums recording, but his solo album and LTE3 are so joyful (I don't say they are bad, don't read me wrong), I fear the DT album to be light hearted and lacking twisted or sad emotions...
It may sound a little extreme but I try to go straight to the point, exemple : a solo like goodnight kiss needs emotion to be transferred...And lord it transferred to me :D
I think I'll have wet eyes hearing it all my life.
SadandtwistedDT team anyone ? :p
I hope this is suppose to be sarcasm.
I just don't want all my fave bands to release Covid19 / 2020 sucked songs / albums.
To me it would be way too obvious.
Title of the new album: "And we thought the drummer leaving was dramatic"
I just don't want all my fave bands to release Covid19 / 2020 sucked songs / albums.
To me it would be way too obvious.
The same way I thought ADTOE title to be way too obvious in their situation at that time. ::)
I just don't want all my fave bands to release Covid19 / 2020 sucked songs / albums.
To me it would be way too obvious.
The same way I thought ADTOE title to be way too obvious in their situation at that time. ::)
I thought the same back in the day. But didn't the band actually react surprised and said something like "oh we didn't even mean it that way and didn't make that connection"?
I just don't want all my fave bands to release Covid19 / 2020 sucked songs / albums.
To me it would be way too obvious.
The same way I thought ADTOE title to be way too obvious in their situation at that time. ::)
I thought the same back in the day. But didn't the band actually react surprised and said something like "oh we didn't even mean it that way and didn't make that connection"?
Yeah…wink wink, nudge nudge.
Ouch. I was expecting some bits of information earlier than that D:
Noxon has confirmed on the DT Discord that we won't be getting anything regarding DT15 until August. Not too far away now.
Yeah, a single would be understandable, but no info at all? That would be a huge bummer.
People were speculating whether we might see an announcement/single coming in June. His exact words, "We won't get anything before august. EOD.".
People were speculating whether we might see an announcement/single coming in June. His exact words, "We won't get anything before august. EOD.".
Looking at it through a different perspective, at least we won't be oversaturated with info before the album comes out, because I don't have the willpower that some people do to avoid looking at or listening to anything. :lol
Looking at it through a different perspective, at least we won't be oversaturated with info before the album comes out, because I don't have the willpower that some people do to avoid looking at or listening to anything. :lol
To pass the time you can listen to JLB participating in a tribute to the album Wish You Were Here (in "Have a Cigar")Thanks for the reminder. I've just played it and it was a pleasant listen. James did a fine job on Have a cigar. Of all the songs on the album, that one suits his voice the best. :tup
https://cleopatrarecords.bandcamp.com/album/still-wish-you-were-here-a-tribute-to-pink-floyd (https://cleopatrarecords.bandcamp.com/album/still-wish-you-were-here-a-tribute-to-pink-floyd)
:)
I hope they don't do what many other bands have done lately - release 3 singles before the album, which leaves only 4-5 songs left "unheard".
I hope they don't do what many other bands have done lately - release 3 singles before the album, which leaves only 4-5 songs left "unheard".
Seems the norm.
Lead single + video.
Then the by now mandatory lyric video.
Then a third song one week before just to remind everyone's short attention span that the album is coming.
In the social media era you have to keep up the attention, of course the dedicated fans need to be told only once and they learn by memory the release date, but you have to chase the casual ones as well.
I think timing is a big issue. I have nothing to back this up, but I think another reason to wait for August is due to the recent releases by Transatlantic and LTE. People into those bands and albums are also buying DT albums. They're still very new albums by pretty big bands within the prog and DT spheres, who don't release albums very often, so there's been a lot of noise surrounding those releases this year. I think the band and label is waiting for the excitement around those albums to wane, let most of summer to go by, many people looking to get out of their houses and enjoy the season after year-long lockdowns, allow time to "forget" about DT and related projects, and then to announce the new DT15 single in August and hype up the new album for the Fall season.
Forgot to mention in my other post, but I'm still expecting this album to come with some sort of bonus material disc. This is such a big release for the label (as was LTE3 to some degree) that they might want to offer as many special versions of the album as they can. This is also something IO does a lot too.it's DT, they fully deserve the royal treatment and they got it with D/T (and I'd be very surprised if DT15 will not get it. Besides, we know that there will be the making of documentary on the Bluray). They are IO's biggest act on the label after all (and the biggest prog band in the world too IMHO) No need to worry there.
Noxon has confirmed on the DT Discord that we won't be getting anything regarding DT15 until August. Not too far away now.
Noxon has confirmed on the DT Discord that we won't be getting anything regarding DT15 until August. Not too far away now.
Noxon sometimes writes lies ...
I think we basically just wait until the fall. I'm sure the label will release tidbits and things. It's a strong album. I like it. We really put our souls into every note; lots or a little; frantic or spacious. We'll see. Hopefully it is welcomed.
What do you want them to say? It’s too early for them to give any real details. They have an entire promotion strategy lined up over the course of the next few months. They can’t give any info about the songs or album. Like, seriously what are they suppose to say right now?Perhaps they should talk about it by humming a few of their favourite passages, or listing off some time signatures they've used. :lol
Like, seriously what are they suppose to say right now?
Does anybody know what session is Mike M working on? Would this be for his solo album?I would guess so. (can't be DT15 obviously.)
https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini
Does anybody know what session is Mike M working on? Would this be for his solo album?
https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini
Does anybody know what session is Mike M working on? Would this be for his solo album?
https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini
Taylor Larson's studio - https://www.instagram.com/p/CPi9I0An72l/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CPi9I0An72l/). I remember Mike saying he was doing or had done something for a country type thing but I don't think it's this.
Ok bruvs, mastering for DT15 has been initiated.
Ok bruvs, mastering for DT15 has been initiated.
And I thought the album had already been finished for a while. Isn't it strange that it was mixed in April but it's just being mastered now?
Exactly.Ok bruvs, mastering for DT15 has been initiated.
And I thought the album had already been finished for a while. Isn't it strange that it was mixed in April but it's just being mastered now?
I believe the final mix started being worked on in April, though rough mixes went on throughout the recording process.
Wonder who is mixing the album. I really dug Fates Warning's mix with Joe Baressi on their last album. And now that I think about it, Fates has really gotten pretty good sounding records. I can't think of any that sound bad.For all we know as of now, Andy Sneap mixed it. (he mixed Terminal Velocity too and is otherwise known for working with Saxon and Judas Priest.)
Wonder who is mixing the album. I really dug Fates Warning's mix with Joe Baressi on their last album. And now that I think about it, Fates has really gotten pretty good sounding records. I can't think of any that sound bad.For all we know as of now, Andy Sneap mixed it. (he mixed Terminal Velocity too and is otherwise known for working with Saxon and Judas Priest.)
"Hopefully it is welcomed" doesn't sound like the superlatives we were getting a couple of months ago :lol
"Hopefully it is welcomed" doesn't sound like the superlatives we were getting a couple of months ago :lol
MM has always been more humble about the album, if I recall correctly. I think it's part of his self defense system :lol Jordan was the one using some more excited words.
"There's a bass part on the new album where I play a bass part."
-JM
"There's a bass part on the new album where I play a bass part."
-JM
Or they can do like A7X did when releasing The Stage. They announced the album the day it was released.
Unless they're going to buck the trend, late September's a bit soon for a release if we're not getting info until August. Mid-October at the earliest is my guess.
Or they can do like A7X did when releasing The Stage. They announced the album the day it was released.
Plus an album can be released digitally the day it is mastered. Some bands could do that for people who never intend to buy physical and then a proper physical release later on.
Put it out on Spotify the day / week it has been mastered - and THEN do the 3 months of promo and singles / vids etc. Plus it being on Spotify is also marketing / promo in itself.
That is the absolute worst thing a band can do to build up tension for their new album. And it would actually make me pretty mad. It would completely ruin the whole period of being excited for a new release.
That is the absolute worst thing a band can do to build up tension for their new album. And it would actually make me pretty mad. It would completely ruin the whole period of being excited for a new release.
There is something to be said though for being surprised. Imagine if DT announced next Thursday, "Hey, our new album is all done and it is being released tomorrow!" That would be so awesome. Heck, artists like Radiohead and Taylor Swift have dropped albums out of nowhere this century, to large success, so it can work in a big way if you do it right AND if the album is really good. In this day and age, do we really need a 2-3 month buildup of excitement until the actual release? Nah. This isn't 1994 anymore. ;)
The Stage was a marketing nightmare because it flopped without the attention marketing a product draws. The sales that day could have been higher if they got attention from the people first.
The Stage was a marketing nightmare because it flopped without the attention marketing a product draws. The sales that day could have been higher if they got attention from the people first.
I feel like this is what people miss when people talk about The Stage. It was a neat experiment, sure. However, it didn't pay off and I doubt others will be willing to take that sort of risk for the sake of just saying "hey look, wasn't that a bit different?"
That is the absolute worst thing a band can do to build up tension for their new album. And it would actually make me pretty mad. It would completely ruin the whole period of being excited for a new release.
There is something to be said though for being surprised. Imagine if DT announced next Thursday, "Hey, our new album is all done and it is being released tomorrow!" That would be so awesome. Heck, artists like Radiohead and Taylor Swift have dropped albums out of nowhere this century, to large success, so it can work in a big way if you do it right AND if the album is really good. In this day and age, do we really need a 2-3 month buildup of excitement until the actual release? Nah. This isn't 1994 anymore. ;)
Plus an album can be released digitally the day it is mastered. Some bands could do that for people who never intend to buy physical and then a proper physical release later on.
That is the absolute worst thing a band can do to build up tension for their new album. And it would actually make me pretty mad. It would completely ruin the whole period of being excited for a new release.
There is something to be said though for being surprised. Imagine if DT announced next Thursday, "Hey, our new album is all done and it is being released tomorrow!" That would be so awesome. Heck, artists like Radiohead and Taylor Swift have dropped albums out of nowhere this century, to large success, so it can work in a big way if you do it right AND if the album is really good. In this day and age, do we really need a 2-3 month buildup of excitement until the actual release? Nah. This isn't 1994 anymore. ;)
In this day and age? Yes. In a day and age where you can always stream everything you want, I think we need it more than 1994 (although I admit I wasn't consciously around back then because I was 1 year old).. If there isn't any build up to any release by any band, music becomes even more inflationary. Stuff just gets thrown out there, "here, you can now listen to our whole new album that we recorded last month". Sure, I am no fan of releasing half an album prior to its release (I even NEVER listen to singles released before the album drops). But releasing stuff without any promotion and notification on streaming services with no physical release at all would kill off a lot of excitement (for me). I love Taylor Swift's folklore and evermore, but I really didn't like that it was released digitally first and on a physical medium months after. Coincidentally, it also collides with the acoustic, "handmade" character of those albums.Plus an album can be released digitally the day it is mastered. Some bands could do that for people who never intend to buy physical and then a proper physical release later on.
And what about people who don't use streaming services? They are just not able to listen to it for three more months?
Pretty much, Yes. As the people who do use streaming services are the target audience now. And their interests are not in those who do not have streaming services. Whatever makes more money is where their interests will follow.
It's a reason why for physical releases, the musicians/labels/whomever rely on people buying those Deluxe Box Sets. It's why they fancy them up with as much crap to convince people it's worth buying the Boxset for that price. Which is another reason why I laughed and applaud Steven Wilson for even making that 10,000 BP Deluxe Box Set. The Future Bites is an album whose concept is based off consumerism, and music is a big part of consumerism.
Inside Out does a great job at their marketing, it's no wonder why DT decided to go with them. Anticipation is another great marketing strategy, you keep your consumer in that anticipation just long enough then bam, release the kraken. And it draws it up even higher.
Look at BTBAM and how big Colors 2 blew up with their anticipation for their reveal on Liquid Metal. And their hints, of the Color album style of the fonts and background to those announcements. The hype ended up shutting down their site. :lol
I also forgot about Transatlantics epic marketing situation that just so happened to occur because of a personal musical difference. You got 3 dfferent versions of the album to sell, that's 3 different products, and the target audience consumer will definitely buy all 3 albums. And even funnier fan demand got the best, as people did not want to buy the big deluxe box set just for the new ultimate mix. Which resulted in a standalone Blu-ray release. :lol
Pretty much, Yes. As the people who do use streaming services are the target audience now. And their interests are not in those who do not have streaming services. Whatever makes more money is where their interests will follow.
It's a reason why for physical releases, the musicians/labels/whomever rely on people buying those Deluxe Box Sets. It's why they fancy them up with as much crap to convince people it's worth buying the Boxset for that price. Which is another reason why I laughed and applaud Steven Wilson for even making that 10,000 BP Deluxe Box Set. The Future Bites is an album whose concept is based off consumerism, and music is a big part of consumerism.
Inside Out does a great job at their marketing, it's no wonder why DT decided to go with them. Anticipation is another great marketing strategy, you keep your consumer in that anticipation just long enough then bam, release the kraken. And it draws it up even higher.
Look at BTBAM and how big Colors 2 blew up with their anticipation for their reveal on Liquid Metal. And their hints, of the Color album style of the fonts and background to those announcements. The hype ended up shutting down their site. :lol
I also forgot about Transatlantics epic marketing situation that just so happened to occur because of a personal musical difference. You got 3 dfferent versions of the album to sell, that's 3 different products, and the target audience consumer will definitely buy all 3 albums. And even funnier fan demand got the best, as people did not want to buy the big deluxe box set just for the new ultimate mix. Which resulted in a standalone Blu-ray release. :lol
The ULTRA DELUXE MUSIC PRODUCT ON OBSOLETE MEDIA LIMITED EDITION OF ONE? :lol
the marketing & artificial hype 0that goes into an album's pre-release. . . . I could certainly live without bands doing it
In this day and age? Yes. In a day and age where you can always stream everything you want, I think we need it more than 1994 (although I admit I wasn't consciously around back then because I was 1 year old).. If there isn't any build up to any release by any band, music becomes even more inflationary. Stuff just gets thrown out there, "here, you can now listen to our whole new album that we recorded last month". Sure, I am no fan of releasing half an album prior to its release (I even NEVER listen to singles released before the album drops). But releasing stuff without any promotion and notification on streaming services with no physical release at all would kill off a lot of excitement (for me). I love Taylor Swift's folklore and evermore, but I really didn't like that it was released digitally first and on a physical medium months after. Coincidentally, it also collides with the acoustic, "handmade" character of those albums.
Because of the throwaway culture we live in (especially when it comes to how most people listen to music: “what’s today’s hit song I’m supposed to listen to and like?”) it’s important for a band like DT to NOT just throw this into the stream to get consumed and forgotten.
Because of the throwaway culture we live in (especially when it comes to how most people listen to music: “what’s today’s hit song I’m supposed to listen to and like?”) it’s important for a band like DT to NOT just throw this into the stream to get consumed and forgotten.
You just reminded me of something my 15 yr old brother actually said.
He was listening to Spotify pop or something and I said " why are you listening to that ? " and his response was along the lines of " Because it's new and trendy " and not " Because I like it "
and I was like " so you only listen to what Spotify tells you to ? " and he was like " ...yeah ? " . :sadpanda:
They'll never know the joy of actually loving a BAND and following their career and buying their CDs or Records and reading along whilst listening to the entire album in one go.
They'll never know the joy of actually loving a BAND and following their career and buying their CDs or Records and reading along whilst listening to the entire album in one go.
Instead of releasing early for streamers they could dp it like for instance A.C.T did with their latest EP.
Release the physical media first and then the streams two months later.
The fans buy it and get to listen early while casual listeners get to wait.
To me that is the proper way to do it and not the other way around.
It sounds good, but I suspect there still would be loop holes in a plan like this. If nothing else, I can easily see some schmuck uploading it to YouTube and it getting streamed that way. Aside from artists like Metallica and Taylor Swift, I doubt the YouTubeInstead of releasing early for streamers they could dp it like for instance A.C.T did with their latest EP.This is a great idea. Those who cant wait will buy.
Release the physical media first and then the streams two months later.
The fans buy it and get to listen early while casual listeners get to wait.
To me that is the proper way to do it and not the other way around.
Because of the throwaway culture we live in (especially when it comes to how most people listen to music: “what’s today’s hit song I’m supposed to listen to and like?”) it’s important for a band like DT to NOT just throw this into the stream to get consumed and forgotten.
You just reminded me of something my 15 yr old brother actually said.
He was listening to Spotify pop or something and I said " why are you listening to that ? " and his response was along the lines of " Because it's new and trendy " and not " Because I like it "
and I was like " so you only listen to what Spotify tells you to ? " and he was like " ...yeah ? " . :sadpanda:
They'll never know the joy of actually loving a BAND and following their career and buying their CDs or Records and reading along whilst listening to the entire album in one go.
I will say this: after recent listens of both Terminal Velocity and LTE3, both of which sound much better than any DT record since probably 6DOIT (talking about the mix, specifically), if DT15 doesn't sound similar to both in regards to mix and sound quality, I will be a little disappointed. Those albums show that Petrucci still knows how to make a record sound really good, so hopefully those two recent albums were reminders and we get a great-sounding DT record later this year.
I will say this: after recent listens of both Terminal Velocity and LTE3, both of which sound much better than any DT record since probably 6DOIT (talking about the mix, specifically), if DT15 doesn't sound similar to both in regards to mix and sound quality, I will be a little disappointed. Those albums show that Petrucci still knows how to make a record sound really good, so hopefully those two recent albums were reminders and we get a great-sounding DT record later this year.
If DT15 was mixed by Andy Sneap, which was sort of accidentally revealed a while ago, we could expect something very similar sounding to TV.
I hope they don't drown the vocals with too much chorus.. :facepalm:
If they didn't decide to mess with any new types of production styles and go for a more refined D/T sound, I will be excited. D/T has a great mix for the MM era of DT.
The Christmas song they released sometime ago was pretty decent in terms of mixing.
I feel that maybe they'll come up with something like that for this album.
I hope they don't drown the vocals with too much chorus.. :facepalm:
If they didn't decide to mess with any new types of production styles and go for a more refined D/T sound, I will be excited. D/T has a great mix for the MM era of DT.
I hope they don't drown the vocals with too much chorus.. :facepalm:
If they didn't decide to mess with any new types of production styles and go for a more refined D/T sound, I will be excited. D/T has a great mix for the MM era of DT.
I'm afraid that's a given if we consider the inevitable decline in James' voice. But i would be pleasantly surprised if that's not the case in the upcoming album.
If you’re obsessed with groove and feel and not technical drumming why on Earth would you listen to Mike Portnoy? He’s literally the poster child for ridiculous, self-indulgent, technical drumming, about as far from a “feel and groove” guy as you can get. Don’t get me wrong, I love his work but even I acknowledge that he overplays on his ridiculously sized drum kit.
I have noticed that about Mangini, his knack for bashing the crap out of every single hit, when there are times where a lighter touch is necessary and/or more fitting. Go watch the live version of Speak to Me from the 5 Years in a LiveTime. Portnoy's cymbal work during the verses is very simple and understated, yet fits the song perfectly. I never get that "lighter touch" feel from Mangini's playing. It's like the volume of everything he hits is at 11.
I've said that in the past and i'll say it again. The biggest issue mangini has is the production of his drum sound, as having seen him live (outside of a DT show) changed my perspective.
He's definitely way behind MP in terms of making his drums sound great. And it shows with how inconsistent his sound has been throughout the albums he's been a part of.
But, i can't believe that someone hears this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnqojyUeTc8 and says that Mike has no dynamics or whatever.
I've said that in the past and i'll say it again. The biggest issue mangini has is the production of his drum sound, as having seen him live (outside of a DT show) changed my perspective.
He's definitely way behind MP in terms of making his drums sound great. And it shows with how inconsistent his sound has been throughout the albums he's been a part of.
But, i can't believe that someone hears this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnqojyUeTc8 and says that Mike has no dynamics or whatever.
True, and I know he has said that it was out of his control, but now I am not no sure. Both JP's solo album and LTE3 sound terrific, in overall sound and in the drum sound, so it's not like John Petrucci has forgotten how to get an album to sound good. Perhaps there is something in the way Mangini records his drums that makes them difficult to mix well with the other instruments or something to that effect.
Maybe not on LTE3, but on JP's solo album? Absolutely! MP was just a session guy, even if he is JP's friend and former bandmate. JP was in full control of his solo album. I can only imagine that JP may have asked for MP's input, but given that JP's worked without MP for over 10 years now, I have my doubts about that. Plus JP has always been the one more focused on the sound and sonic presentation - not MP. It was JP who wanted SFaM to be remixed by Kevin Shirley - MP was fine with David Bottrill's mixes.I can't imagine MP letting JP call all the shots on the drum sound on both JP's solo and LTE3 to be honest.I've said that in the past and i'll say it again. The biggest issue mangini has is the production of his drum sound, as having seen him live (outside of a DT show) changed my perspective.
He's definitely way behind MP in terms of making his drums sound great. And it shows with how inconsistent his sound has been throughout the albums he's been a part of.
But, i can't believe that someone hears this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnqojyUeTc8 and says that Mike has no dynamics or whatever.
True, and I know he has said that it was out of his control, but now I am not no sure. Both JP's solo album and LTE3 sound terrific, in overall sound and in the drum sound, so it's not like John Petrucci has forgotten how to get an album to sound good. Perhaps there is something in the way Mangini records his drums that makes them difficult to mix well with the other instruments or something to that effect.
Maybe not on LTE3, but on JP's solo album? Absolutely! MP was just a session guy, even if he is JP's friend and former bandmate. JP was in full control of his solo album. I can only imagine that JP may have asked for MP's input, but given that JP's worked without MP for over 10 years now, I have my doubts about that. Plus JP has always been the one more focused on the sound and sonic presentation - not MP. It was JP who wanted SFaM to be remixed by Kevin Shirley - MP was fine with David Bottrill's mixes.I can't imagine MP letting JP call all the shots on the drum sound on both JP's solo and LTE3 to be honest.I've said that in the past and i'll say it again. The biggest issue mangini has is the production of his drum sound, as having seen him live (outside of a DT show) changed my perspective.
He's definitely way behind MP in terms of making his drums sound great. And it shows with how inconsistent his sound has been throughout the albums he's been a part of.
But, i can't believe that someone hears this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnqojyUeTc8 and says that Mike has no dynamics or whatever.
True, and I know he has said that it was out of his control, but now I am not no sure. Both JP's solo album and LTE3 sound terrific, in overall sound and in the drum sound, so it's not like John Petrucci has forgotten how to get an album to sound good. Perhaps there is something in the way Mangini records his drums that makes them difficult to mix well with the other instruments or something to that effect.
Mangini is definitely playing softer during the first half of the Breaking All Illusions solo. I've noticed it on all live versions and the studio version.
I've said that in the past and i'll say it again. The biggest issue mangini has is the production of his drum sound, as having seen him live (outside of a DT show) changed my perspective.
He's definitely way behind MP in terms of making his drums sound great. And it shows with how inconsistent his sound has been throughout the albums he's been a part of.
But, i can't believe that someone hears this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnqojyUeTc8 and says that Mike has no dynamics or whatever.
Mangini is definitely playing softer during the first half of the Breaking All Illusions solo. I've noticed it on all live versions and the studio version.
Mangini is extremely dynamic in his playing, but definitey in a very nuanced and sometimes not-obvious way like Portnoy is (not taking anything from MP, whose style I admire greatly of course).
Also, remember when the overall criticism to MM’s sound in the ADTOE era was that he wasn’t hitting his drums hard enough? Lol
The biggest issue a lot of fans seem to have with MM is that he isn't MP and that he doesn't sound like MP. And that would've happened to anyone who came in to replace MP after being the only drummer in the band for 25 years...
I'm convinced DT could've brought Neil Peart in to replace MP and people would've still complained :lol
The biggest issue a lot of fans seem to have with MM is that he isn't MP and that he doesn't sound like MP. And that would've happened to anyone who came in to replace MP after being the only drummer in the band for 25 years...
I'm convinced DT could've brought Neil Peart in to replace MP and people would've still complained :lol
That's partly MMs fault as he plays every hit at the same velocity on purpose. He sounds like a drum machine. Plus he's obsessed with playing smack bang on the grid.
He says that playing smack bang on the beat with every hit has just as much feel as someone like MP or Lars Ulrich or Gavin Harrison who ebb and flow with the music.
I disagree but i'm obsessed with groove and feel and less so about being technical.
He personally told me that he wasn't satisfied with his sound on ADTOE when i interviewed him, as he felt it was sounding like it was recorded with only two microphones in the room. I guess not wanting to shake things up too much and being the "new guy", he trusted JP for the sonic direction of the album.
Overall, i think it took a while, but now it seems that both MM and JP have gotten to a point where they can get the drums to sound "right" (maybe more familiar to what we are used to in DT), and i'm hopeful that the new album will be an improvement on D/T. It's a pity though for MM because the things he plays are really different and unique, might not be the super tight hi-hat sounds and tricks with the splashes that MP does, but it's on another level and very musical. Only it's a bit hidden by the wall of guitar especially on ADTOE which is in my opinion one of the most muffled sounds on DT's catalog.
The biggest issue a lot of fans seem to have with MM is that he isn't MP and that he doesn't sound like MP. And that would've happened to anyone who came in to replace MP after being the only drummer in the band for 25 years...
I'm convinced DT could've brought Neil Peart in to replace MP and people would've still complained :lol
He personally told me that he wasn't satisfied with his sound on ADTOE when i interviewed him, as he felt it was sounding like it was recorded with only two microphones in the room. I guess not wanting to shake things up too much and being the "new guy", he trusted JP for the sonic direction of the album.
Overall, i think it took a while, but now it seems that both MM and JP have gotten to a point where they can get the drums to sound "right" (maybe more familiar to what we are used to in DT), and i'm hopeful that the new album will be an improvement on D/T. It's a pity though for MM because the things he plays are really different and unique, might not be the super tight hi-hat sounds and tricks with the splashes that MP does, but it's on another level and very musical. Only it's a bit hidden by the wall of guitar especially on ADTOE which is in my opinion one of the most muffled sounds on DT's catalog.
Totally agree. I never listen to ADTOE anymore, and the muffled mix and poor drum sound is a big reason why. It's like listening to an album with a blanket over the speakers (when it rocks, the lighter moments mostly sound very good).
I think Mangini has been too passive in his approach. It's almost like he was so star struck to join the band that he was just thrilled to be there and let them do whatever they wanted with his drum sounds and then he realized what they were doing with it wasn't to his liking.
Out of all the drummers that auditioned, Marco Minneman is the one that I feel is the closest to Mike Portnoy.
I disagree - while it may be true that there are some who are complaining just because it's someone other than MP at the drum kit, just look at some of the individuals who are posting in this thread that have a problem with MM's sound. For example, both Kotowboy and KevShmev. Both of these guys has been very critical of MP and have welcomed MM with open arms into DT, yet they still are taking issue with the sound of MM's drums.The biggest issue a lot of fans seem to have with MM is that he isn't MP and that he doesn't sound like MP. And that would've happened to anyone who came in to replace MP after being the only drummer in the band for 25 years...Yes and this is completely evident.
I'm convinced DT could've brought Neil Peart in to replace MP and people would've still complained :lol
The band has already gone through more drastic changes in terms of composition/sound/technique: KM -> DS -> JR, but fans behave as if the band's big musical change was the absence of MP, which doesn't make any sense logical and rational.
I disagree - while it may be true that there are some who are complaining just because it's someone other than MP at the drum kit, just look at some of the individuals who are posting in this thread that have a problem with MM's sound. For example, both Kotowboy and KevShmev. Both of these guys has been very critical of MP and have welcomed MM with open arms into DT, yet they still are taking issue with the sound of MM's drums.
So it's not about MP not being in the band. It's about how MM's drums have been mixed, pure and simple.
I disagree - while it may be true that there are some who are complaining just because it's someone other than MP at the drum kit, just look at some of the individuals who are posting in this thread that have a problem with MM's sound. For example, both Kotowboy and KevShmev. Both of these guys has been very critical of MP and have welcomed MM with open arms into DT, yet they still are taking issue with the sound of MM's drums.
So it's not about MP not being in the band. It's about how MM's drums have been mixed, pure and simple.
Yes, of course there are folks with genuinely negative opinions about drum sound, mixing, etc. But that's not my point. My point is the recurrence of the discussion.
I'll illustrate it this way: DT releases a new album and there are some negative comments about how the bass have been mixed: "gosh, it's too low in the mix / I can't hear the bass!". How many times has this happened? It's not unusual, right? But doesn't this matter take on this proportion? It doesn't generate as much engagement and it doesn't last that long.
Overall, it will be virtually no commented until the next album.
Is it the same with the discussions regarding drum sound/drum in the mix? Not fucking way! How many times have I followed a discussion about "the drum sound on the DT" since MP quit? 100 times? 200? 300 maybe? I don't know, but enough.
Why the difference?
Two possibilities, in my view:
1) Bass ranks last in the "instruments I really care" list.
2) The former drummer's name is Mike Portnoy.
Possibly a drum sound that doesn't please bother you more than a bass sound that doesn't.
It is common for this to happen.
I wasn't satisfied with Dave LaRue's bass sound on JP's solo record or Tony Levin's bass sound on LT3.
Was there an argument here and there? Yes.
Lots of? Don't.
Has it passed? Already.
Discussions about bass sound, in general, are always like this, ephemeral and dispassionate. :lol
Personally I believe that ignoring number 2 is a lot of innocence. The fact that MP left DT completely altered the fans' relationship with the band, on all levels. To me this is clear as water. And I have no doubt that this is fundamental for the discussion "drums on the DT" to come back every other day.
In general, it is not about music.
I disagree - while it may be true that there are some who are complaining just because it's someone other than MP at the drum kit, just look at some of the individuals who are posting in this thread that have a problem with MM's sound. For example, both Kotowboy and KevShmev. Both of these guys has been very critical of MP and have welcomed MM with open arms into DT, yet they still are taking issue with the sound of MM's drums.The biggest issue a lot of fans seem to have with MM is that he isn't MP and that he doesn't sound like MP. And that would've happened to anyone who came in to replace MP after being the only drummer in the band for 25 years...Yes and this is completely evident.
I'm convinced DT could've brought Neil Peart in to replace MP and people would've still complained :lol
The band has already gone through more drastic changes in terms of composition/sound/technique: KM -> DS -> JR, but fans behave as if the band's big musical change was the absence of MP, which doesn't make any sense logical and rational.
So it's not about MP not being in the band. It's about how MM's drums have been mixed, pure and simple.
Dedalus, I see what you're saying, but to a degree, I think your comparison with the bass is a false equivalent, because aside from WDaDU, I don't think that the bass has *ever* been prominent in the mix, so as much as it's a bit of an irritation to fans who would like JMX higher in the mix, it's the status quo for DT albums. The same is not the case for the drums. And the change in the sound of the drums only happened after MP left. The fact that some who have been overly critical of MP are among those who have a problem with MM's drums shows that it's not a MP-fanboy issue, but that there's an actual objective difference in the sound of the drums between MP and MM-era releases.
I don't know. I just think that it's more to the fact that there are two drummers, with vibrant personalities, with differing styles, and differing sounds from differing eras that gives us all a lot to chew on. I don't think that it's "MP" has a lot to do with it. I think there's a finite things to discuss, and the drums allows a lot of conversation in comparisons alone. I think that's why there's more juice.
Oh, and yes, the bass is way down on points of interest.
As someone who is being referred to as being "overly critical" of Portnoy, my criticism of him is rarely about his drumming, but more about the man himself and some of his behavior over the years, most of which I stand by. He is one of my favorite drummers of all time, but I never call him one of my favorite musicians because I am not a fan of him as a person. Just wanted to clarify that.I didn't mean it in an overly negative way, but just that you aren't a biased MP-fanboy. ;)
As someone who is being referred to as being "overly critical" of Portnoy, my criticism of him is rarely about his drumming, but more about the man himself and some of his behavior over the years, most of which I stand by. He is one of my favorite drummers of all time, but I never call him one of my favorite musicians because I am not a fan of him as a person. Just wanted to clarify that.I didn't mean it in an overly negative way, but just that you aren't a biased MP-fanboy. ;)
I miss bands putting In The Studio DVDs out with their new CDs. If bands can't afford it anymore - then why not just upload it directly to YouTube? No Manufacturing costs AT ALL.
I miss bands putting In The Studio DVDs out with their new CDs. If bands can't afford it anymore - then why not just upload it directly to YouTube? No Manufacturing costs AT ALL.
The last really good one i got was Mastodon's one for Crack The Skye which was 90 minutes.
They did do one for Emperor of Sand but it was in bits and uploaded to YouTube every now and then with the full film arriving much much later.
I disagree - while it may be true that there are some who are complaining just because it's someone other than MP at the drum kit, just look at some of the individuals who are posting in this thread that have a problem with MM's sound. For example, both Kotowboy and KevShmev. Both of these guys has been very critical of MP and have welcomed MM with open arms into DT, yet they still are taking issue with the sound of MM's drums.The biggest issue a lot of fans seem to have with MM is that he isn't MP and that he doesn't sound like MP. And that would've happened to anyone who came in to replace MP after being the only drummer in the band for 25 years...Yes and this is completely evident.
I'm convinced DT could've brought Neil Peart in to replace MP and people would've still complained :lol
The band has already gone through more drastic changes in terms of composition/sound/technique: KM -> DS -> JR, but fans behave as if the band's big musical change was the absence of MP, which doesn't make any sense logical and rational.
So it's not about MP not being in the band. It's about how MM's drums have been mixed, pure and simple.
I miss bands putting In The Studio DVDs out with their new CDs. If bands can't afford it anymore - then why not just upload it directly to YouTube? No Manufacturing costs AT ALL.
I miss bands putting In The Studio DVDs out with their new CDs. If bands can't afford it anymore - then why not just upload it directly to YouTube? No Manufacturing costs AT ALL.
The last really good one i got was Mastodon's one for Crack The Skye which was 90 minutes.
They did do one for Emperor of Sand but it was in bits and uploaded to YouTube every now and then with the full film arriving much much later.
Before a band puts In The Studio footage on YouTube, they need to hire people to record them, and then to edit that footage into a video first. That's manufacturing costs.
I miss bands putting In The Studio DVDs out with their new CDs. If bands can't afford it anymore - then why not just upload it directly to YouTube? No Manufacturing costs AT ALL.
They are making a proper making of video for this new album. It's been said in interviews, one of which I did on my YouTube channel...
I've been waiting for this one since Systematic chaos. :metalI miss bands putting In The Studio DVDs out with their new CDs. If bands can't afford it anymore - then why not just upload it directly to YouTube? No Manufacturing costs AT ALL.
They are making a proper making of video for this new album. It's been said in interviews, one of which I did on my YouTube channel...
I miss bands putting In The Studio DVDs out with their new CDs. If bands can't afford it anymore - then why not just upload it directly to YouTube? No Manufacturing costs AT ALL.
The last really good one i got was Mastodon's one for Crack The Skye which was 90 minutes.
They did do one for Emperor of Sand but it was in bits and uploaded to YouTube every now and then with the full film arriving much much later.
Before a band puts In The Studio footage on YouTube, they need to hire people to record them, and then to edit that footage into a video first. That's manufacturing costs.
Or they could do it themselves. I'm sure between the 5 / 6 of them they could figure out how to use a "computer" . . .
Metropolis Pt.1 is 9:32 so obviously this confirms Metropolis Pt.3
Putting what I've found (with some help) in small text for the sake of those who want to figure it out for themselves, although I still haven't got to anything cohesive yet:
The track times in the hallway, city and the web correspond to the track times (and add up to pretty much the total album lengths of) When Dream and Day Unite, Images and Words and Awake respectively. So, no I don't think these are track times for the upcoming album. The images behind them I'd also guess to represent Afterlife (this one I'm least sure of), Metropolis and Caught in a Web.
With the times at the end, I found out that if you see those as an indication for how much time has elapsed since the beginning of the songs that correspond to their respective acronyms (The Answer and About to Crash), you get "to witness this great spectacle first hand" from Lord Nafaryus and "saying things never said" from War Inside My Head. Beyond that, I'm a bit stumped.
It's a remix of The Astonishing done by Portnoy, with tracks reduced in length and an improved storyline.
I wonder what the significance of showing the first three albums is... I also wonder if they'll do more of these teasers and show other album art/track listings...
Nice work, very clever! :tupPutting what I've found (with some help) in small text for the sake of those who want to figure it out for themselves, although I still haven't got to anything cohesive yet:
The track times in the hallway, city and the web correspond to the track times (and add up to pretty much the total album lengths of) When Dream and Day Unite, Images and Words and Awake respectively. So, no I don't think these are track times for the upcoming album. The images behind them I'd also guess to represent Afterlife (this one I'm least sure of), Metropolis and Caught in a Web.
With the times at the end, I found out that if you see those as an indication for how much time has elapsed since the beginning of the songs that correspond to their respective acronyms (The Answer and About to Crash), you get "to witness this great spectacle first hand" from Lord Nafaryus and "saying things never said" from War Inside My Head. Beyond that, I'm a bit stumped.
Whoa :o
Could them be indicating the placement of the new art snippets? ...using the older art as orientation.This might be true. If someone has photoshop skills, I would like to see these put together.
What could this mean at the end?So... maybe time stamps for 2 new songs? (like Metropolaris wrote)
TA 09:32. ATC 07:35
What could this mean at the end?So... maybe time stamps for 2 new songs? (like Metropolaris wrote)
TA 09:32. ATC 07:35
So, if this is the case, we can already guess what the song titles will be? Like, The Awakening and As Time Collides?What could this mean at the end?So... maybe time stamps for 2 new songs? (like Metropolaris wrote)
TA 09:32. ATC 07:35
I think so. I think the fact that they share initials and length with other songs is a coincidence.
So, if this is the case, we can already guess what the song titles will be? Like, The Awakening and As Time Collides?What could this mean at the end?So... maybe time stamps for 2 new songs? (like Metropolaris wrote)
TA 09:32. ATC 07:35
I think so. I think the fact that they share initials and length with other songs is a coincidence.
Little guy on a huge boot. Little guy on a sundial.. and a big guy laying on the ground.I guess not, since Jordan mentioned during some interview last year that DT15 will not be a concept album, they did however have an overarching topic for DT15. (as documented in the title page.)
It's a concept album about Gulliver's Travels obviously.
I guess in the first frame with tracking duration is about WDADU, on the metropolis frame there is 4:22 is about Another Day, on the last frame with numbers is about Awake , or i am crazy?Yes, the track durations are all listed on the images following the album cover images.
Putting what I've found (with some help) in small text for the sake of those who want to figure it out for themselves, although I still haven't got to anything cohesive yet:Wat.
The track times in the hallway, city and the web correspond to the track times (and add up to pretty much the total album lengths of) When Dream and Day Unite, Images and Words and Awake respectively. So, no I don't think these are track times for the upcoming album. The images behind them I'd also guess to represent Afterlife (this one I'm least sure of), Metropolis and Caught in a Web.
With the times at the end, I found out that if you see those as an indication for how much time has elapsed since the beginning of the songs that correspond to their respective acronyms (The Answer and About to Crash), you get "to witness this great spectacle first hand" from Lord Nafaryus and "saying things never said" from War Inside My Head. Beyond that, I'm a bit stumped.
I think this’ll be the first in a series of 5 videos like this. 5 videos over the next 5 weeks showing 3 past albums and their track lengths along with little snippets of artwork and track lengths and abbreviations from DT15.I don't have any inside information, but this seems like a logical possibility. If another video shows up like it, then we'll know for sure.
Culminating with a reveal of the complete artwork and track listing in the final video, along with probably the first single.
Little guy on a huge boot. Little guy on a sundial.. and a big guy laying on the ground.D'OH! And here it was in front of us the WHOLE time! :facepalm:
It's a concept album about Gulliver's Travels obviously.
:lol He didn't use green type, but I know the wookie pretty well and that wasn't meant to be taken seriously. :biggrin:Little guy on a huge boot. Little guy on a sundial.. and a big guy laying on the ground.I guess not, since Jordan mentioned during some interview last year that DT15 will not be a concept album, they did however have an overarching topic for DT15. (as documented in the title page.)
It's a concept album about Gulliver's Travels obviously.
I thought of Gulliver's Travels for a bit too though.
Those sound like winning titles to me! :rollinTremendous Aardvark and Abstract Taco Coverup.So, if this is the case, we can already guess what the song titles will be? Like, The Awakening and As Time Collides?I think so. I think the fact that they share initials and length with other songs is a coincidence.What could this mean at the end?So... maybe time stamps for 2 new songs? (like Metropolaris wrote)
TA 09:32. ATC 07:35
These Walls is 7:36, so if these are references to older tracks, it could be to TW, too.Metropolis Pt.1 is 9:32 so obviously this confirms Metropolis Pt.3
Haha, exactly.
A quick scan reveals that they have no songs yet that are 7:35, although Raw Dog was 7:34. Damn, so close to Raw Dog Part 2... :lol :lol
I think they already showed us the new album artwork, only that it's super small.
If you look closely at the very start of the video, there are three images on that viewmaster disc. The 3rd one seems to have the "Dream Theater" font on top, the shoes also appear there.
I agree. Good eye gzarruk!I think they already showed us the new album artwork, only that it's super small.I think you might be correct
If you look closely at the very start of the video, there are three images on that viewmaster disc. The 3rd one seems to have the "Dream Theater" font on top, the shoes also appear there.
I agree. Good eye gzarruk!I think they already showed us the new album artwork, only that it's super small.I think you might be correct
If you look closely at the very start of the video, there are three images on that viewmaster disc. The 3rd one seems to have the "Dream Theater" font on top, the shoes also appear there.
I think they already showed us the new album artwork, only that it's super small.
If you look closely at the very start of the video, there are three images on that viewmaster disc. The 3rd one seems to have the "Dream Theater" font on top, the shoes also appear there.
I think they already showed us the new album artwork, only that it's super small.
If you look closely at the very start of the video, there are three images on that viewmaster disc. The 3rd one seems to have the "Dream Theater" font on top, the shoes also appear there.
Hugh Syme strikes again
(https://i.imgur.com/fvtWvlu.jpeg)
Kinda looks like the get the album MS Paint game.
Look at google images for Kjeragbolten. There exists literally thousands of images that are very similar to that image.
Look at google images for Kjeragbolten. There exists literally thousands of images that are very similar to that image.
And at least in my search, the supposed cover art is literally the second result.
I hope this doesn't mean that Hugh Syme has gone beyond using stock images and now is getting paid just to google photos :lol
Assumptions, assumptions. You know what happens when you ASSuME...Isn't that the online DT fan way, though? :lol
I can't wait to play find the watermark.
Hugh Syme strikes again
*snip*
So yeah as someone else said - copy and pasting two stock images together was too much like hard work - he literally googled a photo and sent the band an invoice. :rollin
Wait, did this really happen? :lolAssumptions, assumptions. You know what happens when you ASSuME...Isn't that the online DT fan way, though? :lol
Remember the fiasco when the track listing for ToT was first announced? MP was working with Neal Morse at the time and people took 1 + 1 and came up with 3. All of the sudden DT was becoming a Christian band because of MP working with Neal based strictly on the song titles. :facepalm:
The guy balancing on a unicycle from ADToE needs to be on that boulder :)
Album title guess: Caught Between A Rock And A Hard Place
I don't remember it being so literally, as in "OMG DT converted and became a christian band", but definitively the song titles gave concers about, if not a literal conversion, a very strong religious-oriented set of lyrics.
As long as the music had stayed the same I wouldn't even care. Arent Myung, Petrucci and Mangini all Christian / Catholic anyway ?IIRC, John and Mike are. Not sure about JM.
I think they already showed us the new album artwork, only that it's super small.
If you look closely at the very start of the video, there are three images on that viewmaster disc. The 3rd one seems to have the "Dream Theater" font on top, the shoes also appear there.
Hugh Syme strikes again
(https://i.imgur.com/fvtWvlu.jpeg)
Was there any doubt?
It's a remix of The Astonishing done by Portnoy, with tracks reduced in length and an improved storyline.
I am pretty sure if MP did any editing, the songs would not be any shorter.
It's too far down. The step to the rock. Nope...well maybe, after I watch others do it and it looks steady.
It's too far down. The step to the rock. Nope...well maybe, after I watch others do it and it looks steady.
I would think that the wedged rock would be solid and if you look at the direction the kid is going, there looks to be an easy step up. Now going back looks to be a little more difficult.
But I agree, let someone else make the first mistake! :biggrin:
Unicycle guy had it way harder on ADTOE ;) :lol
:rollin :hefdaddy thanks so much mate, seriouslyUnicycle guy had it way harder on ADTOE ;) :lol
Nah it was PLANE Sailing :neverusethis:
I don't remember it being so literally, as in "OMG DT converted and became a christian band", but definitively the song titles gave concers about, if not a literal conversion, a very strong religious-oriented set of lyrics.Not everyone took it so literally, but there were a few that took the assumption to the extreme and were freaking out. In any case, it was ridiculous any way you cut it.
I don't remember it being so literally, as in "OMG DT converted and became a christian band", but definitively the song titles gave concers about, if not a literal conversion, a very strong religious-oriented set of lyrics.Not everyone took it so literally, but there were a few that took the assumption to the extreme and were freaking out. In any case, it was ridiculous any way you cut it.
The guys describing the album as "intense" and the norwegian landscape of the supposed cover art means only one thing:
DT goes black metal :metal
I don't remember it being so literally, as in "OMG DT converted and became a christian band", but definitively the song titles gave concers about, if not a literal conversion, a very strong religious-oriented set of lyrics.Not everyone took it so literally, but there were a few that took the assumption to the extreme and were freaking out. In any case, it was ridiculous any way you cut it.
Bottom line...new DT music soon. Time has sure flown by since Mangini joined the band.and by next year, this current line up will be active longer than the lineup that made Met2.
Bottom line...new DT music soon. Time has sure flown by since Mangini joined the band.Definitely. It’s crazy to think that Mangini will soon be on 1/3 of their catalog.
Bottom line...new DT music soon. Time has sure flown by since Mangini joined the band.and by next year, this current line up will be active longer than the lineup that made Met2.
Bottom line...new DT music soon. Time has sure flown by since Mangini joined the band.and by next year, this current line up will be active longer than the lineup that made Met2.
When you put it like that it almost seems like the years should be weighted, like the early years count for more. It's got to be more difficult to get a band going than joining an established band, right?Bottom line...new DT music soon. Time has sure flown by since Mangini joined the band.and by next year, this current line up will be active longer than the lineup that made Met2.
That happens quickly; the Tommy Thayer/Eric Singer Kiss is the longest iteration of that band (20 years, 25 for Singer; Ace was in for 15, and Peter for 14). Steve Morse has been in Deep Purple longer than Ritchie Blackmore was (it's almost twice as long at this point, 16 vs. 28 years).
(https://i.imgur.com/rAFP13z.gif)Bottom line...new DT music soon. Time has sure flown by since Mangini joined the band.and by next year, this current line up will be active longer than the lineup that made Met2.
When you put it like that it almost seems like the years should be weighted, like the early years count for more. It's got to be more difficult to get a band going than joining an established band, right?Bottom line...new DT music soon. Time has sure flown by since Mangini joined the band.and by next year, this current line up will be active longer than the lineup that made Met2.
That happens quickly; the Tommy Thayer/Eric Singer Kiss is the longest iteration of that band (20 years, 25 for Singer; Ace was in for 15, and Peter for 14). Steve Morse has been in Deep Purple longer than Ritchie Blackmore was (it's almost twice as long at this point, 16 vs. 28 years).
Or Iron Maiden - from 1980 to 1986, in six years, they made six albums and became a legendary live band. In 6 years since The Book of Souls they did an album tour, a greatest hits tour and they got stopped by the pandemic. Not all periods of time are equal.
In all fairness, it's not quite as comparable, given that Dream Theater have been about as active album-wise as they've ever been and still aren't really settling with a legacy band status, despite a few anniversary tours.
The next tour will tell the tale if they really are becoming a legacy band or not since their last two tours were (co-)promoted as playing albums from 20+ years earlier, which is generally what legacy bands do, so we will see.
The next tour will tell the tale if they really are becoming a legacy band or not since their last two tours were (co-)promoted as playing albums from 20+ years earlier, which is generally what legacy bands do, so we will see.In addition to what bosk said: I'm also a huge fan of The Offspring - a band that, like DT, was formed in the mid '80s, and whose first album came out in 1989. Believe me, DT is far from being a nostalgia act/legacy band.
The next tour will tell the tale if they really are becoming a legacy band or not since their last two tours were (co-)promoted as playing albums from 20+ years earlier, which is generally what legacy bands do, so we will see.
I have literally never heard the term "legacy band" prior to about 2 minutes ago when I read the last few posts in this thread. But if you mean "nostalgia act," which is what I take you to mean, there is a huge difference between the two.
Relying on past music and not making a concerted effort to compose or to actively promote new material (i.e., not DT) = nostalgia act.
Celebrating past music while also making a concerted effort to compose and actively promote new material (i.e., DT) =/= nostalgia act.
The next tour will tell the tale if they really are becoming a legacy band or not since their last two tours were (co-)promoted as playing albums from 20+ years earlier, which is generally what legacy bands do, so we will see.
I have literally never heard the term "legacy band" prior to about 2 minutes ago when I read the last few posts in this thread. But if you mean "nostalgia act," which is what I take you to mean, there is a huge difference between the two.
Relying on past music and not making a concerted effort to compose or to actively promote new material (i.e., not DT) = nostalgia act.
Celebrating past music while also making a concerted effort to compose and actively promote new material (i.e., DT) =/= nostalgia act.
Not for nothing, but they've straddled the fence. To have two consecutive tours playing entire albums over 25 years old certainly at least qualifies for a nostalgia tour.
If the album performance was a one off or done just a handful of times, I'd be ok with that.
I like what they did on the DT12 tour, where they played a suite of tracks. I think that's the way to pay proper tribute to past material.
"Hugh Syme cover art confirmed"confirmed, because of this here being present in the viewfinder: http://www.hughsyme.com/#651
It's not confirmed is it? Just speculation.
Of course it's 99% likely to be him.
New single out end of mnd? Confirmed?
I'd be down for a re-recording of WDADU and pre-I&W unreleased songs.
I'd be down for a re-recording of WDADU and pre-I&W unreleased songs.
I don't understand why this keeps getting brought up as though it's something that has ANY chance of happening.
A grand total of ZERO fans are longing for re-recordings of old DT material.
What "easy opportunity" are you referring to? They can't do WDADU for legal reasons, so there is no opportunity.
Also, on this forum we're all diehards and we love everything, debut album included, but it's not that there's a huge demand to have another version of an album "everyone" (as in, the general public) has forgotten about.
Also, James, Jordan and Mike weren't even on that album, what emotional attachment would they have to the songs?
They have no interest in doing so because...Also, on this forum we're all diehards and we love everything, debut album included, but it's not that there's a huge demand to have another version of an album "everyone" (as in, the general public) has forgotten about.
Also, James, Jordan and Mike weren't even on that album, what emotional attachment would they have to the songs?
They know this and why waste the time re-recording when you could be writing, touring, or hanging out with family.
I like the original and don't need a re-record. I enjoy the album as a stamp in time. Everything about it is part of that time stamp.
What "easy opportunity" are you referring to? They can't do WDADU for legal reasons, so there is no opportunity.
And as far as other pre-I&W unreleased songs, as far as I know, there isn't anything "unreleased." They have put just about everything they can out there, through one means or another.
What "easy opportunity" are you referring to? They can't do WDADU for legal reasons, so there is no opportunity. And as far as other pre-I&W unreleased songs, as far as I know, there isn't anything "unreleased." They have put just about everything they can out there, through one means or another.
I'm seeing a textured background in that link and some type along the top, but nothing else. Am I missing something or did he pull the artwork from that link?"Hugh Syme cover art confirmed"confirmed, because of this here being present in the viewfinder: http://www.hughsyme.com/#651
It's not confirmed is it? Just speculation.
Of course it's 99% likely to be him.
I know DT likely wouldn't do it but it can't be that hard to build click tracks, record songs that are already written, then have a mix/mastering engineer work their magic.
Taylor Swift is re-recording her entire discography because of label issues DT can do one album. Could bring on guest musicians. Could re-release one of the songs with a music video celebrating the good old days. People these days love nostalgia and energetic/technical music. There will likely never be another Through the Fire and Flames, but you can catch the same energy.
What "easy opportunity" are you referring to? They can't do WDADU for legal reasons, so there is no opportunity. And as far as other pre-I&W unreleased songs, as far as I know, there isn't anything "unreleased." They have put just about everything they can out there, through one means or another.
What "easy opportunity" are you referring to? They can't do WDADU for legal reasons, so there is no opportunity.
Are they really not allowed to re-record the songs? I thought when you signed label contracts they owned the recordings but the artist owned the songs. Otherwise DT wouldn't be able to release live recordings of the tracks. Or is their Mechanic contract that bad?
If you can't, I understand, but can you elaborate? Unless the publisher blocks it for some (unknown) reason, they ought to be able to record their songs again.
Assuming that the last slide with the initials hints at new songs, it's time to start guessing song titles:
TA = Troll Arithmetic 09:32
ATC = Agitated Tentacle Clowns 07:35
IM = Incontinent Manatee 06:02
SG = Squid Gymnastics 10:05
What "easy opportunity" are you referring to? They can't do WDADU for legal reasons, so there is no opportunity. And as far as other pre-I&W unreleased songs, as far as I know, there isn't anything "unreleased." They have put just about everything they can out there, through one means or another.
What reasons are those? The copyrights are all owned and/or controlled by the then band members (or corporate entities that they own and control), and that's all that's needed. The band doesn't own or control the original masters, but the original masters aren't needed to do a re-recording. Unless they entered into a contract at some point that prohibits re-recording any or all of WDADU, I'm not sure what legal reason might prevent it.
Assuming that the last slide with the initials hints at new songs, it's time to start guessing song titles:It's also time to start guessing why Kyo is going with a sea creatures theme with most of his guesses! :justjen
TA = Troll Arithmetic 09:32
ATC = Agitated Tentacle Clowns 07:35
IM = Incontinent Manatee 06:02
SG = Squid Gymnastics 10:05
Don't know, other than what I have heard. Obviously, I have not seen whatever contracts they originally signed. But my impression from what I have heard is that the original label has the rights to that material, which precludes them from re-recording them. I know of other bands that signed deals in the '70s and '80s that have said similar things, so I don't doubt that those kinds of deals exist (or, at least, that there are certain types of contracts in that industry that are, at the very least, interpreted as not allowing the artists to re-record that material later on, and that that interpretation at least has enough teeth that the bands don't want to waste time and money litigating whether or not it will hold up in court). I also have heard in some of those situations where performing the songs live, and having those live versions show up on albums is not a problem. Having that background, DT being in that situation does not surprise me.
I might be mistaken about what DT have said about it, and I might be mistaken about other parts of this as well. But that is my recollection of what was said and my understanding of where they are on that.
Assuming that the last slide with the initials hints at new songs, it's time to start guessing song titles:It's also time to start guessing why Kyo is going with a sea creatures theme with most of his guesses! :justjen
TA = Troll Arithmetic 09:32
ATC = Agitated Tentacle Clowns 07:35
IM = Incontinent Manatee 06:02
SG = Squid Gymnastics 10:05
:biggrin:
...the copyrights for all of the WDADU songs are owned by the then-band members and/or business entities that they own and control.
...
Mechanic Records was a sub-label started by MCA, and MCA did not commonly do this.
That it was a live recording doesn't make any legal difference (again, in the absence of a really weird contractual provision).
All that being said, it's certainly possible that the band members don't fully understand the situation. In fact, I suspect that, at most, only one of them has ever given much thought to it. I doubt very much JLB, JR and MM have ever thought about it, and it doesn't strike me as the sort of thing that JM would think about. And, at the end of the day (although you'd obviously know better than I), I don't think that any of them care even a little, tiny bit, much less enough to seek a definitive opinion about the legalities.
But I was told of a similar thing in the past with a '70s artist where fans in the '80s and '90s were clamoring for the band to re-record their first two albums, which were owned by a small label that had become defunct, which resulted in the albums long since being out of print. He mentioned that they were not allowed to re-record the album in the studio.
By you, baby.
Excellent intuition, by the way. Did you know that already, or did you just glean who I was talking about because...well, because it was me?
By you, baby.
Excellent intuition, by the way. Did you know that already, or did you just glean who I was talking about because...well, because it was me?
Well, both kind of. I mean it's not uncommon for you to cite Y&T in any conversation, but I'm well aware that they had two albums as Yesterday & Today before they became Y&T. I was not aware of any contracts.
I had Struck Down on 8-track when I was a kid.
I haven't followed them very closely but how much of those two albums have been represented on a live release throughout the years? I know early on they played 25 Hours A Day on the Live At The Civic video.
WDADU is a part of their past, not their future.
... by including them on a bonus CD, it will heighten their awareness of these old tracks, not unlike them including Another Won and Raise the Knife in the Score setlist did the same for those songs.
25 Hours was on Open Fire Live, not the SF Civic video.
There was a time (late '80s to mid '90s) when I would have offered you a decent chunk of change for that 8-track.
I messaged you about it, Scotty. You'll see what we found and it will most likely make sense to you.I'm seeing a textured background in that link and some type along the top, but nothing else. Am I missing something or did he pull the artwork from that link?"Hugh Syme cover art confirmed"confirmed, because of this here being present in the viewfinder: http://www.hughsyme.com/#651
It's not confirmed is it? Just speculation.
Of course it's 99% likely to be him.
Regarding the idea of re-recording some older songs in the studio, I don't think it's a bad idea for a bonus CD to their new one any more than them doing some covers like they did for BCaSL - maybe even putting a new spin on them. Most fans (or at least newer fans) may not be familiar with the old songs, but by including them on a bonus CD, it will heighten their awareness of these old tracks, not unlike them including Another Won and Raise the Knife in the Score setlist did the same for those songs. Yeah, several of the guys might not have an attachment to them, but if they were to be reworked to some degree, then they would. That said, it's a moot point since noxon said there are no re-recordings, but it's fun to imagine.
Assuming that there will be three more videos like this with TOT/8V/SC, BC&SL/ADTOE/DT12 and TA/DoT/DT15, we could expect at least 6 new tracks...AND
So far, regarding the length of the songs, I like it!!
I wonder if they’re presenting the new song times to us in the order that they are on the album?
I hope DT15 isn't another BC&SL "Four Epics and two shorter songs".
I get bored of albums with few tracks very quickly.
I hope it's at least nine individual tracks again like ADTOE, DT12 and D/T
Chill out old man. People are just getting over excited.
Besides, who would go bat shit crazy over anything Flying Colors related??
No offense to either of you, but that's a pet peeve of mine. What do song lengths have to do with anything other than, well, song lengths? You get nothing from that other than, well, song lengths. I guess you get SOME indication of how many songs are on the album, but in terms of anything tangible, "Yesterday" (2:07) and "Revolution 9" (8:13), nuff said.
I remember when Flying Colors came out and they published the titles and times and everyone went bat-shit crazy about how "great" Infinite Fire and Blue Ocean were, WITHOUT HAVING HEARD THEM, simply because they were the two longest songs on the record. For my money, FC is one of the better albums Mike has done since leaving DT, and those two don't even crack the top five songs of the record. MAYBE Infinte Fire comes in at five.
He pulled it. It was there a few days ago. It was an edit of this picture of The Betsy Orb: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/6rvcp8/giant_swiss_ball_between_two_buildings_in_miamiI'm seeing a textured background in that link and some type along the top, but nothing else. Am I missing something or did he pull the artwork from that link?"Hugh Syme cover art confirmed"confirmed, because of this here being present in the viewfinder: http://www.hughsyme.com/#651
It's not confirmed is it? Just speculation.
Of course it's 99% likely to be him.
^ Agreed.
For me, personally, DT's strengths lie in longer, epic songs. They are almost always the better ones on any given album.
On the last few releases I have missed these longer songs and whilst the last album was a strong one, it still feels "DT-lite" to me in some regards with some songs that would have benefited from being longer.
Obviously this is not always the case and it has to be balanced in terms of lengths.
So far, if these are indeed the track lengths, then colour me happy. I hope it continues when and we'll get another few 9/10 minute songs on the next few updates.
...the copyrights for all of the WDADU songs are owned by the then-band members and/or business entities that they own and control.
...
Mechanic Records was a sub-label started by MCA, and MCA did not commonly do this.
Not sure what leads you to either of those conclusions. But anyhow...
I don't see the harm in knowing the tracklist beforehand. I mean sure it doesn't tell you anything but that, but I always enjoy finding out little bits of tidbits like that in the lead up to an album.
I messaged you about it, Scotty. You'll see what we found and it will most likely make sense to you.Thanks Max!
Besides, who would go bat shit crazy over anything Flying Colors related??Gonna take a wild guess on this one and say "Flying Colors fans". ;)
Just to set the record straight on this one: I recall reading interviews or hearing comments from MP that they could go back in the studio to re-record WDaDU. The issue is they didn't want to. But then again, for the longest time, he also maintained that they wouldn't record covers in the studio either, and eventually they did BCaSL with the covers bonus disc. So legally speaking, it doesn't appear to be an issue of whether they could re-record WDaDU in the studio - it's just a matter of whether they want to do it or not, and for the foreseeable future, the answer seems to be no....the copyrights for all of the WDADU songs are owned by the then-band members and/or business entities that they own and control.
...
Mechanic Records was a sub-label started by MCA, and MCA did not commonly do this.
Not sure what leads you to either of those conclusions. But anyhow...
With respect to the ownership of the copyrights, anyone can run searches on the U.S. Copyright Office's website, which I did, and those searches indicate that the musical composition copyrights are owned as indicated. The only way that's not true is if there have been unrecorded transfers of the ownership, which is unlikely.
I'm not sure which of the two statements about MCA you're questioning. Mechanic Records being a sub-label of MCA is public knowledge and easily verified through any number of online sources. The other statement is more based on what I know about UMG through having represented it, but MCA was folded into UMG only a couple years after I graduated law school, so I'll admit there's no real basis for that statement as it relates to MCA.
Why would you waste time on something that isn't a big deal besides for a few hardcore, dedicated fans? Rather than spending that time making a new album, touring, or spending time with family and friends.Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone was hoping they would do it as a standalone release. But as a bonus CD to their new album, or maybe if/when they come out with another compilation or box set, it would be a nice inclusion and would draw the attention of more of their fans to the album.
Why would you waste time on something that isn't a big deal besides for a few hardcore, dedicated fans? Rather than spending that time making a new album, touring, or spending time with family and friends.Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone was hoping they would do it as a standalone release. But as a bonus CD to their new album, or maybe if/when they come out with another compilation or box set, it would be a nice inclusion and would draw the attention of more of their fans to the album.
Assuming that the last slide with the initials hints at new songs, it's time to start guessing song titles:It's also time to start guessing why Kyo is going with a sea creatures theme with most of his guesses! :justjen
TA = Troll Arithmetic 09:32
ATC = Agitated Tentacle Clowns 07:35
IM = Incontinent Manatee 06:02
SG = Squid Gymnastics 10:05
:biggrin:
:implode:
If there's a couple albums in need of re-recording / remix, those are ADTOE and DT12.
Leave the old stuff where it is, it has a certain charm, i'm personally more bothered by the sound of the two above albums than WDADU.
Also, i'm extremely hyped about the new album, and even though i would love to experience the whole album at once, i'm going to listen to the first single a million times :lol
Has anyone made any substantial progress or arrived upon definitive answers to those strange clues?
Apple Music and Tidal both has the HD masters in their streaming catalog, and stream lossless. For most of the DT catalogue, it means there's a high res, lossless, apple digital master, which means it's been mastered to Apples spec, which is actually anti-loudness wars. This actually means that right now, the very best way to enjoy a DT album comes through Apple Music, sound quality wise.Are they the same masters as the HDTracks files, or new?
Apple Music and Tidal both has the HD masters in their streaming catalog, and stream lossless. For most of the DT catalogue, it means there's a high res, lossless, apple digital master, which means it's been mastered to Apples spec, which is actually anti-loudness wars. This actually means that right now, the very best way to enjoy a DT album comes through Apple Music, sound quality wise.
It's things like this that make me think the record companies purposely release inferior quality product to the masses first, just so they can re-release the same product with better sound (which is what should have been released in the first place) later, to squeeze more pennies out of chumps who like their music sounding the best it can sound, god forbid. This isn't just DT, and this has been going on for a while now. Of course, I feel like most modern music is still mastered too hot, or produced to be too loud, and it kills dynamics. Just compare old DT albums to newer ones, even the 'better' versions.
It's things like this that make me think the record companies purposely release inferior quality product to the masses first, just so they can re-release the same product with better sound (which is what should have been released in the first place) later, to squeeze more pennies out of chumps who like their music sounding the best it can sound, god forbid. This isn't just DT, and this has been going on for a while now. Of course, I feel like most modern music is still mastered too hot, or produced to be too loud, and it kills dynamics. Just compare old DT albums to newer ones, even the 'better' versions.
A sign of the times. Unfortunately, when most people listen to Spotify through shitty wireless headphones, a "loud" sound sounds better.
For audiophiles, usually vinyl is the way to go. I've had good experience with Tidal to be honest, with a pretty great sound quality and the convenience of a streaming service. (Helps that i've registered via vpn on the Turkish site and i pay like 2 euros per month for the super-duper master plan).
It's things like this that make me think the record companies purposely release inferior quality product to the masses first, just so they can re-release the same product with better sound (which is what should have been released in the first place) later, to squeeze more pennies out of chumps who like their music sounding the best it can sound, god forbid. This isn't just DT, and this has been going on for a while now. Of course, I feel like most modern music is still mastered too hot, or produced to be too loud, and it kills dynamics. Just compare old DT albums to newer ones, even the 'better' versions.
*snip
*snip
Oh, and by the way, WDADRu is a re-recording of the album.*snip
*snip
It all comes back to the record companies not getting ahead of the illegal downloading trend that started 20+ years ago. I'd like to say the movie companies did a better job handling that, but their products have been shit for 20+ years as well.How so?
Not to further derail a DT thread, but I will add the following food for thought:
When I look back on my youth, I have fond memories of my father coming home from work, throwing on a pair of head-phones, throwing on a Genesis (or VH or Elton John, etc.) record and literally just jamming out to his heart's content. Now, my father was young (21) when I was born, and these memories fade by the time I'm ten. In fact, like most grown men from his generation, music disappeared completely from his life by the time he was in his mid 30's. And when he did listen to music, it was the music from his youth and nothing else.
As a huge music fan from the moment I was able to form sentences, this always saddened me a bit. Why? You know? Why do people fall out of love with music?
Now, obviously, as a 40 year-old father of 1 (soon to be two), I get it...boy, do I ever.
Sometimes life just, well, life just gets in the way, you know?
I spent the past week in the Outer Banks with my family, and from the driving to the action-packed days at the beach, I had literally zero time to myself. What I did have, however, was a smart-phone and a pair of Aftershockz headphones https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex (https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex)(can't recommend these enough...seriously). Thanks to those two pieces of tech, I listened to hours and hours of music. One day, I literally listened to 10 hours of Miles Davis, the next, a complete run-through of the Portishead canon.
My point is, degraded sound quality aside, this might be an 'inferior' listening experience, but at least I have it, you know?
If I only listened to music when I had time to sit down in front of my turntable with a pair of good cans (like my father used to), well, I'd probably listen to like 4 records a year...or maybe none at all.
I'm not here to shit all over everyone's opinions on sound quality and 'demand' and all that...this is a DT message board, so I get where most of you are coming from, and (for the most part) I agree.
That all being said, thank God for MP3's, Apple Music, and 'shitty' sounding headphones, bc, right now, it's all I got, and I still LOVE listening to music.
Not to further derail a DT thread, but I will add the following food for thought:
When I look back on my youth, I have fond memories of my father coming home from work, throwing on a pair of head-phones, throwing on a Genesis (or VH or Elton John, etc.) record and literally just jamming out to his heart's content. Now, my father was young (21) when I was born, and these memories fade by the time I'm ten. In fact, like most grown men from his generation, music disappeared completely from his life by the time he was in his mid 30's. And when he did listen to music, it was the music from his youth and nothing else.
As a huge music fan from the moment I was able to form sentences, this always saddened me a bit. Why? You know? Why do people fall out of love with music?
Now, obviously, as a 40 year-old father of 1 (soon to be two), I get it...boy, do I ever.
Sometimes life just, well, life just gets in the way, you know?
I spent the past week in the Outer Banks with my family, and from the driving to the action-packed days at the beach, I had literally zero time to myself. What I did have, however, was a smart-phone and a pair of Aftershockz headphones https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex (https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex)(can't recommend these enough...seriously). Thanks to those two pieces of tech, I listened to hours and hours of music. One day, I literally listened to 10 hours of Miles Davis, the next, a complete run-through of the Portishead canon.
My point is, degraded sound quality aside, this might be an 'inferior' listening experience, but at least I have it, you know?
If I only listened to music when I had time to sit down in front of my turntable with a pair of good cans (like my father used to), well, I'd probably listen to like 4 records a year...or maybe none at all.
I'm not here to shit all over everyone's opinions on sound quality and 'demand' and all that...this is a DT message board, so I get where most of you are coming from, and (for the most part) I agree.
That all being said, thank God for MP3's, Apple Music, and 'shitty' sounding headphones, bc, right now, it's all I got, and I still LOVE listening to music.
Not to further derail a DT thread, but I will add the following food for thought:
When I look back on my youth, I have fond memories of my father coming home from work, throwing on a pair of head-phones, throwing on a Genesis (or VH or Elton John, etc.) record and literally just jamming out to his heart's content. Now, my father was young (21) when I was born, and these memories fade by the time I'm ten. In fact, like most grown men from his generation, music disappeared completely from his life by the time he was in his mid 30's. And when he did listen to music, it was the music from his youth and nothing else.
As a huge music fan from the moment I was able to form sentences, this always saddened me a bit. Why? You know? Why do people fall out of love with music?
Now, obviously, as a 40 year-old father of 1 (soon to be two), I get it...boy, do I ever.
Sometimes life just, well, life just gets in the way, you know?
I spent the past week in the Outer Banks with my family, and from the driving to the action-packed days at the beach, I had literally zero time to myself. What I did have, however, was a smart-phone and a pair of Aftershockz headphones https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex (https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex)(can't recommend these enough...seriously). Thanks to those two pieces of tech, I listened to hours and hours of music. One day, I literally listened to 10 hours of Miles Davis, the next, a complete run-through of the Portishead canon.
My point is, degraded sound quality aside, this might be an 'inferior' listening experience, but at least I have it, you know?
If I only listened to music when I had time to sit down in front of my turntable with a pair of good cans (like my father used to), well, I'd probably listen to like 4 records a year...or maybe none at all.
I'm not here to shit all over everyone's opinions on sound quality and 'demand' and all that...this is a DT message board, so I get where most of you are coming from, and (for the most part) I agree.
That all being said, thank God for MP3's, Apple Music, and 'shitty' sounding headphones, bc, right now, it's all I got, and I still LOVE listening to music.
Not to further derail a DT thread, but I will add the following food for thought:
When I look back on my youth, I have fond memories of my father coming home from work, throwing on a pair of head-phones, throwing on a Genesis (or VH or Elton John, etc.) record and literally just jamming out to his heart's content. Now, my father was young (21) when I was born, and these memories fade by the time I'm ten. In fact, like most grown men from his generation, music disappeared completely from his life by the time he was in his mid 30's. And when he did listen to music, it was the music from his youth and nothing else.
As a huge music fan from the moment I was able to form sentences, this always saddened me a bit. Why? You know? Why do people fall out of love with music?
Now, obviously, as a 40 year-old father of 1 (soon to be two), I get it...boy, do I ever.
Sometimes life just, well, life just gets in the way, you know?
I spent the past week in the Outer Banks with my family, and from the driving to the action-packed days at the beach, I had literally zero time to myself. What I did have, however, was a smart-phone and a pair of Aftershockz headphones https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex (https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex)(can't recommend these enough...seriously). Thanks to those two pieces of tech, I listened to hours and hours of music. One day, I literally listened to 10 hours of Miles Davis, the next, a complete run-through of the Portishead canon.
My point is, degraded sound quality aside, this might be an 'inferior' listening experience, but at least I have it, you know?
If I only listened to music when I had time to sit down in front of my turntable with a pair of good cans (like my father used to), well, I'd probably listen to like 4 records a year...or maybe none at all.
That all being said, thank God for MP3's, Apple Music, and 'shitty' sounding headphones, bc, right now, it's all I got, and I still LOVE listening to music.
Not to further derail a DT thread, but I will add the following food for thought:
When I look back on my youth, I have fond memories of my father coming home from work, throwing on a pair of head-phones, throwing on a Genesis (or VH or Elton John, etc.) record and literally just jamming out to his heart's content. Now, my father was young (21) when I was born, and these memories fade by the time I'm ten. In fact, like most grown men from his generation, music disappeared completely from his life by the time he was in his mid 30's. And when he did listen to music, it was the music from his youth and nothing else.
As a huge music fan from the moment I was able to form sentences, this always saddened me a bit. Why? You know? Why do people fall out of love with music?
Now, obviously, as a 40 year-old father of 1 (soon to be two), I get it...boy, do I ever.
Sometimes life just, well, life just gets in the way, you know?
I spent the past week in the Outer Banks with my family, and from the driving to the action-packed days at the beach, I had literally zero time to myself. What I did have, however, was a smart-phone and a pair of Aftershockz headphones https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex (https://us.aftershokz.com/products/aeropex)(can't recommend these enough...seriously). Thanks to those two pieces of tech, I listened to hours and hours of music. One day, I literally listened to 10 hours of Miles Davis, the next, a complete run-through of the Portishead canon.
My point is, degraded sound quality aside, this might be an 'inferior' listening experience, but at least I have it, you know?
If I only listened to music when I had time to sit down in front of my turntable with a pair of good cans (like my father used to), well, I'd probably listen to like 4 records a year...or maybe none at all.
So I'm going to quote this too. I read it this morning.
My parents were about the same age as yours when I was born. My parents always had music going. They had albums and 8 tracks, and we used my parents Columbia House free selections to build up my KISS discog when I was like 10 or 11. They weren't fanatics like us here. But they went to a few concerts..OK I'm talking Johnny Mathis and Barry Manilow.
My father was a school teacher and there was a few years where my mother worked 3-11 (she was a nurse), and my father would grade papers at the kitchen table with the radio on. Every time I see a 70's soft rock or one hit wonders of the 70's compilation, it always brings me back to that time in my life.
I didn't step on a plane from 1999 to 2014. So we drove for all of our vacations. My wife loves Disney so we bought into the Disney Vacation Club. During those years, we drove to Disney usually three times a year, sometimes four, and that includes a half dozen times when my stepson was younger before my kids were born. So we are talking 35+ trips driving from Massachusetts to Florida.
Listen to music on these trips was really the only way I could get through them, especially early on. It would rankle my wife because she thought we should be talking or whatever instead of me having my headphones on.
But after few years, she relented...something she rarely does. I didn't care what she wanted to do when we got there. I'd do anything. But I worked hard, and the day/day and a half ride down while listening to music was MY downtime, it was vital to recharge MY battery, and my wife eventually came to realize it and respect it.
The iPod is the best thing ever. But before that, I used a discman. Before each trip, I would "draft" the CDs that would make the trip. It was an event, like the NFL Draft. There was ceremony to it!
I have always referred to those trips as my most important music listening of each respective year. I could choose Megadeth's discography for one trip, albums from a certain year, or DT bootlegs for another.
Some of the guys might remember this, but one year I made a thread where I asked DTF to create Iron Maiden playlists for me, and there could be no repeat songs..yadayada..there were rules, and it was the fucking coolest thing.
To this day, I'll hear a song or an album, and know the exact spot on the East Coast where I was listening to it.
Precisely, we sacrifice quality for convenience as people do not have the time for music. Compared to how it was before peoples time was focused and spent on other aspects of survival like work, and kids.
I listen to stuff on Spotify, but if I really want to listen to it, I'll look for the actual album.
But, the best way to listen to music is live. You feel a lot more in the songs being played by the musicians live in front of you, than you do a recording. Recordings are a snapshot in time that musicians try and perfect. Sometimes these musicians are not satisfied with that recording and will do re-recordings.
Living in the moment is accepting that the band is not how they were in that snapshot album. You should not expect that musician, especially a vocalist, to sound the same as on that album live today.
JLB does his best, and even at that, he fluctuates a lot. He does also try to improvise live and likes to do different vocal techniques for certain parts. Even if I don't like it, I still respect him for trying something different if he wants to spice things up for himself.
I am actually interested in how his vocals will be utilized this time. He did great on D/T.
Precisely, we sacrifice quality for convenience as people do not have the time for music. Compared to how it was before peoples time was focused and spent on other aspects of survival like work, and kids.
I listen to stuff on Spotify, but if I really want to listen to it, I'll look for the actual album.
But, the best way to listen to music is live. You feel a lot more in the songs being played by the musicians live in front of you, than you do a recording. Recordings are a snapshot in time that musicians try and perfect. Sometimes these musicians are not satisfied with that recording and will do re-recordings.
Living in the moment is accepting that the band is not how they were in that snapshot album. You should not expect that musician, especially a vocalist, to sound the same as on that album live today.
JLB does his best, and even at that, he fluctuates a lot. He does also try to improvise live and likes to do different vocal techniques for certain parts. Even if I don't like it, I still respect him for trying something different if he wants to spice things up for himself.
I am actually interested in how his vocals will be utilized this time. He did great on D/T.
I agree with you, but (and this is just a 'but,' not a counter-argument or anything), I wonder if people ever had time for music.
Or, more specifically, I wonder if adults with children ever had time for music. That was the point I was making about my Dad. He was born in 57.....he was there for Beatlemania, and all that followed. My grandfather had no use for music.....it was lost on him, and my father rebelled. But by the time he had 4 kids, a full-time job, car payments, and the whole nine, he lost the time for music as well. This was the late-80's, well before Spotify or anything else.
I feel like, if anything, the technology has given us more time for music, and thanks to the tech, we have 'more' time for music than ever before.
One video each 3 days and, yes, it seems the next 2 will be next monday and thursday. I'm hoping that on thursday we’ll see the running times from all the songs of the new album! The album is around 50 minutes until now, so it seems that it will be around 80 minutes in the end. Let's see.
So if our logic is correct then, two more videos, on Monday and Thursday, and maybe an official announcement on Friday (23/07)? Maybe not because of the LNF release, but it seems we're close to something official.
One video each 3 days and, yes, it seems the next 2 will be next monday and thursday. I'm hoping that on thursday we’ll see the running times from all the songs of the new album! The album is around 50 minutes until now, so it seems that it will be around 80 minutes in the end. Let's see.
Or it will be a double album and the last length revealed will be the longest song, perhaps their second "sidelong" epic of the Mangini era. :hat :hat
Do you guys read posts in your head in the voice of the person's avatar? I read WilliamMunny's great post in the voice of William Munny. And it was glorious.
Do you guys read posts in your head in the voice of the person's avatar? I read WilliamMunny's great post in the voice of William Munny. And it was glorious.
Do you guys read posts in your head in the voice of the person's avatar? I read WilliamMunny's great post in the voice of William Munny. And it was glorious.
Do you guys read posts in your head in the voice of the person's avatar? I read WilliamMunny's great post in the voice of William Munny. And it was glorious.
For years I only read Stadler’s posts in Gene Simmons voice. Now I think it’s stuck there.
The question is, since mine is a mashup, do you hear me as The Dude, or Mr Rogers? ;D
Do you guys read posts in your head in the voice of the person's avatar? I read WilliamMunny's great post in the voice of William Munny. And it was glorious.
For years I only read Stadler’s posts in Gene Simmons voice. Now I think it’s stuck there.
The question is, since mine is a mashup, do you hear me as The Dude, or Mr Rogers? ;D
To answer your question, I’ve watched most (if not all) of the YouTube stuff you’ve posted over the years, so I actually hear your voice.Ditto for me. Then again, I've known you since forever. :biggrin:
To answer your question, I’ve watched most (if not all) of the YouTube stuff you’ve posted over the years, so I actually hear your voice.Ditto for me. Then again, I've known you since forever. :biggrin:
I wonder why in the latest video they hid the song length for These Walls in the black keys in the piano picture. It's interesting that they listed the first two tracks in order and then did the rest backwards from 8 - 4.
I wonder why in the latest video they hid the song length for These Walls in the black keys in the piano picture. It's interesting that they listed the first two tracks in order and then did the rest backwards from 8 - 4.
Do you guys read posts in your head in the voice of the person's avatar? I read WilliamMunny's great post in the voice of William Munny. And it was glorious.
I had no idea that was Mr. Rogers. I knew it wasn't JD. I just never looked that closely at it.
I went with,
Octavarium
The Astonishing
DT12
Systematic Chaos.
I went with,
Octavarium
The Astonishing
DT12
Systematic Chaos.
You went with those albums... for what, exactly? :huh:
That's not a Fast Times avatar!
It's the April 1987 Metal Hammer cover with Helloween's Michael Kiske and Kai Hansen on the cover.
Do you guys read posts in your head in the voice of the person's avatar? I read WilliamMunny's great post in the voice of William Munny. And it was glorious.
Well...scrolling through the avatars on this page that are of people, the only two I recognize are a mid-2000s photo of DT and TAC's Fast Times avatar, so...no. However, I always assume folks look like their avatar pictures. For the longest time, Stadler was Trevor Horn or Bill Belichik.
Do you guys read posts in your head in the voice of the person's avatar? I read WilliamMunny's great post in the voice of William Munny. And it was glorious.
It’s a helluva thing writing a post...
That's not a Fast Times avatar!
It's the April 1987 Metal Hammer cover with Helloween's Michael Kiske and Kai Hansen on the cover.
Oh my god, I had that issue!
That's not a Fast Times avatar!
It's the April 1987 Metal Hammer cover with Helloween's Michael Kiske and Kai Hansen on the cover.
Oh my god, I had that issue!
That issue changed my musical life forever.
That's not a Fast Times avatar!
It's the April 1987 Metal Hammer cover with Helloween's Michael Kiske and Kai Hansen on the cover.
Oh my god, I had that issue!
That issue changed my musical life forever.
I have really strong memories of it. Must have been about my first one. Also had an issue of Mega Metal Kerrang some the time that made a big Impression too.
That's not a Fast Times avatar!
It's the April 1987 Metal Hammer cover with Helloween's Michael Kiske and Kai Hansen on the cover.
That's not a Fast Times avatar!
It's the April 1987 Metal Hammer cover with Helloween's Michael Kiske and Kai Hansen on the cover.
Well...how 'bout that? :biggrin:
That's not a Fast Times avatar!
It's the April 1987 Metal Hammer cover with Helloween's Michael Kiske and Kai Hansen on the cover.
Well...how 'bout that? :biggrin:
Wait..you're a Keepers fan. D'uh. If I remembered that when I posted it would've been way more snarky. :lol
When do you think we could get an announcement of the album title, tracklist, artwork etc?
One thing I've noticed. People say we've seen the cover with that boulder stuck on the cliff that seems to have the DT font at the top of the image.I saw that too (as others - It think it has been commented here). So I think we still don't have a "proof" of the actual cover.
It looks as if there's another image that has the DT logo/text. The one with the sky and metal viewfinder? On the last 2 videos. Or are my eyes decieving me?
I don't know if I'm thinking too much, but I'll say it anyway: I had the impression that the videos have been released in intervals around 80 hours from each other, which it could already indicate the total time of the album, if we consider that the hours represents minutes (kind of what Captain Kirk did on Wrath of Khan ;D). If this is correct, the next video will be released not on monday, but on tuesday and the last, on friday.
Assuming that the last slide with the initials hints at new songs, it's time to start guessing song titles:... continued from above:
Assuming that the last slide with the initials hints at new songs, it's time to start guessing song titles:... continued from above:
TA = Troll Arithmetic 09:32
ATC = Agitated Tentacle Clowns 07:35
IM = Incontinent Manatee 06:02
SG = Squid Gymnastics 10:05
TT = Them Titties 6:25
ATM = About That Mold... 9:47
I can already tell it's going to be an album full of deep and personal lyrics.
TT = Them Titties 6:25
Assuming that the last slide with the initials hints at new songs, it's time to start guessing song titles:... continued from above:
TA = Troll Arithmetic 09:32
ATC = Agitated Tentacle Clowns 07:35
IM = Incontinent Manatee 06:02
SG = Squid Gymnastics 10:05
TT = Them Titties 6:25
ATM = About That Mold... 9:47
I can already tell it's going to be an album full of deep and personal lyrics.
TT = Them Titties 6:25
Lyrics by Myung.
Take Time
TA is obviously Tethered Angel. Unfortunately, they did not set her free :'(
TA is obviously Tethered Angel. Unfortunately, they did not set her free :'(
Nice first post, lol. Welcome!
Take Time
Take The
The new song titles are just reused from past song/album titles with slight modifications. :o :o :o
TA: The Astonishing
ATC: About To Crash
IM: Iew Millennium
SG: Status Geeker
TT: Train Thought
ATM: About To Mrash
I'll give a stab at it
TA= Theoretical Analysis
ATC= Antagonize The Chaos
IM= Immobilized Manipulation
SG= Secret Garden
TT= Tantalizing Theatrics
ATM= Absolute Time Machine
The new song titles are just reused from past song/album titles with slight modifications. :o :o :o
TA: The Astonishingest
I'll give a stab at it
TA= Theoretical Analysis
ATC= Antagonize The Chaos
IM= Immobilized Manipulation
SG= Secret Garden
TT= Tantalizing Theatrics
ATM= Absolute Time Machine
I like these fancy song titles. If SG ends up being called Secret Garden, my excitement for this album will greatly increase.
What are these timestamped videos that people are talking about? I really don't follow DT's social media.
This guy Noxon seems to know one thing or two more than us...
Hmmm. The schedule isn't as everyone was suggesting....?
This guy Noxon seems to know one thing or two more than us...He's a cool cool kid.
If you guys were playing a weird version of mastermind with words now, you’d get three black pins all in all…but two of those barely count due to the word type…
If you guys were playing a weird version of mastermind with words now, you’d get three black pins all in all…but two of those barely count due to the word type…
The new video is up.
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
The new video is up.
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
Epic.
A Very Fine Time To Open The Window.
Between this and Maiden, I'm excited.
The new video is up.
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
(https://compote.slate.com/images/8a5bf959-9321-4a83-b960-dad1120144ac.jpeg?width=1200&rect=1560x1040&offset=0x0)
A View From The Top Of The WorldI think you nailed it.
A View From The Top Of The World
I'm also predicting SG is Sacred Ground.
The new video is up.
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
oh shit
A View From The Top Of The World
Ok, where are these videos being psted?https://www.instagram.com/dreamtheaterworld/
The new video is up.
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
oh shit
FINALLY :metal :metal :metal
PS: Sorry Stadler for getting excited with just the track lenght and nothing more :lol
So, this is already 70 mins long... will we have one more song with the next video?
A View From The Top Of The World
I'm also predicting SG is Sacred Ground.
The new video is up.
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
oh shit
FINALLY :metal :metal :metal
PS: Sorry Stadler for getting excited with just the track lenght and nothing more :lol
So, this is already 70 mins long... will we have one more song with the next video?
Not really. The Astonishing and Distance Over Time have yet to appear on a video.So, this is already 70 mins long... will we have one more song with the next video?
I don't think so. This last video makes reference to all the previous CDs that were missing.
The new video is up.
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
oh shit
FINALLY :metal :metal :metal
PS: Sorry Stadler for getting excited with just the track lenght and nothing more :lol
So, this is already 70 mins long... will we have one more song with the next video?
I don't think so. This last video makes reference to all the previous CDs that were missing.
... continued from above:Assuming that the last slide with the initials hints at new songs, it's time to start guessing song titles:
A View From The Top Of The WorldI can almost hear the epic Petrucci solo already :lol :coolio
AVFTTOTW = Always Vote for Trump, the One True Winner 20:24You're on to something!
That's gotta be it! ;D
AVFTTOTW = Always Vote for Trump, the One True Winner 20:24You're on to something!
That's gotta be it! ;D
I don't quite have what IM and TT are yet..Well, if it indeed ends up being a concept album about Trump, those are probably "Trump Tower" and "Ivanka's Mine".
I don't quite have what IM and TT are yet..Well, if it indeed ends up being a concept album about Trump, those are probably "Trump Tower" and "Ivanka's Mine".
I saw again and you are right! So... more songs, please?Not really. The Astonishing and Distance Over Time have yet to appear on a video.So, this is already 70 mins long... will we have one more song with the next video?
I don't think so. This last video makes reference to all the previous CDs that were missing.
I don't quite have what IM and TT are yet..Well, if it indeed ends up being a concept album about Trump, those are probably "Trump Tower" and "Ivanka's Mine".
Interesting song lengths:
TA 09:32: The Apple
ATC 07:35: All The Carrots
IM 06:02: Imaginary Mango
SG 10:05: Space Garlic
TT 6:25: Tremendous Taco
ATM 9:47: About That Mango
AVFTTOTW 20:24: A Very Fine Tomato to overthrow The Watermelon.
I wonder which song will feature the 8-string?
The new video is up.
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
oh shit
FINALLY :metal :metal :metal
PS: Sorry Stadler for getting excited with just the track lenght and nothing more :lol
So, this is already 70 mins long... will we have one more song with the next video?
Makes me think the next video will lead into the reveal of DT15.
I have no idea why this thought popped up into my head, but I think it would be awesome if DT15 ended up being a 2-disc with the 2nd disc being one full song.
Now that would be damn epic having an 20 minute epic closing the first disc, and a cd length suite/song being the entire 2nd disc. :corn
... continued from above:Assuming that the last slide with the initials hints at new songs, it's time to start guessing song titles:
TA = Troll Arithmetic 09:32
ATC = Agitated Tentacle Clowns 07:35
IM = Incontinent Manatee 06:02
SG = Squid Gymnastics 10:05
TT = Them Titties 6:25
ATM = About That Mold... 9:47
AVFTTOTW = Always Vote for Trump, the One True Winner 20:24
That's gotta be it! ;D
I think that's just it, a 7 song single album. Next video will feature TA, DoT and DT15.
So the epic is about the tale of 'Tom Thumb and the Sleeping Giant'
Agreed. And a single? :cornI think that's just it, a 7 song single album. Next video will feature TA, DoT and DT15.
I’m with this. Friday’s video will probably be the last two, with a reveal of the DT15. Track listing and release date.
TA 09:32 The AscentA mountain climbing themed album ?
ATC 07:35 Above The Clouds
IM 06:02
SG 10:05 Sacred Ground
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47 At This Moment
AVFTTOTW 20:24 A View From The Top Of The World
I don't quite have what IM and TT are yet..
Just came to say that my hype level sky rocketed higher than Bezos when I saw the sign of a 20 minute song 🤯and I came to make a separate, dedicated entry in the timeline for it and added it to the thread title too.
Interesting song lengths:
TA 09:32: The Apple
ATC 07:35: All The Carrots
IM 06:02: Imaginary Mango
SG 10:05: Space Garlic
TT 6:25: Tremendous Taco
ATM 9:47: About That Mango
AVFTTOTW 20:24: A Very Fine Tomato to overthrow The Watermelon.
I wonder which song will feature the 8-string?
Hopefully they're not going to kill it with a 3-5 minute orchestral section in the middle.
Hopefully they're not going to kill it with a 3-5 minute orchestral section in the middle.
Hopefully they're not going to kill it with a 3-5 minute orchestral section in the middle.
Hopefully they're not going to kill it with a 3-5 minute orchestral section in the middle.
Man, this times infinity. :hat
Hopefully they're not going to kill it with a 3-5 minute orchestral section in the middle.
Hopefully they're not going to kill it with a 3-5 minute orchestral section in the middle.
That's the best thing about that song, for me at least. I love it when DT does things like that. I'd gladly take that beautiful string interlude over an 20+ minute progressive onslaught with a predictable form/structure, as that has been done so many times by so many bands.
Hopefully they're not going to kill it with a 3-5 minute orchestral section in the middle.
Man, this times infinity. :hat
It's likely they use that orchestrated part to catch their breath. The rest of the song is absolutely BRUTAL for all members.
I could see that. Arranging it to give them that nice break before the onslaught of Live, Die, Kill. Also to give JLB the necessary break to belt out those vocals live.
No, The Pursuit Of Truth. Live Die Kill appears before the orchestral middle movement.Hopefully they're not going to kill it with a 3-5 minute orchestral section in the middle.
Man, this times infinity. :hat
It's likely they use that orchestrated part to catch their breath. The rest of the song is absolutely BRUTAL for all members.
I could see that. Arranging it to give them that nice break before the onslaught of Live, Die, Kill. Also to give JLB the necessary break to belt out those vocals live.
No, The Pursuit Of Truth. Live Die Kill appears before the orchestral middle movement.Hopefully they're not going to kill it with a 3-5 minute orchestral section in the middle.
Man, this times infinity. :hat
It's likely they use that orchestrated part to catch their breath. The rest of the song is absolutely BRUTAL for all members.
I could see that. Arranging it to give them that nice break before the onslaught of Live, Die, Kill. Also to give JLB the necessary break to belt out those vocals live.
Interesting song lengths:Relevant: https://youtu.be/uXGQnc_y-10
TA 09:32: The Apple
ATC 07:35: All The Carrots
IM 06:02: Imaginary Mango
SG 10:05: Space Garlic
TT 6:25: Tremendous Taco
ATM 9:47: About That Mango
AVFTTOTW 20:24: A Very Fine Tomato to overthrow The Watermelon.
Imagine it's a 7 minutes song with 12 minutes of silence and then 1 minute of noodling to end the album :D
I wonder if this is the order the songs will be sequenced in or if that’ll actually be different. Starting the album out with a 9.5 minute long track would be a pretty sweet change from the last few albums.
It would be pretty relentless if a song went on for 20 minutes with the same energy, or ever increasing energy throughout. All of the DT epics have breaks in them throughout the songs that lead into new sections, some earlier, some later... Don't get why this is something to freak out over...
Hopefully they're not going to kill it with a 3-5 minute orchestral section in the middle.
That's the best thing about that song, for me at least. I love it when DT does things like that. I'd gladly take that beautiful string interlude over an 20+ minute progressive onslaught with a predictable form/structure, as that has been done so many times by so many bands.
Plus, consider the fact that ACOS had the chance to mature over 5 years of development, with sections cut and sections added throughout to make it what it is now...
Epic.
A Very Fine Time To Open The Window.
Between this and Maiden, I'm excited.
Post-COVID19
It would be pretty relentless if a song went on for 20 minutes with the same energy, or ever increasing energy throughout. All of the DT epics have breaks in them throughout the songs that lead into new sections, some earlier, some later... Don't get why this is something to freak out over...
Illumination Theory's ambient break is completely detached from the song they stuck it in. I find no melodic, rhythmic or any other musical reference to anything. It's completely out of context. There is nothing wrong with the part itself. In fact, it's quite beautiful. But jamming into the middle of that song? Bad idea because it's completely out of context.
It would be pretty relentless if a song went on for 20 minutes with the same energy, or ever increasing energy throughout. All of the DT epics have breaks in them throughout the songs that lead into new sections, some earlier, some later... Don't get why this is something to freak out over...
I think we all recognize that most epics have ebbs and flows in the energy of the song. That's not the problem with Illumination Theory. The problem with Illumination Theory is one of context, or more precisely an utter and complete lack of context. Allow me to explain: If you listen to The Count of Tuscany, the low ambient section with the guitar volume swell melodies is actually a well-crafted ambient break in the song that references melodic ideas from earlier in the piece. In that context it works rather fluidly and feels very organic.
Illumination Theory's ambient break is completely detached from the song they stuck it in. I find no melodic, rhythmic or any other musical reference to anything. It's completely out of context. There is nothing wrong with the part itself. In fact, it's quite beautiful. But jamming into the middle of that song? Bad idea because it's completely out of context.
Illumination Theory's ambient break is completely detached from the song they stuck it in. I find no melodic, rhythmic or any other musical reference to anything. It's completely out of context. There is nothing wrong with the part itself. In fact, it's quite beautiful. But jamming into the middle of that song? Bad idea because it's completely out of context.
...Other than a direct reference to the very first melody in the song? That is, if you're including the orchestral part here, too.
I never picked up on that at all. I'll give it another listen tonight. And no, what I'm saying is the Orchestral part is a completely stand-a-lone piece that derives none of its melodic content from anything that came before it or comes after it, which is why to me it sounds so out of context.
I never picked up on that at all. I'll give it another listen tonight. And no, what I'm saying is the Orchestral part is a completely stand-a-lone piece that derives none of its melodic content from anything that came before it or comes after it, which is why to me it sounds so out of context.
I ask as I'd consider the ambient and orchestral parts to be separate because there's a fair few minutes of chimes and such that acts as a cool down before the orchestra builds the texture back up to something more melodic (which imo makes sense, given that the prior 7 or so mins before the ambient section is extremely dense in terms of musical content). But yeah, take a listen to the first minute or so of the song and then listen out for the climax of the orchestral section. It's the exact same melody (it's that Tchaikovsky style thing) and when I hear it, it feels very deliberately placed in relation to the rest of the track.
My personal guesses:
Turn Around
:rollinMy personal guesses:
Turn Around
A DT cover of Total Eclipse of the Heart with a hysterical JP on vocals (Spirit Carries On outtake-style) is something I'd pay deluxe edition prices for.
AVFTTOTW = Always Vote for Trump, the One True Winner 20:24You're on to something!
That's gotta be it! ;D
Yep, what a nugget! :laugh:
AVFTTOTW = Always Vote for Trump, the One True Winner 20:24You're on to something!
That's gotta be it! ;D
Yep, what a nugget! :laugh:
OMG.... Dream Theater... DT... Donald Trump.
It all makes sense.
-Marc.
What do we reckon then chaps?
Another video today? More tracks (or bonus?)?
Tracklisting / title / artwork reveal?
What do we reckon then chaps?
Another video today? More tracks (or bonus?)?
Tracklisting / title / artwork reveal?
The pattern seems to be very clear: another video today with the two missing albums (TA and D/T) and hopefully the new one to come full circle (quote intended).
My guess is that we'll have all the details today but no single: cover, title, full tracklist, release date and maybe a date for the first single.
NO SAPPY 3-4 MINUTE BALLAD AS THE 2ND-TO-LAST SONG :metal :metal :metalOh, I hope we do.
...Hopefully that doesn't mean we're getting a 9 minute sappy ballad as the 2nd-to-last song. :lol
A guy on reddit says the album title is
View From The Top Of The World
NO SAPPY 3-4 MINUTE BALLAD AS THE 2ND-TO-LAST SONG :metal :metal :metalOh, I hope we do.
...Hopefully that doesn't mean we're getting a 9 minute sappy ballad as the 2nd-to-last song. :lol
A guy on reddit says the album title is
View From The Top Of The World
A guy on reddit says the album title is
View From The Top Of The World
For a song title, that’s cool. But as an album title, I hope not. It’ll be competing with SDOIT as biggest mouthful.
If that guy actually works at a pressing plant for viny, he'll be easily tracked down, and will probably lose his job for this. Hope it was worth it for him...
Well if Noxon is taking it seriously…
Well if Noxon is taking it seriously…
I assume that we are getting the official information in about twenty minutes...
I assume that we are getting the official information in about twenty minutes...
Wait for it. :P :lolI assume that we are getting the official information in about twenty minutes...
Guess not? :lol
-Marc.
They literally just made an announcement for another LNF archives. Not sure if this will affect the chances of anything else coming today...
They literally just made an announcement for another LNF archives. Not sure if this will affect the chances of anything else coming today...
Agreed. Don't think they're going to release title/tracklist today... Hope I'm wrong.
They literally just made an announcement for another LNF archives. Not sure if this will affect the chances of anything else coming today...
Agreed. Don't think they're going to release title/tracklist today... Hope I'm wrong.
What a horrible, HORRIBLE avatar. Can you change it please? I'm offended.
All will be revealed July 28th!
https://fb.watch/6WH-OefS-v/
Don't like the drum sound in that clip.
Alright. How can we match these -
👽🤙📞🕶🧟♂️💤💆🏻♂️🧍🏻♂️⌛️⏳⏰🚨🧛🏻♂️👁🧗♂️🌎
To these -
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
-Marc.
Don't like the drum sound in that clip.
Me neither, I can't believe they thought hard-cutting the snare hits mid-reverb was a good idea! I bet the whole album will be like that!
...I'll wait for more than 1 second of drums to form an opinion.
Alright. How can we match these -
👽🤙📞🕶🧟♂️💤💆🏻♂️🧍🏻♂️⌛️⏳⏰🚨🧛🏻♂️👁🧗♂️🌎
To these -
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
-Marc.
Assuming the two hourglasses are for the "TT" track, I think maybe that one's "Time Travel", or "Time Traveller", or something like that.
Assuming the two hourglasses are for the "TT" track, I think maybe that one's "Time Travel", or "Time Traveller", or something like that.
Definitely Take (the) Time
Assuming the two hourglasses are for the "TT" track, I think maybe that one's "Time Travel", or "Time Traveller", or something like that.
Definitely Take (the) Time
Answer the Call is my bet :tupAlright. How can we match these -
👽🤙📞🕶🧟♂️💤💆🏻♂️🧍🏻♂️⌛️⏳⏰🚨🧛🏻♂️👁🧗♂️🌎
To these -
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
-Marc.
ATC= Answer The Call?
Edit: A Telephone Call makes more sense.
IM - invisible monster.
Those glasses are the classic presentation of the Invisible Man.
Where did the icons come from?? Did I miss this in the video? I am pretty lame at this stuff, so I wouldn't be surprised. :blush
Alright. How can we match these -
👽🤙📞🕶🧟♂️💤💆🏻♂️🧍🏻♂️⌛️⏳⏰🚨🧛🏻♂️👁🧗♂️🌎
To these -
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
-Marc.
Alright. How can we match these -
👽🤙📞🕶🧟♂️💤💆🏻♂️🧍🏻♂️⌛️⏳⏰🚨🧛🏻♂️👁🧗♂️🌎
To these -
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
-Marc.
I remember thinking some of the song titles on Distance Over Time were weird and unusual for what Dream Theater's song titles are usually like. If these emotes and song title guesses are anything to go by, this album could end up having even weirder names! Not that I consider it a bad thing, it just might take some getting used to them.
I remember thinking some of the song titles on Distance Over Time were weird and unusual for what Dream Theater's song titles are usually like. If these emotes and song title guesses are anything to go by, this album could end up having even weirder names! Not that I consider it a bad thing, it just might take some getting used to them.
Nothing weirder than "Barstool Warrior" imo :rollin
1 second of drums
Dream Theater fan: I didn't like it.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Most important: will they sell these red plastic look-through-thingies from the videos? I need one of those.
Dream Theater - View from the Top of the WorldI think this is the one. Maybe something different for TT though, someone mentioned "Time Traveler"
1. The Alien - 9:32
2. Answer the Call - 7:35
3. Invisible Monster - 6:02
4. Sleeping Giant - 10:05
5. The Times - 6:25
6. Alert the Masses - 9:47
7. A View from the Top of the World - 20:24
Most important: will they sell these red plastic look-through-thingies from the videos? I need one of those.
They are called "View-Master" and the inserts are "reels". I had one when I was a kid. They were very cool. I would TOTALLY buy the DT ViewMaster!
I wonder if lyric duties were split up relatively even this time like on DoT or if JP did most of them again?
Most important: will they sell these red plastic look-through-thingies from the videos? I need one of those.
Alright. How can we match these -
👽🤙📞🕶🧟♂️💤💆🏻♂️🧍🏻♂️⌛️⏳⏰🚨🧛🏻♂️👁🧗♂️🌎
To these -
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
-Marc.
1 second of drums
Dream Theater fan: I didn't like it.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Some things never change, don't they?
Drums isolated from the rest of the album's audio, even.
This may have been answered already, but why is this being promoted on Dream Theater World instead of the official Dream Theater page? I’ve never heard of the Dream Theater World page before.
Seems a bit odd.
This may have been answered already, but why is this being promoted on Dream Theater World instead of the official Dream Theater page? I’ve never heard of the Dream Theater World page before.
Seems a bit odd.
Dream Theater World is the official DT fanclub, which is run by Noxon.
As it happened with DOT, he’s involved in these “Games”, and i guess is mutual interest to give the page a little extra exposure.
Maybe TA is not as literal as the emoji and it stands for “The Abduction” or “The Arrival”, etc… I’m getting super pumped about this album.The Arrival was a very original movie about aliens and very deep.
Maybe TA is not as literal as the emoji and it stands for “The Abduction” or “The Arrival”, etc… I’m getting super pumped about this album.
All will be revealed July 28th!
https://fb.watch/6WH-OefS-v/
:metal
So assuming July 28th announcement, and maybe July 30th for a single with a late September or early October album release.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115571/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3Maybe TA is not as literal as the emoji and it stands for “The Abduction” or “The Arrival”, etc… I’m getting super pumped about this album.The Arrival was a very original movie about aliens and very deep.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115571/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3Maybe TA is not as literal as the emoji and it stands for “The Abduction” or “The Arrival”, etc… I’m getting super pumped about this album.The Arrival was a very original movie about aliens and very deep.
While I enjoyed The Arrival as a somewhat cheesy but still fun movie, I wouldn't call it original or very deep!
Yes I realize you're speaking about the movie Arrival (no "the" in the title) with Jeremy Renner and Amy Adams - just gotta have a little fun with ya devieira73!
While I enjoyed The Arrival as a somewhat cheesy but still fun movie, I wouldn't call it original or very deep!0:06 the guy typing on the keyboard WTF :lol
Yes I realize you're speaking about the movie Arrival (no "the" in the title) with Jeremy Renner and Amy Adams - just gotta have a little fun with ya devieira73!
Invisible Monsters is a novel by Fight Club author Chuck Palahniuk about an ex-supermodel who has no jaw.
But "The Alien" or "The Abduction", "Alert something"? I don't know, just a thought...
Invisible Monsters is a novel by Fight Club author Chuck Palahniuk about an ex-supermodel who has no jaw.
Well, there they are, but of course I was aiming for official DT merch. I remember having a similar thing back in the days shaped like a tiny TV set, only you couldn't exchange the set of pictures.Most important: will they sell these red plastic look-through-thingies from the videos? I need one of those.
https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=viewmaster&ref=nb_sb_noss
But "The Alien" or "The Abduction", "Alert something"? I don't know, just a thought...
I think that's just an issue with our guesses, not the post. :lol
I think The Arrival & Awaken The Monster sound a lot more DT-y
Awaken The Monster sounds like something from Systematic Chaos. Like a cousin to The Dark Eternal Night.and a vampire emoji, Forsaken II ;D
Would be nice if the album is indeed based on a couple of tales and 1 view master disc per song / tale & a viewmaster along the album as a limited box feature. Functioning as the album booklet.
So what do we think is the first single? I'm thinking ATC (Answer the Call)
So what do we think is the first single? I'm thinking ATC (Answer the Call)I guess not, because it has mostly been the usual IO strategy to have the opening piece of an album be the first piece of music we hear. If you remember, we were teased with Untethered Angel at the end of the first ARG in 2018 and that was the first piece we heard from D/T, so I guess TA will be the first single.
So what do we think is the first single? I'm thinking ATC (Answer the Call)I guess not, because it has mostly been the usual IO strategy to have the opening piece of an album be the first piece of music we hear. If you remember, we were teased with Untethered Angel at the end of the first ARG in 2018 and that was the first piece we heard from D/T, so I guess TA will be the first single.
So what do we think is the first single? I'm thinking ATC (Answer the Call)I guess not, because it has mostly been the usual IO strategy to have the opening piece of an album be the first piece of music we hear. If you remember, we were teased with Untethered Angel at the end of the first ARG in 2018 and that was the first piece we heard from D/T, so I guess TA will be the first single.
Not necessarily. For LTE3, the first single was The Passage of Time. Though we did get Hypersonic a little later.
On another note, personally I'd love if they only had one single instead of three. I don't want to hear almost half the album before it's even out
Simple solution; don't listen to any of the released tracks until you have the album as a whole...Lol who has time for self control?
Simple solution; don't listen to any of the released tracks until you have the album as a whole...Lol who has time for self control?
Simple solution; don't listen to any of the released tracks until you have the album as a whole...
Simple solution; don't listen to any of the released tracks until you have the album as a whole...
I’d love to but that would require an insane amount of self-control.
True, altho the initial teaser we got (before the first single) was in fact an excerpt of Hypersonic.Not necessarily. For LTE3, the first single was The Passage of Time. Though we did get Hypersonic a little later.So what do we think is the first single? I'm thinking ATC (Answer the Call)I guess not, because it has mostly been the usual IO strategy to have the opening piece of an album be the first piece of music we hear. If you remember, we were teased with Untethered Angel at the end of the first ARG in 2018 and that was the first piece we heard from D/T, so I guess TA will be the first single.
That was a big problem with Black Clouds. We heard AROP and I think Wither or ANTR before the album was out and it's only 6 tracks long. So you've already heard 33% of the entire album.I don't believe so - pretty sure only ARoP. MP only added ANtR to the setlists of the European warmup tour beginning on June 30, a week after BCaSL was released. Had it been released as a single before the album's release, then you can be sure it would've been featured in the setlists before the album's release, too. What you're probably thinking of are the different covers on the bonus CD that were released one each week up until the album's release.
Wither and Rite for BC/SL yes, because these two had videoclips for them.Yes, Wither was released as a single, but later -
Simple solution; don't listen to any of the released tracks until you have the album as a whole...You mean people should have self-control?!?!?!? :omg:
That was a big problem with Black Clouds. We heard AROP and I think Wither or ANTR before the album was out and it's only 6 tracks long. So you've already heard 33% of the entire album.
That was a big problem with Black Clouds. We heard AROP and I think Wither or ANTR before the album was out and it's only 6 tracks long. So you've already heard 33% of the entire album.
Eh, not really. That's kind of like saying if you've listened to Circumstances and The Trees, you've listened to half of Hemispheres. Wither (which we can probably disregard anyway, given that it wasn't a single until after the album's release) and A Rite of Passage were 13 minutes out of a 75 minute album where the other four tracks pretty much had the musical content of multiple "normal" songs. 5 and 19 minute songs aren't really equals in this context. Untethered Angel and Fall Into the Light actually take up much more time proportionally on Distance Over Time, especially with Paralyzed added in.
So what do we think is the first single? I'm thinking ATC (Answer the Call)I guess not, because it has mostly been the usual IO strategy to have the opening piece of an album be the first piece of music we hear. If you remember, we were teased with Untethered Angel at the end of the first ARG in 2018 and that was the first piece we heard from D/T, so I guess TA will be the first single.
Not necessarily. For LTE3, the first single was The Passage of Time. Though we did get Hypersonic a little later.
On another note, personally I'd love if they only had one single instead of three. I don't want to hear almost half the album before it's even out
That was a big problem with Black Clouds. We heard AROP and I think Wither or ANTR before the album was out and it's only 6 tracks long. So you've already heard 33% of the entire album.
But if you weren't a fan of the other tracks and didn't listen to them that much, then it didn't matter if they were 20 minutes or 3 minutes long.
Simple solution; don't listen to any of the released tracks until you have the album as a whole...
I’d love to but that would require an insane amount of self-control.
When a new DT single comes out, I usually listen to it 1000x for a few weeks :lol I feel your pain.
I went in blind with all the latest DT albums. Made a point to not hear a single note beforehand. It's not that hard, especially if you resist the first day or so - if the new song is out and you don't listen to it, then after a couple of day it's easier to carry on as nothing happened.
I went in blind with all the latest DT albums. Made a point to not hear a single note beforehand. It's not that hard, especially if you resist the first day or so - if the new song is out and you don't listen to it, then after a couple of day it's easier to carry on as nothing happened.
In an interview on Prog Rock Digital, James said the US tour will start at the end of October :metal
This means that DT15 will be released between late September and early October :coolio
I went in blind with all the latest DT albums. Made a point to not hear a single note beforehand. It's not that hard, especially if you resist the first day or so - if the new song is out and you don't listen to it, then after a couple of day it's easier to carry on as nothing happened.
I guess someone of the forum tried something : https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2653197374981116&id=1636352113332319&__cft__[0]=AZUr9c02whqikOLP69vSadMKWcHyJiME3IlHjxcRMfIBPjX_TUhN4Ul96iuihkE5kH6MiVtnmZtCw93JjOsoo084nEIBYT2CE29R31D0WeTQ88YmcGcKCGPx4eF8A4w3Wr6ZQrsbVq42l12hUUODWvw4&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R
:D
I don't know why the DT fanbase hates so much Hugh Syme's work, I like his graphics even if sometimes they seem a little bit... Paint-ish.Personally, I really do like a lot of Syme's work. I think he has some amazing ideas. My biggest issue is the execution of his work - over the years, he seems to have gotten a bit sloppy. And now with stock photography becoming so prevalent, his constant reliance on using it.
No one from the band has said anything about DT15 being a concept album,but...
Is it only me that i think their song titles are part of a greater whole?
If not a SFAM type of concept,at least a thematic Octavarium-like album.
No one from the band has said anything about DT15 being a concept album,but...I have the same feeling too. I'm guessing that it's not going to be a concept album in the traditional sense of the term, but rather a collection of songs/tales that somehow they connect with a certain theme or idea. JP is invested in a style of storytelling with his lyrics approach so why not..we'll see.
Is it only me that i think their song titles are part of a greater whole?
If not a SFAM type of concept,at least a thematic Octavarium-like album.
(https://scontent-lhr8-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/224681667_543829293730356_6036850362140320990_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=340051&_nc_ohc=wmlUCUIlkREAX-re2Uf&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-2.xx&oh=0f417afcc0d1416aa4e2ab884a8462e2&oe=61227219)
Notably, the page for this has the rest of the image: https://iconmusiccenter.com/concerts/2021/12/dream-theater
(https://scontent-lhr8-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/224681667_543829293730356_6036850362140320990_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=340051&_nc_ohc=wmlUCUIlkREAX-re2Uf&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-2.xx&oh=0f417afcc0d1416aa4e2ab884a8462e2&oe=61227219)
Seems like spoilers came from the official DT page this time? Hope they move the info release to today :P
It seems Somewhere Else's Marillion album cover.
Arch Echo is a hell of a band. A lot of people will dig them. I’m a huge fan of them and will not miss bill at all.
Well, this is the same "fiasco" as with The Astonishing, where the tour dates announcement spoiled the album title. Coordination is not really a thing, uh?
Photo is legit, I've found another one for another date of the tour
https://wmmr.com/contests/dream-theater-the-met-21/#//
Well, this is the same "fiasco" as with The Astonishing, where the tour dates announcement spoiled the album title. Coordination is not really a thing, uh?
My excitement is now mixed with some disappointment...sharing 3 hours of music with some other band. :'( I am not really surprised, but since I a late to the game I selfishly want only DT at the concert. Of course this also means less selection of material.
I mean, let's just remember that even the "normal tours" can still go up to nearly two hours, which is still a pretty sizable amount of material (plus, we're probably not going to get another anniversary tour, which means that there'd likely be a bit more album variety and the most free space in about six years). We've got to remember that it's been a long time since they last toured, going straight into maximum length shows would be a bit of an unfair trial by fire.
My excitement is now mixed with some disappointment...sharing 3 hours of music with some other band. :'( I am not really surprised, but since I a late to the game I selfishly want only DT at the concert. Of course this also means less selection of material.I feel for you. But to be honest, I don't believe the Evening With shows that DT's done in the MM-era have ever truly been 3 hours, unless you want to include the 15-20 minute intermission. At most they've been about 2 hours, 45 minutes w/o the intermission.
Which is why they should just make the announcement today, since the info is already spreading anyway.
With DoT, I listened to the singles A LOT, it really affected the way I listened to the whole album afterwards. It seemed like those songs didn't fit the rest of the album.
I tried something different with a recent release, Haken's Virus. I listened to the three singles only a couple of times out of curiosity and "saved" the rest for when the album came out. It actually worked really well! I was only left with a few memories I had of the songs and they didn't feel worn out when the whole thing was out. Gonna try this with DT15. But it is a lot of self control not to listen the songs over and over, yes. To those who don't suffer anymore, I admire you :lol
Well, this is the same "fiasco" as with The Astonishing, where the tour dates announcement spoiled the album title. Coordination is not really a thing, uh?
The bigger fiasco with The Astonishing was that it existed in the first place.
My excitement is now mixed with some disappointment...sharing 3 hours of music with some other band. :'( I am not really surprised, but since I a late to the game I selfishly want only DT at the concert. Of course this also means less selection of material.I feel for you. But to be honest, I don't believe the Evening With shows that DT's done in the MM-era have ever truly been 3 hours, unless you want to include the 15-20 minute intermission. At most they've been about 2 hours, 45 minutes w/o the intermission.
That said, I'd rather have Evening With shows than a show with an opening band, but what can you do? At the very least, I hope they'll shake up the setlist so that most of their albums get represented and that they'll alternate 4-6 songs between shows like they did on the Dramatic tour.
I would say DOT at 56 mins is a *very* tight album, by DT standards
So the album is called "Top Of The World" ???
:-\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdDW2CErekM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdDW2CErekM)
So the album is called "Top Of The World" ???
:-\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdDW2CErekM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdDW2CErekM)
Maybe wait until the actual announcement?
Well, this is the same "fiasco" as with The Astonishing, where the tour dates announcement spoiled the album title. Coordination is not really a thing, uh?
The bigger fiasco with The Astonishing was that it existed in the first place.
Tell that to whomever posted the pic of the little guy standing on a telescope, the kind you see on top of skyscrapers.
So the album is called "Top Of The World" ???
:-\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdDW2CErekM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdDW2CErekM)
A venue in Portland has posted on Facebook that Dream Theater will be there with the dates Nov 2-Nov 13….so something is screwyThe Ticketmaster site said the Paramount Theater Nov 4th.
Tell that to whomever posted the pic of the little guy standing on a telescope, the kind you see on top of skyscrapers.
Many of the tours don't use the album name directly or use it in an altered form, so that's beside the point.
So the album is called "Top Of The World" ???
:-\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdDW2CErekM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdDW2CErekM)
nope, we know what the tour is called not the album.
Touring into Infinity, Waking up the World etc weren't the album titles.
A venue in Portland has posted on Facebook that Dream Theater will be there with the dates Nov 2-Nov 13….so something is screwyThe Ticketmaster site said the Paramount Theater Nov 4th.
A venue in Portland has posted on Facebook that Dream Theater will be there with the dates Nov 2-Nov 13….so something is screwyMaybe they'll be doing their tour rehearsals there! :justjen
A venue in Portland has posted on Facebook that Dream Theater will be there with the dates Nov 2-Nov 13….so something is screwyMaybe they'll be doing their tour rehearsals there! :justjen
What else could the album be called if it's The Top of the World Tour? Sitting On Top of the World? Flying to the Top Of The World? Spinning My Top Of The World?
What else could the album be called if it's The Top of the World Tour? Sitting On Top of the World? Flying to the Top Of The World? Spinning My Top Of The World?
I'd assume the album will be named after the closing epic, "A View From The Top Of The World".
-Marc.
Um,, YEAH! Long overdue. :metalA venue in Portland has posted on Facebook that Dream Theater will be there with the dates Nov 2-Nov 13….so something is screwyThe Ticketmaster site said the Paramount Theater Nov 4th.
Seattle Nov 4th. Should make lots of people happy!
Well....there is this from a few minutes ago!Yeah, we kinda know… /s
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-teases-new-album/
Progressive metal giants DREAM THEATER will reveal the details of their upcoming album on Wednesday, July 28.
The band's fan club has been sharing a series of teasers revealing the lengths and acronyms of all the songs that are set to appear on the follow-up to 2019's "Distance Over Time". They are as follows:
* TA (09:32)
* ATC (07:35)
* IM (06:02)
* SG (10:05)
* TT (06:25)
* ATM (09:47)
* AVFTTOTW (20:24)
Yeah, we kinda know… /s
Well, this is the same "fiasco" as with The Astonishing, where the tour dates announcement spoiled the album title. Coordination is not really a thing, uh?
The bigger fiasco with The Astonishing was that it existed in the first place.
now they're getting longer again.
I sure hope the new cornholio variant doesn't put the kibosh on this tour.. sorry, had to say it.. :-\
Something like that.. :lol
Yeah, we kinda know… /s
Really? This is the first I've come across it. I don't hang here all that often.
Just checked out 2 Arch Echo songs. No vocals. Instrumental band?
Anyhoo, always an exciting time when new DT music is on the horizon.
Just checked out 2 Arch Echo songs. No vocals. Instrumental band?
Anyhoo, always an exciting time when new DT music is on the horizon.
"To stretch beyond our limits
To blaze a brand new trail
Bold enough to conquer
Brave enough to fail"
Quote"To stretch beyond our limits
To blaze a brand new trail
Bold enough to conquer
Brave enough to fail"
They just Scream Myung lyrics.
Didn't pick up on the 15, but that's pretty cool. I like the artwork a lot.A huge step up from the d/t cover. A have a feeling this new album is gonna be very melodic and positive. :coolio
Reminds me of a section from illumination Theory.Quote"To stretch beyond our limits
To blaze a brand new trail
Bold enough to conquer
Brave enough to fail"
They just Scream Myung lyrics.
I was thinking that too. Or maybe another collaboration between JP and JM., like BAI, S2N, and FITL.
-Marc.
I'm looking forward to getting all the officially official info on Wednesday. And maybe an album trailer / In The Studio making of Trailer etc etc...
:D
Look ar what you saw in our teasers… what was a recurring thing?
Look ar what you saw in our teasers… what was a recurring thing?
Didn't pick up on the 15, but that's pretty cool. I like the artwork a lot.A huge step up from the d/t cover. A have a feeling this new album is gonna be very melodic and positive. :coolio
The guy on the reddit page, who supposedly had access to the vinyl before hand, implied that the album is called "View From The Top of the World".
I think it's a possibility the song is called "A View From..." and the album is only "View From...", like in "The Astonishing" (album) and "Astonishing" (song).
Look ar what you saw in our teasers… what was a recurring thing?What comes to mind for me is that every photo was an out of context closeup of some bit of album art.
I'm definitely more excited for this than for D/T, most likely because of the longer songs. heh.
Look ar what you saw in our teasers… what was a recurring thing?What comes to mind for me is that every photo was an out of context closeup of some bit of album art.
I see we are finally coming back down to Earth in the Album Covers Meta story theme I can see happening with the album covers.I like you're take! :tup Except for the Out of Reach part. That song is just about a hot chick that some dude is pining over who is obviously out of his league.. :lol
Since, Black Clouds and Silver Linings, each album cover has been telling some sort of story. As the door opens, we witness a circus clown on a unicycle riding a tightrope about to snap high above the clouds as a plane passes by. Apparently he gets by okay, as we "cross the bridges in the sky" "breaking all illusions" out into space. Peering through "The Looking Glass" we see Planet Earth, beautiful and illuminating. We come across a distant future dystopian world where "People just don't have the time for music anymore, and no one seems to care." This world is ruled by a Nefarious leader who rules over The Great Northern Empire with his Noise Machines. "The savior in the square" reunites the empire while his brother succumbs to fate, along with the Rulers son. The Great Northern Empire becomes Astonishing again. We now become "Untethered Angels falling into darkness" as we descend into a world ruled by machines, as the cover indicates Machine has now ruled over man, have the NOMACS conquered the humans in The Astonishing (?)...After receiving a signal, we have acquired a connection back home. Being "Out of Reach" and so far away "At Wit's End", we navigate circling back seeing Earth as a "Pale Blue Dot", all that "Ever is and ever was" for humans lies within that single dot.
IF this is the album cover. We now arrive back on Earth, with A View From The Top Of The World.
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
:corn
I'm definitely more excited for this than for D/T, most likely because of the longer songs. heh.
The shortest song is TT at 6:25 compared to Paralyzed at 4:47 on D/T. There are 10 songs on D/T and 7 on "A View From The Top of The World (?)" D/T is also only 57 minutes long minus Viper King, I would still consider it 61 minutes long because I don't know anyone who has a copy without Viper King. "AVFTTOTW" has Three songs around the 10 minute mark, Three around 6 minutes, and one 20 min Epic. That's about 70 minutes worth of music. 10 minutes more than D/T. That's another 10 minute song you could add to D/T to make it equal to the "AVFTTOTW" total album time.
We are getting more music than we did on D/T, and that's including it having longer songs, only 7 songs, and one being a 20-min epic. That's why I am excited, and if their enthusiasm in the interviews are to go off on, I am just as excited.
If that is the album cover, than that makes me more enthused about the album, as sometimes the album cover really does describe how the album sounds. A great example is the album art to Grace Under Pressure.
I'm definitely more excited for this than for D/T, most likely because of the longer songs. heh.
I am also wondering if the pictures with the time stamps are referencing songs from the albums...
Afterlife
Metropolis
Caught In A Web
Peruvian Skies
The Dance of Eternity (And :rollin at the reference to the misheard lyric in Metropolis Pt.1, "death is the first dancing turtle")
The Great Debate
Stream of Consciousness
Octavarium
In The Presence of Enemies/The Dark Eternal Night (?)
The Count of Tuscany
Bridges In The Sky
Engima Machine
Heavens Cove (this doesn't have the tracklistings)
S2N
The written plaque on the viewfinder in the slide after the piano octave picture is different than what is written on the tour flyers.
I see we are finally coming back down to Earth in the Album Covers Meta story theme I can see happening with the album covers.I like you're take! :tup Except for the Out of Reach part. That song is just about a hot chick that some dude is pining over who is obviously out of his league.. :lol
Since, Black Clouds and Silver Linings, each album cover has been telling some sort of story. As the door opens, we witness a circus clown on a unicycle riding a tightrope about to snap high above the clouds as a plane passes by. Apparently he gets by okay, as we "cross the bridges in the sky" "breaking all illusions" out into space. Peering through "The Looking Glass" we see Planet Earth, beautiful and illuminating. We come across a distant future dystopian world where "People just don't have the time for music anymore, and no one seems to care." This world is ruled by a Nefarious leader who rules over The Great Northern Empire with his Noise Machines. "The savior in the square" reunites the empire while his brother succumbs to fate, along with the Rulers son. The Great Northern Empire becomes Astonishing again. We now become "Untethered Angels falling into darkness" as we descend into a world ruled by machines, as the cover indicates Machine has now ruled over man, have the NOMACS conquered the humans in The Astonishing (?)...After receiving a signal, we have acquired a connection back home. Being "Out of Reach" and so far away "At Wit's End", we navigate circling back seeing Earth as a "Pale Blue Dot", all that "Ever is and ever was" for humans lies within that single dot.
IF this is the album cover. We now arrive back on Earth, with A View From The Top Of The World.
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
:corn
I'm definitely more excited for this than for D/T, most likely because of the longer songs. heh.
The shortest song is TT at 6:25 compared to Paralyzed at 4:47 on D/T. There are 10 songs on D/T and 7 on "A View From The Top of The World (?)" D/T is also only 57 minutes long minus Viper King, I would still consider it 61 minutes long because I don't know anyone who has a copy without Viper King. "AVFTTOTW" has Three songs around the 10 minute mark, Three around 6 minutes, and one 20 min Epic. That's about 70 minutes worth of music. 10 minutes more than D/T. That's another 10 minute song you could add to D/T to make it equal to the "AVFTTOTW" total album time.
We are getting more music than we did on D/T, and that's including it having longer songs, only 7 songs, and one being a 20-min epic. That's why I am excited, and if their enthusiasm in the interviews are to go off on, I am just as excited.
If that is the album cover, than that makes me more enthused about the album, as sometimes the album cover really does describe how the album sounds. A great example is the album art to Grace Under Pressure.
uM aCtUaLlY Paralyzed is 4:17 & the shortest song on D/T is Out Of Reach at 4:04 smh get it right
I am also wondering if the pictures with the time stamps are referencing songs from the albums...
Afterlife
Metropolis
Caught In A Web
Peruvian Skies
The Dance of Eternity (And :rollin at the reference to the misheard lyric in Metropolis Pt.1, "death is the first dancing turtle")
The Great Debate
Stream of Consciousness
Octavarium
In The Presence of Enemies/The Dark Eternal Night (?)
The Count of Tuscany
Bridges In The Sky
Engima Machine
Heavens Cove (this doesn't have the tracklistings)
S2N
The written plaque on the viewfinder in the slide after the piano octave picture is different than what is written on the tour flyers.
That's pretty much spot on as for what I had in mind when I scripted the teaser campaign...
Yeah, but by that time she might be a divorcee raging alcoholic with four kids living off the state. :facepalm:I see we are finally coming back down to Earth in the Album Covers Meta story theme I can see happening with the album covers.I like you're take! :tup Except for the Out of Reach part. That song is just about a hot chick that some dude is pining over who is obviously out of his league.. :lol
Since, Black Clouds and Silver Linings, each album cover has been telling some sort of story. As the door opens, we witness a circus clown on a unicycle riding a tightrope about to snap high above the clouds as a plane passes by. Apparently he gets by okay, as we "cross the bridges in the sky" "breaking all illusions" out into space. Peering through "The Looking Glass" we see Planet Earth, beautiful and illuminating. We come across a distant future dystopian world where "People just don't have the time for music anymore, and no one seems to care." This world is ruled by a Nefarious leader who rules over The Great Northern Empire with his Noise Machines. "The savior in the square" reunites the empire while his brother succumbs to fate, along with the Rulers son. The Great Northern Empire becomes Astonishing again. We now become "Untethered Angels falling into darkness" as we descend into a world ruled by machines, as the cover indicates Machine has now ruled over man, have the NOMACS conquered the humans in The Astonishing (?)...After receiving a signal, we have acquired a connection back home. Being "Out of Reach" and so far away "At Wit's End", we navigate circling back seeing Earth as a "Pale Blue Dot", all that "Ever is and ever was" for humans lies within that single dot.
IF this is the album cover. We now arrive back on Earth, with A View From The Top Of The World.
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
:corn
Exactly, one of the "We" misses this hot chick so much that when he returns she won't be out of reach anymore. :lol
You're making me think we're still missing something. :justjenI am also wondering if the pictures with the time stamps are referencing songs from the albums...
Afterlife
Metropolis
Caught In A Web
Peruvian Skies
The Dance of Eternity (And :rollin at the reference to the misheard lyric in Metropolis Pt.1, "death is the first dancing turtle")
The Great Debate
Stream of Consciousness
Octavarium
In The Presence of Enemies/The Dark Eternal Night (?)
The Count of Tuscany
Bridges In The Sky
Engima Machine
Heavens Cove (this doesn't have the tracklistings)
S2N
The written plaque on the viewfinder in the slide after the piano octave picture is different than what is written on the tour flyers.
That's pretty much spot on as for what I had in mind when I scripted the teaser campaign...
Let's just hope the album has a good drum sound!The drum sound was pretty stellar on the last two albums imo, especially d/t.
Or at least better than what we've been getting.
Let's just hope the album has a good drum sound!The drum sound was pretty stellar on the last two albums imo, especially d/t.
Or at least better than what we've been getting.
This...
I just took a quick glance at the track times. I'll fix it now...
This...
I just took a quick glance at the track times. I'll fix it now...
Don't worry, I was just playing it up for sarcasm. I know it's not that big of a deal. :lol
Love MM, and the only albums mix that sounds somewhat muffled to me was ADTOE and that was everything, not just the drums.Yeah dude. Am I the only one who hears that horrible hissing sound (which has to come from from terribly EQd cymbals/overhead drum mics) in the choruses of Outcry? This has bothered me since the album came out and to my knowledge no one else has ever commented on it. :lol
Didn't pick up on the 15, but that's pretty cool. I like the artwork a lot.A huge step up from the d/t cover. A have a feeling this new album is gonna be very melodic and positive. :coolio
This is great! I also read what the other band members James, Jordan, and Mike saying that they themselves are totally blown away after listening back to it and that they have reached a new level.Didn't pick up on the 15, but that's pretty cool. I like the artwork a lot.A huge step up from the d/t cover. A have a feeling this new album is gonna be very melodic and positive. :coolio
JP has said about the new album in an interview: "The record is filled with energy and excitement and positivity. I'm excited about it."
So yeah it sounds like it will be a positive and uplifting album.
What else could the album be called if it's The Top of the World Tour? Sitting On Top of the World? Flying to the Top Of The World? Spinning My Top Of The World?
What else could the album be called if it's The Top of the World Tour? Sitting On Top of the World? Flying to the Top Of The World? Spinning My Top Of The World?
The DT12 tour was called Along For The Ride so not related to the album title at all, although the album didn’t actually have a title!
What else could the album be called if it's The Top of the World Tour? Sitting On Top of the World? Flying to the Top Of The World? Spinning My Top Of The World?
The DT12 tour was called Along For The Ride so not related to the album title at all, although the album didn’t actually have a title!
There were 2 options:
1) Dream Theatour
2) Dream Theater Tour to promote Dream Theater by Dream Theater, sometimes in a theater
This is great! I also read what the other band members James, Jordan, and Mike saying that they themselves are totally blown away after listening back to it and that they have reached a new level.Didn't pick up on the 15, but that's pretty cool. I like the artwork a lot.A huge step up from the d/t cover. A have a feeling this new album is gonna be very melodic and positive. :coolio
JP has said about the new album in an interview: "The record is filled with energy and excitement and positivity. I'm excited about it."
So yeah it sounds like it will be a positive and uplifting album.
John Myung is absolutely speechless!!!
So I’ll ask again: does anyone recall the guys ever being this hyped for an album?
I hope his bass parts really stand out on this record! 💯💪This is great! I also read what the other band members James, Jordan, and Mike saying that they themselves are totally blown away after listening back to it and that they have reached a new level.Didn't pick up on the 15, but that's pretty cool. I like the artwork a lot.A huge step up from the d/t cover. A have a feeling this new album is gonna be very melodic and positive. :coolio
JP has said about the new album in an interview: "The record is filled with energy and excitement and positivity. I'm excited about it."
So yeah it sounds like it will be a positive and uplifting album.
John Myung is absolutely speechless!!!
:lol I can't believe nobody took up on that!
B.Lee
Apologies if this has been answered in an interview or something that I missed, but is there anything suggesting yes or no for an instrumental track? I just feel “Sleeping Giant” would be a great name for an instrumental, based on nothing concrete in the slightest… 😊
What else could the album be called if it's The Top of the World Tour? Sitting On Top of the World? Flying to the Top Of The World? Spinning My Top Of The World?
The DT12 tour was called Along For The Ride so not related to the album title at all, although the album didn’t actually have a title!
There were 2 options:
1) Dream Theatour
2) Dream Theater Tour to promote Dream Theater by Dream Theater, sometimes in a theater
I am also wondering if the pictures with the time stamps are referencing songs from the albums...
Afterlife
Metropolis
Caught In A Web
Peruvian Skies
The Dance of Eternity (And :rollin at the reference to the misheard lyric in Metropolis Pt.1, "death is the first dancing turtle")
The Great Debate
Stream of Consciousness
Octavarium
In The Presence of Enemies/The Dark Eternal Night (?)
The Count of Tuscany
Bridges In The Sky
Engima Machine
Heavens Cove (this doesn't have the tracklistings)
S2N
The written plaque on the viewfinder in the slide after the piano octave picture is different than what is written on the tour flyers.
That's pretty much spot on as for what I had in mind when I scripted the teaser campaign...
So I’ll ask again: does anyone recall the guys ever being this hyped for an album?Only at every single album release.
Can’t recall Jordan being this stoked tbhSo I’ll ask again: does anyone recall the guys ever being this hyped for an album?Only at every single album release.
Apologies if this has been answered in an interview or something that I missed, but is there anything suggesting yes or no for an instrumental track? I just feel “Sleeping Giant” would be a great name for an instrumental, based on nothing concrete in the slightest… 😊
So I’ll ask again: does anyone recall the guys ever being this hyped for an album?Only at every single album release.
I was just thinking about an instrumental. Time Trial sounds like a high speed instrumental.
“What image can we logically create that will make sense to fans”
This isn’t really spoiling anything so:
I know the title, artwork and the tracklisting of the album. I know if there is an instrumental track in there.
I have listened to the album.
I haven't interviewed the band about it. I will, though.
I was asked from the band to help with the new album presentation and videos that were uploaded on the fan club page.
I have not written my own review as it’s too soon.
I won’t answer any detailed questions yet.
I know the title, artwork and the tracklisting of the album. I know if there is an instrumental track in there.
I have listened to the album.
So I’ll ask again: does anyone recall the guys ever being this hyped for an album?Only at every single album release.
So I’ll ask again: does anyone recall the guys ever being this hyped for an album?Only at every single album release.
"This album is our best work" - John Petrucci
Feel like telling SINCE WHEN you know? just to know how the promotion machine works and how long in advance things are being set up....
And Images & Words has no room to talk when it comes to drum sound.. 😈So I’ll ask again: does anyone recall the guys ever being this hyped for an album?Only at every single album release.
"This album is our best work" - John Petrucci
I get the joke but why would this be an issue? Why would you feel excited for something for which JP goes like: “Meh, people are still going to prefer Images and Words and bitch about the drum sound but hey, it’s pretty cool nonetheless.”
Feel like telling SINCE WHEN you know? just to know how the promotion machine works and how long in advance things are being set up....
We started working on it early April…
It's already 28th in Australia and there's no official announcement yet. I'm disappointed.
It's already 28th in Australia and there's no official announcement yet. I'm disappointed.
It's already 28th in Australia and there's no official announcement yet. I'm disappointed.
I changed the date on all of my electronic devices to 7/29/21 and there's still no announcement. Where's the DT15 info???
It's already 28th in Australia and there's no official announcement yet. I'm disappointed.
Is it possible that they are testing the waters to see what kind of response will be before officially announcing?So if they think there is negativity, then no album? And we just get idk....TA in its entirety for the tour... ;)
Is it possible that they are testing the waters to see what kind of response will be before officially announcing?So if they think there is negativity, then no album? And we just get idk....TA in its entirety for the tour... ;)
For sure!!Is it possible that they are testing the waters to see what kind of response will be before officially announcing?So if they think there is negativity, then no album? And we just get idk....TA in its entirety for the tour... ;)
I highly doubt they'd ever do it again, but if they did do another concert that featured the entirety of The Astonishing, I'd go see it.
I don't think it's that early when you consider that they started mixing at the beginning of April. So it would just be the minor details that would change at that point. By then all the music and lyrics were basically set in stone and I'm sure JP was already formulating with Hugh regarding the artwork/packaging. So at that point it would make sense to bring Kim into the picture to start working out the reveal and other promotional ideas.
Feel like telling SINCE WHEN you know? just to know how the promotion machine works and how long in advance things are being set up....
We started working on it early April…
Wow! that early? I would have said June or so!
"To stretch beyond our limits
To blaze a brand new trail
Bold enough to conquer
Brave enough to fail"
Lyrics to the epic title track? Any guesses on who wrote them? Also, I'll be surprised if this isn't the main album cover, or at least, a special edition cover. I like that they included a "15" on there as well.
-Marc.
So, Dream Theater is going to announce a tour tomorrow ....that tickets went on sale for today?Dream Theater is my favorite band ever..But since I have been a fan, been to 7 concerts and hopefully 3 more now, the ticket buying experience and planning has been not good. Any other concert I want to go, I get an announcement a few days before the tickets go on sale, get the codes easily, and buy tickets. Every concert for DT feels like struggle with the tickets. Like boom! They are on sale. Granted we got 1 day notice this time, but it was weird..it can't be that hard.
I get that they've put an awful lot of thought into the videos and such, but the last couple of album announcements and seemed like they there is absolutely zero coordination going on.
It's the 28th of july, it's the 28th of july, it's the 28th of july. So exited, gonna stay tuned all day.
Also it now occurred to me that both the viewmaster and the binoculars are part of the "view" theme of the supposed title.
Seems like some kind of diorama/viewmaster in the special edition will be a no-brainer for this.
Even though i'm super excited, we probably won't get a single today, and i'm dying to hear at least a sample :metal
Falling Into Infinity 2 confirmed
Falling Into Infinity 2 confirmed
What do you mean by this? Confuses me…
You know what kind of thread I'll be starting when we have the album cover confirmed.That will be a day.
Geez, what are you waiting for?!? It's already July 28th. You owe me the announcement!
Yeah, come on DT! I need to go to bed at some point! :biggrin:Geez, what are you waiting for?!? It's already July 28th. You owe me the announcement!
It's 5:00 AM on July 28th... But they haven't announced it yet...... They're never gonna announce the album, all hope is lost!! :'( :'( :'(
The album cover has binoculars
I’m guessing around 4-5pm GMT.
I’m guessing around 4-5pm GMT.
It's coming out at 3:00pm UK time according to Noxon.
I’m guessing around 4-5pm GMT.
It's coming out at 3:00pm UK time according to Noxon.
Ooh, half an hour to go then! :metalI’m guessing around 4-5pm GMT.
It's coming out at 3:00pm UK time according to Noxon.
Nice!Ooh, half an hour to go then! :metalI’m guessing around 4-5pm GMT.
It's coming out at 3:00pm UK time according to Noxon.
This post on Reddit made me laugh. ;D ;D
(https://i.redd.it/8gfixqgzuxd71.jpg)
I really like that album cover. Feels like a bit of a cross between some of their earlier montage-type covers, with more of their modern imagery. I think it’s great. Song titles sound really cool and interesting too and definitely looking forward to yet some more great DT music 😊
Now I'm interested to see who wrote the lyrics for each song. There's got to be a JLB and JM lyric there, maybe MM wrote one too.
Alright. How can we match these -
👽🤙📞🕶🧟♂️💤💆🏻♂️🧍🏻♂️⌛️⏳⏰🚨🧛🏻♂️👁🧗♂️🌎
To these -
TA 09:32
ATC 07:35
IM 06:02
SG 10:05
TT 6:25
ATM 9:47
AVFTTOTW 20:24
-Marc.
👽 - TA - Terrestrial Aliens
🤙📞 - ATC - Answering The Call
🕶🧟♂️ - IM - Invisible Man
💤💆🏻♂️🧍🏻♂️- SG - Sleeping Giants
⌛️⏳⏰ - TT - Time Travelers
🚨🧛🏻♂️ - ATM - Alert The Master
👁🧗♂️🌎 - AVFTTOTW - A View From The Top Of The World
My guesses so far...
-Marc.
It's also odd that there's no announcement of the first single...
Apparently the cover is inspired by a boulder in the Norwegian mountains.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kjeragbolten
Not really impressed with the title. No points for originality. And the view? All I see is a bunch of rock and boots that are way too big. ???
Not really impressed with the title. No points for originality. And the view? All I see is a bunch of rock and boots that are way too big. ???
I wonder if the tour promo image will be the back cover or an inside piece of artwork in the liner notes?
-Marc.
Apparently the cover is inspired by a boulder in the Norwegian mountains.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kjeragbolten
I wonder if the tour promo image will be the back cover or an inside piece of artwork in the liner notes?
-Marc.
*Guessing* the back cover is the image on https://dreamtheater.net/, just below the image of the band (where the track listing is). Can't figure out how to link directly to it...
I wonder if the tour promo image will be the back cover or an inside piece of artwork in the liner notes?
-Marc.
*Guessing* the back cover is the image on https://dreamtheater.net/, just below the image of the band (where the track listing is). Can't figure out how to link directly to it...
This one?
https://dreamtheater.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DT-2021-background6.jpg
Well, it seems pretty clear that the giant boots refer to the giant himself of the song, as other elements in covers like "BC&SL" referred to some of the songs inside the album.
I like the concept but I find too many elements in a little space... the viewfinder is almost pointless and we even know it is a viewfinder only because of the tour banner
Great vibes though
Yeah tons of new art on there
(https://dreamtheater.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DT-2021-background4.jpg)
(https://dreamtheater.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DT-2021-background6.jpg)
(https://dreamtheater.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DT-2021-background7.jpg)
(https://dreamtheater.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DT-2021-background8.jpg)
(https://dreamtheater.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DT-2021-background9.jpg)
“ The empty shoes symbolise Mike Portnoy missing from the band !!!!!”
🤣 🤣.
The Picture With the boy holding his head and ears, crouching down in the desolate room, looks like it could be the liner artwork for Invisible Monster.Looks like he's in the same room with the Unteathered Angel girl. However, he looks teathered while she's content.
The Picture With the boy holding his head and ears, crouching down in the desolate room, looks like it could be the liner artwork for Invisible Monster.Looks like he's in the same room with the Unteathered Angel girl. However, he looks teathered while she's content.
Has anyone else noticed the spider over one of the boots in the cover artwork? Is it me or was it very badly photoshopped in? Look at its legs.
(https://dreamtheater.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DT-2021-background1.jpg)
Now I'm interested to see who wrote the lyrics for each song. There's got to be a JLB and JM lyric there, maybe MM wrote one too.
With LaBrie in Canada, he initially wrote with the band via ZOOM on a monitor in DTHQ. In March 2021, he flew down to New York, quarantined, and recorded his vocals face-to-face with Petrucci.
Titles and images are meh for me. Nothing original or exiting.
The real surprise was that Jimmy T is now promoted to a producer alongside with JP..I didn't see that coming. Even if he's name is there just for the credits it's a big deal to be in a DT record.
The real surprise was that Jimmy T is now promoted to a producer alongside with JP..I didn't see that coming. Even if he's name is there just for the credits it's a big deal to be in a DT record.I think this has more to do with Jimmy helping DT to shape the sound quality of the album than him making opinions on songs arrangements.
(https://dreamtheater.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DT-2021-background9.jpg)
That clown (?) under the bed is hilarious rather than scary. What's really scary is the lack of 3D perspective :biggrin:
Titles and images are meh for me. Nothing original or exiting.
(https://dreamtheater.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DT-2021-background9.jpg)
That clown (?) under the bed is hilarious rather than scary. What's really scary is the lack of 3D perspective :biggrin:
Is that Leatherface (from the Texas Chainsaw movies) in the picture on the wall!? If it's not, it's darn similar...
DT's album art has almost been universally bad, not sure what y'all were expecting :P
I suppose if there was going to be a bonus edition with a behind the scenes making of documentary they would have announced that too right?
Good point.I suppose if there was going to be a bonus edition with a behind the scenes making of documentary they would have announced that too right?
They probably won't announce album formats until preorders are almost ready to happen, and I don't believe a date has been announced for preorders yet.
-Marc.
I suppose if there was going to be a bonus edition with a behind the scenes making of documentary they would have announced that too right?
They probably won't announce album formats until preorders are almost ready to happen, and I don't believe a date has been announced for preorders yet.
-Marc.
Not yet. We can try to bully Noxon into telling us.I suppose if there was going to be a bonus edition with a behind the scenes making of documentary they would have announced that too right?
They probably won't announce album formats until preorders are almost ready to happen, and I don't believe a date has been announced for preorders yet.
-Marc.
On that note, has anyone seen a date for the first single release?
I got my ticket for the Toronto show!!!
I suppose if there was going to be a bonus edition with a behind the scenes making of documentary they would have announced that too right?
I got my ticket for the Toronto show!!!
Already?? I’m trying to get my tickets for the Mesa show, first show of the tour, but they’re not available yet. Is there a ticket presale going on right now that I don’t know about? I’m so excited that shows are back!!!
I got my ticket for the Toronto show!!!
Already?? I’m trying to get my tickets for the Mesa show, first show of the tour, but they’re not available yet. Is there a ticket presale going on right now that I don’t know about? I’m so excited that shows are back!!!
I got my ticket for the Toronto show!!!
Already?? I’m trying to get my tickets for the Mesa show, first show of the tour, but they’re not available yet. Is there a ticket presale going on right now that I don’t know about? I’m so excited that shows are back!!!
Hey man, I can give you the promotional code for the tickets on the venues website. It's where I bought my tickets.
I got my ticket for the Toronto show!!!
Already?? I’m trying to get my tickets for the Mesa show, first show of the tour, but they’re not available yet. Is there a ticket presale going on right now that I don’t know about? I’m so excited that shows are back!!!
On the ticketmaster website.
I could be reaching here, but after seeing the artwork for the individual songs on the album, I'm starting to think the pictures in the teaser videos which, obviously, represented songs from DT's back catalogue, were supposed to be thematically similar to the songs from the new album. The Dark Eternal Night being similar to Invisible Monster. Bridges in the Sky, Peruvian Skies, and Heaven's Cove being similar AVFTTOTW. Afterlife possibly being similar to The Alien. I'm not saying musically similar, just thematically similar in the imagery of the song titles and/or lyrical content. Not sure what that spider is supposed to represent, but it can't be a coincidence that one of the teaser images was for Caught in a Web.
I got my ticket for the Toronto show!!!
Already?? I’m trying to get my tickets for the Mesa show, first show of the tour, but they’re not available yet. Is there a ticket presale going on right now that I don’t know about? I’m so excited that shows are back!!!
Hey man, I can give you the promotional code for the tickets on the venues website. It's where I bought my tickets.
That would be sweet!! I appreciate it!
(https://i.imgur.com/40dWPPp.jpg)
I felt mildly creative (and bored).
I was thinking more along the lines of the fanclub making those connections when creating the teasers rather than the band actually constructing the songs with that in mind.I could be reaching here, but after seeing the artwork for the individual songs on the album, I'm starting to think the pictures in the teaser videos which, obviously, represented songs from DT's back catalogue, were supposed to be thematically similar to the songs from the new album. The Dark Eternal Night being similar to Invisible Monster. Bridges in the Sky, Peruvian Skies, and Heaven's Cove being similar AVFTTOTW. Afterlife possibly being similar to The Alien. I'm not saying musically similar, just thematically similar in the imagery of the song titles and/or lyrical content. Not sure what that spider is supposed to represent, but it can't be a coincidence that one of the teaser images was for Caught in a Web.
You've got a very interesting point of view. Would be awesome and Dream Theater-like to make all these lines to tracks in the past, and the teaser photo's indeed felt like it. I do wonder if they will be 'recognizable' (is that even an English word?) in riffs and / or chords and lyrics as well.
I got my ticket for the Toronto show!!!
Already?? I’m trying to get my tickets for the Mesa show, first show of the tour, but they’re not available yet. Is there a ticket presale going on right now that I don’t know about? I’m so excited that shows are back!!!
On the ticketmaster website.
I like the album cover, the title and the song titles! I'm irrationally positive about this album and that I will love it at least more than d/t and the self titled ;D
Someone willing to associate all the images to the song titles? I would assume that those artworks will be in the booklet and the lyrics will be printed upon them.
We see that kind of airship / balloon, what if the view from the top of the world is the one you get from actually flying and the song - given also the snippet of the lyrics - is about flight exploration? maybe a mythical story about someone taking to the sky to discover new worlds or whatever...
I like the album cover, the title and the song titles! I'm irrationally positive about this album and that I will love it at least more than d/t and the self titled ;D
Someone willing to associate all the images to the song titles? I would assume that those artworks will be in the booklet and the lyrics will be printed upon them.
We see that kind of airship / balloon, what if the view from the top of the world is the one you get from actually flying and the song - given also the snippet of the lyrics - is about flight exploration? maybe a mythical story about someone taking to the sky to discover new worlds or whatever...
I got my ticket for the Toronto show!!!
Already?? I’m trying to get my tickets for the Mesa show, first show of the tour, but they’re not available yet. Is there a ticket presale going on right now that I don’t know about? I’m so excited that shows are back!!!
On the ticketmaster website.
The Mesa Arts Center, where the Ikeda Theater is located, handles their own ticketing.
Now that I reminisce....I find it funny how they're coming back here on the first stop of the tour, as it was where I last saw them too. :lol
@The Letter M: interesting, you might be right. Actually the photo you associated with Answering the Call is the one that made me think about the title track, and that maybe it was all a metaphor ridden song (like Illumination Theory) about exploration in a fantasy or mythical world.
I got my ticket for the Toronto show!!!
Already?? I’m trying to get my tickets for the Mesa show, first show of the tour, but they’re not available yet. Is there a ticket presale going on right now that I don’t know about? I’m so excited that shows are back!!!
On the ticketmaster website.
The Mesa Arts Center, where the Ikeda Theater is located, handles their own ticketing.
Now that I reminisce....I find it funny how they're coming back here on the first stop of the tour, as it was where I last saw them too. :lol
I was at that show too back in 2019. Sounded great! That’s for the PM I just ordered my tickets and I’m excited!!
The album cover doesn't have green as the main color like I've been hoping for all these years. 0/10, worst album. You don't have to listen to an album to review it!
Somebody may have already posted this (lot's of chatter) but ADTOE and AVFTTOTW have the same cadence and syllables. 8
Coincidence?
The album cover doesn't have green as the main color like I've been hoping for all these years. 0/10, worst album. You don't have to listen to an album to review it!
Octavarium is their "green album". And completely non-coincidentally, it's their best one.
Somebody may have already posted this (lot's of chatter) but ADTOE and AVFTTOTW have the same cadence and syllables. 8
Coincidence?
"dramatic turn" and "view from the top" don't have the same cadence at all.
Somebody may have already posted this (lot's of chatter) but ADTOE and AVFTTOTW have the same cadence and syllables. 8
Coincidence?
"dramatic turn" and "view from the top" don't have the same cadence at all.
Seen on Reddit :rollin
(https://preview.redd.it/8vuquecwk0e71.jpg?auto=webp&s=420c74d017758fb60f80bf67cb1d9bfd9c41af2f)
Not really impressed with the title. No points for originality. And the view? All I see is a bunch of rock and boots that are way too big. ???
Not really impressed with the title. No points for originality. And the view? All I see is a bunch of rock and boots that are way too big. ???
All of this.
Somebody may have already posted this (lot's of chatter) but ADTOE and AVFTTOTW have the same cadence and syllables. 8
Coincidence?
"dramatic turn" and "view from the top" don't have the same cadence at all.
I hear "A Dramatic Turn Of Events" as a two-note pick-up of "A Dra-" with the downbeat on "Ma", going into 5-beat measure of "-matic Turn Of E-" and landing on a downbeat of "-vents", whereas "A View From The Top Of The World" just has "A" as a pick-up into the downbeat of "View", where it rolls off in two triplets (or a 6/8 measure) ending on "World" as another downbeat.
-Marc.
Not really impressed with the title. No points for originality. And the view? All I see is a bunch of rock and boots that are way too big. ???
All of this.
Looks cool now we just get to wait three more months shouldn't be too bad though I figure we'll get a single or two beforehandNot really impressed with the title. No points for originality. And the view? All I see is a bunch of rock and boots that are way too big. ???
All of this.
Not that it's groundbreaking or anything but but not sure about the downer angle. Octavarium was a fake word and the album art was balls clacking over a field. Turns out in context it was evocative/appropriate and it's one of the more iconic DT covers/books because of the symbolism. Realistically we can't expect this to turn out the same but there's some cool imagery and the vibe is very peaceful with dark/myserious undertones. It's meant to go with a piece of music seems early to judge so harshly.
The spider on top of the boot is weird though thank god that isn't on the main cover
Not really impressed with the title. No points for originality. And the view? All I see is a bunch of rock and boots that are way too big. ???
All of this.
I must admit that im surprised by that ;)
Somebody may have already posted this (lot's of chatter) but ADTOE and AVFTTOTW have the same cadence and syllables. 8
Coincidence?
"dramatic turn" and "view from the top" don't have the same cadence at all.
I hear "A Dramatic Turn Of Events" as a two-note pick-up of "A Dra-" with the downbeat on "Ma", going into 5-beat measure of "-matic Turn Of E-" and landing on a downbeat of "-vents", whereas "A View From The Top Of The World" just has "A" as a pick-up into the downbeat of "View", where it rolls off in two triplets (or a 6/8 measure) ending on "World" as another downbeat.
-Marc.
I'd include "Top" as a downbeat too, but apart from that I agree.
Even Dream Theater's album titles are highly technical! :neverusethis:
The only problem with the title is that we will have to type AVFTTOTW forever. :facepalm: :lol
I love the all the art and the cover. I get sick of seeing Eddies, skulls, and all manner of stuff I don't care to look at. This is interesting and much better than the D/T art. I find myself already thinking about the different songs and pictures. Which goes with what, what does it mean, etc. The red ball and the ant? What happened with the burning house? That boy covering his ears and all the rest in that pic. (which instantly reminds me of what my 20 y/o son is going through with Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Major Depression Disorder - that really is his life :'()
I am super excited! I have 3 DT concerts on the way, and in addition, I wasn't around when the Christmas one came out that they just released in the Lost not Forgotten Archives, so I have been all over that and it's almost like new music. All in all, some great DT excitement flowing here. :metal
Has anyone else noticed that the track time for Invisible Monster in the announcement is different from the one in the promo videos? (6:02 in the vids, 6:31 in the announcement)
I'm wondering if this was just a typo or if they added a section to it between when the vids were made & now.
Has anyone else noticed that the track time for Invisible Monster in the announcement is different from the one in the promo videos? (6:02 in the vids, 6:31 in the announcement)
I'm wondering if this was just a typo or if they added a section to it between when the vids were made & now.
I am still very excited for the album, but I wasn't expecting late October :S. Oh well. And considering that we kinda already knew a lot of info, today's announcement with no single was a bit... meh? *insert Yoda saying Patience xD*
I'll probably abbreviate it as AVF or TOTW, no way I'm going to use all the letters.
My script included the correct time, the video editor goofed. If you look at the fifth video it has the correct time.
So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
You're counting the NOMAC tracks and tracks that don't feature all members performing?
So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
I think you missed one, I counted 70.
ADTOE: 9
DT12: 9
TA: 34
D/T: 10
New album: 7
Holiday Spirit: 1
So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
I think you missed one, I counted 70.
ADTOE: 9
DT12: 9
TA: 34
D/T: 10
New album: 7
Holiday Spirit: 1So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
You're counting the NOMAC tracks and tracks that don't feature all members performing?
IIRC, Jordan recorded them with some of his tech.
So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
I think you missed one, I counted 70.
ADTOE: 9
DT12: 9
TA: 34
D/T: 10
New album: 7
Holiday Spirit: 1So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
You're counting the NOMAC tracks and tracks that don't feature all members performing?
IIRC, Jordan recorded them with some of his tech.
Not counting the Xmas single means not counting the Xmas single.
One member recording something is not the whole band recording something.
What about the songs on ADTOE that have no drums?
So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
I think you missed one, I counted 70.
ADTOE: 9
DT12: 9
TA: 34
D/T: 10
New album: 7
Holiday Spirit: 1So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
You're counting the NOMAC tracks and tracks that don't feature all members performing?
IIRC, Jordan recorded them with some of his tech.
Not counting the Xmas single means not counting the Xmas single.
One member recording something is not the whole band recording something.
What about the songs on ADTOE that have no drums?
I think you're overthinking what was just a simple dumb joke, bud.
So with this album (not including the Christmas single), this lineup has recorded a total of 69 songs :hat
I think you missed one, I counted 70.
ADTOE: 9
DT12: 9
TA: 34
D/T: 10
New album: 7
Holiday Spirit: 1
Sometimes making a joke here is like a train wreck.
:corn
I'll probably abbreviate it as AVF or TOTW, no way I'm going to use all the letters.
We should just decide now that the official abbreviation for it is "View."
How about A...W?I’m gonna rehash the D/T debate by suggesting View/World (get it? View on top of world?).I'll probably abbreviate it as AVF or TOTW, no way I'm going to use all the letters.
We should just decide now that the official abbreviation for it is "View."
It annoys me all the weird ways people abbreviate Octavarium.
8M. 8VIUM. 8VARIUM
(https://www.myamericanmarket.com/1841-large_default/v8-original-100-vegetable-juice.jpg)It annoys me all the weird ways people abbreviate Octavarium.
8M. 8VIUM. 8VARIUM
I have literally not once seen any of these before.
I go 8V. ;D
Pretty much what Timmy said, tho I go lowercase v = 8vIt annoys me all the weird ways people abbreviate Octavarium.
8M. 8VIUM. 8VARIUM
I have literally not once seen any of these before.
I go 8V. ;D
Pretty much what Timmy said, tho I go lowercase v = 8vIt annoys me all the weird ways people abbreviate Octavarium.
8M. 8VIUM. 8VARIUM
I have literally not once seen any of these before.
I go 8V. ;D
Talking about abbreviations, I always hate that the self-titled album is always referred to as DT12 - IMO, it should be s/t, but personal opinions are like....
As for the new one, it's not that difficult to type. I'll go with AVFtTotW. It's 8 letters, the same as TOWHtStS, which I've never seen anyone complain about typing out. :P
I think AVFTTOTP is easy enough to type out. Personally I'll just abbreviate "A View From the Top of the World" as such.
Pretty much what Timmy said, tho I go lowercase v = 8vIt annoys me all the weird ways people abbreviate Octavarium.
8M. 8VIUM. 8VARIUM
I have literally not once seen any of these before.
I go 8V. ;D
Talking about abbreviations, I always hate that the self-titled album is always referred to as DT12 - IMO, it should be s/t, but personal opinions are like....
As for the new one, it's not that difficult to type. I'll go with AVFtTotW. It's 8 letters, the same as TOWHtStS, which I've never seen anyone complain about typing out. :P
I think AVFTTOTP is easy enough to type out. Personally I'll just abbreviate "A View From the Top of the World" as such.
Ah yes, A View From The Top Of The Porld. Amazingly typed out abbreviation. ;)
-Marc.
I think AVFTTOTP is easy enough to type out. Personally I'll just abbreviate "A View From the Top of the World" as such.
Ah yes, A View From The Top Of The Porld. Amazingly typed out abbreviation. ;)
-Marc.
:rollin
I've never seen anyone mix uppercase and lowercase in abbreviations before.You mean you don't read my posts?!? *sniff* :'(
As for the new one, it's not that difficult to type. I'll go with AVFtTotW. It's 8 letters, the same as TOWHtStS, which I've never seen anyone complain about typing out. :P
This is a rarely commented song and the reason clearly is that we are too lazy to type it all up.
We prefer to pretend it doesn't exist. :rollin
Random one but hasn't this been the longest gap between their 'epics' now?
ACOS - SDOIT (7 years)
SDOIT - 8V (3 years)
8V - ITPOE (2 years)
ITPOE - TCOT (2 years)
TCOT - IT (4 years)
IT - AVFTTOTW (8 years)
From some of the song titles I get a feeling of a return to the fantasy stuff from Systematic Chaos (The Alien, Invisible Monster, Sleeping Giant, Awaken The Master).
Maybe they're all metaphors. One could feel like an alien in a difficult society, and the invisible monster can be depression, anxiety, a bad relative....
Maybe we'll get some good bootlegs from this tour.. 🤪🤘Seen on Reddit :rollin
(https://preview.redd.it/8vuquecwk0e71.jpg?auto=webp&s=420c74d017758fb60f80bf67cb1d9bfd9c41af2f)
That.. made me actually laugh out loud!! :rollin
I got my ticket for the Toronto show!!!Amex presale?
From some of the song titles I get a feeling of a return to the fantasy stuff from Systematic Chaos (The Alien, Invisible Monster, Sleeping Giant, Awaken The Master).
Random one but hasn't this been the longest gap between their 'epics' now?
ACOS - SDOIT (7 years)
SDOIT - 8V (3 years)
8V - ITPOE (2 years)
ITPOE - TCOT (2 years)
TCOT - IT (4 years)
IT - AVFTTOTW (8 years)
By the announcement on there own official website Dream Theater has two pictures of the album art. On the background the spider is on the giants boot, scrolling down to the 'official album picture', he is'nt on the boot. Easter egg?
After seeing the song titles, I'm wondering which song JP is using his eight string guitar? My first guess would be Invisible Monster. I could be completely wrong though. :justjen
The spider has me curious. It pops up a lot. The boot, the portrait of the band, the art with the ball, with the sundial. Surprised it isn't in the scary room with the boy..but there is enough scary in there already. ...I was expanding the pictures and the scary face under the bed is Scary..looking! :omg:
Am I missing the spider on the boot everyone keeps talking about?? I don’t see it.
A huge rendering of the spider needs to hang over the crowd ala Tommy Lee's drum-kit... bonus points if it rotates and the legs move. If they don't do it, it's just a missed opportunity.
i think the spider is a allusive to the 8 string guitarThis is an interesting idea. Perhaps theres some truth in it!
A huge rendering of the spider needs to hang over the crowd ala Tommy Lee's drum-kit... bonus points if it rotates and the legs move. If they don't do it, it's just a missed opportunity.I'm pretty sure the U2 stage on the 3600 tour was called "the spider" and the last Kiss show was too, I believe. It'd be cool if DT did that even if on a smaller scale.
:lolThe spider has me curious. It pops up a lot. The boot, the portrait of the band, the art with the ball, with the sundial. Surprised it isn't in the scary room with the boy..but there is enough scary in there already. ...I was expanding the pictures and the scary face under the bed is Scary..looking! :omg:
Yeah, I wonder if it has a deeper connection to a song or a recurring theme, or maybe there was just a discount on spider stock images and Hugh Syme had some to use since he was at it.
Am I missing the spider on the boot everyone keeps talking about?? I don’t see it.
It's on this pic.
https://dreamtheater.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DT-2021-background1.jpg
I've never seen anyone mix uppercase and lowercase in abbreviations before. To me, abbreviations just look better when they're all caps, especially when they're abbreviating a title, which typically uses all caps for first letters of every word anyway. . .
Doesn’t Jordan also play/have a signature 8 string? Would be insane to see him playing guitar w JP. Also will be interested to see how John approaches 8 compared to Tosin Abasi and then also other more typical djenty bands. Excited to say the least!i think the spider is a allusive to the 8 string guitarThis is an interesting idea. Perhaps theres some truth in it!
Doesn’t Jordan also play/have a signature 8 string? Would be insane to see him playing guitar w JP.That will never, ever happen.
Doesn’t Jordan also play/have a signature 8 string? Would be insane to see him playing guitar w JP.That will never, ever happen.
Didn't they already do the spider thing on Systematic Chaos? Does this mean their new album is Systematic Chaos 2.0,? Like ADTOE was kind of IaW 2.0?
Doesn’t Jordan also play/have a signature 8 string? Would be insane to see him playing guitar w JP.That will never, ever happen.
I asked Jordan during a meet and greet for in 2019 about his 8 string, and he said something along the lines of not playing it anymore because it hurts/bothers his left arm, and he doesn't want to risk damaging something and not being able to play keyboard.
I saw him playing it earlier that year (NAMM 2019) and he did some simple rhythm and lead stuff. I think for experimenting it would be fine, but nothing to put out on a DT record.
Doesn’t Jordan also play/have a signature 8 string? Would be insane to see him playing guitar w JP.That will never, ever happen.
Didn't they already do the spider thing on Systematic Chaos? Does this mean their new album is Systematic Chaos 2.0,? Like ADTOE was kind of IaW 2.0?
Ants
Didn't they already do the spider thing on Systematic Chaos? Does this mean their new album is Systematic Chaos 2.0,? Like ADTOE was kind of IaW 2.0?
Ants
of course, duh
Still, though, with the insects. Let's give other creatures some attention.
Didn't they already do the spider thing on Systematic Chaos? Does this mean their new album is Systematic Chaos 2.0,? Like ADTOE was kind of IaW 2.0?
Ants
of course, duh
Still, though, with the insects. Let's give other creatures some attention.
Right, like birds! There are lots of birds in the artwork shown on the website, presumably for the booklet. We've *never* seen birds on DT artwork before!
-Marc.
I want to see some penguins...
I've never seen anyone mix uppercase and lowercase in abbreviations before. To me, abbreviations just look better when they're all caps, especially when they're abbreviating a title, which typically uses all caps for first letters of every word anyway. . .
Actually, title case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case)(according to the major style guides), capitalizes first letters, except minor words such as articles or short prepositions, etc. unless they are the first or last word of the title. The forthcoming album should be "A View from the Top of the World" according to title case conventions.
Actually, title case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case)(according to the major style guides), capitalizes first letters, except minor words such as articles or short prepositions, etc. unless they are the first or last word of the title. The forthcoming album should be "A View from the Top of the World" according to title case conventions.
I want to see some penguins...
(https://i.imgur.com/DqLBkcW.jpeg)
I want to see some penguins...
(https://i.imgur.com/DqLBkcW.jpeg)
I need a concept album about these guys:
(https://misanimales.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/pinguinos-madagascar-scaled.jpg)
So there's no new single yet, right? Or am I missing it
So there's no new single yet, right? Or am I missing it
No single. I'm thinking August 6th or late August.
So there's no new single yet, right? Or am I missing it
No single. I'm thinking August 6th or late August.
That narrows it down. :lol
From MM’s Facebook: “… Petrucci played the 8-String Song for some people here at his Camp. I've never had so many people come up to me and say, "holy s*!" or, "you have to be kidding me" or "Oh my ____ ____" I'm smiling typing this. But that one will not be the first release coming pretty soon. That one is a "doooooozie!" …”
I figured the single was gonna be today. Be kinda weird to announce a tour and new album and delay a single release
I figured the single was gonna be today. Be kinda weird to announce a tour and new album and delay a single release
Usually, IO releases the single about two weeks after the album announcement. I expect it to be released on Aug. 13th, along with the preorders. Hope to be wrong, though, and that it comes next week :metal
From MM’s Facebook: “… Petrucci played the 8-String Song for some people here at his Camp. I've never had so many people come up to me and say, "holy s*!" or, "you have to be kidding me" or "Oh my ____ ____" I'm smiling typing this. But that one will not be the first release coming pretty soon. That one is a "doooooozie!" …”
Since it's only 7 tracks on this album (one being over 20 minutes), my guess is there will only be 2 singles this time. I could be very wrong though :P
After seeing the song titles, I'm wondering which song JP is using his eight string guitar? My first guess would be Invisible Monster. I could be completely wrong though. :justjenWhichever it is I expect it to be my least favorite song on the album. 8 string guitars have become somewhat common now, yet to my ears not a single person has been able to make one sound even remotely good. Guitars just don't sound nice down there. Hopefully the 8 string is not going to stay.
"A View From the Top of the World" - A View From the Top of the World (2021)
What makes this a challenge to play for me would be that it's a 20-minute epic, so the memorization aspect is the first part of the challenge. And then there are certain sections that I have to focus on. For instance, there is a classical Mozart-like section that happens in the second half of the song. It's the type of part that definitely takes a bit of practice, when taken out of context it turns into a cool little exercise all by itself.
In case of 3 releases, the cheapest choice possible in terms of time would be Transcending Time (6:25), Invisible Monster (6:31) and Answering The Call (7:35).
That sums up to 20:31 of total music revealed, pretty much one third of the total music on the album.
Seems too much for me, I guess there is going not going to be more than 2 singles
Since it's only 7 tracks on this album (one being over 20 minutes), my guess is there will only be 2 singles this time. I could be very wrong though :P
John Myung put the self-titled track of the upcoming album as one of the top 5 hard songs to play:
instead they settle for Hugh " as little effort as I can get away with " Syme.
John Myung put the self-titled track of the upcoming album as one of the top 5 hard songs to play:As I am ???Quote"A View From the Top of the World" - A View From the Top of the World (2021)
What makes this a challenge to play for me would be that it's a 20-minute epic, so the memorization aspect is the first part of the challenge. And then there are certain sections that I have to focus on. For instance, there is a classical Mozart-like section that happens in the second half of the song. It's the type of part that definitely takes a bit of practice, when taken out of context it turns into a cool little exercise all by itself.
https://www.revolvermag.com/music/dream-theater-5-most-difficult-songs-play-live#i-am-train-thought-2003
I hate that ****ing notion.
I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...
Using stock imagery is a tool for digital artists in much the same way that using a specific instrument or sound patch when you're a musician - yes, you're relying on someone else's creativity to create something new, but I really don't see the problem with that. And others prefer to either paint things fully, or take all their photos themselves. Different tools for different preferences.
I mean, people haven't even found the correct photo for the Kjeragbolten image. It's this one: https://www.shutterstock.com/nb/image-photo/kjeragbolten-norway-stone-between-two-rocks-111144011. But due to the popularity of the imagery, you'll find literally thousands of the same angle image on google image search, due to the fact that it's something people go visit and photograph a lot...
Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?
Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?I mean, Storm Thorgerson did this: https://youtu.be/6Hxn1Jy_v0I
John Myung put the self-titled track of the upcoming album as one of the top 5 hard songs to play:Quote"A View From the Top of the World" - A View From the Top of the World (2021)
What makes this a challenge to play for me would be that it's a 20-minute epic, so the memorization aspect is the first part of the challenge. And then there are certain sections that I have to focus on. For instance, there is a classical Mozart-like section that happens in the second half of the song. It's the type of part that definitely takes a bit of practice, when taken out of context it turns into a cool little exercise all by itself.
https://www.revolvermag.com/music/dream-theater-5-most-difficult-songs-play-live#i-am-train-thought-2003
I hate that ****ing notion.
I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...
Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?I mean, Storm Thorgerson did this: https://youtu.be/6Hxn1Jy_v0I
After seeing the song titles, I'm wondering which song JP is using his eight string guitar? My first guess would be Invisible Monster. I could be completely wrong though. :justjenWhichever it is I expect it to be my least favorite song on the album. 8 string guitars have become somewhat common now, yet to my ears not a single person has been able to make one sound even remotely good. Guitars just don't sound nice down there. Hopefully the 8 string is not going to stay.
I don't think anyone has a problem with the use of stock images. It's mostly the bad use of Photoshop, wrong perspective, bad (or nonexistent) shadows, difference in the asset resolutions that points to the so called "laziness".This is the issue that I have with Hugh's art for the last 15-20 years - especially on DT's artwork. The cover for BCaSL is a primary example of that. The lack of a shadow for the mouse, the elephant not looking real, the majesty symbol not having the correct perspective and even just having the majesty symbol there as basically a stain on the floor. When I created the artwork for the Black Clouds and Silver Anniversary T-shirt (which MP asked me to do), I did everything I could to make sure everything fit - so the shadows matched the light source, the perspectives were more accurate and I made the majesty symbol a marble floor design. In fact, MP was impressed enough that he decided to do a poster of that image, too.
I agree and was going to post the same thing, altho I *love* the spirit that Storm embodied in how he created artwork. That said, when that cover was created, Photoshop didn't even exist then, so it wasn't an option. If he had done that artwork 10 years later, you can be sure he would've only used a small fraction of the beds that they did end up using. But still, the execution would've been done perfectly, as can be seen by Storm's art from the 90s onward (the cover of Pulse and Richard Wright's Broken China album both come to mind immediately).Yeah, but DT are not PF, and they probably couldn't afford the kind of work that went into producing the cover for AMLOR.Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?I mean, Storm Thorgerson did this: https://youtu.be/6Hxn1Jy_v0I
Also, if DT weren't happy with Hugh's work, they wouldn't keep going back to him, so obviously they seem content with his work enough to continue having him do artwork for the band. Or maybe it's just John's "What Would Rush Do?"... either way, I don't blame them, or Hugh. I do think Hugh does put a lot of work into his work, but there are also some oversights in them, so either his vision is going, he doesn't care enough, or the band doesn't care enough to notice or point out anything that might look odd.From what I understand, they of course love Hugh's artwork - not just JP but MP, and I'd imagine that the case for the rest of the guys as well. But it seems that they (both JP and MP who deal with Hugh) defer to Hugh in general when it comes to the details of the artwork, trusting him, being that he's the professional instead of questioning him. I think it's a mistake, but it's their product and their choice. All I can do is sit back and be an arm-chair quarterback knowing it could have (and should have) been better because I care about such details and want the best for my favorite band. But if they don't care, there's nothing I can do about it than periodically express frustration.
I'm hoping for some weird sci-fi sounds in The Alien! That's something they've never done.Ummmm....did you forget about the 5 NOMAC tracks on TA? Those are "weird sci-fi sounds" if I ever heard them.
I'm hoping for some weird sci-fi sounds in The Alien! That's something they've never done.I think the Nomacs qualify for weird sci-fi sounds. As much has Jordan has been experimenting with modern keyboard patches and the iPad apps lately, I think it's safe to say that we will hear something new and bizarre on DT15.
I'm not a big artwork guy, so for better or worse, I won't spend too much mindshare on the new cover. My main hope (beyond the songs being great, obviously), is for it to sound great. DOT, LTE3, and TV all sound friggin' sick. I hope that trend continues.That is likely, since Andy Sneap mixed and mastered the record (as he has done with TV by John and Firepower by Priest too, all really rather good sounding records, these ones)
I don't think anyone has a problem with the use of stock images. It's mostly the bad use of Photoshop, wrong perspective, bad (or nonexistent) shadows, difference in the asset resolutions that points to the so called "laziness".
Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?
No one gives a shit about that, it’s the poor photoshop work that gripes me. It’s not on the album cover, but the Spider on the boot on one of the cover photos is laughable. Forgive me if that’s not Hugh’s doing, but that really is poor.
After seeing the song titles, I'm wondering which song JP is using his eight string guitar? My first guess would be Invisible Monster. I could be completely wrong though. :justjenWhichever it is I expect it to be my least favorite song on the album. 8 string guitars have become somewhat common now, yet to my ears not a single person has been able to make one sound even remotely good. Guitars just don't sound nice down there. Hopefully the 8 string is not going to stay.
Wow.. have you tried Plini or Animals as Leaders? I'm not talking about the songs that garner these guys praise in the world of Djent, I'm talking about the more obscure tracks. Tosin especially has a few wonderful examples of clean 8-sting work.
JP will lean more toward high gain and distortion I'd bet, but I'm sure it's something we've not heard before... especially since MM is going ape about it.
Personally, I'd like to hear JP tackle some of the more odd tunings for 8's and 7's ala Tesseract.
I hate that ****ing notion.
I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...
Using stock imagery is a tool for digital artists in much the same way that using a specific instrument or sound patch when you're a musician - yes, you're relying on someone else's creativity to create something new, but I really don't see the problem with that. And others prefer to either paint things fully, or take all their photos themselves. Different tools for different preferences.
I mean, people haven't even found the correct photo for the Kjeragbolten image. It's this one: https://www.shutterstock.com/nb/image-photo/kjeragbolten-norway-stone-between-two-rocks-111144011. But due to the popularity of the imagery, you'll find literally thousands of the same angle image on google image search, due to the fact that it's something people go visit and photograph a lot...
Are you seriously saying Hugh Syme should've travelled to Norway to take that image himself, which would've looked pretty much identical to the literally thousands of other images on the internet... instead of picking that stock image?
It doesn’t change the fact that the execution of the cover artwork is poor - the image even has two horizons for petes sake. This makes it fair to question the passion/dedication of the artist. Luckily history shows that you should not judge a book by its cover, hence it doesn’t reflect the quality of the music, fortunatly.
After seeing the song titles, I'm wondering which song JP is using his eight string guitar? My first guess would be Invisible Monster. I could be completely wrong though. :justjenWhichever it is I expect it to be my least favorite song on the album. 8 string guitars have become somewhat common now, yet to my ears not a single person has been able to make one sound even remotely good. Guitars just don't sound nice down there. Hopefully the 8 string is not going to stay.
Wow.. have you tried Plini or Animals as Leaders? I'm not talking about the songs that garner these guys praise in the world of Djent, I'm talking about the more obscure tracks. Tosin especially has a few wonderful examples of clean 8-sting work.
JP will lean more toward high gain and distortion I'd bet, but I'm sure it's something we've not heard before... especially since MM is going ape about it.
Personally, I'd like to hear JP tackle some of the more odd tunings for 8's and 7's ala Tesseract.
While I agree with you, I don't think Plini uses 8 string guitars.
I saw Javier Reyes (Animals as Leader) opening for Plini 2 years ago and he is a great guitar player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc0LcFJSKFI
After seeing the song titles, I'm wondering which song JP is using his eight string guitar? My first guess would be Invisible Monster. I could be completely wrong though. :justjenWhichever it is I expect it to be my least favorite song on the album. 8 string guitars have become somewhat common now, yet to my ears not a single person has been able to make one sound even remotely good. Guitars just don't sound nice down there. Hopefully the 8 string is not going to stay.
Wow.. have you tried Plini or Animals as Leaders? I'm not talking about the songs that garner these guys praise in the world of Djent, I'm talking about the more obscure tracks. Tosin especially has a few wonderful examples of clean 8-sting work.
JP will lean more toward high gain and distortion I'd bet, but I'm sure it's something we've not heard before... especially since MM is going ape about it.
Personally, I'd like to hear JP tackle some of the more odd tunings for 8's and 7's ala Tesseract.
I think this time, I’ll be fine to listen to the first single a couple of times and then just leave it at that until the album release. Would’ve struggled with it in the past, but I’ve been through that many DT album cycles now, that I know I enjoy the albums most when I’m going in not knowing what’s coming. And at least for me, two and especially three singles from a seven song album is just too much.. So I think I can display some restraint in my old age 😊Agree completely! It works great, the full album experience all new at one time. :tup
I'm not a big artwork guy, so for better or worse, I won't spend too much mindshare on the new cover. My main hope (beyond the songs being great, obviously), is for it to sound great. DOT, LTE3, and TV all sound friggin' sick. I hope that trend continues.I second that great trend. DOT, TV and LTE3 have all be fantastic!
I hate that ****ing notion.
I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...
I hate that ****ing notion.
I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...
Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.
Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.
Wow, I totally forgot about that. Hope he’s okay and just moved on. Maybe the new record will draw him back? (Anyone remember the guy’s name?)
Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.
Wow, I totally forgot about that. Hope he’s okay and just moved on. Maybe the new record will draw him back? (Anyone remember the guy’s name?)
Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.
Wow, I totally forgot about that. Hope he’s okay and just moved on. Maybe the new record will draw him back? (Anyone remember the guy’s name?)
Pretty sure he shuffled off this mortal coil, unfortunately.
I hate that ****ing notion.
I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...
Glad to know! Although there is a lot of resemblance with Marillion's Somewhere Else, I really like that art. Also there's some connection with DT12 cover which I thought cool.
I hate that ****ing notion.
I know for a fact that the process of album artwork isn't just "Hugh tosses something together and DT is happy with whatever he delivers." It's literally creating countless of alternatives and going back and forth on details and alternatives and edits to get to the final result. We had at least 5 alternatives just in the teaser campaign - one of which is used in the tour poster...
Using stock imagery is a tool for digital artists in much the same way that using a specific instrument or sound patch when you're a musician - yes, you're relying on someone else's creativity to create something new, but I really don't see the problem with that. And others prefer to either paint things fully, or take all their photos themselves. Different tools for different preferences.
Ok pure speculation here, but I think the title track is all about the forum member who was going to Everest and then just disappeared. A tribute is sorts.
Wow, I totally forgot about that. Hope he’s okay and just moved on. Maybe the new record will draw him back? (Anyone remember the guy’s name?)
Pretty sure he shuffled off this mortal coil, unfortunately.
After all these years, I'm still amazed at the amount of s*** the guys receive for such a trivial thing as the artwork! Geez, get a life people! That's why I refarined from not only posting but also reading anything on DTF for such a long time. Should have stayed in retirement....Or not.
B.Lee
After all these years, I'm still amazed at the amount of s*** the guys receive for such a trivial thing as the artwork! Geez, get a life people! That's why I refarined from not only posting but also reading anything on DTF for such a long time. Should have stayed in retirement....Or not.
B.Lee
Relax guys, no need to get all angry because some of us don't like Hugh Syme's art. In the end it's the music that matters.
Relax guys, no need to get all angry because some of us don't like Hugh Syme's art. In the end it's the music that matters.
Of course it is, hopefully. Yet, the endless discussion about how bad the artwork is irks me. You have the right to think it is obviously, but some here are seemingly trying to convince everyone it is while some think it's good.
On a side note, I will refrain from listening to anything that'll be released before the album itself is. Will be difficult. lol
B.Lee
Relax guys, no need to get all angry because some of us don't like Hugh Syme's art. In the end it's the music that matters.I don't think a majority of the people is angry, most of us are just discussing the artwork. And at the end of the day, that's all it is, a discussion.
Relax guys, no need to get all angry because some of us don't like Hugh Syme's art. In the end it's the music that matters.I don't think a majority of the people is angry, most of us are just discussing the artwork. And at the end of the day, that's all it is, a discussion.
We can talk about how we like it or not like it. And the band is aware that people either like it or they don't. And it's fine if they don't like it as much as it is fine if they do like it.
As an electrician, I always find myself walking into restaurants or any other business establishment and noticing whether or not the lights are centered on the hallway, or a pipe is run really weird, or a host of other tiny little things that we are always double checking in my trade.
TL;DR: We need a single ASAP :lol
I think I'm even more excited about this album than with D/T. I guess it's because the members themselves are hyped up about it (even more than usual), and that it is mixed and mastered by Andy Sneap. His work with JP and LTE made their respective albums sound great.
Ah I must be thinking of another one then. The newest Priest album?That’s the one.
I found the Google street view of the album cover. First time we've had an interactive 3D album cover.
https://www.google.com/maps/@59.0336154,6.5933396,3a,44.9y,289.53h,89.06t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPVsOu47RtUKiY9jwtCJXnmqgy3JqtTX7snhVAn!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPVsOu47RtUKiY9jwtCJXnmqgy3JqtTX7snhVAn%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi0-ya334.47552-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352
A 3D View From the Top of the 3D World + Hugh Syme's Fury
As an electrician, I always find myself walking into restaurants or any other business establishment and noticing whether or not the lights are centered on the hallway, or a pipe is run really weird, or a host of other tiny little things that we are always double checking in my trade.
But only an electrician notices. No one else sees it, or usually cares.
OTOH, while that sentence would seem to defend the idea I’m not going through the extra trouble for stuff that no one but someone from your trade is going to notice, I also see an argument for taking pride in what you’re doing. If you love doing what you’re doing, it should be something that you should walk away from and it looks professional even if no one will notice.
That being said, all I see is a beautiful album cover with gorgeous artwork. But I am not of that trade, so I don’t have the eye to pick out such inconsistencies.
Relax guys, no need to get all angry because some of us don't like Hugh Syme's art. In the end it's the music that matters.
Relax guys, no need to get all angry because some of us don't like Hugh Syme's art. In the end it's the music that matters.
I couldn’t care less if you don’t like it, but there are better ways for people to articulate that. Most people are great, but then there are a bunch of comments which are childish and lame. It’s almost like the minute DT put out a Syme cover, there’s this thing where instead of saying “that’s overall pretty cool”, or “I’m not feeling this one as much”, they are like “here we go again with Syme, what can we find that’s wrong”. They’ll get out a microscope and nitpick every fucking detail. It’s like “Hugh Syme has got form of missing the last half centimetre of a shadow, so I’d better check every shadow on this new album art”. And if they find something off the size of a bees dick, they are the first to get on the forum and say “see, see, I told you so, man that guy is lazy hahaha”, like there is some prize at the end of it all. Sorry man, but that’s just bullshit.
Relax guys, no need to get all angry because some of us don't like Hugh Syme's art. In the end it's the music that matters.
I couldn’t care less if you don’t like it, but there are better ways for people to articulate that. Most people are great, but then there are a bunch of comments which are childish and lame. It’s almost like the minute DT put out a Syme cover, there’s this thing where instead of saying “that’s overall pretty cool”, or “I’m not feeling this one as much”, they are like “here we go again with Syme, what can we find that’s wrong”. They’ll get out a microscope and nitpick every fucking detail. It’s like “Hugh Syme has got form of missing the last half centimetre of a shadow, so I’d better check every shadow on this new album art”. And if they find something off the size of a bees dick, they are the first to get on the forum and say “see, see, I told you so, man that guy is lazy hahaha”, like there is some prize at the end of it all. Sorry man, but that’s just bullshit.
Look on the bright side. In a while the negative comments will be about the production, JLB and Mike Mangini, and no one will remember the cover. :lol
A 3D View From the Top of the 3D World + Hugh Syme's Fury
:rollin I love this post.
Would "Hugh Syme's Fury" be the bonus disc where Dream Theater goes a step further in the heaviness and makes hardcore metal songs in the style of bands like Between the Buried and Me?
I don't know how much of your post is directed at me, but I'll say this: Hugh Syme has been designing album cover artwork for 46 years (maybe even more). It is his profession. From past artwork (especially Rush), it is clear that it is something he took great care in doing. But that attention to detail is not what it once was. So if some, especially those like myself that are pretty familiar with Photoshop take issue with some details not right, why is it wrong to bring that up? They may not be glaring errors (although there was that issue with the s/t cover that was) but they are simple things that someone like him could easily fix, if he would take the time (no pun intended) to give the artwork a final once over before submitting the final version.Relax guys, no need to get all angry because some of us don't like Hugh Syme's art. In the end it's the music that matters.I couldn’t care less if you don’t like it, but there are better ways for people to articulate that. Most people are great, but then there are a bunch of comments which are childish and lame. It’s almost like the minute DT put out a Syme cover, there’s this thing where instead of saying “that’s overall pretty cool”, or “I’m not feeling this one as much”, they are like “here we go again with Syme, what can we find that’s wrong”. They’ll get out a microscope and nitpick every fucking detail. It’s like “Hugh Syme has got form of missing the last half centimetre of a shadow, so I’d better check every shadow on this new album art”. And if they find something off the size of a bees dick, they are the first to get on the forum and say “see, see, I told you so, man that guy is lazy hahaha”, like there is some prize at the end of it all. Sorry man, but that’s just bullshit.
For the record, I do like the cover art for this one and don't have a problem with it, aside from perhaps questioning the size of the child in relation to the viewfinder or whatever you call it (which is a minor quibble) and wondering if the 3D metallic style band logo was a good choice against that shade of blue since it seems a bit hard to read.
For the record, I do like the cover art for this one and don't have a problem with it, aside from perhaps questioning the size of the child in relation to the viewfinder or whatever you call it (which is a minor quibble) and wondering if the 3D metallic style band logo was a good choice against that shade of blue since it seems a bit hard to read.
I've been waiting for someone to say this.For the record, I do like the cover art for this one and don't have a problem with it, aside from perhaps questioning the size of the child in relation to the viewfinder or whatever you call it (which is a minor quibble) and wondering if the 3D metallic style band logo was a good choice against that shade of blue since it seems a bit hard to read.
*snip
I'd actually say that comparatively, a lot more work seems to have gone into, at the very least, the processing of an image like this one (though I'll acknowledge that the technology of today makes things more convenient). That's the thing though, his style often isn't to make things look photorealistic. The abstract visual choices and the highly saturated lighting should probably be clues to that. They've often had that slightly otherworldly and imperfect collage vibe where a lot of the elements seem to pop out that I've generally considered more of a feature than a flaw (barring a couple of the errors in DT12's art like the cut in the cover art or the guitar that clipped through). Of course, he does occassionally go for more of a realistic approach (Parallels) or to paint his art (Vapor Trails), but that seems to be judged on a case-by-case basis.
For the record, I do like the cover art for this one and don't have a problem with it, aside from perhaps questioning the size of the child in relation to the viewfinder or whatever you call it (which is a minor quibble) and wondering if the 3D metallic style band logo was a good choice against that shade of blue since it seems a bit hard to read.
^This is the only thing i really have an issue with. The child is proportionally WAY too small in relation to the viewfinder, and it doesn't take a lot of analysing to see that. The boots themselves are also not that pleasing to be such a focal point, although they do make sense with the whole "Sleeping Giant" thing. Other than that, i find it quite a pretty cover tbh.
There's something I've noticed about this forum in recent years (or maybe it goes back longer, but my memory is simply blurred by old age):
When people are happy/excited/stoked about a topic, they post something positive and move on.
But when people are annoyed/upset about a topic, they post again, and again, and again...compulsively restating the same thing over and over, until the 'need' for others to understand their opinion eclipses their original point.
This cover art is a great example.
I logged on here last week, saw the cover, thought, 'Man, that looks pretty cool,' posted my thoughts and moved on. From a quick glance of the pages that followed, it looks like dozens of other forumers share my sentiments.
But, I check back in a week later, and like clockwork, there are pages and pages devoted to 'shoddy' work that Syme has done. Now, far be it from me to critique how often anyone wants to state their displeasure with something, but I guess I'm one of those people that tends to invest 'less' time into things I don't like, not more.
Rather than write a dozen posts about how the shading in the spider's seventh leg doesn't line up with the light source, I'd rather hop on over to a different thread and drop some positive. But that's just me ;D
Either way, the eloquence with which some of you guys take this band to task is pretty damn entertaining.
Any idea when a single from the new album might be released?
Any idea when a single from the new album might be released?
My best guess would be one single per month before it’s released. Most bands do it that way plus MM said “not too too soon”. Not sure if it was on his IG or FB he said that. Considering AVFTTOTW is one of the shorter albums in terms of individual songs, we might just get one. How was it before BC&SL came out? I was a kid then, so I have no idea lol
Any idea when a single from the new album might be released?
My best guess would be one single per month before it’s released. Most bands do it that way plus MM said “not too too soon”. Not sure if it was on his IG or FB he said that. Considering AVFTTOTW is one of the shorter albums in terms of individual songs, we might just get one. How was it before BC&SL came out? I was a kid then, so I have no idea lol
Inside Out almost always releases 3 singles, so that's most likely what will happen. My bet is we get one this friday or next friday :tup
I think will get two singles until album release.
I hope the first within next Friday, but probably second half of August
Any idea when a single from the new album might be released?
My best guess would be one single per month before it’s released. Most bands do it that way plus MM said “not too too soon”. Not sure if it was on his IG or FB he said that. Considering AVFTTOTW is one of the shorter albums in terms of individual songs, we might just get one. How was it before BC&SL came out? I was a kid then, so I have no idea lol
Inside Out almost always releases 3 singles, so that's most likely what will happen. My bet is we get one this friday or next friday :tup
So we’ll get to hear almost half of the album before it’s released? I wouldn’t be complaining if that were the case! :biggrin:
Any idea when a single from the new album might be released?
My best guess would be one single per month before it’s released. Most bands do it that way plus MM said “not too too soon”. Not sure if it was on his IG or FB he said that. Considering AVFTTOTW is one of the shorter albums in terms of individual songs, we might just get one. How was it before BC&SL came out? I was a kid then, so I have no idea lol
Inside Out almost always releases 3 singles, so that's most likely what will happen. My bet is we get one this friday or next friday :tup
So we’ll get to hear almost half of the album before it’s released? I wouldn’t be complaining if that were the case! :biggrin:
If they pick the 3 shortest songs on the album to release as singles, it'll only be about 28-29% (about 20 minutes) of the album, nowhere near half.
Conversely, they could do single edits of some of the tracks and we'll hear even less of the song itself.
-Marc.
Here's my opinion that nobody asked for. The album cover looks fine, much nicer than the last few of Syme's DT artworks, but on the other hand, much worse than The Astonishing. The Astonishing artwork was simply... astounding
Here's my opinion that nobody asked for. The album cover looks fine, much nicer than the last few of Syme's DT artworks, but on the other hand, much worse than The Astonishing. The Astonishing artwork was simply...astoundingastonishing
With the size relation thing, I actually kinda like that exaggerated sense of scale. The tour art seems to go even further in regards to that.I get that - and especially with the child on the giant's shoe. But the child and viewfinder are "normal" size, so shouldn't the two items be consistent in scale? It's not like that tour art where it's a miniature child on top of a viewfinder.
As for the metallic logo, I do see where you're coming from, although it's one of those things where it looks pretty clear at a certain size (it looks just fine when it's the size of a desktop background, so maybe it was designed for a vinyl size), but the smaller it is, the harder it is to distinguish.Understood, but it is something to consider, because while vinyl has seen a resurgence, its sales are still relatively small compared to CD sales, and especially digital sales and streaming. OTOH, it also should be remembered that the artwork will be featured at a large scale on vinyl and maybe even some posters, so the smaller details should also be thought of, too.
I also wouldn't necessarily agree that Hugh's attention to detail has decreased over the years, because Permanent Waves' cover is simply a photo by Flip Schulke with three elements pasted on, with seemingly nothing other than a filter to blend them in (after all, he's pasted two of them in a convenient spot where the lack of shadows won't be noticable, but the newspaper actually sticks out for its lack of blending). A Farewell to Kings is similarly rough around the edges as a composite image.That may be true, but he didn't have Photoshop available to him in 1979, let alone 1977! ;) What can be done with manual photo composing is far more limited than what can be done since Photoshop developed into a powerful tool in the early 90s.
That's the thing though, his style often isn't to make things look photorealistic. The abstract visual choices and the highly saturated lighting should probably be clues to that.I beg to differ on that. While there is a certain amount of creativity obviously included, the majority of his artwork is intended to look photorealistic, or else he wouldn't constantly be using various photographic elements and manipulating them into the image so that (in general) they fit. Otherworldly does not mean non-photorealistic.
My main issue with detail nitpicking like this is the echo chamber amplification effect. A lot of those minuscule details would never be noticed by the majority of users until they're pointed out to them. And then, when it's pointed out to you, you can't help but seeing it. So you basically end up having something you enjoyed ruined by nitpickers, AND you feel stupid for liking it in the first place. And all of a sudden everyone are professional digital artists who "could do it much better"...You do bring up a good point, and I agree that there is the pile on effect where many end up taking it too far. But while I don't condone those that go too far with their criticisms (I'd like to think I'm not one of those who have, altho you and/or others might disagree) or blanket statements about how it "sucks", as was already pointed out, this is human nature especially in the world we live in now. So knowing that and that this artwork is going to be viewed by a very rabid fanbase that does tend to nitpick every detail, wouldn't it have been good for Hugh to make sure all those little details were resolved? It's not like this is the same as the artwork he's done for businesses where it's forgotten about weeks after it is published.
Honestly, given the vitriol Hugh Syme gets, I'm kind of surprised that the same sort of thing isn't directed towards Larry Freemantle whenever his work is brought up. Images and Words alone has like 3 different artstyles, worse perspective issues, a wonky majesty symbol, a lack of clarity in the logo and title and probably a few more things if I looked hard enough. Awake's mirror casts no shadows (it also looks like an asset from Diablo or something in the way it gleams garishly in contrast to the lighting of the rest of the image) and the spider's web finishes in the air. Syme would be verbally lynched here if he did a cover with those same qualities.The Awake cover doesn't really bother me altho I'm not big on that spider's web; I've always attributed the mirror to floating in space, so its shadow is outside the cropping of the image. But personally I've always had issues with the cover art for IaW and it's always ranked low for me because of the odd mix of styles used in it. I would love to see the cover redone properly in a photorealistic manner.
Also sure, DT could commission any number of relatively unknown artists... but Hugh Syme definitely has his own visual signature (that has come to be associated with the band), regardless of if it's to everyone's taste. Would your average unknown artist be as instantly recognisable (which ultimately, matters a lot when it comes to things like album art) as him? I kind of doubt that.Artwork by someone else may not be instantly recognizable, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The TA artwork was a real surprise for a lot of the fans and IIRC, one that was welcomed by the majority.
You know why I think that child is proportionally small?....It's to emphasize the size of the giants shoes.And that's fine - I don't have a problem with that. But IMO, the viewfinder could've been made just a wee bit smaller so that it was at the same scale as the child, since they're the same distance away from the person looking at the artwork. That said, it's a minor quibble that doesn't bother me much.
These small sized children are on the patch of land where the giant sleeps, which is on The Top of The World.
I get that - and especially with the child on the giant's shoe. But the child and viewfinder are "normal" size, so shouldn't the two items be consistent in scale? It's not like that tour art where it's a miniature child on top of a viewfinder.
I beg to differ on that. While there is a certain amount of creativity obviously included, the majority of his artwork is intended to look photorealistic, or else he wouldn't constantly be using various photographic elements and manipulating them into the image so that (in general) they fit. Otherworldly does not mean non-photorealistic.
That may be true, but he didn't have Photoshop available to him in 1979, let alone 1977! ;) What can be done with manual photo composing is far more limited than what can be done since Photoshop developed into a powerful tool in the early 90s.
(though I'll acknowledge that the technology of today makes things more convenient)
Artwork by someone else may not be instantly recognizable, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The TA artwork was a real surprise for a lot of the fans and IIRC, one that was welcomed by the majority.
The Awake cover doesn't really bother me altho I'm not big on that spider's web; I've always attributed the mirror to floating in space, so its shadow is outside the cropping of the image. But personally I've always had issues with the cover art for IaW and it's always ranked low for me because of the odd mix of styles used in it. I would love to see the cover redone properly in a photorealistic manner.
The Astonishing artwork was simply...Agreed. Absolutely that was the BEST thing about The Astonishing! :Pastoundingastonishing
so, with jordan posting a count of tuscany, john myung talking about the epic being hard to play live... perhaps we can get an epics live show?
Jordan is doing solo shows, so it’s possible he’s rehearsing Tuscany for those. I don’t recall any guys in DT giving away setlist info before a tour so I wouldn’t read too much into that. Plus an all epics show sounds like the most boring experience you could possibly design for a live show.
Jordan is doing solo shows, so it’s possible he’s rehearsing Tuscany for those. I don’t recall any guys in DT giving away setlist info before a tour so I wouldn’t read too much into that. Plus an all epics show sounds like the most boring experience you could possibly design for a live show.
I used to think that as well, but after Morsefest 2017, where night 1 saw the first 85 minutes (-ish) of the show feature a total of four songs, I changed my mind. If we can assume for the sake of argument that the long epic from the forthcoming album will be, at the very worst, very good, a back to back to back of The Count of Tuscany, the new epic and Octavarium could be pretty freaking sweet.
Jordan is doing solo shows, so it’s possible he’s rehearsing Tuscany for those. I don’t recall any guys in DT giving away setlist info before a tour so I wouldn’t read too much into that.
A Change Of Seasons : 23add the 12 steps suite as an encore lol
Six Degrees : 42
In The Name Of God : 14
Octavarium : 24
ITPOE : 25
The Count of Tuscany : 20
Illumination Theory : 23
A View From The Top Of The World : 20
That would be a 3 hour show. If they played non-stop.
Jordan is doing solo shows, so it’s possible he’s rehearsing Tuscany for those. I don’t recall any guys in DT giving away setlist info before a tour so I wouldn’t read too much into that. Plus an all epics show sounds like the most boring experience you could possibly design for a live show.
I used to think that as well, but after Morsefest 2017, where night 1 saw the first 85 minutes (-ish) of the show feature a total of four songs, I changed my mind. If we can assume for the sake of argument that the long epic from the forthcoming album will be, at the very worst, very good, a back to back to back of The Count of Tuscany, the new epic and Octavarium could be pretty freaking sweet.
Jordan is doing solo shows, so it’s possible he’s rehearsing Tuscany for those. I don’t recall any guys in DT giving away setlist info before a tour so I wouldn’t read too much into that. Plus an all epics show sounds like the most boring experience you could possibly design for a live show.
I used to think that as well, but after Morsefest 2017, where night 1 saw the first 85 minutes (-ish) of the show feature a total of four songs, I changed my mind. If we can assume for the sake of argument that the long epic from the forthcoming album will be, at the very worst, very good, a back to back to back of The Count of Tuscany, the new epic and Octavarium could be pretty freaking sweet.
They could include those two epics and play 4-5 songs from the new album, including the 20 min. title-epic.
I actually wouldn't mind that. That is dependent though on how good the new album is. What sucks about seeing them on their first show is I do not have much time to digest the new album before my first show, but will do my best to get familiar with the songs prior to the show.
I was made aware that the Cover image that we were given actual wasn't the final one - there was a more polished version available:
(https://i.imgur.com/oK9toz2.jpg)
Notice the dust and waterfall changes, the bird changes, and the shadows on the boots...
I was made aware that the Cover image that we were given actual wasn't the final one - there was a more polished version available:
(https://i.imgur.com/oK9toz2.jpg)
Notice the dust and waterfall changes, the bird changes, and the shadows on the boots...
I was made aware that the Cover image that we were given actual wasn't the final one - there was a more polished version available:
(https://i.imgur.com/oK9toz2.jpg)
Notice the dust and waterfall changes, the bird changes, and the shadows on the boots...
Another Hell's Kitchen would be nice.
It is a very nice cover. Reminds me of Octavarium and A Dramatic Turn of Evente - and yeah a soupcon of Falling Into Infinity.
Best Hugh cover since Octavarium for me.
Another Hell's Kitchen would be nice.
I was made aware that the Cover image that we were given actual wasn't the final one - there was a more polished version available:
(https://i.imgur.com/oK9toz2.jpg)
Notice the dust and waterfall changes, the bird changes, and the shadows on the boots...
What did the original one look like? I went back to the original post for the album cover on Page 64 of this thread and both images look completely identical.
I don't know how much of your post is directed at me, but I'll say this: Hugh Syme has been designing album cover artwork for 46 years (maybe even more). It is his profession. From past artwork (especially Rush), it is clear that it is something he took great care in doing. But that attention to detail is not what it once was. So if some, especially those like myself that are pretty familiar with Photoshop take issue with some details not right, why is it wrong to bring that up? They may not be glaring errors (although there was that issue with the s/t cover that was) but they are simple things that someone like him could easily fix, if he would take the time (no pun intended) to give the artwork a final once over before submitting the final version.Relax guys, no need to get all angry because some of us don't like Hugh Syme's art. In the end it's the music that matters.I couldn’t care less if you don’t like it, but there are better ways for people to articulate that. Most people are great, but then there are a bunch of comments which are childish and lame. It’s almost like the minute DT put out a Syme cover, there’s this thing where instead of saying “that’s overall pretty cool”, or “I’m not feeling this one as much”, they are like “here we go again with Syme, what can we find that’s wrong”. They’ll get out a microscope and nitpick every fucking detail. It’s like “Hugh Syme has got form of missing the last half centimetre of a shadow, so I’d better check every shadow on this new album art”. And if they find something off the size of a bees dick, they are the first to get on the forum and say “see, see, I told you so, man that guy is lazy hahaha”, like there is some prize at the end of it all. Sorry man, but that’s just bullshit.
And for those that say "it's just artwork - get a life!", don't forget that the cover art is a visual *representation* of the album. Yes the music is the most important thing - no argument there - but the cover is the first thing people see when looking at the album, especially vinyl with it's resurgence in popularity. Why wouldn't you want it to be the best it could be? First impressions are lasting.
For the record, I do like the cover art for this one and don't have a problem with it, aside from perhaps questioning the size of the child in relation to the viewfinder or whatever you call it (which is a minor quibble) and wondering if the 3D metallic style band logo was a good choice against that shade of blue since it seems a bit hard to read.
Another Hell's Kitchen would be nice.
Another cool but relatively bland instrumental lifted from a song where it didn't belong, and with the best part tackled onto the end just to make it flow into another song? no thanks :D
Maybe it's a social experiment by noxon to get people to appreciate the "new cover" while it's actually the same one ;D
Another Hell's Kitchen would be nice.
Another cool but relatively bland instrumental lifted from a song where it didn't belong, and with the best part tackled onto the end just to make it flow into another song? no thanks :D
Hell's Kitchen is fantastic. One of the few instances I can think of where Dream Theater exercises a lot of restraint and commits to building up a single idea over the course of an instrumental section (and they build it up wonderfully) rather than stringing a bunch of different ideas together or vamping on the same riff for a while without any real changes in intensity. I don't understand anyone who criticizes the song for being too repetitive (which maybe you're not, but I've seen that take around here before).
So yes, more Hell's Kitchen would be nice.
What did the original one look like? I went back to the original post for the album cover on Page 64 of this thread and both images look completely identical.
DT Socials and Website:
(https://i.imgur.com/AdxxjHR.jpg)
Press Release (And actual Final Version):
(https://i.imgur.com/oK9toz2.jpg)
Another Hell's Kitchen would be nice.
Album art Patch Notes:
- Increased camera FOV slightly
- Fog (mist?) at the bottom removed to prevent an exploit
- Waterfall VFX improved (droplets now visible)
- Bird has been buffed, now slightly larger
- Color balance is slightly more blueish
- Album text is slightly less bold (anti-accessibility feature)
From what I can see, the shoe laces now have their own shadows too.
Maybe it’s just because I’m on my phone, but I still can’t tell any difference and I’ve been staring at them for five minutes.
Maybe it’s just because I’m on my phone, but I still can’t tell any difference and I’ve been staring at them for five minutes.
Me too...and I'm on a desktop.
To paraphrase Joey Tribbiani: Looks exactly the same to me!
Album art Patch Notes:
- Increased camera FOV slightly
- Fog (mist?) at the bottom removed to prevent an exploit
- Waterfall VFX improved (droplets now visible)
- Bird has been buffed, now slightly larger
- Color balance is slightly more blueish
- Album text is slightly less bold (anti-accessibility feature)
I was made aware that the Cover image that we were given actual wasn't the final one - there was a more polished version available:
(https://i.imgur.com/oK9toz2.jpg)
Notice the dust and waterfall changes, the bird changes, and the shadows on the boots...
One of the things I was pondering on doing as hints for the song titles were movie posters, so I’d do the alien, ghostbusters, hollow man, jack and the beanstalk, back to the future, dracula, and Everest….I don't know if anyone praised it before, but I think the way the pre-announcement of the album was made was much more inclusive, compared to the treasure hunt of the previous album that really was only for DT fans computer geeks. Heck, there was even an emoji guessing, something I play a lot with my 7-year-old son! So, thanks for that, noxon, really nice!
One of the things I was pondering on doing as hints for the song titles were movie posters, so I’d do the alien, ghostbusters, hollow man, jack and the beanstalk, back to the future, dracula, and Everest….I don't know if anyone praised it before, but I think the way the pre-announcement of the album was made was much more inclusive, compared to the treasure hunt of the previous album that really was only for DT fans computer geeks. Heck, there was even an emoji guessing, something I play a lot with my 7-year-old son! So, thanks for that, noxon, really nice!
What did the original one look like? I went back to the original post for the album cover on Page 64 of this thread and both images look completely identical.
DT Socials and Website:
(https://i.imgur.com/AdxxjHR.jpg)
Press Release (And actual Final Version):
(https://i.imgur.com/oK9toz2.jpg)
While I can definitely see the cleaner version, the first pic that came out on page 64 of this thread had the better version, so that’s what I’ve been looking at the whole time if that’s worth anything. And yep, still think it’s a ripping cover :metal
" A View To A Kill " featuring Kevin " Roger " Moore.Call me James, darling, it's five days to Ravenskill.
interesting to see the spider left the building again.
I was made aware that the Cover image that we were given actual wasn't the final one - there was a more polished version available:Very nice! A much cleaner look. :tup
(https://i.imgur.com/oK9toz2.jpg)
Notice the dust and waterfall changes, the bird changes, and the shadows on the boots...
Wait till you hear the new album. Use good headphones because you know I've put in some "stuff" that has always gone several decibels way too low under the radar in the final mixes. This one... you'll like.
I predict the first single will be released next Friday (13th August). Why do I think this? Yes’ single “The Ice Bridge” was released on the 23rd July, their album is due 1st October.. 3 weeks before Dream Theater, add the 3 weeks and we get next Friday. Will I be wrong? Probably but it’s fun to speculate I suppose…And I still think it will be released this Friday. Why? Because UA was released on December 7th, 2018 and D/T was released on February 22nd, 2019. Assuming the first single would be released August 6th and the album is released October 22nd, then it's the same pattern. Makes sense so far?
I predict the first single will be released next Friday (13th August). Why do I think this? Yes’ single “The Ice Bridge” was released on the 23rd July, their album is due 1st October.. 3 weeks before Dream Theater, add the 3 weeks and we get next Friday. Will I be wrong? Probably but it’s fun to speculate I suppose…And I still think it will be released this Friday. Why? Because UA was released on December 7th, 2018 and D/T was released on February 22nd, 2019. Assuming the first single would be released August 6th and the album is released October 22nd, then it's the same pattern. Makes sense so far?
Want another hype guys and spoiler alert? JM did an interview with Metalzone where he was asked which songs were (would be) the hardest for him to play live. He chose 5 among which AVFTTOTW : in the middle section or somewhere close, there is a ... . Love it!
B.Lee
Sorry, guys, don't know how to hide a spoiler...xD. I'll try : [spoiler]crap[/spoiler] Nope, doesn't work...lol
I like the cover and look forward to hear the album. Can't wait to hear a first single to get an idea of what we can expect! I loved Distance over Time, so I have a good feeling about this album.And I like the cover too and I hated D/T, so I have a good feeling about A View too. The excitement continues to build.
Want another hype guys and spoiler alert? JM did an interview with Metalzone where he was asked which songs were (would be) the hardest for him to play live. He chose 5 among which AVFTTOTW : in the middle section or somewhere close, there is a ... . Love it!
B.Lee
Sorry, guys, don't know how to hide a spoiler...xD. I'll try : [spoiler]crap[/spoiler] Nope, doesn't work...lol
do it like this
[ size=1pt ] here be dragons [ /size ]
here be dragons
do it like this
[ size=1pt ] here be dragons [ /size ]
here be dragons
Thanx, Mr Kotow! Ok, so, [ size=1pt ]snip[ /size ]. Me like it! Holy F***, cannot make it work!
B.Lee
do it like this
[ size=1pt ] here be dragons [ /size ]
here be dragons
Thanx, Mr Kotow! Ok, so, [ size=1pt ]snip[ /size ]. Me like it! Holy F***, cannot make it work!
B.Lee
Remove the spaces between the brackets and the text. So for example, it would be [/size] for the end of the text you want to mark as spoilers.
Man finally some news about the new DT album. So many things happened when I was out on vacation. Did I miss a preorder page being up? or those haven't been out yet right? I don't find anything on the official site.no pre order link page yet no, sorry. Nowadays they are live in conjunction with the first single (which I hope will be this Friday)
After an album with short concise songs, I'm ready for an all out epic album.
Another Hell's Kitchen would be nice.
I think there will be no instrumentals…
The hype intensifies, from Mike's facebook page (in a comment when asked about cymbal placement):QuoteWait till you hear the new album. Use good headphones because you know I've put in some "stuff" that has always gone several decibels way too low under the radar in the final mixes. This one... you'll like.
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
The hype intensifies, from Mike's facebook page (in a comment when asked about cymbal placement):QuoteWait till you hear the new album. Use good headphones because you know I've put in some "stuff" that has always gone several decibels way too low under the radar in the final mixes. This one... you'll like.
This actually makes me concerned for the production values of the new album, and Mangini-era DT doesn't have the best track record with that.
TA is the only modern album I think has decent production, but even then, you get things like the intro NOMAC track going into the overture, and it's painful how much the low end doesn't hold up (someone here explained it better somewhat recently), and unfortunately it's the band's worst album imo. I don't think DoT's sound quality is as top notch as others claim it is, either. It's just not as bad as DT12's production. It's still mixed too loud and hot.
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
The hype intensifies, from Mike's facebook page (in a comment when asked about cymbal placement):QuoteWait till you hear the new album. Use good headphones because you know I've put in some "stuff" that has always gone several decibels way too low under the radar in the final mixes. This one... you'll like.
This actually makes me concerned for the production values of the new album, and Mangini-era DT doesn't have the best track record with that.
TA is the only modern album I think has decent production, but even then, you get things like the intro NOMAC track going into the overture, and it's painful how much the low end doesn't hold up (someone here explained it better somewhat recently), and unfortunately it's the band's worst album imo. I don't think DoT's sound quality is as top notch as others claim it is, either. It's just not as bad as DT12's production. It's still mixed too loud and hot.
I think with Andy Sneap mixing, we’ll hear everything worth hearing. Terminal Velocity is the best sounding thing Petrucci has done in over a decade.
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
He's a pretty big name in the guitar world. Especially among younger guitar guitarists. Might get some newer, younger fans interested in the band
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
I don't think a guy using the word 'badass' should be given much credibility.
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
I don't think a guy using the word 'badass' should be given much credibility.
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
I don't think a guy using the word 'badass' should be given much credibility.
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
I don't think a guy using the word 'badass' should be given much credibility.
Yea, because these boards always have everything articulated so eloquently and we are all completely above that here…
:lol No kidding! We all know that BAD-ARSE is the proper eloquent, sophisticated, and proper way to decribe musical genious straight from the Ge-filter!Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
I don't think a guy using the word 'badass' should be given much credibility.
Yea, because these boards always have everything articulated so eloquently and we are all completely above that here…
Am I the only one who doesn’t care about the whole 8-string thing?
Am I the only one who doesn’t care about the whole 8-string thing?
Am I the only one who doesn’t care about the whole 8-string thing?
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
I don't think a guy using the word 'badass' should be given much credibility.
Yea, because these boards always have everything articulated so eloquently and we are all completely above that here…
Am I the only one who doesn’t care about the whole 8-string thing?
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
I’ve never heard of him but it’s better than someone saying “I’ve heard the album and it sucks”
Quote from Jason Reeves Richardson on Instagram , who presumably has heard it at JPGU : 'I can personally attest that this whole album is very, very badass'
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
I’ve never heard of him but it’s better than someone saying “I’ve heard the album and it sucks”
Well, he was, of course, never going to say that and bite the hand that feeds him regardless of what he thought of it (and I'm sure he did indeed think it was "bad ass").
JP's already said that he'll approach it the same way he did when he got a 7-string: that it expands the range of what he can do. Pretty sure that there will be little to no djenty stuff and that he will use it in a creative way.Am I the only one who doesn’t care about the whole 8-string thing?Well...I am actually a bit worried...
I barely stand most of 7-strings guitar staff, and the few things I've heard around played on 8 strings are really meh...
I am very happy that in his latest works JP has limited the amount of 7 strings.
I hope I will have a creative approach with the 8-string, and not the usual chugga-chugga riffing
JP's already said that he'll approach it the same way he did when he got a 7-string: that it expands the range of what he can do. Pretty sure that there will be little to no djenty stuff and that he will use it in a creative way.Am I the only one who doesn’t care about the whole 8-string thing?Well...I am actually a bit worried...
I barely stand most of 7-strings guitar staff, and the few things I've heard around played on 8 strings are really meh...
I am very happy that in his latest works JP has limited the amount of 7 strings.
I hope I will have a creative approach with the 8-string, and not the usual chugga-chugga riffing
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
The real question is, "What kind of a deluxe collector's edition will they be releasing and how long after the general release will we actually get it?" :censored
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
He’s been a huge DT fan since he was a kid, so he’s not just some guy who heard it and thought it was good, he knows what a good DT album sounds like.
That and the fact that he’s heard the new album and you haven’t, so you might as well take his opinion anyway.
The real question is, "What kind of a deluxe collector's edition will they be releasing and how long after the general release will we actually get it?" :censored
I want a nice gatefold Digipak with a 90 minute in the studio DVD.
Am I the only one who doesn’t care about the whole 8-string thing?
Nope. To me, it's like, Oh Mangini has a 17th drum.
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
He’s been a huge DT fan since he was a kid, so he’s not just some guy who heard it and thought it was good, he knows what a good DT album sounds like.
That and the fact that he’s heard the new album and you haven’t, so you might as well take his opinion anyway.
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
He’s been a huge DT fan since he was a kid, so he’s not just some guy who heard it and thought it was good, he knows what a good DT album sounds like.
That and the fact that he’s heard the new album and you haven’t, so you might as well take his opinion anyway.
Nope. I like what I like and what I like isn't related to what others like in any way, shape or form. TAC and I have this discussion all the time; we have a LOT of bands in common that we adore, and yet my "favorite" song lists are invariably very close to his "least favorite" song lists.
If we listened to what others said and liked, we'd be at the Justin Beiber Forum, not the Dream Theater Forum. No offense to him, he's probably an AMAZING player, but I'm glad he likes it, but that's as far as it goes. Mike Portnoy is top four favorite drummers of all time and probably top five favorite musicians of all time, and yet he rates "OK Computer" as one of his ten best records ever, and to me it's a steaming pile of unlistenable horse feces (and I'm being kind).
Winger's first album.
Am I the only one who doesn’t care about the whole 8-string thing?
Nope. To me, it's like, Oh Mangini has a 17th drum.
Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?
He’s been a huge DT fan since he was a kid, so he’s not just some guy who heard it and thought it was good, he knows what a good DT album sounds like.
That and the fact that he’s heard the new album and you haven’t, so you might as well take his opinion anyway.
Nope. I like what I like and what I like isn't related to what others like in any way, shape or form. TAC and I have this discussion all the time; we have a LOT of bands in common that we adore, and yet my "favorite" song lists are invariably very close to his "least favorite" song lists.
If we listened to what others said and liked, we'd be at the Justin Beiber Forum, not the Dream Theater Forum. No offense to him, he's probably an AMAZING player, but I'm glad he likes it, but that's as far as it goes. Mike Portnoy is top four favorite drummers of all time and probably top five favorite musicians of all time, and yet he rates "OK Computer" as one of his ten best records ever, and to me it's a steaming pile of unlistenable horse feces (and I'm being kind).
I’ve never heard of him but it’s better than someone saying “I’ve heard the album and it sucks”
Jason was a teacher at all three JPGU camps..
That oughta tell you enough, to be fair...
"Jason is a super-shredder. . . .
Am I the only one who doesn’t care about the whole 8-string thing?
That and the fact that he’s heard the new album and you haven’t, so you might as well take his opinion anyway.
When you voice your opinion about the new record, I'm not going to stick around saying: Who is this guy? Who is Stadler? Why the hell should I pay attention to his opinion? Why is his opinion worth anything?
My point is: why such resistance to a slight opinion given by a guitarist who works with JP? Not that it is ultra important, but all this effort on the last pages to disqualify is unnecessary.
Hot damn, all Jason Richardson did was state his opinion on the album, then a tide of "well, who gives a shit about what he thinks?". You can take or leave what he thinks about the album, but some of the active diminishing of his opinion seems a bit mean-spirited and contrarian. I get it, it might not be perhaps the most insightful comment about the new album but 1. we haven't really got much else to talk about, so for me this is another little nugget of hype and 2. you don't have to point out that you don't care. Just shrug and move on. Much like Dedalus said, if someone voiced their opinion of the album to you and you flat out said "Nope. I like what I like and what I like isn't related to what others like in any way, shape or form" or "I don't care what you have to say because you play / listen to x style of music", it would probably feel a bit rude. Granted, Jason probably doesn't frequent the forum, but still. This is a guy who knows his craft choosing to complement the band when he didn't have to, like MarkFitDT said. Even if I didn't think his opinion held much weight, I'd at least try to stick with the mindset of "great that he's enjoying it, hope we'll feel the same way" rather than participating in active dismissal.
Hot damn, all Jason Richardson did was state his opinion on the album, then a tide of "well, who gives a shit about what he thinks?". You can take or leave what he thinks about the album, but some of the active diminishing of his opinion seems a bit mean-spirited and contrarian. I get it, it might not be perhaps the most insightful comment about the new album but 1. we haven't really got much else to talk about, so for me this is another little nugget of hype and 2. you don't have to point out that you don't care. Just shrug and move on. Much like Dedalus said, if someone voiced their opinion of the album to you and you flat out said "Nope. I like what I like and what I like isn't related to what others like in any way, shape or form" or "I don't care what you have to say because you play / listen to x style of music", it would probably feel a bit rude. Granted, Jason probably doesn't frequent the forum, but still. This is a guy who knows his craft choosing to complement the band when he didn't have to, like MarkFitDT said. Even if I didn't think his opinion held much weight, I'd at least try to stick with the mindset of "great that he's enjoying it, hope we'll feel the same way" rather than participating in active dismissal.
I didn't realise how much one positive sentence from someone who has heard the album was going to irk some people! Its a thread about the new album so thought it valid to post his comment on here especially when none of us, save Noxon, have heard anything from the album. i didn't quite expect the "Who the f**k is he", "I don't give a s**t what he thinks" and "he's only doing it because he doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him" comments when posting a positive comment! Understand not everyone will hear things the same way as him (and no doubt there will be a forensic analysis and a multitude of opinions on here when we do hear it both good and bad) but its far better than "well that was a steaming pile of s**t"!!
Hot damn, all Jason Richardson did was state his opinion on the album, then a tide of "well, who gives a shit about what he thinks?". You can take or leave what he thinks about the album, but some of the active diminishing of his opinion seems a bit mean-spirited and contrarian. I get it, it might not be perhaps the most insightful comment about the new album but 1. we haven't really got much else to talk about, so for me this is another little nugget of hype and 2. you don't have to point out that you don't care. Just shrug and move on. Much like Dedalus said, if someone voiced their opinion of the album to you and you flat out said "Nope. I like what I like and what I like isn't related to what others like in any way, shape or form" or "I don't care what you have to say because you play / listen to x style of music", it would probably feel a bit rude. Granted, Jason probably doesn't frequent the forum, but still. This is a guy who knows his craft choosing to complement the band when he didn't have to, like MarkFitDT said. Even if I didn't think his opinion held much weight, I'd at least try to stick with the mindset of "great that he's enjoying it, hope we'll feel the same way" rather than participating in active dismissal.
"he's only doing it because he doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him"
When you voice your opinion about the new record, I'm not going to stick around saying: Who is this guy? Who is Stadler? Why the hell should I pay attention to his opinion? Why is his opinion worth anything?
If reviews or the opinions of others are at all meaningful to you (and I don't know if they are or aren't and am not say one way or the other whether they should be), then you ABSOLUTELY SHOULD be questioning who the reviewer is and why his or her opinion should be meaningful to you. If a particular critic expresses views about music or movies or whatever that are generally in line with your own opinions, then you ought to value that critic's opinions more highly than someone you've never heard of and know nothing about. It can even work in reverse. If we suddenly unearth a lost Yes album from the '70s and Robert Cristgau says it's great, that means I'm probably not going to like it.
"he's only doing it because he doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him"
Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the wee donkey! That is not what I said, fella :lol
Come on DT. Just release a song so we all can hear how badass the song is.
Apologies if my comment about 8 strings contributed to the negativity. I'm actually really excited for the new album. And while I don't think that using 8 strings guitar will make things inherently better or worse, the fact that JP is experimenting with it and that if remember correctly Jordan has reworked his keyboards sounds for the album makes me hopeful that we will have some nice surprises as it implies they're willing to try new things.
I think we'll still get some of his more typical sounds, but I would certainly be really interested in hearing him do what you're proposing.
I’ve never heard of him but it’s better than someone saying “I’ve heard the album and it sucks”
Honestly, not really. I could find plenty of people who think SFAM sucks.
Hot damn, all Jason Richardson did was state his opinion on the album, then a tide of "well, who gives a shit about what he thinks?". You can take or leave what he thinks about the album, but some of the active diminishing of his opinion seems a bit mean-spirited and contrarian. I get it, it might not be perhaps the most insightful comment about the new album but 1. we haven't really got much else to talk about, so for me this is another little nugget of hype and 2. you don't have to point out that you don't care. Just shrug and move on. Much like Dedalus said, if someone voiced their opinion of the album to you and you flat out said "Nope. I like what I like and what I like isn't related to what others like in any way, shape or form" or "I don't care what you have to say because you play / listen to x style of music", it would probably feel a bit rude. Granted, Jason probably doesn't frequent the forum, but still. This is a guy who knows his craft choosing to complement the band when he didn't have to, like MarkFitDT said. Even if I didn't think his opinion held much weight, I'd at least try to stick with the mindset of "great that he's enjoying it, hope we'll feel the same way" rather than participating in active dismissal.
I didn't realise how much one positive sentence from someone who has heard the album was going to irk some people! Its a thread about the new album so thought it valid to post his comment on here especially when none of us, save Noxon, have heard anything from the album. i didn't quite expect the "Who the f**k is he", "I don't give a s**t what he thinks" and "he's only doing it because he doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him" comments when posting a positive comment! Understand not everyone will hear things the same way as him (and no doubt there will be a forensic analysis and a multitude of opinions on here when we do hear it both good and bad) but its far better than "well that was a steaming pile of s**t"!!
Hot damn, all Jason Richardson did was state his opinion on the album, then a tide of "well, who gives a shit about what he thinks?". You can take or leave what he thinks about the album, but some of the active diminishing of his opinion seems a bit mean-spirited and contrarian. I get it, it might not be perhaps the most insightful comment about the new album but 1. we haven't really got much else to talk about, so for me this is another little nugget of hype and 2. you don't have to point out that you don't care. Just shrug and move on. Much like Dedalus said, if someone voiced their opinion of the album to you and you flat out said "Nope. I like what I like and what I like isn't related to what others like in any way, shape or form" or "I don't care what you have to say because you play / listen to x style of music", it would probably feel a bit rude. Granted, Jason probably doesn't frequent the forum, but still. This is a guy who knows his craft choosing to complement the band when he didn't have to, like MarkFitDT said. Even if I didn't think his opinion held much weight, I'd at least try to stick with the mindset of "great that he's enjoying it, hope we'll feel the same way" rather than participating in active dismissal.
I didn't realise how much one positive sentence from someone who has heard the album was going to irk some people! Its a thread about the new album so thought it valid to post his comment on here especially when none of us, save Noxon, have heard anything from the album. i didn't quite expect the "Who the f**k is he", "I don't give a s**t what he thinks" and "he's only doing it because he doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him" comments when posting a positive comment! Understand not everyone will hear things the same way as him (and no doubt there will be a forensic analysis and a multitude of opinions on here when we do hear it both good and bad) but its far better than "well that was a steaming pile of s**t"!!
HAHA, that's too much. Seriously. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, all I said was, basically, I'm going to trust my own ears. It's that simple. if someone finds that rude, well, I can't control that; it certainly wasn't intended that way. I wish no ill will to Jason whatever, and I'm sure he's a smart, aware, talented guy. I know PLENTY of smart, aware, talented people and we don't agree on what we like in music. That's all I was saying. I would absolutely, 100% say right to his face "Dude, it's cool you heard some new music you like. I can't wait to hear it for myself to make my own determination." If one wants to let their opinions be influenced by what someone else says, more power to you. Have at it and have fun! Anything else that anyone is taking from what I said is on them, not me.
Mate no one is saying anything about Jason’s comment about the album being good influencing their own opinion, it’s just nice to hear a positive comment on an unreleased album. How hard is that to grasp?
HAHA, that's too much. Seriously. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, all I said was, basically, I'm going to trust my own ears. It's that simple. if someone finds that rude, well, I can't control that; it certainly wasn't intended that way. I wish no ill will to Jason whatever, and I'm sure he's a smart, aware, talented guy. I know PLENTY of smart, aware, talented people and we don't agree on what we like in music. That's all I was saying. I would absolutely, 100% say right to his face "Dude, it's cool you heard some new music you like. I can't wait to hear it for myself to make my own determination." If one wants to let their opinions be influenced by what someone else says, more power to you. Have at it and have fun! Anything else that anyone is taking from what I said is on them, not me.
Bosk1 wrote a review for The Great Adventure album. He really liked the record, I thought it was mediocre. But unlike a certain guitarist's wife, I found it very interesting to read the review, even though we have different opinions about the record. If he writes a review about the next record, I'll be happy to read it too.
At least in my opinion, I don't think it's a case of basing my opinions on others (although certainly we're all influenced by some opinions, it's foolish to think otherwise), but I'm interested in knowing them. Why the hell would I be on a fucking forum?
Mate no one is saying anything about Jason’s comment about the album being good influencing their own opinion, it’s just nice to hear a positive comment on an unreleased album. How hard is that to grasp?
Hot damn, all Jason Richardson did was state his opinion on the album, then a tide of "well, who gives a shit about what he thinks?". You can take or leave what he thinks about the album, but some of the active diminishing of his opinion seems a bit mean-spirited and contrarian.
I’ve never heard of him but it’s better than someone saying “I’ve heard the album and it sucks”
Honestly, not really. I could find plenty of people who think SFAM sucks.
Really? I mean, don’t get me wrong, just because someone else likes something, it doesn’t mean I’m going to so I’m not pinning all my hopes on this one dude who’s friends with JP liking it. In the run up to an album release though, it would dampen my excitement a little if everyone who heard and reviewed it was saying it was shite. It’s still better to me if I’m hearing positive word of mouth.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, just because someone else likes something, it doesn’t mean I’m going to so I’m not pinning all my hopes on this one dude who’s friends with JP liking it. In the run up to an album release though, it would dampen my excitement a little if everyone who heard and reviewed it was saying it was shite. It’s still better to me if I’m hearing positive word of mouth.
I'm sure you meant no ill will towards Jason, but I do question why you, among others, feel the need to clarify that you do not care for his opinion.
HAHA, that's too much. Seriously. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, all I said was, basically, I'm going to trust my own ears. It's that simple. if someone finds that rude, well, I can't control that; it certainly wasn't intended that way. I wish no ill will to Jason whatever, and I'm sure he's a smart, aware, talented guy. I know PLENTY of smart, aware, talented people and we don't agree on what we like in music. That's all I was saying. I would absolutely, 100% say right to his face "Dude, it's cool you heard some new music you like. I can't wait to hear it for myself to make my own determination." If one wants to let their opinions be influenced by what someone else says, more power to you. Have at it and have fun! Anything else that anyone is taking from what I said is on them, not me.
I'm sure you meant no ill will towards Jason, but I do question why you, among others, feel the need to clarify that you do not care for his opinion. You say you're going to trust your own ears when you listen to it... which, good for you I guess? Pretty sure we'll all be doing that by the time the music's actually out though, we're not just going to be subscribing to pre-approved opinions just because somebody cool said them, but whatever. However, this leads me to ask what you're doing commenting within the hype cycle before any of the tracks are actually released. Gathering snippets of what people say here and there is par for the course for these sorts of cycles. If you don't care for the details of that then fine, but for people to announce that they don't care, that can often feel like a pointless dampener. With anyone who says that when something perfectly on topic is being brought up... I feel the need to say that you're probably in the wrong conversation and should discuss something you're actually interested in instead. It's not like any valuable insight is provided at these expressions of disinterest, unlike what may be offered with constructive criticism of artwork or new music.
HAHA, that's too much. Seriously. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, all I said was, basically, I'm going to trust my own ears. It's that simple. if someone finds that rude, well, I can't control that; it certainly wasn't intended that way. I wish no ill will to Jason whatever, and I'm sure he's a smart, aware, talented guy. I know PLENTY of smart, aware, talented people and we don't agree on what we like in music. That's all I was saying. I would absolutely, 100% say right to his face "Dude, it's cool you heard some new music you like. I can't wait to hear it for myself to make my own determination." If one wants to let their opinions be influenced by what someone else says, more power to you. Have at it and have fun! Anything else that anyone is taking from what I said is on them, not me.
I'm sure you meant no ill will towards Jason, but I do question why you, among others, feel the need to clarify that you do not care for his opinion. You say you're going to trust your own ears when you listen to it... which, good for you I guess? Pretty sure we'll all be doing that by the time the music's actually out though, we're not just going to be subscribing to pre-approved opinions just because somebody cool said them, but whatever. However, this leads me to ask what you're doing commenting within the hype cycle before any of the tracks are actually released. Gathering snippets of what people say here and there is par for the course for these sorts of cycles. If you don't care for the details of that then fine, but for people to announce that they don't care, that can often feel like a pointless dampener. With anyone who says that when something perfectly on topic is being brought up... I feel the need to say that you're probably in the wrong conversation and should discuss something you're actually interested in instead. It's not like any valuable insight is provided at these expressions of disinterest, unlike what may be offered with constructive criticism of artwork or new music.
I read this for information, not the hype. I can be excited, too. This is the second record in the Mangini era that I am actually VERY excited for. This is the conversation about the new album, so I would offer that I'm in the exact right conversation.
But for better or worse, I have a decidedly different viewpoint than, it seems, many people. I actually trust my ears, and like what I like, whether it's DT, or country, or Taylor Swift, or even some Justin Beiber. I'm happy when other people get joy from music, whatever it may be, but while other people are apparently offering up what jazzes them about the new release, I don't see why what jazzes me is any less important than anyone else. It's not that I don't care for his opinion, it's just that it's meaningless to me as anything BUT his opinion; yet it's offered here as if it DOES matter. FOR ME, I'm not a kid anymore, I have thousands of CDs, and tens of thousands of songs on my iPod. A "20 minute song" means NOTHING to me; I have probably 50 songs of that length that kick ass on my iPod, and 50 more that suck balls. People here seem to jazzed about that. OK, that's cool; I'm not here to shit on that, but I don't see why putting it out there that it's not a factor for me is "raining on anyone's parade". You like what you like, so own it. Same with 7, 8, and more string guitar; I have songs with that onistrument that are amazing, and songs that bite it with the same instrument. if you like that, cool! Own it! And same with some dude that's amazing on guitar loving it. As was said, it's not that hard to grasp. :) :) :)
I'm not sure if I'm one of the "others" mentioned here, but I feel compelled to point out that I merely asked who this guy was (yesterday afternoon) and then (this morning, after a whole bunch of comments by others) explained why it matters to me who he is and why his status as a "super-shredder" makes his opinion less meaningful to me. Honestly
Anyway...this is why I usually avoid these album build-up discussions, so I'll go back to doing so.
I read this for information, not the hype. I can be excited, too. This is the second record in the Mangini era that I am actually VERY excited for. This is the conversation about the new album, so I would offer that I'm in the exact right conversation.
But for better or worse, I have a decidedly different viewpoint than, it seems, many people. I actually trust my ears, and like what I like, whether it's DT, or country, or Taylor Swift, or even some Justin Beiber.
It's not that I don't care for his opinion, it's just that it's meaningless to me as anything BUT his opinion; yet it's offered here as if it DOES matter.
FOR ME, I'm not a kid anymore, I have thousands of CDs, and tens of thousands of songs on my iPod. A "20 minute song" means NOTHING to me; I have probably 50 songs of that length that kick ass on my iPod, and 50 more that suck balls. People here seem to jazzed about that.
I'm not here to shit on that, but I don't see why putting it out there that it's not a factor for me is "raining on anyone's parade". You like what you like, so own it. Same with 7, 8, and more string guitar; I have songs with that onistrument that are amazing, and songs that bite it with the same instrument. if you like that, cool! Own it! And same with some dude that's amazing on guitar loving it. As was said, it's not that hard to grasp. :) :) :)
I'm not sure if I'm one of the "others" mentioned here, but I feel compelled to point out that I merely asked who this guy was (yesterday afternoon) and then (this morning, after a whole bunch of comments by others) explained why it matters to me who he is and why his status as a "super-shredder" makes his opinion less meaningful to me. Honestly
Anyway...this is why I usually avoid these album build-up discussions, so I'll go back to doing so.
Maybe it's not what you intended, but "Is he someone who's opinion should matter to anyone?" came off like a pretty dismissive comment right from the outset, as opposed to something like "Haven't heard of him, what's he been involved in? Am curious what point of view he's coming from". Plus, not to be condescending but... Google and YouTube exist. It would take the same amount of effort as questioning whether his opinion is worth anything in the first place before even knowing who he is. Even then, something like "Not personally a big fan of his music, so am not sure what this means for the album's quality, though glad he likes it and I respect his talent." would've came off less judgemental.
But for better or worse, I have a decidedly different viewpoint than, it seems, many people. I actually trust my ears, and like what I like, whether it's DT, or country, or Taylor Swift, or even some Justin Beiber.
But you really don't, though... as others have said, we all trust our own opinions on the music. Having that characteristic doesn't make you unique. Just because someone is hyped by what someone else says even if it lacks concrete information, it doesn't mean that they'll be beholden to that. All it does is just set expectations, which may either be met or missed, such as in Ben_Jamin's example ("That guy was wrong. This is not badass. This is shit.").
It's not that I don't care for his opinion, it's just that it's meaningless to me as anything BUT his opinion; yet it's offered here as if it DOES matter.
...Except it wasn't? All MarkFitDT did was literally just quote him. He didn't spotlight it like "guys, look at this! new news!", just a little tidbit.
I'm not here to shit on that, but I don't see why putting it out there that it's not a factor for me is "raining on anyone's parade". You like what you like, so own it. Same with 7, 8, and more string guitar; I have songs with that onistrument that are amazing, and songs that bite it with the same instrument. if you like that, cool! Own it! And same with some dude that's amazing on guitar loving it. As was said, it's not that hard to grasp. :) :) :)
Honestly, if it was just you (and it wasn't), I don't think me and others would be quite as fed up with that kind of thing. I haven't really minded it when you've expressed disinterest at long songs before, for instance. It was more that it was a loop of people just saying (paraphrasing of course) "why should I take this guy seriously?", "is it just me that doesn't care?" "I trust my own ears, thank you very much" that it just kinda became a noise of apathy and perhaps it kind of became the final straw, as such. I wouldn't take it personally, it just kind of collectively became annoying.
So, in a half-arsed attempt at removing some heat and moving the conversation on: I've decided I won't listen to any of the advance tracks this time. Anyone else doing the same?
So, in a half-arsed attempt at removing some heat and moving the conversation on: I've decided I won't listen to any of the advance tracks this time. Anyone else doing the same?
I'm going to listen to them as much as I can :biggrin:
So, in a half-arsed attempt at removing some heat and moving the conversation on: I've decided I won't listen to any of the advance tracks this time. Anyone else doing the same?
I'm going to listen to them as much as I can :biggrin:
I would absolutely love to listen to 7 brand new songs on October 22...So, in a half-arsed attempt at removing some heat and moving the conversation on: I've decided I won't listen to any of the advance tracks this time. Anyone else doing the same?
I'm going to listen to them as much as I can :biggrin:
Adiós nobloodyname, but I'm going with gzarruk :biggrin:
Yep, staying away from this thread from now on. What often keeps me away from the boards for long periods doesn’t look like it’s changing anytime soon, with virtual shit shows over the simplest things like the album cover and a sentence saying someone enjoyed the album. Fuck that.
I've decided I won't listen to any of the advance tracks this time. Anyone else doing the same?
*snip*
Tomorrow the first single? :hefdaddy
Tomorrow the first single? :hefdaddy
Not likely.
Just saw this on MM's Facebook page:I really enjoy these kinds of posts by MM. They always seem really thoughtful in the way he's trying to convey what he's saying.
The Album begins with a drum fill that sounds like something obvious but is not. It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill. See what I mean? But I can teach it by SHAPE and Feel without calculating it- that's how I came up with it. Shape and Feel. I'm glad I gained the knowledge and pattern recognition to know what it is though so I can explain it. I'll soon be making Master Classes on this and our 1st Song release, as well Private Slots for Zoom.
Other drum parts of the album, especially AVFTTOTW, have parts you have to "know" or there's no way to play them. ie. one drum part is a very long odd time and the entire kit (and kick sound) is played entirely with my hands while my feet are playing a different type of instrument sound in a completely different time signature.
Since this IS Dream Theater, I think fans are entertained by this kind of thing, but also need the simple groove playing and melodies to be able to take a mental break here and there. Not only did JP & JR smoke those melodies while JM and I held the Fort down, but LaBrie utterly slaughtered and nailed them throughout the album that I'm sitting back almost giggling in a lawn chair with a drink waiting for the album as a whole to be heard and evaluated. I'm interested to see how it is received. I like what I like - and like this one. Who knows what the lot will think of it.
Either way, being able to play these parts on all the instruments, or sing them accurately in time, is another story and a whole big bag of fun and defines the priori of the job of being in DT. I'm glad DT fans can enjoy and be entertained by both song content and the act of musicianship. I read a great quote yesterday that to strive for excellence is where to find joy. (Someone posted it. It is by Author Pearl Buck.) I think this is why critics that are angry are, by definition, void of joy and try to make others void of joy. But it doesn't work on those that choose joy in their spirit and strive for excellence as the quote says. Pretty cool! I never saw it that way. Most DT fans strive for excellence like us, by forging forward finding true joy in digging in, and learning the new material. So, I'm hoping and waiting to see if this album can create more joy than not!!
Really hyped about the album :metal
"...the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill. See what I mean? ..."
"...the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill. See what I mean? ..."
(https://media.tenor.com/images/31e893eeee69e91d32563dd5cc195c98/raw)
more strings isn't better in my book.
more strings isn't better in my book.
You would hate these, then:
(https://i2.wp.com/inartematt.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/meth.jpg?resize=700%2C340&ssl=1)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KbEJjuJJzhg/hqdefault.jpg)
Just saw this on MM's Facebook page:
...
I'll soon be making Master Classes on this and our 1st Song release, as well Private Slots for Zoom.
...
Just saw this on MM's Facebook page:
...
I'll soon be making Master Classes on this and our 1st Song release, as well Private Slots for Zoom.
...
Confirmation The Alien won't be the first single.
When review promos are sent out and when reviews are out do not need to have a relation. People can get the promo pretty early, but have an embargo on talking about it until a set date. We'll (the fan clubs) do our full review late September or very early October, even if we get the album much earlier than that..
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
Oh my god who cares.
*snip*
Carrying on with this will probably leave me infuriated (since the main point seems to be getting lost in favour of a long-winded back and forth on a needlessly expanding list of tangents), so I'll just leave it and won't speak any more on the topic. It's taking up too much of the thread as is.
So, in a half-arsed attempt at removing some heat and moving the conversation on: I've decided I won't listen to any of the advance tracks this time. Anyone else doing the same?
I'm going to listen to them as much as I can :biggrin:
I totally understand that ;D
I usually listen to them but I think I've become a bit disappointed in recent times at just how much of an album can be heard before release. Of course, it's a conscious decision over whether to listen or not but there is something nice about hearing a body of work in its entirety for the first time without having previously heard a single note.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
Thing with Mike is that this stuff comes out naturally for him. It's mindblowing really. But it's not like he targets to play over complicated stuff, his natural feel is gravitating towards this. Something he is excited about and explaining in a more technical way is the way he communicates.
Take Illumination Theory for example. There's a part where he plays the melody of the riff on the toms while he's playing a rhythm at the same time. If explained technically, it will sound like it's all about the polyrhythm and technique. But it's not, it's just the way he interprets his parts and how they work in the context of a song.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
Thing with Mike is that this stuff comes out naturally for him. It's mindblowing really. But it's not like he targets to play over complicated stuff, his natural feel is gravitating towards this. Something he is excited about and explaining in a more technical way is the way he communicates.
Take Illumination Theory for example. There's a part where he plays the melody of the riff on the toms while he's playing a rhythm at the same time. If explained technically, it will sound like it's all about the polyrhythm and technique. But it's not, it's just the way he interprets his parts and how they work in the context of a song.
Mangini has become the best example for me for the old saying "you can play the most complicated music ever conceived, but will it sound good?"
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
Totally this. I think we should keep in mind that a lot of his followers in the social media are drummers and his students, hence those super technical comments.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
Thing with Mike is that this stuff comes out naturally for him. It's mindblowing really. But it's not like he targets to play over complicated stuff, his natural feel is gravitating towards this. Something he is excited about and explaining in a more technical way is the way he communicates.
Take Illumination Theory for example. There's a part where he plays the melody of the riff on the toms while he's playing a rhythm at the same time. If explained technically, it will sound like it's all about the polyrhythm and technique. But it's not, it's just the way he interprets his parts and how they work in the context of a song.
Mangini has become the best example for me for the old saying "you can play the most complicated music ever conceived, but will it sound good?"
I think we should keep in mind that a lot of his followers in the social media are drummers and his students
I'm a drummer and i've done a music / theory degree and I don't care about time signatures and polyrhythms. I care about the music and production and to a lesser extent the lyrics.
If you went out for a meal - you wouldn't want the waiter telling you EXACTLY how the chef made it - and how many grams of each spice and seasoning he used and how long each
piece of the meal was cooked for and at what exact temperature and why. You'd be like great - how does it taste ?
I'm a drummer and i've done a music / theory degree and I don't care about time signatures and polyrhythms. I care about the music and production and to a lesser extent the lyrics.
If you went out for a meal - you wouldn't want the waiter telling you EXACTLY how the chef made it - and how many grams of each spice and seasoning he used and how long each
piece of the meal was cooked for and at what exact temperature and why. You'd be like great - how does it taste ?
I'm a drummer and i've done a music / theory degree and I don't care about time signatures and polyrhythms. I care about the music and production and to a lesser extent the lyrics.
If you went out for a meal - you wouldn't want the waiter telling you EXACTLY how the chef made it - and how many grams of each spice and seasoning he used and how long each
piece of the meal was cooked for and at what exact temperature and why. You'd be like great - how does it taste ?
I'm a drummer and i've done a music / theory degree and I don't care about time signatures and polyrhythms. I care about the music and production and to a lesser extent the lyrics.
If you went out for a meal - you wouldn't want the waiter telling you EXACTLY how the chef made it - and how many grams of each spice and seasoning he used and how long each
piece of the meal was cooked for and at what exact temperature and why. You'd be like great - how does it taste ?
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
But I can teach it by SHAPE and Feel without calculating it- that's how I came up with it. Shape and Feel. I'm glad I gained the knowledge and pattern recognition to know what it is though so I can explain it.
I've long said that while both are great drummers, Portnoy has a knack for making something in 3.1415/√3 time sound like a 4/4 shuffle, and Mangini has a knack for making something in 4/4 time sound like 0.33333/∞,
I'm a drummer and i've done a music / theory degree and I don't care about time signatures and polyrhythms. I care about the music and production and to a lesser extent the lyrics.
If you went out for a meal - you wouldn't want the waiter telling you EXACTLY how the chef made it - and how many grams of each spice and seasoning he used and how long each
piece of the meal was cooked for and at what exact temperature and why. You'd be like great - how does it taste ?
If you went out for a meal - you wouldn't want the waiter telling you EXACTLY how the chef made it - and how many grams of each spice and seasoning he used and how long each(…)
These are subjective questions, after all we like what we like. :)
Mangini has become the best example for me for the old saying "you can play the most complicated music ever conceived, but will it sound good?"
This drum talk is kind of a deal with it situation :)
I just giggle because MM is criticised for being anal about time signature and technicity...but what are the other members doing ?
Isn't rudess dumping thousand notes a minute ? Isn't myung playing the same thing as the guitar and not like an usual bassist ? Isn't JP the shredlord that can play the coldest fast tremolo picking solo ?
I think we are used to detect feeling in their playing even tho they are shredders.
This drum talk is kind of a deal with it situation :)
I just giggle because MM is criticised for being anal about time signature and technicity...but what are the other members doing ?
Isn't rudess dumping thousand notes a minute ? Isn't myung playing the same thing as the guitar and not like an usual bassist ? Isn't JP the shredlord that can play the coldest fast tremolo picking solo ?
I think we are used to detect feeling in their playing even tho they are shredders.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
Thing with Mike is that this stuff comes out naturally for him. It's mindblowing really. But it's not like he targets to play over complicated stuff, his natural feel is gravitating towards this. Something he is excited about and explaining in a more technical way is the way he communicates.
Take Illumination Theory for example. There's a part where he plays the melody of the riff on the toms while he's playing a rhythm at the same time. If explained technically, it will sound like it's all about the polyrhythm and technique. But it's not, it's just the way he interprets his parts and how they work in the context of a song.
Mangini has become the best example for me for the old saying "you can play the most complicated music ever conceived, but will it sound good?"
In general it sounds great to me, but of course anyone can enjoy things differently.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
Thing with Mike is that this stuff comes out naturally for him. It's mindblowing really. But it's not like he targets to play over complicated stuff, his natural feel is gravitating towards this. Something he is excited about and explaining in a more technical way is the way he communicates.
Take Illumination Theory for example. There's a part where he plays the melody of the riff on the toms while he's playing a rhythm at the same time. If explained technically, it will sound like it's all about the polyrhythm and technique. But it's not, it's just the way he interprets his parts and how they work in the context of a song.
Mangini has become the best example for me for the old saying "you can play the most complicated music ever conceived, but will it sound good?"
To you maybe. But to me, it does sound good and actually I enjoy his drumming parts more so than MP, because of him playing along to different instruments and rhythms. It's a really different style than usual for drumming. And I like it and enjoy it. It compliments the music.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
Thing with Mike is that this stuff comes out naturally for him. It's mindblowing really. But it's not like he targets to play over complicated stuff, his natural feel is gravitating towards this. Something he is excited about and explaining in a more technical way is the way he communicates.
Take Illumination Theory for example. There's a part where he plays the melody of the riff on the toms while he's playing a rhythm at the same time. If explained technically, it will sound like it's all about the polyrhythm and technique. But it's not, it's just the way he interprets his parts and how they work in the context of a song.
Mangini has become the best example for me for the old saying "you can play the most complicated music ever conceived, but will it sound good?"
To you maybe. But to me, it does sound good and actually I enjoy his drumming parts more so than MP, because of him playing along to different instruments and rhythms. It's a really different style than usual for drumming. And I like it and enjoy it. It compliments the music.
MM has his moments for me, but overall it's either overly complex sounding for the sake of being overly complex, and doesn't add anything to the SONG,
or when he does lay back for a bit, nothing he does sticks out to me, it all sounds like standard rock drumming that could have been anyone behind the kit.
MP could be like that at times on both points as well, but not as often to my ears.
I also don't like how MM's drums sound on DT studio albums, live, his kit sounds much better.
ADTOE sounded decent, but way too low in the mix.
To me, it doesn't seem like Mangini is doing complex drumming for the sake of it being complex. It seems as if he is finally able to utilize his full playing style and how he has viewed drumming. To be able to be himself as a drummer and let loose. From the audition drummer documentary, it seemed as if he really wanted this gig for that reason of being able to have an outlet to be himself as a drummer and be able to incorporate those complex drumming parts he comes up with into a recorded song.
Dream Theater allowed Mangini to do just that. And what he does is an entirely different frame of mind than what Portnoy is as a drummer.
For me, it's the complexity of his drumming that I like and enjoy immensely.
To me, it doesn't seem like Mangini is doing complex drumming for the sake of it being complex. It seems as if he is finally able to utilize his full playing style and how he has viewed drumming. To be able to be himself as a drummer and let loose. From the audition drummer documentary, it seemed as if he really wanted this gig for that reason of being able to have an outlet to be himself as a drummer and be able to incorporate those complex drumming parts he comes up with into a recorded song.
Dream Theater allowed Mangini to do just that. And what he does is an entirely different frame of mind than what Portnoy is as a drummer.
For me, it's the complexity of his drumming that I like and enjoy immensely.
You’ve stretched my thoughts out perfectly. Exactly what Mangini does to me as well. Technically brilliant and with an attitude that fits so well in the band.
Am I the only one who doesn’t care about the whole 8-string thing?
Nope. To me, it's like, Oh Mangini has a 17th drum.
I'm with you both. Couldn't care less. Well, actually, I could care less because most of the 7- and 8- string work I've heard is not my bag. Six strings were enough for Ritchie Blackmore, Michael Schenker and Randy Rhoads, so more strings isn't better in my book.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
It seems like a lot of people forget that there some people in the world for whom the “feel” and the “passion” for what they are doing IS wrapped up in the difficulty of it.
It’s like some of you think that a mathematician is incapable of being deeply passionate and (gasp) “feel” something very deeply emotional about math. And that passion can be expressed in what they are doing.
Some of you talk like Portnoy and Mangini are chalk and cheese. I guarantee you no one but the most hardcore DT fan even notices the difference, they are so similar in style. If you watch all these online reactors, no one notices the drummer has changed. The reason being that it’s just the drummer, a backing musician, not the singer or the guitar player or even the keyboard player. They swapped one crazy technical drummer who ridiculously overplays for another.
That’s not to say people who are hardcore DT fans can’t have their favourite and do notice the difference. Let’s not lose sight of the fact though that these are minor differences in the grand scheme of things. If you played anyone an MP era DT song side by side with a MM era song, 999,999 people out of million would not say say “Hang on a minute! Did they change the drummer?”
I have seen a few interviews/podcasts lately where Portnoy has dismissed the idea that he is a technical drummer, so I think he likes the idea of being viewed as the "feel" drummer in DT (and it makes the "Mangini is a robot" narrative seem stronger, which I am sure he gets a kick out of), but let's be serious, he is obviously one of the most technical rock or metal drummers ever. Just because he might not be a Mangini or Minnemann when it comes to technique doesn't mean that he still isn't in the top percentile when it comes to technical playing as far as rock or metal drummers are concerned.
Ouch! I'm guessing we're gonna stick to "DT15" when referring to this album..
I don't like the artwork, I guess I'm not the first one to say that.
I thought they hit a sweet spot with the song durations on D/T but I guess they're reverting. At least the folks who wanted longer songs are happy, there was some disgruntled folks on the last album cycle due to short songs.
Otherwise hooray for new DT music! DT15 era, here we go!
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.Mangini uses a click because he says time slows down for him when he is playing
Mangini said that his perception of time gets messed up when he comes plays live she he uses a click for accuracy.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
Thing with Mike is that this stuff comes out naturally for him. It's mindblowing really. But it's not like he targets to play over complicated stuff, his natural feel is gravitating towards this. Something he is excited about and explaining in a more technical way is the way he communicates.
Take Illumination Theory for example. There's a part where he plays the melody of the riff on the toms while he's playing a rhythm at the same time. If explained technically, it will sound like it's all about the polyrhythm and technique. But it's not, it's just the way he interprets his parts and how they work in the context of a song.
Mangini has become the best example for me for the old saying "you can play the most complicated music ever conceived, but will it sound good?"
To you maybe. But to me, it does sound good and actually I enjoy his drumming parts more so than MP, because of him playing along to different instruments and rhythms. It's a really different style than usual for drumming. And I like it and enjoy it. It compliments the music.
MM has his moments for me, but overall it's either overly complex sounding for the sake of being overly complex, and doesn't add anything to the SONG,
or when he does lay back for a bit, nothing he does sticks out to me, it all sounds like standard rock drumming that could have been anyone behind the kit.
MP could be like that at times on both points as well, but not as often to my ears.
I also don't like how MM's drums sound on DT studio albums, live, his kit sounds much better.
ADTOE sounded decent, but way too low in the mix.
To me, it doesn't seem like Mangini is doing complex drumming for the sake of it being complex. It seems as if he is finally able to utilize his full playing style and how he has viewed drumming. To be able to be himself as a drummer and let loose. From the audition drummer documentary, it seemed as if he really wanted this gig for that reason of being able to have an outlet to be himself as a drummer and be able to incorporate those complex drumming parts he comes up with into a recorded song.
Dream Theater allowed Mangini to do just that. And what he does is an entirely different frame of mind than what Portnoy is as a drummer.
For me, it's the complexity of his drumming that I like and enjoy immensely.
My only gripe with the band currently, is that they play to a click. I would love to see them go free-roaming. But as they enjoy having the big productions, that went out the door.
Although, I do wonder if the reason for playing to a click also has to do with being an easy reliable way to form a setlist, and create one that won't go over curfew where the band has to pay the venue a curfew fee for going over time. A way for them to see how much time they have to play, to rest in between songs, and say goodbye before having to leave the venue. Having the click keeps everything in time so they won't accidentally overplay by playing a song a bit too slow, an now they have to rush the last couple of songs. :lol
I have seen a few interviews/podcasts lately where Portnoy has dismissed the idea that he is a technical drummer, so I think he likes the idea of being viewed as the "feel" drummer in DT (and it makes the "Mangini is a robot" narrative seem stronger, which I am sure he gets a kick out of), but let's be serious, he is obviously one of the most technical rock or metal drummers ever. Just because he might not be a Mangini or Minnemann when it comes to technique doesn't mean that he still isn't in the top percentile when it comes to technical playing as far as rock or metal drummers are concerned.
To accentuate that, around the years 1994-2000 a few DT members released teaching material on their instruments. From the bits I saw from Portnoy, he is also: "Okay, we have this section in 7/4 with the downbeat then the 7/4 with the upbeat then we play 6 8th notes and then we repeat but inverting the timing of the cymbal to make it interesting blah-blah-blah" that maybe is not as complicated as the patterns Mangini talks and writes about but highlights that at least at that time being a drummer with the command of complex time signatures, anything but dismissive of the techniques.
I'm a drummer and i've done a music / theory degree and I don't care about time signatures and polyrhythms. I care about the music and production and to a lesser extent the lyrics.
If you went out for a meal - you wouldn't want the waiter telling you EXACTLY how the chef made it - and how many grams of each spice and seasoning he used and how long each
piece of the meal was cooked for and at what exact temperature and why. You'd be like great - how does it taste ?
I know this is going to come as a shock, but here it goes... there are other people in the world.
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
It's almost that because of the subjective, culture-based experience of music, feeling is not a thing. It's just a myth by bad musicians to justify their laziness and illiteracy. Theory analysis are the closest thing to any "objective" analysis of music, as a tool of teaching (and yes, I'm aware that music theory and its perception are bound to the subjective experience of humans). For people who actually care, Mangini doing rundowns of his ideas and compositional process is the closest that we have to seeing what is inside his mind when playing, saying "this grooves and has FEELING brooo" is useless information.
I don't want to look like a snob who only cares about theory, not at all, and many of my musical heroes don't have an extensive knowledge of music theory (or any at all). But Mangini was a teacher and one of the best music schools, and has an impressive grasp of complex concepts and can execute them flawlessly, it would be a waste if he only talked using meaningless terms.
It seems like a lot of people forget that there some people in the world for whom the “feel” and the “passion” for what they are doing IS wrapped up in the difficulty of it.
It’s like some of you think that a mathematician is incapable of being deeply passionate and (gasp) “feel” something very deeply emotional about math. And that passion can be expressed in what they are doing.
Exactly. The worst thing is that what you mentioned should be obvious, but it isn't.
I love how people feel they have the right to judge the actions of others as unfeeling (and this is very common in music). They are HUMAN BEINGS doing some activity and someone comes along and thinks he/she is capable of dehumanizing the other person, thinking that there is no feeling there. Who does "the judge" think he/she is to have that power? It is an absolute arrogance!
Question for the drummers here: When you play to a click, with the technology today can you adjust the time in real time on stage? Whether during a song or in between songs? Or is it a decision indelibly made prior to the show, and you live with it?
It seems like a lot of people forget that there some people in the world for whom the “feel” and the “passion” for what they are doing IS wrapped up in the difficulty of it.
It’s like some of you think that a mathematician is incapable of being deeply passionate and (gasp) “feel” something very deeply emotional about math. And that passion can be expressed in what they are doing.
Exactly. The worst thing is that what you mentioned should be obvious, but it isn't.
I love how people feel they have the right to judge the actions of others as unfeeling (and this is very common in music). They are HUMAN BEINGS doing some activity and someone comes along and thinks he/she is capable of dehumanizing the other person, thinking that there is no feeling there. Who does "the judge" think he/she is to have that power? It is an absolute arrogance!
Haha, you mean like some of the people here seem to feel they have the right to judge posts/opinion here as "disrespectful" and off topic and what not? I agree: absolute arrogance! :) :) :)
(I kid, sort of, but not really.)
Question for the drummers here: When you play to a click, with the technology today can you adjust the time in real time on stage? Whether during a song or in between songs? Or is it a decision indelibly made prior to the show, and you live with it?
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
It's almost that because of the subjective, culture-based experience of music, feeling is not a thing. It's just a myth by bad musicians to justify their laziness and illiteracy. Theory analysis are the closest thing to any "objective" analysis of music, as a tool of teaching (and yes, I'm aware that music theory and its perception are bound to the subjective experience of humans). For people who actually care, Mangini doing rundowns of his ideas and compositional process is the closest that we have to seeing what is inside his mind when playing, saying "this grooves and has FEELING brooo" is useless information.
I don't want to look like a snob who only cares about theory, not at all, and many of my musical heroes don't have an extensive knowledge of music theory (or any at all). But Mangini was a teacher and one of the best music schools, and has an impressive grasp of complex concepts and can execute them flawlessly, it would be a waste if he only talked using meaningless terms.
It's not useless though, and that's an important point in this conversation that seems to be repeatedly missed. You can attribute it to whoever you want - me or Mangini or Paul Stanley or any of the thousands of people that have said it - but "I like what I like". For me personally, there's very little of this "objective" stuff - complexity, song lengths, who wrote it - that make a difference in what I end to listening to on the regular. I'm not that one dimensional, and most humans aren't*. I like things with deep theory, I like things that are nothing BUT feel, I hate things with theory and I hate things that are nothing but feel. It's not about EITHER of those things for some people. This idea that it's a binary two-variable equation - one or the other - is the REAL myth.
In my opinion that's why bands like Led Zeppelin and The Beatles and Pink Floyd are still talked about; they didn't make these distinctions; you had complex symphonies, if you will (The Song Remains The Same, A Day In The Life, Echoes) alongside simple "Squeeze the lemon, baby" blues and "Love Me Do" skiffle and "Alan's Breakfast" musique concrète, and all that mattered is that one got lost in the music.
* I'm not suggesting you or anyone else IS one-dimensional; I would ask you - and be honest - did you make a CONSCIOUS decision to like what you like, or did it really happen that you liked it, you were drawn to it, and figured out why later? Is there ANYTHING musically you like/listen to that doesn't fit the set pattern?
It seems like a lot of people forget that there some people in the world for whom the “feel” and the “passion” for what they are doing IS wrapped up in the difficulty of it.
It’s like some of you think that a mathematician is incapable of being deeply passionate and (gasp) “feel” something very deeply emotional about math. And that passion can be expressed in what they are doing.
Exactly. The worst thing is that what you mentioned should be obvious, but it isn't.
I love how people feel they have the right to judge the actions of others as unfeeling (and this is very common in music). They are HUMAN BEINGS doing some activity and someone comes along and thinks he/she is capable of dehumanizing the other person, thinking that there is no feeling there. Who does "the judge" think he/she is to have that power? It is an absolute arrogance!
Haha, you mean like some of the people here seem to feel they have the right to judge posts/opinion here as "disrespectful" and off topic and what not? I agree: absolute arrogance! :) :) :)
(I kid, sort of, but not really.)
I have seen a few interviews/podcasts lately where Portnoy has dismissed the idea that he is a technical drummer, so I think he likes the idea of being viewed as the "feel" drummer in DT (and it makes the "Mangini is a robot" narrative seem stronger, which I am sure he gets a kick out of), but let's be serious, he is obviously one of the most technical rock or metal drummers ever. Just because he might not be a Mangini or Minnemann when it comes to technique doesn't mean that he still isn't in the top percentile when it comes to technical playing as far as rock or metal drummers are concerned.
Mike Mangini posted on his Facebook page which he mostly uses to promote his drum lessons and tutorials. That is why he sounded technical. He has drummers in mind as the audience so he talked in terms of what would make drummers excited.
Mind you, he said in subsequent comments that he came up with the fill not based on numbers but based on a shape he saw his movements taking in the drum set. He only broke it down in numbers afterwards.
Ouch! I'm guessing we're gonna stick to "DT15" when referring to this album..
I don't like the artwork, I guess I'm not the first one to say that.
I thought they hit a sweet spot with the song durations on D/T but I guess they're reverting. At least the folks who wanted longer songs are happy, there was some disgruntled folks on the last album cycle due to short songs.
Otherwise hooray for new DT music! DT15 era, here we go!
Mike Mangini posted on his Facebook page which he mostly uses to promote his drum lessons and tutorials. That is why he sounded technical. He has drummers in mind as the audience so he talked in terms of what would make drummers excited.
Mind you, he said in subsequent comments that he came up with the fill not based on numbers but based on a shape he saw his movements taking in the drum set. He only broke it down in numbers afterwards.
I find it neat how he sees patterns and shapes in music. And found a way to describe these patterns and shapes.
Yup, his target audience wasn't specifically for Dream Theater fans.
It's not useless though, and that's an important point in this conversation that seems to be repeatedly missed. You can attribute it to whoever you want - me or Mangini or Paul Stanley or any of the thousands of people that have said it - but "I like what I like". For me personally, there's very little of this "objective" stuff - complexity, song lengths, who wrote it - that make a difference in what I end to listening to on the regular. I'm not that one dimensional, and most humans aren't*. I like things with deep theory, I like things that are nothing BUT feel, I hate things with theory and I hate things that are nothing but feel. It's not about EITHER of those things for some people. This idea that it's a binary two-variable equation - one or the other - is the REAL myth.
In my opinion that's why bands like Led Zeppelin and The Beatles and Pink Floyd are still talked about; they didn't make these distinctions; you had complex symphonies, if you will (The Song Remains The Same, A Day In The Life, Echoes) alongside simple "Squeeze the lemon, baby" blues and "Love Me Do" skiffle and "Alan's Breakfast" musique concrète, and all that mattered is that one got lost in the music.
* I'm not suggesting you or anyone else IS one-dimensional; I would ask you - and be honest - did you make a CONSCIOUS decision to like what you like, or did it really happen that you liked it, you were drawn to it, and figured out why later? Is there ANYTHING musically you like/listen to that doesn't fit the set pattern?
So just to get in the mood of anticipating the new album, I made a playlist of MM-era songs that would sort of "simulate" the songs on AVFTTOTW by song length.
On The Backs Of Angels
The Bigger Picture
Surrender To Reason
Lost Not Forgotten
Signal To Noise
At Wits End
Illumination Theory
Pretty good album. :lol
So just to get in the mood of anticipating the new album, I made a playlist of MM-era songs that would sort of "simulate" the songs on AVFTTOTW by song length.
On The Backs Of Angels
The Bigger Picture
Surrender To Reason
Lost Not Forgotten
Signal To Noise
At Wits End
Illumination Theory
Pretty good album. :lol
Just so people don't have to work it out.
I really don't like abbreviations. Ok if you're on a mobile and it's a pain to type - but on a computer keyboard - it's not difficult typing out the whole title.
For example is TOT trial of tears or train of thought?
is SDV Strange Deja Vu or Space Dye Vest ?
Is SS Sacrificed Sons or Solitary Shell
:)
Ouch! I'm guessing we're gonna stick to "DT15" when referring to this album..
I don't like the artwork, I guess I'm not the first one to say that.
I thought they hit a sweet spot with the song durations on D/T but I guess they're reverting. At least the folks who wanted longer songs are happy, there was some disgruntled folks on the last album cycle due to short songs.
Otherwise hooray for new DT music! DT15 era, here we go!
With all due respect, reverting to what exactly? DoT had some more concise songs, but every album has been completely different, from experimental, to concept, to rock opera to you name it. Many albums have a bit of a theme and there are song lengths all over the place. I don’t think it’s a case of “we found a sweet spot”, now we’ll just go with that”. I think the very nature of prog is to do things differently :tup
Ouch! I'm guessing we're gonna stick to "DT15" when referring to this album..
I don't like the artwork, I guess I'm not the first one to say that.
I thought they hit a sweet spot with the song durations on D/T but I guess they're reverting. At least the folks who wanted longer songs are happy, there was some disgruntled folks on the last album cycle due to short songs.
Otherwise hooray for new DT music! DT15 era, here we go!
With all due respect, reverting to what exactly? DoT had some more concise songs, but every album has been completely different, from experimental, to concept, to rock opera to you name it. Many albums have a bit of a theme and there are song lengths all over the place. I don’t think it’s a case of “we found a sweet spot”, now we’ll just go with that”. I think the very nature of prog is to do things differently :tup
I think reverting as in - roughly 7-8 track albums with mostly 7,8,9 min songs and then a giant one at the end
a la Train of Thought, Octavarium, Systematic Chaos, Black Clouds and Dream Theater.
Is SS Sacrificed Sons or Solitary Shell
:)
Question for the drummers here: When you play to a click, with the technology today can you adjust the time in real time on stage? Whether during a song or in between songs? Or is it a decision indelibly made prior to the show, and you live with it?
If you were going to do this, then why use a click? ???
It's too fast to pick up the slight anomaly of being 3:2 of 7 that fits over 4 of the main 7 notes with 3 of the real 7/16 notes left for the end of the fill.
Oh my god who cares. This is literally my only problem with mangini. He never once has talked about how a song FEELS. It's always about the polyrhythms and time signatures.
It's almost that because of the subjective, culture-based experience of music, feeling is not a thing. It's just a myth by bad musicians to justify their laziness and illiteracy. Theory analysis are the closest thing to any "objective" analysis of music, as a tool of teaching (and yes, I'm aware that music theory and its perception are bound to the subjective experience of humans). For people who actually care, Mangini doing rundowns of his ideas and compositional process is the closest that we have to seeing what is inside his mind when playing, saying "this grooves and has FEELING brooo" is useless information.
I don't want to look like a snob who only cares about theory, not at all, and many of my musical heroes don't have an extensive knowledge of music theory (or any at all). But Mangini was a teacher and one of the best music schools, and has an impressive grasp of complex concepts and can execute them flawlessly, it would be a waste if he only talked using meaningless terms.
It's not useless though, and that's an important point in this conversation that seems to be repeatedly missed. You can attribute it to whoever you want - me or Mangini or Paul Stanley or any of the thousands of people that have said it - but "I like what I like". For me personally, there's very little of this "objective" stuff - complexity, song lengths, who wrote it - that make a difference in what I end to listening to on the regular. I'm not that one dimensional, and most humans aren't*. I like things with deep theory, I like things that are nothing BUT feel, I hate things with theory and I hate things that are nothing but feel. It's not about EITHER of those things for some people. This idea that it's a binary two-variable equation - one or the other - is the REAL myth.
In my opinion that's why bands like Led Zeppelin and The Beatles and Pink Floyd are still talked about; they didn't make these distinctions; you had complex symphonies, if you will (The Song Remains The Same, A Day In The Life, Echoes) alongside simple "Squeeze the lemon, baby" blues and "Love Me Do" skiffle and "Alan's Breakfast" musique concrète, and all that mattered is that one got lost in the music.
* I'm not suggesting you or anyone else IS one-dimensional; I would ask you - and be honest - did you make a CONSCIOUS decision to like what you like, or did it really happen that you liked it, you were drawn to it, and figured out why later? Is there ANYTHING musically you like/listen to that doesn't fit the set pattern?
I think you missed the point. There's nothing wrong with having an emotional connection to music that isn't theory-heavy (see highlighted part), but simply saying "this has x feeling" is less useful in describing music we haven't heard yet, because feeling isn't set in stone & depends on the person - it isn't inherent to the music. On the other hand, whether you care about theory or not, theory tells us more about the music because it's more objective & can hone in on little details.
As she said, it would be a waste to have the theory knowledge & still insist on exclusively using vague & subjective terms (which they haven't even stopped doing alongside the theory stuff, so it's not like anything is lost).
It seems like a lot of people forget that there some people in the world for whom the “feel” and the “passion” for what they are doing IS wrapped up in the difficulty of it.
It’s like some of you think that a mathematician is incapable of being deeply passionate and (gasp) “feel” something very deeply emotional about math. And that passion can be expressed in what they are doing.
Exactly. The worst thing is that what you mentioned should be obvious, but it isn't.
I love how people feel they have the right to judge the actions of others as unfeeling (and this is very common in music). They are HUMAN BEINGS doing some activity and someone comes along and thinks he/she is capable of dehumanizing the other person, thinking that there is no feeling there. Who does "the judge" think he/she is to have that power? It is an absolute arrogance!
Haha, you mean like some of the people here seem to feel they have the right to judge posts/opinion here as "disrespectful" and off topic and what not? I agree: absolute arrogance! :) :) :)
(I kid, sort of, but not really.)
I don't know if you were referring to my post judging kotowboy's "ong who cares" as disrespectful. If so, I think it's much easier to deem that as disrespectful to MM compared to the "this part has feel/is purely technical" discussions. They're not even in the same ball park, afaic.
But, hey. I'm excited about the album. I'm excited that MM sounds excited.
I'm unexcited by the heavy judgement that's taken place wrt the art and MM's post, tbh. Big buzzkill for me. It's a long time til October. Think I'll be staying away from this thread for a while. Not sure I can stand the inevitable shitshow that will take place after publicity shots etc are revealed.
Ouch! I'm guessing we're gonna stick to "DT15" when referring to this album..
I don't like the artwork, I guess I'm not the first one to say that.
I thought they hit a sweet spot with the song durations on D/T but I guess they're reverting. At least the folks who wanted longer songs are happy, there was some disgruntled folks on the last album cycle due to short songs.
Otherwise hooray for new DT music! DT15 era, here we go!
With all due respect, reverting to what exactly? DoT had some more concise songs, but every album has been completely different, from experimental, to concept, to rock opera to you name it. Many albums have a bit of a theme and there are song lengths all over the place. I don’t think it’s a case of “we found a sweet spot”, now we’ll just go with that”. I think the very nature of prog is to do things differently :tup
It's not useless though, and that's an important point in this conversation that seems to be repeatedly missed. You can attribute it to whoever you want - me or Mangini or Paul Stanley or any of the thousands of people that have said it - but "I like what I like". For me personally, there's very little of this "objective" stuff - complexity, song lengths, who wrote it - that make a difference in what I end to listening to on the regular. I'm not that one dimensional, and most humans aren't*. I like things with deep theory, I like things that are nothing BUT feel, I hate things with theory and I hate things that are nothing but feel. It's not about EITHER of those things for some people. This idea that it's a binary two-variable equation - one or the other - is the REAL myth.
In my opinion that's why bands like Led Zeppelin and The Beatles and Pink Floyd are still talked about; they didn't make these distinctions; you had complex symphonies, if you will (The Song Remains The Same, A Day In The Life, Echoes) alongside simple "Squeeze the lemon, baby" blues and "Love Me Do" skiffle and "Alan's Breakfast" musique concrète, and all that mattered is that one got lost in the music.
* I'm not suggesting you or anyone else IS one-dimensional; I would ask you - and be honest - did you make a CONSCIOUS decision to like what you like, or did it really happen that you liked it, you were drawn to it, and figured out why later? Is there ANYTHING musically you like/listen to that doesn't fit the set pattern?
I like many different things, even stuff like Noise and Free-Jazz hit a sweet spot for me. I don't think there's any set way that I go about music (although I try to understand why I like or dislike things). But Mangini is one of my favourite drummers (next to Marco Minnemann and Deantoni Parks), and I love reading/listening to him talk about complex ideas; I'm austitic, and I have some kind of synesthesia, when Mangini talks about shapes and movements, I get it, and it inspires me. Applying polyrhythms to odd time sigs to create a sense of metric modulation is an idea that has been on the back of my head for months too, so I'm hyped to see how he implements it for the opening of the album.
If he talked about how a song feels or grooves, it means nothing to me, like, literally nothing. You can describe movie scenes to someone, but if you tell them "yeah, the movie is sad and then it gets really emotional", it doesn't paint any picture in their head.
I like many different things, even stuff like Noise and Free-Jazz hit a sweet spot for me. I don't think there's any set way that I go about music (although I try to understand why I like or dislike things). But Mangini is one of my favourite drummers (next to Marco Minnemann and Deantoni Parks), and I love reading/listening to him talk about complex ideas; I'm austitic, and I have some kind of synesthesia, when Mangini talks about shapes and movements, I get it, and it inspires me. Applying polyrhythms to odd time sigs to create a sense of metric modulation is an idea that has been on the back of my head for months too, so I'm hyped to see how he implements it for the opening of the album.
If he talked about how a song feels or grooves, it means nothing to me, like, literally nothing. You can describe movie scenes to someone, but if you tell them "yeah, the movie is sad and then it gets really emotional", it doesn't paint any picture in their head.
And yes, I agree that it's a myth that it's about "feeling vs theory", and many musicians that know a lot of theory would then say "I just play what I'm feeling at the moment", they just have the vocabulary to explain what they do (like Mangini mentioned in his post), and know how to break "rules" to create textures and effects.
As for Zeppelin, I don't like them so I can't really comment. The Beatles I'm only familiar with a couple of albums, but I know some info about them. And Pink Floyd I can write books about their music and its influence on me. But for the last two, not knowing theory wasn't an excuse to not being creative and explore ideas/concepts; sure they weren't writing in 23/16 to explore how to use prime numbers polyrhythms or something, but it was still complex music in other aspects, and it could be talked about with "academic" terms if someone wanted to.
So just to get in the mood of anticipating the new album, I made a playlist of MM-era songs that would sort of "simulate" the songs on AVFTTOTW by song length.
On The Backs Of Angels
The Bigger Picture
Surrender To Reason
Lost Not Forgotten
Signal To Noise
At Wits End
Illumination Theory
Pretty good album. :lol
Just so people don't have to work it out.
So just to get in the mood of anticipating the new album, I made a playlist of MM-era songs that would sort of "simulate" the songs on AVFTTOTW by song length.
On The Backs Of Angels
The Bigger Picture
Surrender To Reason
Lost Not Forgotten
Signal To Noise
At Wits End
Illumination Theory
Pretty good album. :lol
Just so people don't have to work it out.
Signal To Noise is actually called S2n, just to be a pedantic asshole!
So just to get in the mood of anticipating the new album, I made a playlist of MM-era songs that would sort of "simulate" the songs on AVFTTOTW by song length.
On The Backs Of Angels
The Bigger Picture
Surrender To Reason
Lost Not Forgotten
Signal To Noise
At Wits End
Illumination Theory
Pretty good album. :lol
Just so people don't have to work it out.
Signal To Noise is actually called S2n, just to be a pedantic asshole!
I thought that too, but didn’t say anything. I didn’t want to be a pedantic asshole. :lol
So just to get in the mood of anticipating the new album, I made a playlist of MM-era songs that would sort of "simulate" the songs on AVFTTOTW by song length.
On The Backs Of Angels
The Bigger Picture
Surrender To Reason
Lost Not Forgotten
Signal To Noise
At Wits End
Illumination Theory
Pretty good album. :lol
Just so people don't have to work it out.
Signal To Noise is actually called S2n, just to be a pedantic asshole!
I thought that too, but didn’t say anything. I didn’t want to be a pedantic asshole. :lol
Uhm, actually, it's "S2N" with a capital "N", per the album's back cover. ;) :lol
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Jve223d2L._SY780_.jpg)
-Marc.
So just to get in the mood of anticipating the new album, I made a playlist of MM-era songs that would sort of "simulate" the songs on AVFTTOTW by song length.
On The Backs Of Angels
The Bigger Picture
Surrender To Reason
Lost Not Forgotten
Signal To Noise
At Wits End
Illumination Theory
Pretty good album. :lol
Just so people don't have to work it out.
Signal To Noise is actually called S2n, just to be a pedantic asshole!
I thought that too, but didn’t say anything. I didn’t want to be a pedantic asshole. :lol
Uhm, actually, it's "S2N" with a capital "N", per the album's back cover. ;) :lol
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Jve223d2L._SY780_.jpg)
-Marc.
You win the "Pedantic Asshole" contest
Congratulations.
:lol
Well, my username is based on a tiny printed Easter egg in Rush's Power Windows liner notes, how could I *not* be a pedantic asshole? :lol
Also - a win is a win. 🏆
-Marc.
It's not useless though, and that's an important point in this conversation that seems to be repeatedly missed. You can attribute it to whoever you want - me or Mangini or Paul Stanley or any of the thousands of people that have said it - but "I like what I like". For me personally, there's very little of this "objective" stuff - complexity, song lengths, who wrote it - that make a difference in what I end to listening to on the regular. I'm not that one dimensional, and most humans aren't*. I like things with deep theory, I like things that are nothing BUT feel, I hate things with theory and I hate things that are nothing but feel. It's not about EITHER of those things for some people. This idea that it's a binary two-variable equation - one or the other - is the REAL myth.
In my opinion that's why bands like Led Zeppelin and The Beatles and Pink Floyd are still talked about; they didn't make these distinctions; you had complex symphonies, if you will (The Song Remains The Same, A Day In The Life, Echoes) alongside simple "Squeeze the lemon, baby" blues and "Love Me Do" skiffle and "Alan's Breakfast" musique concrète, and all that mattered is that one got lost in the music.
* I'm not suggesting you or anyone else IS one-dimensional; I would ask you - and be honest - did you make a CONSCIOUS decision to like what you like, or did it really happen that you liked it, you were drawn to it, and figured out why later? Is there ANYTHING musically you like/listen to that doesn't fit the set pattern?
I like many different things, even stuff like Noise and Free-Jazz hit a sweet spot for me. I don't think there's any set way that I go about music (although I try to understand why I like or dislike things). But Mangini is one of my favourite drummers (next to Marco Minnemann and Deantoni Parks), and I love reading/listening to him talk about complex ideas; I'm austitic, and I have some kind of synesthesia, when Mangini talks about shapes and movements, I get it, and it inspires me. Applying polyrhythms to odd time sigs to create a sense of metric modulation is an idea that has been on the back of my head for months too, so I'm hyped to see how he implements it for the opening of the album.
If he talked about how a song feels or grooves, it means nothing to me, like, literally nothing. You can describe movie scenes to someone, but if you tell them "yeah, the movie is sad and then it gets really emotional", it doesn't paint any picture in their head.
Thank you for sharing that post; there's a lot of insight in there and I appreciate that. I'm not autistic (to my knowledge) though my son is, and my daughter has a form of synesthesia - and again, not to my knowledge on the spectrum - so I wonder if this is a matter of all of us, regardless, identifying or connecting with different things. And that's really my point here. There's no objective way of identifying any of that. It is all subjective, by definition, because it's all down to the specific user. I don't care whether people "value" song-lengths or not, as long as they recognize there's no value to that beyond "they prefer it". I think some people here have a little difficulty understanding that because THEY value it, personally, that doesn't mean it has any value outside of that. You don't strike me as being snobbish, but just look in the various threads around here that are about music that might have a more commercial angle to it - Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift come to mind - and the snobbery of others is pretty well apparent, when at the end of the day, what we like is in large part dumb luck. :)
So just to get in the mood of anticipating the new album, I made a playlist of MM-era songs that would sort of "simulate" the songs on AVFTTOTW by song length.
On The Backs Of Angels
The Bigger Picture
Surrender To Reason
Lost Not Forgotten
Signal To Noise
At Wits End
Illumination Theory
Pretty good album. :lol
Just so people don't have to work it out.
Signal To Noise is actually called S2n, just to be a pedantic asshole!
I thought that too, but didn’t say anything. I didn’t want to be a pedantic asshole. :lol
Uhm, actually, it's "S2N" with a capital "N", per the album's back cover. ;) :lol
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Jve223d2L._SY780_.jpg)
-Marc.
It's not useless though, and that's an important point in this conversation that seems to be repeatedly missed. You can attribute it to whoever you want - me or Mangini or Paul Stanley or any of the thousands of people that have said it - but "I like what I like". For me personally, there's very little of this "objective" stuff - complexity, song lengths, who wrote it - that make a difference in what I end to listening to on the regular. I'm not that one dimensional, and most humans aren't*. I like things with deep theory, I like things that are nothing BUT feel, I hate things with theory and I hate things that are nothing but feel. It's not about EITHER of those things for some people. This idea that it's a binary two-variable equation - one or the other - is the REAL myth.
In my opinion that's why bands like Led Zeppelin and The Beatles and Pink Floyd are still talked about; they didn't make these distinctions; you had complex symphonies, if you will (The Song Remains The Same, A Day In The Life, Echoes) alongside simple "Squeeze the lemon, baby" blues and "Love Me Do" skiffle and "Alan's Breakfast" musique concrète, and all that mattered is that one got lost in the music.
* I'm not suggesting you or anyone else IS one-dimensional; I would ask you - and be honest - did you make a CONSCIOUS decision to like what you like, or did it really happen that you liked it, you were drawn to it, and figured out why later? Is there ANYTHING musically you like/listen to that doesn't fit the set pattern?
I like many different things, even stuff like Noise and Free-Jazz hit a sweet spot for me. I don't think there's any set way that I go about music (although I try to understand why I like or dislike things). But Mangini is one of my favourite drummers (next to Marco Minnemann and Deantoni Parks), and I love reading/listening to him talk about complex ideas; I'm austitic, and I have some kind of synesthesia, when Mangini talks about shapes and movements, I get it, and it inspires me. Applying polyrhythms to odd time sigs to create a sense of metric modulation is an idea that has been on the back of my head for months too, so I'm hyped to see how he implements it for the opening of the album.
If he talked about how a song feels or grooves, it means nothing to me, like, literally nothing. You can describe movie scenes to someone, but if you tell them "yeah, the movie is sad and then it gets really emotional", it doesn't paint any picture in their head.
Thank you for sharing that post; there's a lot of insight in there and I appreciate that. I'm not autistic (to my knowledge) though my son is, and my daughter has a form of synesthesia - and again, not to my knowledge on the spectrum - so I wonder if this is a matter of all of us, regardless, identifying or connecting with different things. And that's really my point here. There's no objective way of identifying any of that. It is all subjective, by definition, because it's all down to the specific user. I don't care whether people "value" song-lengths or not, as long as they recognize there's no value to that beyond "they prefer it". I think some people here have a little difficulty understanding that because THEY value it, personally, that doesn't mean it has any value outside of that. You don't strike me as being snobbish, but just look in the various threads around here that are about music that might have a more commercial angle to it - Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift come to mind - and the snobbery of others is pretty well apparent, when at the end of the day, what we like is in large part dumb luck. :)
My favourite music related quote is from my favourite musician, and it goes " So you're saying that when I was younger, and wasn't deliberately trying to rip anyone off, my influences somehow showed themselves, but now that I'm older and actually 100% set out to rip someone off, it's either unmistakably my own or sounds like a different artist entirely. Ha ha! Music is dumb". It perfectly encapsulates everything about the subjectivity of music, and the "music is dumb" part is pure art.
I fell in the "ignore theory bro" hole when learning to play guitar, and it really ruined my progress at the start. When I started studying music, a whole new world was shown to me. Sure I won't compose like Mozart for knowing what a I-IV-V progression is, but understanding what it is and how it sounds, I will recognize it in what I'm listening to, and then I can learn from those examples.
NEW TEASER FROM THE ALIEN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw-wBAJGo1M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw-wBAJGo1M)
Ha ha, I was too lazy to dig the album out so just went with the original guy’s post and what was on Apple Music. I suppose, if you’re going to be a pedantic asshole, you should take the time (no pun intended) to get it right!
Beatrice, red your post with much interest. Although I’ve not autism myself, I am both through personal life and profession very familair with the spectrum. I can understand what you’re saying, though for me it’s nearly the opposite. I do not have the knowledge to understand songs on a deep level, for me it’s almost all ‘bout the emotion in the track. The more that emotion is regocnizable, the more I love it.
And emotion can come in so many ways, due to the energy (Honor Thy Father), the rytm (Glass Prison), the riff, the melody (Barstool Warrior) or the lyrics (Shattered Fortress).
The biggest thing about theory for me is that it allows a language that can be used for teaching. You can not teach "feel" but you can approximate understanding with your student if you speak in theoretical language.
I've listened to the teaser a few times and I have to say this is the best MM's drums have ever sounded.
My favourite music related quote is from my favourite musician, and it goes " So you're saying that when I was younger, and wasn't deliberately trying to rip anyone off, my influences somehow showed themselves, but now that I'm older and actually 100% set out to rip someone off, it's either unmistakably my own or sounds like a different artist entirely. Ha ha! Music is dumb". It perfectly encapsulates everything about the subjectivity of music, and the "music is dumb" part is pure art.
OK, that's cool; I'm not here to shit on that, but I don't see why putting it out there that it's not a factor for me is "raining on anyone's parade".
OK, that's cool; I'm not here to shit on that, but I don't see why putting it out there that it's not a factor for me is "raining on anyone's parade".
But that's exactly what you have done, and doubled down on it several times over the course of several pages. The fact that you "don't see" it misses the point that several people have pointed it out to you, and rather than acknowledge it and move on, you just dug in your heels even further and, seemingly intentionally, just talked past the point by raising nonsequiturs. As plenty of others pointed out, that does nothing to address the actual points being made in the thread, and only drags down the discussion about the new album.
My favourite music related quote is from my favourite musician, and it goes " So you're saying that when I was younger, and wasn't deliberately trying to rip anyone off, my influences somehow showed themselves, but now that I'm older and actually 100% set out to rip someone off, it's either unmistakably my own or sounds like a different artist entirely. Ha ha! Music is dumb". It perfectly encapsulates everything about the subjectivity of music, and the "music is dumb" part is pure art.
:lol I love that quote. Who is that from?
Holy crap, I haven't listened to Kayo Dot in YEARS.My favourite music related quote is from my favourite musician, and it goes " So you're saying that when I was younger, and wasn't deliberately trying to rip anyone off, my influences somehow showed themselves, but now that I'm older and actually 100% set out to rip someone off, it's either unmistakably my own or sounds like a different artist entirely. Ha ha! Music is dumb". It perfectly encapsulates everything about the subjectivity of music, and the "music is dumb" part is pure art.
:lol I love that quote. Who is that from?
Beatrice can confirm it, but it's Toby Driver (Kayo Dot).
Since she posted it, I've searched. I also thought it was excellent. :lol
My favourite music related quote is from my favourite musician, and it goes " So you're saying that when I was younger, and wasn't deliberately trying to rip anyone off, my influences somehow showed themselves, but now that I'm older and actually 100% set out to rip someone off, it's either unmistakably my own or sounds like a different artist entirely. Ha ha! Music is dumb". It perfectly encapsulates everything about the subjectivity of music, and the "music is dumb" part is pure art.
:lol I love that quote. Who is that from?
Beatrice can confirm it, but it's Toby Driver (Kayo Dot).
Since she posted it, I've searched. I also thought it was excellent. :lol
I hope there is a Special Edition of the CD version with a DVD. I hope the only way to get any extras is not the super duper mega expensive edition.The artbook? It's $50 and has everything you need.
The Alien is out in New Zealand, listening to it now
The Alien is out in New Zealand, listening to it now
Well??
The Alien is out in New Zealand, listening to it now
Well??
He's had it on loop the whole time because it's that good.
First vocal melody sounds almost identical to a melody from Pale Blue Dot.
First vocal melody sounds almost identical to a melody from Pale Blue Dot.
I think it's more similar to the first verse from Moment of Betrayal
I preordered on iTunes and I was quite disappointed that there are no "previews" yet for each track. :lol
Here's the official pre-order link for the different versions:
https://dream-theater.lnk.to/aviewfromthetopoftheworld
The CD edition on InsideOut's store also includes the downloadable digital version. Pretty cool for us CD buyers.
I wonder if Noxon would give us any more details about the songs now the single is out and we got the first taste. In terms of musical direction of the rest of the album and so on.
Perhaps after listening to the whole album it ended up being too much of an overload of information. Now he is recovering from a nervous breakdown? 🤪
I wonder if Noxon would give us any more details about the songs now the single is out and we got the first taste. In terms of musical direction of the rest of the album and so on.
Noxon hasn't commented here for a week ...
It's included in the Artbook version as well not just the deluxe boxset.
It's included in the Artbook version as well not just the deluxe boxset.
What does "the Artbook version" mean?
All I'm interested in is the album (on a CD) and the documentary.
It's included in the Artbook version as well not just the deluxe boxset.
What does "the Artbook version" mean?
All I'm interested in is the album (on a CD) and the documentary.
2CD + Blu-ray in an album-sized book for about $50.
It's included in the Artbook version as well not just the deluxe boxset.
What does "the Artbook version" mean?
All I'm interested in is the album (on a CD) and the documentary.
Perhaps after listening to the whole album it ended up being too much of an overload of information. Now he is recovering from a nervous breakdown? 🤪
I wonder if Noxon would give us any more details about the songs now the single is out and we got the first taste. In terms of musical direction of the rest of the album and so on.
Noxon hasn't commented here for a week ...
It's included in the Artbook version as well not just the deluxe boxset.
What does "the Artbook version" mean?
All I'm interested in is the album (on a CD) and the documentary.
2CD + Blu-ray in an album-sized book for about $50.
What's the second CD?
Or it's so good he's speechless! :-XPerhaps after listening to the whole album it ended up being too much of an overload of information. Now he is recovering from a nervous breakdown? 🤪
I wonder if Noxon would give us any more details about the songs now the single is out and we got the first taste. In terms of musical direction of the rest of the album and so on.
Noxon hasn't commented here for a week ...
It's included in the Artbook version as well not just the deluxe boxset.
What does "the Artbook version" mean?
All I'm interested in is the album (on a CD) and the documentary.
2CD + Blu-ray in an album-sized book for about $50.
What's the second CD?
Instrumental versions, I think.
I hope the bluray has graphics to all the songs like the single.
I hope the bluray has graphics to all the songs like the single.
I’m in Australia and preordered from JB hi fi. Seems to be 4 different versions with solid descriptions. I’m sure it’s all the same but certainly made my life easy to order and the descriptions seemed pretty clear what was included in each if there was any previous confusion…
https://www.jbhifi.com.au/collections/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world (https://www.jbhifi.com.au/collections/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world)
I’m in Australia and preordered from JB hi fi. Seems to be 4 different versions with solid descriptions. I’m sure it’s all the same but certainly made my life easy to order and the descriptions seemed pretty clear what was included in each if there was any previous confusion…
https://www.jbhifi.com.au/collections/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world (https://www.jbhifi.com.au/collections/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world)
Good old reliable JB.
Could be absolutely nothing or my phone just playing silly buggers, but noticed today when I went into Apple Music, that when clicking on the new album, “The Alien” and “Answering the call” both had the little download icon to the right of them (no other tracks did). You obviously can’t download Answering the Call and its title isn’t highlighted like the Alien, but it could potentially point to Answering the Call being the next single. Take that with a grain of salt though, as it may also just point to my phone needing an update…
I believe there is a hidden track on the bluray that is just them playing "Ya Mon" like in studio.I hope the bluray has graphics to all the songs like the single.
I know this is a nitpick but this is what actually bugged me (well...disappointed me) about the LTE3 bluray. The promo videos they released featured visuals along with footage of the guys playing throughout most or all of the 3 singles' videos. I get the bluray and none of those videos are included. With the exception of the two duets, it's mostly visuals with an occasional shot of a band member here and there. I think the only shot of JP in the bluray version of "Beating The Odds" is the intro riff and then strictly visuals for the rest of the song. :huh:
I believe there is a hidden track on the bluray that is just them playing "Ya Mon" like in studio.
I'll only order the deluxe box set if it includes footage of them terraforming other planets.
I'll only order the deluxe box set if it includes footage of them terraforming other planets.
What if Dream Theater reveals that the deluxe box set includes footage of them terraforming only one planet? ;)
I believe there is a hidden track on the bluray that is just them playing "Ya Mon" like in studio.I hope the bluray has graphics to all the songs like the single.
I know this is a nitpick but this is what actually bugged me (well...disappointed me) about the LTE3 bluray. The promo videos they released featured visuals along with footage of the guys playing throughout most or all of the 3 singles' videos. I get the bluray and none of those videos are included. With the exception of the two duets, it's mostly visuals with an occasional shot of a band member here and there. I think the only shot of JP in the bluray version of "Beating The Odds" is the intro riff and then strictly visuals for the rest of the song. :huh:
I'll only order the deluxe box set if it includes footage of them terraforming other planets.
What if Dream Theater reveals that the deluxe box set includes footage of them terraforming only one planet? ;)
And what if they're only terraforming Uranus? :o
-Marc.
And what if they're only terraforming Uranus? :o
-Marc.
A certificate that this box set is real? :lol
I stopped ordering the deluxe box sets from Dream Theater with The Astonishing. I really only use the vinyl and those box sets include a bunch of stuff I have no use for. A beanie? A keychain? A certificate that this box set is real? :lol I'll stick to one of the colored vinyl editions.Just for the record, there are translucent blue and green versions, each limited to 500 copies and only available in the U.S., if I got it correctly. I went with grey, which fits the album covers' colour palette somehow.
Talking of those: is it possible that the label and the band sat down together and talked about what the most boring colors for limited vinyl editions would be? Olive green, brown, grey and a washed out orange? DT is the biggest active prog band (okay, not counting Tool or Muse), why do smaller bands always manage to have better layout and design for their releases :huh:
I hope I can say this without issue being that "The Alien" is getting some mixed responses. I personally love this song but I will say this does not in ANY way represent the entire album. This is only 1 of 7 dimensions without giving away the magnitude of what is to come.
I hope I can say this without issue being that "The Alien" is getting some mixed responses. I personally love this song but I will say this does not in ANY way represent the entire album. This is only 1 of 7 dimensions without giving away the magnitude of what is to come.
I hope I can say this without issue being that "The Alien" is getting some mixed responses. I personally love this song but I will say this does not in ANY way represent the entire album. This is only 1 of 7 dimensions without giving away the magnitude of what is to come.
We already know JP used his 8 string guitar for one song.
Do we know how many songs he used his 6 string and 7 string for?
I have a suspicion that the epic called for a 7 string,as in ACOS,or Key to the Imagination.
Just for the record, there are translucent blue and green versions, each limited to 500 copies and only available in the U.S., if I got it correctly. I went with grey, which fits the album covers' colour palette somehow.
(One that really bugs me: Baroness' Blue Record in bright magenta coloured vinyl. Why, just why?)
I'll only order the deluxe box set if it includes footage of them terraforming other planets.
What if Dream Theater reveals that the deluxe box set includes footage of them terraforming only one planet? ;)
And what if they're only terraforming Uranus? :o
-Marc.
Answering The Call and A View From The Top of the World is 7 string, Awaken the Master is 8, and the rest is 6.
:rollinI'll only order the deluxe box set if it includes footage of them terraforming other planets.
What if Dream Theater reveals that the deluxe box set includes footage of them terraforming only one planet? ;)
And what if they're only terraforming Uranus? :o
-Marc.
It would be very gassy
Here are my first impressions: https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2021/08/17/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-premieres-impressions/
Yeah I know it's in French but if you use Google translate, you should be able to get through it (or you should be able to understand a few words as 33% of the English words come from the French language ;))
Here are my first impressions: https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2021/08/17/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-premieres-impressions/
Yeah I know it's in French but if you use Google translate, you should be able to get through it (or you should be able to understand a few words as 33% of the English words come from the French language ;))
I mostly disliked D/T because of the production. As DT USA wrote, A View from the Top of the world is very much in line with what DT did with D/T. I'm pretty sure the album will please those who love D/T but it might appeal to the other fans. I think it will be a less cleaving album than D/T or The Astonishing.
And when I wrote the review I only had a couple of spins so I was not rating this album highly or poorly, I've always been cautious to avoid rating the albums after a few listenings as we all know that many DT albums are growers ;)
Sounds promising, i really enjoy D/T and The Alien has grown a lot for me. I'm curious about the intensity that we've been hearing, since 70 minutes of music need a little breather, and i like the softer parts of DTs music.
Sounds promising, i really enjoy D/T and The Alien has grown a lot for me. I'm curious about the intensity that we've been hearing, since 70 minutes of music need a little breather, and i like the softer parts of DTs music.
As far as I know there are very few soft parts…
@dream75: stop stalking me :lol :lol :lol Anyway, yes it gets better IMO.
@nikatapi: no ballad, a few soft moments but it's really intense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o0P49FG_nY
this sounds promising
Maybe because he rested his voice for a long time and now sounds kinda fresh. To me, sounds promising too for the upcoming tour. Though this all cameo singing a bit slow but still great.
@nikatapi: no ballad, a few soft moments but it's really intense.
@nikatapi: no ballad, a few soft moments but it's really intense.
I don't know why this makes me excited. Even Train Of Thought had a ballad, so i wonder how the flow of the album will be.
Fair points about the ballads.
I'm also really curious about the self-titled song, as i guess most of us. Usually it's these huge epics that go through different movements and vibes, as well as technically challenging sections. I hope there's a strong musical theme that ties everything together.
Fair points about the ballads.
I'm also really curious about the self-titled song, as i guess most of us. Usually it's these huge epics that go through different movements and vibes, as well as technically challenging sections. I hope there's a strong musical theme that ties everything together.
I feel like all their mega songs since Octavarium have been long for the sake of it and a bit of a hodge-podge. Illumination Theory definitely was.
My favourite 'Epic' after Octavarium ( their best song ) is The Count Of Tuscany.
Least fave is A Change Of Seasons.
So i'm hoping A View From the Top Of The World is their best Mega-Song since Octavarium and not just " we need a 20 min song ".
Loving tuscany and hating a change of seasons is surprising, but I guess there isn't only one authorized taste :DFair points about the ballads.
I'm also really curious about the self-titled song, as i guess most of us. Usually it's these huge epics that go through different movements and vibes, as well as technically challenging sections. I hope there's a strong musical theme that ties everything together.
I feel like all their mega songs since Octavarium have been long for the sake of it and a bit of a hodge-podge. Illumination Theory definitely was.
My favourite 'Epic' after Octavarium ( their best song ) is The Count Of Tuscany.
Least fave is A Change Of Seasons.
So i'm hoping A View From the Top Of The World is their best Mega-Song since Octavarium and not just " we need a 20 min song ".
On songs like A Change Of Seasons ( which i've listened to like 4 times and still don't like ) and Illumination theory -Opinions vary.
new sections just...start... And they've been doing that a lot recently. It just has the air of " if we pad this section out with 5 different riffs we can get the whole piece to 20 mins ".
Do you go into restaurants and walk up to the maitre D and say " this is a restaurant " ?No, but frequently, when I encounter an asshole, I'm OK with saying "You're an asshole."
No, but frequently, when I encounter an asshole, I'm OK with saying "You're an asshole."
Good thing that rarely happens here at DTF.
But 'mods" can do whatever the fuck they want apparently. Just don't diss Mike Portnoy! Even though he's not in Dream Theater anymore and hasn't been for over a decade.
Re: epics, I would absolutely love another one in the vain of Octavarium where it's a very clear build over the movements, with gradually increasing intensity throughout. Though I don't think Illumination Theory flows badly by any means... my issue with that song is mostly just that the finale falls really flat. It feels like they were trying really hard to do another Razor's Edge, but there just isn't any strong melody to back the grand instrumentation up, and the solo's fine but not enough to elevate the section much.
Also - it's a good thing you can't ban yourself. Because we all know 100% that If I called another DTF member an "asshole" I would be banned so fast.I didn't call anyone an asshole. I certainly didn't call YOU an asshole. Sorry you felt that way.
But 'mods" can do whatever the fuck they want apparently. Just don't diss Mike Portnoy! Even though he's not in Dream Theater anymore and hasn't been for over a decade.
The short arse blue bearded middle aged crisis 5 drum fills wanker.Quote from: baldcuntNo, but frequently, when I encounter an asshole, I'm OK with saying "You're an asshole."
Good thing that rarely happens here at DTF.
Also - it's a good thing you can't ban yourself. Because we all know 100% that If I called another DTF member an "asshole" I would be banned so fast.
But 'mods" can do whatever the fuck they want apparently. Just don't diss Mike Portnoy! Even though he's not in Dream Theater anymore and hasn't been for over a decade.
The short arse blue bearded middle aged crisis 5 drum fills wanker.Quote from: baldcuntNo, but frequently, when I encounter an asshole, I'm OK with saying "You're an asshole."
Good thing that rarely happens here at DTF.
Re: epics, I would absolutely love another one in the vain of Octavarium where it's a very clear build over the movements, with gradually increasing intensity throughout. Though I don't think Illumination Theory flows badly by any means... my issue with that song is mostly just that the finale falls really flat. It feels like they were trying really hard to do another Razor's Edge, but there just isn't any strong melody to back the grand instrumentation up, and the solo's fine but not enough to elevate the section much.
And they re-used the ambient mid section idea from The Count. The string section is very nice though.
Re: epics, I would absolutely love another one in the vain of Octavarium where it's a very clear build over the movements, with gradually increasing intensity throughout. Though I don't think Illumination Theory flows badly by any means... my issue with that song is mostly just that the finale falls really flat. It feels like they were trying really hard to do another Razor's Edge, but there just isn't any strong melody to back the grand instrumentation up, and the solo's fine but not enough to elevate the section much.
And they re-used the ambient mid section idea from The Count. The string section is very nice though.
The ambient section's fine and doesn't sound all that similar to the one from TCOT imo. I know someone said this earlier (I forget who) but while that section might seem out-of-nowhere in a vacuum it makes perfect sense given the lyrical concept of the song.
I can't agree or disagree with that, but I will say that, as far as I know based on DT's style, it's quite likely the lyrics were not written til well after the music was completely done. So with DT, I believe it's rare (though not impossible) for the music to fit the lyrics given how it's written.
I can't agree or disagree with that, but I will say that, as far as I know based on DT's style, it's quite likely the lyrics were not written til well after the music was completely done. So with DT, I believe it's rare (though not impossible) for the music to fit the lyrics given how it's written.
Credit where credit's due, even if it's by accident. :lol
For my money - Octavarium flows nicely and each section follows logically. It doesn't feel like 24 minutes have passed by the end.
On songs like A Change Of Seasons ( which i've listened to like 4 times and still don't like ) and Illumination theory -
new sections just...start... And they've been doing that a lot recently. It just has the air of " if we pad this section out with 5 different riffs we can get the whole piece to 20 mins ".
I can't agree or disagree with that, but I will say that, as far as I know based on DT's style, it's quite likely the lyrics were not written til well after the music was completely done. So with DT, I believe it's rare (though not impossible) for the music to fit the lyrics given how it's written.
Credit where credit's due, even if it's by accident. :lol
It also shows how easy it is to interpret almost anything to mean almost anything. I often see people analyzing very weird lyrics to have some incredibly in-depth meaning and so forth. Then I'll write lyrics and find myself just randomly putting words together that sound cool without a ton of thought and wonder if some of those "brillaint" songs were written similarly. :lol
I've also done this for fun with my own songs. Write music, eventually write vocals, then justify XY or Z musical choices with how it represents blah blah blah in the story when that was never the intent going in, just easy to do.
Unless it is from Noxon,or someone that has had the time to listen to it multiple times,and digest the new material.
Mike Portnoy sucks.
*waits to be banned*
Mike Portnoy sucks.
*waits to be banned*
For those who reported the post: I'm glad you guys are using the report button when you see a potential issue rather than escalating a situation by responding directly. But there is no need to report when someone is obviously joking/being sarcastic. Please go to your control panel and make sure your sense of humor settings are switched to "on."
Mike Portnoy sucks.
*waits to be banned*
For those who reported the post: I'm glad you guys are using the report button when you see a potential issue rather than escalating a situation by responding directly. But there is no need to report when someone is obviously joking/being sarcastic. Please go to your control panel and make sure your sense of humor settings are switched to "on."
Mike Portnoy sucks.
*waits to be banned*
For those who reported the post: I'm glad you guys are using the report button when you see a potential issue rather than escalating a situation by responding directly. But there is no need to report when someone is obviously joking/being sarcastic. Please go to your control panel and make sure your sense of humor settings are switched to "on."
No ballads, a few softer spots, 90s throwbacks, sounds like my kind of album!!! :metal :metal :metal
The title track random thoughts: Extremely Grandiose, takes me on a journey through trial of tears, Metropolis, Learning to live BUT also think Fates Warning “Still Remains” and any epic tune by Threshold. Mesmerizing. Very serious. It sucks you in….. Jim Matheos will love this one… Ray Alder would sound great as a guest on it.. these are just quick thoughts that hit me on this tune.
The title track random thoughts: Extremely Grandiose, takes me on a journey through trial of tears, Metropolis, Learning to live BUT also think Fates Warning “Still Remains” and any epic tune by Threshold. Mesmerizing. Very serious. It sucks you in….. Jim Matheos will love this one… Ray Alder would sound great as a guest on it.. these are just quick thoughts that hit me on this tune.
:omg: :omg: :omg:
I'm just gonna have to take your word for it until the release.
Very serious. It sucks
Very serious. It sucks
Oh no
I don’t find Octavarium to be any more or less of a hodge podge than the others. They are all long for the sake of being long to a degree. I think ACOS probably justifies it’s length better than most as it has a narrative running through it and needs to cover the different seasons our life, the drum sound is pretty horrible in it though, much more bothersome to me than how they sounded on Illumination Theory.
Re: epics, I would absolutely love another one in the vain of Octavarium where it's a very clear build over the movements, with gradually increasing intensity throughout. Though I don't think Illumination Theory flows badly by any means... my issue with that song is mostly just that the finale falls really flat. It feels like they were trying really hard to do another Razor's Edge, but there just isn't any strong melody to back the grand instrumentation up, and the solo's fine but not enough to elevate the section much.
And they re-used the ambient mid section idea from The Count. The string section is very nice though.
The ambient section's fine and doesn't sound all that similar to the one from TCOT imo. I know someone said this earlier (I forget who) but while that section might seem out-of-nowhere in a vacuum it makes perfect sense given the lyrical concept of the song.
I commented on this in the Illumination Theory appreciation thread, so I will just transfer here a modified version of what I said since we are talking about disjointedness. IT is very cohesive for me because of the symmetry of the song.
Section 1: Paradox of the Black Light. Slow, majestic, a bit heavy so it is not yet "illuminated". This is an overture to the un-illuminated sections of the song.
Section 2: The heavy riffing section. At first this seems to be just a wanky instrumental but it actually acts as a bridge between Section 1 and Section 3. This serves an important narrative function once we get to the later sections. Note also that it is mostly a standard rocking beat, with some time signature changes only at the end upon approaching the Live, Die, Kill section.
Section 3: Live, Die Kill. The section poses the questions: What are you willing to live for? to die for? to kill for? It is asking for "an answer that begs to be found". The section has two subsections: the first has lyrics playing to a main riff, the second is the instrumental section that has plenty of time signature changes.
Section 4: Embracing Circle, ambient section. If Live, Die, Kill referred to a more down-to-earth plane of existence, to grounded reality, the Embracing Circle is situated in a transcendental plane. The ambient section is formless and lengthy, which signifies that the questions posed in Live, Die, Kill remain unanswered even in a moment of transcendence and it remains quite unanswered for a long time. The length of the section is important because it serves the narrative function of indicating that illumination or enlightenment does not come easily.
BREAK in the Narrative: Now we start to mirror the previous sections.
Section 5: Embracing Circle, orchestral section. This mirrors Section 4. We are still in the transcendental plane, but unlike Section 4, illumination starts to creep in slowly with the build up of the orchestral part. Illumination climaxes with a moment of enlightenment, signified by the orchestral version of the intro melody. It sort of mirrors Section 1 as well. The end of the orchestral section is an overture to the "illuminated" section of the song, The Pursuit of Truth. It will not serve its proper narrative function if it is placed at the start, because the more heavy-sounding music of Paradox of the Black Light better fits as an introduction to the "un-illuminated" Live, Die and Kill section. The two overtures share the same melody.
Section 6. The Pursuit of Truth. This mirrors Section 3. The section starts with reverse swells, which signals a return from the transcendental plane to grounded reality. After the moment of enlightenment in The Embracing Circle, the song now has answers to the questions posed in Live, Die, Kill. What are mothers willing to live, die and kill for? Their children. Husbands are willing to live, die and kill for their wives. Martyrs are willing to live die and kill for the kingdom. And so on and so forth. The Pursuit of Truth answers the questions of Live, Die, Kill. Still mirroring Section 3, the section also has two subsections: the first has lyrics playing to a main riff, the second is the instrumental section that has plenty of time signature changes.
Section 7: The heavy riffing section. This mirrors Section 2. It follows the same structure and uses the same riff! This serves as a bridge between Section 6 and Section 8. While Section 2 bridged the Paradox to the questions, Section 7 bridged the answers to the Paradox. Like Section 2, this section has a lot of wanky instrumentals and plays to a standard rocking beat, with a change in the tempo at the end approaching the Surrender, Trust and Passion section.
Section 8. Surrender, Trust and Passion. And now we have come full circle. This mirrors Section 1. Section 8 is also slow and majestic, but unlike Section 1, it is uplifting because illumination has already been achieved. Section 1 is titled the Paradox of the Black Light, and the lyrics in Section 8 spell out the paradox. And if I overanalyze the lyrics, even the lyrics here are symmetrical. LOL
Introduce with a paradox:
"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"
Surrender: Lyrics refer to illumination by referencing light.
"When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days"
Trust: Middle section, still in keeping the visuality of the Illumination Theory, we refer to opening one's eyes.
"If you open up your eyes
And you put your trust in love
On those cold and endless nights
You will never be alone"
Passion: Mirror the Surrender subsection. Lyrics refer to illumination by referencing bright.
"Passion glows within your heart
Like a furnace burning bright"
Mirror the intro. End with a paradox:
"Until you struggle through the dark
You'll never know that you're alive"
And as one more bit of analysis, which may be stretching a bit. Paradox of the Black Light started with a crescendo drum roll. Surrender, Trust and Passion ends with a decrescendo drum roll.
----------
This is how I viewed IT. Which is why I don't think I will really understand how it can be described as disjointed. It is very cohesive not just lyrically but structurally as well. The disjoint that some people feel, I think, is because the narrative of the song is really about transitioning from dark to light but ending up in a paradox where light is in the darkness. There is a deliberate disjointedness, from grounded to transcendent, from fast to slow parts. The transitions serve a narrative function.
That, and hefdaddy42 facts.Which may have been lost to the sands of time.
I commented on this in the Illumination Theory appreciation thread, so I will just transfer here a modified version of what I said since we are talking about disjointedness. IT is very cohesive for me because of the symmetry of the song.
Section 1: Paradox of the Black Light. Slow, majestic, a bit heavy so it is not yet "illuminated". This is an overture to the un-illuminated sections of the song.
Section 2: The heavy riffing section. At first this seems to be just a wanky instrumental but it actually acts as a bridge between Section 1 and Section 3. This serves an important narrative function once we get to the later sections. Note also that it is mostly a standard rocking beat, with some time signature changes only at the end upon approaching the Live, Die, Kill section.
Section 3: Live, Die Kill. The section poses the questions: What are you willing to live for? to die for? to kill for? It is asking for "an answer that begs to be found". The section has two subsections: the first has lyrics playing to a main riff, the second is the instrumental section that has plenty of time signature changes.
Section 4: Embracing Circle, ambient section. If Live, Die, Kill referred to a more down-to-earth plane of existence, to grounded reality, the Embracing Circle is situated in a transcendental plane. The ambient section is formless and lengthy, which signifies that the questions posed in Live, Die, Kill remain unanswered even in a moment of transcendence and it remains quite unanswered for a long time. The length of the section is important because it serves the narrative function of indicating that illumination or enlightenment does not come easily.
BREAK in the Narrative: Now we start to mirror the previous sections.
Section 5: Embracing Circle, orchestral section. This mirrors Section 4. We are still in the transcendental plane, but unlike Section 4, illumination starts to creep in slowly with the build up of the orchestral part. Illumination climaxes with a moment of enlightenment, signified by the orchestral version of the intro melody. It sort of mirrors Section 1 as well. The end of the orchestral section is an overture to the "illuminated" section of the song, The Pursuit of Truth. It will not serve its proper narrative function if it is placed at the start, because the more heavy-sounding music of Paradox of the Black Light better fits as an introduction to the "un-illuminated" Live, Die and Kill section. The two overtures share the same melody.
Section 6. The Pursuit of Truth. This mirrors Section 3. The section starts with reverse swells, which signals a return from the transcendental plane to grounded reality. After the moment of enlightenment in The Embracing Circle, the song now has answers to the questions posed in Live, Die, Kill. What are mothers willing to live, die and kill for? Their children. Husbands are willing to live, die and kill for their wives. Martyrs are willing to live die and kill for the kingdom. And so on and so forth. The Pursuit of Truth answers the questions of Live, Die, Kill. Still mirroring Section 3, the section also has two subsections: the first has lyrics playing to a main riff, the second is the instrumental section that has plenty of time signature changes.
Section 7: The heavy riffing section. This mirrors Section 2. It follows the same structure and uses the same riff! This serves as a bridge between Section 6 and Section 8. While Section 2 bridged the Paradox to the questions, Section 7 bridged the answers to the Paradox. Like Section 2, this section has a lot of wanky instrumentals and plays to a standard rocking beat, with a change in the tempo at the end approaching the Surrender, Trust and Passion section.
Section 8. Surrender, Trust and Passion. And now we have come full circle. This mirrors Section 1. Section 8 is also slow and majestic, but unlike Section 1, it is uplifting because illumination has already been achieved. Section 1 is titled the Paradox of the Black Light, and the lyrics in Section 8 spell out the paradox. And if I overanalyze the lyrics, even the lyrics here are symmetrical. LOL
Introduce with a paradox:
"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"
Surrender: Lyrics refer to illumination by referencing light.
"When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days"
Trust: Middle section, still in keeping the visuality of the Illumination Theory, we refer to opening one's eyes.
"If you open up your eyes
And you put your trust in love
On those cold and endless nights
You will never be alone"
Passion: Mirror the Surrender subsection. Lyrics refer to illumination by referencing bright.
"Passion glows within your heart
Like a furnace burning bright"
Mirror the intro. End with a paradox:
"Until you struggle through the dark
You'll never know that you're alive"
And as one more bit of analysis, which may be stretching a bit. Paradox of the Black Light started with a crescendo drum roll. Surrender, Trust and Passion ends with a decrescendo drum roll.
This is how I viewed IT. Which is why I don't think I will really understand how it can be described as disjointed. It is very cohesive not just lyrically but structurally as well. The disjoint that some people feel, I think, is because the narrative of the song is really about transitioning from dark to light but ending up in a paradox where light is in the darkness. There is a deliberate disjointedness, from grounded to transcendent, from fast to slow parts. The transitions serve a narrative function.
If this album really is the return-to-classic-DT sound that it's been touted as by some... I think it will be interesting to
compare Portnoy's first five and Mangini's first five albums.
E.g.
When Dream & Day Unite. Images & Words. Awake. Falling Into Infinity. Scenes From A Memory
vs.
A Dramatic Turn Of Events. Dream Theater. The Astonishing. Distance Over Time. A View From The Top Of The World.
:)
I've been living with the new Dream Theater album now for a couple of weeks. I think I can confidently say it's their finest release in a decade!
Take this with a grain of salt, but I don't get "return-to-classic-DT sound" vibes at all. There is a definite comparison to something in the DT family that I could make, but I'll hold off because I don't want anyone to get any preconceived notions about what that means. I like the new album. But I wouldn't say I get "classic DT" vibes from it.
I don't think he'll mind me reposting his comment on FB, but this is what Rich Wilson said regarding AVFtTotW:QuoteI've been living with the new Dream Theater album now for a couple of weeks. I think I can confidently say it's their finest release in a decade!
Sounds good to me!
I don't think he'll mind me reposting his comment on FB, but this is what Rich Wilson said regarding AVFtTotW:QuoteI've been living with the new Dream Theater album now for a couple of weeks. I think I can confidently say it's their finest release in a decade!
Sounds good to me!
Well, IIRC, Rich Wilson has some really strange opinions in the DT book (that broke from the consensus) about their songs and albums, so I will be taking his comments with a grain of salt. ;)
That said, if they manage to top The Astonishing, I will be ecstatic. :tup :tup
I don't think he'll mind me reposting his comment on FB, but this is what Rich Wilson said regarding AVFtTotW:QuoteI've been living with the new Dream Theater album now for a couple of weeks. I think I can confidently say it's their finest release in a decade!
Sounds good to me!
Well, IIRC, Rich Wilson has some really strange opinions in the DT book (that broke from the consensus) about their songs and albums, so I will be taking his comments with a grain of salt. ;)
That said, if they manage to top The Astonishing, I will be ecstatic. :tup :tup
Sounds like you have some consensus breaking opinions yourself there. Assuming you’re not being sarcastic of course.
I don't know that I would take a hard line on it, but I think what most folks consider their "classic period" is I&W - SFAM. Even though there is a lot of diversity in that period, I think you can definitely say, looking back, that there is somewhat of a defining sound to that era of the band, and that is what produced much of what people would consider to be the true DT "classics."
So, back to the discussion at hand, I don't find that the new album sounds a lot like that era, IMO.
Does anybody know if the writing was finished on this album before Terminal Velocity and LTE3 were written?
Does anybody know if the writing was finished on this album before Terminal Velocity and LTE3 were written?
I've been living with the new Dream Theater album now for a couple of weeks. I think I can confidently say it's their finest release in a decade!
I don't know that I would take a hard line on it, but I think what most folks consider their "classic period" is I&W - SFAM.I wonder why six degrees is out...Is it because of the glass prison ? Because with a 45 minutes concept song and other songs like blind faith somewhere between FII and more progAF releases, to me there is a bubble with scenes+six degrees+LTE1+LTE2 that is hard to cut in half :)
To Glasser,Bosk,Noxon etc.It is a guitar driven album, Rudess has a lot of great moments but the MVP is definitely Mike Mangini IMO.
Would you say it's a guitar driven album,or does everyone shine equally?
Who of the members impresses you the most?
To Glasser,Bosk,Noxon etc.It is a guitar driven album, Rudess has a lot of great moments but the MVP is definitely Mike Mangini IMO.
Would you say it's a guitar driven album,or does everyone shine equally?
Who of the members impresses you the most?
And I agree with Rich: best album of the Mangini era (The Astonishing will remain one of the best albums of DT and better than AVFTTOTW but for me, it's more of a side project/musical by JP and JR than a DT album). And all things considered, it might be the best album since ... Train of Thought (again if I don't take The Astonishing into account).
And the album is NOT a return to the sound of the 90s or the 00s. It's a modern album very much in line with the other Mangini albums, very much in line with the "classic DT albums" that were created after Train of Thought. It has certains vibes that might remind you of a particular aspect or a particular riff of SFAM in one song or SDOIT etc...but it's not SFAM 2 or SDOIT 2. It would be DT12 but way better, with a better mix (not hard to do btw) and no fillers.
Well, the commonality of those is the new "write in the studio, record immediately" method that carried over from the the LTE albums to DT.I don't know that I would take a hard line on it, but I think what most folks consider their "classic period" is I&W - SFAM.I wonder why six degrees is out...Is it because of the glass prison ? Because with a 45 minutes concept song and other songs like blind faith somewhere between FII and more progAF releases, to me there is a bubble with scenes+six degrees+LTE1+LTE2 that is hard to cut in half :)
I don't think he'll mind me reposting his comment on FB, but this is what Rich Wilson said regarding AVFtTotW:QuoteI've been living with the new Dream Theater album now for a couple of weeks. I think I can confidently say it's their finest release in a decade!
Sounds good to me!
Well, IIRC, Rich Wilson has some really strange opinions in the DT book (that broke from the consensus) about their songs and albums, so I will be taking his comments with a grain of salt. ;)
That said, if they manage to top The Astonishing, I will be ecstatic. :tup :tup
Sounds like you have some consensus breaking opinions yourself there. Assuming you’re not being sarcastic of course.
Haha, we all do!
It's cool that someone who has heard the album is talking it up, but I am still taking it with a grain of salt. That is all I am saying.
I'm also curious about the documentary that's part of the deluxe package.
around 38 minutesI'm also curious about the documentary that's part of the deluxe package.
I'm curious about this, too. Do we know if it's at least longer than four minutes this time?
around 38 minutesI'm also curious about the documentary that's part of the deluxe package.
I'm curious about this, too. Do we know if it's at least longer than four minutes this time?
On the new promo vídeo, the lyrics for Sleeping Giant, Awaken the Master and Transcending Time appear as they are in the artwork. I tried to zoom in and look at the authors and some bits of words but couldn't do it, too blurry. Did someone get anything?
https://youtu.be/HkDxH1hH8kc
On the new promo vídeo, the lyrics for Sleeping Giant, Awaken the Master and Transcending Time appear as they are in the artwork. I tried to zoom in and look at the authors and some bits of words but couldn't do it, too blurry. Did someone get anything?
https://youtu.be/HkDxH1hH8kc
Indeed. Not everyone worships Images and Words so i'd hope it was better than that.
Myung getting sole lyric credit this time around rather than Myung/Petrucci co-credit. I wonder if that means it’s all his own work this time.
Indeed. Not everyone worships Images and Words so i'd hope it was better than that.
Once again, when I&W was released NOTHING came close to it at that time (Fates Warning No Exit was damn close tho as that was released before it). If you got into DT later on I can understand this opinion. That album literally created bands to form and try to be DT and a lot of them like Empty Tremor and Arkhe from Italy started the “Italian Dreamers” movement. I&W was the most pioneering album in prog Metal EVER, period.
Indeed. Not everyone worships Images and Words so i'd hope it was better than that.
Once again, when I&W was released NOTHING came close to it at that time (Fates Warning No Exit was damn close tho as that was released before it). If you got into DT later on I can understand this opinion. That album literally created bands to form and try to be DT and a lot of them like Empty Tremor and Arkhe from Italy started the “Italian Dreamers” movement. I&W was the most pioneering album in prog Metal EVER, period.
I agree on the I&W point. It was the album that out it ALL together. I liked Jim Matheos' vision, but I wouldn't call Not Exit damn close. Perfect Symmetry maybe, but No Exit is a whole 'nother animal.
Indeed. Not everyone worships Images and Words so i'd hope it was better than that.
Once again, when I&W was released NOTHING came close to it at that time (Fates Warning No Exit was damn close tho as that was released before it). If you got into DT later on I can understand this opinion. That album literally created bands to form and try to be DT and a lot of them like Empty Tremor and Arkhe from Italy started the “Italian Dreamers” movement. I&W was the most pioneering album in prog Metal EVER, period.
I agree on the I&W point. It was the album that out it ALL together. I liked Jim Matheos' vision, but I wouldn't call Not Exit damn close. Perfect Symmetry maybe, but No Exit is a whole 'nother animal.
Indeed. Not everyone worships Images and Words so i'd hope it was better than that.
Once again, when I&W was released NOTHING came close to it at that time (Fates Warning No Exit was damn close tho as that was released before it). If you got into DT later on I can understand this opinion. That album literally created bands to form and try to be DT and a lot of them like Empty Tremor and Arkhe from Italy started the “Italian Dreamers” movement. I&W was the most pioneering album in prog Metal EVER, period.
I agree on the I&W point. It was the album that out it ALL together. I liked Jim Matheos' vision, but I wouldn't call Not Exit damn close. Perfect Symmetry maybe, but No Exit is a whole 'nother animal.
I loved No Exit, still do. But damn close May be pushing it you’re right but “Ivory Gate of Dreams” is Epic!
Indeed. Not everyone worships Images and Words so i'd hope it was better than that.
Once again, when I&W was released NOTHING came close to it at that time (Fates Warning No Exit was damn close tho as that was released before it). If you got into DT later on I can understand this opinion. That album literally created bands to form and try to be DT and a lot of them like Empty Tremor and Arkhe from Italy started the “Italian Dreamers” movement. I&W was the most pioneering album in prog Metal EVER, period.
I agree on the I&W point. It was the album that out it ALL together. I liked Jim Matheos' vision, but I wouldn't call Not Exit damn close. Perfect Symmetry maybe, but No Exit is a whole 'nother animal.
I loved No Exit, still do. But damn close May be pushing it you’re right but “Ivory Gate of Dreams” is Epic!
Oh hell yes. I remember getting the floppy of Anarchy Divine attached to the cover of a Kerrang. Honestly, I was happy to hear that FW had a new singer.
Myung getting sole lyric credit this time around rather than Myung/Petrucci co-credit. I wonder if that means it’s all his own work this time.
Surrender to Reason is Myung not Myung/Petrucci
I like Arch era FW but Alder took them to an entire new level. It’s weird that Arch could have ended up in DT, imagine that? Would have been AWFUL and DT would not have had a long career. Now I’m picturing Ray Alder in DT and JLB in FW! :lol
Myung getting sole lyric credit this time around rather than Myung/Petrucci co-credit. I wonder if that means it’s all his own work this time.
Surrender to Reason is Myung not Myung/Petrucci
Yes but it’s long been hinted at that, whilst Myung has always been given a sole lyric credit, he actually brings in something akin to poetry and the band (probably Petrucci) have to do some work to turn them into usable song lyrics. On Distance Over Time, for the first time, Petrucci was given a co-write credit on Myung’s two songs and this seemed to be them finally acknowledging that he has some input on Myung penned songs.
On this album though they’re back to giving Myung sole credit so I’m just vaguely interested if that is because Myung brought in a fully completed set of lyrics or whether Petrucci just decided he didn’t need to take credit for adjusting them like he did on D/T
Myung getting sole lyric credit this time around rather than Myung/Petrucci co-credit. I wonder if that means it’s all his own work this time.
Surrender to Reason is Myung not Myung/Petrucci
Yes but it’s long been hinted at that, whilst Myung has always been given a sole lyric credit, he actually brings in something akin to poetry and the band (probably Petrucci) have to do some work to turn them into usable song lyrics. On Distance Over Time, for the first time, Petrucci was given a co-write credit on Myung’s two songs and this seemed to be them finally acknowledging that he has some input on Myung penned songs.
On this album though they’re back to giving Myung sole credit so I’m just vaguely interested if that is because Myung brought in a fully completed set of lyrics or whether Petrucci just decided he didn’t need to take credit for adjusting them like he did on D/T
Indeed. Not everyone worships Images and Words so i'd hope it was better than that.
Myung getting sole lyric credit this time around rather than Myung/Petrucci co-credit. I wonder if that means it’s all his own work this time.
Surrender to Reason is Myung not Myung/Petrucci
Yes but it’s long been hinted at that, whilst Myung has always been given a sole lyric credit, he actually brings in something akin to poetry and the band (probably Petrucci) have to do some work to turn them into usable song lyrics. On Distance Over Time, for the first time, Petrucci was given a co-write credit on Myung’s two songs and this seemed to be them finally acknowledging that he has some input on Myung penned songs.
On this album though they’re back to giving Myung sole credit so I’m just vaguely interested if that is because Myung brought in a fully completed set of lyrics or whether Petrucci just decided he didn’t need to take credit for adjusting them like he did on D/T
JP song writing credit funny story. I heard JP’s wife was playing a riff and John “stole it”. LOL! That riff turned out to be The Mirror.
Indeed. Not everyone worships Images and Words so i'd hope it was better than that.
Indeed. Not everyone worships Images and Words so i'd hope it was better than that.
Doesn’t matter if you like it or not, the fact of it’s awesomeness is carved in stone. You missed out I guess.
I like Arch era FW but Alder took them to an entire new level. It’s weird that Arch could have ended up in DT, imagine that? Would have been AWFUL and DT would not have had a long career. Now I’m picturing Ray Alder in DT and JLB in FW! :lol
That would've been an interesting scenario. Ray is great on Parallels. I think it was there where he really "found" his voice. Such great tone.
But James was really such a driving force on those early DT albums. He was the difference maker. And I still remember thinking that he was the weak link during the I&W shows. Not that HE was weak, but that ANY vocalist would've been considered so.
Having said that, I think I'm the only one here that doesn't give a rat's ass who writes the lyrics. There is literally no connection between whether I like a particular lyric and who wrote it (including Portnoy).
It was like Rush, Maiden and Journey all got together, had a party and out came I&W.
I'm not a lyrics person in general. I feel like one day I will start to care about lyrics and it will be like getting into DT all over again.
Outside of The Astonishing and Scenes From a Memory I'm not sure I even know what a single song is about from DT.
But it's not exclusive to them, I just hardly listen to lyrics. I can sing the words to a sing sometimes and still have no clue what it's about haha.
Labrie is the best lyricist for me. At Wit's End, Disappear, and Medicate are amazing.
Labrie is the best lyricist for me. At Wit's End, Disappear, and Medicate are amazing.
Labrie is the best lyricist for me. At Wit's End, Disappear, and Medicate are amazing.
Disappear's lyrics are simultaneously amazing and impossible to listen to (without being incredible sad). Fairly sure they're my favorite lyrics ever by anyone.
Labrie is the best lyricist for me. At Wit's End, Disappear, and Medicate are amazing.
As I mentioned before, I just care about the final product. But the only songs from James I don't care much about is Anna Lee and Prophets of War. Every other song he wrote have great lyrics (I would add Bling Faith and Vacant to your list).
Labrie is the best lyricist for me. At Wit's End, Disappear, and Medicate are amazing.
Disappear's lyrics are simultaneously amazing and impossible to listen to (without being incredible sad). Fairly sure they're my favorite lyrics ever by anyone.
Labrie is the best lyricist for me. At Wit's End, Disappear, and Medicate are amazing.
As I mentioned before, I just care about the final product. But the only songs from James I don't care much about is Anna Lee and Prophets of War. Every other song he wrote have great lyrics (I would add Bling Faith and Vacant to your list).
I wonder what kind of song "Bling Faith" would be... :lol:biggrin:
Anna Lee deals with a heavy topic and has some incredible lyrics… Hauntingly beautiful song and lyrics…
I still feel like I&W is still their best album, lyrically.
I still feel like I&W is still their best album, lyrically.
Wouldn't argue that.
SameI still feel like I&W is still their best album, lyrically.
Wouldn't argue that.
WELL NOW I HAVE TO DON'T I??!?!
Honestly though, the lyrics are fine but outside of bits here and there, I can't connect with much. I strongly prefer Awake lyrically, even parts of 6DOIT (not the song).
I still feel like I&W is still their best album, lyrically.
Wouldn't argue that.
WELL NOW I HAVE TO DON'T I??!?!
Honestly though, the lyrics are fine but outside of bits here and there, I can't connect with much. I strongly prefer Awake lyrically, even parts of 6DOIT (not the song).
Images and Words does not contain the song "Voices" and therefore cannot be their best album. :P
http://www.pasifagresif.com/2021/09/dream-theater-roportaj/
In this interview which is Turkish (my main language), James said,
1- He defines new album like I&W-SDOIT and ToT mix.
2- He wrote every vocal melodies for this album alone and think one of his strong melodies he ever did.
3- He said DoT vocals are kinda clean and still but new album vocals are agressive and strong like ToT-SDOIT vocals.
4- The closer epic has every element that DT has.
http://www.pasifagresif.com/2021/09/dream-theater-roportaj/
In this interview which is Turkish (my main language), James said,
1- He defines new album like I&W-SDOIT and ToT mix.
2- He wrote every vocal melodies for this album alone and think one of his strong melodies he ever did.
3- He said DoT vocals are kinda clean and still but new album vocals are agressive and strong like ToT-SDOIT vocals.
4- The closer epic has every element that DT has.
Oh great...now a pagefull of
(https://i.imgflip.com/5m3wh1.jpg)
As a melody guy, it actually piques my curiosity to hear James' input in that regard.
As a melody guy, it actually piques my curiosity to hear James' input in that regard.
Not trying to doubt you SeRoX, but can you explain where in the interview he says that? Because when I run the article through Google translate and read the parts where JL is talking about vocal melodies, I get the impression he is speaking about writing all the vocal melodies for his new solo album, not the new DT album. This is how it's translated into English:2- He wrote every vocal melodies for this album alone and think one of his strong melodies he ever did.The 2nd point is really interesting. So they got rid of that lyricist rule and allowed their singer to finally create the melodies. No wonder why The Alien has some great melodies.
So JL speaks about how he would sit down with JP and possibly JR to do the vocal melodies on DT albums, but then he shifts to speaking about writing vocal melodies with Matt for his solo albums. Then he says on *his* new album - not the new DT album - that he wrote all the vocal melodies.
Let me say this from the beginning. We usually sit down with John and write the tunes, sometimes Jordan joins us. We wrote the melodies in my first three solo albums with Matt Guillory. On my new album, I wrote all the vocal melodies.
As a melody guy, it actually piques my curiosity to hear James' input in that regard.
What's a melody, guy?
As a melody guy, it actually piques my curiosity to hear James' input in that regard.
What's a melody, guy?
A melody is the musical contour of notes within a given piece of music, usually the lead voice/instrumental that provides the focal point for a piece's musical content. ;)
-Marc.
http://www.pasifagresif.com/2021/09/dream-theater-roportaj/
In this interview which is Turkish (my main language), James said,
1- He defines new album like I&W-SDOIT and ToT mix.
2- He wrote every vocal melodies for this album alone and think one of his strong melodies he ever did.
3- He said DoT vocals are kinda clean and still but new album vocals are agressive and strong like ToT-SDOIT vocals.
4- The closer epic has every element that DT has.
As a melody guy, it actually piques my curiosity to hear James' input in that regard.
What's a melody guy?
As a melody guy, it actually piques my curiosity to hear James' input in that regard.
What's a melody guy?
Haha; I mean to say, "I am a guy that likes melodies in the songs I listen to".
I see we have a WTFareyoutalkingabout guy.
The only show worse than that one was the same exact show but with Jim Belushi.
The only show worse than that one was the same exact show but with Jim Belushi.
The song crushes man!!! :metal :metal :metal
The only show worse than that one was the same exact show but with Jim Belushi.
The song crushes man!!! :metal :metal :metal
Not as much as this
You are 100% correct!! LOVE it! :metal :metal :metal
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7fXym_Y7_QY
http://www.pasifagresif.com/2021/09/dream-theater-roportaj/
In this interview which is Turkish (my main language), James said,
1- He defines new album like I&W-SDOIT and ToT mix.
2- He wrote every vocal melodies for this album alone and think one of his strong melodies he ever did.
3- He said DoT vocals are kinda clean and still but new album vocals are agressive and strong like ToT-SDOIT vocals.
4- The closer epic has every element that DT has.
To clarify, in this interview, James is referencing his own solo album when he says that he wrote all the vocal melodies and when talking about the new DT album, he says that the vocal performance is strong. He does not define the new album as being a mix of I&W, SDOIT and ToT, but he does say that the album, in terms of quality, is up there with them.
The article is rather clear, I find this post a bit misleading.
.That said, maybe I'm wrong and maybe there's a mistranslation and it is abundantly clear in the original Turkish that JL says that he wrote all the vocal melodies for the new DT album. If it is, feel free to correct me SeRoX.
Interviewers have heard AVFTTOTW in its entirety. I'm really happy with how positive their comments are, but I'm really looking for a simple end result. As I said before, I just want people to like it. That's enough. Any more good vibes are a bonus. My song learning is tedious due to so many stickings and footings that require the weak side to "lead" in order to get the sound I was looking for. The polyrhythms are not "normal" linear ones. They are stacked limbs. That's an entirely different animal requiring being able to process how they related to the base time so they stay in that time. Back to work... I will book more private slots ASAP. There aren't enough hours in a day!
I think JM has the most talent for writing lyrics
Time for reviews and another single!
The only show worse than that one was the same exact show but with Jim Belushi.
So. ..next week?'Time for reviews and another single!
Track-by-track reviews are still 2-3 weeks away 😑 Instead the second single will be released much earlier
So. ..next week?'Time for reviews and another single!
Track-by-track reviews are still 2-3 weeks away 😑 Instead the second single will be released much earlier
Curiously, I don't know what I even want from a new DT album. My fave period was Scenes - Octavarium.
But A Dramatic Turn onwards were just...The Latest Dream Theater album to me...
What actually is it about the 1999-2005 period I love so much ?
it's an interesting question.
...I guess I just put "great songs" over anything else. I'm the weirdo that loves I Walk Beside You and This Is The Life. I haven't really enjoyed a mega-song since The Count.
But i'm optimistic about A View...
Curiously, I don't know what I even want from a new DT album. My fave period was Scenes - Octavarium..
But A Dramatic Turn onwards were just...The Latest Dream Theater album to me...
What actually is it about the 1999-2005 period I love so much ?
it's an interesting question.
...I guess I just put "great songs" over anything else. I'm the weirdo that loves I Walk Beside You and This Is The Life. I haven't really enjoyed a mega-song since The Count.
But i'm optimistic about A View...
Curiously, I don't know what I even want from a new DT album. My fave period was Scenes - Octavarium.
But A Dramatic Turn onwards were just...The Latest Dream Theater album to me...
What actually is it about the 1999-2005 period I love so much ?
it's an interesting question.
...I guess I just put "great songs" over anything else. I'm the weirdo that loves I Walk Beside You and This Is The Life. I haven't really enjoyed a mega-song since The Count.
But i'm optimistic about A View...
My guess (and that's really all it is) is that DT15 will be a continuation of DOT. The band hasn't divulged much about the song writing process for the album and hasn't released anything to make me think it'll be a different thing, the way the Astonishing was after coming from DT.
The Alien is a nice energetic tune. It would fit in well with the DOT, which I think is a top 5 DT album. To that extent I am excited. My only complaint with the new single was around the guitar parts, which sounded a little too familiar and maybe even like they've been recycled.
My guess (and that's really all it is) is that DT15 will be a continuation of DOT. The band hasn't divulged much about the song writing process for the album and hasn't released anything to make me think it'll be a different thing, the way the Astonishing was after coming from DT.
The Alien is a nice energetic tune. It would fit in well with the DOT, which I think is a top 5 DT album. To that extent I am excited. My only complaint with the new single was around the guitar parts, which sounded a little too familiar and maybe even like they've been recycled.
It has that JP solo thing he has been doing, and I call that the Under A Glass Moon slide. He does this on the end solo to Space-Dye Vest on Breaking The Fourth Wall...
Here's what I'm talking about...
https://youtu.be/e_R5kJjYpQU?t=386 - Space-Dye Vest live
https://youtu.be/nh41N6UXJ7w?t=446 - Lost Not Forgotten
https://youtu.be/V462IsOV3js?t=363 - The Alien
Curiously, I don't know what I even want from a new DT album. My fave period was Scenes - Octavarium.
But A Dramatic Turn onwards were just...The Latest Dream Theater album to me...
What actually is it about the 1999-2005 period I love so much ?
it's an interesting question.
...I guess I just put "great songs" over anything else. I'm the weirdo that loves I Walk Beside You and This Is The Life. I haven't really enjoyed a mega-song since The Count.
But i'm optimistic about A View...
Realize he will have put out 3 albums (solo, LTE3 and DT15) in a very short amount of time, but I do hope that the new record will not just be a copy of older material, as much as I love that.
@Darkshade " the last two Portnoy albums had gotten a bit formulaic "
100%. I call them the treading water albums. Systematic sounded like the flip-side of Octavarium - the album had almost the same structure... And Black Clouds, whilst better imo, was more of the same.
I’ll say it again, it sounds like DREAM THEATER, yes. They did not reinvent themselves. It’s a well written, well performed and well produced album. Very enjoyable, I absolutely love it. Is it there best album? …..Maybe? Yes? No? The term “best” is way to subjective and we all have our personal preferences. It’s definitely up there in my faves for sure.
I’ll say it again, it sounds like DREAM THEATER, yes. They did not reinvent themselves. It’s a well written, well performed and well produced album. Very enjoyable, I absolutely love it. Is it there best album? …..Maybe? Yes? No? The term “best” is way to subjective and we all have our personal preferences. It’s definitely up there in my faves for sure.
Would you say they repeated themselves or are just rehashing old material on DT15?
I’ll say it again, it sounds like DREAM THEATER, yes. They did not reinvent themselves. It’s a well written, well performed and well produced album. Very enjoyable, I absolutely love it. Is it there best album? …..Maybe? Yes? No? The term “best” is way to subjective and we all have our personal preferences. It’s definitely up there in my faves for sure.
Would you say they repeated themselves or are just rehashing old material on DT15?
I thinks it’s fresh and inspired. There’s definitely a different/new feel happening while still keeping it DT. Rehashing old material? I will say a hard NO to that. With all this said I’m sure there will be varied opinions of course. For me being a fan from day one and not loving all of their albums in their entirety (SC, FII, The Astonishing) I think the album is going to please most. I’m confident of that. The boys delivered for sure.
The stuff in recent albums is lazy? No. They are just more ficused on writing a good song, instead of letting their musical virtuosity carry the song. At Wit's End's arrangement is lazy? S2N? Barstool Warrior? And don't even get me started on the highly complex The Astonishing album. To call the recent arrangements lazy is an insult to the band.
I’ll say it again, it sounds like DREAM THEATER, yes. They did not reinvent themselves. It’s a well written, well performed and well produced album. Very enjoyable, I absolutely love it. Is it there best album? …..Maybe? Yes? No? The term “best” is way to subjective and we all have our personal preferences. It’s definitely up there in my faves for sure.
Would you say they repeated themselves or are just rehashing old material on DT15?
I thinks it’s fresh and inspired. There’s definitely a different/new feel happening while still keeping it DT. Rehashing old material? I will say a hard NO to that. With all this said I’m sure there will be varied opinions of course. For me being a fan from day one and not loving all of their albums in their entirety (SC, FII, The Astonishing) I think the album is going to please most. I’m confident of that. The boys delivered for sure.
Sounds good! I am a huge fan of DOT, which wasn't a reinvention by any means but also had some of their best songs (Barstool Warrior, Pale Blue Dot). Maybe part of my anxiety about the album is that they've apparently had so little to say about the songwriting process this time :lol
The stuff in recent albums is lazy? No. They are just more ficused on writing a good song, instead of letting their musical virtuosity carry the song. At Wit's End's arrangement is lazy? S2N? Barstool Warrior? And don't even get me started on the highly complex The Astonishing album. To call the recent arrangements lazy is an insult to the band.
Yeah, they totally need Portnoy's great arranging skills that gave us masterpieces such as the albums by Adrenaline Mob and Sons of Apollo :lol
The stuff in recent albums is lazy? No. They are just more ficused on writing a good song, instead of letting their musical virtuosity carry the song. At Wit's End's arrangement is lazy? S2N? Barstool Warrior? And don't even get me started on the highly complex The Astonishing album. To call the recent arrangements lazy is an insult to the band.
I didn't specify any songs, and you happened to list the better songs from the Mangini era.
The Enemy Inside is my go-to song for this argument. JP's riffing is elementary, and the main melody played by JP and JR, feels like an unfinished part, same with some of the diminished chord part with its changing time signatures, just feels like it was pasted together and not given time to marinate.
@Darkshade " the last two Portnoy albums had gotten a bit formulaic "
100%. I call them the treading water albums. Systematic sounded like the flip-side of Octavarium - the album had almost the same structure... And Black Clouds, whilst better imo, was more of the same.
I agree with this sentiment as well. I reckon, once Portnoy and Petrucci took over the production aspect of things, they treated it a bit like a production line of a factory, the Toyota methodology of writing music I'd say which had started to kill the magic of their music for me. "We have to put new music out, so we can tour." mentality, but I reckon one thing that people often miss is that Portnoy started regressing as a drummer, in terms of creativity post-FII, IMO. As evidenced by Lifting Shadows, he gave so much shit to JLB, overlooking the fact that he was going backwards as well. (Hence, the "I'm all about the feel." statements.) Drumming is a matter of taste, but, I personally do not want to hear the same fills over and over again to the point that I am able to correctly guess what is coming. LTE3 solidified, for me, the fact that Portnoy would not be able to keep up with the DT of today. The line-up change was for the better.
Quote from: TheBarstoolWarriorRealize he will have put out 3 albums (solo, LTE3 and DT15) in a very short amount of time, but I do hope that the new record will not just be a copy of older material, as much as I love that.
Yes I did wonder if he would spread himself a bit thin - creatively speaking.
2019 - Distance Over Time
2020 - Terminal Velocity & LTE 3
2021 - A View From The Top OF The World
That's 4 albums in 2 years. Some things are bound to get repeated.
[...]
The stuff in recent albums is lazy? No. They are just more ficused on writing a good song, instead of letting their musical virtuosity carry the song. At Wit's End's arrangement is lazy? S2N? Barstool Warrior? And don't even get me started on the highly complex The Astonishing album. To call the recent arrangements lazy is an insult to the band.
Yeah, they totally need Portnoy's great arranging skills that gave us masterpieces such as the albums by Adrenaline Mob and Sons of Apollo :lol
LTE3 solidified, for me, the fact that Portnoy would not be able to keep up with the DT of today.
The stuff in recent albums is lazy? No. They are just more ficused on writing a good song, instead of letting their musical virtuosity carry the song. At Wit's End's arrangement is lazy? S2N? Barstool Warrior? And don't even get me started on the highly complex The Astonishing album. To call the recent arrangements lazy is an insult to the band.
I didn't specify any songs, and you happened to list the better songs from the Mangini era.
The Enemy Inside is my go-to song for this argument. JP's riffing is elementary, and the main melody played by JP and JR, feels like an unfinished part, same with some of the diminished chord part with its changing time signatures, just feels like it was pasted together and not given time to marinate.
LTE3 solidified, for me, the fact that Portnoy would not be able to keep up with the DT of today.
Sure, Portnoy regressed, but how could he not keep with the DT of today, which is a simplier and less inspired version of the DT of the past? It's not like they're asking Mangini to play anything special. You can like the change of direction toward a more concise songwriting and a less metal music, but if they had asked Portnoy to follow the guidelines, he would have been perfectly fine.
The good thing is that he wouldn't have to as that song is quite boring. Given his abilities and what he's done and played, is it really beyond his ability to learn that stuff if he really wanted to and put the time to do it?LTE3 solidified, for me, the fact that Portnoy would not be able to keep up with the DT of today.
Sure, Portnoy regressed, but how could he not keep with the DT of today, which is a simplier and less inspired version of the DT of the past? It's not like they're asking Mangini to play anything special. You can like the change of direction toward a more concise songwriting and a less metal music, but if they had asked Portnoy to follow the guidelines, he would have been perfectly fine.
Good luck getting portnoy to play the alien.
Good luck getting portnoy to play the alien.
LTE3 solidified, for me, the fact that Portnoy would not be able to keep up with the DT of today.
Sure, Portnoy regressed, but how could he not keep with the DT of today, which is a simplier and less inspired version of the DT of the past? It's not like they're asking Mangini to play anything special. You can like the change of direction toward a more concise songwriting and a less metal music, but if they had asked Portnoy to follow the guidelines, he would have been perfectly fine.
The good thing is that he wouldn't have to as that song is quite boring. Given his abilities and what he's done and played, is it really beyond his ability to learn that stuff if he really wanted to and put the time to do it?
As a drummer, all I can do is roll my eyes when I read claims that the drumming in 2010s DT is simpler. There is a reason why you barely see any good drum covers of these new songs in Youtube.I was talking about the music in general, not the drumming. There is no question that Mangini is a better drummer than Portnoy on a technical level. But I totally understand why a drummer would not have any desire to take the time to learn such uninteresting parts.
Or maybe they just can not get their heads around how in the verse of the Alien that "sounds" simple, the snare and hi-hat is playing 4/4, but the kick drum is playing with the guitar in 17/16.If they "can't get their around" this, they suck at drums. It requires strong limb independancy to play, but it's nothing complicated to understand. That is one of Mangini's main tricks with DT: a bass drum pattern that follows guitar and bass with more straightforward snare and cymbals on top (with accents on two or three). Djent bands use that all the time, in more complicated ways.
Or maybe they just can not get their heads around how in the verse of the Alien that "sounds" simple, the snare and hi-hat is playing 4/4, but the kick drum is playing with the guitar in 17/16.If they "can't get their around" this, they suck at drums. It requires strong limb independancy to play, but it's nothing complicated to understand. That is one of Mangini's main tricks with DT: a double-bass pattern that follows guitar and bass with more straightforward snare and cymbals on top (with accents on two or three). Djent bands use that all the time, in more complicated ways.
he did not even double bass that sectionEnglish is not my native langage. I was thinking "bass drum pattern".
The good thing is that he wouldn't have to as that song is quite boring. Given his abilities and what he's done and played, is it really beyond his ability to learn that stuff if he really wanted to and put the time to do it?LTE3 solidified, for me, the fact that Portnoy would not be able to keep up with the DT of today.
Sure, Portnoy regressed, but how could he not keep with the DT of today, which is a simplier and less inspired version of the DT of the past? It's not like they're asking Mangini to play anything special. You can like the change of direction toward a more concise songwriting and a less metal music, but if they had asked Portnoy to follow the guidelines, he would have been perfectly fine.
Good luck getting portnoy to play the alien.
The stuff in recent albums is lazy? No. They are just more ficused on writing a good song, instead of letting their musical virtuosity carry the song. At Wit's End's arrangement is lazy? S2N? Barstool Warrior? And don't even get me started on the highly complex The Astonishing album. To call the recent arrangements lazy is an insult to the band.
I didn't specify any songs, and you happened to list the better songs from the Mangini era.
The Enemy Inside is my go-to song for this argument. JP's riffing is elementary, and the main melody played by JP and JR, feels like an unfinished part, same with some of the diminished chord part with its changing time signatures, just feels like it was pasted together and not given time to marinate.
Nah - you could easily make this argument for many other songs such as “The Root of all Evil”, which, while I understand was a part of the AA saga thing, was just basically a rehash of riffs we’d already heard in the Glass Prison and This Dying Soul, and is pretty second rate to either.
In fact, it got to the point by that stage where I felt the whole AA saga was getting a bit stale and wished it was just kind of done. And to this day, I have very little interest in listening to it as a whole suite. TDS, TROAE and Repentance could literally have their time cut in half (repentance could be cut to 2 minutes, it just doesn’t interest me). And I think this is where I feel the writing was not so much lazy, but just stale. The Mangini-era has been a complete breath of fresh air to me in comparison to this time period…
Or maybe they just can not get their heads around how in the verse of the Alien that "sounds" simple, the snare and hi-hat is playing 4/4, but the kick drum is playing along with the guitar in 17/16.
P.S.
This guy who studied under Mangini broke down the drums of the Alien excellently.
https://youtu.be/uC3tiQqyICQ
The stuff in recent albums is lazy? No. They are just more ficused on writing a good song, instead of letting their musical virtuosity carry the song. At Wit's End's arrangement is lazy? S2N? Barstool Warrior? And don't even get me started on the highly complex The Astonishing album. To call the recent arrangements lazy is an insult to the band.
I didn't specify any songs, and you happened to list the better songs from the Mangini era.
The Enemy Inside is my go-to song for this argument. JP's riffing is elementary, and the main melody played by JP and JR, feels like an unfinished part, same with some of the diminished chord part with its changing time signatures, just feels like it was pasted together and not given time to marinate.
Well, it is not like they never did something like that before. Endless Sacrifice is one example. It's structure is basically a rehash of Peruvian Skies except they hyper-extended the solos.
It depends of the musician. Some artists release multiple albums in a year, without repeating ideas (Zappa, King Gizzard, Omar Rodríguez-López, Toby Driver; the usual names, but with one thing in common, they're experimental musicians)
Yeah, they totally need Portnoy's great arranging skills that gave us masterpieces such as the albums by Adrenaline Mob and Sons of Apollo :lol
@Darkshade " the last two Portnoy albums had gotten a bit formulaic "
100%. I call them the treading water albums. Systematic sounded like the flip-side of Octavarium - the album had almost the same structure... And Black Clouds, whilst better imo, was more of the same.
I agree with this sentiment as well. I reckon, once Portnoy and Petrucci took over the production aspect of things, they treated it a bit like a production line of a factory, the Toyota methodology of writing music I'd say which had started to kill the magic of their music for me. "We have to put new music out, so we can tour." mentality, but I reckon one thing that people often miss is that Portnoy started regressing as a drummer, in terms of creativity post-FII, IMO. As evidenced by Lifting Shadows, he gave so much shit to JLB, overlooking the fact that he was going backwards as well. (Hence, the "I'm all about the feel." statements.) Drumming is a matter of taste, but, I personally do not want to hear the same fills over and over again to the point that I am able to correctly guess what is coming. LTE3 solidified, for me, the fact that Portnoy would not be able to keep up with the DT of today. The line-up change was for the better.
Seeing that Mangini is so proficient and how he plays for the time signature and overthinks every measure etc etc...well, given that his instructional DVD (called The Grid, which I highly recommend btw) is mainly about the very subject of improvisation, I'd guess he is very much able to improvise
And how people were saying his live outro to Finally Free was lacking...
I kinda wonder if Mangini even knows how to Improvise...
You hear that story often that the best orchestras in the world can only read music. If you ask them to make something up they're clueless.
Not saying he CANNOT improvise. But i wonder how much time he's spent over the years being as mathematical and ambidextrous and technical as he is..
versus just putting on a CD and jamming along..
That's what i'm getting at. His 'jamming" is still " how can I play this measure of 4/4 in 10 different ways " and not " oh this groove feels great ".
Seeing that Mangini is so proficient and how he plays for the time signature and overthinks every measure etc etc...
And how people were saying his live outro to Finally Free was lacking...
I kinda wonder if Mangini even knows how to Improvise...
You hear that story often that the best orchestras in the world can only read music. If you ask them to make something up they're clueless.
Not saying he CANNOT improvise. But i wonder how much time he's spent over the years being as mathematical and ambidextrous and technical as he is..
versus just putting on a CD and jamming along..
Seeing that Mangini is so proficient and how he plays for the time signature and overthinks every measure etc etc...
I kinda wonder if Mangini even knows how to Improvise...
Seeing that Mangini is so proficient and how he plays for the time signature and overthinks every measure etc etc...
I kinda wonder if Mangini even knows how to Improvise...
As someone who has actually jammed with Mike Mangini, I find this idea completely silly.
As someone who has actually jammed with Mike Mangini, I find this idea completely silly.
The stuff in recent albums is lazy? No. They are just more ficused on writing a good song, instead of letting their musical virtuosity carry the song. At Wit's End's arrangement is lazy? S2N? Barstool Warrior? And don't even get me started on the highly complex The Astonishing album. To call the recent arrangements lazy is an insult to the band.
I didn't specify any songs, and you happened to list the better songs from the Mangini era.
The Enemy Inside is my go-to song for this argument. JP's riffing is elementary, and the main melody played by JP and JR, feels like an unfinished part, same with some of the diminished chord part with its changing time signatures, just feels like it was pasted together and not given time to marinate.
Nah - you could easily make this argument for many other songs such as “The Root of all Evil”, which, while I understand was a part of the AA saga thing, was just basically a rehash of riffs we’d already heard in the Glass Prison and This Dying Soul, and is pretty second rate to either.
In fact, it got to the point by that stage where I felt the whole AA saga was getting a bit stale and wished it was just kind of done. And to this day, I have very little interest in listening to it as a whole suite. TDS, TROAE and Repentance could literally have their time cut in half (repentance could be cut to 2 minutes, it just doesn’t interest me). And I think this is where I feel the writing was not so much lazy, but just stale. The Mangini-era has been a complete breath of fresh air to me in comparison to this time period…
I think that's a bad example, because as you stated, TROAE is part of the Twelve Step Saga, and reprises riffs and melodies from previous songs. You must hate long epics that do the same thing, too.
Another example of either laziness or lack of ideas, is on LTE3, if it isn't call backs to the first two LTE albums, many of the sounds seem to be ripped straight off the Systematic Chaos album. The last tune on LTE3 is a bit different sounding, but the main theme sounds unfinished.
Well, about Mangini (and Dream Theater) improvising - from 07:45 on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tZ-go2CXqo
Yes, I think he can do that! :hat
The question of whether he can effectively improvise is valid and interesting. But from what (relatively) little I've seen, I don't think Mangini is lacking in that department. To give just one example, the band were VERY happy with his abilities during the improv/jam portion of the auditions.* And given that that is how they "write" a lot of their material, and that they were specifically looking for someone who could fit that mold, I don't think that's an issue.
Curiously, I don't know what I even want from a new DT album. My fave period was Scenes - Octavarium.
But A Dramatic Turn onwards were just...The Latest Dream Theater album to me...
What actually is it about the 1999-2005 period I love so much ?
it's an interesting question.
...I guess I just put "great songs" over anything else. I'm the weirdo that loves I Walk Beside You and This Is The Life. I haven't really enjoyed a mega-song since The Count.
But i'm optimistic about A View...
Probably because the 1999-2006 period was when DT were at the top of their game, physically, mentally, musically. They had grown to be arguably the biggest underground band in the world. They peaked during Octavarium and Score and they knew it. Overall, it's really 92-06 that is the golden era of DT, they just didn't have any real disruptions from 99-06, and really until 2010. The last couple of albums with Portnoy are definitely a band unsure of where to go next, despite increasing the metal element in their music being the dominant element in their music, which is ongoing, the albums started to sound a bit formulaic. Then after MP's departure it seems the band has been content with just rehashing old material and rearranging things, and I even think some stuff on recent albums is just lazy (by DT standards) especially in song construction. Say what you want about Portnoy, while his drums in many ways defined the classic DT sound, he is also a master arranger, especially when surrounded by talented musicians like DT, Transatlantic or NMB. It's an issue I have with modern DT, because that element is missing, and when taking JP's solo albums into account, JP is not the best composer out there. He comes up with many great ideas, but putting them together without MP it is obvious why DT cannot sound like they did in the 90s or 2000s. MP had the vision that only the best bands have.
Well, about Mangini (and Dream Theater) improvising - from 07:45 on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tZ-go2CXqo
Yes, I think he can do that! :hat
I was just going to say...wasn't a group jam a key part of the audition process, which he aced? I don't think there's any real doubt about his ability to improvise with the band.
I think the key complaint (which admittedly I don't understand given the band is Dream Theater and their material has been highly technical by nature) has been that his playing is a little too mechanical at times. I don't share that complaint at all and think he fits into the band like a glove. I guess some fans love highly technical guitar, bass and keys, but when it comes to drums they want less technicality and more simplicity :huh:
Curiously, I don't know what I even want from a new DT album. My fave period was Scenes - Octavarium.
But A Dramatic Turn onwards were just...The Latest Dream Theater album to me...
What actually is it about the 1999-2005 period I love so much ?
it's an interesting question.
...I guess I just put "great songs" over anything else. I'm the weirdo that loves I Walk Beside You and This Is The Life. I haven't really enjoyed a mega-song since The Count.
But i'm optimistic about A View...
Probably because the 1999-2006 period was when DT were at the top of their game, physically, mentally, musically. They had grown to be arguably the biggest underground band in the world. They peaked during Octavarium and Score and they knew it. Overall, it's really 92-06 that is the golden era of DT, they just didn't have any real disruptions from 99-06, and really until 2010. The last couple of albums with Portnoy are definitely a band unsure of where to go next, despite increasing the metal element in their music being the dominant element in their music, which is ongoing, the albums started to sound a bit formulaic. Then after MP's departure it seems the band has been content with just rehashing old material and rearranging things, and I even think some stuff on recent albums is just lazy (by DT standards) especially in song construction. Say what you want about Portnoy, while his drums in many ways defined the classic DT sound, he is also a master arranger, especially when surrounded by talented musicians like DT, Transatlantic or NMB. It's an issue I have with modern DT, because that element is missing, and when taking JP's solo albums into account, JP is not the best composer out there. He comes up with many great ideas, but putting them together without MP it is obvious why DT cannot sound like they did in the 90s or 2000s. MP had the vision that only the best bands have.
A master arranger? Have you actually been in the studio to see what it is that he actually contributes?
Seems to me that, by your logic, all the great songs by DT/TA/NM are due to Portnoy’s masterful arrangements but the lacklustre material he’s put out in other bands is not his fault as the talent is not there. You give him so much of the credit for the good stuff but none of the bad stuff is his fault? You can’t have it both ways.
The simple fact is that MP is a drummer and his stuff with talented players sounds good because he’s playing with talented players and writers. His stuff with less talented players sounds bad because they’re not great songwriters. He is not the reason the good bands sound good or the lesser bands don’t, he’s just the drummer in good and not so good projects.
DT have not fallen apart without his masterful arranging skills, they’ve moved on and barely missed a beat (pardon the pun, if that is a pun) putting out high quality album after high quality album. Are they the absolute pinnacle albums of their career? I’d say no but none of the MP albums after SFAM are either imo. That stretch from SDOIT to BC&SL are my least favourite DT albums and things picked up when Mangini joined. Likewise, if Neal Morse switched drummers tomorrow, it would likely have very little impact on how his albums will sound. The Spock’s Beard albums sound just fine with a different drummer.
What’s abundantly clear to me on these BTS making of album videos is just how little he contributes to the writing of those records. The others all turn up with loads of demos and ideas and he turns up with zero.
Curiously, I don't know what I even want from a new DT album. My fave period was Scenes - Octavarium.
But A Dramatic Turn onwards were just...The Latest Dream Theater album to me...
What actually is it about the 1999-2005 period I love so much ?
it's an interesting question.
...I guess I just put "great songs" over anything else. I'm the weirdo that loves I Walk Beside You and This Is The Life. I haven't really enjoyed a mega-song since The Count.
But i'm optimistic about A View...
Probably because the 1999-2006 period was when DT were at the top of their game, physically, mentally, musically. They had grown to be arguably the biggest underground band in the world. They peaked during Octavarium and Score and they knew it. Overall, it's really 92-06 that is the golden era of DT, they just didn't have any real disruptions from 99-06, and really until 2010. The last couple of albums with Portnoy are definitely a band unsure of where to go next, despite increasing the metal element in their music being the dominant element in their music, which is ongoing, the albums started to sound a bit formulaic. Then after MP's departure it seems the band has been content with just rehashing old material and rearranging things, and I even think some stuff on recent albums is just lazy (by DT standards) especially in song construction. Say what you want about Portnoy, while his drums in many ways defined the classic DT sound, he is also a master arranger, especially when surrounded by talented musicians like DT, Transatlantic or NMB. It's an issue I have with modern DT, because that element is missing, and when taking JP's solo albums into account, JP is not the best composer out there. He comes up with many great ideas, but putting them together without MP it is obvious why DT cannot sound like they did in the 90s or 2000s. MP had the vision that only the best bands have.
A master arranger? Have you actually been in the studio to see what it is that he actually contributes?
Seems to me that, by your logic, all the great songs by DT/TA/NM are due to Portnoy’s masterful arrangements but the lacklustre material he’s put out in other bands is not his fault as the talent is not there. You give him so much of the credit for the good stuff but none of the bad stuff is his fault? You can’t have it both ways.
The simple fact is that MP is a drummer and his stuff with talented players sounds good because he’s playing with talented players and writers. His stuff with less talented players sounds bad because they’re not great songwriters. He is not the reason the good bands sound good or the lesser bands don’t, he’s just the drummer in good and not so good projects.
DT have not fallen apart without his masterful arranging skills, they’ve moved on and barely missed a beat (pardon the pun, if that is a pun) putting out high quality album after high quality album. Are they the absolute pinnacle albums of their career? I’d say no but none of the MP albums after SFAM are either imo. That stretch from SDOIT to BC&SL are my least favourite DT albums and things picked up when Mangini joined. Likewise, if Neal Morse switched drummers tomorrow, it would likely have very little impact on how his albums will sound. The Spock’s Beard albums sound just fine with a different drummer.
What’s abundantly clear to me on these BTS making of album videos is just how little he contributes to the writing of those records. The others all turn up with loads of demos and ideas and he turns up with zero.
Judging by the making of (DT, NM, NMB etc), he contributes in the same way as Lars Ulrich contributes to Metallica.
In my book this is not composing and it is not arranging. He acts as a producer (and Lars too). It's certainly a very valuable contribution, but Martin Birch doesn't have writing credits with Iron Maiden, even though he helped in the production of the records.
Obviously I'm not talking about contributing as a lyricist.
Being a producer also means discussing and considering arrangements of the songs to make them sound better. The record label brought in Desmond Child as producer to arrange You or Me, into the more accessible You Not Me.
Based off the Behind The Scenes we got, Mike Portnoy was in charge of arranging, vocal production, and direction. And MP is good these things. As his other projects indicate.
Based off the Behind The Scenes we got, Mike Portnoy was in charge of arranging, vocal production, and direction.
Based off the Behind The Scenes we got, Mike Portnoy was in charge of arranging, vocal production, and direction.
Wait, WHAT? That is absolutely false. He was very active in those areas. But he was not, by any stretch, "in charge" of them.
The notion of modern DT being "simpler and less inspired" feels a tad absurd to me. The arrangements of the last 10 years imo feel far more dense, deliberate and dynamic than most of the albums prior, to me. Is ADToE or DT12 simpler than Octavarium or Train of Thought? Despite an abundance of shredding in the latter, I don't really think so.
The notion of modern DT being "simpler and less inspired" feels a tad absurd to me. The arrangements of the last 10 years imo feel far more dense, deliberate and dynamic than most of the albums prior, to me. Is ADToE or DT12 simpler than Octavarium or Train of Thought? Despite an abundance of shredding in the latter, I don't really think so.
You know what? You're right: DT have been producing mediocre and uninspired music for 20 years now. The discussion is closed.
The notion of modern DT being "simpler and less inspired" feels a tad absurd to me. The arrangements of the last 10 years imo feel far more dense, deliberate and dynamic than most of the albums prior, to me. Is ADToE or DT12 simpler than Octavarium or Train of Thought? Despite an abundance of shredding in the latter, I don't really think so.
You know what? You're right: DT have been producing mediocre and uninspired music for 20 years now. The discussion is closed.
Can you NOT use the tiny font? There's no reason for it in a thread that is obviously going to contain spoilers.
Is anyone able to share if there will be another single this month?
Is anyone able to share if there will be another single this month?
Next Friday hopefully, likely Invisible Monster.
That one and Awaken the Master were kind of sleepers for me. But earlier today, I was REALLY enjoying both.
That one and Awaken the Master were kind of sleepers for me. But earlier today, I was REALLY enjoying both.
Releasing Transcending Time would answer a lot of questions about the album having such extreme melody.
That one and Awaken the Master were kind of sleepers for me. But earlier today, I was REALLY enjoying both.
Releasing Transcending Time would answer a lot of questions about the album having such extreme melody.
Do you think there are any 'radio friendly' tracks on the album? I am thinking of Paralyzed, Along for the Ride, Build Me Up Break Me Down, etc.
That one and Awaken the Master were kind of sleepers for me. But earlier today, I was REALLY enjoying both.
Releasing Transcending Time would answer a lot of questions about the album having such extreme melody.
Do you think there are any 'radio friendly' tracks on the album? I am thinking of Paralyzed, Along for the Ride, Build Me Up Break Me Down, etc.
Yes, Transcending Time in a HUGE way! Borderline arena rock chorus but not cheesy at all. Amazing verses and overall arrangement. This song could fit on AWAKE, DT, or somewhere on Disc 2 of SDOIT. Awesome!!!!
Also, that wasn't really what I was talking about there. If we're just talking matters of complexity, that can be measured to some degree and I'd say that TA or ADToE are, on balance, more intricately composed than anything from the 90s as well.I understood your first post. I just think you're completely wrong, but I don't have the time nor the will to show you why, so let's just say DT sucks and always has since you're adamant that ADToE is more intricately composed than I&W and SFAM, and that will be it.
[...]
I'm not knocking Mangini, he's clearly a spectacular drummer and maybe he is technically more proficient than Portnoy (I'm not a drummer; I wouldn't know how to measure that) but I know personally, I don't care for the style (particularly his use of the bass drum(s)) as much. Whether Portnoy can "keep up" or not isn't really the point; the point is to make music that others can enjoy, repeatedly, over time, isn't it? And for me, I love that "epic" style, that tension and resolution, and often that DOES include knowing - anticipating - exactly what is coming next. As you said, it's all taste, but taste only goes so far. I struggle with this idea of commenting on someone else's ability based largely on whether I get what I'm hoping to hear from a particular piece of music or not.
That's what i'm getting at. His 'jamming" is still " how can I play this measure of 4/4 in 10 different ways " and not " oh this groove feels great ".
Like his version of just laying back and enjoying the groove *IS* to think of how many ways he can play the same time signature.
That's what i'm getting at. His 'jamming" is still " how can I play this measure of 4/4 in 10 different ways " and not " oh this groove feels great ".
Not really. You still have to make the improvisation work (And feel). Saw the Mars Volta many moons ago and they were "improvising". Sounded like shit, no coherency, just a bunch of noise. King Crimson does a lot of improvs and they feel fine most of them anyway. I think Mangini would fit in a band like KC as well. All the players are very well versed in music theory and they make it work flawlessly most of the times.
I did watch The Grid DVD. I'm no drummer but it was fascinating how he improvises.
I'm not sure I quite understand the implication of some in this thread that feeling a groove & playing complex rhythms are mutually exclusive. There are plenty of songs that are pretty complex rhythmically but groove pretty hard once you wrap your head around what's happening (my go-to example is TesseracT's Exile). I think MM does a great job of this in The Alien (especially in the 2nd verse & outro, as explained in the Shawn Crowder video), & as far as I'm aware it's one of the most complex drum parts he's done with the band.to date? Yes, definitely among them. We'll have to see what the rest of the album will hold for us though, this is only song 1 remember. I'm expecting they will up the ante throughout the album and that everything will culminate in the title track.We'll see, I guess we shall see. (G minor suspended resolution)
Is anyone able to share if there will be another single this month?
Next Friday hopefully, likely Invisible Monster.
Also, that wasn't really what I was talking about there. If we're just talking matters of complexity, that can be measured to some degree and I'd say that TA or ADToE are, on balance, more intricately composed than anything from the 90s as well.I understood your first post. I just think you're completely wrong, but I don't have the time nor the will to show you why, so let's just say DT sucks and always has since you're adamant that ADToE is more intricately composed than I&W and SFAM, and that will be it.
It's also difficult for me to get that you understood my first post when you replied with such a dismissive comment that missed the point of what I was saying, which is why I might seem persistent here.I understood your first post, your second and your third. I was being ironic. I never had any intention to further discuss the subject, so I answered with irony. "it feels like you really don't like it when people stick up for the music they enjoy"? Give me a break. Erwinrafael have been respectful in the last pages? He has been the opposite of that. And your very first act is taking two of my words out of context, calling my stance "absurd", and going on a rant which has nothing to do with my initial point. I think your attitude is manipulative and contemptuous. I kept it cool by answering with irony.
So what am I being disrespectful about? Trying to defend Mangini and DT for all these comments of being lazy, uninspired, uninteresting, or being called that they suck?
Everything I post in this forum, I can say to anybody's face because I stand by my position and how I say my position. Can you say to Dream Theater member's face all the comments you post about them? I don't think so.
Also, that wasn't really what I was talking about there. If we're just talking matters of complexity, that can be measured to some degree and I'd say that TA or ADToE are, on balance, more intricately composed than anything from the 90s as well.I understood your first post. I just think you're completely wrong, but I don't have the time nor the will to show you why, so let's just say DT sucks and always has since you're adamant that ADToE is more intricately composed than I&W and SFAM, and that will be it.
PS: I'm very well aware I'll get banned for this, but I'll stand my ground in front of all these lies and bullshit.Well, that doesn't seem like the smartest way to do things.
I understood your first post, your second and your third. I was being ironic. I never had any intention to further discuss the subject, so I answered with irony. "it feels like you really don't like it when people stick up for the music they enjoy"? Give me a break. Erwinrafael have been respectful in the last pages? He has been the opposite of that. And your very first act is taking two of my words out of context, calling my stance "absurd", and going on a rant which has nothing to do with my initial point. I think your attitude is manipulative and contemptuous. I kept it cool by answering with irony.
And "simplier" is an "inflammatory term" now? I should have shut it, got it.
It is quite possible to argue your point vigorously, even passionately, without belittling other people or being an asshole.
Also, while I'm not a mod, I feel like it'd be prudent for me to refer to rule 12:
"Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated. Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it is constructive and does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc."
Speaking of which, I didn't call that an inflammatory term, I was referring to things like "less inspired", "so let's just say DT sucks and always has" and "But I totally understand why a drummer would not have any desire to take the time to learn such uninteresting parts." which came across as needlessly dismissive and disrespectful. Again, I'm sorry if that wasn't clear from what I wrote.You wrote:" In that vein, I apologise for calling your judgement absurd, even if I still think the terms you used were needlessly inflammatory."
Also, while I'm not a mod, I feel like it'd be prudent for me to refer to rule 12:
"Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated. Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it is constructive and does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc."
And where, exactly, did I insult or bash any band members? People have trashed Portnoy several times in this thread. Why aren't you calling that rule on THEM? He's a former band member.
You're just a bunch of hypocrites. You're doing exactly what you're criticize others for.
Now ban me so you can all go back to sucking each other dicks.
Now ban me
And where, exactly, did I insult or bash any band members? People have trashed Portnoy several times in this thread. Why aren't you calling that rule on THEM? He's a former band member.
You're just a bunch of hypocrites. You're doing exactly what you're criticize others for.
Now ban me so you can all go back to sucking each other dicks.
You wrote:" In that vein, I apologise for calling your judgement absurd, even if I still think the terms you used were needlessly inflammatory."
What you call absurd was the statement "simpler and less inspired". I'm not in your fucking mind and I can't guess your talking about something else entirely. You don't get to play nice guy after fucking with people. You're not sorry. You're manipulative.
Yeah Enigma, you kept it respectful. Just let it go now, it was clear that the Trout was just here to create a provocation, he/she is not worth the time or energy.
For what it's worth, Enigma, I don't think you were in the wrong at all, but it's really cool that you're still being civil beyond the point where I would've definitely lost my cool. Sorry all that happened. :hug:
and go on we will: Who is excited for next Friday? :D
A master arranger? Have you actually been in the studio to see what it is that he actually contributes?
Seems to me that, by your logic, all the great songs by DT/TA/NM are due to Portnoy’s masterful arrangements but the lacklustre material he’s put out in other bands is not his fault as the talent is not there. You give him so much of the credit for the good stuff but none of the bad stuff is his fault? You can’t have it both ways.
The simple fact is that MP is a drummer and his stuff with talented players sounds good because he’s playing with talented players and writers. His stuff with less talented players sounds bad because they’re not great songwriters. He is not the reason the good bands sound good or the lesser bands don’t, he’s just the drummer in good and not so good projects.
DT have not fallen apart without his masterful arranging skills, they’ve moved on and barely missed a beat (pardon the pun, if that is a pun) putting out high quality album after high quality album. Are they the absolute pinnacle albums of their career? I’d say no but none of the MP albums after SFAM are either imo. That stretch from SDOIT to BC&SL are my least favourite DT albums and things picked up when Mangini joined. Likewise, if Neal Morse switched drummers tomorrow, it would likely have very little impact on how his albums will sound. The Spock’s Beard albums sound just fine with a different drummer.
What’s abundantly clear to me on these BTS making of album videos is just how little he contributes to the writing of those records. The others all turn up with loads of demos and ideas and he turns up with zero.
No doubt Portnoy plateaued during the Six Degrees/Train of Thought era, but to call Portnoy's playing 'leagues' below the likes of Bruford, Peart, and Mangini is a little ignorant. What MP lacks in technical prowess, he makes up for with creativity, but MP in his peak was one of the best rock drummers in the world. What make Bruford and Peart less mechanical sounding like Mangini is their sense of groove and of course jazz influence, which I hear none from MM. Portnoy has that in him a little (as do Petrucci/Myung/Rudess)
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Now ban me
Okay...
Well, he sure does know how to groove and improvise when tuning his kit.
https://youtu.be/JocZI3WKjaI
Does anyone who's heard DT15 think Invisible Monster is a top 3 track on the album? :biggrin:
Well, he sure does know how to groove and improvise when tuning his kit.
https://youtu.be/JocZI3WKjaI
Even as a non-drummer. I love the kind of groove that MM creates here. There's a deliberacy and purpose in a lot of the tension and release there that I don't usually see in these sorts of jams. The little pauses, to kick straight back into the beat feel so off-kilter but ear-catching at the same time. All the while, keeping the momentum flowing with all of those ghost notes. The "groove and feel" are absolutely there. This jam is another one that comes off well to my ears (and even has that jazz quality to his playing):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6y4ipRjDME
No doubt Portnoy plateaued during the Six Degrees/Train of Thought era, but to call Portnoy's playing 'leagues' below the likes of Bruford, Peart, and Mangini is a little ignorant. What MP lacks in technical prowess, he makes up for with creativity, but MP in his peak was one of the best rock drummers in the world. What make Bruford and Peart less mechanical sounding like Mangini is their sense of groove and of course jazz influence, which I hear none from MM. Portnoy has that in him a little (as do Petrucci/Myung/Rudess)
Well, he sure does know how to groove and improvise when tuning his kit.
https://youtu.be/JocZI3WKjaI
No doubt Portnoy plateaued during the Six Degrees/Train of Thought era, but to call Portnoy's playing 'leagues' below the likes of Bruford, Peart, and Mangini is a little ignorant. What MP lacks in technical prowess, he makes up for with creativity, but MP in his peak was one of the best rock drummers in the world. What make Bruford and Peart less mechanical sounding like Mangini is their sense of groove and of course jazz influence, which I hear none from MM. Portnoy has that in him a little (as do Petrucci/Myung/Rudess)
Well, he sure does know how to groove and improvise when tuning his kit.
https://youtu.be/JocZI3WKjaI
I don't want to be argumentative, but while it's creative, and certainly technically proficient, I'm not getting "groove" from that. I'm sorry, I'm just not. Maybe it's in our definitions of "groove". That also evidences a point I made above; I don't care for his use of the bass drum. It's just too busy for my taste.
None of this is to say Mangini sucks, none of this is to imply anyone else is better, just saying it's not for me.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Now ban me
Okay...
We really need another single to discuss :lol
To those who have already listened to the album (Bosk, Glasser, etc.), do you know who wrote which song lyrics? I'm hoping we get at least one from MM as last time.
I am only able to hear the songs to this point. I wish I could see the credits myself.
I am only able to hear the songs to this point. I wish I could see the credits myself.
What's your opinion about James' vocals?
Back to the arranging thing, calling him a master arranger seems odd to me, too. I am sure he makes great suggestions, but DT's arranging has been just fine without him (better in fact in the 10's than it was in the 00's), and Neal Morse's arranging was just fine back in the Spock's days when Portnoy was not around.
The Alien is by James, Transcending Time is by John, and Awaken The Master is by JM. (this is what I could gather by freezing the frames on the latest YT clip btw)
anytime, and btw, forgot to mention: John wrote the lyrics to A View as well, as he mentioned (somewhat inadvertantly) during a recent interviewThe Alien is by James, Transcending Time is by John, and Awaken The Master is by JM. (this is what I could gather by freezing the frames on the latest YT clip btw)
thank you Max. I'm especially curious to hear Awaken the Master.
I so do hope the epic is Illumation Theory-like. Illumination Theory has - to me - the most variety musically and the classic Embracing the Circle is one of their best pieces this far. Overwhelming, emotionally.
A master arranger? Have you actually been in the studio to see what it is that he actually contributes?
Seems to me that, by your logic, all the great songs by DT/TA/NM are due to Portnoy’s masterful arrangements but the lacklustre material he’s put out in other bands is not his fault as the talent is not there. You give him so much of the credit for the good stuff but none of the bad stuff is his fault? You can’t have it both ways.
The simple fact is that MP is a drummer and his stuff with talented players sounds good because he’s playing with talented players and writers. His stuff with less talented players sounds bad because they’re not great songwriters. He is not the reason the good bands sound good or the lesser bands don’t, he’s just the drummer in good and not so good projects.
DT have not fallen apart without his masterful arranging skills, they’ve moved on and barely missed a beat (pardon the pun, if that is a pun) putting out high quality album after high quality album. Are they the absolute pinnacle albums of their career? I’d say no but none of the MP albums after SFAM are either imo. That stretch from SDOIT to BC&SL are my least favourite DT albums and things picked up when Mangini joined. Likewise, if Neal Morse switched drummers tomorrow, it would likely have very little impact on how his albums will sound. The Spock’s Beard albums sound just fine with a different drummer.
What’s abundantly clear to me on these BTS making of album videos is just how little he contributes to the writing of those records. The others all turn up with loads of demos and ideas and he turns up with zero.
I agree with pretty much all of this. As many hats as he tries to wear now, drumming is still the thing Portnoy does best. And there is no shame in that considering he is still a great drummer (despite his admitted lack of care in improving anymore). But he's probably lucky that all of the bands he's been in don't have the Fleetwood Mac rule where the person who had the original idea for the song gets all of the songwriting credit, otherwise he might be able to count his total songwriting credits on one hand (or none :lol). Aside from him supposedly coming up with the riff for A Rite of Passage, which is basically the Misunderstood riff slightly tweaked (IIRC), I cannot think of a single song where I've seen him or the band talk about how it started from an idea he had or melody he wrote. Maybe there is an example or two of which I am unaware, which I am sure someone will correct me if that is the case :P. but I think y'all get my point.
No doubt Portnoy plateaued during the Six Degrees/Train of Thought era, but to call Portnoy's playing 'leagues' below the likes of Bruford, Peart, and Mangini is a little ignorant. What MP lacks in technical prowess, he makes up for with creativity, but MP in his peak was one of the best rock drummers in the world. What make Bruford and Peart less mechanical sounding like Mangini is their sense of groove and of course jazz influence, which I hear none from MM. Portnoy has that in him a little (as do Petrucci/Myung/Rudess)
A master arranger? Have you actually been in the studio to see what it is that he actually contributes?
Seems to me that, by your logic, all the great songs by DT/TA/NM are due to Portnoy’s masterful arrangements but the lacklustre material he’s put out in other bands is not his fault as the talent is not there. You give him so much of the credit for the good stuff but none of the bad stuff is his fault? You can’t have it both ways.
The simple fact is that MP is a drummer and his stuff with talented players sounds good because he’s playing with talented players and writers. His stuff with less talented players sounds bad because they’re not great songwriters. He is not the reason the good bands sound good or the lesser bands don’t, he’s just the drummer in good and not so good projects.
DT have not fallen apart without his masterful arranging skills, they’ve moved on and barely missed a beat (pardon the pun, if that is a pun) putting out high quality album after high quality album. Are they the absolute pinnacle albums of their career? I’d say no but none of the MP albums after SFAM are either imo. That stretch from SDOIT to BC&SL are my least favourite DT albums and things picked up when Mangini joined. Likewise, if Neal Morse switched drummers tomorrow, it would likely have very little impact on how his albums will sound. The Spock’s Beard albums sound just fine with a different drummer.
What’s abundantly clear to me on these BTS making of album videos is just how little he contributes to the writing of those records. The others all turn up with loads of demos and ideas and he turns up with zero.
I agree with pretty much all of this. As many hats as he tries to wear now, drumming is still the thing Portnoy does best. And there is no shame in that considering he is still a great drummer (despite his admitted lack of care in improving anymore). But he's probably lucky that all of the bands he's been in don't have the Fleetwood Mac rule where the person who had the original idea for the song gets all of the songwriting credit, otherwise he might be able to count his total songwriting credits on one hand (or none :lol). Aside from him supposedly coming up with the riff for A Rite of Passage, which is basically the Misunderstood riff slightly tweaked (IIRC), I cannot think of a single song where I've seen him or the band talk about how it started from an idea he had or melody he wrote. Maybe there is an example or two of which I am unaware, which I am sure someone will correct me if that is the case :P. but I think y'all get my point.
Exactly. If MP could actually write, and being the control freak he brags that he is, I'm pretty sure he would have been releasing solo albums all this time. But he hasn't. That's not an insult to him, but giving him credit for the things that JP, JR, and JMX have done is certainly an insult to them. Even MM has contributed guitar riffs at this point!
Back to the arranging thing, calling him a master arranger seems odd to me, too. I am sure he makes great suggestions, but DT's arranging has been just fine without him (better in fact in the 10's than it was in the 00's), and Neal Morse's arranging was just fine back in the Spock's days when Portnoy was not around.
I always kind of took that arranger title as his way, and the apologists way of saying, "See I/he contribute(s) just as much as John and Jordan!" I agree with what you said that he probably makes some good suggestions. I also think its asinine people are so quick to give him credit as the grand arranger, as if John and Jordan are just sitting around with all these riffs and no idea what to do with them.
If we had to break it down to who contributed the most during those years, at least musically, it would probably be John and Jordan at the top. Mike in the mid range with James and John Myung just below him and a times on the same level. In fact, I wonder if that was some of the source of tension with Mike and James and John Myung.
A master arranger? Have you actually been in the studio to see what it is that he actually contributes?
Seems to me that, by your logic, all the great songs by DT/TA/NM are due to Portnoy’s masterful arrangements but the lacklustre material he’s put out in other bands is not his fault as the talent is not there. You give him so much of the credit for the good stuff but none of the bad stuff is his fault? You can’t have it both ways.
The simple fact is that MP is a drummer and his stuff with talented players sounds good because he’s playing with talented players and writers. His stuff with less talented players sounds bad because they’re not great songwriters. He is not the reason the good bands sound good or the lesser bands don’t, he’s just the drummer in good and not so good projects.
DT have not fallen apart without his masterful arranging skills, they’ve moved on and barely missed a beat (pardon the pun, if that is a pun) putting out high quality album after high quality album. Are they the absolute pinnacle albums of their career? I’d say no but none of the MP albums after SFAM are either imo. That stretch from SDOIT to BC&SL are my least favourite DT albums and things picked up when Mangini joined. Likewise, if Neal Morse switched drummers tomorrow, it would likely have very little impact on how his albums will sound. The Spock’s Beard albums sound just fine with a different drummer.
What’s abundantly clear to me on these BTS making of album videos is just how little he contributes to the writing of those records. The others all turn up with loads of demos and ideas and he turns up with zero.
I agree with pretty much all of this. As many hats as he tries to wear now, drumming is still the thing Portnoy does best. And there is no shame in that considering he is still a great drummer (despite his admitted lack of care in improving anymore). But he's probably lucky that all of the bands he's been in don't have the Fleetwood Mac rule where the person who had the original idea for the song gets all of the songwriting credit, otherwise he might be able to count his total songwriting credits on one hand (or none :lol). Aside from him supposedly coming up with the riff for A Rite of Passage, which is basically the Misunderstood riff slightly tweaked (IIRC), I cannot think of a single song where I've seen him or the band talk about how it started from an idea he had or melody he wrote. Maybe there is an example or two of which I am unaware, which I am sure someone will correct me if that is the case :P. but I think y'all get my point.
Exactly. If MP could actually write, and being the control freak he brags that he is, I'm pretty sure he would have been releasing solo albums all this time. But he hasn't. That's not an insult to him, but giving him credit for the things that JP, JR, and JMX have done is certainly an insult to them. Even MM has contributed guitar riffs at this point!
No doubt Portnoy plateaued during the Six Degrees/Train of Thought era, but to call Portnoy's playing 'leagues' below the likes of Bruford, Peart, and Mangini is a little ignorant. What MP lacks in technical prowess, he makes up for with creativity, but MP in his peak was one of the best rock drummers in the world. What make Bruford and Peart less mechanical sounding like Mangini is their sense of groove and of course jazz influence, which I hear none from MM. Portnoy has that in him a little (as do Petrucci/Myung/Rudess)
I personally disagree with calling him one of the best Rock drummers in the world, but at the same time, I don't like the genre and I have no idea which drummers count as Rock drummers and which ones don't
I won't deny his strong influence in the Prog scene, though (Blake Richardson is one of my favourite drummers of all time, and he's influenced by MP).
As far as I can hear, both Bruford and Peart (especially Bruford) had a better navigation through more complex rhythms, with more precision (compare Portnoy playing Larks Tongues and Tom Sawyer, there's many things he skips on those songs).
As for the Jazz claim, Portnoy improvisation and swing aren't Jazz-y (LTE jams, Liquid Trio Experiment's Jazz Odyssey). As for MM, you can hear a lot of Jazz in this video shared some messages ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6y4ipRjDME. While it's not, idk, '60s-ish swing, it's not away at all from the likes of Chad Wackerman, for example.
Back to the arranging thing, calling him a master arranger seems odd to me, too. I am sure he makes great suggestions, but DT's arranging has been just fine without him (better in fact in the 10's than it was in the 00's), and Neal Morse's arranging was just fine back in the Spock's days when Portnoy was not around.
I always kind of took that arranger title as his way, and the apologists way of saying, "See I/he contribute(s) just as much as John and Jordan!" I agree with what you said that he probably makes some good suggestions. I also think its asinine people are so quick to give him credit as the grand arranger, as if John and Jordan are just sitting around with all these riffs and no idea what to do with them.
If we had to break it down to who contributed the most during those years, at least musically, it would probably be John and Jordan at the top. Mike in the mid range with James and John Myung just below him and a times on the same level. In fact, I wonder if that was some of the source of tension with Mike and James and John Myung.
Exactly. If MP could actually write, and being the control freak he brags that he is, I'm pretty sure he would have been releasing solo albums all this time. But he hasn't. That's not an insult to him, but giving him credit for the things that JP, JR, and JMX have done is certainly an insult to them. Even MM has contributed guitar riffs at this point!
MP for the DT was, in addition to a great drummer, a driving force, a leader, lyricist, producer. A position worthy of respect, but it doesn't seem to be enough. He has to be made the great songwriter of the band. If not possible, in the master arranger.
The problem is that there is a portion of the fans who likes the MP so much that they want him to be a sort of Steven Wilson, Neal Morse, Gildenlöw. He isn't.
Mike released this video of him playing a beat taking off from an unreleased song in the album. What song is it?
https://youtu.be/OPRdo4MCDQ8
Mike released this video of him playing a beat taking off from an unreleased song in the album. What song is it?
https://youtu.be/OPRdo4MCDQ8
No doubt Portnoy plateaued during the Six Degrees/Train of Thought era, but to call Portnoy's playing 'leagues' below the likes of Bruford, Peart, and Mangini is a little ignorant. What MP lacks in technical prowess, he makes up for with creativity, but MP in his peak was one of the best rock drummers in the world. What make Bruford and Peart less mechanical sounding like Mangini is their sense of groove and of course jazz influence, which I hear none from MM. Portnoy has that in him a little (as do Petrucci/Myung/Rudess)
I personally disagree with calling him one of the best Rock drummers in the world, but at the same time, I don't like the genre and I have no idea which drummers count as Rock drummers and which ones don't
I won't deny his strong influence in the Prog scene, though (Blake Richardson is one of my favourite drummers of all time, and he's influenced by MP).
As far as I can hear, both Bruford and Peart (especially Bruford) had a better navigation through more complex rhythms, with more precision (compare Portnoy playing Larks Tongues and Tom Sawyer, there's many things he skips on those songs).
As for the Jazz claim, Portnoy improvisation and swing aren't Jazz-y (LTE jams, Liquid Trio Experiment's Jazz Odyssey). As for MM, you can hear a lot of Jazz in this video shared some messages ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6y4ipRjDME. While it's not, idk, '60s-ish swing, it's not away at all from the likes of Chad Wackerman, for example.
Having jazzy influences doesn't necessarily mean it has to sound like 60s post bop. Growing up, the DT boys were listening to stuff like Alan Holdsworth, Return to Forever, and lots of other 70s and 80s jazz fusion music. That style and influence is most obvious in IaW, Awake, and FII, and slowly faded away after SDoIT, but the whole extended solo trade off DT does is a big American Jazz tradition, too. Of course, Rudess played with Steve Morse, Jan Hammer, and Tony Williams, 3 big names in jazz and fusion.
Mike released this video of him playing a beat taking off from an unreleased song in the album. What song is it?
https://youtu.be/OPRdo4MCDQ8
Just as a side note, I asked Mike on the FB post he made about this video if he used this kit set up for the whole album, and he answered "YES"!
I'm loving the ' no ballads ' talk.. I'm not big on rock ballads as a whole. They have to be really good songs and not just 'we need some balance on this album'.
For two albums in a row, actually, DT played parts that sounded like something they would have played during the Falling Into Infinity era: S2N and the middle solos in The Alien.
For two albums in a row, actually, DT played parts that sounded like something they would have played during the Falling Into Infinity era: S2N and the middle solos in The Alien.
FII? Now that's a hot sports opinion.
Not really hearing it at all especially the S2N and Alien reference.
Exactly. MP for the DT was, in addition to a great drummer, a driving force, a leader, lyricist, producer. A position worthy of respect, but it doesn't seem to be enough. He has to be made the great songwriter of the band. If not possible, in the master arranger.
The problem is that there is a portion of the fans who likes the MP so much that they want him to be a sort of Steven Wilson, Neal Morse, Gildenlöw. He isn't.
Here's what I know..
MP was the most exciting drummer to enter my musical universe since Neal Peart. Be backboned what would out of nowhere become my favorite band, one that I obsessed over like no other. Mike struck the perfect balance between ability and accessibility.
We are 11 years after MP left DT and MM took his place.
And STILL people can't get over the fact that DT have moved forward.
I guess we will be talking about MP vs MM for decades to come.
Exactly. MP for the DT was, in addition to a great drummer, a driving force, a leader, lyricist, producer. A position worthy of respect, but it doesn't seem to be enough. He has to be made the great songwriter of the band. If not possible, in the master arranger.
The problem is that there is a portion of the fans who likes the MP so much that they want him to be a sort of Steven Wilson, Neal Morse, Gildenlöw. He isn't.
So what if they do? Is anyone hurt by that? In any event, not everyone is like that, but to generalize across anyone who likes Mike P's playing is no more valid or valuable than generalizing across Mike Mangini's "no groove" idea. It's useless. You either like him (either one) or you don't and I can't understand why that's not enough. I can't understand why those that prefer Portnoy over Mangini - for any reasons: groove, arranging, writing, because it's Sunday - can't just be "their opinion" and left alone. And likewise to Mangini. There are plenty of people here that gush over Mangini, and that's fine (he's a very talented drummer, anyone can see that) but as soon as someone gushes over Portnoy, as I sometimes do, they're labeled "apologists" and the very personal, subjective reasons why they gush are picked apart like facts on a trigonometry test when at the end of the day it really just boils down to "what do I like". And I can't speak for anyone else, but "what I like" is not science. I can see patterns in it, but honestly, I hear something/someone and I either like it or I don't. It's really that simple.
So what if they do? Is anyone hurt by that? In any event, not everyone is like that, but to generalize across anyone who likes Mike P's playing is no more valid or valuable than generalizing across Mike Mangini's "no groove" idea. It's useless. You either like him (either one) or you don't and I can't understand why that's not enough. I can't understand why those that prefer Portnoy over Mangini - for any reasons: groove, arranging, writing, because it's Sunday - can't just be "their opinion" and left alone. And likewise to Mangini. There are plenty of people here that gush over Mangini, and that's fine (he's a very talented drummer, anyone can see that) but as soon as someone gushes over Portnoy, as I sometimes do, they're labeled "apologists" and the very personal, subjective reasons why they gush are picked apart like facts on a trigonometry test when at the end of the day it really just boils down to "what do I like". And I can't speak for anyone else, but "what I like" is not science. I can see patterns in it, but honestly, I hear something/someone and I either like it or I don't. It's really that simple.
The implicit problem imo is that a lot of people seem to (at risk of possible exaggeration) catastrophise about how DT have lost their internal driving force in terms of this kind of singular genius who carried the weight of all these different aspects with terms like "master arranger", which sort of goes beyond an opinion into an assumption of internal band dynamics (going from the subjective into the objective) in a way that supports their own bias.
Exactly. MP for the DT was, in addition to a great drummer, a driving force, a leader, lyricist, producer. A position worthy of respect, but it doesn't seem to be enough. He has to be made the great songwriter of the band. If not possible, in the master arranger.
The problem is that there is a portion of the fans who likes the MP so much that they want him to be a sort of Steven Wilson, Neal Morse, Gildenlöw. He isn't.
So what if they do? Is anyone hurt by that? In any event, not everyone is like that, but to generalize across anyone who likes Mike P's playing is no more valid or valuable than generalizing across Mike Mangini's "no groove" idea. It's useless. You either like him (either one) or you don't and I can't understand why that's not enough. I can't understand why those that prefer Portnoy over Mangini - for any reasons: groove, arranging, writing, because it's Sunday - can't just be "their opinion" and left alone. And likewise to Mangini. There are plenty of people here that gush over Mangini, and that's fine (he's a very talented drummer, anyone can see that) but as soon as someone gushes over Portnoy, as I sometimes do, they're labeled "apologists" and the very personal, subjective reasons why they gush are picked apart like facts on a trigonometry test when at the end of the day it really just boils down to "what do I like". And I can't speak for anyone else, but "what I like" is not science. I can see patterns in it, but honestly, I hear something/someone and I either like it or I don't. It's really that simple.
Here's what I know..
MP was the most exciting drummer to enter my musical universe since Neal Peart. Be backboned what would out of nowhere become my favorite band, one that I obsessed over like no other. Mike struck the perfect balance between ability and accessibility.
I think this has been discussed before, but weren’t we just recently talking about how this lineup has now existed for a longer period of time than the SFAM lineup? That just blows my mind.
Portnoy would in fact NOT be able to play a lot of Mangini-era DT without stripping the parts down to fit what he can do now. It's not really a question. MM is a far more technical drummer and obviously that is showing up in his playing. It's like expecting Clapton to be able to play John Petrucci's guitar parts; he's a hell of a player, but this is just a more technical style.
Has nothing to do with enjoying the music less or more, but it's just a big difference between the two. I personally enjoy both and think the lineup change was for the best because I love the more technical drums in DT and I think MP's projects are great.
I'll echo what another poster said: there is a reason why you are seeing very few, if any, exact covers of MM's songs on YouTube. A lot of drummers are playing the songs but just simplifying parts here and there.
I noticed on Black Clouds and Silver Linings, Portnoy was becoming stale in his drumming. You could hear and predict his fills, and even their solo sections were becoming predictable with the MP fills included.
Mangini, actually composes drum parts and uses his technical skills to come up with some interesting drumming. I enjoy his drumming a lot...
Mike Portnoy has his style and sticks to it, sort of like Steve Harris.
I'm not saying Portnoy is a prog composer like Neal Morse or Steven Wilson, and I'll be the first to admit he probably can't write a song by himself. He needs others to bring in ideas, then he has something to work with.
I'm also not saying JP and JR can't write music without MP, but I think there's a certain "IT" factor that comes into play when they collaborate with MP.
JP and JR's composing skills don't impress me much outside of the DT albums with MP, though they almost came close with ADTOE, there are some surprises in there, and even a couple of 'jazzy' moments, ala old school DT. I can't say I listen to their solo albums anywhere near as much as DT. 99/100 times I'll listen to Neal Morse's worst prog album over JP or JR's best work without MP.
For two albums in a row, actually, DT played parts that sounded like something they would have played during the Falling Into Infinity era: S2N and the middle solos in The Alien.
FII? Now that's a hot sports opinion.
Not really hearing it at all especially the S2N and Alien reference.
At the risk of exaggeration? :lol
I'm not saying Portnoy is a prog composer like Neal Morse or Steven Wilson, and I'll be the first to admit he probably can't write a song by himself. He needs others to bring in ideas, then he has something to work with.
I'm also not saying JP and JR can't write music without MP, but I think there's a certain "IT" factor that comes into play when they collaborate with MP.
JP and JR's composing skills don't impress me much outside of the DT albums with MP, though they almost came close with ADTOE, there are some surprises in there, and even a couple of 'jazzy' moments, ala old school DT. I can't say I listen to their solo albums anywhere near as much as DT. 99/100 times I'll listen to Neal Morse's worst prog album over JP or JR's best work without MP.
Okay, but more technical does not automatically mean better. There is no doubt in my mind that Portnoy could take any song DT has done since his departure and adjust it to his style and it would still sound good.
Yeah mangini makes the parts technical because he can.
Not trying to change any minds. Just dropping in to say MP deserves all the accolades. I deposit this as evidence that he can do Bruford just 🙂
https://youtu.be/i7VQ7DHOzbM
Portnoy would in fact NOT be able to play a lot of Mangini-era DT without stripping the parts down to fit what he can do now. It's not really a question. MM is a far more technical drummer and obviously that is showing up in his playing. It's like expecting Clapton to be able to play John Petrucci's guitar parts; he's a hell of a player, but this is just a more technical style.
Has nothing to do with enjoying the music less or more, but it's just a big difference between the two. I personally enjoy both and think the lineup change was for the best because I love the more technical drums in DT and I think MP's projects are great.
I'll echo what another poster said: there is a reason why you are seeing very few, if any, exact covers of MM's songs on YouTube. A lot of drummers are playing the songs but just simplifying parts here and there.
Okay, but more technical does not automatically mean better. There is no doubt in my mind that Portnoy could take any song DT has done since his departure and adjust it to his style and it would still sound good.
I dunno, MP is pretty darned musical on the guitar
I have no doubt that he could put out an album where he wrote and played on all of the instruments.
For two albums in a row, actually, DT played parts that sounded like something they would have played during the Falling Into Infinity era: S2N and the middle solos in The Alien.
FII? Now that's a hot sports opinion.
Not really hearing it at all especially the S2N and Alien reference.
Try listening to Lines in the Sand and Just Let Me Breathe, then follow that with S2N and JP's middle guitar solo in The Alien.
For two albums in a row, actually, DT played parts that sounded like something they would have played during the Falling Into Infinity era: S2N and the middle solos in The Alien.
FII? Now that's a hot sports opinion.
Not really hearing it at all especially the S2N and Alien reference.
Try listening to Lines in the Sand and Just Let Me Breathe, then follow that with S2N and JP's middle guitar solo in The Alien.
I dunno, MP is pretty darned musical on the guitar
Is he?
I have no doubt that he could put out an album where he wrote and played on all of the instruments.
There's a difference between 'playing an instrument' (the thing that people do when they copy others) and, you know, playing an instrument.
I would like to see evidence of MP being pretty darned musical on the guitar as well. I am not aware of any sources of MP rockin the guitar, except maybe nightmare cinema (but I wouldnt call that pretty darn musical).I dunno, MP is pretty darned musical on the guitar
Is he?
I have no doubt that he could put out an album where he wrote and played on all of the instruments.
There's a difference between 'playing an instrument' (the thing that people do when they copy others) and, you know, playing an instrument.
which IIRC, is a first for any DT album to not feature any full on ballads
I think this has been discussed before, but weren’t we just recently talking about how this lineup has now existed for a longer period of time than the SFAM lineup? That just blows my mind.
For JP's solo album MP said that JP pushed him in certain areas out of his comfort zone and I can't remember the song but I do remember thinking, hey that's an MM riff. 16th notes on the ride I think but some of the players can correct me.
I would like to see evidence of MP being pretty darned musical on the guitar as well. I am not aware of any sources of MP rockin the guitar, except maybe nightmare cinema (but I wouldnt call that pretty darn musical).I dunno, MP is pretty darned musical on the guitar
Is he?
I have no doubt that he could put out an album where he wrote and played on all of the instruments.
I'm not saying it's great but he IS capable.
He also has an anti-Trump song he posted during the election cycle. I'll let you all find that one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvIJIRCypGE
There's a difference between 'playing an instrument' (the thing that people do when they copy others) and, you know, playing an instrument.
That was more in line with nightmare cinema than world class progressive metal, but it’s a start so I’ll give you that :)I would like to see evidence of MP being pretty darned musical on the guitar as well. I am not aware of any sources of MP rockin the guitar, except maybe nightmare cinema (but I wouldnt call that pretty darn musical).I dunno, MP is pretty darned musical on the guitar
Is he?
I have no doubt that he could put out an album where he wrote and played on all of the instruments.
I'm not saying it's great but he IS capable.
He also has an anti-Trump song he posted during the election cycle. I'll let you all find that one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvIJIRCypGE
There's a difference between 'playing an instrument' (the thing that people do when they copy others) and, you know, playing an instrument.
That was more in line with nightmare cinema than world class progressive metal, but it’s a start so I’ll give you that :)I would like to see evidence of MP being pretty darned musical on the guitar as well. I am not aware of any sources of MP rockin the guitar, except maybe nightmare cinema (but I wouldnt call that pretty darn musical).I dunno, MP is pretty darned musical on the guitar
Is he?
I have no doubt that he could put out an album where he wrote and played on all of the instruments.
I'm not saying it's great but he IS capable.
He also has an anti-Trump song he posted during the election cycle. I'll let you all find that one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvIJIRCypGE
There's a difference between 'playing an instrument' (the thing that people do when they copy others) and, you know, playing an instrument.
Whatever. Everything I’ve seen him in lately (interviews, etc) he’s been super cool.
By the way, this thread is about DT15.
Bottom line. DT15 is outstanding and I hope it brings them new fans as well as living up to the hopes of their existing fan base. :metal :hefdaddy
Exactly. MP for the DT was, in addition to a great drummer, a driving force, a leader, lyricist, producer. A position worthy of respect, but it doesn't seem to be enough. He has to be made the great songwriter of the band. If not possible, in the master arranger.
The problem is that there is a portion of the fans who likes the MP so much that they want him to be a sort of Steven Wilson, Neal Morse, Gildenlöw. He isn't.
So what if they do? Is anyone hurt by that? In any event, not everyone is like that, but to generalize across anyone who likes Mike P's playing is no more valid or valuable than generalizing across Mike Mangini's "no groove" idea. It's useless. You either like him (either one) or you don't and I can't understand why that's not enough. I can't understand why those that prefer Portnoy over Mangini - for any reasons: groove, arranging, writing, because it's Sunday - can't just be "their opinion" and left alone. And likewise to Mangini. There are plenty of people here that gush over Mangini, and that's fine (he's a very talented drummer, anyone can see that) but as soon as someone gushes over Portnoy, as I sometimes do, they're labeled "apologists" and the very personal, subjective reasons why they gush are picked apart like facts on a trigonometry test when at the end of the day it really just boils down to "what do I like". And I can't speak for anyone else, but "what I like" is not science. I can see patterns in it, but honestly, I hear something/someone and I either like it or I don't. It's really that simple.
As for the first part of your post, no, no one is hurt by anyone thinking that Portnoy is a Neal Morse or Steven Wilson, but it's not reality. That is where I push back, on the extra credit he seems to get in regards to songwriting. As I said before, collaboration, where he seems to excel, is great, and is the hallmark of popular music, just don't tell me he is a Neal Morse or John Lennon or Steven Wilson or Paul McCartney, because he is not. And there is nothing wrong with that. Songwriters like those guys are a rare breed.
Bottom line. DT15 is outstanding and I hope it brings them new fans as well as living up to the hopes of their existing fan base. :metal :hefdaddy
How is the 8-string track? Does it sound like JP is just dipping his toe into the waters and is using the extra string sparingly ?
Bottom line. DT15 is outstanding and I hope it brings them new fans as well as living up to the hopes of their existing fan base. :metal :hefdaddy
How is the 8-string track? Does it sound like JP is just dipping his toe into the waters and is using the extra string sparingly ?
Djent Theater
If everything is going to work as usual, we should have something about the new single in about 37 minutes from now...
If everything is going to work as usual, we should have something about the new single in about 37 minutes from now...
I thought new music came out on Friday's..?
If everything is going to work as usual, we should have something about the new single in about 37 minutes from now...
I thought new music came out on Friday's..?
Yes, I'm pretty sure it will be on a Friday if/when it drops.
If everything is going to work as usual, we should have something about the new single in about 37 minutes from now...
I thought new music came out on Friday's..?
Yes, I'm pretty sure it will be on a Friday if/when it drops.
Yeah, but is on monday when a teaser usually comes out.
And of course i was wrong :D
Does anyone know if the DT15 tour will have a second US leg? Looking at the dates now and the one show in my city is not from the list of usual venues and is on a terrible night of the week for me.
I was told by a Sony/Inside Out rep they were not sure when or if a new single was being released.
I was told by a Sony/Inside Out rep they were not sure when or if a new single was being released.
So we are going to have to wait the last 5 weeks with no more music? :'(
anyone else find it odd how little the band has said about the album and the songwriting process? Feels like there is little PR or interviewing happening vs. the last 4 albums.
I was told by a Sony/Inside Out rep they were not sure when or if a new single was being released.
So we are going to have to wait the last 5 weeks with no more music? :'(
anyone else find it odd how little the band has said about the album and the songwriting process? Feels like there is little PR or interviewing happening vs. the last 4 albums.
10 weeks is the standard industry promo cycle.I was told by a Sony/Inside Out rep they were not sure when or if a new single was being released.
So we are going to have to wait the last 5 weeks with no more music? :'(
anyone else find it odd how little the band has said about the album and the songwriting process? Feels like there is little PR or interviewing happening vs. the last 4 albums.
My guess is more will come out closer to release.
They started the hype cycle too far in advance. No one's going to get on a three month hype train too much else going on. Should have been two months max.
10 weeks is the standard industry promo cycle.I was told by a Sony/Inside Out rep they were not sure when or if a new single was being released.
So we are going to have to wait the last 5 weeks with no more music? :'(
anyone else find it odd how little the band has said about the album and the songwriting process? Feels like there is little PR or interviewing happening vs. the last 4 albums.
My guess is more will come out closer to release.
They started the hype cycle too far in advance. No one's going to get on a three month hype train too much else going on. Should have been two months max.
Glasser may I ask how you have inside access to this stuff?
IIRC, both the Haken album and LTE3 were delayed so that's why they were available so "early" to reviewers.
As for the current promo cycle for DT, it's pretty standard for Inside Out to start promoting their albums 3 months before release. It was the same for DOT and most of their big releases nowadays.
If they continue their usual practice, we should be getting a single quite soon and reviewers should be getting their promo copies too.
A View...:
Announcement: 28 Jul (12 weeks before release)
(source: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=54868.msg2794100#msg2794100)
1st single: 13 Aug (10 weeks before release)
Release: 22 Oct
Distance Over Time:
Announcement: implied 3 Nov (16 weeks before release)
(source: closest I could find was https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52696.msg2487649#msg2487649)
1st single: 7 Dec (11 weeks before release)
2nd single: 11 Jan (6 weeks before release)
3rd single: 8 Feb (2 weeks before release)
Release: 22 Feb
The Astonishing:
Announcement: 3 Nov (12 weeks before release)
(source: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44975.0)
1st single: 3 Dec (8 weeks before release)
2nd single: 22 Jan (1 week before release)
Release: 29 Jan
Dream Theater (S/T):
Announcement: 6 Jul (11 weeks before release)
(source: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36530.0)
1st single: 5 Aug (7 weeks before release)
2nd single: 9 Sep (2 weeks before release)
Release: 23 Sep
A Dramatic Turn Of Events:
Announcement: 8 Jun (14 weeks before release)
(source: http://www.msopr.com/press-releases/dream-theater-announce-a-dramatic-turn-of-events/)
1st single: 29 Jun (11 weeks before release)
Release: 13 Sep
Since JP announced today the majesty 8 strings, I bet on the next single for immediate release to be the song recorded with it :DJust seen the promo of the 8 string with JP, it looks beautiful! :metal
I was told by a Sony/Inside Out rep they were not sure when or if a new single was being released.
Since JP announced today the majesty 8 strings, I bet on the next single for immediate release to be the song recorded with it :DJust seen the promo of the 8 string with JP, it looks beautiful! :metal
Since JP announced today the majesty 8 strings, I bet on the next single for immediate release to be the song recorded with it :D
Since JP announced today the majesty 8 strings, I bet on the next single for immediate release to be the song recorded with it :DJust seen the promo of the 8 string with JP, it looks beautiful! :metal
Link?
Thanks DreamerTV! That guitar looks like something built by NASA. :coolio :eekSince JP announced today the majesty 8 strings, I bet on the next single for immediate release to be the song recorded with it :DJust seen the promo of the 8 string with JP, it looks beautiful! :metal
Link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BtTf0tx7tc
Since JP announced today the majesty 8 strings, I bet on the next single for immediate release to be the song recorded with it :DJust seen the promo of the 8 string with JP, it looks beautiful! :metal
Link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BtTf0tx7tc
IIRC, both the Haken album and LTE3 were delayed so that's why they were available so "early" to reviewers.
As for the current promo cycle for DT, it's pretty standard for Inside Out to start promoting their albums 3 months before release. It was the same for DOT and most of their big releases nowadays.
If they continue their usual practice, we should be getting a single quite soon and reviewers should be getting their promo copies too.
Yes, I recall them being delayed. Looking forward to buying the new DT on cd. Streams are not the same experience, not even close obviously.
If I buy an album on Vinyl these days - then Spotify is fine for 'out and about' listening. I'm not that much of a music quality snob to go
" I have to listen to this on CD quality on my £3,000,000 headphones just for walking around outside ".
Luckily a lot of Vinyls on Amazon come with a free MP3 download.
For everything else there'sMastercardSpotify.
Since JP announced today the majesty 8 strings, I bet on the next single for immediate release to be the song recorded with it :DJust seen the promo of the 8 string with JP, it looks beautiful! :metal
For a second there I was hoping the background music was the new 8 string track LOL. I think it's actually a song on his solo album instead.
Link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BtTf0tx7tc
Thanks!
Since JP announced today the majesty 8 strings, I bet on the next single for immediate release to be the song recorded with it :DJust seen the promo of the 8 string with JP, it looks beautiful! :metal
For a second there I was hoping the background music was the new 8 string track LOL. I think it's actually a song on his solo album instead.
Link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BtTf0tx7tc
Thanks!
This conversation inspired me to dig up this info. Perhaps we can extrapolate a prediction from this or something. :justjenQuoteA View...:
Announcement: 28 Jul (12 weeks before release)
(source: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=54868.msg2794100#msg2794100)
1st single: 13 Aug (10 weeks before release)
Release: 22 Oct
Distance Over Time:
Announcement: implied 3 Nov (16 weeks before release)
(source: closest I could find was https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52696.msg2487649#msg2487649)
1st single: 7 Dec (11 weeks before release)
2nd single: 11 Jan (6 weeks before release)
3rd single: 8 Feb (2 weeks before release)
Release: 22 Feb
The Astonishing:
Announcement: 3 Nov (12 weeks before release)
(source: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44975.0)
1st single: 3 Dec (8 weeks before release)
2nd single: 22 Jan (1 week before release)
Release: 29 Jan
Dream Theater (S/T):
Announcement: 6 Jul (11 weeks before release)
(source: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=36530.0)
1st single: 5 Aug (7 weeks before release)
2nd single: 9 Sep (2 weeks before release)
Release: 23 Sep
A Dramatic Turn Of Events:
Announcement: 8 Jun (14 weeks before release)
(source: http://www.msopr.com/press-releases/dream-theater-announce-a-dramatic-turn-of-events/)
1st single: 29 Jun (11 weeks before release)
Release: 13 Sep
10 weeks is the standard industry promo cycle.I was told by a Sony/Inside Out rep they were not sure when or if a new single was being released.
So we are going to have to wait the last 5 weeks with no more music? :'(
anyone else find it odd how little the band has said about the album and the songwriting process? Feels like there is little PR or interviewing happening vs. the last 4 albums.
My guess is more will come out closer to release.
They started the hype cycle too far in advance. No one's going to get on a three month hype train too much else going on. Should have been two months max.
It depends on the label. Nuclear Blast does not release promos until a week before release. Frontiers Music about 3 weeks. I had Haken “Virus” 3 months ahead of the release date and LTE3 almost 2 months early. It varies for sure.
10 weeks is the standard industry promo cycle.I was told by a Sony/Inside Out rep they were not sure when or if a new single was being released.
So we are going to have to wait the last 5 weeks with no more music? :'(
anyone else find it odd how little the band has said about the album and the songwriting process? Feels like there is little PR or interviewing happening vs. the last 4 albums.
My guess is more will come out closer to release.
They started the hype cycle too far in advance. No one's going to get on a three month hype train too much else going on. Should have been two months max.
It depends on the label. Nuclear Blast does not release promos until a week before release. Frontiers Music about 3 weeks. I had Haken “Virus” 3 months ahead of the release date and LTE3 almost 2 months early. It varies for sure.
Oh, I know different labels do things differently. I'm just saying, given what is typical (not to mention how DT normally do things), it doesn't make sense to complain about the new album announcement or first single having been "too early."
Doing something just because the way it was done is dangerous
Doing something just because the way it was done is dangerous
Well, yes, in the abstract. But we aren't talking about foreign policy, or going to the barber for your dentistry needs. We're just talking about prog metal album promotion.
Can we get some more album reviews from people who've heard it?
Can we get some more album reviews from people who've heard it?
+ one for this! I also wonder where people who've heard the whole album rank The Alien among the other songs:-)
Sure!Can we get some more album reviews from people who've heard it?
+ one for this! I also wonder where people who've heard the whole album rank The Alien among the other songs:-)
Can you even give us a hint as to which album it most resembles ?
Can you even give us a hint as to which album it most resembles ?
Can you even give us a hint as to which album it most resembles ?
10 weeks is the standard industry promo cycle.I was told by a Sony/Inside Out rep they were not sure when or if a new single was being released.
So we are going to have to wait the last 5 weeks with no more music? :'(
anyone else find it odd how little the band has said about the album and the songwriting process? Feels like there is little PR or interviewing happening vs. the last 4 albums.
My guess is more will come out closer to release.
They started the hype cycle too far in advance. No one's going to get on a three month hype train too much else going on. Should have been two months max.
It depends on the label. Nuclear Blast does not release promos until a week before release. Frontiers Music about 3 weeks. I had Haken “Virus” 3 months ahead of the release date and LTE3 almost 2 months early. It varies for sure.
10 weeks is the standard industry promo cycle.I was told by a Sony/Inside Out rep they were not sure when or if a new single was being released.
So we are going to have to wait the last 5 weeks with no more music? :'(
anyone else find it odd how little the band has said about the album and the songwriting process? Feels like there is little PR or interviewing happening vs. the last 4 albums.
My guess is more will come out closer to release.
They started the hype cycle too far in advance. No one's going to get on a three month hype train too much else going on. Should have been two months max.
It depends on the label. Nuclear Blast does not release promos until a week before release. Frontiers Music about 3 weeks. I had Haken “Virus” 3 months ahead of the release date and LTE3 almost 2 months early. It varies for sure.
Aren’t Beast In Black on Nuclear Blast? The first single for their new album came out on 3rd September and the album does not come out until 29th October.
I'm just curious to know if there's an instrumental track or not.
I'm just curious to know if there's an instrumental track or not.
I am actually very curious to know this as well. I think I'll be happier if there is not unless the band has something new to say, which they haven't before. I find that I am plenty satisfied by the average DT song's instrumental passages.
Can you even give us a hint as to which album it most resembles ?
I can say with confidence that the album stands alone but scopes their entire career musically.
Def don’t need an instrumental on an album with only 7 tracks (yes I know ToT) and I’ll bet the title track has an instrumental section longer than most band’s instrumental songs.
Really don’t want another single because I won’t be able to resist. That would only leave 5 “new” songs.
Def don’t need an instrumental on an album with only 7 tracks (yes I know ToT) and I’ll bet the title track has an instrumental section longer than most band’s instrumental songs.
I'm just curious to know if there's an instrumental track or not.
I am actually very curious to know this as well. I think I'll be happier if there is not unless the band has something new to say, which they haven't before. I find that I am plenty satisfied by the average DT song's instrumental passages.
No. But there’s plenty of ear candy.
As someone who has actually jammed with Mike Mangini, I find this idea completely silly.
Please tell us more! Interested to hear about big musician playing on a more casual setting.
Def don’t need an instrumental on an album with only 7 tracks (yes I know ToT) and I’ll bet the title track has an instrumental section longer than most band’s instrumental songs.
Yeah no kidding. DT is the last band in the world who needs to include instrumental tracks on their albums.
Can you even give us a hint as to which album it most resembles ?
In all seriousness, I don't want to do that because, although there are definitely things in the DT-family that it reminds me of, I don't want to color people's perceptions and feed potentially false preconceived notions.
Def don’t need an instrumental on an album with only 7 tracks (yes I know ToT) and I’ll bet the title track has an instrumental section longer than most band’s instrumental songs.
Yeah no kidding. DT is the last band in the world who needs to include instrumental tracks on their albums.
Particularly when Petrucci has not long released his solo instrumental record and then the LTE instrumental double album.
Can you even give us a hint as to which album it most resembles ?
In all seriousness, I don't want to do that because, although there are definitely things in the DT-family that it reminds me of, I don't want to color people's perceptions and feed potentially false preconceived notions.
But structurally already I cannot *not* think of Black Clouds. With the giant opener and the epic at the end, three songs living in the 10 minute range and only 7 tracks.
Can you even give us a hint as to which album it most resembles ?
In all seriousness, I don't want to do that because, although there are definitely things in the DT-family that it reminds me of, I don't want to color people's perceptions and feed potentially false preconceived notions.
But structurally already I cannot *not* think of Black Clouds. With the giant opener and the epic at the end, three songs living in the 10 minute range and only 7 tracks.
Have I been missing a bonus track all these years???
I mean obviously the new album has 7 tracks.
Some people need to learn to read ;D ;D ;D
----
When Black Clouds was announced - I was deflated a bit at reading that it only had 6 tracks. I knew I'd get tired of it very quickly.
Promotion cycle!!!
Wow, that was a quick 9 minutes.
For those in the know...who is the interviewer? Didn't they use him in another set of videos.
Promotion cycle!!!
Wow, that was a quick 9 minutes.
For those in the know...who is the interviewer? Didn't they use him in another set of videos.
Roie Alvin (probably spelling that wrong). He’s the creator of The Prog Report. He is also Petrucci’s PR guy. He may be the PR person for the band as well.
I want so badly to see this interview,but i don't want to hear new music till the release.No
Are there snippets of the album in there?
I want so badly to see this interview,but i don't want to hear new music till the release.
Are there snippets of the album in there?
I want so badly to see this interview,but i don't want to hear new music till the release.
Are there snippets of the album in there?
I really didn't get anything out of that interview.. :justjen
I really didn't get anything out of that interview.. :justjen
:lol
I know, right?
Still, it's good to see them out there.
I really didn't get anything out of that interview.. :justjen
:lol
I know, right?
Still, it's good to see them out there.
I got three things:
The epic might have the same structure as A Change of Seasons
They may have been subconsciously influenced by SFAM for some of the songs.
When James writes lyrics, he comes up with the vocal melody first, and then finds words to fit into it. I've always wondered how each of them do it.
I mean obviously the new album has 7 tracks.
Some people need to learn to read ;D ;D ;D
----
When Black Clouds was announced - I was deflated a bit at reading that it only had 6 tracks. I knew I'd get tired of it very quickly.
So you had a preconceived notion based on nothing related to the music or the band, but the amount of songs... ???
I mean obviously the new album has 7 tracks.
Some people need to learn to read ;D ;D ;D
----
When Black Clouds was announced - I was deflated a bit at reading that it only had 6 tracks. I knew I'd get tired of it very quickly.
So you had a preconceived notion based on nothing related to the music or the band, but the amount of songs... ???
I feel most people's disappointment came from MP hyping up the album as all those Epic songs people love on one album. So people then had a preconceived notion that the songs would be similar to those Epics, or how they expected them to sound.
So you had a preconceived notion based on nothing related to the music or the band, but the amount of songs... ???
Honestly, I can understand where he is coming from on that in that specific context. We had gotten a single and were probably going to get another single before the album dropped (which we did). And then there was going to be a 12SS song. Some fans were burned out on the 12SS by then. And even among those that weren't, among many, I think the excitement of getting the final installment was tempered with a feeling of being "ready" for it to be done with and the expectation that it would largely feel and sound very familiar, given what came before. So I think it is easy to have gone in thinking, "man, with only six songs, that'll only be 3 that feel "new" and "fresh" once I get the album in my hands. And if I don't like 1 of them, that's only 2 that I'll enjoy." I'm a huge fan, and even I felt a little bit of that. So, yeah, while it's silly to draw any firm conclusions from things like number of songs, song lengths, etc., I don't think what Kowtow is saying is off base.
Contrary to most, I actually like how The Shattered Fortress uses those call-backs, and repeated themes.
To Glasser,Bosk,Noxon etc.
Can you hear the new approach Jordan said he took composing his solos,in the new album?
He said that this time he took his time, influenced by the way JP's is composing his solos.
Can you hear any difference,any interesting sounds?
And,do we get to hear the annoying snarling pig sound again?
To Glasser,Bosk,Noxon etc.
Can you hear the new approach Jordan said he took composing his solos,in the new album?
He said that this time he took his time, influenced by the way JP's is composing his solos.
Can you hear any difference,any interesting sounds?
And,do we get to hear the annoying snarling pig sound again?
I am posting on here for the first time in quite a while. Probably two years. Been a DT fan since 1991.
Just heard "The Alien." The first two minutes sound like a bunch of Generic DT riffs pulled out of a hat and thrown together.
Once the vocals enter, however, the song is Gold. I am very excited for the album. I will almost certainly go see them in Brooklyn.
Shout out to the OG Long Island Dream Theater fans!!!
Can you even give us a hint as to which album it most resembles ?
In all seriousness, I don't want to do that because, although there are definitely things in the DT-family that it reminds me of, I don't want to color people's perceptions and feed potentially false preconceived notions.
But structurally already I cannot *not* think of Black Clouds. With the giant opener and the epic at the end, three songs living in the 10 minute range and only 7 tracks.
Have I been missing a bonus track all these years???
I mean obviously the new album has 7 tracks.
Some people need to learn to read ;D ;D ;D
----
When Black Clouds was announced - I was deflated a bit at reading that it only had 6 tracks. I knew I'd get tired of it very quickly.
I'm aware you're joking, but Raw Dog exists :PYes, despite everything I've done.
Raw Dog is awesome. Ask Hef, he'll tell you!>:( :censored
Bosk is right.
Also I loved The Shattered Fortress and the only part I thought needed work was the literal half-step key change going into the "Take all of me". section.
That felt SO clumsy.
JLB commented this emoji: ⏳ (hourglass/sand clock), on IG when DT posted about the DTHQ interview.
Could be Trascending Time the next single?
BC&SL is the last classic DT album, though Octavarium was the end of the classic era of the band for me.
On SC and BC&SL, the band were still trying to expand the core DT sound, even if this is when the band started sounding a little formulaic at times.
Every album since has been an attempt at reaching former glories with mixed results.
BC&SL is the last classic DT album, though Octavarium was the end of the classic era of the band for me.
On SC and BC&SL, the band were still trying to expand the core DT sound, even if this is when the band started sounding a little formulaic at times.
Every album since has been an attempt at reaching former glories with mixed results.
SFAM is the last classic album for me and the band then went consistently downhill from there until the inclusion of Mangini gave them a bit of a shot in the arm, not to the point of any of the Mangini era albums being classics, just better than the period from SDOIT to BC&SL era where each album was worse than the last.
So is anybody here already on 09/17/21? Any new single on spotify?
I'll tell you what is good about BC&SL ... the title.I mean, I guess so.
I'll tell you what is good about BC&SL ... the title.I mean, I guess so.
I was never really enamored with that album, but it has fallen hard for me in the rankings over the last several years. It has now fallen to the bottom of the pile, the only album I hold lower than WDADU.
Thanks!So is anybody here already on 09/17/21? Any new single on spotify?
Next week.
BC&SL is the last classic DT album, though Octavarium was the end of the classic era of the band for me.
On SC and BC&SL, the band were still trying to expand the core DT sound, even if this is when the band started sounding a little formulaic at times.
Every album since has been an attempt at reaching former glories with mixed results.
SFAM is the last classic album for me and the band then went consistently downhill from there until the inclusion of Mangini gave them a bit of a shot in the arm, not to the point of any of the Mangini era albums being classics, just better than the period from SDOIT to BC&SL era where each album was worse than the last. I don’t dislike any of those albums, they’re just my least favourite.
Put it this way, I don’t think we’ll be getting any more tours where they play any post SFAM album in full every night other than if they’re playing their latest album in full on the tour for that album. DT’s two classic albums are I&W and SFAM, that’s why they did the whole anniversary tour for them. Can’t see them doing that again.
I can 100% see them playing Octavarium in full .Please. No.
I can 100% see them playing Octavarium in full .Please. No.
Let me ask this to those who've heard the album -- is The Alien the best/one of the best songs on the album? I'm really loving the alien so if it's not one of the best of the album then we're definitely in for a treat
If BCSL is the end of "classic DT era" so I'm glad that "classic DT era" is over. :)
Comparing Scenes to Train of Thought, that’s just . . . wow . .
Adding stupid metalcore and nu-metal influences and gruffer vocals isn’t really expanding the sound to me, just dumbing it down. Thank goodness for this second chapter with Mangini.
If BCSL is the end of "classic DT era" so I'm glad that "classic DT era" is over. :)
If BCSL is the end of "classic DT era" so I'm glad that "classic DT era" is over. :)
Well, I said Octavarium was the end of the classic DT era, and that BC&SL was the last classic album.
You guys graduate from The Center For Kids Who Can't Read Good? ;)
If BCSL is the end of "classic DT era" so I'm glad that "classic DT era" is over. :)
Well, I said Octavarium was the end of the classic DT era, and that BC&SL was the last classic album.
You guys graduate from The Center For Kids Who Can't Read Good? ;)
If BCSL is the end of "classic DT era" so I'm glad that "classic DT era" is over. :)
Amen. The Mangini-era, the Astonishing aside, which caused me great anguish, has been one of the best things to happen to this band's output.
Also, I don't know why BCSL would be the end of the alleged classic DT era. Their albums are different enough that one could reasonably say there is no classic era. Seems like an arbitrary point unless MP is somehow required to define the classic era.
If BCSL is the end of "classic DT era" so I'm glad that "classic DT era" is over. :)
Well, I said Octavarium was the end of the classic DT era, and that BC&SL was the last classic album.
You guys graduate from The Center For Kids Who Can't Read Good? ;)
That explanation didn’t help your case! :lol
If BCSL is the end of "classic DT era" so I'm glad that "classic DT era" is over. :)
Amen. The Mangini-era, the Astonishing aside, which caused me great anguish, has been one of the best things to happen to this band's output.
Also, I don't know why BCSL would be the end of the alleged classic DT era. Their albums are different enough that one could reasonably say there is no classic era. Seems like an arbitrary point unless MP is somehow required to define the classic era.
To me, the classic era of WDaDU-Octavarium is a band who did put out a different album every time, where there was little regard for genre. DT was a fusion band, not just a progressive metal band. They fused metal, with progressive rock, a touch of jazz, with some classical influence, and blended it in such a way that it was both complex and catchy/memorable, something most bands struggle to do consistently. DT did it for about 8 albums straight. ToT was a sort of departure from this, but only that they wanted to make a heavier album than they had up til that point, but the concept was still the same. Octavarium had songs that were more straightforward like TALW or IWBY but weren't still focused on "this is the [insert genre] song" and the other songs continued the DT tradition described above.
Enter Systematic Chaos. Now this album did some things similar to Octavarium (lifting direct influences from other bands on certain tracks) but this time, it was all about balls and chunk, and trying to appeal to the broader metal audience (whereas ToT was just a desire to make a heavier album) while making sure the music still appealed to their core fan base. BC&SL continued this trend to an extent, but I think it was a better album, since to me SC loses momentum after TDEN, and they were less concerned about the balls and chunk overall, bringing back lighter playing and proggier compositions, particularly on the back half of the album.
Since then, the albums have been either an attempt at former glories, or doing something so outside the box for the band it fell short of even the biggest Mangini-era fans liking it (The Astonishing) and between all 4 albums with MM, while the production is different on each album, the core sound of the band is the same. There is little to no progression in their general sound since SC, other than MM replacing MP before ADTOE. DoT could have been written in 2011, and ADTOE could have been written in 2018. Minus lineup changes, I can't say SDoIT or ToT could have been written in 1992. I don't even think Octavarium (the song) could have been written in the 90s. They had to grow and evolve to be able to, or want to, write the music on those albums.
If BCSL is the end of "classic DT era" so I'm glad that "classic DT era" is over. :)
Amen. The Mangini-era, the Astonishing aside, which caused me great anguish, has been one of the best things to happen to this band's output.
Also, I don't know why BCSL would be the end of the alleged classic DT era. Their albums are different enough that one could reasonably say there is no classic era. Seems like an arbitrary point unless MP is somehow required to define the classic era.
To me, the classic era of WDaDU-Octavarium is a band who did put out a different album every time, where there was little regard for genre. DT was a fusion band, not just a progressive metal band. They fused metal, with progressive rock, a touch of jazz, with some classical influence, and blended it in such a way that it was both complex and catchy/memorable, something most bands struggle to do consistently. DT did it for about 8 albums straight. ToT was a sort of departure from this, but only that they wanted to make a heavier album than they had up til that point, but the concept was still the same. Octavarium had songs that were more straightforward like TALW or IWBY but weren't still focused on "this is the [insert genre] song" and the other songs continued the DT tradition described above. Octavarium is both the end of the classic era, but sort of the beginning of the modern era, because:
Enter Systematic Chaos. Now this album did some things similar to Octavarium (lifting direct influences from other bands on certain tracks) but this time, it was all about balls and chunk, and trying to appeal to the broader metal audience (whereas ToT was just a desire to make a heavier album) while making sure the music still appealed to their core fan base. BC&SL continued this trend to an extent, but I think it was a better album, since to me SC loses momentum after TDEN, and they were less concerned about the balls and chunk overall, bringing back lighter playing and proggier compositions, particularly on the back half of the album.
Since then, the albums have been either an attempt at former glories, or doing something so outside the box for the band it fell short of even the biggest Mangini-era fans liking it (The Astonishing) and between all 4 albums with MM, while the production is different on each album, the core sound of the band is the same. There is little to no progression in their general sound since SC, other than MM replacing MP before ADTOE. DoT could have been written in 2011, and ADTOE could have been written in 2018. Minus lineup changes, I can't say SDoIT or ToT could have been written in 1992. I don't even think Octavarium (the song) could have been written in the 90s. They had to grow and evolve to be able to, or want to, write the music on those albums.
I think he means there was a melting pot of styles across the first eight albums. Not every album had a mix of styles (jazz, classical, etc.).
I think he means there was a melting pot of styles across the first eight albums. Not every album had a mix of styles (jazz, classical, etc.).
Octavarium definitely felt like the band were closing the door on an era. They finished their record contract and were ready to move to roadrunner and did an anniversary retrospective tour to support the album (with a documentary accompanying the dvd). They also ended a few traditions. The whole end of album looping to the next album thing ended with Octavarium and SC/BCSL didn’t have any musical or lyrical theme or concept to tie the songs together (everything between Scenes and Octavarium felt tied to a grander vision). Those two albums also had a mix of highly technical prog and metal that set them apart from the albums before. They also abandoned evening with tours after Octavarium. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if MP sees that period in retrospect as a decline that led to him burning out and leaving the band.
I think he means there was a melting pot of styles across the first eight albums. Not every album had a mix of styles (jazz, classical, etc.).
Well, the Astonishing certainly throws into the pot a new musical ingredient. I agree DoT doesn't do anything new, but when you consider the reaction to TA, it makes sense why that album was the way it was.
DT12 has a classical element in the title track...more so than Octavarium.
I've never heard any jazz influence in DT...not a good or a bad thing, but I just don't think it's there.
Awesome! You might have mentioned this before but how does the production of the album compare to that of d/t? Alien sounds like an improvement
I think he means there was a melting pot of styles across the first eight albums. Not every album had a mix of styles (jazz, classical, etc.).
Well, the Astonishing certainly throws into the pot a new musical ingredient.
I've never heard any jazz influence in DT...not a good or a bad thing, but I just don't think it's there.
It’s hard to delineate the Mangini era of DT. They shifted in some different directions after Portnoy left, but they have had some twists too. DT12 was quite different from ADTOE and felt like the band was making the statement that this would be the start of a new period for them. But then The Astonishing throws everything out the window. D/T seemed to go back to the DT12 style of things, who knows how the new album will fit. With the Rock operas, self titled albums, and general lack of through lines within the albums it’s hard to characterize what the current DT is. Even though we’ve had this lineup for 10 years now, much longer than the stretch from Scenes to Octavarium.
These are not complaints btw.
If BCSL is the end of "classic DT era" so I'm glad that "classic DT era" is over. :)
I can 100% see them playing Octavarium in full .Please. No.
Please. Yes.
I dont know what anyone is hearing in Octavarium to make himself think THAT album marks the end of any era. My opinion, is that Octavarium marks the beginning of a descent that didn't reverse course until 2011. As I look at the Octavarium track list, I can't see what anyone thinks is so great about that album.
It’s hard to delineate the Mangini era of DT. They shifted in some different directions after Portnoy left, but they have had some twists too. DT12 was quite different from ADTOE and felt like the band was making the statement that this would be the start of a new period for them. But then The Astonishing throws everything out the window. D/T seemed to go back to the DT12 style of things, who knows how the new album will fit. With the Rock operas, self titled albums, and general lack of through lines within the albums it’s hard to characterize what the current DT is. Even though we’ve had this lineup for 10 years now, much longer than the stretch from Scenes to Octavarium.
These are not complaints btw.
I think he means there was a melting pot of styles across the first eight albums. Not every album had a mix of styles (jazz, classical, etc.).
Well, the Astonishing certainly throws into the pot a new musical ingredient.
What style of music is that? Disney is not a genre of music.I've never heard any jazz influence in DT...not a good or a bad thing, but I just don't think it's there.
It's there. If you're willing to start a thread about it, I'll list them.
To me, the defining sound of modern DT is the opening note/chord of Dystopian Overture from The Astonishing. It encapsulates what DT is and sounds like with Mangini. Then throw in super processed vocals from JLB.
That’s very true and something I didn’t think about before, although ADTOE/DT12 felt similar to the progression from I&W to Awake. I suppose the biggest difference is that the band didn’t have any stable lineups throughout that period.It’s hard to delineate the Mangini era of DT. They shifted in some different directions after Portnoy left, but they have had some twists too. DT12 was quite different from ADTOE and felt like the band was making the statement that this would be the start of a new period for them. But then The Astonishing throws everything out the window. D/T seemed to go back to the DT12 style of things, who knows how the new album will fit. With the Rock operas, self titled albums, and general lack of through lines within the albums it’s hard to characterize what the current DT is. Even though we’ve had this lineup for 10 years now, much longer than the stretch from Scenes to Octavarium.
These are not complaints btw.
Maybe it's similar in the way that each DT album from WDADU through 6 D's is different.
I think he means there was a melting pot of styles across the first eight albums. Not every album had a mix of styles (jazz, classical, etc.).
Well, the Astonishing certainly throws into the pot a new musical ingredient.
What style of music is that? Disney is not a genre of music.
I'm limited then because the moment I heard the 6 D's Overture, I thought Disney.
I definitely heard some stuff akin to the Disney soundtracks, some bits from Lion King mostly. Didn’t John say at one point he was inspired by Disney soundtracks? Like Frozen or something?
I think he means there was a melting pot of styles across the first eight albums. Not every album had a mix of styles (jazz, classical, etc.).
Well, the Astonishing certainly throws into the pot a new musical ingredient.
What style of music is that? Disney is not a genre of music.I've never heard any jazz influence in DT...not a good or a bad thing, but I just don't think it's there.
It's there. If you're willing to start a thread about it, I'll list them.
Sadly, I never got to see them at Sundance. I think I was 16 years old the last time they played there, but my old guitarist (a Petrucci student at the time) saw them there several times. My first DT show was at a shithole in Deer Park called SPARKS in December of 1992 or January of 1993. I still have the ticket signed by JP. Saw them at the Paramount in 2018 and I'm going to Brooklyn in November. I talked my wife into going with me :lol
Shout out to the OG Long Island Dream Theater fans!!!
I miss shows at the Sundance!!!!
Beauty and the Beast? Alladin? Lion King?
:lol It's quite impressive that a thread about a new album allready has 101 pages nearly a month and a half before its release.. is this a first?
Brother Can You Hear Me... sounds a lot like a song from Church...
Also this thread has 101 pages now - Can we get a new one ? :)
Brother, Can You Hear Me sounds like a song from church :biggrin:
It's arguable that Train of Thought is actually more popular than ScenesNo it isn't.
I definitely heard some stuff akin to the Disney soundtracks, some bits from Lion King mostly. Didn’t John say at one point he was inspired by Disney soundtracks? Like Frozen or something?
I remember JP making comparisons to Disney, yeah.I think he means there was a melting pot of styles across the first eight albums. Not every album had a mix of styles (jazz, classical, etc.).
Well, the Astonishing certainly throws into the pot a new musical ingredient.
What style of music is that? Disney is not a genre of music.I've never heard any jazz influence in DT...not a good or a bad thing, but I just don't think it's there.
It's there. If you're willing to start a thread about it, I'll list them.
DT members have listened to Jazz and Jazz Fusion. There's no denying that. And you surely can trace influences and licks/fills (I have mentioned in another thread that Mangini sometimes reminds me of Chad Wackerman).
But I'm in the field of thought that Jazz is not a sound , Jazz is an ethos. And Dream Theater don't follow it; improvisation is the most important aspect of Jazz, and DT music has none of that.
It's arguable that Train of Thought is actually more popular than ScenesNo it isn't.
Yeah, but there's no jazz in DT. Multiple members have certainly studied/been influenced by certain jazz or jazz fusion players, but there is no jazz component to the music of Dream Theater.
They "jam" in the studio to lead to composed pieces, and their improvisation (when they do it) live is not like jazz improv; it's closer to what jam bands do.
Yeah, that's meaningless.
Wow thanks! However, I wonder if it reached anywhere near that point a month and a half before the album release?:lol It's quite impressive that a thread about a new album allready has 101 pages nearly a month and a half before its release.. is this a first?
TA went on to 225 pages!
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44903.msg2086599#msg2086599
Yeah, that's meaningless.
I backed up my claims with what data I could find quickly. Is there data that contradicts? I'd like to see sales for Japan and Europe.
Scenes surely has a reputation as a prog classic, but I would bet younger fans are into ToT more than Scenes.
ToT was also massively controversial when it was released, I read more discussion about that album over the years, than I have for Scenes or any other DT album other than IaW, throughout the internet, whether it be on progarchives (where Scenes does has more reviews than ToT I think), metal archives, Steve Hoffman, and any other prog or metal sites I've visited.
Unless the difference in sales between albums by the same artist is massive, it's probably irrelevant. Besides, just because more people may have bought TOT doesn't mean that they all liked it. Sales figures count just as much for people disappointed in a given album as they do for people who love it.Yeah, that's meaningless.
I backed up my claims with what data I could find quickly. Is there data that contradicts? I'd like to see sales for Japan and Europe.
Scenes surely has a reputation as a prog classic, but I would bet younger fans are into ToT more than Scenes.
ToT was also massively controversial when it was released, I read more discussion about that album over the years, than I have for Scenes or any other DT album other than IaW, throughout the internet, whether it be on progarchives (where Scenes does has more reviews than ToT I think), metal archives, Steve Hoffman, and any other prog or metal sites I've visited.
Unless the difference in sales between albums by the same artist is massive, it's probably irrelevant. Besides, just because more people may have bought TOT doesn't mean that they all liked it. Sales figures count just as much for people disappointed in a given album as they do for people who love it.Yeah, that's meaningless.
I backed up my claims with what data I could find quickly. Is there data that contradicts? I'd like to see sales for Japan and Europe.
Scenes surely has a reputation as a prog classic, but I would bet younger fans are into ToT more than Scenes.
ToT was also massively controversial when it was released, I read more discussion about that album over the years, than I have for Scenes or any other DT album other than IaW, throughout the internet, whether it be on progarchives (where Scenes does has more reviews than ToT I think), metal archives, Steve Hoffman, and any other prog or metal sites I've visited.
Also, comparing sales figures is not a component when comparing greatness or impact. Is Eagles: Best of Volume 1 a bigger, more impactful album than Songs in the Key of Life? Of course not.
I dont know what anyone is hearing in Octavarium to make himself think THAT album marks the end of any era. My opinion, is that Octavarium marks the beginning of a descent that didn't reverse course until 2011. As I look at the Octavarium track list, I can't see what anyone thinks is so great about that album.
I definitely heard some stuff akin to the Disney soundtracks, some bits from Lion King mostly. Didn’t John say at one point he was inspired by Disney soundtracks? Like Frozen or something?
I remember JP making comparisons to Disney, yeah.I think he means there was a melting pot of styles across the first eight albums. Not every album had a mix of styles (jazz, classical, etc.).
Well, the Astonishing certainly throws into the pot a new musical ingredient.
What style of music is that? Disney is not a genre of music.I've never heard any jazz influence in DT...not a good or a bad thing, but I just don't think it's there.
It's there. If you're willing to start a thread about it, I'll list them.
DT members have listened to Jazz and Jazz Fusion. There's no denying that. And you surely can trace influences and licks/fills (I have mentioned in another thread that Mangini sometimes reminds me of Chad Wackerman).
But I'm in the field of thought that Jazz is not a sound , Jazz is an ethos. And Dream Theater don't follow it; improvisation is the most important aspect of Jazz, and DT music has none of that.
Without going into specifics, the whole solo trade off thing between guitar and keys that DT do, comes from the jazz tradition of soloists taking the spotlight.
There's a lot of jazzy sounds scattered about on IaW, Awake, and FII, as well as on SDoIT and even ADTOE, with flashes here and there on other albums.
I never claimed DT played any actual jazz, or improvised in a jazz setting. They do improvise live though (or did with MP in the band) as do LTE.
Same thing with a band like Planet X, who have incorporated some swing into their music, but they are predominantly prog metal, but with many jazzy influences mixed in.
There is a lot of jazz out there, so much that I don't think anyone could listen to all of it in a lifetime. It may be an ethos to an extent, but there are so many styles, and there is stuff out there that is clearly jazz, but the biggest jazz heads and "purists" would claim "is not jazz". A lot of jazz heads think Miles Davis' music after the late 60s is not jazz. Listen to Tribal Tech, they are almost prog-metal but are clearly jazz-fusion with a guitarist who likes to get heavy once in a while. The band Watchtower could not seem to decide on whether they are a technical prog metal band, or a jazz-fusion band who can thrash.
These Walls being startlingly close to Linkin Park's From the Inside
QuoteThese Walls being startlingly close to Linkin Park's From the Inside
I thought These Walls was supposed to be another Muse ripoff, according to this forum. :P
Hot take but it's one of the best songs they've ever put out, so I don't really care if it's derivative (perhaps) or doesn't really follow their usual style (not a bad thing).
QuoteThese Walls being startlingly close to Linkin Park's From the Inside
I thought These Walls was supposed to be another Muse ripoff, according to this forum. :P
Hot take but it's one of the best songs they've ever put out, so I don't really care if it's derivative (perhaps) or doesn't really follow their usual style (not a bad thing).
I have not listen to Linkin Park in over 15 years, so I had to go back and remind myself of From The Inside (good song, forgot about it honestly). Now it kind of bothers me that These Walls DOES sounds like that song :lol Still great song though.
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
QuoteThese Walls being startlingly close to Linkin Park's From the Inside
I thought These Walls was supposed to be another Muse ripoff, according to this forum. :P
Yeah, that's meaningless.
I backed up my claims with what data I could find quickly. Is there data that contradicts? I'd like to see sales for Japan and Europe.
Scenes surely has a reputation as a prog classic, but I would bet younger fans are into ToT more than Scenes.
ToT was also massively controversial when it was released, I read more discussion about that album over the years, than I have for Scenes or any other DT album other than IaW, throughout the internet, whether it be on progarchives (where Scenes does has more reviews than ToT I think), metal archives, Steve Hoffman, and any other prog or metal sites I've visited.
If one album has a reputation as a prog classic and one doesn't, maybe there's a reason...
Sales can often be misleading and sales could potentially have been inflated for TOT because of the success of Scenes years earlier, solidifying the popularity of the band as a heavyweight within the Prog music genre.
There is a favourite 4 album thread on this very forum from not long ago. Scenes literally has 100 more votes than TOT. If you are going to make the statement that "It's arguable that Train of Thought is actually more popular than Scenes", then we have to take into consideration how popularity for the two has fared over time.
It's a bit rich to say/suggest that trading off solos is showing evidence of jazz influence. I mean, technically, any band that routinely solos might be able to claim that too-- even Slayer. That's not the type of influence we are talking about.
ToT was really popular because it was something a lot of fans disliked
ToT was really popular because it was something a lot of fans disliked
:lol
That makes like zero sense. :lol
ToT was really popular because it was something a lot of fans disliked
:lol
That makes like zero sense. :lol
As I explained above, it was popular because it was popular to hate on it when it came out (that is my perspective from being online in 2004 soaking up as much DT info as I could back then.)
It's a bit rich to say/suggest that trading off solos is showing evidence of jazz influence. I mean, technically, any band that routinely solos might be able to claim that too-- even Slayer. That's not the type of influence we are talking about.
I don't know what else to say, other than you underestimate the scope of influence Jazz has had on music over the last 100+ years.
All the prog bands from the 70s that influenced DT were all listening to jazz and blues when they were growing up.
Iron Maiden and Slayer, two bands who also do the solo duels in their songs, were listening to early heavy metal and/or prog rock bands of the 70s, all of which were listening to heavy amounts of jazz and blues (Sabbath, Priest, Deep Purple, Genesis, Camel, The Doors, etc...)
The idea of taking a solo in rock music to begin with, comes a lot from Jazz and blues, from John Lee Hooker, to Charlie Christian.
ToT was really popular because it was something a lot of fans disliked
:lol
That makes like zero sense. :lol
As I explained above, it was popular because it was popular to hate on it when it came out (that is my perspective from being online in 2004 soaking up as much DT info as I could back then.)
I don't think that's what "popular" means. Wouldn't that make it infamous? Polarizing?
By that logic The Astonishing would be the most popular DT album. :P
It's a bit rich to say/suggest that trading off solos is showing evidence of jazz influence. I mean, technically, any band that routinely solos might be able to claim that too-- even Slayer. That's not the type of influence we are talking about.
I don't know what else to say, other than you underestimate the scope of influence Jazz has had on music over the last 100+ years.
All the prog bands from the 70s that influenced DT were all listening to jazz and blues when they were growing up.
Iron Maiden and Slayer, two bands who also do the solo duels in their songs, were listening to early heavy metal and/or prog rock bands of the 70s, all of which were listening to heavy amounts of jazz and blues (Sabbath, Priest, Deep Purple, Genesis, Camel, The Doors, etc...)
The idea of taking a solo in rock music to begin with, comes a lot from Jazz and blues, from John Lee Hooker, to Charlie Christian.
But wait...if this is really a point about how jazz has influenced most music since the early 1900s (a point I am not disputing and with which I agree) because so many rock and metal bands have instrumental solos-- so it's really more about instrumentation and roles-- then how does that help your argument that the classic era ended with Octavarium? Do the Mangini era albums have fewer solos or fewer instances of dueling solos?
And I could be wrong on this, because I haven't listened to it in a while, but doesn't Octavarium actually have fewer or shorter guitar solos than any of the Mangini era albums? I seem to recall that tracks 2, 3, 4 at the least either have no solo or have far more scaled back solo sections vs. album like DoT. Wouldn't that make them less influenced by Jazz according to your argument?
It's a bit rich to say/suggest that trading off solos is showing evidence of jazz influence. I mean, technically, any band that routinely solos might be able to claim that too-- even Slayer. That's not the type of influence we are talking about.
I don't know what else to say, other than you underestimate the scope of influence Jazz has had on music over the last 100+ years.
All the prog bands from the 70s that influenced DT were all listening to jazz and blues when they were growing up.
Iron Maiden and Slayer, two bands who also do the solo duels in their songs, were listening to early heavy metal and/or prog rock bands of the 70s, all of which were listening to heavy amounts of jazz and blues (Sabbath, Priest, Deep Purple, Genesis, Camel, The Doors, etc...)
The idea of taking a solo in rock music to begin with, comes a lot from Jazz and blues, from John Lee Hooker, to Charlie Christian.
But wait...if this is really a point about how jazz has influenced most music since the early 1900s (a point I am not disputing and with which I agree) because so many rock and metal bands have instrumental solos-- so it's really more about instrumentation and roles-- then how does that help your argument that the classic era ended with Octavarium? Do the Mangini era albums have fewer solos or fewer instances of dueling solos?
And I could be wrong on this, because I haven't listened to it in a while, but doesn't Octavarium actually have fewer or shorter guitar solos than any of the Mangini era albums? I seem to recall that tracks 2, 3, 4 at the least either have no solo or have far more scaled back solo sections vs. album like DoT. Wouldn't that make them less influenced by Jazz according to your argument?
I think you're combining two arguments I made that had little to do with each other. I admitted that there are some jazzy moments on ADTOE earlier, and duel solos still exist in the Mangini era. Octavarium was largely a reaction to ToT, lighter songs, lighter production, etc.. You're taking the "jazz influence" in DT's music too deep here. I merely said there was some jazz influence in DT's music, but there was less of it with each successive album, or at least the melting pot of their music was more homogenized (is that the right word?) by Octavarium.
Because, as I've stated before on this thread and elsewhere, the main component for DT's music since Ocatavarium is METAL, whereas before SC, metal was just 'one' of their musical ingredients for their songs, or overall musical landscape (production values, tones, etc..)
To me, metal was split evenly with prog, rock, fusion, and whatever else they would throw in. Now it's easily 60-80% metal dominating their sound. That is my perspective, as someone who doesn't listen to a lot of metal these days, so on the outside looking in, that is what it seems like to me and my ears.
About Scenes vs ToT.
I think you guys are mixing up "popular" with "critically acclaimed" though both terms are not always mutually exclusive, of course.
St. Anger is one of Metallica's most popular albums, because it's such an objectively bad album (no offense to anyone who enjoys it)
Everyone knows about St. Anger, along with Master of Puppets and TBA. Casual music listeners probably don't know Load/Reload or their last 2 albums as well as those albums.
ToT was really popular because it was something a lot of fans disliked, and the move to full-metal album was very controversial.
Looking at the sales numbers again, I see Scenes sold less in the US than FII as well, along with SDoIT and ToT.
ToT may have turned a lot of fans off as well, as Octavarium sold much less in the US compared to the previous albums, but later album sales could also be affected by illegal downloading, and eventually streaming. Again, this is why I wish we could look at overall sales around the world.
I think you're combining two arguments I made that had little to do with each other. I admitted that there are some jazzy moments on ADTOE earlier, and duel solos still exist in the Mangini era. Octavarium was largely a reaction to ToT, lighter songs, lighter production, etc.. You're taking the "jazz influence" in DT's music too deep here. I merely said there was some jazz influence in DT's music, but there was less of it with each successive album, or at least the melting pot of their music was more homogenized (is that the right word?) by Octavarium.
Awake wasn't based on metal? Scenes? They are both easily more metal than ADTOE and The Astonishing. Maybe even Distance Over Time.
Because, as I've stated before on this thread and elsewhere, the main component for DT's music since Ocatavarium is METAL, whereas before SC, metal was just 'one' of their musical ingredients for their songs, or overall musical landscape (production values, tones, etc..)
To me, metal was split evenly with prog, rock, fusion, and whatever else they would throw in. Now it's easily 60-80% metal dominating their sound. That is my perspective, as someone who doesn't listen to a lot of metal these days, so on the outside looking in, that is what it seems like to me and my ears.
Awake wasn't based on metal? Scenes? They are both easily more metal than ADTOE and The Astonishing. Maybe even Distance Over Time.
Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
WDaDU (76%), IaW (57%), Awake (71%), FII (32%), SfaM (54%), SDoIT (42%), ToT (95%), Octavarium (32%), SC (58%), BC&SL (61%), ADToE (47%), DT12 (58%), TA (42%), D/T (76%).
WDaDU (76%), IaW (57%), Awake (71%), FII (32%), SfaM (54%), SDoIT (42%), ToT (95%), Octavarium (32%), SC (58%), BC&SL (61%), ADToE (47%), DT12 (58%), TA (42%), D/T (76%).
Now THIS is quality DTF discourse. :corn :tup
WDaDU (76%), IaW (57%), Awake (71%), FII (32%), SfaM (54%), SDoIT (42%), ToT (95%), Octavarium (32%), SC (58%), BC&SL (61%), ADToE (47%), DT12 (58%), TA (42%), D/T (76%).
Now THIS is quality DTF discourse. :corn :tup
Agreed. But I feel that a meticulous description of the methodology is missing. :biggrin:
Based on the ToT score, I'm guessing he assigned a binary score of 1 or 0 where 1=metal and 0 = not metal, and multiplied it by the tracklength, then divided by total album length
Based on the ToT score, I'm guessing he assigned a binary score of 1 or 0 where 1=metal and 0 = not metal, and multiplied it by the tracklength, then divided by total album length
Pretty much. Not a perfect method in terms of how comprehensive it is, but I feel like it generally illustrates the point I'm getting at.
We can go even further.
0 points = Not metal in the slightest, not even hard rock
0.25 points = Has some louder moments, but not enough to truly qualify as "metal"
0.5 points = Definitely has metal elements, but they're outweighed by prog or other non-metal elements
0.75 points = Some fully-metal sections, but some extended sections that aren't metal
1 = MEEEHTAL :metal :metal
As I Am: 1
This Dying Soul: 1
Endless Sacrifice: 0.75
Honor Thy Father: 1
Vacant: 0
Stream Of Consciousness: 0.5
In The Name Of God: 1
We can go even further.
0 points = Not metal in the slightest, not even hard rock
0.25 points = Has some louder moments, but not enough to truly qualify as "metal"
0.5 points = Definitely has metal elements, but they're outweighed by prog or other non-metal elements
0.75 points = Some fully-metal sections, but some extended sections that aren't metal
1 = MEEEHTAL :metal :metal
As I Am: 1
This Dying Soul: 1
Endless Sacrifice: 0.75
Honor Thy Father: 1
Vacant: 0
Stream Of Consciousness: 0.5
In The Name Of God: 1
Not gonna lie, it'd be interesting to see where that'd lead. Maybe that's material for its own thread.
Sure sounds homogenous, doesn't it?
Not gonna lie, it'd be interesting to see where that'd lead. Maybe that's material for its own thread.
It would lead to discuss what is actually Metal and what it isn't :lol
I know I myself would argue it :mehlin
Just playing the run from Fall Into The Light to Out Of Reach will already give you six songs that have different styles.
About Scenes vs ToT.
I think you guys are mixing up "popular" with "critically acclaimed" though both terms are not always mutually exclusive, of course.
St. Anger is one of Metallica's most popular albums, because it's such an objectively bad album (no offense to anyone who enjoys it)
Everyone knows about St. Anger, along with Master of Puppets and TBA. Casual music listeners probably don't know Load/Reload or their last 2 albums as well as those albums.
off-topic completely but...Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I Walk Beside You is close to You Not Me at the bottom of the well, to me. There are not many DT songs I skip but for these both I make an exception. Unreal to see one of them at someone else's top-pick.
Totally. It'd be an interesting experiment but there's really no good way to objectively qualify what's "metal" and what isn't; I was just very entertained at the concept of assigning a "metal percentage" to each album and wanted to see how much further that could be taken. :lol
I will say though, I am completely baffled by anyone who argues that SC or BC&SL are heavier or more metal-focused than ToT. ToT is, by a significant margin, their heaviest album due to how unrelenting it is apart from Vacant (which is only two minutes) and SoC (which I'd argue is still heavier than the majority of songs from their first six albums).
If you take away the onvious outliers on the Astonishing (which, by the way, still sounds a lot like ‘Dream Theater’), yes.
Part of me was hoping that the band would go for an outside producer for this album to mix things up a little bit.while not an outside producer strictly speaking, I'm sure Andy Sneap did just that.
Part of me was hoping that the band would go for an outside producer for this album to mix things up a little bit.while not an outside producer strictly speaking, I'm sure Andy Sneap did just that.
The advantage of an outside producer is they can often get artists to think outside the box and get then to try things that they might not on their own.
Part of me was hoping that the band would go for an outside producer for this album to mix things up a little bit.while not an outside producer strictly speaking, I'm sure Andy Sneap did just that.
The advantage of an outside producer is they can often get artists to think outside the box and get then to try things that they might not on their own.
Precisely this.
The advantage of an outside producer is they can often get artists to think outside the box and get then to try things that they might not on their own.
Precisely this.
And they're also not personally attached to the music, so they can listen with fresh ears and bring an unbiased opinion as to how things sound/work for the songs.
WDaDU (76%), IaW (57%), Awake (71%), FII (32%), SfaM (54%), SDoIT (42%), ToT (95%), Octavarium (32%), SC (58%), BC&SL (61%), ADToE (47%), DT12 (58%), TA (42%), D/T (76%).
Now THIS is quality DTF discourse. :corn :tup
Agreed. But I feel that a meticulous description of the methodology is missing. :biggrin:
WDaDU (76%), IaW (57%), Awake (71%), FII (32%), SfaM (54%), SDoIT (42%), ToT (95%), Octavarium (32%), SC (58%), BC&SL (61%), ADToE (47%), DT12 (58%), TA (42%), D/T (76%).
Now THIS is quality DTF discourse. :corn :tup
Agreed. But I feel that a meticulous description of the methodology is missing. :biggrin:
To be more precise, it's that modern metal sound they've been doing since literally Systematic Chaos that I'm talking about. The last 6 albums vary from each other in that regard, the band still obviously have a diverse pallette even in the Mangini era, but I'd call them all more metal albums than the first 8 (sans ToT, but that album is also a different kind of metal, just like WDaDU is often 80s hair metal meets Rush)
IaW is metallic progressive music with production values reflecting the time it was recorded.
Awake is heavier and more metal than previous album, but there is tons of lighter (and jazzier!) moments, and still metallic progressive music.
FII is lighter again, more than IaW, but now has really good, timeless production values (though I like IaW's production)
SFAM is heavier again, but no more metal than Awake. Production is 'meh' but not bad for JP and MP's first time.
SDoIT is not really any heavier than SFAM, except TGP. Production is pretty good again.
ToT is heaviness cranked up, an album of Glass Prisons, essentially, pushing the nu metal + thrash sound. Production is perfect for what they did here.
Octavarium much lighter, I'd argue their lightest album, the least metal album besides FII.
From here forward, the heaviness or metal element is the dominant sound, always present, it's a matter of degree. The production values reflect that as well, sounding like the band wants to stay current with other heavy music, but there are also some very mixed and questionable production choices as well.
The only real exception to this, to me, is BC&SL, particularly the back half of the album, but I think the whole album kicks ass. It's varied, covers a lot of musical ground, and while it may be a little clunky on a few occasions, and most of the vocal melodies often double what the other instruments are playing, I thought it was a return to form for them, a big improvement over Systematic Chaos. When ADTOE came out, I thought it was great, and I still think it's the best Mangini era album, but each album has been disappointing for me since. This might be because ADTOE was the album where they were more concerned with proving they could still put out a killer album without Portnoy. While I find some of the album to be calling back to former glories like IaW and other 90s DT elements, it's both the least formulaic "normal" DT album in the Mangini era.
The songs don't resemble IaW to me. The track list order has some similarities in some ways, and maybe the opener OTBOA has some similarities in its structure to Pull Me Under.
Other than that, the compositions themselves are way more interesting to me than most songs on the last 3 albums. The album flows very well, which I can't say for the last 3 albums either. The production on ADTOE doesn't bother me so much as long as I can turn the volume up really loud.
Rick Ruin :rollin
The songs don't resemble IaW to me. The track list order has some similarities in some ways, and maybe the opener OTBOA has some similarities in its structure to Pull Me Under.
Other than that, the compositions themselves are way more interesting to me than most songs on the last 3 albums. The album flows very well, which I can't say for the last 3 albums either. The production on ADTOE doesn't bother me so much as long as I can turn the volume up really loud.
I mean...yes ATBOA but also LNF is pretty obviously similar to UAGM and BAI to LTL
To be more precise, it's that modern metal sound they've been doing since literally Systematic Chaos that I'm talking about. The last 6 albums vary from each other in that regard, the band still obviously have a diverse pallette even in the Mangini era, but I'd call them all more metal albums than the first 8 (sans ToT, but that album is also a different kind of metal, just like WDaDU is often 80s hair metal meets Rush)
IaW is metallic progressive music with production values reflecting the time it was recorded.
Awake is heavier and more metal than previous album, but there is tons of lighter (and jazzier!) moments, and still metallic progressive music.
FII is lighter again, more than IaW, but now has really good, timeless production values (though I like IaW's production)
SFAM is heavier again, but no more metal than Awake. Production is 'meh' but not bad for JP and MP's first time.
SDoIT is not really any heavier than SFAM, except TGP. Production is pretty good again.
ToT is heaviness cranked up, an album of Glass Prisons, essentially, pushing the nu metal + thrash sound. Production is perfect for what they did here.
From here forward, the heaviness or metal element is the dominant sound, always present, it's a matter of degree. The production values reflect that as well, sounding like the band wants to stay current with other heavy music, but there are also some very mixed and questionable production choices as well.
While I find some of the album to be calling back to former glories like IaW and other 90s DT elements, it's both the least formulaic "normal" DT album in the Mangini era.
In Theory that's what Rick Ruin does. He drops by the bands studio once a month or so and can get a fresh take on it.
In practice - he just turns up - says YES or NO - then distorts the shit out of it then fucks off again.
Rick Ruin didn't produce Death magnetic - Greg Fidelman did. Rick just takes all the credit for basically saying " write like when you were good see you in a month ".
Corey taylor said he'll never work with rick again cause he's just never there.
Glasser, and others who've heard the album, did you like the production of the new album?
Glasser, and others who've heard the album, did you like the production of the new album?
Sneap CRUSHED it! It’s PERFECT and I rarely use that word.
Glasser, and others who've heard the album, did you like the production of the new album?
Sneap CRUSHED it! It’s PERFECT and I rarely use that word.
Really? I say CRUSHED all the time..
I bought a PERFECT can of CRUSHED tomatoes.
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
This thread is officially in for the 'most derailed topic in the history of DTF'award
:lol :lol
:lol :lol
More specifically, Rick “Ruin” bought the 2 CRUSHED cans of PERFECT tomatoes.
:lol :lol
More specifically, Rick “Ruin” bought the 2 CRUSHED cans of PERFECT tomatoes.
His pen name is Miriam.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31ajWjUfcqL._SX325_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I agree a great song is a great song. Speaking of that, Answering The Call may be one of your favorite songs on DT15 ;)
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I agree a great song is a great song. Speaking of that, Answering The Call may be one of your favorite songs on DT15 ;)
Oh. I like I Walk Beside You and it's poppy feeling. Are you saying that Answering the Call is poppy? I won't complain if that's the case.
...and Mickey D's!Rick Donald’s!!!!
(https://images.firstwefeast.com/complex/image/upload/c_limit,f_auto,fl_lossy,q_auto,w_768/zjwl2tfo4dxcrnevicqt)
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I agree a great song is a great song. Speaking of that, Answering The Call may be one of your favorite songs on DT15 ;)
Oh. I like I Walk Beside You and it's poppy feeling. Are you saying that Answering the Call is poppy? I won't complain if that's the case.
Very catchy, should I dare say straightforward…. Heavy riff yet Radio friendly.
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I agree a great song is a great song. Speaking of that, Answering The Call may be one of your favorite songs on DT15 ;)
Oh. I like I Walk Beside You and it's poppy feeling. Are you saying that Answering the Call is poppy? I won't complain if that's the case.
Very catchy, should I dare say straightforward…. Heavy riff yet Radio friendly.
Any memorable guitar solos on the album?
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I agree a great song is a great song. Speaking of that, Answering The Call may be one of your favorite songs on DT15 ;)
Oh. I like I Walk Beside You and it's poppy feeling. Are you saying that Answering the Call is poppy? I won't complain if that's the case.
Very catchy, should I dare say straightforward…. Heavy riff yet Radio friendly.
Any memorable guitar solos on the album?
Absolutely. Memorable like Goodnight Kiss, no. Under A Glass Moon, no.
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I agree a great song is a great song. Speaking of that, Answering The Call may be one of your favorite songs on DT15 ;)
Oh. I like I Walk Beside You and it's poppy feeling. Are you saying that Answering the Call is poppy? I won't complain if that's the case.
Very catchy, should I dare say straightforward…. Heavy riff yet Radio friendly.
Any memorable guitar solos on the album?
Absolutely. Memorable like Goodnight Kiss, no. Under A Glass Moon, no.
Illumination Theory or A View From the Top of the World?
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I agree a great song is a great song. Speaking of that, Answering The Call may be one of your favorite songs on DT15 ;)
Oh. I like I Walk Beside You and it's poppy feeling. Are you saying that Answering the Call is poppy? I won't complain if that's the case.
Very catchy, should I dare say straightforward…. Heavy riff yet Radio friendly.
Any memorable guitar solos on the album?
Absolutely. Memorable like Goodnight Kiss, no. Under A Glass Moon, no.
Illumination Theory or A View From the Top of the World?
Illumination Theory.
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I agree a great song is a great song. Speaking of that, Answering The Call may be one of your favorite songs on DT15 ;)
Oh. I like I Walk Beside You and it's poppy feeling. Are you saying that Answering the Call is poppy? I won't complain if that's the case.
Very catchy, should I dare say straightforward…. Heavy riff yet Radio friendly.
Any memorable guitar solos on the album?
Absolutely. Memorable like Goodnight Kiss, no. Under A Glass Moon, no.
Illumination Theory or A View From the Top of the World?
Illumination Theory.
Understood. That's a really high bar to leap, so I have to have realistic expectations. For me, the only comparable length song that can compete with Illumination Theory is Change of Seasons. I hope we won't be disappointed by the title track given how much of the album length it takes.
Is DT15 your favorite of the Mangini era albums?
The title track is a grower which to me is a good thing. It’s different from any other of their epics. Honestly, my favorite Mangini era album is ADTOE but the new one is easily my second fave musically. The production on AVFTTOTW is easily their best IMO.
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I agree a great song is a great song. Speaking of that, Answering The Call may be one of your favorite songs on DT15 ;)
Oh. I like I Walk Beside You and it's poppy feeling. Are you saying that Answering the Call is poppy? I won't complain if that's the case.
Very catchy, should I dare say straightforward…. Heavy riff yet Radio friendly.
Any memorable guitar solos on the album?
Absolutely. Memorable like Goodnight Kiss, no. Under A Glass Moon, no.
Illumination Theory or A View From the Top of the World?
Illumination Theory.
Understood. That's a really high bar to leap, so I have to have realistic expectations. For me, the only comparable length song that can compete with Illumination Theory is Change of Seasons. I hope we won't be disappointed by the title track given how much of the album length it takes.
Is DT15 your favorite of the Mangini era albums?
The title track is a grower which to me is a good thing. It’s different from any other of their epics. Honestly, my favorite Mangini era album is ADTOE but the new one is easily my second fave musically. The production on AVFTTOTW is easily their best IMO.
Not a big fan of "These Walls". Sounds like DT going commercial and JP sounds uninspired for the first time in DT history.
To me Octavarium was the first time I was like "This is Dream Theater?" The album has grown on me through the years and I do actually listen to it a fair amount but I was incredibly disappointed when it first came out.
Train of Thought isn't my favorite album but it still sounded inspired and like Dream Theater was moving the needle.
Octavarium through ADTOE sounded like a band going through the motions to me.
Now before anyone freaks out ....Dream Theater "going through the motions" is still arguably a top 10 band for me. It just wasn't the brilliance and magic we had on the preceding albums.
The Astonishing and DOT brought some of that magic back IMO and I am extremely excited for the new album.
As if "going commercial" is this awful thing. Writing good songs and sorta a good thing, right? Being a fan of DT for 30 years now, my favorite DT song is "I Walk Beside You," which is their least prog song by a mile.
I agree a great song is a great song. Speaking of that, Answering The Call may be one of your favorite songs on DT15 ;)
Oh. I like I Walk Beside You and it's poppy feeling. Are you saying that Answering the Call is poppy? I won't complain if that's the case.
Very catchy, should I dare say straightforward…. Heavy riff yet Radio friendly.
Any memorable guitar solos on the album?
Absolutely. Memorable like Goodnight Kiss, no. Under A Glass Moon, no.
Illumination Theory or A View From the Top of the World?
Illumination Theory.
Understood. That's a really high bar to leap, so I have to have realistic expectations. For me, the only comparable length song that can compete with Illumination Theory is Change of Seasons. I hope we won't be disappointed by the title track given how much of the album length it takes.
Is DT15 your favorite of the Mangini era albums?
The title track is a grower which to me is a good thing. It’s different from any other of their epics. Honestly, my favorite Mangini era album is ADTOE but the new one is easily my second fave musically. The production on AVFTTOTW is easily their best IMO.
Interesting. Why is it a grower if you don't mind my asking?
Sorry for so many rapid fire questions but please understand it's been weeks since we've had any music (and might have to go another 4) so I am totally blue balled right now :rollin
[...]
So, possibly controversial opinion here (less to rebut and more to just offer my own perspective on this, having spent 4 years studying mixing in a fair amount of detail, though would by no means call myself an expert):
Am I the only one who doesn't get the appeal of Kevin Shirley's mixes? The three factors that I feel identify them are mud, compression and a certain flatness. I think they sound fine in mellower moments like Hollow Years (even if I think James' vocals sound way too muffled on the album as a whole) and the first few minutes of Blind Faith. However, MP's snare at its loudest tends to be like half-way towards the kind of nauseating ringing (admittedly somewhat of a contemporary staple in a lot of alt rock / nu metal / alt metal at the time, possibly in part because that was when the loudness war really started kicking in, but I could be wrong) that defines the St Anger snare and the kick is compressed to the point of clipping in all of these. Today, I put Six Degrees up against the Apple Music master of Distance Over Time and... the latter smoked the former. Far more space and clarity, no clipping and a real sense of weight and punchiness. It was like going from two dimensions to three. Even Images and Words, despite its dated qualities, really benefits from the extra dynamics, separation and ambience that might put it over any Shirley mix imo.
[...]
St Anger is not that bad if you just turn the snare wires on.
Here's another one for Glasser, as I'm listening and admiring the alien - is mangini really strong on the new album as he is on alien?
I'm just struck by the fact that his work on alien is particularly great. Others have pointed this out
I'm just struck by the fact that his work on alien is particularly great. Others have pointed this out
He’s a monster on the entire album. He’s been a member for a while now and this album really showcases how they have all gelled together and vibe off each other so effortlessly. This album is special on every level. I can’t wait to read everyone’s take on it.
Trying to get hyped for this album but I can't. Still not a fan of The Alien.
The internet does love Hyperbole.
St Angry the worst album of all the historyyyyyy!!!
Er no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w02O-XdsXE
^ Listen to that for as long as you can stand it - then click on this immediately afterwards - - > https://youtu.be/QcHvzNBtlOw?t=122
Trying to get hyped for this album but I can't. Still not a fan of The Alien.
Damn that's rough. I've been listening since it came out and still find it awesome
Same, same
Same, same
To be serious though, I wish I loved it, but I don't. It's not a big deal to me. I'll still buy the album on the day and spin it and see. Maybe a second single might change my mind.
Same, same
To be serious though, I wish I loved it, but I don't. It's not a big deal to me. I'll still buy the album on the day and spin it and see. Maybe a second single might change my mind.
Name one DT album that you love every song equally. DT screwed this up BIG in my opinion. They should have released a good trailer of the album and not a single. This is not a Taylor Swift album. Progressive technical music should not be promoted the same as pop or any other genre. I judge an album in it’s entirety. The Alien is a piece of the puzzle and puzzles make sense and are better completed. This is how I personally feel on this.
Same, same
To be serious though, I wish I loved it, but I don't. It's not a big deal to me. I'll still buy the album on the day and spin it and see. Maybe a second single might change my mind.
Name one DT album that you love every song equally. DT screwed this up BIG in my opinion. They should have released a good trailer of the album and not a single. This is not a Taylor Swift album. Progressive technical music should not be promoted the same as pop or any other genre. I judge an album in it’s entirety. The Alien is a piece of the puzzle and puzzles make sense and are better completed. This is how I personally feel on this.
Invisible Monster or Behind the Veil?
Name one DT album that you love every song equally. DT screwed this up BIG in my opinion. They should have released a good trailer of the album and not a single. This is not a Taylor Swift album. Progressive technical music should not be promoted the same as pop or any other genre. The Alien is a piece of the puzzle and puzzles make sense and are better completed. This is how I personally feel on this. I believe if the album was heard from 1-7 from the start each track would be appreciated as part of a bigger picture, a complete picture.
[...]
So, possibly controversial opinion here (less to rebut and more to just offer my own perspective on this, having spent 4 years studying mixing in a fair amount of detail, though would by no means call myself an expert):
Am I the only one who doesn't get the appeal of Kevin Shirley's mixes? The three factors that I feel identify them are mud, compression and a certain flatness. I think they sound fine in mellower moments like Hollow Years (even if I think James' vocals sound way too muffled on the album as a whole) and the first few minutes of Blind Faith. However, MP's snare at its loudest tends to be like half-way towards the kind of nauseating ringing (admittedly somewhat of a contemporary staple in a lot of alt rock / nu metal / alt metal at the time, possibly in part because that was when the loudness war really started kicking in, but I could be wrong) that defines the St Anger snare and the kick is compressed to the point of clipping in all of these. Today, I put Six Degrees up against the Apple Music master of Distance Over Time and... the latter smoked the former. Far more space and clarity, no clipping and a real sense of weight and punchiness. It was like going from two dimensions to three. Even Images and Words, despite its dated qualities, really benefits from the extra dynamics, separation and ambience that might put it over any Shirley mix imo.
[...]
I completely agree with this. Hot take, but I think even St. Anger (drums and overall sound) sounds better than the Shirley streak of albums (I'm listening to St. Anger right now, by the way).
The internet does love Hyperbole.
St Angry the worst album of all the historyyyyyy!!!
Er no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w02O-XdsXE
^ Listen to that for as long as you can stand it - then click on this immediately afterwards - - > https://youtu.be/QcHvzNBtlOw?t=122
Should have picked bad music, Metal Machine Music is unironically great; good Drone borderline Noise, despite being an effort at pissing off a label :lol
Name one DT album that you love every song equally. DT screwed this up BIG in my opinion. They should have released a good trailer of the album and not a single. This is not a Taylor Swift album. Progressive technical music should not be promoted the same as pop or any other genre. The Alien is a piece of the puzzle and puzzles make sense and are better completed. This is how I personally feel on this. I believe if the album was heard from 1-7 from the start, each track would be appreciated as part of a bigger picture, a complete picture.
Name one DT album that you love every song equally. DT screwed this up BIG in my opinion. They should have released a good trailer of the album and not a single. This is not a Taylor Swift album. Progressive technical music should not be promoted the same as pop or any other genre. The Alien is a piece of the puzzle and puzzles make sense and are better completed. This is how I personally feel on this. I believe if the album was heard from 1-7 from the start, each track would be appreciated as part of a bigger picture, a complete picture.
Didn't they release a trailer of their new album on their YT channel?
Didn't anyone watched/listened to it?I didn't because i want to listen to the whole thing all at once upon its release,
but it's strange that no one mentioned it.
apparently we may not be getting another single
Same, same
To be serious though, I wish I loved it, but I don't. It's not a big deal to me. I'll still buy the album on the day and spin it and see. Maybe a second single might change my mind.
Name one DT album that you love every song equally. DT screwed this up BIG in my opinion. They should have released a good trailer of the album and not a single. This is not a Taylor Swift album. Progressive technical music should not be promoted the same as pop or any other genre. I judge an album in it’s entirety. The Alien is a piece of the puzzle and puzzles make sense and are better completed. This is how I personally feel on this.
Invisible Monster or Behind the Veil?
Surrender To Reason. Seriously… Invisible Monster.
Sucks the song is overcompressed and sounds bland on everything else.
Name one DT album that you love every song equally.
If you take away the onvious outliers on the Astonishing (which, by the way, still sounds a lot like ‘Dream Theater’), yes.
I mean, I don't know. Even if I took away The Astonishing from that list... that leaves us with 17 different styles I listed. I even forgot a few, like the way they play with ambient music on Behind the Veil and Illumination Theory. Good luck even getting most prog bands (particularly those on the more metal end) to cover elements of over a dozen different styles over four albums. Bands like Haken, Between the Buried and Me and Native Construct that actually manage to do that while maintaining a significant audience are quite a rare breed. I would also propose that the diversions sounding like Dream Theater kind of means that the integration is working. If you're able to blend all of those elements in a way that it's still identifiable as you, then you've done a good job it making it all your own rather than just imitating.
Let's take Scenes as a reference point, it has acoustic / piano balladry (Regression, Through My Words), melodic prog metal (Strange Deja Vu), gospel / spiritual music (The Spirit Carries On, which I also missed as an element for The Bigger Picture and possibly This is the Life), ragtime (The Dance of Eternity... for like a few seconds), more kinda middle eastern vibes (Home, though also forgot for Lost Not Forgotten and Outcry), kinda... modern RnB ballad type stuff in the vein of Sade or someting (Through Her Eyes), jazz fusion style workouts (Beyond This Life), bits of musical theatre (Fatal Tragedy, One Last Time and Finally Free), a bit of bluesy hard rock in the vein of Deep Purple (the verse after the first solo in Beyond This Life) and prog rock (Finally Free).
Give this to someone who knows the band from Images alone and I'd still bet they'd feel like it sounds like Dream Theater, even as it switches between around 10 styles. From my estimation too, DT12 (an album that tends to be regarded as having a bit less variety than usual, from what I can tell), still hosts around 7 fairly concrete different styles (which ADToE also roughly has, give or take a few), which even classifies metal as a singular one. If I acknowledged the kind of variety that metal has in its subgenres, then it'd be even more.
I wonder if it's just that DT's modern brand of eclecticism tends to blend styles within the tracks (like the acoustic break in Fall Into the Light or the ambient / film score intro to Behind the Veil) and not necessarily always dedicate full tracks to stuff outside their usual stylistic centre. I still don't think that discounts the variety that's there though and hardly makes things homogenous when put in perspective. I think the only way DT might seem that way is if someone is going in with the expectation of Queen, King Crimson or The Beatles where depending on the album, each song almost sounds like a different band. Even in the 90s, that didn't really happen to that degree. Falling Into Infinity has a firmly identifiable sound to it from tracks like New Milennium, Lines in the Sand and Just Let Me Breathe affirming that.
Even from a bird's eye view, not thinking in terms of small scale genre integration, I don't think it can reasonably be said that DT have coasted on the same kind of album either... unless "same kind of album" literally means "progressive metal that is identifiable as Dream Theater". ADToE was a highly dynamic album with a very natural ebb and flow and vast song structures, DT12 tightened the lengths to deliver hookier tracks with an increased highlighting of symphonic and grandiose elments, TA went pretty much fully into musical theatre territory and D/T zeroed in on a more stripped down and aggressive sound that had a lot of more harmonically tense / edgier content.
Oh,and Glasser.You said the album is MASSIVE and EPIC.But then again you also said it's your second fave album of MM era.
Isn't it a little contradictory?
apparently we may not be getting another single
???? The new single will be released this week
apparently we may not be getting another single
Name one DT album that you love every song equally.
apparently we may not be getting another single
???? The new single will be released this week
You state this as if it's fact, but where has this been confirmed?
Is there any reason for them to release singles at this point? They're not getting on the radio and any "videos" they release don't actually have them in it.
That's not up to them to decide. It's all InsideOut. Ideally I want 0 singles so I can hear 7 new songs on October 22. But InsideOut always puts out 3 singles
That's not up to them to decide. It's all InsideOut. Ideally I want 0 singles so I can hear 7 new songs on October 22. But InsideOut always puts out 3 singles
You know you can just not listen to singles, right?
apparently we may not be getting another single
Agree, but let's not go too far overboard with claiming all those songs belong to different genres simpluy they incorporate elements from other styles. The general sound palette is similar throughout all their songs and some of the various substyles you've named are really not far removed from 'progressive metal' in general. Dream Theater are indeed also not unique in doing this and whether they're able to 'maintain a significant audience' is not really relevant.
And this is where I really start to lose you, because to me it doesn't matter one bit. This looks like desperately searching for different genres in music where they simply aren't. Dream Theater are still a progressive metal band and they simply take some elements from other styles to use. The core sound is still progressive metal (which can get sort-of diverse anyway), even if they do employ ragtime ('... for like a few seconds'). I also don't see a need for distinction between 'melodic prog metal', 'bits of musical theatre' or 'bluesy hard rock', since all those examples come from the same album and are actually quite similar. There's no need to go overboard with genre-tags here.
Good luck even getting most prog bands (particularly those on the more metal end) to cover elements of over a dozen different styles over four albums.
But it doesn't 'switch between 10 styles' at all (and neither does Images & Words). And don;t get me started on 'subgenres'. The need to categorise everything is really pointless, especially in this context. If anything, Dream Theater stay really true to their own style indeed, which is progressive metal with hints and small steps to other kinds of music.
I personally don't think Dream Theater, especially on their newer (read, everything since 8VM) albums, sounds 'eclectic' at all.
I think Dream Theater's song were more diverse, or more playful, or blended more different styles, or had more unusual song-writing approaches on earlier records indeed.
Many people blame Portnoy's departure for this, but looking back, I think this 'decline'* started with Train of Thought, their first album that actually went for a certain sound and went all the way to achieve that. Ever since, I feel like DT's music is more guitar-riff-based than a group-effort. Ever since, I feel like DT's music is more guitar-riff-based than a group-effort. Instead of interesting instrumental sections, the band opts for trade-off solos far more often. The result is more simple songs, less interplay between instruments (for example the instrumental sections in Metropolis, Beyond This Life, etc.), less interesting vocal lines and an overall 'dumbing-down'* of their music. I will say here that ADTOE and their vast song structures (see next quoted part) is indeed an exception!
* don't quote me on this for using these particular words, it's for lack of a better term.
Okay, so Dream Theater are pretty diverse.. depending on your frame of reference. I'm not saying I'm an expert and that you should listen to me, but a lot of metal bands (Dream Theater included) have a very narrow sound palette, so in the grand scheme of things, yes, Dream Theater have been doing the same thing (which is making good progressive metal albums).
I think we can safely state though that compared to the average metal band, Dream Theater's sound palette is a bit wider, but that's likely also the case why a lot of us on this forums are/were drawn towards them in the first place.
The only real outlier here, I think, is The Astonishing, which while stylistically not even THAT much different from earlier stuff, was different enough for lots of people to dislike it. That said, there's also a lot of people who love it. It's a polarising album, and I think that's the case because it's different. (On further thought, you might say the same about Train of Thought as well, actually).
tl;dr:[/i] I enjoy DT, but let's not pretend they play many different styles of music simply because they occasionally employ fragments of other genres in their music. I try to explain as a response to Enigmachine's post why I feel DT's sound has become more predictable and less adventurous in more recent years.
apparently we may not be getting another single
Is there any reason for them to release singles at this point? They're not getting on the radio and any "videos" they release don't actually have them in it.
Apologies in advance for all the text. (TLDR to Elite: We're talking past each other and I don't feel like you grapsed the point of what I was saying, so let's please just stop before this conversation gets even messier)
[...]
Anyway, I only responded because I feel like my points were being misrepresented and I wanted to set things straight (and if it was something like the quote above, I likely wouldn't have), but I really don't want this chain to carry on further. Let's just amicably move on without stringing this conversation along this irrelevant tangent (and I recognise that I am to blame here in large part, due to these lengthy explanations of off topic issues).
Thanks for responding. Sorry for being slightly blunt here and there. In general, I actually think we agree on quite a lot of points, maybe personal preferences for specific albums aside. Your post actually articulated quite some things better than I could do (and did in the - admittedly hastily written - post you quoted) and reading some of my words back in the parts you quoted makes it seem like an incoherent post as a whole, so that's a note to myself to proof-read better. Please know that I didn't respond to be belligerent or 'witty' or whatever, but because I enjoy these almost nerdy in depth exchanges about musical material.
Name one DT album that you love every song equally.
Awake
Images
That's not up to them to decide. It's all InsideOut. Ideally I want 0 singles so I can hear 7 new songs on October 22. But InsideOut always puts out 3 singles
You know you can just not listen to singles, right?
This.
But I don't over listen to them. I've listened to Alien in full about 5 times in total.
I’m always torn on that line of reasoning because I tend to gravitate towards bands that always do something very different.
I think it was Alex Lifeson who, in speaking about the style change from MP to Signals, said something along the lines of “as soon as we felt like we had succeeded at a certain sound, we immediately knew it was time to do something else.” (I’m paraphrasing from memory, but it was something like that.)
That’s why I LOVE Rush. Because the S/T sounds like a completely different band than 2112, which sounds like a totally different band than Moving Pictures, which sounded like a totally different band than Power Windows, which sounded like a totally different band than Clockwork Angels.
Haken is another one. Visions felt like a pure DT homage album, so for the next album they knocked it out of the park doing something completely different…which was subsequently followed up by something that bordered on alienating fans of the previous two albums.
I still love Pain of Salvation because their “core sound” keeps shifting around to the point that I don’t know that they have a “core sound” anymore beyond the label of “interesting”
And I’ve only just started to get into King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard who have done a thrash album, and a psychedelic pop album (along with a handful of other genres)…not having a “core sound” makes it more interesting somehow.
You were intentionally listening to St Anger? :lol
Any music that is described as “drone” or “noise”…I’m out
Any music that is described as “drone” or “noise”…I’m out
Your loss :mehlin
apparently we may not be getting another single
???? The new single will be released this week
Name one DT album that you love every song equally.
Awake
Images
Name one DT album that you love every song equally.
Awake
Images
See, I told you you couldn’t name one.
Name one DT album that you love every song equally.
Awake
Images
See, I told you you couldn’t name one.
Glasser - Awaken the Master or Bridges in the Sky?
Same, same
To be serious though, I wish I loved it, but I don't. It's not a big deal to me. I'll still buy the album on the day and spin it and see. Maybe a second single might change my mind.
Name one DT album that you love every song equally. DT screwed this up BIG in my opinion. They should have released a good trailer of the album and not a single. This is not a Taylor Swift album. Progressive technical music should not be promoted the same as pop or any other genre. I judge an album in it’s entirety. The Alien is a piece of the puzzle and puzzles make sense and are better completed. This is how I personally feel on this.
Invisible Monster or Behind the Veil?
Surrender To Reason. Seriously… Invisible Monster.
Since some people believe Invisible Monster will be a single, could you possibly give us a short description of the song?
D/T production vs. new album production
D/T JP vs. new album JP
D/T Labrie vs new album Labrie
D/T JR vs new album JR
D/T Myung vs new album Myung
D/T MM vs new album MM
D/T overall vs new album overall
what's the level of cheese on the album?
no
D/T production vs. new album production
D/T JP vs. new album JP
D/T Labrie vs new album Labrie
D/T JR vs new album JR
D/T Myung vs new album Myung
D/T MM vs new album MM
D/T overall vs new album overall
Anyone else want the answer to these? :lol
I'm excited as well, but I have not listened to the alien (and won't a second single either, if there is one) as this time i want the full experience on release day. I personally don't want the whole thing ruined before release.
D/T production vs. new album production
D/T JP vs. new album JP
D/T Labrie vs new album Labrie
D/T JR vs new album JR
D/T Myung vs new album Myung
D/T MM vs new album MM
D/T overall vs new album overall
Anyone else want the answer to these? :lol
I'm excited as well, but I have not listened to the alien (and won't a second single either, if there is one) as this time i want the full experience on release day. I personally don't want the whole thing ruined before release.
I've not listened to it, either. And I actually feel no desire, or need, to. That's not say I'm not looking forward to the album because I am; I guess I personally am just not as obsessive about DT as I was back in the mid-2000s when I went to multiple shows on each tour, went across to the US and Italy to watch them, bought every single related release etc.
And, as you say, it's only four weeks away. Maybe it's because I'm relatively old now but four weeks will pass in the blink of an eye. Which is both :biggrin: and :sad:
He's asking for comparisons between the last album (Distance Over Time) and the current album, in those various categories.
D/T production vs. new album production
D/T JP vs. new album JP
D/T Labrie vs new album Labrie
D/T JR vs new album JR
D/T Myung vs new album Myung
D/T MM vs new album MM
D/T overall vs new album overall
Anyone else want the answer to these? :lol
I don't understand the question, frankly.
New single Invisible Monster out in NZ.
Any music that is described as “drone” or “noise”…I’m out
Your loss :mehlin
I’m okay with that. :lol
New single Invisible Monster out in NZ.
30 second teaser on YouTube
I dont want to make too many judgements based on 30 seconds of music, but was a little taken back by how blatantly close that guitar riff sounds to Scenes Overture
The single sounds like a mixture of so many past DT tunes that I am quite baffled to be honest figuring out which songs they remind me. The start of vocal melody is really cool, but later it just becomes an Outcry+ Moment of Betrayal+ some other Astonishin hodgepodge, particularly the middle section of the vocal lines appeared quite lacking. I am really hating this 'old dream theater' sounding parts, more than inspiration they sound hollow, I mean, come on, within a 7 minutish song I can recognize so many past dt songs that, ah whatever. This song has some exciting sections of brilliant music dotted with so many dt references that I am not sure how to feel about the Invisible Monster (A snake devouring its own tail, much?)
I think it's pretty good. The riffs are really good, and the snare is iconic. I enjoy it way more than AJFA and their debut together, to be honest.
It's a bit short... 30 seconds ? And James is in the video why?? :tdwnWell he is part of Dream Theater, so there's that.. ;D
Has anyone noticed that in LTE3 there is a bonus track called View from the Mountaintop?
View from the Mountaintop......A view from the top of the World...
I wonder if you can have 19/28 as a time sig.
Mangini would
" I write 4/4 as 19/28 - such that each septuplet is rpko pgjpobj \fpbajue`\br[jkg[bn fgsdj vpbfj *static noises*
I did a 3 year music degree and i've never heard of a nested tuplet.
Is there a cream for it ?
Youtube will do that as well. The compression is outrageous.
To me, it sounds like a blatantly obvious nod to overture 1928. :coolio
Youtube will do that as well. The compression is outrageous.
Does Spotify do it too?
Youtube will do that as well. The compression is outrageous.
Does Spotify do it too?
It's nowhere near as bad. Spotify is always much crisper than YouTube.
You guys describing the music on the new album as bits and pieces
of other Mangini-era DT "but with better production" just sounds like it's going to be DoT II, a rather bland and boring DT album imo.
The only similarity I see to Overture 1928 is how the riff is accented on the downbeat of the first beat, the upbeat of the second beat, and the downbeat of the fourth.
Other than that, everything else including chord progression and notes are completely different
You guys describing the music on the new album as bits and pieces
of other Mangini-era DT "but with better production" just sounds like it's going to be DoT II, a rather bland and boring DT album imo.
The only similarity I see to Overture 1928 is how the riff is accented on the downbeat of the first beat, the upbeat of the second beat, and the downbeat of the fourth.
Other than that, everything else including chord progression and notes are completely different
You guys describing the music on the new album as bits and pieces
of other Mangini-era DT "but with better production" just sounds like it's going to be DoT II, a rather bland and boring DT album imo.
I did a 3 year music degree and i've never heard of a nested tuplet.
Is there a cream for it ?
I did a 3 year music degree and i've never heard of a nested tuplet.
Is there a cream for it ?
You guys describing the music on the new album as bits and pieces
of other Mangini-era DT "but with better production" just sounds like it's going to be DoT II, a rather bland and boring DT album imo.
What makes DoT bland? Just curious.
You guys describing the music on the new album as bits and pieces
of other Mangini-era DT "but with better production" just sounds like it's going to be DoT II, a rather bland and boring DT album imo.
Do you really have any realistic expectations of liking the next album?
You guys describing the music on the new album as bits and pieces
of other Mangini-era DT "but with better production" just sounds like it's going to be DoT II, a rather bland and boring DT album imo.
Do you really have any realistic expectations of liking the next album?
Things I've read about The Alien tells me yes, things I've read about the new single says no.
Ha! Indeed that outro from S2N has TDEN written all over it. It's like they said in the studio "let's do the darkest heaviest riff in DT history part 2",, then Jordan improvises a solo the whole way through. :lolYou guys describing the music on the new album as bits and pieces
of other Mangini-era DT "but with better production" just sounds like it's going to be DoT II, a rather bland and boring DT album imo.
What makes DoT bland? Just curious.
It's a very safe album, which somewhat makes sense coming off a controversial album like The Astonishing.
Besides the fact that I hear the band repeating themselves often in the post-MP era, I find Barstool and At Wit's End to be the only songs I revisit with any regularity. The rest don't do much for me. I find most DT albums with Mangini filled with cool parts and creative sections, but I tend to have issues with the construction of the songs themselves, like I feel like so many choruses don't match the vibe of the verses or bridges.
DT's song structures have been simplified over the years, too, and I don't know why they feel the need to do so many songs in the intro/ABABCAB/outro or similar pop structures.
Then you have a song like S2N sounds like 3 different song ideas forced together. The chorus feels out of place among the verses and main riffs, and the outro just does not belong in that song (and is a diet Dark Eternal Night outro) There are other DT songs like this in the modern era.
Glasser, and others who've heard the album, did you like the production of the new album?
Sneap CRUSHED it! It’s PERFECT and I rarely use that word.
It is good. :)bosky coming through with the deets. :tup
:octavarium: Happy Vlasto Day !
(https://i.redd.it/gn2zgbgs1dp71.jpg)
So, less than a month for the release… a full review of the album is allowed?
I heard 30 second samples of all songs today on a website where the album is being sold.It's a bit a strange comparison to me, but I get where this come from. The samples are very melodic, really liked them a lot! Again, a bit different from what I was expecting for an album that has been described primarly as intense and energetic. I know, just tiny little bits, but still.
Sounds a lot like 80’s music. The band europe comes to mind.
I heard 30 second samples of all songs today on a website where the album is being sold.It's a bit a strange comparison to me, but I get where this come from. The samplers are very melodic, really liked them a lot! Again, a bit different from what I was expecting for an album that has been described primarly as intense and energetic. I know, just tiny little bits, but still.
Sounds a lot like 80’s music. The band europe comes to mind.
wow...the samples sound very promising. Guessing Transcending Time will be the Rush-esque song? Sounds great.
Those clips Sounded pretty great. So excited for the album.
That Answering the Call snip has me so erect right now...just put in my pre-order
This sounds incredible
wow...the samples sound very promising. Guessing Transcending Time will be the Rush-esque song? Sounds great.Those clips Sounded pretty great. So excited for the album.That Answering the Call snip has me so erect right now...just put in my pre-orderThis sounds incredible
Folks are getting hyped from full album samples, I expected it and I love it. Fasten your seatbelts.
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
Too much positivity here? Really? No disrespect but that’s a sad choice of words seeing other fans are excited. We are so lucky these guys are still making quality music for us. I hope you give the album a fair chance but that’s up to you.
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
Too much positivity here? Really? No disrespect but that’s a sad choice of words seeing other fans are excited. We are so lucky these guys are still making quality music for us. I hope you give the album a fair chance but that’s up to you.
I think his sarcasm (see: the green font) went over your head. :P :P
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
Too much positivity here? Really? No disrespect but that’s a sad choice of words seeing other fans are excited. We are so lucky these guys are still making quality music for us. I hope you give the album a fair chance but that’s up to you.
I think his sarcasm (see: the green font) went over your head. :P :P
Green font is sarcasm? I’m pretty sure he feels what he said. That’s his opinion.
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
Too much positivity here? Really? No disrespect but that’s a sad choice of words seeing other fans are excited. We are so lucky these guys are still making quality music for us. I hope you give the album a fair chance but that’s up to you.
I think his sarcasm (see: the green font) went over your head. :P :P
Green font is sarcasm? I’m pretty sure he feels what he said. That’s his opinion.
So, less than a month for the release… a full review of the album is allowed?
I'll just get the Vinyl and CD version. The Doc will show up on YouTube eventually.
https://www.nuclearblast.de/en/products/tontraeger/cd/cd-digi/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world.htmlI clicked on the songs within the link and there is no sound. Am I missing something? ???
:metal :metal
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
Too much positivity here? Really? No disrespect but that’s a sad choice of words seeing other fans are excited. We are so lucky these guys are still making quality music for us. I hope you give the album a fair chance but that’s up to you.
I think his sarcasm (see: the green font) went over your head. :P :P
Green font is sarcasm? I’m pretty sure he feels what he said. That’s his opinion.
I don’t post all that much, but being here a while, green font has always been used for sarcasm/tongue in cheek, to differentiate from a bit of fun as opposed to a true opinion :tup
In all SRSNS - the album I want A View From The Top... to resemble most of all is Octavarium.
Still my favourite album by them - a concept album that's not a concept album...
And still their best 'mega-song'.
https://www.nuclearblast.de/en/products/tontraeger/cd/cd-digi/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world.htmlI clicked on the songs within the link and there is no sound. Am I missing something? ???
:metal :metal
Yes I clicked on the headphone first and then the song title, neither one worked.https://www.nuclearblast.de/en/products/tontraeger/cd/cd-digi/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world.htmlI clicked on the songs within the link and there is no sound. Am I missing something? ???
:metal :metal
Assume you clicked the headphone not the song title? For me I used Chrome - I generally use a browser named Brave but got no sound with that.
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
Too much positivity here? Really? No disrespect but that’s a sad choice of words seeing other fans are excited. We are so lucky these guys are still making quality music for us. I hope you give the album a fair chance but that’s up to you.
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
Too much positivity here? Really? No disrespect but that’s a sad choice of words seeing other fans are excited. We are so lucky these guys are still making quality music for us. I hope you give the album a fair chance but that’s up to you.
Sorry Glasser, this was 100% sarcasm, even the non green part. I was just following the trend of the last 50+ pages where something new happens (e.g. that guitarist saying it sounded badass and both single releases) and it's met with criticism.
My real opinion: I can truly see the "positive energy" that the band members have been talking about. None of the snippets sound like the Alien at all, and I love it. I loved the Alien too, but 70 minutes of the Alien would get tiresome
Yes I clicked on the headphone first and then the song title, neither one worked.https://www.nuclearblast.de/en/products/tontraeger/cd/cd-digi/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world.htmlI clicked on the songs within the link and there is no sound. Am I missing something? ???
:metal :metal
Assume you clicked the headphone not the song title? For me I used Chrome - I generally use a browser named Brave but got no sound with that.
Yeah, it works for me on Chrome and Firefox but not Brave (which is the fastest browser I have found). Not sure about others.Yes I clicked on the headphone first and then the song title, neither one worked.https://www.nuclearblast.de/en/products/tontraeger/cd/cd-digi/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world.htmlI clicked on the songs within the link and there is no sound. Am I missing something? ???
:metal :metal
Assume you clicked the headphone not the song title? For me I used Chrome - I generally use a browser named Brave but got no sound with that.
The headphone button works (at least) on firefox
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
Too much positivity here? Really? No disrespect but that’s a sad choice of words seeing other fans are excited. We are so lucky these guys are still making quality music for us. I hope you give the album a fair chance but that’s up to you.
I think his sarcasm (see: the green font) went over your head. :P :P
Green font is sarcasm? I’m pretty sure he feels what he said. That’s his opinion.
I don’t post all that much, but being here a while, green font has always been used for sarcasm/tongue in cheek, to differentiate from a bit of fun as opposed to a true opinion :tup
Noted. Well I do hope you enjoy the new album. :)
Based on those clips and IM, this might be JR's best DT work since SFAM. Love those keyboard parts.
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
I listened to the clips. One of them had a very strong AWAKE sound.
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
From a listeners point of view, what does "uninspired" even mean? Please define as when I see people say they want the band to be inspired, it always puzzles me what the listener is wanting.
Rik Emmett once said, "inspiration as a source of creativity, is overrated" and he was talking from a musician's point of view.
Too much positivity here...
I dunno guys, these 30 seconds each sound more uninspired than the last. I can clearly hear all the old DT songs they stole from
From a listeners point of view, what does "uninspired" even mean? Please define as when I see people say they want the band to be inspired, it always puzzles me what the listener is wanting.
Rik Emmett once said, "inspiration as a source of creativity, is overrated" and he was talking from a musician's point of view.
I listened to the clips. One of them had a very strong AWAKE sound.
Transcending Time made me think of Innocence Faded.
But I agree with whoever said that a lot of the album recalls earlier songs. But as long as it's more of a passing resemblance and not lifted verbatim I don't care.
It's their 15th album. Obviously you're going to have some material that sounds similar.
It's when bands try to wholesale emulate an earlier album that it starts to get stale.
And no I don't mean A Dramatic Turn Of Events. Copying a 'form' of a song is not the same.
So far it sounds like Distance Over Time 2 which is fine with me.
At worst it might end up as 'oh yeah that album'.
So far it sounds like Distance Over Time 2 which is fine with me.
At worst it might end up as 'oh yeah that album'.
Disagree on this. Based on snippets sounds far fromDOTHeaven ? :splodetard: ?
I listened to the clips. One of them had a very strong AWAKE sound.
Transcending Time made me think of Innocence Faded.
I thought the EXACT same thing!!!! Very cool you did as well! I did say a while back that the album scopes their entire career. :tup
I listened to the clips. One of them had a very strong AWAKE sound.
Transcending Time made me think of Innocence Faded.
I thought the EXACT same thing!!!! Very cool you did as well! I did say a while back that the album scopes their entire career. :tup
I can begin to hear it off of the sample. Those samples actually made me more excited for the album than releasing the songs. Which makes me agree with you about your Medley Idea.
i'll find out in 4 weeks ! Got new Mastodon and new Trivium to look forward to as well :)
Knowing me i'll ADORE both albums but they'll end up being the albums that everyone goes " oh yeah great band X album sucks tho LOL "..
Knowing me i'll ADORE both albums but they'll end up being the albums that everyone goes " oh yeah great band X album sucks tho LOL "..
Kotowboy, I was only messing with you, I’m in a goofy ass mood. I have not heard new Mastodon or Trivium, just breaking balls. :rollin :rollin :rollin
Knowing me i'll ADORE both albums but they'll end up being the albums that everyone goes " oh yeah great band X album sucks tho LOL "..
Kotowboy, I was only messing with you, I’m in a goofy ass mood. I have not heard new Mastodon or Trivium, just breaking balls. :rollin :rollin :rollin
cool beans I usually LOVE the albums most people hate anyway so i wasn't worried.
man...after hearing those snippets I am sort of sad that there are only 5 more songs lol
Knowing me i'll ADORE both albums but they'll end up being the albums that everyone goes " oh yeah great band X album sucks tho LOL "..
Kotowboy, I was only messing with you, I’m in a goofy ass mood. I have not heard new Mastodon or Trivium, just breaking balls. :rollin :rollin :rollin
Knowing me i'll ADORE both albums but they'll end up being the albums that everyone goes " oh yeah great band X album sucks tho LOL "..
Kotowboy, I was only messing with you, I’m in a goofy ass mood. I have not heard new Mastodon or Trivium, just breaking balls. :rollin :rollin :rollin
Aaaand that’s why we use green font here. :lol
man...after hearing those snippets I am sort of sad that there are only 5 more songs lol
Felt that too!! :lol But the samples really ranked up the hype. Answering the Call is my highlight from the snippets.
Aaand snippets are down
So far it sounds like Distance Over Time 2 which is fine with me.
At worst it might end up as 'oh yeah that album'.
I didn’t want the Awaken the Master sample to end, really excited now.
Ah, ok. I have to say though: they really, REALLY worked to hype me up. I am very excited for how Jordan is sounding in the clips, specially Transcending Time. And from the descriptions, I wasn't expecting to get such a melodic part in Awaken the Master. That little bit with JP's solo is the most beautiful thing I've heard from the new album yet, and that's only a few seconds from a long album.
Aaand snippets are down
Well, darn. :/ Really bummed I missed out on those snippets since you're all raving about them. I suppose none of you had them saved to your computer just in case? :lol
Here's another link ;D
*snip*
EDIT: *snip*
EDIT: *snip*
Unfortunately, the clips are NOT supposed to have been posted yet. As often happens nowadays, there are a few places online that jumped the gun. But since the band has not authorized them yet, we're not going to allow them here until the band gives the green light. If you stumble upon them somewhere else, please hold off posting anything. Thanks.
For those that did hear, for the title song, we got part of what I described in my initial notes as "Symphony X intro." :metal I'll be curious to see how accurate folks think that description is when we can hear the whole thing.
EDIT: *snip*
Unfortunately, the clips are NOT supposed to have been posted yet. As often happens nowadays, there are a few places online that jumped the gun. But since the band has not authorized them yet, we're not going to allow them here until the band gives the green light. If you stumble upon them somewhere else, please hold off posting anything. Thanks.
For those that did hear, for the title song, we got part of what I described in my initial notes as "Symphony X intro." :metal I'll be curious to see how accurate folks think that description is when we can hear the whole thing.
For those fortunate to have heard, keep in mind the samples could be completely different from the song they're part of.
Could completely just be my ageing ears, but right at the end of the snippet, Awaken the Master sounds like it could almost be connected to the Alien...
For those fortunate to have heard, keep in mind the samples could be completely different from the song they're part of.
The Alien sample was from the beautiful guitar solo. If i hadn't already heard the whole song, I would've thought the entire Alien song would be the tempo and style of that solo.
And we all know Awaken the Master is going to be pretty heavy because 8 str :loser:ing, but that sample was only like medium heavy.
These 4 weeks are going to be excruciating
One Day when all is said and done and DT have called it a career - I really hope they release a Best Of Dream Theater callled
" The First Dancing Turtle. The Very Best Of Dream Theater ".
or
" The Very Best of Dream Theater : So Energy Power. "
or
" We weren't going to release a retrospective but we had a contractual obligation so what the F*** ".Quote from: Rab7For those fortunate to have heard, keep in mind the samples could be completely different from the song they're part of.
Imagine if the sample of A Nightmare To Remember was the Beautiful Agony section!!
Which reminds me of a solid GOLD comment on YouTube of the Drummer Auditions
" Man... The Dance Of Eternity must be a nightmare to remember ! :rollin
To this day I wish everything after beautiful agony in was different 😁
You know it’s funny… everyone gave portnoy a lot of crap for that roar, and probably rightfully so but I feel like it took away from the totally badass riff that’s playing at the same time.
I’m not sure what everyone was hearing in the samples. Nothing blew me away but the sound quality was really bad so that didn’t help. Not saying the songs won’t be great though obviously.
I'm glad I listened to each clip once only as I got a taste of the album but now i've completely forgotten them.
Totally heard symphony x and was excited about it! In the past the mention of symphony x on this forum has not always been met with positive reviews, but I think an element of sx in new dt will be very welcome
Totally heard symphony x and was excited about it! In the past the mention of symphony x on this forum has not always been met with positive reviews, but I think an element of sx in new dt will be very welcome
Depends if it’s the S X sound up to The Odyssey or after as to whether that’s a good thing.
Totally heard symphony x and was excited about it! In the past the mention of symphony x on this forum has not always been met with positive reviews, but I think an element of sx in new dt will be very welcome
Depends if it’s the S X sound up to The Odyssey or after as to whether that’s a good thing.
According to the forum rules, can we still discuss on the snippets even if they're taken down?
I’m not sure what everyone was hearing in the samples. Nothing blew me away but the sound quality was really bad so that didn’t help. Not saying the songs won’t be great though obviously.
Melodic, heavy in parts, some straight prog, catchy vocal lines and good /fresh Jr patches. That sums it up for me
To this day I wish that A Nightmare to Remember and Beautiful Agony were two separate songs.Me too, so I would never have to listen to Nightmare again.
Totally heard symphony x and was excited about it! In the past the mention of symphony x on this forum has not always been met with positive reviews, but I think an element of sx in new dt will be very welcome
Depends if it’s the S X sound up to The Odyssey or after as to whether that’s a good thing.
Which do you prefer?
Totally heard symphony x and was excited about it! In the past the mention of symphony x on this forum has not always been met with positive reviews, but I think an element of sx in new dt will be very welcome
Depends if it’s the S X sound up to The Odyssey or after as to whether that’s a good thing.
Which do you prefer?
Their classic sound obviously. Modern SX is totally generic and a colossal waste of Russell Allen.
If AVFTTOTW rivals the title track from The Odyssey I'll be stoked. That is an amazing epic song!
To this day I wish that A Nightmare to Remember and Beautiful Agony were two separate songs.
Nightmare did NOT need to be 16 minutes.
Nightmare did NOT need to be 16 minutes.
Perhaps not, but it isn't anything different structurally from anything else of comparable length that they've done. If I'm the producer on that album, there isn't anything in that song that screams "cut me out." I would maybe cut about 45 seconds of the instrumental before the last chorus comes in, and maybe cut out the roar (but NOT the vocals that precede it), but that's about it. It's nearly the perfect song.
For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.
For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.
Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.
For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.
Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.
The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.
For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.
Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.
The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.
I did the exact same but also shortened the gap at the end where JM and MM come back in. Not sure why Chycki didn’t do the same.
For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.
Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.
The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.
I did the exact same but also shortened the gap at the end where JM and MM come back in. Not sure why Chycki didn’t do the same.
I am surprised. I think that section is incredibly strong and something new for DT. I remember when DT12 came out, one of the words used to describe that album was 'cinematic' which I totally got from the orchestra section in particular. Thought it was really well done...though sometimes I'll skip it if I am at the gym :biggrin:
To this day I wish that A Nightmare to Remember and Beautiful Agony were two separate songs.
To this day I wish everything after beautiful agony was different 😁
I don't agree with the notion of Beautiful Agony needing to be two separate songs. It's full of references to the main song, is connected lyrically to it, transitions smoothly from & back into it, & largely works because of how well it contrasts. Isolating it would make it into a Wither clone & would take away what I find special about it.
The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.
I did the exact same but also shortened the gap at the end where JM and MM come back in. Not sure why Chycki didn’t do the same.
For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.
Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.
The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.
I did the exact same but also shortened the gap at the end where JM and MM come back in. Not sure why Chycki didn’t do the same.
I am surprised. I think that section is incredibly strong and something new for DT. I remember when DT12 came out, one of the words used to describe that album was 'cinematic' which I totally got from the orchestra section in particular. Thought it was really well done...though sometimes I'll skip it if I am at the gym :biggrin:
But to me, the opening could be shorter and more concise and the ending can easily be trimmed. It feels like it just takes so long to get going and so long to end. The solo could easily have been streamlined....
But to me, the opening could be shorter and more concise and the ending can easily be trimmed. It feels like it just takes so long to get going and so long to end. The solo could easily have been streamlined....
The songs this applies to could make a whole double album.
.
I don't agree with the notion of Beautiful Agony needing to be two separate songs. It's full of references to the main song, is connected lyrically to it, transitions smoothly from & back into it, & largely works because of how well it contrasts. Isolating it would make it into a Wither clone & would take away what I find special about it.
I could understand the argument of thinking the solo tradeoff should've gone straight into the final chorus (cutting 10:28-13:20), but I disagree with that too. I think it works fine as it is, because the heavy part adds more variety & the riffs afterward make the transition to the final chorus smoother.
I think ANTR handles its length a lot better than disc 1 of SDOIT, most of TOT, & the Octavarium title track, personally.
The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.
One day I will understand why so many people don't like this section.
For me, ANTR is like The Glass Prison where it just overextended in the end. The music is not saying anything new anymore but it kept going on and on.
Would you like me edit both songs? I also do mastering.
The only editing I've had to do on a DT song is that I had my son edit out the orchestra section in Illumination Theory.
The orchestral section I like. The ambient bit before that, not so much.
I don't get the take that the orchestra section doesn't fit in Illumination Theory. It fits perfectly, if you ask me. I have a few minor quibbles with the song in general (I still like it quite a bit overall, but I can't call it a great song), but I have no beef with that section. Seeing it played live that first time and closing my eyes while standing and letting it just wash over me was a terrific concert moment for me. :coolio :coolio
I don't get the take that the orchestra section doesn't fit in Illumination Theory. It fits perfectly, if you ask me. I have a few minor quibbles with the song in general (I still like it quite a bit overall, but I can't call it a great song), but I have no beef with that section. Seeing it played live that first time and closing my eyes while standing and letting it just wash over me was a terrific concert moment for me. :coolio :coolio
So happy you were washed over.
I don't get the take that the orchestra section doesn't fit in Illumination Theory. It fits perfectly, if you ask me. I have a few minor quibbles with the song in general (I still like it quite a bit overall, but I can't call it a great song), but I have no beef with that section. Seeing it played live that first time and closing my eyes while standing and letting it just wash over me was a terrific concert moment for me. :coolio :coolio
So happy you were washed over.
Don't act like you don't love a good soaping.
I'm very curious to hear the slow middle part with acoustic guitar + cello
I'm very curious to hear the slow middle part with acoustic guitar + cello
I'm very curious to hear Answering The Call, Sleeping Giant, Transcending Time, Awaken The Master and A View From The Top Of The World :biggrin:
Cool podcast with Mangini here - https://open.spotify.com/episode/3BQzsB0dZVzAOMWxF8WtEd?si=VRaLOLpSQMu2ArtZ9kIYVw&nd=1 (https://open.spotify.com/episode/3BQzsB0dZVzAOMWxF8WtEd?si=VRaLOLpSQMu2ArtZ9kIYVw&nd=1)
Some cool tidbits about the album. The Alien was written first, Invisible Monster 6th and Awaken the Master last. Plus a bit about his album and upcoming tour kit and a load of other stuff.
The only thing I don't like in it is the loud high pitched pick screeching, it makes my inner dog bark from pain.
I love the sound of pick attack but it is a bit annoying how loud it is in that part.
I don't get the take that the orchestra section doesn't fit in Illumination Theory. It fits perfectly, if you ask me.
I don't get the take that the orchestra section doesn't fit in Illumination Theory. It fits perfectly, if you ask me.
same here. But Illumination Theory is, together with Octavarium and the Count in my all time top 3 Dream Theater songs… the instrumental section is probably what I love most ‘bout that epic.
And I am so bloody curious to see if the new epic can digg its way in there…
I don't get the take that the orchestra section doesn't fit in Illumination Theory. It fits perfectly, if you ask me.
same here. But Illumination Theory is, together with Octavarium and the Count in my all time top 3 Dream Theater songs… the instrumental section is probably what I love most ‘bout that epic.
And I am so bloody curious to see if the new epic can digg its way in there…
Yes. I'm not expecting it to topple Octavarium.
I don't get the take that the orchestra section doesn't fit in Illumination Theory. It fits perfectly, if you ask me.
same here. But Illumination Theory is, together with Octavarium and the Count in my all time top 3 Dream Theater songs… the instrumental section is probably what I love most ‘bout that epic.
And I am so bloody curious to see if the new epic can digg its way in there…
Illumination Theory, for as much as I love that orchestral section, would not make my top 50.
Illumination Theory, for as much as I love that orchestral section, would not make my top 50.
Nodding along with this. After the discussion of Illumination Theory in this thread, I gave it another listen a few days ago. Overriding feeling was just, well... the song is... there? I think the best part is the one that immediately follows the classical interlude. And then that's gone, too. And the song finishes before we get two pointless minutes of (admittedly melodic) noodling. Just finish the song properly. (My personal exception to this is the reprise in At Wit's End although I felt it should have merged with the end of the song, and that's the version I created; much better.)
Perhaps this should have been posted in the controversial opinions thread :biggrin:
Illumination Theory, for as much as I love that orchestral section, would not make my top 50.
Nodding along with this. After the discussion of Illumination Theory in this thread, I gave it another listen a few days ago. Overriding feeling was just, well... the song is... there? I think the best part is the one that immediately follows the classical interlude. And then that's gone, too. And the song finishes before we get two pointless minutes of (admittedly melodic) noodling. Just finish the song properly. (My personal exception to this is the reprise in At Wit's End although I felt it should have merged with the end of the song, and that's the version I created; much better.)
Perhaps this should have been posted in the controversial opinions thread :biggrin:
Illumination Theory, for as much as I love that orchestral section, would not make my top 50.
Nodding along with this. After the discussion of Illumination Theory in this thread, I gave it another listen a few days ago. Overriding feeling was just, well... the song is... there? I think the best part is the one that immediately follows the classical interlude. And then that's gone, too. And the song finishes before we get two pointless minutes of (admittedly melodic) noodling. Just finish the song properly. (My personal exception to this is the reprise in At Wit's End although I felt it should have merged with the end of the song, and that's the version I created; much better.)
Perhaps this should have been posted in the controversial opinions thread :biggrin:
the end of the IT is noodling?
Illumination Theory, for as much as I love that orchestral section, would not make my top 50.
Nodding along with this. After the discussion of Illumination Theory in this thread, I gave it another listen a few days ago. Overriding feeling was just, well... the song is... there? I think the best part is the one that immediately follows the classical interlude. And then that's gone, too. And the song finishes before we get two pointless minutes of (admittedly melodic) noodling. Just finish the song properly. (My personal exception to this is the reprise in At Wit's End although I felt it should have merged with the end of the song, and that's the version I created; much better.)
Perhaps this should have been posted in the controversial opinions thread :biggrin:
the end of the IT is noodling?
I know exactly what part he means, it's the one part I don't like from the song. Before the ending climax there's a Rudess and Petrucci solo section. Both JP and JR plays over the same composition and Rudess uses his keytar. It feels really out of place for me since the whole theme of the song is this serious concept that every other section manages to encapsulate in one way or another.
not even in your top 50? Wow, way off topic here, but I am curious however to see what makes your top 20 then.
Off the top of my head (and going in chronological order):
Take the Time
Surrounded
Metropolis
Learning to Live
Erotomania
Voices
The Mirror
Lifting Shadows Off a Dream
Scarred
Space Dye Vest
A Change of Seasons
Peruvian Skies
Lines in the Sand
Trial of Tears
Overture 1928/Strange Deja Vu (yes, I am cheating and combining these two as one)
Fatal Tragedy
Home
Finally Free
Misunderstood
In the Name of God
Octavarium would be in the next grouping along with Another Day, Hell's Kitchen, Bridges in the Sky, Beyond This Life, Fall into the Light, Three Days, The Silent Man and 6:00.
Thanks for the 'summing up'. Looks like you appreciate Dream Theater from a total different corner, which is equally fine of course.
but it's just hard to top that 1992-2002 era when they were on top of their game and wrote (what I consider) most of their best songs.
but it's just hard to top that 1992-2002 era when they were on top of their game and wrote (what I consider) most of their best songs.
I follow you here, but I've got a different perspective. I do enjoy those first albums but I wasn't aware of them back then (was Metallica-minded). So I had to dig in many albums in the recent years and that might be why I consider the first albums not as their best. But - as wrote down many times in Lifting Shadows biography - there was a time they struggled as well. Especially Falling Into Infinity has many lows which even doesn't sound like Dream Theater to me. Since Mangini there seems to be more balance, more peace and a brighter role for Rudess to write along.
Therefore I am so much looking forward to the View. Distance Over Time still is getting better each time I hear it and it's been 8 years since the last epic.
Just realised that The Alien will get abbreviated to TA and when ever anyone says TA in future - everyone will be like ??? The Answer ? The Astonishing ? The Alien ?
Which I mostly do anyway, and I will for this album as well, I might shorten the title track though.Just realised that The Alien will get abbreviated to TA and when ever anyone says TA in future - everyone will be like ??? The Answer ? The Astonishing ? The Alien ?
How about “taking the time” to write full words and sentences out? That would be easier than trying to decode everything. Seriously.
Just realised that The Alien will get abbreviated to TA and when ever anyone says TA in future - everyone will be like ??? The Answer ? The Astonishing ? The Alien ?
Just realised that The Alien will get abbreviated to TA and when ever anyone says TA in future - everyone will be like ??? The Answer ? The Astonishing ? The Alien ?
How about “taking the time” to write full words and sentences out? That would be easier than trying to decode everything. Seriously.
Just realised that The Alien will get abbreviated to TA and when ever anyone says TA in future - everyone will be like ??? The Answer ? The Astonishing ? The Alien ?
How about “taking the time” to write full words and sentences out? That would be easier than trying to decode everything. Seriously.
You know what you need...?
(https://c.tenor.com/DsbynqOeRs0AAAAC/making-a-list-christmas-story.gif)
Just realised that The Alien will get abbreviated to TA and when ever anyone says TA in future - everyone will be like ??? The Answer ? The Astonishing ? The Alien ?
Tim Allen?
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
you can't help but wonder if there were other gems that never came to fruition over the years because they are left to their own devices and there is no outside voice to push back and get them to think outside the box a little.
but it's just hard to top that 1992-2002 era when they were on top of their game and wrote (what I consider) most of their best songs.
I follow you here, but I've got a different perspective. I do enjoy those first albums but I wasn't aware of them back then (was Metallica-minded). So I had to dig in many albums in the recent years and that might be why I consider the first albums not as their best. But - as wrote down many times in Lifting Shadows biography - there was a time they struggled as well. Especially Falling Into Infinity has many lows which even doesn't sound like Dream Theater to me. Since Mangini there seems to be more balance, more peace and a brighter role for Rudess to write along.
Therefore I am so much looking forward to the View. Distance Over Time still is getting better each time I hear it and it's been 8 years since the last epic.
Well, a happier band does not automatically mean better music. Out of great conflict can come great music, and it seems like most bands in the rock music era release most of their best music early in their careers (when looking at the consensus, not necessarily personal favorites), and DT appears to be no different in that regard.
As for their struggles early on, that came about because of issues with the record company and having to use outside producers, but I would argue that they were a little better when "forced" to have an outside producer. Yes, Scenes was self-produced, but the rest of the 90s albums all had an outside producer, and the results and popularity of the songs from that decade speak for themselves. It is easy to point at You Not Me and say, "See, that is what happens when they are forced to have an outside producer," but that is the exception, not the rule. When you consider how bloated a lot of their arrangements got in the 00s and then think about how an outside producer broke up the original Burning My Soul resulting in a killer instrumental like Hell's Kitchen, you can't help but wonder if there were other gems that never came to fruition over the years because they are left to their own devices and there is no outside voice to push back and get them to think outside the box a little.
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
Things like good or bad music of a band is just too complex, specially with a band like DT imo. For a band like Pink Floyd it's easy to say after The Wall they lost it and the Roger vs Gilmour fights was important to their sound. After The Wall it's clear they don't have as much legendary material as the 70s.
Things like good or bad music of a band is just too complex, specially with a band like DT imo. For a band like Pink Floyd it's easy to say after The Wall they lost it and the Roger vs Gilmour fights was important to their sound. After The Wall it's clear they don't have as much legendary material as the 70s.
And even then it remains subjective. I love the Wall and the Final Cut as a concept album... but as I am a fan of both a Momentary Lapse of Reason and the Division Bell... there's almost nothing to enjoy on a Piper at the Gates of Dawn and a Saucerful of Secrets for me. But not much on Ummagumma of More eather. Gilmour - to me - is doing a way better job on song- and lyricswriting than the drug addict Barrett did. And although Waters is very talented, he is also traumatized and can't look past war and government-issues. So his music has also a kind of simplicity and feels a bit poor, empty, every now and then.
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
https://metalitalia.com/articolo/dream-theater-il-nuovo-album-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-traccia-per-traccia/
Here's an Italian Track-by-track review
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
https://metalitalia.com/articolo/dream-theater-il-nuovo-album-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-traccia-per-traccia/
Here's an Italian Track-by-track review
Interesting review, even though it's written in a weird and baroque style..sometimes it's really hard to understand what the guy is trying to say about the songs.
There are also some mistakes (he states that Petrucci uses an 8 string in Sleeping Giant).
The guy clearly is not a huge DT fan, he belongs to the "critical party".
Notwithstanding that here is what I got:
- The Alien: he didn't like it so much
- ATC: more melodic, nice instrumental parts, not so enthusiastic about JLB, but he likes it overall
- IM: dark and straightforward, he doesn't like it too much
- SG: initially dark, then very varied, a nice instrumental section...the guy likes it
- TT: the most "pop-pish" in the CD, "hollywood"-style, but nice overall
- ATM: the most experimental and contemporary, very powerful...the guy likes it a lot
- AVFTTOTW: he likes it. "Ambient" intro, a lot of orchestrations, an acoustic middle section, a dark and powerful finale.
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
https://metalitalia.com/articolo/dream-theater-il-nuovo-album-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-traccia-per-traccia/
Here's an Italian Track-by-track review
Interesting review, even though it's written in a weird and baroque style..sometimes it's really hard to understand what the guy is trying to say about the songs.
There are also some mistakes (he states that Petrucci uses an 8 string in Sleeping Giant).
The guy clearly is not a huge DT fan, he belongs to the "critical party".
Notwithstanding that here is what I got:
- The Alien: he didn't like it so much
- ATC: more melodic, nice instrumental parts, not so enthusiastic about JLB, but he likes it overall
- IM: dark and straightforward, he doesn't like it too much
- SG: initially dark, then very varied, a nice instrumental section...the guy likes it
- TT: the most "pop-pish" in the CD, "hollywood"-style, but nice overall
- ATM: the most experimental and contemporary, very powerful...the guy likes it a lot
- AVFTTOTW: he likes it. "Ambient" intro, a lot of orchestrations, an acoustic middle section, a dark and powerful finale.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bd/ba/c9/bdbac93cc5ed06f7bfe3e97ae42e1f08.jpg)
If that song was changed, they added the brilliant Budokan solo and outro in Hollow Years (I know Budokan was after FII but still), you could have actually just cut Burning my Soul and had an all round awesome album from start to finish. But the producers didn’t make those decisions either. So I think they had a bit of a mixed bag with some of their decisions. So I guess the question is: if there are going to be some decisions made good and some not so good, would that be any different with the band making the decisions or an outside producer doing it? I think you might get a bit of a mixed bag either way…
No matter if FII is an album you enjoy or not (I don't) I think we can all agree it wasn't good for DT and it would be like shooting yourself in the foot by doing something similar. It's not a favourite amongst fans (some songs are highly regarded however) and the band hated it so that's def going to far.
Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?
If you consider that some outlets (like us in Greece) have been getting the answer that the promo will be available on 15/10 ( ??? :facepalm: ), you may understand why there's no reviews out.
Really weird approach from Inside Out, given that we got promos for other releases way earlier.
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
https://metalitalia.com/articolo/dream-theater-il-nuovo-album-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-traccia-per-traccia/
Here's an Italian Track-by-track review
Interesting review, even though it's written in a weird and baroque style..sometimes it's really hard to understand what the guy is trying to say about the songs.
There are also some mistakes (he states that Petrucci uses an 8 string in Sleeping Giant).
The guy clearly is not a huge DT fan, he belongs to the "critical party".
Notwithstanding that here is what I got:
- The Alien: he didn't like it so much
- ATC: more melodic, nice instrumental parts, not so enthusiastic about JLB, but he likes it overall
- IM: dark and straightforward, he doesn't like it too much
- SG: initially dark, then very varied, a nice instrumental section...the guy likes it
- TT: the most "pop-pish" in the CD, "hollywood"-style, but nice overall
- ATM: the most experimental and contemporary, very powerful...the guy likes it a lot
- AVFTTOTW: he likes it. "Ambient" intro, a lot of orchestrations, an acoustic middle section, a dark and powerful finale.
If you consider that some outlets (like us in Greece) have been getting the answer that the promo will be available on 15/10 ( ??? :facepalm: ), you may understand why there's no reviews out.
Really weird approach from Inside Out, given that we got promos for other releases way earlier.
Promo copies a week before the album release? They sure want you guys to digest the album well and not publish rushed reviews. :lol
Nice find! Though that review didn't say anything too useful :P
No matter if FII is an album you enjoy or not (I don't) I think we can all agree it wasn't good for DT and it would be like shooting yourself in the foot by doing something similar. It's not a favourite amongst fans (some songs are highly regarded however) and the band hated it so that's def going to far.
"The band hated it". "The band" = MP. I'm not saying FII is a masterpiece or anything like that, I always rank it in the bottom 3 of DT albums, but it's kind of a fact that the only member that really hated the album was MP, and he was very vocal about it (as he is with most stuff anyway :lol). There was a recent (2014-ish) interview with JP where he said that they didn't hate the album and that they made the album they wanted to make (obviously MP would disagree :P).
Third Single Snippet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cV-sUpv8ro)
Third Single Snippet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cV-sUpv8ro):lol
Not exactly. JP performed the solo and it wasn't perfect technically speaking. However, it had the perfect vibe in Caveman's opinion, imperfections and all. But the following day JP insisted on redoing it, so they wiped the solo from the tape and JP redid it. If you listen to the original demo, it pretty much has the same solo, so it's not like JP did a completely different solo.If that song was changed, they added the brilliant Budokan solo and outro in Hollow Years (I know Budokan was after FII but still), you could have actually just cut Burning my Soul and had an all round awesome album from start to finish. But the producers didn’t make those decisions either. So I think they had a bit of a mixed bag with some of their decisions. So I guess the question is: if there are going to be some decisions made good and some not so good, would that be any different with the band making the decisions or an outside producer doing it? I think you might get a bit of a mixed bag either way…
Well, this is a trick one. I read (it was either an interview or some fragment from Lifting Shadows) that John first did a completely different take on the Hollow Years solo, a much more complex acustic guitar approach to what we got, and Kevin Shirley LOVED IT. Then John came in the next day saying he wanted to do something else (the one that ended up being used on the album) and they had to delete the previous take since they were doing analog recordings back then. Kevin Shirley said he was really sad about this, but he understood he was making THEIR record, not his, so ended up doing what JP wanted, so it's not like the band had 0 input on the stuff that ended up being released.
Got some quotes from JM, JL and DS to back up your statement? Just because MP was the most vocal does not mean that at least one or two of the other members didn't feel the same way. Regarding JP, just because he said that in 2014 doesn't mean he felt the same way upon completing the album. Even MP has made some more positive comments regarding FII in more recent times when the topic came up during interviews for SoA, so it's not like opinions can't change.No matter if FII is an album you enjoy or not (I don't) I think we can all agree it wasn't good for DT and it would be like shooting yourself in the foot by doing something similar. It's not a favourite amongst fans (some songs are highly regarded however) and the band hated it so that's def going to far."The band hated it". "The band" = MP. I'm not saying FII is a masterpiece or anything like that, I always rank it in the bottom 3 of DT albums, but it's kind of a fact that the only member that really hated the album was MP, and he was very vocal about it (as he is with most stuff anyway :lol). There was a recent (2014-ish) interview with JP where he said that they didn't hate the album and that they made the album they wanted to make (obviously MP would disagree :P).
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?
Not exactly. JP performed the solo and it wasn't perfect technically speaking. However, it had the perfect vibe in Caveman's opinion, imperfections and all. But the following day JP insisted on redoing it, so they wiped the solo from the tape and JP redid it. If you listen to the original demo, it pretty much has the same solo, so it's not like JP did a completely different solo.If that song was changed, they added the brilliant Budokan solo and outro in Hollow Years (I know Budokan was after FII but still), you could have actually just cut Burning my Soul and had an all round awesome album from start to finish. But the producers didn’t make those decisions either. So I think they had a bit of a mixed bag with some of their decisions. So I guess the question is: if there are going to be some decisions made good and some not so good, would that be any different with the band making the decisions or an outside producer doing it? I think you might get a bit of a mixed bag either way…
Well, this is a trick one. I read (it was either an interview or some fragment from Lifting Shadows) that John first did a completely different take on the Hollow Years solo, a much more complex acustic guitar approach to what we got, and Kevin Shirley LOVED IT. Then John came in the next day saying he wanted to do something else (the one that ended up being used on the album) and they had to delete the previous take since they were doing analog recordings back then. Kevin Shirley said he was really sad about this, but he understood he was making THEIR record, not his, so ended up doing what JP wanted, so it's not like the band had 0 input on the stuff that ended up being released.
Got some quotes from JM, JL and DS to back up your statement? Just because MP was the most vocal does not mean that at least one or two of the other members didn't feel the same way. Regarding JP, just because he said that in 2014 doesn't mean he felt the same way upon completing the album. Even MP has made some more positive comments regarding FII in more recent times when the topic came up during interviews for SoA, so it's not like opinions can't change.No matter if FII is an album you enjoy or not (I don't) I think we can all agree it wasn't good for DT and it would be like shooting yourself in the foot by doing something similar. It's not a favourite amongst fans (some songs are highly regarded however) and the band hated it so that's def going to far."The band hated it". "The band" = MP. I'm not saying FII is a masterpiece or anything like that, I always rank it in the bottom 3 of DT albums, but it's kind of a fact that the only member that really hated the album was MP, and he was very vocal about it (as he is with most stuff anyway :lol). There was a recent (2014-ish) interview with JP where he said that they didn't hate the album and that they made the album they wanted to make (obviously MP would disagree :P).
[...]
This is not a dig at MP at all, he's free to dislike that experience or any other (like his issues with Prater for IAW) and we could all go through the same thing and process it in a different way. I just say that there's no real evidence either from any of the other guys of hating FII. Saying "the band hated it" isn't accurate IMO. MP hated it, though, that's for sure.
[...]
This is not a dig at MP at all, he's free to dislike that experience or any other (like his issues with Prater for IAW) and we could all go through the same thing and process it in a different way. I just say that there's no real evidence either from any of the other guys of hating FII. Saying "the band hated it" isn't accurate IMO. MP hated it, though, that's for sure.
I find it funny how Lifting Shadows does everything possible to put Prater as the bad guy in the situation, despite him spitting pure facts one after the other :rollin
I personally am glad he put his foot down about the “mercy fuck” line in ACOS. I’d go as far to say that it might have ruined the song for me if left in. I’m no prude but that was a terrible line.
Didn't really know where to post this, but here's James singing THAT part from Innocence Faded on Cameo https://youtu.be/QX0k8oRuiOY
Didn't really know where to post this, but here's James singing THAT part from Innocence Faded on Cameo https://youtu.be/QX0k8oRuiOY
it's cool that we dont have to wonder what it would have sounded like (0:09 in): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWD8Us5qSqQYeah, I wouldn't have minded that line. Idk what I thought when I first heard about it, but after the last ten years of DT being extremely buttoned up lyrically, I don't mind some spice!
:lol
Because production matters. It's an element of the recording, just as much as the lyrics or the chord progression. They are all elements that go into the recording, and all have an impact on how much someone may like or dislike a song.Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?
I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
[...]
This is not a dig at MP at all, he's free to dislike that experience or any other (like his issues with Prater for IAW) and we could all go through the same thing and process it in a different way. I just say that there's no real evidence either from any of the other guys of hating FII. Saying "the band hated it" isn't accurate IMO. MP hated it, though, that's for sure.
I find it funny how Lifting Shadows does everything possible to put Prater as the bad guy in the situation, despite him spitting pure facts one after the other :rollin
He was my favourite character in the book, absolutely hilarious but he wasn’t wrong about a lot of stuff. I personally am glad he put his foot down about the “mercy fuck” line in ACOS. I’d go as far to say that it might have ruined the song for me if left in. I’m no prude but that was a terrible line.
Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?
I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
Because production matters. It's an element of the recording, just as much as the lyrics or the chord progression. They are all elements that go into the recording, and all have an impact on how much someone may like or dislike a song.Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?
I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
If you get a song where everything comes together, that's great. But that doesn't always happen.
Your comment reminds me of people that complain about movie critics talking about cinematography, lighting, writing, or casting. Just because certain elements of any given art form don't enter into how you enjoy it doesn't mean that they aren't valid discussion points. They give additional ways to enjoy the film/song, beyond "I liked it/I didn't like it" (which are still valid, of course).
I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album.My point isn't absolute, so it doesn't require you to agree with it. But you point it out yourself in the bolded. People are different. Just because production doesn't matter to you doesn't mean that it should be irrelevant to everyone else. It's valid whether it's valid to you personally or not.
Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.Yes, they create it, but we listen to it, and the choices they make will indelibly have an effect on how we respond to it. They reason I like/dislike a song could be as varied as a chord progression to a lyric to a drum beat to an arrangement to how a song is produced. Just because some of that doesn't matter to YOU doesn't mean that none of it should matter to anyone else. Which is all I'm saying.
"A View From The Top Of The World:Awesome! My favourite moment of the 2019 show was Mike's solo in "Finally Free". He did some crazy stuff with the meters, making the other instruments' parts sound a bit different..
The song closes with a repeating riff while MM does his thing, resembling Finally Free.
"A View From The Top Of The World:Awesome! My favourite moment of the 2019 show was Mike's solo in "Finally Free". He did some crazy stuff with the meters, making the other instruments' parts sound a bit different..
The song closes with a repeating riff while MM does his thing, resembling Finally Free.
I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album.My point isn't absolute, so it doesn't require you to agree with it. But you point it out yourself in the bolded. People are different. Just because production doesn't matter to you doesn't mean that it should be irrelevant to everyone else. It's valid whether it's valid to you personally or not.Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.Yes, they create it, but we listen to it, and the choices they make will indelibly have an effect on how we respond to it. They reason I like/dislike a song could be as varied as a chord progression to a lyric to a drum beat to an arrangement to how a song is produced. Just because some of that doesn't matter to YOU doesn't mean that none of it should matter to anyone else. Which is all I'm saying.
I would say that the lyrics were wrote by JM, because it is impossible to determine what it is about, it is certainly an abstract poem!"
I'm glad the 8 string is used for riffs and as part of scale runs and not just GUNG GUNG GUNG GOWWWWWW. Cause that whole 'sound' is played out imo.
AlsoQuoteI would say that the lyrics were wrote by JM, because it is impossible to determine what it is about, it is certainly an abstract poem!"
Yep that tracks !
Because production matters. It's an element of the recording, just as much as the lyrics or the chord progression. They are all elements that go into the recording, and all have an impact on how much someone may like or dislike a song.Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?
I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
If you get a song where everything comes together, that's great. But that doesn't always happen.
Your comment reminds me of people that complain about movie critics talking about cinematography, lighting, writing, or casting. Just because certain elements of any given art form don't enter into how you enjoy it doesn't mean that they aren't valid discussion points. They give additional ways to enjoy the film/song, beyond "I liked it/I didn't like it" (which are still valid, of course).
I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album. Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.
Because production matters. It's an element of the recording, just as much as the lyrics or the chord progression. They are all elements that go into the recording, and all have an impact on how much someone may like or dislike a song.Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?
I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
If you get a song where everything comes together, that's great. But that doesn't always happen.
Your comment reminds me of people that complain about movie critics talking about cinematography, lighting, writing, or casting. Just because certain elements of any given art form don't enter into how you enjoy it doesn't mean that they aren't valid discussion points. They give additional ways to enjoy the film/song, beyond "I liked it/I didn't like it" (which are still valid, of course).
I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album. Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.
There's studies that say that timbre is the most important aspect of music, and how it directly affects the perception of the music. If production didn't matter, we would just read sheet music because the notes are the same anyway (a small hyperbole there).
Perception of production is entirely subjective, of course, but aesthetics have different trends/rules about production (and thus, timbre).
If Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up had '60s style production, it wouldn't be the same song, even if the notes were the same, right away from the start with the synth drums.
Timbre/tones, dynamics in the playing, volume (and macro dynamics), panning, and more, all matter (even if the listener can't coinciously tell) and the outcome can be really different with anything of that changing.
In my personal case, I never listen to Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence with headphones because the production makes it literally unlistenable for me; that directly affects my relationship with the album.
production matters a lot, but still not as much as people think.
Because production matters. It's an element of the recording, just as much as the lyrics or the chord progression. They are all elements that go into the recording, and all have an impact on how much someone may like or dislike a song.Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?
I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
If you get a song where everything comes together, that's great. But that doesn't always happen.
Your comment reminds me of people that complain about movie critics talking about cinematography, lighting, writing, or casting. Just because certain elements of any given art form don't enter into how you enjoy it doesn't mean that they aren't valid discussion points. They give additional ways to enjoy the film/song, beyond "I liked it/I didn't like it" (which are still valid, of course).
I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album. Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.
There's studies that say that timbre is the most important aspect of music, and how it directly affects the perception of the music. If production didn't matter, we would just read sheet music because the notes are the same anyway (a small hyperbole there).
Perception of production is entirely subjective, of course, but aesthetics have different trends/rules about production (and thus, timbre).
If Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up had '60s style production, it wouldn't be the same song, even if the notes were the same, right away from the start with the synth drums.
Timbre/tones, dynamics in the playing, volume (and macro dynamics), panning, and more, all matter (even if the listener can't coinciously tell) and the outcome can be really different with anything of that changing.
In my personal case, I never listen to Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence with headphones because the production makes it literally unlistenable for me; that directly affects my relationship with the album.
If you put Awake for example and then go straight to ADTOE or DT12, the downgrade is immediately obvious, at least to my ears.
As ususal, de gustibus...but I think it's not correct to say that some modern DT albums have a "bad" production or there was a "downgrade"...while it's fair to say, of course, that some people just don't like it.
It's a matter of taste, not of "professionalism".
Album trailer (more like The Alien trailer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vHB_oiIjXE
I've got good news for you! It's two weeks and two days rather than three weeks :biggrin:
Two weeks tomorrow since it'll be on Spotify at 00:00 on Friday morning :neverusethis:
No Not 6:00 on a Christmas Morning. Shut Up.
production matters a lot, but still not as much as people think.Depends on the production issue at hand, depends on the people.
Because production matters. It's an element of the recording, just as much as the lyrics or the chord progression. They are all elements that go into the recording, and all have an impact on how much someone may like or dislike a song.Less than 3 weeks for album release day and still no reviews online :huh:
Do reviews still matter anymore in terms of driving sales?
I think people, in general, like to find things not to like rather than just enjoying the music. Dissecting the living shit out of how imperfect things are, its INSANE! Growing up I listened to tunes for pleasure, I never sat there with a pen and paper saying this album is good but the drums are slightly tinny or the guitars are muddy. Why? Just..... WHY?
If you get a song where everything comes together, that's great. But that doesn't always happen.
Your comment reminds me of people that complain about movie critics talking about cinematography, lighting, writing, or casting. Just because certain elements of any given art form don't enter into how you enjoy it doesn't mean that they aren't valid discussion points. They give additional ways to enjoy the film/song, beyond "I liked it/I didn't like it" (which are still valid, of course).
I respectfully understand yet disagree with you're point. I personally feel a complaint has to be major to affect the outcome. For example, a lot of fans feel the Dream Theater self titled album has a horrible production yet I like it very much, same goes for A Dramatic Turn of Events, the production could have been better but its my favorite DT album. Unless a song/album is inaudible I don't feel the need to beat on it. It goes back to what Bosk said, the writing is the bands art as is the sound they choose. They create it from their vision not ours.
There's studies that say that timbre is the most important aspect of music, and how it directly affects the perception of the music. If production didn't matter, we would just read sheet music because the notes are the same anyway (a small hyperbole there).
Perception of production is entirely subjective, of course, but aesthetics have different trends/rules about production (and thus, timbre).
If Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up had '60s style production, it wouldn't be the same song, even if the notes were the same, right away from the start with the synth drums.
Timbre/tones, dynamics in the playing, volume (and macro dynamics), panning, and more, all matter (even if the listener can't coinciously tell) and the outcome can be really different with anything of that changing.
In my personal case, I never listen to Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence with headphones because the production makes it literally unlistenable for me; that directly affects my relationship with the album.
I love Six Degrees… headphones and all, it’s far from unlistenable. Dream Theater has never released an album where the production ruins the integrity of the songwriting. But that’s just my opinion.
Album trailer (more like The Alien trailer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vHB_oiIjXE
Gah boooooooring! I wanted at least a mini-snippet of something new.
I am currently feeling like I always do 3 weeks before release; "WHY WHY couldn't they just decide on a release date 3 weeks ealier?!?!"
I love astonishing but the production is very poor. It needs to sound more organic.
I wish it could be remixed.
I love astonishing but the production is very poor. It needs to sound more organic.
I wish it could be remixed.
Huh. I always thought TA was one of the best-sounding DT albums, very spacious, everything "breathes" well.
If you put Awake for example and then go straight to ADTOE or DT12, the downgrade is immediately obvious, at least to my ears.
I've actually did that last week and couldn't stop wondering how that could happen with 25 years worth of experience and new technologies. It really doesn't make any sense.
production matters a lot, but still not as much as people think.Depends on the producer. Judging by this statement, I don't think you fully understand the kind of impact a producer can have on the outcome of an album.
If you put Awake for example and then go straight to ADTOE or DT12, the downgrade is immediately obvious, at least to my ears.
I've actually did that last week and couldn't stop wondering how that could happen with 25 years worth of experience and new technologies. It really doesn't make any sense.
That’s not just DT though, that’s music in general. Petrucci himself has even commented on the fact that we constantly push visuals forward like, dvd, blu-ray, 4K and beyond but music has gone the other way with the new technology making things worse. There’s not much money in albums anymore so people don’t spend a ton of money on making them sound great especially when it’s likely just going to end up as some super compressed version on someone’s phone. If you listen to 80’s albums in general, they sound way better than modern albums.
Yeah Scenes to Octavarium were really good sounding albums.
Systematic was not great sounding. Black Clouds was a little better. I remember Jordan saying they didn't want to compete in the loudness war on that album.
Obviously after Portnoy left the production suffered a bit. A Dramatic Turn of Events sounded really odd. Dream Theater was a bit punchier but had a terrible snare sound.
When I heard The Gift Of Music i felt like the magic of Scenes - Octavarium was back and then finally Distance Over Time - for my money - recaptured that magic.
As a trained producer myself - I sometimes scratch my head when I hear dreadful albums like " How hard can it be to set up microphones and record a band and mix it ? "
How do so many albums sound SO bad ? Like Foo Fighters Concrete and Gold - like - what the F happened ?!
Yeah Scenes to Octavarium were really good sounding albums.
Systematic was not great sounding. Black Clouds was a little better. I remember Jordan saying they didn't want to compete in the loudness war on that album.
Obviously after Portnoy left the production suffered a bit. A Dramatic Turn of Events sounded really odd. Dream Theater was a bit punchier but had a terrible snare sound.
When I heard The Gift Of Music i felt like the magic of Scenes - Octavarium was back and then finally Distance Over Time - for my money - recaptured that magic.
As a trained producer myself - I sometimes scratch my head when I hear dreadful albums like " How hard can it be to set up microphones and record a band and mix it ? "
How do so many albums sound SO bad ? Like Foo Fighters Concrete and Gold - like - what the F happened ?!
Huge disagree. All those are really dry, and the volume of the instruments is all over the place (for no reason), the kicks sound like white noise, guitars are really muddy at points (solo on Fatal Tragedy comes to mind), bass is inaudible, keyboards are buried except during solos. And all of them clip and are really loud.
Well what strikes me is that jp has openly said he wants to produce. Glad that did something different this time. Btw I know nothing about the actual process of recording /production etc, but the difference between a well produced record and a standard dt record is clear.... I do wonder if the complexity is what makes it MORE challenging
Well what strikes me is that jp has openly said he wants to produce. Glad that did something different this time. Btw I know nothing about the actual process of recording /production etc, but the difference between a well produced record and a standard dt record is clear.... I do wonder if the complexity is what makes it MORE challenging
From an arrangement perspective, DT's music isn't complex (except for The Astonishing and it's 500 iirc layers), it shouldn't be a problem. Plini's Handmade Cities has a lot of layers and it's pretty technical, and sounds amazing.
Intervals is smashing. :tup
Speaking of expensive producers. I have to laugh when I see Rap 'producers' with nicknames instead of their real names.
They probably think it sounds cool and mysterious. And what does a RAP producer do anyway?
" Turn the backing track up "
" Turn the vocal up "
Ok that's basically all I know how to do that'll be $500,000
You're saying Portnoy WASNT the mega producer everyone thought he was? :o
Songs can be LOUD as long as they dont cause ear fatigue and those albums never did.
Like I said before that's just modern production. The days of Images and Words and Dire Straits On Every Street ( audio perfection ) are GONE.
Well what strikes me is that jp has openly said he wants to produce. Glad that did something different this time. Btw I know nothing about the actual process of recording /production etc, but the difference between a well produced record and a standard dt record is clear.... I do wonder if the complexity is what makes it MORE challenging
You're saying Portnoy WASNT the mega producer everyone thought he was? :o
Songs can be LOUD as long as they dont cause ear fatigue and those albums never did.
Like I said before that's just modern production. The days of Images and Words and Dire Straits On Every Street ( audio perfection ) are GONE.
I think you're confusing "Production" with "Mixing" and "Mastering".
The producers can make a great sounding record, but it's the mixers and the one who masters the album that determines precisely how the end product sounds.
It's why I would rather buy a "Remixed" re-release of an older album (especially one that does not sound that great) over a "Remastered" release.
Album trailer (more like The Alien trailer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vHB_oiIjXE
Gah boooooooring! I wanted at least a mini-snippet of something new.
I am currently feeling like I always do 3 weeks before release; "WHY WHY couldn't they just decide on a release date 3 weeks ealier?!?!"
Yes and if you think how much music (in hours/minutes) DT already released in its career... it's more than Rush did, for example.
About the reviews, this brazilian magazine (https://roadiecrew.com/produto/edicao-264/) is already out and has a 9.5/10 review for AVFTTOTW. Personally I think the reviewer is a really good one as I tend to have similar musical opinions as his ;). And, in his opinion, it's the best DT album since Octavarium. Just for reference, he's a DT fan, but DT doesn't appeal him very much since Systematic Chaos, he hates The Astonishing and thinks D/T was at least a return to the right path.
he hates The Astonishing and thinks D/T was at least a return to the right path.
Yes and if you think how much music (in hours/minutes) DT already released in its career... it's more than Rush did, for example.
About the reviews, this brazilian magazine (https://roadiecrew.com/produto/edicao-264/) is already out and has a 9.5/10 review for AVFTTOTW. Personally I think the reviewer is a really good one as I tend to have similar musical opinions as his ;). And, in his opinion, it's the best DT album since Octavarium. Just for reference, he's a DT fan, but DT doesn't appeal him very much since Systematic Chaos, he hates The Astonishing and thinks D/T was at least a return to the right path.
It's interesting when you look at Neal Morse's albums, Neal has a much smaller budget that DT (I assume) yet his albums all pretty much sound fantastic, especially anything he's recorded with SB, TA or solo since 1999.Agreed. Neal's albums always sound amazing. Maybe it has to do with Rich Mouser, who mixes all of Neal's stuff?
DT's albums are all over the map, and rarely would I say they "sound good", other than IaW, Awake, and FII, which all have great production values.
SDoIT, ToT, and 8vm sound fine to me, especially for the era, but not at the level of the band's aforementioned 2nd, 3rd and 4th albums. No albums since '05 have sounded as good to my ears.
So it has nothing to do with budget as far as I can tell.
If you put Awake for example and then go straight to ADTOE or DT12, the downgrade is immediately obvious, at least to my ears.
I've actually did that last week and couldn't stop wondering how that could happen with 25 years worth of experience and new technologies. It really doesn't make any sense.
That’s not just DT though, that’s music in general. Petrucci himself has even commented on the fact that we constantly push visuals forward like, dvd, blu-ray, 4K and beyond but music has gone the other way with the new technology making things worse. There’s not much money in albums anymore so people don’t spend a ton of money on making them sound great especially when it’s likely just going to end up as some super compressed version on someone’s phone. If you listen to 80’s albums in general, they sound way better than modern albums.
This is so wrong that is in the involuntary parody territory, sorry. I can understand the case for dynamic range and macro dynamics, but that's it. The money argument makes zero sense, considering a lot of amazing production technology is rather cheap (even more compared to the analogic equivalents), or literally free; yes, a microphone in the thousands of dollars range is good, but it's useless if the rest of choices are bad.
It's completely dependant of the aesthetic, too. Jazz dudes aren't afraid of incorporating Electronic music (Sungazer, DOMi & JD Beck, and Mark Guiliana are pretty popular in the scene) or Hip-Hop influences (everyone and their mother is playing Dilla beats), for example. While the Rock and Metal dudes throw a tantrum when they see a guitar with 8-strings, or a drummer who can play in time, so, back on topic, it's no surprise the aesthetic had no sonic evolution. And even then, Metal albums do sound clearer and better than they did in the '80s, especially when comparing small acts.
If you put Awake for example and then go straight to ADTOE or DT12, the downgrade is immediately obvious, at least to my ears.
I've actually did that last week and couldn't stop wondering how that could happen with 25 years worth of experience and new technologies. It really doesn't make any sense.
That’s not just DT though, that’s music in general. Petrucci himself has even commented on the fact that we constantly push visuals forward like, dvd, blu-ray, 4K and beyond but music has gone the other way with the new technology making things worse. There’s not much money in albums anymore so people don’t spend a ton of money on making them sound great especially when it’s likely just going to end up as some super compressed version on someone’s phone. If you listen to 80’s albums in general, they sound way better than modern albums.
This is so wrong that is in the involuntary parody territory, sorry. I can understand the case for dynamic range and macro dynamics, but that's it. The money argument makes zero sense, considering a lot of amazing production technology is rather cheap (even more compared to the analogic equivalents), or literally free; yes, a microphone in the thousands of dollars range is good, but it's useless if the rest of choices are bad.
It's completely dependant of the aesthetic, too. Jazz dudes aren't afraid of incorporating Electronic music (Sungazer, DOMi & JD Beck, and Mark Guiliana are pretty popular in the scene) or Hip-Hop influences (everyone and their mother is playing Dilla beats), for example. While the Rock and Metal dudes throw a tantrum when they see a guitar with 8-strings, or a drummer who can play in time, so, back on topic, it's no surprise the aesthetic had no sonic evolution. And even then, Metal albums do sound clearer and better than they did in the '80s, especially when comparing small acts.
So Petrucci was talking out of his arse then when he said sound quality is going backwards while visual quality is getting better and better? Not my words, the words of one of the world’s top musicians. You think that people are spending the same amount of money making albums as they used to?
People still not understanding that production is more than sound and tones. Good producers steer the direction of songs. Good producers arrange instrumentation. Listen to MJ's Thriller, Bad, and Dangerous. All of those horns were all Quincy Jones. That kind of stuff elevated those songs above what they would have been without them. Good producers might arrange vocal sections and backing vocal parts. Strings. All sorts of stuff. For a band like DT, they don't need a producer to do these things. But, the blanket statements about producers not being so important is just false. There are so many albums that could have gone to #1 with the right producer to elevate the songs.
People still not understanding that production is more than sound and tones. Good producers steer the direction of songs. Good producers arrange instrumentation. Listen to MJ's Thriller, Bad, and Dangerous. All of those horns were all Quincy Jones. That kind of stuff elevated those songs above what they would have been without them. Good producers might arrange vocal sections and backing vocal parts. Strings. All sorts of stuff. For a band like DT, they don't need a producer to do these things. But, the blanket statements about producers not being so important is just false. There are so many albums that could have gone to #1 with the right producer to elevate the songs.
You are correct that "production" can mean lots of things other than what is being discussed in this thread. But nomenclature aside, those other things aren't what is being discussed, so I don't see the point in clarifying that the definition of that term encompasses other things. We aren't discussing those other things.
That said, those whole discussion on production is way off topic and belongs somewhere else.
If you put Awake for example and then go straight to ADTOE or DT12, the downgrade is immediately obvious, at least to my ears.
I've actually did that last week and couldn't stop wondering how that could happen with 25 years worth of experience and new technologies. It really doesn't make any sense.
That’s not just DT though, that’s music in general. Petrucci himself has even commented on the fact that we constantly push visuals forward like, dvd, blu-ray, 4K and beyond but music has gone the other way with the new technology making things worse. There’s not much money in albums anymore so people don’t spend a ton of money on making them sound great especially when it’s likely just going to end up as some super compressed version on someone’s phone. If you listen to 80’s albums in general, they sound way better than modern albums.
This is so wrong that is in the involuntary parody territory, sorry. I can understand the case for dynamic range and macro dynamics, but that's it. The money argument makes zero sense, considering a lot of amazing production technology is rather cheap (even more compared to the analogic equivalents), or literally free; yes, a microphone in the thousands of dollars range is good, but it's useless if the rest of choices are bad.
It's completely dependant of the aesthetic, too. Jazz dudes aren't afraid of incorporating Electronic music (Sungazer, DOMi & JD Beck, and Mark Guiliana are pretty popular in the scene) or Hip-Hop influences (everyone and their mother is playing Dilla beats), for example. While the Rock and Metal dudes throw a tantrum when they see a guitar with 8-strings, or a drummer who can play in time, so, back on topic, it's no surprise the aesthetic had no sonic evolution. And even then, Metal albums do sound clearer and better than they did in the '80s, especially when comparing small acts.
So Petrucci was talking out of his arse then when he said sound quality is going backwards while visual quality is getting better and better? Not my words, the words of one of the world’s top musicians. You think that people are spending the same amount of money making albums as they used to?
Considering how goddamn boomer-y it sounds, I don't care if John Petrucci or Paul McStraty the 5 licks pentatonic player says it. It's not a fair argument because the availability of recording and production technology is totally different to what it was in the '80s or even '90s; I dare to say it would be silly to spend absurd amounts of money to get a similar (or possibly worse) result than a cheaper one.
Latest Iron Maiden sounds worse than the average bedroom Prog project, and Iron Maiden definitely have a big budget, and the album was mixed by the supposedly competent Kevin Shirley.
Music production isn't getting worse in quality; a lot of Pop albums sound IMMENSELY clear and detailed (BTS and Ariana Grande instantly come to mind), even with a loud master; and going for the '80s thing, Carly Rae Jepsen's Emotion and The Weeknd's After Hours sound clearer than many of the albums of the '80s Pop acts.
Thief are a pretty small band, and The 16 Deaths Of My Master has an impressive production.
So yes, I definitely think Petrucci is talking bullshit. It takes no effort to see that sound quality isn't getting "less clear/defined" or worse, and again and again, technology is incredibly accessible, and that's good.
Which one?
Good call (not that there are any bad ones). That buzzsaw riff is really cool. And Jordan's "steel drum" patch is oddly fitting.
Good call (not that there are any bad ones). That buzzsaw riff is really cool. And Jordan's "steel drum" patch is oddly fitting.
Mine is Transcending Time but I have to admit that Sleeping Giant is well composed.Which one?
Sleeping Giant
Mine is Transcending Time but I have to admit that Sleeping Giant is well composed.Which one?
Sleeping Giant
Mine is Transcending Time but I have to admit that Sleeping Giant is well composed.Which one?
Sleeping Giant
You liking this album more than DoT?
Mine is Transcending Time but I have to admit that Sleeping Giant is well composed.Which one?
Sleeping Giant
You liking this album more than DoT?
Yes, but I'm not taking anything away from DoT. This is easily my favorite DT album in years and ties my all-time fave ADTOE. It just keeps getting better.
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
???
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
???
I think they mean that no one has said the epic is their favourite song yet. (don't remember if anyone's said that yet either)
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
???
I think they mean that no one has said the epic is their favourite song yet. (don't remember if anyone's said that yet either)
Oh. Well, only two people have said what their favorite is. So, I guess it is literally true that "no one" has said that song is their favorite. But out of such a small sample size, that doesn't really say anything. :lol
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
???
I think they mean that no one has said the epic is their favourite song yet. (don't remember if anyone's said that yet either)
Oh. Well, only two people have said what their favorite is. So, I guess it is literally true that "no one" has said that song is their favorite. But out of such a small sample size, that doesn't really say anything. :lol
You are actually right :laugh: Which is your favorite? :biggrin:
If you put Awake for example and then go straight to ADTOE or DT12, the downgrade is immediately obvious, at least to my ears.
I've actually did that last week and couldn't stop wondering how that could happen with 25 years worth of experience and new technologies. It really doesn't make any sense.
That’s not just DT though, that’s music in general. Petrucci himself has even commented on the fact that we constantly push visuals forward like, dvd, blu-ray, 4K and beyond but music has gone the other way with the new technology making things worse. There’s not much money in albums anymore so people don’t spend a ton of money on making them sound great especially when it’s likely just going to end up as some super compressed version on someone’s phone. If you listen to 80’s albums in general, they sound way better than modern albums.
This is so wrong that is in the involuntary parody territory, sorry. I can understand the case for dynamic range and macro dynamics, but that's it. The money argument makes zero sense, considering a lot of amazing production technology is rather cheap (even more compared to the analogic equivalents), or literally free; yes, a microphone in the thousands of dollars range is good, but it's useless if the rest of choices are bad.
It's completely dependant of the aesthetic, too. Jazz dudes aren't afraid of incorporating Electronic music (Sungazer, DOMi & JD Beck, and Mark Guiliana are pretty popular in the scene) or Hip-Hop influences (everyone and their mother is playing Dilla beats), for example. While the Rock and Metal dudes throw a tantrum when they see a guitar with 8-strings, or a drummer who can play in time, so, back on topic, it's no surprise the aesthetic had no sonic evolution. And even then, Metal albums do sound clearer and better than they did in the '80s, especially when comparing small acts.
So Petrucci was talking out of his arse then when he said sound quality is going backwards while visual quality is getting better and better? Not my words, the words of one of the world’s top musicians. You think that people are spending the same amount of money making albums as they used to?
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
???
I think they mean that no one has said the epic is their favourite song yet. (don't remember if anyone's said that yet either)
Oh. Well, only two people have said what their favorite is. So, I guess it is literally true that "no one" has said that song is their favorite. But out of such a small sample size, that doesn't really say anything. :lol
You are actually right :laugh: Which is your favorite? :biggrin:
It's too early to have one. In no particular order, The Alien, Sleeping Giant, Awaken the Master, and the epic are all up there. But I haven't digested them enough to have a favorite yet.
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
The title track is basically 5 songs within itself. A complete masterpiece.
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
The title track is basically 5 songs within itself. A complete masterpiece.
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
The title track is basically 5 songs within itself. A complete masterpiece.
Sounds great, can’t wait to hear it!
Out of interest, does the epic have sub-heading titles for the different sections like in some of the other epics (ACOS, 8V, IT), or more just one big song like the Count of Tuscany? No issue if that is info you can’t share, was just interested 😊
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
The title track is basically 5 songs within itself. A complete masterpiece.
Sounds great, can’t wait to hear it!
Out of interest, does the epic have sub-heading titles for the different sections like in some of the other epics (ACOS, 8V, IT), or more just one big song like the Count of Tuscany? No issue if that is info you can’t share, was just interested 😊
No but I have not seen a hard copy yet. Im pretty sure all promo listeners see it as one title.
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
???
I think they mean that no one has said the epic is their favourite song yet. (don't remember if anyone's said that yet either)
Oh. Well, only two people have said what their favorite is. So, I guess it is literally true that "no one" has said that song is their favorite. But out of such a small sample size, that doesn't really say anything. :lol
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
???
I think they mean that no one has said the epic is their favourite song yet. (don't remember if anyone's said that yet either)
Oh. Well, only two people have said what their favorite is. So, I guess it is literally true that "no one" has said that song is their favorite. But out of such a small sample size, that doesn't really say anything. :lol
I recall after Octavarium came out, after the first couple of listens, I wouldn't have called the title track my favorite, it was probably TROAE or Panic Attack. Epics need more time to sink in. I remember finishing my very first listen of the title track very well, and my thought was something like, "well that happened". Couldn't even remember what I listened to.
Now, I think Octavarium is the best song DT ever made. Not saying the epic is always the best song on an album, but give it some time. (also DT15 isn't out yet, so there is no general consensus on anything)
FII was and is a three song EP for me.
Lines In The Sand
Peruvian Skies
Trial Of Tears
I'll take the Budokan version of Hollow Years.
TBH, I kinda hated Distance over Time: I have completely rejected it since the first listening (at first I thought I had been handed over a demo as the production was muddy, some editing choices were strange). On the contrary, I liked DT15 instantly. I'm not loving it, it's not THE prog album of the decade and couldn't stand the comparison with the golden age (from WDADU to ToT). But it's easily the best album of the band since...let's say ToT (not to mention the Astonishing which for me is one of the greatest album of DT but is more a side project from JP and JR than a band effort). The production is one of the best if not the best. What a pleasure to hear what John Myung has to say without trying hard to discover where the bass is hidden. What a relief to see that Mangini can astonish us and can sound great (well you can hear that in the singles).Mine is Transcending Time but I have to admit that Sleeping Giant is well composed.Which one?
Sleeping Giant
You liking this album more than DoT?
I got an email last night that my AVFTTOTW artbook set is being delayed to December.
So I've got THAT going for me...
it is very strange that for no one the best is the suite…
???
I think they mean that no one has said the epic is their favourite song yet. (don't remember if anyone's said that yet either)
Oh. Well, only two people have said what their favorite is. So, I guess it is literally true that "no one" has said that song is their favorite. But out of such a small sample size, that doesn't really say anything. :lol
I recall after Octavarium came out, after the first couple of listens, I wouldn't have called the title track my favorite, it was probably TROAE or Panic Attack. Epics need more time to sink in.
Just received the album THROUGH OFFICIAL CHANNELS (don't ban me!!!), and I'm going through my first listen. Two songs before the end I can already say this is Mangini's finest hour with DT, guys!!!!which btw, I'm happy to read your review of (of course innit)
Just received the album THROUGH OFFICIAL CHANNELS (don't ban me!!!), and I'm going through my first listen. Two songs before the end I can already say this is Mangini's finest hour with DT, guys!!!!
Just received the album THROUGH OFFICIAL CHANNELS (don't ban me!!!), and I'm going through my first listen. Two songs before the end I can already say this is Mangini's finest hour with DT, guys!!!!which btw, I'm happy to read your review of (of course innit)
:panicattack: Rodrigo said the album smells bad and is falling apart at the seams!!!
This album may end being the "...oh yeah that album exists. I forgot about that one. " of their discog like When Dream and Day or Falling Into Infinity.
Not awesome. Not terrible. Just another DT album.
This album may end being the "...oh yeah that album exists. I forgot about that one. " of their discog like When Dream and Day or Falling Into Infinity.
Not awesome. Not terrible. Just another DT album.
I'm pretty cofindent about it too. I listened to this song many times and... so it's OK. I think it will end at the bottom DT songs to me unfortunately. But I guess it's also a good sign that you think it's the worst from the album.:panicattack: Rodrigo said the album smells bad and is falling apart at the seams!!!
LOOOOOOL NO!!!!
I like it. Just finished my first listen, and this album is a great addition to their discography. The legacy lives on! I felt a bit underwhelmed by a few moments on it, but overall, these songs are going to sound amazing live. I liked everything except for Invisible Monsters and the fact that A View from the Top of the World lacks the sense of completion and grandiose that Octavarium or Illumination Theory give me at the end.
This album may end being the "...oh yeah that album exists. I forgot about that one. " of their discog like When Dream and Day or Falling Into Infinity.
Not awesome. Not terrible. Just another DT album.
Not that I really care what people are saying about the album in advance, but that's actually what I took from Rodrigo's post about his running shoes (which I think was probably unintentional). I understand the attraction of an old pair of shoes but they're still just that. I'd like the album to grab my attention, chew me up and spit me out. Something that needs taming. Unrealistic to expect that after all these years, I know.
Only two weeks to go.
This album may end being the "...oh yeah that album exists. I forgot about that one. " of their discog like When Dream and Day or Falling Into Infinity.
Not awesome. Not terrible. Just another DT album.
Haha the most troll comment ever. I wouldn’t take the bait people.
Based on Rodrigo’s review of Senjutsu, we can safely say that if he loves the DT, it’s going to blow.
This album may end being the "...oh yeah that album exists. I forgot about that one. " of their discog like When Dream and Day or Falling Into Infinity.
Not awesome. Not terrible. Just another DT album.
Haha the most troll comment ever. I wouldn’t take the bait people.
I wouldn't be as drastic as Kotowboy. I like my old pair of running shoes, and I look forward to running with them every now and then! I'm on my second listen, and I must say the mix is way better than DOT, and the album is just as consistent. Speaking of running, this one and DOT are great albums to run to.
This album may end being the "...oh yeah that album exists. I forgot about that one. " of their discog like When Dream and Day or Falling Into Infinity.
Not awesome. Not terrible. Just another DT album.
Haha the most troll comment ever. I wouldn’t take the bait people.
I wouldn't be as drastic as Kotowboy. I like my old pair of running shoes, and I look forward to running with them every now and then! I'm on my second listen, and I must say the mix is way better than DOT, and the album is just as consistent. Speaking of running, this one and DOT are great albums to run to.
By the way, on behalf of your knees, I think the cushioning of your beloved running shoes has already gone to space! ;D
Just received the album THROUGH OFFICIAL CHANNELS (don't ban me!!!), and I'm going through my first listen. Two songs before the end I can already say this is Mangini's finest hour with DT, guys!!!!
Just received the album THROUGH OFFICIAL CHANNELS (don't ban me!!!), and I'm going through my first listen. Two songs before the end I can already say this is Mangini's finest hour with DT, guys!!!!
:panicattack: Rodrigo said the album smells bad and is falling apart at the seams!!!
This album may end being the "...oh yeah that album exists. I forgot about that one. " of their discog like When Dream and Day or Falling Into Infinity.
Not awesome. Not terrible. Just another DT album.
All the songs here are VERY melodic, even the heay beginning of Awaken the MAster. And although there are cool solos throughout, this album feels a lot more like a team effort, relying on the strength of the songs as opposed to jaw-dropping solos.
The brazilian reviewer from Roadie Crew magazine, Daniel Dutra, described Transcending Time like something very 80's AOR (and called it wonderful masterpiece). I thought it very interesting... from the top of my head I can only remember DT making something like this with Innocence Faded.
The brazilian reviewer from Roadie Crew magazine, Daniel Dutra, described Transcending Time like something very 80's AOR (and called it wonderful masterpiece). I thought it very interesting... from the top of my head I can only remember DT making something like this with Innocence Faded.
True, how I could forget it? I really love The Looking Glass - my second fave from DT12!The brazilian reviewer from Roadie Crew magazine, Daniel Dutra, described Transcending Time like something very 80's AOR (and called it wonderful masterpiece). I thought it very interesting... from the top of my head I can only remember DT making something like this with Innocence Faded.
Looking Glass too.
Well if Transcending Time reminds some of IF then
Well if Transcending Time reminds some of IF then
else.
:panicattack: Rodrigo said the album smells bad and is falling apart at the seams!!!
:panicattack: Rodrigo said the album smells bad and is falling apart at the seams!!!
I think they might be the shoes on the album cover. DT knew he would reference the shoes before he did, that's the true genius of the band. :rollin
Haha the most troll comment ever.
end ifWell if Transcending Time reminds some of IF then
else.
I also wouldn't include FII in the category of "oh yea that album exists".
Can anyone confirm if the epic has more classically influenced music than the other epics?
Just received the album THROUGH OFFICIAL CHANNELS (don't ban me!!!), and I'm going through my first listen. Two songs before the end I can already say this is Mangini's finest hour with DT, guys!!!!
Looking forward to your review.
Can anyone confirm if the epic has more classically influenced music than the other epics?
I haven't listened to it enough yet, but picked up parts that reminded me of In the NAme of God, COnstant Motion and Ministry of Lost Souls
Can anyone confirm if the epic has more classically influenced music than the other epics?
I haven't listened to it enough yet, but picked up parts that reminded me of In the NAme of God, COnstant Motion and Ministry of Lost Souls
Yikes that’s not what I was hoping to hear.
I'm starting to dig the title track a bit more. Mangini is ON FIRE!!!! Some of his fills are like "whoa, who dropped the bag of marbles on the hardwood floors???"
Can anyone confirm if the epic has more classically influenced music than the other epics?
I haven't listened to it enough yet, but picked up parts that reminded me of In the NAme of God, COnstant Motion and Ministry of Lost Souls
Yikes that’s not what I was hoping to hear.
Me neither considering I don't like anything in those songs except a few riffs. Name of God has some killer guitar but it doesn't deserve to be as long as it is.
Can anyone confirm if the epic has more classically influenced music than the other epics?
I haven't listened to it enough yet, but picked up parts that reminded me of In the NAme of God, COnstant Motion and Ministry of Lost Souls
Yikes that’s not what I was hoping to hear.
Me neither considering I don't like anything in those songs except a few riffs. Name of God has some killer guitar but it doesn't deserve to be as long as it is.
Today (Friday the 8th) is the “official” day all media outlets were serviced the album. Reviews can be posted on or after October 16. I’m looking forward to reading them. I love it start to finish!!!
I've gotten to the point where I listen to the singles at least a couple of times and then quit after that l, until the album drops.
I was very much looking forward to the album,after all the members' words about it,having the best ideas and best playing,JR saying it will blow our minds etc.
I have not heard anything off the new album,except from a few seconds off the Alien.
Here's something that will get you all excited: John Myung's bass is heard FROM START TO FINISH on the album...and it sounds freaking gorgeous!!!! Sonically speaking, this is their best sounding album in a long while.Glad to hear this! I thought his bass sounded quite present in d/t, and the albums have been getting better sonically. The Astonishing especially sounds great to my ears.
Today (Friday the 8th) is the “official” day all media outlets were serviced the album. Reviews can be posted on or after October 16. I’m looking forward to reading them. I love it start to finish!!!
Today (Friday the 8th) is the “official” day all media outlets were serviced the album. Reviews can be posted on or after October 16. I’m looking forward to reading them. I love it start to finish!!!
Unfortunately that's not the case for all media outlets. We are still waiting to get the promo, and seems like others in our wider region (eastern Europe/Balkans) haven't got the promo yet.
Maybe we're insignificant markets for the record label/band :yeahright
I thought Myungs bass sounded massive on DT12 myself. . .
Here's something that will get you all excited: John Myung's bass is heard FROM START TO FINISH on the album...and it sounds freaking gorgeous!!!! Sonically speaking, this is their best sounding album in a long while.
Here's something that will get you all excited: John Myung's bass is heard FROM START TO FINISH on the album...and it sounds freaking gorgeous!!!! Sonically speaking, this is their best sounding album in a long while.
Any new thoughts on the record today?
Judging by how neatly avoided this area has been on tours... yeah.Today (Friday the 8th) is the “official” day all media outlets were serviced the album. Reviews can be posted on or after October 16. I’m looking forward to reading them. I love it start to finish!!!
Unfortunately that's not the case for all media outlets. We are still waiting to get the promo, and seems like others in our wider region (eastern Europe/Balkans) haven't got the promo yet.
Maybe we're insignificant markets for the record label/band :yeahright
I figured. The Alien is bombastic and frantic to set the tone, I would guess ATC is also heavy and maybe anthemic, and then they needed a change of pace with IM, followed by another high energy song in SGHere's something that will get you all excited: John Myung's bass is heard FROM START TO FINISH on the album...and it sounds freaking gorgeous!!!! Sonically speaking, this is their best sounding album in a long while.
Any new thoughts on the record today?
I'm digging it more and more. My favorites are Sleeping Giant and Awaken the Master, which of course have the DT DNA, but also show something different. The singles work waaaaay better in the context of the album than as stand alone tracks.
how are the lyrics on the album?
how are the lyrics on the album?
I focused on the music for now, haven't listened to it with attention to what the lyrics say.
how are the lyrics on the album?
I focused on the music for now, haven't listened to it with attention to what the lyrics say.
I guess they don't stand out too much :lol
I got an email last night that my AVFTTOTW artbook set is being delayed to December.
So I've got THAT going for me...
Checking to see if anyone is aware of a free download offer with purchase of the CD?
Checking to see if anyone is aware of a free download offer with purchase of the CD?
Checking to see if anyone is aware of a free download offer with purchase of the CD?
Usually Amazon offers a free download if you’re a prime member.
Still another fortnight to wait. This has felt like a looong window between announcement and release. :lol
It literally blows my mind that vinyl made a “comeback” during a time when people are like “come on man, everyone streams music now”. I grew up with vinyl now there’s a shortage? I buy digital and cds for certain releases. The industry needs to make up its mind, vinyl, mp3, streams? :lol :lol :lol :lol
It literally blows my mind that vinyl made a “comeback” during a time when people are like “come on man, everyone streams music now”. I grew up with vinyl now there’s a shortage? I buy digital and cds for certain releases. The industry needs to make up its mind, vinyl, mp3, streams? :lol :lol :lol :lol
In terms of vinyl, there's a global shortage of raw material, along with facilities to manufacture vinyl. There are a very small number of vinyl pressing plants and it is a very specialised job. As such, with the increased demand for vinyl, record labels/bands are having trouble getting them manufactured. Selling them does not seem to be a problem at the moment.
It literally blows my mind that vinyl made a “comeback” during a time when people are like “come on man, everyone streams music now”. I grew up with vinyl now there’s a shortage? I buy digital and cds for certain releases. The industry needs to make up its mind, vinyl, mp3, streams? :lol :lol :lol :lol
I say vinyl is needed in these days of brickwalling and mixing for iTunes.
I say vinyl is needed in these days of brickwalling and mixing for iTunes.
It literally blows my mind that vinyl made a “comeback” during a time when people are like “come on man, everyone streams music now”. I grew up with vinyl now there’s a shortage? I buy digital and cds for certain releases. The industry needs to make up its mind, vinyl, mp3, streams? :lol :lol :lol :lol
For me only vinyl and Hi-Res that are interesting. I'm a qobuz subscriber to listen the releases on 96khz, like A View will be. Alien and Invisible Monster are impecable in Hi-Res. Unfortunately to buy vinyl is expensive in south america, but I'll try to buy the new record soon.
It literally blows my mind that vinyl made a “comeback” during a time when people are like “come on man, everyone streams music now”. I grew up with vinyl now there’s a shortage? I buy digital and cds for certain releases. The industry needs to make up its mind, vinyl, mp3, streams? :lol :lol :lol :lol
For me only vinyl and Hi-Res that are interesting. I'm a qobuz subscriber to listen the releases on 96khz, like A View will be. Alien and Invisible Monster are impecable in Hi-Res. Unfortunately to buy vinyl is expensive in south america, but I'll try to buy the new record soon.
Are there high res versions available of the alien and IM?
It literally blows my mind that vinyl made a “comeback” during a time when people are like “come on man, everyone streams music now”. I grew up with vinyl now there’s a shortage? I buy digital and cds for certain releases. The industry needs to make up its mind, vinyl, mp3, streams? :lol :lol :lol :lol
For me only vinyl and Hi-Res that are interesting. I'm a qobuz subscriber to listen the releases on 96khz, like A View will be. Alien and Invisible Monster are impecable in Hi-Res. Unfortunately to buy vinyl is expensive in south america, but I'll try to buy the new record soon.
Are there high res versions available of the alien and IM?
Thanks. The hi res stuff is next level, I'm hearing a huge difference for distance over time especially
I guess my point is you can stream music on your small phone or play a small pizza on a bulky turntable. Progress or regress? We do not need vinyl, clearly a novelty that makes no sense and is pointless in 2021.
It literally blows my mind that vinyl made a “comeback” during a time when people are like “come on man, everyone streams music now”. I grew up with vinyl now there’s a shortage? I buy digital and cds for certain releases. The industry needs to make up its mind, vinyl, mp3, streams? :lol :lol :lol :lol
In terms of vinyl, there's a global shortage of raw material, along with facilities to manufacture vinyl. There are a very small number of vinyl pressing plants and it is a very specialised job. As such, with the increased demand for vinyl, record labels/bands are having trouble getting them manufactured. Selling them does not seem to be a problem at the moment.
I guess my point is you can stream music on your small phone or play a small pizza on a bulky turntable. Progress or regress? We do not need vinyl, clearly a novelty that makes no sense and is pointless in 2021. Like I said I grew up with vinyl and cassettes and we had no other options until cds which sonically are superior. Yeah I know vinyl has a warmth about it that also packs crackles and possible skipping. Just a novelty like kids wearing Maiden and AC/DC shirts but have never heard a single song. Yes I do know there are some that do but I have been told by my kids friends it’s a fad to wear vintage shirts without knowing the bands music. I don’t get it.
I guess my point is you can stream music on your small phone or play a small pizza on a bulky turntable. Progress or regress? We do not need vinyl, clearly a novelty that makes no sense and is pointless in 2021. Like I said I grew up with vinyl and cassettes and we had no other options until cds which sonically are superior. Yeah I know vinyl has a warmth about it that also packs crackles and possible skipping. Just a novelty like kids wearing Maiden and AC/DC shirts but have never heard a single song. Yes I do know there are some that do but I have been told by my kids friends it’s a fad to wear vintage shirts without knowing the bands music. I don’t get it.Loudness war is a good reason. Almost every single CD release (and online) suffers a lot from it, and most of the time the only way to get around the issue is buying music on vinyl. Some DT records are available with better masters online, but not all, and certainly not most of the music I listen to. A lot of music sounds horrible, and even when it doesn't it still doesn't breathe whatsoever. The majority of modern releases are destroyed during the mastering process, nothing more and nothing less.
I guess my point is you can stream music on your small phone or play a small pizza on a bulky turntable. Progress or regress? We do not need vinyl, clearly a novelty that makes no sense and is pointless in 2021. Like I said I grew up with vinyl and cassettes and we had no other options until cds which sonically are superior. Yeah I know vinyl has a warmth about it that also packs crackles and possible skipping. Just a novelty like kids wearing Maiden and AC/DC shirts but have never heard a single song. Yes I do know there are some that do but I have been told by my kids friends it’s a fad to wear vintage shirts without knowing the bands music. I don’t get it.
It literally blows my mind that vinyl made a “comeback” during a time when people are like “come on man, everyone streams music now”. I grew up with vinyl now there’s a shortage? I buy digital and cds for certain releases. The industry needs to make up its mind, vinyl, mp3, streams? :lol :lol :lol :lol
For me only vinyl and Hi-Res that are interesting. I'm a qobuz subscriber to listen the releases on 96khz, like A View will be. Alien and Invisible Monster are impecable in Hi-Res. Unfortunately to buy vinyl is expensive in south america, but I'll try to buy the new record soon.
Are there high res versions available of the alien and IM?
Can't wait to listen this mix in Hi-Res!!!
(https://i.postimg.cc/6QbbjzTp/photo-2021-10-10-22-54-53.jpg)
Also, every album since Systematic Chaos are available in HiRes.
It's insane, there are actually different sounds on the high res versions. I'm hearing a big difference in Labrie's effects on barstool warrior. The song sounds totally different
That wasn't very positive. I don't think it will be an issue for me, but a bit of a buzzkill. :-[
It's insane, there are actually different sounds on the high res versions. I'm hearing a big difference in Labrie's effects on barstool warrior. The song sounds totally different
Yeah I remember this with the hi-def version of ADTOE, DT12 etc. Usually the whole "MP3 is worthless and FLAC master race is the only way" is quite silly to me but these actually sound different and better. I guess clues / evidence can even be found in HD database:
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=a+dramatic+turn+of+events
Check out how much better dynamic range you get with the HDTrack version!
Yeah I remember this with the hi-def version of ADTOE, DT12 etc. Usually the whole "MP3 is worthless and FLAC master race is the only way" is quite silly to me but these actually sound different and better.
It's insane, there are actually different sounds on the high res versions. I'm hearing a big difference in Labrie's effects on barstool warrior. The song sounds totally different
Yeah I remember this with the hi-def version of ADTOE, DT12 etc. Usually the whole "MP3 is worthless and FLAC master race is the only way" is quite silly to me but these actually sound different and better. I guess clues / evidence can even be found in HD database:
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=a+dramatic+turn+of+events
Check out how much better dynamic range you get with the HDTrack version!
Interesting. For Distance over Time, the dynamic ranges are great for Amazon Mp3 version, and awful for 96/24 Hi Res version. What am I missing?
Yeah I remember this with the hi-def version of ADTOE, DT12 etc. Usually the whole "MP3 is worthless and FLAC master race is the only way" is quite silly to me but these actually sound different and better.
This has little to do with MP3 vs FLAC, though. You can convert these files to MP3s and still have them sound much better than the CD because the underlying master just isn't as brickwalled.
The initial riff of the title track appears to be Morse code. I'm not versed in that language, but I hope someone is able to crack what it means.
The initial riff of the title track appears to be Morse code. I'm not versed in that language, but I hope someone is able to crack what it means.
Couple of new reviews
Metal Symphony - 9/10 - https://www-metalsymphony-com.translate.goog/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-inside-out-music/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc (https://www-metalsymphony-com.translate.goog/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-inside-out-music/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc)
Rock Progresivo - 6.5/10 - https://www-rock--progresivo-com.translate.goog/critica-disco-dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world/2021/10/amp/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc (https://www-rock--progresivo-com.translate.goog/critica-disco-dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world/2021/10/amp/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc)
That wasn't very positive. I don't think it will be an issue for me, but a bit of a buzzkill. :-[
I wouldn't put too much weight on the second review. He says a few things that don't make a whole lot of sense, unless Google translate is messing with me.
He says the two singles were almost 'pure self-plagarism'. Invisible Monster is not my favorite song but I don't hear the alleged self-plagarism. He may have a point on the Alien, but I think that term is a bit excessive. Then later he says ADTOE was an example in which the band wanted to 'do something different or explore a secondary route'. How is ADTOE exploring a secondary route? lol.
That wasn't very positive. I don't think it will be an issue for me, but a bit of a buzzkill. :-[
I wouldn't put too much weight on the second review. He says a few things that don't make a whole lot of sense, unless Google translate is messing with me.
He says the two singles were almost 'pure self-plagarism'. Invisible Monster is not my favorite song but I don't hear the alleged self-plagarism. He may have a point on the Alien, but I think that term is a bit excessive. Then later he says ADTOE was an example in which the band wanted to 'do something different or explore a secondary route'. How is ADTOE exploring a secondary route? lol.
Ha also references several songs as being innovative and magic and none of the songs mentioned are from my favorite era of the band. So definitely not putting much stock into that review.
I don't know how so many of you seem to have heard the album already but i'm not willing to venture into those waters. :yarr :yarrRodrigo and a few others are music journalists, so they get advance copies. I used to enjoy that in the brief period when I wrote music reviews too. :lol
That wasn't very positive. I don't think it will be an issue for me, but a bit of a buzzkill. :-[
I wouldn't put too much weight on the second review. He says a few things that don't make a whole lot of sense, unless Google translate is messing with me.
He says the two singles were almost 'pure self-plagarism'. Invisible Monster is not my favorite song but I don't hear the alleged self-plagiarism. He may have a point on the Alien, but I think that term is a bit excessive. Anyway, the fact that these songs are allegedly copies of older material does not seem to bother him if you read his description of them (though this is a bad thing about the rest of the album apparently). Then later he says ADTOE was an example in which the band wanted to 'do something different or explore a secondary route'. How is ADTOE exploring a secondary route? lol.
Ha also references several songs as being innovative and magic and none of the songs mentioned are from my favorite era of the band. So definitely not putting much stock into that review.
I disagree with this review on almost EVERYTHING.
Not sure if it's a translation issue, but some of the writing in these "reviews" is horrendous....
Another review
The Dark Melody - 8.5/10 - https://thedarkmelody.com/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-album-review/ (https://thedarkmelody.com/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-album-review/)
I got a delivery notice from Century Media - for tomorrow. Are they already sending out the preorders?
I got a delivery notice from Century Media - for tomorrow. Are they already sending out the preorders?
There's no way this can be true can it
I guess we'll see.I got a delivery notice from Century Media - for tomorrow. Are they already sending out the preorders?
There's no way this can be true can it
I say vinyl is needed in these days of brickwalling and mixing for iTunes.
I agree brickwalling and over compression is horrible but that’s why you can buy 24/96 high res files that are much better dynamically (much more breathing room, much warmer sounding). HD Tracks and Qobuz sell them.
It's insane, there are actually different sounds on the high res versions. I'm hearing a big difference in Labrie's effects on barstool warrior. The song sounds totally different
Yeah I remember this with the hi-def version of ADTOE, DT12 etc. Usually the whole "MP3 is worthless and FLAC master race is the only way" is quite silly to me but these actually sound different and better. I guess clues / evidence can even be found in HD database:
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=dream+theater&album=a+dramatic+turn+of+events
Check out how much better dynamic range you get with the HDTrack version!
Interesting. For Distance over Time, the dynamic ranges are great for Amazon Mp3 version, and awful for 96/24 Hi Res version. What am I missing?
Distance over Time is a really strange one here, I agree. Could it be that someone actually posted incorrect info? The normal mp3 320kbps download version shows pretty bad numbers (which is normal btw) and then suddenly an almost identical one at 266kbps shows pretty good numbers. No way to tell them apart since comments have been disabled as well.
Another review
The Dark Melody - 8.5/10 - https://thedarkmelody.com/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-album-review/ (https://thedarkmelody.com/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-album-review/)
And another perfect example of what I was talking about in my prior post. :lol This guy says "“Dream Theater” (2013) and “The Astonishing” (2016) , without being mediocre, showed a lack of spirit and ambition"
Really? The Astonishing lacked ambition? I have many negative things to say about that album...missing ambition is not one of them.
Couple of new reviews
Metal Symphony - 9/10 - https://www-metalsymphony-com.translate.goog/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-inside-out-music/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc (https://www-metalsymphony-com.translate.goog/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-inside-out-music/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc)
Rock Progresivo - 6.5/10 - https://www-rock--progresivo-com.translate.goog/critica-disco-dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world/2021/10/amp/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc (https://www-rock--progresivo-com.translate.goog/critica-disco-dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world/2021/10/amp/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc)
I enjoy reading candid opinions—I'm not sure that Blabbermouth has ever given a record lower than a '7.'
That being said, I tend to take reviews with a grain of salt. It's interesting to read descriptions of songs I've yet to hear, but the interpretation is always going to be subjective.
And as someone who has penned hundreds of reviews, if I feel like I'm going to cite an album as potentially "the band's worst album to date," I give it an expra spin or three, just to be sure. Not saying this reviewer isn't entitled to his opinion, but setting aside the 'lost in translation' effect, I'd be curious to see if his opinon changes in the coming months.
Another review
The Dark Melody - 8.5/10 - https://thedarkmelody.com/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-album-review/ (https://thedarkmelody.com/dream-theater-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-album-review/)
Do we already know for sure who wrote the lyrics for all the songs in the album, besides TA (LaBrie) and IM (Petrucci)?
James sounds amazing on the new album (melodies and execution). I love everything he did on it.
Also Worth saying is how tasteful Jordan's solos and tones are this time - this hasn't always been my opinion in his albums with the band.The great thing about most of Jordan's solos on the new album is that he has finally learned from JP and written some memorable solos with interesting development and phrasing rather than just just improvise something and go with that. The songs are so much better for it.
:tupDo we already know for sure who wrote the lyrics for all the songs in the album, besides TA (LaBrie) and IM (Petrucci)?
From interviews and screen captures we have:
SG, TT, AVFTTOTW: Petrucci
ATM: Myung
So far ATC is unknown
BTW, don't forget that the album isn't officially out yet. We are plenty who will wait one more week to hear it and don't want to know more about the actual music. The ones that does can most likely go to another thread or read reviews.Thanks for the reminder, I know some people get advance copies and others find ways of hearing things early, but you're right that the album is not out yet. I've deleted some of the spoilery discussion - can we please keep it that way until the album is out?
and with that, I'd love to mention that I really love all the art for the album (that we could see in one of the trailers)BTW, don't forget that the album isn't officially out yet. We are plenty who will wait one more week to hear it and don't want to know more about the actual music. The ones that does can most likely go to another thread or read reviews.Thanks for the reminder, I know some people get advance copies and others find ways of hearing things early, but you're right that the album is not out yet. I've deleted some of the spoilery discussion - can we please keep it that way until the album is out?
Thanks everyone!
Actually the album art made me think of a more mellow album, kinda like Octavarium (especially in comparison to the previous Train of Thought and the following Systematic Chaos). The Alien and the reviews read here and there seem however to point out to a darker and heavier album, continuing on the path that d/t set.
Where did you buy from?
It literally blows my mind that vinyl made a “comeback” during a time when people are like “come on man, everyone streams music now”. I grew up with vinyl now there’s a shortage? I buy digital and cds for certain releases. The industry needs to make up its mind, vinyl, mp3, streams? :lol :lol :lol :lol
Kyo,
With all due respect, the minute you said, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," in your review, you lost me. It would be like David Gilmour releasing a new album and a reviewer saying at the start, "This might be the best album he has been a part of since The Dark Side of the Moon!" Throwing out stuff like that simply puts unrealistic expectations in the heads of those who have not heard the album yet. Maybe it's just me, but I feel there are ways to write a glowingly positive review without feeling the need for that kind of hyperbole.
Kyo,
With all due respect, the minute you said, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," in your review, you lost me. It would be like David Gilmour releasing a new album and a reviewer saying at the start, "This might be the best album he has been a part of since The Dark Side of the Moon!" Throwing out stuff like that simply puts unrealistic expectations in the heads of those who have not heard the album yet. Maybe it's just me, but I feel there are ways to write a glowingly positive review without feeling the need for that kind of hyperbole.
[...]and the lack of sappy ballads makes it more fun overall.
I'm not the biggest fan of the albums pre-Falling Into Infinity either.
Images sounds really dated now and Awake is quite sterile and boring to me.
Images is a 10/10
I love the first 3 songs on Awake but then I just lose interest after that.
Where did you buy from?
Insideout shop
I've just received confirmation that my Dream Theater - A View From The Top Of The World (Ltd. Deluxe 2CD+Blu-ray Artbook) has been shipped.. :tupThis makes me envious. With my luck I'm sure the local shop doesn't take into account that the mail service isn't a daily happening anymore, and if so that instantly means a four day delay from the actual date next week. There's no way they would send anything for a while yet.
I will receive it on Thursday
Just for the record: They switched the status back to "pending".I got a delivery notice from Century Media - for tomorrow. Are they already sending out the preorders?
There's no way this can be true can it
They're probably just printing out your shipping label. There's no way they're shipping actual products yet.
-Marc.
Is that pic from Qobuz? Looks pretty cool and I've been buying the hi-def versions of DT since some releases back which sounded really good! Not only higher bitrate, but actual difference in the sound.
So kyo's review is about as exciting as it can get. I wonder if DoT got any similar reviews, I doubt it.
So kyo's review is about as exciting as it can get. I wonder if DoT got any similar reviews, I doubt it.
I know quite a few people who saw DoT as a "return to form" and among their best in a long time. Not being an Astonishing hater, I didn't see it that way at all.
I think my own DoT review was something along the lines of "on the one hand, it's an album with no duds where even the obligatory radio single and ballad don't overstay their welcome, and At Wit's End is among the best things they have done. On the other hand, it's hard to see many of these songs becoming future live classics. A solid album, but also a strangely complacent and unambitious work."
I love the first 3 songs on Awake but then I just lose interest after that.
So Kyo,you think DT15 is ambitious as opposed to DoT?
Kyo,
With all due respect, the minute you said, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," in your review, you lost me. It would be like David Gilmour releasing a new album and a reviewer saying at the start, "This might be the best album he has been a part of since The Dark Side of the Moon!" Throwing out stuff like that simply puts unrealistic expectations in the heads of those who have not heard the album yet. Maybe it's just me, but I feel there are ways to write a glowingly positive review without feeling the need for that kind of hyperbole.
It's a personal view and it's certainly not hyperbole from my point of view. Everyone's top albums will be different. For me, Awake has always been mostly weak and FII has been very uneven. That leaves SfaM and Six Degrees as the main towering classics from the post-I&W years. I don't think any of the later Portnoy albums are great. My personal top 5 would probably be I&W, SfaM, 6DOIT, ADToE and (yes!) The Astonishing. Compared to these, the new album is significantly more focused and more fun than TA. It is significantly fresher and better sounding than ADToE. It is significantly more focused than 6DOIT and while it's a close call with SfaM, I prefer the new one because - again - it is more focused (musically, where SfaM sometimes sacrifices that for conceptual reasons) and the lack of sappy ballads makes it more fun overall. So no hyperbole at all needed to say that yes, I do like this album better than my personal favorites, with I&W being the lone exception (an album that I consider damn near perfect and almost impossible to top anyway). Hence, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words" is ultimately just a matter-of-fact realization from my point of view. You may not agree, but you may also completely disagree with me about Awake or ToT being weak albums where the new one being better in my opinion is just not much of a feat. That's just how it goes.
Kyo,
With all due respect, the minute you said, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," in your review, you lost me. It would be like David Gilmour releasing a new album and a reviewer saying at the start, "This might be the best album he has been a part of since The Dark Side of the Moon!" Throwing out stuff like that simply puts unrealistic expectations in the heads of those who have not heard the album yet. Maybe it's just me, but I feel there are ways to write a glowingly positive review without feeling the need for that kind of hyperbole.
I don't think he is being hyperbolic. As we discussed on another thread, and has he just pointed out, he (and many others) finds both Awake and FII to be inconsistent and sorta meh (as do I). He doesn't think that SFAM or SDOIT are untouchable, and neither do I. So it's entirely realistic that he and many other fans could think DT15 is the best album since I&W. I think ADTOE is a better and more consistent than SDOIT and maybe even SFAM. I also enjoy DoT more than those two...so why can't DT15 be like that too?
Are you implying that no record can surpass sfam and sdoit etc? In order words, you're saying that there is no record for which it's acceptable to say "this is the best since I and w"? I'm making a purely logical point here
Are you implying that no record can surpass sfam and sdoit etc? In order words, you're saying that there is no record for which it's acceptable to say "this is the best since I and w"? I'm making a purely logical point here
No, and I said that nothing that would indicate that, so get out of here with that. :lol :P
I am not sure how any more clear I make this: IT IS ABOUT KEEPING EXPECTATIONS REALISTIC.
Are you implying that no record can surpass sfam and sdoit etc? In order words, you're saying that there is no record for which it's acceptable to say "this is the best since I and w"? I'm making a purely logical point here
No, and I said that nothing that would indicate that, so get out of here with that. :lol :P
I am not sure how any more clear I make this: IT IS ABOUT KEEPING EXPECTATIONS REALISTIC.
This entire conversation is subject to opinion, obviously. If you want my personal opinion about their entire career let me know. Keep in mind I have been a fan before WDADU was even released. My perspective would be different from a lot of fans here. :)
A friend told me to watch the show “Fleabag” because it’s a Masterpiece. That pretty much ended any chance I had of liking the show.
Expectations are everything so I understand the concern with saying “best since I&W”.
However, if he really believes that I don’t think he needs to lie and say otherwise. Just make it clear it’s an opinion.
I would be absolutely shocked if DT ever made an album as good as the big 3 (I&w, sfam, Sdoit). Labrie alone is enough to make that nearly impossible as he’s far more limited. Plus they won’t ever drop the more modern metal vibe entirely so that’s another obstacle.
I have DOT at #5 though just behind Awake. I would be thrilled if the new one tops that.
Disclaimer that all the above commentary is just my opinion.
I have DOT at #5 though just behind Awake. I would be thrilled if the new one tops that.
My only point was this - what if the new album REALLY IS the best one since i&w? Hope you understand this point from logic
Yeah, I get what Kev is saying as well and think it makes sense. If you make a claim that bold, a lot are going to dismiss it out of hand, and it can actually hurt opinions going into the album in some cases.
My only point was this - what if the new album REALLY IS the best one since i&w? Hope you understand this point from logic
Kyo,
With all due respect, the minute you said, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," in your review, you lost me. It would be like David Gilmour releasing a new album and a reviewer saying at the start, "This might be the best album he has been a part of since The Dark Side of the Moon!" Throwing out stuff like that simply puts unrealistic expectations in the heads of those who have not heard the album yet. Maybe it's just me, but I feel there are ways to write a glowingly positive review without feeling the need for that kind of hyperbole.
It's a personal view and it's certainly not hyperbole from my point of view. Everyone's top albums will be different. For me, Awake has always been mostly weak and FII has been very uneven. That leaves SfaM and Six Degrees as the main towering classics from the post-I&W years. I don't think any of the later Portnoy albums are great. My personal top 5 would probably be I&W, SfaM, 6DOIT, ADToE and (yes!) The Astonishing. Compared to these, the new album is significantly more focused and more fun than TA. It is significantly fresher and better sounding than ADToE. It is significantly more focused than 6DOIT and while it's a close call with SfaM, I prefer the new one because - again - it is more focused (musically, where SfaM sometimes sacrifices that for conceptual reasons) and the lack of sappy ballads makes it more fun overall. So no hyperbole at all needed to say that yes, I do like this album better than my personal favorites, with I&W being the lone exception (an album that I consider damn near perfect and almost impossible to top anyway). Hence, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words" is ultimately just a matter-of-fact realization from my point of view. You may not agree, but you may also completely disagree with me about Awake or ToT being weak albums where the new one being better in my opinion is just not much of a feat. That's just how it goes.
Let me explain it a little better: it is not about any one person's of their work; it is about knowing the favorites of the fanbase and keeping expectations realistic. To know the DT fan base is to know that (post-I&W) a record like Scenes from a Memory is wildly popular, and Awake and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence are widely loved as well. So, again, saying, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," is setting a lot of fans up for disappointment if your opinion is not shared by them right away, and like it or not, expectations do often subconsciously affect how fans react to new music. That is all I am saying.Kyo,
With all due respect, the minute you said, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," in your review, you lost me. It would be like David Gilmour releasing a new album and a reviewer saying at the start, "This might be the best album he has been a part of since The Dark Side of the Moon!" Throwing out stuff like that simply puts unrealistic expectations in the heads of those who have not heard the album yet. Maybe it's just me, but I feel there are ways to write a glowingly positive review without feeling the need for that kind of hyperbole.
I don't think he is being hyperbolic. As we discussed on another thread, and has he just pointed out, he (and many others) finds both Awake and FII to be inconsistent and sorta meh (as do I). He doesn't think that SFAM or SDOIT are untouchable, and neither do I. So it's entirely realistic that he and many other fans could think DT15 is the best album since I&W. I think ADTOE is a better and more consistent than SDOIT and maybe even SFAM. I also enjoy DoT more than those two...so why can't DT15 be like that too?
Of course it can, but as I explained above, this is not about what album I like or you like or anybody likes. It is about knowing the fanbase and not setting unrealistic expectations. The fanbase, generally speaking, thinks very highly as a whole of Awake, Scenes from a Memory and Six Degrees (which I demonstrated quite clearly the other day), so saying the new album is better than all three is setting a very high bar and setting fans up for disappointment if it fails to reach that bar.
^And precisely zero of that is relevant to what Kev posted. Again, it isn't a matter of what one prefers or likes. It isn't a mater of taste.
It's a matter of recognizing I&W's status and the band's history. I&W has legendary status that no other album in their history can touch. As Glasser pointed out, it virtually pioneered a subgenre. It was influential in ways that something this late in their career almost can't achieve. So while everything you are saying is all well and good, it has nothing to do with what Kev said.
^And precisely zero of that is relevant to what Kev posted. Again, it isn't a matter of what one prefers or likes. It isn't a mater of taste.
It's a matter of recognizing I&W's status and the band's history. I&W has legendary status that no other album in their history can touch. As Glasser pointed out, it virtually pioneered a subgenre. It was influential in ways that something this late in their career almost can't achieve. So while everything you are saying is all well and good, it has nothing to do with what Kev said.
^And precisely zero of that is relevant to what Kev posted. Again, it isn't a matter of what one prefers or likes. It isn't a mater of taste.
It's a matter of recognizing I&W's status and the band's history. I&W has legendary status that no other album in their history can touch. As Glasser pointed out, it virtually pioneered a subgenre. It was influential in ways that something this late in their career almost can't achieve. So while everything you are saying is all well and good, it has nothing to do with what Kev said.
I don't think he was saying DT15 was better than I&W. I think he said I&W would never be surpassed and as you point out, it has a legendary status that is widely regarded as defining the genre. I agree that is a consensus amongst fans and non-fans alike. He said it was better than 3 later albums that many think aren't anywhere near as good as I&W. No one can say the same about any of the 3 albums Kyo is saying DT15 is better than: Awake, SFAM, SDOIT. Those albums broke no ground and do not have the same status as I&W, or anything even remotely close.
So it is relevant to Kev's post. He appears to believe that there is such an overwhelming consensus amongst the fan base that this group of 3 albums is so widely hailed DT15 can't realistically live up to such high praise. I don't agree at all, neither does Kyo apparently, and a bunch of other fans don't either, so it is perfectly achievable to them. An I&W comparison would be a totally different story.
"Best album since I&W" still implies I&W is better, no? I&W being a landmark album wasn't in question. Awake/SFAM/SDOIT would be the relevant ones here. (Edit: TBW beat me to this point :getoffmylawn:)
In any case, I don't think it's a review's responsibility to echo the opinions of the fanbase. It's one perspective, & if you don't think you'll agree with it when the album comes out, sure, but it's still insight regardless. Take it or leave it.
"Best album since I&W" still implies I&W is better, no? I&W being a landmark album wasn't in question. Awake/SFAM/SDOIT would be the relevant ones here. (Edit: TBW beat me to this point :getoffmylawn:)
In any case, I don't think it's a review's responsibility to echo the opinions of the fanbase. It's one perspective, & if you don't think you'll agree with it when the album comes out, sure, but it's still insight regardless. Take it or leave it.
That is not what I said. Please stop misrepresenting what I said.
This is completely Hypothetical: if I was introduced to DT today being a prog metal fan already and I was handed their entire studio discog I would not say I&W is their best album technically as they have evolved so much since. It all comes down to preferred taste, bottom line. But that’s only my point of view.
You said:
"He appears to believe that there is such an overwhelming consensus amongst the fan base that this group of 3 albums is so widely hailed DT15 can't realistically live up to such high praise."
Which is inaccurate. I will repeat:
That is not what I said. Please stop misrepresenting what I said.
K? Thanks.
This is completely Hypothetical: if I was introduced to DT today being a prog metal fan already and I was handed their entire studio discog I would not say I&W is their best album technically as they have evolved so much since. It all comes down to preferred taste, bottom line. But that’s only my point of view.
In the song. Right at the climactic part.
In the song. Right at the climactic part.
I don't think there's a single errant note on i&w though :lol
I don't think there's a single errant note on i&w though :lol
There is not. It is a perfect record, in every way, triggered snare (which is part of the charm) and all. Eight songs, all of them perfect, and the sound and mix could not be any better. :hat :hat
Gun to the head I think SFAM is their “Mindcrime”.
Gun to the head I think SFAM is their “Mindcrime”. BUT I personally like ADTOE more, and it’s my favorite. Am I saying it’s better than View? …..No because I see View as a greatest hits but with all new songs if you get what I mean. I have said on several occasions that View scopes their entire career.
Gun to the head I think SFAM is their “Mindcrime”. BUT I personally like ADTOE more, and it’s my favorite. Am I saying it’s better than View? …..No because I see View as a greatest hits but with all new songs if you get what I mean. I have said on several occasions that View scopes their entire career.
I think ADTOE would have been top 5 for me if it sounded better, but the muddy mix (especially when it really rocks) makes it a tough listen for me, even the HD version, which is better, but still too muddy. The songwriting was definitely mostly excellent on that one.
The songs Kev. The songs. ADTOE is an amazing album. I don't even have an issue with how it sounds.
Yea such a weird mix. Very thin and thready. Not much bass. Just weird.
Biggest surprise on this forum is the amount of love adtoe gets. It ain't bad but I'll take tot ANY DAY
Rolling Stones did a massive poll on the greatest prog album of all time and SFAM won it. This was fan voting.
I’m sure there are a ton of people who like other albums more than I&W and SFAM but those two albums are far more beloved than any other albums in their catalogue.
It’s fine if you don’t share that opinion but it’s naive to suggest that the Mangini albums are even in the same stratosphere of fan appreciation than those two albums.
I think Kev is simply suggesting to tone down the hyperbole as it may set people up for disappointment. Especially when 99% of the fanbase hasn’t heard the album yet. I think if the album was out and we all have heard it than that strong of an opinion wouldn’t hold as much weight. Right now we are clinging to every word and if you want others to enjoy the album suggesting it’s better than SFAM is a risky endeavor.
Everyone can say what they want, but that is how I read Kev’s comments and he’s correct in that assertion. .
Bosk and Glasser like the album also but have been careful not to make outrageous claims that could influence the entire site before we all hear it. I think that’s a smarter approach.
Rolling Stones did a massive poll on the greatest prog album of all time and SFAM won it. This was fan voting.
Rolling Stones did a massive poll on the greatest prog album of all time and SFAM won it. This was fan voting.
So if I remember correctly, it was a single elimination bracket. I don't remember what killed I&W, but once SFAM was the last DT survivor, DT fans united behind it and made sure it beat everyone else. Doesn't necessarily mean everyone who voted for it considered it better than I&W
Yea such a weird mix. Very thin and thready. Not much bass. Just weird.
Biggest surprise on this forum is the amount of love adtoe gets. It ain't bad but I'll take tot ANY DAY
Totally agree… I don’t understand the love fest for ADTOE. Outside of breaking all illusions and the one chill part in Lost Not Forgotten I find the album to be very run of the mill DT. The production being bad doesn’t help matters either. TOT isn’t my style of music but it sounds way more inspired and exciting than ADTOE to me.
To each his own though! DT simply doesn’t have a dud… they always bring it. Different albums resonate with different people.
Rolling Stones did a massive poll on the greatest prog album of all time and SFAM won it. This was fan voting.
I’m sure there are a ton of people who like other albums more than I&W and SFAM but those two albums are far more beloved than any other albums in their catalogue.
It’s fine if you don’t share that opinion but it’s naive to suggest that the Mangini albums are even in the same stratosphere of fan appreciation than those two albums.
I think Kev is simply suggesting to tone down the hyperbole as it may set people up for disappointment. Especially when 99% of the fanbase hasn’t heard the album yet. I think if the album was out and we all have heard it than that strong of an opinion wouldn’t hold as much weight. Right now we are clinging to every word and if you want others to enjoy the album suggesting it’s better than SFAM is a risky endeavor.
Everyone can say what they want, but that is how I read Kev’s comments and he’s correct in that assertion. .
Bosk and Glasser like the album also but have been careful not to make outrageous claims that could influence the entire site before we all hear it. I think that’s a smarter approach.
It's not hyperbole unless Kyo believes he is exaggerating, which there's no reason to think is true. There's nothing hyperbolic about his review if he really believes DT15 is better. At the end of the day his review is his personal opinion. So provided that, what some are really asking him to do (regardless of how they might want to quibble over trivial matters of wording) is not to state his overall highly enthusiastic opinion of the record relative to other DT records because fans (majority? super majority? some? not sure how many fans are required to be inevitably disappointed by DT15 before we conclude Kyo's review set their musical experience up for failure on Oct 22), and probably they too, really love SFAM and SDOIT and won't think DT15 is anywhere near as good.
And you know what? If you really love those albums that much, a) that is great and b) you can dismiss his review out of hand before hearing the rest of DT15 because what are the chances the remaining 5 songs on the album can top such widely loved records of the past? He said which other DT albums he likes, so that is plenty of reference as to where he is coming from as a fan.
Kyo,
With all due respect, the minute you said, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," in your review, you lost me. It would be like David Gilmour releasing a new album and a reviewer saying at the start, "This might be the best album he has been a part of since The Dark Side of the Moon!" Throwing out stuff like that simply puts unrealistic expectations in the heads of those who have not heard the album yet. Maybe it's just me, but I feel there are ways to write a glowingly positive review without feeling the need for that kind of hyperbole.
It's a personal view and it's certainly not hyperbole from my point of view. Everyone's top albums will be different. For me, Awake has always been mostly weak and FII has been very uneven. That leaves SfaM and Six Degrees as the main towering classics from the post-I&W years. I don't think any of the later Portnoy albums are great. My personal top 5 would probably be I&W, SfaM, 6DOIT, ADToE and (yes!) The Astonishing. Compared to these, the new album is significantly more focused and more fun than TA. It is significantly fresher and better sounding than ADToE. It is significantly more focused than 6DOIT and while it's a close call with SfaM, I prefer the new one because - again - it is more focused (musically, where SfaM sometimes sacrifices that for conceptual reasons) and the lack of sappy ballads makes it more fun overall. So no hyperbole at all needed to say that yes, I do like this album better than my personal favorites, with I&W being the lone exception (an album that I consider damn near perfect and almost impossible to top anyway). Hence, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words" is ultimately just a matter-of-fact realization from my point of view. You may not agree, but you may also completely disagree with me about Awake or ToT being weak albums where the new one being better in my opinion is just not much of a feat. That's just how it goes.
Let me explain it a little better: it is not about any one person's of their work; it is about knowing the favorites of the fanbase and keeping expectations realistic. To know the DT fan base is to know that (post-I&W) a record like Scenes from a Memory is wildly popular, and Awake and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence are widely loved as well. So, again, saying, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," is setting a lot of fans up for disappointment if your opinion is not shared by them right away, and like it or not, expectations do often subconsciously affect how fans react to new music. That is all I am saying.
I am not sure how any more clear I make this: IT IS ABOUT KEEPING EXPECTATIONS REALISTIC.
This is all well and good, but why do you think Kyo was trying to (or otherwise should) manage expectations in the first place? His original post which you responded to very specifically said "here's my personal take on it". There's no possible way to read that other than "here is my opinion".Kyo,
With all due respect, the minute you said, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," in your review, you lost me. It would be like David Gilmour releasing a new album and a reviewer saying at the start, "This might be the best album he has been a part of since The Dark Side of the Moon!" Throwing out stuff like that simply puts unrealistic expectations in the heads of those who have not heard the album yet. Maybe it's just me, but I feel there are ways to write a glowingly positive review without feeling the need for that kind of hyperbole.
It's a personal view and it's certainly not hyperbole from my point of view. Everyone's top albums will be different. For me, Awake has always been mostly weak and FII has been very uneven. That leaves SfaM and Six Degrees as the main towering classics from the post-I&W years. I don't think any of the later Portnoy albums are great. My personal top 5 would probably be I&W, SfaM, 6DOIT, ADToE and (yes!) The Astonishing. Compared to these, the new album is significantly more focused and more fun than TA. It is significantly fresher and better sounding than ADToE. It is significantly more focused than 6DOIT and while it's a close call with SfaM, I prefer the new one because - again - it is more focused (musically, where SfaM sometimes sacrifices that for conceptual reasons) and the lack of sappy ballads makes it more fun overall. So no hyperbole at all needed to say that yes, I do like this album better than my personal favorites, with I&W being the lone exception (an album that I consider damn near perfect and almost impossible to top anyway). Hence, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words" is ultimately just a matter-of-fact realization from my point of view. You may not agree, but you may also completely disagree with me about Awake or ToT being weak albums where the new one being better in my opinion is just not much of a feat. That's just how it goes.
Let me explain it a little better: it is not about any one person's of their work; it is about knowing the favorites of the fanbase and keeping expectations realistic. To know the DT fan base is to know that (post-I&W) a record like Scenes from a Memory is wildly popular, and Awake and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence are widely loved as well. So, again, saying, "It may well be the best one since Images and Words," is setting a lot of fans up for disappointment if your opinion is not shared by them right away, and like it or not, expectations do often subconsciously affect how fans react to new music. That is all I am saying.
I am not sure how any more clear I make this: IT IS ABOUT KEEPING EXPECTATIONS REALISTIC.
But it really sounds more like it is about keeping expectations low, which isn't the same thing. Whether I'd rate the new album better than, e.g., SfaM or slightly below it ultimately doesn't matter to anyone else. Here's what sets realistic expectations without quabbling about individual people's ratings of individual albums: I think the new album is one of the best things they've done in their career, period. It's that simple. Whether it'll end up being your personal number 2, number 5, number 1 or number 12, I couldn't possibly say. And so it can't be a factor for deciding how to phrase my review.
I've just received confirmation that my Dream Theater - A View From The Top Of The World (Ltd. Deluxe 2CD+Blu-ray Artbook) has been shipped.. :tup
I will receive it on Thursday
The fact Kyo is having to justify his statement is utterly absurd. If he thinks it's DT's best effort since Images & Words, fine. It's not his responsibility to manage the expectations of the forum; last time I checked, he wasn't a member of the band (although I do happen to know he's a nice chap). If someone's going to feel personally aggrieved because they thought they were getting a top two or three DT album all down to Kyo's thoughts, that's solely on them, and I would suggest they probably have bigger problems to worry about elsewhere if they let it affect them to that degree.
Gun to the head I think SFAM is their “Mindcrime”.
Then I&W is their Warning, and I take Warning over Mindcrime.
Wow, I haven't been on this forum long but this is absolutely nuts. You guys are so childish. All of you.
Wow, I haven't been on this forum long but this is absolutely nuts. You guys are so childish. All of you.
Wow, I haven't been on this forum long but this is absolutely nuts. You guys are so childish. All of you.
It's not us, it's you, dear JM...you are finally starting to age properly...I've seen some gray, in the latest interviews... :biggrin:
Wow, I haven't been on this forum long but this is absolutely nuts. You guys are so childish. All of you.
"Their best since Images and Words" has no bearing to me because I fell in love with DT when I first heard that album in 1996, but when I heard Awake a few months after, I&W was quickly toppled. :lol Closest a DT album came to my love for Awake was Dream Theater self-titled and The Astonishing, but Distance Over Time finally broke Awake's stranglehold and is now currently my favorite DT album. So in my case, it would be the expectations "best album since Distance Over Time" that I have to manage. :lol
I really really love The Alien now, have listened to it at least twice a day since its release. And while I was initially lukewarm to Invisible Monster, I have grown to love it and even sing it when I played it not as a single but as part of a playlist following The Alien and The Dark Eternal Night.
Addendum: Kyo, since bosk sort of slipped earlier of there being a Rush-inspired tune in this album, and I guess that is Transcending Time based on the snippets, can you tease us with what Rush song it sort of sounds like? :p
But those of you who are fighting on an internet forum over the validity of an opinion?
But those of you who are fighting on an internet forum over the validity of an opinion?
Bloody hell. Not only new to the forum but apparently also new to the internet. Welcome to both :lol
Tbh, I think each of us is capable of ignoring any (possible) hyperbole and still approaching it in our own way. I've spent this entire time of the view that DT doesn't need to "top" anything anymore. Maybe they haven't for years now...who knows? I'm just happy that we still get to experience the thrill of hearing new music from this band. How many more of these chances we'll get, it's hard to say.
Tbh, I think each of us is capable of ignoring any (possible) hyperbole and still approaching it in our own way. I've spent this entire time of the view that DT doesn't need to "top" anything anymore. Maybe they haven't for years now...who knows? I'm just happy that we still get to experience the thrill of hearing new music from this band. How many more of these chances we'll get, it's hard to say.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I guess the way I see it (just one man's opinion) is that while I do expect a certain level of quality, my expectations are tempered by Dream Theater being in a late-career stage. The number of bands who lasted long enough to make 14 albums is quite low and the number of those who released a genuinely great 14th album is even lower.
Wow, you guys.
I thought Kyo was pretty clear in what he said, and then Kev was also pretty clear in what he said. And then 3 pages of, well, whatever that was.
Of course, this always happens around new album time.
I guess the way I see it (just one man's opinion) is that while I do expect a certain level of quality, my expectations are tempered by Dream Theater being in a late-career stage. The number of bands who lasted long enough to make 14 albums is quite low and the number of those who released a genuinely great 14th album is even lower. It's kind of like Michael Jordan on the Wizards or something... Still an All-Star caliber player and capable of a great night here and there, but he was past the point of completely destroying the entire league. Based on TA and IM, I am cautiously excited to hear AVFTTOTW but am open to being pleasantly surprised. :hat
Wow, you guys.
I thought Kyo was pretty clear in what he said, and then Kev was also pretty clear in what he said. And then 3 pages of, well, whatever that was.
Of course, this always happens around new album time.
I got your point, I just didn't think it was relevant to Kyo's post. :PWow, you guys.
I thought Kyo was pretty clear in what he said, and then Kev was also pretty clear in what he said. And then 3 pages of, well, whatever that was.
Of course, this always happens around new album time.
Haha, I know, right? I wouldn't have said anything if I had known so many wouldn't get my point and some would misrepresent what I said, but like you said, it's new album time. :lol :lol
I guess the way I see it (just one man's opinion) is that while I do expect a certain level of quality, my expectations are tempered by Dream Theater being in a late-career stage. The number of bands who lasted long enough to make 14 albums is quite low and the number of those who released a genuinely great 14th album is even lower. It's kind of like Michael Jordan on the Wizards or something... Still an All-Star caliber player and capable of a great night here and there, but he was past the point of completely destroying the entire league. Based on TA and IM, I am cautiously excited to hear AVFTTOTW but am open to being pleasantly surprised. :hat
I wouldn't worry about late stage career hampering DT. Music is not sports. The band members have shown a commitment to maintaining their technical ability and there's been no noticeable degradation is their abilities. A lot of guitarists in particular tend to get distracted later in their careers by other ventures or they don't have the same drive they did when they were young because now they've made it. I am not seeing any of that with JP...quite the opposite. The band can't go on forever, but the last few albums have shown the tank is full and there's no slow down in sight.
I got your point, I just didn't think it was relevant to Kyo's post. :P
I respectfully disagree with this comment as, at least imo, Labrie is not nearly the singer he once was. Unfortunately people age and James’ instrument is literally himself. He’s still a fine and capable singer but i think his vocals alone will make topping my favorite albums by DT impossible.
The first thing that drew me to the band was James’ vocals on pull me under. I was hooked immediately. It won’t ever be like that again.
I guess the way I see it (just one man's opinion) is that while I do expect a certain level of quality, my expectations are tempered by Dream Theater being in a late-career stage. The number of bands who lasted long enough to make 14 albums is quite low and the number of those who released a genuinely great 14th album is even lower. It's kind of like Michael Jordan on the Wizards or something... Still an All-Star caliber player and capable of a great night here and there, but he was past the point of completely destroying the entire league. Based on TA and IM, I am cautiously excited to hear AVFTTOTW but am open to being pleasantly surprised. :hat
I wouldn't worry about late stage career hampering DT. Music is not sports. The band members have shown a commitment to maintaining their technical ability and there's been no noticeable degradation is their abilities. A lot of guitarists in particular tend to get distracted later in their careers by other ventures or they don't have the same drive they did when they were young because now they've made it. I am not seeing any of that with JP...quite the opposite. The band can't go on forever, but the last few albums have shown the tank is full and there's no slow down in sight.
I respectfully disagree with this comment as, at least imo, Labrie is not nearly the singer he once was. Unfortunately people age and James’ instrument is literally himself. He’s still a fine and capable singer but i think his vocals alone will make topping my favorite albums by DT impossible.
The first thing that drew me to the band was James’ vocals on pull me under. I was hooked immediately. It won’t ever be like that again.
Now with that said… I love D/T and really like the two singles. I expect this album to be killer but there are things that get in the way of them returning to earlier album glory. If you became a fan because of TOT or some of the more modern DT albums this is likely to be less of an issue for you though.
I never had any problem with James on Barstool Warrior or The Gift of Music.
I never had any problem with James on Barstool Warrior or The Gift of Music.
I never had any problem with James on Barstool Warrior or The Gift of Music.
It’s funny what people care about though. I could care less if James hits any notes live. I’m only going to see him once a year at most anyways. I’ll be listening to the studio albums forever.
I would much rather James belt it out on the studio albums and make them as great as they can be. Regardless of how that impacts the live shows.
It’s funny what people care about though. I could care less if James hits any notes live. I’m only going to see him once a year at most anyways. I’ll be listening to the studio albums forever.
I would much rather James belt it out on the studio albums and make them as great as they can be. Regardless of how that impacts the live shows.
It’s funny what people care about though. I could care less if James hits any notes live. I’m only going to see him once a year at most anyways. I’ll be listening to the studio albums forever.
I would much rather James belt it out on the studio albums and make them as great as they can be. Regardless of how that impacts the live shows.
What's funny about the audience wanting to hear a solid performance? If the lead vocalist is off it's disappointing.
It’s funny what people care about though. I could care less if James hits any notes live. I’m only going to see him once a year at most anyways. I’ll be listening to the studio albums forever.
I would much rather James belt it out on the studio albums and make them as great as they can be. Regardless of how that impacts the live shows.
What's funny about the audience wanting to hear a solid performance? If the lead vocalist is off it's disappointing.
It’s funny what people care about though. I could care less if James hits any notes live. I’m only going to see him once a year at most anyways. I’ll be listening to the studio albums forever.
I would much rather James belt it out on the studio albums and make them as great as they can be. Regardless of how that impacts the live shows.
What's funny about the audience wanting to hear a solid performance? If the lead vocalist is off it's disappointing.
You’re misunderstanding my comment. Funny/interesting whatever you want to say… I’m just saying that it’s interesting to me that people would rather have the album suffer so that the live performance is better. It’s the opposite of how I feel. I find it “funny” that my opinion is so different in that aspect because as I mentioned before I’m going to listen to the studio album for the rest of my life.
Dream Theater allegedly play at ridiculous volumes live.
You probably wouldn't even notice if LaBrie is off here and there.
A lot of people say they thought a band was flawless at the show - then listen back to a recording and being shocked at how sloppy it was.
I saw them in 2019 for the first time. Yes, it was insanely loud. Yes, I thought James sounded fine.
But Kotow is right .
It’s funny what people care about though. I could care less if James hits any notes live. I’m only going to see him once a year at most anyways. I’ll be listening to the studio albums forever.
I would much rather James belt it out on the studio albums and make them as great as they can be. Regardless of how that impacts the live shows.
What's funny about the audience wanting to hear a solid performance? If the lead vocalist is off it's disappointing.
The want of hearing a solid performance from JLB is not going to be fulfilled. What I found odd about the past tour was his use of that distortion effect on his vocals. That's what I did not like during the live shows. He sounds amazing without it and I personally would like to not hear any vocal effects that can change his vocal tone. Especially if it's something like distortion to make him sound more "gritty". It didn't work and it came across a bit grating.
But his vocals are a hit or miss live and it depends on how he feels, how his voice is working for the day, the environment, rest, the amount of songs sung and how difficult those songs are for the anatomy in vocals.
Most vocalists do not sing as much complex songs as JLB does, and those notes are high notes too that not many vocalists would be a good fit for Dream Theater without making them sound like your generic metal vocalist tone. Such as Russel Allen and Jeff Scott Soto.
Personally, I think the only vocalist capable of doing Dream Theater well in tone and style is Mike Mills.
Rolling Stones did a massive poll on the greatest prog album of all time and SFAM won it. This was fan voting.
I’m sure there are a ton of people who like other albums more than I&W and SFAM but those two albums are far more beloved than any other albums in their catalogue.
It’s fine if you don’t share that opinion but it’s naive to suggest that the Mangini albums are even in the same stratosphere of fan appreciation than those two albums.
I think Kev is simply suggesting to tone down the hyperbole as it may set people up for disappointment. Especially when 99% of the fanbase hasn’t heard the album yet. I think if the album was out and we all have heard it than that strong of an opinion wouldn’t hold as much weight. Right now we are clinging to every word and if you want others to enjoy the album suggesting it’s better than SFAM is a risky endeavor.
Everyone can say what they want, but that is how I read Kev’s comments and he’s correct in that assertion. .
Bosk and Glasser like the album also but have been careful not to make outrageous claims that could influence the entire site before we all hear it. I think that’s a smarter approach.
Rolling Stones did a massive poll on the greatest prog album of all time and SFAM won it. This was fan voting.
I’m sure there are a ton of people who like other albums more than I&W and SFAM but those two albums are far more beloved than any other albums in their catalogue.
It’s fine if you don’t share that opinion but it’s naive to suggest that the Mangini albums are even in the same stratosphere of fan appreciation than those two albums.
I think Kev is simply suggesting to tone down the hyperbole as it may set people up for disappointment. Especially when 99% of the fanbase hasn’t heard the album yet. I think if the album was out and we all have heard it than that strong of an opinion wouldn’t hold as much weight. Right now we are clinging to every word and if you want others to enjoy the album suggesting it’s better than SFAM is a risky endeavor.
Everyone can say what they want, but that is how I read Kev’s comments and he’s correct in that assertion. .
Bosk and Glasser like the album also but have been careful not to make outrageous claims that could influence the entire site before we all hear it. I think that’s a smarter approach.
I understand the point but honestly it's up to everyone to manage their own expectations. A reviewer has to be true what she feels. If the you hear the album and think it's their best to date that's your opinion. How others are influenced by that opinion is irrelevant IMHO.
The only review I care is the one I get to do in my mind as I hear the album. For example, I love Anna Lee one of my fav Dream Theater songs. I doubt reviews on FII at the time or every since share that opinion. The rest are interesting to hear but do not factor one single bit into my experience with the album.
Rolling Stones did a massive poll on the greatest prog album of all time and SFAM won it. This was fan voting.
I’m sure there are a ton of people who like other albums more than I&W and SFAM but those two albums are far more beloved than any other albums in their catalogue.
It’s fine if you don’t share that opinion but it’s naive to suggest that the Mangini albums are even in the same stratosphere of fan appreciation than those two albums.
I think Kev is simply suggesting to tone down the hyperbole as it may set people up for disappointment. Especially when 99% of the fanbase hasn’t heard the album yet. I think if the album was out and we all have heard it than that strong of an opinion wouldn’t hold as much weight. Right now we are clinging to every word and if you want others to enjoy the album suggesting it’s better than SFAM is a risky endeavor.
Everyone can say what they want, but that is how I read Kev’s comments and he’s correct in that assertion. .
Bosk and Glasser like the album also but have been careful not to make outrageous claims that could influence the entire site before we all hear it. I think that’s a smarter approach.
I understand the point but honestly it's up to everyone to manage their own expectations. A reviewer has to be true what she feels. If the you hear the album and think it's their best to date that's your opinion. How others are influenced by that opinion is irrelevant IMHO.
The only review I care is the one I get to do in my mind as I hear the album. For example, I love Anna Lee one of my fav Dream Theater songs. I doubt reviews on FII at the time or every since share that opinion. The rest are interesting to hear but do not factor one single bit into my experience with the album.
Totally agree with everything, including your comments on Anna Lee. I loooove that song. Very Elton John. One of their best ballads ever.
As for the expectations.... 100% its on the reader. Nobody is mad at Kyo or saying he isn't allowed to say what he said. I just personally take a more cautious approach to these things. I'm a huge golfer and when I am playing a course I LOVE and I'm taking someone that is about to play it for the first time, I tell them it's a great course but I won't go overboard with it until they play it. I don't want them to be let down and sometimes an experience can be enhanced or diminished simply because of where expectations were set in advance. Kyo owes us nothing and doesn't need to manage my or anybody elses expectations but we are all DT fans here and I'm sure we all want each other to love the album. That's all I think Kev was saying, and I understand where he's coming from. We don't need to beat a dead horse.... I think we all agree that nothing Kyo said was wrong or bad, and he's completely within his right to make the comments he made. Who knows maybe Kev and I will actually like the new album more than anything since I&W! It's more just friendly advice on expectations. Whether that advices is heeded or not is not a big deal at all. Also, posting here is way more fun than working so some tedium is bound to happen haha.
Rolling Stones did a massive poll on the greatest prog album of all time and SFAM won it. This was fan voting.
I’m sure there are a ton of people who like other albums more than I&W and SFAM but those two albums are far more beloved than any other albums in their catalogue.
It’s fine if you don’t share that opinion but it’s naive to suggest that the Mangini albums are even in the same stratosphere of fan appreciation than those two albums.
I think Kev is simply suggesting to tone down the hyperbole as it may set people up for disappointment. Especially when 99% of the fanbase hasn’t heard the album yet. I think if the album was out and we all have heard it than that strong of an opinion wouldn’t hold as much weight. Right now we are clinging to every word and if you want others to enjoy the album suggesting it’s better than SFAM is a risky endeavor.
Everyone can say what they want, but that is how I read Kev’s comments and he’s correct in that assertion. .
Bosk and Glasser like the album also but have been careful not to make outrageous claims that could influence the entire site before we all hear it. I think that’s a smarter approach.
I understand the point but honestly it's up to everyone to manage their own expectations. A reviewer has to be true what she feels. If the you hear the album and think it's their best to date that's your opinion. How others are influenced by that opinion is irrelevant IMHO.
The only review I care is the one I get to do in my mind as I hear the album. For example, I love Anna Lee one of my fav Dream Theater songs. I doubt reviews on FII at the time or every since share that opinion. The rest are interesting to hear but do not factor one single bit into my experience with the album.
Totally agree with everything, including your comments on Anna Lee. I loooove that song. Very Elton John. One of their best ballads ever.
As for the expectations.... 100% its on the reader. Nobody is mad at Kyo or saying he isn't allowed to say what he said. I just personally take a more cautious approach to these things. I'm a huge golfer and when I am playing a course I LOVE and I'm taking someone that is about to play it for the first time, I tell them it's a great course but I won't go overboard with it until they play it. I don't want them to be let down and sometimes an experience can be enhanced or diminished simply because of where expectations were set in advance. Kyo owes us nothing and doesn't need to manage my or anybody elses expectations but we are all DT fans here and I'm sure we all want each other to love the album. That's all I think Kev was saying, and I understand where he's coming from. We don't need to beat a dead horse.... I think we all agree that nothing Kyo said was wrong or bad, and he's completely within his right to make the comments he made. Who knows maybe Kev and I will actually like the new album more than anything since I&W! It's more just friendly advice on expectations. Whether that advices is heeded or not is not a big deal at all. Also, posting here is way more fun than working so some tedium is bound to happen haha.
Watch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
Watch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
I have to agree with him. JP thinks before he speaks. It’s wild watching this being JP and JM were the only members in the band when I was pretty close to them. I remember when they were looking for Charlie’s replacement, I called MP and JP and played them a demo of a friend of mine, they were stunned. A few weeks later I along with JP, JM, MP, and KM went to go see him live, they were blown away again. So he was asked to demo some tunes and rehearse with them. He was asked to join the band right before they started writing I&W. I was so proud and happy I brought DT their new singer!!! When he was offered the gig, he (also being a bassist) said he wasn’t comfortable onstage without his bass. And that was that. I always wondered what if? Bill’s vocals on I&W would have been outstanding.
Watch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
I have to agree with him. JP thinks before he speaks. It’s wild watching this being JP and JM were the only members in the band when I was pretty close to them. I remember when they were looking for Charlie’s replacement, I called MP and JP and played them a demo of a friend of mine, they were stunned. A few weeks later I along with JP, JM, MP, and KM went to go see him live, they were blown away again. So he was asked to demo some tunes and rehearse with them. He was asked to join the band right before they started writing I&W. I was so proud and happy I brought DT their new singer!!! When he was offered the gig, he (also being a bassist) said he wasn’t comfortable onstage without his bass. And that was that. I always wondered what if? Bill’s vocals on I&W would have been outstanding.
Stadler in DT? Wow!
Watch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
Small world, I went to high school with Bill in NY back in 80'sWatch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
I have to agree with him. JP thinks before he speaks. It’s wild watching this being JP and JM were the only members in the band when I was pretty close to them. I remember when they were looking for Charlie’s replacement, I called MP and JP and played them a demo of a friend of mine, they were stunned. A few weeks later I along with JP, JM, MP, and KM went to go see him live, they were blown away again. So he was asked to demo some tunes and rehearse with them. He was asked to join the band right before they started writing I&W. I was so proud and happy I brought DT their new singer!!! When he was offered the gig, he (also being a bassist) said he wasn’t comfortable onstage without his bass. And that was that. I always wondered what if? Bill’s vocals on I&W would have been outstanding.
Stadler in DT? Wow!
Bill Rogers.
Small world, I went to high school with Bill in NY back in 80'sWatch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
I have to agree with him. JP thinks before he speaks. It’s wild watching this being JP and JM were the only members in the band when I was pretty close to them. I remember when they were looking for Charlie’s replacement, I called MP and JP and played them a demo of a friend of mine, they were stunned. A few weeks later I along with JP, JM, MP, and KM went to go see him live, they were blown away again. So he was asked to demo some tunes and rehearse with them. He was asked to join the band right before they started writing I&W. I was so proud and happy I brought DT their new singer!!! When he was offered the gig, he (also being a bassist) said he wasn’t comfortable onstage without his bass. And that was that. I always wondered what if? Bill’s vocals on I&W would have been outstanding.
Stadler in DT? Wow!
Bill Rogers.
Yep Brewster High School, I graduated in 87 I believe Bill was a year ahead of me and graduated in 86. We ran in similar circles back then. I knew he had auditioned for DT, but didn't realize he was that close to getting the gig. Yeah, I would love to hear those demos I wonder if he still has a copy?Small world, I went to high school with Bill in NY back in 80'sWatch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
I have to agree with him. JP thinks before he speaks. It’s wild watching this being JP and JM were the only members in the band when I was pretty close to them. I remember when they were looking for Charlie’s replacement, I called MP and JP and played them a demo of a friend of mine, they were stunned. A few weeks later I along with JP, JM, MP, and KM went to go see him live, they were blown away again. So he was asked to demo some tunes and rehearse with them. He was asked to join the band right before they started writing I&W. I was so proud and happy I brought DT their new singer!!! When he was offered the gig, he (also being a bassist) said he wasn’t comfortable onstage without his bass. And that was that. I always wondered what if? Bill’s vocals on I&W would have been outstanding.
Stadler in DT? Wow!
Bill Rogers.
Brewster? Wow. Yup, he was almost DT’s singer. He Demo’d Status Seeker, Killing Hand, and A Fortune in Lies. He crushed it! The reason his demos were not included on official bootlegs is probably because he could not be contacted for permission but who knows. I wish I still had my tapes.
Yep Brewster High School, I graduated in 87 I believe Bill was a year ahead of me and graduated in 86. We ran in similar circles back then. I knew he had auditioned for DT, but didn't realize he was that close to getting the gig. Yeah, I would love to hear those demos I wonder if he still has a copy?Small world, I went to high school with Bill in NY back in 80'sWatch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
I have to agree with him. JP thinks before he speaks. It’s wild watching this being JP and JM were the only members in the band when I was pretty close to them. I remember when they were looking for Charlie’s replacement, I called MP and JP and played them a demo of a friend of mine, they were stunned. A few weeks later I along with JP, JM, MP, and KM went to go see him live, they were blown away again. So he was asked to demo some tunes and rehearse with them. He was asked to join the band right before they started writing I&W. I was so proud and happy I brought DT their new singer!!! When he was offered the gig, he (also being a bassist) said he wasn’t comfortable onstage without his bass. And that was that. I always wondered what if? Bill’s vocals on I&W would have been outstanding.
Stadler in DT? Wow!
Bill Rogers.
Brewster? Wow. Yup, he was almost DT’s singer. He Demo’d Status Seeker, Killing Hand, and A Fortune in Lies. He crushed it! The reason his demos were not included on official bootlegs is probably because he could not be contacted for permission but who knows. I wish I still had my tapes.
Yeah, I'm sure MP has better things to do than look for those tapes lol. I haven't seen Bill in 30 years and wasn't best friends with him or anything. But like I said, we ran in similar circles back then, and I have a few friends who I "believe" are still in touch with him. Maybe I'll see if they can ask him - I'll report back if I come up with anything..Yep Brewster High School, I graduated in 87 I believe Bill was a year ahead of me and graduated in 86. We ran in similar circles back then. I knew he had auditioned for DT, but didn't realize he was that close to getting the gig. Yeah, I would love to hear those demos I wonder if he still has a copy?Small world, I went to high school with Bill in NY back in 80'sWatch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
I have to agree with him. JP thinks before he speaks. It’s wild watching this being JP and JM were the only members in the band when I was pretty close to them. I remember when they were looking for Charlie’s replacement, I called MP and JP and played them a demo of a friend of mine, they were stunned. A few weeks later I along with JP, JM, MP, and KM went to go see him live, they were blown away again. So he was asked to demo some tunes and rehearse with them. He was asked to join the band right before they started writing I&W. I was so proud and happy I brought DT their new singer!!! When he was offered the gig, he (also being a bassist) said he wasn’t comfortable onstage without his bass. And that was that. I always wondered what if? Bill’s vocals on I&W would have been outstanding.
Stadler in DT? Wow!
Bill Rogers.
Brewster? Wow. Yup, he was almost DT’s singer. He Demo’d Status Seeker, Killing Hand, and A Fortune in Lies. He crushed it! The reason his demos were not included on official bootlegs is probably because he could not be contacted for permission but who knows. I wish I still had my tapes.
He’s tough to get in touch with these days. I do know he lost a lot of music in a flood. I’m sure MP has them but I’m sure he doesn’t want to be bothered about.
Yeah, I'm sure MP has better things to do than look for those tapes lol. I haven't seen Bill in 30 years and wasn't best friends with him or anything. But like I said, we ran in similar circles back then, and I have a few friends who I "believe" are still in touch with him. Maybe I'll see if they can ask him - I'll report back if I come up with anything..Yep Brewster High School, I graduated in 87 I believe Bill was a year ahead of me and graduated in 86. We ran in similar circles back then. I knew he had auditioned for DT, but didn't realize he was that close to getting the gig. Yeah, I would love to hear those demos I wonder if he still has a copy?Small world, I went to high school with Bill in NY back in 80'sWatch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
I have to agree with him. JP thinks before he speaks. It’s wild watching this being JP and JM were the only members in the band when I was pretty close to them. I remember when they were looking for Charlie’s replacement, I called MP and JP and played them a demo of a friend of mine, they were stunned. A few weeks later I along with JP, JM, MP, and KM went to go see him live, they were blown away again. So he was asked to demo some tunes and rehearse with them. He was asked to join the band right before they started writing I&W. I was so proud and happy I brought DT their new singer!!! When he was offered the gig, he (also being a bassist) said he wasn’t comfortable onstage without his bass. And that was that. I always wondered what if? Bill’s vocals on I&W would have been outstanding.
Stadler in DT? Wow!
Bill Rogers.
Brewster? Wow. Yup, he was almost DT’s singer. He Demo’d Status Seeker, Killing Hand, and A Fortune in Lies. He crushed it! The reason his demos were not included on official bootlegs is probably because he could not be contacted for permission but who knows. I wish I still had my tapes.
He’s tough to get in touch with these days. I do know he lost a lot of music in a flood. I’m sure MP has them but I’m sure he doesn’t want to be bothered about.
Hey, I'm Class of '86 (not from NY)! Can I come to the class reunion??
Crikey. This album really can't be released quickly enough at this stage, can it?
I guess the way I see it (just one man's opinion) is that while I do expect a certain level of quality, my expectations are tempered by Dream Theater being in a late-career stage. The number of bands who lasted long enough to make 14 albums is quite low and the number of those who released a genuinely great 14th album is even lower. It's kind of like Michael Jordan on the Wizards or something... Still an All-Star caliber player and capable of a great night here and there, but he was past the point of completely destroying the entire league. Based on TA and IM, I am cautiously excited to hear AVFTTOTW but am open to being pleasantly surprised. :hat
I wouldn't worry about late stage career hampering DT. Music is not sports. The band members have shown a commitment to maintaining their technical ability and there's been no noticeable degradation is their abilities. A lot of guitarists in particular tend to get distracted later in their careers by other ventures or they don't have the same drive they did when they were young because now they've made it. I am not seeing any of that with JP...quite the opposite. The band can't go on forever, but the last few albums have shown the tank is full and there's no slow down in sight.
As long as he doesn't injure his hands I can see him going on and on.
Some pianists can play well into their later years.
Jordan is the oldest and he doesnt have to palm mute or anything like that. As long as he doesn't injure his hands I can see him going on and on.
Some pianists can play well into their later years.
I saw John McLaughlin (famed fusion guitarist, now aged 79) just a couple of years ago on his farewell tour. He apologized for how slow his fingers were getting.Jordan is the oldest and he doesnt have to palm mute or anything like that. As long as he doesn't injure his hands I can see him going on and on.
Some pianists can play well into their later years.
I was always amazed by how Chick Corea was able to keep his playing level pretty much intact for as long as he did.
Here from a Turkish Rock/metal magazine review the new album. It's short but they noted interesting thing or kinda controversial about James' vocals.
They think, James was a great studio vocalist, even today but beginning from SDOIT he was just there, do his job. No feeling, no touching lines, no deepness (which I disagree btw). But for the first since SDOIT they think James conveys great feeling and does intense vocals.
Well, we all heard two singles and to be honest I didn't like vocals very much and I hope the rest is amazing. This review surprise me because in this thread one of the review says James is the problem.
The rest of the review mentions that this album is their best sounding album and noted that not a guitar oriented album and everyone shines.
Yeah, I'm sure MP has better things to do than look for those tapes lol. I haven't seen Bill in 30 years and wasn't best friends with him or anything. But like I said, we ran in similar circles back then, and I have a few friends who I "believe" are still in touch with him. Maybe I'll see if they can ask him - I'll report back if I come up with anything..Yep Brewster High School, I graduated in 87 I believe Bill was a year ahead of me and graduated in 86. We ran in similar circles back then. I knew he had auditioned for DT, but didn't realize he was that close to getting the gig. Yeah, I would love to hear those demos I wonder if he still has a copy?Small world, I went to high school with Bill in NY back in 80'sWatch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
I have to agree with him. JP thinks before he speaks. It’s wild watching this being JP and JM were the only members in the band when I was pretty close to them. I remember when they were looking for Charlie’s replacement, I called MP and JP and played them a demo of a friend of mine, they were stunned. A few weeks later I along with JP, JM, MP, and KM went to go see him live, they were blown away again. So he was asked to demo some tunes and rehearse with them. He was asked to join the band right before they started writing I&W. I was so proud and happy I brought DT their new singer!!! When he was offered the gig, he (also being a bassist) said he wasn’t comfortable onstage without his bass. And that was that. I always wondered what if? Bill’s vocals on I&W would have been outstanding.
Stadler in DT? Wow!
Bill Rogers.
Brewster? Wow. Yup, he was almost DT’s singer. He Demo’d Status Seeker, Killing Hand, and A Fortune in Lies. He crushed it! The reason his demos were not included on official bootlegs is probably because he could not be contacted for permission but who knows. I wish I still had my tapes.
He’s tough to get in touch with these days. I do know he lost a lot of music in a flood. I’m sure MP has them but I’m sure he doesn’t want to be bothered about.
Thanks! I’ll try as well! I was with him when he was recording them. He has such a powerful voice and sounds incredible live.
Yeah, I'm sure MP has better things to do than look for those tapes lol. I haven't seen Bill in 30 years and wasn't best friends with him or anything. But like I said, we ran in similar circles back then, and I have a few friends who I "believe" are still in touch with him. Maybe I'll see if they can ask him - I'll report back if I come up with anything..Yep Brewster High School, I graduated in 87 I believe Bill was a year ahead of me and graduated in 86. We ran in similar circles back then. I knew he had auditioned for DT, but didn't realize he was that close to getting the gig. Yeah, I would love to hear those demos I wonder if he still has a copy?Small world, I went to high school with Bill in NY back in 80'sWatch out, looks like JP said in the new interview posted, that A View is the best sounding album of the band's entire discography, which would include IaW.
I have to agree with him. JP thinks before he speaks. It’s wild watching this being JP and JM were the only members in the band when I was pretty close to them. I remember when they were looking for Charlie’s replacement, I called MP and JP and played them a demo of a friend of mine, they were stunned. A few weeks later I along with JP, JM, MP, and KM went to go see him live, they were blown away again. So he was asked to demo some tunes and rehearse with them. He was asked to join the band right before they started writing I&W. I was so proud and happy I brought DT their new singer!!! When he was offered the gig, he (also being a bassist) said he wasn’t comfortable onstage without his bass. And that was that. I always wondered what if? Bill’s vocals on I&W would have been outstanding.
Stadler in DT? Wow!
Bill Rogers.
Brewster? Wow. Yup, he was almost DT’s singer. He Demo’d Status Seeker, Killing Hand, and A Fortune in Lies. He crushed it! The reason his demos were not included on official bootlegs is probably because he could not be contacted for permission but who knows. I wish I still had my tapes.
He’s tough to get in touch with these days. I do know he lost a lot of music in a flood. I’m sure MP has them but I’m sure he doesn’t want to be bothered about.
Thanks! I’ll try as well! I was with him when he was recording them. He has such a powerful voice and sounds incredible live.
Holy shit guys, this is amazing. To my knowledge, Bill Rogers has never been mentioned in any interview or book or anything. Would love to not only hear the demos but also any other material he has done. Did he ever release an album with any bands? I collect all of that. I've got all of Charlie's stuff. I even have material from Chris Cintron. He had a pretty cool band in the 80s called Reckless. I later bought his spanish flamenco stuff or whatever it's called. Really good stuff not my thing.
:o
Holy Quote Pyramid Batman ! Guessing the mods aren't doing anything cause they're waiting for me to join in so they can chastise only me ;) x
Wanna work on your French? Here's my review! I'd like to thank once again Noxon for giving me the rights to listen to the album.Could you give us executive summary in English? 🙂
https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2021/10/15/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-la-chronique-integrale/
Wanna work on your French? Here's my review! I'd like to thank once again Noxon for giving me the rights to listen to the album.Could you give us executive summary in English? 🙂
https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2021/10/15/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-la-chronique-integrale/
Classic DT album, very much in line with what the band has composed since 2007 (except the Astonishing). However, well balanced, better composed, a sense of cohension and one of the best mix of the discography. Mangini is the MVP, Myung shines thanks to the mix, Rudess is a bit low and keeps doing improvised soli in one take, Petrucci is really strong and melodic and James is in his comfort range (so no dangerous lines that would be difficult to reproduce live). I think they have learnt from their mistakes from the albums of the Mangini era which makes me think it's the best album (except the Astonishing) of that period and maybe even since ToT (except the Astonishing).Wanna work on your French? Here's my review! I'd like to thank once again Noxon for giving me the rights to listen to the album.Could you give us executive summary in English? 🙂
https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2021/10/15/a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-la-chronique-integrale/
Rudess (...) keeps doing improvised soli in one take
I have not heard the album but I dont understand the review/comments about Mangini NOW being fully integrated. He's been integrated since DT12. Maybe they mean he is playing intricate parts in more abundance on DT15 than on the other albums? Either way that is good news to my ears :)
On an unrelated note, if there is no 3rd single today does that mean there wont be one at all?
Personally, I find comments about jarring transitions in DT songs amusing. That has been a trademark since Metropolis Pt. 1 and even A Change of Seasons.Same. I mean, sure they have plenty of transitions that are smooth, but the abrupt about-face has been there since the beginning.
They think, James was a great studio vocalist, even today but beginning from SDOIT he was just there, do his job. No feeling, no touching lines, no deepness (which I disagree btw). But for the first since SDOIT they think James conveys great feeling and does intense vocals.
They think, James was a great studio vocalist, even today but beginning from SDOIT he was just there, do his job. No feeling, no touching lines, no deepness (which I disagree btw). But for the first since SDOIT they think James conveys great feeling and does intense vocals.
James was astonishing in The Astonishing, imo.
Pun intended.
Why does everyone forget or underrate that masterpiece?
They think, James was a great studio vocalist, even today but beginning from SDOIT he was just there, do his job. No feeling, no touching lines, no deepness (which I disagree btw). But for the first since SDOIT they think James conveys great feeling and does intense vocals.
James was astonishing in The Astonishing, imo.
Pun intended.
Why does everyone forget or underrate that masterpiece?
I’m concerned that the epic seems to be leaving listeners underwhelmed. Nobody seems to be all that impressed by it and that’s 20 minutes of the album..
Based on reviews it sounds like they played it safe with the album but made it sonically great. Sounds like a collection of solid songs but no instant classics.
These are all just impressions from reviews, haven’t heard anything but the two singles and snippets
They think, James was a great studio vocalist, even today but beginning from SDOIT he was just there, do his job. No feeling, no touching lines, no deepness (which I disagree btw). But for the first since SDOIT they think James conveys great feeling and does intense vocals.
James was astonishing in The Astonishing, imo.
Pun intended.
Why does everyone forget or underrate that masterpiece?
Due to it being an entirely different style of album that most people do not have the time for plays a lot into it. This is an album that needs to be listened to with your full attention.
I view it like watching a movie, although it's a musical movie. I can sit down, close my eyes, and imagine the world. I can imagine the NOMACS, Faythe walking the castle halls, and the battle between Arhys and Darius.
Then you have expectations not being met and people being disappointed, as they expected the story or album to focus on their more heavier, metal aspects. But this story is not about those type of moments emotionally. The music plays a different role than your usual songs.
The music in The Astonishing is there to set the themes of the characters. I don't know if anyone noticed, but these themes are used when each character is speaking, and each of these themes has a song that showcases what the theme is. The Answer( introduction bro Gabriel's Theme), Act of Faythe(literally a song dedicated to Faythes theme, and is reprised in Losing Faythe), and Lord Nefaryus (obviously his theme song). And these themes intertwine within songs as well to form different feelings like Losing Faith portraying sadness using Faythe, Annabelle, and Lord Nefaryus themes, which this is the climax of all three of their themes. Whispers on The Wind/Hymn of A Thousand Voices are Gabriel's Theme climax songs. In The Wind, it's only piano due to Gabriel losing his voice, then the uplifting of Hymn is Gabriel's Theme and song "When Your Time Has Come" being sung by the crowd that gathered at Heavens Cove, further uplifting his voice to where they all rejoice and sing.
There's just so much in this album that not many have the time to analyze the themes, moods, and overall connection the music style has with the story.
I’m concerned that the epic seems to be leaving listeners underwhelmed. Nobody seems to be all that impressed by it and that’s 20 minutes of the album.
Based on reviews it sounds like they played it safe with the album but made it sonically great. Sounds like a collection of solid songs but no instant classics.
They think, James was a great studio vocalist, even today but beginning from SDOIT he was just there, do his job. No feeling, no touching lines, no deepness (which I disagree btw). But for the first since SDOIT they think James conveys great feeling and does intense vocals.
James was astonishing in The Astonishing, imo.
Pun intended.
Why does everyone forget or underrate that masterpiece?
Due to it being an entirely different style of album that most people do not have the time for plays a lot into it. This is an album that needs to be listened to with your full attention.
I view it like watching a movie, although it's a musical movie. I can sit down, close my eyes, and imagine the world. I can imagine the NOMACS, Faythe walking the castle halls, and the battle between Arhys and Darius.
Then you have expectations not being met and people being disappointed, as they expected the story or album to focus on their more heavier, metal aspects. But this story is not about those type of moments emotionally. The music plays a different role than your usual songs.
The music in The Astonishing is there to set the themes of the characters. I don't know if anyone noticed, but these themes are used when each character is speaking, and each of these themes has a song that showcases what the theme is. The Answer( introduction bro Gabriel's Theme), Act of Faythe(literally a song dedicated to Faythes theme, and is reprised in Losing Faythe), and Lord Nefaryus (obviously his theme song). And these themes intertwine within songs as well to form different feelings like Losing Faith portraying sadness using Faythe, Annabelle, and Lord Nefaryus themes, which this is the climax of all three of their themes. Whispers on The Wind/Hymn of A Thousand Voices are Gabriel's Theme climax songs. In The Wind, it's only piano due to Gabriel losing his voice, then the uplifting of Hymn is Gabriel's Theme and song "When Your Time Has Come" being sung by the crowd that gathered at Heavens Cove, further uplifting his voice to where they all rejoice and sing.
There's just so much in this album that not many have the time to analyze the themes, moods, and overall connection the music style has with the story.
The only reason I don’t listen to The Astonishing all that much is because I just don’t have time to listen to a two and a half hour record. I absolutely adore this album.
I’m concerned that the epic seems to be leaving listeners underwhelmed. Nobody seems to be all that impressed by it and that’s 20 minutes of the album.
Based on reviews it sounds like they played it safe with the album but made it sonically great. Sounds like a collection of solid songs but no instant classics.
First, I like the epic very much. It has some of the best moments of the album and it hangs together quite well. Sure, it's episodic in feel, but so was ACoS, and I think they use that effectively.
And I absolutely do think there are instant classics here. I haven't even mentioned it before because I deliberately didn't want to do a track-by-track retelling (I find these boring), but Sleeping Giant is a masterpiece and I can easily see that one, the title track, Awaken the Master and The Alien (while not quite on the same level) becoming live staples.
Since reviews are posting, and I know there have been some questions about the epic, here are some thoughts from me:
It is a VERY good DT epic. As with anything that long, it is taking awhile to digest, so I won't even attempt to rate or compare it to other epics. But to compare it as far as sound, I would say it reminds me the most of Illumination Theory in terms of some of the riffs, and A Change of Seasons in terms of composition and structure.
The sample that many of you heard is from the intro. It begins with a symphonic section that reminds me somewhat of V/Odyssey era Symphony X. That section builds, and then into a riff that is somewhat reminiscent of IT and PBD. First "main" part of the song once it gets going has a verse/chorus structure, and the chorus (which comes back later) is pretty catchy.
In the middle, there is a softer section that is driven by JP acoustic guitar and cello. Then James comes in after a bit. It feels a lot more integrated as part of the song than, say, the soft parts of TCOT or IT. The transition into it is VERY smooth, and it doesn't feel like you are listening to something that is a completely different song altogether. It absolutely feels like it belongs. I would kind of compare it to a blend of the Beautiful Agony section of ANTR and the soft "angels fall/heretic" section of ITPOE.
We also get some really juicy DT signature riffing and instrumental gynmastics in the middle.
And a solid, but maybe somewhat predictable sounding closing section. Doesn't necessarily feel like a huge, soaring, epic ending. But that being said, (1) it is a satisfying ending and doesn't feel like it necessarily needs to be huge; and (2) I haven't spent a lot of time with the epic, and it is possible the ending may have more impact, and I just haven't processed it yet.
Overall, it is a solid epic. And I have no idea where I would rank it among DT's other "mega-epics" (20-minute+ songs [A Change of Seasons, Six Degrees, Octavarium, In the Presence of Enemies, The Count of Tuscany, Illumination Theory]). But I am pretty sure that fans that like most of those will like this one as well.
Transcending Time: Single? Rush song. :) Piano
Transcending Time: Single? Rush song. :) Piano
That's good to hear. I love RUSH songs better when DT does it. :biggrin:
Transcending Time: Single? Rush song. :) Piano
That's good to hear. I love RUSH songs better when DT does it. :biggrin:
I do sometimes think of DT as a better, heavier, more powerful version of Rush. Which is a comment I know Rush fans would chop my head off for saying. As much as DT is inspired by Rush I never got hooked on them. I like them but not nearly as much as the rest of the great prog bands I love (Yes, Tull, Genesis, Floyd, etc...)
I'm a big Rush fan too and I don't want to do any head chopping either since it's against the law. :police:Transcending Time: Single? Rush song. :) Piano
That's good to hear. I love RUSH songs better when DT does it. :biggrin:
I do sometimes think of DT as a better, heavier, more powerful version of Rush. Which is a comment I know Rush fans would chop my head off for saying. As much as DT is inspired by Rush I never got hooked on them. I like them but not nearly as much as the rest of the great prog bands I love (Yes, Tull, Genesis, Floyd, etc...)
Big Rush fan here but I hear what you're saying and I don't want to chop your head off :rollin
I'm a big Rush fan too and I don't want to do any head chopping either since it's against the law. :police:Transcending Time: Single? Rush song. :) Piano
That's good to hear. I love RUSH songs better when DT does it. :biggrin:
I do sometimes think of DT as a better, heavier, more powerful version of Rush. Which is a comment I know Rush fans would chop my head off for saying. As much as DT is inspired by Rush I never got hooked on them. I like them but not nearly as much as the rest of the great prog bands I love (Yes, Tull, Genesis, Floyd, etc...)
Big Rush fan here but I hear what you're saying and I don't want to chop your head off :rollin
Holy shit guys, this is amazing. To my knowledge, Bill Rogers has never been mentioned in any interview or book or anything. Would love to not only hear the demos but also any other material he has done. Did he ever release an album with any bands? I collect all of that. I've got all of Charlie's stuff. I even have material from Chris Cintron. He had a pretty cool band in the 80s called Reckless. I later bought his spanish flamenco stuff or whatever it's called. Really good stuff not my thing.Here's a taste https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPSLFIWzFk Hopefully you can find the full demo at the site Glasser provided.
Holy shit guys, this is amazing. To my knowledge, Bill Rogers has never been mentioned in any interview or book or anything. Would love to not only hear the demos but also any other material he has done. Did he ever release an album with any bands? I collect all of that. I've got all of Charlie's stuff. I even have material from Chris Cintron. He had a pretty cool band in the 80s called Reckless. I later bought his spanish flamenco stuff or whatever it's called. Really good stuff not my thing.Here's a taste https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPSLFIWzFk Hopefully you can find the full demo at the site Glasser provided.
With the epic, I kept waiting for that grandiose finale that never came.
All in all I love the epic. And the album, did I say is the AOTY for me? Yes, it is!
Holy shit guys, this is amazing. To my knowledge, Bill Rogers has never been mentioned in any interview or book or anything. Would love to not only hear the demos but also any other material he has done. Did he ever release an album with any bands? I collect all of that. I've got all of Charlie's stuff. I even have material from Chris Cintron. He had a pretty cool band in the 80s called Reckless. I later bought his spanish flamenco stuff or whatever it's called. Really good stuff not my thing.Here's a taste https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPSLFIWzFk Hopefully you can find the full demo at the site Glasser provided.
Song is super cool and his voice is too.
Question: is there any place in the States that will ship this sooner than Amazon? My Amazon order isn't scheduled to arrive the following week but I'm leaving on a road trip the 24th.
Question: is there any place in the States that will ship this sooner than Amazon? My Amazon order isn't scheduled to arrive the following week but I'm leaving on a road trip the 24th.
So . . . no?
Or if you subscribe to a streaming service it'll probably be available there at midnight.PST it's available 9pm.
Metropolis Pt. 1 is as abrupt as it can get.
next 7 days is going to be painful lol. I am hoping that Amazon ships my album early. I am getting the impression that people think the 2 singles are the weakest songs on the record, which would be great.
Holy shit guys, this is amazing. To my knowledge, Bill Rogers has never been mentioned in any interview or book or anything. Would love to not only hear the demos but also any other material he has done. Did he ever release an album with any bands? I collect all of that. I've got all of Charlie's stuff. I even have material from Chris Cintron. He had a pretty cool band in the 80s called Reckless. I later bought his spanish flamenco stuff or whatever it's called. Really good stuff not my thing.Here's a taste https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPSLFIWzFk Hopefully you can find the full demo at the site Glasser provided.
Song is super cool and his voice is too.
Ok, here is something special from my personal collection. I love this demo of Bill. Its from my media fire account. Enjoy!
http://www.mediafire.com/file/h4m0ebde4wb1gts/DOMINION_%2528320%2529.zip/file
Or if you subscribe to a streaming service it'll probably be available there at midnight.
next 7 days is going to be painful lol. I am hoping that Amazon ships my album early. I am getting the impression that people think the 2 singles are the weakest songs on the record, which would be great.
invisible monster is def the worst song on the record
Does the album (especially the epic) have some insane instrumental atonal-like sections, like ITPOE (the reckoning), or that sick section form Haken's Crystallized?
next 7 days is going to be painful lol. I am hoping that Amazon ships my album early. I am getting the impression that people think the 2 singles are the weakest songs on the record, which would be great.
invisible monster is def the worst song on the record
Which is the best?
next 7 days is going to be painful lol. I am hoping that Amazon ships my album early. I am getting the impression that people think the 2 singles are the weakest songs on the record, which would be great.
invisible monster is def the worst song on the record
next 7 days is going to be painful lol. I am hoping that Amazon ships my album early. I am getting the impression that people think the 2 singles are the weakest songs on the record, which would be great.
invisible monster is def the worst song on the record
DEFINITELY! :tup
next 7 days is going to be painful lol. I am hoping that Amazon ships my album early. I am getting the impression that people think the 2 singles are the weakest songs on the record, which would be great.
invisible monster is def the worst song on the record
DEFINITELY! :tup
I actually love both singles. I think you will appreciate them more listening to the album start to finish. The problem with singles, especially in this genre is we have a tendency to dissect every damn note because we are trying to decode where the album is headed. Truth is when you hear the full album you have more to digest and less time to sit with a single for weeks of frustration.
Does the album (especially the epic) have some insane instrumental atonal-like sections, like ITPOE (the reckoning), or that sick section form Haken's Crystallized?
I hope I'm allowed to say this, otherwise please delete!
Yes it does.
Or if you subscribe to a streaming service it'll probably be available there at midnight.
Yeah I use a streaming service. My question was regarding having a hard copy for the road trip.
Has anyone heard anything from lasercd.com about when the art book will ship?
Well if invisible monster is the worst song, then that's great news! I love that song, so it means that it's all up hill from there and the album is gonna be amazing.. :coolionext 7 days is going to be painful lol. I am hoping that Amazon ships my album early. I am getting the impression that people think the 2 singles are the weakest songs on the record, which would be great.
invisible monster is def the worst song on the record
DEFINITELY! :tup
Well if invisible monster is the worst song, then that's great news! I love that song, so it means that it's all up hill from there and the album is gonna be amazing.. :coolionext 7 days is going to be painful lol. I am hoping that Amazon ships my album early. I am getting the impression that people think the 2 singles are the weakest songs on the record, which would be great.
invisible monster is def the worst song on the record
DEFINITELY! :tup
Well if invisible monster is the worst song, then that's great news! I love that song, so it means that it's all up hill from there and the album is gonna be amazing.. :coolionext 7 days is going to be painful lol. I am hoping that Amazon ships my album early. I am getting the impression that people think the 2 singles are the weakest songs on the record, which would be great.
invisible monster is def the worst song on the record
DEFINITELY! :tup
It's better than the worst song on every other Mangini Era album.
Has anyone heard anything from lasercd.com about when the art book will ship?
Hit them up, Ken answers emails pretty quickly.
We start shipping this Monday and Tuesday.
Well if invisible monster is the worst song, then that's great news! I love that song, so it means that it's all up hill from there and the album is gonna be amazing.. :coolionext 7 days is going to be painful lol. I am hoping that Amazon ships my album early. I am getting the impression that people think the 2 singles are the weakest songs on the record, which would be great.
invisible monster is def the worst song on the record
DEFINITELY! :tup
It's better than the worst song on every other Mangini Era album.
Fall Into The Light is awesome!!
I'd take Invisible Monster over Room 137, Out Of Reach, and Paralyzed.
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-keyboardist-says-first-two-singles-from-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-are-not-fully-representative-of-album/
"DREAM THEATER Keyboardist Says First Two Singles From 'A View From The Top Of The World' Are Not Fully Representative Of Album"
"So anybody who's listening to this and hasn't heard the album yet, know that there's a whole lot more going on stylistically than either of those songs."
I think Out of Reach might be DT's most underrated ballad.
Invisible Monster sounds like it could've come off of DT12. I'm honestly surprised at the grief it's getting.
Like DTwwbwMP says, if IM is the worst song, this is a hell of an album.https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-keyboardist-says-first-two-singles-from-a-view-from-the-top-of-the-world-are-not-fully-representative-of-album/
"DREAM THEATER Keyboardist Says First Two Singles From 'A View From The Top Of The World' Are Not Fully Representative Of Album"
"So anybody who's listening to this and hasn't heard the album yet, know that there's a whole lot more going on stylistically than either of those songs."
I feel like JR has maybe heard some criticisms. I don't know why else he'd say something like this. I feel like The Alien is exactly representative of the album.I think Out of Reach might be DT's most underrated ballad.
I think Out Of Reach is literally one of the worst songs they've ever done. :)
I think Out Of Reach is literally one of the worst songs they've ever done. :)
I'm not saying Out Of Reach is amazing, but it has its moments.
I could see Alien being representative. I just hope the rest is a little less predictable than Alien :)
Well, there you go! :lol
I'm not saying Out Of Reach is amazing, but it has its moments.
Yeah, the moment it ends. :PI could see Alien being representative. I just hope the rest is a little less predictable than Alien :)
I don't find The Alien predictable at all. It took me a number of listens to figure it out.
Those are all great songs! :tup
I like ADTOE, but the only songs I cherry pick with any regularity since ADTOE is:
Barstool Warrior
Viper King
Behind the Veil
At Wit's End
Jordan's keyboard playing seems a lot more tasteful on this album, a lot less arpeggio tornadoes, really digging itLets not forget, his keyboard/piano playing is very classy and tasteful on The Astonishing. 💯
What’s the word for “Ive already heard them do this before?” 1 minute into a song?
Fall Into The Light is awesome!!
I'd take Invisible Monster over Room 137, Out Of Reach, and Paralyzed.
What’s the word for “Ive already heard them do this before?” 1 minute into a song?
what song?
I’m curious...when new DT music is dropped on Amazon Music and I click and download it.. does the band even see a penny of that...some albums automatically download and some require payment but most just download automatically.. all of the Lost not Forgotten stuff has dropped straight to my phone no extra cost other than Amazon prime cost
The melodies are pretty haunting yet beautiful on Out of Reach. Most underrated song in the modern DT catalog. It definitely works well as a bridge from AWE to PBD. I think that 3 song stretch is the best sequence of songs DT has put out since ADTOE.
I’m curious...when new DT music is dropped on Amazon Music and I click and download it.. does the band even see a penny of that...some albums automatically download and some require payment but most just download automatically.. all of the Lost not Forgotten stuff has dropped straight to my phone no extra cost other than Amazon prime cost
Less than a penny per stream and not much more per download, but yes eventually they see a few pennies. I know a few relevant musicians that have I have had this conversation with. Bands need to tour to make real money. The albums are merely a vehicle to get people to shows. Sad but very true.
Pfft The Astonishing is my favorite album by them. The riff in "Build Me Up to Break Me Down" is sick. Impossible to resist singing along to "Wither". I haven't listened to "Repentance" in forever, probably as it's a bit slow. I might have to check it out again but I've been to busy blasting "The Alien" and "Invisible Monster"!Fall Into The Light is awesome!!
I'd take Invisible Monster over Room 137, Out Of Reach, and Paralyzed.
Definitely agree. Those 3 songs are among my least favorite of the Mangini-era (love the groove of 137 but the lyrics kill it for me).
I stopped listening to IM after 4 or 5 plays, but I still think it’s better than the worst song on each album since SC (OOR, the multiple really cheesy ballads on Astonishing like When Your Time Has Come, BMUBMD, AFTR, Wither, Repentance). I think it’s a very interesting song but not one that I’d listen to extensively. I haven’t stopped listening to The Alien almost daily since it came out. I think it’s their best song since DT12, and I seemingly love that album more than most do (I’d put it in my top 5).
Pfft The Astonishing is my favorite album by them. The riff in "Build Me Up to Break Me Down" is sick. Impossible to resist singing along to "Wither". I haven't listened to "Repentance" in forever, probably as it's a bit slow. I might have to check it out again but I've been to busy blasting "The Alien" and "Invisible Monster"!Fall Into The Light is awesome!!
I'd take Invisible Monster over Room 137, Out Of Reach, and Paralyzed.
Definitely agree. Those 3 songs are among my least favorite of the Mangini-era (love the groove of 137 but the lyrics kill it for me).
I stopped listening to IM after 4 or 5 plays, but I still think it’s better than the worst song on each album since SC (OOR, the multiple really cheesy ballads on Astonishing like When Your Time Has Come, BMUBMD, AFTR, Wither, Repentance). I think it’s a very interesting song but not one that I’d listen to extensively. I haven’t stopped listening to The Alien almost daily since it came out. I think it’s their best song since DT12, and I seemingly love that album more than most do (I’d put it in my top 5).
What's your favorite song on Dream Theater?
Pfft The Astonishing is my favorite album by them. The riff in "Build Me Up to Break Me Down" is sick. Impossible to resist singing along to "Wither". I haven't listened to "Repentance" in forever, probably as it's a bit slow. I might have to check it out again but I've been to busy blasting "The Alien" and "Invisible Monster"!
What's your favorite song on Dream Theater?
I've resisted pretty easily for over 10 years. It's an OK song on mixed album. Build Me Up is one of the worst DT songs ever, which is somewhat ironic given its placement on an album that is chock full of standouts. The band was trying to make a radio-friendly song, which almost never works out well....Paralyzed being a recent exception.
Pfft The Astonishing is my favorite album by them. The riff in "Build Me Up to Break Me Down" is sick. Impossible to resist singing along to "Wither". I haven't listened to "Repentance" in forever, probably as it's a bit slow. I might have to check it out again but I've been to busy blasting "The Alien" and "Invisible Monster"!
What's your favorite song on Dream Theater?
I've resisted pretty easily for over 10 years. It's an OK song on mixed album. Build Me Up is one of the worst DT songs ever, which is somewhat ironic given its placement on an album that is chock full of standouts. The band was trying to make a radio-friendly song, which almost never works out well....Paralyzed being a recent exception.
Ha, you have stronger willpower than I! Interesting that you are not big on Black Clouds and Silver Linings, I thought all the songs were great. What other songs on that album are so-so for you?
Pfft The Astonishing is my favorite album by them. The riff in "Build Me Up to Break Me Down" is sick. Impossible to resist singing along to "Wither". I haven't listened to "Repentance" in forever, probably as it's a bit slow. I might have to check it out again but I've been to busy blasting "The Alien" and "Invisible Monster"!
What's your favorite song on Dream Theater?
I've resisted pretty easily for over 10 years. It's an OK song on mixed album. Build Me Up is one of the worst DT songs ever, which is somewhat ironic given its placement on an album that is chock full of standouts. The band was trying to make a radio-friendly song, which almost never works out well....Paralyzed being a recent exception.
Ha, you have stronger willpower than I! Interesting that you are not big on Black Clouds and Silver Linings, I thought all the songs were great. What other songs on that album are so-so for you?
BCSL is such an up and down album for me but ultimately there were more down moments. Nightmare is an excellent song but for a few choices towards the end included unnecessary instrumental bloat, ROR, day-after-day etc. Rite of Passage was a snooze fest for me and also bloated. Best of Times has one of JP's most godly solos ever; the rest of the song is pretty good too. I have no impulse to listen to Shattered Fortress given how long we had to digest the prior songs in the suite. Count is decent but has a lot of problems. I loved the guitar work including the intro, outro but the black hole section is just entirely too long. Maybe it's meant to convey the part of the story when JP was asleep? The lyrics were weak despite the fact that I really like the idea of telling a story. Where does Wither fit in for me? Maybe I would listen to it over Rite of Passage but just because it's more concise.
BCSL does have a few standout moments and to be honest I think it has more upside than Octavarium-- an album I think is flat and has no standout moments-- but overall I categorize it in the 3 album slump that ended the MP era (arguably ToT belongs in there too).
I have been listening to View for 2 months now and I can honestly say it’s easily the best Mangini era album which makes it my favorite album next to I&W and Awake.
Invisible Monster really elevates when it reaches this part:
"The serpent inside
Wrapping its tail around my neck
I'm buried alive
Dying to take another breath"
What’s the word for “Ive already heard them do this before?” 1 minute into a song?
Just saw a funny video on YouTube about the new album and it was " Every Song On The New Album "
And it was "Another Day" with a completely out of place over the top drum fill.
I laughed but I haven't heard the new album and I don't think Mangini would do that anyway.
Just saw a funny video on YouTube about the new album and it was " Every Song On The New Album "
And it was "Another Day" with a completely out of place over the top drum fill.
I laughed but I haven't heard the new album and I don't think Mangini would do that anyway.
Can you post a link of it?
What’s the word for “Ive already heard them do this before?” 1 minute into a song?
I think it's "they have a distinct sound and aren't going to change it now/don't have to change it now"
Just saw a funny video on YouTube about the new album and it was " Every Song On The New Album "
And it was "Another Day" with a completely out of place over the top drum fill.
I laughed but I haven't heard the new album and I don't think Mangini would do that anyway.
Can you post a link of it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5ELqvDVDSw
I don't agree with it obviously but it is funny imo.
I have been listening to View for 2 months now and I can honestly say it’s easily the best Mangini era album which makes it my favorite album next to I&W and Awake.
What’s the word for “Ive already heard them do this before?” 1 minute into a song?
I think it's "they have a distinct sound and aren't going to change it now/don't have to change it now"
My issue isn’t with their distinct sound, it’s with riffs sounding very much like other riffs.
Here is my published review (in greek, so via google translate for you) for Rocking.gr
https://www-rocking-gr.translate.goog/reviews/album/Dream-Theater-A-View-From-The-Top-Of-The-World/10270?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=nui (https://www-rocking-gr.translate.goog/reviews/album/Dream-Theater-A-View-From-The-Top-Of-The-World/10270?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=nui)
Yeah I don't understand it either. In the description it says not even mangini can save this album.
Is he saying Mangini is overplaying or that his drum sound is bad or what ?
Pfft The Astonishing is my favorite album by them. The riff in "Build Me Up to Break Me Down" is sick. Impossible to resist singing along to "Wither". I haven't listened to "Repentance" in forever, probably as it's a bit slow. I might have to check it out again but I've been to busy blasting "The Alien" and "Invisible Monster"!Fall Into The Light is awesome!!
I'd take Invisible Monster over Room 137, Out Of Reach, and Paralyzed.
Definitely agree. Those 3 songs are among my least favorite of the Mangini-era (love the groove of 137 but the lyrics kill it for me).
I stopped listening to IM after 4 or 5 plays, but I still think it’s better than the worst song on each album since SC (OOR, the multiple really cheesy ballads on Astonishing like When Your Time Has Come, BMUBMD, AFTR, Wither, Repentance). I think it’s a very interesting song but not one that I’d listen to extensively. I haven’t stopped listening to The Alien almost daily since it came out. I think it’s their best song since DT12, and I seemingly love that album more than most do (I’d put it in my top 5).
What's your favorite song on Dream Theater?
LaserCD/Laser's Edge just sent me my shipment notification email and tracking number for my AVFTTOTW Deluxe box set! Hope it arrives before the weekend, not that I'll have time to enjoy it as I'm working 40 hours between Thursday and Sunday. Honestly, I kind of hope it arrives next Monday then. 😅
-Marc.
LaserCD/Laser's Edge just sent me my shipment notification email and tracking number for my AVFTTOTW Deluxe box set! Hope it arrives before the weekend, not that I'll have time to enjoy it as I'm working 40 hours between Thursday and Sunday. Honestly, I kind of hope it arrives next Monday then. 😅
-Marc.
Same here, just got the same email. Though having a tracking number may not mean much until they actually ship. I've had a few preorders like the BTBAM and Coldplay release issuing out tracking numbers and not having shipped until much later.
LaserCD/Laser's Edge just sent me my shipment notification email and tracking number for my AVFTTOTW Deluxe box set! Hope it arrives before the weekend, not that I'll have time to enjoy it as I'm working 40 hours between Thursday and Sunday. Honestly, I kind of hope it arrives next Monday then. 😅
-Marc.
Same here, just got the same email. Though having a tracking number may not mean much until they actually ship. I've had a few preorders like the BTBAM and Coldplay release issuing out tracking numbers and not having shipped until much later.
On an unrelated note, I like that sometimes BTBAM and Coldplay get mentioned in the same post here. That's why I love this forum... Where else would you find people who like both of these bands? :biggrin:
LaserCD/Laser's Edge just sent me my shipment notification email and tracking number for my AVFTTOTW Deluxe box set! Hope it arrives before the weekend, not that I'll have time to enjoy it as I'm working 40 hours between Thursday and Sunday. Honestly, I kind of hope it arrives next Monday then. 😅
-Marc.
Same here, just got the same email. Though having a tracking number may not mean much until they actually ship. I've had a few preorders like the BTBAM and Coldplay release issuing out tracking numbers and not having shipped until much later.
October 18, 2021, 12:42 pm
Shipment Received, Package Acceptance Pending
VOORHEES, NJ 08043
Your shipment was received at 12:42 pm on October 18, 2021 in VOORHEES, NJ 08043. The acceptance of your package is pending.
Here is my published review (in greek, so via google translate for you) for Rocking.gr
https://www-rocking-gr.translate.goog/reviews/album/Dream-Theater-A-View-From-The-Top-Of-The-World/10270?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=nui (https://www-rocking-gr.translate.goog/reviews/album/Dream-Theater-A-View-From-The-Top-Of-The-World/10270?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=nui)
Thanks! Great review. The more review I read the more I get excited about Transcending Time.
Here is my published review (in greek, so via google translate for you) for Rocking.gr
https://www-rocking-gr.translate.goog/reviews/album/Dream-Theater-A-View-From-The-Top-Of-The-World/10270?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=nui (https://www-rocking-gr.translate.goog/reviews/album/Dream-Theater-A-View-From-The-Top-Of-The-World/10270?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=nui)
Thanks! Great review. The more review I read the more I get excited about Transcending Time.
Thank you, appreciate it.
Transcending Time is definitely one of the best tracks for me, an uplifting and catchy tune.
I dunno, my tracking just updated to say this:QuoteOctober 18, 2021, 12:42 pm
Shipment Received, Package Acceptance Pending
VOORHEES, NJ 08043
Your shipment was received at 12:42 pm on October 18, 2021 in VOORHEES, NJ 08043. The acceptance of your package is pending.
Looks like it's getting somewhere soon. If I'm lucky, it'll show up by Thursday but we will see!
-Marc.
Here is my published review (in greek, so via google translate for you) for Rocking.gr
https://www-rocking-gr.translate.goog/reviews/album/Dream-Theater-A-View-From-The-Top-Of-The-World/10270?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=nui (https://www-rocking-gr.translate.goog/reviews/album/Dream-Theater-A-View-From-The-Top-Of-The-World/10270?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=el&_x_tr_pto=nui)
Thanks! Great review. The more review I read the more I get excited about Transcending Time.
Thank you, appreciate it.
Transcending Time is definitely one of the best tracks for me, an uplifting and catchy tune.
Yeah! One of my friend from Turkey who review the album says that Transceding Time is their Surrounded V2. with a big Rush influence. This make me so excited.
Four more days until new Duran Duran album too! ;DDidn't know they had a new one - thanks, when they're more pop than dance I love them. Hopefully this is full on pop ;D
Album day will soon arrive in only three days time. :metal
Album day will soon arrive in only three days time. :metal
I love this post.
I dunno, my tracking just updated to say this:QuoteOctober 18, 2021, 12:42 pm
Shipment Received, Package Acceptance Pending
VOORHEES, NJ 08043
Your shipment was received at 12:42 pm on October 18, 2021 in VOORHEES, NJ 08043. The acceptance of your package is pending.
Looks like it's getting somewhere soon. If I'm lucky, it'll show up by Thursday but we will see!
-Marc.
Mine did too by the looks of it. Lable created means it's in the USPS system, but haven't received the package yet.
I dunno, my tracking just updated to say this:QuoteOctober 18, 2021, 12:42 pm
Shipment Received, Package Acceptance Pending
VOORHEES, NJ 08043
Your shipment was received at 12:42 pm on October 18, 2021 in VOORHEES, NJ 08043. The acceptance of your package is pending.
Looks like it's getting somewhere soon. If I'm lucky, it'll show up by Thursday but we will see!
-Marc.
Mine did too by the looks of it. Lable created means it's in the USPS system, but haven't received the package yet.
So now the status says shipped! Package has left the building!
Album day will soon arrive in only three days time. :metal
Gonna look forward to all those who didn't receive an advanced copy for reviewing purpouses, but come friday will have detailed comments about the songs and a list of favorites ready :D :lol
Gonna look forward to all those who didn't receive an advanced copy for reviewing purpouses, but come friday will have detailed comments about the songs and a list of favorites ready :D :lol
That's why I'll wait until at least Friday afternoon to post my thoughts
Album day will soon arrive in only three days time. :metal
I just came here to post this:
"Judgement day will soon arrive
In only three days' time
Will Dream Theater get out of this alive?
This remains the question on their minds"
But you came first :rollin
When can all us regular Joes comment on the album? Will there be a new thread upon general release?
When can all us regular Joes comment on the album? Will there be a new thread upon general release?
I was thinking the exact same thing as far as starting a new View thread on Friday. I was going to do it but I do not want to step on Bosk toes unless he's cool with it.
I dunno, my tracking just updated to say this:QuoteOctober 18, 2021, 12:42 pm
Shipment Received, Package Acceptance Pending
VOORHEES, NJ 08043
Your shipment was received at 12:42 pm on October 18, 2021 in VOORHEES, NJ 08043. The acceptance of your package is pending.
Looks like it's getting somewhere soon. If I'm lucky, it'll show up by Thursday but we will see!
-Marc.
Mine did too by the looks of it. Lable created means it's in the USPS system, but haven't received the package yet.
So now the status says shipped! Package has left the building!
So pumped for this album!!
So pumped for this album!!
Maybe you can post a pic of you drinking Ovaltine while listening to it?
Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
I dunno, my tracking just updated to say this:QuoteOctober 18, 2021, 12:42 pm
Shipment Received, Package Acceptance Pending
VOORHEES, NJ 08043
Your shipment was received at 12:42 pm on October 18, 2021 in VOORHEES, NJ 08043. The acceptance of your package is pending.
Looks like it's getting somewhere soon. If I'm lucky, it'll show up by Thursday but we will see!
-Marc.
Mine did too by the looks of it. Lable created means it's in the USPS system, but haven't received the package yet.
So now the status says shipped! Package has left the building!
Nice! :tup My tracking number *finally* updated and says it'll arrive on Monday (as I predicted), which is honestly fine by me considering my busy weekend with work. I can be home when it arrives and not let it sit on my porch all afternoon/evening.
-Marc.
Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
Before the album drops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0_cRS5g8Qc
Before the album drops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0_cRS5g8Qc
That was pretty good. Did you make that? If so kudos on making it fit. Gotta admire JLB for singing it in key pretty much without any reference I'm assuming.
Before the album drops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0_cRS5g8Qc
Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
DTS and LPCM 5.1 mixes and LPCM stereo mixes. Instrumental mixes are on the 2nd CD but not the Blu-Ray. A 37 minute documentary is also on the BR disc.
Ordered directly from century media and still dont have shipping confirmation. >:( :censored
DTS and LPCM 5.1 mixes and LPCM stereo mixes. Instrumental mixes are on the 2nd CD but not the Blu-Ray. A 37 minute documentary is also on the BR disc.
Cool, so the waveforms you mentioned are the same across all audio streams?
Ordered directly from century media and still dont have shipping confirmation. >:( :censored
Don't worry, I ordered from there too and haven't gotten an email either.
Which I suspected because it's century media. :facepalm:
But I wanted the Artbook.
Don't hold me to this, as I only had to time check out the pics in the book, but James pens the first two songs, Myung has one and JP does the rest, including the epic.
I've been wandering, since the songs are pretty long, they did not split them into segments / sections like with the Killing Hand or Lines in The Sand, did they?
DTS and LPCM 5.1 mixes and LPCM stereo mixes. Instrumental mixes are on the 2nd CD but not the Blu-Ray. A 37 minute documentary is also on the BR disc.
I already have my plan of listening to this album.
Tomorrow at 10pm, I will be listening on Spotify, then at 12, when my download becomes available, I'll import that to my FIIO and listen in my ride all day Friday.
Man, tomorrow gonna be a long day.
Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
DT12 is a massive improvement (as is Dramatic Turn (and BC/SL and SC from the MP era), but the best version of D/T is on the audio bluray. (I know, because I own them all)Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
Are the HDTracks version of DT12 and DoT significantly better? The previews for DT12 sound good to me but that could also be some kind of psychological bias at work.
Spending $35 for both is hard to justify unless it's a significant improvement. But on the other hand I know your pain with the CD masters.
DT12 is a massive improvement (as is Dramatic Turn (and BC/SL and SC from the MP era), but the best version of D/T is on the audio bluray. (I know, because I own them all)Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
Are the HDTracks version of DT12 and DoT significantly better? The previews for DT12 sound good to me but that could also be some kind of psychological bias at work.
Spending $35 for both is hard to justify unless it's a significant improvement. But on the other hand I know your pain with the CD masters.
I wish I could get excited as everyone else to hear this. I'll purchase it over the weekend and probably a quiet Sunday night listen will be in order.
I wish I could get excited as everyone else to hear this. I'll purchase it over the weekend and probably a quiet Sunday night listen will be in order.
I think that if you don't like it, then you have probably grown out of DT.
What was the last thing you actually liked by them?
DT12 is a massive improvement (as is Dramatic Turn (and BC/SL and SC from the MP era), but the best version of D/T is on the audio bluray. (I know, because I own them all)Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
Are the HDTracks version of DT12 and DoT significantly better? The previews for DT12 sound good to me but that could also be some kind of psychological bias at work.
Spending $35 for both is hard to justify unless it's a significant improvement. But on the other hand I know your pain with the CD masters.
I can concur. The HD Tracks versions of SC, BC&SL, ADTOE, and DT12 are all superior and have been my only version of them on any device for years now. I never did keep up with the HD Tracks after DT12, so I'm not sure if there's one for The Astonishing (despite how little I listen to that album to begin with), but if the BD audio for DOT is better, I need to find a way to get a rip of that. I own the big deluxe box set but I don't have a BD player to rip it from. Hopefully there's a decent digital HD version of AVFTTOTW that I can get. I think I read earlier in this thread that the audio on the BD is better? Can someone confirm this?
-Marc.
I wish I could get excited as everyone else to hear this. I'll purchase it over the weekend and probably a quiet Sunday night listen will be in order.
I think that if you don't like it, then you have probably grown out of DT.
What was the last thing you actually liked by them?
DOT. I don't revisit it but really liked it when it came out.
Outgrowing DT could be on the cards though.
I wish I could get excited as everyone else to hear this. I'll purchase it over the weekend and probably a quiet Sunday night listen will be in order.
I wish I could get excited as everyone else to hear this. I'll purchase it over the weekend and probably a quiet Sunday night listen will be in order.
I think that if you don't like it, then you have probably grown out of DT.
What was the last thing you actually liked by them?
DOT. I don't revisit it but really liked it when it came out.
Outgrowing DT could be on the cards though.
I think if you liked the "thickness" of Pale Blue Dot or S2N, you should like this.
I wish I could get excited as everyone else to hear this. I'll purchase it over the weekend and probably a quiet Sunday night listen will be in order.
I’m looking forward to your thoughts/first impressions. It took me 2 months to really absorb it.
I wish I could get excited as everyone else to hear this. I'll purchase it over the weekend and probably a quiet Sunday night listen will be in order.
I’m looking forward to your thoughts/first impressions. It took me 2 months to really absorb it.
I admit I have been pretty open and harsh on my thoughts on the singles but will of course post thoughts and really go into it with a fresh state of mind. I don't want what's in my head at the moment still there going into the album if I can help it.
DT12 is a massive improvement (as is Dramatic Turn (and BC/SL and SC from the MP era), but the best version of D/T is on the audio bluray. (I know, because I own them all)Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
Are the HDTracks version of DT12 and DoT significantly better? The previews for DT12 sound good to me but that could also be some kind of psychological bias at work.
Spending $35 for both is hard to justify unless it's a significant improvement. But on the other hand I know your pain with the CD masters.
I can concur. The HD Tracks versions of SC, BC&SL, ADTOE, and DT12 are all superior and have been my only version of them on any device for years now. I never did keep up with the HD Tracks after DT12, so I'm not sure if there's one for The Astonishing (despite how little I listen to that album to begin with), but if the BD audio for DOT is better, I need to find a way to get a rip of that. I own the big deluxe box set but I don't have a BD player to rip it from. Hopefully there's a decent digital HD version of AVFTTOTW that I can get. I think I read earlier in this thread that the audio on the BD is better? Can someone confirm this?
-Marc.
In what ways can you explain how the Systematic Chaos HD version is better than the cd?
Promised my dad I'd wait to listen for the first time until he's with me, so I can't listen til around noon on Saturday.
I'm a man of my word but damn, friday is going to be tricky to get through! :lol
Promised my dad I'd wait to listen for the first time until he's with me, so I can't listen til around noon on Saturday.
I'm a man of my word but damn, friday is going to be tricky to get through! :lol
How old is your Dad?
Promised my dad I'd wait to listen for the first time until he's with me, so I can't listen til around noon on Saturday.
I'm a man of my word but damn, friday is going to be tricky to get through! :lol
How old is your Dad?
49
DT12 is a massive improvement (as is Dramatic Turn (and BC/SL and SC from the MP era), but the best version of D/T is on the audio bluray. (I know, because I own them all)Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
Are the HDTracks version of DT12 and DoT significantly better? The previews for DT12 sound good to me but that could also be some kind of psychological bias at work.
Spending $35 for both is hard to justify unless it's a significant improvement. But on the other hand I know your pain with the CD masters.
I can concur. The HD Tracks versions of SC, BC&SL, ADTOE, and DT12 are all superior and have been my only version of them on any device for years now. I never did keep up with the HD Tracks after DT12, so I'm not sure if there's one for The Astonishing (despite how little I listen to that album to begin with), but if the BD audio for DOT is better, I need to find a way to get a rip of that. I own the big deluxe box set but I don't have a BD player to rip it from. Hopefully there's a decent digital HD version of AVFTTOTW that I can get. I think I read earlier in this thread that the audio on the BD is better? Can someone confirm this?
-Marc.
In what ways can you explain how the Systematic Chaos HD version is better than the cd?
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Dream+Theater&album=Systematic+Chaos
Looking at the average DR levels for the original CD and the HD Tracks versions, the former sits at 6 while the latter is around 10. You can even see the difference in other albums, like the self-titled one (https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Dream+Theater&album=Dream+Theater), where the HD Tracks versions has an average DR of 12 (compared to the CD's 6), which has the most improved DR over any of the albums that have been released through HD Tracks. Nearly all of DT's studio albums after FII have had poor DR, and their first two releases have the best DR of all of their albums on CD. Of course, most HD digital and vinyl formats have much better DR, but because of the loudness war, anything released by anyone but Steven Wilson tends to get brickwalled to hell and back, but unless you have an ear for dynamic range or own a very high-def stereo system to play music on, it might not matter to most listeners, especially if you stream or listen to music on less-than-professional audio equipment.
-Marc.
Whoa, he's my age. Class of 1990Promised my dad I'd wait to listen for the first time until he's with me, so I can't listen til around noon on Saturday.
I'm a man of my word but damn, friday is going to be tricky to get through! :lol
How old is your Dad?
49
DT12 is a massive improvement (as is Dramatic Turn (and BC/SL and SC from the MP era), but the best version of D/T is on the audio bluray. (I know, because I own them all)Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
Are the HDTracks version of DT12 and DoT significantly better? The previews for DT12 sound good to me but that could also be some kind of psychological bias at work.
Spending $35 for both is hard to justify unless it's a significant improvement. But on the other hand I know your pain with the CD masters.
I can concur. The HD Tracks versions of SC, BC&SL, ADTOE, and DT12 are all superior and have been my only version of them on any device for years now. I never did keep up with the HD Tracks after DT12, so I'm not sure if there's one for The Astonishing (despite how little I listen to that album to begin with), but if the BD audio for DOT is better, I need to find a way to get a rip of that. I own the big deluxe box set but I don't have a BD player to rip it from. Hopefully there's a decent digital HD version of AVFTTOTW that I can get. I think I read earlier in this thread that the audio on the BD is better? Can someone confirm this?
-Marc.
In what ways can you explain how the Systematic Chaos HD version is better than the cd?
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Dream+Theater&album=Systematic+Chaos
Looking at the average DR levels for the original CD and the HD Tracks versions, the former sits at 6 while the latter is around 10. You can even see the difference in other albums, like the self-titled one (https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Dream+Theater&album=Dream+Theater), where the HD Tracks versions has an average DR of 12 (compared to the CD's 6), which has the most improved DR over any of the albums that have been released through HD Tracks. Nearly all of DT's studio albums after FII have had poor DR, and their first two releases have the best DR of all of their albums on CD. Of course, most HD digital and vinyl formats have much better DR, but because of the loudness war, anything released by anyone but Steven Wilson tends to get brickwalled to hell and back, but unless you have an ear for dynamic range or own a very high-def stereo system to play music on, it might not matter to most listeners, especially if you stream or listen to music on less-than-professional audio equipment.
-Marc.
Thanks for that explaination.
I meant what's the differences you hear in terms of things like Louder Bass, Keyboards are more audible, The sound breathes allowing more hidden sounds to come upfront?...
Things like this would help me determine whether to purchase the HD versions, more so than looking at Wave Forms. They give me a sense that there is more breathing room, but not what sounds are exactly breathing more better.
DT12 is a massive improvement (as is Dramatic Turn (and BC/SL and SC from the MP era), but the best version of D/T is on the audio bluray. (I know, because I own them all)Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
Are the HDTracks version of DT12 and DoT significantly better? The previews for DT12 sound good to me but that could also be some kind of psychological bias at work.
Spending $35 for both is hard to justify unless it's a significant improvement. But on the other hand I know your pain with the CD masters.
I can concur. The HD Tracks versions of SC, BC&SL, ADTOE, and DT12 are all superior and have been my only version of them on any device for years now. I never did keep up with the HD Tracks after DT12, so I'm not sure if there's one for The Astonishing (despite how little I listen to that album to begin with), but if the BD audio for DOT is better, I need to find a way to get a rip of that. I own the big deluxe box set but I don't have a BD player to rip it from. Hopefully there's a decent digital HD version of AVFTTOTW that I can get. I think I read earlier in this thread that the audio on the BD is better? Can someone confirm this?
-Marc.
In what ways can you explain how the Systematic Chaos HD version is better than the cd?
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Dream+Theater&album=Systematic+Chaos
Looking at the average DR levels for the original CD and the HD Tracks versions, the former sits at 6 while the latter is around 10. You can even see the difference in other albums, like the self-titled one (https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Dream+Theater&album=Dream+Theater), where the HD Tracks versions has an average DR of 12 (compared to the CD's 6), which has the most improved DR over any of the albums that have been released through HD Tracks. Nearly all of DT's studio albums after FII have had poor DR, and their first two releases have the best DR of all of their albums on CD. Of course, most HD digital and vinyl formats have much better DR, but because of the loudness war, anything released by anyone but Steven Wilson tends to get brickwalled to hell and back, but unless you have an ear for dynamic range or own a very high-def stereo system to play music on, it might not matter to most listeners, especially if you stream or listen to music on less-than-professional audio equipment.
-Marc.
Thanks for that explaination.
I meant what's the differences you hear in terms of things like Louder Bass, Keyboards are more audible, The sound breathes allowing more hidden sounds to come upfront?...
Things like this would help me determine whether to purchase the HD versions, more so than looking at Wave Forms. They give me a sense that there is more breathing room, but not what sounds are exactly breathing more better.
IIRC, back when I first got them awhile ago, around the time that ADTOE or DT12 came out, I remember doing some A/B'ing of the CD and the HD Tracks files, and noticed that the bigger dynamic range allowed for the instruments to have a bit more space, rather than everything sounding like it was loud for the sake of being loud. But it has been some years since I've heard the original CD so I can't really recall what the differences are, especially since my ears have been so used to the HD Tracks versions of SC/BC&SL/ADTOE/DT12. I think for some albums/songs, there is some noticeable clarity in the HD Tracks versions, but hearing those differences might be different from person to person. It's a shame there's no way to preview their tracks on their site, AFAIK, and it's really a blind-buy, but I think if a majority of fans here can attest to the better sound quality of the HD Tracks, I'd say its worth investing in, especially if you think you'll be listening to Dream Theater for a long time to come. Sorry I can't be more specific or helpful!
-Marc.
Received my artbook from Laser CD yesterday. A beautiful package with some very cool images. I ripped the Blu-Ray last night to add the Hi-Res files to my library, and out of curiosity, I opened them in my DAW. The waveforms were a complete crew cut across the board. I don't get balled up over DR numbers, but I'm very disappointed that they did this, especially with the Blu-Ray. They have never done this with any of their previous Blu-Ray releases, so I don't understand why they chose to slam any sense of dynamics out of this release. I'll be ripping the CD later today, but don't expect it to be any different. I hope the musical content makes up for this mastering. What a shame.That sounds really disappointing. It's shameful how most bands release a brickwalled version of their music, and most don't provide a different option. There is simply no excuse. Why brickwall so hard in the first place? There's nothing to gain, but the product quality suffers. There are records that I can't listen to at all, including the CD versions of DT12 and DOT. They're literally broken IMO.
If the HD Tracks version turns out to be different, I'll have to pull the trigger on that, but for now, I'm bummed.
DanLore
That is definitely disappointing. I was considering holding off and getting just the HD version of this one this time, instead of wasting my money again on the normal release that I never end up listening to because of how it sounds. Wonder if the HD version will be available right away?
Promised my dad I'd wait to listen for the first time until he's with me, so I can't listen til around noon on Saturday.
I'm a man of my word but damn, friday is going to be tricky to get through! :lol
How old is your Dad?
49
Promised my dad I'd wait to listen for the first time until he's with me, so I can't listen til around noon on Saturday.
I'm a man of my word but damn, friday is going to be tricky to get through! :lol
How old is your Dad?
49
You’re dad is 2 years younger than me, Damn I’m old. Lol. I love that this forum has generational fans.
Promised my dad I'd wait to listen for the first time until he's with me, so I can't listen til around noon on Saturday.
I'm a man of my word but damn, friday is going to be tricky to get through! :lol
How old is your Dad?
49
You’re dad is 2 years younger than me, Damn I’m old. Lol. I love that this forum has generational fans.
Then you're 2 years younger than me! :lol
I think my dad really got into DT around Octavarium. He saw DT for the first time on that tour in Colombia when he was there on vacation (We live in America, he just planned to see DT during his trip).
But yeah, he's been a fan for a while, haha.
I love the wide range of ages on here! I'm sure I'm in the younger chunk but it's cool to have such a wide range. I'm only 17! Got into the band in early 2019 (right before DoT came out).
26 here, but got into DT when I was 14. Haven't looked back since :metal
Whoa, he's my age. Class of 1990n00b
I was 21 years old when I first got into DT, when I&W came out. :metal
A View From The Top Of The World is a first rate album. Definitely NO NEW GROUND broken here, but IMO, it's the best Mangini era album. Speaking of MM, this is the first album where we really get to hear the power of his drumming! This is NOT a "throwback" album at all. It fits squarely in with the sound of everything since ADTOE, just definitely better produced and with crystal clear sound. The two songs already released are certainly the weakest on the record, especially "Invisible Monster". This is a solid 9/10 for me and my album of the year (just edging out SENJUTSO & MARCHING IN TIME).
Highlights:
JP & MM
Minor Complaints:
Lyrics & melodies for many of the songs
So you gotta be talking about your senior year in college? I was talking about High school class 90. ;)Whoa, he's my age. Class of 1990n00b
I was 21 years old when I first got into DT, when I&W came out. :metal
I'm the same age and got into them the summer before my senior year! :biggrin:
It's a heavy album and it also isn't. I don't know how to explain it. When it gets heavy, it is menacing, but the impression of each song is that it wasn't all about heaviness, which is something I personally like as I am more into the proggy side of DT. And that's another thing. I think there is definitely more variety here.
It's a heavy album and it also isn't. I don't know how to explain it. When it gets heavy, it is menacing, but the impression of each song is that it wasn't all about heaviness, which is something I personally like as I am more into the proggy side of DT. And that's another thing. I think there is definitely more variety here.
This is why I love Octavarium. The heavy stuff is super heavy but the whole album is quite light and airy and varied sounding.
IM is easily the worst song on the album.
IM is easily the worst song on the album.
I don't really get why IM was so poorly received. I actually like its Pull Me Under-like vibe a lot.
A View From The Top Of The World is a first rate album. Definitely NO NEW GROUND broken here, but IMO, it's the best Mangini era album. Speaking of MM, this is the first album where we really get to hear the power of his drumming! This is NOT a "throwback" album at all. It fits squarely in with the sound of everything since ADTOE, just definitely better produced and with crystal clear sound. The two songs already released are certainly the weakest on the record, especially "Invisible Monster". This is a solid 9/10 for me and my album of the year (just edging out SENJUTSO & MARCHING IN TIME).
Highlights:
JP & MM
Minor Complaints:
Lyrics & melodies for many of the songs
I'm glad to hear that people are talking about the dynamic range of the upcoming release. If anyone is interested, Apple Music does have the BluRay version of Distance Over Time, as well as the HDTracks version of A Dramatic Turn of Events and Systematic Chaos. These all have higher DR values than the standard masterings.
However, the versions of the self-titled and Black Clouds & Silver Linings on Apple Music are the standard CD versions (despite dynamic HDTracks versions of those also existing). It will be interesting to see what they publish on Apple Music (and other streaming services).
How are you able to tell which version these are? Not questioning it, but I can’t find on Apple Music where it distinguishes whether it’s blue Ray or hd or neither.
[...]but unless you have an ear for dynamic range or own a very high-def stereo system to play music on, it might not matter to most listeners, especially if you stream or listen to music on less-than-professional audio equipment.
A View From The Top Of The World is a first rate album. Definitely NO NEW GROUND broken here, but IMO, it's the best Mangini era album. Speaking of MM, this is the first album where we really get to hear the power of his drumming! This is NOT a "throwback" album at all. It fits squarely in with the sound of everything since ADTOE, just definitely better produced and with crystal clear sound. The two songs already released are certainly the weakest on the record, especially "Invisible Monster". This is a solid 9/10 for me and my album of the year (just edging out SENJUTSO & MARCHING IN TIME).
Highlights:
JP & MM
Minor Complaints:
Lyrics & melodies for many of the songs
This feels like a bad sign for me. Going with the assumption that their playing will be terrific as always, I couldn't give two craps if the playing is better than normal (whatever that even means), the time sigs are more crazy, or any of that other technical nonsense. I want good songs with good, strong melodies.
[...]but unless you have an ear for dynamic range or own a very high-def stereo system to play music on, it might not matter to most listeners, especially if you stream or listen to music on less-than-professional audio equipment.
I think even the hardest of hearing using £0.99 earbuds would be able to hear the distortion caused by the brickwalling on Baroness's recent releases. The original releases of Vapor Trails and Death Magnetic are aural masterpieces compared to those.
I'm glad to hear that people are talking about the dynamic range of the upcoming release. If anyone is interested, Apple Music does have the BluRay version of Distance Over Time, as well as the HDTracks version of A Dramatic Turn of Events and Systematic Chaos. These all have higher DR values than the standard masterings.
However, the versions of the self-titled and Black Clouds & Silver Linings on Apple Music are the standard CD versions (despite dynamic HDTracks versions of those also existing). It will be interesting to see what they publish on Apple Music (and other streaming services).
Album is coming in a few minutes here in our part of the world. Can we discuss spoilers here or do we start another thread?