Coronavirus

[Stadler]

Don't disagree with any of that. On the other hand, I don't view that guy on twitter as guilty of that. He called out a behaviour he (rightfully) views as hazardous in real life, and then vented about it without naming names.

Except like the bully, he didn't bother to make any effort to understand that behavior before calling it out (and I object to your "rightfully"; we do not know that).   He has no idea if those people are vaccinated, if those people know each other, if those people are expressing a political statement, a social statement, or neither, and yet he's rendering judgment. They are BAD, simply because he said so.  By his reckoning, if he saw me last night, he would have rendered me "bad" without any understanding of my position, even though I followed every relevant guideline to the letter.  There's nothing "rightful" about that, and I shouldn't bear that burden, anymore than you should bear the burden of being knocked in the noggin' with an apple because you like math.   

[Ben_Jamin]

Don't disagree with any of that. On the other hand, I don't view that guy on twitter as guilty of that. He called out a behaviour he (rightfully) views as hazardous in real life, and then vented about it without naming names.

Except like the bully, he didn't bother to make any effort to understand that behavior before calling it out (and I object to your "rightfully"; we do not know that).   He has no idea if those people are vaccinated, if those people know each other, if those people are expressing a political statement, a social statement, or neither, and yet he's rendering judgment. They are BAD, simply because he said so.  By his reckoning, if he saw me last night, he would have rendered me "bad" without any understanding of my position, even though I followed every relevant guideline to the letter.  There's nothing "rightful" about that, and I shouldn't bear that burden, anymore than you should bear the burden of being knocked in the noggin' with an apple because you like math.

You getting an apple to noggin for liking Math cause Math is Racist. 

Unlike Newton getting an apple to the noggin because of Nature showing Newton and literally knocking on his head about Gravity. 


But yeah, when not in businesses that require masks. You have no way of knowing who isn't vaccinated and who is. Just as you don't know who also has a different sickness that could just as easily get you sick. We've been told, even before Covid, to stay home when sick.

When you stay home, the chances of that passing onto someone lowers. And how did people stay home, the business of the world shut down, but life did not stop, and never does stop. The places where people mingle and gather shut down, but that didn't stop people from gathering outside in groups.

I do hope the businesses, and people in general are more aware now, that if you don't feel good, stay home and get better. The workplace can handle not needing you to work. Unless that business relies on you that much, if so, then that business should realize and learn not to rely on one person for anything.

Peoples mentality is just as important as a person's physical health. And this bullying and mob mentality, has affect on people's mental health. Which some people couldn't handle which led to the rise in suicides in this pandemic....

[XJDenton]

Don't disagree with any of that. On the other hand, I don't view that guy on twitter as guilty of that. He called out a behaviour he (rightfully) views as hazardous in real life, and then vented about it without naming names.

Except like the bully, he didn't bother to make any effort to understand that behavior before calling it out (and I object to your "rightfully"; we do not know that).   He has no idea if those people are vaccinated, if those people know each other, if those people are expressing a political statement, a social statement, or neither, and yet he's rendering judgment.

Yeah. Because none of those things would excuse not wearing a mask at this moment in time.

[Harmony]

Don't disagree with any of that. On the other hand, I don't view that guy on twitter as guilty of that. He called out a behaviour he (rightfully) views as hazardous in real life, and then vented about it without naming names.

Except like the bully, he didn't bother to make any effort to understand that behavior before calling it out (and I object to your "rightfully"; we do not know that).   He has no idea if those people are vaccinated, if those people know each other, if those people are expressing a political statement, a social statement, or neither, and yet he's rendering judgment.

Yeah. Because none of those things would excuse not wearing a mask at this moment in time.

Really though?  Again, what if they were fully vaccinated?  I often pull off my mask as I'm leaving a store because CDC says outside mask wearing isn't necessary unless in a crowd.  I am fully vaccinated and do not worry about unvaccinated people around me anymore.  I feel the 0.0005% chance I get Covid now is as low of a risk as I can get and I'm living my life accordingly just like with other things I take small risks on day to day.  Like driving.  Like eating BBQ food.  Like taking Tylenol for my headache.

Look, as more and more people get vaccinated and restrictions ease and lift, people are going to start making choices for themselves about risks.  Those choices may or may not jibe with yours.  As long as they are not violating the policy of the store/business, then who are we to judge?

[cramx3]

When I was in NYC a few nights ago, I saw quite a bit of people walking around without masks.  As a vaccinated person, it didn't bother me one bit.  For one, outside, and two, I have protection.  No reason to worry at all IMO.  However, I kept mine on even though I felt a bit tempted to just take it off.

[Harmony]

When I was in NYC a few nights ago, I saw quite a bit of people walking around without masks.  As a vaccinated person, it didn't bother me one bit.  For one, outside, and two, I have protection.  No reason to worry at all IMO.  However, I kept mine on even though I felt a bit tempted to just take it off.

That's great to hear that people are feeling more comfortable maskless outside.  I will NEVER judge anyone if they choose to continue to wear a mask though.  I've heard from friends who have seasonal allergies that mask wearing has helped them.  Also, I don't know if someone opting to wear a mask has symptoms of a cold and is doing it to protect others.  Or if someone is immunocompromised and just feels safer.  I think a mixture of mask wearing and non mask wearing is going to be the new normal.

I hope the use of masks as a political symbol goes away quickly though.

[XJDenton]

Really though?  Again, what if they were fully vaccinated?  I often pull off my mask as I'm leaving a store because CDC says outside mask wearing isn't necessary unless in a crowd.  I am fully vaccinated and do not worry about unvaccinated people around me anymore.  I feel the 0.0005% chance I get Covid now is as low of a risk as I can get and I'm living my life accordingly just like with other things I take small risks on day to day.  Like driving.  Like eating BBQ food.  Like taking Tylenol for my headache.

Look, as more and more people get vaccinated and restrictions ease and lift, people are going to start making choices for themselves about risks.  Those choices may or may not jibe with yours.  As long as they are not violating the policy of the store/business, then who are we to judge?

1. The efficacy rates are not 100% so even people who have received full vaccine doses can be potential carriers and spread it to other people.
2. The primary purpose of a mask is to protect other people. Not you. Masks limit how many microdroplets YOU spread in a large area.

[Harmony]

Really though?  Again, what if they were fully vaccinated?  I often pull off my mask as I'm leaving a store because CDC says outside mask wearing isn't necessary unless in a crowd.  I am fully vaccinated and do not worry about unvaccinated people around me anymore.  I feel the 0.0005% chance I get Covid now is as low of a risk as I can get and I'm living my life accordingly just like with other things I take small risks on day to day.  Like driving.  Like eating BBQ food.  Like taking Tylenol for my headache.

Look, as more and more people get vaccinated and restrictions ease and lift, people are going to start making choices for themselves about risks.  Those choices may or may not jibe with yours.  As long as they are not violating the policy of the store/business, then who are we to judge?

1. The efficacy rates are not 100% so even people who have received full vaccine doses can be potential carriers and spread it to other people.
2. The primary purpose of a mask is to protect other people. Not you. Masks limit how many microdroplets YOU spread in a large area.

We will never have 100% efficacy rates of any vaccine.

I assume you have seen these studies on the extremely low likelihood that a fully vaccinated person transmits Covid?

[Ben_Jamin]

Don't disagree with any of that. On the other hand, I don't view that guy on twitter as guilty of that. He called out a behaviour he (rightfully) views as hazardous in real life, and then vented about it without naming names.

Except like the bully, he didn't bother to make any effort to understand that behavior before calling it out (and I object to your "rightfully"; we do not know that).   He has no idea if those people are vaccinated, if those people know each other, if those people are expressing a political statement, a social statement, or neither, and yet he's rendering judgment.

Yeah. Because none of those things would excuse not wearing a mask at this moment in time.

Really though?  Again, what if they were fully vaccinated?  I often pull off my mask as I'm leaving a store because CDC says outside mask wearing isn't necessary unless in a crowd.  I am fully vaccinated and do not worry about unvaccinated people around me anymore.  I feel the 0.0005% chance I get Covid now is as low of a risk as I can get and I'm living my life accordingly just like with other things I take small risks on day to day.  Like driving.  Like eating BBQ food.  Like taking Tylenol for my headache.

Look, as more and more people get vaccinated and restrictions ease and lift, people are going to start making choices for themselves about risks.  Those choices may or may not jibe with yours.  As long as they are not violating the policy of the store/business, then who are we to judge?

And also, some of these business don't care, and will not ask anyone to wear one if they decide not to. Nor will they demand another not to wear a mask.

My choice is to not enter that business if they demand me to either wear or not wear one. As crazy as it is, some are actually enacting policies where they enforce people not to wear one, which they can, but that is that business decision and choice to risk their business being shut down by the state emergency orders. Then, the question becomes, where does the emergency orders start to not be an emergency anymore, where these orders will have no effect at all? And then people are not required to mask, and things can be opened fully again...

Where is that threshold of risk at where it's "safe" and is higher than the many other risks involved with dying? Don't Vaccines lower that risk for an individual, and shouldn't that be all that matters, as long as grandma is vaccinated and her risk is low and yours as well, shouldn't that be all that one should be concerned about?

So if Grandma and your risk is low, why should you be concerned about a non-vaccinated person getting the illness?

[jingle.boy]

When I was in NYC a few nights ago, I saw quite a bit of people walking around without masks.  As a vaccinated person, it didn't bother me one bit.  For one, outside, and two, I have protection.  No reason to worry at all IMO.  However, I kept mine on even though I felt a bit tempted to just take it off.

  I think a mixture of mask wearing and non mask wearing is going to be the new normal.

Agreed.  It's already normal in many Eastern cultures/nations.  I don't mind the idea of it coming to the West.

[cramx3]

1. The efficacy rates are not 100% so even people who have received full vaccine doses can be potential carriers and spread it to other people.

While possible, it's not a very high percentage.  If you spread it to someone not vaccinated, that is on them at this point IMO.  At least here in the US where there's now more supply than demand.  Anyone can get a vaccine right now so I'm not terribly worried about spreading it.  It's that persons choice to take the risk at this point.  I probably should also state, this is in flux as it takes time to be fully vaxxed so really, in about 4 weeks from now, this truly is the case.

2. The primary purpose of a mask is to protect other people. Not you. Masks limit how many microdroplets YOU spread in a large area.

See above.  I shouldn't be limited to protect others who chose not to product themselves at some point.

Ninja'd by Harmony, but I think it's important to note that we need to move on once the vaccine has been readily available to everyone minus the young children who mostly aren't affected at all (ages 12-16 should be approved soon for vaccination).

[XJDenton]

We will never have 100% efficacy rates of any vaccine.

Correct. Which is why continued mask use in addition to vaccination is more effective than vaccination alone in reducing transmission rates and the total number of cases in the wild.

I assume you have seen these studies on the extremely low likelihood that a fully vaccinated person transmits Covid?

Yes. And while a 3/4 to 19/20 reduction is great, the remainder is not negligible. Those remaining people would be far less likely to be spreading it if they continue to wear masks.

While possible, it's not a very high percentage.  If you spread it to someone not vaccinated, that is on them at this point IMO.

Bold assumption.

[KevShmev]

I was talking with a co-worker about this just a bit ago, about wearing masks.  Like me, he is also vaccinated, and our boss has said that those of us who have been vaccinated don't have to be as vigilante about wearing masks around the office, but we both agreed that we both still will just as a courtesy. It's not like I have to wear it when working at my desk, and I can deal with it when walking to the printer, or to my car, or the men's room, or whatever.  On the minor inconvenience scale of 1-10, it''s like a 1.3. No big deal.

[Ben_Jamin]

When I was in NYC a few nights ago, I saw quite a bit of people walking around without masks.  As a vaccinated person, it didn't bother me one bit.  For one, outside, and two, I have protection.  No reason to worry at all IMO.  However, I kept mine on even though I felt a bit tempted to just take it off.

That's great to hear that people are feeling more comfortable maskless outside.  I will NEVER judge anyone if they choose to continue to wear a mask though.  I've heard from friends who have seasonal allergies that mask wearing has helped them.  Also, I don't know if someone opting to wear a mask has symptoms of a cold and is doing it to protect others.  Or if someone is immunocompromised and just feels safer.  I think a mixture of mask wearing and non mask wearing is going to be the new normal.

I hope the use of masks as a political symbol goes away quickly though.

Yeah, I can see this, when the orders are not enacted anymore, I am sure there will be people whom do see benefits from wearing a mask in public. I myself won't shame them, because in the end, that is their decision and not mine to make.

Hell, Its not my decision whether people want to wear the things they do into a Wal-Mart, as you see when looking up "People of Wal-Mart".

Which in the end, once the risk lowers, is what people will end up doing. Some will take time to ease back into living life, while some that enjoy it will stay and continue doing what we are already doing, and others will start to take extremely high risks on stuff that they weren't able to do because of it being shut down, stuff that is now at a higher percentage risk than the covid sickness.

[Harmony]

Earlier in the thread I mentioned Dr. Monica Gandhi as someone to follow on various social media platforms.  She is an infectious disease physician who literally wrote many papers in favor of mask wearing very early in the pandemic.  Once again, she changed MANY minds - including those of fellow physicians - in FAVOR of mask wearing based on the amount of data and research she did.

I stand by what I've stated in this thread about masking.  And I urge people to check into her continued research and data on this topic.  It really speaks for itself.

[cramx3]

While possible, it's not a very high percentage.  If you spread it to someone not vaccinated, that is on them at this point IMO.

Bold assumption.

THe amount of people with medical conditions preventing them from being vaccinated is not a high % vs the people choosing not to get vaxxed.  I would feel bad for spreading it to someone who legit can't get vaccinated.  So there is a caveat, but that's also a good reason why those who aren't vaccinated should be vaccinated to help those who seriously cannot.  But also, spreading it as a vaccinated person is not very likely so I will mostly stick to my comment.

[Ben_Jamin]

Earlier in the thread I mentioned Dr. Monica Gandhi as someone to follow on various social media platforms.  She is an infectious disease physician who literally wrote many papers in favor of mask wearing very early in the pandemic.  Once again, she changed MANY minds - including those of fellow physicians - in FAVOR of mask wearing based on the amount of data and research she did.

I stand by what I've stated in this thread about masking.  And I urge people to check into her continued research and data on this topic.  It really speaks for itself.

Yup, I always masked up and still do when I go places, only because it is required of me, and once that risk is low and people start to feel more safer themselves, then the requirements should go and it should be left up that person whether to take that risk of getting the sickness.

This then brings me to ask, What is it that is affecting the air we breathe enough for us humans to have to wear a mask in order to be able to live and be healthy? And shouldn't this be the major issue and problem to consider now that this disease is passing. So we could prevent more sickness and worse diseases from killing us, what could we humans do ourselves to not die from these sicknesses and diseases?

[jingle.boy]

At a minimum, I'll likely continue wearing a mask in public until daily case counts rates are CONSISTENTLY in the low double digits (or single digits) in my region for an extended period of time.  And/or when the WHO un-declares it a global pandemic.  And/or a couple months after 70% of Canadians are fully vaccinated.  My guess is sometime next spring is the earliest I'll be comfortable NOT wearing a mask indoors in public settings - so, another year.

I'm fine with that.

[hunnus2000]

Really though?  Again, what if they were fully vaccinated?  I often pull off my mask as I'm leaving a store because CDC says outside mask wearing isn't necessary unless in a crowd.  I am fully vaccinated and do not worry about unvaccinated people around me anymore.  I feel the 0.0005% chance I get Covid now is as low of a risk as I can get and I'm living my life accordingly just like with other things I take small risks on day to day.  Like driving.  Like eating BBQ food.  Like taking Tylenol for my headache.

Look, as more and more people get vaccinated and restrictions ease and lift, people are going to start making choices for themselves about risks.  Those choices may or may not jibe with yours.  As long as they are not violating the policy of the store/business, then who are we to judge?

1. The efficacy rates are not 100% so even people who have received full vaccine doses can be potential carriers and spread it to other people.
2. The primary purpose of a mask is to protect other people. Not you. Masks limit how many microdroplets YOU spread in a large area.

The CDC revised their guidelines many months ago to say that the masks protect you from the virus as well as you protecting others. I never really bought into the argument that you are wearing a mask to protect others because if you watch an HGTV show and they wear masks to protect themselves from demolition and toxic fumes from paint remover etc....They certainly are not wearing a mask to protect the drywall.

As far as wearing masks, I will definitely wear one during flu season when going to the doctor or knowing that I will be in some sort of waiting room.

[Harmony]

Jingle you bring up a very good point that one should be paying attention to the amount of spread in one's local area as another parameter to consider when making risk/benefit choices for yourself and others.  For if cases are low, hospitalizations are low, and deaths are low then the relaxation of restrictions makes more sense than in areas where those things are higher and community spread would also assumed to be higher.  Looking to Israel and the UK is very hopeful because of their excellent vaccinated numbers.  Looking to India and Brazil, not so much.

hunnus the point you make about masks protecting the wearer is also something I learned from Dr. Gandhi.  There is a term used in medicine called viral load.  Dr. Gandhi hypothesized that wearing the mask can reduce the viral load the wearer inhales and thus could feasibly reduce the severity of the disease.  Less inoculum = less viral load = less likely one could become ill or less severity of illness if one did.  I've also seen discussion that the warmth and humidity while wearing the face covering could serve to diminish the inoculum as well, leading to less viral load.  But as far as I know, these hypothesis are just that and not established fact.  I think what makes drawing conclusions about masks difficult is the variation of masks people are wearing and the variation of the environmental conditions around them.  Florida is going to have more heat and humidity in general than Minnesota, for example.  Also I'm not sure I've seen hard research on the level of viral load one needs to contract/spread disease likely because there is a degree of individuality to that.  Genetics?  Underlying comorbidity?  Symptoms, e.g., coughing/sneezing would likely suggest higher rates of spread logically but how would that compare to fever without cough?  Or headache without congestion?  There are just so many variables that can factor into how these things are studied.  They'll probably have it good and figured out about the time the pandemic is over. 

[ariich]

Really though?  Again, what if they were fully vaccinated?  I often pull off my mask as I'm leaving a store because CDC says outside mask wearing isn't necessary unless in a crowd.  I am fully vaccinated and do not worry about unvaccinated people around me anymore.  I feel the 0.0005% chance I get Covid now is as low of a risk as I can get and I'm living my life accordingly just like with other things I take small risks on day to day.  Like driving.  Like eating BBQ food.  Like taking Tylenol for my headache.

Look, as more and more people get vaccinated and restrictions ease and lift, people are going to start making choices for themselves about risks.  Those choices may or may not jibe with yours.  As long as they are not violating the policy of the store/business, then who are we to judge?

1. The efficacy rates are not 100% so even people who have received full vaccine doses can be potential carriers and spread it to other people.
2. The primary purpose of a mask is to protect other people. Not you. Masks limit how many microdroplets YOU spread in a large area.

The CDC revised their guidelines many months ago to say that the masks protect you from the virus as well as you protecting others. I never really bought into the argument that you are wearing a mask to protect others because if you watch an HGTV show and they wear masks to protect themselves from demolition and toxic fumes from paint remover etc....They certainly are not wearing a mask to protect the drywall.

That's a different kind of mask for a different kind of purpose. In that case, it's a filter mask specifically to prevent smoke, fumes and other particulates from getting through and into your lungs.

You are actually correct that masks provide some virus protection for the wearer. Medical-grade masks obviously provide a lot of protection but most of us don't have those for everyday use. But even normal coverings provide some protection and reduce the chance of infection. But viruses are much smaller than smoke and fumes, and basic face coverings only provide a bit of protection - some of the virus can still get through if it lands on it.

Whereas basic coverings make a significant difference to transmitting the virus outwards, because it stops it from escaping away from you when breathing, coughing, etc.

So yes, they do provide some protection, but XJ is right that the primary purpose/benefit is to stop transmission to other people.

[TAC]

At a minimum, I'll likely continue wearing a mask in public until daily case counts rates are CONSISTENTLY in the low double digits (or single digits) in my region for an extended period of time.  And/or when the WHO un-declares it a global pandemic.  And/or a couple months after 70% of Canadians are fully vaccinated.  My guess is sometime next spring is the earliest I'll be comfortable NOT wearing a mask indoors in public settings - so, another year.

I'm fine with that.

Chad, you’re playing it safe so you’ll never be wrong, but WOW!

[XeRocks81]

At a minimum, I'll likely continue wearing a mask in public until daily case counts rates are CONSISTENTLY in the low double digits (or single digits) in my region for an extended period of time.  And/or when the WHO un-declares it a global pandemic.  And/or a couple months after 70% of Canadians are fully vaccinated.  My guess is sometime next spring is the earliest I'll be comfortable NOT wearing a mask indoors in public settings - so, another year.

I'm fine with that.

Chad, you’re playing it safe so you’ll never be wrong, but WOW!

it's most likely because I also live in canada, and Quebec is in only slightly better shape than Ontario(and I'm not even 100% sure about that), that I don't find anything remotely surprising or unusual about Jingle's thoughts on this.

[ProfessorPeart]

Then you have the people I saw yesterday. Protesting on a street corner in the Downtown area of the college town just north of me.

Signs that read:

'End the mask mandate'
'My face. My decision'
'Show me your smile'
'Unmask our children'

If I was at all bold, I would have yelled their way that they needed one more sign:

'Let me give you Covid!'

Whatever. They were all fairly old. I would say 60 and up. Strange sight to see geezers protesting in a college town.

[Harmony]

We are starting to hear about more incentives for people to get vaccinated.  So I thought I'd put this in as one of them.  If herd immunity is a worthwhile goal - and I think it is - then we need to be open to looking at effectiveness data for all potential incentives.

[DragonAttack]

Then you have the people I saw yesterday. Protesting on a street corner in the Downtown area of the college town just north of me.

Signs that read:

'End the mask mandate'
'My face. My decision'
'Show me your smile'
'Unmask our children'

If I was at all bold, I would have yelled their way that they needed one more sign:

'Let me give you Covid!'

Whatever. They were all fairly old. I would say 60 and up. Strange sight to see geezers protesting in a college town.

They would also be the first ones picketing City Hall in opposition to a topless beach.

EDIT:  The majority of new cases in Maryland is now the 18-49 age range, as well as in fourteen other states.   Six deaths in the last ten days for those in their 20s.  Age restrictions for immunizations have been removed, and more young people are getting their shots.  Of course, many still have the immortality syndrome.  With all the variants that now exist, we're still playing it 'safe', though dining out doesn't have the 'paranoia' factor as before.  We'll get the booster shots when the time comes.  We also expect to be discussing the same bad numbers of deaths and hospitalizations a year or two from now.  The hot spots will be the only thing that changes.
 

[jingle.boy]

At a minimum, I'll likely continue wearing a mask in public until daily case counts rates are CONSISTENTLY in the low double digits (or single digits) in my region for an extended period of time.  And/or when the WHO un-declares it a global pandemic.  And/or a couple months after 70% of Canadians are fully vaccinated.  My guess is sometime next spring is the earliest I'll be comfortable NOT wearing a mask indoors in public settings - so, another year.

I'm fine with that.

Chad, you’re playing it safe so you’ll never be wrong, but WOW!

À Chacun Son Goût. 

XE gets it.  Look, we (Canada) had a very bad third wave - especially here in Ontario.  Our case counts now seem to be coming down a few weeks into our THIRD stay-at-home order (the execution of which is very loose, tbh).  But a couple weeks ago, we (Ontario) were higher than California.  On a per capita basis, I don't think Schecter was being hyperbolic when he said Alberta is second only to India in the cases.  In Ontario, ICU cases went from the high 200s in Feb to almost 900 at the end of April.  In Ontario (population ~13M) there are less than 400k people fully vaccinated (most are healthcare workers, or LTC residents).  It won't be until the fall (at the earliest) that the province/country might reach the fabled herd immunity - and then we're into the winter months where everyone is back indoors again.  So yeah... I'll likely not have any comfort going back to 'normal' for another year.

Headline from Florida this morning - "Florida reports more than 10,000 COVID-19 variant cases, surge after spring break".

A total of 753 variant cases from three strains -- the B.1.1.7, the P.1, and the B. 1.3.5.1. -- were reported on March 14, according to variant infection data shared with ABC News. The Florida Department of Health does not disclose variant cases on its public dashboard.

That number swelled to 5,177 cases from five types of variants on April 15. Just two weeks later, the number of variant infections exploded to 9,248 on April 27, according to local ABC affiliate , WFTV.

This is how shit started and hit the fan up here.  90% of cases in Ontario are the B117 variant (UK).  There is a razor thin line between being safe and thinking the worst is over, and having another wave come crashing down.

I hope that the US vaccine rollout will dull the effects and spread of variants, but in the meantime, the situation is different for us up here.

[XJDenton]

Sweden, on the other hand has had pretty consistent numbers since December. Alongside pretty shit mask compliance and comparatively toothless lockdowns.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+covid&oq=sweden+covid&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59l2j69i65j69i60l3.3176j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[hefdaddy42]

The way I understand it with my employer is that they will not mandate proof of vaccination once we all start going back to the office, so we will be wearing masks for the foreseeable future.

[Adami]

Yea. I work for a university. They’re not allowed to ask if we’ve been vaccinated or demand we are. But all students need to be.

[cramx3]

Sundays and even Mondays are very poor reporting days for the numbers, but what I just read is eye opening for how low the numbers are this morning...

22,200 positives reported yesterday compared to 36,966 week over week. 7-day rolling average is at 40,686

Fatality was 241 compared to 648 yesterday and 328 week over week, 7-day rolling fatality at 662.

Hospitalizations reported 7 day rolling average is 31,992 compared to one week ago 36,108 down 11.2%.

Hospital admissions reported 7 day rolling average is 4,324 compared to one week ago 4,913 down 12.0%.

Without doing research, those could be our lowest daily reported numbers since this started or at least since our lowest point last fall. 

The vaccines work.

[bosk1]

More encouraging news that is still purely anecdotal, but encouraging nonetheless:  At mass vaccine sites in my area, they are still continuing to crank through a LOT of people every day.  It is very easy to get an appointment.  But appointments are largely staying filled to the point where they are still having to turn away walk-ins, and if they have extra unused spots at the end of the day, they seem to be in the single digits (!). 

[Ben_Jamin]

More encouraging news that is still purely anecdotal, but encouraging nonetheless:  At mass vaccine sites in my area, they are still continuing to crank through a LOT of people every day.  It is very easy to get an appointment.  But appointments are largely staying filled to the point where they are still having to turn away walk-ins, and if they have extra unused spots at the end of the day, they seem to be in the single digits (!).

Yup. It won't die down until, I'd say, end of the month. When most of the people who wanted to get Vaccinated, have all gotten there 2nd shots.

And that's where the numbers will stop climbing and begin to settle. As mostly all those whom wanted the vaccine, will have gotten it already.

Good to see it's working for those people whom really should get the vaccine. But that is only advice and not a demand for someone to get it. Hence why you need to give authorization, that you agree to take this vaccine that is approved for emergency use and has not been approved by the FDA.

Maybe, just maybe, people are waiting for the vaccines to be approved by the FDA before actually taking it. And not because Trump said not to...Maybe...

This is the only reason why I can see people are calling this an "experimental vaccine", because of the fact they're not FDA approved and were used because of the Emergency Use Authorization.

When there's no emergency, these vaccines can't be used, as there is no emergency anymore. Because they haven't been FDA approved.

Which is why I am wondering what the end goal percentage is? Because there is no way to hit 100% vaccinated. Are these Goal Percentages not including those that medically can't take these vaccines. I know one women whom can't take the flu shot because there is Egg ingredients in those and she is allergic to eggs. Would she be included in flu vaccine percentage rates for herd immunity?

[cramx3]

They will be FDA approved soon enough as the 6 month waiting period is coming to an end, the EUA isn't going to go away just because cases are going down.  This is the 100% reason cases are going down.

Also, it may just be annecdotal for bosk.  The numbers say vaccines given are going down.  What we are seeing though is people getting the second shot so the weekend numbers were pretty high again as people returned.  I think the shot numbers are going to go down significantly soon.  I know the FDA said Pfizer is safe for pregnant women and children ages 12-15 now, but I'm not sure there's going to be a surge of those people immediately to offset the adults who aren't getting the vaccine.

Also lots of states are telling the fed to ship less because demand is down.  The timing all kind of aligns with what I've been saying, we are approaching the end of demand and we can only cross our fingers that it's good enough to stop the spread.  It seems to be working right now, but I worry come the fall when everything will seemingly be back to normal and we may see the "seasonal" spread become a thing with the amount of people refusing a vaccine. 

[Stadler]

Really though?  Again, what if they were fully vaccinated?  I often pull off my mask as I'm leaving a store because CDC says outside mask wearing isn't necessary unless in a crowd.  I am fully vaccinated and do not worry about unvaccinated people around me anymore.  I feel the 0.0005% chance I get Covid now is as low of a risk as I can get and I'm living my life accordingly just like with other things I take small risks on day to day.  Like driving.  Like eating BBQ food.  Like taking Tylenol for my headache.

Look, as more and more people get vaccinated and restrictions ease and lift, people are going to start making choices for themselves about risks.  Those choices may or may not jibe with yours.  As long as they are not violating the policy of the store/business, then who are we to judge?

1. The efficacy rates are not 100% so even people who have received full vaccine doses can be potential carriers and spread it to other people.
2. The primary purpose of a mask is to protect other people. Not you. Masks limit how many microdroplets YOU spread in a large area.

I am in harmony with Harmony on this point.    You're speaking in absolutes about something that is not.