Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[rumborak]

The whole Kirk-Decker dynamic didn't work to well. It's like "I know what you're trying to do here plot-wise, but it's just not working". Shatners wooden acting didn't help either.

[King Postwhore]

The execution of the whole storyline was poor at best.  I was only 11 but I remember my Dad and 2 of his friends coming out of the movie saying, "WTF did we just see?"  That movie did not connect with with it's core audience.

[El Barto]

The whole Kirk-Decker dynamic didn't work to well. It's like "I know what you're trying to do here plot-wise, but it's just not working". Shatners wooden acting didn't help either.

Yeah, and in retrospect I think SC's acting had more to do with it. Shatner is a known quantity. He is what he is. For the dynamic they were looking for they needed Decker to be a little more pissed off. And for that matter most of Decker's other parts were pretty bland, as well. I never bought into him suddenly deciding that merging with some alien computer was what he'd always wanted more than anything else. Really, where'd that come from?

The execution of the whole storyline was poor at best.  I was only 11 but I remember my Dad and 2 of his friends coming out of the movie saying, "WTF did we just see?"  That movie did not connect with with it's core audience.

We felt the same way, but remember that what we saw way back then was the original studio release. It was re-released with some extra bits that explained a lot of things and greatly improved the story. Considering how much of a mess the original thing was (thank you Mr. Roddenberry) it's amazing it ever happened at all.

[jammindude]

I have a special fondness for TMP just because I feel that it was the last of the well executed NON-action sci-fi films.   (which I don't think even exist any more)

If you're a fan of sci-fi more along the lines of something like The Andromeda Strain (the original film...which I think is absolutely brilliant) then I don't see how you can't enjoy TMP.     I never thought about it at the time, because I was only 7 yrs old, but as I get older I really see more clearly what a complete game changer Star Wars was....and not always for the better.    I like that sci-fi became more action oriented...but I hate that it was to the exclusion of the old school way of doing sci-fi.   I would be so much happier if the two different genres could co-exist.

[El Barto]

Did they remake Andromeda Strain? I only know of the original Robert Wise version (who incidentally also directed TMP).

[jammindude]

Did they remake Andromeda Strain? I only know of the original Robert Wise version (who incidentally also directed TMP).

They made a TV mini-series...I didn't watch it.  Heard it was a lot more violent (which to me was just missing the point of the story...as per my post)

[rumborak]

The whole Kirk-Decker dynamic didn't work to well. It's like "I know what you're trying to do here plot-wise, but it's just not working". Shatners wooden acting didn't help either.

Yeah, and in retrospect I think SC's acting had more to do with it. Shatner is a known quantity. He is what he is. For the dynamic they were looking for they needed Decker to be a little more pissed off. And for that matter most of Decker's other parts were pretty bland, as well. I never bought into him suddenly deciding that merging with some alien computer was what he'd always wanted more than anything else. Really, where'd that come from?

Yeah, that was totally random. It especially made no sense since Decker is the captain of the Enterprise at the beginning. Had he been some middle-ranking guy who shows some inner turmoil about his true calling throughout the movie, people would have bought it. But this "yeah, I busted my ass over years to become a starship captain. But I really want to commit techno-suicide!"
The supposed love story with Ilea was somewhat better, but given the length of the movie they could have spent a lot of it on character development than on trying to be a 2001 Space Odyssey.

[Orbert]

I read somewhere that the TNG characters Riker and Troi were based on Decker and Ilia.  I can kinda see that.

Upon catching this movie on TV recently, I was surprised to realize that the TNG theme music is all over it, especially at the end.  I didn't even realize.  I mean, this movie came out eight years before TNG, and I never made the connection.  When TNG hit the air, I know I didn't think "Wow, that's the same music!"

[rumborak]

It was in reverse for me too. I had never seen TMP and when I finally saw it the TMP theme for me was the TNG theme really. Definitely weird to suddenly hear it in front of that old movie.

Regarding the Riker-Troi/Decker-Ilea thing, I don't know whether this is specifically a Roddenberry thing, but the more I have read about the movies and series, the more I got the impression that Gene did not ever want to waste a single character idea he had. Somehow in some fashion they resurfaced again, in some altered form. I believe Data came from some failed TV show of his, no?

[Kotowboy]

Also TNG plots came from aborted Star trek Phase II scripts.

[rumborak]

And even worse, some were just refilmed TOS episodes.

[BlobVanDam]

I read somewhere that the TNG characters Riker and Troi were based on Decker and Ilia.  I can kinda see that.

Upon catching this movie on TV recently, I was surprised to realize that the TNG theme music is all over it, especially at the end.  I didn't even realize.  I mean, this movie came out eight years before TNG, and I never made the connection.  When TNG hit the air, I know I didn't think "Wow, that's the same music!"

I saw the movies first not long before watching TNG, so it was obvious to me at the time (as it was used in all of the films scored by Goldsmith). I actually hate the TNG cut of the theme that they used on TNG.

[rumborak]

Err, all they're missing in the TNG cut is the beginning beats, which frankly are a bit too prog for a regular TV series. The rest is as is.

[Orbert]

I heard a longer version of the TNG music on our local classical radio station once.  It's actually a very nice piece of music.  In the 30-second version on TV, it has to move quickly through the different themes of course, but in its "proper" form, it's more laid back.  Those majestic themes have a chance to breath and not feel so rushed.  Yeah, a lot of it was the same eight bars or four bars repeated before moving on to the next section, but there were entire sections which were cut.  In it's longer form, it sounded like an overture.

[BlobVanDam]

The structure is chomped up and odd, cutting off the second half of one of my favourite bits, then the odd key shift to the tail section that doesn't usually connect up to the first half directly. They could have edited it better for the length. And they mostly used the shorter ending, occasionally using the slightly longer ending during the credits. And the performance isn't as good either. It's TV budget.

The whole thing just isn't as good as the movie version in any way. If I want to listen to it, I'll listen to a movie version. They're all good, except Nemesis.

[rumborak]

I still can not fathom whoever thought it would be a good idea to put a country pop song in front of ENT. It put the whole thing on the wrong foot right from the get-go.

[BlobVanDam]

I think they wanted something closer to modern times, to make it more relateable, rather than the distant future feel of the other Trek series, to fit with the intro montage of exploration through the ages from the past to the future.
I'm not saying it was completely successful, although I got used to it, and even didn't mind it. It wasn't very Trekky though, and not even an original song, so I get why people hate it. They were originally going to use the music that ended up over the end credits, which would have been better.

[El Barto]

The song was dreadful. Shame, too, as the opening montage was really slick. I still think it's a big part of the reason the show bombed so badly.

[BlobVanDam]

The show bombing had a lot more to do with the show just plain sucking for the most part. It was a watered down recycling of much better Trek, so it had very little to offer that people hadn't seen before. Something as superficial as a theme song wouldn't have helped it.

[King Postwhore]

While I agree about the music for ENT.  Most of the third and forth season i really liked but of course UPN started to move the TV show all over the place time and day wise knowing it was the end.

[BlobVanDam]

The 3rd and 4th seasons were definitely a huge departure from the first two seasons. I think the 3rd season is overall great, although I hate the 4th season overall unlike most Enterprise fans. Too much forced fanwank.
The mirror universe episodes were good though.

[Kotowboy]

My all time favourite Star Trek Score is for Wrath Of Khan.


I also really like the "new" star trek theme from the JJ Abrams movies : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMu5jP2-c5U

[BlobVanDam]

I absolutely love Giacchino's score for STXI, including his new theme (great choice to link btw). I don't have the one for ID yet, as when I checked, they hadn't released the complete edition yet.

[Kotowboy]

I absolutely love Giacchino's score for STXI, including his new theme (great choice to link btw). I don't have the one for ID yet, as when I checked, they hadn't released the complete edition yet.

Into Darkness Score is on Spotify but I don't know if that's what you are after.

Wrath Of Khan score gives me goosebumps everytime. Perfect score for a perfect film.

[BlobVanDam]

I absolutely love Giacchino's score for STXI, including his new theme (great choice to link btw). I don't have the one for ID yet, as when I checked, they hadn't released the complete edition yet.

Into Darkness Score is on Spotify but I don't know if that's what you are after.

Wrath Of Khan score gives me goosebumps everytime. Perfect score for a perfect film.

I can't find anything on Spotify for Into Darkness. Link?
I haven't listened to the TWOK soundtrack on its own, but I always enjoy it when watching the movie. Still, I think I prefer some of the Goldsmith stuff, especially First Contact.

[Kotowboy]

https://open.spotify.com/album/3tqUA0lolzsjNcmuXL5R0L  ??

[BlobVanDam]

Thanks. It's completely greyed out for me and won't let me play it, so maybe the availability is limited by country? It would explain why I couldn't find it in my search though.
And either way, it's the shorter soundtrack. I like to have the full soundtrack, like the Deluxe Edition of the STXI one.

[Kotowboy]

  Thou Shalt Not Enjoy Music For Which Thou Hast tried To Enjoy Legally  !!!!

[El Barto]

The 3rd and 4th seasons were definitely a huge departure from the first two seasons. I think the 3rd season is overall great, although I hate the 4th season overall unlike most Enterprise fans. Too much forced fanwank.
The mirror universe episodes were good though.

I agree with you about the 4th season, which I believe we've discussed before. I actually didn't have much of a problem with 1 and 2, though. Some of the episodes sucked, just like any ST series, but some were pretty good. And while the Xindi storyline was entertaining, the trade off was the lack of prequel stuff that made the first 2 seasons interesting.

[rumborak]

I was anyways bummed that the temporal war thing didn't turn out better. What a great concept.

[El Barto]

I was bummed that it didn't turn out even halfway decent. Poorly executed all the way around, and the weaker episodes of the first three seasons, frankly.

[King Postwhore]

I may be wrong but I think they found out during the 4th season that it would be their last and the writers had to scramble to finish off the storyline.  That always tends to make every plot line seems rushed.

[BlobVanDam]

The 3rd and 4th seasons were definitely a huge departure from the first two seasons. I think the 3rd season is overall great, although I hate the 4th season overall unlike most Enterprise fans. Too much forced fanwank.
The mirror universe episodes were good though.

I agree with you about the 4th season, which I believe we've discussed before. I actually didn't have much of a problem with 1 and 2, though. Some of the episodes sucked, just like any ST series, but some were pretty good. And while the Xindi storyline was entertaining, the trade off was the lack of prequel stuff that made the first 2 seasons interesting.

I didn't have a problem with the first 2 seasons either, but nor did they really offer much compared to other Trek. The characters weren't very interesting or charismatic even for Trek standards, and the stories were uninspired. It wasn't until S3/4 that it felt like they were trying to be somewhat adventurous. But I find all of it at least watchable.

IIRC, the whole temporal war thing was shoehorned in there by the execs, so it was done kind of half-assed. I thought some of the episodes dealing with the temporal war were really good, and the others weren't too bad from what I remember. The problem was that they never really committed to it. They either needed to make it a more prominent story arc, or just ditch it altogether.

[jingle.boy]

Just (re) starting to make my way through Enterprise, cuz I never watched it in the first place.  Watched the Andorian Incident and Breaking the Ice. 

Andorian ... wasn't too hard to predict what they were gonna find in the cattacombs.  And like the group of monks along with Archer/Tripp couldn't over-power those four numbskulls.

Breaking the Ince... WTF was with the "video" back home scene?  Like, in 200 years, people don't know how a self contained vessel takes care of shit?  Did other naval vessels (subs, air craft carriers...) go extinct or something.  The number of  at that scene.

Then I flipped over to (rewatch) Boston Legal (starting right at the beginning... S1E01).  Enterprise better pick up, or it's gonna lose out to Denny and Alan real quick.

[BlobVanDam]

Just (re) starting to make my way through Enterprise, cuz I never watched it in the first place.  Watched the Andorian Incident and Breaking the Ice. 

Andorian ... wasn't too hard to predict what they were gonna find in the cattacombs.  And like the group of monks along with Archer/Tripp couldn't over-power those four numbskulls.

Breaking the Ince... WTF was with the "video" back home scene?  Like, in 200 years, people don't know how a self contained vessel takes care of shit?  Did other naval vessels (subs, air craft carriers...) go extinct or something.  The number of  at that scene.

Then I flipped over to (rewatch) Boston Legal (starting right at the beginning... S1E01).  Enterprise better pick up, or it's gonna lose out to Denny and Alan real quick.

Funny you mention Boston Legal, as I just got S1 cheap on the weekend to start watching through. I never saw an episode, only catching bits here and there, but with old man Shatner playing the part of Shatner, it's a sure thing.

To quote 30 Rock, "I watched Boston Legal 9 times before I realized it wasn't a new Star Trek."