Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[Kotowboy]

The new Blu Ray TNG remasters look stunning.

If I ever get a Blu Ray player - TNG will be the first thing i'd get.

[rumborak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYfBFXNg4iQ#t=113

Check out the scene, but switch off the sound. She is really just speaking out the English text, and then they dubbed it with Vulcan.

[Orbert]

That's a great scene, though.  First time we watched it with our son, he was maybe five, and when she dropped it on the ground, I thought it was awesome.  My son did, too, but for different reasons.  "Ha ha, she left it, so now he gets it anyway."  I had to figure out a way to explain to him that yes, he could wear it (and what is it, anyway, some kind of necklace?) but it would have no meaning because he hadn't earned it.

[ddtonfire]

I'm watching Face of the Enemy, where Troi wakes up as a Romulan Major. I've got to say I'm very impressed with the sound dampening the Romulan quarters have, as she is currently yelling at the top of her lungs to her accomplice that she is a Romulan imposter. So far nobody in the hallway or next room over has heard.

[Kotowboy]

Some of my fave TNG eps are the ones with messed up reality or they "go dark" like Where Silence Has Lease or Frame Of Mind.

[ddtonfire]

Frame of Mind is definitely one of my favorites. Despite watching it numerous times, I still can't fully discern what is reality and what is Riker's imagination.

[El Barto]

I'm watching Face of the Enemy, where Troi wakes up as a Romulan Major. I've got to say I'm very impressed with the sound dampening the Romulan quarters have, as she is currently yelling at the top of her lungs to her accomplice that she is a Romulan imposter. So far nobody in the hallway or next room over has heard.

In space, no one can hear you whine.

[Kotowboy]

Frame of Mind is definitely one of my favorites. Despite watching it numerous times, I still can't fully discern what is reality and what is Riker's imagination.

I assumed the entire thing was one big nightmare because he wakes up right at the end on a table ? I thought he'd been under the entire time.

[ddtonfire]

I'm watching Face of the Enemy, where Troi wakes up as a Romulan Major. I've got to say I'm very impressed with the sound dampening the Romulan quarters have, as she is currently yelling at the top of her lungs to her accomplice that she is a Romulan imposter. So far nobody in the hallway or next room over has heard.

In space, no one can hear you whine.

 

Very apt summation of TNG

Frame of Mind is definitely one of my favorites. Despite watching it numerous times, I still can't fully discern what is reality and what is Riker's imagination.

I assumed the entire thing was one big nightmare because he wakes up right at the end on a table ? I thought he'd been under the entire time.

I always thought they were mixed and alternated between reality and imagination. It's coming up soon in my watch-through so I'll pay really close attention to it.


EDIT: Currently watching Tapestry. Why are a bunch of Starfleet officers just standing around watching from the background as Picard gets stabbed through the heart? What a bunch of useless pussies who don't deserve to wear that uniform.

I love to bitch about TNG.

[BlobVanDam]

I love to bitch about TNG.

I shall call you El Barto 2.0

[El Barto]

EDIT: Currently watching Tapestry. Why are a bunch of Starfleet officers just standing around watching from the background as Picard gets stabbed through the heart? What a bunch of useless pussies who don't deserve to wear that uniform.

It's because they're all enlightened and know that violence is never the solution. Better to go back to your ship and cry to your counselor about how awful a place the universe can be. 

[Kotowboy]

TNG is the best Star Trek series hands down.

[BlobVanDam]

TNG is the best Star Trek series hands down.

I'd have to give that honour to DS9 overall. The general opinion among fans these days is between those two though (maybe TOS, although that seems to mostly be the much older fans).
The main thing with TNG for me is that it simply took a while to find its feet. Those first two seasons weren't that great. The first two seasons of DS9 were its weakest too, but I thought it still got off to a much stronger start. Actually, the first two seasons of every Trek series were distinctly the weakest, aside from TOS, which was pretty consistent throughout.

[King Postwhore]

I cast a vote for DS9 myself.

[Kotowboy]

I like DS9 but imo there were way more annoying characters on it than TNG.

Wes > Jake

Picard > Sisko

The best thing about DS9 was the relationship between Odo and Quark.

[BlobVanDam]

I like DS9 but imo there were way more annoying characters on it than TNG.

Wes > Jake

Picard > Sisko

The best thing about DS9 was the relationship between Odo and Quark.

Wesley better than Jake? What the what! Wesley was the worst, and Jake was downright tolerable for a kid actor too. He even had a few good episodes when teamed up with Nog.
I do prefer Picard, but Sisko was pretty damn awesome too. If I was doing a direct cast comparison, I think DS9 would overall win, although both were good casts.

[Kotowboy]

I couldn't stand either Jake or Nog.

Q was back to being annoying in DS9 too.

[BlobVanDam]

Q was always annoying imo, he was just ever so slightly less annoying on TNG. I always liked John De Lancie though, just not the writing.

If you can't stand Jake, I don't know how you can stand Wesley Wheaton.

[Kotowboy]

But in TNG - Q had an arc.

In farpoint he was just a God Bully - then he got interested in Picard - he started becoming less of a bully and more about helping the crew get enlightened.

In All Good Things he helps Picard save the universe.

In DS9 he's just back to being annoying Q again.


But yeah - blame the writers not De Lancie as he played that part perfectly.

[BlobVanDam]

But didn't Q create the situation in the first place in All Good Things? Been a while since I've seen it, but I loved that episode regardless, so it doesn't really matter. But I didn't really consider it an arc. Just a bit of progression in their relationship.
I mostly never liked how they dealt with the concept of omnipotence.

[Kotowboy]

A farm in Texas where all the Q hang out and play board games


I like that episode - I think it's called " The Dauphin " ? I may be wrong. Where they find an inhabitable planet with one casino at the centre of a storm and they have to re-enact

the book in order to leave.


EDIT :just looked it up and it's The Royale.

[jingle.boy]

But didn't Q create the situation in the first place in All Good Things? Been a while since I've seen it, but I loved that episode regardless, so it doesn't really matter. But I didn't really consider it an arc. Just a bit of progression in their relationship.
I mostly never liked how they dealt with the concept of omnipotence.

Yeah, Q essentially created the crisis in All Good Things.  If he hadn't told all three Picards of the 'anomoly' in the Devron system, then all three Enterprises would've never done the inverse tachyon pulses, thus creating the anomoly that travels back in time.  That always bugged me.

[Kotowboy]

Either way - I thought Q did it to give Picard a greater understanding of the universe and to open his mind slightly to what is to come.

I never thought he did it just to be a dick.

[Kotowboy]

Wikipedia article on " The Royale " :

The episode was written by Tracy Tormé under the pseudonym of Keith Mills. Tormé had his name removed from the credits after he became unsatisfied with rewrites. His original idea was a surreal nightmare about an astronaut stuck forever in his most pleasant memory.[1]

That would have been interesting. I always wished Trek could go a bit dark from time to time.

[Orbert]

They did, from time to time.  The aforementioned "Frame of Mind" is a good example.  Also, the silly the one where Deanna is having nightmares ("one moon circles") and there's another nightmare one where it turns out they're all being experimented on in their sleep by aliens or something.

But yeah, it seemed like they just wanted to keep things light for the most part.

[El Barto]

Wesley better than Jake? What the what! Wesley was the worst, and Jake was downright tolerable for a kid actor too. He even had a few good episodes when teamed up with Nog.
I do prefer Picard, but Sisko was pretty damn awesome too. If I was doing a direct cast comparison, I think DS9 would overall win, although both were good casts.

If we're talking about the quality of acting, then TNG wins hands down. Sisko was among the worst of the actors, and he was up against a very good one. If we're talking about the quality of characters, we're talking about the best group of the series vs the worst group of the series. The circumstances of DS9 actually allowed their crew to act like humans, unlike the other series (save for ENT).  TNG was the pinnacle of the lifeless avatar characterizations.

[The King in Crimson]

The new Blu Ray TNG remasters look stunning.

If I ever get a Blu Ray player - TNG will be the first thing i'd get.

I'm pretty impressed so far (I've only watched a few episodes). For a show that's over twenty years old, they really did a good job cleaning it up and making it look good. If they ever do this to DS9, I'll be very tempted to get the entire series as opposed to just a season or two. My wallet will hate me though.

I cast a vote for DS9 myself.

Yeah, DS9's easily my favorite.

I don't hate Wesley as much as other people do, but I still don't think he holds a candle to Jake.  He was a decent character once the writers finally managed to inject a bit of character into him other than the 'know-it-all boy wonder.' Still, I never really understood the vociferous hate that he received, but then I didn't start watching TNG religiously until near the end and so I didn't see much of the first two seasons until much, much later. In season 3 and onward he's less the boy wonder and more just a smart crew member who happens to be a kid, but in seasons 1 and 2 (especially season 1), he's an irritating little prick who's right most of the time because the writers wanted him to be. For someone who started watching when the show was new, I guess I could see how those first two seasons might forever taint his character.

Jake was just a regular kid and I thought his relationship with Ben was one of the highlights of the series. A father and son relationship that felt real and wasn't all saccharine sweetness. Plus, he actually had some good episodes that focused on him whereas most of the Wesley-centric episodes tended to suck or (at best) were semi-tolerable.

[El Barto]

I don't hate Wesley as much as other people do, but I still don't think he holds a candle to Jake.  He was a decent character once the writers finally managed to inject a bit of character into him other than the 'know-it-all boy wonder.' Still, I never really understood the vociferous hate that he received, but then I didn't start watching TNG religiously until near the end and so I didn't see much of the first two seasons until much, much later. In season 3 and onward he's less the boy wonder and more just a smart crew member who happens to be a kid, but in seasons 1 and 2 (especially season 1), he's an irritating little prick who's right most of the time because the writers wanted him to be. For someone who started watching when the show was new, I guess I could see how those first two seasons might forever taint his character.

Here's what I think people often overlook about old bastards such as myself. I remember when TNG was new. I excitedly watched the pilot back when I was a sophomore in HS. We had all grown up on TOS, where there was some darkness and the characters had, well, character. Kirk was a great captain who wanted to get laid (a lot) and hit people. He had good friends who were immensely competent and yet not afraid to tell him if he was full of shit to the extent that they'd fight over things. In other words, real people. Then TNG comes out and it's the completely opposite, thanks to Roddenberry's insistence that humanity has evolved to a point where they're far superior to all of us and smug about it. That's not what we wanted to see. It wasn't awful when it was actually being science fiction-y, but it wasn't really ST, either. Wesley was pretty much the personification of everything that was annoying about it. So what, now humanity has evovled to the point where even 15 year olds are idealized paragons of perfection and not obnoxious assholes? Sounds awful. Also, they had a tendency to use him in a "afterschool special" capacity, where they'd lecture people about grave social issues with Wesley and the youth stand in.

"Wesley, on my home world, there was so much poverty and violence that for some people, the only escape was through drugs."
"How can a chemical substance provide an escape?"
"It doesn't. But it makes you think it does."

    - Tasha Yar and Wesley Crusher, discussing drug addiction

Jesus Christ, really?

[Kotowboy]

They did, from time to time.  The aforementioned "Frame of Mind" is a good example.  Also, the silly the one where Deanna is having nightmares ("one moon circles") and there's another nightmare one where it turns out they're all being experimented on in their sleep by aliens or something.

But yeah, it seemed like they just wanted to keep things light for the most part.

I've been in this room before...

Great episode.

[rumborak]

EB, you're over-generalizing from yourself to others. I was 13 when TNG started, and I, like many others, were drawn by the attempt of showing this "brave new world". At the age of 13, I probably would not have appreciated DS9's message of " whatever you don't like about the present, well boohoo, it's gonna be the same in the future". TNG was squeaky-clean, for sure, but it was a bit like Carl Sagan's "Cosmos": Let's escape for a while from the pesky meddlings of humans (aka the Cold War), and step into a shiny spaceship to see what's out there.

[El Barto]

EB, you're over-generalizing from yourself to others. I was 13 when TNG started, and I, like many others, were drawn by the attempt of showing this "brave new world". At the age of 13, I probably would not have appreciated DS9's message of " whatever you don't like about the present, well boohoo, it's gonna be the same in the future". TNG was squeaky-clean, for sure, but it was a bit like Carl Sagan's "Cosmos": Let's escape for a while from the pesky meddlings of humans (aka the Cold War), and step into a shiny spaceship to see what's out there.

But had you grown up watching TOS? Part of the deal is that TOS was set in a far better future, especially when compared to when it aired. The multicultural cast, the aversion to war, the notion that people were provided for all led to a tremendously optimistic outlook; that was a huge part of its appeal. Yet the original cast were all still humans (Spock obviously excepted).

[rumborak]

Yeah, but TOS was shown in '66, where there was no Cold War, TNG was during the Cold War, and DS9 was after it. I think you're somewhat judging TNG outside its historical context.

[The King in Crimson]

There wasn't a Cold War in 1966?

[El Barto]

There was a cold war in 1987?

[rumborak]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War#.22Second_Cold_War.22_.281979.E2.80.9385.29

Ok, right after the Second Cold War.

And '66 and after was rather a lull in the original Cold War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War#Confrontation_through_d.C3.A9tente_.281962.E2.80.9379.29