Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[El Barto]

I'm viewing this in terms of American concern and optimism. In the sixties there was still a very real concern over nuclear war. Remember this isn't too long after Cuba. In the 80's the whole fear of being nuked was pretty much a relic.

[rumborak]

Errrrr .... what?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan#Escalation_of_the_Cold_War

I'm gonna watch me some "Land of Confusion" video now, if you'll excuse me...

[El Barto]

I'm guessing that moods here and in Germany were probably significantly different.  That cheesy, puppet riddled video was about as scary as the nuclear threat got to us growing up in the 80's. There was Afghanistan and the KAL shootdown, but by that time we were pretty well resigned to the fact that world leaders were sane enough not to blow up the planet. Back in the sixties they were still having it drilled into their heads that the Rooskies were crazed monsters biding their time before bombing us to hell and back.

If you're not familiar with it you might check out The Atomic Cafe. It was made in the 80's using old nuclear warfare and civil defense newsreels as a source for black humor. Would provide some perspective on the mindset of Americans during the real cold war, as well as some pretty good comedy. The part where the natives of Bikini express their gratitude to the US for coming to relocate them so their island can be blown to bits is a real hoot.

[jammindude]

Ummmmm. Two Minutes to Midnight? The Day After?

I was scared s***less in the 80's when i was a kid.

[El Barto]

Ummmmm. Two Minutes to Midnight? The Day After?

I was scared s***less in the 80's when i was a kid.

Really? Huh. If I'm wrong then so be it. Can only go by what the mood was down here and nobody in my area really gave serious consideration that Ivan might blow us up. As it relates to ST, just seems to me like comparing 1966 to 1987 in terms of optimism is a complete blowout. Add domestic turmoil to that and the late '60s were pretty rough. A huge chunk of TOS's popularity was based on how bright everything could be in the future.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, EB, there was still very much a feeling of "Red Menace" during that time.  This is when Tom Clancy first became popular with books like The Hunt for Red October and Red Storm Rising,  and films like Red Dawn were coming out.  We were definitely afraid of the Soviets and the possibility of war, nuclear or otherwise.

[Dublagent66]

I've been recording and watching the remastered versions of the original series on METV.  Normally, 1 episode records weekly every Saturday night.  This last Friday I noticed my DVR was recording and much to my surprise it was Star Trek.  I'm saying to myself, "Cool! They added an extra night every week and my DVR actually picked it up."  LOL.  I recognized the description of the episode as it mentioned "Talos IV".  Right on, "The Menagerie" and as most Star Trek fans know, that is the only 2 part episode in the original series.  So, I wait for it to finish recording (so I can FF through commercials) and start watching.  Wait a minute!  This is part 2 of the epidode.  What happened to part 1?  Unbelievable!  They either aired part 1 on Thursday night (which isn't very likely) or someone at the METV network is an astronomical bonehead.  Hellooooooooo!

 

[Orbert]

[Kotowboy]

I've realised recently that Brent Spiner is the William Shatner of TNG.

[ddtonfire]

So I'm just finishing up TNG, and after I watch the movies, I will start on DS9. I have never watched this series all the way through, only an episode here or there. What should I expect in regards to this series?

[Dublagent66]

  Congratulations.  Hope that post wasn't too difficult for you.

[El Barto]

So I'm just finishing up TNG, and after I watch the movies, I will start on DS9. I have never watched this series all the way through, only an episode here or there. What should I expect in regards to this series?

Bad acting and excellent episodes/seasons. It's much darker than the other series and features extended story arcs, including a war that covers the last 3 seasons. Also some excellent characters, although not the ones they initially introduce. The really interesting folks will come along later.

[ddtonfire]

Thanks, sounds like I'll have to be patient through the first season or so... not unlike TNG. 

[King Postwhore]

Spot on El Barto.  You will not be disappointed.

[El Barto]

Thanks, sounds like I'll have to be patient through the first season or so... not unlike TNG. 

Nah, first season is fine (although I thought the premier really sucked). It doesn't deal with the Dominion or the Klingons so it's not as well liked as 3-7, but it's perfectly entertaining. If you can stomach the constant Israel allegories the whole Bajor thing is quite interesting and the various flair ups with the Kardassians, settlers and separatists make for good TV.

[Orbert]

  Congratulations.  Hope that post wasn't too difficult for you.

I wondered if you thought I'd posted that in reponse to your post.  I didn't.  I just found it elsewhere and posted it here because it was funny and Trek-related.  (Then I looked and it kinda fit, so I left it.)

Actually, it annoys me too when TV stations/networks do stupid shit like not keep two-part episodes together.

[The King in Crimson]

So I'm just finishing up TNG, and after I watch the movies, I will start on DS9. I have never watched this series all the way through, only an episode here or there. What should I expect in regards to this series?

Seven seasons of pure awesomeness. If you can tolerate TOS's hammy acting then DS9 will be easy. The first season - the pilot especially which has some utterly dreadful acting by near everyone - is the worst but everyone grows into their characters around season 3 and it becomes pretty much excellent from there on.

[ddtonfire]

Can't wait to start DS9 then! I promise I won't complain about it as much as TNG.

[BlobVanDam]

DS9 starts off stronger than any of the other Trek shows, with easily the best pilot, and only gets better as it goes. Enjoy.

[Nefarius]

A friend of mine and I often meet on weekend days for movies, TV shows, music, arts and creative stuff, crazy talk and good food. She got me into Adventure Time and Bravest Warriors, I got her into Ayreon and Sherlock. So we've come to a certain level of trust about each other's tastes and their compatibility.

A few weeks back she asked me something I never thought I'd get to hear from anyone: "I don't really know a lot about it and although I'm used to making fun of it there has to be a good reason it has so many devoted fans like you and a strong influence on their lives... would you teach me Star Trek?"



It made me smile and gasp simultaneously. What an opportunity, what a task! The afternoon continued with another movie and ice cream. After that she asked me when we could start and I said: "When I'm done preparing a curriculum..." - a nice way for a return gasp.

So I started picking the TOS essentials for good stories, character moments and interaction, dramatic and fun highlights, and stuff that is referenced in future incarnations. The result was a list of 20 episodes. I've been a little afraid because usually the 60ies stuff doesn't work too well with younger people (she is 22), but so far she loves every minute of it. Over the last three meetings we covered 18 of the 20 episodes, I also added "Where No Fan Has Gone Before" (Futurama) for a little extra fun. Next up is the remaining two TOS episodes and then we'll continue with the first six movies.

It has been challenging for me not to pause every few minutes and elaborate on background information and details but so far I managed to only provide evil teasers (like "one will see the other die", when she commented on Kirk/Spock chemistry) and no spoilers at all. I can't wait to see and hear her reacting to all the things that are yet to come.

I've already prepared a 40 episode essentials list of TNG with an old friend, ex co-worker, and fellow Trek nut and just started rewatching DS9 myself to be able to do the same for that show as I've noticed I was a little rusty in knowing which early episodes had the character defining moments.

All I can say is that so far it's been a thrill to be along for the ride with someone on a journey I enjoyed so much quite a few years ago and I can't wait for it to continue.

Greetings...
Nef

[BlobVanDam]

Bonus points for including the Futurama episode. Such a good homage to TOS, and it's the only way she'll learn about Welshy!

[Orbert]

she asked me when we could start and I said: "When I'm done preparing a curriculum..."

That is awesome.  These things must be done properly.  You're doing it right.

[El Barto]

Twenty and forty episodes would be about right, me thinks. I know when I put together a list of TNG episodes I could stomach watching again it was 67. Probably 20 or so of those wound up being far more awful than I remembered, so 40 seems like a good number. I figure the hard part would be trying to pick expository episodes rather than good episodes. There are plenty of good TOS episodes that don't really do much to expand on characters (A Taste of Armageddon). Similarly, there are some that I don't enjoy at all that provide valuable character insight (The Galileo 7).

[Kotowboy]

I'm sure some people in this thread don't actually like Star trek

[Nefarius]

Selecting the TOS episodes was very easy as there isn't really any introduction phase or developing background story, just pick the essential ones, the cool ones and those with character background and you're done.

With TNG there's quite a bit more to keep in mind: References to TOS and future spin-offs, the background stories (Worf's family and the Empire, Data's development and Lore, Q interactions and the Borg, Wesley and the Traveler, Tasha to Enterprise C to Sela, ...). My initial list had 60 episodes which would have been overkill. There were a few hard decisions like omitting the Chain Of Command and Birthright two-parters (and other episodes I really like), which are great but not really necessary.

DS9 is much harder and like I said I need a rewatch to be able to select the episodes. There's character development spread over a few slower ones in the first two seasons which are nice but not really necessary. And with the destruction of the Odyssey in 2x26 and the 3x01-02 Search two-parter with the introduction of the Defiant and the founders the overarching story starts sooner than what it feels like when thinking back to the last time I watched it. Not to mention how hard it will be to omit episodes once Worf is on board and Dominion background information is in almost every episode.

VOY is mostly self-contained and doesn't really have a lot of background story besides "getting home", so it will be much easier to trim down to the cool episodes.

ENT is probably the hardest to shorten, as it's riddled with references, has a full season 3 arc and the mini arcs in season 4 and many nice episodes in the first two seasons as well.

Then again I don't know if she's really up to go the full distance, nor if it's wise to do so. Maybe it would be better to stop after DS9 and let her explore the rest on her own. After all the goal is to get her into the story and characters and make it much more enjoyable to discover all the little details and additional information in yet unseen episodes later, whenever she decides to watch them.

If someone's interested in my episode lists, I'll post them.

Greetings...
Nef

[Kotowboy]

Just tell her to watch all of TNG and then say " Imagine a shit version of that and you've got Voyager - and imagine that on a space station with series story arcs and you've got DS9. Then imagine it again but 100 years before Kirk and you've got Enterprise "

[BlobVanDam]

Just tell her to watch all of TNG and then say " Imagine a shit version of that and you've got Voyager - and imagine that on a space station with series story arcs and you've got DS9. Then imagine it again but 100 years before Kirk and you've got Enterprise "

Except that none of those are correct.

[Kotowboy]

Hence the " "

Also I thought i'd try Hating on Star Trek for a change. It seems that's de rigeur in this thread. . .

A thread about Star Trek where all positive opinions are frowned upon.

[BlobVanDam]

I thought the "" was more like dismissing the other series. I have trouble recognizing Kotowboy humour!

I think we just have a lot of love/hate in this thread for just about every series and movie. Maybe some day we will find that elusive thing we all unanimously adore.

[El Barto]

Selecting the TOS episodes was very easy as there isn't really any introduction phase or developing background story, just pick the essential ones, the cool ones and those with character background and you're done.

With TNG there's quite a bit more to keep in mind: References to TOS and future spin-offs, the background stories (Worf's family and the Empire, Data's development and Lore, Q interactions and the Borg, Wesley and the Traveler, Tasha to Enterprise C to Sela, ...). My initial list had 60 episodes which would have been overkill. There were a few hard decisions like omitting the Chain Of Command and Birthright two-parters (and other episodes I really like), which are great but not really necessary.

DS9 is much harder and like I said I need a rewatch to be able to select the episodes. There's character development spread over a few slower ones in the first two seasons which are nice but not really necessary. And with the destruction of the Odyssey in 2x26 and the 3x01-02 Search two-parter with the introduction of the Defiant and the founders the overarching story starts sooner than what it feels like when thinking back to the last time I watched it. Not to mention how hard it will be to omit episodes once Worf is on board and Dominion background information is in almost every episode.

VOY is mostly self-contained and doesn't really have a lot of background story besides "getting home", so it will be much easier to trim down to the cool episodes.

ENT is probably the hardest to shorten, as it's riddled with references, has a full season 3 arc and the mini arcs in season 4 and many nice episodes in the first two seasons as well.

Then again I don't know if she's really up to go the full distance, nor if it's wise to do so. Maybe it would be better to stop after DS9 and let her explore the rest on her own. After all the goal is to get her into the story and characters and make it much more enjoyable to discover all the little details and additional information in yet unseen episodes later, whenever she decides to watch them.

If someone's interested in my episode lists, I'll post them.

Greetings...
Nef

You might consider skipping from TNG to VOY continuing with the selections, with the implicit advice that the best series by far needs to be watched pretty much as a whole. If she's up for it she can watch it on her own at that point. Like you said, there's too much development in the lesser episodes. That's something I come up with quite a bit since I'll omit 10-15% of the series when I rewatch through it. If you are going to do selections with it I'd consult Memory Alpha to find out what continuity issues there are with everything you skip. When you factor in the required understanding of Bajoran customs and religion, Dax's history, Bashir being a mutant, and the whole Odo/changeling/Founder thing it's pretty hard to watch it in a non-serialized way. At best I'd plan on watching all but the patently standalone episodes (mirror universe, alternate timelines, dreams, etc.).

I'd skip Birthright, as well, despite it being an alright episode. As for CoC, that's a tougher call. I don't think it's as good as people make it out to be (largely an excuse for Piccard to emote a while), I'd probably still include it since it's a good background on the Kardassians and also shows that not everybody in Starfleet is as bland as the TNG crew. (woud have been a better series if they'd kept Jellico)

[Kotowboy]

I thought the "" was more like dismissing the other series. I have trouble recognizing Kotowboy humour!

I think we just have a lot of love/hate in this thread for just about every series and movie. Maybe some day we will find that elusive thing we all unanimously adore.

Wrath of Khan for instance.

It is weird how in STID - Enterprise doesn't fire a single phaser or torpedo in the entire film.

Has that ever happened before in a Trek film ? Voyage Home probably 

[Orbert]

Wrath of Khan for instance.

It is weird how in STID - Enterprise doesn't fire a single phaser or torpedo in the entire film.

Has that ever happened before in a Trek film ? Voyage Home probably 

Whoa, I never thought about that. Seriously.


Also, this:

[Kotowboy]

When the walls fell.

[chknptpie]

  holy crap

[JayOctavarium]