Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[LBC.]

Hello everybody.

I`m not the facebook guy.

*snip*

Please don't link to that.  It's a mistake and hasn't been cleared yet for release.

Ok, but the information is very clear:

*snip*

All right.

[darkshade]

While that's true, technically Illumination Theory is a suite too. As is Octavarium and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.

The definition of a suite or a song is a bit open ended and open to interpretation, especially a 'suite' in non-classical music. A lot of bands use it to refer to a group of distinct, separate songs that go together. For instance, on Awake, DT refer to Erotomania, Voices, and The Silent Man as the 'A Mind Beside Itself' suite.

Six Degrees really blurs the lines as to whether it's a suite of movements making up one song, or a suite of songs with common themes and recurring melodies.

A Mind Beside Itself is definitely an odd one out. I always felt like they wrote the songs separately and then decided to tie them together. I expect the False Awakening Suite to be more unified than that. In fact, I expect the three parts to be just as unified as Six Degrees or Octavarium. Which is part of why I consider most of the multi part epics to be suites as well. Just because they don't indicate that it's a suite doesn't mean it isn't. I'd say Six Degrees would definitely count as one. Like you said, a suite of movements making up one song. Octavarium isn't as obvious but the 5 movements are pretty distinct.

Except they didn't. There are musical passages and theme's that reoccurs throughout all three songs. They're just very subtle most of the time, which is quite awesome if you ask me.

If False Awakening Suite is anything like that, I'll be very happy.

They still could have written the 3 AMBI tunes separately, especially since many themes appear and reappear throughout Awake. To be honest, aside from a few reprises, each "movement" is very much its own legitimate piece of music.

[wolven74]

[url]https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suite?s=t/url]

So, according to this, 8VM would be considered a suite too. It's in an ascending key (or is it descending?), and all the movements are connected.

My guess for FAS is something very similar to 8VM more than 6DOIT, with the orchestra more predominant throughout.

[Flacracker]

What is happening in here?

[fadetoblackdude7]

So....anybody have an idea as to when episode 2 will air?

[GasparXR]

Sometime after episode 1 and before episode 3.

[theseoafs]

So, according to this, 8VM would be considered a suite too. It's in an ascending key (or is it descending?), and all the movements are connected.

What is an "ascending key"?  That doesn't describe 8V.  It's in a few different keys, and doesn't "ascend" in any way.

[Scotto123]

Sometime after episode 1 and before episode 3.

[wolven74]

So, according to this, 8VM would be considered a suite too. It's in an ascending key (or is it descending?), and all the movements are connected.

What is an "ascending key"?  That doesn't describe 8V.  It's in a few different keys, and doesn't "ascend" in any way.

I heard that the concept for the album was that it started in one key & ended in the same key after ascending or descending through the 8 points (keys?) of an octave. I thought the song did the same thing as the album. Someone here will shoot down my limited music theory knowledge I'm sure.

[Implode]

Most of Octavarium is in f minor. Medicate is in A major, but I'm pretty sure the rest is in f.

[GasparXR]

Most of Octavarium is in f minor. Medicate is in A major, but I'm pretty sure the rest is in f.

Yep. Parts of the pre-Full Circle and post-Full Circle instrumentals are in E major though, and I believe the vocal part of Razor's Edge is in D minor.

[Ad134]

Most of Octavarium is in f minor. Medicate is in A major, but I'm pretty sure the rest is in f.

They're referring to the album Octavarium, not the song Octavarium.

The Root of All Evil = F minor
The Answer Lies Within = G minor
These Walls = A minor
I Walk Beside You = B minor
Panic Attack = C minor
Never Enough = D minor
Sacrificed Sons = E minor
Octavarium = F minor

[Implode]

Ah, yes. The album has an ascending pattern. I just assumed we were talking about the song since we were talking about a song on DT12.

[Mosh]

Most of Octavarium is in f minor. Medicate is in A major, but I'm pretty sure the rest is in f.

Yep. Parts of the pre-Full Circle and post-Full Circle instrumentals are in E major though, and I believe the vocal part of Razor's Edge is in D minor.

Just took a look, Razor's Edge is all in F.
Except they didn't. There are musical passages and theme's that reoccurs throughout all three songs. They're just very subtle most of the time, which is quite awesome if you ask me.

While that's true, technically Illumination Theory is a suite too. As is Octavarium and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.

The definition of a suite or a song is a bit open ended and open to interpretation, especially a 'suite' in non-classical music. A lot of bands use it to refer to a group of distinct, separate songs that go together. For instance, on Awake, DT refer to Erotomania, Voices, and The Silent Man as the 'A Mind Beside Itself' suite.

Six Degrees really blurs the lines as to whether it's a suite of movements making up one song, or a suite of songs with common themes and recurring melodies.

A Mind Beside Itself is definitely an odd one out. I always felt like they wrote the songs separately and then decided to tie them together. I expect the False Awakening Suite to be more unified than that. In fact, I expect the three parts to be just as unified as Six Degrees or Octavarium. Which is part of why I consider most of the multi part epics to be suites as well. Just because they don't indicate that it's a suite doesn't mean it isn't. I'd say Six Degrees would definitely count as one. Like you said, a suite of movements making up one song. Octavarium isn't as obvious but the 5 movements are pretty distinct.

Except they didn't. There are musical passages and theme's that reoccurs throughout all three songs. They're just very subtle most of the time, which is quite awesome if you ask me.

If False Awakening Suite is anything like that, I'll be very happy.

They still could have written the 3 AMBI tunes separately, especially since many themes appear and reappear throughout Awake. To be honest, aside from a few reprises, each "movement" is very much its own legitimate piece of music.

Oh I know they probably wrote them together, but it really doesn't sound that way. I consider each "movement" as its own song. By the way, what parts are reprised in AMBI besides the Silent Man thing in Erotomania?

[?]

The Silent Man was written before the rest of AMBI:

The Silent Man (which JP had written at the end of 1993 and he, James and Kev even performed it on Korean TV while we were there for a promotional tour in Jan 1994)

[jdprsaga]

The Silent Man was written before the rest of AMBI:

The Silent Man (which JP had written at the end of 1993 and he, James and Kev even performed it on Korean TV while we were there for a promotional tour in Jan 1994)

Well that doesn't mean Petrucci couldn't have used the broad Idea behind The silent Man when he wrote voices and even when they decided to name erotomania the opening instrumental. there is definitely a link for all of them (lyrics and with the name of the instrumental)

Just as Portnoy wrote the glass prison many years before he wrote Repentance or the shattered fortress but we all agree they are all part of the 12-steps suit.

[hefdaddy42]

Oh I know they probably wrote them together, but it really doesn't sound that way. I consider each "movement" as its own song.

Not sure where you get that.  It definitely sounds unified to me, and it is most certainly one song, not a collection of songs.

[?]

Although I love AMBI I wouldn't call it one song. It does feel more unified than Six Degrees though.

[tiagodon]

Donīt you guys think that the decision to make it a self titled album is kind of disrespectful towards Mike Portnoy?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

No. But I think it's boring.

[cyberdrummer]

No, not really.

[Jaffa]

Oh I know they probably wrote them together, but it really doesn't sound that way. I consider each "movement" as its own song.

Not sure where you get that.  It definitely sounds unified to me, and it is most certainly one song, not a collection of songs.

Pretty sure he was talking about AMBI for that part, not Octavarium. 

[Mosh]

Oh I know they probably wrote them together, but it really doesn't sound that way. I consider each "movement" as its own song.

Not sure where you get that.  It definitely sounds unified to me, and it is most certainly one song, not a collection of songs.

Pretty sure he was talking about AMBI for that part, not Octavarium.

Yes I was. If it was one song, then they would've labeled it as such. They barely even play the entire thing live.

[theseoafs]

Donīt you guys think that the decision to make it a self titled album is kind of disrespectful towards Mike Portnoy?

No.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Donīt you guys think that the decision to make it a self titled album is kind of disrespectful towards Mike Portnoy?

No.

[LBC.]

The DT12 cover art is perfect for Mangini`s drum kit.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

[Lynxo]

Donīt you guys think that the decision to make it a self titled album is kind of disrespectful towards Mike Portnoy?

Say what?

[wolven74]

Donīt you guys think that the decision to make it a self titled album is kind of disrespectful towards Mike Portnoy?

What possible reason could naming an album after the band be disrespectful toward a former band member?

[wolven74]

The DT12 cover art is perfect for Mangini`s drum kit.

Please explain.... 

[Sketchy]

Donīt you guys think that the decision to make it a self titled album is kind of disrespectful towards Mike Portnoy?

Not at all. It's a "hey, this is us as we are now." rather than anything underhand.

[KevShmev]

Donīt you guys think that the decision to make it a self titled album is kind of disrespectful towards Mike Portnoy?

 

[Kotowboy]

Frankly I

a.) don't give a shit what MP thinks of it. He quit the band - they can do what they want.


b.) look forward to his Passive aggressive jabs at it in the social media.

[eosforum]

Hey man, no reason to talk like that about MP. Like him or not he was in that band for 25 years and deserves to be discussed with the same subtlety as the current members.

[wasteland]

Hey, it's okay He expressed his own opinion, which also happens to be not shared by us almost on a plebiscite level! In all fairness, no, I don't think it's disrespectful at all. They owe to Mike Portnoy a part of their past just like Mike Portnoy owes a part of his to them, but right now they have no obligation towards him.

Dream Theater is who they are, and they don't have to say "sorry" or "please" to anyone to state their identity on a musical level.