Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[BlobVanDam]

The official list of the super epics is-
ACOS
SDOIT
Octavarium
ITPOE

Three out of these four are in my top 3... So Illumination Theory has some pretty strong stuff to live up too. Trying not to hype IT up that much but it's a bit difficult seing how their other 20+ epics have turned out.

While SDOIT is #1/2 for me, the rest aren't in my top 20 (or in somes cases even top 50).

But I believe this is going to be a great epic, very possibly one of their best. BCASL was touted as the album of epics, and the album suffered a bit for it, and after that you could tell DT made an effort to restore the balance with ADTOE, with relatively more conservative song lengths.

So for them to come back the album right after that and write the big 20+ minute epic again tells me that this must be really good to justify it, rather than just some obligatory long song. Plus we know there's an orchestra, which you'd think would be utilized on the epic to make it more epic, like Octavarium.

And then we have the section names, which just throw me off completely. I don't know what to expect, but I think it gon' be good.

[BlackwaterPerk]

I have the feeling that the epic is going to be very modern sounding, like in the vein of In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1 or maybe even The Great Debate. 

[hefdaddy42]

I have the feeling that the epic is going to be very modern sounding, like in the vein of In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1 or maybe even The Great Debate. 

[BlackInk]

Even though In the Presence of Enemies is one of my favorites, I don't want another epic sounding like it. I want something with it's own identity, not like oh it sounds like this or that.

Never really liked The Great Debate.

[BlobVanDam]

I think every epic so far has had its own distinct identity, and I think that will certainly be the case with the new one too. I doubt this lineup would do a 20+ minute song that is as heavy as ITPOE.
I'm getting the feeling of something like the best parts of Octavarium, TCOT and ACOS rolled into one.

[aprilethereal]

I guess it will be BAI-ish style wise, or generally speaking: more mellow over all than TCOT, ITPOE or even SDOIT.

[BlobVanDam]

I hope not, and I expect not (as I find BAI to be bland in terms of style).
By the movement names, I'm expecting something darker, ranging from dark and mellow to dark and heavy, all utilizing the orchestra to sound deliciously epic.

[olliemedsy]

I hope not, and I expect not (as I find BAI to be bland in terms of style).
By the movement names, I'm expecting something darker, ranging from dark and mellow to dark and heavy, all utilizing the orchestra to sound deliciously epic.

In the end, I only see the changes being light to dark, dark to light, light to dark, dark to light.

[aprilethereal]

We shall wait and see!

[?]

especially with the advent of digital players and my beloved "shuffle" option, I rarely listen to any one artist's work all the way through.

I think you just made Steven Wilson cry

[JayOctavarium]

I picture an epic with a tone similar to Scarred (lol don't kill me Blob)

[BlobVanDam]

I picture an epic with a tone similar to Scarred (lol don't kill me Blob)

I wouldn't do that, my friend!













I'd kill Dream Theater.

[wasteland]

I'm expecting something similar to Octavarium structure-wise, without all the wackiness in the center and more lyric heavy. I believe that all in all this album will definitely have a vaster amount of lyrics compared to the last few ones, instrumental pieces aside.

[sueño]

especially with the advent of digital players and my beloved "shuffle" option, I rarely listen to any one artist's work all the way through.

I think you just made Steven Wilson cry

 

Sorry.  Told you I'm new at this ...

[iamtheeviltwin]

Lyrically I would love another epic that tells a cohesive story like A Change of Seasons or ITPOE.  However, looking at the tracklist I expect something more inline with Six Degrees, more of a suite.

Musically, I just want DT. 

[Moor]

I'm expecting something similar to Octavarium structure-wise, without all the wackiness in the center and more lyric heavy. I believe that all in all this album will definitely have a vaster amount of lyrics compared to the last few ones, instrumental pieces aside.

I wish that this album will set forth a new benchmark for DT rather than being similar to previous releases! IMO having a very solid fanbase and a courageous record label (Opeth's Heritage proves that) allow them to explore innovative grounds.

I am writing this and listening in my ears for the 1st time BTBAM's cover for Us & Them ! OH MY GOD, THEY NAILED IT !!

[hefdaddy42]

This is a rather new concept for me, this listening to an album as a whole.

I generally like entire albums of music that I have, but especially with the advent of digital players and my beloved "shuffle" option, I rarely listen to any one artist's work all the way through.  I see where albums, particularly rock, it seems (jazz does too, to a degree), would produce a work meant to be enjoyed "in order".  It's just interesting to me...it's not how I listen to music.

Not saying that won't change, tho...      This is all very educational.   

You seem to be an older person, but you weren't accustomed to just putting on a record or cassette and pushing "Play"?  Or even a CD?

I'm baffled.

[sueño]

This is a rather new concept for me, this listening to an album as a whole.

I generally like entire albums of music that I have, but especially with the advent of digital players and my beloved "shuffle" option, I rarely listen to any one artist's work all the way through.  I see where albums, particularly rock, it seems (jazz does too, to a degree), would produce a work meant to be enjoyed "in order".  It's just interesting to me...it's not how I listen to music.

Not saying that won't change, tho...      This is all very educational.   

You seem to be an older person, but you weren't accustomed to just putting on a record or cassette and pushing "Play"?  Or even a CD?

I'm baffled.

Yeah, I'm "older".      Sure, I listened to records all the way through all the time.  But rarely as a formal, "sit down and focus/listen" (usually doing other things) and as I mentioned,  most music I listened to were more collections of singles than flowing, continuous concepts that should be enjoyed together.   Think of most pop and R&B, albums.  Classical and jazz albums can be like that but I wasn't really groovin' to that in middle/high school.

Plus, as a kid, I rarely had cash for an entire album.  Random 45s for me.   

[hefdaddy42]

Think of most pop and R&B, albums. 

No, thanks, I'd rather not.

[sueño]

Think of most pop and R&B, albums. 

No, thanks, I'd rather not.

Hey, don't be a snob.  There's not much music I don't like.  I like deep...but I like fun, too.

I just wasn't exposed to concept music as a kid.  No FM on my little transistor (no touching dad's radio!).  I didn't have a proper FM tuner til I was 15.  Up til that time, it was strictly AM top 40 for me.  I.m just glad play lists were much more diverse than they are now.

So.  No Pink Floyd, no Zeppelin, no Rush, no Dream Theater.  These are adult, acquired tastes for me.  And delicious.
T

[FlyingBIZKIT]

 

[theseoafs]

By the movement names, I'm expecting something darker, ranging from dark and mellow to dark and heavy, all utilizing the orchestra to sound deliciously epic.

This is my impression too -- and it hurts me to say that, because whenever I think of a DT "dark, heavy epic", I think of ITPOE and TMOLS and ANTR, which are some of the weaker songs in the DT vocabulary.  Nevertheless, I have a lot of faith in the new lineup, so I'm looking forward to them churning out a darker epic and getting it right.

[?]

I'm expecting something similar to Octavarium structure-wise, without all the wackiness in the center and more lyric heavy.

I could live with that.

[senecadawg2]

I'm just hoping that, sonically, the epic doesn't resemble anything DT has done thus far. I came to the conclusion, long ago, that Dream Theater would never come up with another Change of Seasons, and any attempt to do so would not succeed. Not to say that they couldn't come up with something just as good, maybe even better in some ways, but it's got to be different.

The same applies to albums, in the case of I&W, Awake, and SFAM. Those three are masterpieces (SDOIT deserves a mention here too, I suppose), and their magic cannot be repeated. ADTOE is the perfect example of a great album, that didn't ultimately grow like I would have hoped, because of it's I&W Version 2.0 feel. Many of the connections are just in my head, and some may even be imaginary, but they are there. And while V2.0 is supposed to be an upgrade, that's impossible when it comes to an album like I&W.

Which brings me to the upcoming self titled album, said to encapsulate the sound, style, and technique of Dream Theater's musical personality. While that kind of bold statement of self-definition is very exciting for me, I just hope it isn't an attempt to recreate the old. There's a big difference between 'This is Dream Theater' and 'This is Dream Theater, and we are moving'.

[Progressive Metal Fusion]

By the movement names, I'm expecting something darker, ranging from dark and mellow to dark and heavy, all utilizing the orchestra to sound deliciously epic.

Never thought that way, but it's absolutely a brilliant thought.
Seeing the whole thing in that way, all my expectations for this album are increasing enormously! 

[matte.braso]

if we consider

ACOS: 23min., 7 parts (3+ min per part)
8V: 24m., 5 parts (roughly 5m. per part)
ITPOE: 25m., 6 parts (4+m per part)
Illumination Theory: 20m., 5 parts (4m. per part)

The average minutes per part is not an indicator of quality, but we can however assume that IT presents larger variety of musical content than most recent suites. ACOS is something unreachable, cosindering how many ideas are contained within. Not saying ACOS is the best between them, just noticing we may have a suite made up by concise and various ideas, just like already stated for the other songs on the S/T album.
In fact, for me, the most important difference between the last two album was this concept of extending too much musical ideas (BC&SL) or keeping a sort of balance giving the right space for every ones (ADTOE). In this sense, with MM, DT has improved a lot, imho.

[wolven74]

"There's a big difference between 'This is Dream Theater' and 'This is Dream Theater, and we are moving'.

I don't think they can have a new writing partner and not be moving forward. Sure ADTOE had a pretty strong I&W feel in some parts, but they didn't have MM writing with them yet. I'm sure this will be a great showcase for each band members talents.

[Dacling]

if we consider

ACOS: 23min., 7 parts (3+ min per part)
8V: 24m., 5 parts (roughly 5m. per part)
ITPOE: 25m., 6 parts (4+m per part)
Illumination Theory: 20m., 5 parts (4m. per part)

The average minutes per part is not an indicator of quality, but we can however assume that IT presents larger variety of musical content than most recent suites. ACOS is something unreachable, cosindering how many ideas are contained within. Not saying ACOS is the best between them, just noticing we may have a suite made up by concise and various ideas, just like already stated for the other songs on the S/T album.
In fact, for me, the most important difference between the last two album was this concept of extending too much musical ideas (BC&SL) or keeping a sort of balance giving the right space for every ones (ADTOE). In this sense, with MM, DT has improved a lot, imho.

Of course 4 minutes per part is assuming it's 20 minutes and not more. It could easily be anywhere from 20 - 29 minutes. 20+ minutes is so vague that it could be 30 minutes and the rest of the songs are shorter like they have said. We can't tell until they release the track times.

[matte.braso]

of course mine's a speculation, but they've never reached 5m. avg per part, so I fairly doubt it could be more than 25m. long...but who knows, all is possible

[?]

I think the RR guys would've said the new epic is 25+ minutes long if that was the case, so I bet it will be approximately as long as ACOS or Octavarium, if not shorter.

[cyberdrummer]

Somewhere around the 22/23 minute mark I would think.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

22:46

[wolven74]

I think the RR guys would've said the new epic is 25+ minutes long if that was the case, so I bet it will be approximately as long as ACOS or Octavarium, if not shorter.

I'm gonna guess on the low end of 20-25 minutes

[cyberdrummer]

22:46

We're playing that game, are we?

22:33.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

hmm, divisible by 11. Clever.