Red - Feed The Machine vs. DT - BMU, BMD

[gentaishinigami]

It's really a shame what Portnoy posted.   I mean calling out DT for plagiarism is slanderous.  I get the feeling that Portnoy wants to be back in DT really really bad, but he can't so he's just going to be taking shots to them here or there.

Well, the way you get back with an estrainged wife doesn't include beating her up. Id say the "divorce" here has been more than finalized. It looks like a restraining order could be next....

Yeah I agree.

Yeah, think of the kids (US) ...  It's like Dad saying mom's a slut.

Nice one.  Maybe the marriage analogy can be fun

[johncal]

It's really a shame what Portnoy posted.   I mean calling out DT for plagiarism is slanderous.  I get the feeling that Portnoy wants to be back in DT really really bad, but he can't so he's just going to be taking shots to them here or there.

Well, the way you get back with an estrainged wife doesn't include beating her up. Id say the "divorce" here has been more than finalized. It looks like a restraining order could be next....

Yeah I agree.

Yeah, think of the kids (US) ...  It's like Dad saying mom's a slut.

Nice one.  Maybe the marriage analogy can be fun

Turnaround IS fair play.

[ResultsMayVary]

It's really a shame what Portnoy posted.   I mean calling out DT for plagiarism is slanderous.  I get the feeling that Portnoy wants to be back in DT really really bad, but he can't so he's just going to be taking shots to them here or there.

Well, the way you get back with an estrainged wife doesn't include beating her up. Id say the "divorce" here has been more than finalized. It looks like a restraining order could be next....

Yeah I agree.

Yeah, think of the kids (US)    Portnoy's just being a dick to us fans. It's like Dad saying mom's a slut.

Especially when the "mother" is someone who has done nothing out of line.

Wait. On another note, can we keep the family analogies and divorce analogies out of this, too? I certainly don't want to see anymore making those analogies after it's been done a million times already.

[champbassist]

You want plagiarism? I'll give you plagiarism.

Compare this (released in '95):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr1AfObw5fI

with The Ytse Jam (you can hear it in the first few seconds itself).

This is plagiarism. Not BMU, BMD.

[Chino]

Thats so weird. When I heard BMUBMD for the first time, Red was the first (and only band) I kept hearing in my head while it was playing, but it wasn't this song.

[7StringedBeast]

The only part I think is actually close to the DT song is 58 seconds into the Red song.  That's the only real similarity I hear.  The other stuff is kinda similar but not really. 

Also in before Louie Louie/Wild Thing/Twist and Shout

[Chino]

I started a Red thread here at one point, can't seem to find it though. They really aren't like DT at all, but totally kick ass for being a Christian rock band. I have seen them twice, they put on a hell of a show.

[Mladen]

Also in before Louie Louie/Wild Thing/Twist and Shout

Twist and shout sounds nothing like Louie Louie and Wild thing. 

[robwebster]

This ADTOE / IAW thing keeps getting resurrected from the dead like Frankenstein. How about just letting it die? It's not even part of this threads topic. Just a distraction.

NOBODY is going to "convince" anybody to change their minds or believe them. Why waste your fingers...... like I just did.

Because, it's all a conspiracy - man. The Illuminati, cabal of Zionist bankers, New World order...look it up bro

Or, check out A Rite of Passage for the handy-dandy theme park version. The clues were there! It's a confession! BREAK THEIR LEGS!

[Zydar]

robwebster! Great to see you 

[robwebster]

robwebster! Great to see you 

Thanks, you too! These absences would be a lot easier if Mike Portnoy didn't keep saying silly things, as though it's the world's second worst superpower. Then, trying to take them back, like it's the world's first worst. Still, just another day in the high-octane life of Now-wait-a-minute Man! The world's bitterest superhero.

Well, Robin notwithstanding. Do sidekicks count as superheroes?

[Hprog]

Back in my home country I was playing with a band that had this modern/symphonic/Gothic/metal-with-female-vocals style. The band was funded by the keyboard player long before Evanescence was popular, yet the styles were similar. The thing is, when I first heard Forsaken, I was astonished as to how similar the bridge to one of our songs was. This song was written by the keyboard player several years before he first heard Evanescence, and he's no Dream Theater fan at all, yet the coincidence is there. I used to joke with my friends telling them that we became so popular that even Dream Theater copied us 

My point is, Dream Theater made back then a song trying to recreate the Evanescence style. Evanescence wasn't inventing anything either, and certainly so wasn't my old band, but all in all there was A STYLE, a VIBE, and when you write music in a certain style and with a certain vibe, coincidences do happen.

Dream Theater had been widely known by recreating styles and vibes they feel influenced from at the moment, being metal, prog, nu metal or whatever, and that is something Portnoy was widely responsible for. So what I see here now is that DT have a song, BMUBMD, that goes in the same style and vibe of a Red song, but also of countless nu metal songs!!! Whether that is good or bad is up to everyone to judge, but it's certainly not a new thing for DT to do, and that's why I think Portnoy is acting totally immature and just points finger to discredit his former band.

[GunsOfThePatriots]

Great Similarities out There . Almost Copy/Paste . Those who say the contrary are just lying to themselves

I hope that this is the only song

No, those who say contrary actually understand music, and realize that there is zero musical similarity. It may have a similar vibe and structural similarities, but musically they're almost nothing alike.

Sorry, but I'm not letting MP's underhanded accusations become anything more than the bitter empty words that they are, and he's already given this more attention that it deserves.

I hate the whole lyrical quote thing, but hey it seems entirely appropriate here.

"Hypocrite
How could you be so cruel
and expect my faith in return?"

lol on the quote

i think i m gonna switch to listening to Metallica Back again . as DT was really something special . now it is not anymore

what Metallica did on their 30th anniversary is Pure Class Act (the True Class act IMO) Maybe DT and MP should take example.

[tjanuranus]

What has DT done to lose class? Unless you are trolling in which case so be it.

[johncal]

I started a Red thread here at one point, can't seem to find it though. They really aren't like DT at all, but totally kick ass for being a Christian rock band. I have seen them twice, they put on a hell of a show.

You mean a heavenly show!

[Hprog]

i think i m gonna switch to listening to Metallica Back again . as DT was really something special . now it is not anymore

what Metallica did on their 30th anniversary is Pure Class Act (the True Class act IMO) Maybe DT and MP should take example.

Have fun with Lulu, really something "special".

[AngelBack]

robwebster! Great to see you 

Thanks, you too! These absences would be a lot easier if Mike Portnoy didn't keep saying silly things, as though it's the world's second worst superpower. Then, trying to take them back, like it's the world's first worst. Still, just another day in the high-octane life of Now-wait-a-minute Man! The world's bitterest superhero.[/b][/color]Well, Robin notwithstanding. Do sidekicks count as superheroes?

Pure gold !

[guitarmanchu]

Hey, I'm one of the biggest Petrucci fans out there, but I do think he sometimes crosses the line between inspiration and plagiarism.  This isn't the first time this has happened.  There's the Priest / ITPOE debacle from a while back, then after JP toured with Satriani in G3, there were some eerily similar riffs popping up in DT songs:

Check out the rhythm in 0:15 in Satriani's New Last Jam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q-KL1zoWe0

Sound familiar?  Check out the rhythm in 2:40 of A Nightmare to Remember
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOW28D27ybM

Or check out the solo to Constant Motion and compare it to Satriani's "War"

....and then there's the whole ADTOE / IAW thing.

I don't Petrucci is looking to plagiarize directly, but you can see why people are starting to question it....  and this is coming from a Petrucci fanboy.

In your Satriani example Petrucci didn't cross the line at all. Sorry but I think that was a bad example.

Are you kidding?  Listen to the RHYTHM, not the lead.  If you transcribed the notes and superimposed them over one another, there would be very few differences.

[chwik]

Hey, I'm one of the biggest Petrucci fans out there, but I do think he sometimes crosses the line between inspiration and plagiarism.  This isn't the first time this has happened.  There's the Priest / ITPOE debacle from a while back, then after JP toured with Satriani in G3, there were some eerily similar riffs popping up in DT songs:

Check out the rhythm in 0:15 in Satriani's New Last Jam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q-KL1zoWe0

Sound familiar?  Check out the rhythm in 2:40 of A Nightmare to Remember
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOW28D27ybM

Or check out the solo to Constant Motion and compare it to Satriani's "War"

....and then there's the whole ADTOE / IAW thing.

I don't Petrucci is looking to plagiarize directly, but you can see why people are starting to question it....  and this is coming from a Petrucci fanboy.

In your Satriani example Petrucci didn't cross the line at all. Sorry but I think that was a bad example.

Are you kidding?  Listen to the RHYTHM, not the lead.  If you transcribed the notes and superimposed them over one another, there would be very few differences.

No I am not kidding.

[7StringedBeast]

Also in before Louie Louie/Wild Thing/Twist and Shout

Twist and shout sounds nothing like Louie Louie and Wild thing. 

Oh yeah you are right.  I meant twist and shout/la bamba

[theseoafs]

You want plagiarism? I'll give you plagiarism.

Compare this (released in '95):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr1AfObw5fI

with The Ytse Jam (you can hear it in the first few seconds itself).

This is plagiarism. Not BMU, BMD.

Also not plagiarism.

Same with the Satch example above.

[ResultsMayVary]

What has DT done to lose class? Unless you are trolling in which case so be it.

I'm going to take a stab at it, but I bet it has something to do with one 'Mike Mangini' being the drummer of DT and not one 'Mike Portnoy.'

[wasteland]

Not surprised to notice that MP did not include ADTOE in his 2011 top 10 CDs list. 

Even more unsurprisingly, I'm pretty sure most of his latest projects won't appear in my 2012 top 10.

[Kotowboy]

None of Portnoy's projects made my 2012 " Give a flying shit " list. 

[chrisbDTM]

JP should pull a George Lucas and green-screen Mangini in MP's place for a Budokan/Score re-release. for the lulz

[wasteland]

JP should pull a George Lucas and green-screen Mangini in MP's place for a Budokan/Score re-release. for the lulz

[Kotowboy]

HE FINALLY QUIT THE BAND ! I'M SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW !!!

[AngelBack]

"Hey James, guess what.  I hacked Syn Gates email and offerred MP a job, let's see what happens" !!

[bosk1]

Not surprised to notice that MP did not include ADTOE in his 2011 top 10 CDs list. 

Not sure if he doesn't like it, he took it out of consideration because it's too hard for him to rank it fairly, or he realizes that including it anywhere on the list would be too controversial.  Probably a combination of the three.

And as far as his own projects not being on there, I think he routinely excludes his own projects from those lists, doesn't he?  I know he's proud of his work on Neal Morse's album, but that one isn't on there.

[Rob24]

Not surprised to notice that MP did not include ADTOE in his 2011 top 10 CDs list. 

Not sure if he doesn't like it, he took it out of consideration because it's too hard for him to rank it fairly, or he realizes that including it anywhere on the list would be too controversial.  Probably a combination of the three.

And as far as his own projects not being on there, I think he routinely excludes his own projects from those lists, doesn't he?  I know he's proud of his work on Neal Morse's album, but that one isn't on there.

Usually he adds "... and of course: ..." and then lists the stuff he's involved in. That doesn't mean he's any less proud of Testimony 2 I guess, it's just a formal thing.

About ADTOE: I think it's not even a matter of him liking it or not, it's just that he'd never admit it to himself if he did like it.

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

I like Feed the Machine better, but the riffs in BMU BMD are sooooooooo much more kick ass..

[Nekov]

None of Portnoy's projects made my 2012 " Give a flying shit " list. 

I am excited for Flying Colors. Seems like it could be a really interesting album. Amob and his Sykes project on the other side don't excite me at all.

[gmillerdrake]

I am excited for Flying Colors. Seems like it could be a really interesting album.

As am I...but I've noticed lately and I don't know if there is a diagnosed 'condition' for this....but the more and more I become turned off by MP 'the person' and the way he is handling/has handled this whole ordeal....the less interested I am in his upcoming music (even the Morse related stuff) and oddly enough....even MP era DT. I've listened to a few select DT songs that I LOVE, but I used to just spin a DT album from start to finish and other than ADTOE.....I haven't done that with a DT album in quite some time.

[GunsOfThePatriots]

i think i m gonna switch to listening to Metallica Back again . as DT was really something special . now it is not anymore

what Metallica did on their 30th anniversary is Pure Class Act (the True Class act IMO) Maybe DT and MP should take example.

Have fun with Lulu, really something "special".

at least they don't copy

[ehra]

That's funny, because For Whom The Bell Tolls has a riff that's about as similar to Black Sabbath's Fairies Wear Boots' ending riff as the intros of these two songs.