The Haken thread v. Restoration

[Zydar]

Yesterday I was obsessed with Atlas Stone. Tonight it's Somebody. GAAAH!

[Heretic]

current ranking:

Because It's There
Cockroach King
Pareidolia
Falling Back to Earth
Atlas Stone
Somebody
As Death Embraces
The Path
In Memoriam

also, reviewed this over at Sputnik, lemme know what you think: https://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/58750/Haken-The-Mountain/

[senecadawg2]

Nice review! You really nailed it on the head, in regards to Cockroach King. It does create a unique world, both through its music and eccentric lyrics. It's settled in as my favorite song on The Mountain, though that may change over time.

[ariich]

Some things have really struck me from seeing who the lyricists are, and from reading some of the lyrics.

Firstly, I was pleasantly surprised to see that Ray wrote the lyrics to The Path and Because It's There. He's an intelligent guy but I've never personally seen that mature and philosophical side of him, but I think he did such a great job with those lyrics, they really grab me and lift me up.

Secondly, Hen provided the lyrics to Cockroach King, which didn't surprise me at all as they are definitely the most odd and unusual which fits him perfectly. However, from reading through them and really getting a feel for what the song is about, I think they're actually damn good. Yes they are quirky and a bit weird, but they also cleverly tell a story about temptations and the consequences of giving in to them, and I think they're actually very effective.

Anyway, it's really hard to rank the songs because like Zydar I keep getting obsessed with different songs. I also love the whole album so much that it's difficult to rank anything "lo". If I had to have a go right now though, it would look something like this:

1. In Memoriam
2. Because It's There
3. Falling Back to Earth
4. Pareidolia
5. Cockroach King
6. Atlas Stone
7. The Path
8. Somebody
9. As Death Embraces

[me7]

also, reviewed this over at Sputnik, lemme know what you think: https://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/58750/Haken-The-Mountain/

Well written review.
I see you gave it 4,5/5. Do you have something to criticise that prevents you from giving it a full 5, or is it out of the principle that everything can be improved?
It comes to my mind because you don't have a single negative word about the album to say but still deduce 0,5 points from the score.

[Nick]

me7, I love your avatar!

[BlackInk]

me7, I love your avatar!

[me7]

Don't love the avatar you dimwits... 'tis a treasure fit for fools. Thou shall fear and loath The Cockroach instead.

BOW IN DESPAIR TO YOUR COCKROACH OVERLORD.

[ariich]

also, reviewed this over at Sputnik, lemme know what you think: https://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/58750/Haken-The-Mountain/

Well written review.
I see you gave it 4,5/5. Do you have something to criticise that prevents you from giving it a full 5, or is it out of the principle that everything can be improved?
It comes to my mind because you don't have a single negative word about the album to say but still deduce 0,5 points from the score.

If you read his comment at the bottom, his own personal rating is 5 stars, but he gave it 4.5 because that's what he thinks the average score of other listeners deserves to be.

Personally I do find that a strange way to rate something, as I would always rate something based on how much I like it myself, but that may be how Adam likes to do things, or it may be the general approach on Sputnik.

EDIT: Oh and yes, brilliant avatar.

[Outcrier]

also, reviewed this over at Sputnik, lemme know what you think: https://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/58750/Haken-The-Mountain/

Well written review.
I see you gave it 4,5/5. Do you have something to criticise that prevents you from giving it a full 5, or is it out of the principle that everything can be improved?
It comes to my mind because you don't have a single negative word about the album to say but still deduce 0,5 points from the score.

So The Mountain is good as Close To The Edge, Selling England, Thick as Brick, Tago Mago, Mirage, ITCOTCK, Aqualung, Moving Pictures and so many other classics?

[ariich]

Personally I would say it is better than every one of those albums. The only one that is very nearly as good is ITCOTCK.

[me7]

Never listened to Thick as a Brick, Tago Mago, Mirage & Aqualung, but I consider it as good or better than Close To The Edge, Selling England, ITCOTCK, & Moving Pictures.
Close To The Edge & Moving Pictures aren't even my favourite albums from their respective bands.

[Outcrier]

Personally I would say it is better than every one of those albums. The only one that is very nearly as good is ITCOTCK.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Because older albums must be better.

[ariich]

Personally I would say it is better than every one of those albums. The only one that is very nearly as good is ITCOTCK.

What was that for? Because my opinion is different to yours?

[me7]

It could be that we are confusing "good" with "influential" and "inventive".

As far as "good" in concerned, Haken don't need to hide from anyone. Cockroach King sounds a lot like Gentle Giant? True, but you know what? I think it's a better GG song than GG themselves ever made.
Visions sounds a lot like a DT album? I agree, but I consider it the best DT album since SDOIT.

I also think that Haken stepped up on the "inventiveness" with The Mountain.

[Nekov]

What the hell Rich? Wrong thread

My Ranking

1. Atlas Stone
2. Pareidolia
3. In Memoriam
4. Because it's there
5. Falling Back to Earth
6. The Path
7. As Death Embraces
8. Somebody
9. Cockroach King

[King Postwhore]

Crazy talk ya'll.


(I need to buy it this weekend)

[ColdFireYYZ]

I definitely need to check this out, but I doubt I'll like it as much as the classic albums mentioned a few posts up.

[Orthogonal]

I'm one to generally be critical of the crazy ragtime and quirky "carnival" sections in prog music, but in the case of the Cockroach King, I think it works very well and ends up being a great song. I don't know exactly why, but I think it's because the whole song is quirky and doesn't take itself too seriously. It's so different than anything else on the album, it stands on its own without taking anything away. (Kind of reminds me of Mastodon's Creature Lives in how it is stands out as being so bizzarre but cool). It's when one of those quirky sections interrupts the flow of an otherwise more serious our grooving songs that bothers me.

[ColdFireYYZ]

So I just found out that the album is on Spotify even though it hasn't been released in the US yet! Just started listening...

[Outcrier]

Because older albums must be better.

It could be that we are confusing "good" with "influential" and "inventive".

Look, i will try to explain...
About "because older albums must be better", this is bullsh*t... there was many classic releases in every decade so far and obviously these albums i mentioned aren't just better because they're older, jesus christ...
They are influential for prog bands even today (Haken wouldn't even exist).
They are albums that break through the PROG realm... "Holy sh*t, what this guy is talking about?"
It means that, even if they are Symphonic, Prog or Kraut rock, you don't have to like these genres to enjoy them because it's just great music...
Like, for me, IAW is the best DT release because it's the one who even people who hate DT or prog metal in general can greatly enjoy.
Summarizing, when i say one album is better than other, i'm not just talking about the enjoyment (in the case of DT, i think IAW it's the best even though i enjoy SDOIT and SFAM much more).

[Mosh]

That's silly. I don't care which one which one is more influential, my favorite is going to be the one I enjoy the most.

And besides, even if Haken wouldn't exist without those older albums, they take it to the next level anyway. It's not like their influences end at those old prog bands anyway. By that logic we might as well say that Stravinsky is the greatest artist of all time and anyone who came after is inferior.

[Lucidity]

I don't see how anyone couldn't love Cockroach King.

[ColdFireYYZ]

Gave the album one listen, and I was pretty impressed. To be honest, even though I loved them when I first started listening to them, I got kind of bored with Haken and almost didn't bother with this release. Well, I'm glad I decided to give it a chance! I doubt I'll ever consider it a masterpiece but I really loved it and will definitely buy it. As a huge Gentle Giant fan, I loved Cockroach King and it was easily my favorite of the album upon first listen. It wasn't as batshit crazy as I expected it to be, it was still quite quirky! Also, the vocals sounded much better on this release than on their other two albums and they fit the music perfectly.

[pogoowner]

I had pretty much lost interest in Haken after Visions, which was a big disappointment for me, but The Mountain seems miles better, at least after one listen. I didn't really care for "Pareidolia," which was much too "prog metal by numbers" for me, but the rest of the album, especially up until that point, was pretty strong, and they definitely tried some new things.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Pareidolia was prog metal by the numbers? I mean, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that just never came to my mind.

Or, possibly I just listen to so much generic prog, that anything slightly outside of that seems extremely creative.

[Mosh]

I could probably agree with that, it's pretty standard prog fare. Awesome song though.

[Heretic]

Thanks for the compliments guys. As for the rating, I think it's certainly a 5/5 album, but rating something a classic on Sputnik after a week or so is usually seen as pretty outrageous since classic albums need to remain classics for the rating to stand. So, if I feel the album is perfect months down the line, I'll probably edit the review.

Also, Pareidolia is sort of typical prog, but it's done fantastically and has a few twists and turns that are lovely.

I think I'm addicted to this album though, guys. I wake up with its melodies playing in my head in the morning.

[Jaq]

Saying that Haken has made ANY album-even Aquarius, which I love-that is better than the murderer's row of albums that were mentioned in this thread from other prog bands might be the single biggest bit of hyperbole I've read since the Terrrorizer review that said an album by death metal band Mithras was the greatest album produced in the history of music from the UK.  Seriously, guys, lighten up a bit. Even Haken would find that notion silly.

[pain of occupation]

...I think I'm addicted to this album though, guys. I wake up with its melodies playing in my head in the morning.

same. but is it cheating if i fall asleep to it playing on headphones?

[ariich]

Pareidolia was prog metal by the numbers? I mean, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that just never came to my mind.

Or, possibly I just listen to so much generic prog, that anything slightly outside of that seems extremely creative.

I'm with you on that. I mean, it's an 11 minute song with no solo, with long brooding sections, and with a bouzouki-led isntrumental. I don't see what's so by-the-numbers about it.

I think I'm addicted to this album though, guys. I wake up with its melodies playing in my head in the morning.

Yep same here, me and my brother were saying last night how we've both been listening to it obsessively. Heard it maybe 15-20 times already, which is just ridiculous. I haven't been this obsessed with a new album in literally years.

Saying that Haken has made ANY album-even Aquarius, which I love-that is better than the murderer's row of albums that were mentioned in this thread from other prog bands might be the single biggest bit of hyperbole I've read since the Terrrorizer review that said an album by death metal band Mithras was the greatest album produced in the history of music from the UK.  Seriously, guys, lighten up a bit. Even Haken would find that notion silly.

Why is it ridiculous? It's an opinion. Personally I find it completely absurd to say about any albums that they are clearly the all-time classics and that nobody should be able to rank something else above them.

Those old classic albums are good. One of them I really love. I would rate ITCOTCK more highly than Aquarius, but that's it. Visions and The Mountain in particular are such great albums for me.

[Moor]

If I was Haken, I would not accept releasing Atlas Stone and Pareidolia before the album comes out, because honestly I cannot hide that such early releases affected my listening experience of the album as a whole. IMO only one song should have been released which is In Memoriam.

[ariich]

Why that song? I mean, it's my favourite on the album, but personally I think Atlas Stone was the perfect early song to release because it's the most typical-Haken thing on the album. And the good thing about Pareidolia was that it was a little bit different for them, and so managed expectations over the darker and more raw direction.

[me7]

I agree that Atlas Stone is the perfect single for the album. It's very self-contained, summarizes Haken very well by showing different sides, has a very memorable chorus (one of Haken's typical strong points) and several short solos which are thrilling but never drag on for more than a few seconds.
The song is very proggy but doesn't require any "burning in" to fully appreciate it like many prog epics do. I very much "got" the song on my first go.