Author Topic: The Haken thread v. Restoration  (Read 418567 times)

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Offline YtseJamittaja

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1610 on: August 27, 2013, 12:54:47 PM »
Finally got to hear this today!! My first reactions:

-Standout songs: In Memoriam, Pareidolia and Because It's There.
-Really nice songs: Falling Back To Earth, Atlas Stone
-Really don't know yet: Cockroach King

-Others are quite meh in my opinion


Anyone else getting a BTBAM vibe from Falling Back To Earth? Not so much in the verses and choruses, but especially the instrumental and then most of the second half of the song.

Don't know about that but I get a really strong Steven Wilson feeling from the 7mins onwards.
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Offline me7

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1611 on: August 27, 2013, 01:08:53 PM »
I love the album. It's too early to rank it with the other two after three listens, but it's definitely in the same league.

Some of the reactions here aren't all that surprising when you consider that this is a "Dream Theater fan forum". A lot of people here probably love them because they imitated DT so well (and even surpassed many DT albums) with Visions. The Mountain is the opposite to Visions, dialing back on the Metal and pushing the quirkiness to the foreground.

For me, this is one of those albums that defies expectations but still gives you everything you wanted, just in an unexpected way. In other words: prog at its best. Special praise goes to Ross and his improved vocals.
I'm not entirely convinced that going mellower is necessary to be quirky. I think think that all those vocal harmonies and jazzy moments could have been nested in more Metal. Just the idea of a song that starts like "Because it's there" and gradually evolves into Death Metal makes me excited. Maybe I'm just too fixated on this specific album right now and want it to be everything. Looking back, as they release more albums, this will probably stand the test of time because of it's unique, mellow atmosphere.

Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1612 on: August 27, 2013, 01:43:33 PM »
As glowing as my review was, it took several listens to get to that point.  It takes time because to digest because it is pretty different from their previous albums.
     

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1613 on: August 27, 2013, 01:56:22 PM »
I'd also say it's more intense as well, which makes it less immediately accessible.

me7, I'm surprised you think it's less metal. I would say this album has far more properly heavy sections than either of their previous two albums.

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Offline me7

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1614 on: August 27, 2013, 02:10:11 PM »
me7, I'm surprised you think it's less metal. I would say this album has far more properly heavy sections than either of their previous two albums.
Maybe you're right. I must admit that after only three listens many songs are still somewhat blurry in my mind as the album is very intense and complex. It could be that the quirkiness and 70s vibe is predominant in my memory and makes me forget some heavier sections.

What I mean to say is that my initial impression of Visions was: OMG, this is sooo "Dream Theater" and so well executed. I love it.
My first reaction to this album was: OMG, this is sooo NOT "Dream Theater" and so well executed. I love it.

While listening to it last night, I genuinely had to smile a few times. Only few albums make me do that and my friends consider me a rather stoic person.

Offline Heretic

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1615 on: August 27, 2013, 02:12:47 PM »
Yeah I think I like this more than the other two because its less derivitave. It almost goes in the direction of Deathless and Visions (the track) throughout the album, with a new intensity and a focus on creating beautiful music.

Also, the vocals are outstanding this time around.

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1616 on: August 27, 2013, 02:35:01 PM »
What I mean to say is that my initial impression of Visions was: OMG, this is sooo "Dream Theater" and so well executed. I love it.
My first reaction to this album was: OMG, this is sooo NOT "Dream Theater" and so well executed. I love it.
Yep, I totally get you on that, and I agree.

Not that I ever really thought they were that much like DT, they have a very different tonal and harmonic approach to their music. But I think Aquarius and Visions were a bit more DT-like in terms of structure and instrumentation.

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Offline BlackInk

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1617 on: August 27, 2013, 04:39:31 PM »
The solo section of Insomnia is when they sound the most like DT. It's crazy similar. Other than that I agree ariich, the "different tonal and harmonic approach" definetely seperates them from Dream Theater's music.

Offline Elite

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1618 on: August 27, 2013, 05:22:09 PM »
Keep in mind that what I said was based on just one and two listens of the full album respectively. I'll be listening to this album A LOT over the coming weeks, so I do expect (and hope) those initial views to change.
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Offline ElliottTamer

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1619 on: August 28, 2013, 10:48:40 AM »
Hmm, could anyone explain what exactly is meant by "Haken sounds like DT"? I mean, DT is probably my favourite band and Haken is quite possibly my second favourite band right now, so I guess they must be somewhat similar XD But I couldn't really put my finger on it and say how they sound alike, other than by being progressive metal bands.

Anyway, The Mountain has pretty much floored me. I've always had trouble ranking Aquarius and Visions (usually whichever I listened last to would be on top...), but I can confidently say that I prefer The Mountain. While it felt somewhat less consistent at first, with each listen I find more and more musical and thematic connections (the last one I found was the "I wish I was somebody" line close to the end of Because It's There).Oh, and as some people have already mentioned, Ross' singing has improved quite a lot. I came away seriously impressed by the variety and quality of his singing.

I guess this is probably a polemic issue, but I would go as far as saying that Aquarius+Visions+TheMountain > WDaDU+Images and Words+Awake. Though then again, that's probably because WDaDU is my least favourite DT album and I'm not the biggest fan of Awake (which basically leaves I&W to face off against three albums alone...).

Offline senecadawg2

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1620 on: August 28, 2013, 10:59:39 AM »
WDADU<Visions<Aquarius<<Awake<I&W

Not sure where The Mountain fits in, it's way too early to say.
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Offline me7

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1621 on: August 28, 2013, 12:05:35 PM »
Hmm, could anyone explain what exactly is meant by "Haken sounds like DT"? I mean, DT is probably my favourite band and Haken is quite possibly my second favourite band right now, so I guess they must be somewhat similar XD But I couldn't really put my finger on it and say how they sound alike, other than by being progressive metal bands.

You misunderstood. There is a widespread opinion that that album Visions sounds like DT, not Haken in general. Aquarius and The Mountain don't sound like DT at all, but Visions has less eccentric moments and more guitar driven songs that make it similar to DT.
I remember a post in this thread when someone called Visions "the best DT album since SDOIT" and a review that said how Visions is "Progressive Metal with a capital P and a capital M" in contrast to the 70s Prog inspired sound of Aquarius. I agree with both.

Offline BlackInk

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1622 on: August 28, 2013, 12:22:00 PM »
Aquarius+Visions+TheMountain > WDaDU+Images and Words+Awake.

Absolutely. That is so true it's not even funny.

Offline Moor

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1623 on: August 28, 2013, 12:28:54 PM »
The Mountain is a melting pot where PoS, BTBAM, Gentle Giant, Neal Morse and Muse were blended all together! For me it is the album of the year so far! The exact role given to this album is: "please entertain DT fans during the month of September until DT12 is released, otherwise they will never stop the Metropolis part 3 debate" :biggrin:

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1624 on: August 28, 2013, 12:31:09 PM »
The Mountain is a melting pot where PoS, BTBAM, Gentle Giant, Neal Morse and Muse were blended all together!
This is quite a good description. :lol

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Offline Moor

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1625 on: August 28, 2013, 12:32:41 PM »
The Mountain is a melting pot where PoS, BTBAM, Gentle Giant, Neal Morse and Muse were blended all together!
This is quite a good description. :lol

Please feel free to add the ingredient you find appropriate  :biggrin:

Offline BlackInk

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1626 on: August 28, 2013, 12:34:48 PM »
Like I said in my initial post about the album, I'd throw Beardfish and Karmakanic into the mix as well.

Offline Moor

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1627 on: August 28, 2013, 12:37:05 PM »
Like I said in my initial post about the album, I'd throw Beardfish and Karmakanic into the mix as well.
Totally agree for Beardfish ! As for Karmakanic, I need to start with google  :blush

Offline Nick

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1628 on: August 28, 2013, 12:37:35 PM »
Well, that, and Who's the Boss in the Factory?
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Offline emblempride

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1629 on: August 28, 2013, 12:56:30 PM »
Gotta say that I found this to be their best to date, and that was on the first listen. I personally don't feel like they're sacrificing anything melodically, in fact, I think they're one of the few prog bands that are successful at writing quirky stuff and fantastic lines while balancing them out. One of the things I love about DT and melody, was that just about every song has one or two melodies that feel as if... You had always had that melody like, laying dormant somewhere in your brain, like the 2nd riff in Erotomania or the line that drives the solo section in Constant Motion (or since we're talking Haken, the riff that comes after the Streams reprise in Celestial Elixir), and then when you hear it, it's like the intervals arranged themselves and it catches you. Every time I played DT with one of my friends, he would always claim to have recognized a section from something else and accuse them of stealing it. I've always felt like Haken was one of those bands that consistently writes melodies like that, the quality of which is so great that it makes you think, "Wow, how has this not been in another song yet?". So when they release an album that meshes both of my favorite components of theirs throughout the entire album, how can I not fall in love with it?

Ross's voice seems to have improved a LOT, and he had already improved a lot going from Aquarius to Visions. Honestly speaking, his high notes used to irk me for some reason, but his falsetto is one of my favorite things from the album. Already excited for what he'll be doing on the 4th album (hoping there are more harmonies as well)!

One thing that I noted was that, though it's definitely more out there, has really complex synchronization, and contains a lot of creative and unexpected additives, it felt less uber-technical. There's still a crazy amount of interesting stuff going on, there aren't any arthritic instrumental sections that go on for too long or are there for the sake of being there/showing off. No song goes on for too long (or so I believe), and despite the crazy stuff, there's nothing on there that you feel like you'll have to explain away in the case of a shitty colleague (well, maybe Cockroach King, not many people will expect something so Elfman-esque to mesh with jazz and metal).

Also, would like to say that Ray Hearne is phenomenal throughout the album.

So yeah, really loving it. Atlas Stone, Falling Back to Earth, Because It's There, and In Memoriam are all top tier, and CK rules!  :metal
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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1630 on: August 29, 2013, 03:23:46 AM »
For the first time in ages I just listened to what is pretty much Haken's first ever song.

It was called The Guyver, and it was before they'd got Ross on board to do vocals, so it's just an instrumental track. It was also before Ray joined on drums, can't remember the name of the guy they had at the time. Obviously it was before the demo, so it had Pete and Matt on keys and guitar, rather than Diego and Charlie, but I think Tom had joined by that point, so from the full Haken lineup as we know it, it was only him and Hen on that track. It's possible it was even pre-Tom, and that Hen played bass.

It's actually surprisingly fun, now that I listen back to it. Some of Haken's influences are incredibly obvious on it so it sounds a bit derivative (DT, among others) and the production is pretty poor, but it's quite enjoyable.

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Offline Elite

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1631 on: August 29, 2013, 06:15:15 AM »
^Sounds interesting. Is it available anywhere?

--

I'm liking Cockroach King more and more with each listen. I'm still unsure what to truly think of it and I'm not really a fan of the vocal parts yet, but the song definitely has some great moments I initially overlooked. I realise I was very harsh with my first statement, but since that really was what I thought upon first listen, I just wrote that down. It's really interesting to me that the band that made two albums I fell in love with on first listen (Aquarius, around the release and Visions at a pre-listening session) has managed to create an album that has to grow. That's actually pretty awesome and I'll be listening to it a lot.
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Offline ElliottTamer

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1632 on: August 29, 2013, 06:37:43 AM »
It's really interesting to me that the band that made two albums I fell in love with on first listen (Aquarius, around the release and Visions at a pre-listening session) has managed to create an album that has to grow. That's actually pretty awesome and I'll be listening to it a lot.

It's really interesting that this is your experience, because it's been the opposite for me! Both Aquarius and Visions took some listens for me to really dig them, but I loved most of The Mountain on my first listen (exceptions: In Memoriam and Falling Back to Earth).

Offline BlackInk

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1633 on: August 29, 2013, 07:52:40 AM »
I pretty much exactly as Elite on this one. Aquarius and Visions, loved the first time. The Mountain will have to grow for a while.

Offline Zydar

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1634 on: August 29, 2013, 07:54:07 AM »
That's how it is for me with every new album, regardless of artist or genre. Can't think of any album I've instantly loved at first listen.
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Offline me7

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1635 on: August 29, 2013, 08:02:49 AM »
With "simple" mainstream music I often manage to grasp an album on my first listen and to form an opinion that sticks. With prog however, I consider three listens a minimum before I voice my opinion on it. The Mountain wasn't hard to get into since I love Haken's style so much. Aquarius was different, on my first listen I was just overwhelmed and didn't know what to think, just as with Images and Words back when I discovered DT.

Offline Woodworker1

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1636 on: August 29, 2013, 08:51:13 AM »
Can anyone reccomend a good website to buy this CD from?  I normally buy from Amazon, but they list this CD as available on Sept 17th.  I don't want to wait that long.

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1637 on: August 29, 2013, 09:03:37 AM »
^Sounds interesting. Is it available anywhere?
I doubt it. A quick google search only reveals a post in 2006 on ultimatemetal where Hen linked to Haken's myspace, which had it up at the time. Pretty sure it won't have it now.

I wonder if Hen would be ok with me sharing it. I'll ask him if I see him anytime soon!

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Offline BlackInk

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1638 on: August 29, 2013, 01:55:17 PM »
I think some of Ross' pronounciations of the letter "T" on this album makes it sound like he has the accent the singer in Sky Architect has..

Offline Mindflux

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1639 on: August 29, 2013, 01:57:39 PM »
Can anyone reccomend a good website to buy this CD from?  I normally buy from Amazon, but they list this CD as available on Sept 17th.  I don't want to wait that long.

Best buy says 9/17 too. Isn't that the US street date?

Offline Elite

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1640 on: August 29, 2013, 02:22:27 PM »
I think some of Ross' pronounciations of the letter "T" on this album makes it sound like he has the accent the singer in Sky Architect has..

Sky Architect is Dutch, hence he has a distinct accent.
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Offline BlackInk

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1641 on: August 29, 2013, 02:29:07 PM »
I think some of Ross' pronounciations of the letter "T" on this album makes it sound like he has the accent the singer in Sky Architect has..

Sky Architect is Dutch, hence he has a distinct accent.

Yes, that's what I think Ross sounds like when he says some of the words on the album.

Offline Liampie

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1642 on: August 29, 2013, 05:33:23 PM »
It sounds fine to me, but I'm Dutch so what do I know.  :lol

Offline Zydar

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1643 on: August 30, 2013, 05:05:07 AM »
Zydar is my new hero.  I just laughed so hard I nearly shat.

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Re: The Haken thread v. The Mountain
« Reply #1644 on: August 30, 2013, 05:20:52 AM »
After feeling like I've almost only been mentioning the things I'm a bit unhappy with, I must express how wonderful it is to have new Haken music  :heart