DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[Dream Team]

Right. Next tour will see a chunk of DT16 songs, some old MP-era ones that have been neglected, and a couple modern faves like Breaking All Illusions, The Alien, and maybe 1 more like one of TGOM, OTBOA, or some such. I do wonder if they bring Octavarium back.

[Mladen]

If they end up performing concerts that are two hours long, I wouldn't expect more than two songs from Mangini era being featured. About twenty minutes of the Mangini era stuff, fourty minutes of new music, plus an hour of early stuff is my guess.

[MirrorMask]

I think many of us have noticed how much more mellow Portnoy has been the last few years, so I wasn't surprised at how he handled that questioning.  He made it clear, in a casual way, that being back in charge of set lists is his biggest want, but time will tell how that plays out.  As has been talked about, I think the best case scenario would be meeting in the middle and keeping a handful of spots open each night to rotate rather than doing it to the level they did from 2002-2006.  I am sure Petrucci knows that "forcing" Portnoy to adhere to their modern day "we are playing the exact same set list every night" stance would likely result in an unhappy Mikey, so I suspect there will definitely be some give and take where that is concerned.  I think the most obvious agreement would be them letting Portnoy largely be in charge of set lists again, with the understanding that songs from Mangini era need to be featured as well to some extent even it's just one or two songs a night.

Also, they should involve James more.

I remember either an interview or a snippet from a DVD with Andi Deris from Helloween, where he was discussing setlists and how they were creating them "trying to not kill the singer and not kill the drummer", being the two most demanding roles.

I know MP takes into account little details as guitar changes (putting together songs that require a specific guitar to reduce the number of guitar switches), but they should definitively ask James which songs he's most comfortable to sing, especially at the end of the show.

I still have to watch the YT video but from comments here, it looks that they reunited because they just wanted to do it, and they'll figure out the details moving forward.

[bosk1]

As far as MP learning the MM songs, I don't think that is an issue either because he is not going to try to play the parts faithfully to what MM played. He's going to play an approximation of it in his own style. Most people aren't going to care or be able to discern the very fine details of what is going on regardless. It's going to work well for some songs and be a little meh for others to the extent that a small number of fans want to hear what Mangini played.

This 100%.  Not really concerned about this aspect at all.

Even during the MM Era, once an album's proper tour was finished, JP never kept any MM songs in the set to begin with, save for BAI on the DT12 tour, and The Bigger Picture on the I&W&B tour.

Also Our New World on the I&WaB tour and Bridges in the Sky on this last tour.  Given the amount of material, I think they've done a decent job of playing most of the new songs overall.

I still have to watch the YT video but from comments here, it looks that they reunited because they just wanted to do it, and they'll figure out the details moving forward.

I think that's generally the gist of it.  But he talks about it being a gradual process over several years with several conversations (which some are ignoring) culminating in the conversation where he was officially asked back.  Which is what I think most would expect.  And, yeah, he mentioned a lot of the specifics being worked out over time in the future, which I also think most would expect.



Regarding Octavarium (which I saw mentioned), I would guess it will come back pretty soon.  If not on the next tour, soon after that.  As I mentioned, when I mentioned it to JP, he seemed very enthusiastic about it.  And I think MP would likely really want to play it too, given his love for it and its long absence from set lists.  I would be surprised if we didn't get it soon.

[TAC]

Yes Bosk, you're right about BITS. Though wasn't I&W&B an extension of the TA tour cycle?

Still, I find the number remarkably small, and I do agree that the setlists have been generally excellent and quite encompassing.

[Madman Shepherd]

I got the impression that he's not gonna advocate for MM-era songs himself but is not gonna mind playing them when they inevitably end up in the setlist. He could have said something more affirmative, but he's just being honest: putting those songs in the setlist is not going to be his specific focus and it's going to have to come from the other guys.

That makes sense. There's no reason for Mike to want to play these songs (let alone ask for it), but if the rest of the band wants to include a few in the set, he's not opposed to it either.

Well, there *is* a reason for mike to ask for those songs to be played. He's always said he's all about what the fans want and there is a huge chunk of fans that don't want that era ignored.

[bosk1]

Yes Bosk, you're right about BITS. Though wasn't I&W&B an extension of the TA tour cycle?

Yeah, I guess it was, in a sense, since it was still during that album cycle.  But IMO it was also kind of its own thing, given that (1) they had done 2 legs for TA and (2) the focus of the set was completely different.  I dunno.  I think it's fair to look at it either way.

Still, I find the number remarkably small, and I do agree that the setlists have been generally excellent and quite encompassing.

I will agree with "small," but not necessarily "remarkably." 

[crystalstars17]

I am sensing that they will meet in the middle on many things.

After watching the video, that does appear to be the case.

At the same time I do not think we are going back to full on rotating setlists because I think if JP and JR wanted to do that, we would have seen it in the last 13 years. However, I could see a compromise that includes swapping out one or two songs depending on the show.

I hope you are right.

However, the reunited DT is not going to be the 2010 DT. MP is clearly seeing his place in the band differently at this time. You can hear it in that interview.

Again, I sincerely hope so. And yes, from the interview that does look like the way it's going.

At this point, the most interesting thing about all of this is how the band dynamic and live shows will evolve.

I agree. The interview does show a certain humility that makes me think he will not be the wrecking ball that I feared who would railroad over JP and JR. It doesn't sound like he wants to override everything that exists now, which is a relief.

[TAC]

The interview does show a certain humility that makes me think he will not be the wrecking ball that I feared who would railroad over JP and JR. It doesn't sound like he wants to override everything that exists now, which is a relief.

I don't think he'd be a wrecking ball anyway, but it's easy for him to say the things he said now. As far as not discussing roles, I'm sorry. I simply don't believe that there has not been some vision discussed, even if it was extremely informally.

[Mladen]

Even during the MM Era, once an album's proper tour was finished, JP never kept any MM songs in the set to begin with, save for BAI on the DT12 tour, and The Bigger Picture on the I&W&B tour.

Also Our New World on the I&WaB tour and Bridges in the Sky on this last tour.  Given the amount of material, I think they've done a decent job of playing most of the new songs overall.

They also played Behind the veil during the 2015 summer shows.

[TAC]

Yes, I thought of that as well, though I don't count it because they were playing one song from every album on that tour, though I do give JP props for playing BTV over a song that was previously played on that album's tour.

[ReaperKK]

As far as MP learning the MM songs, I don't think that is an issue either because he is not going to try to play the parts faithfully to what MM played. He's going to play an approximation of it in his own style. Most people aren't going to care or be able to discern the very fine details of what is going on regardless. It's going to work well for some songs and be a little meh for others to the extent that a small number of fans want to hear what Mangini played.

This. MP is an amazing drummer and perhaps time has caused people to forget this. I have no doubt that MP could play the entire Mangine Era catalog.

Play MM parts faithfully to the album version? I disagree, MP is in the 1% of drummers in terms of technicality, MM is 0.1%. I'd love to be wrong though! I can think of maybe 1 or 2 two drummers who could possibly do MM, one of which just toured with DT.

[TAC]

As far as MP learning the MM songs, I don't think that is an issue either because he is not going to try to play the parts faithfully to what MM played. He's going to play an approximation of it in his own style. Most people aren't going to care or be able to discern the very fine details of what is going on regardless. It's going to work well for some songs and be a little meh for others to the extent that a small number of fans want to hear what Mangini played.

This. MP is an amazing drummer and perhaps time has caused people to forget this. I have no doubt that MP could play the entire Mangine Era catalog.

Play MM parts faithfully to the album version? I disagree, MP is in the 1% of drummers in terms of technicality, MM is 0.1%. I'd love to be wrong though! I can think of maybe 1 or 2 two drummers who could possibly do MM, one of which just toured with DT.

Stroke for stroke..no, that's not really what I'm saying.

[ReaperKK]

Sorry , I should read the quoted post first

[Dedalus]

I hope you are right and they do an equal amount but part of me suspects they are going to give us 99% MP era songs. Time will tell how this all shakes out. We are going to hear the Alien again (albeit it a very different version with a new drummer), no doubt about that.

I also think like you. MP's songs (old and new) will likely dominate setlists, unfortunetelly. Time will tell.

As far as MP learning the MM songs, I don't think that is an issue either because he is not going to try to play the parts faithfully to what MM played. He's going to play an approximation of it in his own style. Most people aren't going to care or be able to discern the very fine details of what is going on regardless. It's going to work well for some songs and be a little meh for others to the extent that a small number of fans want to hear what Mangini played.

Totally true. I think some of the songs MM recorded have their strength in the way he played them. A very emblematic case is precisely The Alien.
But MP is fully capable of adapting all of them.

[gzarruk]

There's no way MP will ever try to replicate MM's drum parts faithfully to the album version... he doesn't even do that with his own drum parts, and he says this himself. Whether he can or can't is a completely different discussion. He'll most likely make adjustments to just play the songs well without learning the drum parts note for note, just like he said he did for his fill in gigs with Fates Warning (which Mark Zonder complained about). A better example would be Atlantis pt. 1 Apocalypse 1470 BC from Derek/Planet X. Mike played that one for a full tour with PSMS but he simplified the harder parts because honestly he couldn't really nail Virgil's drumming, yet he did something simpler but good enough to carry those sections.

But yeah, there's no way they play more than a handful of MM era songs for each show, specially the first tour.

As for rotating setlists, my bet is the A-B thing they did for the ADTOE tour with maybe a little bit more liberties here and there.

[DTA]

MP has done static setlists in every single one of his bands since leaving DT and seems fine with it so I doubt it’s something he’s going to pursue that intently now that he’s back in DT (granted their catalog is much bigger and there’s a lot of lost time to make up for). I’m hoping for a few MM tracks each tour, especially the songs that were never done live, but realistically, I don’t see much beyond 1 or 2.

[gzarruk]

MP has done static setlists in every single one of his bands since leaving DT and seems fine with it so I doubt it’s something he’s going to pursue that intently now that he’s back in DT (granted their catalog is much bigger and there’s a lot of lost time to make up for). I’m hoping for a few MM tracks each tour, especially the songs that were never done live, but realistically, I don’t see much beyond 1 or 2.

That was my thinking at first too, but after watching that Q&A posted yesterday, it seems he wants to bring that back, he just isn't sure how things are going to work out with the rest of the band for now. Like he said, they'll probably meet somewhere in the middle.

[Buddyhunter1]

The band won't drop MM era songs entirely; I don't think Petrucci would allow that to happen even if Portnoy is in charge of putting the setlists together. He seems very proud of the music they've made over the past decade and I'm sure the other members are too.

I would be curious if the band asked Portnoy before the next tour "Alright, we need to play at least a couple MM era songs this tour. Which ones would you want to play the most?", which would he pick?

[Cool Chris]

I'd be pretty disappointed in the guys if they downplayed or even ignored their time with MM, especially if it is done to appease MP.

That said, with regards to the setlist, if they minimize the last 5 albums, my opinion on that will be defined by what songs they do play. If they don't play stuff from the last 5 albums in order to have time to add in something like You Or Me, that's just stupid.

[Jamesman42]

I doubt they ignore 1/3 of DT's catalog entirely, especially if there are rotating setlists.

[Dedalus]

MP has done static setlists in every single one of his bands since leaving DT and seems fine with it so I doubt it’s something he’s going to pursue that intently now that he’s back in DT (granted their catalog is much bigger and there’s a lot of lost time to make up for). I’m hoping for a few MM tracks each tour, especially the songs that were never done live, but realistically, I don’t see much beyond 1 or 2.

Rotating setlists have already reached a mystical realm in DT fandom. So much so that some guys think that DT with a fixed setlist is incredibly boring, but other prog bands with a fixed setlist are totally acceptable. 

[Setlist Scotty]

The band won't drop MM era songs entirely; I don't think Petrucci would allow that to happen even if Portnoy is in charge of putting the setlists together. He seems very proud of the music they've made over the past decade and I'm sure the other members are too.

Yeah, I'm pretty certain that there will be some MM-era songs in the set. Probably no more than 1 or 2 per show, but there will be some. I think it will be more of a situation like that of Bruce Dickinson than that of DLR or Rob Halford.
 
 

MP has done static setlists in every single one of his bands since leaving DT and seems fine with it so I doubt it’s something he’s going to pursue that intently now that he’s back in DT (granted their catalog is much bigger and there’s a lot of lost time to make up for). I’m hoping for a few MM tracks each tour, especially the songs that were never done live, but realistically, I don’t see much beyond 1 or 2.

Rotating setlists have already reached a mystical realm in DT fandom. So much so that some guys think that DT with a fixed setlist is incredibly boring, but other prog bands with a fixed setlist are totally acceptable. 

It's no exaggeration when you used to go to multiple shows on each leg of a tour because of the rotating setlists. That was the case for me and plenty of other diehard fans (although I know there are plenty of diehard fans who did not for various reasons). I doubt that as many diehard fans of these other bands went to multiple shows, and probably part of the reason they wouldn't was because of static setlists.

[MoraWintersoul]

It's a bit difficult not to see rotating setlists as something that privileges guys in upstate NY and Germany and that can totally fuck over someone like me or SwedishGoose who also mentioned he would have to fly to get to any other hypothetical next date there's something about going to a show with a slightly suboptimal static setlist but making peace with that, vs going to a show and knowing that the date before had a setlist that totally nailed your taste, which means those songs are out for your date. Sure it makes following recordings more fun, and if I still had zero chance to see them I'd say "go right ahead", but right now I live in a city that actually sees Dream Theater and I would not like to jeopardize that feeling that I'm finally getting that Dream Theater show that all of my friends are also getting

[Dedalus]

It's no exaggeration when you used to go to multiple shows on each leg of a tour because of the rotating setlists. That was the case for me and plenty of other diehard fans (although I know there are plenty of diehard fans who did not for various reasons). I doubt that as many diehard fans of these other bands went to multiple shows, and probably part of the reason they wouldn't was because of static setlists.

When I say that this subject has become mystical for the fandom, take into account that I'm from South America. There are very few fans here who are rich enough to be able to attend multiple shows. The vast majority of Dream Theater fans here have either never seen the band in concert, or have had the opportunity to see one show per tour (remembering that several tours did not come here). And yet South American fans are also obsessed with the idea of rotating setlists!

Of course, it makes perfect sense for those who attended multiple shows.
But I ask: what percentage of DT fans did this? Does it justify that this subject is so unbearably debated in the DT universe?


I get the impression that a lot of us have spent years discussing this issue because that's what DT fans do.

[gzarruk]

It's no exaggeration when you used to go to multiple shows on each leg of a tour because of the rotating setlists. That was the case for me and plenty of other diehard fans (although I know there are plenty of diehard fans who did not for various reasons). I doubt that as many diehard fans of these other bands went to multiple shows, and probably part of the reason they wouldn't was because of static setlists.

When I say that this subject has become mystical for the fandom, take into account that I'm from South America. There are very few fans here who are rich enough to be able to attend multiple shows. The vast majority of Dream Theater fans here have either never seen the band in concert, or have had the opportunity to see one show per tour (remembering that several tours did not come here). And yet South American fans are also obsessed with the idea of rotating setlists!

Of course, it makes perfect sense for those who attended multiple shows.
But I ask: what percentage of DT fans did this? Does it justify that this subject is so unbearably debated in the DT universe?


I get the impression that a lot of us have spent years discussing this issue because that's what DT fans do.

Depending on where you are, you either get a lot of DT (Argentina, Brazil, Chile) or none (basically the rest of us)  :'(

[Dedalus]

It's no exaggeration when you used to go to multiple shows on each leg of a tour because of the rotating setlists. That was the case for me and plenty of other diehard fans (although I know there are plenty of diehard fans who did not for various reasons). I doubt that as many diehard fans of these other bands went to multiple shows, and probably part of the reason they wouldn't was because of static setlists.

When I say that this subject has become mystical for the fandom, take into account that I'm from South America. There are very few fans here who are rich enough to be able to attend multiple shows. The vast majority of Dream Theater fans here have either never seen the band in concert, or have had the opportunity to see one show per tour (remembering that several tours did not come here). And yet South American fans are also obsessed with the idea of rotating setlists!

Of course, it makes perfect sense for those who attended multiple shows.
But I ask: what percentage of DT fans did this? Does it justify that this subject is so unbearably debated in the DT universe?


I get the impression that a lot of us have spent years discussing this issue because that's what DT fans do.

Depending on where you are, you either get a lot of DT (Argentina, Brazil, Chile) or none (basically the rest of us)  :'(

True. But even for these countries that are part of the concert route, most fans are unable to go. Look at the size of Brazil. The shows are in São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro and some in the south (Curitiba or Porto Alegre). Eventually Belo Horizonte.

Most of the country will also not have the opportunity to see the band. Those who have a more comfortable economic situation will have the opportunity to get on a plane and choose A SHOW to attend.

Argentina = Buenos Aires. 

And yet, I spent years of my life arguing with people here about rotating setlists. Incredible! 

[KevShmev]

I went to multiple shows on the Along for the Ride tour (to two different cities that are not my home city) despite there being no rotating set list on that tour. 

I suspect the number of people who plan multiple shows due to strictly rotating set lists is roughly around 9 (Scotty + 8 other people ).  My guess is that for many of us who want to see them return in some form, it's more a matter of having a little unpredictability for the one show we plan to see.

[devieira73]

I went to multiple shows on the Along for the Ride tour (to two different cities that are not my home city) despite there being no rotating set list on that tour. 

I suspect the number of people who plan multiple shows due to strictly rotating set lists is roughly around 9 (Scotty + 8 other people ).  My guess is that for many of us who want to see them return in some form, it's more a matter of having a little unpredictability for the one show we plan to see.

That's me and I think you are right about the real core of this matter

[Mosh]

All I’ll say is that a large part of what kept DT interesting for me the last 13 years was their dedication to new material. I understand that Portnoy has a greater connection to the music he was involved with, but I hope he understands that as fans, and particularly the dedicated fans who have continued to stick with the band, we want to see all eras of DT represented live. I also would be disappointed if JP/et al was apathetic about the Mangini era to the point of not making a point to make sure that material still gets played. It’s a whole third of their discography after all.

 I dunno, maybe a lot of it has to do with the fact that there haven’t been any discussions and Portnoy isn’t trying to speak on behalf of the group, but something about it rubs me the wrong way. When Bruce came back to Maiden, he said he would be honored to play anything from the Blaze era, and that was a period of the band that they could have easily ignored going forward and nobody would notice. It’s going to be weird if DT neglects their most recent 5 albums.

[Madman Shepherd]

It's a bit difficult not to see rotating setlists as something that privileges guys in upstate NY and Germany and that can totally fuck over someone like me or SwedishGoose who also mentioned he would have to fly to get to any other hypothetical next date there's something about going to a show with a slightly suboptimal static setlist but making peace with that, vs going to a show and knowing that the date before had a setlist that totally nailed your taste, which means those songs are out for your date.

This was me in 2019. They played A Nightmare to Remember. Blah. They played ITPOE.  YES!!!! Wait, only the first part. The second part is better. And they were playing SFAM which at this point in my life I could take or leave.

But I enjoyed the hell out of the concert. I really liked that lineup's take on ANTR. It was honestly one of my top 5 DT shows.

On a side note, they were rotating Paralyzed in and out of a few shows and I love that song. I did not get that in my city. 

[TAC]

When Bruce came back to Maiden, he said he would be honored to play anything from the Blaze era, and that was a period of the band that they could have easily ignored going forward and nobody would notice.

They've generally ignored it. Not at the beginning, but definitely since, save for the Legacy Of The Beast tour. If I'm not mistaken, not since Lord Of the Flies was played in 2004.

[OpenYourEyes311]

Rotating setlists are weird for me. I love the idea of them, but I absolutely hate not seeing songs other cities got to see. 2011 I missed Far From Heaven and I'll never see that now probably. Though, I did get Beneath the Surface and The Silent Man instead, and would be missing those. 2017, I missed Don't Look Past Me by a couple shows and it bothered me for a long time. It actually kind of ruined the show for me at the time (another reason why I hate spoilers... it takes me out of the experience if I know they're playing certain songs)... 2007, I saw five shows in a row hoping for Misunderstood. Missed on every one. They played it the next night. 2019, I went and saw a second show just to get Fall Into the Light. Otherwise I would've missed that one.

At least if older, less rare songs are being rotated in and out, I won't care as I've seen most of them at this point. But rotating two of the new songs, or two rarities... I can do without that please.

[TAC]

... 2007, I saw five shows in a row hoping for Misunderstood. Missed on every one. They played it the next night.

WOW!

[Jamesman42]

I remember hoping for no TMOLS when I saw them in the late 2000s, was bummed when it got played. I think I remember also hoping for Misunderstood.