Author Topic: 425's Roulette v5: Short break  (Read 41789 times)

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Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: All impressions now up, results :roadrunnerrecords:
« Reply #1015 on: November 21, 2022, 08:08:47 PM »
Litho, that's a lot of kiss ass going on.  ;D

I thought it was penance to assuage my conscience for subtly complaining about it in various threads and not directly to 425 or Luke.   :angel:

Online twosuitsluke

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: All impressions now up, results :roadrunnerrecords:
« Reply #1016 on: November 21, 2022, 08:46:06 PM »
Litho, that's a lot of kiss ass going on.  ;D

I thought it was penance to assuage my conscience for subtly complaining about it in various threads and not directly to 425 or Luke.   :angel:

I'm taking offence! Minus one point for complaining, one for kissing ass and one for making me agree with Tim.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: All impressions now up, results :roadrunnerrecords:
« Reply #1017 on: November 21, 2022, 09:44:57 PM »
The last offense should be -2.  But his besmirchment of the name of Sir Damian Wilson should be -4 in both roulettes. 

Offline Lethean

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: All impressions now up, results :roadrunnerrecords:
« Reply #1018 on: November 21, 2022, 10:53:32 PM »

This is such a cheating submission. Good thing I encourage cheating.

Conception?

Yeah, that one was a bit of a gimme!
:biggrin:  I did say "if it's really not banned" giving you ample opportunity to reject the submission... :)

Offline 425

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: All impressions now up, results :roadrunnerrecords:
« Reply #1019 on: November 22, 2022, 08:58:59 AM »
Did mine make you feel a strange sort of emotion that you can’t tell if you like?

Yes, it certainly did!



This is such a cheating submission. Good thing I encourage cheating.

Conception?

Yeah, that one was a bit of a gimme!
:biggrin:  I did say "if it's really not banned" giving you ample opportunity to reject the submission... :)

The thing is, I actually want people to do this! I know people think of it as "well, if you like Kamelot and Roy Khan, checking out Conception should be obvious," but I often just... won't get around to it, unless encouraged. What I'm looking for in roulettes isn't mainly "introduce me to artists I've never heard of" (although they can do that and I've found a lot of music I enjoy that way), but more "recommend specific artists to me and tell me what song(s) to start with." The fact that you'd send a band when trying to win a roulette round comes across as a much more solid endorsement than general internet chatter in favor of that band.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline 425

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: All impressions now up, results :roadrunnerrecords:
« Reply #1020 on: November 23, 2022, 12:06:44 AM »
Alright, here's the first pool of results. I'll finish up the other two Wednesday. All three pools this round had some extremely close decisions. We'll start with Pool X, which might have been the strongest pool in this really strong round. I get a sense that I might be doing something heretical with my ranking of these submissions, so I'm interested to see how y'all react...


Pool X:

kingshmegland: King’s X - Dogman / Smudge / It’s Love

Impression: What they’re doing with the vocals on these really appeals to me.

I’m a fan of vocal harmonies, so at least on the level of vocals, this submission was likely to appeal to me. And it certainly does. When you look at something like the chorus to Smudge, there’s just a nice layering of voices that works really well for me.

The instrumentation is pretty good, even if it’s not straight up my alley. There’s somewhat of a blend of genres on these songs that works pretty well. The heavy riffing is kind of jagged at times, particularly on Dogman and Smudge, which can be hit-or-miss for me, but I think it generally works. There’s a groove to a lot of it.

I like all three of these songs, but my favorite of the three is It’s Love. I like the happier mood and the somewhat less heavy sound on that one. It feels like the music gets to breathe a little bit more and the vocal melodies really get to open up. There’s also a really good long guitar solo at the end of this one. I'm into all three songs, but this is one that does the best job of selling me on the band.


romdrums: Jolly - Ava / Dust Nation Bleak / Lucky

Impression: This is pretty catchy, though not in a conventional way.

I find the sort of blend of synthpop and prog metal here interesting. This band has managed to make music that has the catchiness of pop along with some of the off-beat and unusual feel of a lot of prog. This is particularly apparent in Ava, a song that has a catchy synthy chorus along with some sections that get surprisingly heavy.

There are downsides, though. I don’t find the singer particularly appealing. At his best, he’s serviceable. This is fine when the written vocal lines are strong, as they are in Ava. But some of the vocal melodies don’t do it as much for me. This is the case in most of Dust Nation Bleak, for example. That song has its moments, but it’s a noticeable step down from Ava. I think the repeated “dust nation” line and the riffing under it is quite good, but the other vocal parts and some of the heavy riffing don’t entirely work for me. I would place Lucky in between the other two songs. Definitely has some strengths, including a pretty catchy chorus, but it’s not as delightful as Ava.


soupytwist: Fellowship - Glint / The Saint Beyond the River / Oak and Ash

Impression: I don't know quite how to explain this, but these songs sound like how it would feel to fly. Really, really liking them.

Yes, this is it.

This sort of very, very, very bright power metal has missed the mark with me before (Twilight Force wasn’t quite for me)… but these songs are a bullseye. Although they’re very symphonic, there’s still some heft to the metal parts (they could do to turn the metal up a little bit in the mix IMO, but it’s not a dealbreaker). The singer just has a very personable tone and a lot of emotion, so I can really connect with him. And the melodies are just there.

Everything about these songs just feels like it’s soaring. Whether it’s the giant vocal melodies on the choruses, the swelling string parts, or the fast guitar solos, there’s this sense of rapid and weightless motion. It really, really appeals to me.

When I first listened to this submission, I was impressed by Glint alone. I was thinking that if the other songs were anywhere close to as good, this submission would be very strong. And then The Saint Beyond the River kicked in, and it was glorious. This song is shamelessly built around a superb main chorus, but the structure absolutely works to create a sense of variety. Oak and Ash is also an impressive song, which maybe has the heaviest section of the three in its intro, which is welcome. I also like that the verse has almost a chorus-like epic feel… and then the actual chorus has a different, but also epic, feeling.

I did notice that this band is very concerned with their worthiness. “Someone tell me, am I worthy?” he asks on Oak and Ash. Well, I’ll be someone and say, yes, you’re worthy.


wolfking: Nevermore - Born / This Godless Endeavor

Impression: I can tell there are layers to this one, but elements of the sound might be just a bit too far out there for me.

Immediately, this comes across to me as really well done prog metal. There’s a lot of superb guitar work on both songs, both in terms of riffs and solos. I’m really impressed with the transitions between the many different sections on these two songs. My impression is that this is really well-put-together music.

But do I like it? In a sense, yes. I enjoy the mastery of the instrumental performances and the songwriting. There’s something thrilling about listening to something that’s put together this well. There are some good melodies (especially the chorus of Born), some great riffs and some fantastic instrumental sections. I like it insofar as I enjoy those.

But there are some roadblocks to my connecting with it on a personal level. The first is that I’m not really a fan of the vocals. The harsh style that the vocalist uses at times doesn’t really work for me. Hard to put my finger on what exactly I don’t like about it; I think I just tend not to go for the thinner, raspier sounding harshes. And his clean voice is in the category of nothing too special to me. At times he sounds too disaffected and hollow for me.

There is also… (“oh no, he’s about to say it again”) …a dark mood to this music that I don’t really connect with. I think that is partly conveyed to me by the vocal style. Hard to explain it exactly, but the singer gives off a detached or almost nihilistic persona at times that I just don’t sympathize with. I think the rest of the music complements the singer’s style, giving off a similar mood. And, while I don’t judge albums by their artwork, I think the artwork, which I find off-putting, is in keeping with the mood of the music.

I’m kind of reluctant to put it this way because you really cannot judge music by the artwork, but as I’ve been desperate to find a way to put this feeling into words for y’all, I’ll say it this way: If a bleak artwork like this one, showing a disturbed-looking child standing in front of a scene of the aftermath of death and destruction, is fitting with the music on the album, I’m probably going to find the music on that album bleak enough that it’s harder for me to connect with it. In this case, I think the artwork and the music are both well-done and go very well together. . . and I don’t like the artwork and have this mixed feeling about the music.

Again, I have to stress how impressed I am with how well done this is. That's enough to get me to a certain level of liking. But that emotional resonance that makes it a thoroughly enjoyable listening experience just hasn't been there.


Decision:

I said this was a very strong round, and this pool is no exception. I like all four of these submissions; each one has at least something about it that I find pretty interesting or impressive. But how do they line up?

Well, if you looked at all four writeups, I think it’s pretty obvious what my favorite was: Fellowship just really connected with me. Not all happy power metal does, so it wasn’t a guaranteed win, but this band’s sound just worked for me. Absolutely earned the top spot.

The remaining three are all pretty close. They all had aspects I found appealing and aspects that didn’t connect with me as much. I think last place will have to go to Jolly, by a narrow margin. I liked Ava pretty well, but I thought Dust Nation Bleak had its issues in terms of songwriting. Combine that with me not really connecting with the singer and it’s going to lose out to both Nevermore, where I thought the songwriting was really strong, and King’s X, where I really liked the vocals.

After some consideration, I’m going to give second place to King’s X. I enjoy all three King’s X songs, really like It’s Love, and could easily see myself getting into the band. I liked both Nevermore songs and am really impressed with the band, but the personal connection isn’t there. And in the end that’s something that matters a lot to me.


soupytwist/Fellowship: 4 points
kingshmegland/King’s X: 3 points
wolfking/Nevermore: 2 points
romdrums/Jolly: 1 point
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline wolfking

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1021 on: November 23, 2022, 02:57:42 AM »
Huh.  Fair enough, a tad surprised though.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1022 on: November 23, 2022, 04:26:11 AM »
Not bad, not bad. Now to come out swinging. Continue to check out King's X.  If you like bright and uplifting, check out their album Ear Candy.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1023 on: November 23, 2022, 05:07:10 AM »
425's reaction to Nevermore is pretty much what I expected, and probably why I subconsciously didn't even consider them.  Oh well, people can send stuff like that in my roulette.   :lol

I'm surprised he liked "Smudge" as much as he did, that verse used to kind of creep me out when that album came out.  I like it now, but I think my tastes were a bit closer to his back then. 

Continue to check out King's X.  If you like bright and uplifting, check out their album Ear Candy.

Despite my often preference for somewhat darker music, that is my favorite King's X album. 

Offline HOF

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1024 on: November 23, 2022, 07:25:57 AM »

Continue to check out King's X.  If you like bright and uplifting, check out their album Ear Candy.

Despite my often preference for somewhat darker music, that is my favorite King's X album.

I don’t know if I’d call Ear Candy bright and uplifting (maybe the cover!). At least not compared to the first 4 albums. I’d say Faith Hope Love would be the top contender in that regard.

Offline Lethean

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1025 on: November 23, 2022, 07:42:47 AM »
Hey 425 - when you get a chance, can you post a list of the bands that have been submitted during the roulette?  Maybe just add it to the OP?

Offline TAC

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1026 on: November 23, 2022, 09:06:41 AM »
Not a Kings X fan. At all.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1027 on: November 23, 2022, 09:26:05 AM »
Not a Kings X fan. At all.

What don't you like Tim?
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline HOF

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1028 on: November 23, 2022, 09:41:24 AM »
Not a Kings X fan. At all.

What don't you like Tim?

It’s just the TAC/HOF inverse principle at play.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1029 on: November 23, 2022, 10:01:37 AM »
Breaking Bad spinoff.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline TAC

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1030 on: November 23, 2022, 10:35:18 AM »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1031 on: November 23, 2022, 10:46:09 AM »
Try typing sentences this time. Lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1032 on: November 23, 2022, 11:53:04 AM »

Continue to check out King's X.  If you like bright and uplifting, check out their album Ear Candy.

Despite my often preference for somewhat darker music, that is my favorite King's X album.

I don’t know if I’d call Ear Candy bright and uplifting (maybe the cover!). At least not compared to the first 4 albums. I’d say Faith Hope Love would be the top contender in that regard.

Well, compared to Dogman and Please Come Home Mr. Bulbous it is.  There's a warmth and comfort to EC that isn't presently nearly as much on any of their other albums, which is partly the Marshall Ty was using on that album, the acoustics he played on it, partly the micing of Jerry's kit, partly the overall production, and the songwriting and lyrics at times. 

Offline HOF

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1033 on: November 23, 2022, 11:56:45 AM »

Continue to check out King's X.  If you like bright and uplifting, check out their album Ear Candy.

Despite my often preference for somewhat darker music, that is my favorite King's X album.

I don’t know if I’d call Ear Candy bright and uplifting (maybe the cover!). At least not compared to the first 4 albums. I’d say Faith Hope Love would be the top contender in that regard.

Well, compared to Dogman and Please Come Home Mr. Bulbous it is.  There's a warmth and comfort to EC that isn't presently nearly as much on any of their other albums, which is partly the Marshall Ty was using on that album, the acoustics he played on it, partly the micing of Jerry's kit, partly the overall production, and the songwriting and lyrics at times.

Yeah, it’s definitely more upbeat than those two albums. But there is a lot of sadness/angst/disillusion in the lyrics that is in pretty stark contrast to their earlier albums. 

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1034 on: November 23, 2022, 11:59:03 AM »
You could be right, I rarely pay attention to lyrics, so I'm mostly talking about the sonics of it.  I know there's some optimism on at least a few EC tracks, but less on others, I'd have to read through them and compare to say for sure, which I'm not especially inclined to do. 

Offline wolfking

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1035 on: November 23, 2022, 12:18:36 PM »
Not a Kings X fan. At all.

Yeah, I never understood what people like about them either.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline HOF

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1036 on: November 23, 2022, 12:34:11 PM »
Not a Kings X fan. At all.

Yeah, I never understood what people like about them either.

Hooks, harmonies, interesting tunings/chords/song structures, a good mix of heaviness and melody, killer grooves and guitar solos, things of that nature.

You could be right, I rarely pay attention to lyrics, so I'm mostly talking about the sonics of it.  I know there's some optimism on at least a few EC tracks, but less on others, I'd have to read through them and compare to say for sure, which I'm not especially inclined to do. 

Thinking specifically of songs like Thinking and Wondering, A Box, Looking for Love, Lies In The Sand, Life Going By. But those early albums did always have an element of melancholy and cynicism as well. It’s more that by Ear Candy they had stopped writing songs like It’s Love.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1037 on: November 23, 2022, 12:37:41 PM »
Not a Kings X fan. At all.

Yeah, I never understood what people like about them either.

You shame me. Lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline 425

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1038 on: November 23, 2022, 12:55:42 PM »
Not a Kings X fan. At all.

Yeah, I never understood what people like about them either.

I think there's a significant area of metal where my tastes are pretty similar to both of yours, but then you like some metal that's too extreme for me, and I like some prog rock that neither of you seem to be interested in. King's X kind of appeals to the same part of my musical taste as Spock's Beard.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1039 on: November 23, 2022, 02:18:39 PM »
Alright, what's the best Kings X album I should try?  I may or may not listen to it.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1040 on: November 23, 2022, 02:25:33 PM »
Try Faith Hope Love.

Here's one song to check out.

 https://youtu.be/Q0cEtyQjz7g
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline senecadawg2

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1041 on: November 23, 2022, 02:42:54 PM »
Kings X confuses me too. Several of my favorite musicians speak gushingly about them, but I've never been able to enjoy them.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1042 on: November 23, 2022, 02:45:18 PM »
Try Faith Hope Love.

Here's one song to check out.

 https://youtu.be/Q0cEtyQjz7g

I'll sample that tonight.

Even though I don't care for them, I do know that I own the CD called Ogre Tones.  I don't remember anything about it except thinking why I wasted my money.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline nick_z

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1043 on: November 23, 2022, 02:46:37 PM »
Alright, what's the best Kings X album I should try?  I may or may not listen to it.

I had to pick one, I'd probably go for Gretchen Goes to Nebraska.

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1044 on: November 23, 2022, 02:50:13 PM »

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1045 on: November 23, 2022, 03:03:33 PM »
Try Faith Hope Love.

Here's one song to check out.

 https://youtu.be/Q0cEtyQjz7g

I'll sample that tonight.

Even though I don't care for them, I do know that I own the CD called Ogre Tones.  I don't remember anything about it except thinking why I wasted my money.

 :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline HOF

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1046 on: November 23, 2022, 03:09:23 PM »
Try Faith Hope Love.

Here's one song to check out.

 https://youtu.be/Q0cEtyQjz7g

I'll sample that tonight.

Even though I don't care for them, I do know that I own the CD called Ogre Tones.  I don't remember anything about it except thinking why I wasted my money.

Ogre Tones is definitely not one of their stronger albums IMO. They had really slowed down in terms of creativity by that point in their career.

Alright, what's the best Kings X album I should try?  I may or may not listen to it.

I had to pick one, I'd probably go for Gretchen Goes to Nebraska.

I’d probably agree with this for anyone who is more metal oriented. Or just search for "The Atlantic Albums" on Spotify and put it on shuffle. All good stuff there.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1047 on: November 23, 2022, 03:21:01 PM »
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline LithoJazzoSphere

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1048 on: November 23, 2022, 03:30:45 PM »
Agreed, though for soloing in slower songs "Lies in the Sand" is my favorite.  I'm just thinking of stuff that might appeal more to wolfking, based on what he seems to like. 

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 425's Roulette v5: Round 4 Results 1/3!
« Reply #1049 on: November 23, 2022, 03:36:02 PM »
We won't change his mind I bet. I'm just loving all this talk over my pick. Lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC