425's Roulette v5: Short break

[TAC]

hey TAC ain't got nothing on me, so

Right. It's not like I have sent for the rounds I haven't even qualified for yet.

[425]

I'm honestly a bit surprised I don't also have two Cyril EPs sitting in my inbox.

[425]

It seems to me that at least part of the difference in sad music 425 likes vs. doesn't might be temporary mourning vs. apathetic nihilism.

I think this is getting closer, yes, although I wouldn't go so far as to put everything on the side I enjoy less in the category of "apathetic nihilism" (that's not my impression of Katatonia, for example).

[Crow]

making EPs takes dedicated effort, if i'm not making it to the top 6 i'm not gonna bother making an EP

[425]

I'm going to add results for one additional pool tonight. The other two will need to wait tomorrow. I've done writeups on what I like and don't like about all the submissions in each of those pools, but I'm having a hard time making the decisions. I'll need to listen again, but I'm too tired tonight to trust my impressions.





Pool E:


LithoJazzoSphere: Autumn - Altitude / Old Fuel

Impression: I like this singer a lot. Her performance hits all the right emotional beats.

I now fear that I’m going to send a brand new set of confusing mixed signals about my preferences in sad music by saying I really liked this submission, but… I really liked this submission. It starts with the singer, whose voice I think is just wonderful. She delivers an emotional performance that is just very well-suited to both songs.

And the songs are good. The chorus of Altitude just works so well, and the full song is a nice tapestry of guitar riffs and piano melodies. There aren’t a lot of instrumental theatrics from this band, but what is present really works. Old Fuel wasn’t as immediate for me, and is still probably my less preferred of the two, but I really like the softer side it brings out of the singer, and the way the song is structured to gradually lead into the repeating “And so it starts, the endgame” refrain, which has just stayed with me very well. I also think the guitar solo is effective.

These two songs are both really well put together and quite resonant with me emotionally. Very strong submission.


soupytwist: Seven Spires - This God Is Dead / Bury You

Impression: An everything including the kitchen sink song! I admire the ambition; subsequent listens will tell how well I like the execution…

No one cheated this round quite like Cyril, but sneaking Roy Khan in deserves a good second place on the cheat-o-meter :biggrin

Honestly, not sure Roy is moving the needle much on this one. It’s always good to hear his voice, but it’s not enough of a featured performance to be the make-or-break on This God Is Dead, let alone the whole submission.

My impression was that This God Is Dead is a kitchen-sink song, and it certainly is the most complex single composition anyone sent this round. There’s so much going on here. I mean, just vocally, we have choirs, we have clean female vocals, we have Khan, we have growls, we have spoken word, everything. Instrumentally, there’s variation enough to accompany these vocal shifts, from quiet, contemplative passages to intense heavy parts to big symphonic sections.

So how did all of it come across to me? It’s definitely one that I feel like I don’t fully have a grip on, kind of like Lost Domain’s Rise of Isolash. But my impression of it is consistently improving. I really like this sort of ambition, and there’s material that’s really promising to me, particularly in the second half, where the music definitely takes more of an epic turn. I feel like it’s working to pay off some of the buildup from early in the song.

The harsh vocal sections are on the borderline of what is going to work for me, but I think they’re on the right side of that border. Honestly, part of what makes it fringe is the fact that the music underneath those parts is not especially melodic, which I think makes them somewhat weaker than they could have been. But they work in context as short spurts of intensity.

I’ve talked a lot about one of the songs, not much about the other. Bury You kind of snuck up on me to become a song I really enjoy. There’s just a lot of big, epic melody, and that’s a good way to win me over so long as there’s some substance, which there certainly is here. The singer gets to show off a different side of her voice here, and she sounds great, especially on the last chorus.


Tomislav95: Dead Letter Circus - The Mile / Here We Divide / This is the Warning

Impression: Not much to say on first listen except that this feels like solid prog metal. It'll take time to see if it's more than that.


This band has a pretty good sound. They seem to exist in the Aussie side of prog metal, with the shiny production and melodic approach, but with a varied musical style that doesn’t really inhabit the djent territory. This is a style of music that I’m happy to listen to and likely to enjoy.

But I have to say that I’ve listened to this particular set of songs several times and not found as much to grab onto as I would hope. This is the Warning is my favorite of the three, particularly because of the climactic finale. All the songs have parts that I can point to as good when I’m listening to them, but when I’ve finished, almost all of it is gone for me.

It’s possible that this music still needs more time to open up for me, and that I’m not being fair to it by judging it on a few listens in a roulette setting. But at this point I have to conclude that while this is fairly enjoyable to listen to, it’s not something that strikes me as particularly interesting.


Pool E Decision:

I think it’s pretty clear from my writeups that Dead Letter Circus is third. I tried with these songs, and I’m willing to try more with this artist because I like their general sound, but right now there’s just not much that I’m taking away and finding I really like. When the other two submissions have a lot that I enjoy, that leads to a fairly clear decision as to third.

First and second is a tougher choice here, probably the closest call I've had to make so far. I feel like I’m still fully figuring out one of the Seven Spires songs, but I like a lot of what I hear on that one and I really like their other song. I also like both Autumn songs quite a bit. After a lot of consideration, I’ve decided to go with Autumn as a very close winner. I feel like This God Is Dead just does not quite come together as cohesively as I'd like an epic to do, and there are still sections of that song that are not as compelling for me as others. Though I like the song, and really like Bury You, there's enough of a question mark there for me to choose the two very well-composed, emotionally resonant songs from Autumn.

LithoJazzoSphere/Autumn: 3 points
soupytwist/Seven Spires: 2 points
Tomislav95/Dead Letter Circus: 1 point

[soupytwist]

Congrats Lizzo!

As you've probably worked out 'This God is Dead' is a major part of the albums concept (in fact all 3 of their albums tell they same story) so the different voices are the various characters. 

I'm going in a completely different direction with round 2. 

[Crow]

Congrats Lizzo!

[soupytwist]

Congrats Lizzo!

I Benifer'ed their name without realising. 
I apologize Litho!

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Congrats Lizzo!

Ugh, there goes the secrecy of my round two submission.  I was just about to hit send on "About Damn Time", "Grrrls", "Juice", and "Rumors (feat. Cardi B.)" for my victory lap.  That set was gonna slay. 

Anyway, I think the rules state that we're supposed to talk shit about the other submissions, but screw that, I think pool E might have been my favorite pool of entries, possibly other than F.  I've been wanting to get more into Seven Spires, and this is definitely helping.  I'd heard a couple of DLC tunes before, but haven't checked out an album.  Now I'm encouraged to do so.  I already noticed there is an acoustic version of "Here We Divide", which is awesome. 

[twosuitsluke]

I get where you're coming from Lizzo. I think I actually discovered more music l liked in the first roulette I participated in than the first one I hosted 

[soupytwist]

Congrats Lizzo!

Ugh, there goes the secrecy of my round two submission.  I was just about to hit send on "About Damn Time", "Grrrls", "Juice", and "Rumors (feat. Cardi B.)" for my victory lap.  That set was gonna slay. 

Although that may beat my second round submission to be honest!

[senecadawg2]

Awesome! I'm glad to win the round and get to know your tastes a little better in the process, although it has thrown a wrench in what I was planning on sending the next two rounds. (I was going to send you some really bleak stuff )

I'll send shortly

[twosuitsluke]

 

[Stadler]

I feel like I have zero idea what will resonate for round two (that's a me problem, though, since I don't know a good number of these bands well enough to draw conclusions).

I'm going with my gut.

[twosuitsluke]

I'm going to bed in about an hour and a half, how likely is it that results get posted before then dude? 

[425]

10% chance. I have more work to do and am not likely going to be able to turn to this for another 3ish hours.

[twosuitsluke]

No worries dude. I'll look forward to waking up to results then 

I'm feeling quietly confident. Fuck knows why!?

[425]

Pool B:

ReaperKK: Ola Englund - Balegmah / Sun and the Moon

Impression: Music of this particular type can often struggle to interest me, but these songs caught my interest right off the bat.

The "specific type of song" was instrumentals. They can be hit-or-miss with me, depending on whether I'm able to really grab onto something in the music and get into the rest of the song. These two songs achieved that, and as a result, I really enjoyed them both.

That's particularly true of Sun and the Moon, which has a strong main motif that hooks well into the other sections of the song. This one has good dynamics, with a really nice quiet section in the middle interspersed with some heavier riffing. The riffs at about the 5 and a half minute mark are my favorite part, and I love how they stay in place as other parts of the song begin to shift.

Part of what I like about these songs is that they don't feel like instrumental prog metal with a gimmick or like an attempt to spotlight a particular player's shredding ability. These feel like taking the prog metal sound, and rendering it into an instrumental context. There's a lot of emphasis on melody and riffing, solos that add to the song rather than overpowering it, and a focus on good composition. Really enjoyable stuff.


twosuitsluke: King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard - Robot Stop / Magenta Mountain / Slow Jam 1

Impression: I have no idea what to make of this at this point. Something strange yet interesting about it.

I'm surprised no one guessed this impression, because this is some weird stuff! Definitely not up my usual alley, but there's something fascinating about it all. I don't even know how to categorize something like Robot Stop. It's not a style I would normally listen to, I think the vocals are almost comically rough, but there is undeniably something really, really catchy about it.

Then Magenta Mountain is very different but similar in that it is hard to categorize, far outside the style of music I listen to, and undeniably fascinating. There's something to the pattern of the vocal melodies here that is unusual but really interesting.

Slow Jam 1 is the least interesting to me of the three. It's a solid little jam, and there's nothing off-putting about it, but it doesn't quite have the attention-grabbing quality of the others.

I should have expected this just based on what I've heard out int he world about this artist, but I was still sort of surprised by how strange this music is, and yet how interesting I find it. Not sure that this translates to me being in love with everything I hear, but they certainly have my attention.


wolfking: Angel Dust - Bleed / Cross of Hatred / Freedom Awaits

Impression: This is a comfortable sound for me, and the songs make a strong impression right off the bat.

So, I'm definitely a big fan of this overall sound: melodic, epic power metal. And these are good songs in that style. I like a lot of the vocal melodies on all three songs, especially Cross of Hatred. And I tend to enjoy mid-tempo power metal even more than the super-fast variety. There's a sense of swagger in their rhythms.

I think the main downside is that I'm not in love with the singer. These power metal singers who use a lot of grit (Russell Allen, Ripper Owens) are somewhat hit-or-miss for me. I think often they end up making the music sound too consistently aggressive and not dynamic enough. And I think that is somewhat of an issue on the first two songs. Freedom Awaits strikes a better balance in the vocal style.

This isn't a dealbreaker for me with this band, which I'm definitely interested in, but it is a downside. On the whole, though, this was a strong batch of songs that I certainly enjoy.


Pool B Decision:

This is the toughest decision of the round. I had multiple pools where it was difficult to choose between the top two or between the bottom two, but here I like all three submissions almost equally and have a hard time even choosing first or last place. I think I've given serious consideration to every possible first-second-third order. This is one of the stronger pools this round, with all the submissions having a substantial draw for me.

After an additional listen through to all three submissions, one finally emerged as the winner, by a very narrow margin: the Ola Englund submission. These songs were just such finely composed instrumental prog metal that I had to give them the edge.

Looking at the other two, we have Angel Dust, which is right up my alley musically, very well done power metal with great melodies, and King Gizzard, which is far outside my comfort zone but also quite captivating to me in some strange way. I wish I didn't have to put either of these in third, but in the end I have to give second to Angel Dust and third to King Gizzard.

As with Toto before, that's not a placement that reflects a negative assessment of the King Gizzard music. I think it's mainly the result of a few small quibbles that add up to place it slightly behind Angel Dust. First, the weak link of both these artists for me is the vocals, but the Angel Dust vocalist is singing some of the time in a way I do enjoy on all three songs, while the KG&tLW vocal performances fit the music but only elevate it on Magenta Mountain. Second, I connected pretty well with all three Angel Dust songs, while Slow Jam 1 did not connect with me as much as the other KG&tLW songs and was my least favorite out of all 8 songs in this pool. Finally, while I like the song, I don't like the production on Robot Stop, and I don't like the noisy and abrasive ending. None of these quibbles ruin my experience with KG&tLW, but when I'm really trying to split hairs, those are things that stand out to me.

No worries dude. I'll look forward to waking up to results then 

I'm feeling quietly confident. Fuck knows why!?

After this post, I feel like I'm crushing a dream a little bit here. All I can say is, if you were confident I was going to like the music, you were right. If you were confident about winning the round, well, sorry.

ReaperKK/Ola Englund: 3 points
wolfking/Angel Dust: 2 points
twosuitsluke/King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard: 1 point





Pool C:

Buddyhunter1: VOLA - Applause of a Distant Crowd / Smartfriend / Inside Your Fur

Impression: Much more sedate and melody-focused than I remembered this artist being, which is tentatively a good thing.

I've heard VOLA here and there before, and I know they're very celebrated among the prog bands to debut in the last few years, but I've never had a clear overall impression of them.

I'm definitely coming away from this with a stronger sense of what people like about them. They have a strong sense of melody that comes out at times on all three of these songs, and that's when I like them best. Applause of a Distant Crowd is just full of melody, both in the vocals and in instrumentals. Smartfriend starts out in a way that isn't especially interesting to me, but when it opens up into the big melodic vocal section and subsequent instrumental, that's quite good.

Inside Your Fur is my favorite of the three songs. It has some fairly compelling melodies and a strong chord progression that carries us through the whole thing. It's the one I connect with most on an emotional level out of the three. There's a beauty and a tenderness to these melodies that works for me.


Elite: King Crimson - Fallen Angel / Epitaph (both live in Mexico, 2017)

Impression: This is definitely the best foot forward of a band that I've had mixed feelings about. Not sure it'll be enough.

Of the biggest names in classic prog, King Crimson is the one I've never much gotten into. I've heard some of the big songs, and enjoyed some of them. But I've never gotten engrossed in anything, and found that was a little off-putting to reduce my motivation to spend more time with them.

Fallen Angel is probably my favorite song I've heard from them. Some strong vocal melodies here, and I like the saxophone. Some sense of scale and scope near the ending, too, which is nice. However, there's nothing here that connects with me on a deeper, emotional level, unfortunately.

Epitaph is a very well-done piece of music. I'm nowhere near being able to fully break it down, but it's clear to me that the whole thing is very deliberately and artfully composed. This live performance brings home some of that with how precisely some parts seem to be timed, even onstage (for example, in the chorus: "Confusion... will be my epitaph").

But yeah, Epitaph is also quite bleak. Even if I couldn't make out the lyrics, this would come across clearly in the music. It's that mood that's somewhat alienating to me and that's probably going to keep me from wanting to listen to this a whole lot. Fallen Angel, I think, is in the same direction, but not as bleak as Epitaph.


HOF: Sweet Billy Pilgrim - Kalypso / We Are the Bright Carvers

Impression: I don't quite know what to make of this one. Some good melodies, but some of the sonic elements are off-putting.

Honestly, my initial impression of these songs was a little rough. They do a fair amount of inserting weird electronic sounds into the music, which is really something I do not like and almost never think is justified.

That said, the music itself has opened up to me a fair amount. There's a strong sense of melody here and some real beauty in these songs, especially Kalypso. We Are the Bright Carvers is more focused on catchiness, and definitely delivers that.

On the other hand, I have a hard time nailing down the structure of these songs, particularly We Are the Bright Carvers and my tentative sense is that at least that one overstays its welcome a bit. A little too much repetition without quite enough variety.

It's hard to assess this mix of positives and negatives, but I guess where I am at this point is that I find some aspects of their music quite compelling, but there are also obstacles to me getting into it earnestly.


Pool C Decision:

VOLA will come away as the winner of this pool. It's not my favorite of the pool winners, but it has two of my three favorite songs of this pool in Inside Your Fur and Applause of a Distant Crowd, plus a third song that has aspects I like a lot in Smartfriend. That's going to be enough to beat out the other two.

Sweet Billy Pilgrim comes in second. I really want to be able to like these songs, Kalypso especially, more than I actually end up liking them. Kalypso is a beautiful song, and We Are the Bright Carvers has some strong elements, but the structures and especially the glitchy sounds detract from the experience. Still, that emotional connection is good enough for second place.

The King Crimson songs are obviously very well-done, and to elaborate on why they ended up in last place here I'm going to take the opportunity to explain a little more about my approach to ranking songs in this roulette. I think in past roulettes, my scores have incorporated too heavy of a dose of how impressive or well-done I think a particular song is. I think I was tempted to do that in order to seem more objective in my grading and to avoid giving a low score to music that I think is actually really well-done. This time, I'm pushing myself to be more selfish in ranking submissions, and focusing more on rewarding submissions that I personally enjoy than on rewarding those that I think are the most brilliantly written or performed. By the latter standard, I couldn't put King Crimson last in this pool; I might have to put it first. But by the former standard, it does go in last because one of the songs, Epitaph, doesn't resonate with me in a pleasing way from an emotional perspective. And that's the standard I'm trying to use here. It isn't a total disconnect: I do enjoy Fallen Angel a fair bit! But it's the band of these three that I connect with the least and remain the least interested in.

Buddyhunter1/VOLA: 3 points
HOF/Sweet Billy Pilgrim: 2 points
Elite/King Crimson: 1 point

[twosuitsluke]

No worries dude. I'll look forward to waking up to results then 

I'm feeling quietly confident. Fuck knows why!?

After this post, I feel like I'm crushing a dream a little bit here. All I can say is, if you were confident I was going to like the music, you were right. If you were confident about winning the round, well, sorry.

Hey dude, absolutely no worries. This ain't my first rodeo and I know what I'm getting myself into sending bands like King Gizz. I'd love to be able to play it safer in these things (and maybe I'll try next round) but I just want people to experience some of the great bands out there.

If I've given you enough of a glimpse into The Gizzverse to want to check out more then my job is done. They have a vast backcatalogue, but don't be intimidated. They are one of the most exciting bands out there at the moment in my opinion.

I'll send for round 2 later. Congrats to Reap and Wolfy, ya wee bastards.

Out of interest, would you be able to rank all the submissions in one list? I want to be frustrated knowing I came last in my pool but that I could've got more points in another pool 

[Crow]

my prediction for the next round: 425 likes two of them fine enough but doesn't like the third much at all. the third one happens to be my favorite of the three

[soupytwist]

Out of interest, would you be able to rank all the submissions in one list? I want to be frustrated knowing I came last in my pool but that I could've got more points in another pool 

Song of the round would be interesting to see too.

[wolfking]

When I first heard Angel Dust, I personally hated the singers voice.  Massive grower and now I love it.

[Buddyhunter1]

Hey hey, better than expected! I knew Smartfriend would be your least favorite of the three, but I figured you had to get at least one song that showcases their heavier side, and I'm glad you at least somewhat liked it! Patting myself on the back for sending Inside Your Fur - that was kind of a impulse decision that ended up paying off.

Will need to mull over what to send for this next round. I'll send something either today or tomorrow.

[Lethean]

When I first heard Angel Dust, I personally hated the singers voice.  Massive grower and now I love it.

It was kind of similar for me.  I didn't hate his voice but thought it was more of a negative than positive.  It definitely grew on me.  I wouldn't say I love it, but I think it fits perfectly for the music. 

[425]

Out of interest, would you be able to rank all the submissions in one list? I want to be frustrated knowing I came last in my pool but that I could've got more points in another pool 

Song of the round would be interesting to see too.

Yeah, I can try to put something like these things together. The overall ranking wouldn't be exact because I haven't put much thought into how they compare to each other, but I can do an approximate one. And I'll probably list a handful of top songs.

When I first heard Angel Dust, I personally hated the singers voice.  Massive grower and now I love it.

It was kind of similar for me.  I didn't hate his voice but thought it was more of a negative than positive.  It definitely grew on me.  I wouldn't say I love it, but I think it fits perfectly for the music. 

Huh, interesting that this seems to be a common reaction!

[Stadler]

I sent for round two. I might not only win my group, but I might win one or two others to boot! 

[Lonk]

Well, I was confident on what I was going to submit but forgot to check the Google list of individual banned songs. The 3 songs I had in mind to send are the only 3 songs banned from this artist  Back to the drawing board.

[romdrums]

Sent for Round Two.

[Lethean]

Well, I was confident on what I was going to submit but forgot to check the Google list of individual banned songs. The 3 songs I had in mind to send are the only 3 songs banned from this artist  Back to the drawing board.

Speaking of individually banned songs, how many Voyager songs does 425 need to be sent before they make the official banned list?

[HOF]

It's hard to assess this mix of positives and negatives, but I guess where I am at this point is that I find some aspects of their music quite compelling, but there are also obstacles to me getting into it earnestly.

I think this is a fair assessment of Sweet Billy Pilgrim, at least from what I've sent you. They do not always make the most immediate music, which is part of why I find them so rewarding. Some of the reward for me is in the details of the production (some of which was off putting for you). All those little sounds and instrumentations are really well orchestrated IMO, and sometimes you don't realize what you are hearing is a child's toy piano or something weird like that. But in terms of song structures themselves, they don't always follow an ordinary path and sometimes the hooks don't come in until mid way through the song or at the end of the song. They are an interesting group with a lot to explore though. I tried to give you one of their more direct songs with Bright Carvers, which is a little long for what it is (though it is introducing an album concept as well), but I've had it on repeat since it came out so the length doesn't bother me. Super catchy.

Sending something totally different next.

[425]

Well, I was confident on what I was going to submit but forgot to check the Google list of individual banned songs. The 3 songs I had in mind to send are the only 3 songs banned from this artist  Back to the drawing board.

Speaking of individually banned songs, how many Voyager songs does 425 need to be sent before they make the official banned list?

The rule for the banned artist list in this one is simple: Am I committed to exploring all or a large portion of this artist's work? If yes, they're banned, if not, they aren't. Voyager is one of those artists where I've heard a lot, generally liked it, but not been motivated to say "yeah, I'm going to buy several of their albums." They could be seen as a cheat in a certain sense, since it's very likely I'm going to think they're at least pretty good, but there's a risk as well since they've never blown me away.

The reason why there are so many Voyager songs on there is because I was sent two albums from them in the first round of my album roulette. I think one of them won its matchup and the other lost.

[Lethean]

What if you're sent a band that you really dislike?  Would they become banned eventually or would you leave it open until you've potentially heard their catalog?  Just curious.

[425]

I honestly hadn't considered that. Now very tempted to just ban Pain of Salvation so I don't have to hear them again.

[romdrums]

I honestly hadn't considered that. Now very tempted to just ban Pain of Salvation so I don't have to hear them again.

Probably a wise move.   

[Lethean]

I honestly hadn't considered that. Now very tempted to just ban Pain of Salvation so I don't have to hear them again.

Pain of Salvation is the very band I was thinking about using as an example, as they were certainly on my banned list for that reason.