*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[darkshade]

Yes but they are not spamming threads constantly about it, they eventually accepted it and moved on.

I'm not spamming the forum about missing MP, nor was I the one who originally posted the youtube video.
If you haven't read my comments in this thread about the new album, I mentioned how I've accepted that modern DT is what they are now, and that I felt pretty positive about AV and MM's contributions to the album so far.

[Madman Shepherd]

As someone who can't drum and doesn't care much for the technical aspects of DT or prog in general, you would think I would be the type of guy that doesn't care for Mangini's overly analytical way of drumming. You would be wrong though. Everything he plays feels so natural and always has a hell of a groove. Plus he is just entertaining as hell to watch.

[deggs37]

I loved Portnoy when he was in the band but they have moved on, maybe it’s time we all did too.

Many people can't get over the fact that Kevin Moore left, either.

I put on my Space-Dye Vest everyday and quietly weep in the corner.

[Kram]

What if Mike Portnoy played on the new album ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av6tcJxx0kg

Please. No.

Interestingly, that guy plays like it's peak MP from 2002 or 2003 or something. Not sure MP himself would play like this today.
Get THAT guy in the DT drummer seat. He puts the groove back into DT's music. Way more interesting that what Mangini laid down. Drums make or break rock related music.

You've lost me there Bro - MM performance on The Alien is as awesome as it gets IMO

[H2]

Gave the new album a first listen yesterday.

I really liked the energy and drive that seems to have continued from D/T. I'm left wanting more, in a good way. Even though this one has longer songs and more virtuoso noodling, the composition still feels tight to me. Also, the sound quality is crisp and fantastic.

Things I didn't like: I personally haven't been into their musical direction since MP left. I felt like he must have contributed this larger-than-life theatrical element, something that really characterized the SFAM-BCaSL run. That element has been present here and there in songs like Breaking All Illusions, The Bigger Picture, and Illumination Theory, and very well exemplified by the entirety of The Astonishing (an album I personally loved), but notably absent from D/T and probably AVFTTOTW as well.

Favorite tracks so far might be The Alien and AVFTTOTW.

[lovethedrake]

I’m a portnoy guy but mangini sounds fresh and inspired on this album.  It’s time for JP to change something up.  Go back to jazzy fusion type stuff or something. 

He’s my favorite musician but nothing on this album aside from the IM solo sounds even remotely new or interesting from JP.   The same can be said for JR.  We’ve heard the movie score fake strings a zillion times now.

I really like the album but the lack of originality shines through a lot.   Yes it’s the 15th album and for a 15th album this is incredible but it’s also a message board to analyze the album and those are my thoughts. 

The part on the title track starting with “all my natural instincts” up until the unnecessary wanking instrumental part is some of the finest DT material in a long time,   Everybody crushes that section and JLB sounds amazing.

[jayvee3]

What if Mike Portnoy played on the new album ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av6tcJxx0kg

Please. No.

Interestingly, that guy plays like it's peak MP from 2002 or 2003 or something. Not sure MP himself would play like this today.
Get THAT guy in the DT drummer seat. He puts the groove back into DT's music. Way more interesting that what Mangini laid down. Drums make or break rock related music.

Bullshit.

For a World Class Drummer, Mangini is way low on my list of drummers I enjoy listening to.
Speed and technicality alone is not impressive to me beyond getting into the record books.

The album has officially been out 5 days, so hey, why even give it a week before we come back to the constant dribble about MM having no groove 

Seriously - MM sounds terrific, his drumming is awesome and many have stated how they feel he is the MVP of the album. But alas, here we are. You must be a walking festival at all the parties…

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

The thing is, MP isn't a groove drummer either. He's a rock drummer with a very typical rock-feel. And at the end of the day this isn't R&B or Funk where the pocket is really making the song. You should almost expect that blasting through time signature changes and shredding is going to facilitate a more rigid feel in the rhythm section.

I think this criticism of MM and yearning for MP because of his groove is really just a way of saying I preferred the MP days and I think MM is over playing. There isn't really any groove in MP era DT. It's just a more straight forward rock approach to drumming.

There isn't any discernible difference to me in MM's approach from DT12-AV. I think the main thing that is changed is his ideas are being taken more into account during the songwriting process. I think JP may have mentioned that the time signature that is the basis for PBD opening riff was a MM thing. Also made a similar comment about Alien, if I am not mistaken.

[Dedalus]

I loved Portnoy when he was in the band but they have moved on, maybe it’s time we all did too.

Yeah, I've seen that guy and while he is a very good drummer and imitates MP style really well, his DT covers just make me realize how much I don't want MP back in the band.

 

It's like I say... MP issue is always present. EVER.

As some have pointed out, in less than a week we are back to MP.

It's pathological.

[erciccio]

After another few listens, the situation is getting worse for me...

I like (but not love) the first four tracks, but I find TT, ATM and the title track totally boring.

In particular:
 - TT sounds "confused" to me, for most of the chorus and pre-chorus I cannot connect the harmony to the melody, it's just all messed-up for me, and the solo is just not a good solo played over a not so good riff
 - ATM has just nothing inside that I find interesting, the main riff is just the usual JP's riff played on the 8th string, making it just more muffled..
 - AVFTTOTW is not an epic, is just a long song filled with useless stuff...and I cannot find a single brilliant idea in the whole 20 minutes..e.g. the initial riff is just a boring chugga-chugging over a weird tempo (12/12 + 11/12)

Overall I agree with the other forum members who think that JP is the weak link here: the solos are 10+in terms of technique, but 5-- in terms of emotions and creativity, and the background work is even annoying at times (the rentless low-string riffing below the verses...)

The disc will rank very low in my list, very close to the bottom...but I am already looking forward to the next album! 

[Mebert78]

The album has not wowed me too much yet either.  For me, I think I'm not a fan of the band writing together in the studio in LTE fashion, as I did not love Distance over Time either and I believe that was written in a similar fashion.  However, I LOVE the first two albums from DT's Mangini era, ADToE and the self-titled disc, which I believe had more songs that were JP creations.  I think I prefer when JP has more control over the overall songwriting.

[Bacong]

i don't know who said it earlier in the thread, but the dude who said transcending time was dt doing rush better than rush, i am ashamed of you.

[JRuless]

After another few listens, the situation is getting worse for me...

...

Sad to hear, dont look to much forward to a new album I would suggest...

[erciccio]

After another few listens, the situation is getting worse for me...

...

Sad to hear, dont look to much forward to a new album I would suggest...

Luckily, I was quite satisfied with Terminal Velocity and LTE3, there's plenty of interesting guitar stuff in there..should be enough to study for a couple of years..
...and..the best DT is yet to come!

[erciccio]

The album has not wowed me too much yet either.  For me, I think I'm not a fan of the band writing together in the studio in LTE fashion, as I did not love Distance over Time either and I believe that was written in a similar fashion.  However, I LOVE the first two albums from DT's Mangini era, ADToE and the self-titled disc, which I believe had more songs that were JP creations.  I think I prefer when JP has more control over the overall songwriting.

This is a very interesting perspective...I actually love ADTOE and The Astonishing, that are probably the most JP (and JR) driven album, from a writing point of view.

In both D/T and AVFTTOTW I am totally missing two "ingredients" of the DT-magic receipt, a strong focus on melody and the presence of "musical journeys" in the instrumental sections (a la Learning to live); there might be a correlation to the writing-together process, who knows..we should place an hidden camera in the DT HQ "writing room"

[Chino]

I've listened to this album maybe 7 or 8 times since release. If you take Invisible Monster out of the equation, I think this is one of DT's best releases and contains some of their best work. Transcending Time is fucking phenomenal. I've listed to that track on its own probably 20+ times now. I can't get enough of it. I wish the piano at the end was longer though.

[Dedalus]

Curious that many have experienced a problem with melodies. To my ears if someone says that this record lacks melodies it makes the same sense if they say the Earth is flat. In other words, none.

I resoundingly disagree.

[devieira73]

I've listened to this album maybe 7 or 8 times since release. If you take Invisible Monster out of the equation, I think this is one of DT's best releases and contains some of their best work. Transcending Time is fucking phenomenal. I've listed to that track on its own probably 20+ times now. I can't get enough of it. I wish the piano at the end was longer though.

This is, in short, also my opinion. IM isn't awful, but it just isn't in the same league of the rest of the album to me. I'm already listening to the album excluding IM and it flows amazingly from beginning to end.

[Architeuthis]

I've listened to this album maybe 7 or 8 times since release. If you take Invisible Monster out of the equation, I think this is one of DT's best releases

Once again,  I do not understand the dislike for Invisible Monster whatsoever.  It's a excellent track and is right up there with the rest of the songs on this album.  It's kind of like Pull Me Under meets Behind the Veil which are two great songs.
I'm glad you're digging the rest of the album though. 

[lovethedrake]

Curious that many have experienced a problem with melodies. To my ears if someone says that this record lacks melodies it makes the same sense if they say the Earth is flat. In other words, none.

I resoundingly disagree.

I think there are melodies but they are pretty generic, especially the choruses.  The choruses just seem to come out of nowhere and are often super generic.  It reminds me a little of the self titled in this regard.  They never add to the song to me … which is weird.  I’m usually just waiting for them to end.  Although I do like the title tracks chorus because I like the drumming on it.

A lot of the album seems forced to me “oh we need a chorus here(sleeping giant)” or “oh I guess we need a crazy instrumental here(title track)”

The album doesn’t feel organic.  It feels very formulaic.

On the flip side i find all 7 tracks to be solid and there is no dud, I really like IM.   

It’s fine effort from them IMO but I thought it would be a little better as I thought every album got better in the MM era until now.  I’m tbd as to whether this is better than DoT or worse.

[hunnus2000]

Curious that many have experienced a problem with melodies. To my ears if someone says that this record lacks melodies it makes the same sense if they say the Earth is flat. In other words, none.

I resoundingly disagree.

I am with you on this! The melodies are not as obvious as on other albums but they are there. DT could write a whole album full of melodious songs (they have done this before) and they would still get criticized for it.

[Dedalus]

Curious that many have experienced a problem with melodies. To my ears if someone says that this record lacks melodies it makes the same sense if they say the Earth is flat. In other words, none.

I resoundingly disagree.

I think there are melodies but they are pretty generic, especially the choruses.  The choruses just seem to come out of nowhere and are often super generic.  It reminds me a little of the self titled in this regard.  They never add to the song to me … which is weird.  I’m usually just waiting for them to end.  Although I do like the title tracks chorus because I like the drumming on it.

A lot of the album seems forced to me “oh we need a chorus here(sleeping giant)” or “oh I guess we need a crazy instrumental here(title track)”

The album doesn’t feel organic.  It feels very formulaic.

On the flip side i find all 7 tracks to be solid and there is no dud, I really like IM.   

It’s fine effort from them IMO but I thought it would be a little better as I thought every album got better in the MM era until now.  I’m tbd as to whether this is better than DoT or worse.

Curious how yesterday I thought something like this, only about the Octavarium.

It's a formulaic record, but in a different way. On Octavarium it seems like things worked like "we need a ballad", "now we need a U2 song", "this is very light, we need heavy metal", "now how about we imitate Muse?", " let's do a very progressive epic now"... and that's how the album came about.

[The Letter M]

I really don't think the band think like that, as if they have a whiteboard checklist that says "Write a ballad", "Write a heavy metal song", and "Write an extended epic" (although they did say they wanted to write an epic on this album since it had been a few albums since their last one).

I think their influences just happen to make their way into their music by chance, rather than being a direct jumping off point for music, especially now than MP isn't in the band, given his propensity to bring in music to directly influence the writing process.

And because we are all fans of a lot of the music DT are fans of, we can easily recognize those influences, but if you aren't familiar with those bands you might not necessarily notice those similarities, like the one poster here who didn't hear a Rush influence in "Transcending Time". Fans unfamiliar with Muse might not hear "Never Enough" or "Prophets Of War" as anything but Dream Theater songs.

-Marc.

[gzarruk]

Short video of MM playing the intro to the title track: https://www.facebook.com/MikeMangini/videos/568696034416822/

[Glasser]

I really don't think the band think like that, as if they have a whiteboard checklist that says "Write a ballad", "Write a heavy metal song", and "Write an extended epic" (although they did say they wanted to write an epic on this album since it had been a few albums since their last one).

I think their influences just happen to make their way into their music by chance, rather than being a direct jumping off point for music, especially now than MP isn't in the band, given his propensity to bring in music to directly influence the writing process.

And because we are all fans of a lot of the music DT are fans of, we can easily recognize those influences, but if you aren't familiar with those bands you might not necessarily notice those similarities, like the one poster here who didn't hear a Rush influence in "Transcending Time". Fans unfamiliar with Muse might not hear "Never Enough" or "Prophets Of War" as anything but Dream Theater songs.

-Marc.

In the documentary JP said MM came to him and said it would be cool to have a mid tempo tune and JP was hesitant but ultimately that song is Invisible Monster.

[The Letter M]

I really don't think the band think like that, as if they have a whiteboard checklist that says "Write a ballad", "Write a heavy metal song", and "Write an extended epic" (although they did say they wanted to write an epic on this album since it had been a few albums since their last one).

I think their influences just happen to make their way into their music by chance, rather than being a direct jumping off point for music, especially now than MP isn't in the band, given his propensity to bring in music to directly influence the writing process.

And because we are all fans of a lot of the music DT are fans of, we can easily recognize those influences, but if you aren't familiar with those bands you might not necessarily notice those similarities, like the one poster here who didn't hear a Rush influence in "Transcending Time". Fans unfamiliar with Muse might not hear "Never Enough" or "Prophets Of War" as anything but Dream Theater songs.

-Marc.

In the documentary JP said MM came to him and said it would be cool to have a mid tempo tune and JP was hesitant but ultimately that song is Invisible Monster.

Fair, but I think that was more or less for variety on the album, and to appease Mike, especially since John seemed hesitant about it at first. But it's not like Mike said "Let's do a song that sounds like __(band)__."

I just think it's a bit unfair to say the band is still formulating their albums with specific influences in mind prior to going into the studio. And even if they do so what? They're established enough that their music can stand alone, but fans always feel the need to compare and contrast.

-Marc.

[Madman Shepherd]

I've listened to this album maybe 7 or 8 times since release. If you take Invisible Monster out of the equation, I think this is one of DT's best releases and contains some of their best work. Transcending Time is fucking phenomenal. I've listed to that track on its own probably 20+ times now. I can't get enough of it. I wish the piano at the end was longer though.

This is what I love about discussion boards like this. Your view and my view is identical...except switch TT and IM.

At least we agree that 5 of the 7 tracks are fucking phenomenal!
 

[Wim Kruithof]

It’s time for JP to change something up.  Go back to jazzy fusion type stuff or something. 

He’s my favorite musician but nothing on this album aside from the IM solo sounds even remotely new or interesting from JP.   The same can be said for JR.  We’ve heard the movie score fake strings a zillion times now.

I really like the album but the lack of originality shines through a lot.   Yes it’s the 15th album and for a 15th album this is incredible but it’s also a message board to analyze the album and those are my thoughts. 

I really wonder what you mean with the lack of originality by both Petrucci and Rudess. In Answering the Call there's this new darkish vibe which reminds me of the Awake times, but in a new fresh framework. Also the Sleeping Giant is like nothing I've heard and compositionally they blown me away. Transcending Time... how can you honestly say that that isn't original, not one song in all their discography comes even close.  And then I'm not even talking 'bout the epic, which - as is obviously - is like no epic ever before.

I can follow when old-skool Dream Theater fans do not like the new style they've accomplished, but I cannot understand when somebody throws lack of originality at their doorstep. Both the Astonishing and a View is like nothing they've ever done... and they still are capable of keeping the sound familiar.

[Wim Kruithof]

This is what I love about discussion boards like this. Your view and my view is identical...except switch TT and IM.

At least we agree that 5 of the 7 tracks are fucking phenomenal!
 

Make it 7 of the 7 tracks and I'm in as well. 

[bosk1]

I loved Portnoy when he was in the band but they have moved on, maybe it’s time we all did too.

Many people can't get over the fact that Kevin Moore left, either.

I put on my Space-Dye Vest everyday and quietly weep in the corner.

But it has a lot of pockets! It's so cool, right?

Anyhow, this thread is not about Mike Portnoy.  Please keep it on topic.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

It’s time for JP to change something up.  Go back to jazzy fusion type stuff or something. 

He’s my favorite musician but nothing on this album aside from the IM solo sounds even remotely new or interesting from JP.   The same can be said for JR.  We’ve heard the movie score fake strings a zillion times now.

I really like the album but the lack of originality shines through a lot.   Yes it’s the 15th album and for a 15th album this is incredible but it’s also a message board to analyze the album and those are my thoughts. 

I really wonder what you mean with the lack of originality by both Petrucci and Rudess. In Answering the Call there's this new darkish vibe which reminds me of the Awake times, but in a new fresh framework. Also the Sleeping Giant is like nothing I've heard and compositionally they blown me away. Transcending Time... how can you honestly say that that isn't original, not one song in all their discography comes even close.  And then I'm not even talking 'bout the epic, which - as is obviously - is like no epic ever before.

I can follow when old-skool Dream Theater fans do not like the new style they've accomplished, but I cannot understand when somebody throws lack of originality at their doorstep. Both the Astonishing and a View is like nothing they've ever done... and they still are capable of keeping the sound familiar.

I am not agreeing with him (and I am not sure what he meant by JP going back to 'jazzy fusion') but I do think the band's sound has a more consistent general identity since DT12 (TA aside). There are certainly differences between the 3 discs.

JP has continued to churn out great riffs (DT15 included) but I do identify with some of them feeling same-ish lately. It's only natural for someone who has been doing this for 3 decades. Perhaps this is what he meant by unoriginal.

[chwik]

Whether JP breaks new ground, sound samy or genereic or whathever, at least he puts him self out there unafraid of producing music critics might like or not. Armchair critics, on the other hand, remain exactly that. Without comparison orherwise, I am sometimes reminded of armchair critics with the saying «why aren’t the world’s problems solved? Because the people who knows how to solve the problems are too busy driving taxis!»

[nobloodyname]

As some have pointed out, in less than a week we are back to MP.

It's pathological.

Let's be honest, one regular poster, who passionately dislikes MP now, decided to post the video here because he knew what would happen as a result. Hats off, expert trolling

BOHICA.

Edit: just read the rest of the comments. So, to be on topic: I'm enjoying the album; a very solid 8/10. But I am still having real trouble telling all the songs apart.

[Max Kuehnau]

As some have pointed out, in less than a week we are back to MP.

It's pathological.

Let's be honest, one regular poster, who passionately dislikes MP now, decided to post the video here because he knew what would happen as a result. Hats off, expert trolling

BOHICA.

Edit: just read the rest of the comments. So, to be on topic: I'm enjoying the album; a very solid 8/10. But I am still having real trouble telling all the songs apart.

BOHICA? Sounds like a fictional island a film is set on. Anyway, I can tell them apart, rather well even I guess. And I love the album lots. Part of my eternal three along with Dramatic Turn and DT12. (it possibly even is above these two) Masterpiece material this album (to me)

[SeRoX]

Do you guys still think DT needs a outsider producer?

Me thinking, YES! Tbh, new album is one of their best and the best of MM era. But still it's like they've been running in circle. Songs tend to sound samey, vocals are generic.