Invisible Monster Thread ! ALL SPOILERS !

[evz]

Waldorf gets no love.  Just sayin...

[jingle.boy]

Once you go Stadler, you never go back.  I think that's what they say.

That's what she said.

[nobloodyname]

Once you go Stadler, you never go back.  I think that's what they say.

That's what she said.

Pretty sure she didn't

[Dedalus]

On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147

And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.

[Stadler]

Once you go Stadler, you never go back.  I think that's what they say.

That's what she said.

Pretty sure she didn't

HAHAHAHA

[jingle.boy]

Once you go Stadler, you never go back.  I think that's what they say.

That's what she said.

Pretty sure she didn't

FYI, I was *not* referring to Mrs Stadler #1 

[TAC]

Everyone should go Stadler once in a while.

It’s only common sense.

[jingle.boy]

Everyone should go Stadler once in a while.

It’s only common sense.

Yet deplorable at the same time.

[King Postwhore]

I always put on a Waldorf mask when I go Stadler.

[evz]

I really like both songs.  Some familiar elements, of course, but I hear new things in there as well.  Especially like them back to back.  Can't wait to hear the whole thing, as it seems there is a bigger picture here.  Haha...

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147

And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.

This is where people get confused about that site. Those numbers really only refer to the dynamic range of the track in question. You can have a fairly low number and still have a good sounding track.

Also, just because that number is low (in the red), does not necessarily mean the track is "too loud" or clips.

[Dedalus]

On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147

And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.

This is where people get confused about that site. Those numbers really only refer to the dynamic range of the track in question. You can have a fairly low number and still have a good sounding track.

Also, just because that number is low (in the red), does not necessarily mean the track is "too loud" or clips.

Exactly. That's why I've questioned the DR discussion for years. Because in discussions basically you have to "low DR = bad sound".

I'll make an analogy: if you measure the temperature of a human being and find a temperature higher than 38°C (or precisely 37.8°C), the person has a fever. Period, no discussion.

We've been using DR as a measure of “music fever” for years, but it's not a good measure. At least not in isolation.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147

And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.

This is where people get confused about that site. Those numbers really only refer to the dynamic range of the track in question. You can have a fairly low number and still have a good sounding track.

Also, just because that number is low (in the red), does not necessarily mean the track is "too loud" or clips.

Exactly. That's why I've questioned the DR discussion for years. Because in discussions basically you have to "low DR = bad sound".

I'll make an analogy: if you measure the temperature of a human being and find a temperature higher than 38°C (or precisely 37.8°C), the person has a fever. Period, no discussion.

We've been using DR as a measure of “music fever” for years, but it's not a good measure. At least not in isolation.

Oh yeah, it's a bad measure since most of the people that refer to that site to show an album is bad just because the DR score is low, do so in ignorance. And most likely don't even have audio equipment capable of playing back the music in a way that it would be discernible.

I saw a person's profile on RYM the other day that said in the "about me" section that any music rated lower than an 8 on DR is objectively bad and they won't listen to it... Too bad for them, they are missing out on a ton of not only good music, but music that sounds good from a production, mixing, and mastering standpoint.

[TL]

So far, I sort of like both new songs. I'm certainly getting the new album.

One thing I've found with some new DT songs from the last few records; It feels a bit paint by numbers. Have fairly standard sections, but with some non 4/4 time signatures, or with a bit of noodling.

Put an instrumental. A bit noodly, but nothing too off-putting. Then, basically, have the more accessible part (with a few odd time signatures, but nothing too scary). This part has vocals.
It feels a bit at this point like they're forcing the non-standard time signatures ad such. I'd love for them to just write what felt natural, even if it's all 4/4.

I would love for them to take more chances. After all, every band has a phase where they play it a bit safe. Rush released Hold Your Fire. They recovered.

Basically, I'll likely enjoy the new DT to some extent, but I would love for them to truly write without restriction. Without fan expectation. Though I understand why that's likely impossible.
It isn't even a 'new era' problem, because ADTOE doesn't feel that way.

It's also strange, because the new JP and LTE records were stellar. Maybe they used up a bunch of ideas there? IDK.

[erwinrafael]

I think writing The Alien primarily in 19/8 as the backbeat and then overlaying 4/4 snare and hihats while the kick plays odd time and then surprisingly going double time in the usually dramatic outro is not standard.

[BeatriceNB]

So far, I sort of like both new songs. I'm certainly getting the new album.

One thing I've found with some new DT songs from the last few records; It feels a bit paint by numbers. Have fairly standard sections, but with some non 4/4 time signatures, or with a bit of noodling.

Put an instrumental. A bit noodly, but nothing too off-putting. Then, basically, have the more accessible part (with a few odd time signatures, but nothing too scary). This part has vocals.
It feels a bit at this point like they're forcing the non-standard time signatures ad such. I'd love for them to just write what felt natural, even if it's all 4/4.

I would love for them to take more chances. After all, every band has a phase where they play it a bit safe. Rush released Hold Your Fire. They recovered.

Basically, I'll likely enjoy the new DT to some extent, but I would love for them to truly write without restriction. Without fan expectation. Though I understand why that's likely impossible.
It isn't even a 'new era' problem, because ADTOE doesn't feel that way.

It's also strange, because the new JP and LTE records were stellar. Maybe they used up a bunch of ideas there? IDK.

The Astonishing was specifically that: uncommon (for DT) arrangements, real orchestra, through-composed, a grand piano in most of the songs, 2 hours length, many technical parts that feel really natural... And it was massacred by people without idea of what they were talking about 

I really don't get the last part, to me, LTE 3 and TV felt completely safe, predictable and boring. I'm not debating their enjoyability, but I don't get how those are not safe, or like new DT releases.

[erwinrafael]

Personally, I can not reconcile arguments that DT has no new ideas, does not experiment with structure, or that they play it safe with references to The Alien.

[PixelDream]

I quite like Invisible Monster, especially the main instrumental theme is totally killer IMO.

[wasteland]

I must say I'm fairly surprised to see such a lukewarm, if not outright negative, reaction to Invisible Monster. To each their own, I guess!

As for myself I'm liking the song quite a lot, the chorus is fairly catchy (not earth shatteringly so, but you can't have it all), while the instrumental section is absolutely top notch, such as that I've often found myself replaying it multiple times before progressing further into the song.

All in all, a good to great song to close album appetiser season in style.

[KevShmev]

On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147

And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.

This is where people get confused about that site. Those numbers really only refer to the dynamic range of the track in question. You can have a fairly low number and still have a good sounding track.

Also, just because that number is low (in the red), does not necessarily mean the track is "too loud" or clips.

Exactly. That's why I've questioned the DR discussion for years. Because in discussions basically you have to "low DR = bad sound".

I'll make an analogy: if you measure the temperature of a human being and find a temperature higher than 38°C (or precisely 37.8°C), the person has a fever. Period, no discussion.

We've been using DR as a measure of “music fever” for years, but it's not a good measure. At least not in isolation.

Oh yeah, it's a bad measure since most of the people that refer to that site to show an album is bad just because the DR score is low, do so in ignorance. And most likely don't even have audio equipment capable of playing back the music in a way that it would be discernible.

I saw a person's profile on RYM the other day that said in the "about me" section that any music rated lower than an 8 on DR is objectively bad and they won't listen to it... Too bad for them, they are missing out on a ton of not only good music, but music that sounds good from a production, mixing, and mastering standpoint.

Not sure if that is a thinly veiled shot at those of us who did reference the site , but I will clarify to say that while I think the scores we can find there are pretty useful, they are not the end-all be-all.  Yes, there are albums with poor dynamic ranges that still manage to sound good.  But, to me, it is not even about dynamic range; it is about allowing the music to breathe. If an album sounds worse the louder you turn it up, that is never a good sign.

[HOF]

FII does sound good overall, but it is on the higher end of acceptable hotness IMO.

[RandalGraves]

FII does sound good overall, but it is on the higher end of acceptable hotness IMO.

Probably the best review of FII. "Acceptable hotness."

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147

And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.

This is where people get confused about that site. Those numbers really only refer to the dynamic range of the track in question. You can have a fairly low number and still have a good sounding track.

Also, just because that number is low (in the red), does not necessarily mean the track is "too loud" or clips.

Exactly. That's why I've questioned the DR discussion for years. Because in discussions basically you have to "low DR = bad sound".

I'll make an analogy: if you measure the temperature of a human being and find a temperature higher than 38°C (or precisely 37.8°C), the person has a fever. Period, no discussion.

We've been using DR as a measure of “music fever” for years, but it's not a good measure. At least not in isolation.

Oh yeah, it's a bad measure since most of the people that refer to that site to show an album is bad just because the DR score is low, do so in ignorance. And most likely don't even have audio equipment capable of playing back the music in a way that it would be discernible.

I saw a person's profile on RYM the other day that said in the "about me" section that any music rated lower than an 8 on DR is objectively bad and they won't listen to it... Too bad for them, they are missing out on a ton of not only good music, but music that sounds good from a production, mixing, and mastering standpoint.

Not sure if that is a thinly veiled shot at those of us who did reference the site , but I will clarify to say that while I think the scores we can find there are pretty useful, they are not the end-all be-all.  Yes, there are albums with poor dynamic ranges that still manage to sound good.  But, to me, it is not even about dynamic range; it is about allowing the music to breathe. If an album sounds worse the louder you turn it up, that is never a good sign.

Not taking shots at anyone specifically, but I do find that a lot of people use that site to justify calling out albums as sounding bad just because their respective DR scores are somewhat low. Typically the only time an album sounds worse the more you turn it up is when the music is clipping, but that has nothing to do with dynamic range.

A good example is Tool's album Lateralus. That is one of the best sounding albums out there (as are most Tool albums), yet it has songs with DR scores mostly in the 9's and one 8.

[Kotowboy]

Whats The Story Morning Glory is apparently one of the hottest albums as far as dynamic range - but it still sounds nice compared to an album like Death Magnetic.

An album can be brickwalled but not clip - and not cause ear fatigue.

[Peter Mc]

So far, I sort of like both new songs. I'm certainly getting the new album.

One thing I've found with some new DT songs from the last few records; It feels a bit paint by numbers. Have fairly standard sections, but with some non 4/4 time signatures, or with a bit of noodling.

Put an instrumental. A bit noodly, but nothing too off-putting. Then, basically, have the more accessible part (with a few odd time signatures, but nothing too scary). This part has vocals.
It feels a bit at this point like they're forcing the non-standard time signatures ad such. I'd love for them to just write what felt natural, even if it's all 4/4.

I would love for them to take more chances. After all, every band has a phase where they play it a bit safe. Rush released Hold Your Fire. They recovered.

Basically, I'll likely enjoy the new DT to some extent, but I would love for them to truly write without restriction. Without fan expectation. Though I understand why that's likely impossible.
It isn't even a 'new era' problem, because ADTOE doesn't feel that way.

It's also strange, because the new JP and LTE records were stellar. Maybe they used up a bunch of ideas there? IDK.

They tried something different, The Astonishing, fans didn’t react too well.

I agree with you about JP’s solo record but thought LTE was pretty underwhelming.  If you’re talking safe/paint by numbers, that LTE record was the most “let’s write something that sounds like our other albums” I’ve heard in a while.

[Kotowboy]

I'm always suspicious of bands that do that

Death Magnetic was hardly on par with Ride The Lightning or Master of Puppets.

The only time I can think that it really worked was when Therapy? tried to write a Troublegum sequel and came up with Cleave. An also fantastic album.

It sounds like the album that perhaps they should have done in 1995.

[BeatriceNB]

I'm always suspicious of bands that do that

Death Magnetic was hardly on par with Ride The Lightning or Master of Puppets.

The only time I can think that it really worked was when Therapy? tried to write a Troublegum sequel and came up with Cleave. An also fantastic album.

It sounds like the album that perhaps they should have done in 1995.

While Death Magnetic has the same structure as Ride, Master and Justice, I always thought the writing on that album was amazing. And not a clone of their earlier style (DM has a happier sound overall).
Very huge agree on the bolded part.

[gzarruk]

Wasn't Kaleidoscope (Transatlantic) a very clear attempt at doing something similar to their first two albums? Didn't work too well for them as far as fan reception.

[nobloodyname]

Typically the only time an album sounds worse the more you turn it up is when the music is clipping, but that has nothing to do with dynamic range.

True but the two are often linked in this specific context.

[Kotowboy]

It's like Bat out of Hell 2 3 4 5 and Tubular Bells 2 3 4 5 etc etc - It just looks like " hey it sold last time ! "

And yes - if the music is great you should want to turn it up gradually because you're enjoying it.

If you keep wanting to turn the volume down - that's a problem.

[Stadler]

Whats The Story Morning Glory is apparently one of the hottest albums as far as dynamic range - but it still sounds nice compared to an album like Death Magnetic.

An album can be brickwalled but not clip - and not cause ear fatigue.

I just listened to that this weekend (the new deluxe version) and that album actually sounds really good to me.  It's also a function of the type of music; there's a warmth to the songs themselves that to me sort of cuts the hotness (if that makes sense: I don't know all the terminology).

[Kotowboy]

It was probably recorded on tape. Seeing as it was 1995.

Death Magnetic is all digital I'd have thought. I don't know for sure. The drums were done at Sound City and everything else was done at Metallica HQ as far as I know.

[darkshade]

It was probably recorded on tape. Seeing as it was 1995.

Death Magnetic is all digital I'd have thought.

I think most, if not all, major recording studios were all-digital by 1995, if not sooner.

If an album came out once CDs were available, they were either AAD or ADD, but by the mid-late 90s I think just about all CDs were DDD.

[Zook]

Bosk has heard the full album too? What makes him so special? What, does he run the message board or something? 

[Kotowboy]

Bosk has heard the full album too? What makes him so special? What, does he run the message board or something? 

Must be nice being on top of the world....How's the view up there ?