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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Kotowboy on September 21, 2021, 02:08:11 PM
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Same as before. Keep all spoilery-ish chat in here so the other thread ca be more general !!
Song is out tomorrow !
Hoping that means available at midnight wherever you are!
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Listening to the 90 second preview on iTunes.
Sounds fantastic production wise !
:)
But as with the Alien - nothing really jumps out vocally as being super catchy.
Based on this - the new album will be the best sounding of the Mangini era by far.
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9pm in PST!!
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Right, definitely no re-invention of the wheel taking place so far . . .
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I'm not expecting a massive 180 stylistically. After 36 years and 15 albums it's enough that the music is still good.
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Right, definitely no re-invention of the wheel taking place so far . . .
Why would you expect that?
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The absolute last thing I want Dream Theater to do is pull a Radiohead and throw away all their guitars and start using keyboards and drum machines exclusively.
No Thank you.
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The absolute last thing I want Dream Theater to do is pull a Radiohead and throw away all their guitars and start using keyboards and drum machines exclusively.
No Thank you.
Not that, but I would love to hear the guitars used as keyboards/pads, and Mangini playing on an electronic kit.
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Of course there are exceptions - but in my opinion - when ROCK bands start using keyboards instead of guitars - it usually means they've run out of ideas.
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Right, definitely no re-invention of the wheel taking place so far . . .
Just listened to the song now, they sound as bored as they looked in that interview vid. Everything they are doing now is just sounding the same, they have gotten stale and are in a rut sound wise IMO. Didn't like this song at all. There's no energy here whatsoever.
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How ironic it would be if they decided to take 5 years off
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Right, definitely no re-invention of the wheel taking place so far . . .
Just listened to the song now, they sound as bored as they looked in that interview vid. Everything they are doing now is just sounding the same, they have gotten stale and are in a rut sound wise IMO. Didn't like this song at all. There's no energy here whatsoever.
If we are to believe that some ppl on the thread have indeed heard the album as they've claimed then supposedly the album is fresh and great. Who knows though. At the very least I'm happy with the production of both
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Alright! Concise, need the let it sink in a bit. Same feel as I had with The Alien. No key solo. A get the feel of TEI.
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Listened to the song about 5/6 times and I didn't like it so much.
I "understand" the song, probably the most "commercial" on the album (people who have listened the whole thing could confirm or deny this for us), at the same time it's very dark, everybody playing tight, cool bass and drums dynamics, cool solo, some good vocal moments.
But I don't know, it didn't hit me. As any DT song, time can change it all! Still very excited for the new album.
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Alright! Concise, need the let it sink in a bit. Same feel as I had with The Alien. No key solo. A get the feel of TEI.
I don't hear that at all.
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Reviews for this one are lukewarm so far!! Wasn't paralyzed the second single off d/t? And some other more mainstream song the 2nd single from a prior album? Maybe second single is just not a good spot
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Right, definitely no re-invention of the wheel taking place so far . . .
Just listened to the song now, they sound as bored as they looked in that interview vid. Everything they are doing now is just sounding the same, they have gotten stale and are in a rut sound wise IMO. Didn't like this song at all. There's no energy here whatsoever.
I haven't listened to it yet but that would be terrible if I end up agreeing lol. I think a few of the band members described high energy (paraphrasing here) throughout the album. My biggest fear indeed is that this song and the album end up sounding like recycled material, but at the same time I would not be surprised based on how this release has gone: barely anything mentioned about the album or the creative process and one single that sounds very much like what you say above. I am also keeping in mind how much OTHER music some of the band members are writing at the same time they are making this album, and wondering if maybe it was just too much.
I remember when they were writing and recording DoT we would get snippets here and there of JP or whoever else in the studio. They seemed genuinely happy about how they were making that album. I hope this one isn't just going through the motions. T minus a few hours for me .
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If this album ends up sounding a little uninspired then my guess about JP spreading himself too thin across 4 albums over 2 years may ring true.
Disappointing if it's not the "career highlight" level album that i've seen it touted as.
:)
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Now that is underwhelming.
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I hope I am wrong, but as I said not just this one but both these first two tracks to me sound like a band who are bored and stale. I hope the people saying it's fresh are right though and I can be persuaded otherwise once the album is out.
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If this album ends up sounding a little uninspired then my guess about JP spreading himself too thin across 4 albums over 2 years may ring true.
Disappointing if it's not the "career highlight" level album that i've seen it touted as.
:)
This has been mostly one guy. We have no way of knowing who's actually heard what :lol
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Well then i stand by my assessment ;D
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If this album ends up sounding a little uninspired then my guess about JP spreading himself too thin across 4 albums over 2 years may ring true.
Disappointing if it's not the "career highlight" level album that i've seen it touted as.
:)
This has been mostly one guy. We have no way of knowing who's actually heard what :lol
Tough crowd as expected. I have been listening to the album since mid August and I thoroughly love it. Its a kick ass DT album! If the band had to get an OK before they included songs on an album from here, there may ever release another one. 15th album and still going strong! What does everyone want from them?
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That's pretty much where I am.
We're lucky they're this good after 36 years and 15 albums. Most bands end up sounding like all the bands they inspired.
I'm not even bothered if this album is a little safe. Maybe the next one will be different ! :)
Ok it's after midnight GMT. Purchased the song and listening now. . .
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If this album ends up sounding a little uninspired then my guess about JP spreading himself too thin across 4 albums over 2 years may ring true.
Disappointing if it's not the "career highlight" level album that i've seen it touted as.
:)
This has been mostly one guy. We have no way of knowing who's actually heard what :lol
Tough crowd as expected. I have been listening to the album since mid August and I thoroughly love it. Its a kick ass DT album! If the band had to get an OK before they included songs on an album from here, there may ever release another one. 15th album and still going strong! What does everyone want from them?
:rollin
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Invisible Monster has a nice interesting middle section. Some of this track reminds me of Falling Into Infinity... :)
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If this album ends up sounding a little uninspired then my guess about JP spreading himself too thin across 4 albums over 2 years may ring true.
Disappointing if it's not the "career highlight" level album that i've seen it touted as.
:)
This has been mostly one guy. We have no way of knowing who's actually heard what :lol
Tough crowd as expected. I have been listening to the album since mid August and I thoroughly love it. Its a kick ass DT album! If the band had to get an OK before they included songs on an album from here, there may ever release another one. 15th album and still going strong! What does everyone want from them?
My thoughts as well. I’ve learned to take anything I read on here with a grain of salt. I realize everyone has their own tastes and opinions, but there are more negative comments on this forum than on Facebook. And that’s sad!
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:o Oooh harmonised solo !!!! :metal :yarr
Initial thoughts : way more melodic than i anticipated and I like it a lot more than The Alien :) :)
Now i'm excited for the album again ;D
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If this album ends up sounding a little uninspired then my guess about JP spreading himself too thin across 4 albums over 2 years may ring true.
Disappointing if it's not the "career highlight" level album that i've seen it touted as.
:)
This has been mostly one guy. We have no way of knowing who's actually heard what :lol
Tough crowd as expected. I have been listening to the album since mid August and I thoroughly love it. Its a kick ass DT album! If the band had to get an OK before they included songs on an album from here, there may ever release another one. 15th album and still going strong! What does everyone want from them?
Is it not okay to not like something they release?
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Yes ! But not before you 've heard it ! ;D
Also now that DT have their own HQ - there's no reason all the albums from here on shouldn't sound this good.
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That's pretty much where I am.
We're lucky they're this good after 36 years and 15 albums. Most bands end up sounding like all the bands they inspired.
I'm not even bothered if this album is a little safe. Maybe the next one will be different ! :)
Exactly! This album has new elements, I wouldn't say its "safe" as a whole. ATM will knock you all on your asses for sure, they are saving the "meat" for the release, I love both singles but this cat only has 2 paws out of the bag! :)
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Yeah I like this new single a lot. :)
It reminds me of Hells Kitchen meets a bit of In The Presence with a touch of DT12.
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I hope I am wrong, but as I said not just this one but both these first two tracks to me sound like a band who are bored and stale. I hope the people saying it's fresh are right though and I can be persuaded otherwise once the album is out.
Think of the reviews that said the very same things about Senjutsu, and how differently you feel about that album.
Iron Maiden does what Iron Maiden does. Same with Dream Theater.
Maybe it's you that's bored of Dream Theater. :P
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I hope I am wrong, but as I said not just this one but both these first two tracks to me sound like a band who are bored and stale. I hope the people saying it's fresh are right though and I can be persuaded otherwise once the album is out.
Think of the reviews that said the very same things about Senjutsu, and how differently you feel about that album.
Iron Maiden does what Iron Maiden does. Same with Dream Theater.
Maybe it's you that's bored of Dream Theater. :P
I thought the same. I like Reunion Maiden and I like Senjutsu, but I can take the definition of Wolfking for the current DT and easily apply it to Maiden.
EDIT: this definition "Everything they are doing now is just sounding the same, they have gotten stale and are in a rut sound wise IMO"
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That's pretty much where I am.
We're lucky they're this good after 36 years and 15 albums. Most bands end up sounding like all the bands they inspired.
I'm not even bothered if this album is a little safe. Maybe the next one will be different ! :)
Exactly! This album has new elements, I wouldn't say its "safe" as a whole. ATM will knock you all on your asses for sure, they are saving the "meat" for the release, I love both singles but this cat only has 2 paws out of the bag! :)
Glasser - is it your opinion that this is the most radio friendly song on the album?
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That's pretty much where I am.
We're lucky they're this good after 36 years and 15 albums. Most bands end up sounding like all the bands they inspired.
I'm not even bothered if this album is a little safe. Maybe the next one will be different ! :)
Exactly! This album has new elements, I wouldn't say its "safe" as a whole. ATM will knock you all on your asses for sure, they are saving the "meat" for the release, I love both singles but this cat only has 2 paws out of the bag! :)
Glasser - is it your opinion that this is the most radio friendly song on the album?
No.
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What compounds the problem of my listening experience for this song is that the three times I played this song, a song from D/T autoplays after and I can't help but feel more excited with the D/T song. Will listen to my iTunes later.
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Right, definitely no re-invention of the wheel taking place so far . . .
Why would you expect that?
My comment was based on the clip, I haven’t heard the song yet.
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I hope I am wrong, but as I said not just this one but both these first two tracks to me sound like a band who are bored and stale. I hope the people saying it's fresh are right though and I can be persuaded otherwise once the album is out.
Think of the reviews that said the very same things about Senjutsu, and how differently you feel about that album.
Iron Maiden does what Iron Maiden does. Same with Dream Theater.
Maybe it's you that's bored of Dream Theater. :P
This is a definite possibility.
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As a resident Radiohead fan, I have to call BS on the earlier post in this thread about them. They never threw their guitars away and starting exclusively using keyboards and drum machines. That is a lie.
Anyway, back to the new DT!
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As with every new DT song.. I didn’t enjoy the first listen and was mostly confused, then after around 3 listens it clicked & I love it now. Looking forward to hearing the full album! Labrie is sounding awesome singing in a more comfortable range as well… I hope he maintains a similar range throughout the album
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Deleted. I apologize.
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Had a go at the lyrics, similar to SG, TT, ATM. The Alien lyrics were on Apple music but this one isn't for some reason.
Invisible Monster
Lyrics by John Petrucci
When you face the creature
That waits beneath your bed
Will you stare into its eyes
And look away
Running toward the fire
Or fleeing from the flame
The choice to seek or hide
Is yours to make
The serpent inside
Wrapping its tail around my neck
I’m buried alive
Dying to take another breath
Invisible monster
Always felt but never seen
All will come ?
Refusing to leave
Invisible monster
Hiding never showing its face
Feeding on irrational fear
Thoughts grace at a feverish pace (?)
Sowing on a flood of my tears (?)
Perched on his ? shoulder
Whispering in his ear
Things that may never happen
Worries too much to bear
Invisible monster
Always felt but never seen
All will come ?
Refusing to leave
Invisible monster
Invisible monster
Always felt but never seen
All will come ?
Refusing to leave
Invisible monster
Beast that dwells inside my mind
Give up your whole ????
????? take back control
Invisible Monster
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It’s growing on me, the production sounds great though, I will say that.
The second half of the chorus sounds very similar to the end of One Last Time so am guessing this is another JLB penned tune.
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Had a go at the lyrics, similar to SG, TT, ATM. The Alien lyrics were on Apple music but this one isn't for some reason.
Invisible Monster
Lyrics by John Petrucci
When you face the creature
That waits beneath your bed
Will you stare into its eyes
And look away
Running toward the fire
Or fleeing from the flame
The choice to seek or hide
Is yours to make
The serpent inside
Wrapping its tail around my neck
I’m buried alive
Dying to take another breath
Invisible monster
Always felt but never seen
All will come ?
Refusing to leave
Invisible monster
Hiding never showing its face
Feeding on irrational fear
Thoughts grace at a feverish pace (?)
Sowing on a flood of my tears (?)
Perched on his ? shoulder
Whispering in his ear
Things that may never happen
Worries too much to bear
Invisible monster
Always felt but never seen
All will come ?
Refusing to leave
Invisible monster
Invisible monster
Always felt but never seen
All will come ?
Refusing to leave
Invisible monster
Beast that dwells inside my mind
Give up your whole ????
????? take back control
Invisible Monster
For the bolded bits:
- Unwelcome Presence
- Thoughts race at a feverish pace,
Soaring on a flight of ideas
- Perched on it’s victims shoulder
- Give up your hold,
Let me take back control
The lyrics are actually included on the Apple Music version :tup
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How odd, they're not showing on mine. Thanks though!
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As a resident Radiohead fan, I have to call BS on the earlier post in this thread about them. They never threw their guitars away and starting exclusively using keyboards and drum machines. That is a lie.
Nobody cares. :P
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How odd, they're not showing on mine. Thanks though!
No probs mate. There is a little icon to the left wit inverted commas that you often have to press for lyrics. If you’ve done that though, not too sure - I’m in Australia, so perhaps there is something different. In any case, all good :tup
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Right, definitely no re-invention of the wheel taking place so far . . .
Why would you expect that?
My comment was based on the clip, I haven’t heard the song yet.
Still, if you expect them to reinvent the wheel now you are not being realistic.
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Right, definitely no re-invention of the wheel taking place so far . . .
Why would you expect that?
My comment was based on the clip, I haven’t heard the song yet.
Still, if you expect them to reinvent the wheel now you are not being realistic.
The wheel is fine as is. There are so many other bands/albums to go to if you need to give DT a break. I stand firmly that singles in this genre are a waste. A medley would have been best. Most of this speculation will change once the album is out. Only 16 minutes out of 70 is out there. Question, when you all have the album are you going to skip over the singles now? MEDLEY dammit!!!!!! >:( :censored
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice? The head's still amazing right???
Never thought of it this way but I think I see what you're saying :rollin
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I’m confused. Is the full song out now somewhere? All I see on YouTube is the 30 second sampler and there’s nothing on Amazon Music yet. Maybe it’s only out on the other side of the world from the US?
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice? The head's still amazing right???
This analogy sucks. ;D
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As a resident Radiohead fan, I have to call BS on the earlier post in this thread about them. They never threw their guitars away and starting exclusively using keyboards and drum machines. That is a lie.
Nobody cares. :P
:eek :eek
:biggrin: :biggrin:
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice? The head's still amazing right???
This analogy sucks. ;D
(https://c.tenor.com/AKqGLLElz38AAAAM/created-by-anthonylikes2.gif)
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Yeah I like this new single a lot. :)
It reminds me of Hells Kitchen meets a bit of In The Presence with a touch of DT12.
:o :heart :metal
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As a resident Radiohead fan, I have to call BS on the earlier post in this thread about them. They never threw their guitars away and starting exclusively using keyboards and drum machines. That is a lie.
Anyway, back to the new DT!
Yea you're right. They didn't throw away their guitars, just their distortion pedals! ::)
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.
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice? The head's still amazing right???
This analogy sucks. ;D
I crack myself up :lol :lol :lol
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What compounds the problem of my listening experience for this song is that the three times I played this song, a song from D/T autoplays after and I can't help but feel more excited with the D/T song. Will listen to my iTunes later.
Noob delete. :blush
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What compounds the problem of my listening experience for this song is that the three times I played this song, a song from D/T autoplays after and I can't help but feel more excited with the D/T song. Will listen to my iTunes later.
I wish D/T had the production of DT15 because I love the album especially Surrender to Reason!
D/T = Distance over Time
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What compounds the problem of my listening experience for this song is that the three times I played this song, a song from D/T autoplays after and I can't help but feel more excited with the D/T song. Will listen to my iTunes later.
I wish D/T had the production of DT15 because I love the album especially Surrender to Reason!
D/T = Distance over Time
Noob mistake, I though DoT was Distance over Time. :blush
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Sounds like DT. Nothing for me to complain about.
Mangini killed it on the drums again. All of the people
Who complain about Jordan playing a slew of crazy notes have nothing to complain about.
He sounds like Kevin Moore.
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First time around, there's stuff I enjoy and stuff I'm not too crazy about. I think the "gothic" (?), dark sensibility gives the song an interesting tone. There's something about this that really makes me think about the Astonishing (go figure, it's almost like it's the same band!). That's fine by me!
It almost sounds like a return to Heaven's Cove – the fictional place, not the song. There's similarities between Invisible Monster and Heaven's Cove (the song), but I think the latter ends up being more compelling arrangement-wise.
The one thing that didn't win me over was the way the melody works in the last "Invisible moooonsteeer" in the chorus. There's something about that interaction between the vocals and the instruments that didn't gel for me. I can't objectively describe what it is, but the guitars sort of over-power the voice, even though the vocals are layered.
It might grow more for me, I'm definitely willing to give it another go in the context of the album.
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The sound. :heart The middle. :metal I will be turning it on extra loud in my car tomorrow. The lyric melody I will need to sit with, but what it's portraying hits home very hard.
I love when Dream Theater has dark and twisted sounding music and lyrics, but the melody is not so much...Makes it interesting.
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A younger James Labrie would have spiced this song up a little bit when singing the“invisible monster part
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Maybe Dream Theater just doesn't excite me anymore, but they do sound bored. They don't even experiment with song structure anymore or even try anything even slightly outside the box. HIRE A PRODUCER THAT WILL PUSH YOU IN NEW DIRECTIONS!
I mean, they definitely don't need to reinvent the wheel, but what happened to the progressive in progressive metal. It's gone. They are in a rut, imo.
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Wow. Just listened for first time and all I can say is I thought "The Alien" was uninspired but this is REALLY uninspired. I'm actually in shock at how bad that was. What on earth are they thinking? Look, I'd love nothing more than to say I'm thrilled about both songs so far, but my honest opinion is that they are just NOT good songs at all.
I loved "ADTOE" even though I expected the worse after MP left. I was really happy with that album, but it has "IMO" gone to hell in a hand basket with each subsequent release. The Dream Theater album was "good", The Astonishing was anything but :tdwn, and Distance Over Time was at best, "ok".
Maybe I just expect too much from the band at this point, but I'm VERY DISAPPOINTED! Here's hoping there's something redeeming on the rest of album. So sad! :(
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Now this sounds like a single.
It further explores and expands upon that sound introduced in The Alien. I only heard it once, and man what a song. I can hear so many callbacks to older songs in terms of structure, style, groove, tone, atmosphere and feel.
I really love that reminiscent feeling of the middle section of Pull Me Under. It adds a more creepy vibe to the song and is a great way to utilize that structure again.
There's hints of their older sounds, and It's like they threw the Distant Memories Tour setlist in a blender with a dash of Pull Me Under and a pinch of Burning My Soul.
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Just finishing listening to it for the first time. On a super shitty TV speaker.
Even on this speaker it sounds really good production wise, and overall I dig it. Is it my favorite DT song? Hell no. But I do enjoy it.
(Keep in mind that I REALLY liked Paralyzed when it came out).
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Liked it but didn’t love it on first listen but it sounds like a grower.
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That's pretty much where I am.
We're lucky they're this good after 36 years and 15 albums. Most bands end up sounding like all the bands they inspired.
I'm not even bothered if this album is a little safe. Maybe the next one will be different ! :)
Exactly! This album has new elements, I wouldn't say its "safe" as a whole. ATM will knock you all on your asses for sure, they are saving the "meat" for the release, I love both singles but this cat only has 2 paws out of the bag! :)
This quote makes me more excited for what's to come, and I say bring it on. :yarr :corn :metal
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Well, that did nothing for me.
It started of promisingly enough with the Awake style intro, but it was all downhill from there. The whole band sounds exhausted. The song feels like it builds towards something that never happens.
I legitimately struggled to get through this one. I could pick any song from D/T, and it would be better than this.
I truly hope that this is the absolute rock bottom this album is going to hit.
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Not too fond of the song as well. There are some sparks of interests scattered around, especially the section around 2:20 which has a bit of a power metal element to it.
Good that James is singing mostly around his comfortable range, hence the less usage of effects on his voice.
Overall a pretty run of the mill song. I liked the Alien much more.
Still excited about the album, but i can't deny that Invisible Monster was a bit of a disappointment.
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Not too fond of the song as well. There are some sparks of interests scattered around, especially the section around 2:20 which has a bit of a power metal element to it.
Good that James is singing mostly around his comfortable range, hence the less usage of effects on his voice.
Overall a pretty run of the mill song. I liked the Alien much more.
Still excited about the album, but i can't deny that Invisible Monster was a bit of a disappointment.
Agree. a weak song that did not give me anything, only small positive is the chorus which is a little bit catchy. No suprises anymore. Lets hope this is the weakest song on the album.
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I think the chorus is quite catchy and song overall has some interesting chord changes etc. A bit sad that they don't experiment a bit more to give the song something special. The intro also gave me SDOIT vibe. And to a certain degree the song do have SDOIT in it's DNA. It's not a direct song but rather builds on a dark vibe much like Misunderstood or Great Debate. However without the same fantastic delivery as both those songs. Anyway I don't fully get the negative stuff here. This is a well crafted, quite safe, song that will fit nicely into an album. I am sure the best stuff is yet to come ofc but why would we want them to spoil that for us?
Production is fantastic! Even better than D/T. Personally I think this is a pretty cool direction for DT. Both Alien and Invisible Monster have a distinct sound. Not a big focus on catchy chorus or similar but I can see how they both add up fantastic on the album.
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Maybe Dream Theater just doesn't excite me anymore, but they do sound bored. They don't even experiment with song structure anymore or even try anything even slightly outside the box. HIRE A PRODUCER THAT WILL PUSH YOU IN NEW DIRECTIONS!
I mean, they definitely don't need to reinvent the wheel, but what happened to the progressive in progressive metal. It's gone. They are in a rut, imo.
The Astonishing. Sure, it still sounds like Dream Theater (odd if it sounded like Slayer) but it was absolutely unexpected, in terms of structure (a rock opera that sounds like a musical, really?).
They did and had to endure a flood of shit.
Honestly, I don't expect anything like that ever again. On the contrary, I expect a band right in the comfort zone.
Since then we've had a record that doesn't take many risks and two new tracks that are also very traditional.
Maybe soon I'll find out I'm wrong, but I would be EXTREMELY SURPRISED.
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With the title I was expecting something really nasty in the vein of Dark Eternal Night. They went a different way with it, hahah. Expectations aside, I like the idea of a melodic, mid-tempo track. Unfortunately IM is just not a very good one.
I'm not too concerned though. I don't really care for the three singles from the last album and I like Alien quite a bit, so I'm still pretty psyched for this album!
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What compounds the problem of my listening experience for this song is that the three times I played this song, a song from D/T autoplays after and I can't help but feel more excited with the D/T song. Will listen to my iTunes later.
I wish D/T had the production of DT15 because I love the album especially Surrender to Reason!
D/T = Distance over Time
Noob mistake, I though DoT was Distance over Time. :blush
It's also.
Yes, I know, this lack of rigor in the nomenclature is terrible. :lol
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I don't know what kind of boredom you guys are hearing in the song, but I'm really enjoying the song on my first few listens. :tup
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?
No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females". :P
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As a resident Radiohead fan, I have to call BS on the earlier post in this thread about them. They never threw their guitars away and starting exclusively using keyboards and drum machines. That is a lie.
Anyway, back to the new DT!
Yea you're right. They didn't throw away their guitars, just their distortion pedals! ::)
Bodysnatchers would like a word with you
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Just got through my first listen. I definitely hear a Queensryche Mindcrime/Metropolis vibe to the main riff. The phrasings that JP uses kinda reminds me a little bit of The Mission. And of course, Metropolis, which apparently QR had an influence on that riff.
It wasn't mind blowing but I enjoyed it. I need to go back and listen again, but I remember liking the middle section quite a bit, especially with what JP was doing. I thought that was interesting.
Also nice to hear the vocal melodies relaxed. Just thinking of JLB singing it live.
It may have just been what I was listening to the song on (TV), but the vocals did seem a little low in the mix in places.
Overall, I like it.
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?
No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females". :P
(https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/database/cast/quark2-t.jpg)
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So I tried listening to this back to back with The Alien and the song works if its function is pacing the album with a more straightforward rocker after an aggressive heavy song. I guess my appreciation of this song would depend on how Answering the Call would sound. This may end up like how I felt about Now Comes The Rain by Fates Warning. On its own, does not work, but for the pacing of the full album, it does its job well.
I now get what is not working for me. The second verse. Extending the line to 9/4 does not sound right because the lines James is singing are too short.
Based on this and The Alien, I think the band is now consciously writing vocal melodies that are within James' comfortable range.
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I don't know what kind of boredom you guys are hearing in the song, but I'm really enjoying the song on my first few listens. :tup
This. Maybe i'm too much of a fanboy (I'm also think that TA is a musical masterpiece) but I like this kind of songwriting from DT.
All I hear is a well known DT signature. Not too catchy/cheesy catchy melody. A growing piece of music. Cant wait to hear the rest.
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Only one listen with low volume, I heard nice bits here and there but nothing amazing, I hope it'll be nicer at full blast.
I begin to be scared about what I read from people who already listened to this album, some said that the alien was less fresh and surprising than the others and the second single is boring compared to the alien...It's not like there was 13 songs on the album :D
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Yes which is why I'd prefer more actual songs than 'our new album is four 20 minute songs!' or whatever.
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As a resident Radiohead fan, I have to call BS on the earlier post in this thread about them. They never threw their guitars away and starting exclusively using keyboards and drum machines. That is a lie.
Anyway, back to the new DT!
Yea you're right. They didn't throw away their guitars, just their distortion pedals! ::)
That's also a lie :lol
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Love the intro. Really like that JR is restrained. Sonically it's awesome. However, I kept expecting the song to morph into something but it never did. Good song but not great. I'm sure it will grow with more spins.
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I just listened to the song once so my opinion might change, but I didn't hear anything that stands out. It's a pretty simple, radio-friendly song with a nice atmosphere. Definitely not what I want from DT, but I can sure live with a couple of such songs (my guess is that Transcending Time will be something similar). I won't hide my disappointment that not all of the songs on the album are crazy, but that was a pretty unrealistic expectation to begin with. I still expect for this to be the best DT release since ADTOE
It might be worth noting that this is the worst 2nd single since 2013 (Moment of Betrayal and Fall into the Light were much better), but The Alien was such a great song so it compensates
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I prefer The Alien.
Not a bad song, but I'm disappointed.
Disappointed because everything sounds the same.
Dream Theater remain my favorite band, but I guess they don't have a lot of ideas lately.
To be clear, I am afraid that we will no longer hear a Space Dye Vest, a Learning to Live, a Dance of Eternity ..
At this point, to change this deal, it takes a change of line up as soon as possible..
These two single are good, but nothing new...
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To be clear, I am afraid that we will no longer hear a Space Dye Vest, a Learning to Live, a Dance of Eternity ..
At this point, to change this deal, it takes a change of line up as soon as possible..
Or, you might consider to listen to something else entirely :)
Because you can be sure you won't hear new renditions of SDV, LtL or DoE, by the simple facts that those songs already exist and belong to certain eras of DT's life, we're talking about 20 to 30 years ago.
I do share the desire of wanting something that i really like from my favourite band, thing is it's almost impossible (i would actually say that the opposite would be very weird) that your, or anyone, tastes will always allign with those of the band. Most of long time fans usually stay with a band for nostalgic reason, and sometimes tend to think they like new albums and songs because of the emotional attachment to the band (i've been, and still am to a certain degree, one of those) . It's absolutely normal, like is normal to not liking a song, or more songs off an album, but that doesn't have to mean that a band is dead or need a change in line up. It's just a matter of finding ourself in the same spot, which can't always be the case.
Talking about the song, yep, i'd really want to like it, but i don't. It just doesn't say anything to me. I really hope at least some of the other 5 songs will.
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I'm a bit staggered by the the negative reviews here. This song is friggin AWESOME!!! I love everything about it, from the intro to the verses and a very catchy chorus. The guitar solos, drums, vocals, and everything else feels very inspired to me. I'm even more excited for the album now! :hat :metal
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I wonder when the music video will be released. From the trailer it looked good!
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It’s a decent track… I’m happy with it. Some fun stuff in the middle and the petrucci solo is pretty sweet.
The vocal melodies aren’t going to be what they used to be sadly but it’s a fun track.
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If this album ends up sounding a little uninspired then my guess about JP spreading himself too thin across 4 albums over 2 years may ring true.
Disappointing if it's not the "career highlight" level album that i've seen it touted as.
:)
This has been mostly one guy. We have no way of knowing who's actually heard what :lol
Tough crowd as expected. I have been listening to the album since mid August and I thoroughly love it. Its a kick ass DT album! If the band had to get an OK before they included songs on an album from here, there may ever release another one. 15th album and still going strong! What does everyone want from them?
My thoughts as well. I’ve learned to take anything I read on here with a grain of salt. I realize everyone has their own tastes and opinions, but there are more negative comments on this forum than on Facebook. And that’s sad!
You guys almost sound apologetic! People either like things or they don't. Personally, I've had too many bad experiences with pre-releases that I haven't even listened to either song yet (and won't). That's not a reflection of the band or the music, just that I want to experience the album in a way that I can make a fair comparison to other DT records and other contemporary releases. That is to say, I want to hear it on CD, in my car. Personally, I think some of the proclamations being made here are premature based on less than 24 horus listening to something on your computer, but that's me.
But at the end of the day, people are going to like or not, and questions like "what do you expect?" don't change that. What do I "expect"?I don't know that I "expect" anything, other than five guys doing something to the best of their abilities given the circumstances of 2021, but regardless; whether they meet MY expectations or not is up to ME.
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I wonder when the music video will be released. From the trailer it looked good!
It premieres on Youtube at 8:45 AM EDT (or 14:45 CEST)
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Maybe Dream Theater just doesn't excite me anymore, but they do sound bored. They don't even experiment with song structure anymore or even try anything even slightly outside the box. HIRE A PRODUCER THAT WILL PUSH YOU IN NEW DIRECTIONS!
I mean, they definitely don't need to reinvent the wheel, but what happened to the progressive in progressive metal. It's gone. They are in a rut, imo.
Thank you!!
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A quick listen this morning, though I'll hit it a couple more times later this morning.
I always say of lead singles that if this is my favorite song on the album, I won't be happy. It applies here. But I already know it won't be my favorite song because I've heard The Alien.
I don't find it boring at all. A bit standard but that's ok. James is still held back. I don't know why. Is it the production, the direction, the concern of him singing live. He is the difference maker. Use him to your advantage on these albums.
The guitar solo is nice and I love the little bit at 4:23.
There's a vocal line right before the chorus that is definitely reminiscent of Strange Deja Vu.
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As a resident Radiohead fan, I have to call BS on the earlier post in this thread about them. They never threw their guitars away and starting exclusively using keyboards and drum machines. That is a lie.
Anyway, back to the new DT!
But I notice you didn't argue with the concept that they are out of ideas! :) :) :)
Anyway, back to the new DT!
(As the resident Radiohead hater, I couldn't resist!)
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It was obvious Radiohead were out of ideas when Amnesiac came out.
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Man....I hope they start concentrating on the vocal melodies....just not a fan of them on these two songs. It is like they are an afterthough. Nothing wrong with Labrie's vocals...the melodies just don't catch me at all (the way they are written)
I like the start of the song until around 1:22...but then it ends up sounding like a B-Side
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I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement. Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.
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Man....I hope they start concentrating on the vocal melodies....just not a fan of them on these two songs. It is like they are an afterthough. Nothing wrong with Labrie's vocals...the melodies just don't catch me at all (the way they are written)
I like the start of the song...but then it ends up sounding like a B-Side
I agree, the melodies on both songs are quite terrible.
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Man....I hope they start concentrating on the vocal melodies....just not a fan of them on these two songs. It is like they are an afterthough. Nothing wrong with Labrie's vocals...the melodies just don't catch me at all (the way they are written)
I like the start of the song...but then it ends up sounding like a B-Side
I agree, the melodies on both songs are quite terrible.
If I’m not mistaken both songs are JLB songs so it’s no surprise to me that the vocal melodies are not spectacular. He’s written the odd decent vocal melody but most of his DT songs are not my favourite.
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The Alien is a James song, Invisible Monster is a John song.
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Man....I hope they start concentrating on the vocal melodies....just not a fan of them on these two songs. It is like they are an afterthough. Nothing wrong with Labrie's vocals...the melodies just don't catch me at all (the way they are written)
I like the start of the song...but then it ends up sounding like a B-Side
I agree, the melodies on both songs are quite terrible.
If I’m not mistaken both songs are JLB songs so it’s no surprise to me that the vocal melodies are not spectacular. He’s written the odd decent vocal melody but most of his DT songs are not my favourite.
Well, Medicate, At Wit's End, and Disappear have good vocal melodies, much more than decent. This song is also a Petrucci track, which I guessed from the lyrics.
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I think I like it, but DT really has no bad songs imo so I pretty much like it all. However, I don't see myself loving it and that is what makes an album stick around for me longer than a few weeks after its release. I have a feeling I'll play this album a ton after its released, but then go to other things and pull this one out sporadically.
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Maybe Dream Theater just doesn't excite me anymore, but they do sound bored. They don't even experiment with song structure anymore or even try anything even slightly outside the box. HIRE A PRODUCER THAT WILL PUSH YOU IN NEW DIRECTIONS!
I mean, they definitely don't need to reinvent the wheel, but what happened to the progressive in progressive metal. It's gone. They are in a rut, imo.
Thank you!!
In any case, both of you have been very vocal about your disliking DT for some years now. This doesn't come as a surprise. And it's not meant as a criticism, that's just the way it is. As someone else said, maybe you don't like DT anymore,and that's just fine.
B.Lee
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Just had my first few full listens. It wasn't as much of a disaster as I had feared and I think I need to give it a few more spins. For sure, this isn't a homerun, but I don't think it's horrible either. I get the criticism that it sounds underwhelming and to an extent it does. The 1:45 minutes after the guitar solo just meanders. To an extent the song as a whole feels like it goes nowhere, even though that isn't totally true-- the sections do build into the first chorus. I can't put my finger on why the song sounds like this but I think maybe that is what is causing some other listeners to think the band sounds bored, tired etc.
As with the Alien, which is obviously a totally different song, the vocal melody isn't strong. It's actually sorta weak. The chorus is a bit of an eyebrow-raiser. This is probably my biggest issue with the tune. I don't want to listen to this melody or chorus.
On a positive note, the production was great. I could clearly hear the drums and bass. JP's guitar technique hasn't shifted a bit, which is a super impressive feat given how long he's been doing this, and his tone is great (duh). Mangini sounds awesome too. Lastly, the band isn't doing anything new here, but the song is certainly different in mood from other Mangini era songs. I think that is a good thing.
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I saw a comment a few pages ago saying "It feels like it builds up to something but never gets there".
This is why singles aren't always a great idea, even though I know it's mandatory to appease the record label.
I tend to judge albums as a whole, and I feel like whatever it's "building up to" is Sleeping Giant.
Not that there will be repeated themes a la Far From Heaven/Breaking All Illusions, but that the relative softness of this song will be answered by a more heavy Sleeping Giant the next.
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Maybe Dream Theater just doesn't excite me anymore, but they do sound bored. They don't even experiment with song structure anymore or even try anything even slightly outside the box. HIRE A PRODUCER THAT WILL PUSH YOU IN NEW DIRECTIONS!
I mean, they definitely don't need to reinvent the wheel, but what happened to the progressive in progressive metal. It's gone. They are in a rut, imo.
Thank you!!
In any case, both of you have been very vocal about your disliking DT for some years now. This doesn't come as a surprise. And it's not meant as a criticism, that's just the way it is. As someone else said, maybe you don't like DT anymore,and that's just fine.
B.Lee
I have? Must have missed that.
I'm not a fan of ADTOE or TA, but DT12 is top 5 DT and I really loved D/T. Not quite sure what you're basing that assessment on.
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A similar story for me. I was totally underwhelmed after the first listen, but it has grown on me a little. Good song but not great.
I like "the serpent inside" section, and there's a hint of a melody, but then it doesn't really build up to a chorus. I'm just dying for a big old-fashioned catchy singalong chorus.
I have to say, JP's playing in the solo is fantastic - pinpoint laser accuracy. The overall sound/mix is excellent, everything seems well balanced.
We'll see where it sits in the overall flow of the album..
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Listened to the song again this morning, liked it better than yesterday but still don't dig it much. The vocals grew on me though, James sounds really cool!
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This song caught off guard... after all descriptions saying that the album is very energetic and relentless almost all the time, I didn't expect a song like this. But this isn't the problem to me. I didn't remember any other DT single that left me so... indifferent, maybe? And I've heard it 3 or 4 times, really strange. By the way, I totally LOVED The Alien.
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I think it's a good song, one that I will probably listen when I'm in the mood to listen the album in full v. going back to it. For a 6 minute songs it feels short, which is a good thing.
I think the highlight for me is JP solo: it never ceases to amaze me how melodic his solos are while being super technical. I don't mind the lack of a keyboard solo - I think JR shines in the background. I normally get bored of songs that over-rely on the chorus but this one is quite catchy and JLB nails it. The second verse flows a bit weird though. Let's see with time.
The intro/break before the solo reminded me of of PMU - like a hint of it rather than a copy of it. Given recent interviews I like this inspiration from their previous work approach. I take that over the 8V-SC "let's do a song that sounds like Muse" approach.
Both this and The Alien have done what they needed to do: I can't wait to listen to the full album in a month!
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It was obvious Radiohead were out of ideas when Amnesiac came out.
Radiohead were out of ideas when they named the band.
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Maybe Dream Theater just doesn't excite me anymore, but they do sound bored. They don't even experiment with song structure anymore or even try anything even slightly outside the box. HIRE A PRODUCER THAT WILL PUSH YOU IN NEW DIRECTIONS!
I mean, they definitely don't need to reinvent the wheel, but what happened to the progressive in progressive metal. It's gone. They are in a rut, imo.
Thank you!!
In any case, both of you have been very vocal about your disliking DT for some years now. This doesn't come as a surprise. And it's not meant as a criticism, that's just the way it is. As someone else said, maybe you don't like DT anymore,and that's just fine.
B.Lee
We love DT, but we hold them to a higher standard than some run-of-the-mill band.
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You fans really crack me up.
What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?
I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement. Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.
"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."
Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?
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Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.
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You fans really crack me up.
What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?
I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement. Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.
"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."
Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?
I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate. Seems others somewhat agree. I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT?
You fans crack me up too.
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The video is up on YouTube!
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Man....I hope they start concentrating on the vocal melodies....just not a fan of them on these two songs. It is like they are an afterthough. Nothing wrong with Labrie's vocals...the melodies just don't catch me at all (the way they are written)
I like the start of the song...but then it ends up sounding like a B-Side
I agree, the melodies on both songs are quite terrible.
If I’m not mistaken both songs are JLB songs so it’s no surprise to me that the vocal melodies are not spectacular. He’s written the odd decent vocal melody but most of his DT songs are not my favourite.
Well, Medicate, At Wit's End, and Disappear have good vocal melodies, much more than decent. This song is also a Petrucci track, which I guessed from the lyrics.
They’re hardly super catchy though, at least not to me anyway, he’s written some nice ballady type stuff but not single type material imo.
Anyway it seems like Petrucci wrote this one so I was wrong anyway. Just saw James was credited as a writer on Apple Music and he doesn’t usually get credited anymore unless he’s written the lyrics. The second half of the chorus is very similar to the very end of One Last Time too so I assumed it was JLB, I keep expecting to hear “His words I cannot hear” at the end of the chorus.
I’m enjoying the song and liked The Alien as well, just not totally blown away melodically by either of them. I’m pleased it’s not a million miles an hour as well. Was starting to get concerned with some people talking about it being relentless that every song would be in the same vein as The Alien.
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Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.
The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?
JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.
Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.
You fans really crack me up.
What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?
I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement. Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.
"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."
Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?
I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate. Seems others somewhat agree. I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT?
You fans crack me up too.
It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.
But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.
It's fascinating, how fans can do this.
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Upon first listen I dug most of the song. I find myself thinking "This part sounds just like ______" quite often though, and I find that distracting. I'll get over it in time.
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First impressions…..blah.
About a safe a song as DT has put out. I hear a vocal melody I’ve heard more than a few times throughout the years which is disappointing. Not much piqued my interest.
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The main instrumental melody has a Sacrificed Sons vibe, but more energetic... I also get a LTE's Another Dimension vibe in some parts.
Love the middle section around 2:24 - 3:05 and the harpischord sounds during the solo ROCKSSS
Great song!
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Sonically sounded great.....love the mix and sound of the first two songs. As far as the 'song' goes.....I was pretty bored with it really quick. I won't even say DT paint by numbers because I don't even think it got to that level. Curious as to why this song would have been chosen as a single to get people hyped for the album, but whatever. It may get 'better' over a few more listens but it's a big yawner for me right now.
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I mentioned earlier that my typical reaction to lead singles is that if it is my favorite song on the album, then I'm not going to be happy.
But with Invisible Monster, I'll say the opposite. If this is the worst song on the album, then I will be thrilled.
I'll take this over three tracks on DoT already.
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On a scale of 1-10, Invisible Monster is a 5. I've listened to it 4 times.
I've been a fan since Awake. You can always count on the musicianship of DT to be on point so no problems there. In fact, Mangini really seems to shine on these first 2 songs released.
However, the song just doesn't do it for me. It doesn't grab me. It's like "meh, that's good enough" and I never expected this from DT. Vocals seem uninspired and the melody is weak. If this is the radio-friendly song from the album, then so be it. To me, it feels forced. I'm curious to know in what order this song was written. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the last one written and it was thrown in there for potential commercial consumption. It's not a good song to sell DT to the masses. It's an automatic skip if I'm listening through the new album.
I like The Alien a little better but it sounds like a bunch of ideas thrown in a blender then they come back to the original theme at the end of the song.
So for me, the first 2 releases don't get me excited for the rest of the album.
I don't like being critical of DT because they are my favorite band. However, the reality is not living up to the expectation that's been hyped for this coming release.
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I guess I spoke too soon when I complained that you never see DT in any DT videos :-) Cool video and song.
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. If this is the radio-friendly song from the album, then so be it.
Why, at this point, would they try to make something "radio friendly?" They are not getting any radio airplay. Plus, this song isn't remotely "radio friendly."
I like it. Decent song. Nice video.
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Sonically sounded great.....love the mix and sound of the first two songs. As far as the 'song' goes.....I was pretty bored with it really quick. I won't even say DT paint by numbers because I don't even think it got to that level. Curious as to why this song would have been chosen as a single to get people hyped for the album, but whatever. It may get 'better' over a few more listens but it's a big yawner for me right now.
That's about where I'm at. It's definitely a song though.
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The only problem for me is I think this should have been the first single. As that, along the lines of OtBoA, Enemy Inside, Untethered Angel, it would have been fine and The Alien as the second single would seem like we were getting into the meat of it a little more. I like it but it's "first single" to me from a creative standpoint.
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The only problem for me is I think this should have been the first single. As that, along the lines of OtBoA, Enemy Inside, Untethered Angel, it would have been fine and The Alien as the second single would seem like we were getting into the meat of it a little more. I like it but it's "first single" to be from a creative standpoint.
The impact created by dropping a bomb like The Alien first is much bigger... Draws much more attention.
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Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.
The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?
JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.
Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.
the vocal melody is almost flat in the core note, there's no variation or modulation.....thats the reason a lot of people are saying the the song is boring....
Melody is not a matter of hight notes, but move across the chords, giving "color" to the song. And its all blank, no life....
My model to compare is DT itself.... listen how the vocal melodies were build and how it is now.... and said, the reason is sooooo boring is because the song has no life, the melodies does not give any feelings....
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The only problem for me is I think this should have been the first single. As that, along the lines of OtBoA, Enemy Inside, Untethered Angel, it would have been fine and The Alien as the second single would seem like we were getting into the meat of it a little more. I like it but it's "first single" to be from a creative standpoint.
I don't know about this - IM reminded more of Paralized than OtBoA. It's a good song for a single but I don't think this is what you want as the first taste of new music in 2 years. It's a fun song but the Alien got me much more hyped, which is what a single should do (particularly the first one)
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The only problem for me is I think this should have been the first single. As that, along the lines of OtBoA, Enemy Inside, Untethered Angel, it would have been fine and The Alien as the second single would seem like we were getting into the meat of it a little more. I like it but it's "first single" to be from a creative standpoint.
I don't know about this - IM reminded more of Paralized than OtBoA. It's a good song for a single but I don't think this is what you want as the first taste of new music in 2 years. It's a fun song but the Alien got me much more hyped, which is what a single should do (particularly the first one)
Sure - me too. But first singles tend to be safe. Which IM is. IM just sounds like a safe single to me, like the other lead singles. The Alien is more interesting just like, say, Outcry is more interesting than OtBoA.
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Not good. Also JP's lyrics don't do it for me
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I actually quite like it. It definitely didn’t take as much time to digest as The Alien for obvious reasons but I don’t see why it’s getting the hate it is. I think I listened to The Alien a bit too much when it first released so it’s hard to judge objectively but I think I do prefer The Alien. That said, it’s a cool song and I actually really liked the melodies, including the vocals.
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I honestly think if the lyrics were in a different language, such that they weren't hitting you squarely over the head, the song would be better
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I listened to it twice and I quite enjoy it. I like the somber vibe with the few small touches of more upbeat elements thrown here and there (like in the second verse).
About the melodies, I think the main melodic theme is quite nice and the vocals sound solid to me. I'll say though that I feel like the chorus starts strong (after one listen I found myself humming the "invisible mooooonsteeeeer" part) but the second half of the chorus melody feels like it's just there.
But overall, I quite enjoyed and I don't feel like the band feels bored or anything. So I'll consider myself lucky with that.
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If this album ends up sounding a little uninspired then my guess about JP spreading himself too thin across 4 albums over 2 years may ring true.
Disappointing if it's not the "career highlight" level album that i've seen it touted as.
:)
Exactly! Best ideas went to Terminal Velocity imho...
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Remember that interview that got posted last week where the band looked bored in it and like they wanted to be somewhere else? That is how they sound in this song. They sound bored. Hoping it gets better with subsequent listens, but I have rarely heard DT sound this bored in a song before. Feels like the cousin of A Rite of Passage, another boring tune.
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After only one listen on some crappy ear buds, I like The Alien more. It's lacking in the melody department.
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I actually quite like it. It definitely didn’t take as much time to digest as The Alien for obvious reasons but I don’t see why it’s getting the hate it is.
I'm with you on this. I said earlier in this thread that the negative reviews are staggering. This is a very impressive song and feels inspired to me, and quite excellent to be honest! :metal
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Remember that interview that got posted last week where the band looked bored in it and like they wanted to be somewhere else? That is how they sound in this song. They sound bored. Hoping it gets better with subsequent listens, but I have rarely heard DT sound this bored in a song before. Feels like the cousin of A Rite of Passage, another boring tune.
Agree, had the same thought about arop. Nevertheless, I am SURE the rest of the album will be interesting and good
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One thing to clarify is that there's a difference between the song being boring and the band sounding bored. I can totally see the song being boring as it feels like a staircase to nowhere, but I don't think DT sounds bored necessarily. The band sounds tight, MM sounds great, JP's solo sounds great and his alternate picking technique hasn't budged an inch. I totally get why people feel the band sounds like they're tired after releasing that low energy interview, but I think they sound totally fine...it's just that this song is a little meandering. It's a very odd choice for a single.
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I actually quite like it. It definitely didn’t take as much time to digest as The Alien for obvious reasons but I don’t see why it’s getting the hate it is.
I'm with you on this. I said earlier in this thread that the negative reviews are staggering. This is a very impressive song and feels inspired to me, and quite excellent to be honest! :metal
I'm with you guys. I think it's a straight ahead rocker which the last time I looked, it's still OK to write these kinds of songs. I liked it!
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Barely made it through this one. Doubt it'll get another spin from me.
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I really like the song. It kind of reminds me of being the album's Forsaken in that it is catchy, fun, and despite having a lot of things going on musically, sounds a lot more simple and straightforward than it is. Yet another really solid addition to the DT catalog. I can definitely see--and hear--why the band is excited about this album.
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Here are the 2 main rules to fully appreciate a new Dream Theater album:
1) don't listen to the singles before the full album comes out
2) don't bother about the reviews on the singles on the Internet, on DT forum in primis
I am fully compliant to the rule #1
I still like to read some reviews (which is a partial violation of rule #2) but I am prepared to the fact that 90% of the first reviews will be negative; it has little to do with the "quality of the song" itself, it's more a statistical bias linked to the people that tend to write comments on the web...
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I actually quite like it. It definitely didn’t take as much time to digest as The Alien for obvious reasons but I don’t see why it’s getting the hate it is. I think I listened to The Alien a bit too much when it first released so it’s hard to judge objectively but I think I do prefer The Alien. That said, it’s a cool song and I actually really liked the melodies, including the vocals.
This. Like, when was ever a DT single the most impressive song on the album? I think it's quite obvious to release the first real music video (and by first and real I mean one showing all of DT memebers playing/actual actors, and not just computer generated imagery) with a more straightforward, radio-friendly song.
I found it having a very strong and cohesive song structure which doesn't seem to "lose itself" derailing into long instumental passages that sound too different from the main motives and themes, musically speaking, of the whole song. No controversial opinions here, I LOVE when DT derails from the main song into instrumental madness, I'm speaking from the perspective of a random listener who is accustomed to the 'standard definition of music singles in 2021'.
This said, I found LaBrie's vocal performance very enjoyable and strong, he sounds confortable and full. I kind of wanted to hear more from Jordan but I'm hopeful he's gonna amaze me as usual, as I think these two singles (I still prefer the Alien, BTW) are nothing more than a taste of what the album could be giving us.
Judging by these two singles, I found LaBrie and Mangini a cut above the rest of the band which still remain great.
I find no reason to be doubtful or disappointed by now.
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I have a question that I might have asked before.
I'm seeing a decent amount of reactions to negative, or at least not-positive reviews of stuff here. Such as asking the person to go into detail about what EXACTLY they didn't like about the song, or to dismiss the opinion entirely because "people on the internet" and so forth.
Does this apply to positive reviews too? Does the person that says "This song is awesome!" have to then go into exactly what they loved about it? Do their biases get called into question? It seems that if you're not on the same page as people (such as myself) who didn't like the song (or other things), then there's a tendency to dismiss that person's opinion as not legitimate. I'm not sure that's fair.
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One thing that can be said for sure is that the reviews for this song are more mixed than for previous songs. I'd venture to say this song has gotten more negative reviews than any single released from TA, Dot. Not sure how far back it goes. Take that for what it may be
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The song is ok, my favorite parts are the intro and quieter mid-section. As with the first song, I love how the bass is sounding.
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For anyone who doesn't follow my transcription thread:
Dream Theater | Invisible Monster | Guitar Tab (https://youtu.be/vXfHZL4WeS8)
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I have a question that I might have asked before.
I'm seeing a decent amount of reactions to negative, or at least not-positive reviews of stuff here. Such as asking the person to go into detail about what EXACTLY they didn't like about the song, or to dismiss the opinion entirely because "people on the internet" and so forth.
Does this apply to positive reviews too? Does the person that says "This song is awesome!" have to then go into exactly what they loved about it? Do their biases get called into question? It seems that if you're not on the same page as people (such as myself) who didn't like the song (or other things), then there's a tendency to dismiss that person's opinion as not legitimate. I'm not sure that's fair.
Depends on the basis for negative opinion. When the criteria are dumb or meaningless (e.g., "the band sounds bored"), yeah, I think asking for an explanation as to what that even means is warranted. Dismissing or ignoring the trolls is also fine. And that is clearly different from someone saying they just don't like the song, which is a perfectly fine and valid opinion to have as well.
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I have a question that I might have asked before.
I'm seeing a decent amount of reactions to negative, or at least not-positive reviews of stuff here. Such as asking the person to go into detail about what EXACTLY they didn't like about the song, or to dismiss the opinion entirely because "people on the internet" and so forth.
Does this apply to positive reviews too? Does the person that says "This song is awesome!" have to then go into exactly what they loved about it? Do their biases get called into question? It seems that if you're not on the same page as people (such as myself) who didn't like the song (or other things), then there's a tendency to dismiss that person's opinion as not legitimate. I'm not sure that's fair.
Depends on the basis for negative opinion. When the criteria are dumb or meaningless (e.g., "the band sounds bored"), yeah, I think asking for an explanation as to what that even means is warranted. Dismissing or ignoring the trolls is also fine. And that is clearly different from someone saying they just don't like the song, which is a perfectly fine and valid opinion to have as well.
I like to have conversations about music. This song blows or this song is great are both valid opinions. But it doesn't make for very good conversation.
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I don't disagree, and I also think it's changing a bit of what I was saying.
People who simply said they didn't like the song are being asked (and have historically been asked) to defend that and explain it, while people who say they do like the song are never asked the same thing.
Trolls are trolls, but not every negative opinion is a troll. Any negative opinion HAS been questioned regarding bias, but very few positive opinions have been called out as being biased.
I feel like Stadler here, I'm just looking for consistency. You know?
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I don't disagree, and I also think it's changing a bit of what I was saying.
People who simply said they didn't like the song are being asked (and have historically been asked) to defend that and explain it, while people who say they do like the song are never asked the same thing.
Trolls are trolls, but not every negative opinion is a troll. Any negative opinion HAS been questioned regarding bias, but very few positive opinions have been called out as being biased.
I feel like Stadler here, I'm just looking for consistency. You know?
I understand your point. I got it. You're not wrong.
I timestamped a spot in the solo that I liked. An no one even asked me. ;D
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Just to add, it's ridiculously hard to stay fresh and original through decades of making art. Any bit of novelty by dt deserves highest praise. There's not much of that with this track, but again how many new ideas can one band have? I actually think the Alien is fresh and original which is why I'm stoked for the new record, to see where their genius took them this time. Not every song can be super good
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This one doesn't really do it for me, but The Alien was excellent. Normally the singles will be more straight-ahead like this, so I am not worried at all given what the first single was! There's always at least one simple radio-friendly tune on each album, it's ok!
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You fans really crack me up.
What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?
"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."
Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?
From my personnal point of view (not from the top of the world) :
-As a musician I want to be shaken and surprised
-As a DT fan for now around 22 years, there are some musical choices that can be disappointing, like feeling like they didn't gamble or take enough risk, to get out of the already used things.
It's SUPER hard to explain, but in my position, a catchy song of 6 minutes with a super basic intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/solo/chorus/outro structure etc...Is disappointing.
And that doesn't mean that they aren't geniuses and that riffs/melodies and solos aren't creamy and good !
I prefer a 12 minutes song that sounds like 3-4 songs merged, with no obvious chorus.
I mean if all the songs were structured like metropolis pt1/a change of season/dance of eternity etc...I'd just climax :D
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I don't disagree, and I also think it's changing a bit of what I was saying.
People who simply said they didn't like the song are being asked (and have historically been asked) to defend that and explain it, while people who say they do like the song are never asked the same thing.
Trolls are trolls, but not every negative opinion is a troll. Any negative opinion HAS been questioned regarding bias, but very few positive opinions have been called out as being biased.
I feel like Stadler here, I'm just looking for consistency. You know?
I understand your point. I got it. You're not wrong.
I timestamped a spot in the solo that I liked. An no one even asked me. ;D
Oh sorry, my post was directed at Bosk. I think you snuck in right before I hit send.
-emoticon of dude shaking fist that I don't know the code for-
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You guys almost sound apologetic! People either like things or they don't. Personally, I've had too many bad experiences with pre-releases that I haven't even listened to either song yet (and won't). That's not a reflection of the band or the music, just that I want to experience the album in a way that I can make a fair comparison to other DT records and other contemporary releases. That is to say, I want to hear it on CD, in my car. Personally, I think some of the proclamations being made here are premature based on less than 24 horus listening to something on your computer, but that's me.
But at the end of the day, people are going to like or not, and questions like "what do you expect?" don't change that. What do I "expect"?I don't know that I "expect" anything, other than five guys doing something to the best of their abilities given the circumstances of 2021, but regardless; whether they meet MY expectations or not is up to ME.
Just adding the bold part makes you more wise than half the internet. :lol
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I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement. Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.
I’m sorry to hear that. But you can’t force yourself to like it. Hearing the album from start to finish is a different experience as this is how I heard it. You may feel the same, you may not. It’s like judging a movie based on 2 scenes, where if you watch it start to finish it makes more sense and you enjoy it. This is how I feel about this album.
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Am I wrong or is that a picture of Corey Taylor on the wall?
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You fans really crack me up.
What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?
"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."
Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?
From my personnal point of view (not from the top of the world) :
-As a musician I want to be shaken and surprised
-As a DT fan for now around 22 years, there are some musical choices that can be disappointing, like feeling like they didn't gamble or take enough risk, to get out of the already used things.
It's SUPER hard to explain, but in my position, a catchy song of 6 minutes with a super basic intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/solo/chorus/outro structure etc...Is disappointing.
And that doesn't mean that they aren't geniuses and that riffs/melodies and solos aren't creamy and good !
I prefer a 12 minutes song that sounds like 3-4 songs merged, with no obvious chorus.
I mean if all the songs were structured like metropolis pt1/a change of season/dance of eternity etc...I'd just climax :D
Now that's a detailed explanation.
I feel like DT have found their comfort zone after basically reinventing songs. It's quite nice hearing them grab influences from their past and incorporating them into something different, it's like modifying a recipe or more updating the furniture with new furniture, it's still a couch but newer.
So I myself am not expecting DT to make a song that is new, or shakes me or surprises me. As a musician I tend not to analyze the music theory as I do not know enough about it to analyze it. But also, if I did understand musical theory more, I would incorporate that knowledge to explain why they decided to use that progression, chord choice, whatever, as a means to portray an emotion that vibes with the lyrics.
To me, I analyze songs differently than how most analyze songs.
I have many reasons for enjoying songs. And what I enjoy about this song is how much is actually going on and it's so smooth that it sounds like they're playing it safe.
I agree with Bosk though about Forsaken, I do not really enjoy it but I do understand the reasons for it's structure and it works well, especially when I compare it to Static-X Cold and how that song was used on a soundtrack for a movie about Vampires.
This one has that Paralyzed feel mixed with Forsakens simplicity.
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Am I wrong or is that a picture of Corey Taylor on the wall?
Yes, yes it is.
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I think it is a good song - although it follows a regular/format, its catchy and has a nice atmosphere, and the production is stellar. I do think that the song will make much more sense in the context of the album, rather than a stand alone track. E.g if DT released say Spirit Carries On on Scenes, that wouldn’t tell much of the album as well, and probably result in some negative reactions as a single, yet in terms of that albums pacing it fits perfectly. Sometimes I wish bands would not release anything before an album so that the element of cohersion would remain, but that is just romantic nostalgia I guess
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Am I wrong or is that a picture of Corey Taylor on the wall?
Yes, yes it is.
That's so random, but also a missed opportunity. Corey could have provided legit backing vocals representing the monster, and he wouldn't have sounded like an angry New Yorker trying to intimidate a baby.
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The fact that glaser is saying the album should be appreciated as a whole is good news imo. When I first heard dot I thought "this is a special album", but now no longer. It's so hard to predict how music will age. At the moment, I'm feeling as though Alien is better than any song on Dot, but again that might be novelty
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?
No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females". :P
I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny :blush
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Of course there are exceptions - but in my opinion - when ROCK bands start using keyboards instead of guitars - it usually means they've run out of ideas.
you ever listen to Rush's Power Windows, my dude?
also this song is buns.
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?
No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females". :P
I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny :blush
With apologies to the ladies of this forum - I thought yours was a unique perspective.
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Of course there are exceptions - but in my opinion - when ROCK bands start using keyboards instead of guitars - it usually means they've run out of ideas.
you ever listen to Rush's Power Windows, my dude?
You just made K-boy's point.
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Of course there are exceptions - but in my opinion - when ROCK bands start using keyboards instead of guitars - it usually means they've run out of ideas.
you ever listen to Rush's Power Windows, my dude?
You just made K-boy's point.
No he didn't. Besides, K-boy dislikes Rush.
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I don't disagree, and I also think it's changing a bit of what I was saying.
People who simply said they didn't like the song are being asked (and have historically been asked) to defend that and explain it, while people who say they do like the song are never asked the same thing.
Trolls are trolls, but not every negative opinion is a troll. Any negative opinion HAS been questioned regarding bias, but very few positive opinions have been called out as being biased.
I feel like Stadler here, I'm just looking for consistency. You know?
I understand your point. I got it. You're not wrong.
I timestamped a spot in the solo that I liked. An no one even asked me. ;D
Oh sorry, my post was directed at Bosk. I think you snuck in right before I hit send.
-emoticon of dude shaking fist that I don't know the code for-
:getoffmylawn:
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Of course there are exceptions - but in my opinion - when ROCK bands start using keyboards instead of guitars - it usually means they've run out of ideas.
you ever listen to Rush's Power Windows, my dude?
You just made K-boy's point.
No he didn't. Besides, K-boy dislikes Rush.
PowerWindows Man...you're timing is impeccable. Must've heard the call!
(https://i.imgflip.com/28n5ln.jpg)
(https://imgflip.com/i/28n5ln)
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:lol
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A couple of listens in...I think it's a good song, not too exciting perhaps, but quite pleasing to the ears.
I like the main melodic "theme" (first played by the keys under the initial riff, then reprised by JP's guitar later in the song). Another highlight is the first pre-chorus (if you can call it that), with the change of pace.
I'd have to agree with the sentiment that the chorus melody is not the greatest - it starts off well with "Invisible mooonster"...then I don't know...the melody doesn't quite resolve or go anywhere super-interesting
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My initial reaction to this song is pretty good. I'm sure additional spins will shed some more light.
What compounds the problem of my listening experience for this song is that the three times I played this song, a song from D/T autoplays after and I can't help but feel more excited with the D/T song. Will listen to my iTunes later.
I wish D/T had the production of DT15 because I love the album especially Surrender to Reason!
D/T = Distance over Time
Noob mistake, I though DoT was Distance over Time. :blush
Department of Transportation :p
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Glasser - is Invisible Monster the darkest tune on the album?
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After a couple of listens, it's a decent track. I like the intro, but nothing really jumps out and wows me. I like the Alien better though.
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Heard Invisible Monster 5 times now, solid song that gets better on each listen, but has a lower ceiling than the Alien (which grew to being an awesome song in my opinion).
I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.
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Not a bad song. just stock and trade DT.
But i appear to be in the minority in that i adored The Alien.
this album might be like d/t which took eons to grow on me. i could not warm up to it for the longest time. love it now.
we'll see.
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I feel like reviews for the alien have been largely positive
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I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.
Sometimes ot is hard for me to ignore such sentiment on a fan forum. For me it is fine to dislike or share what we like or love. For me...DT has a special place in my life and I easily can put songs aside which I dont like without arguing. Im fond that I have the opportunity to embrace new music from the band and visit concerts enjoying music with the band I love. I never, never or gonna judge their effort to bring us new stuff. I feel privileged to have such...
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oh no
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I had no next to no emotional response to IM. The major key shift in the middle was a nice break from the rest of the song and created some interest. I felt like they were trying out some arrangements from SFAM from time to time.
The lyrics are very plain and don't interest me.
Plodding tempo.
Good production.
Really like The Alien. Hard miss for me, this one.
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I had no next to no emotional response to IM. The major key shift in the middle was a nice break from the rest of the song and created some interest. I felt like they were trying out some arrangements from SFAM from time to time.
The lyrics are very plain and don't interest me.
Plodding tempo.
Good production.
Really like The Alien. Hard miss for me, this one.
Agree with all
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I had no next to no emotional response to IM. The major key shift in the middle was a nice break from the rest of the song and created some interest. I felt like they were trying out some arrangements from SFAM from time to time.
The lyrics are very plain and don't interest me.
Plodding tempo.
Good production.
Really like The Alien. Hard miss for me, this one.
Agree with all
also agree.
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I don't dislike the song by any means, but it didn't knock my socks off and take ownership of my soul either. I'm curious to hear how it sounds within the context of the entire album. By itself, it's fine, but I could totally see it sounding stronger in the right context.
One thing I will say is that the band is between a rock and a hard place. Only two albums ago, they released potentially the weirdest album of their career, and a lot of fans got mad because it was too different. Now they're receiving criticism for playing it a bit too safe. It's a tough balancing act to pull off this deep into a career.
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I wasn't very heavy on the forum during TA but I'm shocked to hear it got negative reactions. Especially after the live performance they gave it... Just incredible
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Heard Invisible Monster 5 times now, solid song that gets better on each listen, but has a lower ceiling than the Alien (which grew to being an awesome song in my opinion).
I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.
I don't want to start something here, but it's pretty off-putting to see those "rightful opinions" not necessarily treated as "rightful" (it shoudln't be "staggering" that someone not like the song; it happens). As Adami said, I don't see a lot of "please explain that" when the positives are overblown and sometimes not all that well articulated. Everyone that I've seen has been very respectful in articulating their reaction to the song.
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So I only listened to The Alien once because I didn’t want to burn out before the album came out. I liked that it was really challenging on the first listen, and even though I had a tough time wrapping my head around it, it felt like it had all the makings of a great “grower”
But this new one just seemed really boring.
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I don't dislike the song by any means, but it didn't knock my socks off and take ownership of my soul either. I'm curious to hear how it sounds within the context of the entire album. By itself, it's fine, but I could totally see it sounding stronger in the right context.
One thing I will say is that the band is between a rock and a hard place. Only two albums ago, they released potentially the weirdest album of their career, and a lot of fans got mad because it was too different. Now they're receiving criticism for playing it a bit too safe. It's a tough balancing act to pull off this deep into a career.
Well it depends, are the critics of one approach also critizing the other? (name by name that is) - if that's the case I agree with you. If we are talking based on various opinions then it's the classic "you can't please everyone" scenario. I think it's more of the latter. It's easier/more common to voice negativity online IMO (not that there is anything wrong with not liking the song).
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Listened to it again. yea this is the kind of shorter song DT could fart out in their sleep.
again not bad and i'm not complaining.......just kinda boring. and often i grow to like songs once i hear the album so reserving proper judgement
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I like it.
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It took a few listens to really like this song.
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After a few more spins, I think it's a just OK tune and I stand by my criticism that it feels like it snakes around and doesn't go anywhere, and that the vocal melodies (chorus especially, where the harmonic choices are a bit odd) are weak.
Not sure how this song would work in a live setting....seems like something you play during intermission.
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OK, after one listen, I didn't care for it.
After seeing the video with the band in action, I like it more, but still find it a little boring.
I am glad that they set the song in a singable key for LaBrie. But the melodies are not exciting for me.
I really like the breakdown into the guitar solo. Those are great. But the actual verses and choruses seem a little lackluster to me. Again, though, that's over 2 listens.
This feels like something I would have expected as a lead single. Or not included on the album at all. Either way.
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I also felt that the vocal melodies weren't strong enough...BUT, I found myself humming the chorus a few times today.
So I think, ultimately, there's a quality that's a bit endearing.
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"Invisible monster, always felt but never seen
Unwelcome presence refusing to leave"
Finally, a song about my farts
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Listened to it a few times now and watched the music video and it’s fine. It’s not going to crack my top 20 DT songs but I like it more than I did Untethered Angel when that came out. I did feel that lacked any spark but grew to think it was ok. This is better and JLB sounds much better on this, not going for too much.
I would say two solid singles but nothing to indicate that we’re about to get a classic album. They haven’t bumped up my excitement for the album but haven’t killed it either.
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Listened to it a few times now and watched the music video and it’s fine. It’s not going to crack my top 20 DT songs but I like it more than I did Untethered Angel when that came out. I did feel that lacked any spark but grew to think it was ok. This is better and JLB sounds much better on this, not going for too much.
I would say two solid singles but nothing to indicate that we’re about to get a classic album. They haven’t bumped up my excitement for the album but haven’t killed it either.
I agree.
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Ok. First, I like it better than The Alien. And IM should've been the first single. It has DT elements and is radiofriendly.
The first thing I like it about the first verse of vocal melodies is just amazing. It's James' safe zone for sure but it's just different and it sounds so cool but second verse is so PullMeUnder-ish and lost the originality. I like chorus. Catchy and memorable vocals. Lyrics are different matter and it seems John is not good at it, has never been for me except one or two songs.
Overall, I really like it.
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After a few more spins, I think it's a just OK tune and I stand by my criticism that it feels like it snakes around and doesn't go anywhere, and that the vocal melodies (chorus especially, where the harmonic choices are a bit odd) are weak.
Not sure how this song would work in a live setting....seems like something you play during intermission.
I think it would translate quite well live, and I hope they play it loud and proud!
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Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.
The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?
JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.
Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.
You fans really crack me up.
What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?
I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement. Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.
"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."
Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?
I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate. Seems others somewhat agree. I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT?
You fans crack me up too.
It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.
But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.
It's fascinating, how fans can do this.
It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release. Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome. Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?
I'm allowed to not like it. And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.
What do I want from them? A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions. Something more melodically enticing too.
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I personally have a little constrained feelings about that song. It's nice, so nice, melodic, but so simple, so predictable with tons of 'dt heard moments before'
Middle section somewhere between 2,20' and 3' is pretty good.
Production/sound is on high level.
I hope it'll work like UA on DoT to me, my least favourite song on it.
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Weird how people see things so differently, but that's opinions for you. I really liked this one. Some interesting harmony, JLB is right in his comfort zone (which is a good thing for me), nice chorus, and the song is well written as it's exactly as long as it needs to be and is not overwrought.
It actually felt pretty fresh to me and it clicked with me far quicker than The Alien did.
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I enjoyed it quite a bit more than The Alien, which has still not really connected for me.
Good, straightforward rocker, with just enough spice in both the playing and the textural stuff. Reminds me of A Right of Passage but with stronger melodies (for me), or Pull Me Under (though slightly less catchy).
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It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release. Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome. Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?
I'm allowed to not like it. And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.
What do I want from them? A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions. Something more melodically enticing too.
Wait, they don't give a shit about their music? Wow....
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I don't dislike the song by any means, but it didn't knock my socks off and take ownership of my soul either. I'm curious to hear how it sounds within the context of the entire album. By itself, it's fine, but I could totally see it sounding stronger in the right context.
One thing I will say is that the band is between a rock and a hard place. Only two albums ago, they released potentially the weirdest album of their career, and a lot of fans got mad because it was too different. Now they're receiving criticism for playing it a bit too safe. It's a tough balancing act to pull off this deep into a career.
Well it depends, are the critics of one approach also critizing the other? (name by name that is) - if that's the case I agree with you. If we are talking based on various opinions then it's the classic "you can't please everyone" scenario. I think it's more of the latter. It's easier/more common to voice negativity online IMO (not that there is anything wrong with not liking the song).
I think we're basically on the same page. It's true that you can't please everyone. I do think, however, that with Dream Theater, they're under a little extra pressure because their fanbase is so passionate.
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Alright, now that I’ve had a few listens to digest this, I can honestly say, given then tone on this thread, I’ve gone from pleasantly surprised to totally impressed with this song.
Random thoughts:
—overall, this song reminds me a lot of ‘Paralyzed’ in that it’s a tight, concise rocker with an incredibly strong chorus.
—both the first and second verse have super interesting vocal melodies.
—speaking of verses, there’s one line in particular, about three quarters through the second verse, that totally catches my ear in the same way the “dreams are shaking set sirens waking” line from ‘Surrounded’ does... I love when a vocal line totally goes unison with a guitar line.
—as others have mentioned, this just cements that this record is going to ‘sound’ amazing
—I really dig the Mangini fill that opens the track
—JP’s solo, especially the classical sounding portion, is pretty awesome. The man never ceases to amaze
—James sounds great here. I love how full his voice sounds on both of these tracks
—finally, based on its placement, I really think that this song is going to serve as a nice ‘breather’
All in all, the song has me all the more excited for the record, so I consider it a success on all fronts.
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This song reminds me of Burning My Soul, which is one song I would consider if I were to be frank about it, boring.
But, I also do enjoy Burning My Soul from time to time and I think it's an excellent live song. I would also hope that this song will sound way better live than the studio, which is how I felt about Paralyzed, a song from D/T I don't listen to often.
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After listening to it again, I actually think the music is good, but the vocal timbre, volume and verse melody is what makes me not like the song
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One listen in (just now) and this might seriously be one of the most boring, lifeless DT tracks ever.
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oh also totally just got the Queensryche call ... Operation Mindcrime!
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I have a question that I might have asked before.
I'm seeing a decent amount of reactions to negative, or at least not-positive reviews of stuff here. Such as asking the person to go into detail about what EXACTLY they didn't like about the song, or to dismiss the opinion entirely because "people on the internet" and so forth.
Does this apply to positive reviews too? Does the person that says "This song is awesome!" have to then go into exactly what they loved about it? Do their biases get called into question? It seems that if you're not on the same page as people (such as myself) who didn't like the song (or other things), then there's a tendency to dismiss that person's opinion as not legitimate. I'm not sure that's fair.
I have always noticed this trend online in general. If you love something - people want an essay on why - and try to change your mind.
If you hate something - that's fine.
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I dig it...the intro delay, the main riff, the fast part, the breakdown, sounds fine to me!
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One listen in (just now) and this might seriously be one of the most boring, lifeless DT tracks ever.
How dare you!
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That was the most OK Dream Theater song I have ever heard.
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I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.
I get what you are saying, but this is not a FB fan page where any and all criticism is shut down and deleted. ;) We Dream Theater fans are usually pretty open about our opinions on their music. If we love it, we will gush about it. If we do not it, we will say it. Gotta take the good with the bad. :tup :tup
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I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.
I get what you are saying, but this is not a FB fan page where any and all criticism is shut down and deleted. ;) We Dream Theater fans are usually pretty open about our opinions on their music. If we love it, we will gush about it. If we do not it, we will say it. Gotta take the good with the bad. :tup :tup
This. I don't know why people here are shocked with some negative options on it.
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I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.
I get what you are saying, but this is not a FB fan page where any and all criticism is shut down and deleted. ;) We Dream Theater fans are usually pretty open about our opinions on their music. If we love it, we will gush about it. If we do not it, we will say it. Gotta take the good with the bad. :tup :tup
I wonder if this is unique to dt. Incidentally I remember looking a few years back and on first approximation dt has the most active forum of any modern band. If someone knows otherwise please let me know. It would make good sense though...
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Anyone else pictures James singing "Big Chungus" at the end of the second chorus? About halfway through the song.
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Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.
The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?
JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.
Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.
You fans really crack me up.
What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?
I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement. Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.
"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."
Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?
I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate. Seems others somewhat agree. I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT?
You fans crack me up too.
It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.
But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.
It's fascinating, how fans can do this.
It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release. Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome. Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?
I'm allowed to not like it. And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.
What do I want from them? A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions. Something more melodically enticing too.
Not liking it is totally fine. I myself didn't like Paralyzed when D/T came out, and I'm happy they replaced it with FITL when they came to my city. Now, to say that the song is uninspired, and sounds like it the band is going through the motions and not giving a shit sounds to me like a way of saying:
"I am unispired when I listen to it. I'm going through the motions when I listen to it. I don't give a shit about it"
I'm sure the band didn't feel this way when writing the song otherwise it wouldn't have made it to the album.
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I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.
I get what you are saying, but this is not a FB fan page where any and all criticism is shut down and deleted. ;) We Dream Theater fans are usually pretty open about our opinions on their music. If we love it, we will gush about it. If we do not it, we will say it. Gotta take the good with the bad. :tup :tup
I wonder if this is unique to dt. Incidentally I remember looking a few years back and on first approximation dt has the most active forum of any modern band. If someone knows otherwise please let me know. It would make good sense though...
I can't explain it, but I think it helps that DT has a sound that appeals to rock fans from various circles. Hard rock fans, prog fans, metal fans, math rock fans, etc. Meanwhile, if you go to a Yes or Neal Morse forum, I would imagine 95% of the fans at them are predominantly prog fans. If you go to a Metallica or Iron Maiden forum, most would likely be predominantly metal fans. And so on and so forth. All generally speaking of course. Because of their sound and style, Dream Theater has managed to grab fans from many different areas.
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I have to say that I've come around a bit with the song. It's quite fun with some interesting parts, and it's grown a bit after a few listens
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Some words from JP on IM: “It was written after we’d written a bunch of material. A lot of the music was super energetic and upbeat, tempo-wise. [Drummer] Mike [Mangini] suggested we do something a little different though. So, we started working on a more mid-tempo song. The hook, riff, and melody changed so naturally. I equate it to ‘Pull Me Under’ back in the day where we’d just start playing, something would come out, and we’d be, like, ‘Whoa, that’s cool.’ There’s a serendipitous moment where it happens. Lyrically, it’s about how anxiety plagues people. It’s like there’s an invisible monster beating you. You don’t see it, but it’s haunting you all of the time.”
https://www.loadedradio.com/dream-theater-release-the-music-video-for-invisible-monster/
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People also forget that while music is the bands passion, it's also their job. Not every piece of music every single band in the world puts out is a Picasso each time. I'm sure they don't think that either.
We all have periods at work where we struggle and "go through the motions', what's different in a situation with a big band like DT?
They sound dull and lifeless here. I'm sorry, that's my opinion. I'm also dull and lifeless however.
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I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.
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My largest fear is that this song is going to take a spot in the set list away from any of the other 40 plus songs I’d prefer to see and hear in its place. IMO this is not a song that is concert worthy.
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People also forget that while music is the bands passion, it's also their job. Not every piece of music every single band in the world puts out is a Picasso each time. I'm sure they don't think that either.
We all have periods at work where we struggle and "go through the motions', what's different in a situation with a big band like DT?
They sound dull and lifeless here. I'm sorry, that's my opinion. I'm also dull and lifeless however.
No one should ever have to defend any opinion. Some people dig it some don’t, tastes, opinions and expectations vary. However, what’s dull and lifeless to you is fully enjoyable to me. I never judge anyone on their opinion. I’m sure you want to like it but it doesn’t do anything for you. This forum would be phony and boring if EVERYONE agreed on everything. :)
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Other than raw dog this has to be the poorest reception a new dt song has gotten in recent memory. Very interesting. I'm still 100% hopeful about the album. I expect it will be better than dot
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I can see why the track can feel lifeless, the first time it went by almost unnoticed, track didn’t impress right away. But I do think the song’s instrumental theme is totally killer. Love that vibe.
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My largest fear is that this song is going to take a spot in the set list away from any of the other 40 plus songs I’d prefer to see and hear in its place. IMO this is not a song that is concert worthy.
Your largest fear is someone else’s biggest hope.
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People also forget that while music is the bands passion, it's also their job. Not every piece of music every single band in the world puts out is a Picasso each time. I'm sure they don't think that either.
We all have periods at work where we struggle and "go through the motions', what's different in a situation with a big band like DT?
They sound dull and lifeless here. I'm sorry, that's my opinion. I'm also dull and lifeless however.
No one should ever have to defend any opinion. Some people dig it some don’t, tastes, opinions and expectations vary. However, what’s dull and lifeless to you is fully enjoyable to me. I never judge anyone on their opinion. I’m sure you want to like it but it doesn’t do anything for you. This forum would be phony and boring if EVERYONE agreed on everything. :)
Thanks mate. I'm glad people are liking it and I'm not judging anyone else for liking it either. Of course I want to like it, but wasn't keen on the Alien either.
I'll see how it plays out in the album. It might work a lot better.
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I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.
While that probably shouldn't be a factor, I feel the same way.
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I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.
While that probably shouldn't be a factor, I feel the same way.
Like I said before. I have seen the full movie without seeing a scene or trailer. I love it, but if you have only seen 2 scenes I understand why the movie isn’t doing it for you…… YET.
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Some words from JP on IM: “It was written after we’d written a bunch of material. A lot of the music was super energetic and upbeat, tempo-wise. [Drummer] Mike [Mangini] suggested we do something a little different though. So, we started working on a more mid-tempo song. The hook, riff, and melody changed so naturally. I equate it to ‘Pull Me Under’ back in the day where we’d just start playing, something would come out, and we’d be, like, ‘Whoa, that’s cool.’ There’s a serendipitous moment where it happens. Lyrically, it’s about how anxiety plagues people. It’s like there’s an invisible monster beating you. You don’t see it, but it’s haunting you all of the time.”
https://www.loadedradio.com/dream-theater-release-the-music-video-for-invisible-monster/
That's great to know, because the song does feel that sort of way with anxiety. It feels like it wants to be released and explore more, but something is preventing that from happening.
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My largest fear is that this song is going to take a spot in the set list away from any of the other 40 plus songs I’d prefer to see and hear in its place. IMO this is not a song that is concert worthy.
Your largest fear is someone else’s biggest hope.
👏👏 :lol
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People also forget that while music is the bands passion, it's also their job. Not every piece of music every single band in the world puts out is a Picasso each time. I'm sure they don't think that either.
We all have periods at work where we struggle and "go through the motions', what's different in a situation with a big band like DT?
They sound dull and lifeless here. I'm sorry, that's my opinion. I'm also dull and lifeless however.
I am sorry you feel dull and lifeless. :heart Do you perhaps have an Invisible Monster?
Aside from that. We were at a Megadeth concert recently and did the VIP. They sat there with microphones and answered questions. One was "how do you keep the material new, interesting and fresh after so long?" Mustaine says, "I don't know, all the good riffs have been used."
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This might be true. Look at the progression of art over time... More and more abstract until it's just a blank canvas. Art always evolves and when the same form or medium is used there's less room for innovation of course
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Clearly this is all DT has to offer. Do you remember how blown away they were when they completed the recording and JP and JR had a conversation on how special they felt on what they had created?
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The alien is a masterpiece to my ears. They've still got it, and then some. The striking bit is when you listen to IM and alien back to back!
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After listening to it again, I actually think the music is good, but the vocal timbre, volume and verse melody is what makes me not like the song
I think that's what I'm feeling as well, does it sound like the lyrics and lyrical melodies were done by a 12 year old, it's just really simple and kind of stupid. As someone else said, it's so predictable.
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Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.
The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?
JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.
Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.
You fans really crack me up.
What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?
I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement. Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.
"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."
Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?
I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate. Seems others somewhat agree. I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT?
You fans crack me up too.
It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.
But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.
It's fascinating, how fans can do this.
It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release. Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome. Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?
I'm allowed to not like it. And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.
What do I want from them? A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions. Something more melodically enticing too.
Not liking it is totally fine. I myself didn't like Paralyzed when D/T came out, and I'm happy they replaced it with FITL when they came to my city. Now, to say that the song is uninspired, and sounds like it the band is going through the motions and not giving a shit sounds to me like a way of saying:
"I am unispired when I listen to it. I'm going through the motions when I listen to it. I don't give a shit about it"
I'm sure the band didn't feel this way when writing the song otherwise it wouldn't have made it to the album.
Alright, I'll bite.
The band perhaps didn't feel like they were going through the motions when they wrote and recorded this song, but therein lies the problem (at least for people like myself or Wolfking or Elite). From an outside perspective it sure as hell sounds like they are going through the motions just to pump out a song. Which is why it sounds uninspired and like they stopped caring about writing captivating music that excites the listener. They need an outside listener (aka a real producer) to reign them in and at the same time force them to push in new directions, try new things (and I don't mean pull a 180 and write a country album (although Devin Townsend did that and it was amazing)). The band is basically writing and recording in a musical echo chamber at this point.
I'll provide two examples: First, I was listening to my music library on shuffle today while driving and Lie came on. Now that is (still) an exciting song to listen to. It has interesting arrangements, slick solos, great vocal melodies that make you want to sing along. What an awesome song! And basically every song on Awake (once I thought about it) is just as interesting. Invisible Monster gave me none of that excitement, even on subsequent listens.
Second: a great example of a band that can excite with every album is Between the Buried and Me. Whenever they release a new album you just know it will be chock full of exciting and surprising twists and turns, while still being melodic and memorable. When I listened to their new Colors II album that was just released for the first time I had the biggest grin on my face throughout the entire hour+ runtime. The 2 new DT songs had me falling asleep part way in...
Granted, if people like the new songs, that's fine. We are all entitled to like or not like whatever we want, but people are asking for why we don't like the new songs, so I figured I'd jump in with an explanation....
Also, I do acknowledge that DT tried something new with The Astonishing and I was on board with it for a while, but it didn't age well for me. However I do give them props for trying something different there. However, DT12 and D/T both fell flat for me.
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Will be checking out BTBAM
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I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.
While that probably shouldn't be a factor, I feel the same way.
Like I said before. I have seen the full movie without seeing a scene or trailer. I love it, but if you have only seen 2 scenes I understand why the movie isn’t doing it for you…… YET.
Your excitement for the album is one thing keeping me interested, so thank you.
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Puppies, brilliantly said, agree with every word. Thanks for the back up too haha.
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What compounds the problem of my listening experience for this song is that the three times I played this song, a song from D/T autoplays after and I can't help but feel more excited with the D/T song. Will listen to my iTunes later.
I wish D/T had the production of DT15 because I love the album especially Surrender to Reason!
D/T = Distance over Time
Noob mistake, I though DoT was Distance over Time. :blush
It is. There is no ' / ' in the album title.
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Disliking some music is no big deal. I can make a list of DT songs that I don't like or hate:
Lie, Just Let Me Breathe, Burning My Soul, You Not Me, all TOT (except Vacant), Sacrificed Sons, Forsaken, AROP, Dark Eternal Night, Repentance, Paralyzed etc.
What irritates a bit is this behavior "I don't like it so the band obviously has a problem".
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@Puppies_On_Acid
Apologies for off topic, but damn I see what you mean. Fix the Error
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?
No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females". :P
I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny :blush
It's ok. :hug:
Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.
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@Puppies_On_Acid
Apologies for off topic, but damn I see what you mean. Fix the Error
Oh boy, if you've never listened to BtBaM before, you are in for a hell of a ride. I kind of envy you :metal
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I think this post is relevant to this thread
As for "less inspired", that's one of those phrases that feels like it should be struck from discussions around art to me. I get "boring", because tastes will be tastes and what satisfies one person could leave the other thoroughly bored. The matter of assuming an artist is inspired is contextual guesswork. I feel like it's invalid because there are plenty of examples where a band has actually struggled with ideas and really forced their material out, but all for an album that ended up actually being pretty well received. The reverse has also frequently happened. Maybe it's just me, but I think the matter of inspiration should only matter to the person working on it. It's always felt like a rather brazen assumption to make that someone was uninspired imo, because it just feels like someone projecting their personal dislike of something as a character fault on the person who created it. Needless to say, I feel the same way about using "lazy" as a criticism.
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Disliking some music is no big deal. I can make a list of DT songs that I don't like or hate:
Lie, Just Let Me Breathe, Burning My Soul, You Not Me, all TOT (except Vacant), Sacrificed Sons, Forsaken, AROP, Dark Eternal Night, Repentance, Paralyzed etc.
What irritates a bit is this behavior "I don't like it so the band obviously has a problem".
This.
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Time for an IM vs AROP vs Paralyzed poll? :lol
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Time for an IM vs AROP vs Paralyzed poll? :lol
Can we get a 4th option? :lol
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I just wanted to say that every time someone typed "IM" into this thread, my brain thought of Iron Maiden. :facepalm: :rollin
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I’ve seen a few people ask why someone who likes something is not often asked to justify why they like it in the same way that someone who has a negative reaction is.
My take on that is this. Dream Theater have produced a piece of art which is intended to be pleasing to the ears and for people to enjoy and we all (I hope) go into each release hoping to enjoy it. If someone enjoys it, then it’s job done, that’s what it was made for. Therefore there’s not really so much need to analyse it, that’s the intended result.
Now, if someone doesn’t like it, then something has gone wrong as the song was intended to be enjoyable and that’s when we like to analyse why it didn’t work for that person and they often like to justify why they didn’t like it. We all do it, me included, we can’t just accept it’s a subjective thing and a matter of personal taste, we have to try and justify why we don’t like it and point out the perceived flaws in the song.
That’s not to say that people who like things never explain why, they absolutely do. Most people who like a song usually point out the things they like. They don’t just give a thumbs up emoji and move on, they’ll say they love the production or the guitar solo or Mangini’s drums sound great or whatever.
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Time for an IM vs AROP vs Paralyzed poll? :lol
Why those 3?
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After listening to it again, I actually think the music is good, but the vocal timbre, volume and verse melody is what makes me not like the song
I think that's what I'm feeling as well, does it sound like the lyrics and lyrical melodies were done by a 12 year old, it's just really simple and kind of stupid. As someone else said, it's so predictable.
1000000000000000000000%
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Will be checking out BTBAM
They are incredible.
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I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.
While that probably shouldn't be a factor, I feel the same way.
Like I said before. I have seen the full movie without seeing a scene or trailer. I love it, but if you have only seen 2 scenes I understand why the movie isn’t doing it for you…… YET.
Your excitement for the album is one thing keeping me interested, so thank you.
That’s great to hear! I just wholeheartedly feel the singles are getting dissected and looked at under a microscope because it’s all most people have to go by so it’s only human to feel these songs represent the album. When these songs are heard together I believe some negative opinions will change. The PR/ Label dropped the ball on promotion. I know now for a 100% fact that IM is the last single before release. A kick ass medley would have truly been the right move. It’s giving fans a false impression and honestly pissing me off. My advice would be to stop listening to the singles NOW and wait for the album.
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Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.
The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?
JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.
Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.
You fans really crack me up.
What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?
I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement. Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.
"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."
Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?
I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate. Seems others somewhat agree. I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT?
You fans crack me up too.
It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.
But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.
It's fascinating, how fans can do this.
It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release. Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome. Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?
I'm allowed to not like it. And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.
What do I want from them? A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions. Something more melodically enticing too.
Not liking it is totally fine. I myself didn't like Paralyzed when D/T came out, and I'm happy they replaced it with FITL when they came to my city. Now, to say that the song is uninspired, and sounds like it the band is going through the motions and not giving a shit sounds to me like a way of saying:
"I am unispired when I listen to it. I'm going through the motions when I listen to it. I don't give a shit about it"
I'm sure the band didn't feel this way when writing the song otherwise it wouldn't have made it to the album.
Alright, I'll bite.
The band perhaps didn't feel like they were going through the motions when they wrote and recorded this song, but therein lies the problem (at least for people like myself or Wolfking or Elite). From an outside perspective it sure as hell sounds like they are going through the motions just to pump out a song. Which is why it sounds uninspired and like they stopped caring about writing captivating music that excites the listener. They need an outside listener (aka a real producer) to reign them in and at the same time force them to push in new directions, try new things (and I don't mean pull a 180 and write a country album (although Devin Townsend did that and it was amazing)). The band is basically writing and recording in a musical echo chamber at this point.
I'll provide two examples: First, I was listening to my music library on shuffle today while driving and Lie came on. Now that is (still) an exciting song to listen to. It has interesting arrangements, slick solos, great vocal melodies that make you want to sing along. What an awesome song! And basically every song on Awake (once I thought about it) is just as interesting. Invisible Monster gave me none of that excitement, even on subsequent listens.
Second: a great example of a band that can excite with every album is Between the Buried and Me. Whenever they release a new album you just know it will be chock full of exciting and surprising twists and turns, while still being melodic and memorable. When I listened to their new Colors II album that was just released for the first time I had the biggest grin on my face throughout the entire hour+ runtime. The 2 new DT songs had me falling asleep part way in...
Granted, if people like the new songs, that's fine. We are all entitled to like or not like whatever we want, but people are asking for why we don't like the new songs, so I figured I'd jump in with an explanation....
Also, I do acknowledge that DT tried something new with The Astonishing and I was on board with it for a while, but it didn't age well for me. However I do give them props for trying something different there. However, DT12 and D/T both fell flat for me.
Fair potins, and I agree with you in that it all comes down to the person listening rather than to the band. I don't think an outside producer will result in anything that different but again that's just a hypothetical at this point.
I love Awake too and Lie is indeed a masterpiece but also keep in mind it was written by a group of young early 30 year old who were still starting their career. 30 years will change people, how they write, and I think most bands that go this long go through this perception of "they sounded better back in the day".
I personally found At Wit's End to be an absolute badass song in the last album and one that I revisit a lot - other songs in that album (Paralyzed) not so much. Similarly I find Caught in a Web meh to my ears still while Voices and Lie are absolute masterpieces to me. It really comes down to the person listening not the band- that's the point I'm trying to make.
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Time for an IM vs AROP vs Paralyzed poll? :lol
Can we get a 4th option? :lol
Burning My Soul... :biggrin:
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Clearly this is all DT has to offer. Do you remember how blown away they were when they completed the recording and JP and JR had a conversation on how special they felt on what they had created?
A longtime friend and I have had a running joke for decades about artists gushing over their newest album or song. "This is our best album ever!" I mean, what else are they supposed to say? "Well, it's not our best work, but it's the best we had, so please buy it!"
Now, this is not meant to imply that artists are lying, as I am sure many do feel at the time that their newest work is (one of) their best, especially when it is so fresh after having just written and recorded it, and it's great when DT or other artists express great satisfaction in their latest work, but I am just saying, comments like that need to be taken with a grain of salt.
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If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall. Sadly it wasn’t my call even though a MEDLEY would have been better!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Honestly liked the song. Far more interesting for me than The Alien, which, with all due respect, just did nothing for me. Will be listening to it in the coming days
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Will be checking out BTBAM
They are incredible.
I've never really gotten into them. I should do a deep dive on them.
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Clearly this is all DT has to offer. Do you remember how blown away they were when they completed the recording and JP and JR had a conversation on how special they felt on what they had created?
A longtime friend and I have had a running joke for decades about artists gushing over their newest album or song. "This is our best album ever!" I mean, what else are they supposed to say? "Well, it's not our best work, but it's the best we had, so please buy it!"
Now, this is not meant to imply that artists are lying, as I am sure many do feel at the time that their newest work is (one of) their best, especially when it is so fresh after having just written and recorded it, and it's great when DT or other artists express great satisfaction in their latest work, but I am just saying, comments like that need to be taken with a grain of salt.
That was supposed to be my point. They did the best they could and are completely excited about it.
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Clearly this is all DT has to offer. Do you remember how blown away they were when they completed the recording and JP and JR had a conversation on how special they felt on what they had created?
A longtime friend and I have had a running joke for decades about artists gushing over their newest album or song. "This is our best album ever!" I mean, what else are they supposed to say? "Well, it's not our best work, but it's the best we had, so please buy it!"
Now, this is not meant to imply that artists are lying, as I am sure many do feel at the time that their newest work is (one of) their best, especially when it is so fresh after having just written and recorded it, and it's great when DT or other artists express great satisfaction in their latest work, but I am just saying, comments like that need to be taken with a grain of salt.
That was supposed to be my point. They did the best they could and are completely excited about it.
is DT15 better than Distance Over Time to you?
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Will be checking out BTBAM
They are incredible.
Start with Voice of Trespass
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Will be checking out BTBAM
They are incredible.
I've never really gotten into them. I should do a deep dive on them.
I listened to Colors about 10 years ago. I didn't like it and I never looked for the other records.
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Will be checking out BTBAM
They are incredible.
Start with Voice of Trespass
That's not one of their albums listed on wiki. I thought I'd start at the beginning.
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This thread is about The Monster by Rihanna right??
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Clearly this is all DT has to offer. Do you remember how blown away they were when they completed the recording and JP and JR had a conversation on how special they felt on what they had created?
A longtime friend and I have had a running joke for decades about artists gushing over their newest album or song. "This is our best album ever!" I mean, what else are they supposed to say? "Well, it's not our best work, but it's the best we had, so please buy it!"
Now, this is not meant to imply that artists are lying, as I am sure many do feel at the time that their newest work is (one of) their best, especially when it is so fresh after having just written and recorded it, and it's great when DT or other artists express great satisfaction in their latest work, but I am just saying, comments like that need to be taken with a grain of salt.
That was supposed to be my point. They did the best they could and are completely excited about it.
is DT15 better than Distance Over Time to you?
Yes, and I really like DoT!
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Will be checking out BTBAM
They are incredible.
Start with Voice of Trespass
That's not one of their albums listed on wiki. I thought I'd start at the beginning.
Oh, it's a song off Automata II
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Not wanting to derail much more the thread, but I recommend Automata I and II and Coma Ecliptic for those who are not very fond of the harsh vocals and drums. And Astral Body from Parallax II (first song I listened to)
As of Invisible Monster, it's definitely good! Not so surprising as The Alien, but it's still very good.
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Will be checking out BTBAM
They are incredible.
Start with Voice of Trespass
That's not one of their albums listed on wiki. I thought I'd start at the beginning.
Just taking your tastes in to account, don't start at the beginning. Start with Colors or The Great Misdirect.
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?
No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females". :P
I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny :blush
It's ok. :hug:
Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.
I’m confused . . . what is Glasser apologizing for? The off-color part or the fact that he used the word “female”? If the latter, is that word now considered a slur?
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?
No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females". :P
I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny :blush
It's ok. :hug:
Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.
I’m confused . . . what is Glasser apologizing for? The off-color part or the fact that he used the word “female”? If the latter, is that word now considered a slur?
Not a slur, but using an adjective as a noun does come off slightly more degrading, in the same way that saying "black people" is more politically correct than "blacks". "Females" also has a bit of a reputation for being used by sexist people on the internet. Glasser isn't one of them, but that's what my joke was referencing.
Like I said though: in an innocuous context, the word isn't a big deal. I was just being a dick for the lols. :P
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?
No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females". :P
I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny :blush
It's ok. :hug:
Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.
I’m confused . . . what is Glasser apologizing for? The off-color part or the fact that he used the word “female”? If the latter, is that word now considered a slur?
No, just that lately the people who refer to women as "females" are highly correlated with the misogynistic incel types. Not saying that the word itself is misogynistic in a vacuum, but it's become associated with those types of people
That said, I didn't even realize Glasser said it until someone pointed it out because from his other posts, I have no reason to see him as an unsavory person
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I'm a female and really don't care one way or the other, as long as it's not a "b" or a "c" word. So many better things to put my mind on.
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I have nothing to add other than the song did not inspire a strong reaction from me one way or the other.
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?
No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females". :P
I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny :blush
It's ok. :hug:
Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.
I’m confused . . . what is Glasser apologizing for? The off-color part or the fact that he used the word “female”? If the latter, is that word now considered a slur?
For the off color content. Female was not meant to be a slur. I truly didn’t mean to offend anyone.
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I'm a female and really don't care one way or the other, as long as it's not a "b" or a "c" word. So many better things to put my mind on.
THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Unfortunately YOU are in the vast MINORITY when it comes to this kind of stuff. BUT, YOU have my respect (for whatever that's worth - LOL)
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What’s interesting, is that I listened to IM a couple of times. Personally, I enjoyed it, not as much as the Alien, but thought it was a reasonable and pretty straightforward track. I also completely understand those that felt it underwhelming. In any case, I was just gonna have the couple of listens and leave it there till the album release.
Then, in my car, I said, “bugger it, once more won’t hurt” and I listened to it back to back with The Alien. I don’t know if was because it was in similar context, if it started clicking a bit more etc., but I thoroughly enjoyed it, and really look forward to the album. Again, I won’t overdo it, but just was really taken by surprise how much more I enjoyed it with that listen. Take that for what it’s worth.
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If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.
Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin. And I don't dislike ATM at all. I just like IM a lot.
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If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?
No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females". :P
I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny :blush
It's ok. :hug:
Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.
I’m confused . . . what is Glasser apologizing for? The off-color part or the fact that he used the word “female”? If the latter, is that word now considered a slur?
No, just that lately the people who refer to women as "females" are highly correlated with the misogynistic incel types. Not saying that the word itself is misogynistic in a vacuum, but it's become associated with those types of people
That said, I didn't even realize Glasser said it until someone pointed it out because from his other posts, I have no reason to see him as an unsavory person
Perhaps it’s just me, but I’m completely confused… ???
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If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.
Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin. And I don't dislike ATM at all. I just like IM a lot.
In the same way that you really love Behind The Veil, I guess?
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To address the criticism, and the "balance" issue just a bit:
This comes up every time there is something new. And, basically, I allow discussion to be pretty free here. People are certainly entitled to have their opinions of DT material. And, perhaps moreso than way back in the days of the official forum, people are entitled to express those opinions, whether positive or negative. They just need to be expressed in a respectful way. And, in my opinion as the guy who has the final say on the rules, I think that is the healthiest approach. I've been around and around this issue with most of the band members, and my philosophy is that it is best to let people discuss freely, within certain bounds. And since I feel that DT is pretty consistent about putting out quality music that they have taken their time to thoughtfully construct, I think that even the negative opinions are beneficial to them, because those opinions invite discussion that, on balance, ends up ultimately being constructive.
But do some comments cross the line? Yeah. I think some do, even if we let them go and don't say anything. Keep in mind that the goal isn't "It's just my opinion, and I'm just telling the truth." Opinions can be offered using tact and diplomacy, and some of you lack that. As was rightly pointed out, making music is a job for these guys, and sometimes people on a job don't always put out a 100% airtight, top-quality product. But by the same token, this is art, and the DT guys are artists. They pour themselves into their art, and present it to us, the fans, as something for us to enjoy. If your kid made poured him/herself into a piece of art and gave it to you, and you said, "Meh, this is dull and uninspired," my opinion is that you seriously lack tact and understanding and should check yourself. I think we make the mistake of forgetting that this music is a labor of love presented as a gift to the fans, and I think the reasons we forget (or simply discount that fact) is that the band members are semi-public figures and make a profit from selling their art. But I think we would do well to remember the human side that I mentioned a couple of lines above.
Anyhow, bottom line is, as long as the discussion stays relatively respectful, which it largely does, the mods and I will not interfere. Feel free to like or dislike what suits your tastes. Discuss away. But try to keep it within reasonable bounds.
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If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.
Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin. And I don't dislike ATM at all. I just like IM a lot.
In the same way that you really love Behind The Veil, I guess?
Mmmm...not sure what you mean by that. I do love Behind the Veil though.
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Liking this one, maybe could’ve gotten weirder after the solo instead of the clean wrap up, but a solid one that I’m guessing fits in on the album really well.
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I'm a female and really don't care one way or the other, as long as it's not a "b" or a "c" word. So many better things to put my mind on.
THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Unfortunately YOU are in the vast MINORITY when it comes to this kind of stuff. BUT, YOU have my respect (for whatever that's worth - LOL)
Hope to see you a show sometime!
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If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.
Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin. And I don't dislike ATM at all. I just like IM a lot.
In the same way that you really love Behind The Veil, I guess?
Mmmm...not sure what you mean by that. I do love Behind the Veil though.
Oh, I meant that in a posiive way! I just remembered you saying you love BTV and I sort of can imagine why you like IM.
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I listened today to The Alien, then IM. It was great!. It made The Alien go up another notch! And then right into that eerie intro...I am starting to get that "feeling" about the album! (Lol, I almost always do anyway).
Personally, I like to listen to the songs I know they will play at the concert and get to know them well. I want to have had that "growing" time, so I can feel that joy of Dream Theater music amplified by the live experience.
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No worries, I didn't think you meant it negatively. I just didn't understand exactly what you were getting at. BTV is such a nice mix of heavy and melody. JP is such a master of sinister riffs. BTV is a good example of a song where the riffs definitely fit into that category, but don't stray too far into that area to make the song unduly dark.
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I listened today to The Alien, then IM. It was great!. It made The Alien go up another notch! And then right into that eerie intro...I am starting to get that "feeling" about the album! (Lol, I almost always do anyway).
Personally, I like to listen to the songs I know they will play at the concert and get to know them well. I want to have had that "growing" time, so I can feel that joy of Dream Theater music amplified by the live experience.
Me too...I only have 6 days to get familiar with the songs before I see them live. So I'll likely just be listening to this album for the week it's released. :lol
It's actually a reason why I decided to just listen to the released songs as much as I can without over listening to it, like maybe a couple times a week...
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Enjoyable song, fun parts, and a nice contrast to The Alien. And damn that harmonic minor unison in the solo, simple and effective.
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Enjoyable song, fun parts, and a nice contrast to The Alien. And damn that harmonic minor unison in the solo, simple and effective.
Best part IMO.
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My first post here on the DT side in weeks. I've listened to the song twice now and it's alright, I enjoy it much better than The Alien though. I'm not blown away by either songs.
Can't say I'm super hyped about the new album, but that's probably because my interest in the band has waned significantly in the last few years.
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If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.
Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin. And I don't dislike ATM at all. I just like IM a lot.
In the same way that you really love Behind The Veil, I guess?
Mmmm...not sure what you mean by that. I do love Behind the Veil though.
Wait a minute, do people not like Behind The Veil? That’s a really cool song.
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Just gave it a second listen and actually really like it, felt more like 90’s dream theater which is a good thing to me.
If Labrie was singing in the same registers he used to… I think that would solve a lot of the “boring” issues people have.
Petrucci slays this song though, it’s catchy, and the bridge and solo are good.
I’m super excited for the album as I like both the alien and IM.
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BTV is such a nice mix of heavy and melody. JP is such a master of sinister riffs. BTV is a good example of a song where the riffs definitely fit into that category, but don't stray too far into that area to make the song unduly dark.
Also to expand on that, the guitar solo is right up there with the one from UAGM. :tup
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Will be checking out BTBAM
They are incredible.
Start with Voice of Trespass
That's not one of their albums listed on wiki. I thought I'd start at the beginning.
Don't do that. Colors, or Parallax 1 and 2. Starting from the start won't go well.
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Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.
The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?
JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.
Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.
You fans really crack me up.
What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?
I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement. Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.
"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."
Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?
I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate. Seems others somewhat agree. I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT?
You fans crack me up too.
It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.
But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.
It's fascinating, how fans can do this.
It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release. Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome. Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?
I'm allowed to not like it. And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.
What do I want from them? A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions. Something more melodically enticing too.
Not liking it is totally fine. I myself didn't like Paralyzed when D/T came out, and I'm happy they replaced it with FITL when they came to my city. Now, to say that the song is uninspired, and sounds like it the band is going through the motions and not giving a shit sounds to me like a way of saying:
"I am unispired when I listen to it. I'm going through the motions when I listen to it. I don't give a shit about it"
I'm sure the band didn't feel this way when writing the song otherwise it wouldn't have made it to the album.
Alright, I'll bite.
The band perhaps didn't feel like they were going through the motions when they wrote and recorded this song, but therein lies the problem (at least for people like myself or Wolfking or Elite). From an outside perspective it sure as hell sounds like they are going through the motions just to pump out a song. Which is why it sounds uninspired and like they stopped caring about writing captivating music that excites the listener. They need an outside listener (aka a real producer) to reign them in and at the same time force them to push in new directions, try new things (and I don't mean pull a 180 and write a country album (although Devin Townsend did that and it was amazing)). The band is basically writing and recording in a musical echo chamber at this point.
I'll provide two examples: First, I was listening to my music library on shuffle today while driving and Lie came on. Now that is (still) an exciting song to listen to. It has interesting arrangements, slick solos, great vocal melodies that make you want to sing along. What an awesome song! And basically every song on Awake (once I thought about it) is just as interesting. Invisible Monster gave me none of that excitement, even on subsequent listens.
Second: a great example of a band that can excite with every album is Between the Buried and Me. Whenever they release a new album you just know it will be chock full of exciting and surprising twists and turns, while still being melodic and memorable. When I listened to their new Colors II album that was just released for the first time I had the biggest grin on my face throughout the entire hour+ runtime. The 2 new DT songs had me falling asleep part way in...
Granted, if people like the new songs, that's fine. We are all entitled to like or not like whatever we want, but people are asking for why we don't like the new songs, so I figured I'd jump in with an explanation....
Also, I do acknowledge that DT tried something new with The Astonishing and I was on board with it for a while, but it didn't age well for me. However I do give them props for trying something different there. However, DT12 and D/T both fell flat for me.
Exactly. Lie is a great example. It always sounds fresh and energetic to me. It isn't a long song by DT standards but is catchy (same with 6:00 from the same album) It just seems like writing the vocal parts on Invisible Monster and even The Alien were afterthoughts. The vocal melodies are not memorable and feel forced in (even though I think James sounds good) Kind of how I feel about the new Maiden album honestly. I did like the first two lines of Invisible Monster until the line about the Serpent Tail wrapping around his poor neck. The is when it started sounding like a a B-side to me. I really wanted to like it...it just feels off
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If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.
Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin. And I don't dislike ATM at all. I just like IM a lot.
What are your top 3 songs from the new album?
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Wait a minute, do people not like Behind The Veil? That’s a really cool song.
Some do, and some don't. Others think it's just kind of OK.
You know, like every other DT song.
a MEDLEY would have been better!!!!!
A medley is almost never better.
I personally have a little constrained feelings about that song. It's nice, so nice, melodic, but so simple, so predictable with tons of 'dt heard moments before'
Middle section somewhere between 2,20' and 3' is pretty good.
Production/sound is on high level.
I hope it'll work like UA on DoT to me, my least favourite song on it.
Vlasto! It's been so long! I feel like a celebration is almost in order!
We'll think of something.
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No worries, I didn't think you meant it negatively. I just didn't understand exactly what you were getting at. BTV is such a nice mix of heavy and melody. JP is such a master of sinister riffs. BTV is a good example of a song where the riffs definitely fit into that category, but don't stray too far into that area to make the song unduly dark.
I totally agree the BTV is one of their absolute best "heavy" songs.
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I'm a female and really don't care one way or the other, as long as it's not a "b" or a "c" word. So many better things to put my mind on.
THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Unfortunately YOU are in the vast MINORITY when it comes to this kind of stuff. BUT, YOU have my respect (for whatever that's worth - LOL)
Got some data to back that claim up? I think the PC crowd/feminazi/male feminist types are the (loud and vocal) minority.
but yea... Dream Theater!
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Vlasto! It's been so long! I feel like a celebration is almost in order!
We'll think of something.
well yeah daddy buddy! I'm sporadically here, but the critics here always remind me old times back in 2003-2004 when ToT was released and we had official forum on dt.net page. :biggrin:
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Tot is a masterpiece
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Tot is a masterpiece
but... can you imagine how much it was criticised after SDOIT album? :laugh:
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Vlasto! It's been so long! I feel like a celebration is almost in order!
We'll think of something.
well yeah daddy buddy! I'm sporadically here, but the critics here always remind me old times back in 2003-2004 when ToT was released and we had official forum on dt.net page. :biggrin:
The good old days!
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If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.
Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin. And I don't dislike ATM at all. I just like IM a lot.
What are your top 3 songs from the new album?
Too early. I can't pick a top 3 yet. I've only listened to the entire album a handful of times (enough to be generally familiar so I can do my job and authenticate leaks, etc.), but not enough to have really internalized the songs enough to rank them. I am still kind of in that phase where the first three songs kind of feel like my top 3, but that is only because they are the first three songs, and so they more easily stick in my mind.
One thing I will say about the album in general: When I was first getting into DT, some of their odd time signatures used to catch me offguard because I just wasn't used to hearing that type of music. The timing made me feel off balance, so to speak. As my ear got used to that sort of thing, that feeling mostly went away and it usually didn't feel that shocking when I would listen to new DT music. But there are quite a few moments on this album where that is back again. Not sure exactly what they are doing that makes it feel that jarring, but it is cool. There is some of that on The Alien and, to a much lesser degree, Invisible Monster. But (without giving too much away), it is really present on Answering the Call. On that one, the music on the verses sounds like it is plodding forward on a simple, straightforward beat, but it isn't. When the vocals come in, it highlights the odd timing and sounds almost out of sync, which builds tension during the verses, and which the band then resolves in the chorus. It's a neat way of bringing tension and release other than the more typical ways DT and other bands incorporate that concept into music.
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I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.
While that probably shouldn't be a factor, I feel the same way.
Like I said before. I have seen the full movie without seeing a scene or trailer. I love it, but if you have only seen 2 scenes I understand why the movie isn’t doing it for you…… YET.
Your excitement for the album is one thing keeping me interested, so thank you.
That’s great to hear! I just wholeheartedly feel the singles are getting dissected and looked at under a microscope because it’s all most people have to go by so it’s only human to feel these songs represent the album. When these songs are heard together I believe some negative opinions will change. The PR/ Label dropped the ball on promotion. I know now for a 100% fact that IM is the last single before release. A kick ass medley would have truly been the right move. It’s giving fans a false impression and honestly pissing me off. My advice would be to stop listening to the singles NOW and wait for the album.
This IS all we have, and this IS what the band - through their representation - felt would make the best impression. I respect that you have information I don't have (and by the way, for different reasons, I HAVE foregone the singles in anticipation of the full album), but it almost seems like you're getting defensive here. It's OKAY, we can still be fans and have criticisms. I LOVE DT, and have been a fan since '92, but I've also had criticisms since then as well. I can't help that I like what I like and don't pay a lot of lip service to "having" to love everything my favorite bands do. I'm a Kiss fan, after all! :) :) :)
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I'm a female and really don't care one way or the other, as long as it's not a "b" or a "c" word. So many better things to put my mind on.
THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Unfortunately YOU are in the vast MINORITY when it comes to this kind of stuff. BUT, YOU have my respect (for whatever that's worth - LOL)
Got some data to back that claim up? I think the PC crowd/feminazi/male feminist types are the (loud and vocal) minority.
but yea... Dream Theater!
What is that lovely term again, uuuh, haha, right, virtue signaling :tup
Or is it only valid when talking about the left? :facepalm:
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He isn't getting defensive that I can see, Stadler. I think you are just nickpicking at something that doesn't need to be picked at.
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He isn't getting defensive that I can see, Stadler. I think you are just nickpicking at something that doesn't need to be picked at.
Fair enough; I'm just trying to collect input as we move toward release, and it struck me that there might be a pattern to all this. If not, I'm good. I'm going to be listening to the album intently regardless. :) :) :)
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If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.
Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin. And I don't dislike ATM at all. I just like IM a lot.
What are your top 3 songs from the new album?
Too early. I can't pick a top 3 yet. I've only listened to the entire album a handful of times (enough to be generally familiar so I can do my job and authenticate leaks, etc.), but not enough to have really internalized the songs enough to rank them. I am still kind of in that phase where the first three songs kind of feel like my top 3, but that is only because they are the first three songs, and so they more easily stick in my mind.
One thing I will say about the album in general: When I was first getting into DT, some of their odd time signatures used to catch me offguard because I just wasn't used to hearing that type of music. The timing made me feel off balance, so to speak. As my ear got used to that sort of thing, that feeling mostly went away and it usually didn't feel that shocking when I would listen to new DT music. But there are quite a few moments on this album where that is back again. Not sure exactly what they are doing that makes it feel that jarring, but it is cool. There is some of that on The Alien and, to a much lesser degree, Invisible Monster. But (without giving too much away), it is really present on Answering the Call. On that one, the music on the verses sounds like it is plodding forward on a simple, straightforward beat, but it isn't. When the vocals come in, it highlights the odd timing and sounds almost out of sync, which builds tension during the verses, and which the band then resolves in the chorus. It's a neat way of bringing tension and release other than the more typical ways DT and other bands incorporate that concept into music.
First three being the alien, atc and im. Hmm well that would be in line with best songs from recent albums (including Lte3 and terminal velocity) being the singles, but that's not exactly what I wished for! Guess we'll see
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I'm a female and really don't care one way or the other, as long as it's not a "b" or a "c" word. So many better things to put my mind on.
THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Unfortunately YOU are in the vast MINORITY when it comes to this kind of stuff. BUT, YOU have my respect (for whatever that's worth - LOL)
Got some data to back that claim up? I think the PC crowd/feminazi/male feminist types are the (loud and vocal) minority.
but yea... Dream Theater!
What is that lovely term again, uuuh, haha, right, virtue signaling :tup
Or is it only valid when talking about the left? :facepalm:
Most people are neither far left or far right, so the extremes (PC is an extremist view) are the minority.
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So to set myself up for more false expectations, I have this playlist playing on repeat for a half day now.
The Alien
The Dark Eternal Night
Invisible Monster
Lost Not Forgotten
Behind The Veil
Pale Blue Dot
A Change of Seasons
And man, does Invisible Monster sound so much better in that playlist!
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Looks pretty good!!
If the alien is NOT the best song on the new album then we're definitely in for a treat. As we get closer though I'm beginning to worry that it will be
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When is the last time that the opening track in a DT album is the best track? They almost always reserve the best in Side B of the casette tape.
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@LKap: Well, again, I'm not saying those are necessarily my "top 3." They are just the 3 that stand out the most, but that is just a factor of their placement as the first 3 tracks on the album. I almost always feel that way when I get a new album until I have had enough time to really digest the material and become familiar with it. I'm not there yet with this one. I've had it since a little after Glasser got it, I believe. But as I mentioned above, I have intentionally listened to it far less. So I want to again stress that I haven't digested the material enough to have a "real" top 3. Thus far, I really like them all. But I'm still in the mode where I tend to think of them more as "the opening song," "the mega-epic," "the nod to Rush song," and the like rather than independent entities yet.
@Darkshade and Beatrice: This thread is not about "political view" (for lack of a better term), "PC terminology," etc. That was a brief derail, and it needs to end. Please stay on topic.
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Oh, so there is a nod to Rush song? We finally got some info from you. :p
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Well...isn't there always?
:ontome:
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Well, Train of Thought and Systematic Chaos don't. :)
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Well, Train of Thought and Systematic Chaos don't. :)
SC definitely does to my ears. At least one specific rush riff.
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A riff does not a nod to Rush make. Hehehe
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I really hope the alien and IM are not two of the best songs on the album, I don’t dislike either of them but figured there will be much better stuff coming.
Especially with Glasser calling it massive and epic and the singles often being my least favorite tracks.
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A riff does not a nod to Rush make. Hehehe
Maybe. But every time I hear it, I think Rush. But it's all good.
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I really hope the alien and IM are not two of the best songs on the album, I don’t dislike either of them but figured there will be much better stuff coming.
Especially with Glasser calling it massive and epic and the singles often being my least favorite tracks.
Love how we all, myself included, are hanging all our hopes on Glasser! Wonder if he's feeling the pressure
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Album is released and next thing you know, Glasser has skipped town lol jk!
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Mike Mangini - "Was that a 15-Tuplet Gong Drum Roll to start Invisible Monster? I don't remember."
:facepalm: :lol
-Marc.
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@Darkshade and Beatrice: This thread is not about "political view" (for lack of a better term), "PC terminology," etc. That was a brief derail, and it needs to end. Please stay on topic.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/rcqtfj0RAhWLu/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952e6ca514f31ba4ecf194bae681d4e5d0b3774ba29&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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I prefer "They came from behind!" :eyebrows: But whatever. :lol
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I'm going to respond to this post, not to be belligerent, but because I just don't really agree with some of the things stated and to maybe clarify why I (or some others) posted what we have done in this thread. This post is not meant as an attack, even though I'm directly quoting bosk.
To address the criticism, and the "balance" issue just a bit:
This comes up every time there is something new. And, basically, I allow discussion to be pretty free here. People are certainly entitled to have their opinions of DT material. And, perhaps moreso than way back in the days of the official forum, people are entitled to express those opinions, whether positive or negative. They just need to be expressed in a respectful way. And, in my opinion as the guy who has the final say on the rules, I think that is the healthiest approach. I've been around and around this issue with most of the band members, and my philosophy is that it is best to let people discuss freely, within certain bounds. And since I feel that DT is pretty consistent about putting out quality music that they have taken their time to thoughtfully construct, I think that even the negative opinions are beneficial to them, because those opinions invite discussion that, on balance, ends up ultimately being constructive.
Naturally, I've got nothing on that paragraph, but I kept it in this post just to mention that as well.
But do some comments cross the line? Yeah. I think some do, even if we let them go and don't say anything. Keep in mind that the goal isn't "It's just my opinion, and I'm just telling the truth." Opinions can be offered using tact and diplomacy, and some of you lack that.
Honestly, I don't even know whether the above part is targeting me in particular, though I can image it is, since I wrote (exactly) the following: "One listen in (just now) and this might seriously be one of the most boring, lifeless DT tracks ever." Although I maybe shouldn't have presented that as a 'fact', it's still how I felt about the song after one listen. For the record, I haven't heard it again and likely won't until I hear the full album, so I stand by what I sent. Is it tactless? Kind of, but that was partly the point. It may have been better to state it not as a fact (for it's not), but as my personal opinion. That said, a lot of stuff written on these forums (and DT Side in particular) gets presented as truth and/or fact, so it's not out of line for me to do so. If I crossed a line there, I'm sorry.
As was rightly pointed out, making music is a job for these guys, and sometimes people on a job don't always put out a 100% airtight, top-quality product. But by the same token, this is art, and the DT guys are artists. They pour themselves into their art, and present it to us, the fans, as something for us to enjoy.
So, I definitely agree with the first part. Nobody can be expected to deliver and give 100% all the time. That's an impossible standard to hold anybody accountable for. In that sense, it's absolutely no surprise that a band (or any other artist) can't make 'good' stuff all the time, but by the same token, it's not really for an artist to decide whether their art is 'good', but in this case to the listener. '100% airtight, top quality' just doesn't work for music, paintings, films etc., because there's no standard to adhere to. That said, just because DT are a band of musicians/creators/artists (whatever), that doesn't mean they 'pour themselves' into it. I can't image what it's like to be a musician for ~40 years, but like with any job, at some point it becomes a routine. My personal feeling on this latest single is that it sounds uninspired (I used the word 'lifeless', to be fair), because it's something I've heard before. An artist should, in my opinion, do things differently, expand on what they've done in the past, incorporate new influences, be relevant in some way to what's happening in the world/music scene/anything. I did not hear this on this song. Whether I (or anyone else) will enjoy it, is, unfortunately for anyone who creates art, not up to the creator.
If your kid made poured him/herself into a piece of art and gave it to you, and you said, "Meh, this is dull and uninspired," my opinion is that you seriously lack tact and understanding and should check yourself.
Definitely agree on this one, but I don't have children, so I can't relate in the literal sense of what you're saying, but I get the point. The difference being that your child/girlfriend/wife/husband/parents/whatever have a personal relationship with you. I don't have a personal relationship with Dream Theater or any of its members, so I don't at all feel bad for saying I think this song feels lifeless in that sense.
I think we make the mistake of forgetting that this music is a labor of love presented as a gift to the fans, and I think the reasons we forget (or simply discount that fact) is that the band members are semi-public figures and make a profit from selling their art.
I'm not sure whether Dream Theater's music is a 'labor of love' or whether it's simply labor, because it's their job to make music. I can't tell for sure, so I won't argue that. It certainly isn't a 'gift to the fans', because as you state yourself they actually make a profit from selling their music. Releasing a single (for free, okay, so maybe that's the gift you're referring to?) is a means to hopefully sell more copies of the record or more tickets to their shows.
But I think we would do well to remember the human side that I mentioned a couple of lines above.
Which is why I personally would never attack any band-member, not on these forums, nor on their social media, whatever. It's not as if I'm saying nasty stuff about the band, I'm only stating I didn't like this last song. Yes, I do get that it's easy to do on a forum where I'm basically posting semi-anonymous and if I were to meet the band, I wouldn't say it the same way. I love (most of) Dream Theater's music. They've been a huge part of my life and therefore I get strong reactions to what they release. I think that's the same for a lot of other people here.
Anyhow, bottom line is, as long as the discussion stays relatively respectful, which it largely does, the mods and I will not interfere. Feel free to like or dislike what suits your tastes. Discuss away. But try to keep it within reasonable bounds.
I hope I have! And if not, please let me know.
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Tot is a masterpiece
but... can you imagine how much it was criticised after SDOIT album? :laugh:
Almost 18 years later I'm still criticizing. :biggrin:
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I've listened to IM twice now and count me as one who thinks its just OK. The production sounds good but the song is nothing special - a little boring and safe IMO. I think The Alien kicks ass however, so I still have high hopes for the album. I guess not every song can be the second coming of Voices or Learning to Live
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I'm going to respond to this post, not to be belligerent, but because I just don't really agree with some of the things stated and to maybe clarify why I (or some others) posted what we have done in this thread. This post is not meant as an attack, even though I'm directly quoting bosk.
It was all taken in the spirit that you meant it. :tup
I'll just add that my post was not aimed at any particular person. Regarding your specific posts about the song, I do think more tact than you put in your post is the better approach, so I disagree with you on several of your points. I stand by what I wrote, and I respect you standing by what you wrote. While I might disagree with some of the bluntness of your posts on the song, I don't feel that they break the rules, and I'm...I guess, "okay" with the fact that we see it differently. It is what it is. To put it another way, I'm cool with people not seeing it as I do, and I hope you are as well.
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As was rightly pointed out, making music is a job for these guys, and sometimes people on a job don't always put out a 100% airtight, top-quality product. But by the same token, this is art, and the DT guys are artists. They pour themselves into their art, and present it to us, the fans, as something for us to enjoy.
So, I definitely agree with the first part. Nobody can be expected to deliver and give 100% all the time. That's an impossible standard to hold anybody accountable for. In that sense, it's absolutely no surprise that a band (or any other artist) can't make 'good' stuff all the time, but by the same token, it's not really for an artist to decide whether their art is 'good', but in this case to the listener. '100% airtight, top quality' just doesn't work for music, paintings, films etc., because there's no standard to adhere to. That said, just because DT are a band of musicians/creators/artists (whatever), that doesn't mean they 'pour themselves' into it. I can't image what it's like to be a musician for ~40 years, but like with any job, at some point it becomes a routine. My personal feeling on this latest single is that it sounds uninspired (I used the word 'lifeless', to be fair), because it's something I've heard before. An artist should, in my opinion, do things differently, expand on what they've done in the past, incorporate new influences, be relevant in some way to what's happening in the world/music scene/anything. I did not hear this on this song. Whether I (or anyone else) will enjoy it, is, unfortunately for anyone who creates art, not up to the creator.
An artist is not adhered to standards. As I see it, not having standards for Art also means not demanding what Artists should do with regards to their art and how they present the art. For me, analyzing art is not only saying..."He should've put some blue here, maybe a touch of glitter here, it's boring and dull because he didn't add any shade, shine, or purple sparkle to it's finish" but also wondering, "why did the artist choose to use that color there, why he did not decide to use glitter there, why did the artist choose to use and paint what they did." I guess I like to rather focus on that latter aspect of analyzing over what I think they should've done, to understand the intent of the artist and the purpose of the art piece.
What makes music art is there are no set rules for music. Humans made rules for it, humans made ways to try and understand what music is, Music Theory is there to try and write and describe that musical language.
The reasons why people make art are for many different reasons. Maybe they were mad, maybe they just wanted to paint, maybe they want to state a message, and maybe they just wanted to make a quick buck.
So, in the end, what I think about music is that there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" music. Just music that you prefer and music that you don't.
It's up to the person who sees that art to place sentimental value on the art. It's how an artist can set a price, and if the person feels the artist deserves more money for it, then why not accept that amount, for that person feels it's worth more for them to have the need to want it and buy it. This is a big reason I like Bandcamp and it's pay whatever you want system.
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damn it's vlasto day???
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Well put.
Now Glasser we need you in here STAT to reassure us the new album is killer :lol
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damn it's vlasto day???
:vlastoday:
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Well put.
Now Glasser we need you in here STAT to reassure us the new album is killer :lol
??? I think Glasser, noxon, and I have ALL basically said that it is pretty killer, albeit not in so many words.
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I've only heard IM once and I'm still humming that opening keyboard riff. I love it.
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Well put.
Now Glasser we need you in here STAT to reassure us the new album is killer :lol
And if the 'well put' was meant in response to Ben_Jamin's response to my post, I'm not sure what you even mean, since I never claimed the album isn't going to be good. I'm looking forward to it, like most of us here are.
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I remember way back when they used to have various albums as "inspiration" for their own. I think it was nicknamed "inspirational corner" or something. While we got a few "rip-off" tracks with this approach (Muse, anyone?), I think the end result was usually really cool.
This time around I wonder if the guys put some of their own albums in said "inspirational corner" ... I've heard the track three times, but it already feels old. It's the same 'formula' they've been doing for years now. It's properly done and all; good musicianship, good vocals, well produced. But oh so, dare I say it, boring.
The Alien was a completely different beast. At least from my point of view I hope Invisible Monster is the weakest track on the album, and by some margin.
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I've only heard IM once and I'm still humming that opening keyboard riff. I love it.
Makes sense. I find it very ear-wormy.
During one of my early listens, I wrote some short notes on a Post-It for each song (as I sometimes do just to keep each song straight in my mind). Here is what I jotted down for this song: "HK intro. Accessible guitar/key riff. Verse syncopation. Chorus ear worm! Eerie melody--SC? Love it!"
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I definitely agree that it's a nice little earworm. And I like JP's solo. If I would change one thing, it's that I wish there was something giving it a little extra oomph when that chorus came back around the final time. Not sure what that thing would be. But I feel like it could make it feel a bit more powerful.
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Oomph? that's one of the problems with later DT, after a big climax they repeat the same chorus. The Alien was a little different, but the last time I remember the last chorus having any major change from the other choruses was Beyond This Life.
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I've seen a few posts in this thread that call people a fanboy because they write nothing but positive reviews all the time. In my case, it's just rare that DT puts out something that I don't like. At their level of musicianship with all the knowledge and tricks they have in their bag, they've gotten really good at arranging those ingredients into songs. I think it's safe to say it's hard for them to write a bad song since they hold themselves to such high standards, plus they love what they do.
I know it's a business and they have to make a living, but I still believe their music is a gift to the fans. The reason that I say that is because they've never sold out (compromised) and have done things their way. I'm so glad there are people in the business writing complex yet interesting music that I can bring home to my personal world and have an escape from daily life. DT certainly delivers time after time in that area which honestly adds to the quality of my life. So it is a gift because they share their God given talents to those that want to hear it. Even though we invest in their product, it just gives it more value and something to protect.
So if anyone wants to call me a fanboy, so be it! To me, it's just about appreciating something that is designed to have a positive impact in daily life. :coolio
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You aren't a "fanboy" just because you like most or all of a particular artist's output. If a particular artist resonates with you, chances are that, unless they radically change their sound, what they do in the future will likely resonate with you as well. I have a number of artists I feel that way about. In terms of just blindly lapping up an artist's output, I think the "fanboy" label only applies when it is clear that a person refuses to be objective, which does not apply here. For instance, there is a certain frequent flyer in the Queensryche thread who tries to argue that Geoff Tate sounds fantastic, has not lost a significant part of his ability, and continues to sing correctly. Anyone who chooses to like Tate and think he sounds fine, that's great. Enjoy what you enjoy. But at least the second two of those three points are objectively, demonstrably false, and I would argue that the first is pretty darned close. To argue against those kinds of objective facts or to brush valid criticism aside is blind "fanboyism." But, again, that isn't the case here.
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I've seen a few posts in this thread that call people a fanboy because they write nothing but positive reviews all the time. In my case, it's just rare that DT puts out something that I don't like. At their level of musicianship with all the knowledge and tricks they have in their bag, they've gotten really good at arranging those ingredients into songs. I think it's safe to say it's hard for them to write a bad song since they hold themselves to such high standards, plus they love what they do.
I know it's a business and they have to make a living, but I still believe their music is a gift to the fans. The reason that I say that is because they've never sold out (compromised) and have done things their way. I'm so glad there are people in the business writing complex yet interesting music that I can bring home to my personal world and have an escape from daily life. DT certainly delivers time after time in that area which honestly adds to the quality of my life. So it is a gift because they share their God given talents to those that want to hear it. Even though we invest in their product, it just gives it more value and something to protect.
So if anyone wants to call me a fanboy, so be it! To me, it's just about appreciating something that is designed to have a positive impact in daily life. :coolio
This. I'm with you, brother. The only reason I lurk on a site called 'Dreamtheater Forums' is bc I'm a huge fan. I 'want' to like everything, and am only dissappointed when I've exhausted all efforts to be otherwise. So yeah, I'm a total fanboy. ;D
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I've seen a few posts in this thread that call people a fanboy because they write nothing but positive reviews all the time. In my case, it's just rare that DT puts out something that I don't like. At their level of musicianship with all the knowledge and tricks they have in their bag, they've gotten really good at arranging those ingredients into songs. I think it's safe to say it's hard for them to write a bad song since they hold themselves to such high standards, plus they love what they do.
I know it's a business and they have to make a living, but I still believe their music is a gift to the fans. The reason that I say that is because they've never sold out (compromised) and have done things their way. I'm so glad there are people in the business writing complex yet interesting music that I can bring home to my personal world and have an escape from daily life. DT certainly delivers time after time in that area which honestly adds to the quality of my life. So it is a gift because they share their God given talents to those that want to hear it. Even though we invest in their product, it just gives it more value and something to protect.
So if anyone wants to call me a fanboy, so be it! To me, it's just about appreciating something that is designed to have a positive impact in daily life. :coolio
Yep, I am a fangirl. Maybe because it's only been 5 years since my "discovery", but when I try to listen to other bands, I just find myself wanting to listen to DT. I hope it doesn't fade, but you never know. DT usurped Metallica, and I don't listen to them that much now. (I will go to their concerts though!)
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Yeah, always thought it was weird to come on a DT fan site and use the term DT fanboy as an insult/criticism. We’re all fanboys and girls aren’t we? I do know what people are getting at in that, just because you’re a fan, you don’t have to like everything they do but to come on a DT fan site and be surprised when a bunch of people like their new song and push back on those that don’t is a bit weird.
For clarity, DT are my favourite band so I guess I could be described as a fanboy. I don’t like every song they’ve ever done but I like every album they’ve ever done. In terms of this new song, I like it more every time I hear it. Love JLB on this song, the melodies in the verses are really nice, now that they’ve sunk in, it sounds great, production wise and it’s a nice little solo by JP. I still don’t think it’s a stunning chorus but, let’s be honest, that’s not really their forte. Overall a decent attempt at a “single”. Better than some, not as good as others.
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You aren't a "fanboy" just because you like most or all of a particular artist's output. If a particular artist resonates with you, chances are that, unless they radically change their sound, what they do in the future will likely resonate with you as well. I have a number of artists I feel that way about. In terms of just blindly lapping up an artist's output, I think the "fanboy" label only applies when it is clear that a person refuses to be objective, which does not apply here. For instance, there is a certain frequent flyer in the Queensryche thread who tries to argue that Geoff Tate sounds fantastic, has not lost a significant part of his ability, and continues to sing correctly. Anyone who chooses to like Tate and think he sounds fine, that's great. Enjoy what you enjoy. But at least the second two of those three points are objectively, demonstrably false, and I would argue that the first is pretty darned close. To argue against those kinds of objective facts or to brush valid criticism aside is blind "fanboyism." But, again, that isn't the case here.
It's an interesting expression. I'm not sure if we can choose to like something or not, but I'm pretty sure we choose if we're more tolerant of some artists and not others.
Neal Morse is my perfect example of this. I'm condescending to Neal's work, whether it's the lyrics (which I actively dislike) or a certain sameness throughout most of his career. These are things that bother me, but I try to let it go (which is why I always go back to the artist).
In the case of DT, considering the repercussions of TA and the moment of their career (they are no longer the young people they were), I imagined that it would be very likely that they would head on into a "safer" moment of their career. As I mentioned before, so far I'm right in my expectations (let's see what I haven't heard yet). And here comes another concession with the band, I understood the moment and accepted it. I can get tired of this later.
After all, these are situations that always come up. We, consciously or not, choose to accept or reject the new moments, the bands' new directions, the new members.
Personally, what I find very irritating is how many people have made the choice to reject (again, consciously or not) and act like they don't (and the Queensryche example is excellent).
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It's "stans" now, people. Get with the times. :neverusethis:
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We're not hip and we're troglodytes here... Why do you think dt forum is the most popular extant forum? :lol kidding
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To address the criticism, and the "balance" issue just a bit:
This comes up every time there is something new. And, basically, I allow discussion to be pretty free here. People are certainly entitled to have their opinions of DT material. And, perhaps moreso than way back in the days of the official forum, people are entitled to express those opinions, whether positive or negative. They just need to be expressed in a respectful way. And, in my opinion as the guy who has the final say on the rules, I think that is the healthiest approach. I've been around and around this issue with most of the band members, and my philosophy is that it is best to let people discuss freely, within certain bounds. And since I feel that DT is pretty consistent about putting out quality music that they have taken their time to thoughtfully construct, I think that even the negative opinions are beneficial to them, because those opinions invite discussion that, on balance, ends up ultimately being constructive.
But do some comments cross the line? Yeah. I think some do, even if we let them go and don't say anything. Keep in mind that the goal isn't "It's just my opinion, and I'm just telling the truth." Opinions can be offered using tact and diplomacy, and some of you lack that. As was rightly pointed out, making music is a job for these guys, and sometimes people on a job don't always put out a 100% airtight, top-quality product. But by the same token, this is art, and the DT guys are artists. They pour themselves into their art, and present it to us, the fans, as something for us to enjoy. If your kid made poured him/herself into a piece of art and gave it to you, and you said, "Meh, this is dull and uninspired," my opinion is that you seriously lack tact and understanding and should check yourself. I think we make the mistake of forgetting that this music is a labor of love presented as a gift to the fans, and I think the reasons we forget (or simply discount that fact) is that the band members are semi-public figures and make a profit from selling their art. But I think we would do well to remember the human side that I mentioned a couple of lines above.
Anyhow, bottom line is, as long as the discussion stays relatively respectful, which it largely does, the mods and I will not interfere. Feel free to like or dislike what suits your tastes. Discuss away. But try to keep it within reasonable bounds.
This obviously was posted due to my comments also. Elite did a good job breaking it down. Same as Elite, while my comments are to the point, I don't feel why one should need to beat around the bush. I mostly agree with all of this fwiw anyway, although I do slightly have an issue with the bolded sentence.
I don't think that's a fair comparison. I don't have kids, but do you really think I'd approach what my kid created the same as a song from a band I listen to? Do I have to be worried about hurting the bands feelings or something? Would they really care what I think the same my kid would care what I think of their work, not a chance. Obviously, if I'm going to tear down a song from my favourite band, I'm certainly not going to react the same way to my kid, that's a bit far fetched.
Anyway, apologies if I crossed the line also, but I've said my thoughts and will simply wait for the album to discuss any further.
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Oomph? that's one of the problems with later DT, after a big climax they repeat the same chorus. The Alien was a little different, but the last time I remember the last chorus having any major change from the other choruses was Beyond This Life.
AT WITS END?????? Come On!
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Well, I finally clicked play on it. Found a few moments of it enjoyable, but where's the prog? Where's the metal? By-and-large, it sounded like a lot of musical ideas that weren't even good enough for The Astonishing. And for those that know my thoughts on that album, I think that's enough about that.
I haven't read every post on these last 10+ pages, but it seems a lot of the "negative" opinions of the song are coming from the long-standing members here... those of us that have been along with DT for 20+ years. Now, I don't know how many of the new members are new to DTF but have listened to the band for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if this plays a role - those of us who've listened to the band evolve in real time from the earliest days of their career are saddened by what we now hear them putting out - to me, this song leaves me with a sense of devolution. I think I said it in The Alien thread - it's like I'm watching my favorite aging athlete who just can't perform up to even mediocre standards anymore.
I'll give the album a fair shake, but these first two singles leave me very worried.
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Well, I finally clicked play on it. Found a few moments of it enjoyable, but where's the prog? Where's the metal? By-and-large, it sounded like a lot of musical ideas that weren't even good enough for The Astonishing. And for those that know my thoughts on that album, I think that's enough about that.
I haven't read every post on these last 10+ pages, but it seems a lot of the "negative" opinions of the song are coming from the long-standing members here... those of us that have been along with DT for 20+ years. Now, I don't know how many of the new members are new to DTF but have listened to the band for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if this plays a role - those of us who've listened to the band evolve in real time from the earliest days of their career are saddened by what we now hear them putting out - to me, this song leaves me with a sense of devolution. I think I said it in The Alien thread - it's like I'm watching my favorite aging athlete who just can't perform up to even mediocre standards anymore.
I'll give the album a fair shake, but these first two singles leave me very worried.
Agree on IM, but I'm surprised you say that about The Alien. That song is an upgrade sonically, and is generally an evolution in sound
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Well, I finally clicked play on it. Found a few moments of it enjoyable, but where's the prog? Where's the metal? By-and-large, it sounded like a lot of musical ideas that weren't even good enough for The Astonishing. And for those that know my thoughts on that album, I think that's enough about that.
I haven't read every post on these last 10+ pages, but it seems a lot of the "negative" opinions of the song are coming from the long-standing members here... those of us that have been along with DT for 20+ years. Now, I don't know how many of the new members are new to DTF but have listened to the band for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if this plays a role - those of us who've listened to the band evolve in real time from the earliest days of their career are saddened by what we now hear them putting out - to me, this song leaves me with a sense of devolution. I think I said it in The Alien thread - it's like I'm watching my favorite aging athlete who just can't perform up to even mediocre standards anymore.
I'll give the album a fair shake, but these first two singles leave me very worried.
Valid view, and I think it has a great deal to do with it. I went through the same thing with Yes, with each latter era album slowly getting less and less listenable, until Heaven and Earth came out, which I turned off midway through and never revisited. Now mind you, ivbeen listening to Yes for 45 fucking years, seen them live countless times, and shaped decades of music life around them. They just lost it man.
I'm dearly hoping this isn't a Heaven and Earth moment for me with DT, a band I've adored since 92 and will adore most of their work for years to come.
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Well, I finally clicked play on it. Found a few moments of it enjoyable, but where's the prog? Where's the metal? By-and-large, it sounded like a lot of musical ideas that weren't even good enough for The Astonishing. And for those that know my thoughts on that album, I think that's enough about that.
I haven't read every post on these last 10+ pages, but it seems a lot of the "negative" opinions of the song are coming from the long-standing members here... those of us that have been along with DT for 20+ years. Now, I don't know how many of the new members are new to DTF but have listened to the band for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if this plays a role - those of us who've listened to the band evolve in real time from the earliest days of their career are saddened by what we now hear them putting out - to me, this song leaves me with a sense of devolution. I think I said it in The Alien thread - it's like I'm watching my favorite aging athlete who just can't perform up to even mediocre standards anymore.
I'll give the album a fair shake, but these first two singles leave me very worried.
Well I've been following the band for 25 years. Wear over time is expected and normal.
But let's remember that "Dream Theater and negative reception" are nothing new, right? FII, ToT, SC.
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Well, I finally clicked play on it. Found a few moments of it enjoyable, but where's the prog? Where's the metal? By-and-large, it sounded like a lot of musical ideas that weren't even good enough for The Astonishing. And for those that know my thoughts on that album, I think that's enough about that.
I haven't read every post on these last 10+ pages, but it seems a lot of the "negative" opinions of the song are coming from the long-standing members here... those of us that have been along with DT for 20+ years. Now, I don't know how many of the new members are new to DTF but have listened to the band for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if this plays a role - those of us who've listened to the band evolve in real time from the earliest days of their career are saddened by what we now hear them putting out - to me, this song leaves me with a sense of devolution. I think I said it in The Alien thread - it's like I'm watching my favorite aging athlete who just can't perform up to even mediocre standards anymore.
I'll give the album a fair shake, but these first two singles leave me very worried.
Well I've been following the band for 25 years. Wear over time is expected and normal.
But let's remember that "Dream Theater and negative reception" are nothing new, right? FII, ToT, SC.
Boy ain't that the truth. Nobody hates Dream Theater more than their own fans :lol
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Well, I finally clicked play on it. Found a few moments of it enjoyable, but where's the prog? Where's the metal? By-and-large, it sounded like a lot of musical ideas that weren't even good enough for The Astonishing. And for those that know my thoughts on that album, I think that's enough about that.
I haven't read every post on these last 10+ pages, but it seems a lot of the "negative" opinions of the song are coming from the long-standing members here... those of us that have been along with DT for 20+ years. Now, I don't know how many of the new members are new to DTF but have listened to the band for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if this plays a role - those of us who've listened to the band evolve in real time from the earliest days of their career are saddened by what we now hear them putting out - to me, this song leaves me with a sense of devolution. I think I said it in The Alien thread - it's like I'm watching my favorite aging athlete who just can't perform up to even mediocre standards anymore.
I'll give the album a fair shake, but these first two singles leave me very worried.
Well I've been following the band for 25 years. Wear over time is expected and normal.
But let's remember that "Dream Theater and negative reception" are nothing new, right? FII, ToT, SC.
Boy ain't that the truth. Nobody hates Dream Theater more than their own fans :lol
We will not rest while this band (and all its members) walk the Earth. >:( >:( >:(
:lol
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I've generally come to accept that we aren't getting an album like SFAM or I&W anymore. A huge part of that is due to Labrie aging which gives the band a considerably narrower range to write vocal melodies in. We aren't getting the bridge from Another Day or Anna Lee anymore because it's simply not even possible.
However, I really liked DoT and think AWE is the best song they have made since SDOIT. I have felt the band being on an upward progression from the Self Titled through DoT.
I really expected this to be the album they truly crushed it with a fantastic return to magical form, but outside of the production being an upgrade it would appear, based on the singles that this is who Dream Theater is now.
I still love them and think they are still one of the best bands making music today. That will never change as long as JP is in the band.
It is extremely unreasonable to expect a band 32 years in to their career to make albums like their prime. It just hardly ever if ever happens.
My only disappointment is that they used up some of their "prime" years to explore a music style I'm not in love with (TOT-BC&SL).
Now I feel they are looking to return to their 90's form a bit but are simply not spring chickens anymore.
Still.... I feel like every DT album since 1989 has brought something great to the table and I have no doubt that AVFTTOTW will be no different. I'm still holding out hope that IM (which I don't even dislike) is one of the weakest tracks on the album and that the album will still slay us all.
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Actually I don't remember "that much negative opinions" about the new album singles (starting with SC/Forsaken). Sure there were many for previous albums which I recall A Rite Of Passage took many caning but not that The Alien/IM level. I hope the rest 5 songs make many of us satisfied.
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I've generally come to accept that we aren't getting an album like SFAM or I&W anymore. A huge part of that is due to Labrie aging which gives the band a considerably narrower range to write vocal melodies in.
I don't agree with this at all. James was amazing on The Astonishing, as were the melodies.
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I've generally come to accept that we aren't getting an album like SFAM or I&W anymore. A huge part of that is due to Labrie aging which gives the band a considerably narrower range to write vocal melodies in.
I don't agree with this at all. James was amazing on The Astonishing, as were the melodies.
I love The Astonishing and think James did a great job but I still don't think his voice had the same power or range that it used to by any means and that was a huge part of the appeal of the band when I first fell in love with them.
Not to mention the fact that The Astonishing was 5 years ago and I think that those 5 years have made a difference.
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Still.... I feel like every DT album since 1989 has brought something great to the table and I have no doubt that AVFTTOTW will be no different. I'm still holding out hope that IM (which I don't even dislike) is one of the weakest tracks on the album and that the album will still slay us all.
yap, my words...
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Well, I finally clicked play on it. Found a few moments of it enjoyable, but where's the prog? Where's the metal? By-and-large, it sounded like a lot of musical ideas that weren't even good enough for The Astonishing. And for those that know my thoughts on that album, I think that's enough about that.
I haven't read every post on these last 10+ pages, but it seems a lot of the "negative" opinions of the song are coming from the long-standing members here... those of us that have been along with DT for 20+ years. Now, I don't know how many of the new members are new to DTF but have listened to the band for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if this plays a role - those of us who've listened to the band evolve in real time from the earliest days of their career are saddened by what we now hear them putting out - to me, this song leaves me with a sense of devolution. I think I said it in The Alien thread - it's like I'm watching my favorite aging athlete who just can't perform up to even mediocre standards anymore.
I'll give the album a fair shake, but these first two singles leave me very worried.
Well said, agree with pretty much everything.
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I've generally come to accept that we aren't getting an album like SFAM or I&W anymore. A huge part of that is due to Labrie aging which gives the band a considerably narrower range to write vocal melodies in. We aren't getting the bridge from Another Day or Anna Lee anymore because it's simply not even possible.
However, I really liked DoT and think AWE is the best song they have made since SDOIT. I have felt the band being on an upward progression from the Self Titled through DoT.
I really expected this to be the album they truly crushed it with a fantastic return to magical form, but outside of the production being an upgrade it would appear, based on the singles that this is who Dream Theater is now.
I still love them and think they are still one of the best bands making music today. That will never change as long as JP is in the band.
It is extremely unreasonable to expect a band 32 years in to their career to make albums like their prime. It just hardly ever if ever happens.
My only disappointment is that they used up some of their "prime" years to explore a music style I'm not in love with (TOT-BC&SL).
Now I feel they are looking to return to their 90's form a bit but are simply not spring chickens anymore.
Still.... I feel like every DT album since 1989 has brought something great to the table and I have no doubt that AVFTTOTW will be no different. I'm still holding out hope that IM (which I don't even dislike) is one of the weakest tracks on the album and that the album will still slay us all.
Yes.
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I gave it a second listen after 24 hrs, still blah.
As I was listening my ears told me Mangini was playing too much for what the song called for. He seemed on 10 while everyone else was 5 or 6.
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My only disappointment is that they used up some of their "prime" years to explore a music style I'm not in love with (TOT-BC&SL).
Now I feel they are looking to return to their 90's form a bit but are simply not spring chickens anymore.
I agree. That's why I always expressed the opinion that TOT was an album that "hindered" the direction of the band. Evidently from my perspective, of course.
After SFAM and SDOIT, they had everything to produce an entire album like Octavarium (the song, of course).
But they decided to try a heavier album, then some emulation of other bands etc.
Okay, they were fair choices too, as much as I don't like it that much
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There has to be something else at play. A reason why they don't produce an album full of octavariums. Two things come to mind right away, one of which is something jp has talked about
1) JP began to like the way headbanging songs felt for him while he played live... And he's been chasing that
2) they seem to worry that an album full of octavariums would sell no records
3) it must be damn hard to write a song like octavarium. As has been alluded to previously, if making records is their job, can we really expect them to go 100% into every measure, all the time? I sure as hell don't do that at my job :blush
Edit - jp has explicitly stated #1. Number 2 is my speculation
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Wait a minute, do people not like Behind The Veil? That’s a really cool song.
Some do, and some don't. Others think it's just kind of OK.
You know, like every other DT song.
a MEDLEY would have been better!!!!!
A medley is almost never better.
I personally have a little constrained feelings about that song. It's nice, so nice, melodic, but so simple, so predictable with tons of 'dt heard moments before'
Middle section somewhere between 2,20' and 3' is pretty good.
Production/sound is on high level.
I hope it'll work like UA on DoT to me, my least favourite song on it.
Vlasto! It's been so long! I feel like a celebration is almost in order!
We'll think of something.
If a medley is done right I think it can be a better insight to the overall direction and quality of an album. But its only my opinion.
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My only disappointment is that they used up some of their "prime" years to explore a music style I'm not in love with (TOT-BC&SL).
Interesting...While I was just ok with ToT and SC, BC&SL was such a refreshing turn for me, especially TCoT my favorite DT song. Then they went into ADToE and I was so elated that they were back to a more melodic prog style, but that all went down for me real quick. I think it's to their credit that they're so diverse that they can satisfy such a huge chunk of fans with some stuff while simultaneously pissing off so many, and then other work has the opposite effects. No matter, they're DT, they're part of my musical genome, and they got me as a fan for better or worse till the day I die.
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Just realized that this song, lyrically, is the cousin to The Enemy Inside.
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BC&SL was such a refreshing turn for me, especially TCoT my favorite DT song.
I did not know that. That's awesome. An amazing track.
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I've generally come to accept that we aren't getting an album like SFAM or I&W anymore. A huge part of that is due to Labrie aging which gives the band a considerably narrower range to write vocal melodies in. We aren't getting the bridge from Another Day or Anna Lee anymore because it's simply not even possible.
Oh, I gave up on that years ago! SC and BCSL I always had a lot to like about, even if there were moments of blech (for my tastes). Like lonestar said, the return to more melodic/prog on ADTOE was awesome. DT12 was good one as well. For me, they completely lost the plot with TA. DoT got them somewhat back on track, even with the over-production (esp with James), and a more rock/metal vibe than prog (for the most part).
I guess it's kinda hard for a band that hits it's peak with their 2nd album. But overall, their trend line for me is going downward over the last 4 albums.
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There has to be something else at play. A reason why they don't produce an album full of octavariums. Two things come to mind right away, one of which is something jp has talked about
1) JP began to like the way headbanging songs felt for him while he played live... And he's been chasing that
2) they seem to worry that an album full of octavariums would sell no records
3) it must be damn hard to write a song like octavarium. As has been alluded to previously, if making records is their job, can we really expect them to go 100% into every measure, all the time? I sure as hell don't do that at my job :blush
Edit - jp has explicitly stated #1. Number 2 is my speculation
I don't think that is exactly right as to "why" they don't write an entire album of Octavarium.
Regarding #1, I don't think that is entirely accurate. JP has always been a metal head, even before the band was formed, and he has talked about that. Yes, he likes playing metal live. But it isn't something new that "began" sometime recently.
For #2, I doubt that is even a concern. The fan reaction to the song Octavarium is overwhelmingly positive. I don't think they worry about not selling albums. But I also don't think writing an album with 3-4 mega epics is a good move, and I think they would agree.
For #3...I don't know what you mean. Do you mean it is hard for them to write long songs? They've written mega-epics since then (ITPOE, TCOT, IT, and AVFTTOTW). Or do you mean songs with a mix of classic prog and metal? That describes most of their material. So I'm really confused about what you mean by that.
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I can't remember if it's on the Romavarium DVD..but there a spot where JP is talking about the 8V album, and I have never in all of my years of being a DT fan seen him gush over an album like he did 8V.
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To #1, I recall him saying that he loved the reaction as I am (I think it was that) was getting live and wanted more of it. Anyone back me up on this? It's also noteworthy that his gear choice has been getting steadily heavier, think Ibanez to music man and now 8 string? This is the progression in observing, not knocking it
To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose
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I don't doubt that he loves the reaction to playing that kind of song live. I'm just saying that that isn't something new. You implied that that "began" at some later stage in his career, but that has always been the case.
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On an unrelated note, we're just 4 weeks away from the album release, so reviewers should be getting their promo copies quite soon (if they haven't already, don't know how that works). This means we'll soon have a few more DTFers with access to the album so we can hopefully get more opinions/perspectives on the new album without having to put all the pressure on Glasser/Bosk to answer these questions ;D
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On an unrelated note, we're just 4 weeks away from the album release, so reviewers should be getting their promo copies quite soon (if they haven't already, don't know how that works). This means we'll soon have a few more DTFers with access to the album so we can hopefully get more opinions/perspectives on the new album without having to put all the pressure on Glasser/Bosk to answer these questions ;D
We don't need it, Bosk can give us all the information we want, like in this example:
It is good. :)
:biggrin:
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Only JM could've said it better :lol
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Album is gonna be epic
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I can't remember if it's on the Romavarium DVD..but there a spot where JP is talking about the 8V album, and I have never in all of my years of being a DT fan seen him gush over an album like he did 8V.
I seem to remember him saying it was the album he’d play to someone who wanted to know what Dream Theater were like. Something like that, like it was the quintessential DT album. Ironically it’s my least favourite DT album and absolutely the last album I’d play to someone to show them what DT are like!
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To #1, I recall him saying that he loved the reaction as I am (I think it was that) was getting live and wanted more of it. Anyone back me up on this? It's also noteworthy that his gear choice has been getting steadily heavier, think Ibanez to music man and now 8 string? This is the progression in observing, not knocking it
To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose
I remember JP saying at the time of TOT’s release that they loved how amped the crowd would get for a song like The Glass Prison so they decided to make an album full of those songs. Weirdly, I’m not sure if they ever played The Glass Prison again! If they did, it’s very rare.
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To #1, I recall him saying that he loved the reaction as I am (I think it was that) was getting live and wanted more of it. Anyone back me up on this? It's also noteworthy that his gear choice has been getting steadily heavier, think Ibanez to music man and now 8 string? This is the progression in observing, not knocking it
To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose
I remember JP saying at the time of TOT’s release that they loved how amped the crowd would get for a song like The Glass Prison so they decided to make an album full of those songs. Weirdly, I’m not sure if they ever played The Glass Prison again! If they did, it’s very rare.
They played it on Gigantour, which I believe was during the Octavarium album cycle, if I remember correctly.
EDIT: Yeah, it was during the Octavarium tour cycle. I just checked the tour subforum. (and I subsequently recall that they also played Panic Attack) But, yeah, I'm not sure they've played it since then. They should. I nagged JP about it awhile back, and am hoping it resurfaces at some point soon.
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To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose
Meh, Illumination Theory blows Octavarium out of the water in terms of ordered complexity but I don't want to go down that road again and derail the thread. If they do an album full of Octavariums, I am pretty sure I will listen to it but not the way I binge listen (to this day) Distance Over Time, with songs that are complex without being excessive. And as somebody who has done a fair amount of composing (albeit in a very different genre), it takes much more effort to compose a complex song that is short than one that is quite indulgent.
On topic, I once shared that I heard my 8-year old son humming the outro guitar solo of The Alien. Well, yesterday, I heard him AND MY 5-year old daughter humming along to the keyboard melody of the intro of Invisible Monster. :lol From my experience playing music, children actually are much better barometers of the melodic hook of a song than us old farts. :rollin
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bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys! What's your affiliation?
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I've only listened to the entire album a handful of times (enough to be generally familiar so I can do my job and authenticate leaks, etc.),
Let us know when you've authenicated a leak! ;D
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bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys! What's your affiliation?
:watchman:
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bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys! What's your affiliation?
And I always thought I was late to the party! I feel better now! :)
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bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys! What's your affiliation?
:watchman:
I may have rolled off the bed laughing.
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To #1, I recall him saying that he loved the reaction as I am (I think it was that) was getting live and wanted more of it. Anyone back me up on this? It's also noteworthy that his gear choice has been getting steadily heavier, think Ibanez to music man and now 8 string? This is the progression in observing, not knocking it
To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose
I remember JP saying at the time of TOT’s release that they loved how amped the crowd would get for a song like The Glass Prison so they decided to make an album full of those songs. Weirdly, I’m not sure if they ever played The Glass Prison again! If they did, it’s very rare.
Oh yea, that's what I was referring to. Makes a lot of sense
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bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys! What's your affiliation?
:watchman:
:lol
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I think a lot of this boils down to the type of metal JP loves. I feel like up until SDOIT dream theater always had a little hair metal and AOR vibe in addition to the metallica dark vibe.
I really miss that side of them… which is why I loved out of reach as it reminds me of an 80’s ballad.
Hair metal isn’t my favorite genre by any means but it worked for dream theater with the soaring vocals and 80’s/90’s production. When they stripped the hair metal and went more Nu metal that is when they went down a path I didn’t love.
While ADTOE went more melodic it still didn’t have that 80’s vibe that they used to have. I think they brought a lot of that back on DOT and even had a Van Halen inspired bonus track.
So count of Tuscany…. I love it but I don’t love Labrie on it… he’s still doing the Hetfield thing and not the over the top vocals I fell in love with. When you listen to disc two of BC&SL it makes you realize that James still had the chops but it was a conscious decision by the band to sing in a more modern way. Was smart for album sales and to avoid sounding dated but it wasn’t my favorite stuff.
I used to describe them as Styx meets Metallica and that description drifted further from accuracy until the self titled started to bring that back imo. ADTOE still doesn’t feel that way to me.
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bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys! What's your affiliation?
:watchman:
Yes?
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bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys! What's your affiliation?
:watchman:
Yes?
That was going to be my response :rollin
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To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose
Meh, Illumination Theory blows Octavarium out of the water in terms of ordered complexity but I don't want to go down that road again and derail the thread. If they do an album full of Octavariums, I am pretty sure I will listen to it but not the way I binge listen (to this day) Distance Over Time, with songs that are complex without being excessive. And as somebody who has done a fair amount of composing (albeit in a very different genre), it takes much more effort to compose a complex song that is short than one that is quite indulgent.
On topic, I once shared that I heard my 8-year old son humming the outro guitar solo of The Alien. Well, yesterday, I heard him AND MY 5-year old daughter humming along to the keyboard melody of the intro of Invisible Monster. :lol From my experience playing music, children actually are much better barometers of the melodic hook of a song than us old farts. :rollin
Has there been a thread about this? Would love to see it. I can't imagine how illumination theory is more complex than 8vn
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bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys! What's your affiliation?
:watchman:
:rollin :rollin I almost burst into tears laughing. Why is that an emote?
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bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys! What's your affiliation?
:watchman:
Yes?
:lol
And also: >:(
But mostly: :lol
I know the band and a lot of their touring, management, and marketing team because of my work here. I know all of the band members, but typically communicate with JP.
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Why is that an emote?
Because I couldn't remember my Imgur password, and it was easier to just upload it into the emotes folder here. :p
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When Laziness and Power Unite
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Why is that an emote?
Because I couldn't remember my Imgur password, and it was easier to just upload it into the emotes folder here. :p
Wait, there’s an emotes folder on this site? Like outside the thirty or so on the reply page?
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Oh, yes. There are many, MANY hidden emoticons. For example:
:JP:
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Oh, yes. There are many, MANY hidden emoticons. For example:
:JP:
How am I just learning about this now? I feel like an outsider. Do you need special permission to know these secrets?
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bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys! What's your affiliation?
:watchman:
Yes?
:lol
And also: >:(
But mostly: :lol
I know the band and a lot of their touring, management, and marketing team because of my work here. I know all of the band members, but typically communicate with JP.
Pardon my ignorance mate, I knew it would have been forum related but truthfully didn't know the forum was that closely connected to the band somewhat.
I don't know why I probably should have known that when MP was in the band and had close contact here.
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Oh, yes. There are many, MANY hidden emoticons. For example:
:JP:
How am I just learning about this now? I feel like an outsider. Do you need special permission to know these secrets?
No. You just have to be observant and look for them when posted. There was a thread a long time ago where people listed the ones they knew about. Can't remember whether it still exists.
EDIT: Aha! https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44889.0
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Oh, yes. There are many, MANY hidden emoticons. For example:
:JP:
How am I just learning about this now? I feel like an outsider. Do you need special permission to know these secrets?
No. You just have to be observant and look for them when posted. There was a thread a long time ago where people listed the ones they knew about. Can't remember whether it still exists.
EDIT: Aha! https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44889.0
I've been keeping a list of the ones I've seen. I think I have like 415 or something like that. :imonahorse:
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Someone inspired me to do a full discography listen and I just have to say, images and words... Wow, just wow
We need to ask jp where he got the inspiration for those guitar parts. I think they descended from the heavens
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Oh, yes. There are many, MANY hidden emoticons. For example:
:JP:
How am I just learning about this now? I feel like an outsider. Do you need special permission to know these secrets?
No. You just have to be observant and look for them when posted. There was a thread a long time ago where people listed the ones they knew about. Can't remember whether it still exists.
EDIT: Aha! https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44889.0
I've been keeping a list of the ones I've seen. I think I have like 415 or something like that. :imonahorse:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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Someone inspired me to do a full discography listen and I just have to say, images and words... Wow, just wow
We need to ask jp where he got the inspiration for those guitar parts. I think they descended from the heavens
I guess the same place where he got inspiration for the solo in Barstool Warrior, the outro of At Wit's End, and the outro of The Alien.
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Oh, yes. There are many, MANY hidden emoticons. For example:
:JP:
How am I just learning about this now? I feel like an outsider. Do you need special permission to know these secrets?
No. You just have to be observant and look for them when posted. There was a thread a long time ago where people listed the ones they knew about. Can't remember whether it still exists.
EDIT: Aha! https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44889.0
I think sciopath was close to getting them all, I know he scoured every page of the forum.
:RJ:
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:JP: :JR: :MP: :JM: :JLB:
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Oh, yes. There are many, MANY hidden emoticons. For example:
:JP:
How am I just learning about this now? I feel like an outsider. Do you need special permission to know these secrets?
No. You just have to be observant and look for them when posted. There was a thread a long time ago where people listed the ones they knew about. Can't remember whether it still exists.
EDIT: Aha! https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44889.0
I think sciopath was close to getting them all, I know he scoured every page of the forum.
:RJ:
I seem to recall the number being about 700-800. I honk I’ve got about 400 as well
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Just realized that this song, lyrically, is the cousin to The Enemy Inside.
Ah I've been waiting to bring this up!
JP said this song is about anxiety. Untethered Angel is also about anxiety stopping you from pursuing your dreams.
If we consider PTSD to be a type of anxiety, the three of them together sort of form an anxiety trilogy
A Mind Inside Itself
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I liked the song! Nice!
Not the best "easy" song from DT, but enjoyable.
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Playing all my favourite albums of DT up until the release. Played I&W and queued Invincible Monster after Pull me Under by mistake. It's quite clear how IM does very little to bring any energy, emotions, creative structure or just interesting melodies to the DT catalogue. Another Day isn't a favourite of mine, even if it has wonderful vocals and great bild up, but damn does it sound exciting after hearing IM ;D
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Playing all my favourite albums of DT up until the release. Played I&W and queued Invincible Monster after Pull me Under by mistake. It's quite clear how IM does very little to bring any energy, emotions, creative structure or just interesting melodies to the DT catalogue. Another Day isn't a favourite of mine, even if it has wonderful vocals and great bild up, but damn does it sound exciting after hearing IM ;D
Compared to I&W I fully agree.
Bring Kevin Moore back!!!! ;D
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Well, I finally clicked play on it. Found a few moments of it enjoyable, but where's the prog? Where's the metal? By-and-large, it sounded like a lot of musical ideas that weren't even good enough for The Astonishing. And for those that know my thoughts on that album, I think that's enough about that.
I haven't read every post on these last 10+ pages, but it seems a lot of the "negative" opinions of the song are coming from the long-standing members here... those of us that have been along with DT for 20+ years. Now, I don't know how many of the new members are new to DTF but have listened to the band for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if this plays a role - those of us who've listened to the band evolve in real time from the earliest days of their career are saddened by what we now hear them putting out - to me, this song leaves me with a sense of devolution. I think I said it in The Alien thread - it's like I'm watching my favorite aging athlete who just can't perform up to even mediocre standards anymore.
I'll give the album a fair shake, but these first two singles leave me very worried.
I've been along for the ride (😁) since 1992 and don't see any signs of DT devolving. If anything I feel they keep breaking new ground and have stayed relevant. If you go back to I&W, you can hear the late eighties influence but also moving forward. With Awake, it's darker and heavier with more of a 90's vibe. When I listen to both of those albums, they seem a bit retro compared to what they are doing now.
They've all grown as musicians and have not shown any sign of slowing down, and have managed to keep things fresh from one album to another. I don't hear any mediocrity or settling for less, if anything they keep raising the bar.
Where is the prog or metal you ask? I think The Alien certainly qualifies and I bet that's just a small taste of what remains to be heard. I mean heck, we get a 20 minute+ epic coming our way to close the new album. Sure, Invisible Monster is more straight forward, but what DT album doesn't have something like that? I respect your opinion, but I just don't see DT losing any steam at this point..
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:jamaritard: :splodetard: :getoffmylawn: :ontome: :emo:
Few of my faves.
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:jamaritard: :splodetard: :getoffmylawn: :ontome: :emo:
Few of my faves.
Wrong thread.. :eek
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Well, I finally clicked play on it. Found a few moments of it enjoyable, but where's the prog? Where's the metal? By-and-large, it sounded like a lot of musical ideas that weren't even good enough for The Astonishing. And for those that know my thoughts on that album, I think that's enough about that.
I haven't read every post on these last 10+ pages, but it seems a lot of the "negative" opinions of the song are coming from the long-standing members here... those of us that have been along with DT for 20+ years. Now, I don't know how many of the new members are new to DTF but have listened to the band for a long time, but I can't help but wonder if this plays a role - those of us who've listened to the band evolve in real time from the earliest days of their career are saddened by what we now hear them putting out - to me, this song leaves me with a sense of devolution. I think I said it in The Alien thread - it's like I'm watching my favorite aging athlete who just can't perform up to even mediocre standards anymore.
I'll give the album a fair shake, but these first two singles leave me very worried.
I've been along for the ride (😁) since 1992 and don't see any signs of DT devolving. If anything I feel they keep breaking new ground and have stayed relevant. If you go back to I&W, you can hear the late eighties influence but also moving forward. With Awake, it's darker and heavier with more of a 90's vibe. When I listen to both of those albums, they seem a bit retro compared to what they are doing now.
They've all grown as musicians and have not shown any sign of slowing down, and have managed to keep things fresh from one album to another. I don't hear any mediocrity or settling for less, if anything they keep raising the bar.
Where is the prog or metal you ask? I think The Alien certainly qualifies and I bet that's just a small taste of what remains to be heard. I mean heck, we get a 20 minute+ epic coming our way to close the new album. Sure, Invisible Monster is more straight forward, but what DT album doesn't have something like that? I respect your opinion, but I just don't see DT losing any steam at this point..
Good perspective. I also think that more straight forward songs lik IM are carefully crafted to give the band members sort of a breather in a live setting given the overall complexity of the DT catalogue in a 2 - 3 hour live show.
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Late to the party. I just listened in car, cranked. There is just so much power in this sound. The song is good, its an easy listen for sure. At this point after reading all the negative comments on the internet I have to say maybe its time to chill a bit. I am just as guilty of the next DT fan trying to chase the dragon on that feeling at 15 y/o I got when listening to the drum fill on 6:00 for the 1st time and then like needing a cigarette after awake ended…but if the alien was followed up by invisible monster at that age I may have actually pooped my pants. That is all.
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Playing all my favourite albums of DT up until the release. Played I&W and queued Invincible Monster after Pull me Under by mistake. It's quite clear how IM does very little to bring any energy, emotions, creative structure or just interesting melodies to the DT catalogue. Another Day isn't a favourite of mine, even if it has wonderful vocals and great bild up, but damn does it sound exciting after hearing IM ;D
A while back I was listening to some songs from Awake, then I put on a track from DoT and had to turn it off soon after because JLB's vocals are so processed and strained, the production is so brick walled, and the energy is disjointed (I don't feel anything from MM's drumming, JR's contributions have become tiresome). It's a sad state of affairs.
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Playing all my favourite albums of DT up until the release. Played I&W and queued Invincible Monster after Pull me Under by mistake. It's quite clear how IM does very little to bring any energy, emotions, creative structure or just interesting melodies to the DT catalogue. Another Day isn't a favourite of mine, even if it has wonderful vocals and great bild up, but damn does it sound exciting after hearing IM ;D
A while back I was listening to some songs from Awake, then I put on a track from DoT and had to turn it off soon after because JLB's vocals are so processed and strained, the production is so brick walled, and the energy is disjointed (I don't feel anything from MM's drumming, JR's contributions have become tiresome). It's a sad state of affairs.
I can agree on JLB’s vocals, but I think that is a result of «masking» the decline in his vocal abilities which has amplified with age (last time I saw DT live JLB’s vocals were not in a great shape to say the least). On DOT being brickwalled, I’ll challenge mildly as I think Noxon conceete evidence that it is not , but I might be wrong. On MM and JR thats a subjective opinion that I don’t necessarily share. Other than that, based on your post, it is clear that DT is not your cup of tea anymore and hasn’t been for a long time. I genuinly wonder why you spend so much energy on something that clearly gives you negative experience…
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Playing all my favourite albums of DT up until the release. Played I&W and queued Invincible Monster after Pull me Under by mistake. It's quite clear how IM does very little to bring any energy, emotions, creative structure or just interesting melodies to the DT catalogue. Another Day isn't a favourite of mine, even if it has wonderful vocals and great bild up, but damn does it sound exciting after hearing IM ;D
A while back I was listening to some songs from Awake, then I put on a track from DoT and had to turn it off soon after because JLB's vocals are so processed and strained, the production is so brick walled, and the energy is disjointed (I don't feel anything from MM's drumming, JR's contributions have become tiresome). It's a sad state of affairs.
I can agree on JLB’s vocals, but I think that is a result of «masking» the decline in his vocal abilities which has amplified with age (last time I saw DT live JLB’s vocals were not in a great shape to say the least). On DOT being brickwalled, I’ll challenge mildly as I think Noxon conceete evidence that it is not , but I might be wrong. On MM and JR thats a subjective opinion that I don’t necessarily share. Other than that, based on your post, it is clear that DT is not your cup of tea anymore and hasn’t been for a long time. I genuinly wonder why you spend so much energy on something that clearly gives you negative experience…
The production of DoT, TA, and DT12 are all much worse than Iaw, Awake, FII, and so on, all the newer albums are mastered very hot. Maybe DoT is 'better' but it's still a victim of the loudness wars.
I learned not to follow up a 90s DT album with a 2010s DT album. I still enjoy a few modern era songs in a bubble, I still hope for a solid release with MM. I'm giving DT one last chance with DT15
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Playing all my favourite albums of DT up until the release. Played I&W and queued Invincible Monster after Pull me Under by mistake. It's quite clear how IM does very little to bring any energy, emotions, creative structure or just interesting melodies to the DT catalogue. Another Day isn't a favourite of mine, even if it has wonderful vocals and great bild up, but damn does it sound exciting after hearing IM ;D
A while back I was listening to some songs from Awake, then I put on a track from DoT and had to turn it off soon after because JLB's vocals are so processed and strained, the production is so brick walled, and the energy is disjointed (I don't feel anything from MM's drumming, JR's contributions have become tiresome). It's a sad state of affairs.
I can agree on JLB’s vocals, but I think that is a result of «masking» the decline in his vocal abilities which has amplified with age (last time I saw DT live JLB’s vocals were not in a great shape to say the least). On DOT being brickwalled, I’ll challenge mildly as I think Noxon conceete evidence that it is not , but I might be wrong. On MM and JR thats a subjective opinion that I don’t necessarily share. Other than that, based on your post, it is clear that DT is not your cup of tea anymore and hasn’t been for a long time. I genuinly wonder why you spend so much energy on something that clearly gives you negative experience…
The original CD is: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159329
Note: scores that low in the red are not good (the range is 00 to 14).
I will defend DT's songwriting in the Mangini era, and cries that their arrangements have gotten worse in the last 10 years really do not make a whole lotta sense, but the mix and productions of their albums with Mangini are very iffy. I finally got my kick ass surround sound system recently (after years of talking about it), have been listening to all kinds of different stuff. It has been a good reminder of what albums sound really good and what albums do not. Those 90's DT albums still sounds great. I had to shut Breaking All Illusions from A Dramatic Turn of Events (a song I am a big fan of) off about halfway through because of how bad the sound was on a good system. It is so obvious, which is why I am baffled when some applaud the mix and production of that album. Its flaws in that regard are glaring and plain as day. And it's too bad because the songwriting is mostly excellent.
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IM doesn't really do it for me but I'll save future listens for when the album comes out.
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Playing all my favourite albums of DT up until the release. Played I&W and queued Invincible Monster after Pull me Under by mistake. It's quite clear how IM does very little to bring any energy, emotions, creative structure or just interesting melodies to the DT catalogue. Another Day isn't a favourite of mine, even if it has wonderful vocals and great bild up, but damn does it sound exciting after hearing IM ;D
A while back I was listening to some songs from Awake, then I put on a track from DoT and had to turn it off soon after because JLB's vocals are so processed and strained, the production is so brick walled, and the energy is disjointed (I don't feel anything from MM's drumming, JR's contributions have become tiresome). It's a sad state of affairs.
I can agree on JLB’s vocals, but I think that is a result of «masking» the decline in his vocal abilities which has amplified with age (last time I saw DT live JLB’s vocals were not in a great shape to say the least). On DOT being brickwalled, I’ll challenge mildly as I think Noxon conceete evidence that it is not , but I might be wrong. On MM and JR thats a subjective opinion that I don’t necessarily share. Other than that, based on your post, it is clear that DT is not your cup of tea anymore and hasn’t been for a long time. I genuinly wonder why you spend so much energy on something that clearly gives you negative experience…
The original CD is: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159329
Note: scores that low in the red are not good (the range is 00 to 14).
I will defend DT's songwriting in the Mangini era, and cries that their arrangements have gotten worse in the last 10 years really do not make a whole lotta sense, but the mix and productions of their albums with Mangini are very iffy. I finally got my kick ass surround sound system recently (after years of talking about it), have been listening to all kinds of different stuff. It has been a good reminder of what albums sound really good and what albums do not. Those 90's DT albums still sounds great. I had to shut Breaking All Illusions from A Dramatic Turn of Events (a song I am a big fan of) off about halfway through because of how bad the sound was on a good system. It is so obvious, which is why I am baffled when some applaud the mix and production of that album. Its flaws in that regard are glaring and plain as day. And it's too bad because the songwriting is mostly excellent.
That’s on the CD right? How about the digital masters (Apple etc)?
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Playing all my favourite albums of DT up until the release. Played I&W and queued Invincible Monster after Pull me Under by mistake. It's quite clear how IM does very little to bring any energy, emotions, creative structure or just interesting melodies to the DT catalogue. Another Day isn't a favourite of mine, even if it has wonderful vocals and great bild up, but damn does it sound exciting after hearing IM ;D
A while back I was listening to some songs from Awake, then I put on a track from DoT and had to turn it off soon after because JLB's vocals are so processed and strained, the production is so brick walled, and the energy is disjointed (I don't feel anything from MM's drumming, JR's contributions have become tiresome). It's a sad state of affairs.
I can agree on JLB’s vocals, but I think that is a result of «masking» the decline in his vocal abilities which has amplified with age (last time I saw DT live JLB’s vocals were not in a great shape to say the least). On DOT being brickwalled, I’ll challenge mildly as I think Noxon conceete evidence that it is not , but I might be wrong. On MM and JR thats a subjective opinion that I don’t necessarily share. Other than that, based on your post, it is clear that DT is not your cup of tea anymore and hasn’t been for a long time. I genuinly wonder why you spend so much energy on something that clearly gives you negative experience…
The original CD is: https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/159329
Note: scores that low in the red are not good (the range is 00 to 14).
I will defend DT's songwriting in the Mangini era, and cries that their arrangements have gotten worse in the last 10 years really do not make a whole lotta sense, but the mix and productions of their albums with Mangini are very iffy. I finally got my kick ass surround sound system recently (after years of talking about it), have been listening to all kinds of different stuff. It has been a good reminder of what albums sound really good and what albums do not. Those 90's DT albums still sounds great. I had to shut Breaking All Illusions from A Dramatic Turn of Events (a song I am a big fan of) off about halfway through because of how bad the sound was on a good system. It is so obvious, which is why I am baffled when some applaud the mix and production of that album. Its flaws in that regard are glaring and plain as day. And it's too bad because the songwriting is mostly excellent.
Respectfully, I think the reason you are baffled is because you are applying an objective perspective to something that is inherently subjective.
I, for one, really enjoy the mix of ADTOE. I have heard and read the criticisms over the years, but I personally feel differently. Of the 4 (soon to be 5) Mangini albums, it's probably the one I enjoy listening to at high volume the most. I also think it's probably the second or third best album in regard to vocals across the board.
I think it's safe to say, we all hear things differently, and when it comes to album-production, while trends exist, at the end of the day, it's all inherently subjective.
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The last several posts have been very interesting. Agree about the loudness wars issue. In general the band has gotten louder/heavier and the production is not helping. One intangible that people often point out is "breathing room". There was so much of it on I&W and parts of Awake. All those parts where its ambient keyboard, bass, infrequent drums and resonating guitar. So cool. Not much of it now, more like a roller coaster at all times. That's not to say I don't LOVE the alien, because I do. It's just different.
One thing I did notice last night during my listen of I&W into Awake is that, we commonly talk about train of thought/8VM as the key turning point for the band, but there's another MAJOR turning point to talk about. And that's JP's guitar work on Awake compared to I&W. His work on I&W is truly unbelievable. It's like he's playing a classical symphony during a heavy metal piece, and it works! Beautifully! His parts, while technically less complex, are musically and compositionally more complex. Anyway, he went from super complex, intricate stuff on Images to a "pure rocker" on Awake. In my estimation it's actually AWAKE, (not ToT), that changed the band's direction towards a more straight forward rocker (power chords, heavy lines vs I&W which were individual notes and large chords). Awake is awesome, as is a lot of material to follow, but I hope you see my point...
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I, for one, really enjoy the mix of ADTOE. I have heard and read the criticisms over the years, but I personally feel differently. Of the 4 (soon to be 5) Mangini albums, it's probably the one I enjoy listening to at high volume the most. I also think it's probably the second or third best album in regard to vocals across the board.
I think it's safe to say, we all hear things differently, and when it comes to album-production, while trends exist, at the end of the day, it's all inherently subjective.
Just curious, are you listening to the CD, the lossless digital version, regular mp3s, or streaming? Are you listening on a high-end sound system, computer speakers, or earbuds?
All of these things make a difference. It's not ALL inherently subjective, but some of it can be relative, depending on circumstances.
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All of these things make a difference. It's not ALL inherently subjective, but some of it can be relative, depending on circumstances.
Correct. An audio file either demonstrates clipping or it doesn't. There are degrees of that, of course (see: loudness wars, per Kev's post above). But it's not subjective. It's demonstrably objective. How it's perceived is subjective, certainly, which is why some people can think the original CD release of Distance Over Time sounds great. Is DOT the worst offender? No, absolutely not. For that, try any recent Baroness release.
As a side note, and not aimed at anyone in particular, still tickles me how we don't seem to understand the difference between production, mixing and mastering. Perfectly possible for an album to have stellar production, for the mix to be fabulous and for the music to sound like shit :biggrin:
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All of these things make a difference. It's not ALL inherently subjective, but some of it can be relative, depending on circumstances.
Correct. An audio file either demonstrates clipping or it doesn't. There are degrees of that, of course (see: loudness wars, per Kev's post above). But it's not subjective. It's demonstrably objective. How it's perceived is subjective, certainly, which is why some people can think the original CD release of Distance Over Time sounds great. Is DOT the worst offender? No, absolutely not. For that, try any recent Baroness release.
As a side note, and not aimed at anyone in particular, still tickles me how we don't seem to understand the difference between production, mixing and mastering. Perfectly possible for an album to have stellar production, for the mix to be fabulous and for the music to sound like shit :biggrin:
Not to flex qualifications, but I assure you that after twenty-five years of making records at varying points of involvement, I am not merely speaking from a lay-person's perspective.
Respectfully, we will just have to agree to disagree here.
Sure, 'clipping' is objective, but I'm simply referring to the interpretation of said clipping, which is subjective. I.e., 'Death Magnetic' clips, I hear it, but I don't care and it doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the record.
I'm not trying to go 'Stadler' on this topic (although, admittedly, I am very much in line with his train of thought on this topic), but I bristle when people say things like 'how do you not hear how 'bad' it sounds,' as if my not sharing the same opinion has something sounds is beyond comprehension.
Alright, enough splitting hairs here, carry on ;D
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There's a vocal line right before the chorus that is definitely reminiscent of Strange Deja Vu.
So, you fell like you've heard it before? Strange.
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All of these things make a difference. It's not ALL inherently subjective, but some of it can be relative, depending on circumstances.
Correct. An audio file either demonstrates clipping or it doesn't. There are degrees of that, of course (see: loudness wars, per Kev's post above). But it's not subjective. It's demonstrably objective. How it's perceived is subjective, certainly, which is why some people can think the original CD release of Distance Over Time sounds great. Is DOT the worst offender? No, absolutely not. For that, try any recent Baroness release.
As a side note, and not aimed at anyone in particular, still tickles me how we don't seem to understand the difference between production, mixing and mastering. Perfectly possible for an album to have stellar production, for the mix to be fabulous and for the music to sound like shit :biggrin:
Sure, 'clipping' is objective, but I'm simply referring to the interpretation of said clipping, which is subjective. I.e., 'Death Magnetic' clips, I hear it, but I don't care and it doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the record.
You're literally agreeing with part of what I wrote but yes, let's agree to disagree :lol
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There's a vocal line right before the chorus that is definitely reminiscent of Strange Deja Vu.
So, you fell like you've heard it before? Strange.
:neverusethis:
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All of these things make a difference. It's not ALL inherently subjective, but some of it can be relative, depending on circumstances.
Correct. An audio file either demonstrates clipping or it doesn't. There are degrees of that, of course (see: loudness wars, per Kev's post above). But it's not subjective. It's demonstrably objective. How it's perceived is subjective, certainly, which is why some people can think the original CD release of Distance Over Time sounds great. Is DOT the worst offender? No, absolutely not. For that, try any recent Baroness release.
As a side note, and not aimed at anyone in particular, still tickles me how we don't seem to understand the difference between production, mixing and mastering. Perfectly possible for an album to have stellar production, for the mix to be fabulous and for the music to sound like shit :biggrin:
Not to flex qualifications, but I assure you that after twenty-five years of making records at varying points of involvement, I am not merely speaking from a lay-person's perspective.
Respectfully, we will just have to agree to disagree here.
Sure, 'clipping' is objective, but I'm simply referring to the interpretation of said clipping, which is subjective. I.e., 'Death Magnetic' clips, I hear it, but I don't care and it doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the record.
I'm not trying to go 'Stadler' on this topic (although, admittedly, I am very much in line with his train of thought on this topic), but I bristle when people say things like 'how do you not hear how 'bad' it sounds,' as if my not sharing the same opinion has something sounds is beyond comprehension.
Alright, enough splitting hairs here, carry on ;D
Everyone should go Stadler once in a while. It's freeing! :) :) :)
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Everyone should go Stadler once in a while.
:heybaby:
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Once you go Stadler, you never go back. I think that's what they say.
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Waldorf gets no love. Just sayin...
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Once you go Stadler, you never go back. I think that's what they say.
That's what she said.
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Once you go Stadler, you never go back. I think that's what they say.
That's what she said.
Pretty sure she didn't :biggrin:
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On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147
And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.
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Once you go Stadler, you never go back. I think that's what they say.
That's what she said.
Pretty sure she didn't :biggrin:
HAHAHAHA
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Once you go Stadler, you never go back. I think that's what they say.
That's what she said.
Pretty sure she didn't :biggrin:
FYI, I was *not* referring to Mrs Stadler #1 :biggrin:
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Everyone should go Stadler once in a while.
:heybaby:
It’s only common sense.
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Everyone should go Stadler once in a while.
:heybaby:
It’s only common sense.
Yet deplorable at the same time.
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I always put on a Waldorf mask when I go Stadler.
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I really like both songs. Some familiar elements, of course, but I hear new things in there as well. Especially like them back to back. Can't wait to hear the whole thing, as it seems there is a bigger picture here. Haha...
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On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147
And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.
This is where people get confused about that site. Those numbers really only refer to the dynamic range of the track in question. You can have a fairly low number and still have a good sounding track.
Also, just because that number is low (in the red), does not necessarily mean the track is "too loud" or clips.
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On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147
And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.
This is where people get confused about that site. Those numbers really only refer to the dynamic range of the track in question. You can have a fairly low number and still have a good sounding track.
Also, just because that number is low (in the red), does not necessarily mean the track is "too loud" or clips.
Exactly. That's why I've questioned the DR discussion for years. Because in discussions basically you have to "low DR = bad sound".
I'll make an analogy: if you measure the temperature of a human being and find a temperature higher than 38°C (or precisely 37.8°C), the person has a fever. Period, no discussion.
We've been using DR as a measure of “music fever” for years, but it's not a good measure. At least not in isolation.
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On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147
And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.
This is where people get confused about that site. Those numbers really only refer to the dynamic range of the track in question. You can have a fairly low number and still have a good sounding track.
Also, just because that number is low (in the red), does not necessarily mean the track is "too loud" or clips.
Exactly. That's why I've questioned the DR discussion for years. Because in discussions basically you have to "low DR = bad sound".
I'll make an analogy: if you measure the temperature of a human being and find a temperature higher than 38°C (or precisely 37.8°C), the person has a fever. Period, no discussion.
We've been using DR as a measure of “music fever” for years, but it's not a good measure. At least not in isolation.
Oh yeah, it's a bad measure since most of the people that refer to that site to show an album is bad just because the DR score is low, do so in ignorance. And most likely don't even have audio equipment capable of playing back the music in a way that it would be discernible.
I saw a person's profile on RYM the other day that said in the "about me" section that any music rated lower than an 8 on DR is objectively bad and they won't listen to it... Too bad for them, they are missing out on a ton of not only good music, but music that sounds good from a production, mixing, and mastering standpoint.
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So far, I sort of like both new songs. I'm certainly getting the new album.
One thing I've found with some new DT songs from the last few records; It feels a bit paint by numbers. Have fairly standard sections, but with some non 4/4 time signatures, or with a bit of noodling.
Put an instrumental. A bit noodly, but nothing too off-putting. Then, basically, have the more accessible part (with a few odd time signatures, but nothing too scary). This part has vocals.
It feels a bit at this point like they're forcing the non-standard time signatures ad such. I'd love for them to just write what felt natural, even if it's all 4/4.
I would love for them to take more chances. After all, every band has a phase where they play it a bit safe. Rush released Hold Your Fire. They recovered.
Basically, I'll likely enjoy the new DT to some extent, but I would love for them to truly write without restriction. Without fan expectation. Though I understand why that's likely impossible.
It isn't even a 'new era' problem, because ADTOE doesn't feel that way.
It's also strange, because the new JP and LTE records were stellar. Maybe they used up a bunch of ideas there? IDK.
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I think writing The Alien primarily in 19/8 as the backbeat and then overlaying 4/4 snare and hihats while the kick plays odd time and then surprisingly going double time in the usually dramatic outro is not standard.
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So far, I sort of like both new songs. I'm certainly getting the new album.
One thing I've found with some new DT songs from the last few records; It feels a bit paint by numbers. Have fairly standard sections, but with some non 4/4 time signatures, or with a bit of noodling.
Put an instrumental. A bit noodly, but nothing too off-putting. Then, basically, have the more accessible part (with a few odd time signatures, but nothing too scary). This part has vocals.
It feels a bit at this point like they're forcing the non-standard time signatures ad such. I'd love for them to just write what felt natural, even if it's all 4/4.
I would love for them to take more chances. After all, every band has a phase where they play it a bit safe. Rush released Hold Your Fire. They recovered.
Basically, I'll likely enjoy the new DT to some extent, but I would love for them to truly write without restriction. Without fan expectation. Though I understand why that's likely impossible.
It isn't even a 'new era' problem, because ADTOE doesn't feel that way.
It's also strange, because the new JP and LTE records were stellar. Maybe they used up a bunch of ideas there? IDK.
The Astonishing was specifically that: uncommon (for DT) arrangements, real orchestra, through-composed, a grand piano in most of the songs, 2 hours length, many technical parts that feel really natural... And it was massacred by people without idea of what they were talking about :huh:
I really don't get the last part, to me, LTE 3 and TV felt completely safe, predictable and boring. I'm not debating their enjoyability, but I don't get how those are not safe, or like new DT releases.
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Personally, I can not reconcile arguments that DT has no new ideas, does not experiment with structure, or that they play it safe with references to The Alien.
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I quite like Invisible Monster, especially the main instrumental theme is totally killer IMO.
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I must say I'm fairly surprised to see such a lukewarm, if not outright negative, reaction to Invisible Monster. To each their own, I guess!
As for myself I'm liking the song quite a lot, the chorus is fairly catchy (not earth shatteringly so, but you can't have it all), while the instrumental section is absolutely top notch, such as that I've often found myself replaying it multiple times before progressing further into the song.
All in all, a good to great song to close album appetiser season in style.
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On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147
And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.
This is where people get confused about that site. Those numbers really only refer to the dynamic range of the track in question. You can have a fairly low number and still have a good sounding track.
Also, just because that number is low (in the red), does not necessarily mean the track is "too loud" or clips.
Exactly. That's why I've questioned the DR discussion for years. Because in discussions basically you have to "low DR = bad sound".
I'll make an analogy: if you measure the temperature of a human being and find a temperature higher than 38°C (or precisely 37.8°C), the person has a fever. Period, no discussion.
We've been using DR as a measure of “music fever” for years, but it's not a good measure. At least not in isolation.
Oh yeah, it's a bad measure since most of the people that refer to that site to show an album is bad just because the DR score is low, do so in ignorance. And most likely don't even have audio equipment capable of playing back the music in a way that it would be discernible.
I saw a person's profile on RYM the other day that said in the "about me" section that any music rated lower than an 8 on DR is objectively bad and they won't listen to it... Too bad for them, they are missing out on a ton of not only good music, but music that sounds good from a production, mixing, and mastering standpoint.
Not sure if that is a thinly veiled shot at those of us who did reference the site ;), but I will clarify to say that while I think the scores we can find there are pretty useful, they are not the end-all be-all. Yes, there are albums with poor dynamic ranges that still manage to sound good. But, to me, it is not even about dynamic range; it is about allowing the music to breathe. If an album sounds worse the louder you turn it up, that is never a good sign.
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FII does sound good overall, but it is on the higher end of acceptable hotness IMO.
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FII does sound good overall, but it is on the higher end of acceptable hotness IMO.
Probably the best review of FII. "Acceptable hotness."
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On DR: look at the result for the FII https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108147
And I always thought (and still think) that this record sounds great.
This is where people get confused about that site. Those numbers really only refer to the dynamic range of the track in question. You can have a fairly low number and still have a good sounding track.
Also, just because that number is low (in the red), does not necessarily mean the track is "too loud" or clips.
Exactly. That's why I've questioned the DR discussion for years. Because in discussions basically you have to "low DR = bad sound".
I'll make an analogy: if you measure the temperature of a human being and find a temperature higher than 38°C (or precisely 37.8°C), the person has a fever. Period, no discussion.
We've been using DR as a measure of “music fever” for years, but it's not a good measure. At least not in isolation.
Oh yeah, it's a bad measure since most of the people that refer to that site to show an album is bad just because the DR score is low, do so in ignorance. And most likely don't even have audio equipment capable of playing back the music in a way that it would be discernible.
I saw a person's profile on RYM the other day that said in the "about me" section that any music rated lower than an 8 on DR is objectively bad and they won't listen to it... Too bad for them, they are missing out on a ton of not only good music, but music that sounds good from a production, mixing, and mastering standpoint.
Not sure if that is a thinly veiled shot at those of us who did reference the site ;), but I will clarify to say that while I think the scores we can find there are pretty useful, they are not the end-all be-all. Yes, there are albums with poor dynamic ranges that still manage to sound good. But, to me, it is not even about dynamic range; it is about allowing the music to breathe. If an album sounds worse the louder you turn it up, that is never a good sign.
Not taking shots at anyone specifically, but I do find that a lot of people use that site to justify calling out albums as sounding bad just because their respective DR scores are somewhat low. Typically the only time an album sounds worse the more you turn it up is when the music is clipping, but that has nothing to do with dynamic range.
A good example is Tool's album Lateralus. That is one of the best sounding albums out there (as are most Tool albums), yet it has songs with DR scores mostly in the 9's and one 8.
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Whats The Story Morning Glory is apparently one of the hottest albums as far as dynamic range - but it still sounds nice compared to an album like Death Magnetic.
An album can be brickwalled but not clip - and not cause ear fatigue.
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So far, I sort of like both new songs. I'm certainly getting the new album.
One thing I've found with some new DT songs from the last few records; It feels a bit paint by numbers. Have fairly standard sections, but with some non 4/4 time signatures, or with a bit of noodling.
Put an instrumental. A bit noodly, but nothing too off-putting. Then, basically, have the more accessible part (with a few odd time signatures, but nothing too scary). This part has vocals.
It feels a bit at this point like they're forcing the non-standard time signatures ad such. I'd love for them to just write what felt natural, even if it's all 4/4.
I would love for them to take more chances. After all, every band has a phase where they play it a bit safe. Rush released Hold Your Fire. They recovered.
Basically, I'll likely enjoy the new DT to some extent, but I would love for them to truly write without restriction. Without fan expectation. Though I understand why that's likely impossible.
It isn't even a 'new era' problem, because ADTOE doesn't feel that way.
It's also strange, because the new JP and LTE records were stellar. Maybe they used up a bunch of ideas there? IDK.
They tried something different, The Astonishing, fans didn’t react too well.
I agree with you about JP’s solo record but thought LTE was pretty underwhelming. If you’re talking safe/paint by numbers, that LTE record was the most “let’s write something that sounds like our other albums” I’ve heard in a while.
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I'm always suspicious of bands that do that
Death Magnetic was hardly on par with Ride The Lightning or Master of Puppets.
The only time I can think that it really worked was when Therapy? tried to write a Troublegum sequel and came up with Cleave. An also fantastic album.
It sounds like the album that perhaps they should have done in 1995.
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I'm always suspicious of bands that do that
Death Magnetic was hardly on par with Ride The Lightning or Master of Puppets.
The only time I can think that it really worked was when Therapy? tried to write a Troublegum sequel and came up with Cleave. An also fantastic album.
It sounds like the album that perhaps they should have done in 1995.
While Death Magnetic has the same structure as Ride, Master and Justice, I always thought the writing on that album was amazing. And not a clone of their earlier style (DM has a happier sound overall).
Very huge agree on the bolded part.
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Wasn't Kaleidoscope (Transatlantic) a very clear attempt at doing something similar to their first two albums? Didn't work too well for them as far as fan reception.
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Typically the only time an album sounds worse the more you turn it up is when the music is clipping, but that has nothing to do with dynamic range.
True but the two are often linked in this specific context.
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It's like Bat out of Hell 2 3 4 5 and Tubular Bells 2 3 4 5 etc etc - It just looks like " hey it sold last time ! "
And yes - if the music is great you should want to turn it up gradually because you're enjoying it.
If you keep wanting to turn the volume down - that's a problem.
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Whats The Story Morning Glory is apparently one of the hottest albums as far as dynamic range - but it still sounds nice compared to an album like Death Magnetic.
An album can be brickwalled but not clip - and not cause ear fatigue.
I just listened to that this weekend (the new deluxe version) and that album actually sounds really good to me. It's also a function of the type of music; there's a warmth to the songs themselves that to me sort of cuts the hotness (if that makes sense: I don't know all the terminology).
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It was probably recorded on tape. Seeing as it was 1995.
Death Magnetic is all digital I'd have thought. I don't know for sure. The drums were done at Sound City and everything else was done at Metallica HQ as far as I know.
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It was probably recorded on tape. Seeing as it was 1995.
Death Magnetic is all digital I'd have thought.
I think most, if not all, major recording studios were all-digital by 1995, if not sooner.
If an album came out once CDs were available, they were either AAD or ADD, but by the mid-late 90s I think just about all CDs were DDD.
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Bosk has heard the full album too? What makes him so special? What, does he run the message board or something? ::)
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Bosk has heard the full album too? What makes him so special? What, does he run the message board or something? ::)
::) Must be nice being on top of the world....How's the view up there ?
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Not that I'm much of a lyrics guy, but these are about as deep as a puddle. If they're referring to the pandemic then I suppose it's pretty straight forward. Other than that, it just seems like another version of Panic Attack or The Enemy Inside. :dunno:
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So I was pretty underwhelmed when this came out, but when I played it now after waking up, IT FINALLY CLICKED. Funny how songs can sneak up on you sometimes.
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Not that I'm much of a lyrics guy, but these are about as deep as a puddle. If they're referring to the pandemic then I suppose it's pretty straight forward. Other than that, it just seems like another version of Panic Attack or The Enemy Inside. :dunno:
Agree. To me the lyrics detract strongly
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Anyone else sometimes get the feeling that one or two differently placed words or snipped words would elevate DT's songs so much? I feel like that is a reoccurring theme on their albums.
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Not that I'm much of a lyrics guy, but these are about as deep as a puddle. If they're referring to the pandemic then I suppose it's pretty straight forward. Other than that, it just seems like another version of Panic Attack or The Enemy Inside. :dunno:
The lyrics work just fine for me. I don't think every song will be a poetic masterpiece, but the lyrics to IM convey the story well, seem pretty well crafted and articulated and there doesn't seem to be anything too cringeworthy in there, so I like them.
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Anyone else sometimes get the feeling that one or two differently placed words or snipped words would elevate DT's songs so much? I feel like that is a reoccurring theme on their albums.
As my high school English teacher used to say, "show, don't tell." unfortunately a lot of dt's recent lyrics are tell tell tell... Hits you over the head with the lack of subtlety
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Anyone else sometimes get the feeling that one or two differently placed words or snipped words would elevate DT's songs so much? I feel like that is a reoccurring theme on their albums.
As my high school English teacher used to say, "show, don't tell." unfortunately a lot of dt's recent lyrics are tell tell tell... Hits you over the head with the lack of subtlety
JP is more straight forward and blunt with his lyrics. The way he shows us is through the use of the music, the music sets the tone rather than the words themselves setting the tone.
Also, he could've just wrote lyrics by starting with a word that was great to sing underneath that melody and it grew from there. Which is what some lyricists do when writing lyrics, as they liked the word and just sang what flowed off the tongue.
This is one reason I do not pay much attention to lyrics or more so the words used in the lyrics. As long as I can either understand the message of the song or if it takes me on a journey with the words I don't mind.
I know some Rap songs that are great poems and can paint pictures with words.
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Not that I'm much of a lyrics guy, but these are about as deep as a puddle. If they're referring to the pandemic then I suppose it's pretty straight forward. Other than that, it just seems like another version of Panic Attack or The Enemy Inside. :dunno:
According to an interview, it's about anxiety
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Not that I'm much of a lyrics guy, but these are about as deep as a puddle. If they're referring to the pandemic then I suppose it's pretty straight forward. Other than that, it just seems like another version of Panic Attack or The Enemy Inside. :dunno:
According to an interview, it's about anxiety
I get the sense that the lyrics are speaking of the "Shadow" as Jung called it... everyone interprets things differently.
The main progression brings Blackwater Park era Opeth to my mind. Without the Ebow of course.
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Not that I'm much of a lyrics guy, but these are about as deep as a puddle. If they're referring to the pandemic then I suppose it's pretty straight forward. Other than that, it just seems like another version of Panic Attack or The Enemy Inside. :dunno:
According to an interview, it's about anxiety
I get the sense that the lyrics are speaking of the "Shadow" as Jung called it... everyone interprets things differently.
The main progression brings Blackwater Park era Opeth to my mind. Without the Ebow of course.
The presence of the serpent is the anxiety. It's akin to the monster under your bed in regards to, you have a feeling it's there.
This presence of the invisible Monster is the effect of anxiety.
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Not that I'm much of a lyrics guy, but these are about as deep as a puddle. If they're referring to the pandemic then I suppose it's pretty straight forward. Other than that, it just seems like another version of Panic Attack or The Enemy Inside. :dunno:
According to an interview, it's about anxiety
I get the sense that the lyrics are speaking of the "Shadow" as Jung called it... everyone interprets things differently.
The main progression brings Blackwater Park era Opeth to my mind. Without the Ebow of course.
The presence of the serpent is the anxiety. It's akin to the monster under your bed in regards to, you have a feeling it's there.
This presence of the invisible Monster is the effect of anxiety.
The first few times I listened, I actually got my interviews mixed up. JP described Sleeping Giant as one's potential to be a wicked person and choosing to use it as a force for good, but I misremembered it as Invisible Monster.
So the whole time I was trying to fit IM's lyrics into that idea and it kind of works but doesn't
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Really cool new GW video with JP discussion the main melody in IM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKixvVgo-bs
Tone is so chocolatey
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Really cool new GW video with JP discussion the main melody in IM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKixvVgo-bs
Tone is so chocolatey
:metal
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Not sure how anyone could listen to the song and think it's about Covid.
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I totally see it as anxiety disorder. My son has it, and it is the most miserable, debilitating POS there is. The song isn't hyperbolic in any way. After years and years of suffering, I know we both would prefer covid. Live or die.
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I totally see it as anxiety disorder. My son has it, and it is the most miserable, debilitating POS there is. The song isn't hyperbolic in any way. After years and years of suffering, I know we both would prefer covid. Live or die.
I have suffered horrifically Since childhood and take this EXTREMELY personal. 2 of my 3 boys inherited this from me and I feel awful and responsible. Unless you suffer or someone close to you does its difficult to understand and the stigma is truly sad and misunderstood. I literally want to cry now.
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I totally see it as anxiety disorder. My son has it, and it is the most miserable, debilitating POS there is. The song isn't hyperbolic in any way. After years and years of suffering, I know we both would prefer covid. Live or die.
I have suffered horrifically Since childhood and take this EXTREMELY personal. 2 of my 3 boys inherited this from me and I feel awful and responsible. Unless you suffer or someone close to you does its difficult to understand and the stigma is truly sad and misunderstood. I literally want to cry now.
I am sorry if I upset you. I am in the middle of this monster right now, and felt the need to speak about how the song hit me. Hugs to you, as good as they can be online. :heart
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I totally see it as anxiety disorder. My son has it, and it is the most miserable, debilitating POS there is. The song isn't hyperbolic in any way. After years and years of suffering, I know we both would prefer covid. Live or die.
I have suffered horrifically Since childhood and take this EXTREMELY personal. 2 of my 3 boys inherited this from me and I feel awful and responsible. Unless you suffer or someone close to you does its difficult to understand and the stigma is truly sad and misunderstood. I literally want to cry now.
It's not your fault. It's not like you had a choice which genes to pass down
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I totally see it as anxiety disorder. My son has it, and it is the most miserable, debilitating POS there is. The song isn't hyperbolic in any way. After years and years of suffering, I know we both would prefer covid. Live or die.
I have suffered horrifically Since childhood and take this EXTREMELY personal. 2 of my 3 boys inherited this from me and I feel awful and responsible. Unless you suffer or someone close to you does its difficult to understand and the stigma is truly sad and misunderstood. I literally want to cry now.
I am sorry if I upset you. I am in the middle of this monster right now, and felt the need to speak about how the song hit me. Hugs to you, as good as they can be online. :heart
No, you didn't upset me at all. Hugs back to you. I use mindful meditation and yoga mudras to ease this. Sadly a psych put me on klonopin 21 years ago and now I am stuck on this. This specific benzo is nearly impossible to come off of safely.
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I totally see it as anxiety disorder. My son has it, and it is the most miserable, debilitating POS there is. The song isn't hyperbolic in any way. After years and years of suffering, I know we both would prefer covid. Live or die.
I have suffered horrifically Since childhood and take this EXTREMELY personal. 2 of my 3 boys inherited this from me and I feel awful and responsible. Unless you suffer or someone close to you does its difficult to understand and the stigma is truly sad and misunderstood. I literally want to cry now.
It's not your fault. It's not like you had a choice which genes to pass down
I know but always feared it would happen and its crippling to see. The only positive is I can help them as far as understanding and that's huge because when I was a kid I was told to suck it up :(
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Sorry to hear about that, Glasser and Geeemo. I cannot imagine how difficult that must be.
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Sorry to hear about that, Glasser and Geeemo. I cannot imagine how difficult that must be.
and you don't want to either, believe me (fellow mental health person here too btw, although not anxiety disorder (anymore, used to though))
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Sorry to hear about that, Glasser and Geeemo. I cannot imagine how difficult that must be.
and you don't want to either, believe me (fellow mental health person here too btw, although not anxiety disorder (anymore, used to though))
My heart and strength are with you. ❤️🩹✊
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Anyone else sometimes get the feeling that one or two differently placed words or snipped words would elevate DT's songs so much? I feel like that is a reoccurring theme on their albums.
As my high school English teacher used to say, "show, don't tell." unfortunately a lot of dt's recent lyrics are tell tell tell... Hits you over the head with the lack of subtlety
I totally agree with this. While many had basically figured it out already, I was disappointed in the Live Scenes commentary when the band came right out and gave specifics about the Scenes storyline. I like when things are sometimes left to the imagination or a bit ambiguous with a bit of mystery.
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I can't believe that nobody's mentioned that the specter in the painting (song video and JP's video explanation of the song structure) looks almost exactly like the face on "In The Heart of the Young's" cover art... cough, TAC, cough.
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As i've said before I find Myungs lyrics really platitudinous and just like quotes from a self help book.
Especially Breaking All Illusions and Fall Into The Light.
It's all " Look into the water - time will reveal . Open your eyes. Search inside. Looking Out. Everything will be Ok. I was Blind But Now I see ". . .
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FITL is Myung? All this time I thought S2N is his only lyrics in D/T. :lol
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FITL is Myung? All this time I thought S2N is his only lyrics in D/T. :lol
They're in the booklet.
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As i've said before I find Myungs lyrics really platitudinous and just like quotes from a self help book.
Especially Breaking All Illusions and Fall Into The Light.
It's all " Look into the water - time will reveal . Open your eyes. Search inside. Looking Out. Everything will be Ok. I was Blind But Now I see ". . .
Yes, those songs aren’t his best work although I’m not sure if they were JP co-writes.
Learning To Live lyrics are amazing imo, absolutely love them. Lifting Shadows Off a Dream and Trial Of Tears are great too.
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As i've said before I find Myungs lyrics really platitudinous and just like quotes from a self help book.
Especially Breaking All Illusions and Fall Into The Light.
It's all " Look into the water - time will reveal . Open your eyes. Search inside. Looking Out. Everything will be Ok. I was Blind But Now I see ". . .
Yes, those songs aren’t his best work although I’m not sure if they were JP co-writes.
Learning To Live lyrics are amazing imo, absolutely love them. Lifting Shadows Off a Dream and Trial Of Tears are great too.
BAI, FITL and S2N were all co-written by JP.
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FITL is Myung? All this time I thought S2N is his only lyrics in D/T. :lol
They're in the booklet.
I only buy digital because I am in the 3rd world. :lol
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America ? :neverusethis:
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The South. ;D
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America ? :neverusethis:
The Philippines. Shipping would be even more expensive than the CD. I do not even have a CD player anymore. :rollin
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LaBrie really have become the favorite lyricist for me. Even stuff like Viper King or Far From Reach has excellent writing to me. I can kind of see his Queen influence in a way. At Wits End ofc is another league but imagine LaBrie writing the epic!
I the end I am happy they have several people writing lyrics so you kind of get a different take. JP is very direct and won't make the top poems of the century, but that's nice imo.
Portnoy had some really great stuff btw. Glass Prison is such a good way of writing lyrics with the use of a metaphor. He still gets the anxiety, message and point through when the ending hits.
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Out Of Reach or Far From Heaven? :)
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Haha damn, meant Out of Reach actually. Far From Heaven however is like a beautiful follow up to one of the best LaBrie songs ever; Disappear. The lyrics perfectly touches on the emotional subjects, something I think LaBrie does so well. Vacant os the same.
I took Out of Reach and Viper King as examples since those are more light hearted subjects that still manages to have great lyrics content imo
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LaBrie really have become the favorite lyricist for me. Even stuff like Viper King or Far From Reach has excellent writing to me. I can kind of see his Queen influence in a way. At Wits End ofc is another league but imagine LaBrie writing the epic!
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's been confirmed that JP wrote the lyrics to the View epic.
It would be nice to see more JLB lyrics on the album though. I think The Alien was written by him, but I wonder if there'll be any more.
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LaBrie really have become the favorite lyricist for me. Even stuff like Viper King or Far From Reach has excellent writing to me. I can kind of see his Queen influence in a way. At Wits End ofc is another league but imagine LaBrie writing the epic!
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's been confirmed that JP wrote the lyrics to the View epic.
It would be nice to see more JLB lyrics on the album though. I think The Alien was written by him, but I wonder if there'll be any more.
I know that A View was written by John (he mentioned it in some recent interview, can't remember which one) and yes, TA is James.
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Yeah expected Petrucci to write lyrics for that. Do we know the full list?
TA: LaBrie
IM: Petrucci
AVTWTwtwwtwtwtW: Petrucci
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I'm pretty sure people found out that Awaken The Master was written by JM, by zooming into specific frames of the deluxe edition trailer. If any others were found this way I didn't see them mentioned, & I sure as hell couldn't make them out by trying myself. :lol
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Yes, Awaken The Master is JM. (which could be found out by freezing some frames). Similarly, Transcending Time is John as well (as IM is), which could be found out like that as well.
So, what is known as of now is:
TA: James
IM: John
TT: John
ATM: JM
AVFTTOTW: John
(I do personally hope Machini wrote some lyrics though, I liked R137 (lyrically speaking), so that would be nice.)
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Interesting! I somehow thought Awaken The Master was Petrucci because it seemed related to ITPOS.
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Honestly one of their most boring songs. Do not like it at all.
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Honestly one of their most boring songs. Do not like it at all.
Awaken the Master or ITPOE?
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Honestly one of their most boring songs. Do not like it at all.
Awaken the Master or ITPOE?
ITPOE is in my top 5. Maybe top 3.
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Honestly one of their most boring songs. Do not like it at all.
Awaken the Master or ITPOE?
ITPOE is in my top 5. Maybe top 3.
Itpoe is a song? The abbreviations are a nightmare. :P
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Honestly one of their most boring songs. Do not like it at all.
Awaken the Master or ITPOE?
ITPOE is in my top 5. Maybe top 3.
Itpoe is a song? The abbreviations are a nightmare. :P
Drink your damn Ovaltine!!!
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Honestly one of their most boring songs. Do not like it at all.
Awaken the Master or ITPOE?
ITPOE is in my top 5. Maybe top 3.
Itpoe is a song? The abbreviations are a nightmare. :P
Drink your damn Ovaltine!!!
In the Presence of Enemies takes way to long to write. Especially on my phone, when my thumbs mistype so much!
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Honestly one of their most boring songs. Do not like it at all.
Awaken the Master or ITPOE?
ITPOE is in my top 5. Maybe top 3.
Itpoe is a song? The abbreviations are a nightmare. :P
Drink your damn Ovaltine!!!
In the Presence of Enemies takes way to long to write. Especially on my phone, when my thumbs mistype so much!
Just bustin chops, itpoe should be the name anyway. :biggrin:
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Honestly one of their most boring songs. Do not like it at all.
Awaken the Master or ITPOE?
ITPOE is in my top 5. Maybe top 3.
Itpoe is a song? The abbreviations are a nightmare. :P
Drink your damn Ovaltine!!!
You mean DYDO.
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:tup
:lol
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Honestly one of their most boring songs. Do not like it at all.
Awaken the Master or ITPOE?
I think he meant Invisible Monster because it's the Invisible Monster thread. :lol
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Honestly one of their most boring songs. Do not like it at all.
Awaken the Master or ITPOE?
I think he meant Invisible Monster because it's the Invisible Monster thread. :lol
I hope so. We only have a handful of songs left, so I don't want to think one of them might disappoint :lol
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I listened to Dream Theater for almost 7 hours yesterday while at work and at no point did either of the new songs cross my mind :(
I want to like them.
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I listened to Dream Theater for almost 7 hours yesterday while at work and at no point did either of the new songs cross my mind :(
I want to like them.
I only got a couple of hours in..I am choosing not to listen to these two anymore as the concert is a long way off...I went to my favorite for a mountain bike trek. Live in London - Scenes from a Memory. Dang, it is so good!! Then, got about half way through The Astonishing (TA ;D) before I had to stop. I will say, the 2 new songs will not be in my top 10 for sure.
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I think after letting it sit some IM is a perfectly fine song. Some parts are pretty catchy. Overall solid. I'd bet that if I heard this on the album it would be just fine.
I think what's a bummer is that, given that the rest of the songs are supposed to be at least somewhat insane, releasing the mid-tempo song as a single is disappointing.
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I think after letting it sit some IM is a perfectly fine song. Some parts are pretty catchy. Overall solid. I'd bet that if I heard this on the album it would be just fine.
I think what's a bummer is that, given that the rest of the songs are supposed to be at least somewhat insane, releasing the mid-tempo song as a single is disappointing.
From the early reviews and thinking about D/T it actually seems like they keep the good stuff for the final release 😁 I think TA is cool and IM a simple but good song. However I am happy there will be awesome stuff left when the album finally hits. D/T did release Fall Into The Light as the last single and that one is damn good in my book. Paralyzed and UA was solid but just that.
Then when the album was released and I got Barstool Warrior, At Wits End and Pale Blue Dot and the rest in context it all made sense ;D
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Yeah I agree. IM has settled a lot more for me, and I can see it sitting well in the context of the album. I find myself comparing it to UA, just in terms of the type of song it is, and probably I like IM more than UA.
I'm very hopeful that the best stuff is still to come.
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I think after letting it sit some IM is a perfectly fine song. Some parts are pretty catchy. Overall solid. I'd bet that if I heard this on the album it would be just fine.
I think what's a bummer is that, given that the rest of the songs are supposed to be at least somewhat insane, releasing the mid-tempo song as a single is disappointing.
From the early reviews and thinking about D/T it actually seems like they keep the good stuff for the final release 😁 I think TA is cool and IM a simple but good song. However I am happy there will be awesome stuff left when the album finally hits. D/T did release Fall Into The Light as the last single and that one is damn good in my book. Paralyzed and UA was solid but just that.
Then when the album was released and I got Barstool Warrior, At Wits End and Pale Blue Dot and the rest in context it all made sense ;D
Fall Into The Light was the second single not the last
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I though Paralyzed was the second single..
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I think after letting it sit some IM is a perfectly fine song. Some parts are pretty catchy. Overall solid. I'd bet that if I heard this on the album it would be just fine.
I think what's a bummer is that, given that the rest of the songs are supposed to be at least somewhat insane, releasing the mid-tempo song as a single is disappointing.
From the early reviews and thinking about D/T it actually seems like they keep the good stuff for the final release 😁
Agreed. I think part of what skewed things for this album though was that TA came out as the first single. Whatever you think of the song, it's pedal to the metal for nine minutes straight. For the second single to be lower energy is weird. With respect with Untethered Angel, it's a bit of a safe song to start out with.
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I though Paralyzed was the second single..
Nope, paralyzed came 3rd, 2 weeks before the release date
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I though Paralyzed was the second single..
Nope, paralyzed came 3rd, 2 weeks before the release date
Meaning we will get a single this Friday? :biggrin:
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I though Paralyzed was the second single..
Nope, paralyzed came 3rd, 2 weeks before the release date
Meaning we will get a single this Friday? :biggrin:
pls
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I'm surprised you guys want a 3rd single. That would be 3 out of 7 songs heard before the release. Only 4 new songs. Are peoole worn out on the first 2 songs already?!
I get them releasing something anyway and people listening because they can't wait (been there before ha, not this time though) but actually asking for more songs at this point to be revealed, I don't get.
If I had no self control, I would be praying that they didn't reveal any more songs before the full release :lol
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I though Paralyzed was the second single..
Nope, paralyzed came 3rd, 2 weeks before the release date
Meaning we will get a single this Friday? :biggrin:
NO
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No need for another single and it would be way too close to the release date
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There was an interesting comment from Glasser a few pages back in one of the many threads, saying "I have confirmation there will not be a 3rd single"
Which if true, great! I also agree there should not be a3rd single even if that's Inside Out's way of doing things
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Why would anyone be opposed to a 3rd single? You always have the option NOT to listen to it... ???
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I'd be up for 7 singles, honestly.
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I'd be up for 7 singles, honestly.
the wait is killing me lol. I cant say I was very satisfied by the singles, but I am thinking the rest of the album will blow them away.
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I'd be up for 7 singles, honestly.
the wait is killing me lol. I cant say I was very satisfied by the singles, but I am thinking the rest of the album will blow them away.
Here’s a silver lining for you. When the album comes out it will be completely brand new to you. To those who have heard it and digested the music already have nothing to look forward to. Does that help at all? I wish I can unhear it now until the 22nd.
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I'd be up for 7 singles, honestly.
the wait is killing me lol. I cant say I was very satisfied by the singles, but I am thinking the rest of the album will blow them away.
Here’s a silver lining for you. When the album comes out it will be completely brand new to you. To those who have heard it and digested the music already have nothing to look forward to. Does that help at all? I wish I can unhear it now until the 22nd.
That does help lol.
Also, I remember when DoT came out. I played the shit out of that album for months and months going to work, at the gym, walking down the street etc. I am hoping to have a similar experience starting in 2 weeks.
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Why would anyone be opposed to a 3rd single? You always have the option NOT to listen to it... ???
Just give me the whole album, no more singles :lol
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3 singles would be HALF the album.
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I remember the band Mindflow released an entire album by releasing 1 song a month for a year. The album was called “365”.
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I wish Metallica would release 1 song a month then put out the album in December 2022.
Of course - sooner than that would be great but I'm not expecting it.
Hardwired 2 Self Destruct. ;D
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I wish Metallica would release 1 song a month then put out the album in December 2022.
Of course - sooner than that would be great but I'm not expecting it.
Hardwired 2 Self Destruct. ;D
I love all things Metallica! Been a fanboy since Kill ‘em All!
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3 singles would be HALF the album.
If they released Transcending Time, they will have released only ~31% of the album runtime ;D
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This song is getting better and better. I really dig the music video. It represents the song well and I enjoy seeing the band performing like this. It's better than the UA video where they are just in the studio.
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I love all things Metallica! Been a fanboy since Kill ‘em All!
:metal
I really dig the music video.
It's an excellent video.
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For what it’s worth, my four year-old son loves Invisible Monster. He requests to hear it and sings along to the chorus. So, that’s cool.
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I wish Metallica would release 1 song a month then put out the album in December 2022.
Of course - sooner than that would be great but I'm not expecting it.
Hardwired 2 Self Destruct. ;D
I love all things Metallica! Been a fanboy since Kill ‘em All!
Love Metallica but haven't listened to anything since St. Anger. Checked out the Through the Never concert video just the other day. I know that's 8 years old now, but man they brought the energy! James is a monster.
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I wish Metallica would release 1 song a month then put out the album in December 2022.
Of course - sooner than that would be great but I'm not expecting it.
Hardwired 2 Self Destruct. ;D
I love all things Metallica! Been a fanboy since Kill ‘em All!
Love Metallica but haven't listened to anything since St. Anger. Checked out the Through the Never concert video just the other day. I know that's 8 years old now, but man they brought the energy! James is a monster.
But not an invisible one, amirite? ;)
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I wish Metallica would release 1 song a month then put out the album in December 2022.
Of course - sooner than that would be great but I'm not expecting it.
Hardwired 2 Self Destruct. ;D
I love all things Metallica! Been a fanboy since Kill ‘em All!
Love Metallica but haven't listened to anything since St. Anger. Checked out the Through the Never concert video just the other day. I know that's 8 years old now, but man they brought the energy! James is a monster.
But not an invisible one, amirite? ;)
BREAKING NEWS: With Dream Theater's tour suspended, James Hetfield and James Labrie have formed a thrash prog duo and will be performing "Some Kind of Invisible Monster" at a coffee shop near you.
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I wish Metallica would release 1 song a month then put out the album in December 2022.
Of course - sooner than that would be great but I'm not expecting it.
Hardwired 2 Self Destruct. ;D
I love all things Metallica! Been a fanboy since Kill ‘em All!
Love Metallica but haven't listened to anything since St. Anger. Checked out the Through the Never concert video just the other day. I know that's 8 years old now, but man they brought the energy! James is a monster.
But not an invisible one, amirite? ;)
BREAKING NEWS: With Dream Theater's tour suspended, James Hetfield and James Labrie have formed a thrash prog duo and will be performing "Some Kind of Invisible Monster" at a coffee shop near you.
I heard the single, it’s a mix of Goatwhore and Cinderella in style. Fucking kicks ass! Shits on new DT.
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The very strange thing about Invisible Monster for me, is that analytically it is like OTBOA, The Enemy Inside and Untethered Angel all put in a blender.
Yet listening to the song itself I don't really get that impression, even though if I compared the instrumental parts between those songs and Invisible Monster I'd see it quite obvious, including in arrangements, rhythms and progressions and even themes (The Enemy Inside).
The atmosphere and aesthetic impressions it gives is completely different.
Aside from that I've seen the finale section of "One Last Time" pop up (or echo) both in this song and one of the songs off Distance Over Time (I'll have to look it up I can't remember off the top of my head).