Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo

[Stadler]

What this reminds me of?

The Beatles (the GOOD GUYS, in white hats) and the Stones (the BAD GUYS, in black hats) that would argue in the press, snipe at each other, then go visit each other in the studio, swap songs, sing backgrounds...   

I have almost zero doubt at this point that there isn't SOME communication between the two camps about this, even if it is just the SoA "people" and the DT "people". 

I have no proof of this, no information, nothing but speculation, but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here. 

[Mladen]

Derek is just being silly and sarcastic, don't take it too seriously. 

[ariich]

Personally, I'm finding Derek's twitter banter highly entertaining.

[bosk1]

...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here. 

Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned."  Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism."  That doesn't apply here.  But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire.  Knock off the insults.

[Kwyjibo]

I don't take it seriously but I'm still not convinced that it is a good idea, and I'm not convinced that any press = good press.

[bosk1]

...and I'm not convinced that any press = good press.

Oh, I'm not either.  Personally, I think it's a pretty dumb philosophy.  But I get why others might think differently.

[The Walrus]

...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here. 

Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned."  Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism."  That doesn't apply here.  But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire.  Knock off the insults.

Amen. Thin-skinned... some of us just find it unnecessary. I'm simply annoyed that he feels the need to do this in order to promote his new album. If it keeps up I'm not even going to buy the damn thing because it's silly and annoying and I quite like what DT is doing and what Jordan does with his gear. You don't see Jordan taking jabs at Derek. If that's how Derek gets his laughs, he sounds immature.

[mikeyd23]

...and I'm not convinced that any press = good press.

Oh, I'm not either.  Personally, I think it's a pretty dumb philosophy.  But I get why others might think differently.

I think's kinda dumb as well, I'm definitely not "thin-skinned" about it, Derek can say whatever he wants, doesn't bother me...I'm just trying to figure out why he (they) think it's a good idea to take jabs at the band whose fan base will probably make up 95% of SoA fan base. There's the potential to alienate your already assembled target market. Not sure why they would do that.

[gzarruk]

...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here. 

Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned."  Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism."  That doesn't apply here.  But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire.  Knock off the insults.

Amen. Thin-skinned... some of us just find it unnecessary. I'm simply annoyed that he feels the need to do this in order to promote his new album. If it keeps up I'm not even going to buy the damn thing because it's silly and annoying and I quite like what DT is doing and what Jordan does with his gear. You don't see Jordan taking jabs at Derek. If that's how Derek gets his laughs, he sounds immature.

...and I'm not convinced that any press = good press.

Oh, I'm not either.  Personally, I think it's a pretty dumb philosophy.  But I get why others might think differently.

I think's kinda dumb as well, I'm definitely not "thin-skinned" about it, Derek can say whatever he wants, doesn't bother me...I'm just trying to figure out why he (they) think it's a good idea to take jabs at the band whose fan base will probably make up 95% of SoA fan base. There's the potential to alienate your already assembled target market. Not sure why they would do that.

I agree with both posts, it's annoying and completely unnecesary.

[kaos2900]

...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here. 

Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned."  Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism."  That doesn't apply here.  But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire.  Knock off the insults.

Amen. Thin-skinned... some of us just find it unnecessary. I'm simply annoyed that he feels the need to do this in order to promote his new album. If it keeps up I'm not even going to buy the damn thing because it's silly and annoying and I quite like what DT is doing and what Jordan does with his gear. You don't see Jordan taking jabs at Derek. If that's how Derek gets his laughs, he sounds immature.

You know, I'm about to that point as well.

[Zook]

It appears he's trying to lure in DT detractors by basically insulting the band.

[mikeyd23]

It appears he's trying to lure in DT detractors by basically insulting the band.

It does appear that way, and again, I stress, if that's what they want to do, more power to them. Doesn't really bother me, but I still don't get it.

Wouldn't the DT detractors who still like prog metal check this band out without the insults? And DT fans wouldn't have such a bad taste in their mouths? I dunno, just seems weird to me. Still not seeing the net gain by doing this rather than not doing this.

[The Walrus]

If Mr. Nicky Lemons would like to promote his album, why not share a clip of one of his solos from the record? Or present a video of him jamming? Or talking with another band member about the album? Promotion via trying to bring down someone or something else is a sign that maybe your material isn't as strong as you say it is. The more he hypes it the less I believe it's as awe-inspiring as he makes it out to be.

[Stadler]

...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here. 

Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned."  Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism."  That doesn't apply here.  But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire.  Knock off the insults.

It wasn't meant as an insult, but duly noted.   I'm not at all looking to stoke fires.   It was meant in part how you defined it:  "that might be seen as criticism".   There was no direct reference, at all, to DT in Derek's comment.  It was a point that could equally be taken about defining SoA as a new version of prog metal.   There's a general criticism about prog as being "fantasy-based" and "cheesy" (there's a great article at Cracked.com that masterfully parodies the prog genre, and fits nicely with this).  You've got two prog metal giants, but the other three have little if any "prog metal" bona fides.   

[ariich]

I honestly think Derek's just having a bit of silly fun, rather than meaning anything hostile by it. Bit of a shame people aren't taking it that way.

[King Postwhore]

I'm glad I've been oblivious to all of this.  I'll just wait for the album to drop thank you very much.

[Dave_Manchester]

I have almost zero doubt at this point that there isn't SOME communication between the two camps about this, even if it is just the SoA "people" and the DT "people". 

Anything's possible, but I very strongly doubt this. Nothing I've ever seen, read or heard from the DT camp convinces me that they care about this kind of thing that DS is doing. It's not their style. I imagine that if any of the DT guys have any 'connection' to Sons of Apollo it'll be to just check out the album when it's released, think to themselves "Yeah, that sounds a bit like us. It's cool" and then quietly go about their lives and careers. None of them seem to have much interest in internet games, which is one of the innumerable reasons I love them.

[MirrorMask]

I have almost zero doubt at this point that there isn't SOME communication between the two camps about this, even if it is just the SoA "people" and the DT "people". 

Anything's possible, but I very strongly doubt this. Nothing I've ever seen, read or heard from the DT camp convinces me that they care about this kind of thing that DS is doing. It's not their style. I imagine that if any of the DT guys have any 'connection' to Sons of Apollo it'll be to just check out the album when it's released, think to themselves "Yeah, that sounds a bit like us. It's cool" and then quietly go about their lives and careers. None of them seem to have much interest in internet games, which is one of the innumerable reasons I love them.

I agree. I just can't imagine the guys themselves or their PR people discussing this, also because DT won't be back with an album for at the very least 12-13 months, so the Sons of Apollo album will have already been released and toured for (and forgotten by those who won't like it) by the time DT will start doing press for their next album.

[bill1971]

I'm glad I've been oblivious to all of this.  I'll just wait for the album to drop thank you very much.

That and the tour is where the fun will really begin. Sadly though in three years when this band is gone and DT will be touring with DT35 you know who will get the last laugh.

[bill1971]

I have almost zero doubt at this point that there isn't SOME communication between the two camps about this, even if it is just the SoA "people" and the DT "people". 

Anything's possible, but I very strongly doubt this. Nothing I've ever seen, read or heard from the DT camp convinces me that they care about this kind of thing that DS is doing. It's not their style. I imagine that if any of the DT guys have any 'connection' to Sons of Apollo it'll be to just check out the album when it's released, think to themselves "Yeah, that sounds a bit like us. It's cool" and then quietly go about their lives and careers. None of them seem to have much interest in internet games, which is one of the innumerable reasons I love them.

I agree. They have been 100% classy in all that they do and conduct themselves. Much like Rush.

[Zook]

I honestly think Derek's just having a bit of silly fun, rather than meaning anything hostile by it. Bit of a shame people aren't taking it that way.

Either that or he graduated from Portnoy's School of Passive Aggressive Social Media Posts.

[Architeuthis]

Agreed. Rush and DT are both class acts. 😎

[Herrick]

Honest question, does FM radio matter at all for bands anymore?

I wonder about this too. No one in my house listens to the radio but they all listen to music. I'm not familiar with the stuff my kids listen to but it all sounds very modern aside from a random old popular rock song. They don't subscribe to any streaming stuff because they have no money. I know some people at work use Spotify. Every new or old new band I find out about is through forums & YouTube.

Anyway, I think bosk1 & cramx3 summed up the chances of Sons of Apollo being a long time thing. I thought The Winery Dogs was going to be a set gig for Portnoy. I assumed if any kind of rock music could be successful it would be the kind of stuff The Winery Dogs were playing. But then again I don't know what kind of modern rock appeals to the masses or even a decently sizable audience.

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.

[bill1971]

Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.

Yes, but not let's not forget the popular sour grapes argument going around these days, "who cares about skill or playing really well, it's all about feel"

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.

Yes, but not let's not forget the popular sour grapes argument going around these days, "who cares about skill or playing really well, it's all about feel"

And I'd be the first to tell you that there is validity to that argument (videos of 13 year olds shredding a million notes a second, but then can't hold a proper vibrato or being able to write anything being the perfect example)... but for someone to say that Jordan Rudess (or anyone in DT for that matter) doesn't have feel is just.... incorrect.

[The Walrus]

I find much of Derek's music to have too much shred as is so I'm not sure he's one to talk about feel

[bill1971]

Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.

Yes, but not let's not forget the popular sour grapes argument going around these days, "who cares about skill or playing really well, it's all about feel"

And I'd be the first to tell you that there is validity to that argument (videos of 13 year olds shredding a million notes a second, but then can't hold a proper vibrato or being able to write anything being the perfect example)... but for someone to say that Jordan Rudess (or anyone in DT for that matter) doesn't have feel is just.... incorrect.

I agree, fast does not equal good. Also agree, I think all the guys in DT have tremendous feel,

[King Postwhore]

I'm glad I've been oblivious to all of this.  I'll just wait for the album to drop thank you very much.

That and the tour is where the fun will really begin. Sadly though in three years when this band is gone and DT will be touring with DT35 you know who will get the last laugh.

If it does, it does.  I'm not thinking that far.  Im just trying to get in the bands pants right now.  One step at a time.

[Madman Shepherd]

...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here. 

Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned."  Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism."  That doesn't apply here.  But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire.  Knock off the insults.

Amen. Thin-skinned... some of us just find it unnecessary. I'm simply annoyed that he feels the need to do this in order to promote his new album. If it keeps up I'm not even going to buy the damn thing because it's silly and annoying and I quite like what DT is doing and what Jordan does with his gear. You don't see Jordan taking jabs at Derek. If that's how Derek gets his laughs, he sounds immature.

You know, I'm about to that point as well.

Same here. 

Ya know what the funny thing is though?  I actually kind of agree with Derek about Rudess.  I still think his comments are shitty but I always thought Jordan had a penchant for new shiny things and threw them into the music whether they fit or not. 

I remember when he introduced the continuum and then used it religiously.  I thought, you spent 98% of your life without that thing, and now you can't live without it. 

Then iphones came out and it was kind of a gimmick that you could use apps for music and not just for texting and phonecalls.  So Jordan put an iphone solo into Rites of Passage. 

Also, he sometimes noodles so damn much I find it annoying.  I remember hearing a bootleg of him playing Space Dye Vest with James at a one off New York show (just the two of them).  He added all these fiddley things to the main melody which kind of ruined it. 


BUT.........

When they played Space Dye Vest on the DT12 tour, Jordan played it totally respectfully and did an outstanding job.  He still comes up with amazing solos that don't rely on gimmicks and sometimes new sounds he discovers or invents are freaking badass. 

Long story short, even though I have some complaints about Jordan and he is probably my least favorite member of DT, he didn't deserve the garbage spewed by Derek (who I was quite a big fan of until recently).  Despite some *opinions* I or other people may have about Jordan, you can't deny that he plays with feel all the time.  He puts a lot of thought into his parts and he is a damn important member of Dream Theater.

I also think his solos in Beneath the Surface and Along for the Ride are two of the most beautiful keyboard related things I've ever heard. 

[bill1971]

I'm glad I've been oblivious to all of this.  I'll just wait for the album to drop thank you very much.

That and the tour is where the fun will really begin. Sadly though in three years when this band is gone and DT will be touring with DT35 you know who will get the last laugh.

If it does, it does.  I'm not thinking that far.  Im just trying to get in the bands pants right now.  One step at a time.

I shouldn't have said that. I hope they tour well into their 60's with this band and have a lot of success.

[PetFish]

The Beatles (the GOOD GUYS, in white hats) and the Stones (the BAD GUYS, in black hats) that would argue in the press, snipe at each other, then go visit each other in the studio, swap songs, sing backgrounds...   

Except that nobody in DT has said anything.  Right now it's just one side acting like children.

[rumborak]

I have to be honest, with all this forced hooplah, I can't help but expect a decisive ... "meh" from the album. I don't know, it's like with big dogs who don't need to bark because they know they're top. The more bark, the less I expect.

[Ben_Jamin]

I honestly think Derek's just having a bit of silly fun, rather than meaning anything hostile by it. Bit of a shame people aren't taking it that way.

Its funny actually. He knows how people are on Twitter, he knows how people react to MPs tweets, so he decides to have fun and be vauge with his supposed jabs.

For me, I see it aa him describing the kind of prog theyre doing. Not the kind with a narrative concept, or modern widdly didly keyboard sounds (Many bands use these sounds not just JR, Haken). Derek is an 80's Heavy Metal guy and likes to rock, so he uses Keyboard sounds that rock.

Anyways, ita great hes having fun with twitter. People can take it however as they usually do anyways when someone posts something even a simple...(hi.) Tweet.

[Dave_Manchester]

I have to be honest, with all this forced hooplah, I can't help but expect a decisive ... "meh" from the album. I don't know, it's like with big dogs who don't need to bark because they know they're top. The more bark, the less I expect.

I'm leaning the same way. It's like 2 weeks ago when Conor McGregor was trying to sell his fight by saying he was going to knock out Floyd in 3 rounds, and boxing would have a new king. Everyone just kind of nodded along and said "Yeah, that's not gonna happen, but whatever".

I get why Derek is proclaiming SOA will "generate 10 times the heat" of any other band they're in, but it won't. There's a tiny market for this kind of thing, and it's largely already been cornered by Dream Theater, and to a lesser extent, the younger groups like Threshold and Haken. MP sold Similitude Of A Dream as being on a par with the greatest rock albums ever made (and it wasn't far off in my opinion, I love the album), but it still landed at number 178 on the French chart, according to its Wiki page, and they apparently just played it to 450 people at their last show. The market isn't what Derek seems to think it is.   

That said, I do like the track they released and I'll buy the album. Derek is just playing around with his tweets. It's witless and dumb to me, but some will like it (and those that don't will be told to research his sense of humour, because apparently it's necessary now to know someone's sense of humour before deciding something is infantile). I understand why he's doing this, because if he didn't the album would sink without trace rather than floating for a week or two.