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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Metro on March 11, 2017, 01:22:34 PM
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I felt like this deserved its own thread since it really doesn't have much to do with his Shattered Fortress band.
This is what we know so far:
Mike Portnoy confirms a Progressive Metal Supergroup is in the works
https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/posts/1598772116807091
Former DT keyboardist Derek Sherinian posts a picture of his keyboard rig in a studio very similar to the one in Mike's pic
This tweet was quickly taken down but luckily someone got a screenshot of it.
(https://i.imgur.com/Te5GfwZ.jpg)
Derek's keyboard tech posted a video on Instagram showing his rig while Derek practices a unison with a guitarist offscreen. This video has also been taken down but I managed to get a screenshot of the last second of the video which shows the guitarist: Bumblefoot
(https://i.imgur.com/sHuWcYy.png)
Today Miked and Derek tweeted this pic, pretty much confirming Derek's involvement, which we already knew :P
https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/840655819557367808
https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/840657353225601024
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I reposted the info with the picture of Bumblefoot at the MP forum and also at the MP forum in Facebook and he removed all of that.
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I reposted the info with the picture of Bumblefoot at the MP forum and also at the MP forum in Facebook and he removed all of that.
:')
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Bumblefoot?
Well, it could be really good if he adds in a unique influence, or he could adapt to them and make it standard stuff.
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I just hope he doesn't sing. I don't find his playing to be anything special but it's okay but his vocals I actively dislike.
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MP also said on his website that he will have the same level of control he had in DT. A first for him since he left DT
For the 1st time since 2010, YES!!
It was made very clear and understood before we even started...
With TWD, FC, NMB, TA, MA all being more of a "democracy", the ONLY way i could take on another band (without going insane!) is if I was to have the same level of overall creative control I had in DT
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2987222-p3.aspx (https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2987222-p3.aspx)
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It'll either stop being a supergroup and be his new home OR it'll last one album before he moves onto something else.
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I'm blanking, which band is MA?
I say one album :lol
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I'm blanking, which band is MA?
I say one album :lol
Madrenaline Aob !! :neverusethis:
I'm guessing it was a typo.
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I'm blanking, which band is MA?
I say one album :lol
Metal Allegiance - one of his projects that I just cannot get into as that sort of metal just isn't my thing, and the fact that it's more like one of those Magna Carta record cover-albums (where the line-up is different in every song), I just don't see myself caring about it since it's not a single line-up on every piece, just a collection of different band's performances.
-Marc.
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I'm hoping this will be a "no holds barred" kind of thing, a la Planet X.
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This sounds like Planet X with Mike Portnoy on drums.
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I'm hoping this will be a "no holds barred" kind of thing, a la Planet X.
Agreed from the standpoint that they won't put limits on the style or sound (except maybe cookie monster vocals, which I fear will be evident). But unlike PX, which struck me as mostly instrumental flexing of their chops, I hope this new band follows the basic idea of having the heavy, the pop and the epic sides as DT does. Exactly how they go about doing it is up to them, and I welcome influences/directions that go outside of what DT has done.
My biggest question is who are the bassist and vocalist (assuming they are part of this group)? Who are LA based musicians that are musos but don't have a full-time gig that would take up a lot of their time? I couldn't help but think of Jason Newsted, but I haven't a clue as to where he lives or if he's even doing much with music these days. Perhaps looking at the guys MP's played with in different bands/projects could be a hint since he's played with the two we know of - more likely from one-off things like PSMS, Hail and Metal Allegiance, rather than TA, FC or TWD.
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Sheehan? Ellefson?
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My biggest question is who are the bassist and vocalist (assuming they are part of this group)? Who are LA based musicians that are musos but don't have a full-time gig that would take up a lot of their time? I couldn't help but think of Jason Newsted, but I haven't a clue as to where he lives or if he's even doing much with music these days. Perhaps looking at the guys MP's played with in different bands/projects could be a hint since he's played with the two we know of - more likely from one-off things like PSMS, Hail and Metal Allegiance, rather than TA, FC or TWD.
*Fingers crossed for no Billy Sheehan*
Seeing how badly they've kept this project a secret, we'll probably figure out who else is involved soon :P
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Mike Lepond!
He and MP seem to be competing for the most side projects. Seems fitting they'd do one together!
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Seeing how badly they've kept this project a secret, we'll probably figure out who else is involved soon :P
I really think that all these leaks are done on purpose by the band. Derek made a photo with MP feet saying "making history... And you?" and the other has a image of Bumblefoot at the last frame of a video from the studio? Of course, they are unofficially releasing information.
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The real question here is: will they play the full version of Apocalypse 1470 B. C. live this time?
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No, the real question is who the hell is Bumblefoot?
TAC, have you heard of this guy?
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No, the real question is who the hell is Bumblefoot?
TAC, have you heard of this guy?
Former guitarist for GnR. Think he was there for a while too.
Seems like a really talented guitarist, but I've never heard him write anything interesting riff or song wise.
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Bumblefoot is currently in a band called Art of Anarchy, which was originally fronted by Scott Weiland before he passed away. Their current front man is former Creed vocalist Scott Stapp. From what I heard from them, they are pretty meh.
The Madness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNy_g6cMlIE
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So glad they got Bumblefoot and not another JP clone for the band. Also, he's very capable as a guitarist and his influence should (hopefully) be really useful to create something new. Just hope he isn't the main vocalist of the band... and MP either :facepalm:
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Former guitarist for GnR. Think he was there for a while too.
Eight years, one album. :lol
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Former guitarist for GnR. Think he was there for a while too.
Eight years, one album. :lol
:lol To be fair, the guy has put out a LOT of solo albums, and some of them are really good!
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Former guitarist for GnR. Think he was there for a while too.
Eight years, one album. :lol
Well yea, but they were a live band for the most part at that point. He wasn't really there to write as much as perform.
That's one of the things I'm worried about. Dude seems way more of a performer (or even instructor) than writer.
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Mike wrote this on his message board:
"There's a reason I post WHAT I post WHEN I post it...
Don't you think if I wanted the guitar player announced, I would've done it???
I appreciate your enthusiasm here, but please respect my wishes to only disclose certain things when *I* want that info disclosed and announced
How on Earth can that be misunderstood or misinterpreted in any way...it would seem pretty obvious to me "
So, doesn't look like the leaks are intentional. Not the best way to handle that sort of thing. Then again, if you're gonna hype this thing, why not just tell us who is in the band? Or just keep it secret you're even working on something.
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But...a member of the band posted something. How is that our fault?
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But...a member of the band posted something. How is that our fault?
Totally. There's not a ton of people in the studio, just tell them to stop filming/posting things. Easier than telling thousands of people to stop talking about it.
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So Mike's fans arent't allowed to speculate based on the things we see? Because he 'doesn't want it'? Come on man, this sort of thing is inevitable in the internet age.
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But...a member of the band posted something. How is that our fault?
Totally. There's not a ton of people in the studio, just tell them to stop filming/posting things. Easier than telling thousands of people to stop talking about it.
For a group you supposedly have total creative control over, it should be pretty easy to tell them to stop, right?
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He can delete posts from his own board but he can't fromothetfrom other places, like this, so I don't see why he bothers. Stop the leaks if you want to stop the talk.
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Wow, drama this early. :corn
I like Bumblefoot when he was still using his name Ron Thal. He sounded like Mike Keneally then. Maybe he could bring that Zappa vibe to this group.
I also like how the thread title iS Mike Portnoy PMS. Suits the drama well. :lol
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You could be satisfied that your teasers spark interest in your future group/project and that people naturally speculate about the participants but you don't have to, although for me the latter doesn't really make sense.
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Sorry Mike, I love you, but.. stop whining like a little child.
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No, the real question is who the hell is Bumblefoot?
TAC, have you heard of this guy?
Hah, I have. He was in GnR, right. Haven't heard a single note the guy has played though.
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Mike wrote this on his message board:
"There's a reason I post WHAT I post WHEN I post it...
Don't you think if I wanted the guitar player announced, I would've done it???
I appreciate your enthusiasm here, but please respect my wishes to only disclose certain things when *I* want that info disclosed and announced
How on Earth can that be misunderstood or misinterpreted in any way...it would seem pretty obvious to me "
Wow. Just Wow.
I also like how the thread title iS Mike Portnoy PMS. Suits the drama well. :lol
:rollin
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There we go again. :rollin
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This is my favorite Ron Thal (Bumblefoot) piece. I could easily imagine this being played in Derek and Mike's style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxOPylHYQps
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Mike wrote this on his message board:
"There's a reason I post WHAT I post WHEN I post it...
Don't you think if I wanted the guitar player announced, I would've done it???
I appreciate your enthusiasm here, but please respect my wishes to only disclose certain things when *I* want that info disclosed and announced
How on Earth can that be misunderstood or misinterpreted in any way...it would seem pretty obvious to me "
Wow. Just Wow.
STOP YELLING LIKE THAT MIKE! Joking aside, it's nobody's fault but the guy who posted the pic there! Do you think MP will be serving us Never Enough part 2 with his new supergroup? :biggrin:
B.Lee
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I get his point but he could have really realized the blame was on his own bandmates and not for fans breaking in into the studio to see what was going on. He could have said "I know you guys are the best detectives in the internet and that there are rumors out there, but you know I have a master plan on revealing things when I know will be the most exciting, and not everybody is analyzing Twitter posts and photos like they work in CSI, so please, keep the surprise for those who aren't actively looking for any minute detail and bear with me, trust me, it will be worth it!"
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I get his point but he could have really realized the blame was on his own bandmates and not for fans breaking in into the studio to see what was going on. He could have said "I know you guys are the best detectives in the internet and that there are rumors out there, but you know I have a master plan on revealing things when I know will be the most exciting, and not everybody is analyzing Twitter posts and photos like they work in CSI, so please, keep the surprise for those who aren't actively looking for any minute detail and bear with me, trust me, it will be worth it!"
Yeah, I guess it would have been more reasonable.
B.Lee
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Portnoy over-react ?
This is brand new information !
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/avatar_94b105a3b4e6_128.png)
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:lol
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This is already way more entertaining than I could have hoped for :rollin
MP, we missed you.
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Jesus. :lol
The only person he should be upset with is the person who posted the video that, you know, included Bumblefoot.
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Jesus. :lol
The only person he should be upset with is the person who posted the video that, you know, included Bumblefoot.
BUMBLEFOOT?
Is he in this band?
:neverusethis:
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Bumblefoot MAY be in THIS band but *I* won't let YOU know until *I* decide THE time is RIGHT !!!
: )
was ChaosSystem MP all along ?
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was ChaosSystem MP all along ?
You never know...
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No more teasing until the summer... I wonder if he can get everyone involved to stop posting on social media
Deleting posts on his own board must be the least effective way of stopping leaks.
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was ChaosSystem MP all along ?
You never know...
Whatever happened to him btw?
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Speaking about deleting posts, yesterday night I replied Mike's tweet of him and DS in the studio (this one: https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/840655819557367808) saying: @MikePortnoy @DerekSherinian Don't forget to tag @Bumblefoot ;) "
I went to sleep after that, since it was late here where I live. Well... woke up in the morning today and, guess what? Found MP had sent me a DM saying:
"Don't make me block you...
We have NOT announced our guitar player".
I'm not making this out, I took an screenshot and still have the message with me. If i ever figure out how to attach the shot here I'll post it, or I can mail it to anyone if you want :P
He didn't block me, and was "kind enough" to warn me first, so I deleted the tweet. Still, like some people have said in earlier posts, that's not the best way to manage the leaks. Just tell the people next to you to stop filming posting stuff online and that's it! Isn't even that difficult, Mike. I guess his "same level of control as I had in DT" means he gets to decide how the other guys use their social media accounts? :huh:
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Whatever happened to him btw?
He got banned I think. If I remember correctly, he started getting really confrontational towards the end.
Sorry... towards THE end
Also, gzarruk. I hope you find a way to post that screenshot. That sounds hilarious. I don't know how I'd react and that your tweet was "block worthy" :lol
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Maybe Bumblefoot isn't in the band yet?
Maybe Mike and Derek are jamming with multiple guys to see who works out. That would be the only way I can see why MP would get so angry at the info coming out.
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But it's not even something to get angry about. If it's not Bumblefoot, just say: "Nice try, but keep guessing" Not get pissed off and block people and delete comments and such
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I can understand why he is upset. But, he should know how his fans are.
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But it's not even something to get angry about. If it's not Bumblefoot, just say: "Nice try, but keep guessing" Not get pissed off and block people and delete comments and such
I also heard that he just got brand new floors.
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It's just a control thing. He had a specific release schedule in mind, and that's all out the window now.
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It's just a control thing. He had a specific release schedule in mind, and that's all out the window now.
But Bumblefoot already released a press statement!
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Also, gzarruk. I hope you find a way to post that screenshot. That sounds hilarious. I don't know how I'd react and that your tweet was "block worthy" :lol
Well, I said something like "Sorry Mike, will delete the tweet now". But yeah, that was interesting :lol
Since I don't really know how to attach pics here, I uploaded it to my dropbox so you can see it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q61ullvniexuvsp/MP%20Tweet.jpg?dl=0
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Right after I identified Bumblefoot I tweeted the pic to him Mike, and Derek but I deleted it not long after because I felt like Mike would call me out on it and I'd face the wrath of his rabid fanbase.
Bumblefoot actually followed me on Twitter after I posted it.
I hope we didn't get Derek's keyboard tech fired :mehlin
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Mike wrote this on his message board:
"There's a reason I post WHAT I post WHEN I post it...
Don't you think if I wanted the guitar player announced, I would've done it???
I appreciate your enthusiasm here, but please respect my wishes to only disclose certain things when *I* want that info disclosed and announced
How on Earth can that be misunderstood or misinterpreted in any way...it would seem pretty obvious to me "
So, doesn't look like the leaks are intentional. Not the best way to handle that sort of thing. Then again, if you're gonna hype this thing, why not just tell us who is in the band? Or just keep it secret you're even working on something.
:lol Oh Mike
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Right after I identified Bumblefoot I tweeted the pic to him Mike, and Derek but I deleted it not long after because I felt like Mike would call me out on it and I'd face the wrath of his rabid fanbase.
Bumblefoot actually followed me on Twitter after I posted it.
I hope we didn't get Derek's keyboard tech fired :mehlin
Maybe he went to the session with an ADTOE shirt? :biggrin:
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He still says *I*
All is still normal in the world
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(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/rumborak/Mobile%20Uploads/76062163_zpsc9r42djq.jpg) (https://smg.photobucket.com/user/rumborak/media/Mobile%20Uploads/76062163_zpsc9r42djq.jpg.html)
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It's almost surreal to see someone so proud of his interaction with fans continue to show such contempt for them. It's like he has no respect for any fan who doesn't march to the beat of everything he says and does.
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Of course you can speculate and look for clues!! That's half the fun!
The posts that were deleted were sharing information that was not supposed to be shared or leaked.
(and they were deleted for a reason...so please do not try to re-post them!)
...and several people (you know who you are) were going around to several social medias posting certain things based on that as "confirmed news" which is NOT the case....
The only things that CAN be confirmed and announced so far are the few things I have posted on MY social media...anything else from anywhere else is just "rumor and speculation" so far...
I DO indeed enjoy the excitement and speculation...that is indeed why I post "teasers" in the first place.
But there is a method to my madness and a reason why only certain things have been announced so far!
On that note, my "Del Fulvio" post yesterday is the last teaser for a while...there will likely not be any further official announcements or info on this band until Summer time when we are ready to properly "unveil" it and setup the album's release...
So, please speculate all you want from the "official" information that I have posted so far...
MP
Gzarruk, you know who you are! :lol
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Of course you can speculate and look for clues!! That's half the fun!
The posts that were deleted were sharing information that was not supposed to be shared or leaked.
(and they were deleted for a reason...so please do not try to re-post them!)
...and several people (you know who you are) were going around to several social medias posting certain things based on that as "confirmed news" which is NOT the case....
The only things that CAN be confirmed and announced so far are the few things I have posted on MY social media...anything else from anywhere else is just "rumor and speculation" so far...
I DO indeed enjoy the excitement and speculation...that is indeed why I post "teasers" in the first place.
But there is a method to my madness and a reason why only certain things have been announced so far!
On that note, my "Del Fulvio" post yesterday is the last teaser for a while...there will likely not be any further official announcements or info on this band until Summer time when we are ready to properly "unveil" it and setup the album's release...
So, please speculate all you want from the "official" information that I have posted so far...
MP
Gzarruk, you know who you are! :lol
Oh, man, I just posted a short tweet :lol Mike's OCD about having everything done his way is messing up with him, big time.
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Oh god, just imagine what happens when Blabbermouth gets wind of this...
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Where did he post this? On his forum?
Oh god, just imagine what happens when Blabbermouth gets wind of this...
It's been a while since something like this happened with Mike, we should've seen it coming :lol
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Yeah, it's over on his forum.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/DB2oahQFa0qeQ/giphy.gif)
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(https://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y393/Prog_Snob/6402d2_78e2d9c0897e457592540ef0517b573a_zpsov7dv0qk.jpg)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/DB2oahQFa0qeQ/giphy.gif)
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I will disembowel you with a spoon
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Yes please!
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It's almost surreal to see someone so proud of his interaction with fans continue to show such contempt for them. It's like he has no respect for any fan who doesn't march to the beat of everything he says and does.
The ironicc thing is that MP is the most active among DT (and ex-DT) members in social media but he seems to be the one who does not know how social media works. Just compare how he is handling the secrecy of this project to the way DT handled the secrecy of The Astonishing.
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It's almost surreal to see someone so proud of his interaction with fans continue to show such contempt for them. It's like he has no respect for any fan who doesn't march to the beat of everything he says and does.
The ironicc thing is that MP is the most active among DT (and ex-DT) members in social media but he seems to be the one who does not know how social media works. Just compare how he is handling the secrecy of this project to the way DT handled the secrecy of The Astonishing.
DT didn't handle it great either though. They had basically complete silence till the point where a good amount of people were losing interest.
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It's almost surreal to see someone so proud of his interaction with fans continue to show such contempt for them. It's like he has no respect for any fan who doesn't march to the beat of everything he says and does.
The ironicc thing is that MP is the most active among DT (and ex-DT) members in social media but he seems to be the one who does not know how social media works. Just compare how he is handling the secrecy of this project to the way DT handled the secrecy of The Astonishing.
DT didn't handle it great either though. They had basically complete silence till the point where a good amount of people were losing interest.
Yes, but I was talking more about how to handle the leakage of information in social media. In terms of drumming up interest, it's a different story.
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Oh, I gotcha. Yea, I don't remember any leaks until possibly the very end.
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Oh dear. While the bashing may or may not be fair, it does get old quite quickly and it's always the same people, too.
Anyway, I found myself checking out Bumblefoot's last solo release yesterday, Little Brother is Watching, in light of the possibility he's involved in MP's project. Have to say, I was quite impressed although it was more rock than I expected. Does anyone know if he's ever played metal before?
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Mike:
"The only things that CAN be confirmed and announced so far are the few things I have posted on MY social media...anything else from anywhere else is just "rumor and speculation" so far... "
No, anything else is a video posted by someone who works in the studio that had a split second frame of the guitarist. It's not that someone figured out the studio and stalked it out, seeing who's coming and going, or that anyone broke into the studio, hacked a personal and private account... someone in the studio messed up. He should have admitted it, I understand his point, and he's to admire for the attention to details and building up the excitement (I remember him saying that the downloads were not annoying for the financial side, but more for the spoiling of the surprise, he wanted DT fans to have the same experience of the new album at the same time), but it's so hard to just say "I know someone posted a video that started speculation, please, those of you who didn't see the video or got hold of the clues just don't spoil the surprise for those who don't even know such a video existed"?
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Maybe Bumblefoot isn't in the band yet?
Maybe Mike and Derek are jamming with multiple guys to see who works out. That would be the only way I can see why MP would get so angry at the info coming out.
This is actually a very good point!
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Maybe Bumblefoot isn't in the band yet?
Maybe Mike and Derek are jamming with multiple guys to see who works out. That would be the only way I can see why MP would get so angry at the info coming out.
This is actually a very good point!
Yeah I've thought about that too, or maybe Bumblefoot has a small guest spot or something. It's possible he's not 'the guitarist'. Worst thing would be that the clip was from a sort of audition or jam, and he didn't make the band.
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(https://i.imgur.com/b8HAf80.jpg)
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Maybe Bumblefoot isn't in the band yet?
Maybe Mike and Derek are jamming with multiple guys to see who works out. That would be the only way I can see why MP would get so angry at the info coming out.
This is actually a very good point!
Yeah I've thought about that too, or maybe Bumblefoot has a small guest spot or something. It's possible he's not 'the guitarist'. Worst thing would be that the clip was from a sort of audition or jam, and he didn't make the band.
Very good point. If that is so, I wonder to what extent it may decide MP not to have Ron Thal as a guitarist finally even if it was initially decided it would be him.
B.Lee
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BREAKING NEWS :
MP decides to fire the camera that took the photo in the studio. Poor guy wasn't prepared as he was envisioning a career in rock photographing.
Should I have written in green?
B.Lee
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Firing a camera is a bit extreme.
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I haven't listened to any of MP's post DT stuff at all (excluding Nightmare by A7X I suppose). I might check out this 'supergroup', or I might not, either way though this is all :corn :corn :corn
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I wonder if this will be a "Prog Allegiance" kind of thing, with a revolving door of musicians with every song. That might be why he doesn't want the news about Bumblefoot coming out because he's not the only guitarist involved and he doesnt want people to think that.
Derek said he was spending 10 days in the studio, so I think they've written the bulk of the music now and are gonna record the rest of the guest appearances over the next few months, hence why he doesn't want to announce a lineup yet. He doesn't know who else will/will not be involved.
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Yeah all it needed was
" : ) oops!!! Someone was a bit camera happy in the studio !!
Close call !! But keep guessing !! : ) "
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This thread is awesome.
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I think you guys are being way too harsh on Mike. Seriously.
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(https://i.imgur.com/b8HAf80.jpg)
Thanks for posting it here! I'll remove it from my dropbox now :tup
I wonder if this will be a "Prog Allegiance" kind of thing, with a revolving door of musicians with every song. That might be why he doesn't want the news about Bumblefoot coming out because he's not the only guitarist involved and he doesnt want people to think that.
Derek said he was spending 10 days in the studio, so I think they've written the bulk of the music now and are gonna record the rest of the guest appearances over the next few months, hence why he doesn't want to announce a lineup yet. He doesn't know who else will/will not be involved.
I don't think so. On the pic I shared (and Kotowboy posted) Mike said "we have NOT announced our guitar player", he didn't say players or anything like that. I think Bumblefoot is the guitarist for the band, just that MP is overreacting with the leaks here, as he clearly wants people to know these things when HE decides it's time to. Also, a "prog allegiance" band would make me lose my interest in this album, seriously :-\
Also, as a fun fact, Bumblefoot played a couple guest solos on Jordan's cover album The Road Home, a few years ago.
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I think you guys are being way too harsh on Mike. Seriously.
I wouldn't say so. I think it is valid for him to be pissed or annoyed if things leak before he wants them to but I can't say I agree with the way he is going about it. Taking it out on his fanbase because they are curious is not really a good move IMO. It's obviously not been hard to find these leaks so really his anger is aimed in the wrong direction. If Bumblefoot released a press statement then it seems daft to get frustrated that his fans then shared this or whatever :lol
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I think you guys are being way too harsh on Mike. Seriously.
On the contrary, compared to some of the stuff I've seen thrown his way over the years, this was less than I expected. :lol
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Compared to some of the stuff he has thrown our way, this is pretty mild.
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Compared to some of the stuff he has thrown our way, this is pretty mild.
Indeed :lol
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And of course, we are under no obligation to take anything down that has been posted here. That isn't to say I might not consider it. But
(https://i.imgur.com/miwrQz6.jpg)
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Take caution in your tone, Commander. I'm a fair guy, but this fucking heat is making me absolutely crazy.
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I personally think this whole event was rather bumbled by Mike, and he stuck a foot in his mouth.
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I personally think this whole event was rather bumbled by Mike, and he stuck a foot in his mouth.
I see what you did thare. Good joke! :lol
B.Lee
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I personally think this whole event was rather bumbled by Mike, and he stuck a foot in his mouth.
:clap:
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I personally think this whole event was rather bumbled by Mike, and he stuck a foot in his mouth.
lol
But it is what it is. Hopefully the rest of his rollout will go smoothly. And, of course, what matters most is how good the music is.
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I think that aspect makes it so hilarious, at least to me. I mean, who gives a flying hoot about the exact date when musician X is announced. What matters is the music.
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Does anyone else think that Bumblefoot is overrated? Also, isn't he in that band with Scott Stapp now? Honestly if he is the primary guitar player then my level of excitement for this has decreased.
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Overrated? Not even.
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.
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People dismissing a project when they haven't heard a single not yet...I'll never understand that :\
Who dismissed it?
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Does anyone else think that Bumblefoot is overrated? Also, isn't he in that band with Scott Stapp now? Honestly if he is the primary guitar player then my level of excitement for this has decreased.
Not at all. Ron Thal is a very good guitarist and very creative at that.
B.Lee
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People dismissing a project when they haven't heard a single not yet...I'll never understand that :\
Who dismissed it?
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People dismissing a project when they haven't heard a single not yet...I'll never understand that :\
Who dismissed it?
Referring to this:
Does anyone else think that Bumblefoot is overrated? Also, isn't he in that band with Scott Stapp now? Honestly if he is the primary guitar player then my level of excitement for this has decreased.
Maybe dismissed wasn't the right word, my bad, but at least wait until we hear a single or something before passing judgement on a brand new project. I'll admit Bumblefoot doesn't impress me but I'm definitely interested in hearing how he sounds in this kind of setting.
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Sure, but his excitement can decrease.
If a guitarist you didn't care for was announced, you'd probably be a little less excited too.
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It was an unnecessary comment. Apologies. :angel:
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It was an unnecessary comment. Apologies. :angel:
We don't take kindly to unnecessary comments round these parts!
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The only thing i heard by Bumblefoot is GnR. I have no idea what to expect from him.
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It was an unnecessary comment. Apologies. :angel:
We don't take kindly to unnecessary comments round these parts!
:emo:
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Taking it out on his fanbase because they are curious is not really a good move IMO. It's obviously not been hard to find these leaks so really his anger is aimed in the wrong direction. If Bumblefoot released a press statement then it seems daft to get frustrated that his fans then shared this or whatever :lol
It also seems pretty counter-intuitive to me.
>posts teases to get people excited
>people get excited enough to dig into what's been teased to work out who the guitarist probably is
>gets annoyed at fans for getting too excited
Seems to me the excited reaction it generated is exactly what Mike would surely have wanted, even if it meant accidentally revealing the guitarist earlier than planned.
*shrug*
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I think that aspect makes it so hilarious, at least to me. I mean, who gives a flying hoot about the exact date when musician X is announced. What matters is the music.
No shit. I mean, maybe Bumblefoot isn't officially in the band yet. Just say so. Is this a Derek & Mike led project and they're still figuring out who the rest will be? Just say so. Perhaps Bumblefoot is one of 7 world class guitarists auditioning for the band and they're making a documentary about the selection process in which case Eddie Trunk will just leak who it is. Just kidding. Eddie would never do that to his friend. Only to his friend's ex-band.
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Taking it out on his fanbase because they are curious is not really a good move IMO. It's obviously not been hard to find these leaks so really his anger is aimed in the wrong direction. If Bumblefoot released a press statement then it seems daft to get frustrated that his fans then shared this or whatever :lol
It also seems pretty counter-intuitive to me.
>posts teases to get people excited
>people get excited enough to dig into what's been teased to work out who the guitarist probably is
>gets annoyed at fans for getting too excited
Seems to me the excited reaction it generated is exactly what Mike would surely have wanted, even if it meant accidentally revealing the guitarist earlier than planned.
*shrug*
Exactly, you can't have it both ways. If you want to tease your fans to get them excited you can't get angry when they unearth some new info you didn't actually want them to know about :lol
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I don't know much about Ron Thal, but I searched on youtube some music from "the adventures of Bumblefoot" and my first impression was good. I found it very interesting, instrumental songs, not too metal, but with cool Zappa influences, without being too crazy.
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re: Bumblefoot -- wouldn't surprise me at all. NYC guy, MP probably knows him well, Art of Anarchy is just getting started, and very different than progressive metal.
That said, if it WAS him, I'd be a tad disappointed. However, they could be auditioning guitarists too. I think MP's reaction probably has had the opposite effect that he wanted. Because of his outburst, he has people thinking it IS Bumble, as opposed to one guy. Who knows, maybe there's two guitarists in the band. Something JP said he'd never do with DT, but maybe Mike would do it.
Long story short -- MP overreacted (shocker), Bumblefoot may be in the band, and hey, dude can play. Not sure if he can really write songs, but he can play. For me personally, it wouldn't be what I wanted to see/hear, but I'm looking forward to the album info this summer.
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Has MP ever been in a band with two full time guitarists? (As in not someone who occasionally plays like Casey)
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Regarding Ron Thal, I think he is an incredibly skilled guitarist. His own stuff is quirky (which is good) but never exciting, but this might be one of those cases where maybe the influence of the other guys adds some new angle.
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Has MP ever been in a band with two full time guitarists? (As in not someone who occasionally plays like Casey)
Do you count him being "in" A7X or Twisted Sister? Adrenaline Mob initially had two.
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I'm going to say no to bands he subbed for.
Wasn't sure how many guitarists TA have.
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Wasn't sure how many guitarists TA have.
Same is NM Band--one "full-time" guitarist, with Neal often subbing in on guitar as well.
So I guess the answer to your question is, no, he hasn't been in a band with 2 guitarists where he was somewhat in control of the band or involved in the writing. But he has played in a handful of bands with 2 guitarists, so it isn't totally foreign to him. But not sure that really advances the ball in terms of whether he will have 2 (or more) guitarists in this new band.
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Almost all his bands have only one (main) guitarist, so he decided to try something different and got 3 for TSF :lol
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By the wording of the Twitter DM that was posted earlier in this thread, it seems like this new project will feature ONLY ONE guitarist, so if isn't Bumblefoot, then he's not in it at all.
-Marc.
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I was going to point out earlier that his use of the singular might seem to indicate that. But we can't say that is the case for certain, as he is keeping things intentionally vague.
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I listened to a quick sampling of Bumblefoot's solo work. Not too bad. Some people say his playing is more rock than metal... and some people seem to think he isn't going to be up to snuff..
Well look at DS after he left Dream Theater. He wound up going from kinda meh (I love his playing but he wasn't super duper technical) to "holy shit" in the Planet X stuff.
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I just realized this: Geddy and Alex are available... are you guys thinking what I'm thinking?
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I think that aspect makes it so hilarious, at least to me. I mean, who gives a flying hoot about the exact date when musician X is announced. What matters is the music.
:tup :tup
I just realized this: Geddy and Alex are available... are you guys thinking what I'm thinking?
No.
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Never have a followed a thread so closely for an artist/band whose music I have no interest in. Keep it up guys!
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All of this talk of Bumblefoot, for some reason, reminded me of the fact that Buckethead was in Guns N' Roses for awhile in 2000-2002 and Bumblefoot joined in about 2006.
I only mentioned that because I think it would be kind of funny to have Buckethead in MP's band because that dynamic would be funny to me. I've heard before that Buckethead is not easy to deal with, so I don't think it would go too well, but maybe the end result would be good.
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Bumblefoot, Buckethead, WTF is this? And I thought Zachy Savage or whatever the A7X guys are called were stupid.
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All of this talk of Bumblefoot, for some reason, reminded me of the fact that Buckethead was in Guns N' Roses for awhile in 2000-2002 and Bumblefoot joined in about 2006.
I only mentioned that because I think it would be kind of funny to have Buckethead in MP's band because that dynamic would be funny to me. I've heard before that Buckethead is not easy to deal with, so I don't think it would go too well, but maybe the end result would be good.
Buckethead is also a very prolific songwriter (he has something like 60 albums) who would not be happy with not having a lot of creative control.
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Buckethead does 60 albums a month :lol
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Buckethead is also a very prolific songwriter (he has something like 60 albums) who would not be happy with not having a lot of creative control.
I think you mean 60 albums a day. He just released his 285th album last week :lol
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Bumblefoot, Buckethead, WTF is this? And I thought Zachy Savage or whatever the A7X guys are called were stupid.
I'm still waiting for the bass player to be Stumblebum.
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I wonder if Bumblefoot ever took a Slash in Buckethead's bucket.
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I wonder if Bumblefoot ever took a Slash in Buckethead's bucket.
Yeah, probably made him Dizzy in his Izzy.
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Bumblefoot, Buckethead, WTF is this? And I thought Zachy Savage or whatever the A7X guys are called were stupid.
I'm still waiting for the bass player to be Stumblebum.
Fun fact: I was reading up on Iron Maiden for some reason and found out there actually is a guy in existence who calls himself Thunderstick.
Maybe they could replace Portnoy with Thunderstick.
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Bumblefoot, Buckethead, WTF is this? And I thought Zachy Savage or whatever the A7X guys are called were stupid.
In fairness to Ron Thal, he initially did not go by the Bumblefoot name. I guess the name stuck because he became an overnight sensation in the guitar instrumental community after he released his debut album, The Adventures of Bumblefoot.
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Buckethead is also a very prolific songwriter (he has something like 60 albums) who would not be happy with not having a lot of creative control.
I think you mean 60 albums a day. He just released his 285th album last week :lol
Damn you weren't kidding :omg: :omg: :omg:
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Yeaaaah, but let's be honest, the vast majority of those albums are "guitar noodlings of the day".
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Buckethead vs Omar Rodriguez-Lopez
the contest on who can release more albums in a lifetime.
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Yeaaaah, but let's be honest, the vast majority of those albums are "guitar noodlings of the day".
Exactly. We're the technology available to Hendrix, EVH etc that would allow them to record and mix right there on the spot they'd have done the same. "Writing" and recording an album these days is pretty friggin simple. I could do it with a couple neighbors.
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The obvious big selling point of this band is going to be the vocalist and the songwriter. If so far, your main songwriters (music) are Derek and (assuming the thing we are talking about is true) Bumblefoot, that leaves me underwhelmed. But again, Bumble could surprise and slay, and I like Derek as a songwriter. So that leaves the big thing -- who is singing. I'm really curious if MP does the expected. I hope he does, and I hope the guy slays (would be a real interesting move if he went with a frontwoman).
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The obvious big selling point of this band is going to be the vocalist and the songwriter. If so far, your main songwriters (music) are Derek and (assuming the thing we are talking about is true) Bumblefoot, that leaves me underwhelmed. But again, Bumble could surprise and slay, and I like Derek as a songwriter. So that leaves the big thing -- who is singing. I'm really curious if MP does the expected. I hope he does, and I hope the guy slays (would be a real interesting move if he went with a frontwoman).
This is kinda where I am with this whole thing. I look forward to the reveal of the singer, that will be really interesting.
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I worked out that id written, recorded and released 15 albums of original material since 2006.
A lot of those are only 30 minutes long - but still.
It shouldn't take a band like TOOL 11 years and counting to come up with 75 minutes of music.
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I only saw him once with GnR, in one of the Rock in Rio editions. He put on a stormtrooper mask, but missed a bunch of notes to the point of embarass,ent, and started playing well when he took it off. It was embarassing. But when he´s "serious" about his playing, he´s really good - at least from the YouTube videos I´ve seen.
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I don't want to jump to any conclusions yet, even about the songwriting. I mean, we know Derek has writing chops. And he can play and compose on both keyboard and guitar. I have no idea what Thal's writing skills are like. But I also don't know that he is the sole guitar player. There might be another. And whoever is on bass or guitar may also be a prolific writer. We just don't know at this point. I'm trying to just not have any preconceived notions. Except for the fact that most true progressive metal does little for me and generally leaves me cold, outside of a handful of bands (DT, modern FW, Redemption).
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I thought it was pretty obvious that MP was single handedly writing every song?
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I worked out that id written, recorded and released 15 albums of original material since 2006.
A lot of those are only 30 minutes long - but still.
It shouldn't take a band like TOOL 11 years and counting to come up with 75 minutes of music.
Hasn't TOOL, or at least Maynard all but admitted through various interviews that the sole reason they record and/or tour is financial? That there's no love of music or passion influencing them. Heck, I remember reading an interview where he rips on fans for being fans.
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I don't want to jump to any conclusions yet, even about the songwriting. I mean, we know Derek has writing chops. And he can play and compose on both keyboard and guitar. I have no idea what Thal's writing skills are like. But I also don't know that he is the sole guitar player. There might be another. And whoever is on bass or guitar may also be a prolific writer. We just don't know at this point. I'm trying to just not have any preconceived notions. Except for the fact that most true progressive metal does little for me and generally leaves me cold, outside of a handful of bands (DT, modern FW, Redemption).
Whether you like his music or not is one thing, but he has chops. He's got, what, ten albums or so, and as I understand it, he's done a lot with TV and ad jingles and theme music.
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I worked out that id written, recorded and released 15 albums of original material since 2006.
A lot of those are only 30 minutes long - but still.
It shouldn't take a band like TOOL 11 years and counting to come up with 75 minutes of music.
Hasn't TOOL, or at least Maynard all but admitted through various interviews that the sole reason they record and/or tour is financial? That there's no love of music or passion influencing them. Heck, I remember reading an interview where he rips on fans for being fans.
Wouldn't shock me.
If you loved to create - you wouldn't have done nothing for 11 years.
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re: TOOL -- that is a weird band. I love the music, but it has been 11 years. I know there was a huge lawsuit impeding them, but I thought (could be wrong) it was settled a couple years ago. If they were serious about putting out music, you would think they would have by now.
re: bosk1 comments on Portnoy group -- yeah, you're on there. But it's hard to not expect it to be SOMETHING. Derek absolutely can write (his solo albums are awesome). But like you, I have no Bumblefoot writing knowledge. I am sure he can, but I don't really recall anything he's ever done being more than a blip on a radar screen (and that was his involvement with GnR). So I am hoping, if he IS part of this group, he either has been holding back for years in the writing department, or there's someone else, guitar player-wise that compliments him and is a killer songwriter.
But the vocals...the vocals. MP has to get that right. If he doesn't, this band will sink before it even releases a record.
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I have no Bumblefoot writing knowledge. I am sure he can, but I don't really recall anything he's ever done being more than a blip on a radar screen (and that was his involvement with GnR).
He wrote the theme to THAT METAL SHOW. :metal
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
:biggrin:
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re: bosk1 comments on Portnoy group -- yeah, you're on there. But it's hard to not expect it to be SOMETHING.
Yeah, I know. But when I hear MP, I simultaneously have two separate reactions: (1) "It's Mike. And it's metal. That reminds me of DT, so it's bound to be really good!" And (2) "It's 'progressive metal,' so that means I'll probably spend some time with it trying to justify why I should like it, and I'll ultimately just realize that I don't." Those are my two knee-jerk reactions. And, to be fair, both of them are unfair reactions, and neither one of them may be right. And that thought process just highlights to me why having expectations going in just isn't really fair or productive. And notwithstanding that I think Mike was WAY off base about his response to fans figuring out that Thal is in this, I get where he is coming from and think it is motivated by him not wanting people to form preconceived notions before hearing the music. And especially knowing his fan base, I think that's valid.
But the vocals...the vocals. MP has to get that right. If he doesn't, this band will sink before it even releases a record.
Yeah, I agree. But I think my conception of getting the vocals "right" may be a bit broader than yours. I've broadened my perspective a lot of the years about vocals, just because of exposure to bands doing vocal styles that I didn't think I would like, but have come to appreciate. And some of that is in connection with projects Mike has worked on. And don't get me wrong--I would love for him to get the next Russell Allen. But as long as the vocalist has the chops to pull of vocals that fit the music, that's the right call. It doesn't necessarily have to be someone who belts like James in his prime, or Russell. But it can't be someone like the guy from Haken either.
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re: TOOL -- that is a weird band. I love the music, but it has been 11 years. I know there was a huge lawsuit impeding them, but I thought (could be wrong) it was settled a couple years ago. If they were serious about putting out music, you would think they would have by now.
Well, Maynard has continued to be very prolific. Not his fault Tool fans aren't interested - and are sometimes outright dismissive - of the type of material he has been putting out. As for the rest of the guys - who knows.
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Yeaaaah, but let's be honest, the vast majority of those albums are "guitar noodlings of the day".
False. I USED to think that but really delved in when he had his $2 per album sale. It seems about a quarter of what hes done is beautiful mellow stuff. Another quarter is awesome rock/metal stuff. There is also a fair mix of straight up shredding, funk, and even albums where he just makes noise for 30 minutes. So i could do without half his stuff but the other half is excellent.
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What if he gets Gildenlöw? He's a great singer and he has writing skills. Of course, DG is busy with his own band right now.
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What if he gets Gildenlöw? He's a great singer and he has writing skills. Of course, DG is busy with his own band right now.
I'd only want Gildenlow if DG was fully enthusiastic about it and had at least 50% creative control.
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Geddy Lee
MP
Bumblefoot
Derek
Gildenlow
I'd pay good money to see this lineup play ANYTHING. Release an album of Bieber covers for all I care.
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That are the odds that its Ted Leonard on Vox?
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Definitely somewhere between 0 and 100%.
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Definitely somewhere between 0 and 100%.
:o You have insider knowledge ?!?!
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Definitely somewhere between 0 and 100%.
If MP wanted that info out there, he would've posted it himself. Aren't you paying attention?
You're going to cause another bolded angry message!
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Yeaaaah, but let's be honest, the vast majority of those albums are "guitar noodlings of the day".
False. I USED to think that but really delved in when he had his $2 per album sale. It seems about a quarter of what hes done is beautiful mellow stuff. Another quarter is awesome rock/metal stuff. There is also a fair mix of straight up shredding, funk, and even albums where he just makes noise for 30 minutes. So i could do without half his stuff but the other half is excellent.
This. Tons of variety in those albums. Also a lot of them are noodly, but a surprising amount of them seem well crafted and composed.
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That are the odds that its Ted Leonard on Vox?
I'd be down for that. I liked his work with his previous prog metal super group Affector, so I could hear him on something like this, which oddly enough featured Neal Morse's other live drummer from his European Band tour days (before Mike and Randy started touring with him), as well as keyboards from Neal himself and Derek Sherinian.
-Marc.
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If Ted is involved, I'd be on top of that like Jackie on a jackalope movie starring Nick Cage.
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Ted is from the West Coast, so I'd love to see that be the case.
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Definitely somewhere between 0 and 100%.
Dude! Spoilers!
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Definitely somewhere between 0 and 100%.
If MP wanted that info out there, he would've posted it himself. Aren't you paying attention?
You're going to cause another bolded angry message!
Don't MAKE him BLOCK you.
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I don't want to jump to any conclusions yet, even about the songwriting. I mean, we know Derek has writing chops. And he can play and compose on both keyboard and guitar. I have no idea what Thal's writing skills are like. But I also don't know that he is the sole guitar player. There might be another. And whoever is on bass or guitar may also be a prolific writer. We just don't know at this point. I'm trying to just not have any preconceived notions. Except for the fact that most true progressive metal does little for me and generally leaves me cold, outside of a handful of bands (DT, modern FW, Redemption).
Ron Thal can write. Here is an example:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcjq5I0egOI
He's more of in the Mike Keneally / Steve Vai school of quirky songwriting, but I think he could work well with Derek.
And he can sing:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DnLBEiLOSCc
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I mean, I think we all knew has has written and he also does some singing, the question we were asking was can he write well enough and strong enough to make this band something we all care about.
That clip you showed for his writing doesn't do much to inspire me. It's not bad at all, it's just very.......been there done that.
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Been there done that today, but that song was released in 1995. Mike Keneally has not even released an album back then and Derek was just starting with DT. Ron Thal recorded that in his parents' house's basement. :rollin
Anyway, here is more recent output, written when his father died:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NzBGmKqDGC8
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That song wasn't going to be groundbreaking in 1995 either. It was just more with the times.
And how a dude wrote 20 years ago has no impact on how he writes today.
Also, Mike Portnoy......Ron Thal.........Billy Sheehan? RUSSELL ALLEN!?
Happened in 2013 if you're curious what that would sound like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhvUBm0LrRg
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Also, Mike Portnoy......Ron Thal.........Billy Sheehan? RUSSELL ALLEN!?
Happened in 2013 if you're curious what that would sound like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhvUBm0LrRg
Russell would be great, but he's in the process of creating a new AMOB album. And, please please please, no more Billy Sheehan. He's a great bassist, but he doesn't fit this genere at all. He ruined the PSMS stuff imo.
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Also, Mike Portnoy......Ron Thal.........Billy Sheehan? RUSSELL ALLEN!?
Happened in 2013 if you're curious what that would sound like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhvUBm0LrRg
Russell would be great, but he's in the process of creating a new AMOB album. And, please please please, no more Billy Sheehan. He's a great bassist, but he doesn't fit this genere at all. He ruined the PSMS stuff imo.
Oh I know, I was just talking about that video.
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Also, Mike Portnoy......Ron Thal.........Billy Sheehan? RUSSELL ALLEN!?
Happened in 2013 if you're curious what that would sound like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhvUBm0LrRg
Russell would be great, but he's in the process of creating a new AMOB album. And, please please please, no more Billy Sheehan. He's a great bassist, but he doesn't fit this genere at all. He ruined the PSMS stuff imo.
Oh I know, I was just talking about that video.
Great you found that video, though, didn't remember it at all.
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I'm with Adami that while Thal's output is very well executed, it has a strong "been there done that" feeling. The most interesting song I've heard so far ("Don't know who to pray to anymore") has a very 90s feel to it.
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BTW, people are wracking their brains about a possible singer. What about the one that sang for LTE and Planet X?
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BTW, people are wracking their brains about a possible singer. What about the one that sang for LTE and Planet X?
Pretty sure John Myung is busy.
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:lol
Seriously though, I would say there's a very good chance this might be instrumental.
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:lol
Seriously though, I would say there's a very good chance this might be instrumental.
Yea, I'm mostly interested in seeing who the bassist is. If he picks a standard who has chops or someone with a really cool personality in his playing.
....or her.
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Happened in 2013 if you're curious what that would sound like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhvUBm0LrRg
In the time of iPhones being able to make great videos, why do people continue recording stuff with a potato?
I hope the project is not instrumental. That's cool for like one or two albums.. but I'd really like a singer to join.
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The deleting of post continues on Mikes board...
Someone asked What the best guess for the guitarplayer was now.
To which I replied: Not gonna put my foot in and risk getting deleted...
Now the question is deleted makig my answer look really strange :mehlin :rollin
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The censorship is strong!
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:lol
Seriously though, I would say there's a very good chance this might be instrumental.
Good point, it might be. Personally I hope not, but you're right there's a good possibility it is.
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Instrumental would not interest me at all. I think if they want to have a chance at wider appeal (relatively speaking), it needs vocals.
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:lol
Seriously though, I would say there's a very good chance this might be instrumental.
And if so, I predict now, it will be a total flop except for a handful of Dream Theater fan and uber prog people. I doubt MP would go through all that trouble to do a very niche project. But who knows.
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I feel like an instrumental prog-metal group with Mike and Derek would basically just be PSMS with original tunes. That's why I'm hoping there is a vocalist, so that this is something different.
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Ron Thal and Mike Portnoy on vocals.
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:lol
Seriously though, I would say there's a very good chance this might be instrumental.
And if so, I predict now, it will be a total flop except for a handful of Dream Theater fan and uber prog people. I doubt MP would go through all that trouble to do a very niche project. But who knows.
Agreed. I would likely buy it, but with lukewarm interest.
That 2013 NAMM video is cool, by the way. It's pretty neat seeing accomplished players messing around and being so loose and so tight at the same time.
But in any case, as we continue to speculate about who the players will be, just keep in mind that there is no shortage of talent out there in the music world. I have no doubt that whoever Mike pulled in will have serious chops. And while there are plenty of examples of talented individuals coming together to make music that somehow doesn't manage to gel, Mike does have a pretty good track record in terms of quality output when he has a fair degree of creative control. It isn't a "spotless" record, but it's pretty darned good.
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I think an instrumental project would be a huge mistake.
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I think an instrumental project would be a huge mistake.
I think it's a matter of intent. If he just wants a fun project with some people he wants to make music with again, instrumental is fine. If he wants this to be a financially stable thing with a stronger future, then I absolutely think he needs a vocalist.
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It would be really cool if, for this project, he didn't hand pick a bunch of guys that are in existing bands. There are plenty of session guys with the chops and talent to play at this level... guys that haven't found their niche or band yet. It would be really interesting to hear MP with some really talented guys who haven't had a voice yet.
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I think an instrumental project would be a huge mistake.
Yes, with Derek onboard, it might get compared to Planet X. Which has come out with pretty good albums and actually became a showcase for Virgil Donati's superdrummer abilities.
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The deleting of post continues on Mikes board...
Someone asked What the best guess for the guitarplayer was now.
To which I replied: Not gonna put my foot in and risk getting deleted...
Now the question is deleted makig my answer look really strange :mehlin :rollin
I wonder if MP actually takes time to go through every post to see which ones violate his rule of "I'm the only one who can post info about this, if you do, I'll block you".
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I love MP but the fact that he still doesn't seem to understand how the internet works boggles my mind. I think he means well but he really comes off bad in a lot of these situations. Kinds reminds of people who take naked pictures of themselves and then freak out when they get leaked. What the hell do they expect is going to happen?
This will be a pass for me if it's instrumental.
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Kinds reminds of people who take naked pictures of themselves and then freak out when they get leaked. What the hell do they expect is going to happen?
Well, first off, that's something COMPLETELY different. This would be a whole different situation had someone hacked into Mike's phone, stole the video, and posted it without his consent.
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I think an instrumental project would be a huge mistake.
Yes, with Derek onboard, it might get compared to Planet X. Which has come out with pretty good albums and actually became a showcase for Virgil Donati's superdrummer abilities.
I definitely agree on that point. I feel PlanetX was so out there in terms of skill, it would be pointless to tread that same ground, because frankly MP would fall short in that comparison anyway. He had to massively simplify that Planet X tune when they played it live.
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All of this talk of Bumblefoot, for some reason, reminded me of the fact that Buckethead was in Guns N' Roses for awhile in 2000-2002 and Bumblefoot joined in about 2006.
I only mentioned that because I think it would be kind of funny to have Buckethead in MP's band because that dynamic would be funny to me. I've heard before that Buckethead is not easy to deal with, so I don't think it would go too well, but maybe the end result would be good.
Buckethead's great, one of my favorite players. I used to have the entire Chinese Democracy album with all of BH's solos intact before they replaced parts with Bumble, and it was better than what ended up being released. He's an odd guy but a brilliant player musician.
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I wish Buckethead did more band projects, but unfortunately he seems to have really isolated himself the past couple years.
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The deleting of post continues on Mikes board...
Someone asked What the best guess for the guitarplayer was now.
To which I replied: Not gonna put my foot in and risk getting deleted...
Now the question is deleted makig my answer look really strange :mehlin :rollin
It amuses me that on Mike's own board you can't discuss his past band or his present band, but only the ones middle ones, and I'm not even sure all of those are fair game. Bosk should change the rules here so that we can discuss Petrucci, Myung and Kevin Moore, but Mangini, JLB and Rudess are all off limits. Portnoy and Sherinian can be discussed on odd/even days, but only he knows which is which.
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All of this talk of Bumblefoot, for some reason, reminded me of the fact that Buckethead was in Guns N' Roses for awhile in 2000-2002 and Bumblefoot joined in about 2006.
I only mentioned that because I think it would be kind of funny to have Buckethead in MP's band because that dynamic would be funny to me. I've heard before that Buckethead is not easy to deal with, so I don't think it would go too well, but maybe the end result would be good.
Buckethead's great, one of my favorite players. I used to have the entire Chinese Democracy album with all of BH's solos intact before they replaced parts with Bumble, and it was better than what ended up being released. He's an odd guy but a brilliant player musician.
Holy crap. You USED TO have that? Man, I didn't know such a thing existed. Would kill to hear that.
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All of this talk of Bumblefoot, for some reason, reminded me of the fact that Buckethead was in Guns N' Roses for awhile in 2000-2002 and Bumblefoot joined in about 2006.
I only mentioned that because I think it would be kind of funny to have Buckethead in MP's band because that dynamic would be funny to me. I've heard before that Buckethead is not easy to deal with, so I don't think it would go too well, but maybe the end result would be good.
Buckethead's great, one of my favorite players. I used to have the entire Chinese Democracy album with all of BH's solos intact before they replaced parts with Bumble, and it was better than what ended up being released. He's an odd guy but a brilliant player musician.
Holy crap. You USED TO have that? Man, I didn't know such a thing existed. Would kill to hear that.
Yeah, I would to. Lost them in a computer crash, and something happened to the backup discs. There were different leaks, including some instrumental demos. I know Shackler's Revenge was one that had a totally different solo on it than on the actual album, and that's one I've never been able to find again.
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The deleting of post continues on Mikes board...
Someone asked What the best guess for the guitarplayer was now.
To which I replied: Not gonna put my foot in and risk getting deleted...
Now the question is deleted makig my answer look really strange :mehlin :rollin
It amuses me that on Mike's own board you can't discuss his past band or his present band, but only the ones middle ones, and I'm not even sure all of those are fair game. Bosk should change the rules here so that we can discuss Petrucci, Myung and Kevin Moore, but Mangini, JLB and Rudess are all off limits. Portnoy and Sherinian can be discussed on odd/even days, but only he knows which is which.
:lol :lol :lol
Let's sum him up:
-Loves social media.
-Gets overly defensive about any criticism or perceived slight.
-His hardcore fans are apologetic to the point of being almost scary.
-Loves to talk and say anything under the guise of "telling it like it is" and/or "setting the facts straight."
Wait, are we talking about Mike Portnoy or Donald Trump?
:eek :eek :eek
:lol :lol
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All of this talk of Bumblefoot, for some reason, reminded me of the fact that Buckethead was in Guns N' Roses for awhile in 2000-2002 and Bumblefoot joined in about 2006.
I only mentioned that because I think it would be kind of funny to have Buckethead in MP's band because that dynamic would be funny to me. I've heard before that Buckethead is not easy to deal with, so I don't think it would go too well, but maybe the end result would be good.
Buckethead's great, one of my favorite players. I used to have the entire Chinese Democracy album with all of BH's solos intact before they replaced parts with Bumble, and it was better than what ended up being released. He's an odd guy but a brilliant player musician.
Holy crap. You USED TO have that? Man, I didn't know such a thing existed. Would kill to hear that.
Yeah, I would to. Lost them in a computer crash, and something happened to the backup discs. There were different leaks, including some instrumental demos. I know Shackler's Revenge was one that had a totally different solo on it than on the actual album, and that's one I've never been able to find again.
Kind of weird Bumble does solos on the few songs Buckethead wrote.
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Perhaps he has to pay a fee or something, which is likely what DT had to do when they took the albums covers of the full albums they covered and altered them a bit.
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Perhaps he has to pay a fee or something, which is likely what DT had to do when they took the albums covers of the full albums they covered and altered them a bit.
Interesting theory. I thought of that myself. As it stands, I deleted my initial comment because I got the MP threads mixed up when i meant to post in the other.
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Okay. I threw my comments into the other thread, for the sake of continuity.
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I think an instrumental project would be a huge mistake.
I think it's a matter of intent. If he just wants a fun project with some people he wants to make music with again, instrumental is fine. If he wants this to be a financially stable thing with a stronger future, then I absolutely think he needs a vocalist.
Agreed. I wouldn't mind it being an instrumental album. Other than LTE, he hasn't done an instrumental project. It would actually be a nice change from his very few projects with singers.
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As many others said here, I hope the bassist is not Billy Sheehan. He´s not in the studio with them anyways, and he´s done two other projects with MP. But I really can´t see why some of us think "Billy´s style doesn´t fit prog at all". I thought his sound blended perfectly with MP´s drums in PSMS. Is it his clothing style that bothers you? His stage presence? I know he´s associated with Talas, Mr. Big, David Lee Roth etc. and this carries an image, but aside from that, I really can´t see how his playing style "doesn´t fit prog".
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I can only answer for myself, but Billy has the worst bass sound of any bass player I know of.
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I can only answer for myself, but Billy has the worst bass sound of any bass player I know of.
:o :o :-\ :-\
I love him!
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As a bassist, I dislike him because he overplays everything. He can never just play the role of a bassist, he always has to be flashy. That's ok from time to time, and John Myung is a good example of that working.
Billy is a guitarist who plays a bass, nothing more.
And yeah, his tone is horrible.
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Yeah, that must be why Eddie Van Halen, the king of tones, didn´t want him anywhere near Van Halen.
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As many others said here, I hope the bassist is not Billy Sheehan. He´s not in the studio with them anyways, and he´s done two other projects with MP. But I really can´t see why some of us think "Billy´s style doesn´t fit prog at all". I thought his sound blended perfectly with MP´s drums in PSMS. Is it his clothing style that bothers you? His stage presence? I know he´s associated with Talas, Mr. Big, David Lee Roth etc. and this carries an image, but aside from that, I really can´t see how his playing style "doesn´t fit prog".
I think it's because he's a scientologist :lol
I love Billy's playing. The only reason I'd say I'd rather him not be involved is because he already is involved with MP's other projects.
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I've never had a problem with Billy's playing or sound. I never heard him in Talas. He does go crazy and play more of a "lead bass" in PSMS or, say, Vai solo stuff. But not in more "straightforward" rock. While still definitely "flashy," I never really felt like he was taking over in Mr. Big, DLR, or Winery Dogs. I'm not saying others can't feel that way, or that you can't feel like his style just doesn't suit you. Just saying, it never really stood at to me as a problem. And if he were to be in this project, I'm not sure his flashy, sometimes over the top style is out of place in a genre where bands do things like having three bassists and a "lead bass" approach. Heck, look at JM's approach in the Majesty/WDADU days.
That said, it doesn't seem like he is involved in this, which is fine. I know for me, I would prefer him to NOT be involved. But that isn't necessarily because of his playing. Hopefully, Mike has put together a lineup and will help guide the writing of the songs such that the players compliment each other and nobody's particular playing style detracts. For me, my reasoning is simply because he has recently worked on two projects with Billy, and adding Billy to yet another project would just feel to me a bit incestuous and like he cannot break out of the usual cast of characters. But we'll see. I'm optimistic, and I hope the music lives up to the hype.
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I actually like Billy in the projects that he's been in. I love Mr Big, feel he's fine in TWD etc. He's just a very narrow player, he doesn't veer off far from his regular play.
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As a bassist, I dislike him because he overplays everything. He can never just play the role of a bassist, he always has to be flashy. That's ok from time to time, and John Myung is a good example of that working.
Billy is a guitarist who plays a bass, nothing more.
And yeah, his tone is horrible.
I'm a bassist, and agree 100% with what you said, specially the bolded part.
Now, it isn't fair to criticize Billy without giving an example of someone who, imo, does all these things right. So, who is a prog/rock/metal bassist who has crazy good technique, knows when to stand out and when to lay back, who also has AMAZING tone, is very versatile and would fit this band so much better? Bryan Beller :metal
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Colin Edwin has the best bass tone/sound that I've ever heard. I read an interview with Joey Vera a year ago where he says the same thing. I take that as high praise.
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Colin Edwin has the best bass tone/sound that I've ever heard. I read an interview with Joey Vera a year ago where he says the same thing. I take that as high praise.
Oh yea, his tone is great.
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As a bassist, I dislike him because he overplays everything. He can never just play the role of a bassist, he always has to be flashy. That's ok from time to time, and John Myung is a good example of that working.
Billy is a guitarist who plays a bass, nothing more.
And yeah, his tone is horrible.
I'm a bassist, and agree 100% with what you said, specially the bolded part.
Now, it isn't fair to criticize Billy without giving an example of someone who, imo, does all these things right. So, who is a prog/rock/metal bassist who has crazy good technique, knows when to stand out and when to lay back, who also has AMAZING tone, is very versatile and would fit this band so much better? Bryan Beller :metal
Bryan is awesome too. Here´s an example of his chops:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8KBvUCV6Co&list=PLJltKoeJOXNPeepHQn0Sj4bkfMh707PqN
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I've never cared for Sheehan's rock style of playing at all, and as others have said he's pretty rigid in that regard; a guitarist playing a bass. I dug the hell out of him in Niacin, though, and that suggests to me he could play quite well in a prog group, but only if he commits to not trying to be EVH for a while. I agree with others that I'd really prefer for him to not be the bass player in this gig, but I'm certainly interested in hearing him do something different for a change. Dude's too talented to keep playing the same boring stuff all the time.
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The problem with having Derek Sherinian and Billy Sheehan in a project together is that they both play their instruments as if they are guitars. It was ok with PSMS because it seemed like a part of the project was giving all the players their own spotlight. If this project is going to have original music, I'd rather have a bass player who can lock in better with Portnoy. Otherwise it risks going off the rails. LTE was great partly because Tony Levin could hold it down while everyone else took off. I'm sure his background as a session player helped in that area.
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I'd rather have a bass player who can lock in better with Portnoy.
I might be wrong, but as a bassist and drummer myself, I don't think Mike's approach has ever been "I should keep grooving with (insert bass player's name here) so everything sounds tight". I think he's much more concerned on the musical relationship he has with the guitarists or the other lead instrumentists he plays with. That's why most of the time his drum lines don't acknowledge what the bass part is doing, but instead he tends to overplay in an effort to make his drum parts stick out.
I find MP has never had, in my opinion, a bass/drums connection with any bassist he's played with, as good as, let's say, Peart/Lee.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
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In my humble opinion, Billy and MP have something very big in common which is probably why they work so well together. They both excel at the styles they play and their very own unique sound, but they're not versatile musicians in any sense of the word in a way that, for example, Virgil Donati is. Also, they both know what their respective fans expect from them and they know how to deliver them that, which is a skill hardly mastered by lots of musicians.
Billy sounds great in his Billy stuff, but I can't imagine him going out of his comfort zone; and I think that such same thing applies with MP.
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I just don't want to see them in 2 bands. I want diversity in the sound of each band.
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I just don't want to see them in 2 bands. I want diversity in the sound of each band.
MP is not the poster boy for diversity lol
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I just don't want to see them in 2 bands. I want diversity in the sound of each band.
MP is not the poster boy for diversity lol
Well, Mike is in 3 bands with Neal Morse, so...
-Marc.
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:lol
Leave Neil out of it! Well, now you know why I said that, it's the other players.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
That's why Mangini's style is often seen as "simple", because he's trying to lock in with the rest of the band, as opposed to trying to come up with more in your face ideas that will make the drum parts stand out.
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I've never seen Mangini's style described as simple. one of the major criticisms of him is that his playing isn't simple enough.
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Pretty sure if we turn the MP thread into an MM discussion, MP will explode in rage.
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50$ says this won't be the only or last time MP tours with DT songs within the next 5 years.
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50$ says this won't be the only or last time MP tours with DT songs within the next 5 years.
I don't think anyone would take you up on that bet. I'm happy that he's revisiting them as long as the songs are done well. In fact, I haven't seen DT since they toured for SC, but I'm thinking about checking this out live if the material is good. I had to give away a ticket to see him with NMB a couple of months ago due to work obligations. I don't plan on missing him play live the next time I get the chance.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
That's why Mangini's style is often seen as "simple", because he's trying to lock in with the rest of the band, as opposed to trying to come up with more in your face ideas that will make the drum parts stand out.
It is not humanly possible for me to disagree with this statement any more than I already do. I get it, opinions, but when Mike left, DT went from a "first day, all albums, singles, live shit and whatever" buy, to "yeah, if I hear something I like, maybe I'll get it" buy. And some of it was the intangible stuff, but a large part of it is that, while he's a technical monster, Mangini always seems so... jarring to me. I wrote something like this back when ADTOE came out, and I think it's still applicable: Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
That's why Mangini's style is often seen as "simple", because he's trying to lock in with the rest of the band, as opposed to trying to come up with more in your face ideas that will make the drum parts stand out.
It is not humanly possible for me to disagree with this statement any more than I already do. I get it, opinions, but when Mike left, DT went from a "first day, all albums, singles, live shit and whatever" buy, to "yeah, if I hear something I like, maybe I'll get it" buy. And some of it was the intangible stuff, but a large part of it is that, while he's a technical monster, Mangini always seems so... jarring to me. I wrote something like this back when ADTOE came out, and I think it's still applicable: Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.
100000% agreed!!!!
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
That's why Mangini's style is often seen as "simple", because he's trying to lock in with the rest of the band, as opposed to trying to come up with more in your face ideas that will make the drum parts stand out.
It is not humanly possible for me to disagree with this statement any more than I already do. I get it, opinions, but when Mike left, DT went from a "first day, all albums, singles, live shit and whatever" buy, to "yeah, if I hear something I like, maybe I'll get it" buy. And some of it was the intangible stuff, but a large part of it is that, while he's a technical monster, Mangini always seems so... jarring to me. I wrote something like this back when ADTOE came out, and I think it's still applicable: Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.
What? If anything, it's MP who sounds complicated when you hear him but is actually easy to play while Mangini sounds like he's playing something basic (like in Enigma Machine) but is actually difficult.
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Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.
I have been trying to figure out why I enjoy MP's drumming more than MM's. I think you nailed it for me. This is a more precise description than "MP has better groove than MM". Thanks, man.
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I think both are true. True, you don't hear it directly, i.e. especially the snare and bass drum usually just follow the instruments, but when you listen and hear the complicated stuff he plays on say the cymbals, a lot of us think "impressive, but not really adding much".
Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.
I have been trying to figure out why I enjoy MP's drumming more than MM's. I think you nailed it for me. This is a more precise description than "MP has better groove than MM". Thanks, man.
You should check out Gavin Harrison's explanation of his beat in "Sound of Muzak". It's exactly that, he plays a twisted beat, but it oddly sounds straight.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
That's why Mangini's style is often seen as "simple", because he's trying to lock in with the rest of the band, as opposed to trying to come up with more in your face ideas that will make the drum parts stand out.
It is not humanly possible for me to disagree with this statement any more than I already do. I get it, opinions, but when Mike left, DT went from a "first day, all albums, singles, live shit and whatever" buy, to "yeah, if I hear something I like, maybe I'll get it" buy. And some of it was the intangible stuff, but a large part of it is that, while he's a technical monster, Mangini always seems so... jarring to me. I wrote something like this back when ADTOE came out, and I think it's still applicable: Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.
What? If anything, it's MP who sounds complicated when you hear him but is actually easy to play while Mangini sounds like he's playing something basic (like in Enigma Machine) but is actually difficult.
I'm not at all referring to the actual difficulty of playing. I'm not a drummer, so to me, what both of them play is "actually difficult", and besides, I find in my own playing (guitar), what I find "easy" and what another player finds "easy" are often different. I'm just referring to the impression I get from listening.
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Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.
Dude. Absolutely this. You finally made clear to me why I like MPs drumming more than MMs. I could never explain it.
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To me that's the same as saying that MP has more groove and MM is more technical (robotic) in their playing.
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I love listening to both drummers.
But my personal drumming style was definitely based, in part, on MP. And when I listen to MP, no matter what piece he is playing, I am hearing something that I understand and could, with practice, eventually play a reasonable facsimile thereof.
A lot of MM's stuff I can hear, but what he does and what I do are two different things. He is beyond me in every way. Most of his drumming with DT I could never, ever come close to doing.
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Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.
Dude. Absolutely this. You finally made clear to me why I like MPs drumming more than MMs. I could never explain it.
I'm curious what these drum parts are that MM make it sound more difficult than it really is. Specifics, anyone?
The only thing I can think of are the polyrhythms where he's complementing two instruments at the same time. In which case, are we saying we don't want this new element in drumming in DT? That's going backwards and not being progressive at all.
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A lot of his single-stroke work on cymbals comes to mind. That's not really that playable for most drummers.
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Mike P plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 4/4, and Mike M plays in 9/8 and it sounds like 237/96.
I'm curious what these drum parts are that MM make it sound more difficult than it really is. Specifics, anyone?
I must say that I'm curious about that too. I'm no drummer, but nothing he has done with DT strikes me as being more complex/hard for the sake of it than anything Portnoy has done. Actually, like erwinrafael wrote earlier, I personally feel like Mangini generally sounds more restrained than Portnoy (not that there's anything wrong with with MP's drumming). I mean, after reading and seeing interviews, I know that Mangini do like his 236 over 96 polyrhytm ( :lol), but I really don't feel it when I listen to the band's music.
Anyway, the thing I retain from this is that it's actually interesting (and sometimes perplexing) to see how different people react so differently to the same thing.
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Here's a poor analogy that I thought up of earlier today when thinking about this topic - Portnoy is more of the Arts, while Mangini is more of the Sciences. What I mean by that is that MP's drumming is done for show, it's flashier and more entertaining, there for audio and visual amusement and fun, creating a sound that is engaging and exciting to everyone. MM's drumming is methodical, scientific and well-thought out, very formulaic and strategic, laid out in patterns and mathematically pieced together to sound consistent with the rest of the band's rhythms.
Both have their pros and cons, but I think what we should take away from this whole "debate" is that, those of us who were tired of MP's drumming were more likely to find MM more appealing, whereas those of us who find MM's drumming to be out of reach for understanding were probably fans of MP's more showy and bombastic style of drumming. This assumption is probably way off base, but I figured I'd put it out there to see if anyone agrees.
As a drummer of over 20 years, I've grown to appreciate very complex and technical drummers, people like Thomas Lang and Gavin Harrison, but Mike Mangini takes the technicalities to new levels, and his explanations only solidify that feeling that he's very scientific in his drum-part-building, whereas Portnoy is a "bag of tricks and tools" kind of drummer, who will do what the song needs but won't be afraid to color around the lines, so to speak, and I think that's what a lot of fans like about his drumming.
-Marc.
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Here's a poor analogy that I thought up of earlier today when thinking about this topic - Portnoy is more of the Arts, while Mangini is more of the Sciences. What I mean by that is that MP's drumming is done for show, it's flashier and more entertaining, there for audio and visual amusement and fun, creating a sound that is engaging and exciting to everyone. MM's drumming is methodical, scientific and well-thought out, very formulaic and strategic, laid out in patterns and mathematically pieced together to sound consistent with the rest of the band's rhythms.
Both have their pros and cons, but I think what we should take away from this whole "debate" is that, those of us who were tired of MP's drumming were more likely to find MM more appealing, whereas those of us who find MM's drumming to be out of reach for understanding were probably fans of MP's more showy and bombastic style of drumming. This assumption is probably way off base, but I figured I'd put it out there to see if anyone agrees.
As a drummer of over 20 years, I've grown to appreciate very complex and technical drummers, people like Thomas Lang and Gavin Harrison, but Mike Mangini takes the technicalities to new levels, and his explanations only solidify that feeling that he's very scientific in his drum-part-building, whereas Portnoy is a "bag of tricks and tools" kind of drummer, who will do what the song needs but won't be afraid to color around the lines, so to speak, and I think that's what a lot of fans like about his drumming.
-Marc.
I'm not a drummer, so what I say next is at risk of making myself look like an ass.
MM is Bill Bruford, and MP is Alan White. When I listen to older Yes, I get the feeling that BB is way more technical than AW, but AW feels more accessable and easier to listen to. Is this a good example, or am I way off base?
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How about getting this guy on bass? I was blown away when I saw this, and also maybe my favorite bass tone yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug5wHQGJxOQ
Also, to tie it in to the other discussion, that's an example of extremely complicated playing with lots of groove. So they're not exclusive.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
Not to be anal about this, but there are PLENTY of examples with MP 'locking in' with the other instruments:
1. Constant Motion: https://youtu.be/EjtfpfW-Ogk?t=245 This is perhaps the best example, not just of MP locking in, but of why I think his drumming trumps anyone else's on Earth. There are very few drummers I've heard who can come up with such interesting, creative parts.
2. The Great Debate: https://youtu.be/4z6vpiXQJNA?t=127 Locked in with guitars, bass.
3. The Dance of Eternity: https://youtu.be/PfydR1CQ76k?t=223 Locked in with full band.
4. Stream of Consciousness: https://youtu.be/c52g8k7hFcI?t=184
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Here's a poor analogy that I thought up of earlier today when thinking about this topic - Portnoy is more of the Arts, while Mangini is more of the Sciences. What I mean by that is that MP's drumming is done for show, it's flashier and more entertaining, there for audio and visual amusement and fun, creating a sound that is engaging and exciting to everyone. MM's drumming is methodical, scientific and well-thought out, very formulaic and strategic, laid out in patterns and mathematically pieced together to sound consistent with the rest of the band's rhythms.
Both have their pros and cons, but I think what we should take away from this whole "debate" is that, those of us who were tired of MP's drumming were more likely to find MM more appealing, whereas those of us who find MM's drumming to be out of reach for understanding were probably fans of MP's more showy and bombastic style of drumming. This assumption is probably way off base, but I figured I'd put it out there to see if anyone agrees.
As a drummer of over 20 years, I've grown to appreciate very complex and technical drummers, people like Thomas Lang and Gavin Harrison, but Mike Mangini takes the technicalities to new levels, and his explanations only solidify that feeling that he's very scientific in his drum-part-building, whereas Portnoy is a "bag of tricks and tools" kind of drummer, who will do what the song needs but won't be afraid to color around the lines, so to speak, and I think that's what a lot of fans like about his drumming.
-Marc.
I'm not a drummer, so what I say next is at risk of making myself look like an ass.
MM is Bill Bruford, and MP is Alan White. When I listen to older Yes, I get the feeling that BB is way more technical than AW, but AW feels more accessable and easier to listen to. Is this a good example, or am I way off base?
Cant agree with that but I get how you could feel that way. ;)
I am also not a drummer, so I also might risk making an ass of myself: I always found Bill to be a better groover than Alan. Yes, Bill's playing is more complex and Alan's is more intuitive. But Bill always played very accessible to me, too. It never sounded too complex at first listen. He just played rock music as a jazz drummer would, not unlike Phil Collins in the 70s (of course Phil was influenced by Bill, not the other way round).
Bill's jazzy style fitted perfectly with Yes' music imo. Although Alan also did a really good job on Tales, Relayer, GFTO, Tormato (that's right) and Drama, plus the according live albums - Yes were a POWERHOUSE live in the 70s!
After that he basically became a drum machine.
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What it comes down to me :
i. I like Mangini much more as a person but I liked Portnoy's drumming more.
ii. Portnoy's drumming was more musical to my ears & Mangini's playing is more mathematical.
Also Mangini's kit is definitely more efficient and - for the most part - not just big for the sake of it. Portnoy's double kit was just silly.
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I agree to with there Kotow. MP brought an element of life to the band.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
Not to be anal about this, but there are PLENTY of examples with MP 'locking in' with the other instruments:
1. Constant Motion: https://youtu.be/EjtfpfW-Ogk?t=245 This is perhaps the best example, not just of MP locking in, but of why I think his drumming trumps anyone else's on Earth. There are very few drummers I've heard who can come up with such interesting, creative parts.
2. The Great Debate: https://youtu.be/4z6vpiXQJNA?t=127 Locked in with guitars, bass.
3. The Dance of Eternity: https://youtu.be/PfydR1CQ76k?t=223 Locked in with full band.
4. Stream of Consciousness: https://youtu.be/c52g8k7hFcI?t=184
To me, that section in Constant Motion is the single greatest drum part ever written. The big thing about these parts is that while MP is locked in with the rest of the band, the parts still have their own identity. That to me is the biggest difference between Portnoy and Mangini. MM tries to blend with the other instruments while MP plays to the song but allows his playing to stand out.
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I'm in a strange place in DT land as of now :
Before SC, I absolutely loved MP's drumming. But as with all drummers with a bag of tricks, I've grown bored of his drumming. Plus, his personality even before the split had already begun to rub me the wrong way. Neddless to say, what's happened since then has defintely sealed the case for me.
I like MM's personality more than his drumming, because I feel MM is a drummers' drummer. When I listen to him play, I don't feel the same things as when I listened to MP play. And, unfortunately, his personality hasn't made me love his drumming more.
Back to the OP : I would like to see Jorn Lande as a singer for MP's new band.
B.Lee
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How about getting this guy on bass? I was blown away when I saw this, and also maybe my favorite bass tone yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug5wHQGJxOQ
Virgil would have been bored to death in DT.
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How about getting this guy on bass? I was blown away when I saw this, and also maybe my favorite bass tone yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug5wHQGJxOQ
Virgil would have been bored to death in DT.
I think that came through on that audition documentary where he tried to re-write parts of TDOE to make it more interesting for him.
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1. Constant Motion: https://youtu.be/EjtfpfW-Ogk?t=245 This is perhaps the best example, not just of MP locking in, but of why I think his drumming trumps anyone else's on Earth. There are very few drummers I've heard who can come up with such interesting, creative parts.
To me, that section in Constant Motion is the single greatest drum part ever written.
That section is pretty bad ass, and just listening to on its own makes it even more annoying that it is smack dab in the middle of what is otherwise a very mediocre song. That instrumental section deserved a much better song written around it.
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That instrumental section also deserved a better keyboard solo.
But yeah, that drumming is both delightful to watch, and listen to.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
Not to be anal about this, but there are PLENTY of examples with MP 'locking in' with the other instruments:
1. Constant Motion: https://youtu.be/EjtfpfW-Ogk?t=245 This is perhaps the best example, not just of MP locking in, but of why I think his drumming trumps anyone else's on Earth. There are very few drummers I've heard who can come up with such interesting, creative parts.
2. The Great Debate: https://youtu.be/4z6vpiXQJNA?t=127 Locked in with guitars, bass.
3. The Dance of Eternity: https://youtu.be/PfydR1CQ76k?t=223 Locked in with full band.
4. Stream of Consciousness: https://youtu.be/c52g8k7hFcI?t=184
To me, that section in Constant Motion is the single greatest drum part ever written. The big thing about these parts is that while MP is locked in with the rest of the band, the parts still have their own identity. That to me is the biggest difference between Portnoy and Mangini. MM tries to blend with the other instruments while MP plays to the song but allows his playing to stand out.
THAT drum part was the catalyst for me becoming interested in music as a whole. It was my inspiration for picking up the drumsticks and diving down the rabbit hole of prog and heavy metal. Literally a life-changing musical moment.
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I've always thought that MP's playing had a certain lyrical quality to it. There's definitely no drummer whose parts make me feel like air drumming along as frequently as Mike's.
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Yes. Has Mangini ever created any drum fill as air drum worthy as the one going into the TDEN first
verse?
MAYBE his mini solo in Enigma Machine???
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Meanwhile at the MP cave he wrote:
Thank you MOOG...you seem to "get it"
For those of you that STILL don't and for the record: the person that posted that video was NOT supposed to have (and was not an "official" source) and was absolutely reprimanded for his irresponsible actions in doing so...he deleted the post and has apologized profusely for his mistake
So it was NOT one of "us" that leaked/posted that...
Again, (and why I have to explain or justify myself on MY OWN website/Forum is ludicrous), the ONLY "official" information that has/will be posted so far is what I posted on my Social Media (as well as the matching "Del Fuvio" post by somebody else)
Several people here (again, you know who you are...don't make me name names) RAN and SPREAD the "leak" as if it was "official information" which it was NOT....
Like it or not, these are my wishes/rules....
This is MY Forum and this is MY band!
Respect it or else...
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FFS.
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So I guess I officially don't know that Bumblefoot is involved? Okay. :lol
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:corn :corn :corn
I hope he reacts like this at least every other day until they release an album (or he loses his shit all together and rage quits)
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Meanwhile at the MP cave he wrote:
Thank you MOOG...you seem to "get it"
For those of you that STILL don't and for the record: the person that posted that video was NOT supposed to have (and was not an "official" source) and was absolutely reprimanded for his irresponsible actions in doing so...he deleted the post and has apologized profusely for his mistake
So it was NOT one of "us" that leaked/posted that...
Again, (and why I have to explain or justify myself on MY OWN website/Forum is ludicrous), the ONLY "official" information that has/will be posted so far is what I posted on my Social Media (as well as the matching "Del Fuvio" post by somebody else)
Several people here (again, you know who you are...don't make me name names) RAN and SPREAD the "leak" as if it was "official information" which it was NOT....
Like it or not, these are my wishes/rules....
This is MY Forum and this is MY band!
Respect it or else...
This is getting so ridiculous. He behaves like a kid. This is my band! This is my forum! It's my ice cream and you can't have any!
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Yes. Has Mangini ever created any drum fill as air drum worthy as the one going into the TDEN first
verse?
MAYBE his mini solo in Enigma Machine???
Definitely a couple of the big fills in Illumination Theory are very air drummable!
-
Meanwhile at the MP cave he wrote:
Several people here (again, you know who you are...don't make me name names) RAN and SPREAD the "leak" as if it was "official information" which it was NOT....
So someone makes a mistake but fans should realize "Hey, this was clearly a video made by someone who was just working in the studio, we should not discuss it and forget about it"?
Really, was it so hard to tell essentially that, but changing the angle to "I know someone posted a video that shouldn't have been posted, please, those of you who got wind of it don't spoil the surprise to anyone else who wasn't even aware of such video"? nobody broke into the studio. Nobody stalked it out at night to see who was coming and going. Nobody hacked a cellphone. Someone in the studio made a mistake in filming the rehearsals, so the cat was out of the bag. I don't see anything wrong and difficult in coming up with "I know an unofficial video was leaked, please, those of you who know don't spoil the surprise for anyone else and refrain to discuss is further, I know it's not your fault"?
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This is getting so ridiculous. He behaves like a kid. This is my band! This is my forum! It's my ice cream and you can't have any!
Yes but it's endlessly amusing :) :corn :corn
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He really is the gift that keeps on giving. :lol :lol :lol
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Yes. Has Mangini ever created any drum fill as air drum worthy as the one going into the TDEN first
verse?
MAYBE his mini solo in Enigma Machine???
Definitely a couple of the big fills in Illumination Theory are very air drummable!
The drum fill that leads into Live, Die, Kill is probably one of my favorite drum moment in the band's discography. And I might be alone in this, but I find that most of the self-titled album gives me the urge to air drum.
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All this talk of MP vs MM made me actually miss MP being in DT.
But then this post comes along and it makes me so glad he's not involved anymore.
-
Yes. Has Mangini ever created any drum fill as air drum worthy as the one going into the TDEN first
verse?
MAYBE his mini solo in Enigma Machine???
Definitely a couple of the big fills in Illumination Theory are very air drummable!
The drum fill that leads into Live, Die, Kill is probably one of my favorite drum moment in the band's discography. And I might be alone in this, but I find that most of the self-titled album gives me the urge to air drum.
Not with that terrible snare sound it doesn't.
I think Enemy Inside has some of the best MM moments in DT. That cymbal pattern in the main riff is awesome.
-
Yes. Has Mangini ever created any drum fill as air drum worthy as the one going into the TDEN first
verse?
MAYBE his mini solo in Enigma Machine???
Definitely a couple of the big fills in Illumination Theory are very air drummable!
The drum fill that leads into Live, Die, Kill is probably one of my favorite drum moment in the band's discography. And I might be alone in this, but I find that most of the self-titled album gives me the urge to air drum.
Many of his parts in The Astonishing are air-drummable as long as you don't mind what his other limbs are doing. :lol
Mangini is not really an air-drumming machine. His genius is best appreciated when you listen to the song as a whole and hear how his drums are enriching what the other members are doing (like his bass giving the oomph to James' "rap" in The Path That Divides). It's really quite different from MP's style, although MP does veer into that "orchestrate-to-complement-the-other-instruments" territory in In the Presence of Enemies Part 1.
-
Meanwhile at the MP cave he wrote:
Thank you MOOG...you seem to "get it"
For those of you that STILL don't and for the record: the person that posted that video was NOT supposed to have (and was not an "official" source) and was absolutely reprimanded for his irresponsible actions in doing so...he deleted the post and has apologized profusely for his mistake
So it was NOT one of "us" that leaked/posted that...
Again, (and why I have to explain or justify myself on MY OWN website/Forum is ludicrous), the ONLY "official" information that has/will be posted so far is what I posted on my Social Media (as well as the matching "Del Fuvio" post by somebody else)
Several people here (again, you know who you are...don't make me name names) RAN and SPREAD the "leak" as if it was "official information" which it was NOT....
Like it or not, these are my wishes/rules....
This is MY Forum and this is MY band!
Respect it or else...
He's unleashing all the social media goodies he hadn't unleashed in the past year and a half or so lol
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Whatever happened to his paid tweet service ?
Where you pay like $3 a month to get exclusive tweets or videos ?
Did that last more than 1 month ? :lol
-
Meanwhile at the MP cave he wrote:
Thank you MOOG...you seem to "get it"
For those of you that STILL don't and for the record: the person that posted that video was NOT supposed to have (and was not an "official" source) and was absolutely reprimanded for his irresponsible actions in doing so...he deleted the post and has apologized profusely for his mistake
So it was NOT one of "us" that leaked/posted that...
He's referring to Derek's keyboard tech, who originally posted the Bumblefoot video on Instagram. The way Mike talks about him makes it sound like he leaked the album. :\
Again, (and why I have to explain or justify myself on MY OWN website/Forum is ludicrous), the ONLY "official" information that has/will be posted so far is what I posted on my Social Media (as well as the matching "Del Fuvio" post by somebody else)
...is he trying to hide the fact that Derek is involved? :facepalm:
I don't understand why a person would be this up in arms about hiding who's involved with this project. People mentioned that maybe the final lineup hasn't been decided, well then maybe wait till you have a finalized lineup before announcing said project?
When/if Bumblefoot is confirmed, this whole drama is gonna look even more stupid.
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He's referring to Derek's keyboard tech, who originally posted the Bumblefoot video on Instagram. The way Mike talks about him makes it sound like he leaked the album. :\
The way Mike talks it makes it sound like he leaked the Pentagon Papers.
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The way Mike talks about it he makes it sound as if this shit was important :lol
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The way Mike talks about it he makes it sound as if this shit was important :lol
It is deadly important to him...
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The way Mike talks about it he makes it sound as if this shit was important :lol
It is deadly important to him...
Well of course it is, but what Rumby is hinting at is that in the grand scheme of things, it is not important at all, it's just music. I would have liked MP to handle the situation just as DT did when someone saw MM going out of the studio and we all knew it was him the new drummer. Tell nothing. But, what could I expect from MP?
B.Lee
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Meanwhile at the MP cave he wrote:
Thank you MOOG...you seem to "get it"
For those of you that STILL don't and for the record: the person that posted that video was NOT supposed to have (and was not an "official" source) and was absolutely reprimanded for his irresponsible actions in doing so...he deleted the post and has apologized profusely for his mistake
So it was NOT one of "us" that leaked/posted that...
Again, (and why I have to explain or justify myself on MY OWN website/Forum is ludicrous), the ONLY "official" information that has/will be posted so far is what I posted on my Social Media (as well as the matching "Del Fuvio" post by somebody else)
Several people here (again, you know who you are...don't make me name names) RAN and SPREAD the "leak" as if it was "official information" which it was NOT....
Like it or not, these are my wishes/rules....
This is MY Forum and this is MY band!
Respect it or else...
WTF?!?!? Calm down, my man, or you will have a heart attack! And SHOUTING won't make you heard more easily, quite the contrary.
Well, I might have checked what that band would be. Now, I'm sorry, I won't. I'm just so tired of all his outbursts.
B.Lee
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Hey Mike - what's your set up on this album ? :)
@MikePortnoy 2m
Do *NOT* make me block you. I have *NOT* confirmed *I* am the drummer!!
And neither have *THEY*. Whoever *THEY* may or may *NOT* be!!!!
Yes I'm kidding :P
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:rollin
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It's amazing Mike has not learned yet that there's no way anyone whines on social media and comes out looking good.
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I think it's partially because he surrounds himself with a bubble he has very tight control over. The moment he is forced to deal with anything outside of that, especially something as wild and uncontrollable (and often belligerent) as the internet, he virtually implodes.
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The way Mike talks about it he makes it sound as if this shit was important :lol
It is deadly important to him...
Well of course it is, but what Rumby is hinting at is that in the grand scheme of things, it is not important at all, it's just music. I would have liked MP to handle the situation just as DT did when someone saw MM going out of the studio and we all knew it was him the new drummer. Tell nothing. But, what could I expect from MP?
B.Lee
I don't remember that. What did MP do regarding MM?
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Only thing I can think of is that MM confided to MP that he was the new drummer - MP told Eddie Trunk and Eddie Trunk revealed it before DT did.
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The drum fill that leads into Live, Die, Kill is probably one of my favorite drum moment in the band's discography. And I might be alone in this, but I find that most of the self-titled album gives me the urge to air drum.
I'm with you on this one! I love Mike's drumming in DT12 and definitely air drum to a lot of his drum lines.
Meanwhile at the MP cave he wrote:
Thank you MOOG...you seem to "get it"
For those of you that STILL don't and for the record: the person that posted that video was NOT supposed to have (and was not an "official" source) and was absolutely reprimanded for his irresponsible actions in doing so...he deleted the post and has apologized profusely for his mistake
So it was NOT one of "us" that leaked/posted that...
Again, (and why I have to explain or justify myself on MY OWN website/Forum is ludicrous), the ONLY "official" information that has/will be posted so far is what I posted on my Social Media (as well as the matching "Del Fuvio" post by somebody else)
Several people here (again, you know who you are...don't make me name names) RAN and SPREAD the "leak" as if it was "official information" which it was NOT....
Like it or not, these are my wishes/rules....
This is MY Forum and this is MY band!
Respect it or else...
After this, I'm done (should say DONE) following MP in social media and completely lost interest in whatever comes out from this band.
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I would say that would be as much of an overreaction as MP's was.
If it's good music, I will listen to it, if not then not. Simple as that. Given the lineup I'm not on the edge of my seat, but it's a new thing, and it would be silly to not at least give it a shot.
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I wonder how far a musician would have to go as a person to make it impact how I view their music.
I mean, I still love Mel Gibson movies, and my favorite director once said he really empathized with Hitler, so I guess they'd have to go REALLY far to impact me.
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Ted Nugent is probably on that short list, at least for me. Luckily he never produced anything of particular interest to me anyway.
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He just never should have said anything about recording and then just announced the band when material was ready and he wanted to announce stuff. This was bound to happen. Doesn't he know that he's dealing with fans that cleared an out of focus picture of a lyric in the DT12 session or transcribed a piano piece from a studio video. This was inevitable :lol
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The thread about this project on his forum is gone.
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SEE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE?!!
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:lol
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:tdwn
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I would say that would be as much of an overreaction as MP's was.
If it's good music, I will listen to it, if not then not. Simple as that. Given the lineup I'm not on the edge of my seat, but it's a new thing, and it would be silly to not at least give it a shot.
Same here. I haven't been a fan of Portnoy the person for probably 15 years now, yet in that time span, I've bought probably close to 20 studio albums he's been on. Like you said, good music is good music.
The thread about this project on his forum is gone.
Wait, really? So, you can't talk about his old prog metal band (Dream Theater) on there, and now you can't talk about his new one (Stumblebum Meets Bumblefoot) either? :rollin :rollin :rollin
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You're not allowed to talk about DT on there? Is it just DT's current activity or DT period?
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HIS forum! HIS band! HIS decision!
Someone should go open a new thread and see what happens.
"Since the last topic got deleted, I figured I would make a new one. Here was can discuss MP's new progressive metal band which may or may not include Derek Sherinian, Bumblefoot, and an unauthorized keyboard tech"
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Eh, trolling another forum for the hell of it is so 2004. :P :lol
Besides, a Mike Mangini appreciation thread is a much better idea. :biggrin:
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I would say that would be as much of an overreaction as MP's was.
If it's good music, I will listen to it, if not then not. Simple as that. Given the lineup I'm not on the edge of my seat, but it's a new thing, and it would be silly to not at least give it a shot.
Same here. I haven't been a fan of Portnoy the person for probably 15 years now, yet in that time span, I've bought probably close to 20 studio albums he's been on. Like you said, good music is good music.
Oh, absolutely. If I buy another album with MP on it, it'll be because I like the other musicians and their music (NMB, TA, FC), not because of his involvement. I'll, of course, listen to this new band once the full lineup is announced and a single or something is released, but, untill then, I've lost all the interest I had. I think he's a great drummer, but makes TERRIBLE decisions when it comes to the relationship with his fans, and, sadly, he has lost me as one.
I really doubt he cares and me not following him anymore doesn't mean anything to his career, but I can't stand his way of managing these things and I, a marketing student in my last year of career, know a thing or two about the importance of building good relationships with your customers and having a healthy public image, none of which he seems to have at the moment.
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I tend to think this forum is overly critical of MP, but he is definitely out of line on this one.
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What band? If there's no thread about it, I'm sure there's no new progressive metal project with MP...
-Marc.
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:corn :corn :corn
I hope he reacts like this at least every other day until they release an album (or he loses his shit all together and rage quits)
...and then sues the band when they won't let him back in after they've found a new drummer. :lol
Seriously though, how the hell can anybody work with this guy?
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I think for spite someone should go start a side project with all the musicians that he denied might be involved.
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Just Bumblefoot?
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Seriously though, how the hell can anybody work with this guy?
I've said for a while that working with Neal Morse is the one thing that seems to calm him down and make him act like a rational person. Put him in other projects and look out. Put him in control and here lies the result. And it's a good reminder of the way he acted the last few years in Dream Theater. His attitude and persona as the voice of the band took a lot of the fun of being a fan, at least for me. Sure, maybe the guys don't do some of the little things he used to, but when they come with all of this nonsense, I'll take the alternative.
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Seriously though, how the hell can anybody work with this guy?
I've said for a while that working with Neal Morse is the one thing that seems to calm him down and make him act like a rational person. Put him in other projects and look out. Put him in control and here lies the result. And it's a good reminder of the way he acted the last few years in Dream Theater. His attitude and persona as the voice of the band took a lot of the fun of being a fan, at least for me. Sure, maybe the guys don't do some of the little things he used to, but when they come with all of this nonsense, I'll take the alternative.
This. I'm surprised he didn't fire the keyboard tech like he fired Petrucci's guitar tech without checking with him. Perhaps he doesn't have that kind of power anymore so he has to take it out on random internet people on *HIS*!!!! $#32* forum.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/rumor-mike-portnoy-recruits-bumblefoot-derek-sherinian-for-new-progressive-metal-supergroup/
Think MP will shut down Blabbermouth?
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/rumor-mike-portnoy-recruits-bumblefoot-derek-sherinian-for-new-progressive-metal-supergroup/
Think MP will shut down Blabbermouth?
He's gonna be really mad at this :lol
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Think MP will shut down Blabbermouth?
I'm sure he would if he could. :lol
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Seriously though, how the hell can anybody work with this guy?
I've said for a while that working with Neal Morse is the one thing that seems to calm him down and make him act like a rational person. Put him in other projects and look out. Put him in control and here lies the result. And it's a good reminder of the way he acted the last few years in Dream Theater. His attitude and persona as the voice of the band took a lot of the fun of being a fan, at least for me. Sure, maybe the guys don't do some of the little things he used to, but when they come with all of this nonsense, I'll take the alternative.
This. I'm surprised he didn't fire the keyboard tech like he fired Petrucci's guitar tech without checking with him. Perhaps he doesn't have that kind of power anymore so he has to take it out on random internet people on *HIS*!!!! $#32* forum.
Wait.. he did what, when? Fired JPs guitar tech???
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Think MP will shut down Blabbermouth?
I'm sure he would if he could. :lol
I wonder which came first this Blabbermouth piece or his deleting of the thread?
He probably deleted the thread as an angry reaction to seeing the Blabbermouth post. Sad.
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In tribute to Blabbermouth and Ron Thal , MP is calling his new band Bumblemouth. Rather fitting .
Rumoured album cover for the self titled debut.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeqE6W0XEAAMpzd.jpg)
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/rumor-mike-portnoy-recruits-bumblefoot-derek-sherinian-for-new-progressive-metal-supergroup/
Think MP will shut down Blabbermouth?
He's gonna be really mad at this :lol
:corn :corn :corn
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From the comment section:
Ross Alexander Cameron
Together, they'll be an unstoppable force. No British hospital will make them queue now!
:lol
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I know I'm an old guy but sometimes I wish that it was like the old days, you didn't know when an album was coming out until basically it was out and you didn't have this constant interaction with the artists and we didn't know what pricks they were.
I really like the music that MP makes (contributes to), but I can't stand the man. And that affects my interest in his projects. When he came out and said TSOAD was up there with Tommy and The Wall I instantly was very critical of it. It's a really good album and I missed the chance of seeing them because of MP's arrogance, but I will catch them the next time around. And if he brings the Shattered Fortress to NYC as he wants (one more "once in a lifetime" chance) I will go see it, because the music is what is important.
Is it a wonder why JP hasn't in all likelihood spoken to the man in almost 7 years? Sorry to bash on MP, but he is such an easy target and he just doesn't get it and never will.
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The Shattered Fortress thing has been really interesting to me as well. First it's a "once in a lifetime" thing for the cruise. Then, it becomes a "few times in a lifetime" with several festival bill headline spots. Now it's a small tour.
More is better, right? Well, I don't know. I don't go on the cruises, and I don't fly to other cities to go see the prog festivals, so I personally don't care as much - I'm not spending any money to see this thing debuted "once in a lifetime" around every corner. But I do know a few people who spend quite a bit of money going to the prog cruises and traveling to these prog festivals, and I would be curious to hear if they aren't a little peeved by having the same event constantly sucking the air out of the room.
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The Shattered Fortress thing has been really interesting to me as well. First it's a "once in a lifetime" thing for the cruise. Then, it becomes a "few times in a lifetime" with several festival bill headline spots. Now it's a small tour.
More is better, right? Well, I don't know. I don't go on the cruises, and I don't fly to other cities to go see the prog festivals, so I personally don't care as much - I'm not spending any money to see this thing debuted "once in a lifetime" around every corner. But I do know a few people who spend quite a bit of money going to the prog cruises and traveling to these prog festivals, and I would be curious to hear if they aren't a little peeved by having the same event constantly sucking the air out of the room.
Also, there wouldn´t be ANY professional filming of this once in a livetime event. How much do you want to bet that MP will announce a Shattered Fortress DVD once this (so far) small tour gets going?
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I tend to think this forum is overly critical of MP, but he is definitely out of line on this one.
This.
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How much do you want to bet that MP will announce a Shattered Fortress DVD once this (so far) small tour gets going?
100%.
1 0 0 % .
Also : https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=48404.msg2213257#msg2213257
So we both know when we're right :biggrin: :hifive:
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Seriously though, how the hell can anybody work with this guy?
I've said for a while that working with Neal Morse is the one thing that seems to calm him down and make him act like a rational person. Put him in other projects and look out. Put him in control and here lies the result. And it's a good reminder of the way he acted the last few years in Dream Theater. His attitude and persona as the voice of the band took a lot of the fun of being a fan, at least for me. Sure, maybe the guys don't do some of the little things he used to, but when they come with all of this nonsense, I'll take the alternative.
This. I'm surprised he didn't fire the keyboard tech like he fired Petrucci's guitar tech without checking with him. Perhaps he doesn't have that kind of power anymore so he has to take it out on random internet people on *HIS*!!!! $#32* forum.
Wait.. he did what, when? Fired JPs guitar tech???
Yeah, don't think I've heard that story before... When did that happen?
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Hey Mike - what's your set up on this album ? :)
@MikePortnoy 2m
Do *NOT* make me block you. I have *NOT* confirmed *I* am the drummer!!
And neither have *THEY*. Whoever *THEY* may or may *NOT* be!!!!
Yes I'm kidding :P
:lol
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Seriously though, how the hell can anybody work with this guy?
I've said for a while that working with Neal Morse is the one thing that seems to calm him down and make him act like a rational person. Put him in other projects and look out. Put him in control and here lies the result. And it's a good reminder of the way he acted the last few years in Dream Theater. His attitude and persona as the voice of the band took a lot of the fun of being a fan, at least for me. Sure, maybe the guys don't do some of the little things he used to, but when they come with all of this nonsense, I'll take the alternative.
This. I'm surprised he didn't fire the keyboard tech like he fired Petrucci's guitar tech without checking with him. Perhaps he doesn't have that kind of power anymore so he has to take it out on random internet people on *HIS*!!!! $#32* forum.
Wait.. he did what, when? Fired JPs guitar tech???
Yeah, don't think I've heard that story before... When did that happen?
Don't remember. It's in the Lifting Shadows book and I don't have it handy.
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I still think some of you are overly harsh. He's such a "horrible person" because he handles social media different than you (say you) would had you been a celebrity? That's all it takes to be "horrible"?
And MIKE is the one that blows stuff out of proportion? At the very least, it's his career. Anyone here doing this for a living?
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I still think some of you are overly harsh. He's such a "horrible person" because he handles social media different than you (say you) would had you been a celebrity? That's all it takes to be "horrible"?
And MIKE is the one that blows stuff out of proportion? At the very least, it's his career. Anyone here doing this for a living?
I agree. People should create a thread "bash and insult MP, his media comments and whatever he does/says here". This thread and the Shattered Fortress one are mostly people talking about how ridiculous everything he posts or says on social media is. I think if it was a different DT member who did that the moderators would intervene. But since he left DT and he posts such stuff, it is ok. Some people maybe see him as a "traitor" and allow themselves to bash ANYTHING that he posts.
As much as I also think that he exaggerates sometimes, it is his band, his forum, his tweeter and he can do whatever he wants. If he doesn't want people speculating or posting stuff about the members of his new band, why can't people just accept it and move on?
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Because this is the internet and it's entertaining as hell. And also, when MP makes demands to the internet at large, there can really be only outcome, and it's entirely deserved at that point.
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He's such a "horrible person" because he handles social media different than you (say you) would had you been a celebrity? That's all it takes to be "horrible"?
Who said that? You put "horrible person" in quotes, as if people here were saying it, and no one has said anything like that at all. The worst thing that I see is one single person implying that he might be a "prick". No one here called him a horrible person.
The next time you want to criticise us for blowing things out of proportion, maybe don't do that yourself at the same time? :lol
Anyone here doing this for a living?
What has that got to do with anything?
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Stadler, just like you are criticizing some of us for what we are saying online, some of us are criticizing him for what he said online. I don't think anyone thinks he is a horrible person, he seems like a nice guy.
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Y'know, it's funny, because MP complains about internet fans all the time... but I've gotta say, some of my earliest memories of being a DT fan are reading MP interviews where he would totally eviscerate Lars Ulrich, at-the-time modern Rush, and Queensryche. So he should definitely understand what it's like to be a fan shooting the shit. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
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I still think some of you are overly harsh. He's such a "horrible person" because he handles social media different than you (say you) would had you been a celebrity? That's all it takes to be "horrible"?
And MIKE is the one that blows stuff out of proportion? At the very least, it's his career. Anyone here doing this for a living?
Look, Stadler, you're acting as if you knew MP personnally. There's no need to be up for him every single time somebody makes a negative comment. Plus, as Rumby said, it's only music we're talking about. Granted, some of the comments may seem harsh, but MP's trying to control everything is calling for that. Making music for a living may induce him to react like that, I don't know, but from a PR point of view, it's a catastrophe because I feel he's pushing some fans away from him. Given Bosk's words, apparently, he couldn't care less, but we'll see once the project is up.
B.Lee
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MP is well within his right to control the content posted in his own forum. But the way he handled this "leak" is really poor, putting much of the heat on forum posters when much of the fault is within his team.
He's not a horrible person. He just handled this brouhaha horribly.
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MP is well within his right to control the content posted in his own forum. But the way he handled this "leak" is really poor, putting much of the heat on forum posters when much of the fault is within his team.
He's not a horrible person. He just handled this brouhaha horribly.
Exactly. If people were bashing him as a person, we would come down on that and not allow it. People are specifically addressing how he handled this situation and are keeping it factual, and that is all fine.
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He just handled this brouhaha horribly.
I think he's handled a lot of brouhaha poorly in social media. I don't know him, so I can't say anything about him personally, but I assume he isn't such a bad person. My guess, and only a guess, is that he's a very emotional dude and the negativity probably effects him more so than others who are in the spotlight.
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He just handled this brouhaha horribly.
I think he's handled a lot of brouhaha poorly in social media. I don't know him, so I can't say anything about him personally, but I assume he isn't such a bad person. My guess, and only a guess, is that he's a very emotional dude and the negativity probably effects him more so than others who are in the spotlight.
Yup, that's how I feel too.
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He just handled this brouhaha horribly.
I think he's handled a lot of brouhaha poorly in social media. I don't know him, so I can't say anything about him personally, but I assume he isn't such a bad person. My guess, and only a guess, is that he's a very emotional dude and the negativity probably effects him more so than others who are in the spotlight.
Yup, that's how I feel too.
I agree.... this seems to be the case
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He just handled this brouhaha horribly.
I think he's handled a lot of brouhaha poorly in social media. I don't know him, so I can't say anything about him personally, but I assume he isn't such a bad person. My guess, and only a guess, is that he's a very emotional dude and the negativity probably effects him more so than others who are in the spotlight.
Yup, that's how I feel too.
I agree.... this seems to be the case
I think so as well, but, honestly, he should take it easy and not be so offensive. As I said before, I think his attitude is doing him a great disservice in the long run.
B.Lee
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My problem has always been his complete inability to distinguish critique from bashing. His regard of this forum has always been the best example of that. He's quite well liked over here and criticism is leveled pretty fairly. Yet to hear it from him this is merely where all of his haters come to post and barely a notch above BM.
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I don't know if I missed it over the years but has he outright critized this forum or was it just something that he said to bosk?
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My problem has always been his complete inability to distinguish critique from bashing. His regard of this forum has always been the best example of that. He's quite well liked over here and criticism is leveled pretty fairly. Yet to hear it from him this is merely where all of his haters come to post and barely a notch above BM.
Bingo. That sums it up perfectly. I almost feel like I owe you fees for the therapy that that post accomplished. :biggrin:
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I don't know if I missed it over the years but has he outright critized this forum or was it just something that he said to bosk?
On his forum DTF is referred to as "that other place" and he frequently cites it as the land of the haters. This predates the divorce, BTW. When he was in DT he had the same opinion because constructive criticisms weren't promptly deleted as they were at his forum.
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My problem has always been his complete inability to distinguish critique from bashing. His regard of this forum has always been the best example of that. He's quite well liked over here and criticism is leveled pretty fairly. Yet to hear it from him this is merely where all of his haters come to post and barely a notch above BM.
Bingo. That sums it up perfectly. I almost feel like I owe you fees for the therapy that that post accomplished. :biggrin:
That's really the gist of it, I agree. MP sadly has a tendency of dividing the world into a "with me" and "against me". With that approach however he pushes a solid number of people who otherwise would be "I'm with you, but maybe only 80%" into the "against me" camp.
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I don't know if I missed it over the years but has he outright critized this forum or was it just something that he said to bosk?
On his forum DTF is referred to as "that other place" and he frequently cites it as the land of the haters. This predates the divorce, BTW. When he was in DT he had the same opinion because constructive criticisms weren't promptly deleted as they were at his forum.
Just asking, but isn't that what a dictator would do? :eek
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He's such a "horrible person" because he handles social media different than you (say you) would had you been a celebrity? That's all it takes to be "horrible"?
Who said that? You put "horrible person" in quotes, as if people here were saying it, and no one has said anything like that at all. The worst thing that I see is one single person implying that he might be a "prick". No one here called him a horrible person.
The next time you want to criticise us for blowing things out of proportion, maybe don't do that yourself at the same time? :lol
Anyone here doing this for a living?
What has that got to do with anything?
"Horrible person" in quotes because there are about ten or more posts that bash him AS A PERSON - the ones where they can't even deal with the band/music because of HIM, or they would be fans but for his presence - though admittedly none actually use those words. If you'd like me to use other words I will. It was meant to categorize the personalization of the views towards him.
The "for a living" is relevant, because we're talking about MIKE'S JOB. We're just a bunch of people metaphorically (for the most part) sitting in our mom's basement commenting on the world as if we know something. He's actually talking about his next source of income. Whether he "should" or "shouldn't" is not our call. He does. It's up to him. I object to the notion that "once he throws it out there, all bets are off!" as if there's no call on our part for any decorum or reservation. After the break up, at the "third site", there were many - meaning more than one or two - posts that were outright anti-Semitic, and even a handful that flat out called him a pedophile with his kids. Really? The egregiousness of his short patience span with people who clearly don't give a fuck about him warrants that?
As for me blowing something out of proportion, well, I'm kind of the only one standing up, so you give me a lot more credit than I deserve. I merely made an observation that didn't jibe with yours.
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Stadler, just like you are criticizing some of us for what we are saying online, some of us are criticizing him for what he said online. I don't think anyone thinks he is a horrible person, he seems like a nice guy.
Not so much; I think most people are like you described; but there are a couple here that have taken it further. It's that I'm responding to.
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The third site, I assume, is 5/8, which is a forum that is intentionally over the top and offensive. It's irrelevant to the discussion here.
I've never met a person who was a drama queen on social media and then wasn't in real life. How people act on social media is usually a good gauge of their true selves.
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I still think some of you are overly harsh. He's such a "horrible person" because he handles social media different than you (say you) would had you been a celebrity? That's all it takes to be "horrible"?
And MIKE is the one that blows stuff out of proportion? At the very least, it's his career. Anyone here doing this for a living?
Look, Stadler, you're acting as if you knew MP personnally. There's no need to be up for him every single time somebody makes a negative comment. Plus, as Rumby said, it's only music we're talking about. Granted, some of the comments may seem harsh, but MP's trying to control everything is calling for that. Making music for a living may induce him to react like that, I don't know, but from a PR point of view, it's a catastrophe because I feel he's pushing some fans away from him. Given Bosk's words, apparently, he couldn't care less, but we'll see once the project is up.
B.Lee
For the record I don't know him personally. And actually sometimes I feel like I DO have to say something. No, not every single time, but I think respectfully, you're grossly over-simplifying the comments. There was a whole line of discussion - which prompted the thought that I shuld say something - that was along the lines of "I can't deal with this guy; I can't be a fan, I can't listen to the music, who would WORK with this guy, yadda yadda yadda", and I have to say, the record doesn't support that at all. With only a handful of exceptions, it seems like most people WOULD work with him, and some again and again. Right now, it appears there are only FOUR people that won't work with him again. And actually, two of those haven't entirely ruled that out.
I frankly don't disagree with your point on the PR side of things - I get that - but I politely disagree that it is 'about the music'. There's no music to be discussed; we're discussing HIM, and some of the comments HAVE been harsh. I've already noted some of them above, so I won't repeat them, but... I just don't agree that "he asked for it". That's playground stuff.
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The forum has rules as to what constitutes taking it too far, or bashing him as a person. If things get too far, you can report it to Bosk who will hammer that person into a pulp.
and
Just because some people are responding differently than how you personally would, doesn't mean that they're "horrible people".
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How people act on social media is usually a good gauge of their true selves.
I disagree and agree, to a degree :lol But that's a good discussion for another thread.
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Stadler, we aren't discussing MP as a person. We are discussing his actions, and specifically, what many consider his inappropriate responses to fans. And more specifically, some of us are discussing his responses to those fans that comprise this forum.
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I get where Portnoy is coming from...its ironic because he said that yet YOU all criticize him for what he feels. And it is his right to choose what is realised.
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No, he can feel however he feels. The issue is what he does publicly. Lashing out at others publicly, and in many instances, hitting below the belt in doing so, isn't cool. If you can't see the difference, sorry. I don't know what to say to you.
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All I'm saying is he can post what he wants....we are no different from the news reporting this and that...
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No, he can feel however he feels. The issue is what he does publicly. Lashing out at others publicly, and in many instances, hitting below the belt in doing so, isn't cool. If you can't see the difference, sorry. I don't know what to say to you.
100% this
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I still think some of you are overly harsh. He's such a "horrible person" because he handles social media different than you (say you) would had you been a celebrity? That's all it takes to be "horrible"?
And MIKE is the one that blows stuff out of proportion? At the very least, it's his career. Anyone here doing this for a living?
Look, Stadler, you're acting as if you knew MP personnally. There's no need to be up for him every single time somebody makes a negative comment. Plus, as Rumby said, it's only music we're talking about. Granted, some of the comments may seem harsh, but MP's trying to control everything is calling for that. Making music for a living may induce him to react like that, I don't know, but from a PR point of view, it's a catastrophe because I feel he's pushing some fans away from him. Given Bosk's words, apparently, he couldn't care less, but we'll see once the project is up.
B.Lee
For the record I don't know him personally. And actually sometimes I feel like I DO have to say something. No, not every single time, but I think respectfully, you're grossly over-simplifying the comments. There was a whole line of discussion - which prompted the thought that I shuld say something - that was along the lines of "I can't deal with this guy; I can't be a fan, I can't listen to the music, who would WORK with this guy, yadda yadda yadda", and I have to say, the record doesn't support that at all. With only a handful of exceptions, it seems like most people WOULD work with him, and some again and again. Right now, it appears there are only FOUR people that won't work with him again. And actually, two of those haven't entirely ruled that out.
I frankly don't disagree with your point on the PR side of things - I get that - but I politely disagree that it is 'about the music'. There's no music to be discussed; we're discussing HIM, and some of the comments HAVE been harsh. I've already noted some of them above, so I won't repeat them, but... I just don't agree that "he asked for it". That's playground stuff.
You're wrong if you think we're discussing him as a person, because it's not the case. We're discussing his attitude and we're doing it in a manner that is far more restrained than MP's. As to your last comment, it's condescending and frankly, you won't get people agreeing with you with comments like that. I'm 46 and I don't need to be lectured that way. Let's just leave it at that.
B.Lee
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Stadler, we aren't discussing MP as a person. We are discussing his actions, and specifically, what many consider his inappropriate responses to fans. And more specifically, some of us are discussing his responses to those fans that comprise this forum.
For the most part, yes. I agree. And I'm not making any comment on that aspect of it. But there were a few that, while I don't think they did anything to explicitly break any forum rules, were extrapolating his actions out to areas that I thought might suggest that deep down, it WAS personal.
I mean, Bosk, can you really say that "how can ANYONE work with him", given his track record of working with COUNTLESS people in the industry, many on multiple occasions and in multiple projects, is not an inferred personal attack? Clearly there's at least some evidence that he's not a drama queen in real life.
Look, I really don't have a dog in this hunt. I don't know the guy any more (and probably less) than many of you. I do think he probably does - as el Barto says - cloud the line between "critique" and "bash". So be it.
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No, he can feel however he feels. The issue is what he does publicly. Lashing out at others publicly, and in many instances, hitting below the belt in doing so, isn't cool. If you can't see the difference, sorry. I don't know what to say to you.
100%!
I love his music and are really looking forward seeing him 3 times over the next months.
However, his communication about the new 'project' feels embarrassing while just reading it.
I just can't believe a 50 year old men is reacting like a little child while the whole 'problem' is within his own organisation.
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Maybe I am understanding this wrong, but if he makes hints about a super group, why is he deleting comments about people speculating about such a group? Seems thats exactly what you would want if you are going to make a public statement about this mysterious group.
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Hey guys i've got a new supergroup with 4 mystery people ! More details soon !
:) supergroup ? I wonder who it could be ?
STOP TALKING ABOUT MY SECRET PROJECT !!!
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Hey guys i've got a new supergroup with 4 mystery people ! More details soon !
:) supergroup ? I wonder who it could be ?
STOP TALKING ABOUT MY SECRET PROJECT !!!
My bet is on Kevin Moore and Buckethead.
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Maybe I am understanding this wrong, but if he makes hints about a super group, why is he deleting comments about people speculating about such a group? Seems thats exactly what you would want if you are going to make a public statement about this mysterious group.
I find it strange too... he wanted people to know that he and Derek were in the studio together in a "prog metal supergroup" but then everything else should be secret for months on end. It's not even building any hype.
I fail to see the reasoning behind that strategy.
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Hey guys i've got a new supergroup with 4 mystery people ! More details soon !
:) supergroup ? I wonder who it could be ?
STOP TALKING ABOUT MY SECRET PROJECT !!!
My bet is on Kevin Moore and Buckethead.
DooDoohead is already confirmed 😏😏
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Maybe I am understanding this wrong, but if he makes hints about a super group, why is he deleting comments about people speculating about such a group? Seems thats exactly what you would want if you are going to make a public statement about this mysterious group.
Because a tech working in the studio posted a video where in the last split second you could see and recognize Bumblefoot, and he doesn't want that info leaked and therefore discussed.
Which is perfectly fine - what I find weird is how he blames the fans when someone in the studio screwed up. It's not like fans hacked a phone or stalked the studio with paparazzi equipment. Someone in the studio posted a video. Cat's out of the bag, damage's done, all he needed to say was one line about "I know there was a video out there but people were not supposed to see it, so please, those of you who know, don't spoil the surprise to everyone else and don't discuss it!".
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I find it hilarious people have resorted to the old, "Oh you meanies will criticize him no matter what he does!" and only provide select examples of people only criticizing him when he is really out of line. :rollin
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All I'm saying is he can post what he wants....we are no different from the news reporting this and that...
No one is saying he can't post what he wants, but when a 50-year old musician celebrity routinely acts like a potty teenager on social media, it is going to be talked about, and not usually in a positive manner.
Look, I really don't have a dog in this hunt.
This is sarcasm, right? Every time there is a poop storm talked about here because of something Portnoy said (which is A LOT), there are a handful of people I always expect to swoop in and have Portnoy's back the second any time someone goes over the line, and you are one of those people. You even admitted to being a "MP fanboy" the other day, but now you don't have a dog in this hunt? Sure.
Maybe I am understanding this wrong, but if he makes hints about a super group, why is he deleting comments about people speculating about such a group? Seems thats exactly what you would want if you are going to make a public statement about this mysterious group.
Because a tech working in the studio posted a video where in the last split second you could see and recognize Bumblefoot, and he doesn't want that info leaked and therefore discussed.
Which is perfectly fine - what I find weird is how he blames the fans when someone in the studio screwed up. It's not like fans hacked a phone or stalked the studio with paparazzi equipment. Someone in the studio posted a video. Cat's out of the bag, damage's done, all he needed to say was one line about "I know there was a video out there but people were not supposed to see it, so please, those of you who know, don't spoil the surprise to everyone else and don't discuss it!".
Yep. This should have been so easy to handle from a PR standpoint.
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All I'm saying is he can post what he wants....we are no different from the news reporting this and that...
Actually we are different. When someone disagrees with something we say, our response isn't "I have a RIGHT to POST what I WANT to post!!!!"
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When MP speaks, this forum becomes worse than The View. :lol
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Maybe we can go back to speculating who is in the supergroup. :lol
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I think Bumblefoot could be in, what do you guys think?
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Bumblefoot would be sweet, who do you guys think could be the bass player? Conner Green?
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Wonder who the drummer is? :P
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Mike Mangini
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Bubblebutt.
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(https://rs682.pbsrc.com/albums/vv182/totesmagotes69/scuzzlebutt.jpg~c200)
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Scuttle Butt.
Stevie Ray Vaughn CONFIRMED :coolio
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What's funny about the whole thing is that by his words and actions MP all but confirmed that Bumblefoot is involved. He could of just said that Bumblefoot was recording a new album at the same studio or something and this would be a non-story. I think that MP just wants complete control over everything and in the age of social media and the internet that's practically impossible. The way he handled his forum really turned me off. I hardly post or visit there anymore and this type of stuff doesn't help my desire to go back.
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I've said it before but MP was my favourite member of Dream Theater when he was in the band.
Ever since he quit he's done all he can to put me off him as a person.
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Love MP and his passion for the fans and music but I'm not quite sure what happened with this attempt at hype. He let us know there
was a new prog metal supergroup recording and of course all of us begin the natural course of action...speculation and guessing at
WHO is in the band. It's 100% guaranteed we are all going to do this, especially since this is the 1st such project since he left DT.
But for reasons only he and the members know he decides it's not appropriate to speculate about this yet so the plug is pulled on all
comments. I guess I'll just have to trust that there is some significant reason why there has to be such a veil of secrecy about this
but all in all it's pretty confusing.
Still anxious for the album though. I've been waiting for MP to go back to his roots for years now.
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This is sarcasm, right? Every time there is a poop storm talked about here because of something Portnoy said (which is A LOT), there are a handful of people I always expect to swoop in and have Portnoy's back the second any time someone goes over the line, and you are one of those people. You even admitted to being a "MP fanboy" the other day, but now you don't have a dog in this hunt? Sure.
Not sure what you want of me? I conceded before - and will again - to being a fanboy. But it's not as if I'm blind or immune to what he does. I see it. I just don't think it's all that big a deal. Maybe I'm used to it because I was married to someone like that. HAHA. And by "no dog in this hunt", meaning, I don't make any money off this, I'm not a member of his organization, I've never met the man so there's no personal interest, I'm not willing to burn any relationship bridges over this, and at the end of the day we're talking about a "band" (maybe) that hasn't released a note of music. So no, I don't really have a dog in this hunt.
I DO think people are too harsh on him. Always right to the "he's such a CHILD!" How come there are so few - if any - mentions that maybe he was protecting Bumblefoot for some reason? Thal has that project with Scott Stapp that is trying to make a go of it; maybe he just laid down some sick beats in the studio on the condition that "hey don't tell anyone; I don't want to blow my main gig", and MP was just throwing some support his way? He can't actually SAY that, but he did say "there's a method to my madness".
Which is perfectly fine - what I find weird is how he blames the fans when someone in the studio screwed up. It's not like fans hacked a phone or stalked the studio with paparazzi equipment. Someone in the studio posted a video. Cat's out of the bag, damage's done, all he needed to say was one line about "I know there was a video out there but people were not supposed to see it, so please, those of you who know, don't spoil the surprise to everyone else and don't discuss it!".
Yep. This should have been so easy to handle from a PR standpoint.
This is a very fair point; it was a legit way to handle it and probably would have avoided all the calamity.
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It's just daft. It's clear he wanted there to be hype as he was releasing teasers. I mean if no one had given a rats ass then I'm sure he'd have been pissed about that too. The only thing I can think is that he wanted there to be loads of hype and speculation but for everyone to be way off base. The fact that it all came out pretty quickly made him lose his rag and he was angry. It's like he wanted to out smart all his fans and keep everyone guessing but failed, so had a tantrum. That's just my take on it.
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MP has a long history of sticking his foot in his mouth. This isn't the first time, and it isn't the last. What surprises me is that after all these years of doing it, and knowing he does it, and I assume then regretting it to a degree afterward, why he continues. I mean, let's not kid ourselves -- for example, he lost the A7X gig not because the band wanted someone else, or because MP himself was "too busy," but because of his big mouth. He knows it, everyone knows it. He can spin it anyway he wants it, and A7X (who seems very good at handling publicity) quite nicely sidestepped the issue, but the reality is, MP likely had that gig in the can after doing a record and touring, and he just killed it because of his mouth.
But whether someone buys that or not, it is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is -- MP needs to use a professional to vet what he says online. Not all the time, but when he has something big he is working on, he really needs to use a filter he can trust to do the right thing. Because clearly, there is an issue.
I applaud MP for wanting to be connected directly with fans of his work. That says something really good about a famous musician who makes it a point to have that connection. But we're all flawed, and MP's flaws are magnified because he doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut. And I don't say any of this out of hate of MP. I'm very excited for his new project. But the way he's treating fans (threatening to ban them, etc.) is just more of the same BS. He should know better by now.
Here's hoping this blows over, and everyone maintains excitement over his new band.
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But whether someone buys that or not, it is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is -- MP needs to use a professional to vet what he says online.
You clearly have never dealt with a micromanager :lol
Wanting to do everything because "otherwise it doesn't get done right" is their nature.
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I think it would have been better for MP to keep quiet until the summer instead of throwing out the bone he did and expect the hounds to be satisfied until months have passed.
Does anyone think it was good marketing to just announce a prog metal supergroup is in the works but not give anymore info and say that you wont know more until summer?
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I think it was a mistake to even call it "prog metal supergroup". It's total clickbait, and likely can't live up to its expectations.
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Does anyone think it was good marketing to just announce a prog metal supergroup is in the works but not give anymore info and say that you wont know more until summer?
I don't think the announcement was bad, but if you are going to have issues when people start putting the pieces of the puzzle together or get mad when things leak, then it's probably a poor decision to make that public.
I think it was a mistake to even call it "prog metal supergroup". It's total clickbait, and likely can't live up to its expectations.
This too. I think using the term supergroup is a bad idea, unless in fact this turns out to be a true supergroup unlike anything we had seen from MP before.... but that appears to not be the case at all and maybe the fact people are discovering this before the full announcement is what is ticking him off?
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But whether someone buys that or not, it is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is -- MP needs to use a professional to vet what he says online.
You clearly have never dealt with a micromanager :lol
Wanting to do everything because "otherwise it doesn't get done right" is their nature.
:lol
No, I have, because I am one by nature. :lol But I learned that while it is helpful to a point, for much bigger success, you need to focus where your strengths are, and let people who know what they're doing handle the tasks that you aren't quite as strong at. To this day, I'm still really surprised MP hasn't made a similar realization.
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MP needs to use a professional to vet what he says online.
It's a sad day when you can say "MP has something in common with the SCROTUS."
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Who is Scrotus ? :P
Supreme Court Republican Of The United states Military
:neverusethis:
Is that why he's so wrinkly
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Who is Scrotus ? :P
Supreme Court Republican Of The United states Military
:neverusethis:
Is that why he's so wrinkly
So-Called Ruler Of The US (Trump)
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MP needs to use a professional to vet what he says online.
It's a sad day when you can say "MP has something in common with the SCROTUS."
I can't remember if it was this thread or the other one, but I pointed out the extreme similarities between him and Trump. And I didn't even think of the "he needs someone to oversee his social media activity" one. :lol :lol
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https://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/rumors/are-ex-dream-theater-drummer-mike-portnoy-and-keyboardist-derek-sherinian-back-together
They're not letting it rest :lol
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:lol if I was a reporter over at BM - i'd make a full report of every single rumour about MP.
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MP needs to use a professional to vet what he says online.
It's a sad day when you can say "MP has something in common with the SCROTUS."
I can't remember if it was this thread or the other one, but I pointed out the extreme similarities between him and Trump. And I didn't even think of the "he needs someone to oversee his social media activity" one. :lol :lol
We need Zydar's Photoshop skills.
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i'll have a go too.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8lCLf7X.jpg)
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:lol
:metal
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:biggrin:
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I'm still chuckling. Perfect. :lol
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:lol if I was a reporter over at BM - i'd make a full report of every single rumour about MP.
https://youtu.be/q6EoRBvdVPQ?t=6s
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https://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/rumors/are-ex-dream-theater-drummer-mike-portnoy-and-keyboardist-derek-sherinian-back-together
They're not letting it rest :lol
Well, I think MP wants to speculate about Derek being in the group so that part is fine...at least I think, according to MP's wishes, or what we have put together.
It's the fact that they mention Bumblefoot which is NOT an approved rumor which makes it too far...I think.
I mean, the hints he threw down with Derek were pretty obvious, right?
So....I guess we just need MP to tell us what rumors we are allowed to talk about. He should probably make metal injection aware as well.
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It's Trumpnoy! Nice job, Koto.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8lCLf7X.jpg)
Oh God don't let him see this :D I think this would freak him out!
BTW if I remember correctly MP has always stayed pretty neutral on social media when it came to politics.. Not to start an OT here, but do you guys think he voted for Trump?
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I don't know about MP but JP had something to say about Trump.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/dream_theaters_john_petrucci_give_trump_a_chance_i_like_him.html
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I vaguely remember a Facebook post from Mike a few months ago which implied that he didn't like Trump, but I may be wrong.
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I've said it before but MP was my favourite member of Dream Theater when he was in the band.
Ever since he quit he's done all he can to put me off him as a person.
Whoa, this surprised me.
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I don't know about MP but JP had something to say about Trump.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/dream_theaters_john_petrucci_give_trump_a_chance_i_like_him.html
It's not hard to tell what JP is. If you look at his Twitter account, he always followed the Republican candidate. It doesn't surprise me.
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Regardless of where you stand, that JP quote about Trump was classy and tactful. What Edmund Burke said at the end of the article is the exact opposite, and it mirrors the smug liberal attitude which put Trump in office in the first place.
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JP isn't one to be intentionally controversial, regardless of what anyone around him says.
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Regardless of where you stand, that JP quote about Trump was classy and tactful.
I wish other musicians/celebrities took that approach as well.
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I can't imagine great things being in store unless Trump gets impeached and he is replaced by someone who isn't completely inept.
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Regardless of where you stand, that JP quote about Trump was classy and tactful.
Yeah, I think we discussed this interview in P/R when it came out, and that was my take as well. JP is just being classy and reasonable.
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This is not the P/R subforum.
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So I had this thought while at work yesterday - whenever Mike (because he'll be the first one to announce it) reveals who is in the band other than Derek, how does he expect this fans (that have been following this so far) to react? With fake surprise, or blind adoration? Like...we all already know who the guitarist is, and unless we are all wrong and it doesn't turn out to be him, only THEN can we be truly surprised. If it turns out that it was Bumblefoot all along, then most of us will probably react with "Well, see, there ya go...told ya so" feelings, and I can guarantee that will illicit some sort of reaction from Mike (probably mass post deletions on Facebook posts).
If he's smart, whenever another announcement is made, it should just be the guitarist so we get that out of the way. If he saves that announcement for last, it'll be a horrible anti-climax, especially since we don't have any idea who the bassist or vocalist may be. Announce the guitarist next, then the bassist, and end on a high note with the vocalist and band name. I think that might have the best possible reaction, going in that order, and depending on who the vocalist is, maybe by then, we may have all gotten over this whole thing with video-leaks and MP-control and what not.
-Marc.
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He should just release everything at once when it's all confirmed and settled for sure. Puzzles aren't any fun when someone gets upset when pieces of the puzzle get solved.
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He should just release everything at once when it's all confirmed and settled for sure. Puzzles aren't any fun when someone gets upset when pieces of the puzzle get solved.
How did DT react when someone figured out part of False Awakening from the short studio clip ?
Pretty sure - if memory serves - that JR or JP said it was " pretty cool " that someone was able to figure it out from a quick screen grab of some MIDI.
It was either that or they didn't mention it at all. Both of which would be classier than whatever MP is trying to achieve.
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He should just release everything at once when it's all confirmed and settled for sure. Puzzles aren't any fun when someone gets upset when pieces of the puzzle get solved.
How did DT react when someone figured out part of False Awakening from the short studio clip ?
Pretty sure - if memory serves - that JR or JP said it was " pretty cool " that someone was able to figure it out from a quick screen grab of some MIDI.
It was either that or they didn't mention it at all. Both of which would be classier than whatever MP is trying to achieve.
Or when people started to find the artist who did Astonishing images... they did not "attack" fans for finding out too much as I recall
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And when the tour poster was found saying
The Astonishing
DREAM THEATER
Long before the album title was announced....Nothing.
And when a band was in the same studio as Noel Gallagher recording his secret first album - they tweeted about it.
Noel didn't say a thing. He didn't confirm or deny it. He ignored it and got on with it.
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Like...we all already know who the guitarist is, and unless we are all wrong and it doesn't turn out to be him, only THEN can we be truly surprised.
Technically, we don't know that Bumblefoot will be in the band. He could have just been in the area and came over to jam.
He could have been auditioning for a spot in the band (and not gotten it).
He may not be THE guitarist, but just recording a solo for one song (i.e., not a member of the band, but doing a guest spot).
It could be any of those, or something else entirely. So I totally get why MP was pissed that it got out.
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To me if he just came over for a jam - it makes NO Sense that MP would be so mad.
If it's NOT him just say something like " Oops ! Someone jumped the gun in the studio ! Were we in the same studio and were jamming ? Is he doing a guest spot ?
you'll just have to wait and find out !! "
Not bite fans heads off when they did precisely 0 for the actual info getting out....
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I thought it might be a variation on what Hef said; that maybe somehow the leak made Mike look bad to Bumblefoot for some reason, or created some legal/licensing headache. Not as if this is the first time Mike's done this, though, so that can't be all of it.
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He could have been auditioning for a spot in the band (and not gotten it).
You don't book the studio for a whole week, go through the process of perfectly miking the whole kit (the pics he posted of his kit look it's a recording setup, not just a live setup), setup Derek's 12235245603526894173 keyboards, etc. for just an auditio. He clearly is working with the band either as the main guitarist or, as you also said, as a special guest or something similar, but still that doesn't justify MP's reaction at all.
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I thought it might be a variation on what Hef said; that maybe somehow the leak made Mike look bad to Bumblefoot for some reason, or created some legal/licensing headache. Not as if this is the first time Mike's done this, though, so that can't be all of it.
Maybe true
Like...we all already know who the guitarist is, and unless we are all wrong and it doesn't turn out to be him, only THEN can we be truly surprised.
Technically, we don't know that Bumblefoot will be in the band. He could have just been in the area and came over to jam.
He could have been auditioning for a spot in the band (and not gotten it).
He may not be THE guitarist, but just recording a solo for one song (i.e., not a member of the band, but doing a guest spot).
It could be any of those, or something else entirely. So I totally get why MP was pissed that it got out.
Also maybe true.
But the problem for me is, none of that is likely true given the initial tweet/social media post by MP. You don't announce a new super group if the "super" part isn't in place yet. You also, typically, don't get a recording studio if the band is not ready yet. (Some bigger bands can likely do this with a bigger budget).
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Like...we all already know who the guitarist is, and unless we are all wrong and it doesn't turn out to be him, only THEN can we be truly surprised.
Technically, we don't know that Bumblefoot will be in the band. He could have just been in the area and came over to jam.
He could have been auditioning for a spot in the band (and not gotten it).
He may not be THE guitarist, but just recording a solo for one song (i.e., not a member of the band, but doing a guest spot).
It could be any of those, or something else entirely. So I totally get why MP was pissed that it got out.
It's OK for him to get pissed. I just wish he did not take it out on the fans.
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Like...we all already know who the guitarist is, and unless we are all wrong and it doesn't turn out to be him, only THEN can we be truly surprised.
Technically, we don't know that Bumblefoot will be in the band. He could have just been in the area and came over to jam.
He could have been auditioning for a spot in the band (and not gotten it).
He may not be THE guitarist, but just recording a solo for one song (i.e., not a member of the band, but doing a guest spot).
It could be any of those, or something else entirely. So I totally get why MP was pissed that it got out.
It's OK for him to get pissed. I just wish he did not take it out on the fans.
Exactly and that's the problem I have. Someone in the studio posted a video that Mike didn't want posted and then when his fans comment on it and post about it, he gets pissed at them. Then you have a guy (moog) post a message praising Mike and saying how fans disrespected Mike and Mike responds by saying "moog gets it" and then threatens his fans that he won't put up with it and will "shut that shit down" which is eventually what happened. I've been a HUGE supporter of Mike for the past 23 years and when I saw his Facebook post teasing this band initially I was so excited as I've been waiting for him to do this since he left DT. I have to say though my excitement has diminished a bit given all that's happened.
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So I had this thought while at work yesterday - whenever Mike (because he'll be the first one to announce it) reveals who is in the band other than Derek, how does he expect this fans (that have been following this so far) to react? With fake surprise, or blind adoration? Like...we all already know who the guitarist is, and unless we are all wrong and it doesn't turn out to be him, only THEN can we be truly surprised. If it turns out that it was Bumblefoot all along, then most of us will probably react with "Well, see, there ya go...told ya so" feelings, and I can guarantee that will illicit some sort of reaction from Mike (probably mass post deletions on Facebook posts).
If he's smart, whenever another announcement is made, it should just be the guitarist so we get that out of the way. If he saves that announcement for last, it'll be a horrible anti-climax, especially since we don't have any idea who the bassist or vocalist may be. Announce the guitarist next, then the bassist, and end on a high note with the vocalist and band name. I think that might have the best possible reaction, going in that order, and depending on who the vocalist is, maybe by then, we may have all gotten over this whole thing with video-leaks and MP-control and what not.
-Marc.
Personally I do not care about announcements and staff! All I care about is the outcome, meaning the music itself.
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Like...we all already know who the guitarist is, and unless we are all wrong and it doesn't turn out to be him, only THEN can we be truly surprised.
Technically, we don't know that Bumblefoot will be in the band. He could have just been in the area and came over to jam.
He could have been auditioning for a spot in the band (and not gotten it).
He may not be THE guitarist, but just recording a solo for one song (i.e., not a member of the band, but doing a guest spot).
It could be any of those, or something else entirely. So I totally get why MP was pissed that it got out.
It's OK for him to get pissed. I just wish he did not take it out on the fans.
Oh, sure. I am not in any way defending his PUBLIC reaction. That was as bad as always.
I was just commenting on M's suggestion that we already know who the guitarist is. Well, not necessarily.
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So I had this thought while at work yesterday - whenever Mike (because he'll be the first one to announce it) reveals who is in the band other than Derek, how does he expect this fans (that have been following this so far) to react? With fake surprise, or blind adoration? Like...we all already know who the guitarist is, and unless we are all wrong and it doesn't turn out to be him, only THEN can we be truly surprised. If it turns out that it was Bumblefoot all along, then most of us will probably react with "Well, see, there ya go...told ya so" feelings, and I can guarantee that will illicit some sort of reaction from Mike (probably mass post deletions on Facebook posts).
If he's smart, whenever another announcement is made, it should just be the guitarist so we get that out of the way. If he saves that announcement for last, it'll be a horrible anti-climax, especially since we don't have any idea who the bassist or vocalist may be. Announce the guitarist next, then the bassist, and end on a high note with the vocalist and band name. I think that might have the best possible reaction, going in that order, and depending on who the vocalist is, maybe by then, we may have all gotten over this whole thing with video-leaks and MP-control and what not.
-Marc.
I'd agree with all that. However, it could be possible that if MP sees this as a long term, permanent band, he's also knee deep in making sure the band gels, and everyone is on the same page. And then once they do (and if they do), then signing contracts and getting legalities out of the way (I am sure after his DT experience, he is probably making sure things are clearly spelled out). Just because he has people in mind, and they worked together for a week or so, doesn't mean everything is GO yet, or even that they HAVE "A" singer. They might just be jamming, to see how it goes, record some demos, and then bring in a few singers later on, and see how everyone fits together in the same room, and hanging out.
If this IS a permanent thing, he's smart to take his time about the whole thing, and like he said, get it all set up, and once the i's are dotted and t's are crossed, if it is a BIG announcement (in terms of the singer), the label involved obviously would want to put together a sizeable marketing campaign.
So there could be a lot of factors in play. Bumblefoot potentially being the guitarist (or ONE OF the guitarists) is out there, and it obviously was a "leak" from MP's perspective. But again, perhaps MP doesn't know yet how the band is going to shape up other than him and Derek. And if that's true, I get why HE just wants to be the guy teasing things, and doesn't want things to get out of control.
Is he going about it the wrong way? In my opinion, yes. But I also do understand that there may be other reasons why he is trying to control the situation. Things may be really fluid right now, and he might not want to reveal too many people and details and then change them later (which he'd get crucified for, I'm sure).
So yes, MP could handle this better. BUT, I am sure there is a LOT more behind the scenes going on, and a lot of that is probably contributing to a lot of the secrecy.
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What better way for a band to gel than watching him blow up on Twitter!
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What better way for a band to gel than watching him blow up on Twitter!
The other thing I realized -- IF Bumble is in the band, he has another band that is going to tour extensively soon -- Art of Anarchy, who released its first album with Scott Stapp today. So MP might also have been trying not to steal his potential bandmate's spotlight or take away from their album launch with rumors about him being in MP's band.
I just ordered the record today, and I forgot Bumble was in that band (I really liked their record with Scott Weiland, and I think Stapp will do a fine job).
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The other thing I realized -- IF Bumble is in the band, he has another band that is going to tour extensively soon -- Art of Anarchy, who released its first album with Scott Stapp today. So MP might also have been trying not to steal his potential bandmate's spotlight or take away from their album launch with rumors about him being in MP's band.
Good point. In a speculation perspective, best for MP to learn from that after his tenure with A7X since that kinda coincided with him leaving DT and I'm sure people, at the time, was pointing the fingers at A7X as the main reason why he left DT and A7X, reasonably so, didn't want to deal with that kind of drama as it was affecting what was really important which was the music and their latest album at the time, Nightmare, which was a very important album to them in all fronts (commercially, personally, etc.).
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I know the earlier Photoshop was mostly done in jest, but there definitely is a similarity in character between those two. Whenever things don't go according to plan, a scapegoat needs to be found and publicly slaughtered.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
Not to be anal about this, but there are PLENTY of examples with MP 'locking in' with the other instruments:
1. Constant Motion: https://youtu.be/EjtfpfW-Ogk?t=245 This is perhaps the best example, not just of MP locking in, but of why I think his drumming trumps anyone else's on Earth. There are very few drummers I've heard who can come up with such interesting, creative parts.
2. The Great Debate: https://youtu.be/4z6vpiXQJNA?t=127 Locked in with guitars, bass.
3. The Dance of Eternity: https://youtu.be/PfydR1CQ76k?t=223 Locked in with full band.
4. Stream of Consciousness: https://youtu.be/c52g8k7hFcI?t=184
To me, that section in Constant Motion is the single greatest drum part ever written. The big thing about these parts is that while MP is locked in with the rest of the band, the parts still have their own identity. That to me is the biggest difference between Portnoy and Mangini. MM tries to blend with the other instruments while MP plays to the song but allows his playing to stand out.
THAT drum part was the catalyst for me becoming interested in music as a whole. It was my inspiration for picking up the drumsticks and diving down the rabbit hole of prog and heavy metal. Literally a life-changing musical moment.
this!
constant motion
i bet MM was struggling!
https://youtu.be/VzeZpfqp-tY?t=4m
https://youtu.be/Dyo0dQegGW8?t=4m2s
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i bet MM was struggling!
https://youtu.be/VzeZpfqp-tY?t=4m
https://youtu.be/Dyo0dQegGW8?t=4m2s
Doesn't sound like it.
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Actually, he did quite well, it sounded really good. And with the way MM's kit is set up, doing 16th notes on the hi-hat with two hands can't be easy or at least there's more reaching than with a normal kit. I wish more of the video focused on him, but I understand that it's a Petrucci solo...
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I think MM nailed the part! However, the MP era song, from that tour, that Mangini really KILLED (on a good way) and, imo, played even better than Portnoy, was Panick Attack. Just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I :metal
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i bet MM was struggling!
https://youtu.be/VzeZpfqp-tY?t=4m
https://youtu.be/Dyo0dQegGW8?t=4m2s
If you made that bet in Vegas, you'd be broke.
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I think MMs version is a good show of how they're different. He almost entirely doubles the accents/hits of the guitar, while MP was also filling in the spaces between hits and notes.
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MP sid better live with the hi-hats. MM did better with the bass drums. As expected.
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I think MM nailed the part! However, the MP era song, from that tour, that Mangini really KILLED (on a good way) and, imo, played even better than Portnoy, was Panick Attack. Just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I :metal
100% agreed, he totally nailed it!
SO ENERGY
POWER
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Love the comments:
"Labrie has 4 arms" :lol
Yes, MM kills this! :metal
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I think MM nailed the part! However, the MP era song, from that tour, that Mangini really KILLED (on a good way) and, imo, played even better than Portnoy, was Panick Attack. Just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I :metal
100% agreed, he totally nailed it!
SO ENERGY
POWER
Ugh, I wish I liked that song, because you're right, he really does nail it.
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I think MM nailed the part! However, the MP era song, from that tour, that Mangini really KILLED (on a good way) and, imo, played even better than Portnoy, was Panick Attack. Just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I :metal
He absolutely nailed it! I really enjoy watching MM playing.
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I think MM nailed the part! However, the MP era song, from that tour, that Mangini really KILLED (on a good way) and, imo, played even better than Portnoy, was Panick Attack. Just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I :metal
That's pretty damn good. It actually makes the song worth listening to.
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It's hard to match Mangini when the song calls for metal-style drumming.
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I think MM nailed the part! However, the MP era song, from that tour, that Mangini really KILLED (on a good way) and, imo, played even better than Portnoy, was Panick Attack. Just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I :metal
That's pretty damn good. It actually makes the song worth listening to.
It would be better if MM stood up and spit during the song.
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I think MM nailed the part! However, the MP era song, from that tour, that Mangini really KILLED (on a good way) and, imo, played even better than Portnoy, was Panick Attack. Just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I :metal
That's pretty damn good. It actually makes the song worth listening to.
It would be better if MM stood up and spit during the song.
Yeah and needs more WAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOO in the mic.
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I think MM nailed the part! However, the MP era song, from that tour, that Mangini really KILLED (on a good way) and, imo, played even better than Portnoy, was Panick Attack. Just watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I :metal
That's pretty damn good. It actually makes the song worth listening to.
It would be better if MM stood up and spit during the song.
Yeah and needs more WAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOO in the mic.
:rollin
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i bet MM was struggling!
https://youtu.be/VzeZpfqp-tY?t=4m
https://youtu.be/Dyo0dQegGW8?t=4m2s
If you made that bet in Vegas, you'd be broke.
:angel:
MP sid better live with the hi-hats. MM did better with the bass drums. As expected.
this might be the case, for some reason i prefer to hear the hi-hats sounds in the section. and also mentioned in the comments section about the deccabons:
SebaChannel1 year ago
is it me? or mangini couldnt handle the solo? he he used the bass pedals lol
3
Colmill052
Colmill0521 year ago
Why would he play it the same? And if I am right, the kicks are a bit too cranked on the mix. If he could play the quick pre solo section, which is grueling, I doubt he cant do it but the mix hid the toms
1
Colmill052
Colmill0521 year ago
Seriously that part with the hi hat and quick tom fills still is exhausting
ossibossi100
ossibossi1001 year ago
+SebaChannel Except he didn't?
SebaChannel
SebaChannel1 year ago
+ossibossi100 im not sure, but i think this comment was supossed to be in other video xd
wondaful9
wondaful91 year ago
ur right bro. I'm wearing earbuds. and he couldn't handle the solo. he used his kickers at the end. I think it's because of the way his set is. the decabons are probably too high for him to hit them that quickly. and his toms are set too complexed for that. but yeah, I was a lil disappointed with this performance. I was wanting to see how he was gona pull off one of Portnoy's best parts.
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this might be the case, for some reason i prefer to hear the hi-hats sounds in the section. and also mentioned in the comments section about the deccabons:
What exactly are you saying about how Mangini played the toms and octobans? Look at these footages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyo0dQegGW8
He can do that with ease if he wants to.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
Interesting point. I've certainly overlooked that much of the time.
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this might be the case, for some reason i prefer to hear the hi-hats sounds in the section. and also mentioned in the comments section about the deccabons:
What exactly are you saying about how Mangini played the toms and octobans? Look at these footages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyo0dQegGW8
He can do that with ease if he wants to.
Holy crap! Not only is Mike in top form, but the whole band is. That might be my personal favorite version of Constant Motion. I don't think they've played that in America since Portnoy was in the band, right? Man, they need to bring it back.
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I think that's maybe a criticism you can levy against DT overall. MM might be the first DT member who consciously tries to lock in with another instrument. I feel usually each instrument just does its own thing. KM even commented on that in an interview a few years ago.
Interesting point. I've certainly overlooked that much of the time.
MP has said numerous times that he has locked in with other instruments during a live show. I think he said it a couple of times during DVD commentaries.
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But not bass. I think he said he doesn't have the bass in his personal mix.
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I know he said JP for sure.
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Yeah, MP made several comments in interviews and commentaries that his in ear mix with DT was pretty much mostly JP, with a lot of his (MPs) vocals, and a little JR, JM, and James basically as guides.
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Interesting. That somewhat seems counterintuitive at first blush, but makes sense when you think about it. Drums typically accent what is going on with the lead instruments and vocals, so the drummer needs to be able to hear and follow what they are doing. Bass typically locks in with and accents drums, not vice versa, so the drummer doesn't necessarily really need to hear what the bass is doing for the most part.
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I can't say I can follow the above argument. I have *never* heard of a drummer who didn't care about hearing the bass. The two are after all the "rhythm section" of the band, the "pocket" as JM put it.
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I can't say I can follow the above argument. I have *never* heard of a drummer who didn't care about hearing the bass. The two are after all the "rhythm section" of the band, the "pocket" as JM put it.
That is true. But the bass generally follows the drums. The drums do not usually follow the bass. So the bassist definitely needs to have the drums high in her personal mix to follow them, but the drummer does not necessarily need to have the bass.
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Well, I'm sure MP could hear JM in his ears, it's just a matter of how loud. His comments always seemed to imply JP's guitar was louder than JM's bass.
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I can't say I can follow the above argument. I have *never* heard of a drummer who didn't care about hearing the bass. The two are after all the "rhythm section" of the band, the "pocket" as JM put it.
The drums do not need to follow the bass, necessarily. The drums are usually the 'boss' so to speak, in a band and thus they make the rhythm, not follow the rest of the band. In a live setting the bass guitar is also not a convenient instrument to listen to when trying to follow the song (low frequencies aren't easy to follow, especially in a live setting) which is why the guitars on the monitors might be preferred. Contrary to what you are writing, I know more drummers that prefer to hear guitars, than those who to have bass on the monitors, including the drummer in my band.
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When I played drums, I always wanted to hear what my bass player was doing.
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When I played drums, I always wanted to hear what my bass player was doing.
Kotow's songs were really technical and sometimes I even had to count in my head some parts as we were doing two time signatures at once...
Hearing the bass was crucial !
We had a rule of No 4/4 *unless* the riff sounded catchier in 4/4
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You can always tell when a drummer and bass player don't feed off each other.
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You can actually feel JM's enthusiasm for playing with MM.
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You can actually feel JM's enthusiasm for playing with MM.
And Myung has been a lot more communicative since MP quit.
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I guess it depends on the type of music you play.
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I guess if the AC/DC drummer listened to a lot of Cliff Williams - he'd fall asleep. :p
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I wonder if this supergroup is a manifestation of this sentiment that Mike aired in an interview last year:
https://noisefull.com/interviews/mike-portnoy
"Well, the only thing I miss (about being in Dream Theater), to be honest, is being the captain of a ship. Because after I left Dream Theater - all of the things I’ve done after Dream Theater that I just mentioned, in all of those cases - I’ve never been the clear leader. Everything I’ve done like Flying Colors, The Winery Dogs, they’re more collaborative roles and to be honest I do miss the amount of control that I had in Dream Theater. I was able to make 90% of the decisions and direction in Dream Theater on my own and didn’t really discuss everything and those guys kind of trusted me with that. So, I do kind of miss that.
One of the things about being in a band is that sometimes the collaborative process can be great, but it’s also incredibly frustrating at times. Having to go through a hundred emails on every single decision sometimes, you pull your hair out of your head and I miss the days that I had in Dream Theater, where I ran the show. But honestly it’s okay, because that was then and this is now."
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You can actually feel JM's enthusiasm for playing with MM.
And Myung has been a lot more communicative since MP quit.
Yes. He improved it to, "I'm feeling VERY spooky."
I can't say I can follow the above argument. I have *never* heard of a drummer who didn't care about hearing the bass. The two are after all the "rhythm section" of the band, the "pocket" as JM put it.
That is true. But the bass generally follows the drums. The drums do not usually follow the bass. So the bassist definitely needs to have the drums high in her personal mix to follow them, but the drummer does not necessarily need to have the bass.
Generally, yes. But not many bassists, like Myung, will sometimes double the lead. I thought I read/heard that MP used to follow JP more than the bass and JM followed JR more. I could be imagining it but I'm pretty sure that was said at some point. Obviously it's not MP anymore but it's something to think about.
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MY OPINOIN ONLY: You can teach people to play bass (Fripp famously taught Boz Burrell to play because he needed a bass player as well as a singer; Sid Vicious), but I have an adage:
There are no "great" bands that don't have a "great" drummer. A drummer can make a good band great, but a band can't make a good drummer great.
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Generally, yes. But not many bassists, like Myung, will sometimes double the lead. I thought I read/heard that MP used to follow JP more than the bass and JM followed JR more. I could be imagining it but I'm pretty sure that was said at some point. Obviously it's not MP anymore but it's something to think about.
Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. Again, to me, it makes perfect sense. Having your own personal mix how you want it onstage is such an individual thing. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me that a lot of drummers would want the bass pretty low in their own mix. As a singer who drums a little, I think about my own, and how different they would be in each of those roles. As a singer, I want primarily guitar and vocals. If I can't hear what the primary instrument, the guitar is doing, I can't necessarily tell where we are in the song and can't tell if I am in key. I also need to hear myself clearly so I know if I am in key and so that I don't unconsciously push too hard by thinking I am low in the mix, and thereby tiring my voice out. Drums come next, but lower in the mix. As a drummer, I want the lead instruments front and center. I am laying down the beat, so they mostly follow me. But I need to know when and how to accent in order to drive the songs, and I can't do that unless I can hear the leads. Hearing the bass too high in the mix is not only unnecessary, but would be detrimental if it interferes with me more easily picking out the leads. Again, others may feel differently, but that's my preference.
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Sounds like Billy Sheehan might be the bassist for Portnoy's new progressive metal supergroup, according to Richie Kotzen. So that means we could have four band members identified: Portnoy, Sherinian, Bumblefoot and Sheehan.
Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/richie-kotzen-on-the-winery-dogs-future-i-dont-foresee-anything-happening-for-a-couple-of-years/
"For me, it's time to come home and do what I've always done. I have been making Richie Kotzen records since I was 18; it's a source of survival, sanity, art, and everything you want to call it. I know the other guys have something very exciting in the works which people will love. It may fill a WINERY DOGS void."
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I certainly didn't get the same response while reading that article. Sad the Winery Dogs are going on hiatus. I mean, I assumed they would due to other projects but definitely didn't want a multiple year break. Cool they have a blu ray coming out though :metal
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Sounds like Billy Sheehan might be the bassist for Portnoy's new progressive metal supergroup, according to Richie Kotzen. So that means we could have four band members identified: Portnoy, Sherinian, Bumblefoot and Sheehan.
Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/richie-kotzen-on-the-winery-dogs-future-i-dont-foresee-anything-happening-for-a-couple-of-years/
"For me, it's time to come home and do what I've always done. I have been making Richie Kotzen records since I was 18; it's a source of survival, sanity, art, and everything you want to call it. I know the other guys have something very exciting in the works which people will love. It may fill a WINERY DOGS void."
I didn't at ALL get that. Portnoy has his things but Billy Sheehan is reportedly doing a new Mr. Big record.
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That's how I read it as well Stads. I'd be really surprised if Billy is in the new band.
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That's how I read it as well Stads. I'd be really surprised if Billy is in the new band.
It actually sounded like Billy was upset WD are taking a break. He says he believes in being a band, not a project. That makes me think he is less likely to be apart of this new supergroup because I feel it's more likely to end up as a project than an ongoing band. Just my feeling on this since it is being labelled a supergroup.
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To me, Kotzen made it sound like Portnoy and Sheehan were working on a project together that "people will love." Could be separate projects, but the way he worded it it sounded like the same project. Guess we'll see eventually, lol.
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To me, Kotzen made it sound like Portnoy and Sheehan were working on a project together that "people will love." Could be separate projects, but the way he worded it it sounded like the same project. Guess we'll see eventually, lol.
Hey, not at all saying you're wrong, just that I read it a different way. And you're 100% right with that last point: we'll find out, won't we!
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To me, Kotzen made it sound like Portnoy and Sheehan were working on a project together that "people will love." Could be separate projects, but the way he worded it it sounded like the same project. Guess we'll see eventually, lol.
Hey, not at all saying you're wrong, just that I read it a different way. And you're 100% right with that last point: we'll find out, won't we!
You will......WHEN HE DECIDES IT'S THE RIGHT GOD DAMN TIME!
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The group has been booked for Cruise to the edge 2018
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1512683518755499&substory_index=0&id=490557914301403 (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1512683518755499&substory_index=0&id=490557914301403)
One final special announcement!
Please welcome Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian and their new super group to Cruise to the Edge 2018!
More details coming soon!
cruisetotheedge.com
#CruiseToTheEdge #CTTE #Prog #Tampa #MikePortnoy #DerekSherinian #FiveDays #GetOnboard YES (official)
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I am not surprised :lol
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The group has been booked for Cruise to the edge 2018
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1512683518755499&substory_index=0&id=490557914301403 (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1512683518755499&substory_index=0&id=490557914301403)
One final special announcement!
Please welcome Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian and their new super group to Cruise to the Edge 2018!
More details coming soon!
cruisetotheedge.com
#CruiseToTheEdge #CTTE #Prog #Tampa #MikePortnoy #DerekSherinian #FiveDays #GetOnboard YES (official)
Of course they are. And the organisation hasn't heard a note of what they're playing, I presume. Wow.
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The group has been booked for Cruise to the edge 2018
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1512683518755499&substory_index=0&id=490557914301403 (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1512683518755499&substory_index=0&id=490557914301403)
One final special announcement!
Please welcome Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian and their new super group to Cruise to the Edge 2018!
More details coming soon!
cruisetotheedge.com
#CruiseToTheEdge #CTTE #Prog #Tampa #MikePortnoy #DerekSherinian #FiveDays #GetOnboard YES (official)
Of course they are. And the organisation hasn't heard a note of what they're playing, I presume. Wow.
So far on cruises MP has brought PSMS, the Yes encore with Jon Anderson, Neal Morse x 2, his two birthday bash sets, and the Chris Squire Tribute. I'm guessing they know they can trust him to pull something off.
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Yeah, I don't get that what you are saying, Elite. If you mean the organizers of the event, I believe Portnoy is one of them, right?
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Yeah, I don't get that what you are saying, Elite. If you mean the organizers of the event, I believe Portnoy is one of them, right?
Not really. On Progressive Nation he obviously was, but he was simply an artist on CTTE 15 and stepped in when Squire died to organize the tribute. On CTTE 17 in conjunction with his birthday bash they allowed him to contribute some names of bands he wanted to play and got them in a kinda merger with Progressive Nation, but he's not in any official place of power within the Cruise to the Edge structure as far as I know.
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Portnoy has reached the point where anything with his name on it will draw an audience. Why wouldn't they want to book a MP/DS project?
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Yep, that Neal Morse Band show here in St. Louis back in January drew like 250 people! That is called being a draw. :P
Nick, I was not aware of that.
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Yep, that Neal Morse Band show here in St. Louis back in January drew like 250 people! That is called being a draw. :P
No offense, but we aren't talking about a random show in a questionable prog market, but rather who has a name that can draw people coming in from all over the world for a special vacation. I know several people on facebook who booked the day Portnoy was announced based on his involvement. His projects and performances have been big draws on these events, and that translates to a worthwhile draw on a new project.
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-says-he-is-not-too-busy-to-rejoin-dream-theater-on-images-words-beyond-tour/
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https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-says-he-is-not-too-busy-to-rejoin-dream-theater-on-images-words-beyond-tour/
"Portnoy went on to say that he has "a very good relationship with John Petrucci and Jordan, and we stay in touch and we remain friends. The other two [singer James LaBrie and bassist John Myung] I've barely heard from. I've tried to reach out. But anyway, I have very fond memories of all those years and it's a huge part of my life."
If that's true, that's a pity. I'd love them all for being on speaking terms, not necessarily for a DT reunion, just for them.
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I'm not at all surprised Myung and Labrie don't talk to him...
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Yeah, I don't get that what you are saying, Elite. If you mean the organizers of the event, I believe Portnoy is one of them, right?
Well, Mike Portnoy had probably earned his merits in the progressive metal world, but can't you at see that it's rather strange that a band of which nobody has heard a single note gets booked on a 'major' prog festival? It's only happening because it's Mike Portnoy and while I expect what he delivers to be good, it's unfair to newer players in the scene. Every other band would have to prove themselves.
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I'm not at all surprised Myung and Labrie don't talk to him...
I've always understood the lack of warm and fuzzys between JLB and MP, but I'm still surprised at how Myung reacted. I've always gotten the sense that he felt betrayed by MP leaving.
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I'm not at all surprised Myung and Labrie don't talk to him...
I've always understood the lack of warm and fuzzys between JLB and MP, but I'm still surprised at how Myung reacted. I've always gotten the sense that he felt betrayed by MP leaving.
Well, therein lies a basis for not talking anymore, right?
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For me, gut feeling of course, the one that felt most betrayed was Petrucci, the other leader of the band, who surely envisioned himself helming DT along with Portnoy until the very last day.
Myung felt more to me distant on a personal level, not liking Portnoy's control of the band and the tailored against him "Bring finished lyrics" rule.
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Yeah, I don't get that what you are saying, Elite. If you mean the organizers of the event, I believe Portnoy is one of them, right?
Well, Mike Portnoy had probably earned his merits in the progressive metal world, but can't you at see that it's rather strange that a band of which nobody has heard a single note gets booked on a 'major' prog festival? It's only happening because it's Mike Portnoy and while I expect what he delivers to be good, it's unfair to newer players in the scene. Every other band would have to prove themselves.
Not really, not when its members have proven themselves already.
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Yeah, I don't get that what you are saying, Elite. If you mean the organizers of the event, I believe Portnoy is one of them, right?
Well, Mike Portnoy had probably earned his merits in the progressive metal world, but can't you at see that it's rather strange that a band of which nobody has heard a single note gets booked on a 'major' prog festival? It's only happening because it's Mike Portnoy and while I expect what he delivers to be good, it's unfair to newer players in the scene. Every other band would have to prove themselves.
Not really, not when its members have proven themselves already.
Yea agreed. MP's Shattered Fortress was named the headliner at ProgPower before we knew anything about the players and the fact it was going to be MP and a performances of TSF. The guys made a reputation for himself and has a fan base. I don't think they need more than that to book him.
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Yup. And that announcement has me considering doing the cruise again next year, between Haken, Thank You Scientist, and now this Portnoy project.
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Yeah, I don't get that what you are saying, Elite. If you mean the organizers of the event, I believe Portnoy is one of them, right?
Well, Mike Portnoy had probably earned his merits in the progressive metal world, but can't you at see that it's rather strange that a band of which nobody has heard a single note gets booked on a 'major' prog festival? It's only happening because it's Mike Portnoy and while I expect what he delivers to be good, it's unfair to newer players in the scene. Every other band would have to prove themselves.
That makes no sense; you say it's "because of Mike Portnoy", but that implies that Mike doesn't have the credibility to merit that. I think he most certainly does. People are interested in what he's doing. Would it be wrong to book Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds without hearing a note, or Keith Richards' Expensive Winos?
And more existentially, who says people have to "be fair to the newer players on the scene"? They book who they want to book.
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Yeah, I don't get that what you are saying, Elite. If you mean the organizers of the event, I believe Portnoy is one of them, right?
Well, Mike Portnoy had probably earned his merits in the progressive metal world, but can't you at see that it's rather strange that a band of which nobody has heard a single note gets booked on a 'major' prog festival? It's only happening because it's Mike Portnoy and while I expect what he delivers to be good, it's unfair to newer players in the scene. Every other band would have to prove themselves.
I agree. MP has been very consistent with his musical output over the years, but he has made some "bad"/not good enough albums/bands. What If you were booking CTTE and heard there's a new Portnoy/Russell Allen project coming. You know MP is a great drummer and had been in DT for 25 years, and Russell is one of the best singers in the genere, the outcome should be great, shouldn't it? Well, here's two words for you: Adrenaline Mob.
Reality is that this just got booked because MP will draw crowds no matter what he does (good or not).
Same happened with Next to None, Mike's son's band. Not saying they're bad or that they don't deserve the recognition they get, I actually like a couple of their songs, but let's be honest here and admit that they only got this big so fast because one of themembers' last name is Portnoy and their debut album had MP producing, and guest spots by Neal Morse and Bumblefoot. Tell me of any other teenage metal band that can get signed to Inside Out and can get Neal Morse to appear for their first album.
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Sometimes its not about what you know, but who you know. Or who you relate to. Whatever, that's life. At the end of the day, MP's new band or his sons band will still need to be able to stand on their own and the music will determine that, not their relationships. But MP's earned the respect and until people lose interest, there's no reason to suggest he and his future band haven't earned a spot at such an event.
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Yeah, I don't get that what you are saying, Elite. If you mean the organizers of the event, I believe Portnoy is one of them, right?
Well, Mike Portnoy had probably earned his merits in the progressive metal world, but can't you at see that it's rather strange that a band of which nobody has heard a single note gets booked on a 'major' prog festival? It's only happening because it's Mike Portnoy and while I expect what he delivers to be good, it's unfair to newer players in the scene. Every other band would have to prove themselves.
I agree. MP has been very consistent with his musical output over the years, but he has made some "bad"/not good enough albums/bands. What If you were booking CTTE and heard there's a new Portnoy/Russell Allen project coming. You know MP is a great drummer and had been in DT for 25 years, and Russell is one of the best singers in the genere, the outcome should be great, shouldn't it? Well, here's two words for you: Adrenaline Mob.
Reality is that this just got booked because MP will draw crowds no matter what he does (good or not).
Same happened with Next to None, Mike's son's band. Not saying they're bad or that they don't deserve the recognition they get, I actually like a couple of their songs, but let's be honest here and admit that they only got this big so fast because one of themembers' last name is Portnoy and their debut album had MP producing, and guest spots by Neal Morse and Bumblefoot. Tell me of any other teenage metal band that can get signed to Inside Out and can get Neal Morse to appear for their first album.
But "good" is subjective; personally, I think all his output post DT is excellent EXCEPT for Adrenaline Mob, and it's not prog. You wouldn't book him for AMob on a prog show. You might a metal show, and in that context, who's to say it's "bad"? The same fans that listen to Neal Morse solo stuff are possibly not listening to Mike in Twisted Sister, either.
As for the latter, well, it's not as if "Portnoy" is the first one to have this happen to them. Do you think Sean Lennon or Julian Lennon haven't gotten some benefit of the doubt? This is not a new phenomenon.
Lemme turn this around a little bit: you're a promoter. You've got $35,000 to book a band, and you have 4,000 tickets to sell. You don't sell at least 3,000, you're underwater, and you can't pay the bands on the bill and the support crew. You get two calls from band managers: one is for "Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress" and the other is for "Johnny Penis and the Erections". Which do you hire? Even if the known name results in 50 more tickets, it's still that much less you are at risk. I'm more bugged not by Portnoy's name recognition, but by these packaged tours that have Great White, Warrant, Quiet Riot and Ratt, and there isn't one original singer on the bill. it's the same phenomena, though; the promoter, with hard money on the line, has to put bodies in the venue, and if having a recognizable name does that, so be it.
(And to your point about newer bands, likely affords them MORE opportunity as openers than if there was no show at all.)
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Lemme turn this around a little bit: you're a promoter. You've got $35,000 to book a band, and you have 4,000 tickets to sell. You don't sell at least 3,000, you're underwater, and you can't pay the bands on the bill and the support crew. You get two calls from band managers: one is for "Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress" and the other is for "Johnny Penis and the Erections". Which do you hire?
I don't know. Is the venue on or near a college campus?
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Lemme turn this around a little bit: you're a promoter. You've got $35,000 to book a band, and you have 4,000 tickets to sell. You don't sell at least 3,000, you're underwater, and you can't pay the bands on the bill and the support crew. You get two calls from band managers: one is for "Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress" and the other is for "Johnny Penis and the Erections". Which do you hire?
You book the one with um...growth potential.
:neverusethis:
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Lemme turn this around a little bit: you're a promoter. You've got $35,000 to book a band, and you have 4,000 tickets to sell. You don't sell at least 3,000, you're underwater, and you can't pay the bands on the bill and the support crew. You get two calls from band managers: one is for "Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress" and the other is for "Johnny Penis and the Erections". Which do you hire?
I don't know. Is the venue on or near a college campus?
Don't worry about Boston, it's not a big college town.
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Lemme turn this around a little bit: you're a promoter. You've got $35,000 to book a band, and you have 4,000 tickets to sell. You don't sell at least 3,000, you're underwater, and you can't pay the bands on the bill and the support crew. You get two calls from band managers: one is for "Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress" and the other is for "Johnny Penis and the Erections". Which do you hire?
I don't know. Is the venue on or near a college campus?
Don't worry about Boston, it's not a big college town.
Any Spinal Tap reference is a good Spinal Tap reference, if you ask me.
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Lemme turn this around a little bit: you're a promoter. You've got $35,000 to book a band, and you have 4,000 tickets to sell. You don't sell at least 3,000, you're underwater, and you can't pay the bands on the bill and the support crew. You get two calls from band managers: one is for "Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress" and the other is for "Johnny Penis and the Erections". Which do you hire?
I don't know. Is the venue on or near a college campus?
Don't worry about Boston, it's not a big college town.
Any Spinal Tap reference is a good Spinal Tap reference, if you ask me.
:rollin I was just watching this last night, great line
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He should just call it Supergroup and be done with it.
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MPS, and start enumerating them.
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'I will no longer play Dream Theater songs'. (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_portnoy_i_will_no_longer_play_dream_theater_songs.html)
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I don't know if I believe that he won't play DT songs. Whether he does or not doesn't really matter to me. It's good he is busy with other stuff though.
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Yeah we were taking about that quote in the Shattered Fortress show thread. Like I said there, my assumption is that he means he won't put together another project to specifically cover DT, but he will still play DT songs with other projects like FC or whatever.
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Yeah we were taking about that quote in the Shattered Fortress show thread. Like I said there, my assumption is that he means he won't put together another project to specifically cover DT, but he will still play DT songs with other projects like FC or whatever.
Yeah, there's no way MP is going to do a prog metal group and not play a few DT songs. I am with you -- he won't do a show solely comprised of DT material again is likely what he meant.
I fully expect this new prog metal group to play its entire new record (on headline shows) with a few covers, including select Dream Theater songs.
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^For sure.
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I suspect that what others have said will happen is right. But as far as what he "meant," I'm not sure he specifically meant anything. That quote was taken from a larger interview, and he just made that comment off the cuff in the context of making a completely different point. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a spur of the moment thing that slipped out of his mouth without him thinking through what he was saying.
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I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a spur of the moment thing that slipped out of his mouth without him thinking through what he was saying.
I always thought MP was someone who was not loose and fast with what they said, as he is someone who is well aware of how words can be taken out of context.
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:lol
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And any slip of the tongue can be easily corrected lickety split with furious backpedalling and a smiley face.
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???
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::)
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'I will no longer play Dream Theater songs'. (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_portnoy_i_will_no_longer_play_dream_theater_songs.html)
Good for him.
I don't expect (or even want at this point) to hear anything by Dream Theater from him again.
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I don't think Portnoy needs to play DT anymore. Dude has built up an insane resume since leaving and really can just do that stuff and new stuff for the rest of his life.
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The closest thing to DT I wanna hear him play is Derek's "Lines In The Sand" solo (that evolved into the intro to LitS.
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From MP Facebook:
I'm in serious multi-tasking mode right now: Jerry & I are recording/comping drums for the new Metal Allegiance album as well as my vocals & percussion for my upcoming album w Derek Sherinian...meanwhile Derek & our singer are in LA doing the singer's tracks and sending me the tracks for notes...
Kinda expected, but now is confirmed that this won't be an instrumental band.
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Quick, someone check Derek's tech's twitter account for clues :lol :lol
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From MP Facebook:
I'm in serious multi-tasking mode right now: Jerry & I are recording/comping drums for the new Metal Allegiance album as well as my vocals & percussion for my upcoming album w Derek Sherinian...meanwhile Derek & our singer are in LA doing the singer's tracks and sending me the tracks for notes...
Kinda expected, but now is confirmed that this won't be an instrumental band.
Now people are going to start looking for clues on who might be the singer, something will probably get leaked and Mike will go nuts on social media again...
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From MP Facebook:
I'm in serious multi-tasking mode right now: Jerry & I are recording/comping drums for the new Metal Allegiance album as well as my vocals & percussion for my upcoming album w Derek Sherinian...meanwhile Derek & our singer are in LA doing the singer's tracks and sending me the tracks for notes...
Kinda expected, but now is confirmed that this won't be an instrumental band.
Now people are going to start looking for clues on who might be the singer, something will probably get leaked and Mike will go nuts on social media again...
IT'S THE CIRCLE OF SOCIAL MEDIA, AND IT MOVES US ALLLLLLLLL.
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I commented on his post with "Singer? This means it's confirmed to NOT be an instrumental band? Sweet!"
And Mike liked my comment.
So it IS confirmed. Because if not, he would have threatened to block me or something :lol
*Crossing fingers for Ted Leonard*
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Take turns posting names, whoever gets blocked got it right. :lol
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Take turns posting names, whoever gets blocked got it right. :lol
:lol
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Take turns posting names, whoever gets blocked got it right. :lol
:lol
:rollin
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From MP Facebook:
I'm in serious multi-tasking mode right now: Jerry & I are recording/comping drums for the new Metal Allegiance album as well as my vocals & percussion for my upcoming album w Derek Sherinian...meanwhile Derek & our singer are in LA doing the singer's tracks and sending me the tracks for notes...
For being the "band leader" that is a somewhat uninvolved way of having the vocals recorded.
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From MP Facebook:
I'm in serious multi-tasking mode right now: Jerry & I are recording/comping drums for the new Metal Allegiance album as well as my vocals & percussion for my upcoming album w Derek Sherinian...meanwhile Derek & our singer are in LA doing the singer's tracks and sending me the tracks for notes...
For being the "band leader" that is a somewhat uninvolved way of having the vocals recorded.
I kind of see this as a joint project between Mike and Derek.
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From MP Facebook:
I'm in serious multi-tasking mode right now: Jerry & I are recording/comping drums for the new Metal Allegiance album as well as my vocals & percussion for my upcoming album w Derek Sherinian...meanwhile Derek & our singer are in LA doing the singer's tracks and sending me the tracks for notes...
For being the "band leader" that is a somewhat uninvolved way of having the vocals recorded.
It's logistical. Petrucci and Rudess are the leaders of DT, but for the past few albums (not sure about TA) neither are there when the vocals are recorded. They do it the same way. LaBrie records and then sends it to them for notes.
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From MP Facebook:
I'm in serious multi-tasking mode right now: Jerry & I are recording/comping drums for the new Metal Allegiance album as well as my vocals & percussion for my upcoming album w Derek Sherinian...meanwhile Derek & our singer are in LA doing the singer's tracks and sending me the tracks for notes...
For being the "band leader" that is a somewhat uninvolved way of having the vocals recorded.
It's logistical. Petrucci and Rudess are the leaders of DT, but for the past few albums (not sure about TA) neither are there when the vocals are recorded. They do it the same way. LaBrie records and then sends it to them for notes.
For TA they did, DT12 they didn't, and ADTOE they did for about half the songs.
Mike has been clear that he is the leader of this project. Giving notes from across the country is no substitute for being there.
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Like I said man, sometimes it's logistics. Leader or not, it's possible they just can't be in the same place at the same time. Clearly Mike is pretty busy in NY at the moment, and whoever the singer is, maybe this is the only time he could record vocals but only in LA.
It happens. Being a leader doesn't make schedules automatically line up.
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Like I said man, sometimes it's logistics. Leader or not, it's possible they just can't be in the same place at the same time. Clearly Mike is pretty busy in NY at the moment, and whoever the singer is, maybe this is the only time he could record vocals but only in LA.
It happens. Being a leader doesn't make schedules automatically line up.
Yeah. Pretty sure people consider Jim Matheos the leader of Fates Warning, but he's never in the same place as Ray Alder during recording. It's just how it goes with some bands.
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Some fans simply choose to find fault in everything Mike does...
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I hear Portnoy pours the milk before the cereal.
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Take turns posting names, whoever gets blocked got it right. :lol
:lol
:rollin
:rollin :rollin :rollin
*Crossing fingers for Ted Leonard*
Ted would be a great choice! However, I think SB is working on a new album for this year, and he's also in a couple other bands (Enchant and Thought Chamber), so I don't think that leaves him too much free time to join MP's crazy project.
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I'm thinking it's a guy who peaked in the 80's or 90's. Just a hunch.
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Kip Winger?
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Kip Winger?
Woah. That was literally the guy I imagined.
Did I read about it somewhere and just forgot?
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Some fans simply choose to find fault in everything Mike does...
Oh here we go...
Remember when I posted a rant about how Mike likes Twin Peaks?! I can't STAND that he *likes* TWIN PEAKS. I despise him for it. I suggest you find my thread "Can Mike just stop liking Twin Peaks?!?1?" and post your thoughts. He's been posting a lot about that. The nerve.
I hope you don't think I'm being sarcastic. I literally find fault in everything he does.
I even found fault in your post. Let me fix it for you. Some "fans" simply choose to find fault in everything Mike does...
So anyway, yeah it's logistics but if he wants us (or rather me) to take this project seriously then I would hope he would make it more of a priority which is what I thought he was doing by insisting he be the band leader. I mean his tantrum about us guessing Bumblefoot was the guitarist was pretty bad and left a bad taste but if the music is good then the musics good. Now it just sort of seems like this is just another little project to check off rather than to let the band happen the more organic way.
Oh wait, I'm supposed to find fault in everything he does.
HOW DARE HE PUT TOGETHER A PROGRESSIVE METAL GROUP (that I was actually kind of excited for)?
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Dude, I know that the whole point of joining a forum is to discuss things, but I just don't have the time or energy to argue with you on this. Go for it...
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I honestly don't see the problem in being a band leader versus having things done over the internet. This is the way the world works now. It would all be nice and cool to have band members being a surrogate family hanging out together jamming all the time, but it's simply not possibile with other commitments, families and maybe some side-job for people who don't live only off their music. If Dream Theater can record an album with the singer in literally another country on his own, Portnoy can have the singer record with the keyboard player as well.
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I think it's patently unfair to criticize Mike for "being the bandleader" and "not being there in person while the vocals are being recorded". One, it's 2017. I largely work out of my house, and have no problem being "present" with the things I do in my company. Two, you have NO idea what was discussed previously with Derek and/or "The Singer", and what direction was given. Three, you don't even KNOW The Singer, and have no idea what direction might be needed. Four, it's not your fucking band. Mike pretty much has shown us he knows how to run a band - at least to his liking and the liking of a few million fans - so I'm going to trust his judgment over someone posting their thoughts and ideas while wearing pajamas and sucking a juice box in their mom's basement. (Of course I'm being funny with the last thing, but still...)
REALLY excited for this (and would love it if it was Kip Winger; that's the only wild card; the singer could chill this for me if it is too much on the "metal" side of "prog metal").
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I would love it to be Kip Winger too, if only to watch Tim's reaction to this.
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My guesses:
John Arch
Jeff Scott Soto
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Very excited for this one, more so than any other post DT band because it puts him back in his core element. Everything hinges on who
the vocalist is. I know I will love MP and DS on this as I always do. If it turns out to be a really kick ass singer it could be amazing.
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Dude, I know that the whole point of joining a forum is to discuss things, but I just don't have the time or energy to argue with you on this. Go for it...
:lol
I think it's patently unfair to criticize Mike for "being the bandleader" and "not being there in person while the vocals are being recorded".
What a surprise.
One, it's 2017. I largely work out of my house, and have no problem being "present" with the things I do in my company. Two, you have NO idea what was discussed previously with Derek and/or "The Singer", and what direction was given. Three, you don't even KNOW The Singer, and have no idea what direction might be needed. Four, it's not your fucking band.
:lol :lol :lol
Wow, that's your argument?
Shut down the forums! I just figured out it's not my band...or anyone else's band that posts here. I guess there's no point in posting. I honestly don't see the problem in being a band leader versus having things done over the internet. This is the way the world works now. It would all be nice and cool to have band members being a surrogate family hanging out together jamming all the time, but it's simply not possibile with other commitments, families and maybe some side-job for people who don't live only off their music. If Dream Theater can record an album with the singer in literally another country on his own, Portnoy can have the singer record with the keyboard player as well.
MirrorMask, thank you for having a constructive argument. It's nice to see one of those occasionally on this forum.
I think there is a HUGE difference between having James record his vocals in Canada and what Mike is doing. First of all, James did that as a strategy. He felt he records his vocals better in a small setting with just him and Richard Chycki. For ADTOE he basically said, "Hey we're starting over in several ways. Let me do this how I want." For DT12, he recorded them in New York since Richard Chycki was producing them. TA was a different beast and James said that with all the different voices, emotions, etc., he wanted to record them with just him and Richard again.
If this was the strategy with Mike, I would respect that. As it stands, it really just seems like he couldn't fit it into his schedule like it wasn't a top priority. It reminds me of when those tribute CD were coming out every few weeks. You would have someone like Kip Winger on vocals, Brad Gillis on guitar, Rex Brown on bass, and Eric Singer on drums. They would do a tribute to Ozzy or something yet they never met each other in person. It was still cool and I still own way too many of those tribute CDs but they weren't organic and it really was just a gimmick. Obviously Mike's project isn't that inorganic but by doing this he is approaching that level. Maybe not all that close but still just a step closer than I am comfortable with.
My guesses:
John Arch
Jeff Scott Soto
Man, if it was John Arch that would be a game changer.
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Well, since we know nothing yet about the singer, maybe this schedule is worked around him - maybe Mike would have wanted to sit all together, but the singer had other and previous commitments and this was done to accomodate him. We don't know how old is Mike's idea to put together this group, and if the other parties involved had even older, and previous, commitments.
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Well, since we know nothing yet about the singer, maybe this schedule is worked around him - maybe Mike would have wanted to sit all together, but the singer had other and previous commitments and this was done to accomodate him. We don't know how old is Mike's idea to put together this group, and if the other parties involved had even older, and previous, commitments.
Right, I'm not saying that Mike intentionally chose to do it this way but has too many other things going on to devote fully to the project he says he is the leader of. If John Petrucci had James record vocals in Canada because he was too busy opening a new BBQ restaurant, then I would have the same feelings toward Petrucci (although I would plan a trip to NY for the grand opening).
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Isn't Arch still an East Coast guy? If so, I'd figure he'd record in NY, no?
I think him not being there is a non issue. My feeling is that after an album and some shows, we'll be lucky to get a second album anyway.
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I think him not being there is a non issue. My feeling is that after an album and some shows, we'll be lucky to get a second album anyway.
Probably true. I agree that it's no biggie that he isn't there for the vocal recordings, but I do find it surprising. After he made a big deal about telling people he was a "bandleader" again, I thought he would insist on being present for stuff like this. I mean, the reason James didn't record in Canada before was MP (if I'm not mistaken) so while I don't think it matters at all, I'm still surprised.
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Very excited for this one, more so than any other post DT band because it puts him back in his core element. Everything hinges on who
the vocalist is. I know I will love MP and DS on this as I always do. If it turns out to be a really kick ass singer it could be amazing.
Sincerely I believe that, after MP left DT, he entered in a kind of mourning with progressive metal. I think that a band in that style is really the perfect outfit to let flow all his musical influences. Maybe, after he started to revist the DT material for his birthday's shows, he had realised that it was alredy enough time to had stayed away of it. I believe, if this band will be well suceeded commercially, of course, it will his primary band, in the same proportion it was with DT.
About the vocals, I think both Kip Winger or Jeff Scott Soto would be amazing! Maybe JSS is more avaible?
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While I have not asked him about this, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the role MP plays is similar to what he did in DT - more that of a creative director - and leaving such things as the business end, the sonic qualities and whatnot to Derek, much as JP handled those things in DT. It would make sense given how things worked in DT, how MP is not interested in the business side of things, how Derek was more responsible for the business end of the ProgNation 2014 at Sea (can't remember where I heard/saw that, but it's not just speculation on my part) and how MP has so much else going on in his life. So is it the end of the world that he's not there to do the recording with the singer? Not at all - at least Derek is with this person, and you can be sure that MP is receiving MP3s of the recordings to comment on and approve.
From my dealings with him in designing the tourbooks, T-shirts, CD artwork and a poster, he is *very* hands on and involved in even minute details, even tho everything was done via e-mail. I'm pretty sure if you asked Blob or BobS (who is heavily involved in post-production/editing of many MP-related videos), they'd tell you the same thing. Given that this is far more involved than what I did, you can be sure that this is nothing like musicians simply recording their performances and Fed-Ex'ing it to the next studio like all those tribute albums were, which it should be noted MP was never a fan of in the first place.
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While I like Arch I think he is a big risk as far as mass appeal. There are people like me who like him and many who don't so right away
you lose potential with him. He also sounds so unique that it would be hard NOT to compare everything to Fates or Arch-Matheos.
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It's not Arch. Just saw a pic of him and Alder from yesterday on the East Coast. So I highly doubt it's Arch.
But JSS...
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Arch would be a deal breaker for me. He might be a very good singer, but I can't stand his voice, that's why I could never get into the first 3 FW albums or the Arch/Matheos album.
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I think we are all missing the obvious:
The singer will be Kevin Moore.
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I also kind of doubt John Arch would take on a new project based on the general vibe I get from him. I suppose if there wasn't much touring involved, since it's pretty well known that he's not one for being on the road all the time.
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I think we are all missing the obvious:
The singer will be Kevin Moore.
Hey, don't diss that. I happen to like his vocals!
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How was that a diss? ???
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Just checked Twitter for clues on who might be the singer. Well, two of the last people Jeff Scott Soto followed are Derek Sherinian and Bumblefoot. Coincindence? Someone just ask MP about it, and his reaction will answer for us :biggrin:
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Just checked Twitter for clues on who might be the singer. Well, two of the last people Jeff Scott Soto followed are Derek Sherinian and Bumblefoot. Coincindence? Someone just ask MP about it, and his reaction will answer for us :biggrin:
Outed by Twitter. It's incredible how today's interconnected world leaves basically no mystery at all!
Sometimes on FB I realize small bands I follow will take part at a concert or a festival, because I have a band member in the friends list and they confirm the partecipation to that event ;D
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I would be VERY happy with JSS on vocals!!!
I hope it's true.
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Just checked Twitter for clues on who might be the singer. Well, two of the last people Jeff Scott Soto followed are Derek Sherinian and Bumblefoot. Coincindence? Someone just ask MP about it, and his reaction will answer for us :biggrin:
Outed by Twitter. It's incredible how today's interconnected world leaves basically no mystery at all!
Sometimes on FB I realize small bands I follow will take part at a concert or a festival, because I have a band member in the friends list and they confirm the partecipation to that event ;D
If only Mike understood this the way you do... :lol
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Speaking of Derek Sherinian, at some point he blocked me on Twitter. I can't say I ever even interacted directly with him.
:facepalm:
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I would be VERY happy with JSS on vocals!!!
I hope it's true.
this.
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I'd never heard Jeff Scott Soto or John Arch sing before the last few posts so I checked out both. I have to say it was pure aural bliss when I turned off Arch's singing. Soto sounds better.
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Mike wrote this on his message board:
"There's a reason I post WHAT I post WHEN I post it...
Don't you think if I wanted the guitar player announced, I would've done it???
I appreciate your enthusiasm here, but please respect my wishes to only disclose certain things when *I* want that info disclosed and announced
How on Earth can that be misunderstood or misinterpreted in any way...it would seem pretty obvious to me "
So, doesn't look like the leaks are intentional. Not the best way to handle that sort of thing. Then again, if you're gonna hype this thing, why not just tell us who is in the band? Or just keep it secret you're even working on something.
Whatever you think of Portnoy he is the greatest rock/metal drummer ever IMO.
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Mike wrote this on his message board:
"There's a reason I post WHAT I post WHEN I post it...
Don't you think if I wanted the guitar player announced, I would've done it???
I appreciate your enthusiasm here, but please respect my wishes to only disclose certain things when *I* want that info disclosed and announced
How on Earth can that be misunderstood or misinterpreted in any way...it would seem pretty obvious to me "
So, doesn't look like the leaks are intentional. Not the best way to handle that sort of thing. Then again, if you're gonna hype this thing, why not just tell us who is in the band? Or just keep it secret you're even working on something.
Whatever you think of Portnoy he is the greatest rock/metal drummer ever IMO.
Stadler?
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Mike wrote this on his message board:
"There's a reason I post WHAT I post WHEN I post it...
Don't you think if I wanted the guitar player announced, I would've done it???
I appreciate your enthusiasm here, but please respect my wishes to only disclose certain things when *I* want that info disclosed and announced
How on Earth can that be misunderstood or misinterpreted in any way...it would seem pretty obvious to me "
So, doesn't look like the leaks are intentional. Not the best way to handle that sort of thing. Then again, if you're gonna hype this thing, why not just tell us who is in the band? Or just keep it secret you're even working on something.
Whatever you think of Portnoy he is the greatest rock/metal drummer ever IMO.
Stadler?
:rollin
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Haha no. But good guess. :)
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Haha no. But good guess. :)
Just kidding bud! :biggrin:
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Soto toured in support of The Winery Dogs, so the connection is there. You guys might be on to something!
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Soto toured in support of The Winery Dogs, so the connection is there. You guys might be on to something!
I know this is waaay off topic, but are TWD still active? At first, Portnoy always mentioned it was going yo be his main thing, and now they seem to have disappeared. I'm not a fan of the band, so I haven't been following them too much, but I'm curious to know.
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Soto toured in support of The Winery Dogs, so the connection is there. You guys might be on to something!
I know this is waaay off topic, but are TWD still active? At first, Portnoy always mentioned it was going yo be his main thing, and now they seem to have disappeared. I'm not a fan of the band, so I haven't been following them too much, but I'm curious to know.
I think they are still active, just in between cycles right now. Billy is doing Mr. Big stuff, MP is doing a million things and Richie is probably doing solo stuff.
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Soto toured in support of The Winery Dogs, so the connection is there. You guys might be on to something!
I know this is waaay off topic, but are TWD still active? At first, Portnoy always mentioned it was going yo be his main thing, and now they seem to have disappeared. I'm not a fan of the band, so I haven't been following them too much, but I'm curious to know.
I think they are still active, just in between cycles right now. Billy is doing Mr. Big stuff, MP is doing a million things and Richie is probably doing solo stuff.
^Yeah, that's basically what MP said. They aren't inactive. Just not doing anything together at the present because each of the members is busy doing something else. Can't be bothered to find the exact quote, but that's the gist of it as I recall.
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"We aren't inactive, we just aren't actively doing anything."
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If it's JSS I'm seriously underwhelmed but still hope something good comes out of it.
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This is the downside of keeping it a big secret for such a long time. The fans will start speculating, and it's very unlikely that the eventual reality will be as good as our fantasies.
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If it's JSS I'm seriously underwhelmed but still hope something good comes out of it.
I'd agree with this. I think Jeff has a great hard rock/metal voice, but none of his tunes have ever really grabbed me unless Marky Mark was lip syncing them.
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I was thinking about this, and when MP teases an unknown band member, he has to know that he is just baiting the fans to investigate. The "fan experience" today is a lot different then when MP was a kid. He has to learn this.
What he should do is embrace it, and award a free Meet & Greet (or whatever) to the first guy on his forum to figure it out. I think that would be a lot cooler way of handling it.
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I was thinking about this, and when MP teases an unknown band member, he has to know that he is just baiting the fans to investigate. The "fan experience" today is a lot different then when MP was a kid. He has to learn this.
What he should do is embrace it, and award a free Meet & Greet (or whatever) to the first guy on his forum to figure it out. I think that would be a lot cooler way of handling it.
Reported.
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If it's JSS I'm seriously underwhelmed but still hope something good comes out of it.
I'd agree with this. I think Jeff has a great hard rock/metal voice, but none of his tunes have ever really grabbed me unless Marky Mark was lip syncing them.
I agree, but, hopefully, he won't be one of the main composers of the music, probably just the vocal lines and the lyrics.
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I was thinking about this, and when MP teases an unknown band member, he has to know that he is just baiting the fans to investigate. The "fan experience" today is a lot different then when MP was a kid. He has to learn this.
What he should do is embrace it, and award a free Meet & Greet (or whatever) to the first guy on his forum to figure it out. I think that would be a lot cooler way of handling it.
Reported.
:lol
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I just went on youtube to look up this Jeff guy.... "If" he is the singer (and I realize it's a big "if"), it just isn't screaming "prog metal supergroup" so far. If Bumblefoot is in also, it just seems more like a washed up hard rock band musicians thing.
Who's going to be writing the prog epics???!!! That to me is the important piece of the equation.
edit: not that he's a bad singer, I just am not getting a prog metal supergroup vibe. I'm not assuming yet at this point we know whos in the band, I am purely commenting on the latest rumors.
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If it's JSS I'm seriously underwhelmed but still hope something good comes out of it.
I'd agree with this. I think Jeff has a great hard rock/metal voice, but none of his tunes have ever really grabbed me unless Marky Mark was lip syncing them.
ok, I didn't realize he was one of the voices behind Marky Mark. But I actually got a bit excited because I have a guilty pleasure for the song We All Die Young from the terrible film Rock Star. Then I realized he wasn't the dude in Steelheart but rather the voice of the worst most annoying song from that soundtrack called Stand Up and Shout (not the Dio version unfortunately).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVBNK6mXQKc
So even though the dude unquestionably has a great voice, I have an extreme bias against him for this song alone. It also doesn't help that my town's minor league hockey team plays this about 32 times every game.
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Did MP specifically say that this project was a return to prog metal?
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Did MP specifically say that this project was a return to prog metal?
I believe so. I mean, it shouldn't be discounted if it is Soto. Afterall, LaBrie was in a glam band called Winter Rose before DT and Charlie Dominici was in Frankie & the Knockouts.
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Did MP specifically say that this project was a return to prog metal?
I believe so. I mean, it shouldn't be discounted if it is Soto. Afterall, LaBrie was in a glam band called Winter Rose before DT and Charlie Dominici was in Frankie & the Knockouts.
If he did, then cool. If not, it would suck if everyone built this up as a huge return to intense prog metal when it just ends up being fun glam rock or something.
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Did MP specifically say that this project was a return to prog metal?
I believe so. I mean, it shouldn't be discounted if it is Soto. Afterall, LaBrie was in a glam band called Winter Rose before DT and Charlie Dominici was in Frankie & the Knockouts.
If he did, then cool. If not, it would suck if everyone built this up as a huge return to intense prog metal when it just ends up being fun glam rock or something.
Well, I don't think he has checked off glam rock from his master list so maybe John Arch turned him down and he went with plan B ;)
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For a 51 year old dude, I felt that Stand Up And Shout rendition was *very* respectable.
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For a 51 year old dude, I felt that Stand Up And Shout rendition was *very* respectable.
Not disputing his skill at all. I just hate the song. Don't particularly care for *how* he sings that song but I think that has more to do with the song just being terrible rather than how he chose to emote. Definitely willing to give him a chance.
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Did MP specifically say that this project was a return to prog metal?
It's in MP Facebook on 03/01/17:
Hmmmm....what have we here??
I'm in LA recording an album with something NEW...
Sorry, this is all you're gonna get outta me on this for a while...More will be revealed at a later date...stay tuned!
#ProgMetalSupergroup Coming soon... 😎
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Poor guy backed himself into a corner.
Sadly DS is way more technically complex than MP is. So either they do prog light, generic prog, or not super prog and fans get pissed.
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We don't need Sherlock Holmes to figure this out guys.
It's in MP Facebook on 03/01/17:
Hmmmm....what have we here??
I'm in LA recording an album with something NEW...
Sorry, this is all you're gonna get outta me on this for a while...More will be revealed at a later date...stay tuned!
#ProgMetalSupergroup Coming soon... 😎
(https://www.oocities.org/dream_theater_tod/dtkmpic.jpg)
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if John Arch happened to be the singer, the potential for this project goes up a lot for me.
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Was soo exited when MP announced he was working on a new Prog Metal supergroup.
Now I think it was just trying to hype with what his fans wants to hear.
I would think that Prog Metal supergroup would be consisting of well known artists from within the Prog Metal scene....
If it is Bumblefoot and Jeff Scott Soto then to my eyes it would be only half of a prog metal supergroup.
Would much rather see Arch as the singer.. would give it more credibility in my eyes
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Was soo exited when MP announced he was working on a new Prog Metal supergroup.
Now I think it was just trying to hype with what his fans wants to hear.
I would think that Prog Metal supergroup would be consisting of well known artists from within the Prog Metal scene....
If it is Bumblefoot and Jeff Scott Soto then to my eyes it would be only half of a prog metal supergroup.
Would much rather see Arch as the singer.. would give it more credibility in my eyes
Depends on how you interpret the term. They are a supergroup that plays prog metal, so prog metal supergroup is an apt description in my view. For example, The Night Flight Orchestra is called a classic (prog)rock supergroup, but it's members are from relatively modern metal bands (notably Arch Enemy and Soilwork).
Anyways, if they are good musicians capable of playing the genre, I don't care what their genre was or how people label them.
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I think this (rumored) lineup has the potential to make great prog metal music, it could be a good surprise for most of us. However, Portnoy's "hype the crap out of it" strategy doesn't always end up working well, so we'll have to wait and see. Also, we have absolutely no clues on who might be the bassist. I really hope it's not Billy Sheehan again.
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Keep in mind this "rumored" lineup that includes JSS is based on a loose theory right now. Not saying people didn't hit the nail on the head, but I don't think we can say with any degree of certainty that a few twitter follows is a solid indication. I just think JSS is now more likely than random guess X.
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I'd like to clarify something. When I posted about JSS being my guess, that's all it was. Rumors start in wild ways, and that's part of what communities are like this are for -- speculation. But in case this rumor was "started" by me, honest to goodness, I was just trying to think of who lives in LA that makes sense.
If I'm one of a bunch of guys to suggest JSS, then cool, but if this is all stemming from my comment, I apologize. I was just doing normal message board speculation. :)
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Was soo exited when MP announced he was working on a new Prog Metal supergroup.
Now I think it was just trying to hype with what his fans wants to hear.
I would think that Prog Metal supergroup would be consisting of well known artists from within the Prog Metal scene....
If it is Bumblefoot and Jeff Scott Soto then to my eyes it would be only half of a prog metal supergroup.
Would much rather see Arch as the singer.. would give it more credibility in my eyes
Depends on how you interpret the term. They are a supergroup that plays prog metal, so prog metal supergroup is an apt description in my view.
Exactly what I was thinking when I read Swedish Goose's post.
But please, please, please, no John Arch. That guy's vocals are like nails on a chalkboard and then some! However, due to JA's lack of interest in touring, I don't see him being the vocalist. My only other fear is that whoever MP has chosen also will include cookie-monster vocals which I absolutely abhor. Could completely ruin what would otherwise be the most exciting thing he's done since leaving DT.
I really hope it's not Billy Sheehan again.
Given that Billy's completely in deep with Mr. Big right now, I highly doubt he's involved with this project. I haven't a clue as to who the bassist could be, but one that comes to mind that (I believe) isn't doing much right now is Jason Newsted. IIRC, MP's expressed interest in working with him in the past, so he's a possibility, even if he doesn't have a "prog" background.
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I haven't a clue as to who the bassist could be, but one that comes to mind that (I believe) isn't doing much right now is Jason Newsted. IIRC, MP's expressed interest in working with him in the past, so he's a possibility, even if he doesn't have a "prog" background.
That'd be cool.
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MP just posted this blurb in a response to one of his posts on FB (taken from his latest Rhythm magazine cover story):
I have a new band I'll be announcing in the summer. It is premature to give away too much information about that now but I can say that it also involves Derek Sherinian who I worked with in Dream Theater. It is the two of us with an all-star line-up. It is myself and Derek getting back together and picking up where we left off. It's music that is probably closest to Dream Theater out of everything that I have done over the last six years. I have purposefully stayed away from the prog-metal genre because I wanted to spread my wings. But I would say that doing these Shattered Fortress shows has kind of reignited a little interest in revisiting that world from me. Derek and I have formed this new band that will satisfy myself and quench the fans' thirst for something in that vein.
Incidentally, it's interesting to note that the main post that this blurb was posted within was about how he had a busy week working on both this and the next Metal Allegiance album, and one of the people who posted a response was JSS. That could just be coincidence - at this point I wouldn't read too much into it. Oh and JSS' response was just simply "The man who never sleeps"
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2018: Mike Portnoy covers SFAM live, world tour :corn
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2018: Mike Portnoy covers SFAM live, world tour :corn
I highly doubt that.
Though he could always do that as a 'cash grab', but I don't think he needs do, nor does he want to.
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If at all, it would be 2019, the 20th anniversary ;D
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So are we all just assuming that Bumblefoot is the guitarist? I for one am hoping that isn't the case. I for one am hoping it's Eric Gillette.
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I love how he puts it, "me and Derek picking up where we left off".
Yeah, when you kicked him out of the band!!
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I love how he puts it, "me and Derek picking up where we left off".
Yeah, when you kicked him out of the band!!
I assume MP meant the last time they did something together, which was PSMS...
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I love how he puts it, "me and Derek picking up where we left off".
Yeah, when you kicked him out of the band!!
:lol Yeah, pretty much that. If you watch the Score documentary, it's Mike himself who says something like "Derek is great, but he had to go in order for us to grow, he wasn't the best fit for DT." (I'm paraphrasing here, there were not his exact words).
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Derek and MP have played together in WDADR, formed PSMS and toured together...nothing wrong with reconciling with a former colleague.
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So are we all just assuming that Bumblefoot is the guitarist? I for one am hoping that isn't the case. I for one am hoping it's Eric Gillette.
Well, judging by the video screen capture that someone made before it was removed, the evidence speaks for itself until otherwise proven wrong. So I think it's safe to assume :biggrin: that most are assuming Bumblefoot is the guitarist.
I assume MP meant the last time they did something together, which was PSMS...
Being that PSMS never created any original material, I'm gonna guess that is not what he meant. He probably meant where they left off post-FII. Derek was well aware of the plans to convert Metropolis part II into a full-blown album, and so was in that mindset when he was let go.
I love how he puts it, "me and Derek picking up where we left off".
Yeah, when you kicked him out of the band!!
:lol Yeah, pretty much that. If you watch the Score documentary, it's Mike himself who says something like "Derek is great, but he had to go in order for us to grow, he wasn't the best fit for DT." (I'm paraphrasing here, there were not his exact words).
Ha! Well, MP has never shied away from say that Derek wasn't the best fit for DT - even after MP himself left DT, he has still said the same thing. But given the parameters that DT wanted to work within, that's their choice. I don't necessarily agree, as I really love what Derek brought to the table (aside from his overuse of the Hammond organ patch), but when you compare the 3 keyboardists of DT, there's more of a difference stylistically between him and the other two, than if you were to compare Kev and JR. Kev and JR were both influenced by other keyboardists; Derek, OTOH was probably as influenced by a variety of guitarists as he was keyboardists.
That said, I am really looking forward to see what they put together now that they can develop their own band/sound from the ground up without having to follow what came before.
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Maybe not too much people here remember this, but IIRC, Derek was the othrer guy behind PN at sea 2014, so him and MP have already worked on quite a few things the last couple of years.
Also, even though I can't stand MP anymore (as a person), I think this is his most promising/interesting post-DT album/band, and including Derek makes it better, so I'm reaaly looking forward to this thing being fully announced properly.
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I don't think it's necessarily accurate to say that Mike Portnoy saying "Derek wasn't the best fit for DT at the time" is the same as saying "I, MP, wanted him gone and made it happen, whether the others wanted it or not". Derek IS a second guitar player on stage, moreso than Kevin and Jordan, and perhaps John and Mike had a different vision. Doesn't mean he's bad or not capable. And now that he's forming a new band, maybe DEREK will be "John" and the focus will be a guitar player that can play with HIM and not the other way around.
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Derek wasn't a good fit for where DT was headed at the time. That doesn't mean he's a bad keyboardist or not worth MP's time. Picking up where they left off with FII makes sense because they did have some cool ideas on FII and since MP is also out of DT now it's an interesting concept to see what else the two have to offer as collaborators.
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I think it's fair to say that Derek came out of DT a changed musician. Good for him. He handled the whole DT thing with grace.
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I think it's fair to say that Derek came out of DT a changed musician. Good for him. He handled the whole DT thing with grace.
Indeed!!!! His solo stuff is way more complex than anything he did in ACOS and FII.
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I think it's fair to say that Derek came out of DT a changed musician. Good for him. He handled the whole DT thing with grace.
Indeed. He had to learn most of IAW and Awake in 2 weeks, before the Awake tour started. That's no easy task :hefdaddy
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I see that jSS is recording a SOTO record in Los Angeles right now. So I think the guess on him is likely incorrect.
In regard to Derek, that man has never gotten proper credit, and he was shafted by DT. To be honest, while I think Jordan is a superior technical player, I enjoy listening to Derek's work more. More soul in his playing, more Jon Lord influence.
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I see that jSS is recording a SOTO record in Los Angeles right now. So I think the guess on him is likely incorrect.
In regard to Derek, that man has never gotten proper credit, and he was shafted by DT. To be honest, while I think Jordan is a superior technical player, I enjoy listening to Derek's work more. More soul in his playing, more Jon Lord influence.
B3 Hammond on everything ;D
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https://www.classicrockrevisited.com/show_interview.php?id=1221
Maybe the bassist is Sheehan after all...
Lee: You guys really sound in the pocket on the new stuff. Did you record in the same room, or was this a file-trading process?
Sheehan: We were in the same room for six days and did all the basics. We spent more time of in the mix and some lead vocals.
The lion’s share, 90 percent, was done in six days in Ocean Studio in Burbank. I had just done another record a week prior and did Mr. Big there without even moving my gear. Paul and I were in a separate control booth, both Matt [Starr, pitching in on drums for the current tour] and Pat were in there doing drums.
Lee: What was that other project you mentioned, the unnamed one?
Billy: It was another project, which is yet unnamed [this writer suspects the project could be Mike Portnoy’s prog-metal band with Derek Sherinian]. So in the week prior, I got used to the neighborhood and all the nearby restaurants.
We had no time for that with Mr. Big. We had to hustle to get it done in six days. We were doing two or three songs a day. We needed one more some toward the end. We wanted to get at least 11 songs on the record and we managed to hit that.
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That'a s shame if it's true. I can't stand Sheehan's playing.
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I like the way Portnoy, Sheehan and Derek sounded on the PSMS live album, so I'd love it if it was him on bass after all.
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Ocean Studios is the studio where MP, Derek, and Bumblefoot were at.
I wouldn't be surprised if Billy's the bassist, but I'd be very disappointed. As a bassist, I'm not a fan of Sheehan and the way he overplays everything.
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Ocean Studios is the studio where MP, Derek, and Bumblefoot were at.
ALLEGEDLY.
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That'a s shame if it's true. I can't stand Sheehan's playing.
I wouldn't be surprised if Billy's the bassist, but I'd be very disappointed. As a bassist, I'm not a fan of Sheehan and the way he overplays everything.
Agree with both posts I quoted. I'm also a bassist and, while I respect Billy for having such a unique style and for making a career of his own and not trying to copy anyone else, I just can't stand him as a bassist. He, indeed, overplays everything and his tone sucks (imo). My excitement for this project has decreased drastically after reading this :sad:
I think he is the perfect fit for TWD, but why does Mike have to include him in whatever new project he comes up with? :'(
I really hope this is not the case, but, judging by the pics on the web page of the studio he mentioned, it seems this is true.
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Not sure if I want Billy in there, but seriously, we talk about a PROG-metal group and you worry about overplaying? :biggrin:
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I've heard rumors independently (and much earlier than this thread) of JSS being in this. I've also heard a name for a bassist that isn't Sheehan - but also not that terribly known (not gonna say who because it would come back and bite me). But this is just rumors from someone i know who knows someone who knows someone. Portnoy himself was mum on the subject when i last spoke to him.
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I've heard rumors independently (and much earlier than this thread) of JSS being in this. I've also heard a name for a bassist that isn't Sheehan - but also not that terribly known (not gonna say who because it would come back and bite me). But this is just rumors from someone i know who knows someone who knows someone. Portnoy himself was mum on the subject when i last spoke to him.
I hope this is true! I would prefer someone who's probably not that famous over Billy anytime. However, with MP calling it an "all star supergroup" the chances of it being Billy are higher, I think.
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After hearing the Haken dude do Shattered Fortress, I honestly wish he was the guy. But if it does end up being JSS, it'll be cool. As long as everyone is committed. I don't want to see this as a prog metal version of Metal Allegiance. I was hoping for this to be a committed BAND. Fingers crossed.
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I don't like the Haken singer's voice. He does sound good on those live clips. But in general, his voice grates on me. But whoever it ends up being, I don't want to judge before I've actually heard the music, so I'll withhold forming any opinions.
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Ross has improved as time goes on, but I don't think it should be him because he's already committed to Haken. I'd prefer MP go with more of a songwriter/multi-instrumentalist type, like he wanted to when JLB was almost sacked during the Six Degrees tour. Somebody like Morse or Casey McPherson - but not those guys in particular, because I'd prefer something fresh.
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Haken are a well stablished band and Richard Henshall (Haken guitarist and main songwriter) said they plan to release an album next year, so I don think Ross will be involved.
Here's something a bit off-topic, but related since it's DT and Derek Sherinian: found an isolated keyboard version of Lines in the Sand :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTtHJp62kwo
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From MP Facebook:
I'm in serious multi-tasking mode right now: Jerry & I are recording/comping drums for the new Metal Allegiance album as well as my vocals & percussion for my upcoming album w Derek Sherinian...meanwhile Derek & our singer are in LA doing the singer's tracks and sending me the tracks for notes...
Kinda expected, but now is confirmed that this won't be an instrumental band.
Now people are going to start looking for clues on who might be the singer, something will probably get leaked and Mike will go nuts on social media again...
IT'S THE CIRCLE OF SOCIAL MEDIA, AND IT MOVES US ALLLLLLLLL.
Not being on social media that may explain why I'm stuck in a ditch....
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Very excited for this one, more so than any other post DT band because it puts him back in his core element. Everything hinges on who
the vocalist is. I know I will love MP and DS on this as I always do. If it turns out to be a really kick ass singer it could be amazing.
Never seen something like this as his core element. He may have started out that way and he may have an itch to scratch, but I think his work is so much more than that.
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i'd actually like it if it was JSS on vocals and Billy on bass i reckon it would be a good mix. Just hoping its not Bumblefoot for guitar
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If i had a Dream pic i'd had Devin Townsend as the vocalist and rhythm Guitarist but that'll never happen. I'd still love to have Eric Gillette as the guitarist and back up vocalist
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I love Billy Sheehan. What he did with Niacin is some of my favorite bass playing ever.
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Sorry not interested to look back to this discussion so who is JSS?
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Sorry not interested to look back to this discussion so who is JSS?
Jeff Scott Soto
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Sorry not interested to look back to this discussion so who is JSS?
Jeff Scott Soto
Thanks, have to look up this guy!
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I love Billy Sheehan. What he did with Niacin is some of my favorite bass playing ever.
Me too. I accept that some people don't like his tone, but really can't understand why. I pretty much love anything he did since Talas!
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I personally don't want Billy, only because I wan't something different. Dude already did two projects with MP.
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If i had a Dream pic i'd had Devin Townsend as the vocalist and rhythm Guitarist but that'll never happen. I'd still love to have Eric Gillette as the guitarist and back up vocalist
Dev's lead playing is much better than his rhythm playing imo, it's usually been pretty predictable chugging on the last few albums. The arpeggio melodies and tapping he does are incredible.
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I am still crossing my fingers for Ted Leonard
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I don't think I'd mind Billy playing. I'm not a huge fan of bumblefoot. He is a monster on guitar no doubt about it but his style and tone have never been my thing. Who knows what this will sound like though.
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I personally don't want Billy, only because I wan't something different. Dude already did two projects with MP.
He tends to confuse a mix for me, because he's all over the neck all the time. Awesome player but he's better in a stripped down setting.
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I personally don't want Billy, only because I wan't something different. Dude already did two projects with MP.
Completely agree with you Adami.
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If Sheehan is on bass, that will indeed massively dampen my excitement for the project.
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I have a feeling MP wont go with Billy Sheenan anyway just to make this project different from the others. Like others have said MP and billy have already done enough projects together
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I agree it probably won't be Billy Sheehan. And I am with those who would rather MP go elsewhere. I think Billy is amazing, and one of the best. But I'm ready for a different bass player.
Really hoping we get some solid details on this project soon.
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Next month. Somebody here, who talked to MP recently, said on the shattered tour thread.
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I was the one who posted the info. By the end of the month, we should get some information. He said too that he would tour with that supergroup in 2018!
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I was the one who posted the info. By the end of the month, we should get some information. He said too that he would tour with that supergroup in 2018!
If I'm not mistaken, he confirmed to you also that it will be only one guitar player, right? Personally I was wondering if this band wouldn't have a second one. Cool information anyway, thanks!
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I was the one who posted the info. By the end of the month, we should get some information. He said too that he would tour with that supergroup in 2018!
If I'm not mistaken, he confirmed to you also that it will be only one guitar player, right? Personally I was wondering if this band wouldn't have a second one. Cool information anyway, thanks!
They could still add a 2nd touring guitar player, like Fates Warning does with Mike Abdow.
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I was the one who posted the info. By the end of the month, we should get some information. He said too that he would tour with that supergroup in 2018!
If I'm not mistaken, he confirmed to you also that it will be only one guitar player, right? Personally I was wondering if this band wouldn't have a second one. Cool information anyway, thanks!
They could still add a 2nd touring guitar player, like Fates Warning does with Mike Abdow.
They could, but Fates' situation is a little different. Frank has a full time job, which is why Mike does the touring. And because Frank can't commit (I saw his most recent performance with the band in Dec. 2013 -- he lives in the Bay Area), FW just considers themselves a four-piece. But I don't think it's by design, just by necessity.
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If I'm not mistaken, he confirmed to you also that it will be only one guitar player, right? Personally I was wondering if this band wouldn't have a second one. Cool information anyway, thanks!
One singer, one guitar player and one bass player are yet to be announced. For the record, he didn't confirm to me, he confirmed it to a friend of mine who got the chance to get an aftershow pass (he is the former President of the French fan club and knows Mike well).
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Mike just teased an announcement for 1st of August. Full lineup? :corn
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Mike just teased an announcement for 1st of August. Full lineup? :corn
Cool. Hope so. I've got my hopes up for this. I hope I'm not crushed. While I guessed JSS a while ago, I really hope it isn't him, honestly. But if it is, we'll see how it goes. I also don't want Bumblefoot either.
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Mike just teased an announcement for 1st of August. Full lineup? :corn
He's announcing another facebook rant ;)
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Mike just teased an announcement for 1st of August. Full lineup? :corn
An announcement about an upcoming announcement? I love those! :)
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Mike just teased an announcement for 1st of August. Full lineup? :corn
An announcement about an upcoming announcement? I love those! :)
He needs to up his game.... DT are much better at that 😉
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If JSS would be a singer I would be in heaven :) Sheehan... I love him for his personality and talent but I think that I didn'nt want to see him in THAT supergroup. He did two other projects with MP and I think that's cool, but enough. I'm not following now so much MP Facebook, does something or someone was confirmed? Or there are only announcements anout announcements? ;)
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Only Derek is officially confirmed for sure.
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Only Derek is officially confirmed for sure.
[/quote
Good enough :)]
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I was looking back at when Sherinian was fired from DT. What a class act.
“I am very proud of my musical growth and contributions to the band in the last four years. I have nothing but positive thoughts and feelings towards John, Mike, James, and John. Jordan Rudess is a friend of mine and a great talent. I wish all of them the very best!”
– Derek Sherinian
Imagine MP doing that. His respect from people would go through the roof, including me.
“I am very proud of my musical growth and contributions to the band in the last twenty or so years years. I have nothing but positive thoughts and feelings towards John, Jordan, James, and John. Mike Mangini is a friend of mine and a great talent. I wish all of them the very best!”
– Mike Portnoy
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It's weird to expect a guy who yells "eat my ass and balls" on stage and thinks it's funny to act classy. :neverusethis:
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Yeah, for all of his positive attributes, and despite the nonsense he spews sometimes, he does have them, being classy is not one of them. But hey, he's from New York, so what do you expect...? :P
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If JSS would be a singer I would be in heaven :) Sheehan... I love him for his personality and talent but I think that I didn'nt want to see him in THAT supergroup. He did two other projects with MP and I think that's cool, but enough. I'm not following now so much MP Facebook, does something or someone was confirmed? Or there are only announcements anout announcements? ;)
https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/posts/1819126181438349:0
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Normally when MP says soon, he really means it 👍
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I was looking back at when Sherinian was fired from DT. What a class act.
“I am very proud of my musical growth and contributions to the band in the last four years. I have nothing but positive thoughts and feelings towards John, Mike, James, and John. Jordan Rudess is a friend of mine and a great talent. I wish all of them the very best!”
– Derek Sherinian
Imagine MP doing that. His respect from people would go through the roof, including me.
“I am very proud of my musical growth and contributions to the band in the last twenty or so years years. I have nothing but positive thoughts and feelings towards John, Jordan, James, and John. Mike Mangini is a friend of mine and a great talent. I wish all of them the very best!”
– Mike Portnoy
Never mind, it looks like I was mistaken.
Derek Sherinian Retweeted
BD Wallace @BDUBWALLACE Jul 25
More
Replying to @SonnyAngell @DerekSherinian @nordkeyboards
I loved everything you did with DT and beyond! I love crazy musicianship but JR can grate on my brain after awhile
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I was looking back at when Sherinian was fired from DT. What a class act.
“I am very proud of my musical growth and contributions to the band in the last four years. I have nothing but positive thoughts and feelings towards John, Mike, James, and John. Jordan Rudess is a friend of mine and a great talent. I wish all of them the very best!”
– Derek Sherinian
Imagine MP doing that. His respect from people would go through the roof, including me.
“I am very proud of my musical growth and contributions to the band in the last twenty or so years years. I have nothing but positive thoughts and feelings towards John, Jordan, James, and John. Mike Mangini is a friend of mine and a great talent. I wish all of them the very best!”
– Mike Portnoy
Never mind, it looks like I was mistaken.
Derek Sherinian Retweeted
BD Wallace @BDUBWALLACE Jul 25
More
Replying to @SonnyAngell @DerekSherinian @nordkeyboards
I loved everything you did with DT and beyond! I love crazy musicianship but JR can grate on my brain after awhile
That's kind of a bummer that he retweeted that.
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Derek spends a lot of time with MP. No wonder he picked up some of his mannerisms.
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A retweet doesnt mean someone agrees with everything states. He could just be RT because of the compliment he was given in it.
Jumping to dramatic conclusions leads to drama and bs...
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A retweet doesnt mean someone agrees with everything states. He could just be RT because of the compliment he was given in it.
Jumping to dramatic conclusions leads to drama and bs...
It's DTF we love drama and bs.
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A retweet doesnt mean someone agrees with everything states. He could just be RT because of the compliment he was given in it.
Jumping to dramatic conclusions leads to drama and bs...
Shouldn't he know that people might see it as him agreeing with everything? It's like when Portnoy retweets things like, "Mike Portnoy is best them, please come back to DT, but get a new singer, LaBrie sucks!"
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A retweet doesnt mean someone agrees with everything states. He could just be RT because of the compliment he was given in it.
Jumping to dramatic conclusions leads to drama and bs...
I agree, though MP gets a lot of aggro for the same thing.
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A retweet doesnt mean someone agrees with everything states. He could just be RT because of the compliment he was given in it.
Jumping to dramatic conclusions leads to drama and bs...
I agree, though MP gets a lot of aggro for the same thing.
MP goes further than just retweeting though.... ex when asked if he hates canadians his answer was "only one"
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A retweet doesnt mean someone agrees with everything states. He could just be RT because of the compliment he was given in it.
Jumping to dramatic conclusions leads to drama and bs...
I disagree. Imagine if on this board some posted "Great point bill1971, your posts are so much better than samsara's tiresome posts" and I quoted the message and put an up arrow and said "yes I agree"
I would think you would take it as I'm agreeing with the negative comment towards you.
By the way I don't think you have tiresome posts. :)
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The obvious response would be, "Thank you for your compliment." Or, "Thank you, but JR does a great job."
A simple retweet is a direct approval of the tweet, and all that is included.
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A simple retweet is a direct approval of the tweet, and all that is included.
I agree. I also agree that JR can be grating at times.
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A retweet doesnt mean someone agrees with everything states. He could just be RT because of the compliment he was given in it.
Jumping to dramatic conclusions leads to drama and bs...
I disagree. Imagine if on this board some posted "Great point bill1971, your posts are so much better than samsara's tiresome posts" and I quoted the message and put an up arrow and said "yes I agree"
I misread "threesome posts" :lol
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:rollin
Ok, so in DT-speak, I am off base. :lol
Honestly though, I didn't take that RT as approval of the whole tweet. People get lazy on social media.
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Well, strictly speaking, a retweet without any explanation does on its face mean, "I agree." And, by extension, if there isn't any explanation carving out any part of it that isn't agreed with, that means agreement with the whole thing. But, yeah, "People get lazy on social media," as in regular speech. So I think you are still correct that we shouldn't necessarily assume something negative, especially if there isn't a pattern as there is with certain other people that are the topic of discussion in this thread.
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Oh, what drama.
::)
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Well, strictly speaking, a retweet without any explanation does on its face mean, "I agree." And, by extension, if there isn't any explanation carving out any part of it that isn't agreed with, that means agreement with the whole thing. But, yeah, "People get lazy on social media," as in regular speech. So I think you are still correct that we shouldn't necessarily assume something negative, especially if there isn't a pattern as there is with certain other people that are the topic of discussion in this thread.
Yeah that's pretty much my thought as well. A retweet to me without anything else is full agreement of the original tweet. But like you said, there is no pattern of this with DS, in fact he's been really great with addressing his time in DT publicly since he was fired.
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Well, strictly speaking, a retweet without any explanation does on its face mean, "I agree." And, by extension, if there isn't any explanation carving out any part of it that isn't agreed with, that means agreement with the whole thing. But, yeah, "People get lazy on social media," as in regular speech. So I think you are still correct that we shouldn't necessarily assume something negative, especially if there isn't a pattern as there is with certain other people that are the topic of discussion in this thread.
Yeah that's pretty much my thought as well. A retweet to me without anything else is full agreement of the original tweet. But like you said, there is no pattern of this with DS, in fact he's been really great with addressing his time in DT publicly since he was fired.
Yes, I agree. DS has been very cool. Probably just a one off moment.
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A retweet doesnt mean someone agrees with everything states. He could just be RT because of the compliment he was given in it.
Jumping to dramatic conclusions leads to drama and bs...
I agree, though MP gets a lot of aggro for the same thing.
MP goes further than just retweeting though.... ex when asked if he hates canadians his answer was "only one"
Maybe he refers to Justin Bieber
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A retweet doesnt mean someone agrees with everything states. He could just be RT because of the compliment he was given in it.
Jumping to dramatic conclusions leads to drama and bs...
I agree, though MP gets a lot of aggro for the same thing.
MP goes further than just retweeting though.... ex when asked if he hates canadians his answer was "only one"
Maybe he refers to Justin Bieber
I mean Chad Kroeger from Nickelback gets plenty of hate. It could easily be him.
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Interesting to hear MP confirm it's a five piece. Can't recall hearing that before.
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A little bit of info here
https://youtu.be/wLxqNFXKQtI
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Quite interesting interview (I didn't know that They are playing other DT songs like The Mirror live with The Shattered Fortress), Well If I could predict who would be that three members - I say - one Haken member (guitar/bass), vocal JSS, bassist... Conner form Haken, Sheehan, LaRue... the bassist it's the most hard mamber to figure out for me to be honest ;)
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From MP Facebook, news tomorrow.
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From MP Facebook, news tomorrow.
:soon:
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I will be VERY disappointed if Billy Sheehan is the bassist for this band :-\
Excited about the MP/DS collab again, though.
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I'll be very happy if Sheehan is the bass player in this project! Guy is a force of nature with his instrument, and he elevates every project he is a part of..
Haven't followed news about this very closely, but I'm excited! It'll be interesting to see MP back in the world of Prog Metal.
It's also great to see him play with Derek again! I love his contributions in DT discography!
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If this project has any hope of touring anytime soon, I don't see it being Sheehan. He and Mr. Big should be out on the road touring their new album any day now.
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Mike confirmed that the band will be touring in 2018.
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The one thing I'm hoping for is a good singer (well, good songs too off course...). I know for example a lot of prog fans like Haken but their singer kind of ruins it for me, don't much care for him.
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Introducing SONS OF APOLLO!
For the past few months, rumours have been circulating about a new secret project including former Dream Theater members Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian. Now, the time has come to make the grand and highly anticipated introduction to their new band, SONS OF APOLLO.
Reuniting to form SONS OF APOLLO, Portnoy and Sherinian have joined forces with Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal (ex-Guns N’ Roses), Billy Sheehan (The Winery Dogs, Mr. Big, David Lee Roth) and Jeff Scott Soto (ex-Journey, ex-Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising Force).
Their debut album, PSYCHOTIC SYMPHONY, will be released 20th October on InsideOutMusic/Sony Music. An album teaser can be seen on InsideOutMusic’s YouTube page here: https://youtu.be/kPN2DttzlZQ
(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20451764_10155597956800439_5814741334812476619_o.jpg?oh=9c8a2bdc9d1d5d3b4360a69e56201116&oe=5A2D9BB5)
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Wow, looks like the fans were right.
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In general, I'm not a big fan of Sheehan or Bumblefoot, likely because of Eddie Trunk's worship of them on That Metal Show.
But that album teaser sounds really cool. JSS is a beast and it's nice to see him with Portnoy doing some progressive metal. Very interested in this project!
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I'll definitely give this album a listen. :tup
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For me, this project hinged on the vocalist.
But being that it's JSS, I'll be all over this!
I am not at all familiar with Thal.
EDIT: The teaser sounds awesome.
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https://www.sonsofapollo.com/
https://twitter.com/SonsOfApollo1
https://www.facebook.com/SonsOfApollo1
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Wow, it sure sounds DT-influenced. I like it. :tup
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Not the people I envisioned when Mike said Prog Metal supergroup but i will check it out.
The snippets don't hook me as I would have hoped.
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Meh
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Love the name and can't wait to hear the album.
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Meh
my first reaction as well. feel I've heard this all before.
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Wow, so I'm a bit surprised that there are no "surprises" in the lineup. We called every one of them. Nice job, Internet sleuths. :lol Well, these guys all have serious chops. I guess now we wait and see whether the songs actually hold up. Here's to high hopes.
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The snippets don't hook me as I would have hoped.
Yeah, same here. But then again, snippets out of context rarely do. I need to hear whole songs.
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Wow, it sure sounds DT-influenced. I like it. :tup
And you can HEAR the drums!
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The snippets don't hook me as I would have hoped.
Yeah, same here. But then again, snippets out of context rarely do. I need to hear whole songs.
The one at the very end was really nice.
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Can't say I heard much that grabbed me. I love most of the band so will certainly follow. Thal has chops but his writing has never impressed me.
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Sounds like Billy Sheehan might be the bassist for Portnoy's new progressive metal supergroup, according to Richie Kotzen. So that means we could have four band members identified: Portnoy, Sherinian, Bumblefoot and Sheehan.
Link: https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/richie-kotzen-on-the-winery-dogs-future-i-dont-foresee-anything-happening-for-a-couple-of-years/
"For me, it's time to come home and do what I've always done. I have been making Richie Kotzen records since I was 18; it's a source of survival, sanity, art, and everything you want to call it. I know the other guys have something very exciting in the works which people will love. It may fill a WINERY DOGS void."
Wow, so Richie Kotzen DID spill the beans months early about Sheehan being in the band. So, in theory, we knew all of the band members except for the vocalist until today.
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Hilarious the whole band was not a surprise. Disappointed Billy is involved but his bass sound doesn't sound too annoying. Sounds decent overall. Probably won't travel to see them as I do for 85% of the shows I see but if they play anywhere near I may feel inclined to go.
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Meh
Pretty much.
Based on the teaser this is nothing for me. Can't stand the singer.
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Well now, looks like I called that JSS thing from the very start. :lol
Interesting sampler. I don't want to critique too much, because like those who have said it as well, I prefer to hear full songs. I will say I have a twinge of disappointment regarding Bumblefoot and Sheehan. Their talent is undeniable, but as a fan, I'm sorta sick of seeing Billy Sheehan all over the place, and Bumblefoot never really did it for me.
That all said, I'm excited to hear the record. Hopefully it is really good. I'll be pre-ordering for sure.
Is their Facebook page DOA already?
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I have a twinge of disappointment regarding Bumblefoot and Sheehan. Their talent is undeniable, but as a fan, I'm sorta sick of seeing Billy Sheehan all over the place, and Bumblefoot never really did it for me.
I can understand that. Part of me feels the same way. But the other side of the coin is, we have no idea really how they'll fit into a project like this. Bumblefoot's stuff is pretty out there, and I don't really connect with it at all. But when he was in G&R, he was planning a different type of music than he would right for his own solo projects, and I think he showed that he can play as part of a group, playing accessible music and playing it well. We could look at lots of other guys in a similar vein as well. There are lots of people who may not be able to get into a lot of the stuff that Vai does as a solo act. But put him in David Lee Roth's band or Whitesnake, and he's great in that environment too.
I know you know all that, so I'm not necessarily trying to persuade you of anything. Just "talking to myself out loud," more or less, because I kind of feel the same way and have to rationalize to myself why I shouldn't.
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I think the clips sound really promising to the extent that I expect to enjoy the album. But with the presence of JSS and Sheehan, I am already quite sure that my enjoyment will not rise above a level to where I will be a die-hard fine like I am of DT, Cynic, Porcupine Tree, etc.
And that's fine. A pleasing addition to my rotation of prog metal CDs is good enough, it doesn't have to blow me away.
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Will have to wait to hear the album first. The clip was very generic. Definitely talented people but nothing I haven't heard before.
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That teaser didn't really grab me, but I'll check out the album I guess.
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I guess I am feeling different than the rest with regards to this. The clips sound like there's a lot of potential here. The thing I worry about the most is the vocals. I'm not sure yet if I really enjoy them, but I can't say I do or don't just from the teaser. But I really like Billy on bass and although he's involved with a lot of MP stuff, I can't sit here and say I can't/won't enjoy this just because of that. I like his sound and I think he could be really good on this. I'm actually excited to hear more after this whereas my interest level was very low to start.
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I like it!!!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/26tP2XGboIb27xz6o/giphy.gif)
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Sounds like mid-career DT with a different vocalist, I am interested! But these samples are horribly paced, can't really make anything out of them the way they are cut, outside that the sound and musical direction appeals to me.
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So Sheehan :) ok, I can deal with that ;) lot of Derek's keyboards in those clips which is fine. Sounds promising, very DTish, somewhere between SDOIT and ToT. :tup
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SONS OF APOLLO
FEATURING EX-MEMBERS OF DREAM THEATER, GUNS N’ ROSES AND JOURNEY
DEBUT ALBUM, ‘PSYCHOTIC SYMPHONY,’
DUE OUT OCTOBER 20 ON INSIDEOUTMUSIC/SONY MUSIC
APOLLO: The ancient Greek and Roman God of music and poetry.
SONS OF APOLLO: The new supergroup featuring members of Dream Theater, Mr. Big, Guns ‘N Roses, and Journey.
For the past few months, rumors have been circulating about a new secret project including former Dream Theater members Mike Portnoy and Derek Sherinian. Now, the time has come to make the grand and highly anticipated introduction to their new band, SONS OF APOLLO.
Reuniting to form SONS OF APOLLO, Portnoy and Sherinian have joined forces with Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal (ex-Guns N’ Roses), Billy Sheehan (The Winery Dogs, Mr. Big, David Lee Roth) and Jeff Scott Soto (ex-Journey, ex-Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising Force). Their debut album, PSYCHOTIC SYMPHONY, will be released October 20 on InsideOutMusic/Sony Music. An album teaser can be seen on InsideOutMusic’s official YouTube page here: https://youtu.be/kPN2DttzlZQ
PSYCHOTIC SYMPHONY was produced by the dynamic production duo of Portnoy and Sherinian, also affectionately known as “The Del Fuvio Brothers,” which is the nickname given to them over 20 years ago during their time together in Dream Theater.
SONS OF APOLLO got together very organically, as Portnoy explains: “Derek and I reunited shortly after I left Dream Theater in 2010 and we put together an all-instrumental touring band with he and I, Billy Sheehan, and Tony MacAlpine. That was my first time working with Derek since the ‘90s when he was in Dream Theater and it was just great to be working with him again. Ever since that tour, which was really just a one-off live thing, he has been nudging me to start a real, original, full-time band. The timing just had never been right, because I had too many other things on my plate. Long story short, the time was finally right to take the bait and put together a band.”
“Mike and I work at a relentless pace in the studio,” continues Sherinian. “The music is modern, but we have an old school soul. What is unique about SONS OF APOLLO is that we have true rock n’ roll swagger along with the virtuosity-- a lethal combination!”
But what to call the next great supergroup? “Derek was mainly the one behind the name,” says Portnoy. “I have a list that I keep on my phone of about a hundred different band names, which I constantly have to refer to every time I have a new band every year (laughs). So, I pulled up the list and Apollo was one of the names on the list. It was a word that both of us really liked. We started fiddling with different variations of the word. One of the original band names we were working with was Apollo Creed, the character from the ‘Rocky’ movies, but after lots of different discussions on different variations, Derek suggested SONS OF APOLLO and it seemed to stick. Apollo is the God of Music so with that in mind it seemed like a fitting name.”
Mike Portnoy, Derek Sherinian and Billy Sheehan previously toured together in 2012 and 2013 as PSMS (along with guitarist Tony MacAlpine), playing all instrumental versions from each of their previously recorded music. SONS OF APOLLO is the next logical progression by adding a vocalist and creating all-original material. The band incorporates the progressive style and individual technical prowess that Portnoy & Sherinian shared together in Dream Theater combined with the swagger and groove of Van Halen, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin.
“I have known Mike and Derek for a long time, so when they came to me with Sons of Apollo, I jumped on this straight away,” says Thomas Waber, Label Manager/A&R International of InsideOutMusic. “However, the album they ended up recording exceeded my already high expectations by a long mile! We couldn’t be happier about it!”
SONS OF APOLLO will hit the road in 2018 for their first worldwide tour.
“This is a real band,” Portnoy declares. “This is going to pick up for me and Billy where The Winery Dogs left off, in terms of this being the next logical full-time thing for us. I’m not saying The Winery Dogs have broken up, because we haven’t, we’re just on a break. SONS OF APOLLO is absolutely going to be a full-time band and we plan on touring all over the world all throughout 2018 and, honestly, it is the priority for all five of us.”
Sherinian agrees, “We will go on a worldwide crusade in 2018 to bring SONS OF APOLLO to as many people as possible. Apollo was the God of Music, and we are his mighty offspring!”
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I think Bumblefoot is actually the most exciting part of the project. I've heard some of his solo stuff which sounded more punk to me. I know he is versatile so I'm excited to see what he'll do with prog metal.
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I'm optimistic! :tup
Sheehan onboard is a plus for me! Never heard of the vocalist, but he sounds great. Getting mid 2000-era DT, and some Iconoclast era SX vibes from what I heard.
Definitely a lot of potential here!
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I'm optimistic! :tup
Sheehan onboard is a plus for me! Never heard of the vocalist, but he sounds great. Getting mid 2000-era DT, and some Iconoclast era SX vibes from what I heard.
Definitely a lot of potential here!
You've never heard of Jeff Scott Soto? Go YouTube him. Trust me, you won't regret it. He's sung for Yngwie, Journey, Trans-Siberian Orchestra, and a ton of other smaller bands.
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Wow and the album it's out also on 20th October, the same day as new Europe record :biggrin: my wallet will be soooooo empty :biggrin:
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Ok, we'll see where this goes. I had wished for another singer but in the end it's the overall package that has to deliver. And I'm curious how much of a regular band they will be, all of them have a large amount of other things going.
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From the lineup alone I wouldn't be all that excited (and wasn't when literally EVERY ONE OF THEM had been deduced) but I'm never one to pre-judge and honestly those teasers sounded really cool. In as much as anything can be learned from teasers (which is very little) there was a great energy that suggests some really good potential. We'll just have to wait and see how it translates into full songs.
EDIT: Oh and as someone who's not especially familiar with JSS, he sounds great in the samples.
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Why I can only see Facebook posts from Sons Of Apollo profile and no particular Facebook profile which I could like ? :-\
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I'm optimistic! :tup
Sheehan onboard is a plus for me! Never heard of the vocalist, but he sounds great. Getting mid 2000-era DT, and some Iconoclast era SX vibes from what I heard.
Definitely a lot of potential here!
You've never heard of Jeff Scott Soto? Go YouTube him. Trust me, you won't regret it. He's sung for Yngwie, Journey, Trans-Siberian Orchestra, and a ton of other smaller bands.
Yngwie's Marching Out is my #4 all time Favorite Vocal performance by anyone.
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I'm hoping this is really the case:
The band incorporates the progressive style and individual technical prowess that Portnoy & Sherinian shared together in Dream Theater combined with the swagger and groove of Van Halen, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin.
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Okay cool :tup
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Sounds awesome. I like it!
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The samples are promising!!!! I already like this son of Apollo, so let´s see what the other ones have to bring:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/WldnJerxYdPC8/giphy.gif)
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Music sounds like DT which is fine (I'm fine with dirivitiveness if it sounds good), but the vocal melodies are severely lacking.
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The secret lineup that was no secret at all! :lol
I actually like the lineup, with the exception of Billy. I just don't like the way he overplays everything with the same old and tired licks.
Based ond the snippets, it sounds promising, but we can't really judge a band by just a few seconds of a couple songs. I'll have to wait for the first single to see how this really sounds.
About the name, I just don't dig it, but that's not too important, anyway.
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Music sounds like DT which is fine (I'm fine with dirivitiveness if it sounds good), but the vocal melodies are severely lacking.
I didn't get too excited with the vocals either.
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I like what I am hearing so far
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I'm optimistic! :tup
Sheehan onboard is a plus for me! Never heard of the vocalist, but he sounds great. Getting mid 2000-era DT, and some Iconoclast era SX vibes from what I heard.
Definitely a lot of potential here!
You've never heard of Jeff Scott Soto? Go YouTube him. Trust me, you won't regret it. He's sung for Yngwie, Journey, Trans-Siberian Orchestra, and a ton of other smaller bands.
Yngwie's Marching Out is my #4 all time Favorite Vocal performance by anyone.
One, two and three?
(And mad props for being able to whip out "No. 4 all time Favorite Vocal performance" in about nine seconds notice.)
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It sounded....fine. Just very generic.
I'll give the actual album a shot, but if this was supposed to increase excitement, for me, it has failed at that.
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The music was a mixed bag for me from the sample, but being completely unfamiliar with JSS I thought the vocals sounded pretty good. Will still definitely buy right away.
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Liked the sample but didn't like JSS. I'll give the album a listen though.
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I'm the opposide. Liked JSS but didn't like the sample. :lol
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Count me in the meh crowd. I look forward to hearing more, but the samples didn't do much for me. Players with chops for days but nothing grabbed me. Hopefully that changes.
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I can see them opening for DT.
:neverusethis:
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Yeah, I liked the vocals but wasn't really blown away by anything else. Hard to judge based on samples though, so I'll hold off on judgment until we hear a full song.
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This sounds like Winery Dogs with a keyboard player and a little more progressive time signatures. Mike and Billy has done too much "supergroups" in the past so this sound bit lame. That's shame because I could really like if Mike did a prog metal supergroup with for example Eric Gillette and Haken guys...
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This sounds like Winery Dogs with a keyboard player and a little more progressive time signatures. Mike and Billy has done too much "supergroups" in the past so this sound bit lame. That's shame because I could really like if Mike did a prog metal supergroup with for example Eric Gillette and Haken guys...
They're in a cover band together, it's called The Shattered Fortress :biggrin:
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This may be the first thing of Mike's post-DT projects that I'm legitimately interested in. Sounds like it has potential.
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I'm optimistic! :tup
Sheehan onboard is a plus for me! Never heard of the vocalist, but he sounds great. Getting mid 2000-era DT, and some Iconoclast era SX vibes from what I heard.
Definitely a lot of potential here!
You've never heard of Jeff Scott Soto? Go YouTube him. Trust me, you won't regret it. He's sung for Yngwie, Journey, Trans-Siberian Orchestra, and a ton of other smaller bands.
Yngwie's Marching Out is my #4 all time Favorite Vocal performance by anyone.
Yes... he's fantastic on that album!
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Just listened to the sample. Sounds really wanky and boring. JSS' voice isn't doing anything for me.
All that combined with the fact that Billy Sheehan is in the band has made my interest in this project drop significantly.
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So he basically formed PSMS into a real band switching guitarists and adding vocalist.
I'll wait till they release a full song. But based on who's in it, I'm hearing a more Old school style rock mixed with prog metal. I haven't checked the clips yet.
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bearing in mind they are only samples I didn't like the vocals at all plus the music was really generic. Just didn't do anything for me at all.
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The secret lineup that was no secret at all! :lol
Haha I was thinking too that MP gave it away when he got all hurt about the Bumblebee fiasco.
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I won't listen to the spoilers, I don't want any pre-conceived ideas. I'm definitely excited for the release and the line-up is cool. I think they could have a better band name though, I hope the music does the talking which I'm sure it will..
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Btw, There's a band I've been jamming in for about the last year and they wanted to call it "Sons of Eve". I told them if that is going to be the name, it is a deal breaker for me.. Ughh!
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Pretty good looking band...
(https://scontent.fphl2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20525848_10155581658542760_6604088999199664326_n.jpg?oh=7fe3dbed9d3a77eda3fb5d73ce8f9878&oe=59FE8537)
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OH DEAR! :facepalm:
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There are a number of acts with that name. Hope Portnoy's legal team were able to secure rights to the name. Otherwise, "Sons of Apollo" will be short-lived (the name). :lol
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That almost looks like a young Derek in the leather jacket.
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How can that other band call themselves "Sons of Apollo" when there's a female band member? It's not "Sons and Daughter of Apollo." :p
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How can that other band call themselves "Sons of Apollo" when there's a female band member? It's not "Sons and Daughters of Apollo." :p
That person is obviously genderfluid. Mind your gender pronouns.
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First impression: like the vocals, not sold on the music
I will probably buy the album anyway ;)
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How can that other band call themselves "Sons of Apollo" when there's a female band member? It's not "Sons and Daughters of Apollo." :p
That person is obviously genderfluid. Mind your gender pronouns.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/vk7VesvyZEwuI/giphy.gif)
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Btw, There's a band I've been jamming in for about the last year and they wanted to call it "Sons of Eve". I told them if that is going to be the name, it is a deal breaker for me.. Ughh!
??? Why?
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Just listened 5 times in a row to the samples. Love it! On paper, it basically rectifies many grudges I have with DT.
Since MM joined, I'm starved for a good drum sound. MP's drums sound great here.
Sherinian's keyboard sounds are way better than Jordan's (hard to beat a Hammond C3).
The bass isn't prominent enough on most DT records, Billy Sheehan cuts through the mix.
The vocals are very pleasant, too. (Just to avoid any confusion, JLB in the studio is amazing, so there's no DT comparison here).
I'm not too hot about the names (neither the band-, nor the album-). Typical generic pretentious prog terminology. Something something Symphony? Give me a break.
In terms of sound and production, I'm already hooked. Hoping for good songwriting & melodies.
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Btw, There's a band I've been jamming in for about the last year and they wanted to call it "Sons of Eve". I told them if that is going to be the name, it is a deal breaker for me.. Ughh!
??? Why?
I just don't like the name. Lol, so we decided against it and were doing a studio project soon with a lot of material. When the project is complete, we'll decide on a name that goes with the overall vibe of the finished product..
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Sycsa, I see what you're saying about the pretentious prog terminology..lol, that can get kind of cheesy..
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Oh, okay. The way you worded it, it just sounded like there was some visceral reaction, and I wasn't sure why. (...and I actually kind of like it)
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My initial reaction is the instrumental sections sound fantastic......not really sold on the vocals but I'll wait to hear them in context.
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Oh, okay. The way you worded it, it just sounded like there was some visceral reaction, and I wasn't sure why. (...and I actually kind of like it)
I guess it's better than "Sons of B's"....
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There are a number of acts with that name. Hope Portnoy's legal team were able to secure rights to the name. Otherwise, "Sons of Apollo" will be short-lived (the name). :lol
If they can't use that name, I guess they'll have to Apollo-gize to the fans and the other band(s) using the name!
:rollin
-Marc.
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Pretty good looking band...
(https://scontent.fphl2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20525848_10155581658542760_6604088999199664326_n.jpg?oh=7fe3dbed9d3a77eda3fb5d73ce8f9878&oe=59FE8537)
(https://www.muzic.net.nz/images/artists/pics/2715.jpg)
https://www.muzic.net.nz/artists/2715/sons-of-apollo
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Not as good as Sons of Thunder.
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Well, on the upside, I think Glasser is still available.
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Well, on the upside, I think Glasser is still available.
And in a few months, Charlie parts with some Glasser paraphernalia :lol
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Sons of Apollo... OF FIRE!
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Sons of Apollo... OF FIRE!
:metal
Step-sons Of Apollo
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There are a number of acts with that name. Hope Portnoy's legal team were able to secure rights to the name. Otherwise, "Sons of Apollo" will be short-lived (the name). :lol
If they can't use that name, I guess they'll have to Apollo-gize to the fans and the other band(s) using the name!
:rollin
-Marc.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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That would be an Apoll-ing development.
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Maybe we smell another name change like in the Majesty days. Reoccurring in 2017. :xbones
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Sons of Apollo... OF FIRE!
:rollin
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From Youtube comments:
So, you basically take Tony MacAlpine out of PSMS, and now you have PSSST... :lol :lol :lol
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How about Bastard Sons of Apollo????
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From Youtube comments:
So, you basically take Tony MacAlpine out of PSMS, and now you have PSSST... :lol :lol :lol
PSSST would be an amazing band name. Imagine the album titles and how the covers would play on that band name...
PSSST - Listen To This!
PSSST - I've Got A Secret...
PSSST - Guess What?
PSSST - Whatcha Doin'?
-Marc.
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Surprised nobody has commented on the album name yet ("Psychotic symphony"). Sounds like straight out of bandnamemaker.com :lol
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Surprised nobody has commented on the album name yet ("Psychotic symphony"). Sounds like straight out of bandnamemaker.com :lol
It has a "Systematic Chaos" feel to me.
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Surprised nobody has commented on the album name yet ("Psychotic symphony"). Sounds like straight out of bandnamemaker.com :lol
Sycsa commented on it earlier. He said Pretentious Prog terminology.. :lol
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From Youtube comments:
So, you basically take Tony MacAlpine out of PSMS, and now you have PSSST... :lol :lol :lol
PSSST would be an amazing band name. Imagine the album titles and how the covers would play on that band name...
PSSST - Listen To This!
PSSST - I've Got A Secret...
PSSST - Guess What?
PSSST - Whatcha Doin'?
-Marc.
Indeed, thinking better, it would be a really cool name! I can imagine Marco Minnemann in a band called like this :tup
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Surprised nobody has commented on the album name yet ("Psychotic symphony"). Sounds like straight out of bandnamemaker.com :lol
I'm surprised they didn't go for "Psychotic Psymphony", to be honest.
-Marc.
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Mike Portnoy - Psychotic Drumphony
... lol
I know, he's not a phony.
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Mike Portnoy - Psychotic Drumphony
... lol
I know, he's not a phony.
Psychotic SymDRUMy? :millahhhh
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Big JSS fan. Not sure about 4th, but Marching Our rates pretty high with me, as well. Really missed DS's keys. He was basically ignored in BCC. Really tired of Sheehan. Maybe his prog-stylings will be more to my liking, but I'm not super hopeful. Unfamiliar with Bumblefoot.
Sounds like he's really looking to recreate DT from the samples. Part of it is DS (unmistakable), but the music itself is derivative. Something I'm curious about is how much input the other guys have. THere's a lot of talent in that band. I know MP has said that it's his band, in no uncertain terms, but I wonder how much control he's exercising. Partly because I'd like to hear what the other guys bring, but also because that's not how you keep a group together. Assuming he intends to do more than one album, will JSS or RBT still want to play?
Also, checking YT for the sample thing, it seems there's a different band called Sons of Apollo. Some of the videos are 9+ years old. MP's been around the block, so I figured they're on this, but does seem unusual.
-
Mike Portnoy - Psychotic Drumphony
... lol
I know, he's not a phony.
Psychotic SymDRUMy? :millahhhh
Drumdrumic Drumdrumy
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My excitement for this has got a lot higher with JSS in the band. Great voice. Can sing the phone book and Maldives it sound great.
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I'm a big fan of Derek so I'll be checking this out. Not convinced this is going to be some huge thing for these guys yet, I feel like MP has said that many times for a couple of bands since DT, and they're never as constant a priority as they're made out to be.
IMO should have went with new people. Guess he just really enjoys working with Billy or something. Again not a dig against them or anything.
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I think that the people who have been clamoring for MP to do the DT thing again, this is perfect. Sounds like a DT clone band for the most part, but with different vocals.
I was hoping for something different, but we'll see.
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I think that the people who have been clamoring for MP to do the DT thing again, this is perfect. Sounds like a DT clone band for the most part, but with different vocals.
I was hoping for something different, but we'll see.
Well said, but I've been expecting something like this exactly from that band. With those YT samples we can predict some real crazy stuff. Don't know Bumblefoot too much, but I assume that we can count on some 16:7 56:78 1:8 and 9:16 ;)
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this seems like it may resemble G3-like work, than traditional progressive metal.
Still hope Mike manages to work in an all-original music band with either/both John Arch or Daniel Gildenlow someday.
Also would love to see him do a more overt Power-Pop project with Roger Manning and/or Ty Tabor.
But those bands/projects seem like if they ever happen, won't until next decade.
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I think that the people who have been clamoring for MP to do the DT thing again, this is perfect. Sounds like a DT clone band for the most part, but with different vocals.
I was hoping for something different, but we'll see.
I haven't bee clamoring for anything, but a DT clone band with JSS and Sherinian sounds like a fantastic thing in my book.
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And just follow any of Mike's other bands for different.
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Sons of Apollo... OF FIRE!
Power prog now ;D
This from BM comments..............
They should have contacted me, I could have done the guitar, bass, drums and vocals.....
Yngwie
:lol
My excitement for this has got a lot higher with JSS in the band. Great voice. Can sing the phone book and Maldives it sound great.
Awesome for the people of the Maldives - bet they weren't expecting a tour. :metal
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Sons of Apollo... OF FIRE!
Power prog now ;D
This from BM comments..............
They should have contacted me, I could have done the guitar, bass, drums and vocals.....
Yngwie
:lol
My excitement for this has got a lot higher with JSS in the band. Great voice. Can sing the phone book and Maldives it sound great.
Awesome for the people of the Maldives - bet they weren't expecting a tour. :metal
Just remembering a great holiday there... really should start wearing my reading glasses...
-
Mike Portnoy - Psychotic Drumphony
... lol
I know, he's not a phony.
Psychotic SymDRUMy? :millahhhh
Drumdrumic Drumdrumy
Yes.
God, yes.
-
Psychosane Symphony? :lol :lol
Those clips didn't much for me, but I'll wait and see what some people are saying about it once it is released.
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I'm going to double back and read the entire thread later. But I'm assuming everybody's already beaten to death how awful that name is.
Seriously? Sons of Apollo? There were choices....and 5guys collectively agreed on SONS OF APOLLO?
Wyld Stallyns would have been less corny.
I love the lineup, and I'm excited for the release....but I'd be way too embarrassed to tell anyone I listen to......that name....
I'll buy the album, but I'm betting they aren't gonna sell a lot of T-shirts.
-
Was disappointed that there weren't any surprises with the lineup, and nothing about the lineup other than MP or DS excites me... But after hearing the sound clips a few times I'm excited. At first I was thinking it was just cliché metal prog (and there's really nothing in the clip to convince me otherwise), but if I pretend I have never heard of the people in the lineup it sounds great!
I predicted to myself the other day that the announcement would come with a medley clip of songs, clips so short you can't tell anything about the songs, and I was dead on! I was specifically remembering a clip medley from BC&SL that was completely pointless.
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The sampler was okay, nothing really grabbed me but still looking forward to it. A lot of obvious DT references in there. Don't really know anything about Bumblefoot so eager to hear what he brings.
JSS is always a beast.
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I'm going to double back and read the entire thread later. But I'm assuming everybody's already beaten to death how awful that name is.
Seriously? Sons of Apollo? There were choices....and 5guys collectively agreed on SONS OF APOLLO?
Wyld Stallyns would have been less corny.
I love the lineup, and I'm excited for the release....but I'd be way too embarrassed to tell anyone I listen to......that name....
I'll buy the album, but I'm betting they aren't gonna sell a lot of T-shirts.
The band name is bad already, but I think the album name is much worse ???
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Who cares about a name.. Looking forward to hear the music.. 7 years have passed without listening to that guy doing what he does better than anyone else.. It's about time!.. :metal
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Who cares about a name.. Looking forward to hear the music.. 7 years have passed without listening to that guy doing what he does better than anyone else.. It's about time!.. :metal
Write drum parts that repeat the same fills and beats he has been using for the past X years? Yeah nobody else does that better. :neverusethis:
On a serious note I'm going to check the album out, if only to appreciate good sounding drums in prog for a change.
-
A part of the samples sound like Planet X a little bit, and that's understandable, considering how Derek's sound played a huge part in that band. I always thought that bands like Planet X would be more successful if they had vocals, so I'm excited for this project. But you're right, the band's name and the album title are as cheesy as it gets.
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Listened to the sample again, so here are my thoughts...
Snippet 1 - Very cool keyboard line and sound, love the full-band entrance too. Sounds like it'll be the album opener, but if it isn't great song intro (assuming it is one).
Snippet 2 - This definitely sounds more middle-era Dream Theater to me, though the guitars in the second part of this bit are a bit more defining, though we only hear a measure or so of it.
Snippet 3 - The first vocals we hear! They're not bad, but this sounds like a verse or pre-chorus, so there's no chance to hear a soaring vocal melody for the chorus proper, which I can only hope where JSS shines. As it is, there isn't much else to get from this bit.
Snippet 4 - Some more DT-ish noodling, despite all being in 4/4, is still sounds cool. Is that a key and guitar unison I hear?
Snippet 5 - The second bit of vocals, which sounds like a chorus here! Very short bit, but I liked this one more.
Snippet 6 - Now THIS is more like it. Very DT-instrumental-middle-section-ish here, and it sounds pretty good. Love the over-all feel here, and Mike is employing his usual use of splashes for accents that I enjoy.
Snippet 7 - The third vocal bit, and it's a very short one, sounds like a chorus into a bridge, maybe? Or another verse perhaps.
Snippet 8 - MY FAVORITE BIT! I need MORE of this. The guitars are on FIRE and I love the feel of the whole bit. I hope there's more of that on the album!
Snippet 9 - The last piece we get, and of course, it's the end of a song, which isn't anything too special here.
Assuming Mike pieced this together and each snippet is representative of a unique and separate song, we're looking at 9 songs on the album, though I could be WAY off base and there could be anywhere between 3 and 12 songs. Who knows! Either way, I hope it's an album that's at LEAST an hour long, and 80 minutes would be amazing. DS and MP seem really hyped up about this so I hope they made the maximum amount of music for this project, and I hope there's a Making Of/Behind The Scenes documentary with the album as well. I'd love to see how they put everything together, who wrote what, and how it was all done. One of my favorite parts of Neal Morse's documentaries is seeing Mike piece together the epics, and make arrangement suggestions for everyone, as, despite what some may think of his personality and drumming, his ear for arrangements is pretty top-notch. Being a HUGE music fan really shows because he's got a good ear for how music should sound, especially epics. If you listen to Neal's demos for the second Transatlantic album, and then watch the documentary for it and listen to the final songs, you can really get a sense of how much work went into those demos to change them up into the final pieces, and Mike definitely had a lot to do with that. It's actually one of the things I miss most about his absence in Dream Theater - his arranging.
At any rate, the snippets are good, but I'm not going to over-excite myself over them just yet. It is *promising* at best, and I'm sure a single will drop before September, probably when pre-orders will go out. Judging on what that first single may sound like may determine if I pre-order this one or not. At the very least, I can say I am happy with how these songs SOUND in terms of production. There's a lot of punch to the drums and the bass guitar comes through nicely.
-Marc.
-
The band covering "And the Cradle Will Rock" during the Ultimate Jam paying tribute to David Z. Mike reunited too with The Winery Dogs and played with Dee Snider. I'm looking for the setlist but haven't found anything yet but zinna.tv streamed the event so I think they will upload the full show today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvPbblJfDc
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Listened to the sample again, so here are my thoughts...
Snippet 1 - Very cool keyboard line and sound, love the full-band entrance too. Sounds like it'll be the album opener, but if it isn't great song intro (assuming it is one).
Snippet 2 - This definitely sounds more middle-era Dream Theater to me, though the guitars in the second part of this bit are a bit more defining, though we only hear a measure or so of it.
Snippet 3 - The first vocals we hear! They're not bad, but this sounds like a verse or pre-chorus, so there's no chance to hear a soaring vocal melody for the chorus proper, which I can only hope where JSS shines. As it is, there isn't much else to get from this bit.
Snippet 4 - Some more DT-ish noodling, despite all being in 4/4, is still sounds cool. Is that a key and guitar unison I hear?
Snippet 5 - The second bit of vocals, which sounds like a chorus here! Very short bit, but I liked this one more.
Snippet 6 - Now THIS is more like it. Very DT-instrumental-middle-section-ish here, and it sounds pretty good. Love the over-all feel here, and Mike is employing his usual use of splashes for accents that I enjoy.
Snippet 7 - The third vocal bit, and it's a very short one, sounds like a chorus into a bridge, maybe? Or another verse perhaps.
Snippet 8 - MY FAVORITE BIT! I need MORE of this. The guitars are on FIRE and I love the feel of the whole bit. I hope there's more of that on the album!
Snippet 9 - The last piece we get, and of course, it's the end of a song, which isn't anything too special here.
Assuming Mike pieced this together and each snippet is representative of a unique and separate song, we're looking at 9 songs on the album, though I could be WAY off base and there could be anywhere between 3 and 12 songs. Who knows! Either way, I hope it's an album that's at LEAST an hour long, and 80 minutes would be amazing. DS and MP seem really hyped up about this so I hope they made the maximum amount of music for this project, and I hope there's a Making Of/Behind The Scenes documentary with the album as well. I'd love to see how they put everything together, who wrote what, and how it was all done. One of my favorite parts of Neal Morse's documentaries is seeing Mike piece together the epics, and make arrangement suggestions for everyone, as, despite what some may think of his personality and drumming, his ear for arrangements is pretty top-notch. Being a HUGE music fan really shows because he's got a good ear for how music should sound, especially epics. If you listen to Neal's demos for the second Transatlantic album, and then watch the documentary for it and listen to the final songs, you can really get a sense of how much work went into those demos to change them up into the final pieces, and Mike definitely had a lot to do with that. It's actually one of the things I miss most about his absence in Dream Theater - his arranging.
At any rate, the snippets are good, but I'm not going to over-excite myself over them just yet. It is *promising* at best, and I'm sure a single will drop before September, probably when pre-orders will go out. Judging on what that first single may sound like may determine if I pre-order this one or not. At the very least, I can say I am happy with how these songs SOUND in terms of production. There's a lot of punch to the drums and the bass guitar comes through nicely.
-Marc.
I agree with everything you wrote. The more I listen to it, the more I like it. Color me eager, it just became my most anticipated album of the year.
-
The band covering "And the Cradle Will Rock" during the Ultimate Jam paying tribute to David Z. Mike reunited too with The Winery Dogs and played with Dee Snider. I'm looking for the setlist but haven't found anything yet but zinna.tv streamed the event so I think they will upload the full show today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvPbblJfDc
:metal :metal
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I'm going to double back and read the entire thread later. But I'm assuming everybody's already beaten to death how awful that name is.
Seriously? Sons of Apollo? There were choices....and 5guys collectively agreed on SONS OF APOLLO?
Wyld Stallyns would have been less corny.
I love the lineup, and I'm excited for the release....but I'd be way too embarrassed to tell anyone I listen to......that name....
I'll buy the album, but I'm betting they aren't gonna sell a lot of T-shirts.
Sure but this is a genre that includes bands named things like "Dream Theater", "Symphony X", and "Shadow Gallery" so I think they're in good company.
-
The band covering "And the Cradle Will Rock" during the Ultimate Jam paying tribute to David Z. Mike reunited too with The Winery Dogs and played with Dee Snider. I'm looking for the setlist but haven't found anything yet but zinna.tv streamed the event so I think they will upload the full show today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvPbblJfDc
JSS is such a goofball. :lol
-
The band covering "And the Cradle Will Rock" during the Ultimate Jam paying tribute to David Z. Mike reunited too with The Winery Dogs and played with Dee Snider. I'm looking for the setlist but haven't found anything yet but zinna.tv streamed the event so I think they will upload the full show today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvPbblJfDc
:metal :metal
Sounds Awesome!
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LOVE the band name.
The snippets don't really work for me (other than to put my mind a LITTLE at ease about JSS), but then again, they never do. I thought the new VH was going to SUCK from the snippets and it was my album of the year (and a contender for my album of the decade).
-
The band covering "And the Cradle Will Rock" during the Ultimate Jam paying tribute to David Z. Mike reunited too with The Winery Dogs and played with Dee Snider. I'm looking for the setlist but haven't found anything yet but zinna.tv streamed the event so I think they will upload the full show today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvPbblJfDc
JSS is such a goofball. :lol
Hahahaha. So that song was their live debut? LOL. Awesome.
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Who cares about a name.. Looking forward to hear the music.. 7 years have passed without listening to that guy doing what he does better than anyone else.. It's about time!.. :metal
Write drum parts that repeat the same fills and beats he has been using for the past X years? Yeah nobody else does that better. :neverusethis:
On a serious note I'm going to check the album out, if only to appreciate good sounding drums in prog for a change.
I agree. I started noticing MP's lack of diversity in the later DT years. Although I do love the drums in the beginning for In the Presence of Enemies. I think because as he says he doesn't like to practice or improve. It's like Clint Eastwood acting, you wont be disappointed with the performance but don't expect anything different. MP is still in my top ten drummers by the way but mainly because of what he has done not what is doing.
-
The band covering "And the Cradle Will Rock" during the Ultimate Jam paying tribute to David Z. Mike reunited too with The Winery Dogs and played with Dee Snider. I'm looking for the setlist but haven't found anything yet but zinna.tv streamed the event so I think they will upload the full show today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvPbblJfDc
JSS is such a goofball. :lol
He's giving Russell Allen a run for his money in the ham department.
-
The band covering "And the Cradle Will Rock" during the Ultimate Jam paying tribute to David Z. Mike reunited too with The Winery Dogs and played with Dee Snider. I'm looking for the setlist but haven't found anything yet but zinna.tv streamed the event so I think they will upload the full show today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvPbblJfDc
JSS is such a goofball. :lol
That delivered. (Though I'm not sure that's what I want to see from Sons of Apollo).
Hahahaha. So that song was their live debut? LOL. Awesome.
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Seeing that video, MP looks way more in place. All these guys are rocking and moving along with the music. In DT he was the most visual character because the rest are pretty much statues during a show. I like the energy these guys as a whole radiate.
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And that video alone convinced me to see them live if I get the chance.
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It looks like a fun time, but I am not a fan of Roth era Van Halen. Soto doesn't look 51. I'd much rather see Shattered Fortress, but that ain't happening.
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I like the singer's stage presence. :metal
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I just want to take a moment to point out that JSS can't sing Mean Streak. :D
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The live video had the opposite effect on me: didn't like JSS "cock-rock" stage presence, never liked Sheehan for his playing, tone, or belief in Scientology, never liked this particular song either.
I'm still excited for the album though!
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The live video had the opposite effect on me: didn't like JSS "cock-rock" stage presence, never liked Sheehan for his playing, tone, or belief in Scientology, never liked this particular song either.
I'm still excited for the album though!
This exactly.. Never liked them (or knew about them at all) either.. MP/DS is why most of us are excited anyways..
Who cares about a name.. Looking forward to hear the music.. 7 years have passed without listening to that guy doing what he does better than anyone else.. It's about time!.. :metal
Write drum parts that repeat the same fills and beats he has been using for the past X years? Yeah nobody else does that better. :neverusethis:
On a serious note I'm going to check the album out, if only to appreciate good sounding drums in prog for a change.
I agree. I started noticing MP's lack of diversity in the later DT years. Although I do love the drums in the beginning for In the Presence of Enemies. I think because as he says he doesn't like to practice or improve. It's like Clint Eastwood acting, you wont be disappointed with the performance but don't expect anything different. MP is still in my top ten drummers by the way but mainly because of what he has done not what is doing.
But then, again, if Mike Portnoy is called repetitive, what's left for most drummers out there?.. And this goes for prog drummers too; they aren't individually so diverse either..
-
The live video had the opposite effect on me: didn't like JSS "cock-rock" stage presence, never liked Sheehan for his playing, tone, or belief in Scientology, never liked this particular song either.
I'm still excited for the album though!
This exactly.. Never liked them (or knew about them at all) either.. MP/DS is why most of us are excited anyways..
Who cares about a name.. Looking forward to hear the music.. 7 years have passed without listening to that guy doing what he does better than anyone else.. It's about time!.. :metal
Write drum parts that repeat the same fills and beats he has been using for the past X years? Yeah nobody else does that better. :neverusethis:
On a serious note I'm going to check the album out, if only to appreciate good sounding drums in prog for a change.
I agree. I started noticing MP's lack of diversity in the later DT years. Although I do love the drums in the beginning for In the Presence of Enemies. I think because as he says he doesn't like to practice or improve. It's like Clint Eastwood acting, you wont be disappointed with the performance but don't expect anything different. MP is still in my top ten drummers by the way but mainly because of what he has done not what is doing.
But then, again, if Mike Portnoy is called repetitive, what's left for most drummers out there?.. And this goes for prog drummers too; they aren't individually so diverse either..
I just feel like we have seen his entire bag of tricks for the past 10 years. People would kill to have that bag of tricks but that is what I meant. Neil Peart, Bill Bruford and Mike Mangini to name a few continued to learn and evolve. Even MP has said this himself, he doesn't like to practice. If he can make the living and career he has without continuing to practice and improve more power to him.
-
The live video had the opposite effect on me: didn't like JSS "cock-rock" stage presence, never liked Sheehan for his playing, tone, or belief in Scientology, never liked this particular song either.
I'm still excited for the album though!
This exactly.. Never liked them (or knew about them at all) either.. MP/DS is why most of us are excited anyways..
Who cares about a name.. Looking forward to hear the music.. 7 years have passed without listening to that guy doing what he does better than anyone else.. It's about time!.. :metal
Write drum parts that repeat the same fills and beats he has been using for the past X years? Yeah nobody else does that better. :neverusethis:
On a serious note I'm going to check the album out, if only to appreciate good sounding drums in prog for a change.
I agree. I started noticing MP's lack of diversity in the later DT years. Although I do love the drums in the beginning for In the Presence of Enemies. I think because as he says he doesn't like to practice or improve. It's like Clint Eastwood acting, you wont be disappointed with the performance but don't expect anything different. MP is still in my top ten drummers by the way but mainly because of what he has done not what is doing.
But then, again, if Mike Portnoy is called repetitive, what's left for most drummers out there?.. And this goes for prog drummers too; they aren't individually so diverse either..
I just feel like we have seen his entire bag of tricks for the past 10 years. People would kill to have that bag of tricks but that is what I meant. Neil Peart, Bill Bruford and Mike Mangini to name a few continued to learn and evolve. Even MP has said this himself, he doesn't like to practice. If he can make the living and career he has without continuing to practice and improve more power to him.
I agree, specially the bolded part.
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Who cares about a name.. Looking forward to hear the music.. 7 years have passed without listening to that guy doing what he does better than anyone else.. It's about time!.. :metal
Write drum parts that repeat the same fills and beats he has been using for the past X years? Yeah nobody else does that better. :neverusethis:
On a serious note I'm going to check the album out, if only to appreciate good sounding drums in prog for a change.
I agree. I started noticing MP's lack of diversity in the later DT years. Although I do love the drums in the beginning for In the Presence of Enemies. I think because as he says he doesn't like to practice or improve. It's like Clint Eastwood acting, you wont be disappointed with the performance but don't expect anything different. MP is still in my top ten drummers by the way but mainly because of what he has done not what is doing.
But then, again, if Mike Portnoy is called repetitive, what's left for most drummers out there?.. And this goes for prog drummers too; they aren't individually so diverse either..
I just feel like we have seen his entire bag of tricks for the past 10 years. People would kill to have that bag of tricks but that is what I meant. Neil Peart, Bill Bruford and Mike Mangini to name a few continued to learn and evolve. Even MP has said this himself, he doesn't like to practice. If he can make the living and career he has without continuing to practice and improve more power to him.
But did he say that he doesn't practice, or only that he doesn't like to practice?.. Because every musician practice, least a bit, over the years, and more a guy of his age and dedication to the instrument (not to say obsession with it).. I don't hear any improvement in Mangini's playing since he's in DT, but maybe that's just me.. Talking about MP, yes, I agree that in his later years with DT he didn't "evolve" too much.. But even so he managed to create innovating fills every once in a while, like the ones at the start of TCoT..
Anyways, I'm all for listening to some refreshing drumming, but I won't precisely complain if I *just* happen to like the album or his drumming..
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Who cares about a name.. Looking forward to hear the music.. 7 years have passed without listening to that guy doing what he does better than anyone else.. It's about time!.. :metal
Write drum parts that repeat the same fills and beats he has been using for the past X years? Yeah nobody else does that better. :neverusethis:
On a serious note I'm going to check the album out, if only to appreciate good sounding drums in prog for a change.
I agree. I started noticing MP's lack of diversity in the later DT years. Although I do love the drums in the beginning for In the Presence of Enemies. I think because as he says he doesn't like to practice or improve. It's like Clint Eastwood acting, you wont be disappointed with the performance but don't expect anything different. MP is still in my top ten drummers by the way but mainly because of what he has done not what is doing.
But then, again, if Mike Portnoy is called repetitive, what's left for most drummers out there?.. And this goes for prog drummers too; they aren't individually so diverse either..
I just feel like we have seen his entire bag of tricks for the past 10 years. People would kill to have that bag of tricks but that is what I meant. Neil Peart, Bill Bruford and Mike Mangini to name a few continued to learn and evolve. Even MP has said this himself, he doesn't like to practice. If he can make the living and career he has without continuing to practice and improve more power to him.
But did he say that he doesn't practice, or only that he doesn't like to practice?.. Because every musician practice, least a bit, over the years, and more a guy of his age and dedication to the instrument (not to say obsession with it).. I don't hear any improvement in Mangini's playing since he's in DT, but maybe that's just me.. Talking about MP, yes, I agree that in his later years with DT he didn't "evolve" too much.. But even so he managed to create innovating fills every once in a while, like the ones at the start of TCoT..
Definitely not Lars Ulrich :biggrin:
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Lars Ulrich is actually much better nowadays than he was in the DM slump. People need to get off that cirklejerk.
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Who cares about a name.. Looking forward to hear the music.. 7 years have passed without listening to that guy doing what he does better than anyone else.. It's about time!.. :metal
Write drum parts that repeat the same fills and beats he has been using for the past X years? Yeah nobody else does that better. :neverusethis:
On a serious note I'm going to check the album out, if only to appreciate good sounding drums in prog for a change.
I agree. I started noticing MP's lack of diversity in the later DT years. Although I do love the drums in the beginning for In the Presence of Enemies. I think because as he says he doesn't like to practice or improve. It's like Clint Eastwood acting, you wont be disappointed with the performance but don't expect anything different. MP is still in my top ten drummers by the way but mainly because of what he has done not what is doing.
But then, again, if Mike Portnoy is called repetitive, what's left for most drummers out there?.. And this goes for prog drummers too; they aren't individually so diverse either..
I just feel like we have seen his entire bag of tricks for the past 10 years. People would kill to have that bag of tricks but that is what I meant. Neil Peart, Bill Bruford and Mike Mangini to name a few continued to learn and evolve. Even MP has said this himself, he doesn't like to practice. If he can make the living and career he has without continuing to practice and improve more power to him.
But did he say that he doesn't practice, or only that he doesn't like to practice?.. Because every musician practice, least a bit, over the years, and more a guy of his age and dedication to the instrument (not to say obsession with it).. I don't hear any improvement in Mangini's playing since he's in DT, but maybe that's just me.. Talking about MP, yes, I agree that in his later years with DT he didn't "evolve" too much.. But even so he managed to create innovating fills every once in a while, like the ones at the start of TCoT..
Anyways, I'm all for listening to some refreshing drumming, but I won't precisely complain if I *just* happen to like the album or his drumming..
He also said he is CONSTANTLY playing, in various bands of various genres, and while he doesn't spend hours and hours on that new paradiddle, he does keep his chops fresh.
Frankly, I STILL hear stuff from Mike that makes me go "WTF?", even if it isn't because it's superhuman. The pattern in the pre-chorus and chorus of The Storm is as special as anything he's put out, in my opinion.
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Lars Ulrich is actually much better nowadays than he was in the DM slump. People need to get off that cirklejerk.
I haven't heard him play live lately but thank you for that disturbing image.
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Lars Ulrich is actually much better nowadays than he was in the DM slump. People need to get off that cirklejerk.
I haven't heard him play live lately but thank you for that disturbing image.
He was pretty bad when I saw them in NJ earlier this year. Even my non musical friend kept saying that Metallica was very sloppy. Didn't ruin the show or anything, but the criticism is there for a reason.
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From MP's forum:
But what to call the next great supergroup? “Derek was mainly the one behind the name,” says Portnoy. “I have a list that I keep on my phone of about a hundred different band names, which I constantly have to refer to every time I have a new band every year (laughs). So, I pulled up the list and Apollo was one of the names on the list. It was a word that both of us really liked. We started fiddling with different variations of the word. One of the original band names we were working with was Apollo Creed, the character from the ‘Rocky’ movies, but after lots of different discussions on different variations, Derek suggested SONS OF APOLLO and it seemed to stick. Apollo is the God of Music so with that in mind it seemed like a fitting name.”
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(https://i.imgur.com/A2UlvxT.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/A2UlvxT.jpg)
Unless it's trademarked, that guy is shit out of luck.
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The live video had the opposite effect on me: didn't like JSS "cock-rock" stage presence, never liked Sheehan for his playing, tone, or belief in Scientology, never liked this particular song either.
The obvious question there is, can those who buy this album live with the fact that a portion of Sheehan's earning are likely going to Tom Cruise? :lol :lol
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Well, strictly speaking, a retweet without any explanation does on its face mean, "I agree." And, by extension, if there isn't any explanation carving out any part of it that isn't agreed with, that means agreement with the whole thing. But, yeah, "People get lazy on social media," as in regular speech. So I think you are still correct that we shouldn't necessarily assume something negative, especially if there isn't a pattern as there is with certain other people that are the topic of discussion in this thread.
Yeah that's pretty much my thought as well. A retweet to me without anything else is full agreement of the original tweet. But like you said, there is no pattern of this with DS, in fact he's been really great with addressing his time in DT publicly since he was fired.
Yes, I agree. DS has been very cool. Probably just a one off moment.
Maybe not. (In reply to Mike's Tweet saying it's been 20 years since he was in a band with Derek)
https://twitter.com/bloodsweatmusic/status/892579525795643392
(https://i.imgur.com/aFaULEd.png)
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Why would he say it has been 20 years when it has only been 18? Are we rounding up now? It has been 10 years since Neal Morse Band's last record!!! :lol
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I asked to Ron Thal on Facebook:
Amazing news, Ron! How much input did you have on the songwriting?
- Complete teamwork by all, happy to say :) Very involved :)
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Watched the live debut clip yesterday, got me even more excited for the project!
Soto sounds great live, but what struck me is the fact that Ron Thal can sing!
With Soto, Sheehan and Thal, I'm not at all worried about the singing department of Sons of Apollo!
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Yeah, the live clip was awesome! I like their chemistry, and I really like how animated on stage they all are. :tup
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1) Sherinian as a music in his solo album Black Utopia called Sons of Anu, don't know if there's any relation with Sons of Apollo.
2) Psychotic Symphony --> PS --> Portnoy Sherinian
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1) Sherinian as a music in his solo album Black Utopia called Sons of Anu, don't know if there's any relation with Sons of Apollo.
2) Psychotic Symphony --> PS --> Portnoy Sherinian
Cool nugget :tup
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My only doubt about this group is about Bumblefoot. I only heard about him when he was in GNR, and my only thoughts were "what a silly name". I don't know anything else about his career, or if he's on the same level as the other guys.
For the rest of the band:
- MP is my favorite prog drummer. I really hope this band takes off and he can focus on it.
- Derek is awesome and i think he's the main composer here (which is good, because his solo albuns are very prog metal and are very good).
- Billy Sheehan is a great bass player and showman. He definetely got the chops to play with the rest of the guys. He wouldn't be my choice because he's done lots of other things with MP in the last years. I would love to see a guy like Mike LePond here (or Symphony X's first bass player, Thomas Miller, that would be a dream), but ok, can't complain about Billy.
- JSS is an incredible singer that can sing metalqprog/har rock/pop...you name it. Very happy that he's the choice.
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(https://i.imgur.com/A2UlvxT.jpg)
Unless it's trademarked, that guy is shit out of luck.
Yeah, and if it's the same band I saw the link to - trying and failing miserably to do a passable "Echoes" by Floyd - then he certainly knows "crap", because he's been delivering it for 10 years. :)
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I agree about Mike Lepond, he is a fantastic bass player and songwriter. His solo album "Silent Assassins" is a metal masterpiece! He is not the original bass player for Symphony X, but he's been with them for most of their catalogue up until now.
He would be a good fit in Mike Portnoy's group for sure, even though I seriously doubt they can top Mike Leponds Silent Assassins album.
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20 Years?
when did Mike and Derek last play with PSMS?
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20 Years?
when did Mike and Derek last play with PSMS?
Last month? Ba-dum-PAH! Be here all week. Try the veal!
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I agree about Mike Lepond, he is a fantastic bass player and songwriter. His solo album "Silent Assassins" is a metal masterpiece! He is not the original bass player for Symphony X, but he's been with them for most of their catalogue up until now.
He would be a good fit in Mike Portnoy's group for sure, even though I seriously doubt they can top Mike Leponds Silent Assassins album.
That is an awesome album!! :metal
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With Soto, Sheehan and Thal, I'm not at all worried about the singing department of Sons of Apollo!
I can imagine something like this happening:
MP: Guys, I know all of you sing very well and are much better vocalsits than me, but I really feel we should add some grows on this section, you know. I can make it work out, don't worry.
*15 mins later
ROOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHH
:rollin
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The full Ultimate Jam is online at zinna.tv the quality is low.
Did someone listen to Mike's interview with Eddie Trunk? It's available here https://player.fm/series/podcastone-1426788/et-cheap-trick-greta-van-fleet-mike-portnoy but it's not working on my smartphone. Mike's part begins at 1:02:00
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Cool, thanks for that Keybozard Wiz.
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Three epics he says, should be interesting.
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(https://i.imgur.com/A2UlvxT.jpg)
Unless it's trademarked, that guy is shit out of luck.
Is that actually so? I remember that somewhere in the US there is a "Burger King" that has nothing to do with the chain. It was there first, and thus has priority in the areas it had expanded to until the chain came around.
EDIT: Here we go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burger_King_(Mattoon,_Illinois)
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Three epics he says, should be interesting.
Let's hope those are good epics...
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Majority of material composed by Portnoy/Sherinian/Ron. Sheehan less involved. Lyrics and melodies by Sherinian/Portnoy/Soto. Interesting to know.
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(https://i.imgur.com/A2UlvxT.jpg)
Unless it's trademarked, that guy is shit out of luck.
Is that actually so? I remember that somewhere in the US there is a "Burger King" that has nothing to do with the chain. It was there first, and thus has priority in the areas it had expanded to until the chain came around.
EDIT: Here we go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burger_King_(Mattoon,_Illinois)
Interesting
The court ruled that, because of the federal trademark registration, and because the federal law indicated priority over state law,[4] Florida's Burger King had rights to the name almost everywhere in the United States, including in Illinois, except in the Mattoon area, where the Hoots family had prior actual use. As a result of the case, the Hootses cannot use the name "Burger King" outside of the Mattoon area, and the Florida chain cannot use the name in the Mattoon area.
I'm not sure how this applies to a band name though being that a band doesn't have a physical store front. I'd be interested in knowing how this plays out. My initial thought is that if the original band didn't trademark the name, then they have no argument for another band coming along with the same name. I'm guessing both will co-exist, but the former (and lesser known) will just be like that Burger King.
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My local bar where I used to live is called "The Cracker Barrel", and not a triangle peg game or chicken fried steak to be found anywhere.
Look, I'm not a trademark attorney, but I know enough to know that Mike et al shouldn't be losing sleep.
One element of "trademark infringement" is "likelihood of confusion". Now, they are both bands, so that's a problem. But "strength of the trademark owner's mark" is a factor (have they released albums? Played shows? Is there an audience for that band?). You have to show ACTUAL confusion; have any of you picked up Mike's record thinking it was the old band's magnum opus? Also, what was the intent? Did Mike and Derek actually think they were going to siphon off some of the existing Sons of Apollo audience? (I don't think the guitar player's mom and dad count as "audience").
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Yea and I think that's likely the case. I do wonder if the old band would just be looking for a payday though.
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They did a good job with the cover.
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https://proglodytes.com/2017/08/04/interview-with-derek-sherinian-dream-theater-planet-x-and-sons-of-apollo/
Derek is making the band out to be the Us vs Them kinda thing...
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https://proglodytes.com/2017/08/04/interview-with-derek-sherinian-dream-theater-planet-x-and-sons-of-apollo/
Derek is making the band out to be the Us vs Them kinda thing...
Jesus Christ, who cares?
If it gives this band a little bit of a competitive fire, unlike the last several Mike bands, then I am ALL FOR IT.
Hell, it's not just MP's projects that needed this kick, but DT that need a good kick in the ass too. Maybe some competitiveness would be good.
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https://proglodytes.com/2017/08/04/interview-with-derek-sherinian-dream-theater-planet-x-and-sons-of-apollo/
Derek is making the band out to be the Us vs Them kinda thing...
Exactly what I thought of when I read it. Also, I didn't really like the way he talked about Jordan, makig it sound like he and JP are just cyborgs, but that's another topic of discussion. What I do find funny is the fact that he talks about his relationship with Mike as if they were always the best music partners ever, when, in reality, Mike was one of the first people to want to replace Derek with Jordan, he's even said multiple times (and in the last few years) that he still thinks it was a good call to fire him. I don't think Derek is considering all the facts here.
Also, something that I haven't seem discussed here is that this is, according to Mike, his new "main band"... which he also said for AMOB at first (see how that turned out) and, later, TWD (inactive since 2015 and now in hiatus for, at least, a couple more years). I do wonder if SOA will be a real priority for him if he's gonna treat it as just another band he's in for now. The potential for this band being big is already there, I hope Mike decides to do something with that.
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I just actually read the interview... you guys are way to sensitive. Like, way, way too sensitive :lol
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https://proglodytes.com/2017/08/04/interview-with-derek-sherinian-dream-theater-planet-x-and-sons-of-apollo/
Derek is making the band out to be the Us vs Them kinda thing...
Huh? Did I miss it? Where did he do that?
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Yeah, I don't see any issue.
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I mean, he said he started Planet X as an FU to DT, which is fine and creatively actually pretty awesome. Bands that have something to prove are great, and clearly he doesn't harbor any resentment anymore.
I've also seen people on DTF refer to JR as a machine or robot, usually out of admiration.
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It's the same people over and over again looking for reasons to criticise anything connected with MP. This current obsession with anything Derek says or tweets is an extension of that. Honestly folks, life is far, far too short. To paraphrase Ricky Gervais, you'll be dead soon. Who bloody cares?
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The Winery Dogs aren't "inactive since 2015". They toured last year, and just released a live album TODAY. All MP's bands release an album every two or three years, much more active than a bunch of bands which are deemed "more active". So I don't get this kind of comment at all.
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The Winery Dogs aren't "inactive since 2015". They toured last year, and just released a live album TODAY. All MP's bands release an album every two or three years, much more active than a bunch of bands which are deemed "more active". So I don't get this kind of comment at all.
Portnoy was quoted in the article the other day as saying the Dogs are now on a break, several years after saying they were a full time band.
In 2011, he said Adrenaline Mob would be a full time band, not just a project, and two years later he left the band.
That is called a pattern. It seems like he keeps throwing stuff against the wall to see what will stick.
I will put it this way: if this new band doesn't go over with fans well and/or doesn't generate album and ticket sales that make him happy, by 2020 we will be talking about Sons of Apollo as another Portnoy band that came and went.
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Mike only quit two bands: Dream Theater and Adrenaline Mob. The other ones that did not continue did so for other reasons. Liquid Tension is no more because Jordan joined Dream Theater, and now there´s no chance to continue anything because of the whole situation of Mike leaving DT. Transatlantic was always meant to be a side project anyway, and Mike´s in two other bands with Neal Morse, so why ressurrecting that? He quit Adrenaline Mob because he couldn´t juggle all his other stuff with it, and quite frankly, I don´t think he wanted to tour such low scale places like they´re STILL doing now. The Winery Dogs are a full on band which is on hiatus right now due to them having other commitments, but at the same time they all said they´re in no way finished as a band. Two studio albums and two live ones in four years is not a bad average, and they´ll be back in the second half of 2018. Flying Colors is the same: two studio albums and two live ones in six years, all while the band members are involved with much more stable bands. And hey, where in the bible of rock and roll is it written that one must have a "main" project to focus on? He could have gotten a bunch of starting musicians and formed a "main" band and followed with that, but it´s not what he chose to do. I dunno why it puts people off that he´s juggling all those bands, since there´s something for all kinds of tastes in them. I for one chose to check them out and like most of what I hear, and the things I don´t like I don´t listen to, regardless of it being the "main" thing or not.
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I'm fine with MP being in multiple bands, but I'm glad another poster pointed it out. Only time will truly tell if this is an actual priority for him and or his main band, like he keeps seeming to say.
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So he basically formed PSMS into a real band switching guitarists and adding vocalist.
I'll wait till they release a full song. But based on who's in it, I'm hearing a more Old school style rock mixed with prog metal. I haven't checked the clips yet.
I loved PSMS, not sure if I'm liking this . Haven't checked out any samples either. May be a game time decision for me.
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So he basically formed PSMS into a real band switching guitarists and adding vocalist.
I'll wait till they release a full song. But based on who's in it, I'm hearing a more Old school style rock mixed with prog metal. I haven't checked the clips yet.
I loved PSMS, not sure if I'm liking this . Haven't checked out any samples either. May be a game time decision for me.
I have that live DVD too, and loved it!!!
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Mike only quit two bands: Dream Theater and Adrenaline Mob. The other ones that did not continue did so for other reasons. Liquid Tension is no more because Jordan joined Dream Theater, and now there´s no chance to continue anything because of the whole situation of Mike leaving DT. Transatlantic was always meant to be a side project anyway, and Mike´s in two other bands with Neal Morse, so why ressurrecting that? He quit Adrenaline Mob because he couldn´t juggle all his other stuff with it, and quite frankly, I don´t think he wanted to tour such low scale places like they´re STILL doing now. The Winery Dogs are a full on band which is on hiatus right now due to them having other commitments, but at the same time they all said they´re in no way finished as a band. Two studio albums and two live ones in four years is not a bad average, and they´ll be back in the second half of 2018. Flying Colors is the same: two studio albums and two live ones in six years, all while the band members are involved with much more stable bands. And hey, where in the bible of rock and roll is it written that one must have a "main" project to focus on? He could have gotten a bunch of starting musicians and formed a "main" band and followed with that, but it´s not what he chose to do. I dunno why it puts people off that he´s juggling all those bands, since there´s something for all kinds of tastes in them. I for one chose to check them out and like most of what I hear, and the things I don´t like I don´t listen to, regardless of it being the "main" thing or not.
Re: FIRST BOLDED PART
That kind of proves my point about throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. Adrenaline Mob didn't stick, so he explored other options, giving him the "I couldn't fit them into my schedule" out (which I doubt anyone had a problem with).
Re: SECOND BOLDED PART
Nowhere, and I did not say I did. All I was saying was that Portnoy has a recent history of saying how a new band he is in is a full time band, not a side project, only for him to shortly thereafter leave the band or go on a break, leading to my point that the same thing will happen with Sons of Apollo if they did not go over well with fans.
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I think the main issue (though this doesn't apply to all of them) is that he is forming these with very busy people.
You can't put Billy Sheehan or Richie Kotzen in a band and expect them to not have months/years of other stuff to do as well.
This new band will have the same problem. People were doubting Sheehan would even be in it because of how busy he is. Bumbefoot's a pretty busy guy too.
So it's not JUST MP taking breaks, it's that all of these are formed with super busy people. DT doesn't have that issue. JR is a robot, so he doesn't count, but the other guys who actually contribute to DT mostly just do DT.
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I was not taking this as another opportunity to say something bad about Mike or anything like that, I just pointed that, as Kev said, he has a track record of saying "this (insert Mike's new band name here) is going to be my main band/priority", and, after a while, it just doesn't work that way. It's not a bad thing that he doesn't just stick to one band, in fact, I admire the guy for releasing that many albums with so many different bands/people in a short period of time, I just think we can't take his word when he says something like that, because he has a history that says otherwise.
About TWD being inactive sonce 2015, I was mistaken about that, since I don't really like the band and haven't followed them too closely, but I do know their live album was recorded a long time ago, so it's not like they've been too active anyway, they just didn't release it before. I even read an interview with Kotzen where he said that even though he really likes TWD, he'll always focus more on his solo careeer, because that's what he likes to do more, and that's totally fine.
I do hope SOA becomes a priority for them, and not just another side project.
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Who cares about a name.. Looking forward to hear the music.. 7 years have passed without listening to that guy doing what he does better than anyone else.. It's about time!.. :metal
Write drum parts that repeat the same fills and beats he has been using for the past X years? Yeah nobody else does that better. :neverusethis:
On a serious note I'm going to check the album out, if only to appreciate good sounding drums in prog for a change.
I agree. I started noticing MP's lack of diversity in the later DT years. Although I do love the drums in the beginning for In the Presence of Enemies. I think because as he says he doesn't like to practice or improve. It's like Clint Eastwood acting, you wont be disappointed with the performance but don't expect anything different. MP is still in my top ten drummers by the way but mainly because of what he has done not what is doing.
But then, again, if Mike Portnoy is called repetitive, what's left for most drummers out there?.. And this goes for prog drummers too; they aren't individually so diverse either..
I just feel like we have seen his entire bag of tricks for the past 10 years. People would kill to have that bag of tricks but that is what I meant. Neil Peart, Bill Bruford and Mike Mangini to name a few continued to learn and evolve. Even MP has said this himself, he doesn't like to practice. If he can make the living and career he has without continuing to practice and improve more power to him.
I don't hear any improvement in Mangini's playing since he's in DT, but maybe that's just me..
Mangini do talk alot about working on improving and coming up with new fills on upcoming tours, just check his YT page. He practices alot and he's constantly try to push himself on his instrument.
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I just feel like we have seen his entire bag of tricks for the past 10 years. People would kill to have that bag of tricks but that is what I meant. Neil Peart, Bill Bruford and Mike Mangini to name a few continued to learn and evolve. Even MP has said this himself, he doesn't like to practice. If he can make the living and career he has without continuing to practice and improve more power to him.
I don't hear any improvement in Mangini's playing since he's in DT, but maybe that's just me..
Mangini do talk alot about working on improving and coming up with new fills on upcoming tours, just check his YT page. He practices alot and he's constantly try to push himself on his instrument.
I'm sure he does.. And maybe when that can help [and is helping] him to evolve as a musician, I still don't hear what has bring his constant practice and so high technique to DT besides what we have already heard in ADToE and probably some new things in DT12.. He needs more time, I'm sure of it, but I don't think he (just to talk about MM) has been more diverse than MP regarding their contribution to DT.. And, yeap, then again, diversity doesn't necessarily mean quality either, so...
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This is the same old crap I've heard about for bands with longevity. No musicians sound similar in their style because you've heard them so much over decades.
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This is the same old crap I've heard about for bands with longevity. No musicians sound similar in their style because you've heard them so much over decades.
I don't know if you're saying that for what I wrote because you didn't quote, but at least *I* was saying something entirely different.. Sure their styles aren't similar and have no reason to be similar.. The talk here is about practice and how can this make evolve a musician within certain band.. However, in my last post I included the "quality" factor, giving the real reason why I prefer Portnoy over Mangini.. But I'm not asking MM to be MP, in fact I'm not even asking him to be better (than what he already is); I'm just describing what I feel about the two of them..
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Re: SECOND BOLDED PART
Nowhere, and I did not say I did. All I was saying was that Portnoy has a recent history of saying how a new band he is in is a full time band, not a side project, only for him to shortly thereafter leave the band or go on a break, leading to my point that the same thing will happen with Sons of Apollo if they did not go over well with fans.
Well, we could just retroactively say that Sons of Apollo is simply PSMS having gone through three lineup changes. Maybe Bumblefoot even gets busy and gets replaced with McAlpine or Gilette eventually :lol
I know it sounds silly, but that's just how today's industry differs from what it was even 10 years ago. Gone are the days of one band which has a longer term contractual relationship with a record label, where you expect to see the band evolve as time goes on, and here are the days where the same people affiliated people get 1-2 album deals with a variety of labels and wind up constantly re-branding themselves until something finally sticks.
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This is the same old crap I've heard about for bands with longevity. No musicians sound similar in their style because you've heard them so much over decades.
I don't know if you're saying that for what I wrote because you didn't quote, but at least *I* was saying something entirely different.. Sure their styles aren't similar and have no reason to be similar.. The talk here is about practice and how can this make evolve a musician within certain band.. However, in my last post I included the "quality" factor, giving the real reason why I prefer Portnoy over Mangini.. But I'm not asking MM to be MP, in fact I'm not even asking him to be better (than what he already is); I'm just describing what I feel about the two of them..
No, I'm talking about players not growing. When we here a drummer for multiple decades they are not going to change that much in style. They don't add to their repertoire that makes it mind blowing. it's still their style.
I heard people complain about Neil Peart that was as an example.
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I think there should be more competition between the two bands. It energizes everybody involved and can be inspiring. DT have had the market cornered on their brand of prog metal for years, if a DT-style Portnoy side project started to gain traction (unlikely) they might be motivated to work harder on the next album. The fans win in the end.
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@kingshmegland - Ok, I agree with that..
@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Music is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..
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@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Musi is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..
So basically MP fans. :lol
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@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Musi is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..
So basically MP fans. :lol
:rollin
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I really hope that MP has started SOA not only for pure revenge on DT. I believe that He just miss that kind of music in his life. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be endless war between MP and DT... and yes, I agree that he should be more concentrated on one project, but I think that he's not looking for a fame and money with any of his actual projects. Well maybe money ;) but I mean anyway, I'm hoping that all of his post DT work and projects was made not only to show how much he can do with or without Dream Theater....
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I really hope that MP has started SOA not only for pure revenge on DT. I believe that He just miss that kind of music in his life. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be endless war between MP and DT... and yes, I agree that he should be more concentrated on one project, but I think that he's not looking for a fame and money with any of his actual projects. Well maybe money ;) but I mean anyway, I'm hoping that all of his post DT work and projects was made not only to show how much he can do with or without Dream Theater....
We can't know what's on his head, but think that he started doing side projects before leaving DT.. So back then it'd have been impossible for him to think like that.. And now he's doing what he already said he would do: being in these so many bands, regardless if they're permanent bands or just temporary projects..
Fame?.. He already has it.. Money?.. Sure.. But one thing I wouldn't doubt about him is that he's doing it mainly because he simply loves music.. His personal confrontation with DT comes more from the side of things he says publicly about them, not from what he does musically.
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I really hope that MP has started SOA not only for pure revenge on DT. I believe that He just miss that kind of music in his life. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be endless war between MP and DT... and yes, I agree that he should be more concentrated on one project, but I think that he's not looking for a fame and money with any of his actual projects. Well maybe money ;) but I mean anyway, I'm hoping that all of his post DT work and projects was made not only to show how much he can do with or without Dream Theater....
We can't know what's on his head, but think that he started doing side projects before leaving DT.. So back then it'd have been impossible for him to think like that.. And now he's doing what he already said he would do: being in these so many bands, regardless if they're permanent bands or just temporary projects..
Fame?.. He already has it.. Money?.. Sure.. But one thing I wouldn't doubt about him is that he's doing it mainly because he simply loves music.. His personal confrontation with DT comes more from the side of things he says publicly about them, not from what he does musically.
I hope You're right, I'm thinking the same way. I obviously don't know him personal, but it seems like a funny straight forward person who loves what he's doing.
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Fame?.. He already has it.. Money?.. Sure.. But one thing I wouldn't doubt about him is that he's doing it mainly because he simply loves music..
I agree, I don't think that should ever be in doubt - I remember reading a post somewhere from a dude attending I believe a cruise or another, and that he remembered doing a cover MP did a quite particular fill that was in the song and that the dude liked... he was like "He organized the cruise, took care of all the organization, put together all the setlist and still he remembered while playing a cover to do the exact drum fill that was on the original song", this is just an example of how the guy is just passionate about music, and how he remembers a lot of stuff just like a passionate fan would do.
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Still, Portnoy is clever... He could have asked Eric Gillette and Conner Green for the band but he didn't. He chose big names, people who are well known in the music industry. Don't you think he *also* wants to make a little money.. next to the music loving thing?
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Offcourse he wants this project to be a success. Bigger names not only mean more money, they also lead to bigger concert attendance and increase chances to play in bigger venues, have better slots at festivals, and have better promotion and tour circumstances in general. And, in case this band also goes on hiatus, getting the most exposure possible is good for any artist involved for the sake of their careers outside of this band. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Music is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..
I am not sure I agree with that, generally speaking.
Hearing the Beach Boy's Pet Sounds made Paul McCartney want to one-up them with Sgt. Pepper, for example.
Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition, so long as it comes from a good place (wanting to make better music for the thrill of it, not out of spite or anger).
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I think competition often leads to better products
Anyone else remember WWF vs. WCW Monday nights? That produced some of the best wrestling from either brand and it went downhill once WWF won that battle.
I didn't really think of this as competition though, just figured it was a musical direction Portnoy wanted to return to. But if it turns out to be them and DT battling it out for best prog metal band? So be it, I think we will all be treated to some awesome music. I just hope it's due to wanting to be the best, not to get back at your old band mates or something. Positivity not negativity is what I'd want from both sides.
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But if it turns out to be them and DT battling it out for best prog metal band?
Then it's Haken
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@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Music is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..
I am not sure I agree with that, generally speaking.
Hearing the Beach Boy's Pet Sounds made Paul McCartney want to one-up them with Sgt. Pepper, for example.
Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition, so long as it comes from a good place (wanting to make better music for the thrill of it, not out of spite or anger).
Great example, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
Derek has always come off as a classy guy, I see him trying to invoke a friendly competition with DT and I find it exciting. If this project lives up to the hype, DT will be motivated to do something even better.
I think competition often leads to better products
Anyone else remember WWF vs. WCW Monday nights? That produced some of the best wrestling from either brand and it went downhill once WWF won that battle.
I didn't really think of this as competition though, just figured it was a musical direction Portnoy wanted to return to. But if it turns out to be them and DT battling it out for best prog metal band? So be it, I think we will all be treated to some awesome music. I just hope it's due to wanting to be the best, not to get back at your old band mates or something. Positivity not negativity is what I'd want from both sides.
Yup. And if it was to get back at old band mates then the music would inevitably not be very good. Like you said, it sounds like this was a natural progression for MP. The competition is just a bonus.
Another example: This is like when Bruce Dickinson started making metal again. I'm not implying there's a reunion coming out of this, but it definitely lit a fire under Maiden imo.
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I don't really wan't to see more of the MP vs DT thing, but I do think, as some of you have said, that great things can come out of competition. To give another example, just look at how Megadeth was created. Mustaine was fired from Metallica and he hated the guys so much for that, that he wanted to make a heavier, faster, more agressive band, and he surely did. :metal
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@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Music is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..
I am not sure I agree with that, generally speaking.
Hearing the Beach Boy's Pet Sounds made Paul McCartney want to one-up them with Sgt. Pepper, for example.
Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition, so long as it comes from a good place (wanting to make better music for the thrill of it, not out of spite or anger).
Great example, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
Derek has always come off as a classy guy, I see him trying to invoke a friendly competition with DT and I find it exciting. If this project lives up to the hype, DT will be motivated to do something even better.
I think competition often leads to better products
Anyone else remember WWF vs. WCW Monday nights? That produced some of the best wrestling from either brand and it went downhill once WWF won that battle.
I didn't really think of this as competition though, just figured it was a musical direction Portnoy wanted to return to. But if it turns out to be them and DT battling it out for best prog metal band? So be it, I think we will all be treated to some awesome music. I just hope it's due to wanting to be the best, not to get back at your old band mates or something. Positivity not negativity is what I'd want from both sides.
Yup. And if it was to get back at old band mates then the music would inevitably not be very good. Like you said, it sounds like this was a natural progression for MP. The competition is just a bonus.
Another example: This is like when Bruce Dickinson started making metal again. I'm not implying there's a reunion coming out of this, but it definitely lit a fire under Maiden imo.
My point wasn't that certain situation (like competition) cannot end up being (after hundred of things that actually make the music happen) the initial point to a great album or band.. What I'm trying to say is that these kind of feelings (like competitiveness) doesn't necessarily bring inspiration to the musician, and I think is safe to say that have either nothing to do with the compositional process that really ends up making the music.. I'm neither saying that feelings cannot inspire in some way, because they often do.. What instead I think is that to be motivated because you must "win" a band battle won't be followed by quality music, unless you are a quality musician already..
All those examples don't prove that competition produce better music, but (at best) only that the musicians involved in it were capable of making that better music..
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Happy for Jeff Scott Soto. Ron Thal is ok, kinda hoping something more along the lines of Bruce Kulick.
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https://proglodytes.com/2017/08/04/interview-with-derek-sherinian-dream-theater-planet-x-and-sons-of-apollo/
Derek is making the band out to be the Us vs Them kinda thing...
Exactly what I thought of when I read it. Also, I didn't really like the way he talked about Jordan, makig it sound like he and JP are just cyborgs, but that's another topic of discussion. What I do find funny is the fact that he talks about his relationship with Mike as if they were always the best music partners ever, when, in reality, Mike was one of the first people to want to replace Derek with Jordan, he's even said multiple times (and in the last few years) that he still thinks it was a good call to fire him. I don't think Derek is considering all the facts here.
Why not let the guy that was IN the moment make that call? We have no idea what was ACTUALLY said, what was ACTUALLY discussed, and what the ACTUAL emotions were at the time (or now). If that's how Derek sees it, he was there, he had a front row seat. He may or may not be weighing each fact at the same weight, but that's his prerogative, isn't it?
Also, something that I haven't seem discussed here is that this is, according to Mike, his new "main band"... which he also said for AMOB at first (see how that turned out) and, later, TWD (inactive since 2015 and now in hiatus for, at least, a couple more years). I do wonder if SOA will be a real priority for him if he's gonna treat it as just another band he's in for now. The potential for this band being big is already there, I hope Mike decides to do something with that.
I called TWD right at the get go, and that's not because Mike decided it wasn't a real priority. That was because Richie decided he wanted to do something different. He always struck me as a solo guy who dabbles in bands, as opposed to a guy that wants to be in bands and did some solo stuff on the side. As for AMOB, well, I can't speak for that, as I've not heard anything specific about it, but one can speculate that it didn't go in a direction that Mike wanted it to, and I think it's VERY telling - to the point of being the only real point that matters - that Mike has made clear that THIS is not only his priority, but that he's back in terms of being "band leader". He didn't lead AMOB (I believe that is Mike Orlando) and he's not really the main guy in TWD either (I believe that TWD are at the whim of Richie Kotzen).
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I was not taking this as another opportunity to say something bad about Mike or anything like that, I just pointed that, as Kev said, he has a track record of saying "this (insert Mike's new band name here) is going to be my main band/priority", and, after a while, it just doesn't work that way. It's not a bad thing that he doesn't just stick to one band, in fact, I admire the guy for releasing that many albums with so many different bands/people in a short period of time, I just think we can't take his word when he says something like that, because he has a history that says otherwise.
About TWD being inactive sonce 2015, I was mistaken about that, since I don't really like the band and haven't followed them too closely, but I do know their live album was recorded a long time ago, so it's not like they've been too active anyway, they just didn't release it before. I even read an interview with Kotzen where he said that even though he really likes TWD, he'll always focus more on his solo careeer, because that's what he likes to do more, and that's totally fine.
I do hope SOA becomes a priority for them, and not just another side project.
I mean this politely, but if you and Kev are going to criticize Mike and Derek for "fact selection" then you are going to ignore that AMOB and TWD were/are not "mike led bands" and therefore not his to decide how they roll and whether they roll, then you're kind of guilty of the same crime. As I noted above, Mike (and Marlene, at the time) saw Amob as a sort of "Disturbed", which was a serious, focused metal outfit. I don't at all think that they envisioned the sort of camp and parody that it became. It is (as I understand it) Orlando and Allen's band, NOT Portnoy's, so it can hardly be Mike's fault if it didn't turn out the way he would have needed it to for him to commit more meaningfully. As for TWD, well, when your singer/guitar player/main songwriter decides he has other priorities, well, again, not really Mike's fault. I think he really DID commit to TWD as if it was a main, long term project. I also think that his statement that he is back as "band leader" for Sons of Apollo is meaningful, in relation to your comments.
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@Mosh - Actually, no.. That's not how it works or should've work.. Music is no competition, and inspiration doesn't come from it.. Only the fans who wanna see more of the MP vs DT bs would "win" with something like that..
I disagree with that to a degree. There has been some great, great music made from people with something to prove, and a little healthy competition or creative tension can do wonders for a band. The Stones. Much of the Stones catalogue after 1975 is a reaction by either Mick or Keith to top something the other has done. I don't think you can say that there wasn't at least a LITTLE "fuck you!" in the creation of Heaven and Hell/Mob Rules versus Blizzard of Ozz/Diary of a Madman.
Slightly different circumstances, but the 90's Yes catalogue is often a result of some friendly (and not so friendly) competition. Megadeth's entire career has been built on the "not at all friendly" competition with Metallica. Van Halen; I think ADKOT is a direct result of Dave saying "I have something to prove here!". Pink Floyd.
It's not that the MUSIC ITSELF is the basis of the competition, but I absolutely do agree that from a human standpoint, when some people get pushed up against the wall and find themselves in a competitive environment, it affects what they're doing, and often for the positive.
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My point wasn't that certain situation (like competition) cannot end up being (after hundred of things that actually make the music happen) the initial point to a great album or band.. What I'm trying to say is that these kind of feelings (like competitiveness) doesn't necessarily bring inspiration to the musician, and I think is safe to say that have either nothing to do with the compositional process that really ends up making the music.. I'm neither saying that feelings cannot inspire in some way, because they often do.. What instead I think is that to be motivated because you must "win" a band battle won't be followed by quality music, unless you are a quality musician already..
All those examples don't prove that competition produce better music, but (at best) only that the musicians involved in it were capable of making that better music..
Isn't that up to the people involved? All people are motivated by different things; sometimes even against their will. Not music, but Phil Simms is a great example; he hated his coach - Bill Parcells - at the time because Parcells was mercilous in how he pushed Phil. Now? Phil readily admits that even though he didn't like it at all, Parcells made him a far better player than he ever would have been without him. Meanwhile, Lawrence Taylor (on the same team) was allowed to party, and hang with hookers and blow even the night before games, because that's how LT came ready to play. Trying to "chain him down" didn't work and stifled his playing instinct. So Parcells let him have his head.
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I was not taking this as another opportunity to say something bad about Mike or anything like that, I just pointed that, as Kev said, he has a track record of saying "this (insert Mike's new band name here) is going to be my main band/priority", and, after a while, it just doesn't work that way. It's not a bad thing that he doesn't just stick to one band, in fact, I admire the guy for releasing that many albums with so many different bands/people in a short period of time, I just think we can't take his word when he says something like that, because he has a history that says otherwise.
About TWD being inactive sonce 2015, I was mistaken about that, since I don't really like the band and haven't followed them too closely, but I do know their live album was recorded a long time ago, so it's not like they've been too active anyway, they just didn't release it before. I even read an interview with Kotzen where he said that even though he really likes TWD, he'll always focus more on his solo careeer, because that's what he likes to do more, and that's totally fine.
I do hope SOA becomes a priority for them, and not just another side project.
I mean this politely, but if you and Kev are going to criticize Mike and Derek for "fact selection" then you are going to ignore that AMOB and TWD were/are not "mike led bands" and therefore not his to decide how they roll and whether they roll, then you're kind of guilty of the same crime. As I noted above, Mike (and Marlene, at the time) saw Amob as a sort of "Disturbed", which was a serious, focused metal outfit. I don't at all think that they envisioned the sort of camp and parody that it became. It is (as I understand it) Orlando and Allen's band, NOT Portnoy's, so it can hardly be Mike's fault if it didn't turn out the way he would have needed it to for him to commit more meaningfully. As for TWD, well, when your singer/guitar player/main songwriter decides he has other priorities, well, again, not really Mike's fault. I think he really DID commit to TWD as if it was a main, long term project. I also think that his statement that he is back as "band leader" for Sons of Apollo is meaningful, in relation to your comments.
The things you point out are fair. Maybe they mean something, and maybe not. But it is also fair to point out that, as Kev said, there is indeed a pattern. If Mike wasn't in control of the situation, then maybe he shouldn't have spouted off about those other projects being full time and his "main thing," or whatever language he used. Maybe the factors you mentioned do make this project distinct from those others. Then again, maybe not. It's not unfair to observe a pattern and be skeptical until Mike and/or the passage of time proves otherwise. That's absolutely fair game as far as I'm concerned.
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For myself, I'm not interested in "public" competition between DT and MP. If wanting to one up DT is motivation for MP and DS, and as a result they produce a better album, that's great. They could do it without bringing DT into it in interviews, etc. If they can't, and they actually need some kind of public feud to bring out the best in themselves creatively, so be it, but I hope DT doesn't participate in it. Right now I'm just saying if - basing on what others are saying about competition. I don't know that MP actually wants to start something. That 3 part interview he recently did was great and I hope he keeps up with the positivity. Derek's interview - I don't know if it was really "us vs them" but I think it was purposely over the top (which I think he can be). The JR/JP cyborg comment was unnecessary. Claiming that MP invented prog metal - definitely over the top. Not even MP would say that.
If they go down the road of trying to compete or draw blabbermouth headlines, etc, I hope DT just continues to do what they do and that they disregard it.
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I was not taking this as another opportunity to say something bad about Mike or anything like that, I just pointed that, as Kev said, he has a track record of saying "this (insert Mike's new band name here) is going to be my main band/priority", and, after a while, it just doesn't work that way. It's not a bad thing that he doesn't just stick to one band, in fact, I admire the guy for releasing that many albums with so many different bands/people in a short period of time, I just think we can't take his word when he says something like that, because he has a history that says otherwise.
About TWD being inactive sonce 2015, I was mistaken about that, since I don't really like the band and haven't followed them too closely, but I do know their live album was recorded a long time ago, so it's not like they've been too active anyway, they just didn't release it before. I even read an interview with Kotzen where he said that even though he really likes TWD, he'll always focus more on his solo careeer, because that's what he likes to do more, and that's totally fine.
I do hope SOA becomes a priority for them, and not just another side project.
I mean this politely, but if you and Kev are going to criticize Mike and Derek for "fact selection" then you are going to ignore that AMOB and TWD were/are not "mike led bands" and therefore not his to decide how they roll and whether they roll, then you're kind of guilty of the same crime. As I noted above, Mike (and Marlene, at the time) saw Amob as a sort of "Disturbed", which was a serious, focused metal outfit. I don't at all think that they envisioned the sort of camp and parody that it became. It is (as I understand it) Orlando and Allen's band, NOT Portnoy's, so it can hardly be Mike's fault if it didn't turn out the way he would have needed it to for him to commit more meaningfully. As for TWD, well, when your singer/guitar player/main songwriter decides he has other priorities, well, again, not really Mike's fault. I think he really DID commit to TWD as if it was a main, long term project. I also think that his statement that he is back as "band leader" for Sons of Apollo is meaningful, in relation to your comments.
The things you point out are fair. Maybe they mean something, and maybe not. But it is also fair to point out that, as Kev said, there is indeed a pattern. If Mike wasn't in control of the situation, then maybe he shouldn't have spouted off about those other projects being full time and his "main thing," or whatever language he used. Maybe the factors you mentioned do make this project distinct from those others. Then again, maybe not. It's not unfair to observe a pattern and be skeptical until Mike and/or the passage of time proves otherwise. That's absolutely fair game as far as I'm concerned.
Patterns ARE fair game, no question. No argument. I think here, though, the pattern isn't "Mike bloviating about serious bands being the full time commitment then blowing it off and moving on to something else", I think the pattern is "Mike trusting others are as committed as he is to the cause". Look, I'm not being a Mike apologist here; I'm BAFFLED that he didn't see the Kotzen thing coming. I'm an idiot, and the first thing I said when they were talking about it being a "main thing" was "why are Mike and Bill putting their eggs in the Kotzen basket? I don't see him AT ALL committing to this long term.".
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I think here, though, the pattern isn't "Mike bloviating about serious bands being the full time commitment then blowing it off and moving on to something else"
Absent the "blowing off" part, which I don't think anybody was saying anyway, I think that's EXACTLY the pattern people are observing. And I also think it is entirely accurate. Now maybe there are plenty of distinguishing factors that should be taken into account, and maybe they include the ones you mentioned. Fair enough. But the pattern is still there regardless. And that isn't necessarily a "negative" either. It just is what it is.
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Well, Mike has always been a "speak first, think later" person, and I do think he meant what he said about these bands being his main thing. However, if we talk about AMOB, for example, when Rich Ward and Paul DiLeo quit, even before the album was released, Mike was like "Yeah, no big deal, the core has always been MO, RA and me, only the three of us", but, later, when he quit, he turned it to be something like "Orlando and Allen were the main guys there" (none of these were his exact words, I just remember things happening that way, and I could be wrong about it".
I do believe Mike and Derek when they say this is going to be their main thing now, but I just don't see this happening with people as busy as Billy Sheehan or even Mike himself.
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Oh, I believe him that he believes it as well. I think he believed what he said in the past as well. Again, I don't think there is any fault or blame here. Just observation that he has said things like this in the past when maybe he shouldn't have been so quick to say it, and that, again, what ultimately happened was different.
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Mike should go away from his comfort zone. I mean, his all projects are prog, metal or rock and always with his well known friends (Neal, Billy, Derek...). He should do some project with much more variety of musicians. What could be for example Dream Theater/Pendulum/Periphery/Coldplay style project? I would love to hear some electronic music from MP.
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Why "should" he? I don't see why "should" even comes into it. If he isn't interested in a particular type of music, I'm not sure why anyone would want to hear him (or anyone else) do it. He "should" do what he likes, which is presumably what he is doing.
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Why "should" he? I don't see why "should" even comes into it. If he isn't interested in a particular type of music, I'm not sure why anyone would want to hear him (or anyone else) do it. He "should" do what he likes, which is presumably what he is doing.
Exactly.... He should do what he wants to do and not care too much about what the fans want. If playing with about the same group of peoples brings him happiness then I am all for it. And if I then happen to like the music they put out that is a bonus.
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And even if Mike did, you know half of his fans would whine and moan about it. Look at Steven Wilson "going out of his comfort zone", and see what's happening there. Just because someone is doing mostly the same thing with a lot of their albums and projects doesn't mean they *should* do something else. No one is going to force anyone to listen to anything by a single artist. Artists will, and should do what THEY want, fans be damned. Mike has always had a fondness for his fans, through good and bad, but he strikes me as the kind of guy who will still do things his way, the way he wants, be it between him and his fans, or him and his bands.
-Marc.
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I got to think there's only a small amount of fans that want to see MP doing electronic music
But I do think that working outside your comfort zone does help you grow, however, I don't see any reason MP "should" do that. He "should" do what he wants and clearly that is a prog metal band with people he's worked with before.
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Artists will, and should do what THEY want, fans be damned.
Well, no, that's not what I was saying at all, and that's WAY too extreme. Most successful artists understand that they are where they are because of the fans, so they aren't going to turn completely indifferent to the fans that put them where they are. But that isn't what I was talking about. What I was addressing is the audacity of some fans to demand that an artist go far outside the norm and do something that is not remotely like anything the artist has ever done, simply to indulge the whim of said fans who can't be bothered to appreciate the artist's work for what it is.
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Artists will, and should do what THEY want, fans be damned.
Well, no, that's not what I was saying at all, and that's WAY too extreme. Most successful artists understand that they are where they are because of the fans, so they aren't going to turn completely indifferent to the fans that put them where they are. But that isn't what I was talking about. What I was addressing is the audacity of some fans to demand that an artist go far outside the norm and do something that is not remotely like anything the artist has ever done, simply to indulge the whim of said fans who can't be bothered to appreciate the artist's work for what it is.
Pardon my misunderstanding then, but I still do agree with your points here at any rate. Some fans can feel so entitled some times, and can be easily offended when a celebrity does just ONE thing wrong or different than what fans expect. We can all like and appreciate different things that our favorite artists and celebrities do, but demanding anything from them seems quite foolish, especially for an artist like Mike, who has actually done a lot for his fans over the years. I never would have dreamed of owning "drum videos" of behind-the-scenes footage from studio sessions, but here I am, with over a dozen MP videos of his drumming, because he knows his fans will like it, so he puts it out there for his fans to enjoy.
As for MP doing electronic stuff, I don't really see it happening. He is firmly rooted in rock and roll, from his earliest influences to his current social circles. The most out-of-his-comfort-zone I've seen him really get is probably doing stuff with Neal Morse, like some of the covers they do, which, while still fundamentally all rock and roll, are pretty unusual choices for a man who champions progressive rock and metal. I think if he were to do anything electronic, it would probably be purely in a production sense, and not really performing, though I don't really see him as "just a producer" when he seems to enjoy playing so much (with exception of his work with Next To None). Maybe after he retires from drumming, he may produce albums, which would be neat.
-Marc.
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And I don't disagree with any of that, Marc.
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My point wasn't that certain situation (like competition) cannot end up being (after hundred of things that actually make the music happen) the initial point to a great album or band.. What I'm trying to say is that these kind of feelings (like competitiveness) doesn't necessarily bring inspiration to the musician, and I think is safe to say that have either nothing to do with the compositional process that really ends up making the music.. I'm neither saying that feelings cannot inspire in some way, because they often do.. What instead I think is that to be motivated because you must "win" a band battle won't be followed by quality music, unless you are a quality musician already..
All those examples don't prove that competition produce better music, but (at best) only that the musicians involved in it were capable of making that better music..
Isn't that up to the people involved? All people are motivated by different things; sometimes even against their will. Not music, but Phil Simms is a great example; he hated his coach - Bill Parcells - at the time because Parcells was mercilous in how he pushed Phil. Now? Phil readily admits that even though he didn't like it at all, Parcells made him a far better player than he ever would have been without him. Meanwhile, Lawrence Taylor (on the same team) was allowed to party, and hang with hookers and blow even the night before games, because that's how LT came ready to play. Trying to "chain him down" didn't work and stifled his playing instinct. So Parcells let him have his head.
Again, your examples are no different than the others.. They just describe situations were there was some kind of competition going on, and the final result was better than before.. What you're missing is that that final result is not only possible due to that initial motivation.. First, as you're saying, motivation can come from many different places, but second and third and etc you should have all the elements that you need to do what you're trying to do.. In the music field that would be, besides the motivation, the talent, the patience, the time, the equipment, etc, to actually make the music happen.. You won't need all of them, but at least some of these and many others things (whether physical or psychical) will probably guide you to make good music.. Not competition just for the sake of it.. If a person manages to create something beautiful after getting angry with someone, the magic was all along within that person, and not in that unnamed negative feeling..
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Well that seems a bit silly. Obviously one factor alone doesn't make anything good.
Just like a strong desire to make great music won't result in anything good.
I think the assumption is that under the right circumstances, along with the proper talent and everything else, competition CAN be a very good thing.
No one is actually arguing that all you need is competition and nothing else to automatically create brilliant music.
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Well that seems a bit silly. Obviously one factor alone doesn't make anything good.
Just like a strong desire to make great music won't result in anything good.
I think the assumption is that under the right circumstances, along with the proper talent and everything else, competition CAN be a very good thing.
No one is actually arguing that all you need is competition and nothing else to automatically create brilliant music.
As silly as it seems, but several have been giving examples that indicate they think that way.. Or, at least, that they think that competition is the main factor to bring something fresh and better to the table..
Also, the quotes I've made don't implicate that it CAN be a good thing, but that IT IS (maybe always, even regardless the particular cases and the little things that may hamper the production of that music) something good and preferable..
Not saying everyone thinks that way either, just what I think of what I've been reading here.. I guess ambiguity says hi, and that includes me too apparently..
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My point wasn't that certain situation (like competition) cannot end up being (after hundred of things that actually make the music happen) the initial point to a great album or band.. What I'm trying to say is that these kind of feelings (like competitiveness) doesn't necessarily bring inspiration to the musician, and I think is safe to say that have either nothing to do with the compositional process that really ends up making the music.. I'm neither saying that feelings cannot inspire in some way, because they often do.. What instead I think is that to be motivated because you must "win" a band battle won't be followed by quality music, unless you are a quality musician already..
All those examples don't prove that competition produce better music, but (at best) only that the musicians involved in it were capable of making that better music..
Isn't that up to the people involved? All people are motivated by different things; sometimes even against their will. Not music, but Phil Simms is a great example; he hated his coach - Bill Parcells - at the time because Parcells was mercilous in how he pushed Phil. Now? Phil readily admits that even though he didn't like it at all, Parcells made him a far better player than he ever would have been without him. Meanwhile, Lawrence Taylor (on the same team) was allowed to party, and hang with hookers and blow even the night before games, because that's how LT came ready to play. Trying to "chain him down" didn't work and stifled his playing instinct. So Parcells let him have his head.
Again, your examples are no different than the others.. They just describe situations were there was some kind of competition going on, and the final result was better than before.. What you're missing is that that final result is not only possible due to that initial motivation.. First, as you're saying, motivation can come from many different places, but second and third and etc you should have all the elements that you need to do what you're trying to do.. In the music field that would be, besides the motivation, the talent, the patience, the time, the equipment, etc, to actually make the music happen.. You won't need all of them, but at least some of these and many others things (whether physical or psychical) will probably guide you to make good music.. Not competition just for the sake of it.. If a person manages to create something beautiful after getting angry with someone, the magic was all along within that person, and not in that unnamed negative feeling..
I agreed with everything you said up to the last sentence. There are many examples of that "negative" (your word; it's subjective) feeling being the catalyst for great work that the artist never quite lives up to again. One could argue that Roger Waters owes his whole legendary status to "negative feelings" that permeate his work.
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For myself, I'm not interested in "public" competition between DT and MP. If wanting to one up DT is motivation for MP and DS, and as a result they produce a better album, that's great. They could do it without bringing DT into it in interviews, etc. If they can't, and they actually need some kind of public feud to bring out the best in themselves creatively, so be it, but I hope DT doesn't participate in it. Right now I'm just saying if - basing on what others are saying about competition. I don't know that MP actually wants to start something. That 3 part interview he recently did was great and I hope he keeps up with the positivity. Derek's interview - I don't know if it was really "us vs them" but I think it was purposely over the top (which I think he can be). The JR/JP cyborg comment was unnecessary. Claiming that MP invented prog metal - definitely over the top. Not even MP would say that.
If they go down the road of trying to compete or draw blabbermouth headlines, etc, I hope DT just continues to do what they do and that they disregard it.
I don't think DT thinks of it as a competition. They are an established band for almost 30 years, they have nothing to prove. Sons of Apollo are a group of individuals. With their age, there is no way they will ever reach DT's longevity. Two of the member's claim to fame is that they USED to be in the successful band they are competing with. To add to that DT does not want them anymore, so maybe DS and MP share a bond and feel slighted.
Anyhow, should make for some nice forum discussions. :)
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There are many examples of that "negative" (your word; it's subjective) feeling being the catalyst for great work that the artist never quite lives up to again. One could argue that Roger Waters owes his whole legendary status to "negative feelings" that permeate his work.
Exactly that's the part which I disagree with.. I'd never think he owes it to a feeling, whether be negative or positive.. he owes it to his talent first and foremost... Only then, yeah, circumstances and reactions to them can be helpful; but if you don't have the ears and hands to translate it to music, those circumstances and reactions are useless to the cause.. As obvious as it may sound, to not give up in making art you must be an artist first, and being capable of manage precisely those kind of situations.. Is not that what art is about in the end?.. Translate internal senses and thoughts (well, knowledge too) into a piece of work?..
So, I disagree that competition (or whatever else that can be the "catalyst for great work") is the main factor to be a better musician or artist.. But there's another thing though that I find weird about what you're all saying, and it took me this long to realize what's that.. Now I see it.. Is the redundancy of your argument.. Art is [among other not mutually exclusive definitions] a way to express feelings and emotions, so is obvious that to be an artist, first you'd need to have those two.. But that's like saying that you'd need arms and fingers or to be alive in order to make music..
I don't think DT thinks of it as a competition. They are an established band for almost 30 years, they have nothing to prove. Sons of Apollo are a group of individuals. With their age, there is no way they will ever reach DT's longevity. Two of the member's claim to fame is that they USED to be in the successful band they are competing with. To add to that DT does not want them anymore, so maybe DS and MP share a bond and feel slighted.
Anyhow, should make for some nice forum discussions. :)
Absolutely..
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There are many examples of that "negative" (your word; it's subjective) feeling being the catalyst for great work that the artist never quite lives up to again. One could argue that Roger Waters owes his whole legendary status to "negative feelings" that permeate his work.
Exactly that's the part which I disagree with.. I'd never think he owes it to a feeling, whether be negative or positive.. he owes it to his talent first and foremost... Only then, yeah, circumstances and reactions to them can be helpful; but if you don't have the ears and hands to translate it to music, those circumstances and reactions are useless to the cause.. As obvious as it may sound, to not give up in making art you must be an artist first, and being capable of manage precisely those kind of situations.. Is not that what art is about in the end?.. Translate internal senses and thoughts (well, knowledge too) into a piece of work?..
So why does Taylor Swift or better yet Christina Aguilera and Demi Lovato (both EXCELLENT singers) get dismissed as "vapid pop tarts" and Leonard Cohen or better yet Patti Smith get lauded as legends?
Look, we can argue this all day and neither one of us is totally right (and it's not provable even if we are). I believe that talent isn't enough. I think you need that edge, and for all people it's different. Waters gets his inspiration writing about dark subjects that touch him, often negatively (you'll never convince me that Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall, or The Final Cut were borne of JUST talent and have nothing to owe to his emotional state at the time of writing). It's not a coincidence that even the band members will say that the emotional complexity around the band and the competitive, jealous nature of the parties was a big part of why Rumours is arguably the best Fleetwood Mac album ever, and arguably one of the best albums by any band ever.
So, I disagree that competition (or whatever else that can be the "catalyst for great work") is the main factor to be a better musician or artist.. But there's another thing though that I find weird about what you're all saying, and it took me this long to realize what's that.. Now I see it.. Is the redundancy of your argument.. Art is [among other not mutually exclusive definitions] a way to express feelings and emotions, so is obvious that to be an artist, first you'd need to have those two.. But that's like saying that you'd need arms and fingers or to be alive in order to make music..
I don't follow that. And by the way, you DON'T need arms and fingers to make music (Jason Becker). You don't need emotion, either; I doubt the guy writing jingles for commercials, or music under the voiceovers on reality TV are driven by anything purely emotional. I'm only saying that for SOME PEOPLE, the difference between "good" music and "great" music is sometimes those emotions that we from the outside view as "bad" or "harmful", like "competitiveness".
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So why does Taylor Swift or better yet Christina Aguilera and Demi Lovato (both EXCELLENT singers) get dismissed as "vapid pop tarts" and Leonard Cohen or better yet Patti Smith get lauded as legends?
Look, we can argue this all day and neither one of us is totally right (and it's not provable even if we are). I believe that talent isn't enough. I think you need that edge, and for all people it's different. Waters gets his inspiration writing about dark subjects that touch him, often negatively (you'll never convince me that Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall, or The Final Cut were borne of JUST talent and have nothing to owe to his emotional state at the time of writing). It's not a coincidence that even the band members will say that the emotional complexity around the band and the competitive, jealous nature of the parties was a big part of why Rumours is arguably the best Fleetwood Mac album ever, and arguably one of the best albums by any band ever.
But I believe too that talent isn't enough.. Otherwise I wouldn't be saying that I think is the most important factor; I would simply say is the only one, but that's obviously not how it is.. As you say, no one can be totally right about this, because is purely subjective.. But just to clarify my posture, I'm not saying emotion is not important, but is far from being a "big part" of the whole process.. All those PF's albums weren't of course made of just talent, but they weren't certainly made of just inspiration or emotion, and they're not even the main elements, because then again, inspiration and emotion we all have them, but talent to make music only some.. I'm sure that band sayings were not to be taken literally, they were just being honest and telling their audience what was the real motivation behind that album..
I don't follow that. And by the way, you DON'T need arms and fingers to make music (Jason Becker). You don't need emotion, either; I doubt the guy writing jingles for commercials, or music under the voiceovers on reality TV are driven by anything purely emotional. I'm only saying that for SOME PEOPLE, the difference between "good" music and "great" music is sometimes those emotions that we from the outside view as "bad" or "harmful", like "competitiveness".
Ok, you got me there with Becker.. :lol But about the need for emotion, I wasn't talking about commercials, but real music.. About art, not TV ads.. And about your last sentence, I absolutely agree with it.. What I was saying in that last paragraph is that, by definition, all kind of art has emotions involved in it, at different degrees obviously.. Sometimes the overload of expressed feelings into a work can make it worst (or less good than it is) and sometimes can make it better, a thing that depends too on the judge of every person..
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What a fascinatingly long conversation. Apparently there are multiple factors necessary to make great music and be a hit.
Who knew?
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Ok, you got me there with Becker.. :lol But about the need for emotion, I wasn't talking about commercials, but real music.. About art, not TV ads.. And about your last sentence, I absolutely agree with it.. What I was saying in that last paragraph is that, by definition, all kind of art has emotions involved in it, at different degrees obviously.. Sometimes the overload of expressed feelings into a work can make it worst (or less good than it is) and sometimes can make it better, a thing that depends too on the judge of every person..
Whoa, who says that commercial jingles are not "art"? Why can't they be art? Does art "REQUIRE" emotion? That kind of supports my position, that sometimes circumstances make for more poignant emotions.
For the record, I don't at all believe that "art" is judged "good" or "bad" by "every person". In my opinion, only the artist can determine if a work is "good" or "bad" (and that by how close he/she came to their vision). All anyone else can do is say "I like it" or "I do not like it".
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Um, we're getting way off track here. Mike Portnoy/Sons of Appollo discussion, please.
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I wonder when they're going to release the 1st single. That's when we can really start commenting about the direction and sound of the band. Hope it's released sometime this month.
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I wonder when they're going to release the 1st single. That's when we can really start commenting about the direction and sound of the band. Hope it's released sometime this month.
I saw on Facebook that Portnoy was saying something would be out in late October. If he meant the full album, we should start hearing singles soon.
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The more I listen to the samples, the more I like them. I think there's potential here for a masterpiece. Prog metal combined with classic hard rock moxie, on paper that's just what I'm most into these days. I'm pretty sure I'll prefer it to The Astonishing.
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Yeah, listened to the samples a couple of times and I am definitely digging it.
Portnoy's interview with Trunk sounds good to me, three epics and a bunch of smaller tracks, with the musical direction somewhere inbetween DT-esque prog metal and Van Halen-esque classic rock. I also searched up some Jeff Scott Soto material and I think he has a good voice for the genre. Not very high and belty (unlike a lot of singers in the genre) and a good sense of "groove" from what I've heard. And given some of the other members can sing too, I hope they will use that now and then (choruses, harmonies).
I also think this should be a pretty fun band to watch live.
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Yeah, listened to the samples a couple of times and I am definitely digging it.
Portnoy's interview with Trunk sounds good to me, three epics and a bunch of smaller tracks, with the musical direction somewhere inbetween DT-esque prog metal and Van Halen-esque classic rock. I also searched up some Jeff Scott Soto material and I think he has a good voice for the genre. Not very high and belty (unlike a lot of singers in the genre) and a good sense of "groove" from what I've heard. And given some of the other members can sing too, I hope they will use that now and then (choruses, harmonies).
I also think this should be a pretty fun band to watch live.
I finally got a chance to listen to their "debut" live performance and was actually kind of surprised that Soto doesn't have a higher range. He has a great voice but I wasn't too impressed with his performance on Burn. In fact, the whole band was kind of sloppy which I feel bad for saying because it was obviously thrown together for a tribute but hey, it is what it is. Bumblefoot has a great voice to so I'm sure he will contribute some to the vocals...at least, I would hope he does.
I'm curious if Soto wrote all the lyrics or if it was a shared responsibility.
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One piece of criticism about the samples would be the sound. It sounds very compressed, which is a sound MP seems to go for a lot.
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Even Virgil can't resist to poke fun at the name. :lol
(https://i.imgur.com/Qzndlzl.jpg)
Also, Derek changed his FB "describe who you are" to "Son of Apollo." He really seems to be taking this thing seriously.
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Yeah, listened to the samples a couple of times and I am definitely digging it.
Portnoy's interview with Trunk sounds good to me, three epics and a bunch of smaller tracks, with the musical direction somewhere inbetween DT-esque prog metal and Van Halen-esque classic rock. I also searched up some Jeff Scott Soto material and I think he has a good voice for the genre. Not very high and belty (unlike a lot of singers in the genre) and a good sense of "groove" from what I've heard. And given some of the other members can sing too, I hope they will use that now and then (choruses, harmonies).
I also think this should be a pretty fun band to watch live.
I finally got a chance to listen to their "debut" live performance and was actually kind of surprised that Soto doesn't have a higher range. He has a great voice but I wasn't too impressed with his performance on Burn. In fact, the whole band was kind of sloppy which I feel bad for saying because it was obviously thrown together for a tribute but hey, it is what it is. Bumblefoot has a great voice to so I'm sure he will contribute some to the vocals...at least, I would hope he does.
I'm curious if Soto wrote all the lyrics or if it was a shared responsibility.
From an interview linked somewhere here, the majority of music was composed by Portnoy/Sherinian/Ron, with Sheehan less involved. Lyrics and melodies by Sherinian/Portnoy/Soto.
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Even Virgil can't resist to poke fun at the name. :lol
(https://i.imgur.com/Qzndlzl.jpg)
Also, Derek changed his FB "describe who you are" to "Son of Apollo." He really seems to be taking this thing seriously.
The prog version of Chickenfoot.
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I don't think DT thinks of it as a competition. They are an established band for almost 30 years, they have nothing to prove. Sons of Apollo are a group of individuals. With their age, there is no way they will ever reach DT's longevity. Two of the member's claim to fame is that they USED to be in the successful band they are competing with. To add to that DT does not want them anymore, so maybe DS and MP share a bond and feel slighted.
Excellent post. :tup :tup
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I'm glad Sherinian is taking it seriously. He is the MVP of the project so far for me.
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I don't think DT thinks of it as a competition. They are an established band for almost 30 years, they have nothing to prove. Sons of Apollo are a group of individuals. With their age, there is no way they will ever reach DT's longevity. Two of the member's claim to fame is that they USED to be in the successful band they are competing with. To add to that DT does not want them anymore, so maybe DS and MP share a bond and feel slighted.
(https://i.imgur.com/LqpI7lk.jpg)
I definitely get the vibe that Derek feels slighted, and they want to hit it big with SOA. Fingers crossed.
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Whoa, who says that commercial jingles are not "art"? Why can't they be art? Does art "REQUIRE" emotion? That kind of supports my position, that sometimes circumstances make for more poignant emotions.
For the record, I don't at all believe that "art" is judged "good" or "bad" by "every person". In my opinion, only the artist can determine if a work is "good" or "bad" (and that by how close he/she came to their vision). All anyone else can do is say "I like it" or "I do not like it".
Ok, then we think very different.. I'm glad that at least I could explain my posture and glad too that there's some that have read the whole thing only to after complain about it..
Um, we're getting way off track here. Mike Portnoy/Sons of Appollo discussion, please.
Actually, it didn't seem by the last few posts, but we were initially discussing about a statement someone made of how the MP vs DT thing would inspire them to be better.. And yes, the discussion expanded to more general concepts, but the motive behind them was always these bands.. I don't care for any of the other bands named in the examples neither was the point to care about them..
Not that there's too much to talk about a band that has release nothing yet, but ok, let's go back to that.. ;)
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Even Virgil can't resist to poke fun at the name. :lol
(https://i.imgur.com/Qzndlzl.jpg)
Also, Derek changed his FB "describe who you are" to "Son of Apollo." He really seems to be taking this thing seriously.
It would very cool if IceFish open to SoA :tup
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Oh man, a show of IceFish and Sons of Apollo?
YES PLEASE!
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Oh man, a show of IceFish and Sons of Apollo?
YES PLEASE!
Why not run with it and have the tour called The Food Court Tour.
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Bad Salad (who I....think do a ton of DT covers) can open!
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Oh man, a show of IceFish and Sons of Apollo?
YES PLEASE!
That would be EPIC
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10min instruMENTAL confirmed :metal
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10min instruMENTAL confirmed :metal
Now you got my attention...
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10min instruMENTAL confirmed :metal
Not thrilled by that, there's danger of serious wankery.
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10min instruMENTAL confirmed :metal
Not thrilled by that, there's danger of serious wankery.
I'd love that .. coming from both SOA & DT since there hasn't been serious wankery on The Astonishing.
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10min instruMENTAL confirmed :metal
Where are you getting these updates from?
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Mike's comments on FB
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I think I may have outgrown wankery for the point of wankery.
If it's cleverly composed, then I'm interested. But technical for the sake of it? Nah. Heard it all.
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I think I may have outgrown wankery for the point of wankery.
If it's cleverly composed, then I'm interested. But technical for the sake of it? Nah. Heard it all.
Yeah. Major understatement as far as I'm concerned.
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Is Bumblefoot known for technical wankery, though? I'm not as musically invested in his works as others here, so it'd be interesting to see what fans of his might say about this. I'm mostly interested in hearing how MP plays up that technical music wankery with this set of musicians. He's not really had an outlet for that kind of prog metal since DT, and the closest he's come has been some heavier moments with Neal Morse, but that's not really Neal's style over-all. Flying Colors was modern rock and pop with a foot in the prog puddle, while Transatlantic was the whole body in the symphonic prog pool, but MP hasn't really dipped his sticks into a full on prog metal project lately, so hearing about a 10-minute instrumental is amazing for me.
Granted, I've not listened to a lot of progressive metal, or wankery music for that matter, in recent years, since my tastes in music have softened a bit from the hard stuff (my favorite and most listened bands lately have been Big Big Train, The Tangent, Haken, Anathema, Neal Morse, and the occasional non-prog rock band like Zeppelin and Queen). I think I was just too burned out on that kind of music after awhile, and to be honest, it's probably partly DT's fault. In the year-plus since The Astonishing has come out, I could probably count the number of times I've listened to DT (any era of it) on my fingers and toes, but I feel like with SOA, I might be ready to hear this kind of music again.
-Marc.
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Wanky prog metal has never really been my thing, outside of DT and by extension LTE (which was basically instrumental DT with Tony Levin on bass instead). Haken can wank, but they really do keep it to a minimum, and the other metal artists I listen to who sometimes get the prog tag (Devin Townsend, Opeth) are not wanky at all. I will check this out, but my expectations are not high.
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Well, I had fears for Stream of Consciousness and it turned out just fine, so I hope too it's gonna be that kind of instrumental, riff driven and not, well, "wank" driven.
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I'm no expert on Bumblefoot but have had a few listens to his stuff on YouTube. His instructional videos are excellent - he's got a relaxing deep voice that could do meditation tapes 😀.
He can certainly shred but the songs of his I played were songs and not widdle fests.
The fretless guitar appears to be his thing. I think he has a quirky side to him. Will be interesting to see how this goes.
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From the SOA Facebook page:
You've heard the teaser (https://youtu.be/kPN2DttzlZQ), tomorrow you'll get your first real taste...Stay Tuned! @SonsOfApollo1 #PsychoticSymphony
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Cool I'm interested in hearing this.
I like Derek's solo albums. Specifically Mythology and Oceana. Forgot about Blood of The Snake.
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A track, Signs of the Time, is now available on Spotify.
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Of course...when I'm at work with no headphones ;)
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https://open.spotify.com/track/3McauVJBP7gRvYj6rGL0WH :)
Had a listen today. Everyone sounds good though the chorus and verses didn't do too much on a first listen. I love the middle part though, shades of the more "fusiony" parts of Derek era DT there and Bumblefoots guitar solo is mindboggling. I keep forgetting what an absolute monster he is.
I didn't really have any expectations of this going in but this is enough to make me interested in hearing more.
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Holy f****k, this song is awesome!!!!!
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Well, since I'm following the thread anyway, may as well post here:
LYRICS (from what I could gather):
[Verse 1:]
Beneath this poison rage
We dance upon the gravest night
This scarred humanity
We crave insanity this night (hey, yeah)
[Pre-Chorus 1:]
Through this curtain call
We'll colide & fall
We're all victimised
& dehumanised
[Chorus:]
But we hold on
More than a miracle
Will die for the praying
Hold on
The fight of our lives
Are signs of the time
[Verse 2:]
Bleeding we're gagged & bound ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
This new world terminates my soul (my soul)
Shooken(?) the loaded gun
Looking inside your vertigo (hey, yeah)
[Pre-Chorus 2:]
Sipping cyanide
Bodies damnified
Too much time to hate
Re-evaluate
[Chorus]
[Chorus-B:]
If we hold on
Something has got to give
Now hear what I'm saying
Hold on
The fight of our lives
Are signs of the time
[3 Minute Instrumental]
[Chorus A/B]
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Youtube link for new song;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLVWkqnN3Ck
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I found the instrumental slightly overwhelming, but the rest was very interesting. I'm digging the melodies and the down-tuned riffs. :metal
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Officially released by the InsideOut YouTube channel
Signs of the Time by Sons of Apollo
https://youtu.be/TLVWkqnN3Ck
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Tracklist revealed!:
1. God of the Sun
2. Coming Home
3. Signs of the Time
4. Labyrinth
5. Alive
6. Lost in Oblivion
7. Figaro's Whore [sic]
8. Divine Addiction
9. Opus Maximus
Release Date: October 20th :metal
https://itunes.apple.com/au/album/psychotic-symphony/id1267878801?app=itunes&ign-mpt=uo%3D4
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Having known nothing about Bumblefoot before this song, I gotta say, I'm impressed with that guitar playing in there.
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Thanks for the link, the Spotify link wasn't working for some reason.
Listening to this at work So my attention isn't fully on the song but here are my thoughts:
Awesome riff, awesome tone. I'm really not a fan of the vocals, they sound strained, as if he is trying really hard to sing, or maybe sing in a fashion that suits the song. DS sounds exactly like DS from FII, like his tone or sound hasn't evolved in any way, I'm not saying it's a bad thing and most artists have heir signature sound. It's funny because my only exposure to Derrick is FII so all of sudden it sounded like he was dropp into the ToT recording sessions.
My final thing to say is Ron sounds a lot like JP, that solo sounds like it could be lifted from a recent DT album.
Again nothing negative (except the vocals which really don't do it for me), I think this is MP project appeals to me more than anything else he has done aside from DT but
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Oh my God, Opus Maximus! :lol
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Well to me that is the best song I've heard from any of MP's new projects since he left DT. Happy Happy :metal
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Pretty good song, and I get serious FII vibes in the instrumental section.
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That song was pretty cool, nothing groundbreaking, but enjoyable overall.
Having known nothing about Bumblefoot before this song, I gotta say, I'm impressed with that guitar playing in there.
I'm totally with you on that one wolf, he sounded really good on this track.
Awesome riff, awesome tone. I'm really not a fan of the vocals, they sound strained, as if he is trying really hard to sing, or maybe sing in a fashion that suits the song. DS sounds exactly like DS from FII, like his tone or sound hasn't evolved in any way, I'm not saying it's a bad thing and most artists have heir signature sound. It's funny because my only exposure to Derrick is FII so all of sudden it sounded like he was dropp into the ToT recording sessions.
My final thing to say is Ron sounds a lot like JP, that solo sounds like it could be lifted from a recent DT album.
I totally agree he sounded a lot like JP on that solo, like a lot. Obviously that's not a bad thing, just an observation. As for DS and that FII sound, I totally agree with you that he sounds exactly like he did on FII and, for me, that's great I loved those sounds.
The vocals were kinda just there for me. Clearly well sung, I liked the verses okay, but the chorus didn't do much for me. Billy's bass tone is not my cup of tea and that holds true on this track.
Lastly, the production sounds decent, but a bit of a let down. The mix sounds totally tapped out in a couple places. MP's drums are refreshingly present and clear though.
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This song's freaking awesome. Excellent sound and production.
DAT SOLO. DAT MID SECTION. THAT HOOK.
Me likes it! :metal
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i dig the logo, huge Queen influence of course.
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Really beautiful album cover👍👍👍
Very good song, the instrumental section is perfect!
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Youtube link for new song;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLVWkqnN3Ck
"Roots, Bloody Rooots..."
Not impressed at all upon my first listen. Jeff's voice still is doing nothing for me. Derek solo was cool, definitely reminds me of his solo in Burning My Soul. Didn't care for Bumblefoot's solo. It's started ok then turned into wanky bullshit. Mike's drumming was nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing surprised me, but I do feel his drums were a bit high in the mix, especially the snare which was so loud to the point it was distracting.
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Not impressed at all upon my first listen. Jeff's voice still is doing nothing for me. Derek solo was cool, definitely reminds me of his solo in Burning My Soul. Didn't care for Bumblefoot's solo. It's started ok then turned into wanky bullshit. Mike's drumming was nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing surprised me, but I do feel his drums were a bit high in the mix, especially the snare which was so loud to the point it was distracting.
I just listened again and I tend to agree about the guitar solo. My initial thought was that it was cool but upon second listen, it kinda loses focus and steam at a point where it probably should have just ended.
I personally think most MP projects mix the drums a little too high, so this one seems to be no exception. His snare sounds a little different here to my ears. I'm guessing he's using his sig as he always does, but for some reason in this mix it's a little less pleasing to my ears.
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This song's freaking awesome. Excellent sound and production.
DAT SOLO. DAT MID SECTION. THAT HOOK.
Me likes it! :metal
This :metal
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Love MP's snare sound (a bit too high) but he's always had a great snare sound.
So far so good. I've missed Derek's FII keyboard sound and I love that it made a comeback.
Still not sold on Jeff's vocals. For me, when I first discovered DT, the drums and the vocals is what did it for me (JLB and MP). Weird listening to Jeff.
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Solid song though I'm not sold of the vocals either. This should have been MP's collaboration with Russell Allen.
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The sound is pretty good overall but the song is prog-by-numbers with a good dash of obvious FII derivation, and I don't like the lyrics at all, thematically they are bad and grammatically/narratively they don't make a lot of sense in some places.
Great to hear Mike and Derek as always, and I always liked JSS, my husband got me hooked on Ron Thal's stuff and he sounds exactly as tasteful as I would have expected on this project.
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Eh, song isn't very interesting minus some cool solos. I'll probably still check out the album, there's definitely potential for this band, but the vocals aren't winning me over. I'll need to listen more to get into them and there's like no hook in this song, nothing catchy, nothing that will make me want to come back to it essentially.
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From the label webpage:
Mike comments: "Signs Of The Time was the very first thing myself, Derek & Bumblefoot wrote when we got together to begin writing for Sons Of Apollo in March of this year.
It starts with this heavy, brutal Bumbleriff (initally coined "Korntera"), then goes into a cool verse with a 2-Pt vocal melody that I wrote sung by Jeff and myself...which eventually opens up to a HUGE vocal hook in the chorus that Jeff wrote (sung in 3-Pt harmony by Jeff, myself and Bumblefoot)
The middle section riffs are a few things that Derek brought in and show why he is the most BADASS keyboard player in the biz (playing the keys like a guitar player on fire!) and then we have the long extended breakdown and guitar solo which shows why Bumblefoot is one of today's greatest GUITAR HEROES! This album is going to get him the recognition he truly deserves and this particular guitar solo is one of the tastiest, most insane solos I've EVER heard...
So all in all, this song has a little bit of everything that makes Sons Of Apollo so special...great heavy riffs, amazing solos with individual instrumental virtuosity and a big, catchy chorus with more hooks than a tackle box!!
I figured this would be a great "first taste" to introduce the world to this amazing new supergroup...and there's a whole lot more of different musical styles and twist & turns still to come all throughout the album..."
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Well I have to say that after Your comments I can't wait to hear that track. I'm coming home now and turn it on :metal
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Wow, despite the players, this does not sound like what I was expecting. I like this. Can't really comment TOO specifically after only a couple of listens this morning, but a few thoughts:
The riffage is what is probably the most different and makes this song stand out the most. It is an interesting sound to go with the melodic vocals by JSS and the more "standard" prog metal instrumentation that Mike, Billy, and Derek provide to go along with it.
JSS's singing is really good. He is hit and miss for me (and did I mention that he can't sing Meanstreak?). But I like what he brings to this project, at least from what I am hearing so far. I was worried that they would bring it someone who either has range but sounds like he lacks power, like the singer from Haken, or someone who sings too harshly. Soto seems like a really good fit. And he is singing in his range and sounding comfortable, which I think is huge for him to be successful.
I initially didn't get the "Derek sounds like he does on FII" vibe at all...up until his solo. Yeah, same lead sound. But that is part of him. That is one of his signature sounds, and I expected it. But the background work he does through the rest of the song doesn't give me that FII vibe at all. The sounds he uses for those backing chords is quite tasteful and really helps set off the guitars and vocals.
Overall, good song. Looking forward to hearing more.
i dig the logo, huge Queen influence of course.
I was thinking House of Lords, myself. I know Derek is familiar, having done an album with them, so their logo may have intentionally or subconsciously been an inspiration.
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Sounds a lot like Symphony X. That's not a bad thing just nothing new. The middle part sounds very FII, definitely DS's influence.
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:o :o :o :o OMFG that track is awesome! I didn't expect that kind of riffage, the instrumental section is just mindblowing, especially Derek's.... I love it because it totally is what I wanted to hear but not believing that I will hear ;) and it even sounds very DTish, especially in second part of verse which sounds like FII ;) great job Sons Of Apollo, my awaiting for October is even more unpatient now :tup
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01. God of The Sun (11:11)
02. Coming Home (04:23)
03. Signs of The Time (06:40)
04. Labyrinth (09:11)
05. Alive (05:10)
06. Lost In Oblivion (04:38)
07. Figaro's Whore (01:00)
08. Divine Addiction (04:48)
09. Opus Maximus (10:37)
https://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Sons_Of_Apollo_-_Psychotic_Symphony_-Standard_CD_Jewelcase-/16368
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Not sure if anyone can tell for sure, but is the main riff done on his fretless? It has this slightly almost-off-key quality to it (in a good way), and I'm wondering if that's why.
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01. God of The Sun (11:11)
02. Coming Home (04:23)
03. Signs of The Time (06:40)
04. Labyrinth (09:11)
05. Alive (05:10)
06. Lost In Oblivion (04:38)
07. Figaro's Whore (01:00)
08. Divine Addiction (04:48)
09. Opus Maximus (10:37)
https://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Sons_Of_Apollo_-_Psychotic_Symphony_-Standard_CD_Jewelcase-/16368
Already posted, minus the durations :azn:
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I hate to draw ANY conclusions from track lengths. But I like that the songs are long enough to allow them to develop, but the track times aren't so overly long that it looks like they might meander all over the place. Signs of the Time is a good example of having a song long enough to have some interesting parts and enough development to take you on a bit of a journey without overstaying its welcome.
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Not sure if anyone can tell for sure, but is the main riff done on his fretless? It has this slightly almost-off-key quality to it (in a good way), and I'm wondering if that's why.
I don't know what the answer is but I wondered that myself. There's just a hint of being off-key. Creates a nice tension.
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Not sure if anyone can tell for sure, but is the main riff done on his fretless? It has this slightly almost-off-key quality to it (in a good way), and I'm wondering if that's why.
I think it is. Sounds like what Tim Donahue did with Madmen and Sinners (with JLB on vocals). He plays a fretless guitar.
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Solid song though I'm not sold of the vocals either. This should have been MP's collaboration with Russell Allen.
I'm not too familiar with Soto or Allen but Soto actually reminds me a lot of Allen...which is to say I'm not overly impressed.
I'll echo what many people said about the FII influence. I didn't sense it until the solo sections and that actually may have been my favorite part.
Pretty underwhelmed but I was also getting my hopes up for the project. I guess the track is pretty decent overall but I was expecting something more.
The lyrics though...probably the worst part.
Not sure if anyone can tell for sure, but is the main riff done on his fretless? It has this slightly almost-off-key quality to it (in a good way), and I'm wondering if that's why.
I think it is. Sounds like what Tim Donahue did with Madmen and Sinners (with JLB on vocals). He plays a fretless guitar.
I love that album. Such a weird/cool guitar sound. Hopefully we'll see some more with a fretless on this project.
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I've listened to it a couple times, and here are some of my quick thoughts:
- Can't shake off the feeling that the opening riff sounds just like Next to None... and that's not something good (for me).
- The vocals are fine. Not wow, but not bad either, just ok. Not my cup of tea.
- I don't like Billy's playing.
- The pre chorus sounds very good.
- Nothing too crazy about the instrumental part, but I still enjoyed it.
- Derek's solos, while very cool, sound exactly like every other solo he's recorded so far.
- The guitar solo spot is a direct attempt to pull of a FII. They had a softer, jazzier part for the solo just like LITS or TOT, but this one feels forced in some way. Still, Bumblefoot is an awesome guitar player and expect more of his amazing playing on the album.
So far it's not bad, but I'm not too crazy about it.
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I'm not too familiar with Soto or Allen but Soto actually reminds me a lot of Allen...which is to say I'm not overly impressed.
If you are saying he reminds you of Allen just because his vocals aren't your thing, then...well, okay. But I don't get any similar vibes at all. They don't really have much in common.
Pretty underwhelmed but I was also getting my hopes up for the project. I guess the track is pretty decent overall but I was expecting something more.
Yeah, I get it. And...tastes and all. But as I said somewhere else: "Nothing groundbreaking. But as a first “single” and first taste of the album, I like it. Kind of reminds me of Constant Motion in a way. Not because it sounds like it—it doesn’t. But just because, knowing MP and judging from the comments he made about it, it seems like a song he choose to be the initial taste because it is a driving, rocking tune to give a taste of the overall album tempo, but probably not nearly the strongest song on the album." Not sure if that helps or not, but just a thought I had.
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Derek and Ron are the ones I like most on this song, the rest is pretty standard prometal for me, not bad but not groundbreaking, but it could be a grower.
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I'm not too familiar with Soto or Allen but Soto actually reminds me a lot of Allen...which is to say I'm not overly impressed.
If you are saying he reminds you of Allen just because his vocals aren't your thing, then...well, okay. But I don't get any similar vibes at all. They don't really have much in common.
I've heard some Symphony X but don't remember it but what I know Allen from most is Adrenaline Mob. Obviously a good vocalist but his style never suited me. And yes, the style does remind me of Soto's. They both have been hailed as these great vocalists but have a more bluesy tone, not an outstanding range, and just overall underwhelming for me. This based off of the 3-4 songs I've heard of Soto's and the dozen or so I've heard from Adrenaline Mob.
I honestly see a similarity.
Pretty underwhelmed but I was also getting my hopes up for the project. I guess the track is pretty decent overall but I was expecting something more.
Yeah, I get it. And...tastes and all. But as I said somewhere else: "Nothing groundbreaking. But as a first “single” and first taste of the album, I like it. Kind of reminds me of Constant Motion in a way. Not because it sounds like it—it doesn’t. But just because, knowing MP and judging from the comments he made about it, it seems like a song he choose to be the initial taste because it is a driving, rocking tune to give a taste of the overall album tempo, but probably not nearly the strongest song on the album." Not sure if that helps or not, but just a thought I had.
It's funny you say that. Constant Motion is one of my favorite DT songs. Same goes for Rite of Passage (my favorite from BC&SL, not overall catalog though). Much easier to digest for an initial taste of the album. I totally get why they released those first.
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Pretty generic, honestly, and I listen to Circus Maximus. :D
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Shout out to really nice, signature MP cymbal work in the pre-choruses.
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It's fine and I will get the CD but it sounds like a cross between DT and S/X to me but with far less melody and cohesiveness. The rest may be better but as a "lead single" I far preferred "Enemy Inside" to this.
As for Portnoy's comments, you would think by now even he would be tired of over hyping everything he's involved with.
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I've heard some Symphony X but don't remember it but what I know Allen from most is Adrenaline Mob. Obviously a good vocalist but his style never suited me. And yes, the style does remind me of Soto's. They both have been hailed as these great vocalists but have a more bluesy tone, not an outstanding range, and just overall underwhelming for me. This based off of the 3-4 songs I've heard of Soto's and the dozen or so I've heard from Adrenaline Mob.
That explains a lot, actually. I'm not advocating that you should like Allen more than you do. You are entitled to like or not like whatever you choose, and I'm not trying to persuade you. But if your take on him as a vocalist is derived solely from Adrenaline Mob, you are getting a VERY unfairly narrow view of his singing ability. He has an incredible range and diverse palette.
Soto also has a pretty solid range. I agree about the bluesy tone. But although he is more comfortable in a high baritone range, he has a warmth and fullness that allow him to sign some nice bass when called for, and he has the range to nail to incredible high notes, as long as the songs don't call for him to stay way up in a high tenor range for a super extended period of time. Case in point (and I know Samsara disagrees with me on this), during his brief stint in Journey, he definitely has the range where he CAN sing Journey songs, and can go even higher than what is called for by those songs. But he really struggled because that isn't his natural range, and his voice just couldn't handle being constantly up there in that range for an entire set of material. But he's also a very accomplished, very diverse singer, although much less diverse than Allen. He could sing the neo-classical operatic power-metal that was called for when he sang with Yngwie. He can do the somewhat-Broadway-ish/power metal of Transiberian. But his comfort zone is straightforward blues-ish hard rock.
So I think both guys, but Allen ESPECIALLY, are much, MUCH more diverse singers in terms of range and style than what you have heard. But your explanation makes sense in terms of why you think as you do.
It's funny you say that. Constant Motion is one of my favorite DT songs. Same goes for Rite of Passage (my favorite from BC&SL, not overall catalog though). Much easier to digest for an initial taste of the album. I totally get why they released those first.
Yeah, I love Constant Motion. At first, I thought it was so-so, but I warmed up to it quickly and it became one of my favorites. But I think that, even among those that like it, the argument can be made that it isn't necessarily the strongest or most diverse song on the album. It was released as the album teaser for reasons that had less to do with it being a "strong" track than just as something rocking to generate interest. I get the sense (rightly or wrongly) that this one is in a similar vein with relation to the rest of the album. I guess we'll see.
As for Portnoy's comments, you would think by now even he would be tired of over hyping everything he's involved with.
??? Not sure why you would think that. He's in the business of hyping everything he's involved with. That's what musicians do (or should do). I don't get your point.
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My thoughts:
I love it more than I expected (not sure WHAT I expected to be honest, but it's a lot better than It could have been). It reminds me of like... FII era DT, aged 20 years, with a bit of Symphony X sprinkled in. (I have listened to some SX on and off... over the years). I totally get the slight Russel Allen feel, but it's slight.
And as others have said... if this is more of a straight up rocking preview of the album, and the best is yet to come, color me excite.
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The sound is pretty good overall but the song is prog-by-numbers with a good dash of obvious FII derivation, and I don't like the lyrics at all, thematically they are bad and grammatically/narratively they don't make a lot of sense in some places.
Great to hear Mike and Derek as always, and I always liked JSS, my husband got me hooked on Ron Thal's stuff and he sounds exactly as tasteful as I would have expected on this project.
Whoa, look who's back! :hefdaddy
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Finally...took about 20 other bands to come to this. I like it.
I don't see how this would compete with DT other than MP finally releasing a project in that same style. Its exactly how I thought itd sound based on MPs metal leanings and Dereks past works.
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Not blown away but it sounds good. Vocals are great, guitar solo was a bit much for me.
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Who here thinks Figaros Whore will be an Acapella track?
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God I hope not lol
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Who here thinks Figaros Whore will be an Acapella track?
My bet is in a solo piece from Derek.
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Who here thinks Figaros Whore will be an Acapella track?
My bet is in a solo piece from Derek.
Derek said he brought a finished piece for the album, so I think you might be right.
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I listened to it again, still not grabbing me. Symphony X with a Derek Sherinian solo. I think MP realizes with each group/super group/ project how special Petrucci is. Arguably one of the better players he has played with Gillette sounds like Petrucci. Bumblefoot is obviously a great guitar player but as far as song writing goes, he pales next to Petrucci. I am doe tying the name Petrucci.
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First listen and nothing really grabs my attention.
My first thought was that I would take DT over this any day...
Might grow.....
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My first thought was that I would take DT over this any day...
As much as I like it and as I may love the album and band as a whole, I think I will agree with this. It doesn't beat DT.
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I can't be the only one who thinks the main riff is a knock-off of Roots Bloody Roots by Sepultura.
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The name Figaros Whore sounds like one of Derek´s solo songs. I can´t believe he released an album called Molecular Heinosity ;D ;D ;D
I´ve been listening to Signs of The Time non stop today!!! AOR meets prog meets Sepultura...I love this track!!! Can you guys imagine if Mike started off with this as soon as he left DT in 2010? I guess it would change the perception of a lot of fans.
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I listened to it again, still not grabbing me. Symphony X with a Derek Sherinian solo. I think MP realizes with each group/super group/ project how special Petrucci is. Arguably one of the better players he has played with Gillette sounds like Petrucci. Bumblefoot is obviously a great guitar player but as far as song writing goes, he pales next to Petrucci. I am doe tying the name Petrucci.
Does he though?
I tend to agree. MP's post-DT career has been full of him working with some fantastic players, but nothing touches (IMO) what he was able to do with DT. In my mind that's because John Petrucci doesn't grow on trees. I certainly realize that more and more with each MP project, but I don't know if Mike does.
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On the itunes page Figaro's Whore is the only track marked as having explicit lyrics.
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I listened to it again, still not grabbing me. Symphony X with a Derek Sherinian solo. I think MP realizes with each group/super group/ project how special Petrucci is. Arguably one of the better players he has played with Gillette sounds like Petrucci. Bumblefoot is obviously a great guitar player but as far as song writing goes, he pales next to Petrucci. I am doe tying the name Petrucci.
Does he though?
I tend to agree. MP's post-DT career has been full of him working with some fantastic players, but nothing touches (IMO) what he was able to do with DT. In my mind that's because John Petrucci does grow on trees. I certainly realize that more and more with each MP project, but I don't know if Mike does.
Good point, I really don't know. Factor in that I feel MP thinks he was the creative force that made DT what it was. He definitely contributed, no doubt but DT without MP continues, DT without Petrucci is dead.
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Good point, I really don't know. Factor in that I feel MP thinks he was the creative force that made DT what it was. He definitely contributed, no doubt but DT without MP continues, DT without Petrucci is dead.
Yeah not to go down this well traveled DTF road, but regardless of how much people think one guy contributed or the other guy did - most here can agree that the combination of JP and MP, however it actually worked behind the scenes, is a combination that created some truly incredible music.
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Good point, I really don't know. Factor in that I feel MP thinks he was the creative force that made DT what it was. He definitely contributed, no doubt but DT without MP continues, DT without Petrucci is dead.
Yeah not to go down this well traveled DTF road, but regardless of how much people think one guy contributed or the other guy did - most here can agree that the combination of JP and MP, however it actually worked behind the scenes, is a combination that created some truly incredible music.
Yes for sure. There is no duplicating the magic from I and W through SFAM. I still love their stuff and really enjoyed The Astonishing but that era was magic.
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I think Mike has always felt that JP is truly special and he has repeatedly said as much, both while he was in DT and afterward. I don't think there has been any sort of increased (and, impliedly, regretful) realization post-DT. I don't get that perspective at all. But Mike has been fortunate enough to do projects with a LOT of very talented guitarists, including Steve Morse, Eric Gillette, and now Bumblefoot. They each bring something special to the table.
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On the itunes page Figaro's Whore is the only track marked as having explicit lyrics.
See Acapella song.
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I liked it! It wasn't groundbreaking, but it was good. I can see listening to it on occasion.
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Pretty good song. The vocals and vocal melodies did nothing for me, but the main riff was good and the guitar solo was nice. Maybe it will be a grower, but the singer's voice does nothing for me at all after one listen. That could change.
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I really like JSS, and thought the song was pretty good. I have high hopes for this project.
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Symphony X with a Derek Sherinian solo.
You're now at least the second person I have seen post something like that, so I have to ask: What makes you say that? I'm not hearing anything at all in this that made me think Symphony X, so I'm genuinely curious what makes a couple of you see similarities.
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Symphony X with a Derek Sherinian solo.
You're now at least the second person I have seen post something like that, so I have to ask: What makes you say that? I'm not hearing anything at all in this that made me think Symphony X, so I'm genuinely curious what makes a couple of you see similarities.
I can hear some modern SX in the chorus. Maybe a little in the main riff. It's not very strong, but I can hear it a bit.
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I don't hear it that much in the main intro riff or verse but the prechorus/chorus sounds just like modern day SX to me.
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Symphony X with a Derek Sherinian solo.
You're now at least the second person I have seen post something like that, so I have to ask: What makes you say that? I'm not hearing anything at all in this that made me think Symphony X, so I'm genuinely curious what makes a couple of you see similarities.
The riffs and the singing primarily. I am thinking along the lines of the album with Dehumanize. That gruff, somewhat bombastic singing. The part where they sing "hold on" just reminds me of symphony x. By the way that album, although I am pulling a blank on it's name is my favorite symphony x.
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Musically I don't think it sounds like Symphony X, but I could hear Russell Allen singing this (much better).
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I hate to draw ANY conclusions from track lengths. But I like that the songs are long enough to allow them to develop, but the track times aren't so overly long that it looks like they might meander all over the place. Signs of the Time is a good example of having a song long enough to have some interesting parts and enough development to take you on a bit of a journey without overstaying its welcome.
This is interesting, there's 4 songs clocking around 4 or 5 minutes. I guess it depends how much it is packed in the song. For example, The Gift of Music is a short song and it really feels longer with all the elements that has in it.
I read in some interview a time ago that Derek always prefered shorter albums and it's interesting to notice that this entire album clocks on 57:38, what, for comparation, it's shorter than the DT albums in which Portnoy/Petrucci were producers.
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I guess MP has jumped to Youtube to defend himself.
shawn murphy2 hours ago
Is Portnoy still in the band or did he leave already to join another band ?
I'm serious.
Reply
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Chris Reid
Chris Reid1 hour ago
shawn murphy this is a full time thing for him. He said there is going to be a 2018 tour too.
Reply
TheClay005
TheClay00552 minutes ago
Chris Reid he said that already to winery dogs. Id prefer the dogs than this new band. He said winery dogs is the thing. But then he jump from band to band.
Reply 1
Chris Reid
Chris Reid41 minutes ago
TheClay005 I love the winery dogs too, but I would like to hear more from these guys. Singles really don't represent a band. And one of the main reasons that the winery dogs are on hiatus is because Ritchie kotzen wanted to focus on his solo career for a little bit. But we will see what all happens in the future. Mike is going to have to slow down eventually or it will get to his health.
Mike Portnoy12 minutes ago
I do them ALL!!!
Of the 28 bands I've played with I only ever "left" two: DT (after 25 years) and AMOB (scheduling issues at the time w TWD)..
I can easily juggle multiple bands and have for many years now
SONS OF APOLLO is what we are focused on for 2018...but
I still have The Winery Dogs, Neal Morse Band, Flying Colors, Metal Allegiance, Transatlantic and if Twisted Sister decides to play more, them as well....If I can handle my schedule, then why should you or any other troll out there give a shit??
I LOVE music and love playing with other musicians
Enjoy it ALL!!!!
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He probably needs to stay off social media, but I don't really see anything wrong with what he said there.
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Why is "left" in quotes?
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I wonder why there's two different lenght for Signs of the Time in the tracklist info here:
https://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Sons_Of_Apollo_-_Psychotic_Symphony_-Ltd-_2CD_Mediabook-/16367
2CD editions means one with vocals and one instrumental?
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Why is "left" in quotes?
I am guessing it is because, although he ultimately had the say in leaving vs. being let go or only being a hired gun for a limited time, in both situations it was complicated and wasn't simply a matter of him unilaterally just packing his bags. In the case of DT, for example, while it was his decision, I know he feels that, from his perspective, he didn't have a choice because he had a need that the band inflexibly (from his perspective) refused to meet.
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I wonder why there's two different lenght for Signs of the Time in the tracklist info here:
https://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Sons_Of_Apollo_-_Psychotic_Symphony_-Ltd-_2CD_Mediabook-/16367
2CD editions means one with vocals and one instrumental?
Hard to say. It could be an alternative version. Or the description could just be a mistake. :dunno:
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Why is "left" in quotes?
I am guessing it is because, although he ultimately had the say in leaving vs. being let go or only being a hired gun for a limited time, in both situations it was complicated and wasn't simply a matter of him unilaterally just packing his bags. In the case of DT, for example, while it was his decision, I know he feels that, from his perspective, he didn't have a choice because he had a need that the band inflexibly (from his perspective) refused to meet.
Even though he wanted the other guys to quit their jobs while he went off and continued making money.
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Just heard the new track. I hate the low tuning on the guitar. Not enjoyable at all. It's why I can't enjoy recent Sym X. Also, JSS reminds me of Russell Allen, who does nothing for me. I hope JSS lets loose on the rest of the album. Can't believe this is the same guy on Marching Out.
But I loved the instrumental section. I will absolutely be getting this. So great to finally hear MP playing music that I actually find interesting. Only took 7 years..
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Zook, I'm not arguing that his position was reasonable. I'm just trying to articulate why I think he thinks it is more complicated than simply saying he left. Without getting into whether his position on the subject is reasonable or justified (I don't think it is), I think he is right about it being more complicated than that.
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He probably needs to stay off social media, but I don't really see anything wrong with what he said there.
I don't think he did either.
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Why is "left" in quotes?
I am guessing it is because, although he ultimately had the say in leaving vs. being let go or only being a hired gun for a limited time, in both situations it was complicated and wasn't simply a matter of him unilaterally just packing his bags. In the case of DT, for example, while it was his decision, I know he feels that, from his perspective, he didn't have a choice because he had a need that the band inflexibly (from his perspective) refused to meet.
Even though he wanted the other guys to quit their jobs while he went off and continued making money.
Hiatus: a pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process.
Sounds very different than what you said.
PROBABLY Mike thought the other guys could do something with their own projects while on HIATUS (see above for definition) and still make money
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I want to order the vinyl for this, but so far I'm only seeing it on the InsideOut shop which means shipping from Europe to the US, no thanks. Considering its a US-based band its a shame there's no better options, at least not yet. maybe something will get added later
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Why is "left" in quotes?
I am guessing it is because, although he ultimately had the say in leaving vs. being let go or only being a hired gun for a limited time, in both situations it was complicated and wasn't simply a matter of him unilaterally just packing his bags. In the case of DT, for example, while it was his decision, I know he feels that, from his perspective, he didn't have a choice because he had a need that the band inflexibly (from his perspective) refused to meet.
Even though he wanted the other guys to quit their jobs while he went off and continued making money.
Hiatus: a pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process.
Sounds very different than what you said.
PROBABLY Mike thought the other guys could do something with their own projects while on HIATUS (see above for definition) and still make money
He might have thought that, but how much money would they make in their relatively unknown side projects while Mike is making bank with Avenged Sevenfold.
If I took a hiatus from my job, I wouldn't get paid. He didn't ask to go on vacation, but I'm pretty sure musicians don't get vacation pay anyway. It was an unfair proposition.
@bosk: OK.
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I wonder what would have happened if he asked DT to keep touring with a fill in drummer for a bit.
Other bands seem to do that with no problem.
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Why is "left" in quotes?
I am guessing it is because, although he ultimately had the say in leaving vs. being let go or only being a hired gun for a limited time, in both situations it was complicated and wasn't simply a matter of him unilaterally just packing his bags. In the case of DT, for example, while it was his decision, I know he feels that, from his perspective, he didn't have a choice because he had a need that the band inflexibly (from his perspective) refused to meet.
Even though he wanted the other guys to quit their jobs while he went off and continued making money.
Hiatus: a pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process.
Sounds very different than what you said.
PROBABLY Mike thought the other guys could do something with their own projects while on HIATUS (see above for definition) and still make money
He might have thought that, but how much money would they make in their relatively unknown side projects while Mike is making bank with Avenged Sevenfold.
Not Mike's fault.
I guess making DT music it's ALL they want, and I know they have nothing to prove to anyone, but still, it's all about what we are guessing and nothing more.
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Enough of the MP x DT situation...now it's time for tour speculation. I suggest a double bill of Chickenfoot and Sons of a Pollo. What do you guys think?
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Why is "left" in quotes?
I am guessing it is because, although he ultimately had the say in leaving vs. being let go or only being a hired gun for a limited time, in both situations it was complicated and wasn't simply a matter of him unilaterally just packing his bags. In the case of DT, for example, while it was his decision, I know he feels that, from his perspective, he didn't have a choice because he had a need that the band inflexibly (from his perspective) refused to meet.
Even though he wanted the other guys to quit their jobs while he went off and continued making money.
Hiatus: a pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process.
Sounds very different than what you said.
PROBABLY Mike thought the other guys could do something with their own projects while on HIATUS (see above for definition) and still make money
He might have thought that, but how much money would they make in their relatively unknown side projects while Mike is making bank with Avenged Sevenfold.
If I took a hiatus from my job, I wouldn't get paid. He didn't ask to go on vacation, but I'm pretty sure musicians don't get vacation pay anyway. It was an unfair proposition.
@bosk: OK.
There's absolutely nothing stopping any of them from doing the same thing that he did in that situation. They're all world class musicians that could work with any number of higher paying acts under the right circumstances.
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Enough of the MP x DT situation...now it's time for tour speculation. I suggest a double bill of Chickenfoot and Sons of a Pollo. What do you guys think?
:lol
I see that.
With special guest Jimmie's Chicken Shack.
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With special guest Jimmie's Chicken Shack.
Seen them open for Fates Warning on the APSOG tour. Once was enough.
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Symphony X with a Derek Sherinian solo.
You're now at least the second person I have seen post something like that, so I have to ask: What makes you say that? I'm not hearing anything at all in this that made me think Symphony X, so I'm genuinely curious what makes a couple of you see similarities.
Vocal melody at 0:59 to 1:15 (and similar later) sounds just like a Symphony X melody.
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I don't really hear any SX in that song either.
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I hear some Symphony X, mainly the vox melodies.
song doesn't "wow" me, but its still better than anything on The Astonishing.
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I hear some Symphony X, mainly the vox melodies.
song doesn't "wow" me, but its still better than anything on The Astonishing.
It's really not.
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Why is "left" in quotes?
I am guessing it is because, although he ultimately had the say in leaving vs. being let go or only being a hired gun for a limited time, in both situations it was complicated and wasn't simply a matter of him unilaterally just packing his bags. In the case of DT, for example, while it was his decision, I know he feels that, from his perspective, he didn't have a choice because he had a need that the band inflexibly (from his perspective) refused to meet.
Even though he wanted the other guys to quit their jobs while he went off and continued making money.
Hiatus: a pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process.
Sounds very different than what you said.
PROBABLY Mike thought the other guys could do something with their own projects while on HIATUS (see above for definition) and still make money
He might have thought that, but how much money would they make in their relatively unknown side projects while Mike is making bank with Avenged Sevenfold.
If I took a hiatus from my job, I wouldn't get paid. He didn't ask to go on vacation, but I'm pretty sure musicians don't get vacation pay anyway. It was an unfair proposition.
@bosk: OK.
There's absolutely nothing stopping any of them from doing the same thing that he did in that situation. They're all world class musicians that could work with any number of higher paying acts under the right circumstances.
But why would they, they all are already in a high profile successful band. So MP can play with Avenged Sevenfold? A band is a relationship. Imagine Neil telling Geddy and Alex "Guys, I would like a break because I want to tour with Panic at the Disco"
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I like everything except for the main riff, which has been done to death.
Love the keyboard and guitar solos.
Vocals elevate it from the typical prog metal vocal.
Drums are mixed too high, but that was always going to happen.
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Why is "left" in quotes?
I am guessing it is because, although he ultimately had the say in leaving vs. being let go or only being a hired gun for a limited time, in both situations it was complicated and wasn't simply a matter of him unilaterally just packing his bags. In the case of DT, for example, while it was his decision, I know he feels that, from his perspective, he didn't have a choice because he had a need that the band inflexibly (from his perspective) refused to meet.
Even though he wanted the other guys to quit their jobs while he went off and continued making money.
Hiatus: a pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process.
Sounds very different than what you said.
PROBABLY Mike thought the other guys could do something with their own projects while on HIATUS (see above for definition) and still make money
He might have thought that, but how much money would they make in their relatively unknown side projects while Mike is making bank with Avenged Sevenfold.
If I took a hiatus from my job, I wouldn't get paid. He didn't ask to go on vacation, but I'm pretty sure musicians don't get vacation pay anyway. It was an unfair proposition.
@bosk: OK.
There's absolutely nothing stopping any of them from doing the same thing that he did in that situation. They're all world class musicians that could work with any number of higher paying acts under the right circumstances.
But why would they, they all are already in a high profile successful band. So MP can play with Avenged Sevenfold? A band is a relationship. Imagine Neil telling Geddy and Alex "Guys, I would like a break because I want to tour with Panic at the Disco"
I am sure MP explained himself pretty well why he wanted the hiatus. And the band refused, that's all we know, that's what we have, that's the end of the discussion I think.
But yes, I can imagine Neil asking those guys to take a break because he wants to tour with Panic at the Disco if that's what he wants to do. Of course Geddy and Alex can agree or dissagree with Neil and tell him to fuck off. Or, they can say, sure Neil, take your time while you are at it we will do other things, or do nothing at all. Many people here have said that DT it's a pretty stable/succesful band and I agree with that, so I don't think money it's an issue for taking a break, but that's my thoght, perhaps money IT IS an issue. But at the end it is only speculation on our part.
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song doesn't "wow" me, but its still better than anything on The Astonishing.
Ehhh.....let's not get carried away. It was an alright single or whatever but certainly nothing musically 'better' than the many instances of virtuosity in Astonishing. Just comparing drums alone any of MM's Astonishing songs blows MPs effort on this one away. The knack on MP is that he has a bag of tricks and he just rehashes them and it's really more of the same in this song.
Anyhoo......
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song doesn't "wow" me, but its still better than anything on The Astonishing.
Ehhh.....let's not get carried away. It was an alright single or whatever but certainly nothing musically 'better' than the many instances of virtuosity in Astonishing. Just comparing drums alone any of MM's Astonishing songs blows MPs effort on this one away. The knack on MP is that he has a bag of tricks and he just rehashes them and it's really more of the same in this song.
Anyhoo......
All that matters to me is that I could get through The Astonishing only once, while Psychotic Symphony will probably end up as one of my most listened to albums of the year. Also, since MM joined DT, I'm craving a good, warm drum sound, which MP delivers here.
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Why is "left" in quotes?
I am guessing it is because, although he ultimately had the say in leaving vs. being let go or only being a hired gun for a limited time, in both situations it was complicated and wasn't simply a matter of him unilaterally just packing his bags. In the case of DT, for example, while it was his decision, I know he feels that, from his perspective, he didn't have a choice because he had a need that the band inflexibly (from his perspective) refused to meet.
Even though he wanted the other guys to quit their jobs while he went off and continued making money.
Hiatus: a pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process.
Sounds very different than what you said.
PROBABLY Mike thought the other guys could do something with their own projects while on HIATUS (see above for definition) and still make money
He might have thought that, but how much money would they make in their relatively unknown side projects while Mike is making bank with Avenged Sevenfold.
Not Mike's fault.
Yes, but it's not about "fault." It's about the fact that he knew or should have known that he was putting them in a difficult situation. None of them were involved in big projects outside of DT other than Portnoy with A7X. Again, that's not about fault or blame. There's nothing "wrong" with that. But he should have realized that, because DT is the primary income source for the other members, and that they do not make money from any small side projects or solo albums they might do, and putting DT on hiatus puts a halt to their revenue stream, that a hiatus would put them all in a financial situation they weren't willing to put themselves in. Obviously, as you acknowledge, there is a lot of additional detail we don't know. But that fact alone justifies the band saying "no" to the proposition if that is what they were inclined to do.
I hear some Symphony X, mainly the vox melodies.
song doesn't "wow" me, but its still better than anything on The Astonishing.
It's really not.
Listen to Zook in all things.
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Why is "left" in quotes?
I am guessing it is because, although he ultimately had the say in leaving vs. being let go or only being a hired gun for a limited time, in both situations it was complicated and wasn't simply a matter of him unilaterally just packing his bags. In the case of DT, for example, while it was his decision, I know he feels that, from his perspective, he didn't have a choice because he had a need that the band inflexibly (from his perspective) refused to meet.
Even though he wanted the other guys to quit their jobs while he went off and continued making money.
Hiatus: a pause or gap in a sequence, series, or process.
Sounds very different than what you said.
PROBABLY Mike thought the other guys could do something with their own projects while on HIATUS (see above for definition) and still make money
He might have thought that, but how much money would they make in their relatively unknown side projects while Mike is making bank with Avenged Sevenfold.
Not Mike's fault.
Yes, but it's not about "fault." It's about the fact that he knew or should have known that he was putting them in a difficult situation. None of them were involved in big projects outside of DT other than Portnoy with A7X. Again, that's not about fault or blame. There's nothing "wrong" with that. But he should have realized that, because DT is the primary income source for the other members, and that they do not make money from any small side projects or solo albums they might do, and putting DT on hiatus puts a halt to their revenue stream, that a hiatus would put them all in a financial situation they weren't willing to put themselves in. Obviously, as you acknowledge, there is a lot of additional detail we don't know. But that fact alone justifies the band saying "no" to the proposition if that is what they were inclined to do.
I hear some Symphony X, mainly the vox melodies.
song doesn't "wow" me, but its still better than anything on The Astonishing.
It's really not.
Listen to Zook in all things.
I agree with all what you said Bosk1
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song doesn't "wow" me, but its still better than anything on The Astonishing.
Ehhh.....let's not get carried away. It was an alright single or whatever but certainly nothing musically 'better' than the many instances of virtuosity in Astonishing. Just comparing drums alone any of MM's Astonishing songs blows MPs effort on this one away. The knack on MP is that he has a bag of tricks and he just rehashes them and it's really more of the same in this song.
Anyhoo......
All that matters to me is that I could get through The Astonishing only once, while Psychotic Symphony will probably end up as one of my most listened to albums of the year. Also, since MM joined DT, I'm craving a good, warm drum sound, which MP delivers here.
What good does a good drum sound get you when your going to listen to the same fills, same odd time signature triggers and so on? I can totally get on board with the fact DT needs to have a better drum sound but I would bet my left eye that the actual playing MP produces on this record will be his bag of tricks just splattered in a different manner than the last album he recorded.
MP is a fantastic drummer....IMO bag of tricks or not his playing on Neal's Similitude of a Dream may be his top performance ever BUT MM is far more creative especially when it comes to bass kicks and fills.
This SOA album may be fantastic, we will know soon enough but all I've got to go off of right now is that release and IMO there was nothing on it that made me excited enough to jump up and down. It was all pretty tame and heard before.
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Sherinians latest tweet says "meet the new Kings of Progressive Metal"
Shouldnt that be an earned title? At least see if the band sticks together for a year before getting 'King' status :lol
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What good does a good drum sound get you when your going to listen to the same fills, same odd time signature triggers and so on? I can totally get on board with the fact DT needs to have a better drum sound but I would bet my left eye that the actual playing MP produces on this record will be his bag of tricks just splattered in a different manner than the last album he recorded.
But what's wrong with any of that?
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What good does a good drum sound get you when your going to listen to the same fills, same odd time signature triggers and so on? I can totally get on board with the fact DT needs to have a better drum sound but I would bet my left eye that the actual playing MP produces on this record will be his bag of tricks just splattered in a different manner than the last album he recorded.
But what's wrong with any of that?
I suppose nothing. Like I Said, Similitude of a Dream is IMO if not his best then one of his best ever. It was the implication that this generic song was 'better' than ANYTHING on the Astonishimg. That was silly in my eyes.
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Sherinians latest tweet says "meet the new Kings of Progressive Metal"
Shouldnt that be an earned title? At least see if the band sticks together for a year before getting 'King' status :lol
Yeah, Derek needs to curb his enthusiasm.
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Sherinians latest tweet says "meet the new Kings of Progressive Metal"
Shouldnt that be an earned title? At least see if the band sticks together for a year before getting 'King' status :lol
Exactly. See where you are at in 30 years, or even 10 years.
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Sherinians latest tweet says "meet the new Kings of Progressive Metal"
Shouldnt that be an earned title? At least see if the band sticks together for a year before getting 'King' status :lol
Exactly. See where you are at in 30 years, or even 10 years.
...or even one year? :lol
But, yeah, at the very least, those sorts of accolades are given by others and shouldn't be given to oneself.
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Good song. And yes it does sound like modern Symphony X.
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i hope they throw in a Queen cover in the live setlist. Jeff does a great job performing those songs
listen: https://youtu.be/Yob0Wpgcxns?t=3600
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I like it quite a bit! Even though the chorus makes me feel like I'm trapped in a Rocky movie somehow...
Love the guitar solo also. Can't wait for the whole album.
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Sherinians latest tweet says "meet the new Kings of Progressive Metal"
Shouldnt that be an earned title? At least see if the band sticks together for a year before getting 'King' status :lol
Sherinian strikes me as the kind of guy who makes those kind of bombastic statements with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek. Remember his "making history, AND YOU?" comment at the beginning of 5 Years in a Livetime? Sure, it's easy to think that he is becoming another Portnoy in the sense of being his own biggest cheerleader, but he has never struck me as having that kind of personality.
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I agree Kev.
We all remember the intro for 5 years ......
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Sherinians latest tweet says "meet the new Kings of Progressive Metal"
Shouldnt that be an earned title? At least see if the band sticks together for a year before getting 'King' status :lol
Sherinian strikes me as the kind of guy who makes those kind of bombastic statements with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek. Remember his "making history, AND YOU?" comment at the beginning of 5 Years in a Livetime? Sure, it's easy to think that he is becoming another Portnoy in the sense of being his own biggest cheerleader, but he has never struck me as having that kind of personality.
I can see that being the case.
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I agree Kev.
We all remember the into for 5 years ......
I agree, I think he is just playing around.
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He probably needs to stay off social media, but I don't really see anything wrong with what he said there.
I don't think he did either.
Except out if the full time bands he's been in (dt,am,wd, and I guess Neal Morse band is considered full time sort of) he's quit 50% of them and one of the two he's in now is in on extended hiatus. Not his choice but still not the immaculate track record he makes it out to be.
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I like the new song. Plenty of good hooks and I like the vocals. A bit less djenty riffs would be better for my taste, but it wasn't overdone.
Overall nothing new, but I don't expect this album to sound something new nor does it need to be for me.
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I like the song, but honestly, every DT first song released was better to me. Still look forward to the album as a whole.
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Sherinians latest tweet says "meet the new Kings of Progressive Metal"
Shouldnt that be an earned title? At least see if the band sticks together for a year before getting 'King' status :lol
Exactly. See where you are at in 30 years, or even 10 years.
...or even one year? :lol
But, yeah, at the very least, those sorts of accolades are given by others and shouldn't be given to oneself.
Yea but Derek has always liked to play the larger-than-life rock star role.
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Heard the track. It's all right, I guess. Probably something I would not listen too often. Not too keen on the vocals. Didn't enjoy this song as much as say Art of Anarchy's, which is another band that Bumblefoot is in that involves Disturbed's John Moyer and ....... Creed's Scott Stapp, The Madness and I'm meh on Art of Anarchy as well.
Still, I wish them luck and if Portnoy and Sherinian wants to make prog metal with this line-up, so be it. Hope there are some songs I like in this album.
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Sherinians latest tweet says "meet the new Kings of Progressive Metal"
Shouldnt that be an earned title? At least see if the band sticks together for a year before getting 'King' status :lol
Exactly. See where you are at in 30 years, or even 10 years.
...or even one year? :lol
But, yeah, at the very least, those sorts of accolades are given by others and shouldn't be given to oneself.
Yea but Derek has always liked to play the larger-than-life rock star role.
It's funny because when I was first getting into Dream Theater the friend that got me into them was actually getting out of them. He couldn't admit that he just lost interest in the music and would rip on their personalities, their shredding their metal Style etc. He told me about their home movies where the guitarist actually hired somebody spray his hands because they got too hot. He also told me the keyboardist is the most arrogant musician he's ever seen.
When I finally saw the videos the person that was spraying the guitarist hands was actually the first keyboardist and was doing it just to make sure that they were well lubed for a specific part of the song. They actually had a good humor about it. Didn't seem arrogant at all. Then in the other video the keyboardist said he was making history. My friend was like "see! He is so arrogant." And I'm like "what the hell dude? that was clearly a joke." Actually got into an argument with him because I was so sick of him ripping on this group that I was just getting into. He finally admitted "yeah I guess it was a joke." I love that about Derek.
Social media on the other hand is something that can be taken the wrong way. And pronouncing yourself the king of prog metal doesn't really come across as a joke unless you've got feather boas around your neck and lava lamps surrounding you. Not a very wise thing for Derek to do and some of his statements are kind of putting me off. This goes beyond simply him "making history."
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I guess that makes sense. I guess seeing Derek in the OIALT video you realize he is joking, if you didn't know anything about him then it could be taken differently.
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Wait...
Is that the video where he's spraying Fast Fret on JP's guitar during the recording of Space Dye?
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Changing the subject, I guess that everyone here already saw that there will be a limited editon, with 2 CDs:
https://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Sons_Of_Apollo_-_Psychotic_Symphony_-Ltd-_2CD_Mediabook-/16367
It's not specified, but it seems that the second CD is an instrumental version of the album. I guess no band hadn't done this before, but I would like a instrumental version of an album, with the vocal melodies replaced by an instrument, like guitar or keyboard. This would somenthing out of the ordinary! Well, I'll buy that edition anyway ;D
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I'm pretty meh on instrumental versions of the albums. I'd much rather see a bonus DVD with a documentary or demos or a studio jam. I'm never going to listen to an instrumental version because it'll just sound like something is missing (and I can selectively listen to ignore the vocals if I want anyway).
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Wait...
Is that the video where he's spraying Fast Fret on JP's guitar during the recording of Space Dye?
Yes, I think it's in the 5 Years in a Livetime video, Kevin Moore is spraying that stuff on Petrucci's hand. Petrucci screws up at the end and they all bust up laughing.
I think its funny my dumb former friend insisted to me that Petrucci hired somebody to spray his hands to cool them down while he's soloing because they get too warm. This was also before the "pycho excercises."
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My thoughts:
I love it more than I expected (not sure WHAT I expected to be honest, but it's a lot better than It could have been). It reminds me of like... FII era DT, aged 20 years, with a bit of Symphony X sprinkled in. (I have listened to some SX on and off... over the years). I totally get the slight Russel Allen feel, but it's slight.
And as others have said... if this is more of a straight up rocking preview of the album, and the best is yet to come, color me excite.
My thought's also!
Excited to hear more!
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Wait...
Is that the video where he's spraying Fast Fret on JP's guitar during the recording of Space Dye?
Yes, I think it's in the 5 Years in a Livetime video, Kevin Moore is spraying that stuff on Petrucci's hand. Petrucci screws up at the end and they all bust up laughing.
I think its funny my dumb former friend insisted to me that Petrucci hired somebody to spray his hands to cool them down while he's soloing because they get too warm. This was also before the "pycho excercises."
Out of curiosity, how old is your friend (or how old was he back then)? Sounds like he's about 16.
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Wait...
Is that the video where he's spraying Fast Fret on JP's guitar during the recording of Space Dye?
Yes, I think it's in the 5 Years in a Livetime video, Kevin Moore is spraying that stuff on Petrucci's hand. Petrucci screws up at the end and they all bust up laughing.
I think its funny my dumb former friend insisted to me that Petrucci hired somebody to spray his hands to cool them down while he's soloing because they get too warm. This was also before the "pycho excercises."
Out of curiosity, how old is your friend (or how old was he back then)? Sounds like he's about 16.
This would have been early 2000s so I think he was early to mid 20s. He was influenced by his older brothers though and they were late 20s early 30s. They were of the breed that listened to Dream Theater because it was intellectual music and then moved to only listen to jazz because Dream Theater music was too dumb while simultaneously talking about how arrogant DT was. I wish I was joking.
I mentioned in another post that he couldn't admit he had just grown out of DT and basically said I&W and Awake were the only two good albums. I did finally get him to admit he had just grown out of the music and it wasn't DT's fault. It happens. There are bands I still have tremendous respect for that I don't listen to anymore. I don't trash them. I just don't listen to them anymore.
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Derek sounds good on this 1st song.
Listening to it, I couldn't help but think: the idea of Mike and Derek playing prog metal sounds intriguing, but from the way this song sounds, some other people on the roster, might have appealed to me more. I.e. a different singer and guitarist.
However it's only 1 song; perhaps the rest of the record will be better. But I'm kind of skeptical, just for the fact Jeff Scott Soto is the singer. Not sure if his voice works well doing this kind of music, beyond sounding somewhat cliche prog metal.
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Derek sounds good on this 1st song.
Listening to it, I couldn't help but think: the idea of Mike and Derek playing prog metal sounds intriguing, but from the way this song sounds, some others people on the roster, might have appealed to me more. I.e. a different singer and guitarist.
However it's only 1 song; perhaps the rest of the record will be better. But I'm kind of skeptical, just for the fact Jeff Scott Soto is the singer. Not sure if his voice works well doing this kind of music, beyond sounding somewhat cliche prog metal.
I associate prog metal singers as being in the higher registers rather than JSS's more rock voice.
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I'm actually glad they went with someone like JSS rather than a more traditional, upper range, prog singer.
Mostly because....that stuff is out there by the truckloads. There's dozens of DT wannabes that can offer you exactly that. From the guy who helped change the face of prog? I want some of that innovation and artistry. Not just more of the same.
Now, it all comes down to the song-writing. It was okay, but not really impressive on the single, but I'm hoping it gets better.
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I'm actually glad they went with someone like JSS rather than a more traditional, upper range, prog singer.
Mostly because....that stuff is out there by the truckloads. There's dozens of DT wannabes that can offer you exactly that. From the guy who helped change the face of prog? I want some of that innovation and artistry. Not just more of the same.
Agreed. A guy like JSS in a band like this is a nice variation for me.
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Wait...
Is that the video where he's spraying Fast Fret on JP's guitar during the recording of Space Dye?
Yes, I think it's in the 5 Years in a Livetime video, Kevin Moore is spraying that stuff on Petrucci's hand. Petrucci screws up at the end and they all bust up laughing.
I think its funny my dumb former friend insisted to me that Petrucci hired somebody to spray his hands to cool them down while he's soloing because they get too warm. This was also before the "pycho excercises."
Out of curiosity, how old is your friend (or how old was he back then)? Sounds like he's about 16.
This would have been early 2000s so I think he was early to mid 20s. He was influenced by his older brothers though and they were late 20s early 30s. They were of the breed that listened to Dream Theater because it was intellectual music and then moved to only listen to jazz because Dream Theater music was too dumb while simultaneously talking about how arrogant DT was. I wish I was joking.
I mentioned in another post that he couldn't admit he had just grown out of DT and basically said I&W and Awake were the only two good albums. I did finally get him to admit he had just grown out of the music and it wasn't DT's fault. It happens. There are bands I still have tremendous respect for that I don't listen to anymore. I don't trash them. I just don't listen to them anymore.
Ugh. I guessed 16 because I often find that to be an ideal period for that typical teen insufferable and immature pretentiousness. You're turning from kid to adult, suddenly you feel like you know everything, you tackle new subjects, such as music, movies, politics, religion, relationships, and become quite the insufferable little prick in the process. Ideally, one would grow out of that by their mid-20s though.
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I listened a second time, and it got a little better, but i can't help but think this band would sound better with Russell Allen, which then makes me sad that this band wasn't created first before Adrenaline Knob. I hear the Symphony X comparisons, and definitely the Falling Into Infinity ones as well.
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Wait...
Is that the video where he's spraying Fast Fret on JP's guitar during the recording of Space Dye?
Yes, I think it's in the 5 Years in a Livetime video, Kevin Moore is spraying that stuff on Petrucci's hand. Petrucci screws up at the end and they all bust up laughing.
I think its funny my dumb former friend insisted to me that Petrucci hired somebody to spray his hands to cool them down while he's soloing because they get too warm. This was also before the "pycho excercises."
Out of curiosity, how old is your friend (or how old was he back then)? Sounds like he's about 16.
This would have been early 2000s so I think he was early to mid 20s. He was influenced by his older brothers though and they were late 20s early 30s. They were of the breed that listened to Dream Theater because it was intellectual music and then moved to only listen to jazz because Dream Theater music was too dumb while simultaneously talking about how arrogant DT was. I wish I was joking.
I mentioned in another post that he couldn't admit he had just grown out of DT and basically said I&W and Awake were the only two good albums. I did finally get him to admit he had just grown out of the music and it wasn't DT's fault. It happens. There are bands I still have tremendous respect for that I don't listen to anymore. I don't trash them. I just don't listen to them anymore.
Ugh. I guessed 16 because I often find that to be an ideal period for that typical teen insufferable and immature pretentiousness.
:(
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I didn'nt know that Bumblefoot is such a shredder, I haven't heard too much of his playing somewhere else, only on Chinese Democracy. Don't heard any of his solo albums, and there's a lot of them I can see now.
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Wait...
Is that the video where he's spraying Fast Fret on JP's guitar during the recording of Space Dye?
Yes, I think it's in the 5 Years in a Livetime video, Kevin Moore is spraying that stuff on Petrucci's hand. Petrucci screws up at the end and they all bust up laughing.
I think its funny my dumb former friend insisted to me that Petrucci hired somebody to spray his hands to cool them down while he's soloing because they get too warm. This was also before the "pycho excercises."
Out of curiosity, how old is your friend (or how old was he back then)? Sounds like he's about 16.
This would have been early 2000s so I think he was early to mid 20s. He was influenced by his older brothers though and they were late 20s early 30s. They were of the breed that listened to Dream Theater because it was intellectual music and then moved to only listen to jazz because Dream Theater music was too dumb while simultaneously talking about how arrogant DT was. I wish I was joking.
I mentioned in another post that he couldn't admit he had just grown out of DT and basically said I&W and Awake were the only two good albums. I did finally get him to admit he had just grown out of the music and it wasn't DT's fault. It happens. There are bands I still have tremendous respect for that I don't listen to anymore. I don't trash them. I just don't listen to them anymore.
Ugh. I guessed 16 because I often find that to be an ideal period for that typical teen insufferable and immature pretentiousness.
:(
Relax. You'll be 17 within a year ;D
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I'm actually glad they went with someone like JSS rather than a more traditional, upper range, prog singer.
Mostly because....that stuff is out there by the truckloads. There's dozens of DT wannabes that can offer you exactly that. From the guy who helped change the face of prog? I want some of that innovation and artistry. Not just more of the same.
Now, it all comes down to the song-writing. It was okay, but not really impressive on the single, but I'm hoping it gets better.
These are kind of my thoughts as well.
I like that they didn't go for the cliched prog metal singer, but it remains to be seen if I will take a liking to the singer they did get at all. I've listened to the song twice and had that "I wish they had a better singer" thought both times.
I am chuckling at some of the YT comments about the drums being too loud in the mix (I know, I know, why even read YT comments :lol :lol). Have they never heard a Portnoy record? The drums are always high in the mix!!
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It just seems that there wasn't much room for JSS to show off any talent.
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It just seems that there wasn't much room for JSS to show off any talent.
I would say the same for Billy. I don't think anyone's even mentioned him since this song was released. I myself forgot he was even in the band because this song doesn't have his usual flashy bass playing.
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It just seems that there wasn't much room for JSS to show off any talent.
I would say the same for Billy. I don't think anyone's even mentioned him since this song was released. I myself forgot he was even in the band because this song doesn't have his usual flashy bass playing.
Some would say that he is filling the role of John Myung. :P
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It just seems that there wasn't much room for JSS to show off any talent.
I would say the same for Billy. I don't think anyone's even mentioned him since this song was released. I myself forgot he was even in the band because this song doesn't have his usual flashy bass playing.
Which is one of the reasons I don't have a problem with the bass playing.
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I like JSS's performance and I think his voice suits the music.
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It just seems that there wasn't much room for JSS to show off any talent.
I would say the same for Billy. I don't think anyone's even mentioned him since this song was released. I myself forgot he was even in the band because this song doesn't have his usual flashy bass playing.
To me, this is great news ;D
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sherinian is really going for the US vs Them (DT) with his retweets. I guess they know where their market lies....
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sherinian is really going for the US vs Them (DT) with his retweets. I guess they know where their market lies....
Pretty "dangerous"' if he truly desires a comparison. It's gonna take an incredible album to be mentioned in the same breath as them.
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sherinian is really going for the US vs Them (DT) with his retweets. I guess they know where their market lies....
Pretty "dangerous"' if he truly desires a comparison. It's gonna take an incredible album to be mentioned in the same breath as them.
*sigh*
I just checked this out. This is really disappointing. I let art speak for itself and don't let personal bullshit affect my view of art, but all of these little jabs do create an extra hurdle for me to enjoy it. It's the type of thing that will really get my to resist buying it on the first day or going to see them in concert. I want to like this group and actually had hopes that I would find something of MPs post-DT to enjoy (i did eventually kind of like PSMS) but I'm about done.
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What happened?
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What happened?
Just more twitter retweeting crap that trashes Dream Theater and Mangini among other stuff.
Funny thing is, it's Sherinian that's worse than Portnoy at this point.
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I don't twitter. What was said?
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Meh. He's jacked about their band. Nothing will come out of the retweets.
Fans saying they hope the new album is better than DT. BIG whoop.
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People overreacting as usual.
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i'm not, but it seems like DS is really playing into that whole X vs DT camp kinda thing. So far they haven't surpassed anything DT's done. So it seems a bit childish to start your bands career to just be better than the band you were in before....
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Right! It's the internet. Where people go to extremes. No news here. Who cares it DS is playing it up. We all know he's trying to drum up hits to promote the new band.
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And you now that Sherinian and Stadler, er, Portnoy will eat it up every time someone on social media praises them and trashes Dream Theater. It's like high school!
(https://thisdistractedglobe.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/fast-times-at-ridgemont-high-1982-brian-backer-robert-romanus-pic-2.jpg)
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i'm not, but it seems like DS is really playing into that whole X vs DT camp kinda thing. So far they haven't surpassed anything DT's done. So it seems a bit childish to start your bands career to just be better than the band you were in before....
Why not, if people talk about it then that's a reason to buy. Its more the MP fans that are playing into that roll, guaranteed some already had that thought when they heard DS and MP.
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Should have just gotten Russell Allen again.
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Honestly DT could use some of that competitive fire.
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People overreacting as usual.
Absolutely.
And it's some wonderful free publicity those over-reactors are creating, too :lol
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The song is meh, nothing to get me interested. The vocals are just average, the rest has a touch of "heard it all before". I wasn't expecting much, now I know I will not listen to the album. As for the us vs them, they play the card to attract attention. It's OK for me. Yet, what I find amusing is that MP was among the people who fired DS when in DT, so... ::)
B.Lee
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I found myself having the chorus stuck in my head this morning. I don't really get people saying they don't like the vocals, I think they're awesome! And Bumblefoot's guitar playing is out of this world! :metal
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Fully take into account that this is the single and that doesn't always mean the best song but not a great first impression for me. I am a fan of Soto in Yngwie and Axel Rudi Pell so no problem with him although, when you see him live, he does look like someone who went to rockstar school, all cock rock posing.
The song though in my opinion sounds horrible in terms of production, sludgy downtuned uninspired riffing, average chorus and solos are ok, nothing more. Sounds like the worst bits of FII and all in all a very, very, very poor man's Dream Theater. Unless I hear more interesting stuff this may be the first MP project that I don't at least buy the first album (even if I never made it to album two on any of those new bands!)
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I understand that a first single isn't always representative of the sound of the entire album, rather it's meant to give you an idea of what to expect and to get you excited for the rest of the album. So far for me it hasn't done that. Another issue for me is that it doesn't even sound progressive. It sounds like a more refined Adrenaline Mob, but just as generic and uninspired. They're trying to sell this as a kind of rival band to DT, and I just don't see that.
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Another issue for me is that it doesn't even sound progressive. It sounds like a more refined Adrenaline Mob, but just as generic and uninspired. They're trying to sell this as a kind of rival band to DT, and I just don't see that.
But...it has keyboards.
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Yes, and?
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That means it's prog.
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Listened a second time and unfortunately my first impression still holds.... not buying the record on the merits of this song :-(
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Right! It's the internet. Where people go to extremes. No news here. Who cares it DS is playing it up. We all know he's trying to drum up hits to promote the new band.
Yup. Just Sherinian acting like the Blabbermouth trolls Portnoy always rails against. No big deal.
People overreacting as usual.
Absolutely.
And it's some wonderful free publicity those over-reactors are creating, too :lol
Yup. It's sure to go platinum now because some guy on a message board thought Sherinian was acting a bit immature.
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I agree with Madman Shepherd, don't like Derek's attitude at all.
I get it, he's got a new band that has potential to be succesful and he's very excited about it, but they've literally only released one song... ONE SONG! But he's already claiming to be the kings of prog metal. You haven't even released the album yet! How do you know people aren't going to hate it and never listen to it again? (don't think this is going to be the case, but we just don't know yet)
He's just sooooooo confident with this, that he doesn't realize some of his actions (and words, retweets, etc) aren't helping his image at all, the same way (to a degree) as Portnoy.
I can imagine the DT guys seeing all of this like :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
However, if this actually helps inspire DT to make a much better DT14, just to make them eat their words, it'll be worth it.
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Right! It's the internet. Where people go to extremes. No news here. Who cares it DS is playing it up. We all know he's trying to drum up hits to promote the new band.
Yup. Just Sherinian acting like the Blabbermouth trolls Portnoy always rails against. No big deal.
People overreacting as usual.
Absolutely.
And it's some wonderful free publicity those over-reactors are creating, too :lol
Yup. It's sure to go platinum now because some guy on a message board thought Sherinian was acting a bit immature.
How does this affect us in one bit. I'll by their album contrary to the Twitter chest pumping and I'll still buy DT. Think of it as WWE. :lol It's entertainment.
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I just posted this on the MP forum.
See I am trying to enjoy this and then this occurs. It's really immature. Why "beat" DT?? You were kicked out, I get the bitterness. You are now part of a new band, ironically with most likely the person who kicked you out, vindication and validation complete. So far seems like a great band, why beat anyone? What does "beating" even look like? Releasing a successful 1st album vs 13 albums and almost 30 years of history.
I am sure I am over reacting, but for me it does take away my enjoyment.
Derek Sherinian Retweeted
Martin Baur @DreamTheaterMB 22h22 hours ago More
Replying to @MikePortnoy @DerekSherinian
It's not easy to admit... but there's definitely a huge part of me that would love to see "new DT" beaten by @SonsOfApollo1 in every aspect!
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I agree with Madman Shepherd, don't like Derek's attitude at all.
I get it, he's got a new band that has potential to be succesful and he's very excited about it, but they've literally only released one song... ONE SONG! But he's already claiming to be the kings of prog metal. You haven't even released the album yet! How do you know people aren't going to hate it and never listen to it again? (don't think this is going to be the case, but we just don't know yet)
He's just sooooooo confident with this, that he doesn't realize some of his actions (and words, retweets, etc) aren't helping his image at all, the same way (to a degree) as Portnoy.
I can imagine the DT guys seeing all of this like :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
However, if this actually helps inspire DT to make a much better DT14, just to make them eat their words, it'll be worth it.
Retweeted
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Y'all are so sensitive, I swear. This stuff is fun! It's rock and roll, nothing wrong with a little edge and competitive fire. Why NOT be extremely confident?
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Y'all are so sensitive, I swear. This stuff is fun! It's rock and roll, nothing wrong with a little edge and competitive fire. Why NOT be extremely confident?
Spot on.
"Siiiirrr... Derek said his dad's stronger than my dad."
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Honestly DT could use some of that competitive fire.
Nah, they don't need it.. I hope they don't, although we cannot know when/if they do..
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Right! It's the internet. Where people go to extremes. No news here. Who cares it DS is playing it up. We all know he's trying to drum up hits to promote the new band.
Yup. Just Sherinian acting like the Blabbermouth trolls Portnoy always rails against. No big deal.
People overreacting as usual.
Absolutely.
And it's some wonderful free publicity those over-reactors are creating, too :lol
Yup. It's sure to go platinum now because some guy on a message board thought Sherinian was acting a bit immature.
How does this affect us in one bit. I'll by their album contrary to the Twitter chest pumping and I'll still buy DT. Think of it as WWE. :lol It's entertainment.
Actually this is a great comparison. When I see WWE on, I change the channel.
I just posted this on the MP forum.
See I am trying to enjoy this and then this occurs. It's really immature. Why "beat" DT?? You were kicked out, I get the bitterness. You are now part of a new band, ironically with most likely the person who kicked you out, vindication and validation complete. So far seems like a great band, why beat anyone? What does "beating" even look like? Releasing a successful 1st album vs 13 albums and almost 30 years of history.
I am sure I am over reacting, but for me it does take away my enjoyment.
Derek Sherinian Retweeted
Martin Baur @DreamTheaterMB 22h22 hours ago More
Replying to @MikePortnoy @DerekSherinian
It's not easy to admit... but there's definitely a huge part of me that would love to see "new DT" beaten by @SonsOfApollo1 in every aspect!
Good post. For the record, if I remember it correctly from Lifting Shadows, after the success of Liquid Tension Experiment, Petrucci approached Mike about asking Jordan to join. Mike agreed and then the two of them spoke to the other guys who were more hesitant especially John Myung who was in the band Platypus with Derek. They then had a conference call with him.
So yeah, it was Petrucci and Mike that were the catalysts for kicking Derek out.
Y'all are so sensitive, I swear. This stuff is fun! It's rock and roll, nothing wrong with a little edge and competitive fire. Why NOT be extremely confident?
Riiiiiiiight. Weeeeeee're the ones being sensitive. :lol By any chance, what shirt are you wearing right now? I hope to god it isn't a Dramatic Turn of Events shirt. >:(
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:lol
Madman, that was a great answer.
You just can't get too invested in an internet fight between bands. It's not healthy.
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It'll probably remain a one sided "fight" anyway seeing as Dream Theater have yet to take the bait all these years later.
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Y'all are so sensitive, I swear. This stuff is fun! It's rock and roll, nothing wrong with a little edge and competitive fire. Why NOT be extremely confident?
This so much. Zzzzzz
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Well, my post was deleted. Along with someone who agreed with me.
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Well, my post was deleted. Along with someone who agreed with me.
Sounds about right.
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I didn't even think my post was offensive.
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Well, my post was deleted. Along with someone who agreed with me.
Sounds about right.
Funny. People used to trash James on his message board while he was in the band. Now someone levels a constructive criticism about a current member of a different band and it gets deleted.
Fortunately there are people in this thread that are very against people being too sensitive. They'll be sure to call out MP any second now....
Any....
....second....
....now.
:heart
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Well, my post was deleted. Along with someone who agreed with me.
Sounds about right.
Fortunately there are people in this thread that are very against people being too sensitive. They'll be sure to call out MP any second now....
Yea he is also being sensitive. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Well, my post was deleted. Along with someone who agreed with me.
Sounds about right.
My first thought when I read it was that it would immediately be deleted. :lol
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As far as I can tell, there's no "fight", no "rivalry", and no "friendly competition" going on here AT ALL. Only the fans here are saying things like this by assuming and reading-in to some statements and creating something out of nothing.
Also, one band taking shots at another band is NOT a competition and it certainly isn't "friendly". Nobody from DT has acknowledged any of this and "fired back", as far as I know at least. It's just one band trying to start something that isn't there and the fans somehow thinking there's some kind of competition going on.
DT is, yet again, doing the right thing and staying away from all of this junk.
You know, if MP leaving was friendly or at least everyone was friends again and taking some fun shots at each other, then it would be fun, but the way it stands now is just one group with a couple of butthurts trying to prove something and start crap. Up until this I've loved DS's attitude (and I still think he has the best lead tone out of any keyboard player I've ever heard), but, again, since nobody on either side is truly "friendly" with the other it just comes across as douchie (or douchey, dunno which one is right).
You just can't get too invested in an internet fight between bands. It's not healthy.
But there *is* no fight between bands. It's one band taking shots at another for no reason other than to try and start shit.
As for the song itself, aside from DS's awesome sounds, it's pretty "meh" for me.
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Yup. You are right. DT stays away from the fodder.
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Yup. You are right. DT stays away from the fodder.
To a sometimes alarming degree. Look at the fiasco with the release of the Astonishing box set or the recent shows that were canceled, or not, or moved, or who knows because they were negligently quiet on the matter. I do wish that Petrucci would be a little more engaged, he has an ability to take on subjects in a tactful matter when I've seen him address them. For example, if he spoke about Sons of Apollo and competition, I can see it going like this: "Mike has returned to doing new progressive metal, which is really cool, and it's great that Derek right there in it as well. Every band is competing for album and ticket sales, but I'm really hoping everyone does well and we can bring this awesome music to all the people who want to hear it."
You can address it without flaring up the flames, which he does well.
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I agree, Nick. Sometimes it's good to just let the fans know you're there.
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Yup. You are right. DT stays away from the fodder.
To a sometimes alarming degree. Look at the fiasco with the release of the Astonishing box set or the recent shows that were canceled, or not, or moved, or who knows because they were negligently quiet on the matter. I do wish that Petrucci would be a little more engaged, he has an ability to take on subjects in a tactful matter when I've seen him address them. For example, if he spoke about Sons of Apollo and competition, I can see it going like this: "Mike has returned to doing new progressive metal, which is really cool, and it's great that Derek right there in it as well. Every band is competing for album and ticket sales, but I'm really hoping everyone does well and we can bring this awesome music to all the people who want to hear it."
You can address it without flaring up the flames, which he does well.
In all fairness, it's not as if John and the rest of the band promised to step up and continue the interfacing with the fans.
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Yup. You are right. DT stays away from the fodder.
To a sometimes alarming degree. Look at the fiasco with the release of the Astonishing box set or the recent shows that were canceled, or not, or moved, or who knows because they were negligently quiet on the matter. I do wish that Petrucci would be a little more engaged, he has an ability to take on subjects in a tactful matter when I've seen him address them. For example, if he spoke about Sons of Apollo and competition, I can see it going like this: "Mike has returned to doing new progressive metal, which is really cool, and it's great that Derek right there in it as well. Every band is competing for album and ticket sales, but I'm really hoping everyone does well and we can bring this awesome music to all the people who want to hear it."
You can address it without flaring up the flames, which he does well.
In all fairness, it's not as if John and the rest of the band promised to step up and continue the interfacing with the fans.
Yes, and aside from an initial push I do not believe they'd held true to that commitment.
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Another case in point is the novel. I've literally received no updates at all, despite having paid back in November 2016. Now, I know it has been delayed but I only know that because I've seen a couple of people post about it on this site. Is this the band's fault? Of course not. Is it more dreadful customer service under the Dream Theater brand? Yes. It is.
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I listened to the song one time, and I liked what I heard. It seems Derek has a lot of the same keyboard tone on the solos as he did in FII, which gets kind of old. I don't mean to compare, but I like JR's innovative tones and patches much more. Hopefully I'm just jumping the gun here, and Derek will have some innovative sounds on their upcoming release.
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EDIT: Lol, it's always good to read the previous post before hitting send. Take the below as a repetition of the above, with the addition that I think JR is as guilty of it as DS.
Ok, I gotta ask, what's with DT keyboard players sticking to their signature sound until the bitter end? FII is now 20 years old, but Derek is still using the same sound.
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Well, at least Jordan has changed, not necessarily for the better, some of his sounds, specially his lead, which he seems to tweak every couple years. Also, he's always looking for new sounds on his apps, the Continuum, the Seaboard, etc.
Derek has like 5 sounds and has been using them, and the same tricks, for the last 20 something years :lol
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I want to order the vinyl for this, but so far I'm only seeing it on the InsideOut shop which means shipping from Europe to the US, no thanks. Considering its a US-based band its a shame there's no better options, at least not yet. maybe something will get added later
You could check discogs.com once it drops. I had great luck on that site... actually, I finished my Dream Theater vinyl collection through that site (WDADU, and OIALT).
You can find a large selection of sellers from around the globe, and in many cases I found that there was a large amount of sales requiring PayPal.
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www.lasercd.com will have it. They will probably have pre-orders soon. Lasecd has become the North american webshop.
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EDIT: Lol, it's always good to read the previous post before hitting send. Take the below as a repetition of the above, with the addition that I think JR is as guilty of it as DS.
Ok, I gotta ask, what's with DT keyboard players sticking to their signature sound until the bitter end? FII is now 20 years old, but Derek is still using the same sound.
I think keyboard players get a bad rap. Guitarists keep the same sound, more or less, with minor modifications. People don't have a problem with it because, I'm assuming, guitars are just supposed to sound that way.
Keyboardist are expected to change because they can load 5 billion different patches. I too think keyboardists should switch it up but if they have a great go to sound like Derek does, then I think its great, especially if it's a signature of theirs.
On the flip side, I feel like Jordan switches his up too much just for the sake of doing something new. I guess he would get criticized if he didn't though. I thought his sound on Beneath the Surface was absolutely amazing so I was stoked when he used the same or a very similar sound for the solo in Along For the Ride (two incredibly underrated songs).
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I think keyboard players get a bad rap. Guitarists keep the same sound, more or less, with minor modifications. People don't have a problem with it because, I'm assuming, guitars are just supposed to sound that way.
Keyboardist are expected to change because they can load 5 billion different patches. I too think keyboardists should switch it up but if they have a great go to sound like Derek does, then I think its great, especially if it's a signature of theirs.
I've always felt this way.
Every guitar player can be identified by their unique tone but when a keyboard player has their own somehow it's not cool and I don't understand that.
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EDIT: Lol, it's always good to read the previous post before hitting send. Take the below as a repetition of the above, with the addition that I think JR is as guilty of it as DS.
Ok, I gotta ask, what's with DT keyboard players sticking to their signature sound until the bitter end? FII is now 20 years old, but Derek is still using the same sound.
I think keyboard players get a bad rap. Guitarists keep the same sound, more or less, with minor modifications. People don't have a problem with it because, I'm assuming, guitars are just supposed to sound that way.
Keyboardist are expected to change because they can load 5 billion different patches. I too think keyboardists should switch it up but if they have a great go to sound like Derek does, then I think its great, especially if it's a signature of theirs.
On the flip side, I feel like Jordan switches his up too much just for the sake of doing something new. I guess he would get criticized if he didn't though. I thought his sound on Beneath the Surface was absolutely amazing so I was stoked when he used the same or a very similar sound for the solo in Along For the Ride (two incredibly underrated songs).
I agree.
Furthermore, it has been about 20 years since a full DT-esque band made an album with this type of keyboard sound, no? (with vocalist and all, not too familiar with Derek's projects). For me, it is a welcome return (despite me not liking FII very much, but that is due to the actual songs, not the sound).
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I think keyboard players get a bad rap. Guitarists keep the same sound, more or less, with minor modifications. People don't have a problem with it because, I'm assuming, guitars are just supposed to sound that way.
Keyboardist are expected to change because they can load 5 billion different patches. I too think keyboardists should switch it up but if they have a great go to sound like Derek does, then I think its great, especially if it's a signature of theirs.
I've always felt this way.
Every guitar player can be identified by their unique tone but when a keyboard player has their own somehow it's not cool and I don't understand that.
I'm on the fence with this.
On one hand, yeah, it's weird that we don't demand versatility in sound from guitarists, bassists, drummers, but we do when it comes to keyboardists.
On the other hand, just listen to old-school Deep Purple. Jon Lord had such wide variety of sounds, and he was basically "just" using a Hammond organ. Case in point: "In Rock". There are no two songs on this album in which the organ sounds even remotely similar (compare the delicate softness of Speed King or Child in Time with the raw, heavy sound he had on Black Night or Hard Lovin' Man). He achieved all that variety by messing around with the drawbar/percussion settings and switching between Leslie and Marshall speakers. That's it.
These days, with the overabundance of technology and equipment, it's not unreasonable to expect more variety.
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Okay, but...Derek does employ a lot of variety in his playing. Even without going outside of what we have heard and looking at his discography as a whole, in this particular song, there are a ton of keyboard sounds. But the only one people are mentioning is his lead sound he uses during the solo.
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Okay, but...Derek does employ a lot of variety in his playing. Even without going outside of what we have heard and looking at his discography as a whole, in this particular song, there are a ton of keyboard sounds. But the only one people are mentioning is his lead sound he uses during the solo.
And we don't have a go at guitarists for having a signature sound. In fact it's pretty much a great thing. Remember when you could tell the player by his tone? Yeah, I miss that.
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Okay, but...Derek does employ a lot of variety in his playing. Even without going outside of what we have heard and looking at his discography as a whole, in this particular song, there are a ton of keyboard sounds. But the only one people are mentioning is his lead sound he uses during the solo.
But he more or less uses the same variety of sounds a guitar player would be putting a few effects on his sound here or there. Meaning a guitar player will play clean, or with distortion, or with a wah, or with a flanger effect. Sherinian probably uses more than the average guitar player but less than that cyborg Jordan Rudess. I've already said that Jordan might use TOO many sounds so I don't say that to criticize Sherinian.
I did notice in the new Songs of Apollo song, it sounded like he was using something similar to Jordan's "roaring lion" sound which he uses a lot of times to double the guitar when a distinct keyboard sound isn't appropriate for that particular section. I don't know if Derek ever used a patch similar to that while he was in the band.
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I hear a lot of more "traditional" ambient keyboard sounds going on in the background.
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Zakk Wylde is playing with Ozzy again. If he is involved with the next Ozzy record, will people throw a fit because he still sounds like Zakk?
No.
So I don't see the issue in Derek's lead sound sounding like it always does. *shrug*
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Zakk Wylde is playing with Ozzy again. If he is involved with the next Ozzy record, will people throw a fit because he still sounds like Zakk?
No.
So I don't see the issue in Derek's lead sound sounding like it always does. *shrug*
Actually yeah because Zakk has the most terrible guitar tone in metal. I mean, I won't really complain because thats why I haven't listened to anything the two of them have done since the late 90s.
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But are people complaining that Derek's lead tone is "terrible"? Or that it is the same tone he's used since the 90s?
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Actually yeah because Zakk has the most terrible guitar tone in metal. I mean, I won't really complain because thats why I haven't listened to anything the two of them have done since the late 90s.
I'll still take Zakk's terrible tone over Petrucci's on the latest two records. What happened John? :sadpanda:
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...Why "beat" DT?? You were kicked out, I get the bitterness...
Mike Portnoy was not in any way "kicked out" of Dream Theater. He left on his own accord and then publicly cried about it for seven years. That is what happened.
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...Why "beat" DT?? You were kicked out, I get the bitterness...
Mike Portnoy was not in any way "kicked out" of Dream Theater. He left on his own accord and then publicly cried about it for seven years. That is what happened.
True, but in fairness Derek Sherinian was kicked out from DT largely becuse of Mike Portnoy's wishes
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Zakk Wylde is playing with Ozzy again. If he is involved with the next Ozzy record, will people throw a fit because he still sounds like Zakk?
No.
So I don't see the issue in Derek's lead sound sounding like it always does. *shrug*
Actually yeah because Zakk has the most terrible guitar tone in metal. I mean, I won't really complain because thats why I haven't listened to anything the two of them have done since the late 90s.
I think Uli Jon Roth has a terrible guitar sound... Without knowing Zakk very well, I can't imagine him having a worse git sound than UJR :D
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Y'all are so sensitive, I swear. This stuff is fun! It's rock and roll, nothing wrong with a little edge and competitive fire. Why NOT be extremely confident?
Seriously, this.
Don't get me wrong, there is horrible, abusive stuff on Twitter and other places that is wrong and should never be written off as just online banter. But this? This is genuinely harmless and people are being ridiculous.
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...Why "beat" DT?? You were kicked out, I get the bitterness...
Mike Portnoy was not in any way "kicked out" of Dream Theater. He left on his own accord and then publicly cried about it for seven years. That is what happened.
True, but in fairness Derek Sherinian was kicked out from DT largely becuse of Mike Portnoy's wishes
Oh, my bad. Obviously bill1971 was talking about Derek, not MP. Thanks for pointing that out. :lol
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Just saw this link and thought it would be worth posting. It's a clip interviewing all 5 guys, how they came together and worked out the style of the band. Looking forward to hearing the album!
https://www.guitarworld.com/artist-news/mike-portnoy-bumblefoot-billy-sheehan-discuss-sons-apollo-exclusive-interview/31623#.WZxB7itNcdc.facebook
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Already very happy for the guys! I'm wishing commercial sucess to allow them to make this band a real priority :tup
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There is also music on the background we haven't heard yet, looking forward to this one!
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I don't know whether this was known before, but the album is available for pre-order on iTunes and thus you can see all the track lengths:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychotic-symphony/id1267878801
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https://youtu.be/I4B9hQX9lEY
"Introduction video Pt I"
Them chatting about how they got together etc.
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MP around an hour ago on his forum:
DTF?? That's still a "thing"???
Hahahaha worse trolls than Blabbermouth over there...
Life is so much better without reading their negativity every day...
And the music world is soooooo much bigger than the silly little bubble they all seem to live in...
Their loss!
I guess he can't help himself
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:lol
how is a discussion forum with people around the world a bubble?
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MP is always good to bring on the lolz
I like to believe he secretly reads these threads
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MP is always good to bring on the lolz
I like to believe he secretly reads these threads
I very much believe he does
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https://youtu.be/I4B9hQX9lEY
"Introduction video Pt I"
Them chatting about how they got together etc.
"Writing in the Studio"
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MP around an hour ago on his forum:
DTF?? That's still a "thing"???
Hahahaha worse trolls than Blabbermouth over there...
Life is so much better without reading their negativity every day...
And the music world is soooooo much bigger than the silly little bubble they all seem to live in...
Their loss!
I guess he can't help himself
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Now I'm waiting for some of Mike's blind followers to comment on this and try to explain to us how he's not saying anything wrong and that we're overreacting on everything he says :corn
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I totally 100% agree with MP on this one.
The Donald Trump Forum is horrible and filled with trolls.
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I totally 100% agree with MP on this one.
The Donald Trump Forum is horrible and filled with trolls.
:rollin
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Actually it's kinda funny. Most of the comments are defending DTF and pointing out that most of us are optimistic and excited about MP projects, just get tired of the SoA vs DT and other drama. So that kinda backfired on him
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MP around an hour ago on his forum:
DTF?? That's still a "thing"???
Hahahaha worse trolls than Blabbermouth over there...
Life is so much better without reading their negativity every day...
And the music world is soooooo much bigger than the silly little bubble they all seem to live in...
Their loss!
I guess he can't help himself
FFS. I just don't know what to say anymore.
I give Mike a lot of credit on a lot of things and try not to harp on the negative aspects, but shit like this just makes it difficult.
Edit: Not to mention than this forum that's "still a thing?" is more active in most if not all common metrics than his forum currently is.
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I totally 100% agree with MP on this one.
The Donald Trump Forum is horrible and filled with trolls.
:lol or maybe he meant Down To Fuck? Like the Jersey Shore apparently has a reunion show now, he may have not realized that's still a thing anymore like most others.
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Actually it's kinda funny. Most of the comments are defending DTF and pointing out that most of us are optimistic and excited about MP projects, just get tired of the SoA vs DT and other drama. So that kinda backfired on him
Yes, that is what I have been focusing on there.
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MP around an hour ago on his forum:
DTF?? That's still a "thing"???
Hahahaha worse trolls than Blabbermouth over there...
Life is so much better without reading their negativity every day...
And the music world is soooooo much bigger than the silly little bubble they all seem to live in...
Their loss!
I guess he can't help himself
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Now I'm waiting for some of Mike's blind followers to comment on this and try to explain to us how he's not saying anything wrong and that we're overreacting on everything he says :corn
I'm waiting for some of his blind followers to tell him he's being too sensitive.
Afterall, it's rock n' roll!
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Wow, that's a shame. I tried to sign onto MP's forum, but it's been so long, it doesn't seem like my password works.
I just can't think of a more insulting thing. And shameful. Did I say that?
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All kidding aside, I think this is why we will never see Mike Portnoy back in Dream Theater. He says he is friends with three of the members but I can't see that as anything more than them trying to keep the peace. While Petrucci doesn't keep up with the online musings of people like us, I doubt he is totally oblivious to Mike's outbursts like this one. I doubt it's worth the temporary bump in ticket sales to deal with this not to mention the inner workings of the band.
Oh and I'm sure Portnoy doesn't read DTF like Trump doesn't watch MSNBC. :lol
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All kidding aside, I think this is why we will never see Mike Portnoy back in Dream Theater.
Amen to that.
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I agree regarding MP back in DT. It would be too much drama. Mike is a good-hearted person I could see him when he turns maybe sixty or so regretting some of the things he has said and maybe felt more happy that DT was able to carry on and be happy for Mangini.
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I mean if Slash and Axl can makeup then maybe anybody can but Slash and Axl also had hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. Also, even at their worst, they never insulted each others music and Slash is also playing post-Slash songs.
In DT, I could see a Portnoy reunion bringing a temporary bump of a few hundred people per show maximum but it would level off after the first tour and go back to normal numbers. With the added problems I doubt it'd be worth it for them unless Mike had a big change of heart like bill was talking about.
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MP around an hour ago on his forum:
DTF?? That's still a "thing"???
Hahahaha worse trolls than Blabbermouth over there...
Life is so much better without reading their negativity every day...
And the music world is soooooo much bigger than the silly little bubble they all seem to live in...
Their loss!
I guess he can't help himself
FFS. I just don't know what to say anymore.
I give Mike a lot of credit on a lot of things and try not to harp on the negative aspects, but shit like this just makes it difficult.
Edit: Not to mention than this forum that's "still a thing?" is more active in most if not all common metrics than his forum currently is.
This. What a stupid comment.
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All kidding aside, I think this is why we will never see Mike Portnoy back in Dream Theater. He says he is friends with three of the members but I can't see that as anything more than them trying to keep the peace. While Petrucci doesn't keep up with the online musings of people like us, I doubt he is totally oblivious to Mike's outbursts like this one. I doubt it's worth the temporary bump in ticket sales to deal with this not to mention the inner workings of the band.
"Is your name 'Hammer'? Cuz you hit the nail on the head." I think I read that somewhere here. :)
MP has totally lost his marbles and it looks like he's taking Derek along with him. He's so bitter and grudge-filled I'm sure he'd make a great psychoanalytic thesis topic.
And, yes, he does read these forums but it's not a secret, his user name is well-known.
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All kidding aside, I think this is why we will never see Mike Portnoy back in Dream Theater. He says he is friends with three of the members but I can't see that as anything more than them trying to keep the peace. While Petrucci doesn't keep up with the online musings of people like us, I doubt he is totally oblivious to Mike's outbursts like this one. I doubt it's worth the temporary bump in ticket sales to deal with this not to mention the inner workings of the band.
"Is your name 'Hammer'? Cuz you hit the nail on the head." I think I read that somewhere here. :)
MP has totally lost his marbles and it looks like he's taking Derek along with him. He's so bitter and grudge-filled I'm sure he'd make a great psychoanalytic thesis topic.
And, yes, he does read these forums but it's not a secret, his user name is well-known.
I don't know his user name :P
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I don't know, that recent comment makes me think he doesn't have a clue what actually goes on here.
- Where are the trolls he mentions? Anyone making posts like that here gets swiftly told to cut it out, if not being outright banned for it when deserving. This forum is not a haven for trolls.
- We're worse than Blabbermouth? In which universe? Certainly not the same one I'm in. We're at least constructive in our criticism here, all they do is talk shit in any Blabbermouth comments I've wasted my time reading.
- I'm not entirely sure what he's implying with the bubble comment. That we only give a shit about DT and anything that sounds like DT? There are definitely people like that here, but I find this forum to be pretty diverse in tastes and discussions on a lot of different styles and genres of music once you leave the DT subforum and spend time in General Music. Significantly more diversity and less bubble-like than his own forum is.
I think he maybe read a thread about himself on here once, ages ago, only really noticed the negative ones and the lack of blind fanboy praise that he gets from his own forum, and decided that we're all trolls. I'm not convinced that he actively reads this forum at all.
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Interesting how the Trump comparison has come up, because I actually think the two have some strong personality similarities. They both desire public adulation, and when they don't get it to the level they feel they deserve, they lash out at the people withholding it and construct a "me vs the world" narrative. They both also view themselves as PR masterminds, but on a regular basis stick their foot in their mouths with predictable results.
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All kidding aside, I think this is why we will never see Mike Portnoy back in Dream Theater. He says he is friends with three of the members but I can't see that as anything more than them trying to keep the peace. While Petrucci doesn't keep up with the online musings of people like us, I doubt he is totally oblivious to Mike's outbursts like this one. I doubt it's worth the temporary bump in ticket sales to deal with this not to mention the inner workings of the band.
"Is your name 'Hammer'? Cuz you hit the nail on the head." I think I read that somewhere here. :)
MP has totally lost his marbles and it looks like he's taking Derek along with him. He's so bitter and grudge-filled I'm sure he'd make a great psychoanalytic thesis topic.
And, yes, he does read these forums but it's not a secret, his user name is well-known.
I don't know his user name :P
chaossystem
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All kidding aside, I think this is why we will never see Mike Portnoy back in Dream Theater. He says he is friends with three of the members but I can't see that as anything more than them trying to keep the peace. While Petrucci doesn't keep up with the online musings of people like us, I doubt he is totally oblivious to Mike's outbursts like this one. I doubt it's worth the temporary bump in ticket sales to deal with this not to mention the inner workings of the band.
"Is your name 'Hammer'? Cuz you hit the nail on the head." I think I read that somewhere here. :)
MP has totally lost his marbles and it looks like he's taking Derek along with him. He's so bitter and grudge-filled I'm sure he'd make a great psychoanalytic thesis topic.
And, yes, he does read these forums but it's not a secret, his user name is well-known.
I don't know his user name :P
chaossystem
OK, it was quite easy to figure out ;)
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All kidding aside, I think this is why we will never see Mike Portnoy back in Dream Theater. He says he is friends with three of the members but I can't see that as anything more than them trying to keep the peace. While Petrucci doesn't keep up with the online musings of people like us, I doubt he is totally oblivious to Mike's outbursts like this one. I doubt it's worth the temporary bump in ticket sales to deal with this not to mention the inner workings of the band.
"Is your name 'Hammer'? Cuz you hit the nail on the head." I think I read that somewhere here. :)
MP has totally lost his marbles and it looks like he's taking Derek along with him. He's so bitter and grudge-filled I'm sure he'd make a great psychoanalytic thesis topic.
And, yes, he does read these forums but it's not a secret, his user name is well-known.
I don't know his user name :P
chaossystem
:lol
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All kidding aside, I think this is why we will never see Mike Portnoy back in Dream Theater. He says he is friends with three of the members but I can't see that as anything more than them trying to keep the peace. While Petrucci doesn't keep up with the online musings of people like us, I doubt he is totally oblivious to Mike's outbursts like this one. I doubt it's worth the temporary bump in ticket sales to deal with this not to mention the inner workings of the band.
"Is your name 'Hammer'? Cuz you hit the nail on the head." I think I read that somewhere here. :)
MP has totally lost his marbles and it looks like he's taking Derek along with him. He's so bitter and grudge-filled I'm sure he'd make a great psychoanalytic thesis topic.
And, yes, he does read these forums but it's not a secret, his user name is well-known.
I don't know his user name :P
chaossystem
:lol I miss him....
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I thought he was back under the Stadler handle... ???
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MP around an hour ago on his forum:
DTF?? That's still a "thing"???
Hahahaha worse trolls than Blabbermouth over there...
Life is so much better without reading their negativity every day...
And the music world is soooooo much bigger than the silly little bubble they all seem to live in...
Their loss!
I guess he can't help himself
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Now I'm waiting for some of Mike's blind followers to comment on this and try to explain to us how he's not saying anything wrong and that we're overreacting on everything he says :corn
You know, the quasi-hip, oh-so-ironic "Inb4 some of Mike's blind followers [followed by disparaging comment that proves Mike is at least on to something, if not outright correct]" is tired. TWO OF YOU had to say "Mike's blind followers" as if it is incomprehensible why someone would be "Team Mike" at this point (there are 100 reasons, not least of which is the music which still flows like water, and is still the best part of all of this). Mike makes his post - which to be honest, I have not seen personally yet - and there are no less than 27 (24 if you take out the jokey ones and the one that claims I am him, he is me, and we are all together, goo goo gajoob) that pile on, including comparing him (not favorably, I might add) to the least popular and most polarizing President in the history of the union, and that INCLUDES Nixon.
Whether it was "right" or "wrong" is a matter of opinion; personally, not my style (a little confrontational for me), but so be it. But he's not so unrooted to be out of the realm of reality, like some of you are implying. I stuck up for him on the last go round and it was BRUTAL. I'm not at all easily swayed (go to the P/R forum; or ask Jingle) but I felt rather unwelcome, and all for simply having the temerity to give Mike the benefit of the doubt. For all your snarky confidence that you are right, I think some of you - not all, but some - have lost some perspective on just how brutal you can be. Only SOME of you are actually truly interested in honest discussion about him and his music. There are some of you here, well, that signature that is floating around (something to the effect of "Mike is always wrong, except when he's right, in which case he's still wrong" or something like that) is spot on.
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Well I can separate my love for his music to my disbelief of his posting. I still can't believe he cannot filter his emotions in his posts. (It's ironic thst it's self inflicted)
It still won't stop me from following 95% of what he releases.
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I stuck up for him on the last go round and it was BRUTAL.
Have you considered that not everything he is done is with sticking up for? It's an honest question. Often times it feels like you are doing it partially for the edgy look of going counter to everyone else. I have been very supportive of Mike's music, and have even tried multiple times in threads like Shattered Fortress to pull discussion away from the other crap back to the music. But why, when something like this happens would you go out of your way defend it?
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I stuck up for him on the last go round and it was BRUTAL.
The last go round was brutal. And it seems to be getting worse. I think as time goes by, people are less connected to MP. I know I am. Sons Of Apollo is the first thing I'm actually interested in, and it's been what, 7 years now?
But a lot of us here have been around for a long time and are not only big DT fans, but we're also big MP fans. He's a great musician, and as a fan, he was really a treat to follow while in DT with all the extras, etc...
I've always said that DT was my favorite band for many reasons, but Reason #1 was MP. Watching him perform, and the way he took care of the fans. That's why when he left it was such a blow. I was going to lose that.
I think a lot of people have moved past "disappointed" with his social media posts to "annoyed" with them as time and the connections drift away.
But I've also said that there's a fine line between criticism and being outright rude. I can't say there's aren't posts that are on the wrong side of it.
But MP insulting DTF is shooting himself in the foot. I've probably spent well over $1000 on DT between 1992 and 2010. I've been on DTF since 2004, and even joined the old board when SFAM came out.
I'm DTF and I'm insulted.
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I stuck up for him on the last go round and it was BRUTAL.
Have you considered that not everything he is done is with sticking up for? It's an honest question. Often times it feels like you are doing it partially for the edgy look of going counter to everyone else. I have been very supportive of Mike's music, and have even tried multiple times in threads like Shattered Fortress to pull discussion away from the other crap back to the music. But why, when something like this happens would you go out of your way defend it?
This. Stadler, I usually try to be pretty fair with MP (Nick is extremely fair and mostly positive with MP) but he (MP) basically dismissed and insulted a community you are apart of very directly. Not sure why you are cool with that...?
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Remember, he's taking this life day by day to be indifferent. He's in diffa reeeent.
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MP around an hour ago on his forum:
DTF?? That's still a "thing"???
Hahahaha worse trolls than Blabbermouth over there...
Life is so much better without reading their negativity every day...
And the music world is soooooo much bigger than the silly little bubble they all seem to live in...
Their loss!
I guess he can't help himself
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Now I'm waiting for some of Mike's blind followers to comment on this and try to explain to us how he's not saying anything wrong and that we're overreacting on everything he says :corn
You know, the quasi-hip, oh-so-ironic "Inb4 some of Mike's blind followers [followed by disparaging comment that proves Mike is at least on to something, if not outright correct]" is tired. TWO OF YOU had to say "Mike's blind followers" as if it is incomprehensible why someone would be "Team Mike" at this point (there are 100 reasons, not least of which is the music which still flows like water, and is still the best part of all of this). Mike makes his post - which to be honest, I have not seen personally yet - and there are no less than 27 (24 if you take out the jokey ones and the one that claims I am him, he is me, and we are all together, goo goo gajoob) that pile on, including comparing him (not favorably, I might add) to the least popular and most polarizing President in the history of the union, and that INCLUDES Nixon.
Whether it was "right" or "wrong" is a matter of opinion; personally, not my style (a little confrontational for me), but so be it. But he's not so unrooted to be out of the realm of reality, like some of you are implying. I stuck up for him on the last go round and it was BRUTAL. I'm not at all easily swayed (go to the P/R forum; or ask Jingle) but I felt rather unwelcome, and all for simply having the temerity to give Mike the benefit of the doubt. For all your snarky confidence that you are right, I think some of you - not all, but some - have lost some perspective on just how brutal you can be. Only SOME of you are actually truly interested in honest discussion about him and his music. There are some of you here, well, that signature that is floating around (something to the effect of "Mike is always wrong, except when he's right, in which case he's still wrong" or something like that) is spot on.
1) The Trump thing was literally one post, & even then, there was context to that comparison (detailing how they portray themselves in an us vs them manner when not achieving their high self-standard for public reputation).
2) I only counted 12 posts (10 if you don't count posts just saying "I agree") since Mike's comment that were actually serious & not jokes
3) I don't see why the number of posts is relevant to how brutal we are. If 50 people replied to this quote saying "this post was kinda mediocre", are they being too brutal too?
4) Why are you acting like this is so out of proportion? After all, he directly insulted us. I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, but were you honestly not expecting a reaction?
5) As some people have already pointed out, most of the thread when it isn't coming down to Mike's comments was actually speculating & discussing the new album. Clearly the implication that we don't understand his "music still flowing like water, and is still the best part of all of this" is false.
6) Even so, separation of artist from art is still a thing that should (& often does) happen.
7) Aside from those points, this statement doesn't really prove any of us wrong except "guys, you're being mean".
8) If that's honestly a concern to you that we're going too far, check with the mods, that's their job after all. They haven't said anything on the situation (at least not yet) & the rules explicitly state that stuff like name-calling & nonconstructive criticism (with direct reference to MP mind you). Hell, some of them have directly taken part in this thread, so I doubt it's really gotten too out of hand.
9) "Mike is always wrong, except when he's right, in which case he's still wrong" I'm pretty sure that's Hef's signature with Blob talking about him ("Hef is right on all things, except when I disagree with him, in which case he's probably still right"), so nice going there.
10) I sure do love how much of this post is dedicated to how the jokes we make towards you aren't funny. It really shows your objectivity in the situation
:hat
tl;dr git gud
Edit: wow, quadra-ninja'd :lol
Edit 2: Grammar is hard
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It's pretty clear to me that MP is at war with anything Dream Theater related. The last few comments from him and Derek shows me that Sons of Apollo is in direct competition with DT, at least from their POV. I just don't understand the need to bash a whole community of people who may criticize his social media activity but for the most part still strongly support his musical output. MP is one of my favorite musicians of all time, hell just a week ago I met him at the meet and greet for the NMB show and he really was a nice guy. I just hope the Sons of Apollo camp quit with this childish snarkiness and let the music speak for itself. After all that's what it's all about right? A fan should never feel like they have to choose who to like because of some stupid high school type feud.
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It's pretty clear to me that MP is at war with anything Dream Theater related. The last few comments from him and Derek shows me that Sons of Apollo is in direct competition with DT, at least from their POV. I just don't understand the need to bash a whole community of people who may criticize his social media activity but for the most part still strongly support his musical output. MP is one of my favorite musicians of all time, hell just a week ago I met him at the meet and greet for the NMB show and he really was a nice guy. I just hope the Sons of Apollo camp quit with this childish snarkiness and let the music speak for itself. After all that's what it's all about right? A fan should never feel like they have to choose who to like because of some stupid high school type feud.
Good post. And all that kinda sucks because SoA is really his first project post-DT that I think could be really good. But all this extra stuff is literally making it harder for me to be excited about that band.
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Also, glad to see that a lot of people on the MP Forum are sticking up for the DTF and there are some pretty direct comments to MP. Of course the discussion got shut down quick, but it would be nice to see MP post a response.
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I post regularly on MP's forum but am not afraid to call BS regardless of who says it... keepin' them honest. Wait, that's Cooper's line...
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He mocks anything involved in his past but he is the reason he is so hurt. He caused his own pain and then he lashes back all these years later instead of focusing on the positive of his new band.
I will buy the cd of course, I am seeing The Neal Morse Band tonight, but I cannot say I am happy about Mike and him not letting go.
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I find this whole thing to be incredibly sad. When MP left DT, I was upset, shocked, worried, you name it. I decided I wasn't going to take sides, and everything at the (very very) beginning seemed like it was going to be friendly between the two.
As things started to get heated, I probably vacillated between the two - sometimes I felt more on MP's side and sometimes more on DT's. As time went on however, MP's comments started to bother me more and more. There is no reason any of us should have to be "team Mike" or "team DT." We should be able to be fans of both if we like the music. That should really be the only consideration - I like Flying Colors, I don't like Adrenaline Mob, I like ADTOE, it's all good.
Some people truly don't like DT's output since MP left - fair enough. Some don't like any of MP's, and that's OK too. But most of us, I'm pretty sure, like at least something that both have done in the last 7 years. We shouldn't have to choose. To be fair - MP isn't coming out and asking us to choose, and I realize that. However, his own comments and retweeting of negative comments is like one of the parents in a divorce constantly badmouthing the other. DT isn't pushing any of that, and Mike is, and it just puts a really bad taste in my mouth. I try not to let it affect my interest in his projects, but I can't help it. It does. Why can't he just stop? Say "the more the merrier" and welcome people who are still fans of DT and don't want to constantly see that crap?
I haven't even been on this forum for a whole year, have only posted a little bit, and even I feel that comment of his is totally ridiculous.
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IF MP were smart about this, he would use DTF to his advantage. I'm sure if he kept things civil and positive Bosk would have no problem with him here. He could engage the fans, speak enthusiastically about DT and his post DT work, share info about his projects and in the end probably drive up his concert and album revenue by winning over those with a sour attitude toward him and maybe making some new fans.
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As I mentioned in a message to someone else who forwarded Mike's comment to me, sadly, this doesn't surprise me in the least. Despite the fact that I allow people to express constructive criticism along with praise, this site is and has always been first and foremost a fan-run public relations vehicle to promote the band. Sad that he doesn't get that and never has. He also can't seem to grasp that this site is full of MP fans, including the guy that run it (i.e., me). And that's a bummer for him because he's turning people off rather than taking advantage of the fact that this site could be used as another means to better promote all of his projects. If he wanted us to, and would stop sniping at us (and me personally), I would be the first to say "Whatever I can do to help, Mike, just let me know and I'm onboard."
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I stuck up for him on the last go round and it was BRUTAL.
Have you considered that not everything he is done is with sticking up for? It's an honest question. Often times it feels like you are doing it partially for the edgy look of going counter to everyone else. I have been very supportive of Mike's music, and have even tried multiple times in threads like Shattered Fortress to pull discussion away from the other crap back to the music. But why, when something like this happens would you go out of your way defend it?
Of course I do. I'm not a real fan of the comment about DTF, and not just because I post here. It's not necessary. I'm more bugged by the notion that I can't stick up for ANYTHING without being a "blind follower". I'm not defending what he said (I even said "not something I would have done; too confrontational" or something like that). I'm pushing back on the TWO posts that said "Mike's blind followers", as if it is incomprehensible that anyone would give him even the slightest benefit of the doubt. We can all disagree and be fair about it. We don't have to engage in the sort of ad homimem arguments (that is, argue the merit of the DEBATOR as opposed to the argument itself) that seem to also spring up around these discussions. We don't need the commentary.
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MP around an hour ago on his forum:
DTF?? That's still a "thing"???
Hahahaha worse trolls than Blabbermouth over there...
Life is so much better without reading their negativity every day...
And the music world is soooooo much bigger than the silly little bubble they all seem to live in...
Their loss!
I guess he can't help himself
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Now I'm waiting for some of Mike's blind followers to comment on this and try to explain to us how he's not saying anything wrong and that we're overreacting on everything he says :corn
You know, the quasi-hip, oh-so-ironic "Inb4 some of Mike's blind followers [followed by disparaging comment that proves Mike is at least on to something, if not outright correct]" is tired. TWO OF YOU had to say "Mike's blind followers" as if it is incomprehensible why someone would be "Team Mike" at this point (there are 100 reasons, not least of which is the music which still flows like water, and is still the best part of all of this). Mike makes his post - which to be honest, I have not seen personally yet - and there are no less than 27 (24 if you take out the jokey ones and the one that claims I am him, he is me, and we are all together, goo goo gajoob) that pile on, including comparing him (not favorably, I might add) to the least popular and most polarizing President in the history of the union, and that INCLUDES Nixon.
Whether it was "right" or "wrong" is a matter of opinion; personally, not my style (a little confrontational for me), but so be it. But he's not so unrooted to be out of the realm of reality, like some of you are implying. I stuck up for him on the last go round and it was BRUTAL. I'm not at all easily swayed (go to the P/R forum; or ask Jingle) but I felt rather unwelcome, and all for simply having the temerity to give Mike the benefit of the doubt. For all your snarky confidence that you are right, I think some of you - not all, but some - have lost some perspective on just how brutal you can be. Only SOME of you are actually truly interested in honest discussion about him and his music. There are some of you here, well, that signature that is floating around (something to the effect of "Mike is always wrong, except when he's right, in which case he's still wrong" or something like that) is spot on.
1) The Trump thing was literally one post, & even then, there was context to that comparison (detailing how they portray themselves in an us vs them manner when not achieving their high self-standard for public reputation).
2) I only counted 12 posts (10 if you don't count posts just saying "I agree") since Mike's comment that were actually serious & not jokes
3) I don't see why the number of posts is relevant to how brutal we are. If 50 people replied to this quote saying "this post was kinda mediocre", are they being too brutal too?
4) Why are you acting like this is so out of proportion? After all, he directly insulted us. I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, but were you honestly not expecting a reaction?
5) As some people have already pointed out, most of the thread when it isn't coming down to Mike's comments was actually speculating & discussing the new album. Clearly the implication that we don't understand his "music still flowing like water, and is still the best part of all of this" is false.
6) Even so, separation of artist from art is still a thing that should (& often does) happen.
7) Aside from those points, this statement doesn't really prove any of us wrong except "guys, you're being mean".
8) If that's honestly a concern to you that we're going too far, check with the mods, that's their job after all. They haven't said anything on the situation (at least not yet) & the rules explicitly state that stuff like name-calling & nonconstructive criticism (with direct reference to MP mind you). Hell, some of them have directly taken part in this thread, so I doubt it's really gotten too out of hand.
9) "Mike is always wrong, except when he's right, in which case he's still wrong" I'm pretty sure that's Hef's signature with Blob talking about him ("Hef is right on all things, except when I disagree with him, in which case he's probably still right"), so nice going there.
10) I sure do love how much of this post is dedicated to how the jokes we make towards you aren't funny. It really shows your objectivity in the situation
:hat
tl;dr git gud
Edit: wow, quadra-ninja'd :lol
Edit 2: Grammar is hard
IDontNotDoThings, you nailed it 100%. Stadler, as someone who more often than not (not always, but more often than not) backs you in P/R for your reasoning, you have not displayed that same reasoning and objectivity in this thread. You are completely off base on this. Criticism of Mike's specific statement and/or actions (or anyone else's, for that matter), whether well-taken or not, are allowed as long as they do not become personal shots at his character. Those that cross the line are called out by the mod/admin team and promptly dealt with. But constructive criticism is and has always been allowed, provided it is constructive and tactful. Not everyone has the same ability frame things in a way that comes across as constructive or tactful, so there will always be borderline posts on a LOT of different topics here that may come across as a bit more harsh than what someone subjectively believes should be posted. But that is VERY hard to regulate, and I typically err on the side of letting people talk and hash it out rather than me stepping in every time I think something toes the line. I say all that to say that, yeah, the site isn't perfect. But it is a far, FAR cry from being the bash-fest that you are implying it is. It isn't and never has been anything close to that. You really aren't being objective here.
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I stuck up for him on the last go round and it was BRUTAL.
Have you considered that not everything he is done is with sticking up for? It's an honest question. Often times it feels like you are doing it partially for the edgy look of going counter to everyone else. I have been very supportive of Mike's music, and have even tried multiple times in threads like Shattered Fortress to pull discussion away from the other crap back to the music. But why, when something like this happens would you go out of your way defend it?
This. Stadler, I usually try to be pretty fair with MP (Nick is extremely fair and mostly positive with MP) but he (MP) basically dismissed and insulted a community you are apart of very directly. Not sure why you are cool with that...?
Who said I was "cool" with that? In fact, I'm not. I'm (hopefully) meeting him Friday at the NMB concert, and - this from a guy that's been on stage, I've played in front of a thousand people, I've spoken to groups at least that size, I've met celebrities before, etc. - I'm actually nervous. Do I say I'm "Stadler"? Do I shut my mouth? Is it okay to bring "Images and Words" to be signed (I bought it in '92 on release, and it has been a top ten album all time for me since that point)? And then to hear him completely slag off a place where I have something like a brazillion posts... no, it doesn't feel good. But then again, I'm not easily offended, and more importantly, the arbiter of whether something is right/appropriate/legit or not is not now and never has been "am I offended"? Whether I'm offended or not in my view doesn't factor in.
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It is really sad MP has taken that tone regarding this forum. Then again, it's not unique to this place. I remember Tate being the same way toward my old forum. The thing is, public figures (which Mike is, unlike most of all of us) with thin skin don't like not being in control of what is said about them. On one hand, I think we all get that. On the other hand, Mike could make an effort to see what really goes on at this place, and see that it does a fine job of PROMOTING him, it just doesn't kiss his ass.
As bosk1 said, had MP just reached out to him and tried to work together to promote MP's projects, I am sure that would happen in a positive manner, as long as people retained their right to be respectfully critical. But MP's ego (I assume -- I don't really know) doesn't allow for that. It really is a shame. I know MP has some personal friends on here. I'm not telling those of you who fit that description to do something you don't want to do, but it would benefit Mike and this community to broker a more positive discussion between MP and bosk1, so MP has a better understanding of how this place is run, and that it DOES support him, and bosk1 can better understand why MP is frustrated.
We're all grown ups. It'd be nice if a grown up approach was taken, instead of little spiteful comments. Just my .02 based on more than a decade in the same position as bosk1. :lol
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Who said I was "cool" with that? In fact, I'm not. I'm (hopefully) meeting him Friday at the NMB concert, and - this from a guy that's been on stage, I've played in front of a thousand people, I've spoken to groups at least that size, I've met celebrities before, etc. - I'm actually nervous. Do I say I'm "Stadler"? Do I shut my mouth? Is it okay to bring "Images and Words" to be signed (I bought it in '92 on release, and it has been a top ten album all time for me since that point)? And then to hear him completely slag off a place where I have something like a brazillion posts... no, it doesn't feel good. But then again, I'm not easily offended, and more importantly, the arbiter of whether something is right/appropriate/legit or not is not now and never has been "am I offended"? Whether I'm offended or not in my view doesn't factor in.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not offended by what MP said, I just think it was out of line and that he shouldn't have said it. Oh, I also think what he said is simply wrong, as others have pointed out, his view of this place seems to be forever skewed for whatever reason.
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10) I sure do love how much of this post is dedicated to how the jokes we make towards you aren't funny. It really shows your objectivity in the situation
:hat
I was going to let this go as rehashing what we've already said, but I have to respond to this. What "jokes"? "Mike's blind followers" is not a "joke" and I'm not sure you can insinuate that it is with any credibility. I have no problem taking jokes at my expense - in fact, I'm used to it from my offline life; it's how my friends and I interact (we've had, more than once, someone "outside" say "do you guys know each other? Is everything cool?"). I have an exceedingly thick skin when I know there's at least a modicum of affection behind it. There's no "affection" behind "Mike's blind followers". It's just contempt and thinly veiled at that.
The only other thing I can think of is Kev's comment, which was hilarious (and I only mentioned it to purposefully exclude it from the serious post count).
We'd have been fine here if the thread was "posting of Mike's comments" and "suitable response to it, pro or con". Instead, it was SO heavy handed that we had to make sure that we insulted those that felt a shade more compassion for Mike and who might be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. That's the only reason I posted about it.
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The thing is, public figures (which Mike is, unlike most of all of us) with thin skin don't like not being in control of what is said about them.
This perhaps gets to the root of why I take Mike's attitude and comments toward this place very personally and find them very hurtful. Yeah, as much as I try to let it roll off and keep positive, I'll go ahead and just say it bluntly: I am personally very hurt by Mike's comments. And a big reason behind that is that I completely get what you just said and try to be VERY aware of it. As much as a lot of artists talk about having a thick skin when it comes to reading criticism of their own work, it's got to be VERY hard. Yeah, they are public figures. And on one hand, that means they SHOULD maybe just be able to be objective and let criticism roll of their back. But the other side of that is, art of any kind tends to be a VERY personal thing. You aren't "just a public figure." As an artist, you are a public figure that often really puts yourself out there in the public in a very personal and vulnerable way when you share your personal art with the public. That makes it hard to see your art criticized, EVEN WHEN THE CRITICS MEAN IT CONSTRUCTIVELY. And to make matters worse, even professional critics often tend to be harsh and insensitive. Then you add in the modern problem of social media where EVERYBODY has a platform and many do not have an appropriate filter. It's hard for an artist. It really is.
So that being said, the reason comments like Mike's bother me personally is because I have gone out of my way to acknowledge that I get that. I have said as much on this forum repeatedly when I feel that "constructive criticism" is no longer constructive and crossed the line. It underlies my very philosophy on how I run this forum. And I have told Mike Portnoy that to his face. I have gone out of my way to be sensitive to the feelings of the artists we post about on this forum. So to more or less have that thrown back in my face doesn't sit well with me at all.
On the other hand, Mike could make an effort to see what really goes on at this place, and see that it does a fine job of PROMOTING him, it just doesn't kiss his ass.
Bingo.
I'm not telling those of you who fit that description to do something you don't want to do, but it would benefit Mike and this community to broker a more positive discussion between MP and bosk1, so MP has a better understanding of how this place is run, and that it DOES support him, and bosk1 can better understand why MP is frustrated.
Thanks for that. But the thing is, somebody who posts here that is very close to Mike (I won't say his name in case he doesn't necessarily want to be drawn into this) HAS told him that in the past. And I have told Mike the same to his face. He has been told unequivocally that I and this forum support him. More than once. By more than one person. The only thing I can conclude is that he is just too stubborn to look past his own feelings to care.
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Mike's got a bad attitude, but he's not wrong about the music bubble.
When I click on the music subforum here and see the bands with threads on the first page, I do tend to think to myself "huh... you'd think people stopped making good music 20 years ago"
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Good post Bosk. If MP can't understand that this place generally supports him and helps promote him, then I don't think there's anything that is going to change his mind.
I'm DTF and I'm insulted.
I feel the same way. Some of us have spent a lot of time here interacting and talking music. Sometimes we are critical, but only in terms of our own personal tastes towards music. I really feel like most of us are fans and are only discussing things, not actually hating on MP or any of his music. It's sad he sees things differently and that's unfortunate.
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It is really sad MP has taken that tone regarding this forum. Then again, it's not unique to this place. I remember Tate being the same way toward my old forum. The thing is, public figures (which Mike is, unlike most of all of us) with thin skin don't like not being in control of what is said about them. On one hand, I think we all get that. On the other hand, Mike could make an effort to see what really goes on at this place, and see that it does a fine job of PROMOTING him, it just doesn't kiss his ass.
As bosk1 said, had MP just reached out to him and tried to work together to promote MP's projects, I am sure that would happen in a positive manner, as long as people retained their right to be respectfully critical. But MP's ego (I assume -- I don't really know) doesn't allow for that. It really is a shame. I know MP has some personal friends on here. I'm not telling those of you who fit that description to do something you don't want to do, but it would benefit Mike and this community to broker a more positive discussion between MP and bosk1, so MP has a better understanding of how this place is run, and that it DOES support him, and bosk1 can better understand why MP is frustrated.
We're all grown ups. It'd be nice if a grown up approach was taken, instead of little spiteful comments. Just my .02 based on more than a decade in the same position as bosk1. :lol
Tate was negative towards your forum? I can see that. Although the last year or so he seems to really be at peace with himself. In an interview recently he even said he wound up being on the same bill as QR and he made a point to go up and say hi to the guys. He also complimented the singer as well. It was an interview recently on you tube, if anyone is interested I can try to hunt it down.
I really hope MP gets to that point. Saying something like Mangini killed it on Metropolis or have to admit Breaking All Illusions has that classic DT sound.
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IDontNotDoThings, you nailed it 100%. Stadler, as someone who more often than not (not always, but more often than not) backs you in P/R for your reasoning, you have not displayed that same reasoning and objectivity in this thread. You are completely off base on this. Criticism of Mike's specific statement and/or actions (or anyone else's, for that matter), whether well-taken or not, are allowed as long as they do not become personal shots at his character. Those that cross the line are called out by the mod/admin team and promptly dealt with. But constructive criticism is and has always been allowed, provided it is constructive and tactful. Not everyone has the same ability frame things in a way that comes across as constructive or tactful, so there will always be borderline posts on a LOT of different topics here that may come across as a bit more harsh than what someone subjectively believes should be posted. But that is VERY hard to regulate, and I typically err on the side of letting people talk and hash it out rather than me stepping in every time I think something toes the line. I say all that to say that, yeah, the site isn't perfect. But it is a far, FAR cry from being the bash-fest that you are implying it is. It isn't and never has been anything close to that. You really aren't being objective here.
I don't see even one - not ONE - reference to a position that isn't completely negative against Mike that isn't labeled something prejudicial like "Mike's blind followers". Why was that necessary? Where is even ONE POST that says something like "well, I can see both sides of this, but..." or "wow, I understand Mike might have hard emotions about this site, but...".
Nope. It's "Mike's blind followers" and "Mike's butt hurt" (and don't ever fail to throw in the requisite "but it's his OWN DOING!" because we can't forget that). I am far more objective than I seem. I don't like the sniping. It bothers me to no end that my favorite guitar player of all time - Ritchie Blackmore - can't have a civil conversation about his old band, and in fact, can't even refer to Ian Gillan in any other way other than "the singer". It bothers me when Kiss snipe at each other (some of you know me to be a huge Kiss fan), and even more when the sniping is the standard "Gene's an asshole and Paul's a homo". I've met both personally, more than once, and they are both incredibly polite, giving, aware people, at least in the public setting. It bothered me greatly when Bruce and Steve Harris were on the outs. It, frankly, bothers me that someone who is so erudite, who is SO knowledgeable about music, and so amiable in so many ways, constantly feels the need to have public conversations that are best had private. If I was king, if it was my world, Mike and John and James and Jordan and John would be locked in Bearsville Studio and told "don't come out until you a) have a new opus, or b) have settled all your differences and agreed to move on", but that's not how life works.
What you DON'T see from me is calling people who see things differently than I do names. Go back to my post; I never said anyone bashing him was "blind" in their hate, or irrational, or unreasonable, or butthurt. Nothing like that.
Bosk, for the record - and this is not ass kissing at all, just my observation - I think you're one of the best mods I've ever had the pleasure of sharing a forum with. I think the mod as "grand all powerful wizard with supreme bannination powers that will be wielded at his and his alone leisure" is a tired cliché and an anachronism. I think it takes grace, intelligence and maturity to moderate a forum with such disparate personalities, cultures and opinions, so I want to be clear, I was not at all calling into question the moderation, and I wasn't at all saying that things were said that shodul have been stopped. Just the opposite; no one said anything that in my view was bannable, you're entitled to your opinions. I just don't think the opinion that the two sides are "Mike is an irrational uncontrollable fool with a Twitter account" and "Mike's blind followers" is fair or accurate.
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Who said I was "cool" with that? In fact, I'm not. I'm (hopefully) meeting him Friday at the NMB concert, and - this from a guy that's been on stage, I've played in front of a thousand people, I've spoken to groups at least that size, I've met celebrities before, etc. - I'm actually nervous. Do I say I'm "Stadler"? Do I shut my mouth? Is it okay to bring "Images and Words" to be signed (I bought it in '92 on release, and it has been a top ten album all time for me since that point)? And then to hear him completely slag off a place where I have something like a brazillion posts... no, it doesn't feel good. But then again, I'm not easily offended, and more importantly, the arbiter of whether something is right/appropriate/legit or not is not now and never has been "am I offended"? Whether I'm offended or not in my view doesn't factor in.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not offended by what MP said, I just think it was out of line and that he shouldn't have said it. Oh, I also think what he said is simply wrong, as others have pointed out, his view of this place seems to be forever skewed for whatever reason.
And Mikey, you and I are pretty much in agreement on all of that, even if I would have worded it differently. That's not the issue. The issue is how the conversation THEN immediately devolves into "Mike being butthurt" and "inb4 Mike's blind followers say anything that isn't pre-approved, official grade-A commentary on Mike's mind set, his mental state, or his character". It's just not necessary, and beyond legit "criticism of the art", I can see why it's hurtful to Mike, in much the same way that Bosk is (legitimately, in my humble opinion) hurt.
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Stadler, the problem is that 6 years later, we still see Mike taking shots and we really don't hear the DT members doing so. Mike was the one that left but acts like he isn't at fault. I love Mike's music dearly and will always follow him but he cuts himself and then blames others for the blood. He should move on to the positive of the music he is doing today.
I can't wait for whatever new music he's involved with. His focus should be on that, not the past in which he had a big part for not being with the band still.
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I just don't think the opinion that the two sides are "Mike is an irrational uncontrollable fool with a Twitter account" and "Mike's blind followers" is fair or accurate.
Well, good, because hardly anyone said anything that approaches this descriptions. And for those few that did, the context in which those comments were made casts them in a very different light than how you are casting them. If you truly believe that I possess at least some measure of "grace, intelligence and maturity" in the way I moderate this forum, I would suggest that maybe you take a bit more heed of my opinion of your posting in this thread. Especially when there are so many other posters (many of whom I would classify as being some of our most-reasoned and well-spoken members) have expressed similar opinions.
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Who said I was "cool" with that? In fact, I'm not. I'm (hopefully) meeting him Friday at the NMB concert, and - this from a guy that's been on stage, I've played in front of a thousand people, I've spoken to groups at least that size, I've met celebrities before, etc. - I'm actually nervous. Do I say I'm "Stadler"? Do I shut my mouth? Is it okay to bring "Images and Words" to be signed (I bought it in '92 on release, and it has been a top ten album all time for me since that point)? And then to hear him completely slag off a place where I have something like a brazillion posts... no, it doesn't feel good. But then again, I'm not easily offended, and more importantly, the arbiter of whether something is right/appropriate/legit or not is not now and never has been "am I offended"? Whether I'm offended or not in my view doesn't factor in.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not offended by what MP said, I just think it was out of line and that he shouldn't have said it. Oh, I also think what he said is simply wrong, as others have pointed out, his view of this place seems to be forever skewed for whatever reason.
And Mikey, you and I are in complete agreement on all of that, even if I would have worded it differently. That's not the issue. The issue is how the conversation THEN immediately devolves into "Mike being butthurt" and "inb4 Mike's blind followers say anything that isn't pre-approved, official grade-A commentary on Mike's mind set, his mental state, or his character".
I get it, but I'm discussing what MP said, not people's reactions to what MP said. That said, from where I sit - largely the reaction here has been pretty fair and reasonable, IMO. There will always be some outliers but generally, I think people here have been okay.
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The thing about it, is I don't recall spontaneous MP bashing. Maybe that he uses the same fills or same bag of tricks or something like that but not personal. It's usually just commenting on his retweets or his comments. Like this incident. Nobloodyname(we are cool by the way) was just responding to me and mentioned that I said something on DTF and MP started bashing this site out of no where. Ironically my post was positive about Derek and the band. I just said "I hope this doesn't get deleted" because my previous post was.
This is what I posted
Ok, hopefully this doesn't get deleted. I was happy to read these statements by Derek, seems like he has a lot of respect for DT and it's members and would even be open to opening for them. Also, he doesn't view it as a competition, which I am also glad. It's like the stupid DC vs Marvel, why not enjoy both? This interview actually got me more excited for the album than the song they released or the snippets.
Lee: The minute Sons of Apollo was announced, some fans drew comparisons to Dream Theater. Since you used to be in Dream Theater, how would you compare the two?
Derek: I think it’s a totally different animal. We are a rock band. Dream Theater is not a rock band; they are a prog band. I think they have distortion, but I don’t think there’s any rock pedigree there. It’s like comparing apples and oranges.
Lee: Like comparing, I don’t know, Stratovarius or Symphony X with Led Zeppelin, maybe?
Derek: It’s a different thing. I’ll tell you what, though: a lot of fans would like to see a tour with Sons of Apollo and Dream Theater.
Lee: It would probably need [Dream Theater guitarist] John Petrucci’s approval, and I don’t see that happening.
Derek: You know what? One thing I’ve learned in this business is that the unexpected often happens. You never, never know. We’re not in competition, though. We’re in our own lane and we’re breaking ground with this record. We’re going to let the music do the talking.
Lee: Speaking of the technical side, I’m not sure if you heard, but your recent interview about John Petrucci ‘finding his cyborg in [Dream Theater keyboardist] Jordan Rudess’ stoked much debate in prog forums. It really stirred up the hornets nest. What do you think about this sort of back and forth? It seemed like quite an innocuous comment to me.
Derek: Throughout the years, a lot of people I talk to say [Dream Theater] is cold and technical. But I want to tell you from playing with those guys, to be able to play those passages consistently every night on tour, you have to respect that whether you like their music or not. That’s what I have to say about that. John is a consistent guy. He’s amazing. He plays great every night.
https://www.classicrockrev..._interview.php?id=1232
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I just don't think the opinion that the two sides are "Mike is an irrational uncontrollable fool with a Twitter account" and "Mike's blind followers" is fair or accurate.
Well, good, because hardly anyone said anything that approaches this descriptions. And for those few that did, the context in which those comments were made casts them in a very different light than how you are casting them. If you truly believe that I possess at least some measure of "grace, intelligence and maturity" in the way I moderate this forum, I would suggest that maybe you take a bit more heed of my opinion of your posting in this thread. Especially when there are so many other posters (many of whom I would classify as being some of our most-reasoned and well-spoken members) have expressed similar opinions.
One, I do truly believe what I wrote. Two, I'm not sure what "take heed" means (in a practical sense; I understand what you wrote). Where does me "taking heed" come in when I'm the one being called "Mike's blind follower" - or, laughably, a "blind minion" over at MP's site! - even when I don't exactly agree with what he did (or most of his Tweeting for that matter)? How does that lead to me being singled out for my lack of objectivity?
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Who said I was "cool" with that? In fact, I'm not. I'm (hopefully) meeting him Friday at the NMB concert, and - this from a guy that's been on stage, I've played in front of a thousand people, I've spoken to groups at least that size, I've met celebrities before, etc. - I'm actually nervous. Do I say I'm "Stadler"? Do I shut my mouth? Is it okay to bring "Images and Words" to be signed (I bought it in '92 on release, and it has been a top ten album all time for me since that point)? And then to hear him completely slag off a place where I have something like a brazillion posts... no, it doesn't feel good. But then again, I'm not easily offended, and more importantly, the arbiter of whether something is right/appropriate/legit or not is not now and never has been "am I offended"? Whether I'm offended or not in my view doesn't factor in.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not offended by what MP said, I just think it was out of line and that he shouldn't have said it. Oh, I also think what he said is simply wrong, as others have pointed out, his view of this place seems to be forever skewed for whatever reason.
And Mikey, you and I are in complete agreement on all of that, even if I would have worded it differently. That's not the issue. The issue is how the conversation THEN immediately devolves into "Mike being butthurt" and "inb4 Mike's blind followers say anything that isn't pre-approved, official grade-A commentary on Mike's mind set, his mental state, or his character".
I get it, but I'm discussing what MP said, not people's reactions to what MP said. That said, from where I sit - largely the reaction here has been pretty fair and reasonable, IMO. There will always be some outliers but generally, I think people here have been okay.
And I'm talking about people's reactions, not what was said. I even said - on MP's forum - that I disagreed with his statement, and yet I'm a "blind follower" and over there I was called - directly, by name - a "blind minion". How insulting (at least from the perspective that if I'm a "blind minion", you'd think I'd have access to the vaults by now!).
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I think it's just in your DNA to question everything and you love to debate! I have to read your posts twice to soak in everything. :lol What I do disagree with is that like a juror, I get the information, and MP leaves a lot of evidence online and it all points to most fans seeing Mike as guilty.
I'd rather have a hung jury and enjoy both side (Which I choose to do)
I think that if Mike was kicked out of the band most fans would understand his anger towards them, but he left, forced them to decide and sometimes you have to man up and say "I need to move on and it was my choice in the first place". It's not healthy do hold on to that resentment.
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Nobloodyname(we are cool by the way) was just responding to me and mentioned that I said something on DTF and MP started bashing this site out of no where. Ironically my post was positive about Derek and the band.
You know, MP's post was literally the last one I read before going to sleep last night. I read it and laughed, saying something like, "jeeesus, MP... that's going to cause a load of trouble". I certainly hadn't expected him to quote me wagging my finger at you (too strongly, as I admitted over at MP.com).
I've always liked MP. I like the way he wears his heart on his sleeve because I generally prefer people like that in 'real' life, and it makes him seem more human. But, for me, his criticism came almost out of nowhere and was mostly, although not absolutely, unwarranted.
Stadler, you're not alone in what you think regarding the ad hominems and some of the criticism of MP here. "Blind followers" was simply unnecessary and rude to fellow forum members.
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Nobloodyname(we are cool by the way) was just responding to me and mentioned that I said something on DTF and MP started bashing this site out of no where. Ironically my post was positive about Derek and the band.
You know, MP's post was literally the last one I read before going to sleep last night. I read it and laughed, saying something like, "jeeesus, MP... that's going to cause a load of trouble". I certainly hadn't expected him to quote me wagging my finger at you (too strongly, as I admitted over at MP.com).
I've always liked MP. I like the way he wears his heart on his sleeve because I generally prefer people like that in 'real' life, and it makes him seem more human. But, for me, his criticism came almost out of nowhere and was mostly, although not absolutely, unwarranted.
Stadler, you're not alone in what you think regarding the ad hominems and some of the criticism of MP here. "Blind followers" was simply unnecessary and rude to fellow forum members.
See the trouble we caused? :)
BTW, did you just see what Derek tweeted!!!???
Just kidding. :)
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Kindness.
It's not that hard.
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I just don't think the opinion that the two sides are "Mike is an irrational uncontrollable fool with a Twitter account" and "Mike's blind followers" is fair or accurate.
Well, good, because hardly anyone said anything that approaches this descriptions. And for those few that did, the context in which those comments were made casts them in a very different light than how you are casting them. If you truly believe that I possess at least some measure of "grace, intelligence and maturity" in the way I moderate this forum, I would suggest that maybe you take a bit more heed of my opinion of your posting in this thread. Especially when there are so many other posters (many of whom I would classify as being some of our most-reasoned and well-spoken members) have expressed similar opinions.
One, I do truly believe what I wrote. Two, I'm not sure what "take heed" means (in a practical sense; I understand what you wrote). Where does me "taking heed" come in when I'm the one being called "Mike's blind follower" - or, laughably, a "blind minion" over at MP's site! - even when I don't exactly agree with what he did (or most of his Tweeting for that matter)? How does that lead to me being singled out for my lack of objectivity?
When or not you "believe" what you wrote is irrelevant. Others, including myself, are finding you to be completely unreasonable, and we have respectfully voiced that. So "take heed" in this context means something like saying to yourself something along the lines of, "You know, I personally feel like my position is the best. But Bosk is a reasonable guy, and so are some of the others disagreeing with me, so maybe I should take a step back and reevaluate. Maybe I'm wrong. And even if I'm not, it's probably in everyone's best interest if I back off and acknowledge that they strongly feel differently than I do and might be just as right as I am, and maybe even more so." Because you are really coming across as if you think "being right" is a zero sum gain, and you can't possibly make any concessions without being branded the "loser" in this debate. And that somewhat surprises me, because you at times harp on that very thing--that people should make concessions and realize that discussions opinions should NOT be a zero sum gain type of exercise.
Second, even though I shouldn't even have to go there, I'm going to briefly address the "Mike's blind follower" comment that you cannot seem to let go of.
1. I looked at both posts, and NEITHER of them were aimed at you.
2. In context, both of them appear to be aimed, not necessarily at MP fans, despite being inartfully worded that way. They are clearly aimed at those who are frustrated primarily at Mike for making such comments, and only secondarily by those who won't acknowledge ANY fault on MP's account which is a tiny, tiny subset of MP fans--not all of them. Now, if that shoe fits, then wear it. If not, then acknowledge that it wasn't even directed at you. It's kind of like some fans getting bent out of shape over the lyrics of Never Enough and insisting that Mike was unreasonable for lashing out at any fan who dares criticize him. Those fans obviously don't know or choose to ignore that, in context, those lyrics are pointed at a VERY specific small subset of "fans" that were involved in some very nasty borderline stalking and harassment of Mike, and that they have nothing to do with the fanbase as a whole. Again, if people are in that group because they are behaving badly, they have no room to criticize. And if they don't belong to that group, the song isn't aimed at them, so there is nothing to complain about as far as the song is concerned. Same with the "blind" MP fans. If you fit that group, yeah, you should be called out for it. If you don't, quit whining because you aren't the one the comments were addressed to.
3. Yeah, admittedly, "blind followers" is poorly worded. But see points 1 and 2.
So, to bring it back around, whether you "believe what you wrote" or not, I and others feel you are way off base. If you can't acknowledge that, sorry, but that's on you.
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Kindness.
It's not that hard.
Justice but do not judge
Courtesy for others' flaws
Kindness, it's not that hard
Self-restraint of tongue and pen....and online media
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I wonder if MP has any fans who are actually blind. If so, it's a good thing they can't read what we're saying about them.
Also, despite me not being a big fan of what MP says, I'm still pretty pumped about his new releases.
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Oh Mike :lol ::)
First of all, I think he is very well aware that this forum is the main forum of his ex-band. And no matter what he says, DT is and will always be a touchy subject for him. His lack of professionalism in that regard has made it quite apparent over the years, despite him being leveled at times as well. I also think he in fact does look at this forum and I think it is pretty clear he isn't very good at taking criticism. All those elements combined probably led to that post trying to paint DTF as a whole as irrelevant and baised. He actually sound like a jealous ex, which fits into his famed marriage analogies.
I love the guy and all, and a lot of people have unreasonable thoughts about things related to touchy personal matters every now and then. But he really should know better at this point. Overall, on the degrees of shittyness of things that celebs and musicians pull off, this ranks extremely low in my book, but people are in the right to take offense out of this. Especially those who have made this community to what it is and have supported DT and Mike by extension for decades.
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Kindness.
It's not that hard.
This guy Mladen doesn't post very much. But when he does, he's typically right. :tup
;)
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Mike was last active in 2014 which was 3 years after the Thiago incident, and 7 years after the split. What was so negative that we were discussing in 2014?
EDIT: and why is thing in parenthesis? He has a forum too.
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When it comes to the blind followers thing, instead of directing it at the fans, I would turn it around and say that blind followers is what Mike Portnoy wants. He doesn't want fans; he wants blind followers.
In his mind, DTF is an extension of dt.net, which he hated and had shut down eventually, so in his mind, they are one and the same.
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What Thiago incident?
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What Thiago incident?
Thiago is the guitarist of the VRA Dream Theater split screen covers on YouTube and back before ADTOE came out, in fact, a week before, Thiago having dounloaded the leak made song comparisons with IaW (most of them are true, damnit) to which Portnoy agreed and proceeded to trash the band over it. Thiago eventually got banned from DTF.
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What Thiago incident?
Thiago is the guitarist of the VRA Dream Theater split screen covers on YouTube and back before ADTOE came out, in fact, a week before, Thiago having dounloaded the leak made song comparisons with IaW (most of them are true, damnit) to which Portnoy agreed and proceeded to trash the band over it.
Yes, but to provide a bit more detail as relevant to the forums here: Thiago Torres posted his whole thesis on the similarities between ADTOE and I&W prior to the release of ADTOE. In and of itself, that was fine. But there were two problems:
1. It was a LOT of detail before the official release.
2. He was VERY aggressive in his opinions, came across like a jerk, and was going too far in more or less insisting that ADTOE was just a rip-off of I&W.
I told him he needed to dial it back, and to hold off on the detail a bit, because posting so much detail in such a negative way before the album was out and people could form their own conclusions wasn't cool and wasn't fair to the band. He wouldn't back off and just became combative, so he was banned.
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When it comes to the blind followers thing, instead of directing it at the fans, I would turn it around and say that blind followers is what Mike Portnoy wants. He doesn't want fans; he wants blind followers.
Well that's hard to argue with Kev, well said.
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MP's problem with DTF is probably that he can't censor what's said here.
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What Thiago incident?
Thiago is the guitarist of the VRA Dream Theater split screen covers on YouTube and back before ADTOE came out, in fact, a week before, Thiago having dounloaded the leak made song comparisons with IaW (most of them are true, damnit) to which Portnoy agreed and proceeded to trash the band over it.
Oh, now I remember that. I wasn´t in the forum then, but that made the news in metal sites in Brazil, where Thiago and I are from.
The last time I remember Portnoy being in DTF was at the start of the tour in 2013, when the setlist was being announced as they played in Portugal.
Yes, but to provide a bit more detail as relevant to the forums here: Thiago Torres posted his whole thesis on the similarities between ADTOE and I&W prior to the release of ADTOE. In and of itself, that was fine. But there were two problems:
1. It was a LOT of detail before the official release.
2. He was VERY aggressive in his opinions, came across like a jerk, and was going too far in more or less insisting that ADTOE was just a rip-off of I&W.
I told him he needed to dial it back, and to hold off on the detail a bit, because posting so much detail in such a negative way before the album was out and people could form their own conclusions wasn't cool and wasn't fair to the band. He wouldn't back off and just became combative, so he was banned.
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MP's problem with DTF is probably that he can't censor what's said here.
On that note, does anyone know what happened to the 'Just Thinkin' thread over at MP???...was one of my favorite to lurk on.
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What Thiago incident?
Thiago is the guitarist of the VRA Dream Theater split screen covers on YouTube and back before ADTOE came out, in fact, a week before, Thiago having dounloaded the leak made song comparisons with IaW (most of them are true, damnit) to which Portnoy agreed and proceeded to trash the band over it.
Yes, but to provide a bit more detail as relevant to the forums here: Thiago Torres posted his whole thesis on the similarities between ADTOE and I&W prior to the release of ADTOE. In and of itself, that was fine. But there were two problems:
1. It was a LOT of detail before the official release.
2. He was VERY aggressive in his opinions, came across like a jerk, and was going too far in more or less insisting that ADTOE was just a rip-off of I&W.
I told him he needed to dial it back, and to hold off on the detail a bit, because posting so much detail in such a negative way before the album was out and people could form their own conclusions wasn't cool and wasn't fair to the band. He wouldn't back off and just became combative, so he was banned.
Oh, now I remember that. I wasn´t in the forum then, but that made the news in metal sites in Brazil, where Thiago and I are from.
The last time I remember Portnoy being in DTF was at the start of the tour in 2013, when the setlist was being announced as they played in Portugal.
Oh, I didn't know it was "international news." :lol It was a bummer the way it went down, honestly. I thought Thiago made a lot of good points and had a lot of great insight. It was just the timing and manner of his delivery that were a problem. And he didn't get that and became combative about it. Unfortunately, he and others apparently have misunderstood what happened and have wrongly said that he was banned for comparing ADTOE to I&W, so people can't talk about that comparison here. That isn't the case at all. People can talk about that all they want. That wasn't the problem.
Anyhow, if there is anything anyone else feels the need to add on this issue, that's fine, but let's try to get the discussion back onto Mike and Sons of Appollo.
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My last point on this is that in Thiago's defense, the hardest thing to learn in a second language is how to convey your tone. With that said, you mentioned that you spoke to him about how his approach was wrong and he refused to back off, so I'd say that banning him in this case was the right thing to do.
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MP's problem with DTF is probably that he can't censor what's said here.
On that note, does anyone know what happened to the 'Just Thinkin' thread over at MP???...was one of my favorite to lurk on.
I think there was just one too many personal attacks (tame/inoffensive as they were) and the mods got tired of 300+ pages of it. That was a good thread though
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Oh Mike :lol ::)
First of all, I think he is very well aware that this forum is the main forum of his ex-band. And no matter what he says, DT is and will always be a touchy subject for him. His lack of professionalism in that regard has made it quite apparent over the years, despite him being leveled at times as well. I also think he in fact does look at this forum and I think it is pretty clear he isn't very good at taking criticism. All those elements combined probably led to that post trying to paint DTF as a whole as irrelevant and baised. He actually sound like a jealous ex, which fits into his famed marriage analogies.
I love the guy and all, and a lot of people have unreasonable thoughts about things related to touchy personal matters every now and then. But he really should know better at this point. Overall, on the degrees of shittyness of things that celebs and musicians pull off, this ranks extremely low in my book, but people are in the right to take offense out of this. Especially those who have made this community to what it is and have supported DT and Mike by extension for decades.
Interesting about the marriage analogy, if I didn't know that MP quit DT that after reading all of his comments and retweets since 2010, you would think he was fired. I am guessing, and I guess I am a troll for thinking this, is that he didn't quit so much as did a failed bluff.
Anyhow. Yes, Sons of Apollo should be a very good album and I am sure with all the interviews and social media should make 2017-2018 a very interesting year. :)
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I just don't think the opinion that the two sides are "Mike is an irrational uncontrollable fool with a Twitter account" and "Mike's blind followers" is fair or accurate.
Well, good, because hardly anyone said anything that approaches this descriptions. And for those few that did, the context in which those comments were made casts them in a very different light than how you are casting them. If you truly believe that I possess at least some measure of "grace, intelligence and maturity" in the way I moderate this forum, I would suggest that maybe you take a bit more heed of my opinion of your posting in this thread. Especially when there are so many other posters (many of whom I would classify as being some of our most-reasoned and well-spoken members) have expressed similar opinions.
One, I do truly believe what I wrote. Two, I'm not sure what "take heed" means (in a practical sense; I understand what you wrote). Where does me "taking heed" come in when I'm the one being called "Mike's blind follower" - or, laughably, a "blind minion" over at MP's site! - even when I don't exactly agree with what he did (or most of his Tweeting for that matter)? How does that lead to me being singled out for my lack of objectivity?
When or not you "believe" what you wrote is irrelevant. Others, including myself, are finding you to be completely unreasonable, and we have respectfully voiced that. So "take heed" in this context means something like saying to yourself something along the lines of, "You know, I personally feel like my position is the best. But Bosk is a reasonable guy, and so are some of the others disagreeing with me, so maybe I should take a step back and reevaluate. Maybe I'm wrong. And even if I'm not, it's probably in everyone's best interest if I back off and acknowledge that they strongly feel differently than I do and might be just as right as I am, and maybe even more so." Because you are really coming across as if you think "being right" is a zero sum gain, and you can't possibly make any concessions without being branded the "loser" in this debate. And that somewhat surprises me, because you at times harp on that very thing--that people should make concessions and realize that discussions opinions should NOT be a zero sum gain type of exercise.
One, the "I believe what I wrote" was directly about my comments re: the modding here. Nothing more.
Two, I'm really lost on the rest. I AGREE WITH YOU on the post. How is that a "zero sum game"? How is that "being right" (or if it is, I'm saying YOU'RE right too).
My only beef here is the necessity to proactively refer to "Mike's blind followers", as if there is only the "reasonable people who see this for what it is - internet trolling and childish immature behavior" and "blindness".
Which leads to...
Second, even though I shouldn't even have to go there, I'm going to briefly address the "Mike's blind follower" comment that you cannot seem to let go of.
1. I looked at both posts, and NEITHER of them were aimed at you.
2. In context, both of them appear to be aimed, not necessarily at MP fans, despite being inartfully worded that way. They are clearly aimed at those who are frustrated primarily at Mike for making such comments, and only secondarily by those who won't acknowledge ANY fault on MP's account which is a tiny, tiny subset of MP fans--not all of them. Now, if that shoe fits, then wear it. If not, then acknowledge that it wasn't even directed at you.
It most certainly included me, if not aimed at me. I'm the only one who stuck up for him during the last go-round - a couple weeks ago - and was called the same then. On MP's forum, someone named "Xanadu373", who clearly posts here as well, said - and this is a direct quote - "What all this boils down to is that you have a lot of fans there [DTF] (however not blind minions (with the exception of Stadler)),...".
As for owning it, I own what I am. I admit my foibles (I've copped to being a Kiss apologist on more than one occasion). I also, though, know that I blindly follow NO ONE, and there is little here that can give anyone the impression that I am naïve.
Again, if people are in that group because they are behaving badly, they have no room to criticize. And if they don't belong to that group, the song isn't aimed at them, so there is nothing to complain about as far as the song is concerned. Same with the "blind" MP fans. If you fit that group, yeah, you should be called out for it. If you don't, quit whining because you aren't the one the comments were addressed to.
3. Yeah, admittedly, "blind followers" is poorly worded. But see points 1 and 2.
So, given that Chinese menu (haha, I kid), what do I do when I KNOW I was part of the group that the comments were addressed to, and I don't believe a) I'm part of it, or b) that the assessment is entirely fair? Your analysis is meaningful, but not complete.
EDIT: I didn't read Bosk's last post to "take it back on topic" before I posted this. Sorry.
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I am guessing, and I guess I am a troll for thinking this, is that he didn't quit so much as did a failed bluff.
I don't think you are a troll at all for having that take. From everything I have read and heard from both sides (and the key details between both "sides" are pretty consistent), I think it's a bit of both. Literally, he did "quit" the band. But to just say that he "quit" is too simplistic and in and of itself paints an inaccurate picture. He had a position that he felt VERY strongly about--so strongly that, although he revised his position and compromised significantly, he rightly or wrongly felt that it wasn't healthy for him to bend past a certain point. Maybe that was because he truly had his AND the band's best interests at heart. Maybe it was because, at minimum, he wanted to do some more work with A7X in the mean time. Maybe both. I have no idea and don't want to make assumptions. At the end of the day, none of us knows his motives and shouldn't try to pretend like we do. But no matter what his motives, that is how he felt. The band felt otherwise. Maybe they were right; maybe not. But each "side" wanted to go a direction that was inconsistent with the other side, so they were at an impasse. They were going to move on and go into the studio, and weren't going to "fire" him. He felt he couldn't go in that direction, so the only thing he could do was "quit." So, yeah, he "quit." But at the same time, it's more nuanced than that.
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So, can't wait for the record!
2018 tour being planned should be fun too. I wonder if Portnoy will be recording everything like he used to with DT?
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I am guessing, and I guess I am a troll for thinking this, is that he didn't quit so much as did a failed bluff.
I don't think you are a troll at all for having that take. From everything I have read and heard from both sides (and the key details between both "sides" are pretty consistent), I think it's a bit of both. Literally, he did "quit" the band. But to just say that he "quit" is too simplistic and in and of itself paints an inaccurate picture. He had a position that he felt VERY strongly about--so strongly that, although he revised his position and compromised significantly, he rightly or wrongly felt that it wasn't healthy for him to bend past a certain point. Maybe that was because he truly had his AND the band's best interests at heart. Maybe it was because, at minimum, he wanted to do some more work with A7X in the mean time. Maybe both. I have no idea and don't want to make assumptions. At the end of the day, none of us knows his motives and shouldn't try to pretend like we do. But no matter what his motives, that is how he felt. The band felt otherwise. Maybe they were right; maybe not. But each "side" wanted to go a direction that was inconsistent with the other side, so they were at an impasse. They were going to move on and go into the studio, and weren't going to "fire" him. He felt he couldn't go in that direction, so the only thing he could do was "quit." So, yeah, he "quit." But at the same time, it's more nuanced than that.
And regardless of where it falls, with "nuance" comes human emotion. I never in a million years would have guessed that my ex-wife would lie to me and cheat on me, but she did. And while that's on her, much of the context and scenario for her to do so is on me and is at least partly my responsibility, but that doesn't make it hurt any less.
Sons of Apollo: we're already talking tour in 2018; what size venues do you think this means? The Neal Morse Band is playing Friday (tomorrow) at the same place I saw The Winery Dogs last year (500 seats). They're playing the Keswick Saturday, which is about three times that, about 1,300. DT played the Oakdale on The Astonishing tour (4,800), a place DT played at least nine times (and the last four times they were in CT).
Where do you think I'll be able to see SoA?
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I am guessing, and I guess I am a troll for thinking this, is that he didn't quit so much as did a failed bluff.
I don't think you are a troll at all for having that take. From everything I have read and heard from both sides (and the key details between both "sides" are pretty consistent), I think it's a bit of both. Literally, he did "quit" the band. But to just say that he "quit" is too simplistic and in and of itself paints an inaccurate picture. He had a position that he felt VERY strongly about--so strongly that, although he revised his position and compromised significantly, he rightly or wrongly felt that it wasn't healthy for him to bend past a certain point. Maybe that was because he truly had his AND the band's best interests at heart. Maybe it was because, at minimum, he wanted to do some more work with A7X in the mean time. Maybe both. I have no idea and don't want to make assumptions. At the end of the day, none of us knows his motives and shouldn't try to pretend like we do. But no matter what his motives, that is how he felt. The band felt otherwise. Maybe they were right; maybe not. But each "side" wanted to go a direction that was inconsistent with the other side, so they were at an impasse. They were going to move on and go into the studio, and weren't going to "fire" him. He felt he couldn't go in that direction, so the only thing he could do was "quit." So, yeah, he "quit." But at the same time, it's more nuanced than that.
And regardless of where it falls, with "nuance" comes human emotion. I never in a million years would have guessed that my ex-wife would lie to me and cheat on me, but she did. And while that's on her, much of the context and scenario for her to do so is on me and is at least partly my responsibility, but that doesn't make it hurt any less.
Sons of Apollo: we're already talking tour in 2018; what size venues do you think this means? The Neal Morse Band is playing Friday (tomorrow) at the same place I saw The Winery Dogs last year (500 seats). They're playing the Keswick Saturday, which is about three times that, about 1,300. DT played the Oakdale on The Astonishing tour (4,800), a place DT played at least nine times (and the last four times they were in CT).
Where do you think I'll be able to see SoA?
Ok, to go off the topic that is already off topic, Stadler, I am really sorry to hear that.
Sons of Apollo: Probably the same types of Venues as Winery Dogs and Neal Morse. Although Neal Morse has been around for a while, going back to Spock's Beard so he may have a larger following than this band.
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Where do you think I'll be able to see SoA?
In NYC, my guess is the same or similar to where MP's Shattered Fortress is playing, Irving Plaza (1k capacity) or maybe where Neal Morse Band is playing, Gramercy Theater (500 capacity).
To compare, DT would play Hammerstein Ballroom (2.2k) and Beacon Theater (2.8k) or RCMH (6k) in NYC.
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I got super lost in the pages long discussion of MP's post.
Are there tour dates announced or are we just prepping for the eventual ones?
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Where do you think I'll be able to see SoA?
In NYC, my guess is the same or similar to where MP's Shattered Fortress is playing, Irving Plaza (1k capacity) or maybe where Neal Morse Band is playing, Gramercy Theater (500 capacity).
To compare, DT would play Hammerstein Ballroom (2.2k) and Beacon Theater (2.8k) or RCMH (6k) in NYC.
Pretty much spot-on in my opinion. They won't be in large venues to start. And I would guess in other areas (such as San Fran) the capacities will be 250-400. They may move as time goes on. I actually think that's awesome, because to see all of these guys, who have played (and still do play) for thousands, to be one of like 200 people in a room, and up close, that's pretty bad ass (unless Portnoy still spits...in that case, maybe a few rows back is better - lololol)
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Are there tour dates announced or are we just prepping for the eventual ones?
No dates yet, just speculation about where they might play.
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Are there tour dates announced or are we just prepping for the eventual ones?
No dates yet, just speculation about where they might play.
Oh gotcha. If they come to LA (which I'm sure they will) before I move, I will definitely be there to see them.
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I'll deal with this first, even though it is out of order:
EDIT: I didn't read Bosk's last post to "take it back on topic" before I posted this. Sorry.
No, that was in reference more to the Thiago issue. I mean, this discussion is off on a bit of a tangent. But it started with the MP comment, which arose from the questions related to Sons of Appollo. So while I think we need to eventually get back to Sons of Appollo more directly, this was tangentially relevant, and I think there is still a bit of "unfinished business" on this subtopic, so it's fine.
One, the "I believe what I wrote" was directly about my comments re: the modding here. Nothing more.
Oh, okay. That wasn't clear to me.
"Mike's blind followers"...
It most certainly included me, if not aimed at me. I'm the only one who stuck up for him during the last go-round - a couple weeks ago - and was called the same then. On MP's forum, someone named "Xanadu373", who clearly posts here as well, said - and this is a direct quote - "What all this boils down to is that you have a lot of fans there [DTF] (however not blind minions (with the exception of Stadler)),...".
...
So, given that Chinese menu (haha, I kid), what do I do when I KNOW I was part of the group that the comments were addressed to, and I don't believe a) I'm part of it, or b) that the assessment is entirely fair? Your analysis is meaningful, but not complete.
Okay, a couple of things:
First off, you aren't the only one to have defended Mike in the discussions on this forum. Not remotely. Some of the defense has come across as reasonable. Some of it has not and, IMO, does come across as simply "blind" fanboyism. And that isn't because they were standing up for Mike. Standing up for Mike, when warranted, is just as valid as standing up for anything else one believes in, when warranted. It's just that, as happens with a lot of issues on a forum, sometimes, people just take positions that come across as ill-informed. Again, this is NOT necessarily aimed at you. I am saying that there are OTHERS who have come across that way.
Second, I wasn't aware that someone specifically called you out on MP's forum with that same comment. I still don't think that, if you look at the context in which the comments were made HERE, that those specific comments applied to you at all. But given the other comments, I can see why it struck a nerve with you. I get it. But still, you are overreacting and personalizing it too much, IMO. It was such a minor comment made in passing. Nobody has followed up or doubled down on it and said, "No, Stadler, YOU are a mindless MP fan!" Just let it go.
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Are there tour dates announced or are we just prepping for the eventual ones?
No dates yet, just speculation about where they might play.
Oh gotcha. If they come to LA (which I'm sure they will) before I move, I will definitely be there to see them.
I think if they will play in LA, they will probably play in Roxy Theater or Whisky a-go-go as a start compared that to DT where they are currently playing in Wiltern Theater (about 1,600 people) or the City National Grove of Anaheim (similar size in capacity) if they play in Anaheim.
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Come to think of it, is there any other band forum which is as diverse, well-organized and has as much activity as DTF? It's a genuine question, I'm really not familiar with other forums. With the GMD, GD, TV&Movies, P/R, I'm really impressed with DTF.
MP's forum one the other hand - I registered there a couple of years ago with the intention to contribute and participate, but my very first post, which was completely benign (someone said that no MP discussion was allowed on DTF at all, and that they should be thankful that Mike allows a single DT thread on his forum, so I linked to 3 threads from here which focused on MP) immediately got the moderator ax. Dry facts are deemed unacceptable at that place. I never looked back since. My only disappointing experience with DTF was when Rumbo said something about evolution in a science thread (something about roe and pregnant women), which offended a deeply religious member, and Rumbo's original post got subsequently removed.
Edit: oh, and also, banning chaossystem WAS a big MISTAKE as WELL. :lol
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Come to think of it, is there any other band forum which is as diverse, well-organized and has as much activity as DTF? It's a genuine question, I'm really not familiar with other forums. With the GMD, GD, TV&Movies, P/R, I'm really impressed with DTF.
I have yet to see one.
Like was said earlier, Portnoy won't find another music forum that talks this much about Sons of Apollo. I browse at another music forum now (huge forum, but not band-specific) and there has been zero chatter about this band. This forum is basically a huge advertisement for Sons of Apollo (or ANY project he does).
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Come to think of it, is there any other band forum which is as diverse, well-organized and has as much activity as DTF? It's a genuine question, I'm really not familiar with other forums. With the GMD, GD, TV&Movies, P/R, I'm really impressed with DTF.
I have yet to see one.
Like was said earlier, Portnoy won't find another music forum that talks this much about Sons of Apollo. I browse at another music forum now (huge forum, but not band-specific) and there has been zero chatter about this band. This forum is basically a huge advertisement for Sons of Apollo (or ANY project he does).
Bingo on both accounts. DTF is a great place and very diverse. Most certainly not a "bubble" and that's why this is an amazing place on the internet. The mods do a great job here of letting free speech happen while maintaining respect for all bands (and other members), including SoA (and MP) who have most certainly gained a lot of attention (mostly positive) here.
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Kev nailing it on the head again. Kev, Mike is going on with the NMB in a few. Want me to talk to him? :lol
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Kev nailing it on the head again. Kev, Mike is going on with the NMB in a few. Want me to talk to him? :lol
have him sign something but wear a DTF T shirt
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Kev nailing it on the head again. Kev, Mike is going on with the NMB in a few. Want me to talk to him? :lol
Just shout "DTF RULES!" during a quiet moment of the show. :lol
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:lol
He'd kill me with a drum stick!
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Come to think of it, is there any other band forum which is as diverse, well-organized and has as much activity as DTF? It's a genuine question, I'm really not familiar with other forums. With the GMD, GD, TV&Movies, P/R, I'm really impressed with DTF.
I have yet to see one.
Like was said earlier, Portnoy won't find another music forum that talks this much about Sons of Apollo. I browse at another music forum now (huge forum, but not band-specific) and there has been zero chatter about this band. This forum is basically a huge advertisement for Sons of Apollo (or ANY project he does).
You're over at Hoffman?
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:lol
He'd kill me with a drum stick!
Take one for the team!
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:lol
He'd kill me with a drum stick!
Bring your glove.
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I am still trying to figure out what someone's cheating wife has to do with Mike Portnoy and his slamming me just because I'm on DTF because his forum basically dried up :huh:
I will see Dream Theater this November in Baltimore. I would see The Shattered Fortress in NYC, but my stepdaughter and son-in-law are moving back to Maryland that same weekend (after being in Toronto and New Mexico).
Portnoy made DT concerts enjoyable for us. His stick skills blew us away. But when I've seen DT since his departure, the band looks so much more relaxed, and MM is quite the nice dude (somewhat talented as well).
I have a pic or two of me and the wife with Jeff Scott Soto from years ago at a Queen convention.
So, please, Michael P., relax, eh?
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IDontNotDoThings, you nailed it 100%. Stadler, as someone who more often than not (not always, but more often than not) backs you in P/R for your reasoning, you have not displayed that same reasoning and objectivity in this thread. You are completely off base on this. Criticism of Mike's specific statement and/or actions (or anyone else's, for that matter), whether well-taken or not, are allowed as long as they do not become personal shots at his character. Those that cross the line are called out by the mod/admin team and promptly dealt with. But constructive criticism is and has always been allowed, provided it is constructive and tactful. Not everyone has the same ability frame things in a way that comes across as constructive or tactful, so there will always be borderline posts on a LOT of different topics here that may come across as a bit more harsh than what someone subjectively believes should be posted. But that is VERY hard to regulate, and I typically err on the side of letting people talk and hash it out rather than me stepping in every time I think something toes the line. I say all that to say that, yeah, the site isn't perfect. But it is a far, FAR cry from being the bash-fest that you are implying it is. It isn't and never has been anything close to that. You really aren't being objective here.
I don't see even one - not ONE - reference to a position that isn't completely negative against Mike that isn't labeled something prejudicial like "Mike's blind followers". Why was that necessary? Where is even ONE POST that says something like "well, I can see both sides of this, but..." or "wow, I understand Mike might have hard emotions about this site, but...".
I stuck up for him on the last go round and it was BRUTAL.
The last go round was brutal. And it seems to be getting worse. I think as time goes by, people are less connected to MP. I know I am. Sons Of Apollo is the first thing I'm actually interested in, and it's been what, 7 years now?
But a lot of us here have been around for a long time and are not only big DT fans, but we're also big MP fans. He's a great musician, and as a fan, he was really a treat to follow while in DT with all the extras, etc...
I've always said that DT was my favorite band for many reasons, but Reason #1 was MP. Watching him perform, and the way he took care of the fans. That's why when he left it was such a blow. I was going to lose that.
I think a lot of people have moved past "disappointed" with his social media posts to "annoyed" with them as time and the connections drift away.
But I've also said that there's a fine line between criticism and being outright rude. I can't say there's aren't posts that are on the wrong side of it.
But MP insulting DTF is shooting himself in the foot. I've probably spent well over $1000 on DT between 1992 and 2010. I've been on DTF since 2004, and even joined the old board when SFAM came out.
I'm DTF and I'm insulted.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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(...) He also can't seem to grasp that this site is full of MP fans, including the guy that run it (i.e., me). And that's a bummer for him because he's turning people off rather than taking advantage of the fact that this site could be used as another means to better promote all of his projects. (...)"
This is just what I wanted to say. Well, it's easy to get lost in thie thread. I'm not attending on MP's forum so I don't know what's going on out there, but I wanted to say that Mike really could take some advantage of DTF. As Bosk mentioned, there are tons of his and DT fans out here and personally I never would say that some kind of trolling is happening here. Maybe I wasn't so active member in particular years, but I logged here for the first time something around 2009, so I feel a part of DTF community. Am I proud of it, people from here remembered me when I was not active through some years and it just make me feel that I'm not alone ;) And I'm always very grateful about it. Anyway, whatever MP says or writes, will not change the fact that I was, and I probably will be DT and MP fan. Music is music, comments are comments and I just try not to connect these two with each other. It would be just too painful for me not to listen to DT with MP or MP projects after leaving DT because of His negative approach.
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I personally think the biggest issue with the comment is how broad it was. I feel like if he specifically talked out his issues with those of us who he felt were being negative trolls who "live in a bubble & are worse the Blabbermouth", maybe he would actually change some of our minds instead of confirming the exact things we accuse him of.
Or not, idk :dunno:
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I am still trying to figure out what someone's cheating wife has to do with Mike Portnoy and his slamming me just because I'm on DTF because his forum basically dried up :huh:
My point was simply, the idea that "HE LEFT! HIS FAULT!" isn't a magic eraser that negates any subsequent human emotions he might have. Life is imperfect, and human history is LITTERED with people that perhaps are contributory in their current position but have emotions that are overwhelming or difficult to just ignore. We can't see the future. We can't guarantee that we can understand and assimilate any emotion that will come along. We're allowed to regret, rue or rethink our actions. Not suggesting that Mike has done any of that, but I think it is reasonable to consider those elements. (Certainly as reasonable as assuming that for the first time in the 200,000 years of human existence that people are black and white, cut and dry, and as simple as some want it to be. Not referring to anyone in particular, just a general - and meant as humorous and lighthearted - comment.)
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While that is very true to use your analogy maybe if he wasn't cheating so must (playing in so many other side projects) he wouldn't have soured on his first love, DT. Sometimes you have to look inward.
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1320 posts in this thread.
15,270 posts on the forum since this thread was created.
People can say what they want, but MP is right. Over 10% of the total activity at this forum right now is people who can't stop talking about Mike Portnoy.
If you don't like him IGNORE HIM.
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And however he feels does not ,to me at least, justify him talking trash about his former wife and common friends in public.
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1320 posts in this thread.
15,270 posts on the forum since this thread was created.
People can say what they want, but MP is right. Over 10% of the total activity at this forum right now is people who can't stop talking about Mike Portnoy.
If you don't like him IGNORE HIM.
wut. We are talking ~8% with those numbers. But what does that have to do with anything?
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1320 posts in this thread.
15,270 posts on the forum since this thread was created.
People can say what they want, but MP is right. Over 10% of the total activity at this forum right now is people who can't stop talking about Mike Portnoy.
If you don't like him IGNORE HIM.
wut. We are talking ~8% with those numbers. But what does that have to do with anything?
I thonk you forgot to count some threads... Neal Morse Band has action in it at least :-)
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1320 posts in this thread.
15,270 posts on the forum since this thread was created.
People can say what they want, but MP is right. Over 10% of the total activity at this forum right now is people who can't stop talking about Mike Portnoy.
If you don't like him IGNORE HIM.
wut. We are talking ~8% with those numbers. But what does that have to do with anything?
Yeah, what Swedish Goose said, I'd say it's over 10% when you count all the MP fixation that occurs in other threads and the other MP related threads, but this travesty alone already rounds up to 9%.
It's relevant because people here are saying they are "deeply hurt" that MP has made one general comment on this community that was not so positive, but the truth is, people here simply can not stop talking about Mike, a musician apparently nobody cares about anymore.
I don't know about you, but I have better ways to spend my day that constantly fixating on people whose music no longer interests me.
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I dont know, I think most people discussing MP are fans on some level. Im sure some just discuss to give their negative view, but I think that's a very big minority here.
I think the only reason there is any discussion is because we are fans of his music
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Now I think you are being dramatic Skeever. Don't you think that it would all settle down if Mike would let it go. You know, his anger?
I dont know, I think most people discussing MP are fans on some level. Im sure some just discuss to give their negative view, but I think that's a very big minority here.
I think the only reason there is any discussion is because we are fans of his music
Yup. I will always follow his music. We can still be disappointing that he still slings mud at DT when it's well known he forced his way out.
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I don't know about anyone else but I am very much a fan of Mike Portnoy the artist. Seen him live twice this year. Neal Morse Band and Shattered Fortress. What I am less of a fan of is his activity on social media.
To continue the divorce analogy I am an always was a good friend of both him and his wife. Now he talks trash about his wife and about me.... how do you think that feels? Still love the man enough to not let those remarks hurt our relationship too much but I do wish he would learn to keep quiet on such occasions.
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While that is very true to use your analogy maybe if he wasn't cheating so must (playing in so many other side projects) he wouldn't have soured on his first love, DT. Sometimes you have to look inward.
I don't at all disagree, and my position here notwithstanding, I believe that has to be the FIRST place you look.
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Yup. That's what gets people riled up and continue to sound like we hate him. Far from the truth. I'm just disappointed he hasn't moved on. If he was kicked out I'd get the anger this many years later.
While that is very true to use your analogy maybe if he wasn't cheating so must (playing in so many other side projects) he wouldn't have soured on his first love, DT. Sometimes you have to look inward.
I don't at all disagree, and my position here notwithstanding, I believe that has to be the FIRST place you look.
Yup. hey, I saw him last night and he ruled! What a great show. BTW, Tick is going to the Conn show. Send him a PM.
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oh god not more divorce analogies :lol
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oh god not more divorce analogies :lol
I like my cheating analogy better. :lol
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a situation so truly complex and mindbending that it can only be understood through the lens of babies, divorce, and cheating
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Now I think you are being dramatic Skeever. Don't you think that it would all settle down if Mike would let it go. You know, his anger?
Serious, respectful comment: do you honestly believe that? Do you honestly believe that ALL of this is simply a reaction to some ridiculous (or whatever word you want to use here, but in any case, not positive) action on Mike's part? He's a working musician who was in a band for 25 years, a band that he was not a hired gun in. We're torturing the marriage analogy here, but if you use the premise that it was at least somewhat nuanced between "I have to leave" and "I don't want to leave", it can't be easy watching your ex-wife not only remarry, but also go to the same places you did when you were married (the current tour) and do the same things you did when you were married (A Change of Seasons). As ridiculous as it might sound, when I was freshly divorced, there was a bar I frequented in Hartford, a bar I used to go to when in law school. I knew a bartender there, and it was a "safe place". One weekend I walk in, take my usual spot, and there across the way is the ex-wife with her new boyfriend/soon-to-be-fiancé/soon-to-be-new-husband. And my friend came over and was like "Why?" (as well as "Do you want me to spit in her drink?" kiddingly.) Later I was talking with my ex about my daughter and she says "by the way, those people are assholes at [Bar]". And I said to her, "but what did you expect?" There are a hundred bars in the Hartford area, and you have to go to the one that is a relative safe haven for me? It's a free country, do what you want, but you have to at least account for some human emotion to interject itself.
Point is, and always was here, that we are not in the situation. We don't have the emotions, we don't have the necessary knowledge to know what the hot buttons are, and so it is my opinion that we are not in a good position to judge. I do however, respect those that have a position that doesn't agree with this one. I don't think alternative positions to mine are "unreasonable" or "blind" or anything like that. To me it's interesting discussing human psychology. We're fascinating creatures.
Yup. I will always follow his music. We can still be disappointing that he still slings mud at DT when it's well known he forced his way out.
Fair point, but you have to respect those that don't consider "he forced himself out" as the be-all and end-all fact. It's a part of it that can't be denied, no doubt, but it doesn't trump all the other things, and it doesn't negate any emotions that may arise after the fact.
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Now I think you are being dramatic Skeever. Don't you think that it would all settle down if Mike would let it go. You know, his anger?
Serious, respectful comment: do you honestly believe that? Do you honestly believe that ALL of this is simply a reaction to some ridiculous (or whatever word you want to use here, but in any case, not positive) action on Mike's part?
I can't speak for King. But from my perspective: For the most part, yes. Pretty much the ONLY time you see negativity posted here about Mike is when he says something he shouldn't. Otherwise, it's almost entirely praise. Yes, there are exceptions. But those are rare and far in between. Although it is human nature to take "sides," and some people definitely do in situations like this, a lot of people on this site are fans of Mike Portnoy. When he is playing music or doing the types of positive fan relations things that made us fans in the first place, there really isn't anything negative said.
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Yes I do. I've been on here a long time and none of this discussion comes up unless Mike says something on social medial that's disparaging to DT or this forum then the discussion comes back up. Sure there are people that go way overboard taking it personal. They are too invested. Most see Mike who left, and he did leave not letting go and wishing he would. He's got so much more going on that's so damn positive right now in his life.
Edit: Bosk1 beat me to it. Well said sir.
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This thread kind of proves why MP was right to wait several years post split to assemble a prog-metal band. Unfortunately these kinds
of discussions/comments will continue as SOA moves forward...it's basically unavoidable. But at least ample time has passed that
both camps (and fans of both camps) should be able to manage things better now verses 4 or 5 years ago. I'm excited for the music
and that's all I can add to the discussion.
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How dare they not want to take a break, and how dare they continue touring cities that ensure financial success. Whatever analogy you want to use, it's still no excuse for MP's behavior toward Dream Theater the past 7 years.
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Jeez are we still talking about this? SoA need to release some more music.
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Jeez are we still talking about this? SoA need to release some more music.
This. I could hear some new music in Introduction pt1 interview. It very promising, You can hear some real different moods there, calm and twisted at once. I think it's gonna be a very good album. And, Signs Of Times is a grower, especially vocals. JSS really fits there, but I like that kind od vocals so I understand why some of us have different opinion ;)
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This thread kind of proves why MP was right to wait several years post split to assemble a prog-metal band. Unfortunately these kinds
of discussions/comments will continue as SOA moves forward...it's basically unavoidable. But at least ample time has passed that
both camps (and fans of both camps) should be able to manage things better now verses 4 or 5 years ago. I'm excited for the music
and that's all I can add to the discussion.
These discussions happened as recently as TSOAD, and as far back as Flying Colors. I don't think it necessarily proves anything one way or another but that's just me. I'm excited for the music too. I just hope the rest of the album has more memorable lyrics and vocal melodies. So far the soloing is great and they got groove but I like my metal with strong melodies.
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How dare they not want to take a break, and how dare they continue touring cities that ensure financial success. Whatever analogy you want to use, it's still no excuse for MP's behavior toward Dream Theater the past 7 years.
Which is a fair position to take, but recognize that not everyone sees things so black and white. It's not unreasonable to see that as their favorite band - a band that used to be fan-friendly, that used to tailor setlists to cities, and issue things based on fan desire rather than monetary gain, and who used to be a family of sorts, respecting each member when it came to group decisions - morphing into a machine that was now about the almighty money, putting dollars and cents ahead of the needs/wants of their members (here, a core member). Now, that may or may not then excuse MP's behavior, but it's certainly another way of looking at things.
All reasonable conclusions that have to be respected.
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In retrospect I think a short-ish break probably would have done them some good tbqh.
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Jeez are we still talking about this? SoA need to release some more music.
Good point we need more music from them. Although I am afraid they will release a new track and Derek or Mike will retweet some comment like "DT should retire, THIS is how prog should be done. #DT sux since MP and DS left"
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In retrospect I think a short-ish break probably would have done them some good tbqh.
Meh, I don't know. I think the band needed a break from MP's control over the DT sound. MP leaving was the equivalent of a 5 year break. It's clear now that MP had a ton of creative juice flowing and they weren't for DT. It wasn't fair to the other 4 guys to take 5 years off so MP could sow his wild oats so to speak. Either way, it all worked out in the end.
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How dare they not want to take a break, and how dare they continue touring cities that ensure financial success. Whatever analogy you want to use, it's still no excuse for MP's behavior toward Dream Theater the past 7 years.
Which is a fair position to take, but recognize that not everyone sees things so black and white. It's not unreasonable to see that as their favorite band - a band that used to be fan-friendly, that used to tailor setlists to cities, and issue things based on fan desire rather than monetary gain, and who used to be a family of sorts, respecting each member when it came to group decisions - morphing into a machine that was now about the almighty money, putting dollars and cents ahead of the needs/wants of their members (here, a core member). Now, that may or may not then excuse MP's behavior, but it's certainly another way of looking at things.
All reasonable conclusions that have to be respected.
I'm sure they aren't anywhere near hurting for cash, but to stop the flow of income completely would not be a smart move. Hell, even Metallica said they pretty much have to tour. That's probably a bit of an exaggeration, because they're freakin' Metallica, but rich or poor, these people have to have some sort of income to survive. Money runs out eventually, and considering that Mike wanted a break mostly because he wanted to be the new drummer of Avenged Sevenfold (I know the circumstances, but that's still what he wanted), a very popular, money making band, it's unfair to ask the other guys to put their lives on hold so he can try new things while making more money doing it. Sure they could do side projects, but how much money is gained from side projects? Unfortunately, in the end, it is all about money, but I don't think for a second they stopped caring about their fans. Not everyone is the same. Mike worked himself to death for us, but that was his choice. He didn't have to, and I'm grateful he went through such efforts to bring us joy, but to expect the same from the other guys is both selfish and entitled. The bottom line is Mike chose to leave the band. He didn't get what he wanted, so he left. The other guys probably knew exactly why he wanted a break, and thought it was unfair. He said he was burnt out on Dream Theater, and if that's the case then he needs to leave. Besides, after however long the break would have been, playing in all these other bands, I'm pretty sure that inspirational corner would be in full force, and we'd have another mediocre offering like the two before he left. Sure, the next 3 weren't amazing, but it was nice not hearing any rips off (save for Looking Glass har har) or more forced tough guy vocals.
I miss Portnoy. I prefer him to Mangini, but that doesn't mean he gets a free pass to say whatever he wants, and I'm not going to make excuses for him. The situation sucks, and it's clear he hasn't moved on, and is hurt, but if we're going to keep using marriage analogies, talking trash about DT in front of the kids is a shitting thing to do, and now he's trashing a portion of the fanbase when he clearly has no idea what he's talking about because he hasn't been here in 3 years.
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Okay, you said your piece on that. But now let's PLEASE get it back on topic, because the DT split is a tangent from the tangent of Mike's comments and doesn't really need to be rehashed here. So let's leave it at that, please.
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<Removed after I saw Bosk's post.>
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Okay, you said your piece on that. But now let's PLEASE get it back on topic, because the DT split is a tangent from the tangent of Mike's comments and doesn't really need to be rehashed here. So let's leave it at that, please.
YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!
I'll wait til the album drops to give my thoughts then. The single didn't get me excited though.
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So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.
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I'm going to do an email interview of Derek in a few days. So if you have something to ask him directly, I'll try and ask him.
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I'm going to do an email interview of Derek in a few days. So if you have something to ask him directly, I'll try and ask him.
Who would he like to work with that he hasn't yet?
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He agreed to do a no filtered interview so your question is next ;)
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I'm going to do an email interview of Derek in a few days. So if you have something to ask him directly, I'll try and ask him.
Since he has worked closely with both guys... Who does he think would win in an Arm Wrestling match. Zakk Wylde or John Petrucci.
I am dead serious
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I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).
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He agreed to do a no filtered interview so your question is next ;)
Does he have any resentment towards MP for firing him from DT?
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What do the plans for the immediate future of the band look like? Specifically (although there may be other relevant questions that could be asked, depending on what he says):
-Is this truly planned to be a full-time band for all the guys?
-Is there a tour planned? What timeframe? Where are they planning on going?
-Are they envisioning this being their primary band for all of them, meaning they plan to try to do album/tour cycles as regularly as possible for the near future, or is this more to be "just one more project" in addition to the other things they are all involved with?
-Is it more of a "wait-and-see" approach, depending on how things go once the album is released and a bit of touring is done?
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I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).
I'd be curious to hear the answer as well (although he will probably somewhat dodge the question so as not to give the tour away). Part of me feels that they will not because (1) Mike said in connection with TSF that he would not play DT anymore outside of that (I don't necessarily expect him to hold to that forever); and (2) With 5 guys involved in so many projects, where do you draw the line in terms of how much "outside" material you play? But the other part of me feels they will because (1) it is such a big part of Mike's and Derek's past, and (2) That's just the kind of thing Mike does on tours; with Flying Colors, for example, they did songs from the guys' other bands. So I dunno.
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So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.
Yes, I would be on Next to None opening. I don't blame him, it's great he is trying to help his son out.
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So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.
'SOA' is the abbreviation for 'STD' in my language.
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So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.
'SOA' is the abbreviation for 'STD' in my language.
:rollin
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I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).
I'd be curious to hear the answer as well (although he will probably somewhat dodge the question so as not to give the tour away). Part of me feels that they will not because (1) Mike said in connection with TSF that he would not play DT anymore outside of that (I don't necessarily expect him to hold to that forever); and (2) With 5 guys involved in so many projects, where do you draw the line in terms of how much "outside" material you play? But the other part of me feels they will because (1) it is such a big part of Mike's and Derek's past, and (2) That's just the kind of thing Mike does on tours; with Flying Colors, for example, they did songs from the guys' other bands. So I dunno.
I think there is no doubt they will cover DT songs. I don't recall him saying he wont play DT songs anymore or just a whole show of DT. If he did he can just say he wasn't planning on it but he is doing it "for the fans"
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I don't know much about the legitimacy about Mike's drama toward DT or anything.
What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.
Now, I don't know much about divorce either. Hopefully I'll never have to, but I do know people who are divorced. I know that with MP and DT, lawyers are involved. I know that I've read much time passed where direct communication didn't happen, however lawyers still did their thing.
What I'm saying is, it's a lot easier for people in a group, who go the "winning" end of a stick, to let their lawyer rebuke comments or things like that, and to do all the talking through their lawyer than it is for the lone guy, who when he speaks, has to be rebuked by, his former friends ( current friends ?), lawyers.
I dunno if Mike gets "out of line". I dunno if I'd consider it that. But I don't know the extent of the types of communications that's been had, lawyers and people speaking through lawyers have habits of taking their own kind of jabs. There may be more there, or maybe what we all know is all that there is to know ( though I doubt it )
It's hard for me to read a comment Mike may have made that one may consider to be low, or a dig, or disrespectful and not think "Ya know, I don't know the whole story, and I never will"
Either way, even if the dude kept his trap shut, which would be sad considering his personality and why most of us who love the guy, love the guy, I have a hard time thinking many people's reactions would have been much different. It's human nature to take sides. Which, is also, mostly a good thing.
I so far love the SOA, and I think he was smart for waiting, though I think it's sad him waiting is considered to be the smart move.
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I don't know much about the legitimacy about Mike's drama toward DT or anything.
What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.
Now, I don't know much about divorce either. Hopefully I'll never have to, but I do know people who are divorced. I know that with MP and DT, lawyers are involved. I know that I've read much time passed where direct communication didn't happen, however lawyers still did their thing.
What I'm saying is, it's a lot easier for people in a group, who go the "winning" end of a stick, to let their lawyer rebuke comments or things like that, and to do all the talking through their lawyer than it is for the lone guy, who when he speaks, has to be rebuked by, his former friends ( current friends ?), lawyers.
I dunno if Mike gets "out of line". I dunno if I'd consider it that. But I don't know the extent of the types of communications that's been had, lawyers and people speaking through lawyers have habits of taking their own kind of jabs. There may be more there, or maybe what we all know is all that there is to know ( though I doubt it )
It's hard for me to read a comment Mike may have made that one may consider to be low, or a dig, or disrespectful and not think "Ya know, I don't know the whole story, and I never will"
Either way, even if the dude kept his trap shut, which would be sad considering his personality and why most of us who love the guy, love the guy, I have a hard time thinking many people's reactions would have been much different. It's human nature to take sides. Which, is also, mostly a good thing.
I so far love the SOA, and I think he was smart for waiting, though I think it's sad him waiting is considered to be the smart move.
While I don't agree with your reasoning or mindset, that is a very good, well-tempered, and non-confrontational way of expressing that opinion.
-hug-
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I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).
Could you slip in to do a Queen cover of Innuendo or some other song from them? Jeff did a Queen convention (see youtube), and really sounded good and looked like he was really enjoying himself.
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I don't know much about the legitimacy about Mike's drama toward DT or anything.
What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.
Now, I don't know much about divorce either. Hopefully I'll never have to, but I do know people who are divorced. I know that with MP and DT, lawyers are involved. I know that I've read much time passed where direct communication didn't happen, however lawyers still did their thing.
What I'm saying is, it's a lot easier for people in a group, who go the "winning" end of a stick, to let their lawyer rebuke comments or things like that, and to do all the talking through their lawyer than it is for the lone guy, who when he speaks, has to be rebuked by, his former friends ( current friends ?), lawyers.
I dunno if Mike gets "out of line". I dunno if I'd consider it that. But I don't know the extent of the types of communications that's been had, lawyers and people speaking through lawyers have habits of taking their own kind of jabs. There may be more there, or maybe what we all know is all that there is to know ( though I doubt it )
It's hard for me to read a comment Mike may have made that one may consider to be low, or a dig, or disrespectful and not think "Ya know, I don't know the whole story, and I never will"
Either way, even if the dude kept his trap shut, which would be sad considering his personality and why most of us who love the guy, love the guy, I have a hard time thinking many people's reactions would have been much different. It's human nature to take sides. Which, is also, mostly a good thing.
I so far love the SOA, and I think he was smart for waiting, though I think it's sad him waiting is considered to be the smart move.
While I don't agree with your reasoning or mindset, that is a very good, well-tempered, and non-confrontational way of expressing that opinion.
-hug-
:lol Love the quote from.
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So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.
'SOA' is the abbreviation for 'STD' in my language.
someone said that to Derek on his FB, he asked what it meant so i answered, since the OP didn't reply. His reponse: "Meh"
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So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.
Yes, I would be on Next to None opening. I don't blame him, it's great he is trying to help his son out.
Yeah, I could care less. I'm past the point in my life where I care about the opening acts. I may check them out in advance and show up early enough if I like them, but otherwise, I'm usually content to show up way after the fact these days.
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-Is there a tour planned?
They will tour, Mike confirmed it after the TSF show in Paris.
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So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.
Yes, I would be on Next to None opening. I don't blame him, it's great he is trying to help his son out.
Yeah, I could care less. I'm past the point in my life where I care about the opening acts. I may check them out in advance and show up early enough if I like them, but otherwise, I'm usually content to show up way after the fact these days.
I'd just love to hear some obscure prog band which I've never heard of open. Just for my own personal exposure. :lol
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So no disrespect to Next To None, but the fact that we can almost expect them to open for SOA when they tour NA is really disappointing.
Yes, I would be on Next to None opening. I don't blame him, it's great he is trying to help his son out.
Yeah, I could care less. I'm past the point in my life where I care about the opening acts. I may check them out in advance and show up early enough if I like them, but otherwise, I'm usually content to show up way after the fact these days.
I am with you, however I think Apollo will most likely play places where it is GA and would have to go there early to get a good spot. I truly doubt I am going to the show anyhow based on the 1st song. It's not bad, just not enough to get me out. Even this DT tour with Images and Words. I love DT but since seeing them since 1995 I feel like I have seen them play those songs so many times. For that reason, I loved the Astonishing show. ALL new material.
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Jeez are we still talking about this? SoA need to release some more music.
Perhaps that was our secret plan all along *evil laughter*
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I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).
I'd be curious to hear the answer as well (although he will probably somewhat dodge the question so as not to give the tour away). Part of me feels that they will not because (1) Mike said in connection with TSF that he would not play DT anymore outside of that (I don't necessarily expect him to hold to that forever); and (2) With 5 guys involved in so many projects, where do you draw the line in terms of how much "outside" material you play? But the other part of me feels they will because (1) it is such a big part of Mike's and Derek's past, and (2) That's just the kind of thing Mike does on tours; with Flying Colors, for example, they did songs from the guys' other bands. So I dunno.
I think there is no doubt they will cover DT songs. I don't recall him saying he wont play DT songs anymore or just a whole show of DT. If he did he can just say he wasn't planning on it but he is doing it "for the fans"
I think he hinted that they will play falling into Infinity songs. The no more DT Rule was more in regards to not playing any Dream Theater exclusive shows.
I do have a question for Derek about that though. Will they consider playing a slower number like Anna Lee?
You don't need to add this post commentary to the question but even though I'm not planning on seeing the band or really supporting it in anyway unless the next couple tracks released are really outstanding, if I hear they're playing Anna Lee in the set I will probably drive 3 hours to see them.
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I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).
I'd be curious to hear the answer as well (although he will probably somewhat dodge the question so as not to give the tour away). Part of me feels that they will not because (1) Mike said in connection with TSF that he would not play DT anymore outside of that (I don't necessarily expect him to hold to that forever); and (2) With 5 guys involved in so many projects, where do you draw the line in terms of how much "outside" material you play? But the other part of me feels they will because (1) it is such a big part of Mike's and Derek's past, and (2) That's just the kind of thing Mike does on tours; with Flying Colors, for example, they did songs from the guys' other bands. So I dunno.
I think there is no doubt they will cover DT songs. I don't recall him saying he wont play DT songs anymore or just a whole show of DT. If he did he can just say he wasn't planning on it but he is doing it "for the fans"
I think he hinted that they will play falling into Infinity songs. The no more DT Rule was more in regards to not playing any Dream Theater exclusive shows.
I do have a question for Derek about that though. Will they consider playing a slower number like Anna Lee?
You don't need to add this post commentary to the question but even though I'm not planning on seeing the band or really supporting it in anyway unless the next couple tracks released are really outstanding, if I hear they're playing Anna Lee in the set I will probably drive 3 hours to see them.
I think they played it with PSMS on Prog Nation at sea IIRC, so it's possible. I don't think JSS has the vocal range to do it, though.
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I think that Soto would be awesome on Lines in the Sand.
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I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).
I'd be curious to hear the answer as well (although he will probably somewhat dodge the question so as not to give the tour away). Part of me feels that they will not because (1) Mike said in connection with TSF that he would not play DT anymore outside of that (I don't necessarily expect him to hold to that forever); and (2) With 5 guys involved in so many projects, where do you draw the line in terms of how much "outside" material you play? But the other part of me feels they will because (1) it is such a big part of Mike's and Derek's past, and (2) That's just the kind of thing Mike does on tours; with Flying Colors, for example, they did songs from the guys' other bands. So I dunno.
I think there is no doubt they will cover DT songs. I don't recall him saying he wont play DT songs anymore or just a whole show of DT. If he did he can just say he wasn't planning on it but he is doing it "for the fans"
I think he hinted that they will play falling into Infinity songs. The no more DT Rule was more in regards to not playing any Dream Theater exclusive shows.
I do have a question for Derek about that though. Will they consider playing a slower number like Anna Lee?
You don't need to add this post commentary to the question but even though I'm not planning on seeing the band or really supporting it in anyway unless the next couple tracks released are really outstanding, if I hear they're playing Anna Lee in the set I will probably drive 3 hours to see them.
I think they played it with PSMS on Prog Nation at sea IIRC, so it's possible. I don't think JSS has the vocal range to do it, though.
Oh yeah I forgot about that. I was not a fan of that vocalist. Maybe you're right that JSS doesnt have the range but I bet he could still give a better performance than that other guy.
I also forgot about the amazing performance of Burning My Soul with Devin Townsend that ad libbed through the whole song and admitted he never really learned it.
My favorite part was this verse. Here's the transcription:
I say it's green
Then you sir, say it's red
Wait...what the next line
Keep your thoughts and ideas locked in your head you dick!
We've got someone who can sing for me instead, thank god
And he sounds just like James LaBrie!
You can watch here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxKKI233rHE
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I'm planning to ask him if they have an idea of the tracks played live and if they will include covers (of course we all want to know if they're going to play some DT, I'm convinced they will not but who knows...).
I'd be curious to hear the answer as well (although he will probably somewhat dodge the question so as not to give the tour away). Part of me feels that they will not because (1) Mike said in connection with TSF that he would not play DT anymore outside of that (I don't necessarily expect him to hold to that forever); and (2) With 5 guys involved in so many projects, where do you draw the line in terms of how much "outside" material you play? But the other part of me feels they will because (1) it is such a big part of Mike's and Derek's past, and (2) That's just the kind of thing Mike does on tours; with Flying Colors, for example, they did songs from the guys' other bands. So I dunno.
I think there is no doubt they will cover DT songs. I don't recall him saying he wont play DT songs anymore or just a whole show of DT. If he did he can just say he wasn't planning on it but he is doing it "for the fans"
I think he hinted that they will play falling into Infinity songs. The no more DT Rule was more in regards to not playing any Dream Theater exclusive shows.
I do have a question for Derek about that though. Will they consider playing a slower number like Anna Lee?
You don't need to add this post commentary to the question but even though I'm not planning on seeing the band or really supporting it in anyway unless the next couple tracks released are really outstanding, if I hear they're playing Anna Lee in the set I will probably drive 3 hours to see them.
Bumblefoot's fretless neck would sound great for the Anna Lee solo.
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Bumblefoot's fretless neck would sound great for the Anna Lee solo.
Didn't think of that. Wow, that would be great to hear.
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Bumblefoot's fretless neck would sound great for the Anna Lee solo.
Didn't think of that. Wow, that would be great to hear.
:hefdaddy
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Imagine if Dream Theater plays Anna Lee on the American leg of the current tour... :lol :lol
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I'm waiting for the obligatory "I always wanted to play it, but no one else did" tweet. ;D
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Oh yeah I forgot about that. I was not a fan of that vocalist. Maybe you're right that JSS doesnt have the range but I bet he could still give a better performance than that other guy.
I also forgot about the amazing performance of Burning My Soul with Devin Townsend that ad libbed through the whole song and admitted he never really learned it.
My favorite part was this verse. Here's the transcription:
I say it's green
Then you sir, say it's red
Wait...what the next line
Keep your thoughts and ideas locked in your head you dick!
We've got someone who can sing for me instead, thank god
And he sounds just like James LaBrie!
You can watch here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxKKI233rHE
Ha ha this was great ;D Almost too great for me to believe that it wasn't part of the show.
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What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.
What this bullshit philosophy boils down to is "I'll say and do whatever I want and if you don't like it that's *your* problem."
It's easy to be "real" or "wear your heart on your sleeve" or "do what you want" or "just being honest" or "just being myself" and not give a shit about what people think. IT'S EASY AS FUCK to just do what you want whenever you want. It doesn't take "balls" or "bravery". It's EASY to do this and not give a shit.
What *does* take balls is to know when to hold back and when to let it go and when to let everything hang out. What takes REAL bravery and thought is to understand the CONTEXT of what's going on.
Any asshole can say what they want and make claims like they're just being honest and that's just a weak-assed cop-out excuse to behave like a complete douche. It takes a *real* person to know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em.
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Well. That was a judicious self-edit, PetFish. And probably a good idea :lol
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Well. That was a judicious self-edit, PetFish. And probably a good idea :lol
Yeah, as much as I want to really say that I took my own advice and didn't. ::)
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I stuck up for him on the last go round and it was BRUTAL.
Have you considered that not everything he is done is with sticking up for? It's an honest question. Often times it feels like you are doing it partially for the edgy look of going counter to everyone else. I have been very supportive of Mike's music, and have even tried multiple times in threads like Shattered Fortress to pull discussion away from the other crap back to the music. But why, when something like this happens would you go out of your way defend it?
This. Stadler, I usually try to be pretty fair with MP (Nick is extremely fair and mostly positive with MP) but he (MP) basically dismissed and insulted a community you are apart of very directly. Not sure why you are cool with that...?
Do I say I'm "Stadler"? Do I shut my mouth? Is it okay to bring "Images and Words" to be signed?
All I can tell you is, whatever you do don't wear a ADTOE shirt.
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Imagine if Dream Theater plays Anna Lee on the American leg of the current tour... :lol :lol
I've been hoping they'd play it for so long too :lol
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Mike's got a bad attitude, but he's not wrong about the music bubble.
When I click on the music subforum here and see the bands with threads on the first page, I do tend to think to myself "huh... you'd think people stopped making good music 20 years ago"
Well, I don't think that's the case at all. This forum has always had a healthy discussion of current bands and current music. Sure, there are many bands out there that happen to be forum favorites and that also are well-established band with long careers. There are indeed many theads that focus on those bands, I will give you that. Still, I never saw the forum turn a blind eye on more current music (and I've around-- though mainly as lurker-- since 2001 and the days of the old dreamtheater.net forums).
Plus, it's not like MP's own forum is radically different from DTF in that regard (i.e.- musical diversity/keeping up with current trends and styles).
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Mike's got a bad attitude, but he's not wrong about the music bubble.
When I click on the music subforum here and see the bands with threads on the first page, I do tend to think to myself "huh... you'd think people stopped making good music 20 years ago"
Well, I don't think that's the case at all. This forum has always had a healthy discussion of current bands and current music. Sure, there are many bands out there that happen to be forum favorites and that also are well-established band with long careers. There are indeed many theads that focus on those bands, I will give you that. Still, I never saw the forum turn a blind eye on more current music (and I've around-- though mainly as lurker-- since 2001 and the days of the old dreamtheater.net forums).
Plus, it's not like MP's own forum is radically different from DTF in that regard (i.e.- musical diversity/keeping up with current trends and styles).
I concur. I don't think that's the case at all. If you currently look at the first page, alone, we got some pretty good discussions of pretty good acclaimed (by all kinds of rock communities) modern bands like Trivium, Ghost, Mastodon. Also, there are bands like Periphery, Gojira, Alter Bridge, etc. that gets good discussion here. Yeah, DTF is definitely a good place to talk about bands from classics to metal to modern.
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This place is great for this old fart to find new music!
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What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.
What this bullshit philosophy boils down to is "I'll say and do whatever I want and if you don't like it that's *your* problem."
It's easy to be "real" or "wear your heart on your sleeve" or "do what you want" or "just being honest" or "just being myself" and not give a shit about what people think. IT'S EASY AS FUCK to just do what you want whenever you want. It doesn't take "balls" or "bravery". It's EASY to do this and not give a shit.
What *does* take balls is to know when to hold back and when to let it go and when to let everything hang out. What takes REAL bravery and thought is to understand the CONTEXT of what's going on.
Any asshole can say what they want and make claims like they're just being honest and that's just a weak-assed cop-out excuse to behave like a complete douche. It takes a *real* person to know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em.
*claps*
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This place is great for this old fart to find new music!
I agree with this! Half of the bands/artists on the first page of this subforum I've barely heard of.
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What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.
What this bullshit philosophy boils down to is "I'll say and do whatever I want and if you don't like it that's *your* problem."
It's easy to be "real" or "wear your heart on your sleeve" or "do what you want" or "just being honest" or "just being myself" and not give a shit about what people think. IT'S EASY AS FUCK to just do what you want whenever you want. It doesn't take "balls" or "bravery". It's EASY to do this and not give a shit.
What *does* take balls is to know when to hold back and when to let it go and when to let everything hang out. What takes REAL bravery and thought is to understand the CONTEXT of what's going on.
Any asshole can say what they want and make claims like they're just being honest and that's just a weak-assed cop-out excuse to behave like a complete douche. It takes a *real* person to know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em.
*claps*
Bill1971 retweets
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This place is great for this old fart to find new music!
I agree with this! Half of the bands/artists on the first page of this subforum I've barely heard of.
No offense, but the list of the bands on the front page could have existed pretty much as-is in 2005 with few exceptions.
Mike Portnoy (consistently in the top 5)
Rush
Leprous
Steven Wilson
Genesis
Queensryche
Iron Maiden
Neal Morse
Issa
Anathema
Mastodon
Iron Maiden (again)
In Flames
Fates Warning
Arch Enemy
Marillion
Ghost
Pvris
Jelly Jam
Transatlantic
Circus Maximus
Adrenaline Mob
Metallica
Muse
Foo Fighters
Brand New
Savatage
Galactic Cowboys
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Hey, the Issa thread is being misrepresented here. We talk about new bands all the time. Granted, we rip em to bits pretty much, but we talk about them! 😀
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Skeever, you really don't pay attention much. You take one moment on DTF to try and make your point. Besides, the section is a music section. That encompasses all genres and eras.
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What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.
What this bullshit philosophy boils down to is "I'll say and do whatever I want and if you don't like it that's *your* problem."
It's easy to be "real" or "wear your heart on your sleeve" or "do what you want" or "just being honest" or "just being myself" and not give a shit about what people think. IT'S EASY AS FUCK to just do what you want whenever you want. It doesn't take "balls" or "bravery". It's EASY to do this and not give a shit.
What *does* take balls is to know when to hold back and when to let it go and when to let everything hang out. What takes REAL bravery and thought is to understand the CONTEXT of what's going on.
Any asshole can say what they want and make claims like they're just being honest and that's just a weak-assed cop-out excuse to behave like a complete douche. It takes a *real* person to know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em.
99 times out of 100 I'd agree with you; there is nothing that gets under my skin more than people like Eddie Trunk who say "I'm just being honest here, Kiss without the original members sucks." That's not being "honest". There's nothing "honest" in just spewing your opinions. I also bristle at "bravery"; it's not "brave" to say "I think Gene Simmons is a money hungry whore". "Bravery" is walking out of a Higgins boat on June 6, 1944 into five feet of water while 10,000 German soldiers are trying to shoot you with semi-automatic weapons (and, for the most part, succeeding), knowing that the odds of you hitting shore are less than getting a base hit in baseball. But I don't think any of that applies here. I think it's different when you talk about emotions. Your post just slagged anyone who cried at a movie, or something like that. We celebrate raw emotion all the time. Look at all the "raw emotion" that is in the headlines every single day in response to Trump. We're "terrified!". We're "this". We're "that". Art, music, creativity is inherently emotional. (That's why the "work" is not a good analogy; you check your emotions at the door, and don't at your peril, but it's your choice.) Unless you're an Yngwie or Petrucci fan (those are very much jokes; I don't think either one is an "unemotional player") you are into music for the feeling it gives you, not the "factual accuracy" of it.
Again, I wouldn't use "bravery", but it takes a certain courage to put your emotions out there, be it in music, or otherwise, and let them fester in the cold light of day. I didn't do that for the longest time, and I suffered for it. Intellectually, emotionally, even physically. I've been able to incorporate more of that into my life - I call it "living authentically" - and I have a deep respect for people that can do that. It's not an easy thing to do.
I would also say, it's funny how subjective we are when it comes to this. We - well, many of us - love Fish and Steven Wilson when they "put it out there", but when Mike does it? Not so much.
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Hey, the Issa thread is being misrepresented here. We talk about new bands all the time. Granted, we rip em to bits pretty much, but we talk about them! 😀
For those that have seen the Issa thread, but have never actually gone in, this is what it looks like on the inside:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gOo9ADdmLOI/hqdefault.jpg)
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What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.
What this bullshit philosophy boils down to is "I'll say and do whatever I want and if you don't like it that's *your* problem."
It's easy to be "real" or "wear your heart on your sleeve" or "do what you want" or "just being honest" or "just being myself" and not give a shit about what people think. IT'S EASY AS FUCK to just do what you want whenever you want. It doesn't take "balls" or "bravery". It's EASY to do this and not give a shit.
What *does* take balls is to know when to hold back and when to let it go and when to let everything hang out. What takes REAL bravery and thought is to understand the CONTEXT of what's going on.
Any asshole can say what they want and make claims like they're just being honest and that's just a weak-assed cop-out excuse to behave like a complete douche. It takes a *real* person to know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em.
99 times out of 100 I'd agree with you; there is nothing that gets under my skin more than people like Eddie Trunk who say "I'm just being honest here, Kiss without the original members sucks." That's not being "honest". There's nothing "honest" in just spewing your opinions. I also bristle at "bravery"; it's not "brave" to say "I think Gene Simmons is a money hungry whore". "Bravery" is walking out of a Higgins boat on June 6, 1944 into five feet of water while 10,000 German soldiers are trying to shoot you with semi-automatic weapons (and, for the most part, succeeding), knowing that the odds of you hitting shore are less than getting a base hit in baseball. But I don't think any of that applies here. I think it's different when you talk about emotions. Your post just slagged anyone who cried at a movie, or something like that. We celebrate raw emotion all the time. Look at all the "raw emotion" that is in the headlines every single day in response to Trump. We're "terrified!". We're "this". We're "that". Art, music, creativity is inherently emotional. (That's why the "work" is not a good analogy; you check your emotions at the door, and don't at your peril, but it's your choice.) Unless you're an Yngwie or Petrucci fan (those are very much jokes; I don't think either one is an "unemotional player") you are into music for the feeling it gives you, not the "factual accuracy" of it.
Again, I wouldn't use "bravery", but it takes a certain courage to put your emotions out there, be it in music, or otherwise, and let them fester in the cold light of day. I didn't do that for the longest time, and I suffered for it. Intellectually, emotionally, even physically. I've been able to incorporate more of that into my life - I call it "living authentically" - and I have a deep respect for people that can do that. It's not an easy thing to do.
I would also say, it's funny how subjective we are when it comes to this. We - well, many of us - love Fish and Steven Wilson when they "put it out there", but when Mike does it? Not so much.
Do you have examples of people giving Fish or Steven Wilson a pass when they say douchey things?
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This thread is the very reason DTF is still a thing. lols.
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Personally....I think if "The Guitar Lesson" had been covered and recorded by anyone else other than Steven Wilson, people would be burning an effigy. But the music fans tend to ignore things like that from their heroes.
No one is praising him for it...but they do tend to ignore it. That wouldn't be happening if it was someone like Geoff Tate.
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This thread is the very reason DTF is still a thing. lols.
Get out of my silly bubble!
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Personally....I think if "The Guitar Lesson" had been covered and recorded by anyone else other than Steven Wilson, people would be burning an effigy. But the music fans tend to ignore things like that from their heroes.
No one is praising him for it...but they do tend to ignore it. That wouldn't be happening if it was someone like Geoff Tate.
Wait, what? What is wrong with Wilson's cover of The Guitar Lesson? It's an enjoyable little tune.
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Personally....I think if "The Guitar Lesson" had been covered and recorded by anyone else other than Steven Wilson, people would be burning an effigy. But the music fans tend to ignore things like that from their heroes.
No one is praising him for it...but they do tend to ignore it. That wouldn't be happening if it was someone like Geoff Tate.
Wait, what? What is wrong with Wilson's cover of The Guitar Lesson? It's an enjoyable little tune.
IIRC, the lyrics are about a little girl who gets raped by her teacher at a guitar lesson.
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What I do know is that Mike, for good or for bad ( I tend to think more for good ) is himself, always, out on his sleeve in everything he does. I love that quality.
What this bullshit philosophy boils down to is "I'll say and do whatever I want and if you don't like it that's *your* problem."
It's easy to be "real" or "wear your heart on your sleeve" or "do what you want" or "just being honest" or "just being myself" and not give a shit about what people think. IT'S EASY AS FUCK to just do what you want whenever you want. It doesn't take "balls" or "bravery". It's EASY to do this and not give a shit.
What *does* take balls is to know when to hold back and when to let it go and when to let everything hang out. What takes REAL bravery and thought is to understand the CONTEXT of what's going on.
Any asshole can say what they want and make claims like they're just being honest and that's just a weak-assed cop-out excuse to behave like a complete douche. It takes a *real* person to know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em.
99 times out of 100 I'd agree with you; there is nothing that gets under my skin more than people like Eddie Trunk who say "I'm just being honest here, Kiss without the original members sucks." That's not being "honest". There's nothing "honest" in just spewing your opinions. I also bristle at "bravery"; it's not "brave" to say "I think Gene Simmons is a money hungry whore". "Bravery" is walking out of a Higgins boat on June 6, 1944 into five feet of water while 10,000 German soldiers are trying to shoot you with semi-automatic weapons (and, for the most part, succeeding), knowing that the odds of you hitting shore are less than getting a base hit in baseball. But I don't think any of that applies here. I think it's different when you talk about emotions. Your post just slagged anyone who cried at a movie, or something like that. We celebrate raw emotion all the time. Look at all the "raw emotion" that is in the headlines every single day in response to Trump. We're "terrified!". We're "this". We're "that". Art, music, creativity is inherently emotional. (That's why the "work" is not a good analogy; you check your emotions at the door, and don't at your peril, but it's your choice.) Unless you're an Yngwie or Petrucci fan (those are very much jokes; I don't think either one is an "unemotional player") you are into music for the feeling it gives you, not the "factual accuracy" of it.
Again, I wouldn't use "bravery", but it takes a certain courage to put your emotions out there, be it in music, or otherwise, and let them fester in the cold light of day. I didn't do that for the longest time, and I suffered for it. Intellectually, emotionally, even physically. I've been able to incorporate more of that into my life - I call it "living authentically" - and I have a deep respect for people that can do that. It's not an easy thing to do.
I would also say, it's funny how subjective we are when it comes to this. We - well, many of us - love Fish and Steven Wilson when they "put it out there", but when Mike does it? Not so much.
Do you have examples of people giving Fish or Steven Wilson a pass when they say douchey things?
Not Steven Wilson, because I'm not really a huge fan (though I can remember vaguely some flap coming out when he was talking about some of the Crimson remixes, and whether he'd do other bands). But Fish, sure. When he was in Marillion, there are countless examples of him putting his foot in his mouth about other bands, other frontmen... I met him at a bar in Philly before the 13th Star show at the TLA, and he was a total tool. He showed up and while he signed things, he didn't have his merch, and he was talking over people, shuffling them on, even one kid - she was about 8 or so and had her face painted - said something to him about "daddy showed me a picture of your face painted" and he said something like "I don't have time for this please move along". And yet, on the forum, Fish our hero. Nailed his detuned songs to "perfection!" (he didn't; I was there. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't The Theiving Magpie either). At that same show someone took a flash photo, and he stopped the song, pointed out the guy, made the crowd part so he was looking right at Fish and Fish told the crowd "Twat on three... one... two... three! TWAT!" Was that really necessary to embarrass that fan like that? But next day, on the forum, Fish our hero.
There are other examples, mostly from back in the day, since he's cutting a rather low key profile these days, but they're there.
And for the record, that was my kid. I didn't throw him under the bus; I felt bad for her, but I sort of understood because of the logistics of things, but I wasn't going to make apologies for him either. Many others did.
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So, the moral of the story is, another rock musician has acted like a jerk and been given a pass by his fans, so the same courtesy should extend to poor little Mike Portnoy*. Got it.
*which it always is by those of you on TEAM MIKE
Also, I would like to note that, unlike some, I was not offended by his DTF comment, but (to steal a funny comment I saw elsewhere) him asking if something else is "a thing" is ironic concerning he recently toured with Twisted Sister. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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Um, Kev, Twisted Sister is the most interesting gig he's had since leaving DT.
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Someday, I'll be living in a big old city, and all you're ever gonna be is mean. What did Dee Snider ever do to you? :)
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Did this forum even exist "back in the day" of Marillion? Have people even had enough interaction with Fish to be able to have a negative opinion of him? I'm not a fan, so I don't have much to say about him but it is a good possibility that either Fish fans here just haven't had negative experiences with him, or it happened so long ago and he hasn't repeated it that they've forgiven or forgotten.
With MP, I think people do give him a pass in a way, because they still follow him. They still like his work and/or want to like what's coming next. For myself, MP's comments are so disheartening precisely because his music has meant something to me. Let's say it was Fish saying all of these things. I'm not a fan, and I'm only a casual fan of Hogarth-era. So I'd probably shrug, think to myself that Fish was a bit of a jerk, and move on. I didn't care in the first place, so I write him off; no benefit of the doubt. With MP, I continue to hope that one day he'll stop all of this, and that in itself is giving him some benefit of the doubt. I'm not waiting for the next time he says something ridiculous so I can pounce on it; I'm hoping to never see it again.
I was starting to be encouraged recently in fact. He did that two part interview with the guy who sounded a bit like Lars Ulrich, and was pretty gracious. I was happy to see that. He did an interview with Eddie Truck and didn't say anything negative about DT at all. But then it was like Derek picked up the slack, and since this is Mike's band, I wish he would reign Derek in on that. Next was the DTF comment, which as I'm a newbie I wouldn't say it "offends" me, but it certainly doesn't make MP look good, at all. It was childish, to say the least. I get that we all have emotions and completely bottling them up is unhealthy. I would suggest that expressing them via childish outbursts on social media and his forum is also unhealthy. There are many other ways to go about it. He rarely - almost never - apologizes for his outbursts either. If they were a result of him being so full of emotion that he simply couldn't control himself, then he would, perhaps the next day, address it in a calm manner and say he was sorry for what he said.
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Personally....I think if "The Guitar Lesson" had been covered and recorded by anyone else other than Steven Wilson, people would be burning an effigy. But the music fans tend to ignore things like that from their heroes.
No one is praising him for it...but they do tend to ignore it. That wouldn't be happening if it was someone like Geoff Tate.
Wait, what? What is wrong with Wilson's cover of The Guitar Lesson? It's an enjoyable little tune.
IIRC, the lyrics are about a little girl who gets raped by her teacher at a guitar lesson.
Ya....that. Thought that would be more obvious.
EDIT: oh ya...btw....the entire song is sung from the pedophiles POV.
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With MP, I think people do give him a pass in a way, because they still follow him. They still like his work and/or want to like what's coming next. For myself, MP's comments are so disheartening precisely because his music has meant something to me. Let's say it was Fish saying all of these things. I'm not a fan, and I'm only a casual fan of Hogarth-era. So I'd probably shrug, think to myself that Fish was a bit of a jerk, and move on. I didn't care in the first place, so I write him off; no benefit of the doubt. With MP, I continue to hope that one day he'll stop all of this, and that in itself is giving him some benefit of the doubt. I'm not waiting for the next time he says something ridiculous so I can pounce on it; I'm hoping to never see it again.
And I think that's where the accusations of "fan boy-ish" come in. I am invested in his music, but I don't care if he "someday stops all this". Why should I care? I'm not him, he's not me, and he's allowed to do what he wants. Maybe that's where the root of this lies; I'm just a fan - of any of the artists I like - and I get what they give. I don't spend a lot of time "wishing". Ritchie Blackmore is my guy. Fireball (Deep Purple) and Rising (Rainbow) are just... there are no words for me. The Renaissance stuff? Eh. I've seen that twice now, and while Ritchie is awesome, I have a vaguely dirty feeling after, like I just witnessed an orgy or something. Some of those people are... only loosely in touch with reality. But I don't spend even a second thinking "Ritchie has to get back to playing ELECTRIC!" He's happy, he's doing what he wants, and I have the choice to engage to the level I see fit. Same with Kiss. Is it my preference to have Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer there? Well, yes (Eric) and no (Tommy) but it is what it is. I watched Peter utterly embarrass himself during the Aerosmith tour, but I'd rather Ace there, no question. But I don't spend a second "hoping they'll bury the hatchet". Gene and Paul have earned the right to steer the ship the way they choose.
I was starting to be encouraged recently in fact. He did that two part interview with the guy who sounded a bit like Lars Ulrich, and was pretty gracious. I was happy to see that. He did an interview with Eddie Truck and didn't say anything negative about DT at all. But then it was like Derek picked up the slack, and since this is Mike's band, I wish he would reign Derek in on that. Next was the DTF comment, which as I'm a newbie I wouldn't say it "offends" me, but it certainly doesn't make MP look good, at all. It was childish, to say the least. I get that we all have emotions and completely bottling them up is unhealthy. I would suggest that expressing them via childish outbursts on social media and his forum is also unhealthy. There are many other ways to go about it. He rarely - almost never - apologizes for his outbursts either. If they were a result of him being so full of emotion that he simply couldn't control himself, then he would, perhaps the next day, address it in a calm manner and say he was sorry for what he said.
Again, he can do what he wants to do; I'm not at all a fan of the canned "Oh, I had bad Chinese, I'm so sorry!" apologies that celebrities throw around like Tootsie Rolls at a parade. Whether I like what he said or not is immaterial, but there's at least a semblance of credibility for standing by it, emotional or not.
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With MP, I think people do give him a pass in a way, because they still follow him. They still like his work and/or want to like what's coming next. For myself, MP's comments are so disheartening precisely because his music has meant something to me. Let's say it was Fish saying all of these things. I'm not a fan, and I'm only a casual fan of Hogarth-era. So I'd probably shrug, think to myself that Fish was a bit of a jerk, and move on. I didn't care in the first place, so I write him off; no benefit of the doubt. With MP, I continue to hope that one day he'll stop all of this, and that in itself is giving him some benefit of the doubt. I'm not waiting for the next time he says something ridiculous so I can pounce on it; I'm hoping to never see it again.
And I think that's where the accusations of "fan boy-ish" come in. I am invested in his music, but I don't care if he "someday stops all this". Why should I care? I'm not him, he's not me, and he's allowed to do what he wants. Maybe that's where the root of this lies; I'm just a fan - of any of the artists I like - and I get what they give. I don't spend a lot of time "wishing". Ritchie Blackmore is my guy. Fireball (Deep Purple) and Rising (Rainbow) are just... there are no words for me. The Renaissance stuff? Eh. I've seen that twice now, and while Ritchie is awesome, I have a vaguely dirty feeling after, like I just witnessed an orgy or something. Some of those people are... only loosely in touch with reality. But I don't spend even a second thinking "Ritchie has to get back to playing ELECTRIC!" He's happy, he's doing what he wants, and I have the choice to engage to the level I see fit. Same with Kiss. Is it my preference to have Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer there? Well, yes (Eric) and no (Tommy) but it is what it is. I watched Peter utterly embarrass himself during the Aerosmith tour, but I'd rather Ace there, no question. But I don't spend a second "hoping they'll bury the hatchet". Gene and Paul have earned the right to steer the ship the way they choose.
I was starting to be encouraged recently in fact. He did that two part interview with the guy who sounded a bit like Lars Ulrich, and was pretty gracious. I was happy to see that. He did an interview with Eddie Truck and didn't say anything negative about DT at all. But then it was like Derek picked up the slack, and since this is Mike's band, I wish he would reign Derek in on that. Next was the DTF comment, which as I'm a newbie I wouldn't say it "offends" me, but it certainly doesn't make MP look good, at all. It was childish, to say the least. I get that we all have emotions and completely bottling them up is unhealthy. I would suggest that expressing them via childish outbursts on social media and his forum is also unhealthy. There are many other ways to go about it. He rarely - almost never - apologizes for his outbursts either. If they were a result of him being so full of emotion that he simply couldn't control himself, then he would, perhaps the next day, address it in a calm manner and say he was sorry for what he said.
Again, he can do what he wants to do; I'm not at all a fan of the canned "Oh, I had bad Chinese, I'm so sorry!" apologies that celebrities throw around like Tootsie Rolls at a parade. Whether I like what he said or not is immaterial, but there's at least a semblance of credibility for standing by it, emotional or not.
I agree with you on all of this. I am the same way. Which is why I enjoy when bands dont play their popular song, instead playing what they want to play.
What Anathema did on Universal with Fragile Dreams is an example of a band catering to fans because Vincent says " now heres the version you wanted to hear."
MP I have no problem with, hes just a guy that likes to say whats in his mind. Thats just how he is, and being OCD doesn't help either. He made lyrics about ungrateful fans for fuck sakes.
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I think I'm blessed I jumped from page 1 to 41 on this topic.
I have no idea what he said, I don't care and now I don't even know!!
did the music even come out?
I like Derek so...
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^ And as a result, you're probably the smartest person here. :)
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Yeah but he's Canadian it's hard to hit yourself on with a hockey stick to to go to different pages. :lol
Ytse my brother! How are you?
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With MP, I think people do give him a pass in a way, because they still follow him. They still like his work and/or want to like what's coming next. For myself, MP's comments are so disheartening precisely because his music has meant something to me. Let's say it was Fish saying all of these things. I'm not a fan, and I'm only a casual fan of Hogarth-era. So I'd probably shrug, think to myself that Fish was a bit of a jerk, and move on. I didn't care in the first place, so I write him off; no benefit of the doubt. With MP, I continue to hope that one day he'll stop all of this, and that in itself is giving him some benefit of the doubt. I'm not waiting for the next time he says something ridiculous so I can pounce on it; I'm hoping to never see it again.
And I think that's where the accusations of "fan boy-ish" come in. I am invested in his music, but I don't care if he "someday stops all this". Why should I care? I'm not him, he's not me, and he's allowed to do what he wants. Maybe that's where the root of this lies; I'm just a fan - of any of the artists I like - and I get what they give. I don't spend a lot of time "wishing". Ritchie Blackmore is my guy. Fireball (Deep Purple) and Rising (Rainbow) are just... there are no words for me. The Renaissance stuff? Eh. I've seen that twice now, and while Ritchie is awesome, I have a vaguely dirty feeling after, like I just witnessed an orgy or something. Some of those people are... only loosely in touch with reality. But I don't spend even a second thinking "Ritchie has to get back to playing ELECTRIC!" He's happy, he's doing what he wants, and I have the choice to engage to the level I see fit. Same with Kiss. Is it my preference to have Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer there? Well, yes (Eric) and no (Tommy) but it is what it is. I watched Peter utterly embarrass himself during the Aerosmith tour, but I'd rather Ace there, no question. But I don't spend a second "hoping they'll bury the hatchet". Gene and Paul have earned the right to steer the ship the way they choose.
I was starting to be encouraged recently in fact. He did that two part interview with the guy who sounded a bit like Lars Ulrich, and was pretty gracious. I was happy to see that. He did an interview with Eddie Truck and didn't say anything negative about DT at all. But then it was like Derek picked up the slack, and since this is Mike's band, I wish he would reign Derek in on that. Next was the DTF comment, which as I'm a newbie I wouldn't say it "offends" me, but it certainly doesn't make MP look good, at all. It was childish, to say the least. I get that we all have emotions and completely bottling them up is unhealthy. I would suggest that expressing them via childish outbursts on social media and his forum is also unhealthy. There are many other ways to go about it. He rarely - almost never - apologizes for his outbursts either. If they were a result of him being so full of emotion that he simply couldn't control himself, then he would, perhaps the next day, address it in a calm manner and say he was sorry for what he said.
Again, he can do what he wants to do; I'm not at all a fan of the canned "Oh, I had bad Chinese, I'm so sorry!" apologies that celebrities throw around like Tootsie Rolls at a parade. Whether I like what he said or not is immaterial, but there's at least a semblance of credibility for standing by it, emotional or not.
Well, sure, he can do what he wants to do. But should he? There are a lot of reasons you could list for not acting like a jerk and/or a child throwing a temper tantrum. I don't think he should give a "canned" apology, I think he should give a real one. If he doesn't feel he needs to, alright then. As you said, he can do what he wants. As a fan I'm not entitled to have him act with decorum. I'm not entitled to anything other than what I pay for. I understand that. Nonetheless - I can have an opinion about his behavior. He is not entitled to say whatever he wants and have people not talk about it - including objections to what he says.
For you, everything he said might not be cool, but you don't care that much, it's all good. For others, apparently a lot of people here, it's more of a problem, and I think you have to expect that when you're in the public eye and behave the way he does. He seems to not like the negative attention he gets from what he says, and if he doesn't, then I'd suggest he rethink his approach. His online life would be a lot more pleasant. Maybe he truly doesn't care - maybe he just acts like he doesn't want to see this stuff on Blabbermouth, but he really wants to because he thinks it will get his project du jour more attention, and ultimately, sales. That's also his right to do, but if that is the case, I find it even more distasteful. He doesn't have to answer to me or those like me. But he doesn't get to prevent others from reacting to his outbursts with criticism. And - if he wants us to buy his products or even share or "like" his projects and posts on social media to spread the word, then again, maybe he should knock it off.
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I think I'm blessed I jumped from page 1 to 41 on this topic.
I have no idea what he said, I don't care and now I don't even know!!
did the music even come out?
I like Derek so...
^ And as a result, you're probably the smartest person here. :)
Yup
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Personally....I think if "The Guitar Lesson" had been covered and recorded by anyone else other than Steven Wilson, people would be burning an effigy. But the music fans tend to ignore things like that from their heroes.
No one is praising him for it...but they do tend to ignore it. That wouldn't be happening if it was someone like Geoff Tate.
Wait, what? What is wrong with Wilson's cover of The Guitar Lesson? It's an enjoyable little tune.
IIRC, the lyrics are about a little girl who gets raped by her teacher at a guitar lesson.
Ya....that. Thought that would be more obvious.
EDIT: oh ya...btw....the entire song is sung from the pedophiles POV.
Okay. I really never thought about it, but okay. Not sure why people should be burning an effigy. Wilson has often written about disturbing themes (In Absentia is mostly about a serial killer, and Raider II is about the BTK killer), so covering a song with a disturbing theme isn't surprising.
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My only point (and on the topic) is that some people tend to get a pass on things that others wouldn't....just depending on whether we "like" them or not.
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His lyrics isn't supporting them though.
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His lyrics isn't supporting them though.
That was the Slayer excuse for Jihad. (for those that don't know, it was 9/11 from the hijackers POV)
It's like....ya. You say you don't condone it, but you are vicariously taking someone through the experience (set to music) without condemning it either.
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Why do people take a story that is written as lyrics and it becomes their beliefs? Do you hear him in interviews that he enjoys It?
This is where people cross lines and put their own beliefs as interpretation. Let's not make accusations as truths.
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His lyrics isn't supporting them though.
That was the Slayer excuse for Jihad. (for those that don't know, it was 9/11 from the hijackers POV)
It's like....ya. You say you don't condone it, but you are vicariously taking someone through the experience (set to music) without condemning it either.
I wrote an album about heroin addiction without condemning it.
Musicians don't have to tell people what to think. If he writes something PRO whatever, that's different. Telling a very dark and disturbing story is fine. Movies do it all the time.
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But this is exactly what I'm talking about. I never said he condoned it. I'm ONLY saying that he gets a pass because we're fans.
What if that song had been performed by someone else? Someone you detested?
What if Trump decided to start a music career by making this his first single? :rollin
Ok, but seriously. Picture if someone you absolutely detested, and thought was an absolutely VILE human being had released this song. Would you still think exactly the same way?
The topic is....some people get a pass, and some don't. Just depends on if you're a fan or not.
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Um, Trump's actions speak volumes. Steven Wilson's actions speaks musician. Big difference.
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But this is exactly what I'm talking about. I never said he condoned it. I'm ONLY saying that he gets a pass because we're fans.
What if that song had been performed by someone else? Someone you detested?
What if Trump decided to start a music career by making this his first single? :rollin
Ok, but seriously. Picture if someone you absolutely detested, and thought was an absolutely VILE human being had released this song. Would you still think exactly the same way?
The topic is....some people get a pass, and some don't. Just depends on if you're a fan or not.
I'd give anyone a pass for doing a song like that.
I get what you're saying, and your point is good. This example just doesn't work.
SW has been douchey in the past in general and usually gets a pass.
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Daniel Gildenlow releases America, and gets raked over the coals. Slayer releases Jihad and gets a pass.
Even though America crosses a bit more into "opinion", I personally felt Jihad was more tasteless and disrespectful than America was.
America is like someone who once had respect for you, calling you out on your crap and telling you to get your s**t together. Jihad is just more like someone writing about what was going through the serial killers mind when he slaughtered your mom.
But even as I type that, it's an interesting dynamic. Because Daniel was someone who was respected before writing that song.
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America is a crappy song and Daniel is douche.
Still my favorite singer and overall musician.
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As an American I love that song.
You live in Amaerica so you hear only our view of that song. No American will like a song about Jihad.
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Never heard of the Slayer song but isn't that the same band that wrote Angel of Death? That is kind of their thing.
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Daniel Gildenlow releases America, and gets raked over the coals. Slayer releases Jihad and gets a pass.
Very different. That was a period where Gildenlow was very anti-America and anti-Bush. He couldn't tour there for ages because he refused to give fingerprints I think it was. So then the song appeared, which was actually from the perspective of the character, but people took it as Gildenlow expressing his own views, and felt like he was being a prick about it.
Personally I thought that was unfair, but I understand where it came from.
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His lyrics isn't supporting them though.
That was the Slayer excuse for Jihad. (for those that don't know, it was 9/11 from the hijackers POV)
It's like....ya. You say you don't condone it, but you are vicariously taking someone through the experience (set to music) without condemning it either.
This was what people said when they wrote Angel of Death. To paraphrase Jeff Hanneman: "We didn't say the actions were bad because we felt we shouldn't have to".
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ooU-10FzBQA/V9PI3TEDkfI/AAAAAAAAVCU/rtzImt5rpTI4PN6MaQ896MvWVwpKK330wCLcB/s1600/young-thug-the-beatles.jpg)
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Here is our exclusive interview of Derek Sherinian. Enjoy!
https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/08/29/interview-in-english-derek-sherinian/
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Sons Of Apollo is going to generate ten times the heat that any of the other projects/bands that we are in, all other projects will quietly go by the wayside and put on « hiatus ».
This is a bold statement by Derek. I can't imagine Sons Of Apollo to generate more "heat" in terms of money than Mr. Big. And I can't imagine Mike putting the Neal Morse Band and Flying Colours on hiatus, although Neal Morse would probably carry on without him one way or the other.
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I used almost everything on the new SOA record. There is a lot of ballsy B3, and I really dug into my array of analog synths, experimenting running through different amps. This gives the synthesizer some balls and blends great with the guitars never sounding like cheese. All my sounds are very organic, and played in real time. I do not use MIDI, sequencing, apps, or any gadgetry.
(https://www.loopinsight.com/wp-content/uploads/jordan-ipad-1024x768-w-bg.jpg)
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The instrumental is « Opus Maximus ». This song is a 10 minute beast that covers a lot of ground, and bombastically closes the record.
It's interesting that they chose to close the album with an instrumental, that's not a very common thing to do.
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Thanks for including my question!
Interesting interview. The only project I see of being at risk is Winery Dogs since this contains two of their members. Flying colors and neal morse have such short tour cycles and I don't see Mike walking away from Neal Morse Band.
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ooU-10FzBQA/V9PI3TEDkfI/AAAAAAAAVCU/rtzImt5rpTI4PN6MaQ896MvWVwpKK330wCLcB/s1600/young-thug-the-beatles.jpg)
This is funny. "Possibly pro-cancer". Hahaha.
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Sons Of Apollo is going to generate ten times the heat that any of the other projects/bands that we are in, all other projects will quietly go by the wayside and put on « hiatus ».
This is a bold statement by Derek. I can't imagine Sons Of Apollo to generate more "heat" in terms of money than Mr. Big. And I can't imagine Mike putting the Neal Morse Band and Flying Colours on hiatus, although Neal Morse would probably carry on without him one way or the other.
But you have to read that entire interview. He's a bombastic guy. ALL the answers are over the top in that way. "I imprint my DNA on each and every song". "I have every keyboard ever hanging on my wall". He's a hoot, and I think you have to take the actual words in the spirit in which they are intended. Interviewing Derek is not like interviewing, say, Joe Satriani, who is a rather introspective soul. Interviewing Derek is more like interviewing Gene Simmons.
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Thanks for including my question!
Interesting interview. The only project I see of being at risk is Winery Dogs since this contains two of their members. Flying colors and neal morse have such short tour cycles and I don't see Mike walking away from Neal Morse Band.
Well, I think TWD is pretty much contingent on Richie getting the urge to play in a group project as opposed to doing solo stuff. I think that's the main reason TWD is on something of a hiatus at the moment anyway.
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Thanks for including my question!
Interesting interview. The only project I see of being at risk is Winery Dogs since this contains two of their members. Flying colors and neal morse have such short tour cycles and I don't see Mike walking away from Neal Morse Band.
After what I saw Friday night, ANYTHING that jeopardizes the Neal Morse/Mike Portnoy creative collaboration is by definition a bad thing for me.
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Here is our exclusive interview of Derek Sherinian. Enjoy!
https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/08/29/interview-in-english-derek-sherinian/
Nice interview. Really am looking forward to this release.
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Thanks for including my question!
Interesting interview. The only project I see of being at risk is Winery Dogs since this contains two of their members. Flying colors and neal morse have such short tour cycles and I don't see Mike walking away from Neal Morse Band.
After what I saw Friday night, ANYTHING that jeopardizes the Neal Morse/Mike Portnoy creative collaboration is by definition a bad thing for me.
I had the same thought, lol. Seeing that band front row center and being at most 3 feet from Neal was an awe inspiring experience and one that I'll probably never get the chance to see again.
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Here is our exclusive interview of Derek Sherinian. Enjoy!
https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/08/29/interview-in-english-derek-sherinian/
Nice interview. Really am looking forward to this release.
I am guardedly optimistic about it. I liked the first song, so that's a good sign. But definitely in "wait and see" mode. Can't judge it until I've heard it.
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Thanks for including my question!
Interesting interview. The only project I see of being at risk is Winery Dogs since this contains two of their members. Flying colors and neal morse have such short tour cycles and I don't see Mike walking away from Neal Morse Band.
After what I saw Friday night, ANYTHING that jeopardizes the Neal Morse/Mike Portnoy creative collaboration is by definition a bad thing for me.
I had the same thought, lol. Seeing that band front row center and being at most 3 feet from Neal was an awe inspiring experience and one that I'll probably never get the chance to see again.
It's funny; I've been lucky enough to be front and center for a number of shows. Rush, U2, Keith Urban, ELP, The Winery Dogs... and there was something about that show, something about NEAL, that was magnetic. I've been around charismatic people before, and I even met Neal before the show and didn't really get that vibe... but on stage it was something different. I can't really put it into words well.
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Yeah, I felt that same way when I saw him with Transatlantic on the Whirlwind tour. And, to a degree, I think that even comes across on the live DVD's as well. There's just something about him when he is in performer mode that is transcendent.
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Here is our exclusive interview of Derek Sherinian. Enjoy!
https://blog.yourmajesty.net/2017/08/29/interview-in-english-derek-sherinian/
Can I share this link with the MP forum since this is coming from the hive of scum and villainy website?
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To be fair, he only said DTF is a hive of scum and villainy ;D
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To be fair, he only said DTF is a hive of scum and villainy ;D
Oh yes, good point. The person who did this interview is from a French DT site, I was thinking he was from this site. It gets confusing sometimes. :) Am I a troll when I post here and ok when I post in MP.com.
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Since he has worked closely with both guys... Who does he think would win in an Arm Wrestling match. Zakk Wylde or John Petrucci.
I am dead serious
He answered the question and later sent me this pic :
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21150000_2056123501283091_4516126898708892672_n.jpg?oh=d41fa02798d213687e19fd066094a91d&oe=5A58EEB3)
@bill1971 : Yes you can, Sons of Apollo shared it. To be fair, the interview was conducted by me so I'm both from the French fan club and from DTF and some questions were from the members of that forum (JayOctavarium and bosk1).
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Derek said: "I have no desire to play Anna Lee again."
:'(
Thanks for including my question!
Interesting interview. The only project I see of being at risk is Winery Dogs since this contains two of their members. Flying colors and neal morse have such short tour cycles and I don't see Mike walking away from Neal Morse Band.
Well, I think TWD is pretty much contingent on Richie getting the urge to play in a group project as opposed to doing solo stuff. I think that's the main reason TWD is on something of a hiatus at the moment anyway.
Yeah I get the feeling that Richie has no desire to. I remember Mike tweeting something about only trusting your family right around the time the last tour wrapped up. Far be it from Mike to be cryptic but my first thought was, "Well did the Winery Dogs breakup?"
Later Richie made statements indicating he was done and then did damage control by giving a cryptic statement about being sure they would play with each other again. Since then he's gone back to saying, "I wasn't planning on getting married with the Winery Dogs." Not looking good.
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You used my question!
:heart
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Since then [Richie] has gone back to saying, "I wasn't planning on getting married with the Winery Dogs." Not looking good.
Oh, that's a shame. Do you have a source at all? I'd like to read it in context.
I found the first TWD album to be light years ahead of the second but I'd look forward to any new material from them one day, regardless.
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My answers to all of your comments:
@KevShmev: when I wrote the article, I wanted to insert a comment in parentheses reading: In you face Jordan ;)
@kaos2900 and JayOctavarium: you're welcome, but don't thank me, I had a small amount of time to prepare the interview with just two hours to listen to BCCIV so I took every possible question that I could take.
@Stadler and @Kwyjibo: I totally agree with Stadler, I've learnt to know Derek and he is very emphatic. Remember, he is the one who said: "Making history". All of his tweets and statements are reallly over the top and should not be taken at face value.
@bill1971: thanks a lot, I'm really looking forward to interviewing him IRL with Mike in two weeks (if everything goes according to plan).
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The final song and epic is an instrumental? bummer! ok, I'm sure it will be great, but I hoped for a more traditional "big epic" for the album, with vocals I mean.
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Wasn't it already announced a while ago that there would be a 10 minute instrumental? Looking at the track times, I thought it was pretty obvious that OM would be it.
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Yeah, I remember that, I simply didn't make 2+2.
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Thanks for including my question!
Interesting interview. The only project I see of being at risk is Winery Dogs since this contains two of their members. Flying colors and neal morse have such short tour cycles and I don't see Mike walking away from Neal Morse Band.
Well, I think TWD is pretty much contingent on Richie getting the urge to play in a group project as opposed to doing solo stuff. I think that's the main reason TWD is on something of a hiatus at the moment anyway.
Yeah I get the feeling that Richie has no desire to. I remember Mike tweeting something about only trusting your family right around the time the last tour wrapped up. Far be it from Mike to be cryptic but my first thought was, "Well did the Winery Dogs breakup?"
Later Richie made statements indicating he was done and then did damage control by giving a cryptic statement about being sure they would play with each other again. Since then he's gone back to saying, "I wasn't planning on getting married with the Winery Dogs." Not looking good.
Which sucks for me especially because the Dogs are my favorite post-DT Portnoy project/band and although I'm in the minority I prefer Hot Streak to the debut. Both albums are just solid f'ing rock with lots of variety. I want more. Flying Colors isn't heavy enough to keep me satisfied all the time but the Dogs are great for driving. :(
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Since then [Richie] has gone back to saying, "I wasn't planning on getting married with the Winery Dogs." Not looking good.
Oh, that's a shame. Do you have a source at all? I'd like to read it in context.
I am always surprised when people are surprised by this. Kotzen has released a solo album almost every year since 1989; I think it's pretty obvious that TWD was always going to be a temporary thing, and he would return to doing the solo thing.
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Derek said: "I have no desire to play Anna Lee again."
:'(
Thanks for including my question!
Interesting interview. The only project I see of being at risk is Winery Dogs since this contains two of their members. Flying colors and neal morse have such short tour cycles and I don't see Mike walking away from Neal Morse Band.
Well, I think TWD is pretty much contingent on Richie getting the urge to play in a group project as opposed to doing solo stuff. I think that's the main reason TWD is on something of a hiatus at the moment anyway.
Yeah I get the feeling that Richie has no desire to. I remember Mike tweeting something about only trusting your family right around the time the last tour wrapped up. Far be it from Mike to be cryptic but my first thought was, "Well did the Winery Dogs breakup?"
Later Richie made statements indicating he was done and then did damage control by giving a cryptic statement about being sure they would play with each other again. Since then he's gone back to saying, "I wasn't planning on getting married with the Winery Dogs." Not looking good.
It's somewhere on Mike's forum, but I called this back in the day. It struck me as an odd choice; he was in Poison, he was out. He was in Mr. Big, he was out. Yeah, he was replacing guys (who all came back) but he's a solo artist first and foremost. Not that you can't do both in this day and age, but it didn't feel set in stone to me then, and doesn't now. Thankfully, while I like them and went and saw opening night of this last tour, it's low on my list of Mike endeavors, so it is what it is.
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He was kicked out of Poison for having an affair with Brent Michaels' girlfriend.
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He was kicked out of Poison for having an affair with Brent Michaels' girlfriend.
I think it was Rickie Rocket's fiance.
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He was kicked out of Poison for having an affair with Brent Michaels' girlfriend.
I think it was Rickie Rocket's fiance.
I think you are correct.
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Yeah but he's Canadian it's hard to hit yourself on with a hockey stick to to go to different pages. :lol
Ytse my brother! How are you?
Still hanging on....
lol
This place needs a face lift.
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That only happens with the new album!
Last day of vacation. Back to the grind tomorrow.
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Since then [Richie] has gone back to saying, "I wasn't planning on getting married with the Winery Dogs." Not looking good.
Oh, that's a shame. Do you have a source at all? I'd like to read it in context.
I am always surprised when people are surprised by this. Kotzen has released a solo album almost every year since 1989; I think it's pretty obvious that TWD was always going to be a temporary thing, and he would return to doing the solo thing.
I am surprised you were surprised that I was surprised when I wasn't surprised. Just a tad disappointed :lol
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFTP_rEMrzU
Part 2 of the band's introduction.
Have to admit I laughed out loud on several occasions ;D
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The mood within the band seems truly excelent :tup
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I really love the 2 band intro videos. Seems super fun. I'm excited to get this album and learn some of the music. I wasn't a massive fan of the released song, the vocals seem odd. Gave it 3 or so listens and was able to feel it and rock out though.
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Does Mike own any nice clothing? Also, Derek looks like Satan.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFTP_rEMrzU
Part 2 of the band's introduction.
Have to admit I laughed out loud on several occasions ;D
Called out the "Making history!" line, before Mike did! :)
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Also interesting the origin of album name and Ron's comments about the relation with Portnoy and Derek names :D
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They all seem happy with this, that makes me more excited.
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I'm having a really hard time getting into the new song and the primary reason in the vocals.
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Does Mike own any nice clothing? Also, Derek looks like Satan.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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The fact that Jeff Scott Soto said Thal belongs "here" is meaningful. This is a guy that has played with some truly great players - Yngwie, Neal Schon, Al Pitrelli, Alex Skolnick, Brian May - so he should have some insight.
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Yeah, Soto is every bit the music industry veteran that any of these guys are. Ultimately, we're STILL only talking about opinion. But the guy's opinion carries some weight.
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Have to say I love the way Ron Thal comes across in these videos.
I checked out 'Little Brother is Watching' a couple of months ago, since I'm unfamiliar with his work, and came away reasonably impressed.
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Have to say I love the way Ron Thal comes across in these videos.
I checked out 'Little Brother is Watching' a couple of months ago, since I'm unfamiliar with his work, and came away reasonably impressed.
I like his playing. His songwriting/composing, at least for his solo work, doesn't really do it for me. It's just too "out there" for my tastes. But with Mike and Derek steering the ship, I'm not really concerned about that being a factor here.
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Yeah, Soto is every bit the music industry veteran that any of these guys are. Ultimately, we're STILL only talking about opinion. But the guy's opinion carries some weight.
What's your take, though, on him not being able to get a stable gig? Is it him or the people he got in with (Yngwie has his demons...)?
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Yeah, Soto is every bit the music industry veteran that any of these guys are. Ultimately, we're STILL only talking about opinion. But the guy's opinion carries some weight.
What's your take, though, on him not being able to get a stable gig? Is it him or the people he got in with (Yngwie has his demons...)?
Hard to say. I mean, yeah, he has worked with a lot of artists. But that doesn't mean there is a pattern. He has done a ton of guest spots and his solo thing, but has had a total of 4 of what I would consider "big" gigs, so we can look at those:
I don't know the circumstances of his parting ways with Yngwie, so it could have been anything. I have no idea whether it was his idea, Yngwie's, mutual, whether he left on good terms or bad, or anything.
From everything I know about the Journey situation, he was just done wrong by that band. And given the pattern of Journey's dealings with people over the years, I DO see a pattern there, and it is on their part, not his. But at the end of the day, I don't think he was the right fit for that band anyway.
As far as Talisman, that was long-term, and I just don't know their situation other than the fact that they were never that big and were an on-again/off-again band. He left them to go do Journey during one of their down periods, and they haven't really done anything since.
As far as I know, he is still counted a member of TSO, but that is a seasonal gig, not really a full-time thing.
So I don't really see a pattern. He is spoken of in a positive light from everyone I have ever heard talk about him in the music biz, including Dave Meniketti and Michael Sweet. And seems like a nice, easy-going kind of guy from my limited experience with him...even if I did sing him off the stage at that one gig. :P
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Yeah, Soto is every bit the music industry veteran that any of these guys are. Ultimately, we're STILL only talking about opinion. But the guy's opinion carries some weight.
What's your take, though, on him not being able to get a stable gig? Is it him or the people he got in with (Yngwie has his demons...)?
Hard to say. I mean, yeah, he has worked with a lot of artists. But that doesn't mean there is a pattern. He has done a ton of guest spots and his solo thing, but has had a total of what I would consider "big" gigs, so we can look at those:
I don't know the circumstances of his parting ways with Yngwie, so it could have been anything. I have no idea whether it was his idea, Yngwie's, mutual, whether he left on good terms or bad, or anything.
From everything I know about the Journey situation, he was just done wrong by that band. And given the pattern of Journey's dealings with people over the years, I DO see a pattern there, and it is on their part, not his. But at the end of the day, I don't think he was the right fit for that band anyway.
As far as Talisman, that was long-term, and I just don't know their situation other than the fact that they were never that big and were an on-again/off-again band. He left them to go do Journey during one of their down periods, and they haven't really done anything since.
As far as I know, he is still counted a member of TSO, but that is a seasonal gig, not really a full-time thing.
So I don't really see a pattern. He is spoken of in a positive light from everyone I have ever heard talk about him in the music biz, including Dave Meniketti and Michael Sweet. And seems like a nice, easy-going kind of guy from my limited experience with him...even if I did sing him off the stage at that one gig. :P
Regarding JSS and a stable gig -- he has one. Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Although I understand in the context of this conversation, most wouldn't view that as full-time. On top of that, Talisman was pretty popular in Europe. As bosk1 said, he got a raw deal with Journey, and Yngwie's reputation speaks for itself.
I had the good fortunate of interviewing JSS on the TSO tour in 2010. You can read it here -- https://breakdownroom.net/jss-110.html I spent about a half-hour talking about his career. He seems like a genuinely good guy, who works hard, provides for his family, and is as stable as they come. Again, that's only 30 minutes of being with him, but he was one of the most gracious musicians I've ever interviewed.
So, I don't think stability with JSS is going to be an issue at all. :)
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And that, boys and girls, is why you don't "assume". I haven't heard much about the Journey thing, other than they were going through guys like tissues at a masturbation contest, before they settled on Arnel. I too, don't think that was a great fit, and that's no knock on Soto.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFTP_rEMrzU
Part 2 of the band's introduction.
Have to admit I laughed out loud on several occasions ;D
I love Bumblefoot. :lol He's got a really great humour and humility.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFTP_rEMrzU
Part 2 of the band's introduction.
Have to admit I laughed out loud on several occasions ;D
I love Bumblefoot. :lol He's got a really great humour and humility.
Anyone know the story behind that name? A play on Buckethead maybe?
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Anyone know the story behind that name? A play on Buckethead maybe?
His Wiki entry specifically mentions it:
He adopted his nickname from the bacterial infection of the same name, which he learned about while helping his wife study for her veterinary exams.[2] The name went from being just the name of an album, to the name of a record label, to a band name, to eventually his name as a solo artist.[3]
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Anyone know the story behind that name? A play on Buckethead maybe?
His Wiki entry specifically mentions it:
He adopted his nickname from the bacterial infection of the same name, which he learned about while helping his wife study for her veterinary exams.[2] The name went from being just the name of an album, to the name of a record label, to a band name, to eventually his name as a solo artist.[3]
:tup
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Does Mike own any nice clothing? Also, Derek looks like Satan.
See! This is why EVERYONE on DTF is a TROLL!! LOL ROFL!!! #FAKENEWS!!! EVERYONE there makes sweeping generalizations!!
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Since then [Richie] has gone back to saying, "I wasn't planning on getting married with the Winery Dogs." Not looking good.
Oh, that's a shame. Do you have a source at all? I'd like to read it in context.
I found the first TWD album to be light years ahead of the second but I'd look forward to any new material from them one day, regardless.
https://www.bigmusicgeek.com/interviews/richiekotzen.html
Also says he is the primary songwriter and second album was more collaborative as opposed to the first. I mean, perhaps I shouldn't be reading between the lines but it sounds like he's saying he had a decent enough time but doesn't see himself ever going back as a full time situation.
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Yeah, Soto is every bit the music industry veteran that any of these guys are. Ultimately, we're STILL only talking about opinion. But the guy's opinion carries some weight.
What's your take, though, on him not being able to get a stable gig? Is it him or the people he got in with (Yngwie has his demons...)?
Hard to say. I mean, yeah, he has worked with a lot of artists. But that doesn't mean there is a pattern. He has done a ton of guest spots and his solo thing, but has had a total of 4 of what I would consider "big" gigs, so we can look at those:
I don't know the circumstances of his parting ways with Yngwie, so it could have been anything. I have no idea whether it was his idea, Yngwie's, mutual, whether he left on good terms or bad, or anything.
From everything I know about the Journey situation, he was just done wrong by that band. And given the pattern of Journey's dealings with people over the years, I DO see a pattern there, and it is on their part, not his. But at the end of the day, I don't think he was the right fit for that band anyway.
As far as Talisman, that was long-term, and I just don't know their situation other than the fact that they were never that big and were an on-again/off-again band. He left them to go do Journey during one of their down periods, and they haven't really done anything since.
As far as I know, he is still counted a member of TSO, but that is a seasonal gig, not really a full-time thing.
So I don't really see a pattern. He is spoken of in a positive light from everyone I have ever heard talk about him in the music biz, including Dave Meniketti and Michael Sweet. And seems like a nice, easy-going kind of guy from my limited experience with him...even if I did sing him off the stage at that one gig. :P
Talisman pretty much ended when Marcel Jacob died. It was his baby, though I believe there are some live dates planned.
JSS has a solo album coming out imminently and has done various solo things over many years.
He always comes across as a great guy. I've spoken with him a few times, however briefly, but he's a good guy.
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
The ironic thing is that Mike was probably the most gung-ho to kick Derek out for Jordan back in the day.
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
The ironic thing is that Mike was probably the most gung-ho to kick Derek out for Jordan back in the day.
https://youtu.be/59tLv13dWC4?t=34m55s
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
Isn't Apollo a fictitious character?
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Derek just turned 50... doesn't he look great for his age?
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He looks like the Kardashian mom.
(https://www.insideoutmusic.com/media/artist/large/3013.jpg)(https://cosas.pe/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/KRIS-JENNER-5-768x506.jpg)
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
Isn't Apollo a fictitious character?
:rollin
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He looks like the Kardashian mom.
(https://www.insideoutmusic.com/media/artist/large/3013.jpg)(https://cosas.pe/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/KRIS-JENNER-5-768x506.jpg)
At least he didn't marry a tranny, and plays keyboard a bit better than her.
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But she married an Olympic champion.
Wasn't Apollo from Olympus? See? It's all becoming clear.
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
I get he's probably having a dig at Dream Theater/The Astonishing, but what's his problem with concept albums based on fictitious characters? The Wall (Pink), The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (Rael), Tommy (Tommy), Operation Mindcrime (Nikki) and 2112 (The Priests and co) are all based on fictitious characters, all are classic albums, and all made his new band-leader's (MP's) favourite albums of all time list on his forum.
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
I get he's probably having a dig at Dream Theater, but what's his problem with concept albums based on fictitious characters? The Wall (Pink), The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (Rael), Tommy (Tommy), Operation Mindcrime (Nikki) and 2112 (The Priests and co) are all based on fictitious characters, all are classic albums, and all made his new band-leader's (MP's) favourite albums of all time list.
Even Scenes From a Memory, the DT album that was made after he was gone from DT was a concept record based on fictitious characters.
Unless, he's just saying that to not get people's hopes up that just because this is a prog-metal project with two former members of DT, that there will be no concept albums with characters and stuff like that, which could be the actual reason why he said that.
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
Pretty tasteless of Derek to rip on the Neal Morse Band. I mean, Similitude of a Dream isn't my thing either by why bash it? I wonder what Mike has to say about this.
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Does Mike own any nice clothing? Also, Derek looks like Satan.
See! This is why EVERYONE on DTF is a TROLL!! LOL ROFL!!! #FAKENEWS!!! EVERYONE there makes sweeping generalizations!!
You can joke, but the clothing comment is not a positive thing to say. At least the "Satan" comment comes off as made in jest.
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I wonder if he goes to fancy restaurants wearing a jersey.
I don't dress up when I go to fancy places but I don't wear tank tops and shorts either.
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Nah, he probably busts out the Jiffy Lube attire for fancy restaurants.
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Good grief, people. Are we falling into the trap, yet again, of taking Derek far too seriously? :lol
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Good grief, people. Are we falling into the trap, yet again, of taking Derek far too seriously? :lol
Derek has been taking jabs at DT since they announced the band. The question is why though. What do they have to do with anything?
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So, let me get this straight, 'cos it's early and stuff. We think that his utterance re "no fictitious characters" is a genuine slight against Dream Theater? And I thought I had thin skin :biggrin:
Derek has a larger than life personality, we all know that. He's a cheeky scamp. It's clearly evident when you watch his interviews. Hell, it's even clear from that Making History clip years ago.
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I just want to repeat this comment regarding his tweet about concept albums and fictitious characters.
Because this is a prog-metal project with two former members of DT, maybe he stated that to not get people's hopes up that there will be a concept album with characters and stuff like that. I don't think this one is a jab against DT in general (other comments may be, but I don't think this one is).
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Clearly a jab at Rhapsody.
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So, let me get this straight, 'cos it's early and stuff. We think that his utterance re "no fictitious characters" is a genuine slight against Dream Theater? And I thought I had thin skin :biggrin:
Derek has a larger than life personality, we all know that. He's a cheeky scamp. It's clearly evident when you watch his interviews. Hell, it's even clear from that Making History clip years ago.
It pretty clearly is a dig at The Astonishing. He's going for the DT audience that are disappointed with DT's last album. "Come to us - we have the real heart of DT". Probably done with a great deal of tongue in cheek - that is Derek's way. Now if MP said it...
I think he's advertising rather than trying to stir up a shit storm. If SoA do well, expect a reaction in music from DT.
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Alright, as if ONE interview of ONE band member was not enough, Your Majesty (official French fan club bla bla bla) has had the opportunity to interview face to face (and not an email interview) Derek AND Mike! So I'm pretty excited to have a chat with two of my heroes!
So once again, if you have some questions, write them to me and I'll ask them ;)
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Alright, as if ONE interview of ONE band member was not enough, Your Majesty (official French fan club bla bla bla) has had the opportunity to interview face to face (and not an email interview) Derek AND Mike! So I'm pretty excited to have a chat with two of my heroes!
So once again, if you have some questions, write them to me and I'll ask them ;)
Ask them if Tony Macalpine was considered to join the band, since he played with them on PSMS, which stemmed Sons of Apollo. I would ask Derek how he intends to juggle SOA with Black Country Communion and his solo career.
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Ask Mike, since he's someone always thinking and planning ahead, if he has already a clear idea of the setlists for the future shows, or if he has yet to discuss it with his bandmates, and if actually he's gonna be the setlist master as he was in DT. Subtle hints are welcomed :D
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Ask Mike, since he's someone always thinking and planning ahead, if he has already a clear idea of the setlists for the future shows, or if he has yet to discuss it with his bandmates, and if actually he's gonna be the setlist master as he was in DT. Subtle hints are welcomed :D
If you read my interview, you know that I asked Derek the question and with his elusive answer, I won't miss the chance to ask Mike ("the setlist master" as he called him) directly ;)
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Ah ok, I did read it and I remember Derek saying "Maybe Lines in the Sand, no Anna Lee", I missed the part where it was confirmed that Mike would be once again in charge :tup
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Ask Mike, since he's someone always thinking and planning ahead, if he has already a clear idea of the setlists for the future shows, or if he has yet to discuss it with his bandmates, and if actually he's gonna be the setlist master as he was in DT. Subtle hints are welcomed :D
If you read my interview, you know that I asked Derek the question and with his elusive answer, I won't miss the chance to ask Mike ("the setlist master" as he called him) directly ;)
I'd love if they resurfaced the tracks of the FII sessions that didn't make it to the album.
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They should play Burning my Soul 96', it's been 15 years since it was last played!
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Ask Mike the status of Flying Colors 3, Transatlantic, Neal Morse Band.
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I think the song on the background of the second introduction video is the long instrumental.
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Ask Mike the status of Flying Colors 3, Transatlantic, Neal Morse Band.
Mike on Twitter : "One has nothing to do with the other...haven't I proved I'm more than capable of juggling them ALL??
SOA, TWD, NMB, FC, TA, MA, TSF, TS, etc"
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Once slightly disconcerting aspect of that video was the whole thing about Ron Thal's struggle with the (seemingly) breakneck speed at which DS and MP were operating. That seems to have become an overarching thing with MP ever since ToT, and IMHO some albums, DT and non-DT, have suffered from that lack of gestation. Case in point, I think both solos in Signs of the Times are improvised; not that there's anything inherently wrong with it, but I felt Ron's solo ran out of steam halfway in.
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Ask what's DT got to do with it, got to do with it.
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Regarding JSS and a stable gig -- he has one. Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Although I understand in the context of this conversation, most wouldn't view that as full-time. On top of that, Talisman was pretty popular in Europe. As bosk1 said, he got a raw deal with Journey, and Yngwie's reputation speaks for itself.
Chris Caffrey once said that TSO paid the members enough to be comparable to an annual salary, based on their earnings from the Christmas tour alone. I'm not sure if that has changed since the production has increased so much over the past 10 years, but I still believe it to be accurate. So you're not wrong in saying that he has a stable gig with TSO, even if it's only a few month's work each year. That allows him (and everyone else in TSO) the time to do some other projects and still pay his bills as well.
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Once slightly disconcerting aspect of that video was the whole thing about Ron Thal's struggle with the (seemingly) breakneck speed at which DS and MP were operating. That seems to have become an overarching thing with MP ever since ToT, and IMHO some albums, DT and non-DT, have suffered from that lack of gestation. Case in point, I think both solos in Signs of the Times are improvised; not that there's anything inherently wrong with it, but I felt Ron's solo ran out of steam halfway in.
That's actually a good point rumby. I thought the same thing about the guitar solo in the single, maybe that is the result of not giving things enough time.
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Ask Mike the status of Flying Colors 3, Transatlantic, Neal Morse Band.
Mike on Twitter : "One has nothing to do with the other...haven't I proved I'm more than capable of juggling them ALL??
SOA, TWD, NMB, FC, TA, MA, TSF, TS, etc"
I'm more wondering when we can expect new releases from those 3 bands.
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Once slightly disconcerting aspect of that video was the whole thing about Ron Thal's struggle with the (seemingly) breakneck speed at which DS and MP were operating. That seems to have become an overarching thing with MP ever since ToT, and IMHO some albums, DT and non-DT, have suffered from that lack of gestation.
I was thinking the same thing. But Ron said he seemed to have settled in after an hour or so of playing with them, so I guess we'll see.
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Good grief, people. Are we falling into the trap, yet again, of taking Derek far too seriously? :lol
Derek has been taking jabs at DT since they announced the band. The question is why though. What do they have to do with anything?
Derek is a very smart guy and a smart ass; I wouldn't put it past him to be doing it to wind up those that are sensitive to that sort of thing.
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Good grief, people. Are we falling into the trap, yet again, of taking Derek far too seriously? :lol
Derek has been taking jabs at DT since they announced the band. The question is why though. What do they have to do with anything?
Derek is a very smart guy and a smart ass; I wouldn't put it past him to be doing it to wind up those that are sensitive to that sort of thing.
Yeah, I keep hearing that, so why should I take him seriously at all?
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
I have been in the probably "too sensitive" camp but this seems like no big deal. If anything it is a knock against
The Astonishing
Similitude of a Dream
Operation Mindcrime
The Wall
Tommy
The Lamb
Oh yes and Scenes from a Memory
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Yea, I don't see that as a direct shot at DT since pretty much every concept album has fictitious characters. I would include things like Apollo in that as well.
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Yea, I don't see that as a direct shot at DT since pretty much every concept album has fictitious characters. I would include things like Apollo in that as well.
That's the funny part about it. :lol
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Once slightly disconcerting aspect of that video was the whole thing about Ron Thal's struggle with the (seemingly) breakneck speed at which DS and MP were operating. That seems to have become an overarching thing with MP ever since ToT, and IMHO some albums, DT and non-DT, have suffered from that lack of gestation.
I was thinking the same thing. But Ron said he seemed to have settled in after an hour or so of playing with them, so I guess we'll see.
I agree that some albums show signs of beeing too hastily done.
That Thal has adopted to it says nothing about if the break neak speed has made the album suffer or not.
Sure... this is the way MP is able to juggle soo many bands but I can't help wishing some projects were given more attention.
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Yea, I don't see that as a direct shot at DT since pretty much every concept album has fictitious characters. I would include things like Apollo in that as well.
That's the funny part about it. :lol
I think MP or someone pointed it out because I don't see the tweet anymore. Actually I never saw it so maybe I am twitter illiterate.
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I think Derek is just having fun now. :)
Derek Sherinian @DerekSherinian 1h1 hour ago
More
The DelFuvios Bros....
Bringing heart, balls and swag back to Prog Metal!.
@MikePortnoy @SonsOfApollo1 #reclaimthethrone #nocyborgcheese
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Good grief, people. Are we falling into the trap, yet again, of taking Derek far too seriously? :lol
Derek has been taking jabs at DT since they announced the band. The question is why though. What do they have to do with anything?
Derek is a very smart guy and a smart ass; I wouldn't put it past him to be doing it to wind up those that are sensitive to that sort of thing.
Yeah, I keep hearing that, so why should I take him seriously at all?
I think that's the point. You SHOULDN'T. (Or at least, you do so at your own peril.)
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There wasn't any cyborg cheese on The Astonishing so I guess DT is in the clear. I wonder which band he's taking shots at then.
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I think Derek is just having fun now. :)
Derek Sherinian @DerekSherinian 1h1 hour ago
More
The DelFuvios Bros....
Bringing heart, balls and swag back to Prog Metal!.
@MikePortnoy @SonsOfApollo1 #reclaimthethrone #nocyborgcheese
:rollin :rollin
I guess it's what he is really up to ;D
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
On that I think he's talking a bit serious. If I'm not mistaken, DS is really a guy who is interested in history. I remember Bruce Dickinson saying that he liked much more to write songs about historical characters than fictional ones. Maybe it's just a DS preference and, if one day SOA will do a conceptual album, maybe they'll write about a historical character.
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Alright, as if ONE interview of ONE band member was not enough, Your Majesty (official French fan club bla bla bla) has had the opportunity to interview face to face (and not an email interview) Derek AND Mike! So I'm pretty excited to have a chat with two of my heroes!
So once again, if you have some questions, write them to me and I'll ask them ;)
My suggestion is to ask Mike if he intend to do with SOA something in the line of DT Official Bootlegs (I know, it's early to it, but still...)
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I guess it's something a bit delicate to ask MP, but I have a genuine curiosity if MP and DS had the necessity of any conversation about Sherinian's departure of DT, just to clear any possible animosity that would prevent them to work together again.
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Derek Sherinian on twitter:
@SonsOfApollo1 promises you that there will be no concept records based on fictitious characters-
The era of the Sons is coming Oct 20
I mean, is this really neccesary to promote his band? :facepalm:
On that I think he's talking a bit serious. If I'm not mistaken, DS is really a guy who is interested in history. I remember Bruce Dickinson saying that he liked much more to write songs about historical characters than fictional ones. Maybe it's just a DS preference and, if one day SOA will do a conceptual album, maybe they'll write about a historical character.
One of his albums is named Mythology. And he has a song called Atlantis.
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Yes, but Mythology is just a name for his album which is basically instrumental as the song Atlantis. He didn't written lyrics about it (or any lyric at all). Maybe he likes mythology, but not fiction (to me mythology is a kind of fiction, but it isn't for a lot of people's tastes).
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By the way, I LOVE (science) fiction, but I don't like mythology AT ALL :biggrin:
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I just want to repeat this comment regarding his tweet about concept albums and fictitious characters.
Because this is a prog-metal project with two former members of DT, maybe he stated that to not get people's hopes up that there will be a concept album with characters and stuff like that. I don't think this one is a jab against DT in general (other comments may be, but I don't think this one is).
Seems like a pretty obvious jab at The Astonishing rather than DT as a band. Dream Theater isn't known for writing concept albums all the time like King Diamond or Ayreon. If you don't want to get someone's hopes up, you don't promise not to do something. That tweet is basically saying "Don't worry guys. We're not making that kind of album. Have no fear".
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The comments ultimately don't mean anything; they're just annoying. And I think that's the point. Look, Mike and Derek are smart. They know that, no matter how good the music is, they are a bunch of middle-aged guys making a type of music that has a relatively small niche market. They aren't going to be the next A7X even if the music is amazing. They ultimately want to get this album heard and get people to come to their shows. The best way to do that is to get people talking so that as many people as possible at least know about this project, and a way to get people talking is to rile up a segment of the fanbase and get them talking online. And, to their credit, people are talking. At least, a bit. If that translates into more awareness, and that in turn translates into more albums and tickets sold, it's a success for them.
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As much as I'm sure the debut is going to rock, I have a sinking feeling in my gut (for reasons bosk just mentioned) that because they're a supergroup, they'll put out this album - *maybe* one more - and then call it quits because of lack of sales/lack of huge crowds. I just can't imagine players of this magnitude all together continuing to play average sized clubs for a long time. So in the end we should all probably just enjoy what we get from the band and ignore the tweets even if they're irritating (I find them unnecessary). This'll probably end up the way of the Winery Dogs, or worst case scenario, Adrenaline Mob where one or two of the key members leave early on because of other bands.
That's just my perception based on countless other supergroups/projects formed by 'superstars' in niche genres I've been a fan of.
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The comments ultimately don't mean anything; they're just annoying. And I think that's the point. Look, Mike and Derek are smart. They know that, no matter how good the music is, they are a bunch of middle-aged guys making a type of music that has a relatively small niche market. They aren't going to be the next A7X even if the music is amazing. They ultimately want to get this album heard and get people to come to their shows. The best way to do that is to get people talking so that as many people as possible at least know about this project, and a way to get people talking is to rile up a segment of the fanbase and get them talking online. And, to their credit, people are talking. At least, a bit. If that translates into more awareness, and that in turn translates into more albums and tickets sold, it's a success for them.
No such thing as bad publicity. But yea, that's true too. If they can send a simple tweet and start up conversations, negative or positive, it's publicity for them.
As much as I'm sure the debut is going to rock, I have a sinking feeling in my gut (for reasons bosk just mentioned) that because they're a supergroup, they'll put out this album - *maybe* one more - and then call it quits because of lack of sales/lack of huge crowds. I just can't imagine players of this magnitude all together continuing to play average sized clubs for a long time. So in the end we should all probably just enjoy what we get from the band and ignore the tweets even if they're irritating (I find them unnecessary). This'll probably end up the way of the Winery Dogs, or worst case scenario, Adrenaline Mob where one or two of the key members leave early on because of other bands.
That's just my perception based on countless other supergroups/projects formed by 'superstars' in niche genres I've been a fan of.
I think they've all been around enough to know the music they are playing is way too niche to expect more than average sized clubs. I'm under the assumption they are doing it because this is the music they want to make and they just hope people like it and it can become their main gig. Playing average sized clubs may meet that IMO.
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I said this to someone else in a private conversation, but as far as this band becoming more than a project: I feel like the odds are against it becoming big enough to be the sole support for any of these guys. That isn't a knock on any of them or what they are capable of creating. It just is what I see as the reality of their situation. What I could envision is that, if it does well enough, it can at least become regular side project where they put out a solid album and do a small tour cycle every few years like Transatlantic, while doing whatever else they want to do to fill in in between. As far as I'm concerned, that would be a win. But we'll see. First things first--let's see how good the first album is. I have pretty high hopes.
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Though it's not likely (less than 50% chance) it's possible that one of their songs catches fire on FM radio. I'd say this band, due
to it's makeup has more of a chance than any of MP's other projects...and if that happens it could really change their situation.
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Though it's not likely (less than 50% chance) it's possible that one of their songs catches fire on FM radio. I'd say this band, due
to it's makeup has more of a chance than any of MP's other projects...and if that happens it could really change their situation.
I'd put it under 5% but there's still a chance, and it only is at 5 because of the band members. I don't know about the rest of the country or world, but this type of music gets zero radio airplay here in the NYC tri-state area. Having Eddie Trunk on your side will help with the radio promotion, but it really comes down to the genre not being terribly popular.
At the end of the day, if Dream Theater doesn't get Pull Me Under to be a hit then they likely never become as big as they are, but the 90s were different for rock music in general. We used to have K-Rock 92.3 FM has long been gone now to promote this type of music here.
What we really can go by these days is youtube views. The music video for their first video is at 175k views. Needs to break a million (probably more like 2-3 million really) before they really start to catch anyone's attention outside the bubble of fans who follow these musicians like us here. Which is definitely possible, they will need to get on the road and spread the word/music which is coming so in time we might have a better idea of the success of the band, for now, it's an uphill battle like any other startng back, they just have some big names so they got a head start in this.
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Who was the last metal band to break big? It doesn't happen.
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I said this to someone else in a private conversation, but as far as this band becoming more than a project: I feel like the odds are against it becoming big enough to be the sole support for any of these guys. That isn't a knock on any of them or what they are capable of creating. It just is what I see as the reality of their situation. What I could envision is that, if it does well enough, it can at least become regular side project where they put out a solid album and do a small tour cycle every few years like Transatlantic, while doing whatever else they want to do to fill in in between. As far as I'm concerned, that would be a win. But we'll see. First things first--let's see how good the first album is. I have pretty high hopes.
I think that's a reasonable and realistic perspective.
Though it's not likely (less than 50% chance) it's possible that one of their songs catches fire on FM radio. I'd say this band, due
to it's makeup has more of a chance than any of MP's other projects...and if that happens it could really change their situation.
Honest question, does FM radio matter at all for bands anymore?
Who was the last metal band to break big? It doesn't happen.
Agreed.
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Who was the last metal band to break big? It doesn't happen.
Maybe System of a Down with Chop Suey? Was there abother big metal hit after that?
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I think Derek is just having fun now. :)
Derek Sherinian @DerekSherinian 1h1 hour ago
More
The DelFuvios Bros....
Bringing heart, balls and swag back to Prog Metal!.
@MikePortnoy @SonsOfApollo1 #reclaimthethrone #nocyborgcheese
So he's a troll. I thought Mike hated trolls. Do you think Derek has been taking jabs at Mike on Blabbermouth in order to goad him into forming a progressive metal band?
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Who was the last metal band to break big? It doesn't happen.
Maybe System of a Down with Chop Suey? Was there abother big metal hit after that?
Plenty in the last decade, not so much in the 2010s, although I would argue that bands like Five Finger Death Punch are essentially metal (just no one likes them).
Metal will come back, it always does, but we're just in a tough time for music. When metal comes back, you just hope that some of the legacy acts like DT and whatever Mike's doing get looked at as legends worth respecting rather than old goats who are what caused it to die.
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What bothers me about music today isn't so much the music itself, it's the marketing.
What I mean is that all it takes is money and power to promote the shit out of anything and Sheeple will eat it up. If I were to get onto the VMAs in a band called "You All Suck", in which my band actually does suck, and we only have a lyric video out, but you get Paris Jackson to introduce us and go "whooooooo" at the end of the intro I guarantee the entire place would go nuts and we'd be instant "it" band on iTunes and we'd be set for life.
I miss the 80s, and some of the 90s, where the TV and radio actually played a variety and let us choose when and what to watch/listen. But now it's just whatever is force-fed to the kids and if the kids eat it then that's all it takes to be a success.
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There wasn't any cyborg cheese on The Astonishing so I guess DT is in the clear. I wonder which band he's taking shots at then.
Yeah. But there was a reference to a throne in the Derek's tweet. Wasn't there a throne in The Astonishing? There must have been. I mean, there's an emperor and everything. Wait, emperors do sit on thrones, right?
So, you're wrong. Is IS another dastardly attack on Dream Theater! Gasp!
Erm... should I have posted that in green? :lol
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Clearly an insult toward Ayreon.
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I think it will be somewhat hard for them to even come to close to where DT is and has been for a while in terms of popularity and notability. DT at this point is kind of in a legacy-phase, they have a built in fanbase going back almost 30 years and a catalogue of music people will come back to hearing live again and again. Regardless of the makeup of this new band (and I'm excited to hear it and DS is my favorite keyboardist) we can't escape the fact that they are all a bunch of dudes in their 50's playing a style of of music that's not exactly current. And this feud/trolling or whatever I doubt will make them look any cooler to anyone. And just as with anything else post-DT MP has been involved in I do wonder about the longevity, this isn't the first time he's called something a fulltime band only to either leave it or have the thing quietly fade away. If I get a good album out of it though I'm happy and won't expect more.
That being said, Derek talking about cheese is funny if you consider the spoken word intro to Planet X's King Of The Universe. I'm leaning towards Derek just trying to be funny here ;)
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Good point, efx... we're talking about the guy who put this in an album:
Know then... that near the end of the 17th Millennium of Man,
From the anaemic and corrupt remnants
Of a weak and directionless empire,
There arose a man like a spark of divine flame,
Who would ignite a cleansing conflagration
That swiftly spread across the Galaxy.
Onward, his fleets blazed across the cold gulfs
Between the stars,
Until that final ultimate day... when he stood before the great
Oracle of Delfinium,
"Behold!", the Oracle shouted into the minds of a thousand,
Thousand worlds,
"For here's the one of whom the prophesies have spake!"
And the diadem was lain upon his brow,
As he cast his gaze across a newly won empire,
And the Oracle proclaimed...
"Pompocles, king of the universe!"...
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Talking about guys in their 50s omits the fact that Billy Sheehan is 64. Don't see this band turning out more than two or three records, regardless of quality and sales.
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Exactly. I'm not saying this band is a bad idea, quite the opposite. I love DS and they are on point in that second video describing Thal as he is a stunning musician but I'll take this band disc-by-disc and not getting my hopes up about anything regarding their longevity.
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These guys will never come close to becoming a big artist or even to a DT sized fanbase. That is not meant as an insult or doubt of their quality of output, but my take on reality. How many modern artists in this genre are big? How many do you hear on the (mainstream) radio? At best they will attract a good portion of the DT fanbase and some fans of each of the musicians so they can play in decent venues and have decent record sales.
That said, I very much look forward to this record and hope I can catch a show of theirs.
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This new is a bit on the nose I think, plus I feel he's made this point before. https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/903580602238099456
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Talking about guys in their 50s omits the fact that Billy Sheehan is 64. Don't see this band turning out more than two or three records, regardless of quality and sales.
Gosh. Is he really 64? Not looking - or playing! - too bad for his age.
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Who was the last metal band to break big? It doesn't happen.
Avenged Sevenfold maybe?
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These guys will never come close to becoming a big artist or even to a DT sized fanbase. That is not meant as an insult or doubt of their quality of output, but my take on reality. How many modern artists in this genre are big? How many do you hear on the (mainstream) radio? At best they will attract a good portion of the DT fanbase and some fans of each of the musicians so they can play in decent venues and have decent record sales.
I think that is a fair and reasonable expectation.
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This new is a bit on the nose I think, plus I feel he's made this point before. https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/903580602238099456
I'm really getting tired of Derek making these kinds of juvenile not-so-subtle jabs. Yes, Derek, we get it. I'll still listen to JR's solo material before yours.
Really going to sour me on picking up a copy of SoA's debut if this keeps up.
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This new is a bit on the nose I think, plus I feel he's made this point before. https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/903580602238099456
I'm really getting tired of Derek making these kinds of juvenile not-so-subtle jabs. Yes, Derek, we get it. I'll still listen to JR's solo material before yours.
Really going to sour me on picking up a copy of SoA's debut if this keeps up.
Funny you should say that, another one just popped up: https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/903605469876371456
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That being said, Derek talking about cheese is funny if you consider the spoken word intro to Planet X's King Of The Universe. I'm leaning towards Derek just trying to be funny here ;)
Over the top concept albums are a huge cliche in this realm of music. He's probably making fun of all of it, and DT is absolutely included. Also, at this point, it's pretty obvious that he's intentionally being silly with this whole "rivalry" thing since he's getting a reaction.
And yeah, these guys are not going to have some kind of big commercial breakthrough, even if they do end up being good. What they're playing isn't marketable. Heck, most of the people who ARE marketable these days don't even get much backing. Only a select few get much push from the big players in the industry.
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This new is a bit on the nose I think, plus I feel he's made this point before. https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/903580602238099456
I'm really getting tired of Derek making these kinds of juvenile not-so-subtle jabs. Yes, Derek, we get it. I'll still listen to JR's solo material before yours.
Really going to sour me on picking up a copy of SoA's debut if this keeps up.
Funny you should say that, another one just popped up: https://twitter.com/DerekSherinian/status/903605469876371456
Is that the "swagger of Van Halen" they were talking about? Sorry, can't beat Sammy or Dave when it comes to being big-mouthed.
And what is a "shreik" anyway?
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One thing that will benefit them greatly is if they can get on the festival circuit so they can play to large crowds (and the payday isn't bad either for those). I'm sure they know this. With Mike's connections, hopefully, they can make that happen. I think that is probably one of the best marketing moves a band like this could make. If the crowd likes your show, you've instantly exposed yourself to thousands of potential new fans who will spread the word. And you get the YouTube exposure from people clicking on other more known bands who played at whatever the festival and then your band showing up on the playlist. If they can manage to snag some decent festival bookings, they'll be golden.
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I don't see why they couldn't assuming they are committing to this like they say they are, just have your summers open to tour Europe and I see no reason why they couldn't make the bills at the festivals. Maybe not all of them and maybe not on the main stage, or late in the day, but that's what it takes to make it. Got to play the shows.
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What this reminds me of?
The Beatles (the GOOD GUYS, in white hats) and the Stones (the BAD GUYS, in black hats) that would argue in the press, snipe at each other, then go visit each other in the studio, swap songs, sing backgrounds...
I have almost zero doubt at this point that there isn't SOME communication between the two camps about this, even if it is just the SoA "people" and the DT "people".
I have no proof of this, no information, nothing but speculation, but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here.
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Derek is just being silly and sarcastic, don't take it too seriously. :lol
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Personally, I'm finding Derek's twitter banter highly entertaining. :lol
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...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here.
Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned." Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism." That doesn't apply here. But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire. Knock off the insults.
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I don't take it seriously but I'm still not convinced that it is a good idea, and I'm not convinced that any press = good press.
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...and I'm not convinced that any press = good press.
Oh, I'm not either. Personally, I think it's a pretty dumb philosophy. But I get why others might think differently.
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...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here.
Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned." Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism." That doesn't apply here. But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire. Knock off the insults.
Amen. Thin-skinned... some of us just find it unnecessary. I'm simply annoyed that he feels the need to do this in order to promote his new album. If it keeps up I'm not even going to buy the damn thing because it's silly and annoying and I quite like what DT is doing and what Jordan does with his gear. You don't see Jordan taking jabs at Derek. If that's how Derek gets his laughs, he sounds immature.
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...and I'm not convinced that any press = good press.
Oh, I'm not either. Personally, I think it's a pretty dumb philosophy. But I get why others might think differently.
I think's kinda dumb as well, I'm definitely not "thin-skinned" about it, Derek can say whatever he wants, doesn't bother me...I'm just trying to figure out why he (they) think it's a good idea to take jabs at the band whose fan base will probably make up 95% of SoA fan base. There's the potential to alienate your already assembled target market. Not sure why they would do that.
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...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here.
Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned." Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism." That doesn't apply here. But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire. Knock off the insults.
Amen. Thin-skinned... some of us just find it unnecessary. I'm simply annoyed that he feels the need to do this in order to promote his new album. If it keeps up I'm not even going to buy the damn thing because it's silly and annoying and I quite like what DT is doing and what Jordan does with his gear. You don't see Jordan taking jabs at Derek. If that's how Derek gets his laughs, he sounds immature.
...and I'm not convinced that any press = good press.
Oh, I'm not either. Personally, I think it's a pretty dumb philosophy. But I get why others might think differently.
I think's kinda dumb as well, I'm definitely not "thin-skinned" about it, Derek can say whatever he wants, doesn't bother me...I'm just trying to figure out why he (they) think it's a good idea to take jabs at the band whose fan base will probably make up 95% of SoA fan base. There's the potential to alienate your already assembled target market. Not sure why they would do that.
I agree with both posts, it's annoying and completely unnecesary.
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...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here.
Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned." Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism." That doesn't apply here. But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire. Knock off the insults.
Amen. Thin-skinned... some of us just find it unnecessary. I'm simply annoyed that he feels the need to do this in order to promote his new album. If it keeps up I'm not even going to buy the damn thing because it's silly and annoying and I quite like what DT is doing and what Jordan does with his gear. You don't see Jordan taking jabs at Derek. If that's how Derek gets his laughs, he sounds immature.
You know, I'm about to that point as well.
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It appears he's trying to lure in DT detractors by basically insulting the band.
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It appears he's trying to lure in DT detractors by basically insulting the band.
It does appear that way, and again, I stress, if that's what they want to do, more power to them. Doesn't really bother me, but I still don't get it.
Wouldn't the DT detractors who still like prog metal check this band out without the insults? And DT fans wouldn't have such a bad taste in their mouths? I dunno, just seems weird to me. Still not seeing the net gain by doing this rather than not doing this.
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If Mr. Nicky Lemons would like to promote his album, why not share a clip of one of his solos from the record? Or present a video of him jamming? Or talking with another band member about the album? Promotion via trying to bring down someone or something else is a sign that maybe your material isn't as strong as you say it is. The more he hypes it the less I believe it's as awe-inspiring as he makes it out to be.
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...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here.
Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned." Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism." That doesn't apply here. But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire. Knock off the insults.
It wasn't meant as an insult, but duly noted. I'm not at all looking to stoke fires. It was meant in part how you defined it: "that might be seen as criticism". There was no direct reference, at all, to DT in Derek's comment. It was a point that could equally be taken about defining SoA as a new version of prog metal. There's a general criticism about prog as being "fantasy-based" and "cheesy" (there's a great article at Cracked.com that masterfully parodies the prog genre, and fits nicely with this). You've got two prog metal giants, but the other three have little if any "prog metal" bona fides.
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I honestly think Derek's just having a bit of silly fun, rather than meaning anything hostile by it. Bit of a shame people aren't taking it that way.
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I'm glad I've been oblivious to all of this. I'll just wait for the album to drop thank you very much. :lol
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I have almost zero doubt at this point that there isn't SOME communication between the two camps about this, even if it is just the SoA "people" and the DT "people".
Anything's possible, but I very strongly doubt this. Nothing I've ever seen, read or heard from the DT camp convinces me that they care about this kind of thing that DS is doing. It's not their style. I imagine that if any of the DT guys have any 'connection' to Sons of Apollo it'll be to just check out the album when it's released, think to themselves "Yeah, that sounds a bit like us. It's cool" and then quietly go about their lives and careers. None of them seem to have much interest in internet games, which is one of the innumerable reasons I love them.
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I have almost zero doubt at this point that there isn't SOME communication between the two camps about this, even if it is just the SoA "people" and the DT "people".
Anything's possible, but I very strongly doubt this. Nothing I've ever seen, read or heard from the DT camp convinces me that they care about this kind of thing that DS is doing. It's not their style. I imagine that if any of the DT guys have any 'connection' to Sons of Apollo it'll be to just check out the album when it's released, think to themselves "Yeah, that sounds a bit like us. It's cool" and then quietly go about their lives and careers. None of them seem to have much interest in internet games, which is one of the innumerable reasons I love them.
I agree. I just can't imagine the guys themselves or their PR people discussing this, also because DT won't be back with an album for at the very least 12-13 months, so the Sons of Apollo album will have already been released and toured for (and forgotten by those who won't like it) by the time DT will start doing press for their next album.
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I'm glad I've been oblivious to all of this. I'll just wait for the album to drop thank you very much. :lol
That and the tour is where the fun will really begin. Sadly though in three years when this band is gone and DT will be touring with DT35 you know who will get the last laugh.
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I have almost zero doubt at this point that there isn't SOME communication between the two camps about this, even if it is just the SoA "people" and the DT "people".
Anything's possible, but I very strongly doubt this. Nothing I've ever seen, read or heard from the DT camp convinces me that they care about this kind of thing that DS is doing. It's not their style. I imagine that if any of the DT guys have any 'connection' to Sons of Apollo it'll be to just check out the album when it's released, think to themselves "Yeah, that sounds a bit like us. It's cool" and then quietly go about their lives and careers. None of them seem to have much interest in internet games, which is one of the innumerable reasons I love them.
I agree. They have been 100% classy in all that they do and conduct themselves. Much like Rush.
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I honestly think Derek's just having a bit of silly fun, rather than meaning anything hostile by it. Bit of a shame people aren't taking it that way.
Either that or he graduated from Portnoy's School of Passive Aggressive Social Media Posts.
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Agreed. Rush and DT are both class acts. 😎
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Honest question, does FM radio matter at all for bands anymore?
I wonder about this too. No one in my house listens to the radio but they all listen to music. I'm not familiar with the stuff my kids listen to but it all sounds very modern aside from a random old popular rock song. They don't subscribe to any streaming stuff because they have no money. I know some people at work use Spotify. Every new or old new band I find out about is through forums & YouTube.
Anyway, I think bosk1 & cramx3 summed up the chances of Sons of Apollo being a long time thing. I thought The Winery Dogs was going to be a set gig for Portnoy. I assumed if any kind of rock music could be successful it would be the kind of stuff The Winery Dogs were playing. But then again I don't know what kind of modern rock appeals to the masses or even a decently sizable audience.
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Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.
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Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.
Yes, but not let's not forget the popular sour grapes argument going around these days, "who cares about skill or playing really well, it's all about feel"
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Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.
Yes, but not let's not forget the popular sour grapes argument going around these days, "who cares about skill or playing really well, it's all about feel"
And I'd be the first to tell you that there is validity to that argument (videos of 13 year olds shredding a million notes a second, but then can't hold a proper vibrato or being able to write anything being the perfect example)... but for someone to say that Jordan Rudess (or anyone in DT for that matter) doesn't have feel is just.... incorrect.
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I find much of Derek's music to have too much shred as is so I'm not sure he's one to talk about feel
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Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.
Yes, but not let's not forget the popular sour grapes argument going around these days, "who cares about skill or playing really well, it's all about feel"
And I'd be the first to tell you that there is validity to that argument (videos of 13 year olds shredding a million notes a second, but then can't hold a proper vibrato or being able to write anything being the perfect example)... but for someone to say that Jordan Rudess (or anyone in DT for that matter) doesn't have feel is just.... incorrect.
I agree, fast does not equal good. Also agree, I think all the guys in DT have tremendous feel,
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I'm glad I've been oblivious to all of this. I'll just wait for the album to drop thank you very much. :lol
That and the tour is where the fun will really begin. Sadly though in three years when this band is gone and DT will be touring with DT35 you know who will get the last laugh.
If it does, it does. I'm not thinking that far. Im just trying to get in the bands pants right now. One step at a time. :lol
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...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here.
Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned." Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism." That doesn't apply here. But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire. Knock off the insults.
Amen. Thin-skinned... some of us just find it unnecessary. I'm simply annoyed that he feels the need to do this in order to promote his new album. If it keeps up I'm not even going to buy the damn thing because it's silly and annoying and I quite like what DT is doing and what Jordan does with his gear. You don't see Jordan taking jabs at Derek. If that's how Derek gets his laughs, he sounds immature.
You know, I'm about to that point as well.
Same here.
Ya know what the funny thing is though? I actually kind of agree with Derek about Rudess. I still think his comments are shitty but I always thought Jordan had a penchant for new shiny things and threw them into the music whether they fit or not.
I remember when he introduced the continuum and then used it religiously. I thought, you spent 98% of your life without that thing, and now you can't live without it.
Then iphones came out and it was kind of a gimmick that you could use apps for music and not just for texting and phonecalls. So Jordan put an iphone solo into Rites of Passage.
Also, he sometimes noodles so damn much I find it annoying. I remember hearing a bootleg of him playing Space Dye Vest with James at a one off New York show (just the two of them). He added all these fiddley things to the main melody which kind of ruined it.
BUT.........
When they played Space Dye Vest on the DT12 tour, Jordan played it totally respectfully and did an outstanding job. He still comes up with amazing solos that don't rely on gimmicks and sometimes new sounds he discovers or invents are freaking badass.
Long story short, even though I have some complaints about Jordan and he is probably my least favorite member of DT, he didn't deserve the garbage spewed by Derek (who I was quite a big fan of until recently). Despite some *opinions* I or other people may have about Jordan, you can't deny that he plays with feel all the time. He puts a lot of thought into his parts and he is a damn important member of Dream Theater.
I also think his solos in Beneath the Surface and Along for the Ride are two of the most beautiful keyboard related things I've ever heard.
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I'm glad I've been oblivious to all of this. I'll just wait for the album to drop thank you very much. :lol
That and the tour is where the fun will really begin. Sadly though in three years when this band is gone and DT will be touring with DT35 you know who will get the last laugh.
If it does, it does. I'm not thinking that far. Im just trying to get in the bands pants right now. One step at a time. :lol
I shouldn't have said that. I hope they tour well into their 60's with this band and have a lot of success.
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The Beatles (the GOOD GUYS, in white hats) and the Stones (the BAD GUYS, in black hats) that would argue in the press, snipe at each other, then go visit each other in the studio, swap songs, sing backgrounds...
Except that nobody in DT has said anything. Right now it's just one side acting like children.
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I have to be honest, with all this forced hooplah, I can't help but expect a decisive ... "meh" from the album. I don't know, it's like with big dogs who don't need to bark because they know they're top. The more bark, the less I expect.
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I honestly think Derek's just having a bit of silly fun, rather than meaning anything hostile by it. Bit of a shame people aren't taking it that way.
Its funny actually. He knows how people are on Twitter, he knows how people react to MPs tweets, so he decides to have fun and be vauge with his supposed jabs.
For me, I see it aa him describing the kind of prog theyre doing. Not the kind with a narrative concept, or modern widdly didly keyboard sounds (Many bands use these sounds not just JR, Haken). Derek is an 80's Heavy Metal guy and likes to rock, so he uses Keyboard sounds that rock.
Anyways, ita great hes having fun with twitter. People can take it however as they usually do anyways when someone posts something even a simple...(hi.) Tweet.
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I have to be honest, with all this forced hooplah, I can't help but expect a decisive ... "meh" from the album. I don't know, it's like with big dogs who don't need to bark because they know they're top. The more bark, the less I expect.
I'm leaning the same way. It's like 2 weeks ago when Conor McGregor was trying to sell his fight by saying he was going to knock out Floyd in 3 rounds, and boxing would have a new king. Everyone just kind of nodded along and said "Yeah, that's not gonna happen, but whatever".
I get why Derek is proclaiming SOA will "generate 10 times the heat" of any other band they're in, but it won't. There's a tiny market for this kind of thing, and it's largely already been cornered by Dream Theater, and to a lesser extent, the younger groups like Threshold and Haken. MP sold Similitude Of A Dream as being on a par with the greatest rock albums ever made (and it wasn't far off in my opinion, I love the album), but it still landed at number 178 on the French chart, according to its Wiki page, and they apparently just played it to 450 people at their last show. The market isn't what Derek seems to think it is.
That said, I do like the track they released and I'll buy the album. Derek is just playing around with his tweets. It's witless and dumb to me, but some will like it (and those that don't will be told to research his sense of humour, because apparently it's necessary now to know someone's sense of humour before deciding something is infantile). I understand why he's doing this, because if he didn't the album would sink without trace rather than floating for a week or two.
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I get why Derek is proclaiming SOA will "generate 10 times the heat" of any other band they're in, but it won't. There's a tiny market for this kind of thing, and it's largely already been cornered by Dream Theater, and to a lesser extent, the younger groups like Threshold and Haken.
I never heard of Threshold before but looks like they've been around for almost 30 years.
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It's like 2 weeks ago when Conor McGregor was trying to sell his fight by saying he was going to knock out Floyd in 3 rounds, and boxing would have a new king. Everyone just kind of nodded along and said "Yeah, that's not gonna happen, but whatever".
People may have said "yeah, whatever" to Conor's prediction, but they still plunked down $100 to see the bout.
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Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.
Don't give him any ideas.
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...but I'm putting my money on Derek having a decent size laugh at some people's (thin skinned) expense here.
Observing the sniping and calling it out as silly is not "thin-skinned." Thin-skinned is "easily insulted and unable to deal with anything that might be seen as criticism." That doesn't apply here. But thanks for trying to throw gas on the fire. Knock off the insults.
Amen. Thin-skinned... some of us just find it unnecessary. I'm simply annoyed that he feels the need to do this in order to promote his new album. If it keeps up I'm not even going to buy the damn thing because it's silly and annoying and I quite like what DT is doing and what Jordan does with his gear. You don't see Jordan taking jabs at Derek. If that's how Derek gets his laughs, he sounds immature.
You know, I'm about to that point as well.
Also, he sometimes noodles so damn much I find it annoying. I remember hearing a bootleg of him playing Space Dye Vest with James at a one off New York show (just the two of them). He added all these fiddley things to the main melody which kind of ruined it.
I really used to hate that about Joradan; I'd check out his solo work and it'd contain these beautiful bits of music and then he'd try to fit as many notes as possible into a 5 minute song. I realized that's just the kind of player he is, it's not entirely my taste.
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Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.
Don't give him any ideas.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
Now for the next three albums he'll work in keychain solos into everything.
Or a house keys app.
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If Mr. Nicky Lemons would like to promote his album, why not share a clip of one of his solos from the record? Or present a video of him jamming? Or talking with another band member about the album? Promotion via trying to bring down someone or something else is a sign that maybe your material isn't as strong as you say it is. The more he hypes it the less I believe it's as awe-inspiring as he makes it out to be.
I have to be honest, with all this forced hooplah, I can't help but expect a decisive ... "meh" from the album. I don't know, it's like with big dogs who don't need to bark because they know they're top. The more bark, the less I expect.
These.
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Considering Jordan could play his house keys better than Derek can play an actual keyboard, if I was Derek I'd shut my mouth.
I would disagree, but that's just me...
I don't have problems, with Mike and Derek trying to create competition between DT and SoA. It was inevitably going to happen anyway. I'm going to just stay out of it!
Only thing i care about is, that i really enjoy what i have heard so far and can't wait to hear the whole album.
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Some natural competition would have been better. You know, SOA release an awesome debut that casts a shadow over Dream Theater. Not this school yard bullshit.
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Some natural competition would have been better. You know, SOA release an awesome debut that casts a shadow over Dream Theater. Not this school yard bullshit.
*boom*
All we have right now is a loud-mouthed bully shouting louder and louder trying to gain as much attention as they can while the successful nerd just ignores it and tries to move on but the bully just keeps getting more and more mad about it.
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Some natural competition would have been better. You know, SOA release an awesome debut that casts a shadow over Dream Theater. Not this school yard bullshit.
*boom*
All we have right now is a loud-mouthed bully shouting louder and louder trying to gain as much attention as they can while the successful nerd just ignores it and tries to move on but the bully just keeps getting more and more mad about it.
Who's getting mad? No one in SOA seem to care whatsoever about DT being quiet.
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From the Jeff Scott Soto FB account:
By the kindness and graciousness of Frontiers Records, I am able to share this moment with you…today is my brother Joey’s birthday and it won’t be one he’ll celebrate or remember.
As some of you may have read on my social media, Joey suffered a few heart attacks in January this year and has been left in a state where he is only alive with the assistance of machines and medical science.
When it 1st happened, the family and I were so distraught yet I needed an outlet to express how much I will miss him so I reached out to my dear friend Paulo Mendonca and asked if he could muster up the soundtrack of a song that I could drop these emotions into. Paulo knew exactly what to do and supplied me with this piece of music that I put my words to…and I called it ‘Song For Joey’.
I had other titles in mind but I always loved the Toto song ’Song For Jeff’ that they did for J Porcaro, since I shared the same name, I used the entendre of making sure the world knew who and what this song was about.
It was not intended for release, only for myself and my family to share but it dawned on me I needed to share this song with the rest of the world.
So on this day, Sept 4, a song not intended to use as a Single or promo for Retribution, I am sharing as a tribute and gift for my brother’s birthday, ‘Song For Joey’, Happy Birthday bro, I miss you!
https://youtu.be/1c8V7PeDNRQ
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Some natural competition would have been better. You know, SOA release an awesome debut that casts a shadow over Dream Theater. Not this school yard bullshit.
*boom*
All we have right now is a loud-mouthed bully shouting louder and louder trying to gain as much attention as they can while the successful nerd just ignores it and tries to move on but the bully just keeps getting more and more mad about it.
Haha, that's a fantastical interpretation of the situation. If one is going to use high school tropes to characterize this, it's far more likely that the class clown is sitting in the back throwing wise cracks and the nerd in the front is sitting quietly trying not to draw attention to himself.
"Bully" is an awful strong - and, given Derek's sense of humor, woefully prejudicial - term to use.
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I'm just trying to figure out this tweet from Derek. Which band is he talking about?
No asshole puckering high vocal shreiks in SONS OF APOLLO!! We promise!@SonsOfApollo1 @MikePortnoy @bumblefoot @jeffscottsoto @BillyonBass
LaBrie doesn't really shriek anymore. Breathy vocals on the other hand...
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I'm just trying to figure out this tweet from Derek. Which band is he talking about?
No asshole puckering high vocal shreiks in SONS OF APOLLO!! We promise!@SonsOfApollo1 @MikePortnoy @bumblefoot @jeffscottsoto @BillyonBass
LaBrie doesn't really shriek anymore. Breathy vocals on the other hand...
Maybe he's just talking about common prog stereotypes?
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I'm just trying to figure out this tweet from Derek. Which band is he talking about?
No asshole puckering high vocal shreiks in SONS OF APOLLO!! We promise!@SonsOfApollo1 @MikePortnoy @bumblefoot @jeffscottsoto @BillyonBass
LaBrie doesn't really shriek anymore. Breathy vocals on the other hand...
Maybe he's just talking about common prog stereotypes?
All of his commenters sure felt like he was talking about DT.
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I'm just trying to figure out this tweet from Derek. Which band is he talking about?
No asshole puckering high vocal shreiks in SONS OF APOLLO!! We promise!@SonsOfApollo1 @MikePortnoy @bumblefoot @jeffscottsoto @BillyonBass
LaBrie doesn't really shriek anymore. Breathy vocals on the other hand...
Maybe he's just talking about common prog stereotypes?
All of his commenters sure felt like he was talking about DT.
Sucks for them.
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Yea that one is pretty obviously not related to DT.
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I actually think Derek should that style of tweeting and take it to a comedic extreme.
Like next tweet being "You won't find any MINDLESS SHREDDING in SOA!!!!!"
Followed by "SOA IS NOT ABOUT ANY OF THAT DOUBLE BASS DRUMMING"
And eventually ending it with "We promise you SOA won't be like all those other cheesy lame bands and play any actual notes"
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
1. I doubt Derek would ever dare insulted Devin Townsend.
2. Can you prove that James doesn't wank it on tour? I bet he does
3. I have seen no conclusive proof that Mangini is not a robot.
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I honestly think Derek's just having a bit of silly fun, rather than meaning anything hostile by it. Bit of a shame people aren't taking it that way.
Either that or he graduated from Portnoy's School of Passive Aggressive Social Media Posts.
He's just stirring it up, and knowing exactly what he's doing. I think it's poor.
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
Of course this would be after seeing a legitimate and constructive criticism of Portnoy and responding, "He just can't win! He could literally grow extra limbs for legless kittens and you would criticize him for not doing anything for legless grasshoppers!!! Leave Britney alone!!!"
Anyway....LOL about the sensitive thing.
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
1. I doubt Derek would ever dare insulted Devin Townsend.
2. Can you prove that James doesn't wank it on tour? I bet he does
3. I have seen no conclusive proof that Mangini is not a robot.
Adami, change your password. Stadler hacked your account.
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
1. I doubt Derek would ever dare insulted Devin Townsend.
2. Can you prove that James doesn't wank it on tour? I bet he does
3. I have seen no conclusive proof that Mangini is not a robot.
Adami, change your password. Stadler hacked your account.
Have you ever considered that maybe..........................I am Stadler?
When's the last time you saw Stadler and me in the same bed?
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Only in political cartoons Adami.
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
1. I doubt Derek would ever dare insulted Devin Townsend.
2. Can you prove that James doesn't wank it on tour? I bet he does
3. I have seen no conclusive proof that Mangini is not a robot.
Adami, change your password. Stadler hacked your account.
Have you ever considered that maybe..........................I am Stadler?
When's the last time you saw Stadler and me in the same bed?
Last night. :zook2:
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honestly this twitter stuff has a really high chance of being more entertaining than the actual album so keep it coming, Derek. :lol
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Haha, that's a fantastical interpretation of the situation. If one is going to use high school tropes to characterize this, it's far more likely that the class clown is sitting in the back throwing wise cracks and the nerd in the front is sitting quietly trying not to draw attention to himself.
"Bully" is an awful strong - and, given Derek's sense of humor, woefully prejudicial - term to use.
That's a lot better, actually, nice.
Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
*boom*
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:flame:
honestly this twitter stuff has a really high chance of being more entertaining than the actual album so keep it coming, Derek. :lol
:flame:
Burrrrrrrrrnnnnnnn.....
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
1. Where did Derek say anything remotely like that?
2. Why the need to launch an attack on Stadler? Knock it off.
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
1. Where did Derek say anything remotely like that?
His Twitter.
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
1. Where did Derek say anything remotely like that?
His Twitter.
I can see nothing like that on his Twitter.
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I was exaggerating. I thought that would have been obvious.
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
1. Where did Derek say anything remotely like that?
His Twitter.
I can see nothing like that on his Twitter.
Um, look again?
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This whole thing just proves how toxic Portnoy's little corner of the music world is, and has been since he left Dream Theater.
At least we can go back to these tweets when they do eventually make their concept album about fictitious characters. Every prog band has at least one of those in them.
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It is interesting to me though that as far as this particular band goes with its promotion, MP has done very little beyond being excited about it. It's mainly (and it pains me to say it) Derek that's been fueling the fire in the most unsubtle of ways.
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It is interesting to me though that as far as this particular band goes with its promotion, MP has done very little beyond being excited about it. It's mainly (and it pains me to say it) Derek that's been fueling the fire in the most unsubtle of ways.
But if that's the sort of company he keeps/the sort of people he wants to have as bandmates, that tells you a lot. And just the fact he has to keep clarifying his statements because he seems to say too much. It's just not a healthy environment to be in. I'll stick with Flying Colors and Transatlantic because I've enjoyed previous albums of theirs, but the rest of it I'll probably leave. They've certainly put me off this latest project.
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It is interesting to me though that as far as this particular band goes with its promotion, MP has done very little beyond being excited about it. It's mainly (and it pains me to say it) Derek that's been fueling the fire in the most unsubtle of ways.
But if that's the sort of company he keeps/the sort of people he wants to have as bandmates, that tells you a lot. And just the fact he has to keep clarifying his statements because he seems to say too much. It's just not a healthy environment to be in. I'll stick with Flying Colors and Transatlantic because I've enjoyed previous albums of theirs, but the rest of it I'll probably leave. They've certainly put me off this latest project.
Oh, for sure. And that's what strikes me as "interesting" about the project. Him and Derek are personality wise a match made in heaven but if they keep feeding each others worst tendencies I can see the other members feeling at odds with that. At least based on how they come across to me.
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Derek's comment about 'no high vocal shrieks' also annoys me a bit, because I thought Soto's vocals on the SOA single Signs of the Time (I really hate that btw, 'Sign of the Times' sounds better to me) were boring. My favorite kind of metal singer is the kind who is aggressive but can consistently hit those soaring high notes - Halford, Scheeper, Kiske, Kotipelto, the list goes on and on. Like, that's one of the defining aspects of traditional heavy metal, wtf?
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Derek's comment about 'no high vocal shrieks' also annoys me a bit, because I thought Soto's vocals on the SOA single Signs of the Time (I really hate that btw, 'Sign of the Times' sounds better to me) were boring. My favorite kind of metal singer is the kind who is aggressive but can consistently hit those soaring high notes - Halford, Scheeper, Kiske, Kotipelto, the list goes on and on. Like, that's one of the defining aspects of traditional heavy metal, wtf?
Jeff Scott Soto hitting some high notes...........
https://youtu.be/1fv081csf0g?t=476
He would struggle with that these days but Soto is often under rated as a metal singer because he has spent much of his career in a more AOR type setting.
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Derek's comment about 'no high vocal shrieks' also annoys me a bit, because I thought Soto's vocals on the SOA single Signs of the Time (I really hate that btw, 'Sign of the Times' sounds better to me) were boring. My favorite kind of metal singer is the kind who is aggressive but can consistently hit those soaring high notes - Halford, Scheeper, Kiske, Kotipelto, the list goes on and on. Like, that's one of the defining aspects of traditional heavy metal, wtf?
Jeff Scott Soto hitting some high notes...........
https://youtu.be/1fv081csf0g?t=476
He would struggle with that these days but Soto is often under rated as a metal singer because he has spent much of his career in a more AOR type setting.
I don't follow Soto at all so that was a pleasant surprise. I'm familiar with his past with Yngwie but not as much as I'd like to be.
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C'mon Derek, let's try a different marketing plan eh?
I'm very excited about this album but as a long time fan of both DT and MP I feel uncomfortable with this.
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i guess Derek reads this thread, i remember someone commenting about him saying something that could apply to JLB, and someone replied it should've been breathy vocals.
Derek Sherinian @DerekSherinian 3h3 hours ago
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There is also no cheesy breathy vocals or "fake anger" vocals on @SonsOfApollo1 - we promise!!!
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If Derek is reading this, I hope he knows he's lost at least one sale of this album. Interest on seeing them live is dipping strongly, too. But Derek also strikes me as the kind of guy who would laugh this off, so... whatever floats his boat. Ain't for me, though.
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i guess Derek reads this thread, i remember someone commenting about him saying something that could apply to JLB, and someone replied it should've been breathy vocals.
Derek Sherinian @DerekSherinian 3h3 hours ago
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There is also no cheesy breathy vocals or "fake anger" vocals on @SonsOfApollo1 - we promise!!!
So glad I stopped following Derek as well! (stopped following MP on social media many months ago, and I don't regret it at all)
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It is interesting to me though that as far as this particular band goes with its promotion, MP has done very little beyond being excited about it. It's mainly (and it pains me to say it) Derek that's been fueling the fire in the most unsubtle of ways.
But if that's the sort of company he keeps/the sort of people he wants to have as bandmates, that tells you a lot. And just the fact he has to keep clarifying his statements because he seems to say too much. It's just not a healthy environment to be in. I'll stick with Flying Colors and Transatlantic because I've enjoyed previous albums of theirs, but the rest of it I'll probably leave. They've certainly put me off this latest project.
Oh, for sure. And that's what strikes me as "interesting" about the project. Him and Derek are personality wise a match made in heaven but if they keep feeding each others worst tendencies I can see the other members feeling at odds with that. At least based on how they come across to me.
I can't see them think they are doing anything wrong. With MP in the past it seems to be "I can say ANYTHING I want to say because I am honest and too bad if you don't like it" although if you say anything negative about him it's trolling or bashing.
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Dezza's got this marketing thing all sussed out - throw grenades at the favourite artists of your most likely audience . :)
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i guess Derek reads this thread, i remember someone commenting about him saying something that could apply to JLB, and someone replied it should've been breathy vocals.
Derek Sherinian @DerekSherinian 3h3 hours ago
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There is also no cheesy breathy vocals or "fake anger" vocals on @SonsOfApollo1 - we promise!!!
So they won't be playing A Nightmare To Remember then? Or any of those other songs MP wrote angsty lyrics to and directed JLB to sing?
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If Derek is reading this, I hope he knows he's lost at least one sale of this album. Interest on seeing them live is dipping strongly, too. But Derek also strikes me as the kind of guy who would laugh this off, so... whatever floats his boat. Ain't for me, though.
Probably lost a whole lot of sales....
I would have preordered the album but due to Dereks tweets lost interrest... unless the next song kicks me hard I will probably just listen to it on Spotify
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sounds a bit like MP doesn't want to get all the "hate" comments, lets Derek post all his sentiments, and since it's the guy that wrote Never Enough, it comes as a plus to alienate all the "haters" away by doing this. :)
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
1. I doubt Derek would ever dare insulted Devin Townsend.
2. Can you prove that James doesn't wank it on tour? I bet he does
3. I have seen no conclusive proof that Mangini is not a robot.
Adami, change your password. Stadler hacked your account.
Have you ever considered that maybe..........................I am Stadler?
When's the last time you saw Stadler and me in the same bed?
Last night. :zook2:
I was told there were to be no pictures. :)
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I think its time they release a new song or something.
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Another thing is the whole idea of MP trying to force a new home band for himself. No mate, you chose to leave your home band in 2010. You will now spend the rest of your career permanently floating between what are essentially side projects.
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I get the impression DTF, and the Blabbermouth crowd, are being played. Without these tweets, this thread would have dropped into oblivion quickly, but now this thread has been at the top for weeks now. If MP and DS see trying to achieve exposure, they manage well.
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Another thing is the whole idea of MP trying to force a new home band for himself. No mate, you chose to leave your home band in 2010. You will now spend the rest of your career permanently floating between what are essentially side projects.
That's not your call to make. It's his.
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But it's en route to a quasi-Pyrrhic victory if this is the promotional road they want to take, we're already seeing people who are losing interest because of these dumb snipes at Dream Theater. That is NOT the kind of reputation you want to have - it's a terrible first impression to make - before your album is even on the market. It's stupid in every way other than the "all press is good press" mentality.
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Another thing is the whole idea of MP trying to force a new home band for himself. No mate, you chose to leave your home band in 2010. You will now spend the rest of your career permanently floating between what are essentially side projects.
That's not your call to make. It's his.
That is true. I think he likes not having a home band now since it seems to be a matter of pride how many bands he plays in. I know of all of those he tried to make a home band of
1. Adrenaline Mob, but very low financial gain so he left
2. The Winery Dogs, fairly successful and not his fault the main song writer left
3. SOA, we will see
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But it's en route to a quasi-Pyrrhic victory if this is the promotional road they want to take, we're already seeing people who are losing interest because of these dumb snipes at Dream Theater. That is NOT the kind of reputation you want to have - it's a terrible first impression to make - before your album is even on the market. It's stupid in every way other than the "all press is good press" mentality.
This.
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Well, time will certainly tell if the four of you that have such a moral quandary with this (and who have bailed on the project) will be outnumbered by the people that are brought to the project by this constant back and forth, but who will give the music a fair shake.
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Derek: "DT sucks! LaBrie is a wanker. Mangini is a robot."
Stadler: " lol Derek is just being silly. You guys are too sensitive."
1. I doubt Derek would ever dare insulted Devin Townsend.
2. Can you prove that James doesn't wank it on tour? I bet he does
3. I have seen no conclusive proof that Mangini is not a robot.
Adami, change your password. Stadler hacked your account.
Have you ever considered that maybe..........................I am Stadler?
When's the last time you saw Stadler and me in the same bed?
Last night. :zook2:
I was told there were to be no pictures. :)
I tell you a lot of things.
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Well people can feel what they like, but I find it amusing that so many get there feelings hurt over what one band member says about another band member of a different band. It seems like a few here now are not going to buy the SOA album because of it? I mean really? Only because Derek and Mike have taken shots at DT? I mean it should be about the music. If you're not going to buy the cd at least don't buy it for a good reason, like the music totally sucks! I would be fine with that. I mean I am a huge Metallica fan, but I'm also a fan of Slayer and Megadeth and both of those bands have talked major shit about Metallica. It never made me stop being a fan of either band. If anything I think the shit talking is hilarious. I'm a fan of the music. I could careless about the artists. As long as they put out music I enjoy that is all I care about. Just my 2 pennies, whatever.
PS. It's been forever since I posted anything here. How's everyone doing? ;D
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I haven't bailed. Yet. If the next song doesn't do it for me I'll check it out on line prior to a purchase. I'm just not going to blindly pre-order like I was originally intending.
Just to note, my feelings are not hurt. I just find the bullshit Derek is doing annoying, childish, unnecessary, etc.. My biggest problem with the band after one song is the vocalist not doing anything for me. Seems like a nice guy, just not my cup of tea.
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I haven't bailed. Yet. If the next song doesn't do it for me I'll check it out on line prior to a purchase. I'm just not going to blindly pre-order like I was originally intending.
Just to note, my feelings are not hurt. I just find the bullshit Derek is doing annoying, childish, unnecessary, etc.. My biggest problem with the band after one song is the vocalist not doing anything for me. Seems like a nice guy, just not my cup of tea.
Yea that's cool. If the music doesn't do it for you, no reason to buy it. I thought the first song they released was ok, but there wasn't anything that made me go WOW!
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Well, I mean, this and MP's forum are about the only places for discussion of this band that I've seen (outside of their Facebook). It's the topic of choice lately, since there isn't any new single out there. I'm not out here with a picket sign boycotting Derek (I've actually listened to his music for over a decade now), but DT holds far more sway with me than Derek Sherinian or any of the guys in SoA who aren't Mike, so it's very easy for me to get annoyed by this and just set aside the band and put my $14 or whatever it costs towards something else. Not like I'm trying to start a movement, it's just one DT fan's opinion. (I'm also Mike's fan, and I'm wondering what he thinks about Derek's comments)
My feelings aren't 'hurt' either, in fact I was going to buy this on day one! But 'no cheese' comments about DT from the lord of lava lamps? Nah...
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But 'no cheese' comments about DT from the lord of lava lamps? Nah...
But - just asking - why then do you assume he's being a truthful hypocrite, instead of cheekily funny? It may not be YOUR humor (it really isn't mine, though I get it, and it's similar to the type of humor my college friends and I engage in) but it's still just as likely to be humor as the alternative.
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If anything I think the shit talking is hilarious.
That seems to be what it comes down to. Some people find the "shit talking" (your phrase) hilarious. Others - like me - find it tedious and juvenile.
Of course we all could be misjudging this and Derek is subtly telling us they've fired the singer and gone all-instrumental. No high wails on the album, no breathy vocals, no fake anger*. What then is left on a prog metal album??
*I'll say though that I was actually thrilled to hear the anger in the lyrics will not be 'fake'. Rock stars sharing their genuine and heart-felt rage about the important issues of the day tends to be some of the finest comedy out there.
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But 'no cheese' comments about DT from the lord of lava lamps? Nah...
But - just asking - why then do you assume he's being a truthful hypocrite, instead of cheekily funny? It may not be YOUR humor (it really isn't mine, though I get it, and it's similar to the type of humor my college friends and I engage in) but it's still just as likely to be humor as the alternative.
Because he's promoting Sons of Apollo while taking digs at other people. It doesn't matter if it's DT or The Nuge, that's not an effective method of good marketing, simply put. We're having a conversation about this. That should say quite a bit right there about how appropriate (or not) it is.
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Whether he's joking, serious, or something else entirely, people have a right to be put off by it, to feel that it is childish, or whatever. As others have said, Derek and Mike would probably be wise to realize that they have a relatively small "built-in" fan base, and that their comments are alienating some of that fan base. But ultimately, it's their decision to make how to manage their careers. We the fans just get to decide whether we are buying what they are selling.
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It's just incredibly childish. I mean, he's in his 50s, for goodness' sake! He should be past that now.
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That last DS tweet makes me really believe they are watching what goes on in this thread, and DTF.
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Well, time will certainly tell if the four of you that have such a moral quandary with this (and who have bailed on the project) will be outnumbered by the people that are brought to the project by this constant back and forth, but who will give the music a fair shake.
I didn't say I wasn't going to listen to it. I said I'm not going to pay for it.
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Whether he's joking, serious, or something else entirely, people have a right to be put off by it, to feel that it is childish, or whatever. As others have said, Derek and Mike would probably be wise to realize that they have a relatively small "built-in" fan base, and that their comments are alienating some of that fan base. But ultimately, it's their decision to make how to manage their careers. We the fans just get to decide whether we are buying what they are selling.
I agree with all of this. Not trying tell people how to feel, I just find it weird that they feel that way. Or maybe...... I'm the weird one :|
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Let's see. For one thing, I've always preferred Sherinian to Rudess, largely for the reasons he tweeted. Yet tweeting them strikes me as a dick move. Just because you're right doesn't mean you should actually make a point to tell people.
His tweets seem to have taken a page from the Roger Waters playbook. In his recent tour Roger had nothing whatsoever to say about Trump, yet his show was widely regarded as nonstop Trump-bashing. What he did was provide idiotic quotes and some footage of recent events and let people fill in the blanks on their own. If you see footage of people getting blown up by drones and associate it with Trump, then he was successful. Sherinian tweets no more whiny, breath vocals and the first thing people do is claim he's bashing JLB. Well done, dude. That's how you troll.
On the bright side, given his preference for echo-chambers, Portnoy's probably real close to locking his own band's thread on his own forum. :rollin
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But 'no cheese' comments about DT from the lord of lava lamps? Nah...
But - just asking - why then do you assume he's being a truthful hypocrite, instead of cheekily funny? It may not be YOUR humor (it really isn't mine, though I get it, and it's similar to the type of humor my college friends and I engage in) but it's still just as likely to be humor as the alternative.
Because he's promoting Sons of Apollo while taking digs at other people. It doesn't matter if it's DT or The Nuge, that's not an effective method of good marketing, simply put. We're having a conversation about this. That should say quite a bit right there about how appropriate (or not) it is.
EXACTLY. Derek doesn't tweet that, and we likely aren't talking about SOA, period. I'd say pretty effective.
Bosk is, of course, correct: whether someone is offended or put off or whatever is up to them. But part of it is this need to always look at things through YOUR lenses. What Derek intends is not always what I would intend. Different people do things different ways. Gene Simmons is a great example; for all that is said (bad) about him, and all the times he's put his foot in his mouth, he's still worth hundreds of millions of dollars, still sells out arenas without an album, and is in the RnRHoF. And how many of those incidents do we remember?
It's just incredibly childish. I mean, he's in his 50s, for goodness' sake! He should be past that now.
It's childish if he means it the way you think he means it.
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Well, no. Childish is childish. Intent doesn't really matter.
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Well, no. Childish is childish. Intent doesn't really matter.
Indeed....
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On the bright side, given his preference for echo-chambers, Portnoy's probably real close to locking his own band's thread on his own forum. :rollin
Nah, they'll hand out bans first. "Guys, from now on anybody hyper-sensitively over-reacting to comments posted on the internet will be permabanned from the Forum"
That was actually part of the wider irony I didn't get into in my posts over there (didn't want to hurry along the inevitable mod warnings). Remember the Labrie tour thread that got deleted, due to a rash, out-of-context and therefore totally misunderstood reading of an online comment James had made? Yet apparently everyone should now chill and not pay attention to things you read online unless you have omniscient awareness of how, when and why it was written.
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Well, no. Childish is childish. Intent doesn't really matter.
I'm not sure I agree with that.
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On the bright side, given his preference for echo-chambers, Portnoy's probably real close to locking his own band's thread on his own forum. :rollin
Nah, they'll hand out bans first. "Guys, from now on anybody hyper-sensitively over-reacting to comments posted on the internet will be permabanned from the Forum"
That was actually part of the wider irony I didn't get into in my posts over there (didn't want to hurry along the inevitable mod warnings). Remember the Labrie tour thread that got deleted, due to a rash, out-of-context and therefore totally misunderstood reading of an online comment James had made? Yet apparently everyone should now chill and not pay attention to things you read online unless you have omniscient awareness of how, when and why it was written.
Now, for the first time ever, I'm sorry Wey's not still running that place. He'd have banned two thirds of the members by now, leaving MP's 8 biggest fans and two guys who've been on vacation.
The irony is thick, though.
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Gene Simmons is a great example; for all that is said (bad) about him, and all the times he's put his foot in his mouth, he's still worth hundreds of millions of dollars, still sells out arenas without an album, and is in the RnRHoF. And how many of those incidents do we remember?
Well, I remember quite a few because I don't listen to his music, and there are always articles of him putting his foot in his mouth on Ultimate-Guitar, so there's that. I remember one from just last week where he said guitarists aren't artists, and how he's still rambling on about the devil horns' trademark. I remember an incident with Sebastian Bach (from Bach's mouth) in which Gene wouldn't sell Bach one of like 30 cell phone covers on Gene's kitchen counter because they weren't on the market yet even though Bach himself offered like 4 times their value or something and Gene got upset by it. He could be worth millions, but that doesn't make him likable. Or successful, depending on your definition and metrics of success.
I really just wish Derek would show us some of his playing on the record. For the umpteenth time: promote your material by showing us what you've created, after all, we're here for art, not silly infantile banter.
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On the bright side, given his preference for echo-chambers, Portnoy's probably real close to locking his own band's thread on his own forum. :rollin
Nah, they'll hand out bans first. "Guys, from now on anybody hyper-sensitively over-reacting to comments posted on the internet will be permabanned from the Forum"
That was actually part of the wider irony I didn't get into in my posts over there (didn't want to hurry along the inevitable mod warnings). Remember the Labrie tour thread that got deleted, due to a rash, out-of-context and therefore totally misunderstood reading of an online comment James had made? Yet apparently everyone should now chill and not pay attention to things you read online unless you have omniscient awareness of how, when and why it was written.
That Portnoy read on Blabbermouth of all places. His apology was good though. I think it was "I apologize to James for believing the out of context headline." I'm surprised James didn't call him up that moment and say "Mike, all is forgiven! We want you back in the band!" :lol
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But 'no cheese' comments about DT from the lord of lava lamps? Nah...
But - just asking - why then do you assume he's being a truthful hypocrite, instead of cheekily funny? It may not be YOUR humor (it really isn't mine, though I get it, and it's similar to the type of humor my college friends and I engage in) but it's still just as likely to be humor as the alternative.
Using this logic, regarding these supposed (FAKE) rips on Portnoy by LaBrie (that you never posted links for...BIG SHOCK), we could just say that they were James being funny, and if you didn't get it, that is your fault for not understanding his sense of humor. See how that works?
As for the DS tweets, getting offended by them seems rather silly, but I can see them being very oft-putting, and I can see some not wanting to support them financially now (see: downloading the record instead of buying it).
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Well people can feel what they like, but I find it amusing that so many get there feelings hurt over what one band member says about another band member of a different band. It seems like a few here now are not going to buy the SOA album because of it? I mean really? Only because Derek and Mike have taken shots at DT? I mean it should be about the music. If you're not going to buy the cd at least don't buy it for a good reason, like the music totally sucks! I would be fine with that. I mean I am a huge Metallica fan, but I'm also a fan of Slayer and Megadeth and both of those bands have talked major shit about Metallica. It never made me stop being a fan of either band. If anything I think the shit talking is hilarious. I'm a fan of the music. I could careless about the artists. As long as they put out music I enjoy that is all I care about. Just my 2 pennies, whatever.
The music/movie/book could be the greatest thing in the history of time but if the artists who made them abuse animals or pollute the planet I'm not supporting them. Just like people might not buy clothes produced using child labor, who cares as long as the clothes are great, right? Please.
I stopped supporting MP a long time ago cuz of his totally shit attitude and what sucks is that I want to support the other people he's with but, by association, I don't, so it hurts the people around him as well.
Also, what kind of a person is MP anyway to say so many shitty things to people he was basically family with for most of his life? As soon as they didn't give in to his demands he turned on them and just will not STFU about it.
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That last DS tweet makes me really believe they are watching what goes on in this thread, and DTF.
And trolling the fuck out of it.
Why else would they make those tweets, especially after that post about DTF?
Glad I don't have Twitter so all I know is what you guys post. I don't care either.
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And now Billy is getting in on it. I had to laugh at his :lol It's true
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And now Billy is getting in on it. I had to laugh at his :lol It's true
What did Billy say?
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And now Billy is getting in on it. I had to laugh at his :lol It's true
What did Billy say?
Feeling dumb, but I read that on MP's forum and forgot to check to see if it was real. It was a joke post, but the problem was felt like it was a real tweet. Something like you can actually hear the bass on our album or something along those lines. I had a good laugh now, but felt dumb.
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You don't need Twitter, if You are DTF member ;D Serious, Twitter isn't so popular here in Poland, of course it's available in it's fullness, but from what did I know and what I see, Polish people prefer FB than Twitter. And it's good according to what's going on it... I really don't care. If the music will be satisfying, it's all that matters.
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Jeff Scott Soto hitting some high notes...........
https://youtu.be/1fv081csf0g?t=476
He sounds awesome.
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Well people can feel what they like, but I find it amusing that so many get there feelings hurt over what one band member says about another band member of a different band. It seems like a few here now are not going to buy the SOA album because of it? I mean really? Only because Derek and Mike have taken shots at DT? I mean it should be about the music. If you're not going to buy the cd at least don't buy it for a good reason, like the music totally sucks! I would be fine with that. I mean I am a huge Metallica fan, but I'm also a fan of Slayer and Megadeth and both of those bands have talked major shit about Metallica. It never made me stop being a fan of either band. If anything I think the shit talking is hilarious. I'm a fan of the music. I could careless about the artists. As long as they put out music I enjoy that is all I care about. Just my 2 pennies, whatever.
The music/movie/book could be the greatest thing in the history of time but if the artists who made them abuse animals or pollute the planet I'm not supporting them. Just like people might not buy clothes produced using child labor, who cares as long as the clothes are great, right? Please.
I stopped supporting MP a long time ago cuz of his totally shit attitude and what sucks is that I want to support the other people he's with but, by association, I don't, so it hurts the people around him as well.
Also, what kind of a person is MP anyway to say so many shitty things to people he was basically family with for most of his life? As soon as they didn't give in to his demands he turned on them and just will not STFU about it.
But your "shitty attitude" is another man's sense of humor, or grit, or perseverance. I think for me the real head-scratcher is as it always is: there doesn't seem to be any room for alternate interpretations. The mantra is (or was) "take things on their face, with no need for context or 'other information' (as several people close to Mike have repeatedly said there is more to the DT story than has been revealed in public)". Fair enough, you get to decide what facts you incorporate and which you don't. But increasingly, it's not about "taking things on their face", it's "take things as I interpret them". I can do that for myself, thanks.
As for your last sentence, well, again, that's your interpretation, but since you weren't in the room, you have to accept that it is but one interpretation and likely not the correct one.
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But 'no cheese' comments about DT from the lord of lava lamps? Nah...
But - just asking - why then do you assume he's being a truthful hypocrite, instead of cheekily funny? It may not be YOUR humor (it really isn't mine, though I get it, and it's similar to the type of humor my college friends and I engage in) but it's still just as likely to be humor as the alternative.
Using this logic, regarding these supposed (FAKE) rips on Portnoy by LaBrie (that you never posted links for...BIG SHOCK), we could just say that they were James being funny, and if you didn't get it, that is your fault for not understanding his sense of humor. See how that works?
As for the DS tweets, getting offended by them seems rather silly, but I can see them being very oft-putting, and I can see some not wanting to support them financially now (see: downloading the record instead of buying it).
BINGO. Honestly I agree, totally. I'm not offended by his comments, but this record has gone from an automatic buy to a "I'll probably just listen to it on Spotify" album because his comments have simply turned me off to the band.
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Well people can feel what they like, but I find it amusing that so many get there feelings hurt over what one band member says about another band member of a different band. It seems like a few here now are not going to buy the SOA album because of it? I mean really? Only because Derek and Mike have taken shots at DT? I mean it should be about the music. If you're not going to buy the cd at least don't buy it for a good reason, like the music totally sucks! I would be fine with that. I mean I am a huge Metallica fan, but I'm also a fan of Slayer and Megadeth and both of those bands have talked major shit about Metallica. It never made me stop being a fan of either band. If anything I think the shit talking is hilarious. I'm a fan of the music. I could careless about the artists. As long as they put out music I enjoy that is all I care about. Just my 2 pennies, whatever.
The music/movie/book could be the greatest thing in the history of time but if the artists who made them abuse animals or pollute the planet I'm not supporting them. Just like people might not buy clothes produced using child labor, who cares as long as the clothes are great, right? Please.
Lets not compare animal cruelty or child labor to smack talk. It's not that serious. In sports athletes talk shit to each other all the time. It's not a crime.
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Using this logic, regarding these supposed (FAKE) rips on Portnoy by LaBrie (that you never posted links for...BIG SHOCK), we could just say that they were James being funny, and if you didn't get it, that is your fault for not understanding his sense of humor. See how that works?
Don't play that. You know full well this has been discussed here before, and they WERE posted, some by me, some by others, and there was a fair disagreement over them. I post enough here that I don't have to repeat others' posts to gain some faux credibility with you. I acknowledged then that there could be different alternative explanations, and that was the very point. I'm not at all saying that MY opinions matter any more than anyone else, that I know what James was thinking (or not), or that I get to play under different rules. I'm saying that NONE OF US has the information necessary to draw the conclusions that some of us are drawing (not me, as I am saying, for the most part, that we don't know). I was pointing out how some here decide that BECAUSE it's Mike talking (and now Derek) it's interpreted in the worst possible light out of the gate, and if it's a member of DT, BECAUSE it's DT talking it's interpreted in the best possible light out of the gate. There's nothing to "see" about "how that works", thank you.
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Much ado about not much to me. SOA acting like a kid tugging on his mom's apron...mom..mom..mom.
BUT it could be fun. I wish JP would tweet a pic of himself doing a double biceps pose with #sonsofzeus.
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Much ado about not much to me. SOA acting like a kid tugging on his mom's apron...mom..mom..mom.
BUT it could be fun. I wish JP would tweet a pic of himself doing a double biceps pose with #sonsofzeus.
:lol
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Jeff Scott Soto hitting some high notes...........
https://youtu.be/1fv081csf0g?t=476
He sounds awesome.
He sounds like a generic metal singer. Can't stand his voice.
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generic metal singer
??? What does that even mean?
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Jeff Scott Soto hitting some high notes...........
https://youtu.be/1fv081csf0g?t=476
He sounds awesome.
He sounds like a generic metal singer. Can't stand his voice.
I think he sounds like an AOR singer more than a metal singer....
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generic metal singer
??? What does that even mean?
Sorry, I just meant the tone of his voice sounds very generic. I feel like I've heard it a million times. I find nothing unique about it. Just your typical "I'm gonna sing with grit". I mean, people bash Labrie all day long, but at the end of the day no one else sounds like him, so when you hear him you KNOW it's DT. But this guy is pretty much forgettable to me. Just the way I feel about it. Not sure if anyone else agrees or not, but I don't really care either way. :lol
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generic metal singer
??? What does that even mean?
Sorry, I just meant the tone of his voice sounds very generic. I feel like I've heard it a million times. I find nothing unique about it. Just your typical "I'm gonna sing with grit". I mean, people bash Labrie all day long, but at the end of the day no one else sounds like him, so when you hear him you KNOW it's DT. But this guy is pretty much forgettable to me. Just the way I feel about it. Not sure if anyone else agrees or not, but I don't really care either way. :lol
Maybe that's what Prog actually needs. I find what turns me off from many prog bands is the vocals, usually because they are more distinct. But a more "generic" approach, to something that won't turn so many people off may be a good idea.
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LaBrie's voice was one of the catalysts for me being as big a DT fan as I was. I do not like WDADU, and always thought it was LaBrie as much as anything that gave DT it's unique sound and set them apart.
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LaBrie's voice was one of the catalysts for me being as big a DT fan as I was. I do not like WDADU, and always thought it was LaBrie as much as anything that gave DT it's unique sound and set them apart.
That's not the first time I've heard that and I do wonder if DT would have had a different career with a different singer. I've always been partial to Chris Cintron, but LaBrie in his prime and even today has a unique voice.
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I also love Labrie's unique voice, but for me, that's an exception, not the norm. I've also known a few people who were turned off from DT just by the vocals alone.
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generic metal singer
??? What does that even mean?
Sorry, I just meant the tone of his voice sounds very generic. I feel like I've heard it a million times. I find nothing unique about it. Just your typical "I'm gonna sing with grit". I mean, people bash Labrie all day long, but at the end of the day no one else sounds like him, so when you hear him you KNOW it's DT. But this guy is pretty much forgettable to me. Just the way I feel about it. Not sure if anyone else agrees or not, but I don't really care either way. :lol
I'll back this. What you described above are basically the reasons I'm not a big Soto fan. He's clearly a good singer, but his material has typically been pretty forgettable for me personally.
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JSS has much more 'soul' in his voice than your run of the mill generic metal singer. It sounds different, and that's a good thing to me. Also, he's been around forever, since before power/prog metal was a thing.
The thing missing from most prog metal for me is the songs. It's the reason I love DT - there are real songs in all the musical wanking. I'm hoping Jeff brings melody to the table in SoA.
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Well now we did it. Nippett just posted this over at the MP forum
Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread.
The usual suspects can tell on me if you like but I think tattle telling is also not allowed there.
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JSS has much more 'soul' in his voice than your run of the mill generic metal singer. It sounds different, and that's a good thing to me. Also, he's been around forever, since before power/prog metal was a thing.
The thing missing from most prog metal for me is the songs. It's the reason I love DT - there are real songs in all the musical wanking. I'm hoping Jeff brings melody to the table in SoA.
I like Soto's voice as well. I think it was a good choice to get him for the band.
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Well now we did it. Nippett just posted this over at the MP forum
Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread.
The usual suspects can tell on me if you like but I think tattle telling is also not allowed there.
I suspect the bottom line is that the handful of people here - and there - taking umbrage at Derek's tweets will have virtually no impact on Sons of Apollo's success or otherwise. We all tend to think we represent the masses but the truth is we don't. Very few members of either DT's or MP's fanbase bother taking part in discussion forums. The majority will be completely oblivious to the shit storm that some believe to be raging.
PS - MP.com's juvenile treatment of its members is pathetic. I don't care if it's coming from MP, Nippett or Painted Skies. It's pathetic.
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JSS has much more 'soul' in his voice than your run of the mill generic metal singer. It sounds different, and that's a good thing to me. Also, he's been around forever, since before power/prog metal was a thing.
The thing missing from most prog metal for me is the songs. It's the reason I love DT - there are real songs in all the musical wanking. I'm hoping Jeff brings melody to the table in SoA.
I don't buy the one dimensional thing with JSS either - he is/was one of the most versatile singers in rock. He has lost something in recent times , as happens to most singers as they age (and he needs a good songwriting partner ), but very few singers could do his "gritty" tone with Malmsteen and at the same time sing the smooth AOR stuff he's done , not to mention funk etc......
Neal Schon chose him (albeit briefly) to sing lead for Journey . How many generic metal singers could pull that off?
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Well now we did it. Nippett just posted this over at the MP forum
Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread.
:facepalm:
Beyond ridiculous
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Maybe because I've never been over there, but I don't see why anyone would be chilling in such a closed environment forum.
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Maybe because I've never been over there, but I don't see why anyone would be chilling in such a closed environment forum.
It used to be a fabulous place to hang out.
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Maybe because I've never been over there, but I don't see why anyone would be chilling in such a closed environment forum.
It used to be a fabulous place to hang out.
Yeah, it was pretty sick for a while... until that damned Avenged Sevenfold led him on and then kicked him to the curb after he had already put out his press release. :lol
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PS - MP.com's juvenile treatment of its members is pathetic. I don't care if it's coming from MP, Nippett or Painted Skies. It's pathetic.
Perhaps it's finally dawned on MP that all that thinly-veiled mockery Derek is throwing at Dream Theater - the cheesy fantasy lyrics (In The Presence of Enemies, for example), the flights of instrumental wankery (A Rite of Passage, for example), the high wailing vocals (pick an album) - all happened while Portnoy was producer, decision-maker and, by his words, sole captain of the ship. In essence Derek is ridiculing his new bandleader's piss-poor decisions*. I've been wondering how long it will take MP to realise this.
That was the point I was making to you, Stadler (I can't reply to you over there now so I'll post it here because I know you'll read it). If this is simply 'harmless banter between friends', then Derek should keep it that way. I'm sure he has Jordan's e-mail address. Just drop him a letter saying "Hi Jordan, long time no see. I'm in a new band and our album doesn't contain any of that cheesy lame shit Portnoy insisted on producing after he kicked me out. The wife and kids say hello. Hope to see you in the New Year, take care mate!" But no, he chose to put it on Twitter. He wants to receive a public reaction. He got one. You are big on taking responsibility for the things we do (rightly so of course). If Derek is receiving a negative reaction from some people, it's on him. If his aim was 'banter between friends' which wasn't meant to be interpreted by people like us (who "don't have all the facts"), then for fuck's sake don't put it on Twitter. Keep it 'between friends'.
*'piss-poor' according to Derek, that is. I happen to love the cheese and the wanking (there's a sentence I don't often write), and if there's 'humour' in Derek's tweets, it's the irony of deriding musical traits which his new boss was proudly responsible for.
Here's an experiment for you Stadler, since you recently signed up to Twitter - under Derek's 'no cheesy lyrics' tweet, go post a gif from the Systematic Chaos DVD of Portnoy joyfully singing along to the 'Dark Master' verses, see how long it takes him to block you, and then we'll continue the discussion about having a sense of humour about internet banter.
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Well now we did it. Nippett just posted this over at the MP forum
Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread.
The usual suspects can tell on me if you like but I think tattle telling is also not allowed there.
I suspect the bottom line is that the handful of people here - and there - taking umbrage at Derek's tweets will have virtually no impact on Sons of Apollo's success or otherwise. We all tend to think we represent the masses but the truth is we don't. Very few members of either DT's or MP's fanbase bother taking part in discussion forums. The majority will be completely oblivious to the shit storm that some believe to be raging.
PS - MP.com's juvenile treatment of its members is pathetic. I don't care if it's coming from MP, Nippett or Painted Skies. It's pathetic.
It's true, although I don't like the comments, I think if I asked 2000 people who DT are I would be lucky to find one person. Even less who know who Derek Sherinian is.
PS I agree. I saw your post on the MP site and I think it must come from MP
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PS - MP.com's juvenile treatment of its members is pathetic. I don't care if it's coming from MP, Nippett or Painted Skies. It's pathetic.
Perhaps it's finally dawned on MP that all that thinly-veiled mockery Derek is throwing at Dream Theater - the cheesy fantasy lyrics (In The Presence of Enemies, for example), the flights of instrumental wankery (A Rite of Passage, for example), the high wailing vocals (pick an album) - all happened while Portnoy was producer, decision-maker and, by his words, sole captain of the ship. In essence Derek is ridiculing his new bandleader's piss-poor decisions*. I've been wondering how long it will take MP to realise this.
That was the point I was making to you, Stadler (I can't reply to you over there now so I'll post it here because I know you'll read it). If this is simply 'harmless banter between friends', then Derek should keep it that way. I'm sure he has Jordan's e-mail address. Just drop him a letter saying "Hi Jordan, long time no see. I'm in a new band and our album doesn't contain any of that cheesy lame shit Portnoy insisted on producing after he kicked me out. The wife and kids say hello. Hope to see you in the New Year, take care mate!" But no, he chose to put it on Twitter. He wants to receive a public reaction. He got one. You are big on taking responsibility for the things we do (rightly so of course). If Derek is receiving a negative reaction from some people, it's on him. If his aim was 'banter between friends' which wasn't meant to be interpreted by people like us (who "don't have all the facts", then for fuck's sake don't put it on Twitter. Keep it between friends.
*'piss-poor' according to Derek, that is. I happen to love the cheese and the wanking (there's a sentence I don't often write), and if there's 'humour' in Derek's tweets, it's the irony of deriding musical traits which his new boss was proudly responsible for.
Here's an experiment for you Stadler, since you recently signed up to Twitter - under Derek's 'no cheesy lyrics' tweet, go post a gif from the Systematic Chaos DVD of Portnoy joyfully singing along to the 'Dark Master' verses, see how long it takes him to block you, and then we'll continue the discussion about having a sense of humour about internet banter.
I am going to print this post out, mail it to you so you can sign it then frame it.
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PS - MP.com's juvenile treatment of its members is pathetic. I don't care if it's coming from MP, Nippett or Painted Skies. It's pathetic.
Here's an experiment for you Stadler, since you recently signed up to Twitter - under Derek's 'no cheesy lyrics' tweet, go post a gif from the Systematic Chaos DVD of Portnoy joyfully singing along to the 'Dark Master' verses, see how long it takes him to block you, and then we'll continue the discussion about having a sense of humour about internet banter.
If I could find that .gif I would post it to their Twitter accounts.
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And thank fuck for Dave_Manchester once again, telling it, dare I say it, like it is.
I've had a few discussions with those mods. I remember them deleting a couple of JLB threads I myself made, and them giving me flack about it after I complained about them magically disappearing with absolutely no notice or PM or anything. They deleted another post of mine in that thread right after Nippett's (I'll assume it was him). Whether it's their call or Mike's in the end, it's absurd. A forum is a place for discussion, you shouldn't be so partial to one-sided conversation. No, I don't at all think a few people discussing Derek's tweets online is going to make much of a difference at all, but it is a topic of discussion and pretty much the only one going on since they haven't released another single. To put everything on ice like that is just silly.
I say this as a resident Nerd of the Net who has had maybe a few stiff drinks this evening, but c'mon. You gotta allow for honest, open discussion -- but that probably died when Mike left DT. The shitstorm over on his forum at that time could've gone toe to toe with hurricane Irma.
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Honestly I'm at the point where I don't really care about this stuff anymore. Yeah, it was funny to rip on the tryhardness of some of the tweets to get competition with DT, but now it's just like "Oh, Derek said a mean thing on Twitter, what else is new?". I get criticism & all, but I don't really get why such a minor aspect of the band (as dumb as it may be) has been the leading factor in the discussion for this long.
In other news, I'm thinking about pre-ordering a physical copy later today (edit: done). I loved the single, so I'm confident the albums gonna be a treat to listen to. :metal
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As for your last sentence, well, again, that's your interpretation, but since you weren't in the room, you have to accept that it is but one interpretation and likely not the correct one.
Why do you keep saying this? All we have to go by is by the way MP represents himself which is mostly shit towards DT so how else are we supposed to interpret the situation?
How about you, I don't know you, you might be a billionaire or homeless, a doctor or an Olympic athlete, I have no idea, but the way you *represent yourself* here is as a person I would definitely not want to get to know.
I'm getting tired of saying this but what we *do not* know or what *really* is happening DOES NOT MATTER. MP is acting like a petulant child (and dragging others into it) and DT is acting like adults just trying to make music and live their lives so based on these attitudes each party is representing how else can Joe Public interpret the situation? MP's attitude is DIRECTLY hurting MP and his projects, as some of us have already indicated, we don't want to support someone who's acting like this towards people he was best friends/family with for so many years and then that affects the people MP works with.
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... We all tend to think we represent the masses but the truth is we don't. Very few members of either DT's or MP's fanbase bother taking part in discussion forums. The majority will be completely oblivious to the shit storm that some believe to be raging...
I don't think that there are "masses" that know of this group and their oncoming record or would be interested in it. Surely a handful of DTF-members deciding not to buy the record don't make a difference, but either way Sons Of Apollo will be lucky to sell a thousand units or two in the first week. Prog is a niche and this kind of prog is an even smaller niche.
JSS has much more 'soul' in his voice than your run of the mill generic metal singer. It sounds different, and that's a good thing to me. Also, he's been around forever, since before power/prog metal was a thing.
The thing missing from most prog metal for me is the songs. It's the reason I love DT - there are real songs in all the musical wanking. I'm hoping Jeff brings melody to the table in SoA.
I don't buy the one dimensional thing with JSS either - he is/was one of the most versatile singers in rock. He has lost something in recent times , as happens to most singers as they age (and he needs a good songwriting partner ), but very few singers could do his "gritty" tone with Malmsteen and at the same time sing the smooth AOR stuff he's done , not to mention funk etc......
Neal Schon chose him (albeit briefly) to sing lead for Journey . How many generic metal singers could pull that off?
In my opinion Soto's not bad, although he hasn't really convinced me yet. But a lot of the stuff I heard from him sounds kinda generic, and that Neil chose him for Journey was (imo) a huge mistake. I've heard a couple of bootlegs from that time and Jeff, while singing good, didn't fit at all with those songs.
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... We all tend to think we represent the masses but the truth is we don't. Very few members of either DT's or MP's fanbase bother taking part in discussion forums. The majority will be completely oblivious to the shit storm that some believe to be raging...
I don't think that there are "masses" that know of this group and their oncoming record or would be interested in it. Surely a handful of DTF-members deciding not to buy the record don't make a difference, but either way Sons Of Apollo will be lucky to sell a thousand units or two in the first week. Prog is a niche and this kind of prog is an even smaller niche.
JSS has much more 'soul' in his voice than your run of the mill generic metal singer. It sounds different, and that's a good thing to me. Also, he's been around forever, since before power/prog metal was a thing.
The thing missing from most prog metal for me is the songs. It's the reason I love DT - there are real songs in all the musical wanking. I'm hoping Jeff brings melody to the table in SoA.
I don't buy the one dimensional thing with JSS either - he is/was one of the most versatile singers in rock. He has lost something in recent times , as happens to most singers as they age (and he needs a good songwriting partner ), but very few singers could do his "gritty" tone with Malmsteen and at the same time sing the smooth AOR stuff he's done , not to mention funk etc......
Neal Schon chose him (albeit briefly) to sing lead for Journey . How many generic metal singers could pull that off?
In my opinion Soto's not bad, although he hasn't really convinced me yet. But a lot of the stuff I heard from him sounds kinda generic, and that Neil chose him for Journey was (imo) a huge mistake. I've heard a couple of bootlegs from that time and Jeff, while singing good, didn't fit at all with those songs.
It's funny that Schon was brought up because his recent social media posts have been extremely similar to what I would expect from MP. :lol :lol :lol
Also bl5150 basically just said that Soto is so good that he was the singer of journey for five minutes until they realized he couldn't cut it.
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Also bl5150 basically just said that Soto is so good that he was the singer of journey for five minutes until they realized he couldn't cut it.
If you say so.
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So here's something I've been pondering.
Is Mike *really* the leader of Sons of Apollo?
So far we know he helped put the band together and the word Apollo was something he thought would make a good bandname for some random band down the line.
Derek called it Sons of Apollo. Derek has been involved in all of the songwriting and may actually be the main songwriter (I'm sure Mike was involved in a lot of it too). Derek also was a much more active producer than MP because he was in the studio 100% of the time while Mike was away dealing with one of his 87 bands. In fact, Derek was so involved that Soto and him got into a big disagreement/fight over how the vocals were recorded. They joked about almost coming to blows. While that may have been an exaggeration (they were both laughing when it was said), in other places there was an indication that it did get very heated.
Then of course there's the tweets.
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... We all tend to think we represent the masses but the truth is we don't. Very few members of either DT's or MP's fanbase bother taking part in discussion forums. The majority will be completely oblivious to the shit storm that some believe to be raging...
I don't think that there are "masses" that know of this group and their oncoming record or would be interested in it. Surely a handful of DTF-members deciding not to buy the record don't make a difference, but either way Sons Of Apollo will be lucky to sell a thousand units or two in the first week. Prog is a niche and this kind of prog is an even smaller niche.
Yup, it's definitely not a matter of the masses or overestimating the reach of this forum, for me it's a matter of taking a pre-assembled, pre-hyped, pre-packaged, pre-whatever group of fans who were ready to buy a record and turn a segment of them off by childish behavior.
And I agree about the niche comment, frankly this record might be really, really cool, but it'll probably still only move a couple thousand units, so even if this behavior only ticked off a small amount of people and caused them to not buy the record, that small amount of people could still be a worthwhile percentage of their overall sales.
So here's something I've been pondering.
Is Mike *really* the leader of Sons of Apollo?
So far we know he helped put the band together and the word Apollo was something he thought would make a good bandname for some random band down the line.
Derek called it Sons of Apollo. Derek has been involved in all of the songwriting and may actually be the main songwriter (I'm sure Mike was involved in a lot of it too). Derek also was a much more active producer than MP because he was in the studio 100% of the time while Mike was away dealing with one of his 87 bands. In fact, Derek was so involved that Soto and him got into a big disagreement/fight over how the vocals were recorded. They joked about almost coming to blows. While that may have been an exaggeration (they were both laughing when it was said), in other places there was an indication that it did get very heated.
Then of course there's the tweets.
Honestly, I think the idea of having one guy steering the ship in a band is a little silly, bands by their very nature should be collaborative and full of compromise (to each other). That said, my read of the situation is close to yours. DS seems like the JP of this group basically.
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As for your last sentence, well, again, that's your interpretation, but since you weren't in the room, you have to accept that it is but one interpretation and likely not the correct one.
Why do you keep saying this? All we have to go by is by the way MP represents himself which is mostly shit towards DT so how else are we supposed to interpret the situation?
I keep saying it because it's TRUE. You DON'T have to limit yourself to the "way MP represents himself". That's your choice. Own it. We've got three people here that I know for a fact have regular, non-fan conversations with Mike on a fairly regular basis, and have clearly stated that "you do not know the whole story", and yet you ignore that. WILLFULLY. And you're wrong on the second part, because even if you DO "limit yourself to the way MP represents himself", why are you ignoring the recent interview where he went on - at length - about how he is in touch with three of the members, considers himself now friendly with same, and in fact, asked them to participate in the Shattered Fortress shows (they declined, citing touring requirements)? How do you reconcile "mostly shit" with "I'm friends with them" and "I asked them to play with me on stage"?
How about you, I don't know you, you might be a billionaire or homeless, a doctor or an Olympic athlete, I have no idea, but the way you *represent yourself* here is as a person I would definitely not want to get to know.
Wow, okay, nice of you to prejudge. What an open mind you have. (Though I certainly get it; no one likes to be shown they're wrong so consistently. ;) ;) :-*
I'm getting tired of saying this but what we *do not* know or what *really* is happening DOES NOT MATTER. MP is acting like a petulant child (and dragging others into it) and DT is acting like adults just trying to make music and live their lives so based on these attitudes each party is representing how else can Joe Public interpret the situation? MP's attitude is DIRECTLY hurting MP and his projects, as some of us have already indicated, we don't want to support someone who's acting like this towards people he was best friends/family with for so many years and then that affects the people MP works with.
One, of course it matters. Context is everything. Take the looting in Houston for example; some people were breaking into supermarkets for food and water because everything they owned was destroyed by Harvey. That's not important? Two, where are Mike's tweets in this (they're largely Derek's)? You can't even keep your hate straight; you're so convinced that Mike is the devil here that you're making him responsible for someone else's tweets! Three, since when are you the indicator of his fanbase? I missed that vote or election. I know for me, short of outright pedophilia, nothing the band can do will turn me off to music I like; I'm one of the biggest REM fans here and yet I find Michael Stipe tiring to the extreme. I also see, at least two to one, maybe more, people saying "preordered!" or "I can't wait!" So you're the minority (though that doesn't in and of itself invalidate your opinion).
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My take is that when MP spoke of insisting on total control over this new project, he meant more in terms of the non-musical stuff. As mikeyd23 just wrote, I think it's a similar situation to DT, where Derek (JR) and Bumblefoot (JP) do most of the composition, and MP acts as overall director/producer/arranger and handling all the extra-musical stuff. He is extremely good at doing that, one of his biggest assets to Dream Theater was the attention he paid to the 'fan experience' (individually-planned set lists, bootlegs, being very communicative with the fanbase etc).
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PS - MP.com's juvenile treatment of its members is pathetic. I don't care if it's coming from MP, Nippett or Painted Skies. It's pathetic.
Perhaps it's finally dawned on MP that all that thinly-veiled mockery Derek is throwing at Dream Theater - the cheesy fantasy lyrics (In The Presence of Enemies, for example), the flights of instrumental wankery (A Rite of Passage, for example), the high wailing vocals (pick an album) - all happened while Portnoy was producer, decision-maker and, by his words, sole captain of the ship. In essence Derek is ridiculing his new bandleader's piss-poor decisions*. I've been wondering how long it will take MP to realise this.
That was the point I was making to you, Stadler (I can't reply to you over there now so I'll post it here because I know you'll read it). If this is simply 'harmless banter between friends', then Derek should keep it that way. I'm sure he has Jordan's e-mail address. Just drop him a letter saying "Hi Jordan, long time no see. I'm in a new band and our album doesn't contain any of that cheesy lame shit Portnoy insisted on producing after he kicked me out. The wife and kids say hello. Hope to see you in the New Year, take care mate!" But no, he chose to put it on Twitter. He wants to receive a public reaction. He got one. You are big on taking responsibility for the things we do (rightly so of course). If Derek is receiving a negative reaction from some people, it's on him. If his aim was 'banter between friends' which wasn't meant to be interpreted by people like us (who "don't have all the facts"), then for fuck's sake don't put it on Twitter. Keep it 'between friends'.
*'piss-poor' according to Derek, that is. I happen to love the cheese and the wanking (there's a sentence I don't often write), and if there's 'humour' in Derek's tweets, it's the irony of deriding musical traits which his new boss was proudly responsible for.
Here's an experiment for you Stadler, since you recently signed up to Twitter - under Derek's 'no cheesy lyrics' tweet, go post a gif from the Systematic Chaos DVD of Portnoy joyfully singing along to the 'Dark Master' verses, see how long it takes him to block you, and then we'll continue the discussion about having a sense of humour about internet banter.
Not an unfair post, and for those of you that don't know, my respect for Dave is off the charts. I listen when he speaks.
But as I've said, my quibble isn't that Derek shouldn't have to take responsibility. He should. My quibble isn't that the reaction should be something it's not. You react how you react. It's a free world, relatively speaking. My quibble is that there seems to be NO possibility that it is something other than what the reactor says it is. I don't actually disagree with you; if it's harmless banter, it's pretty poorly executed. I get it, I'm not at all naïve. I just don't like the knee-jerk reactions, that it MUST be this way because I think it is. I don't get the selective ignorance of facts that we know to be true, because they don't support the preconceived narrative. Couple that with people like PetFish that aren't even pretending to be fair, or even pretending to be accurate (he seems to be attributing to Mike all the ramifications of Derek's tweets) and you have a problem.
Hell, you're talking to a guy that just went on Twitter for the first time last week, and kicking and screaming. I hate social media for this reason. I have the conversation daily with my kids: "Dad, I was on Instasnap and I said "X" and so-and-so is retwatting me and they're wrong! I tried to fix it on Snapbook, but he was wrong there too!" And I invariably say "did you pick up the phone and actually TALK to So-and-so like humans?" "Uh..." And a week later: "Did you ever wrap that up with so-and-so?" "Yeah, I saw them at Chik-fil-A; it's all cool!"
You've got people dying in stagnant water in Houston and we're arguing whether calling something - remember, he never mentioned DT specifically - "cheesy" is a mad diss.
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Sheesh. Lot of wordiness here. Look, it doesn't even matter if Derek is trying to be 'funny.' The impression it has given some of us is not a good one. *That* is what matters and what this is all about. Doesn't mean a lick of spit if it's intended to be a 'joke' - for some reason Stadler you are just so inclined to believe that this could quite possibly be true, and we're all dummies for not taking it in good spirit - some of his audience aren't amused by it. The intent doesn't matter, the impression it generates is not a good one. This can be applied to a lot of Donald Trump's tweets. How do you know his "Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd" crack isn't a jab, but a playful name? After all, he gives everyone names! Please. I know the sand is cool, but it's almost fall, so time to get your head out :)
The fallacy of relative privation is strong in your post. Yes, Houston is fucked up, and Florida will soon be a mess, too. So we can't talk about this?
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As for your last sentence, well, again, that's your interpretation, but since you weren't in the room, you have to accept that it is but one interpretation and likely not the correct one.
Why do you keep saying this? All we have to go by is by the way MP represents himself which is mostly shit towards DT so how else are we supposed to interpret the situation?
I keep saying it because it's TRUE. You DON'T have to limit yourself to the "way MP represents himself". That's your choice. Own it.
As far as I have seen, he and others who hold that opinion have "owned it," so there's no need to keep beating a dead horse. You constantly repeating the same thing and going after others for having an opinion needs to stop. It is derailing the thread and is bordering on (and often crossing into) personal attacks. You have made this same point repeatedly, so there is no need to keep repeating it unless context indicates that you something new needs to be brought to the table on the issue.
Sheesh. Lot of wordiness here. Look, it doesn't even matter if Derek is trying to be 'funny.' The impression it has given some of us is not a good one. *That* is what matters and what this is all about. Doesn't mean a lick of spit if it's intended to be a 'joke'
Exactly.
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Sheesh. Lot of wordiness here. Look, it doesn't even matter if Derek is trying to be 'funny.' The impression it has given some of us is not a good one. *That* is what matters and what this is all about. Doesn't mean a lick of spit if it's intended to be a 'joke' - for some reason Stadler you are just so inclined to believe that this could quite possibly be true, and we're all dummies for not taking it in good spirit - some of his audience aren't amused by it. The intent doesn't matter, the impression it generates is not a good one. This can be applied to a lot of Donald Trump's tweets. How do you know his "Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd" crack isn't a jab, but a playful name? After all, he gives everyone names! Please. I know the sand is cool, but it's almost fall, so time to get your head out :)
The fallacy of relative privation is strong in your post. Yes, Houston is fucked up, and Florida will soon be a mess, too. So we can't talk about this?
Of course intent matters. it all matters. It's all part of the tapestry that we are talking about. Everyone's interpretation is different; the only constant, the only thing that can be judged is the intent of the statement and the degree to which the statement matches that intent. I never said he was spot on, or that the 'funny' hit the mark. I don't find it that funny at all to be honest. I'm just arguing against the idea that somehow what one fan thinks is relevant to Derek, his intent or his approach to marketing the music.
If you don't think Derek's funny, if you don't like the approach, don't buy the record. It's that simple. But don't assume that somehow you're right and everyone else is wrong (including his band mate).
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As for your last sentence, well, again, that's your interpretation, but since you weren't in the room, you have to accept that it is but one interpretation and likely not the correct one.
Why do you keep saying this? All we have to go by is by the way MP represents himself which is mostly shit towards DT so how else are we supposed to interpret the situation?
I keep saying it because it's TRUE. You DON'T have to limit yourself to the "way MP represents himself". That's your choice. Own it.
As far as I have seen, he and others who hold that opinion have "owned it," so there's no need to keep beating a dead horse. You constantly repeating the same thing and going after others for having an opinion needs to stop. It is derailing the thread and is bordering on (and often crossing into) personal attacks. You have made this same point repeatedly, so there is no need to keep repeating it unless context indicates that you something new needs to be brought to the table on the issue.
Not sure why you're singling me out, other than I'm the only one really making the case, but so be it. It's not the first time. That doesn't mean I'm wrong, though. I'm not now nor never have "gone after someone for having an opinion", and I've been clear on that. I have, though, gone after someone for misstating clear facts. I don't see why that is wrong.
I'm being told I'm "beating a dead horse", but since I'm responding to the same wrong argument each time, I'm not sure that homicide is mine to own. I've also not personally attacked anyone; I have however, called someone out on the factual incorrectness of their own words, even after they personally attacked me (apparently, I'm not worth knowing in person, according to PetFish). As always, though, it's not my place it's not my call. I disagree but I respect it.
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Sheesh. Lot of wordiness here. Look, it doesn't even matter if Derek is trying to be 'funny.' The impression it has given some of us is not a good one. *That* is what matters and what this is all about. Doesn't mean a lick of spit if it's intended to be a 'joke' - for some reason Stadler you are just so inclined to believe that this could quite possibly be true, and we're all dummies for not taking it in good spirit - some of his audience aren't amused by it. The intent doesn't matter, the impression it generates is not a good one. This can be applied to a lot of Donald Trump's tweets. How do you know his "Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd" crack isn't a jab, but a playful name? After all, he gives everyone names! Please. I know the sand is cool, but it's almost fall, so time to get your head out :)
The fallacy of relative privation is strong in your post. Yes, Houston is fucked up, and Florida will soon be a mess, too. So we can't talk about this?
Of course intent matters. it all matters. It's all part of the tapestry that we are talking about. Everyone's interpretation is different; the only constant, the only thing that can be judged is the intent of the statement and the degree to which the statement matches that intent. I never said he was spot on, or that the 'funny' hit the mark. I don't find it that funny at all to be honest. I'm just arguing against the idea that somehow what one fan thinks is relevant to Derek, his intent or his approach to marketing the music.
If you don't think Derek's funny, if you don't like the approach, don't buy the record. It's that simple. But don't assume that somehow you're right and everyone else is wrong (including his band mate).
I am confused. Why can't we criticize his tweets?
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I am confused. Why can't we criticize his tweets?
Because we don't know his intent with the tweets... for all we know he might have tried to make friends with DT
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I am confused. Why can't we criticize his tweets?
Because we don't know his intent with the tweets... for all we know he might have tried to make friends with DT
Well in that case, no one here knows the intent of my criticism. Maybe I say I don't like it and it's childish but secretly Derek is sitting right next to me laughing with me about it, while Jordan is the other room brewing a pot of coffee.
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I am confused. Why can't we criticize his tweets?
Because we don't know his intent with the tweets... for all we know he might have tried to make friends with DT
Well in that case, no one here knows the intent of my criticism. Maybe I say I don't like it and it's childish but secretly Derek is sitting right next to me laughing with me about it, while Jordan is the other room brewing a pot of coffee.
Spot on :rollin
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As for your last sentence, well, again, that's your interpretation, but since you weren't in the room, you have to accept that it is but one interpretation and likely not the correct one.
Why do you keep saying this? All we have to go by is by the way MP represents himself which is mostly shit towards DT so how else are we supposed to interpret the situation?
I keep saying it because it's TRUE. You DON'T have to limit yourself to the "way MP represents himself". That's your choice. Own it.
As far as I have seen, he and others who hold that opinion have "owned it," so there's no need to keep beating a dead horse. You constantly repeating the same thing and going after others for having an opinion needs to stop. It is derailing the thread and is bordering on (and often crossing into) personal attacks. You have made this same point repeatedly, so there is no need to keep repeating it unless context indicates that you something new needs to be brought to the table on the issue.
Not sure why you're singling me out, other than I'm the only one really making the case, but so be it. It's not the first time. That doesn't mean I'm wrong, though. I'm not now nor never have "gone after someone for having an opinion", and I've been clear on that. I have, though, gone after someone for misstating clear facts. I don't see why that is wrong.
I'm being told I'm "beating a dead horse", but since I'm responding to the same wrong argument each time, I'm not sure that homicide is mine to own. I've also not personally attacked anyone; I have however, called someone out on the factual incorrectness of their own words, even after they personally attacked me (apparently, I'm not worth knowing in person, according to PetFish). As always, though, it's not my place it's not my call. I disagree but I respect it.
I will offer clarification, and will do so here in the thread because I think it will be helpful for the discussion in general. But any further discussion back and forth should be addressed via PM, please.
First, with regard to "singling out"--You are not the only one whose tone is crossing the line. But (1) yours are the posts that are going the farthest, at least as I perceive them; and (2) yours appear to be the catalyst for others crossing the line on this issue. That doesn't mean others don't need to watch it as well. (the last two posts, for example, come to mind--Guys, you might just be taking a playful jab at Stadler. But under the circumstances, it is just adding fuel to the fire, so please knock that off) Whenever I or the mods have to come down on someone and tell them to stop doing something, and their opinion happens to be in the minority, we get accused of "bias" or "singling out" or worse. That's just part of the job. You aren't being singled out for your viewpoint. You are being singled out because I perceive your posts to be a potential problem. And at the end of the day, when I spend so much of my free time modding a board as a free service for a band I love and a group of fellow fans, I don't need added problems. So right or wrong, I am going to put the kibosh on things that give me headaches.
Second, and related to that, I want to address the sentiment of: "since I'm responding to the same wrong argument each time, I'm not sure that homicide is mine to own." Here's the distinction as I see it: People are reacting to each new tweet, or interview, or other public statement. Every time Mike or Derek posts or says something negative, it is commented on. The substance of the posts here may be the same. But they are responding to new things. That is valid and isn't simply repetition. Your responses to that ARE the same and aren't bringing anything new to the table. Yeah, it's valid to say that context matters. But you have made that point now. Unless there is some NEW context you want to discuss, you repeating the exact same thing (albeit in different ways) doesn't add anything new to the discussion and comes across as shouting people down. Others have said that on this issue (i.e., specifically the issue of the appropriateness or inappropriateness of Mike's/Derek's public commentary) that any unknown behind-the-scenes context is irrelevant, and they have explained precisely why they feel that way. Opinions on both sides are valid. But we don't need to keep repeating them. Yes, it is adding posts and pages to the thread. But it is not adding value, and I feel it has reached a point where it is actually distracting from the conversation, which is why I am saying "enough."
Not sure what else needs to be said, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm not trying to shut down discussion on the issues and not trying to elevate one "side" over the other (although I think I have made my own opinions on the subjects in this thread known). But unless there is something new on the issue of whether the backstage context behind the public statements matters, let's ditch the shouting match over that.
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(the last two posts, for example, come to mind--Guys, you might just be taking a playful jab at Stadler. But under the circumstances, it is just adding fuel to the fire, so please knock that off)
Ok, sorry Stadler, didn't mean any harm. :) You're a good guy.
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This thread would benefit massively from some new SoA audio snippets.
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I am confused. Why can't we criticize his tweets?
Because we don't know his intent with the tweets... for all we know he might have tried to make friends with DT
Well in that case, no one here knows the intent of my criticism. Maybe I say I don't like it and it's childish but secretly Derek is sitting right next to me laughing with me about it, while Jordan is the other room brewing a pot of coffee.
One, never said not to criticize the tweets. First, that's not my place, and second, it's in the public realm, and fair game. I agree with all of you on that. Two, as to your post, you're being sarcastic (green!) but actually, I agree with you. We DON'T know. And once we - well, me in this case - finds out that you ARE sitting next to Derek, and JR is brewing the java, I need to shut the fuck up about it. PERIOD. What's good for the goose...
I deeply appreciate Bosk taking the time to explain, and I get it, I really do (and will tone it down), but in direct answer to your question (and so not, in my view, violating Bosk's not unreasonable order), I'm not on about the criticism - you may be right! - it's the next step, making judgments about Derek (and Mike) and their intent and their mindset. That's all.
(And thank you for the kind words; none of this is personal to me, though I am disappointed that PetFish somehow thinks I'm somehow not worthy of his time because I have an opinion and stick to it.)
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I can understand why some people no longer want to buy the album even if it turns out to be good. I think Sherinian's tweets are lame but they're not nearly bad enough to keep me from listening to his music and buying the stuff I like.
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I think I realize why I semi-despise this thread so much. It was a foregone conclusion that I would buy this album and give it a chance. The first song would have to be bottom tier Adrenaline Mob bad in order for me to rethink that position. So with that said all the tweets, forum bickering, and other stuff is essentially meaningless to me at this point. As Rumborak said, please give us more music to talk about. I don't think things get much better till then.
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This thread would benefit massively from some new SoA audio snippets.
Another song would be nice. But I am guessing we will not get one until a bit closer to release. October 20th simultaneously seems close and far.
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I haven't been on this forum long but, bosk, I greatly appreciate the way you talk (type?) to other users - with respect, and not nearly as much of an 'iron fist' type rule (magically disappearing posts included). I think you're being very fair.
I would like another song. I listened to Signs of the Time last night and it really didn't do much for me. I want something that will actually impress me, something with good, catchy melodies but enough 'balls and chunk' so to speak to keep things heavy. I'm thinking Soto might actually be the weak link for me - he's not bad, but I can't see him singing the type of vocal lines I gravitate towards. We'll see!
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This thread would benefit massively from some new SoA audio snippets.
Another song would be nice. But I am guessing we will not get one until a bit closer to release. October 20th simultaneously seems close and far.
Well they said soon on facebook a long time ago so 😉
Oh... and totally agree on all Kattelox wrote. Both about Bosk and SOA
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I just want new music already.
I've listen to the first song at least a dozen times and can't remember a thing about it. That says more to me than any tweets ever will. Maybe the Derek (great in DT and solo) and Mike (favorite drummer) combo caused unrealistic expectations on my part.
Look, I'm a KISS fan and Gene Simmons, Paul Stanley, Ace Frehley, and Peter Criss have said worse in print about each other than what may or may not be implied by Derek's tweets so none of this Twitter business will impact my decision to buy or not buy the album, although the next song may.
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This thread would benefit massively from some new SoA audio snippets.
We have been getting new snippets. This album is actually just spoken word tweets telling us what they aren't.
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My take is that when MP spoke of insisting on total control over this new project, he meant more in terms of the non-musical stuff. As mikeyd23 just wrote, I think it's a similar situation to DT, where Derek (JR) and Bumblefoot (JP) do most of the composition, and MP acts as overall director/producer/arranger and handling all the extra-musical stuff. He is extremely good at doing that, one of his biggest assets to Dream Theater was the attention he paid to the 'fan experience' (individually-planned set lists, bootlegs, being very communicative with the fanbase etc).
I've thought that too but at this point there isn't a whole lot to go on as far as acting as the overall director/producer. In an interview, Derek called Mike the setlist master. Mike certainly did that in DT along with naming most of the album, coming up with the idea for most of the cover art, special shows, etc. At this point there isn't really much of that.
I've always thought his status as arranger was overstated. Jordan and John and in this band's case Derek are perfectly capable of arranging the songs themselves. That isn't to say Mike hasn't contributed great ideas or had an idea for an arrangement that significantly affected the overall composition of some songs, I just am having trouble seeing Mike as the band leader at this point. Especially with how much more involved Derek is.
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To me, Signs of the Time sounds like a more progressive The Winery Dogs with keys. Ritchie and Soto have that voice which I like to call the grunge-gritty-style, Chris Cornell, Scott Weiland. Sheehans bass tone has that usual grittiness. Maybe its just too gritty of a song for me.
I'll still hear the album when its released. I'll decide wheter I'll pre-order or actually buy it based on the next song, if they release another one. I may enjoy the Instrumental Opus though.
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To me, Signs of the Time sounds like a more progressive The Winery Dogs with keys. Ritchie and Soto have that voice which I like to call the grunge-gritty-style, Chris Cornell, Scott Weiland. Sheehans bass tone has that usual grittiness. Maybe its just too gritty of a song for me.
I'll still hear the album when its released. I'll decide wheter I'll pre-order or actually buy it based on the next song, if they release another one. I may enjoy the Instrumental Opus though.
I like that. I'm stealing that. I thought Kotzen sounded exactly like Cornell (not necessarily a bad thing, though I greatly prefer Chris and his music) and it fit the music. But for me, for "prog metal", I like that soaring, melodic vocal. When I first got into DT back in '92, it was like "Steve Perry was singing for Rush or Iron Maiden" and that was the real beauty of it. To me, DT with growls was wasted talent with LaBrie in the band. I know Jeff can do it (he's done it in the past) but I hope the music allows him to add a little smoothness, a little polish to the mix.
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Well they said :soon: on facebook a long time ago so 😉
Fix'd. :biggrin:
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Honestly I find this twitter/interview stuff to be extremely mild. Many prominent celebs give each other worse on a daily basis and some of the actors/musicians/writers/whatnot I enjoy have done way, waaay worse than some silly childish (and petty) tweets. I mean, I get that people are annoyed by them and all, but overall I consider it pretty harmless.
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Honestly I find this twitter/interview stuff to be extremely mild. Many prominent celebs give each other worse on a daily basis and some of the actors/musicians/writers/whatnot I enjoy have done way, waaay worse than some silly childish (and petty) tweets. I mean, I get that people are annoyed by them and all, but overall I consider it pretty harmless.
It is harmless but what the heck, amusing to talk about. It's harmless but annoying. Although MP thinks it is so bad even the mention of DT after 2010 is banned, now criticizing people being critical of DT is banned.
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Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!"
I said "Too bad I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"
I made that comment because Nippett said
"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."
Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.
Reason: Continues to talk shit
If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.
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Using this logic, regarding these supposed (FAKE) rips on Portnoy by LaBrie (that you never posted links for...BIG SHOCK), we could just say that they were James being funny, and if you didn't get it, that is your fault for not understanding his sense of humor. See how that works?
Don't play that. You know full well this has been discussed here before, and they WERE posted, some by me, some by others, and there was a fair disagreement over them. I post enough here that I don't have to repeat others' posts to gain some faux credibility with you. I acknowledged then that there could be different alternative explanations, and that was the very point. I'm not at all saying that MY opinions matter any more than anyone else, that I know what James was thinking (or not), or that I get to play under different rules. I'm saying that NONE OF US has the information necessary to draw the conclusions that some of us are drawing (not me, as I am saying, for the most part, that we don't know). I was pointing out how some here decide that BECAUSE it's Mike talking (and now Derek) it's interpreted in the worst possible light out of the gate, and if it's a member of DT, BECAUSE it's DT talking it's interpreted in the best possible light out of the gate. There's nothing to "see" about "how that works", thank you.
Untrue.
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Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!"
I said "Too bad I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"
I made that comment because Nippett said
"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."
Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.
Reason: Continues to talk shit
If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.
:tdwn
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Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!"
I said "Too bad I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"
I made that comment because Nippett said
"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."
Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.
Reason: Continues to talk shit
If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.
You were clearly just having fun. I mean you're a larger than life personality. It's rock n roll! People need to quit being so sensitive.
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I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.
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I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.
Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many. Just try to think about if from their perspective. All the things you don't know about why you were banned, and all the things you could never know, are probably very very important.
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Honestly, I don't care about what happens at the MP website. Not sure why it really matters here either. After saying I haven't been over there before, I browsed last night as it was a late night at work and found some similar discussion to here, but much much less. Let them run the place as they see fit, it is their website, people will move on if they feel it's not an interesting community.
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I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.
Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many.
Really?
The reason (for them) behind the banning was:
Continues to talk shit
How is that it doesn't mean they didn't like what he posted?
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I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.
Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many. Just try to think about if from their perspective. All the things you don't know about why you were banned, and all the things you could never know, are probably very very important.
I get it, thank you though. I actually truly don't care. I know they are tightly wound over there, I am sure they get crap from MP knowing how tightly wound he is and I pushed a bit too much I guess.
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I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.
Just in case people don't know, I am joking. It doesn't bother me. I think it's silly I got banned but it's there site.
Their loss. :yarr
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I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.
Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many.
Really?
The reason (for them) behind the banning was:
Continues to talk shit
How is that it doesn't mean they didn't like what he posted?
I mean its just like Sherinian's tweets. There may be one very obvious and likely interpretation, but you should never accept that. Instead just think about ALL the other possible interpretations and never criticize based on your one interpretation. At least that's what I learned from this thread.
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I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.
Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many.
Really?
The reason (for them) behind the banning was:
Continues to talk shit
How is that it doesn't mean they didn't like what he posted?
I mean its just like Sherinian's tweets. There may be one very obvious and likely interpretation, but you should never accept that. Instead just think about ALL the other possible interpretations and never criticize based on your one interpretation. At least that's what I learned from this thread.
This is true! You just never know. Bill could be over there having a laugh with the MP forum moderator right now. They could actually be related. He could have been secretly paid by MP in conjunction with Jordan Rudess to drum up support for SOA. You can't really know for sure with only having facts.
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For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
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Wow, okay, nice of you to prejudge. What an open mind you have. (Though I certainly get it; no one likes to be shown they're wrong so consistently. ;) ;) :-*
Of course I'm going to judge you by what I know about you which is whatever I've seen online. How else am I supposed to judge you? What other information about you do I have?
What about Trump? I don't want to know him at all "behind the scenes" because of the way he acts and treats others.
Open mind? How can I have an open mind when all the info I have is what I know? If you can give me *all* the evidence, you seem to think there's so much behind the scenes that nobody knows, then I can "choose sides". But we don't have that information, do we? All we have is what MP shows us and he shows us that he treats friends/family like dirt if you don't do what he commands.
So, just like all I know about you is what you write on DT forums, that's all the info I have to go on and based on that I don't want to know you at all and if that hurts you, so what, maybe if you really are "cool" or "nice" or "whatever" then why represent yourself otherwise and expect any other result?
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Wow, okay, nice of you to prejudge. What an open mind you have. (Though I certainly get it; no one likes to be shown they're wrong so consistently. ;) ;) :-*
Of course I'm going to judge you by what I know about you which is whatever I've seen online. How else am I supposed to judge you? What other information about you do I have?
What about Trump? I don't want to know him at all "behind the scenes" because of the way he acts and treats others.
Open mind? How can I have an open mind when all the info I have is what I know? If you can give me *all* the evidence, you seem to think there's so much behind the scenes that nobody knows, then I can "choose sides". But we don't have that information, do we? All we have is what MP shows us and he shows us that he treats friends/family like dirt if you don't do what he commands.
So, just like all I know about you is what you write on DT forums, that's all the info I have to go on and based on that I don't want to know you at all and if that hurts you, so what, maybe if you really are "cool" or "nice" or "whatever" then why represent yourself otherwise and expect any other result?
I think perhaps you're misunderstanding what Stadler was saying. Open mind doesn't mean we need to know everything. It means taking what we see and hear with a pinch of salt because it's only part of the picture. If there is not enough information to make a meaningful judgement, then we shouldn't judge.
Interestingly enough, I disagree with Stadler when it comes to Trump, because I think we have a lot of information from a lot of different sources and it's enough to make at least a reasonable level of judgement (albeit not 100% iron-clad). But in a general sense, he's right, and I do find it frustrating the way people (in all sorts of situations, not just here) form very strong opinions on things they don't know too much about. I think it's a cultural thing in the west - many people feel they need to have an opinion on everything.
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I also love Labrie's unique voice, but for me, that's an exception, not the norm. I've also known a few people who were turned off from DT just by the vocals alone.
I'm willing to bet they're all too young to have lived through 80s rock vocals. LaBrie's type of voice wasn't even slightly atypical in the late 80s/early 90s mainstream hard rock/metal landscape and his performances on I&W and Awake are stellar. It's hard to imagine they could possibly have found a more appropriate singer at that time and I believe he was a large part of what lifted them up out of the little leagues, which is where they were with WDaDU, which was little more than a curiosity.
LaBrie's voice in the post-grunge, post New Wave Of American Heavy Metal landscape has ended up sounding like something of an anachronism, but I've always found it a bit sad that LaBrie sounded great singing some fairly metal songs on Awake but from The Glass Prison onwards DT seemed to lose the ability to tailor the writing of the vocals for heavier tracks to the singer they had rather than some mythical singer that didn't exist. Sure, someone such as Robb Flynn might've suited a stock barked metal vocal such as Constant Motion way more than LaBrie, but there's no way that kind of singer would've sounded anything other than completely out of his depth attempting something such as Octavarium, which LaBrie is simply fantastic on.
Anyway, JSS's clearly a more than capable singer but I just don't get any sense of drama from his voice. I don't think his vocals will be the sticking point for the band the way the incessant falsetto on Flying Colours was for me, but if there's the same lack of vocal hooks on the rest of the material that the opening track suffered from then I don't imagine I'll be giving it much attention.
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For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
:lol
I don't even know where to begin with this so I'll just say this: awesome false equivalency, dude!
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For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.
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For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.
But you don't know the context or other pertinent facts to the "childish" comment....*Thanks Jordan, cream and sugar please!*
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Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!"
I said "Too bad I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"
I made that comment because Nippett said
"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."
Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.
Reason: Continues to talk shit
If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.
Honest question: was it that, or the comment to Nippett that said "I wouldn't kill the messenger. You think Nippett made this call?"
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Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!"
I said "Too bad I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"
I made that comment because Nippett said
"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."
Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.
Reason: Continues to talk shit
If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.
Honest question: was it that, or the comment to Nippett that said "I wouldn't kill the messenger. You think Nippett made this call?"
I'll let bill answer, but I posted something before his that got deleted (I wrote 'Echo, echo, echo...') and perhaps that was in response to me, so it could be the first thing.
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I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.
Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many.
Really?
The reason (for them) behind the banning was:
Continues to talk shit
How is that it doesn't mean they didn't like what he posted?
I mean its just like Sherinian's tweets. There may be one very obvious and likely interpretation, but you should never accept that. Instead just think about ALL the other possible interpretations and never criticize based on your one interpretation. At least that's what I learned from this thread.
This is true! You just never know. Bill could be over there having a laugh with the MP forum moderator right now. They could actually be related. He could have been secretly paid by MP in conjunction with Jordan Rudess to drum up support for SOA. You can't really know for sure with only having facts.
Ya know, the thinly veiled sarcasm (the lowest form of humor, you know) is mildly funny and all, but it CLEARLY shows you don't have a clue (or don't care, fair enough) what anyone who doesn't agree with you has to say. You're taking it to an absurd extreme that was never intended, at least not by me (about the only one here that has maintained that we have to have an open mind).
Funny; you go to the politics threads and there are people BEGGING for others to have an open mind, and here, on this subject, it's mocked and ridiculed.
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I think MP and DS should just call the album Sweet Beats and Indiscreet Tweets.
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thinly veiled sarcasm (the lowest form of humor, you know)
Now THAT, is definitely in the eye of the beholder :biggrin:
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Wow, okay, nice of you to prejudge. What an open mind you have. (Though I certainly get it; no one likes to be shown they're wrong so consistently. ;) ;) :-*
Of course I'm going to judge you by what I know about you which is whatever I've seen online. How else am I supposed to judge you? What other information about you do I have?
Well, if you're talking about "real life" meetings, you judge based on that. For what it's worth, I'm the same person, I put on no airs, but in person? I rarely if ever talk politics, and rarely if ever "lead" the conversation. I'm a curious person, and am interested in the people I meet. If you think a conversation with me in real life is a bunch of economics statistics and a lecture about how to post and how not to post, you'd be mistaken. Not because I'm two-faced, or a p****, but because the mediums are different.
I know people hate this word (because it's sticky and complicated and grey) but because the CONTEXT is different.
What about Trump? I don't want to know him at all "behind the scenes" because of the way he acts and treats others.
Open mind? How can I have an open mind when all the info I have is what I know? If you can give me *all* the evidence, you seem to think there's so much behind the scenes that nobody knows, then I can "choose sides". But we don't have that information, do we? All we have is what MP shows us and he shows us that he treats friends/family like dirt if you don't do what he commands.
Here's where you're wrong: we have THREE (at least) people that know Mike, have dealt with him, and talked with him personally about these issues, and have said, repeatedly, that they KNOW there is more to the story, and that we don't know everything, and what is not known is material and would likely change at least some people's views. Yet... some of you continue to plead ignorance about those things and stick to your world view.
So, just like all I know about you is what you write on DT forums, that's all the info I have to go on and based on that I don't want to know you at all and if that hurts you, so what, maybe if you really are "cool" or "nice" or "whatever" then why represent yourself otherwise and expect any other result?
Well, one, "nice" and "cool" are subjective; what I think about myself is immaterial, because I can't judge objectively. Some people think Beiber and Kardashian are "cool". And two, because I present who I am. None of us are one-dimensional robots. Part of me is analytical and serious, and part of me is fun and carefree. I've learned long ago that you can't please everyone. So I choose to be around people that are interesting, open-minded, don't pre-judge, and are curious and willing to experience new things. I'm not at all "hurt", per se, because it does say far more about you than it does me. I'm not at all scared or intimidated by people that are smarter than me or that think differently than me. I learn from them. They have the same facts and yet draw different conclusions, and that FASCINATES me, because I'm not delusional that I'm right about everything. I NEED to incorporate other people's world views into mine, otherwise I'm living under a rock, and may even be delusional. Even the people I think are dicks here (and I'm being honest: there's really only one, as far as I am concerned) I want to meet out of sheer curiosity.
Which is what I'm doing here with Derek and Mike, et al. I DON'T know everything, I KNOW there's more info out there, so I withhold judgment and see where it goes. Whether Derek is "childish" or not is in the eye of the beholder, and is therefore meaningless. The best we can do is say "I don't like it when he does that".
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For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
:lol
I don't even know where to begin with this so I'll just say this: awesome false equivalency, dude!
For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.
There has indeed been plenty of fine discussion - I don't know why you would assume I was talking about all the discussion. I was referring to the passive aggressive sarcasm in the posts immediately preceding mine.
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Wow, okay, nice of you to prejudge. What an open mind you have. (Though I certainly get it; no one likes to be shown they're wrong so consistently. ;) ;) :-*
Of course I'm going to judge you by what I know about you which is whatever I've seen online. How else am I supposed to judge you? What other information about you do I have?
What about Trump? I don't want to know him at all "behind the scenes" because of the way he acts and treats others.
Open mind? How can I have an open mind when all the info I have is what I know? If you can give me *all* the evidence, you seem to think there's so much behind the scenes that nobody knows, then I can "choose sides". But we don't have that information, do we? All we have is what MP shows us and he shows us that he treats friends/family like dirt if you don't do what he commands.
So, just like all I know about you is what you write on DT forums, that's all the info I have to go on and based on that I don't want to know you at all and if that hurts you, so what, maybe if you really are "cool" or "nice" or "whatever" then why represent yourself otherwise and expect any other result?
I think perhaps you're misunderstanding what Stadler was saying. Open mind doesn't mean we need to know everything. It means taking what we see and hear with a pinch of salt because it's only part of the picture. If there is not enough information to make a meaningful judgement, then we shouldn't judge.
Interestingly enough, I disagree with Stadler when it comes to Trump, because I think we have a lot of information from a lot of different sources and it's enough to make at least a reasonable level of judgement (albeit not 100% iron-clad). But in a general sense, he's right, and I do find it frustrating the way people (in all sorts of situations, not just here) form very strong opinions on things they don't know too much about. I think it's a cultural thing in the west - many people feel they need to have an opinion on everything.
AND that "opinions matter". I blame social media for this, but in America today, "opinions" are treated with almost the same weight as "facts" (and for the record that drives me INSANE). That's really the essence of the "fake news" thing; people tweet opinions and accept them as factually solid, and it's a huge mistake. It undermines credibility, and chills meaningful discussion. This is Trump's greatest fault, in my view.
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For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
:lol
I don't even know where to begin with this so I'll just say this: awesome false equivalency, dude!
For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.
There has indeed been plenty of fine discussion - I don't know why you would assume I was talking about all the discussion. I was referring to the passive aggressive sarcasm in the posts immediately preceding mine.
Then specify -- I don't mean that as an insult or to talk down to a mod, I'm just saying, specifics matter. Your post read as if you were talking about everyone who disliked what Derek tweeted, therefore I took offense to it. At no point could I have surmised what you just clarified from that first statement.
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Well this is a first. Someone posted on MP.com "As for SOA, I saw on FB where MP said a new song is going to be released soon. Really looking forward to it!"
I said "Too bad I can't comment on that or if I like that or not, something like that"
I made that comment because Nippett said
"Very simple. No more talk about whether or not you like anyone's tweets,instagrams or FB posts.
You have a choice to your opinion but we also have a choice on if we allow it on this thread."
Your account has been banned until Friday, September 22, 2017 7:55 PM.
Reason: Continues to talk shit
If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.
Honest question: was it that, or the comment to Nippett that said "I wouldn't kill the messenger. You think Nippett made this call?"
I'll let bill answer, but I posted something before his that got deleted (I wrote 'Echo, echo, echo...') and perhaps that was in response to me, so it could be the first thing.
I don't think so because I noticed a few posts were deleted and at least at that time, that particular post wasn't deleted. Actually I was kind of sticking up for Nippett with that post. In other words, he is just doing what he is told. Unlike Bosk who doesn't have to answer to anybody.
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I also love Labrie's unique voice, but for me, that's an exception, not the norm. I've also known a few people who were turned off from DT just by the vocals alone.
I'm willing to bet they're all too young to have lived through 80s rock vocals. LaBrie's type of voice wasn't even slightly atypical in the late 80s/early 90s mainstream hard rock/metal landscape and his performances on I&W and Awake are stellar. It's hard to imagine they could possibly have found a more appropriate singer at that time and I believe he was a large part of what lifted them up out of the little leagues, which is where they were with WDaDU, which was little more than a curiosity.
Well, I think we're fighting a losing cause in trying to put things in context, since for some it doesn't matter, but think about it: LaBrie joined in, what, 1991? Who was big then:
Damn Yankees (1989)
LA Guns had a huge hit with "Never Enough" in 1989
Slaughter had a huge hit with "Fly To The Angels" in 1990
Skid Row had huge hits with "18 and Life" and "I Remember You" in 1989
Paul Stanley - in the Kiss box set, I think it was - talked about the late 80's as being a time when the music called for a more soaring, higher register vocal that taxed his limits as a singer.
LaBrie as singer was not at all a stretch, and not at all an unusual move for that time, and I think given that the music was a cross of different genres, was a brilliant move tying it all into something "recognizable".
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For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
:lol
I don't even know where to begin with this so I'll just say this: awesome false equivalency, dude!
For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.
There has indeed been plenty of fine discussion - I don't know why you would assume I was talking about all the discussion. I was referring to the passive aggressive sarcasm in the posts immediately preceding mine.
Then specify -- I don't mean that as an insult or to talk down to a mod, I'm just saying, specifics matter. Your post read as if you were talking about everyone who disliked what Derek tweeted, therefore I took offense to it. At no point could I have surmised what you just clarified from that first statement.
That's fair, I feel it was implied but appreciate I didn't specify which posts I was referring to.
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That's really the essence of the "fake news" thing; people tweet opinions and accept them as factually solid, and it's a huge mistake.
But that's not what it was originally about. This discussion is probably way off topic so I apologize, maybe we can move it elsewhere? But anyway the problem was (and is) that there IS actual fake news, but that very important point gets lost in the shuffle.
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Can this band release another new song now?
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Can this band release another new song now?
For real.
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Can this band release another new song now?
For real.
Like , hm, now. ;)
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For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
:lol
I don't even know where to begin with this so I'll just say this: awesome false equivalency, dude!
For people who are complaining about Derek being childish, you sure are acting like a bunch of spoiled kids yourselves. Knock it off.
You may be a moderator, but that doesn't mean you get to come in here and tell us to "knock it off." This has been a fine discussion. I don't see a single person here acting 'childish' whether they like Derek's comments, don't like them, or don't give a flying f about them. How about showing your users a bit more respect for using the forum as it was intended: to converse with each other. Spoiled kids? My, that's a baseless insult.
There has indeed been plenty of fine discussion - I don't know why you would assume I was talking about all the discussion. I was referring to the passive aggressive sarcasm in the posts immediately preceding mine.
^This. What arriich said should have been fairly apparent--it was the sniping and sarcasm aimed primarily at Stadler that arrich was addressing, and that is fair game. Like it or not, as a moderator, that DOES give him the right to come in here and tell you to "knock it off." One of the reasons this place functions well as a whole is because the mods have the authority to use their discretion to keep things running orderly. And even if I disagree with an individual moderator's decision, we made a decision when we first opened this place that I had the mods' backs and they had mine. So kindly follow arriich's and the others mods' instructions. If you disagree with a decision, you can contact the mod and/or me via PM to address it offline. But don't get confrontational with the mods. That is going to be a losing battle for you 100% of the time.
Honestly, I don't care about what happens at the MP website. Not sure why it really matters here either. After saying I haven't been over there before, I browsed last night as it was a late night at work and found some similar discussion to here, but much much less. Let them run the place as they see fit, it is their website, people will move on if they feel it's not an interesting community.
Exactly. Let's keep the criticism of how other websites are run away from this forum. I don't think it is good for either community to criticize how things are run on either site. If you like, or at least can tolerate how things are run there, and you want to be a member, that's cool. And that goes for any other website as well. This isn't a place to start forum wars or to criticize how the staff there choose to do things.
Again, let's keep this thread focused on discussing Sons of Appollo, please. I realize it's natural to go off topic a bit, especially when it is quiet and there is no news. But we are going too far afield into areas that are only going to cause trouble.
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New song/video coming out on the 15th of this month according to a (ahem) tweet by Derek. I'll ignore the #'s on it :)
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Duly noted, bosk, ariich, my apologies if I caused any offense. Cheers :)
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New song/video coming out on the 15th of this month according to a (ahem) tweet by Derek. I'll ignore the #'s on it :)
Yes, I saw the #'s I am over it. MP made sure that he can't be criticized over at his forum and here where it is allowed I don't care anymore. I will listen to the song but doubt I will get the album at this point. The first song is good but not worth my money. If the new song changes my mind, then so be it.
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Duly noted, bosk, ariich, my apologies if I caused any offense. Cheers :)
It's cool, it was a misunderstanding. These things happen. There are very few things I pride myself on, but fairness is one of them, so if I say something that comes across as unfair (either because of a misunderstanding, poor wording, or occasionally if I have inadvertently been genuinely unfair), I'm always happy to be asked about it, though as bosk says preferably in a less confrontational manner.
Vaguely on topic, I've been checking out some of Bumblefoot's solo material (inspired by how much I've liked him in the interviews so far) and some of it is awesome. I know it won't be to everyone's tastes, but Normal/Abnormal are particularly up my alley!
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Vaguely on topic, I've been checking out some of Bumblefoot's solo material (inspired by how much I've liked him in the interviews so far) and some of it is awesome. I know it won't be to everyone's tastes, but Normal/Abnormal are particularly up my alley!
As a guitarist I was turned on to his album, the adventures of bumblefoot which he recorded all by himself in the early 90's using some pretty dyi techniques. Absolutely insane playing on it, the tab book looks like spagetti at times. But well worth checking out for some quirky stuff ala Steve Vai's flexable.
I'd have to say even though I'm a huge fan of Dereks (playing) Bumblefoot was the main reason this band piqued my interest. He's a monster and I hope he gets to really show off on this record.
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Vaguely on topic, I've been checking out some of Bumblefoot's solo material (inspired by how much I've liked him in the interviews so far) and some of it is awesome. I know it won't be to everyone's tastes, but Normal/Abnormal are particularly up my alley!
As a guitarist I was turned on to his album, the adventures of bumblefoot which he recorded all by himself in the early 90's using some pretty dyi techniques. Absolutely insane playing on it, the tab book looks like spagetti at times. But well worth checking out for some quirky stuff ala Steve Vai's flexable.
I'd have to say even though I'm a huge fan of Dereks (playing) Bumblefoot was the main reason this band piqued my interest. He's a monster and I hope he gets to really show off on this record.
Yeah I don't really know what to expect from him on this album. I really liked Chinese Democracy, but it didn't have anything particularly special or "out-there" in the guitar department. And Bumblefoot's latest solo album was a lot more middle-of-the-road, particularly in terms of his playing (it's a fun album but definitely not as exciting as the two before).
I'll for sure check out his earlier stuff too.
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His solo stuff shows that he has incredible chops and technical ability. But his stuff with GnR shows that he can play within the context of a more traditional band and can play to the song and not just go crazy doing his own thing. That really makes it seem to me like he really brings everything to the table that a project like this needs. I am pretty optimistic.
I think the only real "obstacle" is just that he was not used to writing the way Mike and Derek (and, to a lesser degree, Billy) write, where they just jam out ideas and run with them on the spot, as revealed in the recent interview footage. But it seems like he was able to adapt to that as well. So, again, I am pretty optimistic.
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His solo stuff shows that he has incredible chops and technical ability. But his stuff with GnR shows that he can play within the context of a more traditional band and can play to the song and not just go crazy doing his own thing. That really makes it seem to me like he really brings everything to the table that a project like this needs. I am pretty optimistic.
I think the only real "obstacle" is just that he was not used to writing the way Mike and Derek (and, to a lesser degree, Billy) write, where they just jam out ideas and run with them on the spot, as revealed in the recent interview footage. But it seems like he was able to adapt to that as well. So, again, I am pretty optimistic.
Yeah, that's pretty much my feeling too.
With only one song released, from a new band with no track record (as a group, rather than individually) it's difficult to get a feel for what the album might be like in terms of balance of styles, variety, etc.
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With only one song released, from a new band with no track record (as a group, rather than individually) it's difficult to get a feel for what the album might be like in terms of balance of styles, variety, etc.
In other words, you need to hear more before making a decision? So...you're sexin' Bumblefoot...later?
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I'm sexin' everyone later.
Always.
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I will try to pick up the pieces and move on with my life.
Just because you got banned doesn't mean they didn't like what you posted. I mean, I get that it could seem that way, but that's just one interpretation of many.
Really?
The reason (for them) behind the banning was:
Continues to talk shit
How is that it doesn't mean they didn't like what he posted?
I mean its just like Sherinian's tweets. There may be one very obvious and likely interpretation, but you should never accept that. Instead just think about ALL the other possible interpretations and never criticize based on your one interpretation. At least that's what I learned from this thread.
This is true! You just never know. Bill could be over there having a laugh with the MP forum moderator right now. They could actually be related. He could have been secretly paid by MP in conjunction with Jordan Rudess to drum up support for SOA. You can't really know for sure with only having facts.
Ya know, the thinly veiled sarcasm (the lowest form of humor, you know) is mildly funny and all, but it CLEARLY shows you don't have a clue (or don't care, fair enough) what anyone who doesn't agree with you has to say. You're taking it to an absurd extreme that was never intended, at least not by me (about the only one here that has maintained that we have to have an open mind).
It was absurd long before my post and furthermore it doesn't seem like you have an open mind. Could it be that we have actually just examined the evidence and thought, "Yup. It seems to be pointed in this direction."
While sarcasm may not be to your taste, the "You just don't know" argument also seems to be one of the lowest forms of debate. Of course nobody knows. You also don't know that Derek and Mike don't hate John and Jordan's guts and are hoping their feelings are hurt. I don't think that but hey, I guess I don't know for sure.
What's actually kind of alarming though is that you apparently don't know you posted something blatantly false about James. He never said "We're happier now that Mike's gone" or whatever misquote you wrote. That's not one you can chalk up to, "Ya just don't know." We know for a fact that he never said that. At least publicly. Private conversation with family? Ok, I guess we don't know. But we have no evidence that ever happened.
So if your main argument has been repeated over and over that you can just never know, why do you all of the sudden think you know that I don't care about other peoples opinions. That's what was the most bizarre about your argument. In this instance, you clearly don't know...especially on a day where I gave a shoutout to a coworker for always being willing to debate despite our opposite opinions and always maintaining a great working relationship and friendship despite our political differences. Are you just being indignant? Sensitive? Honest question. I thought we were told not to be sensitive and yet now I'm being called names because it seems I touched a nerve. This whole time I was having fun. Again, the people that tell me not be sensitive (even though I wasn't) and we should just have fun with it (which I feel I was) have a big problem with this?
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But, but, but, 3 people here said they have inside information, and that inside information could mean that James has been mean to Portnoy, and by extension those on Team Mike!!
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But, but, but, 3 people here said they have inside information, and that inside information could mean that James has been mean to Portnoy, and by extension those on Team Mike!!
Its possible James and Mike haven't gotten over that blabbermouth headline debacle from seven years ago. 😉
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But, but, but, 3 people here said they have inside information, and that inside information could mean that James has been mean to Portnoy, and by extension those on Team Mike!!
Its possible James and Mike haven't gotten over that blabbermouth headline debacle from seven years ago. 😉
Yes that is probably why Mike hates one canadian....
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But, but, but, 3 people here said they have inside information, and that inside information could mean that James has been mean to Portnoy, and by extension those on Team Mike!!
Its possible James and Mike haven't gotten over that blabbermouth headline debacle from seven years ago.
Yes that is probably why Mike hates one canadian....
And again, I will refute that it could very well not be JLB. There are a fair amount of Canadians that people may find despicable that Portnoy could hate. Beibs, Celine Dion, Chad Kroger from Nickelback, and yes, maybe even Neil Peart after Portnoy met him at some point, etc.
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Well yes of course there is a million to one chance that he meant someone else than JLB....
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#godsofprogmetal #gamechangers #noCheeseWiz
Actually, I think this latest set of "jokes' by Sherinian is the most insulting, and the most directly aimed at DT. I would be very surprised at CheezeWiz isn't pointing to JR - given that Sherinian has been mocking cheesy keyboard sounds, apps, ipads, and finally, making this incredibly poor joke mocking JR's company's apps like Morphwiz, Samplewiz, etc.
For me personally this was the last straw actually. Fuck it, I'm not going buy their album and support this kind of asshole behaviour, or even bother to listen to their songs. Just a personal choice, I don't expect people here to agree with me.
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Well you know there is a million to one chance that Sherinian ment something else....
Definitely bad taste jokes / insults
I will however give the music a fair chance... if the next song released blows my socks of I might even preorder. But given the first song my hopes are not high...
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The music will be what matters in the end. Derek's tweets got old, boring and not even funny anymore - this isn't how I see a fair, intelligent or creative way to promote a band. It's more than cheap.
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.
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#godsofprogmetal #gamechangers #noCheeseWiz
Actually, I think this latest set of "jokes' by Sherinian is the most insulting, and the most directly aimed at DT. I would be very surprised at CheezeWiz isn't pointing to JR - given that Sherinian has been mocking cheesy keyboard sounds, apps, ipads, and finally, making this incredibly poor joke mocking JR's company's apps like Morphwiz, Samplewiz, etc.
For me personally this was the last straw actually. Fuck it, I'm not going buy their album and support this kind of asshole behaviour, or even bother to listen to their songs. Just a personal choice, I don't expect people here to agree with me.
Kinda goes against your user name 😀😀😀
I kinda know what you mean. There's no need for it and the more it goes on the more tiring it gets.
When Guns n Roses came out I loved Appetite. But as they went on, Axl's behaviour just started to piss me off and after a while I just couldn't be bothered anymore and didn't bother buying the follow up albums.
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I also love Labrie's unique voice, but for me, that's an exception, not the norm. I've also known a few people who were turned off from DT just by the vocals alone.
I'm willing to bet they're all too young to have lived through 80s rock vocals. LaBrie's type of voice wasn't even slightly atypical in the late 80s/early 90s mainstream hard rock/metal landscape and his performances on I&W and Awake are stellar. It's hard to imagine they could possibly have found a more appropriate singer at that time and I believe he was a large part of what lifted them up out of the little leagues, which is where they were with WDaDU, which was little more than a curiosity.
Well, I think we're fighting a losing cause in trying to put things in context, since for some it doesn't matter, but think about it: LaBrie joined in, what, 1991? Who was big then:
Damn Yankees (1989)
LA Guns had a huge hit with "Never Enough" in 1989
Slaughter had a huge hit with "Fly To The Angels" in 1990
Skid Row had huge hits with "18 and Life" and "I Remember You" in 1989
Paul Stanley - in the Kiss box set, I think it was - talked about the late 80's as being a time when the music called for a more soaring, higher register vocal that taxed his limits as a singer.
LaBrie as singer was not at all a stretch, and not at all an unusual move for that time, and I think given that the music was a cross of different genres, was a brilliant move tying it all into something "recognizable".
Wanted to jump in on this real quick. I don't think it's the high pitched vocals that make people say LaBrie is unique. It's just his voice. Sure, people who don't already listen to bands with high pitched vocals might find him even more different, but that's not the only reason. No one sounds like him and he doesn't sound like anyone else. I didn't grow up listening to eighties bands, but came to love Queensryche and Iron Maiden later on. And I have heard countless singers who sound like one of those two, or at least in the ball park. Or Dio. Russell Allen often sounded like Dio and the guy from Boston. LaBrie has said Steve Perry and Mercury were influences, but he doesn't sound like them. I lot of friends of mine are 80s metal people, and some had as hard a time with LaBrie as anyone else. Some like him, but they like him because he is so different. Just food for thought. It could well be that some just aren't used to the high vocals, but I don't think that's the main reason people call him different.
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With MP in the band, DT did spend a good period writing songs for a singer they didn't have. JLB was perfect for them when he joined, and I love his voice.
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For me personally this was the last straw actually. Fuck it, I'm not going buy their album and support this kind of asshole behaviour, or even bother to listen to their songs. Just a personal choice, I don't expect people here to agree with me.
I 100% agree with you.
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I also love Labrie's unique voice, but for me, that's an exception, not the norm. I've also known a few people who were turned off from DT just by the vocals alone.
I'm willing to bet they're all too young to have lived through 80s rock vocals. LaBrie's type of voice wasn't even slightly atypical in the late 80s/early 90s mainstream hard rock/metal landscape and his performances on I&W and Awake are stellar. It's hard to imagine they could possibly have found a more appropriate singer at that time and I believe he was a large part of what lifted them up out of the little leagues, which is where they were with WDaDU, which was little more than a curiosity.
Well, I think we're fighting a losing cause in trying to put things in context, since for some it doesn't matter, but think about it: LaBrie joined in, what, 1991? Who was big then:
Damn Yankees (1989)
LA Guns had a huge hit with "Never Enough" in 1989
Slaughter had a huge hit with "Fly To The Angels" in 1990
Skid Row had huge hits with "18 and Life" and "I Remember You" in 1989
Paul Stanley - in the Kiss box set, I think it was - talked about the late 80's as being a time when the music called for a more soaring, higher register vocal that taxed his limits as a singer.
LaBrie as singer was not at all a stretch, and not at all an unusual move for that time, and I think given that the music was a cross of different genres, was a brilliant move tying it all into something "recognizable".
Wanted to jump in on this real quick. I don't think it's the high pitched vocals that make people say LaBrie is unique. It's just his voice. Sure, people who don't already listen to bands with high pitched vocals might find him even more different, but that's not the only reason. No one sounds like him and he doesn't sound like anyone else. I didn't grow up listening to eighties bands, but came to love Queensryche and Iron Maiden later on. And I have heard countless singers who sound like one of those two, or at least in the ball park. Or Dio. Russell Allen often sounded like Dio and the guy from Boston. LaBrie has said Steve Perry and Mercury were influences, but he doesn't sound like them. I lot of friends of mine are 80s metal people, and some had as hard a time with LaBrie as anyone else. Some like him, but they like him because he is so different. Just food for thought. It could well be that some just aren't used to the high vocals, but I don't think that's the main reason people call him different.
First off, Stadler, Damn Yankees and especially LA Guns were never big! :P
Labrie is incredible. It's not just the high pitched stuff. It's that he's able to convey emotion. One of you said that they weren't writing music suited for him, yet on both SC and BC&SL, he sang flawlessly, even though his range isn't really challenged. Just look at the BC&SL Cover Album. Labrie f'n RULES it. My only complaint was that the To Tame A Land was not vocals were not recorded in those sessions.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Meh.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Thanks for the link, nothing new though. We practicaly heard the same in previous teaser, but it means that sth is coming ;p Coming Home ;)
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Now that's how you start an album! Awesome!
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
The intro was cool but when it got to the main riff I was like... meh. Looking forward to hearing the whole song though.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Now that's how you start an album! Awesome!
But that's not the first song of the album ;D
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Liked the little vocal part.
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Can't get anymore stereotype prog metal cheesyness with two double necked instruments. :metal
That keyboard intro was pretty sweet. Intro snippet reminded me a bit of the The Who prog metal style.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Meh.
yep.
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Hm, actually I was pretty let down by everything but that one vocal note. The keyboard riff sounds like something I'd hear from any number of the typical prog metal bands these days.
Ah well, still hope.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
After reading all of Derek's annoying tweets I was dying to hear some new music. Now that I have, I prefer Derek's tweets, at least they promoted conversation and discussion.
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My thoughts exactly, Adami... That riff sounds like a less interesting version of Symphony X's Legend - at least, that's what came to mind right away.
Hope there's not much of that screaming on the record.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o
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Hm, actually I was pretty let down by everything but that one vocal note. The keyboard riff sounds like something I'd hear from any number of the typical prog metal bands these days.
Ah well, still hope.
Yep
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o
:lol
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o
:rollin
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Deleted
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It was absurd long before my post and furthermore it doesn't seem like you have an open mind. Could it be that we have actually just examined the evidence and thought, "Yup. It seems to be pointed in this direction."
While sarcasm may not be to your taste, the "You just don't know" argument also seems to be one of the lowest forms of debate. Of course nobody knows. You also don't know that Derek and Mike don't hate John and Jordan's guts and are hoping their feelings are hurt. I don't think that but hey, I guess I don't know for sure.
What's actually kind of alarming though is that you apparently don't know you posted something blatantly false about James. He never said "We're happier now that Mike's gone" or whatever misquote you wrote. That's not one you can chalk up to, "Ya just don't know." We know for a fact that he never said that. At least publicly. Private conversation with family? Ok, I guess we don't know. But we have no evidence that ever happened.
Wrong: https://www.antimusic.com/news/11/july/ts12LaBrie_Says_Dream_Theater_Are_Better_Without_Mike_Portnoy.shtml
https://rocknewsdesk.com/world-news/labrie-dream-theater-is-better-without-portnoy/2496/
"We are better and happier now without Mike". Boom.
As for "open mind", you're missing one KEY point: I'm not at ALL saying JUST that "we don't know". Of course we never REALLY know, and there's nothing wrong ABSENT ANY OTHER INFORMATION to draw conclusions. My beef is when we IGNORE information that contradicts our conclusions only to stick with our conclusion or justify our emotions. We KNOW there is more to the story. It's not as if I am just speculating that there MIGHT be more. I get it, I'm not at all dumb. I know there's a chance that OJ didn't kill Nicole, but reasonable doubt says he did. I understand it (probably better than my posts indicate). BUT, we have three people that know him personally, spoke to him about it, and have worked with him repeatedly (one, I know for a fact - because I was there - regularly speaks to him) who say we don't have the full story. Yet, some of you refuse to acknowledge that, refuse to accommodate that, and to me that's the equivalent of finding your wife naked in bed with the postman on top of her and saying "but no, she's not cheating. Nope."
So if your main argument has been repeated over and over that you can just never know, why do you all of the sudden think you know that I don't care about other peoples opinions. That's what was the most bizarre about your argument. In this instance, you clearly don't know...especially on a day where I gave a shoutout to a coworker for always being willing to debate despite our opposite opinions and always maintaining a great working relationship and friendship despite our political differences. Are you just being indignant? Sensitive? Honest question. I thought we were told not to be sensitive and yet now I'm being called names because it seems I touched a nerve. This whole time I was having fun. Again, the people that tell me not be sensitive (even though I wasn't) and we should just have fun with it (which I feel I was) have a big problem with this?
See above; it's not as simple as "you can just never know". If you meet someone for the first time and say "hi there!" and they say "Go fuck yourself", you don't know why that happened, but you'd be fine and reasonable to say "that's a dick". BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO OTHER INFORMATION. An important part of my argument is that you can't ignore evidence that doesn't support your emotional conclusion, and I see a lot of that here.
As for the rest, I am honestly lost. I'm NOT sensitive. I don't carry any of this with me. That doesn't mean I can't respond to false arguments or ad hominem arguments. If you said something to me (I honestly don't recall) and you were joking and I didn't seem like I took it that way, that's on me, my bad. I have no animosity to anyone here, and my feelings for people are not based on whether they agree with me or not.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Meh.
yep.
I'm in so far, but if the video has a shot of David Caruso pulling off his sunglasses, I may have to draw the line.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
24 seconds is tough to judge anything on. But it hasn't swayed me from looking forward to the album. The one thing I am concerned about (only as so far as my personal tastes are concerned) is that JSS just doesn't sing really high, clean notes. As evident with that clip, he screams. That's fine in spots. But I've seen JSS on a number of TSO tours and once with Journey 11 years ago. Even in Journey, he needed Deen Castronovo to do the real high stuff. Perhaps MP and DS have just moved on from the tenor high notes. And that's fine. But I was hoping there would be some of that. And I don't think there will be, at least with JSS singing for them. Those days for him are long gone...
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Umm....ok. What was the point of that short snippet. Would've rather had the whole song instead, so I can decide wheter I enjoyed it.
All that did was get me thinking about The Who.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Meh.
yep.
I'm in so far, but if the video has a shot of David Caruso pulling off his sunglasses, I may have to draw the line.
:lol
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Anyone else felt like singing "Welcome to the jungle" after that intro? :biggrin:
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Anyone else felt like singing "Welcome to the jungle" after that intro? :biggrin:
There's an 80's metal song that I want to sing to but can't remember the song .
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
24 seconds is tough to judge anything on. But it hasn't swayed me from looking forward to the album. The one thing I am concerned about (only as so far as my personal tastes are concerned) is that JSS just doesn't sing really high, clean notes. As evident with that clip, he screams. That's fine in spots. But I've seen JSS on a number of TSO tours and once with Journey 11 years ago. Even in Journey, he needed Deen Castronovo to do the real high stuff. Perhaps MP and DS have just moved on from the tenor high notes. And that's fine. But I was hoping there would be some of that. And I don't think there will be, at least with JSS singing for them. Those days for him are long gone...
I happen to agree with you on this point.
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It was absurd long before my post and furthermore it doesn't seem like you have an open mind. Could it be that we have actually just examined the evidence and thought, "Yup. It seems to be pointed in this direction."
While sarcasm may not be to your taste, the "You just don't know" argument also seems to be one of the lowest forms of debate. Of course nobody knows. You also don't know that Derek and Mike don't hate John and Jordan's guts and are hoping their feelings are hurt. I don't think that but hey, I guess I don't know for sure.
What's actually kind of alarming though is that you apparently don't know you posted something blatantly false about James. He never said "We're happier now that Mike's gone" or whatever misquote you wrote. That's not one you can chalk up to, "Ya just don't know." We know for a fact that he never said that. At least publicly. Private conversation with family? Ok, I guess we don't know. But we have no evidence that ever happened.
Wrong: https://www.antimusic.com/news/11/july/ts12LaBrie_Says_Dream_Theater_Are_Better_Without_Mike_Portnoy.shtml
https://rocknewsdesk.com/world-news/labrie-dream-theater-is-better-without-portnoy/2496/
"We are better and happier now without Mike". Boom.
As for "open mind", you're missing one KEY point: I'm not at ALL saying JUST that "we don't know". Of course we never REALLY know, and there's nothing wrong ABSENT ANY OTHER INFORMATION to draw conclusions. My beef is when we IGNORE information that contradicts our conclusions only to stick with our conclusion or justify our emotions. We KNOW there is more to the story. It's not as if I am just speculating that there MIGHT be more. I get it, I'm not at all dumb. I know there's a chance that OJ didn't kill Nicole, but reasonable doubt says he did. I understand it (probably better than my posts indicate). BUT, we have three people that know him personally, spoke to him about it, and have worked with him repeatedly (one, I know for a fact - because I was there - regularly speaks to him) who say we don't have the full story. Yet, some of you refuse to acknowledge that, refuse to accommodate that, and to me that's the equivalent of finding your wife naked in bed with the postman on top of her and saying "but no, she's not cheating. Nope."
So if your main argument has been repeated over and over that you can just never know, why do you all of the sudden think you know that I don't care about other peoples opinions. That's what was the most bizarre about your argument. In this instance, you clearly don't know...especially on a day where I gave a shoutout to a coworker for always being willing to debate despite our opposite opinions and always maintaining a great working relationship and friendship despite our political differences. Are you just being indignant? Sensitive? Honest question. I thought we were told not to be sensitive and yet now I'm being called names because it seems I touched a nerve. This whole time I was having fun. Again, the people that tell me not be sensitive (even though I wasn't) and we should just have fun with it (which I feel I was) have a big problem with this?
See above; it's not as simple as "you can just never know". If you meet someone for the first time and say "hi there!" and they say "Go fuck yourself", you don't know why that happened, but you'd be fine and reasonable to say "that's a dick". BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO OTHER INFORMATION. An important part of my argument is that you can't ignore evidence that doesn't support your emotional conclusion, and I see a lot of that here.
As for the rest, I am honestly lost. I'm NOT sensitive. I don't carry any of this with me. That doesn't mean I can't respond to false arguments or ad hominem arguments. If you said something to me (I honestly don't recall) and you were joking and I didn't seem like I took it that way, that's on me, my bad. I have no animosity to anyone here, and my feelings for people are not based on whether they agree with me or not.
I don't see him say happier. Kind of misleading title to the article. It is certainly implied though.
https://rocknewsdesk.com/world-news/labrie-dream-theater-is-better-without-portnoy/2496/
The singer says: “We were talking about how everything is much more balanced and everyone is in their role or their position.
“It’s where things should be on stage where it’s not somebody in the background trying to grab the limelight, when maybe they should just be grooving or whatever.
“But that’s Mike’s character: he’s big and he wants to be in the limelight. The problem with that is it takes away from the bigger picture: the band as a unit.
“A lot of people have been commenting since we started out on this tour. They’re saying, ‘It feels more like watching a band, with somebody up front singing and interacting, and everybody else just back there.
“There’s always moments when the spotlight’s on the other members, and it should be. But it creates more of a balance.
“We were talking about it and saying, ‘You know, this is really cool – it feels like a unit.’ So it’s a lot better.”
https://rocknewsdesk.com/world-news/labrie-dream-theater-is-better-without-portnoy/2496/
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Wrong: https://www.antimusic.com/news/11/july/ts12LaBrie_Says_Dream_Theater_Are_Better_Without_Mike_Portnoy.shtml
https://rocknewsdesk.com/world-news/labrie-dream-theater-is-better-without-portnoy/2496/
"We are better and happier now without Mike". Boom.
You, Stadler, the man who is always trying to cite factual information and chastising others for not doing the same, quote something that isn't even said by JLB in the articles, and then present it as a mic drop moment. Really?? Looks like you picked a headline and ran with it without reading. Ironic, my friend.
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Boom.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
1st promise broken.
Derek Sherinian @DerekSherinian Sep 1
More
No asshole puckering high vocal shreiks in SONS OF APOLLO!! We promise!@
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Well he's half right, my asshole didn't pucker.
I definitely winced though. :lol
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Wrong: https://www.antimusic.com/news/11/july/ts12LaBrie_Says_Dream_Theater_Are_Better_Without_Mike_Portnoy.shtml
https://rocknewsdesk.com/world-news/labrie-dream-theater-is-better-without-portnoy/2496/
"We are better and happier now without Mike". Boom.
You, Stadler, the man who is always trying to cite factual information and chastising others for not doing the same, quote something that isn't even said by JLB in the articles, and then present it as a mic drop moment. Really?? Looks like you picked a headline and ran with it without reading. Ironic, my friend.
AND
Boom.
Those interviews referred to a statement given by James on "Used Bin Radio", and he was clear. If you don't think "not sad at all" and "excited" don't in any way shape or form imply "happy", well, you're right. You got me. Winner!
"You know what?! I'm not sad at all. I've gotta be honest with you." and "We're excited, we're really looking forward to the next chapter."
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/interviews/dream_theater_singer_not_sad_at_all_following_portnoys_departure.html
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Wrong: https://www.antimusic.com/news/11/july/ts12LaBrie_Says_Dream_Theater_Are_Better_Without_Mike_Portnoy.shtml
https://rocknewsdesk.com/world-news/labrie-dream-theater-is-better-without-portnoy/2496/
"We are better and happier now without Mike". Boom.
You, Stadler, the man who is always trying to cite factual information and chastising others for not doing the same, quote something that isn't even said by JLB in the articles, and then present it as a mic drop moment. Really?? Looks like you picked a headline and ran with it without reading. Ironic, my friend.
AND
Boom.
Those interviews referred to a statement given by James on "Used Bin Radio", and he was clear. If you don't think "not sad at all" and "excited" don't in any way shape or form imply "happy", well, you're right. You got me. Winner!
"You know what?! I'm not sad at all. I've gotta be honest with you." and "We're excited, we're really looking forward to the next chapter."
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/interviews/dream_theater_singer_not_sad_at_all_following_portnoys_departure.html
Typically when you put something in quotes in means that is exactly what is said. So when you put "We are better and happier now without Mike". Boom. it made it seem like you are quoting James and not just interpreting his words.
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Wrong: https://www.antimusic.com/news/11/july/ts12LaBrie_Says_Dream_Theater_Are_Better_Without_Mike_Portnoy.shtml
https://rocknewsdesk.com/world-news/labrie-dream-theater-is-better-without-portnoy/2496/
"We are better and happier now without Mike". Boom.
You, Stadler, the man who is always trying to cite factual information and chastising others for not doing the same, quote something that isn't even said by JLB in the articles, and then present it as a mic drop moment. Really?? Looks like you picked a headline and ran with it without reading. Ironic, my friend.
AND
Boom.
Those interviews referred to a statement given by James on "Used Bin Radio", and he was clear. If you don't think "not sad at all" and "excited" don't in any way shape or form imply "happy", well, you're right. You got me. Winner!
"You know what?! I'm not sad at all. I've gotta be honest with you." and "We're excited, we're really looking forward to the next chapter."
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/interviews/dream_theater_singer_not_sad_at_all_following_portnoys_departure.html
"We are better and happier now without Mike" is not something James ever said, so he cannot be quoted on it, so don't present it like he did say it. You have argued in the past against assuming meanings from quotes, now you're arguing in favor of it. Stop. He didn't say it. We could read the 'implications' a thousand different ways, but you presented that as something he said, when he didn't, end of story. I'm sorry you don't like being called out on something as plain and obvious as this, but them's the facts, chief. Boom.
EDIT: Basically, you presented a quote that wasn't even said, now you're arguing that the implication YOU want to get out of it is the only one. Again, irony, thy name is Stadler.
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What's the guy supposed to say? "We are devastated! There is no possible way we could carry on. We are so sad we are just going to pack up our gear and go home, never to work together again."
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
1st promise broken.
Derek Sherinian @DerekSherinian Sep 1
More
No asshole puckering high vocal shreiks in SONS OF APOLLO!! We promise!@
:lol Good call.
Umm....ok. What was the point of that short snippet. Would've rather had the whole song instead, so I can decide wheter I enjoyed it.
Yeah, that was mostly my reaction as well. When I watched the video the first time I did not look at the total time of the video, so when the fade happened I was "wait, what?"
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Typically when you put something in quotes in means that is exactly what is said. So when you put "We are better and happier now without Mike". Boom. it made it seem like you are quoting James and not just interpreting his words.
AND
"We are better and happier now without Mike" is not something James ever said, so he cannot be quoted on it, so don't present it like he did say it. You have argued in the past against assuming meanings from quotes, now you're arguing in favor of it. Stop. He didn't say it. We could read the 'implications' a thousand different ways, but you presented that as something he said, when he didn't, end of story. I'm sorry you don't like being called out on something as plain and obvious as this, but them's the facts, chief. Boom.
Yup. You guys are right. You win. You won the battle. You got one. I technically speaking, misquoted James, and was sloppy in my drafting of my post. Boom. Call me out all day long when I'm wrong. I deserve it as much as the next guy. I was wrong on that singular point.
As for the war? I stand by the underlying argument. James was, according to the article I quoted above (and any misprints, mistakes, misstatements from this point forward are therefore the responsibility of the author of the underlying piece, as I am only quoting that article), "not sad at all" that Mike left. Since "happy" is, according to the Merriam-Webster Thesaurus, and using definition number 2 of said word, the antonym of "sad" (https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/happy), it is reasonable, though not entirely conclusive, to interpret the statement "not sad" as in fact meaning "happy". Since we do have other evidence, including the fact that the band is "excited" as well (considered a "related word" to "happy", also as per Merriam-Webster [https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/excited]), this is not merely an assumption subject to the "we just don't know" false understanding of my argument, but rather a conclusion drawn on the totality of the evidence.
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That was a nice sample. There's a bunch of guys that look like they know how to have their fun, they appear to still have a lot of energy.
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That was a nice sample. There's a bunch of guys that look like they know how to have their fun, they appear to still have a lot of energy.
Why are you even talking about this? Did you not know there are interview segments we could be arguing about?!?
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What's the guy supposed to say? "We are devastated! There is no possible way we could carry on. We are so sad we are just going to pack up our gear and go home, never to work together again."
It's not the point; he should tell the truth, as he sees it, or not say anything at all. The problem isn't that James said it, it's that some people here are ignoring that he said it and arguing "it didn't happen".
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I have no problems with the little preview clip of today. It definitely did have the feeling of "welcome to the jungle" but that's OK. Definitely felt like a good, get pumped, intro teaser clip. Maybe they could have released this a month ago and the single today if anything, but it's not really enough of anything musically to form any opinion of it.
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That was a nice sample. There's a bunch of guys that look like they know how to have their fun, they appear to still have a lot of energy.
Why are you even talking about this? Did you not know there are interview segments we could be arguing about?!?
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to spoil the discussion. :lol
Back on topic ( ;) ), as far as I'm concerned, there were hardly any comments that could be considered insensitive, harsh or disrespectful by James regarding Mike and the split. Mike, on the other hand, made plenty more passive-aggressive jabs over the years. It's beyond me how this is even a discussion - it's objective, because sources, interviews and tweets speak for themselves. But it's possible I haven't been following the discussion correctly.
It's odd that this kind of talk takes place in the Sons Of Apollo thread - maybe Mike Portnoy needs his own topic. Something like "Mike Portnoy - personality and comments", so that we know we should discuss music elsewhere. Sorry for trying to bring order into this mess, nobody asked me to and most of the people are apparently fine with this. :lol
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That was a nice sample. There's a bunch of guys that look like they know how to have their fun, they appear to still have a lot of energy.
Why are you even talking about this? Did you not know there are interview segments we could be arguing about?!?
This Sons of Apollo thread is starting to look like a free for all fistfight...
But yeah, the sample sounded pretty cool!
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Sigh. Stadler, not sure if you're missing the point, but the point is that you're doing exactly what you've regularly (and consistently - after all, you said it yourself, if you're anything, it's consistent) criticized others for. If you feel a little salty about that, it's not on me... but that pretty much sums it up I guess, no reason to continue arguing it, it's silly.
I don't know why they didn't just release the whole song, but it's coming out on Friday right?
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Typically when you put something in quotes in means that is exactly what is said. So when you put "We are better and happier now without Mike". Boom. it made it seem like you are quoting James and not just interpreting his words.
AND
"We are better and happier now without Mike" is not something James ever said, so he cannot be quoted on it, so don't present it like he did say it. You have argued in the past against assuming meanings from quotes, now you're arguing in favor of it. Stop. He didn't say it. We could read the 'implications' a thousand different ways, but you presented that as something he said, when he didn't, end of story. I'm sorry you don't like being called out on something as plain and obvious as this, but them's the facts, chief. Boom.
Yup. You guys are right. You win. You won the battle. You got one. I technically speaking, misquoted James, and was sloppy in my drafting of my post. Boom. Call me out all day long when I'm wrong. I deserve it as much as the next guy. I was wrong on that singular point.
As for the war? I stand by the underlying argument. James was, according to the article I quoted above (and any misprints, mistakes, misstatements from this point forward are therefore the responsibility of the author of the underlying piece, as I am only quoting that article), "not sad at all" that Mike left. Since "happy" is, according to the Merriam-Webster Thesaurus, and using definition number 2 of said word, the antonym of "sad" (https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/happy), it is reasonable, though not entirely conclusive, to interpret the statement "not sad" as in fact meaning "happy". Since we do have other evidence, including the fact that the band is "excited" as well (considered a "related word" to "happy", also as per Merriam-Webster [https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/excited]), this is not merely an assumption subject to the "we just don't know" false understanding of my argument, but rather a conclusion drawn on the totality of the evidence.
Stadler, I don't want to win anything. Fine, you are right, James and MP are equally to blame, or James is more to blame if that is the argument you are trying to win. I was just explaining the usage of quotes.
You are tenacious. :)
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Can we just open a separate thread called "Stadler vs the World" and direct all that bickering into that?
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I can't say I have heard the Sons of Apollo album, but from what I have heard, I'd be very surprised if it comes anywhere close to justifying all the attention being paid to the band in this thread.
I like MP, but let's face it: this is a band of has-beens and also-rans. Whether people want to claim DT are no different -
maybe, but that's another discussion for another time. The SoA might be a decent album, but I highly doubt it's going to be anyone's masterwork.
Also, just watched that :24 snippet, and both Bumblefoot and Sheehan are using double neck guitars. That alone has me checked out, aside from my own morbid curiosity :biggrin:
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The odd part for me, and it doesn't make much sense actually, but in the rhythm sections I've heard so far I get really reminded of Adrenaline Mob.
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From that snippet. I didn't like Billy Sheehans bass tone at all. Its really upfront amd twangy.
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From that snippet. I didn't like Billy Sheehans bass tone at all. Its really upfront amd twangy.
I am glad I am not the only one who noticed that. It was kinda jarring.
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The odd part for me, and it doesn't make much sense actually, but in the rhythm sections I've heard so far I get really reminded of Adrenaline Mob.
Given Bumblefoot's other main project, Art of Anarchy, I'm not surprised. That stuff is your typical "radio rock" that sits quite appropriately alongside Five Finger Death Punch, Seether, Bush, Godsmack, etc., I'm sure you get the point. Scott Stapp is apparently even the full-time vocalist of Bumblefoot's other band.
Honestly, would have been way more interested had we seen somebody like Eric Gilette on guitars. Bumblefoot is the very definition of an also-ran, and he's way more of a Tremonti or Orlando than a Petrucci.
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"We are better and happier now without Mike" is not something James ever said, so he cannot be quoted on it, so don't present it like he did say it. You have argued in the past against assuming meanings from quotes, now you're arguing in favor of it. Stop. He didn't say it. We could read the 'implications' a thousand different ways, but you presented that as something he said, when he didn't, end of story. I'm sorry you don't like being called out on something as plain and obvious as this, but them's the facts, chief. Boom.
EDIT: Basically, you presented a quote that wasn't even said, now you're arguing that the implication YOU want to get out of it is the only one. Again, irony, thy name is Stadler.
Hilarious, ain't it? He has taken more people than we count to task for misquoting or interpreting Portnoy's comments a certain way, and now here he is misquoting LaBrie in an attempt to make him look like the bad guy. Team Mike, indeed. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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From that snippet. I didn't like Billy Sheehans bass tone at all. Its really upfront amd twangy.
I am glad I am not the only one who noticed that. It was kinda jarring.
That's always my big hurdle with his playing.
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From that snippet. I didn't like Billy Sheehans bass tone at all. Its really upfront amd twangy.
I am glad I am not the only one who noticed that. It was kinda jarring.
That's always my big hurdle with his playing.
He's a good bass player. His tone doesn't suck in Steve Vai's Real Illusions: Reflections album. But here and Winery Dogs, its a bit too grungy of a tone. Its odd in that it fits The Winery Dogs.
We'll see Friday I guess.
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I can't say I have heard the Sons of Apollo album, but from what I have heard, I'd be very surprised if it comes anywhere close to justifying all the attention being paid to the band in this thread.
I like MP, but let's face it: this is a band of has-beens and also-rans. Whether people want to claim DT are no different -
maybe, but that's another discussion for another time. The SoA might be a decent album, but I highly doubt it's going to be anyone's masterwork.
Also, just watched that :24 snippet, and both Bumblefoot and Sheehan are using double neck guitars. That alone has me checked out, aside from my own morbid curiosity :biggrin:
This.
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Typically when you put something in quotes in means that is exactly what is said. So when you put "We are better and happier now without Mike". Boom. it made it seem like you are quoting James and not just interpreting his words.
AND
"We are better and happier now without Mike" is not something James ever said, so he cannot be quoted on it, so don't present it like he did say it. You have argued in the past against assuming meanings from quotes, now you're arguing in favor of it. Stop. He didn't say it. We could read the 'implications' a thousand different ways, but you presented that as something he said, when he didn't, end of story. I'm sorry you don't like being called out on something as plain and obvious as this, but them's the facts, chief. Boom.
Yup. You guys are right. You win. You won the battle. You got one. I technically speaking, misquoted James, and was sloppy in my drafting of my post. Boom. Call me out all day long when I'm wrong. I deserve it as much as the next guy. I was wrong on that singular point.
As for the war? I stand by the underlying argument. James was, according to the article I quoted above (and any misprints, mistakes, misstatements from this point forward are therefore the responsibility of the author of the underlying piece, as I am only quoting that article), "not sad at all" that Mike left. Since "happy" is, according to the Merriam-Webster Thesaurus, and using definition number 2 of said word, the antonym of "sad" (https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/happy), it is reasonable, though not entirely conclusive, to interpret the statement "not sad" as in fact meaning "happy". Since we do have other evidence, including the fact that the band is "excited" as well (considered a "related word" to "happy", also as per Merriam-Webster [https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/excited]), this is not merely an assumption subject to the "we just don't know" false understanding of my argument, but rather a conclusion drawn on the totality of the evidence.
Stadler, I don't want to win anything. Fine, you are right, James and MP are equally to blame, or James is more to blame if that is the argument you are trying to win. I was just explaining the usage of quotes.
You are tenacious. :)
It's not at all about winning. It's just very frustrating to hear people like Mladen say it's "objective" and act all incredulous, like someone is trying to argue "Margot Robbie is a troll with a penis" and then when I give examples that show it's not, I get nitpicked for technical errors and mocked for having the conversation to begin with, and told I'm the one who's biased. Then cue the obligatory "off topic" posts, and what-not.
Anyway...
I hate snippets, so I don't give them much credence, but I think I'm with most of the group so far: I like what I hear, but I need to hear more to be convinced that the vocals are the real deal and that it's not more generic, yet very well-played genre prog metal. I've said this before (and it has nothing to do with Mike or any other individual musician), but I get skittish when musicians try to play in a genre. The best music, in my opinion, is that which blurs genres. Maiden was never pure "heavy metal"; they had prog influences. Crimson wasn't just "prog", they had jazz influences. Sabbath wasn't just "metal", they had prog and blues influences (some of the mid-period Ozzy stuff was almost progressive itself). I think that was the magic of early Dream Theater; they were a band that was an amalgamation of Journey, Maiden, Rush, Sabbath, Metallica, Elton John, and Deep Purple.
The initial keyboard part reminds me of something, but I can't quite place it...
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From that snippet. I didn't like Billy Sheehans bass tone at all. Its really upfront amd twangy.
I am glad I am not the only one who noticed that. It was kinda jarring.
That's always my big hurdle with his playing.
I'm a bassist, and I admire that Billy's been able to create his own style and approach to the instrument, that's really cool. The guy's a legend!
Having said that, I just cannot stand his tone or the way he overplays the crap out of everything he's involved with.
I can't say I have heard the Sons of Apollo album, but from what I have heard, I'd be very surprised if it comes anywhere close to justifying all the attention being paid to the band in this thread.
I like MP, but let's face it: this is a band of has-beens and also-rans. Whether people want to claim DT are no different -
maybe, but that's another discussion for another time. The SoA might be a decent album, but I highly doubt it's going to be anyone's masterwork.
Also, just watched that :24 snippet, and both Bumblefoot and Sheehan are using double neck guitars. That alone has me checked out, aside from my own morbid curiosity :biggrin:
This.
I think that, after the tour in 2018, the band will slowly fade into nothingness and Mike will come up with other 87 new bands to focus on.
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"We are better and happier now without Mike" is not something James ever said, so he cannot be quoted on it, so don't present it like he did say it. You have argued in the past against assuming meanings from quotes, now you're arguing in favor of it. Stop. He didn't say it. We could read the 'implications' a thousand different ways, but you presented that as something he said, when he didn't, end of story. I'm sorry you don't like being called out on something as plain and obvious as this, but them's the facts, chief. Boom.
EDIT: Basically, you presented a quote that wasn't even said, now you're arguing that the implication YOU want to get out of it is the only one. Again, irony, thy name is Stadler.
Hilarious, ain't it? He has taken more people than we count to task for misquoting or interpreting Portnoy's comments a certain way, and now here he is misquoting LaBrie in an attempt to make him look like the bad guy. Team Mike, indeed. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
I'm glad you're amused. I made a style error; if you want to hold me to the technical letter of the law I admitted to my mistake. Should I expect a warrant for my arrest? My error wasn't factual though; he DID say what I said he said, albeit in a different way, and not that language. Show me where I've nitpicked someone's use of quotations like this. The others are pulling interpretations out of thin air. Not at all the same thing.
If that's all you got on me - a misuse of quotation marks - I can sleep at night. Better than a lot of what's been said here.
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Bit of an Astral Body (Between The Buried And Me) vibe from the snippet. A part of me thinks they've hurriedly rushed this snippet out to try and move conversation back to the music rather than Derek's shenanigans, and that's fair enough, but it's nowhere near long enough to give a sense of where the track is going. A lot of songs begin the way this one does (Fuzz Universe by Paul Gilbert also came to mind when I was listening), before settling down into a dull chug-fest. This snippet cuts out right before it becomes clear which direction it's heading. In terms of heightening anticipation for the album, it hasn't done it for me, but neither has it turned me off. There's just...not much to say about it. It's nice enough.
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My only "complaint" is that I think they should release one of the epics to cause a bigger impact. This song has around 4 minutes and I really don't understand the "singles" mentality to promote this kind of band. Anyway I really liked the first song released and I'm confident I will like a lot the new one too.
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The odd part for me, and it doesn't make much sense actually, but in the rhythm sections I've heard so far I get really reminded of Adrenaline Mob.
Given Bumblefoot's other main project, Art of Anarchy, I'm not surprised. That stuff is your typical "radio rock" that sits quite appropriately alongside Five Finger Death Punch, Seether, Bush, Godsmack, etc., I'm sure you get the point. Scott Stapp is apparently even the full-time vocalist of Bumblefoot's other band.
Honestly, would have been way more interested had we seen somebody like Eric Gilette on guitars. Bumblefoot is the very definition of an also-ran, and he's way more of a Tremonti or Orlando than a Petrucci.
This quote alone makes me believe you're not really too familiar with Ron Thal or his work. His solo records (under his own name and under the "Bumblefoot" alias) cover a lot of different musical ground. He can go from loung-y jazz ["Every Time I Shake My Head (It's Like Christmas)"] to wacky, Zappa-influenced instrumental rock (pretty much all of "The Adventures of Bumblefoot"), crank a few punk-ish songs ("Normal"), play something that wouldn't be out of place at a Spaghetti Western ("Legend Of Van Cleef") or poke some fun at different musical genres ("Guitars Suck", "I Can't Play The Blues"). Art of Anarchy is, by no means, a great example of how diverse his playing actually is. And I have a hard time comparing him to either Mark Tremonti or Mike Orlando. I mean, Thal is a MUCH more advanced guitar player than those two guys. And he's much more tasteful (in my opinion, obviously) than either of them.
I also found your use of the labels "has-been" and "also-ran" quite ludricous. So these guys are "has-beens" and " also-rans" because they're not new hotshots that supposedly still have a lot to prove? I'd prefer to call them seasoned veterans but that's probably just me...
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"We are better and happier now without Mike" is not something James ever said, so he cannot be quoted on it, so don't present it like he did say it. You have argued in the past against assuming meanings from quotes, now you're arguing in favor of it. Stop. He didn't say it. We could read the 'implications' a thousand different ways, but you presented that as something he said, when he didn't, end of story. I'm sorry you don't like being called out on something as plain and obvious as this, but them's the facts, chief. Boom.
EDIT: Basically, you presented a quote that wasn't even said, now you're arguing that the implication YOU want to get out of it is the only one. Again, irony, thy name is Stadler.
Hilarious, ain't it? He has taken more people than we count to task for misquoting or interpreting Portnoy's comments a certain way, and now here he is misquoting LaBrie in an attempt to make him look like the bad guy. Team Mike, indeed. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
I'm glad you're amused. I made a style error; if you want to hold me to the technical letter of the law I admitted to my mistake. Should I expect a warrant for my arrest? My error wasn't factual though; he DID say what I said he said, albeit in a different way, and not that language. Show me where I've nitpicked someone's use of quotations like this. The others are pulling interpretations out of thin air. Not at all the same thing.
If that's all you got on me - a misuse of quotation marks - I can sleep at night. Better than a lot of what's been said here.
My god! Talk about an overreaction. Everybody already proved that what you quoted wasn't actually a quote and you apologized and then promptly took your apology back by claiming he kinda sorta did say it! He didn't! You were wrong!
One thing you've missed completely is context. So yes, James did say they are "better" now but that was immediately after talking about acting more like a unit. As far as "not sad at all" goes, he was asked a weird question in a kind of cheeky way. The interview even made a statement after because this all blew up and I think he felt bad. The interviewer asked if James was sad. He responded he was not. Then Mike message board exploded after he deleted a thread on James solo tour and some guy over there started calling Mike out. Mike eventually "apologized." Not for overreacting or not giving James the benefit of the doubt but for "believing the out of context headline." Even Mike admitted it was out of context (but he didn't revive the thread about James's solo tour which was eventually and sadly canceled. I don't even think he's said anything nice about James since then. James, however, has said nice stuff about Mike. )
James then had to make another statement saying that he was in fact sad when Mike first announced he was leaving but he wasn't going to wallow and he was going to make the best of it so he is excited for the future or whatever.
So no, Stadler. James never used the word "happier" and anything that implied that was much less "offensive" in context if you cared to actually examine it.
Far be it from me to only complain about people blatantly taking things out of context to make their point, here's something on topic.
One of the only thing's that excite me about the clip is Derek's keyboards who is probably my least favorite member at this point. I guess I'm kind of excited to see what Bumblefoot does (I've actually seen him three times with GNR). Other than that....meh.
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"We are better and happier now without Mike" is not something James ever said, so he cannot be quoted on it, so don't present it like he did say it. You have argued in the past against assuming meanings from quotes, now you're arguing in favor of it. Stop. He didn't say it. We could read the 'implications' a thousand different ways, but you presented that as something he said, when he didn't, end of story. I'm sorry you don't like being called out on something as plain and obvious as this, but them's the facts, chief. Boom.
EDIT: Basically, you presented a quote that wasn't even said, now you're arguing that the implication YOU want to get out of it is the only one. Again, irony, thy name is Stadler.
Hilarious, ain't it? He has taken more people than we count to task for misquoting or interpreting Portnoy's comments a certain way, and now here he is misquoting LaBrie in an attempt to make him look like the bad guy. Team Mike, indeed. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
I'm glad you're amused. I made a style error; if you want to hold me to the technical letter of the law I admitted to my mistake. Should I expect a warrant for my arrest? My error wasn't factual though; he DID say what I said he said, albeit in a different way, and not that language. Show me where I've nitpicked someone's use of quotations like this. The others are pulling interpretations out of thin air. Not at all the same thing.
If that's all you got on me - a misuse of quotation marks - I can sleep at night. Better than a lot of what's been said here.
1. Misquoting someone, especially when you linked to the article yourself and should have read it is not a "style error." It is outright dishonesty.
2. Why are we STILL on Mike Portnoy's and James LaBrie's off-topic exploits from several years ago after my prior warnings? This is OFF TOPIC, and this is the last warning I will give on the subject.
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My only "complaint" is that I think they should release one of the epics to cause a bigger impact. This song has around 4 minutes and I really don't understand the "singles" mentality to promote this kind of band. Anyway I really liked the first song released and I'm confident I will like a lot the new one too.
Im not sure that's a good idea personally. I know us prog fans want to hear it and it would probably get us pumped, but that's a good chunk of the album in terms over % of minutes that releasing that may actually cause people to not buy the music as well. I don't know, I think the single route makes sense even if it results in the best songs not being released before hand. It just helps reach a larger audience without releasing too much of the album.
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My only "complaint" is that I think they should release one of the epics to cause a bigger impact. This song has around 4 minutes and I really don't understand the "singles" mentality to promote this kind of band. Anyway I really liked the first song released and I'm confident I will like a lot the new one too.
Im not sure that's a good idea personally. I know us prog fans want to hear it and it would probably get us pumped, but that's a good chunk of the album in terms over % of minutes that releasing that may actually cause people to not buy the music as well. I don't know, I think the single route makes sense even if it results in the best songs not being released before hand. It just helps reach a larger audience without releasing too much of the album.
I agree but I think they probably should have released something "proggier" than the first single. I doubt they're going to get much mainstream success so they may as well play to their base a little more.
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My only "complaint" is that I think they should release one of the epics to cause a bigger impact. This song has around 4 minutes and I really don't understand the "singles" mentality to promote this kind of band. Anyway I really liked the first song released and I'm confident I will like a lot the new one too.
Im not sure that's a good idea personally. I know us prog fans want to hear it and it would probably get us pumped, but that's a good chunk of the album in terms over % of minutes that releasing that may actually cause people to not buy the music as well. I don't know, I think the single route makes sense even if it results in the best songs not being released before hand. It just helps reach a larger audience without releasing too much of the album.
I agree but I think they probably should have released something "proggier" than the first single. I doubt they're going to get much mainstream success so they may as well play to their base a little more.
Yea, maybe the next song is a bit proggier. Also, considering the musicians, some of which weren't necessarily proggy themselves, maybe the less proggy single helps win over fans of those musicians. I just personally don't put too much weight on the single of a prog band nor do I expect them do go a different route with the singe.
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2. Why are we STILL on Mike Portnoy's and James LaBrie's off-topic exploits from several years ago after my prior warnings? This is OFF TOPIC, and this is the last warning I will give on the subject.
To make sure it's clear, this applies to everyone. Enough crap.
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From that snippet. I didn't like Billy Sheehans bass tone at all. Its really upfront amd twangy.
I am glad I am not the only one who noticed that. It was kinda jarring.
That's always my big hurdle with his playing.
I'm a bassist, and I admire that Billy's been able to create his own style and approach to the instrument, that's really cool. The guy's a legend!
Having said that, I just cannot stand his tone or the way he overplays the crap out of everything he's involved with.
I can't say I have heard the Sons of Apollo album, but from what I have heard, I'd be very surprised if it comes anywhere close to justifying all the attention being paid to the band in this thread.
I like MP, but let's face it: this is a band of has-beens and also-rans. Whether people want to claim DT are no different -
maybe, but that's another discussion for another time. The SoA might be a decent album, but I highly doubt it's going to be anyone's masterwork.
Also, just watched that :24 snippet, and both Bumblefoot and Sheehan are using double neck guitars. That alone has me checked out, aside from my own morbid curiosity :biggrin:
This.
I think that, after the tour in 2018, the band will slowly fade into nothingness and Mike will come up with other 87 new bands to focus on.
I have a strange feeling you're right. It seems like the only stability is through Neal Morse, who is about consistent as they come. I am not always a fan of Neal's music but seems like a very good guy who is respectful to everyone and is a very prolific writer.
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Listened to the teaser of the second song and it find that it did not tease me... still hoping there might be something worthwile pn this record. Not holding my breath though.
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Why worry about a future of a band with a first album? Just go with the flow man.
Very Cheech and Chong of me but you're better off.
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Haven't listened to the new teaser yet, but it does seem a pretty odd thing to release. Why not just release either a new song or just don't release anything?
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Haven't listened to the new teaser yet, but it does seem a pretty odd thing to release. Why not just release either a new song or just don't release anything?
My guess, to get people talking about the music and not the tweets. The music is coming soon, but maybe they wanted something out sooner to smooth over the potential fan base.
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Haven't listened to the new teaser yet, but it does seem a pretty odd thing to release. Why not just release either a new song or just don't release anything?
My guess, to get people talking about the music and not the tweets. The music is coming soon, but maybe they wanted something out sooner to smooth over the potential fan base.
An announcement about an announcement. I don't think it's to divert from the tweets. Just a common marketing ploy. Most bands do it to build hype. Nothing new in that regard.
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Yeah, just a way to remind people--"Hey, we're still here. Our album comes out soon. Don't forget to buy it and come see us on the road."
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But it was more than just an announcement, it contained new music with the band performing it in studio. This is coming after many people complained about wanting new music. Not saying they were corelated, because I am not in the decision making room for the band, but I do think it's possible there was a link to that.
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What's the guy supposed to say? "We are devastated! There is no possible way we could carry on. We are so sad we are just going to pack up our gear and go home, never to work together again."
It's not the point; he should tell the truth, as he sees it, or not say anything at all. The problem isn't that James said it, it's that some people here are ignoring that he said it and arguing "it didn't happen".
I thought everyone realized that trying to defend Portnoy ended as soon as he put that fan on blast for wearing the ADTOE shirt to his signing. The guy is a child, and there is no defending this kind of childish behavior. It's extremely unfortunate that DS has followed suit in his tweets and making claims as ridiculous as the one about MP "reclaiming the thrown of the genre he created". Sorry, but until MP writes the music, he hasn't created shit. I don't care how many of their albums he had a hand in producing. The fact is MP would never be able to write a DT album on his own, unlike JP who absolutely can.
Don't get me wrong, I adore most of the projects he's been involved in, and I absolutely respect the man. I would be a fool not to. But I cannot, as a sane human being, defend this childishness. His immaturity in his personal life, and the way he lets it spill into his professional life, is just unacceptable behavior.
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Anyway.....
But it was more than just an announcement, it contained new music with the band performing it in studio. This is coming after many people complained about wanting new music. Not saying they were corelated, because I am not in the decision making room for the band, but I do think it's possible there was a link to that.
I doubt it. The album is coming out soon and they only have one single released. This was a teaser for a music video, which is a logical progression. I doubt anyone off of DTF or MP's page are clamoring for a new single, and the only reason most of DTF is wanting a new single is to counterbalance this awful, brain cell killing argument that has destroyed this thread recently.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Now that's how you start an album! Awesome!
But that's not the first song of the album ;D
Damn, I was pretty sure, it's a typical opener. I assume it's the second song then, after a short instrumental intro.
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This quote alone makes me believe you're not really too familiar with Ron Thal or his work. His solo records (under his own name and under the "Bumblefoot" alias) cover a lot of different musical ground. He can go from loung-y jazz ["Every Time I Shake My Head (It's Like Christmas)"] to wacky, Zappa-influenced instrumental rock (pretty much all of "The Adventures of Bumblefoot"), crank a few punk-ish songs ("Normal"), play something that wouldn't be out of place at a Spaghetti Western ("Legend Of Van Cleef") or poke some fun at different musical genres ("Guitars Suck", "I Can't Play The Blues"). Art of Anarchy is, by no means, a great example of how diverse his playing actually is. And I have a hard time comparing him to either Mark Tremonti or Mike Orlando. I mean, Thal is a MUCH more advanced guitar player than those two guys. And he's much more tasteful (in my opinion, obviously) than either of them.
I also found your use of the labels "has-been" and "also-ran" quite ludricous. So these guys are "has-beens" and " also-rans" because they're not new hotshots that supposedly still have a lot to prove? I'd prefer to call them seasoned veterans but that's probably just me...
With all due respect, that is the very definition of an also-ran. Sometimes also-rans are better than the acts that get the notoriety, as may be the case with Thal, but niche success doesn't make you a star.
If we look at Thal's career, we have a bunch of solo albums that not many people in the mainstream know or care about, and then we have the fact that he is the "other guy" that played with GnR, Scott Weiland, Scott Stapp, and now Mike Portnoy. He could be one of the best players in the world - but a lot of the best players in the world today never get far beyond their Youtube channels.
Maybe this is a big moment for Thal, where he stops being the extremely talented "other guy" and gets crossover notoriety. But given the rest of the SoA lineup, I highly doubt it. These are all busy guys who will move on to the next thing when the moment is up - Portnoy included.
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https://youtu.be/de4z6-YcpUs
Now that's how you start an album! Awesome!
But that's not the first song of the album ;D
Damn, I was pretty sure, it's a typical opener. I assume it's the second song then, after a short instrumental intro.
It's actually the second song... after an 11 minute epic :lol
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This quote alone makes me believe you're not really too familiar with Ron Thal or his work. His solo records (under his own name and under the "Bumblefoot" alias) cover a lot of different musical ground. He can go from loung-y jazz ["Every Time I Shake My Head (It's Like Christmas)"] to wacky, Zappa-influenced instrumental rock (pretty much all of "The Adventures of Bumblefoot"), crank a few punk-ish songs ("Normal"), play something that wouldn't be out of place at a Spaghetti Western ("Legend Of Van Cleef") or poke some fun at different musical genres ("Guitars Suck", "I Can't Play The Blues"). Art of Anarchy is, by no means, a great example of how diverse his playing actually is. And I have a hard time comparing him to either Mark Tremonti or Mike Orlando. I mean, Thal is a MUCH more advanced guitar player than those two guys. And he's much more tasteful (in my opinion, obviously) than either of them.
I also found your use of the labels "has-been" and "also-ran" quite ludricous. So these guys are "has-beens" and " also-rans" because they're not new hotshots that supposedly still have a lot to prove? I'd prefer to call them seasoned veterans but that's probably just me...
With all due respect, that is the very definition of an also-ran. Sometimes also-rans are better than the acts that get the notoriety, as may be the case with Thal, but niche success doesn't make you a star.
If we look at Thal's career, we have a bunch of solo albums that not many people in the mainstream know or care about, and then we have the fact that he is the "other guy" that played with GnR, Scott Weiland, Scott Stapp, and now Mike Portnoy. He could be one of the best players in the world - but a lot of the best players in the world today never get far beyond their Youtube channels.
Maybe this is a big moment for Thal, where he stops being the extremely talented "other guy" and gets crossover notoriety. But given the rest of the SoA lineup, I highly doubt it. These are all busy guys who will move on to the next thing when the moment is up - Portnoy included.
But that is precisely my point. Do you have to be a "star" to be considered relevant? Can you say that you've only "made it" if you achieve mainstream sucess? I'd argue otherwise. "Also-ran" and "has-been" are terms that have a very clear pejorative connotation that I don't think is warranted when it comes to the guys in Sons of Apollo or Dream Theater.
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It remains to be seen whether Sons of Apollo make music that is considered relevant.
Given what we heard from the first single, I'm thinking not. And the only reason it seems anyone is talking about them at all is because Derek Sherinian is a troll on social media.
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It remains to be seen whether Sons of Apollo make music that is considered relevant.
Given what we heard from the first single, I'm thinking not. And the only reason it seems anyone is talking about them at all is because Derek Sherinian is a troll on social media.
I think people are talking about it because MP calls everything a Super group and creates buzz. Everything is hyperbole with him. 87 bands! Super group! Best album of my career! He is very good at self promotion.
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It remains to be seen whether Sons of Apollo make music that is considered relevant.
Given what we heard from the first single, I'm thinking not. And the only reason it seems anyone is talking about them at all is because Derek Sherinian is a troll on social media.
I think people are talking about it because MP calls everything a Super group and creates buzz. Everything is hyperbole with him. 87 bands! Super group! Best album of my career! He is very good at self promotion.
I wouldn't call that being good at self promotion. He just overhypes everything he does, to the point that people just don't believe him anymore (some people, at least).
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It remains to be seen whether Sons of Apollo make music that is considered relevant.
Given what we heard from the first single, I'm thinking not. And the only reason it seems anyone is talking about them at all is because Derek Sherinian is a troll on social media.
I think people are talking about it because MP calls everything a Super group and creates buzz. Everything is hyperbole with him. 87 bands! Super group! Best album of my career! He is very good at self promotion.
I wouldn't call that being good at self promotion. He just overhypes everything he does, to the point that people just don't believe him anymore (some people, at least).
I am with you. I don't believe the hype anymore but he gets himself in the "press". Maybe it could be because I used to go to his site because he used to be in DT. so I am exposed to all the marketing.
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This is even kind of funny MP's tweet about the Shattered Fortress show. As if DT is some band that has retired. Ok, maybe I am nitpicking. :)
Muchos Gracias Mexico! What a great night last night showcasing the Past, Present & Future of Progressive Metal! (DT, Haken & Next To None)
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This is even kind of funny MP's tweet about the Shattered Fortress show. As if DT is some band that has retired. Ok, maybe I am nitpicking. :)
Muchos Gracias Mexico! What a great night last night showcasing the Past, Present & Future of Progressive Metal! (DT, Haken & Next To None)
I think it's nitpicking. There, MP, in my opinion, just hints that DT are / were the root of progressive metal and the other two the followers. I don't think it's deragotary at all, but I may be wrong.
B.Lee
On a side note, if the music released by SoA had been that good, nobody would have been talking about mischievous tweets for the past 15 pages or so, thay would have been talking about the music itself (more than they have at least).
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Yea, that seems like a logical progression of the progressive metal that MP is involved with. Obviously DT is still in the present, but their success seems to have been in the past and Haken are a current band, but they are celebrating 10 years so they were also clearly in the past as well, but they are currently in their biggest state, and then of course the prediction of Next to None who are also in the present, and he believes they are the future of the genre (I disagree there). I don't see anything wrong with that post personally.
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Yea, that seems like a logical progression of the progressive metal that MP is involved with. Obviously DT is still in the present, but their success seems to have been in the past and Haken are a current band, but they are celebrating 10 years so they were also clearly in the past as well, but they are currently in their biggest state, and then of course the prediction of Next to None who are also in the present, and he believes they are the future of the genre (I disagree there). I don't see anything wrong with that post personally.
Ok. :) I'll move on.
Besides we all know Sons of Apollo is the future of prog metal.
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Yea, that seems like a logical progression of the progressive metal that MP is involved with. Obviously DT is still in the present, but their success seems to have been in the past and Haken are a current band, but they are celebrating 10 years so they were also clearly in the past as well, but they are currently in their biggest state, and then of course the prediction of Next to None who are also in the present, and he believes they are the future of the genre (I disagree there). I don't see anything wrong with that post personally.
What he said.
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It remains to be seen whether Sons of Apollo make music that is considered relevant.
Given what we heard from the first single, I'm thinking not. And the only reason it seems anyone is talking about them at all is because Derek Sherinian is a troll on social media.
I don't understand this conversation. Why should we care what's popular or "considered relevant"? (by who, anyway?). Shouldn't we care about whether it's good or not?
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More like whether we like it (individually) or not. That's all that matters.
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It's relevant. If it's popular, we'll get more of it. Not the usual 1-2 albums, then turn the page.
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It's relevant. If it's popular, we'll get more of it. Not the usual 1-2 albums, then turn the page.
Right, I think that's why it's somewhat important to the conversation. If SoA somehow break out of the prog metal niche, they'll probably be around longer. If they don't, then like you said, you'll probably just have the 1 or 2 albums with tours and then nothing.
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I know I have been a part of the discussion here regarding how they are hyping this album but beyond this and the mp forum where the chatter is even less I'm not seeing this band make the rounds on other forums and sites and to me it speaks of a generational shift. The music they are making seems decidedly old school and while there is nothing wrong with that there's a whole generation of newer bands infintitely more suited to breaking out than this band. I think their popularity being a bunch of guys in their 50's and 60's will come from a very defined group that is already largely cornered by DT and others so I'm with the others who are thinking 1 or 2 albums tops.
And I'm not saying this to denigrate them, I'll still check the full thing out but it's just more of a feeling of how this will play out for them.
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You may be right, but it's hard to make that conclusion without hearing more of the music to say it's old school.
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I know I have been a part of the discussion here regarding how they are hyping this album but beyond this and the mp forum where the chatter is even less I'm not seeing this band make the rounds on other forums and sites and to me it speaks of a generational shift. The music they are making seems decidedly old school and while there is nothing wrong with that there's a whole generation of newer bands infintitely more suited to breaking out than this band. I think their popularity being a bunch of guys in their 50's and 60's will come from a very defined group that is already largely cornered by DT and others so I'm with the others who are thinking 1 or 2 albums tops.
And I'm not saying this to denigrate them, I'll still check the full thing out but it's just more of a feeling of how this will play out for them.
I've got the same feeling. I actually was just perusing Blabbermouth which I actually don't do that much. Scrolling through the facebook feed I saw a thing about SoA and it only had 5 comments (one from Derek making fun of a posters criticism). It surprised me because almost every other article had dozens or maybe hundreds of comments. SoA had five.
I had assumed SoA would be as successful as Winery Dogs which had decent success. Now I'm not so sure. Doesn't seem to be getting much buzz good or bad.
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They'll sell a couple thousand copies, make one, maybe two albums, and then it'll be over. This is a supergroup that just won't last. We should just enjoy the tunes when they come and not be surprised when it's over. Mike will move on to 10 other bands in order to support his lifestyle (this isn't a dig, it's just a fact of observation, the guy is a millionaire and lives luxuriously so he needs to pay for it somehow). But there is *no* buzz about this anywhere beyond the immediate members' realms which is pretty small.
Again, we should just enjoy the tunes when they arrive and be thankful we're getting them at all... I'm not buying it out of principle, but I'll definitely listen. Would rather have Winery Dogs 3 and Flying Colors 3 anyway
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the guy is a millionaire
Possible, but I highly doubt it.
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the guy is a millionaire
Possible, but I highly doubt it.
I'm probably overstating it, but I do know his net worth is around 8 million, and I've seen his house, car, and pool o_o
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They'll sell a couple thousand copies, make one, maybe two albums, and then it'll be over. This is a supergroup that just won't last. We should just enjoy the tunes when they come and not be surprised when it's over. Mike will move on to 10 other bands in order to support his lifestyle (this isn't a dig, it's just a fact of observation, the guy is a millionaire and lives luxuriously so he needs to pay for it somehow). But there is *no* buzz about this anywhere beyond the immediate members' realms which is pretty small.
Again, we should just enjoy the tunes when they arrive and be thankful we're getting them at all... I'm not buying it out of principle, but I'll definitely listen. Would rather have Winery Dogs 3 and Flying Colors 3 anyway
I am not buying it either. Don't like the negativity. I did buy the first two Flying Colors and the 1st Winery Dogs though. I think out of all of his post DT bands Flying Colors is really special, especially the 1st one.
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I had assumed SoA would be as successful as Winery Dogs which had decent success. Now I'm not so sure. Doesn't seem to be getting much buzz good or bad.
Winery Dogs have more of a classic rock type of sound, that music is appealing to a much larger audience and I believe that is why that band had success (well the music was good too, but it had larger potential due to style).
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the guy is a millionaire
Possible, but I highly doubt it.
I'm probably overstating it, but I do know his net worth is around 8 million, and I've seen his house, car, and pool o_o
:lol I don't think so. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
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I've seen his pool and the shenanigans from Ray of Haken. :lol
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the guy is a millionaire
Possible, but I highly doubt it.
I'm probably overstating it, but I do know his net worth is around 8 million, and I've seen his house, car, and pool o_o
:lol I don't think so. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
I only believed it after seeing a mansion-like house on a hill. I suppose it makes sense that I'm wrong, I live in the country therefore have no clue. :lol
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the guy is a millionaire
Possible, but I highly doubt it.
I'm probably overstating it, but I do know his net worth is around 8 million, and I've seen his house, car, and pool o_o
:lol I don't think so. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
I only believed it after seeing a mansion-like house on a hill. I suppose it makes sense that I'm wrong, I live in the country therefore have no clue. :lol
Nah, he is definitely a millionaire. He shares pictures of his house on twitter and that type of house in his location is approaching 1M alone. I doubt he is worth 8M though.
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The music released thus far sounds merely satisfactory to me. Nothing more. I'll spin it on Spotify on release and see if it grabs me more but I doubt it will.
I love Mike's playing. And Derek's. But they both have made themselves look pretty bad with their comments in the last little while. This kind of thing does affect how I feel about music - to a greater degree than I'd like, tbh. I'm not really very interested in it now.
Also Sons Of Apollo is a really poor name. (What, it's meant to appeal to Greek Classical Studies dorks?) :lol As is Winery Dogs. And Adrenaline Mob.
Meh.
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the guy is a millionaire
Possible, but I highly doubt it.
I'm probably overstating it, but I do know his net worth is around 8 million, and I've seen his house, car, and pool o_o
:lol I don't think so. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
What? Are you saying MP might not also be Jewish?!?!?
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the guy is a millionaire
Possible, but I highly doubt it.
I'm probably overstating it, but I do know his net worth is around 8 million, and I've seen his house, car, and pool o_o
:lol I don't think so. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
I only believed it after seeing a mansion-like house on a hill. I suppose it makes sense that I'm wrong, I live in the country therefore have no clue. :lol
Nah, he is definitely a millionaire. He shares pictures of his house on twitter and that type of house in his location is approaching 1M alone. I doubt he is worth 8M though.
Not that it matters, but I think people are too loose with their definition of a millionaire. I doubt any of the members of DT are millionaires. They make a very good and very comfortable living, of course they give up a lot of comfort for that lifestyle in their constant traveling and whatnot, but I doubt any of them have more than a million in the bank. If you mean they that they have more than 1 million dollars in assets, sure, I'd believe it.
There was an interesting interview Mike did with Metal Sludge a while ago. Don't know if it's still online. It was around the SFAM era so they were just starting to make a really comfortable living but one of the questions was "What's the biggest check you've ever received." He said that the way DT runs as a business is to take all their earnings and then pay it out in the form of paychecks. So basically they were receiving a salary which I bet went up as they earned more. So it's not like they finish a tour and say "ok, here's everyone's split."
Regardless, they are all living a pretty good life.
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Yea, totally. I take it in assets which some of is publicly available. It's MP's business and his business only as to what he has in the bank. Which I am not speculating.
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I've always been curious about how musicians get paid. Aside from their endorsements....like tour $$? Is it such and such % each venue goes to the band? Is it up front like here's $$ for the band and the however many shows they'll play? Is it a guaranteed figure for each show per person?
I'd imagine with his endorsements and multiple bands throughout the years MP is sitting pretty. Even the DT guys most likely are living a very comfortable life....I mean, it's been said that Myung and MP live merely houses away from one another so JMX must be doing well also.
Just really intrigued about how these guys go about making a living.
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From what I understand, smaller bands get a percentage of ticket sales and larger bands get a guaranteed figure per gig. Not sure which category DT falls under, but I guess probably the latter. MP is probably somewhere in between depending on the gig and venue (Mike Portnoy's Shattered Fortress at Prog Cruise vs Neal Morse Band at small performing arts theater in Denver).
The thing with MP, JP, and JR is that they seem to have several revenue streams such as endorsements and phone apps. I imagine a few of Portnoy's side projects also paid really well, namely A7X and Twisted Sister.
Anyway, dunno what the big deal is with whether SOA has longevity or how "relevant" they are. The last one is really a non issue, they're a bunch of middle aged guys playing prog. :lol If the fans like the album and want more, I see no reason to think they won't do more. But lets hear the album first before trying to figure that out.
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It remains to be seen whether Sons of Apollo make music that is considered relevant.
Given what we heard from the first single, I'm thinking not. And the only reason it seems anyone is talking about them at all is because Derek Sherinian is a troll on social media.
I don't understand this conversation. Why should we care what's popular or "considered relevant"? (by who, anyway?). Shouldn't we care about whether it's good or not?
I doubt they achieve an album that is considered relevant among their own niche fans when all is said and done. An album that is relevant to the greater music industry would be nothing short of a miracle ;D
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My interview is today!! I'm excited as hell. I've noted your questions and I'll try to ask them. I'm a bit afraid knowing that they want to depart from DT (have you seen the new documentary on Planet X, where Mike says that it was the other members' fault if Derek was fired...) and that they have started a one way competition witht the band. Hopefully everything will turn great. Stay tuned for the interview ;)
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(have you seen the new documentary on Planet X, where Mike says that it was the other members' fault if Derek was fired...)
Mike and JP play with Jordan in LTE, and it's LaBrie and Myung that go "dudes, why don't we get that keyboardist in the band?" :D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_zeR1rc59E
In this documentary, around 8:30 mark? MP didn't say that.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_zeR1rc59E
In this documentary, around 8:30 mark? MP didn't say that.
Yeah he really didn't but kinda hinted that he was cool with Derek, but whatever. My biggest takeaway from that doc is that DS apparently has had this "competitive" fire against DT since they fired him way back in the day. I honestly had no clue that was the case.
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I understood that he was closer to Derek on a personal level more than the other members. But he indicates that the other guys got along well with Derek too, although mentioning some general personal differences, apparently not crucial to dismiss Derek. But nowhere near blaming the decision to dismiss Derek only to them. IMO which it would very hipocrite to MP to allege that.
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Wasn't it MP that wanted a more progressive keyboard player and working with JR on LTE helped that conclusion? Or was that the way JP felt as well? I can't remember.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_zeR1rc59E
In this documentary, around 8:30 mark? MP didn't say that.
Yeah he really didn't but kinda hinted that he was cool with Derek, but whatever. My biggest takeaway from that doc is that DS apparently has had this "competitive" fire against DT since they fired him way back in the day. I honestly had no clue that was the case.
It was mentioned a fair bit earlier in this thread (in the context of why he started Planet X), but yeah before that I wasn't aware of it either.
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Regardless of the back and forth about the insulting Twitter prods and other non music related on goings.....the fact of the matter for me is the sample music that has been released thus far has done nothing to entice me to listen to it. It hasn't peeked my interest and in fact...to my ears....sounds like a mish mash of cliche' riffs and screams, sounds etc.
I'll still listen to the album on the chance that the epic they've spoken about is knock down great and with that assortment of talent there HAS to be some cool output on this album. I just really question what has been given to us to wet our appetites. I'd expect the teasers to be an appetizer and IMO all we've gotten is the standard warm glass of water when you first sit down at the table.
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They'll sell a couple thousand copies, make one, maybe two albums, and then it'll be over.
(https://focalpointinvestigations.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/fortune.jpg)
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They'll sell a couple thousand copies, make one, maybe two albums, and then it'll be over.
(https://focalpointinvestigations.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/fortune.jpg)
Two weeks
Twwwooo weeekss
A cookie to whoever gets the reference.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_zeR1rc59E
In this documentary, around 8:30 mark? MP didn't say that.
Yeah he really didn't but kinda hinted that he was cool with Derek, but whatever. My biggest takeaway from that doc is that DS apparently has had this "competitive" fire against DT since they fired him way back in the day. I honestly had no clue that was the case.
Yes, he seemed to have a bit of an ax to grind. Some of the Planet X music sounds very complicated and cool but not much repeat value.
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They'll sell a couple thousand copies, make one, maybe two albums, and then it'll be over.
(https://focalpointinvestigations.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/fortune.jpg)
:lol :lol :lol
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the guy is a millionaire
Possible, but I highly doubt it.
I'm probably overstating it, but I do know his net worth is around 8 million, and I've seen his house, car, and pool o_o
:lol I don't think so. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
I only believed it after seeing a mansion-like house on a hill. I suppose it makes sense that I'm wrong, I live in the country therefore have no clue. :lol
Nah, he is definitely a millionaire. He shares pictures of his house on twitter and that type of house in his location is approaching 1M alone. I doubt he is worth 8M though.
Well, yeah, "millionaire" implies that he actually has a net worth (i.e., total assets minus total liabilities) in excess of $1M. And it is possible he does. I can't say. But a huge house alone doesn't tell the story. If the house is worth, say, $1.5M, but he has a $1M balance on his mortgage, the net value of his home is only $500k.
Does he have a million in net assets? I guess it wouldn't surprise me. I would guess a bit shy of that, but I obviously don't know. Does he have $8 million? Possible, but I highly doubt it. Those "net worth" sites don't have all the facts when they project what somebody's "net worth" is. And when it comes to entertainers, especially musicians, the math gets really fuzzy. For instance, they may value his share of future royalties from Images & Words at $1M. Does that mean he will see $1M in royalties from I&W? Maybe; maybe not. Does that mean he could liquidate that asset right now and actually have $1M? Absolutely not.
Bottom line is, we're all just speculating, but it's silly and probably very wrong to assume that just because he has a lot of stuff and toured with A7X that he has millions in net assets.
Anyway, sorry for that tangent. Now back to SoA: I liked the clip. It doesn't give away a lot. But it's pretty good. Consistent with the first song that was released. I can say that, as far as the music, I'm definitely interested. Can't say how much I will ultimately like or it whether it will have any lasting staying power. Time will tell. But it's enough that I am interested for sure.
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I heard in a podcast with Derek that all members have cleared their schedules in 2018 to allow for touring with Sons of Apollo. But isn't Mike also recording Metal Allegiance II and Flying Colors III? I know that FC tours albeit for shorter periods, so how will this work?
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I heard in a podcast with Derek that all members have cleared their schedules in 2018 to allow for touring with Sons of Apollo. But isn't Mike also recording Metal Allegiance II and Flying Colors III? I know that FC tours albeit for shorter periods, so how will this work?
My bet is that he'll focus on SOA for most of 2018, but when 2019 comes, he'll go back to touring with his other bands.
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I heard in a podcast with Derek that all members have cleared their schedules in 2018 to allow for touring with Sons of Apollo. But isn't Mike also recording Metal Allegiance II and Flying Colors III? I know that FC tours albeit for shorter periods, so how will this work?
Mike always finds a way. The past clearly shows that he has a thing for finding the perfect timeframe for everything so I wouldn't worry about that.
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I heard in a podcast with Derek that all members have cleared their schedules in 2018 to allow for touring with Sons of Apollo. But isn't Mike also recording Metal Allegiance II and Flying Colors III? I know that FC tours albeit for shorter periods, so how will this work?
In his own words from his twitter a few weeks ago I think.
One has nothing to do with the other...haven't I proved I'm more than capable of juggling them ALL??
SOA, TWD, NMB, FC, TA, MA, TSF, TS, etc
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I heard in a podcast with Derek that all members have cleared their schedules in 2018 to allow for touring with Sons of Apollo. But isn't Mike also recording Metal Allegiance II and Flying Colors III? I know that FC tours albeit for shorter periods, so how will this work?
Metal Allegiance has never been a touring outfit, moreso something that happens when it works out with enough people's main bands being booked in festivals. Their first album release just saw two nights worth of shows in NYC. If I remember correctly, the FC tour for the second album was fairly brief. They could probably fit a run of shows in between more substantial North America and Europe tours for SoA.
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I've come back from my interview with the guys. It will be published in October (near the release date). It was a lot of fun. We talked about the tweets and Derek said that it was just some off-beat humour.
However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
We've got some great news concerning the setlist and a great description of all the tracks.
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We've got some great news concerning the setlist
Oh great, they're playing Lines in the Sand then????
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We've got some great news concerning the setlist and a great description of all the tracks.
Sounds really cool! I'm tempted to ask you to provide some details. But reading between the lines, it sounds like you need to keep some of that under wraps until the appropriate time.
However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
:rollin That would be hilarious.
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I've come back from my interview with the guys. It will be published in October (near the release date). It was a lot of fun. We talked about the tweets and Derek said that it was just some off-beat humour.
However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
We've got some great news concerning the setlist and a great description of all the tracks.
Awesome, excited to see/read the interview.
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However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
:rollin That would be hilarious.
About as hilarious as them talking shit about the fans, then whining when the fans do the same. If Mike followed his own forum rules, he would have banned himself a long time ago.
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However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
:rollin That would be hilarious.
About as hilarious as them talking shit about the fans, then whining when the fans do the same. If Mike followed his own forum rules, he would have banned himself a long time ago.
Not enough +1 in the world for this
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I heard in a podcast with Derek that all members have cleared their schedules in 2018 to allow for touring with Sons of Apollo. But isn't Mike also recording Metal Allegiance II and Flying Colors III? I know that FC tours albeit for shorter periods, so how will this work?
Metal Allegiance has never been a touring outfit, moreso something that happens when it works out with enough people's main bands being booked in festivals. Their first album release just saw two nights worth of shows in NYC. If I remember correctly, the FC tour for the second album was fairly brief. They could probably fit a run of shows in between more substantial North America and Europe tours for SoA.
I'd be surprised if those two writing/recording sessions take more than a fortnight with the way they work. And FC has Neil Morse 😀
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I'd be surprised if those two writing/recording sessions take more than a fortnight with the way they work. And FC has Neil Morse 😀
Indeed... and I for one wish they would take more time and really work until they have something great. What I have heard of Sons of Apollo makes me think it could have become much better given a few more weeks.
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I heard in a podcast with Derek that all members have cleared their schedules in 2018 to allow for touring with Sons of Apollo. But isn't Mike also recording Metal Allegiance II and Flying Colors III? I know that FC tours albeit for shorter periods, so how will this work?
Mike always finds a way. The past clearly shows that he has a thing for finding the perfect timeframe for everything so I wouldn't worry about that.
Well.... the way he does that are usually those one-week "write, record,produce" sessions. I personally feel that while it allows him to juggle 5 bands at once, it eventually harms the product.
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I heard in a podcast with Derek that all members have cleared their schedules in 2018 to allow for touring with Sons of Apollo. But isn't Mike also recording Metal Allegiance II and Flying Colors III? I know that FC tours albeit for shorter periods, so how will this work?
Mike always finds a way. The past clearly shows that he has a thing for finding the perfect timeframe for everything so I wouldn't worry about that.
Well.... the way he does that are usually those one-week "write, record,produce" sessions. I personally feel that while it allows him to juggle 5 bands at once, it eventually harms the product.
My game was off when I was dating 3 girls in my 20's. My quality was off juggling all 3. :lol
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They'll sell a couple thousand copies, make one, maybe two albums, and then it'll be over.
(https://focalpointinvestigations.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/fortune.jpg)
They will also record the second album in the basement of the Alamo.
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I heard in a podcast with Derek that all members have cleared their schedules in 2018 to allow for touring with Sons of Apollo. But isn't Mike also recording Metal Allegiance II and Flying Colors III? I know that FC tours albeit for shorter periods, so how will this work?
At the meet and greet for Morsefest last week, the other members of the Neal Morse Band reportedly confirmed that there will be a new album from them sometime in 2018, with Portnoy saying he would find a way and the time to make it work.
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I heard in a podcast with Derek that all members have cleared their schedules in 2018 to allow for touring with Sons of Apollo. But isn't Mike also recording Metal Allegiance II and Flying Colors III? I know that FC tours albeit for shorter periods, so how will this work?
At the meet and greet for Morsefest last week, the other members of the Neal Morse Band reportedly confirmed that there will be a new album from them sometime in 2018, with Portnoy saying he would find a way and the time to make it work.
With technology being so good these days they are sharing the musical ideas via email and what not anyway. On one of the 'making of' DVDs from Neal's albums.....I think it was Momentums.....per the conversation within I ascertained that by the time MP shows up he has a pretty good idea of how the songs are shaping up and 'what' he's going to record for those songs.
There is certainly still some on site writing involved but when MP, Billy, And Eric show up they have a good idea and direction they know they're taking.
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In his own words from his twitter a few weeks ago I think.
One has nothing to do with the other...haven't I proved I'm more than capable of juggling them ALL??
SOA, TWD, NMB, FC, TA, MA, TSF, TS, etc
AMOB?
However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
Nicolas comes back as a zombie to have his revenge on the hypnotherapist?
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I love Mike's playing. And Derek's. But they both have made themselves look pretty bad with their comments in the last little while. This kind of thing does affect how I feel about music - to a greater degree than I'd like, tbh. I'm not really very interested in it now.
Don't feel bad, how can it *not* affect you? There are many of us who feel the same way.
The only thing I feel bad about is that the other guys won't be getting my support all cuz of one person and that's not fair to them but that's what happens when people think their actions have no consequences.
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However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
:rollin That would be hilarious.
I actually think this *would* be hilarious (and awesome)... if only someone hadn't destroyed any kind of friendship that could have been mutually beneficial and a lot of fun with a friendly rivalry and trash talk.
When DS and CD both came back and played on WDADRU I remember thinking how awesome it is that they can all remain friends and still play music together. Oh well, it could have been so great for everyone... musicians, fans, media. Oh well.
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I wouldn't put it past SOA to very take various creative jabs at Dream Theater. Just observing MP and DS, and what they say and write publicly, I could absolutely see them doing something. They wouldn't seriously do Metropolis Pt. 3. But I could see them building off an old DT tune, using a lyric line MP wrote as a new song title to draw the connection, and revisiting motifs of an old song in the new track.
They'd probably couch it as a nod to the fans to be politically correct, but we're not dumb, obviously it would have a double meaning. :lol
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Well, they could do a 60 seconds instrumental and call it M3tropolis, or something like that ;D
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However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
:rollin That would be hilarious.
I actually think this *would* be hilarious (and awesome)... if only someone hadn't destroyed any kind of friendship that could have been mutually beneficial and a lot of fun with a friendly rivalry and trash talk.
When DS and CD both came back and played on WDADRU I remember thinking how awesome it is that they can all remain friends and still play music together. Oh well, it could have been so great for everyone... musicians, fans, media. Oh well.
The big difference is DT will go down in Prog history and Sons of Apollo will go down as another side MP project with AMOB, Flying Colors, Winery Dogs....
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However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
:rollin That would be hilarious.
I actually think this *would* be hilarious (and awesome)... if only someone hadn't destroyed any kind of friendship that could have been mutually beneficial and a lot of fun with a friendly rivalry and trash talk.
When DS and CD both came back and played on WDADRU I remember thinking how awesome it is that they can all remain friends and still play music together. Oh well, it could have been so great for everyone... musicians, fans, media. Oh well.
The big difference is DT will go down in Prog history and Sons of Apollo will go down as another side MP project with AMOB, Flying Colors, Winery Dogs....
Couln't have said it better.
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You guys are being so grumpy. :lol
EDIT: To clarify, I'm not talking about everyone, or about being critical in general. Plenty of valid points being made, but also a disproportionate amount of grumpiness too.
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However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
:rollin That would be hilarious.
I actually think this *would* be hilarious (and awesome)... if only someone hadn't destroyed any kind of friendship that could have been mutually beneficial and a lot of fun with a friendly rivalry and trash talk.
When DS and CD both came back and played on WDADRU I remember thinking how awesome it is that they can all remain friends and still play music together. Oh well, it could have been so great for everyone... musicians, fans, media. Oh well.
The big difference is DT will go down in Prog history and Sons of Apollo will go down as another side MP project with AMOB, Flying Colors, Winery Dogs....
Seems to me MP will be delighted if DT ends up in "Prog history" since he was such a huge part of their success...
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You guys are being so grumpy. :lol
No kidding. I get it's a discussion forum but comments are being rehashed time and time again.
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You guys are being so grumpy. :lol
No kidding. I get it's a discussion forum but comments are being rehashed time and time again.
I admit I come across as grumpy some times.
Admitting you have a problem is the 1st step to recovery. :)
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You guys are being so grumpy. :lol
No kidding. I get it's a discussion forum but comments are being rehashed time and time again.
I admit I come across as grumpy some times.
Admitting you have a problem is the 1st step to recovery. :)
Does your last name start with W?
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However they made some references to DT that were hilarious (like concidering to do a Metropolis pt 3 just to piss the overzealous fans off).
:rollin That would be hilarious.
I actually think this *would* be hilarious (and awesome)... if only someone hadn't destroyed any kind of friendship that could have been mutually beneficial and a lot of fun with a friendly rivalry and trash talk.
When DS and CD both came back and played on WDADRU I remember thinking how awesome it is that they can all remain friends and still play music together. Oh well, it could have been so great for everyone... musicians, fans, media. Oh well.
The big difference is DT will go down in Prog history and Sons of Apollo will go down as another side MP project with AMOB, Flying Colors, Winery Dogs....
Seems to me MP will be delighted if DT ends up in "Prog history" since he was such a huge part of their success...
Agreed. He was a big part of their success. I truthfully think he thought they would fail without him though.
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You guys are being so grumpy. :lol
No kidding. I get it's a discussion forum but comments are being rehashed time and time again.
I admit I come across as grumpy some times.
Admitting you have a problem is the 1st step to recovery. :)
Does your last name start with W?
No.
(https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/laughterandsurvivalinbipolaritaville63885/imageproxy.php?url=https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Raynib9/Topic%20Icons/hangman1.gif)
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Aww, I thought it was a clever AA reference. Ah well.
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Aww, I thought it was a clever AA reference. Ah well.
It actually was. :)
It struck me after I sent my image.
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:lol
Bill your avatar suits you then!
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:lol
Bill your avatar suits you then!
Yes, I guess for this topic. :) ...I mean >:(
That is my avatar for my fantasy baseball team and I figure what the heck use it here as well.
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I wouldn't put it past SOA to very take various creative jabs at Dream Theater. Just observing MP and DS, and what they say and write publicly, I could absolutely see them doing something. They wouldn't seriously do Metropolis Pt. 3. But I could see them building off an old DT tune, using a lyric line MP wrote as a new song title to draw the connection, and revisiting motifs of an old song in the new track.
They'd probably couch it as a nod to the fans to be politically correct, but we're not dumb, obviously it would have a double meaning. :lol
They could do Metropolis pt. 3... fine... I couldn't think of a more vapid creative exercise tbh.
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If they really wanted to be bold they would do Metropolis 4 so they would leave everyone wondering when there was going to be a Metropolis 3.
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If they really wanted to be bold they would do Metropolis 4 so they would leave everyone wondering when there was going to be a Metropolis 3.
This is trolling on the next level :lol
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I love Mike's playing. And Derek's. But they both have made themselves look pretty bad with their comments in the last little while. This kind of thing does affect how I feel about music - to a greater degree than I'd like, tbh. I'm not really very interested in it now.
Don't feel bad, how can it *not* affect you? There are many of us who feel the same way.
The only thing I feel bad about is that the other guys won't be getting my support all cuz of one person and that's not fair to them but that's what happens when people think their actions have no consequences.
It's always been that way with me. And these days, with so much music to explore and musicians being so accessible, I guess cracks and traits are more obvious.
I do seriously love Mike's drumming though. Just so we don't forget that.
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I love Mike's playing. And Derek's. But they both have made themselves look pretty bad with their comments in the last little while. This kind of thing does affect how I feel about music - to a greater degree than I'd like, tbh. I'm not really very interested in it now.
Don't feel bad, how can it *not* affect you? There are many of us who feel the same way.
The only thing I feel bad about is that the other guys won't be getting my support all cuz of one person and that's not fair to them but that's what happens when people think their actions have no consequences.
It's always been that way with me. And these days, with so much music to explore and musicians being so accessible, I guess cracks and traits are more obvious.
I do seriously love Mike's drumming though. Just so we don't forget that.
I'll just add that's the way it works for everyone. If anyone tells you they can separate what they know about musicians entirely from the music they produce and not let it affect their listening experience in some way, you know you're dealing with someone not introspective enough to realize that is simply impossible. They deny their very humanity. The subjective experience makes perfect compartmentalization an unattainable ideal. Even image affects our opinions of bands and, in some way, their music. I mean, Therion was way cooler before they started dressing like losers too lame to gain admittance to a steam punk convention, right?
If Decapitated was your favorite band, would you be as psyched for their next album as you were last week...?
Anyway, this is why I try to learn as little as possible about actors or writers I like. It can be more difficult with musicians when you spend too much time on goddamn forums. I'll never get over finding out one of my favorite musicians and lyricists, Paul Craddick, is a pseudo-intellectual tool of the worst kind.
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I'll just add that's the way it works for everyone. If anyone tells you they can separate what they know about musicians entirely from the music they produce and not let it affect their listening experience in some way, you know you're dealing with someone not introspective enough to realize that is simply impossible. They deny their very humanity. The subjective experience makes perfect compartmentalization an unattainable ideal. Even image affects our opinions of bands and, in some way, their music. I mean, Therion was way cooler before they started dressing like losers too lame to gain admittance to a steam punk convention, right?
If Decapitated was your favorite band, would you be as psyched for their next album as you were last week...?
Anyway, this is why I try to learn as little as possible about actors or writers I like. It can be more difficult with musicians when you spend too much time on goddamn forums. I'll never get over finding out one of my favorite musicians and lyricists, Paul Craddick, is a pseudo-intellectual tool of the worst kind.
I almost agree with you, i think there could be people who can separate both things, tbh It's not the case for me. I see what you're saying, for example, when many people prefer metal bands where the musicians look like "real" metalheads. Many people dismiss metal musicians when they are short-haired/obese/etc or if they're not wearing "metal" clothes. Maybe this is more true in the local scenes, or at least that's what I've observed here in Mexico. Maybe it's not exactly what we are discussing, but going back to the subject, i think it's difficult (at least for me) to separate the impression I'm getting (because of the tweets) and my excitement about the upcoming SoA's album.
A couple of days ago I saw MP's SF live in Mexico and I know that my excitement about watching MP play wasn't what it would usually be (he was my favorite drummer for a long time, before I listen to Mangini and some others), and I know it's because of everything he's been writing online. I was far more excited about Haken (they were the opening act that night). Of course it was awesome to hear those DT songs and the band put a great show (Eric Gillete is awesome!). It was the same situation for me when I saw The Neal Morse Band in june.
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I don't think it's that black and white. I haven't been a fan of Mike Portnoy the person since the early 00s, yet I still have bought tons of CDs he has been a part of, and quite a few of them released since then would be on my list of all-time favorites. I think Eddie Van Halen is a piece of maggot shit, but I still enjoyed the heck out of the last album they released (and can still listen to VH and enjoy it without letting my dislike of EVH the person get in the way).
Now, when it comes to live shows, that is a little different. I had no interest in traveling to see Dream Theater from 2003-2010, but I have done so twice in the Mangini era (Chicago and KC, both on the DT12 tour). And I will never spend another cent to see Van Halen live (unless EVH makes serious amends with Michael Anthony and includes him).
This might make some of you laugh. but at Morsefest last week, when they were doing the end of show applauses for each individual member of the Neal Morse band, my brother (who doesn't pay attention to any online silliness, but simply thinks Portnoy is annoying because of the way he acts at live shows) and I both loudly clapped and hooted and hollered for Neal, Bill, Eric and Randy. For Portnoy, we left our arms at our sides and stayed silent. He didn't deserve our applause. :lol :lol
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Kev bringing politics back in the music. LOL
Samantha whatever said I don't like Mike the person I still fall on cuz I love the music he does and I love his playing and can separate both.
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Um, what? :lol :lol
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Time to bust out the Kingshmegland decoder ring.
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Goddammit. :lol
I should look before I hit send. LOL What I was trying to say is I can separate what I don't like about Mike online compared to the music. I still follow his music. I just don't pay attention to his online narrative.
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I almost agree with you, i think there could be people who can separate both things, tbh It's not the case for me. I see what you're saying, for example, when many people prefer metal bands where the musicians look like "real" metalheads. Many people dismiss metal musicians when they are short-haired/obese/etc or if they're not wearing "metal" clothes. Maybe this is more true in the local scenes, or at least that's what I've observed here in Mexico. Maybe it's not exactly what we are discussing, but going back to the subject, i think it's difficult (at least for me) to separate the impression I'm getting (because of the tweets) and my excitement about the upcoming SoA's album.
I suppose there could be individuals who can wholly separate things, but they are far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired. I know musicians not looking as metal affects my experience, though. I'm going to enjoy a concert a little bit more if all the guys on stage look badass or otherwise fit my definition of 'cool' (which fluctuates by genre). It's absolutely shallow, but it's the animal in me (and all of us). At the same time, someone into nu metal or djent or whatever is popular now might be thrown off by the looks I think are cool ('these guys look like '90s throwbacks'). Likewise, if someone thinks Dream Theater looks best with bald Jordan and inhabitable beard JP, then they're not going to agree with me that they looked cooler in the '90s, and we're going to have differing ideal concert experiences.
Whatever your personal ideas of how a band should look (or do anything else), it's classic bias based on past experience and it's in all of us. It's not much of a detriment to society when it comes to something trivial like our perception of musicians and their output, but it's a bias which we're better people if we suppress when it comes to people who look a certain way in every day life... It's often a moral decision to suppress ancient survival instincts, but it's not possible to do it perfectly.
I don't think it's that black and white. I haven't been a fan of Mike Portnoy the person since the early 00s, yet I still have bought tons of CDs he has been a part of, and quite a few of them released since then would be on my list of all-time favorites. I think Eddie Van Halen is a piece of maggot shit, but I still enjoyed the heck out of the last album they released (and can still listen to VH and enjoy it without letting my dislike of EVH the person get in the way).
What's certain is that it does have some sort of effect, but it's a fine gradient as to how much and the shade can be so light as to be undetectable--but it's always there. Do you think your VH listening experience might be just a little bit more pleasurable if you didn't occasionally find yourself thinking 'Eddie is/was a great writer/player--it's too bad he is also a pile of maggot shit'?
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I don't think it's that black and white. I haven't been a fan of Mike Portnoy the person since the early 00s, yet I still have bought tons of CDs he has been a part of, and quite a few of them released since then would be on my list of all-time favorites. I think Eddie Van Halen is a piece of maggot shit, but I still enjoyed the heck out of the last album they released (and can still listen to VH and enjoy it without letting my dislike of EVH the person get in the way).
What's certain is that it does have some sort of effect, but it's a fine gradient as to how much and the shade can be so light as to be undetectable--but it's always there. Do you think your VH listening experience might be just a little bit more pleasurable if you didn't occasionally find yourself thinking 'Eddie is/was a great writer/player--it's too bad he is also a pile of maggot shit'?
I don't think so. For me, VH is very much of a spring/summer band, and I've probably listened to them more in the last 18 months than I had the prior 15 years COMBINED (which is saying a lot considering how much music I have and how little time I have to get to a lot of it). Certain VH songs and albums I like way more than I used to. EVH is a douche, but when the music starts playing, I can almost always tune that out and just :metal.
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I'll just add that's the way it works for everyone. If anyone tells you they can separate what they know about musicians entirely from the music they produce and not let it affect their listening experience in some way, you know you're dealing with someone not introspective enough to realize that is simply impossible. They deny their very humanity. The subjective experience makes perfect compartmentalization an unattainable ideal. Even image affects our opinions of bands and, in some way, their music. I mean, Therion was way cooler before they started dressing like losers too lame to gain admittance to a steam punk convention, right?
If Decapitated was your favorite band, would you be as psyched for their next album as you were last week...?
Anyway, this is why I try to learn as little as possible about actors or writers I like. It can be more difficult with musicians when you spend too much time on goddamn forums. I'll never get over finding out one of my favorite musicians and lyricists, Paul Craddick, is a pseudo-intellectual tool of the worst kind.
I almost agree with you, i think there could be people who can separate both things, tbh It's not the case for me. I see what you're saying, for example, when many people prefer metal bands where the musicians look like "real" metalheads. Many people dismiss metal musicians when they are short-haired/obese/etc or if they're not wearing "metal" clothes. Maybe this is more true in the local scenes, or at least that's what I've observed here in Mexico. Maybe it's not exactly what we are discussing, but going back to the subject, i think it's difficult (at least for me) to separate the impression I'm getting (because of the tweets) and my excitement about the upcoming SoA's album.
A couple of days ago I saw MP's SF live in Mexico and I know that my excitement about watching MP play wasn't what it would usually be (he was my favorite drummer for a long time, before I listen to Mangini and some others), and I know it's because of everything he's been writing online. I was far more excited about Haken (they were the opening act that night). Of course it was awesome to hear those DT songs and the band put a great show (Eric Gillete is awesome!). It was the same situation for me when I saw The Neal Morse Band in june.
I haven't seen MP since he left DT. His personality just rubs me the wrong way. Even towards the end of his run with DT but no way was I going to miss DT.
Listening to him in older DT I am able to separate because I think as he became older and more bitter the bad side of him came out more.
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I almost agree with you, i think there could be people who can separate both things, tbh It's not the case for me. I see what you're saying, for example, when many people prefer metal bands where the musicians look like "real" metalheads. Many people dismiss metal musicians when they are short-haired/obese/etc or if they're not wearing "metal" clothes. Maybe this is more true in the local scenes, or at least that's what I've observed here in Mexico. Maybe it's not exactly what we are discussing, but going back to the subject, i think it's difficult (at least for me) to separate the impression I'm getting (because of the tweets) and my excitement about the upcoming SoA's album.
I suppose there could be individuals who can wholly separate things, but they are far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired. I know musicians not looking as metal affects my experience, though. I'm going to enjoy a concert a little bit more if all the guys on stage look badass or otherwise fit my definition of 'cool' (which fluctuates by genre). It's absolutely shallow, but it's the animal in me (and all of us). At the same time, someone into nu metal or djent or whatever is popular now might be thrown off by the looks I think are cool ('these guys look like '90s throwbacks'). Likewise, if someone thinks Dream Theater looks best with bald Jordan and inhabitable beard JP, then they're not going to agree with me that they looked cooler in the '90s, and we're going to have differing ideal concert experiences.
Whatever your personal ideas of how a band should look (or do anything else), it's classic bias based on past experience and it's in all of us. It's not much of a detriment to society when it comes to something trivial like our perception of musicians and their output, but it's a bias which we're better people if we suppress when it comes to people who look a certain way in every day life... It's often a moral decision to suppress ancient survival instincts, but it's not possible to do it perfectly.
I don't think it's that black and white. I haven't been a fan of Mike Portnoy the person since the early 00s, yet I still have bought tons of CDs he has been a part of, and quite a few of them released since then would be on my list of all-time favorites. I think Eddie Van Halen is a piece of maggot shit, but I still enjoyed the heck out of the last album they released (and can still listen to VH and enjoy it without letting my dislike of EVH the person get in the way).
What's certain is that it does have some sort of effect, but it's a fine gradient as to how much and the shade can be so light as to be undetectable--but it's always there. Do you think your VH listening experience might be just a little bit more pleasurable if you didn't occasionally find yourself thinking 'Eddie is/was a great writer/player--it's too bad he is also a pile of maggot shit'?
So, how about you don't call people who see the world differently to you "severely cognitively impaired"?
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I've learned a long long time ago that people who make great music aren't automatically great people, so I try to separate the music from the musicians. I idolize the music, the playing, the skill and musical vision but never the person behind it. And I'm surely interested in the musician as a person, his thoughts, his motivations etc, but I never invest too much "love" (for lack of a better word) in them, because they may turn out as absolute a-holes. Works fine for me.
If I let a musician's behaviour influence my musical linkings I would have to throw away half of my record collection, and keep the rest only because I don't know yet that they are probably as defective as the rest. A lot of my favorite musicians are tools in one way or the other, yet I still like Queensryche, Van Halen, Guns 'n' Roses, Metallica, to name just a few of the obvious ones. And even if I don't like some of MP's past behaviour and Derek's childish tweets, this is completely low level in regards to what the pros of rockstar-jerkism pull of.
So, how about you don't call people who see the world differently to you "severely cognitively impaired"?
And this.
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So, how about you don't call people who see the world differently to you "severely cognitively impaired"?
I'm afraid you misunderstood. I said "far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired". I did not say anyone who isn't neurotypical is severely cognitively impaired. I wasn't speculating about someone who is autistic. I'm talking about someone who is severely brain-damaged, born with a congenital disorder, or had complications in utero so that biasing memories aren't retained or the connections with music otherwise can't be made. That includes no one in this thread--those who think they can perfectly compartmentalize feelings about musicians and their music are mistaken. There's always a biasing effect. Good luck finding a cognitive scientist who would dispute that.
"Severely cognitively impaired" has meaning. It's not coded language for "autistic". Someone born with cerebellar hypoplasia more than likely is and always will be severely cognitively impaired. It's not controversial, it's not a slur, and I could hardly put it in more neutral terms.
If I let a musician's behaviour influence my musical linkings I would have to throw away half of my record collection, and keep the rest only because I don't know yet that they are probably as defective as the rest.
Throw away half your records? I see the fact that this effect is often subtle is lost on you.
And this.
I know you're probably just tagging along, but please see the above just in case you failed to comprehend as well.
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Coming Home is available on streaming platforms :
https://open.spotify.com/track/3ZBRUnu3hugYS22naQyJ7K
https://www.deezer.com/track/403519162?utm_source=deezer&utm_content=track-403519162&utm_term=326664885_1505458308&utm_medium=web
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I suppose there could be individuals who can wholly separate things, but they are far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired.
This is where ariich and I have a problem with. You recognize that there may be some people that can separate the behaviour of a person from the music he makes but they are "probably severely cognitively impaired"
Really? Just because someone has a different opinion or experience on that matter he has probably some kind of brain damage? You have either constructed your post in a way that it can be easily misunderstood or you are just outright insulting.
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If people can find the ability to separate the music from the person and enjoy the music even though they know the person isn't really the greatest guy to be around, great. More power to you. I'm just not that kind of guy that can do that.
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I listen to a song to enjoy the music, and i'm rarely interested about the background of the artist who made it.
I could not care less about what kind of personality quirks the artist has, i'm just there to enjoy the music!
I hope that makes sense!
Now, back to the topic! I really enjoyed the new track! Major Symphony X vibes. More specifically the later era Symphony X..
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I suppose there could be individuals who can wholly separate things, but they are far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired.
This is where ariich and I have a problem with. You recognize that there may be some people that can separate the behaviour of a person from the music he makes but they are "probably severely cognitively impaired"
Really? Just because someone has a different opinion or experience on that matter he has probably some kind of brain damage? You have either constructed your post in a way that it can be easily misunderstood or you are just outright insulting.
Correct.
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Loved the new song! :metal
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Coming Home = AMOB + 80's glam metal with a lot... LOT... of screaming. :yarr
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Love the new track!
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Really cool tune! On this song, Soto vocals really worked!
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Coming Home video, just posted by MP on Facebook:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1N8kVYfkE
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This is looking to be probably the best post-dt MP project, but i really, really don't like JSS.
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This is looking to be probably the best post-dt MP project, but i really, really don't like JSS.
I agree, but something about JSS voice reminds me of Grand Funk Railroad and that is just kind of out of place for a more modern "metal" sounding band.
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Another awesome song! :metal Can't wait for the album to come out!
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Does anyone else get a Thunderstruck vibe from Derek´s keyboards at the beginning?
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The first song atleast had a redeeming instrumental section. This is as generic and boring as it gets.
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The first song atleast had a redeeming instrumental section. This is as generic and boring as it gets.
Agree.
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I like this one less than the first, and I didn't really like the first that much.
I'll still give the full album a go but I have very, very low expectations.
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What a disappointment...
That's some generic ass cock rock right there, right down to the lyrics and title. How many more songs about 'coming home' do we really need? This shit is Chickenfoot 2.0 and no, that is not a good thing at all. Overhyped supergroup with the same radio friendly crap every other band is doing - where is the prog and the metal? That's probably the least interesting synth part Derek's ever played and some generic singing from Soto. I fear the 10 minute songs aren't going to be that 'prog' after all.
EDIT: *waves to Derek on Twitter* hi sweetie
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I like this one less than the first, and I didn't really like the first that much.
I'll still give the full album a go but I have very, very low expectations.
I'm not so sure about that anymore. If it's on my Apple Music I'll check it out but I'm not going out of my way to buy it.
This is as generic and boring as it gets.
No kidding, I'm actually shocked this was even recorded. I'm curious as to if they really think this is a good song? I'm serious. Zero originality all around....structure, sound, drumming, guitar, bass....on and on. I'm confused about this song actually. I'm starting to think it's a trick song and we will hear the real ones when the album is released.
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...I liked it :dunno:
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...I liked it :dunno:
And there's nothing wrong with that. We all know Music is subjective and strikes differently for each of us.
My issue is that the tweets from Derek claiming they were the new 'Kings of Prog' and pitting SOA against DT like they were going to take them out or something. Nothing I've heard from SOA leads me to believe they are the Kings of anything, much less in the same realm at DT when it comes to Prog. I'd be embarrassed if I were Derek after talking smack and then giving us this cut and paste single.
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...I liked it :dunno:
And there's nothing wrong with that. We all know Music is subjective and strikes differently for each of us.
My issue is that the tweets from Derek claiming they were the new 'Kings of Prog' and pitting SOA against DT like they were going to take them out or something. Nothing I've heard from SOA leads me to believe they are the Kings of anything, much less in the same realm at DT when it comes to Prog. I'd be embarrassed if I were Derek after talking smack and then giving us this cut and paste single.
And BINGO was his name-o...
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Forgetting for a minute all the silly tweeting nonsense from MP/DS, that doesn't really increase or decrease my anticipation for the album. What does affect it though has been the string of (in my opinion) mediocre or downright bad releases Mike has been involved in since leaving DT. I'm not counting NMB and TA in this as these were pre-existing projects he was involved in whilst still in DT and they are still releasing quality material (how much Mike has to do with that in terms of song writing is debatable though).
The other stuff though like Adrenaline Mob, Flying Colors, The Winery Dogs and Metal Allegiance have been pretty unsuccessful and have shown that maybe he wasn't such a big deal in Dream Theater after all as he has absolutely not been able to replicate that success anywhere else, not even close. He clearly needs to be working with great songwriters in order to have success as he is not a great songwriter himself and these "super" groups he's involved in are generally with people who are not superstars with the possible exception of Billy Sheehan but he's just a bass player. I did have some hope for Flying Colors as both Steve Morse and Neal Morse were involved but it was not as good as the sum of it's parts and I couldn't get past the forced vocal style of the singer who for some reason takes precedence over Neal in the singing department. I have tried to support Mike in the initial aftermath of his departure and I did buy the debut albums by Adrenaline Mob, Flying Colors and The Winery Dogs but noticeably didn't bother with album number 2 on any of those projects and don't get the impression I missed out despite Mike's hyperbole about how great they were.
There was a time when I would buy a MP release without question during the era of DT, LTE, TA and even OSI but those days have gone and I will have to hear more from SOA before making a purchase. From the little I've heard (and it is very little) it sounds like a very poor mans Falling Into Infinity (again this is my opinion). I have always been a fan of JSS but not sure he still has the pipes anymore, will have to wait and see. I loved him with Yngwie Malmsteen and (talking of great guitar players he's played with and stable gigs) he had a great run with Axel Rudi Pell before his voice started to go and Axel brought in Johnny Gioelli who was even better.
I will definitely give SOA a go and hope Mike can pull off another great prog metal band as we need one after losing the likes of Opeth and Pain of Salvation. I can't say he fills me with much confidence these days though.
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That was not bad although pretty generic and I'm still not really sold on JSS vocals. Not bad singing but not the right fit imo.
But, WHERE IS THE PROG?
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Really disappointed in "The new kings of Prog"..... where is the prog, where are the good songs?
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But, WHERE IS THE PROG?
This is what I am wondering considering the talk.
I feel like at this point my interest in this band is solely relying on the potential of the members and no longer about what I've heard so far.
I enjoy this type of music too, and it's not bad. But it's not that exciting either. I'd rock out to a concert of this music, but this music, which doesn't feel fresh, is not getting me excited for the album.
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Really disappointed in "The new kings of Prog"..... where is the prog, where are the good songs?
They are coming. Mike and Derek described the songs to us and they told us that Signs of Time was chosen because it was diverse and a good way to show all the aspects of the band and Coming Home was more of a straight rock single. But don't worry, you'll get prog. But I think that the album will be more like a classic hard rock album with elements of prog.
Some videos to show you how fun the interview was :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8SYsGqPQgY&feature=youtu.be&a=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaG6BbAP5BY&feature=youtu.be&a=
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Not feeling JSS.
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I did have some hope for Flying Colors as both Steve Morse and Neal Morse were involved but it was not as good as the sum of it's parts and I couldn't get past the forced vocal style of the singer who for some reason takes precedence over Neal in the singing department. I have tried to support Mike in the initial aftermath of his departure and I did buy the debut albums by Adrenaline Mob, Flying Colors and The Winery Dogs but noticeably didn't bother with album number 2 on any of those projects and don't get the impression I missed out despite Mike's hyperbole about how great they were.
Well, I disagree. To me, the first Flying Colors record was definitely greater than the sum of its parts. That album was chock full of songs that successfully mixed the prog leanings of the majority of the band members with a focused and disciplined approach to songwriting. That yielded songs that were catchy enough to please a non prog fan but that still retained enough progressive elements to be enjoyed by the prog crowd. Granted, I also quite like Casey McPherson as a singer and never thought he had a forced vocal style. The second one was a bit different and many thought that it could do with some editing/an outside producer. Still, the follow-up still had a lot of interesting stuff to offer, particularly (in my opinion, obviously) the best song FC ever recorded, "Peaceful Harbor". It's all a matter of taste, I suppose...
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Really disappointed in "The new kings of Prog"..... where is the prog, where are the good songs?
They are coming. Mike and Derek described the songs to us and they told us that Signs of Time was chosen because it was diverse and a good way to show all the aspects of the band and Coming Home was more of a straight rock single. But don't worry, you'll get prog. But I think that the album will be more like a classic hard rock album with elements of prog.
Some videos to show you how fun the interview was :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8SYsGqPQgY&feature=youtu.be&a=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaG6BbAP5BY&feature=youtu.be&a=
Thanks for sharing these.
Enjoyed that second clip :lol
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I edited this but a few seconds before, Mike wanted to use ideas developed in the Metropolis pt 2 demo just to see if the overzealous fans could get them.
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...I liked it :dunno:
And there's nothing wrong with that. We all know Music is subjective and strikes differently for each of us.
My issue is that the tweets from Derek claiming they were the new 'Kings of Prog' and pitting SOA against DT like they were going to take them out or something. Nothing I've heard from SOA leads me to believe they are the Kings of anything, much less in the same realm at DT when it comes to Prog. I'd be embarrassed if I were Derek after talking smack and then giving us this cut and paste single.
Overall, I agree. That song wasn't bad, but it wasn't particularly good either, it was just kinda there. There was nothing progressive about it, that's for sure (which doesn't matter to me but if the band pushes themselves as prog kings, then be prog). This track felt like AMOB with cool keyboard work on top, for me personally, that's not going to get a lot of repeat listens.
But, WHERE IS THE PROG?
This is what I am wondering considering the talk.
I feel like at this point my interest in this band is solely relying on the potential of the members and no longer about what I've heard so far.
I enjoy this type of music too, and it's not bad. But it's not that exciting either. I'd rock out to a concert of this music, but this music, which doesn't feel fresh, is not getting me excited for the album.
Totally agree.
Not feeling JSS.
I know a lot of people here love him, but I'm with you. I don't dislike his performance, I just don't find there to be anything memorable about this vocal, just like the vocal from the first track.
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On the plus side, this song is less overtly offensive than everything I've heard from Adrenaline Mob. On the negative side, I feel like Mike has been making this kind of butt rock for a while now and none of it has been particularly good or interesting.
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On second listen and I think this is a song any of them can come up with within five minutes jamming in the studio. "Okay, we have a song, lets move on to the next one".
Give it some work, put some more thought in making it special and distinctive (not necessarily proggier) and it would be much much better. As it is it sound like Adrenaline Mob with a better guitar player or Mr. Big with a lesser singer to me.
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There's this really obnoxious bassy/throaty gargle through the entire song. I can't figure out of if it's Derek or Billy, but it sounds they let this guy in the band come in and just make noises through the entire song.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/23/Gamorrean_Guard_with_Axe.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/499?cb=20060813142536)
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On second listen and I think this is a song any of them can come up with within five minutes jamming in the studio. "Okay, we have a song, lets move on to the next one".
Give it some work, put some more thought in making it special and distinctive (not necessarily proggier) and it would be much much better. As it is it sound like Adrenaline Mob with a better guitar player or Mr. Big with a lesser singer to me.
I agree. We discussed earlier in the thread how a lot of MP's projects post-DT seem like they are rushed, I think this song is a perfect example. Sounds like they had a keyboard riff, a basic guitar riff and threw this bad boy together. If they had more time to sit with it, maybe they could have expanded upon those ideas a bit more. Maybe not, total speculation on my part.
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That's exactly what I was thinking. All this "writing in the studio" is a nice approach and can sometimes lead to really good songs and records. But more often than not I find the songs/records that were given more time and that were worked out more before the actual recording to be better.
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Having heard the entire album - Well....
Don't expect much different songs than what you've already heard in te teasers and the two songs already out there :p
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Holy wow this is awful.
Drums are too loud and sound lifeless.
Billy's bass tone is horrible as always.
Derek is just kinda there. Aside from that bland riff at the beginning he doesn't do anything memorable in this song.
JSS sounds like a poor man's Russell Allen but with a third of the talent.
Lyrics are forgettable.
Guitar riff sounds generic. Bumblefoot still doesn't really impress me and he seems to be just another guitar wanker.
And overall the video itself wasn't interesting at all. It's the band sitting in a studio playing the song...ok?
2 songs into this project and I still don't hear anything remotely "Progressive". It just sounds like Adrenaline Mob with some keyboards, but just as awful.
I'm cancelling my pre-order. This project is not worth my time and money.
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Having heard the entire album - Well....
Don't expect much different songs than what you've already heard in te teasers and the two songs already out there :p
Oh gosh...
Derek is just kinda there. Aside from that bland riff at the beginning he doesn't do anything memorable in this song.
Good point, I hadn't noticed because after the intro like you said, nothing stuck with me.
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I've officially removed this from my Amazon cart. That song was as bland of a single as you could get. And as I've mention several times, Soto does nothing for me.
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I will probably play more of the 2nd disc (the instrumental version) than the one with vocals. Still not liking JSS.
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JSS is hardly the problem here. The problem is it sounds like this sound took, at max, 2 hours to write. There's more genuine songwriting on the new Next to None album.
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Having heard the entire album - Well....
Don't expect much different songs than what you've already heard in te teasers and the two songs already out there :p
And I was thinking the two singles would be the more generic tracks, that's not a good sign.
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Listened to the song three times this morning. On first listen, nothing really stood out. Maybe because I had preconceived notions and was expecting something less straightforward and more bombastic and "progressive" sounding. Second listen, just listened for what it is and really enjoyed it. It's not what I was expecting, but it's pretty good. I'm really liking Bumblefoot's playing. When forced into more traditional song structures, he can really play to the song. And given his work in GnR, I was pretty confident that would be the case, but it's good to see/hear it confirmed in the music. Looking forward to release day.
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That's exactly what I was thinking. All this "writing in the studio" is a nice approach and can sometimes lead to really good songs and records. But more often than not I find the songs/records that were given more time and that were worked out more before the actual recording to be better.
LTE spoiled Mike and JP I fear... they've realized they COULD write great songs on the fly, and now they think they can ALWAYS do that.
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JSS is hardly the problem here. The problem is it sounds like this sound took, at max, 2 hours to write. There's more genuine songwriting on the new Next to None album.
Yeah. I hate to keep ragging on this but it really is THAT bad. For a world renowned, hall of fame drummer to record that drum track is pretty embarrassing. MP may have some incredible drum work in other songs on the album but c'mon man, that was as lazy of drumming as I can remember. It was AMOB level lazy. I'm sure if asked he'd say it 'fit the song' or that's what the song 'called' for...but it was pretty lame. Fills that literally I could do...and the standard bass drumming beat that nearly put me to sleep. I just expect so much more from him because we all know what he can do....then to hear that effort...man it's BORING.
As far as the rest of the instruments I honestly can say that outside of Dereks opening sequence it's easily forgotten. Besides, it reminded me of Bon Jovi's 'It's My Life' riff
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That's exactly what I was thinking. All this "writing in the studio" is a nice approach and can sometimes lead to really good songs and records. But more often than not I find the songs/records that were given more time and that were worked out more before the actual recording to be better.
LTE spoiled Mike and JP I fear... they've realized they COULD write great songs on the fly, and now they think they can ALWAYS do that.
JP hasn't given me any reason to fret. He's still producing great music.
It was mentioned earlier and I think it rings true.....MP's greatest output in in the company of great song writers....JP and Neal Morse. To get full potential from him you need someone there to dig it out apparently.
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JSS is hardly the problem here. The problem is it sounds like this sound took, at max, 2 hours to write. There's more genuine songwriting on the new Next to None album.
Yeah. I hate to keep ragging on this but it really is THAT bad. For a world renowned, hall of fame drummer to record that drum track is pretty embarrassing. MP may have some incredible drum work in other songs on the album but c'mon man, that was as lazy of drumming as I can remember. It was AMOB level lazy. I'm sure if asked he'd say it 'fit the song' or that's what the song 'called' for...but it was pretty lame. Fills that literally I could do...and the standard bass drumming beat that nearly put me to sleep. I just expect so much more from him because we all know what he can do....then to hear that effort...man it's BORING.
Honestly, this makes it sound like you are just piling on and looking for things to try to find fault with.
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JSS is hardly the problem here. The problem is it sounds like this sound took, at max, 2 hours to write. There's more genuine songwriting on the new Next to None album.
Yeah. I hate to keep ragging on this but it really is THAT bad. For a world renowned, hall of fame drummer to record that drum track is pretty embarrassing. MP may have some incredible drum work in other songs on the album but c'mon man, that was as lazy of drumming as I can remember. It was AMOB level lazy. I'm sure if asked he'd say it 'fit the song' or that's what the song 'called' for...but it was pretty lame. Fills that literally I could do...and the standard bass drumming beat that nearly put me to sleep. I just expect so much more from him because we all know what he can do....then to hear that effort...man it's BORING.
Honestly, this makes it sound like you are just piling on and looking for things to try to find fault with.
Yeah, sorry about that. My biggest disappointment with it is you have this drummer in MP who is incredible....like a relief pitcher who throws 103 mph that no one can touch. Then for whatever reason the pitcher decides he's going to throw nothing but 89 mph sliders because he wants everyone to see he can throw a really good slider...then he gets lit up and loses the game.
I understand MP wants to showcase that he can play all sorts of music....we all know that....but when billed as 'the new Kings of Prog' at least try to throw some prog playing in there. That's all I'm saying. Seemed mailed in to me. I'll not comment anymore until this album comes out....maybe I'll be surprised.
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I too get the same impression that this song was thrown together in a really short amount of time. It consisted of essentially 2 riffs, and the individual performances were either very safe (e.g. MP's drumming, as mentioned), or somewhat haphazard (the guitar solo). JSS's singing is solid, but once again, it sounds like something a singer would sing as a guide vocal.
EDIT: The discussion reminded me of this:
https://youtu.be/EiYRZp_BZKM?t=14
;D
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Coming Home...well nothing special for me to be honest, I hope that the rest of the songs on the album have some more prog than this one. Simple, straight and not memorable song for me. Let's have hope that Coming Home is just a warm up song before the album. Anyway, I'm dissappointed.
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Very generic second song. I think it actually will hurt them rather than help them. If they released a song like Apocalypse from Kings X, people would be excited. This is as people said before Adrenaline Mob with keys. They may have some amazing songs yet on the album but so far this is pretty generic, not bad but not matching the hype.
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EDIT: The discussion reminded me of this:
https://youtu.be/EiYRZp_BZKM?t=14
;D
:lol
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I like the song.
But it's still not "ZOMG PROG METAL KINGS" good.
It's a very generic rock song.
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I really enjoyed Signs of the time. Coming home is alright but it's very standard like it was made just to be a single.
Really my only complaint about this project is while I think Bumblefoot is a very talented guitarist his tone is on the generic side.
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I like when Bumblefoot sticks the guitar pick on his forehead toward the end of the video, lol.
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With all the hype, I was expecting the next entry on the Mt. Rushmore of prog. I get that it's a single but your target demo is progressive metal not this dude rock. I guess the idea of Derek & Mike together again (I love FII) made me set my expectations unrealistically (and that's on me), but I feel like I was promised Starbucks and got lukewarm instant coffee so far.
Maybe I'll just hold off on any future samples and just enjoy the album for what it is. It's still a first day buy for me albeit with some reservations.
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As if I needed one, another reason for me not to check SoA album.
B.Lee
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I listened to both songs and I feel more or less the same way as anyone else, I was expecting this to be prog and it isn't. Not sure what they were trying to accomplish here, but it's certainily not what they've been trying to sell us
but I feel like I was promised Starbucks and got lukewarm instant coffee so far.
Well, if you were expecting starbucks then your expectations weren't very high to begin with :P
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I listened to both songs and I feel more or less the same way as anyone else, I was expecting this to be prog and it isn't. Not sure what they were trying to accomplish here, but it's certainily not what they've been trying to sell us
but I feel like I was promised Starbucks and got lukewarm instant coffee so far.
Well, if you were expecting starbucks then your expectations weren't very high to begin with :P
Yeah Vigilante Coffee is the only coffee good enough and prog enough for this analogy. :lol
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Heard it too. Good for what it is, Meh in the context of "Blowing DT off the prog metal scene". If Scotty says it's more or less all like this...
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Didn't hate it on first listen. Don't like the rhythm guitar sound, and Billy always makes it hard to get a good mix because of his tone. Riff is a bit shit but the lead playing is excellent. JSS does his job, but it's a bit average.
So DS is full of BS so far 😀
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I liked a lot the two songs released, but also I agree with the comparissons with AMOB on Coming Home (no problem to me, I like a lot the first 2 albums) and with the "complaints" that it seems that SoA marketing is proggier that it really is. I can imagine the 3 epics bringing the proggy side a lot more, but it seems more a Platypus (band), hard rock, kind of prog (which I absolutely love) than prog metal.
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I do not get calling Casey's vocals as "forced".
Not one bit.
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Having heard the entire album - Well....
Don't expect much different songs than what you've already heard in te teasers and the two songs already out there :p
Yikes.
Sounds like this will be a pass for me. I don't care how proggy it is - good music is good music - but jeez, this kind of generic hard rock is just so unappealing.
I thought the first song was okay, but this second one was about as bland as you can get. Just more proof that having all of that talent doesn't mean squat if you don't have the songs, and so far, they don't have 'em.
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**
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Having heard the entire album - Well....
Don't expect much different songs than what you've already heard in te teasers and the two songs already out there :p
Really? :( I was hoping this would at least be like Flying Colors, where some songs on each album do nothing for me, but then you have Infinite Fire, which I loved...
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Having heard the entire album - Well....
Don't expect much different songs than what you've already heard in te teasers and the two songs already out there :p
Yikes.
Sounds like this will be a pass for me. I don't care how proggy it is - good music is good music - but jeez, this kind of generic hard rock is just so unappealing.
I thought the first song was okay, but this second one was about as bland as you can get. Just more proof that having all of that talent doesn't mean squat if you don't have the songs, and so far, they don't have 'em.
This is very well said. Totally agree. And one thing more... IMO JSS performance in Coming Home is so much weaker than in Signs Of The Times... I even like his voice, but here just as You said, it's so generic...
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Decent song, but yeah not very interesting stylistically. Unlike most people, though, I'm not pre-judging the album at all as it sounds like this is the simplest song.
Bit of a strange choice for single, though - I get if they want to appeal to a wider audience, but this doesn't fit well with the prog metal pitch that they're also trying to make. Not that a single song can possibly define something as "prog" or "not prog", but I still think it gives the wrong impression.
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Having heard the entire album - Well....
Don't expect much different songs than what you've already heard in te teasers and the two songs already out there :p
I thought the first song was okay, but this second one was about as bland as you can get. Just more proof that having all of that talent doesn't mean squat if you don't have the songs, and so far, they don't have 'em.
Totally agree. At the end I'll wait for the full album hoping to be surprised with at least a good proggy song... Fingers crossed.
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I'm sure a lot of people will love the album. It's got plenty of the stuff that loads of fans of the heavier DT album LOVE. And it'll make it very apparent just how integral MP was to the song construction on the last few DT album he was on. This is what I imagine a DT album would sound like if everyone in the band was just into heavier music... The core audience for this album is probably diametrically opposed to the core audience for The Astonishing...
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Having heard the entire album - Well....
Don't expect much different songs than what you've already heard in te teasers and the two songs already out there :p
That's not very encouraging but also not surprising. Where did you hear it?
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If your definition of proggy song is "long intro, heavy riffs, chorus, refrain, chorus, into shred sections that trade solos for a few minutes and back to heavy riffs, return to chorus to end the song", sure, there are plenty of that here.
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I liked Sings of the Time much more than this one. Like almost every post here says, we were told this was going to be a prog metal supergroup, and we got just some generic hard rock instead. If that's the kind of music they wanted to make, that's totally cool, but you just can't proclaim you're "the kings of prog metal" and then release songs that aren't prog or even too metal.
My opinion on the performances:
- Drums: meh
- Guitar: meh
- Keys: liked the intro, then meh
- Vocals: not for me
- Bass: what Sheehan does on every record he's in, nonsense playing and awful tone
Not liking this, so far. Expected much more from MP and DS, to be honest. Hope they (specially Mike) don't start another social media rant if the album isn't received as well as they expect it to be.
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This is what I imagine a DT album would sound like if everyone in the band was just into heavier music... The core audience for this album is probably diametrically opposed to the core audience for The Astonishing...
Wow, really? I'm not getting that from the two songs I've heard so far. They aren't really all that heavy at all to me. And that's fine--they don't necessarily need to be. I'm just saying that, based on what I've heard so far, your description is surprising.
I also don't get the AMob comparisons some are making. To me, this sounds very little like AMob. And to me, that's a very good thing. Aside from the VERY cool Mob Rules cover, that band did absolutely nothing for me.
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I'm sure a lot of people will love the album. It's got plenty of the stuff that loads of fans of the heavier DT album LOVE. And it'll make it very apparent just how integral MP was to the song construction on the last few DT album he was on. This is what I imagine a DT album would sound like if everyone in the band was just into heavier music... The core audience for this album is probably diametrically opposed to the core audience for The Astonishing...
If your definition of proggy song is "long intro, heavy riffs, chorus, refrain, chorus, into shred sections that trade solos for a few minutes and back to heavy riffs, return to chorus to end the song", sure, there are plenty of that here.
Hmm, not sure what to think. I prefer the 3 albums since Mike left over SC and probably Black Clouds, and I love the Astonishing. But I do like all of DT's albums including both SC and Black Clouds, and Train of Thought as well, which arguably could be described in your quote above. What bothered me most about those later MP-DT albums was Mike's singing, but I was fine with most of the songs. I guess I'll have to wait for one of the longer songs and see.
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Generic hard rock song. But it's not like the other song was much more original.
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Aside from the VERY cool Mob Rules cover, that band did absolutely nothing for me.
In addition to that cover, I just had to say that I also LOVE the A-Mob song, "All on the Line": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAkmZs3SnMU
As for the new Sons of Apollo song, it was a solid tune for me. I'm particularly enjoying seeing how much fun the band seems to be having. :)
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I finished listening (thrice) all the album a couple minutes ago, and if you guys are looking something really different in the rest of the album...well...
I am not saying that the rest of the album it's bad, in fact I liked CH for what it is, I am just saying that it is nothing groundbreaking, at least to me there's nothing in the album that stands to the #WeAreTheKingsOfProgMetal #TheThroneHasBeenReclaimed or some of the other similars #s posted on social media.
Take it from someone who has MP tattooed on his calf, just look at the tshirt I am wearing on my avatar. I do love MP but the album is far overhyped.
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I'm sure a lot of people will love the album. It's got plenty of the stuff that loads of fans of the heavier DT album LOVE. And it'll make it very apparent just how integral MP was to the song construction on the last few DT album he was on. This is what I imagine a DT album would sound like if everyone in the band was just into heavier music... The core audience for this album is probably diametrically opposed to the core audience for The Astonishing...
Hmmm, I don't know if that will be accurate. I pretty much hated The Astonishing (although a few tracks were awesome) and so far I have not been impressed with the two SoA tracks. The latest was just "there" as someone earlier said. First track released was a tad better. DT12 wasn't my favorite DT album but I'll take that any day over The Astonishing or the 2 SoA tracks I've heard.
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MP is becoming the Ralph Kramden of starting musical bands.
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MP is becoming the Ralph Kramden of starting musical bands.
:lol :lol :lol
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Coming Home video, just posted by MP on Facebook:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1N8kVYfkE
Double bass drum
Double neck bass guitar
Double neck guitar
Double keyboard stacks
Double disappointed.
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Needed double the songwriting.
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"And then there was Apollo Two Times, who got that nickname because he did everything twice, like double the necks, double the necks."
Sorry... it's on right now :)
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Still sounds like The Winery Dogs with Keys.
Velvet Revolver...thats the band that this sounds like to me.
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If your definition of proggy song is "long intro, heavy riffs, chorus, refrain, chorus, into shred sections that trade solos for a few minutes and back to heavy riffs, return to chorus to end the song", sure, there are plenty of that here.
Not to start the "what is prog?" debate, but while that might be the modern day stereotypical definition of proggy, it sure ain't progressive.
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I think the problem is that this song seems a bit under their collective talents.
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If you mute the video it looks like a bunch of middle aged guys who playing instruments causes them to be in great pain. I'll never understand how over the top grimace faces and theatrics makes for a good showman. Add in spirit fingers and this is definitely not for me. At least we know what they meant by "swagger."
Musically it sounds about how I expected. When they posted those videos talking about how talented everyone is I was worried they were going to consider just being in a band together as their great accomplishment. I'm still not unconvinced. I don't really hear anything original or like there's any great writing chemistry going on.
I wish them well, but hard pass from me.
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Musically it sounds about how I expected. When they posted those videos talking about how talented everyone is I was worried they were going to consider just being in a band together as their great accomplishment.
This touches on a point I've been trying to articulate by PM with someone, about how redundant a so-called 'super group' is if there isn't a gifted song-writer among them. You could throw the likes of Ringo Starr, John McVie and Elvis into a studio (dammit can someone give me an example of a legendary guitarist who doesn't write music, because I've been struggling to complete my hypothetical super group of non-composers), it looks like an immense 'super group' on paper, but none of them write tunes, and so what is the musical worth? Technical pyrotechnics? Who has cared about that since the late 80s? I'm waiting for the full album to come out before making my conclusion about the music of this band (I was indifferent to the first song, and I liked the second a lot), but I'm generally not impressed by 'super group' labels (especially as it applies these days, i.e. d-list rockers who hardly anyone outside the genre has heard of). Amazing players are ten a penny, YouTube is full of technical freaks of nature, but truly great song-writers are a very rare breed, and without one, you're just a bunch of very talented guys going through the motions. Will Sons of Apollo have a Neal Morse or a John Petrucci among them? We'll see.
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So basically what Derek has been telling us in his tweets is that Sons of Apollo is going to lack anything that would make it interesting.
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So basically what Derek has been telling us in his tweets is that Sons of Apollo is going to lack anything that would make it interesting.
Yup. Honestly it could use some breathy vocals.
Not joking.
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Dave - I agree with that, and it almost seems like the music is secondary. Get supposedly great musicians together, let them record whatever the hell comes out for the whole 2 weeks they write, and talk about your swagger. Rinse and repeat with other musicians if it doesn't become huge. That is a recipe to get really bland, well, music like this.
I look forward to hearing how this was always supposed to br temporary and the next project that is thrown together without a single consideration of forming a songwriting identity.
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I'm really liking Bumblefoot's playing. When forced into more traditional song structures, he can really play to the song. And given his work in GnR, I was pretty confident that would be the case, but it's good to see/hear it confirmed in the music. Looking forward to release day.
I agree with this. I feel BUmblefoot is a bit like Guthrie Govan and his work with Steve Wilson. With SW Guthrie had to work within the limitations that were given to him and he came up with some of the best guitar playing I've ever heard.
I'm interested to see what bumblefoot has up his sleeve.
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I think it's some groovy shit - loving the backup vocals on this song.
Really, sometimes you just need to let go of everything that's in the last 20 pages of this thread and jam. :tup There's nothing wrong with a 4 minute song that lacks 15 minutes of useless widdly widdly.
Also:
https://bravewords.com/news/sons-of-apollo-featuring-past-present-members-of-dream-theater-guns-n-roses-journey-mr-big-debut-coming-home-music-video
"I assume most people's expectations of the band from its lineup is for SOA to be a self-indulgent 'wank-fest' (and granted, there are three 10-minute prog epics on the album!), but ‘Coming Home’ is an example that we are just as much a rock band cut from the cloth of classic bands like Van Halen as well."
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Maybe the problem here is that MP associates being progressive with 10 minute wank-fests.
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I suppose there could be individuals who can wholly separate things, but they are far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired.
This is where ariich and I have a problem with. You recognize that there may be some people that can separate the behaviour of a person from the music he makes but they are "probably severely cognitively impaired"
Really? Just because someone has a different opinion or experience on that matter he has probably some kind of brain damage? You have either constructed your post in a way that it can be easily misunderstood or you are just outright insulting.
Neither of you are understanding what I'm saying. I don't feel I've been unclear about it, either. Had I been more concise, I could have been even more easily misinterpreted. Please get off the defensive for a moment and listen.
A person is often the world's leading expert on their own self in many ways, but not all ways. If a person posting in this thread claims they can separate entirely their knowledge of a musician from the way they experience said musician's output, I believe strongly that they are mistaken. They're not lying--they're just wrong. When challenged, I speculated that while there may be someone on the planet who is capable of doing that, they're likely severely cognitively impaired. That observation is not a passive aggressive dig at anyone on this site who claims to be able to separate these things, because the sort of individual I'm talking about would not be reading this forum. Again, people here who claim to be able to do this are not cognitively impaired or dishonest--they just don't understand certain aspects of the subjective human experience. Reading me say this for the eleventh time is probably going to piss some of them off, but I'm in the bizarre position of having to defend myself for stating what seems obvious.
None of what I'm saying is the least bit controversial and no one should be taking it personally. It's just how stuff works. If it's still unclear, then I cannot help you and I won't defend myself further.
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Do what?
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Anyway....
Listened to the song. Already forgot the whole thing.
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Anyway....
Listened to the song. Already forgot the whole thing.
You are not alone... this might be the biggest disapointment of the year. "New kings of prog metal", "Reclaiming the throne".... over hype / hype in the wrong direction.....
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Yea, I'll judge this album on its own merit, but the people let down by the style have that right.
It'd be like saying Logan was a laugh out loud comedy movie and then getting upset when people (who really wanted a comedy) complain that it's not a comedy.
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So far, the best reaction to the song has been from my three year old daughter: "wooooow, this man has two guitars on at the same time? And this other man too???"
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I suppose there could be individuals who can wholly separate things, but they are far from neurotypical and are probably severely cognitively impaired.
This is where ariich and I have a problem with. You recognize that there may be some people that can separate the behaviour of a person from the music he makes but they are "probably severely cognitively impaired"
Really? Just because someone has a different opinion or experience on that matter he has probably some kind of brain damage? You have either constructed your post in a way that it can be easily misunderstood or you are just outright insulting.
Neither of you are understanding what I'm saying. I don't feel I've been unclear about it, either. Had I been more concise, I could have been even more easily misinterpreted. Please get off the defensive for a moment and listen.
A person is often the world's leading expert on their own self in many ways, but not all ways. If a person posting in this thread claims they can separate entirely their knowledge of a musician from the way they experience said musician's output, I believe strongly that they are mistaken. They're not lying--they're just wrong. When challenged, I speculated that while there may be someone on the planet who is capable of doing that, they're likely severely cognitively impaired. That observation is not a passive aggressive dig at anyone on this site who claims to be able to separate these things, because the sort of individual I'm talking about would not be reading this forum. Again, people here who claim to be able to do this are not cognitively impaired or dishonest--they just don't understand certain aspects of the subjective human experience. Reading me say this for the eleventh time is probably going to piss some of them off, but I'm in the bizarre position of having to defend myself for stating what seems obvious.
None of what I'm saying is the least bit controversial and no one should be taking it personally. It's just how stuff works. If it's still unclear, then I cannot help you and I won't defend myself further.
I think putting this theory to the test, the most extreme example I can think of is the following: if you were Jewish, could you enjoy music made by Neo-Nazis? Probably not.
Anyway, I liked the song, especially the part between 2:30-2:45, it really pumped me up. A bit disappointed though that Mike played the exact same generic drum fill at the end of that part which he played at the beginning of the song (and at the beginning of Shoulda Coulda Woulda, and so on). Felt like a copy-paste. I often get this feeling with Mike's recent works. I wish they would sit down and spend months crafting the songs and make something especially special. It's only their job, after all.
"And then there was Apollo Two Times, who got that nickname because he did everything twice, like double the necks, double the necks."
Sorry... it's on right now :)
Hopefully the album will be a success, and SoA won't have to get their walking papers, walking papers.
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That's plain baloney WheyWaffles. I can certainly say that I do not like how band members act online while still liking their music.
Mike Tyson was a terrible man but I loved watching his boxing matches and rooted for him to destroy others.
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I'm not saying it is always easy and maybe when you put it to the extreme it doesn't work anymore. But I still maintain that it is possible to listen to Sons Of Apollo for example and not let Derek's tweets have an effect of your enjoyment. A lot of people have said that they could do just that. So one could just accept that people are different and argue with brain disfunctionality. That's just outright silly.
And for the extreme examples, Richard Wagner was nit a nazi but a holeheartedly antisemit and yet there are jews and israelis that enjoy his music. All with brain damage?
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Maybe the reception for SoA will be better outside this forum... from MP Facebook:
MARK THIS DAY IN HISTORY!! Nothing but Positive remarks in the comments section of an MP-related post of Blabbermouth!! It's a miracle...hahaha! Wow…
I do think SOA will deliver something for everyone…it’s got the chops of DT or PSMS mixed with the hooks and melodic sensibilities of TWD….I can't wait for everyone to hear the whole album \m/
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sons-of-apollo-feat-portnoy-sheehan-bumblefoot-soto-sherinian-coming-home-video/
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I'm not saying it is always easy and maybe when you put it to the extreme it doesn't work anymore. But I still maintain that it is possible to listen to Sons Of Apollo for example and not let Derek's tweets have an effect of your enjoyment. A lot of people have said that they could do just that. So one could just accept that people are different and argue with brain disfunctionality. That's just outright silly.
And for the extreme examples, Richard Wagner was nit a nazi but a holeheartedly antisemit and yet there are jews and israelis that enjoy his music. All with brain damage?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nS66IvbvcI
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Maybe the reception for SoA will be better outside this forum... from MP Facebook:
MARK THIS DAY IN HISTORY!! Nothing but Positive remarks in the comments section of an MP-related post of Blabbermouth!! It's a miracle...hahaha! Wow…
I do think SOA will deliver something for everyone…it’s got the chops of DT or PSMS mixed with the hooks and melodic sensibilities of TWD….I can't wait for everyone to hear the whole album \m/
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sons-of-apollo-feat-portnoy-sheehan-bumblefoot-soto-sherinian-coming-home-video/
I have yet to hear a great hook in either of the two songs released thus far. I don't think the singer's voice is helping in that regard. It's possible what should have been the hooks might have been more "hooky" in the vocal chords of a singer more suited for this style of music.
Even funnier, if you stroll over to Portnoy's forum, even reaction there to this new song is mixed at best, but hey, if he wants to pound his chest over Blabbermouth, more power to him. :lol :lol
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That's plain baloney WheyWaffles. I can certainly say that I do not like how band members act online while still liking their music.
Mike Tyson was a terrible man but I loved watching his boxing matches and rooted for him to destroy others.
Sounds like you are cognitively impaired. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
:biggrin: :biggrin:
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That's plain baloney WheyWaffles. I can certainly say that I do not like how band members act online while still liking their music.
Mike Tyson was a terrible man but I loved watching his boxing matches and rooted for him to destroy others.
Sounds like you are cognitively impaired. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
:biggrin: :biggrin:
:lol You remember those days Kev. Betting with your buds how fast would Tyson kill someone. :lol
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That's plain baloney WheyWaffles. I can certainly say that I do not like how band members act online while still liking their music.
Mike Tyson was a terrible man but I loved watching his boxing matches and rooted for him to destroy others.
Can't believe I'm wading into this but to be fair to 'Wheywaffles', he's not saying otherwise. His claim is that it isn't possible to totally ignore your knowledge of a musician and not have it to some extent influence your experience of their music. That doesn't mean you can't still like what they do (I still occasionally spin and enjoy Lostprophets albums, even though the singer is doing 35 years in prison for raping a baby), but his claim is that on some level it will influence your experience. I don't know (or care) if he's right or wrong, but I think that's what he's saying.
Back to SoA, I liked Coming Home on first listening, and I'm liking it more on repeated ones. Prefer this one to the first song by far.
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That's plain baloney WheyWaffles. I can certainly say that I do not like how band members act online while still liking their music.
Mike Tyson was a terrible man but I loved watching his boxing matches and rooted for him to destroy others.
Sounds like you are cognitively impaired. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
:biggrin: :biggrin:
:lol You remember those days Kev. Betting with your buds how fast would Tyson kill someone. :lol
Story time!
It was either 1987 or 1988, but I was at my next door neighbor's house hanging out with my childhood friend Tony, and they had whatever channel at the time showed boxing fights (Showtime?), so I was like, hey, let's watch the Tyson fight. He didn't seemed interested, but I was like, it'll be over in like 5 minutes. And, lo and behold, Tyson literally knocked the guy out in the first two minutes of Round 1. :lol :lol
Edit: I looked it up and I think it was the fight against Michael Spinks in June 1988.
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That's plain baloney WheyWaffles. I can certainly say that I do not like how band members act online while still liking their music.
Mike Tyson was a terrible man but I loved watching his boxing matches and rooted for him to destroy others.
Can't believe I'm wading into this but to be fair to 'Wheywaffles', he's not saying otherwise. His claim is that it isn't possible to totally ignore your knowledge of a musician and not have it to some extent influence your experience of their music. That doesn't mean you can't still like what they do (I still occasionally spin and enjoy Lostprophets albums, even though the singer is doing 35 years in prison for raping a baby), but his claim is that on some level it will influence your experience. I don't know (or care) if he's right or wrong, but I think that's what he's saying.
Back to SoA, I liked Coming Home on first listening, and I'm liking it more on repeated ones. Prefer this one to the first song by far.
I haven't liked how Mike has handled himself since the breakup online and in interviews at all. That has no way influenced my listening to his music on bit.
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I haven't liked how Mike has handled himself since the breakup online and in interviews at all. That has no way influenced my listening to his music on bit.
Same here. dude can flat out play the drums.....watching him play 'Similitude of a Dream' with the Neal Morse band in person from about 40 foot away might be the highlight of my concert going career thus far. And I will go see the NMB again and again and continue to support his music to an extent (not feeling SOA and didn't buy AMOB) But his behavior post split has influenced me to view him in a complete 180 of how I used to.
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MP a few months ago: nobody pay attention to what Blabbermouth says, they're all trolls over there
MP now: Blabbermouth likes this song, so it's your loss if you don't like it
:rollin
Christ.
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MP a few months ago: nobody pay attention to what Blabbermouth says, they're all trolls over there
MP now: Blabbermouth likes this song, so it's your loss if you don't like it
:rollin
Christ.
How are you getting there? That's not what he meant at all. He's just having a laugh at the fact that for once they aren't bashing him. He's not saying people should lile his song because bbm does....
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My point was, he's spent x years dismissing Blabbermouth as illegitimate or unfair, but will use them when they praise him. Kinda eyeroll worthy if I'm being honest (the whole thing, including this) but I just woke up so it's early morning giggles to me, not gonna make a mountain out of a molehill.
EDIT: aha, apparently [ x ] is the code for bullet points. noted :)
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I'm trying to figure out the purpose of Billy's double neck. Is it just for show in the video? Does he touch the other side of the bass at all? :lol
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IMO, the same can be said for Bumblefoot's double neck guitar. The use of a fretless guitar in that song makes zero sense to me.
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IMO, the same can be said for Bumblefoot's double neck guitar. The use of a fretless guitar in that song makes zero sense to me.
Well if he played the entire song on a fretted guitar it wouldn't sound much different but there are little nuances that only a fretless can achieve. mainly the solo. Still, I really don't think it would change much so in a way it is kind of pointless.
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I think on the first song he actually used the fretless for a few riffs that wouldn't sound at all the same on a fretted on. But I didn't hear much of it here.
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Dave Manchester excellent point about needing actually song writers. That's why MP has so much success with Neal Morse. MP is an amazing player but Neal can probably insert about a dozen or more drummers into his band.
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That's plain baloney WheyWaffles. I can certainly say that I do not like how band members act online while still liking their music.
Mike Tyson was a terrible man but I loved watching his boxing matches and rooted for him to destroy others.
Can't believe I'm wading into this but to be fair to 'Wheywaffles', he's not saying otherwise. His claim is that it isn't possible to totally ignore your knowledge of a musician and not have it to some extent influence your experience of their music. That doesn't mean you can't still like what they do (I still occasionally spin and enjoy Lostprophets albums, even though the singer is doing 35 years in prison for raping a baby), but his claim is that on some level it will influence your experience. I don't know (or care) if he's right or wrong, but I think that's what he's saying.
Thank you. I was mistaken as well--I thought writing a multi-part essay on this would make it impossible to miss the nuance in what I was saying, but it's easier for people to condense that into a caricature I guess--that because they still like music despite not liking the musician, I must be wrong. Strong evidence, bros.
But I agree, back on topic: Might Portnoy be reinventing himself as a Butt Rock God? Who could have foreseen this pre-Adrenaline Mob? Next video will feature hot girls in fast cars. Take that, Dream Theater.
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I'm trying to figure out the purpose of Billy's double neck. Is it just for show in the video? Does he touch the other side of the bass at all? :lol
Nope :biggrin: but the other neck is 5 string as I remember well, so probably He uses it for different tuning, anyway in this video it's only for show ;)
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Maybe the problem here is that MP associates being progressive with 10 minute wank-fests.
I think the problem might be Mike goes into the studio thinking, "we only have 2 weeks to do all this, but that's fine, because we're all crazy geniuses in our own right and, even distracted, it'll come out great."
He doesn't understand that 5 guys in a room winging an album still leads to something that sounds half-assed, even if the guys are musical geniuses. This overconfidence has plagued MP projects since Systematic Chaos, so no surprise that the more things change, the more they stay the same.
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Maybe the problem here is that MP associates being progressive with 10 minute wank-fests.
I think the problem might be Mike goes into the studio thinking, "we only have 2 weeks to do all this, but that's fine, because we're all crazy geniuses in our own right and, even distracted, it'll come out great."
He doesn't understand that 5 guys in a room winging an album still leads to something that sounds half-assed, even if the guys are musical geniuses. This overconfidence has plagued MP projects since Systematic Chaos, so no surprise that the more things change, the more they stay the same.
That's what I meant before when I said that LTE in a sense kinda spoiled MP and to a lesser extent JP. Just because you CAN do a (great) album in 2 weeks, it doesn't mean you should ALWAYS do an album in 2 weeks, or that it will always come out the best possible way it could have been.
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I'm trying to figure out the purpose of Billy's double neck. Is it just for show in the video? Does he touch the other side of the bass at all? :lol
Nope :biggrin: but the other neck is 5 string as I remember well, so probably He uses it for different tuning, anyway in this video it's only for show ;)
Nope, just another 4 string. But yeah, I would assume the other neck is in a different tuning
(https://i.imgur.com/4Y9C1tW.png)
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OK, my mistake ;) So, different tuning for sure. ;)
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It just bugs me that he doesn't actually make use of it in the video :lol
Like... Thall swaps back and forth from the fretless... which makes sense, as that's his thing... But there's no reason for Billy to be playing the double neck in the video.
WHERE'S THE REALISM?
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Hey, you know what? From a keyboardist's point of view, the video is a scam too. Derek uses a moog voyager for his intro lead in the video but in the studio he used either a Nord Lead or a Kronos, IMO there's no way he would have recreated his monster lead on a moog voyager. So like the double neck bass, it's just for the show and the video clip, that's all. Exactly like when Tuomas from Nightwish plays an old detuned piano in a clip but in reality he plays a strings patch from a workstation.
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Hey, you know what? From a keyboardist's point of view, the video is a scam too. Derek uses a moog voyager for his intro lead in the video but in the studio he used either a Nord Lead or a Kronos, IMO there's no way he would have recreated his monster lead on a moog voyager. So like the double neck bass, it's just for the show and the video clip, that's all. Exactly like when Tuomas from Nightwish plays an old detuned piano in a clip but in reality he plays a strings patch from a workstation.
That's it. This band has been completely ruined for me now. What's next? Mike is playing different symbols than in the recording? His snare is tuned differently?
I think I am done. The Sons Of Apollo are dead to me.
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Derek needs a double-neck keytar.
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Hey, you know what? From a keyboardist's point of view, the video is a scam too. Derek uses a moog voyager for his intro lead in the video but in the studio he used either a Nord Lead or a Kronos, IMO there's no way he would have recreated his monster lead on a moog voyager. So like the double neck bass, it's just for the show and the video clip, that's all. Exactly like when Tuomas from Nightwish plays an old detuned piano in a clip but in reality he plays a strings patch from a workstation.
That's it. This band has been completely ruined for me now. What's next? Mike is playing different symbols than in the recording? His snare is tuned differently?
I think I am done. The Sons Of Apollo are dead to me.
:lol. Jay, you win the internet today.
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I listened to the two songs.
What a disappoonting way to waste Jeff Scott Soto's voice.
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I actually really like both songs but agree that it is not like DT-esque prog metal at all thus far, which the samples and marketing led us believe. I also agree it does sound like Amob, but more like the band I wished Amob was (despite me enjoying some of their material, especially the debut). What I have heard of SoA has more groove and much better instrumental aspects.
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Is it just me or is the guitar barely audible when he's not playing a lead of some kind? I can seem him playing heavy riffs, but all I hear is bass.
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Is it just me or is the guitar barely audible when he's not playing a lead of some kind? I can seem him playing heavy riffs, but all I hear is bass.
No, it's not just you. Can't hear the guitars either except when the lead instruments.
As for SoA being presented as the alternative to DT : no way! They're not just in the same league if we judge from the 2 songs released. When you build up such a hype, you have to live up to that hype or else, you're bound to be really disappointing. At best, it is a hard-rock band, which is not bad per se, but nothing I have heard so far can be deemed as prog metal.
B.Lee
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I fail to see why this band is still a target of such controversy here, but whatever.
I don't see the AMob or Winery Dogs comparisons either..
To me they sound like so many other "prog metal light" bands out there. Circus Maximus, Pagans Mind, Anubis Gate, later era Sym X or even DT to some extent. I don't know what people were expecting out of this, but i went in without expectations and i quite enjoyed the two songs released so far..
But yeah, i think this is going to be nothing revolutionary but enjoyable still..
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I fail to see why this band is still a target of such controversy here, but whatever.
I don't see the AMob or Winery Dogs comparisons either..
To me they sound like so many other "prog metal light" bands out there. Circus Maximus, Pagans Mind, Anubis Gate, later era Sym X or even DT to some extent. I don't know what people were expecting out of this, but i went in without expectations and i quite enjoyed the two songs released so far..
But yeah, i think this is going to be nothing revolutionary but enjoyable still..
That's it!!!
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I thought that new song was pretty cool. I wish Portnoy would shut up though, leave it to JSS mate. His backups are so subpar in this.
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Is it just me or is the guitar barely audible when he's not playing a lead of some kind? I can seem him playing heavy riffs, but all I hear is bass.
So, Stumblebum is their John Myung! "We can see him playing something, but we just can't hear it!" :lol :lol
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I fail to see why this band is still a target of such controversy here, but whatever.
I don't see the AMob or Winery Dogs comparisons either..
To me they sound like so many other "prog metal light" bands out there. Circus Maximus, Pagans Mind, Anubis Gate, later era Sym X or even DT to some extent. I don't know what people were expecting out of this, but i went in without expectations and i quite enjoyed the two songs released so far..
But yeah, i think this is going to be nothing revolutionary but enjoyable still..
I think that's giving far too much credit to SoA. I don't hear a lick of CM, PM, AG, or even latter day Symphony X.
I've noticed Derek has been telling people he'd like to hear their original music after they're done 'flipping burgers.' Has he always been a giant asshole?
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I've noticed Derek has been telling people he'd like to hear their original music after they're done 'flipping burgers.' Has he always been a giant asshole?
Where did he say that? I'm looking at his Twitter and Facebook and I don't see that anywhere. Based on his recent behavior I wouldn't really be surprised though.
To me this whole project screams "Mid-Life Crisis".
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Can someone please knock some sense into Portnoy and tell him to focus mainly on Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors?
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How how does he know that my burger cooking skills is not better than his song? :lol
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:lol
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How how does he know that my burger cooking skills is not better than his song? :lol
:lol :lol :lol
If your burger is bland and forgettable, it is then at least Coming Home's equal.
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Had a brief convo last night about this with my older brother (who loves DT, TA, NMB, Flying Colors), which went like this:
Brother: You heard that new song by the new band Portnoy and Sherinian are in?
Me: Yeah. It's not that good.
Brother: That singer is awful.
Me: He's okay, but the music is just bland.
Brother: I'm out already.
:lol :lol :lol
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Had a brief convo last night about this with my older brother (who loves DT, TA, NMB, Flying Colors), which went like this:
Brother: You heard that new song by the new band Portnoy and Sherinian are in?
Me: Yeah. It's not that good.
Brother: That singer is awful.
Me: He's okay, but the music is just bland.
Brother: I'm out already.
:lol :lol :lol
It does sound like JSS is being restrained. Even at his age he is still capable of so much more than he is showing on these two songs.
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BTW, I'm glad JSS isn't singing the typical operatic metal singer style.
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Of course JSS has been restrained. He used to sing with Journey, ffs. JSS was put at that register by one of the producers of the album, who also has been very vocal about "anus puckering vocals" on twitter. Not naming names.
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Heck, JSS' vocals in these two singles do not even match JSS' vocals in his own recently-released single two weeks ago.
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Of course JSS has been restrained. He used to sing with Journey, ffs. JSS was put at that register by one of the producers of the album, who also has been very vocal about "anus puckering vocals" on twitter. Not naming names.
Had Soto gotten his way he may have had more diversity in his singing. In one of the introduction videos, Derek and he joke about almost coming to blows. While they were laughing in that one, in another interview, I can't remember which one, somebody admitted it got pretty heated when it came to recording vocals
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Can someone please knock some sense into Portnoy and tell him to focus mainly on Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors?
Can’t find where Derek posted that! If you guys could direct me that would be awesome
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It does sound like JSS is being restrained. Even at his age he is still capable of so much more than he is showing on these two songs.
Jeff: How was that, Mike?
MP: Needs more balls, needs to be more badass.
Jeff: Like this?...
MP: Shh, this is my gratuitous backing vocal spot no one wants to hear.
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It sounds alright to me. Slightly better than Amob stuff, but I'm waiting to be wow'd by some actual prog stuff. Like I really hope I'm not being misled here, I'm not expecting dream theater but DS solo work is way more proggy than any of this stuff. Opus Maximus sounds intriguing. Everyone's vocals sound OK to me, not as good as Neal Morse backing stuff though.
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
That argument is so dumb. You can be the talentless person in the world, but that doesn't mean you can't recognise when something is bad. Those kids in that infamous Final Countdown video are still more talented at their instruments than I am, but they still suck.
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
That argument is so dumb. You can be the talentless person in the world, but that doesn't mean you can't recognise when something is bad. Those kids in that infamous Final Countdown video are still more talented at their instruments than I am, but they still suck.
Completely agree with you, Zook.
B.Lee
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
That argument is so dumb. You can be the talentless person in the world, but that doesn't mean you can't recognise when something is bad. Those kids in that infamous Final Countdown video are still more talented at their instruments than I am, but they still suck.
Completely agree with you, Zook.
B.Lee
On that same token, someone that's good at flipping burgers may make me spend more of my money on them and the food they make than on some half assed prog rock band.
Now I'm hungry.
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
That argument is so dumb. You can be the talentless person in the world, but that doesn't mean you can't recognise when something is bad. Those kids in that infamous Final Countdown video are still more talented at their instruments than I am, but they still suck.
Completely agree with you, Zook.
B.Lee
On that same token, someone that's good at flipping burgers may make me spend more of my money on them and the food they make than on some half assed prog rock band.
Now I'm hungry.
Seems like Derek could take a hint from Steve Morse... ;D
«If you have a day job and you’re flipping burgers four hours a day, flip those burgers right onto the middle of the bun. Make everything count. If you’re sweeping the floor, don’t say it’s okay that you left that piece of dirt behind. Say: ‘If I sweep up every bit of this dirt to the best of my ability, that’s going to affect the way I play music. It’s going to make everything I do strive for perfection.’
That’s how you can tell if somebody’s going to make it or not – it’s not by whether or not they know somebody’s phone number on Star Search. Those are the kind of people that, when the opportunities come – and every couple of years or so, everyone will get these, what other people would say are once-in-a-lifetime opportunities, but they will keep coming… the people that are ready, and luck allows them to, and fate allows them to, will find that they will get connected.» (Taken from: https://www.guitarmessenger.com/interviews/steve-morse-interview/)
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DS ist walking on very thin ice with stuff like that. Let's be honest, most of his career has been in the shadow of big names. To stick with the analogy, he was himself flipping musical burgers for the most part.
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This "if you can't do better, don't criticize" argument is as low-level thinking as it gets. It's on par with "professional athletes don't deserve a high salary" and "if humans evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys."
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This "if you can't do better, don't criticize" argument is as low-level thinking as it gets. It's on par with "professional athletes don't deserve a high salary" and "if humans evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys."
This.
I am not usually one to let the press clippings influence my thoughts on what I am listening to but seeing that comment has totally just turned me off for good. Good job DS, I own your solo CD's, Planet-X and have talked at length on my podcast about how you are probably my favorite keyboard player of all time; but after this I am so over you. As a musician myself that comment totally crosses the line. Consider me another lost album sale.
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I agree with Derek actually. But since I feel like I have written better songs, I'm cool criticizing it. However, unless he can come up with a better criticism against his music than mine, he has no right to criticize my criticism.
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I agree with Derek actually. But since I feel like I have written better songs, I'm cool criticizing it. However, unless he can come up with a better criticism against his music than mine, he has no right to criticize my criticism.
I just turned myself inside out.
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DS ist walking on very thin ice with stuff like that. Let's be honest, most of his career has been in the shadow of big names. To stick with the analogy, he was himself flipping musical burgers for the most part.
Was?
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Well, he is one of the kings of prog now.
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Well, I didn't vote for him.
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You don't vote for kings. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords appoint them.
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You don't vote for kings. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords appoint them.
So prog.
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Is Kamelot prog? If so, we've come full circle.
Then again, it's just a model.
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I dub thee Sir. Rumborka.
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This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue over who's the king of prog! :coolio
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Well, he is one of the kings of prog now.
His kingdom:
(https://www.efestivals.co.uk/photos/alchemy/2009/AroundTheSite-AlchemyFestival2009-GS-1.jpg)
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:lol
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I’ve been banned from that kingdom
our account has been banned until Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:53 PM.
Reason: Rule Violation
If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.
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I’ve been banned from that kingdom
our account has been banned until Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:53 PM.
Reason: Rule Violation
If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.
What's what from? MP.com?
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I’ve been banned from that kingdom
our account has been banned until Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:53 PM.
Reason: Rule Violation
If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.
This is what happens when you whip out the big guns.
No, it doesn’t disallows your opinion but you or anyone should disallows ours either chump.
I have to admit, I was offended. The fact that you said this to an MP apologist made it all the more emotionally devastating.
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I’ve been banned from that kingdom
our account has been banned until Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:53 PM.
Reason: Rule Violation
If you believe this is a mistake, you can contact forum admin for more information.
What's what from? MP.com?
Yes, they banned me at the MP forum
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But, but... you're one of MP's biggest fans there...
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But, but... you're one of MP's biggest fans there...
You really think that matters to the dude from American Chopper?
(https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/upfiles/35484/9E5E6E5DC227475B95F4CEB64ADC9747.jpg)
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But, but... you're one of MP's biggest fans there...
Well, we all know they can’t handle some criticism.
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Wow, clearly not - the forum is now read only!
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Portnoy just closed his forum because we weren't all sucking his dick over his most recent project no one cares about. He is such a selfish thin skinned twat.
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wow, The Forum is really dead now :( Not sure how to process that just now.
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Well, now that Blabbermouth is firmly in the Team Mikey camp (at least the 30 or so people that bothered to comment) I guess he doesn't need his old fans.
Do you think Blabbermouth will post a story on Mike shutting down his message board because he couldn't handle constructive criticism? Do you think it will be 100% positive comments?
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I'm surprised it didn't shut down when AMob came out. Seriously, the guy is in 87 bands and he expects us to like every one?
I wonder how many times throughout his career with DT did JP and the gang have to sit him down and calm him down after he read a negative DT review.
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I haven't been on the MP forum since MP split with DT, was there a lot of activity there?
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I haven't been on the MP forum since MP split with DT, was there a lot of activity there?
No. It has dwindled and dwindled since then. Mike has even made passive aggressive comments about the lack of activity in the last several years.
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Very petulant decision in my opinion, especially the abrupt way it was announced. An hour ago a mod was asking people to keep SoA discussion 'on topic' (a euphemism for "sing its praises or else"), all was fine and calm, and now the forum has been closed for good without any warning. Oh well. The end of an era, but all good things, etc. I'll miss a lot of the posters from there.
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(https://media3.giphy.com/media/x5rqM6KWJ07sc/giphy.gif)
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It'll be open eventually.
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Do we know it was Mike who shut down the DT forum? I always assumed. When was that, after Train of Thought?
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I haven't been on the MP forum since MP split with DT, was there a lot of activity there?
No. It has dwindled and dwindled since then. Mike has even made passive aggressive comments about the lack of activity in the last several years.
part of me believes this was just a long overdue end to its misery... but then another part is trying to reckon with losing something that was a part of my life every day for over 15 years.
edit: on the 10 year anniversary of KeithK's death no less, Wey even posted in that thread just before the closing happened, this is all so weird
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Just personally posted by Mike:
13 mins. ago (permalink)
Actually....I think it's time for a Permanent Vacation...
Thank you all for almost 20 years of The Forum
It was fun while it lasted!
MP
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What a nasty thing to do to an exceedingly loyal and tight-knit community.
I've joked in here about people needing to lighten up about Derek's dumb tweets but Mike closing down his forum actually offends my sensibilities. I never posted there or anything but jeez. I get that it can't feel good to have people on your personal website take shots at your art but at some point you gotta realize that, like it or not, you are also the steward of a global community that has existed for over a decade. It's rude as hell to just wipe that out on a whim.
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I was on rarely for a couple years. I enjoyed the Super Bowl Pool they had. Which, would be cool to do this year.
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It'll be open eventually.
"Actually....I think it's time for a Permanent Vacation...
Thank you all for almost 20 years of The Forum
It was fun while it lasted!
MP"
I'm not so sure it will now. I've frequented/lurked that forum nearly since its inception, and it sucks to see it end in such a childish act of petulance. If MP thinks this will end the criticisms, this latest move, I'm guessing, will only bring about more disapproval and even lose him a lot of fans. They still have Facebook and Twitter to fire barbs at him, and those arenas can be and are even nastier and more ruthless in voicing their opinions...
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Wow.... what a mature way to handle the situation by MP.... :mehlin :mehlin
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Posted on a Facebook group by the man himself:
"Sorry gang....just way too much bickering and negativity. Time to move on...it was a great while it lasted, but I can only take so much and I'm not interested in playing host to it anymore. We have plenty of interactive social media outlets and I will always be around watching and participating. Thanks to all who were a part of The Forum for almost 20 year! Luv, MP"
So because he can't handle Internet banter and negative feedback he shuts down the whole thing...
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At least he has Blabbermouth. The truth voice of the internet.
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Posted on a Facebook group by the man himself:
"Sorry gang....just way too much bickering and negativity. Time to move on...it was a great while it lasted, but I can only take so much and I'm not interested in playing host to it anymore. We have plenty of interactive social media outlets and I will always be around watching and participating. Thanks to all who were a part of The Forum for almost 20 year! Luv, MP"
So because he can't handle Internet banter and negative feedback he shuts down the whole thing...
Sounds like what he said when he shut down the official DT forums on their website.
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It'll be open eventually.
No, it will never be open again.
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I’ve been banned from that kingdom
Why where you banned while I wasn't. Maybe the admins were still handing out bans when MP kicked everyone out?
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I really feel bad for the other guys he's taking down with him.
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It'll be open eventually.
No, it will never be open again.
::)
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It'll be open eventually.
No, it will never be open again.
Winner! Close this thread and archive it.
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Simply a bad person. He killed a global community, one he once fostered, for his own vanity. On a day when people were posting remembrances on the anniversary of a fallen member of that community.
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Damn. I spent so much time at that place. I signed up when I was in jr high.
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I never joined MP's forum, but don't forum admins/mods usually give a heads up at least a few days before a permanent shutdown? Couldn't he at least have given the members some time to say goodbye?
MP a few months ago: nobody pay attention to what Blabbermouth says, they're all trolls over there
MP now: Blabbermouth likes this song, so it's your loss if you don't like it
:rollin
Christ.
He loves positive attention, just like a certain president. :P
Is it just me or is the guitar barely audible when he's not playing a lead of some kind? I can seem him playing heavy riffs, but all I hear is bass.
I first listened to the song on my phone speakers and could barely make out the guitar over the bass rumble. I know nothing sounds amazing on phone speakers, but I remember when I took a music studio course and we had a professional audio engineer as a guest speaker, he said your mix should be balanced enough so that you can make out all the main elements even on your grandma's old radio.
It'll be open eventually.
No, it will never be open again.
:clap:
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What a hasty decision by MP...
Had he just turn a blind eye and move on, things would have been much better for him. This is surely going to bite him in the ass in the long run!
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What a hasty decision by MP...
Had he just turn a blind eye and move on, things would have been much better for him. This is surely going to bite him in the ass in the long run!
I feel like I've read this post a thousand times before.
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What a hasty decision by MP...
Had he just turn a blind eye and move on, things would have been much better for him. This is surely going to bite him in the ass in the long run!
Yeah, I don't think it's a good move on his part, like at all! In the long run, I think it will be very damageable for him. I may be wrong, but, we'll see. Together with the tweets, the closure of MP.com may trigger off bad publicity for SoA.
B.Lee
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Back in the DT days I was actively lurking that forum, and I was checking it from time to time... pity it had to come down to this, I'm sorry for those who were active there.
In the era of social media, having a long running forum feels like a nice thing, for example when I was younger I basically cyber-lived on the Blind Guardian forum and that got me many friends, both italian and foreign, that I still have to this day, it was a pity to see everyone migrate to Facebook, but it would have been even worse to see the forum suddenly closed after criticisms of a new Blind Guardian album.
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Having been part of the MP forum since the month it launched 98/99 it's somewhat bittersweet to see this happen. But part of me am not surprised both in the sense of how MP acts and also how the forum slowed down recently. I mean, the petrucci forums have been down for a while as well now due to the same (latter) reason.
But him and Derek and the uninspired have killed any interest in this sad to say.
I won't see them live either, but maybe I'll catch the reunion tour in 3 years :P
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Oh, wow.
But it's probably all for the fans.
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Having been part of the MP forum since the month it launched 98/99 it's somewhat bittersweet to see this happen. But part of me am not surprised both in the sense of how MP acts and also how the forum slowed down recently. I mean, the petrucci forums have been down for a while as well now due to the same (latter) reason.
But him and Derek and the uninspired have killed any interest in this sad to say.
I won't see them live either, but maybe I'll catch the reunion tour in 3 years :P
so, without JLB I guess...
B.Lee
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Having been part of the MP forum since the month it launched 98/99 it's somewhat bittersweet to see this happen. But part of me am not surprised both in the sense of how MP acts and also how the forum slowed down recently. I mean, the petrucci forums have been down for a while as well now due to the same (latter) reason.
But him and Derek and the uninspired have killed any interest in this sad to say.
I won't see them live either, but maybe I'll catch the reunion tour in 3 years :P
so, without JLB I guess...
B.Lee
Nah, I was talking about the SoA reunion tour.
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That place was my online home for so long. I really liked what it became recently in the past couple years. Users like stadler, Bails, Dave_Manchester, and others have had quite the impact on me. I don't think MP owes me anything, but I still feel like I really lost something. I know we have this place, but I actually enjoyed having the small number of users we had over there. There was a level of intimacy that doesn't come easy to larger groups.
All good things must end, I guess.
Damn.
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That place was my online home for so long. I really liked what it became recently in the past couple years. Users like stadler, Bails, Dave_Manchester, and others have had quite the impact on me. I don't think MP owes me anything, but I still feel like I really lost something. I know we have this place, but I actually enjoyed having the small number of users we had over there. There was a level of intimacy that doesn't come easy to larger groups.
All good things must end, I guess.
Damn.
Yeah. I agree with most of this.
But times change and many do see forums as less relevant now. The decision to close it doesn't surprise me in the slightest and, ultimately, it's MP's ball and he can take it home if he wants to. Sad to see it go after 13 years of visiting there daily but... well... *shrug*.
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Wow, what a stupid reason to take down an entire forum. Everything about this entire situation screams childish, to put it mildly. Hopefully, many of the members will find a new home on DTF.
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It'll be open eventually.
No, it will never be open again.
::)
Seriously?
It'll be open eventually.
No, it will never be open again.
:clap:
It'll be open eventually.
No, it will never be open again.
Winner! Close this thread and archive it.
:tup
I've never visited the forum so this doesn't affect me at all, but fuck him for doing this, shows his true colours once again.
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How many people were actually regulars at MP.com? I would guess it didn't exceed the double digits.
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Seriously?
The whole reason why DTF exists at all is that this is actually not the first MP has closed a forum that were criticising his music...
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I was a regular, somewhat.
I'll admit, I was there to interact with the other forumers. This blows!
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I was on there (angra1) as a poster since February of 2000 (Rane among others, joined the same month).
It has been shutdown before, but for some reason this feels different.
Will have to give a more detailed commentary in allmediareviews later today.
End of an era I guess. The history still exists at least.
And like some other forums that RIP, there is a FB group for it for those interested.
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wI’ve been banned from that kingdom
Why where you banned while I wasn't. Maybe the admins were still handing out bans when MP kicked everyone out?
I seriously don’t get why they banned me. If you see my latest post I didn’t insult anyone. Nippet said it was because I broke a rule, but didn’t let know which one, I suspect it was one of those not written rules like talking about DT and as I was “defending” LaBrie and the Astonishing even thou I don’t like that album, well, maybe that was it.
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wI’ve been banned from that kingdom
Why where you banned while I wasn't. Maybe the admins were still handing out bans when MP kicked everyone out?
I seriously don’t get why they banned me. If you see my latest post I didn’t insult anyone. Nippet said it was because I broke a rule, but didn’t let know which one, I suspect it was one of those not written rules like talking about DT and as I was “defending” LaBrie and the Astonishing even thou I don’t like that album, well, maybe that was it.
I assumed it was the curiously bitchy exchange you and Rafael were enjoying :lol
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wI’ve been banned from that kingdom
Why where you banned while I wasn't. Maybe the admins were still handing out bans when MP kicked everyone out?
I seriously don’t get why they banned me. If you see my latest post I didn’t insult anyone. Nippet said it was because I broke a rule, but didn’t let know which one, I suspect it was one of those not written rules like talking about DT and as I was “defending” LaBrie and the Astonishing even thou I don’t like that album, well, maybe that was it.
I assumed it was the curiously bitchy exchange you and Rafael were enjoying :lol
I think I didn’t say anything wrong. Or you think I did?
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Wow, was a member of the MP forum for many years and it was a really great place for most of that time. Started to go downhill once the whole DT shenanigans went down and Weymolith left. It was then censored to the point that only one thread discussing DT was allowed and I finally gave up altogether when that thread was closed down and all DT discussion was banned because DT dared to play ACOS when he was planning to do it on his own tour. Why should I go and learn about MP's new projects and tours on his site when I was banned from discussing my favourite band and the band that most members of his forum actually knew him from. It was an idiotic move and traffic was always going to drop off because of it. Glad to see it backfired and he has now shut it altogether, sad to see from a guy who used to respect his fans and take part in the discussions himself. Now he keeps releasing mediocre stuff, hyping it to high heaven and people understandably react negatively when it is nowhere near as good as he told them it was going to be. Even the last NMB album, whilst it was very good, it was not even the best Neal Morse album for me and he was trying to put it up there with the greatest albums ever written.
Anyone still wonder why DT don't want him back?
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I think I registered in 2003 before Train of Thought came out and had been lurking for at least a couple years before I'd say. I was a regular on the DT.net forum before that and kept getting drawn to MP's direct involvement on his site and finally decided to join.
Almost 14 years, seems crazy to think so much time has passed. I'd like to say that I think MP will reconsider reopening the forum but at this point in time, I doubt it. It has been a fun and rough ride over there. Got banned only twice from what I remember, once for talking about the leaked Octavarium album and another time for accidentally pasting a link that broke rules.
I know a lot of the forumers from there have joined here too and I'm glad this place exists, but if the forum at mp.com is truly done with, then adios amigos.
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I was from Scenes from a Memory on until about three years ago when there was some sort of meltdown going on. Been back there only once or twice since, just doesn't feel good over there.
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I think I registered in 2003 before Train of Thought came out and had been lurking for at least a couple years before I'd say. I was a regular on the DT.net forum before that and kept getting drawn to MP's direct involvement on his site and finally decided to join.
Almost 14 years, seems crazy to think so much time has passed. I'd like to say that I think MP will reconsider reopening the forum but at this point in time, I doubt it. It has been a fun and rough ride over there. Got banned only twice from what I remember, once for talking about the leaked Octavarium album and another time for accidentally pasting a link that broke rules.
I know a lot of the forumers from there have joined here too and I'm glad this place exists, but if the forum at mp.com is truly done with, then adios amigos.
So, you have 1278 posts on DTF, and if MP.com has been really closed down, you will stop posting on DTF? It's an honest question, nothing provocative at all.
B.Lee
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Haha! Sorry re-reading my last sentence, not sure where I was going with that honestly. Didn't mean to make it sound that way. It was mostly just incoherent ramblings I suppose. Goes without saying I'm not going to stop posting here. In fact, I think, for the past year or so I've been posting here way more often that mp.com.
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He means adios to MP.com, I believe.
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Haha! Sorry re-reading my last sentence, not sure where I was going with that honestly. Didn't mean to make it sound that way. It was mostly just incoherent ramblings I suppose. Goes without saying I'm not going to stop posting here. In fact, I think, for the past year or so I've been posting here way more often that mp.com.
Ah, OK, I was wondering what you meant. Personally, I said goodbye to MP.com when Weymolith left. Nothing was the same without him and things really began to change, for worse. Glad you're staying with us.
B.Lee
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I would have understood the decision more if the Forum was shut down because of lack of traffic, not worth the maintenance, etc. But if it was ended because MP couldnt take the heat he was getting because of SOA and the stuff that DS was saying and loyal MP fans not liking the music? Then that's a shitty way to go and immature and childish way to close out it down by MP. If he feels his music needs to be targeted to Blabbermoutj posters, then so be it. Kind of sad what mP has turned into this last recent years, specially since he left DT
Been a long time and regular member there (probably since 2002 or so, maybe since 2000). Sad day indeed. Met so many good people along the way.
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How many people were actually regulars at MP.com? I would guess it didn't exceed the double digits.
I was a regular there up until the split. Then after the first batch of MPs statements and actions towards DT....specifically when he came out and said he did all he could to get back into the band but they didn't want him back blah blah blah......i PMd Wey or maybe Nippet and asked them to delete my account. Registered here after that and been here ever since.
Really enjoyed that forum up until that point. Bummer to hear that's how it all ended but honestly, is anyone surprised?
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In hindsight the writing was on the wall a couple of days ago when MP posted a long (for him) post in the SoA thread about how his own forum was the only place he was seeing negativity towards the music they'd released. "Everywhere ELSE" (his caps) was "unanimously positive" (which made me wonder which other places he'd been checking, because that's not been my perception).
I thought at the time that there was a lot of frustration in his post, even for him, and he brought up a lot of irrelevant information ("Derek & I just did a European Press Tour doing 50 interviews in Paris, London and Berlin and EVERY journalist was glowing with excitement and enthusiasm" - isn't that their job? How often does it happen that a weary journalist says to his interview subject "I've listened to your album and it's a bland pile of shit, but anyway let's talk about it").
It's a shame to see it go. I've PMed the regulars who aren't on here already, suggesting they think about joining. It'd be a pity to lose that community entirely. MP wanted a devotional fansite, not a forum, and he'll be able to craft his Facebook and Twitter followers into that. He wanted the SoA thread to be like his Twitter comments, where he'll suggest we "Imagine the swagger of WASP, the chops of Saxon, and the singer from Yngwie Malmsteen", and a hundred posts will cream over the idea, and prophesy the impending death of Dream Theater's popularity. That was never going to happen on there. As Peter Mc just wrote above, you can't hype things as highly as he does and always expect a correspondingly glowing response when it turns out to be not very good.
Oh well. Back to SoA discussion, and the irony is, both songs are now really growing on me (I was about to post that over there when it got shut down). I always liked Coming Home, but Signs of the Time (awkward title, can't get used to it) is starting to click, especially the instrumental section.
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MP also has a Forum over Facebook, and if you want to be there you have to lick his balls.
I got a warning not long ago for giving my impressions about Sings of the Time and my post got deleted. I will stick to this community as long as it remains open.
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MP also has a Forum over Facebook, and if you want to be there you have to lick his balls.
I got a warning not long ago for giving my impressions about Sings of the Time and my post got deleted. I will stick to this community as long as it remains open.
I'm on his FB forum, it's not run by him but he is a member. I've never had to suck up to him. I even said that JSS sounded like a low rent Russell Allen and nobody said much other than they agreed or disagreed.. no warnings/spankings/flaming.
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Wow just when I thought I couldn't be any more disappointed in MP. I was a member since 2007 and like many others started to make less frequent visits after the split and Wey left. Still, the whole social media excuse is bullshit. His whole handling of SoA since day one has been the nail in the coffin for my opinion of him. From the whining about spoiling who the members were to this is just to much. And on top of that I think the music is not good at all. I honestly feel bad for the other 3 guys in SoA not named Mike or Derek. Just ridiculous.
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I was a very active user there - that place became my 'home' so to speak for many years. I wasn't on the mods' good side because I thought it was disingenuous to be 100% fanboner-ing over everything Mike puts out instead of being honest. C'est la vie. He wants an echo chamber, boy, he's got it now, but I can't deny I'm extremely curious to see Blabbermouth get wind of this and write a story just days after Mike cited them for positive reinforcement re: SoA.
The Facebook forum group, where I pulled the quotes from Mike and Derek, is a great place, but also has some of the biggest fanboying I've ever seen for a musician. There's one guy in particular who literally acts like Mike's drumming in Coming Home is the second coming of Christ and, of course, hates Dream Theater post-split... ugh.
I honestly wonder if Mike is having some sort of crisis because he's hopping from band to band, short-lived project to short-lived project, with literally no stability like he had with Dream Theater. I hate to sound like some sort of keyboard psychologist, but...
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Wow...just wow. I guess most of what I have to say will simply echo what others have already said, but I must say that banning MinistroRaven (one of MP's most active and staunch supporters) and then closing the forum is pretty petty (in my opinion).
He obviously doesn't owe anyone anything, but he is in an industry where he is essentially vying for our hard-earned entertainment dollars and perception does mean something...and right now I am perceiving pettiness and I'm kinda over it.
Like many have said, when Wey left (follow closely by guys like Kirksnosehair) the forum became a bit less active; but there was a tight-knit community and some pretty awesome discussions over the years. At the center of this was MP...why wouldn't an artist want something like this in his backyard? Regardless of the opinions, discussion is key to the success of anything...good or bad, at least people were still talking.
Like most of you have said, I'm a huge fan of the man but am kinda disappointed. I'll akin this feeling to what it feels like when you meet a hero and you realize they just aren't that cool of a person...that's the closest comparison I can think of.
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I'm actually thinking that Neal should find another drummer for the NMB. They'd still have Flying Colors and probably Transatlantic. I just don't want that band to slow down putting out music waiting for MP. Those guys aren't getting any younger.
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Well I guess this place will be receiving a nice little bump of new regulars :lol
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Can't blame him one bit and I would have done the same but probably long ago. You get to a point in your life where you want to
leave negativity behind and focus on positive aspects and people.
I loved the place and the people and I will miss it but I appreciate MP keeping it open for so long and allowing us to have a place to
talk music.
Nothing lasts forever...time to move on!
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It's so self defeating to have a forum of your supporters and stifle discussion so you only hear what you want to hear. How can you judge your audience? It's your livelihood at stake. You will get dissenters but you might hear some home truths and everybody needs that.
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It's so self defeating to have a forum of your supporters and stifle discussion so you only hear what you want to hear. How can you judge your audience? It's your livelihood at stake. You will get dissenters but you might hear some home truths and everybody needs that.
Indeed, trolling and insults are never ok, but constructive criticism should be welcomed.
Am I remembering wrong, or did DT during the Astonishing shows organized the title track as encore after complaints that there was no formal bow + coming back was directed to them through this board? or at least through social media...
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Can't blame him one bit and I would have done the same but probably long ago. You get to a point in your life where you want to
leave negativity behind and focus on positive aspects and people.
I loved the place and the people and I will miss it but I appreciate MP keeping it open for so long and allowing us to have a place to
talk music.
Nothing lasts forever...time to move on!
Agreed 100%
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Can't blame him one bit and I would have done the same but probably long ago. You get to a point in your life where you want to
leave negativity behind and focus on positive aspects and people.
Hopefully then he'll move to step two and stop trying to foster environments where his followers and bandmates are encouraged to shit on Dream Theater at every opportunity.
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I might have grated on some people (unintentionally) but I was Firewings over there. I love all the forum members on my Facebook, and even text some regularly - if anyone wants to add me on social media just send me a PM. I love all the regulars on the MP forum and enjoy the people here as well. I would like to discuss Mike's projects with likeminded individuals on more than one place (not that there's anything wrong with this thread, I just like multiple outlets).
Also I apologize if I pissed anyone off ever. I feel like I had a hand in the forum getting shut down and I feel bad.
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This reminds me of when David Draiman shut down the Disturbed message board 11 years ago. He made some contradictory statements in a couple radio interviews and when called on it he got pussy and closed the forum.
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Okay, just a reminder: This thread is primarily for discussing SoA. I understand that, in light of the context of mp.com shutting down, some discussion of that is related. And I'm not one to be overly persnickety about going off on semi-related tangents. But when we wander off into discussing and criticizing Mike's character, we have not only gone off topic, but are in violation of rules about personal attacks and bashing former band-members and their music.
As we often say, and as it says in the forum rules, open, honest critique of the music is allowed, so long as it is constructive and not simply bashing. Attacks aimed at the person, no matter how "justified" one might feel that they are, are not welcome. SEVERAL posts over the last couple of pages have crossed the line. Under the circumstances, I get it, and I am not going to hand out warnings for those. But it needs to stop. Further insults or attacks on Mike's character will not be permitted. You can discuss his actions, and tactfully criticize them if you feel that is necessary and relevant. But be careful before you hit the "post" button if your post may be too close to the line.
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What a nasty thing to do to an exceedingly loyal and tight-knit community.
I've joked in here about people needing to lighten up about Derek's dumb tweets but Mike closing down his forum actually offends my sensibilities. I never posted there or anything but jeez. I get that it can't feel good to have people on your personal website take shots at your art but at some point you gotta realize that, like it or not, you are also the steward of a global community that has existed for over a decade. It's rude as hell to just wipe that out on a whim.
I can't speak for Mike, and I certainly can't compare my own forum to the size of his or how DTF has grown here. But I wanted to respond to the bolded part of what you said. I ran a forum devoted to Queensryche for more than 10 years. It became, at its high point in 2012, THE source for news on the band and held a treasure trove of information.
But at some point, you get haters for the way you and those who you rely on, run things. That leads to criticism, to bashing, to hurt feelings, and then finally, trolling. And the trolling gets old. It wasn't just MP that got bashed. Forum admins get trashed all the time for what they do. Hell, bosk1 has a group of people that constantly shit on him for the way he runs this place. And personally, my forum has been closed down since December, and there are trolls that literally stalk me online, clipping and pasting anything I say to libel me on another forum...even though the forum has been closed for nine months. :lol All of it -- what MP.com, here at DTF, and what I dealt with -- is pathetic.
The fact is, while you call it being "a steward of a global community that has existed for over a decade," and that "it's rude as hell to just wipe that out on a whim," there also comes a point in time that enough is enough. You're not wrong at all. But these forums become a huge burden. You wouldn't think that they do. It's just an online forum. But when what you say and do online, and in a community constantly gets bashed and misinterpreted, there's a breaking point for most people.
Mike Portnoy is a public figure. He's made some huge mistakes, but as a public figure, he's open to a higher level of scrutiny that guys like bosk1 and myself are NOT. And MP kept his forum alive for almost 20 years. That's...incredible, given the abuse he takes online. I lasted a bit more than a decade. How far will bosk last? I don't know, maybe for another 10 years, maybe another month. You have to ask him.
Again, you're not wrong, antigoon. But at some point, those that steward a community that is very much tied in with themselves personally, need to make decisions that help them move forward. I am sure MP realizes what he's done, and probably feels a bit bad about it too (I know I did). However, if he felt it needed to go away to help him get to a better place, I completely get it, and wish him the best, even if I am bummed that forum is down/gone.
SoA is Mike Portnoy's attempt to resurrect his love of progressive metal and give people a band in the creative vein he's most known for. And if his forum is being used by people to slag it, I can't blame him for being angry.
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Samsara - around 95% of the 'negativity' and 'bashing' towards SoA on his forum was directed at Derek's behaviour, which a lot of people found petty and spiteful. If MP had simply had a word with his bandmate and told him to tone it down, the 'negativity' would have ended and the discussion would have been on the music. But he didn't. Instead, he wrote a post chastising the users for not entering into the spirit of Derek's "quirky humor".
Which is fine, he can do that, but consistency matters. He can't find it hilarious to have his bandmate randomly decide to hurl unnecessary dig after dig at Dream Theater, and then when he receives some negative feedback, resurrect his usual shtick about 'negative trolls', 'why can't we all just get along?', 'why is everybody so mean and hateful?', and so on. It can't be "quirky banter" when Derek trashes The Astonishing, but criticism of SoA is 'uncalled-for negativity'.
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Can't blame him one bit and I would have done the same but probably long ago. You get to a point in your life where you want to
leave negativity behind and focus on positive aspects and people.
I loved the place and the people and I will miss it but I appreciate MP keeping it open for so long and allowing us to have a place to
talk music.
Nothing lasts forever...time to move on!
I honestly don't think there was that much negativity in as much as MP was being too sensitive. Sad it had to end over there the way it did.
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Samsara - around 95% of the 'negativity' and 'bashing' towards SoA on his forum was directed at Derek's behaviour, which a lot of people found petty and spiteful. If MP had simply had a word with his bandmate and told him to tone it down, the 'negativity' would have ended and the discussion would have been on the music. But he didn't. Instead, he wrote a post chastising the users for not entering into the spirit of Derek's "quirky humor".
Which is fine, he can do that, but consistency matters. He can't find it hilarious to have his bandmate randomly decide to hurl unnecessary dig after dig at Dream Theater, and then when he receives some negative feedback, resurrect his usual shtick about 'negative trolls', 'why can't we all just get along?', 'why is everybody so mean and hateful?', and so on. It can't be "quirky banter" when Derek trashes The Astonishing, but criticism of SoA is 'uncalled-for negativity'.
Understood. But all I am saying is, the decision for closing a forum is usually not based on one incident. It is generally something that has been decided on due to a building of problems and issues.
Trust me, I am no fan of how Mike Portnoy conducts himself online. However, I do respect, for whatever his reasons, his decision to close his forum, and thank him and his crew (Weymolith in particular) for what they did for that community. When you admin a popular forum, or put your name on it (in MP's case), it becomes very personal. And while I wish MP wouldn't have closed it, and I do very much see your point on what you're looking for (consistency) it isn't as easy as many seem to think it is.
I saw Chris above mentioned MP's "sensitivity." Agreed, he is very sensitive. But at the same time, again, there is a tipping point. And for MP, the last few days I guess was his. And while it is a bummer about the forum, I totally understand him pulling the plug.
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Yikes, this thread took a turn. It's a shame MP closed down his forum over SoA feedback...
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I'm not a MP.com user and only recently went over there to check it out, based on reading things in this thread. So I'll offer an opposing view on the situation and move on... maybe hosting a forum is just not worth it. If he/mods were slowly banning discussions, I can only imagine that was slowing traffic to the website. There must be some cost associated with running that website. Maybe he's slowly been reaching the point where the cost benefit wasn't there anymore. There's plenty of other social media platforms (also DTF) where people can discuss MP more freely so hosting your own distorted conversion probably doesn't make much sense. Sucks for the community, I think I'd be bummed to wake up and find DTF down for good.
Anyway, I'm seeing MP this weekend with TSF in NYC, so I'm looking forward to a more positive MP week personally.
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I'm not a MP.com user and only recently went over there to check it out, based on reading things in this thread. So I'll offer an opposing view on the situation and move on... maybe hosting a forum is just not worth it. If he/mods were slowly banning discussions, I can only imagine that was slowing traffic to the website. There must be some cost associated with running that website. Maybe he's slowly been reaching the point where the cost benefit wasn't there anymore. There's plenty of other social media platforms (also DTF) where people can discuss MP more freely so hosting your own distorted conversion probably doesn't make much sense. Sucks for the community, I think I'd be bummed to wake up and find DTF down for good.
Anyway, I'm seeing MP this weekend with TSF in NYC, so I'm looking forward to a more positive MP week personally.
Facebook has also decimated the need for a discussion forum, especially as fans create official or unofficial groups, it's easier for them to congregate on those forums rather than a web-based one.
The older I get, the more I understand why bands and musicians close official forums - their websites are a place for them to promote their new material, not get slagged on by fans. Even constructive criticism can become grating as a bunch of armchair quarterbacks argue about what they think is best for someone else's artistic talents. Yes, it's a good way to keep your finger on the pulse of the fanbase, but at the same time, when is it enough? In Portnoy's place - he can't win. Just like the Queensryche split, it seems like fans are completely rabid for one side or the other and 7 years later (in MP's place) fans just can't let go of the vitriol.
Is some of it his doing? Absolutely, but he doesn't have to host it and let it occur on his sites.
PS: I'm digging the tunes. Don't care one way or the other about the social media drama. I just want to rock. :metal
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^Agreed with pretty much all of that, Grapp. Good post.
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Back on topic....I'm digging the two new songs even if they aren't the least bit progressive. Just really good rockin' tunes! Bring on more.........
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I saw Chris above mentioned MP's "sensitivity." Agreed, he is very sensitive. But at the same time, again, there is a tipping point. And for MP, the last few days I guess was his. And while it is a bummer about the forum, I totally understand him pulling the plug.
The guy had a bird house, and at some point the bees moved in and it became a productive beehive. Were I a rock star (of some caliber) with that beehive in the back yard of my mansion, I would have left it alone while continuing to pay the yard guy a pittance to trim the grass around it from time to time. When something becomes a bigger thing than you'd originally foreseen (e.g. not just an artist forum, but a long-lasting global community) and it's no longer serving its intended purpose for you personally, just let it be. The forum's existence did Mike no harm--his continual refreshing of its threads and his obsession with the opinions of people on it did. It would have been an exercise in discipline to simply ignore it. Instead, in the end, he Nicolas Cage'd it.
"Not the bees!"
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I wished there was a way to thank MP on for his forum. It really was my 'education of the interwebz' Met a lot of cool people, traded many great DT shows, got free stuff, sent free stuff to many forumers, learned so much, discovered so much great music and amazing artists. It was truly a great place and all in all with all the drama and what not it was a fantastic place. If ever MP does read this, thank you from the bottom of my heart for that place.
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I wished there was a way to thank MP on for his forum. It really was my 'education of the interwebz' Met a lot of cool people, traded many great DT shows, got free stuff, sent free stuff to many forumers, learned so much, discovered so much great music and amazing artists. It was truly a great place and all in all with all the drama and what not it was a fantastic place. If ever MP does read this, thank you from the bottom of my heart for that place.
Yup.
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Man, I'm having a hard time thinking of a celebrity less discerning of criticism than MP. You either love him and everything about him or you're a hater bashing him. I almost feel bad for the guy, as he has no choice but to do what he does, it's in his nature, but what he does will always expose him to criticism of all sorts, which he has absolutely no ability to handle.
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I wished there was a way to thank MP on for his forum. It really was my 'education of the interwebz' Met a lot of cool people, traded many great DT shows, got free stuff, sent free stuff to many forumers, learned so much, discovered so much great music and amazing artists. It was truly a great place and all in all with all the drama and what not it was a fantastic place. If ever MP does read this, thank you from the bottom of my heart for that place.
Join his forum over Facebook and thank him, he always post there
Here’s the forum address https://m.facebook.com/groups/637641669735468
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I guess it's fitting that the last 2 posts at MP.COM were MP and Wey.
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I guess it's fitting that the last 2 posts at MP.COM were MP and Wey.
yeah I don't know if that was planned or not (MP sending him a heads up makes sense) but Wey posting in the KeithK thread, on the 10 year anniversary of his death, right before The Forum closes is something that will stick with me.
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..AND ANOTHER THING...
:angry:
..Wait, what ?!?! It's when ?!?!/ Great Scott !!! I SLEPT TOO LONG !!!!
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From the man himself:
RIP The Forum
Well, the time has finally come...
I have been contemplating this for a while now and feel it's time to finally move on.
In this age of interactive social media outlets, there are plenty of other platforms for us to all gather info and have discussions and I will always be around watching and participating there. (Facebook & Twitter)
The Forum will remain read-only and all threads will remain archived (including my Prog Blog and all of my Hero Of The Day posts from the late 90's and early 00's)
I will continue to post tour dates and release dates as they come in as well as keeping the tourography up to date.
Thanks MaBrown, Weymolith, Nippett, Painted Skies and all of YOU who were a part of The Forum for almost 20 years!
Luv, MP
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MP continues to be a source of wonderful schadenfreude.
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From the man himself:
RIP The Forum
I will continue to post tour dates and release dates as they come in as well as keeping the tourography up to date.
Honestly, this is all I care about anyway! :tup
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:lol MP bringing Kotow out of retirement baby.
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:lol MP bringing Kotow out of retirement baby.
All this going on and i've had to just sit back and do nothing !!!!
NOTHING !!!
Derek has caught douche. Until he was in SOA he seemed like a cool guy. Oh well.
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I was on MP's forum for close to the 20 years. Had some good times. I was more of a reader than a poster. Kina got disappointed there in the last few months.
Now I'm here. Been an avid DT fan since Awake.
All the crud aside, I am looking forward to SoA release. I'll wait to give my final verdict when I can hear the album in its entirety.
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I was on MP's forum for close to the 20 years. Had some good times. I was more of a reader than a poster. Kina got disappointed there in the last few months.
Now I'm here. Been an avid DT fan since Awake.
All the crud aside, I am looking forward to SoA release. I'll wait to give my final verdict when I can hear the album in its entirety.
Welcome to DTF, mate. Hope you enjoy your stay here.
B.Lee
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My fave thing about DTF ?
MP can't do a thing about it :)
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My fave thing about DTF ?
MP can't do a thing about it :)
Nah, he wants us here. We validate his victim status.
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The news got to BlabberMouth
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-shuts-down-his-official-forum-after-18-years-says-he-can-only-take-so-much-bickering-and-negativity/
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The news got to BlabberMouth
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-shuts-down-his-official-forum-after-18-years-says-he-can-only-take-so-much-bickering-and-negativity/
:corn
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At last no one has to worry about whether or not the quote function would work.
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Any punlicity is good eh?
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He wrote in a September 16 post: "When I hash-tagged #ProgMetal on the first day in the studio (before anything was written), that was the general idea *in mind*...but once we started writing together, the music ended up going in MANY places...and I think that is what will set this band apart from most in the 'prog' genre.
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-shuts-down-his-official-forum-after-18-years-says-he-can-only-take-so-much-bickering-and-negativity.html#2P5OGIhZDUgUF82k.99
The more I read this quote, the more I think SoA is standing out in the 'prog' genre... by not being all that prog? Is that the new meta? Prog has gotten so prog that it's prog to play not prog. Proggity.
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He wrote in a September 16 post: "When I hash-tagged #ProgMetal on the first day in the studio (before anything was written), that was the general idea *in mind*...but once we started writing together, the music ended up going in MANY places...and I think that is what will set this band apart from most in the 'prog' genre.
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-shuts-down-his-official-forum-after-18-years-says-he-can-only-take-so-much-bickering-and-negativity.html#2P5OGIhZDUgUF82k.99
The more I read this quote, the more I think SoA is standing out in the 'prog' genre... by not being all that prog? Is that the new meta? Prog has gotten so prog that it's prog to play not prog. Proggity.
Post-prog.
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Post-prog: where you play with 2 necks even though you only need 1.
Just trying to have some simple, harmless fun. :)
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Post-prog, when you only play two songs at a concert :lol
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/next-to-none/2017/center-stage-atlanta-ga-4be2df92.html (https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/next-to-none/2017/center-stage-atlanta-ga-4be2df92.html)
But seriously, I'm glad MP is coming out and saying that the music isn't actually all prog. Since it's clear the first two singles aren't that after advertising as such (and honestly, I think that's where my dislike of the music is driven from since the songs aren't bad, it just isn't what I expected and taking it out of that expectations, I enjoy the two songs much more) hurts the music. Just be honest, it's a hard rock album that has prog and other elements in it. (which is my assumption based on what I've heard and read)
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My fave thing about DTF ?
MP can't do a thing about it :)
Should've stayed retired! ;)
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Post-prog, when you only play two songs at a concert :lol
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/next-to-none/2017/center-stage-atlanta-ga-4be2df92.html (https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/next-to-none/2017/center-stage-atlanta-ga-4be2df92.html)
When I turn somebody onto Transatlantic I'll give them a copy of Live in Europe, and I always tell them "don't worry, it's only 6 songs, and one of them's pretty short."
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Here's the thing...Bumblefoot, Billy Sheehan and JSS aren't prog guys. I mean, yeah, JSS does TSO, which has prog leanings for sure. But really, the only two "prog" guys in the band are MP and DS. And if they truly wanted to do prog, they should have gotten guys known for that.
I mean, I'm not an uppity prog-snob. I'm what I'd refer to as a fan of more intelligent hard rock/metal with prog leanings. A lot of bands fall into that category to a degree -- Queensryche, Alter Bridge, Fates Warning, DT (more prog), Alice in Chains, etc. So, I am going into SoA (I haven't listened to the entirety of the songs released so far) just expecting some damn good heavy rock with some prog flourishes, mostly coming from the drums. I'm looking forward to it.
I'd be lying, however, if I said I wasn't disappointed with the people MP and DS chose. I was really hoping they'd go for a voice with less...miles on it than JSS, and I'm not at all sold with Bumblefoot and Billy Sheehan. I mean, I was one of the first to guess JSS, and I was right, and that really bums me out. Not that I don't love JSS -- I do. Great vocalist, hell of a nice guy. Just not who I wanted on THIS project. And to be honest, while I really do appreciate the talent of Billy and Bumble, I'm just tired of seeing them on every fucking record I buy (it seems like).
But it's not our band, right? So you take what you are given. And I'll check SoA out, and I really hope I love the album, despite my disappointment in some of the musicians chosen.
I gotta admit, I mean, I'm a guy for reunions and happy endings in music stories. I'd love to see MP return to Dream Theater. No disrespect at all whatsoever to Mike Mangini. And while I am not rooting for SoA to fail, I am hoping MP at some point calls JP, and the two of them work it out. There's no need for SoA. Just put the gang back together.
That said, here's hoping SoA is really good.
Sorry, my thoughts kinda got jumbled.
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I just wanted at least one post-DT band to sound good. I mean, for fucks sake, we had Russell Allen and Mike Portnoy in a band, and somehow that was a dumpster fire.
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I just wanted at least one post-DT band to sound good. I mean, for fucks sake, we had Russell Allen and Mike Portnoy in a band, and somehow that was a dumpster fire.
Seriously. I thought it would be amazing, but it quickly got pretty lame. I knew it wasn't a prog metal project, but I mean, MP and RA? How can you go wrong. Well, it did. Ugh.
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Goin' motherfuckin' psychosane.
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Calling out the (2) songs they've released as being non prog and giving them crap about it is perfectly warranted as DS has spent the past three months billing SOA and the new 'prog kings' and even as recently as yesterday hash tagged 'redefining prog' in one of his twitter posts.
You can't use 'prog' in every other sentence in your posts and interviews and then expect not to get called out and catch some grief when the first two singles you release have near zero prog elements.
Had DS not decided to wage a twitter war against DT and start the whole silly little 'kings of prog' crap and just released their songs and let them be what they were I think they'd have been received better. But you can't stand at home plate and call your shot then ground out on a weak dribble hit back to the pitcher and not expect to get made fun of.
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Goin' motherfuckin' psychosane.
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
So. Bad.
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Calling out the (2) songs they've released as being non prog and giving them crap about it is perfectly warranted as DS has spent the past three months billing SOA and the new 'prog kings' and even as recently as yesterday hash tagged 'redefining prog' in one of his twitter posts.
You can't use 'prog' in every other sentence in your posts and interviews and then expect not to get called out and catch some grief when the first two singles you release have near zero prog elements.
Had DS not decided to wage a twitter war against DT and start the whole silly little 'kings of prog' crap and just released their songs and let them be what they were I think they'd have been received better. But you can't stand at home plate and call your shot then ground out on a weak dribble hit back to the pitcher and not expect to get made fun of.
The forum Facebook group is all about calling everyone over there who voiced criticism 'trolls' and 'scumbags' now. This divide amongst fans is only growing, especially with the forum shutdown. This has not been handled well at all from the very start. What is going to be the reaction if the rest of the album is not all that prog after all?
The complaints about the songs not being prog is 100% valid and somehow that is not seen as an acceptable criticism. Now people think everyone on that site was just saying, "Fuck MP, where's the Dream Theater stuff we were promised?" when that is anything but what has been happening.
This is really embarrassing all around now and it makes me sad. You're either all in or not apparently.
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MP has the "fans" he deserves : with him, it's all black or white, so it is for a part of his fans. Frankly, given his attitude and DS's, it doesn't come as a surprise that some react the way they do. And no, we were not waiting for DT-type prog metal, we were just waiting for prog metal as had been announced. And the two songs released have nothing of that.
B.Lee
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The news got to BlabberMouth
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-shuts-down-his-official-forum-after-18-years-says-he-can-only-take-so-much-bickering-and-negativity/
The headline reads.
MIKE PORTNOY Shuts Down His Official Forum After 18 Years, Says He Can 'Only Take So Much' Bickering And Negativity
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-shuts-down-his-official-forum-after-18-years-says-he-can-only-take-so-much-bickering-and-negativity.html#4aK12vzATRyEoJxh.99
I thought it should read that after 2 weeks MP fires Derek for the second time because he can only take so much negativity.
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I went and listened to the two songs back to back.
Coming Home has quite a nice and addictive groove, the lyrics are quite meh. Enough with this "Yo I'm a tough guy" kind of stuff.
Sign of the Times has very nice vocals and melodies, not really caught so far by the instrumental section, looks like generic prog / rock doodling around on instruments but then again I was never a big instrumentals fan so don't mind me too much.
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Not gonna bash MP for the sake of it...But he'll never change... Just when you think he might have learned and moved on and grown up...Nope.
And I expected SOA to at last sound like DT - not some really generic hard rock which sounds like every other virtuoso supergroup - as someone else said.
It just screams "virtuoso supergroup".
And Derek is being un-necessarily dickish and for literally no reason.
The best thing is that nobody from DT has responded. And the more SOA throw dirt - the worse they'll look when DT don't reply.
It's absolutely the best way. Just don't respond.
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He wrote in a September 16 post: "When I hash-tagged #ProgMetal on the first day in the studio (before anything was written), that was the general idea *in mind*...but once we started writing together, the music ended up going in MANY places...and I think that is what will set this band apart from most in the 'prog' genre.
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-shuts-down-his-official-forum-after-18-years-says-he-can-only-take-so-much-bickering-and-negativity.html#2P5OGIhZDUgUF82k.99
The more I read this quote, the more I think SoA is standing out in the 'prog' genre... by not being all that prog? Is that the new meta? Prog has gotten so prog that it's prog to play not prog. Proggity.
Post-prog.
Alt-prog?
I thought it should read that after 2 weeks MP fires Derek for the second time because he can only take so much negativity.
That is what is the most disingenuous about this is that clearly he doesn't mind negativity as long as it is directed at his former band.
Dare I say that had Derek not started with the dumb tweets, this whole thing wouldn't have exploded like it did, MP's forum would still be open, and it may have even tempered the mediocre reaction a bit?
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That is what is the most disingenuous about this is that clearly he doesn't mind negativity as long as it is directed at his former band.
This.
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Kotowboy!!! :metal
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This is really embarrassing all around now and it makes me sad. You're either all in or not apparently.
Bipolarity encouraging bipolarity. Imagine that.
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He wrote in a September 16 post: "When I hash-tagged #ProgMetal on the first day in the studio (before anything was written), that was the general idea *in mind*...but once we started writing together, the music ended up going in MANY places...and I think that is what will set this band apart from most in the 'prog' genre.
Read more at https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-shuts-down-his-official-forum-after-18-years-says-he-can-only-take-so-much-bickering-and-negativity.html#2P5OGIhZDUgUF82k.99
The more I read this quote, the more I think SoA is standing out in the 'prog' genre... by not being all that prog? Is that the new meta? Prog has gotten so prog that it's prog to play not prog. Proggity.
Post-prog.
Alt-prog?
I thought it should read that after 2 weeks MP fires Derek for the second time because he can only take so much negativity.
That is what is the most disingenuous about this is that clearly he doesn't mind negativity as long as it is directed at his former band.
Dare I say that had Derek not started with the dumb tweets, this whole thing wouldn't have exploded like it did, MP's forum would still be open, and it may have even tempered the mediocre reaction a bit?
That's very true, not much negativity towards the songs, some indifference and some criticisms yes. Ironically in a weird way I agree with you Derek had a hand in shutting down the MP forums. The fans, me included weren't outraged by the songs but by all the chest pounding and cheap shots.
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Okay, just a reminder: This thread is primarily for discussing SoA. I understand that, in light of the context of mp.com shutting down, some discussion of that is related. And I'm not one to be overly persnickety about going off on semi-related tangents. But when we wander off into discussing and criticizing Mike's character, we have not only gone off topic, but are in violation of rules about personal attacks and bashing former band-members and their music.
As we often say, and as it says in the forum rules, open, honest critique of the music is allowed, so long as it is constructive and not simply bashing. Attacks aimed at the person, no matter how "justified" one might feel that they are, are not welcome. SEVERAL posts over the last couple of pages have crossed the line. Under the circumstances, I get it, and I am not going to hand out warnings for those. But it needs to stop. Further insults or attacks on Mike's character will not be permitted. You can discuss his actions, and tactfully criticize them if you feel that is necessary and relevant. But be careful before you hit the "post" button if your post may be too close to the line.
Just to remind everyone of this post from bosk. Keep it respectful.
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Kotowboy!!! :metal
Ko TWO boy actually.
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I'm not a MP.com user and only recently went over there to check it out, based on reading things in this thread. So I'll offer an opposing view on the situation and move on... maybe hosting a forum is just not worth it. If he/mods were slowly banning discussions, I can only imagine that was slowing traffic to the website. There must be some cost associated with running that website. Maybe he's slowly been reaching the point where the cost benefit wasn't there anymore. There's plenty of other social media platforms (also DTF) where people can discuss MP more freely so hosting your own distorted conversion probably doesn't make much sense. Sucks for the community, I think I'd be bummed to wake up and find DTF down for good.
Anyway, I'm seeing MP this weekend with TSF in NYC, so I'm looking forward to a more positive MP week personally.
Facebook has also decimated the need for a discussion forum, especially as fans create official or unofficial groups, it's easier for them to congregate on those forums rather than a web-based one.
The older I get, the more I understand why bands and musicians close official forums - their websites are a place for them to promote their new material, not get slagged on by fans. Even constructive criticism can become grating as a bunch of armchair quarterbacks argue about what they think is best for someone else's artistic talents. Yes, it's a good way to keep your finger on the pulse of the fanbase, but at the same time, when is it enough? In Portnoy's place - he can't win. Just like the Queensryche split, it seems like fans are completely rabid for one side or the other and 7 years later (in MP's place) fans just can't let go of the vitriol.
Is some of it his doing? Absolutely, but he doesn't have to host it and let it occur on his sites.
PS: I'm digging the tunes. Don't care one way or the other about the social media drama. I just want to rock. :metal
This is a really excellent post, I agree with literally all of it.
Here's the thing...Bumblefoot, Billy Sheehan and JSS aren't prog guys. I mean, yeah, JSS does TSO, which has prog leanings for sure. But really, the only two "prog" guys in the band are MP and DS. And if they truly wanted to do prog, they should have gotten guys known for that.
If you mean "prog" as a genre, then yes, but Bumblefoot is arguably more experimental and quirky (which I would call proggy) than any of them. But from what we've heard so far, I wonder if his songwriting is different when working with others than when he's writing just for himself.
You can't use 'prog' in every other sentence in your posts and interviews and then expect not to get called out and catch some grief when the first two singles you release have near zero prog elements.
Not sure I agree with this. There's nothing "prog" about Coming Home, but that's just one song - there are plenty of DT songs that statement would apply to as well. But I would definitely call Signs of the Time prog.
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+1 for me on " why does Billy have a double neck bass when both necks are fretted 4 strings ? "
If they're both E A D G - then it was a massive waste of the luthier's time.
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Kotowboy!!! :metal
Ko TWO boy actually.
Woah, wait, what?
Why are you using a duplicate account? Only one account per member.
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Holy cow, I missed that. Yes what Rich said.
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Where's Stadler?
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Kotowboy!!! :metal
Ko TWO boy actually.
Woah, wait, what?
Why are you using a duplicate account? Only one account per member.
Then just delete the other one...
I can't post from it anyway.
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yes hello i would please like to request one (1) alt account to pose as the leader of max portnoy's greenlandic fan club. thank you for your time
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yes hello i would please like to request one (1) alt account to pose as the leader of max portnoy's greenlandic fan club. thank you for your time
My name is Mr Thompson.
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Where's Stadler?
Collecting his personal belongings and saying goodbye to his cellmates.
(serving the last few hours of his ban, he'll be around tomorrow I think)
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Stadler got banana'd ?
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Where's Stadler?
Stadler was like an Obscurus from Harry Potter. Now that the negativity from the MP forum has been released, Stadler no longer exists.
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LOL at Dave and Rumbo posts
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Oh... THAT Dave
:emo:
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Where's Stadler?
Stadler was like an Obscurus from Harry Potter. Now that the negativity from the MP forum has been released, Stadler no longer exists.
Like shooting fish in a barrel on this forum.
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Kotowboy!!! :metal
Ko TWO boy actually.
Woah, wait, what?
Why are you using a duplicate account? Only one account per member.
Then just delete the other one...
I can't post from it anyway.
Nice try. But since you were banned on the other account, you don't get to sneak back in with a different account.
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But he put the two in there. That has to count for something.
Anyway.
So I've listened to both singles a few times. I honestly have no idea what either sounds like at the moment. I remember the keyboard riff from coming home and I remember JSS's very cool vocal scream in the beginning. That's literally it.
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Anyway.
So I've listened to both singles a few times. I honestly have no idea what either sounds like at the moment. I remember the keyboard riff from coming home and I remember JSS's very cool vocal scream in the beginning. That's literally it.
Yeah, others have commented on it, and I have to agree. I don't think this is a function of us being prog heads and not being able to appreciate good rock. I think even as rock tunes they are kinda weak, especially the second one.
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Yea, I'm not even a huge prog guy. I love good groovy rock/metal. So my criticism of the songs isn't based at all on the progness or lack their of.
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Actually it's because we're misogynists.
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I actually really like both songs....just disappointed in the style.
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So I've listened to both singles a few times. I honestly have no idea what either sounds like at the moment. I remember the keyboard riff from coming home and I remember JSS's very cool vocal scream in the beginning. That's literally it.
You don't remember the fucking awesome part where Soto goes "I'm coming hooooome" and Portnoy goes "I'm coming hooooome"?
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So I've listened to both singles a few times. I honestly have no idea what either sounds like at the moment. I remember the keyboard riff from coming home and I remember JSS's very cool vocal scream in the beginning. That's literally it.
You don't remember the fucking awesome part where Soto goes "I'm coming hooooome" and Portnoy goes "I'm coming hooooome"?
Nope. I remember the those lines from Alter Bridge and James LaBrie though. Oddly enough.
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So I've listened to both singles a few times. I honestly have no idea what either sounds like at the moment. I remember the keyboard riff from coming home and I remember JSS's very cool vocal scream in the beginning. That's literally it.
You don't remember the fucking awesome part where Soto goes "I'm coming hooooome" and Portnoy goes "I'm coming hooooome"?
Nope. I remember the those lines from Alter Bridge and James LaBrie though. Oddly enough.
What about the overbearing old-man-cool distorted bass line?
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I remember that it existed, but can't remember any actual riffs.
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I'm afraid I'm going have to diagnose you with a selective memory that discriminates against run-of-the-mill butt rock.
There is no treatment. Make the best of your remaining days.
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I was on MP's forum for close to the 20 years. Had some good times. I was more of a reader than a poster. Kina got disappointed there in the last few months.
Now I'm here. Been an avid DT fan since Awake.
All the crud aside, I am looking forward to SoA release. I'll wait to give my final verdict when I can hear the album in its entirety.
Welcome! :tup :tup
Man, I'm having a hard time thinking of a celebrity less discerning of criticism than MP. You either love him and everything about him or you're a hater bashing him. I almost feel bad for the guy, as he has no choice but to do what he does, it's in his nature, but what he does will always expose him to criticism of all sorts, which he has absolutely no ability to handle.
Well said.
He certainly has the right to not host a forum on his own site that he feels doesn't reflect positively on him, but this is now the 2nd time in the last 10 years that he has, out of nowhere, with ZERO warning, cut the cord on an online forum comprised of fans. Not exactly fan-friendly, is it? As much as he pats himself on the back for supposedly being fan-friendly, he sure does a lot of things that are contradictory to that mantle he has given himself.
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From Blabbermouth comments:
"Within days after shutting it down, he'll beg the webmaster to put it back up saying he just wanted a break."
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From Blabbermouth comments:
"Within days after shutting it down, he'll beg the webmaster to put it back up saying he just wanted a break."
:rollin
Meanwhile, will he create an account on the A7X forum?
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:lol
Oy shit, where to begin... ok, so I've listened to the SoA songs, they do nothing for me.
I never was on MP forums, so while I do feel the pain of others, like SoA, this really doesn't do anything for me either.
I do have to say though, the last two or three pages have been some brilliant reading.
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HEY! KOTOWBOY IS BA--
Goddamnit.
Okay.. my thoughts: Meh. Mike cant take people's criticism. That's okay. His right. It's shitty but he paid to keep the lights on over there. I just hope that the people who migrate over here are chill.
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An admin disallowed comments on the Blabbermouth post over MP FB page and said:
1) Negative critics about SoA were not the reason MP decided to shut down the forum. It was the constant attack between users that never stopped, regardless of the countless warnings and the hard work of the moderators on that site.
2) If you want to discuss the Blabbermouth news, go to Blabbermouth and do so there.
3) If you STILL (after almost 8 years) want to compare every single thing MP releases with DT stuff in a negative way, please go to any of the DT forums to do so.
4) We are happy to see a lot of the familiar faces from the mikeportnoy.com forum joining this page. We are getting a lot of join requests since last night. You are all welcome and we hope we can be as fun as that place used to be for many years... But now, if you just want to continue with the unnecessary negativity, the ad hominem arguments, and the childish ego wars that caused the end of that place, please don't come here.
5) Check your FB inbox, we are sending some final warnings to some of the people that insist on the behaviour mentioned above.
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Mike Portnoy's Shattered Feelings?
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Samsara - around 95% of the 'negativity' and 'bashing' towards SoA on his forum was directed at Derek's behaviour, which a lot of people found petty and spiteful. If MP had simply had a word with his bandmate and told him to tone it down, the 'negativity' would have ended and the discussion would have been on the music. But he didn't. Instead, he wrote a post chastising the users for not entering into the spirit of Derek's "quirky humor".
Which is fine, he can do that, but consistency matters. He can't find it hilarious to have his bandmate randomly decide to hurl unnecessary dig after dig at Dream Theater, and then when he receives some negative feedback, resurrect his usual shtick about 'negative trolls', 'why can't we all just get along?', 'why is everybody so mean and hateful?', and so on. It can't be "quirky banter" when Derek trashes The Astonishing, but criticism of SoA is 'uncalled-for negativity'.
Totally agree with that!
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I joined the MP forum back in 2003 (hence my username) to try to sell an extra pair of tickets I had for a DT show, and I quickly fell in love with the place. I've been a HUGE fan and supporter of MP since 1993 and I don't know that there is an album he has played on since then that I did not buy. I have enjoyed all of his bands (even AMob to some degree) and I always get excited to see what's next for him.
With that said the recent events have left a really bad taste in my mouth. There were a few times in the past week where I started to post a message to get my feelings off my chest, but I just couldn't as I didn't think it was right to do in Mike's house. More or less there have just been several times since the split that I have found myself very disappointed and letdown by Mike's actions. It just got to be too much lately on his forum where you basically were not allowed to say anything negative about his music or anything positive about DT. I always had the impression that the reason Mike left DT was because he thought he'd get the full time gig with A7X and then when that fell through he realized he made a big mistake, but it's just been disappointing the way he has handled himself. I will still continue to support his music as he is one of my favorite musicians of all time, but I just don't know that I can ever view him the way I used to and it's a sad feeling.
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Mike Portnoy's Shattered Feelings?
Or Mike Portnoy's Shattered Focus.
If only he could ignore what we think and concentrate on what matters: producing pseudo-angry politely-in-your-face post-manopausal dad rock with world-class session musicians who aren't known for masterminding amazing music.
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I'm not a MP.com user and only recently went over there to check it out, based on reading things in this thread. So I'll offer an opposing view on the situation and move on... maybe hosting a forum is just not worth it. If he/mods were slowly banning discussions, I can only imagine that was slowing traffic to the website. There must be some cost associated with running that website. Maybe he's slowly been reaching the point where the cost benefit wasn't there anymore. There's plenty of other social media platforms (also DTF) where people can discuss MP more freely so hosting your own distorted conversion probably doesn't make much sense. Sucks for the community, I think I'd be bummed to wake up and find DTF down for good.
Yeah I'm surprised you're the only one suggesting it was a cost cutting measure. I haven't been keeping up on the topics recently but running a website and employing two different moderators isn't free.
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HOLY SHIT!
Im torn over this.
I can see how you dont want to see your new album get a lot of shit, and in your website. And it's not any side project they're shitting on, I read somewhere that he intended this to be his main band.
On the other hand. 18 fucking years, and we got discarded like a piece of shit. I do not consider me a so called "snowflake" but that shit really piss me the fuck off. No warning, just unplug.
I thought Mike knew better, as in back in the DT days 2 weeks before and after, he didnt take any new members and banned all discussion regarding the new album. To steer clear of shit like this. He took the easy way out, just shut down the whole thing.
...
...
I was pissed at Mike when he left DT, but stuck by MP.com because of the people, and because I like the music he's been involved. Now this. It's the 2nd time he's taken a massive shit on his fans.
Mike if you're reading this. You're a very talented man, but I think this was handled wrong.
Now begins the requiem for MP.com:
Octobarns thread
Prognostications
Hey Wey thread
photoshop competition threads
SteveJohnson Ghaal adventures
Is Big Suave around to post the links? :P
So many memories :-\
I guess this is my house now, what do you guys have going? :hat
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"Is DTF still a thing?"
Isn't it Ironic..don'tcha think?
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"Is DTF still a thing?"
Isn't it Ironic..don'tcha think?
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Just to point this out here, after JP's forum shut down, and JLB's, and yes, JM's, and now MP's, the only remaining individual DT member's forum is ....
Dominici.com
Awwwwww yeah :coolio
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Did anyone notice in his final post Mike didn't thank DaveH? What's with that?
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Just to point this out here, after JP's forum shut down, and JLB's, and yes, JM's, and now MP's, the only remaining individual DT member's forum is ....
Dominici.com
Awwwwww yeah :coolio
Hmmm...So there's a band without a forum.....and a forum without a band. :facepalm:
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The drama around this project (and MP/DS aren't the only ones to blame) has really killed my interest in the release. Whether or not it had anything to do with MP pulling the plug on the forum, he must know that the timing on this is not good. He could've waited until the hype cycle for the album was over and (as some others mentioned) at least give a month's notice or something.
As for SOA being prog, I had a hard time believing this was going to sound anything like DT's brand of music. None of these musicians, while clearly technically gifted, have that sort of background. Even MP has been out of DT and in other projects long enough that I'm more likely to associate his playing style with something like Winery Dogs than Dream Theater. I expect this album to be more like a heavy Kansas than a heavy Yes: some very proggy moments throughout but under the guise of straightforward hard rock.
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This hasn't been mentioned in a while, but I can't get over the name of the album. It's such a bland "adjective+noun oxymoron" name, it kinda shows that they're not exactly "on the pulse of things", to say the very least.
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Yeah I'm surprised you're the only one suggesting it was a cost cutting measure. I haven't been keeping up on the topics recently but running a website and employing two different moderators isn't free.
After further research I see that it was because of the "negativety." It's sad. I think MP is mostly a good guy, he just has some thin skin.
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Just listened to the Derek Sherinian podcast here: https://www.hardradio.com/hr3.html?https://www.hardradio.com/shockwaves/shockwaves.php3
It's weird - I've don't like the way Derek has handled himself at all regarding this whole mess, but even so I found myself falling for the hype a little bit. He's just so confident about how awesome this album is going to be, and I was starting to believe it; "maybe this really will be something." Until he talked that same way about Signs of the Time and I was like "wait a minute...." I don't know what his deal is, but I'm not a fan of how he presents things.
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Just to point this out here, after JP's forum shut down, and JLB's, and yes, JM's, and now MP's, the only remaining individual DT member's forum is ....
Dominici.com
Awwwwww yeah :coolio
Wait JP's forum shut down? When?
I haven't been there in a quite a while but that was the forum I'd hang out on and discover some of my now favorite guitar players.
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This hasn't been mentioned in a while, but I can't get over the name of the album. It's such a bland "adjective+noun oxymoron" name, it kinda shows that they're not exactly "on the pulse of things", to say the very least.
The track title Figaro's Whore is what bothers me for some reason. I cannot put my finger on it, you guys probably wouldn't understand. This isn't how I usually am.
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Mike should have just waited a bit and started a band with Geddy lee and Neal schon.
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Just to point this out here, after JP's forum shut down, and JLB's, and yes, JM's, and now MP's, the only remaining individual DT member's forum is ....
Dominici.com
Awwwwww yeah :coolio
JLB's forum is up and running, sure it's quiet, but it's still there. I was a regular there for many years. Funny thing I still remember, someone registered there to criticize rudely Mike's backing bocals, and Mike himself registered to answer back to the troll, in the "occupation" field he inserted "James' drummer... (actually, he's my singer!)", that was funny :lol
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JLB's forum is up and running, sure it's quiet, but it's still there. I was a regular there for many years. Funny thing I still remember, someone registered there to criticize rudely Mike's backing bocals, and Mike himself registered to answer back to the troll, in the "occupation" field he inserted "James' drummer... (actually, he's my singer!)", that was funny :lol
Wow, not sure if I find this funny or creepy.
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I don't know if I'm right because I'm not in the music industry, but , to me, a band started by 50 year olds isn't bound to succeed (I'm an old fart myself) because there's absolutely no chance that you will attract new fans. Granted, people already familiar with and liking MP, DS...will listen to the band but apart from that... (maybe I'm wrong after all).
As I said a few pages back, the problem with SoA is not the music per se which, while being not that good is not bad, it's the hype created that has been misleading.
B.Lee
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JLB's forum is up and running, sure it's quiet, but it's still there. I was a regular there for many years. Funny thing I still remember, someone registered there to criticize rudely Mike's backing bocals, and Mike himself registered to answer back to the troll, in the "occupation" field he inserted "James' drummer... (actually, he's my singer!)", that was funny :lol
Wow, not sure if I find this funny or creepy.
He can't help himself. He ought to leave that completely alone I reckon, and hire someone to take care of the social media side of things. He just doesn't have thick enough skin for it and I don't really blame him for that but he needs to take a step back; obsessing over what people are saying about you online as much as he appears to would drive anybody up the wall.
As for SoA, generic
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"The Bland new Kings of generic hardrock" does not have the same ring to it I guess but would be more truthfull.
Mike posted on facebook:
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How are we not even pictured on this front page?? Show them that Sons Of Apollo is the most anticipated release of Oct 2017!!!
https://loudwire.com/vote-most-anticipated-release-october-2017/
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Almost answered that it might be becasuse SoA is not that anticipated.... but refrained from it
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The new viscounts of prog metal?
I am sure I'll check the album out but it's not gonna be a matter of setting everything else aside and lying in the dark with my headphones on in order to fully immerse myself. I wouldn't have done it for AMob and I'm not gonna do it here
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You don't remember the fucking awesome part where Soto goes "I'm coming hooooome" and Portnoy goes "I'm coming hooooome"?
I think that was the point where I switched the song off the second time through.
There's a world of difference between "can sing" and "good singer", let alone "excellent singer" which JSS is in spite of my lack of connection with his vocals for this project so far, and MP's very much in the "can sing" category as far as I'm concerned. Maybe I'm doing him a disservice because I dislike his singing voice...
Mind you, I'd say the weakest link in this band is Billy Sheehan. I like him in the right context but I don't think this is it. There's enough fighting for space between the keyboards and the guitar without the bass fancying itself as the most valuable guitar in the band.
I've not given up hope on the project yet but I don't see it exactly being the release of the year.
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Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
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I don't know if MP and DS realize that their core audience is going to be DT fans. And the fact that DS was shitting on JR and JLB (albeit a bit disguised) does not help much when a large portion of your core audience still loves both of those characters (to varying degrees, of course). I also don't know if MP even remember -why- the fan base hated on DS in 97-98. It wasn't because of the music, at least not the major part of it. It was because of his "rock star" mentality and persona that just didn't fit in with the laid back personas of the rest of the band. It was as though you had a jock in a band of geeks. I mean, ffs, lava lamps and static-displaying tvs on stage? Wearing sunglasses indoors? Fans at the time hated that. I was a bit perplexed as to why they hated it myself, because I had at that time never witnessed another version of DT (Dereks DT was my first DT and my first live experience - and I was 18 at the time - I didn't know any better).
And I don't see that they have any strong prog metal writers in the band. I don't mean that they don't know how to compose and arrange songs. I mean, it's not their strongest element. Derek has always had the benefit of having strong players with him on his solo/Planet X stuff that helped him write the songs (Planet X was mostly composed by Virgil Donati if I remember correctly, and most of his solo-stuff was co-written by whoever played drums or guitar on the track). Ron Thal writes some pretty hard rocking tunes, but they're usually firmly seated in the hard rock category with some wild solos in them, not in the prog category. MP and BS has usually benefitted from other song writers and their roles have been more of "spice it up"-ers, adding riff ideas, composition notes etc. JSS isnt really known for prog metal, so...
The songs are good metal songs, and has some awesome instrumental sections that are just mindboggling. As I would've expected from players like Derek and Ron Thal. But I wouldn't really call it prog metal as such. It does suffer a bit from the same thing I criticized SC and BCSL for back in the day - the "cut and paste" composition style. Long songs are long because of random sections are pasted together, not because they're a coherent piece that flows naturally. And it's a bit one dimensional, at that, the sound is pretty much the same throughout. The energy is similar throughout. There's no "balance". No variety. It's balls to the walls metal. Which is fine, and I can dig that too. But it's not an album that will be remembered as a pillar of "prog metal". It's not even an album that will be remembered as the best prog metal album of the year :P
Don't get me wrong, it's a good album. I like it. I have no problem listening to it and digging it for what it is. It has a bunch of awesome riffs, and some of the instrumental sections in the longer songs are insane. And I dig JSS' voice, although I'd hoped we'd see more variety in how he uses it - it's mainly just the gruff metal version of his voice - and I know he has MUCH more variety as we've seen in his other work (solo and with Yngwie etc). I get it that the band wants to hype it. They're proud of it. For good reason too. But they tried to hype it up to something that it isn't and thats probably more harmful than helpful at this point, because - as I started with - their core audience is gonna be DT fans. And they'll take no bullshit.
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JLB's forum is up and running, sure it's quiet, but it's still there. I was a regular there for many years. Funny thing I still remember, someone registered there to criticize rudely Mike's backing bocals, and Mike himself registered to answer back to the troll, in the "occupation" field he inserted "James' drummer... (actually, he's my singer!)", that was funny :lol
Wow, not sure if I find this funny or creepy.
He can't help himself. He ought to leave that completely alone I reckon, and hire someone to take care of the social media side of things. He just doesn't have thick enough skin for it and I don't really blame him for that but he needs to take a step back; obsessing over what people are saying about you online as much as he appears to would drive anybody up the wall.
As for SoA, generic
Hell, I remember during the release of BC&SL someone mentioned they didn't like the harsh vocals he attempted on Nightmare to Remember. He chimed in saying something like he knew before he even recorded it that "trolls" and "haters" would have something to say, but that he stepped up and did what the song called for. I just remember thinking, then maybe you shouldn't have written it to call for something you can't do? MP loves to be praised as the tireless rock god. He talks about his fans as if they're children he's providing for, not that they're paying his salary. I personally think "Never Enough" is the most cringey song from a lyrics perspective that I've ever heard. Criticizing your own fans? Blaming them for you "neglecting [your] wife and kids"? That's so tacky.
I am interested to see what happens when the whole album is released. I do wonder if they do really mix it up on some of the longer tunes, or what direction it all goes in. I'm not holding my breath for an amazing release, but I am at least curious. I also realistically hope he's able to cope when this doesn't do much different commercially than any of the other projects he's had recently. As much as I think he's a man child whose hubris is his biggest downfall, I don't enjoy seeing people set up to fail.
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Excellent post, Noxon.
My first DT experience was back in 1993, but I first saw them live with DS on board. And my reaction was as you stated : WTF?!? JP, JM (to some extent), JLB and MP had also cut their hair (MP had the cauliflower haircut as I call it), JP had a grunge look, DS had a lava lamp and a drink on his keyboard....I remember telling myself : Where the f*** am I?!? Hopefully, the music spoke for itself but still...
And you're right about their core fans : DT fans to begin with. Don't sell them your music as prog metal if it isn't. They-we- are bound to slap you in the face for it! :biggrin:
B.Lee
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Hi everybody i'm also from the Mp-forum leftovers a DT fan since '92 :biggrin: Not a regular poster but i checked in everyday.Maybe i shouldn't have said that i thought The Astonishing is a masterpiece.Well whatever.I more or less was around there for the music advices from the likes of emtee or angra or i would never had found Kindo or TDH.Great to see some of the other guys/girls here!!
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This hasn't been mentioned in a while, but I can't get over the name of the album. It's such a bland "adjective+noun oxymoron" name, it kinda shows that they're not exactly "on the pulse of things", to say the very least.
Interestingly, this is where I knew the album would not offer much originality to the genre of progressive music.
It reminds me of when Systematic Chaos was titled, the guys in the band decided their brand of progressive music was "chaotic, but systematic" hence the name.
Fast-forward to those two interview videos SoA did, and you have (I forget) Bumblefoot or JSS talking about how their brand of progressive rock is "psychotic, yet symphonic".
Alright, we get it. Progressive music is kinda complex and loud, while appealing to classical traditions. Astute observation. Anything else? :lol
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Hi everybody i'm also from the Mp-forum leftovers a DT fan since '92 :biggrin: Not a regular poster but i checked in everyday.Maybe i shouldn't have said that i thought The Astonishing is a masterpiece.Well whatever.I more or less was around there for the music advices from the likes of emtee or angra or i would never had found Kindo or TDH.Great to see some of the other guys/girls here!!
Hi, there. We're a nice community in spite of all that has been said. Enjoy the ride!
B.Lee
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"Is DTF still a thing?"
Isn't it Ironic..don'tcha think?
POW!
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I'm surprised MP hasn't thrown in a marriage analogy about all the forum fans he's just cut off.
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So I listened to that Derek podcast (or at least, the first 20 minutes)... Nothing about this sounds like something any of them should dedicate to as their 'full time gig.'
Derek seems to have aspirations of playing arenas and selling buku numbers of CDs. Thinks these guys, who are already well known in the music industry, are somehow going to take off just based on their name and one CD. They've apparently set aside all of 2018 for a tour. Okay? And? Mike set aside (x) years for Winery Dogs/Flying Colors, and then was onto something else the next year. Billy Sheehan is 64 years old for crying out loud, does he really think a band with a 64 year old bassist is going to attract a younger crowd (something any band needs if they have dreams of growing)? What are they going to do when the CD moves a few thousand copies and they play clubs that are 'beneath' their expectations? Mike's actions come off looking so defensive that I can't imagine these aren't concerns in the back of his mind. He loves playing with different bands, but without having a solid, super popular home base (like Dream Theater) it seems like it's become a job more than ever, since he *has* to keep trying to make something that knocks it out of the park (both in sales and fan reception).
Add all this stupid drama to it and it's looking like one giant clusterfuck, silly publicity to cushion mediocre hard rock.
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Fortunately for me, I am one to build my own opinions and thoughts on music, and whether or not I enjoy what I hear.
I'm not going to allow myself to be swayed by forum posts, or be influenced by the ridiculous behavior of said band members. Let's not forget that Derek acted over the top when he was part of Dream Theater. Although I wasn't a big fan of his mouth or ridiculous behavior then, I continued following the band.
Fast forward to the present, and here we go again with another band and Derek's mouth, however; I have enjoyed what I have heard from SOA and pre-ordered the new album. I could care less about labeling the music, or basing my thoughts on the words of "fanboys" or band members.
As a former vocalist, I let the lyrics and the emotional vibe of the music guide me.
Sure, it's not DT, but I personally feel that this band has a great sound and vibe, and I'm more than happy and excited to see what the whole album offers.
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The whole prog/non-prog thing is a bit of an issue for me as I have not really been sold on Mike's other projects since leaving DT, it wouldn't have mattered though if these new songs were brilliant hard rock songs and blew me away. A return to prog metal though had me excited about what he'd come up with, not a massive fan of DS even when in DT (loved his solos as he has a cool lead sound but nothing inspired about his playing in the rest of the song for me) but Mike promised full on superstars for the other members and I was cautiously optimistic.
That optimism fell a bit when the other members were announced and it was Ron Thal and JSS who are not even remotely big names and not known as great songwriters. Billy Sheehan is famous as bass players go but, even so, he's only a bass player, he will not make or break a band. Optimism dropped further when the sample was released and it just sounded like the uninspired parts of Falling Into Infinity. Now two songs have been released and they are utterly average in my opinion, not terrible or unlistenable but nothing remotely special or nothing that hasn't already been done a thousand times, and much better, by other bands. Unless these songs are the worst things on the album (in which case why use them to promote the album) then I cannot see SOA lasting beyond 2 albums at the most and they will be touring small clubs just like AMob, WD etc.
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Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album is being released the same day and I'm much more excited about it than SOA. They (Vuur) promised a prog metal album and the two songs they've released are exactly that: prog metal, and, imo, are much better than Sings of the Time and Coming Home.
Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen and no other big names, but still they managed to create a fresh new sound/approach for prog metal. You don't need an all-star lineup, just good writers and a clear direction for your music.
Maybe Mike or Derek could learn a thing or two from them.
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Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album is being released the same day and I'm much more excited about it than SOA. They (Vuur) promised a prog metal album and the two songs they've released are exactly that: prog metal, and, imo, are much better than Sings of the Time and Coming Home.
Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen and no other big names, but still they managed to create a fresh new sound/approach for prog metal. You don't need an all-star lineup, just good writers and a clear direction for your music.
Maybe Mike or Derek could learn a thing or two from them.
Yeah, for sure, big names don't necessarily make big albums.
B.Lee
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Yeah I'm surprised you're the only one suggesting it was a cost cutting measure. I haven't been keeping up on the topics recently but running a website and employing two different moderators isn't free.
Whatever he was paying them was too much; the inconsistency of their moderating was frankly hilarious.
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Yeah I'm surprised you're the only one suggesting it was a cost cutting measure. I haven't been keeping up on the topics recently but running a website and employing two different moderators isn't free.
Whatever he was paying them was too much; the inconsistency of their moderating was frankly hilarious.
Yes, because running a site is SO easy... ::)
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Damnit! Every time I see SoA, I read it as Sons of Anarchy.
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Damnit! Every time I see SoA, I read it as Sons of Anarchy.
You're not the only one.
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Not saying it's easy, just that a bit of consistency would have been nice. Never knew where you stood with the post-Wey mods.
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Not saying it's easy, just that a bit of consistency would have been nice. Never knew where you stood with the post-Wey mods.
True. But it wasn't that hard to remain unbanned, despite some apparent inconsistency.
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I don't know if MP and DS realize that their core audience is going to be DT fans....
*snip*
First off, great post noxon. I just wanted to grab this first statement though because it kinda took me off guard. How could MP and DS not get this? Two guys who were in the biggest prog-metal band ever getting back together to make - according to their social media activity - music that will position them as the "kings of prog metal". It seems overly obviously the core of their base would be DT fans...
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Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Well, it may be my album of the year simply by default. This year has been absolutely abysmal in terms of new releases for me. Literally nothing else I am remotely interested in.
Actually, hold that thought just a minute...
Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album is being released the same day and I'm much more excited about it than SOA. They (Vuur) promised a prog metal album and the two songs they've released are exactly that: prog metal, and, imo, are much better than Sings of the Time and Coming Home.
Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen and no other big names, but still they managed to create a fresh new sound/approach for prog metal. You don't need an all-star lineup, just good writers and a clear direction for your music.
Hm...just checked out the two songs on YouTube. That's not bad. I may have to pick that one up.
Okay, so I guess I will buy two albums this year. Thanks for the recommendation. :biggrin:
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Not saying it's easy, just that a bit of consistency would have been nice. Never knew where you stood with the post-Wey mods.
OK, I get what you mean. Well, I actually left after the split with DT and Weymolith left. Up to then, I had been a regular there and found the community really cool. Then, it went downhill, not just because of the mods, because of the forumers as well. So I decided to stay on DTF I had joined some time before and have stayed there until now.
B.Lee
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Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Well, it may be my album of the year simply by default. This year has been absolutely abysmal in terms of new releases for me. Literally nothing else I am remotely interested in.
Actually, hold that thought just a minute...
Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album is being released the same day and I'm much more excited about it than SOA. They (Vuur) promised a prog metal album and the two songs they've released are exactly that: prog metal, and, imo, are much better than Sings of the Time and Coming Home.
Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen and no other big names, but still they managed to create a fresh new sound/approach for prog metal. You don't need an all-star lineup, just good writers and a clear direction for your music.
Hm...just checked out the two songs on YouTube. That's not bad. I may have to pick that one up.
Okay, so I guess I will buy two albums this year. Thanks for the recommendation. :biggrin:
I have no idea what you like but would recommend giving Need - Hegaiamas a few listens. It's prog metal that hasn't reinvented the wheel but for some reason still feels fresh and a bit different to me.
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Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Well, it may be my album of the year simply by default. This year has been absolutely abysmal in terms of new releases for me. Literally nothing else I am remotely interested in.
Actually, hold that thought just a minute...
Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album is being released the same day and I'm much more excited about it than SOA. They (Vuur) promised a prog metal album and the two songs they've released are exactly that: prog metal, and, imo, are much better than Sings of the Time and Coming Home.
Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen and no other big names, but still they managed to create a fresh new sound/approach for prog metal. You don't need an all-star lineup, just good writers and a clear direction for your music.
Hm...just checked out the two songs on YouTube. That's not bad. I may have to pick that one up.
Okay, so I guess I will buy two albums this year. Thanks for the recommendation. :biggrin:
Glad to help :lol
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Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Well, it may be my album of the year simply by default. This year has been absolutely abysmal in terms of new releases for me. Literally nothing else I am remotely interested in.
Actually, hold that thought just a minute...
Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album is being released the same day and I'm much more excited about it than SOA. They (Vuur) promised a prog metal album and the two songs they've released are exactly that: prog metal, and, imo, are much better than Sings of the Time and Coming Home.
Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen and no other big names, but still they managed to create a fresh new sound/approach for prog metal. You don't need an all-star lineup, just good writers and a clear direction for your music.
Hm...just checked out the two songs on YouTube. That's not bad. I may have to pick that one up.
Okay, so I guess I will buy two albums this year. Thanks for the recommendation. :biggrin:
Not sure if you are into them or not but for me by far Living Colour's Shade is amazing! Not prog but great solid rock. If you want to do a random sampling I suggest "Always Wrong" and "Two Sides" Also Come On.
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Threshold also released a very solid concept album a few weeks ago :tup
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So I listened to that Derek podcast (or at least, the first 20 minutes)... Nothing about this sounds like something any of them should dedicate to as their 'full time gig.'
Derek seems to have aspirations of playing arenas and selling buku numbers of CDs. Thinks these guys, who are already well known in the music industry, are somehow going to take off just based on their name and one CD. They've apparently set aside all of 2018 for a tour. Okay? And? Mike set aside (x) years for Winery Dogs/Flying Colors, and then was onto something else the next year. Billy Sheehan is 64 years old for crying out loud, does he really think a band with a 64 year old bassist is going to attract a younger crowd (something any band needs if they have dreams of growing)? What are they going to do when the CD moves a few thousand copies and they play clubs that are 'beneath' their expectations? Mike's actions come off looking so defensive that I can't imagine these aren't concerns in the back of his mind. He loves playing with different bands, but without having a solid, super popular home base (like Dream Theater) it seems like it's become a job more than ever, since he *has* to keep trying to make something that knocks it out of the park (both in sales and fan reception).
Add all this stupid drama to it and it's looking like one giant clusterfuck, silly publicity to cushion mediocre hard rock.
Yeah - I just find his whole approach to be off putting. Maybe I'm just not part of the target audience. As a DT fan, you'd think I would be. But maybe they're trying to capture people who miss the days of over the top rock and roll "personalities" but also want great musicianship? Is there a huge group of people like that? Besides Rush, DT is the biggest band I listen to regularly and consider myself a fan of. I like how "normal" and down to earth Rush, DT, etc are (or at least seem to be). They may talk about being proud of or excited about an upcoming album but always in a way that seems humble. The lack of personality Derek talks about is to me just real life personality. I don't need (or want) this forced in your face nonsense. Maybe there are those who do?
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Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album is being released the same day and I'm much more excited about it than SOA. They (Vuur) promised a prog metal album and the two songs they've released are exactly that: prog metal, and, imo, are much better than Sings of the Time and Coming Home.
Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen and no other big names, but still they managed to create a fresh new sound/approach for prog metal. You don't need an all-star lineup, just good writers and a clear direction for your music.
Maybe Mike or Derek could learn a thing or two from them.
Totally didn't realize this albums release was the same day. I pre-ordered a signed copy of the VUUR album not only because the singles were solid, but because I thought they had a good potential being it was mostly the backing band for The Gentle Storm which I really liked. I guess the "kings of prog" have quite the competition on their first day of sales. I have not placed a pre-order for SOA. I'll likely get the album after release and I hear some more.
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Just took another glance at the release date calendar for 2017 to confirm that, indeed, I have not bought a single new release in 2017. Wow. (But I did miss Morsefest 2015 and need to pick that up, so...) But coincidentally, the three albums I may end up buying all have the same upcoming release date: Sons of Apollo (would probably be an automatic buy unless it was clearly bad, but I like what I've heard so far), Vuur (hadn't heard of them until literally about half an hour ago, but I like what I heard), and Trivium (kind of on the fence, but will probably get it). There is a real dearth of good music this year. :(
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Just took another glance at the release date calendar for 2017 to confirm that, indeed, I have not bought a single new release in 2017. Wow. (But I did miss Morsefest 2015 and need to pick that up, so...) But coincidentally, the three albums I may end up buying all have the same upcoming release date: Sons of Apollo (would probably be an automatic buy unless it was clearly bad, but I like what I've heard so far), Vuur (hadn't heard of them until literally about half an hour ago, but I like what I heard), and Trivium (kind of on the fence, but will probably get it). There is a real dearth of good music this year. :(
No Anathema?
No Primus?
No SNOW Live? (I guess that's not a "new" album per se)
Black Country Communion?
GWAR?
Steven Wilson to the bone?
Those are all either purchased or pre-ordered now for my 2017 list. There may be some from earlier in the year I'm forgetting.
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Voyager - Ghost Mile is also a great album.
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Just took another glance at the release date calendar for 2017 to confirm that, indeed, I have not bought a single new release in 2017. Wow. (But I did miss Morsefest 2015 and need to pick that up, so...) But coincidentally, the three albums I may end up buying all have the same upcoming release date: Sons of Apollo (would probably be an automatic buy unless it was clearly bad, but I like what I've heard so far), Vuur (hadn't heard of them until literally about half an hour ago, but I like what I heard), and Trivium (kind of on the fence, but will probably get it). There is a real dearth of good music this year. :(
No Anathema?
No Primus?
No SNOW Live? (I guess that's not a "new" album per se)
Black Country Communion?
GWAR?
Steven Wilson to the bone?
Those are all either purchased or pre-ordered now for my 2017 list. There may be some from earlier in the year I'm forgetting.
Just to add a few good ones
Pain of Salvation
Beatrix Players
Ayreon
Kaipa
Myrkur
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Steven Wilson. Steven Wilson, folks.
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Steven Wilson. Steven Wilson, folks.
Good one indeed.... too long until the show though
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You guys are really making my point about it being a SLOW year for good music. :lol
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Voyager's Ghost Mile should be mandatory for any prog metal fan, that's the best album released this year so far imo
But it is a very slow year indeed!
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I'm surprised MP hasn't thrown in a marriage analogy about all the forum fans he's just cut off.
well the forum was 18 years old after all.
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I just listened to the DS podcast. Yeah, he's buttering it up sooooo much, even the radio host was like "hmm ... yeah, sounds great."
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I have no issues with musicians buttering up their latest releases. I do wonder if they truly believe it, but it doesn't even matter. It's their latest, they are going to be proud of it and are going to do what they can to promote it. It would be foolish to say anything else before the release.
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Voyager's Ghost Mile should be mandatory for any prog metal fan, that's the best album released this year so far imo
But it is a very slow year indeed!
Slow...... not for Big Big Train at least who have released 2 albums 😁
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I have no issues with musicians buttering up their latest releases. I do wonder if they truly believe it, but it doesn't even matter. It's their latest, they are going to be proud of it and are going to do what they can to promote it. It would be foolish to say anything else before the release.
Normally I'd completely agree with you, but the way Derek's doing it is just taking it way too far to an extreme in my opinion.
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Leprous - Malina is a must listen as well. I get that it might not be heavy enough for some compared to their previous material, but it's a great album.
I don't know how well known Need is so I'll leave this here - give it a listen or two, and ignore the video if you don't like that style.
https://youtu.be/NEt3O3vMogI
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Leprous - Malina is a must listen as well. I get that it might not be heavy enough for some compared to their previous material, but it's a great album.
I don't know how well known Need is so I'll leave this here - give it a listen or two, and ignore the video if you don't like that style.
https://youtu.be/NEt3O3vMogI
Never heard of them before, but that was really good.
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I was looking at a tweet MP
How are we not even pictured on this front page?? Show them that Sons Of Apollo is the most anticipated release... https://fb.me/6iVZBzjD6
It's kind of sad. I think they think they are way bigger than they are. It's like a Spinal Tap moment almost, between Derek's bravado, MP being oblivious and the rest of the guys who although talented are being touted as a "super group"
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I was looking at a tweet MP
How are we not even pictured on this front page?? Show them that Sons Of Apollo is the most anticipated release... https://fb.me/6iVZBzjD6
It's kind of sad. I think they think they are way bigger than they are. It's like a Spinal Tap moment almost, between Derek's bravado, MP being oblivious and the rest of the guys who although talented are being touted as a "super group"
I saw that, then voted for GWAR.
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I was looking at a tweet MP
How are we not even pictured on this front page?? Show them that Sons Of Apollo is the most anticipated release... https://fb.me/6iVZBzjD6
It's kind of sad. I think they think they are way bigger than they are. It's like a Spinal Tap moment almost, between Derek's bravado, MP being oblivious and the rest of the guys who although talented are being touted as a "super group"
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Leprous - Malina is a must listen as well. I get that it might not be heavy enough for some compared to their previous material, but it's a great album.
I don't know how well known Need is so I'll leave this here - give it a listen or two, and ignore the video if you don't like that style.
https://youtu.be/NEt3O3vMogI
Never heard of them before, but that was really good.
Glad you liked it! I think the whole album is just as good.
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I was looking at a tweet MP
How are we not even pictured on this front page?? Show them that Sons Of Apollo is the most anticipated release... https://fb.me/6iVZBzjD6
It's kind of sad. I think they think they are way bigger than they are. It's like a Spinal Tap moment almost, between Derek's bravado, MP being oblivious and the rest of the guys who although talented are being touted as a "super group"
Heck, I am anticipating Jeff Scott Soto's Retribution album in November much more than SoA.
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Just dipping my toes in the water here. I'm from both the old DT.net board and the MP board.
On Sunday, I started typing something in the SOA thread over there to warn people the their behavior could end up with MP pulling the plug, then scrapped it (common practice for me). That board had been his 3rd, 4th or 5th place to actually post news regarding himself. We had become an afterthought really. In some cases, we never got some updates.
Guess my gut feeling came true. Honestly, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner than it did. It had become a ghost town with mostly us hardcore folks remaining.
On topic, I liked the 2 songs so far. If I cared about how certain musicians behaved or carried themselves, my collection would be much smaller. Derek is pushing buttons, I get it. Probably not the right time. Wait until after the album is out. Whatever, it's the music I care about.
I guess this is my new home now. Try to cut me some slack while I settle in.
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Welcome to your new home Professor....
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I think the best thing coming out of MP shutting down his forum is that many users from there will find a new home here and will realize that all the crap MP said about DTF is not true at all.
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For me personally I guess the best thing is that I don't have to leave by myself....
Quite a few times that I have been about to leave because of stiffled discussions and disappearing threads for instance.
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I think the best thing coming out of MP shutting down his forum is that many users from there will find a new home here and will realize that all the crap MP said about DTF is not true at all.
Or they will play the MP fanboys to the extreme and this place will become Hell for us who are not, who knows? Yeah, I know, I'm on the pessimistic side of things.
B.Lee
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For me personally I guess the best thing is that I don't have to leave by myself....
Quite a few times that I have been about to leave because of stiffled discussions and disappearing threads for instance.
That sucks.
I think the best thing coming out of MP shutting down his forum is that many users from there will find a new home here and will realize that all the crap MP said about DTF is not true at all.
Or they will play the MP fanboys to the extreme and this place will become Hell for us who are not, who knows? Yeah, I know, I'm on the pessimistic side of things.
B.Lee
Don't think so. All of them are on the MP Facebook group, I guess.
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I think the best thing coming out of MP shutting down his forum is that many users from there will find a new home here and will realize that all the crap MP said about DTF is not true at all.
Or they will play the MP fanboys to the extreme and this place will become Hell for us who are not, who knows? Yeah, I know, I'm on the pessimistic side of things.
B.Lee
Can you be so sure? MP won't be watching, so they won't feel the need to suck up to him here.
I'm just kidding, MP reads this thread daily.
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I think the best thing coming out of MP shutting down his forum is that many users from there will find a new home here and will realize that all the crap MP said about DTF is not true at all.
Agreed. It was unfair that he went after this board and at the end of the day only this board remains. Forum karma. I think people coming here will realize that this a great place.
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I was looking at a tweet MP
How are we not even pictured on this front page?? Show them that Sons Of Apollo is the most anticipated release... https://fb.me/6iVZBzjD6
It's kind of sad. I think they think they are way bigger than they are. It's like a Spinal Tap moment almost, between Derek's bravado, MP being oblivious and the rest of the guys who although talented are being touted as a "super group"
I saw that, then voted for GWAR.
I voted for Marilyn Manson, and I'm grateful MP tweeted that because I had no idea Manson had a new album coming out.
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Even on Reddit there's like, no discussion of this, no hype at all.
Fucking schadenfreude, man.
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Voted for Ne Obliviscaris in that loudwire poll. Not even a huge fan of the band, but it was an easy decision, really.
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Just dipping my toes in the water here. I'm from both the old DT.net board and the MP board.
On Sunday, I started typing something in the SOA thread over there to warn people the their behavior could end up with MP pulling the plug, then scrapped it (common practice for me). That board had been his 3rd, 4th or 5th place to actually post news regarding himself. We had become an afterthought really. In some cases, we never got some updates.
Guess my gut feeling came true. Honestly, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner than it did. It had become a ghost town with mostly us hardcore folks remaining.
On topic, I liked the 2 songs so far. If I cared about how certain musicians behaved or carried themselves, my collection would be much smaller. Derek is pushing buttons, I get it. Probably not the right time. Wait until after the album is out. Whatever, it's the music I care about.
I guess this is my new home now. Try to cut me some slack while I settle in.
Welcome buddy! Maybe we should make a thread in the General Forum for the MP Forum refugees to introduce themselves? The DTF old guard can provide the welcoming tea and cakes.
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Mine's a black coffee, cheers
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I'm another who migrated over from MP.com. I've been a member here too for a couple of years but rarely post. Like most, I'm more of a lurker than a poster but this seems like a great place. Cheers !
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Correct if I'm wrong, but I think a majority of folks from MP.com are also members here already (although some may not have been very active here). I don't think there is a lot of mystery about this place from the general population of MP.com.
Oh, and FlamTap, is that Ricky from Better Off Dead in your avatar? Love it!
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Welcome to you all, refugees from MP.com! This is indeed a nice place, peopled with nice fellas! And what is even nicer, MP can't shut it down! :biggrin:
B.Lee
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Correct if I'm wrong, but I think a majority of folks from MP.com are also members here already (although some may not have been very active here). I don't think there is a lot of mystery about this place from the general population of MP.com.
Oh, and FlamTap, is that Ricky from Better Off Dead in your avatar? Love it!
Yes. I am as well. I posted under bill1971 over there.
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Leprous - Malina is a must listen as well. I get that it might not be heavy enough for some compared to their previous material, but it's a great album.
I don't know how well known Need is so I'll leave this here - give it a listen or two, and ignore the video if you don't like that style.
https://youtu.be/NEt3O3vMogI
Never heard of them before, but that was really good.
Umm, yeah not to get off topic but that was awesome. Checking these guys out on Spotify now.
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So I was looking at Mike's Facebook on that post about SoA not being on the front page of that site -- and some comments I've seen that were like "Eh, good tunes, but I voted for (x)" or similarly, not praising the music, have been deleted.
I said I voted for Ne Obliviscaris, and now my comment is removed, and I think he blocked me from even commenting on the page now (which I almost never do anyway). Good lord, Mike.
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Correct if I'm wrong, but I think a majority of folks from MP.com are also members here already (although some may not have been very active here). I don't think there is a lot of mystery about this place from the general population of MP.com.
Oh, and FlamTap, is that Ricky from Better Off Dead in your avatar? Love it!
Lol, Flam Tap wins for best avatar!!
Remember in the movie when Ricky lost his balloon after the school dance and went running after it with a small jump trying to get it? Priceless! :rollin
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"Hugo Adrian Mg I'm sorry but you have to face it, this is by far the worst band you've ever been in"
Soon to be deleted.
Personally, what would hurt my ego more than reading something like that about my new band of session players is the realization that my psyche is so fragile that I felt compelled to delete it.
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So I wrote something like:
Voted but not for SoA. Based on the two songs released I don't think this will be my cup of tea.
Will listen to the album on Spotify and hope the other songs resonate better with me.
The post has now been deleted.... was that so offensive to Mike that he had to delete it??????
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Kind of sinking in a little more today that the place I visited multiple times a day and met hundreds of awesome people is GONE.
I lurked there for probably 3 years before joining to post a bucket list "Thanks" to MP and fell in love with it and stayed for all these
years. I'll miss it for sure but from every angle it wasn't necessary any longer. All the other social sites reach more people and it
was unnecessary overhead that served no purpose. So a final farewell to MP.COM from someone who spent a bunch of time there over
the last 14 or 15 years.
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Correct if I'm wrong, but I think a majority of folks from MP.com are also members here already (although some may not have been very active here). I don't think there is a lot of mystery about this place from the general population of MP.com.
Oh, and FlamTap, is that Ricky from Better Off Dead in your avatar? Love it!
I have always been aware of this place but stayed away. I had a bad experience on the old DT.net board where I got into it with some dude over baseball and it tainted my opinion of this place, wrongfully so I hope. It had something to with Red Sox and Yankees and him going at me non-stop about defending any bad behavior my team did (note, I'm from Chicago and a life long Cubs fan, could care less about Red Sox/Yankees). That obviously wasn't the only reason. I was growing tired of the behavior of many over there. I just abandoned it entirely and stayed at MP's.
I actually do recognize some names here from my DT.net days. My handle has always been the same across all 3, although I'm no forum star. More lurker and wise-ass comment maker.
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Correct if I'm wrong, but I think a majority of folks from MP.com are also members here already (although some may not have been very active here). I don't think there is a lot of mystery about this place from the general population of MP.com.
Only the management. :lol
I think you're probably correct, but aside from some noob MP refugees, there will also be some with different nics. I certainly fit into that category (damn, I might need to actually change my name to El Jesus now), and there are one or two folk that have caught me by surprise posting under different names.
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Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.
B.Lee
Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album is being released the same day and I'm much more excited about it than SOA. They (Vuur) promised a prog metal album and the two songs they've released are exactly that: prog metal, and, imo, are much better than Sings of the Time and Coming Home.
Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen and no other big names, but still they managed to create a fresh new sound/approach for prog metal. You don't need an all-star lineup, just good writers and a clear direction for your music.
Maybe Mike or Derek could learn a thing or two from them.
+1
Currently, there isn't better example out there...
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I voted for SoA, and I'm genuinely interested and excited about this project. But Mike's attitude just keeps getting stronger and stranger. I genuinely want to believe that he's having fun with all his projects, and it appears so. But his attitude towards those who are not on board with EVERYTHING he releases is what gets most of us. I get that he wanted to explore different genres, but why not keep the focus on a handful of projects and keep them more or less constant? It feels like he's always latching onto his next project/band to be his full time thing, but never gives time for them to grow. If I were Mike right now I'd be focusing on the third albums from FC and TWD. In the past, bands took two or three albums to take off - look at DT, for example! Now, it's either topping the charts or scrapping the plans and moving on to the next best thing...
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So I wrote something like:
Voted but not for SoA. Based on the two songs released I don't think this will be my cup of tea.
Will listen to the album on Spotify and hope the other songs resonate better with me.
The post has now been deleted.... was that so offensive to Mike that he had to delete it??????
Wow, that's pretty ridiculous that they're deleting posts saying they voted for someone else. I guess you're a troll if you like other bands not named Sons of Apollo.
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So I wrote something like:
Voted but not for SoA. Based on the two songs released I don't think this will be my cup of tea.
Will listen to the album on Spotify and hope the other songs resonate better with me.
The post has now been deleted.... was that so offensive to Mike that he had to delete it??????
Wow, that's pretty ridiculous that they're deleting posts saying they voted for someone else. I guess you're a troll if you like other bands not named Sons of Apollo.
At least I am not blocked..... was about to write something about disappering posts but thought better of it and added:
Would be a miracle if a new band, even with the collective talent in SoA, was more anticipated than big established groups.
We'll see if that sticks :-)
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Ah, so that's who you are :)
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Ah, so that's who you are :)
Should be easy to spot with the same profile image...
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Even on Reddit there's like, no discussion of this, no hype at all.
Fucking schadenfreude, man.
looks like Mike just killed the biggest hype this band actually had :facepalm:
(btw, also migrated mild poster/lurker (LIVESTRONG) from mp.com)
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I know I'm late on this, but a couple of things:
I'm a little surprised that MP shut down the MP.com forum simply because he has always been forward about that being his outlet to the fans. I know other outlets exist now, but that place was kinda sacred in a way. On the other hand it was running towards that path I suppose.
While I think Mike is correct in that forums are a little dated, I will say this. Yes, there are absolutely better places for promotion, but not for discussion. FB groups get to a certain size and just become a giant clusterfuck, frankly. Message boards still serve a good purpose, but in tying in with my next point, Portnoy is clearly looking for promotion and not discussion.
It's frankly quite appalling the level of censorship around Mike at this point. Let me say he is completely within his rights to do these things on his pages/groups/profiles/whatever. That said just because he can do it doesn't mean it should. Every time someone posts something neutral or not immediately positive you delete it, mute the person, ban someone, etc, it just sends a message, and it has to be turning people off. Is Portnoy paranoid, does he really think everyone is out to get him? Is he really in need of the safe space for himself? I don't know exactly what the cause, but it just doesn't look good.
Through all this crap I'm *still* looking forward to the music from Sons of Apollo. I just wish it didn't come with quite so much baggage.
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Good to see that a lot of people have migrated from MP.com to DTF!
Not to advertise, but this is truly a great forum. I've been a semi regular poster since something like 2011. Don't at all regret my time in here. A lot of great discussions about music in general, movies and everything in between. Dream Theater discussions are only a small part.
You guys should stick around!
BTW i'm still going to give the SoA album a fair chance, since i've liked the two songs released so far!
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So I was looking at Mike's Facebook on that post about SoA not being on the front page of that site -- and some comments I've seen that were like "Eh, good tunes, but I voted for (x)" or similarly, not praising the music, have been deleted.
I said I voted for Ne Obliviscaris, and now my comment is removed, and I think he blocked me from even commenting on the page now (which I almost never do anyway). Good lord, Mike.
...*sigh*...
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So I wrote something like:
Voted but not for SoA. Based on the two songs released I don't think this will be my cup of tea.
Will listen to the album on Spotify and hope the other songs resonate better with me.
The post has now been deleted.... was that so offensive to Mike that he had to delete it??????
:o This is ridiculous, how We can not be permitted to share our opinions? It's nothing offensive of course, it's normal human thing to share opinions and like sth or not. Just don't get it, and that whole thing makes me sick so much, that I'm starting to have doubts about buying SoA album.... sick....
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I dont even know why you guys bother. While I don't think the examples here are "bad" by any means, it almost comes off as you guys trolling him given we all know he isn't going to accept anything that isn't positive. It is what it is, if you guys want to keep doing that, so be it, but I personally am starting to see it as people trolling him because they know it makes him mad.
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I dont even know why you guys bother. While I don't think the examples here are "bad" by any means, it almost comes off as you guys trolling him given we all know he isn't going to accept anything that isn't positive. It is what it is, if you guys want to keep doing that, so be it, but I personally am starting to see it as people trolling him because they know it makes him mad.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!
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I dont even know why you guys bother. While I don't think the examples here are "bad" by any means, it almost comes off as you guys trolling him given we all know he isn't going to accept anything that isn't positive. It is what it is, if you guys want to keep doing that, so be it, but I personally am starting to see it as people trolling him because they know it makes him mad.
Would you say people are critical of hypersensitive validation-seeking political leaders for the same reason? To troll them? Maybe people shouldn't do anything but buy the artist's record if they like it or pass on it if they don't, or vote for whoever they want, but be passive for the entire term should someone else win.
If Mike gets special treatment in a good way or a bad way--people giving him less than honest feedback in order to stroke his ego or not hurt his feelings, or people giving him honest feedback, possibly in a harsher manner than would be given to a more decent individual, with the knowledge that it will damage his ego--he has brought such treatment on himself through his actions over the years. He gets it both ways because that is the way people react to his polarizing style.
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I've heard both songs, they're good but i'm not hearing anything special, I don't remeber anything about them, just the keyboard intro of "Coming home", which I think it's good. I guess I will stream the album once it's out and then I'll decide.
I was also in MP forum since 2009 until Wey left, then I just went there once in a while but everytime there were less and less new threads and discussion. I never posted much, i was more of a lurker (the same as here, I've been here since 2011), but it was weird to see MPF being closed, although i think it wasn't that much of a surprise.
I'm realizing I'm less of a fan of MP than I was before, maybe it's because of his recent online activity, maybe it's because of his same bag of tricks or maybe it's because of the latter projects, in general, I have not liked them much (except NMB, the two albums have been awesome!). I saw MP's TSF in Mexico last week and I feel like I closed a cycle, now I don't feel the need to see MP live anymore and that's sad in a way for me. I saw him with DT, NMB and now SF, and i think i'm done about him, I prefer to see other bands and musicians, the only exception would be NMB. On the other hand I can see myself seeing DT as many times as I can (I hope that doesn't change!).
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I agree with cramx3. While a forum like MP's was a perfectly natural way of discussing, positive AND negative, opinions of his projects, doing the same on Facebook is obvious trolling.
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That's the difference, or one of them anyway. Forums are for discussion, Facebook is for promotion.
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I dont even know why you guys bother. While I don't think the examples here are "bad" by any means, it almost comes off as you guys trolling him given we all know he isn't going to accept anything that isn't positive. It is what it is, if you guys want to keep doing that, so be it, but I personally am starting to see it as people trolling him because they know it makes him mad.
Would you say people are critical of hypersensitive validation-seeking political leaders for the same reason? To troll them? Maybe people shouldn't do anything but buy the artist's record if they like it or pass on it if they don't, or vote for whoever they want, but be passive for the entire term should someone else win.
If Mike gets special treatment in a good way or a bad way--people giving him less than honest feedback in order to stroke his ego or not hurt his feelings, or people giving him honest feedback, possibly in a harsher manner than would be given to a more decent individual, with the knowledge that it will damage his ego--he has brought such treatment on himself through his actions over the years. He gets it both ways because that is the way people react to his polarizing style.
Of course I would say that. Maybe not literally "troll" (since many national politicians just don't have the personal interaction) but it's certainly, without question, a way for the "troll" to help themselves feel superior. So much of non-professional political commentary is stuck at the level of "Is there a D or an R after their name?" Politics is slightly different, though, in that it's not completely subjective and not completely a matter of personal taste ("I like that song!")
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I agree with cramx3. While a forum like MP's was a perfectly natural way of discussing, positive AND negative, opinions of his projects, doing the same on Facebook is obvious trolling.
Yup, Time and place for everything. Sounds like the bans were justified in that case.
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I dont even know why you guys bother. While I don't think the examples here are "bad" by any means, it almost comes off as you guys trolling him given we all know he isn't going to accept anything that isn't positive. It is what it is, if you guys want to keep doing that, so be it, but I personally am starting to see it as people trolling him because they know it makes him mad.
Would you say people are critical of hypersensitive validation-seeking political leaders for the same reason? To troll them? Maybe people shouldn't do anything but buy the artist's record if they like it or pass on it if they don't, or vote for whoever they want, but be passive for the entire term should someone else win.
If Mike gets special treatment in a good way or a bad way--people giving him less than honest feedback in order to stroke his ego or not hurt his feelings, or people giving him honest feedback, possibly in a harsher manner than would be given to a more decent individual, with the knowledge that it will damage his ego--he has brought such treatment on himself through his actions over the years. He gets it both ways because that is the way people react to his polarizing style.
Of course I would say that. Maybe not literally "troll" (since many national politicians just don't have the personal interaction) but it's certainly, without question, a way for the "troll" to help themselves feel superior. So much of non-professional political commentary is stuck at the level of "Is there a D or an R after their name?" Politics is slightly different, though, in that it's not completely subjective and not completely a matter of personal taste ("I like that song!")
I would answer "yes" as well to that question
I agree with cramx3. While a forum like MP's was a perfectly natural way of discussing, positive AND negative, opinions of his projects, doing the same on Facebook is obvious trolling.
Yup, Time and place for everything. Sounds like the bans were justified in that case.
I'm not saying the bans are justified necessarily. I guess one could say that, if you are running the show, you get to decide what is justified. But to me, it is about "a time and place for everything" and there's plenty of public spots to display negative criticism of MP, but on his facebook after he closed his forum, is likely not the best spot. That just feels a bit more personal to me and since we KNOW how he will react, continuing to do so isn't helping anyone. There is this thread for example to share your negative criticisms (assuming you are respectful, and the examples I am referring to, have been respectful).
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I would say here is actually the best place to discuss his output. There's a good collection of people who like his stuff, and people who don't care for it.
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I agree with cramx3. While a forum like MP's was a perfectly natural way of discussing, positive AND negative, opinions of his projects, doing the same on Facebook is obvious trolling.
I think MP did the right thing if he doesn't want any negative feedback he should not be reading his website. Usually the fans just accept the negativity from him but then Derek added on attacking a group we all have known and loved then MP attacks a forum that many of us know and love and actually fought back this time. He is in a way kind of like a social media bully, can dish it out but can't take it.
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I agree with cramx3. While a forum like MP's was a perfectly natural way of discussing, positive AND negative, opinions of his projects, doing the same on Facebook is obvious trolling.
Yup, Time and place for everything. Sounds like the bans were justified in that case.
I came to post the same idea, but you too beat me to it.
The reason I'm not on this thread is because I don't quite enjoy that style. I call it radio rock. But then it they are doing that then I hope the singles are just that the radio freindly single. The others could be a bit different, I'm guessing not by much though.
I might buy it, but will be determined if I like the other songs. Billy's bass tone doesn't help much at all. Thats my flaw with this band.
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MP it’s not the one deleting posts at MP forum over FB as he is just another member there and have not admins power per se
These guys are te admins there:
(https://image.ibb.co/bwq6pQ/F07_A0708_F822_4_C20_8429_CE98_C3_E047_DF.png) (https://ibb.co/hUMCUQ)
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Mini, that's true, but the blockings happened on his actual fan page on Facebook (the one with 1.3 million likes). Although I am surprised he isn't an admin on that
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Mini, before I forget:
Off topic, but I was curious, why did you have to remove your signature on the other forum?
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Mini, that's true, but the blockings happened on his actual fan page on Facebook (the one with 1.3 million likes). Although I am surprised he isn't an admin on that
My bad, I thought it was on his forum FB page
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Mini, before I forget:
Off topic, but I was curious, why did you have to remove your signature on the other forum?
Nippet sent me a PM and told me to take it down immediately. Didn’t get me and explanation, I didn’t ask for one to be honest
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I wouldn't call the comments on MP's Facebook page trolling. It wouldn't surprise me if people were just trying to see what kind of discussion is and is not welcome. The forum was just shut down, supposedly because of either social media or because forum members were attacking each other. If that was really true, a respectful "these two songs didn't do much for me but I'm hoping to like the rest when I stream it" should be Ok, and not blocked or deleted.
However, now that those comments have been deleted, I'd say you have your answer, and if you continue to try to post the same things, it could maybe then be considered trolling.
I would agree with Rumborak that this thread will be a lot better for discussion.
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I would agree with Rumborak that this thread will be a lot better for discussion.
Absolutely NOT! Any attempt to discuss anything will be met with swift retribution! :bosk1:
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This thread is to be used solely for marriage analogies.
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Right. I mean, imagine you are with your wife for 25 years. And then, out of the blue, she closes her forum and makes you talk to her only on Facebook. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IF I WALKED AWAY?! :marriageanalogy:
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It's more like Mike was on The Shield and left for The Real Housewives of New York.
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I wouldn't call the comments on MP's Facebook page trolling. It wouldn't surprise me if people were just trying to see what kind of discussion is and is not welcome.
Not to mention that MP's officially stated reason for closing the Forum was, "In this age of interactive social media outlets, there are plenty of other platforms for us to all gather info and have discussions"
I'm not sure how he defines "have discussions", but deleting completely inoffensive comments from the 'social media outlets' he's told his fans to now use is a pretty broad interpretation.
Whatever, it's his business, if he wants nothing but absolute and total praise at all times then let him engineer that, but I still think he's handled this whole thing really badly. That's just my perception of events though, I'm not him and I don't know what it's like to be in his position.
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Right. I mean, imagine you are with your wife for 25 years. And then, out of the blue, she closes her forum and makes you talk to her only on Facebook. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IF I WALKED AWAY?! :marriageanalogy:
..and you tell her you want a break from Facebook so you can give Myspace a spin.
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Well, sure. I just got lost midway through the analogy. But that fits.
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Well, sure. I just got lost midway through the analogy. But that fits.
Dreaming at work again staring at Teh River?
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Well, sure. I just got lost midway through the analogy. But that fits.
Dreaming at work again staring at Teh River?
I can't see teh river at my new job. :(
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One of the odd outcomes of this debacle is that I now know that Planet X was so great mostly because of Donati. Too lazy to find it, but didn't somebody post that DS said he didn't enjoy playing the Planet X tunes?
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I dont even know why you guys bother. While I don't think the examples here are "bad" by any means, it almost comes off as you guys trolling him given we all know he isn't going to accept anything that isn't positive. It is what it is, if you guys want to keep doing that, so be it, but I personally am starting to see it as people trolling him because they know it makes him mad.
Would you say people are critical of hypersensitive validation-seeking political leaders for the same reason? To troll them? Maybe people shouldn't do anything but buy the artist's record if they like it or pass on it if they don't, or vote for whoever they want, but be passive for the entire term should someone else win.
If Mike gets special treatment in a good way or a bad way--people giving him less than honest feedback in order to stroke his ego or not hurt his feelings, or people giving him honest feedback, possibly in a harsher manner than would be given to a more decent individual, with the knowledge that it will damage his ego--he has brought such treatment on himself through his actions over the years. He gets it both ways because that is the way people react to his polarizing style.
Of course I would say that. Maybe not literally "troll" (since many national politicians just don't have the personal interaction) but it's certainly, without question, a way for the "troll" to help themselves feel superior. So much of non-professional political commentary is stuck at the level of "Is there a D or an R after their name?" Politics is slightly different, though, in that it's not completely subjective and not completely a matter of personal taste ("I like that song!")
I would answer "yes" as well to that question
You both might want to read the sentence that follows the one you've chosen to bold from my original post and respond to the first in context. If that isn't too taxing, you can even read the brief paragraph which follows it. As it is, it appears you're playing dumb.
Trolling may be a primary motivator for some, but there are valid reasons to criticize public figures or their work, and to dismiss critics as trolls and haters, or as fascist politicians say, "paid protestors", is gross. It results in ass-kissers who will coddle them and critics who will criticize them more brutally than perhaps they objectively deserve.
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From a recent James Labrie article. Maybe this will be helpful to Sons of Apollo.
As always, before we say our farewell’s, James humbly shares his best advice for aspiring progressive metal bands,
“Stick to your guns man, I mean, if you really believe what you are doing is identifiable, it’s unique, you’re creating something that sets you apart. You’re creating something that’s exciting and that you feel is relevant to what it is that you’re representing then you have to go for it. And you have to be in it all. 100% committed in every aspect of what it takes, to make it stick. To make it happen. Be united. Be cognizant of your bandmates and appreciative of your bandmates so that you can all be there for one another, making it the absolute best it can be.”
https://overdrive-mag.com/2017/09/17/listen-interview-dream-theaters-james-labrie/
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I dont even know why you guys bother. While I don't think the examples here are "bad" by any means, it almost comes off as you guys trolling him given we all know he isn't going to accept anything that isn't positive. It is what it is, if you guys want to keep doing that, so be it, but I personally am starting to see it as people trolling him because they know it makes him mad.
Would you say people are critical of hypersensitive validation-seeking political leaders for the same reason? To troll them? Maybe people shouldn't do anything but buy the artist's record if they like it or pass on it if they don't, or vote for whoever they want, but be passive for the entire term should someone else win.
If Mike gets special treatment in a good way or a bad way--people giving him less than honest feedback in order to stroke his ego or not hurt his feelings, or people giving him honest feedback, possibly in a harsher manner than would be given to a more decent individual, with the knowledge that it will damage his ego--he has brought such treatment on himself through his actions over the years. He gets it both ways because that is the way people react to his polarizing style.
Of course I would say that. Maybe not literally "troll" (since many national politicians just don't have the personal interaction) but it's certainly, without question, a way for the "troll" to help themselves feel superior. So much of non-professional political commentary is stuck at the level of "Is there a D or an R after their name?" Politics is slightly different, though, in that it's not completely subjective and not completely a matter of personal taste ("I like that song!")
I would answer "yes" as well to that question
You both might want to read the sentence that follows the one you've chosen to bold from my original post and respond to the first in context. If that isn't too taxing, you can even read the brief paragraph which follows it. As it is, it appears you're playing dumb.
Trolling may be a primary motivator for some, but there are valid reasons to criticize public figures or their work, and to dismiss critics as trolls and haters, or as fascist politicians say, "paid protestors", is gross. It results in ass-kissers who will coddle them and critics who will criticize them more brutally than perhaps they objectively deserve.
As I already said (in a separate post) there is a time and place. Valid criticism is fine, but when someone makes it clear they don't want it in their space (whether it be facebook or their forum) then continuing to do so is not being productive (and hence feels like trolling). Also, comparing this to a politician is a bit of a reach.
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One of the odd outcomes of this debacle is that I now know that Planet X was so great mostly because of Donati. Too lazy to find it, but didn't somebody post that DS said he didn't enjoy playing the Planet X tunes?
Yeah, he said something like that on a recent interview.
If you listen to Virgil’s “In This Life” album, you’ll hear a lot of similarities with Planet X, because he’s the main writer for both.
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Well, sure. I just got lost midway through the analogy. But that fits.
Dreaming at work again staring at Teh River?
I can't see teh river at my new job. :(
My apology. That stinks.
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As it is, it appears you're playing dumb.
And as it is, you've already been warned about baiting others in this thread. Knock it off.
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...and now its hard to find any Planet X albums. I kind of want to give them a spin to see what they're all about.
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Yeah, cram never plays the dumb game. Get to learn us. Besides opinions. AMIRITE?!
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Well, sure. I just got lost midway through the analogy. But that fits.
Dreaming at work again staring at Teh River?
I can't see teh river at my new job. :(
My apology. That stinks.
Well, I have a great view of the building across the alley.
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One of the odd outcomes of this debacle is that I now know that Planet X was so great mostly because of Donati. Too lazy to find it, but didn't somebody post that DS said he didn't enjoy playing the Planet X tunes?
Yeah, he said something like that on a recent interview.
If you listen to Virgil’s “In This Life” album, you’ll hear a lot of similarities with Planet X, because he’s the main writer for both.
If that's true, then we have more evidence of the fact that DS and MP are great at putting the finishing touches and arranging but need a good songwriter (like Neal Morse and Petrucci).
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I don't think the problem is that he's unwilling to accept negativity on his own forum, or, as it now appears, his facebook page. The problem is that he's incapable of distinguishing between good and bad criticism, and even between abject hatred and general indifference. I'd be fine with him rage-killing his own forum, or having his facebook populated only with asskissers, if he only understood the difference between a "hater" and somebody that just prefers something else.
I really like some of his projects. Some of them hold no appeal whatsoever to me. Expressing that point would probably just piss the guy off and that's a shame.
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Through all this crap I'm *still* looking forward to the music from Sons of Apollo. I just wish it didn't come with quite so much baggage.
Along these lines, this reinforces what I said about Dream Theater post-2010; it became fun to be a fan of the band again! In the mid to late 00s, Portnoy's presence and personality became so overbearing, whether it was in interviews or a making of DVD, that it sucked a lot of the fun out of being a fan, at least for me. Once he was gone, it was fun to be a fan again.
This "baggage" now seems to be sucking a lot of the fun out of it for some who were previously looking forward to this Sons of Appalling CD.
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Through all this crap I'm *still* looking forward to the music from Sons of Apollo. I just wish it didn't come with quite so much baggage.
Along these lines, this reinforces what I said about Dream Theater post-2010; it became fun to be a fan of the band again! In the mid to late 00s, Portnoy's presence and personality became so overbearing, whether it was in interviews or a making of DVD, that it sucked a lot of the fun out of being a fan, at least for me. Once he was gone, it was fun to be a fan again.
This "baggage" now seems to be sucking a lot of the fun out of it for some who were previously looking forward to this Sons of Appalling CD.
That is how I felt. I really liked MP I loved his playing, loved his passion and his love for the fans, then slowly he started to become overbearing. His vocals were becoming more prominent, his drumming started to feel stale. When he quit, to be honest I was thinking I would have no interest in DT anymore because I really thought he was DT despiteof what I thought of what he was becoming. Once ADTOE came out and I saw them live I started thinking, wow I actually like DT better now. I still feel that way.
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The last two posts are so spot on. And I count myself as someone who has been "missing" MP's DT presence over the last couple years. But his behavior recently has reminded me why I was actually originally relieved to see him bow out of DT.
Unfortunately if the new Sons of Anarchy album is anything like the first two singles, I think the most noteworthy thing people will remember about the album is it's the one that made MP shut his forum down.
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I used to think Kevin Moore was "the problem" for not wanting anything to do with DT since he left but seeing what's happened since MP left is making me re-think a lot of things from the past.
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Unfortunately if the new Sons of Anarchy album is anything like the first two singles, I think the most noteworthy thing people will remember about the album is it's the one that made MP shut his forum down.
Now that's what I call a legacy!
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I used to think Kevin Moore was "the problem" for not wanting anything to do with DT since he left but seeing what's happened since MP left is making me re-think a lot of things from the past.
This is something I have been trying not to say for a long time.
EDIT - I should say. I still think MP is an amazing person. But I can see how he would be a personality conflict with some who might be more subdued and methodical. (not all....some) Sometimes the "apples and oranges" that make good musical chemistry are also the very same things that create personal tensions that are difficult to overcome.
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Unfortunately if the new Sons of Anarchy album is anything like the first two singles, I think the most noteworthy thing people will remember about the album is it's the one that made MP shut his forum down.
Now that's what I call a legacy!
I don't think that will really be the case. :) I realize the initial post is at least partly in jest, but to be serious... Mike reaches a pretty wide audience and most are probably unaware of his forum. He's picked up fans beyond the prog world with Avenged, Twisted Sister, and on a smaller scale, The Winery Dogs. Between those fans and his prog fans who like the two SoA songs, he'll find an audience. I just highly doubt that it will be what DT fans have been waiting for since he left.
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First of all, whoever coined the term: "Dad Rock" I salute you.
Second of all, I rather like Coming Home for what it is, but Jeff, buddy, just sing, stop screaming.
Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album.....Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen
Hold the phone... there is a new band/album with Anneke vanLongname?!?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz_OcO7kFyE
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First of all, whoever coined the term: "Dad Rock" I salute you.
Second of all, I rather like Coming Home for what it is, but Jeff, buddy, just sing, stop screaming.
Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album.....Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen
Hold the phone... there is a new band/album with Anneke vanLongname?!?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz_OcO7kFyE
Why yes there is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAwDw5zXtLI
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Given the VUUR and SOA discussion, I just gave both bands some listens on what they've released on youtube and noticed some things:
Both are on InsideOut Records and both have one full music video and one other full track on youtube.
Both of their debut albums release on the same day
Both of their bands feature a known name in the band (Anneke and well, all of SOA)
Some comparisons from youtube:
VUUR - Days Go By (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3rT-X_zgOg) views: 202,313 likes: 3k released Jun 2nd
VUUR - My Champion - Berlin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAwDw5zXtLI) views: 71,541 likes: 2k released Sep 8th
Sons of Apollo - Signs of the Time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLVWkqnN3Ck) views: 225,000 likes: 3k released Aug 11th
Sons of Apollo - Coming Home (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1N8kVYfkE) views: 72,025 likes 1k released Sep 15th
Crazy how both bands are in the same boat
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The news got to BlabberMouth
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-shuts-down-his-official-forum-after-18-years-says-he-can-only-take-so-much-bickering-and-negativity/
Late to the party here, didn't see this said...MP shut it down
Because he only took so much,
of our ungrateful ways.
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One of the odd outcomes of this debacle is that I now know that Planet X was so great mostly because of Donati. Too lazy to find it, but didn't somebody post that DS said he didn't enjoy playing the Planet X tunes?
That's interesting. I'm going to have to start checking out more of Donati's work. I've only ever heard him in Planet X.
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it has got to be tough to get a new band off the ground. So I think that is adding to MPS frustration. He was in the midst of a well-established band and now he is continuously trying to strike gold again and coming up short. I think the most recent Neal Morse band double album was although overhyped had some really good songs in it. I think I'd rather see him focus on that with Neal Morse. Plus Neal Morse is more of a stable guy and a better influence and I think reels Mike in. It also has Eric Gillette who I think is a truly great talent and is Young and upcoming.
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While I love Neal, I'm all for what Mike does now. Hey, he's burning a hole in my wallet.
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it has got to be tough to get a new band off the ground. So I think that is adding to MPS frustration. He was in the midst of a well-established band and now he is continuously trying to strike gold again and coming up short. I think the most recent Neal Morse band double album was although overhyped had some really good songs in it. I think I'd rather see him focus on that with Neal Morse. Plus Neal Morse is more of a stable guy and a better influence and I think reels Mike in. It also has Eric Gillette who I think is a truly great talent and is Young and upcoming.
I think The Similitude lived up to his hype (I now rank it among my all-time favorite albums by anyone), but I think the low ceiling for NMB as far as popularity goes is why he doesn't make that his main full-time band, at the expense of all others. If NMB sold and drew like Dream Theater, I have no doubt that he wouldn't fill the need to do so many other bands/projects. Even though the existing fanbase loved TSOAD, it seemed like Portnoy was disappointed it didn't grow their audience significantly like an album that good should. For all of his faults, Portnoy is no dummy and he has to play the NMB stuff and realize how much better it is than any other music he has played in the last few years, his new band included.
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I think he also gets caught up in his own hype, more than maybe other musicians. Like, when I hear JP or JLB talk about a new album, saying it's their strongest yet, both sides know that the PR game is being played. With MP, for example with TSOAD, it should have been brutally obvious that the album would have a hard ceiling. It's a niche album performed and written by aging musicians of 90s fame. But, I think MP actually believed his own hype, and when it didn't come out that way, he got bitter and started lashing out at people he perceived to be the problem (since it's never him, always others).
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Mike was online complaining that it wasn't getting praise. As much as I agree with them he gets so personal with everything that it shows.
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Leprous - Malina is a must listen as well. I get that it might not be heavy enough for some compared to their previous material, but it's a great album.
I don't know how well known Need is so I'll leave this here - give it a listen or two, and ignore the video if you don't like that style.
https://youtu.be/NEt3O3vMogI
Never heard of them before, but that was really good.
Umm, yeah not to get off topic but that was awesome. Checking these guys out on Spotify now.
Let me know what you thought of what you heard.
I supposed if we get into it more I should start a thread for it. Just thought this was a good place for it for a few posts - since people were talking about having to buy SoA because there was nothing better this year. :)
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it has got to be tough to get a new band off the ground. So I think that is adding to MPS frustration. He was in the midst of a well-established band and now he is continuously trying to strike gold again and coming up short. I think the most recent Neal Morse band double album was although overhyped had some really good songs in it. I think I'd rather see him focus on that with Neal Morse. Plus Neal Morse is more of a stable guy and a better influence and I think reels Mike in. It also has Eric Gillette who I think is a truly great talent and is Young and upcoming.
I wonder if Portnoy is in the financial position to focus on one band.
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I think he also gets caught up in his own hype, more than maybe other musicians. Like, when I hear JP or JLB talk about a new album, saying it's their strongest yet, both sides know that the PR game is being played. With MP, for example with TSOAD, it should have been brutally obvious that the album would have a hard ceiling. It's a niche album performed and written by aging musicians of 90s fame. But, I think MP actually believed his own hype, and when it didn't come out that way, he got bitter and started lashing out at people he perceived to be the problem (since it's never him, always others).
I even think it's great if an artist doe think something is their best work - just don't be angry at others who don't agree. With JP I think it's less of a PR game than him just being excited about what he's created. If one isn't, that might be a problem. At the same time, he knows better than to assume that everyone else is going to agree with him. I think TSOAD is great and yet I don't really like it - I'm not sure why other than I'm not a huge fan of Neal's voice and I do think Eric Gillette sounds too much like JP for me. That having been said - I get why Mike hyped it so much and I get why so many others really loved it. But as good as it as and as much as he loved it, there's no call for lashing out at people. Neal didn't seem to feel the need to do that.
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What do you think would happen if MP started a band of nobodies? Just like put out an ad on craigslist or something and found the best writers/musicians that he could and didn't need a bunch of familiar names.
Think any of us would care or does he need those other big names to get attention?
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Honestly, I'm not sure he could fetch young talent. From a drumming perspective, he's long past his prime, there are a lot of young and hungry drummers out there who can play circles around him. Not only that, but it's a safe assumption that any such project would be headed by MP. Why would you want that as a budding musician trying to catch your big break? A7X was probably the closest he got to that, and when the inevitable maelstrom around MP began, they quickly dropped him.
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But that's a different story - Avenged Sevenfold was already established. If we're talking about a true band of "nobodies" who happen to be great song writers (and players), then working with Mike would benefit them. Mike has a name and connections to get them heard. And he is talented - he's still a great drummer even though there might be others with more chops.
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Honestly, I'm not sure he could fetch young talent. From a drumming perspective, he's long past his prime, there are a lot of young and hungry drummers out there who can play circles around him. Not only that, but it's a safe assumption that any such project would be headed by MP. Why would you want that as a budding musician trying to catch your big break? A7X was probably the closest he got to that, and when the inevitable maelstrom around MP began, they quickly dropped him.
As much as I love your cynicism, I would like to point out that Charlie Dominici put together band of nobodies.
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That's true, and a good argument. But keep in mind that Charlie had himself dropped to nobody status after his departure from DT. I mean, there were not a lot of people who knew who he was I think when he decided to assemble his band.
What I'm saying here is, past fame can work against you at some point. When people want to create something entirely new, they usually want a blank slate. MP is anything but a blank slate.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE
-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
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That's true, and a good argument. But keep in mind that Charlie had himself dropped to nobody status after his departure from DT. I mean, there were not a lot of people who knew who he was I think when he decided to assemble his band.
I still feel pretty confident that out of all the thousands of nobody guitarists/bassists/singers/whatevers out there, plenty of them would JUMP at the chance to play with someone like Portnoy. While I'm sure plenty would pass it up, enough would want it that he could easily put it together.
Hell, there are long washed up 80's bands that find nobodies to join them and replace people on a weekly basis.
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I do agree with you that I would love to see him do that. Just as I would love to see DT get an unknown producer.
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That's true, and a good argument. But keep in mind that Charlie had himself dropped to nobody status after his departure from DT. I mean, there were not a lot of people who knew who he was I think when he decided to assemble his band.
I still feel pretty confident that out of all the thousands of nobody guitarists/bassists/singers/whatevers out there, plenty of them would JUMP at the chance to play with someone like Portnoy.
Yeah - Chad Kroeger would love to play with Mike Portnoy!
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What do you think would happen if MP started a band of nobodies? Just like put out an ad on craigslist or something and found the best writers/musicians that he could and didn't need a bunch of familiar names.
Think any of us would care or does he need those other big names to get attention?
I think your audience in this thread would say yes, but not sure how much more reach he would have. However, if these hypothetical song writers wrote some good tunes, then who knows what potential they could have. I still like to think the quality of music, not the names of musicians, is what ultimately drives the success of a band.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE
-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
Damn, that was like watching an episode of Real World.
While I love Transatlantic, I've never been into NBM. What's the group dynamic there? Is it Neal's band and he calls the shots, or do they all have a say in things? I kind of assumed that TA was where MP had his say in things, and NMB was where he's supposed to do what he's told. That sure didn't seem to be the case in the video.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE
-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
Damn, that was like watching an episode of Real World.
While I love Transatlantic, I've never been into NBM. What's the group dynamic there? Is it Neal's band and he calls the shots, or do they all have a say in things? I kind of assumed that TA was where MP had his say in things, and NMB was where he's supposed to do what he's told. That sure didn't seem to be the case in the video.
Neal Morse - MP/Randy/whomever are just hired guns and Neal calls all the shots
Neal Morse Band - a collective, much like TA, where they all are involved in the songwriting and fight over ideas and what goes in and what doesn't
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part 2 of my rant.
I was part of the DT.net boards 2001/02. I remember that there was a lot of trolling in late 03 that got dt.net shutdown. I remember Mark Bredius was the admin, so he kept only website for promotion purposes. So I migrated to mp.com. A lot of cool people over there and relatively safe space to discuss TOT album. And I stuck there through many shutdowns and bans. Then Mike quit the band, and I thought that was it for the site, as well as my loyalty to Mike. I was so angry that he left the way he did. Selfish, heartless, cold.
Fast forward 7 years DT has released ADTOE, DT, TA. No album has really clicked for me. While Flying Colors and Winery Dogs did. That's why I stayed away from this place. I dont want to shit on your parade. This seems like a cool place to discuss music. Hopefully we can get past DT and maybe you guys can introduce me to new music.
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Fast forward 7 years DT has released ADTOE, DT, TA. No album has really clicked for me. While Flying Colors and Winery Dogs did. That's why I stayed away from this place. I dont want to shit on your parade. This seems like a cool place to discuss music. Hopefully we can get past DT and maybe you guys can introduce me to new music.
Welcome to our silly little bubble that we live in, toky, but I don't know how you found us cuz we're not really a thing, but we're happy to have another worse-than-Blabbermouth troll in the mix.
"DTF?? That's still a "thing"???
Hahahaha worse trolls than Blabbermouth over there...
Life is so much better without reading their negativity every day...
And the music world is soooooo much bigger than the silly little bubble they all seem to live in...
Their loss!"
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:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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While I love Transatlantic, I've never been into NBM. What's the group dynamic there? Is it Neal's band and he calls the shots, or do they all have a say in things? I kind of assumed that TA was where MP had his say in things, and NMB was where he's supposed to do what he's told. That sure didn't seem to be the case in the video.
I haven't watched the whole video but from the time stamps KenShemv posted it looks like Portnoy has a say in what goes on but he was outvoted by the rest of the band. Then again it is called the Neal Morse Band.
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Listened to Coming Home... I mean, there's nothing progressive about it really, other than the fact that it has keyboards, so...
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I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE
-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
Good God, I've never seen Neal this upset. He also comes across as a very rational guy whose opinions are profoundly explained and you find it hard to disagree with him.
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Yeah that's rough. I don't know much about the guy or the band, but he looks and sounds worn out. Which I can understand that. Mike was pushing back on what NM wanted to do with his art, because DT had also released a double album. That just sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face, to me. I can only imagine how frustrating that would've been to NM. He feels really passionate about his art and the vision for the concept he came up with, but his drummer's former band released a completely unrelated piece of work, so that drummer is throwing a fit about it. NM probably needed to sit him down and tell him to just get over it. Or someone does, at least.
Even SOA being hyped as "BETTER THAN DT!" is kind of sad in a way. It's really time to move on.
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Hi everyone! Although I have not been one of the registered users of the late MP.com forum, I have been following that forum since I got into Dream Theater, I think around the time Systematic Chaos was released. (Over the years I tried multiple times to get registered but somehow the process always failed, no idea why.) It has been part of my daily routine to look up MP.com forum and also this DT forum and get hints to new music and so on… That being said, it’s sad to see this place getting shut down, even as “non- active guest”, whatever the reason for the shutdown is.
As for the “advertising campaign” for the SoA album - while reading all the tweets, announcements and comments to the album, I try not to read too much into them. After all, they need to advertise their product, and for me it seems absolutely normal that superlatives are being used doing this. So for me it is no surprise that they advertise the album somewhat as the best thing after toilet paper and Nutella (to my knowledge nobody has said that, just a term I keep using… ;)). That DS with his tweets is taking this a little too far in many people’s eyes is just due to his personality, I guess. To me it seems he, from his point of view, is only having fun, but others are finding his kind of fun crossing the line and insulting – and he doesn’t realize that or just doesn’t care. MPs behavior on this matter,… just leaves me speechless. Don’t know what to think about that, to be honest.
But, personally I can manage to separate my admiration for the music from the artist. Although, yes, I form an image of the artist, his personality and character, based on what I know about him (or I think I know, that may be different things…), it does usually not affect if like the music or not. (Years ago I had to learn that I have to separate the person itself from what this person does when I got to talk to an NFL player that I really liked to watch playing football– in the chat I had with him I got the impression of him being an absolute douchebag).
As far as the so far released songs are concerned, I like them, but I don’t see them as really groundbreaking as their “advertisement” suggests – but then again, see above. I believe though, that they will grow on me with more listens (I try not to listen to the so far released two songs too often before album release, since I prefer listening to full albums). Usually if I really really really like a song on first listen it gets boring relatively quickly, while the songs that have to grow on me with time I go back to even years later, still liking them. So it seems SoA has a good chance! :biggrin: Also I find that sometimes, in context of the full album, individual songs can leave a different mark (for lack of a better term) than when I listen to them individually. “Permanating” of Steven Wilson’s “To The Bone” comes to mind – my initial reaction was “Meh. Seriously?”, but listening to the full album, I think it fits perfectly. Maybe the SoA album will work the same way for me.
Wow, long first post. Thanks for adding me to the forum, by the way!
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Yeah that's rough. I don't know much about the guy or the band, but he looks and sounds worn out. Which I can understand that. Mike was pushing back on what NM wanted to do with his art, because DT had also released a double album. That just sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face, to me.
I literally haven't heard anything from Neal Morse, and even I know that the guy churns out double albums with the same ease a baker puts out bread in the morning. If someone who is aware of DT and even aware just by name of Neal Morse would go "LOL MP COPIES DT DOUBLE ALBUM LOL HE'S DESPERATE", that opinion shouldn't even be taken in consideration.
And also, double albums are nothing new in prog, so the fear of comparisons shouldn't have been there anyway.
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I wouldn't call the comments on MP's Facebook page trolling. It wouldn't surprise me if people were just trying to see what kind of discussion is and is not welcome.
Not to mention that MP's officially stated reason for closing the Forum was, "In this age of interactive social media outlets, there are plenty of other platforms for us to all gather info and have discussions"
I'm not sure how he defines "have discussions", but deleting completely inoffensive comments from the 'social media outlets' he's told his fans to now use is a pretty broad interpretation.
Whatever, it's his business, if he wants nothing but absolute and total praise at all times then let him engineer that, but I still think he's handled this whole thing really badly. That's just my perception of events though, I'm not him and I don't know what it's like to be in his position.
spot on!
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I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE
-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
Wow, it looks like it's very constructive and productive to work with Neal. He's a guy you can argue with, who accepts your opinion, but still brings good arguments to make it even better. Awesome dude, seriously.
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That's true, and a good argument. But keep in mind that Charlie had himself dropped to nobody status after his departure from DT. I mean, there were not a lot of people who knew who he was I think when he decided to assemble his band.
I still feel pretty confident that out of all the thousands of nobody guitarists/bassists/singers/whatevers out there, plenty of them would JUMP at the chance to play with someone like Portnoy.
Portnoy would finally have a hit single.
Yeah - Chad Kroeger would love to play with Mike Portnoy!
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It's kind of ironic that MP chose to leave DT because he wanted a break, and then he winds up doing more work with more bands than ever before.
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That's true, and a good argument. But keep in mind that Charlie had himself dropped to nobody status after his departure from DT. I mean, there were not a lot of people who knew who he was I think when he decided to assemble his band.
I still feel pretty confident that out of all the thousands of nobody guitarists/bassists/singers/whatevers out there, plenty of them would JUMP at the chance to play with someone like Portnoy.
Portnoy would finally have a hit single.
Yeah - Chad Kroeger would love to play with Mike Portnoy!
I am pretty sure Nickelback and it's members make more money and play in (muuuch) bigger venues than anyone in SoA or even DT all around the world (over here, Nickelback's last booked venue had a capacity of 17000).
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It's kind of ironic that MP chose to leave DT because he wanted a break, and then he winds up doing more work with more bands than ever before.
Well he wanted a break from the DT "cycle" (write, record, tour, write, record, tour), not a break from music completely. He has said so in an interview I recently watched.
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It's kind of ironic that MP chose to leave DT because he wanted a break, and then he winds up doing more work with more bands than ever before.
Well he wanted a break from the DT "cycle" (write, record, tour, write, record, tour), not a break from music completely. He has said so in an interview I recently watched.
He said that shortly after the split, too.
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Nothing to do with the fact that he thought he was going to join A7X of course, absolutely not. Strange that he didn't seem to need that break when A7X told him to take a hike and he went running back to DT "for the fans". Not surprisingly, they told him where to go.
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He said shortly after the split, too.
He's said it in nearly every interview he's done since when asked about DT.
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Yes but maybe all his side projects burnt him on his first band. He was looking at it all wrong.
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-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
I'm not sure it's about the criticism. Mike is used to recording things once and moving along with what originally came out and Neal was proposing to revise it and re-do it. Maybe it was him not wanting to do that because it's not the way he does things.
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I'm still wondering why I got banned from his Facebook for voting for Ne Obliviscaris but the guy who said 'face it, this is the worst band you've ever been in' is still there?? ??? ???
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It's kind of amazing, the sense of entitlement. Share the poll by all means, every artist does it, but to then bitch about not being on the front page? I mean good God.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE
-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
In that initial scene, very single one of those guys had their faces in their phones the entire time.
Some thoughts, about the video and other things:
- I think for me, the idea of social media - the idea of marking transient thoughts in time for all to see - is a HUGE part of this. It's gotten to the point that people can't possibly evolve positions, can't possibly have a change of heart.
- Neal may be a nice guy, but I think anyone who is that talented and that much of a cottage business has to have a will of steel. If you read the recent Bruce Springsteen book, he speaks candidly (as does Little Steven on his own) about the battle of wills when making art, and that someone has to have a/the vision.
- For all the "deep reveal" of the time at 5:00, I notice that not ONE PERSON HERE has mentioned the point at 10:00 or so where Mike was clear that he took responsibility and when he backed off the "magic happened" (a direct quote, to be found at 10:15 to 10:17).
- I'm deeply saddened by the close of the forum, but at the end of the day, it's HIS site. Who cares "why"? He could have done it at any time for any reason. Why should he matain a harbor, a port, for enemy ships? I wouldn't do it.
Back to the first point; I imagine if we had making of footage for any of the great, classic albums, you'd see Robert and Jimmy butting heads, moment to moment, or seeing Keith and Mick go at it, or Ozzy and Tony having to "sleep on it". Hell, the "making of" Snakes and Arrows has a similar moment between Alex/Geddy/Nick and Neil, where they have to tell Neil that his performance "could be better" (by the way, for any Rush fan, that doc is MUST WATCHING; I'm not at all direct quoting, because god forbid I don't get EVERY. LAST. WORD. correct, but Neil's response after re-cutting the drum track is absolutely classic), and in the "making of" Dark Side of the Moon, there is CLEARLY tension between Roger and David. Sometimes one wins and the direction is taken, and it either works or it doesn't, and you readjust the next time out. Most of this stuff isn't, in my opinion, productively viewed in real time in video for all to see. It's for the "Behind The Music" special 10 years on.
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You're gonna need a Facebook account to join the Forum group, Stadler. One of us. One of us...
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You're gonna need a Facebook account to join the Forum group, Stadler. One of us. One of us...
Not going to do it. I joined Twitter, and it's everything I feared it would be. Emails about "updates" and the updates are either "Hey, just talked to #IHavenoideawhywecan'tjustusetheirname, and they're playing #theRoxy tonite!" 1,250 miles from my house, or something dippy like "When I bleed, it is just the pain seeking escape! #Freedom #Sufferformyart"
God. If some of these people set their mind to curing cancer or actually writing music, we'd have something. I can only imagine Facebook is all that, plus.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE
-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
Good God, I've never seen Neal this upset. He also comes across as a very rational guy whose opinions are profoundly explained and you find it hard to disagree with him.
To be fair to both Neal and Mike, the recording process can elicit some intense and unflattering reactions...I have been a part of a few records myself and I feel like the best music sometimes comes from moments where people are at their worst. To have it filmed and shown somewhat out of context places both of them at a disadvantage. Mike's body language looks to me like someone who is exhausted from a long and heated argument, nothing more and nothing less. Considering the results, it looks like the creative tensions was ultimately an asset to the project.
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You're gonna need a Facebook account to join the Forum group, Stadler. One of us. One of us...
Not going to do it. I joined Twitter, and it's everything I feared it would be. Emails about "updates" and the updates are either "Hey, just talked to #IHavenoideawhywecan'tjustusetheirname, and they're playing #theRoxy tonite!" 1,250 miles from my house, or something dippy like "When I bleed, it is just the pain seeking escape! #Freedom #Sufferformyart"
God. If some of these people set their mind to curing cancer or actually writing music, we'd have something. I can only imagine Facebook is all that, plus.
Turn off the email notifications old man ;)
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Through all this crap I'm *still* looking forward to the music from Sons of Apollo. I just wish it didn't come with quite so much baggage.
Along these lines, this reinforces what I said about Dream Theater post-2010; it became fun to be a fan of the band again! In the mid to late 00s, Portnoy's presence and personality became so overbearing, whether it was in interviews or a making of DVD, that it sucked a lot of the fun out of being a fan, at least for me. Once he was gone, it was fun to be a fan again.
I'll NEVER understand this, but it is YOUR opinion.
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You're gonna need a Facebook account to join the Forum group, Stadler. One of us. One of us...
Not going to do it. I joined Twitter, and it's everything I feared it would be. Emails about "updates" and the updates are either "Hey, just talked to #IHavenoideawhywecan'tjustusetheirname, and they're playing #theRoxy tonite!" 1,250 miles from my house, or something dippy like "When I bleed, it is just the pain seeking escape! #Freedom #Sufferformyart"
God. If some of these people set their mind to curing cancer or actually writing music, we'd have something. I can only imagine Facebook is all that, plus.
Turn off the email notifications old man ;)
Is that in the "File" menu?
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I watched the video from 5 minutes on, and didn't really see it as a big deal. Mike seems like he had a bit of an attitude, but we've probably all been there. He does at least admit that the difficult day was probably his fault.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE
-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
I think that video actually shows great maturity of MP. He was having an off day(we have all been there) came in the next day and realized he made a mistake. On top of that he said that if they listed to him the record would not have been as good because the album was allowed to go where it wanted to go.
On a side not, Neal seems very mature and is an amazing talent and prolific writer. I am not a big fan of all of his music but I have tremendous respect for him.
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- For all the "deep reveal" of the time at 5:00, I notice that not ONE PERSON HERE has mentioned the point at 10:00 or so where Mike was clear that he took responsibility and when he backed off the "magic happened" (a direct quote, to be found at 10:15 to 10:17).
Why would anyone necessarily have mentioned it? It isn't relevant to the point Kev was making. If you want to cite it for something to make your own point, cool. But it really has nothing to do with what Kev was saying.
- I'm deeply saddened by the close of the forum, but at the end of the day, it's HIS site. Who cares "why"?
Judging from a lot of the posts here and on social media, A LOT of people care about why. It matters.
Why should he matain a harbor, a port, for enemy ships? I wouldn't do it.
And this is really the crux of the matter--Mike failed to realize that it never was a "port for enemy ships." The vast majority of people of his site were fans and wanted to support him. Being critical, voicing disagreement, or not liking some of his music or some of the things he has done does not make one an "enemy." The forum community he had was far more of a positive promotional tool than a negative one, but he failed to see that and take advantage of it. Me made the same mistake 10 years ago when he shut down the forum at DT.net. He didn't realize what a vital and vibrant community it was, and that it would resurface here and STILL be a huge promotion machine for him and his projects (primarily DT). The rest of the band DID realize it and eventually got behind and supported what we are doing here. And, for the most part, when a negative or critical trend emerges and they get down about it, they see it for what it is and eventually move on from it and get back to "the fans on the forum are critical of X, but they are still behind us." Mike's unwillingness or inability to get into that mindset is, IMO, a flaw and a mistake. But it's his to make.
Through all this crap I'm *still* looking forward to the music from Sons of Apollo. I just wish it didn't come with quite so much baggage.
Along these lines, this reinforces what I said about Dream Theater post-2010; it became fun to be a fan of the band again! In the mid to late 00s, Portnoy's presence and personality became so overbearing, whether it was in interviews or a making of DVD, that it sucked a lot of the fun out of being a fan, at least for me. Once he was gone, it was fun to be a fan again.
I'll NEVER understand this, but it is YOUR opinion.
Actually, it is an opinion shared by MANY (including me). So it might behoove you to try to understand it. That isn't to say you should necessarily agree with it. But understanding it has value.
I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE
-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
I think that video actually shows great maturity of MP. He was having an off day(we have all been there) came in the next day and realized he made a mistake. On top of that he said that if they listed to him the record would not have been as good because the album was allowed to go where it wanted to go.
On a side not, Neal seems very mature and is an amazing talent and prolific writer. I am not a big fan of all of his music but I have tremendous respect for him.
Yeah, I agree with all of that. And I get why he felt the way he did about it NOT being a double album. Given his own personal situation, the timing could not have been worse for doing a double album with Neal. I think he may have even felt that it was insensitive of Neal to not understand that and give it more credence. And, again, I get that. It isn't offbase for Mike to feel that way--especially since some fans DID unfairly level that criticism at him. But it all worked out for the best.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyhow, more ON TOPIC, I've had Signs of the Time stuck in my head for a couple of days. Hope I don't get burned out on it by the time the album comes out. That's the downside of listening too much to a lead single or teaser track--sometimes, it gets too much exposure in isolation so that fans quickly tire of it once the album is finally released. Still looking forward to the album. Again, funny how after almost a year of absolute musical drought, probably the only candidates for new album purchases for me this year all come on the same date. Late October should be fun.
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You're gonna need a Facebook account to join the Forum group, Stadler. One of us. One of us...
Not going to do it. I joined Twitter, and it's everything I feared it would be. Emails about "updates" and the updates are either "Hey, just talked to #IHavenoideawhywecan'tjustusetheirname, and they're playing #theRoxy tonite!" 1,250 miles from my house, or something dippy like "When I bleed, it is just the pain seeking escape! #Freedom #Sufferformyart"
God. If some of these people set their mind to curing cancer or actually writing music, we'd have something. I can only imagine Facebook is all that, plus.
You're no fun, old man. :) I have never once used Twitter but I have used Facebook for 9 years...
Turn off email notifications. You can customize your feed to only see updates from people or pages you care about. No 140 character limit. Hell, you'd probably love reading Mike Rowe's lengthy, well thought out posts. Ironically you talk about if some of those people set their mind to curing cancer blah blah - how much time do you (and I) spend on this message board? Come now. One of us. One of us. :)
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Can someone please knock some sense into Portnoy and tell him to focus mainly on Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors?
The "roll and roll swagger" element is what raised the red flag for me in that first press release. Not something that appeals to me. Generally not into bands that do that.
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Can someone please knock some sense into Portnoy and tell him to focus mainly on Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors?
The "roll and roll swagger" element is what raised the red flag for me in that first press release. Not something that appeals to me. Generally not into bands that do that.
Maybe Jordan being a better player isn't the only reason they wanted to replace Derek.
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I might have grated on some people (unintentionally) but I was Firewings over there. I love all the forum members on my Facebook, and even text some regularly - if anyone wants to add me on social media just send me a PM. I love all the regulars on the MP forum and enjoy the people here as well. I would like to discuss Mike's projects with likeminded individuals on more than one place (not that there's anything wrong with this thread, I just like multiple outlets).
Also I apologize if I pissed anyone off ever. I feel like I had a hand in the forum getting shut down and I feel bad.
I don't think it's your fault really.
Don't do social media so I'm not involved in any of that stuff.
The only surprise is the timing. We were lucky to have the site as long as we did. He lost interest in it a long time ago. Much easier to post on Twitter and Facebook I guess. There really was no financial or promotional benefit for him to keep it running so it was a gift for a while there. I'm sure it didn't help when he discovered that this place drew more traffic.
Fortunately there are still a few forums left to have thoughtful discussions.
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Can someone please knock some sense into Portnoy and tell him to focus mainly on Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors?
The "roll and roll swagger" element is what raised the red flag for me in that first press release. Not something that appeals to me. Generally not into bands that do that.
Maybe Jordan being a better player isn't the only reason they wanted to replace Derek.
Look, if I remember correctly, DS was, from the first, only a keyboardist to be replaced, because they already had in mind JR for DT, but the guy had other commitments or didn't want to join at the time or sthg to that effect. As for JR being a better player than DS : technically, I think so, but at the end of the day, it all amounts to personal taste. I personally prefer JR on all aspects, but that's just me. To conclude, I don't know for the guys in DT, but DS's r'n'r swagger irritated me a lot!
B.Lee
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One of the odd outcomes of this debacle is that I now know that Planet X was so great mostly because of Donati. Too lazy to find it, but didn't somebody post that DS said he didn't enjoy playing the Planet X tunes?
Really? I love Planet X and think it's some of Derek's best work but I know nothing about how the band was formed and how they got on.
But then there was no rock and roll swagger in Planet X so maybe that was his problem?
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I listened to Donati's In This Life album yesterday, and yeah, you can tell that the"crazy prog" of Planet X was Virgil's making. That said, I think Derek's big contribution to the project might have been to not lose track of the hook and melody of a song, something that In This Life is guilty of. Derek might have served the same role as Steven Wilson with Guthrie Govan. Guthrie always wanted to go off the rails, but Steven reigned him in, producing some of Guthrie's best guitar work.
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it has got to be tough to get a new band off the ground. So I think that is adding to MPS frustration. He was in the midst of a well-established band and now he is continuously trying to strike gold again and coming up short. I think the most recent Neal Morse band double album was although overhyped had some really good songs in it. I think I'd rather see him focus on that with Neal Morse. Plus Neal Morse is more of a stable guy and a better influence and I think reels Mike in. It also has Eric Gillette who I think is a truly great talent and is Young and upcoming.
These days it is nearly impossible to build something from the ground up and it doesn't matter who you are. That's the "industry" such as it is right now.
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- For all the "deep reveal" of the time at 5:00, I notice that not ONE PERSON HERE has mentioned the point at 10:00 or so where Mike was clear that he took responsibility and when he backed off the "magic happened" (a direct quote, to be found at 10:15 to 10:17).
Why would anyone necessarily have mentioned it? It isn't relevant to the point Kev was making. If you want to cite it for something to make your own point, cool. But it really has nothing to do with what Kev was saying.
I was simply observing that no one bothered to cite the part where he acted mature, adult and compromises for the better of the band.
- I'm deeply saddened by the close of the forum, but at the end of the day, it's HIS site. Who cares "why"?
Judging from a lot of the posts here and on social media, A LOT of people care about why. It matters.
Doesn't make them all right. Seems a lot of people care about the Kardashians. Do they matter? And more specific to this, he cited his reasons, and just as many people thing they have their own insight into why he closed it. He's made comments that the forum was a burden for a long time now, and it was clearly not his priority. He likes the Twitter.
Why should he matain a harbor, a port, for enemy ships? I wouldn't do it.
And this is really the crux of the matter--Mike failed to realize that it never was a "port for enemy ships." The vast majority of people of his site were fans and wanted to support him. Being critical, voicing disagreement, or not liking some of his music or some of the things he has done does not make one an "enemy." The forum community he had was far more of a positive promotional tool than a negative one, but he failed to see that and take advantage of it. Me made the same mistake 10 years ago when he shut down the forum at DT.net. He didn't realize what a vital and vibrant community it was, and that it would resurface here and STILL be a huge promotion machine for him and his projects (primarily DT). The rest of the band DID realize it and eventually got behind and supported what we are doing here. And, for the most part, when a negative or critical trend emerges and they get down about it, they see it for what it is and eventually move on from it and get back to "the fans on the forum are critical of X, but they are still behind us." Mike's unwillingness or inability to get into that mindset is, IMO, a flaw and a mistake. But it's his to make.
In recent weeks though, it was. It wasn't just about criticism of the work, though that too. There were people - not suggesting anyone in particular; this is not to be construed as a personal attack of any kind - that took it upon themselves to aggressively comment on HIM and his behavior.
I happen to agree with you that commentary on the work should be a two-way street, and I happen to think that perhaps there is some truth in what el Barto said.
Through all this crap I'm *still* looking forward to the music from Sons of Apollo. I just wish it didn't come with quite so much baggage.
Along these lines, this reinforces what I said about Dream Theater post-2010; it became fun to be a fan of the band again! In the mid to late 00s, Portnoy's presence and personality became so overbearing, whether it was in interviews or a making of DVD, that it sucked a lot of the fun out of being a fan, at least for me. Once he was gone, it was fun to be a fan again.
I'll NEVER understand this, but it is YOUR opinion.
Actually, it is an opinion shared by MANY (including me). So it might behoove you to try to understand it. That isn't to say you should necessarily agree with it. But understanding it has value.
I'm just the opposite; it became for lack of a better word, boring. There seemed to be a wall now between the band and the fans, at least for me. The Astonishing show I saw was so... clinical and cold and precise - the only exception being Petrucci's solo at the end of Act I (I think) - and honestly, if and when I think of that show, I immediately think of sitting in a bar with el Barto, and walking around the venue after the show because one of our other friends had it in her head to try to meet the band. They're still a great band - they certainly didn't forget how to play - and they still are a first day buy, but they have lost their elite "top three or five bands I like" status, but, it must be said, the slot was taken by Neal Morse and his band.
I happen to agree that it behooves (great word, by the way) us all to understand others' positions. But I don't at all think that the "number of people" that hold that opinion gives it any real substantive cred. I'm pretty much the lone wolf here in terms of balancing the commentary against Mike, and that doesn't 'make my opinion any less valid. I did, after all, happen to call the "Derek is joking, and pulling DTF's leg" point, as evidenced by his retweet saying just that a couple days ago.
Anyhow, more ON TOPIC, I've had Signs of the Time stuck in my head for a couple of days. Hope I don't get burned out on it by the time the album comes out. That's the downside of listening too much to a lead single or teaser track--sometimes, it gets too much exposure in isolation so that fans quickly tire of it once the album is finally released. Still looking forward to the album. Again, funny how after almost a year of absolute musical drought, probably the only candidates for new album purchases for me this year all come on the same date. Late October should be fun.
I'm really interested in hearing the album as a whole. I think one of the things about prog metal (and prog in general) is that the sum is usually greater than the individual parts. I think it is going to be an interesting listen. I would venture that it's at least possible that songs like Signs of the Time and Coming Home are better in context.
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And Stadler has returned to the forum... As for being "pretty much the lone wolf here in terms of balancing the commentary against Mike", it's not true : there are other people here doing it, beginning with Bosk or Ariich for instance (not the least people on DTF you may notice).
B.Lee
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I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE
-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).
I think that video actually shows great maturity of MP. He was having an off day(we have all been there) came in the next day and realized he made a mistake. On top of that he said that if they listed to him the record would not have been as good because the album was allowed to go where it wanted to go.
On a side not, Neal seems very mature and is an amazing talent and prolific writer. I am not a big fan of all of his music but I have tremendous respect for him.
That's the creative process at work. Not something fans usually get to experience.
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Can someone please knock some sense into Portnoy and tell him to focus mainly on Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors?
The "roll and roll swagger" element is what raised the red flag for me in that first press release. Not something that appeals to me. Generally not into bands that do that.
Maybe Jordan being a better player isn't the only reason they wanted to replace Derek.
Can't speak to what the band wanted.
But I know for me after seeing him in the band live from '94 to '98, that aspect was a total turnoff to me. To be fair though, his "personality" didn't happen until he was made a full member of the band.
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- I'm deeply saddened by the close of the forum, but at the end of the day, it's HIS site. Who cares "why"?
Judging from a lot of the posts here and on social media, A LOT of people care about why. It matters.
Doesn't make them all right. Seems a lot of people care about the Kardashians. Do they matter? And more specific to this, he cited his reasons, and just as many people thing they have their own insight into why he closed it. He's made comments that the forum was a burden for a long time now, and it was clearly not his priority. He likes the Twitter.
Since when is caring for why something happened being wrong? And who are you to judge wether people are right or wrong? If people care why then they have the right to ask the question and try to get an answer.
As for the Kardashians, yes, they matter wether you like it or not. They might not matter to you, but they certainly do to a lot of people. Is it ridiculuos? I would say it is but the fact that something doesn't matter to me doesn't mean it doesn't matter one way or another for someone else.
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- For all the "deep reveal" of the time at 5:00, I notice that not ONE PERSON HERE has mentioned the point at 10:00 or so where Mike was clear that he took responsibility and when he backed off the "magic happened" (a direct quote, to be found at 10:15 to 10:17).
Why would anyone necessarily have mentioned it? It isn't relevant to the point Kev was making. If you want to cite it for something to make your own point, cool. But it really has nothing to do with what Kev was saying.
I was simply observing that no one bothered to cite the part where he acted mature, adult and compromises for the better of the band.
Which, again, was unnecessary because nobody was even attempting to argue that he had NOT acted mature in that scenario. Kev’s point was simply that the two parts he cited seemed to be indicators of Mike’s desire to always be in charge and may have been a realization by him that he needed a new project that really was HIS. That is a completely neutral observation, whether or not it may be a correct one, and doesn’t address any maturity or immaturity. You are citing a problem that doesn’t exist.
- I'm deeply saddened by the close of the forum, but at the end of the day, it's HIS site. Who cares "why"?
Judging from a lot of the posts here and on social media, A LOT of people care about why. It matters.
Doesn't make them all right. Seems a lot of people care about the Kardashians. Do they matter? And more specific to this, he cited his reasons, and just as many people thing they have their own insight into why he closed it. He's made comments that the forum was a burden for a long time now, and it was clearly not his priority. He likes the Twitter.
I didn’t say it makes them “right.” I said it matters. And it matters because a number of people in the relevant pool (i.e., the fan base) care about it. An artist understanding and relating to how the fan base feels is important, and any artist that willfully ignores or fails to understand that is doing themselves a disservice.
Through all this crap I'm *still* looking forward to the music from Sons of Apollo. I just wish it didn't come with quite so much baggage.
Along these lines, this reinforces what I said about Dream Theater post-2010; it became fun to be a fan of the band again! In the mid to late 00s, Portnoy's presence and personality became so overbearing, whether it was in interviews or a making of DVD, that it sucked a lot of the fun out of being a fan, at least for me. Once he was gone, it was fun to be a fan again.
I'll NEVER understand this, but it is YOUR opinion.
Actually, it is an opinion shared by MANY (including me). So it might behoove you to try to understand it. That isn't to say you should necessarily agree with it. But understanding it has value.
…
I happen to agree that it behooves (great word, by the way) us all to understand others' positions. But I don't at all think that the "number of people" that hold that opinion gives it any real substantive cred.
Similar to my point above, the number of people that feel a certain way doesn’t give the position itself “cred” or make the opinion “right.” But if a significant number of people in the fan base feel a certain way, the fact that that feeling exists is worthy of consideration because failing to give it consideration has great potential to damage Portnoy’s relationship with this fans even further.
I'm pretty much the lone wolf here in terms of balancing the commentary against Mike, and that doesn't 'make my opinion any less valid.
But the problem is that your commentary is anything but “balanced.” It is only “balanced” in terms of you taking the opposite extreme of those you criticize.
Anyhow, more ON TOPIC, I've had Signs of the Time stuck in my head for a couple of days. Hope I don't get burned out on it by the time the album comes out. That's the downside of listening too much to a lead single or teaser track--sometimes, it gets too much exposure in isolation so that fans quickly tire of it once the album is finally released. Still looking forward to the album. Again, funny how after almost a year of absolute musical drought, probably the only candidates for new album purchases for me this year all come on the same date. Late October should be fun.
I'm really interested in hearing the album as a whole. I think one of the things about prog metal (and prog in general) is that the sum is usually greater than the individual parts. I think it is going to be an interesting listen. I would venture that it's at least possible that songs like Signs of the Time and Coming Home are better in context.
Quite possible. That is often the case. But even out of context, they’re perfectly fine songs, even if not what the album was originally advertised as being.
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- I'm deeply saddened by the close of the forum, but at the end of the day, it's HIS site. Who cares "why"?
Judging from a lot of the posts here and on social media, A LOT of people care about why. It matters.
Doesn't make them all right. Seems a lot of people care about the Kardashians. Do they matter? And more specific to this, he cited his reasons, and just as many people thing they have their own insight into why he closed it. He's made comments that the forum was a burden for a long time now, and it was clearly not his priority. He likes the Twitter.
Since when is caring for why something happened being wrong? And who are you to judge wether people are right or wrong? If people care why then they have the right to ask the question and try to get an answer.
As for the Kardashians, yes, they matter wether you like it or not. They might not matter to you, but they certainly do to a lot of people. Is it ridiculuos? I would say it is but the fact that something doesn't matter to me doesn't mean it doesn't matter one way or another for someone else.
Respectfully, I'm not saying anyone is wrong. Just the opposite. I do, though, feel that this topic seems to engender people picking and choosing facts to suit the preconceived argument, rather than building the argument from scratch from all the facts. That's not specifically against any one member, nor is it specific to any one argument. It's a general observation and not a personal attack. What I was really arguing against is the idea that it might be determinative that more people are taking one position over another. It's like going to a pro-vegetarian forum and asking about the taste of veal and wondering why most of the people think it tastes horrible.
The Kardashian reference wasn't meant to diss them or anyone that follows them, but to provide an example where perhaps it might be debatable what that worth really is, and whether it's necessarily a good thing overall. I could have used any of a number of more incendiary examples; prior to about five years ago, far more people were against gay marriage than before, for example.
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But even out of context, they’re perfectly fine songs, even if not what the album was originally advertised as being.
That's the underlying 'issue' I have. When DS starting billing themselves as the new kings of prog and it was prog this and prog that....these two songs don't scream prog at all and I think that's where I personally started to become a bit skeptical about this project.
Signs of Times is a pretty cool song actually...at least musically. I'm still adjusting to the vocals in it and can at least tolerate them in it. And there's certainly prog elements. Coming Home on the other hand...well........
If the album populates in my Apple Music Service I'll give it a listen or two. I'm sure there will be some cool segments and maybe even better songs. But the entire 'publicity' aspect of this project is what has put a bad taste in my mouth about it. Not the actual music.
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@Stadler - it's clear that unless we're balls deep in Mike's ass over everything he does like that Marc guy over on his Facebook and Twitter (Actual quotes: "Coming Home rules!! I'm going to have such a BONER when they play it live!!!" and "James LaBrie, most arrogant miserable bastard ever!!"), he doesn't want to hear any criticism, constructive or not. Hell even with Neal Morse in that clip, despite him taking responsibility later, it's clear he's visibly frustrated at being told what something should sound like even though it isn't his band to call the shots.
So I ask you, why can we not judge the behavior of a self-proclaimed 'control freak' who's admitted he can't handle the Internet, who's grown increasingly defensive and lashes out against all feedback that isn't showering him with praise, who calls this entire forum 'trolls and haters,' who tries to control conversations about his music but does nothing against insults towards bandmates he spent 20+ years with, and then shuts his own forum down because he's too insecure to just let fans - and this is important - do what fans do?
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Which, again, was unnecessary because nobody was even attempting to argue that he had NOT acted mature in that scenario. Kev’s point was simply that the two parts he cited seemed to be indicators of Mike’s desire to always be in charge and may have been a realization by him that he needed a new project that really was HIS. That is a completely neutral observation, whether or not it may be a correct one, and doesn’t address any maturity or immaturity. You are citing a problem that doesn’t exist.
The overabundance of negative comments about Mike here may or may not be a "problem that doesn't exist", but I think it's fair to point out that when there is a CLEAR example of him acting in opposition to the general trend that we've seen over the past several pages here as well as elsewhere, no one bothered to note it. It was an observation.
I didn’t say it makes them “right.” I said it matters. And it matters because a number of people in the relevant pool (i.e., the fan base) care about it. An artist understanding and relating to how the fan base feels is important, and any artist that willfully ignores or fails to understand that is doing themselves a disservice.
Fair point; here's an honest question for you, though: if it is necessary for an artist to understand and relate to how the fan base feels - notwithstanding that most artists make art independent of what the "fans" want; they follow their muse - is it equally necessary for that fanbase to understand and relate to how the artist feels? There was a long string of posts here where it was hammered home that we can't worry about context, we can't worry about other things, only the exact words that the artist puts out there. That seems to imply to me that there is no need to understand or relate or perhaps look at things from a different perspective. Isn't it at least a two way street? If it's not, should it be?
I'm pretty much the lone wolf here in terms of balancing the commentary against Mike, and that doesn't 'make my opinion any less valid.
But the problem is that your commentary is anything but “balanced.” It is only “balanced” in terms of you taking the opposite extreme of those you criticize.
I disagree with that respectfully, but strenuously. Being "balanced" isn't about where you fall on the spectrum, it's how you deal with those pieces of information that don't fit neatly in your model. I don't ignore the bad, and I don't ignore the parts that don't fit my argument. I'm not at all blind to Mike's behaviors, and I don't like nor condone all of them. Where I am different - and therefore I feel balanced - is that I don't let my emotions guide what the response is. Whether Derek is 'funny' or not, or 'pisses me off' or not (the words in quotes are not a direct quote, or implying that anyone specific said that; it's just a way of highlighting words that may mean different things to different people) is immaterial to me. There was clear evidence there that he was joking, but that was summarily ignored by many people observing. I opted to not insert my bias - that's not really my kind of humor - but rather take him at what seemed like his intent. I have my feelings, my emotions, about the closing of the forum (and they are not positive, for the most part; there were a handful of people there that I consider friends; not "internet friends", but "friends", and I feel a loss at having lost the opportunity to have a collective conversation with some of them), but that doesn't change that anyone who was looking could have seen this coming for years. Frankly, I think it only lasted this long because at first it would have engendered the same (dreaded) response that Mike feared in that video, and later simply because of apathy. But those feelings don't and shouldn't enter into that equation one bit.
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But even out of context, they’re perfectly fine songs, even if not what the album was originally advertised as being.
That's the underlying 'issue' I have. When DS starting billing themselves as the new kings of prog and it was prog this and prog that....these two songs don't scream prog at all and I think that's where I personally started to become a bit skeptical about this project.
Signs of Times is a pretty cool song actually...at least musically. I'm still adjusting to the vocals in it and can at least tolerate them in it. And there's certainly prog elements. Coming Home on the other hand...well........
If the album populates in my Apple Music Service I'll give it a listen or two. I'm sure there will be some cool segments and maybe even better songs. But the entire 'publicity' aspect of this project is what has put a bad taste in my mouth about it. Not the actual music.
For me it's both. The publicity aspect has put a bad taste in my mouth for sure. But I also really dislike Coming Home, and Signs of the Time feels like watered down Symphony X to me. I haven't been that excited about SX lately in general. I'm also not sold on the vocals, so with all that combined, I'm just not optimistic about the rest. Nonetheless, there's always the chance that one of the other songs will resonate.
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(https://s26.postimg.org/ahrf6arux/Capture.png)
I am sure he thinks this is just rock and roll swagger, which is not surprising given that he is a huge fan of Kiss (assholes) and Van Halen (Roth and EVH are two of the biggest douchebags in rock history), but it just comes off as condescending and will just piss off his target audience (which isn't that big in the first place). I mean, a 50-year old man is that really worried about swagger and acting tough. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Can someone please knock some sense into Portnoy and tell him to focus mainly on Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors?
A prog keyboardist acting all macho and calling out another keyboardist on being too lame or cheesy or whatever is sort of like WWE wrestlers calling eachother out on cheating :biggrin:
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There was a long string of posts here where it was hammered home that we can't worry about context, we can't worry about other things, only the exact words that the artist puts out there.
That GROSSLY misstates what was said to the point where it's not remotely accurate. But it is also irrelevant to what we are discussing now, so...
Fair point; here's an honest question for you, though: if it is necessary for an artist to understand and relate to how the fan base feels - notwithstanding that most artists make art independent of what the "fans" want; they follow their muse - is it equally necessary for that fanbase to understand and relate to how the artist feels?
No. And I mean that strictly from a practical standpoint. It behooves the artist to understand and acknowledge the fan base because failure to do so can alienate the fan base, which results in fewer album and concert ticket sales, which results in the artist not having the success he wants to have. The practical effect on the fan of a fan not understanding and acknowledging the artist's feelings is practically nil. If I misunderstand the fact that Gene Simmons is an altruist and humanitarian of the highest order and don't buy his albums as a result, the net loss for me is that my CD collection has room for artists who are not Gene Simmons. If he publicly portrays himself in a way that a large segment of his fan base finds distasteful, and he ignores that, he hurts himself and there is a very tangible impact to him. So, yeah, it behooves him to acknowledge the fan base's feelings and their perception of him. But there really isn't any reciprocal obligation (for lack of a better word).
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@Stadler - it's clear that unless we're balls deep in Mike's ass over everything he does like that Marc guy over on his Facebook and Twitter (Actual quotes: "Coming Home rules!! I'm going to have such a BONER when they play it live!!!" and "James LaBrie, most arrogant miserable bastard ever!!"), he doesn't want to hear any criticism, constructive or not. Hell even with Neal Morse in that clip, despite him taking responsibility later, it's clear he's visibly frustrated at being told what something should sound like even though it isn't his band to call the shots.
So I ask you, why can we not judge the behavior of a self-proclaimed 'control freak' who's admitted he can't handle the Internet, who's grown increasingly defensive and lashes out against all feedback that isn't showering him with praise, who calls this entire forum 'trolls and haters,' who tries to control conversations about his music but does nothing against insults towards bandmates he spent 20+ years with, and then shuts his own forum down because he's too insecure to just let fans - and this is important - do what fans do?
You can. But IMO when you are in someone else's house you should exercise common decency and respect. It's like being invited
into a guests home for dinner and then feeling the need to proclaim the beef stew sucked balls. It may have sucked balls
but there is a time and place for that discussion and in front of the guests, who invited you there, is not the place.
It just seems like such an en vogue thing to continue to jump all over the man, when in fact he is just a musician who has never
(as far as I know) personally done anything to anyone here except maybe Bosk. He's a human being with strengths and
faults like all of us...just trying to make his way through life. And while I can't dismiss some of his actions in the past, I also
remember that I have not been perfect in my life either. Who am I to judge? I guess if it makes you or anyone else feel
somehow better than go ahead and continue to trash him but in the end what does anyone gain?
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@Stadler - it's clear that unless we're balls deep in Mike's ass over everything he does like that Marc guy over on his Facebook and Twitter (Actual quotes: "Coming Home rules!! I'm going to have such a BONER when they play it live!!!" and "James LaBrie, most arrogant miserable bastard ever!!"), he doesn't want to hear any criticism, constructive or not. Hell even with Neal Morse in that clip, despite him taking responsibility later, it's clear he's visibly frustrated at being told what something should sound like even though it isn't his band to call the shots.
So I ask you, why can we not judge the behavior of a self-proclaimed 'control freak' who's admitted he can't handle the Internet, who's grown increasingly defensive and lashes out against all feedback that isn't showering him with praise, who calls this entire forum 'trolls and haters,' who tries to control conversations about his music but does nothing against insults towards bandmates he spent 20+ years with, and then shuts his own forum down because he's too insecure to just let fans - and this is important - do what fans do?
You can judge whatever you want. Not telling anyone what to do. But it's not unfair for someone to point out the flaws in those judgments. Case in point: "shuts his own forum down because he's too insecure to just let fans - and this is important - do what fans do"? What exactly is it that "fans" do? Call their favorite artist "insecure" and ridicule his choices of marketing? Tell him how to run his band (a band he may or may not be the leader of, though I understand that he did at least once say he would be leading this band)? He's not the first artist to take this kind of position. Kiss does it, Paul Stanley in particular. Phil Collins makes Mike Portnoy look like an alligator (thick skin reference, there). Both Genesis and Phil shut down the forums at their sites for similar reason. Most artists forsake the whole forum thing altogether simply to avoid the confrontation.
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Good points emtee. Don't have much of an argument to the first paragraph - need to chew on that for a while. I think I agree and disagree at the same time. I think I fundamentally have a problem with, "Come here, feel free to discuss - but don't discuss (this) or (that), and keep your thoughts on (this) positive, because negative feedback isn't accepted."
As to why discuss it? I dunno. Why discuss anything? Fans talk about the most minute things, not usually because they're trying to trash anyone, but because they're passionate about the given subject and want to communicate how they see things. It is totally understandable how some aren't about that, though.
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Great post, emtee. And that has pretty much what has been behind my philosophy in running this site from day 1, which is why this place is run the way it is. It's too bad Mike never got that. But the rest of the band pretty much does.
Anyhow, we're getting pretty far afield again. Let's bring it back to topic. I know the actual topic isn't as much fun, and there isn't as much to discuss right now while we're in waiting mode. But we're just going round and round on tangents now.
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Noted. Apologies, bosk man. :)
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I'm really interested in hearing the album as a whole. I think one of the things about prog metal (and prog in general) is that the sum is usually greater than the individual parts. I think it is going to be an interesting listen. I would venture that it's at least possible that songs like Signs of the Time and Coming Home are better in context.
I didn't think about that. It's a good point. Coming Home is quite unremarkable but it might sound better depending on what comes before and after it on the album. I just hope the rest of the album isn't so radio friendly.
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Coming home is the 2nd track, signs of the time is the 3rd. The first is a longer prog metal track with strong middle eastern influence...
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@Stadler - it's clear that unless we're balls deep in Mike's ass over everything he does like that Marc guy over on his Facebook and Twitter (Actual quotes: "Coming Home rules!! I'm going to have such a BONER when they play it live!!!" and "James LaBrie, most arrogant miserable bastard ever!!"), he doesn't want to hear any criticism, constructive or not. Hell even with Neal Morse in that clip, despite him taking responsibility later, it's clear he's visibly frustrated at being told what something should sound like even though it isn't his band to call the shots.
So I ask you, why can we not judge the behavior of a self-proclaimed 'control freak' who's admitted he can't handle the Internet, who's grown increasingly defensive and lashes out against all feedback that isn't showering him with praise, who calls this entire forum 'trolls and haters,' who tries to control conversations about his music but does nothing against insults towards bandmates he spent 20+ years with, and then shuts his own forum down because he's too insecure to just let fans - and this is important - do what fans do?
You can. But IMO when you are in someone else's house you should exercise common decency and respect. It's like being invited
into a guests home for dinner and then feeling the need to proclaim the beef stew sucked balls. It may have sucked balls
but there is a time and place for that discussion and in front of the guests, who invited you there, is not the place.
It just seems like such an en vogue thing to continue to jump all over the man, when in fact he is just a musician who has never
(as far as I know) personally done anything to anyone here except maybe Bosk. He's a human being with strengths and
faults like all of us...just trying to make his way through life. And while I can't dismiss some of his actions in the past, I also
remember that I have not been perfect in my life either. Who am I to judge? I guess if it makes you or anyone else feel
somehow better than go ahead and continue to trash him but in the end what does anyone gain?
Can I use this as my signature? This is the essence of what I'm saying, though I'm not saying it in anywhere near as eloquent a way.
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I don't buy JSS singing in the band. I simply don't like his singing on the 2 tracks released and I used to be a huge fan of him. As for the tracks themselves, it's simply not the music I want to listen to- it's not bad at all- but it's simply not my cup of tea.
B.Lee
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The first is a longer prog metal track with strong middle eastern influence...
Sounds interesting!
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Here's a question that has been nagging me.
If Sons of Apollo isn't received as well as perhaps MP and DS want it to, or, if for some reason the chemistry breaks down with JSS (the points people made pages ago regarding the recording of the vocals is what I am referring to), do you think they pull a Dream Theater and replace JSS with someone else?
I mean no disrespect to JSS, but I'm just saying that if it doesn't work out (either with JSS, or the band as a whole), would MP get another guy, or simply fold the band?
I think the question is valid, since so many of these new bands really only get a record to prove themselves. I think with MP's history, he'd probably get a couple...
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Here's a question that has been nagging me.
If Sons of Apollo isn't received as well as perhaps MP and DS want it to, or, if for some reason the chemistry breaks down with JSS (the points people made pages ago regarding the recording of the vocals is what I am referring to), do you think they pull a Dream Theater and replace JSS with someone else?
I mean no respect to JSS, but I'm just saying that if it doesn't work out (either with JSS, or the band as a whole), would MP get another guy, or simply fold the band?
I think the question is valid, since so many of these new bands really only get a record to prove themselves. I think with MP's history, he'd probably get a couple...
You have no respect for JSS?!? :biggrin:
B.Lee
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FIXED!
Boy, that was embarrassing. :blush
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From the looks of it the singing is gonna be the least of their problems.
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Found a link to this review on Facebook: https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
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Found a link to this review on Facebook: https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
Interesting review and well written. I do, however, always hold these at arms length when a reviewer does not point out anything that he or she doesn't like. NOTHING is perfect. Having done a ton of album and concert reviews for a variety of online and print publications myself, I love the enthusiasm in this. But there has to be something to balance out all the praise.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
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Found a link to this review on Facebook: https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
Interesting review and well written. I do, however, always hold these at arms length when a reviewer does not point out anything that he or she doesn't like. NOTHING is perfect. Having done a ton of album and concert reviews for a variety of online and print publications myself, I love the enthusiasm in this. But there has to be something to balance out all the praise.
Yeah, I've read it (Mike himself posted it), it feels too good to be true. We'll see!
And about the instrumental:
the epic ends in a huge slow climax that terminates with a single keyboard note left drifting into the distance.
Uhm, where have I already heard an epic ending slowly and terminating with a single (nose) keyboard note? :D
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
Depends on the quality of the music... based on the two songs relesed I did not preorder.
Will listen on Spotify and if I like what I hear I will buy it, if not....
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Thanks Rodrigo! Just what I needed. After hearing two less then "stellar" reviews from members I trust their opinion on, it was nice to read that review and has me very excited once again! It's still not what I had hoped for (FII 2 - :facepalm:) but this WILL ROCK! :metal
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Are there any bonus tracks or deluxe versions or anything? Or just the basic CD?
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I haven't listened to any spoilers. I just want to buy the album and take it all in at once without any pre-conceived notions.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
No, I won't.
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Me neither.
Or better, this will have for me the same approach I had with Flying Colors: Mild interest, heard it out of curiosity, then realized it how good it was and just had to buy it. For sure I won't do a blind purchase.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
Nope.
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I've made a lot of blind purchases. The best one ever being Nightwish's "Vehicle of Spirit" two concert dvd's and cds. I knew nothing about them before this, they are awesome!
Other blind purchases recently are;
Similitude of s Dream. NMB
Silent Assassins. Mike Lepond of SX
The Mission. Styx
Fantastic albums worth every penny!
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
Absolutely not.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
I guess in a round about way I will....because the only way I'm listening to the entire album is if it's on Apple Music....which I suspect it will be being the two singles are on it. But my $$ is going to Apple....not SOA
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
I guess in a round about way I will....because the only way I'm listening to the entire album is if it's on Apple Music....which I suspect it will be being the two singles are on it. But my $$ is going to Apple....not SOA
It'll filter through; they'll get theirs. It'll be $0.01 on the dollar but they'll get theirs. :) :)
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That review truly peaks my interest. I am as interested in the 'Jon Lord' rock sections as I am in the tech/proggy sections.
I also hope MP was able to reach down and pull out a few new fills like he always used to do with each new DT album. Something
that just makes you go :hefdaddy
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Are there any bonus tracks or deluxe versions or anything? Or just the basic CD?
There's a 2CD edition where the 2nd CD is the instrumental version of the album.. www.lasercd.com
And vinyl pressings of different colors if you are interested in that.
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I personally can't really take anything of value from a review like that.
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I saw that review posted on MP's Facebook, although it was almost over the top positive it ultimately got deleted and the poster banned because of this line.
The lyrics are a little predictable at times (‘beggin’ you to stay…comin’ your way…’
https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
Yes I am kidding
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https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
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I saw that review posted on MP's Facebook, although it was almost over the top positive it ultimately got deleted and the poster banned because of this line.
The lyrics are a little predictable at times (‘beggin’ you to stay…comin’ your way…’
Yes I am kidding
sad thing is, that i initially didn't see the "kidding part" and still wasn't overly surprised or shocked by the 1st (top) part of your post actually...
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https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
Yeah that got posted a page ago.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
No, but I will listen to it.
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Coming home is the 2nd track, signs of the time is the 3rd. The first is a longer prog metal track with strong middle eastern influence...
You got my attention...
Try as I might and as unexcited as I am thanks to external crap, I still would like to find something to like about this band and am keeping a relatively open mind.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
IT'S DAMN TRUE!
Here's a question that has been nagging me.
If Sons of Apollo isn't received as well as perhaps MP and DS want it to, or, if for some reason the chemistry breaks down with JSS (the points people made pages ago regarding the recording of the vocals is what I am referring to), do you think they pull a Dream Theater and replace JSS with someone else?
I mean no disrespect to JSS, but I'm just saying that if it doesn't work out (either with JSS, or the band as a whole), would MP get another guy, or simply fold the band?
I think there will be some scheduling conflicts and MP "unfortunately" won't be able to commit.
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https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
Yeah that got posted a page ago.
yup, sorry about that
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
100% no way, Jose.
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That review is so over the top good that I wonder if Portnoy wrote it. Reviewers need to remember that nothing is really THAT good so writing it up that way makes me ignore the whole thing.
"It is a statement – a declaration that these five stellar musicians intend to take over the planet, and it will not be a fair fight . . . the Sons of Apollo have launched their missile, and it is headed right at you"
Seriously, Mike ? :rollin
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Yea. I can’t take that review seriously at all.
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That's not a review. That's a press release.
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That review is so over the top good that I wonder if Portnoy wrote it. Reviewers need to remember that nothing is really THAT good so writing it up that way makes me ignore the whole thing.
"It is a statement – a declaration that these five stellar musicians intend to take over the planet, and it will not be a fair fight . . . the Sons of Apollo have launched their missile, and it is headed right at you"
Seriously, Mike ? :rollin
Yeah, that's not a review, it's a puff piece. In fact the style is almost identical to those early AMob press releases, where they wrote about kicking everyone's ass and taking no prisoners and so on. I doubt Mike himself wrote it but I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of his friends in the industry. No proper music journalist would write like that.
As for the chap above who said the nay-sayers will still buy it, another 'nope, no chance' from me. I would have, were it not for Sherinian's shenanigans (missed opportunity for a band name there). I'm very sensitive (perhaps too sensitive, but whatever, it's my issue) to "quirky humor" which is based on social class and how people make their living, so his "burger flipper" jab told me what I need to know about him. He's not getting any of my money.
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That's not a review. That's a press release.
It was written with all the objectivity of one of Derek's tweets.
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Wow, this tread :rollin
Just been catching up, you guys have been busy.
I don't think I've listened to a single album that MP has played on, since leaving DT (other than Nightmare by A7X actually, but soley because I'm an A7X fan). I can't say that I've ever fanboyed over any of the DT band members, past or present. I'm more of a Casey Crescenzo kinda guy :heart
I think the way that MP handles things is laughable but none of it really matters to me. I feel more inclined to check this out than anything else he has done, post-DT. I'm not expecting it to really rock my world (I can't imagine anything MP releases ever really will, at this point) but it might be enjoyable.
It's all just a lol-fest for me I guess. I find it fascinating sometimes that people can act a certain way and not seem to be able (or to want) to take a step back and see how that they may be perceived. I'm not on one side or the other as far as any of this is concerned. It's all just music, let that do the talking.
I'll check back in a few days now. Sure I'll at least have 200+ posts to catch up on.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
100% no way, Jose.
SMH :\
Way to stay open minded.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
100% no way, Jose.
SMH :
Way to stay open minded.
Being "open minded" doesn't enter into it. Nobody is saying they won't listen to it, they are saying they won't buy it.
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I try and keep coming back to the site (hopefully to get some DT news), but whenever the MP subject comes up, it's nothing but personal attacks against the guy.
For the most part, I think MP was certainly correct about this forum. Aside from a few people like bosk, there is no middle ground here at all. It's all anti-MP. Such a shame as without MP, DT would have been LONG SINCE forgotten about.
Oh well.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
100% no way, Jose.
SMH :
Way to stay open minded.
Being "open minded" doesn't enter into it. Nobody is saying they won't listen to it, they are saying they won't buy it.
OK, fair point, but if these people who are saying NO WAY will I buy it, wind up loving what they here, then what?
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I try and keep coming back to the site (hopefully to get some DT news), but whenever the MP subject comes up, it's nothing but personal attacks against the guy.
For the most part, I think MP was certainly correct about this forum. Aside from a few people like bosk, there is no middle ground here at all. It's all anti-MP. Such a shame as without MP, DT would have been LONG SINCE forgotten about.
Oh well.
(https://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/392/026/21b.jpg)
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I try and keep coming back to the site (hopefully to get some DT news), but whenever the MP subject comes up, it's nothing but personal attacks against the guy.
For the most part, I think MP was certainly correct about this forum. Aside from a few people like bosk, there is no middle ground here at all. It's all anti-MP. Such a shame as without MP, DT would have been LONG SINCE forgotten about.
Oh well.
No?
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
100% no way, Jose.
SMH :
Way to stay open minded.
Being "open minded" doesn't enter into it. Nobody is saying they won't listen to it, they are saying they won't buy it.
OK, fair point, but if these people who are saying NO WAY will I buy it, wind up loving what they here, then what?
I can answer only for myself: then I'll have a great album to listen to and Derek Sherinian will not have any of my money despite having put a lot of time and effort into making it. Which will in turn rebut MP's claim that it will be 'my loss' if I let DS's behaviour affect my decision to buy it.
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I try and keep coming back to the site (hopefully to get some DT news), but whenever the MP subject comes up, it's nothing but personal attacks against the guy.
For the most part, I think MP was certainly correct about this forum. Aside from a few people like bosk, there is no middle ground here at all. It's all anti-MP. Such a shame as without MP, DT would have been LONG SINCE forgotten about.
Oh well.
Well, Dave_Manchester already responded to the "open minded" part. Nothing to add. But as far as "personal attacks," being critical of something he has said or done or being critical of the music is not a personal attack. Being "open minded" means you are open to discussing both sides of an issue, and being open to hear the side you disagree with. Shutting out all criticism and wrongly labeling it as "personal attacks" is not open minded. If you don't like open, two-sided discussion, then you don't really understand why this forum exists.
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As much as I've disapproved of Mike's behavior after the breakup. That doesn't deter me from buying his music.
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Nothing to do with the fact that he thought he was going to join A7X of course, absolutely not. Strange that he didn't seem to need that break when A7X told him to take a hike and he went running back to DT "for the fans". Not surprisingly, they told him where to go.
This is exactly how I have always felt, but never wanted to post it on Mike's site. He was very vocal about how he was having the time of his life touring with A7X and it was obviously a much different experience than DT, and I honestly think that played a HUGE factor in Mike wanting to take a break from DT. I think he felt that if he wasn't with DT, then he would get the full time A7X gig.
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Sorry you feel that way, As I Am. That's not sarcasm, just so you know. However, I'm still listening to the album. Hell, when the lineup and name were officially announced, I even posted over there, I said, "Day one purchase" - then Derek started saying some questionable things and Mike's ego and behavior turned me away.
But more importantly, and Dave talked about this, is Derek's burger flipping comment. That's my line in the sand. I don't own too much of his music -- I own Blood of the Snake and Falling Into Infinity, and the PSMS concert -- but I won't be giving any more of my money to him. Simple as that. I'll play the album on Spotify, and maybe after 10 spins he'll earn half a cent, and I won't see them live. But that's because of my principles. I do still hope the rest of the album is good, and I may even put a few on my 'starred' playlist on Spotify (I'm old school, still have the starred label!), but unfortunately it won't be on my shelves unless I find it secondhand -- I won't buy it directly from them or brand new.
But I'm not calling for a boycott of him or asking he never be allowed to play music. I'm voting with my wallet. Simple as.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
I guess in a round about way I will....because the only way I'm listening to the entire album is if it's on Apple Music....which I suspect it will be being the two singles are on it. But my $$ is going to Apple....not SOA
It'll filter through; they'll get theirs. It'll be $0.01 on the dollar but they'll get theirs. :) :)
Maybe even less than that.
I'll never understand why some would rather give their money to a technology company for music rather than rewarding the professional musicians who created that music themselves.
Doesn't leave a lot of incentive for those that make music to make much of an investment in creating it I suppose. But I guess most of the horses left that barn a long time ago and fighting over chicken feed is all that's left.
But this is not even remotely on topic. Just looking at the bigger picture (so to speak.)
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Sorry you feel that way, As I Am. That's not sarcasm, just so you know. However, I'm still listening to the album. Hell, when the lineup and name were officially announced, I even posted over there, I said, "Day one purchase" - then Derek started saying some questionable things and Mike's ego and behavior turned me away.
But more importantly, and Dave talked about this, is Derek's burger flipping comment. That's my line in the sand. I don't own too much of his music -- I own Blood of the Snake and Falling Into Infinity, and the PSMS concert -- but I won't be giving any more of my money to him. Simple as that. I'll play the album on Spotify, and maybe after 10 spins he'll earn half a cent, and I won't see them live. But that's because of my principles. I do still hope the rest of the album is good, and I may even put a few on my 'starred' playlist on Spotify (I'm old school, still have the starred label!), but unfortunately it won't be on my shelves unless I find it secondhand -- I won't buy it directly from them or brand new.
But I'm not calling for a boycott of him or asking he never be allowed to play music. I'm voting with my wallet. Simple as.
Excellent post, Kattelox, I agree with all of it. Derek's comments started just as a little inappropriate, but then he crossed the line, and I just can't support someone who talks to people like that. I'll still listen to the album on Spotify, and I actually like Sings of the Time, but I'm not buying this album either. I just can't stand how childish Mike and Derek have been acting. And I actually feel bad for the other SOA guys, because they seem to be very nice guys and now their new, promising, band has just been outshined by all the crazy drama involving Mike and Derek.
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
I guess in a round about way I will....because the only way I'm listening to the entire album is if it's on Apple Music....which I suspect it will be being the two singles are on it. But my $$ is going to Apple....not SOA
It'll filter through; they'll get theirs. It'll be $0.01 on the dollar but they'll get theirs. :) :)
Maybe even less than that.
I'll never understand why some would rather give their money to a technology company for music rather than rewarding the professional musicians who created that music themselves.
I always make sure that as much of my money as possible goes to the artists themselves, if I've decided I like them and what they do. Sometimes (as in the recent case of a huge order I made with the band Swans) that will involve having their albums shipped over from the US rather than just using Amazon UK, which would have been a hell of a lot cheaper for me, but Michael Gira (the guy behind Swans) would have seen only a small percentage of the cash.
This is why, in this day and age of cheap streaming, artists like SoA can't avoid too many PR disasters if they want as many people as possible to buy their physical media, merchandise, concert tickets, etc. New bands in their position can't afford to take the attitude of "meh, your loss", because it literally isn't, it's theirs. Just as I will buy the expensive deluxe versions of albums in order to get cash to groups like (this week alone) Cradle of Filth or Godspeed You Black Emperor, so I'll choose to withhold it from bands like SoA if I feel its keyboard player is behaving like an ass.
It's never been more vital to the financial success of a band to have excellent PR than now, because you have to convince people not just to listen to your music (which is easily done these days), but to shell out for it too. Back on topic, that's why I was surprised MP didn't tell DS to knock it off, but instead persisted with "It's just his humor, lighten up or I'll ban you".
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I try and keep coming back to the site (hopefully to get some DT news), but whenever the MP subject comes up, it's nothing but personal attacks against the guy.
For the most part, I think MP was certainly correct about this forum. Aside from a few people like bosk, there is no middle ground here at all. It's all anti-MP. Such a shame as without MP, DT would have been LONG SINCE forgotten about.
Oh well.
I am having a hard time grasping the concept of this being an anti-MP forum when the vast majority of its members continued to follow MP's musical output after he left DT. Heck, many of us have even bought several of the albums he has been featured on and have even seen him live after the split. If you care to pay attention to this very thread, people were really and genuinely looking forward to what MP proclaimed would be a prog metal project. It wasn't until some actual music was released and DS started his Tweeter campaign that some people started voicing their valid concerns and criticism.
I also think you are grossly underestimating the importance of all the other DT members in the band's success and overall survival. There is a reason the band managed to do just fine without MP and there is also a reason the band probably wouldn't be able to continue its path if JP decided to call it quits.
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I try and keep coming back to the site (hopefully to get some DT news), but whenever the MP subject comes up, it's nothing but personal attacks against the guy.
For the most part, I think MP was certainly correct about this forum. Aside from a few people like bosk, there is no middle ground here at all. It's all anti-MP. Such a shame as without MP, DT would have been LONG SINCE forgotten about.
Oh well.
I am having a hard time grasping the concept of this being an anti-MP forum when the vast majority of its members continued to follow MP's musical output after he left DT. Heck, many of us have even bought several of the albums he has been featured on and have even seen him live after the split. If you care to pay attention to this very thread, people were really and genuinely looking forward to what MP proclaimed would be a prog metal project. It wasn't until some actual music was released and DS started his Tweeter campaign that some people started voicing their valid concerns and criticism.
I also think you are grossly underestimating the importance of all the other DT members in the band's success and overall survival. There is a reason the band managed to do just fine without MP and there is also a reason the band probably wouldn't be able to continue its path if JP decided to call it quits.
+1
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As much as I haven't liked Mike on social media since he left, I'd totally give him a reach-around for all his music. :lol
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Maybe MP should be like Nuno Bettencourt. He should see how much Rhihanna pays her drummer.
I bet it is as much as sons of apollo will make him.
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That's not a review. That's a press release.
It was written with all the objectivity of one of Derek's tweets.
Just read it. I think it was written by whoever writes Adrenaline Mob's lyrics. That "review" is hilarious.
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I actually thing it was the most "prog" review ever. Totally over the top and cheesy with an overly lengthy pointless introduction.
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I am having a hard time grasping the concept of this being an anti-MP forum when the vast majority of its members continued to follow MP's musical output after he left DT. Heck, many of us have even bought several of the albums he has been featured on and have even seen him live after the split. If you care to pay attention to this very thread, people were really and genuinely looking forward to what MP proclaimed would be a prog metal project. It wasn't until some actual music was released and DS started his Tweeter campaign that some people started voicing their valid concerns and criticism.
I also think you are grossly underestimating the importance of all the other DT members in the band's success and overall survival. There is a reason the band managed to do just fine without MP and there is also a reason the band probably wouldn't be able to continue its path if JP decided to call it quits.
Well said. Saying this is an anti-Portnoy forum really has no basis in reality if you are paying attention at all and actually read what people say, as opposed to being a knee jerk fan who has adopted Portnoy's personality trait of flipping out over the tinniest bit of criticism, most of which is fair (I say "most of which" because there will always be a few who take it too far).
Let's face it, there is no other forum on the internet where you will find this much legitimate discussion about Mike Portnoy in general, and the discussion is almost always fair. He gets kudos more than some realize, even from someone like me who hasn't been a fan of his personality for over 15 years. I give him props when he deserves it (I applauded that simulcast he did last year for TSOAD, for example), and, yes, I criticize him when he deserves it (which, unfortunately, is far too often).
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I try and keep coming back to the site (hopefully to get some DT news), but whenever the MP subject comes up, it's nothing but personal attacks against the guy.
For the most part, I think MP was certainly correct about this forum. Aside from a few people like bosk, there is no middle ground here at all. It's all anti-MP. Such a shame as without MP, DT would have been LONG SINCE forgotten about.
Oh well.
DT are still going, no? Yes, MP is a major part in the DT history, but that seems like you're undervaluing the other members.
This forum is hardly anti MP too, that's just ridiculous, plain and simple. Sounds like he would close down this forum too then if he had the chance if he says stuff like that.
I like the two new SOA songs quite a bit. Not sure if I'll purchase it though. I've supported MP away from DT and have purchased every AM album except the new one (even the covers EP), plus the first Winery Dogs album, both FC albums plus live DVD, plus the band he did with TMac too. I know that doesn't support them directly a lot of the time, but I'm not in the position to throw cash around for anything like I use to and as Kattlelox said, the behaviour from DS and MP lately has turned me off a little too, plain and simple.
It's a shame you feel that way and I'm sorry that you do.
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I just think it's weird they're releasing the not prog heavy songs when they're hyping up prog. I mean signs of time was proggish, but yeah.
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I'm not sorry at all for As I Am, since the guy has clearly shown over his stay here that he just can't stand any criticism towards MP. He reminds me of Stadler in a sense that when anything negative is said towards MP, they feel compelled to take a stance to the point of transforming what has really been said to have their way.
I already said it, but I hope that with the shutting down of MP.com, there won't be more people like that making it a hard time for us non-MP fanboys.
B.Lee
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It's everyone's right to express their opinion but it does feel like it's been page after page after page of exactly the same people saying exactly the same thing time after time after time.
One of the reasons Stadler may appear to be a lone voice is potential contributors feeling shut out due to the oppressive and claustrophobic feel that's been created.
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SMH :\
Way to stay open minded.
What the hell, man? I have enough of an open mind to choose who I want to support based on many factors, including how they act, and in this case the obnoxious attitude is why I choose to not support SoA and the sad part is that it hurts the other people who have nothing to do with it and are being dragged down with the ship.
What do you call people who just blindly follow and support an artist no matter what? If you want to talk about the OPPOSITE of being open-minded then that's it right there.
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SMH :\
Way to stay open minded.
What the hell, man? I have enough of an open mind to choose who I want to support based on many factors, including how they act, and in this case the obnoxious attitude is why I choose to not support SoA and the sad part is that it hurts the other people who have nothing to do with it and are being dragged down with the ship.
What do you call people who just blindly follow and support an artist no matter what? If you want to talk about the OPPOSITE of being open-minded then that's it right there.
I'll blindly follow an artist if I know how good they are, or they have a track record of putting out quality stuff. I also go by word of mouth. Thanks to DT forums I've gotten into Symphony X, Porcupine Tree, Nightwish, Haken etc. There are so many more I need to check out, but time and money are a factor.
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As much as I've disapproved of Mike's behavior after the breakup. That doesn't deter me from buying his music.
Same here. I don't think he's a terrible guy. I think it would be cool if Portnoy returned to Dream Theater. I don't think Sherenian's bad either. Before the Portnoy forum closed down, most of the recent negative posts in this thread were about Sherinian's dumb tweets. I'll buy an album they play on if I think it's good.
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It's everyone's right to express their opinion but it does feel like it's been page after page after page of exactly the same people saying exactly the same thing time after time after time.
One of the reasons Stadler may appear to be a lone voice is potential contributors feeling shut out due to the oppressive and claustrophobic feel that's been created.
No way! On this forum? Stadler is not a lone wolf, he is the leader of a pack of wolves who systematically jump on every people being critical of MP.
Yet, you're right when you say sometimes discussion is impossible due to the vey nature of some of the posters who won't listen to anyone having an opinion contrary to their own. BUT, at the end of the day, such posters are just a few on DTF as most try to be reasonable when posting.
B.Lee
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I can't remember who said it, but not too many posts back someone said Stadler is the only person continually expressing his particular view. (I think Stadler himself may have said something similar, but it's not him I'm thinking of.)
I'm not saying my view tallies completely with Stadler's - it doesn't, it lies somewhere between his and those who give the impression MP is the absolute living embodiment of a total twatbadger - but I do think there will be people with similar views who are, almost literally, scared off posting.
Not sure why I'm even bothering to post this, really, since I can't be bothered with the confrontation brought about by even just being a middle of the road voice in this thread :biggrin:
Anyway, hey, happy Thursday everyone. Nearly the weekend!
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While I do think Mike acts rashly at times, I have to say this:
I've never known a guy that cares so much about... well, everyone. He's really passionate, and really emotional, to a fault at times. But he's also a very kind and giving person.
I had absolutely no reason to expect him to even remember who I was, but I was surprised that he actually remembered my name - after meeting me 3 times. In 2014 I did the VIP thing for Neal Morse band (btw, if you want to support a band monetarily - this is the absolute best way to do so). And I said "I don't know if you remember me", and he looked me over for a second and said "Of course I do. It's Kim, right?". Blew my mind. And asking him for anything in the recent years has always been met with kindness and accomodation.
Asking him for the interview in April was met with a joke - he had seen the James interview, and noticed that James consistenly called me "Tim". He pointed that out, jokingly saying that I could only interview him if "he could call me Tim". First of all - he saw the interview I did - second of all - he noticed that James called me the wrong name... And I'm not someone who's been in his face or been in this to get them to know -me-, I've always enjoyed being the guy that helped others meet their idols and standing back watching them enjoy it. Mike was the first who -really- showed that he knew me. Now, it's a different story, since I've been in DTs face since I took over the world wide fan club (except for Mangini - who apparently refuses to remember who I am).
So while I do know that Mike can be viewed as abrasive - I also know him from another side. I know he's the real deal. It's not fake when he's passionate. It's not fake when he's emotional and hurt by personal attacks. He's simply a human being who happens to be a well known music artist, but he also knows very well what it is to be a fan, and is very down to earth. That's why I love these guys, all of them. I can have conversations with any of them, and they treat me as thought they're actually interested. It may be fake, it may be a face they put on, but they try to see "the people", not just fans.
Of course, this personal attachment does make it harder for me to do some of my tasks like reviewing albums and such. But at the same time, I know that they all know that it's kinda my job to be honest about my opinions, and they value it..... except for that one time... ;)
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Just watched the Coming Home video on Youtube again and I can't stop wondering about Bumblefoot playing riffs that we can't hear (at least I can't). Is it possible that this is not the final mix we're hearing, and that on album release it may sound different?
If I remember correctly that has been the case on the first AMob releases, right?
It wouldn't bug me if I only HEARD the song (I like it), but SEEING him play something I am unable to hear makes me think I'm missing something...
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can't support Derek after his "burger BS" with my money neither.
it most likely won't cause him to be flipping those burgers in the future, but the principle is principle.
i'm only sorry for the rest of the guys in the band being affected by that.
:tdwn
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I can't remember who said it, but not too many posts back someone said Stadler is the only person continually expressing his particular view. (I think Stadler himself may have said something similar, but it's not him I'm thinking of.)
I'm not saying my view tallies completely with Stadler's - it doesn't, it lies somewhere between his and those who give the impression MP is the absolute living embodiment of a total twatbadger - but I do think there will be people with similar views who are, almost literally, scared off posting.
Not sure why I'm even bothering to post this, really, since I can't be bothered with the confrontation brought about by even just being a middle of the road voice in this thread :biggrin:
Anyway, hey, happy Thursday everyone. Nearly the weekend!
Fair game, but scared by DTF? Come on, i's just an online forum, you're protected by your screen. Just kidding of course. Happy Thursday too.
B.Lee
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While I do think Mike acts rashly at times, I have to say this:
I've never known a guy that cares so much about... well, everyone. He's really passionate, and really emotional, to a fault at times. But he's also a very kind and giving person.
I had absolutely no reason to expect him to even remember who I was, but I was surprised that he actually remembered my name - after meeting me 3 times. In 2014 I did the VIP thing for Neal Morse band (btw, if you want to support a band monetarily - this is the absolute best way to do so). And I said "I don't know if you remember me", and he looked me over for a second and said "Of course I do. It's Kim, right?". Blew my mind. And asking him for anything in the recent years has always been met with kindness and accomodation.
Asking him for the interview in April was met with a joke - he had seen the James interview, and noticed that James consistenly called me "Tim". He pointed that out, jokingly saying that I could only interview him if "he could call me Tim". First of all - he saw the interview I did - second of all - he noticed that James called me the wrong name... And I'm not someone who's been in his face or been in this to get them to know -me-, I've always enjoyed being the guy that helped others meet their idols and standing back watching them enjoy it. Mike was the first who -really- showed that he knew me. Now, it's a different story, since I've been in DTs face since I took over the world wide fan club (except for Mangini - who apparently refuses to remember who I am).
So while I do know that Mike can be viewed as abrasive - I also know him from another side. I know he's the real deal. It's not fake when he's passionate. It's not fake when he's emotional and hurt by personal attacks. He's simply a human being who happens to be a well known music artist, but he also knows very well what it is to be a fan, and is very down to earth. That's why I love these guys, all of them. I can have conversations with any of them, and they treat me as thought they're actually interested. It may be fake, it may be a face they put on, but they try to see "the people", not just fans.
Of course, this personal attachment does make it harder for me to do some of my tasks like reviewing albums and such. But at the same time, I know that they all know that it's kinda my job to be honest about my opinions, and they value it..... except for that one time... ;)
As a somewhat frequent critic of the man, I will say that none of this really surprises me. It reminds me of a lady I worked with a long time ago. She was, let's say, difficult to get along with, but she had a handful or two of close friends who thought she was the greatest thing, and to them, she was. She would do anything for them, which I saw firsthand (her and I did not care for each other, but several of her close friends were also close friends of mine, so we often tolerated each other), but if you were someone she didn't care for, look out, because she would be aggressively be a raging bitch to you. It was astonishing to see how someone could be so nice to someone one minute and then flip the switch and be so mean to someone else the next.
So, while there are differences, Mike Portnoy, in some ways, reminds me of her. To the people that are in his corner, Mike Portnoy is the greatest thing ever, and he treats them well, but to those who have that audacity to not back him up 100% on everything, you are crap, and he shows little to no regard for you. If nothing else, it's fascination to watch.
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They have made it so difficult in the past week or two to just discuss the music and not mention the whole weird social media drama-laden promo cycle.
Derek's statements and Mike's blowing up were incredibly silly, but I'm not personally offended nor withdrawing support - they're not hurting me by that behavior, they're hurting themselves. Yes, Mike Portnoy is Mike Portnoy and he'll always be doing these things, but he never claimed to be any other way. Frankly, I do appreciate musicians talking about the negatives of the industry and having a fanbase, but, having said all that... it almost gives me second hand embarrassment to see this grown man still taking criticism so poorly. If people see you take shots at a website, or a fan, or a fan forum, it's never going to make you look like the bigger man, no matter how right you are about them (Blabbermouth really is pretty terrible) and how funny your comment is. Furthermore, you can't be a friend with Jordan Rudess and let your keyboardist take shots at him through fucking Twitter.
Furtherfurthermore, Derek's comments are just so cheap. You can't assemble a band for maximum likeability and fandom crossover, write extremely inoffensive songs with almost no creative risks and call yourselves the new kings of prog. Even if you're joking. If you're inviting people to compare you to Dream Theater and other prog bands, prepare for the opportunity that they'll say your music isn't all that prog, and that Dream Theater is better.
I have liked one and a half out of the last five DT albums, but they are still doing their thing and taking different turns and insisting on things people hate about them, because they know those are the things their core fanbase loves about them. When Derek says there's no weird vocals or weird keyboards or weird shit on the SoA album... what is left? Because right now their songs sound even more like "look at my fingers gooooo" than Dream Theater. The only draw is the players and the singer, because the solos and the riffs are pasted onto beige metal songs about ~life and stuff~. I don't fucking care about John Petrucci's Disney musical but he went out there and just fucking did his cheesy thing, you know? SoA sounds pleasant. Nice. Good driving music. Not kings of prog music.
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That prog report review is ridiculous, it must be someone who is friendly with the band surely. Can't really argue with what they say about the songs themselves as I haven't heard them. It's the other hyperbole they come out with "there's some very famous people in this band" really? Who? Mike Portnoy is probably the most well known and even he is not exactly a household name. There was a comment along the lines that they are causing an absolute frenzy of excitement in the rock music scene, absolute nonsense. They also say something like "the word supergroup is overused but you could hardly imagine a more stellar line up" again, really? Mike Portnoy is hands down a great hall of fame drummer so no argument that they have a stellar drummer but Ron Thal, Soto and Sherinian? I think I could very easily imagine much more impressive line up. Whether you can get them is another matter of course but aside from MP and Sheehan, you would not put the others anywhere near the top of their respective fields in terms of playing or songwriting.
To add balance to the perceived bashing of MP, I will say this. The guy is my favourite drummer of all time, he was a founder member and one of the main driving forces of probably my favourite band of all time. I had the utmost respect for everything he did for us during his time in Dream Theater, the way he rotated set lists from tour to tour so you didn't hear the same songs tour after tour or even from show to show. I loved how he interacted with fans online including on his forum, the free fanclub cds. It all generated goodwill so that when they began to do bigger headline shows, you felt extra happy that DT absolutely deserved their success as they, and Mike in particular, did so much for us. Above and beyond other bands.
Unfortunately, since he left Dream Theater, there have been numerous ill-advised episodes that have eroded some of the respect I had for him. I'm sure he couldn't care less about whether some nobody on the internet respects him or not but it has eroded that part of me that had the goodwill where I would go out and buy his stuff just to support him. Now I will only buy his stuff if I hear it and think it's great.
Basically then, yeah, if SOA is brilliant, I will buy it but I will no longer buy it just because it is a Mike Portnoy project.
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Just watched the Coming Home video on Youtube again and I can't stop wondering about Bumblefoot playing riffs that we can't hear (at least I can't). Is it possible that this is not the final mix we're hearing, and that on album release it may sound different?
If I remember correctly that has been the case on the first AMob releases, right?
It wouldn't bug me if I only HEARD the song (I like it), but SEEING him play something I am unable to hear makes me think I'm missing something...
I think it probably is the final mix. I mean this album drops in less than a month, right? It should definitely be mixed and mastered by now and going into production to stock retail with the physical release.
I think the struggle to hear the guitar riffs comes from (1) the overly distorted kinda treble-like qualities of the bass guitar and (2) Derek's distorted key tones. When they riff on that main groove in the song, it sounds like all three guys are down in that similar register (with the bass down the octave) and the guitar gets washed out a bit. Add into that the drums being pretty darn loud in the mix and I think the guitar just got pushed back in the mix.
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The way this project has been handled has been a cluster fuck since day one. The debacle with the "leaked" band members was the first red flag and that was on MP. Once the band members were officially announce I was personally underwhelmed. You form a prog metal band with 3/5 of the band who really have no prog back ground? Then the songs come out and I'm underwhelmed again. Soto is being restrained for some reason. Throw that in with Derek's asshole comments on Twatter, the shut down of the MP forum, the censoring of any criticism, etc. has really just left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not touching this with a 10 foot pole.
This isn't all on MP. He's still my favorite drummer and I still love Flying Colors and his work with Neal but man this whole thing has been handled so poorly that it's turned into a complete dumpster fire.
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For the sake of levity, imagine every poster doing this at the start of each post for the last few pages.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/113JWfVDR9p5PG/giphy.gif)
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For the sake of levity, imagine every poster doing this at the start of each post for the last few pages.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/113JWfVDR9p5PG/giphy.gif)
:rollin :rollin
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Sorry you feel that way, As I Am. That's not sarcasm, just so you know. However, I'm still listening to the album. Hell, when the lineup and name were officially announced, I even posted over there, I said, "Day one purchase" - then Derek started saying some questionable things and Mike's ego and behavior turned me away.
But more importantly, and Dave talked about this, is Derek's burger flipping comment. That's my line in the sand. I don't own too much of his music -- I own Blood of the Snake and Falling Into Infinity, and the PSMS concert -- but I won't be giving any more of my money to him. Simple as that. I'll play the album on Spotify, and maybe after 10 spins he'll earn half a cent, and I won't see them live. But that's because of my principles. I do still hope the rest of the album is good, and I may even put a few on my 'starred' playlist on Spotify (I'm old school, still have the starred label!), but unfortunately it won't be on my shelves unless I find it secondhand -- I won't buy it directly from them or brand new.
But I'm not calling for a boycott of him or asking he never be allowed to play music. I'm voting with my wallet. Simple as.
Excellent post, Kattelox, I agree with all of it. Derek's comments started just as a little inappropriate, but then he crossed the line, and I just can't support someone who talks to people like that. I'll still listen to the album on Spotify, and I actually like Sings of the Time, but I'm not buying this album either. I just can't stand how childish Mike and Derek have been acting. And I actually feel bad for the other SOA guys, because they seem to be very nice guys and now their new, promising, band has just been outshined by all the crazy drama involving Mike and Derek.
How do you handle comedians you don't like? Do you run around telling everyone how much you dislike Andrew Dice Clay, and how you're never buying another of his CDs again? Or do you bother telling anyone who will listen how "childish" Don Rickles is for his brand of humor? This is the guy that walked up to a table with Adam Sandler and Steve Buscemi, said hello to Adam, and turned to Steve and said "Ooosh, someone needs braces!" (A direct quote from Sandler, on the Stern show).
I get it if it isn't how someone else chooses to live their life - honestly, I generally think Derek is entertaining, but that kind of humor isn't my thing - but I don't get how we can call names on people for something we don't like (and I have to be honest; I don't see how calling Mike and Derek "childish" is commenting on the music and not making it personal). Derek retweeted the tweet that indicated it was largely tweaking the fans, not DT, and as I have said before, since DT hasn't said a word - not a peep - we don't at all know how they feel about it. Why should we be up in arms if they aren't? This is like telling someone "you should be offended!" Let them decide.
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For the sake of levity, imagine every poster doing this at the start of each post for the last few pages.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/113JWfVDR9p5PG/giphy.gif)
That was my breakfast (including the cigarette). My hair is better, though.
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I know this was to gzarruk and not me but since he and I seem to be in full agreement:
How do you handle comedians you don't like? Do you run around telling everyone how much you dislike Andrew Dice Clay, and how you're never buying another of his CDs again? Or do you bother telling anyone who will listen how "childish" Don Rickles is for his brand of humor? This is the guy that walked up to a table with Adam Sandler and Steve Buscemi, said hello to Adam, and turned to Steve and said "Ooosh, someone needs braces!" (A direct quote from Sandler, on the Stern show).
Stadler, you gotta stop with analogies. This isn't a good one. A comedian I don't like is not somebody I'm going to follow to begin with. Second, comedians make their living by being smartasses. Musicians don't, unless you're Ted Nugent (who doesn't make a living off it so much as marinates in it like a pig in shit), and like I've already said, I don't support him financially in any way. If I don't follow a comedian or don't consider myself a fan, I'm not going to discuss them. However, I *am* a huge fan of Mike Portnoy, and to a lesser degree Derek Sherinian. I like to talk about their music and what they're up to with fans. I don't go to them to hear smartass quips about their fans. Whatever point you're trying to make here, it's lost on me.
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I actually thing it was the most "prog" review ever. Totally over the top and cheesy with an overly lengthy pointless introduction.
HAHA. That got a laugh out loud.
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Stadler, you gotta stop with analogies. This isn't a good one.
This. And as I have already had to say too many times, you need to stop with the long posts telling people how they should or shouldn't feel about Mike's/Derek's conduct. You are repeating the same off-topic things over and over and derailing the discussion.
As for calling their conduct "childish," that's a bit tricky. I mean, arguably, it is bordering on getting personal at that point. If (hypothetically), Kattelox posted something like, "Stadler's posts in this thread are just getting to the point of being childish," I'd probably step in and tell him to stop doing that. But here's the distinction: Mike and Derek's conduct is out there for mass consumption because they are actively putting it out there. And a good many people have a problem with it. Within relatively respectful boundaries, I'm going to allow people to comment on that. I think it is fair to do so. And I think it is fair game since, again, it is out there in the public. Going further and commenting on Mike's character in general would NOT be cool. But whether criticizing or praising, commenting no his specific words and actions is fair game. So stop trying to tell people what they can and can't feel about it. People are entitled to their opinions on either side and are entitled to post them, within reasonable limits. If you don't like where I draw the line of what those "reasonable limits" are, I acknowledge that it is somewhat subjective, and I'm sorry you don't agree. But that's the call I've made, and I feel it is the most fair and best accomplishes the goals of this forum.
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I'm not sorry at all for As I Am, since the guy has clearly shown over his stay here that he just can't stand any criticism towards MP. He reminds me of Stadler in a sense that when anything negative is said towards MP, they feel compelled to take a stance to the point of transforming what has really been said to have their way.
I already said it, but I hope that with the shutting down of MP.com, there won't be more people like that making it a hard time for us non-MP fanboys.
B.Lee
You misunderstand; I don't at all want to "have my way". That's exactly the opposite of what I want. I want everyone to have their own say and be done with it. If you don't like Derek's humor, stay away, don't buy, think it's childish, whatever. It's the incessant and constant "Mike's being a DICK! but we're fair and you're a fanboy if you don't see that!" nonsense that I'm on about. This is not a totally anti-MP place, as Bosk rightly says, but it's not 50-50 either. I can not particularly care for the technique, but not reject it out of hand and not be a "fanboy". I've made no bones that I like Mike, and I felt (and still feel) that he's getting the short end of the stick as much as he's not, but that doesn't mean I think he's perfect or that anything he does is excusable. We can have nuance and middle ground.
I offer in the counter because it's there, and any opinion HAS to account for all the facts on the table, not just the ones that fit the opinion. You can't look at things from only one side, and I am a little uncomfortable with trying to guess how people think (or thought). I don't know what Mike's mindset was like with A7X, and so I don't think it at all appropriate to say that "he left DT thinking he had a bigger, better gig and it didn't pan out and now he's bitter". That's recklessly speculative, in my book. But as for the rest, I don't disagree with most of the comments, at heart. I don't think Derek is terribly funny with the comments. It's not at all my kind of humor in a public setting. My friends and I are BRUTAL to each other, but it stays in the group and it's not for others to participate in. Once I put the two and two together on the "Wiz" thing, I thought it was something that, if it really was a joke, you say directly to the person, not as a third party tweet for all to see. (Remember, I'm the guy that thinks Twitter is going to be the end of society as we know it.)
So please don't try to superimpose what you THINK I'm trying to do with what is actually happening.
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Back to SoA, the album comes out on October 20. I'm running a marathon on Oct 22, and while I'm usually very particular about the soundtrack I listen to while running, and usually go for albums that I know from start to finish, I'm thinking of making an exception. I'll probably listen to the full album at the start of the race, and leave the stuff I know better for the second half of it. I think the four albums will be:
Psychotic Symphony
Power Windows
Images and Words
The New Mythology Suite.
That should get me to the finish line in just under four hours.
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Stadler, you gotta stop with analogies. This isn't a good one.
This. And as I have already had to say too many times, you need to stop with the long posts telling people how they should or shouldn't feel about Mike's/Derek's conduct. You are repeating the same off-topic things over and over and derailing the discussion.
As for calling their conduct "childish," that's a bit tricky. I mean, arguably, it is bordering on getting personal at that point. If (hypothetically), Kattelox posted something like, "Stadler's posts in this thread are just getting to the point of being childish," I'd probably step in and tell him to stop doing that. But here's the distinction: Mike and Derek's conduct is out there for mass consumption because they are actively putting it out there. And a good many people have a problem with it. Within relatively respectful boundaries, I'm going to allow people to comment on that. I think it is fair to do so. And I think it is fair game since, again, it is out there in the public. Going further and commenting on Mike's character in general would NOT be cool. But whether criticizing or praising, commenting no his specific words and actions is fair game. So stop trying to tell people what they can and can't feel about it. People are entitled to their opinions on either side and are entitled to post them, within reasonable limits. If you don't like where I draw the line of what those "reasonable limits" are, I acknowledge that it is somewhat subjective, and I'm sorry you don't agree. But that's the call I've made, and I feel it is the most fair and best accomplishes the goals of this forum.
I asked a question. I've said now four times that I am NOT trying to tell anyone how to think or to act or to feel. I really am not. BUT, I feel like if you are interested in debate, it's not unfair to point out that Derek DID indicate he was joking. So did Mike. I'm not at all telling people how to think, but I think it's fair to ask how the information that contradicts what they are saying fits into what they DO think.
As for your lines, I have no problem with them, and I've said that before. I get the distinction you're making and don't disagree with it. I think what gets lost in my position is that I ALSO believe that if Mike or Derek put it out there, they should accept the consequences of that. If people don't like it, they can't blame the people. I get that. I'm a "tend your own garden" kind of guy. But it works on both sides. I was responding to the idea that was presented in gzarruk's post that "I just can't support someone who talks to people like that." It is my opinion that it is confusing to say "I don't like how that guy is talking about people" then turning around and calling them names. I am NOT saying he can't, or shouldn't, just asking how it gets reconciled. If we don't like the comedian example (which was just the most obvious, and since Derek indicated that he was joking, I thought it appropriate), we can use other musicians if we want. Is it fair to ask if anyone has boycotted Sammy Hagar's records for all the shit he's talked about Dave? Or better yet, boycotted Eminem? https://flavorwire.com/200333/the-30-harshest-musician-on-musician-insults-in-history (I post that to inject some funny; some of those are hilarious, and hopefully you will all note that probably 27 of the 30 are some unknown, club musician talking about someone that plays arenas on the daily. :P).
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Back to SoA, the album comes out on October 20. I'm running a marathon on Oct 22, and while I'm usually very particular about the soundtrack I listen to while running, and usually go for albums that I know from start to finish, I'm thinking of making an exception. I'll probably listen to the full album at the start of the race, and leave the stuff I know better for the second half of it. I think the four albums will be:
Psychotic Symphony
Power Windows
Images and Words
The New Mythology Suite.
That should get me to the finish line in just under four hours.
Yeah, for such a long race, having one new album in the mix should work nicely by giving you something new to shake things up, while not having you bogged down the entire time with something unfamiliar. I might put it second if it were me, but sounds like a good plan either way.
Stadler, you gotta stop with analogies. This isn't a good one.
This. And as I have already had to say too many times, you need to stop with the long posts telling people how they should or shouldn't feel about Mike's/Derek's conduct. You are repeating the same off-topic things over and over and derailing the discussion.
As for calling their conduct "childish," that's a bit tricky. I mean, arguably, it is bordering on getting personal at that point. If (hypothetically), Kattelox posted something like, "Stadler's posts in this thread are just getting to the point of being childish," I'd probably step in and tell him to stop doing that. But here's the distinction: Mike and Derek's conduct is out there for mass consumption because they are actively putting it out there. And a good many people have a problem with it. Within relatively respectful boundaries, I'm going to allow people to comment on that. I think it is fair to do so. And I think it is fair game since, again, it is out there in the public. Going further and commenting on Mike's character in general would NOT be cool. But whether criticizing or praising, commenting no his specific words and actions is fair game. So stop trying to tell people what they can and can't feel about it. People are entitled to their opinions on either side and are entitled to post them, within reasonable limits. If you don't like where I draw the line of what those "reasonable limits" are, I acknowledge that it is somewhat subjective, and I'm sorry you don't agree. But that's the call I've made, and I feel it is the most fair and best accomplishes the goals of this forum.
I asked a question. I've said now four times that I am NOT trying to tell anyone how to think or to act or to feel. I really am not. BUT, I feel like if you are interested in debate, it's not unfair to point out that Derek DID indicate he was joking. So did Mike. I'm not at all telling people how to think, but I think it's fair to ask how the information that contradicts what they are saying fits into what they DO think.
As for your lines, I have no problem with them, and I've said that before. I was responding to the idea that was presented in gzarruk's post that "I just can't support someone who talks to people like that." It is my opinion that it is confusing to say "I don't like how that guy is talking about people" then turning around and calling them names. I am NOT saying he can't, or shouldn't, just asking how it gets reconciled. If we don't like the comedian example (which was just the most obvious, and since Derek indicated that he was joking, I thought it appropriate), we can use other musicians if we want. Is it fair to ask if anyone has boycotted Sammy Hagar's records for all the shit he's talked about Dave? Or better yet, boycotted Eminem? https://flavorwire.com/200333/the-30-harshest-musician-on-musician-insults-in-history (I post that to inject some funny; some of those are hilarious, and hopefully you will all note that probably 27 of the 30 are some unknown, club musician talking about someone that plays arenas on the daily. :P).
Yes, you've pointed it out. And that was fine. The first time. You don't need to KEEP pointing it out and shouting down everyone who posts that they don't like something Mike or Derek have done. It's getting old, and so is having to constantly jump in to try to keep the discussion on track every time you derail it.
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It is my opinion that it is confusing to say "I don't like how that guy is talking about people" then turning around and calling them names.
I think bosk touched on that earlier when he was talking about the net consequences of fans dissing an artist vs. the artist dissing fans.
Is it fair to ask if anyone has boycotted Sammy Hagar's records for all the shit he's talked about Dave? Or better yet, boycotted Eminem?
It's not only fair to ask, it's fair to boycott if a given individual doesn't want to financially support that artist. There's a hundred valid reasons for not wanting to support Eminem, but I do, because the benefits to supporting him and listening to his music outweigh the cons for me personally.
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You misunderstand; I don't at all want to "have my way". That's exactly the opposite of what I want. I want everyone to have their own say and be done with it. If you don't like Derek's humor, stay away. It's the incessant and constant "Mike's being a DICK! but we're fair and you're a fanboy if you don't see that!" nonsense that I'm on about. This is not a totally anti-MP place, as Bosk rightly says, but it's not 50-50 either.
I offer in the counter because it's there, and any opinion HAS to account for all the facts on the table, not just the ones that fit the opinion. You can't look at things from only one side, and I am a little uncomfortable with trying to guess how people think (or thought). I don't know what Mike's mindset was like with A7X, and so I don't think it at all appropriate to say that "he left DT thinking he had a bigger, better gig and it didn't pan out and now he's bitter". That's recklessly speculative, in my book. But as for the rest, I don't disagree with most of the comments, at heart. I don't think Derek is terribly funny with the comments. It's not at all my kind of humor in a public setting. My friends and I are BRUTAL to each other, but it stays in the group and it's not for others to participate in. Once I put the two and two together on the "Wiz" thing, I thought it was something that, if it really was a joke, you say directly to the person, not as a third party tweet for all to see. (Remember, I'm the guy that thinks Twitter is going to be the end of society as we know it.)
So please don't try to superimpose what you THINK I'm trying to do with what is actually happening.
[/quote]
Why would we be shooting for 50-50? What if 75% truly don't enjoy what he's currently up to, do their opinions not matter? Conversely, was it 50-50 at mp.com for DT related topics (when they were even allowed to be discussed)? I'd argue that it's far closer to that midpoint here than over there. The Astonishing was not overly well received here, but it was openly bashed and mocked at mp.com (and allowed). All anyone should really care about is whether the guy is being treated fairly. To that end, I think it's a good thing that we have members like you in this community. That does not mean the art he creates is above criticism, though.
As far as the A7X comments - while no one I've seen has offered definitive proof, the whole situation just didn't look good for Mike. The timeline of events does lend credence to certain theories so I'm not sure it's 'recklessly speculative'. Certainly not fact, and shouldn't be conveyed as such, either.
Keep on keepin' on
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I asked a question. I've said now four times that I am NOT trying to tell anyone how to think or to act or to feel. I really am not. BUT, I feel like if you are interested in debate, it's not unfair to point out that Derek DID indicate he was joking. So did Mike. I'm not at all telling people how to think, but I think it's fair to ask how the information that contradicts what they are saying fits into what they DO think.
Where did Derek indicate that he was joking? I saw his retweet of someone saying "this is going to piss off DTF" but nothing that actually says he's joking. He may well be, but to be honest I don't care. Just because you add "just joking" to something, it doesn't necessarily mean that what you said isn't still kinda nasty. I really don't care if he's doing it because he hates DT, he's cool with or indifferent to DT but wants to piss off their fans, or if it's just because he thinks this is good marketing. It's all equally distasteful to me.
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I'm not sorry at all for As I Am, since the guy has clearly shown over his stay here that he just can't stand any criticism towards MP. He reminds me of Stadler in a sense that when anything negative is said towards MP, they feel compelled to take a stance to the point of transforming what has really been said to have their way.
I already said it, but I hope that with the shutting down of MP.com, there won't be more people like that making it a hard time for us non-MP fanboys.
B.Lee
You misunderstand; I don't at all want to "have my way". That's exactly the opposite of what I want. I want everyone to have their own say and be done with it. If you don't like Derek's humor, stay away, don't buy, think it's childish, whatever. It's the incessant and constant "Mike's being a DICK! but we're fair and you're a fanboy if you don't see that!" nonsense that I'm on about. This is not a totally anti-MP place, as Bosk rightly says, but it's not 50-50 either. I can not particularly care for the technique, but not reject it out of hand and not be a "fanboy". I've made no bones that I like Mike, and I felt (and still feel) that he's getting the short end of the stick as much as he's not, but that doesn't mean I think he's perfect or that anything he does is excusable. We can have nuance and middle ground.
I offer in the counter because it's there, and any opinion HAS to account for all the facts on the table, not just the ones that fit the opinion. You can't look at things from only one side, and I am a little uncomfortable with trying to guess how people think (or thought). I don't know what Mike's mindset was like with A7X, and so I don't think it at all appropriate to say that "he left DT thinking he had a bigger, better gig and it didn't pan out and now he's bitter". That's recklessly speculative, in my book. But as for the rest, I don't disagree with most of the comments, at heart. I don't think Derek is terribly funny with the comments. It's not at all my kind of humor in a public setting. My friends and I are BRUTAL to each other, but it stays in the group and it's not for others to participate in. Once I put the two and two together on the "Wiz" thing, I thought it was something that, if it really was a joke, you say directly to the person, not as a third party tweet for all to see. (Remember, I'm the guy that thinks Twitter is going to be the end of society as we know it.)
So please don't try to superimpose what you THINK I'm trying to do with what is actually happening.
Sorry to misunderstand you, Stadler, but, frankly, you won't have me seeing you any other way. So, let's leave it at that. And I mean no disrespect to the man as I don't know you as a person, just as a forumer.
B.Lee
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Why would we be shooting for 50-50? What if 75% truly don't enjoy what he's currently up to, do their opinions not matter? Conversely, was it 50-50 at mp.com for DT related topics (when they were even allowed to be discussed)? I'd argue that it's far closer to that midpoint here than over there. The Astonishing was not overly well received here, but it was openly bashed and mocked at mp.com (and allowed). All anyone should really care about is whether the guy is being treated fairly. To that end, I think it's a good thing that we have members like you in this community. That does not mean the art he creates is above criticism, though.
Because if you're trying to be fair, and if you're not voting, the opinions of the 25% are no less valid (all things being equal) than the 75%. Numbers don't indicate "right" or "wrong". It wasn't 50-50 at mp.com either. Not sure how that matters; the same standards ought to apply (given that mp.com is run by a band member, this place is not), so any criticisms would likely apply there as well. I'm not at all sticking up for that place in terms of administration (some of you might be surprised at my real feelings about that place; having said that, I loved the community and there are a number of good solid people that were there, most of whom are now, thankfully, here). I don't mean "50-50" in terms of "50% are pro-Mike and 50% are against". I meant "50-50" in terms of accepting where the line between the 75% and the 25% are. As we have seen in politics, when the number shift, so tend the lines to shift.
I don't at all think the art is above criticism. Just the opposite; I think that is where I would put my primary focus (no, not telling others they have to do the same). On the MP.com site I myself said the following:
I really really liked [Coming Home], but my initial concerns are starting to fester: I'm not sure JSS is the right man for the job. I get that art is all about choices, and I want to hear SONS OF APOLLO'S choices, not mine, but for me, the magic of good PROG metal is not a harsh scream, but soaring melodic vocals, and that ain't here. (Think of "Hallowed Be Thy Name", where Dickinson holds that note over the intro, and it rises and gets cleaner).
For example: 2:40-ish: cool prog metal break coming out of a sick solo by Ron Thal. Following that, I'm waiting for a soaring, melodic vocal over the top of everything, and we get... a generic metal scream. Four minute song and there were, I think, three of the same. I don't know. It just seems so epic and so over-the-top except for the vocals, which, while certainly technically good, just seem so... one-note.
[I'm] going to give this a shot for sure, as the instrumentation is everything I'm looking for. If I'm being honest with myself, though, I just wish there was more Steve Perry and less Ronnie Dio.
I was extremely critical of AMob (honestly, if you told me that was a new band ala Spinal Tap, I would believe you 100%).
As far as the A7X comments - while no one I've seen has offered definitive proof, the whole situation just didn't look good for Mike. The timeline of events does lend credence to certain theories so I'm not sure it's 'recklessly speculative'. Certainly not fact, and shouldn't be conveyed as such, either.
Keep on keepin' on
It didn't look good for Mike, and certainly if you account for what the guys in A7X said. It's just my experience that nothing is black or white. Maybe it's my bias - trying to be fair here - but in my 50 years, virtually nothing (except maybe my love for my daughter) has been so cut and dry, so one-sided, that there haven't been competing forces, emotions, and realities to deal with. I would suspect it is similar for a guy with multiple bands, a demanding job that requires both constant creativity (the strategic) AND attention to detail (the tactical), and to maintain balance with a family (and all that entails). If that's wrong, well, I'll own it. But it's informing where I'm coming from.
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Here's a counterpoint to Stadler, from Mike's Twitter. Someone tweeted why doesn't SoA release a 10 minute prog song as their single (after all, they're the kings of prog, prog metal missile heading straight at you, taking over the world, arenas, a frenzy in the rock and metal world, etc.), and this was Mike's response:
"Really??
GnR was a multi platinum band with complete control over radio...
SOA hasn't even released its 1st album....Get real!"
... then his followers come back with, "Fuck this troll! Don't feed the trolls! Bell end! Don't listen to him! People don't understand how the music business works!" It's not a bad question either, if they're kings of prog, release a prog single. But the band has this attitude of, "We can do anything, we're taking over, this is gonna BLOW YOUR MIND!" so it's puzzling in the age of the Internet that Mike thinks radio control means a lick of spit and that people should "get real." Point being, Mike encourages/doesn't mind attacks or criticism - as long as they aren't directed at him. And that is how you can tell someone is insecure.
EDIT: Darn, I was going to delete this for the better good but people responded. So here ya go.
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Maybe I'm just too tired, but why was GnR mentioned?
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But... How are they a troll?
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I'm not sorry at all for As I Am, since the guy has clearly shown over his stay here that he just can't stand any criticism towards MP. He reminds me of Stadler in a sense that when anything negative is said towards MP, they feel compelled to take a stance to the point of transforming what has really been said to have their way.
I already said it, but I hope that with the shutting down of MP.com, there won't be more people like that making it a hard time for us non-MP fanboys.
B.Lee
You misunderstand; I don't at all want to "have my way". That's exactly the opposite of what I want. I want everyone to have their own say and be done with it. If you don't like Derek's humor, stay away, don't buy, think it's childish, whatever. It's the incessant and constant "Mike's being a DICK! but we're fair and you're a fanboy if you don't see that!" nonsense that I'm on about. This is not a totally anti-MP place, as Bosk rightly says, but it's not 50-50 either. I can not particularly care for the technique, but not reject it out of hand and not be a "fanboy". I've made no bones that I like Mike, and I felt (and still feel) that he's getting the short end of the stick as much as he's not, but that doesn't mean I think he's perfect or that anything he does is excusable. We can have nuance and middle ground.
I offer in the counter because it's there, and any opinion HAS to account for all the facts on the table, not just the ones that fit the opinion. You can't look at things from only one side, and I am a little uncomfortable with trying to guess how people think (or thought). I don't know what Mike's mindset was like with A7X, and so I don't think it at all appropriate to say that "he left DT thinking he had a bigger, better gig and it didn't pan out and now he's bitter". That's recklessly speculative, in my book. But as for the rest, I don't disagree with most of the comments, at heart. I don't think Derek is terribly funny with the comments. It's not at all my kind of humor in a public setting. My friends and I are BRUTAL to each other, but it stays in the group and it's not for others to participate in. Once I put the two and two together on the "Wiz" thing, I thought it was something that, if it really was a joke, you say directly to the person, not as a third party tweet for all to see. (Remember, I'm the guy that thinks Twitter is going to be the end of society as we know it.)
So please don't try to superimpose what you THINK I'm trying to do with what is actually happening.
Sorry to misunderstand you, Stadler, but, frankly, you won't have me seeing you any other way. So, let's leave it at that. And I mean no disrespect to the man as I don't know you as a person, just as a forumer.
But enough derailing the thread : while I don't like the attitude of MP (and this was true even before the split), I like the drummer that he is, or rather, I liked the drummer that he was. Never enough, for example, is often a song that is frowned upon for being a Muse rip-off. I don't care : MP's drumming on the 2nd verse of the song is fantastic! The break before the solo in constant Motion is also fantastic drum-wise (and yet, 8vm and SC are one of their worst albums for me) and I could go on like that. Unfortunately, I found nothing of the sort in the 2 songs released by SoA : you know, those famous "wow" moments! And this, among other things, is what will keep me from even listening to the album. The songs are not bad per se, once again, they are simply not my cup of tea.
B.Lee
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I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before. Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that. I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.
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Maybe I'm just too tired, but why was GnR mentioned?
I should have clarified that. They used the example of November Rain being released as a single/video. My bad.
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I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before. Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that. I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.
Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.
B.Lee
-
Here's a counterpoint to Stadler, from Mike's Twitter. Someone tweeted why doesn't SoA release a 10 minute prog song as their single (after all, they're the kings of prog, prog metal missile heading straight at you, taking over the world, arenas, a frenzy in the rock and metal world, etc.), and this was Mike's response:
"Really??
GnR was a multi platinum band with complete control over radio...
SOA hasn't even released its 1st album....Get real!"
... then his followers come back with, "Fuck this troll! Don't feed the trolls! Bell end! Don't listen to him! People don't understand how the music business works!" It's not a bad question either, if they're kings of prog, release a prog single. But the band has this attitude of, "We can do anything, we're taking over, this is gonna BLOW YOUR MIND!" so it's puzzling in the age of the Internet that Mike thinks radio control means a lick of spit and that people should "get real." Point being, Mike encourages/doesn't mind attacks or criticism - as long as they aren't directed at him. And that is how you can tell someone is insecure.
EDIT: Darn, I was going to delete this for the better good but people responded. So here ya go.
If I understand right:
Someone asked why they don't release the ten minute song as a single.
Mike countered that GnR - who released November Rain (9:00 or thereabouts) and Estranged (9:30 or thereabouts) - were already in control by virtue of their level of stardom and could make that call. SoA are not at that level yet.
The comment section went off the rails.
If anyone cares, I think the question was fair, I think the response was fair, and I think the commenters are up their own ass. Why does every conversation have to be about the participant and not the topic? It's a fair question to ask why a song was or was not a single, and Mike's answer - whether you agree with it or not - is at least grounded in reality. Remember Billy Joel's "The Entertainer" ("It was a beautiful song, but it ran too long; If you're gonna have a hit, you gotta make it fit; So they cut it down to 3:05") or Marillion's "Three Minute Boy"?
I think the rest of it, pro OR con for Mike, is noise. Not that their opinions are worthless but it's not furthering the discussion to engage in that level of conversation.
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I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before. Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that. I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.
Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.
B.Lee
Or be understood. They're not the same thing ( I can tell you that from personal experience).
-
He can't just make the same point without a 'Really??' and a 'Get real!', can he?
-
Here's a counterpoint to Stadler, from Mike's Twitter. Someone tweeted why doesn't SoA release a 10 minute prog song as their single (after all, they're the kings of prog, prog metal missile heading straight at you, taking over the world, arenas, a frenzy in the rock and metal world, etc.), and this was Mike's response:
"Really??
GnR was a multi platinum band with complete control over radio...
SOA hasn't even released its 1st album....Get real!"
... then his followers come back with, "Fuck this troll! Don't feed the trolls! Bell end! Don't listen to him! People don't understand how the music business works!" It's not a bad question either, if they're kings of prog, release a prog single. But the band has this attitude of, "We can do anything, we're taking over, this is gonna BLOW YOUR MIND!" so it's puzzling in the age of the Internet that Mike thinks radio control means a lick of spit and that people should "get real." Point being, Mike encourages/doesn't mind attacks or criticism - as long as they aren't directed at him. And that is how you can tell someone is insecure.
EDIT: Darn, I was going to delete this for the better good but people responded. So here ya go.
If I understand right:
Someone asked why they don't release the ten minute song as a single.
Mike countered that GnR - who released November Rain (9:00 or thereabouts) and Estranged (9:30 or thereabouts) - were already in control by virtue of their level of stardom and could make that call. SoA are not at that level yet.
The comment section went off the rails.
If anyone cares, I think the question was fair, I think the response was fair, and I think the commenters are up their own ass. Why does every conversation have to be about the participant and not the topic? It's a fair question to ask why a song was or was not a single, and Mike's answer - whether you agree with it or not - is at least grounded in reality. Remember Billy Joel's "The Entertainer" ("It was a beautiful song, but it ran too long; If you're gonna have a hit, you gotta make it fit; So they cut it down to 3:05") or Marillion's "Three Minute Boy"?
I think the rest of it, pro OR con for Mike, is noise. Not that their opinions are worthless but it's not furthering the discussion to engage in that level of conversation.
I think MP's content was fine but he has such an aggressive high school response to everything.
"Really??
GnR was a multi platinum band with complete control over radio...
SOA hasn't even released its 1st album....Get real!"
I can see pretty much anyone else if they even felt the need to respond would be more like. "I don't think we are quite that popular. :)" Anyhow, I am not in MP's shoes but it seems like he should probably just stay away from the social media or at the very least don't respond.
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Bosk, I need to start slowly on the marathon, and that's why listening to an album I hardly know would be a good fit. If I put on Power Windows, I might start too strong (Big Money and Marathon always get me pumped!!!!) and burn out halfway through the race.
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He can't just make the same point without a 'Really??' and a 'Get real!', can he?
Agree.
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I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before. Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that. I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.
Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.
B.Lee
Or be understood. They're not the same thing ( I can tell you that from personal experience).
Being understood is in a way a control issue. One wont be happy until that person understands you. You are in a way trying to control their thoughts. Some people wont, so it's wise to just move on.
-
The strong middle eastern influence comment makes me think of Home. I wonder if it borrows any ideas.
Soon.
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Bosk, I need to start slowly on the marathon, and that's why listening to an album I hardly know would be a good fit. If I put on Power Windows, I might start too strong (Big Money and Marathon always get me pumped!!!!) and burn out halfway through the race.
I'm not a marathoner myself, but you can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast. You can make the most of the distance; first you need endurance, first you've got to last.
-
I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before. Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that. I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.
Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.
B.Lee
Or be understood. They're not the same thing ( I can tell you that from personal experience).
Being understood is in a way a control issue. One wont be happy until that person understands you. You are in a way trying to control their thoughts. Some people wont, so it's wise to just move on.
Words to live by if I ever heard them
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I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before. Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that. I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.
Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.
B.Lee
Or be understood. They're not the same thing ( I can tell you that from personal experience).
Being understood is in a way a control issue. One wont be happy until that person understands you. You are in a way trying to control their thoughts. Some people wont, so it's wise to just move on.
It's likely different for different people, and I don't at all think that because I am one way that everyone is, but I can only speak for myself: it is not a control issue. It is more a selfish thing than anything else. I want to be understood because I want the feedback. The feedback is useless if the information going in is faulty. I don't mean "feedback" as in "you're right, I agree with you!" but rather, feedback of additional ideas. I get bored with "I agree with you". I get a thrill with "I don't agree with you, but I understand you and respect your position. Have you considered this, though?". It's why most of my friends do not share my political beliefs, why I loved working for GE more than any other company (they waste almost no time on platitudes), and why I post more in threads where I am not in the majority.
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If you don't buy an artists music because you don't like their behavior you are only punishing yourself. If it is music that you personally like but you don't support then you can't complain when more of that type isn't made. Having said that SOA doesn't seem to be my cup of tea and I doubt will not buy it.
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If you don't buy an artists music because you don't like their behavior you are only punishing yourself. If it is music that you personally like but you don't support then you can't complain when more of that type isn't made. Having said that SOA doesn't seem to be my cup of tea and I doubt will not buy it.
Not a punishment at all, frankly it's quite the opposite. I'll still hear it thanks to my Spotify subscription, and I get to save $12-15 that I'll throw to another band's album instead (likely VUUR at this point). So I still get to hear it, but I don't financially support them. Win win.
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I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before. Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that. I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.
Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.
B.Lee
Or be understood. They're not the same thing ( I can tell you that from personal experience).
Being understood is in a way a control issue. One wont be happy until that person understands you. You are in a way trying to control their thoughts. Some people wont, so it's wise to just move on.
It's likely different for different people, and I don't at all think that because I am one way that everyone is, but I can only speak for myself: it is not a control issue. It is more a selfish thing than anything else. I want to be understood because I want the feedback. The feedback is useless if the information going in is faulty. I don't mean "feedback" as in "you're right, I agree with you!" but rather, feedback of additional ideas. I get bored with "I agree with you". I get a thrill with "I don't agree with you, but I understand you and respect your position. Have you considered this, though?". It's why most of my friends do not share my political beliefs, why I loved working for GE more than any other company (they waste almost no time on platitudes), and why I post more in threads where I am not in the majority.
Not that they have to agree with you but that they have to respond a certain way at all. In your instance you want feedback. You want that feedback and if you don't get it and are upset it is in my opinion a control issue.
Ok, this is WAY off topic. :)
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Bosk, I need to start slowly on the marathon, and that's why listening to an album I hardly know would be a good fit. If I put on Power Windows, I might start too strong (Big Money and Marathon always get me pumped!!!!) and burn out halfway through the race.
I'm not a marathoner myself, but you can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast. You can make the most of the distance; first you need endurance, first you've got to last.
Indeed. And I've listened to that song on all four marathons I've done so far. It's always fun!
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Didn't Threshold release a 10 minute song from what I consider their new Prog Masterpiece?
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The strong middle eastern influence comment makes me think of Home. I wonder if it borrows any ideas.
Soon.
Yes, not too long. It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the album compares to the two preview tracks.
I enjoyed reading the review that was posted yesterday - no matter the criticism of it - particularly the part about the final track. Then I realised the final track is the instrumental and immediately felt a little disappointed. I have to say instrumental tracks never really get me going (with the exception of Steam of Consciousness: it's a beautiful construction and so melodic).
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Didn't Threshold release a 10 minute song from what I consider their new Prog Masterpiece?
Blind Guardian released a 14 minute song as a single.
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I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before. Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that. I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.
Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.
B.Lee
Or be understood. They're not the same thing ( I can tell you that from personal experience).
Yup, you're right, but, honestly, that would save him a lot of trouble if he sometimes let go, which, apparently, he can't.
B.Lee
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If you don't buy an artists music because you don't like their behavior you are only punishing yourself. If it is music that you personally like but you don't support then you can't complain when more of that type isn't made. Having said that SOA doesn't seem to be my cup of tea and I doubt will not buy it.
You're right. And I have the same reaction concerning SoA : not my cup of tea, so I won't buy it (not even listen to it for that matter). Plus, if you compare their music to what I have heard of Ice Fish, sorry, but I'll buy Ice Fish.
B.Lee
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Didn't Threshold release a 10 minute song from what I consider their new Prog Masterpiece?
Blind Guardian released a 14 minute song as a single.
All of this.
Furthermore we're in the YouTube era, with lyrics video, streaming, teasers etc... send one song to the radio, the short one, and upload for streaming a 10 minute one. Mike was absolutely right to point out the difference between GNR and them, but we're in an age where a "radio single" is not the only way to go. Many band have a lyric video while they shoot an "official" videoclip for the "single".
And back to what noxon said about Mike a couple of pages earlier - I have no reason to doubt any word he wrote. Probably that's why his loss of temper online sticks out more, because anyone who follows him knows how usually he's great, filled with enthusiasm and with a deep knowledge both of music and the way fans think.
-
Bosk, I need to start slowly on the marathon, and that's why listening to an album I hardly know would be a good fit. If I put on Power Windows, I might start too strong (Big Money and Marathon always get me pumped!!!!) and burn out halfway through the race.
I'm not a marathoner myself, but you can do a lot in a lifetime if you don't burn out too fast. You can make the most of the distance; first you need endurance, first you've got to last.
Indeed. And I've listened to that song on all four marathons I've done so far. It's always fun!
Cool. Yeah, it's different for everybody. I never did a marathon, but I used to do shorter distance running. Now, I'm into distance cycling. So, I can identify in many ways. I get what you are saying about not going out too fast. I only said what I said because, if I were going to divide it into quarters, for the first quarter, I would want something familiar to help set my rhythm for me. Starting right off with something I wasn't familiar with would feel weird. But I get you.
For a lot of runners, I imagine the mindset to be kind of like: the green light flashes, the flags go up; churning and burning, they yearn for the cup. They deftly maneuver and muscle for rank--fuel burning fast on an empty tank. Reckless and wild, they pour through the turns. Their prowess is potent and secretly stern. As they speed through the finish, the flags go down. The fans get up and they get out of town.
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I think MP's content was fine but he has such an aggressive high school response to everything.
"Really??
GnR was a multi platinum band with complete control over radio...
SOA hasn't even released its 1st album....Get real!"
I can see pretty much anyone else if they even felt the need to respond would be more like. "I don't think we are quite that popular. :)" Anyhow, I am not in MP's shoes but it seems like he should probably just stay away from the social media or at the very least don't respond.
Agreed. The question was reasonable. The point Mike was trying to make is reasonable. But, as is often the case, HOW he said what he said is the problem.
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Re: to the single talk.
Isn't the music industry in a place where singles don't really matter for artists like SoA?
I mean what tangible benefit is there for this band to release a 4 minute song on YouTube rather than a 10 minute song? I mean it's their call and they can do whatever they want, but will anything actually shake down differently for the group because they released a "radio friendly" song first? I feel like I still won't hear them on the old FM.
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Re: to the single talk.
Isn't the music industry in a place where singles don't really matter for artists like SoA?
I mean what tangible benefit is there for this band to release a 4 minute song on YouTube rather than a 10 minute song? I mean it's their call and they can do whatever they want, but will anything actually shake down differently for the group because they released a "radio friendly" song first? I feel like I still won't hear them on the old FM.
That's what I was thinking as well. You won't hear them on the radio, except maybe a specialized one. Maybe it will work for them, but I think there is practically 0 chance a band of 50year-olds will be successful to the point of being a household name.
B.Lee
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Back then, you had to buy the album in order to hear how the band sounded. Would you still buy their next albums after realizing said artist was a really bad person, an asshole, did unlawful/unethical things? Charles Manson comes to mind.
Now since we know pretty much the artists just recently scratched their ass thanks to social media, its becoming more of a personal attachment. You get upset when they do something you reject or don't believe in. Yet, you won't buy their art because of that. Sometimes, the art is the effect of the person being that way. Which in turn brings you the art you see and love, turning grotesque into beauty. I'm sure a lot of people that are famous inventors or held highly were real assholes and if people knew would change their stance.
I'm with Stadler about Social Media being the cause of many things happening to people psychologically. And this decable is a product of Social Media. MP and DS are the kinds of people that this platform definately breaks on.
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Re: to the single talk.
Isn't the music industry in a place where singles don't really matter for artists like SoA?
I mean what tangible benefit is there for this band to release a 4 minute song on YouTube rather than a 10 minute song? I mean it's their call and they can do whatever they want, but will anything actually shake down differently for the group because they released a "radio friendly" song first? I feel like I still won't hear them on the old FM.
That's what I was thinking as well. You won't hear them on the radio, except maybe a specialized one. Maybe it will work for them, but I think there is practically 0 chance a band of 50year-olds will be successful to the point of being a household name.
B.Lee
Right, and I'm not bashing. It's not like you'll hear the next DT single on the radio either, that's fine... But once again, I'm confused, my read of this is that it was hyped to be a prog metal thing, their core fanbase will probably have a lot of crossover with DT's, so I feel like they could have released something more proggy for a single and it would have gone over maybe better with their target audience.
It's not like it's 1985 and you gotta release the radio friendly single to get air play, then people will buy the record to hear the deep cuts. It just doesn't work remotely like that anymore.
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Back then, you had to buy the album in order to hear how the band sounded. Would you still buy their next albums after realizing said artist was a really bad person, an asshole, did unlawful/unethical things? Charles Manson comes to mind.
Now since we know pretty much the artists just recently scratched their ass thanks to social media, its becoming more of a personal attachment. You get upset when they do something you reject or don't believe in. Yet, you won't buy their art because of that. Sometimes, the art is the effect of the person being that way. Which in turn brings you the art you see and love, turning grotesque into beauty. I'm sure a lot of people that are famous inventors or held highly were real assholes and if people knew would change their stance.
I'm with Stadler about Social Media being the cause of many things happening to people psychologically. And this decable is a product of Social Media. MP and DS are the kinds of people that this platform definately breaks on.
I miss those days. I remember being into Sabbath and all I knew about them was they dressed bad (look at Bill Ward on Sabotage) and they did coke (yes, I got the "thank you" reference in Vol. 4). And they were so mysterious and scary as a result. It added a new dimension to their music. Kiss too. All I knew from Gene Simmons was that photo on Alive II. Scared the fuck out of me and he was larger than life as a result. Now? We know so much that it's all a cartoon. I try to explain this to my kid and she just doesn't get it (though when I took her to see Kiss and she saw the bombast and spectacle, she kind of got it).
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Re: to the single talk.
Isn't the music industry in a place where singles don't really matter for artists like SoA?
I mean what tangible benefit is there for this band to release a 4 minute song on YouTube rather than a 10 minute song? I mean it's their call and they can do whatever they want, but will anything actually shake down differently for the group because they released a "radio friendly" song first? I feel like I still won't hear them on the old FM.
That's what I was thinking as well. You won't hear them on the radio, except maybe a specialized one. Maybe it will work for them, but I think there is practically 0 chance a band of 50year-olds will be successful to the point of being a household name.
B.Lee
Right, and I'm not bashing. It's not like you'll hear the next DT single on the radio either, that's fine... But once again, I'm confused, my read of this is that it was hyped to be a prog metal thing, their core fanbase will probably have a lot of crossover with DT's, so I feel like they could have released something more proggy for a single and it would have gone over maybe better with their target audience.
It's not like it's 1985 and you gotta release the radio friendly single to get air play, then people will buy the record to hear the deep cuts. It just doesn't work remotely like that anymore.
Yep. It's a completely new era and you would think a guy that was responding on Twitter would realize that.
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I dont think MP was totally wrong in what he was saying there, the music business doesn't seem to like releasing 10 minute singles, even if its been done before. Although, as usual, why the hell does he even bother responding to things like that. I don't think he needs to explain himself here and if he is going to, he can do it in a much better fashion.
Totally agree : he has nothing to explain, but this stems from his tendency to want to control everything.
B.Lee
Or be understood. They're not the same thing ( I can tell you that from personal experience).
Yup, you're right, but, honestly, that would save him a lot of trouble if he sometimes let go, which, apparently, he can't.
B.Lee
Can't argue with that. Not EVERY question needs to be answered in real time.
One approach would be... they're on the press tour: "Hey, this is our new single, 'Coming Home'. We wanted to get a quick shot of flavor of SoA - kind of like espresso. Funny thing; some fan on Twitter asked why not release the epic; you know, we're not yet at the level GnR where we can release 10 minute opuses as our first single! Yet! Anyway, it's just a teaser, hope you like it!" or some shit like that. Not telling them what to say, but pointing out that there is more than one way to skin a cat.
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I think it's a good point that SoA are approaching all of this with an antiquated mindset. Not just them, lots of bands are still adapting slowly.
But releasing the "single" is mainly meant to lure in people from the radio or something, and clealry SoA aren't going to be getting much audience from that.
In fact, there are essentially 7 groups of people they could be aiming for.
1) Those familiar with Portnoy or his projects
2) Those familiar with JSS or his projects
3) Those familiar with DS.....
4) Those familiar with Sheehan....
5) Those familiar with Bumblefoot.....
6) Those familiar with more than one of them
7) Those not familiar with any of them
For numbers 1, 3, 4, and 6, releasing longer progier tracks would better speak to those audience. For numbers 2 and 5, I dunno to be honest. And number 7 just isn't going to get them much.
So statistically speaking, releasing the more proggy tracks increases their chances of building their fan base.
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I only know what's happening based on this thread. I dont have a twitter, don't have them as a FB friend because of how they are, meaning bombastic and over the top kind of guys, its just who they are. I do follow his bands though that I'm interested in.
My concern is the people that know this yet still continue to have him as a twitter/friend. I guess thats a troll nuh.
Anyways, the songs I'm interested in are Figaros Whore and Opus Maximus. I hope that review wasn't too grateful to be grateful.
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Y'all are crazy. The crossover appeal of Sons of Apollo is massive, I tell you! As massive as a missile that has been launched right at you!
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Found a link to this review on Facebook: https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
"Due to its line-up of super-heroes, Sons of Apollo’s debut has been anticipated with nothing short of frenzy in rock circles. Teaser releases have been met with hysteria..." Oh really? :lol
I've got a digital advance copy, have listened to the album once and will write a review :soon: after I've had multiple listens and enough time to let the songs sink in. It certainly is prog, but it's much closer to SC/BC&SL than FII.
The strong middle eastern influence comment makes me think of Home. I wonder if it borrows any ideas.
Soon.
It doesn't sound that much like Home to my ears, but the presence of the sitar (patch) makes me think people will compare those two songs. The keyboard lead intro actually reminds me of LITS.
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Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.
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I am underwhelmed by the 2 songs I've heard but I'll likely buy it and see what I think after hearing the whole album a few times.
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Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.
Same here. Although I'd still prefer those albums over a host of other albums out there by other bands.....these two are me least favorite offerings from DT with only ITPOE and TCOT garnering a listen from me. The other songs have some moments but don't compel me to spin the entire albums.
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Found a link to this review on Facebook: https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
"Due to its line-up of super-heroes, Sons of Apollo’s debut has been anticipated with nothing short of frenzy in rock circles. Teaser releases have been met with hysteria..." Oh really? :lol
I've got a digital advance copy, have listened to the album once and will write a review :soon: after I've had multiple listens and enough time to let the songs sink in. It certainly is prog, but it's much closer to SC/BC&SL than FII.
The strong middle eastern influence comment makes me think of Home. I wonder if it borrows any ideas.
Soon.
It doesn't sound that much like Home to my ears, but the presence of the sitar (patch) makes me think people will compare those two songs. The keyboard lead intro actually reminds me of LITS.
Is it ITPOE and TCOT like or Constant Motion and Rite of Passage like?
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I do hope it's the latter :biggrin:
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Y'all are crazy. The crossover appeal of Sons of Apollo is massive, I tell you! As massive as a missile that has been launched right at you!
:rollin
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I think Derek wrote that Progreport review. Here is why. It was written by Prog Nick.
From Nightmare Cinema, here is Derek's name.
Nicky Lemons (Derek Sherinian) - guitar (keyboards)
https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
I am actually not joking.
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Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.
Same here. Although I'd still prefer those albums over a host of other albums out there by other bands.....these two are me least favorite offerings from DT with only ITPOE and TCOT garnering a listen from me. The other songs have some moments but don't compel me to spin the entire albums.
+1 to all of this
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I think Derek wrote that Progreport review. Here is why. It was written by Prog Nick.
From Nightmare Cinema, here is Derek's name.
Nicky Lemons (Derek Sherinian) - guitar (keyboards)
https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
I am actually not joking.
Maybe it's Nicky Spanjaards :o
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Just putting this here to help clear the air for some people who think some of us are attacking Mike, which we certainly aren't. This is simply to back up why some of us are skeptical - about SoA's commercial success and longevity, the hype, and Mike's tenure with the band. And I do hope Mike reads this so he understands we can still be fans and still voice concerns. After revisiting these articles I feel my hesitation is just... what do you think? I'm genuinely curious to hear others' opinions here. Look how similar some of these statements are to the SoA marketing - the hype, the 'best songs ever,' the 'this is my new home.'
Adrenaline Mob (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/adrenaline_mob_album_teaser_first_band_photo.html)
"The feedback we've gotten back so far has been unreal," Portnoy told AOL's Noisecreep. "Even my wife, who's been through it all with me, says it's the best stuff she's ever heard me play on. I played in Dream Theater for 25 years, plus some other pretty decent bands including Avenged Sevenfold, so that's really saying something."
He added, "I've listened to these tunes so many times already and all I want to do is go out and play them live with this band. I've always had lots of side projects in my life, but what's exciting for me is knowing that Adrenaline Mob is bigger than that. This is a real band with a real future and 11 new songs that I think the fans are going to flip for."
The Winery Dogs (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_portnoy_calls_the_winery_dogs_his_new_home.html)
"We all have cleared our schedule for the rest of this year to focus on The Winery Dogs, and we plan on doing the same next year," the stickman said. "We plan on riding this cycle - and this band - as far as we could take it. And we all view this as a full-time band; this is not a side project."
After separating Flying Colors, PSMS and Transatlantic as side projects and singling out Winery Dogs as "the band," Portnoy explained further, "I view this as my new home. And the way I was in Dream Theater - that was my home and I did other little things when I could, I view the situation here the same.
"Adrenaline Mob, we gave it our best shot, but this, right from the get-go, it just feels great within the band - the internal chemistry is amazing - and also the external reaction has been just off the charts, unanimously supportive and positive."
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I think Derek wrote that Progreport review. Here is why. It was written by Prog Nick.
From Nightmare Cinema, here is Derek's name.
Nicky Lemons (Derek Sherinian) - guitar (keyboards)
https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
I am actually not joking.
You know how I feel about all this, speculation, etc... but having said that, it wouldn't surprise me. I read that review and I vacillated between "maybe English is a second language" and "someone who works for the record company". Then I thought, those are some complex words for even someone for whom English is a first language... and some of the syntax was just, odd. So that kind of left me with the latter. Either way, from a critique standpoint (I'm talking Roger Ebert, Lester Bangs kind of thing) it's the kind of review that isn't really useful.
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Well, to put my spin on it, I don't read reviews and I never put stock in what the artist says about their new 'whatever'.
Every musician/band that I listen to (heck, even the ones I don't) always says that every new release is the best thing they have ever done. I never buy their PR opinion.
If it is an artist I like, they are either an automatic buy or I check out a few samples to hear if it grabs me. Press, Reviews, social media, bad behavior, costumes/masks/makeup/hair/tattoos etc., has no bearing in my purchase of an album.
The music, and my opinion of it, is all I care about. Everything else is meaningless to me.
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I think Derek wrote that Progreport review. Here is why. It was written by Prog Nick.
From Nightmare Cinema, here is Derek's name.
Nicky Lemons (Derek Sherinian) - guitar (keyboards)
https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
I am actually not joking.
Holy shit, I hope this is true. I would probably buy the album just based on that fact alone. :lol
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Just putting this here to help clear the air for some people who think some of us are attacking Mike, which we certainly aren't. This is simply to back up why some of us are skeptical - about SoA's commercial success and longevity, the hype, and Mike's tenure with the band. And I do hope Mike reads this so he understands we can still be fans and still voice concerns. After revisiting these articles I feel my hesitation is just... what do you think? I'm genuinely curious to hear others' opinions here. Look how similar some of these statements are to the SoA marketing - the hype, the 'best songs ever,' the 'this is my new home.'
*snip*
Well, to be fair, what should ANY band say? "Well, we'll see how it goes from here"...? "We had a deadline to meet and while 2-3 songs kinda suck, the rest isn't pretty bad"... music history is full of bands said to go along well only to split six months later, and "best albums ever" that interviews of three years later reveal as a studio obligation, or something marred by external problems etc...
Having said that, it's up to any musician I guess to find the best and most honest way to promote their work, and it's up to fans to read between the lines and form an opinion of their own. For sure previous situations have made harder to believe the hype with Mike's projects, but in the end the music will speak for its own.
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Just putting this here to help clear the air for some people who think some of us are attacking Mike, which we certainly aren't. This is simply to back up why some of us are skeptical - about SoA's commercial success and longevity, the hype, and Mike's tenure with the band. And I do hope Mike reads this so he understands we can still be fans and still voice concerns. After revisiting these articles I feel my hesitation is just... what do you think? I'm genuinely curious to hear others' opinions here. Look how similar some of these statements are to the SoA marketing - the hype, the 'best songs ever,' the 'this is my new home.'
*snip*
Well, to be fair, what should ANY band say? "Well, we'll see how it goes from here"...? "We had a deadline to meet and while 2-3 songs kinda suck, the rest isn't pretty bad"... music history is full of bands said to go along well only to split six months later, and "best albums ever" that interviews of three years later reveal as a studio obligation, or something marred by external problems etc...
Having said that, it's up to any musician I guess to find the best and most honest way to promote their work, and it's up to fans to read between the lines and form an opinion of their own. For sure previous situations have made harder to believe the hype with Mike's projects, but in the end the music will speak for its own.
Hey, I don't disagree at all, and I understand they have to hype it. But put in context of all the projects Mike's been a part of (and then left for one reason or another after making clear it's the new main gig, y'see) it's just part of the reason I don't believe the Sons hype.
Also some Internet sleuthing shows that Prog Nick is in fact a real person and not Derek Sherinian, lol. :)
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The Winery Dogs (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_portnoy_calls_the_winery_dogs_his_new_home.html)
"We all have cleared our schedule for the rest of this year to focus on The Winery Dogs, and we plan on doing the same next year," the stickman said. "We plan on riding this cycle - and this band - as far as we could take it. And we all view this as a full-time band; this is not a side project."
After separating Flying Colors, PSMS and Transatlantic as side projects and singling out Winery Dogs as "the band," Portnoy explained further, "I view this as my new home. And the way I was in Dream Theater - that was my home and I did other little things when I could, I view the situation here the same.
"Adrenaline Mob, we gave it our best shot, but this, right from the get-go, it just feels great within the band - the internal chemistry is amazing - and also the external reaction has been just off the charts, unanimously supportive and positive."
I'm not sure what went wrong with Adrenaline Mob but The Winery Dogs didn't turn out to be a full time band because of Kotzen wanting to do his solo stuff.
-
I think Derek wrote that Progreport review. Here is why. It was written by Prog Nick.
From Nightmare Cinema, here is Derek's name.
Nicky Lemons (Derek Sherinian) - guitar (keyboards)
https://progreport.com/sons-of-apollo-psychotic-symphony-album-review/
I am actually not joking.
You know how I feel about all this, speculation, etc... but having said that, it wouldn't surprise me. I read that review and I vacillated between "maybe English is a second language" and "someone who works for the record company". Then I thought, those are some complex words for even someone for whom English is a first language... and some of the syntax was just, odd. So that kind of left me with the latter. Either way, from a critique standpoint (I'm talking Roger Ebert, Lester Bangs kind of thing) it's the kind of review that isn't really useful.
I had a very similar string of thoughts. It almost seemed like parts of it were put through Google translate or something.
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i remember Russel Allen commenting on being way happier with MP's replacement drummer not having "rockstar-issues" and actually helping the crew unload etc..
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MP is a great drummer, great performer and all the rest of it. But in the age of social media I really don't think he's a good spokesman. He wants to have his cake and eat it; be fully in the public eye, front and center of everything but then throws tantrums when he isn't met with universal praise. There's nothing inherently wrong with being thin skinned but there comes a point when you have to recognise that thin skinned is what you are, and take a step back. I dunno how much of a negative impact his replying to/deleting social media comments will have, but it surely can't have a positive one.
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i remember Russel Allen commenting on being way happier with MP's replacement drummer not having "rockstar-issues" and actually helping the crew unload etc..
For smaller bands like Devin Townsend and Haken, I actually witnessed the band members loading/unloading before/after thier sets. Sometimes you forget that bands that are just trying to make their way, do things like this to save money and to make a tour more cost effective. I can see how in AMOB (who isn't that big either) would feel the need to have the band members help out in these areas. I can totally see how that would bother the band members who were putting in that extra effort.
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i remember Russel Allen commenting on being way happier with MP's replacement drummer not having "rockstar-issues" and actually helping the crew unload etc..
When did he say this?
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Someone posted a pic on FB (I think on the inner circle page) at least an hour after Morsefest of Neal Morse out there vacuuming and helping clean up. It didn't shock me at all. It seems like something a great guy like Neal Morse would do.
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While I do think Mike acts rashly at times, I have to say this:
I've never known a guy that cares so much about... well, everyone. He's really passionate, and really emotional, to a fault at times. But he's also a very kind and giving person.
I had absolutely no reason to expect him to even remember who I was, but I was surprised that he actually remembered my name - after meeting me 3 times. In 2014 I did the VIP thing for Neal Morse band (btw, if you want to support a band monetarily - this is the absolute best way to do so). And I said "I don't know if you remember me", and he looked me over for a second and said "Of course I do. It's Kim, right?". Blew my mind. And asking him for anything in the recent years has always been met with kindness and accomodation.
Asking him for the interview in April was met with a joke - he had seen the James interview, and noticed that James consistenly called me "Tim". He pointed that out, jokingly saying that I could only interview him if "he could call me Tim". First of all - he saw the interview I did - second of all - he noticed that James called me the wrong name... And I'm not someone who's been in his face or been in this to get them to know -me-, I've always enjoyed being the guy that helped others meet their idols and standing back watching them enjoy it. Mike was the first who -really- showed that he knew me. Now, it's a different story, since I've been in DTs face since I took over the world wide fan club (except for Mangini - who apparently refuses to remember who I am).
So while I do know that Mike can be viewed as abrasive - I also know him from another side. I know he's the real deal. It's not fake when he's passionate. It's not fake when he's emotional and hurt by personal attacks. He's simply a human being who happens to be a well known music artist, but he also knows very well what it is to be a fan, and is very down to earth. That's why I love these guys, all of them. I can have conversations with any of them, and they treat me as thought they're actually interested. It may be fake, it may be a face they put on, but they try to see "the people", not just fans.
Of course, this personal attachment does make it harder for me to do some of my tasks like reviewing albums and such. But at the same time, I know that they all know that it's kinda my job to be honest about my opinions, and they value it..... except for that one time... ;)
As a somewhat frequent critic of the man, I will say that none of this really surprises me. It reminds me of a lady I worked with a long time ago. She was, let's say, difficult to get along with, but she had a handful or two of close friends who thought she was the greatest thing, and to them, she was. She would do anything for them, which I saw firsthand (her and I did not care for each other, but several of her close friends were also close friends of mine, so we often tolerated each other), but if you were someone she didn't care for, look out, because she would be aggressively be a raging bitch to you. It was astonishing to see how someone could be so nice to someone one minute and then flip the switch and be so mean to someone else the next.
So, while there are differences, Mike Portnoy, in some ways, reminds me of her. To the people that are in his corner, Mike Portnoy is the greatest thing ever, and he treats them well, but to those who have that audacity to not back him up 100% on everything, you are crap, and he shows little to no regard for you. If nothing else, it's fascination to watch.
I would like to challenge this assertion (lots of people making it and I'm not singling you out, just using your example as it was in response to Kim).
Kim/noxon is far from a 100% MP fanboy. I've always found him very balanced and his reviews of DT and other MP-related albums have always had a fair amount of criticism peppered throughout - some more so than others, of course.
I don't believe at all that MP is only interested in blind fanboys, and I think it's quite insulting of so many people to suggest so. His biggest problem when it comes to social media etc. is being incredibly sensitive to certain criticisms, or to criticisms made in certain ways, both of which can cause him to react badly and disproportionately when he perceives them as unfair bashing (when often that's not the case). His view of DTF is entirely coloured by this, which as others have noted is such a shame as he has a lot of fans here and he's missing a great opportunity.
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Even in my own criticisms on how MP handles himself in social media, I've always assumed he was a pretty decent dude in person (I've never met him).
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i remember Russel Allen commenting on being way happier with MP's replacement drummer not having "rockstar-issues" and actually helping the crew unload etc..
When did he say this?
https://joedaly.net/?p=244
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While I do think Mike acts rashly at times, I have to say this:
I've never known a guy that cares so much about... well, everyone. He's really passionate, and really emotional, to a fault at times. But he's also a very kind and giving person.
I had absolutely no reason to expect him to even remember who I was, but I was surprised that he actually remembered my name - after meeting me 3 times. In 2014 I did the VIP thing for Neal Morse band (btw, if you want to support a band monetarily - this is the absolute best way to do so). And I said "I don't know if you remember me", and he looked me over for a second and said "Of course I do. It's Kim, right?". Blew my mind. And asking him for anything in the recent years has always been met with kindness and accomodation.
Asking him for the interview in April was met with a joke - he had seen the James interview, and noticed that James consistenly called me "Tim". He pointed that out, jokingly saying that I could only interview him if "he could call me Tim". First of all - he saw the interview I did - second of all - he noticed that James called me the wrong name... And I'm not someone who's been in his face or been in this to get them to know -me-, I've always enjoyed being the guy that helped others meet their idols and standing back watching them enjoy it. Mike was the first who -really- showed that he knew me. Now, it's a different story, since I've been in DTs face since I took over the world wide fan club (except for Mangini - who apparently refuses to remember who I am).
So while I do know that Mike can be viewed as abrasive - I also know him from another side. I know he's the real deal. It's not fake when he's passionate. It's not fake when he's emotional and hurt by personal attacks. He's simply a human being who happens to be a well known music artist, but he also knows very well what it is to be a fan, and is very down to earth. That's why I love these guys, all of them. I can have conversations with any of them, and they treat me as thought they're actually interested. It may be fake, it may be a face they put on, but they try to see "the people", not just fans.
Of course, this personal attachment does make it harder for me to do some of my tasks like reviewing albums and such. But at the same time, I know that they all know that it's kinda my job to be honest about my opinions, and they value it..... except for that one time... ;)
As a somewhat frequent critic of the man, I will say that none of this really surprises me. It reminds me of a lady I worked with a long time ago. She was, let's say, difficult to get along with, but she had a handful or two of close friends who thought she was the greatest thing, and to them, she was. She would do anything for them, which I saw firsthand (her and I did not care for each other, but several of her close friends were also close friends of mine, so we often tolerated each other), but if you were someone she didn't care for, look out, because she would be aggressively be a raging bitch to you. It was astonishing to see how someone could be so nice to someone one minute and then flip the switch and be so mean to someone else the next.
So, while there are differences, Mike Portnoy, in some ways, reminds me of her. To the people that are in his corner, Mike Portnoy is the greatest thing ever, and he treats them well, but to those who have that audacity to not back him up 100% on everything, you are crap, and he shows little to no regard for you. If nothing else, it's fascination to watch.
Yeah, this is kind of my interpretation too. He's all about being the "fan friendly artist." Which is sort of an ego trip of its own. He has a certain level of condescension in his approach. People who buy your music, your art, aren't children who need to be treated like you're providing a charity towards. I haven't seen or heard of many fan interactions with him where he actually treated the other person like a normal person, it's always "MP" (his 3rd person references are a start) meeting "his fans," "his kids," or his "haters." Very binary, and very vain. Either you talk about how he "treats his fans" by releasing "official bootlegs" (releasing a product to buy is giving a treat to people who need to be treated?) or you see it all as a bit much, and end up having "Never Enough" written about you.
Add in DS and I genuinely wonder what the impact of this all will be on sales. I mean, if we're being frank, I don't think anyone expects this project to light it up monetarily regardless, but it can't be helping.
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I've been fortunate enough to meet him backstage at shows twice (once after PT and once after a SC tour show) and he seemed super normal/friendly both times.
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i remember Russel Allen commenting on being way happier with MP's replacement drummer not having "rockstar-issues" and actually helping the crew unload etc..
When did he say this?
https://joedaly.net/?p=244
Wow. I had no idea AM had a traffic snafu prior to this past year (which why would I? I'm not a fan).
And Russ's comments aren't even thinly veiled.
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i remember Russel Allen commenting on being way happier with MP's replacement drummer not having "rockstar-issues" and actually helping the crew unload etc..
When did he say this?
https://joedaly.net/?p=244 (https://joedaly.net/?p=244)
I'm very surprised this part from the interview didn't make headlines on blabbermouth
Q: Taking over for Mike Portnoy, A.J. has an unusually bright spotlight on him. With him in the band, how does the dynamic differ from the Portnoy years?
Russel Allen: The dynamic with him is better in some ways… it’s all better, I’ve got to be honest.
Drama aside I'll be getting this album next month, I haven't heard the two tracks that are out and will just listen to the whole album. I think after listening to MP's drumming for some 25 odd years, any album he plays on gets a listen from me regardless of circumstances.
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i remember Russel Allen commenting on being way happier with MP's replacement drummer not having "rockstar-issues" and actually helping the crew unload etc..
When did he say this?
https://joedaly.net/?p=244
Okay, but the way you quoted it, it makes it sound like Mike wasn't doing that sort of thing and A.J. does. But when you read the comment in context of the interview, it doesn't really sound like that is what Russ is saying at all. I mean, that could be the case. But his point is that even though A.J. was a HUGE rock star that played these HUGE festivals with TS, he will still be the guy helping the roadies pack the gear. It didn't really come across as the shot at MP that you imply it is.
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The thing I find sad about this is that we have a 79 page thread for this band and maybe 5 pages consist of discussing the music. The things Mike and Derek are saying are distracting from the music and casting a negative spotlight on the band, even if they don't mean to be doing this intentionally. I wish Mike would take these criticisms and use them as a guideline to change how he handles marketing and social media instead of shutting out anyone who has a negative word to say about him, because I'm pretty sure we all want him to find success.
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i remember Russel Allen commenting on being way happier with MP's replacement drummer not having "rockstar-issues" and actually helping the crew unload etc..
When did he say this?
https://joedaly.net/?p=244
Okay, but the way you quoted it, it makes it sound like Mike wasn't doing that sort of thing and A.J. does. But when you read the comment in context of the interview, it doesn't really sound like that is what Russ is saying at all. I mean, that could be the case. But his point is that even though A.J. was a HUGE rock star that played these HUGE festivals with TS, he will still be the guy helping the roadies pack the gear. It didn't really come across as the shot at MP that you imply it is.
That's how I read it too. Hey wait...I thought everyone here was a Portnoy Hater.
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The thing I find sad about this is that we have a 79 page thread for this band and maybe 5 pages consist of discussing the music. The things Mike and Derek are saying are distracting from the music and casting a negative spotlight on the band, even if they don't mean to be doing this intentionally. I wish Mike would take these criticisms and use them as a guideline to change how he handles marketing and social media instead of shutting out anyone who has a negative word to say about him, because I'm pretty sure we all want him to find success.
Yeah I don't know what is going on in his head. He seems to be quite irritated by fans sticking by Dream Theater even if they also liked Yhe Winery Dogs, Flying Colors, etc. I don't know why, plenty of people liked Blizzard of Oz and Heaven and Hell so it shouldn't come as a surprise. (Tons of other examples but I get annoyed writing on my phone)
I really hope he gets some good counseling. He's clearly in need of an emotional tune up. Again I still think he's a mostly good and cool guy but his impulsiveness and insecurities are bringing HIM down.
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I agree about him seeming like he is decent guy. I try to keep it even about him and his bands. I even bought both Flying Colours and the first Winery Dogs. If he puts out another project I like I would absolutely buy it. I would most likely but Sons of Apollo if it weren't for Derek. I think people would be more sympathetic towards him if he didn't throw a tantrum when people speak against him. He has that old testament God mentality. Praise me, be grateful for what I have done or else I shall banish you and bring down vengeance.
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He always comes off better in video interviews imo. When something touchy like DT is brought up (the Neal Morse doc that was posted earlier is a good example) he always seems reasonable and I can empathize with what he's saying.
Some people just don't do as well online. I'd rather not make a character judgement based on his online activities.
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He always comes off better in video interviews imo. When something touchy like DT is brought up (the Neal Morse doc that was posted earlier is a good example) he always seems reasonable and I can empathize with what he's saying.
Some people just don't do as well online. I'd rather not make a character judgement based on his online activities.
That's a good point. I think he knows he is on camera and has time to breath and think it through, I think with tweets and social media it is knee jerk reactions. Like I said before I do think he is a good guy at heart.
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i remember Russel Allen commenting on being way happier with MP's replacement drummer not having "rockstar-issues" and actually helping the crew unload etc..
When did he say this?
https://joedaly.net/?p=244
Okay, but the way you quoted it, it makes it sound like Mike wasn't doing that sort of thing and A.J. does. But when you read the comment in context of the interview, it doesn't really sound like that is what Russ is saying at all. I mean, that could be the case. But his point is that even though A.J. was a HUGE rock star that played these HUGE festivals with TS, he will still be the guy helping the roadies pack the gear. It didn't really come across as the shot at MP that you imply it is.
I dunno, the question was phrased as a direct comparison to MP. Then he responded that everything was better, and expounded upon it by saying those things. Maybe only the first sentence was meant to be a comparison to Portnoy, but it's hard to tell.
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Someone posted a pic on FB (I think on the inner circle page) at least an hour after Morsefest of Neal Morse out there vacuuming and helping clean up. It didn't shock me at all. It seems like something a great guy like Neal Morse would do.
I remember seeing that too and thinking the same thing. Neal just seems to be such a classy, down to earth guy.
I have often wondered what kind of influence Neal has on Mike as it seems like Mike is a much more subdued person when he's around Neal and I have always felt like Neal is good for Mike. You can see how much these two care about each other. I remember when I got TSoaD and watching the documentary, particularly the part that was posted yesterday on here where they were disagreeing about it being a double album. I had heard about this before I watched the documementary, but man it was very hard to watch. You could just see how it killed both of them and I'm so glad that they worked it out. I think Neal is the only one that could have had an impact on Mike like that to the point where he changed his mind. I wonder what Neal thinks about some of the things Mike does and if he ever talks to him about it or if he just stays out of it. I certainly don't think Mike is a bad person, I think sometimes he just acts too fast and acts with his heart when he should just take a step back and let some things go.
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Just watched the Coming Home video on Youtube again and I can't stop wondering about Bumblefoot playing riffs that we can't hear (at least I can't). Is it possible that this is not the final mix we're hearing, and that on album release it may sound different?
If I remember correctly that has been the case on the first AMob releases, right?
It wouldn't bug me if I only HEARD the song (I like it), but SEEING him play something I am unable to hear makes me think I'm missing something...
I think it probably is the final mix. I mean this album drops in less than a month, right? It should definitely be mixed and mastered by now and going into production to stock retail with the physical release.
I think the struggle to hear the guitar riffs comes from (1) the overly distorted kinda treble-like qualities of the bass guitar and (2) Derek's distorted key tones. When they riff on that main groove in the song, it sounds like all three guys are down in that similar register (with the bass down the octave) and the guitar gets washed out a bit. Add into that the drums being pretty darn loud in the mix and I think the guitar just got pushed back in the mix.
You're probably right, I forgot it's only a few weeks until album release.
That brings me to another question, though: Disc 2 of the 2CD version will contain instrumentals of the songs - How are they usually done? Is it the exact same mix with just the vocals "switched off" or are they different mixes?
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Usually? Same mix with the vocal tracks muted.
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Thought so, too, listening to the few albums I have that contain instrumental versions... Oh well. Still a chance of hearing a lot more of Bumblefoot's playing on the as of yet unreleased tracks. :metal
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Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.
Same here, hence I'm not too sold on the album (yet).
Is it ITPOE and TCOT like or Constant Motion and Rite of Passage like?
Given that there are no extended quiet sections like Beautiful Agony or Heretic, I guess the answer is CM/AROP by default. :P The "balls to the wall" metal vibe (no ballads), the overall song structures and the numerous technical/wanky bits just make me think MP was still in that modern DT mindset during the making process.
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A MP tweet I fully support: https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/911019066785255424 (https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/911019066785255424) :metal
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A MP tweet I fully support: https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/911019066785255424 (https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/911019066785255424) :metal
Make sure you wear a ADTOE shirt!!
I kid, I kid. Have a great time. I wish I could see this show. Hope Mike changes his mind somewhere along the way and he could eventually release a full show.
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Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.
Same here, hence I'm not too sold on the album (yet).
Is it ITPOE and TCOT like or Constant Motion and Rite of Passage like?
Given that there are no extended quiet sections like Beautiful Agony or Heretic, I guess the answer is CM/AROP by default. :P The "balls to the wall" metal vibe (no ballads), the overall song structures and the numerous technical/wanky bits just make me think MP was still in that modern DT mindset during the making process.
I'm okay with an album that sounds "like" Constant Motion/A Rite of Passage. Constant Motion is a great metal song. AROP is a bit...less great, but its flaws are specific, and I have no problem with the overall feel or vibe of the song whatsoever. So if Psychotic Symphony is in the vibe of those two songs, that's perfectly fine with me.
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A MP tweet I fully support: https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/911019066785255424 (https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/911019066785255424) :metal
That is one ugly dude. :) :) :)
I'll be there with you. I think it's going to be a good show.
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While I do think Mike acts rashly at times, I have to say this:
I've never known a guy that cares so much about... well, everyone. He's really passionate, and really emotional, to a fault at times. But he's also a very kind and giving person.
I had absolutely no reason to expect him to even remember who I was, but I was surprised that he actually remembered my name - after meeting me 3 times. In 2014 I did the VIP thing for Neal Morse band (btw, if you want to support a band monetarily - this is the absolute best way to do so). And I said "I don't know if you remember me", and he looked me over for a second and said "Of course I do. It's Kim, right?". Blew my mind. And asking him for anything in the recent years has always been met with kindness and accomodation.
Asking him for the interview in April was met with a joke - he had seen the James interview, and noticed that James consistenly called me "Tim". He pointed that out, jokingly saying that I could only interview him if "he could call me Tim". First of all - he saw the interview I did - second of all - he noticed that James called me the wrong name... And I'm not someone who's been in his face or been in this to get them to know -me-, I've always enjoyed being the guy that helped others meet their idols and standing back watching them enjoy it. Mike was the first who -really- showed that he knew me. Now, it's a different story, since I've been in DTs face since I took over the world wide fan club (except for Mangini - who apparently refuses to remember who I am).
So while I do know that Mike can be viewed as abrasive - I also know him from another side. I know he's the real deal. It's not fake when he's passionate. It's not fake when he's emotional and hurt by personal attacks. He's simply a human being who happens to be a well known music artist, but he also knows very well what it is to be a fan, and is very down to earth. That's why I love these guys, all of them. I can have conversations with any of them, and they treat me as thought they're actually interested. It may be fake, it may be a face they put on, but they try to see "the people", not just fans.
Of course, this personal attachment does make it harder for me to do some of my tasks like reviewing albums and such. But at the same time, I know that they all know that it's kinda my job to be honest about my opinions, and they value it..... except for that one time... ;)
As a somewhat frequent critic of the man, I will say that none of this really surprises me. It reminds me of a lady I worked with a long time ago. She was, let's say, difficult to get along with, but she had a handful or two of close friends who thought she was the greatest thing, and to them, she was. She would do anything for them, which I saw firsthand (her and I did not care for each other, but several of her close friends were also close friends of mine, so we often tolerated each other), but if you were someone she didn't care for, look out, because she would be aggressively be a raging bitch to you. It was astonishing to see how someone could be so nice to someone one minute and then flip the switch and be so mean to someone else the next.
So, while there are differences, Mike Portnoy, in some ways, reminds me of her. To the people that are in his corner, Mike Portnoy is the greatest thing ever, and he treats them well, but to those who have that audacity to not back him up 100% on everything, you are crap, and he shows little to no regard for you. If nothing else, it's fascination to watch.
Yeah, this is kind of my interpretation too. He's all about being the "fan friendly artist." Which is sort of an ego trip of its own. He has a certain level of condescension in his approach. People who buy your music, your art, aren't children who need to be treated like you're providing a charity towards. I haven't seen or heard of many fan interactions with him where he actually treated the other person like a normal person, it's always "MP" (his 3rd person references are a start) meeting "his fans," "his kids," or his "haters." Very binary, and very vain. Either you talk about how he "treats his fans" by releasing "official bootlegs" (releasing a product to buy is giving a treat to people who need to be treated?) or you see it all as a bit much, and end up having "Never Enough" written about you.
Add in DS and I genuinely wonder what the impact of this all will be on sales. I mean, if we're being frank, I don't think anyone expects this project to light it up monetarily regardless, but it can't be helping.
Given that we aren't talking about Taylor Swift numbers to begin with, I think it will have a negligible effect on net sales. They're going to do 50K to 100K regardless of what Derek tweets or doesn't tweet. Granted there will be a few people for whom "Derek's a douche, I'm not buying THIS now!", but there will also be those that say "HUH. Who's this Derek Kardashian dude? Prog kings, eh? No cheese, eh? I'll give this a listen."
The one time I met him - and Neal was present, for what that's worth - he looked tired, but was extremely "present", took time with every fan without it being a "rock star moment", and was engaging. He was nothing like the raving egomaniac who "needs counseling". Then again, it wasn't the forum for that. Who knows? Can you really know ANYONE without seeing them in all facets of their life?
As for doing loadouts... I have seen Brett Eldredge four times now (rising country star; bigger act than either AMob or Neal Morse; as a headliner, would probably play the same venues as Dream Theater, maybe a little bigger) and every time, his band came out and set up their own rigs, checked their own levels, etc. Really kind of refreshing if you ask me.
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A MP tweet I fully support: https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/911019066785255424 (https://twitter.com/MikePortnoy/status/911019066785255424) :metal
That is one ugly dude. :) :) :)
I'll be there with you. I think it's going to be a good show.
Enjoy both of you.... it's a hell of a show. Saw it this summer and it was a total blast!!!
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The one time I met him - and Neal was present, for what that's worth - he looked tired, but was extremely "present", took time with every fan without it being a "rock star moment", and was engaging. He was nothing like the raving egomaniac who "needs counseling". Then again, it wasn't the forum for that. Who knows? Can you really know ANYONE without seeing them in all facets of their life?
As for doing loadouts... I have seen Brett Eldredge four times now (rising country star; bigger act than either AMob or Neal Morse; as a headliner, would probably play the same venues as Dream Theater, maybe a little bigger) and every time, his band came out and set up their own rigs, checked their own levels, etc. Really kind of refreshing if you ask me.
I've met MP about 4 times after a gig ... no VIP. He has always been very approachable and no rock star attitude. I think the last time I met him was during the Dallas AMOB show. It was sad to see play MP at that kind of venue (Dallas Trees), which is great for 500 - 700 people, but I had been used to MP play for larger crowds. Anyways, the band gave it all and MP, Russell, and Orlando came out from the bus after the show. Everyone was pleasant. MP was the first out of the bus and chatted for about 15 mins.
As far as loudouts, I also saw the same thing with Devin Townsend's band. I think everyone was loading and loading out, except for Devin. Speaking of Devin, you guys should check out his biography (it's also available in Kindle version). He wrote a chapter on the business side of music and goes in great detail on how he does it financially with his band and he touches on this as well.
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Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.
Same here, hence I'm not too sold on the album (yet).
Is it ITPOE and TCOT like or Constant Motion and Rite of Passage like?
Given that there are no extended quiet sections like Beautiful Agony or Heretic, I guess the answer is CM/AROP by default. :P The "balls to the wall" metal vibe (no ballads), the overall song structures and the numerous technical/wanky bits just make me think MP was still in that modern DT mindset during the making process.
I'm okay with an album that sounds "like" Constant Motion/A Rite of Passage. Constant Motion is a great metal song. AROP is a bit...less great, but its flaws are specific, and I have no problem with the overall feel or vibe of the song whatsoever. So if Psychotic Symphony is in the vibe of those two songs, that's perfectly fine with me.
This is exactly how I feel. AROP is one of my least favorite DT songs although I do still like it and I love Constant Motion. Although this album seems like it's going to be a lot different than I had originally expected, I have no doubt I will still love it.
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Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.
Same here, hence I'm not too sold on the album (yet).
Is it ITPOE and TCOT like or Constant Motion and Rite of Passage like?
Given that there are no extended quiet sections like Beautiful Agony or Heretic, I guess the answer is CM/AROP by default. :P The "balls to the wall" metal vibe (no ballads), the overall song structures and the numerous technical/wanky bits just make me think MP was still in that modern DT mindset during the making process.
I'm okay with an album that sounds "like" Constant Motion/A Rite of Passage. Constant Motion is a great metal song. AROP is a bit...less great, but its flaws are specific, and I have no problem with the overall feel or vibe of the song whatsoever. So if Psychotic Symphony is in the vibe of those two songs, that's perfectly fine with me.
This is exactly how I feel. AROP is one of my least favorite DT songs although I do still like it and I love Constant Motion. Although this album seems like it's going to be a lot different than I had originally expected, I have no doubt I will still love it.
I like Constant Motion as well. I even like Mike's vocals on it, the back and forth works for that song. A Rite of Passage not so much until the instrumental part.. The riff is pretty bad.
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Yea, SC and BCSL are two of my least fav DT albums, so that comparison doesn't make me too excited.
Same here, hence I'm not too sold on the album (yet).
Is it ITPOE and TCOT like or Constant Motion and Rite of Passage like?
Given that there are no extended quiet sections like Beautiful Agony or Heretic, I guess the answer is CM/AROP by default. :P The "balls to the wall" metal vibe (no ballads), the overall song structures and the numerous technical/wanky bits just make me think MP was still in that modern DT mindset during the making process.
I'm okay with an album that sounds "like" Constant Motion/A Rite of Passage. Constant Motion is a great metal song. AROP is a bit...less great, but its flaws are specific, and I have no problem with the overall feel or vibe of the song whatsoever. So if Psychotic Symphony is in the vibe of those two songs, that's perfectly fine with me.
This is exactly how I feel. AROP is one of my least favorite DT songs although I do still like it and I love Constant Motion. Although this album seems like it's going to be a lot different than I had originally expected, I have no doubt I will still love it.
I like Constant Motion as well. I even like Mike's vocals on it, the back and forth works for that song. A Rite of Passage not so much until the instrumental part.. The riff is pretty bad.
It's the opposite for me. I like A Right of Passage just fine, but Constant Motion is just OK, and I don't care for Mike's vocals.
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I never actually paid attention to how badass the drum part to Constant Motion is until I played the drums on Rock Band 2. The way it starts off with almost nothing at the start of the guitar solo, and then builds and builds every couple measures until the end, it's ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome. I hope there are moments like that on the epics of SoA.
AROP and Wither both bring BC&SL down majorly, though. Can't stand 'em.
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The one time I met him - and Neal was present, for what that's worth - he looked tired, but was extremely "present", took time with every fan without it being a "rock star moment", and was engaging. He was nothing like the raving egomaniac who "needs counseling". Then again, it wasn't the forum for that. Who knows? Can you really know ANYONE without seeing them in all facets of their life?
As for doing loadouts... I have seen Brett Eldredge four times now (rising country star; bigger act than either AMob or Neal Morse; as a headliner, would probably play the same venues as Dream Theater, maybe a little bigger) and every time, his band came out and set up their own rigs, checked their own levels, etc. Really kind of refreshing if you ask me.
I've met MP about 4 times after a gig ... no VIP. He has always been very approachable and no rock star attitude. I think the last time I met him was during the Dallas AMOB show. It was sad to see play MP at that kind of venue (Dallas Trees), which is great for 500 - 700 people, but I had been used to MP play for larger crowds. Anyways, the band gave it all and MP, Russell, and Orlando came out from the bus after the show. Everyone was pleasant. MP was the first out of the bus and chatted for about 15 mins.
I met Mike once in a Sam Ash music store back in '98 or '99. Mike was shopping with his wife, but he still took the time to chat for a bit with me. I remember his wife called him over to look at something and rather than blow me off he said something like "hey come over here with me" to me which I thought was so cool. Then when I was checking out he was in front of me and we chatted again and he was joking because I was buying a pair of his drum sticks that he thinks he gets like 12 cents every time someone buys one. He was a very cool and down to earth guy and it always left a great impression on me.
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I met Mike once in a Sam Ash music store back in '98 or '99. Mike was shopping with his wife, but he still took the time to chat for a bit with me. I remember his wife called him over to look at something and rather than blow me off he said something like "hey come over here with me" to me which I thought was so cool. Then when I was checking out he was in front of me and we chatted again and he was joking because I was buying a pair of his drum sticks that he thinks he gets like 12 cents every time someone buys one. He was a very cool and down to earth guy and it always left a great impression on me.
That's cool. He should have said, "Hey, why don't you just give me 12 cents and buy these cheapter sticks over here?" :lol Kidding.
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I guess I should say real quick - I was posting in this thread as Vakaren but Bosk was nice enough to change it to my mp.com forum name. :)
Anyway, I have met Mike several times and he's always been very nice. He seems totally different from his online persona.
Of course an in person meeting is going to be different than a forum discussion. I'm not going to go up to him in person and say anything critical, whereas on a forum I'll talk both about what I like and don't like. I suppose if I tried he wouldn't be quite so friendly. :) Then again, I did once tell James that I'd been hoping for a little variety in the set list, and I was nice and respectful about, and he was also very nice in return.
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I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.
With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.
I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.
Just spit-balling here.
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I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.
With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.
I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.
Just spit-balling here.
I don't know what I was expecting, to be honest. I guess at least a little FII, and I could swear MP said something about them picking up where they left off from that. I don't remember where though. I like SC and Black Clouds, but there's a lot of room there for them to put out an album in that vein that I could like, dislike, or feel kinda meh about.
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I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.
With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.
I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.
Just spit-balling here.
That makes sense because Chaos and Black Clouds was the direction that MP wanted to go while ADTOE was where JP and Jordan wanted to go. I personally prefer the ADTOE direction but I know many fans liked the direction they were going in.
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Well, when I hear "kings of prog" and "taking over the world" the first thing that pops into my head isn't Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds. :) I think more along the lines of SFAM, Six Degrees, I&W, that kind of MP-era prog metal. I do prefer the ADTOE direction. I suppose it's obvious by now though that that isn't where MP was heading, in fact, outside of the Neal Morse Band, he hasn't really done much 'prog' stuff since leaving DT. (I don't consider Flying Colors prog and Transatlantic is a very occasional project)
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Well that's the thing. Everyone hypes their new album at least a little bit, but it's one thing to say "this is our best album" and another to say that you're the kings of prog metal and some of the other stuff they've been saying. An album like that shouldn't even have a track like Coming Home on it. If Signs of the Time was the worst thing on the album and everything else was mind-blowing, OK. But as it stands now, even if everything else really is mind blowing, Coming Home is going to feel out of place and bring the album down a bit.
This could be a great album with a weak track or two, but even that's going to feel like a disappointment compared to the bar they have been trying to set. If you say what they've been saying, then you better come out with something that truly blows people away. Like Haken, or Fates Warning's last album, etc. Not that it should sound like either of those things, but it should have that kind of impact. Not make people feel like it's a decent metal album with great playing but nothing really special.
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I never actually paid attention to how badass the drum part to Constant Motion is until I played the drums on Rock Band 2. The way it starts off with almost nothing at the start of the guitar solo, and then builds and builds every couple measures until the end, it's ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome. I hope there are moments like that on the epics of SoA.
AROP and Wither both bring BC&SL down majorly, though. Can't stand 'em.
Ah, see now I like Wither a lot actually. AROP I'm kinda meh on; I don't hate it, there's some cool stuff in there, but I've always really enjoyed Wither.
And I agree on the Constant Motion drums. I never paid much attention to them until I met a DT fan in college who played the drums. We jammed one day, and I suggested we learn that one, thinking it might not be *too* difficult. He was like, "Uh...that instrumental section is actually kinda crazy for me."
Also, no!!! What happened to Pikachu?
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I might be off topic here, but I think that SC has improved significantly with age. I listen to it a lot on my long runs, and there's so much to absorb there...ITPOE alone, is a song I always find interesting when I listen to nowadays, whereas I hated it when the album came out.
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An album like that shouldn't even have a track like Coming Home on it.
??? Why? Aside from whether or not you personally like the song, why "shouldn't" it be included? To use Dream Theater as an example, which I think is a relevant comparison, there are plenty of relatively "straightforward" songs on the albums, such as The Silent Man, Hollow Years, As I Am, These Walls, Forsaken, and Wither, to name a few. Why is Coming Home a problem to the point that it "shouldn't" even be on the album? That makes no sense to me.
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I never actually paid attention to how badass the drum part to Constant Motion is until I played the drums on Rock Band 2. The way it starts off with almost nothing at the start of the guitar solo, and then builds and builds every couple measures until the end, it's ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome. I hope there are moments like that on the epics of SoA.
AROP and Wither both bring BC&SL down majorly, though. Can't stand 'em.
Ah, see now I like Wither a lot actually. AROP I'm kinda meh on; I don't hate it, there's some cool stuff in there, but I've always really enjoyed Wither.
And I agree on the Constant Motion drums. I never paid much attention to them until I met a DT fan in college who played the drums. We jammed one day, and I suggested we learn that one, thinking it might not be *too* difficult. He was like, "Uh...that instrumental section is actually kinda crazy for me."
Also, no!!! What happened to Pikachu?
That's funny. Sometimes a song sounds fairly easy until you attempt to play it. I think the beginning of ITPOTE has some of my favorite MP drumming
I also like Wither. It definitely grew on me. I know what the song is about and I know Petrucci wrote the lyrics but this one line I always think of MP leaving the band. Him trying to get all of these bands off the ground but nothing sticking. It's not a knock on him because he always has work and people who want to play with him and has had a successful career, he just hasn't found a home base band again yes. Hopefully he will with Sons of Apollo.
The thought of staring over
Leaves me paralyzed
Oh wait that was too positive towards MP. Since I am a DTF member what I meant to say is "U SUK PortnoSKILLZ"
:)
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I might be off topic here, but I think that SC has improved significantly with age. I listen to it a lot on my long runs, and there's so much to absorb there...ITPOE alone, is a song I always find interesting when I listen to nowadays, whereas I hated it when the album came out.
Loved the album when it came out and adore it even more today. The shorter songs are cool, and the longer numbers have flights of sheer instrumental batshit insanity that make me smile every time. Is it always tasteful? Hell no, but do I care? Also no. I'm really happy they made an album like that, where they just seemed to pile all their virtuoso excesses and 'showiness' onto a single album. I also don't mind one bit the fantasy lyrics, and to that end, only Prophets of War is a clunker to me. Not a fan of lyrics which lay out stale revelations about war and wealth.
If SoA has instrumental sections like the ones in Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night, Ministry, or ITPOE 2, I'll be happy. And if they can throw in some of the breathy Floydian moments like the beginning of ITPOE 2, even better (though on that latter point I'm less hopeful from what people who've heard the album are saying).
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I never actually paid attention to how badass the drum part to Constant Motion is until I played the drums on Rock Band 2. The way it starts off with almost nothing at the start of the guitar solo, and then builds and builds every couple measures until the end, it's ridiculous. Ridiculously awesome. I hope there are moments like that on the epics of SoA.
AROP and Wither both bring BC&SL down majorly, though. Can't stand 'em.
Ah, see now I like Wither a lot actually. AROP I'm kinda meh on; I don't hate it, there's some cool stuff in there, but I've always really enjoyed Wither.
And I agree on the Constant Motion drums. I never paid much attention to them until I met a DT fan in college who played the drums. We jammed one day, and I suggested we learn that one, thinking it might not be *too* difficult. He was like, "Uh...that instrumental section is actually kinda crazy for me."
Also, no!!! What happened to Pikachu?
I hang out with my best friend who played drums (was a beast, but it just isn't part of his life these days, nowhere to practice) almost every weekend and we always watch MP clips or listen to his songs and discuss his drumming and songs he's written. He loves TDEN and those passages of Constant Motion. Watching drummers play it on YouTube always blows my mind.
I might bring Pikachu back someday. This is my last.fm avatar though so it's nice and consistent :lol
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An album like that shouldn't even have a track like Coming Home on it.
??? Why? Aside from whether or not you personally like the song, why "shouldn't" it be included? To use Dream Theater as an example, which I think is a relevant comparison, there are plenty of relatively "straightforward" songs on the albums, such as The Silent Man, Hollow Years, As I Am, These Walls, Forsaken, and Wither, to name a few. Why is Coming Home a problem to the point that it "shouldn't" even be on the album? That makes no sense to me.
In my opinion, which I probably should have specified in the first place - if you're putting out an album that you proclaim is going to take everyone by storm and blow everyone way and you're going to be the kings of prog metal etc etc etc - then while not every song has to be The Dance of Eternity, it shouldn't include such an incredibly bland, generic, we've all heard this 100 times before, super weak track. It's not just because it's straight forward. I'm not sure if I'm explaining what I'm thinking very well here. It just doesn't feel to me like it belongs on the album of people who want to be considered as putting out this massive prog metal album that is going to take everyone by storm. Whereas a ballad - like The Silent Man - feels perfectly fine on Awake and doesn't at all lessen the album's impact. This could just be me. When you hear I&W or Awake, or even Train of Thought, even though not everything is complex, it feels like you're listening to a prog metal album from start to finish. So... I dunno how to say exactly what I think. Coming Home doesn't feel like it fits the way As I Am does. Someone described is as "bro rock"and I guess I probably agree. I might be the only one who feels that way, but I certainly hope the rest of the album doesn't have more of what Coming Home brings to the table.
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I might be off topic here, but I think that SC has improved significantly with age. I listen to it a lot on my long runs, and there's so much to absorb there...ITPOE alone, is a song I always find interesting when I listen to nowadays, whereas I hated it when the album came out.
Loved the album when it came out and adore it even more today. The shorter songs are cool, and the longer numbers have flights of sheer instrumental batshit insanity that make me smile every time. Is it always tasteful? Hell no, but do I care? Also no. I'm really happy they made an album like that, where they just seemed to pile all their virtuoso excesses and 'showiness' onto a single album. I also don't mind one bit the fantasy lyrics, and to that end, only Prophets of War is a clunker to me. Not a fan of lyrics which lay out stale revelations about war and wealth.
If SoA has instrumental sections like the ones in Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night, Ministry, or ITPOE 2, I'll be happy. And if they can throw in some of the breathy Floydian moments like the beginning of ITPOE 2, even better (though on that latter point I'm less hopeful from what people who've heard the album are saying).
I wouldn't hold your breath. (no pun intended)
From Derek's twitter
There is also no cheesy breathy vocals or "fake anger" vocals on @SonsOfApollo1 - we promise!!!
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I might be off topic here, but I think that SC has improved significantly with age. I listen to it a lot on my long runs, and there's so much to absorb there...ITPOE alone, is a song I always find interesting when I listen to nowadays, whereas I hated it when the album came out.
Loved the album when it came out and adore it even more today. The shorter songs are cool, and the longer numbers have flights of sheer instrumental batshit insanity that make me smile every time. Is it always tasteful? Hell no, but do I care? Also no. I'm really happy they made an album like that, where they just seemed to pile all their virtuoso excesses and 'showiness' onto a single album. I also don't mind one bit the fantasy lyrics, and to that end, only Prophets of War is a clunker to me. Not a fan of lyrics which lay out stale revelations about war and wealth.
If SoA has instrumental sections like the ones in Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night, Ministry, or ITPOE 2, I'll be happy. And if they can throw in some of the breathy Floydian moments like the beginning of ITPOE 2, even better (though on that latter point I'm less hopeful from what people who've heard the album are saying).
SC has aged pretty well for me except for Dark Eternal Night. I usually skip that song although the outro is pretty badass. I do however, love Dark Eternal Night live version in the Forsaken EP. That song is full of energy in a live setting. Pumps me up every time.
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I've always described SC as a giant exhale for DT.
After the emotion of Score, it just felt like DT came in for SC and "winged it". They didn't take themselves so seriously and the album comes across that way. It comes across as fun. It's easy on the ears.
It has great variety, and while he wasn't asked to truly display his range, I think it's one of James' best albums.
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I hardly ever play SC. there are a few good songs there but too much I don't like. DEN, CM, Repentance, PoW... too much to put up with for the tracks I like.
Having played the two SoA songs again a few times, I'm liking them more.
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I just listened to Cominf Home for the second time (as I usually try not to listen to music much before an album is released) and I really like it. Yes different than I had pictured we would get from this band, but it's a very solid song IMO. I do get a pissed every time I see Derek as I really can't get past what a jerk he seems to be, but other than that I really enjoyed it.
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I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.
With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.
I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.
Just spit-balling here.
That makes sense because Chaos and Black Clouds was the direction that MP wanted to go while ADTOE was where JP and Jordan wanted to go. I personally prefer the ADTOE direction but I know many fans liked the direction they were going in.
Ya know, a lot of people say that but there is no real proof that Mike was responsible for that direction. In fact, in the SC documentary he said he intentionally held back from any sort of plan so they could see where the music went. I think John was far more responsible than people give him credit (or blame) for. For the record, SC is one of my two favorite albums along with ADTOE.
One thing I can say is I don't think Jordan was too fond over the direction of those albums. I'm sure he had fun with it and he is a pretty agreeable dude but when I met him in 2011 and I complimented him on the album he said something along the lines of, "Ya know, this is the first album we've done in a while that I actually want to sit down and listen to." Obviously Mike is responsible for some of the heaviness especially the growl vocals but I think the fact that DT continues to play Dark Eternal Night shows that the rest of the guys were pretty happy with the album.
For the record, I appear to be one of the few that loves Rite of Passage (my favorite from the album) and Constant Motion including Mike's vocals. I thought he overdid the vocals live. Metropolis, for instance, sound much better with just James and no harmonizing than with Mike. Constant Motion kicks ass with the back and forth.
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I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.
With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.
I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.
Just spit-balling here.
That makes sense because Chaos and Black Clouds was the direction that MP wanted to go while ADTOE was where JP and Jordan wanted to go. I personally prefer the ADTOE direction but I know many fans liked the direction they were going in.
Ya know, a lot of people say that but there is no real proof that Mike was responsible for that direction. In fact, in the SC documentary he said he intentionally held back from any sort of plan so they could see where the music went. I think John was far more responsible than people give him credit (or blame) for. For the record, SC is one of my two favorite albums along with ADTOE.
...
Obviously Mike is responsible for some of the heaviness especially the growl vocals but I think the fact that DT continues to play Dark Eternal Night shows that the rest of the guys were pretty happy with the album.
Exactly. John is and has always been the primary writer on DT's albums. As a result, the albums have always taken on whatever musical vibe he was writing to. Not that Mike didn't have a lot of input as well or that Jordan didn't compose. But John has always been the primary composer.
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For the record, I appear to be one of the few that loves Rite of Passage (my favorite from the album)
I think its chorus is one of the best the band ever wrote, and I've come to enjoy the instrumental section. The main riff is a tad too similar to the one used brilliantly on Misunderstood (which on certain days is my favourite DT song), but it doesn't detract much from my enjoyment of the song. The only track I never really listen to on Black Clouds is the opener, though even that has some great moments for me.
Your post made me rethink some things I'd taken for granted. I'd always assumed it was MP who was steering the band in the metal direction, but thinking more about it based on what you wrote, I see it's probably not entirely the case. I remember now (was it the Score DVD?) where JP spoke of his desire to write the all-metal album which became Train of Thought, having seen the fan reaction to all their heavier songs. And let's face it, you don't write a sphincter-loosening riff like The Dark Eternal Night if you're not into metal.
My single favourite passage of Dream Theater music is the opening to The Count of Tuscany. It somehow combines crushing heaviness with a sense of space and 'breathing', to use that word again. I'd love to know how that was composed, how they built all those layers, because it's genius to me. And that's what I meant when I said I'm hoping for similar things in the SoA album. Music which has moments of real tension and dynamics and has the confidence to leave spaces and silences, and takes its time to build an atmosphere.
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My single favourite passage of Dream Theater music is the opening to The Count of Tuscany.
It's fantastic. The entire musical track of TCOT is one of their very best.
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My single favourite passage of Dream Theater music is the opening to The Count of Tuscany.
It's fantastic. The entire musical track of TCOT is one of their very best.
It really is. I usually name it as my favourite Dream Theater song. It has everything that makes the band uniquely brilliant at what they do in my opinion.
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Yeah, The Count of Tuscany really is a brilliant piece of music, even if you aren't a fan of the lyrics (I personally enjoy them). From start to end that song is just magical, I can't say enough good things about it in its entirety.. It'll be interesting to see how far Derek takes the prog synths on the epics, I wonder if he uses any spacey pads to give those longer songs some 'epic' middle section. Spacey synth pads make me wet.
Re: Jordan on SC and ADTOE being the first album in a while he'd sit down and listen to - I can believe it. I believe there's something in the Lifting Shadows book about Jordan's involvement with Train of Thought, and how he hadn't even heard Master of Puppets etc. at the time, so he had to listen to a few metal staples, and even take breaks in the studio from how heavy it was getting. Not sure how exhausting it actually was for him, but Jordan definitely doesn't come from an actual metal background. His solo stuff really proves that, both the prog synth stuff and the piano albums.
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It'll be interesting to see how far Derek takes the prog synths on the epics, I wonder if he uses any spacey pads to give those longer songs some 'epic' middle section. Spacey synth pads make me wet.
I guess like many people waiting for the SoA album, I've spent more time than usual recently getting re-acquainted with DS's work on FII, Change of Seasons and Once in a Livetime, and what stands out for me in his favour is his skill at crafting an atmosphere. The intro to Trial of Tears for example (a top 3 DT track for me), or Lines in the Sand. The chords on Anna Lee are beautiful (I'm not much of a DT scholar - did he write that song? He seems not to like it much these days).
I have a suspicion (and hope it's proven wrong) that the first album by SoA will be overwhelmingly focused on the fast and busy 'metal virtuosity' definition of 'prog metal', what some are calling 'Adrenaline Mob with keyboards', but if they have some success and get around to being able to make a second album, I hope they'll feel comfortable enough not to have to prove their chops but to slow it all down sometimes and make an album with atmosphere.
I'm talking here before I've heard the album though. For all I know those 10 minute pieces may be what I'm hoping for, we'll see.
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I remember an interview with JP where he was asked about some of those albums in a way that would have made it easy for him to distance himself from them, and he said he stood by all of their albums. I don't remember exactly when this was but I don't think it was long after the split. I was happy to hear him say that, even though those albums aren't my favorite. (And I still like them and am happy to have them as part of DT's body of work; I just prefer other albums more.)
I did get the impression that Mike was behind the heavy vocals, and I think he was also perhaps pushing for heavier music, so I definitely think he influenced that direction.
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Let's not forget how heavy James last two solo albums are, so I would definitely think he leans towards the heavier stuff as well.
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For the record, I appear to be one of the few that loves Rite of Passage (my favorite from the album)
I think its chorus is one of the best the band ever wrote, and I've come to enjoy the instrumental section. The main riff is a tad too similar to the one used brilliantly on Misunderstood (which on certain days is my favourite DT song),
Oh man, not to get too off topic but I'm glad someone else loves that song. That and Blind Faith go together perfectly. Even though they aren't part of a grander song or concept, I almost feel like they have to be played together. Fortunately they played Blind Faith in 2007 I think, and I got to hear it live but I've never gotten the opportunity to hear Misunderstood.
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Misunderstood is a top 3 DT song for me as well
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This is not Sons of Apollo related, but it's Portnoy related. I was just reading a Q&A with him in Prog magazine's May issue, and I was shocked to learn that his wife hates prog. They asked him if he's ever been on a "prog date." He said...
"I've been with my wife for 27 years and she hates prog. If I'm playing with Avenged Sevenfold she loves it, but Transatlantic? No. I've never been able to convert her to the prog side."
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This is not Sons of Apollo related, but it's Portnoy related. I was just reading a Q&A with him in Prog magazine's May issue, and I was shocked to learn that his wife hates prog. They asked him if he's ever been on a "prog date." He said...
"I've been wife my wife for 27 years and she hates prog. If I'm playing with Avenged Sevenfold she loves it, but Transatlantic? No. I've never been able to convert her to the prog side."
Yeah, she's more into the metal side of music. She loved Adrenaline Mob's Omerta, and considered it the best thing MP had ever done. Each to their own, of course. I actually enjoy Omerta for what it is, and I can see how metal fans would love it, but frankly I'd be a bit disheartened if I played my wife Octavarium followed by Undaunted and she said I ought to be exploring the latter more. But I'm really not much of a metal fan.
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I remember that when AMob was starting out. I'm obviously not going to say anything negative about her, so if it comes out that way I apologize. But I remember AMob wasn't well received on his forum, and she posted (which she used to do a lot more of way back when, and hadn't regularly in a long time), basically saying that it wasn't surprising that we prog fans don't like it, but real metalheads were loving "the mob." Which if I remember right I think I was listening to an old Pantera album at the time, or something a "metalhead" would listen to (while I don't care for bands like TA). But I get it, just as MP and every other artist has to say whatever they're releasing is their best ever work, she had the same role.
What hits me more is MP's "if you have an open mind you'll love this band." Again, this band is RIGHT in the wheel house of the majority of boards I post on, at least as far as genre goes. He's not exactly going into a baptist church and asking them to consider the teachings of the Buddha. Blaming reception on fans being jaded just doesn't sit with me.
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I think he just expects fans to just grab every single thing he spoon feeds them. I remember him being dismayed at some fans saying they didn't know about the Neal Morse Band album or tour earlier this year, almost like, "I recommended it! How can you not know about it??"
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You're not a tr00 fan unless you keep tabs on him and social media all the time :)
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You're not a tr00 fan unless you keep tabs on him and social media all the time :)
Pretty much. I know there are questions that people keep asking that have been answered but he responds to that stuff in such a condescending way. Dude, just ignore them! He loves social media and that's fine but he seems to use it as a way to bitch about his fans way too much. Step back. It'd be better for everyone.
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You're not a tr00 fan unless you keep tabs on him and social media all the time :)
Pretty much. I know there are questions that people keep asking that have been answered but he responds to that stuff in such a condescending way. Dude, just ignore them! He loves social media and that's fine but he seems to use it as a way to bitch about his fans way too much. Step back. It'd be better for everyone.
At least he only bitches about his fans in social media, and hasn't written a song about it.
Wait...
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I think he just expects fans to just grab every single thing he spoon feeds them. I remember him being dismayed at some fans saying they didn't know about the Neal Morse Band album or tour earlier this year, almost like, "I recommended it! How can you not know about it??"
Yeah. I don't think he understands how casual most music fans are. Not just his fans but all fans. Sure there are a lot that will travel hours to go see him. But the vast majority just hit the like button on Facebook because they figure "oh yeah I like that guy." I don't follow him on Facebook but when I've gone to his page I see that there are six or seven mutual friends that like him. of those I'm not sure if any, maybe one, would ever make the effort to travel more than 10 to 15 minutes to see one of his shows. Even then most of them probably wouldn't bother. That's the thing about social media which he doesn't seem to be able to grasp. It's very easy to hit the like button. And he has over 1 million people that have done that. It's very easy to type "your new album sucks." It's very easy to type "go back to Dream Theater." It's easy to type" you're the greatest drummer of all time." But it's still not that easy to attend a concert that's two or three or five hours away and take off work.
That's also a good reason to try not to piss off people that will actually take the time to go to a message board and have a constructive discussion. Those are the people most likely to travel a couple hours to see you and buy the new album even though hardly anybody buy CDs anymore.
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You're not a tr00 fan unless you keep tabs on him and social media all the time :)
Pretty much. I know there are questions that people keep asking that have been answered but he responds to that stuff in such a condescending way. Dude, just ignore them! He loves social media and that's fine but he seems to use it as a way to bitch about his fans way too much. Step back. It'd be better for everyone.
At least he only bitches about his fans in social media, and hasn't written a song about it.
Wait...
Oh yes. 'I'm Amazing and You Suck'. Good track
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You're not a tr00 fan unless you keep tabs on him and social media all the time :)
Pretty much. I know there are questions that people keep asking that have been answered but he responds to that stuff in such a condescending way. Dude, just ignore them! He loves social media and that's fine but he seems to use it as a way to bitch about his fans way too much. Step back. It'd be better for everyone.
At least he only bitches about his fans in social media, and hasn't written a song about it.
Wait...
Oh yes. 'I'm Amazing and You Suck'. Good track
I think Muse did a wonderful job covering that song.
Wait...
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#rockstarproblems
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This is not Sons of Apollo related, but it's Portnoy related. I was just reading a Q&A with him in Prog magazine's May issue, and I was shocked to learn that his wife hates prog. They asked him if he's ever been on a "prog date." He said...
"I've been with my wife for 27 years and she hates prog. If I'm playing with Avenged Sevenfold she loves it, but Transatlantic? No. I've never been able to convert her to the prog side."
Not surprising I suppose. Marlene, Rena Petrucci and I believe Myung's wife were in an all-female thrash metal band Meanstreak in the late 80's.
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Didn't Threshold release a 10 minute song from what I consider their new Prog Masterpiece?
If you meant Lost in Translation, that's one brilliant single caused me to actually buy Threshold album for the 1st time :tup
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I would love to get that shirt of the SF just as the one Jaci Gillette it's wearing
(https://preview.ibb.co/kZmaKQ/22016698_10156808337044569_573979159_o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dyWmR5)
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I would love to get that shirt of the SF just as the one Jaci Gillette it's wearing
(https://preview.ibb.co/kZmaKQ/22016698_10156808337044569_573979159_o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dyWmR5)
Looks like a lively crowd! :lol
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Even the naysayers in this thread are still gonna buy this album when it comes out. You know they are,, OH It's true! :biggrin:
I guess in a round about way I will....because the only way I'm listening to the entire album is if it's on Apple Music....which I suspect it will be being the two singles are on it. But my $$ is going to Apple....not SOA
It'll filter through; they'll get theirs. It'll be $0.01 on the dollar but they'll get theirs. :) :)
Maybe even less than that.
I'll never understand why some would rather give their money to a technology company for music rather than rewarding the professional musicians who created that music themselves.
I always make sure that as much of my money as possible goes to the artists themselves, if I've decided I like them and what they do. Sometimes (as in the recent case of a huge order I made with the band Swans) that will involve having their albums shipped over from the US rather than just using Amazon UK, which would have been a hell of a lot cheaper for me, but Michael Gira (the guy behind Swans) would have seen only a small percentage of the cash.
This is why, in this day and age of cheap streaming, artists like SoA can't avoid too many PR disasters if they want as many people as possible to buy their physical media, merchandise, concert tickets, etc. New bands in their position can't afford to take the attitude of "meh, your loss", because it literally isn't, it's theirs. Just as I will buy the expensive deluxe versions of albums in order to get cash to groups like (this week alone) Cradle of Filth or Godspeed You Black Emperor, so I'll choose to withhold it from bands like SoA if I feel its keyboard player is behaving like an ass.
It's never been more vital to the financial success of a band to have excellent PR than now, because you have to convince people not just to listen to your music (which is easily done these days), but to shell out for it too. Back on topic, that's why I was surprised MP didn't tell DS to knock it off, but instead persisted with "It's just his humor, lighten up or I'll ban you".
I also tend to appreciate the music more if I make an investment in it. Can't do that for everyone and it can be a high bar. Sometimes the tough decisions have to be made. Seems like some music is more disposable than it should be.
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I'm with Stadler about Social Media being the cause of many things happening to people psychologically. And this decable is a product of Social Media. MP and DS are the kinds of people that this platform definately breaks on.
Definitely a bigger picture issue at work here.
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I'm with Stadler about Social Media being the cause of many things happening to people psychologically. And this decable is a product of Social Media. MP and DS are the kinds of people that this platform definately breaks on.
Definitely a bigger picture issue at work here.
Mediums are never the cause or the source. It's just us. We find new ways to be horrible and we exploit them. It's us.
It's not social media. It's not religion. It's not politics. It's not any of those thing. It's just us. We just found new freedoms to act in ways we were otherwise told not to act.
It's also possible that Mr. T is to blame for all of this.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/d2/6d/c0/d26dc040e4e6a34fa1d3e19a5f508a69--karaoke-funny-karaoke-party.jpg)
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Social media allows us to say things we would never say to somebody face to face for fear of retribution. You get to say a lot when nobody's right in front of you.
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I have mathematical equations that support my theory, I just can't post them here. So you'll have to simply trust me.
I haven't confirmed it, but it's still a large possibility. Mr. T is not to be trusted. More on this later.
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I have mathematical equations that support my theory,
Not sure that adds up.
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I have mathematical equations that support my theory,
Not sure that adds up.
Maybe, but it doesn't subtract from my argument.
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Stop ÷ us you two! :lol
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(https://i.imgflip.com/1efk1t.jpg)
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You're not a tr00 fan unless you keep tabs on him and social media all the time :)
Tweet Secret still exist?
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I think he just expects fans to just grab every single thing he spoon feeds them. I remember him being dismayed at some fans saying they didn't know about the Neal Morse Band album or tour earlier this year, almost like, "I recommended it! How can you not know about it??"
Yeah. I don't think he understands how casual most music fans are. Not just his fans but all fans. Sure there are a lot that will travel hours to go see him. But the vast majority just hit the like button on Facebook because they figure "oh yeah I like that guy." I don't follow him on Facebook but when I've gone to his page I see that there are six or seven mutual friends that like him. of those I'm not sure if any, maybe one, would ever make the effort to travel more than 10 to 15 minutes to see one of his shows. Even then most of them probably wouldn't bother. That's the thing about social media which he doesn't seem to be able to grasp. It's very easy to hit the like button. And he has over 1 million people that have done that. It's very easy to type "your new album sucks." It's very easy to type "go back to Dream Theater." It's easy to type" you're the greatest drummer of all time." But it's still not that easy to attend a concert that's two or three or five hours away and take off work.
That's also a good reason to try not to piss off people that will actually take the time to go to a message board and have a constructive discussion. Those are the people most likely to travel a couple hours to see you and buy the new album even though hardly anybody buy CDs anymore.
Excellent analysis! you completely get what a social media is like, the almost randomness of it. For example I make a joke about small shows, regarding the attendance, I say "You want to know how many people will be there? go and see how many clicked on I will attend, and then divide that in half". People see a concert announced five months away, go "Cool, I'll go!" and click on that, and then they just forget it or when the day comes, it's raining, there are no buddies to go with, there were other commitments etc...
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I would love to get that shirt of the SF just as the one Jaci Gillette it's wearing
(https://preview.ibb.co/kZmaKQ/22016698_10156808337044569_573979159_o.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dyWmR5)
Looks like a lively crowd! :lol
It was lively on the floor. :)
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Candid shot of DT fans reacting to Derek's #NoCheeseWiz tweets
(https://s26.postimg.org/hjeadxki1/dtsts.jpg)
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:lol
You need to photoshop the face of the dude sleeping.
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Best I could do in a few minutes, I'm not that good :lol
(https://s26.postimg.org/j8ryzqpl5/sdfsad.jpg)
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Candid shot of DT fans reacting to Derek's #NoCheeseWiz tweets
(https://s26.postimg.org/hjeadxki1/dtsts.jpg)
:rollin
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In the original picture, the guy in the grey shirt staring at Max Portnoy: what it's he thinking? GO!
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I'm with Stadler about Social Media being the cause of many things happening to people psychologically. And this decable is a product of Social Media. MP and DS are the kinds of people that this platform definately breaks on.
Definitely a bigger picture issue at work here.
Mediums are never the cause or the source. It's just us. We find new ways to be horrible and we exploit them. It's us.
It's not social media. It's not religion. It's not politics. It's not any of those thing. It's just us. We just found new freedoms to act in ways we were otherwise told not to act.
It's also possible that Mr. T is to blame for all of this.
While that is true, there's also a likely correlation with addiction at work here. but in the interest of not derailing this thread further we'll go with Mr. T as a possible explanation for this.
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That lady in TSF shirt is gorgeous.
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That lady in TSF shirt is gorgeous.
That is Eric Gillette's wife and yes she is very pretty!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11RxkxW6EWc
Sherinian and Portnoy talk about Derek's firing from DT on Eddie Trunk. Some interesting stuff, including Portnoy claiming he felt the worst about it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11RxkxW6EWc
Sherinian and Portnoy talk about Derek's firing from DT on Eddie Trunk. Some interesting stuff, including Portnoy claiming he felt the worst about it.
From the other thread.
"You know Derek, I actually wanted you to stay in the band. It was the other guys who wanted you out."
Nice job Zook.
Seriously, that interview was disgusting.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11RxkxW6EWc
Sherinian and Portnoy talk about Derek's firing from DT on Eddie Trunk. Some interesting stuff, including Portnoy claiming he felt the worst about it.
From the man himself: https://youtu.be/59tLv13dWC4?t=34m55s
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I didn't realize that on the album cover, DS is the eagle and MP is the lion.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11RxkxW6EWc
Sherinian and Portnoy talk about Derek's firing from DT on Eddie Trunk. Some interesting stuff, including Portnoy claiming he felt the worst about it.
I don't know, I always unsderstood that MP thought that Jordan was musically better for the band, although he liked Derek a lot as a person and felt bad to fire him because of that. Two things that aren't contradictory IMO. It's obivious that MP was veeery uncomfortable with the question in this interview and kind of put "the blame" on the band. To me the more surprising was the fact that MP and Derek dind't talk about it before start a new band.
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Mike Portnoy is about to go on at sold out NYC shattered fortress show. The best of times is on the PA. :metal
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:metal
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11RxkxW6EWc
Sherinian and Portnoy talk about Derek's firing from DT on Eddie Trunk. Some interesting stuff, including Portnoy claiming he felt the worst about it.
:tdwn
The more I hear from these guys the less I like them. It's sad actually, because I was a huge fan of MP and always like DS as well. But just the way that they deal with stuff is so off-putting. The way MP talks about "the Canadian", DS saying "we were the only personality in the band"...they really have no class, and it's sad to see.
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I'm kind of curious to see how this develops though, because it looks like we basically now have two guys who have been harbouring massive grudges against Dream Theater and who are now feeding into and off each other's resentment. When SoA turns out not to be very successful (as I think will be the case), it'll be interesting to see if these subtle and not-so-subtle digs at the band escalate, and they become like some bitter old couple who spend half their lives whining to each other about the past.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11RxkxW6EWc
Sherinian and Portnoy talk about Derek's firing from DT on Eddie Trunk. Some interesting stuff, including Portnoy claiming he felt the worst about it.
From the man himself: https://youtu.be/59tLv13dWC4?t=34m55s
Or to take it a step further, we could refer to the book Lifting Shadows. I can look up specifics later but I think Mike said that he and JP decided they wanted Jordan and then went to the other guys but were met with some resistance, especially from John Myung.
So once again I think Mike is being disingenuous. I don't doubt that he felt horrible but to say he felt the worst out of all of them is a half truth at best.
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Interesting Trunk interview. But even in that 20th anniversary documentary, Portnoy didn't sound exactly enthusiastic about "letting Derek go".
The more I hear from these guys the less I like them. It's sad actually, because I was a huge fan of MP and always like DS as well. But just the way that they deal with stuff is so off-putting. The way MP talks about "the Canadian", DS saying "we were the only personality in the band"...they really have no class, and it's sad to see.
I don't think Portnoy was trying to insult LaBrie. Sherinian sounds like a bit of a douche though.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11RxkxW6EWc
Sherinian and Portnoy talk about Derek's firing from DT on Eddie Trunk. Some interesting stuff, including Portnoy claiming he felt the worst about it.
From the man himself: https://youtu.be/59tLv13dWC4?t=34m55s
Or to take it a step further, we could refer to the book Lifting Shadows. I can look up specifics later but I think Mike said that he and JP decided they wanted Jordan and then went to the other guys but were met with some resistance, especially from John Myung.
So once again I think Mike is being disingenuous. I don't doubt that he felt horrible but to say he felt the worst out of all of them is a half truth at best.
Time to send Mike and Derek a copy of the book :biggrin:
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Seeing some coments here I wondered what I would think. Well , it wasn't that bad. Yes Mike kind of dodges the ball and tries to rewrite history in his favor but I did not think of the Canadian comment as noteworthy at all.
Dereks comments though....
Mike says: We were the two Rock'n Roll personalities in the band.
To which Derek says: We were the only personalities in the band and there was only room for one.
Not only did he take a shot at DT but to me it seems he also took a shot at MP (the only personality left after DS was fired).
Will still listen to the album when it comes out but my view of Derek gets lower everytime I hear him speak.
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Seeing some coments here I wondered what I would think. Well , it wasn't that bad. Yes Mike kind of dodges the ball and tries to rewrite history in his favor but I did not think of the Canadian comment as noteworthy at all.
Dereks comments though....
Mike says: We were the two Rock'n Roll personalities in the band.
To which Derek says: We were the only personalities in the band and there was only room for one.
Not only did he take a shot at DT but to me it seems he also took a shot at MP (the only personality left after DS was fired).
Will still listen to the album when it comes out but my view of Derek gets lower everytime I hear him speak.
If being a "personality" means : spitting on his bandmate's amps, wearing panther shirts, having a cauliflower haircut, drinking and taking drugs...I'm glad the other 3 were not "personalities".
And frankly, MP should listen to The Mirror again, especially the "Hypocrites..." part.
B.Lee
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11RxkxW6EWc
Sherinian and Portnoy talk about Derek's firing from DT on Eddie Trunk. Some interesting stuff, including Portnoy claiming he felt the worst about it.
I don't know, I always unsderstood that MP thought that Jordan was musically better for the band, although he liked Derek a lot as a person and felt bad to fire him because of that. Two things that aren't contradictory IMO. It's obivious that MP was veeery uncomfortable with the question in this interview and kind of put "the blame" on the band. To me the more surprising was the fact that MP and Derek dind't talk about it before start a new band.
nah mate, LIES are just the misunderstood "Del Fuvio jokes" :facepalm:
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"Hey Mike! What are you doing today, man?"
"Rewriting history... and you?"
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"Hey Mike! What are you doing today, man?"
"Rewriting history... and you?"
:clap:
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"Hey Mike! What are you doing today, man?"
"Rewriting history... and you?"
(https://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg)
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When you're deep in a hole it's best to stop digging...
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Well, saw The Shattered Fortress last night. It was a really well done, and the Eric Gilette was a beast. The stuff they did from Scenes was out of this world, one of the best concert experiences I've had thus far. And I have to say, seeing a DT audience so damn energetic was nice. Previous DT shows I've been to, it feels like your standing around with a bunch of Terra Cotta warriors.
Of course, I have to play a "never enough" card, so here goes. Aside from a few minutes, I thought the 12 Step Suite was really overbearing, and by the end of This Dying Soul I'd completely lost my buzz from the intro. I didn't really get back into the show until the Encore. Also, while the band and Haken guys were really tight, Mike himself seemed quite sloppy.
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I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.
With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.
I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.
Just spit-balling here.
That makes sense because Chaos and Black Clouds was the direction that MP wanted to go while ADTOE was where JP and Jordan wanted to go. I personally prefer the ADTOE direction but I know many fans liked the direction they were going in.
Ya know, a lot of people say that but there is no real proof that Mike was responsible for that direction. In fact, in the SC documentary he said he intentionally held back from any sort of plan so they could see where the music went. I think John was far more responsible than people give him credit (or blame) for. For the record, SC is one of my two favorite albums along with ADTOE.
...
Obviously Mike is responsible for some of the heaviness especially the growl vocals but I think the fact that DT continues to play Dark Eternal Night shows that the rest of the guys were pretty happy with the album.
Exactly. John is and has always been the primary writer on DT's albums. As a result, the albums have always taken on whatever musical vibe he was writing to. Not that Mike didn't have a lot of input as well or that Jordan didn't compose. But John has always been the primary composer.
JP is the primary composer but I always got the impression (and this is not based on any actual inside knowledge, just my impression) that Mike kind of steered the band in the direction he felt they should go. What I'm saying is that (imo) he may not have written all the music but he decided what type of songs they should write. There is a marked difference to me from the last few MP albums which featured some fairly contemporary metal songs with crazy prog instrumental parts crowbarred in, compared to the MM albums which are much more melodic and the crazy stuff feels a little more like part of the song. Yes there is still plenty of metal on ADTOE and DT12 but it feels much more like a nerdy prog band again rather than the overtly metal band they had become in the later MP years. Definitely can see a lot of the metal kids who got on board in that era are no longer at the shows.
I'm not necessarily saying metal is bad and prog is good as I've always enjoyed both sides of DT. Systematic Chaos for example had some great metal stuff and ITPOE would be up there as an all time classic DT song if it wasn't for that "Dark Master" section.
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I found a subreddit that's actually empty
https://www.reddit.com/r/SonsOfApollo/
wait a min-
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"Hey Mike! What are you doing today, man?"
"Rewriting history... and you?"
:rollin
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Seeing some coments here I wondered what I would think. Well , it wasn't that bad. Yes Mike kind of dodges the ball and tries to rewrite history in his favor but I did not think of the Canadian comment as noteworthy at all.
Dereks comments though....
Mike says: We were the two Rock'n Roll personalities in the band.
To which Derek says: We were the only personalities in the band and there was only room for one.
Not only did he take a shot at DT but to me it seems he also took a shot at MP (the only personality left after DS was fired).
Will still listen to the album when it comes out but my view of Derek gets lower everytime I hear him speak.
I agree about MP, He was just obviously and awkwardly trying to save face. he didn't deny it was part his decision too. The Canadian comment was more about where he lives. As far as Derek's comments it is his personality. He just think he's being funny but doesn't get or care that it comes across as being insulting or sounding like a jerk. It's just immature but not really harmful. It does diminish my interest in the band. Part of liking a band is liking the members. I think Rush had spoiled me. That being said I am curious to what they come up with musically.
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Well, saw The Shattered Fortress last night. It was a really well done, and the Eric Gilette was a beast. The stuff they did from Scenes was out of this world, one of the best concert experiences I've had thus far. And I have to say, seeing a DT audience so damn energetic was nice. Previous DT shows I've been to, it feels like your standing around with a bunch of Terra Cotta warriors.
Of course, I have to play a "never enough" card, so here goes. Aside from a few minutes, I thought the 12 Step Suite was really overbearing, and by the end of This Dying Soul I'd completely lost my buzz from the intro. I didn't really get back into the show until the Encore. Also, while the band and Haken guys were really tight, Mike himself seemed quite sloppy.
I was there too, and I'm not sure I agree about the "sloppy" (meaning, I literally am not sure). I agree on the Suite, though, but that for me was because it was hard to hear Ross, so the melodies that keep that piece from being too much weren't there.
During the short break where Mike talked to the crowd, he walked through his relationship with New York and asked people to cheer if they were at certain shows in the band's history. At one point, he asked about a show (I forget which one) and looked up to the family section in the balcony and said "I know Marlene and Rena were there!" I didn't see anyone from the balcony (I was right below it, so they were above me). Anyone know if that was Rena Petrucci there or a massive coincidence?
-
Well, saw The Shattered Fortress last night. It was a really well done, and the Eric Gilette was a beast. The stuff they did from Scenes was out of this world, one of the best concert experiences I've had thus far. And I have to say, seeing a DT audience so damn energetic was nice. Previous DT shows I've been to, it feels like your standing around with a bunch of Terra Cotta warriors.
Of course, I have to play a "never enough" card, so here goes. Aside from a few minutes, I thought the 12 Step Suite was really overbearing, and by the end of This Dying Soul I'd completely lost my buzz from the intro. I didn't really get back into the show until the Encore. Also, while the band and Haken guys were really tight, Mike himself seemed quite sloppy.
I was there too, and I'm not sure I agree about the "sloppy" (meaning, I literally am not sure). I agree on the Suite, though, but that for me was because it was hard to hear Ross, so the melodies that keep that piece from being too much weren't there.
During the short break where Mike talked to the crowd, he walked through his relationship with New York and asked people to cheer if they were at certain shows in the band's history. At one point, he asked about a show (I forget which one) and looked up to the family section in the balcony and said "I know Marlene and Rena were there!" I didn't see anyone from the balcony (I was right below it, so they were above me). Anyone know if that was Rena Petrucci there or a massive coincidence?
Certainly assumed she was there, though like you couldn't verify. It did strike me that, for all of the nonsense going on, he was gracious towards his former bandmates in the talking spot.
Likewise, couldn't say if the drums were sloppy, not my area of expertise. But they were (unsurprisingly) way up in the mix.
Normally, if there are songs I'm not wild about on an album, seeing them live can make me like them better. But Repentance...still completely indifferent to it after seeing it.
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Maybe his wife was in attendance, and the fact that Rena Petrucci was at that other concert, was enough to warrant a mention even if she wasn't actually present. But it would be cool if they had both attended together last night.
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I cannot answer as to whether she was there. But I can say without hesitation that in my communications with Rena, both in writing and in person, she has never shown even a hint of negativity about Mike, Marlene, or anyone in that camp. So it would not surprise me in the least if she was there and showing support.
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I remember someone posted a picture, either here or on facebook, of a couple fans who ran into Marlene and Rena at a DT show from The Astonishing tour (yes, you read that correctly), so I don't think Rena would have any problem attending one of Mike's shows. Wish I could find that pic/post again.
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IMO, whatever issues exist with Mike and DT, it has less to do these days with MP/JP than it does with MP/JLB, and the fact that DT wants to be loyal to MM. JP and MP were friends for too long to not have time heal some of these wounds. They know they work well together. But JP isn't going to upheave DT at this point, and I don't blame him.
If MM decided to leave Dream Theater and return to teaching, however, MP would be back with them, IMO.
Anyway, very much looking forward to the Sons of Apollo record. I've been avoiding most of the preview stuff. Can't wait to just put it on and crank it up. :metal
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Well, saw The Shattered Fortress last night. It was a really well done, and the Eric Gilette was a beast. The stuff they did from Scenes was out of this world, one of the best concert experiences I've had thus far. And I have to say, seeing a DT audience so damn energetic was nice. Previous DT shows I've been to, it feels like your standing around with a bunch of Terra Cotta warriors.
Of course, I have to play a "never enough" card, so here goes. Aside from a few minutes, I thought the 12 Step Suite was really overbearing, and by the end of This Dying Soul I'd completely lost my buzz from the intro. I didn't really get back into the show until the Encore. Also, while the band and Haken guys were really tight, Mike himself seemed quite sloppy.
I was there too, and I'm not sure I agree about the "sloppy" (meaning, I literally am not sure). I agree on the Suite, though, but that for me was because it was hard to hear Ross, so the melodies that keep that piece from being too much weren't there.
During the short break where Mike talked to the crowd, he walked through his relationship with New York and asked people to cheer if they were at certain shows in the band's history. At one point, he asked about a show (I forget which one) and looked up to the family section in the balcony and said "I know Marlene and Rena were there!" I didn't see anyone from the balcony (I was right below it, so they were above me). Anyone know if that was Rena Petrucci there or a massive coincidence?
Certainly assumed she was there, though like you couldn't verify. It did strike me that, for all of the nonsense going on, he was gracious towards his former bandmates in the talking spot.
Likewise, couldn't say if the drums were sloppy, not my area of expertise. But they were (unsurprisingly) way up in the mix.
Normally, if there are songs I'm not wild about on an album, seeing them live can make me like them better. But Repentance...still completely indifferent to it after seeing it.
I was there as well, and was basically in the middle of the floor section and I looked up when Mike said that about Rena and couldn't really tell, but based on what he said I can't imagine she wasn't there. I thought the show was great and I love all of the songs in the 12 step suite so that part of the show was fine for me. Eric was phenomenal (as always) and I was really impressed with the guys from Haken and have to check them out more. As far as Mike, I wouldn't necessarily say he was sloppy, but he certainly wasn't as tight as he used to be playing those songs, but that's understandable being that he doesn't play them on a regular basis anymore. All in all it was a great show!
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Well, saw The Shattered Fortress last night. It was a really well done, and the Eric Gilette was a beast. The stuff they did from Scenes was out of this world, one of the best concert experiences I've had thus far. And I have to say, seeing a DT audience so damn energetic was nice. Previous DT shows I've been to, it feels like your standing around with a bunch of Terra Cotta warriors.
Of course, I have to play a "never enough" card, so here goes. Aside from a few minutes, I thought the 12 Step Suite was really overbearing, and by the end of This Dying Soul I'd completely lost my buzz from the intro. I didn't really get back into the show until the Encore. Also, while the band and Haken guys were really tight, Mike himself seemed quite sloppy.
I was there too, and I'm not sure I agree about the "sloppy" (meaning, I literally am not sure). I agree on the Suite, though, but that for me was because it was hard to hear Ross, so the melodies that keep that piece from being too much weren't there.
During the short break where Mike talked to the crowd, he walked through his relationship with New York and asked people to cheer if they were at certain shows in the band's history. At one point, he asked about a show (I forget which one) and looked up to the family section in the balcony and said "I know Marlene and Rena were there!" I didn't see anyone from the balcony (I was right below it, so they were above me). Anyone know if that was Rena Petrucci there or a massive coincidence?
Certainly assumed she was there, though like you couldn't verify. It did strike me that, for all of the nonsense going on, he was gracious towards his former bandmates in the talking spot.
Likewise, couldn't say if the drums were sloppy, not my area of expertise. But they were (unsurprisingly) way up in the mix.
Normally, if there are songs I'm not wild about on an album, seeing them live can make me like them better. But Repentance...still completely indifferent to it after seeing it.
Couldn't confirm Rena was there, but it definitely seemed like Mike's entire extended family was on the VIP VIP balcony (as in there was another VIP section on the balcony).
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No question on which Canadian he hates now...
"The 3 of us and the Canadian." Fuck off.
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No question on which Canadian he hates now...
"The 3 of us and the Canadian." Fuck off.
Well, he was explaining how they didn't want him to take a flight just to be fired, and so he was explaining where they was: Derek in California, and the four of them in New York... and then he remembered that James wasn't there because it wasn't Canada, so let's just assume it was a geographical thing.
Even though a better correction would have been "Well, the three of us, James was in Canada".
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No question on which Canadian he hates now...
"The 3 of us and the Canadian." Fuck off.
Well, he was explaining how they didn't want him to take a flight just to be fired, and so he was explaining where they was: Derek in California, and the four of them in New York... and then he remembered that James wasn't there because it wasn't Canada, so let's just assume it was a geographical thing.
Even though a better correction would have been "Well, the three of us, James was in Canada".
He was asked on Facebook if he hates Canadians. He replied, "just one." You have the same singer for over 20 years, and refer to him as the Canadian? His personal beef aside, and I'm not Canadian, but what does HE have against Canadians?
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No question on which Canadian he hates now...
"The 3 of us and the Canadian." Fuck off.
Well, he was explaining how they didn't want him to take a flight just to be fired, and so he was explaining where they was: Derek in California, and the four of them in New York... and then he remembered that James wasn't there because it wasn't Canada, so let's just assume it was a geographical thing.
Even though a better correction would have been "Well, the three of us, James was in Canada".
He was asked on Facebook if he hates Canadians. He replied, "just one." You have the same singer for over 20 years, and refer to him as the Canadian? His personal beef aside, and I'm not Canadian, but what does HE have against Canadians?
I think it was more of a slap in the face to James than to have anything to do with him being Canadian. To me it was more or less him not wanting to mention James by name. There is obviously very bad blood between those two. And Derek being so bitter still about getting fired from DT just reinforces that he's just being a dick rather than trying to be funny with all of the comments he's making.
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No question on which Canadian he hates now...
"The 3 of us and the Canadian." Fuck off.
Well, he was explaining how they didn't want him to take a flight just to be fired, and so he was explaining where they was: Derek in California, and the four of them in New York... and then he remembered that James wasn't there because it wasn't Canada, so let's just assume it was a geographical thing.
Even though a better correction would have been "Well, the three of us, James was in Canada".
He was asked on Facebook if he hates Canadians. He replied, "just one." You have the same singer for over 20 years, and refer to him as the Canadian? His personal beef aside, and I'm not Canadian, but what does HE have against Canadians?
I think it was more of a slap in the face to James than to have anything to do with him being Canadian. To me it was more or less him not wanting to mention James by name. There is obviously very bad blood between those two. And Derek being so bitter still about getting fired from DT just reinforces that he's just being a dick rather than trying to be funny with all of the comments he's making.
Yeah, he clearly hates James, but it just seems like lately he's been using that to also express his hatred for Canadians. Maybe a Canadian cut him off once. But seriously, not that it's my business, but what the hell happened to cause the beef?
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Probably met Jingle.boy at a meat n greet.
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I know there were comments when Mike left made by both... I don't remember the exact details, but it was something along the lines of James saying it was nice to be able to be the frontman and not having a drummer behind him trying to steal the spotlight, and then Mike saying how it was nice to be in bands that had a real frontman so he didn't have to be one. I'm sure there was more than that, but I believe that might have something to do with it.
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meat n greet.
Is that what they call the JP-specific one these days?
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meat n greet.
Is that what they call the JP-specific one these days?
When did he give up chocolate cake?
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He was asked on Facebook if he hates Canadians. He replied, "just one."
Holy shit, really?
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He was asked on Facebook if he hates Canadians. He replied, "just one."
Holy shit, really?
That was a while ago, though wasn't it? I don't think this has anything to do with Canada specifically.
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He was asked on Facebook if he hates Canadians. He replied, "just one."
Holy shit, really?
I mean how can you even like Justin Bieber? So.. that's ok by me.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_TfBbR6L0M
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He was asked on Facebook if he hates Canadians. He replied, "just one."
Holy shit, really?
That was a while ago, though wasn't it? I don't think this has anything to do with Canada specifically.
No, it hasn't, just with JLB.
OK, I'm done. I'll never post in a thread related to MP again. The man just doesn't know when to stop and never will. And this doesn't have to do with what he said about JLB alone, it's that I'm fed up with all the shit he's triggering off with his comments and whatnot. From now on, I will just keep my thoughts to myself.
B.Lee
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I find it incredibly sad, that if it is true, that MP and JLB can't sit down, man to man, and iron out whatever it is. Shame on both of them, if that is indeed the case.
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Speculating on who hates who is fruitless when you don't have the whole picture. Just sayin'.
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I agree with that. And I really don't care who hates who - I don't like the idea of them hating each other, but at the end of the day, there's nothing I can do about it. I just think MP needs to let it go publicly - not just the stuff with JLB, but everything else that everyone else has mentioned. It's been 7 years, we don't need to hear MP taking shots at anything to do with DT, regardless of who hates who or who has done what behind the scenes.
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Honestly, after reading a transcript from the Eddie Trunk interview, I don't think the Canadian comments were bad. He was explaining why they fired Derek over conference call and he was saying how Derek lived in California while the rest of the guys lived in New York, but then he corrected himself and said "well three of us and the Canadian". MP has had a lot of moments with him taking shots at DT, but I don't think that this is one of them.
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Speculating on who hates who is fruitless when you don't have the whole picture. Just sayin'.
You must be new here.
:neverusethis:
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Honestly, after reading a transcript from the Eddie Trunk interview, I don't think the Canadian comments were bad. He was explaining why they fired Derek over conference call and he was saying how Derek lived in California while the rest of the guys lived in New York, but then he corrected himself and said "well three of us and the Canadian". MP has had a lot of moments with him taking shots at DT, but I don't think that this is one of them.
Agreed
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I've heard MP more than once refer to JLB as "the Canadian," and I always took it as a friendly jab. Nothing mean-spirited at all.
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I'm starting to understand, I think, what many peoples expectations were/are for the album. I feel like many were in the earlier DT days type sound.
With MP running the show, I expected nothing less than something in the vein of the last few DT albums he played on which also seem to have a lot of dislike amongst the fan base, but maybe with an even harder edge. Especially with Derek involved.
I guess I'm more surprised than anything else by the reaction. My brain was already thinking Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds type of vibe.
Just spit-balling here.
That makes sense because Chaos and Black Clouds was the direction that MP wanted to go while ADTOE was where JP and Jordan wanted to go. I personally prefer the ADTOE direction but I know many fans liked the direction they were going in.
Ya know, a lot of people say that but there is no real proof that Mike was responsible for that direction. In fact, in the SC documentary he said he intentionally held back from any sort of plan so they could see where the music went. I think John was far more responsible than people give him credit (or blame) for. For the record, SC is one of my two favorite albums along with ADTOE.
...
Obviously Mike is responsible for some of the heaviness especially the growl vocals but I think the fact that DT continues to play Dark Eternal Night shows that the rest of the guys were pretty happy with the album.
Exactly. John is and has always been the primary writer on DT's albums. As a result, the albums have always taken on whatever musical vibe he was writing to. Not that Mike didn't have a lot of input as well or that Jordan didn't compose. But John has always been the primary composer.
JP is the primary composer but I always got the impression (and this is not based on any actual inside knowledge, just my impression) that Mike kind of steered the band in the direction he felt they should go. What I'm saying is that (imo) he may not have written all the music but he decided what type of songs they should write.
I don't think that's the case either. I don't doubt that he occasionally would say "Let's go for a more Coldplayish song here..." and the band wrote I Walk Beside You or whatever. JP and JR have always been the main songwriters and I'd also like to point out again in the Systematic Chaos "making of" feature, Mike specifically said he did not steer them in any direction.
That said, Mike had more to do with things like albums titles and covers. I don't know for sure but I think he may have also come up with the whole Octavarium "5/8" thing that goes throughout. Probably was his idea to begin each new album with the sound of the last album (at least 99 - 05). JP is a quieter guy but when it comes to the music he has some strong views and I think he has a pretty firm idea of where he wants to go with it.
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Honestly, after reading a transcript from the Eddie Trunk interview, I don't think the Canadian comments were bad. He was explaining why they fired Derek over conference call and he was saying how Derek lived in California while the rest of the guys lived in New York, but then he corrected himself and said "well three of us and the Canadian". MP has had a lot of moments with him taking shots at DT, but I don't think that this is one of them.
I thought the same thing but that was before I read the last few posts about Portnoy and LaBrie disliking each other. I've never heard that before. That's sad to hear.
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Seeing some coments here I wondered what I would think. Well , it wasn't that bad. Yes Mike kind of dodges the ball and tries to rewrite history in his favor but I did not think of the Canadian comment as noteworthy at all.
Dereks comments though....
Mike says: We were the two Rock'n Roll personalities in the band.
To which Derek says: We were the only personalities in the band and there was only room for one.
Not only did he take a shot at DT but to me it seems he also took a shot at MP (the only personality left after DS was fired).
Will still listen to the album when it comes out but my view of Derek gets lower everytime I hear him speak.
If being a "personality" means : spitting on his bandmate's amps, wearing panther shirts, having a cauliflower haircut, drinking and taking drugs...I'm glad the other 3 were not "personalities".
Really??? :facepalm: That is just being ignorant to what the man brings on stage. :\
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Mike: “No, I wasn’t. I wanna go on a record here that I felt bad more than anyone about it, ’cause obviously Derek and I were brothers and we were kind of the rockin’ personalities in the band.”
Derek: “We were the only personalities in the band, what are you talking about? [Chuckles] There was only room for one personality!”
It seems Derek was actually joking with the comment to me
Extracted from: https://metalwani.com/2017/09/derek-sherinian-why-i-was-fired-from-dream-theater.html
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He was asked on Facebook if he hates Canadians. He replied, "just one."
Holy shit, really?
That was a while ago, though wasn't it? I don't think this has anything to do with Canada specifically.
I don't think so. Forget I said it. But he definitely hates James. But you know what? Just recently James was interviewed and was praising Mike's work on Images and Words, AND he referred to him by name, so whether or not James shares disdain for MP, he at least has enough class not to take shots or refer to him as "our ex drummer" or some shit.
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I don't think so. Forget I said it.
So why say it? God knows I have enough to bitch about when it comes to MP's statements and behaviour... No need to invent more.
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He was asked on Facebook if he hates Canadians. He replied, "just one."
Holy shit, really?
That was a while ago, though wasn't it? I don't think this has anything to do with Canada specifically.
I don't think so. Forget I said it. But he definitely hates James. But you know what? Just recently James was interviewed and was praising Mike's work on Images and Words, AND he referred to him by name, so whether or not James shares disdain for MP, he at least has enough class not to take shots or refer to him as "our ex drummer" or some shit.
This.
Also, MP had a few other interviews calling Mangini "their current drummer". I mean, while that's technically true, they both know each other and were supposedly friends. I might be reading too much between the lines, but I think he jsut chooses to call them "their drummer" or "the canadian" because he's too hurt to call them by their real names.
But life's to short to hold grudges, isn't it?...
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Kindness...it's not that hard.
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I don't think so. Forget I said it.
So why say it? God knows I have enough to bitch about when it comes to MP's statements and behaviour... No need to invent more.
It's what I was feeling at that moment. I can delete that portion of my post, but it's already been quoted.
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I don't think so. Forget I said it.
So why say it? God knows I have enough to bitch about when it comes to MP's statements and behaviour... No need to invent more.
He didn't invent that. MP did post that, only it was Facebook - not Twitter.
See his reply to the comment here:
https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/posts/1788293884521579?comment_id=1788330767851224&reply_comment_id=1788342034516764&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D
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I don't think so. Forget I said it.
So why say it? God knows I have enough to bitch about when it comes to MP's statements and behaviour... No need to invent more.
He didn't invent that. MP did post that, only it was Facebook - not Twitter.
See his reply to the comment here:
https://www.facebook.com/mikeportnoyofficial/posts/1788293884521579?comment_id=1788330767851224&reply_comment_id=1788342034516764&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D
Yeah, I fudged the quote, but I did say Facebook. But he's referring to me saying MP has something against Canadians in general. That was a silly thing for me to say, although it wasn't an attempt to stir up shit.
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Now we know the Petruccis were there:
(https://image.ibb.co/h8yLOk/22045735_957774894383483_1293571835345621284_n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ntTy9Q)
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Really cool photo!I just hope that Mike and Jonh can be good friends :tup
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For all the occasional internet shortcomings he might have, Mike made on FB a very tasteful post about the show and his past in DT, saying only nice things about the band and how grateful he was to relive those memories.
I think too that an eventual reunion, although very unlikely (and Mike himself acknowledges that), would pass through Mangini leaving of his own accord and desire, and JP sitting down with the other DT guys asking "So, guys, what do we do? do you think you can sit down in a room with him and see if it would work again?"
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Guys who here has the capability of doing an interview?
There’s a chance to interview Derek Sherinian on Thursday 28th on the last spot.
If you are a reviewer or a journalist or have a blog and have done something like this in the past send me the info requested in the image below and once I get the confirmation from the PR I will let you know.
I would do it on my own but can’t as tonite I am departing with my family to Colombia and I don’t know if I will be completely settled for the 28th.
(https://image.ibb.co/bQnHKQ/7145_EEBB_60_FF_4_AC1_893_F_5805_F74_CCE1_F.png) (https://ibb.co/mBCTR5)
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Surprisingly, I really like the two SoA songs on YT. I didn't have any expectations, and both songs had some surprises that I dug.
I really like the fretless guitar bit in Coming Home. The bass was fat and groovy too. It's not a fantastic tune but I think it's a good "single". Signs of the Time makes me really interested in hearing the rest of the album. Very cool song and hearing Derek's lead patches again is like welcoming home and old friend. The guitar work great and impressive...if just a bit noodly toward the end of the solo.
I like JSS voice too.
Oh and, of course, Portnoy's drums are familiar, comfortable and professional. I assume we'll need to wait for the album to hear something with more of MP's flair.
Sorry about going off topic.
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Surprisingly, I really like the two SoA songs on YT. I didn't have any expectations, and both songs had some surprises that I dug.
I really like the fretless guitar bit in Coming Home. The bass was fat and groovy too. It's not a fantastic tune but I think it's a good "single". Signs of the Time makes me really interested in hearing the rest of the album. Very cool song and hearing Derek's lead patches again is like welcoming home and old friend. The guitar work great and impressive...if just a bit noodly toward the end of the solo.
I like JSS voice too.
Oh and, of course, Portnoy's drums are familiar, comfortable and professional. I assume we'll need to wait for the album to hear something with more of MP's flair.
Exactly this, I've quite enjoyed the two tunes released so far. :tup
Sorry about going off topic.
:lol
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Guys who here has the capability of doing an interview?
There’s a chance to interview Derek Sherinian on Thursday 28th on the last spot.
If you are a reviewer or a journalist or have a blog and have done something like this in the past send me the info requested in the image below and once I get the confirmation from the PR I will let you know.
I would do it on my own but can’t as tonite I am departing with my family to Colombia and I don’t know if I will be completely settled for the 28th.
(https://image.ibb.co/bQnHKQ/7145_EEBB_60_FF_4_AC1_893_F_5805_F74_CCE1_F.png) (https://ibb.co/mBCTR5)
Anyone?
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Speculating on who hates who is fruitless when you don't have the whole picture. Just sayin'.
Trust me, THAT argument isn't going to go anywhere. :) ;0 :)
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Surprisingly, I really like the two SoA songs on YT. I didn't have any expectations, and both songs had some surprises that I dug.
I really like the fretless guitar bit in Coming Home. The bass was fat and groovy too. It's not a fantastic tune but I think it's a good "single". Signs of the Time makes me really interested in hearing the rest of the album. Very cool song and hearing Derek's lead patches again is like welcoming home and old friend. The guitar work great and impressive...if just a bit noodly toward the end of the solo.
I like JSS voice too.
Oh and, of course, Portnoy's drums are familiar, comfortable and professional. I assume we'll need to wait for the album to hear something with more of MP's flair.
Sorry about going off topic.
I suppose we have fallen into judging an album by the 'singles'. DTs choice of single was never a great gauge of the rest of the album. Rite of Passage, On The Backs of Angels, Constant Motion. No great prog classics there.
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Guys who here has the capability of doing an interview?
There’s a chance to interview Derek Sherinian on Thursday 28th on the last spot.
If you are a reviewer or a journalist or have a blog and have done something like this in the past send me the info requested in the image below and once I get the confirmation from the PR I will let you know.
I would do it on my own but can’t as tonite I am departing with my family to Colombia and I don’t know if I will be completely settled for the 28th.
(https://image.ibb.co/bQnHKQ/7145_EEBB_60_FF_4_AC1_893_F_5805_F74_CCE1_F.png) (https://ibb.co/mBCTR5)
Anyone?
I could do it. I'm a reviewer of Whiplash website
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I just PM you Rodrigo
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Sorry about going off topic.
:lol
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Trying to love the album, not for what it is, but for how it was sold to us, as a prog metal album by the Kings of Prog and the ones reclaiming the throne but, well... I don’t know...
(https://image.ibb.co/gYmYR5/81_E32_F75_FB5_E_4_DF9_9447_7_D4_B579_DE9_CA.png) (https://ibb.co/kPFSm5)
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Trying to love the album, not for what it is, but for how it was sold to us, as a prog metal album by the Kings of Prog and the ones reclaiming the throne but, well... I don’t know...
(https://image.ibb.co/gYmYR5/81_E32_F75_FB5_E_4_DF9_9447_7_D4_B579_DE9_CA.png) (https://ibb.co/kPFSm5)
Would really appreciate it if you could write a small review (or just some thoughts) after your listen.
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I posted the same picture of the album being played here at the MP forum and they removed it? WTF?
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I posted the same picture of the album being played here at the MP forum and they removed it? WTF?
Leads to too many questions. Are you supposed to have tracks nobody else has heard yet? Are you a reviewer? Did you break any review embargos? etc etc etc etc.
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Yeah, I must confess I am a bit bewildered too. The album is supposed to come out in October. I mean, we all know these things leak, but parading it around on a forum is maybe a bit questionable.
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(https://image.ibb.co/j4SkpQ/soa.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iZauik)
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Yeah, I must confess I am a bit bewildered too. The album is supposed to come out in October. I mean, we all know these things leak, but parading it around on a forum is maybe a bit questionable.
Another user posted a similar photo, and his wasn't removed. That's why I posted it there.
(https://image.ibb.co/daMOb5/soa1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fmXkpQ)
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I am done with MP and his forum and his balls lickers
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Maybe that Joel guy made it more clear that it was a promo copy by talking about his upcoming review?
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I know that Portnoy either knows Joel, or at the very least knows of Joel, so it's possible he knew he had a legit copy.
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Maybe that Joel guy made it more clear that it was a promo copy by talking about his upcoming review?
frankly, I don't care anymore, my comment asking why it was removed was removed too.
I got the album from the label too, for review purposes, also because me and some friends have a radio show and they will airplay it when it is released, (currently SoT and CH are in rotation). I am helping the label to accomodate interviews with Derek and Mike so, I got it officially too.
But as I said, I just don't care anymore.
I am done with MP and the guys behind his forum
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I have a LEGIT copy too
(https://image.ibb.co/jmpFpQ/LEGIT1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fncPik)
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Joel is in the know I believe. I found him from watching concerts on youtube (specifally ProgPower) and found out he is actually part of the team and is an official photographer/videographer. I dont know him or anything, just something I've gathered since I've seen his name a lot. I'm going to guess MP (or MP's extended crew) know who he is and that he has a legit copy whereas they may not know that about you (even if the copy is legit, which I believe you). I'm just guessing.
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Joel is in the know I believe. I found him from watching concerts on youtube (specifally ProgPower) and found out he is actually part of the team and is an official photographer/videographer. I dont know him or anything, just something I've gathered since I've seen his name a lot. I'm going to guess MP (or MP's extended crew) know who he is and that he has a legit copy whereas they may not know that about you (even if the copy is legit, which I believe you). I'm just guessing.
OK, let's assume you are right, they don't know me and they don't know I got a legit copy. The album hasn't leaked, the tracking info and the artwork has been officially released, what harm does a picture like the one I posted does?
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Joel is in the know I believe. I found him from watching concerts on youtube (specifally ProgPower) and found out he is actually part of the team and is an official photographer/videographer. I dont know him or anything, just something I've gathered since I've seen his name a lot. I'm going to guess MP (or MP's extended crew) know who he is and that he has a legit copy whereas they may not know that about you (even if the copy is legit, which I believe you). I'm just guessing.
OK, let's assume you are right, they don't know me and they don't know I got a legit copy. The album hasn't leaked, the tracking info and the artwork has been officially released, what harm does a picture like the one I posted does?
My first thought was that maybe because you had the track length in your pic, I didn't know that info had already been released.
Why was it removed? Beats me.
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Joel is in the know I believe. I found him from watching concerts on youtube (specifally ProgPower) and found out he is actually part of the team and is an official photographer/videographer. I dont know him or anything, just something I've gathered since I've seen his name a lot. I'm going to guess MP (or MP's extended crew) know who he is and that he has a legit copy whereas they may not know that about you (even if the copy is legit, which I believe you). I'm just guessing.
OK, let's assume you are right, they don't know me and they don't know I got a legit copy. The album hasn't leaked, the tracking info and the artwork has been officially released, what harm does a picture like the one I posted does?
Some musicians don't like when any unapproved info is released prior to the official release date, and they can moderate how they see fit. If they want to prohibit discussion of the unreleased tracks, that is their choice. So by deleting your picture, they are avoiding the inevitable "how did you get this? Is it pirated? Give us some info, man discussions.'
In addition, I'd guess that many artists also frown upon people bragging about having something prior to the release date via a promo copy. Write your review, do your promo work and don't brag about it on their official forum (or even unofficial forums). Show the artist a little courtesy, maybe?
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Joel is in the know I believe. I found him from watching concerts on youtube (specifally ProgPower) and found out he is actually part of the team and is an official photographer/videographer. I dont know him or anything, just something I've gathered since I've seen his name a lot. I'm going to guess MP (or MP's extended crew) know who he is and that he has a legit copy whereas they may not know that about you (even if the copy is legit, which I believe you). I'm just guessing.
OK, let's assume you are right, they don't know me and they don't know I got a legit copy. The album hasn't leaked, the tracking info and the artwork has been officially released, what harm does a picture like the one I posted does?
My first thought was that maybe because you had the track length in your pic, I didn't know that info had already been released.
Why was it removed? Beats me.
Track lenght is already disclosed:
Here: https://www.insideoutshop.de/Item/Sons_Of_Apollo_-_Psychotic_Symphony_-Ltd-_2CD_Mediabook-/16367
Or here: https://itunes.apple.com/ve/album/psychotic-symphony/id1267878801?app=itunes&ign-mpt=uo%3D4
Or here: https://play.google.com/store/music/album/Sons_Of_Apollo_Psychotic_Symphony?id=Bufza2xjkqkdwljgyacw3mb67tq
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I for one welcome our new #ProgGod overlords
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Why do we talk so much about what gets censored at other forums/social media groups here???
DTF is unaffiliated with that. Seems impossible to actually keep tabs on any news or discussion when this thing goes on for pages and pages regarding the silliest issues.
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Why do we talk so much about what gets censored at other forums/social media groups here???
DTF is unaffiliated with that. Seems impossible to actually keep tabs on any news or discussion when this thing goes on for pages and pages regarding the silliest issues.
That's what we do here most of the time in fact
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Ministro you went from one of MP's biggest supporters and promoters to one of his seeming enemies in about 2 weeks flat. Not
sure how that happened but I feel bad for you. You traveled a long ways to see many shows and were a true super-fan.
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Question for the mods -- any chance we can get a new thread for Sons of Apollo that is intended to discuss the album news/reviews and music, as opposed to MP vs. DT, DS' tweets, and all the drama? I am looking forward to the record, but I swear, wading through all the bullshit in this thread is a chore and honestly, its not all that productive. Just a request. If not, no worries. Thanks for what all the mods do to keep things civil around here. :)
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I for one welcome our new #ProgGod overlords
lol
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Question for the mods -- any chance we can get a new thread for Sons of Apollo that is intended to discuss the album news/reviews and music, as opposed to MP vs. DT, DS' tweets, and all the drama? I am looking forward to the record, but I swear, wading through all the bullshit in this thread is a chore and honestly, its not all that productive. Just a request. If not, no worries. Thanks for what all the mods do to keep things civil around here. :)
I kinda agree along these lines. I don't mind people discussing the MP forums/facebook/twitter fiascos, because let's face it, it is directly relevant and impactful to a lot of the people here, such as Minstro and others who have come from MP.com. But as someone who is still slightly interested in this band, it's funny to see several new pages every day and yet exactly no actual news.
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Ministro you went from one of MP's biggest supporters and promoters to one of his seeming enemies in about 2 weeks flat. Not
sure how that happened but I feel bad for you. You traveled a long ways to see many shows and were a true super-fan.
I'll PM you later, I don't want to continue what others called drama around this thread.
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Ministro you went from one of MP's biggest supporters and promoters to one of his seeming enemies in about 2 weeks flat. Not
sure how that happened but I feel bad for you. You traveled a long ways to see many shows and were a true super-fan.
I'll PM you later, I don't want to continue what others called drama around this thread.
No please do. I am curious too. :)
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Question for the mods -- any chance we can get a new thread for Sons of Apollo that is intended to discuss the album news/reviews and music, as opposed to MP vs. DT, DS' tweets, and all the drama? I am looking forward to the record, but I swear, wading through all the bullshit in this thread is a chore and honestly, its not all that productive. Just a request. If not, no worries. Thanks for what all the mods do to keep things civil around here. :)
I kinda agree along these lines. I don't mind people discussing the MP forums/facebook/twitter fiascos, because let's face it, it is directly relevant and impactful to a lot of the people here, such as Minstro and others who have come from MP.com. But as someone who is still slightly interested in this band, it's funny to see several new pages every day and yet exactly no actual news.
That's not really the posters' fault though, is it? There isn't any new music at this point, and so it isn't as if these posts are taking the spot of what would otherwise be deep music analysis. Plus, I genuinely feel bad for MR as well, and would be interested to hear more about why the abrupt about-face.
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Question for the mods -- any chance we can get a new thread for Sons of Apollo that is intended to discuss the album news/reviews and music, as opposed to MP vs. DT, DS' tweets, and all the drama? I am looking forward to the record, but I swear, wading through all the bullshit in this thread is a chore and honestly, its not all that productive. Just a request. If not, no worries. Thanks for what all the mods do to keep things civil around here. :)
I kinda agree along these lines. I don't mind people discussing the MP forums/facebook/twitter fiascos, because let's face it, it is directly relevant and impactful to a lot of the people here, such as Minstro and others who have come from MP.com. But as someone who is still slightly interested in this band, it's funny to see several new pages every day and yet exactly no actual news.
That's not really the posters' fault though, is it? There isn't any new music at this point, and so it isn't as if these posts are taking the spot of what would otherwise be deep music analysis. Plus, I genuinely feel bad for MR as well, and would be interested to hear more about why the abrupt about-face.
+1
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Ministro you went from one of MP's biggest supporters and promoters to one of his seeming enemies in about 2 weeks flat. Not
sure how that happened but I feel bad for you. You traveled a long ways to see many shows and were a true super-fan.
I'll PM you later, I don't want to continue what others called drama around this thread.
MR - please check your PMs. Thanks. :)
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I am done with MP and his forum and his balls lickers
Wait, I thought the forum wasn't a thing anymore?? Is it back up?
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Maybe that Joel guy made it more clear that it was a promo copy by talking about his upcoming review?
frankly, I don't care anymore, my comment asking why it was removed was removed too.
Not to play armchair moderator here but can we remove this comment just for the sheer hilarity of it?
j/k
I actually think that's pretty crappy to have that double standard for Ministro. Also not very smart to treat a reviewer that way from a PR perspective. Then again, PR is definitely not a strong suit of the Nu Godz of PRRRRRROOOOOOGGGGGG!!!1!!one!
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Ministro you went from one of MP's biggest supporters and promoters to one of his seeming enemies in about 2 weeks flat. Not
sure how that happened but I feel bad for you. You traveled a long ways to see many shows and were a true super-fan.
I'll PM you later, I don't want to continue what others called drama around this thread.
MR - please check your PMs. Thanks. :)
:-*
lol
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For all the occasional internet shortcomings he might have, Mike made on FB a very tasteful post about the show and his past in DT, saying only nice things about the band and how grateful he was to relive those memories.
I think too that an eventual reunion, although very unlikely (and Mike himself acknowledges that), would pass through Mangini leaving of his own accord and desire, and JP sitting down with the other DT guys asking "So, guys, what do we do? do you think you can sit down in a room with him and see if it would work again?"
Let's hope that never happens. It would be extremely disappointing if the band took him back after all of the cheap shots he has aimed at them over the last 7 years.
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What was the FB post?
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I don't want Mike back in DT. Mangini is perfect. JR and JP have enough vision for the band. Mike and his grudge can stay with the #newgodzofprog
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...over the last 7 years.
Damn, 7 years since the breakup.
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For all the occasional internet shortcomings he might have, Mike made on FB a very tasteful post about the show and his past in DT, saying only nice things about the band and how grateful he was to relive those memories.
I think too that an eventual reunion, although very unlikely (and Mike himself acknowledges that), would pass through Mangini leaving of his own accord and desire, and JP sitting down with the other DT guys asking "So, guys, what do we do? do you think you can sit down in a room with him and see if it would work again?"
Let's hope that never happens. It would be extremely disappointing if the band took him back after all of the cheap shots he has aimed at them over the last 7 years.
It won't happen. JP and the gang have made it pretty clear that if another member leaves there is no replacing them....that would be it. Can't recall which interview it was but it's been mentioned a few times.
Maybe you cant say 'never' but highly unlikely given the comments from JP on multiple occasions and my own belief judging from the available social media and countless interviews etc from JLB/MP that those two are nowhere near reconciliation.....much less playing together again.
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What was the FB post?
What an amazing night in NYC last night!
I'm sure everybody in attendance would agree, the emotions in the air were very intense! I really felt the love and the appreciation for revisiting this music again.
It was great seeing so many smiling faces...fans, friends and family....there were even a lot of tears flowing!
During the show, I went down memory lane w the crowd with all the classic shows I did w DT in NYC through the years:
1988 US Blues - 1st NYC show
1989 The Ritz w Marillion
1993 The Ritz w Iron Maiden
1997 Irving Plaza (20 yrs later in the same venue)
2000 Roseland - LSFNY
2002 Beacon Theater - Master Of Puppets
2006 Radio City Music Hall - Score
2010 Madison Square Garden w Iron Maiden
I loved my 25 years in DT...the band I co-created and steered the ship for for so many years...I have more great memories than I can possibly ever sum up in a post...and these Shattered Fortress shows gave me (and a lot of fans) some much needed closure.
I honestly have no idea if I'll ever play with the band ever again...I'm not opposed to it, but I also am not counting on it either...if I never do, I am glad I've been able to share these very special shows with you all again...it's been amazing!
We have one more run in South America next month and one more run in Australia in November and then it's onto the next chapter in my life and career with Sons Of Apollo...
But I'd like to take this moment to thank Eric, Charlie, Richard, Diego, Conner, Ross for learning and performing this music with so much PRECISION & PASSION....and any of YOU that made the trip to share one (or more) of these shows with me and share this music with me #OneLastTime
Carpe Diem!
MP
I was more intrigued by the next chapter in my life and career with Sons of Apollo. It sounds like he thinks it will be more of a permanent thing or at least a main band for him. Kotzen in an interview made it sound like he wants to slow Winery Dogs down and I think Mike should try to build up at least one of these bands to more than just a side gig.
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Thank you.
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That was very well written. Just the right tone to it, and plenty of ellipses in case anyone doubts that he really wrote it.
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Good post by MP.
See Stads? Credit where credit is due. You owe me a juice or something.
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Despite ragging on Mike recently that was a great little reflection. He should be proud of what he's accomplished and what he's done with TSF finally giving this one last DT gift to the fans that have been wanting it for so long.
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There's no denying the hard work and dedication that Mike puts towards things and the accomplishments he listed. In fact, a lot of the work he did in the band shows at those concerts he listed and the experience he helped shape with the setlist, stage show and direction and a lot of other behind the scenes things that he orchestrated-- the Score DVD, Master of Puppets CD and DVD, etc. MP has a lot to show for his work with DT and he shouldn't be disappointed at all
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Mike's post just showed the silliness of the shitstorm Derek's tweets have done in the past weeks. The TSF tour was Mike giving closure to his DT past, and Derek counterproductively kept the link to DT open and in a bad way.
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Let's hope that never happens. It would be extremely disappointing if the band took him back after all of the cheap shots he has aimed at them over the last 7 years.
Absolutely. If MM were no longer able to be in DT I'd rather them go with someone else before MP. If they *did* bring MP back it would totally validate his ridiculous and trash behavior over these years. I would support some kind of reconciliation and some guest performances but that's about it.
His attitude is now affecting my enjoyment of the pre-MM DT music and that really sucks. Not when they play them with MM, but when an MP-era song comes up I feel cringy.
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Great post by Mike Portnoy.
Still I don't want him back in DT even if MM left on his own accord. He has in my view shown during the last 7 years that je does not belong there and would probably not be a good influence.
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I shared this in the TSF thread, but given MP's statement, if anyone is interested in seeing his speech from the NYC show, I have it here (timestamped for you): https://youtu.be/8bwd95zKRm4?t=5m10s (https://youtu.be/8bwd95zKRm4?t=5m10s)
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For all the occasional internet shortcomings he might have, Mike made on FB a very tasteful post about the show and his past in DT, saying only nice things about the band and how grateful he was to relive those memories.
I think too that an eventual reunion, although very unlikely (and Mike himself acknowledges that), would pass through Mangini leaving of his own accord and desire, and JP sitting down with the other DT guys asking "So, guys, what do we do? do you think you can sit down in a room with him and see if it would work again?"
Let's hope that never happens. It would be extremely disappointing if the band took him back after all of the cheap shots he has aimed at them over the last 7 years.
Aerosmith, Rolling Stones, Yes, Van Halen, Kiss, Iron Maiden (the interview with Bruce linked in the discography elsewhere on this forum), Black Sabbath (more than once), Mike and Derek, The Police...
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For all the occasional internet shortcomings he might have, Mike made on FB a very tasteful post about the show and his past in DT, saying only nice things about the band and how grateful he was to relive those memories.
I think too that an eventual reunion, although very unlikely (and Mike himself acknowledges that), would pass through Mangini leaving of his own accord and desire, and JP sitting down with the other DT guys asking "So, guys, what do we do? do you think you can sit down in a room with him and see if it would work again?"
Let's hope that never happens. It would be extremely disappointing if the band took him back after all of the cheap shots he has aimed at them over the last 7 years.
It won't happen. JP and the gang have made it pretty clear that if another member leaves there is no replacing them....that would be it. Can't recall which interview it was but it's been mentioned a few times.
Maybe you cant say 'never' but highly unlikely given the comments from JP on multiple occasions and my own belief judging from the available social media and countless interviews etc from JLB/MP that those two are nowhere near reconciliation.....much less playing together again.
GMD, not attacking you or anything like that, but I was reading your post when this question struck me, so you get the quote...
These are honest questions, and not at all a sarcastic or ironic: Do any of you ever change your mind? Change your feelings? Change your view of certain events/people/relationships? I tend to re-evaluate things often, and it's amazing to me that I sometimes come to different conclusions over time. I either learn more about the situation, or more about myself, or just move past certain things bothering me. Certainly, what "bothered" me at 25 doesn't bother me at 50, and vice versa.
I'm amazed at how often posts here seem to take one thing or one event or one statement, and cast it in granite forevermore. I know for me, I went through a painful divorce in 2012/2013 (note: less than seven years ago) and the woman that I was with for 15 years (and had my only, beloved daughter) went from wife for whom I sacrificed, to mortal enemy (we talked through lawyers for a spell), to a forced nuisance(we had to parent), to a less-forced, more polite acquaintance, to, well, I wouldn't say "friend" but certainly someone I can interact with and even at times reminisce with, fondly.
People grow, evolve, change, and sometimes revert. We're not always static, and I know for me, I would hate to live life that way. I do NOT want to be the same guy I was at 25, even if I look back on that guy with fondness and appreciation.
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I would want MP back mostly because MP is a great ego capable of challenging Petrucci's great ego. JP is a great guitar player, and has even been a great songwriter at times, but I think the last two DT albums are proof that his vision alone can not sustain the legacy of band.
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@Stadler. Absolutely. I've changed my general view and outlook on life a complete 180 in the past 15-20 years. When I said it'd 'never' happen concerning MP rejoining DT it's because JP himself has said a few times that there will be no further band member changes. If someone decides to retire or leave they'd not continue as DT.
Does that mean that JP and The gang would never change their mind? Never say never, right? But like i said in that post.....everything I've read Over the past 7 years from all parties involved lead me to believe a reunion or MP ever rejoining DT is highly unlikely
I would want MP back mostly because MP is a great ego capable of challenging Petrucci's great ego. JP is a great guitar player, and has even been a great songwriter at times, but I think the last two DT albums are proof that his vision alone can not sustain the legacy of band.
Completely disagree with this.....but hey, opinions. :tup
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I'd welcome a reunion on two conditions:
- Mike Mangini leaves of his own free will
- If it's indeed true what may seem the consensus, that MP and JLB are not on speaking terms, that they'd sit down and sort it out and sincerely get along rather than barely standing each other because of the safe net that is the Dream Theater name and brand.
These things not happening would spoil an eventual reunion for me.
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I'd welcome a reunion on two conditions:
- Mike Mangini leaves of his own free will
- If it's indeed true what may seem the consensus, that MP and JLB are not on speaking terms, that they'd sit down and sort it out and sincerely get along rather than barely standing each other because of the safe net that is the Dream Theater name and brand.
These things not happening would spoil an eventual reunion for me.
I agree with this, but I'd also add a third condition - Mike doesn't try to exert control over most/every aspect of the band again, and that includes James's position in the band and on the mic. No more backing Mike vocal parts. Please. No more.
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I would want MP back mostly because MP is a great ego capable of challenging Petrucci's great ego. JP is a great guitar player, and has even been a great songwriter at times, but I think the last two DT albums are proof that his vision alone can not sustain the legacy of band.
agree on this.
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I would want MP back mostly because MP is a great ego capable of challenging Petrucci's great ego. JP is a great guitar player, and has even been a great songwriter at times, but I think the last two DT albums are proof that his vision alone can not sustain the legacy of band.
I disagree respectfully. I would put ADTOE, DT self titled and The Astonishing against Octavarium, SC and BCSL.
I truly love all the albums listed above, actually all DT albums but in my opinion they are getting stronger. Would they have if MP stayed? Possibly.
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I would want MP back mostly because MP is a great ego capable of challenging Petrucci's great ego. JP is a great guitar player, and has even been a great songwriter at times, but I think the last two DT albums are proof that his vision alone can not sustain the legacy of band.
I disagree respectfully. I would put ADTOE, DT self titled and The Astonishing against Octavarium, SC and BCSL.
I truly love all the albums listed above, actually all DT albums but in my opinion they are getting stronger. Would they have if MP stayed? Possibly.
Yeah, I not only agree with you, Bill, but I rank each of those three MM-era albums above any of the 3 MP-era albums you mentioned.
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I'd welcome a reunion on two conditions:
- Mike Mangini leaves of his own free will
- If it's indeed true what may seem the consensus, that MP and JLB are not on speaking terms, that they'd sit down and sort it out and sincerely get along rather than barely standing each other because of the safe net that is the Dream Theater name and brand.
These things not happening would spoil an eventual reunion for me.
I agree with this, but I'd also add a third condition - Mike doesn't try to exert control over most/every aspect of the band again, and that includes James's position in the band and on the mic. No more backing Mike vocal parts. Please. No more.
+1
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I would want MP back mostly because MP is a great ego capable of challenging Petrucci's great ego. JP is a great guitar player, and has even been a great songwriter at times, but I think the last two DT albums are proof that his vision alone can not sustain the legacy of band.
I disagree respectfully. I would put ADTOE, DT self titled and The Astonishing against Octavarium, SC and BCSL.
I truly love all the albums listed above, actually all DT albums but in my opinion they are getting stronger. Would they have if MP stayed? Possibly.
Yeah, I not only agree with you, Bill, but I rank each of those three MM-era albums above any of the 3 MP-era albums you mentioned.
[/b]
absolutely. The last three DT releases with MP had 'moments' but all in all were pretty bland. the first three with MM had a much better direction for my ears....
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At this point I don't want MP to join as a full time member. I do think it would be cool to see him play a one off show or something. Similar to what Spock's Beard did for Snow. Have two massive drum kits and play SFAM.
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At this point I don't want MP to join as a full time member. I do think it would be cool to see him play a one off show or something. Similar to what Spock's Beard did for Snow. Have two massive drum kits and play SFAM.
That would be really cool! Continuing with the SB analogy, they also released a big epic (Falling for Forever) with all the current and past members of the band as part of their 20th anniversary. I would love to see DT do that with the former members, but they'd have to get through a lot of stuff between them first.
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At this point I don't want MP to join as a full time member. I do think it would be cool to see him play a one off show or something. Similar to what Spock's Beard did for Snow. Have two massive drum kits and play SFAM.
I'd love to see that!! I think MM would be cool with it because he seems like a genuinely cool guy who'd understand it.....and JP and JR are on speaking terms with MP.
I think the hurdle is JLB and JMX.....judging from the social media/interview evidence out there I think it's those two guys and MP that haven't really reconciled.
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God I wish that adam02 guy was still making those classic Dream Theater videos overdubbing JP's voice. Would kill for some videos post-Portnoy split.
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At this point I don't want MP to join as a full time member. I do think it would be cool to see him play a one off show or something. Similar to what Spock's Beard did for Snow. Have two massive drum kits and play SFAM.
That would be really cool! Continuing with the SB analogy, they also released a big epic (Falling for Forever) with all the current and past members of the band as part of their 20th anniversary. I would love to see DT do that with the former members, but they'd have to get through a lot of stuff between them first.
It would be cool to see all members past and present on stage for a one off, ONLY if Derek wears this on his head the entire show.
Darn image didn't work.
It was one of those cheese head hats.
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absolutely. The last three DT releases with MP had 'moments' but all in all were pretty bland. the first three with MM had a much better direction for my ears....
A Dramatic Turn of Events is one of their best albums for Herrick. I'd say top 5.
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absolutely. The last three DT releases with MP had 'moments' but all in all were pretty bland. the first three with MM had a much better direction for my ears....
A Dramatic Turn of Events is one of their best albums for Herrick. I'd say top 5.
Yeah, it's my #3 overall (behind Six Degrees and SFAM), so it goes without saying that I love it.
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I find an MP reunion unlikely less because of his behavior and more because he would not be able to return to his former role as band leader. Same reason Roger Waters never reunited with Floyd beyond a few one offs. MP and JLB are adults, they can work out whatever it is that needs to be worked out. There have been worse band relationships that were eventually ironed out.
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absolutely. The last three DT releases with MP had 'moments' but all in all were pretty bland. the first three with MM had a much better direction for my ears....
A Dramatic Turn of Events is one of their best albums for Herrick. I'd say top 5.
Yeah, it's my #3 overall (behind Six Degrees and SFAM), so it goes without saying that I love it.
For me that would be the Self-Titled. It's my favorite since probably Train of Thought.
As for Sons of Apollo, I think that the two songs that released were good overall, but not really good enough for me to go and get the album. And I don't think that it's because they weren't prog enough. If we go with a Dream Theater comparison, both Moment of Betrayal and The Enemy Inside had me way more excited for their respective albums than the two Sons of Apollo singles. And both those songs are pretty much straigthforward metal tracks.
I also saw it mentionned a few times, but I don't think that having non-prog musician was actually necessarily a bad idea. It could have brought some interesting influences and make the band sound different than others in the genre. Unfortunately it doesn't seems to be the case so far though.
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Are "Coming Home" and "Signs of the Time" the only 2 songs to be released before the album drops in October?
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Are "Coming Home" and "Signs of the Time" the only 2 songs to be released before the album drops in October?
There COULD be more, but I don't think I've seen any confirmation that there will definitely be more.
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They should do a lyric video of the opening 10 minutes track a week or so before the release, just to boost interest up.
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1. Images and Words
2. SFAM
3. Octavarium
4. Six Degrees
5. Awake