Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him

[Darkstarshades]

But then who's 6?

THE FANS. THE FANS are the turbulence.

FIFY

[Madman Shepherd]

But then who's 6?

THE "FANS". THE "FANS" are the turbulence.

FIFY

No, I FIFY

[BlobVanDam]

[El JoNNo]

I was reading through this thread and to all those who say DT and MP will eventually get back together or might get back together then site GnR, Van Halen ect.. as examples. Keep in mind that the majority of the bands oft brought up split when they were in their 30's. DT are all within 49-59. Like it or not they don't have another 30 years in them.

[Ben_Jamin]

Yet, he doesn't seem to remember JM and JP discovered him at Berkley, which means Those two are the main core of the band.

[Tony From Long Island]

I haven't posted in a few months on here, so I hope I'm not opening a can of worms, but this thread caught my eye right away.

MP was and is the "soul" of DT.     I like Mike Mangini. He's good drummer and a good guy.  I even saw him during his brief stint in Extreme at a dump called THE ROXY on Long Island  (run by the same dude who ran SUNDANCE)

However, in my opinion, DT has been "sterile" since MP was canned.  In my opinion, THE ASTONISHING either would not have been made or would sound a lot different if MP were in the band to counter JP's ideas (yes, the fact that I don't like THE ASTONISHING probably influenced that opinion).

I won't even mention my feelings that THE LOOKING GLASS lyrics that you all shot at me for   :-)

I still remain optimistic that a reunion will happen.  But I also think the Islanders are coming back to Long Island, so what do I know??!??

However, if by some miracle, DT takes him up on his offer to play on the cruise (which they certainly will not)  Mike Mangini should obviously play also

- TC

[King Postwhore]

I think a lot of us feel that way but are realistic about how the break up happened and how Mike has handled himself after the break up.  I just don't see it happening any time soon.

[MirrorMask]

However, in my opinion, DT has been "sterile" since MP was canned.  In my opinion, THE ASTONISHING either would not have been made or would sound a lot different if MP were in the band to counter JP's ideas (yes, the fact that I don't like THE ASTONISHING probably influenced that opinion).

They were thinking about another concept album for some time already, I remember reading somewhere there was even the idea for the follow up to Black Clouds to be a concept, with the tour being half the concept and half the 12 steps suite. They would have done a concept in an album or two anyway, and of course with MP's input it would have been different.

[Darkstarshades]

While your opinion in respected, you also named some obvious things.

Obviously his opinion would have countered JP's, like EVERYONE ELSE's opinion in the band.
Never have we been told that JP and JR wrote 100% the album, and told MM exactly where and when to hit.
And JLB obviously contributed to the developement of the album.

And from what I see, you associated TLG lyrics to MP, which is total nonsense.

[mikeyd23]

I haven't posted in a few months on here, so I hope I'm not opening a can of worms, but this thread caught my eye right away.

MP was and is the "soul" of DT.     I like Mike Mangini. He's good drummer and a good guy.  I even saw him during his brief stint in Extreme at a dump called THE ROXY on Long Island  (run by the same dude who ran SUNDANCE)

However, in my opinion, DT has been "sterile" since MP was canned.  In my opinion, THE ASTONISHING either would not have been made or would sound a lot different if MP were in the band to counter JP's ideas (yes, the fact that I don't like THE ASTONISHING probably influenced that opinion).

I won't even mention my feelings that THE LOOKING GLASS lyrics that you all shot at me for   :-)

I still remain optimistic that a reunion will happen.  But I also think the Islanders are coming back to Long Island, so what do I know??!??

However, if by some miracle, DT takes him up on his offer to play on the cruise (which they certainly will not)  Mike Mangini should obviously play also

- TC

MP? That you?

[cramx3]

I haven't posted in a few months on here, so I hope I'm not opening a can of worms, but this thread caught my eye right away.

MP was and is the "soul" of DT.     I like Mike Mangini. He's good drummer and a good guy.  I even saw him during his brief stint in Extreme at a dump called THE ROXY on Long Island  (run by the same dude who ran SUNDANCE)

However, in my opinion, DT has been "sterile" since MP was canned.  In my opinion, THE ASTONISHING either would not have been made or would sound a lot different if MP were in the band to counter JP's ideas (yes, the fact that I don't like THE ASTONISHING probably influenced that opinion).

I won't even mention my feelings that THE LOOKING GLASS lyrics that you all shot at me for   :-)

I still remain optimistic that a reunion will happen.  But I also think the Islanders are coming back to Long Island, so what do I know??!??

However, if by some miracle, DT takes him up on his offer to play on the cruise (which they certainly will not)  Mike Mangini should obviously play also

- TC

MP? That you?

Cant be since Tony said MM should have been invited and MP did not invite him 

[Kotowboy]

Mike Por - Tony.

[goo-goo]

@Tony from Long Island

I feel that DT became stale *before MP left. While Systematic and Black Clouds have some good songs, both of these releases feel "formulaic". ADTOE had a very fresh sound. I don't think the band would have written something like ADTOE with MP still behind the kit.

[gmillerdrake]

since MP was canned. 

ummm....let's not re-write history here. MP quit. He wasn't canned. He tried a long con on the other members so he could have his cake and eat it to and they called his bluff and he quit. He wasn't canned....he quit. Not canned. Quit.

[mikeyd23]

Cant be since Tony said MM should have been invited and MP did not invite him 

 

[Tony From Long Island]

Wow!    Am I MP?    :-)   I wish . . . 

go back and read my opinions on the Looking Glass Lyrics. . . . that was fun . . . .

for that guy who said he quit . . . I disagree..

[Tony From Long Island]

On yeah . . . for Gmiller guy . .    yes, I agree that they were a bit STALE before MP left. . .  but that's not the same as being "sterile" since then.

I did very much like the 2013 DT album.    However, I haven't been able to listen to THE ASTONISHING through one time.   It's the first DT album I truly disdain.  It's pretentious, and the story is rehashed from a million other "concept" albums.    The concept in general is laughable . . . but anyway . . .not what this thread is about . . .

[Kotowboy]

for that guy who said he quit . . . I disagree..

Disagree all you want.


He quit.

He wasn't fired.

[gmillerdrake]

for that guy who said he quit . . . I disagree..

Disagree all you want.


He quit.

He wasn't fired.

Yeah. I don't see what there is to 'disagree' with. He left the band. They didn't fire him. They said they were't taking any breaks...at all....he said fine then, I'll leave...where I contend he was fully expecting them to beg him to stay whereas they just let him leave. It has worked out for the best for both.

[Kotowboy]

Of course.


He even tried to worm his way back in AFTER they'd filmed the Drummer Doc AND gone through all the legal paperwork etc with getting Mangini in

" FOR THE FANS "

Oh Please.

[Enigmachine]

This video is more relevant than I thought it would be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj_8E3FOU4s

It's pretentious,

 

[bosk1]

for that guy who said he quit . . . I disagree..

Disagree all you want.


He quit.

He wasn't fired.

Yeah, there isn't really anything to debate.  Even MP said that he left.  None of the five guys involved disagrees with that. 

[Tony From Long Island]

"Leaving"  while having no other option isn't really quitting.       "Letting someone leave"  while declining to show any type of loyalty to a founding member and long-time friend isn't really "firing"    so maybe it's a little of both.


For the guy who said it worked out well for both . . . really?      The Astonishing?    Yuck!

Yes, I like Winery Dogs. But DT members had been pursuing "outside projects" for years, so Winery Dogs could still have existed while MP was in DT.


I do admit that I like the 2013 DT album . . .  a lot . . . but to say it worked out well for both?     It worked out for Mike Mangini, who is a good guy and an excellent drummer.

I don't see how frayed long-time friendships can be seen as a net positive, whether it's in a band or in life.

[MirrorMask]

"Leaving"  while having no other option isn't really quitting. 

The option was there, find in himself the will to carry on. "Ok, guys, I know I asked for a break, but seeing as you all four want to continue and the only solution would be leaving, I'd rather accept the situation and commit myself to this, 'cause I don't want to lose Dream Theater".

He left. End of the story.

[King Postwhore]

The no other option part was on him.  It was all or nothing.  5 year break or else.  He could have asked for 2 years but in the end he decided he couldn't do it anymore.  So he did leave.

[BlobVanDam]

The no other option part was on him.  It was all or nothing.  5 year break or else.  He could have asked for 2 years but in the end he decided he couldn't do it anymore.  So he did leave.

It was not "5 year break or else". He said he asked for less, even half a year iirc, but the band wanted to continue, so he decided to leave.
Nothing at all wrong with the band wanting to continue and keep their momentum, especially as this is their main job, I just see some people have gotten hazy on the details over the past 6 years.

[King Postwhore]

He talked about a 5 year break.  I never read anything about less time after that.  Lets not cloudy this.  MP lost his priorities by playing in so many other bands.  Was burnt out on DT, wanted them to take a break.  He backed himself in that corner.  This isn't on the 4 other guys and never will be.

[Darkstarshades]

He talked about a 5 year break.  I never read anything about less time after that.  Lets not cloudy this.  MP lost his priorities by playing in so many other bands.  Was burnt out on DT, wanted them to take a break.  He backed himself in that corner.  This isn't on the 4 other guys and never will be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLRo9RT539k

[King Postwhore]

He talked about a 5 year break.  I never read anything about less time after that.  Lets not cloudy this.  MP lost his priorities by playing in so many other bands.  Was burnt out on DT, wanted them to take a break.  He backed himself in that corner.  This isn't on the 4 other guys and never will be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLRo9RT539k

Come on.  He wanted a break from DT.  It's still on him  1 year or 5 year it doesn't matter.  He still left the band because he put himself in that position.

[bosk1]

The no other option part was on him.  It was all or nothing.  5 year break or else.  He could have asked for 2 years but in the end he decided he couldn't do it anymore.  So he did leave.

It was not "5 year break or else". He said he asked for less, even half a year iirc, but the band wanted to continue, so he decided to leave.
Nothing at all wrong with the band wanting to continue and keep their momentum, especially as this is their main job, I just see some people have gotten hazy on the details over the past 6 years.

All true.  (except that I don't remember it being shortened to quite half a year--I think it was more like a year or two, but I could be misremembering)  But people have been saying it was "5 years or else" from the beginning, even though I think it was relatively clear that that was only Mike's initial proposal and he then offered some sort of middle ground.  Not that that ultimately changes things at the end of the day, but I agree that what actually happened should be presented fairly instead of just a partial (and biased) picture.

[Darkstarshades]

He talked about a 5 year break.  I never read anything about less time after that.  Lets not cloudy this.  MP lost his priorities by playing in so many other bands.  Was burnt out on DT, wanted them to take a break.  He backed himself in that corner.  This isn't on the 4 other guys and never will be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLRo9RT539k

Come on.  He wanted a break from DT.  It's still on him  1 year or 5 year it doesn't matter.  He still left the band because he put himself in that position.

I'm not denying that.
He says there that he didn't say specifically 5 years.

[Kotowboy]

He thought relationships were strained in DT. ***

Wanted a break to go off touring with AX7

DT didn't want a break so he left to join AX7

AX7 said that was never on the cards

MP tried to get back in DT but they'd already hired Mangini and gone through all the legal stuff to do that.

This is all from the mouths of DT & AX7. Of course what MP said happened is probably different...




*** Funnily enough - everyone gets on great now.....

[King Postwhore]

Again, I could care less if it was one, two or five years.  What matters is Mike put himself in that position and forced himself out of the band.  Now I love the guy and follow most of his musical endeavors but it's still on him that he is no longer in DT.

[Darkstarshades]

He thought relationships were strained in DT. ***

Wanted a break to go off touring with AX7

DT didn't want a break so he left to join AX7

AX7 said that was never on the cards

MP tried to get back in DT but they'd already hired Mangini and gone through all the legal stuff to do that.

This is all from the mouths of DT & AX7. Of course what MP said happened is probably different...




*** Funnily enough - everyone gets on great now.....

Put the press release...

[BlobVanDam]

The no other option part was on him.  It was all or nothing.  5 year break or else.  He could have asked for 2 years but in the end he decided he couldn't do it anymore.  So he did leave.

It was not "5 year break or else". He said he asked for less, even half a year iirc, but the band wanted to continue, so he decided to leave.
Nothing at all wrong with the band wanting to continue and keep their momentum, especially as this is their main job, I just see some people have gotten hazy on the details over the past 6 years.

All true.  (except that I don't remember it being shortened to quite half a year--I think it was more like a year or two, but I could be misremembering)  But people have been saying it was "5 years or else" from the beginning, even though I think it was relatively clear that that was only Mike's initial proposal and he then offered some sort of middle ground.  Not that that ultimately changes things at the end of the day, but I agree that what actually happened should be presented fairly instead of just a partial (and biased) picture.

I'm remembering down to either a year or half a year (I recall it was half a year, but I can't find the original source for his clarification now), but yeah, my only point was clearing up the misconception that it was 5 years or nothing, which is definitely false. People can have whatever opinion they want on the split, just at least have all of the relevant information. I wasn't arguing one side over another at all.