Dream Theater: The Astonishing (now with moment of betrayal!)

[chego_voice]

How do Mods feel about us posting links to youtube clips that are *clearly* fakes and we post them as such ?

I think it's funny hearing what people post on YT with comments neatly disabled - and pass off as new DT.

I'm in! 

[ariich]

No, and certainly not in this thread.

[me7]

Maybe they'll pull a Pain of Salvation and premier their new concept album live before releasing the CD.

[Pragmaticcircus]

Wether it's (Astonishing) a part 2 to anything is another question, but do you think we'll see some continuity with past works on this album? Or will it be closed off completely as it's own work?

[Kotowboy]

Wether it's (Astonishing) a part 2 to anything is another question, but do you think we'll see some continuity with past works on this album? Or will it be closed off completely as it's own work?

I think the album itself will be in a vacuum. However - I don't completely rule out hints to previous works.

[wizard of Thought]

New map segment!

[Pragmaticcircus]

New map segment!

I noticed that too, speculation away!!!!! 

[Train of Naught]

Not so much speculation, just like to throw this out there: Crooked Lake and Bullhead Corners are awesome names.

[Enigmachine]

I like how all three map segments have a unique colour scheme and yet the two parts at the right seem to transition smoothly.

[YouMakeMeSick]

Not so much speculation, just like to throw this out there: Crooked Lake and Bullhead Corners are awesome names.

"Don't cross the Crooked Lake".

[Kotowboy]

Not so much speculation, just like to throw this out there: Crooked Lake and Bullhead Corners are awesome names.

"Don't cross the Crooked Lake".

   This Dying Sail

[Kotowboy]

Not so much speculation, just like to throw this out there:

... I'm predicting...



The Map will be fully revealed.

[Train of Naught]

... I'm predicting...

Either one or both of the video's will be

revealed

by mid December.

[Kotowboy]

Actually I think the two glowing Nomac eyes will link to streams of Acts I or II closer to album time.

[erwinrafael]

With the music vs. noise theme, I think this album would not be sci-fi but more of a metaphor using fantasy.

[SuperTaco]

There's an area called "Borderland". Video game confirmed. 

But seriously, I'm loving the steady stream of updates. It keeps the hype level high, and I hope it continues to rise as the album release draws closer.

I'm itching to hear new music  I'm guessing that won't happen until after the map and the characters are fully revealed, though... Can there even be a single for such a project?

[jsbru]

I know we've moved on in the discussion since the new characters have been revealed, but I just want to add, with an average track length of 4 minutes on Act 1, all it would take is 4-5 transition/NOMAC sound effects tracks of 1-2 minutes on that side to make room for two or three 8-10-minute tracks, etc.

I mean, here's The Wall's layout, and this ended up being 80 minutes total for BOTH sides combined, 26 tracks total:

In the Flesh?
3:20
The Thin Ice
2:30
Another Brick in the Wall, Part 1
3:11
The Happiest Days of Our Lives
1:51
Another Brick in the Wall, Part 2
4:01
Mother
5:34
Goodbye Blue Sky
2:47
Empty Spaces
2:07
Young Lust
3:31
One of My Turns
3:35
Don't Leave Me Now
4:17
Another Brick in the Wall, Part 3
1:43
Goodbye Cruel World
1:15
Hey You
4:39
Is There Anybody Out There?
2:43
Nobody Home
3:27
Vera
1:36
Bring the Boys Back Home
1:29
Comfortably Numb
6:26
The Show Must Go On
1:38
In the Flesh
4:17
Run Like Hell
3:03
Waiting for the Worms
4:00
Stop
0:32
The Trial
5:22
Outside the Wall
1:44
Master of Ceremonies
1:16
What Shall We Do Now?
1:43
The Last Few Bricks
3:28

The Astonishing will have 8 more tracks, but 80 more minutes to work with (assuming the concert length of 2 hours and 40 minutes is for the whole album and nothing more).  That's basically The Wall's layout (which already has a 5 and 6 minute song) plus 8 additional 10 minute songs.  Or 4 additional 5-minute songs and 4 additional 15-minute songs...you get the picture.

So it's absolutely not a foregone conclusion that we won't see any longer songs on this album.

[Vandalism]

Great news everybody, but when do we suspect a single will be released? (if they do....)

Something before january is my bet, lol.

Yeah I agree . . . sometime mid to late December is when I think it'll be released . . .

6 o'clock on a Christmas Morning!

[jsbru]

That's as good a time as any.  You know damn well fans would go apeshit over a 6:00 Christmas Morning release of a single.

[Nomaniac]

Oh man I'd go crazy if that happened!!!

I hope they're looking at the forums because that would be a great idea!

But what timezone? 

[Nomaniac]

I know we've moved on in the discussion since the new characters have been revealed, but I just want to add, with an average track length of 4 minutes on Act 1, all it would take is 4-5 transition/NOMAC sound effects tracks of 1-2 minutes on that side to make room for two or three 8-10-minute tracks, etc.

I mean, here's The Wall's layout, and this ended up being 80 minutes total for BOTH sides combined, 26 tracks total:

In the Flesh?
3:20
The Thin Ice
2:30
Another Brick in the Wall, Part 1
3:11
The Happiest Days of Our Lives
1:51
Another Brick in the Wall, Part 2
4:01
Mother
5:34
Goodbye Blue Sky
2:47
Empty Spaces
2:07
Young Lust
3:31
One of My Turns
3:35
Don't Leave Me Now
4:17
Another Brick in the Wall, Part 3
1:43
Goodbye Cruel World
1:15
Hey You
4:39
Is There Anybody Out There?
2:43
Nobody Home
3:27
Vera
1:36
Bring the Boys Back Home
1:29
Comfortably Numb
6:26
The Show Must Go On
1:38
In the Flesh
4:17
Run Like Hell
3:03
Waiting for the Worms
4:00
Stop
0:32
The Trial
5:22
Outside the Wall
1:44
Master of Ceremonies
1:16
What Shall We Do Now?
1:43
The Last Few Bricks
3:28

The Astonishing will have 8 more tracks, but 80 more minutes to work with (assuming the concert length of 2 hours and 40 minutes is for the whole album and nothing more).  That's basically The Wall's layout (which already has a 5 and 6 minute song) plus 8 additional 10 minute songs.  Or 4 additional 5-minute songs and 4 additional 15-minute songs...you get the picture.

So it's absolutely not a foregone conclusion that we won't see any longer songs on this album.

Finally someone does the math for us lazy brains . . . thank you!!!

That's great to hear 

[jsbru]

But what timezone? 

Yorkeland, of course!

[jsbru]

Oh man I'd go crazy if that happened!!!

I hope they're looking at the forums because that would be a great idea!

But what timezone? 

This slow-drip of information about the new album has been elite-level trolling/teasing of fans, especially with all the nuggets of information like the year 2285 with the year numbering change starting in 2028, etc.

If they've gone this far, they might as well.

[ToT-147]

I'd say is more likely we do have 10+ minute songs and even longer songs than we haven't.. Obviously they're not going to release an album full of short tracks.. Remember is DT after all.. This is how I feel is going to be:

ACT I - 20 tracks

-Seven 1 minute songs
-Five 2 minute songs
-Three 3 minute songs
-Two 5-6 minute songs
-One 7-8 minute song
-One 11-13 minute song
-One 17-20 minute song

Total length: from 71 to 79 minutes..

ACT II - 14 tracks

-Four 1 minute songs
-Two 2 minute songs
-One 3 minute song
-Three 5-6 minute songs
-Two 7-8 minute songs
-One 11-13 minute song
-One 17-21 minute song

Total length: from 68 to 79 minutes..

[jsbru]

That's a total of 12 of the 20 songs on the first CD being ~2 minutes or less, and 15 being ~3 minutes or less.  That would definitely be more like the second disc of The Wall, then, with over half of the tracks being short/transition tracks.

I'm kind of hoping we get a little more than 5 legit songs of the first album, and that it's a little more balanced than that.  But it could work if there are 2 or so "pairs" of smaller songs that sort of blend together as one, like Empty Spaces/Young Lust, or like on Dark Side of the Moon: Speak to Me/Breathe and Brain Damage/Eclipse.

Or from a DT context, Vacant/Stream of Consciousness and Through My Words/Fatal Tragedy.

[ToT-147]

But I'm giving you 12 songs between 5 and 21! minutes.. That's more songs that they have done in any of their previous albums, except SFaM.. I think it's a lot.. And, plus that, we have the short tracks..

I think no one can complain about it if it's something like that..

[BlobVanDam]

For me, I think the less "real" songs the better. The only longer "epic" the album needs is Astonishing to finish it off, and I think a smaller number of substantial songs with a lot of short bridging/story tracks will be a lot more memorable than 40 legit shorter songs.

[Pragmaticcircus]

Lets hope they don't pull a sly one, where all tracks are 2.00 

[jsbru]

But I'm giving you 12 songs between 5 and 21! minutes.. That's more songs that they have done in any of their previous albums, except SFaM.. I think it's a lot.. And, plus that, we have the short tracks..

I think no one can complain about it if it's something like that..

That's true.  If you throw in at least two "pairs" of shorter songs forming in effect one longer song, then we have a deal. 

If there's too many of those short tracks that go nowhere, it gets boring and annoying, because most of the time, good music takes at least some time to develop.  On The Wall, Goodbye Blue Sky and Vera are really good despite this, but most of the other short tracks that don't pair up with a longer song are skippable filler.

At the same time, I simply do not believe a band can come up with 34 album-worthy 4 minute songs in about a year's time in the studio.  Nobody's that much of a creative genius, even DT.  If these really are all independent songs in and of themselves, it's almost a certainty that a good chunk of them should have seen the cutting room floor.

I hope it's somewhere in between.  Despite having 26 "tracks," The Wall has only 6-8 songs or song-pairs.  They could have gotten more out of 80 minutes of music.

[chego_voice]

That's as good a time as any.  You know damn well fans would go apeshit over a 6:00 Christmas Morning release of a single.

THIS!

[jayvee3]

I'd say is more likely we do have 10+ minute songs and even longer songs than we haven't.. Obviously they're not going to release an album full of short tracks.. Remember is DT after all.. This is how I feel is going to be:

ACT I - 20 tracks

-Seven 1 minute songs
-Five 2 minute songs
-Three 3 minute songs
-Two 5-6 minute songs
-One 7-8 minute song
-One 11-13 minute song
-One 17-20 minute song

Total length: from 71 to 79 minutes..

ACT II - 14 tracks

-Four 1 minute songs
-Two 2 minute songs
-One 3 minute song
-Three 5-6 minute songs
-Two 7-8 minute songs
-One 11-13 minute song
-One 17-21 minute song

Total length: from 68 to 79 minutes..

You would have to consider though that there may be a bunch of tracks (sound effects, talking etc) that help bridge the story that are well under the minute mark. Think 'Drones' by Muse for example, where the track 'Drill Sergeant' is 21 seconds of a Drill Sergeant (surprise, surprise) yelling and leading into the 3rd song 'Psycho'. And later in the album, JFK is simply samples of about 54 seconds or the like. There may be many of these type of story-telling tracks that are short and concise, allowing for more longer tracks. The NOMAC stuff may just be 10-15 seconds of NOMAC sounds (whatever that ends up being) that simply signify their presence or departure etc... I just think that it's so open at the moment, with so many options, that trying to over analyse it too much gives me a stomach ache.. 

[noxon]

Remember, this is very different from anything DT has ever done. All bets are off.

I think the longest track you'll see on the disc is right around the 10 minute mark, and it's at the end of Act 2. The rest will be 3-6 minutes long, aside from the NOMACS tracks which will be half a minute to two minutes long. Some of the tracks will be kinda like through my words/fatal tragedy, but the vast majority of the tracks will be averaging 4 minutes. What we will see is a lot of repeating themes. Remember, this is a rock opera! It doesn't need a lot of long songs, because the short songs is a part of the whole.

If you expect epics going in to this album, you WILL be disappointed.

[SwedishGoose]

If you expect epics going in to this album, you WILL be disappointed.

Unless you count the whole concept as one big Epic...

[Enigmachine]

Remember, this is very different from anything DT has ever done. All bets are off.

I think the longest track you'll see on the disc is right around the 10 minute mark, and it's at the end of Act 2. The rest will be 3-6 minutes long, aside from the NOMACS tracks which will be half a minute to two minutes long. Some of the tracks will be kinda like through my words/fatal tragedy, but the vast majority of the tracks will be averaging 4 minutes. What we will see is a lot of repeating themes. Remember, this is a rock opera! It doesn't need a lot of long songs, because the short songs is a part of the whole.

If you expect epics going in to this album, you WILL be disappointed.

I'm not so sure why everyone wants a big epic on a concept album anyway, because SfaM didn't really have an epic and it's considered one of their best albums. I'm repeating what I said earlier in the thread, but if they are cutting song lengths down further, I think we would probably getting more short songs that feel vast despite not being an epic like TtT, Surrounded, TMW / FT, TBP and StR. However, I do think that there is a possibility of longer songs if the NOMAC tracks are about 30 seconds each and if there are some 1 - 3 minute transition songs that group up with a longer song, there could be a possibility of a few tracks reaching above ten minutes or more tracks in the 8 - 9 minute range.

[npiazza91]

Well SFAM had Home and Finally Free, which even though they're not exactly epics, they're still above 10 minutes which I don't think we should complain about (if it's the same case for this album).  What bothers me more are those less than 3 minute songs that lead directly into another, or they have empty space and sound effects.  SFAM pulled it off by having a very emotional story that flowed perfectly, not to mention only Regression and Through My Words were the only intro songs.  This story could surprise me, but by the looks of it, it seems more fantasy based which doesn't pull me in as much.  Also, there's one thing when you have a small "intro song" or two to bridge the gap, but when it gets out of hand like Ayreon's "The Theory of Everything" or Linkin Park's "A Thousand Suns", I lose interest because the whole album might as well be condensed into like 6-8 songs.

I'll just have to see how the whole story/album plays out, I guess. Still remaining optimistic because it's Dream Theater.