Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[Kotowboy]

One of the things that always annoyed me about ST TNG and onwards is when they would use Earth idioms and just dump in some alien species.

For Example : " She ran in there like a Talaxian Bull in a china shop ! "

Just make up an alien idiom ! You will understand it's meaning by the context which it is used.

[BlobVanDam]

One of the things that always annoyed me about ST TNG and onwards is when they would use Earth idioms and just dump in some alien species.

For Example : " She ran in there like a Talaxian Bull in a china shop ! "

Just make up an alien idiom ! You will understand it's meaning by the context which it is used.

Don't you know the first rule of scifi? To make something sound spacey, just add the planet name in front of something mundane!
Ale becomes Romulan ale, wine becomes Klingon blood wine, Andorian Trivial Pursuit, Vulcan cage match fighting, and don't get me started on how many planets have their own strain of the flu! I never hear the aliens talk about Earthlican tea, or the Human flu.

Idioms do come across as silly, although I'm not sure how often they've actually done it in practice.

[Kotowboy]

I tell thee lad - I had a fookin' romulan ale last night down t'pub and I was as bladdered as a blimmin Klingon GahGagh Beast !

Make no mistake lad - i'll no be drinking again til lunchtime I tell thee .

[BlobVanDam]

Um lemme guess..... that was Scotty in Star Trek V, right? 

[Kotowboy]

Hehe. It was supposed to be a stereotypical Yorkshire accent.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm obviously not as well tuned in to the UK accents as you.


But I'm still pretty sure that was Scotty in Star Trek V.

[Kotowboy]

Jimmy probably thought it was Scottish.



But the Scots didn't.  didnae

[BlobVanDam]

Bring back Weshley, I say! That was a legit accent, and the man could yodel, I tell ya.

[El Barto]

Just to try and get back to the appropriately level of nerdishness, wouldn't the UT use "flu" for all sorts of similar infections?

[BlobVanDam]

Just to try and get back to the appropriately level of nerdishness, wouldn't the UT use "flu" for all sorts of similar infections?

I'm sure it would, but there have seriously been a ton of alien flus in Trek, and it's just funny that every single alien race seems to have a similar disease, and that the universal translator would translate whatever their word for "flu" is with "[planet] flu", instead of simply "flu", if they're that similar.
If humans can't catch it, and it's that similar, then why not just call it the flu? If humans can catch it, and it's not close enough to our flu to call the flu, why not give it a unique name in the English language and use that?

But the universal translator is a whole can of worms in itself. I think it's one of those things you just have to accept is necessary, and then try to shut it out of your mind forever.

[Kotowboy]

The UT in-universe doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

The UT as a narrative device is merely there just to explain why everyone speaks English. That's all.

It's not quite as bad as Dr. Who's sonic screwdriver being able to control pretty much everything though.

[BlobVanDam]

The sonic screwdriver is fine most of the time, when he's just using it to unlock doors etc. It's only a minority of the time I feel it ventures into magical plot device territory. But that's for the Doctor Who thread!

[PetFish]

We could have wiped out the Borg by sending them a ship full of Paclids.  I dunno how to spell their name but, you know, those "engines make us go fast" and "guns make us strong" species.

They kidnapped Geordi to "fix them and make them go" but then Worf said he'd never reach the 24th level of blahblah cuz he was helping them but it was all a trick.

1) Borg assimilate moron species
2) Borg turn into moron junk traders
3) ...
4) Profit (Borg end up being Jawas in Star Wars)

[El Barto]

I absolutely loved how they kept shooting Geordi over and over. 

[rumborak]

Even though, I *never* understood how Geordi was supposed to pick up on their ploy. And more magically, how he did.

[Orbert]

I haven't seen it in a while, but I think the idea was that Worf's speech about not attaining the 24th level of blahblah was the clue to exercise Protocol 24 or something, in which a hostage does something which fools the enemy yet the Enterprise crew, being in on it, are able to take advantage of it, assist in freeing the hostage, and they all live happily ever after.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah I thought that was obvious. Worf says level 24 and Laforge goes

"....oh right. " in a manner like he understands but doesn't want to let on.

[rumborak]

That part was obvious. In terms of script writing they should have clued the viewer in more what "24" means. As it was shown, Worf says a magic number, and everybody lived happily ever after.

[Kotowboy]

Not really. He was quite clearly speaking in code. The point is Geordi understood.

The way everyone was like " tough break Geordi. we'll miss you. "

They were obviously pretending for the Pakleds and letting the audience in on the ruse

At the same time.

[Kotowboy]

I still want to get this :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Trek-Stardate-Collection-Remastered/dp/B00BKN6ZRI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410391134&sr=8-1&keywords=Star+Trek+Movie+Collection

Then I can get rid off all my mismatching DVDs

[BlobVanDam]

I got all of my DVDs more recently (but individually), so luckily they all match. It also means I'm stuck with the theatrical cut of TMP.
STXI and ST:ID don't match the rest, or each other, but they did come in a 2 movie boxset, so it looks as matched as it can.

[Kotowboy]

I don't have a Blu Ray player but I might also get the new Star Trek, Star Trek into Darkness boxset which comes with a ton more extras and watch them at my bro's house.

[El Barto]

I got all of my DVDs more recently (but individually), so luckily they all match. It also means I'm stuck with the theatrical cut of TMP.
STXI and ST:ID don't match the rest, or each other, but they did come in a 2 movie boxset, so it looks as matched as it can.

Man, the theatrical cut of TMP made zero sense. I'm surprised they even still offer that thing.

[BlobVanDam]

I got all of my DVDs more recently (but individually), so luckily they all match. It also means I'm stuck with the theatrical cut of TMP.
STXI and ST:ID don't match the rest, or each other, but they did come in a 2 movie boxset, so it looks as matched as it can.

Man, the theatrical cut of TMP made zero sense. I'm surprised they even still offer that thing.

Despite the theatrical version being a rushed mess, I'm all for the original version of a movie still being available (see Star Wars OT), and the people who do like it were probably mostly the ones who saw it back in 1979, and want the version they remember. So there would be demand for it, as far as that movie goes.
Another problem with the director's cut of TMP, is that I believe it was all done at SD (including the new visual effects), so I don't think they could release it in a HD format without redoing it.

[El Barto]

I got all of my DVDs more recently (but individually), so luckily they all match. It also means I'm stuck with the theatrical cut of TMP.
STXI and ST:ID don't match the rest, or each other, but they did come in a 2 movie boxset, so it looks as matched as it can.

Man, the theatrical cut of TMP made zero sense. I'm surprised they even still offer that thing.

Despite the theatrical version being a rushed mess, I'm all for the original version of a movie still being available (see Star Wars OT), and the people who do like it were probably mostly the ones who saw it back in 1979, and want the version they remember. So there would be demand for it, as far as that movie goes.

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Made available is fine, but necessarily promoted? Nobody thinks the original was better in this case. As opposed to GL who is universally considered to have completely fucked up SW.

[King Postwhore]

Babysitting tonight and using my brother's Netflix and watching DD Far Beyond The Stars.  I love this episode.

[Nefarius]

Agreed, fine episode and all the alien characters without alien make up is so much fun, too

Greetings...
Nef

[Progmetty]

Last week I watch the most nonsensical episode I've seen so far of this show, it was pretty awful.
The episode is called Space Seed and though I'm pretty sure you've all seen it; let me recap what I thought happened.
The Enterprise finds a vessel that has humans who've been asleep since the 1990's, they bring the first one they wake up on board and give him access to their information network, don't really press on knowing his back story even though he's conscience and alert...
The guy seduces a nympho to cooperate with him, he just straight out tells her he want to take over the ship..
Kirk and the gang find out that the guy is a super human dictator/vicious conqueror from the 1990's, they put a guard on his door..
Kirk goes to ask him a few question and the guy basically tells Kirk to get bent and makes it clear he has evil plans.
Kirk still thinks it's cool to leave the vicious super human conqueror in a sleeping quarter with one guard on the door..
The guy escapes, I would have, Hulk Hogan would have and Steve Buscemi would have.
The guy takes over the ship -rather easily- with his men and attempts to murder Kirk while his crew watched, his crew rough handles the Uhura and then after Kirk miraculously gets free, acting like this was his plan all along heh; the guy gives him the worse beating he's had since the start of whole series while attempting to blow up the Enterprise after his quest for world domination falls through. Kirk manages to defeat the guy with a.. I dunno what thing was.
Here's the kicker: Kirk's decision? let the guy and his people go live on an uninhabited planet.. pretty much no punishment there, it's good dude we all almost kill everybody everyday, it's just a thing that happens.
The nympho? Kirk gives her a choice of either getting court martialed for fucking TREASON!!!! or go live with the guy on his planet..
I didn't know whether to laugh or giggle.

[El Barto]

Well, you just blasted one of the most revered episodes in all of Star Trek. 

A couple of things to get used to. Bad people will take over the ship all the time. They'll take off with shuttlecraft all the time, too. It's just part of the game. Without all of these thefts and hijackings you lose a lot of potential, yet important plot devices. Here's something you'll definitely be seeing a lot of:

Sir, I'm detecting an unauthorized launch of a shuttlecraft.
Stop it. Close the bay doors!
Too late sir, he's already gone.
Get a tractor beam on him!
He's just out of range, sir.
Beam him out of there!
too late sir, he's got his shields up now.

Oh, and people will beam off the ship without authorization, too. The simple truth is that if we were to believe that ship's security were at all passable there wouldn't be many stories to tell. Best not to dwell on it.

As for Khan, the subplot with McGiver was pretty silly. I always thought she flipped out way too early. But letting Khan go was pretty reasonable (for what we know up until now, at least). He was a genuine badass, and not inherently evil; just ambitious. Plus, if you think about it, he and his goons would probably be damned difficult to imprison. Leaving them all stranded on a deserted planet was as good a strategy as any at that particular point of time.

[jammindude]

IMHO, anyone who doesn't look at TOS within the context of the time period it came out in, is simply never going to be able to appreciate it for what it was.   That, combined with the fact that no one ever imagined in a million years that the show would A) ever be rewatched at all...B) much less rewatched over and over and over again...and C) dissected in high definition.   

This is also why most ST fans really can't appreciate TNG Season 1 for what it was either. 

[Progmetty]

Well, you just blasted one of the most revered episodes in all of Star Trek. 

I didn't know it was until after I posted here then went to look it up expecting to find bad reviews just to be amazed to find the opposite heh
I also learned that we'll run into Khan again further down the line, I really hope his first words are "You should have killed me when you had the chance!" 

A couple of things to get used to. Bad people will take over the ship all the time.

Yep, I'm used to that now and also used to how easy it is to do so

But letting Khan go was pretty reasonable (for what we know up until now, at least). He was a genuine badass, and not inherently evil; just ambitious. Plus, if you think about it, he and his goons would probably be damned difficult to imprison. Leaving them all stranded on a deserted planet was as good a strategy as any at that particular point of time.

The fact they he wasn't inherently evil doesn't change the fact that he tried to kill Kirk and threatened to kill the crew then attempted to blow up the Enterprise, I mean this was the most gruesome villain so far! I thought severe punishment was due unless I missed something about them being indestructible, I mean Kirk did manage to defeat him in a hand to hand combat and Khan's men fainted when gas was released into that meetings room. I would have just blasted Khan and his men into space if you can't execute them for some reason.

IMHO, anyone who doesn't look at TOS within the context of the time period it came out in, is simply never going to be able to appreciate it for what it was.   That, combined with the fact that no one ever imagined in a million years that the show would A) ever be rewatched at all...B) much less rewatched over and over and over again...and C) dissected in high definition.   

I do look at it within the context of the time period and I let a lot of stuff go usually and even rather enjoy the contrast between the nature of plot development and script writing in the 50's though the 70's and now. I watch and listen to a lot of old shows and enjoy it but I still thought this episode was rather weak in those terms.
Oh well, perhaps I'll come to appreciate this one later on.

[El Barto]

But letting Khan go was pretty reasonable (for what we know up until now, at least). He was a genuine badass, and not inherently evil; just ambitious. Plus, if you think about it, he and his goons would probably be damned difficult to imprison. Leaving them all stranded on a deserted planet was as good a strategy as any at that particular point of time.

The fact they he wasn't inherently evil doesn't change the fact that he tried to kill Kirk and threatened to kill the crew then attempted to blow up the Enterprise, I mean this was the most gruesome villain so far! I thought severe punishment was due unless I missed something about them being indestructible, I mean Kirk did manage to defeat him in a hand to hand combat and Khan's men fainted when gas was released into that meetings room. I would have just blasted Khan and his men into space if you can't execute them for some reason.

Well, he didn't try to blow the ship up. He was trying to steal it. And I believe the only person they tried to kill was Kirk. Still, the nature of his crime was irrelevant. I think what really mattered is that Khan was very likely the most advanced human in the universe. Kirk understandably felt that killing him or tossing him away would be a loss. Stradning him on Ceti Alpha whatever was a good solution. Hell, even Spock expressed curiosity at what might become of the planet in a hundred years.

And while Khan might be the nastiest villain Kirk has had to deal with, when he comes back later he's driven completely by hatred and rage. He'll make his younger self look like Mr. Rogers. 0

[BlobVanDam]

Well, you just blasted one of the most revered episodes in all of Star Trek. 

Even I'll jump in and defend this one without question. One of the best, if for no other reason than the amazing chemistry between Kirk and Khan throughout.

As for Khan, the subplot with McGiver was pretty silly. I always thought she flipped out way too early. But letting Khan go was pretty reasonable (for what we know up until now, at least). He was a genuine badass, and not inherently evil; just ambitious. Plus, if you think about it, he and his goons would probably be damned difficult to imprison. Leaving them all stranded on a deserted planet was as good a strategy as any at that particular point of time.

McGivers flipping was a bit silly and unbelievable, but I could accept it for the story. Khan was supposed to be extremely charismatic, McGivers was obsessed with the time period, and also it was the 1960s so it doesn't surprise me that they made a female character that weak willed.

The ending was typically optimistic for Star Trek, and given what it led to later, I really won't fault that either. Just capturing them wouldn't have really had much meaning, but giving them the opportunity to live by their own rules on a planet they had no chance of escaping was very Trek.

When you put it in the context of TWOK, that ending is actually a very cool bit of unintentional foreshadowing, and Space Seed is easily one of the best episodes of TOS imo.

[jammindude]

I don't even put it down to the time period.   It may not be PC to portray it anymore, but women like that have always existed and they still exist today.

I suppose that's why I never got the critics.  I mean, I have no desire to portray that as an ideal role model for women to follow, but the fact is that people like that exist in reality, and it's often considered to be bad form to portray a person of that character, even if it's inherent to the plot.

[El Barto]

Something that intrigues me is whether Space Seed would still get the love it does if not for TWoK 15 years later. It'd still be a good episode, but being part one of the Khan story boosts it considerably. I doubt it's a top ten episode as a stand alone.