Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS*

[425]

I totally agree with bosk and hef on Iron Man 3. I can understand why fans of the comic wouldn't be too keen on the twist, but in terms of sheer storytelling, it was a good movie, probably in the top half of Marvel movies for me. I do somewhat agree with Adami, though, that the last third could have been better, especially since the first two thirds were so refreshingly personal.

Bosk, if the opportunity ever arises to see Agent Carter season 2, I will, if only for the sake of completion and because I found at least one person who I know is a Marvel fan who found it to be worthwhile (seriously, I often disagree with popular opinion, so if one person finds something really good, that's enough to pique my interest even if it doesn't look great). Obviously with it now off the air that may not happen, but I will if the opportunity arises.

[erwinrafael]

Iron Man 3 is amazing. I actually applauded the twist because it corresponds with the postmodern idea od the spectacle and simulation, which a lot of terrorists actually engage in. It's not a stupid plot twist.

As for the final battle scene, Tony is not controlling the suits. They all have some sort of intelligent programming, the same reason why Tony Stark has good fighting skills when he is IM. A lot of those are programmed in the armor.

[Adami]

***SPOILERS SERIOUSLY KOTOW GO WATCH THIS MOVIE SO I CAN STOP PUTTING THIS***

Iron Man 3 is amazing. I actually applauded the twist because it corresponds with the postmodern idea od the spectacle and simulation, which a lot of terrorists actually engage in. It's not a stupid plot twist.

As for the final battle scene, Tony is not controlling the suits. They all have some sort of intelligent programming, the same reason why Tony Stark has good fighting skills when he is IM. A lot of those are programmed in the armor.

The twist to make the Mandarin a creation to turn mistakes into terrorist actions is clever. The twist to make him into a drunken drug addicted British buffoon was silly.

Fair point about the armor. Sadly it doesn't make the fight nay more interesting or make me care any more for what's going on. It's still random good guys I don't know fighting random bad guys I don't know. If they had really just focused on Iron Man vs Aldrich, even with him switching suits like he did, that would have been fine. Also remove the whole Pepper becoming immortal thing.

[erwinrafael]

*** DO WE REALLY HAVE TO MARK SPOILERS FOR A YEARS-OLD MOVIE?  ***

The twist, for me, highlights artistically (not realistically) the farcical nature of the villain. It sort of poetically mirrors Tony's own problems, with his IM persona being the farce, the artificial creation that he has been looking at for the problem when the real problem is with the man behind the armor.

The end scene is indeed the obligatory big action scene, but I guess that's par for the course for superhero movies. Even Winter Soldier, for all its greatness for its almost-street level action for the most part of the film, had to go for that big ending to I guess satisfy the summer-movie blockbuster going crowd. I'll let it pass.

[BlackInk]

*spoilers I guess*

The minions isn't the problem of the ending action scene for me. I think it's emotionally unsatisfying for even the main characters. For example, a few minutes into it they kill Pepper, at least as far as Tony knows. This earns like a few seconds of being angry before turning back to comedy. Pepper just died, joke-time should be fucking over. You don't have to be as dark as the DCU, but at least treat your own movie with respect.

The twist is far from the movie's only problem.

[bosk1]

*** DO WE REALLY HAVE TO MARK SPOILERS FOR A YEARS-OLD MOVIE?  ***

I'm generally of the mind that, if you are entering a thread about a given movie or album you haven't seen/heard yet, you do so at your own risk.  But he said he hasn't seen the movie yet and plans to do so, and it has a major plot twist that would easily be spoiled, so I am just trying to be sensitive to that.

[Adami]

*** DO WE REALLY HAVE TO MARK SPOILERS FOR A YEARS-OLD MOVIE?  ***

The twist, for me, highlights artistically (not realistically) the farcical nature of the villain. It sort of poetically mirrors Tony's own problems, with his IM persona being the farce, the artificial creation that he has been looking at for the problem when the real problem is with the man behind the armor.

The end scene is indeed the obligatory big action scene, but I guess that's par for the course for superhero movies. Even Winter Soldier, for all its greatness for its almost-street level action for the most part of the film, had to go for that big ending to I guess satisfy the summer-movie blockbuster going crowd. I'll let it pass.

More spoilers.


Yea, you keep talking about one aspect of the twist and ignoring what I said about the other. I said the idea of the Mandarin being a PR creation was fine, it was him being a drunken junkie buffoon that was silly.

And with Winter Soldier, you missed the point, I didn't say action is bad. I said action where I don't care about either side is bad. In Winter Soldier, I care about Cap, Falcon, Widow, Bucky, etc. Hell, I even care about SHIELD. Why should I care about random badguys I've never even heard of until that moment or suits of armor that can just be rebuilt?

Argue all you want, but please argue my actual points.

I should also point out again, I did like Iron Man 3, I just didn't like the last act.

[jingle.boy]

The last act was just eye-candy for sure, but did have a purpose in setting up evolution of the tech that Tony uses in his suits, and the evolution of Jarvis' AI capabilities - eventually leading him to evolve into The Vision.  But yeah.. I agree with everything else you said Adami.

[bosk1]

All of it really had a purpose.  But no matter how integral and important to the overall Marvel arc, I get that it just didn't emotionally resonate with Adami.  That just is what it is, and I can certainly respect that.

[erwinrafael]

*** DO WE REALLY HAVE TO MARK SPOILERS FOR A YEARS-OLD MOVIE?  ***

The twist, for me, highlights artistically (not realistically) the farcical nature of the villain. It sort of poetically mirrors Tony's own problems, with his IM persona being the farce, the artificial creation that he has been looking at for the problem when the real problem is with the man behind the armor.

The end scene is indeed the obligatory big action scene, but I guess that's par for the course for superhero movies. Even Winter Soldier, for all its greatness for its almost-street level action for the most part of the film, had to go for that big ending to I guess satisfy the summer-movie blockbuster going crowd. I'll let it pass.

More spoilers.


Yea, you keep talking about one aspect of the twist and ignoring what I said about the other. I said the idea of the Mandarin being a PR creation was fine, it was him being a drunken junkie buffoon that was silly.

And with Winter Soldier, you missed the point, I didn't say action is bad. I said action where I don't care about either side is bad. In Winter Soldier, I care about Cap, Falcon, Widow, Bucky, etc. Hell, I even care about SHIELD. Why should I care about random badguys I've never even heard of until that moment or suits of armor that can just be rebuilt?

Argue all you want, but please argue my actual points.

I should also point out again, I did like Iron Man 3, I just didn't like the last act.

Oh I am not arguing. I am just giving my take on it. The plot twist did not feel silly to me because the silliness had a storytelling purpose so I can sort of get why the twist was that way.

And I agree that the ending is not emotionally resonant, but it is just a way to appease the audience who wants to watch a spectacle because it is a big summer movie. I just enjoyed it for what it is, a spectacle, and my wife and I just marveled at the different types of IM armors because that's the point of the scene.

[ariich]

marveled

But yes, I don't really mind these over the top action finales. Of course I do prefer it when there's more genuine tension, but I'm quite happy with them being a bit of fun too, as long as whole films aren't like that.

I also loved everything about the Mandarin twist.

[erwinrafael]

Mandarin twist. Sound like a new flavor for a bottled juice. 

[hefdaddy42]

Also, the twist was somewhat resolved in the short film "All Hail the King" on the Thor:The Dark World blu-ray.

[bosk1]

I am curious whether that setup will bear any fruit going forward, or if it was just a fun way to throw a bone to fans.

[BlackInk]

I liked that short. I like the idea that there's actually a real Mandarin out there somewhere, whether we'll ever see him or not.

[Adami]

I am curious whether that setup will bear any fruit going forward, or if it was just a fun way to throw a bone to fans.

I thought it was cool, but very much felt like they realized how badly the fans reacted to their decision and this was their very easy and cost effective way to backtrack and do damage control.

I doubt we'll ever see the real Mandarin or hear of him ever again.

[TioJorge]

Totally what Adami said. They messed up their chance and are moving on, and they should. It'd just be backpedaling to try it again in any fashion and would also feel cheap and unimaginative at this point. I also feel like the fact that it was a short and an 'extra' says it all.

Honestly, I'm kind of glad that the end of Phase 3 will likely be a big shift in both actors and in superheros (well, for the most part...I'm pretty sure Cap and Stark are here to stay...and hopefully Spidey; fucking A...his reboots). I'm excited to see how it all ends but I'm beginning to wax and wane on the whole thing. I'm hoping that Civil War reignites some kind of flame because if not, I'm going to be super burned out by the time the Thanos show down happens.

[bosk1]

Honestly, I'm kind of glad that the end of Phase 3 will likely be a big shift in both actors and in superheros (well, for the most part...I'm pretty sure Cap and Stark are here to stay...and hopefully Spidey; fucking A...his reboots).

I'm not so sure.  I think RJD is done after Civil War, which likely means Iron Man is done.  And I think phase 3 will end Rogers being Cap.

[hefdaddy42]

Downey was signed for Avengers 3 (before it was split into two parts), so he will be involved in one or both of them.

But after that, I would imagine Tony Stark will cease to be an overly important part of the MCU.

[bosk1]

Oh, I thought I had read that he was only signed on officially through Avengers 2, and extended for Civil War.  I may be misremembering.

[hefdaddy42]

His original deal was for 6 films, which they broke down to include three IM films and 3 Avengers films.  He did sign to extend the deal by one film to get him into Civil War.

[jingle.boy]

His original deal was for 6 films, which they broke down to include three IM films and 3 Avengers films.  He did sign to extend the deal by one film to get him into Civil War.

I believe that Evans' deal was also 6 films, wasn't it?  And wasn't Jackson's to do 9?  And Sebastian Stan's was also 6 films??  If so, he's got 3 flick's still in him.  My guess is Infinity Wars + Cap 4.

[TioJorge]

I'd be really surprised (though not dumbfounded) if Iron Man and Cap just stopped existing in the MCU. I mean, even Downey has made comments about someone else 'taking up the mantle' in the past when he was initially talking about winding down his superhero career. Granted, a one off comment doesn't mean anything but it's pretty much what I assumed. Iron Man is arguably the most known out of the MCU when it comes to the masses, I think. I definitely would expect some kind of break from the Iron Man character, lengthy or not (as well as Cap, perhaps even lengthier); but I'd be pretty surprised if they just stopped outright.

I can see them taking a long break, but my money is on them eventually having another Stark and/or another character take up Iron Man altogether at some point in time (I think that latter part is really iffy though). Hell, with the state of films, ten fold regarding superhero films, and reboots...I can totally see it happening. But I wouldn't be too heartbroken to see them go, they've certainly had their time to shine. But honestly...it's all about money in the end and I struggle to think of another pair of heroes who could rake in the cash like Iron Man and Cap.

[Lucien]

Didn't the Winter Soldier take up the mantle of Captain America in the comics? After Captain America was killed? In the Civil War series?

[Zantera]

Didn't the Winter Soldier take up the mantle of Captain America in the comics? After Captain America was killed? In the Civil War series?

He did, but I don't think that will happen in the movies. Maybe if Captain America goes underground and hangs up the mantle, they let Winter Soldier take over in a "there must always be a Captain America to give people hope" way, but have the real Cap return for Avengers. I just hope they don't kill Cap and then resurrect him in Infinity War again. That's the worst part about the MCU, characters die, but they don't stay dead.

[jingle.boy]

Didn't the Winter Soldier take up the mantle of Captain America in the comics? After Captain America was killed? In the Civil War series?

He did, but I don't think that will happen in the movies. Maybe if Captain America goes underground and hangs up the mantle, they let Winter Soldier take over in a "there must always be a Captain America to give people hope" way, but have the real Cap return for Avengers. I just hope they don't kill Cap and then resurrect him in Infinity War again. That's the worst part about the MCU, characters die, but they don't stay dead.

Well, the Infinity Stones (Time and Reality specifically) give the Marvel universe those options.

[Zantera]

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Captain America dies, that they use Dr. Strange to somehow bring him back in Infinity War. It wouldn't be that far off. Because as cool as Dr. Strange is, he really is an "out there" character, and I think they are introducing him before Infinity War for a reason, and that is he will play a part.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, but Doctor Strange doesn't really have power over life and death.  If a character actually dies, it would probably take something along the lines of the Infinity stones to do that.

[Zantera]

Yeah, but Doctor Strange doesn't really have power over life and death.  If a character actually dies, it would probably take something along the lines of the Infinity stones to do that.

What about the original Wasp being stuck in the quantum realm? That element struck me as something that could tie into Dr Strange.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, but Doctor Strange doesn't really have power over life and death.  If a character actually dies, it would probably take something along the lines of the Infinity stones to do that.

What about the original Wasp being stuck in the quantum realm? That element struck me as something that could tie into Dr Strange.

Possibly, but that would just be moving a person from one physical place to another physical place.  Not resurrection.

[Lucien]

Yeah, but Doctor Strange doesn't really have power over life and death.  If a character actually dies, it would probably take something along the lines of the Infinity stones to do that.

What about the original Wasp being stuck in the quantum realm? That element struck me as something that could tie into Dr Strange.

Possibly, but that would just be moving a person from one physical place to another physical place.  Not resurrection.

She's probably dead having been stuck there for a longass time

I refuse to watch Ant-Man again because of how sick that scene made me feel

[The Trooper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EBwfGdac7s

Loki does the weather report

[Kotowboy]

Tom Hiddleston Does the Weather

[Zook]

Thomas William Hiddleston does the weather.

[retaehTmaerD]

Dr. Strange photos   

https://mcuexchange.com/cumberbatch-and-ejiofor-return-in-more-doctor-strange-set-photos/