2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty

[Cool Chris]

And now I just saw a headline where an Eagles fan punched a police horse.

No word yet on what charges the alleged perpetrator will be saddled with.

[El Barto]

I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down.  But that's just a guess.

But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.

Pretty sure he would be down by contact. Also, the refs want to be quick to whistle a play dead, assuming it's dead, to prevent late hits and pile-ons.

[gmillerdrake]

I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down.  But that's just a guess.

But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.

Pretty sure he would be down by contact. Also, the refs want to be quick to whistle a play dead, assuming it's dead, to prevent late hits and pile-ons.

Ehh....I don't know EB. He was never touched after he had the ball. They have to let a play like that run IMO....that's (7) points right there that was taken away by a quick whistle. If he was indeed down, then the Pats challenge and they start from there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOX-IymctMY

[bosk1]

Yeah, there's no way he isn't down by contact there.  It isn't even close.  No need to hold of blowing the whistle.  Jack didn't seem to have a problem with the whistle either. 

[jingle.boy]

I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down.  But that's just a guess.

But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.

Pretty sure he would be down by contact. Also, the refs want to be quick to whistle a play dead, assuming it's dead, to prevent late hits and pile-ons.

Kinda like a blowing the play dead when the play clock hits 0?    You can't have it both ways EB... to say that the refs are and should be quick to blow plays dead, but then ignore it with the DoG call, and put the fault on the Jags.  I don't want to beat a dead horse (I'm not from Philly), but THAT was my issue about that DoG call.  It was a fair call, but it was late.  Very late.  Like end of the play late.  Conveniently turning 1st and 10 at the 30ish to 3rd and 12 from the 50ish.

Here's that play.  You tell me when you hear the whistle.

https://youtu.be/q8w4pbAkkGc?t=386

[cramx3]

I missed what the Philly fans did to the Vikings bus. Can someone clue me in?

I missed it as well but just came across this (doesn't mention the bus though) https://www.yahoo.com/sports/vikings-fans-didnt-best-experience-eagles-game-180137998.html

[King Postwhore]

You can hear right after the snap that the refs were blowing the whistle.  That's the right call.  You can't come out of a timeout and have a delay of game.


Now the fumble I'd say he wasn't touched and the refs blew the whistle too early.

[Nick]

And now I just saw a headline where an Eagles fan punched a police horse.

No word yet on what charges the alleged perpetrator will be saddled with.

You sir are a hero.

[jingle.boy]

You can hear right after the snap that the refs were blowing the whistle.  That's the right call.  You can't come out of a timeout and have a delay of game.

Then you sir have better hearing than I.  I agree it was the "right" call and it was total sloppiness by the Jags.  But we've all seen those plays also NOT called DoG.

I don't buy into the whole conspiracy/mafia/ref-on-the-payroll crap.  I simply recognize that the Pats are repeatedly a net-benefactor of questionable calls/non-calls.

[El Barto]

I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down.  But that's just a guess.

But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.

Pretty sure he would be down by contact. Also, the refs want to be quick to whistle a play dead, assuming it's dead, to prevent late hits and pile-ons.

Ehh....I don't know EB. He was never touched after he had the ball. They have to let a play like that run IMO....that's (7) points right there that was taken away by a quick whistle. If he was indeed down, then the Pats challenge and they start from there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOX-IymctMY

Absolutely down by contact. I doubt even Kev would question that the play should have been allowed to continue.

[El Barto]

You can hear right after the snap that the refs were blowing the whistle.  That's the right call.  You can't come out of a timeout and have a delay of game.


Now the fumble I'd say he wasn't touched and the refs blew the whistle too early.

It was contact with Lewis that caused him to be on the ground. He doesn't need to be touched again.

[jingle.boy]

You can hear right after the snap that the refs were blowing the whistle.  That's the right call.  You can't come out of a timeout and have a delay of game.


Now the fumble I'd say he wasn't touched and the refs blew the whistle too early.

It was contact with Lewis that caused him to be on the ground. He doesn't need to be touched again.

Yes, you're right.  But maybe I'm not clear of the rules... Jack didn't have possession of the ball when contact by Lewis was made.  How can you 'tackle' someone that doesn't have the ball?  Isn't it the contact directly related to being the ball carrier?  Again, maybe I don't know the rules properly.

[El Barto]

I am of course speculating here, but I would guess that the play being whistled dead had something to do with the player being down.  But that's just a guess.

But he was never touched. I think that may be 'why' the ref blew the whistle....but again....it was "fortunate" the whistle blew and made it impossible for him to close out his great play. A quick whistle that could have not bee blown. Let the play happen....if the Pats want to challenge he was down then they can challenge.

Pretty sure he would be down by contact. Also, the refs want to be quick to whistle a play dead, assuming it's dead, to prevent late hits and pile-ons.

Kinda like a blowing the play dead when the play clock hits 0?    You can't have it both ways EB... to say that the refs are and should be quick to blow plays dead, but then ignore it with the DoG call, and put the fault on the Jags.  I don't want to beat a dead horse (I'm not from Philly), but THAT was my issue about that DoG call.  It was a fair call, but it was late.  Very late.  Like end of the play late.  Conveniently turning 1st and 10 at the 30ish to 3rd and 12 from the 50ish.

Here's that play.  You tell me when you hear the whistle.

https://youtu.be/q8w4pbAkkGc?t=386

Were they playing an official short at that point? I don't see the referee in his position at the start of that play.

Also, I didn't say they were and should be quick. I said they wanted to be. 

[El Barto]

You can hear right after the snap that the refs were blowing the whistle.  That's the right call.  You can't come out of a timeout and have a delay of game.


Now the fumble I'd say he wasn't touched and the refs blew the whistle too early.

It was contact with Lewis that caused him to be on the ground. He doesn't need to be touched again.

Yes, you're right.  But maybe I'm not clear of the rules... Jack didn't have possession of the ball when contact by Lewis was made.  How can you 'tackle' someone that doesn't have the ball?  Isn't it the contact directly related to being the ball carrier?  Again, maybe I don't know the rules properly.

I think he was still in contact with Lewis when he gained possession. But that is a good question and I don't know the answer. It's also the case that I'm not sure the official on the sideline even thought that it was a fumble. They were both well on the ground when the ball came out. The whistle might have been blown because Lewis was down by contact. That was certainly my first take.

[Dublagent66]

There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?

Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.

That's why they'll probably lose the SB.  Nobody will be surprised about that either.  Just like nobody will be surprised about the Pats winning.  So, I'm not expecting any surprises.

[King Postwhore]

El Barto,  I think that we've seen so many calls for a similar play get called so differently that as fans we can't can't figure out what is the right call.  That leads to "fans" calling what they see,with emotion.  HD instant replay causes too many questions.

[cramx3]

I'm rooting for the Pats.  Id rather see greatness continue to be great than see the Eagles win (I'm a Giants fan).  Also, as a Giants fan, I would never set foot in that Eagles stadium for a game wearing Giants colors.  The Eagles fans are well known for being really bad towards visiting fans.  There is nothing enjoyable about going to an away game in that environment.  There's also nothing to be proud about acting that way. 

[King Postwhore]

Let the smack talk begin!!

[El Barto]

I'm rooting for the Pats.  Id rather see greatness continue to be great than see the Eagles win (I'm a Giants fan).  Also, as a Giants fan, I would never set foot in that Eagles stadium for a game wearing Giants colors.  The Eagles fans are well known for being really bad towards visiting fans.  There is nothing enjoyable about going to an away game in that environment.  There's also nothing to be proud about acting that way.

And as I told Neon back when she was posting if she wanted to wear her Eagles jersey to a cowboys game here she'd probably have a great time. She'd take a good-natured ribbing, but that's the whole point. If anybody took it too far 80k Texans would be decidedly on her side. That's just courtesy.

[jingle.boy]

El Barto,  I think that we've seen so many calls for a similar play get called so differently that as fans we can't can't figure out what is the right call.  That leads to "fans" calling what they see,with emotion.  HD instant replay causes too many questions.

Now this is something I can agree with.

Oh, and that meme was fantastic.

[Stadler]

There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?

Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.

That's why they'll probably lose the SB.  Nobody will be surprised about that either.  Just like nobody will be surprised about the Pats winning.  So, I'm not expecting any surprises.

Surprisingly, I'm not surprised by that (that you're not expecting any surprises).

[cramx3]

I'm rooting for the Pats.  Id rather see greatness continue to be great than see the Eagles win (I'm a Giants fan).  Also, as a Giants fan, I would never set foot in that Eagles stadium for a game wearing Giants colors.  The Eagles fans are well known for being really bad towards visiting fans.  There is nothing enjoyable about going to an away game in that environment.  There's also nothing to be proud about acting that way.

And as I told Neon back when she was posting if she wanted to wear her Eagles jersey to a cowboys game here she'd probably have a great time. She'd take a good-natured ribbing, but that's the whole point. If anybody took it too far 80k Texans would be decidedly on her side. That's just courtesy.

Yea totally, that's how we treat our visiting fans at PSU football games.  No doubt there's always some asshole who goes too far, but in the spirit of the game and fun, some good jokes and friendly boos are part of being the opposing fan.  Punches, getting your hat pissed on, verbal abuse... that's too much and that's what Philly is known for.

[KevShmev]

I doubt even Kev would question that the play should have been allowed to continue.

That's cute.

Yesterday, I thought blowing the play dead was fine.

After seeing the replay today several times from different angles, it's clear that Jack didn't have control until he rolled away from Lewis, so the play should not have been blown dead.  I guess we can just add that to the list of calls or non-calls that helped them.

Also, the handful of sports shows I DVR every day, I flipped through each of them earlier and every single one of them discussed the officiating and whether or not the Jags got robbed, so it is a story, not just a talking point by what NE fans would call salty haters.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I'm rooting for the Pats.  Id rather see greatness continue to be great than see the Eagles win (I'm a Giants fan).  Also, as a Giants fan, I would never set foot in that Eagles stadium for a game wearing Giants colors.  The Eagles fans are well known for being really bad towards visiting fans.  There is nothing enjoyable about going to an away game in that environment.  There's also nothing to be proud about acting that way.

And as I told Neon back when she was posting if she wanted to wear her Eagles jersey to a cowboys game here she'd probably have a great time. She'd take a good-natured ribbing, but that's the whole point. If anybody took it too far 80k Texans would be decidedly on her side. That's just courtesy.

Yea totally, that's how we treat our visiting fans at PSU football games.  No doubt there's always some asshole who goes too far, but in the spirit of the game and fun, some good jokes and friendly boos are part of being the opposing fan.  Punches, getting your hat pissed on, verbal abuse... that's too much and that's what Philly is known for.

City of Brotherly Love my ass.

[PowerSlave]

I missed what the Philly fans did to the Vikings bus. Can someone clue me in?

I missed it as well but just came across this (doesn't mention the bus though) https://www.yahoo.com/sports/vikings-fans-didnt-best-experience-eagles-game-180137998.html

I've heard things about those fans for many years. Some of the people in Cleveland are like that as well. That's why I'll never go up there to see a game. I live about 70 miles south of there, and I've never given much more than a passing thought. The times that I've been at Pittsburgh home games the people that were fans of the opposing team seemed to be treated fairly well. Unfortunately, some of the people in these cities seem to think that they need to act like European soccer hooligans.

[Adami]

There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?

Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.

That's why they'll probably lose the SB.  Nobody will be surprised about that either.  Just like nobody will be surprised about the Pats winning.  So, I'm not expecting any surprises.

Surprisingly, I'm not surprised by that (that you're not expecting any surprises).

You’re not surprised? I dunno man, I completely disagree.

[Cool Chris]

I've heard things about those fans for many years. Some of the people in Cleveland are like that as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMa20xXykI

Amazing that someone could chew out his own fans and put down his rival's fans in the same sentence.

[PowerSlave]

I've heard things about those fans for many years. Some of the people in Cleveland are like that as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMa20xXykI

Amazing that someone could chew out his own fans and put down his rival's fans in the same sentence.

 

I forgot about that. Definitely one of my favorite non-play football memories of all time!

[El Barto]

I've heard things about those fans for many years. Some of the people in Cleveland are like that as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMa20xXykI

Amazing that someone could chew out his own fans and put down his rival's fans in the same sentence.

Didn't even need to click he link to know what that was. I was talking bout Sam Wyche on Sunday. You can always tell a QB that had him as a coach by the way they execute play action. If the cameraman is 10 yards down field by the time he realized the QB still has the ball, he was probably coached by Sam at some point in his career.

[Stadler]

There was a sense of inevitability about the Pats win last night. As if no one could do anything about the rumbling juggernaut that is the Pats offence. I'm rooting for them to win now, especially after seeing the way Eagles fans sent off the Vikings team bus. Why aren't we talking about how disgraceful that is?

Because it’s Philly so nobody is surprised.

That's why they'll probably lose the SB.  Nobody will be surprised about that either.  Just like nobody will be surprised about the Pats winning.  So, I'm not expecting any surprises.

Surprisingly, I'm not surprised by that (that you're not expecting any surprises).

You’re not surprised? I dunno man, I completely disagree.

You're on a roll!  Contrarian! 

[Stadler]

I doubt even Kev would question that the play should have been allowed to continue.

That's cute.

Yesterday, I thought blowing the play dead was fine.

After seeing the replay today several times from different angles, it's clear that Jack didn't have control until he rolled away from Lewis, so the play should not have been blown dead.  I guess we can just add that to the list of calls or non-calls that helped them.

Also, the handful of sports shows I DVR every day, I flipped through each of them earlier and every single one of them discussed the officiating and whether or not the Jags got robbed, so it is a story, not just a talking point by what NE fans would call salty haters.

That talking heads are pulling controversial topics out of the drawer to bring some suspense to a game that - on paper anyway - has the potential to be pretty boring isn't that noteworthy.   I think here and elsewhere (thinking "P/R") every single one of us could identify at least one story that's getting a ton of air and print but is essentially a non-story. 

For me - and I don't mean this against you personally, Kev - the "officiating" story defies logic.   Why would the refs favor the Pats then the league drags their marquee player through the mud with a suspension?    Why make the "Deflategate" even a "-gate" to start with?    Anyone with any reason to find in the Pats favor could have done so on about five different topics (one being that once the balls were reinflated, Brady LIT UP the Colts, two being that it was plausible - even if improbable - that the air pressure was a natural phenomenon) but they didn't.

So is the "officiating story" essentially "the refs/the league favor the Pats, except when they don't which we ignore"?   

[Stadler]

I think a better indicator of the lack of officiating bias against the Pats is the roughing the passer calls they get (i.e. while Brady is on the field). 

You'd think that would be where the emotions come in (protect the GOAT!!).    In stats since 2009, Brady is 23 out of 43 QBs in the table (some  are now retired, like Romo and Manning) in roughing calls per game.   Not even in the TOP HALF.   Contrast that with the guy that whines on the weekly about all the times he's been "roughed" and there's no call (Camshaft Newton) who is eighth, and earns a "roughing the passer" penalty for his team at almost double the rate per game that Brady does. 

https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php

[TAC]

I think a better indicator of the lack of officiating bias against the Pats is the roughing the passer calls they get (i.e. while Brady is on the field). 

You'd think that would be where the emotions come in (protect the GOAT!!).    In stats since 2009, Brady is 23 out of 43 QBs in the table (some  are now retired, like Romo and Manning) in roughing calls per game.   Not even in the TOP HALF.   Contrast that with the guy that whines on the weekly about all the times he's been "roughed" and there's no call (Camshaft Newton) who is eighth, and earns a "roughing the passer" penalty for his team at almost double the rate per game that Brady does. 

https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php

Wow, that is quite interesting.

[El Barto]

As I said before, if you're convinced that the refs are all on the take, you're going to look for every possible example to support your claim. Examples to the contrary go unnoticed. People see what they want to see, and plenty want an excuse to diminish what the Patriots do.

[King Postwhore]